IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2011-04-02

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pupnik[MP3] Karen Kwiatkowski, columnist at lewrockwell.com and retired USAF lieutenant colonel, discusses the Bush administration’s early Iraq War planning...  http://antiwar.com/radio/2011/03/23/karen-kwiatkowski-8/00:06
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pupnikappropriately00:07
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DocScrutinizerjigrap: see00:15
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DocScrutinizer~optification00:15
infobotwell, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence300:15
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DocScrutinizerjigrap: also see /etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf00:17
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DocScrutinizermarkinfo: depends on what Bt-profiles you got paired00:19
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DocScrutinizerIf you got PAN then there's no difference to WLAN or USB-networking. Log in via ssh, or use sftp:// in your browser00:20
DocScrutinizerif you got OBEX profile, then I think there are special tool for that00:21
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DocScrutinizerif you got e.g DUN profile then I guess there's no way to browse filesystem00:22
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o0-Dan-0ois there any command to check cpu actual clock speed?00:30
o0-Dan-0o(n900)00:31
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SpeedEvilpowertop00:31
SpeedEvilOr poke around sysfs00:31
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o0-Dan-0opowertop = simple00:36
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o0-Dan-0oas for sysfs00:36
o0-Dan-0o:x00:36
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o0-Dan-0omaybe some googling00:36
o0-Dan-0o^00:36
o0-Dan-0o^^00:37
o0-Dan-0othx SpeedEvil00:37
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SpeedEvil:)00:37
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markinfoDocScrutinizer, " what Bt-profiles you got paired"  ..pairing depends on specific Profile? I do not think so. Pairing is to define trusted devices.00:51
DocScrutinizermarkinfo: yes, pairing two devices via BT also defines which profiles are used00:52
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DocScrutinizero0-Dan-0o: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_cur_freq00:59
o0-Dan-0oyeah i think i've tryed that and i got something like path not found or something01:00
o0-Dan-0omaybe permissions related01:00
o0-Dan-0oneed root?01:00
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SpeedEvilyes01:01
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DocScrutinizero0-Dan-0o: also interesting: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/*01:03
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DocScrutinizer(probably more useful than cpuinfo_cur_freq)01:03
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DocScrutinizeras well: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/*01:08
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o0-Dan-0othanks01:13
o0-Dan-0o=)01:13
o0-Dan-0oagain01:13
o0-Dan-0ocant try anything right now dryed the battery01:14
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o0-Dan-0owhen the battery was low plugged the charger and continued to use the phone it started to get really hot and in the middle of a skype videocall it shut down01:16
o0-Dan-0ocrashed XD01:16
o0-Dan-0obetter start looking for a spare battery01:19
SpeedEvilIt will do that.01:19
SpeedEvilGet warm that is.01:19
SpeedEvilSkype video call will use a lot of power.01:19
SpeedEvilIt can be more than is supplied by the charger.01:19
DocScrutinizerskype maxing out CPU and video even more01:19
o0-Dan-0o=)01:19
ArGGu^^SpeedEvil here is screencast of the irc client http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqrdzcmxR1M01:20
o0-Dan-0oyeah and the bat. was dry so XD01:20
ArGGu^^It not very good because the screencast eats all cpu :S01:20
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SpeedEvilLooks interesting, though of course need to play with it to see.01:26
SpeedEvilOh - he left.01:26
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o0-Dan-0olol seems i cant load anything01:38
o0-Dan-0owhata..01:38
o0-Dan-0ointernal error..01:38
o0-Dan-0obla bla01:38
o0-Dan-0oaplication closed01:41
o0-Dan-0omy n900 is acting crazy now fully charged after that crash01:41
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o0-Dan-0ocant even load xterminal01:42
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pupnikcan you ssh to it01:45
o0-Dan-0omemory :s ?!01:45
pupnikdo you know what ssh is?01:45
o0-Dan-0oyeah remote shell01:46
o0-Dan-0oright?01:46
pupnikyou might be able to fix without reflashing if you can ssh to device01:46
pupnikyep01:46
o0-Dan-0obut i didnt installed yet01:47
o0-Dan-0obasically i just tryed out skype and that was it01:47
pupnikah then i think ssh won't help you01:47
o0-Dan-0oouch reflash already!?01:47
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o0-Dan-0oi mean i didnt even installed anything or rooted01:48
o0-Dan-0oXD01:48
o0-Dan-0oits insane01:48
pupnikyou installed a trojan01:49
pupnik;)01:49
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o0-Dan-0osomehow i think the phone got memory full.. corrupted01:50
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o0-Dan-0otrojan :s for real.. what ive done with the phone was flashed yesterday and nothing more01:51
o0-Dan-0ooh 2 "themes" downloaded fron nokia01:52
o0-Dan-0ofrom01:52
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DocScrutinizerI don't think you got a real problem, at least I don't think yet01:54
o0-Dan-0oLMAO01:55
o0-Dan-0ochanged language to english it rebooted and now seems ok01:55
DocScrutinizersee?01:55
o0-Dan-0obuggy yeah01:55
o0-Dan-0oXD01:55
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o0-Dan-0oDocScrutinizer, the low bat + charging + skyped videocall +crash = crazy stuff01:56
o0-Dan-0oXD01:56
DocScrutinizernah, sometimes desktop gets weird ideas, I had that like one and ahalf times in 15 months01:57
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o0-Dan-0ooh01:58
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o0-Dan-0othere he goes again acting up01:58
o0-Dan-0ocalender error01:58
o0-Dan-0o#101:58
DocScrutinizeryou said you changed language, so obviously you could start things, at least settings app01:58
o0-Dan-0ointernal error. Aplication 'calendar' closed.01:59
DocScrutinizerI suspect your flashing yesterday went a bit wrong01:59
o0-Dan-0oterminal opens01:59
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DocScrutinizerdid you flash vanilla first and combined after that?02:00
o0-Dan-0ommm well thats weird the phone was fine until that crash02:00
o0-Dan-0oi dont recall02:01
o0-Dan-0o:x02:01
nox-maybe some fs filled up?02:01
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o0-Dan-0oi did what was suggested here02:01
DocScrutinizersince yesterday, with no additional apps installed?02:01
nox-yeah i guess it would be strange...02:02
o0-Dan-0onox-, if thats it what can be done02:02
o0-Dan-0oyeah just 2 themes from nokia02:02
nox-but maybe skype left a big corefile or something like that :)02:02
DocScrutinizerit's not that02:02
DocScrutinizeryeah02:02
DocScrutinizerskype is evil02:02
nox-(tho i'd doubt coredumps are enabled on n900...)02:02
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o0-Dan-0oim with you nox.. i think that crash did something to the mem02:03
nox-what does df -k say?02:03
DocScrutinizerI'd reflash and make sure nothing goes wrong. First flash vanilla, then flash combined02:04
o0-Dan-0oby evil u mean cool right Xd i was making a video cal for "free" on my phone02:04
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o0-Dan-0o=P02:04
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o0-Dan-0o57% use02:05
o0-Dan-0orootfs02:05
DocScrutinizerthat's too low02:06
DocScrutinizerrather02:06
DocScrutinizerI don't dare to say what I think02:06
o0-Dan-0owell nothing seems full.. but the changing languge thing did allow me to be able to run xterm now..02:07
DocScrutinizerreflash, make sure it's done correctly02:08
o0-Dan-0opls do02:08
DocScrutinizerI think you flashed rootfs/combined first and booted in between, then flashed vanilla02:08
DocScrutinizerI'd hope that's the reason why it fails02:09
o0-Dan-0owell my win7 x64 screwed me yesterday i wasnt able to flash vanilla02:09
