IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-02-09

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Venemocould someone please help me? here is my failed build log: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/puzzle-master_1.1.0/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt and my control file: http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master/blobs/master/debian/control00:19
Venemoseems that it didn't find any packages marked with | maemo-version (>=5.0)00:19
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villagerit's not that it didn't find them... it's that because of your | maemo-version (>= 5.0), it didn't look for them because the dependency was already satisfied00:24
Venemovillager: so it should be maemo-version (< 5.0)00:25
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villagerwould it build on previous maemo versions without those deps? doubtful, so why have that at all?00:25
Venemovillager: (I want it to work for Diablo too, and I only want those dependencies under fremantle)00:25
Venemovillager: relevant code is #ifdef'd00:26
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villagerokay, then < 5.0 would probably work00:26
Venemothank you villager00:28
Venemovillager: do similar names exist for Debian or Ubuntu? eg. debian-version or ubuntu-version?00:29
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Per_n900Is there a terminalwidget for the desktop? Like a fully functional one if you know what I mean?00:32
villagerideally not, it's not a very clean way to do things, after all... (though there's the base-files package)... if you need to, usually you can find some related package that you can use00:32
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BCMMPer_n900: i don't think desktop widgets accept keyboard focus00:36
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_nicolai_I cloned the notification light control panel applet with proper layout for portrait mode00:38
Per_n900BCMM: too bad, I would have liked a real terminal pinned to the desktop.00:38
_nicolai_someone want to put this in CSSU git?00:38
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trumeesome flash videos dont play on the device like this one, http://www.ted.com/talks/nigel_marsh_how_to_make_work_life_balance_work.html00:42
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Per_n900I keep wishing I had a window manager running that would allow me to resize and move windows, but it seems nobody else wants this :)00:43
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BCMMis it possible to tweak notification vibration per-event (it is not possible in the "Profiles" Settings applet)00:43
BCMMspecifically, i do not want it to vibrate for new IMs00:43
nox-trumee, i havent checked but maybe thats bc n900 still has flash 9...00:43
trumeenox-, i have flashtweaker00:43
trumeenox-, but it you could check that url i will be grateful00:44
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VenemoBCMM: they can, but they aren't recommended to00:44
Venemovillager: thanks, the package now builds correctly00:44
trumeenox-, i dont want to attribute it to my recent power kernel install00:44
BCMMVenemo: sorry, i don't quite understand...00:45
nox-hm i have power kernel too, maybe i can check it on a x86 flash9 later00:45
trumeenox-, so it doesnt work for you too?00:45
VenemoBCMM: "i don't think desktop widgets accept keyboard focus" ---> they can. take sticky notes as an example00:46
nox-sec let me try on n900 first00:46
trumeeok00:46
VenemoBCMM: they just don't do so by default.00:46
BCMMVenemo: oh, sorry, thought it was about vibration00:46
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BCMMhang on, there's a way to edit vibration patterns, right?00:46
trumeeBCMM, mce.ini?00:47
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BCMMprobably. is there such a thing as a "null" vibration pattern?00:47
nox-trumee, yeah n900 says my flash is too old00:48
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trumeenox-, do you have flashtweaker installed?00:48
nox-no00:48
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Per_n900Venemo: So then a terminalwidget should be possible? Maybe that would be an excellent start for me to learn some programming.00:48
nox-trumee, i see a download link there tho so maybe mplayer etc will play that file then?00:49
trumeenox-, ah, with flashtweaker there is no warning at all. and the video also doesnt appear00:49
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BCMMall flashtweaker does is make an applet "try anyway" if it thinks it needs flash 1000:49
VenemoPer_n900: it's possible, but noone has done it yet.00:49
VenemoPer_n900: why not just use the terminal?00:49
BCMMa lot of the time, the authors were stupid and it actually works (see Facebook videos)00:50
trumeenox-, probably, but i wasnt keen on watching the video. i have seen flash failing on some websites, so this explains it00:50
nox-ah ok00:50
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trumeenox-, maybe i should bump up the flash version number00:50
pupniki'd like to see user-mode-android running on meego00:50
BCMMhowever, in the case that it actually did need flash 10, failing without a proper error is what you'd expect00:50
BCMM(since you're basically suppressing the mechanism that would say "this won't work on your system")00:51
trumeeBCMM, *nod*00:51
nox-yeah00:51
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Per_n900Venemo: I am funny that way :) That would allow me to have several terminals open and see the output of all of them at the same time. Basically, I would like a window manager that would be more desktop like but thats another story...00:52
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_nicolai_I am not that familiar with git, what is necessary to make a package for maemos CSSU?00:53
trumeeit would have been useful if there was some sort of flash flv downloader in microb.00:53
VenemoPer_n900: easy debian?00:53
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Per_n900Venemo: yes I suppose I could just use that. It just seems such a shame with this powerfull device to not bee able to for instance resize a browserwindow with youtube while I ssh on the other half of the screen. But I guess thats just me.00:57
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VenemoPer_n900: it would be slow as hell00:57
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trumeenox-, i have another strange issue. On a certain webpage, microb  doesnt recognise an input box but desktop firefox does. want to test that?00:58
nox-oh hm i think ive seen something like that before too...00:58
Per_n900Maybe, but it does render flashmovies and terminal perfectly acceptable in application switcher :)00:59
trumeenox-, Top right search input box, http://www.vbspu.ac.in/component/search00:59
trumeenox-, The input box is not clickable at all whereas in firefox it works fine01:00
nox-might be a js issue, ff with noscript has the same problem01:00
trumeenox-, ah, i see01:00
_nicolai_good night01:02
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dado777|2hi people, good nights01:11
dado777|2some expert about openvpn ?01:11
dado777|2i have blind sockets fail01:11
LjLis my N810's backlight supposed to react to light sensor value changes? it doesn't seem to01:11
dado777|2i donw know lili , i m user n90001:12
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VenemoLjL: it should be, yes01:17
VenemoLjL: cover the light sensor and then see the light sensor under a direct light, then you should see the difference01:17
LjLVenemo: thing is i don't. i have installed advanced-backlight earlier (removed now), i guess maybe that's the cause... i was mainly wondering because i don't know how automatic backlight interfaces with the manual backlight setting in the status bar01:19
VenemoLjL: well I only had an N810 for a couple of months and already gave it back, but the ambient light sensor definitely worked01:20
LjLVenemo: (by the way, i should probably have got an Archos 5 :P not saying the N810 is bad but i do have a feeling Android is way more intuitive for average people. oh well, maybe next person's birthday)01:21
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VenemoLjL: I don't like android... :P01:21
VenemoLjL: before giving it to her, reflash to latest firmware and also install the community SSU01:22
dado777|2Venemo you know openvpn ? i have problems to connect01:22
Venemodado777|2: sorry I've never used openvpn01:22
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LjLVenemo: i believe it's already got the latest firmware, 5.2-something. what is the community SSU?01:23
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VenemoLjL: well reflashing helps to clean it up and fix software problems, that's why I recommend it01:24
LjLi see01:24
VenemoLjL: http://wiki.maemo.org/Diablo_Community_Project01:24
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LjLoh yummy01:26
LjLoh it includes screen rotation, that's something i wanted01:26
VenemoLjL: I have not tested it really01:27
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VenemoLjL: not every app supports auto rotation. in fact, few of them do.01:29
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maybeArghhttp://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin/01:31
maybeArghomg the sky is falling etc01:31
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Loveable_rouge im using xchat does anybody know command to stop the notifcations of people joing01:35
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VenemomaybeArgh: lol.01:38
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VenemomaybeArgh: "The first iPhone shipped in 2007, and we still don't have a product that is close to their experience." ---> I think Maemo5 is already vastly superior...01:39
SpeedEvilIn some ways, yes.01:39
Per_n900maybeArgh, if nokia adopts windows phone 7 this n900 was the last product I will ever buy from nokia. Same with android, it sucks as bad as winphone7.01:40
SpeedEvilFor .1-10% of customers.01:40
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Loveable_rouge im using xchat does anybody know command to stop the notifcations of people joining , takes up all the screen01:40
* SpeedEvil points to the somewhat depressing graph on http://www.flickr.com/cameras/nokia/n900/01:40
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Loveable_rouge im using xchat does anybody know command to stop the notifcations of people joining , takes up all the screen01:41
VenemoLoveable_rouge: we read your message the first time01:41
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VenemoLoveable_rouge: I don't use xchat therefore I dunno how to01:41
VenemoPer_n900: agreed01:41
VenemoPer_n900: win phone 7 has a very ugly UI01:41
VenemoPer_n900: and android is just crap01:42
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trumeedado777|2, You probably want to check #openvpn channel01:43
makulkarhow to hide a window coming in task switcher or application grid01:43
makulkar* opened apps01:43
trumeeLoveable_rouge, i would like to do that too.01:43
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Per_n900Venemo, yes it is. I instinctively hate everything that needs to be rooted to be usable.01:44
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Loveable_rougetrumee , some1 did tell me code but can remember now !! aaahhhh01:45
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VenemoPer_n900: the problem with android is that the world's most evil company is behind it.01:45
trumeeLoveable_rouge, /SET irc_conf_mode 101:46
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dado777|2know nice client irc ?01:47
dado777|2not like xchat es to hard to read the channels and querys01:47
Loveable_rougeXchat is good01:47
dado777|2is hard to read01:47
VenemoI prefer Konversation01:47
Per_n900Venemo, I know. Google, NSA... No big difference.01:47
Loveable_rouge@trume thanks a bunch01:48
trumeedado777|2, increase font size in preferences01:48
VenemoPer_n900: anyway I can understand the article and also their viewpoint01:48
SpeedEvildado777|2: google. http://forum.xchat.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=341401:48
trumeeLoveable_rouge, np.01:48
VenemoPer_n900: their management screwed it up with their own platforms so much.01:48
dado777|2is ok, i try increase front size01:49
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VenemoPer_n900: with some more effort, they could have made fremantle the best platform out there01:51
SpeedEvilOr push harmattan to be less ambitious and quicker.01:52
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Per_n900Venemo, I would say it already is, but I guess many would not agree.01:52
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SpeedEvilAccept that most apps may be GTK/hildon based, and Qt is not mandatory01:52
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VenemoPer_n900: well there are many things in the UX that would need polishing01:53
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Per_n900Venemo, sure. Its not perfect. I had an iphone before i got this n900, and I found that completely useless despite its well polished UX. The only thing that really bothers me with the n900 is not even related to the UX. Its the position of the chargerport... Its at so the wrong place and in the way when using the device :(01:58
chxdado777|2: i found  communi to work ewll01:58
VenemoPer_n900: :)01:59
BCMMi really need to look for apps more...01:59
BCMMi've been vaguely wondering about mixers and shell scripts and putting the sound from a phone call out over FM01:59
BCMMand then accidentally stumble on a nice GUI that does that already02:00
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alteregoHeh02:00
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Dado7hiii02:05
Dado7Alguien despierto ?Some people live ?02:05
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Venemohello Dado702:10
VenemoDado7: not many, since it's 01:10 AM here02:10
Dado7jajajaj02:10
Dado7i know02:10
Dado7is this time in spain02:10
Dado7venemo i have one fail in my phone.....02:11
VenemoDado7: it's in whole central Europe.02:11
VenemoDado7: what fail is that02:11
Dado7dont read target mmemoryyy02:11
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Dado7i have 4 diferents memory cards02:11
Dado7and dont read02:11
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Dado7i have 16 gi clas 602:12
Dado7and 2 gigas02:12
Venemoand?02:12
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Dado7i try my diferents memory cards and my phone dont reads02:13
Per_n900Venemo: where are you from if you dont mind me asking?02:13
Dado7this cards works in others phones02:13
VenemoPer_n900: I'm from Hungary02:13
Dado7nice womans from your country02:14
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VenemoPer_n900: and you?02:15
Dado7per is sleep02:17
Per_n900Venemo: Sweden, so I atleast do not have to use euro, I wish someone could put and end to the madness of the european union :)02:17
VenemoPer_n900: there is no euro here (yet) either02:18
Dado7kram kram02:18
VenemoPer_n900: what's wrong with the union?02:18
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Per_n900Dado7: Per never sleeps... Haha kram... That is swedish!02:18
Dado7i have exgirlfriend to sweeden02:19
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Dado7i was meet in londom02:19
Per_n900Venemo, they are building what hitler wanted wanted to do but failed. Exactly that.02:19
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VenemoPer_n900: what?02:19
Per_n900Dado7: was she pretty?02:20
Dado7pretty and bastard02:20
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Per_n900Venemo: one world government, one currency, one world central bank etc.02:20
Per_n900The keyboard on the n900 is pretty ok for typing once you get the hang of it :)02:21
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Dado7i m in n900 xchat :D02:22
Per_n900Dado7, you have to pick an ugly one if you dont want her to be a bastard :)02:22
BCMMi reckon typing with two thumbs is about as fast as typing with two index fingers in a full-size keyboard02:22
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BCMM(i mean, like one of those people who works with a computer but never learned to type, not like the typing of somebody who's never used a computer before)02:22
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Dado7jajaja this is the problem.... likes nice and beautys02:23
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VenemoPer_n900: I consider it a good idea.02:26
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Dado7this world is crazy mite02:27
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Per_n900Venemo, I dont know... Most likely it wont work, and will eventually lead to wars anyway. Empires have a 100% failure rate. I especially do not like the part with only one currency that I would be required to use by law. With one world bank and one currency,a handful of people would rule everything and there would ne nothing you culd do about it :)02:31
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VenemoPer_n900: well the EU is about Europe, not about the whole world.02:33
Dado7this remember me a words spanish: ÂżRecuerdas ? Quisimos cambiar el mundo y solo cambiamos nosotros....02:33
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jonwilCan anyone tell me what might be wrong with my code? http://pastebin.com/d3Ep08Es02:35
jonwilAll I get as output when I run my test program is "02:35
jonwil"02:35
jonwil"segmentation fault"02:35
Per_n900Venemo, for now yes, but it is only a part of the whole. There will be the american union with canada mexico america that uses the amero as money when the dollar fails and it soon will, and gradually the different unions will merge. The currency is already in place, the SDR. But this is maemo forum :)02:35
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Per_n900Dado7: ?02:37
Dado7is hard to me translate to english this spanish words, and i write from my cell, cannot translate for you with googlr translate02:38
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Per_n900Dado7: I studied spanish for 3 years, but cannot remeber anything but ordenador :)02:40
Dado7jajaj02:40
Dado7entiendes si te hablo asi ?02:41
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Dado7jajaja02:41
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Dado7i read in forums about memory cards, mayby the problem can resolve with magnent in the tap down02:42
Dado7for can resolve and read the memory card02:43
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Dado7is time to sleep02:56
Dado7good nights people02:56
Dado7see you tomorrow02:57
Dado7bye02:57
lucentbye Dado702:59
lucentI am trying to make a kernel for N900, with Ubuntu x86 host02:59
lucentit's not easy! there are different instructions here or there02:59
VenemoPer_n900: :)02:59
jonwilbah, why wont this code work :(03:00
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lucentjonwil: pastebin? I'm rather good at finding problems03:01
jonwilhttp://pastebin.com/d3Ep08Es03:01
jonwilJust says "Segmentation fault" when I run it on my N90003:01
jonwilgcc -fpic -fPIC -O2 `pkg-config --cflags glib-2.0 gconf-2.0` -I /usr/include/icd/ -o $@ -c $<03:01
jonwilgcc `pkg-config --libs glib-2.0 gconf-2.0` -o $@ $<03:02
jonwilThats the compile options03:02
jonwilfrom my makefile03:02
lucenttry -O0 -g03:02
lucentfor debug, then gdb it03:02
jonwilwhat do I need to do to get GDB going?03:05
lucentoh. sorry I don't know, on the N90003:05
