IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2011-02-10

*** crs has quit IRC		00:00
DocScrutinizer	there's been some crossword program that combines arbitrary words from dictionary to form a crossword, but that's rather useless without proper descriptions of the words I guess	00:00
*** style has joined #maemo		00:01
LjL	DocScrutinizer: there is? does it create actual crosswords, or more like things where 90% of it is blank? because i've been looking for the former	00:01
DocScrutinizer	umm, dunno	00:01
style	Hi, I could use some help with maemo's terminals and it's mouse logic... why does it sometimes shows pointer icon and sometimes does not?	00:01
DocScrutinizer	I guess that depends on parameters, and dictionary	00:02
LjL	DocScrutinizer: i think the algorithm itself must also be pretty strong to generate a solid puzzle	00:02
DocScrutinizer	hmm, simple try and error plus the speed of a 2GHz CPU will do	00:03
BCMM	indeed	00:03
BCMM	it's just a few dictionary attacks, where a very large number of words are a legit password :)	00:03
DocScrutinizer	minimax strategy it's called iirc	00:03
DocScrutinizer	just undo some "moves" if the results are poor in current step, use different words and evaluate a new set, compare to old and keep the better one	00:05
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo		00:06
DocScrutinizer	you can also call it an algo based on evolution	00:06
DocScrutinizer	and given the fact you can search in dict using regex, it's probably like 100 lines of code	00:08
*** me\|kor has quit IRC		00:10
*** VladNistor has quit IRC		00:12
*** zach-away has joined #maemo		00:12
*** zach-away has left #maemo		00:12
*** smhar has joined #maemo		00:12
*** mgedmin has quit IRC		00:12
*** me\|kor has joined #maemo		00:12
*** dos1 has quit IRC		00:13
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo		00:14
*** jrocha has joined #maemo		00:14
DocScrutinizer	actually you don't even need any prog for that, except a spreadsheet for the form, and grep to find nice words to fill in	00:17
*** crs has joined #maemo		00:17
*** l13tl3_ has quit IRC		00:17
MohammadAG	what's ##defocus? lol	00:18
*** Lantizia has quit IRC		00:18
javispedro	deFUDcus would have been better.	00:18
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		00:18
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: /join will tell you	00:19
MohammadAG	I'd suggest #meego, /me hides	00:19
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, no thanks, sounds like 4chan's /b/	00:19
javispedro	http://freenode.net/pounddefocus.shtml	00:19
*** style has left #maemo		00:20
*** davyg has quit IRC		00:21
trumee	MohammadAG, what happened to the mediaplayer you were developing. is it complete?	00:22
Dhraakellian	so... MediaBox or Rockbox?	00:23
trumee	iirc the goal to finish that was in january?	00:23
Dhraakellian	afaict, Rockbox would be preferable if the controls/keybindings were improved	00:24
Dhraakellian	...and scrobbling worked	00:24
* Dhraakellian wonders how hard it'd be to port over qtscrob		00:24
trumee	Dhraakellian, is Rockbox c++?	00:24
Dhraakellian	trumee: C	00:24
*** me\|kor has quit IRC		00:24
BCMM	MohammadAG: also, is it actually called Mohamediaplayer yet?	00:24
trumee	Dhraakellian, probably performs better than python Mediabox	00:25
Dhraakellian	yeah	00:25
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		00:25
trumee	Dhraakellian, can it do ogg/internet radio?	00:26
Dhraakellian	and, assuming the keybindings get worked out, getting back and forth between database, current track/wps, and playlist should be a lot easier than mediabox's convoluted navigation	00:26
Dhraakellian	no network stack in Rockbox	00:26
Dhraakellian	but it'll play pretty much any friggin' format you could ever throw at it	00:26
Dhraakellian	...so long as it's not DRM-encumbered	00:26
BCMM	Dhraakellian: MediaBox or Rockbox for what?	00:27
Dhraakellian	just general opinions of which is better	00:27
Dhraakellian	mediabox is shinier	00:27
*** jrocha has quit IRC		00:28
*** JakDaRippa has joined #maemo		00:28
thomasjfox	rumor has it next rockbox release on maemo will have embedded album art	00:28
Dhraakellian	and scrobbles (last I checked, RaaA/maemo's scrobbling wasn't working)	00:28
Dhraakellian	thomasjfox: does mainline Rockbox have that?	00:28
thomasjfox	rumor has it next release will support scrobbling :)	00:28
thomasjfox	Dhraakellian: Yes, since 30 minutes or so	00:28
Dhraakellian	ooooh	00:28
Dhraakellian	...not that I really care, since I use external image files	00:28
Dhraakellian	but still, nifty for those who use it	00:29
trumee	thomasjfox, so Rockbox cannot do streaming radio/icecast?	00:29
thomasjfox	trumee: No network support (yet?)	00:29
*** Geo has joined #maemo		00:29
trumee	thomasjfox, in the maemo port or even in the main software?	00:30
thomasjfox	trumee: Main software	00:30
Dhraakellian	trumee: remember that most DAPs don't have network hardware	00:30
thomasjfox	trumee: Rockbox's background is digital audio players like Archos or ipod	00:30
Dhraakellian	or Sansa	00:31
BCMM	yeah, i'm slightly confused at it being talked about as a userspace program	00:31
Dhraakellian	but, yeah, it's only the RockboxAsAnApp targets that have network	00:31
Dhraakellian	BCMM: first came the UI simulators	00:31
Dhraakellian	then came Rockbox as an App	00:31
*** blackthorne has joined #maemo		00:31
*** blackthorne has joined #maemo		00:31
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		00:32
*** ds3 has quit IRC		00:32
trumee	Dhraakellian, what is scrobbling?	00:32
Dhraakellian	and the sims became more like SDL ports of RaaA, iiuc	00:32
Dhraakellian	trumee: are you familiar with last.fm?	00:32
BCMM	so how does RockboxAsAnApp work? whole rockbox stack adapted for userspace, or just the GUI of rockbox on it's own?	00:32
Dhraakellian	(which was originally audioscrobbler)	00:32
BCMM	does is still play doom?	00:32
trumee	Dhraakellian, ah! used a little in amarok	00:32
Dhraakellian	BCMM: I imagine it probably could play Doom	00:33
*** Lantizia has joined #maemo		00:33
Dhraakellian	I think it's just the UI and codecs and such, but I really don't know the technical details	00:33
*** blackthorne has quit IRC		00:33
BCMM	(it's kinda hilarious that there are multiple doom ports for the iPod classic)	00:33
Dhraakellian	regardless, RaaA runs on Maemo, even if the keybindings aren't the best	00:34
Dhraakellian	(yet?)	00:34
*** nox- has joined #maemo		00:34
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		00:35
*** ds3 has joined #maemo		00:35
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		00:35
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		00:36
*** jhb has joined #maemo		00:36
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		00:36
Dhraakellian	http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev;revision=29248	00:36
Dhraakellian	and it's actually in Rockbox svn!	00:36
Dhraakellian	awesome!	00:37
trumee	Why do i need to insert usb cable multiple times before N900 recognises it and starts charging?	00:37
piggz	Dhraakellian: i tried it, and struggled to exit it as the gui wasnt great atm :)	00:37
Dhraakellian	ctrl+backspace	00:37
Dhraakellian	only way to exti	00:37
Dhraakellian	exit*	00:37
*** Geo has quit IRC		00:38
Dhraakellian	think of that little X in the corner like a device's off button	00:38
Dhraakellian	:)	00:38
thomasjfox	Dhraakellian: Either that or we'll switch to windowed mode. This will make window switching easier for people who don't know CTRL+BACKSPACE	00:39
Dhraakellian	ah	00:40
*** GNUtoo\|laptop has quit IRC		00:40
* Dhraakellian pauses a moment		00:40
Dhraakellian	oh, right, that's why your name looks familiar	00:40
Dhraakellian	I recognize it from the forum thread	00:40
Dhraakellian	*facepalm	00:40
Dhraakellian	*	00:40
thomasjfox	;)	00:40
Dhraakellian	when's the next build due?	00:41
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC		00:41
trumee	thomasjfox, is this the current state, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GimMHlAvxRE	00:41
thomasjfox	Dunno, I wanted to fix the shutdown stuff first.	00:41
Dhraakellian	any progress on keybindings?	00:42
thomasjfox	trumee: Na, the video is crap. Rockbox is really usable right now. In fact I use it daily for 4h to 6h.	00:42
DocScrutinizer	trumee: that's a known problem that happened to me one out of 10..20 times. Some race or sth	00:42
Dhraakellian	3x3 grid is a little annoying	00:42
*** NIN101 has quit IRC		00:42
Dhraakellian	...but it's the only way I found to get full functionality	00:42
thomasjfox	Dhraakellian: Is there a problem with the key bindings?	00:44
*** mece has left #maemo		00:44
*** SpeedEvil1 has joined #maemo		00:44
Dhraakellian	I forget exactly what's missing, since i haven't used it in a while	00:44
Dhraakellian	but there is some stuff	00:45
thomasjfox	ah. now I get it	00:45
Dhraakellian	I'll have to get back to you on that	00:45
thomasjfox	3x3 grid mode is not active with the cabbie theme	00:45
Dhraakellian	?	00:45
thomasjfox	I guess you tried a build when there was no real theme for 800x480 included	00:45
thomasjfox	3x3 grid mode should be gone...	00:46
Dhraakellian	I like absolute point for convenience, but if not all buttons are mapped to the hw keyboard...	00:46
Dhraakellian	actually... what's the latest build?	00:46
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		00:46
Dhraakellian	I should double check to make sure I'm actually using the latest	00:46
thomasjfox	the one in extras-devel, 2011-01-26 or something	00:46
crashanddie_	BCMM: "its"	00:46
Dhraakellian	yeah, that sounds about right	00:47
*** n900evil has quit IRC		00:47
* Dhraakellian ponders uninstalling Rockbox just to test whether a certain bug is only coincidental		00:47
BCMM	crashanddie_: I was abbreviating "it is", not using a possessive	00:48
crashanddie_	"or just the GUI of rockbox on it's own?"	00:48
BCMM	crashanddie_: also, that was like quarter of an hour ago?	00:48
crashanddie_	you weren't ;)	00:48
BCMM	oh	00:48
Dhraakellian	I don't see how it could be related, but my n900 started (seemingly) randomly shutting off around the time I first installed Rockbox	00:48
BCMM	you mean even further back	00:48
BCMM	well, in that case, it was a typo. 20 minutes ago.	00:48
Dhraakellian	no idea what's causing it	00:48
crashanddie_	16 :)	00:48
Dhraakellian	but I'll take the n900 out of my pocket to check the time and find that it's not turned on	00:49
Dhraakellian	(not apparently, at least)	00:49
Dhraakellian	and requires a battery removal/reinsertion to turn back on	00:49
*** lizardo has quit IRC		00:50
Dhraakellian	again, no idea what's causing this, but I think it started about the time I first installed RaaA	00:50
Dhraakellian	and ohgoodgrieflookatthetime	00:50
Dhraakellian	I need to be heading out now	00:50
*** dominikb_ has joined #maemo		00:51
Dhraakellian	oh... "Version: unknown-110126"	00:51
* Dhraakellian really disappears now		00:51
* javispedro ponders switching his n900 gentoo to hardfp...		00:51
*** SpeedEvil1 is now known as SpeedEvil		00:51
Dhraakellian	n900 gentoo?	00:52
Dhraakellian	,':-\|	00:52
* Dhraakellian really, really disappears		00:52
* thomasjfox can't even see Dhraakellian anymore		00:52
*** trem has quit IRC		00:53
*** dominikb has quit IRC		00:54
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC		00:58
*** luke-jr_ has joined #maemo		01:00
*** luke-jr has quit IRC		01:02
*** NGNUton-BC has quit IRC		01:03
*** lcukn900 has joined #maemo		01:04
*** MadViking has quit IRC		01:05
*** choppa has quit IRC		01:08
*** _Rui__ has joined #maemo		01:08
*** _Rui_ has quit IRC		01:08
*** FireFly has quit IRC		01:11
*** mpoirier has quit IRC		01:12
*** valdyn has quit IRC		01:12
*** user_ has joined #maemo		01:13
*** valeriusN has joined #maemo		01:13
*** florian has quit IRC		01:15
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		01:15
*** alessand` has joined #maemo		01:16
*** _Rui__ has quit IRC		01:18
*** alessand` has left #maemo		01:18
*** piggz has quit IRC		01:20
*** thomasjfox has quit IRC		01:21
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo		01:22
*** trbs has quit IRC		01:22
*** mirsal has joined #maemo		01:24
*** mirsal has joined #maemo		01:24
*** norayr has joined #maemo		01:27
*** norayr has left #maemo		01:27
*** norayr has joined #maemo		01:27
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		01:29
*** user_ has quit IRC		01:30
*** Vanadis has quit IRC		01:32
*** lcukn900 has quit IRC		01:32
*** jonwil has joined #maemo		01:32
*** willer has quit IRC		01:32
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		01:32
*** zlimvos has quit IRC		01:34
*** Kilroo has joined #maemo		01:35
*** mirsal has quit IRC		01:35
*** mat- has quit IRC		01:35
*** jhb has quit IRC		01:36
*** ToJa92 has quit IRC		01:37
*** Vanadis has joined #maemo		01:38
*** C-S-B has quit IRC		01:39
*** C-S-B has joined #maemo		01:40
*** Ian-- has joined #maemo		01:41
*** Kilroo1 has joined #maemo		01:42
*** Kilroo has quit IRC		01:42
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC		01:46
DocScrutinizer	this friggin lockup that needs bat-out reset - that's actually a PITA and a mystery, and needs someone to investigate the root cause and details how this 'works'	01:46
*** Diod has quit IRC		01:46
*** KMFDM has quit IRC		01:47
DocScrutinizer	I've seen this once or twice, but I have no clue how to reproduce it. Also no idea whatsoever about the hw state that causes this symptom	01:48
ArGGu^^	has anyone used the DrLaunch?	01:48
ArGGu^^	is there some configurationr that must be done before I can add it to desktop?	01:49
DocScrutinizer	I could use a Dr's lunch	01:49
nox-	DocScrutinizer, ive had that once when testing some mapping app (mappero? not sure), after i turned gps back on again and walked out the door...	01:49
ArGGu^^	Because when I try add it, it doesn't add to desktop :S	01:49
nox-	next i looked at the device it hung :(	01:49
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo		01:50
*** mc_teo has quit IRC		01:50
DocScrutinizer	hmmm, lemme guess (wild free associating) TWL4030 regulators, I2C bus, errm I'm not sure this leads anywhere	01:51
* DocScrutinizer pops up schematics		01:52
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		01:54
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		01:54
ArGGu^^	hmm got it working It the deb has missing depency :S neede python-dbus	01:55
*** mat- has joined #maemo		01:57
DocScrutinizer	nox-: YUCK, it's actually a problem inside GAIA TWL4030: poweron (button) directly operates on TWL4030 and schould just "always work" to reset. I.E. there should never be any need to remove battery to recover	01:58
nox-	oh	01:59
* DocScrutinizer fires up TWL4030 data"sheet"		01:59
* DocScrutinizer shudders		01:59
nox-	hm or maybe i didnt press power `long enough'?	02:00
*** Maggan has joined #maemo		02:00
*** alextreme has joined #maemo		02:01
* DocScrutinizer glares angrily aside on the few chips that are always powered and might actually shit on the I2C bus the live on		02:01
*** Cor-Ai has quit IRC		02:02
DocScrutinizer	I2C_2: tainted	02:02
*** toniher has quit IRC		02:03
nox-	in my case iirc it hung with the screen still on...	02:03
nox-	or shall i say backlight	02:03
*** Rarok has quit IRC		02:03
lucent	interesting, wl1251 injection source "held hostage" by the developer? :)	02:05
DocScrutinizer	ok, this is a "normal" case, though even then you should be able to switch off with long powerbutton press (I guess, though still loading twl4030 docs)	02:05
DocScrutinizer	lucent: nonsense	02:05
DocScrutinizer	nox-:	02:05
nox-	and this was also when i only had the device for a few days so i didnt know about things like long power button presses...	02:05
nox-	i guess	02:05
lucent	DocScrutinizer: oh, guess I'm late to the party	02:06
DocScrutinizer	twl4030 and CPU communicate via 2 dedicated I2C, for Control and SmartReflex	02:06
*** Dado7 has joined #maemo		02:06
javispedro	retarded mke2fs deciding a 3GiB partition's inode table size should be small enough not to be able to fit even gentoo's stage3.	02:06
*** Vanadis has quit IRC		02:06
Dado7	hi people ! good nights	02:06
*** Venemo has joined #maemo		02:07
DocScrutinizer	so there's no chance a locked up peripheral chip would mess this communication and thus block correct power-down/up	02:07
nox-	hm and in your case long powerbutton press didnt help?	02:07
nox-	actually isnt there also some watchdog?	02:08
DocScrutinizer	nox, yes there is	02:08
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo		02:08
DocScrutinizer	even two, one of them in twl4030 afaik	02:08
DocScrutinizer	and no, power button didn't help, not even 30s	02:08
nox-	ok	02:08
nox-	:/	02:09
*** Smily has quit IRC		02:11
*** n900evil has joined #maemo		02:12
DocScrutinizer	let's enumerate the chips that have to way to hard reset them, other than removing battery: bq24150 (charger), bq27200 (batgauge), lp5523 (lysti LED)...	02:12
DocScrutinizer	of course twl4030	02:12
*** SpeedEvil1 has joined #maemo		02:12
*** Vanadis has joined #maemo		02:13
*** Chiku has quit IRC		02:13
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		02:15
*** isak has quit IRC		02:15
*** isak has joined #maemo		02:16
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		02:20
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC		02:21
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		02:21
DocScrutinizer	flashdriver, N4290 2V5 regulator, N4242 2V8 reg, USB PHY 1707, N1350 LCD backlight driver, Speaker Amp, N6453 2V8 reg BT, WLAN module, BT module, GPS module, GAZOO	02:24
DocScrutinizer	I should've listed what's NOT directly hooked up to VBAT	02:25
*** guille_ has quit IRC		02:26
*** C-S-B has quit IRC		02:28
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: oh, I'd wish you'd be able to power it down by holding power button.	02:28
SpeedEvil1	You can	02:30
SpeedEvil1	press and hold 10s	02:30
*** SpeedEvil1 is now known as SpeedEvil		02:30
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: what, so the bluetooth modual isn't disconnected from power when you disable bluetooth?	02:30
BCMM	^module	02:30
SpeedEvil	BCMM: 99.9% of stuff has soft-power off modes.	02:30
BCMM	k	02:30
DocScrutinizer	nope, obviously not	02:30
SpeedEvil	BCMM: Where they use a tiny, often negligable amount of power when turned 'off'	02:31
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: yeap, but what if that fails?	02:31
*** mikhas has quit IRC		02:31
DocScrutinizer	(10s)	02:31
SpeedEvil	Hit power button with sledgehammer.	02:31
DocScrutinizer	hehe	02:31
nox-	haha	02:31
DocScrutinizer	did that on t900 :-P	02:31
nox-	t900?	02:32
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		02:32
SpeedEvil	It's the n900 with a mimetic alloy case.	02:32
DocScrutinizer	the t-est 900	02:32
DocScrutinizer	exactly	02:32
SpeedEvil	It comes with a free connection to skynet.	02:32
DocScrutinizer	while the other one is IroN900	02:32
nox-	haha	02:32
*** OkropNick has quit IRC		02:33
javispedro	obviously I was talking about poweroff after kernel panic or similar error condition =9	02:35