kwtmI am no longer receiving text messages, nor is the Conversations widget responding.  I suspect I've got a corrupt ~/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db file.  I heard that you can just delete this file and the N900 will start a new one.  Are there any problems with this approach?02:10
o0-Dan-0othe x64 workaround did not do well for me02:10
o0-Dan-0oso i took the phone to my xp32bit02:10
DocScrutinizernonsense, you didn't even try to reboot as I suggested02:10
o0-Dan-0oand done from beggining02:10
o0-Dan-0oso..02:10
o0-Dan-0owhat do u think02:11
DocScrutinizeryour win7 loaded a cdc_ether or phonet driver whan you accidentally booted after flashing rootfs, then for vanilla it didn't find device02:11
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DocScrutinizerso you flashed vanilla on xp02:12
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DocScrutinizerbut you booted device in between, and that ruined things02:12
o0-Dan-0ono02:13
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o0-Dan-0oin xp02:13
o0-Dan-0oi did from the beggining02:13
o0-Dan-0oboth combined and vanilla02:13
o0-Dan-0o;)02:13
DocScrutinizerhmm, doesn't change the possibility you booted device02:14
DocScrutinizerand of course you flashed combined first02:14
o0-Dan-0oin the xp im sure i didnt02:14
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o0-Dan-0odid both without the -R02:14
DocScrutinizerwell, then you probably flashed correctly but bought an OC'd device with a burnout CPU that ruins flash on random02:15
o0-Dan-0owithou disconnecting from usb02:15
o0-Dan-0oouch02:15
kwtm<bump!> on the question about ~/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db02:15
DocScrutinizeranyway, reflashing is your only option left02:16
MohammadAG51what about it02:16
MohammadAG51it's an sqlite3 db02:16
o0-Dan-0ocpu is now default clock i hope thats why i was asking earlier how to check current clock speed02:17
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ArGGu^^Hey what is good file to add copyright and license of icon?02:17
ArGGu^^I mean the file name02:18
o0-Dan-0oyeah its no big deal reflashing as i dont have nothing on the phone yet02:18
MohammadAG51debian/copyright and the app itself02:18
DocScrutinizerflashing combined sets cpu to default clock02:18
MohammadAG51gonna sleep, night :)02:18
ArGGu^^And maybe some other files that does not have them in the file itself02:18
ArGGu^^MohammadAG51 ok02:18
o0-Dan-0othe device is still in warranty..02:18
DocScrutinizerthere are rare reports of a flashing went wrong without obvious signs during the process. Let's hope the second time will work better02:20
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DocScrutinizerplease keep in mind that each powering up the device that doesn't stop at NOLO screen with USB icon *is* a boot02:21
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DocScrutinizerno matter if it's 5 seconds and you pull out battery to stop it02:21
o0-Dan-0owow02:22
DocScrutinizerthat's why I suggest flashing vanilla first, as then a accidental boot doesn't hurt02:22
o0-Dan-0oas im a noob here =P02:23
o0-Dan-0oNOLO screen?02:23
DocScrutinizerNOKIA screen, sorry02:23
o0-Dan-0ooh02:23
DocScrutinizerNOLO is displaying that NOKIA screen02:23
o0-Dan-0oyeah i did a fast google for it XD02:23
o0-Dan-0obut didnt find a defenition02:24
o0-Dan-0oehhe02:24
DocScrutinizerNOkia bootLOader02:24
o0-Dan-0ook02:25
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DocScrutinizerit either stops at that NOKIA screen with USB icon, or it boots up linux (which takes like 1s for kernel) and linux starts configuring device immediately. That's why you MUST NOT boot (not even start to boot) after combined before vanilla02:26
DocScrutinizerso beter flash vanilla first, then flash combined. This way the new rootsystem will not get nuked after starting to configure, as no flashing of vanilla follows02:27
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o0-Dan-0ook DocScrutinizer02:28
o0-Dan-0oso02:28
o0-Dan-0o1st flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f02:28
o0-Dan-0o2nd flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f02:28
DocScrutinizerthe system starts to move binaries to eMMC on first boot. If you flash vanilla after that, those are gone02:28
DocScrutinizeryes02:28
o0-Dan-0oconnect to usb pressing U02:29
DocScrutinizerboth times first start flasher, then plug in device, then insert battery02:29
o0-Dan-0othen do both commands02:29
DocScrutinizerwhile holding 'u'02:29
pupnikdaimonin client looking better... http://i.imgur.com/6aFEK.jpg02:29
DocScrutinizerafter first flashing, you probably need to remove battery to switch off device02:30
o0-Dan-0obut its only done once right?02:30
DocScrutinizerand start 2nd flash the same way you did on first: flasher, plug in, insert bat with 'u'02:30
o0-Dan-0olike after pluggin and sending vanilla02:31
o0-Dan-0owhen it finisshes send combined02:31
DocScrutinizeryou first need to remove bat, as stated above02:31
o0-Dan-0othen turn unplugg phone02:31
o0-Dan-0oand boot02:31
o0-Dan-0o1st time02:31
DocScrutinizeryeah, and unplug phone for first boot, after 2nd flashing02:32
DocScrutinizerit's not exactly helpful to have it connected to PC during firstboot02:33
DocScrutinizerdo NOT use -R, *ever*02:34
o0-Dan-0oyesterday i didnt rebooted between flashes02:34
o0-Dan-0odid one command when the other finished02:34
DocScrutinizeryes, but that doesn't work for safe way vanilla first, due to a bug in NOLO02:34
o0-Dan-0ooh02:35
o0-Dan-0oi get it now02:35
o0-Dan-0o=)02:35
DocScrutinizerNOLO "freezes" after flashing vanilla02:35
DocScrutinizernot always, but very often02:36
DocScrutinizerso:02:36
DocScrutinizerremove bat, flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f, plug in, hold 'u', insert bat02:36
DocScrutinizerremove bat, , plug in,flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f,  hold 'u', insert bat02:37
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DocScrutinizerafter this procedure (if nothing blocked), you *definitely* got a correct flashed device02:39
DocScrutinizerunplug it and reboot for first boot which will take like 5 min02:40
o0-Dan-0o=)02:40
o0-Dan-0othx will do02:40
DocScrutinizerit's not that much more complicated than the 'cute' fast method02:40
DocScrutinizerbut a lot more failsafe02:41
o0-Dan-0oyeah that procedure obeys the big NOTE in the download section02:41
DocScrutinizerthe point is you can not delete /opt when flashing vanilla this way02:42
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DocScrutinizerso an accidental boot is irrelevant02:42
o0-Dan-0oshould be clear and put in a guide as 1st method02:43
o0-Dan-0o(or only)02:43
DocScrutinizerthough extremely unlikely to even happen02:43
DocScrutinizertell that MohammadAG5102:43
DocScrutinizer:-D02:43
o0-Dan-0o:x02:43
o0-Dan-0oim a noob02:43
o0-Dan-0owhat do i know02:43
o0-Dan-0o=P02:43
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o0-Dan-0oi thought i had it clean at 1st time02:44
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o0-Dan-0o:D02:58
o0-Dan-0oDocScrutinizer, proper way done02:59
o0-Dan-0ohehe02:59
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o0-Dan-0o...will i be safe on skype video calls XD03:05
DocScrutinizershould03:05
o0-Dan-0ohehe03:05
o0-Dan-0okidding03:05
o0-Dan-0o=)03:05
o0-Dan-0omaybe a silly question cpu OC get reset to stock after flash?03:06
DocScrutinizeryes03:06
DocScrutinizerbut not the damage done03:07
o0-Dan-0oyeah =/03:07
o0-Dan-0owarranty ftw03:07
o0-Dan-0o^^03:07
DocScrutinizeryeah, test thoroughly03:08
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o0-Dan-0owill do03:10
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o0-Dan-0oany key or combo on hardware keyboard for TAB03:17
o0-Dan-0o?03:17
DocScrutinizerctrl-i might work03:17
o0-Dan-0o:D03:17
o0-Dan-0oty03:17
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o0-Dan-0oseems it didnt03:18
DocScrutinizerfor what?03:19
o0-Dan-0oreplace for TAB03:19
o0-Dan-0okey03:19
DocScrutinizerwhere?03:19
o0-Dan-0oxterm03:19
o0-Dan-0oduh03:19
DocScrutinizerxterm has a tab on the bar at bottom03:19
o0-Dan-0otheres a buttun03:19
o0-Dan-0oXD03:20
o0-Dan-0oyeah sorry03:20
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DocScrutinizero0-Dan-0o: check http://maemo.org/packages/view/notmynokia/ before inserting SIM!03:33
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DocScrutinizero0-Dan-0o: http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription03:41
