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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: nope, not according to what I was able to pull outa timeless' nose | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: he clearly said that it's meego subdivision that is building this meego device, and their focus (read product specs) haven't changed recently for that device. So if it's not been Nokia's plan since long ago to ship something completely different than a phone for first meego device, I'd guess chances it is now are marginal | 00:05 |
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| javispedro | Nokia and plan on the same sentence should trigger a SIGALRM | 00:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually it triggered a SIGSEGV | 00:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and yes, I know this from my own time at some other hw manufacturer, there's no use in putting any statements, as you never know what ideas mgmt got tomorrow | 00:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nevertheless all this doesn't invalidate my rationale above, I think | 00:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also - there was the above-mentioned quote in the statement saying that it was a phone, in passing. | 00:10 |
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| * javispedro 's Phone 7 SDK download is at 95%... it's about that time everything dies abruptly so that I have to redownload | 00:13 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 00:13 |
| thomasjfox | javispedro: It doesn't want you to download it! Try the meego SDK, that one will finish 100% | 00:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: don't you think that's all part of the masterplan? Tomorrow M$ comes up with "3 mio downloads of WP7 SDK in only 4 days. Microkia great success at developers'" | 00:14 |
| javispedro | 3 million downloads from 2 different IPs only! | 00:15 |
| javispedro | 127.0.0.1 and mine! | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahahahahaha | 00:15 |
| lardman | lol | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's YOU who builds their success :-P | 00:16 |
| * trumee likes the Tesco app in android market. Much easier to use then let javascript kill MicroB | 00:17 | |
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| javispedro | No, NO, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 00:17 |
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| nox- | http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/mobile/02/15/lg.optimus.3d/ | 00:17 |
| javispedro | "Error code 00500. A unknown error happened with" (yes, dialog box ends there) | 00:17 |
| MohammadAG | A unknown? | 00:18 |
| MohammadAG | epic spelling | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ROTFL, M$ at its finest | 00:18 |
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| MohammadAG | javispedro, wget -c? | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually it feels like it's ever been like this | 00:18 |
| javispedro | I am using their crappy downloader | 00:18 |
| nox- | what DocScrutinizer said | 00:18 |
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| javispedro | and the file is gone | 00:19 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 00:19 |
| javispedro | ok, fsck this. | 00:19 |
| lardman | anyone know if the N900 has a wpa_supplicant.conf file anywhere? | 00:19 |
| MohammadAG | why not sniff it | 00:19 |
| MohammadAG | and use wget | 00:19 |
| MohammadAG | it doesn't use WS lardman | 00:19 |
| lardman | drat | 00:19 |
| lardman | thanks MohammadAG | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc javispedro is using wpa_supp | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-) | 00:20 |
| * MohammadAG rms javispedro's wpa_supplicant | 00:21 | |
| MohammadAG | not anymore | 00:21 |
| javispedro | I'm no longer using it since I don't have the need any more, but it's still around | 00:21 |
| lardman | yeah, but he's not using my AP afaik! ;) | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: you might be wrong though :-P | 00:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lardman: have you checked recently? | 00:22 |
| lardman | true :D | 00:23 |
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| lardman | ok, I've another good question for you knowledgeable chaps | 00:24 |
| lardman | ;) | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | shoot | 00:25 |
| * DocScrutinizer is bored | 00:25 | |
| lardman | how do I get a cursor to appear in vi? Or indeed on my terminal at all | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, cursor like in xterm? | 00:26 |
| lardman | yep | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://inz.fi/blog/category/geeky/maemo/maemo-hackers/osso-xterm/ is all I can share | 00:27 |
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| lardman | ah, I don't want a binary, I just would like to see the cursor in vi when I log into my Tab running Meego | 00:28 |
| nox- | lardman, maybe the xterm needs a `reset' | 00:28 |
| lardman | would make it easier to edit files | 00:28 |
| alterego | What ever happened to inz | 00:28 |
| lardman | nox-: nah done that | 00:28 |
| nox- | oh | 00:28 |
| nox- | ok i know nothing about meego's xterm... | 00:28 |
| lardman | not xterm | 00:29 |
| nox- | maybe its b0rked somehow? | 00:29 |
| lardman | command line login | 00:29 |
| nox- | well, terminal emulator | 00:29 |
| lardman | np | 00:29 |
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| MohammadAG | umm | 00:30 |
| MohammadAG | what awk/sed magic do i do on ii mp-fremantle-community-pr 20.2010.36-2maemo11 Community SSU package, includes latest fixes from Gitorious and the community to get the version? | 00:30 |
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| alterego | awk '{print $3}' | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | cut | 00:31 |
| MohammadAG | Nokia-N900:/usr/lib/hildon-control-panel# dpkg -l mp-fremantle-community-pr | tail -1 | sed 's/ /\n/g' | grep maemo | 00:31 |
| MohammadAG | 20.2010.36-2maemo11 | 00:31 |
| MohammadAG | looks nasty :p | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | or what alterego said | 00:31 |
| MohammadAG | actually Nokia-N900:/usr/lib/hildon-control-panel# dpkg -l mp-fremantle-community-pr | sed 's/ /\n/g' | grep maemo | 00:32 |
| MohammadAG | 20.2010.36-2maemo11 | 00:32 |
| LjL | any hint how i might feed information into the gpsd? i basically want to make the system believe i'm in a certain location, even if there's no actual GPS fix (on the N810) | 00:32 |
| * javispedro tries to as MohammadAG to find what the download server is, points wget to it and finds 3KiB/sec speeds | 00:33 | |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, should be done by next MWC! | 00:34 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, ty | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | LjL: there's no gpsd | 00:34 |
| LjL | no gpsd? wow, i must have gotten it all real wrong :D | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | you could write a liblocation substitute and LDPRELOAD it | 00:34 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: N810 | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | MEH | 00:35 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: dpkg -l $target | grep '^ii' | awk '{print $3}' | 00:35 |
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| aveny | hi there | 00:35 |
| LjL | ah, i really did believe there was a gpsd :P | 00:35 |
| LjL | why's it been removed in N900? that seems silly to me | 00:35 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: will return 0 string if the package is not installed. | 00:35 |
| LjL | although N900 does have GeoClue, doesn't it? | 00:35 |
| alterego | 0 length sng that is | 00:35 |
| javispedro | LjL: http://gypsy.freedesktop.org/why-not-gpsd.html | 00:36 |
| alterego | LjL: does on MeeGo | 00:36 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, I already check if it's installed :) | 00:36 |
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| LjL | javispedro: hmm i see. i don't entirely buy it, in the sense that ditching gpsd is bound to cause fragmentation and go back to a state where you can't access your device using multiple programs, but i guess there is a point. | 00:38 |
| LjL | i wish there was at least geoclue for OS2008 anyway. it seems to be there for OS2007... and i'd really like to have wifi-based location | 00:39 |
| LjL | alterego: ah i had gotten the impression it did on Maemo too | 00:39 |
| javispedro | seriously, seriously, does Nokia expect people to download the wp7 tools? | 00:41 |
| Sc0rpius | seriously, seriously, does Nokia expect people to buy wp7 phones? | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG | how do I add text to chars? | 00:42 |
| MohammadAG | usually in Qt, I use + | 00:42 |
| javispedro | this completely and utterly sucks. I hope they have pendrives or something. | 00:42 |
| aveny | hi guys | 00:42 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: depends | 00:43 |
| aveny | can you tell me what do you use to create patches for the kernel? | 00:43 |
| jacekowski | aveny: diff | 00:43 |
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| javispedro | MohammadAG: g_strconcat? | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: sprintf() | 00:44 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, english? :P | 00:44 |
| Sc0rpius | g_strconcat is a good solution I use that sometimes | 00:44 |
| Sc0rpius | or g_strdup_printf | 00:44 |
| MohammadAG | version = "Version: 20.2010.36-2" + output + "\n"; | 00:44 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: strncat, asprintf | 00:44 |
| MohammadAG | I was thinking that'd work, as with QString | 00:44 |
| aveny | jacekowski, just diff?? | 00:44 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: asprintf | 00:44 |
| jacekowski | aveny: yes | 00:44 |
| javispedro | glib prefers g_strdup_printf over asprintf | 00:44 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: asprintf will be easiest for you because it will handle allocation of memory for you | 00:45 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: you just have to remember to free everything | 00:45 |
| aveny | jacekowski, what if you want to see the final patched code? always diff? | 00:45 |
| MohammadAG | remind me to never touch gtk | 00:45 |
| javispedro | (for the single reason g_strdup_printf comes with glib, which comes with gtk+, while asprintf is nonstandard addition to libc) | 00:45 |
| jacekowski | aveny: i'm not sure what are you talking about | 00:45 |
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| jacekowski | aveny: there is a lot ways of doing it | 00:45 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/unstable/glib-String-Utility-Functions.html | 00:46 |
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| jacekowski | aveny: i think what you will have to do is checkout it from git and then work on it | 00:46 |
| jacekowski | aveny: and then do for example git diff | 00:46 |
| jacekowski | aveny: and that will give you difference between your working copy and specific revision | 00:46 |
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| jacekowski | aveny: but it's quite wide topic | 00:46 |
| aveny | jacekowski, uhm ok | 00:46 |
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| aveny | jacekowski, is there any useful guide? it's not so clear :) | 00:47 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: nah, it's overloading that made everything easy for you | 00:47 |
| jacekowski | aveny: not really | 00:47 |
| jacekowski | aveny: there is git guide | 00:47 |
| jacekowski | aveny: but you first have to know what you want | 00:47 |
| jacekowski | aveny: do you want to write code yourself | 00:47 |
| jacekowski | aveny: or what | 00:47 |
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| aveny | jacekowski, ok.. and.. if I want to modify one nokia patch, should I write another patch or can I just modify that patch? | 00:48 |
| jacekowski | that sort of thing | 00:48 |
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| jacekowski | you ussualy apply all patches | 00:48 |
| aveny | jacekowski, I want modify one file of the kernel | 00:48 |
| jacekowski | modify that file you want | 00:48 |
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| MohammadAG | jacekowski, heh | 00:48 |
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| jacekowski | and diff it with file before your modification and after | 00:49 |
| aveny | uhm and in order to apply all the patches should I checkout that? | 00:49 |
| jacekowski | complicated | 00:49 |
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| jacekowski | and i'm not sure where is that patch | 00:49 |
| jacekowski | you may have to branch it | 00:49 |
| aveny | the patch is this: nokia-20094803.3+0m5.diff | 00:50 |
| aveny | I just want to modify some lines | 00:50 |
| jacekowski | what for? | 00:50 |
| aveny | so I was thinking to modify just that patch instead of modify all | 00:50 |
| jacekowski | just for yourself? | 00:50 |
| aveny | yes | 00:50 |
| aveny | just for me | 00:50 |
| jacekowski | then don't bother | 00:50 |
| jacekowski | just apply all patches | 00:50 |
| jacekowski | modify source | 00:50 |
| jacekowski | and compile it | 00:50 |
| aveny | uhm | 00:51 |
| aveny | the fact is that I can compile only | 00:51 |
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| aveny | using dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us -sa | 00:51 |
| jacekowski | same shit | 00:51 |
| jacekowski | just make it whatever way it will work | 00:51 |
| aveny | if I try to do it with make I get errors | 00:52 |
| jacekowski | as long as nobody else sees it it's ok | 00:52 |
| aveny | uhm | 00:52 |
| jacekowski | then you're doing it wrong | 00:52 |
| jacekowski | read rules file | 00:52 |
| jacekowski | there are some special options for make | 00:52 |
| aveny | I get strange compilation errors | 00:52 |
| aveny | instead using that command I don't so | 00:52 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: why are you trying to join that string before | 00:53 |
| aveny | it's a mess :/ | 00:53 |
| aveny | wait wait wait | 00:53 |
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| jacekowski | aveny: there is wiki entry about compiling your own kernel | 00:54 |
| aveny | if I want to compile with make, should I apply all the patches before typing make? | 00:54 |
| jacekowski | aveny: no | 00:54 |
| alterego | aveny: that command doesn't build | 00:54 |
| aveny | jacekowski, I read it | 00:54 |
| jacekowski | you don't compile with make | 00:54 |
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| aveny | make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 bzImage | 00:54 |
| alterego | make bzImage | 00:54 |
| aveny | this should compile | 00:54 |
| aveny | yes that | 00:54 |
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| alterego | Have you configured it? | 00:55 |
| jacekowski | nope | 00:55 |
| aveny | yes | 00:55 |
| jacekowski | make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 rx51_defconfig | 00:55 |
| aveny | make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 rx51_defconfig | 00:55 |
| jacekowski | that's first | 00:55 |
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| jacekowski | make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 bzImage | 00:55 |
| aveny | I get errors | 00:55 |
| jacekowski | that's second | 00:55 |
| alterego | Ah yes. | 00:55 |
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| jacekowski | what sort of errors | 00:55 |
| aveny | arch/arm/plat-omap/include/mach/pm.h:111:2: error: #error "Power management for this processor not implemented yet" | 00:55 |
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| jacekowski | hmm | 00:56 |
| aveny | I modified the pm.h in order to avoid that error but after there was another linking error | 00:56 |
| aveny | at the end | 00:56 |
| jacekowski | and how you unpacked sources | 00:56 |
| jacekowski | and where you've got them from | 00:56 |
| aveny | apt-get source kernel-power | 00:56 |
| aveny | cd kernel-power-2.6.28/ | 00:57 |
| jacekowski | that should work | 00:57 |
| aveny | fakeroot apt-get build-dep kernel-power | 00:57 |
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| aveny | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us -sa | 00:57 |
| aveny | yep I know.. | 00:57 |
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| jacekowski | let me just check | 00:57 |
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| aveny | k thanks :) | 00:57 |
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| aveny | jacekowski, sorry | 00:59 |
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| aveny | that command worked sorry | 00:59 |
| jacekowski | yeah | 00:59 |
| aveny | the command that gave me the errors was: | 00:59 |
| jacekowski | what? | 00:59 |
| aveny | cp debian/rx51power_defconfig arch/arm/configs/ | 00:59 |
| aveny | make EXTRAVERSION=power46 rx51power_defconfig | 00:59 |
| aveny | make EXTRAVERSION=power46 bzImage | 00:59 |
| aveny | the arch/arm/plat-omap/include/mach/pm.h:111:2: error: #error "Power management for this processor not implemented yet" | 01:00 |
| aveny | the "normal" kernel is ok but compiling the power kernel gives me that error | 01:00 |
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| jacekowski | ahm | 01:02 |
| alterego | Tomorrow I get back into Columbus :) | 01:02 |
| jacekowski | yeah i see the problem | 01:02 |
| aveny | k | 01:02 |
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| jacekowski | complicated to fix | 01:03 |
| aveny | damn it | 01:03 |
| aveny | so is not just me ok | 01:03 |
| jacekowski | just edit that patch | 01:03 |
| aveny | ok | 01:03 |
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| lardman | hmm, does wpa_supplicant log to somewhere? | 01:03 |
| jacekowski | and don't tell anyone | 01:03 |
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| aveny | :D | 01:03 |
| aveny | is it really so complicated to fix the error? | 01:03 |
| jacekowski | no | 01:04 |
| jacekowski | you would have to edit package | 01:04 |
| aveny | k | 01:04 |
| jacekowski | quite simple | 01:04 |
| jacekowski | but i's too complicated for me to explain it at 23:00 | 01:04 |
| aveny | ah ok | 01:04 |
| jacekowski | 23:04 | 01:04 |
| jacekowski | because i'm looking at screen with one eye | 01:04 |
| aveny | but why has been updated a kernel that has compiling problems? | 01:05 |
| jacekowski | because other one is sleeping already | 01:05 |
| aveny | lol why? | 01:05 |
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| aveny | ah k | 01:05 |
| aveny | :D | 01:05 |
| aveny | is not so late :P | 01:05 |
| jacekowski | it is if you consider that i woke up at 04:00 today | 01:05 |
| aveny | jacekowski, ok this makes sense.. | 01:05 |
| aveny | thanks for the explanations | 01:05 |
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| MohammadAG | i should be asleep too | 01:06 |
| aveny | another :D | 01:06 |
| * javispedro would be.. | 01:06 | |
| jacekowski | aveny: but you can read debian/rules | 01:06 |
| MohammadAG | school, need to wake up at 6 and it's 1 | 01:06 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: 6? | 01:06 |
| javispedro | if it not WERE BECAUSE OF FSCKING MS DOWNLOAD SERVER | 01:06 |
| aveny | jacekowski, to do what? | 01:06 |
| MohammadAG | cba to sleep though | 01:06 |
| jacekowski | aveny: to understand how that package is built | 01:07 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, yeah | 01:07 |
| jacekowski | that's bit early to go to school | 01:07 |
| jacekowski | in my school days i never woke up before 9:00 | 01:07 |
| aveny | jacekowski, what package? stupid question I know | 01:07 |
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| aveny | yep it's very early 6.00 | 01:07 |
| jacekowski | but that may be a reason why i barely passed | 01:07 |
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| aveny | :D | 01:07 |
| merlin1991 | jacekowski, :D | 01:07 |
| MohammadAG | lol jacekowski | 01:08 |
| MohammadAG | well, morning routine | 01:08 |
| MohammadAG | syncing with gitorious /me stares at merlin1991 | 01:08 |
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| jacekowski | and it wasn't the thing that i didn't like to go to school | 01:09 |
| jacekowski | i hated doing homework | 01:09 |
| merlin1991 | *thumbs up* MohammadAG | 01:09 |
| jacekowski | and going to school without homework always meant bad things | 01:09 |
| jacekowski | so i just decided to not go | 01:09 |
| MohammadAG | i have two tests tomorrow | 01:09 |
| MohammadAG | didn't study neither | 01:09 |
| jacekowski | i don't have problems with tests | 01:10 |
| MohammadAG | why? cause they're religion and arabic, two subjects I don't give a crap about | 01:10 |
| jacekowski | it's just spending time at home doing school stuff | 01:10 |
| jacekowski | when i could be doing fuck all | 01:10 |
| jacekowski | esspecialy that i knew this stuff already | 01:10 |
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| MohammadAG | I just find Qt a bit more interesting | 01:11 |
| jacekowski | and writing down 20th page of integrals was boring | 01:11 |
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| jacekowski | but at the point where i can tell result of an integral by just looking at it it's pointless for me to do any more of them | 01:12 |
| jacekowski | if you have to write it all down propely how you got to the result | 01:12 |
| jacekowski | and highest grades on test wouldn't compensate for lowest grades on anything else | 01:13 |
| jacekowski | everything else* | 01:13 |
| jacekowski | so i was just barely passing | 01:13 |
| jacekowski | my low attendance wasn't helping a lot as well | 01:13 |
| MohammadAG | sometimes when I'm bored with integrals I wrote the answer and worked from bottom to top | 01:13 |
| MohammadAG | s/'m/was | 01:14 |
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| BCMM_ | MohammadAG: i thought you did teh Noor package? | 01:15 |
| BCMM_ | (that's arabic, religion, and not Qt) | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | I did | 01:15 |
| jacekowski | noor? | 01:16 |
| MohammadAG | Quran app, needed it for a religion test :P | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | hmmm | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | Noor (play), the play by Akbar Ahmed | 01:17 |
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| jacekowski | Queen Noor of Jordan | 01:17 |
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| jacekowski | or city in iran | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 01:17 |
| lofty306 | if he was in iran he prob wouldnt be here | 01:18 |
| Per_n900 | Where is MohammadAG from? Israel? | 01:19 |
| javispedro | "We’ve also long been impressed with the creativity, passion and size of the Nokia developer community, and we will do all we can to bring that energy to Windows Phone" | 01:19 |
| MohammadAG | yea | 01:20 |
| BCMM_ | javispedro: insult to injury and all that... | 01:20 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, $100kk won't get me on WP7 | 01:20 |
| MohammadAG | double ks was not a mistake | 01:20 |
| javispedro | that was basically the welcome message =) | 01:20 |
| BCMM_ | that's an amazingly stupid thing to say... | 01:20 |
| lardman | MohammadAG: well for $101kk I'd probably consider it | 01:20 |
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| _trine | MohammadAG, are you retiring at an early age then | 01:20 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 01:20 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o GAN900 | 01:21 | |
| MohammadAG | lardman, nah | 01:21 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o Jaffa | 01:21 | |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: correct would be to use M | 01:21 |
| lardman | won't get out of bed for.... | 01:21 |
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| lardman | les than $102kk | 01:21 |
| lardman | +s | 01:21 |
| jacekowski | use correct suffixes | 01:21 |
| jacekowski | M | 01:21 |
| MohammadAG | 100kkk, maybe | 01:21 |
| jacekowski | not double k | 01:21 |
| jacekowski | G not tripple k | 01:21 |
| javispedro | ooh, windows phone emlator, let's try this thing | 01:22 |
| lardman | k^2 ? | 01:22 |
| MohammadAG | kkk sounds cooler | 01:22 |
| jacekowski | have you heard about klu klux klan | 01:22 |
| lofty306 | *Crash* | 01:22 |
| jacekowski | ku kux klan* | 01:22 |
| jacekowski | klux* | 01:22 |
| _trine | obviously not :) | 01:22 |
| _trine | MohammadAG, they would burn you on the cross | 01:23 |
| lardman | I thought it was Klu? | 01:23 |
| javispedro | well wp7 looks like a black and white iphone. | 01:23 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, it even emulates BSODs! | 01:23 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: hold on, why do you study religion? | 01:23 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, ask my school | 01:23 |
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| kerio | why do you go to a school where you study religion? | 01:24 |
| _trine | indoctrination | 01:24 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, ask my government | 01:24 |
| _trine | is the simple answer | 01:24 |
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| MohammadAG | nah, all school do it | 01:24 |
| MohammadAG | This school is run by christians too | 01:25 |
| MohammadAG | and I take islamic religion | 01:25 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: aren't you in nyc? | 01:25 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 01:25 |
| MohammadAG | I wish | 01:25 |
| kerio | then your hostname is lying | 01:25 |
| kerio | or you're using a bouncer | 01:26 |
| derf | Religion is a significant factor in human relations and has been for centuries. Why _wouldn't_ you study it? | 01:26 |
| kerio | a bouncer on verizon fios :Q___ | 01:26 |
| Per_n900 | Studying religion is actually pretty good, it enables one to understand where things went horribly wrong in the world. | 01:26 |
| _trine | because its become politicised | 01:26 |
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| kerio | studying *religions* would be | 01:26 |
| jacekowski | single religion by a priest or whatever is pointless | 01:27 |
| jacekowski | because it's biased | 01:27 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, what hostmask :P | 01:27 |
| kerio | studying a single religion is stupid | 01:27 |
| jacekowski | that there is only one true god and there is a salvation | 01:27 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: oh, it looked like pool-108-14-87-241.nycmny.fios.verizon.net before | 01:27 |
| kerio | maybe i'm wrong | 01:27 |
| _trine | actually we are all a hologram :) | 01:27 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, I wasn't id'd, thanks for pasting the IP lol | 01:28 |
| kerio | yw | 01:28 |
| jacekowski | 00:26 -!- MohammadAG [~MohammadA@pool-108-14-87-241.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] | 01:28 |
| Per_n900 | Religion as a phenomenon is what I meant. | 01:28 |
| * javispedro kinda likes the wp7 browser | 01:28 | |
| kerio | Per_n900: isn't mass hysteria best studied in med school? | 01:28 |
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| * MohammadAG performs an exorcism on javispedro | 01:28 | |
| jacekowski | that's a good question | 01:29 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, what do you like again? | 01:29 |
| _trine | maybe we could convert this channel now its obsolete to religious chat #maegod | 01:29 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: is there a thing like a devil or something in islam? | 01:29 |
| javispedro | it seems to be doing some kind of font resizing | 01:29 |
| MohammadAG | yeah | 01:29 |
| Per_n900 | kerio, maybe. | 01:29 |
| * SpeedEvil learned the answer to that on Radio 4. | 01:29 | |
| * MohammadAG murders javispedro - we lost this one :( | 01:29 | |
| SpeedEvil | It's George Bush. | 01:30 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: hey font resizing is cool | 01:30 |
| kerio | it's what my ipod touch does | 01:30 |
| kerio | screwing up with the layout of most websites | 01:30 |
| jacekowski | anyways | 01:30 |
| jacekowski | good night | 01:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Night! | 01:30 |
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| javispedro | unfortunately, you cannot disable this font resizing at all. | 01:31 |
| _trine | this channel requires a good strong dose of prozac after the bad news | 01:31 |
| javispedro | even though it has a quite large options page including user agent | 01:31 |
| kwtm | MohammadAG: On the subject of Nokia's betrayal, we are grateful to people like you for the community updates to Maemo. Thx. | 01:31 |
| kerio | i <3 microB ^_^ | 01:31 |
| lofty306 | bad news link? | 01:31 |
| BCMM_ | what kwtm said! | 01:31 |
| rzr | cheap n900 : http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B002ZB8L4O/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d2_i2?pf_rd_m=A1X6FK5RDHNB96&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1BNDQG5TCVRFBSAD6XJ6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463375513&pf_rd_i=405320 | 01:32 |
| javispedro | tbh I miss a "distort layout resize fonts" tool on MicroB (and yes I know about Ctrl+Shift+I) | 01:32 |
| pupnik_ | isn't maemo just really freakin good already? | 01:32 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: so are you an atheist or you just don't care about the one true deity that created this universe just for you? | 01:32 |
| * javispedro types slashdot.org and wp7 suggests slashdot.org.org . I wonder if its some kind of inside joke. | 01:33 | |
| lardman | would that not be agnostic? | 01:33 |
| pupnik_ | the interesting question is "why did android become popular and not maemo" | 01:33 |
| pupnik_ | i'd like to see someone explain the factors that led to this | 01:33 |
| lardman | pupnik: because the email client worked? | 01:33 |
| kerio | lardman: gnosticism != theism | 01:33 |
| BCMM_ | lardman: an agnostic doesn't know if there is a god or not - thinking there is one but not caring is different | 01:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Android had a large number of devices by the time that maemo 5 hit | 01:33 |
| _trine | is android more open source | 01:33 |
| javispedro | ok, slashdot is completely unreadable on this thing. microb wins. | 01:33 |
| kerio | _trine: a lot less | 01:33 |
| pupnik_ | SpeedEvil: i think that's a big part of it | 01:33 |
| kerio | javispedro: yay | 01:33 |
| pupnik_ | but how did android get so much mindshare? | 01:34 |
| MohammadAG | kwtm, yw :) | 01:34 |
| BCMM_ | pupnik_: Google. | 01:34 |
| pupnik_ | analysis of chaotic / feedback cycles isn't easy | 01:34 |
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| _trine | I bought 2 N900's and now I am really disappointed | 01:34 |
| BCMM_ | pupnik_: Google has money, and people like them | 01:34 |
| Per_n900 | pupnik_: google pays manufacturers to use it, or so I have heard atleast. That could be one reason. | 01:34 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, no, I just got bored of the subject at school | 01:34 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, same freaking stuff, for 12 years | 01:34 |