lucentis gdb installed?03:05
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jonwilI dont know how to install GDB on the N90003:05
lucentyes I don't know either how to make that go on the N900 :(03:06
jonwilLets try good old "printf debugging" then03:06
nox-gdb is in tools i think03:07
nox-http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo503:08
lucentthere's so many things in that code to go wrong03:08
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jonwilhmmm well I added a g_print("test 1\n"); line after the GError* err = NULL;03:10
jonwiland its not even getting there03:11
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lucentjonwil: could be buffered03:13
lucentprintf is buffered.03:13
lucenti.e. it does print but never flushes the file descriptor, so you see nothing03:13
nox-you mean stdout isnt line buffered by default on ttys?03:14
nox-well if its that add an fflush(stdout) after the printf03:14
jonwilwell I commented everything out so all I have now is basically this03:15
jonwilhttp://pastebin.com/efq03fRh03:15
jonwiland its still segfaulting03:15
jonwilso I think my compiler options are fubar03:15
jonwilgcc -fpic -fPIC -O2 `pkg-config --cflags glib-2.0 gconf-2.0` -I /usr/include/icd/ -o $@ -c $< is my compile line03:16
jonwilgcc `pkg-config --libs glib-2.0 gconf-2.0` -o $@ $< is the link03:16
jonwilanyone see anything wrong with those?03:16
jonwilI have no idea about the -fpic -fPIC03:16
lucentposition independent code03:16
jonwildo I need those?03:17
lucentum, try -O0 *not* -O203:17
lucent-O0 no optimization03:17
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nox-and -g, and install gdb from tools :)03:17
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jonwilstill segfaulting with -O003:18
nox-oh and you used g_print, no idea how buffering is there03:18
jonwillooks like I got no choice but to try GDB03:18
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lucentjonwil: I see nothing specific that you can't just compile and run it on a laptop host03:18
jonwilexcept that those gconf commands wont return data on anything but a N90003:19
lucentI mean laptop / desktop host ; who uses a desktop anymore? but well I forget maybe some people have real money they can afford a computer ;)03:19
jonwilI have not one but TWO desktops here03:19
jonwilone as my main box03:19
jonwiland the other is my Gentoo box03:19
jonwilfor N900 dev03:19
jonwilmain box runs XP :P03:19
jonwilfor my gaming :P03:19
* SpeedEvil compiles on the n900.03:21
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SpeedEvilIt's faster than my second-to-last laptop03:21
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lolloojonwil, use steam client?03:26
jonwilsteam?03:26
jonwilif you mean the gaming thing then no I dont use it03:26
lollooalright.03:26
lolloosteam is like msn messenger except for gamers.03:27
jonwilI know what it is :)03:27
lollooawesome! visit www.steamcommunity.com/groups/ES4S03:28
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jonwilhmmm, I am following the steps to install GDB, I added the tools repo and ran apt-get update and then apt-get install gdb03:28
jonwilper what it says here03:28
jonwilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Debugging_Guide#Pre-Requisites03:29
jonwilbut apt-get says "Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle-1.3/free/g/gdb/gdb_6.8.50.20090417-0maemo2+0m5_armel.deb  Size mismatch"03:29
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nox-oh03:29
nox-repo fubar'd?03:29
jonwilthe file exists03:29
jonwilhttp://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle-1.3/free/g/gdb/ says it does03:30
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ArGGu^^jonwil try sudo apt-get update03:30
nox-yeah index list different size is what i understand that as03:30
ArGGu^^then try installing it03:30
nox-true03:30
jonwilI am already root03:30
jonwildoing this through ssh03:31
Venemofor anyone who owns an N8x0 and has 5 minutes for me, please see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=93956603:31
jonwilcould I manually download the .deb file to my device and install it that way or would that be bad?03:31
nox-jonwil, its only gdb so worth a try03:32
nox-if it doesnt run can still remove it03:32
jonwilhow do I manually install the package then?03:33
jonwilI have it on my phone03:33
nox-dpkg -i foo.deb03:33
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jonwil"/home/user/lscon": not in executable format: File format not recognized03:34
jonwilThat tells me something03:34
nox-huh03:34
nox-thats the arm deb?03:35
jonwilno, I mean when I run gdb03:35
jonwilon my app03:35
nox-ooh03:35
jonwilso looks like its not compiling properly03:35
jonwilor not transferring to the phone properly03:35
nox-run file on it on the linux box03:35
nox-the build box03:35
nox-maybe its not crosscompiled for arm...03:36
jonwilfile says its "ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped03:36
jonwilwhich looks correct03:36
nox-hm03:36
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nox-does gdb work on other executables?03:37
jonwilaha, somehow my FTP client was tranferring something as ascii not binary03:37
compengiif i connected the phone to a standard usb cable to my laptop, will it start charging?03:38
nox-ooh03:38
lucentcompengi: yes, it should if the laptop is powered03:38
compengioh, that's bad03:38
lucentcompengi: bad?03:38
nox-jonwil, scp also exists :)03:38
jonwilits solved now03:39
nox-:)03:39
compengilucent, yeah, i want to put some files on the phone, but i don't want it to charge03:39
SpeedEvilWhy notr?03:39
lucentcompengi: why don't you want it to charge, I'm afraid to ask03:39
SpeedEvilIn principle, as root on the n900 - stop bme03:39
SpeedEviland then it won't charge03:39
SpeedEvilyou need to start bme afterwards03:40
SpeedEvilor reboot03:40
compengilucent, i don't like to charge my batteries if they are not fully discharged03:40
lucentcompengi: your logic is bad when applied to LiIon batteries03:41
lucentsorry, you are wrong.03:41
SpeedEvilcompengi: that is very bad practice with li-ion.03:41
SpeedEvilcompengi: They dislike being at full charge most.03:41
SpeedEvilAnd then high temperatures.03:41
SpeedEvilAnd only then integral charge/discharge amount.03:42
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compengiwhen the phone goes off, this doesn't mean that the battery is null03:42
SpeedEvilI know. It turns off at 3.185V or so, with BME running. 2.745 without.03:43
SpeedEvilish03:43
SpeedEvilAnd running batteries flat does not help thier lifetimes.03:43
jonwilBINGO, I now have code that prints out the name and type of every registered network connection03:44
lucentI think Li-ion is best kept at 40% - 70% charge ?03:44
lucentjonwil: yay! what was the problem?03:44
nox-ascii ftp :)03:44
jonwilyeah03:44
jonwilits asking for every directory under /system/osso/connectivity/IAP in gconf03:45
SpeedEviljonwil: :)03:45
jonwilthen obtaining the name and type03:45
jonwiland printing them03:45
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jonwilnow I need to take this code and do the hard part (make a control panel applet that displays the WiFi networks in a list and lets you set one as "home" network)03:45
lucentjonwil: or "gconftool-2 -R /system/osso/connectivity/IAP"03:46
lucentbut yeah yours is cleaner03:46
SpeedEvilRandom talk from defcon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htDMu7USsZQ :)03:46
lucentyay SpeedEvil neator03:46
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nox-is it true that u.s. cards still only use magstripes?03:47
SpeedEvilnox-: rthis isn't related to that so much.03:47
SpeedEvilnox-: It's hardware attacks.03:47
nox-ah ok havent watched yet03:47
SpeedEvilAnd remote attacks.03:47
nox-i c03:48
SpeedEvilFor example - a ~3 seconds physical attack that owns the ATM.03:48
nox-haha03:48
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* jonwil wonders if this "always connect to home wireless network if its accessible regardless of what other network you may be connected to" ICD policy plugin is actually of use03:52
SpeedEvilYes.03:53
SpeedEvilthough if it is available may mean polling frequently03:53
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jonwilno, I suspect that ICD gets informed when a new network becomes visible03:54
SpeedEvilThere is a poll time somewhere in settings03:54
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jonwilThe one thing I dont know (and cant test myself) is what happens if you have one wifi network in range (and are connected to it) and then move into range of another WiFi network03:57
jonwiland what calls are made to the policy plugins in that instance03:57
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* nox- is more worried about that powersaving bug that seems to turn off the radio at the `wrong' time and makes it miss beacon frames causing it to send endless poll requests...03:57
SpeedEvilworks for me.03:58
SpeedEvilTo debug that, I suspect you need a protocol analyser, and a copy of the wifi spec.03:58
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SpeedEvilWhich is horrible.03:58
SpeedEvilIt's a maze of crosslinked docs.03:58
nox-yeah thats what i suspect :)03:58
SpeedEvilWith no overall rationale.03:59
SpeedEvilnight103:59
n900evils/1/!/04:00
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nox-good idea04:02
nox-gnite SpeedEvil04:02
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compengiSpeedEvil, i've heard that many times, but after my experience with few old nokia phones and the latest n79 it showed that the battery goes weaker and drops from full to the middle or to empty on the scale if i charge it frequently04:09
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compengiSpeedEvil, my dad has an old nokia 6210i probably, afaik he has a li-ion battery and he uses it for 8 years now. it is still working with same performance as before04:12
compengihe waits till his phones dies and then puts a small bulb to completely discharge it. then charges it. and it works for 8 years now04:14
compengiidk if those devs out there tell lies for companies benefit04:16
compengibut i've seen many people that buy new batteries each year because they don't work anymore04:16
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compengii'm not sure which method is the right one, but apparently what you suggested totally contradicts with dad's use and if that method damages li-ion battery, it won't have last for 8 years, would it?04:20
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paulyhi is there any webkit browser for maemo 5?04:33
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noodles900how do you copy a short piece of text from a webpage?04:55
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rpgdudehow do i connect sixaxis controller to my n900?05:05
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rpgdudenm i found the instruction on the web05:18
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Sazpaimonso guys05:42
SazpaimonAlien Dalvik05:42
Sazpaimonhow awesome is this05:43
pupnik?05:45
pupniksomeone finally did it?05:45
Sazpaimonhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXWEyKjwk2g05:46
Sazpaimonyep05:46
Sazpaimonvideo here shows android apps running on an N90005:46
Sazpaimonseamlessly05:46
Sazpaimonas if they were native05:46
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pupniknice Sazpaimon05:47
Sazpaimonnow there will be absolutely no reason NOT to get an N9(00)05:48
lucentnoodles900: you still around? use "pointer" mode in the microb05:48
lucentdrag stylus from off-screen lower left corner in a right motion onto the screen, and an arrow will appear05:49
lucentselect the arrow to "lock" into that mode05:49
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lucentselect your text, then just sign off of IRC and ignore that I tried to help you, bastard.05:49
SazpaimonI'm still looking to snipe an N900 on ebay05:51
Sazpaimonhttp://cgi.ebay.com/New-Nokia-N900-Unlocked-/280624733194?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item4156899c0a seriously?05:52
SazpaimonCurrent bid:US $0.0105:52
SazpaimonShipping:$530.0005:52
johnxlucent, if I knew anyone hiring for technical documentation writer I'd recommend you in a heartbeat05:53
johnxSazpaimon, $530 is like same-business-day courier service across the country05:53
Sazpaimonmore like same-business-day courier service across the accross the continent05:54
Sazpaimonapparently it's in Lithuania05:54
Sazpaimoni forget, is the N900 global 3G?05:56
johnxyeah05:56
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johnxw/ T-Mobile 3G bands for US/Canada05:57
johnxand when I said across the country, I did kinda mean across the continent I live on :)05:57
Sazpaimonyeah I'm switching to tmo soon05:59
Sazpaimonhate to abandon my E71, but I can't deal with AT&T anymore05:59
Sazpaimonand in philadelphia, tmo's 3G is barely used compared to AT&T05:59
Sazpaimonso I don't have to deal with network saturation05:59
Sazpaimonat&t has better underground coverage though, so there's that06:00
johnxYeah. 3G on T-Mo near Seattle is awesome. I've seen 7Mb/s at my office06:00
johnxIt's all about coverage in your area I guess :)06:01
Ken-YoungIt's pretty good in Boston too.06:01
Sazpaimontmo doesnt have to worry about the iphone saturating their 3G network06:01
johnxThough I live near their HQ building ;)06:01
Sazpaimonmaybe now that they've rebranded their 3G as 4G and are starting to push android phones with "4G" support it may happen soon06:02
Sazpaimonbut for now it's faster than most other companies06:02
johnxit all depends on the area I guess06:03
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Sazpaimonand since tmobile actually has cheaper rates if you get it without a contract (which you have to do if you want an N900), it's cheaper than at&T06:03
Sazpaimonthough you cant compare to at&t now because they dont offer unlimited data, my current unlimited plan ranks in the upper 90s06:04
johnxAnd you used to be able to get a dumbphone data plan for $10/month and use that with the N90006:04
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johnxbut I think they dropped that or something06:04
Sazpaimonyeah06:05
Sazpaimonyou're lucky if you got grandfathered into that i guess06:05
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johnxbummer06:05
johnxI was going to switch to be on a family plan with my wife in a bit, too :|06:05
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Sazpaimoni'd switch to a family plan with my girl, but she's still on contract with AT&T06:06
Sazpaimonshe can break it though, but I dont know if it'd be worth it06:06
SazpaimonI'd be getting the unsubsidized plan, so she'd need to buy a phonje at full price06:06
Sazpaimonshe can use my E71 I guess, but that'd be 2G only on tmobile06:06
Sazpaimonspeaking of their $10 plan, i thik they offered the Nokia 5230 with that06:07
Sazpaimonthe 5230 may be a lower end phone, but it's certainly not a dumbphone06:07
johnxthey offered the TM506 SE phone with it too. That was a rather nice dumbphone. It was great for pairing to my N80006:07
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johnxwell, I could have said: non-android, non-WP7, non-laptop, but I figured dumbphone was shorter to type06:08
Sazpaimonhttp://philadelphia.craigslist.org/mob/2172338275.html06:09
Sazpaimondang06:09
Sazpaimon$400 for an N900?06:09
Sazpaimoni'll stick with ebay06:10
Sazpaimonhttp://philadelphia.craigslist.org/mob/2152784647.html that's interesting06:10
Sazpaimontrading an HD2 for an N900 and not the other way around06:10
johnxIt's funny 'cause it's $350 new on amazon :)06:10
Sazpaimonhttp://newjersey.craigslist.org/mob/2145057435.html06:11
Sazpaimonthis was posted a month ago06:11
Sazpaimontoo good to be true?06:11
doc|homeSazpaimon: I wonder if the hint would be in " this is a steal. "06:12
johnxI think by "this is a steal" he means "I stole it"06:12
Sazpaimonfine with me06:12
doc|homeSazpaimon: ask if he has a receipt06:12
doc|homeSazpaimon: screw that. I don't give money to thieving scum.06:12
Sazpaimoni'm fine with accepting stolen goods as long as it was passed through no more than 4 hands06:12
jonwilAll this "Data Plan" BS in the USA is garbage. Being in Australia, I just get a fixed monthly amount which I get to use for data, calls, SMS, MMS, basically everything except premium calls and special stuff06:12
doc|homeSazpaimon: aaaand that's why phones get stolen in the first place06:13
Sazpaimondoc|home, i live in philadelphia, you get used to it06:13
johnxjonwil, I'd have to run the numbers, but I think moving half a world away might eat into my data plans savings :)06:14
Sazpaimonthing is he lives like06:14
Sazpaimon5 hours by transit away06:14
Sazpaimon3 hours if i take the amtrak06:14
doc|homeSazpaimon: 3 hours x 2 (return journey) plus ticket price plus it being likely stolen = no warranty06:15
doc|homeis it worth it?06:15
Sazpaimonhttp://newjersey.craigslist.org/mob/2159395155.html maybe this would be better06:15
Sazpaimonarea code leads me to believe it's another north jersey entry06:15
jonwilOn the plan I am about to switch to, I pay AU$14.99 and get $300 worth of credit per month06:16
Sazpaimonhttp://philadelphia.craigslist.org/emd/2129242365.html06:16
Sazpaimonthe hell is this?06:16
doc|homespam06:16
jonwilOnly things I cant use it for is international calls/roaming, certain kinds of mobile content (that I dont use), premium rate numbers, some fax stuff and some wierd digital data stuff06:17
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jonwilRegular internet data costs me 0.2c per 10kb out of my cap06:17
Sazpaimon"certain kinds of mobile content"06:17
Sazpaimonwhat is that, do they lock ports?06:17
jonwilno, I am referring to special downloads and upcharges from the carrier06:18
Ken-YoungIs there any benefit to uploading code to the maemo garage if you also upload the package to Extras Testing?06:24
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GAN900Netflix would be great if it ever actually worked reliably.07:17
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slonopotamusThe following packages will be upgraded: libsoup2.26-dev (2.26.3-3maemo1 => 2.26.3-3maemo1)07:40
slonopotamus???07:40
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RobbieThe1st:D I love my n900. I just flashed dd-wrt firmware to my new router with it! Can your iThing do that?07:44
Neccofc yes!07:45
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Neccall i need to do is to download an application from the iCrap store!07:46
RobbieThe1st:P07:47
Necc^^07:47
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wmaroneRobbieThe1st: tftp transfer?07:49
Necci think general web upload07:50
RobbieThe1stNah; just plain old http file upload07:50
RobbieThe1stYea07:50
wmaronehuh07:50
RobbieThe1stBut with the lack of file manager etc... and javascript support...07:50
wmaronecause last time I did dd-wrt I had to do a tftp transfer07:50
RobbieThe1stMost devices would have trouble07:50
wmaroneI just replaced that router the weekend before last with one I put openwrt on07:50
RobbieThe1stwmarone: It's a WRT160N v307:50
wmaronecool07:51
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ZogGsony is going crazy =)))09:00
ZogGNokia is angel with it support if you watch what is going on with sony right now =)09:01
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Ken-YoungZogG, What is Sony doing?09:01
ZogGKen-Young it wants to sue people who commented and.... wait for it... WATCHED the video of geohot of jailbroken 3.55 =)09:02