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o0-Dan-0ois it bad to register03:46
o0-Dan-0o?03:46
o0-Dan-0ooh i guess 2nd link explains it03:47
o0-Dan-0o=)03:47
o0-Dan-0obefore inserting sim03:48
o0-Dan-0owont be possible..03:48
o0-Dan-0oi mean.. only if i reboot without it03:49
o0-Dan-0oy03:49
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o0-Dan-0olmao03:50
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o0-Dan-0o... involves a text (SMS) being sent from the device to Nokia, which might be at the owner's expense...03:50
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o0-Dan-0oindeed doesnt look very nice/legal03:53
o0-Dan-0owill look at it tomorrow and try to disable =)03:53
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SpeedEvilIt's explicitly illegal in the UK.04:03
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: while reading thru this, and doing a lil bit of mc'ing I find /etc/X11/Xsession.post/32mafw and 3?mafw*04:13
DocScrutinizercould you confirm you got same files, and the mafw* seem utterly redundant or even evil regarding mafw does same thing?04:14
SpeedEvil...04:14
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SpeedEvilNokia-N900:/etc/X11/Xsession.post# ls *mafw*04:16
SpeedEvil32mafw-gst-renderer    34mafw-tracker-source04:16
SpeedEvil33mafw-iradio-source   35mafw-upnp-source04:16
SpeedEvilAll have dates of Feb 17-19 2010, renderer Jun 21 201004:17
DocScrutinizer32mafw 2009-09-17  49304:19
DocScrutinizerLOL04:19
DocScrutinizerfor plugin in /usr/lib/mafw-plugin/*.so; do                # For uninstall to work, we must start them using just the                # basename without '.so'.                plugin="${plugin##*/}";                plugin="${plugin%.so}";                nice="";                if test "x$plugin" = "xmafw-gst-renderer"; then                    # Run the renderer with a nice value                    nice="-7";                fi04:20
DocScrutinizersudo /usr/bin/mafw.sh start "$plugin" $nice &        done04:20
DocScrutinizerok, it has a sudo04:21
DocScrutinizerseems somebody missed to uninstall this when updating SSU from 1.0 to 1.304:22
DocScrutinizerI wonder if I got a super-multimedia-device now that each mafw-plugin gets started twice04:24
DocScrutinizer;-P04:24
pupnikmovin to montana soon... gona be a dental floss tycoon...04:25
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DocScrutinizerMOVIN TO MONTANA SOON, GONNA BE A MENTAL TOSS FLYCOON (whatever that means)04:27
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: ps|grep mafw04:28
DocScrutinizeryou might think it's looking odd /usr/bin/mafw-playlist-daemon has no dbus-wrapper04:28
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DocScrutinizerwell, at least starting those plugins twice doesn't mean I got two processes of each04:31
DocScrutinizerstill I'm temped to move away that 32mafw and see if device boots 4s faster04:32
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DocScrutinizerplus a super-YUCK for the hardcoded inline nice value (-7)04:33
SpeedEvilStick a script that moves it back, and then exits in place first of course.04:33
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DocScrutinizergood plan04:34
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DocScrutinizerthough my mood been more ambitious a few hours ago: mv /usr/bin /usr/bin2; mkdir /usr/bin; for f in /usr/bin2/*; do echo -e 'echo `date` /usr/bin2/"$@"'>/var/log/bootusage.log; \n"$@"'>/usr/bin/${f##*/}; done04:42
DocScrutinizerof course you'd need a link of /usr/bin2 to /usr/bin rather than moving it, then create /usr/bin1 that way I suggested for /usr/bin, then mv /usr/bin1 to /usr/bin04:46
DocScrutinizerbut somehow I lost my venturous mood while pondering similar rescue schemes you suggested, SpeedEvil04:48
DocScrutinizernevertheless eventually I'll do this and then sanitaze this whole optification mess04:49
luke-jrso if a HD overheats, is it likely replacing the PCB will fix it?04:50
SpeedEvilbusybox bootchart04:51
DocScrutinizermove all the misplaced /usr/bin/binaries that are used before mount of eMMC to /(s)bin, then move /usr to an own partition and de-optify all the shit04:51
DocScrutinizero.O04:51
SpeedEvilhttp://gitorious.org/busybox/busybox/commit/adbbee46ad0661bf695d2bfe7a07ebced4bbe78004:52
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: unclear04:52
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: sounds handy, but where to get it?04:54
DocScrutinizer'our' messybox says "bootchartd: applet not found"04:56
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: did it make noises prior to failure?05:15
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: dunno, I just plugged it in the night before05:16
luke-jr… to make backups, ironically enough05:16
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: why do you think it overheated?05:20
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: it had no cooling?05:21
DocScrutinizeran external HDD shouldn't need a cooling usually05:21
luke-jrit's "internal", but hooked up to a minimal adapter05:21
DocScrutinizerso ambient temperature was like normal?05:22
nox-i have one external esata/1394/usb disk that the 1394 interface has died on...05:22
DocScrutinizera single drive that has some convection does rarely overheat05:22
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: I guess…05:23
luke-jrbut why else would it suddenly fail?05:23
DocScrutinizerelectrical05:23
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DocScrutinizersudden death of a semiconductor, nothing completely unheard05:23
DocScrutinizereven the cable might be broken ;-D05:24
DocScrutinizerdoes it still spin up?05:25
DocScrutinizerthe by far most 'popular' point of failure is power05:26
DocScrutinizer(on a related sidenote: my Nokia wallcharger went poof while I was out for breakfast)05:28
DocScrutinizerand >50% of 'dead' PCs I fixed had a broken PSU05:29
DocScrutinizeranother significant number probably broken regulators for CPU core power05:29
DocScrutinizer- ok - a lot of those had dry or bursted elcos05:30
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DocScrutinizerin SPSU it's usually the schottkys and/or power switch transistors05:32
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jocHey guys just bought a used n900 and set it up on tmobile. I was seeing a enter sim unlock code prompt and no connection to the network so I'm flashing. Any other suggestions?05:54
jocjust flashed to 1.3 global - do I need to use the usa release?05:56
pupnikare you in germany?05:59
jocI'm in the states.06:00
pupnikwhich states?06:00
jocwashington, idaho, utah, california06:00
joci'm going to try the us version06:02
pupniki think you need to use the german release06:02
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jocwhy is that?06:02
pupnikcause deutsch is cool06:02
pupnikand you can learn a new language06:02
jocI'd learn German if I could get the phone to connect with tmobile.06:02
jocwhat exactly does "enter code for unlocking SIM card" mean?06:03
jocSeems a bit weird to me. I just bought this phone used from Amazon.06:03
pupniki am not sure06:06
pupniki think the phone can be locked to a carrier06:06
pupnikunfortunately the USA is a very bad place for cell phones06:06
jocI'm looking forward to maemo on other phones. =-)06:07
jocI'm flashing to the us release now06:07
* joc wonders if he'll need to reflash when traveling.. ??06:07
pupniksorry i don't have better answers06:08
pupniki think you may need an unlock code06:08
pupnikperhaps you can search the forums06:09
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jocLooks like I need a puk.06:12
joc:)06:12
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ArGGu^^http://www.elisanet.fi/irggu/06:16
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ArGGu^^There is my IRC client website if anyone is interested06:16
ArGGu^^It is not yet in ovi store or maemo extra repositories06:17
ArGGu^^but in the website there is deb for download06:17
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pupnikgames are just a ridiculous power drain on this thing06:32
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lollooI have a pc I built myself that I play games on.06:33
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Sazpaimondoes the power kernel support ipv606:40
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lollooyep06:41
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ArGGu^^If someone happend to download my IRC client http://www.elisanet.fi/irggu/ download again I just found bug and fixed it.08:36