| kerio | lardman: gnosticism = knowing about the existance or non-existance of a deity | 01:34 |
| lardman | BCMM: but atheism is believing there is no God I thought | 01:34 |
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| BCMM_ | lardman: yes. | 01:34 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: i gave you a question with two choices and you answered "no" | 01:35 |
| lardman | so the question above can't really use or as a conjunction | 01:35 |
| kerio | :| | 01:35 |
| pupnik_ | BCMM_: nokia has / had a lot of money too | 01:35 |
| javispedro | "Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Express for Windows Phone For Evaluation Purposes Only" -- on the title bar. | 01:35 |
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| javispedro | "there, free development tools!". | 01:35 |
| javispedro | thank you Nokia! | 01:35 |
| pupnik_ | BCMM_: part of the problem is the world's focus on the USA.. | 01:35 |
| _trine | you dont have to worry about religion theres an APP now to receive forgiveness for your sins | 01:35 |
| BCMM_ | lardman: theism: believing in a god. atheism: not believing in a god. agnosticism: undecided between the other two :) | 01:35 |
| rzr | javispedro: run it through wine and tell us | 01:35 |
| _trine | :))) | 01:35 |
| lardman | anyway, brain is frazzled after staring at Tab screen for too long | 01:35 |
| kerio | BCMM_: nope | 01:36 |
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| kerio | gnosticism != theism | 01:36 |
| BCMM_ | kerio: the :) was supposed to indicate knowing i'm wrong | 01:36 |
| kwtm | pupnik_: Why did android become popular? Marketing machine that is Google! | 01:36 |
| kerio | one is about knowledge and the other is about belief | 01:36 |
| kerio | BCMM_: you needed more )s | 01:36 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, I'm hardcore | 01:36 |
| lofty306 | pupnik_, advertising | 01:36 |
| rzr | BCMM: what is the term for those who dont give a f about it | 01:36 |
| kwtm | pupnik_: Do you see Nokia pimping Maemo anywhere? <sigh> Except maybe two Youtube videos... | 01:36 |
| lardman | night all | 01:36 |
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| pupnik_ | kwtm: i agree there was a colossal marketing failure and lack of belief in linux | 01:37 |
| BCMM_ | yeah, maemo made very little noise, even without open-source focused media | 01:37 |
| kerio | lardman: i meant "are you disinterested in the study of religion because you don't believe in it or just out of boredom for the subject?" | 01:37 |
| _trine | I am changing what I am interested in,, now I am looking into number crunching with a video card and pyrit | 01:37 |
| kwtm | _trine: the N900's are still valuable, partly because they can withstand obsolescence ... It will still be running Linux, python/bash scripts, etc. | 01:37 |
| BCMM_ | ^within, rather | 01:37 |
| kerio | kwtm: if you install bash :| | 01:37 |
| kwtm | kerio: well, now's the time to install everything before those Maemo repositories disappear! | 01:38 |
| _trine | kwtm, yeah it might make a good central heating controller | 01:38 |
| kerio | kwtm: nah, MohammadAG's got our back apparently | 01:38 |
| rzr | kwtm: as long as u have spare batteries too | 01:38 |
| kerio | _trine: nah, that'll be a sheevaplug | 01:38 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, technically, my repo lives on maemo.org | 01:38 |
| kwtm | kerio: You never know. No disrespect for MohammedAG, of course, but sometimes higher-ups make decisions suddenly and unexpectedly. | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski has a mirror though | 01:39 |
| lofty306 | they killing it? | 01:39 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: YOU GOT OUR BACK LALALALALA | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | they won't kill it | 01:39 |
| kwtm | rzr: True; now might be the time to eBay a spare or two. I did get a Universal Battery Charger just because I'm so paranoid. | 01:39 |
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| lofty306 | just wont dev it anymoore? | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | if they kill it, they'll lose Elop | 01:39 |
| merlin1991 | if they kill the repo, I'll finally have a use for my debian server :D | 01:39 |
| * MohammadAG laughs diabolically | 01:39 | |
| rzr | kwtm: do u still think that n900 will remain the only device for uning gnu tools , ssh etc for upcoming years ? | 01:39 |
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| kerio | i never uned ssh | 01:40 |
| kwtm | pupnik_: Not sure if world focus on USA is the problem. I take it you're referring to how, in the USA, Android and iPhones are big and Nokia is tiny. THere was an article on that ... mentioned on slashdot. Searching now. | 01:40 |
| MohammadAG | anwyay, think I have to sleep now | 01:41 |
| MohammadAG | night | 01:41 |
| _trine | gnight | 01:41 |
| MohammadAG | will be back in 4 hours :/ | 01:41 |
| kwtm | rzr: I fear that there will be that strong possibility. Samsung is rumoured to bring out a Linux phone, but then Nokia was also rumoured to bring out this powerful N9 successor to the N900, and look what happened. | 01:41 |
| rzr | kwtm: i am wondering how much does n900 should worth now and if it a good invesment for GNU/linux geeks | 01:41 |
| derf | I une ssh all the time. You're missing out. | 01:41 |
| BCMM_ | ssh is like magic | 01:41 |
| rzr | kwtm: yes SLP i know ,but it lacks an open community | 01:41 |
| kwtm | derf: Don't we all use ssh? Who doesn't here? Who are you talking to | 01:41 |
| derf | kerio. | 01:42 |
| rzr | kwtm: so i fear limo is not hackers users | 01:42 |
| kwtm | rzr: Yeah, but then Meego-on-N900 also lacks a big community, which is why I'm glad Maemo's around (and has the N770/N800 community to draw on) | 01:42 |
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| MohammadAG | i'm not leaving for some time | 01:42 |
| _trine | anyway I've gone back to my trustly 6310i | 01:42 |
| BCMM_ | i can't remember the last time i used mass-storage mode, because sftp://user@n900/ is just so easy | 01:42 |
| rzr | i am happy that maemo wasnt closed when meego was announced | 01:43 |
| BCMM_ | (the n900 has a static wlan IP and an entry in /etc/hosts) | 01:43 |
| kwtm | kerio: Seriously? No ssh? You gotta try it sometime! Tunnel X over ssh ... | 01:43 |
| rzr | kwtm: about about getting n900 today is it a mistake ? | 01:43 |
| pupnik_ | kwtm: they're buying ipads with chinese money | 01:43 |
| kwtm | rzr: I would get it at a discount. I myself find it useful for this purpose: | 01:43 |
| _trine | it certainly would be a big mistake | 01:43 |
| rzr | _trine: point out the alternatives ? | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: jebba had a mirror :-P | 01:44 |
| rzr | _trine: i have a freerunner already | 01:44 |
| kerio | kwtm: 'twas a joke based on your misspelling | 01:44 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, freeee.org, but it's dead :( | 01:44 |
| pupnik_ | americants are buying nokia stock with fake money | 01:44 |
| kwtm | rzr: Mainly for editing files: vim; also viewing PDF's. I guess most people use the web, too, although I don't that much. So these are the main reason, "raisons d'etre". And then there | 01:44 |
| MohammadAG | or was it freeeee? | 01:44 |
| pupnik_ | and destroying the company | 01:44 |
| derf | Technically rzr's misspelling. | 01:44 |
| _trine | rzr, its not a question of is there an alternative because the answer sometimes is there is none | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah it's moego.org | 01:44 |
| MohammadAG | my nickname's moe :p | 01:45 |
| kwtm | kerio: Oh, you mean "uned" instead of "used". That was rzr's misspelling, not mine. | 01:45 |
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| kerio | er, yeah | 01:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well and his full name was Jeff Moe afaik | 01:46 |
| kwtm | rzr: And then there's the phone and internet capability, which are mainly to support the main activities (e.g now you can transfer files to your home server) etc. | 01:46 |
| rzr | did i ? | 01:46 |
| rzr | actually i have a n810 and a freerunner i never use | 01:46 |
| kwtm | rzr: You said something about "uning" ssh, so kerio said he's never "uned" ssh before. | 01:46 |
| _trine | my 6310i is a great phone 2 weeks between each battery charge | 01:46 |
| kerio | Jeff "Go" Moe | 01:46 |
| kwtm | rzr: In that case, you may not have as great an additional benefit getting N900. Seriously, the phone interface is clumsy and sucks. | 01:46 |
| rzr | uning gnu tools | 01:46 |
| rzr | true | 01:46 |
| MohammadAG | anyway, night | 01:47 |
| _trine | MohammadAG, go to bed | 01:47 |
| kwtm | rzr: Basically, I hate my N900 because it sucks, but because there's nothing else like it, I have no choice and I have to use it. | 01:47 |
| kwtm | rzr: I hear the N810 has a much better keyboard (4 rows ... drool...) | 01:47 |
| pupnik_ | kwtm: it's not better, the n810 pressure point is worse | 01:47 |
| rzr | n810 size is good | 01:47 |
| kerio | the n900 sucks, but everything else sucks much much more | 01:47 |
| kwtm | pupnik_: Oh, really? Okay. | 01:48 |
| rzr | no need to be smaller | 01:48 |
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| joc | Deciding on a new phone and thinking about an older n900?? Are there other phones that will supoort maemo at this time or on the horizon? | 01:48 |
| pupnik_ | a 4-row n900 would be better | 01:48 |
| kwtm | kerio: Yeah, you could say that. It's just that, with a little effort, they could have made things SO much better! | 01:48 |
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| _trine | you can turn an N900 into a torch so you can put the key in your door,, what do you want | 01:48 |
| _trine | :P | 01:48 |
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| rzr | browsing the web on n810 is a tricky mission | 01:48 |
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| kwtm | joc: Well, I think the N900 will take a long time to become obsolete because it's so powerful. | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik_: that'S clearly a question of personal preference | 01:48 |
| pupnik_ | n900 had the best web browsing on the planet when it was released | 01:49 |
| kwtm | kerio: I dial the phone with vim now because I can't phoning with the actual built-in "Phone" app. | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | (pressure point) | 01:49 |
| pupnik_ | DocScrutinizer: what would be a drawback to a 4-row kbd | 01:49 |
| pupnik_ | DocScrutinizer: oh ok | 01:49 |
| rzr | kwtm: well if only we can flash customrom w/ all drivers | 01:49 |
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| derf | DocScrutinizer: No. The N810's keyboard is objectively terrible in this regard. | 01:49 |
| pupnik_ | i agree with derf | 01:49 |
| joc | I would have to agree after my research today ;). Very cool. I did notice something about bluetooth keyboard support having issue. Is this the case? | 01:49 |
| pupnik_ | it's like poking a puppy in the eye | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | derf: no, I still like my N810 as much as my N900 | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | wrt kbd | 01:50 |
| pupnik_ | DocScrutinizer: you're wrong - the pressure feedback is terrible | 01:50 |
| kwtm | I'm just waiting for my slide-out keyboard to break mechanically from all the sliding in and out. The onscreen keyboard is impractical. | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what? | 01:50 |
| derf | The N900 was not a _big_ improvement. But it was an improvement. | 01:50 |
| rzr | well i get used to | 01:50 |
| rzr | it's still better than any on screen kb | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | if it's ok for me, what can you possibly do about it? | 01:50 |
| pupnik_ | it's not ok for me | 01:50 |
| pupnik_ | i would have RETURNED the device | 01:50 |
| kwtm | derf: For me, the improvement in the N900 is that I can use a single SIM card to make phone calls and to get on the Internet. | 01:51 |
| rzr | remove your gloves | 01:51 |
| derf | I was just talking about the keyboard. | 01:51 |
| kwtm | I think the resistive touchscreen is *too* sensitive on my N900 and needs a software modification to make it more usable. | 01:51 |
| derf | The N900 is a huge improvement in many other regards. | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's a mega pita on N810 is the key MAPPING | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp of "blue" level | 01:51 |
| rzr | DocScrutinizer: easy to fix | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, but hard to learn by heart :-P | 01:52 |
| kwtm | In particular, when you touch the high-rez screen with a finger that touches more than one pixel at a time, the N900 thinks you're tracing a tiny wiggly line. | 01:52 |
| rzr | i did | 01:52 |
| lcuk | kwtm, that is normal and has occured from dawn of time | 01:52 |
| kwtm | They should make it so that when that tiny line (the N900 thinks) I am tracing is entirely contained within the area of a button, it should be regarded as a button press, not a drag. | 01:52 |
| lcuk | centre of pressure point and it moves around | 01:53 |
| joc | What are the odds of the e7's drivers being realeased and maemo working there or on the n8 - not that symbian is gone with the nokia/m$ merger ? | 01:53 |
| kwtm | lcuk: It certainly has occurred from the dawn of time. I would say it has room for improvement. | 01:53 |
| joc | now/not | 01:53 |
| rzr | so getting a n900 to replace a n800 and use it as main phone does not worth it ? | 01:53 |
| _trine | how many people on this channel are suffering for paranoid depression since the announcement ? | 01:53 |
| lcuk | rzr, n900 is lightyears ahead of n800 | 01:53 |
| * rzr _o/ | 01:53 | |
| * joc is | 01:53 | |
| kwtm | lcuk: Okay, look here, I'm not going to debate what's "right" or what's "abnormal", ok? I'm just saying that under certain circumstances it would be easier to know that the user does not intend to trace, and put in a software patch for it. | 01:54 |
| rzr | lcuk: well it looks that both as stuck in the past | 01:54 |
| joc | Does anyone want to sell me a n900? :) | 01:54 |
| lcuk | rzr, not really I also adore my 10" inch slate | 01:54 |
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| rzr | _trine: actually last time i fell similar is when amiga died | 01:54 |
| lcuk | I have said for years I wanted one ;) | 01:54 |
| kwtm | rzr: Depends what you wanht of the phone. My N900 has suffered poor response time (e.g. 2-3 seconds to respond to button presses, sometimes causing me to miss calls). | 01:54 |
| _trine | rzr, \\o/ | 01:55 |
| rzr | but there is natami now | 01:55 |
| rzr | so expect some nit running on fpga in 10 years | 01:55 |
| rzr | actually i did not get a n900 before because i wanted to get that n9 or any meego phone | 01:56 |
| rzr | now i regreat i should have jump in the maemo5 train and save it from elopcalypse | 01:57 |
| kwtm | rzr: If you're holding out for a later phone, might want to get a N900 while there is still a manufacturer's warranty. | 01:57 |
| lcuk | kwtm, even with a wiggle in press (very wiggle infact, moving finger aorund once button is pressed before release) once I release finger it works | 01:57 |
| lcuk | which buttons don't operate like that for you? | 01:57 |
| joc | I'm assuming it could be possible for maemo and the e7 to be a couple if the drivers were realeased, by say, a disgruntled employee? | 01:57 |
| javispedro | ha ha, ha. | 01:58 |
| kwtm | lcuk: None of the buttons work like that for me. On investigation (by tapping on PenSketch, for example), I see that I'm tracing curlicues, which I presume is the cause. Otherwise, the buttons just simply don't respond half the time. | 01:58 |
| kwtm | By the way, lcuk, were you the one who wrote the backup system for the N900? I seem to recall something about that. You know, the app for backing up contacts and screen config and all that. | 01:59 |
| lcuk | I just opened calculator | 01:59 |
| lcuk | pressed "1" | 01:59 |
| lcuk | pressed (but not released) +, rolled finger all the way to bottom of "+" then released | 01:59 |
| lcuk | then pressed 2 | 01:59 |
| lcuk | it gave nice answer of 3 | 02:00 |
| kwtm | lcuk: I'm very happy that your N900 works for you. Unfortunately, unless you are willing to swap devices with me, mine doesn't work that way in: phone, contacts, and most of the other apps that I use. | 02:00 |
| kwtm | lcuk: Okay, I just opened phone. | 02:00 |
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| joc | Are there phones on the horizon that maemo will be intended for or do I need to buy a beagleboad? :) | 02:00 |
| lcuk | kwtm, I am merely trying to see your problem since it is curious yours does that | 02:01 |
| kwtm | I just tapped 123456789. The screen says: 234679 | 02:01 |
| timeless | joc: that isn't really how things work | 02:01 |
| timeless | i have no idea what components are in the e7 | 02:01 |
| timeless | but i'd imagine you're talking about a half dozen to a dozen that'd need help | 02:01 |
| kwtm | I'm sure it's very curious to you, lcuk. You also didn't believe me when I said my phone kept locking up during the bootup process, and I must have installed something from extras-devel or something... | 02:02 |
| kwtm | So it might just be that my model is somehow different from yours. | 02:02 |
| kwtm | I don't know. But I have come to accept that taps on fingers don't work half the time.. I presume it's the "wiggle" thing, but maybe it's just --well, I dunno, the way the resistive screen is. | 02:02 |
| kwtm | I had the same problem on my Treo 650, my TRGpro, HandEra, and PalmIII, so I've learned to live with it. | 02:03 |
| joc | timeless: Time will tell. I find it so interesting that Nokia releases three symbian phones and then announces that merger. Seems like a huge pr faux pas.? | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Resistive screen should always work, unless you tap very, very lightly - under maybe 10g | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I measured it once, but I forgot | 02:03 |
| timeless | joc: you've seen nokia do good pr? | 02:03 |
| timeless | joc: people are paid to do tasks | 02:04 |
| kwtm | SpeedEvil: It's not that it doesn't work; it's that (at least in the Palm models) it develops these spurious strokes, but it takes about 9 months to 1 year to develop it. | 02:04 |
| timeless | and their bonus structure is based on accomplishing the tasks they agreed to accomplish roughly when they indicated they would do so | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | kwtm: Do you play lots of games? | 02:04 |
| kwtm | SpeedEvil: So, after a while, when you just press on a point on the screen, the screen thinks you actuall made a vertical stroke that ends at your point. | 02:04 |
| timeless | if you were ordered on jan 1 to do something by mar 1 | 02:04 |
| timeless | and you had it ready on feb 1 | 02:04 |
| timeless | would you just sort of sit on it forever? | 02:05 |
| kwtm | SpeedEvil: Almost never. All my games are sudoku like. The one action game I played, for maybe 10 times before realizing I suck at action games, used the keyboard for controls. | 02:05 |
| timeless | if someone had a secret that they might announce on valentines day, which might cause your bonus structure to go away | 02:05 |
| timeless | would you still sit on it, just on the off chance that it could make you get a worse bonus? | 02:05 |
| joc | Timeless: Well, I suppose it is a good way to downsize. | 02:05 |
| timeless | a product is the product of many many many commitments | 02:05 |
| timeless | a phone may be promised to operators | 02:06 |
| timeless | and they may have purchase orders for them | 02:06 |
| timeless | they may have actually been *produced* | 02:06 |
| timeless | in which case you've paid for the parts, assembly, packaging, and storage | 02:06 |
| timeless | the only way you can get anything back is by selling them | 02:06 |
| timeless | but in this case, the announcements / products came before a decision to change direction | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Though they may not be in a state where their sale will reflect positively on your company. | 02:07 |
| timeless | so it isn't like anyone actually had any reason not to do what they were paid to do | 02:07 |
| timeless | SpeedEvil: nothing has been of late :) | 02:07 |
| kwtm | Btw, I still have this VERY curious problem where, most of the time I have no trouble mapping keys, but two keys are mapped to ]{ --if I press Shift-Fn J or Shift-Fn K, then two characters are typed. No idea why. The key map file looks normal to me (Shift-Fn J is ] and Shift-Fn K is { ) | 02:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | timeless: Well - true. :) | 02:08 |
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| joc | Are there phones on the horizon for maemo or are we waiting? Thanks. | 02:09 |
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| timeless | the maemo organization ceased to exist a while ago | 02:09 |
| timeless | so no, you aren't waiting for any maemo branded products | 02:09 |
| joc | and meego? | 02:09 |
| timeless | that was the replacement org name | 02:09 |
| timeless | the last public memo i read in the press seemed to indicate that there would be one "meego related product" coming from "nokia" "this year" | 02:10 |
| timeless | i'm not sure if i got the terminology on that right, so please don't quote mme | 02:10 |
| timeless | s/mme/me/ | 02:10 |
| joc | So, the organziation and the linux foundation put an end to it? It's gone? What are you guys doing here? :) | 02:10 |
| infobot | timeless meant: i'm not sure if i got the terminology on that right, so please don't quote me | 02:10 |
| timeless | do feel free to google for it or check the press releases | 02:10 |
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| _trine | is there going to be any counselling on this channel on how to deal with suicides | 02:10 |
| _trine | :P | 02:11 |
| timeless | LF has nothing to do w/ Maemo | 02:11 |
| GAN900 | Watch, Nokia is going to start "fixing" warrantied N900s by replacing them with WP7 phones. | 02:11 |
| timeless | and as for meego, the entity within nokia is managed by nokia, not by LF | 02:11 |
| _trine | to look on the brighter side we can now all legitimately buy iphones | 02:11 |
| joc | timeless; apparently meego is a part of the linux foundation, their logo is at the bottom of the meego page ? | 02:12 |
| timeless | GAN900: i still remember an AST386 being replaced by an AST486 when some hardware component failed under warranty | 02:12 |
| * timeless was quite happy w/ that | 02:12 | |
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| timeless | my complaint at the time was that we didn't get a free CRT upgrade :) | 02:12 |
| timeless | silly non integrated / interchangable detachable components | 02:12 |
| joc | So, no one is going to pick up the pieces and continue an opensource mobile OS? | 02:13 |
| timeless | joc: err | 02:13 |
| timeless | nokia contributed some resources to a MeeGo project | 02:13 |
| timeless | most of which is being managed by Intel | 02:13 |
| timeless | with contributions from various other vendors | 02:13 |
| timeless | and there's also LiMo (?) | 02:13 |
| timeless | so there are a couple of linux phone platforms available | 02:14 |
| timeless | and presumably hardware vendors which will use them | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Isn't LiMo mostly focussed on the fundamental non-UI side? | 02:14 |
| timeless | Aava (?) | 02:14 |
| timeless | SpeedEvil: rasterman was here earlier noting his employer was working on a ui for something | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah. | 02:15 |
| kwtm | timeless: And there was also OpenMoko etc., but without (strong, hopefully) support from a big company like Google/Nokia/IBM/Sun, just the fact that it's Linux by itself doesn't make it sustainable. | 02:15 |
| timeless | sun doesn't exist | 02:15 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: It's probably a working tricorder. He always seems to have the best hardware. | 02:15 |
| timeless | heh | 02:15 |
| nox- | haha | 02:15 |
| timeless | kwtm: but yeah, openmoko never went anywhere useful | 02:15 |
| timeless | the n900 volume was actually very impressive for no advertising | 02:16 |
| Mousey | openmoko senior devs left the project to work on webos | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: I don't suppose you can reveal any hints as to that volume? | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Mousey: Before that, the managment was comprehensively screwing up. | 02:16 |
| timeless | i can't find any useful google hits, no :( | 02:16 |
| * Mousey thinks . o ( darnit! ) | 02:17 | |
| timeless | it's worth remembering that there was more demand than supply initially | 02:17 |
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| krayon | I was running on my Freerunner for a while before I got my N900. It ... works but it's the last 10% that's missing last I tried. Nokia got a lot closer to "DONE" IMHO. | 02:18 |
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| joc | Well, I suppose this is evidece that the n900 will live on forever, so I'll buy one. I'm also not going to give up hope that some form of hardware will run the maemo source. | 02:18 |
| timeless | my guess is that you could get vaguely usable numbers from maemo.org update pings | 02:18 |
| Mousey | i miss my n810 | 02:18 |
| timeless | if you tried to datamine | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Openmoko hardware still has active development on. | 02:18 |
| Mousey | why on gods green earth did it stop being made! =( | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: I tried to do that. | 02:18 |
| timeless | SpeedEvil: how;d it go? | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: It seemed to indicate fairly low numbers IIRC - ~50K for fmms, for example. | 02:19 |
| kwtm | timeless: Yeah, I heard they didn't know how to manage the open community, thought they could just publish specs and sit back and let the software pour in... | 02:19 |
| * SpeedEvil checks logs. | 02:19 | |
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| joc | speedevil: thanks | 02:19 |
| timeless | SpeedEvil: sorry, 50k for fmms? an item which the majority of users wouldn't want/need/seek? | 02:20 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: yes | 02:20 |
| _trine | heres what an N900 is worth now :- http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N900-Mobile-Phone-/260736457849?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item3cb51a9c79 | 02:20 |
| SpeedEvil | _trine: You're an ass-hat | 02:21 |
| _trine | now now | 02:21 |
| timeless | fwiw, http://www.allaboutmeego.com/news/item/11601_N900_shipment_numbers-100000_i.php seems like the most positive item i've found | 02:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | _trine: Go and look at completed sales. >220 quid for ones in good condition. | 02:21 |
| * jonwil has posted a list of the 7 or so "lets open this" requests that still make sense http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relavent | 02:22 | |
| joc | From my research ~290 USD used ~$350 new from amazon. | 02:22 |
| _trine | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N900-Mobile-Phone-/180626242136?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item2a0e29ba58 | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | http://completed.shop.ebay.co.uk/Mobile-Smart-Phones-/171954/i.html?rt=nc&LH_Complete=1&_nkw=n900&_catref=1&_dmpt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m283&_rdc=1 | 02:22 |
| jonwil | All the other "open this" requests were solved somehow, had no concrete use case or were blocked for legitimate reasons (e.g. BME) | 02:22 |
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| _trine | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOKIA-N900-MOBILE-PHONE-EXCELLENT-CONDITION-UNLOCKED-/260736699955?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item3cb51e4e33 | 02:23 |
| _trine | no one wants one any more | 02:24 |
| joc | Is the maemo source code not available? I figure I should find it and sort it away with my symbian source. | 02:24 |
| krayon | _trine: It's not over till the auction ends. You should be checking completed. They are still going for ~$300 US depending on condition etc | 02:25 |
| joc | 80% opensrouce..? I still think somone needs to pick up the pieces and continue with development. | 02:25 |
| SpeedEvil | joc: Please do! | 02:26 |
| SpeedEvil | joc: The closed source bits are unfortunately cleverly designed. | 02:26 |
| _trine | krayon, not so there is one at least that is buy now 180 | 02:26 |
| krayon | _trine: Link, I'll buy it now :D | 02:27 |
| _trine | krayon, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N900-Mobile-Phone-/180626242136?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item2a0e29ba58 | 02:27 |
| joc | SpeedEvil: it appears so, "not funcational without the 20% which is closed", but the people of #maemo are going to let it die? Guys, wtf? At least post it on github for bored developers to tinker with.. eh? | 02:28 |
| joc | It someone can point me in the direction of the source I'll post it right now. | 02:28 |
| krayon | _trine: Um, that's 180 POUNDS, I said $300 US (I'm in AU but most people understand US$ so I used it as the "common" currency) | 02:28 |
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| joc | once it becomes 100% open the sucide rate might go down.. ;-) | 02:29 |
| _trine | krayon, I didnt know I was speaking to an ozy | 02:29 |
| krayon | _trine: :P regardless, I did say "~$300 US" and you said "not so" | 02:30 |
| _trine | krayon, and it isnt | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | joc: No, they're not letting it die. | 02:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | joc: My point is that the closed source bits are _exactly_ the design you would pick if you wanted to answer the question: | 02:31 |
| joc | Looks like this is the most recent http://tinyurl.com/y7y7pd9. Is there anything further along elsewhere? | 02:31 |
| _trine | krayon, 300.00 USD = 185.863 GBP | 02:32 |
| joc | speedevil: Well, good to hear that it's not going to die. | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | joc: The question 'how can we make it so that developers can iwrite programs for it, but that no other mobile maker can make use of it, or easily the programs that are developed' | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | The answer to this is a poorly documented stack of daemons, with multiple interconnections in unclear ways. | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | So you can't simply replace one, you need to replace them all. | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | This - coincidentally... | 02:34 |
| krayon | _trine: That's not much under (FWIW though, that's one of the cheapest I've seen in the last month) | 02:34 |
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| _trine | krayon, nearly's dont count :p | 02:35 |
| _trine | anyway I have 2 N900's so I am hoping it does carry on | 02:36 |
| joc | speedevil: Sounds like something a group of developers need to refactor. | 02:36 |
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| * joc just registered on maemo.gitorious.org | 02:36 | |