javispedro	the fact that I forgot to mention that quite important detail probably says how I usually torture the n900...	02:36
*** felipec has joined #maemo		02:36
javispedro	AND most importantly, one would like to be able to use the N900 afterwards. You know, like the space shuttle. So that discards the sledgehammer.	02:38
*** ColdFyre has joined #maemo		02:38
*** scoobertron has quit IRC		02:39
Shapeshifter	Gh0sty: yes?	02:39
*** lxp has joined #maemo		02:41
*** lxp1 has quit IRC		02:42
pupnik	javispedro: i blew out both speakers on mine :)	02:44
*** Lantizia has quit IRC		02:44
javispedro	hey, I just blew out one =)	02:44
javispedro	talking about torture, my n900 suddenly went crazy	02:44
pupnik	were you bypassing pulse?	02:44
javispedro	[45587.648223] attempt to access beyond end of device	02:44
javispedro	[45587.648284] mmcblk0p3: rw=0, want=4457448, limit=4194304	02:44
*** maheshk has quit IRC		02:44
javispedro	that's the _swap_ partition	02:44
DocScrutinizer	POR: Caused by a low battery and a low backup battery. The device also resets itself, including the backup domain registers (except the reset management that generates the reset), when the main battery is removed within 8 seconds after PWRON is pressed for more than 8 seconds and then released. This is not only a manual reset, but also a switch-off of the device. Pressing PWRON for 8 seconds without removing the battery also switches off	02:44
DocScrutinizer	the device (even if the backup registers are not reset).	02:44
javispedro	reboot time...	02:44
* javispedro makes a point to try that later on		02:45
*** LjL has quit IRC		02:45
javispedro	this is absolutely funny.	02:46
javispedro	suddenly the kernel went crazy and forgot about the swap partition size.	02:46
javispedro	so everything that gets swapped out is corrupted	02:46
javispedro	uh oh, including my FS	02:47
DocScrutinizer	When PWRON is pressed for 8 seconds and the battery is not removed, all the registers in the VBAT domain except SC_CONFIG, SC_DETECT1, SC_DETECT2, WATCHDOG_CFG, and IT_CHECK_CFG are reset, and the registers in the backup domain are reset only when the main battery is removed after pressing the PWRON key for 8 seconds.	02:47
nox-	javispedro, :(	02:48
nox-	btw DocScrutinizer how much of that stuff you are reading there is public?	02:49
DocScrutinizer	umm all?	02:49
nox-	oh :)	02:50
*** grinsekatze has joined #maemo		02:50
nox-	is the a link list or something?	02:50
DocScrutinizer	TWL4030__TPS65950 OMAP™ Power Management and System Companion Device ES 1.0 TRM (Rev. D)__swcu050d.pdf	02:51
*** norayr is now known as norayr^off		02:53
EstaTiC_FeAR	i am in love with this os and n900 nokia	02:54
EstaTiC_FeAR	i must admit it	02:54
EstaTiC_FeAR	i am going to marry my phone	02:54
EstaTiC_FeAR	lol	02:54
luke-jr_	EstaTiC_FeAR: Nokia killed Maemo off a long time ago already.	02:55
EstaTiC_FeAR	so what?	02:55
EstaTiC_FeAR	still i can love it and that phone	02:55
EstaTiC_FeAR	:)	02:55
luke-jr_	you can't usually marry a corpse	02:55
EstaTiC_FeAR	tells who? :D	02:55
EstaTiC_FeAR	hehe	02:55
luke-jr_	(nor tech, but that's beside the point)	02:55
EstaTiC_FeAR	don't get everything so serious	02:56
EstaTiC_FeAR	i simply like phone and it's features	02:56
Per_n900	Its great, I agree. There is nothing else like it, just use it and be happy.	02:57
*** blackthorne has joined #maemo		02:58
EstaTiC_FeAR	few hours ago i run a movie with mplayer and i played it same as on my computer	02:58
EstaTiC_FeAR	and that is something i first time saw on mobile phone	02:58
EstaTiC_FeAR	lol	02:58
DocScrutinizer	to whom it may concern: VBATlow_th = 2.7V (hard shutdown). VBAT_good seems to be 2.85V (minimum VBAT to start device)	02:58
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		02:59
DocScrutinizer	Vbupbat_min=1.8V	03:00
*** dominikb_ has quit IRC		03:01
*** Lantizia has joined #maemo		03:02
*** RobbieAB has joined #maemo		03:04
RobbieAB	Is the N900 music player supposed to be UTF enabled?	03:05
lucent	I don't think so	03:05
RobbieAB	Ok.	03:05
lucent	are you referring to filnames or metadata?	03:05
RobbieAB	Filenames.	03:05
lucent	(filenames)	03:05
RobbieAB	I assume	03:05
lucent	most music will be from vfat driver, right?	03:05
RobbieAB	Yeah.	03:05
RobbieAB	But THAT is ok with the filenames, it's just scrambling the accented characters.	03:06
RobbieAB	At least, it was from my laptop. :S	03:06
lucent	your laptop would be mounting the filesystem with its vfat driver and options	03:07
blackthorne	I've been trying to make apps with qt for my n900 but they look horrible, they look like the desktop version	03:07
lucent	not the options used on the N900, you see, it is unmounted when you connect in storage mode	03:07
*** Ken-Young has joined #maemo		03:07
lucent	http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_Hildon	03:07
blackthorne	How can I build an app that looks native just like the default appsthat come with maemo 5?	03:08
DocScrutinizer	(2.85V startup) umm, actually: >> VBUS and USB levels are reset to 0 when VBAT is low. When recovering from a VBAT domain reset (for example, when changing from NO_BAT to VBAT > 3.2 V), if the starting condition levels are valid, the device starts (example: it starts if VBUS is already plugged in).	03:08
lucent	blackthorne: respect the Hildon UI (see above)	03:08
javispedro	tracker is stupid.	03:08
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		03:09
blackthorne	Hildon... I've heard that name before... Thanks	03:09
RobbieAB	lucent: The file manager on the N900 displays the characters correctly...	03:09
lucent	ok	03:10
DocScrutinizer	hehe, thermal shutdown level = 150°C	03:10
RobbieAB	Oh well. I guess I will just ignore it as best I can. Seems like an odd absence from the device though. :(	03:11
*** ColdFyre has quit IRC		03:11
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		03:11
*** Gyjf has quit IRC		03:11
blackthorne	Is there any simulator/emulator that could help me debugging apps for the n900?	03:11
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		03:12
nox-	there's a madde qemu...	03:12
*** Gyjf has joined #maemo		03:12
*** l13tl3 has joined #maemo		03:12
*** anidel has quit IRC		03:12
blackthorne	nox-: I found a post refering to it, seems not to completely boot	03:13
*** Natunen has quit IRC		03:15
*** noodles900 has joined #maemo		03:15
nox-	hm i dont remember what i did exactly to get it running... :/	03:16
*** MadViking has quit IRC		03:16
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		03:16
*** RobbieAB1 has joined #maemo		03:17
blackthorne	nox-: So you are telling me it works, right?	03:17
nox-	wfm	03:17
nox-	i only found pr1.2 images tho iircv	03:17
nox-	iirc	03:17
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		03:17
*** felipec has quit IRC		03:18
*** RobbieAB has quit IRC		03:18
*** RobbieAB1 is now known as RobbieAB		03:18
nox-	tho that was a while ago, maybe there are pr1.3 ones now	03:18
javispedro	blackthorne: best is real device.	03:18
javispedro	blackthorne: otherwise, what you're using to develop?	03:18
*** ColdFyre has joined #maemo		03:20
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		03:21
blackthorne	pyside	03:21
blackthorne	emacs	03:21
nox-	http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2011/02/09/white-trash-repairs-must-be-browsing-too-much-hot-stuff/	03:24
javispedro	blackthorne: so, what functionality you want to emulate? just run the stuff on your host computer.	03:24
*** Kilroo has joined #maemo		03:24
*** noodles900 has quit IRC		03:24
blackthorne	the whole OS, I want to test my apps in a more agile way	03:25
*** Kilroo2 has joined #maemo		03:26
*** Kilroo has quit IRC		03:26
*** geaaru_ has quit IRC		03:26
*** Kilroo1 has quit IRC		03:26
nox-	http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/news/data-shows-disastrous-gps-jamming-fcc-approved-broadcaster-11029?utm_source=GPS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Navigate_01_31_2011&utm_content=data-shows-disastrous-gps-jamming-fcc-approved-broadcaster-11029	03:26
javispedro	blackthorne: scratchbox (aka the maemo sdk) ships with a port of the most importance pieces of the OS to x86 that you can run (on a chroot + a Xephyr window)	03:30
*** ColdFyre has quit IRC		03:34
*** jd has quit IRC		03:36
Arkenoi	reuters says n9 is to be dropped?	03:36
Arkenoi	smells much like bullshit, though	03:37
wmarone	old news	03:37
javispedro	aha.	03:37
*** rafaelbrandao has joined #maemo		03:38
javispedro	yet another patch for tracker, to make it _fscking properly ignore /mnt if I had tell it to do it SO, dammit!_	03:38
*** Malin_ has quit IRC		03:39
javispedro	( http://maemo.pastebin.com/EWMDjpq7 )	03:39
*** ColdFyre has joined #maemo		03:40
DocScrutinizer	can we fsckng nuke tracker PLEASE? and replace it with a simple directory scan realtime	03:44
javispedro	"simple" and "realtime directory scan" is seemingly an imposible task, based on previous example (tracker, nokia's metacrawler)	03:46
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: until that glorious day tracker dies, where can I get the patched binary?	03:47
pupnik	You can disable tracker	03:49
pupnik	one of the first things to do	03:49
DocScrutinizer	or better yet: nuke mediaplayer, gallery, trackerd, thumbnailer, camera-ui, and use some sane apps that don't base on such a brainfart concept of a shadow meta "file " hierarchy	03:49
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/tracker/	03:50
DocScrutinizer	pupnik: which doesn't help either, as then no camera and no maediaplayer works anymore	03:50
*** ColdFyre has quit IRC		03:51
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: main tracker_0.6.95-*_armel.deb package should be enough	03:51
DocScrutinizer	:-D	03:51
javispedro	there are some more patches attached but those are about cover art	03:51
* javispedro should probably try to get those into the community ssu or something		03:52
* SpeedEvil sighs at insufficiently sanitised data.		03:53
javispedro	ah, the good old days, when I mentioned to someone that we should probably get those in the next PR and his optimist answer was "We'll also get the more recent version of tracker, as it fixes X and Y too".	03:53
javispedro	never happened.	03:53
* javispedro sighs, depressed.		03:53
*** C-S-B has joined #maemo		03:53
SpeedEvil	ReCaptcha - presents me with a formulae - with random greek and other letters to enter	03:53
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle		03:54
DocScrutinizer	LOL	03:54
javispedro	hahahahaha	03:55
javispedro	I kinda love when one word is a clearly legible one and the other one is a... for example, a tree.	03:55
* DocScrutinizer sighs at brainfuck of skimming 300+pp in /home/jr/Documents/N900/TWL4030__TPS65950 OMAP™ Power Management and System Companion Device ES 1.0 TRM (Rev. D)__swcu050d.pdf		03:55
DocScrutinizer	at least I learnt a bit about e.g SmartReflex	03:56
javispedro	now that I fixed damn tracker, let's go back to what I was doing...	03:57
SpeedEvil	:)	03:57
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: which was? teach friggin galery to segregate pr0n from family snapshots? :-D	03:57
javispedro	something like that but with geek pr0n	03:58
*** ColdFyre has joined #maemo		03:58
javispedro	oh, nice, clean, empty media player without all the pesky .wav files it got from the gentoo chroot.	03:58
DocScrutinizer	I'd be happy enough to find it drop all the irreco button png	03:59
DocScrutinizer	and cover art	04:00
javispedro	ah, cover art is unfortunate.	04:00
DocScrutinizer	gallery that is	04:00
javispedro	if it doesn't index it it won't use it for album art.	04:00
DocScrutinizer	while mediaplayer doesn't use separate cover art, only embedded ones it seems	04:00
pupnik	it is quite a failure for indexers to acquire all the graphics and media from games	04:00
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: with my patch it does, oh yes.	04:01
*** maheshk has joined #maemo		04:01
javispedro	(the above mentioned patch(es) to tracker, I mean)	04:01
*** woodong50_______ has joined #maemo		04:01
DocScrutinizer	fsckng trackerd should restrict itself to exactly 2 directories: MyDocs/mp3/ and MyDocs/DCIM	04:02
javispedro	edit .config/tracker/tracker.cfg and kill:	04:03
*** woodong50_______ has quit IRC		04:03
javispedro	set WatchDirectory=$HOME/MyDocs/mp3;$HOME/MyDocs/DCIM;	04:03
javispedro	IndexMountedDirectories=false	04:04
javispedro	IndexRemovableMedia=false	04:04
javispedro	and if it tries to index anything else, try my patches.	04:04
* javispedro is starting to tame this tracker beast =)		04:04
javispedro	that won't prevent gallery showing albumart though.	04:05
*** silanus has joined #maemo		04:07
compengi	hello all, i have 2 questions. first, i'm trying to charge the battery on linux, does it make a difference? i've read somewhere that i may need a nokia application to fully charge the battery? and 2nd i mounted the drive to my desktop, now i see 4 folders: cities, DCIM, Mac OS and temp. i want to copy some music to phone, so that the media player software would recognize them, to which folder should i copy the music to?	04:07
*** silanus_ has quit IRC		04:08
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: Throttle = 15	04:09
javispedro	feel free to experiment	04:09
javispedro	I personally prefer it to end quickly	04:09
javispedro	any i/o on the n900 causes slowdowns..	04:10
*** blackthorne has quit IRC		04:10
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: aiui it's a clean old posix niceness	04:10
*** optln has joined #maemo		04:10
DocScrutinizer	throttle is misleading	04:10
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC		04:11
javispedro	compengi: 1) no, but the only way to charge it fast is using wall charger 2) any folder you want, though you might want to "show hidden folders" to see the "Documents", "Music", etc. ones	04:11
DocScrutinizer	maybe I'm mistaken	04:11
DocScrutinizer	1) this doesn't really pull it off - the diff is like 20%	04:12
DocScrutinizer	actually in Mac OS/ directory there's a list of hidden and virtual names	04:15
compengi	javispedro, aha, many thanks! btw isn't slow charging process better than a quick one?	04:15
*** Vanadis has quit IRC		04:16
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: oh, I never got the "Mac OS" stuff to work under GNU.	04:16
DocScrutinizer	err not really (Mac OS), but at least it's a list of some of the .hidden dirs	04:16
DocScrutinizer	orly :-P	04:17
javispedro	yarly :D tought you mentioned using them.	04:17
DocScrutinizer	might be related to MacOS != GNU	04:17
DocScrutinizer	:-)	04:17
*** Extends_ has joined #maemo		04:18
DocScrutinizer	Mac OS/._Documents: AppleDouble encoded Macintosh file - MEH	04:19
DocScrutinizer	WTF that might be	04:19
DocScrutinizer	it's a useles 522k size	04:19
nox-	doesnt macos have those `resource forks' in files?	04:20
DocScrutinizer	wasn't that NTFS?	04:20
javispedro	compengi: depends on how much you want to wait, I guess.	04:20
DocScrutinizer	well, macOS as well I guess	04:20
villager	DocScrutinizer: maybe that contains a macos icon?	04:20
DocScrutinizer	though a different flavour	04:20
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo		04:21
DocScrutinizer	compengi: the diff is really small, and the impact on battery lifespan negligible	04:22
*** briglia has quit IRC		04:23
DocScrutinizer	compengi: locking the screen rather than keep it bright during charging has same effect as fastcharger	04:23
*** daxt has joined #maemo		04:23
DocScrutinizer	villager: prolly	04:23
*** MadViking has quit IRC		04:23
DocScrutinizer	friggin huge icon o.O	04:23
*** rafaelbrandao has quit IRC		04:24
*** FIQ has quit IRC		04:24
villager	or maybe icons for everything that's in it by default...	04:25
compengi	okay	04:27
compengi	:)	04:27
compengi	DocScrutinizer, maybe turning off the device will make the difference even better	04:27
DocScrutinizer	compengi: as mentioned above the diff is like 20% longer	04:28
*** optln has quit IRC		04:28
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC		04:28
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo		04:29
DocScrutinizer	compengi: given the fact you can't really turn it off during charging, the effect is identical between "off" (aka ACT_DEAD) and a locked screen	04:29
compengi	i see	04:29
compengi	good to know	04:30
*** maheshk has quit IRC		04:31
javispedro	lo	04:33
javispedro	l	04:33
DocScrutinizer	anyway it will charge like honey drips off the spoon, 90% reached very fast (like one hour) but for 96% you need another 3 hours, and it's unclear if there's such a thing like true 100% for LiIon cells	04:34
javispedro	in recent versions of gcc they're practically merging with Make itself	04:34
javispedro	(because gcc now controls the entire build process due to "link-time optimizations")	04:34
DocScrutinizer	umm	04:35
DocScrutinizer	so make is a hardlink to gcc then?	04:35
*** Smily has joined #maemo		04:36
javispedro	no, they talk over a socket	04:36
DocScrutinizer	OMFG	04:36
*** Extends_ has quit IRC		04:36
javispedro	same way submakes talk to its parent make (for stuff like job control etc)	04:37
*** jd has joined #maemo		04:37
*** OviQ2G has quit IRC		04:37
*** jd has quit IRC		04:37
javispedro	also, new C 201x standard =9	04:37
*** anidel has joined #maemo		04:37
DocScrutinizer	compengi:	04:38
DocScrutinizer	~batteryfaq	04:38
infobot	batteryfaq is, like, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers	04:38
*** jd has joined #maemo		04:38
*** rblank has quit IRC		04:42
*** quanttrom has joined #maemo		04:44
*** ferdna has joined #maemo		04:46
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC		04:46
*** OviQ2G has joined #maemo		04:46
*** hardaker has quit IRC		04:48
*** Dialekt has joined #maemo		04:55
*** Dragnslcr has quit IRC		04:56
*** rm_work has quit IRC		04:56
*** Dragnslcr has joined #maemo		04:56
*** chx has quit IRC		04:58
*** PaulyN900 has joined #maemo		05:07
*** PaulyN900 has quit IRC		05:11
*** pcfe has quit IRC		05:12
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		05:13
*** pcfe has quit IRC		05:13
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		05:13
*** BCMM_ has joined #maemo		05:16
*** BCMM has quit IRC		05:19
*** etrunko has quit IRC		05:23
*** etrunko has joined #maemo		05:26
*** zap has quit IRC		05:28
*** etrunko has quit IRC		05:29
*** etrunko has joined #maemo		05:30
*** maybeWTF has joined #maemo		05:30
*** maybeHere has quit IRC		05:34
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		05:34
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		05:35
*** Pauly has joined #maemo		05:38
*** TheXception is now known as TheXception\|off		05:39
Pauly	hello	05:39
*** TheXception\|off is now known as TheXception		05:41
*** Pauly has quit IRC		05:41
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		05:45