ArGGu^^oh great just found another bug :S08:38
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ArGGu^^and now it is fixed08:44
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Termanagood morning10:29
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Jadehi11:22
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JaffaMorning, all12:17
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achipamorning, all13:15
achipaMohammadAG: heya, about 4.7.2, not really, no significant maemo improvements, 4.7.4 is the one that will be interesting13:16
MohammadAGachipa, so should I revert commits back to 4.7.0 then compile that?13:16
achipahm, if you don't have the exact tag....13:17
MohammadAGbasically, I really need this https://qt.gitorious.org/+qt-developers/qt/x11-maemo/commit/4b7e212918fb43495c44cb7948070a43318138de13:17
achipabecause the SSU one is not really even 4.7.013:17
MohammadAGo_O13:18
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achipatechnically it was 4.7.0 RC13:20
achipaIIRC13:20
achipathough seems not much bugs there luckily13:21
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achipaMohammadAG: but the bottom line is, are you compiling gitorious sources, or something from maemo.org/nokia ?13:22
MohammadAGachipa, gitorious13:22
MohammadAGI need a source with git history, not sure if Nokia's sources from the repos includes the .git dir13:22
achiparight13:23
achipain that case I would try 4.7.213:23
achipathere is a slim chance that we might see a few regressions13:23
achipaI remember seeing some apps actually relying on buggy behaviour but can't remember what it was for the life of me...13:24
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MohammadAGachipa, there should be no ABI breaks right?13:25
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achipaemphasis on should13:25
MohammadAGalso, I should rename qt4-experimental to qt4-maemo5 right?13:25
achipain theory Qt is binary backward and forward compatible13:26
achipaNOOOO !!!!!13:26
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achipaMohammadAG:  *-maemo5 qt packages should have never been named like that13:26
MohammadAGqt4-x11?13:27
MohammadAGcause that's what the default source package is called13:27
achipayes, I'd stick with that13:27
achipaexperimental in another thing again13:27
achipa(we won't be seeing interest in experimental until QtQuick 1.1 IMHO)13:28
achipayou can use the libqtm-11 packages as a base for mobility13:29
achipaMohammadAG: though I might have not pushed all my mods... /me adds a todo item13:30
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MohammadAGachipa, mobility can be upgraded outside the SSU though right?13:31
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achipanope, it's a SSU package (because of Ovi, blah, blah)13:35
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Theon144hey, where does openssh server on fremantle keep it's logs?13:38
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Theon144I ask because I have a problem with key authentication - I copied my dsa public key to the n900 (~/.ssh/authorized_keys) and it still says "Permission denied"13:40
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MohammadAGundefined reference to `gtk_widget_get_visible' <-- thoughts anyone?13:44
ShadowJKit logs through syslog. Syslog goes to /dev/null. If you install syslogd package from sdk/tools repo, and reboot, logs appear in /va/log. Uninstall syslogd after youamve resolved the issue, so that logs don't fill up diskspace.13:44
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Theon144ShadowJK: thanks13:49
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divanany thoughts why N900 sometimes reboots while unpacking large archives (tar.gz > 100MB)?14:18
divanEven if no reboot occured device becomes really laggy. Swapplube is installed and activated, and it does help a little but not too much.14:18
divanThe archive itself is on the vfat partition and unpacked to the same partition.14:20
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MohammadAGoverclocked?14:31
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ShadowJKdivan, wanna try these settings? 1 > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_background_ratio, 40 > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_ratio, 3000 > dirty_expire_centisecs, 5 > page-cluster, 10 > swappiness, 100 > vfs_cache_pressure, 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests, 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests14:36
ShadowJKuntested, because I don't like reboots14:36
ShadowJK:P14:36
divanShadowJK, thanks, I'll try to play with it.14:37
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ThreeMis it possible to manage upnp-av devices from N900? Zhaam looks good, but misses a lot of items from my music libary15:35
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divanIs there any non-GUI tool to configure tracker? Except sed.16:05
* DocScrutinizer never pondered to *uninstall* syslogd16:09
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MohammadAGdivan, perl! But seriously, nope, not that I know of16:14
MohammadAGyou can check out these16:14
MohammadAGtracker-files        tracker-meta-folder  tracker-query        tracker-services     tracker-status       tracker-unique16:14
MohammadAGtracker-info         tracker-processes    tracker-search       tracker-stats        tracker-tag16:14
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I just echo "" > /var/log/syslog every once in a while16:14
* DocScrutinizer too16:15
DocScrutinizernah I even just ">/var/log/syslog"16:15
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divanMohammadAG, the tracker-utils does other things. Ok, I think I'll do it with QSettings, the format is pretty much .ini.16:18
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MohammadAGdivan, keep in mind, QSettings will freak out with comments, which tracker.cfg has16:20
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divanMohammadAG, hmm thanks.16:22
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MohammadAGdivan, to see what I mean, open the file with QSettings, do QSettings::sync() or write some value, all # will be changed to some numbers (UTF-8 code?)16:23
divanMohammadAG, yeah, I've got it. You're right, it will rewrite the original file. Not sure I want to do this with tracker cfg. But I have to find easy and reliable way to add one dir to NoWatchDirectory (if not added already).16:24
divanPerhaps sed is the best choice.16:25
MohammadAGdivan, looks at mceledpattern16:26
MohammadAGit edits /etc/mce/mce.ini to include new patterns, but the concept is the same16:27
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divanI guess that's it. sed  -e '/NoWatchDirectory/s:$HOME\/MyDocs\/Games;::' -e '/NoWatchDirectory/s:$:$HOME\/MyDocs\/Games;:' /home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg16:28
divanMohammadAG, thanks for the tips, I'll take a look.16:28
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: (QSettings will freak out...) WUT? I start to learn to hate Qt more every single day16:34
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it doesn't expect comments16:34
DocScrutinizerI don't expect real humans in that development dept16:35
DocScrutinizerthey must have outsourced development to next zoo16:36
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MohammadAGxD16:37
RST38hMoo, folks16:39
DocScrutinizermoo16:39
RST38hWhat? Qt Hate setting in? =)16:40
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DocScrutinizeryep16:42
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DocScrutinizerseems every other day there's some new OMFG *facepalm* shit surfacing16:43
RST38hThe important thing is to fix it though16:44
DocScrutinizerit feels like Fukushima: Nokia burrying whole maemo/meego under a sticky layer of Qt shit to neutralize it16:44
RST38hI think Qt people (thiago et al) are active at #meego, so you can complain there =)16:44
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DocScrutinizerI'd not know where to start. having a generic filesensor object class that POLLS isn't sth you can discuss about. There's just one thing you can do: fire the whole dev team and move the source to dev(null16:45
DocScrutinizerit's clearly more effort to proofread the whole mess and correct it, than to start new from scratch with a team that has a clue16:47
