IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-02-23

DocScrutinizerbut does it blend?00:00
DocScrutinizererr00:00
zakkkkm_http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU#Installation still up to date?00:00
DocScrutinizerdoes it have a detaled changelog?00:02
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DocScrutinizerbrief but comprehensive00:02
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DocScrutinizerthere might be "bugs" I don't want to get fixed00:02
MohammadAGhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog00:02
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MohammadAGyes00:03
DocScrutinizer\o/00:03
zakkkkm_"This will then automatically run through a series of scripts to ensure HAM will now be using community repository for updates." where are those scripts located?00:03
MohammadAG/usr/bin/install-community-ssu00:04
MohammadAGbasically, what the icon runs00:04
MohammadAGit just checks if apt-worker is running00:04
zakkkkm_... phone internet acting oddly00:04
zakkkkm_tethering fine .. but internet on phone seems dead00:04
zakkkkm_ah00:04
MohammadAGbasically, the script installs a dumb package, udpates package lists, then launches HAM in update mode00:05
zakkkkm_phone seems to taking alot of RAM and such, was looking to try and decrease it00:05
zakkkkm_too much swapping00:05
malte_how to setup hidden wlan with n900?00:05
MohammadAGStatus menu -> internet connection -> Hidden WLAN00:05
malte_its not listed00:05
malte_yeah now00:06
malte_have to wait some time00:06
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malte_is n900 comatible with radius server?00:07
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DocScrutinizermalte_: hidden SSID is strongly deprecated00:10
malte_DocScrutinizer, whyß00:10
DocScrutinizerhas security/privacy issues (yes!), plus may cause battery hog on N90000:10
malte_hidden SSID prevents kiddies from "hacking"00:11
DocScrutinizerbottom line: N900 has to ask all APs with hidden SSID "are you 'foo'?" "are you 'bar'?"00:11
RST38hdoes not afaik00:11
malte_DocScrutinizer, heres only one hidden AP00:11
DocScrutinizerdoesn't matter00:12
malte_hm00:12
DocScrutinizerit's nonsense, and deprecated00:12
malte_hm.. but wpa2 is not soooo save? :/00:12
DocScrutinizereh?00:12
DocScrutinizerwpa2 is just as safe as it gets, for now00:13
malte_with good pc with good graphic card and an "idiot"-key - better an "standard" ssid you can hack it00:13
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Corsacno00:14
dschoepemalte_: Not effectively00:14
dschoepeafaik, wpa2 is still perfectly safe/not broken00:14
DocScrutinizerdict attack is always possible00:14
DocScrutinizerget decent passphrase!00:14
DocScrutinizer:-P00:14
malte_dschoepe, hm... i7 quad core with CUDA graphic card... is very fast00:14
DocScrutinizeranyway not even hidden SSID will help against dict attack00:14
DocScrutinizerau contraire00:15
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Kegetysif someone is going to crack wpa2 to get to your wlan, a "hidden" ssid is not going to stop them. Probably more just an invite to do it when they see you're trying to hide something :)00:15
malte_hm00:15
malte_can i use n900 with radius server?00:16
DocScrutinizerplus your device it shouting out loud all the APs you ever associated to, which had hidden SSID X-P00:16
DocScrutinizerincl their "hidden" SSIDs00:16
malte_DocScrutinizer, i think that all devices do that? when you monitor wlan with airmon you see the client probes for a,b,c,d,....00:16
DocScrutinizers/ all / *all* /00:16
zakkkkm_all you people are foolish.. just make a set of like 100 fake AP with the same name as yours :P , they wouldnt ever try it :P00:17
DocScrutinizersure, that's inevitable with hidden SSID, that'S why it's strongly deprecated. It has security/privacy issues00:17
DocScrutinizerdidn't I mention that?00:17
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malte_DocScrutinizer, but all devices are probing the NOT hidden ssids, too?!00:18
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Kegetysthey dont need to be probed when they are broadcasted by the ap00:18
DocScrutinizerno, usually not00:18
malte_hm... but when i monitor i see clients probing APs that are visible00:19
DocScrutinizerwhy should a device ask "are you foo?" when the AP clearly says it's 'bar'00:19
malte_its a windows "bug" i think00:19
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malte_so... do you know the "karma attack"?00:19
Kegetysafaik. the ssid is only really hidden when nothing is connected to the ap, if something is connected then you can see the ssid from the packets. So it works, but only if you dont use your wlan :P00:20
DocScrutinizerKegetys: exactly00:20
DocScrutinizeras the clients talk to hidden AP with clear name, uncrypted00:20
malte_Kegetys, yes but when i'm away for weeks i can be sure no one uses my wlan00:20
malte_DocScrutinizer, thats a problem... should be optimized... should ask crypted for aps00:21
DocScrutinizerbottom line: *forget* hidden SSID, it's nonsense, and dangerous00:21
malte_DocScrutinizer, do you know the "karma attack"?00:21
DocScrutinizermalte_: that's nonsense00:22
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DocScrutinizerhow would you crypt an initial ping?00:22
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DocScrutinizerhidden SSID has ZERO bebefit and quite some downsides / risks, so *forget* it00:22
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DocScrutinizerno00:23
malte_DocScrutinizer, i think it would be possible...00:23
DocScrutinizerbenefit*00:23
malte_DocScrutinizer, karma attack uses the windows "bug" to ask for APs...00:23
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DocScrutinizermalte_: I use hidden SSID to invite my neighbours to associate to my AP :-P00:24
DocScrutinizerthank you very much for all the data00:24
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malte_creates an virtual ap with the ssid the (unconnected) windows client asks for... - so that the windows client connects to the virtual ap... and then you can hack the windows client directly... without beeing in an normal network00:25
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DocScrutinizerthat's exactly why hidden ESSID is bad :-D00:26
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zakkkkm_How good is nitdroid?00:26
DocScrutinizerS/ E//00:26
MegaltariakBut this would works only for unencrypted AP right ?00:26
malte_DocScrutinizer, windows probes ALWAYS for some ap00:26
DocScrutinizerso what, I'm not interested in windows00:27
DocScrutinizerand I got no AP with hidden SSID00:27
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malte_Megaltariak, the attack creates an unencrypted AP so that the windows client connects to it without asking the windows user for a key... so you create connection with it... and the user doesnt see it in most cases00:28
MegaltariakWhy this would works with hidden ap and not with visible ones ?00:30
malte_it works with every windows client... hum... dont know if it works too with windows 700:30
MegaltariakSo if windows see an ap with no encryption and known essid, it would connect to it even if a key is saved for this essid ?00:32
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malte_hm... dont know it sure... google for the "karma attack"... i have only seen it demonstrated by an IT security specialist... - he works for big concerns to hack them :D00:34
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SpeedEvilI love the fake real certificates attack.00:35
nox-malte_, what about ssid with a series of \0 chars, i guess thats also some exploit?00:35
SpeedEvilThere are ~200 certificates trusted by most browsers.00:35
SpeedEvilThese include - for example - the latvian government.00:35
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: mediaplayer doesn't play songs00:35
DocScrutinizer51doesn't know name00:35
MohammadAGumm, it should00:35
SpeedEvilThe latvian government can therefore generate a certificate for paypal.com that will be completely trusted by all browsers.00:35
SpeedEvilEven outside latvia.00:36
SpeedEvil(country picked at random)00:36
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: atrist, click one artist, unknow song, unknown length, no playback00:38
MohammadAGartist view is not done yet00:38
nox-SpeedEvil, yeah ssl isnt really `secure'...00:38
MohammadAGuse album view or song view00:38
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DocScrutinizer51meh00:38
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MohammadAGfeel free to help, mafw is not that easy to work with :P00:38
DocScrutinizer51I got some 1000 albums00:38
DocScrutinizer51and no search00:38
MohammadAGtechnically, pressing the key on the keyboard should scroll to it00:39
DocScrutinizer51unusable00:39
DocScrutinizer51it doesn't00:39
MohammadAGit does here...00:39
DocScrutinizer51you told me qt doesn't support it, ( ago00:39
DocScrutinizer511h00:39
MohammadAGdoesn't support search00:39
MohammadAGi.e a search box00:40
MohammadAGbut clicking a button scrolls to that letter00:40
DocScrutinizer51pff I shall know exact name of album? then pick from 100 with same starting letter?00:41
DocScrutinizer51sorry, nice but not yet usable00:41
DocScrutinizer51(yes it does jump, in album view)00:42
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malte_its late... have to go to sleep now... @ SpeedEvil : sounds interesting00:45
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: playlist doesn't show when clicking cover art in player00:46
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, duh, no MafwPlaylist00:47
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malte_good night00:47
DocScrutinizer51going back to prev window is missing the bottom right button to go to player00:47
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DocScrutinizer51it shows up in root window, but tehn of course my selected album is unset00:48
SpeedEvilmalte_: night00:48
SpeedEvilmalte_: search defcon on youtube.00:48
SpeedEvilI especially liked the one about remote jackpotting cash machines.00:49
DocScrutinizer51cover art is actually nice00:49
DocScrutinizer51no distrotions :-D00:49
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: and ctrl-BS brings me a menu, rather than taslswitcher :-D00:55
MohammadAGyeah, need to change that to shift00:57
MohammadAGit's actually just ctrl00:57
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, click the backspace button alone00:57
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DocScrutinizererr to do what?00:58
MohammadAGit closes the window00:59
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MohammadAGbasically, it's a clone of the <- button in the top corner00:59
