IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-02-25

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* SpeedEvil wishes there was acompressor option on the speakers		00:01
toresbe	pupnik: it's a remote-control-N900-by-SMS app.	00:02
pupnik	toresbe: COOL	00:03
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toresbe	It's fairly neat, yes. But I'd like to be able to suppress the SMSes from making it to the UI.	00:04
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javispedro	wtf	00:06
javispedro	why does the Dell configurator tell me that "BIOS: Internal Bluetooth Set To Enabled" costs 5€?	00:06
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kerio	because you still haven't uninstalled it	00:08
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javispedro	I mean their web shop one	00:08
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pupnik	toresbe: that's a must-have (surpressed to UI)	00:08
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pupnik	toresbe: if one's n900 gets stolen and one wants to control it, it should be private	00:09
javispedro	(I'm _buying_ a PC and they're asking me 5€ to do stuff like "Enable Internal Bluetooth in BIOS", 5€ to "BIOS: Boot First Device set to Hard Drive"	00:09
javispedro	, etc)	00:09
* javispedro hopes this is some mistranslation		00:10
SpeedEvil	If you want to set the BIOS in a non-standard way - you have to pay for it	00:10
SpeedEvil	If you're happy with it as it ships normally, you can leave it	00:10
SpeedEvil	AIUI	00:10
lcuk	javispedro, that would presumably require opening the box, powering it up, sitting there pressing buttons etc	00:10
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* javispedro finds plenty of alternative cheaper ways to do that... but hey...		00:11
chx	javispedro: YOU can	00:11
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chx	javispedro: i bet there are a number of Dell customers (they would be the typical Dell customers) who have no idea.	00:11
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* javispedro sighs		00:12
javispedro	and for a few minutes I was thinking that mean I wouldn't have the option to turn Bluetooth on by myself :P	00:12
chx	it could mean that too yeah	00:13
BCMM	javispedro: it'll come with a coin slot, and if you bring a Bluetooth device near it, the screen will flash "Insert Coin."	00:13
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* javispedro thinks what BCMM says will come true in the not-so-far future		00:15
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SpeedEvil	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdbuSZVYewg&feature=feedu Software upgradable scope javispedro	00:16
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DocScrutinizer	pupnik: http://www.ownta.com/original-nokia-n81-n900-cell-phone-speaker.html	00:29
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: except you're using paypal, not a coin slot	00:32
pupnik	http://i.imgur.com/9VbG6.jpg check it out! n900 speaker opened!	00:33
DocScrutinizer	M$ is actively pushing that model - lease services (like MS-word) by the minute, or by the line of text	00:33
LjL	nice camera you've got	00:33
BCMM	pupnik: which speaker is that? earphone or stereo?	00:33
pupnik	stereo	00:33
BCMM	wow, it's tiny	00:33
DocScrutinizer	pupnik: you're insane - you killed it	00:34
BCMM	i mean, those are pretty loud	00:34
pupnik	DocScrutinizer: they were 'dead' already	00:35
* DocScrutinizer wonders idly if that nice sharp macro has enough minutiae to make a valid fake fingerprint of pupnik		00:35
lcuk	awesome engineering though in such tiny things :)	00:35
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, it should be lol	00:35
jacekowski	javispedro: that sort of thing happens now	00:35
jacekowski	javispedro: you buy hardware	00:35
jacekowski	javispedro: like FC switches	00:36
jacekowski	javispedro: and it has 16 ports	00:36
jacekowski	but only 8 are working	00:36
jacekowski	you buy code from brocade or whoever manufactured that switch	00:36
jacekowski	type it in	00:36
BCMM	pupnik: so did you blow it up by playing with mixer settings?	00:36
jacekowski	and you have 16 port switch	00:36
javispedro	well, it's still missing the coin slot =)	00:36
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: heh, i like the way you think...	00:36
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BCMM	javispedro: well, at least they're honest about it, unlike artificial processor binning	00:37
BCMM	jacekowski, mishighlighted	00:37
pupnik	BCMM: blew it up playing lectures all day without XPROT speaker protection	00:37
BCMM	javispedro/javispedro conversations always confuse me	00:38
javispedro	BCMM: hey, I do not talk alone THAT often.	00:38
pupnik	but apparently the voice coil is still intact, so perhaps simply heating or something jarred it	00:38
BCMM	javispedro: hah, can't believe i did that...	00:38
BCMM	told you it was confusing	00:38
DocScrutinizer	LOL	00:38
BCMM	pupnik: XPROT?	00:38
luke-jr	how can I reload ~/.rtcomm-accounts/accounts.cfg ?	00:39
BCMM	i'm curious because i want to know if the rumour that you can blow the speakers using only alsamixer is true	00:39
* DocScrutinizer sneaks by the hot punch an throws 200 trips in		00:39
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BCMM	which in turn is because i want to play with alsamixer in order to get sound to come out through the earphone	00:40
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BCMM	since one might occasionally want to listen to internet radio or something like that	00:40
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: believe me, it is	00:40
BCMM	ok	00:41
pupnik	i don't see why they 'broke - the suspension is still ok, the coil is still intact	00:41
BCMM	pupnik: got a multimeter?	00:41
javispedro	The only time I had to get a N900 repaired so far is because a broken left speaker	00:41
pupnik	maybe the insulation on the coil wire broke and now the coil shorts	00:41
pupnik	yes	00:41
BCMM	well, check its resistance i guess...	00:42
DocScrutinizer	meh, I regret I haven't ordered 3 pairs of spare speakers with that bare pcb	00:42
BCMM	probably either burned out a wire, or, like you said, burned out insulation	00:42
pupnik	well the wire looked fine	00:42
DocScrutinizer	...or simply molten glue and coil got outa shape	00:43
DocScrutinizer	s/glue/glue or plastic-support/.	00:43
BCMM	hmmm, is it silent, or does it sound all wrong?	00:44
DocScrutinizer	wires rarely melt on long term 200% overdrive. They blowfuse on surges, like applying 24V from a low-Z battery	00:44
DocScrutinizer	look, plasic melting @200°C, copper malting when? 800°?	00:45
pupnik	hmm	00:47
pupnik	maybe the amplifier on the n900 board is what's dead	00:47
* pupnik reassembled speaker		00:48
BCMM	really, check with a multimeter...	00:48
pupnik	what should i see?	00:48
DocScrutinizer	pupnik: unlikely	00:48
DocScrutinizer	pupnik: 8 ohms +/-	00:49
DocScrutinizer	still won't tell you anything	00:49
DocScrutinizer	get those: http://www.ownta.com/original-nokia-n81-n900-cell-phone-speaker.html	00:49
DocScrutinizer	pupnik: if you hadn't killed them yet, I'd suggest you use an empty 1.5V battery and connect it to the speakers contact springs to see if it clicks	00:50
BCMM	also, not 0-ish or infinity...	00:50
BCMM	(for shorted insulation and burned-out wire, respectively)	00:51
DocScrutinizer	pupnik: reassembling those won't work, you killed them as you can't place the coil concentric to the magnet	00:51
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: for shorted isolation there's just one wind shorted enough to kill it for AC	00:52
DocScrutinizer	and AC is what you use on speakers, usually	00:52
BCMM	"usually"?	00:53
pupnik	DocScrutinizer: right, i figured -- btw those replacements are better than the original i hope.. http://www.ownta.com/original-nokia-n82-e72-e66-x6-n85-cell-phone-speaker.html	00:53
lcuk	pupnik, do the n900 speakers connect in same way as n810?	00:53
pupnik	i haven't opened n810	00:53
lcuk	on the n810 there are little springy things	00:53
DocScrutinizer	meh, what makes you think they fit?	00:53
lcuk	that the speakers just press against	00:53
pupnik	those look exactly the same DocScrutinizer	00:54
pupnik	but maybe the dimensions are different	00:54
DocScrutinizer	you're welcome to test	00:54
lcuk	pupnik, note that people take pictures with toy cars "looking" exactly like real cars on the street!	00:54
DocScrutinizer	FSCKFSCKFSCK people.openmoko.org also down	00:55
BCMM	pupnik: aww, that's cute; somebody thinks repetition is an SEO strategy	00:55
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GeneralAntilles	I hate HDMI	00:56
DocScrutinizer	I hate rootkits for linux boxes	00:57
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javispedro	What I hate most about HDMI is that most monitors will usually think they are being fed input from a TV-thing instead of a PC and either overscan or report they support 480p and/or 1080p only	00:57
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: by the way, I guess you saw http://nokiaplanq.com/ already ? ;)	00:57
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DocScrutinizer	oh cool, timeout on IRC again?	00:58
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pupnik	DocScrutinizer: where did you get a bare N900 PCB?	00:58
DocScrutinizer	nfc	00:58
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pupnik	http://www.ownta.com/compatible-nokia-n900-cell-phone-pcb-board-without-spareparts.html wow	00:58
DocScrutinizer	LOL ROTFL on nokiaplanq	00:59
DocScrutinizer	pupnik: still waiting for delivery	00:59
DocScrutinizer	:-S	00:59
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: AWESOME :-D	01:03
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javispedro	:)	01:03
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chx	pupnik: and how on earth do you use that??? resolder the chips?????	01:05
SpeedEvil	You don't.	01:05
SpeedEvil	It's practically useless	01:05
SpeedEvil	The chances of resoldering on the chips - with a 99.5% good solder-joint rate is about 10%	01:06
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javispedro	http://www.ownta.com/brand-new-nokia-n900-unlocked-cell-phone.html	01:07
javispedro	Brand new N900-coloured N810 WiMax edition!	01:08
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pupnik	heh... wrong pic	01:09
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10096	01:10
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BCMM	that whole site has a really, really spammy feel	01:10
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: so you're working for OpenMokia now!!	01:11
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Psi	anyone tried a 32GB micro sd in their n900 yet?	01:12
Megaltariak	I have one and it works well	01:13
Psi	nice. what brand	01:13
Megaltariak	Sandisk	01:13
Psi	thanks	01:13
lcuk	Megaltariak, neat, did you get it out of necessaity or just because you wanted one?	01:14
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* lcuk has about 3gb left on his n900 so thinking about it		01:14
BCMM	http://www.google.com/images?q=n900 gets it surprisingly wrong	01:14
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Psi	i dont want to wear out the build in flash so moving commonly used/rewritten stuff to microsd is a good idea	01:14
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nid0	BCMM google image search for nokia phones tends to be quite horribly wrong across the board	01:15
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BCMM	also, i think that incorrect ownta pic was nabbed from google image search without checking...	01:15
pupnik	can anyone take-apart a n810 and show us the speakers in it?	01:16
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nid0	the pic I find really astonishing is like 5th searching for the e7	01:16
DocScrutinizer	pupnik: I did, alas people.openmoko.org is down aTM	01:16
nid0	http://www.priceindia.net/mobile/nokia/nokia-e7-price-in-india/	01:16
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Megaltariak	I repartitionned my N900 with 27go /home/ and 2go MyDocs for testing stuff and apps but I still wanted to have space for multimedia/usb storage, so I buyed one.	01:16
nid0	theyve somehow photoshopped a cobbled together mashup of the e7, the n9 prototype, and the n900 all in one	01:17
lcuk	pupnik, doc has an n810 disassembly guide but site is afk atm	01:17
pupnik	DocScrutinizer: so they're very different size than n900 speakers, correct?	01:17
* lcuk is slow tonight		01:18
DocScrutinizer	not afaik	01:18
DocScrutinizer	lemme check local pics	01:18
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pupnik	the volume on n810 was much better and i wonder why	01:19
luke-jr	If anyone ever wants to change default phone account: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=954881#post954881	01:19
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DocScrutinizer	pupnik: much bigger	01:20
DocScrutinizer	round about twice the size	01:21
DocScrutinizer	http://www.google.de/search?q=N810_disassembly/SNC00308.jpg&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8	01:22
pupnik	ty luke-jr	01:23
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luke-jr	pupnik: doesn't work with Babyphone ☹	01:24
pupnik	but what does it mean?	01:24
luke-jr	pupnik: it means you can have Phone use a SIP account by default :p	01:25
pupnik	oh duh - ty	01:25
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pupnik	awesome	01:25
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DocScrutinizer	wow, google cache loading since 3 min, at 49%	01:27
DocScrutinizer	52%	01:27
pupnik	same here at about 0% of pics done	01:27
DocScrutinizer	57	01:27
* DocScrutinizer YAWNS		01:28
DocScrutinizer	MEH	01:28
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DocScrutinizer	http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10097	01:32
DocScrutinizer	pupnik: ^^^	01:33
alterego	Is there an app that can talk at to another handset via bluetooth?	01:34
alterego	I kinda want to read contacts and messages from another phone, using AT ..	01:34
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alterego	Might have to write it myself I guess.	01:34
pupnik	DocScrutinizer: maybe with a dremel i could make space for those :D	01:34
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DocScrutinizer	pupnik: I suggest injecting magnetic fluid to the air gap between coil and magnet of the original ones	01:38
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DocScrutinizer	plus I want royalties of 1.87USD per device for that improvement, for stealing that idea form magnastat and applying it to mobile phone transducers	01:40
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pupnik	DocScrutinizer: fluid doesn't compress like a gas :/	01:43
DocScrutinizer	you mustn't flood the whole speaker with it, just let is settle between magnet and coil, in that 0.1mm air gap	01:44
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DocScrutinizer	air between speaker dome and magnet should vent via a hole in magnet usually	01:45
pupnik	did i mention i got some beautiful planar drivers made in germany - from a reseller in USA?	01:46
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DocScrutinizer	yeah, or place some piezo on that back cover plastic and use the whole area as a surface planaer speaker ;-)	01:47
pupnik	Bohlender Graebener Neo8-PDR	01:48
pupnik	heh	01:48
DocScrutinizer	used with kickstand that should give way better bass	01:48
DocScrutinizer	sitting on desk flat it will make your cam lens come off	01:49
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DocScrutinizer	FSCK, laf 18s, 32s, WTF is wrong with freenode today?	01:50
DocScrutinizer	lag*	01:50
luke-jr	ugh	01:50
DocScrutinizer	~ping	01:50
infobot	~pong	01:50
luke-jr	how do I turn off the stupid kb led flashing in R&D mode again?	01:50
* luke-jr lost all his changes with PR1.3		01:50
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DocScrutinizer	there's some sysnode you need echo 0>foo	01:51
DocScrutinizer	nfc what's been the name	01:51
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DocScrutinizer	lag 5s	01:52
DocScrutinizer	shiiiiit	01:52
DocScrutinizer	pratchett.freenode.net in Rennes, FR, EU.	01:52
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DocScrutinizer	~ping	01:53
infobot	~pong	01:53
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Sc0rpius	~ping	01:54
infobot	~pong	01:54
Sc0rpius	nice	01:54
DocScrutinizer	~ding	01:54
infobot	dong	01:54
DocScrutinizer	~pong	01:54
infobot	~ping	01:55
Sc0rpius	hehehe	01:55
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Venemo	when trying to SSH to the N900, I get "Error: Host key verification failed Please select another viewer and try again."	02:00
Venemo	wft is this?	02:00
pupnik	someone is hacking you	02:02
pupnik	or the N900 got a different IP addresss	02:02
pupnik	yes?	02:03
