IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-06-13

MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, sorry, no other sane systems	00:00
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DocScrutinizer	awesome forum software replacing each "ass" by *** X-P http://www.foonews.info/de-sci-biologie/2851718-buntkuh.html	00:03
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nox-	hahaha	00:06
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timeless	hello world	00:12
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, that is cl***ic	00:12
* timeless is getting to love BlackBerry		00:12
lcuk	or in the terms of other software: that is clbuttic	00:12
lcuk	timeless, do you have a raised eyebrow?	00:12
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: makes for some h***le when reading	00:13
timeless	Unlike my n8, there's a Google Mobile App for BlackBerry (there used to be one for Symbian, but I think Google dropped it)	00:13
timeless	lcuk: why do you ask?	00:13
ShadowJK	there used to be one for j2me too	00:13
lcuk	did you not expect a polished experience?	00:13
timeless	lcuk: oh	00:14
timeless	i had no expectations to be honest	00:14
timeless	i mean, i had a basic hope "it has to be better than Symbian"	00:14
lcuk	good approach	00:14
* timeless didn't pay any attn to rim news until after joining		00:14
timeless	most things are much better here	00:15
timeless	unfortunately i've found a couple of apps which don't seem quite interested in dying and i'm not quite sure yet how to kill them	00:15
timeless	but i'm sure i'll figure it out	00:16
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timeless	oh, unlike my n8, the BlackBerry Torch has a green button that one can use for search in google apps...	00:18
* timeless chuckles @nokia's lack of a green button and how that totally ruined google's clever ui for voice search)		00:19
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kerio	green button?	00:23
kerio	buttons are so yesterday	00:23
SpeedEvil	Yeah - this is the interface of the future. He's writing an email. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYFDYX4i2EY	00:25
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timeless	grr	00:30
DocScrutinizer	LOL, maybe for mobile this interface is better? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcaslP9ODAk&feature=related	00:31
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timeless	anyone know why i'm getting a 1% fee while trying to send money from paypal[finland] to paypal[USA/Canada]?	00:31
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: the one you suggested is a bit hard to use e.g. in subway ;-)	00:31
timeless	kerio: i'll have to find a picture of the ui at some point, or take a photo, i might actually have a photo of it in my n8 gallery on facebook	00:32
timeless	if you haven't looked at the gallery, please do :)	00:32
DocScrutinizer	timeless: currency conversion?	00:32
timeless	doc: nope, i have currency in EUR and USD and my recipient accounts can all take USD and i set up the CA one to take EUR	00:32
timeless	paypal points me to https://www.paypal.com/fi/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees	00:33
timeless	but there's no sign of a 1% fee anywhere in it	00:33
DocScrutinizer	so put it away with tag "paypal sucks"	00:33
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: Even ideal for multitouch	00:33
DocScrutinizer	timeless: you know paypal can freeze your account any time, as long as they like, and reject all your complaints with "please sort it out with your neighbour"	00:35
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timeless	i know	00:35
timeless	so far i haven't had a problem w/ it	00:35
timeless	and i've managed >40k USD w/ it	00:35
timeless	(downpayment on my Finnish apartment)	00:35
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DocScrutinizer	well, you're lucky	00:37
DocScrutinizer	can happen to everyone	00:37
DocScrutinizer	and there's basically nuttin you can do against it	00:37
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DocScrutinizer	they can steal your money, ruin your business, and laugh at your face while doing that - any time they like	00:38
timeless	I'm not a business	00:38
timeless	Doing business using PayPal would be a different story	00:38
DocScrutinizer	the landlord of your appartment in Finland obviously been though	00:38
timeless	?	00:39
timeless	I own the property, surely that makes me my own landlord?	00:39
timeless	But I'd rather be screwed by PayPal than each of my Banks in each of the countries in which I've resided	00:39
DocScrutinizer	ok, whatever	00:39
timeless	At least PayPal speaks English	00:39
DocScrutinizer	sure	00:39
timeless	and is mostly honest and has reasonable documentation	00:39
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timeless	even its horror stories are public!	00:40
timeless	the same can not be said for my Finnish banks	00:40
DocScrutinizer	yeah	00:40
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timeless	which have been incredibly dishonest and whose dirty laundry is either private or enciphered in an indecipherable language for which no particularly good translation tools exist :)	00:40
DocScrutinizer	I'd not let my friggin paypal account grow to any 4 digit amount anyway	00:41
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timeless	the interest rate on a US based PayPal account (when established as a Money Market) was considerably better than anything I could get at a bank	00:43
DocScrutinizer	paypal is too big, with too few real human beings involved into the process, and not bound to any jurisdiction that would help me out when the IT goes mad	00:43
timeless	and its fee structure was much much much better, as was my abilitity to use it as a liquid account.	00:43
timeless	Heck, I could have gotten a credit card for it to enable me to draw its funds directly.	00:43
DocScrutinizer	that's all fine as long as it works. If something fails you're screwed	00:44
* timeless shrugs		00:45
timeless	placing all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea	00:45
DocScrutinizer	try to get back your 1%	00:45
timeless	my eggs are spread across a number of baskets	00:45
DocScrutinizer	try to get an explanation about it	00:45
timeless	yeah, i just set a "message" asking about it	00:45
DocScrutinizer	you'll get text templates forever	00:45
DocScrutinizer	"please read https://www.paypal.com/fi/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees"	00:46
timeless	we'll see	00:46
* timeless sighs		00:46
timeless	it turns out i was trying to confirm the wrong bank account :o	00:46
timeless	in other news	00:46
MohammadAG	KDE isn't as bad as I thought it'd be	00:49
timeless	MohammadAG: when was the last time you used it, what did you expect, why are you trying it, and how's it doing?	00:50
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MohammadAG	last time I used it, umm, not sure, kubuntu 9.10 or 8.10 I'd say	00:50
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MohammadAG	I expected a slow UI since I thought it was bloated	00:50
MohammadAG	I'm trying cause Unity isn't good as a desktop, at least for something that's not a netbook	00:51
ShadowJK	last major slowdown was KDE4, after that computers have gotten faster	00:51
MohammadAG	it's going to stay as my default desktop manager for quite a while	00:51
timeless	ShadowJK: heh	00:55
MohammadAG	this was the last one I tried http://www.ubuntugeek.com/images/kde4.png	00:55
MohammadAG	so yeah, I guess it was KDE 4	00:56
MohammadAG	I actually tried openSUSE as a kid and didn't know KDE/Gnome stuff, I remember I liked it	00:56
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Choom	you must be pretty young	00:57
DocScrutinizer	KDE4 been a rather nasty complete nuke of old KDE, then rebuild everything, which hasn't been done on same level of professionally like KDE1..3	00:57
Choom	last time I tried KDE was in 1999, when dragging windows around corrupted parts of the wallpaper	00:58
DocScrutinizer	KDE4 still sucks for me, compared to KDE3	00:59
ShadowJK	Choom, that sounds like KDE4.0 actually..	00:59
DocScrutinizer	kde4.5foo actually	00:59
fusi[n901]	whats the keyb shortcut to detach from a screen again?	00:59
ShadowJK	Also, scrolling in the konsole (terminal application) corrupted glyps all over the screen :-)	00:59
DocScrutinizer	err, 4.3.5	00:59
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DocScrutinizer	ooh, wasn't for me	01:00
SpeedEvil	fusi[n901]: ctrl-a d	01:00
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: 1999 sounds like KDE1.0 beta sth	01:01
DocScrutinizer	or like KDE4 yeah	01:01
ShadowJK	corruption when moving windows sounds like KDE4	01:01
ShadowJK	:P	01:01
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fusi[n901]	i guessed it but thankyou :)	01:02
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DocScrutinizer	KDE4.3 still occasionally corrupting my taskbar here, when switching windows	01:02
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DocScrutinizer	~lart KDE4	01:03
* infobot judo chops KDE4		01:03
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hiemanshu	KDE 4.3?	01:03
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: get the latest :P	01:03
DocScrutinizer	plasma, phonon, a pile of other useless crap	01:03
hiemanshu	well atleast 4.5	01:03
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hiemanshu	urgh, stupid mouse	01:04
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DocScrutinizer	funny enough I osted a shortstory ranting fairy tale about KDE, on another freenode chan just some 2h ago. Alas in German	01:07
DocScrutinizer	posted*	01:07
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: I'd have preferred to stay with KDE3 until they reach some state of maturity with that friggin kde4 effort	01:08
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: <nod>	01:08
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: KDE 4.6 is pretty mature	01:08
hiemanshu	much much better than 4.3	01:08
GAN900	Ubuntu is back to not resuming	01:09
GAN900	Kill me.	01:09
* hiemanshu puts a generade in GAN900's mouth, and hides behind a cover		01:09
hiemanshu	grenade*	01:09
DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: in quite some aspects this whole kde4 story reminds me on maemo->meego	01:11
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: same with GNOME 2.32 to 3	01:11
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GeneralAntilles	Didn't gerbick already leave once?	01:16
DocScrutinizer	?	01:17
* DocScrutinizer honestly considers switching to some LTS distro, SLES or whatever		01:20
DocScrutinizer	I don't need compiz, you know	01:20
DocScrutinizer	I want my uptime exceed one year	01:21
DocScrutinizer	shit has to work, not to deliver eyecandy	01:21
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: CentOS 5	01:22
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: KDE 3.5.4	01:22
DocScrutinizer	there's been a time ~2years ago where I was able to switch off the touchpad of this friggin laptop by clicking on a script icon I made. 3 years ago synaptics applet worked and disabled touchpad automatically when starting typing. Now it's fsckdup	01:24
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: We intend to support CentOS 5 until Mar 31st, 2014	01:24
hiemanshu	so another few years	01:24
DocScrutinizer	sounds like I'd love it then	01:25
DocScrutinizer	alas it means a complete "restart" on all my desktop environment	01:27
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: and there are qt 4.6/7 packages too (named differently so they dont interfere with default ones)	01:27