*** philipl has quit IRC		05:49
*** BCMM_ has quit IRC		05:51
*** RobbieAB1 has joined #maemo		05:52
*** RobbieThe1st has joined #maemo		05:53
*** rm_you has quit IRC		05:55
*** rm_you has joined #maemo		05:56
*** RobbieAB has quit IRC		05:57
*** dockane_ has joined #maemo		06:00
*** nox- has quit IRC		06:00
*** jd has quit IRC		06:01
*** bleeter has quit IRC		06:01
*** smhar has quit IRC		06:03
*** dockane has quit IRC		06:03
*** rm_you has quit IRC		06:04
*** rm_you has joined #maemo		06:04
*** njsf has quit IRC		06:09
*** rm_you has quit IRC		06:09
*** rm_you has joined #maemo		06:09
*** bleeter has joined #maemo		06:10
*** njsf has joined #maemo		06:11
*** jd has joined #maemo		06:13
*** jd has quit IRC		06:13
*** jd has joined #maemo		06:13
*** Dialekt has quit IRC		06:19
*** Dialekt has joined #maemo		06:20
*** maheshk has joined #maemo		06:20
*** smhar has joined #maemo		06:21
*** Natunen has joined #maemo		06:22
*** radic has quit IRC		06:30
*** radic_ has joined #maemo		06:30
Gorroth	did nokia really kill off the N9? this makes me want to hulk smash!	06:36
Gorroth	javispedro: you mean C++?	06:37
javispedro	no, I mean C 201x, google it	06:37
Gorroth	i did	06:37
Gorroth	C++ came up first	06:37
*** incar has joined #maemo		06:39
RobbieThe1st	Gorroth: We don't know. It's all rumor at this point	06:39
RobbieThe1st	Something will probably carry the "N9" label... but what the hardware behind that is...	06:40
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		06:43
Gorroth	yeah	06:44
Gorroth	i just want it to be a phone, not a tablet	06:44
Gorroth	i mean, tablets are welcome	06:44
Gorroth	but i want a phone first	06:44
RobbieThe1st	It'll probably be like the n900 - mostly tablet, with phone functionality	06:44
RobbieThe1st	something that's a phone formost is probably reserved for low-end devices.	06:45
Gorroth	mmm, well, they probably should rethink that	06:45
*** Roksteady has quit IRC		06:45
RobbieThe1st	Hell, I'd argue the same about the iphone and androud	06:45
RobbieThe1st	*android	06:45
RobbieThe1st	Phone functionality's just low end. What we're dealing with is a phone "module" plugged into a computer - literally, in almost all cases	06:46
Gorroth	yeah, that is readily apparent in maemo	06:47
Gorroth	needs to be seemless	06:47
Gorroth	seamless	06:47
RobbieThe1st	eh, I disagree. For most people using one of these, the amount of time used as a phone is comparitively small	06:47
Gorroth	not a good argument	06:48
Gorroth	but i digress	06:48
*** daxt has quit IRC		06:48
psycho_oreos	nokia has been dogging with symbian	06:48
RobbieThe1st	Personally, I just took an old Nokia dumbphone and used that as my phone - It's got excellent battery life because it's never used	06:49
psycho_oreos	you think nokia would all of the sudden scrap all symbian for maemo/meego?	06:49
RobbieThe1st	N900's for everything else; that way I never run out of battery when I -need- phone functionality. And of course, I can always stick my sim in the n900 if I want it at some point	06:49
RobbieThe1st	(like if I get a data plan cheaply)	06:49
*** daxt has joined #maemo		06:50
SpeedEvil	psycho_oreos: I don't think they have enough fecs up to speed to get meego to mass market.	06:51
psycho_oreos	SpeedEvil, fecs?	06:51
psycho_oreos	~google fecs	06:52
SpeedEvil	I have no idea what I tried to type there	06:52
SpeedEvil	enough coders	06:52
psycho_oreos	lol stupid bot.. meh	06:53
RobbieThe1st	I think meego will probably get to market - Intel's got deep pockets, regardless of Nokia	06:53
SpeedEvil	Sure.	06:53
psycho_oreos	yeah well their main focus has been symbian, even after sacking a fair portion of symbian devs	06:53
SpeedEvil	But will meego get to market quickly?	06:53
RobbieThe1st	I also think Symbian's not gonna disappear - They are still selling many million devices.	06:54
*** smhar has quit IRC		06:54
psycho_oreos	no it won't disappear, my point is that nokia treated maemo like a niche market sort of thing hence the lack of functionality for this and that.. and when it came to n900, it was delivered poorly	06:55
psycho_oreos	intel may have deep pockets but they won't like to do with the ARM platform for too long	06:57
doc\|home	maybe the marketing/sales but the phone itself is one I wouldn't swap for an iphone	06:57
psycho_oreos	s/do/deal/	06:57
infobot	psycho_oreos meant: intel may have deep pockets but they won't like to deal with the ARM platform for too long	06:57
Sc0rpius	well a Nokia phone with an Intel Atom is not a bad idea in my head	06:57
doc\|home	is the power usage comparable?	06:57
*** anidel_ has joined #maemo		06:58
Sc0rpius	well there has been rumors of phones with Intel Atom hitting the market this year	06:58
psycho_oreos	it won't be powered by atom, it'll be some really small intel x86 chipset, that was codenamed moorestown and has been available in aava mobile	06:58
DocScrutinizer	RobbieThe1st: thanks for the idea you gave me	06:58
Sc0rpius	Pankaj Kedia, the Director of Intel’s Global Ecosystem Programs has shown us the first Atom-powered phones, one of which is from LG (model GW990).	06:58
Sc0rpius	(that was several months ago)	06:59
RobbieThe1st	DocScrutinizer: And which was that?	06:59
Sc0rpius	but it was kinda usless	06:59
Sc0rpius	then they said the next generation will consume 10 times less power	06:59
psycho_oreos	and cheaper by the dozen? :)	06:59
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo		07:00
DocScrutinizer	you need a phone that works, even when you leeched battery empty on N900 with 'other usage'	07:00
RobbieThe1st	Oh yea. That -would- be a good idea	07:00
RobbieThe1st	Like a backup battery or disabled functionality at 10-20% charge?	07:00
DocScrutinizer	so the case of concern is: N900 stopped data nad irc and whatnot, and you need a working phone	07:01
*** anidel has quit IRC		07:01
DocScrutinizer	yes	07:01
DocScrutinizer	exactly	07:01
DocScrutinizer	10% should be enough	07:01
doc\|home	for me data is more important than being able to get a phone call. I rarely use the phone as an actual phone :)	07:02
doc\|home	data and sms that is	07:02
DocScrutinizer	hehe, I'll come up with a nice lil app tomorrow	07:02
doc\|home	heh	07:03
doc\|home	I'd install that just for the coolness of it :) one more reason not to get an iphone	07:03
*** maheshk has quit IRC		07:08
*** incar has quit IRC		07:08
*** luke-jr_ is now known as luke-jr		07:10
*** javispedro has quit IRC		07:16
*** Sazpaimon has quit IRC		07:17
*** Sazpaimon has joined #maemo		07:17
*** etrunko has quit IRC		07:19
*** ebzzry has joined #maemo		07:25
ebzzry	Hi! I'm trying to install `findutils' but aptitude suggests that `busybox' be removed? Is that OK? The score is 298727	07:26
*** ebzzry_ has joined #maemo		07:28
SpeedEvil	No, it's not OK	07:29
*** spiritd has joined #maemo		07:29
SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/packages/view/findutils-gnu/ I think is the right package	07:30
SpeedEvil	it does not replace busybox find, but adds gfind	07:30
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo		07:33
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC		07:34
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo		07:34
DocScrutinizer51	Venemo: updated puzzlemaster. Sorry but it's reaaly much less nice and snappy and smooth than before	07:35
DocScrutinizer51	and after solving the puzzle it seems it segfaulted on clicking randomly on the tiles	07:36
*** alextreme has quit IRC		07:37
*** ebzzry_ has quit IRC		07:38
ebzzry	SpeedEvil: It's not OK since busyboy is a integral part of the system?	07:38
ebzzry	What package has `locate'?	07:38
*** Sc0rpius has quit IRC		07:41
ShadowJK	My new netbook (dual core atom N550) lasts me a day and has 55% battery left	07:41
ShadowJK	of course I don't open the lid as often as I pick up my N900.. and my N900 doesn't go into full suspend when I put it in my pocket..	07:41
*** Necc has joined #maemo		07:43
ShadowJK	It takes like 3 seconds to hybrid suspend, which is fast for a x86, but still very slow	07:43
ShadowJK	on OLPC they could throw out the BIOS and use some opensource replacement, so they could actually enter suspend while still displaying a page of text on screen, and come out of suspend fast enough when user moved mouse that it was seamless more or less :D	07:44
*** hardaker has quit IRC		07:49
*** isak has quit IRC		07:49
*** ferdna has quit IRC		07:54
pupnik	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHy3b7tsSyk Japan - Ghosts	07:54
*** mairas has quit IRC		08:00
SpeedEvil	ebzzry: yes - it will break.	08:03
pupnik	RIP Mick Karn	08:04
SpeedEvil	ebzzry: busybox is absolutely required for the system to boot. Even if you replace it with 'compatible' gnu tools, it won't work, due to busyboxisms in the scripts.	08:04
DocScrutinizer51	nice version	08:04
*** Necc has quit IRC		08:05
pupnik	indeed	08:06
pupnik	just woke up from a dream, hearing/singing that song with different lyrics	08:06
ebzzry	SpeedEvil: I've semi-bricked my system many times as a result of experimentation (replacing /bin/sh, among others). I find it odd that aptitude gives such a high score	08:07
ebzzry	SpeedEvil: Since we're on that topic, is there an existing locate+updatedb package for Maemo 5?	08:07
ebzzry	SpeedEvil: Or is the solution is "roll your own"?	08:08
*** daxt has quit IRC		08:09
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo		08:09
SpeedEvil	Go to http://maemo.org/packages/ - right click on the search box, and add it to a shortcut. Then simply type 'p locate' into the location bar.	08:09
SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/packages/view/locate/	08:09
Dhraakellian	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmoDLyiQYKw	08:10
*** Sicelo has joined #maemo		08:10
*** daxt has joined #maemo		08:10
*** valeriusN has quit IRC		08:12
ebzzry	Thanks	08:12
*** valeriusN has joined #maemo		08:18
*** lmoura_ has quit IRC		08:21
*** Sicelo has quit IRC		08:21
*** pcacjr has quit IRC		08:23
*** pcacjr has joined #maemo		08:24
*** pcacjr has joined #maemo		08:24
*** renatofilho has quit IRC		08:24
*** renatofilho has joined #maemo		08:24
*** lmoura_ has joined #maemo		08:24
*** nicu has quit IRC		08:26
*** KMFDM has joined #maemo		08:27
*** rosseaux has quit IRC		08:36
*** daxt has quit IRC		08:37
*** vanadis has joined #maemo		08:38
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo		08:38
*** daxt has joined #maemo		08:39
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo		08:40
*** Vanadis_ has joined #maemo		08:48
*** mairas_ has quit IRC		08:49
*** FireFly\|n900 has quit IRC		08:52
*** FredrIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		08:57
*** FIQ\|n900 has quit IRC		09:00
*** Sicelo has joined #maemo		09:01
*** villev has joined #maemo		09:04
*** booiiing\|clone has joined #maemo		09:09
*** onekenthomas_2 has joined #maemo		09:11
*** booiiing has quit IRC		09:12
*** onekenthomas_3 has quit IRC		09:13
*** tekojo has joined #maemo		09:15
*** tekojo has quit IRC		09:15
*** tekojo has joined #maemo		09:15
*** FredrIQ\|n900 has quit IRC		09:15
*** jrocha has joined #maemo		09:16
*** ab has joined #maemo		09:17
*** ab has quit IRC		09:17
*** ab has joined #maemo		09:17
*** norayr^off has quit IRC		09:18
*** trx2 has joined #maemo		09:18
*** eMHa has quit IRC		09:21
*** otep has quit IRC		09:21
*** mece has joined #maemo		09:22
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		09:32
*** marienz has quit IRC		09:32
*** tackat has joined #maemo		09:34
ebzzry	SpeedEvil: Is it OK to point /usr/bin/find to /usr/bin/gfind?	09:38
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		09:38
*** FIQ\|n900 has quit IRC		09:38
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		09:38
*** geaaru has quit IRC		09:39
*** gomiam has joined #maemo		09:41
*** gomiam has quit IRC		09:41
*** ppenz has joined #maemo		09:42
*** schend has joined #maemo		09:43
*** daxt has quit IRC		09:44
*** FIQ\|n900 has quit IRC		09:45
*** gomiam has joined #maemo		09:46
*** daxt has joined #maemo		09:46
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC		09:48
*** achipa1 has quit IRC		09:50
*** murrayc has joined #maemo		09:52
*** nicu has joined #maemo		09:54
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC		09:55
*** kwek has joined #maemo		09:56
*** svillar has joined #maemo		09:57
*** [DrkGUNMAN-N900] has joined #maemo		10:00
*** valdyn has joined #maemo		10:00
*** daxt has quit IRC		10:01
*** chx has joined #maemo		10:01
*** daxt has joined #maemo		10:03
RobbieThe1st	ebzzry: I'd move /usr/bin/gfind into the rootfs first though	10:03
RobbieThe1st	It's - IIRC - symlinked from the optfs	10:03
RobbieThe1st	also, install backupmenu first; you'll likely need to reflash if you make a mistake otherwise	10:04
*** ab has quit IRC		10:05
*** Rarok has joined #maemo		10:05
*** scoobertron has joined #maemo		10:06
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		10:08
*** jpe_ has joined #maemo		10:10
*** mgedmin has quit IRC		10:12
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo		10:12
*** Termana has joined #maemo		10:12
*** hannesw_ is now known as hannesw		10:12
Termana	good morning	10:12
*** geaaru has quit IRC		10:13
*** calvaris has joined #maemo		10:14
*** Wikier has joined #maemo		10:14
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		10:14
*** kimitake_idle has quit IRC		10:15
*** paroneayea has quit IRC		10:19
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC		10:20
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo		10:20
*** larsivi has joined #maemo		10:24
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		10:24
*** andrenarchy has joined #maemo		10:25
*** andrenarchy has left #maemo		10:25
*** jhb has joined #maemo		10:26
*** tackat has quit IRC		10:27
[DrkGUNMAN-N900]	a belated good morning to you too	10:28
*** bzhb has quit IRC		10:29
*** tackat has joined #maemo		10:30
*** kimitake_idle has joined #maemo		10:31
ZogG	lol just saw intel jobs for students. they have Atom SoC Development Group for tablet and netbook development =)	10:31
RST38h	Yes. So, what is wrong with it?	10:32
ZogG	most of it for hardware development =)	10:33
ZogG	RST38h i think it's meego related	10:33
*** buntfalke has quit IRC		10:33
RST38h	Expected, given Intel's industrial orientation	10:33
ZogG	and RST38h shut up, i don't want to talk to russians )))	10:34
RST38h	ZogG: No. You have most likely found a UMG job	10:34
ZogG	UMG stands for?	10:34
ebzzry	RobbieAB1: Hmm, but gfind is located in /usr/bin/gnu/find	10:34
RST38h	ZogG: If you want Meego, look for SSG jobs	10:34
RST38h	ZogG: Ultra Mobility Group	10:35
ZogG	RST38h do you read habr	10:35
RST38h	ZogG: Nope	10:35
ZogG	RST38h APG is better	10:35
RST38h	ZogG: Meego is mostly done by OTC, so look for a job there	10:35
ZogG	RST38h you probably one of those who read 2ch =)	10:36
RST38h	No.	10:36
ebzzry	Oops	10:36
*** msanchez has joined #maemo		10:36
ebzzry	RobbieThe1st: Hmm, but gfind is located in /usr/bin/gnu/find	10:36
*** RobbieAB1 has quit IRC		10:36
RobbieThe1st	make sure that's not a symlink	10:36
ZogG	RST38h are you on linux?	10:36
RST38h	ZogG: Win7.	10:37
ZogG	buu =)	10:37
ebzzry	RobbieThe1st: It isn't. By the way, is the boot process dependent on an existence of 'find'?	10:37
kerio	maybe!	10:37
kerio	maemo is weird like that	10:37
RobbieThe1st	Probaby	10:37
kerio	it's probably dependent on the phase of the moon	10:37
*** kwtm has quit IRC		10:37
*** mirsal has joined #maemo		10:38
*** mirsal has joined #maemo		10:38
ebzzry	Can anyone confirm it?	10:39
*** bilboed-tp has left #maemo		10:39
*** achipa has joined #maemo		10:39
*** achipa has joined #maemo		10:39
RST38h	Ok, looks like there will be more fear and loathing here today, given the new wave of news abut Nokia switching to WP7	10:39
*** ptlo has joined #maemo		10:39
ZogG	RST38h i don't get who started that rumor	10:39
Corsac	not me!	10:39
ZogG	oh, got ya	10:40
RST38h	ZogG: There are multiple sources, so it is no longer a rumor	10:40
ZogG	like RST38h would say "on robber the hat is on fire"	10:40
ZogG	RST38h i don't think it's even logical	10:40
ZogG	all the sources are the same	10:40
RST38h	ZogG: does not have to be logical	10:40
ZogG	one started rumors and here we go	10:41
* RST38h is kinda tired to repeat that btw		10:41
*** lxp1 has joined #maemo		10:41
RST38h	http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-02-09/nokia-is-said-to-be-near-partnership-with-microsoft.html	10:41
*** lxp has quit IRC		10:41
*** moshee has quit IRC		10:42
Pavlov	windows on my n900!	10:42
*** moshee has joined #maemo		10:42
*** moshee has joined #maemo		10:42
RST38h	http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-10/nokia-said-to-be-near-partnership-to-use-microsoft-software-on-handsets.html	10:42
ZogG	RST38h i say meego+wp7+android+rim's os = nokia new Os	10:42
ZogG	OS	10:42
ZogG	Pavlov where are your dogs man?	10:43
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		10:43
RST38h	http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/technology/04nokia.html	10:43
*** dazo_afk is now known as dazo		10:43
ZogG	RST38h they just copy paste from each other	10:43
ZogG	it's not true	10:43
johnx	ZogG, Nokia will just ship phones with no OS direct to end-users	10:43
ZogG	NOOO	10:43
ZogG	i don't want to hear anything from it anymore, ba babababa (can't hear you) lalalalalala	10:43
RST38h	johnx: Hasn't OpenMoko done that? =)	10:44
ZogG	johnx, no, they would ship pictures of phones	10:44
johnx	ZogG, nah. it's just playing to their core competency: hardware	10:44
johnx	so actually, maybe they'll just ship plastic cases	10:44
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		10:45
tybollt	so I Guess everyone luled over the Ellop letter on engadget already? :)	10:45
ZogG	johnx or all parts and you need to connect them and a box to put in there	10:45
ZogG	tybollt he wrote letter?	10:45
johnx	tybollt, yeah. there was a spirted discussion	10:45
Pavlov	everyone brushed up on your Qt bindings for silverlight?	10:46
ZogG	about burning gasoline/	10:46
ZogG	?	10:46
ZogG	i heard new thing instead Qt is mono	10:47
ZogG	mono ftw	10:47
*** amigadave has joined #maemo		10:47
ZogG	let's spread rumors )	10:47
johnx	ZogG, it was something about standing about pouring gasoline on a burning scaffolding. I think it was meant to be a warning to people doing home renovation	10:47
RST38h	johnx: Personally reminded me of a medieval witch execution method	10:48
RST38h	johnx: Where they tied the witch to some logs, fired her up, and sent her sailing	10:48
johnx	RST38h, naaah. I watched a documentary once. I think they throw them in the water and see if they float	10:48
RST38h	johnx: right, but it is also necessary to ignite the witch for better show	10:49
ZogG	johnx, yeah i saw also people laughing about last time they said android is like peeing to warm yourself and about Nokia burring one Os after another =)	10:49
RST38h	johnx: Anyways, there is still a possibility this whole thing will blow off	10:49
ZogG	i don't belive in any WP7 on nokia	10:50
marmoute	johnx: they compare them to duck weight. no need to throw them in water !	10:50
johnx	heh. My bet: They announce all Nokia E-series phones will continue to have Exchange support or something	10:50
RST38h	johnx: Nokia will release a few WP7 phones for the US market, the phones will [expectedly] tank, the corpses go back to square 1\	10:50
