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| * alterego wonders where the qt dbg packages are | 00:19 | |
| Venemo | alterego: sdk repo? | 00:20 |
|---|---|---|
| alterego | Hrm, yeah possibly. | 00:20 |
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| alterego | Ah yes, there it is. | 00:21 |
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| alterego | This should make things much easier. | 00:23 |
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| alterego | Hah, that ejection seat move in die hard 2 is brilliant | 00:28 |
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| alterego | Is it possible to install the dbg stuff to opt? | 00:37 |
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| Loveable_rouge | how does this work ! | 00:49 |
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| Sc0rpius | hmmm | 03:50 |
| Sc0rpius | the led pattern is not working in this modest, I'm not getting any led alert when I receive an email :( | 03:50 |
| Sc0rpius | variant string "PatternCommunicationEmail" | 03:51 |
| Sc0rpius | I don't think I have that | 03:52 |
| Sc0rpius | hmm I do, but still doesn't work | 03:52 |
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| Sc0rpius | hmmm | 04:01 |
| Sc0rpius | somehow "Email notifications light" was disabled in Settings | 04:02 |
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| jonwil | hmmm, my n900 isn't going to be fixed, its going to be replaced... | 04:09 |
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| jonwil | which probably means waiting ages for the new one to get here :( | 04:14 |
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| rodald | hi everyone, i just purchased joiku hotspot but when i get connected the max speed i was able to get was of only 225 kbps, is there anyway to make it faster? | 04:46 |
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| Failure-Peltonen | Truth: its slow | 04:46 |
| Failure-Peltonen | Same speeds as at that free one. | 04:47 |
| rodald | :_( | 04:48 |
| rodald | is there a better option to get connected? | 04:49 |
| Failure-Peltonen | Well never tried but if i have understood right, its able to share connection trough usb and bluetooth, which ones should have better speeds. | 04:50 |
| Failure-Peltonen | Maybe possible through OVI suite. | 04:51 |
| rodald | well thru usb with nokia pc suite it was worst only 156 kbps | 04:51 |
| Failure-Peltonen | Really? | 04:52 |
| Failure-Peltonen | Have you ever tried through ovi suite? | 04:52 |
| Failure-Peltonen | if thats correct info, i can say this phone "tablet" really sux, i hate it anyways -.- | 04:52 |
| rodald | not yet, do you think it would be faster? | 04:53 |
| Failure-Peltonen | its slow and crap to use. Whats worst, you cant never trust it. | 04:53 |
| Failure-Peltonen | Well it is possible, as i did read of tethering with ovi suite. | 04:53 |
| rodald | well i love the n900 i just hate the internet connection thru it | 04:53 |
| Failure-Peltonen | I were self testing it on my laptop, but my space on C drive did make end :< and its not possible (as i know) to install to other drive. | 04:54 |
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| Failure-Peltonen | My own n900 gets stuck and jammed all of the time. And if i have a buss to catch and i want to know schedule of that buss, or something else what i really need "NOW! and FAST" it wont do anything, browser freezes etc. | 04:55 |
| nox- | are you using fennec or have a lot of other things open besides the browser when that happens? | 04:57 |
| Failure-Peltonen | nox-: i have been using microb and tried opera. Opera is good but it loads allways if possible a mobile version! :< | 04:57 |
| Failure-Peltonen | and what comes with fennec, didnt like of it either, coz its also slow | 04:58 |
| nox- | yeah fennec as someone else here once put it, `eats ram like candy' :/ | 04:58 |
| Failure-Peltonen | yep | 04:58 |
| Failure-Peltonen | Id really would like to use android on my n900. but its not stable yet and problems with calling. | 04:59 |
| nox- | but microb by ifself mostly works for me... | 04:59 |
| nox- | ifself even | 04:59 |
| nox- | itself | 04:59 |
| nox- | bah | 04:59 |
| Failure-Peltonen | it works if you have time. If you are in wc and try to do something useless it works | 05:00 |
| Failure-Peltonen | but if you really need something, it has allkind of problems :D | 05:00 |
| Failure-Peltonen | brb. | 05:01 |
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| rodald | im happy enough with microb it only gets stuck when the page has too much content, but after that it works fine | 05:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa: NEVER played Fallout. . . . | 05:51 |
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| * Dhraakellian sees https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9150 linked from the Marble thread and wonders if it's what he's been getting | 06:56 | |
| povbot | Bug 9150: Device doesn't respond via UI. syslog reports HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered, sgx_misr eating all CPU | 06:56 |
| * Dhraakellian reads further | 06:56 | |
| * Dhraakellian ponders leaving ssh enabled | 06:56 | |
| pupnik | hm | 06:57 |
| Dhraakellian | I'll take the n900 out of my pocket, and it appears to be off | 06:58 |
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| noodles900 | Dhraakellian: the slider used to open a tiny bit in my pocket and then random pressings of the screen made all kinds of shit happen. I bought a leather case for the n900 - problem solved ;) | 07:00 |
| Dhraakellian | hmm | 07:00 |
| Dhraakellian | I don't think that's what's happening, but maybe | 07:00 |
| Dhraakellian | I think it's happened outside of my pocket, but I'm not entirely sure | 07:00 |
| Dhraakellian | hmm | 07:01 |
| Dhraakellian | device isn't warm though, in my recollection | 07:01 |
| Dhraakellian | so it's probably not that bug | 07:01 |
| Dhraakellian | still, I'll keep sshd enabled | 07:02 |
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| noodles900 | Dhraakellian: my n900 has all kinds of stuff running in screen - like irssi, sshfs, ssh, etc and now it is not an issue | 07:03 |
| Dhraakellian | maybe I'm just being unnecessarily paranoid | 07:03 |
| Dhraakellian | probably, actually | 07:03 |
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| Dhraakellian | I first encountered the device crash/whatever pretty soon after I installed Rockbox from -devel | 07:05 |
| Dhraakellian | but it happens even when I haven't run Rockbox on that bootup, so unrelated, methinks | 07:07 |
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| Dhraakellian | ah, frack | 07:16 |
| Dhraakellian | (unrelated to above) | 07:16 |
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| pupnik | trivia: the gadget (iPhone) of Adam Smith's day was the tweezer. | 07:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | could we PLEASE get rid of this absolutely insane and nuts date format in tmo!? 09-08-10 12:13 AM | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd say that's as unusable and confusing and BS as it gets. can't you use a proper YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM(base24) - PRETTY PLEASE! | 08:28 |
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| * RobbieThe1st agrees with DocScrutinizer | 08:31 | |
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| johnx | heh. the USian date format strikes again | 08:32 |
| johnx | leaving confusion in its wake | 08:32 |
| RobbieThe1st | Personally, I like YYYYMMDD-HHMMSS for filenames, though(Or Unix Timestamps). But for display, the above's nicer | 08:32 |
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| pupnik | in german they say "three-hundred three and twenty" instead of "three-hundred and twenty-three" | 08:33 |
| johnx | I prefer having dashes | 08:33 |
| pupnik | when i take numbers in dictation that still messes me up | 08:33 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: how about the americans fix their dates and the germans fix their language | 08:34 |
| johnx | otherwise I easily misparse things like 201101 vs 201011 vs 201001 | 08:34 |
| pupnik | yep | 08:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | haha, USian format - please everybody guess what's the meaning of 09-08-10 in tmo! | 08:38 |
| johnx | September, 8th 2010 | 08:38 |
| johnx | Do I win? | 08:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you even get the special brainfart award when you tell me what's that: labcdefghijkLABCDEFGHIJK | 08:48 |
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| johnx | alphabufferoverflow? | 08:49 |
| RST38h | That is a name of a long variable? | 08:50 |
| RST38h | heya johnx | 08:50 |
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| johnx | hey RST38h. tonight's topic: favorite date formats | 08:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, a perfect enum representation of american hours of a day | 08:50 |
| RST38h | oh | 08:51 |
| RST38h | johnx: YYmmdd, isn't it? | 08:51 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, you know we use that date/time format just to troll people, right? | 08:51 |
| johnx | RST38h, on t.m.o? nah. pretty sure they use US date format, so mm-dd-yy | 08:51 |
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| johnx | though, it should be mm/dd/yy. that at least gives people a chance | 08:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they fsckng should use a internationally standardized format, or at *very lest* YYYY instead of YY | 08:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | least* | 08:59 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Yes | 09:01 |
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| johnx | Nah. If we used YYYY all the COBOL programmers would be out of jobs | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wouldn't even mind them using unix timestamps - this at least would keep me from figuring what the FUCK is the meaning of this 09-10-08, each time again and again | 09:02 |
| RobbieThe1st | Who maintains the site, anyway? | 09:03 |
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| johnx | Well, Reggie is member 2 (after 'admin') and he still seems to be quite active | 09:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: I don't see my COBOL jobs vanish when using 01 year pic 9(4). Instead of 01 year pic 9(2). | 09:06 |
| johnx | Just you wait *shakes fist* | 09:07 |
| johnx | but really, totally braindead measurement systems are like a tradition here | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | tmo isn't the site of the US Tea Party | 09:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | or Ku Klux Klan | 09:10 |
| RST38h | Doc: Which is about the only two good things about it | 09:11 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, I agree. Did you have a point? | 09:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes: I suggest a complete rework of tmo, to use Finnish Language only, also for dates, fully alphanum. Smash US world dominion, we're fed up with you stuffing down your madness down the world's throat - USA isn't the foundation of all things | 09:14 |
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| alterego | Hah | 09:15 |
| johnx | This is what I meant about us using those date formats to troll people ... | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, and it works | 09:15 |
| johnx | It looks like you can change the data/time format in your user options | 09:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MPH, MPG, 12AM, MMDDYY, acres, inches | 09:18 |
| johnx | inches -> feet -> miles is one of my favorite | 09:18 |
| Corsac | don't forget the yards | 09:18 |
| RST38h | Doc: You forgot 110V and oF | 09:18 |
| Corsac | and ntsc | 09:18 |
| Corsac | and letter | 09:18 |
| RST38h | Doc: These two piss me off the most | 09:18 |
| johnx | and then the fact that anything smaller than an inch is in a fraction rather than a decimal | 09:18 |
| RobbieThe1st | Meh. I like 110V vs 220V - It hurts less when you shock yourself | 09:19 |
| RST38h | johnx: Soviets solved this easily once | 09:19 |
| RobbieThe1st | 220V hurts. a lot. 110V a bit less. | 09:19 |
| Corsac | don't put your tongue in the plug | 09:19 |
| Corsac | s/plug/socket/ | 09:19 |
| infobot | Corsac meant: don't put your tongue in the socket | 09:19 |
| RST38h | johnx: By switching from 0.1" DIP pin spacing to 2.5mm | 09:19 |
| johnx | heh | 09:19 |
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| RST38h | johnx: That, of course, meant that a western-made Z80 was about one pin longer than the PCB allowed =) | 09:20 |
| johnx | aaaawesome | 09:20 |
| RST38h | johnx: [you can't imagine the hilarity] | 09:20 |
| johnx | that must have been the best prank to pull on the new guy for soooo many years | 09:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: A newbie is counting pins. There are 40. The newbie is counting holes. There are 40. He tries plugging the chip in...it is one pin longer. | 09:21 |
| johnx | "Here, just pop this Z80 in and tell me when you're done" | 09:21 |
| RST38h | [shake, repeat] | 09:22 |
| SpeedEvil | You can do that - sorta. | 09:22 |
| SpeedEvil | If you bend the pins | 09:22 |
| SpeedEvil | putting it in is hard | 09:22 |
| Corsac | just use a hammer | 09:22 |
| SpeedEvil | It works 'OK' for soldering | 09:22 |
| johnx | The thing that pisses me off the most is working on cars | 09:23 |
| johnx | Usually when I'm working on one I'm not having the best day to begin with, then realizing that even though I have twice as many wrenches as I should (metric + 'customary') I still don't have the *right* one | 09:25 |
| RobbieThe1st | johnx: That's deliberate. | 09:25 |
| johnx | RobbieThe1st, a conspiracy between the hardware store and the car companies? | 09:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | People working on cars means less money for the shops. Hence, requiring odd and or special tools to do it. | 09:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aaaaah, don't forget witworth threads in screws, vs metric | 09:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | I mean... Is there any real reason to use a 12-point 1/2" bolt when a standard 6-point will do? | 09:27 |
| johnx | RobbieThe1st, should be less likely to round the head, since there is more contact area | 09:27 |
| RobbieThe1st | Really? The ones I've seen have this odd star-appearance, where the flat surface is actually far smaller than it should be. Oh, and it's -probably- supposed to be a special tool, but a 12-pointer works. | 09:28 |