Venemo	no, I reflashed it	02:03
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* pupnik doesn't know the proper precise answer		02:04
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: there's a config file somewhere	02:04
* luke-jr diffs old and new /etc		02:05
DocScrutinizer	no config file, it's done somewhere in rcs-early or sth	02:05
DocScrutinizer	that file isn't in /etc ;-)	02:05
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: no, I am SURE there is a config file	02:06
luke-jr	aha	02:06
luke-jr	/etc/pmconfig	02:06
DocScrutinizer	oooh	02:07
pupnik	i wish that ownta.com site would give the dimensions for those speakers	02:07
Venemo	solution was to edit ~/.ssh/known_hosts on my laptop	02:07
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DocScrutinizer	ownta.com are fools	02:08
DocScrutinizer	they sell chips like potato chips	02:08
DocScrutinizer	no clue	02:08
Venemo	nah, bye-bye guys	02:08
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: ??	02:08
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: ?? ??	02:08
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: [01:00] <Venemo> when trying to SSH to the N900, I get "Error: Host key verification failed Please select another viewer and try again." ---> [01:07] <Venemo> solution was to edit ~/.ssh/known_hosts on my laptop	02:09
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DocScrutinizer	Venemo: ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null root@192.168.0.202	02:10
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: that's a hack instead of a proper solution, isn't it	02:11
DocScrutinizer	known issue, that friggin known-hosts is supposed to stop MITM attacks, but usually just throws stick at your feet	02:11
Venemo	mhm	02:11
Venemo	okay, thanks DocScrutinizer :)	02:11
Venemo	anyway, I should be sleeping	02:12
Venemo	so good night	02:12
DocScrutinizer	it's meant for a internet where's no dynamic IPs	02:12
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: sleep_ind controls the flashing	02:13
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: exactly, and sleep_ind actually is a GPIO	02:24
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DocScrutinizer	and you can control it via some /sys node	02:24
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pupnik	intel/apple "thunderbolt" connector promises 10 Gbps connections (usb 2.0 = 480 Mbps)	02:25
DocScrutinizer	GPIO162	02:25
kerio	usb always sucked	02:26
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: I prefer to use config :>P	02:26
DocScrutinizer	and afair somewhere in init process, probably in rcS_early or what it's called, I've seen some bootmode cmdline tool asking if R&D is set and doing an according echo 0/1 >/sys/foo	02:27
luke-jr	I probably found this config file by looking at that init process :p	02:30
luke-jr	and seeing that it checks the config	02:30
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aap	how do i change ovi map to mappero? to auto launch from address book.	03:10
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aap	is there a prefered application setup config file?	03:13
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luke-jr	Argh!	04:52
luke-jr	PR1.3 doesn't seem to work with T-Mobile	04:52
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nox-	it does in germany if thats of any help...	04:57
nox-	(i suppose not)	04:57
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DocScrutinizer	how the F is PR1.3 going to break compatibility with a single carrier?	05:33
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DocScrutinizer	also don't you think it's strange there's not been a single report like that I heard of, since errr - when was it PR1.3 was published?	05:34
DocScrutinizer	if an update would render a quarter of the devices in a large area (like USA) inoperable, that for sure would make some more noise	05:36
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jonwil	anyone in the US using a N900 is either going to be using t-mobile or using AT&T GSM	05:39
jonwil	since AFAIK the N900 doesn't do AT&T 3G	05:39
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RobbieThe1st	Hello guys	05:59
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bmidgley_	hey	06:00
RobbieThe1st	So... I never thought I'd ever be asking this, but..: I'm looking for a cheapish Android phone that's easily rooted and works on the T-mobile network. Used is acceptable, hardware keyboard required. Any suggestions?	06:00
RobbieThe1st	(Mind, not for me - I'm keeping my N900)	06:01
bmidgley_	that is heresy	06:01
RobbieThe1st	Yea yea... I know. :( Hopefully, though, a rooted android phone won't be -too- bad - I'm intending to give it to my mom so she can check emails and such on-the-go.	06:03
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bmidgley_	maybe webos will be the best community supported hackable going forward	06:04
jonwil	If it wasnt for the hw keyboard requirement I would suggest the Nexus One	06:04
jonwil	or the Nexus S	06:04
Dassu	... My dad bought a freaking Nokia 5230 when I told him that it would be cool if he had a phone with wlan so I could call him directly by skype....	06:04
Dassu	Needless to say that phone doesn't' have a wlan	06:05
bmidgley_	my main phone is android and it bugs me to no end... pathetic ui	06:05
jonwil	all the Android phones that work with t-mobile and have hw keyboard cant be rooted easily	06:05
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DocScrutinizer	also what's the use of roting for your mom?	06:06
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DocScrutinizer	rooting*	06:06
bmidgley_	webos or gasp, ios would be what I chose for grandma	06:07
DocScrutinizer	fsckng winmo6	06:07
DocScrutinizer	kinda "looks like a computer" UI	06:08
DocScrutinizer	for M$ tainted techno-ignorants	06:09
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DocScrutinizer	heh, I got a Samsung OMNIA here, almost unused. You can get it for... err... probably you get one cheaper next corner	06:10
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DocScrutinizer	dh, hw kbd. So you might be interested in my Eten GloFiish M800 - but that's a real collector's item ;-D	06:16
Sc0rpius	by the way	06:17
Sc0rpius	I just noticed the N8 has all 5 bands in UMTS	06:17
Sc0rpius	that's nice hardware, but terrible software	06:17
DocScrutinizer	errr, all 5 bands?	06:17
Sc0rpius	yes	06:18
Sc0rpius	850/900/1700/1900/2100	06:18
Sc0rpius	in UMTS	06:18
Sc0rpius	3G Network HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1700 / 1900 / 2100	06:18
Sc0rpius	http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n8-3252.php	06:18
Sc0rpius	and it's quad band in GSM as expected	06:19
Sc0rpius	there should be a way to put Maemo in that	06:19
Sc0rpius	:(	06:19
DocScrutinizer	meh, you're talking about that USA rubbish	06:20
Sc0rpius	what exactly is rubbish? the phone? or the bands? hehe	06:20
Sc0rpius	or the country?	06:20
DocScrutinizer	I really wonder how they can call that UMTS	06:20
Sc0rpius	why not	06:20
DocScrutinizer	#2, mayber #3	06:21
bmidgley_	I wrote a helper app that brings geolocation api to maemo, anyone interested in helping to polish it a bit	06:21
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Sc0rpius	I'm not in the USA but at least in the same continent. I get 3 Mbps with my phone in 3G, not bad	06:21
DocScrutinizer	USA was idiotic enough to use GSM bands for UMTS	06:22
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Sc0rpius	then talk about Europe using 900 MHz for voice AND for 3G ?	06:23
Sc0rpius	that was worse!	06:23
jonwil	Australia has a wierd mix of bands, we have 900MHz and 1800MHz for GSM across 3 networks	06:24
jonwil	plus we have one network using 850MHz UMTS and possibly also 2100MHz UMTS (not sure)	06:24
jonwil	and another network using 900/2100	06:24
Sc0rpius	well lemme talk you about my ISP	06:24
Sc0rpius	he started using GSM 900 as voice	06:24
jonwil	and a third network currently running 900/2100 and about to launch UMTS 0n 850	06:24
Sc0rpius	when 3G came, the also installed 3G in 900 MHz, like European ISPs	06:25
Sc0rpius	then there's not enough spectrum, and had to move voice from 900 to 1800 MHz	06:25
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Sc0rpius	but there were phones 900 MHz only, they had to change those for free	06:25
Sc0rpius	it was a total mess, it still is	06:25
DocScrutinizer	http://www.mobileworldlive.com/maps/network.php?cid=280&cname=United States	06:25
* Sc0rpius clicks		06:25
jonwil	Find me a country where the allocation of spectrum for mobile telephony ISNT a nightmare	06:25
jonwil	Every country has a mess of different spectrum	06:26
Sc0rpius	hehe that's true	06:26
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jonwil	now we have one carrier launching LTE on IIRC 850MHz	06:27
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DocScrutinizer	http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Mobile_Telecommunications_System#Duplex-Verfahren http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_System_for_Mobile_Communications#Verwendete_Frequenzen	06:31
DocScrutinizer	the digits are english ;-)	06:31
DocScrutinizer	the ETLAs as well	06:32
DocScrutinizer	so at least in Germany we got UMTS uplink on 1900 (not same as GSM) and downlink 2100	06:35
Sc0rpius	oh that's nice	06:35
DocScrutinizer	no conflicts with GSM	06:35
Sc0rpius	and why your phone works	06:36
DocScrutinizer	GSM here is at 900 and 1800	06:36
Sc0rpius	N900 is 900/2100	06:36
DocScrutinizer	while USA is using 850 1900 and whatnot else, for whatever the particular carrier likes	06:37
Sc0rpius	heh	06:37
DocScrutinizer	see mobileworldlive link above, even AT&T is using same freq for UMTS in USA and for GSM in Costa Rica	06:39
DocScrutinizer	err Puerto Rico	06:39
ShadowJK	Sc0rpius, you imply 3g has no voice ;p	06:39
DocScrutinizer	I do? what makes you think that?	06:40
DocScrutinizer	oops	06:40
* ShadowJK <3 umts 900		06:40
Sc0rpius	I have UMTS 900 in my carrier	06:40
Sc0rpius	and GSM was moved to 1800	06:40
Sc0rpius	but it was initialliy at 900	06:40
DocScrutinizer	GSM is and stays at 900	06:41
Sc0rpius	in your case	06:41
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DocScrutinizer	it's your carrier that invented some new rubbish, and calls that UMTS now	06:41
Sc0rpius	because your carrier was smart enough to get the 2100MHz spectrum	06:41
ShadowJK	gsm+umts at 900, gsm+lte at 1800, umts at 2100	06:41
ShadowJK	here at least :P	06:41
ShadowJK	and now they want lte at 800 or 450 or something too	06:42
ShadowJK	450 currently used by flash-ofdm	06:42
Sc0rpius	In my country 2100 MHz is used by the army and it's not open	06:42
Sc0rpius	so carriers use UMTS @ 900 or 1900 depending on the carrier	06:42
DocScrutinizer	that's a lame excuse	06:42
Sc0rpius	and GSM in 850/900/1800/1900 again depending on the carrier	06:43
ShadowJK	They started umts on 2100 here, it was terrible. The short range of 2100 made it suck so hard :)	06:43
Sc0rpius	yeah UMTS @ 900 is the best	06:43
Sc0rpius	because of the long range	06:43
DocScrutinizer	yeah, UMTS for the poor	06:44
Sc0rpius	I get nice speed, as I said, 3 Mbps and it's stable	06:44
Sc0rpius	I'm happy with it :)	06:44
Sc0rpius	and my N900 last 2 whole days at 3G	06:44
Sc0rpius	(battery)	06:44
* ShadowJK downloaded at 800kbyte/s yesterday, 9-10km from the base station :)		06:45
Sc0rpius	my english is getting worse everyday instead of improving	06:45
Sc0rpius	nice ShadowJK	06:45
DocScrutinizer	carrier needs only 1/10 of BTS, and who cares about battery of MTs is empty 4 times faster, nobody can afford using UMTS for long anyway	06:45
ShadowJK	Looks like carriers aren't that interested in upgrading my local tower though :(	06:46
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ShadowJK	Maybe 50 people live within its range ;p	06:46
DocScrutinizer	just annoying every phone owner on this world has to pay 3 bucks extra for USA idiocy of using bands nonstandard	06:48
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RobbieThe1st	DocScrutinizer: Tell me about it. Not only that, but they make sure to use different bands for each carrier, making it hard to switch between carriers :\	06:50
DocScrutinizer	that's all intentional	06:50
RobbieThe1st	Of course.	06:50
DocScrutinizer	carefully thought and planned	06:50
RobbieThe1st	Doesn't make it -right-. IMHO, the FCC should step in and force them to be inter-operable; I mean, they said that Jailbreaking is legal, so this would be the next logical step	06:51
DocScrutinizer	FCC insisted on the 850/1900 scheme for GSM in USA	06:52
RobbieThe1st	That explains why AT&T/T-mobile are compatible at least.	06:52
jonwil	They should have insisted on a uniform band for UMTS in the US also	06:52
jonwil	instead of the wierd 1700 band t-mobile are using	06:53
DocScrutinizer	and nobody can tell me military isn't ale to tune their walkietalkies and radars down from 900 to 850	06:53
RobbieThe1st	Mind, the military isn't gonna be on the same band as civilian stuff - for good reason	06:54
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DocScrutinizer	in USA they are on a band that 's civilian in rest of this world	06:54
DocScrutinizer	I can't see any other rationale for the 850/1900 instead of 900/1800 in USA	06:55
DocScrutinizer	well, except the secret real reasons to differ from anybody else	06:56
RobbieThe1st	IIRC, I read something about that - US and who was it - England perhaps? - setup opposite bands for military/cvilian.	06:56
RobbieThe1st	So whichever the US had, the other country had em backwards	06:56
DocScrutinizer	which is more about economics than about military	06:56
DocScrutinizer	900/1800 is pretty much worldwide standard	06:57
DocScrutinizer	for GSM	06:57
RobbieThe1st	Of course, these days it should be possible to just make a super-dodeka-band chip that covers every frequency and transmission scheme ever used.	06:57
DocScrutinizer	but it's almost impossible to create a decent antenna for that	06:58
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RobbieThe1st	Could it be possible to make an all-in-one device that handles Bluetooth and Wifi as well, and uses say four antennas to handle it?	06:59
DocScrutinizer	why do you think the worldwide standard is 900/2*900 - it's just do facilitate antenna design	06:59
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RobbieThe1st	Yea, I suppose	07:00
RobbieThe1st	I dunno... is the new LTE 4G or w/e going to all be on the same band?	07:01
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DocScrutinizer	afaik LTE is backwards compatible	07:01
DocScrutinizer	not sure about it though	07:02
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DocScrutinizer	i.e. LTE == UMTS+++	07:02
rtyler	any maemo folks going to SCALE this weekend in LA?	07:02
ShadowJK	and the whole "cognitive radio" thing :/	07:04
RobbieThe1st	Hm... Y'know, the -other- option would be to simply build the radio/antenna into a sim-card-like-device - You'd then be able to use almost any phone with any carrier, in any region	07:05
RobbieThe1st	Course, it'll never happen - Too easy to change carriers :\	07:05
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ShadowJK	like a miniature USB hsdpa modem, except not usb, and not necessarily hsdpa ;p	07:05
RobbieThe1st	Yea	07:05
ShadowJK	It's probably going the other way though	07:07
RobbieThe1st	Heck, make it SD-card compatible; then you can use it in all sorts of current devices and applications	07:07
ShadowJK	apple is working on removing the sim card ;p	07:07
RobbieThe1st	Oh, I'm sure. :\ Then, -no- way to change carriers. Lock down hooray!	07:07
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RobbieThe1st	I have to say once more that the n900's just about the most awesome phone ever. I was able to just download a webm file off youtube, drop it on my n900, and play it with the built in media player quite nicely.	07:20
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ShadowJK	huh, I don't think that's supposed to work	07:35
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RobbieThe1st	ShadowJK: ?	07:43
RobbieThe1st	(Mind, I installed decoders-support or w/e earlier)	07:43
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DocScrutinizer	pupnizzzz: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/	07:52
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slonopotamus	morn	08:01
slonopotamus	https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libnet-smtp-ssl-perl_1.01-2maemo1/i386.build.log.FAILED.txt ideas?	08:03
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slonopotamus	the funniest thing is that it fails in i386 target	08:10
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villager	slonopotamus: probably division by zero	08:19
slonopotamus	villager: thanks, Captain :)	08:20