johnx	marmoute, ah. you saw the same documentary!	10:50
johnx	RST38h, also sounds familiar. It worked sooo well for Palm	10:51
RST38h	marmoute: Actually, the threshold is not a duck weight, it is ~40kg	10:51
RST38h	marmoute: Heavier girls can't fly through a chimney	10:51
RST38h	johnx: SGI too, I think	10:51
johnx	marmoute, what was the presenter's name? Mr. Python?	10:52
RST38h	johnx: Is anyone buying those WP7 phones, anyway?	10:52
RST38h	johnx: Or is it a new Zune?	10:52
johnx	RST38h, soooo, I actually live like 10 minutes from MS HQ. I hang out with a lot of the MS guys on a regularish basis. Of the 8 or so I know, I think two (a husband and wife) have a WP7 phone	10:53
johnx	but android adoption was not super quick either	10:53
RST38h	johnx: So, what DO they have? RAZRs?	10:53
johnx	given time I think it will eek out a decent little niche next to Android for one reason or another	10:53
ZogG	johnx i bet they got WP7 phones cause they don't care and it was for free	10:53
johnx	RST38h, iphones. android. one has an n900	10:53
RST38h	johnx: OMG	10:54
*** FIQ\|n900 has quit IRC		10:54
ZogG	johnx KILL HIM	10:54
johnx	ZogG, my point being that they could all have them for free. and most don't	10:54
RST38h	johnx: Well, I have checked a few WP7 reviews and the thing looks awful	10:54
*** avs has joined #maemo		10:54
ZogG	i want to take iphone now for contrqct for free	10:54
ZogG	as it has a lot of demand in Israel	10:54
*** qurk has joined #maemo		10:54
ZogG	and to sell it	10:55
ZogG	just not sure to do it or wait	10:55
RST38h	johnx: Not clear why anyone would buy something like that, given a choice of Android and iPhone phones	10:55
ZogG	maybe i can take n8 for free as well	10:55
ZogG	but i wouldn't chnage n900 anyway so it's btter phone i can sell easily	10:55
ZogG	RST38h, i don't get why people buy iphone at all	10:56
johnx	RST38h, the two people I know who have them didn't pay for them, AFAIK. I don't remember what dept they work in, but they might also have work involving them	10:56
ZogG	i think there are two things iphone is awesome	10:56
ZogG	1st is tap tap revenge game	10:56
ZogG	2nd is in selling	10:56
*** valeriusN has quit IRC		10:56
ZogG	it's just iPhone feature to be awesome in sellings with no reason =)	10:56
*** TeringTuby has joined #maemo		10:56
ZogG	it's like mystery	10:56
*** bzhb has joined #maemo		10:57
*** ds3 has quit IRC		10:58
*** valeriusN has joined #maemo		10:59
*** PhonicUK has joined #maemo		10:59
*** ab has joined #maemo		11:03
*** ab has quit IRC		11:03
*** ab has joined #maemo		11:03
*** Chiku has joined #maemo		11:04
*** Chiku has joined #maemo		11:04
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		11:04
*** otep has joined #maemo		11:05
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		11:06
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo		11:06
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo		11:06
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo		11:10
*** chigga has quit IRC		11:10
*** dvaske has joined #maemo		11:10
*** Ian-- has quit IRC		11:10
*** Venemo_N900 has joined #maemo		11:10
Venemo_N900	hey all	11:11
*** crs has quit IRC		11:11
*** Andy80 has joined #maemo		11:13
*** Andy80 has quit IRC		11:13
*** Andy80 has joined #maemo		11:13
xkr47	hello	11:14
*** Ian-- has joined #maemo		11:15
*** mikhas has joined #maemo		11:15
*** mikhas has quit IRC		11:15
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo		11:15
*** TeringTuby has quit IRC		11:15
*** mikhas has joined #maemo		11:15
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		11:17
*** niko has quit IRC		11:18
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo		11:18
*** sezuan has quit IRC		11:26
*** onekenthomas_2 has quit IRC		11:27
*** lsm5 has quit IRC		11:27
*** lsm5 has joined #maemo		11:28
*** FIQ\|n900 has quit IRC		11:29
*** sezuan has joined #maemo		11:30
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC		11:30
*** alextreme has joined #maemo		11:32
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo		11:35
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		11:36
*** Khertan has joined #maemo		11:38
*** Andy80 has quit IRC		11:38
Khertan	Morning	11:38
Khertan	!	11:38
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		11:40
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		11:41
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC		11:44
*** GNUtoo\|laptop has joined #maemo		11:51
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		11:57
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		12:00
[DrkGUNMAN-N900]	morning again	12:00
Khertan	morning agagin [DrkGUNMAN-N900]	12:00
Khertan	:)	12:00
chem\|st	morning	12:03
*** scoobertron has quit IRC		12:03
chem\|st	is the CSSU wifi module a bit buggy?	12:04
*** chx has quit IRC		12:04
*** daxt has quit IRC		12:06
*** FireFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		12:07
*** FireyFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		12:07
*** daxt has joined #maemo		12:08
[DrkGUNMAN-N900]	havent had any problems with wifi since installing cssu. whats up?	12:09
*** Rarok has quit IRC		12:11
*** DarkGUNMAN has joined #maemo		12:11
*** [DrkGUNMAN-N900] has quit IRC		12:14
*** DarkGUNMAN is now known as [DarkGUNMAN]		12:16
*** Dado7 has quit IRC		12:17
*** [DarkGUNMAN] has quit IRC		12:17
chem\|st	where was the wpa_cli package hidden?	12:20
*** FIQ\|n900 has quit IRC		12:20
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		12:21
*** Chiku\|dc has joined #maemo		12:22
*** Chiku\|dc has joined #maemo		12:22
*** fabo_ is now known as fabo		12:23
*** fabo has quit IRC		12:23
*** fabo has joined #maemo		12:23
*** tackat_ has joined #maemo		12:25
*** tackat has quit IRC		12:25
*** baraujo has joined #maemo		12:26
*** trx2 has quit IRC		12:27
*** geaaru has quit IRC		12:34
*** eijk has joined #maemo		12:37
*** mazingo has joined #maemo		12:40
mazingo	hi there	12:40
alterego	heh, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12391129	12:41
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		12:41
Venemo_N900	alterego: ridiculous	12:42
*** mazingo has left #maemo		12:44
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		12:45
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: you should ask the islamic church to bless your quaran app	12:46
Khertan	chem\|st: didn't have any	12:46
*** ckandeler has quit IRC		12:47
*** ckandeler has joined #maemo		12:48
alterego	Hahah	12:48
Venemo_N900	alterego: :D	12:49
*** larin has joined #maemo		12:50
alterego	bbl :)	12:50
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		12:52
larin	Hi, guys. I bought n900. I have a ssh access. And now I have a question: How I can know the version of installed Maemo OS?	12:54
*** [DrkGUNMAN-N900] has joined #maemo		12:55
johnx	larin, settings -> about product	12:56
johnx	the current release is 20.2010.36-2 aka PR1.3	12:56
larin	johnx, Maemo 5, Version: 20.2010.36-2	12:57
larin	johnx, thx)	12:57
*** Venemo_N900 has quit IRC		12:57
*** nicolai has joined #maemo		12:59
*** FIQ\|n900 has quit IRC		12:59
*** nicolai has quit IRC		13:01
*** nicolai has joined #maemo		13:02
*** BCMM has quit IRC		13:02
*** nicolai has quit IRC		13:02
*** _nicolai_ has joined #maemo		13:03
chem\|st	Khertan: what handles wpa then?	13:03
*** FireFly\|n900 has quit IRC		13:03
*** FireyFly\|n900 has quit IRC		13:04
Khertan	chem\|st: what's the problem with it ? i use wpa on my wifi routers with my n900 without problem	13:04
Khertan	(i ven't change the settings since the update)	13:04
chem\|st	Khertan: I am looking for some kind of debug info and or cli interface	13:05
*** jpe_ has quit IRC		13:05
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		13:05
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		13:05
kerio	i ven't change the settings either	13:06
*** mairas has joined #maemo		13:06
chem\|st	the wifi on n900 works fine, it was a radius prox error	13:06
*** jpe has joined #maemo		13:06
*** Pillum has joined #maemo		13:06
Pillum	hey there	13:07
Pillum	which is the fastest psx emulator for n900	13:07
ZogG	Khertan do you read twitter replies?	13:07
chem\|st	Pillum: are there many?	13:07
Khertan	ZogG: of course why ?	13:07
Khertan	ZogG: but i'm at the office right now :)	13:07
ZogG	Khertan cause :1st i twutted you, 2nd if you use phone and i'm not in your followers list you can't see me	13:08
Pillum	chem\|st: dunno, how many are there? :D	13:08
ZogG	you gonna go for qml as i assume	13:08
chem\|st	Pillum: if there is only one the question is obsolete	13:08
ZogG	so you can make nice menu like in new gpodder	13:08
Khertan	(12:08:27) ZogG: Khertan cause :1st i twutted you, 2nd if you use phone and i'm not in your followers list you can't see me <<< but khweeteur unified view show reply :)	13:08
ZogG	Khertan what?	13:09
Khertan	ZogG: didn't see the menu of qml gpodder	13:09
ZogG	ok before that btw if you reminded me	13:09
*** lardman\|gone is now known as lardman		13:09
ZogG	on twit menu you have 5 buttons and place for one more =)	13:10
*** Pillum has quit IRC		13:10
ZogG	maybe you should add "view conversation" or "mention" there, mention is if i want to mention person but do not want to reply to this certain twit	13:10
Khertan	ZogG: the one more isn't ready ... (this place is reserve for direct message)	13:11
Khertan	ZogG: but i think i ll change the ui with the qml switch	13:11
ZogG	ok	13:11
ZogG	Khertan, http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4154/5416637626_be571d26a0.jpg	13:11
ZogG	check this one	13:11
Khertan	will be a bit the same ... but better	13:11
Khertan	oh ... it s fullscreen	13:12
ZogG	that is new gpodder UI, NSFW as it's too sexy =)	13:12
Khertan	really not bad	13:12
ZogG	Khertan, wazd helped thp to do it	13:12
ZogG	Khertan, that's what i wanted to ask	13:12
*** setanta has joined #maemo		13:13
ZogG	it you do something like that you can put your own buttons between minimize and close	13:13
Khertan	hum ... git ... copu / paste	13:13
ZogG	it would be nice to have menu	13:13
Khertan	exactly what i think	13:13
ZogG	like hom/mentions/DMs/list	13:13
ZogG	home*	13:13
ZogG	like in android and other crappy phones clients =)	13:14
ZogG	but better	13:14
ZogG	as maemo ftw =)	13:14
Khertan	ZogG: i was thinking more of unified/home/dm/mentions/search/list	13:14
ZogG	what for unified?	13:14
ZogG	never got it	13:14
ZogG	search is nice	13:14
Khertan	ZogG: did you use chrome browser ?	13:14
ZogG	mentions should be second as it's more important	13:14
ZogG	Khertan, yes i do, so?	13:15
Khertan	try chromedbird extension	13:15
ZogG	i think i used it once	13:15
ZogG	i use hotot	13:15
*** tackat_ has quit IRC		13:16
ZogG	can you just explaine what for this unified thing?	13:16
*** schend has quit IRC		13:16
Jaffa	Khertan: Trouble is I don't want to have to scroll through when catching up in the morning to see if I've got a mention. Having a combined timeline for during the day, but also a Blackberry-Twitter style alert/notification for DMs & mentions	13:17
ZogG	i think home is for who i follow(including mentions)	13:18
ZogG	mentions is for mentions also from people outside the following list	13:19
ZogG	and it's if i want to "chat" on twiiter	13:19
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		13:20
ZogG	Khertan, as well it's interesting if it's possible to make auto nickname completion with qml =) for HW keyboard as it wouldn't work for virtual	13:20
Khertan	ZogG: Unified is home + dm + mentions	13:20
Khertan	+retweet	13:20
lardman	morning	13:20
*** deegee__ has joined #maemo		13:20
Khertan	Jaffa: Khertan: Trouble is I don't want to have to scroll through when catching up in the morning to see if I've got a mention. Having a combined timeline for during the day, but also a Blackberry-Twitter style alert/notification for DMs & mentions <<<- planned	13:21
*** dominikb has joined #maemo		13:21
ZogG	Khertan, meh, it's useless to have everything when you can choose what you want; it's like in maemo msging system all ims and twitts and sms all together	13:21
ZogG	i prefer extra click than this mess	13:21
Khertan	Jaffa: with the qml ui, i ll demonoize the info retrieving	13:21
lardman	Jaffa: any mileage in grabbing the list of IPs from anonymous and non-anonymous wiki editors and trying to work out how many of the anonymous ones were actually members with logins who just weren't using them?	13:21
ZogG	Khertan anyway retwitted ( your by others ) doesn't work properly on twitter	13:22
Khertan	ZogG: yep i know	13:22
Khertan	ZogG: documentation say it should be in the unified api call	13:23
Khertan	but it s not	13:23
Khertan	but sometimes is	13:23
ZogG	Khertan, and it would be nice to have option to RT with comment, i mean yeah, it's cool RT @khertan http://awesomeurl.com	13:23
ZogG	"yeah, it's cool RT @khertan http://awesomeurl.com"	13:23
Khertan	:)	13:23
Khertan	ok ... i should made a roadmap :)	13:23
*** crs has joined #maemo		13:23
Khertan	too many things to remember	13:23
ZogG	most of twitts i just retwiit with new retwit but some i want to comment =(	13:24
ZogG	Khertan i can help you with my ideas how i see it, but you don't have to take them all you know but anytime you want i'm here or there or on twiiter =)	13:24
*** FireFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		13:25
*** FireyFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		13:25
ZogG	Khertan as well as you can use main instead of home/unified and in option i choose if it would be home or unified =)	13:25
Jaffa	lardman: Given the state of the community, I dunno if the "easy entry" is still a requirement. But we might get an influx of new members if a) the N9 is awesome and loads of N900s go for sale; b) the N9 never gets released/doesn't meet ppl's requirements and there's suddenly a demand for N900s as the zenith ;-)	13:27
*** FireFly has joined #maemo		13:27
*** tackat has joined #maemo		13:27
*** zap has joined #maemo		13:28
ZogG	Jaffa meh noone would like n900	13:28
ZogG	only those who got it and stick with it	13:28
ZogG	as i don't see meego on n900 coz of the old HW	13:29
akikhaw	i have to say that N900 is the kind of an phone that grows on you the more you use it	13:29
akikhaw	a casual, non techy user is probably going to sell it and buy something else	13:29
*** deegee__ has quit IRC		13:29
akikhaw	but for others.. it just becomes better and better all the time	13:29
ZogG	and it would be miracle if Nokia would succeed to promote N900 for developers when they failed once and aboded Os already	13:29
ZogG	akikhaw agreed	13:30
ZogG	i was so sorry for n900 after i saw cool androids but i played with android and n900 is much better again for me	13:30
ZogG	i just think the UI in android is much better	13:30
ZogG	it's more phone UI but the way they did it	13:31
ThreeM	i loke the ui in maemo better :)	13:31
*** murrayc has quit IRC		13:31
ThreeM	fast, shot ways to do somethink, not so many menüs	13:31
ThreeM	i like it :)	13:31
ZogG	ThreeM, i mean not whole UI but small things, for e.g. portrait/landscape. the way you can change lockscreen, virtual keyboards	13:32
Jaffa	ZogG: Who said anything about N900s running MeeGo? If Nokia's MeeGo handsets aren't what people who've been holding off buying want, they might buy N900s instead	13:32
Jaffa	ZogG: Eh? you can change the lockscreen on Maemo; it's jut no-one does	13:32
ZogG	in maemo it was developed as one solution in android all those parts are like puzzle, you change this with that and you don't need to patch and change whole system	13:32
ZogG	Jaffa, MohammadAG is planing	13:33
ZogG	Jaffa, i just think the API of android as the system is more easy	13:33
ZogG	maybe i'm wrong as i'm total noob in it =)	13:33
ZogG	API /framework or what eever you call it	13:34
ThreeM	maemo has QT	13:34
ZogG	ThreeM, no it DOESN't	13:34
ThreeM	android can never has a better framework than that	13:34
ZogG	it has no QT	13:34
Jaffa	ZogG: MohammadAG is plan[n]ing? Planning what?	13:35
ZogG	ThreeM, 1st of all you misunderstand me, i'm not talking about apps, i'm talking about system	13:35
ZogG	Jaffa to make bubbles like in nokia lab for n900	13:35
*** Dialekt has quit IRC		13:35
ThreeM	maemo has QT4.7 with PR 1.3	13:35
ZogG	ThreeM, there is no such thing as QT4.7	13:36
alterego	ChristanObject.connect(:God, :sign => Jesus.new2, :action => :repent)	13:36
*** deegee__ has joined #maemo		13:36
ZogG	ThreeM, it's Qt for god sakes	13:36
ZogG	Qt!Qt!Qt!	13:36
ZogG	QT is quicktime	13:36
alterego	I'm thinking of developing a religious programming language.	13:36
ZogG	~google QT quick time	13:36
ZogG	ThreeM, and qt is something different at all, it's for application development or certain parts of UI but not UI itself as far as i understand	13:38
ThreeM	sure you can use QT to draw all the ui	13:38
ZogG	ThreeM, for example as we talked above, gpodder is rewritten with QML and use it's own system menu, but you can't easly change that as the system wide menu	13:39
ZogG	that's what i am talking about	13:39
ThreeM	ahh ok	13:39
ZogG	ThreeM, and it's Qt, maaaaan	13:39
*** davyg has joined #maemo		13:40
ZogG	ThreeM, http://extension.informer.com/qt/	13:40
ZogG	alterego if you make difficult programming language person that uses it can became religion or atheist and swear you till rest of his life =)	13:41
*** Rarok has joined #maemo		13:42
*** trupheenix has quit IRC		13:42
*** abhy has joined #maemo		13:42
ZogG	lol	13:43
ZogG	meego for netbooks is dead =)	13:43
ZogG	http://www.linux-magazin.de/NEWS/Tschuess-Smeegol-Entwickler-stoppt-Meego-fuer-Opensuse	13:43
*** PhonicUK has quit IRC		13:44
*** PhonicUK has joined #maemo		13:45
ThreeM	cause of tablets	13:45
ThreeM	old news ;)	13:45
ZogG	~ping	13:45
infobot	~pong	13:45
*** schend has joined #maemo		13:46
ZogG	http://www.palm.com/us/products/pads/touchpad/index.html	13:46
*** mazingo has joined #maemo		13:48
mazingo	hey there	13:48
ZogG	Jaffa, http://newsflow.substanceofcode.com/ - you should add it to MWKN	13:49
mazingo	has anyone some info about the musb of the n900?	13:49
mazingo	I'm trying to test it	13:49
mazingo	with high bandwidth transfers but it seems impossible	13:49
Jaffa	ZogG: Did, weeks ago.	13:49
ZogG	Jaffa oh didn't saw it there, sorry =(	13:49
*** Termana has quit IRC		13:51
*** FIQ\|n900 has quit IRC		13:53
trx	can anyone tell me what "tr" does in this line : menu = menuBar()->addMenu(tr("MENU TITLE"));	13:55
phellarv	trx: Trunk?	13:55
*** LjL has joined #maemo		13:55
* phellarv is guessing		13:56
trx	trunk?	13:56
phellarv	I mean truncate	13:56
trx	so its a function that truncates the string?	13:57
trx	why would that be nessesary :/	13:57
* trx doesnt know		13:57
phellarv	Dunno - As I said - I'm guessing	13:57
trx	yeah	13:57
trx	ty anyway	13:57
Jaffa	trx: Translate	13:57
Jaffa	trx: "MENU TITLE" will be a key into one of the translation bundles.	13:58
Jaffa	(again, guessing)	13:58
*** sx0n is now known as OssiOnBossi		13:58
amigadave	trx: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qobject.html#tr translate, as Jaffa said	13:58
phellarv	Guesstimates	13:58
