IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-01-07

saLOUt	BCMM: with keys doesn't work. I'll get an debug3: no such identity error	00:00
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saLOUt	with root user, public key login works. I just copied the .ssh folder over to ~user and changed the owner/group of these files	00:01
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SpeedEvil	It doesn't work unless you set a password	00:15
SpeedEvil	I dunno why	00:15
SpeedEvil	keys work then	00:15
BCMM	i was wondering why my keys didn't work...	00:16
njain	hey please tell me how to export the path variable in unix bash shell, so that it persists	00:16
BCMM	njain: what do you mean by "persists"? so it is set next time you start the shell?	00:17
SpeedEvil	you need to save it in a profile, or other startup script	00:17
njain	yes	00:17
BCMM	njain: .bashrc	00:17
njain	i have tried setting it in .bashrc	00:17
njain	but doesn't shows up in echo $PATH	00:17
njain	the changes	00:17
njain	:(	00:18
njain	also tried changing /etc/environment	00:18
BCMM	probably because there is no .bash_profile	00:18
njain	and tried creating a new ./bash_profile	00:18
BCMM	i could be wrong, but i think it i usually up to .bash_profile to execute .bashrc (not sure why)	00:19
njain	there isn't any .bash_profile	00:19
njain	otherwise	00:19
njain	i created it just to put the new PATH variable	00:19
BCMM	SpeedEvil: is it a bad idea to set a pass for user, btw? wondering why it's been made difficult	00:20
njain	BCCM: yes, you are correct .bash_profile decides to execute .bashrc...	00:20
njain	read somewhere	00:21
njain	BCMM: where in .bashrc?	00:21
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SpeedEvil	BCMM: Add a "*" in the password field - that should work	00:21
njain	i am adding it in the end	00:21
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BCMM	SpeedEvil: in /etc/passwd?	00:22
SpeedEvil	yes	00:22
BCMM	SpeedEvil: and that permits the use of SSH keys?	00:23
BCMM	so what do * and ! mean anyway?	00:23
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BCMM	! isn't mentioned in the passwd man page, and * isn't explained	00:23
SpeedEvil	* means a password value that hashes to *	00:23
SpeedEvil	And no password values hash to *	00:24
SpeedEvil	From memory, ! means 'no login'	00:24
BCMM	ah, so * is simply an illegal hash	00:25
BCMM	the ultimate hard-to-guess password :)	00:26
SpeedEvil	yes	00:26
SpeedEvil	This is from memory though.	00:26
SpeedEvil	Please check.	00:26
njain	hey, adding the export PATH statement at the top of .bashrc worked	00:26
njain	thanks!	00:27
SpeedEvil	I am suffering parity errors.	00:27
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BCMM	huh, that's an odd /etc/passwd	00:27
trumee	why is it shit slow to grab images in modest?	00:28
BCMM	i mean, why is user no-logon, and why is it 29999 when 1000 would be traditional?	00:28
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BCMM	thanks, my SSH keys works now	00:31
SpeedEvil	:)	00:32
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BCMM	thing is, i know it worked before (before 1.3 maybe?), and i know i never manually edited /etc/passwd before	00:33
BCMM	also, it gives the most uninformative error: "Permission denied (publickey).", which usually happens if i don't have an authorised key	00:34
khertan	hum if i do a from PyQt4.QtGui import * QFileDialog works ... but not if i do a from PyQt4.QtGui import QFileDialog	00:35
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SpeedEvil	ssh has stupid errors	00:36
khertan	SpeedEvil: Qt too :)	00:38
MohammadAG	khertan, file a bug?	00:38
MohammadAG	Python* :P	00:38
BCMM	well, now i think about it, the protocol probably insures that the client knows as little as possible about the reasons for a failure, for security reasons	00:39
MohammadAG	[106079.472290] pvr: hildon-desktop: cleaning up 103 unfreed resources	00:39
MohammadAG	hmm	00:39
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khertan	MohammadAG: i ll probably do ... but before need to write a sample case	00:40
khertan	and the sample case is working	00:40
MohammadAG	don't you hate it when that happens :P	00:41
khertan	so probably more complex	00:41
khertan	as it display gobject error	00:41
MohammadAG	I think my device's dying	00:41
MohammadAG	[100662.680511] HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered	00:41
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khertan	i think an other import is the problem	00:42
khertan	MohammadAG: ouch ... indeed ... doesn t look good	00:42
MohammadAG	khertan, it happens on all devices, and usually (99% of the time), the device recovers and only shows a couple frame drops	00:43
MohammadAG	a reboot always fixes it, but it's annoying	00:43
* MohammadAG looks for things to blame		00:43
SpeedEvil	bug 9150	00:43
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/9150 Device doesn't respond via UI. syslog reports HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered, sgx_misr eating all CPU	00:43
MohammadAG	MeeGo SGX driver will do for now	00:43
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, no SGX_Miser	00:43