DocScrutinizer	sth I tried to avoid as much as possible, which gave me the uncomfortable situation I'm in now	01:27
DocScrutinizer	figure: there are custom kbd-shortcuts I defined on KDE2 when it been fresh	01:28
DocScrutinizer	I'm still using those	01:28
DocScrutinizer	it's not the 30min to install a fresh OS, it's the weeks to do all those little tweaks to your environment that drives me mad	01:30
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DocScrutinizer	I should've changed to centOS when they forced me to KDE4	01:30
hiemanshu	if you dont distro hop, that really shouldn't be an issue	01:30
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DocScrutinizer	as KDE4 did a decent job on nuking 80% of those tweaks and hacks	01:31
hiemanshu	well I built the packages for Fedora myself, and used KDE 3 for a while	01:31
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DocScrutinizer	I'm still unsure if khotkeys for example is a legacy from my kde3 install or meanwhile supported on kde4 as well	01:33
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FIQ	So I downloaded Maemo SDK the other day for compiling things for Maemo. I sometimes compiles things at desktop, and it usually weorks fine. Now, I tried to compile node.js for Maemo, with following error: sb_gcc_wrapper (g++): /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++: No such file or directory	02:01
FIQ	Am I doing something wrong?	02:01
FIQ	works*	02:01
ShadowJK	you don't usually compile .js	02:02
FIQ	It happens in the make step of it	02:02
FIQ	node.js is a framework...	02:02
FIQ	http://nodejs.org/	02:02
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ShadowJK	ah	02:02
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FIQ	Also, the SDK is shipping with some really outdated version of python (2.3.4), how come?	02:05
FIQ	Hm, weird	02:06
FIQ	Tried to tab into that, and the file for sure exists	02:07
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DocScrutinizer	I think there's sth weird about trying to compile .js, no matter what it actually is	02:09
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FIQ	>.>	02:09
FIQ	Did you check the link?	02:09
ShadowJK	Maybe he meant that hte software is called "dot js", not that he was trying to compile a file ending with ".js"	02:09
FIQ	Or what i told	02:09
FIQ	indeed	02:09
DocScrutinizer	mhm	02:10
FIQ	Anyway, the file indeed exists so why does make say that it doesn't?	02:10
DocScrutinizer	well, obviously in sb_gcc_wrapper there exists a problem accessing the file scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++ in the way it tries to do. So the error msg may be slightly off, that's not unseen	02:11
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FIQ	hmmm	02:14
FIQ	it seems to be a symlink	02:14
FIQ	to something non-existent	02:14
FIQ	that could be the problem as well	02:14
ShadowJK	Generally I have no clue what's going on when using scratchbox	02:14
DocScrutinizer	:nod: a stale symlink probably won't work for any purpose	02:15
FIQ	let's see	02:15
FIQ	the symlink point to a relative place that it takes for granted is in the PATH, but isn't	02:15
FIQ	i found a binary file in the same path for where it points to	02:15
FIQ	that's probably it, but... why does it even do that?	02:16
DocScrutinizer	what got a symlink to deal with $PATH?	02:16
FIQ	lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 Jan 11 2010 /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++ -> arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++	02:16
FIQ	probably that	02:16
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DocScrutinizer	resolving a symlink the OS doesn't look for $PATH	02:19
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DocScrutinizer	if there's no real file at the location the either relative or fqn symlink points to, then there happened sth odd either to the symlink on creation time, or to the dest file after symlink got created	02:21
FIQ	well, I've never used eihter scratchbox or maemo sdk before, the problem could be at my side	02:23
FIQ	but well, I followed the instructions per wiki page, so I don't know why it happens..	02:23
DocScrutinizer	probably sth during installation went wrong	02:23
FIQ	hmm	02:25
FIQ	now I actually tried running it from command line just to see	02:25
DocScrutinizer	jr@halley:~> ll /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++	02:25
FIQ	then it seems to have worked	02:25
DocScrutinizer	lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 16. Mai 2010 /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++ -> arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++	02:25
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FIQ	so I probably just mis-interpreted the point	02:26
FIQ	So, it's not the problem, it's just the make that fail for some unknown reason	02:27
DocScrutinizer	jr@halley:~> ll /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++	02:27
DocScrutinizer	-rwxr-xr-x 2 root root 181088 11. Jan 2010 /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++	02:27
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FIQ	indeed it looks the same here	02:28
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DocScrutinizer	pfrrrt /scratchbox/compilers/bin/sb_gcc_wrapper is an ELF	02:30
DocScrutinizer	NFC sorry	02:31
DocScrutinizer	I guess it's SB's way to tell you "don't try to compile javascript" or whatever ;-)	02:32
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DocScrutinizer	(no, I didn't check that link)	02:32
DocScrutinizer	I suggest a test with "hello world"	02:32
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DocScrutinizer	I vaguely recall somebody trying to build something on buildhost that was like converting python script to c to machine code using something written in python. It failed, and I wasn't amazed it did	02:35
DocScrutinizer	crosscompiling is a bit special sometimes	02:36
FIQ	it's not JS, it's a JS engine ;_;	02:36
FIQ	whatever	02:36
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DocScrutinizer	what's the source language?	02:37
FIQ	C++	02:38
DocScrutinizer	hmm, should work	02:38
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DocScrutinizer	as mentioned above, make sure the environment is basically functional, by testing a "hello world" build	02:39
DocScrutinizer	then maybe ask for help of somebody feeling "at home" in SB, like MohammadAG ;-D	02:40
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FIQ	tried to compile hello world in C++, that worked	02:41
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DocScrutinizer	hmm	02:47
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DocScrutinizer	tried strace'ing this friggin wrapper?	02:49
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DocScrutinizer	wait, isn't SB compiler running in a changeroot? so maybe there's really no file like /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++	02:51
FIQ\|n900	well, I've never used SB or maemo SDK before, so... well, I don't know	02:52
DocScrutinizer	NFC why this wouldn't show up when compiling "hello world"	02:52
DocScrutinizer	you "logged in" to SB?	02:53
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FIQ\|n900	I've been logged into it all the time	02:53
DocScrutinizer	sorry, I give up	02:54
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: ping	02:54
DocScrutinizer	(SB noob here too)	02:54
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FIQ\|n900	heh	02:55
DocScrutinizer	I even had to look for my post-it note where I noted how to log in to SB	02:56
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DocScrutinizer	as you can see from my ls I posted above, it's been >12months since I last touched that beast	02:56
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flailingmonkey	what gets used for meego development, in place of scratchbox?	03:01
DocScrutinizer	hey flailingmonkey - long time no post from you :-)	03:03
merlin1991	so FIQ\|n900 you did /scractchbox/login before trying the compile?	03:03
FIQ\|n900	yes	03:03
merlin1991	flailingmonkey: meego sdk aka qt-creator	03:03
FIQ\|n900	as it would be compiled to my own system in other cases :p	03:03
merlin1991	ofc :D	03:03
FIQ\|n900	(if i don't do something very scary)	03:04
DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: I think meego is using OBS which is some suse build thing. for buildserver, nfi about local build	03:04
merlin1991	sb does the scary stuff for you, wich is why it's scray ;)	03:04
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: hey, yeah :) school took over	03:04
MohammadAG	sb > madde	03:04
FIQ\|n900	oh hai MohammadAG	03:04
MohammadAG	hai	03:05
FIQ\|n900	<FIQ> So I downloaded Maemo SDK the other day for compiling things for Maemo. I sometimes compiles things at desktop, and it usually weorks fine. Now, I tried to compile node.js for Maemo, with following error: sb_gcc_wrapper (g++): /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++: No such file or directory	03:05
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: oh right, OBS. I just hope its a major improvement from SB	03:05
MohammadAG	it's not imo	03:05
MohammadAG	FIQ\|n900, sudo /etc/init.d/scratchbox-core start	03:06
FIQ\|n900	it is started	03:06
FIQ\|n900	i'm logged into scratchbox and all	03:06
MohammadAG	doesn't matter, I have to do that even if login works	03:06
flailingmonkey	ease of development (as in not having to spend hours to get the tools just working at all) is always a huge influencer for attracting devs. too bad it seems to be very difficult to do :p	03:07
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: how would you tell you did?	03:07
MohammadAG	I installed sb when I was a noob	03:07
MohammadAG	I couldn't install OBS, instructions are a nightmare	03:07
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: is there some `mount` or other cmd showing of init.d/sb-core been started?	03:07
FIQ\|n900	uh, wait a minute, i don't even have a scratchbox-core daemon there (or in where my architecture actually places daemons as well)	03:08
MohammadAG	sbctl or something	03:08
MohammadAG	on the N900 so not sure what it's called	03:08
MohammadAG	but it's on the host system	03:08
MohammadAG	sbox_ctrl I think	03:08
DocScrutinizer	it's generally better to diagnose first, rather than to suggest fixes	03:09
DocScrutinizer	:-)	03:09
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FIQ\|n900	I'm using arch, in which daemons is placed in /etc/rc.d but i don't have any SB core there	03:09
DocScrutinizer	well, maybe that's first trail of the bugger ;-)	03:10
merlin1991	FIQ\|n900: only because arch normally places stuff there, are you sure sb installer didn't put it elsewhere? :D	03:10
DocScrutinizer	I guess SB isn't meant to get installed on arch	03:10
MohammadAG	not sure about arch, I used debs	03:10
DocScrutinizer	merlin1991: indeed	03:10
merlin1991	afaik SB is for "debian based systems"	03:10
FIQ\|n900	there is SB for arch in repositories	03:10
DocScrutinizer	nfc	03:11
DocScrutinizer	I'm the noob here :-P	03:11
FIQ\|n900	but I just used the shellscript to make sure it installed something that worked... but it didn't, i guess	03:11
merlin1991	FIQ\|n900:	03:11
merlin1991	sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start	03:11
merlin1991	according to http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Starting_Scratchbox_on_non-Debian_based_systems	03:12
Hurrian	arch? /etc/rc.d/	03:12
FIQ\|n900	that worked	03:12
FIQ\|n900	Hurrian, yeah, i looked there, no scratchbox_ctrl	03:12
FIQ\|n900	but merlin1991s thing worked	03:13