*** OssiOnBossi is now known as user1		13:58
phellarv	;-P	13:58
*** user1 is now known as user2		13:58
*** marciom has joined #maemo		13:58
trx	oh	13:58
trx	that makes sense :)	13:58
trx	thank you guys	13:58
*** user2 is now known as user12		13:59
*** drj_cro has joined #maemo		14:00
*** mairas has quit IRC		14:00
*** drj_cro has quit IRC		14:04
*** drj_cro has joined #maemo		14:06
*** tackat has quit IRC		14:08
*** mairas has joined #maemo		14:14
*** tackat has joined #maemo		14:15
*** lizardo has joined #maemo		14:17
*** sulx has quit IRC		14:17
*** ag0ny has joined #maemo		14:19
ZogG	ruskie, for now i did the app with control buttons only for xmms2 =)	14:20
ZogG	only play/stop/next/forward	14:20
ZogG	need to get a long with Qt as xmms2 api is pretty easy	14:20
ruskie	:)	14:21
*** vanadis has quit IRC		14:22
*** etrunko has joined #maemo		14:22
*** RobbieThe1st has quit IRC		14:22
*** Sulx has joined #maemo		14:25
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo		14:28
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo		14:28
*** jonwil has quit IRC		14:30
*** chenca has joined #maemo		14:30
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		14:30
*** BCMM_ has joined #maemo		14:33
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo		14:34
*** scoobertron has joined #maemo		14:35
*** mazingo has quit IRC		14:36
*** dos1 has joined #maemo		14:38
* Khertan is afraid by all stupid people saying that nokia should cancel meego and adopt WP7 or Android ...		14:40
*** tackat has quit IRC		14:41
*** mairas has quit IRC		14:41
SpeedEvil	They should ditch symbian, partner with sybian instead, and upgrade the vibrator motor.	14:41
Khertan	SpeedEvil: :)	14:43
*** trbs has joined #maemo		14:43
*** toniher has joined #maemo		14:44
psycho_oreos	and that would make nokia awfully popular with female users :)	14:44
psycho_oreos	so much so that if people asked you which brand is your handset and you said nokia, they think you're being a poof ;)	14:45
*** chx has joined #maemo		14:46
*** Gizmokid2005 has quit IRC		14:50
*** scoobertron has quit IRC		14:50
*** scoobertron has joined #maemo		14:51
*** ZZzzZzzz_ has joined #maemo		14:57
*** mairas has joined #maemo		14:57
*** briglia has joined #maemo		14:59
*** arno0ob has joined #maemo		14:59
*** ZZzzZzzz1 has quit IRC		15:00
*** scoobertron has quit IRC		15:01
*** GeneralAntilles1 has quit IRC		15:04
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #maemo		15:05
*** lmoura has joined #maemo		15:05
*** tilppis has joined #maemo		15:08
*** jonwil has joined #maemo		15:08
kerio	nokia should cancel meego	15:09
kerio	AND GIVE US A REAL UNIX SYSTEM	15:09
kerio	DEBIAN-BASED	15:09
*** niko has joined #maemo		15:10
*** Suiseiseki has quit IRC		15:11
* jonwil wonders whether Nokia is going to come after him for using the header data in http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/icd2/policy__api_8h-source.html		15:11
pupnik	kerio: actually rpm no-longer sucks	15:13
* Sicelo agrees with kerio		15:13
kerio	pupnik: lies	15:13
pupnik	and apt itself isn't appropriate for a portable	15:14
kerio	it is :(	15:14
ruskie	how is yum any better?	15:14
user12	afaik i last checked linux is not unix?	15:14
pupnik	it's inappropriate to rescan a huge database	15:14
*** mazdok has joined #maemo		15:15
ruskie	from my own use... yum seems to be painfully slower than apt	15:15
psycho_oreos	yum isn't any better, it's basically yellow dog linux's package management frontend :)	15:15
psycho_oreos	they now recommend zypper however	15:15
ruskie	unless I'm missing on some special tricks to improve it	15:15
psycho_oreos	O	15:16
achipa	in either case, since dependencies are basically still uled out by the compliancy program, you don't really 'need' any of the advanced features of apt anyway :(	15:16
psycho_oreos	I've had my gripes with yum but that's because yum is heavily dependent on python (because the source code is essentially python). However zypper is written all in C/C++	15:17
ruskie	hmm can one use zypper as a drop in?	15:17
psycho_oreos	not sure	15:17
*** chx has quit IRC		15:17
pupnik	android packages install quickly	15:18
ruskie	have two fedora systems @home that I would love to swap out yum with zypper	15:18
pupnik	if meego package installation is slower than android, then it's a failure	15:18
psycho_oreos	android has their own fancy package based management system, like iphones	15:18
pupnik	so use it	15:18
flux	someone(TM) should write a sqlite-backend for dpkg	15:18
flux	and apt, while at it	15:19
pupnik	sounds good flux	15:19
*** Tsuyo has joined #maemo		15:19
*** woodong50_______ has joined #maemo		15:20
*** Rarok has quit IRC		15:21
Venemo	hey guys	15:22
*** moshee has quit IRC		15:23
*** woodong50_______ has quit IRC		15:24
*** moshee has joined #maemo		15:24
*** moshee has joined #maemo		15:24
Venemo	good afternoon achipa	15:25
Venemo	achipa: success! :) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=69454	15:26
*** dazo is now known as dazo_afk		15:26
pupnik	i'm surprised the chinese didn't get it together to make a maemo phone	15:27
pupnik	should be reassuring to Nokia	15:28
*** dominikb has quit IRC		15:28
psycho_oreos	what do you mean? there's n900 clones around	15:30
ruskie	psycho_oreos, running maemo?	15:31
*** Ken-Young has quit IRC		15:31
Venemo	psycho_oreos: but they're not running Maemo.	15:31
psycho_oreos	they claim to run maemo	15:32
*** HtheB has joined #maemo		15:32
Venemo	psycho_oreos: interesting	15:32
psycho_oreos	yeah probably symbian knockoffs	15:32
HtheB	yo :p	15:32
achipa	Venemo: congrats	15:32
Venemo	psycho_oreos: well then we know where do the 'N900s' come about which the guys are whining on TMO	15:33
*** murrayc has joined #maemo		15:34
psycho_oreos	Venemo, probably not lol :) like I said the chinese clones claim it runs on maemo but I bet it's just maemo UI minus terminal and other things like TV receiver added	15:34
Venemo	achipa: it wasn't very difficult, only some stuff about packaging	15:34
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo		15:36
Venemo	achipa: and of course #if QT_VERSION >= blah-blah	15:36
*** HtheB has quit IRC		15:37
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		15:38
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		15:38
sandst1	wow. In terms of UI experience it's quite close to 5800Xm http://vodpod.com/watch/5085281-nokia-n900-clone	15:39
*** lcuk2 has joined #maemo		15:41
DocScrutinizer	user12: last time I checked, andridiot wasn't even linux. So usually linux feels just sysV'ish enough to me	15:42
*** HtheB has joined #maemo		15:42
DocScrutinizer	and I don't give a fart about what package manager is used	15:43
DocScrutinizer	I mean we had HAM, how's that going to get worse?	15:43
*** lcuk has quit IRC		15:44
*** scoobertron has joined #maemo		15:44
*** HtheB has quit IRC		15:45
DocScrutinizer	user12: btw to stay PC: it's GNU-linux, and GNU is Not Unix. So thanks for the clarification, Cpt. Obvious	15:46
user12	np. glad you liked.	15:46
DocScrutinizer	I have a special shelp where I collect those :-D	15:47
*** kodomo_ has joined #maemo		15:47
DocScrutinizer	shelf	15:47
*** kodomo has quit IRC		15:47
RST38h	You collect Cpt Obvious badges?	15:48
*** juanmooke has joined #maemo		15:48
DocScrutinizer	nah, "Linux is not Unix" statements	15:48
RST38h	yea, Linux is not real Unix	15:49
RST38h	Toy Unix, at most =)	15:49
DocScrutinizer	I have several glasses with screw-on lid there, that hold just one week each with up to 57 such statements	15:49
ruskie	lol	15:50
ruskie	consider Linux never was Unix and nobody made a claim to such...	15:50
Veggen	I use to add: "but for most practical purposes, it's indistinguishable from it"	15:51
user12	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification#Linux	15:51
DocScrutinizer	there's no such ting like THE Unix	15:51
*** Suiseiseki has joined #maemo		15:51
*** tilppis has quit IRC		15:51
*** Azog has joined #maemo		15:52
*** anidel_ has quit IRC		15:53
*** FireyFly\|n900 has quit IRC		15:53
*** svillar has quit IRC		15:55
*** mpoirier has joined #maemo		15:57
*** avs has quit IRC		15:58
DocScrutinizer	Linux is as much a POSIX conforming *nix as many of the so called 'real Unix'' and there's been all kinds of SysV and BSD distris since decades, and it's really hard to agree on any definition about what's a real Unix and what's not	15:59
*** lmoura has quit IRC		15:59
DocScrutinizer	when it comes to mere portability, Linux for sure is way better than some weired dinosaurs out there. HPUX might be a bad example	16:00
*** Rarok has joined #maemo		16:03
*** mece has quit IRC		16:03
*** trx has quit IRC		16:05
user12	i have liked hpux, it's quite good.	16:07
user12	i used it over ten years almost daily.	16:07
*** chx has joined #maemo		16:10
DocScrutinizer	that's not the point though. Is it a REAL unix? Why? And why linix is NOT then?	16:11
*** mazdok has quit IRC		16:11
*** ShadSEC has joined #maemo		16:11
DocScrutinizer	claiming linux is no real unix is kinda like saying DrDOS is no real DOS	16:12
user12	hpux compared e.g. to a ubuntu? I am not sure but i believe that ubuntu is not posix compliant.	16:13
DocScrutinizer	says who?	16:13
user12	i don't know mr who	16:13
*** murrayc has quit IRC		16:13
DocScrutinizer	Dr Who please :-D	16:13
user12	:)	16:13
*** FIQ has joined #maemo		16:14
*** alextreme has quit IRC		16:14
jacekowski	linux is a real unix	16:14
user12	gnu is not unix	16:14
user12	it's a unix like	16:15
DocScrutinizer	by whatever def of "ral unix" - yes it is	16:15
jacekowski	it's just that it has no common codebase	16:15
jacekowski	but it's as much unix as any other unixes	16:15
*** z4chh has quit IRC		16:15
DocScrutinizer	exactly	16:15
user12	then it should register as posix compliant, which it has not done.	16:16
jacekowski	no	16:16
user12	yes	16:16
jacekowski	to register as posix compliant you would have to register every single version	16:16
jacekowski	and there is too many of them	16:16
DocScrutinizer	user12: I bet you're free to do that, for the distri of your dreams	16:16
DocScrutinizer	NB POSIX is NOT unix either	16:17
*** ab has quit IRC		16:17
*** Dado7 has joined #maemo		16:17
ThreeM	it doesen't matter how we are linux call. linux or unix... senseless discussion	16:17
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		16:17
DocScrutinizer	I.E: afaik even winNT is kinda posix compatible :-P	16:17
user12	yep	16:17
jacekowski	user12: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Standard_Base	16:17
user12	i wonder why it is just enough that Linux is Linux (c)	16:18
DocScrutinizer	while I doubt HPUX is	16:18
*** Gizmokid2005 has joined #maemo		16:18
Dado7	hi people	16:19
Dado7	good days	16:19
Dado7	some people know this new? http://thehandheldblog.com/2011/02/0...s-meego-maemo/ app android run in n900	16:19
DocScrutinizer	anyway last time I checked I found the friggin lot of (1p) (3p) etc in linux manpages	16:20
*** gomiam has quit IRC		16:20
user12	posix is actually "portable operating system interface (for unix)" if Linux doesn't want to conforn that it's ok by me.	16:20
DocScrutinizer	and it's rare linux doesn't comply 100% with one of those	16:20
*** tackat has joined #maemo		16:20
user12	problem should not be that "there is so many of linuxes" that it is difficult to conform posix	16:21
user12	i think even some doses and nt conforms it + osx ofc	16:22
user12	but it really does not matter.	16:22
Jaffa	Dado7: Yes, old news ;-)	16:22
DocScrutinizer	Though POSIX initially defined some unix system call conventions, it's nowadays way more and beyond, and applicable to OS that for sure are NOT unixoid. So I wonder what POSIX conformity got to do with definition of "real unix"	16:22
*** tekojo has quit IRC		16:23
*** villev has quit IRC		16:24
DocScrutinizer	Win7 fully compliant to POSIX via compatibility feature - so is Win7 a true unix now? :-P	16:26
DocScrutinizer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX#Compliant_via_compatibility_feature	16:26
DocScrutinizer	the simple fact: there is no such thing like THE TRUE UNIX.	16:28
DocScrutinizer	OS-A might be 70% SUS compliant (add list of conflicts here), plus 98% POSIX compliant (add another list), and 100% src portable to OS-B and OS-C, where OS-B maybe is a "real unix" by any arbitrary definition someone likes to apply	16:31
*** anidel_ has joined #maemo		16:31
DocScrutinizer	well, s/100%/99.8%/	16:31
DocScrutinizer	while OS-B and OS-D are a PITA to port src, though both claim to be "real UNIX"	16:32
*** Dado7 has quit IRC		16:33
anidel_	as far as I know , real Unix only come with a Unix Trademark (like Mac OS X)...	16:34
*** dado7 has joined #maemo		16:34
anidel_	but for me, they all are...	16:34
jacekowski	user12: posix requires pretty much nothing to conform	16:34
jacekowski	user12: it's couple basic system calls	16:34
RST38h	I have seen real Unix sold for about $15, suitable for drying laundry in tight spaces	16:34
jacekowski	user12: that's why posix is useless	16:34
jacekowski	windows conforms	16:35
jacekowski	bsd conforms	16:35
user12	and some unices cost more than a house and is rock solid	16:35
jacekowski	osx conforms	16:35
*** ToJa92 has joined #maemo		16:35
jacekowski	but try to port app from one to another	16:35
jacekowski	more complicated app using graphic stuff	16:35
user12	you mean like posix/x11 app?	16:36
jacekowski	yes	16:36
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		16:36
user12	afaik qt was first ported on symbian using posix like lib	16:36
jacekowski	there was company that linux fully certified that it conforms to sus and posix	16:37
jacekowski	but nobody cared	16:37
chx	what if feb11 is a super Linux OS running Dalvin and Symbian VMs?	16:37
chx	*Dalvik	16:37
user12	yep, not even thy	16:37
RST38h	Ahhahaha: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/10/amazon-app-released-for-the-newest-windows-phone-7-models/	16:37
jacekowski	chx: /	16:37
DocScrutinizer	hah, 1999 when I worked for Siemens, I tried to compile nedit for their crippled unix flavour. The c compiler blew chunks on help strings defines in text hardcoded, that were multiple lines and >64k :-P	16:38
jacekowski	chx: ?	16:38
chx	just thinking aloud	16:38
DocScrutinizer	I bet it was a "real unix"	16:38
RST38h	don't pay attention he is being delusional	16:38
derf	Well, technically that's far more than C is required to support.	16:39
user12	do you know how many MS engineers are needed to change a burned light bulb ?	16:39
derf	POSIX or not.	16:39
RST38h	1999 C, you mean	16:39
chx	WAIT.	16:39
chx	http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=1256034&srchIndex=31&trk=njsrch_hits&goback=.fjs_nokia_1_1_Y_1_1_1_4_R_true_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_*2	16:40
chx	Microsoft and Nokia have formed a global alliance to design, develop and market mobile productivity, communications and collaboration solutions.	16:40
chx	shit!	16:40
RST38h	He will become more delusional right about now.	16:40
*** ab has joined #maemo		16:40
*** ab has quit IRC		16:40
*** ab has joined #maemo		16:40
DocScrutinizer	chx: WAKE UP IT'S A DRAM!!!	16:40
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo		16:40
chx	DocScrutinizer: lol	16:40
DocScrutinizer	DREAM*	16:40
*** javispedro has joined #maemo		16:41
chx	it was better with DRAM.	16:41
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: moin	16:41
chx	it's ephemeral enough :)	16:41
RST38h	well, moo javispedro	16:41
javispedro	morning	16:42
DocScrutinizer	chx: >>These solutions will be available for a broad range of Nokia smartphones starting with the company’s business optimized range, Nokia E series. Over 50 Nokia devices today have Exchange ActiveSync capabilities and several models have Communicator Mobile (for OCS) capabilities developed by Microsoft engineers on the Nokia platform....<< So what?	16:43
derf	RST38h: Microsoft still doesn't even support 1999 C.	16:44
chx	DocScrutinizer: is that the end of MS-Nokia? Nokia doing WM7 would be a nightmare.	16:44
*** hannesw has quit IRC		16:44
DocScrutinizer	chx: Novel and M$ also have a partnership. That doesn't mean OpenSuse is a windows in disguise now	16:44
hardaker	No, the partnership means MS will now switch to using linux and Qt.	16:45
javispedro	in fact Nokia and M$ _already_ have a partnership.	16:45
javispedro	and I'm yet to see Bill Gates having written Hildon Microsoft Office.	16:45
DocScrutinizer	LOL	16:45
psycho_oreos	would sir like bloat with that	16:46
* DocScrutinizer hands chx a cup of very strong, hot, black coffee		16:46
*** kerio has quit IRC		16:46
* psycho_oreos then points to OpenOffice running on n900		16:46
chx	Right now, unless Nokia pulls a freakin miracle tomorrow i will go HP Vero and hope for a quick rooting and debian chroot.	16:47
*** scoobertron has quit IRC		16:47
javispedro	chx: pre's don't need rooting.	16:47
DocScrutinizer	burp	16:47
javispedro	s/pre's/pres	16:47
*** Sicelo has quit IRC		16:47
chx	javispedro: so far	16:47
*** ppenz has quit IRC		16:47
javispedro	changing that would be like if Nokia were to change that	16:48
DocScrutinizer	that's suicide in fear of death	16:48
javispedro	massive riots	16:48
javispedro	cats and dogs living together	16:48
*** kerio has joined #maemo		16:48
*** Tsuyo has quit IRC		16:48
DocScrutinizer	(going pre when Nokia doesn't come up with alternatives for meego)	16:49
dado7	[Away] demasiado autismo -autoaway, 15 mins- (Log:Pager) desde el 10 Feb 15:49:16	16:49
javispedro	so what good did came from the previous nokia-microsoft partnertship?	16:49
DocScrutinizer	dado7: fix that!!	16:49
javispedro	something about crappy exchange support in e series?	16:49
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer		16:49
*** dado7 was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)		16:50
*** dado7 has joined #maemo		16:50
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer		16:50
javispedro	and, if the rumours are to be believed (which I doubt), what they're going to say on friday? "Hey guys, we're re-partnering with Bill Gates. So far our partnership produced nothing save for crap, but this time, it'll will be different!"	16:51
*** ShadSEC has quit IRC		16:51
*** ShadSEC has joined #maemo		16:51
DocScrutinizer	muhahaha	16:51
*** Malin_ has joined #maemo		16:52
dado7	He regresado! (demasiado autismo -autoaway, 15 mins-) (Away: 3m48s) desde el 10 Feb 15:49:16	16:53
chx	dado7: remove your autoaway script you are spamming the channel	16:53
chx	hey the exchange support in the e series work to some degree.	16:53
dado7	okey	16:53
dado7	sorry	16:53
DocScrutinizer	"M$ will use Nokia HW from now on, as they think they can't get it done in their own labs"? or "Nokia will switch to winMo now, just to compensate for the diversity we already have, with sybian, maemo, meego"?	16:53
chx	This relaly needs to be Symbian compatible, a number of businesses have custom Symbian apps	16:54
chx	and i mean , that's pretty much the reason the Symbian platform stayed alive if i get what happened	16:54
*** scoobertron has joined #maemo		16:55
DocScrutinizer	dado7: we're not really interested if you're away or not	16:55