MohammadAG	CPU load is 0.00	00:44
MohammadAG	but the screen was blank	00:44
khertan	mine have some strange wifi problem which believe to be connected but isn't [28470.121276] wlan0: roaming signal from driver, sending HIGHSIGNAL	00:44
khertan	[28483.204223] wlan0: roaming signal from driver, sending LOWSIGNAL	00:44
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SpeedEvil	yeah - read the comments to that bug	00:44
MohammadAG	shows here too	00:44
SpeedEvil	there are a number of bugs	00:44
SpeedEvil	Not all eat cpu	00:44
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* alterego hopes mplayer will understand the audio in this video file.		00:46
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khertan	No i think i should read a bit QFileDialog source to understand the problem	00:47
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MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, 97 comments o_O	00:49
MohammadAG	and by Nokia people	00:49
alterego	mplayer framerate is impressive.	00:49
Ex-Opesa	Hello. How can I increase desktops? I would like 6-7 desktops. ^^	00:50
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Ex-Opesa	In maemo frementle.	00:50
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MohammadAG	use search, lots of tutorials on tmo	00:51
MohammadAG	alterego, I find gstreamer a lot better for FLVs, no idea why	00:51
Ex-Opesa	tmo?	00:51
MohammadAG	~tmo	00:51
infobot	well, tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo	00:51
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MohammadAG	heh	00:51
MohammadAG	~t-mo	00:51
infobot	i heard t-mo is T-Mobile	00:51
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Ex-Opesa	Okay..	00:52
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trumee	SpeedEvil, tor causes microb to crawl, is that normal?	00:53
SpeedEvil	I don't use tor.	00:53
* trumee has never used tor before		00:53
SpeedEvil	Also - tor is not fast generally	00:53
SpeedEvil	'pings' of several seconds are not uncommon	00:53
SpeedEvil	as your data is going through several hops, over what may be contended networks at each step	00:54
trumee	SpeedEvil, ah!. SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) has Joined #maemo	00:54
SpeedEvil	It's a lie.	00:54
MohammadAG	lol	00:54
trumee	right	00:54
SpeedEvil	Set by lilo, back in the day, when it was easier for him than editing the table of tor exit nodes, after I ran a tor exit node for a day.	00:54
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mikki-kun	hm, how can i x-forward on the n900? :)	00:55
* trumee reads on tmo that Mediaplayer doesn't use pulseaudio. why?		00:55
MohammadAG	bullcrap, ignore it	00:56
MohammadAG	who's the noob who said that? :P	00:56
khertan	MohammadAG : importing QDirModel fix the problem	00:56
khertan	:)	00:56
trumee	MohammadAG, so it does use pulseaudio?	00:56
SpeedEvil	all sound does	00:56
MohammadAG	what doesn't	00:56
MohammadAG	exactly	00:56
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khertan	MohammadAG: Most tmo are bullcap	00:57
khertan	MohammadAG: Most tmo are bullcrap	00:57
mikki-kun	the whole n900's soundsystem is based on pulse...	00:57
SpeedEvil	you can use the hw directly throguh alsa - but it requires hackery.	00:57
MohammadAG	exactly	00:57
SpeedEvil	And none of the stock stuff supports it	00:57
mikki-kun	i can sing there a song about that	00:57
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trumee	hmm. there was a thread about Sygic and Mediaplayer unable to use sound together since both use sone libalsa library instead of pulseaudio.	00:57
Venemo_N900	khertan: yes, but it shouldn't be bullcrap	00:58
nszeek	Yo guys, I am trying to convert some video files to play on my nokia n900. It says it accept mpeg4 so I am using 'ffmpeg -i <input file> -vc mpeg4 <output file>' which doesn't work. Any hints ?	00:58
MohammadAG	it might not use pulseaudio directly, but it interfaces with mafw, which interfaces with gstreamer, which interfaces with pulseaudio	00:58
Venemo_N900	nszeek: try playing with mplayer?	00:58
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MohammadAG	trumee, the mediaplayer doesn't even handle music playback	00:58
MohammadAG	it interfaces with the backend, mafw	00:59
trumee	MohammadAG, will your mediaplayer allow independent volume control?	00:59
ShadowJK	Actually, I've been driving with Sygic, while having Media Player stream internet radio over FM transmitter to my car's radio. Whenever Sygic wanted to say something, media player paused internet radio, sygic voice told me directions, media player resumed radio stream.	00:59
nszeek	Venemo_N900: mplayer @ my machine or @ the n900 ?	00:59
MohammadAG	trumee, not really planned, no	00:59
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: yeah, I'd be surprised to find this crap about blocking libalsa to be correct	00:59
ShadowJK	The default alsa device is also pulse :P	01:00
trumee	ShadowJK, i happy for the music to be paused. But i want my music to play louder but sygic instructions to play low.	01:00
khertan	Someone have already use twitpics ?	01:00
trumee	ShadowJK, *am happy	01:00
trumee	ShadowJK, because i play N900 through car stereo and gps instructions get a bit loud.	01:01