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ZogGit's not just blobs, but even if you manage to have homebrew on your ps3 you are doomed =0)09:03
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DocScrutinizer~tell compengi about batteryfaq10:26
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jonwilAnyone know which module/app is the one that displays the list of internet connections for you to pick from?10:47
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_nicolai_jonwil, connectivity-ui ?10:50
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jonwilthere is no such package or binary10:50
jonwilplenty of packages similarly named10:50
jonwilwith no idea which one is the right one10:50
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trx2jonwil libconic10:53
trx2btw, you request a connection and if there isnt a preffered network it shows that dialog10:54
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* RST38h moos carnivorously10:55
jonwilwell in this case I am trying to clone the dialog, not talk to it (I need to display a list of connections myself for my new ICD policy plugin10:55
jonwilbut yeah libconic is a good place to start10:56
jonwilsince its oss10:56
trx2yep10:56
jonwilLooks like libicd_policy_ask.so is the next major link in the chain10:58
_nicolai_d-feet  shows com.nokia.icd_ui.show_conn_dlg is in /usr/bin/osso-connectivity-ui-conndlgs10:59
DocScrutinizereeek, the killer cow11:00
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jonwilLooks like the secret stuff is in libiap_conndlg.so11:01
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jonwilactually, I dont think I need to reverse engineer that at all11:02
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jonwilWhat I need ultimatly is a dialog box with a scrollable list of clickable buttons11:02
jonwilI dont need any of the secret sauce in libiap_conndlg.so11:02
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RST38hDoc: Are we already having "the moment" on tmo?11:04
RST38hDoc: As result of Elop's leaked memo?11:04
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chxRST38h: leaked? url?11:05
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RST38hchx: google.11:05
chxhttp://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin11:05
chxthis?11:05
johnxRST38h, the point at which the signal/noise approaches 011:05
RST38hjohnx: has been reached a while ago11:06
* DocScrutinizer feeds RST38h witha few pound of raw meat11:07
jonwilI dont think Nokia is going to want to give up their leadership in UI and user experience and jump on the MS bandwagon where MS controls most of the UI and UX11:09
mango_makeHi, I'm trying to work out how to change the "default" row height of maemo5 styled listWidgetItems. I have read many forum posts saying howto make custom delegates that return a calculated sizeHint - but this sounds to me like overkill. All my rows in all my listWidgets within my app need to be the same height but less than the default so that a greater number of items can be seen at any one time. I think this envolves mod11:09
mango_makeifying something in QMaemo5Style - but again i cant seem to find a simple call to di it. Can anybody tell me a simple way to set the default height of these rows to say half the current (which i think would be 35 instead of 70)?11:09
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RST38hDoc: Beef? =)11:10
chxRST38h: what does "the moment" mean?11:10
mango_makesorry i shoudl have stated Qt listWidget11:10
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RST38hchx: If someone sneaks up on you and hits you with a baseball bat from behind, you will be having a moment11:11
RST38hchx: If that leads to your premature death, you would be having THE moment11:11
chxheh11:11
RST38h(which also explains a difference between articles in English :))11:12
trx2mango_make use stylesheets11:12
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jonwilIMO if Nokia decided that neither Symbian or MeeGo was the future, Android would be a better choice than Windows Phone11:16
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jonwilwith Android they could create their own 100% nokia UX on top of vanilla Android (like HTC did with Sense)11:16
chxwhat if it's Meego + Alien Dalvik?11:16
jonwilI wonder how hard it would be to go beyond Alien Dalvik and produce a genuine11:18
chxalso, did anyone consider a Blackberry - Nokia merger ?11:18
jonwilgenuine Dalvik for Maemo or MeeGo that could run Android apps as-is11:18
jonwilwithout needing to change the Android app at all11:18
chxor a Nokia+HP working together to pwn the US enterprise phone market?11:18
jonwilDidn't HP just buy Palm?11:19
chxsure they did, and?11:19
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jonwilIf it were possible, I would suggest that one way forward for Nokia would be to do something a bit like what Apple did with OSX whereby they make future MeeGo phones but at the same time bolt-on some Symbian compatibility libraries to allow all the vast bulk of Symbian apps to run on top11:22
jonwilwhich overcomes the chicken-and-egg of needing apps to get consumers interested and needing consumers to get app developers interested11:23
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chxgiven today's CPUs , i guess a symbian vm is not outta question11:24
johnxjonwil, they could. but they have to decide how many developers to put on that, that could be doing other things11:24
chxthat woudl be a killer wouldnt it11:24
chxPlain Linux kernel with a Dalvik AND a Symbian VM.11:24
jonwilthe idea is that it would give them all the good things about Symbian but none of the bad things that seem to be holding Symbian back11:25
jonwili.e. all the things that make Symbian worse as a smartphone OS than Android or iOS or Windows Phone11:25
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RST38hjohnx: OMG, tmo comes to irc!11:28
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ruskieerm...11:28
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johnxRST38h, Heh. Are you saying this isn't the place to hold my lecture on opportunity cost and how one-off dead-end projects are a bad idea?11:29
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ruskiehow are they a bad idea?11:30
ruskie<-- still likes the m5 UX more than any other "smart"phone UX he tried so far...11:30
jonwilI do love the N90011:30
alteregoI kind of agree ...11:30
johnxruskie, how are one-off dead-end projects a bad idea? Uhm, is that really the question?11:31
ruskieand who says they are dead-end...11:31
alteregoif there were just a few tiny refinements it would be extremely attractive too :)11:31
jonwilThe N900 is the best smartphone ever made for a geek like me11:31
johnxruskie, I was mostly talking about a symbian emulation layer for meego11:31
alteregowoof11:32
alteregoYou mean Qt?11:32
ruskiealterego, well Qt wasn't is symbian for a long time ;)11:32
alteregoYou could call it "Syne"11:32
alteregoWell, do it :P11:32
ruskieif they had Qt from a long time ago they could have went with something like that...11:33
DocScrutinizerRST38h: (beef?) whatever the carnivore moocow prefers11:33
mango_maketrx, Thanks! works a charm!11:34
DocScrutinizerRST38h: I guess you like eating your colleagues11:34
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mango_maketrx2, Thanks! works a charm!11:34
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ruskiebut with it only being a recent addition they would first need a decent app-pool...11:34
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RST38hjohnx: No, I am saying that I am seeing the same dumb "analysis" I am skipping on tmo11:35
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RST38hjohnx: "Let Elop adopt WP7 and make a Symbian simulation layer on top!"11:36
RST38hjohnx: "Let Elop run WebOS inside Meego!"11:36
RST38hjohnx: etc.11:36
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ruskiefor a phone I still consider S40 to be the better(best?)... UX so far...11:36
ruskieI don't acknowledge that there exist "smart"phones...11:36
RST38hS40 is a sad little sandbox11:36
ruskiebut it works reliably...11:36
johnxruskie, I think you might have ended up in the wrong channel ... ;)11:37
alteregoIt does work well11:37
RST38hNot always, depends on the phone model11:37
ruskieuntil such devices exist that can read my mind and do things smartly based on that... it's not smart... it's dumb...11:37
RST38hI think the late models do work though11:37
ruskiemy mom has a n6300 iirc... great device... no issues11:37
alteregoA phone that can read you mind and do smart things based on that would be more clever than you.11:38
alteregoAre you sure you want that? :P11:38
nidOI still own my 3210, my first ever mobile11:38
alteregoHeh11:38
nidOit still beats the hell out of 95% of current smartphones as a phone11:38
ruskieI've used a n5110 for over 6 years... and still have it11:38
alteregoThe 3210 was awesome11:38
ruskiestill original battery... still get a weeks worth of standby11:39
ruskieit worked... no issues at all11:39
alteregoI had an 8210 too11:39
ruskieand that's what I expect from a phone... a no-nosense device11:39
alteregoI liked that phone. though there was a known issue with the screen11:39
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ruskieI consider things like "smart"phones just another way of saying tablet computer11:40
DocScrutinizerhell, elop is a fool, complaining about "only one meego device out in the wild in 2011" but same time to me it looks like either Nokia is simply ignoring the handset UX development by paying some poor 4 developers to somehow make a meego work on N900, or they wre even stupid enough to develop a supposedly open OS in parallel behind Nokia walls11:40
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ruskiefor which a phone centric UX does NOT work and NEVER will...11:40
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ruskiemy n900 is primarily used as a basic level phone... ocassionaly use it for other things... but that is rare11:41
jacekowskin900 port of meego is done not by nokia11:41
DocScrutinizer...while aplle probably has 4000 and windows 40000 devels working for years to roll out a polished new OS version11:41
jacekowskibut by people that are not related to nokia in any way11:41
nidOruskie, this is why devices like the old communicators are popular among people who used em11:42
achipaX-Fade: bergie around ?11:43
nidOclosed, its a straightforward easy phone11:43
johnxjacekowski, errr, they're at very least paid by Nokia11:43
nidOopen, its a tablet11:43
DocScrutinizerstskeeps definitely is11:43
alteregojohnx: no, we really arent :P11:43
johnxalterego, well, *some* are :)11:43
alteregojohnx: some are doing it in their spare time (that work at Nokia) and have the ability to help with the closed components.11:44
jacekowskijohnx: no they are not11:44
DocScrutinizerthose legendary 4 that almost lost their mind, facing the daunting task11:44
knoppixnidO: i'm one of them :P still love my 9300i11:44
alteregojohnx: the N900 adaptation is not funded by anyone.11:44
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alteregojohnx: it's a hobby project.11:44
ruskienever had the chance to use a communicator but loved the idea/design...11:44
jacekowskijohnx: you should watch stskeeps talk on fosdem11:45
johnxalterego, I think I really got the wrong impression then. sorry about that11:45
ruskiealterego, I thought the n900 was the reference platform for meego...11:45
alteregoruskie: :)11:45
alteregoIt's a reference platform, in that it'as OMAP and has a display ..11:45
achipaalterego: good luck in getting a hobby project an official Nokia and/or MeeGo sticker11:45
DocScrutinizeralterego: now that's bs11:46
ruskiewell frankly don't really care since I dislike the meego phone UX...11:46
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alteregoachipa: well, it already has an official MeeGo sticker what do you mean?11:46
DocScrutinizerruskie: +111:46
alteregoYeah, I don't really like the UX either.11:46
achipawho gave it the meego sticker ?11:46
achipaalterego: ^11:47
alteregoachipa: why do you think it doesn't have one?11:47
ruskieI mean either the IVI or the Netbook UX could work better imho...11:47
alteregoThe work is hosted under meego.com11:47
alteregoThe N900 _is_ one of the reference devices ..11:47
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alteregoAlong with ncdk, icdk and aava ..11:48
DocScrutinizerdudes, this isn't about stickers, this is about *massive* manpower needed to build and DEBUG/FIELDTEST a new OS11:48
achipaalterego: I'm saying you don't get a meego sticker or the name of "Nokia N900 Hardware Adaptation Team" if you have nothing to do with Nokia11:48
alteregoachipa: why not?11:49
alteregoWhat has Nokia got to do with anything?11:49
ruskieachipa, Nokia already said that they don't plan on supporting MeeGo on the N900 iirc...11:49
ruskieofficially11:49
DocScrutinizermeh, missing the point11:49
alteregoYes, Nokia's MeeGo, not the community built/run MeeGo that is the adaptation ..11:49
achipauuuhhh... do we have to go over this for the millionth time ?11:49
* ruskie considers if he can splurge on a touchbookv2 this year...11:50
achipaalterego: well if you put 'nokia' on your team name nokia legal is not going to be happy11:50
alteregoThink of MeeGo as being Ubuntu for your phone11:50
alteregoachipa: so?11:50
RST38hDoc: I doubt Elop knows N900 exists11:50
alteregoAt least that's the meego adaptation.11:50
DocScrutinizeralterego: BS11:50
achipaalterego: so ?11:50
RST38hDoc: It is quite possible he does not know Harmattan exists11:51
alteregoachipa: it's called the Nokia N900 what else would you call a team of people getting the hardware to work?11:51
DocScrutinizerRST38h: I dunno if he knows about N900, evidently he knows about a Nokia meego device11:51
RST38hDoc: The quesiton is, what he means by it11:51
RST38hDoc: Notice that it does not have to be Harmattan11:51
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achipaalterego: I obviously can't tell you what Nokia is or isn't paying,  just can appeal to your common sense - but if you want to forego that...11:52
DocScrutinizerI know and even think that's not HE for sure11:52
DocScrutinizerbut then how's he expecting to see Nokia meego devices pop out of nowhere while some fuzzy crowd not related to Nokia is developing the OS?11:53
RST38hDoc: Once again, he may have already written Meego off. You simply do not know.11:53
DocScrutinizerthis means either Nokia has a secret meego devel crew, or the "official" visible one is way too underpowered11:53
DocScrutinizerbots similarly evil11:54
* jonwil wonders what the plan for N900 GPS on MeeGo is11:54
RST38hIt is pointless to second guess things11:54
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DocScrutinizerit is pointless to discuss economic and management things here, it seems11:55
RST38hDoc: Or anywhere else11:55
DocScrutinizerI'm not talking about future, I state the obvious about the past and present time11:55
RST38hDoc: Because none of us have any idea what is going on and what Nokia management is thinking11:55
achipaDocScrutinizer: I think most people overestimate reference implementations11:55
achipa(in terms of how it relates to actual products)11:56
RST38hDoc: There are several things that can be deduced by carefully comparing facts, but they are simply not enough to create the full picture11:56
DocScrutinizerRST38h: so what? makes that their lack of open meego support and a clear migration path any more sound?11:56
jonwilI think the #1 thing the community wants from Nokia regarding MeeGo on N900 is support for the closed source bits11:56
achipaRST38h: but why create the full picture when you can... speculate !!! :)11:56
RST38hDoc: Who told you they are interested in providing you with an open platform and a migration path?11:57
achipajonwil: IIUC that is sort-of agreed upon (this would mean drivers following kernels and such)11:57
johnxWe need to figure out how to setup a game like 'fantasy football' except for phones and phone OS marketshare. "Fantasy CEO" or something11:57
RST38hDoc: This certainly has no direct relation to the number of devices they can sell11:57
DocScrutinizerRST38h: who says that's a point of any interest at all?11:58
RST38hjohnx: This has been done kong time ago11:58
RST38hjohnx: The site was named fuckedupcompany.com11:58
johnxRST38h, right. but it needs to be standardized enough to bet on11:58
RST38hjohnx: I think they had betting, deadpool style11:58
johnx(!!)11:58
DocScrutinizerRST38h: I guess you simply missed my initial statement about elop being a fool, and why11:58
johnxI did not know that ...11:58
RST38hDoc: Anyone who calls Elop a fool is...mm...shortsighted11:59
RST38hDoc: He may not have your personal interests in mind, but fool he is not, sorry11:59
DocScrutinizeranyone who calls me shortsighted is ignorant11:59
johnxDocScrutinizer, ignorant of the fact that you're actually farsighted? or is it a stigmatism?12:00
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: sorry, your problem seems to be *you* got only our interests in mind, while my statement about elop was exclusivle Nokia future centric12:00
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DocScrutinizeryou can't reasonably moan about slow meego progress while same time not throwing any manpower on it12:02
RST38hMmm...No, he is not getting it. Thinking it is personal instead :)12:02
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sx0nafaik meego progress is on schedule12:03
sx0n1.212:04
DocScrutinizermeh12:04
RST38hjohnx: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://fuckedupcompany.com12:04
johnxRST38h, yeah. I remembered them and the news about dead/dying companies. I didn't know they had betting to go with it12:04
chem|st.oO(but not all stages are developed... netbook UX won't get luv till +1.3)12:04
RST38hchem|st: from where I am watching, the netbook UI seems to be the only one getting regular love :)12:05
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chem|stRST38h: uhh show me you place then ;)12:06
* RST38h is really interested to see what the tablet UI will look like12:07
chem|stactualy I dont care... coming from ION the netbookUX is crap...12:07
DocScrutinizerlook how long it took maemo to ripe to diablo, and how long it took Nokia to make that basically ridiculous augment from diablo to fremantle, and even for that they needed massive support from a benevolent community and aren't really there yet. Now Nokia thought they can migrate from maemo fremantle to meego, with the original maemo team split ahalf, and end with a prime time ready handset UX in less than 12 months?? c'mon12:07
chem|stRST38h: it will look like the netbookUX as it is already without any keyboard interaction...12:08
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chem|stRST38h: tested it only for 20min BUT I guess it is much more useful with mouse or touchscreen (normal netbooks do not have)12:10
* chem|st is back to work12:10
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dm8tbrboth joggler and archos9 are examples of community projects using netbook-ux12:14
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RST38hchem|st: so that stunning tablet UI demo was just a demo?12:18
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RST38hDoc: I think my main point would be tat they do not really need any community to move meego forward12:19
RST38hDoc: They can do it in private12:19
RST38hDoc: So, all this "need community support" thing is kinda not an issue12:19
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DocScrutinizer38: sorry no highlight on doc: here12:24