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divanwhat's default file ownership for /home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg ? I rewrited it under root, can someone check?16:49
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DocScrutinizersystem architecture and linrary development is like hw EE: it MUST be correct prior to mass production/deployment, otherwise you have to live with shit for ever. That's clearly a point where app devels regularly fail each and every time16:50
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SpeedEvil-rw-r--r--    1 user     users        2867 Mar 30  2010 tracker.cfg16:50
SpeedEvil divan16:50
divanSpeedEvil, thanks!16:51
RST38hDoc: Talk to thiago, in as politically correct terms as possible16:51
RST38hDoc: Pick a few typical mistakes, and provide examples of why these APIs will not work16:52
DocScrutinizerdivan: I hope you're not planning to publish something that's going to delete all comments from that config, just to make it work with some BS in Qt?!16:52
RST38hPoint it out to him that once this crap solidifies, it will stay solid, making developers look elsewhere (direct DBus calls, etc)16:52
divanDocScrutinizer, no, don't worry. :)16:53
DocScrutinizerRST38h: you're right, but I'm extremely poor at those tasks16:53
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: btw each time I tried to raise the topic (or a similar class of topic) at #meego, the answer of the self-nominating gods of meego had been "wait until V1.0 rolls out (some months), then you're free to provide patches"17:00
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: ...so not even getting next to the elementary problem that is "you CAN NOT patch a fubar system architecture, you CAN NOT patch a fuckedup library API"17:01
DocScrutinizerthat's why I started to hate meego, and that's where I start to hate Qt even more since a few days, as it intrudes and spoils our relatively nice maemo biotop17:04
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GAN900It does everything in its power to discourage people who disagree with things from participating.17:07
DocScrutinizer""sorry acme-coder, your app is really really nice, with a good concept, well designed UI, and all. But alas you used QtMobility and that renders your whole app useless. Thanks for your effort improving maemo user experience so far, we have to ask you to do nasty shit now to work around all the glitches in the Qt et al toolset""17:07
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Corsaclooks like it really was a good idea to switch to rpm and qt ;p17:10
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, actually, Qt is nice, Qt Mobility, not so sure about that17:15
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: original trolltech team been extremely gifted talented young guys with a clue about how to implement a complex set of objects in a consistent manner. Seems things have changed a lot, probably since Trolltech became Nokia17:21
DocScrutinizeralso QtMob is way more low level and hw depending, spoiling the abstract world of Qt devels17:22
DocScrutinizers/spoiling/tainting/.17:23
DocScrutinizerat least that's my take on it17:24
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DocScrutinizeror in short terms: kernel and hw aren't object oriented17:25
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DocScrutinizerfor the polling_the_proxswitch (filesensor) issue: they could have integrated kevents netlink socket concept into their signal&slot thing. But only if they whould understand about it, at least ever heard about it, were aware about nasty aspects of polling...17:28
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RST38hDoc: Well, even when talking to these people correctly, the chance of getting things changed is still close to nil17:34
RST38hDoc: BUT, nothing prevents us from trying17:34
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DocScrutinizeryes17:34
RST38hMeanwhile: http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/02/qualcomms-1-5ghz-dual-core-msm8660-destroys-the-competition-in/17:34
DocScrutinizermeh17:34
RST38h(notice that it is not Quallcomm against TI, but Quallcomm's 3D chip against PVR)17:35
RST38hDoc: What I kinda dislike about Qt people is the high-nosed approach to comments17:35
DocScrutinizerI'm done with trying, as I explained above. "wait, then provide patches" isn't any option for me. Not even a basis to start a discussion (probably stated exactly to achive this - stop any discussion)17:35
RST38hDoc: They easily fall into good-object-oriented-design discussion and start rolling around there, on their own mainly17:36
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RST38hMaybe just needs to be better explained17:36
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RST38hThis is not something fixable with a patch. It is an architectural issue.17:37
DocScrutinizermy point17:37
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DocScrutinizerI tried in vain to discuss this when it came to sensorfw and how to deal with exactly this polling_vs_IRQ-driven issues and decisions. Answer: "wait, then provide patches"17:38
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RST38hLet us catch thiago next week17:40
RST38hOr someone else from the team17:40
Macerhaha17:40
DocScrutinizerthe most disclosing statement been "we need to start *somewhere* and we need to roll out some stuff _quickly_. We can not afford to discuss system architecture right now" (OWTTE)17:40
RST38hI think it is possible to persuade him that they need to AT LEAST discuss it a bit, until it is too late17:41
Macersounds about right17:41
RST38hThe direction of discussion may not be what you are expecting though17:41
pupniksometimes it's hard to make people understand the problem17:41
RST38hBTW, the sensors poll stuff is going on since Maemo5 APIs17:41
Macerpupnik: honestly. that exact reason is why open src fails on closed devices17:42
Maceryou can't get fired17:42
RST38hAt that time, I got a response from Nokia guys that these low level APIs are done by platform (?) people who say this is the only way they can expose them17:42
Macer:)17:42
pupnikon the other hand, maybe you don't understand their constraints.17:43
RST38hBasically, to do all that signals stuff, you either have to poll at the platform level, OR have some way to set up interrupts17:43
DocScrutinizerRST38h: MUHAHA. Ok they might have been right sometime around <200617:43
RST38hI suspect that they are either unable or unwilling to set up interrupt handlers for all this stuff17:43
RST38hplatform-level polling will obviously kill your battery17:44
DocScrutinizerwell, seems at least lis302 driver DOES set up a correct standard sysfs with kevent17:44
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DocScrutinizerbut this one (written by Nokia) isn't good enough for meego, as is the (slightly better I heard) lis302 driver from OM. Instead they use a "upstream" (WTF?!) lis3lv02 or similar driver in meego, which is clearly designed to service a wired joystick and has no idea about proper exploiting IRQ capabilities of lis302/N90017:47
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RST38hDoc: Won't Stskeeps be the person to address this?17:48
RST38hAnd the Nokia guys who have not pushed their driver upstream?17:48
DocScrutinizerbeen there, done that... through with it17:48
RST38hok17:48
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Macerheh17:49
DocScrutinizerit's not about this one driver. It's about a mindset aware of the design principle basics. See filesensor in Qt, exact duplicate of the sensorfw/lis302 driver thing17:49
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Macerthere is always option b... make your own phone17:50
Macer:)17:50
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RST38hDoc: Well, they did not think about it too much =)17:50
RST38hMacer: He already has, it did not work =)17:50
DocScrutinizerwhole meego folks are designing like a handheld is a small desktop with unlimited CPU grunt and battery capacity from a mains cable17:51
DocScrutinizerRST38h: exactly17:51
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DocScrutinizerand they don't like to get called out on it now. "We'll deal with that later"17:51
DocScrutinizerapp coder attitude17:52
RST38hDoc: Weeeelll... You know, it is primarily designed for Atom-based SoCs...17:52
DocScrutinizerthey haven't got the idea you CAN NOT patch system architecture17:52
RST38hThey have.17:52