Venemo_N900	nszeek: on n900	01:01
nszeek	Venemo_N900: Alright. I will try that. Need to get my wireless working here so might be a while =P	01:02
* DocScrutinizer seems to recall "individual volume per app" being one of the falsely claimed advantages of PA over ALSA		01:02
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MohammadAG	windows can do individual volumes :P	01:03
DocScrutinizer	ALSA can do that	01:03
DocScrutinizer	even seamlessly	01:04
trumee	MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=591444&postcount=148	01:04
DocScrutinizer	uhuh, an URL	01:04
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trumee	is that not true?	01:04
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MohammadAG	LOL	01:05
MohammadAG	libplayback uses pulseaudio	01:05
DocScrutinizer	I'm not clicking arbitrary random URLs anymore	01:05
MohammadAG	trumee, wanna check something?	01:05
MohammadAG	stop pulseaudio, and run sygic	01:05
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MohammadAG	if it plays audio, it doesn't use PA	01:06
MohammadAG	or you didn't stop pulseaudio properly	01:06
trumee	MohammadAG, right	01:06
mikki-kun	killall -9 pulse* <--- that one should do the trick i guess	01:06
DocScrutinizer	pasuspender sleep 200	01:07
mikki-kun	we want it killed!	01:07
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mikki-kun	^^	01:07
DocScrutinizer	I want a pony	01:07
mikki-kun	DocScrutinizer: i can get you one :)	01:08
mikki-kun	a pink one?	01:08
DocScrutinizer	blarg	01:08
DocScrutinizer	midnight blue, please	01:08
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MohammadAG	daylight blue ftw	01:09
DocScrutinizer	infrared	01:09
* MohammadAG tried to take an epic picture, the N900 showed the sky as white		01:09
johnx	transparent	01:09
* MohammadAG was pissed		01:09
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I use bluetooth when filming	01:09
MohammadAG	it works better than IR lighting	01:10
MohammadAG	I read about that on tmo	01:10
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DocScrutinizer	who said lighting?	01:10
DocScrutinizer	I want an infrared pony!	01:10
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MohammadAG	I'm sure you want a pair of eyes that see infrared too	01:11
MohammadAG	of course, you could always overclock your current eyes	01:11
DocScrutinizer	you're sure I don't have these yet?	01:11
mikki-kun	MohammadAG: but that might involve permanent damage	01:11
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: overclocking is bad	01:11
mikki-kun	x)	01:11
DocScrutinizer	in fact I can see infrared floodlights of surveilance cams	01:11
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: let's implement USB host mode to his eyes	01:12
MohammadAG	then just get rid of the visible spectrum	01:12
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: then attach an IR camera via usb	01:12
MohammadAG	and use ultrasound with the doppler effect	01:12
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DocScrutinizer	yeah, I can hear ultrasonic too	01:14
_trine	no need to do that as we all live in a large hologram already	01:14
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mikki-kun	does here anybody know if the n900 supports X-forwarding?	01:15
DocScrutinizer	yes	01:15
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, shhh, you're destablizing the matrix	01:16
mikki-kun	hm, is the warning about "no xauth data" interferering with x-forwarding not working?	01:16
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johnx	mikki-kun, I've seen that when doing forwarding on desktops as well	01:16
johnx	are you trying to display apps running on your desktop onto the N900 or the other way around?	01:17
mikki-kun	what does it effectively imply?	01:17
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johnx	not sure, really. I think it means that there was no existing xauth data	01:17
mikki-kun	i want to e.g. have openoffice on my n900 which gets started on my server so the n900 won't have to do the whole calculations	01:17
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mikki-kun	and also other apps maybe	01:17
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mikki-kun	so like having them in the cloud	01:18
johnx	so you're ssh'ing from the N900 to your desktop, then you run openoffice and what does it say?	01:18
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DocScrutinizer	I'm using vnc for this	01:18
mikki-kun	well, it works, but the message is annoying :)	01:18
DocScrutinizer	aaawww	01:19
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johnx	err, the X forwarding works and you're complaining? :P	01:19
mikki-kun	and if it is a bug i shall make a bug report	01:19
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johnx	do you have xauth installed on your desktop?	01:19
mikki-kun	johnx: it tells me something about non-existing xauth data the one way, but not the other	01:19
mikki-kun	so if i ssh to the n900 there is no complaint	01:19
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mikki-kun	but if i ssh from the n900 there it complains	01:20