DocScrutinizer	less /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl for LULZ	03:13
* merlin1991 would like to, but can't		03:13
merlin1991	stupid us based supplier for the new motherboard	03:13
DocScrutinizer	I suggested `mount` for a reason	03:14
FIQ\|n900	hm, nope, still failing	03:15
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DocScrutinizer	if sb_ctl start been executed, there should be quite a number of unique bindmounts	03:15
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DocScrutinizer	FIQ\|n900: do you see those SB bindmounts in your `mount` output - on host PC, not in SB terminal	03:17
FIQ\|n900	nope, it didn't seem to change anything	03:18
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	03:18
DocScrutinizer	scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl should do those bindmounts - of course you need to run it outside of SB, and prior to login	03:19
DocScrutinizer	the bindmounts can't work from inside SB, they probably also will fail when not run as root	03:20
DocScrutinizer	that's why <merlin1991> sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start	03:21
FIQ\|n900	that's what i did, outside scratchbox	03:21
merlin1991	face it, sb for maemo isn't meant for arch :D	03:22
DocScrutinizer	and no new mounted "volumes" when you issue a `mount` right after that?	03:22
DocScrutinizer	no errors thrown?	03:23
DocScrutinizer	just nuttin sounds a bit odd	03:23
FIQ\|n900	hm	03:24
DocScrutinizer	hehe	03:24
FIQ\|n900	there are new mountpoints there	03:24
DocScrutinizer	aaaah	03:24
FIQ\|n900	(i runned df -h before and it didn't show anything more than the usual)	03:24
DocScrutinizer	df isn't supposed to show bindmounts?	03:25
* FIQ\|n900 dunno		03:25
merlin1991	yes	03:25
FIQ\|n900	But well, they're mounted	03:25
DocScrutinizer	that'S why I suggested `mount`	03:25
merlin1991	df show free disk space	03:25
merlin1991	bindmounts have no affect on space	03:25
FIQ\|n900	Indeed	03:25
FIQ\|n900	I'm tired (as stated before), i guess	03:26
FIQ\|n900	Anyway, so there are bindmounts	03:26
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DocScrutinizer	so log in	03:26
merlin1991	MohammadAG: could you pastebin something like `mount \| grep scratchbox` so FIQ can compare?	03:27
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FIQ\|n900	Still, it fails with the compile because of the same as before	03:28
DocScrutinizer	http://paste.debian.net/119659/	03:28
merlin1991	are you in the x86 or the fremantle target?	03:28
merlin1991	also did you install the nokia binaries?	03:28
FIQ\|n900	http://paste.pocoo.org/show/405336	03:29
FIQ\|n900	I did	03:29
FIQ\|n900	@ merlin1991	03:29
FIQ\|n900	and, i'm in FREMANTLE_ARMEL	03:29
* merlin1991 is out of ideas		03:30
FIQ\|n900	hmm	03:31
FIQ\|n900	why do DocScrutinizer have 2 sets of bindmounts, one for root, one for normal user, and i just one?	03:31
FIQ\|n900	Pretty sure that's irrelevant, just wondering	03:31
DocScrutinizer	I was just wondering as well	03:31
DocScrutinizer	o.O	03:32
merlin1991	I bet because the sb debian installer runs it as a service under root, and on logon runs the script again for the user	03:32
DocScrutinizer	looks like some weird bug in `mount`	03:32
DocScrutinizer	I didn't log in	03:32
DocScrutinizer	see my pastebin	03:32
merlin1991	I think you did	03:32
merlin1991	on logon as in log into user	03:33
merlin1991	system user, not sb user	03:33
DocScrutinizer	http://paste.debian.net/119660/	03:35
FIQ\|n900	Oh, by the way, why is an outdated version of Python provided in the SDK?	03:36
FIQ\|n900	python 2.3.4	03:36
FIQ\|n900	hmm	03:37
FIQ\|n900	i wonder	03:37
DocScrutinizer	aaah, SB users root and jr	03:38
DocScrutinizer	yeah	03:38
DocScrutinizer	and user maybe as well	03:38
FIQ\|n900	maybe I should try to install the scratch provided in AUR	03:38
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FIQ\|n900	s/scratch/scratchbox/	03:38
infobot	FIQ\|n900 meant: maybe I should try to install the scratchbox provided in AUR	03:38
FIQ\|n900	and reinstall maemo SDK	03:38
FIQ\|n900	but i'm pretty sure nothing will improve tbh	03:38
DocScrutinizer	FIQ\|n900: I created a user in SB, called jr	03:39
DocScrutinizer	you don't need to	03:39
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DocScrutinizer	FIQ\|n900: (python) I think python is the version available when maemo SB been "built" - you could update it from inside SB	03:41
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DocScrutinizer	FIQ\|n900: I meanwhile checked that nodejs thing's page, sounds nice	03:46
DocScrutinizer	though I still fail to figure a real usecase for it on N900 ;-)	03:47
FIQ\|n900	it's not the end of the world if i don't manage to get it to compile... but as far as i see, it seems that the wrapper just doesn't work - and that it will give other things problems as well	03:51
FIQ\|n900	but i want it!	03:52
flailingmonkey	nodejs is nice for doing things through callbacks rather than threads just sitting and waiting around, "evented I/O"	03:54
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fusi[n901]	i freaking love my n900	04:01
user0	i need one badly	04:01
fusi[n901]	D:	04:02
user0	first one got stolen	04:02
fusi[n901]	theyre really good :p	04:02
fusi[n901]	heh	04:02
user0	indeed	04:02
fusi[n901]	oh nhoes	04:02
fusi[n901]	that sucks dood	04:02
fusi[n901]	bastards	04:03
user0	:)	04:03
nox-	:(	04:03
fusi[n901]	gonna b hard to get onethese day	04:03
fusi[n901]	i only found mine thru clearance sale on theorder.co.uk	04:03
user0	i've found a few used ones	04:03
fusi[n901]	300 reddies tho	04:04
user0	all had problems, still searching for one	04:04
fusi[n901]	D:	04:04
flailingmonkey	amazon has supply of them	04:04
fusi[n901]	$$$$	04:04
fusi[n901]	oh u mean in us	04:04
user0	at what price ?	04:04
fusi[n901]	where u at user0	04:04
fusi[n901]	usa?	04:04
fusi[n901]	ah	04:05
fusi[n901]	mm	04:05
fusi[n901]	is price a factor	04:06
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user0	yes ofcourse	04:06
fusi[n901]	you could always steal one..	04:06
user0	outside the us, but shipping shouldnt cost much	04:06
fusi[n901]	try looking on theorder.co.uk	04:07
fusi[n901]	they might still have some	04:07
fusi[n901]	ur in the eu ye so they will prolly ship	04:07
fusi[n901]	i must go smoke this thing now	04:07
fusi[n901]	tally bai and gl o/ x	04:08
flailingmonkey	it was listed at $400 USD	04:10
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DocScrutinizer	>>Some of the Nokia applications shipped with the final SDK use a hard coded path for user home directory which presents a problem since the default username on the device differs from the username on the developer’s machine.<< (from http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Upgrading_from_Maemo_5_Beta2_SDK )	04:12
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* DocScrutinizer just wonders if this might have made some devels @ Nokia start to think about their cncept		04:12
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DocScrutinizer	hardcoded usernames, omfg	04:13
DocScrutinizer	maybe we could also get hardcoded allowable serial # of device?	04:14
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DocScrutinizer	hardcoded IMEI maybe, hardcoded kbd layout - there are lots of nice things you could hardcode	04:14
FIQ\|n900	hardcoded IMEI :D	04:17
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DocScrutinizer	hey, you made me touch that whole stuff again, just to see how hard it can get to get sth running	04:42
DocScrutinizer	just about to download the nokia blobs	04:43
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flailingmonkey	nice	04:49
flailingmonkey	good luck to you with that DocScrutinizer :p	04:49
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DocScrutinizer	hehe	04:54
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DocScrutinizer	wondering what to start to put this Xephyr thing to some life and purpose	04:58
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DocScrutinizer	meh, this took some time to set up the friggin localizations	05:06
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DocScrutinizer	YEEEEHAAAAAAA!!!! tracker eating my laptop CPU :-P I FEEL AT HOME X-P	05:13
DocScrutinizer	trackerd[12713]: GLIB CRITICAL ** Tracker - Could not open directory 'file:///home/jr/MyDocs/.camera': No such file or directory	05:14
DocScrutinizer	Initializing tracker-extract...	05:14
DocScrutinizer	damn, that's indeed amazing, running maemo in Xephyr - should've done that before ;-P	05:15
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DocScrutinizer	wdgt_va_24h_time X-P	05:20
DocScrutinizer	for that I had to go thru 20min of localization installs? :-D	05:21
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Hurrian	docscrutinizer, using cordia?	05:36
DocScrutinizer	what's cordia?	05:36
DocScrutinizer	duh, that hildon-on-meego thing?	05:36
Hurrian	yeah	05:37
DocScrutinizer	nah, running "maemo" in Xephyr/SB on my laptop	05:37
DocScrutinizer	just wondering why there's "not enough free memory to install application" xchat, in HAM	05:38
DocScrutinizer	I guess /opt isn't properly linked	05:38
Hurrian	all the localization strings were fine when i installed Maemo 5 Scratchbox Target	05:38
DocScrutinizer	or the x86 pkg of xchat not properly optified, or whatever	05:38
Hurrian	did you separate usr or home?	05:39
Hurrian	scratchbox is bitchy, had to redo my system for it	05:39
DocScrutinizer	switching system lang to Deutsch gave me all the nice wdgt_foo_bar labels everywhere	05:39
DocScrutinizer	I didn't separate anything yet, just an af-sb-init start or what it's called	05:40
DocScrutinizer	ran*	05:40
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DocScrutinizer	I should try to install CSSU ;-P	05:41
DocScrutinizer	ctl-shift-X doesn't work for xterm	05:41
DocScrutinizer	as Xephyr grabs ctrl-shift :-P	05:42
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DocScrutinizer	grrrr	06:20
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DocScrutinizer	impossible to "enter" on xchat in SB	06:24
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jr_	hdskgjhlaggdsa	06:36
psycho_oreos	no	06:36
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jr_	wow	06:36
jr_	found out FN+carriage-return-key on laptop allows to enter a "ENTER" on SB	06:37
jr_	:-P	06:37
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jr_	kinda weird to run maemo-xchat under maemo under qemu under SB under linux on X86	06:38
jr_	btw, as "we" wondered recently: seems F4 is the magic menu key, alas completely useless for M5 as there's no way whatsoever to move to and click a particular menu entry except for mouse/touchscreen of course again	06:41
jr_	F9 closes apps	06:41
jr_	maybe at least that could be kinda useful for kbd	06:42
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DocScrutinizer	time for 12648430 ☕	06:43
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DocScrutinizer	I'd say hildon gtk is missing accelerator keys as badly as new Qt does	06:45
DocScrutinizer	well, I have to admit I not even tried if maybe it has accel keys (the _u_nderlined ones) in menus, just that they aren't shown. might still react on proper key in a menu	06:47
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jr_	nah, in menu of e.g settings you're stuck when your touchpanel is broken	06:50
jr_	no select, not even escape	06:50
jr_	yawn	06:51
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Termana	good morning	08:25
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DocScrutinizer	yo Termana	08:35
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Shoruken	yo	08:39