RST38hYou just have not explained well enough.17:52
DocScrutinizerthey haven't! when I asked where to find a whitepaper about design principles and guidelines like "Do NOT poll (and how this affects things like sensorfw)" they didn't even answer17:54
DocScrutinizer(whitepaper related to meego foundation, not a generic one)17:55
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DocScrutinizerMacer: RST38h (it didn't work) of course it did, and still does. It just doesn't sell17:56
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DocScrutinizerMacer: and NB the N900 hw is excellent17:57
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DocScrutinizerMacer: there are guys that build "our own phone" software. see FSO, SHR, #openmoko-cdevel et al18:00
* RST38h starts giggling18:00
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Macer:)18:02
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: compare SHR-N900 with meego-handheld-ux/arm, then you'll stop giggling. At least when you consider those are like 8..15guys working on porting SHR to like 5 different platforms, while meego-arm team is what? several dozen? even paid by companies?18:03
ruskieany link for SHR-N900? and will it actually be usable?18:05
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RST38hNever.18:05
RST38hNeither will Meego-N900 though, I guess18:06
DocScrutinizerbut that's probably the big advantage of SHR/FSO team. they are few, and even so I'm not an active participating devel they listen when I rise a topic, and decisions are made based on common sense18:06
ruskieI thought the whole point of the nokia developer edition effort is to get a usable meego on the n90018:06
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MacerRST38h: hahahaha18:08
Macerruskie is one of the crazies18:09
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Maceronce ms got their claws into nokia you can kiss anything nokia makes that was good... goodbye18:09
Maceralthough there hasnt been many things good that came out of nokia since the early 2000s18:11
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DocScrutinizerruskie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkWbb_BetI&feature=related SHR running on N900. State as of 6 months ago18:12
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DocScrutinizerNB I'm not stating it had a better UI or whatever. Just saying there are projects that perform better than meego, on a conceptual level18:13
ruskieplenty of those around18:15
khorben_and soon hackable:1 too18:15
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ruskiehmm shr looks interesting UX wise18:19
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DocScrutinizerruskie: enlightenment & illume based (whatever that means :-D )18:29
DocScrutinizerbasically a lot of that stuff is from rasterman18:30
ruskiealways good18:30
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DocScrutinizerruskie: the major difference probably is: it's targeted at bringing true linux to handheld users. Not - like maemo and even more meego - bring handheld to windoze lusers while exploiting the benefits of a free-as-in-beer OS18:43
RST38hSony CEO May Have Inadvertently Revealed iPhone 5's 8MP Camera18:43
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tank-manwhy is sony making press releases about apple products?18:44
DocScrutinizer<yawn>18:44
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RST38htank: ran out of their own18:45
MohammadAG8MP?18:45
DocScrutinizer8mp in a slim phone. Can't pan out, as we discussed just yesterday here18:45
RST38hI think they supply the camera units18:45
RST38hDoc: Enter Nokia E718:45
RST38hDoc: With a fixed focus camera that can't read barcodes =)18:46
DocScrutinizereh?18:46
* RST38h does not use phone cameras that much, but has to admit that E7's unit is bad even by his very low standards18:46
DocScrutinizerthe ever-higher-numbers hype is such a brainfart thing, for CPU clock freq as much as for camera mp18:47
RST38hThe photo/video editing software Nokia ships on these Symbian^3 phones is pretty damn nice though18:47
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RST38hDoc: also see screen resolutions.18:47
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DocScrutinizerfor CPU you want higher MFLOPS etc, not higher clock. For camera you want larger sensor area for beter pictures, not 57mp with a plastic lens size of a pinhead, and a sensor area of 6mm^218:50
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DocScrutinizerwonder why the N900 front cam is so damn poor quality? even with a mere 640*480? Simply because it's so damn small, it has to be so small to fit into the screen housing. This causes small sensor area, which in turn yields poor sesitivity (you need much light), and still gives lots of noise. You easily could build such a small cam with like 10mp, but it's utterly useless, even making things worse, as area per pixel gets much lower18:54
ruskieI really wish they were to limit MPs to 8 and just increase the dynamic range18:57
MohammadAGI still don't get how the iPhone 4 gets quite good pics18:58
MohammadAGand I don't get why the f it has two mics18:58
ruskiestereo recording18:58
MohammadAGnope19:00
MohammadAGat least I don't think it does19:00
MohammadAGsince one mic was broken, but audio recording went fine19:00
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: (2 mics) ambient noise cancellation19:01
RST38hMohammad: They are not good pics19:02
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: (good pics) they use extremely long shutter times, and combine the partial pictures taken to compose something not too shakey - that's my take on it19:02
RST38hMohammad: What iPhone does is a bit of cheating. It "colors" its pics into vidid colors and does some more clever preprocessing19:02
ruskieso basically like everyone else19:03
RST38hMohammad: This way, they become optimized for viewing on small screens or publishing on websites19:03
RST38hMohammad: But try printing one like you do with a normal digital photo, and you will see that it is not19:03
RST38hOr at least try zooming at it =)19:03
DocScrutinizeryeah, where's those 5mp then? :-P19:04
DocScrutinizerBS19:04
RST38hThere was a nice comparison with someone making a picture of some London street with iPhone and aNokia19:04
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RST38hiPhone picture was brighter, had brighter colors with the warm yellowish tint19:04
MohammadAGheh19:04
RST38hNokia picture was gray and sad looking19:05
MohammadAGHDR doesn't work on the iPhone 419:05
RST38hSo they argued for ever and ever until some Londoner said "whaddayawant? it is *really* that sad and grey here!"19:05
MohammadAGtake a photo of someone with the sun in the background, they'll be "black"19:05
DocScrutinizerRST38h: LOL -point set and match19:05
Corsac+game19:06
RST38hMohammad: also see this nice artefact: http://zeitgeistinapetiole.wordpress.com/2009/01/17/propeller-photo-taken-with-iphone/19:07
RST38h(comes from Apple saving money on that camera)19:07
DocScrutinizerexactly what I meant by "they combine partial pictures"19:08
DocScrutinizerreally funny that one19:09
DocScrutinizerthat's what happens when higly evolved postprocessing fails on the assumtions taken about what the cam looked at19:10
mtnbkrhey everyone... Just got my N900 back from repair (USB/charger connector broke loose)   During the time just before I shipped it, the intermittent connectivity cause the flash and my 8GB microsd card to become corrupted.   I fixed the flash by flashing N900 back to defaults and restoring from a backup,  but the microsd is corrupted.  How can I partition microsd (I have no external microSD reader)19:10
DocScrutinizerumm19:11
mtnbkrfdisk is not present on device, but sfdisk is19:11
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DocScrutinizerfdisk also doesn't really help here19:11
DocScrutinizerneither soes sfdisk19:12
DocScrutinizeryou need to mkfs, to format the disk/card19:12
mtnbkrright... Is it possible the microsd is damaged beyond repair?19:12
DocScrutinizerpossible19:12
DocScrutinizerbut maybe unlikely19:12
DocScrutinizermost simple way afaik is to erase the first few blocks, then reinsert it and you'll get the option to "format card" in filemanager19:13
mtnbkrhmmm,   I was going to mkfs.vfat  the whole card, but thought it neede to have 1 vfat partition, and not the whole 'device' be vfat.19:13
DocScrutinizeryou might try if this option is already there right now19:13