| RobbieThe1st | (Ford differential-driveline coupling bolts) | 09:28 |
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| * jhford debates turning off irc nick monitoring | 09:29 | |
| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 09:29 |
| * jhford on shortened versions of his nick | 09:29 | |
| johnx | when you have a 6-point socket over a 6-point bolt, they're not a perfect fit, so the contact area is actually a smallish area right near the point of the bolt | 09:30 |
| johnx | (there are pics somewhere on the internet) | 09:30 |
| RobbieThe1st | It's far worse when you have a chinese tool, let me tell you :\ | 09:30 |
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| RobbieThe1st | But still... If everything on the car was 12-point bolts of size X, Y, Z abd W... that'd be one thing. But when the -only- place they are used is the driveline? That's just sad. | 09:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: so the save the "Made in..." tag at least here ;-D | 09:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | they* | 09:33 |
| johnx | heh. I remember all the Toyota special service tools | 09:33 |
| johnx | they'd have numbers like SST#112, which would be an awl with a slight bend | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds like Ariadne, where 1st stage was built in "metric areas", and 2nd stage in UK. So they got a overflow when convertig meters to feet, of altitude :-P ---> BOOOOOM | 09:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/ariadne/Ariane/ http://www.wired.com/software/coolapps/news/2005/11/69355?currentPage=2 | 09:44 |
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| johnx | makes more sense now :) | 09:44 |
| johnx | That Greek goddess didn't seem particularly more buggy than the others ... | 09:45 |
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| pupnik | i thought the UK had entered into the 20th century by now | 09:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Err - no. | 09:48 |
| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: no, that was a mars probe | 09:48 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: the navigation unit outputted diagnostics after it overflowed the designed range. | 09:48 |
| Corsac | viking or something | 09:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: The designed range was fine in the earlier rocket, and this was correct behaviour. The problem was that the new rocket had a greater delta-v and would normally exceed the range of the INS. | 09:49 |
| Corsac | ha no, mars climate orbiter | 09:49 |
| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter | 09:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5#Notable_launches | 09:49 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: leading to overflow in the normal use-case, and the rest of the rocet trying to parse the diagnostic data as real nav data | 09:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, maybe I mixed sth | 09:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | probably some popular scientific mag in TV gave me incorrect info about it | 09:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5_Flight_501 | 09:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but I seem to recall the unit tests were done in meters where this error didn't show up, while in real launch that particular system worked based on feet units, which then caused the overflow | 09:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Nope - I think you're mixing up MCO or somthing else. | 09:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>...while 3 others, including the horizontal bias variable, were left unprotected because it was thought that they were "physically limited or that there was a large margin of error"<< | 09:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, if the reviews assumed 32k maxint is meters, then for sure they will come to a different notion about how safe this unprotected variable is, than when it actually is using feet | 10:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | There was no unit confusion - it was working well on Ariane 4. Everything on Ariane is in meters, anyway. | 10:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway never mind, maybe I'm completely wrong on this particular one. But that doesn't change the *EVIL* the US unit system is doing to world's sanity | 10:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | AND ESPECIALLY THE MM-DD-YY ERR YY-DD-MM FORMAT OF TMO | 10:10 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, you did find the place to change it in your profile, right? (on tmo I mean) | 10:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, just started looking for it | 10:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, still no YYYY-MM-DD, but extended "european" is good enough. Thanks | 10:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/extended/expanded/. | 10:15 |
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| * DocScrutinizer thinks DD-MM-YY is NOT any standard european format either | 10:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer | DD. MM. YYYY is | 10:17 |
| Gyjf | we usually use dd-mm-yy | 10:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe even DD. MM. YY | 10:17 |
| Gyjf | both 2 and 4 digits for year is fine | 10:18 |
| Gyjf | it differs | 10:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datumsformat | 10:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | YY-MM-DD as in ISO 8601:1988 & 2000 is *obsolete* and not valid anymore | 10:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | DD-MM-YY is bogus | 10:22 |
| Gyjf | its still used quite often here | 10:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | :shrug: | 10:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can *use* whatever you like - ask luke-jr about tonal system, maybe you love it | 10:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | DD-MM-YY is not valid, never has been, and isn't commonly used in Europe | 10:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | DD. MM. YY or DD. MM. YYYY is very common, and perfectly unambiguous and OK | 10:25 |
| chem|st | but in case of sorting stuff more of any use is YYYY MM DD if you are lost without date specific sorting algorythm | 10:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the rationale behind ISO 8601:2004 | 10:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka DIN5008 | 10:28 |
| chem|st | took me weeks to get the lab-slaves entitle files in that order | 10:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw (listen USA!): ISO means INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS Organization iirc | 10:31 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, eh, isn't that the the one that approved ooxml? | 10:31 |
| ieatlint | and here i thought it wasn't an acronym, but rather the greek word for "same" | 10:31 |
| * chem|st hopes his device is shipped today :( | 10:32 | |
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| chem|st | ieatlint: thought that is UNI | 10:32 |
| ieatlint | oh, my mistake, it's the greek word for equal | 10:33 |
| ieatlint | "the organization adopted ISO based on the Greek word isos (ἴσος), meaning equal " | 10:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | so while it might be OK for a US located BB to use crippled US MM-DD-YY, it is an _offense_ to offer MM_DD_YY as any ""european" format - it's mere BS, take it | 10:34 |
| ieatlint | http://www.iso.org/iso/about/discover-iso_isos-name.htm | 10:34 |
| chem|st | 2nd that! | 10:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/DD_MM_YY/DD-MM-YY/ | 10:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/MM_DD_YY/DD-MM-YY/ | 10:35 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: so while it might be OK for a US located BB to use crippled US MM-DD-YY, it is an _offense_ to offer DD-MM-YY as any ""european" format - it's mere BS, take it | 10:35 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, well, then it's a good thing they offer both formats | 10:35 |
| johnx | and a choice of 12/24 hour time | 10:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no johnx - they offer MM-DD-YY (US BS) and DD-MM-YY (bogus shit tagged as "european" which it isn't) | 10:36 |
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| johnx | wait, what? | 10:37 |
| johnx | are you mad about the dashes? | 10:37 |
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| ieatlint | you're angry that the DD-MM-YY format is called european? | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | DD-MM-YY is *NOT*, I repeat NOT, any valid or commonly used european date format | 10:37 |
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| ieatlint | i can honestly say that's news to me... i've always known european dates to be formatted day/month/year | 10:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus doesn't help in any way whatsoever to avoid ambiguity | 10:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: no, / isn't ANY standard in Europe | 10:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | . (dot) is | 10:39 |
| SwedeMike | http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html | 10:40 |
| SwedeMike | The international standard date notation is | 10:40 |
| SwedeMike | YYYY-MM-DD | 10:40 |
| SwedeMike | that's what we use in Sweden anyway. | 10:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | as we all learnt from wiki and ISO 8601:2004 | 10:40 |
| ieatlint | heh | 10:41 |
| SwedeMike | also, I've never seen . used here either. | 10:41 |
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| ieatlint | if someone wrote 31.1.11, i'd not immediately think that's a date | 10:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | 24. 12. 2008 is a perfect date format | 10:41 |
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| Gyjf | .pp = piratpartiet isp? | 10:42 |
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| ieatlint | .pp isn't a tld | 10:42 |
| Gyjf | i know | 10:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's built from a dot and a whitespace after day and month, and usually used with a 4 digit year | 10:43 |
| SwedeMike | .pp.se, pp = "Private Person" (translated) | 10:43 |
| Gyjf | ah k | 10:43 |
| SwedeMike | I registered it in 1996 before it was allowed for non-commercial entities to register directly under .se | 10:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | replacing dot and whitespace by a - isn't making it any more legible | 10:43 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: it's german notation to do N. to make it ordinal... is that actually true for other languages? | 10:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not sure about that. ISO8601 doesn't support that format | 10:45 |
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| toresbe | IMO 2010-01-21 is best, IMO | 10:45 |
| SwedeMike | +1 | 10:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | but ISO8601 doesn't support DD-MM-YY either | 10:45 |
| toresbe | remove one IMO of choice :) | 10:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | toresbe: yes, and that's not offered by tmo | 10:45 |
| toresbe | I always use YYYY-MM-DD because of how it sorts | 10:46 |
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| trx2 | yyyy-mm-dd is good for sorting :) we use dd-mm-yyyy here.. | 10:46 |
| toresbe | I even find myself signing contracts with that format :) | 10:46 |
| SwedeMike | I sometimes use 2011-JAN-31 just to avoid confusion globally, especially when americans are involved. | 10:46 |
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| RobbieThe1st | YYYYMMDD's what I end up using, and is especially prevelent in filenames. | 10:46 |
| toresbe | SwedeMike: isn't that the VMS format? :) | 10:46 |
| SwedeMike | toresbe: dunno. | 10:47 |
| toresbe | or is that JAN-31-2011... | 10:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | trx2: as said above, you can *use* whatever you like, just don't expect others to parse it correctly | 10:47 |
| trx2 | yeap.. | 10:47 |
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| toresbe | I'd power up my VMS box and test... | 10:47 |
| toresbe | but can't be arsed | 10:47 |
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| ieatlint | and here my crazy self follows one of the most widely used notations in the computer industry | 10:48 |
| ieatlint | mm/dd/yy :P | 10:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iso8601 | 10:48 |
| SwedeMike | ieatlint: yuck. | 10:48 |
| trx2 | i dont know why would anyone create such format "mm-dd-yyyy" | 10:48 |
| trx2 | its just... wrong :/ | 10:49 |
| SwedeMike | absolutely. | 10:49 |
| SwedeMike | horrible. | 10:49 |
| ieatlint | this discussion makes about as much sense as the ones that insist people should change their language to get rid of irregular verbs | 10:49 |
| ieatlint | sounds great, good luck convincing anyone | 10:49 |
| trx2 | :)) | 10:49 |
| toresbe | yeah | 10:49 |
| johnx | ieatlint, you should change your language to get rid of irregular verbs | 10:50 |
| SwedeMike | ieatlint: we could discuss the finer points of the metric system as well? | 10:50 |
| ieatlint | we'll see the metric system here in the US before we see dd/mm/yy :P | 10:50 |
| SwedeMike | I'm actually annoyed that mythbusters mix metric and ancient so often, they should go 100% metric. | 10:51 |
| ieatlint | johnx: no, we prefer them, it helps us make fun of people trying to learn english, and the less-educated "native" speakers | 10:51 |
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| ieatlint | SwedeMike: that's standard here | 10:51 |
| ieatlint | science measurements are typically metric, but relative measurements for day to day stuff are imperial | 10:52 |
| johnx | it's a big grab bag | 10:52 |
| ieatlint | if they start talking about cars going 90kmh, people here would get confused :P | 10:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: BS. tmo is trying to convince me to either learn english language, or some gibberish they claim is European though it's NOT | 10:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ...for date formats | 10:53 |
| ieatlint | yeah, i'd agree that's unfortunate | 10:54 |
| johnx | I always treated date separators the same way I treat sed s statements: be consistent any sane parser will just figure it out | 10:54 |