SpeedEvil	yo	08:40
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Shoruken	SpeedEvil: YOU WAS BORN.	08:44
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Shoruken	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Speedevil	08:45
Shoruken	you've also a typoe "recsue"	08:45
SpeedEvil	No I diddn't.	08:46
FIQ	Huh, I was able to get it to compile manually through supplying the command that make runs to compile a C++ manually	08:50
FIQ	s/it/a file/	08:50
infobot	FIQ meant: Huh, I was able to get a file to compile manually through supplying the command that make runs to compile a C++ manually	08:50
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FIQ\|n900	hm, oh, it didn't work	08:57
FIQ\|n900	it just didn't error for some reason	08:57
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RST38h	Yaaahooo!	09:57
RST38h	fMSX works on Android!	09:57
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timeless	any finns awake?	10:29
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mece	timeless, \o	10:34
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timeless	mece: do you count?	10:35
kirma	any experience on warranty repair of broken N900 USB connector lately?	10:36
mece	timeless, Well, I was born in Finland, lived 32.5 of my 33 years in Finland, I work in finland, I own two buildings in finland, my two cars are registered in finland, both my parents, grand parents and great grand parents are finns, so yeah. I believe I count.	10:37
mece	kirma, where do you live?	10:37
kirma	for the first time a bartender offered me to recharge my phone directly with microUSB charger on friday. well, that was the last time too, as she attempted to blindly ram the cable in place. after that night, I haven't been able to recharge, and before that I probably had thousand flawless recharge plug/unplug cycles	10:38
kirma	mece: helsinki capital area	10:38
mece	kirma, nokia care should take care of that	10:38
timeless	mece: ok :)	10:38
mece	timeless, :)	10:38
kirma	I've heard at least somewhere they have been offering E7/N8 as a replacement	10:39
kirma	lately	10:39
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mece	kirma, they can just fix the N900. It took 3 hours to get mine fixed at a nok care centre here in Turku	10:39
kirma	mece: hmmh. sounds surprisingly good	10:40
cehteh	heh .. e7/n8 as replacement for the n900?	10:40
mece	kirma, well that was here..	10:40
* cehteh boggles		10:40
mece	kirma, I knew which special magical place to go to :)	10:40
* joga_ also finn and awake		10:40
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kirma	looking at the service manual I'd consider that they have to have much more replacement parts than just a bit of resoldering if they actually follow the procedures of the service manual	10:40
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mece	timeless, so what did you need a finn for?	10:40
timeless	i got a letter from kela	10:41
timeless	in finnish	10:41
joga	uh oh	10:41
timeless	with instructions to call their finnish line service	10:41
timeless	they didn't offer me the english phone number...	10:41
mece	timeless, ow..	10:41
timeless	they're ... helpful..	10:41
cehteh	kirma: resoldering will most often not do that .. usually it comes off with the pads	10:41
Hurrian	kirma, that would be the screws, and bubble matrix	10:41
cehteh	so they have to swap the mainboard	10:41
mece	cehteh, they soldered mine	10:41
cehteh	well sometimes soldering may work of course	10:42
joga	timeless: try these http://kela.fi/in/internet/english.nsf/NET/220708093611HS?OpenDocument	10:42
kirma	well, even soldering is fine if it works.	10:42
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cehteh	well if the pads are half off then resoldering wont be a permanent fix	10:43
kirma	the connector itself doesn't seem to be badly hit on basis of looking it from outside, but sufficiently not to recharge any more :I	10:43
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kirma	anyway, I bet these bars kill N900s en masse if they continue that practice	10:44
mece	kirma, that's exactly what I had. It looke dfine, perhaps a little wiggly, but it didn't charge	10:44
RST38h	http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2002854/A-Gay-Girl-Damascus-Tom-MacMaster-40-blogger-Amina-Arraf.html?ito=feeds-newsxml	10:45
kirma	well, I "recharged" the phone at two bars to be exact. first bruuveri, then home (didn't charge any more properly according to logs) and then gallows bird pub. both had recently started offering microusb... "treatment"	10:45
kirma	and both handled the phone roughly, and both have quite a bit of n900 owners visiting. better be cautious!	10:45
kirma	I mean, relatively popular pubs on the linux + good beer demographic here	10:47
flailingmonkey	seems like you need microusb male to microusb female cable :p so they can roughly handle the female end of the cable	10:50
flailingmonkey	but it would look very silly	10:50
kirma	the supplied nokia adapter cable has been this far a great protection for microusb connector damage... and only now I really learned that.	10:53
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ruskie	why one would let other people plug an unknown charger into their phone I probably will never understand	10:56
kirma	I can pretty safely assume that at least the round-plug chargers around here are original nokia chargers	10:57
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kirma	worst that can happen is awfully slow charge rate	10:57
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ruskie	also do people really need to keep recharging their devices so often???	10:58
kirma	because n900 eats plenty of battery, especially when it's used a lot all the time? :I	10:58
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ruskie	I guess I just don't get the use it all the time thing...	10:59
ruskie	I hardly touch it	10:59
kirma	beer on one hand, n900 on another, irc+ssh/browser/chat/calling going on for hours, tends to eat battery	11:00
ruskie	I don't get it... I thought the whole point of going to a pub was to socialise in real life... not chat around/call people...	11:01
kirma	doesn't really prevent socializing with folks on the table at the same time	11:01
kirma	rather, "friends seem to be on bar X, maybe we should head there" or "had to check how this factoid of a beer rant actually is, looked up wikipedia"	11:03
ruskie	hehe	11:03
mece	kirma no shit. Also one has to read things on intertubes to keep fresh topics coming :D	11:05
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kirma	mece: yep, one has to know hourly status of which parties are trying to form the government now ;)	11:09
flailingmonkey	g'night	11:11
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Hurrian	oh, people still burn through the n900's battery?	11:12
Hurrian	under heavy load, i get it to use 1.2%/minute	11:13
timeless	> Olet voinut saada postitse myös kirjeen, joka ei valitettavasti näy asiointipalvelussa.	11:14
timeless	gr	11:14
cehteh	Hurrian: yes thats possible	11:14
Hurrian	and on some days, i expect the thing to burst into flames	11:14
Hurrian	it just gets really really hot around the antennas	11:15
timeless	so. um	11:15
* timeless curses kela for being insane		11:15
timeless	halp?	11:15
timeless	kela is being stupid	11:15
jaska	yes.. kela is silly	11:15
timeless	they made me waste a secure token	11:15
timeless	how do i fill out form y 39 electronically?	11:16
jaska	i had to fight with kela and various other instances for a few years when i was sick	11:16
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jaska	it didnt work when you filled it online?	11:17
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timeless	i can't figure out where to fill it out online	11:19
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jaska	hmm	11:21
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jaska	are you still logged in?	11:21
jaska	stupid system wont let me see the actual user pages unless i use up one of my bank codes :)	11:22
jaska	ahh, there is a test mode	11:22
timeless	there is?	11:24
timeless	yeah i'm still logged in, i think	11:24
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timeless	so...	11:24
jaska	looking around..	11:25
timeless	i think i didn't need to burn a secure token to do this	11:25
timeless	i think the y 39 pdf is boobie trapped with a submission procedure	11:25
timeless	> 5. Pensioners moving abroad permanently	11:25
timeless	does that mean "if you are retired"?	11:26
jaska	yes	11:26
timeless	i'm not retired... but some day i hope to be	11:26
timeless	no	11:26
jaska	what language is your UI in?	11:26
timeless	this form is not properly boobie trapped	11:26
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timeless	it's just stupid	11:26
timeless	ok, so how the ** does one submit this form to these a holes?	11:27
timeless	or should i say monkeys?	11:27
jaska	is your web ui english or finnish.. the demo only has finnish	11:27
timeless	web ui is um	11:27
* timeless ponders		11:27
timeless	finnish	11:27
timeless	they probably have swedish too	11:27
jaska	"hakemus ja ilmoitus"	11:28
timeless	but yeah, no finnish	11:28
timeless	err no engilsh	11:28
jaska	that opens: "oikeus suomen sosiaaliturvaan"	11:28
timeless	"Hakemus tai ilmoitus" ?	11:28
jaska	yheah	11:28
timeless	ok.. now what	11:28
jaska	do you get a dialogueish page with "keskeyta" "jatka"?	11:29
timeless	i only clicked on "Hakemus tai ilmoitus"	11:29
jaska	does it open a "submenu" tree under it	11:29
timeless	do you want me to click jaska jaska jaska "Oikeus Suomen sosiaaliturvaan"?	11:29
jaska	holdon	11:29
timeless	yeah i have ~15 items under it	11:29
jaska	ok, the bottom one is "oikeus suomen sosiaaliturvaan"	11:30
timeless	btw if you see 'jaska', it means i did '<ctrl>-<tab>' and the irc client heard it..	11:30
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jaska	heh	11:30
timeless	ok, i clicked that	11:30
jaska	you get a page with "keskeyta" "jatka"?	11:30
timeless	yes	11:31
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jaska	click jatka	11:31
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jaska	i think ill take this to pm.. not wanting to flood here	11:32
timeless	ok	11:32
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scoobertron	I have been a dumbass and edited my sudoers file. Now I can't get root access. Any idea how to fix it? (without ssh server installed)	11:39
DocScrutinizer51	tzzz, touchscreen click been dead until I closed mediaplayer	11:40
DocScrutinizer51	reopened MP and started/stopped playback... click OK	11:40
DocScrutinizer51	all hail to PA I'd say	11:41
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ruskie	scoobertron, reinstall the root sh stuff from the app manager?	11:47
scoobertron	app manager doesn't work because it uses sudoers to get root access	11:50
mgedmin	well, can you run anything as root? is /etc/sudoers empty now, or what?	11:53
mgedmin	worst case, reflash the rootfs	11:53
mgedmin	I wonder if there are any known unpatched local root exploits in that kernel version	11:53
robbiethe1st	You don't have backupmenu, do you?	11:55
jaska	phew	11:55
cehteh	ssh installed?	11:55
DocScrutinizer	nonsense, enable R&D mode	11:56
* timeless thanks mece and jaska for their help w/ kela		11:56
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robbiethe1st	R&D mode would work?	11:56
DocScrutinizer	it's supposed to work, yes	11:56
robbiethe1st	it doesn't rely on sudoers?	11:56
DocScrutinizer	not afaik	11:57
robbiethe1st	hm...	11:57
robbiethe1st	cool	11:57
cehteh	well if sshd is running that might be easier :P	11:57