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: hmmm... ok19:13
mtnbkryeah, when I insert the card, I get a yellow banner something like "memory card corrupted"19:14
mtnbkrso I have nothing to lose19:14
DocScrutinizeropen filemanager, see what context menu shows19:14
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: yes, you usually want one partition rather than superfloppy format19:16
mtnbkrMemory card/    "Memory card format unsupported"19:16
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DocScrutinizermtnbkr: as long as the card shows up in filemanager, you should probably see "format" in context menu of the card (click&hold)19:18
DocScrutinizerit starts to get tricky if the card doesn't show up at all19:19
mtnbkrAHHH!    I never saw nor thought of that... trying now... Thanks19:19
DocScrutinizeryw19:19
mtnbkrHmmm... a yellow banner flashed "formatting memory"  but it goes away quickly... should there be any other indication, like a % complete status?19:21
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MohammadAGformatting shouldn't take time19:22
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MohammadAGanother closed source component down the drain, https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/maemo-statusmenu-fmtx19:23
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DocScrutinizer\o/19:23
DocScrutinizeris that a .so plugin?19:24
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mtnbkrarg... it still shows up as "Memory card format unsupported"  when I try go into it using filemanager19:24
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MohammadAGyeah19:24
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MohammadAGqwerty12 rewrote it last year, I added some configuration options and got rid of my old system()-filled edits19:25
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DocScrutinizermtnbkr: remount it (i.e. open and close battery cover)19:25
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MohammadAGalso, check dmesg19:25
mtnbkrwell, in a shell, dmesg shows I/O errors when I attempt the format from the filemanager19:25
MohammadAGmaybe the card's dead?19:25
DocScrutinizeryup19:26
mtnbkrI think so.19:26
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mtnbkrit is very new actually.19:26
mtnbkrdang.19:26
DocScrutinizerlast resort: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1 bs=1M count=<size-of-card-in-MB>19:26
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DocScrutinizerplease doublecheck that command, it comes without any warranty, neither explicit nor implied :-)19:27
steve___What is the name of the phone app in maemo?19:27
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: hah  I did that (almost) already... didn't do the whole card though... what've I got to lose... here goes. :)19:27
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MohammadAGheh, I have a 4 year old 16GB microSD that's working fine, a 3 month old 4GB one died on me19:27
MohammadAGrtcom-call-ui19:28
mtnbkrno, that looks OK19:28
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IR1095olaa19:29
IR1095hellow19:30
steve___MohammadAG: Is there any way to increase the speaker volume?  I can barely hear people if I'm not using a BT headset.19:30
IR1095there is a beautiful guy heree19:30
IR1095i need a guy19:30
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IR1095hot guay19:30
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer19:30
MohammadAGno that I know of19:30
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b IR1095!*@*19:30
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MohammadAGdamn that was fast DocScrutinizer19:31
DocScrutinizerhah19:31
steve___Must have hit a nerve  ;)19:31
MohammadAGbut it needs a guy19:31
DocScrutinizerI'm a better bot than that lousy spam script19:31
steve___ha19:31
DocScrutinizeractually:19:32
DocScrutinizer[2011-04-02 18:30:00] <IR1095> hellow19:32
DocScrutinizer[2011-04-02 18:30:07] [Whois] IR1095 ist ~ircap8@154.Red-79-148-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net (IRcap[8.2] • www.ircap.com)19:32
steve___Does anyone else find it difficult to hear ppl?  Now that more and more ppl are starting to use voip I'm finding it a bit of a problem.19:32
MohammadAGI find it weird how if I move the device up/down 1cm volume is greatly decreased19:34
MohammadAGanyway, I'm usually using a headset while calling19:34
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DocScrutinizersteve___: try amixer19:41
MohammadAG75 files to upload in the next CSSU update :S19:42
MohammadAG= 48 new packages19:42
DocScrutinizererr alsamixer -c019:42
DocScrutinizero/19:43
DocScrutinizerbbl19:43
steve___DocScrutinizer: PCM is 10019:46
steve___I'll fiddle with the other levels.19:46
DocScrutinizerdo during call. Don't miss on resetting each one to original level when it isn't the right one19:47
DocScrutinizeryou might want to use amixer (sic!) to get a dump of current state, prior to fiddling with alsamixer19:48
DocScrutinizerl8r19:48
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GAN900Why did Google have to go and make search so bloated and useless.20:12
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derfThe better to show you ads with.20:12
SpeedEvilyou can turn most of theshit off.20:13
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GAN900SpeedEvil, how?20:15
steve___DocScrutinizer: No change.20:17
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SpeedEvilGAN900: If you mean the instant search results.20:20
SpeedEvilGAN900: Setup a google account, login, then set 'search settings'20:22
SpeedEvilyou can turn off instnat search20:22
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ruskieGAN900, or just use scroogle20:24
GAN900ruskie, good plan.20:24
GAN900I hate that they insist on hijacking a bunch of keys20:24
GAN900up/down arrow should go to the start and end of the line on a Mac.20:25
GAN900Not scroll through your inane suggested completions.20:25
kerioGAN900++20:28
keriootoh, cmd+k or cmd+f-tab give you a perfectly standard search box20:28
kerio(not sure if safari has a particular hotkey)20:28
GAN900JavaScript is too much an aberation20:29
GAN900Tired of sites monkeying with my browser.20:29
GAN900It's too bad Firefox on OS X is so uselessly terrible.20:29
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luke-jr|otgGAN900, s/Firefox on //20:35
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GAN900luke-jr, dunno, it works fairly well on Windows.20:36
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Corsacs/on OS X//20:38
kerio¿que?20:39
keriofirefox works perfectly fine here20:39
kerioand if you really want, there's always camino20:39
keriowhich is cute ^_^20:39
GAN900Camino's dead, now.20:40
GAN900Gecko's embedded support is ending20:40
GAN900Besides, sort of defeats the advantage without the plugins.20:40
kerio:(20:40
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MohammadAGmv Corsac /dev/null20:45
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MohammadAGFirefox is epic21:01
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jacekowskias in epic slow21:08
jacekowskitbh. new firefox is just opera clone21:08
GAN900Just installed 4 this morning.21:10
GAN900We'll see if I hate it any less.21:10
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MohammadAGjacekowski, I see it more of a chromium clone21:22
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derfThe better to show you ads with.22:43
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: (as in epic slow) Just because I've been in a pub and reading this on xchat-n900 it wasn't first to answer exactly that :-D23:09
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: ?23:10
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: are you talking about my firefox looking like opera comment?23:10
DocScrutinizer[2011-04-02 20:01:05] <MohammadAG> Firefox is epic23:10
DocScrutinizer[2011-04-02 20:08:34] <jacekowski> as in epic slow23:11
MohammadAGactually, it's quite fast23:11
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DocScrutinizernot here, not on a 1.8GHz dual-core :-P23:12
MohammadAG2.4GHz quad core :P23:12
MohammadAGwith some weird Intel turboboost to 2.93GHz stuff23:12
DocScrutinizerso show my sth that's NOT fast on this CPU23:12
DocScrutinizerprolly you'll find few apps to be slow, except a 2 FF running concurrently23:13
Jadei used firefox 3 on a 350mhz pentium 2 with 64mb of ram23:13
Jadeon freebsd23:13
Jadeit was fast23:13