| ieatlint | indeed | 10:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: and I don't mind you making mythbusters using aegyptian steps for length, and the pharao calendar for dates. But in tmo I *hate* seeing DD-MM-YY tagged as "european" and being the only 'alternative' to fsckdup US format | 10:56 |
| ieatlint | well, have you bitched at someone who can fix it? | 10:56 |
| nidO | complain there > http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/148-vBulletin-4-Suggestions | 10:56 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:11 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Me neither. I had to Google "PIP-BOY"! | 11:12 |
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| RST38h | "Dr. Bright is no longer allowed to play "Hippocratic Oath Chicken" with the medical staff." | 12:04 |
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| MohammadAG | Venemo, ping | 12:31 |
| MohammadAG | err, pong | 12:31 |
| Venemo | hey MohammadAG :) | 12:31 |
| Venemo | I wanted to ask you something about scratchbox, but I already solved it | 12:31 |
| MohammadAG | :) | 12:33 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: yesterday I learned how to cherry pick with git. which is good news, because I can get to work :P | 12:34 |
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| MohammadAG | Venemo, cool :D | 12:39 |
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| mece1 | cssu looks very professional :) | 12:49 |
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| MohammadAG | I'd like to thank Jaffa for that, he does everything professionally :) | 12:50 |
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| mece1 | :) | 12:58 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: :-) | 13:00 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Thanks to you for taking the initiative | 13:00 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG, Jaffa: Congrats on getting it out of the door. | 13:00 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: Thanks for your help with the repo | 13:01 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, X-Fade Thanks for all the help :) | 13:01 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Meh, that part is easy. | 13:01 |
| rmrfchik | hi there. I just posted on t.m.o, want to give away sources for vexed (the game i had writen) | 13:02 |
| rmrfchik | as I not any more interested in maemo development. | 13:02 |
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| johnx | rmrfchik, that's very cool of you | 13:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | rmrfchik: :/ But cool. | 13:05 |
| * SpeedEvil wishes nokia had handled maemo a bit better. | 13:05 | |
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| johnx | really. we could be sitting here talking about how android and ios are kinda neat, but they'll just never catch up to nokia's incredible head start | 13:07 |
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| rmrfchik | johnx: yes, cool. but sources needs new master ;) will you? | 13:11 |
| johnx | rmrfchik, I'm not much of a game programmer. :| I just wanted to say that I appreciate what you're doing. | 13:12 |
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| Jaffa | rmrfchik: URL for the TMO thread? I'll include it in today's MWKN if ietherpad.com ever responds... | 13:14 |
| rmrfchik | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=69167 | 13:15 |
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| wjt | is promotion from extras-testing to extras per-version or per-application? | 13:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | err, CSSU gone 'public'? pointer? | 13:20 |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer51: #maemo-ssu :) | 13:20 |
| RST38h | XFade <-- too fast | 13:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm | 13:21 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer51: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, http://maemo.org/news/ etc. etc. | 13:22 |
| rmrfchik | hmm.. just wonder, can I use my old n810 as kind of wifi-repeater? | 13:25 |
| johnx | rmrfchik, probably not, since it doesn't support "Host" aka "Access Point" mode | 13:26 |
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| rmrfchik | johnx: is this HW limitations? | 13:28 |
| johnx | I don't know enough to say whether it's a hardware limitation or a driver limitation | 13:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | hardware is a fuzzy term | 13:30 |
| SpeedEvil | It's likely to be the firmware not supporting it, not the hardware | 13:30 |
| johnx | ah, yes. that sounds familiar | 13:30 |
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| demutez | what is the '^' sign called in configs for xmodmap, setxkbmap etc? | 13:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | Caret? | 13:36 |
| demutez | thx | 13:36 |
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| demutez | SpeedEvil: fyi: circumflex | 13:44 |
| SpeedEvil | No, I'm uncut. | 13:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | /usr/share/X11/XKeysymDB or X11/lib/XKeysymDB | 14:13 |
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| ccooke | names | 14:35 |
| ccooke | Bah. | 14:35 |
| ccooke | (afternoon, all) | 14:35 |
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| TiagoTiago | hi | 15:08 |
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| TiagoTiago | my Conversations convos all have a scrollbar instead of scrolling the hildonized way, any idea how i can fix that? | 15:09 |
| andre__ | TiagoTiago: no, but you can CC on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11559 . Please no "me too" comments, but if you remember what you've done recently a comment is welcome | 15:11 |
| povbot | Bug 11559: Conversations App - Scrollbar Appeared, Touch Scrolling Does Not Work | 15:11 |
| TiagoTiago | it's a gray scrolbar in case that makes any differehncde | 15:11 |
| TiagoTiago | ah, it's a known bug, ok, thanx | 15:12 |
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| TiagoTiago | hm, i have an account elsewhere on maemo.org do i need to create another one on bugzilla? | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 15:22 |
| TiagoTiago | ok | 15:22 |
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| TiagoTiago | who can change a bug status to confirmed and under what circunstances? | 15:27 |
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| TiagoTiago | is there a way to make it so a certain program will always when loaded be set to a certain priority? | 15:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: invoke via `nice -n <new_prio> <your_prog>` | 15:54 |
| TiagoTiago | does that make it permanent or only for this run? | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: to increase prio (negative niceness) you also might need to run nice as root | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: obviously for the time it's invoked like that | 15:55 |
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| TiagoTiago | ok, so i need to change the .desktop file to make it permanent? | 15:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for increasing prio, you'd need sth like `sudo nice -n -10 su -l user <your_prog>` | 15:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes | 15:56 |
| pupnik | http://openssl.org/news/secadv_20101202.txt oops | 15:56 |
| pupnik | missed that | 15:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: NB priority doesn't directly affect speed of execution. It just sorts the processes into groups that may interrupt/suspend other lower prio processes | 16:04 |
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| TiagoTiago | i know | 16:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | i.e. as long as there's no process with lower niceness aka higher prio actually *running*, it will help nothing to change your process' niceness | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/lower/lower or equal/ | 16:05 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: i.e. as long as there's no process with lower or equal niceness aka higher prio actually *running*, it will help nothing to change your process' niceness | 16:05 |
| TiagoTiago | the way this game keeps having lag spikes feels more like it's other programs in the background deciding to scratch an itch | 16:06 |
| * alterego wonders what sorting algo they use. | 16:06 | |
| alterego | Probably a basic list :) | 16:06 |
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| alterego | TiagoTiago: what game? | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: more likely it's waiting for swap | 16:06 |
| TiagoTiago | Driver | 16:07 |
| alterego | No idea what that is | 16:07 |
| TiagoTiago | from the Palm Pre | 16:07 |
| alterego | Oh so it's a quite intensive 3D GLES game | 16:07 |
| alterego | That's to be expected to be honest, especially if it has a lot of textures | 16:08 |
| alterego | And/Or other game data. | 16:08 |
| TiagoTiago | i also noticed similar sporadic lag spikes in other games, overclocking seemed to help making things smoother, but i would rather avoid OC'ing when possible | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, swap and/or file IO | 16:08 |
| * alterego wonders what the spec is of the palm pre | 16:09 | |
| alterego | Is it better than the N900 memory wise? | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: clean out ram, so the game has more of it to hog with | 16:09 |
| TiagoTiago | is there a way to force everything that is running to go to tthe swap and only bring back to RAM what is used from this point on? | 16:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol, I think that's what maemo does, with swappiness=100 | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | so probably no need to "do" it, it's already done | 16:11 |
| jo-erlend | how do I use my N900 as a video source on my PC? | 16:12 |
| TiagoTiago | no, i mean, i hit a button and everything currently on rRAM goes to swap and RAM gets empty, and then only things that are acessed on the swap are broughtg back to RAM on a first come basis | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are things like rtcom-cal-ui that are pinned to RAM though, and mustn't swap out | 16:12 |
| TiagoTiago | there is a thread on TMO about using the N900 as a "webcam" for PCs | 16:13 |
| jo-erlend | TMO? | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: see above, that's what swappiness=100 does all the time, w/o you hitting a button | 16:13 |
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| TiagoTiago | what would happen if those get swapped out? | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~tmo | 16:13 |
| infobot | tmo is probably http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo | 16:13 |
| ShadowJK | Theoretically if you made an app that hogged shitloads of memory it'd push everything else to swap | 16:13 |
| ShadowJK | it's not such a good idea in practice | 16:14 |
| TiagoTiago | Oh, i see, whatever is used the most recent stays on the fast RAM by default | 16:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no, maemo swaps out everything, to have more free ram | 16:15 |
| ShadowJK | It's better to start with 0 used swap, since it's still pretty fast before it gets fragmented | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | when swappiness=100 | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik | 16:15 |
| TiagoTiago | so the game is filling up all the RAM and then some? | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | then maemo uses the same freed RAM as buffer for file-IO | 16:16 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Got a question | 16:16 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Has anyone considered introducing all h-d hacks into cssu h-d, but making them configurable via the same config file as everything else? | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: set swappiness down to a lower value, and see if that helps | 16:17 |
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| TiagoTiago | is there a program like StorageSpace but for RAM and swap? | 16:17 |
| RST38h | By "all hacks" I mean: 1)fast app menu scroll 2) bg desaturation 3) task switcher that only shows 2 or 1 app | 16:18 |
| ShadowJK | Even at swappiness 100 it doesn't actually swap anything out unless there's something that wants ram... The higher swappiness, the more equal the kernel treats different kinda of used memory. With swappiness 1 it goes to great lengths to not eject anonymous memory pages from ram, which might make it slower as it might be reading and dropping other stuff from disk instead :P | 16:18 |
| Necc | TiagoTiago: swappouble | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: stop processes that you are sure you don't need to start up rapidly during playing, like browserd, rtcom-call-ui, whatnot | 16:18 |
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| ShadowJK | btw, for me half an hour of mobile firefox is enough to exhaust unfragmented swap, which causes a noticeable slowdown :) | 16:19 |
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| TiagoTiago | Hm, a prog to do temporary optimizations for gaming would be nice | 16:19 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK:Not surprising =( | 16:20 |
| ShadowJK | On Maemo4 I used to do swapoff/swapon before launching a game | 16:20 |
| RST38h | Andit won't stop unless they break away from XUL, i.e. never =) | 16:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: 3)????? | 16:21 |
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| TiagoTiago | messing with transitions should be left to themes and transition tweaking programs, i would rather not have my custom transitions overridden needlessly during an update | 16:21 |
| ShadowJK | on Maemo5 turning off swap triggers low-ram messages to be sent to the OS, causing all sorts of apps to shutdown, so it's not a good idea. As I have swap on microsd, I do, swapoff microsd, swapon -p 10 microsd, swapoff emmc ; swapon -p 5 emmc | 16:21 |
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| RST38h | Doc: There was a modification to h-d that showed the task switcher in vaguely "Meego"style, scrollable list, only one appshown at a time | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, thp made that | 16:22 |
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| ShadowJK | whenever I go over the fragmentation threshold | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: YUCK | 16:22 |