scoobertron	mgedmin: No, I added a line without realising it superceded all the lines above it.	11:57
DocScrutinizer	indeed	11:57
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mgedmin	what was the line?	11:57
DocScrutinizer	ljdhjkdxdhnkdh?	11:58
scoobertron	mgedmin: iirc user ALL = ALL	11:58
DocScrutinizer	:-P	11:58
scoobertron	this was before I realised I didn't have a password	11:58
mgedmin	you can create a password	11:58
mgedmin	or maybe not	11:58
DocScrutinizer	you ran update-sudoers?	11:58
scoobertron	no, edited it with visudo	11:58
DocScrutinizer	you rebooted?	11:59
scoobertron	passwd told me I couldn't change the user password	11:59
scoobertron	I don't think I rebooted	11:59
DocScrutinizer	so run update-sudoers now	11:59
mgedmin	I'm pretty sure you need to be root to do that :/	12:00
DocScrutinizer	basically you're not supposed to edit etc/sudoers	12:00
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: I'm pretty sure a boot does as well	12:00
DocScrutinizer	;-D	12:00
mgedmin	that would solve everything	12:00
mgedmin	grep sudo /etc/event.d/* finds nothing	12:01
mgedmin	how would update-sudoers be run during boot?	12:01
scoobertron	DocScrutinizer: yeah, I saw the wiki afterwards. I feel like such a dumbass. I just thought I would share my embarressment with all the good folks at #maemo before reflashing.	12:01
DocScrutinizer	nevertheless update-sudoers is run at boot time for all I know	12:01
scoobertron	and update-sudoers would fix it?	12:01
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: no idea, but I'm sure it's run at boottime, rather sure	12:02
DocScrutinizer	scoobertron: depends	12:02
DocScrutinizer	could, without waranty	12:02
mgedmin	update-sudoers will regenerate a new /etc/sudoers by concatenating all the files in /etc/sudoers.d/	12:02
DocScrutinizer	if not, you still can enable R&D mode	12:02
mgedmin	if you haven't modified those, you will get a sudoers file that was exactly as it was before you ran visudo	12:02
mgedmin	I'm pretty sure R&D mode won't help... you run sudo gainroot, and the gainroot script checks for R&D before giving you a shell	12:03
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: I heard it somehow appends some part of the original sudoers file	12:03
mgedmin	if you can't use sudo, you won't get as far as the script checking for the mode	12:03
DocScrutinizer	or prepends	12:03
scoobertron	DocScrutinizer: rebooted but sudo gainroot still asked for a password	12:03
robbiethe1st	Try R&D mode	12:04
mgedmin	hmm, you could be right	12:04
scoobertron	ok, gonna check the wiki to find out how. Ill check back later. Thanks for your help	12:04
mgedmin	there are a bunch of ### Automatically added by update-sudoers start/end ### lines in /etc/sudoers	12:04
mgedmin	could be update-sudoers strips everything between them but keeps everything outside	12:04
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lardman	morning	12:05
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: yep	12:05
DocScrutinizer	sth like that	12:05
DocScrutinizer	real mess	12:05
RST38h	Dear God! Please, find the person responsible for using OpenAL as the audio API in the Android NDK and punish him. With extremeprejudice.	12:05
robbiethe1st	But I thought everyone loved OpenAL?	12:06
lardman	RST38h: does it mean the driver can be better hidden?	12:06
lardman	I'm sure I've read a page somewhere justifying or at least giving some hints as to why these odd components were used	12:07
lardman	rild for the modem too iirc	12:07
DocScrutinizer	sure, there's an excuse for every madness in andridiot	12:08
DocScrutinizer	scoobertron: I guess you're really out of luck for today	12:09
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DocScrutinizer	maybe update-sudoers fixed HAM, but I doubt it	12:09
DocScrutinizer	sudo is pretty central	12:10
scoobertron	DocScrutinizer: its my own fault. and it won't be my first reflash due entirely to my own stupidity. I guess this is what happens when you put a terminal on a phone	12:10
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DocScrutinizer	hehe	12:11
lardman	anyone know of an IRC client that can remember when your highlights occurred and e.g. tell you the times?	12:11
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DocScrutinizer	scoobertron: you said you got sshd but no pw?	12:11
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scoobertron	I have ssh client but not server	12:12
DocScrutinizer	aah	12:12
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DocScrutinizer	well, I'm out of ideas, which OTOH makes me a lil bit happy about the whole issue ;-)	12:15
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scoobertron	DocScrutinizer: there isn't anything stupid like a secret root password so I could just use su	12:16
DocScrutinizer	so far I never really thought how to break the system permissions, just added my root password for sudo gainroot and thought "better", but didn't really evaluate security	12:17
DocScrutinizer	scoobertron: nope	12:17
DocScrutinizer	except R&D mode, but if mgedmin is right it also won't work	12:17
mgedmin	secret root used to exist in older firmware versions (password: rootme, iirc)	12:18
mgedmin	but now it's gone	12:18
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DocScrutinizer	o.O	12:18
mgedmin	(older, as in the times of nokia 770s)	12:19
DocScrutinizer	where from came THAT? passwd?	12:19
scoobertron	DocScrutinizer: yeah, I wondered about r&d being a lost hope. I might just reflash, its not a huge deal.	12:20
DocScrutinizer	or did they really hardcode it into some binary?	12:20
DocScrutinizer	well, before reflashing, it's a small effort to enable R&D	12:21
DocScrutinizer	though mgedmin has sound arguments why it can't work	12:22
scoobertron	DocScrutinizer: that's true, except I just found out that the flasher doesn't work with 64bit linux, so I gotta go plug it into my server.	12:22
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DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: I can't find a check for R&D in gainroot script, so it has to be hardcoded to sudo, or it lives somewhere else	12:25
mgedmin	MODE=`$CALTOOL --get-rd-mode`	12:25
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mgedmin	if [ x$MODE = xenabled ]	12:26
DocScrutinizer	o.O	12:26
mgedmin	...	12:26
DocScrutinizer	not here	12:26
mgedmin	if you've got easyroot installed, it replaces the original gainroot with its own version	12:26
mgedmin	you can find the original in /usr/sbin/gainroot.old	12:26
DocScrutinizer	duh	12:26
DocScrutinizer	what's easyroot doing then	12:26
mgedmin	cat /usr/sbin/gainroot and see for yourself	12:27
DocScrutinizer	I might have it, but never wrapped my head around it	12:27
mgedmin	basically it runs /bin/sh	12:27
DocScrutinizer	darn, that's what I did	12:27
mece	people with the (tester) tag on maemo, are they the special magical testers whose votes are more valuable?	12:27
DocScrutinizer	less `which gainroot`	12:27
mgedmin	the whole magic is in the sudoers file which lets you run /usr/sbin/gainroot with no password	12:28
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mgedmin	the original gainroot is then additionally protected by the R&D mode check	12:28
mgedmin	the modified one just gives you a root shell no questions asked	12:28
DocScrutinizer	still I wonder what's easyroot	12:28
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mgedmin	good question	12:29
DocScrutinizer	so it's rootsh that swapped that file?	12:29
mgedmin	I did a cat $(which gainroot) and saw	12:29
DocScrutinizer	s/file/script/	12:29
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: so it's rootsh that swapped that script?	12:29
mgedmin	#From Andey Gubarev's easyroot.	12:29
DocScrutinizer	aaah yes	12:29
mgedmin	perhaps rootsh is based on an earlier package called easyroot?	12:29
DocScrutinizer	got that too	12:29
mgedmin	apt doesn't know anything about easyroot, but shows I've got rootsh installed	12:30
mgedmin	thanks for reminding about the name, I was scratching my head after apt-cache policy rootme disclaimed any knowledge	12:30
infobot	mgedmin: de nada	12:30
mgedmin	wat?	12:30
mgedmin	what did I say to trigger infobot?	12:31
DocScrutinizer	HAHA	12:31
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DocScrutinizer	look at	12:32
DocScrutinizer	if [ -x /mnt/initfs/usr/bin/cal-tool ]; then	12:32
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DocScrutinizer	CALTOOL="/usr/sbin/chroot /mnt/initfs cal-tool"	12:32
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DocScrutinizer	100 point for a good explanation if this is a vulnerability or not, and why :-)	12:34
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DocScrutinizer	but yeah, if sudo doesn't get to execute the script even, then you won't win a snip there	12:36
DocScrutinizer	scoobertron: R&D won't work either	12:37
DocScrutinizer	so it's reflash for you	12:40
DocScrutinizer	unless you want to go the path of meego-jedi and use rescue-initrd	12:40
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DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: indeed, what did you do to trigger infobot? your "reference" to her other name apt been in your former post	12:43
scoobertron	nah, I think it is reflash o' clock	12:43
DocScrutinizer	thanks apt done it, see?	12:43
infobot	no worries, DocScrutinizer	12:43
mgedmin	thanks blah blah blah apt blah blah?	12:43
infobot	no worries, mgedmin	12:43
mgedmin	yep	12:43
mgedmin	:)	12:43
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scoobertron	I though apt was a #debian bot. maybe it's lost	12:46
DocScrutinizer	thanks infobot works too?	12:46
mgedmin	hahaha	12:46
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mgedmin	no	12:46
DocScrutinizer	hahaha, legacy, ancient legacy	12:47
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DocScrutinizer	~info sudo	12:47
DocScrutinizer	meh	12:48
DocScrutinizer	~+info sudo	12:48
infobot	Updating debian files... please wait.	12:48
DocScrutinizer	ouch	12:48
DocScrutinizer	LOL	12:48
DocScrutinizer	~status	12:48
infobot	Since Sun May 29 22:34:31 2011, there have been 36 modifications, 556 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 368 commands. I have been awake for 14d 11h 14m 8s this session, and currently reference 117826 factoids. I'm using about 38768 kB of memory. With 1 active fork. Process time user/system 3848.58/103.21 child 0/0	12:48
DocScrutinizer	apt died	12:48
DocScrutinizer	back again ;-P	12:49
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Sicelo	how does infobot detect morons?	12:49
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DocScrutinizer	good question - obviously not at all	12:50
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infobot	sudo: (Provide limited super user privileges to specific users), section admin, is optional. Version: 1.7.4p6-1 (sid), Packaged size: 393 kB, Installed size: 716 kB	12:50
Termana	That feature had to be disabled. The number was going outside the variables range.	12:50
* DocScrutinizer wonders how long that updating debian files takes		12:50
DocScrutinizer	aaah	12:51
DocScrutinizer	Termana: lol	12:51
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DocScrutinizer	so now you learnt why infobot thinks she's apt	12:51
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DocScrutinizer	thanks apt	12:54
infobot	no problem, DocScrutinizer	12:54
ruskie	http://www.reghardware.com/2011/06/13/nokia_whupped_by_samsung_apple/ <-- bye bye... it's been nice knowing you	12:55
DocScrutinizer	this time for real?	12:55
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ruskie	well apparently they've dropped from the 1st place globaly	12:56