MohammadAGI'm trying to make it keyboard friendly00:59
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trxany idea on how may i "disable" Alt+Sym dialog for a certain control (or maybe the whole app)?01:05
trx(using Qt btw)01:05
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DocScrutinizer-8MohammadAG: I want ctrl-bs taskswitcher, not 'alt-F4' close window01:11
MohammadAGheh, I need to change ctrl to shift01:12
MohammadAGsorry, got too much stuff on my hands01:12
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MohammadAGsee about -> build date01:12
DocScrutinizer-8bs for close-window is fine, but...01:12
DocScrutinizer-8oh, so I got you wrong01:13
MohammadAGI wanted to open the top menu with a key01:13
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MohammadAGso I used ctrl, overlooked the fact it can be used for CTRL-BS01:13
DocScrutinizer-8got it01:14
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MohammadAGI want keyboard scrolling list widgets in hildon01:14
MohammadAGshould be easy with libhildon1 edited01:14
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ArkenoiWhy isn't portrait mode screen keyboard in community SSU?01:15
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MohammadAGcause it can be installed via devel01:16
DocScrutinizer-8because there's none yet01:16
DocScrutinizer-8?01:16
MohammadAGthere is one01:16
MohammadAGforcing rotation also forces the keyboard to portrait01:17
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DocScrutinizer-8meh01:17
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DocScrutinizer-8couldn't bother less01:17
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ArkenoiMohammadAG, the one included with forced rotation daemon? I'd like it to be separated, because rotation daemon is causing some applications to crash01:18
DocScrutinizer-8portrait kbd is a PITA01:18
MohammadAGArkenoi, uh, no, the patch in the CSSU01:18
MohammadAGit forces a portrait flag on all windows if you enable it01:18
mikhasdoes the HW keyboard rotate, too?01:19
MohammadAGby thp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtD926wNcYs01:19
MohammadAGno, your hands rotate01:19
DocScrutinizer-8we got any concept how to stop portrait mode autoswitching?01:19
MohammadAGyes01:19
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MohammadAGconcept - yes01:19
MohammadAGimplementation, not yet01:20
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MohammadAGbasically, status menu + patched hildon-desktop + gconf01:20
DocScrutinizer-8we need a per-app config option01:20
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MohammadAGif it's in the status menu, it's easily accessible :P01:20
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DocScrutinizer-8one app might be nice in portrait, while another one crashes01:21
MohammadAGyeah, whitelist01:21
DocScrutinizer-8yes01:21
MohammadAGthp, suggested we make one for stock apps that are closed, the rest are all rotated depending on a portrait flag01:21
DocScrutinizer-8so I see we actually have a concept ;-D01:21
MohammadAG(the ones that are open)01:21
MohammadAGI thought you meant orientation lock01:22
MohammadAGlike when you're in bed, and you're on the N900, if you're on the right side, it can rotate to portrait while you want it in landscape01:22
DocScrutinizer-8sure we need a master switch to override01:22
DocScrutinizer-83 positions01:22
DocScrutinizer-8portrait ls auto01:22
MohammadAGyeah01:23
MohammadAG0 1 2 in gconf01:23
MohammadAG0 = default (auto), 1 = ls, 2 = portrait01:23
DocScrutinizer-8it's an interesting question which one overrides the other, of whitelist and masterswitch01:23
MohammadAGhandled by a status bar applet like the 3G applet01:23
MohammadAGmaster switch overrides all01:24
DocScrutinizer-8each app needs ask-portr ask-ls auto force-ls force-portr01:24
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DocScrutinizer-8I dont believe I say this, but probably gconf is the right thing to keep the per-app settings01:30
DocScrutinizer-8so no whitelist01:30
MohammadAGwell, it's only for closed apps01:30
MohammadAGopen apps should use the flag01:30
DocScrutinizer-8but you can edit gconf to hold any of those 5 states via gconftool for the apps that donn't have a menu for it01:31
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DocScrutinizer-8the 'flag' is just that those apps know to gconf01:31
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DocScrutinizer-8don't introduce to segregate concepts for the same thing01:32
DocScrutinizer-8two*01:32
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javispedroomg DocScrutinizer-8 must be the evil twin of DocScrutinizer, seeing he just recommended use of gconf01:41
ptlno, DocScrutinizer-8 is the 8-bit version of DocScrutinizer01:42
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DocScrutinizer-8OSI layer 801:43
javispedroany guess-estimates at the download size of the latest windows service pack?01:44
MohammadAG400MBs01:45
javispedro(it is obviously surprising, that's why I'm quoting it =) )01:45
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MohammadAGlol01:45
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javispedroaround 2.5 GiBs01:45
DocScrutinizer-8damn I was about to suggest 4.801:46
DocScrutinizer-8aka 'one single layer DVD'01:46
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javispedrothat would be more than the win setup dvd itself01:46
DocScrutinizer-8so what? sounds about reasonable01:47
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DocScrutinizer-8they not only need the new versions, but also the cleansers for the old crap's crap01:48
javispedrowell that's like, two and a half tons of crap01:49
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DocScrutinizer-8and probably a complete old original version to compare and detect pirated stuff01:49
DocScrutinizer-8so obviously it has to be at least 2 times the size of original01:50
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DocScrutinizer-8javispedro: I'd not suggest gconfd if it weren't running anyway01:54
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DocScrutinizeranybody visiting embedded world Nuernberg Mar 1-3 ?03:15
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Sc0rpiushttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utNKHAFmrjs oh this was so funny03:16
Sc0rpiusI don't even know what Nuernberg is03:16
DocScrutinizerlol03:16
DocScrutinizer~weather EDDN03:17
infobotNuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2011.02.23 0050 UTC; Dew Point: 10 F (-12 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.18 in. Hg (1022 hPa); Relative Humidity: 85%; Temperature: 14 F (-10 C); Visibility: 5 mile(s); Wind: from the NE (040 degrees) at 5 MPH (4 KT); Windchill: 6 F (-14 C)03:17
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Sc0rpiusI see, are you in Germany?03:18
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DocScrutinizersometimes03:18
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* EvertonGomes is away "comer" • Log: on • Pager: off03:20
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DocScrutinizerEvertonGomes: disable that notice!03:22
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DocScrutinizermaybe the question should be "what is embedded world?"03:25
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DocScrutinizerwell, not interesting for consumers, it's highly EE focused - new chips, new modules, new technologies03:30
Sc0rpiusI see03:30
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DocScrutinizerwww.ask-embedded-world.de03:34
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Sc0rpiuswell it's not like I can read that :)03:36
DocScrutinizer-8except the link 'English->' upper right on the page?03:38
Sc0rpiusheh :)03:39
Sc0rpiusmy brother would love to go to something like that03:40
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Sc0rpiusnot long ago he was third in the WIZnet iMCU Design Contest03:40
Sc0rpiusthat's from Circuit Cellar03:41
Sc0rpiusI'm not really into electronics03:41
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doc|homeI really wish the maemo browser was properly threaded04:40
doc|homeso frustrating at times04:40
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nox-n900 is smp?04:55
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doc|homenope, but that shouldn't cause me to not be able to scroll a browser page if there's another browser page doing something. It gets so bad as to just blank out the page.04:58
nox-ah04:59
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DocScrutinizerthat's nasty indeed05:14
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ZogGlol n950 without HW keyboard07:09
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Sc0rpiusthe pics I saw of a possible N950 had a hw keyboard that slides horizontally and vertically07:14
ZogGSc0rpius so?07:18
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doc|homeSc0rpius: will it happen?07:32
ShadowJKZogG, I'd say "so?" about your claim too :P07:33
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ZogGyou can say "so?" for anything nokia does07:34
* ShadowJK is looking forward to the 4-row hw keyboard :-D07:36
DocScrutinizer51<yawn>07:36
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ShadowJK:)07:38
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* jonwil wont buy ANY phone without hw keyboard08:55
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RST38hOk. We are not selling you phones here08:56
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jonwil:)09:00
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divanWho said N950 will be without hw-keyboard? It was just an assumption of slashgear article author, wasn't it?09:06
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pupnik_that would be pretty stupid09:09
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pupnik_any news about wat the patent deal is with microsoft and nokia?09:10
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digitalstimulusdoes anyone know how to play sound piped from stdin on N810?  play-sound only seems to support playing from file10:51
BugBlue /dev/stdin?10:53
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jacekowskitry play-sound -10:54
jacekowskii mean - as filename10:54
digitalstimulustried that already10:55
digitalstimulus/dev/stdin doesn't give the could not open file error, now I just get "unrecognized audio file format"10:55
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digitalstimulusspecifically I am trying to play with espeak on N810 and just using `espeak "hello"` doesn't output any audio, just gives errors10:57
JaffaMorning, all10:57