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baraujoX-Fade, I sent a package yesterday to autobuilder and its binaries are not available on extras-devel yet... could you take a look? this is the request: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/pyside_1.0.0~beta5-1maemo1/12:36
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chem|stRST38h: that was nothing meego base or are you refering to s/t else? link?12:53
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RST38hchem|st: It was delivered as a "Meego Tablet concept UI"12:58
RST38hchem|st: Apparently, it wasn't real just a mockup12:58
chem|stRST38h: the one with the bubbles they also showed on the n900 (water style...)?13:00
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Dado7hi people, good days13:07
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denohi there13:40
denoI have a problem with opencv on maemo13:40
denoI get:13:40
denoOpenCV Error: Assertion failed (code) in imwrite_, file highgui/loadsave.cpp, line 29413:41
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denoit is only on maemo13:41
denothe same code works on the other systems13:41
LjLare there any GPS navigation apps for the N810, with actual routing and spoken direction, aside from the trial one included?13:41
derfThere's Maemo Mapper, but I think the server that served driving directions is down now.13:45
derfAnd probably not likely to be resuscitated.13:45
LjL:(13:45
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keriobuy a n900!13:52
alteregoIf you can ...13:54
psycho_oreosanother rotting tooth?13:54
LjLN900 doesn't really fit my (well, my sister's) needs, nor my price target. on the other hand i probably should have got an Archos 5 for the same price13:54
LjLthere is Navit... but it doesn't even seem to start :\13:56
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akikhawwhat's your price target then?13:59
LjL€10013:59
jonwilMaybe someone will get "google maps navigation for android" running under that N900/Maemo/MeeGo Dalvik port13:59
akikhawi've seen a few used n900's go for less than 20013:59
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akikhawok, that's pretty low then even for an used n90013:59
LjLbut it's the typical N810 or Archos 5 price, actually i paid the N810 €8714:00
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LjLuhm Navit fails on wanting libcrypto, i guess i'll have to hunt for that one14:00
psycho_oreosthe irony is that N810 is losing support fairly quickly as is with N90014:00
ccookeDamn. I will be very dissapointed if Nokia do decide to ditch meego.14:01
ccookeI've been hoping for a meego phone to save me from having to get another Android phone :-/14:01
* alterego sighs14:01
akikhawthe reuters "news" is just a rehash of the old eldar twitter post :p14:01
akikhawif you were talking about that14:01
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ccookeakikhaw: nah, the memo that's doing the rounds14:02
alteregoWhere do you guys come up with this shit ..14:02
rangealterego: Engadget :)14:02
alteregoHeh14:02
psycho_oreoswords from the grapevine :p14:02
RST38hAha, I see that the memo has finally reached the masses14:02
ccookealterego: Hey, I said "if".14:02
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alteregoccooke: even just talking about it is retarded.14:02
* alterego wonders off.14:02
ccookealterego: That's nice.14:02
RST38halterego: Was that a typo? =)14:03
LjLis there a state-of-the-art screen rotator for the N810, or are they all the same? like, something that rotates depending on keyboard state (i've seen at least two of those), and that can keep the Maemo buttons on the short side of the screen14:03
alteregoCome back when you've got proof, whining about "if"s is stupid.14:03
RST38hLjL: No.14:03
ccookealterego: Try learning to read while you're gone, huh?14:03
alteregoRST38h: no, lapse in spelling :P14:03
* RST38h sighs14:03
alteregoccooke: read what?14:04
RST38halterego: The lapse worked =)14:04
ccookealterego: there's this word "if" that actually means something :-)14:04
LjLRST38h: does that mean i might as well get the first that shows up on google?14:04
psycho_oreosI think its a bit of a given that nokia is currently in a vulnerable state, any little media persuasions may seem plausible to the average joe from some random reporter without enough sources to backup his/her FUD14:04
alteregoccooke: Sure it does, but you're just spreading FUD,14:04
RST38hccooke: As in "If granny had balls, she would be granddaddy"14:04
alteregoccooke: and in case you didn't know .. #meego is over there ->14:04
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chem|stthe memo means that nokia maybe start some fuzzy WP7/android phones to keep up the marketshare till meego is ready...14:05
chem|stno a big deal...14:05
LjLeeek. "nothing was found for libcrypto in OS2008" :(14:05
ccookechem|st: That would be at least interesting, if it turned out to be true.14:05
denohas anyone had problem with saving images with opencv?14:06
chem|stccooke: it is the least interesting to any of us here I guess14:06
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ccookechem|st: Agreed.14:06
RST38hchem|st: Meego is actually given just a couple of sentences in the memo, saying that it is really really late14:06
psycho_oreosnokia already have their hands full with both symbian and maemo/meego. That's what caused them to have such big messes14:06
RST38hchem|st: And there are no definite plans laid out for Meego OR for WP7/Android14:06
alteregoI didn't think it was late ..14:06
chem|stneither will I buy android/WP7 phones in my life nor iPranks14:07
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alteregoEspecially if they're Nokia ones ..14:08
* ccooke has an android phone currently - mainly because he wanted to try it out. On the whole, I much prefer the n900. Of course, I let my wife steal mine, now, so... :-/14:08
RobbieThe1stchem|st: I agree!14:08
alteregoGod, MeeGo will be on version 4 by the time Nokia have customised an Android instance ..14:08
jonwilI will never buy an iPhone or Windows Phone 714:08
korhojoaccooke: oh dang, what are you going to do now?14:08
ccooke(Android does have huge numbers of apps, but... at least the models I've seen just aren't as nice to use as *phones*)14:08
chem|stas the looks of now I will buy n900s as long as they are available14:09
RST38halterego: Why customize? Release it as it is, cheap!14:09
alteregoRST38h: do you honestly see that happening? :P14:09
ccookekorhojoa: I have a spare broken n900. Probably find someone to fix the usb socket eventually :-)14:09
RST38halterego: Yes. I have got vivid, unhealthy imagination14:09
korhojoaah, the damn microusb14:09
alteregoHeh14:09
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Venemo_N900is there any command that can reliably tell me the current maemo version?14:13
RST38huname -a?14:13
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Venemo_N900RST38h: not kernel version14:14
ccookeVenemo_N900: there's the system info applet in the settings.14:14
alteregoUnfortunately no.14:14
ccookeVenemo_N900: ... also, you can probably just check the output of dpkg -l14:14
Venemo_N900ccooke: that's not the point14:14
alteregoYou're still talking about maemo 4 vs. maemo 5 right?14:14
Venemo_N900alterego: right14:14
alteregoThen unfortunately I don't think there is a way.14:15
ccookeah. v4. That's rather different.14:15
alteregoYou need to target the lowest common denominator for each of your dependencies.14:15
ccookeVenemo_N900: what sort of granularity are you after?14:15
Venemo_N900alterego: I could use /etc/dpkg/origins/ but they're the same14:15
alteregoHeh14:15
Venemo_N900ccooke: I  want to add libqtm-sensors dependency when compiling for Maemo 5 and I don't want it when compiling for Maemo 414:16
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ccookeVenemo_N900: so you need a method of determining which you're on, from a command line. But you only need the major version, right?14:17
Venemo_N900ccooke: correct14:17
alteregoccooke: not going to work in a control file ..14:17
Venemo_N900alterego: nah!14:17
ccookealterego: argh, point14:17
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Venemo_N900no need to bother with the control fle14:17
ccookeokay, so a script would do?14:18
Venemo_N900I can use the rules file to execute any command14:18
alteregoHrm, yeah I guess that might work.14:18
ccookeVenemo_N900: okay, got it. check /proc14:18
Venemo_N900and then use substitution variables and dh_gencontrol14:18
alteregoNot sure how extras will handle that.14:18
ccookeVenemo_N900: the pseudofiles for the n810's graphics hardware are different to the n900's..14:18
Venemo_N900ccooke: yes, but they're probably not on the sdk14:19
ccooke(among other differences)14:19
alteregoJust check to see if apt is using fremantle repositories or diablo :P14:19
ccookealterego: *grin*14:19
Venemo_N900ccooke: I'm thinking of simply checking for libqtm-sensors...14:19
alteregoVenemo_N900: well, that would be the _proper_ way to do it.14:19
ccookeVenemo_N900: do an apt-cache lookup or it, see if it's installable?14:20
Venemo_N900alterego: hey, that's good but on MADDE there is no apt at all.14:20
alteregoVenemo_N900: what has madde got to do with it?14:20
Venemo_N900alterego: what if I compile under MADDE?14:20
alteregoYou're not packaging under madde though are you?14:20
alteregoAll the mobility APIs are already installed.14:21
Venemo_N900not atm, but I may.14:21
alteregoVenemo_N900: don't, seriously don't :P14:21
Venemo_N900anyway, I think I'll check for the existence of the mobility apis14:21
alteregoNo one uses madde for packaging .. I don't even think it's possible.14:21
alteregoIf you want to create packages use scratchbox or extras14:21
Venemo_N900alterego: It is well possible. while I was on windows, I could do it.14:22
Venemo_N900alterego: 'mad dpkg-buildpackage -sa -S'14:22
alteregoOh, cool14:22
Venemo_N900so, gimme some shell command that can determine whether a package exists and will also work on MADDE14:23
alteregoNeah14:23
alteregoThat's just silly.14:23
Venemo_N900probably checking for the existence of /usr/lib/libqtmwhatever.so maybe the best14:23
alteregoPick a packaging target and work with that.14:24
alteregoI suggest scratchbox14:24
alteregoIf you're using madde, well, you can't use madde for diablo, so what is the point?14:24
Venemo_N900anyone should be able to package it. even users of MADDE on Windows.14:24
alteregoVenemo_N900: but if it's not there then the autobuilder wont import it.14:24
Venemo_N900alterego: so, back to checking for maemo version somehow.14:25
alteregoOr just package qtm for diablo14:25
Venemo_N900it wouldn't work14:26
Venemo_N900n810 has no accelerometer afaik14:26
alteregoWell, that's a different problem.14:26
Venemo_N900alterego: worst case, I make a separate control file14:27
alteregom'hmm14:27
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Venemo_N900but I wanna avoid that...14:30
Venemo_N900isn't there an mp-diablo-*-pr package? like on fremantle?14:30
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DocScrutinizer(<Venemo_N900> is there any command that can reliably tell me the current maemo version?) set|grep MAEMO14:43
DocScrutinizererr grep OSSO_PROD14:43
DocScrutinizerOSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_FULL_NAME='Maemo 5'14:44
DocScrutinizerOSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_NAME='Maemo 5'14:44
DocScrutinizerOSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION=3.2010.02-814:44
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: will that work in the sdk?14:44
DocScrutinizerummppf14:44
DocScrutinizerNFC14:44
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: remember, we're talking about a way to determine this at compile time14:45
DocScrutinizerwhat's the product version of MAEMO in sdk anyway?14:45
alteregoThere isn't an OSSO_blah14:45
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alteregoThere is an /etc/maemo_version14:46
DocScrutinizersure, as sdk is NOT a true maemo environment14:46
Venemo_N900alterego: there's no such thing on N900 though.14:46
alteregoOh neat, /etc/operator_settings14:46
alteregoThat could be useful.14:47
Venemo_N900:j14:47
DocScrutinizert900:~# osso-product-info14:47
DocScrutinizerOSSO_PRODUCT_HARDWARE='RX-51'14:47
DocScrutinizerOSSO_PRODUCT_NAME='N900'14:47
DocScrutinizerOSSO_PRODUCT_FULL_NAME='Nokia N900'14:47
DocScrutinizerOSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_NAME='Maemo 5'14:47
DocScrutinizerNFC if that works any better, in sdk14:48
alteregoDocScrutinizer: doesn't exist in scratchbox ;)14:48
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DocScrutinizeryeah, as there *is* no true veritable maemo release version in sdk14:49
DocScrutinizeryou can try to get version of arm kernel, of arbitrary libs, of dunnowhat14:49
alteregoI'd use /etc/maemo_version14:49
Venemo_N900alterego: sounds okay14:49
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: thank you14:50
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* DocScrutinizer does a "echo fusckdup_by_doc >/etc/maemo_version" on alterego's sdk14:50
alterego:P14:50
alteregoVenemo_N900: wont work in madde though.14:50
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alteregoNot sure if it's in DIABLO either ..14:50
Venemo_N900alterego: hehe.14:51
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: you need to test for the particular property you're interested in, if you want to do compiletime ifdefs or whatever14:51
alteregoDocScrutinizer: his problem isn't compile time, that's fine.14:52
alteregoHis problem is packaging :/14:52
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: #ifdefs are already there in the code and they work14:52
DocScrutinizerif you want to use accelerometer, then it's nonsense to test for maemo version14:52
alteregoHe wants the M5 version to depend on a library that M4 doesn't have.14:52
alteregoAnd compile on both.14:52
DocScrutinizerso test if the lib is there14:52
DocScrutinizersimple as that14:52
alteregoNot when he's using the auto builder.14:52
DocScrutinizeruhuh14:53
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DocScrutinizerso testing if there's "fsckdup_by_doc" in /etc/maemo_version is any simpler?14:53
Venemo_N900nah14:54
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DocScrutinizerif you want to know about A, don't ask about B14:55
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: I just wanna determine if I'm on fremantle or not.14:55
DocScrutinizeryou're on sdk!14:55
Venemo_N900right14:55
DocScrutinizersdk is probably ubuntu14:56
Venemo_N900fedora for me14:56
Venemo_N900so checking for kernel version is totally worthless.14:56
Venemo_N900it would find the fc14 kernel :P14:56
DocScrutinizeryou either need to define what you're planning to do, by some config file, and teher you are free to have a '#def maemo-version 5'14:57
DocScrutinizeror you check if your sdk has some support for any particular bit, like .h for a lib14:57
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: the problem with the latter is that it'll not work on autobuilder14:58
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: I'll do something like your former idea14:58
DocScrutinizeryes, that's why it's nonsense per se14:59
DocScrutinizeran sdk may support maemo 3 4 5 6 meego and maybe even sybian14:59
DocScrutinizeryou can't do conditional compiles based on properties of sdk15:00
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DocScrutinizeryou can, but it's nonsense15:00
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: only one target can be selected at any time on an sdk. but you're right :)15:00
DocScrutinizerthen test for the target, by whatever means the sdk provides15:01
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DocScrutinizerI'd go for proper makefile defs, then 'make maemo5', 'make maemo4' whatever15:02
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: I'll just make a separate control file15:02
DocScrutinizeryep15:02
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Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: no messing with makefile needed15:15
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: qmake does that for me already15:15
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DocScrutinizermhm, fine15:15
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: this question was just about packaging15:16
DocScrutinizerso who's doing packaging for you? ;-)15:16
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: I already did.15:16
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: I however didn't realize that I'll need a separate control file for diablo15:17
DocScrutinizerand separate destination files so you don't overwrite previously built pkgs for !diablo15:18
DocScrutinizerso either you do a mere cd15:18
DocScrutinizeror you set a env var or sth like that15:18
DocScrutinizeror yu have a monster job that builds for all targets at once15:19
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jonwilyay, my ICD policy logging plugin is giving me some good information15:49
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jonwiland not only was I able to find a convenience store to sell me some Coca-Cola but my phone passed through various changes in network state in the process15:50
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jonwilNow I just need to find someone with access to 2 different WiFi networks to gain the missing pieces of info and I can attempt to write my new tool15:53
jonwilin the mean time, I will continue to work on reverse engineering libiap_conndlg.so15:53
javispedromorning gentlemen15:55
jonwilmorning15:56
jonwilreverse engineering connectivity UI is fun :P15:58
javispedrojonwil: if you're doing ICD2 interesting work I have a icd2 network plugin that more or less replaces libicd_network_wlan.so and its propietary eap counterpart15:58
javispedro(using wpa_supplicant instead of osso-wlan-security)15:58
javispedrohttp://git.maemo.org/git/libicd-wpa/15:58
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jonwilso its a drop-in replacement that replaces libicd_network_wlan.so, libicd_network_eap.so and osso-wlan-security package with your new plugin and the wpa_supplicant package?15:59
javispedrohardly drop-in, but yes.16:00
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javispedro(it requires custom UI, IAP setting fields don't match, as mine's are just wpa_supplicant ones)16:00
jonwilbut it has all the features of the Nokia setup?16:00
javispedrothat I think of, yes. And more.16:01
javispedro(for ex all of wpasupplicant's protocols)16:01
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jonwilI wonder why Nokia went to the trouble of writing osso-wlan-security instead of just using wpa_supplicant16:02
javispedromy guess: symbian code.16:02
javispedrowhen the Eduroam/PAP mess happened, Symbian was affected too.16:02
jonwilMy guess is that lots of the closed source middle-ware on Maemo is based on Symbian code (which is also closed)16:03
jonwilso things like icd and csd16:03
javispedronote that most of it was made for the 770. at that time, I could accept that the OSS alternatives you know these days where not fully usable.16:04
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javispedro(well, not csd)16:05
jonwilyeah thats also true16:05
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javispedrooh, oh.16:06
* javispedro grabs popcorn and heads straight to tmo after seeing Engadget today.16:06
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RST38hjavispedro: mostly screaming, some ritual suicides16:07