ruskie	smartphones that is	12:56
DocScrutinizer	aaah, got that wrong	12:56
DocScrutinizer	thought it's the big sellout already	12:56
ruskie	if this keeps going there won't be much to sell will there?	12:57
DocScrutinizer	as then I'd say "byebye Elop, take your winP7 and run!"	12:57
Termana	Trojan horse	12:57
ruskie	whoever thought that sticking Elop in charge was a good idea will probably be getting a huge bonus or something as well	12:58
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DocScrutinizer	as neither Samsung nor Apple will be interested in Nokia selling windows phones	12:58
Termana	If I read the article right, Samsung is selling more than Apple?	12:59
DocScrutinizer	iNokia galaxy	12:59
jaska	ugh, now getting phonesexline sms spam, guess i need to start blacklisting :)	12:59
ruskie	to bad I'm not really interested in any Apple gear... as for Samsung.. unless they actually come up with a maemo like open device... they're more or less a dead market for me as well	12:59
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ruskie	Termana, apple is a niche player at best in europe I'd say	13:00
Termana	Oh, it's just for Europe, not overall?	13:01
ruskie	it's overall	13:01
ruskie	though no clue what metrics they are using	13:01
DocScrutinizer	I guess the iPHone market is rather small in India and Africa	13:02
ruskie	odd though that apple got the top smartphone spot in europe	13:02
DocScrutinizer	for india it's too expensive, for africa too flimsy	13:02
ruskie	though of course... I wonder how big the market share is for all the 'droid manufacturers put togheter in europe	13:03
DocScrutinizer	well, I actually don't know anybod< with a droid	13:04
ruskie	I do... actually quite a few people now	13:04
DocScrutinizer	all iPhoney here	13:04
ruskie	even our business phones the people are buying some droids @work	13:05
ruskie	gah	13:05
ruskie	I can't type apparently	13:05
ruskie	one of them actually has a touch symbian device	13:05
ruskie	it's sad seeing him trying to use it	13:05
DocScrutinizer	sob	13:06
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ruskie	I wonder if cellcos will ever start selling dual-sim kits with one sim call+sms only and the other 3g only and you can use both at the same time...	13:09
Hurrian	ruskie, carriers love charging you	13:10
Hurrian	i'm thinking of buying a dual sim kit for the n900 actually	13:10
Hurrian	since there's unlimited data for a 3.5G USB stick @ $20USD	13:10
ruskie	you misunderstood me... not two separate accounts... a single account but with separate functionality	13:11
Hurrian	ah	13:11
ruskie	so that I can have a cheap call/sms only cell phone with a number and a 3g sim card for whatever portable device I want to use atm using the same account and costs	13:11
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Hurrian	my ISP actually gives you free 3.5G internet as an extension of the service at home	13:12
ruskie	hmm my cellco started to offer iphone 4	13:12
Hurrian	i cba to switch phone numbers on my n900 and i already have an unlimited call+text on another carrier	13:13
Hurrian	so i just stuck it in my iphone 4	13:13
ruskie	for a 54€/m cost	13:13
Hurrian	ouch.	13:13
Hurrian	that's pricy	13:14
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ruskie	well I pay 5€/m for the basic service	13:14
ruskie	no free calls/texts/data	13:14
ruskie	and then on top of that 12€/m for 2gb of data allowance per month	13:14
Hurrian	12 euro for 2GB?	13:15
Hurrian	god damn	13:15
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ruskie	I could pay 18€/month for 20gb	13:15
Hurrian	US$20 gets me unlimited calls+text, and +$20 gets me unlimited data	13:16
ruskie	if I just get a 3g only account I can pay 15€/m for 10gb of data or 24€/month for "unlimited"(drops to 128kbit/s on reaching 20gb)	13:16
Hurrian	where i'm from, everybody loves unlimited. if it's not unlimited, it won't sell	13:17
Termana	Gees	13:17
Termana	I'm on 10 GB for $40 AUD	13:17
Termana	Which has just gone up from $60 for 8 GB	13:17
Hurrian	an isp actually went bankrupt from having the fastest home DSL @ 5Mbps but with a 15GB cap	13:17
Termana	(down/up whatever, at least it's a little better now)	13:17
ruskie	Termana, so 30 eur	13:17
Hurrian	in before someone says i'm from a third world country	13:18
Termana	ruskie, yeah	13:18
Termana	And that's basically the CHEAPEST 3G service we have in Australia	13:18
Termana	All the others are charging out their arse	13:18
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ruskie	I can get 51 min to all other networks, 101 mb data and 101 text for 20€/month	13:19
ruskie	and can even mix and match stuff	13:19
ruskie	maybe I want 201 mins to other networks... etc...	13:19
ruskie	actually 51min to all even home network	13:19
Hurrian	personally i'd rather have unlimited minutes rather than texts	13:19
ruskie	the 101 minute package comes with free calls in home network	13:19
ruskie	no unlimited options for that here	13:20
ruskie	1001 is the max for minutes and texts	13:20
Hurrian	i have never, ever texted anyone in the past 5 years	13:20
Termana	Hurrian, that's cause your from a third world country	13:20
Termana	zing!	13:20
mece	lol	13:20
ruskie	I probably do more texting than calling	13:21
Hurrian	termana, i only call people!	13:21
ruskie	but I don't really use either	13:21
mece	I want m6 sdk.	13:21
Hurrian	and personally, i'd rather route all this shit thru sip/voip	13:21
ruskie	I basically pay 5eur so I don't use it for 99% of the time	13:21
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ruskie	sheesh... I wish the cellco would actually tell the data division and the calls division and the marketing department that they should agree on some common price points	13:22
ruskie	on their put togheter a package they are charging 18€/m for 3gb data limit	13:23
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ruskie	while for 18€/m as an added option you can get 20gb/m	13:23
Hurrian	mece, I want maemo 6 HE for N900.	13:24
mece	Hurrian, that would be nice too, but first I want sdk	13:25
bindi	up to 15 Mbit/s for 13.49€/mo, no caps	13:26
ruskie	bindi, well different caps ;)	13:26
ruskie	speed cap: 15 Mbit/s	13:26
ruskie	vs size cap: 20gb	13:26
ThreeM	100Mbit/s for 29 euros :)	13:27
ruskie	hahaha	13:27
ruskie	cute	13:27
ThreeM	unlimited traffic for sure	13:27
DocScrutinizer	100Mbit/s? WTF?!	13:28
DocScrutinizer	what's that? 3G++?	13:28
ThreeM	upstream is 10mbits	13:28
ThreeM	fibreoptic :)	13:28
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ThreeM	:p	13:28
DocScrutinizer	we got DSL here that maxes out at 50Mbit	13:28
RST38h	A'ok. Tasks left: audio support, file selector, missing buttons support, touch screen	13:29
ThreeM	vdsl i gues	13:29
DocScrutinizer	yup	13:29
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ThreeM	they have to give the user more upstream	13:30
ThreeM	thats more important than downstream for me	13:30
DocScrutinizer	I'm on a lame 1Mb line here, with an upstream slow as molasses. Actually my 3G is magnitudes faster than that	13:30
crashanddie	ThreeM, what country?	13:31
DocScrutinizer	literally magnitudes	13:31
ThreeM	germany	13:31
ruskie	hahahaha just read an article in the local news about how users really don't need a laptop/computer but a tablet or a smartphone only...	13:31
DocScrutinizer	sure, as lusers are lusers	13:32
ruskie	and apparently business users shouldn't need anything more as well	13:32
DocScrutinizer	they don't even know what that thing is, it's just funny collorful	13:32
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DocScrutinizer	ruskie: and authors should engrave their new books into stone?	13:33
ruskie	and this is written from someone who apparently does usability stuff	13:33
DocScrutinizer	a certified gashead	13:33
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DocScrutinizer	usability tested for consoles	13:34
DocScrutinizer	tester*	13:34
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DocScrutinizer	and toasters	13:35
ruskie	and apparently the place this guy works in is in the same building I work in	13:35
DocScrutinizer	heh great, so you can give him a visit	13:35
ruskie	he probably does usability stuff for web apps so basicalyl mixing air and putting pwetty things around	13:36
DocScrutinizer	I can see why you don't need a proper computer for webapps	13:37
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DocScrutinizer	the question is: who needs webapps?	13:38
ruskie	apparently according to him... everyone	13:38
DocScrutinizer	I guess this dude got no secretary	13:38
DocScrutinizer	or he's an evil anarchist and terrorist	13:39
ruskie	but most of the people that are working here couldn't even wipe their arses with a tablet since they actually need performance(they are mostly developers or do heavy computation lifting of one sort or another)	13:39
DocScrutinizer	so the latter	13:39
crashanddie	if you do heavy computation and are considering a tablet, you're not a developer.	13:39
DocScrutinizer	no, you're a mole terrorist	13:40
ruskie	crashanddie, I never said I or we were considering a tablet ;)	13:40
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ruskie	other than to test anything we might develop for them since the CTO seems to have some grand ideas how mobile apps will be I don't know what...	13:41
DocScrutinizer	this dude (allegedly usability) is a mole trying to tear down the company	13:41
DocScrutinizer	your local Elop ;-P	13:41
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ruskie	DocScrutinizer, well I said building not company ;)	13:42
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ruskie	a building can have multiple companies in it...	13:42
DocScrutinizer	so an ueber-Elop with a master plan for a whole region	13:43
DocScrutinizer	suggesting nobody needs any IT except a tablet is really tepco	13:44
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ruskie	owww fun... this gov already managed to shoot out both it's legs and is now trying to shoot out it's knees... one law is for criminalizing downloading of copyrighted works without permission... if you download more than 5000 eur worth of downloads you are facing jail time of up to 3 years... and ...	13:47
ruskie	... for over 50000 eur jail time of up to 5 years...	13:47
Hurrian	lol wut	13:47
crashanddie	its legs, its knees.	13:47
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ruskie	crashanddie, sorry about that	13:47
ruskie	and for the second one... the cops want to extend wiretapping laws to allow them to monitor basically all communications metadata(origin, destination, time, duration etc...) on the same point of tapping where they have a valid wiretap warrant...	13:48
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ruskie	ow... and they just lost 3 referendums on the same day like a week ago...(which was basically the first two shoots)	13:49
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gri	DocScrutinizer: did you get the german localization in scratchbox working?	13:49
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RST38h	Doc: What? Elop bred and split into two? Who is his clone?	13:50
RST38h	gri <-- a real aesthete	13:50
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Noteplate	hello	13:52
gri	RST38h: This means no way? :D	13:52
Noteplate	?	13:52
ruskie	Noteplate, ask if you have anything to ask	13:52
thopiekar	hi.. I'll get an N900 at the end of the week and I'm now repackaging console apps at sb.. now managed to build streamripper that I uploaded already on diablo and xbindkeys.. I think Macer wanted xbindkeys afaik weeks before.. are there other console apps from ubuntu you want?	13:52