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flexxxvIs PR 1.3.3.7-6  (20.2010.36-2maemo12 ) the newest cssu?11:22
flexxxvI cant find an update with the application manager, but I thought there was a new version with this rotation bug fix11:23
MohammadAG12.111:23
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crashanddiedigitalstimulus, most commands are not tailored to accept binary data through stdin11:24
flexxxvMohammadAG: thx. So I cant get it over app manager / apt-get?11:28
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MohammadAGyou can11:30
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flexxxvok I'll check my repo settings11:31
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flexxxvok I found the update. btw is it possible to enable fapman to do these kind of updates?11:39
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MohammadAGflexxxv, I suggest not to11:46
MohammadAGI was actually thinking of a check in preinst (is fapman running? if so, fail), but I'm not sure11:47
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flexxxvFor me fapman isn't showing this update11:47
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MohammadAGgood :P11:48
flexxxvwhat is the problem with fapman? I like it a lot because ist is so much faster...11:48
MohammadAGit doesn't handle updates properly, it autoremoves all unnecessary packages by default11:49
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flexxxvok thx. The new cssu is realy nice. now the autoroation is working all right. I'm still hoping for portrait app switcher :D11:51
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flexxxv(and hildon home ;) )11:51
MohammadAGwell11:51
MohammadAGCTRL+SHIFT+Blue arrow + L11:51
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gomiamD11:55
flexxxvIntresting, but now ready for every day use.This is a (for me) new key combo. I only knew ctrl+shift+r. thx.11:56
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MohammadAGthp, pointed that shortcut out11:56
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BCMMwow, modest is very usable (for reading) using ctrl+shift+blue+L forced-portrait12:00
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dado7hi people. is posible video calls with amsn ? or other ways or programs ?12:02
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MohammadAGBCMM, CTRL+SHIFT+R for apps12:03
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MohammadAGand yes, it is usable12:03
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MohammadAGthe New message button is broken though, and Message details don't show12:04
BCMMMohammadAG: odd, ctrl+shift+blue+L seems to work12:04
MohammadAGthat forces rotation without doing anything to that12:04
MohammadAGto the window*12:04
MohammadAGCTRL+SHIFT+R sets the rotation flag12:04
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BCMMMohammadAG: the "rotation flag" is the X11 window flag saying the window can rotate, right?12:05
MohammadAGyeah12:05
BCMMcan it unset it too?12:05
MohammadAGsame shortcut, CTRL+SHIFT+R12:05
BCMMheh, you can get microB to show the portrait interface, in landscape12:06
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dschoepeafter installing the easy-debian image (which did not complete successfully) the file system was set to read only and there were some error messages of attempting to write beyond the end of the device,12:37
dschoepedoes this indicate a hardware problem?12:37
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BCMMwhat does the "is_cool" setting in transitions.ini mean?12:45
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mc_teoDocScrutinizer: that thing with my sim card error is happening again12:46
mc_teowell honestly, it never stopped12:46
mc_teoheres my dmesg log: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/34321512:47
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MohammadAGBCMM, i have no idea12:51
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Hoxzereh.... can somebody explain me why http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/armel/maemo-sdk-rootstrap_5.0_armel.tgz no longer exists?13:00
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Hoxzerasking question on IRC always help me to find the solution myself, new url: http://repository.maemo.org/stable/5.0/armel/maemo-sdk-rootstrap_5.0_20.2010.36-2_armel.tgz13:07
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Hoxzerbtw debian-squeeze maemo-sdk package still uses that old url13:11
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dschoepeDo the easy-debian images still work for you? Unpacking them on the device fails and causes the filesystem to be remounted read-only and when trying to unlzma either of them on my desktop, I get "lzma: Decoder error"13:13
RobbieThe1stIt worked for me. I had to edit the code and extract it -from- the MyDocs -to- the SD card, but it worked13:17
dschoepeWhich one did you use? I tried debian-m5-v3e and debian-m5-v3d.13:18
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RobbieThe1stMind, lzma on the N900 is annoying - there's no "output file" option - I had to use the option to pipe it to STDOUT and then do '> /path/to/outfile.img'13:18
RobbieThe1stI've done both13:18
dschoepeI find it strange that decompression on the desktop also fails13:19
dschoepeI checked the md5sums, the downloaded files should be uncorrupted13:19
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MohammadAGsigh, C is mindfuck13:27
* lcuk washes MohammadAG's mouth out with soap and water13:27
ruskieno brainfuck in mindfuck ;)13:27
MohammadAGwell, GLib, sorry :p13:28
MohammadAGwhy does this error out? mafw_playlist_shuffle (this->mafw_playlist, GError *);13:28
MohammadAGgboolean            mafw_playlist_shuffle               (MafwPlaylist *playlist, GError **error);13:29
lcukMohammadAG, I hope you are passing something into GError13:29
lcukand then, hopefully it will tell you the reason13:29
MohammadAGerror: expected primary-expression before '*' token13:30
MohammadAGguess I'm not? :P13:30
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dschoepeMohammadAG: the second argument should be a pointer to a GError struct13:31
dschoepetry declaring a GError err; before and then using &err as second argument to mafw_playlist_shuffle13:32
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dschoepeoh, wait it expects a pointer to a pointer to a GError13:32
dschoepeso GError * err_ptr; and then passing &err_ptr should work if I understand this correctly13:33
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MohammadAGoh yay13:38
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MohammadAGthanks13:38
MohammadAGdidn't notice the ** part13:38
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trxany idea on how may i "disable" Alt+Sym dialog for a certain control (or maybe the whole app)?13:56
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MohammadAGcapture input of blue key yourself?14:07
MohammadAG(not sure how)14:07
MohammadAGh(ow)tf are MafwPlaylist and MafwPlaylistManager related14:10
lcuktrx, why do you need to do that out of interest?14:10
MohammadAGactually, MafwPlaylist and MafwProxyPlaylist14:11
trxbecause i have a custom memo control14:11
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trxwhich cant ( dont know why) recieve the input from that dialog14:11
trxso i'll have to recreate it myself for that one control..14:11
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trxthat one thing is left for me to fix and the first proper version of TxPad can be released :)14:14
trxnow Qt not gtk based :)14:14
trxif anyone even knows about it here :)14:15
ruskieTxPad?14:16
ruskiewhat's that?14:16
trxmy code editor14:16
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trxfor n90014:17
ruskieahh for those that don't use vim ;)14:17
trxi dont like vim so i made my own editor14:18
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trxis there a way i can use libconic with qt?14:22
trxnevermind, i should learn to use search better14:24
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MohammadAGsigh14:33
MohammadAGhow do I create an instance of MafwPlaylist14:33
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cos^what was the fix for scratchbox's "tset: unknown terminal type xterm14:45
cos^" issue?14:45
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fluxexport TERM=vt102 ?-)15:36
xkr47old-school knowledge :)15:38
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lcukxkr47, most likely muscle memory lol ( @ flux )16:00
xkr47virtual muscle16:02
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pupnikhttp://i.imgur.com/TYHiB.jpg  n900 abuse (how do people manage to do this?)16:03
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕16:05
DocScrutinizerpupnik: ouch16:06
pupnikebay auction :)  "unit turns on"16:06
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edheldilcarried in the same pocket as keys, I guess16:07
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pupnikno, the entire case is bent - person must have thrown it into the ground with all his might - or run over it with a car, or similar16:08
pupnikmine dropped several times and looks fine16:08
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DocScrutinizerI'm temped to bid 5 bucks :-P16:13
SpeedEvilhttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N900-Boxed-NO-RESERVE-Faulty-Spares-Repairs-/140514471796?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item20b750af74 - broken ribbon?16:14
SpeedEvilor partly16:14
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DocScrutinizeryep, by something scratching the screen backside tin cover. Also he can't make calls might mean SIMlock16:19
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psycho_oreosmicrob doesn't support xul doesn't it? I can see there's stuff for xul but there's no specific indication of which version does it use. Neither does showpkg show anything about microb-engine depending on libxul16:21
DocScrutinizerSIMlock is burried somewhere in cmt FW, and the flag setting it is in a config area inside cmt that's not cleared when reflashing cmt FW16:21
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: that's a question clearly best addressed to timeless_office16:22
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, because he works/used to work at nokia or something?16:23
DocScrutinizerbecause afaik he wrote microB16:24
psycho_oreosahh16:24
psycho_oreosthanks, well I'll try pinging him if he's around16:25
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pupnikthe E7 and "N9 prototype" are so great looking... wish they'd get something out the door16:26
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nid0the e7 is out the door16:27