| RST38h | Doc: the problem is, thp's code is compiled in,not configurable | 16:22 |
| TiagoTiago | My background goes 180 hue with weird CA-like pseudo blurring | 16:22 |
| RST38h | Doc: Some people like it. | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | for fuck's sake | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | why the fuck does my sim keeps disconnecting | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, I just wonder what the hospitals actually do with all the live donated brain they get day after day | 16:23 |
| TiagoTiago | the little metal prongs are bent flat away from the chip, or the pads on the chip got too big dents? | 16:24 |
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| TiagoTiago | also, are you sure you locked the holder in place? | 16:24 |
| ShadowJK | MohammadAG, does it reliably happen when you press yhujikol on keyboard by a firm thumb on button and finger on back cover type of grip? :-) | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | meego == fsckng Mickey Mouse OS | 16:25 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 16:25 |
| RST38h | "yhujikol" must be a swear word. | 16:25 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, nope | 16:25 |
| RST38h | In Finnish, I guess | 16:25 |
| MohammadAG | it just drops the whole signal bar, drops 3G connection, then reconnects | 16:25 |
| TiagoTiago | is it in dualmode? | 16:26 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: Ok, force it to 2G. See if it becomes stable. | 16:26 |
| ShadowJK | so you don't get crossed out sim icon then? | 16:26 |
| MohammadAG | sometimes the sim is deregistered, and I have to remove/insert the ssi_mcsawhatever module | 16:26 |
| MohammadAG | actually 2G* | 16:26 |
| MohammadAG | it's forced to 2G | 16:26 |
| RST38h | Ok, so it is doing this in 2G...weird | 16:26 |
| ShadowJK | check dmesg | 16:26 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, sometimes yes, but a modprobe -r + modprobe fixes it | 16:26 |
| MohammadAG | dmesg is clean | 16:26 |
| TiagoTiago | I don't have to ask you if you installed the leaked pr1.2, right? | 16:26 |
| ShadowJK | I was having a bunch of "cmt rst" messages in dmesg | 16:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which for sure means there's sth fishy | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | while 3G dropping frequently is sth I get all the time, in pub nextby - a known white area for RF | 16:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | switch to 2G only mode, if you can't bear with 3G dropouts | 16:30 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, It just dropped on 2G | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, maybe exceptionally poor RF then, at your location? | 16:31 |
| MohammadAG | full reception | 16:32 |
| TiagoTiago | do GSM signals suffer from standing wave deadzones? | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | this doesn't really mean a thing | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: GSM yes, UMTS no | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui | 16:32 |
| MohammadAG | an X10 has the same operator, no problems | 16:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Some networks do not do 2g | 16:33 |
| TiagoTiago | ~auiu | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you're special (and no, you're not my father) | 16:33 |
| MohammadAG | this one does, lots of non 3G users on it | 16:33 |
| TiagoTiago | could it be antenna overbooking? | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | as well, yes | 16:34 |
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| TiagoTiago | what does "aiui" means? | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | or some other MohammadAG experimenting with his hacked GSM stack | 16:35 |
| alterego | TiagoTiago: as I understand it | 16:35 |
| TiagoTiago | ok | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~aiui | 16:35 |
| infobot | [aiui] As I Understand It | 16:35 |
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| TiagoTiago | Hm, Mo, watch out for people intercepting your calls and other mobile communications | 16:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: there's a phenomenon in GSM where you got seemingly perfect conditions (signal) but because of too far distance to BTS nothing really works | 16:36 |
| MohammadAG | I'm on 2G + connected to EDGE, and afaik, the N900 rejects all calls | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | and irc is logged, so meh | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | also happens when another "nearby" BTS interferes | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, the signal is fine | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | but all bars are dropped and gprs is disconnected | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 16:37 |
| TiagoTiago | are you stationary in relation to the antennas? | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | which might mean you can't fulfill the requirements the BTS signals to your MT | 16:38 |
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| TiagoTiago | (one excuse about the prohibition of mobiles in planes is it would fuck up the netwok with all the fast handouts | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | like Time Advance being too high, due to you being >20km away from BTS | 16:38 |
| TiagoTiago | ) | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | frequently seen effect on high hills | 16:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | perfect signal but nothing works | 16:39 |
| MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/WgpXGgmq | 16:39 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, again, N8, X10, and some old nokia work fine | 16:39 |
| MohammadAG | only the N900 is dropping | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | :shrug: | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | alas neither of those has Service Monitor | 16:40 |
| RST38h | Tiago: repent, you are 10km in the air! | 16:40 |
| RST38h | what handoffs? =) | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: and atenna footprint forbids you're using the BTS dirctly under you | 16:41 |
| TiagoTiago | perhaps it's a bug on Nokia's closed source GSM modem firmware that only manifests in rarer circunstances | 16:41 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Why not just reflash the thing and see what happens? | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: he means handovers, and that'S BS | 16:41 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Maybe some bits have rotten =) | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | each highway is creating much more handovers | 16:42 |
| RST38h | Doc: I know he means handoffs and I know it is bs :) | 16:42 |
| TiagoTiago | but are they such a long and fast jumps as would happen from an airplane (assuming the mobiles on board are in range) ? | 16:43 |
| RST38h | Tiago: Have you everseen a cell antenna? | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | the real problem is there's a logical limit of distance to BTS, which is like 35km point-to-point | 16:43 |
| RST38h | Tiago: Do you know why they look like those mobile heaters? | 16:43 |
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| TiagoTiago | orange and white with 3 120 degress direction antennas on top | 16:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | beyond that you can't fit the MT TX into the BTS' timeslices | 16:43 |
| TiagoTiago | directional* | 16:44 |
| RST38h | Tiago: rrrrright! | 16:44 |
| RST38h | Tiago: And direction *not* in vertical direction ;) | 16:44 |
| TiagoTiago | could be bouncing off buildings, street poles' wires, traintracks etc i guess | 16:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: (bug in cellmo FW) good point, rather possible | 16:45 |
| TiagoTiago | It would be interesting if you could get a few more N900 over there and watch their connections simultaneouslly | 16:47 |
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| MohammadAG | meh | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd not be surprised however to find it's related to your other mechanical problem you had lately | 16:49 |
| MohammadAG | stuffed a cigarette package paper under it | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik the semi-broken plastic part was actually the GSM antenna | 16:49 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 16:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and I honestly doubt a tin foil coated cig paper will improve the antenna characteristics :-P | 16:50 |
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| MohammadAG | it's not the tin foil part muhahaha | 16:52 |
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| TiagoTiago | but does it have tinfoil in it? | 16:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: (bouncing off) usually nope, won't happen. It's way lower signal than a 60+km distant BTS seen more horizontally from your plane than the still 10km away BTS below you | 16:54 |
| MohammadAG | it's just cardboard | 16:54 |
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| TiagoTiago | what about close to landing and take off? | 16:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what's then? GSM works fine during that, given you got large enough windows in your alu tube called airplane | 16:55 |
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| TiagoTiago | some september 11 passengers phoned out moments before WTC, no? | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 16:55 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, Fallout 1 & 2 were the bane of homework assignments during my childhood. ;) | 16:56 |
| rm_work | yeah they were using their phones on a plane somehow... | 16:56 |
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| TiagoTiago | are the planes so much slower around that time? | 16:56 |
| rm_work | I've never tried, though did turn on my GPS and it freaked out, but kinda worked | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: IT IS **NOT** about speed! | 16:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: there IS NO problem with GSM from airplanes, except regulations and distance to BTS | 16:57 |
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| TiagoTiago | so cell networks can handle mobiles jumping very fast between several antennas? | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | regulations forbid it, distance has to be <35km | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: yes | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | for all metrics of your "very fast" | 16:58 |
| TiagoTiago | Won't the sudden unconected handovers mess up with the algorithms that are optimized for contiguos handovers and with everyone on planes going back and forth the reduction in network performance would pile up? ? | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | *sigh* | 17:01 |
| TiagoTiago | I think that last msg is kinda grammaticly incorrect, lemme know if you want me to try to fix it | 17:01 |
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| jacekowski | is there sip -> jabber/jingle transport? | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: lemme put it this way, cruising with a 747 in 100m above a town will create less handovers than you on a call while driving down the downtown highway with 70MPH | 17:03 |
| TiagoTiago | aren't the GSM network used specificly for train communications tweaked to handle the fast speed better? | 17:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: tell me | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not wikipedia | 17:03 |
| TiagoTiago | I think i read about it there | 17:04 |
| TiagoTiago | "GSM-R, Global System for Mobile Communications - Railway or GSM-Railway is an international wireless communications standard for railway communication and applications. A sub-system of European Rail Traffic Management System (ERTMS), it is used for communication between train and railway regulation control centers. The system is based on GSM and EIRENE - MORANE specifications which guarantee performance at speeds up to 500 km/h (3 | 17:05 |
| TiagoTiago | 10 mph), without any communication loss." | 17:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: weren't the first passengers of Adler railway here in Nuernberg Germany supposed to get sick and suffocate due to the high speed of the train (>30km/h)? | 17:05 |
| rm_work | lolol | 17:06 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 17:06 |
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| TiagoTiago | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM-R | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think I know how GSM works | 17:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I also know you usually want a period of maybe 10s where both stations for handover are available for communication | 17:09 |
| TiagoTiago | that is why i was asking you instead of researching on Wikipedia | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's nothing that would forbid GSM in airplanes though | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | as, unlike in a train entering a tunnel, on an airplane a BTS stays in vicinity quite steadily and for long time | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp when it's a BTS some 10KM below and 50km offset horizontally | 17:11 |
| TiagoTiago | that paragraph i pasted says it's about speed not tunnels | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | when I hit you it's also about speed (of my fist), not about brutality | 17:11 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 17:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: read about Doppler effect, and about trigonometrics when moving on a far away tangential vector | 17:14 |
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| ballanux | hi all! | 17:14 |
| pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuIrRoRPufc hildon-desktop running on ubuntu | 17:15 |
| * ShadowJK wonders how many frequencies per operator is usually available | 17:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: you can fly *by* a 30km away BTS that's 90° left/right of your way, with something like 5 Mach, without any interference to GSM signal | 17:16 |
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| TiagoTiago | so even at those speeds the blue/redshift are not enough to confuse either side of connection? | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: some 100 chan | 17:16 |