| SpeedEvil | joc: Refactoring is _hard_ | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | joc: As you need to rip out essentially undocumented stuff, that talks to other undocumented stuff in undocumented ways. | 02:37 |
| joc | Speedevil: is maemo not the best opensource tablet/phone os currently? | 02:38 |
| jonwil | yeah the connectivity middleware is the biggest problem with maemo | 02:38 |
| _trine | krayon, I found another http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N900-Mobile-Phone-internet-tablet-GPS-/180625292184?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item2a0e1b3b98 | 02:38 |
| SpeedEvil | joc: It's rpactically the only one | 02:38 |
| _trine | is this the start of the rush to sell | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil | _trine: you say that like it's a bad thing. | 02:39 |
| krayon | _trine: I hope so ... I'll be doing what I did with the Treo680 and buying enough to last until something better comes out (if ever) | 02:39 |
| joc | So, if we give up development we all will be using ios, android or windows. I'm in favor of not giving up. There wre checkin's to the repository 7 hour ago. | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil | _trine: There are a _large_ number of young, and poor hackers, who cannot easily buy a new, expensive phone. | 02:39 |
| _trine | SpeedEvil, I am just reporting what I see | 02:40 |
| SpeedEvil | _trine: Development often gets significantly more contributors (though others drop off of course) when prices fall. | 02:40 |
| _trine | SpeedEvil, I hope so | 02:40 |
| * _trine keeps his fingers and legs crossed | 02:41 | |
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| _trine | however I am not optimistic | 02:42 |
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| _trine | since the announcement by Nokia the N900 is now obsolete and thats a fact | 02:44 |
| pupnik_ | it just got more interesting than ever | 02:45 |
| pupnik_ | and more valuable | 02:45 |
| rzr | bah you should be happy , the future of freesoftware is cygwin on wp7 ! | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it's just as much fun as has been last week | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I might get a third one, when they actually get that cheap now | 02:46 |
| Trapp | I just got my first N900 yesterday | 02:47 |
| pupnik_ | congrats Trapp | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | enjoy | 02:47 |
| pupnik_ | which style keyboard? | 02:47 |
| _trine | actually I feel feel quite upset at what has happened and I'm sure that goes for a lot of people here | 02:47 |
| Trapp | thanks, I love it so far | 02:47 |
| rzr | I wish i can one antographied by mr elop | 02:47 |
| rzr | +get | 02:47 |
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| pupnik_ | do any of you knwo WHO in nokia killed maemo? | 02:48 |
| pupnik_ | that wasn't Elop | 02:48 |
| pupnik_ | that was some other buttmunchers | 02:48 |
| joc | This like this is the offical repo: http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch. Cheers! | 02:48 |
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| Sc0rpius | who | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Whoever agreed the merger with moblin. | 02:48 |
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| * DocScrutinizer wonders idly what's been wrong now with mxr.maemo.org, for joc | 03:03 | |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: Perhaps Elop pulled the plug? :( | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 03:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/ doesn't look like pulled plug | 03:04 |
| pupnik_ | hw did maemo get dumped | 03:04 |
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| chx | DocScrutinizer: http://mxr.maemo.org/harmattan/source/ this is the problem :p | 03:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh | 03:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | For all I know so far, I really, honestly hope harmattan never gets published. Neither source nor any PR1.4 meego flavoured or whatever | 03:08 |
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| BCMM_ | DocScrutinizer: why's that? | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | harmattan-HE aiui is targeted to accomplish some sorta "compatibility" to meego, both in GUI and some system parts (Qt et al). So for N900 it's a 0.1 version for a huge part of user experience, and also for developers. The compatibility is towards a deadend meego devices branch, the harmattan pseudo-meego for sure will be full of bugs and no chance to ever get mature like maemo proper is now. Plus I don't like meego UI for all I've seen so | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | far | 03:15 |
| BCMM_ | ah, i see | 03:16 |
| lofty306 | i havent deciided on the meego yet just put it on me netbook | 03:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so in my opinion it's a first class funeral for maemo, all users updating to a 'new' OS in betastage, then Nokia letting down and all the developers won't care about fremantle anymore, will get pissed with harmattan, and with a meego that never comes to a mature state | 03:18 |
| lofty306 | but good point on the dead end bit DocScrutinizer51 | 03:19 |
| lofty306 | *-51 | 03:19 |
| villager | I'd think things like ofono code (or camera/gps/whatever sources) might be nice though, if there was some of that in harmattan | 03:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | only IF they'd work better or at least as good as maemo stuff does now | 03:20 |
| BCMM_ | DocScrutinizer: yeah, wouldn't it provide useful sources for a Free maemo-derivative? people wouldn't have to actually use it | 03:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BCMM_: I don't see that. the closed things will stay closed, the new things will be full of bugs and poorly integrated with the old heritage, and you can't randomly swap subsystems between maemo and harmattan | 03:22 |
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| BCMM_ | DocScrutinizer: so what do you think the outlook is like for an open OS on the n900? | 03:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it will arrive when nobody cares about it anymore | 03:26 |
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| HtheB | Guys | 03:44 |
| HtheB | anyone awake? :) | 03:44 |
| HtheB | :( ok no one | 03:47 |
| HtheB | lol | 03:47 |
| beford | hi | 03:49 |
| * jonwil is here | 03:50 | |
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| jonwil | It should be possible to find out all the things that talk to CSD and its plugins over dbus and from there figure out how hard it is to replace CSD with ofono and which other bits would need replacement. Would also need to trace anything thats using the various libraries like libsms that isnt csd and its plugins. | 03:56 |
| HtheB | beford: | 03:56 |
| HtheB | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=947626#post947626 | 03:56 |
| HtheB | jonwil, you to | 03:56 |
| HtheB | o | 03:56 |
| HtheB | :p | 03:56 |
| HtheB | check out | 03:56 |
| beford | hehe | 03:58 |
| HtheB | xD | 03:58 |
| rm_work | lol got to 300 without missing any and got bored :P | 04:00 |
| rm_work | also my wrist hurts | 04:01 |
| HtheB | xD | 04:02 |
| HtheB | rm_work: it's good for the stress | 04:02 |
| HtheB | to keep destroying those WP7's | 04:02 |
| HtheB | :p | 04:02 |
| rm_work | lol | 04:02 |
| HtheB | I will update the game when I got time to make it less boring though | 04:03 |
| HtheB | like "level up" | 04:03 |
| HtheB | speed up | 04:03 |
| HtheB | music | 04:03 |
| HtheB | etc :P | 04:03 |
| HtheB | oh and there is always a thanks button guys :p | 04:03 |
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| HtheB | I'm off | 04:19 |
| HtheB | nite all :) | 04:19 |
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| BCMM_ | good grief, that's an over-the-top Flashsite... | 04:25 |
| BCMM_ | (i mean, the rest of that site) | 04:25 |
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| pupnik_ | asd | 06:00 |
| psycho_oreos | dsa | 06:00 |
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| pupnik_ | hi psycho_oreos | 06:01 |
| pupnik_ | what's new | 06:01 |
| psycho_oreos | pupnik_, nothing new on me n900 front, you? | 06:01 |
| pupnik_ | tired | 06:02 |
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| pupnik_ | however i have some juice + cola + water and that tastes wonderful | 06:02 |
| psycho_oreos | lol that might keep you buzzing for a bit | 06:02 |
| psycho_oreos | till the sugar wears out :) | 06:02 |
| pupnik_ | mhm | 06:03 |
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| psycho_oreos | I still can't get over the fact they've killed n9 | 06:04 |
| psycho_oreos | maybe I might just buy another n900, so I have two to play with | 06:05 |
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| pupnik | too bad the german ones here don't have 4 arrow keys | 06:07 |
| pupnik | a replacement keymat is only like 20 euro | 06:07 |
| psycho_oreos | is the keymat easy to replace? | 06:08 |
| pupnik | well. i don't know | 06:08 |
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| psycho_oreos | and why not 4 arrows? which key is it missing? lol | 06:08 |
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| pupnik | two of the arrows are on function keys | 06:08 |
| pupnik | because the german alphabet has some additional characters | 06:08 |
| psycho_oreos | I may need to replace mine sometime soon. My backspace key is the worst struck | 06:09 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah omleaut iirc | 06:09 |
| psycho_oreos | omlaut* | 06:09 |
| pupnik | have you worn through yours? | 06:09 |
| pupnik | i have an early version that got worn-through fast | 06:10 |
| pupnik | and the speakers blew out | 06:10 |
| psycho_oreos | for the backspace, yeah its about 1/4 chunk missing | 06:10 |
| psycho_oreos | ouch | 06:10 |
| psycho_oreos | how did the speakers blew out? | 06:10 |
| pupnik | i bypassed the speaker protection | 06:10 |
| pupnik | should have implemented that filter in the mp3 player | 06:11 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh lol | 06:11 |
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| pupnik | i had mp3 playback down to using like 4% cpu or so | 06:11 |
| pupnik | down from 15% | 06:11 |
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| psycho_oreos | lower quality? | 06:12 |
| psycho_oreos | s/quality/bitrate/ | 06:12 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: lower bitrate? | 06:12 |
| pupnik | no | 06:12 |
| psycho_oreos | o.O | 06:13 |
| psycho_oreos | different codecs? heh | 06:13 |
| pupnik | no. bypassing pulseaudio | 06:14 |
| pupnik | and using mplayer | 06:14 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh | 06:14 |
| psycho_oreos | mplayer + alsa I presume? | 06:15 |
| pupnik | yes | 06:16 |
| pupnik | mplayer -quiet (so it doesn't spit out text constantly) | 06:16 |
| pupnik | and mp3 decoding can do multi-band eq for 'free' cpu wise | 06:16 |
| pupnik | so i should have just dropped low frequences | 06:17 |
| pupnik | there are also arm-specific players | 06:18 |
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| pupnik | psycho_oreos: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36555&highlight=pulse+cpu | 06:24 |
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| sevard | Does anyone know if theres a Qvernote for the n810? | 06:29 |
| pupnik | is there one for n900? | 06:35 |
| sevard | qvernote :) | 06:36 |
| pupnik | Buddy: [Consoling Laura about missing husband] Maybe Rob got drunk? | 06:36 |
| pupnik | Laura: Oh you know Rob never gets drunk. | 06:36 |
| pupnik | Buddy: Well maybe tonight he made it? | 06:36 |
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| random-n900 | hey all | 07:09 |
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| pupnik | moo | 07:13 |
| ds3 | baaah | 07:13 |
| pupnik | four legs good! two legs baaaad! | 07:14 |
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| random-n900 | n900 has no legs :o | 07:17 |
| random-n900 | >: | 07:17 |
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| sevard | Does anyone use tear on diablo? | 07:41 |
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| slonopotamus | mwahaha :) | 07:57 |
| slonopotamus | 1. take lenny debhelper-7. 2. drop dependencies on man-db and coreutils (since they're useless) 4. upload to builder 5. ??? 6. profit | 07:58 |
| slonopotamus | i wonder why noone did that yet | 08:02 |
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| pupnik | hey slonopotamus nice to see you again | 08:03 |
| slonopotamus | pupnik: uh? i didn't go away :) | 08:03 |
| pupnik | what's debhelper for? | 08:04 |
| slonopotamus | no idea. some dark debian voodoo | 08:04 |
| pupnik | oh right | 08:05 |
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| pupnik | dh-everything | 08:05 |
| slonopotamus | there are several posts outside like "oh noes, maemo's debhelper is sooo slow, it's 5.x, but we need 7.x to use lenny packages easily" | 08:06 |
| slonopotamus | and actually i'm running it on n900 currently :) | 08:06 |
| slonopotamus | like this: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/re-debhelper_7-001/?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nemein_discussion_posts_page=1 | 08:07 |
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| pupnik | i don't rememebr frustrations with debhelper | 08:09 |
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| slonopotamus | w/e, looks like it just works | 08:10 |
| * slonopotamus thinks about mass-upload of lenny packages to extras-devel and seeing what'll build :) | 08:10 | |
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| ruskie | gah.. for some reason fmms has forced that by default anything trying to connect will try using the MMS connection instead of the internet one.. :( | 09:11 |
| pupnik | the cell phone connection? | 09:12 |
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| ruskie | yeah... I have internet connection and mms... if I open a browser it will try to connecting using MMS | 09:14 |
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| pupnik | http://www.limofoundation.org/en/Press-Releases/limo-foundation-unveils-limo-4.html another linux-on-mobiles to get confused by | 09:18 |
| ruskie | LiMo is nothing new really | 09:19 |
| ruskie | and apparently people seem to be able to hack them rather easily as well | 09:19 |
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| pupnik | what's hacked ruskie ? | 09:22 |
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| ruskie | LiMo based phones | 09:29 |
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| jonwil | wow, I cant believe how much better my n900 + new carrier is. I get service in places I never used to get service :) | 09:36 |
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| ruskie | hehe | 09:40 |
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| lloft306 | ha | 09:44 |
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| jonwil | Does anyone know where the code for that circular progress indicator lives? | 09:46 |
| jonwil | probably one of the Hildon libraries but I dont know where | 09:46 |
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| ZogG | how much scratchbox needs space on hdd? | 09:51 |
| ZogG | cause it takes about 5 gibs and i have only 10 on system one and /opt is not separate =( | 09:51 |
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| ZogG | I think meego should be given to HTC to release several phones with it, than it would make good for meego =) | 09:59 |
| ruskie | 5,6G scratchbox | 10:00 |
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| ZogG | ruskie, damn i need to reinstall funtoo on my laptop than as i can't even reformat hdd =( | 10:02 |
| ZogG | anyway i wanted 64 bit and set 32 by mistake =( | 10:02 |
| * ruskie is trying to reclaim some rootfs space on his n900... | 10:02 | |
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| ruskie | rootfs 228M 217M 6,7M 98% / <-- kinda not really happy with this... | 10:03 |
| ZogG | ruskie started to make simple xmms2 client, for now i managed to make only control buttons as API is simple but Qt is new to me | 10:03 |
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| ruskie | well I'm more than happy with contorl buttons ;) | 10:03 |
| ruskie | atm I simply pop-open a terminal to control it ;) | 10:03 |
| ZogG | ruskie just put 1T SSD inside =) | 10:04 |
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| ruskie | for display I have that widget that can display term output | 10:04 |
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| ZogG | ruskie i can make simple app with only control buttons if you want =) | 10:04 |
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| ruskie | desktop widget would be nicer | 10:04 |
| ZogG | or for instance i can try to make widget with control buttons and take your code for song info =) | 10:05 |
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| ZogG | ruskie, my aim to make it able to connect to local(n900 xmms2) or server (computer over local network and maybe later over bluetooth) to control computer as well =) | 10:06 |
| ruskie | :) | 10:06 |
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| ZogG | ruskie, you would be first tester but it would take some time =) | 10:06 |
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| pupnik | yaay for xmms2 | 10:10 |
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| ZogG | ruskie can you put to git your code for widget? | 10:10 |
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| ruskie | ZogG, I'm using an already existing widget | 10:10 |
| ruskie | cmd line thingy | 10:11 |
| ruskie | don't recall the name | 10:11 |
| ZogG | pupnik, don't say you use xmms2 as well =) | 10:11 |
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| ZogG | ruskie, what app do you use for it on desctop btw? | 10:11 |
| ruskie | nothing | 10:11 |
| ruskie | since there is no client that works :( | 10:11 |
| ZogG | ruskie, ok - than never midn =) | 10:11 |
| ZogG | ruskie, i can share with you my friends simple client | 10:12 |
| ruskie | I just need something that pops up a whats playing thingy... | 10:12 |
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| ZogG | http://gtk-apps.org/content/show.php/Splean?content=116605 | 10:12 |
| ruskie | hell I'd be happy with a client that can trigger an external command on status change | 10:12 |
| ZogG | ruskie, this one my friend wrote after i forced him to switch to xmms2 from mpd =) | 10:13 |
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| ruskie | hehe | 10:13 |
| ruskie | I'll take a look at it | 10:13 |
| ruskie | I miss some of the older clients myself... | 10:13 |
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| ruskie | xmms2_jump and gx2osd | 10:13 |
| ZogG | i have one more that on my computer from other friend | 10:13 |
| ZogG | but he left it and started new one with no medialib =( | 10:14 |
| jonwil | ok, turns out that running hildon-theme-recache-all (that and switching themes and then switching back again) fixed the glitching of my circular progress indicator | 10:14 |
| ZogG | ruskie splean has popup on it's tray icon and controls on tray icon | 10:14 |
| ruskie | frankly I could live without the medialib | 10:14 |
| ruskie | no tray icons | 10:14 |
| ZogG | and it's gtk | 10:14 |
| ruskie | or libnotify based crap ;) | 10:14 |
| ZogG | i'm gtk guy =) | 10:14 |
| ruskie | atleast not on my desktop | 10:14 |
| ruskie | gtk I like ;) | 10:14 |
| ruskie | I'm one of those rare ppl that prefer the gtk UX to others | 10:15 |
| ruskie | rootfs 228M 214M 11M 96% / <-- yay... optified libruby1.8 and got some hdd back... | 10:15 |
| ZogG | ruskie, no it's client, just it has in addition controls over trayicon as well | 10:15 |
| ZogG | ruskie, i can share one without popup and tay icon just client | 10:15 |
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| MohammadAG | morning | 10:19 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG \o/ | 10:20 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, is cssu repo down as well as extras? | 10:20 |
| ZogG | ruskie, http://i.imgur.com/5LjbP.png - this one | 10:20 |
| ruskie | hmm hopefully I'll be able to switch to cssu today... | 10:20 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, if extras is down, the cssu is down | 10:21 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG both are down for me from yesterday =( | 10:22 |
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| ZogG | btw is there any bug releated to alarm? as for past days i didn't woke up and there is no way i didn't here alaram, everytime i woke up alarm was on ( the window with snoze and stop) but i didn't hear anything | 10:23 |
| ZogG | no way i sleep so hard for past 3-4 days not to wake up =) | 10:23 |
| ruskie | <-- does always | 10:23 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG btw i got extra nokia phone too Nokia 1616 =) | 10:24 |
| ZogG | ruskie does always what? | 10:24 |
| ruskie | sleep so hard that anything I try to set as alarm has no effect | 10:24 |
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| MohammadAG | ZogG, the only bug I encountered was me waking up (only partially), turning off the alarm, then going back to sleep | 10:25 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG lol, cause you need to go to sleep ewarlier =) | 10:25 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG, btw i think i got job at elbit =))) | 10:26 |
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| MohammadAG | well, I decided not to go to school today, so I guess I'll be productive now | 10:26 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG, not good, you have to study as well | 10:27 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, do you get israeli bagrut? or how does it work? | 10:27 |
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| * ruskie wonders if he can remove all the locale data he doesn't need in share/microb-engine/chrome... | 10:28 | |
| ZogG | ruskie just rm -R / | 10:28 |
| MohammadAG | o_O | 10:29 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, GCEs | 10:29 |
| Metallikettu | Naughty boy | 10:29 |
| ZogG | ruskie lol, the screenshot i sent u, i just opened chromium with it and tried to switch song, took me time to realize why it doesn't work as it's screenshot =() | 10:29 |
| ruskie | rofl | 10:30 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG GCEs? | 10:30 |
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| ruskie | 14M freed... | 10:31 |
| ruskie | removed everything I don't use from /usr/share/locale ;) | 10:32 |
| Metallikettu | Has someone done any research why N900 is so slow and jerky all the time? Is it the disk I/O or the lack of ram? | 10:32 |
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| MohammadAG | technically, both | 10:32 |
| Metallikettu | Figured as much :/ | 10:33 |
| MohammadAG | low ram = swap = IO and the eMMC is slow so :P | 10:33 |
| RobbieThe1st | Metallikettu: edit /etc/powervr.d/hildon-desktop.ini and set the value to 1 | 10:33 |
| RobbieThe1st | Reboot. Transitions will be a lot smoother | 10:33 |
| MohammadAG | no, don't | 10:33 |
| Metallikettu | I really like the device but the usability is horrid sometimes. | 10:33 |
| MohammadAG | it was disabled for a reason | 10:33 |
| RobbieThe1st | Works perfectly for me... | 10:33 |
| Metallikettu | I took transitions off long time ago :) | 10:34 |
| MohammadAG | crashes my device | 10:34 |
| Metallikettu | helped alot | 10:34 |
| RobbieThe1st | Worst case, you need to disable it again | 10:34 |
| RobbieThe1st | But I've had absolutely no trouble with it | 10:34 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, but rebooting to fix it is annoying :/ | 10:34 |
| RobbieThe1st | To enable/disable it? Yea... Two minutes to see how you like it | 10:34 |
| Metallikettu | I really hope intel gets meego going or Mee will go :) | 10:35 |
| Metallikettu | I will keep N900 as an car computer though. | 10:35 |
| lloft306 | heh | 10:36 |
| RobbieThe1st | Hm... Y'know, I wonder why my n900 works when Mohammad's doesn't. Could it be OC/UC settings or say GPU frequency or something? | 10:36 |
| RobbieThe1st | 'course, I -know- I got lucky with my sample. | 10:37 |
| MohammadAG | Not sure, or my device's trolling me | 10:37 |
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| jacekowski | oc is bad for you | 10:37 |
| jacekowski | i love my new keyboard | 10:38 |
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| jacekowski | it makes better sound | 10:38 |
| jacekowski | and feels better | 10:38 |
| MohammadAG | morning jacekowski | 10:38 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: aren't you supposed to be at school? | 10:38 |
| RobbieThe1st | jacekowski: Of course it is. But it also makes things -very- nice. We all know OC'd devices will die sooner or later. | 10:38 |
| ZogG | jacekowski, wic one i want to buy mac keyboard or something simuliar | 10:38 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, supposed to, indeed | 10:38 |
| jacekowski | ZogG: i have mac keyboard to use with my n900 | 10:38 |
| ZogG | slim separete keys good material and easy on pushing buttons | 10:39 |
| jacekowski | ZogG: and even then it's not much more comfortable to use than builtin keyboard | 10:39 |
| ZogG | jacekowski, i want for desctop =) | 10:39 |
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| ZogG | real keyboard for n900 is for pussies =) | 10:39 |
| jacekowski | i'm just saying that n900 keyboard is about at same comfort level as apple keyboard | 10:40 |
| jacekowski | and it has strange keymap | 10:40 |
| jacekowski | so you have to fuck around with it to make it work | 10:40 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Speaking of strange keymap, I -just now- learned that shift+up/down works as home/end in the browser <_< | 10:40 |
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| mece | RobbieThe1st, jumps to top/bottom? | 10:41 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea | 10:41 |
| MohammadAG | o_O | 10:41 |
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| mece | RobbieThe1st, wow.. testing... | 10:41 |
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| * mece gasps | 10:42 | |
| RobbieThe1st | I dunno why I didn't figure it out until someone talked about shifted keys that hadn't been bound | 10:42 |
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| RobbieThe1st | and I went "hm..." *click* Cool. | 10:42 |
| * mece hugs and cuddles his beloved N900 | 10:42 | |
| mece | wow | 10:42 |
| mece | amazing | 10:42 |
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| MohammadAG | I like how the N900 is the only device that can run angry birds in portrait mode :P | 10:42 |
| mece | It's actually quite useful :D | 10:42 |
| lloft306 | awsome | 10:42 |
| mece | MohammadAG, it can run angry birds in portrait? | 10:43 |
| ZogG | RobbieThe1st i knew it =) | 10:43 |
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| lloft306 | hehe' | 10:43 |
| MohammadAG | mece, CTRL+SHIFT+R, the game lays out properly | 10:44 |
| MohammadAG | = awesome coding by rovio | 10:44 |
| MohammadAG | morning javispedro | 10:44 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG i'm gonna tweet it =) | 10:44 |
| * mece is also | 10:44 | |
| lloft306 | tweet tweet | 10:44 |
| javispedro | morning folks | 10:44 |
| * javispedro is at the ms wp7 event | 10:45 | |
| MohammadAG | KILL THEM ALL! | 10:45 |
| mece | hmm..it hung when i tried it.. | 10:45 |
| javispedro | front row obviously | 10:45 |
| MohammadAG | mece, try it again | 10:45 |
| RobbieThe1st | Eew | 10:45 |
| mece | javispedro, did you bring eggs and rotten fruit? | 10:45 |
| RobbieThe1st | ^^ | 10:45 |
| yannux | I don't have portrait mode with any application :( | 10:45 |
| mece | woohoo! | 10:45 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, I packed in an M4 carbide, let's see your excuse now | 10:45 |
| mece | omgomgomg | 10:45 |
| RobbieThe1st | More like rotten KIN phones! :P | 10:45 |
| RST38h | javispedro: So, have they got you under their...errrr...spell? | 10:46 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, he said he liked something about windows phone 7 yesterday | 10:46 |
| Metallikettu | RobbieThe1st: I enabled the setting no crashing so far | 10:46 |
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| Metallikettu | Transitions are a bit smoother | 10:47 |
| javispedro | so theyre obviously showing the 3 other ecosystems | 10:47 |
| RST38h | javispedro: BTW, the front row may not be a good idea, in case Ballmer starts throwing chairs | 10:47 |
| javispedro | apple mblackberry hp | 10:47 |
| MohammadAG | Metallikettu, open/close some dialogs :P | 10:47 |
| RST38h | No Android? :) | 10:47 |
| javispedro | no sign of android or nokia ;) | 10:47 |
| RobbieThe1st | Metallikettu: That's sort of what I found, though they are slightly slower due to it rendering all frames | 10:47 |
| RobbieThe1st | I'm gonna have to build a hacked-up transitions.ini file with fewer frames... | 10:47 |
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| MohammadAG | just change radius and radius_more to 0 | 10:48 |
| RobbieThe1st | Already did it; it's fast, but things like zooming -still- take almost .1s... | 10:48 |
| RobbieThe1st | I'm so used to near instant response on my Compiz-enabled desktop; transitions are so short and it runs beautifully. | 10:49 |
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| MohammadAG | thp's forced portrait patch is awesome | 10:50 |
| ruskie | forced portrait??? why does everyone want portairat mode so badly? | 10:51 |
| Metallikettu | For one hand use? | 10:51 |
| MohammadAG | it's useful to have | 10:51 |
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| mece | apparently rovio is at the intel applab | 10:53 |
| RobbieThe1st | Hm... and why would you want to use it with one hand? Cause your other is "busy"? *wink wink nudge nudge* :P | 10:53 |
| mece | LOL | 10:53 |
| Metallikettu | :) And you dont? are you a weirdo RobbieThe1st ? | 10:53 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG i don;t think forced portrait is awesome actully, as not all apps written properly to support portrait | 10:53 |
| RobbieThe1st | Certainly not on my phone :\ | 10:53 |
| ruskie | rootfs 228M 207M 18M 93% / <-- well not so bad... I'd still like to figure out what's abusing the space so much... time to start digging through var | 10:54 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, it can be taken forth later on to include a whitelist | 10:54 |
| mece | I haven't checked my rootfs in ages... | 10:54 |
| MohammadAG | contacts app for example supports proper portrait mode | 10:54 |
| mece | but why is it forced? | 10:55 |
| mece | or.. | 10:55 |
| mece | is it forced or autorotated? | 10:55 |
| MohammadAG | difference? | 10:56 |
| MohammadAG | all windows are rotated by h-d | 10:56 |
| MohammadAG | h-d = hildon-desktop | 10:57 |
| lloft306 | is angry birds in repo or just ovi? | 10:57 |
| mece | well forced sounds like it's always in portrait mode. | 10:57 |
| mece | lloft306, just ovi | 10:57 |
| yannux | how could I force rotation ? web browser doesn't do | 10:57 |
| lloft306 | k thnx | 10:57 |