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pupniksorry i meant the 'meego' e7 style thingy16:28
pupnika new device program a la "the OS isn't ready yet, but you can work on it" would be awesome16:29
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trxum, does anyone know which key is the blue arrow?16:30
SpeedEvilThe one with the blue arrow on it.16:31
villagerit's on the left side...16:31
trxseriously16:31
trxi mean like its a representation of which key16:32
trxAltGr, right alt, etc16:32
DocScrutinizernow is there any youtube video of Gaddafi clown performance with decent subtitles? (I love to listen to his أكره هراء جنون العظمة  voice, but alas I don't understand it16:32
DocScrutinizer)16:33
nid0most news sites have the video with a translator over the top16:33
edheldilDocScrutinizer:  thanks16:33
edheldil;--)16:33
pupniktrx: there's an x program that helps you see that16:34
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pupnikxev16:35
trxi actually need which shift modifier is applied when i press "blue arrow" + some key16:35
Aranelwhich is the best/newest Android port for N900? xMasDroid, NITDroid Gingerbread or something else?16:35
trxblue arrow = 22716:35
trxbut i have no use of that information16:35
trxpupnik ill look into it, ty16:36
pupnikfor e.g. if i press left alt, xev returns  keycode 64 (keysym 0xffe9, Alt_L)16:36
villagertrx: well, if you want a computer analog, then it's a bit like the Fn key on a laptop16:36
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villagertrx: for keymap purposes you can probably consider it kind of like altgr though16:36
trxtried altGr with no luck :(16:37
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villagertrx: well, it isn't altgr... I only meant it is mapped to a similar level-shift modification of the other keys16:38
pupnikvillager: we knew that thanks16:39
pupnikAltGr is  keycode 108 (keysym 0xfe03, ISO_Level3_Shift)16:40
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villagerpupnik: if trx knew, maybe he should have made it clearer? anyway... looks like the rx-51 keymaps refer to it as right-alt16:44
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pupniknice, ty villager16:45
trxi saw that, its not right alt16:46
trxat least on non hildon level i dont recieve right alt16:46
villagerbut it's officially a "Fn" key, they just use the ralt_switch semantics16:46
villagertrx: what are you using to test?16:47
DocScrutinizerkeyboard is quite messed up, from matrix to blue key to NK-Enter bug16:47
trxcustom qt app16:47
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DocScrutinizeresp the matrix is a riddle to me, why it's so fsckdup weird16:50
dschoepespeaking of the keyboard, is there a way to configure it to require two Fn key-presses before Fn lock is released?16:50
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DocScrutinizerhahaha16:50
dschoepethat would be very handy when, e.g. entering ip adresses16:51
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DocScrutinizeryou bet it would be, also controlling indicator LED to show current state of qualifier(-lock) would be nice16:51
dschoepehmm, let me guess, the keyboard drivers are part of the closed portion of maemo?16:52
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villagertrx: how are you trying to find the keycode then?16:52
DocScrutinizerdschoepe: It seemed to me like that's the case, though I never checked16:53
trxi dont need its key, the key is 22716:53
trxi need to know which shift state it represents16:53
villagertrx: ISO_Level3_Shift?16:53
DocScrutinizertrx: isn't there a lengthy comment somewhere in rx51-keymap or what it's caled?16:54
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DocScrutinizertrx: I'm sure you are aware of the wiki howto for changing keymaps16:55
trxyes16:55
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DocScrutinizercheck the files referred there, they have info16:55
trxill check that again16:55
villagertrx: ISO_Level3_Shift happens to be mapped to Mod5 on my device right now, fwiw16:56
trxok, ty16:56
trxill give it a try16:56
pupnikSpeedEvil: you in uk?  this is a good deal http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N900-Mobile-Phone-/160550435747?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item25618d3ba317:03
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khertanHello all !17:08
villagerhas anyone written anything for doing online directory lookups on whoever's calling (so I know whether it's a telemarketer etc), or would I have to write it myself?17:08
SpeedEvilpupnik: I already have one17:09
trxgreat... i get no shift modifier at all17:10
trxill have to manualy create it..17:10
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trxi guess its only a key and hildon does the rest manually17:11
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DocScrutinizertrx: kbd has multilayered drivers cooking and mangling things in several ways. In all OS I checked so far, it's a PITA17:15
trxit really is a PITA :/17:16
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DocScrutinizerseriously, it takes me one whle day of reading docs and manpages, each time I try to wrap my head around how *exactly* input in linux works17:20
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Dassuoke guys....17:20
Dassuhttp://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/problems_running_qmake_inside_scratchbox-and_outside/17:20
DocScrutinizerpossibly another two until I found out about mayor diffs between specs/docs and reality ;-)17:21
Dassuso, why in gods name don't we have binary qmake for arm arch?17:21
trxyeah, i never manage to stay focused when i try to work that out, i get frustrated and just skip it..17:22
trxnow its only thing left i have to do it :/17:22
trxit's the only*17:22
trxexcuse my english btw..17:23
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DocScrutinizernm17:24
DocScrutinizeron a sidenote that's the perfect explanation why I never made it to check if those parts are blobs or foss in maemo17:26
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DocScrutinizerwouldn't even know if I'm looking for the right thing17:26
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trx:)17:27
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DocScrutinizerdschoepe: one thing's for sure: the blue+ctrl function has to be rather low in that driver stack, and it's for sure giving you layering hell to call ind-LED in a compatible way, from that (probably kernel-)level of the input processing stack17:30
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DocScrutinizers/blue+ctl/blue|shift-double/17:31
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SpeedEvilIs there a mechanical sketching program for n00?17:31
SpeedEvil^917:32
DocScrutinizerumm17:32
trxit would be really nice if there is some kind of signal i can send to hildon or w/e is controling the symbol dialog17:32
DocScrutinizerlike in CAD?17:32
SpeedEvilyes17:32
trxand tell it not to show up :/17:32
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: a ice-to-have yet unheard17:37
DocScrutinizernice-to*17:37
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DocScrutinizerhad sth like that on palmpilot17:37
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DocScrutinizereven with dimension-values17:38
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alteregolol http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-1255449917:39
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DocScrutinizer"In some circumstances it renders the phone completely unusable and can't be restored to a previous version," COOOOL17:41
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DocScrutinizeroriginal M$ crap17:41
* alterego chuckles17:42
DocScrutinizercondolences Nokia for that technology partner17:42
BCMM_one of the cool things about the n900 is the ability to recover from various states, imho17:42
alteregoI think Nokia will test the updates first anyway ;)17:42
SpeedEvilk17:42
DocScrutinizersure!!!!!!!17:42
Sc0rpiusI've heard Windows Phone 7 have neither flash nor HTML5 what kind of crap is that17:42
BCMM_"bricked" mine by doing something stupid with the kernel, no problem, reflashed kernel...17:43
alteregoBCMM_: definitely, unfortunately this is probably something that Nokia won't add to any other handsets outside maemo/meego ..17:43
SpeedEvilFirst WP7 phone is OTA 900 surprise!17:43
villagerDocScrutinizer: I doubt the ctrl-sym key needs to be deep in the driver stack, it can be intercepted on the X level (for a system-wide intercept, XGrabKey() can be used)17:43
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lcukBCMM_, do you really think normal people could do that?17:43
BCMM_lcuk: you mean do something stupid with the kernel, right?17:44
DocScrutinizervillager: I meant the sym-lock / shift-lock17:44
lcukBCMM_, recover from such an error17:44
BCMM_i mean, it's safe to play if you're bright enough to play17:44
alteregoQuim said something interesting on the meego forums, he seemed to imply that the next device will be capable of running a complete foss distro (though he added there may still be a few closed components)17:44
alteregoWhich makes me think it probably wont be a phone, he skirted round that issue somewhat17:44
lcuklinux should not laugh at Windows until Linux is strong and does not require incantation of ancient runes.17:44
villagerDocScrutinizer: ok... well I think that's a feature that can be enabled in regular desktop X servers too...17:44
alteregolcuk: but that is what makes it so fun! :D17:45
BCMM_is the n900 not capable of "running" a totally free distro, if you didn't need X and phone calls?17:45
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alteregoBCMM_: well, maybe, but sgx is closed also, so the device would be pretty limited, that and wifi/bluetooth firmware etc.17:45
DocScrutinizervillager: the problem is not about enabling the feature, it *is* enabled. The question is where to tweak things to change/augment the behaviour17:46
BCMM_alterego: huh, is firmware a big deal? is it licensed so as not to br redistributable?17:46
BCMM_i mean, firmware is an open hardware rather than open software issue17:47
alteregoBCMM_: dunno :)17:47
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DocScrutinizerthe eten Glofiish M800 had a nice way this locks worked. They actually flashed the LED when it's locked, and lighted steady when it's just a sticky qualifier for next keypress (I.E. *not* doublepressed). To lock AND unlock you had to doublepress the qualifier key, and a single press just inverted state for next keypress. Exactly what dschoepe(?) was asking for, and what I suggested since 12 months17:49