*** willer has joined #maemo		16:55
pupnik	how about renaming MS exchange to MS enslave	16:55
DocScrutinizer	dado7: nobody expects you're sitting at terminal 24/7	16:56
*** _nicolai_ has quit IRC		16:56
*** dado7 has quit IRC		16:59
*** tackat has quit IRC		16:59
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		16:59
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		17:00
*** MadViking has quit IRC		17:00
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		17:01
*** drj_cro has quit IRC		17:01
*** diegohcg has joined #maemo		17:01
*** diegohcg has left #maemo		17:01
*** n900evil has quit IRC		17:02
*** Noma_ has quit IRC		17:04
*** dado7 has joined #maemo		17:04
*** Diod has joined #maemo		17:05
*** schend has quit IRC		17:10
*** kuuntelija has joined #maemo		17:14
Khertan	It s funny noone talk about using WebOS instead of MeeGo :)	17:15
javispedro	Khertan: that's, ironically, because you're not on #meego	17:15
javispedro	where I just inadvertently introduced the topic.	17:15
Khertan	hihi	17:16
Khertan	:)	17:16
pupnik	i'm happy DocScrutinizer recognized that Japan song	17:16
Khertan	it ll made the link with Ari Jaaksi	17:16
DocScrutinizer	japan, dude. One of my favourites	17:17
pupnik	cool	17:17
*** larsivi has quit IRC		17:17
DocScrutinizer	actually it's been 2 japan recors plus 3 sisters of mercy records that were all I needed on mp3 (rsp flac) for 4 years	17:19
pupnik	Richard Barbieri made beautiful use of the Oberheim synthesizers on 'Ghosts' and 'The Experience of Swimming'	17:21
*** tackat has joined #maemo		17:21
pupnik	Between midnight and 7 AM I recorded in a studio Sylvian was using during the day. :)	17:22
DocScrutinizer	hehe	17:22
pupnik	located in a giant, abandoned brewery	17:22
pupnik	pretty surreal	17:22
DocScrutinizer	that's just OK for a studio	17:23
DocScrutinizer	Einstuerzende Neubauten had a practicing room inside a highway bridge (the road was the room's ceiling)	17:24
*** Necc has joined #maemo		17:25
*** drj_cro has joined #maemo		17:25
*** smhar has joined #maemo		17:27
*** Sicelo has joined #maemo		17:27
pupnik	hah	17:28
Sicelo	~fud	17:28
infobot	somebody said fud was Fear, uncertainty, doubt. Originally invented by IBM, but now used by many others. or YAFA. or Fscking Useless Data or otherwise known as false information or mindless facts with no backup facts or http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=7420	17:28
*** paroneayea has joined #maemo		17:29
pupnik	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Barbieri some more of Jansen, Barbieri and Karn's stuff is listed here DocScrutinizer - worth a listen imo	17:29
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		17:30
Azog	hi, i am trying to get usb0 working with dhcp, so i put "iface usb0 inet dhcp" in /etc/network/interfaces, unfortunately i geht the error: don't seem to have all the variables for usb0/inet. is there a workaround?	17:31
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo		17:33
*** scoobertron has quit IRC		17:34
*** dado7 has quit IRC		17:34
pupnik	did you add the hostname / IP address of your dhcp server Azog ?	17:35
Azog	pupnik: no	17:35
Azog	with eth0 it works without	17:35
pupnik	hmm i'm thinking of the wrong thing maybe	17:36
DocScrutinizer	pupnik: HAH! >During this time he worked alongside such other innovators as... Robert Fripp"	17:36
*** trx has joined #maemo		17:36
DocScrutinizer	inevitable	17:37
pupnik	:D	17:37
*** chmac has joined #maemo		17:37
DocScrutinizer	KC, my roots (along with FZ)	17:37
Khertan	DocScrutinizer: about Einstuerzende Neubauten << now i understand where there music come from ... :)	17:38
*** chx has quit IRC		17:38
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	17:38
pupnik	you can hear fripp and jon hassell on silvian's solo work - used to great effect	17:38
Azog	pupnik: i thought the advantage of dhcp is, that one has to specify nothing g	17:38
DocScrutinizer	jon hassell, another good one	17:38
pupnik	yeah i'd forgotten Azog	17:39
*** Sicelo has quit IRC		17:39
pupnik	wow DocScrutinizer, respect	17:39
pupnik	"mastering obscure... alternatives"	17:40
*** valdyn has quit IRC		17:43
*** marienz has joined #maemo		17:45
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC		17:47
*** qpdb has joined #maemo		17:47
qpdb	hello. i'm unable to connect to wpa/wpa2 wireless networks.. if i change my router to use WEP it works fine.	17:48
*** valdyn has joined #maemo		17:49
SpeedEvil	Odd.	17:49
SpeedEvil	Works for me.	17:49
SpeedEvil	TKIP or what?	17:50
*** FireFly\|n900 has quit IRC		17:50
qpdb	it worked for me too, for a long time.. but since some days it doesnt anymore.. i tried tkip as well as aes	17:50
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		17:51
*** kuuntelija has joined #maemo		17:51
*** FireFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		17:52
*** MadViking has quit IRC		17:52
*** Sazpaimon has quit IRC		17:52
*** amigadave has quit IRC		17:52
*** Venemo has quit IRC		17:55
*** FireFly\|n900 has quit IRC		17:58
*** smhar_ has joined #maemo		17:58
*** ptlo has quit IRC		17:59
*** FireFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		17:59
*** mirsal has quit IRC		18:00
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		18:01
*** smhar has quit IRC		18:01
*** willer is now known as willer_		18:02
*** drj_cro has quit IRC		18:04
*** Per_n900 has quit IRC		18:06
*** Necc has quit IRC		18:06
*** dazo_afk is now known as dazo		18:06
*** qpdb has quit IRC		18:07
DocScrutinizer	well, I see "no route to host" when pinging my N900 since I switched to WPA - prolly unrelated	18:07
*** calvaris has quit IRC		18:08
*** rm_work has joined #maemo		18:08
*** juanmooke has quit IRC		18:08
DocScrutinizer	also now see lags of up to 120s(!!) on pressing first keystroke on a idle ssh session into N900	18:09
*** Scorpius has joined #maemo		18:09
*** Scorpius is now known as Sc0rpius		18:09
BCMM_	DocScrutinizer: you're using wireless power-saving right?	18:09
*** Sc0rpius is now known as Scorpius		18:09
BCMM_	(and your router does it wrong?)	18:09
javispedro	routers suck.	18:10
DocScrutinizer	err for WPA now yup I do	18:10
BCMM_	javispedro: mostly, yeah	18:10
DocScrutinizer	lemme check	18:10
*** Scorpius has quit IRC		18:10
BCMM_	when power saving works right, it's totally cool though	18:10
BCMM_	the way the n900 will sit idle on the net for days, on battery	18:10
javispedro	Can you even buy a gigabit router these days for less than $100 and that doesn't require an extra power supply	18:10
javispedro	?	18:10
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		18:11
*** Sc0rpius has joined #maemo		18:11
DocScrutinizer	yap, MAX PSM	18:11
BCMM_	yeah sounds like your router sucks	18:11
BCMM_	i had one with the same problem	18:11
DocScrutinizer	~lart the designer who decided to hide this global setting in "advanced" of a connection	18:12
* infobot slams the designer who decided to hide this global setting in "advanced" of a connection against a large cement Tux		18:12
BCMM_	but it's a setting you'll never really want to use unless you have a buggy router	18:12
BCMM_	they probably didn't realise how many routers are buggy.	18:12
DocScrutinizer	changed to "none" - let's watch that shite for another 5 days	18:13
BCMM_	i mean, it wouldn't be a problem if the router didn't support PSM	18:13
BCMM_	it's only a problem when it features an implementation, but that implementation is broken	18:14
DocScrutinizer	d-link DIR-615 - anybody?	18:14
DocScrutinizer	(in AP mode)	18:14
BCMM_	best to disable it in the router's settings, if it doesn't actually work	18:15
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo		18:15
DocScrutinizer	Firmware-Version : 4.10 , Thu 22 Jan 2009	18:15
DocScrutinizer	GNU GPL included with manual	18:16
*** dado7 has joined #maemo		18:16
*** tripzero has joined #maemo		18:17
tripzero	luls... love the topic	18:17
tripzero	libqtm-12-declarative = most useless package ever	18:17
*** Smily has quit IRC		18:18
tripzero	it doesn't even install the declarative plugin :(	18:18
*** juanmooke has joined #maemo		18:18
DocScrutinizer	nm, should update AP FW first, then start bitching	18:19
*** jpe has quit IRC		18:20
*** Sicelo has joined #maemo		18:21
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo		18:23
*** larin has quit IRC		18:23
hardaker	I just saw a leaked document from Nokia	18:24
hardaker	They explained their alliance with MS	18:24
hardaker	M$ has ported Win7 to the N900. The April update will include it.	18:24
* tripzero doesn't want to hear it		18:24
*** buntfalke has joined #maemo		18:24
tripzero	hardaker, stop	18:24
*** kwek has quit IRC		18:24
*** svillar has joined #maemo		18:25
* tripzero upgrades router		18:26
BCMM_	I just saw a leaked USAF document revealing that Nokia's next smartphone will have reverse-engineered alien tech from a UFO. Also, it specifically says that hardaker is wrong.	18:26
*** smhar_ has quit IRC		18:26
tripzero	BCMM_, +1	18:26
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC		18:26
hardaker	heh.	18:27
*** smhar_ has joined #maemo		18:28
*** jonwil has quit IRC		18:28
smhar_	I gave up trying to free more space in my N900's rootfs to upgrade to PR1.3 . I am considering now Backing up my data and factory reset the N00 and starting fresh. probably a good thing to do after all the time I spend with the different repositories. My question is: what to files/directories backup?	18:31
*** tripzero has quit IRC		18:31
*** chx has joined #maemo		18:32
hardaker	smhar_: the default backup application gets 99% of the important stuff.	18:32
BCMM_	smhar_: why factory reset? just flash 1.3, it'll overwrite everything	18:32
hardaker	the things I'd consider keeping would be the /etc directory if you've modified anything, and the keysym file if you've modified your keymap.	18:33
BCMM_	smhar_: depends what you've modified. have you manually added anything to ~/ or system directories like /etc/?	18:33
hardaker	but yes, just flash.. you don't need to "reset"	18:33
*** abhy has quit IRC		18:33
smhar_	BCMM_, done only a OTA before, I will read about flashing too	18:33
BCMM_	i really wouldn't keep the entire /etc/ directory; i'm sure they'll be some differences in 1.3	18:33
*** Sicelo has quit IRC		18:34
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		18:34
hardaker	smhar_: I don't think I've ever done OTA because I never have enough room on /	18:34
smhar_	BCMM_, nothing special	18:34
hardaker	BCMM_: copying it somewhere until you know is what I meant, not necessarily a permenant archive.	18:34
*** Sicelo has joined #maemo		18:34
hardaker	I always end up needing to do something with /etc/ssh afterward	18:35
BCMM_	smhar_: btw, in theory, your MyDocs shouldn't be affected by reflashing	18:35
BCMM_	smhar_: of course, you should backup anything important anyway, as with any OS update on any platform	18:35
*** Sicelo has left #maemo		18:36
*** tackat has quit IRC		18:36
*** mardi has joined #maemo		18:38
*** svillar has quit IRC		18:40
*** lxp has joined #maemo		18:41
*** svillar has joined #maemo		18:41
*** lxp1 has quit IRC		18:43
*** zap has quit IRC		18:46
*** ab has quit IRC		18:49
*** geek00l has joined #maemo		18:50
*** noodles900 has joined #maemo		18:52
*** BCMM has quit IRC		18:52
*** dado7 has quit IRC		18:55
*** GNUtoo\|laptop has quit IRC		18:55
*** achipa has quit IRC		18:58
*** makulkar has joined #maemo		18:59
*** udovdh has quit IRC		19:01
*** udovdh has joined #maemo		19:02
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		19:02
*** daxt has quit IRC		19:03
*** jhb has quit IRC		19:03
*** geek00l has quit IRC		19:04
*** npm_ is now known as npm		19:05
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC		19:07
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo		19:08
crashanddie	hardaker, gtfo with you stupid claims?	19:09
hardaker	gtfo?	19:09
hardaker	(I'm guessing at the f :-)	19:09
hardaker	ohh... out.	19:09
hardaker	that was the word I couldn't get.	19:09
hardaker	got it.	19:09
*** Wikier has quit IRC		19:10
*** smhar_ has quit IRC		19:12
*** smhar_ has joined #maemo		19:12
*** mardi has quit IRC		19:14
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo		19:16
DocScrutinizer	I never touched /etc/ssh	19:18
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC		19:18
*** geaaru has quit IRC		19:18
DocScrutinizer	hi crashanddie	19:18
*** pcacjr_ has quit IRC		19:18
crashanddie	yo	19:18
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo		19:19
*** smhar_ has quit IRC		19:20
*** FredrIQ has joined #maemo		19:21
*** merlin_1991 has joined #maemo		19:21
DocScrutinizer	duh, thought I missed something funny while offline, but nope...	19:21
*** noodles900 has quit IRC		19:22
DocScrutinizer	aah, crashanddie responded to the April PR pun	19:22
DocScrutinizer	well, see /topic	19:23
*** lucent has quit IRC		19:23
crashanddie	well, that's why I told him to gtfo	19:23
crashanddie	it's in the topic, thus bannable	19:23
DocScrutinizer	yeah, got it	19:23
_berto_	7:30 am ??	19:24
DocScrutinizer	I'm just happy when it's Friday evening	19:24
_berto_	http://twitter.com/#!/nokia/status/35748280100982785	19:24
*** eMHa has quit IRC		19:24
DocScrutinizer	eh? twitter URL without further notice? Looks like SPAM to me	19:25
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC		19:25
_berto_	DocScrutinizer: it is, don't open it	19:25
_berto_	;-)	19:25
DocScrutinizer	well, do you try to earn a ban, a kick, or just a +q?	19:25
SpeedEvil	http://conversations.nokia.com will be the hub for tomorrow’s Nokia strategy announcement starting around 7:30am GMT	19:26
Proteous	ban the witch!	19:26
Proteous	he turned me into a newt!	19:26
DocScrutinizer	(btw Inever open random URLs)	19:26
*** [DrkGUNMAN-N900] has quit IRC		19:26
DocScrutinizer	esp not when they start as scary as http://twitter	19:27
_berto_	DocScrutinizer: even when they're from the nokia account and you're in the #maemo channel?	19:27
*** arno0ob has quit IRC		19:27
*** jrocha has quit IRC		19:28
DocScrutinizer	even then. How should I know about any fsckng account on a page I refuse to open?	19:28
_berto_	fair enough, it might even be a virus :-)	19:28
DocScrutinizer	it usually IS a virus	19:29
DocScrutinizer	and I'm not going to open any random URL to see why the FSCK somebody posted it to IRC	19:29
*** pupnik_ has joined #maemo		19:30
*** piggz has joined #maemo		19:30
DocScrutinizer	if you CBA to comment what it is, how can I bother to check what it actually is?	19:30
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer, in _berto_'s defence, "Nokia" was in the URL?	19:31
SpeedEvil	And twitter ... / nokia/ means that the account name is nokia	19:31
DocScrutinizer	yeah, I get mails with URLs like that every day a dozen: http://fslkhdhs.ru/DeutscheBank/login	19:31
Proteous	_berto_: the correct way to paste in a link is something like, "free c3al1s v14gr4 www.tinyurl.com/39&89"	19:32
_berto_	Proteous: indeed	19:32
crashanddie	But then again, so is this: http://lemonparty.org/?article=Apple-Jobs-To-Buy-Nokia	19:32
crashanddie	(NSFW)	19:32
*** dado7 has joined #maemo		19:32
*** pupnik has quit IRC		19:33
*** ag0ny has quit IRC		19:33
ieatlint	heh, next post the goatse article on it	19:33
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		19:35
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		19:35
*** n900evil has joined #maemo		19:35
*** baraujo has quit IRC		19:35
*** choppa has joined #maemo		19:36
javispedro	bash: bash: File or directory not found	19:38
*** willer_ has quit IRC		19:38
javispedro	bash: bash: Success	19:38
* javispedro sighs		19:38
*** chmac has quit IRC		19:38
*** kwtm has joined #maemo		19:39
*** Dado777 has joined #maemo		19:39
*** lucent_ has joined #maemo		19:40
*** willer has joined #maemo		19:40
*** dado7 has quit IRC		19:40
*** juanmooke has quit IRC		19:41
*** tackat has joined #maemo		19:42
*** pupnik_ is now known as pupnik		19:50
*** baraujo has joined #maemo		19:56
*** mece has joined #maemo		19:57
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		19:57
*** Smily has joined #maemo		19:57
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC		19:58
*** lucent_ has quit IRC		20:00
*** dneary_ has joined #maemo		20:01
*** dneary_ has joined #maemo		20:01
*** hardaker has quit IRC		20:03
*** BCMM_ has quit IRC		20:05
*** toniher has quit IRC		20:05
*** merlin_1991 has quit IRC		20:07
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		20:07
*** rcg has joined #maemo		20:10
*** deegee__ has quit IRC		20:11
*** nicu has quit IRC		20:11
*** Dado777 has quit IRC		20:12
*** Per_n900 has joined #maemo		20:13
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC		20:19
*** Sicelo has joined #maemo		20:20
*** lucent_ has joined #maemo		20:21
*** _berto_ has quit IRC		20:23
*** Flipi\|BNC is now known as Flipi		20:24
*** chx has quit IRC		20:24
*** moshee has quit IRC		20:25
*** mc_teo has joined #maemo		20:25
*** moshee has joined #maemo		20:25
*** moshee has joined #maemo		20:25
*** zap has joined #maemo		20:29
*** ColdFyre has quit IRC		20:34
*** jrocha has joined #maemo		20:35
*** tackat has quit IRC		20:36
*** smhar_ has joined #maemo		20:41
*** chigga has joined #maemo		20:42
*** lucent_ has quit IRC		20:43
*** chx has joined #maemo		20:45
*** moshee has quit IRC		20:46
*** moshee has joined #maemo		20:46
*** moshee has joined #maemo		20:46
*** dneary_ has quit IRC		20:49
*** FredrIQ has quit IRC		20:49
*** Ian-- has quit IRC		20:53
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		20:54
RST38h	Newly relevant for this channel: "Windows Phone 7's copy and paste update now coming in March?"	20:55
pupnik	hah	20:56
*** deegee__ has joined #maemo		20:56
pupnik	did get rather quiet didn't it	20:56
RST38h	Was pretty lively today	20:56
RST38h	also lots of analyst lemmings at #meego providing Nokia with free analyticaladvice	20:56
*** smhar_ has quit IRC		20:58
andre__	hehe, what a perfect wording for this	20:58
*** njsf has quit IRC		21:00
*** willer has quit IRC		21:00
*** vanous has joined #maemo		21:01
ieatlint	nokia's just in a fucked situation... they're screwed with meego, they're screwed with abandoning meego	21:02
pupnik	http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/02/how-one-security-firm-tracked-anonymousand-paid-a-heavy-price.ars	21:02
pupnik	baahaha	21:03
RST38h	Well, they have dug this ditch by themselves	21:03
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: luke-jr, whom-it-may-concern: ISI specs actually mention how to talk GPS and even AGPS to cmt, it's called Modem LCS (Location Server) there. ((actually Mickey found this, so credit goes to him))	21:03
ieatlint	they just better make damn sure if they switch to MS software that it doesn't just die off too	21:03
ieatlint	android is the safer choice :P	21:03
ieatlint	but either way, they're fucking themselves over with qt	21:03
ieatlint	they should've just bought palm last year... webos is at least viable in the short term	21:04
ieatlint	and had a huge dev community	21:04
pupnik	did anyone ever figure out a low-cpu speaker protection thingy?	21:04