ruskie	else just sit back and enjoy the show	13:52
DocScrutinizer	gri: nope	13:53
Noteplate	I just wanted an idea for my n900 based blog name	13:53
DocScrutinizer	switched back to english and all fine	13:53
Noteplate	hopefully to help out the end users a little bit	13:53
ruskie	n900-no-more.nokia-no-more.microsoft maybe ?	13:53
Noteplate	its going to have app roundups and things like that to hopefully reduce the amount of disgruntled end users	13:54
RST38h	gri: Means "WHY?"	13:55
ruskie	Noteplate, so you want to magically change their N900 into fruit-companyphones and robot-namedphones ?	13:55
* RST38h wonders what would world need another n900-themed blog for		13:56
Noteplate	no but maybe offering some simple solutions to common problems would help	13:56
crashanddie	Another blog, woop de fucking woop	13:57
RST38h	Noteplate: like, the solution to searching on TMO and Google?	13:57
gri	RST38h: Just to know if it works for others, I can live with the english one, too	13:57
crashanddie	Was "Imtoolametofindaname" already taken?	13:57
ruskie	Noteplate, most disgruntled users tend to be of theopinion of: OMFG this isn't android or iphone you $%^#%$@%$*$ liars	13:58
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cehteh	dead-horses as blog name? :)	13:58
ruskie	and of course directed at the maemo community... not at nokia...	13:58
thopiekar	I'm sorry if I'm wrong but is searching a blog name not a little but toooo offtopic?	13:59
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ruskie	and I think I've noticed a few common ones of the type: how can I run this app that my friend is running on his shiny	13:59
crashanddie	thopiekar, oh I'm sorry, who made you operator?	14:00
RST38h	thopiekar: no, just lame.	14:00
ruskie	hmm maybe someone should make faqtmo.blog	14:00
ruskie	and just bring all these common questions with answers there	14:00
ruskie	so people can ignore it there as well and post yet another thread with the same name	14:01
Noteplate	well more things like "whats the best way to view facebook" kaverspous touch.facebook ect	14:01
Noteplate	or ways to watch tv on n900	14:01
RST38h	faqme4im2lame2google.blog	14:01
joga	I'd like a "what's a good mail client"	14:01
* joga doesn't really get the hostility towards this blog...		14:01
ruskie	joga, good or good enough?	14:01
joga	ruskie, good enough	14:02
ruskie	joga, it's not hostility towards the blog	14:02
ruskie	joga, mutt?	14:02
RST38h	The favorite of all times is "my battery is dead how do I turn n900 on?"	14:02
Noteplate	all im asking for is some blog name ideas not a discussion of "i hate end users because ...."	14:02
ruskie	it's the idea that people will actually find it	14:02
joga	ruskie, yes, I use mutt over ssh, it's just that not everyone uses their phone via terminal	14:02
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ruskie	joga, erm... so? use it localy... setup mailcap to open graphical things graphically	14:03
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joga	ruskie, ehrm....let's assume a business user for example. I haven't found any mail client that would handle even the basics	14:03
ruskie	speaking of which I really ought to build alpine for n900 sometime soon	14:03
joga	besides thunderbird in easydebian or such	14:03
jacekowski	modest	14:03
ruskie	claws-mail ?	14:03
gri	Noteplate: You want to buy a domain?	14:03
jacekowski	claws is even worse than modest	14:03
ruskie	I'm assuming you are refering to calendaring etc...	14:03
ruskie	jacekowski, outlook is worst than modest... outlook express as well	14:04
BluesLee	who uses smscon here?	14:04
joga	ruskie, mostly just accessing an imap account and folder support	14:04
cehteh	.. note: the next smartphone should have an useable email client	14:04
cehteh	with imap, dozens of folders and tens of thousands of messages no email client works :/ ...	14:05
joga	no prob with mutt	14:05
ruskie	cehteh, alpine works fine	14:05
joga	or, ok, I don't have tens of thousands of messages but over a ten thousand at least	14:05
cehteh	imap idle support?	14:06
ruskie	any caching client though will fail at most imap tasks	14:06
cehteh	well modest cant even select subscribed folders	14:06
ruskie	modest is frankly a joke	14:06
cehteh	and notifies on every incoming mail .. which is most usualy spam	14:06
Noteplate	to be honest not everybody wants to ssh and other do other "techie" stuff just to read an email	14:06
ruskie	Noteplate, and they have modest for that	14:07
cehteh	here things get into inbox and are sorted then by popfile	14:07
ruskie	I have on delivery sieve filtering... so stuff is already sorted into folders	14:07
joga	me too..	14:07
ruskie	and I have a New mails server provided virtual dir that shows all new mail in various folders	14:07
Noteplate	When nokia sold the phone there was no warning that the phone is for linux geeks only. There are plenty of end users who own the phone and for good reason too	14:07
ruskie	Noteplate, end users by Nokia definition will use the phone as is out of the box I'd say	14:08
crashanddie	Noteplate, abill_uk, is that you?	14:08
joga	most non-techy end users I know have sold it for some other phone...	14:08
cehteh	i am a linux geek but still there is no useable mail solution	14:08
Noteplate	Its like buying a car then being told it will only work if your a mechanic	14:08
joga	I agree with cehteh	14:08
joga	besides using mutt	14:08
joga	:)	14:08
cehteh	mutt is not really a solutiion	14:09
ruskie	cehteh, agreed... there is no actual usable email client on the n900 that would just work	14:09
joga	problem was, I was asked what mail client would be ok (a gui one) but couldn't give an answer after researching a bit	14:09
Noteplate	ruskie, your saying that no end user will want to add functionality to their phone?	14:09
ruskie	Noteplate, most of them won't use a phone beyond basic calls and messaging	14:09
Noteplate	also for me if I run into a simple problem it pains me to trawl through countless threads for an answer	14:09
ruskie	Noteplate, then call it tmofaq.blog	14:10
joga	I can't understand a person who doesn't use the phone beyond the basics and buys a smartphone	14:10
ruskie	and find the most common questions and answers and do it	14:10
Noteplate	exactly	14:10
cehteh	i wont miss threading .. but push email aka imap idle and selectable subscriptions for important folders only and then only notifications enabled for even fewer folders are a must	14:10
crashanddie	Noteplate, how about you just become an editor for mwkn?	14:10
Noteplate	whats mwkn?	14:10
crashanddie	oh ffs	14:10
cehteh	and mutt doesnt solve the notification problem	14:10
ruskie	maemo weekly news?	14:10
ruskie	I'd like JUST notification	14:11
ruskie	no email client at all... just a tool I tell it to get updates from the imap dirs I specifiy... and notify me with a quick from, subject, maybe some body	14:11
joga	but hey, you can access n900 over ssh so the mutt running in your shell could make it do a notification!1	14:11
Noteplate	ruskie, your telling me that smartphone buyers use only basic calls and messaging, have you heard of the iPhone by any chance?	14:11
joga	;)	14:11
ruskie	Noteplate, I didn't say ALL... I said MOST	14:12
Noteplate	I dont think thats true	14:12
ruskie	hell if I look at my own use... I mostly don't use 90% of the functionality of the n900 and I consider myself a geek...	14:12
joga	I feel that most would expect being able to do something more besides sms and calling	14:12
crashanddie	Noteplate, you're a troll. I'm about to kick your ass out of here.	14:12
joga	...	14:12
Noteplate	im not a troll	14:12
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crashanddie	Then don't behave like one.	14:13
maybeWTF	well you can play solitaire	14:13
joga	crashanddie, like how?	14:13
Noteplate	your all just pretty closed minded about new users and anybody helping them	14:13
crashanddie	Oh really?	14:13
ruskie	I like helping new users...	14:13
Noteplate	by telling them to use ssh?	14:13
ruskie	but I expect them to be able to logically deduce things on their own	14:13
ruskie	not handholding them on how to do things	14:14
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crashanddie	Noteplate, listen, good luck on the blog, you're not the first one who tried, and won't be the last, methinks.	14:14
joga	sometimes a bit of handholding will save a couple years of someone's time and may leave them happier	14:14
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ruskie	yes a bit	14:15
crashanddie	Noteplate, however, I've also seen quite a few of those, and most of them went the way of the dodo	14:15
ruskie	but I've had to deal with various users over the years of various software... and hit to many times on the: it's urgent I need this done asap tell me all the steps on how to do it NOW! NOW! NOW!!!	14:15
Noteplate	its almost like if somebody is not an "end user" to you they must be "linux geek" is there no middleground of user who wants to install some good apps and generally use more than calls?	14:15
Noteplate	all i wanted is a name	14:16
crashanddie	Noteplate, well, it's exactly because the whole community behaves that way that I've stopped being involved	14:16
ruskie	I suggested it...	14:16
ruskie	tmofaqs	14:16
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ruskie	Noteplate, those users tend to be in the I need help how can I do this and that	14:16
crashanddie	or howtomaemo	14:16
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crashanddie	you'll definitely get a lot of hits from all the users typing "how to $x maemo" in google.	14:17
Noteplate	how to n900?	14:17
maybeWTF	push buttan	14:17
ruskie	that could work as well	14:17
Noteplate	but its not just how tos, there will be other stuff :s	14:18
Noteplate	like css3/html5 testing	14:18
ruskie	your point?	14:18
crashanddie	maemovolcano then	14:18
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crashanddie	maemo-is-bueno-and-if-you-want-to-be-sereno-you-should-go-to-magdaleno	14:19
crashanddie	Now, don't say we didn't help.	14:19
joga	nokianoob	14:19
ruskie	as for the aggressive stance against users... I've had like a month or so ago had a person come to some channel and ask for a fully working config for their setup for that software so they wouldn't have to do it while they were charging a client for that service!!!	14:20
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joga	that would be AWESOME	14:21
joga	imagine the furious client after you give them the destructive configuration	14:21
joga	or otherwise convoluted so they waste more time reading through it than writing their own	14:22
ruskie	I tend to mostly link users to relevant docs for their problems	14:22
Noteplate	so how do you guys browse facebook?	14:22
joga	but such blatancy should be used be some funny person	14:22
joga	I'm not on facebook so no problem for me..	14:23
Jaffa	Noteplate: Web site, infrequently.	14:23
Noteplate	on your n900?	14:23
ruskie	Noteplate, fecesbook? haven't touched it ever	14:23
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joga	I'd just use the browser I guess	14:23
Jaffa	Noteplate: Have you considered a nicely tended garden as part of wiki.maemo.org?	14:23
Jaffa	Noteplate: Take on ownership of {{Category:HowTo}}, come up with a nice consistent template and style guide.	14:23
Noteplate	Scinario: your out with friends, one of them tells you about a funny video on youtube(about cats or something retarded) how would you view it? native browser? or a viewer, but then which one? you dont have time to piss about with each solution so it would of been better to know in advance, when that nice blog showed you the best client.	14:26