| b004n | amazing chat | 10:58 |
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| mece | b004n, huh? | 10:59 |
| b004n | i just like to see maemo fans | 10:59 |
| b004n | nokia n900 | 10:59 |
| mece | b004n, :D | 10:59 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/242462267.png?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1297847760&Signature=lTSyA5NlySWyAX4NOqh9ciCQyUQ%3D | 10:59 |
| b004n | i luv the device | 10:59 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, :) | 11:00 |
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| mece | ZogG, could you link the twitpic page? | 11:00 |
| mece | so I can tweet it too | 11:00 |
| b004n | guys what do u think will we see meego from nokia at all? | 11:00 |
| mece | b004n, well they said they were releasing a device, so I guess they are. | 11:01 |
| b004n | mece, thx | 11:01 |
| javispedro | ms showing the nokia wp7 phone renders | 11:01 |
| RobbieThe1st | Cue "YOU SUCK", "UGLY" etc. | 11:02 |
| mece | LOL | 11:02 |
| mece | "BOOO!!" | 11:02 |
| ZogG | b004n, i love you | 11:02 |
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| b004n | just upset that nokia is not putting all efforts into maemo/meego as many of u, i see great potential from the device like n900 | 11:02 |
| javispedro | cto of nokia on stage | 11:02 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Meh; My view is if it doesn't have a root *nix terminal, it's not worth having | 11:03 |
| b004n | ZoG, luv u 2 ;-) | 11:03 |
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| mece | rovio says porting angry birds to meego from maemo is a piece of cake (naturally) | 11:04 |
| javispedro | "big companies partnershipping" "big mass required to build a succesfull ecosystem" | 11:05 |
| b004n | mece, it should be... enough of proprietary apis... | 11:05 |
| javispedro | "wp7 is brilliant" | 11:05 |
| lloft306 | thought i just saw it in the appup | 11:05 |
| mece | LOOOOL | 11:05 |
| mece | lloft306, are you at the appup event? | 11:05 |
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| lloft306 | no | 11:06 |
| mece | lloft306, is there a stream or something? | 11:06 |
| jarkkom_ | is MWC2011 still going on or what event you're talking about? | 11:06 |
| lloft306 | no i was just on the angry birds page and saw a link to appup | 11:06 |
| lloft306 | to get it | 11:06 |
| b004n | guys does anybody upgraded n900 battery to a bigger one? is it worth it? i didnt overclock but it eats up the battery quickly | 11:07 |
| RobbieThe1st | b004n: Mugen's the only option | 11:07 |
| RobbieThe1st | Unless you want to make a custom one with two standard batteries and a soldering iron <_< | 11:07 |
| b004n | RobbieThe1st, gotcha thx | 11:08 |
| pupnik | b004n: a spare battery and charger is probably as good or better | 11:08 |
| ruskie | fun... just found out where a lot of my rootfs space was hidding... /lib/modules/... forgot I made a backup copy of some modules... | 11:08 |
| RST38h | javispedro: so, are they simply bullshitting on stage, or do they have something to show? | 11:08 |
| ruskie | rootfs 228M 170M 55M 76% / that's more livable | 11:08 |
| javispedro | rst38h: bullshit, answering the "what if i am nokia developer" question now | 11:09 |
| b004n | pupnik, chargers i have everywhere i go already... ;-) | 11:09 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, can you ask what they were smoking when they made the partnership? | 11:09 |
| RobbieThe1st | ^^ | 11:09 |
| javispedro | "symbian not dead os, lots of phones shipping, more to ship" | 11:09 |
| RobbieThe1st | Probably something highly illegal | 11:09 |
| b004n | lol | 11:09 |
| MohammadAG | MeeWant MeeGo | 11:10 |
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| ZogG | mece, i saw what you did there =) | 11:10 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, Mee(Want + Go) | 11:10 |
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| javispedro | "will you port qt to wp7?" "NO" | 11:10 |
| ZogG | mece, http://twitpic.com/40ct2z and it's @ZogG =) | 11:10 |
| b004n | Elop is the 7th largest noninstitutional investor in MS, isnt it a conflict of interest in finn laws? | 11:10 |
| MohammadAG | that's it, I'm coming to Barcelona | 11:11 |
| RobbieThe1st | MohammadAG: Nah, nah, nah. /Mee[Want|Go]/ IIRC | 11:11 |
| javispedro | "build an ecosystem requires focus, ...., blah blah | 11:11 |
| javispedro | the model of wp7 is different | 11:11 |
| javispedro | rquires different framework | 11:11 |
| MohammadAG | so basically | 11:11 |
| MohammadAG | they switched all devs from gtk to Qt to .NET | 11:11 |
| Metallikettu | Yeah annoying times | 11:11 |
| javispedro | they dont want to bring another framework into the mix | 11:12 |
| javispedro | necause they think itll suck | 11:12 |
| MohammadAG | they already did | 11:12 |
| Metallikettu | No product has ever caused me to feel like this :D | 11:12 |
| b004n | .NET??? | 11:12 |
| javispedro | not because qml is bad | 11:12 |
| javispedro | blah blah | 11:12 |
| ZogG | javispedro what is msqt.com ? =) | 11:12 |
| ZogG | javispedro can you say to them hello from us? =) | 11:12 |
| javispedro | no :) | 11:12 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, seriously, can you ask about MeeGo or something? | 11:12 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Oh well, I guess Nokia doesn't need my buisness. .NET's horrible, and I refuse to use it. | 11:13 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, I'm guessing they're reading this channel backstage then whispering what should be said | 11:13 |
| javispedro | he akes questions | 11:13 |
| b004n | MohammadAG, LOL! | 11:13 |
| javispedro | any question? | 11:13 |
| b004n | when will we see MeeGo device? | 11:14 |
| MohammadAG | If I was there I'd shout "MEEGO FFS, WHERE'S MY N9" | 11:14 |
| Shapeshifter | so, meego moves on, hooray! | 11:14 |
| ZogG | mece, http://twitpic.com/40cy9h another one =) | 11:14 |
| b004n | javispedro, can u ask that? definite dates? | 11:14 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, ^ | 11:14 |
| javispedro | any interestiiing question ;) | 11:15 |
| MohammadAG | "First 100 developers that have their app published in the #intel store get a cash prize !!!!!! #AppUpMWC" | 11:15 |
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| * MohammadAG looks for fart sounds on the internet | 11:15 | |
| RobbieThe1st | heh | 11:16 |
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| MohammadAG | javispedro, I'm pretty sure we're all not interested in WP7, so guess not :) | 11:16 |
| MohammadAG | well | 11:16 |
| MohammadAG | "Will it blend?" | 11:16 |
| RobbieThe1st | ^^ | 11:17 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG =) | 11:17 |
| ZogG | <MohammadAG> "First 100 developers that have their app published in the #intel store get a cash prize !!!!!! #AppUpMWC" / OMG OMG OMG OMG | 11:18 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Let me guess, they are both smiling like they are cats and just eaten a mouse? | 11:18 |
| MohammadAG | I don't think cats smile when they eat a mouse :p | 11:18 |
| javispedro | they smile when they talk about how they're been working together =) | 11:18 |
| ZogG | javispedro if the meego device succeed would it make Nokia to rethink the strategy ? | 11:19 |
| ruskie | RST38h, so far I haven't seen those smiles on either faces from the various photos I've seen | 11:19 |
| ZogG | javispedro ask about dual boot, if there is chance to have same device with option to choose WP7 or meego | 11:19 |
| ruskie | http://www.amnesty.si/files/images/Zoran Jankovic.preview.JPG <-- this guy on the other hand(our Mayor)... has that smile constantly ;) | 11:19 |
| javispedro | "nokia doesnt really see the need to innovate on the ui, they will center on hw & services" | 11:20 |
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| RST38h | ruskie: Here is your first time: http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4d55266accd1d5c33a150000/elop-ballmer-nokia.png | 11:20 |
| ruskie | seriously I can't say they have that smile... | 11:20 |
| ZogG | mece, MohammadAG i wouldn't be pissed off if you unfollow me, cause i write a lot in russian and less in english but i'm trying my best =) | 11:20 |
| ruskie | they actually look like idiots with those smiles | 11:20 |
| MohammadAG | now if only Ansii and friends could form a new small company | 11:20 |
| RST38h | ruskie: Consider the possibiilty of removing "like" | 11:21 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, i would need laetr help on Qt and maemo SDK, started to make some app, if you don't mind =) | 11:21 |
| ruskie | RST38h, hehe ;) | 11:21 |
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| ZogG | http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4d55266accd1d5c33a150000/elop-ballmer-nokia.png should it be "smile and wave hand" as in madagascar with pinguins scene or should it be "hahaha nailed them@ | 11:22 |
| MohammadAG | Sigh, I really need libqtm-12-connectivity | 11:23 |
| Shapeshifter | I guess for nokia and microsoft it's not a bad move anyway | 11:23 |
| ruskie | for nokia it is | 11:23 |
| Shapeshifter | microsoft gets a huge hardware manufacturer, nokia doesn't need to care that much about innovation anymore, a thing which they weren't good at for years, and the possibly sell more hardware. | 11:24 |
| RST38h | They actually were pretty good at innovation | 11:25 |
| Shapeshifter | I love my n900, but be honest, nokia has been a sleeping giant for years now | 11:25 |
| RST38h | And Microsoft has been pretty bad at innovation | 11:25 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: agree with that second thing.. | 11:25 |
| RST38h | So, it leaves a question what kind of "innovation" we can expect as result of this quasi-merger | 11:25 |
| Shapeshifter | but what innovative things has nokia released in the past years? | 11:25 |
| ruskie | microsoft really hasn't innovated on anything relevant in the last decade | 11:25 |
| random-900 | who is "ansii and friends"? | 11:26 |
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| ruskie | possible planb ? | 11:26 |
| ruskie | erm possibly the planb guys? | 11:26 |
| Veggen_ | ruskie: only under its own definition of the word. Which is, "take something, glorify it, and sell it to the unsuspecting public". | 11:26 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: Smartphone. Mobile Internet. Gaming phone. | 11:26 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: Non-MIDI ringtones. | 11:27 |
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| RST38h | Need more? | 11:27 |
| jatt | there is no need for plan b | 11:27 |
| ruskie | Veggen_, actually take something... copy it exactly... merge with that other thing we coppied from those other guys... and sell it... | 11:27 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: true, but that's years in the past | 11:27 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: for the last 5 years at least, there hasn't been much coming from nokia | 11:27 |
| jatt | Elop's strategy is correct | 11:27 |
| jatt | his logic is sound | 11:27 |
| jarkkom_ | problem with all those innovations is that nokia fucked them up | 11:27 |
| RST38h | jatt: Do you have a mathematical proof of correctness? | 11:27 |
| jatt | absolutely | 11:28 |
| jatt | I will publish it soon | 11:28 |
| RST38h | jatt: Please, demonstrate | 11:28 |
| jarkkom_ | like with ngage, they went around talking to game developers asking them what they'd require to be able to make games for such a phone | 11:28 |
| jarkkom_ | and then nokia ignored it all | 11:28 |
| Shapeshifter | jarkkom_: right, ngage could have been huge | 11:28 |
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| jatt | Elop will bring nokia to a new level | 11:28 |
| Shapeshifter | it almost took off, even | 11:28 |
| Shapeshifter | but then, it was nothing but a fad | 11:29 |
| Shadikka_ | Buying Nokia shares now wouldn't probably be a too shabby idea. | 11:29 |
| *** Shadikka_ is now known as Shadikka | 11:29 | |
| jatt | shares will go up | 11:29 |
| b004n | Shapeshifter, i agree ;-) | 11:29 |
| ZogG | http://i.imgur.com/MO36D.png | 11:30 |
| jatt | what is this image | 11:30 |
| jatt | is safe? | 11:30 |
| b004n | jatt: maybe for a short term, but strategically value of Nokia will be diminished because they will loose its competitive advantage and unique value proposition | 11:30 |
| ZogG | yes | 11:31 |
| ZogG | jatt, yes | 11:31 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: don't you agree? | 11:31 |
| ZogG | RST38h, ^ | 11:31 |
| * ZogG xmms2> Wilco - Solitaire ["Wilco (The Album)" 2009] | 11:32 | |
| jatt | b004n: are you talking about Symbian? | 11:32 |
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| RST38h | Shapeshifter: ? | 11:32 |
| b004n | i just could not believe that a decison by Nokia will affect me and some of mh friends in such a way as an idiological failure ... | 11:32 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: for at least 5 years, nokia has had no innovation. | 11:32 |
| ZogG | Shapeshifter maemo was kinda inovation | 11:33 |
| jatt | b004n: Nokia's competitive advantage is their hardware. Now together with Microsoft they will also have a competitive advantage in their software | 11:33 |
| b004n | jatt: Symbian included... but its more | 11:33 |
| jatt | software is Microsoft's business | 11:33 |
| ZogG | if they add phone abilities from n700 it would be different | 11:33 |
| jatt | hardware is Nokia's business | 11:33 |
| b004n | jatt: disagree.. their uvp is the end product soft+hardware | 11:33 |
| ZogG | as all pads and tablets are now all about it | 11:33 |
| Shapeshifter | ZogG: yeah, but it's never been marketed properly, it has been marketed the wrong way (leading to unhappy customers), and it's not been continued, right at the point where it started emerging beyond a geek gadget | 11:33 |
| ZogG | Shapeshifter coz they didn't think it would be the thing of 2011 =) | 11:34 |
| Shapeshifter | they fail. now tablets are taking off | 11:34 |
| Shapeshifter | and they had like a 3 year advantage | 11:34 |
| Shapeshifter | or even more | 11:35 |
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| Shapeshifter | they started with the n700 or what it was called years ago, and now that tablets are taking off, they're killing it... seriously... | 11:35 |
| b004n | i just could not believe that a decison by Nokia will affect me and some of mh friends in such a way as an idiological failure ... the problem instead of focusing bfinging meego first and then pushing it hard to create ecosystem around it will make a greater sense. | 11:35 |
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| jatt | there is no accountability in meego | 11:36 |
| ZogG | b004n the life is unfair | 11:36 |
| jatt | you cannot say, as a manager, we need a release this date or that date | 11:36 |
| javispedro | wth is a cloud client | 11:36 |
| jatt | the answer will be | 11:36 |
| jatt | we will release it when it's ready | 11:36 |
| jatt | such a nerdy response is useless for corporations | 11:36 |
| b004n | ZogG, life is very fair. i see balance in many things. ;-) | 11:37 |
| ZogG | you can but it wouldn't work you know =) | 11:37 |
| ZogG | like it can work if you have enuf resources and people, but your release date should be logical | 11:37 |
| RST38h | no | 11:37 |
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| ZogG | RST38h yes | 11:38 |
| Per_n900 | jatt: please stop now. Microsoft releases their software when its alpha and then releases service packs to get it to beta. Just please stop, ok? | 11:38 |
| Shapeshifter | Per_n900: tru dat | 11:38 |
| jatt | but you have a release date | 11:38 |
| b004n | good call, Per_n900!!! | 11:38 |
| RST38h | ZogG: In reality, the management sells the non-existent, badly defined product to clients, then tels developers that they have to deliver it yesterday | 11:38 |
| ZogG | javispedro for phones i think it's client that help you to sync phone bookmrks photos with desktop or any other device | 11:38 |
| jatt | with meego you don't | 11:38 |
| Shapeshifter | jatt: huh? you forgot about how late vista was, already? | 11:38 |
| Shapeshifter | like, 5 years late? | 11:38 |
| jatt | you get "when it's ready" | 11:38 |
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| RST38h | jatt: Meego has a release schedule | 11:39 |
| ZogG | Shapeshifter and it was shitty | 11:39 |
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| Shapeshifter | very | 11:39 |
| jatt | well it was too late | 11:39 |
| RST38h | If you have not bothered to see it, does not mean it is not there | 11:40 |
| jatt | release end of 2011? | 11:40 |
| ZogG | Shapeshifter but on other hand they fixed it with w7 pretty quick | 11:40 |
| Shapeshifter | jatt: vista, do you remember it? | 11:40 |
| Per_n900 | jatt: sigh. YHou do not know what you are talking about. | 11:40 |
| ZogG | jatt look at any selfrespectfull opensource they do release on time | 11:40 |
| Shapeshifter | or should I call it "longhorn" | 11:40 |
| ZogG | ubuntu / xfce4 e.g. | 11:40 |
| jatt | so does microsoft everything wrong? | 11:41 |
| jatt | I don't think so | 11:41 |
| ZogG | before it was how good you are in convincing people to buy your product, today people search for support and longterm support, they prefer to wait for something good than just jump in | 11:42 |
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| ZogG | so promissing without delivering is mistake of nokia | 11:42 |
| Per_n900 | jatt: what have they done right?? | 11:42 |
| Shapeshifter | ZogG: well in case of the n900, they delivered but it didn't do what they advertised | 11:42 |
| jatt | their deal with nokia | 11:43 |
| jatt | their ecosystem | 11:43 |
| jatt | listen to Elop's words | 11:43 |
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| Per_n900 | jatt: ok. You are right. All will be good. sigh. | 11:44 |
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| Shapeshifter | I still like intel though :< | 11:45 |
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| jatt | you are right | 11:45 |
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| javispedro | the microsoft ui designer works pretty much like flash | 11:45 |
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| ZogG | Shapeshifter jatt maybe it will be good with wp7 and Nokia will get profit and phones would be awesome, but it would make Nokia just another phone brand that has nothing special, it wouldn't be competitor to others as it would be the same phones as others =) | 11:47 |
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| Shapeshifter | I don't really know wp7, but microsoft products have a track record of disappointing me badly | 11:47 |
| jatt | well n900 wasn't like anything else and only nerds bought it (I bought one) | 11:48 |
| jatt | and nokia's strength is his hardware | 11:48 |
| jatt | that's his business | 11:48 |
| jatt | Nokia tried to be "something special" but then meego releases were damn to slow and they decided to go to the professionals | 11:49 |
| RST38h | nokia did not try to be special, it was special i.e. different from other offerings | 11:49 |
| RST38h | now it is not. do you think someone will by its devices? | 11:49 |
| RST38h | also check the sales of wp7 devices in 4q2010 and make conclusions | 11:50 |
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| Kowalczyk | I rather go for iPhone then a nokia with wp7. im afraid | 11:50 |
| Kowalczyk | P | 11:50 |
| Per_n900 | jatt: professionals... Are you serious?????? | 11:50 |
| Shapeshifter | well, anyway, considering that there still is competition e.g. on the android market, nokia has no worries | 11:50 |
| jatt | absolutely | 11:50 |
| jatt | microsoft are professionals and they provide accountability | 11:50 |
| RST38h | jatt: Frankly, you are either trolling or your head is stuck where sun does not shine | 11:50 |
| Shapeshifter | if nokia makes better wp7 phones than other brands, they will have success. I don't see much of a problem for nokia. | 11:50 |
| Per_n900 | jatt: you are just a troll. | 11:50 |
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| RST38h | jatt: Out of academic curiosity, which one it is? | 11:51 |
| jatt | I love nokia I own a n900 myself, but open source has his flaws, and is a big pain in the neck for corporations to interact with their communities | 11:51 |
| javispedro | ms: "no plans to talk about native apps today" | 11:52 |
| * MohammadAG translates to: we don't have any native apps yet | 11:52 | |
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| javispedro | i mean native as in non .net | 11:52 |
| RST38h | jatt: So, is it #2 then? | 11:52 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: They also do not have: localization, cut&paste, multitasking, and sd card support | 11:53 |
| Shapeshifter | wat. | 11:53 |
| Shapeshifter | no copy paste? | 11:53 |
| RST38h | no | 11:53 |
| Shapeshifter | is this iOS3? | 11:53 |
| Shapeshifter | that is horrible | 11:53 |
| ZogG | hmm some ukraine guy just made 4g modem driver for linux for Sagem f@st 9520 and Seowon SWU-3220A =) | 11:53 |
| RST38h | no, it is WP7. happy now? | 11:53 |
| MohammadAG | it has smart copy & paste | 11:53 |
| Shapeshifter | no sd card support?? | 11:53 |
| MohammadAG | the kinda that decides you only want to copy numbers | 11:53 |
| RST38h | No. | 11:54 |
| javispedro | it has copy paste | 11:54 |
| MohammadAG | phone numbers that is | 11:54 |
| RST38h | it WILL have copy paste | 11:54 |
| Shapeshifter | what do you mean, no multitasking... Okay I haven't had a single look at wp7 | 11:54 |
| RST38h | Not HAS | 11:54 |
| javispedro | the microsoft guy also said they invented copy paste!! | 11:54 |
| Shapeshifter | microsoft also invented bash scripts | 11:54 |
| Shapeshifter | well, at least they have the patent | 11:54 |
| javispedro | (on the desktop that is ;) ) | 11:54 |
| RST38h | javispedro: "We invente copypaste. Again." | 11:54 |
| Shapeshifter | xD | 11:54 |
| xkr47 | jorma ollila will talk on a finnish tv program today | 11:54 |
| jatt | never heard of that bum | 11:54 |
| jatt | who is he | 11:54 |
| Shapeshifter | ah wait, not bash, sudo | 11:55 |
| ZogG | jatt what is th problem to interact, when users just say what they expect and even give you ready for use solution ( for example nokia could built in fmms in pr1.3) =) | 11:55 |
| Shapeshifter | microsoft patented sudo | 11:55 |
| xkr47 | jatt, troll | 11:55 |
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| ZogG | javispedro did they invent blue color? | 11:55 |
| Shapeshifter | ZogG: they invented rainbows | 11:55 |
| ZogG | Shapeshifter seriously they patented sudo? | 11:55 |
| Shapeshifter | but no gold at the end | 11:56 |
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| Shapeshifter | ZogG: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111094923390 | 11:56 |
| Shapeshifter | ZogG: pretty much, yes. | 11:56 |
| javispedro | "if you want to develop for wp7 on a mac, just install windows on it!" (audience laughs) | 11:56 |
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| ZogG | it's liek kamasutra, thousands of people were sweating and trying hard and some guy just made a book and got all attention =) | 11:56 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: they have sd card support | 11:56 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: there was a thing about htc hd2 | 11:56 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, oh god | 11:56 |
| ZogG | javispedro hahah =) | 11:56 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: there is sd card inside | 11:56 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: Does not count | 11:57 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: phone is just not made to be user replaceable | 11:57 |
| jacekowski | ehm | 11:57 |
| jacekowski | not a phone | 11:57 |
| xkr47 | /ignore jatt | 11:57 |
| jacekowski | card itself | 11:57 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: to be fair they do require sd connectors on devices BUT force OEMs to block them from usage | 11:57 |
| RST38h | jacekowski; apparently got plans to swap to sd card, based on some info | 11:57 |
| Shapeshifter | I'll need to try one of these wp7 things some day. sounds like a horrible OS | 11:57 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: not really | 11:57 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: it's quite nice os | 11:57 |
| jacekowski | way better than first iphone os | 11:58 |
| RST38h | Ah, wait, have I forgotten that WP7 comes with CGA-like colors? | 11:58 |
| Shapeshifter | but he just said "no multitasking and no copy/paste" | 11:58 |
| jacekowski | but still bit behind | 11:58 |
| Shapeshifter | jacekowski: well that comparison is a bit unfair | 11:58 |
| Shapeshifter | the first ios was horrible | 11:58 |
| Shapeshifter | actually, ios was laughable until ios4 imo | 11:58 |
| Shapeshifter | now it's not so bad | 11:58 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: Based on previous experience with Windows, I am sure that WP will be laughable to the very end | 11:59 |
| Shapeshifter | :> | 11:59 |
| javispedro | rst38h: according to ui guy here, wp7 colors inspired by "public transportation systems" | 11:59 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 11:59 |
| ZogG | jacekowski, i bet it's nice but once again not for 2011, in 2011 people do know computer and want to configurate it as they want, they want choice. maybe back in 90 not everyone knew what is what and they just used what they had, today most of people know how to handle computer and everyone want to work as it's comfy for him | 11:59 |
| RST38h | Shit, I am still laughing every time Win7 decides to take a 40-second break from work | 11:59 |
| javispedro | (thats why the call the ui "metro" seemingly) | 11:59 |
| RST38h | javispedro: OMG | 12:00 |
| jacekowski | well i would even say better than iphone os 2.0 i had | 12:00 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Those Redmond mushrooms must have been really bad | 12:00 |
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| jacekowski | RST38h: i never had problems with windows 7 | 12:01 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I do think they have chosen the wrong kind | 12:01 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: Lucky, lucky guy | 12:01 |
| ZogG | RST38h, i think you are too negative and fan boy, i don't like windows as well but i have nothing against it, it's just doesn't suit my requirements | 12:01 |
| ZogG | one thing i hate about windows that they choose standarts =( | 12:01 |
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| RST38h | ZogG: You do not become positive after having to do work on something that barely works | 12:01 |
| RST38h | ZogG: And of course you have to keep in mind that it is not Win7 in general but a particular corporate install of it | 12:02 |
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| Shapeshifter | corporate installs of windows are making me choke myself | 12:02 |
| ZogG | i have windows at work at computer for browsing and fun and it's enuf to surf web and watch a movie. but it would be enuf to do what i do daily with my computer | 12:03 |
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| ZogG | RST38h Shapeshifter it was just the thought that something free can't be better, but now for making contract with MS any guy in corporation who is responsible for it just get a lot of money | 12:04 |
| ZogG | it's the same not only in computers | 12:04 |
| Shapeshifter | "enuf"? | 12:04 |
| Shapeshifter | http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html related | 12:04 |
| jatt | and is wp7 so bad? | 12:05 |
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| jatt | what are the issues? | 12:05 |
| jatt | too slow? | 12:05 |
| RobbieThe1st | jatt: No Xterm | 12:06 |
| jatt | I mean for normal users | 12:07 |
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| jatt | no geeks | 12:07 |
| ZogG | ie as default browser =) | 12:08 |
| jatt | so those are the issues? | 12:08 |
| Shapeshifter | no issues | 12:08 |
| Shapeshifter | move along, please, nothing to see here | 12:08 |
| kerio | jatt: oh not you again ._. | 12:09 |
| kerio | symbian > wp7 | 12:09 |
| kerio | and symbian is *bad* | 12:09 |
| ZogG | maemo > * | 12:09 |
| Shapeshifter | maemo is a pretty bad distro though | 12:10 |
| Shapeshifter | still awesome for a mobile | 12:10 |
| ZogG | http://twitpic.com/40clee | 12:10 |
| Shapeshifter | but it's so broken :| | 12:10 |
| MohammadAG | what does ld: cannot find -lQtConnectivity | 12:10 |
| MohammadAG | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status mean? | 12:10 |
| ZogG | why is it bad? and why is it broken | 12:10 |
| MohammadAG | achipa, I can confirm it's a packaging issue btw | 12:11 |
| MohammadAG | achipa, but I'm unable to build libqtm, so can't fix it | 12:11 |
| MohammadAG | anyway, I only need the headers and bluetooth libs | 12:11 |
| kerio | ZogG: oh please | 12:12 |
| ZogG | the problem of maemo was that it was meant to be for one device only so it's not that customizable and have bad framework e.g. most of UI parts are built in and you can install 3rd party apps but not really change them as system default at least not everywhere | 12:12 |
| Shapeshifter | ZogG: too much deviation from standard linux practices. Things like busybox, too much hacking in the init process, weird useless stuff like BME etc. | 12:12 |
| kerio | ~messybox | 12:12 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 12:12 |
| kerio | ~optification | 12:12 |
| infobot | methinks optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 | 12:12 |
| Shapeshifter | exactly | 12:12 |
| Shapeshifter | maemo is very messy | 12:13 |
| MohammadAG | Maemo 5 is messier than the rest | 12:13 |
| Shapeshifter | I mean, great think that we actually have a pretty cool linux phone now, instead of some hacked-up community project running on an iphone or something, but it's still messy | 12:13 |
| ZogG | Shapeshifter Nokia just don't know how to work with opensource, they wanted devs to develop but not change or control, they wanted to be in cioontrol of everything system releated | 12:13 |
| Shapeshifter | s/think/thing | 12:13 |
| Shapeshifter | oh and the one thing they *should* have changed is package management. having the index offline and using apt is inane | 12:14 |
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| Shapeshifter | takes years to do anything in HAM | 12:14 |
| javispedro | ??? | 12:14 |
| kerio | apt is awesome, shut up | 12:15 |
| javispedro | so you're on one hand complaining about diverging, and on the other you request diverging from apt? | 12:15 |
| kerio | it's HAM's fault for being a sluggy fat elephant | 12:15 |
| RST38h | People, why is everyone suddenly an armchair analyst who knows everything about Nokia, its capacities and business strategy? | 12:15 |
| compengi | does "hal-device bme" show an exact battery info? cause i full charged the battery and it shows 95% only and after 2 hours, the output percentage didn't change | 12:15 |
| kerio | RST38h: no we're just complaining about nerd stuff now | 12:15 |
| kerio | we can do that | 12:15 |
| Shapeshifter | javispedro: the index should be on the server. the server should perform searches, the handset shouldn't need to reload the entire database everytime I click on "download" in HAM. | 12:15 |