| kerio | pupnik: woah, that's really fast | 17:17 |
| kerio | :D | 17:17 |
| ShadowJK | I know people here who installed antennas on their rooftops for better 3g signal have issues with interference from towers further away on same freq | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: obviously, if you're driving on a circly around the BTS, any speed you're going is meaningless to the communication to BTS (modulo sectors) | 17:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | circle* | 17:18 |
| TiagoTiago | ah, right | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | for a short period of time, each vector is a circle segment to some BTS far away from you | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why you can easily use GSM in a airplane at 500MPH, while in a car in town you get problems with GSM @ speeds of >60MPH | 17:21 |
| alterego | I wonder how clever the BTS switching is | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: completely braindead | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, 90% braindead | 17:21 |
| alterego | Travelling in plane, working out optimal vector and most likely next base station | 17:21 |
| Trewas | surely red/blue-shift in a vehicle operating in atmosphere is utterly insignificant when considering GSM signals? | 17:22 |
| alterego | Meh, GSM seems extremely sensitive to me. | 17:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you have a list of neighbour BTS in your MT, and a C1/" set of criteria which mainly implement a hysteresis to switch between sercicing cell and neighbours | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Trewas: yes, mostly | 17:23 |
| alterego | Hrm, yeah, so it's mainly up to the handset | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least for GSM | 17:23 |
| pupnik | kerio: i think it deserves some praise - at least he's doing something | 17:23 |
| alterego | Would be interesting if they could augment and improve using gps. | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | not so for UMTS | 17:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Trewas: anyway you got BTS controlled AFC in MT | 17:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | compensating arbitrary freq shifts | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | the problem is - once more - the timeslots and Timing Advance compensating for the RTT BTS->MT->BTS | 17:26 |
| ShadowJK | does the timing advance thing set any limits on speed? | 17:26 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | this is a macroscopic "blueshift" that's taking effect during sth like several 100ms | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | still, on an airplane, you're likely to conect to BTS 90° off anyway, and there's no Doppler | 17:28 |
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| * ShadowJK wonders how much signal is lost from having phone inside an aluminium tube | 17:29 | |
| DocScrutinizer | each urban area usually has 2 or 3 so called umbrela-cells which cover the whole area, and one of those is always 90° to your vector | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: Loooots | 17:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even more when trying to connect to ahead or behind BTS | 17:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's why [2011-01-31 16:28:15] <DocScrutinizer> still, on an airplane, you're likely to conect to BTS 90° off anyway, and there's no Doppler | 17:31 |
| TiagoTiago | i once tried putting my N73 inside a metal can of powder chocolate milk (sans contents) without a lid, and the signal didn't change regardless of where i pointed the oppening | 17:32 |
| ShadowJK | you get reflections from the sides | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: effects on RF are dramatically different when dealing with structure sizes ~ wavelength | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | and structure sizes < wavelength start to not matter at all | 17:33 |
| TiagoTiago | i'll try to remember to check the signal bar before switching to offline mode next time i board a plane | 17:33 |
| * TiagoTiago goes to WolphramAlpha to find out how big GSM wavelenghts are | 17:34 | |
| ShadowJK | probably no difference when you're sitting 500m from the base station at the airport :) | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | what do you expect to see, with next BTS on roof of terminal, 50m away? | 17:34 |
| TiagoTiago | oh, balls | 17:35 |
| ShadowJK | the signal meters have a funny scale too, first bar goes away when 80% of signal has gone away or so :P | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | just like BME battery meter X-P | 17:36 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 17:36 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, is there a replacement signal widget that shows both the signal strenght and the signal/noise ratio? | 17:36 |
| ShadowJK | it shows 3/4 bars at 50% :) (bme) | 17:36 |
| TiagoTiago | gah, wolframalpha is with an F | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: now please transfer the $100 for this 60min crashcourse to my account ;-D | 17:37 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 17:37 |
| TiagoTiago | i wish i had the means | 17:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: check netmon | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | poor man's service monitor | 17:41 |
| TiagoTiago | the wavelenght for 900MHz is about 33.3 centimeters... | 17:41 |
| GAN900 | AMD has 5W Fusion APU!!!! | 17:41 |
| GAN900 | Is 5W supposed to be small? | 17:42 |
| TiagoTiago | according to WA | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: sunds about right | 17:42 |
| RST38h | Depends on what 5W means | 17:42 |
| RST38h | If it is Watts, then AMD is fucked, as far as mobile tech is concerned | 17:43 |
| TiagoTiago | so a can or an airplane fuselage are probably both somewhat in the range | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends what's an APU. A laser? O.O | 17:43 |
| RST38h | Auxillary Poer Unit? =) | 17:43 |
| TiagoTiago | please come again | 17:43 |
| RST38h | Power | 17:43 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, it's an SoC. | 17:43 |
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| GAN900 | More or less. | 17:43 |
| TiagoTiago | a 5 Watts fusion generator on a mobile? 0.0 | 17:43 |
| GAN900 | AMD's name for their combined CPU/GPU unit. | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: aaah that device that saved Apollo 13? | 17:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or the little turbine at rear of airplanes | 17:44 |
| RST38h | Doc: Dunno about APollo, butit is the device they start up first in an airplane,to provide power and start the main jets | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | jets | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 17:44 |
| TiagoTiago | JATO? | 17:45 |
| RST38h | GAN900: Behold the great battle of Intel and AMD netbooks! | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | OTAN? | 17:45 |
| RST38h | (if you care, that is) | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | wow, a SoC with an on chip 5W APU - that sounds really nice :-P | 17:46 |
| GAN900 | (the exhaust port on the tail that looks like another engine is from the APU) | 17:46 |
| RST38h | Doc: The last time this has been tried, they abandoned idea because of the noise | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | (little turbine at rear of airplanes) | 17:47 |
| TiagoTiago | Somthing kinda like the N900 with a just little bit more juice and slightly less pocketable could easilly pass as a netbook | 17:47 |
| RST38h | Doc: Apparently, the sound of an on-chip nanoturbine is very high and highly unpleasant | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 17:47 |
| TiagoTiago | lol, the mosquito tone | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ...and makes your windows' glass crackle and fall to dust | 17:48 |
| RST38h | http://thefutureofthings.com/articles/49/engine-on-a-chip.html | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 17:48 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 17:49 |
| RST38h | You do know that I rarely joke? =) | 17:49 |
| TiagoTiago | Would be fun to have a device that when you powerup sounds like an old camera flash charging though | 17:49 |
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| kerio | TiagoTiago: and that it's actually a MTHEL? | 17:50 |
| TiagoTiago | ~MTHEL | 17:51 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, what is that? | 17:51 |
| kerio | mobile tactical high energy laser | 17:51 |
| kerio | although i was thinking more of a handgun-sized version | 17:51 |
| kerio | so µTHEL | 17:51 |
| TiagoTiago | oh, that's boner worthy | 17:52 |
| kerio | yeah, laser guns will only have a meaning in hand-to-hand combat | 17:53 |
| RST38h | MTHEL is kinda beaten topic here | 17:53 |
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| kerio | you need *way* too much energy to fire a laser from a spaceship to another and have it actually hit | 17:53 |
| RST38h | Tiago: YOu want this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto | 17:53 |
| kerio | plus you don't deal enough damage | 17:53 |
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| kerio | kinetic weapons is where it's at | 17:53 |
| TiagoTiago | Hm, i wonder how long untill we got bullets that got their own turbines | 17:54 |
| RST38h | (these guys get extra bonus points for choosing an appropriately named location, too) | 17:54 |
| kerio | TiagoTiago: you mean in a local fight? | 17:54 |
| kerio | i say lasers are going to be more affordable for that | 17:54 |
| TiagoTiago | fired from handheld guns | 17:55 |
| kerio | pff | 17:55 |
| kerio | need for acceleration, recoil (although less than normal handguns) | 17:55 |
| RST38h | Why fired? Breeding in AP complexes and firing automatically at any living target. | 17:55 |
| kerio | they'll be crazy expensive | 17:55 |
| TiagoTiago | add some microelectronics and some extendable control surfaces and you got yourself heatseaking bullets | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1200-1500 whr/kg WOW | 17:56 |
| derf | kerio: Uh, space is the only place that lasers actually _can_ travel long distances without dissipation. | 17:56 |
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| kerio | derf: yeah but in a space fight you have two spaceships moving at relativistic speeds | 17:56 |
| kerio | and how much damage can you deal with a single ray? | 17:56 |
| kerio | kinetic weapons are way better for that | 17:56 |
| * DocScrutinizer starts up his battery of MTHELs | 17:57 | |
| GAN900 | TiagoTiago, they already had rocket bullets. | 17:57 |
| GAN900 | TiagoTiago, they sucked. | 17:57 |
| derf | I'm not arguing that lasers are a practical weapon. I'm just saying that there's no atmosphere to limit their range in space. | 17:57 |
| TiagoTiago | if they're moving at relativistic speeds, unless they got inertial dampeners and the shit, it should be easy to get behind one of them and fire straight, they will take too long to steer away from the line of fire | 17:57 |
| kerio | TiagoTiago: except that they can also fire *at you* | 17:58 |
| RST38h | GAN: You mean the Metal Storm people? | 17:58 |
| kerio | and you kinda want to avoid that :) | 17:58 |
| kerio | any object moving at more than 3 km/s packs its own weight in BLAM | 17:58 |
| derf | (as for things moving at relativistic speeds... munitions that travel at the speed of light are going to be _much_ more accurate than kinetik weapons that don't) | 17:58 |
| kerio | except that you can't travel at the speed of light | 17:59 |
| kerio | relativity? | 17:59 |
| derf | Light travels at the speed of light. | 17:59 |
| kerio | you aren't light though | 17:59 |
| kerio | and neither is your mom | 17:59 |
| kerio | *ba dum tsss* | 17:59 |
| TiagoTiago | just place a big metal plate on their way and let their ship be the kinetic ammo | 17:59 |
| derf | Fortunately, I'm not being fired at a spaceship. | 17:59 |
| RST38h | derf:Unless...well...there is an area where speed of light is different, in which case the beam will bend | 17:59 |
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| kerio | derf: yeah but a single photon is light | 17:59 |
| kerio | as in | 18:00 |
| kerio | it doesn't weigh that much | 18:00 |
| derf | RST38h: Requires a medium. Fortunately space is a vacuum. | 18:00 |
| RST38h | (and yes, that happens a lot on earth, try a teaspoon in a glass of water) | 18:00 |
| RST38h | derf: not entirely, not everywhere :) | 18:00 |
| kerio | derf: a single laser ray will only make a tiny hole in the other spaceship | 18:00 |
| derf | 1 atom per cubic meter is good enough for me. | 18:00 |
| TiagoTiago | if you got enough energy, it should be possible to focus an array of lasers in a small space and create a blackhole | 18:00 |
| RST38h | derf:On the other hand, if you are using the same light for targeting, and it also bends... well... | 18:00 |
| jaska | pushing a bunch of photons beyond their own event horizons? sounds ... strange | 18:01 |
| RST38h | Tiago: Cool,come back here once you have done so. | 18:01 |
| GAN900 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | derf: nope, gravity will do :-P | 18:02 |
| kerio | derf: you can't put guidance on photons though | 18:02 |
| TiagoTiago | photons got mass, it is very very small but it is there, put enough of them together and you got a blackhole | 18:02 |
| kerio | TiagoTiago: a small black hole | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahaha | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok true | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | funny thing about small black holes is they desintegrate really rapidly and violently | 18:03 |
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| TiagoTiago | if it isn't big enough just add more lasers | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | a black hole made from your sofa will probably not survive for 1 second | 18:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | 600 ton black hole evaporates in one second. | 18:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | With a sharp report. | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | then our solar system sees a nice flash and a earth blasted apart | 18:04 |
| TiagoTiago | how many watts is in a sofa? | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | e=mc^2 | 18:05 |