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villager	slonopotamus: don't know enough perl to look at why, though... (nor do I want to know perl)... was just implying that division by zero is likely to happen on i386 also...	08:21
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slonopotamus	villager: okay, that was scratchbox, again	08:31
slonopotamus	SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE ftw!	08:31
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lolcat	Why don't firefoz have an icon?	08:57
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pupnizzzz	DocScrutinizer: thanks - as i suspected the resonant chamber is also larger	10:23
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pupnik	http://i.imgur.com/3S6ya.jpg heheh sfw	10:30
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RST38h	<yawn>	10:39
pupnik	<yuan>	10:39
RST38h	how much?	10:39
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* jonwil is still going nowhere with his N900 work		11:02
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alterego	jonwil: relax, have a coffee, and do something more productive :P	11:05
jonwil	I am just frustrated that the features I want on my N900 are not possible, like per-contact ringtones or cell broadcast SMS	11:06
pupnik	per-contact ringtones would be appreciated by many people for sure	11:07
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jonwil	hmmm, before I abandon that idea completly, firstly I need to ID which binary reads the ringtone value from the config and plays it	11:07
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pupnik	good plan	11:08
alterego	There are a few good technical reasons why contact ringtones aren't available tbh	11:09
jonwil	what technical reasons would that be?	11:09
alterego	Ringtones are stored as wavs (i think in rootfs)	11:09
alterego	So space requirements are quite large ..	11:09
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jacekowski	other phones can do it	11:09
jacekowski	keep it compressed	11:09
jacekowski	in easy decompressible format	11:10
jacekowski	and mlock decoders	11:10
alterego	jacekowski: other phones aren't the N900	11:10
jacekowski	single decoder*	11:10
jonwil	well let me look up which binaries are involved in playing ringtones	11:10
jonwil	and see how fesable it is to do some changes	11:10
alterego	I'm not saying it's not possible, I can think of several ways to do it, it's just pa performance is somewhat delicate already in regards to calls	11:10
jonwil	if it wasnt for those damn closed-source PulseAudio modules, it would be much easier to solve some of those problems IMO	11:12
jonwil	but all the "good bits" are closed source :(	11:12
alterego	one way would be to make the ke the ringtone a named pipe, then listen on dbus for the incoming call setup and create a gst pipeline to decompress and appsink out to the pipe.	11:12
ruskie	alterego, considering that the ringtone can also be $random file anywhere I don't really see a point...	11:13
RobbieThe1st	Out of curiosity, couldn't we just run say 'mplayer /path/to/ringtone' from a script when there's an incoming call which meets certain criteria? Surely the phone-number's available via Dbus	11:13
ruskie	in that technical reason	11:13
alterego	RobbieThe1st: yes, in theory :)	11:13
RobbieThe1st	'course, if we need wavs, just stick em in MyDocs - Plenty of space there!	11:14
alterego	That is also an interesting idea	11:14
ruskie	my ringtone is mp3	11:14
jonwil	Once I find out which binary plays the rintone, I will know how easy it will be to do something about it	11:14
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ruskie	so don't really see why it needs to be wav or where you got that idea	11:14
alterego	Problem is I think the PA policy will mute that line and use the dialer ..	11:14
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jonwil	mine is MP3 but the phone copied it as wav	11:15
jonwil	and copied it somewhere	11:15
alterego	ruskie: because it -is- wav, generated from whatever file you select.	11:15
RobbieThe1st	ruskie: mp3 gets decompressed to (essentially) a .wav file before being played. a .wav file is raw audio data mostly	11:15
jacekowski	first thing	11:15
jacekowski	get rid of pulseshit	11:15
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ruskie	alterego, really? where does it store it?	11:15
jonwil	I doubt you could drop PulseAudio and not break the system completly	11:15
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jacekowski	RobbieThe1st: have you seen how long it takes for mplayer to load and read something from mydocs if you have something heavy running	11:16
alterego	ruskie: rootfs (i think) it's for performance.	11:16
ruskie	RobbieThe1st, that sounds broken... if it does before playing it...	11:16
ruskie	alterego, where exactly?	11:16
jacekowski	ruskie: it's not broken	11:16
alterego	ruskie: I don't know, google :P	11:16
ruskie	so you just assume then that this is so?	11:17
jacekowski	no	11:17
jacekowski	that file is there	11:17
alterego	I know it's a wav.	11:17
RobbieThe1st	ruskie: No, I mean simply that's how things work on -any- system. The actual DAC takes raw binary data.	11:17
ruskie	yet nobody knows where...	11:17
alterego	I just don't recall where it is ..	11:17
jacekowski	ruskie: we know where	11:17
RobbieThe1st	ruskie: mp3 is compressed. Whether it gets decoded by a specific chip, or on the CPU, it still gets decoded to raw data before being played.	11:17
alterego	And if you're interested, fucking google.	11:17
* alterego goes for a shower		11:18
pupnik	aplay snd.wav is faster loading than mplayer for e.g.	11:18
pupnik	but the named pipe idea is clever	11:18
jacekowski	no	11:18
jacekowski	it doesn't work	11:18
RobbieThe1st	jacekowski: Yea, I suppose. But that's as much a problem of the IO stuff than anything else	11:18
jacekowski	somebody tried it	11:18
jacekowski	RobbieThe1st: io and cpu	11:18
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alterego	jacekowski: really? oh :(	11:19
jacekowski	that's why if we would recompress stuff as mp3 and have decoder running at -19 nice	11:19
jacekowski	and mlock it	11:19
jacekowski	we could do it	11:19
alterego	I was thinking you'd probably have to always make sure there was data available	11:19
pupnik	jonwil is the only guy actually not-bullshitting atm :)	11:19
RobbieThe1st	jacekowski: I say IO's more of a problem cause we have nice(etc) working to prioritize. With the stock n900, I don't think we have anything like that for io	11:19
RobbieThe1st	ionice is - afaik - not installed	11:19
jonwil	the ringtones are stored in /home/user/.local/share/sounds	11:20
jonwil	thats where the .wavs go	11:20
alterego	pupnik: hey! I'm just telling it like it is :P	11:20
jacekowski	as far as i remember nice -19 sets io prio quite high	11:20
jonwil	The ringtone is set in a config file by the tag ringing.alert.tone	11:20
jacekowski	but ionice isnt'a problem	11:20
jonwil	which is referenced in 4 binaries	11:20
jacekowski	it's single syscall	11:20
jonwil	profiles control panel	11:21
jonwil	make that 3	11:21
jonwil	hildon plugins notify sv	11:21
ruskie	hmm interesting solution on how to silence ringtones...	11:21
jonwil	and mediaplayer.launch	11:21
ruskie	it actually symlinks them to silence.wav	11:21
ruskie	and from what I can tell it's all kept on the emmc so don't really see a technical limitation for size...	11:22
pupnik	you know the 'rotating lady' illusion - now you can switch it back and forth at will... http://imgur.com/gallery/2LGKQ (OT)	11:22
RobbieThe1st	Hm... Could we setup a script that - upon recieving a call - basically "pauses" all of user's applications, then plays the ringtone? By preventing other stuff from doing IO/using CPU, we ought to be able to get good performance for that	11:22
alterego	ruskie: fair enough	11:22
alterego	ruskie: I presumed it was on root, if it's emmc than that does reduce the burden	11:23
alterego	It may be possible to symlink different tones before the call pipeline is setup.	11:23
ruskie	yeah	11:23
ruskie	was thinking about that	11:23
ruskie	since that's how ringtoned seems to actually work for silent profile as well	11:23
alterego	There's a lot of dbus traffic whilst incoming calls are setup	11:23
jonwil	so /home/user is on emmc?	11:24
alterego	way before the ringtone gets started	11:24
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alterego	jonwil: yes	11:24
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alterego	Anyhow, shower time, bbiab	11:24
ruskie	it's part of /home where also /home/opt lives	11:24
jonwil	The easy solution is to either ask Nokia for the source code to Hildon-plugins-notify-sv or to reverse engineer Hildon-plugins-notify-sv ourself and make a functional replacement	11:24
jonwil	since thats where the ringtones come from	11:24
ruskie	the big chunk of space is /home/user/MyDocs which is a separate mount	11:25
ruskie	so basically a lot of stuff in /home/user will reduce /opt space as well	11:25
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psycho_oreos	/home/user only has 2GB so yeah its shared between the two (/home/user and /opt)	11:26
ruskie	still don't get it why nokia then provides their own tunes in .aac if in the end it needs to be cached as wav...	11:26
RobbieThe1st	^^	11:26
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RobbieThe1st	ruskie: Cause that's how things work at the chip-level?	11:26
ruskie	RobbieThe1st, you're not feeding the chip the raw encoded file	11:26
ruskie	you do: decoder > devicetooutputto	11:26
ruskie	you know.. like any other system does it on the pc mac etc...	11:27
RobbieThe1st	Exactly. You're decoding it(to wav) before outputting it	11:27
ruskie	RobbieThe1st, no in this case it's PRE-decoded as wav	11:27
ruskie	it's not let's take the mp3... and decode it just now to the audio device	11:27
RobbieThe1st	To save CPU time I'd imagine	11:27
RobbieThe1st	They probably intended it to be decoding on the fly... But ran into performance issues and just cached it	11:28
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jonwil	anyone know anything about libplayback or libprofile or profiled or profile-data?	11:29
jonwil	damn, looks like libplayback (whatever that is) is closed source with no -dev package	11:29
jonwil	oh wait there IS a -dev package	11:29
jonwil	GOOD	11:29
jonwil	looks like every package that Hildon-plugins-notify-sv depends on has a -dev package at the very least	11:30
jonwil	which will help with cloning it	11:30
jonwil	the fact that it has a nokia-binaries x86 package also helps	11:30
jonwil	as x86 is easier to reverse engineer than ARM	11:31
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jonwil	and its high enough up the OS stack that its unlikely to contain different code for x86 vs ARM	11:32
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jonwil	time to warm up the linux box and pull the plugin from my SDK install	11:34
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jonwil	Lets see how hard this is going to be to clone	11:41
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer51: jonwil: Did you manage a wiki page, btw?	11:51
jonwil	for what? dialer? no	11:51
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer51: jonwil: (regarding the closed stuff and who/what/why wanted it open)	11:51
crashanddie	jonwil, what are the advantages of talking to oneself?	11:51
jonwil	I did come up with that wiki btw	11:52
jonwil	tempted to file a bug (and add a wiki entry	11:52
toadpole	hey does the region-specific firmware come with local language support?	11:52
jonwil	related to custom ringtones	11:52
toadpole	on the n900, tha is	11:53
toadpole	*that	11:53
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Jaffa	jonwil: URL for the wiki page?	11:53
* Jaffa would like to send it to Nokia		11:53
Jaffa	bergie: ping	11:54
jonwil	http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant	11:54
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Jaffa	jonwil: thanks	11:54
jonwil	Let me handle this custom ringtone thing first before you send it	11:54
jonwil	let me see if there is already a request for the feature	11:54
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jonwil	unlike, say, rtcom-dialer-ui, I dont think libhildon-plugins-notify-sv is out of the relms of possiblity for Nokia to open source	11:55
jonwil	no bug exists, let me file one	11:56
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tybollt	< crashanddie> jonwil, what are the advantages of talking to oneself?	12:01
tybollt	That way I always know I'm talking to a complete asshole. :-)	12:02
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jonwil	whats the name of the app that lets you edit contacts?	12:07
Jaffa	jonwil: "Contacts"?	12:08
jonwil	found it, the package is osso-addressbook	12:09
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jonwil	ok, there are too many closed-source back end libraries and other things for it to be possible to store the per-contact ring-tone information with other contact details in the address book	12:13
jonwil	plus I cant see Nokia open sourcing the address book backends anymore than they already have	12:13
jonwil	for all sorts of reasons	12:13
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Jaffa	jonwil: The plugin API, or the use of a dummy "account" might make it work?	12:18
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Khertan1	Morning	12:19
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Khertan1	a little gui question ... how to display a list of accounts (which is a set of a 6 parameters ... login, password, host, ... ) in a settings dialog. Put them all in a editable qtreeview ? or did you have better idea ?	12:21
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lolcat	N900 for 535USD, new?	12:21
lolcat	Good deal?	12:21
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jatt	can I get "Angry Birds" for free?	12:22
lolcat	I belive there is a free demo with 10 levels	12:22
ruskie	lolcat, erm.. I can get new full 2 year warranty for 180eur ;)	12:22
jatt	did your n900 screen got scratches?	12:23
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lolcat	jatt: Mine had scratches when I got it	12:23
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jatt	wow	12:24
lolcat	ruskie: A warranty, I am talking of the phone	12:24
jatt	I meant after using it for a while	12:24
lolcat	jatt: Got it cheap, display model	12:24
jatt	I think is unavoidable?	12:24
jatt	oh, and another question, can you clean the screen with the same stuff you clean laptop screens?	12:24
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lolcat	I clean my screen with the stuff I clean windows with	12:25
jatt	lol	12:25
jatt	I mean the n900 screen	12:25
ruskie	lolcat, I meant a n900 with a full 2 year warranty	12:26
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lolcat	jatt: Me too	12:28
lolcat	I clean everything with this shit	12:28
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lolcat	Jif Window cleaner	12:28
jonwil	ok, bug 11983 filed	12:28
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11983 Open source libhildon-plugins-notify-sv	12:28
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jonwil	I dont know if per-contact ringtones will be possible without the dialer and SMS app source (which is what talks to this code)	12:29
jonwil	but its worth looking into	12:29
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jonwil	oh wait I guess our new ringtone thing could register with telepathy and mission-control to pick up all incoming calls and SMSs	12:30
jonwil	including skype etc	12:30
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cos^	does anyone know how to get sound from flite on command line?	12:33
lolcat	ruskie: How can you get that cheap?	12:33
ruskie	lolcat, second hand... ppl buy it with their contract for 180eur then flog it to others from 180-300eur	12:34
ruskie	but yeah... new not used original everything	12:34
ruskie	including warranty	12:34
lolcat	Hmm	12:35
lolcat	I need a drunkphone!	12:35
ruskie	I'm planing on buying one for somewhere in the 180-300 area this year	12:35
jonwil	Jaffa: http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant is updated	12:36
jonwil	with the ringtone thing	12:36
pupnik	ruskie: used worn units sell for 200-260 here	12:36
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ruskie	pupnik, well here they are new in box...	12:37
ruskie	note 180 is the cheapest I saw(and that's for how much they were being flogged by the cellcos)	12:37
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pupnik	in .ru?	12:37
ruskie	slovenia	12:37
ruskie	don't assume based on nick	12:38
Jaffa	jonwil: Thanks	12:38
ruskie	well not really suprised that the 180 eur deal has been sold already	12:38
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ruskie	the next one up after that is 200 for an 8month used... 260 for a new in box with everything	12:40
ruskie	533eur is the full asking price in store	12:40