| Shapeshifter | javispedro: do you think HAM is good? | 12:16 |
| compengi | fully* | 12:16 |
| MohammadAG | HAM is good | 12:16 |
| RST38h | I mean, I don't care much about jatt or other lesser known candidates for /ignore, but I thought much better about a lot of other people | 12:16 |
| kerio | compengi: the percentage indicator is *at best* a fair estimate | 12:16 |
| MohammadAG | on an i5 | 12:16 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, HAM != apt :) | 12:16 |
| Shapeshifter | well. apt is a different story... | 12:16 |
| compengi | kerio, why then doesn't it change constantly | 12:16 |
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| kerio | compengi: because it's usally a bad estimate | 12:17 |
| kerio | :) | 12:17 |
| kerio | i'd only trust the... hmm... first decimal digit? | 12:17 |
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| javispedro | MohammanAG: Ham is a frontend to apt. | 12:18 |
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| MohammadAG | javispedro, no, it's a frontend to apt-worker | 12:18 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: Could you also add the author of each change to the changelog? | 12:18 |
| MohammadAG | apt-worker is a frontend to apt | 12:19 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: And if it has been fixed by Nokia, just say "Nokia" | 12:19 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, hmm? | 12:19 |
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| Shapeshifter | So, what linux distros do you guys use these days? | 12:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Slackware | 12:19 |
| Shadikka | *cue in the holy war* | 12:19 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: In the CSSU changelog, it would be useful to know who made which change | 12:20 |
| Shapeshifter | Shadikka: :) | 12:20 |
| Shadikka | Arch and Debian. :P | 12:20 |
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| MohammadAG | RST38h, I see, it's all on gitorious so shouldn't be hard | 12:22 |
| MohammadAG | I use Ubuntu Vista | 12:22 |
| MohammadAG | who uses Debian 7? | 12:22 |
| RobbieThe1st | Probably me | 12:22 |
| Shapeshifter | I use Fedora XP | 12:22 |
| Shapeshifter | it's much better than Slackware ME | 12:23 |
| MohammadAG | what about Red Hat ME? | 12:23 |
| Shapeshifter | is that a service pack to Red Hat 98plus! ? | 12:23 |
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| MohammadAG | yeah, it's service pack 2! | 12:24 |
| MohammadAG | you forgot about Red Hat 98SE | 12:24 |
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| timeless | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2026587/plan-b-uprising-nokia-leadership-dies-death | 12:36 |
| Sicelo | hi all :) | 12:36 |
| jatt | nine shareholders lol | 12:36 |
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| Sicelo | does N900 support CDMA EVDO REV A, CDMA 2000 1X? | 12:37 |
| jatt | absolutely | 12:37 |
| timeless | jatt: well, you too could be a shareholder, for under 10dol'u | 12:37 |
| Sicelo | also, does it take an R-UIM card? | 12:37 |
| timeless | Sicelo: n900 only does gsm | 12:37 |
| jatt | yeah but 9? and why they didn't speak up when the _majority_ of shareholders agreed with Elop's strategy? | 12:37 |
| Sicelo | ahh, thanks timeless | 12:37 |
| timeless | jatt: they probably weren't asked | 12:38 |
| Corsac | jatt: did the majority of shareholds agree? | 12:38 |
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| jatt | oh yeah | 12:38 |
| jatt | Nokia can't do anything without its shareholder's agreement | 12:39 |
| ruskie | and that is subject to manipulations... | 12:39 |
| alterego | http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3537&Itemid=74 | 12:40 |
| jatt | are you saying Elop's election as CEO was manipulated? | 12:40 |
| * RST38h sighs and /ignores the troll | 12:40 | |
| alterego | ruskie: you mean bribes? | 12:40 |
| alterego | :) | 12:40 |
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| ruskie | alterego, no... you don't need those if you know how to manipulate people | 12:41 |
| jatt | there is no proof | 12:41 |
| jatt | Elop is legit | 12:41 |
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| alterego | Meh, who cares? | 12:42 |
| ruskie | who cares what? | 12:42 |
| alterego | How Elop became CEO | 12:42 |
| alterego | Can't change it. | 12:42 |
| ruskie | there are ways to change it | 12:43 |
| alterego | I say we just wait and see | 12:43 |
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| ruskie | but I'd rather not say them out loud | 12:43 |
| kerio | Elop comes in, share goes down - never a miscommunication | 12:43 |
| kerio | you can't explain that! | 12:43 |
| alterego | Why don't we have a silent protest | 12:43 |
| jatt | share will go up | 12:43 |
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| ruskie | alterego, because silence == acceptance | 12:44 |
| jatt | the new phone with wp7 will be a revolution | 12:44 |
| jatt | and then stocks will rise | 12:44 |
| alterego | It'll be shit, because WP7 is crap | 12:44 |
| jatt | the Elop hate here is unbelievable | 12:45 |
| alterego | "We'll do all your software, you just do what you're good at, cameras and hardware" | 12:45 |
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| timeless | jatt: selecting Elop doesn't select a strategy, it selects a CEO | 12:45 |
| RobbieThe1st | Wp7's not gonna be any better than Windiows | 12:45 |
| timeless | CEO then picks a strategy | 12:45 |
| RobbieThe1st | Which is mainly used because of the legacy software problem | 12:46 |
| kerio | RobbieThe1st: except without legacy software | 12:46 |
| jatt | ok, maybe you are right, I see some pictures of wp7 and it looks like zune, that sucks | 12:47 |
| kerio | alterego: the WP7 phone will be a total flop, they'll kick Elop in the butt, nokia will go back to making awesome phones with a mediocre OS like it did, and everything will stay the same | 12:47 |
| alterego | jatt, I've used it, it's just boring | 12:47 |
| psycho_oreos | discussion of wp7 should be banned, it has nothing to do wih maemo | 12:47 |
| jatt | it looks boring all black and white | 12:47 |
| jatt | wtf | 12:47 |
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| ruskie | trolls should be banned... | 12:48 |
| psycho_oreos | indeed | 12:48 |
| ruskie | but then /ignore helps | 12:48 |
| alterego | Boring and lacking key functions that you expect from a device, things that S60 always had and Maemo always had. | 12:48 |
| psycho_oreos | where's the ops when you needed them? | 12:48 |
| timeless | alterego: sorry, maemo was missing <sound recorder> | 12:48 |
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| alterego | timeless: so? does wp7 have that? :D | 12:48 |
| timeless | it was also missing Snakes! | 12:48 |
| * ruskie never used sound recorder on any phone he had... | 12:48 | |
| alterego | timeless: easy app that was released after about two months :P | 12:49 |
| alterego | I'm not going to buy a phone that doesn't have multitasking and copy & paste | 12:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - sim toolkit just got a lot more vital. | 12:49 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/14/facebook_sim/ | 12:49 |
| toggles | holy crap.. | 12:49 |
| timeless | alterego: oddly, c+p isn't really that necessary | 12:50 |
| * ruskie tries to figure out how fecesbook on sim is actually vital... | 12:50 | |
| psycho_oreos | I recall DocScrutinizer said something about SIM toolkit, something dreaded about them iirc | 12:50 |
| toggles | you nikiaplan? people have been busy | 12:50 |
| ruskie | timeless, I've used c+p more often than sms ;) | 12:50 |
| timeless | toggles: have you seen http://www.nokiaplanx.com/ | 12:50 |
| jatt | most people use facebook | 12:51 |
| jatt | of course is vital | 12:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | Sim toolkit + facebook is a way of letting _really_ cheap phones use it. Ones without internet | 12:51 |
| timeless | SpeedEvil: yeah that was a wierd coincidence | 12:51 |
| psycho_oreos | wonder how well would that work | 12:52 |
| alterego | I thought Facade-book already had sms options. | 12:52 |
| psycho_oreos | I thought that was pay service :) | 12:52 |
| timeless | alterego: sure, but that doesn't make it easy to use | 12:52 |
| timeless | it sounds like this gives you access to more than just status updates | 12:53 |
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| alterego | Yeah, the basic sim menu system sounds cool | 12:53 |
| alterego | Though I wouldn't personally use it, it's just a cool basic tech :) | 12:53 |
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| bash` | is there a way to use the maemo flasher with libusb 0.1.3? | 12:54 |
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| alterego | Oh now you're cross posting :P | 12:54 |
| psycho_oreos | wow sounds ancient that version | 12:55 |
| alterego | bash`: does it not work for you? What OS are you running? | 12:55 |
| bash` | alterego: I'm using Arch Linux, and libusb version is 0.1.3, if I downgrade to 0.1.12 it works | 12:55 |
| alterego | Interesting, and what does it say when it's not working? | 12:56 |
| mece | ZogG, That's why I implemented translate in tweed suit :) (regarding you tweeting in russian that you mentioned some hours ago) | 12:56 |
| bash` | alterego: Unable to enumerate USB buses | 12:56 |
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| alterego | bash`: is that dmesg output? | 12:57 |
| bash` | alterego: no, that's flasher output | 12:57 |
| alterego | Hrm, weird | 12:58 |
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| ketas | some talk about different "ecosystems", can't we just make one? | 12:58 |
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| alterego | ketas: where's the fun and drama in that? And what ecosystem would you suggest? | 12:58 |
| jatt | microsoft already has a great ecosystem | 12:58 |
| jatt | no need to make a new one | 12:59 |
| alterego | jatt: I admit, MSDN is very good and the tools are extremely good. | 12:59 |
| alterego | But so is Qt | 12:59 |
| alterego | And Qt is more fun | 12:59 |
| alterego | And portable | 12:59 |
| ketas | why microsoft doesn't rule the world then? | 12:59 |
| jatt | but qt has no ecosystem | 13:00 |
| alterego | jatt: it has a great ecosystem, | 13:00 |
| jatt | is just a bunch of hackers | 13:00 |
| jatt | most in basements | 13:00 |
| jatt | no accountability there | 13:00 |
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| alterego | qt.nokia.com is brilliant. | 13:00 |
| mece | http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/a-tech-ecosystem-for-the-rest-of-us/ | 13:00 |
| alterego | then there's the qt developer site. | 13:00 |
| alterego | #qt | 13:01 |
| MohammadAG | Skype uses Qt | 13:01 |
| MohammadAG | and last I checked, Skype isn't a bunch of hackers | 13:01 |
| bash` | alterego: is there a way to get maemo-flasher sources? | 13:01 |
| MohammadAG | bash`, no | 13:01 |
| ketas | since when bunch of hackers became insult | 13:02 |
| alterego | bash`: why are you loading kernel anyway? use uboot. | 13:02 |
| MohammadAG | ketas, it's not an insult | 13:02 |
| alterego | bash`: enable the extras-devel repo on your N900 and install the uboot kernel. | 13:02 |
| ketas | s/insult/something bad/ | 13:02 |
| infobot | ketas meant: since when bunch of hackers became something bad | 13:02 |
| bash` | alterego: right, uboot is a solution | 13:02 |
| mece | what ketas said. MohammadAG I think he was referring to jatt's comment. | 13:02 |
| alterego | Then it'll load meego auto magically if you have the microsd inserted. | 13:02 |
| alterego | bash`: you can also get it to boot maemo manually by interrupting the timeout on boot and typing "run noloboot" | 13:04 |
| bash` | alterego: the last time I used it (a couple of months ago) I was not able to edit the default boot, I'd like to run Maemo as default | 13:04 |
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| alterego | bash`: which is generally what I do when I can't be bothered to take out the sd card | 13:04 |
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| bash` | ok | 13:04 |
| mece | I'd also want it to default to noloboot | 13:04 |
| alterego | bash`: yeah, it's a shame you can't change the default. but meh, how often to you reboot :P | 13:04 |
| mece | uboot is oss afaict | 13:05 |
| alterego | mece: should be quite easy to do, but I don't know off hand how, maybe have a chat with stskeeps in #meego-arm | 13:05 |
| bash` | alterego: never :P but once it rebooted because of a "kernel error" or something like that | 13:05 |
| alterego | bash`: :) Well like I said, if you interrupt the boot count down you can type "run noloboot" to get it to go to maemo | 13:06 |
| bash` | yes I know that...installing uboot :) | 13:06 |
| * bash` needs to buy a microSD class 6! | 13:06 | |
| alterego | bash`: also, you can always download the uboot kernel package and install it and uninstall it when you don't plan on using meego for a while. | 13:07 |
| alterego | bash`: my class 4 works great tbh :P | 13:07 |
| bash` | alterego: class 2, too slow! | 13:07 |
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| MohammadAG | emmc ftw | 13:07 |
| alterego | yeah that is probably quite bad :d | 13:07 |
| bash` | btw, Meegons are awesome :D | 13:08 |
| bash` | alterego: wrong channel again :P | 13:09 |
| alterego | Is a MeeGone what they call us after the MS deal? :D | 13:09 |
| alterego | jk | 13:09 |
| bash` | :D | 13:09 |
| alterego | Or is a MeeGon what the LHC are looking for? | 13:09 |
| mece | alterego, oh yeah, I thought it sounded familiar | 13:10 |
| alterego | MeeGon could be a cool name for a game :P | 13:10 |
| alterego | With the little meego characters | 13:10 |
| mece | hee | 13:11 |
| mece | :D | 13:11 |
| mece | they run around a labyrinth and eat heads of people called stephen or steve? | 13:11 |
| sandst1 | alterego: www.meegos.com :P | 13:11 |
| alterego | MeeGo - MeeGos - MeeGon | 13:12 |
| mece | wtf? | 13:12 |
| bash` | gh | 13:12 |
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| khertan | Morning | 13:16 |
| pupnik | huhu | 13:18 |
| alterego | Aloha | 13:19 |
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| ZogG | mece what is tweed suit and you prob don't have it on n900 =) | 13:37 |
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| ZogG | RST38h, http://www.newmoldova.com/node/489 | 13:41 |
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| ZogG | actually anyone who interested it's interesting review of CS championship in club with gentoo on computers without harddrives =) | 13:42 |
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| vanezy | hi there | 13:44 |
| vanezy | I have seen that the kernel used by the n900 is quite old | 13:45 |
| vanezy | is not possible to use the mainline kernel? | 13:45 |
| MohammadAG | MeeGo uses 2.6.37 | 13:45 |
| _nicolai_ | Hi, anyone had time to look at my patch for bug 11933 (Community SSUs hildon-home)? | 13:47 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11933 desktop edit menu can not handle additional desktops (5-9) | 13:47 |
| khertan | Someone know what mean the fast blinking orange led ? | 13:47 |
| vanezy | MohammadAG, so what's the difference between maemo and meeGo? | 13:47 |
| alterego | vanezy: unfortunately not, as a lot of closed components are unupgradeable to new versions ov kernel. | 13:47 |
| khertan | ok ... low battery | 13:47 |
| khertan | didn't charge via usb | 13:47 |
| vanezy | alterego, for instance? | 13:47 |
| MohammadAG | _nicolai_, it'll be in the next update (haven't updated git/bmo yet) | 13:48 |
| alterego | vanezy: sgx, bme, mce, libisi, the list is probably quite long. | 13:48 |
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| alterego | Also sysfs has a habit of changing and screwing other stuff. | 13:48 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, shouldn't you be the one talking about MeeGo? | 13:49 |
| alterego | So I wouldn't be suprised if there was a lot of stuff that needs tweaking both open and closed. | 13:49 |
| _nicolai_ | ah, ty. I wasn't sure if this patch is working.(Don't have much experience with git) | 13:49 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: when necessary :P | 13:49 |
| alterego | Go MeeGo Go! | 13:49 |
| vanezy | alterego, got it.. do you know if MeeGo is better than Maemo? | 13:49 |
| alterego | vanezy: depends what you mean by "better" :P | 13:50 |
| vanezy | alterego, it uses a newer kernel compared to Maemo | 13:50 |
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| alterego | It's not user ready if that's what you mean, but it is technically better and certainly on the leading edge of software versions. | 13:50 |
| vanezy | alterego, ok you're right.. the question then is: what are the advantages of using maemo instead of MeeGo? | 13:50 |
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| alterego | vanezy: everything works? :P | 13:51 |
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| alterego | Currently MeeGo is only good for platform developers and app devs that want to get a headstart. | 13:51 |
| vanezy | alterego, uhm.. not everything because it uses an old kernel | 13:51 |
| alterego | That's MeeGo handset. MeeGo netbook I hear is very good. | 13:52 |
| vanezy | but for example do you know if is possible to use usb-host mode with n900 in MeeGo? | 13:52 |
| alterego | And the new tablet UX looks very cool. | 13:52 |
| vanezy | cool | 13:52 |
| alterego | vanezy: no, it's not possible to use usb host in MeeGo | 13:52 |
| vanezy | ah ok | 13:52 |
| vanezy | that's not good.. do you know why? | 13:52 |
| alterego | And like maemo, you'll need a custom/non-official kernel. | 13:53 |
| vanezy | alterego, got it | 13:53 |
| Jaffa | BTW, what prevents using the MeeGo kernel in Maemo? Presumably closed source connections between modules and/or user-land and the kernel? | 13:53 |
| * alterego is suprised his thumbs don't ache the ammount he types on his N900 | 13:53 | |
| vanezy | :D | 13:54 |
| alterego | I donmt think I've used my laptop in about a week except to watch a dvd .. | 13:54 |
| timeless | Jaffa: i suspect people haven't tried | 13:54 |
| timeless | if the meego kernel supports all of the components which the maemo kernel had to hack in, then in theory it should work | 13:55 |
| vanezy | uhm ok | 13:55 |
| timeless | offhand, i suspect the meego kernel doesn't offer the watermark stuff | 13:55 |
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| Jaffa | timeless: watermark? | 13:55 |
| vanezy | watermark? | 13:55 |
| timeless | but that didn't actually work in maemo5 so not having it might not be a big deal | 13:55 |
| LjL | watermark? | 13:55 |
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| Jaffa | timeless: It seems no-one knows what "the watermark stuff" is ;-) | 13:57 |
| timeless | ... | 13:57 |
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| khertan | hum ... strange battery problem on my n900 | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo | 13:57 |
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| alterego | bbl | 13:58 |
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| timeless | http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla1.9.2/source/xpcom/base/nsMemoryImpl.cpp#137 | 14:00 |
| timeless | for lack of a better reference | 14:00 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, I tried it | 14:00 |
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| MohammadAG | it failed somewhere after loading the kernel | 14:01 |
| MohammadAG | I don't have sources though | 14:01 |
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| timeless | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/search?string=watermark <- slow search | 14:01 |
| timeless | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/glibc-2.5.0/glibc-2.5/sysdeps/unix/bsd/bsd4.4/bits/ioctls.h#139 <- libc bits | 14:02 |
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| timeless | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source/security/lowmem.c#40 <- is /probably/ the right part of the kernel | 14:04 |
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| timeless | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/security/lowmem.c <- is the equivalent bits in fremantle | 14:05 |
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| vanezy | hi there | 14:10 |
| vanezy | I'm watching the debian/patches/series file | 14:10 |
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| vanezy | you (the usb host mode team) have modified it with strings like: | 14:11 |
| vanezy | #usbhostmode.diff | 14:11 |
| vanezy | stuff... | 14:11 |
| vanezy | usbhostmode.diff | 14:11 |
| vanezy | #usbhostmode.diff | 14:11 |
| vanezy | sorry | 14:11 |
| vanezy | bt-mice.diff | 14:11 |
| vanezy | why have you put those #? | 14:11 |
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| KevinB | HI folks | 14:12 |
| KevinB | Would it be masochistic to port meego-touch on maemo? :D | 14:12 |
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| Venemo | KevinB: it is already ported afaik. | 14:14 |
| Venemo | KevinB: should work | 14:14 |
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| KevinB | hooo yep, its demo is widget gallery is that it? | 14:14 |
| Venemo | KevinB: something like that, yes | 14:14 |
| KevinB | so what about creating a full meego-touch UI for maemo | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | vanezy: eh? sorry, please elaborate | 14:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vanezy: and this chan isn't the hostmode-team | 14:15 |
| vanezy | yep you're right | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | some users here in are memers of h-e-n | 14:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | members* | 14:16 |
| vanezy | it's better to go in the other chan then | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | I doubt | 14:16 |
| MohammadAG | I think t-tan kept all patches in there | 14:17 |
| MohammadAG | the old non-working ones, and the working ones by paul | 14:17 |
| MohammadAG | he also kept the egoshin patches | 14:17 |
| MohammadAG | but they're commented out | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah | 14:17 |
| vanezy | anyway I'm trying to patch the kernel manually | 14:17 |
| vanezy | with quilt | 14:17 |
| vanezy | MohammadAG, ah ok | 14:18 |
| vanezy | cool | 14:18 |
| vanezy | the problem is that when I patch it patches just to the nokia-20094803.3+0m5.diff | 14:19 |
| vanezy | that's the first | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I never wrapped my head around how titan is handling that powerkernel stuff, just heard a lot of devels moaning and swearing | 14:19 |
| vanezy | I got Applied patch nokia-20094803.3+0m5.diff | 14:19 |
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| vanezy | I did: export QUILT_PATCHES=/usr/src/kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches | 14:20 |
| vanezy | export QUILT_SERIES=/usr/src/kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches/series | 14:20 |
| vanezy | quilt push | 14:20 |
| vanezy | it should be ok this command to patch all | 14:20 |
| vanezy | shouldn't? | 14:20 |
| vanezy | it? | 14:20 |
| psycho_oreos | quilt push -a | 14:21 |
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| MohammadAG | why don't you just use fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -b btw | 14:21 |
| vanezy | uhm I did it but I got: The topmost patch nokia-20094803.3+0m5.diff needs to be refreshed first. | 14:21 |
| vanezy | I used quilt refresh but it goes in "tilt" | 14:21 |
| vanezy | MohammadAG, because I want to create another patch | 14:22 |
| MohammadAG | then put it in debian/patches :P | 14:22 |
| vanezy | and so I need the last version of the code | 14:22 |
| vanezy | yep but in order to create it I need the code :P | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart titan for not using git | 14:22 |
| * infobot keeps mailing titan free America Online CDs until he drowns for not using git | 14:22 | |
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| vanezy | doing quilt refresh nokia-20094803.3+0m5.diff | 14:27 |
| vanezy | I get: Patch nokia-20094803.3+0m5.diff is not applied | 14:27 |
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| LjL | bah, i really wonder why the OS that came with my N810 seemed to be different from what i reflashed it with. another thing i realized now is that, when i'd disconnect the power, it'd show me a popup saying that i should remember to unplug the charger. now it doesn't. | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 14:31 |
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| LjL | do your devices do that? | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | mine frequently does, even double - with some weird tana-fi-charger-notify nonsense - since I installed some applet I guess | 14:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | drives me mad, I'd consider it a major bugfix when it finally shut up on charger plug removal :-D But that's no answer to your question, sorry | 14:35 |
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| LjL | question: how much CPU power (and therefore electricity) does it consume to show all those warnings? :P | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | little | 14:37 |
| LjL | yeah i know, not enough irony | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, at least I can say I had no major OS update since maybe 2 years on N810, so no idea what's happening if you do that nowadays | 14:39 |
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| LjL | well, the mystery is this: the seller told me that he had flashed the device with the latest version (he gave me the link he used) before shipping it to me. that's the same version that i used, and reflashing it i don't get back the things that i had initially. | 14:40 |
| * DocScrutinizer makes mental note in RED to finally update spare N810 from what it shipped with | 14:40 | |
| LjL | so the only explanation i can think of right now is that i had immediately installed some app that modified the system's behavior, but i can't think which... | 14:40 |
| LjL | or, the seller is lying and he modified stuff :P but he seems like a very careful fellow | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | LjL: maybe he flashed rootfs but not the user settings? but then I don't see ho that shall work out on N810/diablo, with /home on NAND | 14:42 |
| Venemo | LjL: maybe he had something installed. | 14:42 |
| LjL | i don't recall seeing anything special in application manager though | 14:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the funny stuff doesn'T show up in HAM | 14:43 |
| LjL | i don't really complain, as if i want to, i think i can replicate those behaviors... | 14:43 |
| LjL | i'm just puzzled | 14:43 |
| Venemo | LjL: btw, are you happy with your N810? :) | 14:45 |
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| LjL | Venemo: not very, but i'm not entirely unhappy either. as to software availability and ease of use, Android would have seemed a better choice for my sister. i'm not sure about the Archos 5 though, since it's stuck on 1.6 and apparently can't use Flash... but i suspect it'd have been a better choice | 14:46 |
| Venemo | LjL: not necessarily | 14:47 |
| Venemo | LjL: and what does your sister think? | 14:47 |
| LjL | at the same time, the N810 does what i meant it to do - reading ebooks, browsing the web, communicating, and some little games - if not exceptionally well, so i can't say it let me down entirely | 14:47 |
| LjL | Venemo: haven't given it to her yet, her birthday is in march | 14:47 |
| LjL | still got time to tweak it :P | 14:47 |
| Venemo | oh. so you're playing with it for yourself now :P | 14:47 |
| LjL | yes ;) | 14:47 |
| LjL | right now i'm trying to get some sort of wifi geolocation to work on it | 14:48 |
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| LjL | it's certainly a cool device to tinker with, although the motivation for that is scarce now that the OS is abandoned | 14:49 |
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| Mece_ | you know what I really miss on my N900? | 14:49 |
| Venemo | LjL: well you could work on the MeeGo hw adaptation if you want to | 14:49 |
| khertan | pffff battery seems dead | 14:49 |
| khertan | or charger or usb port | 14:49 |
| Mece_ | ctrl-alt-F1 and those. | 14:50 |
| LjL | Venemo: i don't think i'm up to that, i mostly tend to work with just scripts or maybe i can port some programs from the N900 (haven't tried yet), but systems developing is likely out of my reach | 14:50 |
| treebeen | hmm, guys, I've just watched a maemo video and I thought it looks pretty nice. based on debian, wow. nokia probably shouldn't have started the whole meego stuff | 14:50 |
| chem|st | treebeen: tru | 14:51 |
| LjL | and then stopped it ;( | 14:51 |
| LjL | still, Maemo is half closed source, i'd be glad - in theory - they switched to something almost fully open | 14:51 |
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| Mece_ | exactly | 14:52 |
| chem|st | LjL: also tru | 14:52 |
| Mece_ | although I would also prefer debian based. | 14:52 |
| LjL | me too, but *shrug* | 14:52 |
| Mece_ | but doesn't really make that much difference | 14:52 |
| chem|st | who wouldn't? | 14:52 |
| treebeen | i don't understand, they had brought maemo pretty far, then the practically abandon it for meego in a time where they knew they don't have time... | 14:53 |
| chem|st | transforming maemo into debian-mobile or something would be a neat thing | 14:54 |
| Mece_ | i have high hopes for Cordia :) I would actually like to contribute to that. | 14:54 |
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| khertan | treebeen, probably some microsoft agent infiltred in Nokia to kill the project | 14:55 |
| Venemo | Mece_: #cordia | 14:55 |
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| treebeen | khertan: or just some stupid managers... | 14:55 |
| khertan | Someone know what mean a really fast orange led blinking on n900 | 14:56 |
| khertan | and what mean the always power on led with orange color | 14:57 |
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| alterego | khertan: I'm guessing a weird bug from what I've witnessed myself :) | 14:57 |
| khertan | alterego, and which can be resolv how ? | 14:58 |
| khertan | alterego, device didn't charge | 14:58 |
| khertan | didn't boot up | 14:59 |
| alterego | oh, eek :/ | 14:59 |
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| alterego | Hrm, so your N900 is off, and when you try to charge with mains adapter what happens exactly? | 15:02 |
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| khertan | nothing | 15:04 |
| khertan | ok hum ... seems to be the battery | 15:04 |
| khertan | i ve put the battery in an other n900 | 15:04 |
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| khertan | at least it start | 15:04 |
| khertan | but while connected to usb | 15:04 |
| khertan | led is blinking fast in red now | 15:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | I vaguely recall seeing LED blinking red. | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't recall it though. | 15:05 |
| jatt | red? | 15:06 |
| jatt | never seen it red | 15:06 |
| jatt | only yellow and green | 15:06 |