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RST38hjavispedro: even spilled over here this morning16:07
jonwildamn, Symbian source code was available but now its not16:07
RST38hjonwil: still is, just need ot ask the right people16:07
jonwilwho are the "right people"?16:08
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DocScrutinizerhehe16:08
jacekowskijavispedro: dalvik thing?16:08
henezdo you know the name of the h-e-n irc channel?16:09
GAN900N900s are going to be in service for a long time if a slate is Nokia's first MeeGo device.16:09
javispedrojacekowski: nope, n9 cancelled thing.16:09
Venemo_N900GAN900: slate? where do you get that from?16:09
henezDocScrutinizer, thx16:09
DocScrutinizeryw16:09
jacekowskijavispedro: woot?16:09
jacekowskilink16:10
javispedrohttp://www.engadget.com/2011/02/09/nokia-kills-n9-00-its-first-meego-handset/16:10
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jacekowskican you tinyurlit16:10
jacekowskimy X are currently broken16:10
javispedrohttp://tinyurl.com/n9murder16:10
javispedrobrowsing Engadget without X11 is severely unrecommended though.16:11
GAN900Frankly I think that spells trouble for Nokia.16:11
javispedroomg. memo from Elop.16:11
javispedroI guess I will need to start abusing the popcorn I was stocking for MWC today.16:12
jacekowskiwill there be anything to replace N9?16:12
CorsacN916:12
jacekowskither will be no N916:12
Corsac(-01 vs. -00)16:12
jacekowskiah16:12
Corsacyeah, this isn't confusing at all16:13
Corsacand it could be worse, it could be rumors16:13
Corsacwait...16:13
javispedroNokia the burning platform!16:13
javispedroClearly, they have to pee into it to try and stop the flames instead of peeing in their pants to get warm.16:14
Trewasprobably nokia will announce that "fuck it, we'll go back to making rubber boots"16:14
javispedroheh.16:15
derfIt's better to be outside the tent pissing in when the tent is on fire?16:15
javispedrothis Elop's guy is quite a Apple fanboy.16:16
kirma"our platform is on fire, but we can kill the fire if we team up - better than without a platform in freezing water" might be one attitude16:16
kirmait's hard to say if elop is total psycho or just scaring company folks first so that big, but less drastic changes than assumed can be accepted16:17
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RST38hderf: Apparently, it is better to drawn than to burn16:18
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RST38hderf: And yes, I think it was supposed to be some kind of those evangelical sermon stories, which make a point while not being real =)16:18
kirmabig organizational reorg and dealing with fire would seem the most sane approach imho, but if elop goes to please american investors, doom is inevitable16:19
* RST38h m00s for d00msday16:19
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RST38hjavispedro: you pervert =)16:20
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kirmathe same oil rig story was told by alahuhta that was in executive board of nokia from 1993 to 2004 when he moved to lead kone corporation at 200616:21
kirma... and elop and alahuhta sat next to each other on weekend in an ice hockey match.16:21
LjLany clue why my N810 might be ignoring the light sensor? i have installed "advanced-backlight", but i removed it later16:22
MMN-oI e-mailed Stephen Elop this morning about the Nokia N900 and Maemo, with the opinion that I'm definitely more happy with the N900 than an iPhone or Android phone:16:22
MMN-ohttp://blog.mmn-o.se/2011/02/09/mail-to-nokias-ceo-stephen-elop-about-n900/16:22
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MMN-oHe (or his secretary...) responded with a thank you for the note, so apparently it seems to reach someone.16:22
MMN-oI recommend people simply e-mailing their opinions on how Nokia can compete with free software against the iOS/Android platform16:23
JaffaMMN-o: Right. That'll change Friday16:24
Jaffa;-)16:24
pupnikwhat's all this "n9 canceled" chatter16:24
javispedrowhat Elop should do is like Amadeo I of Spain did: tell everyone "this country is fscking ungovernable" then quit.16:25
Jaffapupnik: It's strongly rumoured that the OMAP3630 device (RM-680, probably) has been canned. Primarily cos releasing a single-core OMAP3 device in the middle of 2011 would be... sub-optimal for Nokia's new high-end OS offering16:25
jonwilNokia switching to Android would be a major mistake IMO16:25
Jaffajonwil: Yup. Not nimble or cheap enough to compete in the h/w stakes.16:26
javispedroJaffa: specially with OMAP5 being in the pipeline already16:26
jonwilEven if Nokia had killer UX and UI on top of Android, they would still become just another Android OEM with a bunch of proprietary blobs16:26
* javispedro remembers getting laughed a year ago when I suggested they should've gone it OMAP4 already..16:26
jonwiland a bunch of guys on xda-developer trying to figure out how to get the Nokia blobs to work on their HTC or Samsung or Motorola16:27
psycho_oreosMMN-o, which email address you send that email to?16:28
derfUh, OMAP4 wasn't even available a year ago?16:28
javispedroderf: see, but there OMAP4 devices already :)16:29
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RST38hjavispedro: It does not count unless Amadeo shoots himself on national TV16:30
kirmaharmattan work/early hardware was just planned on basis of omap3 (I believe omap4 samples worth putting into a phone just weren't around early enough)16:33
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javispedroRST38h: no TV back then (late 1800s). He did quickly escape the country, though.16:34
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javispedro=)16:34
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dm8tbrderf: for values of available...16:36
dm8tbromap4 is still not a TI catalogue part, still there are devices popping up with it16:36
MMN-opsycho_oreos: His name separated with dots. stephen.elop@nokia.com16:37
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RST38hjavispedro: eh...16:40
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dominikbMMN-o: i have just sent an email to stephen elop similar to yours. let's hope that it has some impact.16:42
jonwilThe more I use my N900, the more I am glad I didnt buy the HTC Desire Z or the Motorola Milestone (the only high-end GSM android handsets with physical keyboards AFAIK)16:43
dnearyWe got a new wiki sysop!16:43
DocScrutinizerMEH http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/01/31/well-be-right-back/16:44
jonwilAlthough I will say that the chess AI on the N900 is starting to make me want to throw my phone across the room16:44
pupnikJaffa: i really like the omap3630 but i think we could have a lot of fun with a dual-core device as well16:44
pupniksorry 364016:44
nidOjonwil: too good?16:45
pupnikhope they go with a clicky keyboard instead of a mushy one though16:45
pupnikuser-swappable, modular cameras and rear-batteries with integrated covers would be cool also16:46
pupniksomething new16:46
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nidOtbh, its high time someone released a device with something as simple as user-swappable software, let alone hardware16:47
MMN-odominikb: Great! Encourage others as well. This kind of lobbying usually works pretty well.16:48
Appiah^^16:49
ccookejonwil: heh. I am currently using a desire Z, and I can agree with you :-)16:49
DocScrutinizer(releasing a single-core OMAP3 device in the middle of 2011 would be... sub-optimal) it's like OM. finish 98%, rethink, start from scratch, rinse, repeat16:50
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DocScrutinizerit's clearly more suboptimal to postpone / cancel N9-0016:51
ccookejonwil: Android *is* a slicker OS. The app model is much more mature and the security model has better user control. There's also the better responsiveness of a capacitive screen (although accuracy...) Everything *does* feel more polished. But it just doesn't work as well as the n900 :-/16:51
nidOit depends on your definition of cancelling, though.16:51
RST38hccooke: Android, at the OS level, is a freaking disaster.16:51
nidOcancelling that particular specific hardware iteration to replace it very quickly with something similar and with upgraded specs16:51
RST38hccooke: Sorry, to state the obvious16:51
ccookeRST38h: indeed. I've been poking about it.16:52
nidOis massively quicker to get to market once the os itll ship with is actually finished16:52
DocScrutinizerhaha16:52
DocScrutinizernidO: you worked in R&D as an EE how long?16:52
ccookeRST38h: The reason I picked up an Android phone is to give it an other chance. It's... just not as good.16:52
ccookeAlthough part of that is that nokia are better at building handsets.16:53
jonwilNokia are VERY good at making rock solid hardware IMO16:53
nidODocScrutinizer: empirical evidence clearly agrees with me. no-one's said that upgrading the hardware is a 2 minute job, but its still a shite-sight quicker than having to wait for meego to be written from scratch, which is supposedly what the holdup's been for the past 8 months16:53
DocScrutinizerjonwil: but they will need some 6 to 12 months nevertheless for that, minimum16:54
RST38hnid0: Please provide references of your empirical evidence16:54
RST38hOh, shit, this is fun: I can now troll tmo lemmings right here, on IRC!16:54
ccookethe desire z is a very nice *looking* phone, but... the audio quality is quieter and not as good. It doesn't have as good reception. The wifi drains more power than it should. Oh, and in areas where the n900 gets decent GSM/3g bandwidth, it keeps failing :-/16:54
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ccookeRST38h: (also... why should you be sorry to state the obvious?)16:55
jonwil#1 reason for picking the N900 over the Android options is that the N900 doesn't fight you when you want to modify system stuff16:55
RST38hccooke: because it is waste of electrons16:55
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noodles900how do I copy a short piece of text from a webpage?16:56
libbenill take its allready been posted in here? http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/02/08/alien-dalvik-brings-android-apps-to-meego-and-all-other-devices/16:56
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ccookeRST38h: so is this entire conversation. Might as well enjoy it :-)16:56
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rm_worknoodles900: click outside the screen on the bottom left side and drag inwards, it should give you a little cursor icon you can click to switch to text select mode16:57
jonwilJust need to find someone with access to multiple WiFi networks and then I can gather the last info I need in order to write libicd_policy_wlan_home.so16:57
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rm_worknoodles900: err, off the left hand side of the screen, but vertically somewhere below the halfway mark16:58
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DocScrutinizeror simply http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures17:00
DocScrutinizerrm_work: noodles900 ^^^17:00
RST38h"Surgeons recently needed to remove some pieces in his head because his body rejected one of the three titanium posts implanted there."17:00
DocScrutinizerumm17:00
rm_workah yes, that too :P I'm usually in favor of giving simple answers :)17:01
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DocScrutinizerI'm in favour of giving instructions how to learn things17:01
DocScrutinizerrather than teach them17:01
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ccookeDocScrutinizer: it's generally the best way. But you do need to teach people how to learn, first :-)17:02
DocScrutinizerthat's by try and error, and Darwin and sarcasm do the rest17:02
RST38hDoc: Good place to start would be by removing all the warning /safety labels17:03
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rm_workyeah, warning labels on everything make me want to stab things sometimes17:05
rm_workjust to even out the score17:05
rm_workon a giant knife: "warning, sharp. may cause injury if handled improperly."17:05
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Cor-Aiwarning labels <317:07
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GAN900rm_work, you've obviously not worked enough retail to know how stupid most people are. ;)17:09
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GAN900And ridiculously litigious, too.17:09
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RST38hGAN900: Stupid is good. Uncle Chuck will take care of the stupid.17:10
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GAN900RST38h, he needs to get on that.17:10
RST38hGAN900: Just to be sure, I suggest US switches to 220V, which will also avoid unnecessary litigation in the electrocution cases17:10
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DocScrutinizeradobe with another security update on reader, arcrobat, and flash \o/17:13
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DocScrutinizerrisk: high.  code execution in cotect of user.  http://www.adobe.com/support/security/bulletins/apsb11-02.html17:15
DocScrutinizerI'm so happy maemo doesn't have this crappy flash10¡17:16
NIN101Okay. This morning I really wasn't myself. So through USB networking and sshfs I mounted / of the N900 to /mnt/ on my laptop. Then I typed - like an idiot - chown -R [username] /mnt/ because I forgot that I had / mounted on it. Of course I received errors like hell... The point is, the lock code was reseted to 12345 and I can't change it anymore. A bit strange. Everything else seems to work. What can I do?17:16
DocScrutinizerLOL17:17
DocScrutinizermuhahahaha17:17
NIN101yeah xD17:17
DocScrutinizernice find though17:17
merlin1991well, chown it again on the phone as root17:18
NIN101I already did17:18
merlin1991or reflash I'd say17:18
DocScrutinizerreflash17:18
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DocScrutinizeryou *could* do a nifty chmod to set all files in /mnt to the perms of /mnt2 same file17:19
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smhargrettings17:21
DocScrutinizerchmod [OPTION]... --reference=RFILE FILE17:21
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keriowut? nokia cancelled the n9?17:21
kerio:|17:21
DocScrutinizertoss that into -exec of a find command, together with some err sed or basename or similar17:22
smharis it possible to 'automatically' activate bluetooth when I make or accept voice calls and deactivate when I end the call?17:22
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DocScrutinizerkerio: rumours17:22
DocScrutinizerkerio: somebody declared this a virtual Friday17:22
DocScrutinizersmhar: hmm, probably yes17:23
DocScrutinizersmhar: start at dbus-script app, then check how to enable/disable BT17:23
smhardocscrutinizer, this way I can still use the bluetooth headset while saving the battery life17:23
DocScrutinizermeh, BT is really humble with power17:24
smhardocscrutinizer, even if it is on all the day?17:24
DocScrutinizeresp when no headset paired, which you'd need to do manually (switch on headset) anyway17:24
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DocScrutinizersmhar: I guess as long as it's not 'visible' it should be really low power usage17:25
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DocScrutinizersmhar: wait a minute, I'll run a quick check17:26
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DocScrutinizersmhar: BT active and visible: +2..+8mA17:39
DocScrutinizermost of the time +2..+317:40
NIN101Ok thx, I will keep fighting against this problem, and as last solution, reflash... Going to strace controlpanel now, maybe I will see something like write(x, "you are stupid", x) hahaha.17:41
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DocScrutinizersmhar: visible or not, doesn't make a difference17:42
smhardocscrutinizer, meaning always low battery use?17:42
DocScrutinizeryes17:42
DocScrutinizerthis all without headset paired17:42
smhardocscrutinizer, good, as my current headphone (cable) is damaged and I was thinking of getting a bluetooth one, but was worried about battery17:44
smharI only need now to free enough space in rootfs to be able to upgrade my N900 :-)17:46
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DocScrutinizersmhar: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption#Some_preliminary_numbers_using_the_battery_monitor_chip.17:52
smharthanks docscrutinizer17:52
Gh0styhttp://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/09/us-nokia-meego-idUSTRE71832O2011020917:52
Gh0stywill that be the end of nokia or the start of nokia with android ... :p17:53
yaccIs it okay to remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr?17:53
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yaccInstalling libsdl-mixer1.2 1:1.2.6-5+0m5+ogg+mp3 has this side effect, ..17:53
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jacekowskiit is17:54
jacekowskibut i think it messes up OTA updates17:55
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yaccI don't do OTA updates anyway, disabled that bullshit anyway, the only updates that happen when it is hooked up via USB and I do apt-get ;)17:55
jacekowskithat's OTA17:56
jacekowskinon ota == flashing17:56
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DocScrutinizererrm, that's SSU actually, though OTA feels like a valid synonym18:05
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RST38hhttp://www.engadget.com/2011/02/09/googles-vic-gundotra-on-nokia-two-turkeys-do-not-make-an-eagl/18:10
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noodles900rm_work: not sure what I'm looking for18:20
rm_workdid you see the page DocScrutinizer linked? about gestures?18:20
noodles900rm_work: sorry - no18:21
noodles900gprs froze :(18:21
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rm_workhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures18:21
rm_worklook at browser gestures18:21
noodles900thanks - waiting for that page to load now ;)18:22
noodles900cute :)18:24
noodles900seems to work :)18:24
noodles900thanks rm_work & DocScrutinizer18:24
rm_worknp18:24
DocScrutinizeryw18:24
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: darn, it *must* be Friday and just I missed the fact. IRC and interwebs are like Friday at least18:26
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chem|stGh0sty: neither, WP7 or meego/harmattan is ready after 12 month (that all people forget about that nokians said in february last year that harmattan will be the migrating step and still be .deb based)18:26
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DocScrutinizerand harmattan evidently is in tester evaluation phase18:28
DocScrutinizerso will roll out eventually18:28
chem|stDocScrutinizer: evidently?18:28
TomaszDis there evidence?18:28
DocScrutinizerevidently, as otherwise how would nokia testers ask for maemo details here in this chan, mentioning that they are missing this or that as they are running harmattan18:29
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TomaszDso harmattan is still debian based right?18:30
Gh0styharmattan?18:30
Gh0stywhats that?18:30
DocScrutinizererrm, maemo618:30
chem|stGh0sty: m618:30
DocScrutinizeror sth like that18:30
chem|st^^18:30
Gh0stythey still work on that?18:30
Gh0styI tought that was stopped? :/18:30
DocScrutinizerevidently18:30
chem|stnokia-meego-one18:31
DocScrutinizermeego HE18:31
Gh0styor what did i read recently .. something like n900 is officially EOL and maemo would not be updated for N900 either18:31
DocScrutinizeraka maemo-meego-hybrid18:31
Gh0styand the community was going to take over18:31
Gh0stythat should be you then DocScrutinizer ? :p18:31
DocScrutinizereh?18:32