psycho_oreos	I wonder if it'll be cheaper if I buy one from one of the asian countries, no I'm not thinking about clones but maybe making a deal with the shop owner to buy one and get one free or the second one at some discount knowing that N900 didn't sell like hotcakes :D	12:40
ruskie	400eur is the cheapest new from store I can see...	12:42
ruskie	and that is on sale	12:42
jatt	the thing is a mini computer the price is fair	12:42
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psycho_oreos	the smartphones these days can also function as a mini computer, plus some of them have better hardware than that of found in N900.	12:44
jonwil	Jaffa: So you are going to push those requests to the right people at Nokia and see if they are possible?	12:45
jonwil	Is there anything on that list that doesnt sound like its possible?	12:45
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lolcat	ruskie: That is around 535USD	12:50
ruskie	what is?	12:50
ruskie	400 eur?	12:50
lolcat	Yes	12:50
ruskie	400 Euros = 552.96 U.S. dollars	12:50
ruskie	I guess you could call it a deal	12:51
lolcat	Mine has 5 years warranty!	12:51
ruskie	not manufacturers probably	12:52
lolcat	Country	12:53
lolcat	Wich is bether	12:53
lolcat	They have two attempts to fix an error	12:53
lolcat	if it breaks again I get a refund	12:53
ruskie	erm country?	12:54
lolcat	Norway	12:54
ruskie	also note Which != Wich	12:54
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lolcat	Wich wich is wich?	12:57
ruskie	someone actually uses wich as his nickname and tends to point outh that which != wich	12:58
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ruskie	wich is actually a variant of wick	12:58
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ruskie	while which is what you are looking for	13:00
ruskie	</grammar>	13:00
lolcat	Wick?	13:00
ruskie	www.dict.org	13:01
ruskie	helps ;)	13:01
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* ruskie reintegrated his old n95 as an alarm solution... seems to be having more effect now...		13:04
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lolcat	What I really want is USB support	13:09
ruskie	you mean OTG?	13:11
SpeedEvil	OTG is not USB host.	13:12
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SpeedEvil	USB host is female, USB OTG is transexual.	13:13
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alterego	kinky	13:14
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SpeedEvil	So I suppose the analogy would complete and make the n900 a girl that claimed not to be able to take her strap-on off.	13:16
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jacekowski	rotfl	13:18
jacekowski	thing is that not many people want to deal with trans	13:18
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jatt	you had problems with the micro usb connector? I read it breaks	13:46
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ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/25/microsoft_mozilla_do_not_track/ <-- hmm	13:47
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jatt	just type your password	14:08
jacekowski	jatt: no	14:08
jatt	to unlock it	14:08
MohammadAG	timeless_w7ip, ping	14:08
jacekowski	jatt: phone can be locked	14:08
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MohammadAG	or timeless_office	14:08
jatt	what? where	14:08
jacekowski	jatt: by operator	14:08
Venemo_N900	ruskie: see topleft button in http://i51.tinypic.com/anlwug.png	14:08
Treibholz	has anybody ever got xbmc-potato to work?	14:08
jacekowski	niala1: no public unlock is available at the moment	14:08
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ruskie	Venemo_N900, ahh I have community translation installed...	14:09
ruskie	odd that it calls it SIM unlock	14:09
jacekowski	ruskie: because it's called simlock	14:09
jacekowski	ruskie: it locks phone to sims from specific operator	14:09
niala1	jacekowski: so if it's locked i musn't buy it ?	14:09
jacekowski	niala1: yeah	14:09
jacekowski	niala1: but it's very unlikely that it's locked	14:09
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niala1	I'll burn a candle then to the god of Gsm	14:11
niala1	thank you all	14:11
Venemo_N900	niala1: try it with your sim before buying	14:12
niala1	yep i must think of bring them	14:13
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jonwil	Was the N900 ever sold locked to a particular carrier?	14:22
Venemo_N900	jonwil: I can't account for every carrier that sold it, but I'd say it's likely	14:23
jonwil	That depends on whether the N900 supports the feature in the first place	14:23
jonwil	I havent seen any evidence that it does	14:23
Treibholz	I thought they didn't want to sell it because you can do to much with it.	14:24
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Venemo_N900	jonwil: see http://i51.tinypic.com/anlwug.png or read scrollback	14:24
jonwil	ok, so it does	14:24
Venemo_N900	jonwil: why would there be a "remove operator lock" feature if it didn't support operator locks?	14:24
Treibholz	I have this option on my device, too. But it definitelly has no SIM-lock.	14:27
Venemo_N900	yeah, mine doesn't either	14:27
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ruskie	from what I understand the only limitation for operators was no custom firmware	14:28
ruskie	and I'm assuming SIM locking is part of the GSM stack so that's where the locking/unlocking would actually happen	14:28
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Khertan1	hu ... i ve this menu too	14:32
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ruskie	well I'm 100% sure mine isn't locked since I actually bought it direct from the nokia distributor here	14:33
ruskie	long long before any cellco here had any interest in the device	14:34
Venemo_N900	yeah	14:34
ruskie	took them like 9 months or so to even start offering it	14:34
Venemo_N900	I bought mine used from an auction site a year ago	14:34
lolcat	Venemo_N900: How much?	14:34
lolcat	I can't get windows 95 to boot properly	14:35
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Venemo_N900	lolcat: 120 000 HUF, a year ago	14:35
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lolcat	HUF never heard of that kind of money	14:36
ruskie	hungarian	14:36
ruskie	forint iirc	14:36
Venemo_N900	correct	14:36
ruskie	440 eur or so	14:36
Venemo_N900	it was around 440 EUR	14:37
Venemo_N900	sorry, o	14:38
Venemo_N900	just calculated it with a conversion site	14:38
Venemo_N900	it was 420 eur	14:38
Venemo_N900	fairly reasonable price a year ago	14:38
lolcat	My N900 just shut down without a reason :(	14:38
MohammadAG	overclocked?	14:38
lolcat	Maybe a little...	14:39
ruskie	hehe	14:39
lolcat	Good I got that offer for a new N900 then xD	14:39
Khertan1	uh ... nokia.fr didn't sell anymore n900	14:40
lolcat	Crap, it won't boot xD	14:40
lolcat	You think it is dead forever? :P	14:44
ruskie	tried charging it?	14:44
Venemo_N900	lolcat: evidence that ocing will kill your phone	14:44
lolcat	Good thinking	14:44
Venemo_N900	lolcat: DocScrutinizer will be happy to see this. yours is the first one :)	14:44
lolcat	It shows the Nokia logo and then it dies xD	14:45
lolcat	I got to the loading this time	14:45
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lolcat	Which(?) means the cpu works	14:45
Venemo_N900	lolcat: a pity	14:45
Venemo_N900	lolcat: try a reflash	14:45
lolcat	I killed my laptop in a similar fashion	14:45
* jonwil would never overclock something		14:46
* ruskie suggest plug in to decent power... then leave it for some 5 minutes charging		14:46
ruskie	THEN try booting it up	14:46
lolcat	Venemo_N900: Migth have an empty battery, it was several houres since last time I charged it xD	14:46
Khertan1	379 euros ... best price in france	14:46
Khertan1	http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00102133.html?ao=15	14:46
Khertan1	i found that still a bit high	14:46
* ruskie is happy he can run his n900 for a few days		14:46
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lolcat	ruskie: Custom battery?	14:46
ruskie	nope	14:47
ruskie	sw tweaks is all	14:47
lolcat	Oo	14:47
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ruskie	default switch to 2G, auto disconnect, no mail checking, no IM	14:47
Venemo_N900	ruskie: what tweaks?	14:47
ruskie	and I think the display is set to 4/5	14:48
lolcat	Yeah, it booted!	14:48
ruskie	Venemo_N900, atleast those ;)	14:48
ruskie	disabled a pile of auto-start apps	14:48
Venemo_N900	ruskie: which ones? and how?	14:48
ruskie	I can wait 5 seconds longer to start an app... no need to prelead it for me...	14:48
ruskie	editing .desktop files	14:48
ruskie	there's a pile of apps that are preloaded	14:48
ruskie	browser, modest, iirc phone... and some others	14:49
lolcat	Shouldn't phone be preloaded	14:49
lolcat	?	14:49
timeless_office	psycho_oreos: the versions of microb for the n900 support xul. the addons dialog is xul	14:49
ruskie	lolcat, well I think I left that one to be preloaded	14:49
timeless_office	but note that 'xul' is usually meant to mean '.xul', whereas 'libxul' is just "gecko"	14:50
ruskie	but generally I hate things to be preloaded...	14:50
lolcat	Ok GUYS! This wasn't a OC thing! I simply used all the battery!	14:50
timeless_office	i didn't write microB on my own fwiw, i'm just one of the people involved	14:50
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lolcat	Not strange really, I used 805mhz at 95%+ for an houre or two	14:50
Venemo_N900	hehe	14:50
Venemo_N900	anyway	14:50
ruskie	would be nice if microb actually supported ssl client certs properly :(	14:51
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Venemo_N900	I have to leave now	14:51
timeless_office	javispedro, docscrutinizer: it wasn't a failure to nickserv, it was a nick collision w/ a ghost during a net-split merge	14:51
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lolcat	Is there a way to get the programs I don't use in a folder?	14:52
lolcat	I have too many icons	14:52
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timeless_office	mohammadag: pong?	14:53
lolcat	ruskie: Where is teh .desktop file?	14:53
ruskie	/usr/share/applications/	14:53
ruskie	under there	14:53
Khertan1	lolcat: /usr/share/applications/hildon/	14:53
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lolcat	It is not a single file to edit?	14:55
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ruskie	no	14:56
jonwil	ok, I confirmed the operator lock stuff is done by a packet sent to the cell modem (as I suspected :)	14:56
ruskie	multiple	14:56
ruskie	lolcat, examine the phone.desktop file whatever it is	14:56
Khertan1	jonwil: so locking n900 is possible ...	14:56
ruskie	you should see some X- stuff	14:56
jonwil	yes it is	14:56
ruskie	iirc	14:56
Khertan1	jonwil: ouch ...	14:56
jonwil	it would only be locked if it was bought from a carrier who wanted it locked	14:57
Khertan1	jonwil: so ... the french azerty edition's are all unlocked ... no carrier sell it :)	14:57
jonwil	mine is definatly unlocked	14:58
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ruskie	http://www.reghardware.com/2011/02/25/mobile_phones_becomes_speakers_at_gigs/ <-- O.o N900 mentioned	15:00
lolcat	I installed Opera and FF 4 beta	15:00
* ruskie wants vimprobable2 on his n900...		15:00
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* jonwil wants Nano on his N900		15:01
Khertan1	a little gui question ... how to display a list of accounts (which is a set of a 6 parameters ... login, password, host, ... ) in a settings dialog. Put them all in a editable qtreeview ? or did you have better idea ?	15:01
ruskie	jonwil, that's dead easy	15:01
Khertan1	apt-get install nano	15:01
jonwil	actually nano would be useless due to lack of a ctrl key	15:01
Khertan1	:)	15:01
jonwil	or rather easy-to-get-at ctrl key	15:01
ruskie	jonwil, there is a ctrl key	15:01
lolcat	You have a ctrl key	15:02
jonwil	oh yeah right	15:02
lolcat	I discovered it today xD	15:02
Khertan1	vim is difficult as it s lack an escape key	15:02
lolcat	I have had the n900 for several months	15:02
ruskie	Khertan1, not really	15:02
jonwil	heh, I can even begin to imagine the horror that would flow from emacs-on-n900	15:03
* ruskie has Ctrl Tab Esc Up Dn ~ \| > keys in xterm bar		15:03
ruskie	erm PgUp PgDn	15:03
Khertan1	ruskie: it s not key it s shortcut	15:03
Khertan1	and slower to use :)	15:03
ruskie	Khertan1, I think I might have bound it to a key combo as well	15:04
ruskie	aka changed the keymap	15:04
Khertan1	ruskie: i ve code my own editor :)	15:04
ruskie	but no... it's not slower to use	15:04
pupnik	"I worked for Nokia..in an effort to show how S40 could be re-used on smartphones a clever little group installed embedded linux, with QT, and managed to get S40 running on it. The whole hack made it look like a linux phone, but all the S40 stuff people liked did not have to be re-written or ported - it was taken as-is."	15:04
Khertan1	pupnik: gnié?	15:04
ruskie	?	15:04
pupnik	Khertan1: i'm just reading from article comments on theregister.co.uk	15:05
Khertan1	so you got the unliked look like of a linux phone with the lack of feature of s40	15:05
Khertan1	?	15:05
ruskie	s40 is a good stack	15:06
pupnik	"Let's not forget that WinPho7 is - natch - the 7th iteration of Mobile Windows. And under its achingly edgy UI, it's still a pile of steaming badger kidneys." hahah	15:06
lolcat	Could we run S60 on our phone?	15:06
ruskie	lolcat, why?	15:07
lolcat	ruskie: Spotify offline	15:07
jonwil	you couldn't pay me to use a Windows Phone 7, Symbian or IOS phone	15:07
ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/25/tfl_nfc/ <-- fun... now you can get scammed by the transport authority... I think I'll stick to having a separate card for everything...	15:08
ruskie	not to mention last I checked the human rights specify I can haz right to anonymous travel... which means no you can't have my CC info to track me by...	15:08
ruskie	why are people so stupid and want to give up their rights...	15:08
jonwil	I like the N900 because you can program it in C/C++, to program iOS I would need to learn the bastardized piece of crap known as Objective-C	15:09
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ruskie	jonwil, isn't ObjC just C with a few objective pecific additions?	15:10
jonwil	its C with a rather crappy OOP later on top	15:10
ruskie	and C++ is?	15:10
jonwil	C++ is far nicer than Objective-C	15:10
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ruskie	C with a weird syntax and crappy OOP layer on top... ;)	15:10
ruskie	if it's based on C it will always have crappy OOP layer on top	15:11
derf	I hate C++ with burning fire of a thousand suns, but even I agree ObjectiveC is crap in comparison.	15:11
ruskie	I'd say each has their strengths and weaknesses	15:12
derf	Until iOS, ObjectiveC's primary strength was that nobody used it.	15:13
ruskie	derf, you mean other than MacOS?	15:14
jonwil	JAVA is even worse	15:14
ruskie	and NeXT	15:14
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jonwil	C#	15:15
jonwil	is worse still	15:15
ruskie	C# line for line looks almost exactly like JAVA	15:15
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derf	ruskie: Exactly. Nobody.	15:16
crashanddie	how about you take the trollfest to somewhere people care?	15:16
lolcat	Why won't dosbox in debian use the dosbox in maemo's config	15:16
lolcat	Where should I copy it too?	15:17
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ruskie	crashanddie, as soon as you point out the trollfest	15:17
ruskie	crashanddie, we're simply having a nice civil debate	15:17
crashanddie	C# vs Java vs MacOS	15:17
ruskie	since the rest of the channel seems to be quiet	15:17
pupnik	crashanddie trolls with the best of them	15:18
crashanddie	you're still mightily offtopic, and purposefully discussing topics that will raise something out of people, so just put a cork on it, will ya?	15:18
crashanddie	pupnik, I think we're both roughly on the same troll-scale gradient ;)	15:18
lolcat	ruskie: Do you know?	15:19
MohammadAG	there's nothing wrong with having an opinion about a language	15:19
crashanddie	MohammadAG, unless you argue that opinion with mere triviality rather than facts	15:20
crashanddie	MohammadAG, and claiming that a language is shit because "nobody uses it", or "it looks like crap", is about as righteous as saying the Mona Lisa is a crap piece of art because she's not asian	15:21
crashanddie	'nuff said	15:21
ruskie	crashanddie, yet all of those are valid opinions ;)	15:21
ruskie	an opinion does not require to be technical to be valid	15:21
crashanddie	"Opinions are like assholes, everyone got them. Still no reason for you to shove them up under other people's noses for inspection"	15:22
ruskie	glad to hear your opinion about everything	15:22
ruskie	since you opinioned on the whole debate that it's a trollfest	15:23
crashanddie	you're about 30 seconds away from getting banned. And that's a fact.	15:23
ruskie	that would be a first	15:23