*** willer has joined #maemo		21:04
*** willer is now known as willer_		21:04
DocScrutinizer	mickey claims he found quite some non-specs conforming implementation details in N900 RAPUYAMA BB5 cmt, so while the LCS cmds might be ok, the data structures might differ and need some work	21:04
*** baraujo_ has joined #maemo		21:05
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: pretty sure there were no such specs when I reverse engineered it	21:05
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: I guess mickey is using latest release, which iirc is of january	21:05
RST38h	pupnik: The Barr guy did notgetthe point? =)	21:06
GeneralAntilles	How the hell do I get an FLV out of a Flip video share. . . .	21:06
*** baraujo has quit IRC		21:06
kwtm	ieatlint: Sounds like you're saying that my N900 might be the last of a breed, and don't expect any new wonders from Nokia any time soon?	21:06
*** njsf has joined #maemo		21:06
ieatlint	kwtm: wtf do i know, i'm just a random dude on irc..	21:06
RST38h	ieatlint: Thank you for providing your strategic advice to Nokia!	21:07
ieatlint	reuters says the n9 has been cancelled... but they themselves call it rumour, citing two unnamed nokia sources	21:07
ieatlint	RST38h: np	21:07
kwtm	ieatlint: Some random dudes on irc are worth paying attention to. :)	21:07
ieatlint	the two nokia employees standing 10 feet from me are talking about selling stock	21:07
*** baraujo_ is now known as baraujo		21:07
*** baraujo has quit IRC		21:07
ieatlint	actually, i lied, they're sitting	21:07
*** baraujo has joined #maemo		21:08
kwtm	ieatlint: Good F Grief, I better treat the keyboard and the USB port on my N900 very nicely if I want it to last the next 10 years before someone else comes out with a Linux phone...	21:08
RST38h	tell us when they lie down and take the pills	21:08
SpeedEvil	Woo!	21:08
SpeedEvil	Let us all buy the stock, and MAKE them do harmattan properly!	21:08
pupnik	kwtm: i wore through my keyboard in 5 months :)	21:08
ieatlint	kwtm: don't worry, the cpu and battery will die well before the keyboard	21:08
*** willer_ has quit IRC		21:08
RST38h	In the meanwhile, http://godheadv.blogspot.com/2010/04/abandoned-on-everest.html	21:08
ieatlint	oh, and the usb connector :P	21:08
alterego	They said a candidate prototype that was going to be the N9 got scrapped	21:09
alterego	Not exactly the same thing.	21:09
SpeedEvil	40 billion / 445 people = 90 million or so.	21:09
SpeedEvil	I'm in - anyone else?	21:09
ieatlint	alterego: heh, if it just happened, then it is	21:09
*** z4chh has joined #maemo		21:09
ieatlint	the n9 will be something else, and delayed by another 6+ months	21:09
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: g2, i_modem_lcs_fp.pdf	21:09
*** baraujo has quit IRC		21:09
ieatlint	and if nokia can't get a meego phone out until the end of the year.... heh	21:10
*** willer has joined #maemo		21:10
*** baraujo has joined #maemo		21:10
kwtm	ieatlint: I don't get Nokia ... is this an internal power struggle? "Let's make Maemo!" "No, let	21:10
kwtm	ieatlint: I don't get Nokia ... is this an internal power struggle? "Let's make Maemo!" "No, let's make Meego!" "No, the N9 will be a Symbian based phone!" Geez....	21:10
ieatlint	kwtm: if the rumours prove true, it's more a shakeup it seems... hire an outsider CEO who changes a bunch of shit	21:11
ieatlint	lest they go the way of yahoo..	21:11
pupnik	cool RST38h	21:11
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: <mickey\|bbl> i have found significant differences between the documented subsystems and the actual implementation in N900 <mickey\|bbl> so although the basic interaction is documented, the data structure might need work	21:11
RST38h	pupnik: I knew you would like that morbid crap	21:11
*** kthomas_vh_ has joined #maemo		21:11
pupnik	i didn't know it was so deadly	21:12
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		21:12
ieatlint	i know that tomorrow's announcement will not include an abandonment of qt at least	21:12
SpeedEvil	I bet it's an announcement that they are going to be releasing some W7 models.	21:13
ieatlint	is there any reason to believe W7 other than the ceo is from MS?	21:13
SpeedEvil	I will in fact go so far as to put down as a bet this 38g lump of corned beef.	21:13
piggz	so, has everyone given up hope without waiting for th announcement?	21:14
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		21:14
ieatlint	i'll bet this half cup of coffee that part the announcement will be related to the n8	21:14
SpeedEvil	It's unlikely to be Ios, android IMO.	21:14
ieatlint	definitely not iphone... apple would never do that	21:14
*** willer has quit IRC		21:15
SpeedEvil	http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5131/cameras/72157622207392889_graph_model_users_afa437ff78.png	21:15
* SpeedEvil sighs.		21:15
ieatlint	windows 7 is .net based, unproven, requires licencing, has tiny app base .... android is java based (not any better, maybe worse), free licencing, large app base, and is a word that in itself is a selling point...	21:16
ieatlint	so yeah, based on nokia's past decisions, it'll be the less viable option	21:16
*** GNUtoo\|laptop has joined #maemo		21:16
SpeedEvil	I think they're going to try to use W7 as a fill-in till meego is ready.	21:16
ieatlint	(that is, welcome back Qtopia!)	21:16
Arkenoi	i've heared some guys ported dalvik to meego, so why abandon it at all to run andrioid software if you can use best of both worlds?	21:17
SpeedEvil	I'm of course utterly pulling this out of my arse.	21:17
*** FredrIQ has joined #maemo		21:17
Arkenoi	nokia could just buy out that company	21:17
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: (40 billion) wait until tomorrow, will get muuuuch cheaper :-P	21:17
MohammadAG	sometimes, you just have to move on	21:17
MohammadAG	bought my dad an iPhone 4	21:17
wmarone	SpeedEvil: you are now qualified to be a financial analyst	21:17
SpeedEvil	wmarone: Well - I just spent half an hour looking through regulations, in order to find out that the government had not been mis-rounding a payment to me down by 10p.	21:18
SpeedEvil	Which is one of the less productive things I've done today.	21:18
ieatlint	could be worse... i've been sitting in a qscript presentation for the last hour	21:19
SpeedEvil	Indeed.	21:19
* ieatlint is in a "cover 90% of qt" session this week		21:20
ieatlint	8h/day of slides :(	21:20
*** jrocha has quit IRC		21:20
DocScrutinizer	cough	21:20
DocScrutinizer	ieatlint: condolences - qt is going to die when Nokia is switching to redmonf universe :-P	21:21
RST38h	they will port qt to .net!	21:21
DocScrutinizer	err, qscript, wait What?	21:21
DocScrutinizer	WTF qscript?	21:21
ieatlint	soon i'll be like one of those guys who says "i know fortran" or "i know cobol"	21:21
MohammadAG	when's MWC again?	21:22
ieatlint	DocScrutinizer: hence the reason i'm not paying attention right now	21:22
ieatlint	MohammadAG: monday	21:22
DocScrutinizer	ieatlint: don't call names on me, I LOVE COBOL	21:22
ieatlint	DocScrutinizer: and it's so useful...	21:22
ieatlint	it's like me knowing a bit of EFL... "that's cool .. i guess"	21:22
DocScrutinizer	sure, check the SORT command with all its parameters. Unique in whole IT	21:23
GAN900	MohammadAG, 13/14th	21:23
* RST38h likes the positive mood at this channel		21:23
DocScrutinizer	I bet there's no other coding lang that can sortmerge 2 sets of 5 trillion records each, in less lines of sourcecode and better optimized	21:24
*** febb has joined #maemo		21:24
kwtm	ieatlint: What do you do? Are you at Nokia? Wait, no you're at a conference --that's why there are two Nokia bodies near you. Do you make software for a living, then?	21:24
GAN900	My September proto is now getting cellular interference on its own speakers. . . .	21:24
RST38h	If we are lucky, dear punks, Nokia wil produce a handful of WP7 handsets for the US market, they will tank, things will get back to Symbian, Meego in the sky, and loathing at the ground.	21:24
ieatlint	kwtm: i bitch and whine. i'm not at nokia, nor a conference... there happen to be two nokia employees at this session as well. i do software, yes	21:25
javispedro	and if we aren't ?	21:25
RST38h	If we are unlucky, the whole Nokia will tank.	21:25
derf	If we're lucky, we'll all buy Android phones and like it.	21:25
kerio	:(	21:25
kerio	i don't like android!	21:25
pupnik	but i don't like android	21:25
RST38h	derf: I am considering it	21:25
derf	Yes, that's because you're unlucky.	21:25
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: HEH! BUZZ issue - muhahaha, that'S (C) FR	21:25
RST38h	derf: But the thing is surprisingly immature at the closer sight	21:26
derf	RST38h: I am not surprised.	21:26
wmarone	Android: how to sucker people into stopping work on actual open source projects	21:26
RST38h	derf: Did not expect it not to have a decent Xvid player.	21:26
*** habmala has joined #maemo		21:26
RST38h	derf:Still, it is probably Streak2 or something similar for me, eventually	21:27
*** javispedro has quit IRC		21:27
GeneralAntilles	wmarone: that's why Android is so much more evil than iOS can ever be.	21:28
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: +1	21:28
*** SpeedEvil1 has joined #maemo		21:28
derf	GeneralAntilles: Sadly, that's not entirely true.	21:28
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		21:28
*** n900evil has quit IRC		21:29
RST38h	it is disturbing to see you rate software in terms of good and evil...	21:29
derf	There's a whole generation of programmers who _would_ have gone into open source who now think they can "monetize" their work in an App Store.	21:29
RST38h	I mean, it is just a bunch of code...	21:29
RST38h	derf;: and no, can't monetize much via the app store, it is about as solid as "american dream"	21:30
GeneralAntilles	derf: yes, but Android is undermining half the existing open source community.	21:30
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: nah, we're talking ecosystems here, or call it paradigm if you like that better	21:30
derf	RST38h: I know that, and you know that, but they don't.	21:30
RST38h	poor lemmings, they will learn	21:30
derf	But it's training them to think giving away source code is "stupid".	21:31
RST38h	you want their source?	21:31
RST38h	in java, with google extensions?	21:31
derf	I don't want to be doing this forever.	21:31
SpeedEvil1	derf: Arduino will save us!	21:32
derf	There's systems I would never work on, but I'm happy that somebody does.	21:32
derf	Like, anything involving Qt.	21:32
RST38h	what is wrong with qt?	21:32
derf	It's written in C++.	21:32
DocScrutinizer	tbh, all I've seen so far from andridiot was utterly stupid, they have NFC about what'S a proper OS and which implications they run into when messing around with kernel and system libs just for fun. And then they think that's "contributing to FOSS" when they feed back that crap to linux and shove it down the throat of working distros	21:33
RST38h	hm..ok, what is wrong with C++ then?	21:33
derf	RST38h: We've had this conversation before, and it's besides the point.	21:33
RST38h	(as long as you avoid stl, exceptions and most teplates)	21:33
RST38h	derf: Yea	21:33
RST38h	derf: But I still fail to see the pointin aversion to C++	21:34
derf	I'm not asking you to.	21:34
derf	I'm asking you to accept that _I_ don't like it.	21:34
RST38h	derf: Except maybe for the fact that you get into a bit of dll hell with it :)	21:34
derf	But that doesn't mean I'm not happy there are open-source C++ projects.	21:34
RST38h	hm, ok	21:35
kwtm	derf: Sorry to drag this out --I myself haven't had this conversation with you before, so I'll ask as an outsider who doesn't know C++: is there something about C++ that would make you suggest that I not learn it, or is it just a personal preference?	21:36
*** dazo is now known as dazo_afk		21:36
*** willer has joined #maemo		21:37
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: the C++ gurus of this world think they are a group of maybe 20 that really master C++	21:37
DocScrutinizer	some of them think C++ is overly sophisticated	21:38
* RST38h is not a C++ guru and so has no problems suggesting to learn C++, just do it cautiously		21:39
DocScrutinizer	recent research seems to indicate C++ doesn't help on productivity or code quality of large projects	21:39
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: Okay ... but is it worth learning even if I don't master it? Of course, this depends on my own personal situation, but in general, for someone who works with FOSS and would like to be able to write small programs quickly, maybe use Qt, is it worth learning?	21:39
derf	kwtm: Nothing personal, but I have better things to do today than rant against C++. Google for logs of this channel if you really care.	21:39
RST38h	As "C++ to C is what lung cancer is to lungs"	21:39
derf	RST38h: Hahaha.	21:39
kwtm	Ah, I see. So, in summary, it is an unnecessary complication to using C to do the same thing.	21:40
*** achipa has joined #maemo		21:40
*** achipa has joined #maemo		21:40
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: definitely yes	21:40
DocScrutinizer	you can't use Qt without basic C++ knowledge	21:40
kwtm	The reason I ask is because I plan to use PyQt to put up some simple GUI scripts, and was wondering if it would be a good investment to learn C++ in order to use Qt to the fullest.	21:40
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: I suspect that my meaning of the phrase "use Qt" is much more liberal than yours. :)	21:41
kwtm	I guess gone are the days when C++ was going to save the world ...	21:41
RST38h	kwtm: When used carefully, C++ will help you better organize your code	21:42
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: do you have link to that spec	21:42
RST38h	kwtm: When used to the full "power", it will blow your brains out	21:43
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: at very least you need a good understanding of OO concepts, no matter if that's C++ or any other OO language. Qt however is genuine C++	21:43
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: isi shit?	21:43
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: Yeah, I think I don't fully get OO yet. I use OO features of Python but I think I'll get laughed out of town if I show my code to anyone.	21:44
jacekowski	yes	21:44
DocScrutinizer	mompls	21:44
kwtm	My own impression of C++ is "it was supposed to be a superset of C but when it compiles my C code it chokes on 'main(int argc, char *argv)' because there's no 'void' in front of 'main()' " and then it went downhill from there.	21:45
*** n900evil has joined #maemo		21:45
RST38h	kwtm: actually, your main()is supposed to return int	21:45
RST38h	when you skip return type, "int" is assumed	21:45
RST38h	but your "char *argv" is incorrect anyway, either in C or in C++	21:46
kwtm	RST38h: Yeah, but I didn't know that when I wrote my C programs, and I just didn't want to bother going back to change everything I had written for the two years previous ... (This was before I started with Linux)	21:46
RST38h	so, maybe you should not blame C++ for your mistakes	21:46
kwtm	RST38h: Well, it was an example of how C++ is much stricter for return values ... I haven't done C programming for decades now, so not surprised that I got it wrong...	21:47
ieatlint	use char **argv, it confuses people who claim to know c/c++ but don't	21:47
RST38h	const char *argv[] is the best option	21:47
RST38h	clearest	21:47
ieatlint	const is a good idea... the notation is otherwise entirely visual...	21:48
ieatlint	although i think argv is actually writable, just a bad idea to alter	21:48
alterego	It is, glib and Qt do it.	21:51
*** lucent_ has joined #maemo		21:52
alterego	and gtk though that's kind of related to glib.	21:52
*** SpeedEvil1 has quit IRC		21:53
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		21:53
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		21:53
*** 77CAAP1M2 has joined #maemo		21:54
ieatlint	in which case you'll get an error/warning specifying const argv and then passing it to gtk/qt	21:54
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: http://www.wirelessmodemapi.com/	21:55
DocScrutinizer	1-Feb-2011 Wireless Modem API Release G2.V2-11W05 available. No changes to G1 API.	21:56
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: ^^^	21:56
*** habmala has quit IRC		22:01
*** rd has joined #maemo		22:03
ieatlint	hmmm, if i can rent a big white bus, i could go drive to one of the google shuttle stops near hear and pick up ~20 employees and drive them somewhere random long before they realize i'm not actually the google shuttle..	22:03
*** svillar has quit IRC		22:05
*** FIQ has left #maemo		22:05
*** ricki8024 has joined #maemo		22:06
*** \w has joined #maemo		22:07
*** \w is now known as FIQ		22:07
*** mthmob has joined #maemo		22:11
*** MadViking has quit IRC		22:12
*** nsuffys has joined #maemo		22:13
*** scoobertron has joined #maemo		22:16
*** kwtm has quit IRC		22:17
*** mthmob has quit IRC		22:17
*** eijk_ has joined #maemo		22:18
*** rd has quit IRC		22:18
*** mthmob has joined #maemo		22:18
*** eijk has quit IRC		22:18
*** marciom has quit IRC		22:19
*** willer has quit IRC		22:19
*** marciom has joined #maemo		22:20
*** mthmob1 has joined #maemo		22:23
*** mthmob1 has quit IRC		22:23
*** mthmob has quit IRC		22:23
*** edisson_ has joined #maemo		22:24
*** mthmob has joined #maemo		22:24
*** edisson_ has quit IRC		22:24
*** mthmob has quit IRC		22:25
*** willer has joined #maemo		22:26
*** willer has quit IRC		22:27
*** willer_ has joined #maemo		22:27
*** larsivi has joined #maemo		22:29
*** schend has joined #maemo		22:31
*** lauri has joined #maemo		22:31
lauri	Hey guys, is Maemo/MeeGo going to participate on GSoC this year?	22:32
*** blue_led has joined #maemo		22:33
blue_led	anyone had compiled fbset ?	22:34
*** klasu___ has joined #maemo		22:36
pupnik	blue_led: there's some interesting low-level capabilities of omap3 that can be exposed to fbset	22:38
pupnik	like a second framebuffer as an overlay running at a different resolution	22:38
*** Ian-- has joined #maemo		22:38
*** me\|kor has joined #maemo		22:39
blue_led	@pupnik : i want to play with fb0 but i don't have fbset . do you have it ?	22:40
ZogG	On #feb11 wear a #MeeGo shirt if you have one. We are #MeeGo and we're proud of our project no matter what happens.	22:40
ZogG	lol	22:40
ZogG	someone is wiiling to sent me meego t-shirt or maemo t-shirt i	22:41
ZogG	ll buy	22:41
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		22:42
pupnik	blue_led: i'm a little too uninformed about all this	22:43
* RST38h will wear the Cthulhu tshirt		22:43
*** jevin has joined #maemo		22:47
pupnik	barr is such a joker, i hate him	22:47
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC		22:47
ieatlint	i'm going to a meego event at nokia's campus tonight... maybe i can find a shirt	22:47
wmarone	see that's the downside to living up in folsom, all the interesting mobile stuff is down in the bay area	22:48