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Necc[16:31] <SpeedEvil> Is there a mechanical sketching program for n00? <-- like package "atlc" ?17:50
SpeedEvilhttp://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=atlc17:51
SpeedEvilGives no hits17:51
dschoepeDocScrutinizer: yes, that is exactly what I want (except for that I don't care much about the LED displaying it)17:51
Neccit is a normal debian package17:51
DocScrutinizerdschoepe: it's mad usefull to not lose "sync" with state :-)17:51
SpeedEvilOooh!17:51
SpeedEvilhttp://atlc.sourceforge.net/17:51
SpeedEvilIs really, really cool looking.17:51
SpeedEvilThough completely unrelated to my actual question.17:52
SpeedEvilArbitrary transmission line calculator.17:52
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SpeedEvilTransmission lines, including directional couplers, of arbitrary  cross section and an arbitrary number of dielectrics can be analysed  with atlc. The impedance Zo of a two-conductor transmission line, as  well as the odd-mode, even-mode, differential mode and common mode  impedances of a directional coupler can all be computed with atlc. Tools  to both analyse and synthesise directional couplers are available. atlc  is primarily a UNIX or linux progra17:52
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DocScrutinizerumm, I know what's a transmission line ;-D17:53
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Neccwell you said something "mechanical"17:53
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SpeedEvilYes, I know, but it does a bit more than that.17:53
Necci had no idea what do you meaned "something mechanical" so i came up with that17:53
SpeedEvilCompletely arbitrarily shaped is rather different.17:53
BCMM_oh, mechanical sketching as in diagrams/blueprints17:55
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BCMM_i thought it was something to do with nonphotorealistic rendering17:55
SpeedEvilthat sort of thing, yes17:55
BCMM_you know, faux pencil sketches, drawn by a machine...17:55
DocScrutinizer(TL) btw another nice effect in antenna design usually not taken into account. Antennae are one huge cluster of TLs17:55
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DocScrutinizerincl cabling and driver output circuitry17:56
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DocScrutinizeradmittedly those TLs are usually next to zero for their transformation function quality17:57
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* DocScrutinizer wonders idly if atlc can also calculate acoustic TLs17:59
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SpeedEvilI saw the modeling of a human circulatory system the other day as transmission lines.18:00
SpeedEvilIncluding diagnosing circulatory problems by looking at the pulse-shape inv arious preripheral vasculature.18:00
DocScrutinizerwhat's a human circulatory system? The blood thing?18:01
SpeedEvilyes18:01
DocScrutinizerhehe nice18:01
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DocScrutinizeranalyzing the finite-pulse-response (hehe) of that TL and deducing the TL's parameters from it18:03
DocScrutinizernifty18:03
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mc_teoDocScrutinizer: that thing with my sim card error is happening again18:06
mc_teowell honestly, it never stopped18:06
mc_teoheres my dmesg log: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/34321518:06
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DocScrutinizermc_teo: I checked that dmesg and can't find any related stuff in it18:07
mc_teowell ive tried many sim cards in it18:07
mc_teoand all give same error18:07
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mc_teomy phone has been on for a few hours now, shall i post dmesg log again?18:09
mc_teonew log: http://paste.pocco.org/show/343367/18:09
mc_teosorry: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/343367/18:10
DocScrutinizerI see a lot of strange mess regarding WL1251 and regulatory (US) in there, but still not a single line regarding modem18:13
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mc_teoi only flashed it recently18:14
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villagerDocScrutinizer: interestingly, according to a t.m.o thread, the stickiness of the n900 lock keys are handled in a gtk input method (plugin), not in the X server or driver stack... wonder why nokia did that...18:14
DocScrutinizerinteresting18:15
mc_teoand havent done anything with wireless drivers, since two flashes ago18:15
mc_teoanything i could do to make some SIM card related entries appear?18:15
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DocScrutinizersorry, I don't know (not done much of diving into that topic yet)18:16
DocScrutinizermaybe ask SpeedEvil18:16
DocScrutinizeriirc he had similar problem18:17
mc_teoSpeedEvil: are thou present?18:17
DocScrutinizeralso ShadowJK18:17
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mc_teookay, thanks18:18
DocScrutinizermc_teo: are you using global firmware?18:18
DocScrutinizerthere've been several reports about issues with modem, when using US firmware version - iirc18:20
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DassuShould libqt4-dev contain working qmake? Mine reports "bash: /usr/bin/qmake: No such file or directory" When in fact the file exists and it is a binary: "/usr/bin/qmake: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.2.0, stripped"18:20
DocScrutinizerotoh the US vesion might come with a special cmt FW version that tries to fix issues specific to US fubar'ed GSM bands and protocols situation18:21
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RST38h...Despite the "catastrophic" damage, one of the film's operating assumptions is that defeat is avoidable as long as the adversary cannot impose its "will" on the United States...18:21
mc_teoDocScrutinizer: i flashed it with Global firmware yes18:23
DocScrutinizerRST38h: now that's a really non-thrilling one18:23
DocScrutinizermc_teo: so - assuming you live in USA - it might be worth to give US version a try (if there's such a thing like US version, which I'm not sure about)18:24
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mc_teoDocScrutinizer, nah, I live in Ireland18:24
mc_teoRX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin is the one I used18:25
DocScrutinizerooh, so never mind18:25
mc_teoand RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin before that18:25
SpeedEvilmc_teo: About what?18:25
mc_teomy SIM Card isnt being read18:25
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SpeedEvilmc_teo: I'vehad occasional SIMproblems - but they seem to now have gone away for no reason at all.18:26
mc_teowhen turning n900 on, it takes ages to load, (>3 x usual time)18:26
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SpeedEvilI would suggest you clean the SIM contacts with a pencil erasor, or similar. (on the SIM itself, and really gently on the n90018:26
mc_teoand then gives an error, that all communication have failed, and rebooting might solve the problem18:26
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mc_teoi first got this on the 4th of Feburary18:27
BCMM_doesn't rubber produce static when rubbed against the plastic bits of a SIMcard?18:27
DocScrutinizernah18:27
mc_teoand have trying different SIM cards too18:27
DocScrutinizerthe "blue" erasers with fine sand are ok for this18:28
DocScrutinizerand glas fibre erasers as well, if used gnetly18:29
DocScrutinizergently*18:29
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mc_teojust turning it back on18:31
DocScrutinizeralso xou can check if the SIM holder contacts have enough force and are protruding from plastic far enoiugh and equally. You can adjust this by **carefully** bending these srings outwards a bit18:31
mc_teoi know by the time it remains inresponsive that it wouldnt work18:31
DocScrutinizersprings*18:31
mc_teo"All telephony functions, including emergency calls, are disabled due to a communication error. To recover, you might have to reboot the device"18:32
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DocScrutinizerlemme put it this way: the holes in the thin steel SIM holder are there for a reason, the spring contacts should reach out through the holes when no SIM inserted18:33
DocScrutinizerjust a little bit18:33
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DocScrutinizeryeah, either your SIM incl contacts etc has a problem, or your modem firmware or hw has some defect18:34
DocScrutinizeryou can reflash the modem firmware18:34
DocScrutinizerthere might have been a weak block in modem's flash storage that lost a few bits, so reflashing FW might actually help18:35
mc_teoDocScrutinizer: well i have tried different SIMs18:36
SpeedEvilmc_teo: Where in the world are you?18:36
mc_teoIreland18:36
DocScrutinizerireland18:36
DocScrutinizermc_teo: diff SIMs of diff carriers?18:36
mc_teono, but i can try?18:37
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DocScrutinizerthere are known cases where a whole series of SIM was flawed18:37
mc_teoyeah, my one is a few years old. 6 or more18:38
mc_teoi tried it with a new one, just taken out of packet in shop, same thing18:38
DocScrutinizerI'd not expect that problem with Nokia, but anyway - try a different carrier18:38
DocScrutinizerand reflash cellmo FW18:39
SpeedEvilmc_teo: northern, or southern? I'm unsure fo teh warranty in southern.18:40
mc_teoSouthern18:40
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mc_teoyeah, i got it from o2 directly, but use meteor Sim in it18:41
nid0warranty in roi is the same as northern, nokia's warranty covers the whole of europe18:41
mc_teomy das takes care of all the phones in the company so he me n900 at a discount, so i dont know much about where it was bought18:42
mc_teodad*18:42
DocScrutinizerflasher --flash-only=cmt-or-whaever18:42
mc_teoand same problem with o2 sim card18:42
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mc_teoand i tried it with a Three Sim card there a few days ago18:42
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DocScrutinizermc_teo: the key word in that error msg is "incl emergency"18:44
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DocScrutinizermc_teo: even with no SIM at all the modem shall support emergency calls18:44
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DocScrutinizerthis looks like a cmt FW or HW defect18:44
DocScrutinizeror a fsckdup libisi18:45
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DocScrutinizerreflash the cmt FW!18:45
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mc_teookay18:48
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mc_teoso reflash the model firmware?18:48
mc_teomodem*18:48
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mc_teohow can i see corrent argv for --flash-only?18:49