| kerio | i'll just leave this here http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/spacegunintro.php | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | let me put it that way: Hiroshima was <1g | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | way less iirc | 18:06 |
| TiagoTiago | how much M is in an average sofa? | 18:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm 200000? | 18:06 |
| TiagoTiago | and is E in Watts or some other unit? | 18:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: was that you who got a +q from me for ending *every* pst with a question mark? | 18:07 |
| TiagoTiago | i can't believe i've just came up with an aimable blackhole projector | 18:07 |
| TiagoTiago | sorry | 18:07 |
| RST38h | Doc: You can easily make that true. | 18:08 |
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| BCMM | TiagoTiago: watts are for power | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | Joule | 18:12 |
| BCMM | TiagoTiago: power is a measurement of energy/time | 18:12 |
| BCMM | a watt is one joule per second | 18:12 |
| n900-space | hey all | 18:13 |
| n900-space | :( my n900 is not booting >: | 18:13 |
| n900-space | its only showing yellow light !! | 18:13 |
| korhojoa | sounds like charging problems | 18:13 |
| n900-space | it all happened after i experimented with Meego though :$ | 18:13 |
| BCMM | yes, in SI E=mc**2 works with joules, kilos and meters per second | 18:13 |
| n900-space | but why now :o | 18:13 |
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| BCMM | if you use some other system of units, you need a conversion factor | 18:14 |
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| TiagoTiago | Joules per second, ok | 18:14 |
| korhojoa | n900-space: when did it run out of battery? | 18:14 |
| n900-space | the screen is stuck, the meego os tries to boot, with very dim colors, hard to see | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=convert+1g+mass+to+joule | 18:14 |
| korhojoa | under maemo or meego? | 18:14 |
| korhojoa | n900-space: then you should be at #meego-arm | 18:15 |
| n900-space | i dont know what it is trying to boot now | 18:15 |
| korhojoa | as a tip: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Recover_From_Drained_Battery | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | 8.988×10^13 joules | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | for 1 gram of mass | 18:15 |
| n900-space | it was booting meego with the sd card | 18:15 |
| n900-space | thanks korhojoa lemme check that link | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~8.988 * 10^13 *200000 | 18:16 |
| infobot | 2599961 | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~8.988 * 10^13 * 200000 | 18:16 |
| infobot | 2599961 | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | errm | 18:16 |
| korhojoa | n900-space: for future reference http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/Dual_Boot READ THE WARNINGS | 18:16 |
| BCMM | overflow? | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~8.988E13 | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~10^13 | 18:17 |
| infobot | 7 | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~10^^13 | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~10**13 | 18:17 |
| infobot | 10000000000000 | 18:17 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: in slightly more accessible units: http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=convert+1g+to+kilotons+of+tnt | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~8.988 * 10**13 * 200000 | 18:17 |
| infobot | 17976000000000000000 | 18:17 |
| BCMM | (please do not convert your sofa to energy on the same planet as me thanks) | 18:18 |
| korhojoa | :D | 18:18 |
| korhojoa | well uh, i already did that, sorry | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: for your sofa (200kg): http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=convert+200000g+to+megatons+of+tnt&x=0&y=0 | 18:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: sorry too late :-D | 18:19 |
| n900-space | korhojoa: I just plugged the device to the wall charger, and the yeallow light starts up (not blinking but just a constant yellow) | 18:19 |
| TiagoTiago | isn't M measured in kg of matter and not of TNT? | 18:19 |
| TiagoTiago | leave it like that for a couple of hours see if it changes | 18:20 |
| TiagoTiago | steady yellow is emergency charging mode i think | 18:20 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: by my calculations, i would've noticed by now if a reasonable-sized sofa had been converted to pure energy in this hemisphere | 18:20 |
| korhojoa | DocScrutinizer: holy crap, 1.7x the total energy from the sun that hits the earth in one minute | 18:20 |
| RST38h | BCMM: They are blown upall the time, but used to create black holes for time travel, so you notice nothing | 18:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | n900-space == drive-by poster? | 18:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: especially the ugly ones with transparent plastic protectors, as found at some grannies' living room | 18:26 |
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| n900-space | got dc | 18:26 |
| korhojoa | DocScrutinizer: no idea. a bit annoying though | 18:26 |
| korhojoa | DocScrutinizer: apparently not? | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~tell n900-space about flatbat-recover | 18:27 |
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| RST38h | Doc: The plastic protectors technology somehow passed over .SU, so I am hardly familiar with the subject | 18:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~tell n900-space about flatbatrecover | 18:27 |
| RST38h | Doc:Now, converting a modern fridge into pure energy might have been exciting... | 18:28 |
| n900-space | korhojoa: the link is pretty informative, i think i'll have to use another cell phone to charge .. but i dont know if its the charge problem or not cuz the nokia screen shows up, although dim, and then the os prints some lines | 18:28 |
| TiagoTiago | according to Google calculator, a sofa per second is about 1.79751036 × 10^20 watts | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | 17976000000000000000 | 18:29 |
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| korhojoa | TiagoTiago: we can power the earth forever with useless sofas! | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | according to infobot-docs-hybrid | 18:30 |
| TiagoTiago | is there a site where you give it a big number and it tells you how to say it out loud? | 18:30 |
| korhojoa | pronounciation assistance? | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I've written a shell script for that, on Amiga 1000 | 18:31 |
| korhojoa | http://www.mathcats.com/explore/reallybignumbers.html | 18:31 |
| korhojoa | http://www.webmath.com/saynum.html | 18:31 |
| korhojoa | seriously, i think people should be required to do a three second google search before asking questions | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | some 20 years ago | 18:31 |
| TiagoTiago | somthing like "two hundred twenty five trillions five hundred thrity billions seven hundred ninety one million twenty seven thousand forty two" | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | korhojoa: I think people should earn a automatic +q if exceeding their quota of questions per seco^H^H time unit | 18:33 |
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| korhojoa | Why do you say that? I don't think that's really fair. What if you want to ask a lot of questions? Would this message give me a +q? Why? I don't see why I can't put a question mark at the end of this sentence? Is there a point I'm trying to prove? Probably not? | 18:34 |
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| korhojoa | DocScrutinizer: in all seriousness, yeah, maybe. the hard part is detecting the questions | 18:34 |
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| korhojoa | when people type "but how can i do this even while that is connected because apparatus says line exceeded default setting can anyone help!!!" | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | even harder if you want to detect the questions put without even expecting any answer | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago's speciality | 18:35 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 18:35 |
| korhojoa | I sense sarcasm | 18:35 |
| korhojoa | Wow. I just came up with a pretty bad joke. I'd like to design a IC, and let it have a spidey-pin. It would be the sense pin. Triggering it would be called tingling. Guess what happens when you cause a change on the sense pin? | 18:37 |
| TiagoTiago | i do expect answers, i don't demand them nor think less of people if they aren't given though | 18:37 |
| korhojoa | There's a rhetorical question in there somewhere. | 18:37 |
| TiagoTiago | or is it | 18:38 |
| TiagoTiago | is there* | 18:38 |
| korhojoa | you did that on purpose, didn't you | 18:38 |
| TiagoTiago | what do you think | 18:38 |
| korhojoa | I kept reading that line and my fingers kept twitching. I just wanted to type "there*", but for some reason, I felt capable of restraining myself. | 18:38 |
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| TiagoTiago | oh, you mean the typo? no, not on purpose | 18:39 |
| korhojoa | doesn't matter what i think, what you do does | 18:39 |
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| TiagoTiago | or does it | 18:39 |
| korhojoa | that's what they all say | 18:39 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 18:39 |
| korhojoa | now, what's this "they all" group, they keep turning up, quite confusing | 18:40 |
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| TiagoTiago | anyway, lunch is read over here, better i take that opportunity to log off before i piss Doc beyond repair | 18:40 |
| TiagoTiago | cya | 18:40 |
| TiagoTiago | ready* | 18:41 |
| korhojoa | :P | 18:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, I'm fine | 18:41 |
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| TiagoTiago | can't type too fast or the N900 starts dreaming typos out loud | 18:41 |
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| TiagoTiago | my brain too | 18:43 |
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| ShadowJK | in the browser? | 18:45 |
| TiagoTiago | lots of places | 18:46 |
| TiagoTiago | but yeah, often in the browser | 18:46 |
| korhojoa | mine typoes everywhere | 18:46 |
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| korhojoa | when it for some reason doesn't type out the letters as fast as i type them, then it usually starts giving me the meta-shifted keys instead | 18:47 |
| TiagoTiago | somtimes with me it often eats half the sentence and continues as if nothing happened | 18:47 |
| ShadowJK | I only get it in the browser when typing into forums that use jabascript | 18:47 |
| ShadowJK | like tmo | 18:47 |
| TiagoTiago | but the blue chars also show up somtimes | 18:47 |
| ShadowJK | Never in xchat :) | 18:48 |
| korhojoa | yeah, i find the meta ones instead quite often. sometimes it also just drops whatever's been typed. | 18:48 |
| korhojoa | "hoops, oh well, the user won't notice" | 18:48 |
| korhojoa | ah, there. :D +w | 18:48 |
| TiagoTiago | i much rather how PCs do it, once you fill up the input buffer it starts beeping each time you try to input one more thing | 18:49 |
| korhojoa | yeah | 18:49 |
| ShadowJK | my pc doesn't do that :P | 18:49 |
| korhojoa | although | 18:49 |
| korhojoa | do you want a phone going "BEEP BEEP BEEP" in a meeting? | 18:50 |
| TiagoTiago | not if i set it to vibrate :P | 18:50 |
| ShadowJK | And the Xorg I'm using on my PC is stupid and ignores the timestamps set by kernel on input events, and instead uses the time() of when it (xorg) read the event for autorepeat purposes and such | 18:50 |
| ShadowJK | the maemo xorg might be doing something equall stupid | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, I never ever noticed this | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds like an ugly race conditions in IRQ service handler for keypress debouncing or sth like that | 18:52 |
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| ShadowJK | It's onlt noticeable under high system load, when Xorg gets no CPU for a period of time significantly longer than autorepeat delay, and if you pushed a key before xorg got cpu stalled | 18:52 |
| ShadowJK | only* | 18:52 |
| korhojoa | I don't know why, but mine seems to easily get to high system load | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | blueFn isn't xorg | 18:53 |
| korhojoa | I'm not usually doing much. maybe a browser page and terminal with a ssh connection open | 18:53 |
| ShadowJK | I was speaking about desktop here :) | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, that's why I always said load applet is a must have and should come with stock maemo | 18:54 |
| ShadowJK | But obviously if input method is creating its own timestamps or if xorg is creating its own timestamps and feeding them to input method, things will break | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | every user is supposed to always know about actual load of his device's CPU | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: More insidious than that. It does the same on the mouse events. | 18:55 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Which subtly borks accelleration, and makes it so you can't really 'learn' it | 18:56 |
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| ShadowJK | worst case latency for a swap access is about a second, if that hits one of the processes involved with keyboard input and they are doing that timestamp creation thing... | 18:56 |
| SpeedEvil | A half a second? | 18:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - to floppy. | 18:56 |
| ShadowJK | flash :) | 18:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah ha. | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | LS120 was lightning fast, even for normal floppies :-) | 18:57 |
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| TiagoTiago | why those things aren't more lower level and separated on their own processors? | 18:57 |
| ShadowJK | Well it depends, there are types that are evenly slow, and then types that are fastish until you trigger garbage collection at which point the request you sent takes a second to complete :P | 18:57 |
| ShadowJK | TiagoTiago, they are, it just gets lost by software later on | 18:58 |