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| bash` | and white :) | 15:07 |
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| khertan | and red | 15:07 |
| MohammadAG | PatternError = blinking red | 15:07 |
| khertan | hum ... now the second battery is charging over usb | 15:07 |
| khertan | hum ... really strange | 15:07 |
| MohammadAG | some critical error occured | 15:07 |
| bash` | does N900 support usb printers? | 15:07 |
| jatt | you can't install cups on it I think? | 15:08 |
| jatt | I think printing is unsupported | 15:08 |
| SpeedEvil | bash`: In principle, yes, with hostmode. | 15:08 |
| jatt | and wireless printers | 15:08 |
| SpeedEvil | bash`: But that's the hardware, not the software. | 15:08 |
| bash` | SpeedEvil: hostmode, what that means? | 15:08 |
| SpeedEvil | The default software does not | 15:08 |
| jatt | are they supported? | 15:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | bash`: The software does not support it, and you would need considerable effort and knowledge to get it working. Though it's in principle possible. | 15:09 |
| MohammadAG | jatt, you can install cups | 15:09 |
| khertan | <MohammadAG> some critical error occured <<< hum ... | 15:10 |
| khertan | MohammadAG, how to know | 15:10 |
| jatt | nice, will try | 15:10 |
| MohammadAG | khertan, no idea, I just know blinking red = error | 15:10 |
| jatt | my wireless printer is an epson and I had to install some proprietary drivers on ubuntu to make it work | 15:10 |
| khertan | MohammadAG, yep error occurs ... no charging :) | 15:10 |
| MohammadAG | PatternError=0;5;0;r;9d8040007f007f0040ff7f007f000000;9d800000 | 15:10 |
| bash` | jatt: I think that even if you install cups, you can print only using 'lp'...none software does not support it as SpeedEvil said | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | And I have a wireless printer too. | 15:12 |
| SpeedEvil | I am currently using it with my n900. | 15:12 |
| jatt | ok, so it will work with lp to print a txt file to a fancy wireless printer? | 15:12 |
| SpeedEvil | (open n900 back cover, get microSD, slide into holder, plug into printer) | 15:12 |
| flux | maybe a future-proof solution would be to set it up to print all emails from a certain mailbox fitting a certain criteria | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, openoffice should print, no? | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 15:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Alas, that is a very, very silly way to print. | 15:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Especially documents, that need converted to jpeg. | 15:13 |
| javispedro | this wp7 panel is funny. half of the answers are "no, we don't support that. yet." | 15:14 |
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| ruskie | lol | 15:14 |
| jatt | multitasking? not supported | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ VB migration job offer | 15:14 |
| bash` | alterego: dd ended, time: real 107m14.271s :S | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | *cough* | 15:14 |
| javispedro | they do not have anything against opengl or webgl seeemingly | 15:15 |
| alterego | bash`: eek, did you do that on device? | 15:15 |
| javispedro | which is a surprise, considering I already saw dx11mobile on the slides =) | 15:15 |
| bash` | alterego: no, on my pc | 15:15 |
| alterego | Crikey, takes mine about 5 minutes :/ | 15:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alterego: told you not to instruct people to dd dev/urandom to their sda!! | 15:16 |
| kerio | you did wht | 15:16 |
| kerio | what | 15:16 |
| bash` | alterego: I passed the option bs=4096 to dd | 15:16 |
| khertan | <javispedro> < they do not have anything against opengl yet ... but is it available ? :) | 15:16 |
| alterego | I'd have expected maybe 15m on a class 2 | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | bash`: muhahaha | 15:16 |
| kerio | oh | 15:16 |
| alterego | bash`: yeah, should be fine. | 15:16 |
| bash` | DocScrutinizer: what? :P | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | 4096k would've been faster | 15:17 |
| javispedro | kerthan: "no, we don't support that yet" ;) | 15:18 |
| Mece_ | lol | 15:18 |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders to declare WP7 a ban'able subject | 15:19 | |
| RobbieThe1st | YES | 15:20 |
| BCMM | heh, like PRs used to be? "anyone know when will nokia release WP7 for the n900?" | 15:21 |
| timeless | hey, asking about pr1.5 is still bannable iirc | 15:21 |
| timeless | infobot: pr1.5? | 15:21 |
| * infobot beats timeless with a Nostradamus papercopy 25.3 times. "That's your PR1.5!" | 15:21 | |
| * DocScrutinizer shakes the banhammer | 15:22 | |
| ruskie | lol | 15:22 |
| psycho_oreos | should be banned in general, afterall nokia abandoned maemo for meego before pretty much ditching most of the support status on meego to focus on microsoft partnership | 15:22 |
| BCMM | timeless: 1.5? what about 1.4? | 15:23 |
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| * Mece_ shakes DocScrutinizer who is shaking the banhammer. | 15:24 | |
| timeless | BCMM: i just got beaten up w/ a papercopy of nostradamus, you ask! | 15:24 |
| Mece_ | still, mocking it is good for morale | 15:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.4 | 15:26 |
| infobot | PR1.4 has always been a ban'able subject | 15:26 |
| BCMM | meh, if i wanted to see linux users complaining about Windows while somebody waves the banhammer unheaded, i'd troll ##linux | 15:26 |
| BCMM | ~pr1.3.3.7 | 15:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.3.3.7 | 15:27 |
| Mece_ | hmm. | 15:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.3.3.7 | 15:27 |
| infobot | well, pr1.3.3.7 is CSSU as leet as MohammadAG | 15:27 |
| BCMM | did the bot just die, or does it not report when it doesn't know stuff? | 15:27 |
| BCMM | oh | 15:27 |
| Mece_ | cssu should change the version in "About Product" | 15:28 |
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| BCMM | CSSU should translate the entire About Product screen to 1337speak | 15:28 |
| * BCMM opens a bug | 15:28 | |
| MohammadAG | Mece_, ovi store shouldn't be checking that version | 15:29 |
| Mece_ | that too. but more importantly it should inform the user that cssu is being used. | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~frondlpfartz | 15:29 |
| MohammadAG | yet, it does | 15:29 |
| Mece_ | ah true. | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo frondlpfartz | 15:29 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: there's no such factoid as frondlpfartz | 15:29 |
| MohammadAG | I still can't figure out strings in C | 15:29 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: what about them? | 15:29 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: i mean, they don't exist of course, but that isn't a problem | 15:30 |
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| MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/hp3mPyYt | 15:31 |
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| LjL | Venemo: N810 is growing on me though, because if you look quite hard, eventually you find that some things you thought weren't available, are. for instance, i wanted a Boggle game, and thought there was only one for the N900... but then, in Garage there is a Diablo .deb, which doesn't work through Application Manager, but installs and works fine with dpkg | 15:31 |
| Venemo | LjL: :) | 15:31 |
| Venemo | LjL: I would bet that you won't want to give it to your sister :P | 15:31 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs at stupid hardware. | 15:32 | |
| SpeedEvil | My radio is bootlooping. | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | It has an internal battery, so I can't easily stop it. | 15:32 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: path is a char pointer, right? | 15:32 |
| jatt | does n900 supports fm radio, to listen to fm broadcasts? | 15:33 |
| LjL | Venemo: oh that's for sure, i definitely want to keep stuff like this... but part of the "present" idea is to part with it :P | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | jatt: yes | 15:33 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: a string in C is an array of characters that ends with the 0 character | 15:33 |
| MohammadAG | char path[1035]; | 15:33 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: were you hoping to get the length of the string from sizeof? | 15:33 |
| jatt | do I need to install an application for it? | 15:33 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: any string function in C will iterate through the array until it finds 0 | 15:33 |
| MohammadAG | BCMM, idk, it was an example :P | 15:33 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: a string is just a character array. a function knows it's finished when it gets to a null char. there is no way to determine it's size other than reading it till you get to a null, or storing the size in a separate int or something | 15:34 |
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| BCMM | MohammadAG: so path is just a char pointer to the start of the character array | 15:35 |
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| BCMM | MohammadAG: i think sizeof() is supposed to be called on a *type*, e.g. sizeof(char) returns 1, since a char occupies one byte | 15:35 |
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| Venemo | BCMM: no, sizeof(something) tells the size of a variable too | 15:36 |
| BCMM | Venemo: oh, ok | 15:36 |
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| Venemo | BCMM: however it doesn't know of dynamic allocations | 15:36 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: nevertheless, that will give you the size of a pointer in memory, not the length of the string | 15:36 |
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| BCMM | it's generally when allocating stuff, so if you want an array of ten integers you can malloc(10*sizeof(int)) so your code doesn't break on a platform where integers are a different size | 15:38 |
| Venemo | BCMM: right | 15:38 |
| BCMM | ^generally used when | 15:38 |
| Venemo | BCMM: also, sizeof() can return the size of an array, but not a dynamically allocated array | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | printf("%s", path); VS printf(path, version); | 15:38 |
| Venemo | brb | 15:38 |
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| BCMM | Venemo: oh, it can return the size of an array? when passed a pointer to the start of it? | 15:39 |
| BCMM | how does that work? | 15:39 |
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| Mece_ | my N900 is super fast today. I wonder what is the cause is | 15:39 |
| Venemo | BCMM: NO, not dynamic arrays | 15:39 |
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| Venemo | BCMM: just static arrays | 15:39 |
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| Venemo | BCMM: eg. int i[5]; | 15:39 |
| BCMM | Venemo: still, how does it do taht? | 15:39 |
| BCMM | oh i see | 15:39 |
| Venemo | BCMM: if you just do int *i = malloc(5*sizeof(int)); then of course it won't return the size of the 'array' | 15:40 |
| BCMM | Venemo: hang on, after doing int i[5]; sizeof(i)==sizeof(int)*5? | 15:40 |
| Venemo | BCMM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sizeof#Using_sizeof_with_arrays | 15:41 |
| BCMM | even though i is just an int pointer to the start of the array? | 15:41 |
| BCMM | also, why don't i have a sizeof man page ffs? | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | int printf(const char *format, ...); The functions in the printf() family produce output according to a format as described below | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | printf(path, version); path = format?? | 15:41 |
| Venemo | BCMM: int* is in fact different from int[] | 15:42 |
| Venemo | BCMM: "When sizeof is applied to an array, the result is the size in bytes of the array in memory." | 15:42 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: hadn't even seen that yet... | 15:42 |
| BCMM | Venemo: ok, looks like i don't know how static arrays work. sorry | 15:43 |
| MohammadAG | holy crap that's a long conversation | 15:43 |
| MohammadAG | was my question answered? :P | 15:43 |
| Venemo | BCMM: as far as the language is concerned, int* is not an array and int[] is not a pointer. although the latter _can_ be implicitly converted to a pointer | 15:43 |
| BCMM | Venemo: i take it that a dynamic array really is just a pointer to the start of the array? | 15:43 |
| MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/2pr0Pyks | 15:43 |
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| Venemo | BCMM: correct. a 'dynamic array', according to the language, is NOT an array. | 15:43 |
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| BCMM | Venemo: ah, ok - i feel a little less clueless now | 15:44 |
| Venemo | BCMM: a dynamic array is just a pointer pointing to some chunk of memory that you have. the language doesn't know its size or anything | 15:44 |
| BCMM | i've had little reason to use static arrays, and assumed they were a special case of dynamic arrays | 15:44 |
| Venemo | BCMM: however the size of a static array is known at compile time, thus the language can know about it | 15:44 |
| BCMM | Venemo: yeah, i was wondering how it wors | 15:45 |
| BCMM | ^"works", but i guess sizeof() is evaluated at compile-time anyway | 15:45 |
| Venemo | BCMM: read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sizeof#Using_sizeof_with_arrays | 15:46 |
| BCMM | Venemo: thanks | 15:46 |
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| Venemo | BCMM: "C99 also allows variable length arrays where the length is specified at runtime [2]. In such cases the sizeof operator is evaluated in part at runtime to determine the storage occupied by the array." | 15:46 |
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| Venemo | anyway, I have to go now | 15:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: line 29,30 look weird to me | 15:54 |
| BCMM | i was thinking that... are you trying to append to or replace "Version: "? | 15:55 |
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| BCMM | the way i read that, it will replace "Version: " with an equal number of characters taken from fp | 15:57 |
| Mece_ | cssu feature request: display status bar (or just clock) in task switcher | 15:58 |
| BCMM | that's a good idea, actually - i find myself switching from a fullscreen app to the desktop just to check the time | 15:59 |
| Mece_ | i hate it when I need to go to desktop or un-fullscreen the browser to find out what time it is. | 15:59 |
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| ZogG | BCMM set everything but need to reinstall funtoo as have only 10 gibs on / and /opt is the same partition =) | 16:01 |
| ZogG | no way to repartition it =) | 16:01 |
| BCMM | not sure i understand - did you install with a funny partition scheme? | 16:01 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: check libqtm-12-[newest] | 16:02 |
| ZogG | i didn't think scratchbox would take more than 5 gibs =) | 16:03 |
| ZogG | and i have only 10 even less on / | 16:03 |
| ZogG | as scratchbox in /opt and i have no separete partition for it it uses / space =) | 16:03 |
| ZogG | anyway i have to go | 16:03 |
| ZogG | talk to you all later =) | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: 19 const char *version = NULL; /* allocates one word for storing pointer*/ 27 version = "Version: "; /* will segfault as version points to addr NULL */ 29 //sizeof(version) isn't doing what you think it is | 16:08 |
| BCMM | ZogG: why not just use on large partition? | 16:08 |
| BCMM | ZogG: also, you could do something nasty with symlinks, just like maemo :) | 16:08 |
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| timeless | DocScrutinizer: err | 16:09 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: surely that will only segfault if you're lucky?... the rest of the time, it'll just do undefined stuff | 16:09 |
| timeless | "Version: " is a pointer to a constant area with value "Version: \0" | 16:09 |
| timeless | so const char * version = NULL; version = "Version: "; is perfectly ok | 16:09 |
| BCMM | oh, he's right | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless: ok, yeah | 16:10 |
| BCMM | timeless: the bit i don't understand is that it's possible to re-assign a const char* | 16:10 |
| BCMM | what does the const do? | 16:10 |
| timeless | sizeof(version) otoh is equivalent to sizeof(const char*) | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | still while (fgets(version, sizeof(version), fp) != NULL) looks fishy | 16:10 |
| timeless | BCMM: consider const char const * const version = NULL; | 16:10 |
| * timeless can't remmeber if you can do that, but... | 16:11 | |
| timeless | roughly [const char] [const *] version = "hello"; | 16:11 |
| timeless | the first const modifies char and says "you can't write on this char" | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | as version is pointing to const area of program text | 16:11 |
| timeless | that's unrelated :) | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | you must not write to it | 16:12 |
| timeless | you can be evil | 16:12 |
| thp | BCMM: there's a trick to "read it backwards" | 16:12 |
| timeless | char * version = (char*)"Version: "; | 16:12 |
| timeless | you will probably crash when you do version[0]='v'; | 16:12 |
| thp | so "const char * version" -> "version is a pointer to a character constant" | 16:12 |
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| thp | whereas "char * const version" -> "version is a constant pointer to a character" | 16:13 |
| flux | there's a rule: "const refers to the object to the left, except unless there is no such thing, then to the object on the right" :) | 16:13 |
| BCMM | i don't understand the "while" at all... | 16:13 |
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| BCMM | surely he just wants to fgets once, with a buffer that is sufficiently large to contain the entire version string? | 16:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | and there's no sense in printf | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | to stdout | 16:15 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: i presumed that was for debugging? | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, maybe | 16:15 |
| BCMM | seems to me like that would run fgets, which returns non-NULL, do the loop contents, then pointlessly run fgets again, which returns NULL | 16:15 |
| BCMM | well, that's what it would do if the buffer was sufficient anyway | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | but the buffer is an address actually ? | 16:16 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: ? | 16:16 |
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| BCMM | am i right in thinking that the objective of lines 29-31 is to put a string like "20.2010.36-2maemo11" in version, then printf it just for debugging? | 16:18 |
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| MohammadAG | achipa, [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/libqtm-12-dev.list | grep QtConnectivity | 16:20 |
| MohammadAG | [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > | 16:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: 35 gtk_text_buffer_insert_at_cursor (buffer, version, -1); | 16:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: I think it's planned to hold "Version: 20.2010.36-2maemo11" - that's overly complex in itself | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | the constant "Version: " should get an own gtk_text_buffer_insert_at_cursor (buffer, cVersionlabel, -1) line | 16:27 |
| timeless | MohammadAG: fwiw, there is an api variant of dpkg, you should consider using it | 16:28 |
| timeless | (using Awk is gross) | 16:28 |
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| timeless | MohammadAG: also, <thanks to:> should really be split from the list of <thankees> which should be read from a file or something | 16:29 |
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| timeless | oh, and don't forget to add _()s :) | 16:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | WTF _()s | 16:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: line 62,65,66,70,71 also look weird | 16:37 |
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| timeless | DocScrutinizer: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=%23define.*gettext®exp=on&find=&findi=\.h%24&filter=_\%28&hitlimit=&tree=fremantle | 16:37 |
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| chem|st | fsck | 16:38 |
| chem|st | where is the lockcode stored? | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | if width less than 800, set width=480 height=500. if width >=800 set width=480 height=360 | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | CAL | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: ^^ | 16:38 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: don't! | 16:39 |
| chem|st | device isn't locked but yet I'd like to recover! | 16:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 | 16:40 |
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| chem|st | crap thing... | 16:46 |
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| chem|st | is there any way to just reset it? | 16:47 |
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| chem|st | I realy should not use phone numbers for lock codes | 16:49 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm | 17:04 |
| MohammadAG | mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~$ john -format:DES -i:digits lockcode | 17:04 |
| MohammadAG | No password hashes loaded | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: factory setting is "12345" (sic!), means the routine checking the entered lockcode to the CAL value has a special procedure for this value that doesn't use the encoding. IF CAL="12345" AND lockcode_entered="12345" THEN unlock() | 17:04 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: hm, it seems it's an upstream thingy, it doesn't mark itself... | 17:04 |
| achipa | as in 'make install' doesn't work | 17:04 |
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| MohammadAG | achipa, compiling libQtConnnectivity on its own worked though | 17:05 |
| MohammadAG | doing a make install in src/connectivity/ does | 17:06 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: yeah, I added that in the update I pushed this afternoon, but the missing include is actually not my fault :) | 17:06 |
| MohammadAG | achipa, I couldn't find it | 17:06 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: find what ? | 17:06 |
| MohammadAG | the headers | 17:06 |
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| MohammadAG | cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/libqtm-12-dev.list | grep QtConnectivity returns no hits | 17:07 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: I know, as said, make install doesn't put them in the right place. | 17:07 |
| MohammadAG | any chance you could fix that? | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | (what did you add in the update?) | 17:09 |
| achipa | the .so (oops) :) | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | I couldn't find the .so too :p | 17:10 |
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| achipa | yeah, but now the autobuilder is complaining, a tic... | 17:10 |
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| achipa | blearh | 17:11 |
| achipa | BT builds for ARM but not for i386 | 17:11 |
| MohammadAG | also, any idea where I can get QtM 1.2 for Ubuntu? | 17:12 |
| achipa | the forum nokia PPA, of course ! | 17:12 |
| MohammadAG | there's a PPA? | 17:12 |
| achipa | yeah, but don't tell anyone, because they might get confused | 17:13 |
| achipa | https://launchpad.net/~forumnokia/+archive/fn-ppa | 17:13 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 17:13 |
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| MohammadAG | achipa, only source packages available? | 17:16 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: what ? | 17:16 |
| OkropNick | what process should I kill to restart calendar application and reminder daemon on N900? | 17:16 |
| MohammadAG | achipa, I can only apt-get source, not install | 17:17 |
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| achipa | MohammadAG: you apt-getting it wrong... it has binaries for lucid and maverick | 17:17 |
| achipa | did you add the ppa line correctly ? | 17:18 |
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| MohammadAG | of course lol | 17:18 |
| ThreeM | hi there | 17:18 |
| ThreeM | is the kernel power from the devel-testing ready to use productive?! | 17:18 |
| MohammadAG | mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/forumnokia-fn-ppa-maverick.list | 17:18 |
| MohammadAG | deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/forumnokia/fn-ppa/ubuntu maverick main | 17:18 |
| MohammadAG | deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/forumnokia/fn-ppa/ubuntu maverick main | 17:18 |
| ThreeM | or is it better to use the stable one?1 | 17:18 |
| MohammadAG | depends | 17:19 |
| MohammadAG | do you want usb hostmode? | 17:19 |
| ThreeM | maybe | 17:19 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: apt-cache policy libqtm-sensors | 17:19 |
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| achipa | what does it say ? | 17:19 |
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| MohammadAG | oh | 17:19 |
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| MohammadAG | you used that naming scheme | 17:20 |
| MohammadAG | Ubuntu repos use the name qt-mobility | 17:20 |
| MohammadAG | Get:1 http://ppa.launchpad.net/forumnokia/fn-ppa/ubuntu/ maverick/main libqtm-connectivity amd64 1:1.2.0~tp-0fn~maverick0 [137kB] | 17:20 |
| MohammadAG | libqtm-connectivity is there | 17:20 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: yeah, no "firmware legacy" in naming there | 17:20 |
| MohammadAG | so it's not an upstream bug achipa :P | 17:20 |
| achipa | no, libqtm-connectivity I fixed :) | 17:21 |
| MohammadAG | ah | 17:21 |
| achipa | the .h-s in the -dev missing are the upstream thingy | 17:21 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 17:21 |
| MohammadAG | they all failed :P | 17:21 |
| MohammadAG | trying to overwrite '/usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/features/mobility.prf', which is also in package qtmobility-dev 1.0.2-2ubuntu0.1 | 17:21 |
| MohammadAG | you should really use Conflicts: :P | 17:22 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: yeah, those were originally lucid packages, which had no mobility anyway | 17:22 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm | 17:26 |
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| MohammadAG | achipa, any ideas on Cannot mix incompatible Qt library (version 0x40700) with this library (version 0x1040700)? | 17:26 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: weird numbers... | 17:27 |
| achipa | (as in the 1 in the second) | 17:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ThreeM: probably PK of devel repo is best | 17:29 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 17:29 |
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| ThreeM | i hope :) | 17:30 |
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| vltR | hello, doeas anybody know what file in nitdroid.com/downloads is the latest one? im downloading popov now | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL, has Mr Flop uttered some new threat? since 60min, shares are going down again | 17:31 |
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| GAN900 | Hehe | 17:35 |
| GAN900 | Everybody else just noticed. | 17:35 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: drop some more and I buy some... | 17:38 |
| ketas | shares are going down, eh? | 17:38 |
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| trx | he probabbly just walked in nokia building and someone saw him | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, had a sharp ditch to BID 6.71, after high at BID 6.83. Now recovered to BID 6.78 | 17:40 |
| hardaker | How do you get a package out of extras testing? | 17:40 |
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| hardaker | I have a, for example, 0.5-1 and publishing 0.6-1 now leaves 2 in testing. | 17:40 |
| hardaker | do I need to add a 0.5-2 and not promote it? | 17:41 |
| hardaker | or is there some other magic? | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ditch happened @ 15:45..16:15 CET, so he probably came out of Nokia building | 17:41 |
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| ThreeM | http://i.imgur.com/S82FY.jpg | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | hardaker: aiui you can't get anything out of testing | 17:43 |
| chem|st | ketas: London ... 6,77 EUR 16.02.2011 | 17:43 |
| chem|st | 16:23:05 -19,09% | 17:43 |
| Appiah | ThreeM: just need a microwave | 17:43 |
| Appiah | then you can live there | 17:43 |
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| ThreeM | hehe | 17:43 |
| hardaker | DocScrutinizer: but that would mean it would grow infinetly with packages that never got certain versions promoted to extras? | 17:43 |
| Appiah | na j/k , canned food will do | 17:43 |
| trx | elop has left the building gentlemen | 17:44 |
| hardaker | Or, more appropriately, I really mean "out of the waiting to be promoted list" not necessarily out of the repo itself. | 17:44 |
| nid0 | you can just thumb a package down yourself | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | even when promoting to extras, the version in extras-testing stays there | 17:44 |
| nid0 | if you're the maintainer, itll drop from testing | 17:44 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: lifeview tells a raise from yesterday | 17:45 |
| hardaker | nid0: Ahh... I didn't try that. I'll give that a go. | 17:45 |
| chem|st | at least in london | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: yep, since yesterday the rating got at ~+2% at max, ~10:30 today | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | now life Realtime L&S Indikation is at -0% | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | +-0 | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | according to intraday rating Flop entered Nokia building 9:15, had lunch out at 11:45, and left at 15:45 CET | 17:49 |
| chem|st | +1.2% london +0.6% NY 5 minutes ago | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.finanzen.net/realtimekurs/Nokia | 17:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BID = ASK = 6.77 LOL - you can trade for free ;-D | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm just waiting for BID > ASK X-P | 17:54 |
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| ketas | gamblers | 17:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ketas: if your bank would offer you to get $1.10 for 1 unit of your currency, and also pay $1 for 1.10 of your currency, what would you do ;-D | 18:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/pay/you pay/ | 18:03 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: ketas: if your bank would offer you to get $1.10 for 1 unit of your currency, and also you pay $1 for 1.10 of your currency, what would you do ;-D | 18:03 |
| BCMM | i wonder if that bot takes regular expressions... | 18:04 |