chem|stGh0sty: read again, there will no Nokia driven maemo6/meego1 for n900 but they will support the community to port it18:32
Gh0styor wait no ... you are not taking over ... you are already doing that anyway :P18:32
chem|stDocScrutinizer: you got a link handy for tester eval?18:33
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DocScrutinizerno f'ng clue what's a tester eval18:33
DocScrutinizermaybe you mean http://nokia.taleo.net18:34
Gh0styhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog18:35
Gh0stywho is working on this ? :)18:35
Gh0stythats the question :P18:35
MohammadAGmerlin199118:35
MohammadAGI did update it with the second version the other day though18:35
yaccWell, I wonder when Nokia will manage to figure out a plan what to do, and when they'll manage to communicate it to the public, ...18:36
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DocScrutinizeryacc: they never do (at least the 2nd half)18:36
yacclol18:36
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chem|st17:28 < DocScrutinizer> and harmattan evidently is in tester evaluation phase18:37
yaccWell, that's a good policy when you are the biggest bully in the sandbox, but this is quickly changing, ...18:37
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Gh0styShapeshifter: here?18:37
DocScrutinizerhttp://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-02-07.log.html#t2011-02-07T21:11:18   and   http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-01-19.log.html#t2011-01-19T21:50:5318:39
DocScrutinizerchem|st: ^^^18:40
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noodles900http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-1240346618:44
noodles900new boss is taking it seriously?18:45
Dado7hi people, mi n900 dont read memory cards ( I dont know where is the problem.. ) and i think install meggo in mi n900, can i particion memory intern and install meego and have 2 operatid system ?18:46
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yaccDado7, well, the sdhc slot only works when the backcover is in place, ...18:47
yaccnoodles900, yeah, one feels so happy reading that kind of press ;(18:47
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Dado7sorry for muy  english....., you speak spanish ? backcover is in plACE ? what is the backover ?18:52
jacekowskibackcover18:52
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jacekowskicover on the back of a phone18:52
yaccBasically when you open the phone to change SIM card, battery or SDHC card, the N900 senses that, and disables (unmounts if possible I guess) the SDHC card.18:55
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: ok harmattan^^18:57
lirakis_ha ha ha ha !!!! the truth comes out ... nokia admits they suck giant donkey penis .....   http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/02/08/nokias-elop-drops-bomb-the-platform-is-on-fire18:57
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DocScrutinizerlirakis_: *YAWN*18:59
* chem|st grabs popcorn19:00
xDaReaperxlol19:00
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yaccWow, as anybody here would try to claim that all is a perfect in Nokialand ;)19:01
chem|stbunch of ignorant people... watching them is like daily-soap19:01
keriofwiw i really want a n919:01
chem|stkerio: then buy one!19:01
xDaReaperxwhen it comes out !19:02
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chem|st.oO(wanting stuff you do not even know the hardware specs yet is just like buying iphones and think you will be more compatible to the world afterwards)19:03
yaccThe problem is that with Nokia currently it's like all "when" turn subconsciously into "if" :(19:03
MohammadAGwas the N9 announced or sth?19:03
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chem|stMohammadAG: nope19:04
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yaccA N900 with a slightly bigger screen would be nice, ...19:04
xDaReaperx3.5 aint big ?19:04
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keriochem|st: the n9 will be the shit19:05
chem|styacc: I would prefer a docking station and a car mount....19:05
keriotrue story19:05
chem|stkerio: no it wont19:05
kerioIT WILL19:05
kerioi said "true story"19:05
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chem|stcapacitive screen is just a no-go19:06
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MohammadAGUmm19:06
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MohammadAGwho hired Elop?19:07
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meegomaniakWow didya guys hear19:07
TiagoTiagounder Windows or Linux, is there a program out there that will let me copy lots of files at once, with the important detail that only source files bigger than destination files will overwrite preexisting files in the destination?19:07
meegomaniakDid you read reuters??? Nokia cancelled a meego device19:07
MohammadAGdid you see tmo? that was last week19:07
TiagoTiagolittle bit off-topic, i know19:08
nidOTiagoTiago: bigger, or just newly edited?19:08
TiagoTiagobigger19:08
TiagoTiagoregardless of date19:08
xDaReaperxmeegomaniak: yep19:08
meegomaniakHuge news19:08
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TiagoTiagofeared but expected19:09
chem|stmeegomaniak: wrong channel and no news19:09
GadgetoidIn just 10 words, can anyone tell me why I should turn on the N900 I've got knocking about and do something cool with it?19:09
meegomaniakDoesnt bode well for the future i'm guessing19:09
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chem|stGadgetoid: ?19:10
meegomaniakGadgetoid: how about one word: don't19:10
TiagoTiagoBecause you can?19:10
Gadgetoidchem|st: I've lost touch!19:10
SpeedEvilGadgetoid: sell it on ebay, and buy a duck.19:10
Proteousin 10 words or less can someone tell Gadgetoid that he is a troll?19:10
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GadgetoidI don't know what's happened lately with the N90019:10
meegomaniakGadgetoid: dont worry about the hostility here19:10
chem|stGadgetoid: two words? marble communitySSU...19:10
Gadgetoidmeegomaniak:  I'm used to it... I think I failed at phrasing my request19:11
TiagoTiagothere is a driver for packet injection, that helps?19:11
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meegomaniakGadgetoid: if you dont praise the N900 the maemo nazis will ban you.19:11
chem|stmeegomaniak: you dont know me hostile19:11
chem|stmeegomaniak: godwin's law...19:11
Gadgetoidmeegomaniak: Hahaha, I was certainly not putting it down... I just want to know what's new ;)19:11
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meegomaniakGadgetoid: ok. Unfortunately when it comes to the n900 it would appear it's dying a slow death.19:12
TiagoTiagohow long have you been gone?19:13
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Gadgetoidmeegomaniak: Yeah, I expected that... nokia don't seem to be missing the one I have lying around19:13
GadgetoidThat's usually a good sign that it's been left for dead19:13
TiagoTiagoit's one of the borrowed prototypes?19:13
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meegomaniakGadgetoid: correct.19:13
MohammadAGNokia pulled the plug the day PR1.3 was released19:13
GadgetoidTiagoTiago: Nope, it's a retail unit19:13
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MohammadAGbut really, why should you care?19:14
TiagoTiagowhy would they miss one device you legally acquired?19:14
GadgetoidI still have my N810, too... it's still awesome, but I can't find a reason to power it up19:14
GadgetoidWell, apart, AHEM, from this awesome community, of course19:15
TiagoTiagohow long have you been gone?19:15
meegomaniakWhat was the point of nokia giving out n900 to developers when it was a dying platform?19:15
GadgetoidMohammadAG: I like a good excuse to waste time tinkering with gadgetry :D19:15
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Proteousit wasn't a dying platform when they were were giving them out...19:17
TiagoTiagoit was probably a the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing situation i guess19:17
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GadgetoidHere's hoping I can jam the n900 into the iControlPad19:17
TiagoTiagoeither that or some people got fired/hired and they wanna get rid of all signs of the previous regime.....19:17
meegomaniakI hate this BS spinned by the nokia mouthpieces on TMO that the n900 could be used to develop for meego. What a crack of baloney.19:18
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* Gadgetoid plugs in the n900 to charge19:21
GadgetoidWhat's Meego like on the n900, anyway!?19:22
meegomaniakGadgetoid: utter crap19:22
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Gadgetoidmeegomaniak: shame :(19:22
kerioMohammadAG: what would be the course of action for a new n900 reflash as of now?19:23
kerioflash pr1.3, update everything, then cssu?19:23
GadgetoidI really liked the n900 as a piece of hardware,  but it lost out to the iPhone 419:23
DocScrutinizermeegomaniak: please stop telling BS. For the "not missing" A) you don't know if they come to you in 12 months asking for it. B) it's much more expensive to reclaim a device than to produce a new one19:23
chem|stkerio: yes19:23
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DocScrutinizerdarn this MUST be Friday today19:24
DocScrutinizer:-S19:24
meegomaniakDocscrutinizer: BS??? Care to explain?19:24
DocScrutinizermeegomaniak: I did in very same post line19:24
DocScrutinizerjust read19:24
GadgetoidMy brain has esplode19:25
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wmaroneDocScrutinizer: ignore him, he got banned from #meego for being needlessly antagonistic and uncooperative19:25
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DocScrutinizerI see19:25
meegomaniakdocscrutinizer: how is that referring to me????? I didnt tell anybody 'not missing'. You're confused.19:25
wmaronehe'll just keep this crap up for hours on end19:25
DocScrutinizerwell, trolls chatting with trolls, my dream19:26
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meegomaniakWmarone: hello mate, have we met?19:26
wmaroneyes, MeegoBoy19:26
DocScrutinizermeegomaniak: OK, sorry, that's been Gadgetoid19:27
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wmaroneor are you unfamiliar with the fact that your whois is exactly the same as yesterday?19:27
meegomaniakWmarone: i beg your pardon?19:27
meegomaniakDocscrutinizer: thank you.19:27
GadgetoidI can't figure out whether or not I'm being called a troll... so I'm just going to slink away and look through the repos19:27
TiagoTiagodid i miss the msg or no one answered my question about conditional overwriting?19:27
DocScrutinizerwmarone: ssshhhhhhh!19:27
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meegomaniakPlease let's all take a deep breath - no name calling please. We're all free to express our opinions.19:28
xDaReaperxthe N900's temperature should not rise upto 40 C right ?19:28
xDaReaperxis that too high ?19:28
wmaronexDaReaperx: what on earth are you doing?19:28
xDaReaperxi think thats the batteries temp ?19:28
DocScrutinizermeegomaniak: please refrain from posting such very wise general advice19:29
xDaReaperxnothing19:29
keriomeegomaniak: no we're... not?19:29
xDaReaperxwhen i charge it usually goes high19:29
xDaReaperxuhm charge and surf the net that is19:29
keriointernet is not a democracy, IRC is not a democracy, freenode is not a democracy and #maemo *definetely* is not a democracy19:29
meegomaniakDocscrutinizer: i have 3 very important words for you to ponder: freedom of speech19:29
DocScrutinizerxDaReaperx: the temp as seen in some monitors? Is usually die (chip) temp of charger chip, and doesn't mean a lot19:30
Gadgetoidkerio: What is it, a camel!?19:30
keriomeegomaniak: again, doesn't apply here19:30
DocScrutinizermeegomaniak: second warning19:30
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chem|stmeegomaniak: 6 words... up the shut fsck you must19:30
xDaReaperxDocScrutinizer : oh okay yeah i was checking it out in QCPUFreq19:30
Gadgetoid=/ why do people think freedom of speech applies to forums and IRC channels!?19:30
xDaReaperxnow its 29C19:30
meegomaniakXdaReaperx: way too high...19:31
xDaReaperxi dunno it dosent go any less here19:31
DocScrutinizerxDaReaperx: somewhere near 130° it will shut down charging ;-D19:31
TiagoTiagoit applies, the governament can't punish you for stuff you say there :P19:31
meegomaniakXdaReaperx: mine never reached that19:31
xDaReaperxyou mean 29 C ?19:31
meegomaniakXdaReaperx: something wrong with the circuitry19:31
DocScrutinizermeegomaniak: nonsense19:31
xDaReaperxlol i'm scared now19:32
meegomaniakDocscrutinizer: why? Just a suggestion19:32
DocScrutinizerxDaReaperx: ignore that19:32
xDaReaperxok19:32
GadgetoidTiagoTiago: true, I suppose, but you've no freedom to speak out in ways that ops find objectionable... that's a simple fact of maintaining a pleasant, structured place to talk about a specific topic19:32
meegomaniakXdaReaperx: flash your n900 clean19:32
keriocan we please kickban him19:32
ieatlintmeegomaniak: what happened to you? canadians are usually so polite?19:32
meegomaniakKerio: why?19:32
meegomaniakIeatlint: we are, just as Elop is19:32
GadgetoidDoes anyone here use Flux (the crazy screen warming/adjusting application)?19:33
TiagoTiagotechnicly you do have that freedom, but the moderators etc also got the freedom to ban your ass19:33
DocScrutinizermeegomaniak: LAST warning. Stop BS like suggesting somebody a full flash to fix an inexistent problem!19:33
meegomaniakTiagoTiago: of course19:33
ieatlintmeegomaniak: no, you must have mistaken asshole with politeness19:33
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meegomaniakIeatlint: nice language ... Show me once where i abused somebody like you just did19:34
chem|ststill godwin's law applies...19:34
ieatlintno, you were more indirect19:34
ieatlinti just went straight for it19:34
GadgetoidYeeesh... I feel like one mis-phrased request for juicy Maemo news has sparked a fire of passive aggressive trollism19:34
meegomaniakIeatlint: wrong19:34
chem|stdoes not matter what you say anymore19:34
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meegomaniakDont I have a right to express my opinion without offending anyone in particular?19:35
ieatlintwell, i feel i was pretty direct at least19:35
chx_afkmeegomaniak: you dont19:35
chx_afkmeegomaniak: you are mistaken if you think you are19:35
meegomaniakChx_afk: i do19:35
chem|stmeegomaniak: calling people in here nazis...19:35
chx_afkmeegomaniak: this is not a public place19:35
chx_afkmeegomaniak: freedom of speech does not apply.19:35
meegomaniakChx_afk: did you not understand that was a joke when i said nazis? Subtle humour my friend.19:36
Venemohey guys19:36
merlin1991hey venemo :D19:36
chx_afkmeegomaniak: DocScrutinizer is imo too patient with you.19:36
DocScrutinizerI'll put an end to this now19:36
Venemohello merlin1991 :)19:36
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GadgetoidThe true impact of the term "nazis" seems to have been lost, everyone thinks the war was "half a decade" ago, and the only people who talk about it anymore are old and jewish... it's sad... we're doomed to forget our past and thus repeat it...  errr...  sorry, I went off a bit there19:36
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Venemomeegomaniak: hey! who're you?19:36
chem|stmeegomaniak: ok then one more... YOU ARE NOT FUNNY!19:37
DocScrutinizerit's finshed, please move on. Nothing to see here19:37
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chx_afkcan we get back to our beloved, abandoned by the powers up high OS? :)19:37
TiagoTiagothere actually still are some real nazis out there, they just don't got the same level of military power as they once did19:38
GadgetoidThe whole free world united to fight for their freedom... what have we got to show for that these days? The best we can do is leave the protesting up to misguided internet hacker groups whilst we sit on our laurels and discuss why the world is going to hell whilst we sit on our laurels...19:38
TiagoTiagooh, sorry, took too long writing, please nvm me if necessary19:38
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DocScrutinizerGadgetoid: please check repositories and #maemo-ssu for quite a bit of news about a quite vivid zombie19:41
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GadgetoidDocScrutinizer: ssu, eh? that's cropped up recently then, because I have no idea what it means. A focussed community effort to keep the maemo flame alive, I presume?19:42
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DocScrutinizerSeamless Software Update, and CSSU for Community-SSU19:43
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GadgetoidDocScrutinizer: Think I might install it, and see how it goes... as this n900 isn't mission critical, it's worth a try19:47
henezHi19:49
DocScrutinizerGadgetoid: we even got USB hostmode to work19:49
DocScrutinizerGadgetoid: something Nokia claimed was completely impossible on N90019:50
henezI'm using an external device with the host mode and I get this error: ENOSPC28/* No space left on device */19:50
GadgetoidDocScrutinizer:  Nice work! I didn't really use it on the N810 for much, but it's handy to hook up an external hard drive for music19:50
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henezit's a camera19:50
henezhas anyone ever had this type of error?19:51
villagerhenez: yes, every time my disk got full...19:52
villagerhenez: you should probably say what you're trying to do...19:52
henezvillager, :D19:52
henezI'm trying to make this camera work19:52
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henezwith the n90019:52
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villagerbut what exactly gave that error?19:52
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TiagoTiagowell, i'm heading off, cya19:52
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DocScrutinizercya TiagoTiago19:53
henezdebugging and debugging I find out that the error is due to this19:53
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henezdo you know if anyone has succeed to make a camera work with the n900?19:53
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GadgetoidCripes. I don't even have PR1.3 installed yet20:00
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DocScrutinizeryes, I made cameras work with N900 - these were via HTTP in a flash plugin though, and were streamed via WLAN and internet. If your camera is doing the same streaming, then there's no reason why it wouldn't work via USB20:01
DocScrutinizerusually a random "webcam" isn't working like that though. You'll need a proper driver, and you need to start an app that reads from that driver and does whatever useful thing to the video data, like displaying on screen, storing to disk, whatever20:02
GadgetoidHm. No UK variant of PR 1.3. Global it is, then!20:02
DocScrutinizerglobal FTW20:03
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ieatlint"wtf labolg" is that in reverse, and it's awesome20:04
DocScrutinizerlol20:04
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DocScrutinizer~reverse wtf labolg20:05
infobotglobal ftw20:05
DocScrutinizer~botsnack20:05
infobotDocScrutinizer: thanks20:05
henezDocScrutinizer, uhm20:06
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DocScrutinizerhenez: I suggest you make the cam work on your linux desktop PC, check what it needs to do so (which driver, which app), then get or port those driver and app bits to/on maemo, and odds are you're fine with that20:08
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henezyep20:08