| TiagoTiago | oh | 18:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Can anyone point me at a m3 family that has an ADC with DMA, and really low power when operating at a couple of megahertz? Or with the core stopped, and the ADC doing DMA? | 18:58 |
| SpeedEvil | oops | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, 120MB on a thing like a 3"5 floppy :-D | 18:59 |
| korhojoa | DocScrutinizer: ahh, MO-storage | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, laser guided magnetic storage | 18:59 |
| TiagoTiago | I thought they tried to save money and physical space by delegating functions that in the past ran on their own boards to software abstractions running on the CPU | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | could also read and write normal 1.44MB 3"5 floppies | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | and was fast as devil on that task | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | LS120, a lovely device | 19:00 |
| ShadowJK | TiagoTiago, basically it eats too much power to have the cpu check the state of the keyboard matrix, so there's a chip that does it and triggers an interrupt on the cpu, which makes it drop whatever it's currently doing to handle the new information | 19:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperDisk | 19:02 |
| TiagoTiago | so the CPU always knows When the keys are pressed and released, but it misuse that info? | 19:02 |
| ShadowJK | kernel adds a timestamp "key X was pressed down at time 123", and sends it to anyone who cares. When Xorg gets cpu time and runs, however, it's probably, and I'm speculating here, doing "Oh, X was pressed, let me check what time it is, ah, it's 255" | 19:03 |
| korhojoa | DocScrutinizer: yeah, they were popular during the mid-90's | 19:03 |
| korhojoa | too bad they didn't stick around :< | 19:03 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 19:03 | |
| ShadowJK | As for browser, it's a buggy hack, and always drops keys :) | 19:03 |
| * SpeedEvil has a devkit for http://www.amazon.com/Handspring-1001E-Visor-Deluxe-Graphite/dp/B00004TDN2 | 19:04 | |
| SpeedEvil | haha. They are now really cheap used. | 19:04 |
| korhojoa | "The Handspring Visor Deluxe is the hot new handheld that runs the popular Palm OS..." | 19:04 |
| korhojoa | alllll-rrrightythen | 19:05 |
| SpeedEvil | To be fair, its handwriting recognition is orders of magnitude better than the n900. | 19:05 |
| korhojoa | There's handwriting recognition on the n900? | 19:06 |
| korhojoa | (that's the joke) | 19:06 |
| andre__ | errr.... that was my question too now | 19:07 |
| ShadowJK | 5800's handwriting recognition was awesome. 5rying to train it, "i looks too similar to l, try again. l looks too similar to i, try again" | 19:07 |
| TiagoTiago | I think there is for Chinese | 19:07 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yeah - 'graffiti' wasn't really writing as we know it. | 19:07 |
| ShadowJK | I saw stroke order chinese in app manager today | 19:07 |
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| ShadowJK | Then I got depressed by the high number of apps in extras proper without a Description | 19:09 |
| TiagoTiago | I remember this old Palm i played with for some time, it was an interesting approach, though probably not up to today standards, you had to learn a new alphabet that worked as rsubstitution cypher, you wrote with the alien symbols and the device understood it as normal ASCII characters | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: foobar-frobbler. Description: frobbles your foobar | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: like that? | 19:10 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 19:10 |
| ShadowJK | no the tab for description was missing | 19:10 |
| TiagoTiago | how did they even passed the revision system to reach ethe main extras? | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I actually prefer that to the frobbler-scheme | 19:11 |
| ShadowJK | but "maemo xyzzy": "port of xyzzy" was also prominent :) | 19:11 |
| TiagoTiago | Kinda off topic; i hate how the asian writting system got so crazy logicless that instead fof working like most other languages in UNICODE they got one code point for each word and more | 19:14 |
| ShadowJK | and then they have codepoints for each radical too, I think :P | 19:15 |
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| ShadowJK | But it gets worse, chinese, koreans, and japanese might have the same word written in the same abstract way but looks very different, and that's same codepoint in unicode | 19:16 |
| ShadowJK | like if random letters in english suddenly were Blackletter or a gothic script instead of our usual (sans)serif :P | 19:17 |
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| ShadowJK | the fix seems to be to make sure you have no chinese or korean fonts installed if you want to read japanese | 19:18 |
| TiagoTiago | heh | 19:18 |
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| TiagoTiago | it is the type of thing that ticks me off | 19:18 |
| ShadowJK | importing all of "Wingdings" as-is into unicode is a type of thing that ticks me off :P | 19:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: That's just racist. | 19:23 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: The windingi people have rights too! | 19:23 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 19:23 |
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| TiagoTiago | What bothers me more than that is that they missed some symbols (i can't really remember which right now) | 19:24 |
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| TiagoTiago | what is the symbol for the sign ophiucus(sp?) ? | 19:30 |
| andre__ | TiagoTiago, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ophiucus+unicode ? | 19:31 |
| TiagoTiago | heh | 19:32 |
| andre__ | TiagoTiago, heh what? | 19:32 |
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| TiagoTiago | you lmgtfy'd me | 19:34 |
| andre__ | TiagoTiago: yeah, as you obviously didn't do the obvious before asking a totally maemo-unrelated question in this channel? | 19:36 |
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| TiagoTiago | sorry | 19:36 |
| andre__ | ...as the interwebs probably knows even more than the 450 peoples in here | 19:37 |
| TiagoTiago | ok, maemo related question: would i risk having memory or performance issues if i installed a font on my N900 that covers the whole Basic Multilingual Plane? | 19:37 |
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| ieatlint | TiagoTiago: sorry, we only answer off-topic questions here | 19:42 |
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| TiagoTiago | that is characters from u+FFFF down | 19:43 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 19:43 |
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| TiagoTiago | oh well, thanx for everything, cya | 19:52 |
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| Aranel | annoying as hell: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11559 please give me an idea to get it working :| (don't say "reflash") | 19:54 |
| povbot | Bug 11559: Conversations App - Scrollbar Appeared, Touch Scrolling Does Not Work | 19:54 |
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| eichi | hello, is there a way to make ssh over usb networking? | 20:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 20:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking | 20:19 |
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| pupnik | http://kb.mozillazine.org/Allowing_only_certain_sites_to_use_JavaScript we need a button for this | 20:30 |
| GAN900 | Love it when you run out of RAM | 20:31 |
| GAN900 | Sometimes Maemo just begs to be put through a blender. | 20:31 |
| eichi | there is some problem with aircrack and iw at the moment? cant install both of them | 20:32 |
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| * piggz is now using community ssu | 20:49 | |
| ShadowJK | GAN900, been browsing with fennec or microb? :P | 20:50 |
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| piggz | is it me or is modest faster? | 20:51 |
| Sc0rpius | it's faster :) | 20:51 |
| piggz | scoobertron: sweet ;) | 20:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 ☕ | 20:54 |
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| ShadowJK | is that unix time | 20:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | printf "0x\n" 12648430 | 20:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the unicode sign is tagged "hot beverage" :-) | 20:56 |
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| mgedmin | who uses decimal numbers for unicode codepoints? | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | who does? | 20:59 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer. | 20:59 |
| javispedro | =) | 20:59 |
| javispedro | and, morning. | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ☕ prints just fine here, as one unicode sign | 21:00 |
| mgedmin | U+00C0FFEE would be an appropriate codepoint for U+2615, actually | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | printf "%utf-8" 12648430 ;-P | 21:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles1 | Useless piece of shit phone. | 21:17 |
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| vi__ | so seeing as there is a major bug in kernel-power-settings is it possible to hardcode my desired values into the kernel so i can remove kernel-power-settings | 21:24 |
| vi__ | ? | 21:24 |
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| vi__ | furthermore has lxp's injection patches trickled down into titans kernels yet? | 21:26 |
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| vi__ | does 50$ seem like a reasonable bounty to get somone to compile tremulous for the n900? | 21:29 |
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| kerio | i don't think the quake3 engine works | 21:35 |
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| vi__ | any of yo broski's care to comment? | 21:37 |
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| rm_work | vi__: i think my bounty was the first to be officially finished on garage.maemo.org, and it was for 5 Euro :P so i think $50 could probably motivate someone, but i think mostly people do what they're interested in already | 21:43 |
| rm_work | so maybe someone is interested and just hasn't gotten around to it but would try again :P | 21:44 |
| rm_work | i mean, worst case no one does it so you don't pay anyone... no real loss | 21:44 |
| RST38h | rm_work: $50 will not motivate anyone nowadays | 21:45 |
| SpeedEvil | It'd motivate me. But I have no likelyhood of doing above - so meh. | 21:45 |
| rm_work | yeah prolly... back when enthusiasm was high, it would have motivated a stampede | 21:45 |
| rm_work | but now... :/ | 21:45 |
| rm_work | I just hang out here to talk to people i used to work with, don't really work on maemo any more :( | 21:46 |
| RST38h | Would never motivate anyone | 21:46 |
| rm_work | with a full time job that's always 45+ hours, and requiring 9+ hours of sleep to not want to stab people in the morning, i have very little real free time T_T | 21:47 |
| RST38h | But in addition to that, yes, I know what you mean | 21:47 |
| rm_work | RST38h: like i said, apparently 5Euro was enough to motivate Jott :P | 21:47 |
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| rm_work | whatever happened to jott, anyway :( | 21:47 |
| RST38h | rm_work: OMG | 21:47 |
| rm_work | ? | 21:48 |
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| RST38h | that was in ref to 5Euro thing | 21:48 |
| pupnik | how do you wake up lady gaga? you po-po-po pokerface! | 21:48 |
| rm_work | nice | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | jott died from alcohol intoxication, when going highlife with your $5 | 21:50 |
| rm_work | lol i highly doubt that, considering the time I blacked out in Berlin trying to keep up with him... T_T | 21:50 |
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| rm_work | lcuk hasn't mocked me about that recently :P maybe he's finally forgotten | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | tbh nobody will want to implement lxp1's wifi patches into titan's powerkernel, without lxp1 himself helping on it. Those who might want to don't have the qualification, or refuse to get the patches out of childish objections against the domation asked for | 21:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and since lxp1 said he'll push titan to implement it to PK... | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh the $50 were for something else actually. I was already going WTF for why anybody would want to pay for integration of wifi patches to PK, but refuses to donate to lxp for getting the same thing for possibly less $$ | 21:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lxp1: how's the donation business going? Extrapolating from what'S been donated for h-e-n I'd guess you must have reached almost 200 bucks now... :-/ | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | lxp1: any chances you'll ever cross the "break-even"? | 22:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lxp1: (sorry if that's been answered in tmo thread recently - I refuse to read any more of the posts in that thread, gets me too upset) | 22:01 |
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| lxp1 | DocScrutinizer: really good, i am nearly at my set limit and as i already said i am planing to push a compat-wireless package in extras | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | cool shit man!! :-D Nice to hear that | 22:02 |
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| lxp1 | by the way, is titan sometimes around here in #maemo? | 22:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not anymore it seems | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen t-tan | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm | 22:04 |
| infobot | t-tan <~tanner@e179094244.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 234d 23m 13s ago, saying: 'smoking hot device?'. | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: ping | 22:04 |
| infobot | ~pong | 22:04 |
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| lxp1 | ah okay, then i better drop him a mail | 22:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | famous last words of the inventor of OC | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | scnr ;-P | 22:05 |