johnx	<johnx> do you have xauth installed on your desktop? < mikki-kun	01:20
mikki-kun	i guess i should have	01:20
mikki-kun	yup	01:21
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mikki-kun	in both cases	01:21
mikki-kun	current netbook and also my server	01:21
johnx	then, i dunno. I guess you could submit a bug to your distro if you really wanted to, or ... google for that error message	01:21
johnx	also: kinda surprised at how well openoffice works forwarded ...	01:22
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mikki-kun	johnx: the fun just is i am not getting the error when i ssh from netbook to server back and forth	01:23
mikki-kun	just when i and even from both machines to the n900	01:23
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mikki-kun	but from the n900 to either one this error seems to arise	01:24
mikki-kun	i mean warning	01:24
johnx	this? Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding.	01:24
mikki-kun	yes :)	01:24
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mikki-kun	i am not sure where the problem now is, is it on the n900 then or my installed xauth on both machines?	01:26
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johnx	anyways, google concludes that it's a harmless message triggered because the system wasn't using xauth	01:29
mikki-kun	then i assume it must be on the n900's end	01:29
johnx	now, on the other hand. you likely won't be able to get apps on the N900 to display on your desktop because a bunch of them manually set DISPLAY while starting	01:29
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mikki-kun	ahhh, that's why i can't start them on a remote screen	01:30
mikki-kun	i always wondered	01:30
mikki-kun	thanks for that :)	01:30
johnx	some might work, especially 3rd party ones	01:30
Tamyrlin	mikki-kun: Well, you might not have xauth installed on the N900 as well	01:30
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mikki-kun	indeed, it isn't listed there :o	01:31
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johnx	when I asked if you had it on your desktop, I think I misinterpreted where you were seeing the message	01:33
mikki-kun	thanks mate... i assumed it was installed with openssh	01:33
mikki-kun	johnx: no problem :) now i have one more thing resolved :)	01:34
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MohammadAG	bah	01:43
MohammadAG	N900 crashed again	01:43
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MohammadAG	[ 3613.134674] pvr: hildon-desktop: cleaning up 96 unfreed resources	01:43
mikki-kun	uhhh, tells me nothing tbh	01:44
johnx	are you running a modified hildon-desktop?	01:44
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_trine	MohammadAG, maybe its the matrix	01:44
_trine	:)	01:44
mikki-kun	johnx: i guess he does :)	01:44
mikki-kun	he is searchign for ways to exploit the system!	01:45
MohammadAG	johnx, yes	01:45
MohammadAG	hildon-desktop's dead	01:45
MohammadAG	starting it doesn't work	01:45
johnx	yeah. I'd guess that's why your N900 rebooted	01:45
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MohammadAG	it didn't reboot	01:45
johnx	ah. fun times	01:45
MohammadAG	who said it rebooted :P	01:46
APTX	is this normal, or just something you did?	01:46
johnx	you have a recovery boot setup, right?	01:46
MohammadAG	crashing != rebooting	01:46
MohammadAG	no, R&D mode	01:46
johnx	I ASS-U-MEd	01:46
MohammadAG	you got that from friends eh? :P	01:46
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rm_work	ono johnx	01:53
johnx	m00f rm_work	01:53
rm_work	not ASS-U-MEd	01:53
pupnik	it freaks me out that MohammadAG is such an awesome guy living in such a horrible place	01:53
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rm_work	anywho, off now :P didn't realize you did IRC at wor... oh, right, you're off this week	01:54
rm_work	>_>	01:54
MohammadAG	horrible?	01:54
* rm_work waves		01:54
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johnx	'later rm_work :D	01:54
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johnx	pupnik, what? he lives in New Jersey?	01:54
MohammadAG	It's a jersey thing :P	01:55
BCMM	MohammadAG has a hostmask. That means he doesn't have an actual geographical location.	01:56
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johnx	BCMM, sooo, he lives on the Internet?	01:56
MohammadAG	no, I live in the matrix	01:56
MohammadAG	Israel	01:56
johnx	Israel is the Matrix...I think that movie makes less sense now ...	01:57
BCMM	johnx: well, it's the assumption I make about anyone who cannot be geoiplookuped	01:57
johnx	BCMM, and that makes you unaffiliated. Would you like to become an affiliate?	01:57
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BCMM	johnx: which mafia are you asking me to join?	01:58
johnx	BCMM, hmm, I think I was going to ask you to join an advertising affiliate network, but I'm not sure that's really different from a mafia ...	01:59
BCMM	johnx: if Zion is in the Matrix, you interpreted that film differently from me	01:59
BCMM	wrong highlight, sorry	01:59
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BCMM	no, wait. not wrong highlight. i just need sleep	02:00