| BCMM | s/./test/ | 18:04 |
| infobot | BCMM meant: i wonder if that bot takes regular expressionstest.. | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: it doesn't | 18:04 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: that's definitely a good thing. | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/t/TTT/g | 18:05 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: BCMM: iTTT doesn'TTT | 18:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and yeah, ............................ s/./................................./g works, but gets truncated eventually | 18:06 |
| kerio | hmm | 18:09 |
| kerio | s/./......................./ | 18:09 |
| kerio | aw | 18:09 |
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| kerio | s/aw/......................./ | 18:09 |
| infobot | kerio meant: ....................... | 18:09 |
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| kerio | s/......../............................../g | 18:10 |
| kerio | it's not exponential! | 18:10 |
| BCMM | kerio: i doubt it will correct a correction | 18:10 |
| Hoxzer | stop regular expressing yourself! | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | dude! | 18:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/!/!!/ | 18:10 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: dude!! | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/!// | 18:10 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: dude | 18:10 |
| kerio | i see | 18:11 |
| kerio | s/./.........................../g | 18:11 |
| kerio | come on, . is any character | 18:11 |
| kerio | stupid regexps | 18:11 |
| BCMM | kerio: i just tested that... | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | NO regex!! | 18:11 |
| BCMM | it doesn't take regexps | 18:11 |
| BCMM | i even tested by trying to match . | 18:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's probably built around strcmp | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | check ibot source if you want to know the details | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/ /\/ | 18:14 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: check\ibot source if you want to know the details | 18:14 |
| BCMM | i wonder if it likes escape sequences. \n | 18:14 |
| BCMM | s/wonder/\n/ | 18:14 |
| infobot | BCMM meant: i \n if it likes escape sequences. \n | 18:14 |
| BCMM | ah well, nm | 18:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s///g is the most advanced thing you can do with it | 18:15 |
| ketas | s/a/b/ | 18:15 |
| ketas | s/b/a/ | 18:15 |
| ketas | doh | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah I forgot it clears buffers after some 10s | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | and s/ obviously doesn't get buffered | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | if done correctly | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/if/when | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/if/when/ | 18:17 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: s/when/when | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | pun | 18:17 |
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| ketas | punpunpun | 18:18 |
| ketas | s/pun// | 18:18 |
| infobot | ketas meant: punpun | 18:18 |
| ketas | what | 18:18 |
| ketas | s/what// | 18:18 |
| infobot | ketas meant: | 18:18 |
| ketas | yes | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 18:19 |
| ketas | i meant nothing | 18:19 |
| ketas | 18:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer | s//wtf/ | 18:19 |
| ketas | s/ / / | 18:19 |
| infobot | ketas meant: | 18:19 |
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| ketas | DocScrutinizer: that isn't usually as easy as getting 10 cents for free | 18:20 |
| ketas | s/10 cents/.10/ | 18:20 |
| infobot | ketas meant: DocScrutinizer: that isn't usually as easy as getting .10 for free | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | ketas: that's usually very unusual | 18:21 |
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| frals_ | w00t_: you in HEL? | 18:25 |
| w00t_ | yes | 18:25 |
| frals_ | meego meetup! | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | oooh fun | 18:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ¡ | 18:26 |
| ketas | s/hel/hell/ | 18:26 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/16/data_tariffs/ <-- or option 3... users drastically cut back on data usage or even *gasp* cancel data usage all togheter... | 18:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | three is still offering a truly unlimited data tarrif. | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF are you going nuts over there? | 18:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Though only if you buy a phone, you can't get it with a SIM. | 18:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Many providers have slashed their caps. | 18:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Down to 500M in many cases. | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | BLAERGH | 18:28 |
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| ketas | here they just went unlimited | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | I get 500M for €10 and 5G for €25 | 18:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm on 1G/mo - for 4 euro/month. (locked in for 6 months) | 18:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | I just bought an Ipad plan, for 15.99/mo that will get me 10G/mo | 18:29 |
| ruskie | 2g/mo/~12eur | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's still best tariff I ever heard of | 18:29 |
| ruskie | or I could get 20gb/mo for 18eur | 18:29 |
| baryudim | please help install java on n900 | 18:29 |
| SpeedEvil | No, I don't have a Ipad - I'm hoping it'll work on a n900 with duct tape. | 18:29 |
| ketas | unlimited €8 here | 18:29 |
| SpeedEvil | ketas: Where are you? | 18:30 |
| ketas | the speed is limited, however | 18:30 |
| ketas | to 1.5Mbit/s | 18:30 |
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| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 18:30 | |
| ketas | in estonia | 18:30 |
| SpeedEvil | The reason I bought a 15G/mo plan is so that I can get my ISP to fix my DSL line. | 18:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Without worrying about it going down. | 18:30 |
| ketas | most expensive operator around | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | At the moment I'm doing wierd stuff like taking the line down for several hours around midnight, so it does not retrain to low. | 18:31 |
| ketas | what? | 18:31 |
| ketas | didn't understand | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | ketas: Would it be stereotyping to suspect that the number of people with data capable devices in estonia may be rather low? | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: that'S considered contraproductive | 18:32 |
| SpeedEvil | ketas: My DSL like falls over around midnight every day. I'm trying to get my operator to fix it, which may involve some days or weeks of reduced connectivity. | 18:32 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer? | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you should make it train when there's low noise of crosstalking wires, so the others will adjust to lower bandwidth when going online | 18:33 |
| ketas | SpeedEvil: don't know how low | 18:33 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Doesn't work. | 18:34 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: If I train at those times, the modem syncs at 160K, if it syncs at all. | 18:34 |
| ketas | what kind of adsl is that | 18:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's weird | 18:34 |
| ketas | i have adsl2+ | 18:34 |
| ketas | 16/1 | 18:34 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Then my line has a 'maximum stable rate' of 135K, and is limited to that for the next 3 days, even if it's synced to 2500K during the rest of the day | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF?! | 18:35 |
| SpeedEvil | They ratel-limit the packets going into your connection to the maximum stable rate, to avoid congestion on the larst leg. | 18:35 |
| SpeedEvil | This rate-limit is only updated after several days. | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | incredible crap | 18:36 |
| merlin1991 | ISP screws you :D | 18:36 |
| ketas | what's it's official speed | 18:36 |
| SpeedEvil | To add to the fun - the rate limit is not applied by my ISP, but by the organisation they pay for their transit to my ecxchange - so they can't turn it off. | 18:36 |
| nid0 | SpeedEvil: you're in the uk arent you? | 18:36 |
| SpeedEvil | ketas: 'up to 8M' | 18:36 |
| nid0 | if you're on a non-llu connection, you can ask BT to manually increase the limit | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | "up to" - the BS of the decade | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | nid0: That doesn't help. | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | nid0: As I can't actually talk to BT | 18:37 |
| ketas | i can actually get my 16/1 | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | when I buy sth, I don't want "up to", I demand "at least" | 18:37 |
| nid0 | SpeedEvil: run their speed tester, then call them direct and reference it | 18:37 |
| rmrfchik | is there way to read sdhc class directly from card? | 18:37 |
| nid0 | if your ip profile is lower than the current sync speed of the line, they can clear the currently set profile for you | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | nid0: BT (broadband) are seperate now from BT (central), who is seperate from the engineers that go out, who are now OpenREach. | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | nid0: Sure. | 18:38 |
| nid0 | SpeedEvil: i'm fully aware of that. | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | nid0: I need to do this every day, at 1AM. | 18:38 |
| nid0 | regardless of who your ISP is, BT can adjust your ip profile for you | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | nid0: But it gets reset when the line next retrains. | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | nid0: Also - BT central won't talk to end-users. | 18:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | nid0: Most of the time they won't even talk to openreach!!! | 18:39 |
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| nid0 | well, theres your problem, but with the line up BT will remove the profile limit for you without needing to allow the 3 days for it to adjust yourself | 18:39 |
| nid0 | I know this, because I | 18:39 |
| nid0 | had to get them to do it several times for me where i used to live | 18:39 |
| SpeedEvil | They remove the profile limit, and it is then reimposed when the line retrains back down. | 18:39 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not an artificial limit when it's training down - it's getting 3-4dB margin at 160K | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | spam them with calls, so they rethink this idiotic policy | 18:40 |
| nid0 | Well, it's whether you want to persist in calling them to have the profile removed so you can get decent speeds during the day once the line's synced back to a decent speed | 18:41 |
| nid0 | until they get round to fixing it, that is | 18:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | nid0: I've tried - BT wholesale will not talk to end users. | 18:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | nid0: When were you doing this - policies have firmed up in the last couple of years - according to the engineer who was here yesterday. | 18:47 |
| kerio | my adsl2+ modem is at 20476 kbps / 1020 kbps now :D | 18:48 |
| nid0 | SpeedEvil: you need to speak to BT's faults line, as it is (or at least was a year and a half or so ago when i had an almost identical problem to you) considered a fault with the line, which you do have through them, rather than anything to do with the actual net connection service | 18:48 |
| nid0 | I had almost exactly the same problem you're currently having due to a fault at the exchange, at totally random times there'd be a huge burst of noise on the line that would drop the line's profile all the way down to 125k from like 6000, Demon obviously couldnt help but BT just told me after the line resynced at a decent speed to run their speed tester then give them a call, and they'd reset | 18:49 |
| nid0 | the profile for me. it at least gave me proper speeds back until the line next cocked up | 18:49 |
| nid0 | whether or not theyre still willing to do that I wouldnt know, but itd seem strange to utterly refuse to do so when they obviously have the capability and previously would do so when there was a clear problem with intermittent line noise and their profiling | 18:50 |
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| lcuk | which bot does regex fixing? | 18:55 |
| lcuk | s/bot/ircbot | 18:55 |
| RST38h | [lcuk] wanted to say 'which ircbot does regex fixing?' | 18:56 |
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| lcuk | lol | 18:56 |
| nid0 | SpeedEvil: For what it's worth, there's at least a thread on the BT forum from less than 2 weeks ago where a guy managed to get his IP profile manually reset by emailing the board's mods: | 18:56 |
| lcuk | s/lol/laugh out loud/ | 18:56 |
| infobot | lcuk meant: laugh out loud | 18:56 |
| nid0 | http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-in-Home/IP-Profile-is-there-a-procedure-for-getting-it-reset/m-p/111819 | 18:56 |
| lcuk | :D | 18:56 |
| lcuk | ahhahahhhh | 18:56 |
| RST38h | the last slash makes the difference | 18:57 |
| lcuk | yes, I gather now. | 18:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Odd. | 18:57 |
| lcuk | is infbot a supybot? | 19:00 |
| lcuk | infobot | 19:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | nid0: Also - that's BT broadband - which may still have somewhat better access to things than other ISPs, though they are not supposed to. | 19:02 |
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| ketas | kerio: damn you | 19:03 |
| slonopotamus | how i disable scratchbox hijacking of tools (perl)? | 19:03 |
| ketas | kerio: however i would want my upstream to go up | 19:04 |
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| slonopotamus | SCRATCHBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=/usr/bin/perl ? | 19:05 |
| kerio | ketas: and that's because i have a 20/1 | 19:05 |
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| ketas | kerio: in private house i can't get faster now but elsewhere 100/20 is possible, even ftth which i dream about | 19:06 |
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| ketas | maybe they raise downstream in future | 19:07 |
| * ShadowJK is <3 ftth | 19:07 | |
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| ShadowJK | Mostly because of the latency and packet loss (or absence of it) | 19:08 |
| ShadowJK | and 0 jitter | 19:08 |
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| ketas | i want ftth | 19:12 |
| ketas | but not sure when and if | 19:13 |
| ketas | needs overhead line | 19:13 |
| nid0 | I dont seem to be getting ftth or even fttc for a long long time :< | 19:13 |
| * nid0 curses BT | 19:13 | |
| kerio | ftth? | 19:13 |
| kerio | fttc? | 19:13 |
| ketas | fttb | 19:13 |
| ketas | to the brain | 19:13 |
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| ketas | ftth is fiber to the home | 19:13 |
| ketas | c is somewhere near | 19:14 |
| ShadowJK | We started our own company for ftth :P | 19:14 |
| ketas | wtf? | 19:14 |
| ketas | really? | 19:14 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 19:15 |
| ketas | where | 19:15 |
| ShadowJK | .fi | 19:15 |
| ketas | pulling overhead lines? | 19:15 |
| ketas | :) | 19:15 |
| ShadowJK | Well it's a co-op actually, not a full fledged for-profit company | 19:15 |
| ketas | to private houses? | 19:16 |
| ShadowJK | and companies, and government buildings | 19:16 |
| ShadowJK | underground lines | 19:16 |
| ketas | :( | 19:17 |
| ShadowJK | overhead is high maintenance | 19:17 |
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| ketas | overhead fiber, i imagine | 19:17 |
| ShadowJK | overhead anything | 19:17 |
| ketas | well i have phone line overhead | 19:18 |
| ketas | had problems, right, line is over the road | 19:18 |
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| ShadowJK | you need a guy running around with a chainsaw culling trees before they fall over the lines | 19:19 |
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| ketas | power lines are overhead too | 19:19 |
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| ketas | it's fucking expensive to dig them to the ground | 19:19 |
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| ShadowJK | when you stick them underground, it's mostly people with excavators you need to worry about, and even then if you had accurately registered the location of your cable the excavator dude pays up when he breaks it | 19:20 |
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| ketas | sure | 19:20 |
| ketas | still expensive | 19:20 |
| ketas | that's why they are on the air still | 19:20 |
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| ShadowJK | The fibre cable was dug down with this knife-looking thing | 19:21 |
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| ketas | i've seen such devices | 19:21 |
| ketas | interesting | 19:21 |
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| ShadowJK | so it didn't require scooping up ground, putting down cable, closing trench. | 19:22 |
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| ShadowJK | It really all started about 5 years ago when this dude was almost running around door to door asking people to sign their interest in ftth | 19:24 |
| ketas | we have quite rocky soil here | 19:24 |
| ketas | sadly | 19:24 |
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| ShadowJK | there was a guy with a big excavator and a sturdier knife/pole thing running ahead, it pushed up rocks pretty good | 19:25 |
| ketas | i mean there's layer of rock | 19:25 |
| ketas | near the ground | 19:25 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 19:25 |
| ketas | can it cut that? | 19:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Depends how hard it is | 19:25 |
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| ShadowJK | :) | 19:25 |
| SpeedEvil | If it's a layer of loose boulders - perhaps | 19:26 |
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| ketas | it's not loose | 19:26 |
| Proteous | if it's a layer of obsidian you need a diamond pickaxe | 19:27 |
| Proteous | but then you are protected from creapers blowing up your fiber line | 19:27 |
| ShadowJK | it also helped take-up that telcos were showing signs of pulling out, and replacing people's phonelines with stationary gsm tablephones | 19:27 |
| ShadowJK | adsl obviously doesn't work on that :) | 19:27 |
| Proteous | no one here plays minecraft? | 19:27 |
| Sc0rpius | well not me, I don't really understand why minecraft is fun to other people | 19:28 |
| ketas | umm | 19:28 |
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| ketas | like lines replaced with fix gsm? | 19:28 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 19:29 |
| ketas | probably bad lines? | 19:29 |
| ketas | old, crappy | 19:29 |
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| ccooke | Proteous: minecraft will one day become an excellent game, I'm sure. Once they add a game to the rather nice engine :-) | 19:29 |
| ShadowJK | telco fiber ends in a fiber to pots converter outside my house | 19:29 |
| ShadowJK | so not that old | 19:29 |
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| Proteous | ccooke: bah, it's fun now! | 19:29 |
| Shadikka | ccooke: No, now you're talking about Crysis :P | 19:29 |
| ccooke | Shadikka: *laugh* | 19:29 |
| ketas | ShadowJK: why to pull out then? | 19:30 |
| ccooke | Proteous: a lot of people seem to think that. Right now, I start it up every few weeks to see what's changed and if they added a reason to play it yet. | 19:30 |
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| ccooke | Proteous: I mess around for a couple of hours, then decide I can wait. | 19:30 |
| Proteous | ccooke: it's like a big set of lego to me | 19:30 |
| ShadowJK | their overhead lines too costly to maintain they claim | 19:30 |
| ccooke | Proteous: The problem with it is it's like a big set of level with *grinding*. And I don't see why I should waste my precious time with grinding :-) | 19:31 |
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| ccooke | Proteous: when they've actually added a reason for you to build stuff - trade, better monsters, whatever - then it will be fun for me to play. | 19:32 |
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| ccooke | as it is now, I'll play it for a few hours, enjoy the pretty, then conclude that I really should take up 3d modelling again. Then procrastinate about that and go back to playing Dwarf Fortress :-) | 19:32 |
| Proteous | DF... | 19:32 |
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| ccooke | (and hey, I can play dwarf fortress on the n900, now) | 19:33 |
| Proteous | heh\ | 19:33 |
| ShadowJK | ketas, besides, I think it's near universal telco policy to do whatever you can to piss off users :-) | 19:33 |
| ccooke | Well, sort of. Via ssh to my server, I can | 19:33 |
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| ccooke | (and technically I'm not using an n900 atm, but that's not the point; I'd *prefer* to be, after all :-) | 19:34 |
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| lcuk | ccooke, \oare you still hiding away in the bowels of python code? | 19:35 |
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| ccooke | lcuk: Nope. Ended up doing huge amounts of ruby for a while with some horrendous hours | 19:36 |
| ketas | ShadowJK: why should they want to piss off users? users can walk away | 19:36 |
| ccooke | lcuk: then work decided to royally fuck with me, so I made it clear I wasn't going to do any of that any more. | 19:37 |
| ShadowJK | old telcos think users have no choice :) | 19:37 |
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| ccooke | lcuk: right now I'm beating my head against a horrifically broken server farm and *much* more relaxed | 19:37 |
| ccooke | lcuk: how about you? | 19:37 |
| lcuk | bashing head against daily meego images, trying to make it usable | 19:38 |
| ccooke | Nice. I still haven't had time to try meego at all. | 19:38 |
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| ketas | ShadowJK: well here i indeed have only one telco providing me adsl | 19:39 |
| rm_work | lcuk: lol, well good luck with that | 19:39 |
| rm_work | would love to see a meego image eventually that is usable day to day | 19:39 |
| ketas | ShadowJK: but it doesn't screw me | 19:39 |
| ccooke | I hope it stabilises to the point of getting some decent devices out this year, though | 19:39 |
| lcuk | rm_work, I pick it up and use it every day now | 19:39 |
| ccooke | lcuk: there are at least a tablet or two expected out this year, IIRC? | 19:39 |
| rm_work | lcuk: i heard you can't receive calls unless you have the phone app open? lol | 19:39 |
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| lcuk | ccooke, I have a meego tablet (lenovo ideapad) | 19:40 |
| rm_work | or, do you mean on the tablet thing they gave out in ireland? or something else entirely | 19:40 |
| rm_work | ah | 19:40 |
| rm_work | yeah, the tablet thing | 19:40 |
| lcuk | it runs handset nicely :) looks a bit odd holding a 10" slate to ear though | 19:40 |
| rm_work | lol | 19:40 |
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| ketas | ShadowJK: i pay ~31 € for iptv, adsl and phone | 19:41 |
| ccooke | lcuk: *grin* | 19:41 |
| lcuk | rm_work, the N900 adaption is catching up at a tremendous rate - speed increases and kernel adaption is solidifying | 19:41 |
| ShadowJK | cheaper than my stuffs then : | 19:41 |
| lcuk | and stskeeps mentioned today that once the harpfp builds come through the cooker we should see even more speed bumps | 19:42 |
| ccooke | lcuk: how is it compared to maemo? | 19:42 |
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| ccooke | (now) | 19:42 |
| lcuk | ccooke, how is what? | 19:42 |
| lcuk | or rather, which parts do you seek comparison of | 19:43 |
| ketas | ShadowJK: a vod too | 19:43 |
| lcuk | I miss user apps | 19:43 |
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| rm_work | yeah :/ | 19:43 |
| rm_work | but looking forward to alien dalvik? | 19:43 |
| rm_work | or is that not going to be available except through OEM? | 19:43 |
| ShadowJK | I need more ethernet cable to hook up iptv :( | 19:43 |
| lcuk | I saw vasvlad ported omweather though which made me smile | 19:43 |
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| ketas | i don | 19:44 |
| ccooke | lcuk: hmm. How responsive are the UI and basic apps? | 19:44 |
| ketas | ShadowJK: i don't use it either, now | 19:44 |
| ccooke | lcuk: that's really the speed that *matters* to a phone: How long you have to wait to make a phone call or read an SMS | 19:44 |
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| ketas | ShadowJK: it's having 100 channels now iirc | 19:44 |
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| ccooke | (it's one of the ways that maemo on the n900 is *still* better than most of the Android phones I've tried, for instance :-/ | 19:45 |
| lcuk | ccooke, I have not tried my sim in it. Others are obviously working at that | 19:45 |
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| ketas | ccooke: it's faster? | 19:46 |
| ketas | i want n900 too | 19:46 |
| ketas | quite expensive thing | 19:46 |
| ccooke | ketas: about the same speed to get to the phone apps. the n900 has a slightly simpler dialer which is a touch easier to use. During calls, the n900 is more predictable (not locking at the wrong moment) | 19:47 |
| ccooke | also, the n900 has much better phone hardware than my current HTC Desire Z. Much better speakers, better microphone... | 19:48 |
| ketas | hahaha, because that | 19:48 |
| ketas | 's nokia | 19:48 |
| ketas | sad if nokia hw goes away | 19:48 |
| ShadowJK | N810 speakers are much better than N900 :( | 19:49 |
| ketas | :( | 19:49 |
| ketas | my gf got old n770 for free | 19:49 |
| Proteous | a non wsod version? | 19:50 |
| ketas | under the battery, it says it's made in estonia, you don't see that this days | 19:50 |
| ShadowJK | My N810 says made in Finland :) | 19:50 |
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| ccooke | ShadowJK: really? I felt they're about par | 19:52 |
| ketas | Proteous: what you mean? | 19:52 |
| ketas | right | 19:52 |
| Proteous | white screen of death | 19:53 |
| Proteous | happens to a large percent of n770s after a while | 19:53 |
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| ccooke | (the n900 is the best phone I've had in years. It annoys me that I don't currently use one; yes, there are things Android does better, but...) | 19:53 |
| ketas | still working i guess | 19:53 |
| Proteous | I guess if it's still working then it must have super secrit wsod protection :) | 19:53 |
| ketas | why you don't use n900? | 19:54 |
| ketas | now | 19:54 |
| Proteous | it doesn't fit in the packet of his new slim fitting trousers | 19:54 |
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| Proteous | s/packet/pocket/ | 19:54 |
| infobot | Proteous meant: it doesn't fit in the pocket of his new slim fitting trousers | 19:54 |
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| newbie007 | I think maemo is light years ahead of android,, instead of a repository android has a "market place" perhaps I can purchase a terminal app | 19:56 |
| ketas | packet doesn't fit into pocket | 19:56 |
| Proteous | sneakernet FTW | 19:56 |
| ketas | n900 is quite a brick actually, yes | 19:56 |
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| ketas | i have 5800 currently | 19:56 |
| ccooke | newbie007: yes and no. Android is *much* more polished, and it has a better app community. Part of that is that it supports paid apps, sure. | 19:57 |
| * ketas polishes ccooke | 19:57 | |
| ccooke | There are apps on Android I wish I'd had on the n900... although conversely, some of the n900 apps are better than anything I've found on Android | 19:57 |
| ketas | what apps were on android? | 19:57 |
| newbie007 | angry birds | 19:58 |
| ketas | done for n900 | 19:58 |
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| newbie007 | I want gnumeric, awesome ti, nes etc... | 19:58 |
| ShadowJK | gpodder | 19:58 |
| dneary | How's google docs on Android? | 19:58 |
| newbie007 | really what I want is to put Maemo on my Nook (e-book reader) I do not have/want an android phone | 19:59 |
| dneary | Sucked last time I tried it | 19:59 |
| dneary | But that was a while ago | 19:59 |
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| ccooke | ketas: Stuff I use a lot that doesn't really exist on the n900: The kindle app (although I'll probably grab a kindle device evntually), some decent (offline) google reader apps, more seamless Dropbox support, various tools that help me GM D&D. | 20:00 |
| ccooke | Stuff for playing and recording Go. | 20:00 |
| ccooke | There's also a whole class of locational things that work better if you have a magnetometer | 20:00 |
| ccooke | Things I seriously miss from the n900... The absolute best sleep-cycle tracker alarm clock I've used. Better terminal (goes with the better keyboard!), I generally preferred the browsing experience (although the new android phone is faster, so handles flash better) | 20:02 |
| ccooke | the seamlessness of network transitions on the n900 was *very* good | 20:02 |
| ccooke | (oh, and: I never found a twitter app I really liked on the n900, although there were plenty of apps and that's more than likely just me) | 20:03 |
| newbie007 | you guys are using maemo in past tense,, is maemo dead ? | 20:03 |
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| ccooke | newbie007: I'm using it in the past tense because I don't currently have a usable maemo phone | 20:04 |
| newbie007 | did you brick it? | 20:04 |
| Proteous | ... | 20:04 |
| ketas | maybe hourse ate it | 20:04 |
| Proteous | didn't you read, his pants are too tight to pocket it | 20:05 |
| Proteous | pants, trousers whatever | 20:05 |
| ccooke | nope. usb connector. For the third time. Actually, my *wife's* usb connector. I had a phone upgrade due, so grabbed an android phone to see if it's improved a bit. | 20:05 |
| ccooke | and let my wife steal my n900 | 20:05 |
| ketas | your wife has usb connector? | 20:05 |
| Proteous | doesn't yours? | 20:05 |
| Proteous | if not you should return her to the factory | 20:06 |
| ccooke | ketas: several. | 20:06 |
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| ketas | umm what you mean usb connector, did it broke? | 20:06 |
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| Proteous | happens, some people like to swing them around by the cable | 20:06 |
| ketas | hahaha | 20:06 |
| ccooke | ketas: the n900 has a known weakness in its usb connector. It's fine if you are careful, but a bit of bad luck or careless use... | 20:07 |
| ccooke | basically, the only thing hlding the connector on is solder. | 20:07 |
| ketas | bad bad bad | 20:07 |
| Proteous | they have changed the design | 20:07 |