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DocScrutinizerREADME in tgz18:52
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mc_teothis it? http://maemo.org/packages/view/cmt-firmware-rx51/18:52
MohammadAGValid --flash-only options:18:52
MohammadAGnolo, kernel, initfs, rootfs, cmt18:52
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mc_teoshould i use the root file system one, or the SSU one?18:54
MohammadAGuh, what?18:54
mc_teoi presume, the former18:54
mc_teoMohammadAG: http://maemo.org/packages/view/cmt-firmware-rx51/18:54
DocScrutinizerValid --flash-only options:18:55
DocScrutinizer nolo, kernel, initfs, rootfs18:55
DocScrutinizerummm18:55
DocScrutinizeroops, late18:55
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DocScrutinizermc_teo: there has to be a lengthy thread on tmo about recovering cmt from flashing that leaked pre-PR1.218:58
ShadowJKI didn't do any inter-region firmware flashing and had that "All communication disabled" thing. Sent it to nokia, got a new device after 4 weeks19:01
mc_teoyeah, the lady in the shop said i should do that19:01
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mc_teoand that they could repair it to a higher standard than i could19:02
mc_teo:(19:02
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mc_teoDocScrutinizer: I ususally dont like venturing into Talk.maemo.org19:03
mc_teoi dont like the search19:03
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DocScrutinizerthe search of vBulletin® Version 3.8.2 is a bad joke19:04
BCMMi don't like the lengthy threads19:04
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BCMMis there some way i don't know about of finding out which posts have content and which ones rephrase a question from the original post or simply bash/praise nokia, before reading them?19:05
BCMMit needs slashcode-style moderation or something...19:05
mc_teoyep19:06
mc_teoinsta-ban off topics19:06
DocScrutinizermc_teo: probably you should just reflash COMBINEd and watch for diagnostic output related to cmt flashing19:06
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DocScrutinizeras mentioned above it also could be caused by libisi.so or whatevr is involved in communicating to cmt19:08
DocScrutinizermc_teo: so reflash to a clean PR1.2, making sure cmt FW gets reflashed during the process as well. DO NOT restore any backup, test. Depending on the result either check your software (if it works now), or send in the device for hw repair (if it still fails)19:09
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DassuCan somebody help to understand why does armel libqt4-dev contain x86 binaries: http://paste.servut.us/plain/8wxv ?19:15
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alteregoDassu: submit a bug19:18
alteregoDassu: The cross-compilation system has some creases that cause this to happen fairly often ;)19:18
BCMMdo they work, in scratchbox? is it an intentional performance thing?19:19
alteregoOh wait, this isn't meego ..19:19
alteregoIgnore what I said ;)19:19
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trxwhere can i find more info about symbol dialog?19:20
trxis it OSS?19:20
DocScrutinizerafaik it's blob19:21
DocScrutinizermight be wrong19:21
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trxmy custom control doesnt recieve any key from it19:23
trxso i am wondering how does it send the key19:24
trxso i can do... something about it..19:24
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Dassualterego: oh, it was already reported19:24
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Venemohey guys19:30
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Venemoalterego: did you manage to have some time to peek into my code?19:30
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hawaii_shoop shoop.19:56
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hawaii_Is a "spawned windows stealing focus" fix being worked on?19:58
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luke-jrslonopotamus: so you can send me PR1.3 firmware image(s)? :P20:04
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jacekowskiluke-jr: i can20:19
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jacekowskiluke-jr: http://maemo.jacekowski.org/binary/firmware/20:19
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tgalalany news about a gui for CSSU ?20:23
tgalalsettings and stuff20:23
MohammadAGUI's ready, saving isn't20:23
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tgalalMohammadAG, how can I help?20:24
MohammadAGhaven't pushed sources yet :/20:25
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luke-jrjacekowski: k, I'm trusting you have legal auth to distribute it :P20:31
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jacekowskiluke-jr: of course not20:32
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luke-jrx.x20:33
luke-jrwhatever, not my problem20:34
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pupnikhttp://www.securityweek.com/nevercookie-eats-evercookie-new-firefox-plugin    another reason not to use flash20:45
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HtheBMohammadAG: yo20:47
HtheBkeyfe hal20:47
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pupnikthey sure made some strange smartphones in 2004  http://cgi.ebay.de/Motorola-MPx-Windows-Mobile-Smartphone-MPX300-Prototype-/260738796276?pt=DE_Handys_ohne_Vertrag_KM&hash=item3cb53e4af420:58
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hawaii_I remember having one of those.21:02
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hawaii_The keyboard didn't look like it was spawned from Satan's mouth though.21:03
hawaii_It ran PPC2003 and was hella slow, huge like a brick and had shit battery life.21:03
pupnikhttp://cgi.ebay.de/Nokia-aeon-Luxus-Handy-Prototype-einzigartig-/180629134559?pt=DE_Handys_ohne_Vertrag_KM&hash=item2a0e55dcdf    someone selling a Nokia aeon prototype21:04
HtheBchinese prototype21:06
HtheBlol21:06
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pupnikHtheB: it is?  they make a nokia box and logo too?21:11
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HtheBsure21:11
HtheBthey copy everything21:12
ShadowJKeven the icons in the OS21:12
ShadowJKthough not the actual os21:12
HtheBhttp://ciscam-china.com/productshow.asp?pbname=Nokia%20Series&psname=&pid=27021:13
HtheBu cant see the box clearly21:13
HtheBbut it is a "NOKIA" box :)21:13
HtheB:D21:13
HtheBhmmm.. this seems to have a 5300 mainboard xD21:14
HtheBwith a real S40 software21:14
HtheBlol21:14
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hawaii_That is clearly not an 8800 though.21:20
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HtheBhawaii_: http://www.nokiaphoneblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/n97-fake-comparison.jpg21:24
HtheBlol21:24
HtheBdoes anyone know what I have to change from the transistion.ini to get a "rotation" when rotating my phone21:25
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BCMMHtheB: clarify?21:25
HtheBhang on, youtube link21:25
BCMMHtheB: you mean where the image on the screen seems to rotate, staying in the plane of the screen, rather than flipping over?21:26
HtheByeah21:26
HtheBu get the point21:26
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BCMMHtheB: got CSSU?21:27
andre__zaxisrotation = 121:27
andre__forcerotation = 121:27
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BCMMHtheB: yes to the former, no to the latter21:27
BCMMthe second one will make all apps rotate, even ones which are ugly and broken21:27
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andre__HtheB, see http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Features21:28
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BCMMHtheB: anyway, for that effect you need to upgrade to CSSU, and then find zaxisrotation = 0 and change it to 121:29
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HtheBBCMM: upgraded already :p21:30
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HtheBandre__: thnx, let me see the wiki21:31
BCMMHtheB: sorry! assumed you hadn't from the lack of a -ssu in your /whois21:31
HtheBim just using the webchat quickly lol21:31
BCMMHtheB: how up-to-date are you? if you have a zaxisrotation = 0, change it, otherwise, refresh HAM :)21:32
HtheBupdated about an hour ago21:32
BCMMon step ahead of me then :) should work21:33
HtheBapplied the transition21:35
HtheBkilled hildon desktop21:35
HtheBlets see now21:35
trumeeis there any sort of download manager in the repos? Something which will queue my microb downloads21:36
HtheByaaay works21:37
HtheBtrumee: I thought the microb downloads supported that?21:37
trumeeor even some console based program21:37
HtheBthnx BCMM and andre__21:37
trumeeHtheB, really, never checked it21:37
HtheBtrumee: lol21:37
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trumeeHtheB, no it doesnt21:39
pupnikhttp://i.imgur.com/NtL58.jpg  << does that Nokia Aeon prototype really have curved screen?21:39
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trumeeHtheB, it starts downloading everything atonce21:40
HtheByou can pause it :)21:40
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trumeeHtheB, yes.21:40
HtheBand continue later21:40
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chadiHow can I know the frequency limits through the terminal?21:41
HtheBpupnik: I think the screen is flat, and the curve was just the "glass above" the screen21:41
pupnikHtheB: possible i guess, but a great idea design-wise21:41
HtheByeah, but how usefull? :D21:42
SpeedEvilIt is quite possible to make nonrectangular LCD21:42
SpeedEvilIt's just expensive21:42
BCMMpupnik: is it a touchscreen?21:43
BCMMit could have a thing over the screen that is curved21:43
SpeedEvilhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhSKaUfaog421:43
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BCMMlike the old 3410s and so on did21:43
SpeedEvilSee that, for example21:43
HtheBBCMM: only the bottom part afair21:43
BCMMyeah, so the top part could have a glass or plastic cover that is curved21:43
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vi__you see the intensified rumours about the no HW keyboard n9-01?21:44
HtheBvi__: wasnt that already comfirmed?21:44
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HtheBthey discontinued the N9-0021:44
HtheBand the N9-01 wont have hw keyboard21:45
HtheBseems like they had some "problems" with the keyboard slider21:45
HtheB:/21:45
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HtheB(how about just to make an E7 and put MeeGo on it, it has the same keyboard slider!!!!!!!!!)21:45
MohammadAGthere's RM-680, RM-690, RM-69621:46
pupnikHtheB: slightly weak cpu for meego, low res screen21:46