GAN900Talk was more entertaining when there were intelligent people in the mix.20:08
henezin my computer works20:08
henezit doesn't work with the n90020:09
GAN900Now it's not so fun watching a bunch of people be wrong on the Internet.20:09
Proteousheh20:09
henezthe camera is recognised because the leds are on20:09
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: shal I -q some of the intelligent people? ;-P20:09
DocScrutinizerhenez: LEDs not always mean much. This can just signal a working +5V20:10
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henezDocScrutinizer, kk20:12
DocScrutinizerhenez: I still fail to get it where from you got that error msg20:12
DocScrutinizerhenez: where does it show up? when does it show up?20:13
henezit shows up during the initialization of the device20:13
henezI'm not able to get any frames20:13
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DocScrutinizerhenez: I do not know when the device is initializing20:14
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henezuhm20:14
DocScrutinizerand I still miss to understand where it shows and who's throwing that error20:14
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DocScrutinizerhenez: please pretend you're stupid, and explain in *simple* words what you do, see, and plan to do20:15
henezit's hard to explain without see the code20:15
henezmaybe I need to copy it20:15
DocScrutinizerwhy do you need any code?20:16
henezto explain better20:16
DocScrutinizeryou need a DRIVER, and something like a lengthy commandline to gstreamer20:16
DocScrutinizeryour device to use most likely is /dev/video220:17
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henezuhm got it20:17
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DocScrutinizerso you use that device to stream the video to e.g your screen20:17
DocScrutinizerif that's working you can start developing whatever nifty app using same device20:17
henezok20:17
henezthanks20:18
GAN900DocScrutinizer, we lost IQ critical mass. So all of the old guard moved here or elsewhere.20:18
DocScrutinizer/dev/video2 will show up automatically if you got the proper *driver* for that cam20:18
henezuhm ok20:18
DocScrutinizerhenez: so check what driver exactly is the one used on your x86 PC, for that cam20:18
DocScrutinizerthen get that driver on maemo... profit20:19
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: no, *I* lost critical IQ mass20:20
henezok20:20
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DocScrutinizerprobably during last booze20:20
henezDocScrutinizer, I m using that driver on maemo20:20
henezI ported it20:20
DocScrutinizeroh, ok. So does it work?20:20
henezno, there is that error :D20:21
DocScrutinizerin syslog?20:21
henezit's that I was talking about.. I have not explained myself well sorry20:21
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henezI get that error debugging20:21
henezit's an errno message20:22
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DocScrutinizermy suggestion still applies:  please pretend you're stupid, and explain in *simple* words what you do, see, and plan to do20:23
DocScrutinizerand esp what you did20:23
DocScrutinizernobody will be able to help you unless we can reproduce your exact steps taken20:24
henezyou're right20:25
henezI'm going home unfortunately20:26
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henezthank you20:27
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DocScrutinizerwhat's that eduroam thing?20:28
DocScrutinizeras in menos@eduroam-wireless-pat3.wireless.bris.ac.uk20:28
DocScrutinizerroaming on campus?20:29
GadgetoidWoo... now installing community SSU20:29
mecepalm is announcing20:29
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DocScrutinizeris announcing... (eliptic statement?)20:30
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mecewell we don't yet know what :)20:31
mecesince it's not announced yet.20:31
DocScrutinizeroh, so they announced they're going to announce?20:31
mecewell they are having some kind of whatever it is you have when you announce new products and whatnot20:31
DocScrutinizerred ears?20:32
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meceyesterday I was excited about what nokia was gonna say friday, Now I'm scared.20:32
meceDocScrutinizer, LOL right.20:32
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DocScrutinizerI'm already bored20:33
DocScrutinizerwhatever they annouce, it can't get worse20:33
luke-jrthey're going to announce that they will be announcing a new product soon.20:34
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DocScrutinizers/ annouce/'re going to say/20:34
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: whatever they're going to say, it can't get worse20:34
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GadgetoidCommunity SSU installed... I think20:35
GadgetoidWonder what I did with my USB gender changer20:35
DocScrutinizerwell, they could say they're going to shut down garage and wiki in the afternoon - that'd be actually worse than what it's now20:36
GadgetoidDocScrutinizer: !!! don't even think it!20:36
GadgetoidWho the hell operates Maemo.org, anyway?20:36
DocScrutinizerNokia, mostly?20:37
DocScrutinizerthough it's hosted elsewhere20:37
Gadgetoid*tremble*20:37
DocScrutinizertmo is completely separate, as it's been tablettalk formerly20:38
meceapparently they killed off the palm brand... O.o20:38
DocScrutinizerHewlett Palmard?20:39
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mecehehe20:39
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meceHP Pre3 for summer apparently.20:39
DocScrutinizerHistorically Palm Pre3 ;-D20:40
meceyep20:40
mecehp touchpad http://www.flickr.com/photos/webosroundup/5431067071/20:41
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meceaka the hp "meh"20:41
GadgetoidTime to break out my game gripper!20:41
meceor i dunno. maybe it's good. It's not android and not apple. So that's a good thing20:41
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meceGadgetoid, Ooh I have that too. I just need to find it. What are you playing?20:41
Gadgetoidmece: Megadrive games, probably!20:42
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meceI play a lot of snes20:42
GadgetoidHOLY SHIT!20:42
GadgetoidUSB Host! + Retrode!20:42
Gadgetoid= AWESOME!20:42
mecehmm 1.2ghz dual core on the touchpad. That's nice.20:42
GadgetoidThat just clicked! I ordered one of the last 15 retrodes a few days ago20:43
mecewhat's a retrode?20:43
GadgetoidIt turns Megadrive/SNES cartridges into USB mass storage... more or less20:43
DocScrutinizeranode, cathode tetrode...20:43
GadgetoidPresents them as ROMs, with writable save states for SNES20:43
DocScrutinizerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrode20:45
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GAN900RIP Palm20:45
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Gadgetoidjust-eat.co.uk is the best website on the internet.20:48
GadgetoidWe would die of starvation without it!20:48
piggzGadgetoid: you work there? ;)20:48
Gadgetoidpiggz: no affiliation with it whatsoever...20:49
GadgetoidBut if I didn't have my wife, I would die without it20:49
GadgetoidI'm useless at cooking, lazy and hate phones and the outdoors20:49
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GadgetoidIt's like the (mythical?) /pizza command in World of Warcraft20:50
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meceoh man these new notpalm phones are horrendously ugly. Just like the previous ones. Go figure.20:54
mecethe touchpad looks like an ipad. Whoda thunk it?20:55
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GAN900mece, don't like the Pre?20:55
GadgetoidIt bothers me that Picodrive doesn't go SEEEGAAAA20:56
mecenever tried it. but it I think fugly is an apt description of the design20:56
meceimo20:56
* javispedro kinda likes it, it actually resembles the N90020:57
javispedroin both color and general shape20:57
GAN900Yeah, I kinda like the looks.20:57
MohammadAGand support? :P20:57
GAN900Portrait and low screen resolution suck, though.20:57
javispedrowell that's fixed on the pre320:57
javispedro(lores)20:57
meceyep20:57
* javispedro however isn't exactly sold yet on the screen size20:58
mecewait.. what am I looking at?20:58
mecewhere's a pic of the pre3?20:58
javispedro3.6 inch20:58
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mecethe thing I'm looking at looks exactly like a pre20:59
mecelooks like a phone that has eaten too many donuts20:59
meceooh that's the veer20:59
MohammadAGI see the pre as a big pebble20:59
GadgetoidWell... SSU seems to work... no explosions yet20:59
MohammadAGa sexy one21:00
javispedrotbh there's something in the proportions of the pre3 that throws me off.21:00
javispedrowhat they did there?21:00
GadgetoidColour me impressed!21:00
MohammadAGGadgetoid, haven't hit the detonate button, yet21:00
meceGadgetoid, works smooth :)21:00
GadgetoidMohammadAG: I don't have that much of an interest in it... but if you're going to guilt trip me into it!21:00
GadgetoidI'm a dirty iPhone user21:00
mececan I have an url to a pic of pre3?21:00
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meceShun! SHUN! Gadgetoid!!!21:01
mece;)21:01
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MohammadAGQML's pathview is neat21:01
GadgetoidiOS and Maemo are where my heart lies... Android, not so much21:01
javispedromece: engadget21:02
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mecethanks. found on palm site :)21:02
javispedroa pity the palm brand is over.21:02
javispedroSeems I'm getting older and older...21:03
mecewell it looks like an n900 that has eaten too many burgers21:03
GAN900webOS tablet is something I could get behind.21:03
meceGAN900, ditto.21:03
GAN900You too, eh, Javier? ;)21:03
mecealthough I would prefer a meego tablet21:03
javispedroGAN900: :D21:04
togglesmmmmmmm... meego21:04
meceit all depends on the amount of facepalm come friday...21:04
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javispedroI also believe that the smallish Veer thing will have its share too. Risky though.21:05
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mecehow much does an ipad weigh?21:08
javispedroQuick Elop, go ask these guys for the UI.21:08
mecehehe21:08
javispedroyou still have time until Friday!!21:08
mecehmm apparently you can answer calls on the touchpad...21:10
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GAN900mece, me too, but I really think webOS is well suited to the tablet.21:12
mecenever seen it. But they have a cool community. Second best in mobile ;)21:12
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javispedrothey have drnoksnes. that's all that matters! ;)21:13
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javispedrothis pre3 its actually larger than the n900.21:15
javispedro*is21:15
javispedrobut slimmer, seemingly.21:15
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javispedroless battery, pfft.21:16
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javispedromagnetometer, no stereo speakers, and 24-bit color depth (something I could believe as the webos actually defaults to 24bpp)21:18
javispedronot perfect. now let's see what Nokia has in store.21:19
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GAN900I'd consider it if it were a landscape slider.21:20
GAN900Assuming Nokia's got shit.21:20
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javispedrobtw they're a Qualcomm convert.21:21
javispedropreviously a TI-only house, now they got the Qualcomm CEO on scene.21:21
meceyeah. dualcore snapdragon in the touchpad21:22
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meceooh.. everyone's favorite eldar says "change of OS is a absurd idea."21:23
mece(about nokia)21:23
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chxqualcomm that's one unlikely story isnt it. inventor of the crappy CDMA standards ( no data and speech at the same time, blah ) , supplier of an equally crappy mobile platform (BREW)  somehow transformed itself into the supplier of chips for all smartphones, including the very very high end21:26
zap_So... windows mobile is the way Nokia go?21:27
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javispedroand it even COMES WITH MUSIC!! ( sigh )21:27
piggzchx: ha, i still have a brew phone somewhere21:28
chxzap: i refuse to believe that21:28
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GAN900javispedro, I should probably label myself a TI fanboy.21:30
javispedroyeah, I have to admit their outlook to OSS is one of the best if not the best.21:30
zapthis is microsoft's last poisoned gasp... got us21:30
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GAN900It's too bad they're victims of the MHz Myth: Part Deuce.21:32
* DocScrutinizer pulls all the bits from outside world to his 10TB HDD array, to form his private maemo-N900 universe, then cuts wires and nails the doors21:32
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* javispedro hacks into DocScrutinizer's little universe and insert ads about the iPhone21:33
DocScrutinizerWAAAAHHH21:33
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javispedrowait until Friday, then you're really going to want to have a private universe :)21:33
mecezap, no.21:34
mecezap, some microsoft services in ovi21:34
meceI also <3 TI21:34
mecebut my TI-85 broke :(21:35
zapi'd say: let windows mobile die, at last21:35
meceunrelated but bwaaahahahahahaaaa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gIsKdzqFI821:36
GadgetoidDamn. I forgot that SIXAD requires setup on a PC to get the blasted PS3 controllers to pair21:37
GAN900mece, clearly an excellent excuse to get a TI-89ti21:37
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DocScrutinizerget a *real* decent hardware, get a HP calculator21:38
GadgetoidOr an abacus21:39
GadgetoidWhat the what. HP TouchPad, HP Veer and HP Pre3?21:39
GadgetoidHP Pre!?21:39
DocScrutinizeroh, lol. Recently some weird young reporters in TV called abacus slide rule21:40
DocScrutinizerin German of course21:40
GadgetoidI'm pretty sure WebOS is the most awful abomination of an OS I've ever had the displeasure to try and use... but I might have been biased slightly21:40
DocScrutinizerHistorically Palm Pre21:40
GadgetoidEven Compaq sounded better21:42
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GadgetoidWhy on earth would anyone shed a brand like Palm, it boggles the mind21:42
DocScrutinizerGadgetoid: you have to see where they're coming from. Palm Pilot OS had no file system, and no way to start apps, and no storage but only battery buffered or flash mirrored memory aka RAM21:43
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GadgetoidPalm OS is awesome, I bought an m505 recently... the damned thing is so fast21:43
javispedroand it was the best!21:43
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GadgetoidEverything is just *there*, instantaneously, just how an embedded device should work21:44
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DocScrutinizeryeah that's truely embedded21:44
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pupnik_i agree Gadgetoid21:44
pupnik_that's what using the psion felt like also21:44
GadgetoidAnd the hardware itself is a thing of beauty, too, the brand "Palm" carries so much weight with anyone who knows dick about mobile devices21:44
GadgetoidI wish I owned a Psion 5, even now21:45
pupnik_i have a 5mx with cracked screen21:45
javispedroGadgetoid: it being dropped means how much people know about mobile devices these days.21:45
GadgetoidI got my wife to buy one, once upon a time, but her dad made her take it back... it was ÂŁ500 back then21:45
javispedroGadgetoid: that, or that we're getting old :(21:45
Gadgetoidjavispedro: A little of both, I think21:45
DocScrutinizerheh if you don't like the name Palm, so what'S about handspring then?21:45
GadgetoidMobile device have become a commodity, taken for granted, and unappreciated21:46
GadgetoidHandspring Visor :D :D21:46
RST38hmoo21:46
DocScrutinizerhehehe21:46
pupnik_symbian feels pretty fast to me as well21:47
DocScrutinizerI wonder if that's been even before some Geordy La Forge stared out of TV with his visor21:47
GadgetoidHmm, I think Symbian went through a bit of a rough time, seems to be pulling out of it now21:47
RST38hpupnik: depends. it gets slower as you install more stuff21:48
GadgetoidBut it still feels a little bit cheap21:48
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javispedrowtf.21:56
javispedroWebOS for printers.21:56
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javispedroHP, can you just think something else other than your fscking printers.21:56
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ShadowJKWebOS on the toner carts21:57
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ShadowJKWebOS on the ethernet switches21:57
mikhasWebOS on print paper.21:57
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RST38hThe printer thing is nothing special21:58
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RST38hHP had removable PDA-like tablets in their printers for a while21:58
DocScrutinizerWebOS on toilet paper21:58
RST38hSo, I guess they just replaced android with webos there21:58
ShadowJKMicrosoft Toner Cartridge: touchscreen that faces inwards in the printer and requires you to somehow read a code from it and repeat it loud on the phone to a ms activation agent before you get code that makes it dispense toner21:59
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mikhasyou need specifically (braille-) crafted paper to use the touch screen, problem solved21:59
* DocScrutinizer ponders sitting on the toilet, activating the sheet of toilet paper22:00
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: "Activation failure. Your ass is not genuine Microsoft Software. You will not able to get our free Microsoft Genuine Advantage Extra Applications for it."22:01
GadgetoidI don't know why Microsoft bother with all that activation nonsense... *sigh*22:01
GadgetoidAt this juncture they should be grateful for every user they get, pirated or not22:02
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pupnik_they tried to prevent TCP/IP from getting a foothold in households Gadgetoid22:03
Gadgetoidpupnik_: Whatwhatwhat!?22:04
pupnik_microsoft tried to prevent a networking standard22:04
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Gadgetoid...22:04
pupnik_and force users to use their own proprietary one22:04
GadgetoidMind. Blown.22:04
pupnik_yep22:04
GadgetoidNetbios?22:04
pupnik_yep22:04
GadgetoidYou're kidding, right?22:04
pupnik_netbios/netbeui22:04
pupnik_nope22:04
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javispedrohe's not kidding.22:05
GadgetoidThat brings back memories, awful awful memories22:05
GadgetoidOf coaxial networking, and things not fucking working unless the almighty magic netbios was enabled22:05
javispedrothey also tried to prevent the www (see The MSN) however everyone used to do that back then.22:05
pupnikyep22:05
ieatlinti always wanted to get the custom licence plate for my car "NETBEUI"22:05
ieatlintlast i checked, it was still available22:05
GadgetoidHaha, I know a guy who sells custom license plates22:05
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ieatlintas a friend once commented, if i did, i'd have to honk my horn every couple minutes and shout "HERE I AM!"22:06
Gadgetoidieatlint: Ahahahahahahahahaha *cries*22:06
GadgetoidFortunately I'm just a youngling, so I didn't experience the full brunt of Windows networking fuckupery22:06
ieatlintbtw, has anyone else noticed that you can't take pictures on the n900 while in a phone call?22:07
ieatlintgives an audio device in use error22:07