| ketas | is it possible to fix? | 20:07 |
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| Proteous | but early phones had the weak connector | 20:07 |
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| ketas | so new n900 probably doesn't have this weakness? | 20:08 |
| Proteous | ketas: open it up and add some hot glue? | 20:08 |
| ketas | if i buy it now | 20:08 |
| Proteous | yeah | 20:08 |
| ketas | no i mean if it does broke | 20:08 |
| Proteous | oh | 20:08 |
| Proteous | depends on how good you are at surface mount soldering | 20:08 |
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| ccooke | Proteous: I didn't hear they'd changed the design. | 20:08 |
| ketas | does it break pcb traces? | 20:08 |
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| ccooke | Proteous: that's good to know | 20:08 |
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| ccooke | ketas: they can be repaired. | 20:08 |
| ccooke | I'm just too busy to get around to it :-/ | 20:09 |
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| piggz | Proteous: presumably, when mine got a new main board, it should have the new design connector? | 20:10 |
| Proteous | I would assume so | 20:10 |
| ketas | piggz: how come you got new main board? | 20:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Proteous: changed design? citation needed! | 20:12 |
| Proteous | yeah, I'm looking for one :) | 20:12 |
| Proteous | I remember seeing it! | 20:12 |
| Proteous | been a while though | 20:12 |
| piggz | ketas: it was always crashing...not a s/w issue, maybe a faulty mem chip or something | 20:12 |
| piggz | thanfully, since i got it back it hasnt crashed once | 20:13 |
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| piggz | even with all the buggy cssu goodness ;) | 20:13 |
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| ccooke | Today, I have learned something interesting: http://wojtek-soldierbear.weebly.com/ | 20:13 |
| ccooke | (Bah, this is the wrong channel for that. But hell, it's interesting anyway) | 20:14 |
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| Jaffa | piggz: Oh, what bugs? Reported and logged under http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs ? | 20:17 |
| piggz | Jaffa: i was joking...i havnt found anything, its awesome! ;) | 20:17 |
| piggz | cant wait for that fast rotation if possible | 20:18 |
| * Jaffa 's looking forward to that. Was thinking of trying to implement it when thp popped up with his PoC | 20:19 | |
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| * GAN900 still hasn't upgraded back to PR1.3. | 20:23 | |
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| * ZogG snorts ccooke | 20:29 | |
| Sc0rpius | how much did you pay for it | 20:29 |
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| ccooke | ZogG: hmm? | 20:32 |
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| javispedro | Jaffa, piggz: anywhere I could read about this fast rotation PoC? | 20:34 |
| piggz | javispedro: youtube | 20:35 |
| piggz | not sure about any patches floating around | 20:35 |
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| * javispedro tried once, removed the animation but I didn't saw much improvement... | 20:36 | |
| ZogG | ccooke, http://www.nerdnirvana.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/so-much-cocaine.jpg | 20:37 |
| tripz0 | lol | 20:38 |
| ZogG | webos is niiicie | 20:38 |
| ccooke | ZogG: *laugh* | 20:39 |
| Sc0rpius | hehe | 20:39 |
| ccooke | ZogG: I keep meaning to try webos. What's it like? | 20:39 |
| Sc0rpius | I guess ccooke is not from Coke. I once met a guy named Anthony Cooke | 20:39 |
| Sc0rpius | so that must be his last name | 20:39 |
| Sc0rpius | I meant "coke" | 20:39 |
| jacekowski | javispedro: fast rotation isn't going to happen because of slow interface to lcd | 20:39 |
| Sc0rpius | the drug, not the drink | 20:40 |
| Venemo_N900 | jacekowski: you know this for a fact? | 20:41 |
| Sc0rpius | I was wondering the same | 20:41 |
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| jacekowski | Venemo_N900: i know for a fact that you can only push so much data trough interface | 20:42 |
| jacekowski | Venemo_N900: so if you can come up with nice idea of making it look good with lower bandwidth | 20:43 |
| jacekowski | that would be nice | 20:43 |
| ZogG | ccooke haven't tried saw video review | 20:45 |
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| ZogG | Sc0rpius actually the name of drink has same roots as drug | 20:46 |
| ZogG | and once there was little bit coke in coke | 20:46 |
| Sc0rpius | hmm | 20:46 |
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| ZogG | Sc0rpius, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola#Coca_.E2.80.94_cocaine | 20:47 |
| Sc0rpius | let's see | 20:48 |
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| sgev | hi | 21:39 |
| sgev | anyone using jmirc on nokia | 21:39 |
| sgev | how do you identify to a nick | 21:39 |
| sgev | or can anyone suggest a nice irc client thats secure enough for nokia | 21:40 |
| SpeedEvil | xchat works well for me | 21:40 |
| sgev | does it support identifying to a nick ? | 21:41 |
| mece | sgev yes | 21:41 |
| sgev | also is it possible to use encryption or something | 21:41 |
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| slonopotamus | sgev: /msg nickserv id <nick> <password> | 21:42 |
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| slonopotamus | all the rest are just wrappers aroung this | 21:43 |
| Sc0rpius | actually /nickserv works | 21:43 |
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| Sc0rpius | and i prefer using that, maybe one day NickServ/ChanServ is down and some smartass gets the nick and the passwords people send him | 21:43 |
| sgev | slonopotamus: for jmirc or xchat | 21:43 |
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| slonopotamus | sgev: for ANY irc client | 21:44 |
| slonopotamus | sgev: just send private message to nickserv with that text | 21:44 |
| Sc0rpius | maybe he wants an IRC client that has automation for nick identification (a script) | 21:44 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: and what do you think /nickserv does? | 21:45 |
| sgev | ah ok | 21:45 |
| Sc0rpius | /nickserv is not a PRIVMSG | 21:45 |
| sgev | thanks | 21:45 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: and what do you think /nickserv is? | 21:45 |
| Sc0rpius | it's equivalent to a QUOTE NICKSERV | 21:45 |
| Sc0rpius | it's different | 21:45 |
| Sc0rpius | I mean it's equivalent for end users | 21:45 |
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| Sc0rpius | but if someday some guy makes /nick NickServ | 21:45 |
| Sc0rpius | because NickServ is down | 21:45 |
| Sc0rpius | he won't get passwords sent via /nickserv | 21:46 |
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| Sc0rpius | type: /quote nickserv help | 21:46 |
| Sc0rpius | that will send a NICKSERV HELP | 21:46 |
| Sc0rpius | if you type: /msg nickserv help | 21:46 |
| Sc0rpius | that will send a PRIVMSG NICKSERV HELP | 21:46 |
| Sc0rpius | I'm just paranoid, /msg nickserv, no way. | 21:47 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: and why you think that Alice won't get your /quote if she changes nick to nickserv? | 21:47 |
| Sc0rpius | because it's not a PRIVMSG | 21:47 |
| sgev | hanks | 21:48 |
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| Sc0rpius | because I think in the implementation of the daemon, and actually I'm almost sure, the communication between the daemon and the nickserv service through NICKSERV raw messages are direct | 21:48 |
| ruskie | or you could just sent the password as login password to the server ;) | 21:48 |
| Sc0rpius | you know how many people | 21:48 |
| Sc0rpius | gets the nick nicksrv waiting for you to typo? | 21:48 |
| ruskie | thus avoiding all of this ;) | 21:48 |
| Sc0rpius | or nckserv | 21:48 |
| jacekowski | Sc0rpius: on freenode /msg nickserv is as safe as /quote nickserv | 21:49 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah but /msg nicksrv is not | 21:49 |
| Sc0rpius | and /nicksrv gets a nice error | 21:49 |
| ruskie | or just send the pass at connection ;) | 21:49 |
| jacekowski | don't make a mistakes | 21:49 |
| ruskie | server pass++ | 21:49 |
| jacekowski | what stops you from making mistake like adding space in front of command | 21:49 |
| jacekowski | so you end up wit | 21:49 |
| jacekowski | /quote nickserv identify password | 21:50 |
| jacekowski | and everybody sees it | 21:50 |
| ruskie | or use a script or some other method of automating it... | 21:50 |
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| Sc0rpius | well I still prefer /nickserv, it's faster, less keys to press | 21:51 |
| ruskie | try /ns ;) | 21:51 |
| ruskie | same thing ;) | 21:52 |
| ruskie | just shorter | 21:52 |
| Sc0rpius | and it's more secure since it's a direct to NickServ@services.server | 21:52 |
| Sc0rpius | :) | 21:52 |
| Sc0rpius | well yeah | 21:52 |
| ruskie | well nickserv.pl works as well | 21:52 |
| Sc0rpius | I learned something /ns | 21:52 |
| Sc0rpius | thanks | 21:52 |
| Sc0rpius | no more /nickserv for me! | 21:52 |
| Sc0rpius | :) | 21:52 |
| ruskie | and as said... sending pass as server password at connecting... works as well ;) | 21:52 |
| Sc0rpius | really? | 21:53 |
| Sc0rpius | lemme try that | 21:53 |
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| Sc0rpius | nah that didn't work | 21:54 |
| ruskie | worked for me so far | 21:54 |
| Sc0rpius | I had to identify manually | 21:54 |
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| Sc0rpius | but I'm happy with /ns now | 21:55 |
| ruskie | http://blog.freenode.net/2005/08/ | 21:55 |
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| ruskie | see that blog post | 21:55 |
| Arkenoi | quite strange, i've got email with vcal invitation, and modest does not show it at all. no attachment, no indication there is something besides text. that sucks! | 21:55 |
| ruskie | As a convenience to our users, you can now identify to NickServ as you connect to the network. Just connect with your registered nickname and specify your NickServ password as a server password. We hope this will make identifying to NickServ easier | 21:56 |
| ruskie | maybe you're not passing the pw correctly or something? | 21:57 |
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| ruskie | with irssi I know it's /connect server port pass | 21:57 |
| Sc0rpius | I do, but I'm using chat.freenode.net as server | 21:57 |
| ruskie | shouldn't matter | 21:57 |
| Sc0rpius | maybe I have to specify a real server | 21:57 |
| Sc0rpius | lemme try again | 21:57 |
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| Sc0rpius | I think it works I just think it doesn't work | 21:59 |
| Sc0rpius | » Logged in as: Sc0rpius | 21:59 |
| Sc0rpius | it seems it works | 21:59 |
| ruskie | hehe | 21:59 |
| Sc0rpius | no I have to disable my script | 21:59 |
| Sc0rpius | ok let's see now | 21:59 |
| Sc0rpius | I'll get banned with server hammering | 22:00 |
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| Sc0rpius | nope, I'm not logged in | 22:00 |
| Sc0rpius | doesn't work for me | 22:00 |
| ruskie | hmm | 22:00 |
| ruskie | interesting... | 22:00 |
| Sc0rpius | identifying manually | 22:00 |
| ruskie | might try to bug the fine folk in #freenode ;) | 22:00 |
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| Sc0rpius | it's ok, I have a script anyway that does it for me | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | user:password | 22:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | iirc | 22:02 |
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| Sc0rpius | ohhh | 22:02 |
| Sc0rpius | that changes everything | 22:02 |
| ruskie | I thought that was only for tor | 22:02 |
| Sc0rpius | I should send that as server password? | 22:02 |
| ruskie | try it | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 22:02 |
| Sc0rpius | I'll try later, I think I'm getting banned in any moment now | 22:02 |
| ruskie | lol | 22:02 |
| ruskie | doubtful | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 22:02 |
| slonopotamus | does https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/ EVER get cleaned? | 22:03 |
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| pupnik_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v2xnl6LwJE Bad. Ass. Optical Illusion. | 22:03 |
| ruskie | slonopotamus, hmm well nothing from 2009 there... | 22:04 |
| ruskie | so I'm assuming it does... | 22:04 |
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| slonopotamus | ruskie: but lots from summer 2010 | 22:06 |
| pupnik_ | worth a download | 22:07 |
| Sc0rpius | that's the Escher's Waterfall | 22:08 |
| Sc0rpius | if you see it from the side, you'll see why it works | 22:08 |
| Sc0rpius | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Escher_Waterfall.jpg | 22:09 |
| Sc0rpius | this is the original picture, but if you see the structure from the side, it's actually downhill | 22:09 |
| pupnik_ | yes i know | 22:09 |
| pupnik_ | now build it and make the water fall from 'top' to bottom | 22:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway for xchat: http://toxin.jottit.com/xchat_connect#11 | 22:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe also of interest: http://toxin.jottit.com/freenode_nickserv_commands | 22:12 |
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| Sc0rpius | haha the water is not coming from the "bottom" | 22:13 |
| Sc0rpius | it just looks that way | 22:13 |
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| pupnik_ | Sc0rpius: can you explain it? | 22:15 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, ping | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's to explain with it? it's a 2d representation that doesn't make sense when you try to extrapolate it into 3d with usual rules | 22:28 |
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| Sc0rpius | well if you try to visualize it without the vertical posts (or delete them somehow) you can see the real structure | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | emphasis on *usual* | 22:29 |
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| Sc0rpius | the damn vertical posts look connected from that angle and your brain deceives you | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | there is no real structure | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a 2D painting | 22:29 |
| Sc0rpius | you saw the video? | 22:29 |
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| Sc0rpius | he wants us to explain the video | 22:30 |
| pupnik_ | Sc0rpius: you only think you understand it | 22:30 |
| pupnik_ | that's because you understand so little | 22:30 |
| pupnik_ | DocScrutinizer: so the water is computer animation? | 22:31 |
| pupnik_ | i understand how the structure can be flat on the floor | 22:31 |
| pupnik_ | with a mild incline for the water | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, sorry. No idea what you're talking bout | 22:32 |
| Sc0rpius | DocScrutinizer hasn't watched the video | 22:32 |
| pupnik_ | but the 'falling' bit makes no sense | 22:32 |
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| slonopotamus | meh | 22:40 |
| slonopotamus | i hate scratchbox | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, watch the shadows at 0:32 | 22:41 |
| slonopotamus | i hate those who decided to use scratchbox for maemo | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | SB is an abomination | 22:41 |
| jaska | just compiling inside a full system qemu would probably suck less | 22:43 |
| Sc0rpius | Scratchbox is not bad, but I hate it can't emulate armel bins using qemu | 22:43 |
| jaska | (so many packages suck goats at crosscompiling) | 22:43 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: it isn't bad, it is EXTREMELY bad | 22:43 |
| Sc0rpius | I have never had a problem with scratchbox, but changing from x86 to armel is tedious | 22:44 |
| Sc0rpius | while I stay in x86, it works as expected | 22:44 |
| slonopotamus | if you didn't have problems with scratchbox, you just didn't use it. | 22:44 |
| Sc0rpius | hah | 22:44 |
| Sc0rpius | I use it everyday, fixing the bugs you guys report | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | first problem I had prior to even initially starting that shit | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | it raped my HDD space | 22:45 |
| Sc0rpius | I have it locked in a VMPlayer and I think my virtual HDD is no more than 20 GB | 22:45 |
| MohammadAG | SB > Madde | 22:45 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: how the hell i'm supposed to build perl package usable on n900 without hitting that 5.8.4/5.8.3 crap? | 22:46 |
| MohammadAG | also, is it me, or was debhelper updated to version 7 | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | oooh no more that 20GB --- seriously? o.O Isn't that outright marvelous | 22:46 |
| slonopotamus | (the one who decided to use different versions of packages on device and on buildbot deserves separate punishment) | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | my whole fscking root is less than 20GB | 22:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I even have boxes that have <20GB storage *total* | 22:48 |
| MohammadAG | how do you live with 20GBs? :o | 22:48 |
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| Sc0rpius | you want to build perl? | 22:48 |
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| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: i want to build git | 22:48 |
| Sc0rpius | because scratchbox lets you choose which version of perl you want to use | 22:48 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: and through a chain of several tens of deps that ends up in libdbi-perl | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | how do I live with 20GB? Ruthless filtering, baby | 22:49 |
| slonopotamus | i want to use _none_ of scratchbox tools | 22:49 |
| * MohammadAG got mindraped with Qt | 22:50 | |
| Sc0rpius | did you read /scratchbox/doc/perl.txt ? | 22:50 |
| Sc0rpius | you didn't, did you | 22:50 |
| slonopotamus | where the hell i'm supposed to get that? | 22:50 |
| slonopotamus | don't you think i have scratchbox locally? | 22:50 |
| MohammadAG | it exists here | 22:51 |
| Sc0rpius | where the hell? in /scratchbox/doc/perl.txt | 22:51 |
| Sc0rpius | [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: /scratchbox/doc] > vi perl.txt | 22:51 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: i don't have /scratchbox. builder has. | 22:51 |
| Sc0rpius | ok first questionÑ: | 22:52 |
| Sc0rpius | did YOU install the Maemo SDK? | 22:52 |
| slonopotamus | of course no | 22:52 |
| slonopotamus | it doesn't have installable for n900. | 22:52 |
| Sc0rpius | you don't develop in the N900 | 22:53 |
| Sc0rpius | you develop in your PC | 22:53 |
| slonopotamus | i do | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | see, It's simple absurd you need 20GB to build a (set of) binary that fits into 100MB | 22:53 |
| slonopotamus | sadly, my n900 didn't come bundled with a development PC | 22:53 |
| Sc0rpius | don't you have a PC? | 22:53 |
| slonopotamus | irrelevant | 22:53 |
| slonopotamus | i do develop on my n900 | 22:54 |
| Sc0rpius | well good luck with that | 22:54 |
| Sc0rpius | now what you exactly want to do? | 22:54 |
| slonopotamus | and everything works here. it's maemo builder who has troubles because it has scratchbox. | 22:54 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: i want to build libdbi-perl on builder and after that install it on my n900 | 22:55 |
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| Sc0rpius | it's for the community or only for you? | 22:55 |
| Sc0rpius | because if you are using builder just because you want a .deb you don't need it | 22:55 |
| slonopotamus | however, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/libdbi-perl/1.605-1maemo1/ | 22:55 |
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| slonopotamus | maemo builder pulls perl-5.8.4 from somewhere | 22:56 |
| slonopotamus | according to google, it comes from scratchbox | 22:56 |
| slonopotamus | but n900 only has 5.8.3 | 22:56 |
| slonopotamus | so, maemo builder is broken because it builds for something different than the _only_ maemo5 device - n900 | 22:57 |
| slonopotamus | does it make sense? | 22:57 |
| Sc0rpius | that "depends" line is in devian/control file, is not something builder should be putting there | 22:57 |
| Sc0rpius | debian/control | 22:58 |
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| Sc0rpius | I'd have to see that line in the debian/control file of your package | 22:59 |
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| Sc0rpius | the Depends: and Build-depends: lines | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: funny | 23:00 |
| Sc0rpius | I just found out that my VMWare with Ubuntu + Maemo SDK | 23:01 |
| Sc0rpius | it's just 9 GB | 23:01 |
| Sc0rpius | 9.15 GB to be exact | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui builder should try to use lowest version of libs always. That's how they try to keep pkgs compatible with older PR versions | 23:01 |
| Sc0rpius | indeed. | 23:02 |
| Sc0rpius | I think he's porting the libdbi-perl from another OS | 23:02 |
| Sc0rpius | and that's why he's getting weird dependences | 23:02 |
| Sc0rpius | but package perl-base for Maemo is different and includes more things, and I think, (almost sure), includes perlapi | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess builder is built from perl ;-P | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | and gets mental about what's "userspace" and what's its own 'brain' | 23:03 |
| Sc0rpius | and I REALLY SUGGEST you use Maemo SDK. If you are a smart guy using W7, just download VMWare Player like smart guys do, install an Ubuntu environment, and install Maemo SDK tehre | 23:03 |
| Sc0rpius | you don't have to give up your precious Windows 7 workstation for a nasty Linux environment | 23:04 |
| * Sc0rpius waits the haters wave gonna hate | 23:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: all OK at your site? o.O | 23:04 |
| Sc0rpius | hehehe | 23:05 |
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| slonopotamus | ... | 23:05 |
| Sc0rpius | actually look this setup | 23:05 |
| Sc0rpius | this is a Corei5 quad 750 4 GB RAm running W7 64 bits | 23:05 |
| Sc0rpius | two monitors | 23:05 |
| Sc0rpius | the host OS (Windows) in one | 23:05 |
| Sc0rpius | VMWare maximized running Ubuntu in the other monitor | 23:06 |
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| Sc0rpius | so it's both environments at the same time | 23:06 |
| Sc0rpius | VMWare is extremely fast, you don't notice any performance degradation in the Ubuntu VM | 23:06 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: from debian/control: Depends: ${perl:Depends}, ${shlibs:Depends}, libplrpc-perl | 23:06 |
| Sc0rpius | ah then you got me | 23:06 |
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| Sc0rpius | now Build-Depends: ? | 23:06 |
| Sc0rpius | just a couple of lines above | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | WIN7(VMware(LINUX(ScratchBox(ARMemu(Maemo(compiler))))) | 23:07 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: debhelper (>= 7), perl-modules, quilt (>= 0.40), libtest-pod-perl, libplrpc-perl, libtest-pod-coverage-perl | 23:07 |
| Sc0rpius | that's the Build-Depends: ? | 23:07 |
| slonopotamus | yes | 23:07 |
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| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: do you see 5.8.4 there? i don't | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | WIN7(virtualPC(Ubuntu(VMware(LINUX(ScratchBox(ARMemu(Maemo(compiler))))))) | 23:08 |
| slonopotamus | and it gets correct 5.8.3 if built on n900 | 23:08 |
| Sc0rpius | "* Disabled scratchbox hijacking of /usr/bin/perl" | 23:08 |
| Sc0rpius | what exactly includes that change? | 23:08 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: :D | 23:09 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: export SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=/usr/bin/perl and export PATH=/usr/bin:/bin:/scratchbox/tools/bin in debian/rules | 23:09 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: without that, things were even worse | 23:10 |
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| Sc0rpius | well i think I'm gonna download the sources and see what the problem is | 23:10 |
| MohammadAG | umm | 23:10 |
| Sc0rpius | beacuse you don't really need to do that | 23:10 |
| MohammadAG | if I stash a commit | 23:10 |
| MohammadAG | how do I reapply it? | 23:10 |
| slonopotamus | MohammadAG: git stash pop | 23:11 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: without those, scratchbox tries to load arm .so into x86 perl (coming from /scratchbox) and happily fails | 23:11 |
| slonopotamus | MohammadAG: or git stash apply (that'll keep it on stash) | 23:13 |
| Venemo | http://xkcd.com/394/ | 23:14 |
| MohammadAG | I'm retarded | 23:15 |
| MohammadAG | I worked on something for 3 hours | 23:15 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: what's the matter? | 23:15 |
| MohammadAG | it didn't compile | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ finally | 23:15 |
| MohammadAG | I gave up and removed the changes | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | and still no luck :-P | 23:15 |
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| slonopotamus | Veggen: hehe :) | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: welcome to the club | 23:15 |
| MohammadAG | no, I was using CONFIG += mobility | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 23:15 |
| MohammadAG | instead of mobility12 | 23:15 |
| * MohammadAG faceplams :/ | 23:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 23:16 |
| MohammadAG | 3h work, gone | 23:16 |
| MohammadAG | oh well | 23:16 |
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| Hoxzer | :( happens to the best of us. Just make sure your gf wont hear about it | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3h? bah, nothing! if it's like 3 weeks, maybe 3 months, then you are entitled to start moaning | 23:17 |
| slonopotamus | commit early, commit often :P | 23:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | muhahaha | 23:17 |
| slonopotamus | then squash and push :) | 23:17 |
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| rdesfo | hello | 23:18 |
| rdesfo | has any one been able to get rsync to work with n900? | 23:19 |
| * DocScrutinizer idly ponders how long until he gets the much wanted versioning fs on all his boxes | 23:19 | |
| rdesfo | I can ssh into it | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | doing that every day, literally | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | cronjob :-D | 23:19 |
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| rdesfo | rsync [OPTION...] [USER@]HOST:SRC... [DEST] | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | need a hint? | 23:20 |
| rdesfo | please...I've read the man page and I'm still not able to get it to work properly | 23:20 |
| slonopotamus | Sc0rpius: i'm going to sleep, if you do smth good/have ideas with libdbi-perl, please, /msg me | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | while ! rsync -vaRzx --fake-super root@$1:/ ~/Documents/N900/backup/$1; do echo "$1 not available via ssh, retrying in 30 minutes"; sleep 1800; done | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | echo "########## rootfs synced, now syncing /home" | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | while ! rsync -vaRzx --fake-super root@$1:/home ~/Documents/N900/backup/$1/home; do echo "$1 not available via ssh, retrying in 30 minutes"; sleep 1800; done | 23:21 |
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| rdesfo | thanks | 23:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rdesfo: this assumes you have set up your .ssh/authorized_keys properly | 23:27 |
| Sc0rpius | hmm | 23:27 |
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| rdesfo | DocScrutinizer: thanks | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | rdesfo: and $1 obviously is the N900 IP target. I got fixed IP assigned to my devices in /etc/hosts, so I call this script like `rsync-N900 IroN900` where IroN900 is the name of my daily phone as of /etc/hosts | 23:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | of course `rsync-N900 192.168.1.41` will work as well | 23:31 |
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| Sc0rpius | I can't find debhelper >=7 all I got and I can get is 5 | 23:36 |
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| Sc0rpius | oh there's 7 | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw I *LOVE* hardlinks | 23:36 |
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| javispedro | moo. | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo javispedro | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | cp -al FTW | 23:39 |
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| Jaffa | javispedro: If you're still looking for the rotation PoC, see thp's most recent blog post on Planet | 23:40 |
| javispedro | thanks Jaffa | 23:41 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: And the merge request/commits under http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-desktop | 23:42 |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders idly to peek at recent MWKN | 23:42 | |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: You can ignore my blathering on the front page, I won't mind | 23:42 |
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| javispedro | hum | 23:46 |
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| javispedro | I wish I had some time to continue my experiments with xrandr.. | 23:46 |
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| javispedro | I still believe it is plausible to do it seamlessly | 23:46 |
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| pupnik | javispedro: what do you want to do? | 23:50 |
| javispedro | to make it rotate handset ux-style, without ditching xrandr | 23:50 |
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| javispedro | heh | 23:50 |
| pupnik | i'm sorry i have no context for that. maemo or meego? | 23:50 |
| javispedro | local tv is getting The IT crowd =) | 23:51 |
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| pupnik | badly written show, sadly | 23:51 |
| pupnik | great concept | 23:51 |
| javispedro | pupnik: meego's handset ux | 23:51 |
| pupnik | ah ok | 23:51 |
| javispedro | but using maemo as test platform | 23:51 |
| javispedro | (as maemo currently uses xrandr) | 23:51 |
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| * pupnik loves e7 design | 23:51 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: why ignore that? all I read there is to the point | 23:53 |
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| timeless | http://nokiapla.net/ <- makes me happy | 23:55 |
| timeless | err | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I still got a feeling of doom about that "meego device". Might be a tablet? | 23:55 |
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| RST38h | Doc: Will be a Harmattan phone. Stop winding yourself up. | 23:58 |
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