HtheBpupnik: I'm talking about the design ;)21:46
vi__i know, i just dont wanna believe it21:46
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* mst sighs21:46
MohammadAGone might've been canceled, 2 still exist21:46
mstattempting to attached a bluetooth keyboard to an n90021:47
mstI had this same bloody keyboard working before21:47
mstnow I just get 'connect error'21:47
pupnikHtheB: yes, beautiful design, case etc.  would be perfect case for a n950 imho21:47
vi__now they release a lemon n9 sucessor that blows, no one buys it and they say21:47
vi__i told you so21:47
mstand running an equivalent of21:47
mstdbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.bluez /org/bluez/11984/hci0/dev_00_07_61_75_xx_xx org.bluez.Input.Connect21:47
HtheBvi__: source?21:47
msttells me there's no such method21:47
mstdoes anybody have a suggestion where to start figuring out what I screwed up?21:47
vi__delete the connection and try again21:48
vi__HtheB: just search n9-0121:48
HtheBwww.lmgtfy.com/?q=Nokia+N9-0121:49
mstvi__: done that twice.21:49
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* mst does it a third time21:50
mstvi__: bah. "Connection failed to" and nothing else21:52
mstAHA21:53
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* trumee wishes text automatically got copied to clipboard on text selection like linux desktop22:06
trumeewasn't that one of X servers job.22:07
DocScrutinizertrumee: there are two discrete buffers22:11
trumeeDocScrutinizer, on N900 too?22:11
DocScrutinizerthe ctrl-cxv clipboard and the X mmb buffer22:11
Proteousputty on windows can do that22:11
DocScrutinizertrumee: nfc22:11
Proteousthe right click to paste gets me into trouble sometimes22:12
DocScrutinizertrumee: test it with your middle mouse button ;-P22:12
trumeeDocScrutinizer, no h-e-n/bluez mouse here :(22:13
DocScrutinizerduh, you still use PS2-mouse?22:14
HtheBtrackpad ftw22:14
HtheBlol22:14
DocScrutinizerRS232 for the geeks ;-D22:15
Proteousmy mouse connects vis adb22:15
DocScrutinizerbusmouse22:15
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trumeeMy USB mouse starts moving the cursor when idle. PS2 was better22:15
trumeeSeems most usb mice have that issue22:16
DocScrutinizeryeah those were the times where you got a ISA card to connect your mouse    XP22:16
HtheBlol22:16
HtheBmouse is alive!22:16
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MohammadAGhey sjgadsby22:19
HtheBMohammadAG: any possibility to add portrait mode on the password screen?22:19
sjgadsbyHi, MohammadAG.22:19
MohammadAGHtheB, lock screen? it's closed afaik :/22:19
HtheBhmm>.<22:19
HtheB=( thnx22:20
MohammadAGa rewrite shouldn't be hard22:20
HtheBwould be very awesome22:20
JaffaThe lock code bit might be.22:20
Jaffa?22:20
HtheB:D22:20
JaffaSomeone could implement Android-style pattern unlock.22:20
E0xhow lock screen work ?22:21
HtheBJaffa: as long as it is portrait mode :D22:21
MohammadAGit stays on top22:21
MohammadAGthat's it22:21
MohammadAGidk about Gtk, but in Qt, you'd make a QDialog, set it to always on top, make closeEvent() ask to shut down the device, then read the cal entry for lock-code22:22
JaffaMohammadAG: cal gives you the code?!22:22
MohammadAGthen make an init.d script that runs at startup, checks if lock is enabled (probably gconf)22:22
MohammadAGJaffa, DES encrypted, yes22:22
MohammadAGneeds 5 minutes to crack22:22
JaffaMohammadAG: Ah, OK. Probably same key on all ;)22:23
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MohammadAGecho root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1) prints it22:24
HtheBwould it be hard to implement the android like pattern code?22:24
MohammadAGwhat's the android like pattern?22:24
MohammadAGnever tried it22:24
HtheBMohammadAG: hang on22:24
MohammadAGI want the gingerbread fade in lock screen effect22:25
JaffaMohammadAG: 4x4 grid of dots. You can encode a pattern and then you replay it to unlock22:25
HtheBhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0NbEld2UEc22:25
MohammadAGah22:25
HtheBwatch from 0:3322:25
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MohammadAGshould be easy I guess22:26
E0xHtheB: if you rewrite the lock screen i think anything will posible in a not hard way22:26
JaffaClosed version doesn't like Ctrl-Shift-R much ;-)22:27
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HtheBJaffa: yeah :D22:28
MohammadAGI want slide to answer22:28
MohammadAGshould be easy with a patched hildon-desktop22:28
MohammadAGcause I'm not sure how to get on top of the stock answer dialog22:28
HtheBhmm22:29
HtheBso replacing the old lockscreen with a new one would do the job22:29
MohammadAGlockscreen is different22:30
HtheByou mean the lock slider?22:30
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HtheB(pressing power button)22:30
MohammadAGyeah22:31
HtheBwhat do you mean with slide to answer22:31
JaffaHtheB: Phone rings. No button to answer, but a slider22:31
HtheBoh !22:31
HtheByeah22:31
HtheBslide to answer the phone :D22:32
JaffaYup :)22:32
E0x16:30 < MohammadAG> I want slide to answer22:32
HtheByeah, I think everybody has pressed accidently at least one to the reject button22:32
HtheBonce*22:32
MohammadAGhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdTj3d148UI22:32
E0xHtheB: or answer without evey looking who is calling22:33
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denohi there22:35
denois foreseen a new kernel soon?22:36
DocScrutinizerHtheB: I suggested to replace the button widgets with some sliding type ones, for dialer-ui. Either by LDPRELOAD or even by patching the binary22:37
HtheBwould be great :)22:38
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DocScrutinizershouldn't be THAT hard, given all the widgets are from a lib, and you can define custom ones22:39
E0xi am alway want know how that can get done , patch binary ( hex editing it or something ) , i mean not the process of doing it but how know what part is the right one22:39
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DocScrutinizeryou could even patch the lib so the gtkwidget_pushbutton or whatever the object is called, is switching to slider type button on exactly processname==rtcom-dialer-ui && (button_text=="ACCEPT" || button_text=="REJECT")22:44
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DocScrutinizerno patches needed in rtcom-dialer-ui at all then22:44
DocScrutinizerdon't ask me how's that lib called that provides the widgets for dialer-ui22:45
hawaii_Hijack the dbus trigger.22:45
DocScrutinizerbut I'm rather sure it's a lib.so22:45
hawaii_Completely remove the closed sourced binaries that can be.22:46
DocScrutinizerhawaii_: eh? I don't think dialer-ui GUI widgets talk to the "parent process" via dbus22:46
hawaii_Take it over from when an incoming call is initiated.22:47
MohammadAGremember, we don't want to break it22:47
MohammadAGhawaii_, I was thinking of just displaying a new dialog on top of the phone one22:47
hawaii_Kill it and spawn the new application.22:47
MohammadAGkilling it isn't the best way22:47
DocScrutinizerhahaha22:47
hawaii_Okay. Make it lose focus.22:47
MohammadAGhow? that's the problem22:47
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MohammadAGfind me a way, and you have slide to answer done22:48
hawaii_Redrawing over the image might work - but we both know it's an ugly h4x22:48
MohammadAGI even changed set_topmost to get_topmost22:48
hawaii_Within what?22:48
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: patch the buttons, not the communication to telepathy!22:48
MohammadAGrtcom-call-ui.launch22:48
MohammadAGI'm not patching anything DocScrutinizer22:48
MohammadAGI simply want to display two dialogs22:48
MohammadAGthe stock dialog, and the rewrite over it22:49
DocScrutinizerwon't work22:49
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MohammadAGwhy's that22:49
DocScrutinizerI don't need another lockscreen on top of dialer UI22:49
MohammadAGuh, what?22:49
hawaii_I know what he wants to do. It will work just fine.22:49
MohammadAGwe're not talking about lockscreens22:49
HtheBDocScrutinizer: I think you didnt get it22:49
HtheByeah22:49
MohammadAGwe're talking about the answer dialog (yes, it's a dialog)22:50
hawaii_The only issue is forcing the spawned process into the background22:50
DocScrutinizerbut nevertheless you plan to implement one22:50
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MohammadAGforeground*22:50
hawaii_and giving focus to the new one.22:50
MohammadAGuh, no22:50
MohammadAGI plan a Nokia Bubbles clone, but that's not the same as this22:50
MohammadAGwe're talking about different things22:50
MohammadAGhawaii_, it's not spawned22:50
MohammadAGit's simply show()n22:51
MohammadAGor created, whatever22:51
MohammadAGit's still the same dialer application22:51
DocScrutinizerI don't get it what you guys plan to build here, but I see it's not what I like to get22:51
hawaii_okay.22:51
HtheBMohammadAG: tell him one more time :D22:51
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, basically, this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdTj3d148UI22:51
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DocScrutinizerI want my original rtcom-dialer-ui, just with better buttons22:52
MohammadAGwell, you can't22:52
HtheBclosed source22:52
MohammadAGhe prosed a patch to buttons22:52
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: the way you plan to implement that it's a lockscreen at best22:52
MohammadAGthat's patching a library22:52
MohammadAGno DocScrutinizer22:52
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MohammadAGyou're complicating things22:52
MohammadAGI just want another dialog showing over rtcom-call-ui22:53
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MohammadAGwith slide to answer, slide to reject22:53
HtheBSlide to right, answer22:53
HtheBSlide to left, reject22:53
MohammadAGif you answer, it hide()s, the original UI is shown22:53
HtheBjust like the N97 (mini)22:53
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hawaii_MohammadAG: dbus camp, incoming trigger calls wmctrl to force focus to your new dialog.22:53
MohammadAGif you reject, then the original UI also handles the rest22:53
MohammadAGhmm22:53
MohammadAGhawaii_, how do I force focus?22:53
DocScrutinizermeh, and how to propagate this slide to foo to rtcom-dialer-ui to make it accept that as accept button pressed?22:54
MohammadAGdbus22:54
hawaii_dbus22:54
DocScrutinizerBS22:54
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MohammadAGthere are dbus methods to answer and reject a call22:54
hawaii_This will work just fine.22:54
DocScrutinizerthat's not same as pressing buttin in dialer22:54
MohammadAG...22:54
hawaii_WTF are you not understanding dude?22:54
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E0xhehe22:55
E0xthis is funny22:55