Jaffa	It's doubly off-topic because none of C#, Java or Mac OS run on Maemo or Maemo devices well.	15:23
crashanddie	Has anyone ever tried porting Mono to Maemo?	15:24
* lolcat can write C#		15:24
kerio	lolcat: but can you write LOLCODE?	15:24
lolcat	At least in theory	15:24
ruskie	http://www.mono-project.com/Mono:ARM	15:24
Jaffa	(and, FFS, if you're going to try and look all knowledgable about the pros & cons of different languages, at least learn that "Java" is not an acronym, and not CAPITALISED)	15:24
MohammadAG	canhaz <Qt>	15:24
kerio	hmm, why should someone learn C# instead of java?	15:24
lolcat	kerio: Not really, had a class on C#. 4 houres a week for a year	15:24
crashanddie	Jaffa++	15:24
MohammadAG	kerio, see, I can)	15:24
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Jaffa	crashanddie: There was a port, IIRC. But it got as much traction as the Java port.	15:24
crashanddie	kerio, mainly because some vendors only provide C# APIs	15:25
ruskie	http://www.mono-project.com/Maemo <-- to be precise	15:25
kerio	MohammadAG: that's not lolcode	15:25
crashanddie	kerio, and AFAICT, you can use Java classes from C#, but not the other way around.	15:25
Jaffa	Primarily because of: a) no (decent) JIT; b) lack of GUI bindings	15:25
lolcat	kerio: Most of the time I got errors it was because I forgott what language I was writing. VB and C# apparently has very diffrent syntaxes	15:25
kerio	MohammadAG: CAN HAS QT?	15:25
MohammadAG	Qt*	15:25
Jaffa	crashanddie: Presumably you could drop to C#'s equivalent of JNI and then back up through JNI to Java?	15:25
kerio	lolcat: of course, one is visual basic and the other is java	15:25
crashanddie	Jaffa, hardly	15:25
kerio	MohammadAG: STDIO is full caps, so i assume Qt is too	15:26
* Jaffa not done much with C#, fortunately.		15:26
MohammadAG	QT sucks kerio	15:26
MohammadAG	Qt otoh...	15:26
kerio	why should someone learn C# or java instead of python?	15:26
Jaffa	Why is QuickTime sucking kerio?	15:26
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* MohammadAG said that		15:26
Jaffa	kerio: Because the job markets for C# and Java are about a bazillion times more wide and highly paying?	15:26
MohammadAG	last time I used QT it took over all my MIMEs	15:26
crashanddie	Jaffa, this one guy made a Java compiler entirely in C#, so that you can take any .class file and you'll get a .dll instead, with the whole lot usable from C#. I used it and it's pretty awesome.	15:27
MohammadAG	any dbus pros around?	15:27
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kerio	Jaffa: lies :<	15:27
xkr47	kerio, because they are faster?	15:27
ruskie	Jaffa, according to some ozzie research doing stuff like Delphi, Foxpro, Cobol can get you a $500/hour paying job	15:27
kerio	xkr47: not really	15:27
xkr47	really	15:27
kerio	pypy is about as fast as java 6 steady state	15:27
crashanddie	ruskie, in a very limited pool of opportunities	15:27
ruskie	crashanddie, true	15:27
kerio	also there are no slow languages, just slow implementations	15:28
ruskie	and specificaly in australia	15:28
Jaffa	kerio: If you're a hobbyist programmer, use a language that's available on the platform your hobby targets. For Maemo, that's Python. For desktop Windows, C# or Java would probably be better. For desktop Windows, it's probably a three way tie	15:28
thp	MohammadAG: what's the d-bus problem?	15:28
xkr47	kerio, exactly	15:28
MohammadAG	thp, solved	15:28
crashanddie	kerio, actually, that's not entirely true. A language with sloppy typecasting will always be slower than a heavily typed language, simply because any kind of comparison, stack inspection or operation won't have to do conversions...	15:29
Jaffa	ruskie: I don't claim there aren't high-paying jobs out there for obscure languages like Delphi (hell, we use(d) Delphi here). My point is that the total salary of all Java developers will be higher than the total salary of all paid Python developers; because there are so many more jobs in it.	15:29
MohammadAG	thp, sorry about that :P	15:29
lcuk	Jaffa, of course, my hobby language was ASM	15:29
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kerio	crashanddie: so python is fast! :D	15:29
xkr47	why would I learn python..	15:29
ruskie	Jaffa, yes but the person getting a job will only be interested in how much they can get ;)	15:29
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xkr47	kerio, well there is of course jython :-)	15:30
* ruskie needs to learn to learn languages...		15:30
Khertan1	a little gui question ... how to display a list of accounts (which is a set of a 6 parameters ... login, password, host, ... ) in a settings dialog. Put them all in a editable qtreeview ? or did you have better idea ?	15:30
Jaffa	lcuk: BBC BASIC, 6502 assembler, ARM assembler, Perl and now it's a mix of shell scripting; Perl; Python; Java; Groovy	15:30
MohammadAG	Venemo, replacement dialog ready, is Qt Animation framework easy?	15:30
xkr47	Jaffa, you should try bytecode languages :-)	15:31
thp	MohammadAG: ;)	15:31
crashanddie	kerio, it also lacks all of the enterprise features that Java offers... Go ask IBM to dump PI or JHI or RFT on your Python app, just for shits and giggles ;)	15:31
Jaffa	xkr47: I've done a tiny bit of Java bytecode manipulation ;-)	15:31
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xkr47	Jaffa, yeah it's fun :)	15:31
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djszapi	How can I open a chat window up inside the gmail account from the left side with my N900 ?	15:31
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xkr47	Jaffa, should investigate other ones as well, like the perl6 bytecodes and c# etc	15:32
thp	Khertan1: 6 rows of label + text entry pairs, or text entry with "default" (gray) text without labels?	15:32
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djszapi	I am trying the one, double click with stylus, but nothing happens regarding that.	15:32
Khertan1	Jaffa: i know some well paid python dev working in finance that get arround same than 15 java dev together :)	15:32
Jaffa	kerio: The obstinance of typical open source developers to look beyond there own trivial projects at the massive amount of money and investment in ecosystems like Java constantly surprises me.	15:32
Jaffa	xkr47: I still follow Parrot with interest and fascination	15:32
MohammadAG	thp, do you know how to get the string here in Qt?	15:32
xkr47	Jaffa, agreed on both :)	15:32
Khertan1	thp: on the small screen of the n900 ... difficult to see what it ll render	15:32
MohammadAG	signal sender=:1.19 -> dest=(null destination) serial=8361 path=/com/nokia/csd/call; interface=com.nokia.csd.Call; member=Coming	15:32
MohammadAG	object path "/com/nokia/csd/call/1"	15:32
MohammadAG	string "00000000"	15:32
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thp	MohammadAG: "string here in qt"?	15:33
Jaffa	Khertan1: As I said, some Python devs get paid a lot. So do some Java devs. Most aren't rich beyond the dreams of avarice, but there are more Java jobs out there.	15:33
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crashanddie	Jaffa, that before-last sentence didn't compute with me	15:33
kerio	Jaffa: yeah, stupid open source programmers that nobody pays, working on their hobbies instead of focusing on enterprise	15:33
derf	I still maintain that Java is an excellent language for mediocre programmers.	15:33
MohammadAG	thp, the string from that dbus message	15:33
Khertan1	thp my problem isn't coding the things ... but found something that is readable :)	15:33
derf	Which is good, because there are a lot of mediocre programmers.	15:33
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Khertan1	Jaffa: depends on functional domain ...	15:34
Jaffa	crashanddie: I've met lots of people online (different IRC channels, talkers, /.) who say things like "nobody uses Java"	15:34
crashanddie	derf, agreed	15:34
kerio	lots of people use java	15:34
kerio	it doesn't mean they should	15:34
crashanddie	Jaffa, oh, right.	15:34
crashanddie	kerio, to be very brutally honest, there is no alternative.	15:34
crashanddie	As simply as that.	15:34
thp	MohammadAG: in the normal d-bus python bindings, you'll add a signal receiver / filter (don't know the terms in QtDBus)	15:34
Khertan1	Jaffa: and there is far more dev ... so it s difficult to catch attention of employer	15:34
Khertan1	s/is/are	15:35
MohammadAG	thp, ui->numberLabel->setText(message.arguments()[1].toString());	15:35
MohammadAG	that was easy :p	15:35
Khertan1	MohammadAG: toString() ????	15:35
Khertan1	MohammadAG: beurk	15:36
MohammadAG	why?	15:36
thp	oh, so you already received the message	15:36
crashanddie	kerio, the simple mind boggling amount of absolutely fantastic tools that help any big (300k+ SLOC) application to understand where the bottleneck is, how to streamline the processes involved, and visualise every single piece information through bite-sized chunks is enough to convince me that Java is still one heck of a language	15:36
thp	Khertan1: it's a QVariant	15:37
Khertan1	MohammadAG: use sip api2	15:37
Khertan1	faster ... better ... stronger ...	15:37
MohammadAG	sip?	15:37
Khertan1	(and maintained)	15:37
crashanddie	harder	15:37
lcuk	what language do they use on the shuttle?	15:37
Khertan1	MohammadAG: or pyside	15:37
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crashanddie	lcuk, good question	15:37
MohammadAG	Khertan1, this is C++, why should I use Python	15:37
Khertan1	MohammadAG: ah ... oups sorry :)	15:37
lcuk	I believe the computer systems are dual coded by different teams in completely different environments	15:37
Khertan1	you still need to do conv and type casting so :)	15:37
MohammadAG	lol no worries	15:37
crashanddie	lcuk, "HAL/S is a real-time aerospace programming language, best known for its use in the Space Shuttle program. It was designed by Intermetrics in the 1970s for NASA. HAL/S is written in XPL, a dialect of PL/I."	15:38
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lcuk	and then deployed to different machines	15:38
crashanddie	They fucking named their programming language HAL	15:38
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lcuk	that is because NASA are simply awesome.	15:38
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Khertan1	GOTO++ Will rulez all !!!!	15:38
crashanddie	"HAL/S has native support for integers, floating point scalars, vector, matrices, booleans and strings of 8-bit characters, limited to a maximum length of 255. Structured types may be composed using a DECLARE STRUCT statement."	15:38
Khertan1	http://www.gotopp.org/index.html.en	15:39
lcuk	so, no unicode on the shuttle	15:39
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crashanddie	which explains why it took them so long to accept foreign astronauts, the system would segfault on UTF-8 characters	15:39
kerio	hahaha	15:39
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ruskie	fun	15:39
lcuk	heh	15:39
lardman	what was it used for? Design of the craft or on-board systems?	15:39
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crashanddie	"The three key principles in designing the language were reliability, efficiency, and machine-independence. The language is designed to allow aerospace-related tasks (such as vector/matrix arithmetic) to be accomplished in a way that is easily understandable to people who have spaceflight knowledge, but may not necessarily have proficiency with computer programming."	15:40
lcuk	lardman, onboard systems afaik	15:40
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crashanddie	"For instance, the letter 'C' in the first column indicates that the whole line is a comment and should be ignored by the compiler."	15:41
crashanddie	So much for variables or statements that begin with C	15:41
lardman	seems fair	15:41
lardman	you even program in FORTRAN crashanddie?	15:41
lcuk	crashanddie, does that mean everything you say should be ignored by the compiler :P	15:41
lardman	s/even/ever	15:41
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crashanddie	lardman, nope	15:41
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crashanddie	lcuk, not a capital C... Close, but no cigar.	15:42
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lardman	well be happy then ;)	15:42
markinfo	Hi. I am testing html5 videos on youtube with Firefox mobil at nokia n900. But it seems terribly slow - nearly unusable. Is there any chance it will be better?	15:42
crashanddie	markinfo, well, it would probably need hardware acceleration, which is unlikely in the near future	15:42
lcuk	markinfo, how well do youtube videos work direct from the website on your other mobile devices?	15:43
derf	markinfo: Do the videos play okay outside of YouTube?	15:43
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Khertan1	the better command of the GOTO++ : GOTOGOTO() %label	15:43
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lolcat	How do I reduce the voltage?	15:43
* lcuk finds youtube actually plays well enough to be watchable on n900 :)		15:43
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Khertan1	there is 50% chance of jumping to the label ... and 50% to jump randomly in the code :)	15:43
markinfo	lcuk, you mean to save them loal and play direct?	15:43
lcuk	markinfo, no, I mean how well does youtube website play from other handheld devices	15:44
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kerio	Khertan1: that's even better than COME FROM	15:45
markinfo	lcuk, I have only nokia n900 .... this phone was quite expensive - so I am awaiting some power.	15:45
markinfo	Adobe flash is not working - o.k. ...but html5 video also not.	15:46
lcuk	markinfo, this device is smaller than your hand	15:46
lcuk	I was looking a computer that was bigger than a room the other day	15:46
markinfo	what is more powerfull device actually?	15:46
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Metallik1ttu	htc desire?	15:47
markinfo	is there some new model? ... iHeard smartphones has 1GHZ CPU today.	15:47
crashanddie	well, "iHurd" in this case might be appropriate	15:48
jaska	iHurld	15:48
Metallik1ttu	N900 would be good if flash 10.1 at least	15:48
lcuk	markinfo, and I can carry my laptop	15:48
Metallik1ttu	+hardware accel	15:48
pupnik	markinfo: you can buy a phone with the 'power' to slide transitions at 60fps. and click on icons.	15:48
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pupnik	or you can buy a n900 to have the power to do many different things besides poke at the screen	15:49
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crashanddie	talking about iHurd, I bought an iPod Touch and Airport Express. Just awesome to control the macbook through remotetap/remote and have the soundsystem in the living room play music without any wires, nor computers in said livingroom.	15:49
crashanddie	</troll>	15:49
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pupnik	the n900 is more powerful than any other phone. but most people don't know how to use those powers.	15:49
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MetalliKettu	Still there is no phone at market that I would switch my N900 though.	15:50
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MetalliKettu	Despite it's shortcomings.	15:50
crashanddie	its	15:50
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markinfo	hm - i had long time nokia n810 and week ago a bought nokia n900 ... and just in a few days gone and I see there again not power enough?	15:50
crashanddie	"A specialist ice cream parlor plans to serve up breast milk ice cream and says people should think of it as an organic, free-range treat. The breast milk concoction, called the "Baby Gaga," will be available from Friday at the Icecreamists restaurant in London's Covent Garden."	15:51
crashanddie	lardman & Jaffa: you guys definitely have to try that :D	15:51
pupnik	i could use more battery power more than i could use more cpu power	15:51
pupnik	but carrying a spare battery (or two) solves that	15:51
lardman	crashanddie: yuck!	15:51
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MetalliKettu	I just bought a new battery :) I get 2 days uptime now	15:52
nid0	whats yuck is the price of it	15:52
MetalliKettu	My old one was really worn out :)	15:52
ruskie	I get 4 days uptime	15:52
markinfo	yess - attery should be twice so big ... I do not know why is nokia n900 so small. It was better with nokia n810.	15:52
ruskie	with the original battery	15:52
MetalliKettu	I have 3G and connections always on.	15:52
ruskie	now coming on to ~18 months of use in a few months...	15:52
crashanddie	nid0, 14 quid per serving...	15:52
nid0	yep	15:53
MetalliKettu	I also run skype + latitude daemon etc so that why it sucks some juice.	15:53
crashanddie	Haha, lardman and nid0: ""Some people will hear about it and go, 'yuck' but actually it's pure, organic, free-range and totally natural," he said. "I had a Baby Gaga just this morning and I feel great.""	15:53
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MetalliKettu	But I think two days is decent.	15:53