*** lucent_ has quit IRC		22:48
ieatlint	folsom? hmmm... i think i met you at a meego event in sf last september	22:49
wmarone	yeah I was there	22:49
ieatlint	yeah, i was the guy with the n900 and the magnetic stripe card thing..	22:49
wmarone	right, I have your business card	22:49
ieatlint	haha, ok	22:50
ieatlint	hi	22:50
ZogG	wmarone folsom? are you johnny cash?	22:50
wmarone	no, no	22:51
wmarone	but the prison is here in town	22:51
maybeWTF	at least mubarak hasn't yet announced egypt will switch to windows phone 7	22:51
ieatlint	haha	22:51
* ZogG xmms2> Joaquin Phoenix - Folsom Prison Blues ["Walk The Line OST" 2005]		22:51
*** javispedro has joined #maemo		22:51
*** davyg has quit IRC		22:52
ZogG	maybeWTF you are too late he did, but actually it's Windows mobile 6.5	22:52
ZogG	BCMM, setting up funtoo on laptop	22:52
*** messerting has joined #maemo		22:52
ZogG	portage is nicer there	22:52
ZogG	full git thing not like in gentoo or i need to turn it on somewhere?	22:53
*** dos1 has quit IRC		22:53
*** dos1 has joined #maemo		22:53
RST38h	pupnik: Barr is a funny idiot	22:53
RST38h	pupnik: And it looks like Anonymous will have him for dinner	22:54
pupnik	his use of language is incredibly annoying	22:54
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: (re http://www.wirelessmodemapi.com/ ) will registering there make the dl links appear?	22:56
javispedro	or it's just a trap?	22:56
DocScrutinizer	nah it works, though it's a PITA for some reason, like fubar js or sth	22:56
ZogG	where?	22:56
ZogG	lemme see	22:56
ZogG	want to eat!!!	22:57
*** skrullis has joined #maemo		22:57
DocScrutinizer	also I can't find my credentials of last time, So asked for "resend" and waiting since 30min now	22:57
*** mc_teo has quit IRC		22:58
*** piggz has quit IRC		22:59
BCMM	What's the speaker that calls some out of when not in hands-free mode called? Can I make normal sound come out through it?	22:59
DocScrutinizer	earpiece	22:59
DocScrutinizer	?	22:59
*** lmoura_ has quit IRC		23:01
Sc0rpius	how do you get those fancy hostnames here in Freenode?	23:02
Sc0rpius	Signoff: mc_teo (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo/x-951735)	23:02
*** eijk__ has joined #maemo		23:02
*** lizardo has quit IRC		23:02
Sc0rpius	since I come from Efnet/Undernet, I know nothing about this network	23:02
BCMM	Sc0rpius: hostmasks, like mine?	23:02
Sc0rpius	yeah like those	23:02
Sc0rpius	like the one you have	23:02
*** FredrIQ has quit IRC		23:03
skrullis	I have fucked up my n900! I was going to change the big user filesystem from vfat to ext2 and that went okay. Then I changed a bit in /etc/fstab /usr/sbin/mmc-mount and /usr/sbin/osso-mmc-mount.sh. Regrettably, I didn't check these files for syntax error before I rebooted the device. Now it just reboots over and over again when I try to start it... what can I do? Is it possible to start it somehow in a hackable way?	23:03
*** buntfalke has quit IRC		23:03
*** lucent has joined #maemo		23:03
nidO	your easiest option is a reflash	23:04
skrullis	it would be fun to avoid that.	23:05
*** eijk_ has quit IRC		23:05
Sc0rpius	I suppose you DON'T have BackupMenu	23:06
BCMM	Sc0rpius: they're called cloaks; you can ask for an unaffiliated one in #freenode	23:06
Sc0rpius	ok thx BCMM	23:06
*** me\|kor has quit IRC		23:06
BCMM	Sc0rpius: as for project ones like MohammadAG wears, i guess you have to ask the project in question	23:07
Sc0rpius	yeah I might	23:07
Sc0rpius	and I suppose somebody like X-Fade assigns them	23:08
MohammadAG	yes	23:08
MohammadAG	actually, he asks Freenode staff to assign them, he can't assign cloaks	23:08
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: very interesting, nice find!	23:08
Sc0rpius	oh I thought he was an IRC op here	23:08
BCMM	so who gets Maemo cloaks?	23:08
MohammadAG	he's just the channel owners	23:09
*** lardman\|home has joined #maemo		23:09
MohammadAG	owner*	23:09
DocScrutinizer	skrullis: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd	23:09
BCMM	Sc0rpius: cloaks aren't a channel thing, they're network-wide	23:09
MohammadAG	there's a wiki about it	23:09
MohammadAG	Task:IRC_cloaks I think	23:09
MohammadAG	or Task:IRC_Cloaks, idk	23:10
Sc0rpius	exactly, and like I said, I though X-Fade was an IRC op	23:10
Sc0rpius	a Freenode IRC op	23:11
*** n900evil has quit IRC		23:11
*** Flipi is now known as Flipi\|BNC		23:12
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		23:12
*** yanu has quit IRC		23:12
MohammadAG	nah	23:12
*** yanu has joined #maemo		23:12
*** yanu has joined #maemo		23:12
MohammadAG	he owns the channel and has it registered on Freenode so we can get cloaks	23:12
skrullis	DocScrutinizer: thanks man, exactly what I need	23:13
lardman\|home	hmm, /me now remembers why -testing is so bad	23:13
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo		23:14
*** mardi has joined #maemo		23:14
DocScrutinizer	getting a unaffiliated cloak is much more painless.	23:15
Sc0rpius	I suppose...	23:16
DocScrutinizer	as usually you need freenode-staff, group-owner, and the user receiving cloak, all being online and available at same time	23:16
Sc0rpius	http://drippler.com/nokia_n900/nokia-kills-first-meego-phone-windowsandroid-phone-now-certain/?utm_source=wordtwit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wordtwit	23:17
Sc0rpius	I should have pasted the source	23:17
Sc0rpius	http://www.maemonokian900.com/nokia-n900-news/nokia-kills-first-meego-phone-windowsandroid-phone-now-certain/	23:17
Sc0rpius	so no MeeGo?	23:17
*** setanta has quit IRC		23:18
Sc0rpius	I'll stick with Maemo until my grandchildren can use it	23:18
LjL	what's a good PIM suite, ideally with fancy home applets, for OS2008?	23:18
lardman\|home	what are these so called sources?	23:18
Sc0rpius	yeah well i received the link via twitter and now I realize those "sources" suck	23:19
Sc0rpius	but anyway everybody knew this was gonna happen	23:19
*** marciom has quit IRC		23:19
Dhraakellian	it's been all around the (micro)blogosphere for the past few days	23:20
Sc0rpius	it seems they are gonna prefer Windows Mobile before Android	23:20
*** jhb has joined #maemo		23:20
Sc0rpius	I would too.	23:20
Dhraakellian	my personal (biased?) opinion is that it'd be even more stupid than FOX cancelling Firefly	23:20
Sc0rpius	or Activision cancelling Guitar Hero :(	23:21
Dhraakellian	I don't want an android phone	23:21
FireFly	Heh	23:21
Dhraakellian	not quite so much as I don't want a WP7 phone	23:21
ieatlint	or nbc cancelling star trek?	23:21
FireFly	The TV show kind of highlights usually doesn't occur in here...	23:21
FireFly	nick highlights, that is	23:21
Sc0rpius	I don't want an Android phone either, Android is very pretty, the fonts, animations, it's beautiful, but it sucks that you run out of battery in like 4 hours	23:21
Dhraakellian	FireFly: You can't take the Source from me	23:21
pupnik	i think fox cancelled it because it was too 'rebel' oriented	23:21
Sc0rpius	and the same issue with everybody: no real multitasking	23:22
Dhraakellian	meh.	23:22
*** NGNUton-BC has joined #maemo		23:22
Dhraakellian	the main reason I don't want an Android phone is that I want at least one major mode of communication that isn't tied to Google in the slightest	23:22
ieatlint	Sc0rpius: i find it funny you're in #maemo and crticising the battery life of other devices	23:22
Sc0rpius	hey, I get at least 2 days with my N900	23:22
jacekowski	well, n900 isn't as bad as some other devices	23:22
Sc0rpius	with 3G/Wifi use	23:22
Dhraakellian	I already have email and IM through them. I'd rather not have my phone with them	23:22
ieatlint	i get 8-12h, depending on my use	23:23
*** 84XABP5K7 has joined #maemo		23:23
Sc0rpius	try a Motorola Droid to see how much you can get	23:23
Dhraakellian	(and, no, my ham radio doesn't count)	23:23
*** 84XABP5K7 is now known as Extends		23:23
ieatlint	i know the nexus s gets similar life, maybe better	23:23
* lardman\|home wonders why "Programming Massively Parallel Processors" doesn't bother to mention texture memory		23:23
ieatlint	my old g1 got similar too	23:23
Dhraakellian	I still just charge every night, need it or not	23:23
Sc0rpius	that's wise	23:23
Dhraakellian	since I probably would need it the next day if I didn't	23:23
Sc0rpius	you'll never know what could happen tomorrow	23:23
wmarone	lardman\|home: is it GPU targeted, or massive, multi-CPU?	23:23
Dhraakellian	yarr	23:24
Dhraakellian	and LiIon batteries don't mind partial discharg	23:24
Dhraakellian	e	23:24
lardman\|home	wmarone: GPU targetted, and mainly CUDA at that	23:24
wmarone	weird	23:24
lardman\|home	yeah	23:24
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC		23:24
lardman\|home	perhaps it was based on an earlier version before texture memory was accessible?	23:24
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		23:25
wmarone	was there a version of CUDA that didn't give access to the texture memory?	23:25
*** habmala has joined #maemo		23:25
wmarone	lack of access would seem wasteful	23:25
*** rblank has joined #maemo		23:25
lardman\|home	no idea	23:25
derf	Texture memory has always been accessible.	23:25
lardman\|home	hmm, odd that that book doesn't mention it then	23:26
derf	It's no different from regular memory. The only thing that changes is how you access it.	23:26
lardman\|home	ok, so it;s just constant memory?	23:26
derf	No, not at all.	23:26
*** ShadSEC has quit IRC		23:27
lardman\|home	"constant memory"?	23:27
ieatlint	heh, if nokia really is axing meego, we can expect to see a LOT of layoffs on the horizon	23:27
ieatlint	not just nokia too..	23:27
lardman\|home	in the CUDA lino	23:27
lardman\|home	linguo	23:27
derf	lardman\|home: I know what constant memory is, and it's not that.	23:27
lardman\|home	ok	23:27
*** ShadSEC has joined #maemo		23:28
*** baraujo has quit IRC		23:28
derf	You can only read it through the shader units, and you can't write to it directly. But you can copy the contents of a linear array into it.	23:28
derf	(the reason being that it's not laid out linearly in memory, and exactly _how_ it's laid out was supposed to be this big proprietary secret they didn't want to expose)	23:28
* lardman\|home is more abstracted than that		23:29
derf	Well, these details show up in the CUDA API.	23:29
lardman\|home	didn't know you could write it to from the device though	23:29
lardman\|home	but I'm only half way through the CUDA by example book, which does mention texture memory	23:30
derf	It's actually really damn annoying. Algorithms which are fast in OpenGL can't be implemented in CUDA in the same way, because you can't write to textures directly.	23:30
*** messerting has quit IRC		23:30
derf	I mean, I can understand not supporting scattered writes for textures, but they don't support direct writes at all.	23:30
derf	Just copying of whole arrays.	23:31
*** chenca has quit IRC		23:32
lardman\|home	yet one can do that in OpenGL?	23:32
*** Venemo has joined #maemo		23:33
MohammadAG	crashanddie, just finished black ops, lmfao @ final scene after credits	23:33
* lardman\|home kind of lost the will in black ops after a couple of levels		23:34
Venemo	hey MohammadAG :)	23:34
MohammadAG	hey Venemo	23:34
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo		23:34
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo		23:34
LjL	what should i do to make OS2008's player support Ogg Vorbis? i've installed 'ogg-support', but my files still aren't showing up in the library...	23:34
MohammadAG	lardman\|home, story's ending's good	23:34
lardman\|home	MohammadAG: It chopped and changed too much for my liking, but I'm sure I'll get bored enough one day to finish it	23:36
*** luke-jr has quit IRC		23:36
*** luke-jr has joined #maemo		23:36
MohammadAG	lardman\|home, thought as much at first, but I like to finish all games I get	23:36
derf	lardman\|home: In a limited fashion. E.g., you can run a fragment shader "for all texels", and the return value from each instance gets written to that texel.	23:36
lardman\|home	derf: interesting	23:37
derf	You can also do multi-texture outputs, where you return several values, and each one gets written to a different texture.	23:37
lardman\|home	MohammadAG: yeah but the ~£25 i pay for a game doens't commit me to do something that I don't find fun	23:37
lardman\|home	derf: I'm doing heat simulation, so no need for that :)	23:38
derf	What you can't do is have a single program write more than one value to the _same_ texture, or figure out where you're going to write to after you run the program.	23:38
derf	Right, for heat simulation you shouldn't have to get to fancy.	23:39
derf	*too	23:39
lardman\|home	ah, well is that a limitation caused by thread consistency, or whatever it would be called?	23:39
lardman\|home	to avoid writing more than one value to the same location?	23:39
derf	Well, worse than that.	23:39
derf	Texture memory is organized into 2D blocks, and loaded into and out of cache in those blocks.	23:40
derf	On NVIDIA cards these are 8x8 (this is one of their big proprietary secrets).	23:40
derf	So if you want to write to a pixel, you have to load the whole 8x8 block in, update the pixel, and then flush it out (this is what the hardware does... this doesn't show up in the API anywhere).	23:40
derf	That is, that's what you _would_ do if scattered writes were supported.	23:41
lardman\|home	but you can't really support scattered writes from a kernel can you anyway?	23:41
*** mardi has quit IRC		23:41
derf	What it actually does is runs the 64 instances of your program for the 8x8 block, collects all the return values in cache, and replaces the whole block in main memory at once.	23:41
*** briglia has quit IRC		23:42
derf	lardman\|home: For ordinary global memory, yes you can.	23:42
derf	You can write wherever you want.	23:42
lardman\|home	mutexes?	23:42
derf	Well, you have to make sure they don't conflict.	23:42
derf	I.e., you could make a program that only updated the even pixels.	23:42
derf	There's a limited set of atomic primitives.	23:43
*** jhb has quit IRC		23:43
derf	You can synchronize threads within a single warp, but that's about.	23:43
skrullis	DocScrutinizer: I followed the initrd rescue guide you sent a link about. the rescue mode commands seem to work but I don't see anything on the display. Have you had this problem?	23:43
derf	*about it.	23:43
lardman\|home	so they've simly assumed you won;t want to do that then	23:43
*** smhar has joined #maemo		23:43
derf	Well, you won't.	23:44
lardman\|home	warp or is it a block?	23:44
lardman\|home	the latter I think	23:44
DocScrutinizer	skrullis: I never used that	23:44
*** Chiku\|dc has quit IRC		23:44
lardman\|home	warp is memory access stuff iirc	23:44
derf	This _is_ memory access stuff.	23:44
skrullis	DocScrutinizer: ok..	23:44
derf	But I don't actually know on current cards.	23:44
*** Chiku\|dc has joined #maemo		23:44
*** Chiku\|dc has joined #maemo		23:44
derf	Look it up. Don't trust me.	23:44
derf	Anyway, the truth is, you _won't_ want to do that.	23:45
*** Chiku has quit IRC		23:45
derf	Because accessing individual memory locations is terribly slow.	23:45
*** Chiku has joined #maemo		23:45
*** Chiku has joined #maemo		23:45
*** BCMM_ has joined #maemo		23:45
derf	Like 400-600 cycles for a read from global memory.	23:45
*** Chiku\|dc has quit IRC		23:45
*** ricki8024 has quit IRC		23:45
*** Chiku has quit IRC		23:46
lardman\|home	no, I meant a warp is 16 threads, a block is 32? and it's per-block synchronisation isn't it?	23:46
derf	If things are aligned properly, and you make all the threads in a warp access _consecutive_ memory locations, they can all do the access at once.	23:46
*** Chiku has joined #maemo		23:46
*** Chiku has joined #maemo		23:46
*** netrunner_ has joined #maemo		23:46
lardman\|home	yes, that book stresses that, which is good	23:46
*** FIQ\|n900 has quit IRC		23:47
derf	So: writing to 8 even pixels == 8 memory accesses.	23:47
lardman\|home	goes into quite a bit of detail of trading off threads with registers vs memory vs #SMs, etc., etc	23:47
*** bjv has joined #maemo		23:47
derf	Reading in 16 pixles, updating the even ones, and writing 16 back out: 2 memory accesses.	23:47
derf	(reads and writes aren't equal, but let's pretend for the moment)	23:48
lardman\|home	there's a 2nd pass tpop though assuming you use an if{} in there	23:48
lardman\|home	s/tpop/too	23:48
derf	Not sure what you mean by that.	23:49
lardman\|home	apparently the kernel must be run N times per warp depending on the number of paths in the code	23:50
derf	Not really.	23:50
derf	How would it know, in advance?	23:50
derf	What actually happens is it runs all the paths on all the threads.	23:51
*** OkropNick has quit IRC		23:51
derf	But the ones not actually "on" that path don't write back the results of whatever the operation was.	23:51
derf	I.e., if you have an if(){...} else{...}, everyone will run the if, then everyone will run the else.	23:52
*** VanDamas has joined #maemo		23:52
derf	But the ones that are supposed to go in the else branch will convert everything to nops while the if is being run.	23:52
derf	And vice-versa while the else is being run.	23:53
derf	And if everyone takes the _same_ branch, then it doesn't have to run the other one at all.	23:53
lardman\|home	sure, but you still get a 2 run penalty	23:53
derf	Well, if you just have an if(){...}, then it still only gets run once.	23:53
lardman\|home	yeah, so that depends how you structure your code so that singe warps can take the same path	23:53
derf	But, e.g., if it's an if(even pixel), then half the threads do something, and the other half sit idle.	23:54
*** BCMM has quit IRC		23:54
lardman\|home	yes, apologies, I should have added an else (if)	23:54
lardman\|home	yeah ok	23:54
lardman\|home	looks quite interesting working out the trade offs to get stuff working as quickly as possible	23:55
lardman\|home	otoh, not sure how easy it is to write code that will scale to newer processors, which is part of the goal of CUDA	23:56
* VanDamas http://hotour.ucoz.com Visit my site to download my all Hot videos!		23:56
*** VanDamas has quit IRC		23:56
lardman\|home	scale -> scale to generate code that is optimum for the # of register memories, constant memory, etc., etc	23:56
derf	Yeah, that is sort of why I gave up on it.	23:57
derf	It's "neat", but the original CUDA is a toy.	23:57
lardman\|home	well assuming it will work for my simulations then "neat" is good enough :)	23:58
derf	You can make one-off things that run with it, but stuff like "constant memory gets reserved for the life of the application" are _terrible_ from a real software engineering perspective.	23:58
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo		23:58
derf	Yeah. If you just care about the output, and aren't actually shipping this to anyone in a product, then it works.	23:59
*** NIN101 has quit IRC		23:59
derf	As I said, "one-off" things.	23:59
lardman\|home	yeah, reading about the multiple constraints and variable speedups sounds like a bugger to optimise properly	23:59
lardman\|home	ack	23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!