DocScrutinizeryour FU rationale22:55
HtheBtrollolol?22:55
hawaii_It's obviously not the complete BEST way to get it done22:55
hawaii_but it will work just fine.22:55
hawaii_MohammadAG: I will e-mail instructs when I get the hijack working.22:56
HtheBDocScrutinizer: when you get a call while your screen is locked, you will get a "Slide to answer" instead of "PUSH to answer"22:56
HtheBthats all .....22:56
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DocScrutinizeruntil I click somewhere else to do something different than what you thought I'm supposed to do22:56
DocScrutinizerHtheB: I want that ALWAYS22:56
DocScrutinizernot only when screen is locked22:56
HtheBDocScrutinizer: could be done22:56
HtheBthats what MohammadAG tries to tell you22:56
HtheB=)22:57
DocScrutinizeryes, by patching the button widget22:57
hawaii_Christ.22:57
MohammadAGI'm not patching anything, feel free to do it22:57
DocScrutinizer[2011-02-23 21:48:21] <MohammadAG> I even changed set_topmost to get_topmost22:57
chadiI don't think it's a good idea, already clicking the button takes a while to respond, especially when the phone is busy with other tasks22:57
HtheBMohammadAG, so tell me, what you gonna do now?22:57
MohammadAGI don't see that released anywhere22:58
MohammadAGchadi, then don't install it22:58
DocScrutinizerrtcom-dialer-ui is trying to get on top, so have fun trying to get on top of it, without patching22:58
MohammadAGI will22:58
HtheBok :D a big challange is heading up :P22:58
hawaii_That's not a challenge at all.22:58
DocScrutinizerand what will happen if I press ctrl-bs while that overlay is active??22:58
hawaii_It should be trivial.22:59
HtheBctrl+bs = ftw22:59
MohammadAGnothing22:59
MohammadAGnothing should happen22:59
MohammadAGas with the original dialog22:59
HtheB:D22:59
DocScrutinizermhhhmmm22:59
hawaii_Okay, how about this22:59
hawaii_When we get it working, you can complain about why you don't like it22:59
MohammadAGheh22:59
MohammadAGhawaii_, any ideas how to gain focus with wmctrl?23:00
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hawaii_wmctrl -l -x23:00
hawaii_You'll need to script it to find the process that jumps out23:00
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DocScrutinizerhawaii_: how about that: if you don't like to discuss how to best implememt something prior to starting on it, why do you come here instead of just starting it and come here when it's done?23:00
MohammadAGand the focusing part?23:00
hawaii_then spawn your overlay, grab that and shove focus23:01
hawaii_DocScrutinizer: Because I'm here to help with discussing it.23:01
DocScrutinizerUHU23:01
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hawaii_DocScrutinizer: What is the point of dashing dreams and putting down an idea?23:01
hawaii_You don't like it - awesome for you. Don't use it.23:01
DocScrutinizerhawaii_: you're sounding utterly silly23:02
hawaii_Be that as it may be.23:02
DocScrutinizerI explained what I think how to implemnt it, btw not first time23:02
hawaii_I'm providing assistance to MohammadAG23:02
hawaii_You're providing unconstructive criticism.23:02
DocScrutinizerI explained what I see possible problems with your solution23:02
DocScrutinizerhawaii_: you're providing BS targeted at me23:03
hawaii_I must go now.23:03
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hawaii_Perhaps we can discuss this later.23:03
MohammadAG0x0340019f  0 rtcom-call-ui.Rtcom-call-ui  Nokia-N90023:04
HtheBDocScrutinizer: I just want a working thing, doesnt matter how it is done23:04
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DocScrutinizerHtheB: I want a *always* working thing, done in a way so it won't conflict with unforeseen usage patterns23:05
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, no one's stopping you from doing it23:05
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: orly?!23:06
MohammadAGyesrly23:06
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: nobody is stpping YOU from shooting your own foot23:06
MohammadAGI didn't complain23:07
DocScrutinizeroh you didn't? [2011-02-23 21:48:21] <MohammadAG> I even changed set_topmost to get_topmost23:07
MohammadAGthe fuck does that matter to you?23:07
MohammadAGit didn't work, big whoop23:07
DocScrutinizermeh, I got better things to do than to argue with a bunch of devels about why they don't want to think about better concepts to implement something than what they were able to figure right away23:09
MohammadAGbelieve me, I too have better things23:09
HtheBguys, come on23:09
MohammadAGAgain, no one's stopping you from doing it, feel free to do it yourself23:09
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HtheBDocScrutinizer: show that your idea is better and implement it23:09
MohammadAGI for one, am not changing the whole gtk library23:09
HtheBMohammadAG: do your wn stuff too and show which one is better23:10
jo-erlendI have downloaded a .jar-file. It's a java applet frontend for anyremote. I've installed Icedtea6. What else do I need to do?23:10
MohammadAGHtheB, this isn't a competition23:10
HtheBMohammadAG: I know, but this will only give us better opportunities :)23:10
MohammadAGHtheB, I do what I want to do, I'm open to criticism, this isn't criticism23:10
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HtheBwell, im not complaining about anything :P23:11
HtheBIm just an end-user23:11
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* HtheB hides23:11
HtheBLove all the work that has been done by everyone :)23:12
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laustHi everyone23:15
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lausti'd like to send incoming SMS to the computer with notify-send, has anyone seen something like that?23:16
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pupnikit was definitely good for me to look at other things to appreciate maemo23:21
HtheBmaemo ftw23:21
javispedrobaa23:21
MohammadAGmoo23:21
HtheBcoockle-doodle-doo23:22
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MohammadAGthe sun's not up, STFU!23:23
MohammadAG:p23:23
HtheB=(23:23
HtheBthe sun is rising somewhere :p23:23
HtheBMohammadAG23:25
HtheBmeow23:25
MohammadAGyeah, the north pole23:25
javispedrolol, nokiaplanq23:25
HtheBdo you know how to make the background gray23:26
HtheB(transistions)23:26
HtheBwhen you're in the Menu23:26
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javispedrobut funniest is nokiaplanX23:28
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javispedrothose who started with BASIC will surely remember the data, read commands...23:28
javispedrofun, fun.23:28
HtheBMohammadAG?23:30
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Sc0rpiuswell I do remember BASIC23:33
Sc0rpiusmy first computer was a Sinclair ZX-81, then I had a TRS-80 Color Computer and finally a Commodore 6423:33
MohammadAGHtheB, change blurness to 123:33
Sc0rpiusall 3 of them: BASIC though I used assembler for each one23:33
HtheBMohammadAG: it is already on23:33
* RST38h moos evilly23:33
HtheBon 1 *23:33
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MohammadAGrestarted the desktop?23:34
HtheByup23:34
HtheBand you mean blurless :p?23:34
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MohammadAGSell Symbian to facebook LOL23:34
MohammadAGHtheB, yeah23:35
HtheByup, it's on 123:35
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HtheBMohammadAG, it's not your fault or so that the gray doesnt show up. It's just that I applied the "Theme customize" fast transitions.23:36
MohammadAGoh23:36
HtheBbut Maybe there is just 1 option that isn't right, which shows the background just "normal"23:36
MohammadAGedit /etc/hildon/theme/transitions.ini23:36
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HtheBblurless is also 1 over there23:37
HtheBhang on, ill show u23:38
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HtheB(what was the code again for pastebin?)23:39
MohammadAGhmm?23:39
MohammadAGcat file | pastebinit?23:39
HtheBthnx23:39
MohammadAGyw :)23:39
HtheBwas tryin pastebin.com23:39
HtheBlol23:39
HtheBlink23:39
MohammadAGheh23:39
HtheBhttp://pastebin.com/tGE91ETz23:39
HtheBDo'h!23:39
HtheBhttp://pastebin.com/tGE81ETz23:40
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HtheBwth?23:40
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HtheBhttp://pastebin.com/eiYd2YiL23:40
HtheBfinally ¬¬23:40
HtheBthat is the one on /etc/hildon/theme/transitions.ini23:41
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MohammadAGkillall hildon-desktop23:41
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HtheBand this one is from /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini       http://pastebin.com/3eLB2tAq23:42
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HtheBI already killed the destop a lot :(23:46
HtheBalso rebooted23:46
javispedromoo RST38h23:47
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RST38hHey javispedro23:47
HtheBis it saturation?23:47
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DocScrutinizerI'd laugh my ass off when it turned out you can change the type of button to sliding-pushbutton in gtk-theme23:48
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: on gtk themes are binaries. you can virtually rm -rf $HOME when drawing a button ;)23:50
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DocScrutinizer:-D23:50
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javispedroM$ choosing error messages as usual: "YOUR PHONE CAN'T BE RESTORED TO THE LATEST SOFTWARE RESTORE POINT. YOU CAN NOW DISCONNECT YOUR PHONE."23:51
javispedro(caps their own)23:51
javispedrohttp://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-temporarily-disables-windows-phone-7-update-for-samsung-devices/23:51
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javispedroFREENODE CAN'T BE RESTORED TO THE LATEST UPTIME RECORD.23:52
javispedroYOU CAN NOW QUIT YOUR IRC CLIENT.23:52
HtheBwtf23:52
SpeedEvilQuack.23:52
rm_worklol23:52
HtheBxD23:52
rm_workfree-pwnt23:52
pupnikfunny how they  broke samsung's wp7 while nokia was giving that presentation23:52
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javispedroonly missing from MS's error message is "YOU MIGHT NOW BRING YOUR PHONE TO NEAREST TRASH"23:53
MohammadAGat least they don't say you're holding it wrong23:53
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HtheBlols23:54
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timelessis anyone here having trouble using nickserv?23:55
rm_workwell23:55
ThreeMovertake?23:55
rm_workthere was a huge netsplit just now23:55
ThreeM;)23:55
rm_work:P23:55
rm_workdunno if that affects things23:55
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ThreeMhehe23:58
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