Jaffa	crashanddie: Depends on the breasts, surely?	15:53
nid0	Jaffa: they have like 15 mothers signed up to donate	15:53
crashanddie	Jaffa, I don't think the icecream comes out of the breasts	15:53
lardman	not with this weather anyway	15:54
lcuk	Jaffa, "100% pure organic male breast milk"	15:54
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crashanddie	"Hang on a second, that's not a breast"	15:54
Jaffa	crashanddie: Would probably be a Health & Safety issue to get it coming out frozen...	15:54
Jaffa	crashanddie: Eww	15:54
lardman	shock freezing as it hits the cold air	15:54
crashanddie	those nipples will look like straws.	15:55
Jaffa	lardman: It's warm in London today	15:55
lardman	probably a nipple eye danger then though	15:55
lardman	crashanddie: +1 :D	15:55
lcuk	Maemo, code, computers, breasts.	15:55
markinfo	can be installed on this http://www.htc.com/www/product/7pro/specification.html some other operating systeM?	15:56
Jaffa	lcuk: Is this in descending order of interest?	15:56
Jaffa	lcuk: Or on-topicness?	15:56
crashanddie	Jaffa, breasts should be higher than computers	15:56
lcuk	Jaffa, I have already made it clear boobies are high priority, especially for multitouch interaction.	15:56
crashanddie	I mean, when she's standing.	15:56
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Jaffa	crashanddie: Or he.	15:57
MohammadAG	o_O	15:57
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crashanddie	Jaffa, if he's sitting in front of the computer, then technically his boobies are allowed to be under it	15:57
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* lardman wonders how large your screen is to get usable multitouch performance from breasts		15:58
lcuk	lardman, I have a 20" multitouch	15:59
crashanddie	lardman, men get "usable multitouch" with just 2 to 3 inches...	15:59
lcuk	but it works on my 10" one as well	15:59
lcuk	it might also work on your less than average 7" one	15:59
crashanddie	You know what	15:59
crashanddie	I'm so fucking happy I still use that corny nickname instead of like my real name	16:00
crashanddie	I'd be screwed during the next job interview if they googled my name and this came up	16:00
Jaffa	:-)	16:00
lardman	lol	16:00
* Jaffa considers pasting a /who crashanddie		16:00
crashanddie	"So, tell us about your multitouch breast experience over IRC"	16:00
lcuk	crashanddie, at least my stuff is related	16:00
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.packard.bell.multitouch.boobies.fail.20100402_003.mp4 :P	16:00
crashanddie	lcuk, go ahead ;)	16:01
lcuk	"helping to ensure multitouch actually bloody works"	16:01
crashanddie	err, Jaffa, go ahead	16:01
Treibholz	If a company would ask that seriously, I wouldn't want to work there, either...	16:01
crashanddie	lcuk, safe for work?	16:01
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Jaffa	crashanddie: Yeah, spotted that.	16:01
lcuk	crashanddie, yes	16:01
crashanddie	Treibholz, depends, if she's really hot or not...	16:01
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lcuk	crashanddie, one of the HP guys at the meego conf actually went digging and found the user reports which matched	16:02
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lcuk	its a nown issue for every large panel MT display I have tried	16:02
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lcuk	known *	16:02
Treibholz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meego_(TV_series) lol	16:03
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Treibholz	"Meego was canceled halfway through its first season."	16:03
Treibholz	hmm...	16:03
crashanddie	lcuk, lol...	16:04
crashanddie	Treibholz, I think you'll find me and khertan laughing about that about 20 minutes after the MeeGo announced a year ago... :)	16:04
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Treibholz	crashanddie: Yes, I somehow knew, it was old for you....	16:05
lcuk	crashanddie, sampling rate and aliasing effects - its cured by increasing the read rate	16:06
lcuk	this meego ideapad does not have problem that I can see :)	16:06
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Treibholz	lcuk: I did't get wifi to work on mine..	16:06
lcuk	Treibholz, on your what?	16:07
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Treibholz	lcuk: IdeaPad S10e	16:08
lcuk	that is odd indeed, are you sure you enabled the wifi switch o nthe side of it o_O	16:09
lcuk	on the *	16:09
timeless_office	treibholz: yeah, i was rather depressed when i first heard the name choice	16:09
timeless_office	and for once, the blame doesn't lie w/ the Finn	16:09
Treibholz	lcuk: it works perfectly with Windows, Debian, and MacOS X	16:09
timeless_office	the Intel guy should have done the research against americana	16:09
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Treibholz	btw.: is the sqlite-database of the callendar of Meego HX like the one in meamo?	16:10
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markinfo	will be this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10116069 a solution to get powerfull smartphone?	16:17
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markinfo	there is a video about using Ubuntu on HTC. working with firefox seems to be quite fast. Much faser than on nokia n900.	16:18
jonwil	the HD2 is not that good by todays standards	16:18
jonwil	plus its not sold anymore	16:18
jonwil	Now Ubuntu on the HD7 on the other hand, THAT might be interesting	16:18
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markinfo	HD7 is not on the list: http://htc-linux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page (maybe yet?)	16:19
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jonwil	I think no-one has a way to run alternative OSs on Windows Phone handsets yet	16:21
jonwil	due to all the lockdown	16:21
markinfo	for android Phones is it easysier?	16:22
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Treibholz	I was a little bit shocked, when I tried NITdroid, how fast it was.	16:24
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markinfo	Treibholz, do you have still NITroid on your Nokia?	16:26
luke-jr	jonwil: nor Android phones last I checked	16:26
jonwil	Custom kernels can run on a bunch of Android phones	16:26
jonwil	including the Desire Z	16:26
jonwil	and Desire HD	16:26
jonwil	and if you can run a custom kernel, that's all you need for a real linux setup	16:27
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Treibholz	markinfo: not really. I still have the MicroSD-card, but when you run it from a MicroSD, the OS is often slow.	16:28
Treibholz	but it's much, much faster than meego	16:28
luke-jr	jonwil: custom Linux kernels?	16:28
luke-jr	or just Android kernels?	16:28
jonwil	well they can completly replace the binary	16:28
jonwil	and the rootfs	16:29
luke-jr	jonwil: with what?	16:29
jonwil	I dont see any real difference between a linux kernel and an android kernel if you port over the right hardware drivers	16:29
markinfo	Treibholz, it would be interessting if for example this video in html5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtlEl_jJ9eU would be playable on ot.	16:29
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markinfo	the whole firefox mobile is too slow on nokia n900.	16:30
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ccooke	markinfo: it's too slow on everything I've tried it on. It was too slow on an overclocked n900. It's too slow on the overclocked desire Z I'm currently using.	16:31
Treibholz	markinfo: here on my desktop, Flash uses less CPU than "native" HTML5-videos in FF4b	16:31
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Treibholz	I don't know how they get it so slow...	16:32
Treibholz	maybe the decoder is in JavaScript...	16:32
markinfo	hm - adobe flash uses probably some hardware acceleration.	16:32
derf	So does Firefox, but it's disabled on a lot of systems due to driver crashes.	16:33
markinfo	but only to scroll text - it freezes sometimes seconds ....	16:33
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markinfo	is there some software that shows in menu CPU utilization?	16:35
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ccooke	markinfo: well, top will do it, from the terminal... :-)	16:37
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ccooke	(IIRC there's an applet for it, yeah)	16:38
markinfo	maybe Firefox is slow - but there is no other browser today that supports html5 so good. Or?	16:39
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ccooke	markinfo: depends who you talk to, really	16:40
lcuk	Treibholz, it is EASY to make software run slowly	16:41
lcuk	any developer can clog up the cpu of even the fastest machine	16:41
derf	The decoder is about the only part that's actually fast.	16:42
lcuk	however, it takes a delicate fine highly skilled developer to make a cpu purr :)	16:42
derf	It's everything that happens after decoding before it gets on the screen that's slow.	16:42
lcuk	derf - it is decoded to a backbuffer and then the buffer is painted to the screen with scaling (at least that is what happens when you use +- keys	16:43
markinfo	hm - even on my desktop dual core 1.8GHz takes this html5 video from youtube nearly 50% of CPU.	16:43
derf	lcuk: If only it were that simple.	16:43
lcuk	software bitmap scaling (if including AA) is something that is heavy for the cpu	16:43
derf	markinfo: Are you trying to play the 720p version?	16:43
markinfo	360p	16:44
derf	That's... pretty ridiculous.	16:44
derf	What OS is your desktop running?	16:44
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markinfo	XFCE on debian squeeze. Interesting - if the video Window ist hided - for example page is scrolled down it falls to nearly to zero CPU even the video is playing further.	16:46
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derf	What happens if you run Firefox with MOZ_GLX_IGNORE_BLACKLIST=1 ?	16:47
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markinfo	derf, how to do that? Starts firefox with this parameter?	16:48
derf	Type export MOZ_GLX_IGNORE_BLACKLIST=1	16:49
derf	Then run Firefox.	16:49
MohammadAG	or MOZ_GLX_IGNORE_BLACKLIST=1 firefox	16:49
derf	(from the same shell)	16:49
derf	Yes, that works, too.	16:49
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Treibholz	makes no difference on my Core-i5-notebook here	16:52
markinfo	it seems to be the same.	16:52
derf	Are you sure you completely closed the browser first?	16:53
markinfo	but glxgears makes: 8736 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1747.072 FPS	16:53
lcuk	marwhen glxgears adds a webbrowser component it can be used as a fair comparison	16:54
lcuk	markinfo, when*	16:54
crashanddie	OK WHAT THE HOLY FUCK? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxd96qRa6wY	16:56
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nid0	what, it was only time before motion-sensing tech started getting used for adult games :P	16:58
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APTX	booooring	16:59
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Venemo	alterego: ping	17:16
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DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: there's already per-contact-ringtones as by barisione	17:59
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Indeed. I was going to point that out to jonwil but couldn't be arsed to do the Googling	18:00
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sssup	hello	19:10
sssup	anyone der ?	19:10
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sssup	anyone who is into hacing	19:10
sssup	hacking	19:10
crashanddie	hacking?	19:11
crashanddie	Define: "hacking".	19:11
sssup	welll i just wanttto get the password of sm one anyone can help me in tht	19:11
crashanddie	Nope	19:12
sssup	huh	19:12
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lardman	sssup: whose password are you trying to get?	19:12
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unixSnob	if you want their NIT password, you'll have to install video surveillance	19:25
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* alterego sighs		19:29
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celesteh	when my n900 logs in to facebook chat, does it report it's user agent as opera on winxp?	19:30
Sc0rpius	what?!?	19:30
sivang	celesteh: no	19:30
unixSnob	This command launches a browser window, but not the webpage; what am i doing wrong? => /usr/bin/browser www.maemo.org	19:30
sivang	celesteh: MicroB on linux would be my bet	19:30
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Jaffa	unixSnob: You have to use DBus	19:31
MohammadAG	browser launches another engine	19:31
celesteh	sivang: facebook keeps telling me that somebody is logging in on opera on winxp and their locations seem to match mine, so i thought it might be my phone	19:31
sivang	anybody know why after upgrading last night, I get antoher upgrade offer and when I check the status it says 'broken but upgradeable' ?	19:31
unixSnob	Jaffa: i know the DBus command.. but I read somewhere that it can be launched	19:31
sivang	celesteh: I would be very surprised if this is the case.	19:31
MohammadAG	unixSnob, you're spawning another instance of the browser = wasting memory	19:31
sivang	hey MohammadAG	19:32
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MohammadAG	hi	19:32
sivang	MohammadAG: you have any idea about this upgrade issue? it seems that qt sensors lib is missing also due to this.	19:32
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MohammadAG	hmm	19:32
unixSnob	MohammadAG: actually, this is for cases where I want the first instance	19:32
sivang	/usr/local/bin/qtbubblelevel: error while loading shared libraries: libQtSensors.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory	19:32
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* MohammadAG pokes achipa		19:32
sivang	Finished running remote process.	19:32
MohammadAG	apt-get install libqtm-sensors	19:32
Jaffa	unixSnob: It can be launched using dbus on the command line	19:33
unixSnob	got my answer, i think => browser --url=http://www.maemo.org	19:33
celesteh	sivang: hmmm, this is annoying / alarming	19:33
sivang	MohammadAG: hrm, I guess it won't help saying this should have happened by itself with the upgrade? :)	19:33
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sivang	MohammadAG: 'user platform etc etc' ;)	19:33
MohammadAG	probably doesn't depend on it for some reason	19:33
MohammadAG	on that note	19:33
* sivang wonders what the hell happened to the firmware upgrade		19:33
MohammadAG	achipa, libqtm-12 doesn't depend on libqtm-12-connectivity	19:34
sivang	what should be the reported version fot latest upgrade if I am not using CSSU?	19:34
MohammadAG	not a big issue though	19:34
MohammadAG	20.2010.36-2 whether you're using the CSSU or not	19:34
sivang	celesteh: sorry dude, wish I could help. Google identifies me as N900 / MicroB (gecko) etc	19:34
MohammadAG	the CSSU uses that number + maemoXX	19:34
sivang	ah okay, cool	19:35
sivang	like a downstrream upgrade	19:35
celesteh	sivang: is there a way i can use google to find out what the chat agent signs in as?	19:35
unixSnob	Jaffa: i just verified the --url switch and it works... but out of curiousity, whats the dbus command if you don't have a browser running yet? Presumably it's different than the regular command	19:35
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sivang	MohammadAG: so this is my version, and still it tells me to upgrade when I use holdon app manager to 'update'	19:35
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sivang	MohammadAG: ah okay, something got screwed. I am not on that version. Before the upgrade reboot it said I am on that version.	19:37
* sivang wonders if to try and upgrade again		19:37
sivang	celesteh: well, you can use a page to do this. There are tons on the internet	19:38
celesteh	sivang: yeah, but it's not the browser, it's the chat client that i think is identifying this way	19:39
lardman	lol @ work's message re lack of email: http://pastebin.com/Rs4MQaVv /me wonders if a sink hole opened up under the server farm	19:40
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unixSnob	this fails to launch => ssh user@10.15.66.37 /usr/bin/dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.osso_browser /com/nokia/osso_browser/request com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url string:http://www.maemo.org	19:42
unixSnob	and replacing "--system" with "--session" is worse.. gets an error about libraries being wrongly setup	19:43
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jacekowski	unixSnob: if browser isn't running you can't start it with dbus	19:45
slonopotamus	... and if it IS running already, you don't need to start it :D	19:46
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unixSnob	jacekowski: okay.. Jaffa was saying otherwise	19:46
jacekowski	ah	19:46
jacekowski	browserd	19:46