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| vi__ | people were really bothered by the donations thing? bizare. a man can sell his code if he wants! | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | lxp1: you maybe got better luck when talking to MohammadAG | 22:06 |
| lxp1 | DocScrutinizer: okay, i am thinking about making a meta-package for compat-wireless, which should be included in the kernel-power source package | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | lxp1: ...though titan seems to respond to mail still | 22:07 |
| vi__ | what about 80$? | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, lxp1 ? | 22:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: PK with inj | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG | injection? | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 22:09 |
| lxp1 | i think it would be best if we have a separate compat-wireless package | 22:09 |
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| MohammadAG | and we integrate the inj patches in "upstream" kernel-power | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | right? | 22:10 |
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| * DocScrutinizer leans back and grabs popcorn | 22:10 | |
| lxp1 | MohammadAG: the problem is my current injection patches are based on a different driver base | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | yep | 22:11 |
| lxp1 | originally it is the same base, but the fremantle wl1251 driver is somewhat a fork | 22:11 |
| MohammadAG | and you need compat-wireless for them to work on 2.6.28 | 22:11 |
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| lxp1 | yeah exactly | 22:11 |
| lxp1 | and to make that compat-wireless package compatible with different PK i thought about using a meta-package architecture | 22:12 |
| lxp1 | so that a "compat-wireless" meta package will be in the power-kernel source package | 22:13 |
| MohammadAG | ah | 22:13 |
| lxp1 | which only depends on a compat-wireless-PKVERSION package | 22:13 |
| MohammadAG | so you want kernel-power to make one more package along with kernel-power -modules and -flasher | 22:13 |
| lxp1 | yeah, which doesn't actually ship any files only a dependency | 22:14 |
| MohammadAG | hm, why? | 22:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | isn't it like the kernel modules are dependent on a kernel, and not the other way round? | 22:15 |
| MohammadAG | both depend on each other | 22:15 |
| lxp1 | yeah, with this architecture we then have a compat-wireless package for each kernel-power | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | shit, so my kernel would pull in all random rubish modules then | 22:16 |
| MohammadAG | ah | 22:16 |
| MohammadAG | missing dkms | 22:16 |
| MohammadAG | I WANT DKMS | 22:16 |
| MohammadAG | but we need gcc and the current kernel's headers | 22:16 |
| vi__ | yo mohammed i will pay you 80$ to port tremulous to n900. the debian armel bianry already works but hardware acceleration (opengles instead of opengl)does not. whaddya say bro? | 22:16 |
| lxp1 | and i'd like to use this meta-package architecture, so that i can push compat-wireless updates also to older PK versions | 22:16 |
| MohammadAG | I don't do paid stuff :P | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't want kernel module for USB rocket launcher ;-D | 22:17 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, yes, but I do, I can't terrorize without it | 22:17 |
| vi__ | so you will do it for free? woot! | 22:17 |
| lxp1 | i am planing to set up something like an autobuilder script to keep up with compat-wireless releases | 22:17 |
| MohammadAG | Well, I've never used OpenGLES, so... | 22:17 |
| MohammadAG | maybe ask alterego :P | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: see? that's why modules need to depend on a kernel version, but kernel must not depend on all modules existing for it | 22:18 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, you need MOAR modules | 22:18 |
| MohammadAG | lxp1, ah, sounds interesting | 22:18 |
| MohammadAG | lxp1, you can email titan, he responds to those afaik | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | for now I've seen modules getting installed via tar -xvzf, and iirc also via dpkg -i | 22:19 |
| lxp1 | there is only one open question: if i upload a package with build-depends: kernel-power-headers (= exact version from extras!, not extras-devel) - does this work? | 22:19 |
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| lxp1 | or does the maemo extras builder only have the extras-devel repo? | 22:20 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, that's a good one | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch, now I see. We got different PK versions in extras, and -testing, and -devel | 22:21 |
| MohammadAG | -devel keeps sources | 22:21 |
| MohammadAG | so you could try | 22:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so how would you offer a kernel module in -devel, for a kernel form extras? | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | and, even more funny, how to offer a differing module version for the PK kernel in -devel? | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | peak hilarity: the module matching the -devel PK might eventually promote to -teing and even extras :-P | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | -trsting* | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsck | 22:24 |
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| * DocScrutinizer idly wonders how many kernel modules could get optified, and how many actually are | 22:25 | |
| BCMM | that has to be a bad idea for some reason... | 22:26 |
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| lxp1 | DocScrutinizer: that's why i want to do the meta-package thing, so i can have compat-wireless packages for multiple PK versions in extras-devel, which hopefully will somehow promote to extras | 22:27 |
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| lxp1 | by the way, will PR1.3 really be the last update from nokia? | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | lxp1: I'm basically a noob about kernel pkging. But aiui a metapkg is just to combine several pkgs so they all get installed at once. It's ok for me, as far as concerns about dependencies (though it would suffice if your wireless pkg would depend on a PK, no?). But I don't see how it helps with cross-repository kernel VERSION problems - you can't pkg diferent modules matching different kernel VERSIONs, into one metapkg, or did I miss sth | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | here? | 22:31 |
| RST38h | s/will/was ? | 22:31 |
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| lxp1 | DocScrutinizer: the advantage of a meta-package is that users simply install "compat-wireless" and then automatically get the right "compat-wireless-PKVERSION" package | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | lxp1: nobody knows | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | lxp1: oh, I wasn't aware of this function | 22:33 |
| lxp1 | a meta-package is a package which only has dependencies and doesn't ship files at all | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 22:34 |
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| lxp1 | and if the dependency is choosen right you can get this behaviour | 22:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's beyond my scope | 22:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (toldya, packaging noob here) | 22:35 |
| lxp1 | it's not that complicated | 22:35 |
| lxp1 | the compat-wireless meta package is included with kernel-power, so it always has the same version as kernel-power | 22:36 |
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| lxp1 | and is also promoted with kernel-power (i think) | 22:36 |
| lxp1 | and each compat-wireless package for the different PK versions, has a different dependency (namely compat-wireless-PKVERSION) | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | that sounds good, yes | 22:37 |
| lxp1 | so when you install compat-wireless for power46, it depends on compat-wireless-power46 | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | NFC how debian packaging is managing that, but sounds good (if you know how to do it :-> ) | 22:38 |
| lxp1 | every version of a package can have different dependencies, so simply said you change the dependency of compat-wireless with each PK release | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | main question: who and when is building compat-wireless-PKVERSION pkgs then? | 22:40 |
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| vi__ | 22:41 | |
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| lxp1 | i will do that and i am planing to use a autobuilder script as cronjob for this | 22:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | duh, on buildhost? | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | or is that a remote repo then? | 22:42 |
| lxp1 | no, on my own server. it just builds the source package and uploads to extras-devel | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ahh, I see | 22:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | basically you need to collect the PK-VERSION kernel-headers for all existing versions, and integrate them into one package that will result in matching keernel modules for all those versions on buildhost | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | sth like that (remember, noob here... ;-) | 22:45 |
| lxp1 | no, there will be a compat-wireless-PKVERSION package for each PK version | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh | 22:46 |
| lxp1 | that's what i am hoping that the extras builder also has the older kernel-headers available | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok | 22:46 |
| lxp1 | so it can satisfy the build-depends for the older compat-wireless-PKVERSION packages | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, I learnt sth about how buildhost works, lately | 22:47 |
| lxp1 | by the way, i will not build compat-wireless packages for all PK versions | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | it seems it simply installs all dependencies into a temporary environment, so you can use them | 22:47 |
| lxp1 | first this needs a small change in PK, so all current versions will not be supported | 22:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hell and brimstone, I'm glad musc-core is a monolithic module ;-D | 22:49 |
| lxp1 | and next i will only support the lastest version in extras, extras-testing, extras-devel | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | musb-core* | 22:49 |
| Arkenoi | Why isn't "fixed" pulseaudio package included in "community ssu"? | 22:49 |
| ieatlint | how common is the term "singleton class" ? | 22:51 |
| Proteous | more common than eating lint | 22:53 |
| ieatlint | you'd be surprised | 22:53 |
| Proteous | not everyone puts already chewed gum back in their pockets for later | 22:54 |
| ieatlint | i don't chew gum | 22:54 |
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| lcuk | rm_work, I haven't seen you chatting recently :P | 22:59 |
| rm_work | :P | 22:59 |
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| spiritd | hmm | 23:17 |
| spiritd | i tried this http://www.edimax.com/en/produce_detail.php?pd_id=295&pl1_id=5&pl2_id=26 + N900 ... 3-4 hours of pinging | 23:18 |
| spiritd | i need to tried it once again... forgot to write responses to file so i am not sure about exact time | 23:19 |
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| Venemo | achipa: ping | 23:27 |
| achipa | Venemo: pong | 23:28 |
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| Venemo | achipa: is there a Qt Creator nightly yet that solves the problem we talked about earlier? | 23:31 |
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| Venemo | achipa: by which I mean the problem that Qt Creator forces packaging upon me | 23:33 |
| achipa | the deploy-don't package ? | 23:33 |
| achipa | right | 23:33 |
| achipa | yep | 23:33 |
| achipa | a sec... | 23:33 |
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| achipa | but wait, the official nightlies don't work for you ? | 23:33 |
| achipa | I thought they were already ok... | 23:34 |
| Venemo | achipa: that's what I'm asking | 23:34 |
| Venemo | achipa: is it fixed in the nightlies yet? | 23:35 |
| achipa | Venemo: well the checkbox is there and checkable, but I didn't try to see whether it actually works... | 23:35 |
| Venemo | achipa: okay. | 23:36 |
| achipa | I can check in a minute... | 23:36 |
| Venemo | achipa: I would be grateful if you could check | 23:36 |
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| Venemo | achipa: my second question would be, how can I ask the Qt SDK installer NOT to install Qt Creator? I don't want to have it installed more than once. | 23:37 |
| achipa | achipa: AFAIK not possible ATM, QtC is the only component that is welded & hardwired | 23:37 |
| achipa | talking to myself... sheesh | 23:37 |
| Venemo | np | 23:38 |
| Venemo | but it is embarassing that I also talked about this bug about a year ago | 23:38 |
| Venemo | then the guys told me not to open a bug report for this as they'll solve it soon... seems that it still didn't happen yet | 23:38 |
| achipa | oh, we're good with embarassing :D | 23:38 |
| Venemo | hehe | 23:39 |
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| achipa | but anyway, I have Jan31 build here, and the verdict is... | 23:39 |
| achipa | (compiling) | 23:39 |
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| achipa | Venemo: worx ! | 23:40 |
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| achipa | p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; } Mount operation succeeded. Copying file '/home/attila/src/kisstester/kisstester-build-maemo/kisstester' to path '/opt/usr/bin' on the device... Successfully copied file '/home/attila/src/kisstester/kisstester-build-maemo/kisstester'. | 23:41 |
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| pupnik | "The most irresponsible and un-regulated group in any society is the bureaucracy - since they are not accountable to any customer who chooses to buy their services voluntarily." - pupnik | 23:55 |
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| ieatlint | "The most off-topic and useless comments are the ones that seek to start political debate, especially with no pretext" -- ieatlint | 23:57 |
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