GadgetoidIt seriously errors because it can't play a snapshot sound!?22:07
ieatlintand i have the sound disabled at that22:08
pupniki think it's important to remind people how evil MS was22:08
pupnikand how the world could have been a much worse place if they'd won all their battles22:08
Gadgetoidpupnik: It's totally like what Apple are doing to the Flash standard!22:08
mikhaspupnik, nah. I think it's important to let the MS hatred fade away22:08
* Gadgetoid laughs hysterically22:08
kerioGadgetoid: lol22:08
ieatlint  mikhas i'll agree with you only if the wm7/nokia rumours aren't true22:10
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pupnikmikhas: hate becomes the shape of your mind22:10
mikhasso poetic22:10
pupnikthank you22:10
ieatlinthate leads to fear, fear leads to the dark side, etc22:11
pupnikdisagree22:11
GadgetoidThat's racist!22:11
pupnikthe 'shape of your mind' thing is from buddhism22:11
ieatlintGadgetoid: if you're shocked by that, then we clearly haven't met22:12
ieatlintpupnik: star wars is more popular than buddhism around here... i'll stick with it22:12
Gadgetoidieatlint: I'm not shocked by anything, I just feign disgust so that people think I have some humanity left22:12
pupnikheh22:12
Gadgetoid( except electricity, that's shocking! )22:12
GadgetoidErr... my brain has imploded22:13
pupnikbetter to light a candle than curse the darkness22:13
GadgetoidInstead of "ssh root@10.0.1.28" I simply typed root @ 10.0.1.28  as if it would magically work22:13
ieatlintbetter to accept that darkness than fight it22:13
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ieatlintsee 4chan for details22:14
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GadgetoidOh woe is me, I think getting gcc and libusb on maemo is going to be... fun?22:16
GadgetoidAhh well, I'm so used to circumventing apt due to my horribly broken dependencies on my AppleTV22:18
keriolol appletv22:19
Gadgetoidlol all you like, it's got teh bluetooth!22:19
keriodon't be cheap, build yourself a HTPC22:19
GadgetoidI did. Gave it away.22:20
kerio._.22:20
keriowhy didn't you give it to me?22:20
GadgetoidHaha, I gave it to my sister... it was a bit ungainly and I never used it22:21
Gadgetoidalways preferred something a little more specialist22:21
kerioi suppose having some network storage with a PS3 would work just as well22:22
GAN900HP can get Kindle, but Nokia can't. . . .22:24
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ieatlintfounder of DEC, ken olsen, died22:26
RST38hGAN900: Nokia can get Microsoft, HP can't22:27
RST38hieatlint: :(22:27
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GadgetoidInteresting, compiled sixpair22:28
GadgetoidLooks like a reboot is in order, for the hostmode enabled kernel22:29
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GadgetoidAha, I think I've bricked it22:33
GadgetoidOr not22:33
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GadgetoidArgh, misplaced my USB gender changer22:41
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Venemoalterego: ping22:45
Venemoachipa1: this is ridiculous: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTSDK-49122:47
achipa1Venemo: what the...22:48
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Venemoachipa1: it's just a damn checkbox on a GUI that needs to be enabled :P22:49
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: imagine, someone did tell me the solution22:50
VenemoDocScrutinizer: there's a package, maemo-version (which others pointed me to), but it only exists in the SDK repository. so I removed it from the Depends and added it just to build-depends and now it all seems to work :)22:51
DocScrutinizerGadgetoid: then watch a video instead ;-D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ&NR=122:53
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achipa1Venemo: you want to "confuse developers" ! :P22:53
Venemoachipa1: yes, I do! :D22:55
Venemoachipa1: because having 3 Qt Creators in my applications menu is not confusing at all22:55
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GadgetoidAhh, I haz failed23:03
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GadgetoidI have the crappiest USB hub in the universe, which doesn't help23:04
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ArGGu^^Is nokia completely ditching meego? :S23:08
VenemoArGGu^^: ???23:09
javispedro"Meegi"!23:09
ArGGu^^well N9 is not coming :S23:09
BCMMVenemo: i think i just heard a rumour! better post it on the forums ASAP!23:09
DocScrutinizerFUD23:09
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: feel like chaging the topic? ;)23:10
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wmaroneoh the N9 will be coming, just not with the hardware that it had :)23:10
VenemoBCMM: :D23:10
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: suggestions?23:10
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javispedro:P23:10
Proteous"GET TO YOUR FALLOUT SHELTERS, NOKIA IS GOING CRAZY"23:10
Proteoushow about that23:10
Venemothere was no announcement about the 'N9', thus it can't be 'not coming' either23:11
DocScrutinizerAWAKE! THIS IS THE *INTERNET* - the place were nothing but the mere truth is written23:11
ProteousVenemo it can't be not never not coming either23:12
ArGGu^^So the "News" are only rumours?23:12
wmaroneArGGu^^: rumors, speculation, FUD, hope, etc.23:12
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VenemoArGGu^^: unless you can prove them23:12
ArGGu^^It would be good there is not any other OS that I would want23:12
BCMMArGGu^^: reuters is pretty good, yes. but all it said was " two industry sources close to the company said"23:12
wmaronethe only sane thing to do is sit back and watch the fireworks23:12
ArGGu^^expect kubuntu mobile could be nice23:13
Proteouswhen will nokia release the OTA update that disables cell phone functionality of the n900?23:13
*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | YES WE HEARD IT! NO WE AREN'T INTERESTED. Take FUD to ##defocus!"23:13
javispedrohaha :)23:13
*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | YES WE HEARD IT! NO WE AREN'T INTERESTED. Take FUD to ##defocus !"23:13
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer23:14
Venemolol DocScrutinizer :)23:14
javispedrothat will be fine until next week23:14
GAN900Did you hear Nokia's switching to WinCE.23:14
Proteousheh23:14
javispedro#deFUDcus23:14
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Venemobye-bye23:14
GAN900Rumor has it they're moving HQ to Antarctica.23:14
Venemowill be back later23:15
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ProteousAntarctica is a great tax haven23:15
wmaroneGAN900: it's to get closer to the penguins23:15
BCMMProteous: i think Antarctica is like space or military service23:16
BCMMyour country will tax you anyway23:16
Proteousheh23:16
Proteouswhat if the iceberg you are on floats into international waters23:16
Proteousthen anything is possible!!23:16
ProteousI'm thinking monkey knife fights23:17
GAN900Proteous, good thinking.23:18
javispedrothis just in: next Nokia device to be called the Nokia Mars.23:18
BCMMironically, it will not be "candybar" shaped23:18
GAN900We already had Rover23:18
Proteousheh23:18
GAN900and Sputnik.23:18
Proteousnokia "lunar lander"23:18
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GAN900Nokia Muffins23:19
ProteousMmmm23:19
GAN900I want some muffins.23:19
javispedroNokia Muffin Dispenser23:19
javispedromaybe that's the radical chance Elop is talking about23:20
Proteousheh23:20
Proteousthat is change I can get behind23:20
Proteousor infront of with my hands under the dispenser chute23:20
RST38hjavispedro: source?23:20
Proteousheh23:20
RST38hNokia Sun, and the will adopt the SPARC CPU!23:21
javispedroRST38h: comes from multiple trusted sources!23:21
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* DocScrutinizer wants a cryPhone mustard dispenser, for the stylus Wiener sausage23:21
javispedrothe gourmetPhone.23:21
Proteousbut once you eat your stylus coated with tasty tasty mustard you won't be able to use your phone!23:22
Proteousyou'll need a stylus dispenser23:22
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* javispedro is happy for some unknown reason today23:22
Proteousit's all the talk of muffins and mustard23:22
DocScrutinizernow that's a perfect product requirement specification for spyPhone623:22
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DocScrutinizercomes with mustard and Wiener dispenser23:23
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javispedrona, too many fingerprints on the screen.23:23
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ThreeMseperatly sold item23:24
Proteouswiener-prints?23:24
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DocScrutinizerautomatic screen wiper23:24
Proteousbrilliant!23:24
ThreeMavailable for only 39,0023:24
javispedroindeed!23:24
ThreeMmust have!23:24
javispedroautomatic screen wiper, card winshield style is something only Nokia could sell.23:25
javispedrowe have a winner!23:25
Proteousalthough if the smudges tasted like wiener-juice people might just lick the scren clean23:25
javispedro*car winshield ;)23:25
javispedro*windshield23:25
javispedrodammit23:25
ThreeMwith additional available wiener-app23:25
javispedrotoo many windows.23:25
Proteoussometimes I need to be shielded from win23:25
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* DocScrutinizer brushes out all the cookie crumbs from keyboard and into muesli23:26
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DocScrutinizerout>>423:27
_trineis meego now megone23:28
ieatlintthat sounds pretty horrid...23:28
_trinehttp://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/09/us-nokia-meego-idUSTRE71832O2011020923:28
DocScrutinizerI'm really really tempted to make a video of Wiener and mustard app on whyPhone, and publish it on uTube23:28
* javispedro bangs head again a wiener23:28
wmarone_trine: topic plx23:29
javispedroI mean, against a wall =)23:29
BCMMDocScrutinizer, got anything louder than caps?23:29
Proteousblinking text maybe?23:29
DocScrutinizeralas not23:29
DocScrutinizer/mode #maemo +m23:29
Proteousheh23:30
Proteous#maemo is on lockdown until further notice23:30
DocScrutinizerhehe23:30
BCMMyou could just /topic some rumours about other platforms...23:30
ieatlinti hear nokia is going to abandon the platform they spent millions of dollars to develop, hold a conference for, create alliances with a dozen other companies and a devkit (qt) that they spend billions on + are making an announcement on friday to try to  increase support for, in exchange for an unproven platform with smaller adoption and app base than symbian that's been out for only a few months (wm7)23:30
BCMMi heard the next iphone will run windows phone 723:31
ieatlintit sounds legit to me23:31
DocScrutinizer+m+i+q ~$a23:31
BCMMand android is removing support for apps in the next update.23:31
ieatlintnokia is bringing back qtopia23:31
ieatlintit'll be awesome23:31
javispedroyou are far from the truth, which is that next quarter every handheld is going to be running my own OS.23:31
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javispedroit's going to be featuring multi-optification!23:32
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ieatlintwill it support kinetic scrolling?23:32
ThreeMawesome!23:32
ieatlintbecause that's a +1 over qt/symbian!23:32
javispedroit will support relativistic scrolling.23:32
DocScrutinizerI heard iPhone OS *is* winmo7, just with a special skin23:32
_trinewell at the moment its pie in the sky23:32
BCMMjavispedro: a multiply-optified version of Darwin!23:32
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ieatlinti think nokia is already experiencing darwinism23:33
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DocScrutinizerI think the next OS replacing meego is called mc^223:34
ieatlintor SHR?23:34
ieatlint:P23:34
javispedroI'd wish someone used that as a trademark :)23:34
ieatlintmaybe nokia will join with samsung to do bada23:34
ThreeMwith hurd kernel23:34
javispedroBadaBingGo.23:35
BCMMand a BSD-derived userland.23:35
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DocScrutinizerbadaboom23:35
ieatlint"Nokia buys Solaris from Oracle as a new mobile phone platform"23:35
DocScrutinizerbig badabooom23:35
BCMMieatlint: ok, that would nearly be totally awesome23:35
DocScrutinizeras Willis said in "5th element"23:36
javispedroOk I'm going to use all of the Nokia inside knowledge I got from #maemo to write next rumours article.23:36
ThreeMi,ve heard duke nukem will apper on the next nokia platform23:36
ieatlintthe phone will just be a thinclient now, running VNC to a nokia server where they will decide how your phone runs23:36
BCMMjavispedro: i was starting to wonder, actually, whether the "two source close to the company" were in here23:36
BCMM^sources23:36
BCMMi mean, it didn't say they were *in* the company23:37
DocScrutinizerieatlint: nah, Apple has patents on that23:37
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javispedroeverytime I read that I usually laugh deep inside.23:37
chxthe big deal will be an x86 powered mobile device running Unity on Wayland.23:37
ThreeMlol23:37
BCMMchx: heh, that's the best so far23:37
ThreeMubuntu 12.0423:37
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: haha, i want to see apple get a patent on "controlling a user's device against their wishes"23:37
javispedro"sources close to the company" =) if anyone inside the company knew what they were planning to do, half of the problem would be solved already23:37
chxThreeM: yes, and it will be shipped ony then but announced now!@23:37
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ieatlintpretty soon apple will stop selling phones and start just leasing them23:38
Dhraakellianso, just out of curiosity (and a little worry), is there any truth to the rumors?23:38
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ieatlint"uh, you did something we don't like.  surrender your phone now"23:38
Dhraakellianthat Nokia will be slaughtering 1000 MS-supplied puppies on friday?23:38
wmaroneDhraakellian: no one knows23:38
ieatlintDhraakellian: that's good eatin'23:38
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: X-D23:38
BCMMieatlint: doubt it, that would actually benefit the customers, what with the non-replaceable battery and all23:38
wmaroneieatlint: in Korea!23:39
Dhraakellianwon't somebody please think of the kitte^Wpuppies‽23:39
ieatlintBCMM: no no, you just charge them $40/mo, and if they return it with scratches or similar, charge huge fees23:39
ieatlintit'll be like cars23:39
Dhraakellianheh23:39
wmaroneieatlint: but I own my car outright :/23:39
ieatlintyeah, but my comparison was to the leasing model for cars23:40
Dhraakelliantruthfully, my optimism is slipping, but in the end, we have the code23:40
pupnikhp/palm does the "many sizes" thing  http://blog.palm.com/palm/2011/02/hp-webos-the-next-big-thing-and-the-next-small-thing-too.html23:40
Dhraakellianand we still have the n900s we already bought23:40
ieatlintDhraakellian: you have code that's severely outdated23:40
wmaroneieatlint: which is the worst way to own a car23:40
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ieatlintand not enough to actually run the shit on the n900 even23:40
chxwell the question is, will they release harmattan or not23:40
chxwe know they have *something*23:40
ieatlintwmarone: yeah, well, i've never leased a car either... own mine outright23:40
Dhraakellianstop harshing my mellow, dude23:40
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DocScrutinizerieatlint: BZZZZZ! wrong23:41
BCMMall this FUD is being generated by Oracle, so they can buy Nokia cheaper.23:41
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: i'm never wrong23:41
pupnikoracle the tax parasite23:41
DhraakellianBCMM: and MS is allowing it because dead meego/handset is good for WP7?23:41
DocScrutinizerBCMM: that could be more true than you might think23:41
ieatlintif elison buys nokia, i'm going to cry and then curse him again23:41
* Dhraakellian goes to look for some epileptic trees23:41
pupnikelison is a tick23:42
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wmaroneieatlint: he's too busy choking down Sun's corpse23:42
DhraakellianSPOOOON!23:42
ieatlinteveryone hates elison...23:42
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chxbtw if http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/palm_pre/ this is possible then ... why not buy a HP Veer or something?23:42
DocScrutinizernot me23:42
DocScrutinizerNFC what's an elison23:42
wmaronechx: cause I can already do that23:42
ieatlintwmarone: we have to keep reminding him that he's not iron man23:43
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: ceo/founder of oracle is larry elison... about the most arrogant bastard you can imagine23:43
Dhraakellianieatlint: well, if he tries to fly in a metal suit and fails, we win, right?23:43
DocScrutinizerheh23:43
ieatlintDhraakellian: he's arrogant, not stupid23:43
wmaroneieatlint: if I see Larry Ellison flying through the sky in a metal suit.... I might buy Oracle stock23:43
javispedrohaha23:44
* DocScrutinizer tossing in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE just for the cheers23:44
ieatlintbut he also paid to have a cameo in iron man, and if you watch it, you'll see a LOT of oracle references in the movie23:44
* javispedro envisions Larry giving a press conference.... "Guys... I'm ... Ironman".23:44
BCMMi think we need to find a good Larry impersonator...23:45
DocScrutinizerI am your FATHER...23:45
Dhraakellianbut how would that compare to "developers! developers! developers!"?23:45
javispedroDocScrutinizer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbutnD0hVo423:45
ieatlinthe's known here for telling the FAA and a local airport to go fuck themselves (for landing a plane after hours), for shutting down a major street in san francisco once a week for his conference, and for renting an island in the san francisco bay for the party and fucking up traffic on a major bridge to it23:46
Dhraakelliansee, I should've clicked DocScrutinizer's link before saying anything23:46
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javispedroDevelopers, Developers, Developers, you guys matter! Develop for our platforms! Ignore the rumours that say they're burning!23:47
ieatlinti think he pays something like $2m just to have the street shut down for the week... maybe more23:47
pupniki can hear very faint crackling noises from my thinkpad23:47
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Proteouswhen they get to be loud crackling noises then you should worry23:48
Proteousnot before23:48
Proteousthen your backlight will go out23:48
pupnikfrom the ethernet port23:48
Proteousthen you replace the backlight transformer and go on23:48
Proteousstop trying to charge your battery with POE23:48
pupnikmaybe the vga port23:49
pupnikyeah i thought it must be the transformer for power as well Proteous23:50
LjLwhere can i get decent free crosswords for xword?23:50
pupnikmaybe it is - plugging in the power supply dampens the noise a lot23:50
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DocScrutinizerLjL: I'd think there's an app for that :-D23:54
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LjLDocScrutinizer, do you mean there's an app to fetch free crosswords? if so pointer please, i couldn't find anything :P23:56
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DocScrutinizerLjL: sorry no, just kidding23:59
LjLah. well there *is* an app for that... on Android :P *hides*23:59

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