jacekowski	then it should take same command	19:47
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unixSnob	jacekowski: what do you mean?	19:48
slonopotamus	unixSnob: you can't use --session because you're not in desktop session when logging in via ssh	19:49
unixSnob	slonopotamus: desktop session? sounds like something I want to use. Does that mean I can get the desktop in an x window?	19:50
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slonopotamus_	meh	19:51
slonopotamus_	unixSnob: you can't use --session because you're not in desktop session when logging in via ssh	19:51
slonopotamus_	unixSnob: you need to google for reusing same dbus session	19:51
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slonopotamus_	unixSnob: makes sense?	19:52
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unixSnob	slonopotamus_: doesn't sound like what I'm after. I thought for a minute there that dbus could be used to launch a new browser window	19:54
unixSnob	no big deal.. i'll just use browser --url when I want to launch a window	19:55
slonopotamus_	unixSnob: it can be used (it works when run from gui terminal)	19:56
jhanely	Hey guys. I'm trying to build a custom kernel for my n810. I have started with the n8x0_defconfig, but when booting it just shows the Nokia splash screen for about a minute, and then powers off. I have tried to enable the fb console, but... either I'm doing it wrong, or the kernel isn't booting far enough to initialize the console. Anybody have any tips, or a known-good .config file I could start from?	19:56
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slonopotamus_	jhanely: you want omap2420_defconfig	19:57
jhanely	Ah, thank you.	19:57
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sivang	MohammadAG: CSSU are not enabled by default right?	19:59
MohammadAG	hmm?	19:59
sivang	MohammadAG: I just got paranoid thinking they are enabled by default. Excuse me :)	19:59
Jaffa	"Enabled by default"?	20:00
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lolcat	Making the cable for usb hostemode is difficult	20:11
jacekowski	not really	20:14
jacekowski	all you need is a gender bender	20:14
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jhanely	Slonopotamus: I did not find an omap2420_defconfig, though I did find an omap_generic_2420_defconfig. Building from that, I still can't even tell if the kernel is starting at all. It sits on the Nokia screen for a moment, and then powers off. Do you know of any way to get output from the bootloader or something?	20:25
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jhanely	I have lots of experience configuring and building kernels, but very little with embedded devices.	20:26
MohammadAG	rx51_defconfig for the N900	20:26
jhanely	I'm trying to build for the n810.	20:26
MohammadAG	oh, rx44 maybe? idk	20:27
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jhanely	No luck there.	20:38
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DocScrutinizer	N8x0_defconfig sounds just fine to me (noob speaking here)	20:43
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DocScrutinizer	jhanely: unlike N900, the N8x0 devices use initrd	20:44
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DocScrutinizer	afaik	20:44
jhanely	Yeah, it does. For getting started though, as long as I can get the basic stuff built in that shouldn't matter. Or so I believe.	20:45
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jhanely	At this point, I'm really just looking for any indication that my kernel is booting at all. Mounting root and/or initfs can be dealt with once I get that far.	20:46
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DocScrutinizer	for all I know initrd has to match kernel, otherwise it will stall	20:48
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jhanely	Yes, if you need to load any modules before root is mounted, they have to come from initrd. And they have to match the kernel.	20:48
javispedro	and there's not much space left in the n8x0 initrd partition	20:49
jhanely	Indeed not. 2mb for the kernel image, and I'm not sure how much for the initrd.	20:49
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jhanely	I can easily fit the fb console related drivers in the kernel though, and still fit in 2mb. So if the kernel is starting up, I should be able to see some output.	20:50
MohammadAG	Jaffa, javispedro http://gitorious.org/slide2answer/slide2answer	20:50
MohammadAG	javispedro, it doesn't kill the stock dialog (yet), it simply pops over it	20:51
DocScrutinizer	jhanely: I'm not sure about fb console support in N8x0 kernel	20:51
DocScrutinizer	maybe javispedro knows better details	20:51
javispedro	I know it exists =)	20:52
javispedro	but never used it.	20:52
DocScrutinizer	odds are it never did	20:52
DocScrutinizer	...work	20:52
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jhanely	Luke-jr's 2.6.33.2 kernel (at http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=954899) has fb console support.	20:52
javispedro	well I don't see why not, on N810 x11 actually enters much late in the picture	20:52
jhanely	And I can get that one to boot.	20:52
DocScrutinizer	hmm, ok	20:52
jhanely	That's what led me here - I posted a reply asking for his config, and he suggested I log on here.	20:52
javispedro	luke-jr: ^^	20:53
javispedro	(he might be here later today, or not...)	20:53
jhanely	He's in the list now, though apparently not active.	20:53
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javispedro	jhanely: which toolchain do you use to build?	20:54
divan	Does someone know how debian/optify file works? Any documentation on this? I put 'auto' to this file but seems the package created by dpkg-buildpackage isn't optified	20:55
javispedro	divan: only autobuilder will take care of that file	20:55
javispedro	divan: on your host do "fakeroot maemo-optify-deb <package_etc_etc.deb>"	20:55
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javispedro	alterego: there?	20:57
divan	javispedro, thanks, it works. So it's supposed to do run each time I rebuild by deb? Or is there any way to make it part of deb build process?	20:57
jhanely	I'm building with armv6j-unknown-linux-gnueabi.	20:57
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RST38h	moo javispedro	20:57
javispedro	divan: there was a maemo-buildpackage somewhere, but I don't remember where =)	20:58
divan	javispedro, ok, thanks.	20:58
javispedro	jhanely: I have no idea if luke-jr did, but I suggest you use codesourcery2005 (aka the one that comes with the Diablo SDK). All kernels I've built I used that.	20:58
javispedro	moo RST38h	20:58
javispedro	RST38h: saw today's slashdot article about maemo?	20:59
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divan	I'll update http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging_Qt_Creator_Apps_for_Maemo_Extras wiki page cause it mention on creating debian/optify file, but not running maemo-optify.	21:00
javispedro	divan: you do not need to run it if you plan to send the app to Extras.	21:01
divan	javispedro, ohh, clear! Thanks again )	21:01
Jartza	hmmh	21:02
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MohammadAG	javispedro, mind trying it out http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/slide2answer :)	21:02
Jartza	has anyone done qt-programs for n800? :)	21:02
RST38h	javispedro: no, were they gloating?	21:02
Jartza	am I doing something wrong as the window doesn't look correctly "hildonized"?	21:02
javispedro	RST38h: I'm still at it, http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/02/25/1556239/Nokia-and-Open-Source-mdash-a-Trial-By-Fire?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29	21:02
javispedro	Jartza: you're missing "run-standalone.sh"?	21:02
Jartza	meaning, the lower right part of the window is missing the "theme pieces": rounded window corner etc.	21:02
Jartza	javispedro: no I'm not	21:02
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Jartza	I thought if using QMainWindow, the application should be "Hildonized"	21:03
Jartza	oh wait	21:04
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Jartza	it also happens with other qt-applications	21:04
Jartza	hmm. bug in qt library itself?	21:04
MohammadAG	I thought that only applies to Qt 4.6	21:04
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Jartza	MohammadAG: the bug, or qmainwindow? :)	21:05
MohammadAG	QMainWindow	21:05
javispedro	Jartza: I don't remember that happening with the Sudoku sample application	21:05
Jartza	hmm	21:06
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Jartza	but 4.5 is the latest "official" for n800	21:06
Jartza	or atleast it was the one that was easiest to find :)	21:07
MohammadAG	I might be wrong, never had an N800	21:07
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divan	MohammadAG, I've tried slide2answer as well. The default Answer window appears and in a few seconds your slide window opens (with rotation). Sliding works though )	21:07
javispedro	tbh	21:07
MohammadAG	divan, yeah, race conditions, it's intentional till I find a way to kill the stock dialog	21:08
Jartza	well. it doesn't really affect the application usage though, it's just annoying.	21:08
javispedro	I just noticed that the sample sudoku aplication does not have hildon rounded lower coners :(	21:08
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javispedro	*corners	21:08
MohammadAG	QTimer::singleShot(500, this, SLOT(show()));	21:08
Jartza	I just wanted the application to look perfect like other maemo-apps :)	21:08
Jartza	javispedro: so it's a bug. using 4.5 or 4.6?	21:09
Jartza	I found that there is a 4.6 also, but I think not official	21:09
javispedro	Jartza: 4.5.2	21:09
Jartza	ok	21:09
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divan	MohammadAG, nice idea anyway ) I always afraid of pressing 'Cancel' button on the way of taking out phone from the pocket on incoming ring.	21:09
Jartza	same here	21:09
MohammadAG	divan, it's still in very early stages, I want it to be instant as a first	21:10
MohammadAG	and of course, change the sliders to something more appealing	21:10
Jartza	so the qt doesn't generate correct hildonwindow	21:10
MohammadAG	when I figure out QPropertyAnimation	21:10
divan	MohammadAG, yeah, sure. Which process starts stock dialog?	21:11
MohammadAG	rtcom-call-ui	21:11
MohammadAG	I need to kill the window itself using XUnmapWindow, javispedro really helped a lot here	21:11
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* sivang wonders if we are talking about fixing the accidental take call issue with rtcom-call-ui		21:11
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sivang	anybody knows why would latest offical NOkia update fails to install?	21:11
MohammadAG	but I have no idea how to find the window id of the rtcom-call-ui using C++	21:12
MohammadAG	or C, doesn't matter	21:12
javispedro	MohammadAG: it's kind of a black art, specially considering it seems you also have to guess when it appears.	21:12
Jartza	hmmh.	21:12
sivang	after the update I still have 10.2010.19-1	21:12
javispedro	if you knew it was there you just query the X11 window tree and, well, search for it...	21:12
divan	MohammadAG, can we in some way just 'unsubscribe' this CallUI from getting DBus event?	21:12
Jartza	well... annoying, but maybe not that fatal	21:12
MohammadAG	javispedro, we can monitor X I guess	21:13
sivang	Jartza: do you know if the script you foun for swappiness tweaks is good as Swapolube ?	21:13
DocScrutinizer	tweak gtk theme, to change appearance of dialer buttons	21:13
MohammadAG	s/guess/hope	21:13
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, that won't change signals	21:13
DocScrutinizer	uhih, why?	21:13
MohammadAG	cause clicked() on a button isn't the same as valueChanged(int) on a slider	21:14
MohammadAG	idk what gtk uses for the signal names, but you get the idea, I hope	21:14
MohammadAG	divan, I highly suggest we don't, call handling after answering is still handled by that	21:14
DocScrutinizer	wtf, I didn't say use slider, I said change the way BUTTON works	21:14
MohammadAG	so you want to change the library	21:15
Jartza	sivang: not sure at all	21:15
MohammadAG	and how would that not break all other buttons?	21:15
MohammadAG	i.e dialer buttons	21:15
DocScrutinizer	by applying that theme to dialer only	21:15
MohammadAG	the dialer buttons are part of the same binary	21:15
DocScrutinizer	by checking what other properties the button has, eg text.value	21:16
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divan	MohammadAG, maybe worth research this way.. Disable callUI from getting signal, show own UI, and resend Answer event on slide.	21:16
Venemo	hey guys	21:16
Venemo	what's up?	21:16
MohammadAG	divan, killing the window's easier, a lot easier	21:16
MohammadAG	I wonder if X sends a signal when a window's mapped	21:17
sivang	hey Venemo	21:17
MohammadAG	hi Venemo	21:17
DocScrutinizer	if button.text == "ACCEPT" or button.text == "REJECT" then change_appearance_to_slider	21:17
sivang	Venemo: may be you know something about a pr1.3 that seems to be installing but after reboot reported version is still the previous one.	21:17
sivang	Venemo: ? :)	21:17
DocScrutinizer	s/button/self/g	21:18
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: if self.text == "ACCEPT" or self.text == "REJECT" then change_appearance_to_slider	21:18
sivang	divan: I like this. we can try and unsub callui from dbus through the server	21:19
sivang	divan: kill it's subscrition or service file..	21:19
sivang	divan: thing is, how will rtcomm-call react when it loses dbus subscription..	21:19
MohammadAG	hmm	21:20
divan	sivang, how it reacts?	21:20
merlin_N900	trial and error?	21:20
sivang	divan: yes, it might do stupid thing like reboot the device or so , who knows..	21:20
divan	reboot2answer	21:20
sivang	divan: maemo has an interesting notion of 'vital' stuff.	21:20
sivang	merlin_N900: yes, that would be the way.	21:21
* SpeedEvil wants a thingy that pops up the unlock screen when there is an orientation change, the prox sensor goes on->off, and there is light.		21:21
sivang	so we need to kill its sbscription, and then disallow it from connecting (i forgot how that's done)	21:21
sivang	SpeedEvil: ohh slick	21:21
sivang	:-)	21:22
divan	worth to try. Killing X window looks too hackish for me. I believe killing window will cause auto call cancellation.	21:22
* sivang searches the wiki for pr1.3 issues		21:22
MohammadAG	divan, no	21:22
MohammadAG	already tried it	21:22
DocScrutinizer	divan: the whole thing is WAY TOO hackish	21:22
SpeedEvil	Oh - that reminds me of a brosrr issue.	21:22
sivang	divan: they are seperate	21:22
SpeedEvil	Browser.	21:22
SpeedEvil	Listen to music.	21:22
MohammadAG	and changing gtk libraries isn't?	21:22
SpeedEvil	Switch to browser.	21:22
divan	Oke )	21:22
SpeedEvil	Lock screen	21:22
sivang	divan: e.g. in process and archi	21:22
MohammadAG	all approaches are hackish, till they open source the dialer	21:22
SpeedEvil	Use volume buttons to change volume - nothing happens.	21:23
sivang	MohammadAG: +1 to try and kill it's dbus subscription, make it unauthorized to subscribe and sub our own process	21:23
MohammadAG	heh	21:23
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: actually tweaking GTK theme isn't	21:23
DocScrutinizer	it's perfectly inside what GTK is meant to do	21:23
MohammadAG	sivang, there's a risk you'll break call handling	21:24
sivang	SpeedEvil: it is for zooming :)	21:24
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I'm not a gtk expert, feel free to do it	21:24
DocScrutinizer	well, except maybe the check for self.test	21:24
* sivang curses pr1.3		21:24
DocScrutinizer	self.text	21:24
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DocScrutinizer	frankly, nobody here is expert for dialer<->telepathy/telephonystack communication either, so I don't see the fundamental difference	21:25
SpeedEvil	sivang: yes - but with the screen locked - the user clearly does not want to zoom	21:26
MohammadAG	I'm not cloning telepathy handling DocScrutinizer	21:26
DocScrutinizer	and when I hear "killing X windows" and " try and unsub callui from dbus through the server" - sorry I get goosepimples and start to shudder	21:26
MohammadAG	I'm only redoing the answer dialog, when you answer, it's handled over to rtcom-call-ui	21:27
MohammadAG	then don't use it DocScrutinizer	21:27
MohammadAG	we had the discussion yesterday, let's not do it again	21:27
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DocScrutinizer	your rationale is as wrong as the overclocking-app devels' - "I insist in coding broken-by-design potentially dangerous (911 calls) BS, don't use it if you don't like"	21:28
sivang	SpeedEvil: right	21:29
sivang	MohammadAG: We can at least try	21:29
MohammadAG	umm, wtf are you talking about	21:29
sivang	MohammadAG: just to see what happens	21:29
MohammadAG	this doesn't stop 911 calls	21:29
alterego	javispedro: ?	21:29