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DocScrutinizerwell, to give some flesh to the bones: i'll start FF *now*23:15
DocScrutinizerand now it opens23:15
DocScrutinizerabout:blank23:15
DocScrutinizerno content to render23:16
MohammadAGI'll do the same23:16
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MohammadAGtime, from ... now23:17
MohammadAGopened23:17
MohammadAGsince I'm lagging like shit on Freenode, that took 4 seconds23:17
DocScrutinizerwell, like 20 here23:17
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DocScrutinizerthat's one of the reasons I still prefer and usually use Konqueror23:18
DocScrutinizereven though it sometimes fails on over-nifty ecmascript shit23:19
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DocScrutinizerand also sometimes reders differently to FF23:19
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DocScrutinizerdevelpers testing their crap on top notch hw should get outlawed. They should get forced to use their own elaborate on a ... well, let's say 300MHz Pentium-II with 256MB, and in case of web-coders on a internet connection via ISDN (64kBd)23:24
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cehtehhehe23:26
* cehteh generally agrees .. while the hw is a bit negitiateable :)23:26
DocScrutinizer~dict negitiateable23:27
infobotcould not find definition for negitiateable23:27
DocScrutinizeraah23:27
DocScrutinizer~spell negitiateable23:27
infobotpossible spellings for negitiateable: negotiable negotiates negotiate negotiated gettable nestable negotiator vegetable ignitable equatable equitable renegotiable negligible inequitable regrettable negatively23:27
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DocScrutinizersorry, tired23:27
DocScrutinizergot distracted by 'negligible'23:29
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DocScrutinizercehteh: sure. I wouldn't require youtube to make their videos run on a 300MHz w/o hw-accel for video, via ISDN. -- At least not without a reasonable preprocessing lag for filling buffers and decoding to a less compue-demanding format23:31
SpeedEvilUmm.23:33
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DocScrutinizerbut it's a shame the friggin flash10 plugin yields sth like 2..3fps on my 1.8GHz Pentium dualcore, just because there's no proper hw-accel for gfx23:33
* SpeedEvil was playing youtube videos just fine on a PII/300 not _that_ long ago.23:33
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: depends. the flash10 has a nice "info" about video format etc, and it seems 320*200 plays just fine here, while more demanding formats blow junks or just get jerky23:35
DocScrutinizerNB some AVI (mpg2?) videos play 'just fine' here, when playback via kafeine et al23:36
* RST38h sacrifices a hamster to the Tentacled One23:36
DocScrutinizereven full screen, and those are not 320*20023:36
DocScrutinizerRST38h: thanks23:36
ShadowJK240p videos are decodable on 300MHz P2 I'd think23:37
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: seems I played youtube on a PII/300 fine when it's been flash8/923:37
DocScrutinizerflash10 seems way worse23:38
RST38hDoc: I do suspect there is something else wrong with your PC, other than CPU specs23:38
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DocScrutinizersis gfx23:38
RST38hDoc: No idea what it is, but flash10 should not behave this way23:38
DocScrutinizerno hw accel23:38
RST38hDoc: Well, gfx probably does not affect flv decompression23:38
RST38hHey, I do not have hw accel either and they all play23:39
DocScrutinizernfc23:39
RST38hHaving said that, SiS graphics hw is freaking shit, get rid of it, buy a normal laptop =)23:39
DocScrutinizersend money!23:40
* RST38h sacrifices another hamster23:40
RST38hDoc: I have an Asus Digimatrix (P4@2GHz with SiS gfx and other crap thrown in). It has no problems with flash1023:40
ShadowJKI'm not sure, but I think flash tries to use 3D GPU for hw scaling instead of Xv. Partially because of the way flash is designed, it adds whatever crap the author of the flash player (as in .swf) in RGB colourspace, so for flash to use Xvideo, it would have to do 2 colourspace transforms in software, which is something like doubling the CPU required for decoding23:41
RST38hDoc: Also plays 720p Xvids, but chokes on the .mkv crap23:41
ShadowJKSo it probably stumbles on the Sis gpu not being able to handle that heavy (ab)use of 3D :-)23:41
RST38hShadowJK: Color space transforms are kinda cheap compared to decoding though23:41
ShadowJKRST38h, not really23:42
RST38hShadowJK: I do them all the time, unless it is something convoluted, they are about the same as a buffer copy23:42
ShadowJKYeah, that's the problem.23:42
RST38hWhen calling Sis thing "GPU", always use quotes =)23:42
DocScrutinizerheh, this is probably UMA23:43
DocScrutinizerD-:23:43
ShadowJKIIRC when MPlayer eliminated one extra memcpy() in the video decode path, CPU requirements for DVD went from P3-500 to P3-300 or something like that23:43
RST38hShadowJK: Dunno, sounds unlikely23:44
DocScrutinizeryeah, sounds like an accurate analysis of flash10 on cheap SiS gfx hw23:44
RST38hShadowJK: I have found that buffer copies do indeed suck, but not as much as other pipeline parts23:44
RST38hShadowJK: Scaling, especially generalized one, sucks big time. Color merging and alpha-channeling in software also suck23:45
ShadowJKRST38h, basically as a 16x16 chunk was decoded, it was output directly to graphics card's YV12 memoryspace from CPU cache23:45
RST38h2xSAI sucks like crazy, and it is difficult to optimize unless you have special hw buffers for storing previous/next scanlines.23:45
ShadowJKAnd also copied to a buffer for use as reference to decode next frame23:45
ShadowJKGeneric colourspace transforms back and forth blow away caches and push bandwidth requirements up23:46
RST38hShadowJK: sounds harmless23:46
DocScrutinizerRST38h: you had some fun time at #qt-mobility ?23:46
RST38hWeeelll, as you are already processing the whole frame, you can kiss your cache good bye :)23:47
ShadowJKMy Sempron3100 with Sis graphics was so memory starved, that using an optimized memcpy() made Sis framebuffer drop pixels :-)23:47
RST38hDoc: Nah, it is weekend, and I do not think we will get anything useful there23:47
RST38hDoc: But, if you feel like trolling 'em, why not... =)23:47
RST38hReally need to find someone responsible for Qt overall arch and pitch your point of view to him23:47
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DocScrutinizerit might be surprising, but actually I don't take fun in trolling23:47
RST38hDoc: But, sooner or later, you will!23:48
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RST38hAuthorities have captured a 74-foot camouflaged submarine  nearly twice as long as a city bus  with twin propellers and a 5-foot conning tower that, with a crew of four to six, has a maximum operational range of 6,800 nautical miles on the surface, can go 10 days without refueling and was probably designed to ferry cocaine underwater to Mexico.23:49
GAN900DocScrutinizer, liar! :P23:49
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ShadowJKAlright, benchmark of decoding a 61 second XVID clip on my C2Q 9550, to YV12: 0.386s  .. Decoding+transform to RGB32: 0.790s23:51
ShadowJK(no video output, just decoding)23:51
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emhello friends23:53
RST38hHmm, FUkushima continues delivering.23:53
ShadowJKThis is a bit silly test on C2Q, because the monstrous CPU cache fits over 40 frames :-)23:53
emwhat is the state of maemo as of right now?23:53
ShadowJKem, what do you mean23:53
RST38hem:dead.23:53
emi hear bad rumors in other channels. Im hoping that they aren't true.23:53
ShadowJKYeah that's a pretty good summary :-)23:53
emnooooooooooo :(23:54
ShadowJKWell, Nokia hasn't worked on Maemo for like a year or so23:54
RST38hUnless you count Harmattan23:54
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emmaemo is a good thing made by talented good people why are you letting it die?!23:54
ShadowJKno wait, last update was in October wasn't it23:54
ShadowJKem, MeeGo came. And then w7m came.23:55
DocScrutinizer*burp*23:55
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕23:56
DocScrutinizerem: zombies are immortal23:56
DocScrutinizerem:23:56
DocScrutinizer~cssu23:56
infobotit has been said that cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU23:56
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ShadowJKfail: GSM dit-dit-dat-dit can be heard on N900 movie recording23:58
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