Jaffa	Noteplate: Yes, on my N900.	14:26
ruskie	Noteplate, youtube-dl with mplayer ;)	14:27
Jaffa	Noteplate: Not sure about your use case. The speed of download would be a little limiting, I think. Meaning - in that user story - the built-in browser would be best.	14:27
Noteplate	the blog would list things like this so end users and geeks alike would know the best way to do things	14:28
Noteplate	by showing the pros and cons of each way	14:28
Noteplate	same with facebook, the full site display images in that annoying modal box	14:29
Jaffa	Noteplate: Your definition of "best" may vary, of course.	14:29
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Noteplate	yes, but the reader would be able to tell by the review of the app within the article	14:30
Jaffa	Noteplate: Anyway, as I hinted, the chronological nature of a blog isn't the best taxonomy; and it'd be more useful to the community to take on a portion of the wiki.maemo.org garden, and tend it as its groundkeeper.	14:30
Jaffa	Noteplate: Are you going to try and be a review place as well, like my-maemo.com or other sites which just regurgitate maemo.org/downloads/?	14:30
Noteplate	A bit, but also like the .appstorm website particularly this: http://mac.appstorm.net/how-to/video-how-to/3-easy-steps-to-improve-youtube-on-your-mac/	14:32
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Noteplate	articles like that, helping n900 users do simple things in every day situations	14:32
Jaffa	Fantastic idea.	14:33
Jaffa	I still suggest the wiki	14:33
Noteplate	maybe "intergrate your n900 with social media" best way to upload to flickr,youtube,facebook ect	14:33
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Jaffa	Then you don't have to worry about the name and, when you lose interest, your content isn't lost.	14:33
Noteplate	ok ill have a look at the wiki	14:34
Noteplate	my username is jackdoor	14:34
Noteplate	im not sure if i will use the wiki but i may	14:35
Jaffa	Well, if you choose not to, we'll wish you luck & send you on your way.	14:36
Jaffa	(IYSWIM)	14:36
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Noteplate	thanks for the discussion guys, i think some content definatly belongs in the wiki but some may require a separate blog. Ill have a think about it at lunch	14:40
DocScrutinizer	~bon appetit	14:41
infobot	well, bon appetit is smacznego. Guten Appetit. Eet Smakelijk. God Appetitt. Buon Appetito. Buen apetito Bom Apetite. buen apetito Smaklig måltid!. Hyvää ruokahalua. Bo Proveito Mahlzeit!	14:41
Noteplate	the maemo.org wiki seems to be aimed at the n810/n800	14:42
DocScrutinizer51	nope	14:42
DocScrutinizer51	it's aimed at maemo devices	14:43
DocScrutinizer51	~flash	14:43
infobot	from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	14:43
Noteplate	would an entry of "how to watch tv on your n900" be acceptable	14:43
Jaffa	Noteplate: Of course	14:44
Noteplate	nice	14:44
DocScrutinizer51	much appreciated	14:44
Jaffa	Noteplate: http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:Beginners and http://wiki.maemo.org/Tutorials seem appropriate sections to slot into	14:45
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Noteplate	thanks guys I've got lunch break in 10 so ill have a think and probably start work when i get home	14:47
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Noteplate	I think I will make the blog and mirror some of the content to the wiki. As some posts would not fit into the wiki like "top 10 n900 games" or "having fun with Dj turntables for the n900"	14:52
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ThreeM	hmm	15:08
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ThreeM	sometimes the mediaplaye widget stop working	15:08
ThreeM	only the play button	15:08
ThreeM	when i close the widget and open it again, a few widgets crash	15:09
ThreeM	any idea why?	15:09
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SpeedEvil	On the stock mdia player - is there a way to 'jog' - the track playing back or foward with the keyboard?	15:13
SpeedEvil	On a 2h program - say - it's hard to move position by under 10 mins.	15:14
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Jaffa	SpeedEvil: NAFAIK :-(	15:20
SpeedEvil	K	15:20
SpeedEvil	Thanks	15:20
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ruskie	http://www.reghardware.com/2011/06/13/review_motorola_atrix_android_smartphone/ <-- hmm "and a biometric fingerprint security pad, which doubles as the power/sleep button." mugger: "give us your phone" grab his arm... pulls finger over the reader... there unlocked... now we have it all	15:23
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ruskie	actually the atrix looks interesting as a netbook replacement with that dock	15:30
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pronto	so i use a socks5 proxy to tunnel my traffic, does anyone know of a way to get chrome to also tunnel dns traffic?	15:32
RST38h	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/13/lasercyte/	15:34
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thopiekar	pronto: have you checked about:config?	15:43
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RST38h	...and now, the shocker: Android does not have a core file chooser component!	15:53
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ruskie	RST38h, well that doesn't actually seem so weird given googles cloud tendencies	15:55
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Jaffa	RST38h: That's OK, neither does QML	15:57
pronto	oh wow, i compeley posted that in the wrong channel...	15:57
thopiekar	hope it helped anyways.. about:config will give you more options to change..	15:58
pronto	chrome does not have an about:config	15:58
pronto	i know firefox has an about:config optoin for dns tunneling	15:58
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RST38h	Android device emulator crashes pitifully after ~5-10 minutes of running	16:30
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mgedmin	at least maemo doesn't have this problem (no emulator -> no problem)	16:30
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Macer	android device emulator?	16:34
Macer	wtf?	16:34
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Macer	is it just a dalvik jre?	16:35
mgedmin	I don't think so	16:35
mgedmin	it was way too slow to be just a jre	16:36
mgedmin	I think it emulates a CPU	16:36
Macer	why does it need to emulate a cpu?	16:36
mgedmin	beats me	16:36
mgedmin	can you use native code in android apps, or is it all just dalvik?	16:36
Macer	they released a native sdk	16:36
mgedmin	well then	16:37
Macer	i think it is called ndk or something	16:37
mgedmin	I base my guess on observation: I downloaded an android game and ran it in the emulator, for kicks	16:37
mgedmin	it was too slow to be playable	16:37
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gri	Wasn't the android emulator just another qemu running the system?	16:38
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* lardman is rather surprised that apparently one cannot specify the default line endings in QtCreator		16:41
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_berto_	http://hassonybeenhackedthisweek.com/	16:56
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gruinelli	Hi all	17:30
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CaCO3	I am trying to mount a network drive with sshfs. It works and I can see the first level of teh mounted directory, how ever I get this error on mounting: "mount: getcwd: No such file or directory". Does anybody know how to solve this? Havent found a solution in the web yet :(	17:32
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scoobertron	can I make it so that the terminal icon will open a new terminal even if one is open already? I know I can open a new one from within xterm, but I would prefer to use the icon to launch new terminals.	18:36
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Jaffa	scoobertron: Yes, but I forget how	18:44
Jaffa	scoobertron: Look at vim's .desktop file	18:45
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Jaffa	scoobertron: ...and the vim.launch script	18:45
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scoobertron	I fixed it by adapting the solution here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54453	18:54
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GeneralAntilles	I love Engadget: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/13/nintendo-3ds-has-resistive-touchscreen-for-backwards-compatibili/	19:15
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ruskie	rofl	19:21
ruskie	resistive isn't really archaic	19:22
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jacekowski	well, resistive is older than capacitive	19:30
jacekowski	but it can do some things that capacitive can't	19:30
jacekowski	SAW screens would be great if can be made sensitive enough to work with stylus	19:31
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kevloral	Hello all	19:38
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GeneralAntilles	ruskie: intellectual honesty is a scarce resource at Engadget.com	19:45
ruskie	yeah	19:45
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Venemo	GeneralAntilles, "intellectual" is a scarce resource at engadget.com	19:51
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GeneralAntilles	Venemo, no, it's filled to the brim with "intellectuals" (see the Week in Green column). :P	19:53
Venemo	:D	19:53
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fusi[n901]	how many n900 were sold?	20:11
SpeedEvil	7	20:12
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GeneralAntilles	fusi[n901], nobody but Nokia knows for sure.	20:12
fusi[n901]	just curious how large userbase is	20:12
petteri	quite big, I would guess	20:13
petteri	but getting smaller all the time	20:13
fusi[n901]	millions or thousands do you think	20:13
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petteri	if those where the options i would pick the first one :)	20:14
GAN900	Million, maybe.	20:14
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SpeedEvil	IIRC 130K was mentioned as having sold in the first few weeks by nokia	20:15
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fusi[n901]	blimey	20:20
fusi[n901]	thats a lot more than i thought	20:20
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CaCO3	I am trying to mount a network drive with sshfs. It works and I can see the first level of teh mounted directory, how ever I get this error on mounting: "mount: getcwd: No such file or directory". Does anybody know how to solve this? Havent found a solution in the web yet :(	21:25
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RST38h	Electric cars manufactured by Nissan surreptitiously leak detailed information about a driver's location, speed and destination to websites accessed through the vehicle's built in RSS reader	22:51
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SpeedEvil	http://seattlewireless.net/~casey/?p=97	22:54
SpeedEvil	funky	22:54
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Venemo	~burn nvidia for making such a crappy driver	23:28
* infobot pours gasoline all over nvidia for making such a crappy driver, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze		23:28
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Venemo	thank you infobot	23:29
infobot	Venemo: gern geschehen	23:29
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DocScrutinizer	o.O	23:59

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