alterego	not for long though	21:30
MohammadAG	this doesn't kill rtcom-call-ui	21:30
MohammadAG	this only changes the answer dialog	21:30
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: ooh it doesn't??? what's going to happen when you are at a 911 call and a inbound concurrent call is knocking? what's going to happen when slider-dialog pops up over the current established call dialog, and then you kill X? are you really sure it's a brilliant idea to mess around with communication between call-ui and telepathy, just to change look of a button?	21:32
javispedro	alterego: yeah I'm getting a call atm so I'm busy too, we'll talk later	21:32
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, go read the code before arguing on BS facts	21:33
alterego	javispedro: okay, I'll ping you again when I'm free.	21:33
MohammadAG	and stop spreading crap	21:33
MohammadAG	where did I say I was killing X, or telepathy, or rtcom-call-ui	21:33
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: go learn system design fundamentials before corecting me on BS assumptions of yours	21:33
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MohammadAG	system design fundamentals assume the phone app is open source, your argument is invalid	21:34
DocScrutinizer	your argument is	21:35
DocScrutinizer	and everybody can see that	21:35
jacekowski	what is the argument	21:35
jacekowski	nobody calls 911	21:35
* Sc0rpius senses some kind of tension in this channel		21:35
jacekowski	nobody cares	21:35
MohammadAG	nobody's fucking with 911, see? you're spreading BS DocScrutinizer	21:35
jacekowski	and 911 doesn't even work here	21:35
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MohammadAG	anyway, to answer your question	21:36
MohammadAG	what's going to happen when slider-dialog pops up over the current established call dialog	21:36
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: stfu, why are you adding to the BS spead here?	21:36
jacekowski	it's 112 in europe	21:36
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: for lulz	21:36
MohammadAG	you either answer, or reject, it's not rocket science	21:36
Sc0rpius	hehe	21:36
MohammadAG	and if you answer, you're sent back to rtcom-call-ui by rtcom-call-ui	21:36
MohammadAG	no one's killing X	21:37
DocScrutinizer	"it's not rocket science" said the inventor of the rocket chair, prior to blasting himself to pieces	21:37
RST38h	a proofpic?	21:38
jacekowski	what are you trying to do	21:38
MohammadAG	I'm not making a rocket chair, that's not rocket science either :)	21:38
* dm8tbr prefers rocket-surgery		21:38
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MohammadAG	jacekowski, I'm not trying to, http://i51.tinypic.com/2zgdefq.jpg	21:38
DocScrutinizer	no, you are coding a text editor by adding custom functions to spreadsheet cells, so each cell holds one of your chars	21:39
jacekowski	MohammadAG: what are these sliders doing?	21:40
MohammadAG	jacekowski, slide to answer and slide to reject	21:40
MohammadAG	what every resistive touchscreen phone has	21:40
jacekowski	make it a one slider	21:40
jacekowski	but well, i don't see a problem there	21:41
DocScrutinizer	that's what some dude actually did, as only thing he knew was spreadsheet (actually excel). Same here, you don't know GTK so you're implementing an abomination of overwhelming comlexity and unknown side effects, to do something that could be done in a straight and easy to evaluate way by just using the right tools	21:41
MohammadAG	jacekowski, design is still a concept	21:41
javispedro	hm... what's going on here?	21:41
jacekowski	i don't see anything it could mess up	21:41
jacekowski	that would be life critical	21:41
Sc0rpius	what's the straight and easy way?	21:41
jacekowski	unless you consider a lost call life critical thing	21:42
javispedro	ah	21:42
jacekowski	but then you shouldn't be using mobile phone in first place	21:42
MohammadAG	it won't lose you a call	21:42
Sc0rpius	I could disassemble the code and fix the button but that would be illegal	21:42
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MohammadAG	I don't want to patch anything	21:42
MohammadAG	otherwise I'll just change hildon-desktop and get rid of the HILDON_STACKING_LAYER bit that javispedro found	21:43
javispedro	so I'll describe the problem at hand: csd or someone else (MohammadAG could say) emits a d-bus signal, rtcom-call-ui catches it and after N cycles shows a window. This window has a X11 property that causes h-d to pin it on top	21:43
Sc0rpius	I don't even know what the problem is actually	21:43
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: it could mess with established calls for example, when a second call comes in. Just occurs to me after 10s of thinking	21:43
MohammadAG	csd, yes	21:43
javispedro	MohammadAG wants to replace the window with his own, in order to X stuff	21:43
divan	Sc0rpius, the problem is we need to kill stock Answer dialog.	21:43
Sc0rpius	why	21:43
MohammadAG	javispedro, I can show on top of it	21:43
MohammadAG	but I'd need to know when it's created	21:43
MohammadAG	the stock dialog lags, a LOT	21:44
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: i don't have call waiting	21:44
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: just becuase you don't see anything doesn't mean it's proven to not be there	21:44
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: i don't see a problem	21:44
MohammadAG	my dialog shows before it	21:44
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: so you are free to use this abomination	21:44
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, it can answer a second call	21:44
MohammadAG	again, don't spread BS before reading code	21:44
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jacekowski	why don't you just replace stock dialog with your own	21:45
MohammadAG	isn't that what I want to do?	21:45
jacekowski	that shouldn't be hard to call couple functions in context of stock dialer	21:45
javispedro	jacekowski: rtcomm-call-ui is closed aiui.	21:46
MohammadAG	javispedro, that doesn't stop him	21:46
jacekowski	but you can attach to it with ptrace	21:46
MohammadAG	remember his fmtxd	21:46
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: if you dare to once more aout your shit, you'll have to live with the consequences. I'm not spreading BS, you do. I'm not oblighed to read your abomination sourcecode to state obvious things here that are RIGHT just BECAUSE they don't relate to any sourcecode	21:46
MohammadAG	if you don't want to read code, stfu	21:46
MohammadAG	it's not even killing anything right now	21:46
jacekowski	kill it with a fire	21:47
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javispedro	so the discussion here is which option is most hackish: hacking Gtk+ theme to emulate "HildonButton"'s signals and behaviours while showing a GtkSlider, creating an app that listens to signals and hides the stock window, or patching the rtcomm-call-ui binary?	21:47
dima202	liquid nitrogen	21:47
MohammadAG	scratch the last option javispedro	21:48
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: you are acting like a stubborn child. I refuse to argue any further with you. I tried to teach you something, but you insist in knowing everything and don't need any good advice, while praising your soure like the holy book. I'm fed up with that	21:48
javispedro	s/patching/intercepting gtk+ calls with ptrace in the/	21:48
infobot	javispedro meant: so the discussion here is which option is most hackish: hacking Gtk+ theme to emulate "HildonButton"'s signals and behaviours while showing a GtkSlider, creating an app that listens to signals and hides the stock window, or intercepting gtk+ calls with pt...	21:48
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MohammadAG	I'm acting like a child?	21:48
jacekowski	well, rtcomm-call-ui if we want to support only voice calls should be simple to hack	21:48
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MohammadAG	<MohammadAG> we had the discussion yesterday, let's not do it again	21:48
MohammadAG	you continued to spread bs	21:48
MohammadAG	you have no off switch, you continue to argue till ignored	21:49
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javispedro	maybe we'd need to build a patched dbus to be able to "intercept" signals =)	21:50
MohammadAG	but why :/	21:51
jacekowski	we could use LD_PRELOAD	21:52
* Sc0rpius still doesn't know what the problem is		21:52
MohammadAG	that's what Doc's suggesting	21:52
javispedro	MohammadAG: while I disagree with DocScrutinizer in that it will cause children to die and 911 calls to be missed, the current code would have to continually poll the X11 tree after the signal is emitted looking for the (unfortunately not very specific) rtcomm-call-ui window	21:52
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javispedro	and polling sucks. not to mention.	21:52
Sc0rpius	yeah battery life	21:53
javispedro	er... not to mention the potential for race conditions.	21:53
Sc0rpius	will be reduced	21:53
jacekowski	you can fix that later on	21:53
MohammadAG	Sc0rpius, for 5s of "Incoming call" time?	21:53
jacekowski	with simple ld_preload hack	21:53
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javispedro	Sc0rpius: not very worried about that, more about that it will introduce CPU time at a moment where the system is already taxed (incoming call)	21:53
Sc0rpius	that too	21:53
Sc0rpius	but what I really wonder is, what the objective is, what button bothers you	21:54
javispedro	Sc0rpius: read above. this is a "slide to answer" project.	21:54
MohammadAG	I agree about the cpu thing	21:54
lirakis	i wonder if n900's are being sold in droves on ebay ... /me goes to check	21:54
Sc0rpius	slide what, the keyboard?	21:55
MohammadAG	no, a slider	21:55
Sc0rpius	like the one you slide when you press the power button?	21:55
javispedro	Sc0rpius: yep.	21:56
Sc0rpius	to unlock the phone	21:56
Sc0rpius	hmmm	21:56
MohammadAG	yeah	21:56
Sc0rpius	and why would anyone would want that? pressing the answer button is easier	21:56
Sc0rpius	-would	21:56
javispedro	while I'm already used to it, one of the first complains in wild usage of the N900 is accidental call answers	21:56
Sc0rpius	I mean what's the motivation	21:56
Sc0rpius	ohhh	21:56
lirakis	its too bad the n810 doesnt have microphone and speaker positioned so it could be used as a SIP handset	21:57
lirakis	that would make it a useful piece of technology still	21:58
Mousey	i kinda liked it for taht =(	21:58
Mousey	i wish i could get another one =(	21:58
lirakis	one what ? n810?	21:58
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Mousey	yah	21:58
javispedro	MohammadAG: maybe hit -devel, and see if anyone has an idea for overriding the UI. Otherwise...	21:59
lirakis	i like the n810 hardware way better than the n900	21:59
lirakis	but ... it cant be used as a phone	21:59
lirakis	thats annoying	21:59
lirakis	b/c if it could .. id still use it	21:59
MohammadAG	javispedro, I'm not killing the stock dialog	21:59
lirakis	.. just another failure of insight by nokia	21:59
MohammadAG	atm	21:59
MohammadAG	so it's a race	21:59
lirakis	lets give it a sip stack ... but not make the hardware usable as a handset	21:59
lirakis	wtf??	22:00
javispedro	MohammadAG: yeah, but that makes it unusable I guess, with half the calls getting slider and the other half don't =)	22:00
lirakis	classic nokia	22:00
sivang	I think I got it. The version meta package fails to install as the upgrade does not automaticlalyl installs all the qt deps	22:00
MohammadAG	javispedro, again, I hope no idea how to get the Id in C	22:00
* javispedro ponders why I have a .txt in my $HOME that says "Please insert the BeOS Boot CD to continue". I guess I need to cleanup more often..		22:00
* sivang tries installing the qt deps by hand through HAM		22:00
Sc0rpius	what I would do is	22:01
sivang	hehe	22:01
sivang	javispedro: how did you get this? :)	22:01
Sc0rpius	get the telepathy-ring source code from MeeGo	22:01
javispedro	nfi.	22:01
Sc0rpius	modify it to Maemo and replace the closed one	22:01
sivang	anybody idea if my assumption could be truie? has this happened to someone else already ?	22:01
Sc0rpius	modify the dbus call	22:01
Sc0rpius	and make your own answer dialog.	22:01
Sc0rpius	that's what I would do	22:01
Mousey	i never wanted to use the n810 as a phone, and as a tablet it was phenominal. now it's dead	22:01
Sc0rpius	telepathy-ring is open in MeeGo already as far as I know	22:01
sivang	I mean, it gave this window stlye 'updating' in 'text mode' with the Nokia logo on FB	22:02
javispedro	Sc0rpius <-- cpt. obvious =) however, that is WAY of a larger project.	22:02
sivang	(after reboot)	22:02
sivang	and ten it rebooted again and went up.	22:02
Mousey	and the speakers were amazing	22:02
sivang	*MSWindows	22:02
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Sc0rpius	you think it's larger?	22:03
javispedro	Sc0rpius: meego uses ofono, maemo doesn't	22:03
Sc0rpius	hmm right.	22:04
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javispedro	so you then have to pull meego, you have to pull the complete meego dialer ui, you have to pull half of meego, and you've just reinvented cordia.	22:04
Sc0rpius	hehehe	22:04
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Sc0rpius	then send an email to somebody in Nokia requesting to open telepathy-ring because "It's opened in MeeGo anyway" hehehe	22:05
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Sc0rpius	so Ofono instead of CSD...	22:09
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alterego	ofono works on maemo	22:13
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alterego	At least, it has worked	22:13
alterego	Anyway, bbl	22:13
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trumee	~ping	22:26
infobot	~pong	22:26
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Macer	hm. my damn n900 seems on the frits	22:31
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DocScrutinizer	Sc0rpius: that's exactly what johnwil's wiki update and jaffa's initiative is all about	22:37
Sc0rpius	actually reading the telepathy-ring thing seems to be very well layered	22:38
Sc0rpius	people would only need to change the "modem" source directory that interacts with ophone and rewrite that layer for CSD	22:38
Sc0rpius	I'm not sure if it's a LARGE project like javispedro says... I would have to research and read code a little more	22:39
DocScrutinizer	Sc0rpius: though even then we don't have a significant part of all the knowledge needed on how to handle niche cases on dialer-ui, so a foss replacement will still be a poor crappy PoC at best	22:39
Sc0rpius	I meant with "ofono"	22:39
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KevinB	nite guys	22:41
npm	what's the recommended way to record video on n900/maemo?	22:41
KevinB	someone the height of the screen without the default hildon topbar	22:42
KevinB	in px?	22:42
MohammadAG	55 afaik	22:42
KevinB	allright thanks :)	22:42
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divan	npm, do you mean code for recording video or what?	22:46
Sc0rpius	actually I even like the idea to replace closed apps with opened apps that look the same	22:48
Sc0rpius	all the call management is terrible	22:49
Sc0rpius	take another phone or your landline and call right now to your N900 you will see:	22:49
Sc0rpius	1.- The screen lights up without you even touching it	22:49
Sc0rpius	2.- Like 2 seconds later you can see the actual incoming call dialog	22:49
Sc0rpius	3.- You already have heard a ring in your landline/other phone and thought "the receiver hasn't seen the call yet"	22:50
Sc0rpius	all that crap has to change	22:50
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npm	divan: for code i can use a qtmobility example... i was looking for an example of a working app. (i recently thought i could shoot video w/ the n900 and when i tried the various camer apps i'd installed, none did video)	22:58
RST38h	DocScrutinizer: Who are our current Qt gurus? (sans Python)	22:58
DocScrutinizer	ljpotter?	22:59
npm	RST38h: the fact that i'm stuck at "Warning: [Main]: QSqlDatabase: QSQLITE driver not loaded" means i'm not a guru....	22:59
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npm	(not on maemo but meego-lem)	23:00
RST38h	npm: No need to interject then.	23:00
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RST38h	...when Chinese supercomputers shun American-made x64 processors and GPU co-processors and start using their own energy-efficient, MIPS-derived, x86-emulating Godson line of 64-bit processors...	23:41
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RST38h	MIPS-derived. Heh.	23:42
Macer	oh well. guess there is a tablet-encode mencoder wrapper	23:43
Macer	that's awesome	23:43
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javispedro	MIPS. sigh.	23:45
MohammadAG	PSP! :p	23:45
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