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johnx	I'm quite awake and still confused :)	02:01
BCMM	johnx: it helps if you've seen the stupid matrix sequels	02:01
BCMM	no wait, there is a reference in the first film	02:02
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johnx	yeah, I saw those. I choose not to think about them overly much though ...	02:02
BCMM	good move	02:03
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FauxFaux	Is there an easy way to delete contacts with no details? I've removed a skype account and I have loads of empty contacts.	03:07
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DocScrutinizer	FauxFaux: only idea I can think of is the delete-dups application - maybe it can be modified. Or you can get some inspiration from the way it detects and handles duplicate contacts	03:30
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DocScrutinizer	aaah, moment of thinking.... You could export all contacts to vcf, then clean out the empty contacts by sed/awk/grep whatever, delete original database with all contacts, and import the cleaned vcf	03:31
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DocScrutinizer	err s/vcf/vcard/ ?	03:32
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* pahartik would like to upgrade Maemo firmware to R1.3 but package manager does not offer it		03:40
ShadowJK	Probably something from extras-testing or extras-devel installed with package manager or apt-get that conflicts or has disabled automatic os updates..	03:42
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jacekowski	pahartik: flash it	03:47
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jacekowski	if you never flashed your phone you'r not hardcore enough to use it	03:47
ShadowJK	lol	03:47
ShadowJK	(make a backup first, always a good idea)	03:48
MohammadAG	backups aren't hardcore	03:48
MohammadAG	recovering your data after losing it is	03:48
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jacekowski	Now Playing: Shakira - Underneath Your Clothes	03:49
pahartik	jacekowski: I do not have MacOS X 10.5, only MacOS X 10.4... And Flasher 3.5 is not available for PowerPC Linux or SPARC Linux...	03:49
jacekowski	pahartik: get a real PC	03:50
ShadowJK	what's the meta-package called again..	03:50
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MohammadAG	mp-fremantle-generic-pr	03:50
ShadowJK	Yeah, check if that's installed	03:52
pahartik	ShadowJK: And I already removed "kernel-power" to see if it helps... It did not help, so I put it back... Few days later, I tried removing kernel-power and booting with official crippled kernel, still nothing	03:53
FauxFaux	DocScrutinizer: Mmm.	03:53
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pahartik	ShadowJK: "dpkg --list \| grep mp-fremantle" did not find anything	03:55
ShadowJK	try apt-get install it	03:56
MohammadAG	he can't install an older version of it	03:57
ShadowJK	oh, well, that's a problem :-)	03:57
jacekowski	pahartik: thing is that you have big chances of ending up with something not working	03:58
MohammadAG	not if he fakes it	03:58
ShadowJK	And thus my advice is even harmful. pahartik don't do it!	03:58
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pahartik	ShadowJK: I did not do it	04:00
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nidO	huh, turns out what I thought would be a relatively straightforward video streaming system is actually totally nonexistant :<	04:05
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em	how is maemo doing?	05:30
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luke-jr	em: dead	05:33
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johnx	"luke-jr: maemo is dead. maemo: luke-jr is dead." (with apologies)	05:35
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luke-jr	Maemo isn't God	05:37
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johnx	and you aren't Nietzsche	05:39
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GAN900	Probably doesn't make it less accurate, though. ;)	06:02
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SpeedEvil	http://xkcd.com/ ++	07:52
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luke-jr	SpeedEvil: corporate world just skips from spaghetti to "done"	07:57
luke-jr	free world says screw the requirements :P	07:57
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iluminator101	how do i make call to a foreign country as if its a local phone in n900	08:08
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psycho_oreos	you do the same as you normally would with a regular mobile/cell phone?	08:09
SpeedEvil	skype?	08:09
psycho_oreos	or maybe that using calling cards?	08:09
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iluminator101	there must another way	08:10
lcuk	psycho_oreos, i was stood outside a pub and somebody actually asked about an app/extension for mobiles	08:11
lcuk	to allow selection and use of contact names during a call to give the tones thing for their number	08:11
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lcuk	so you can call the country redirect and then pipe in the actual number	08:11
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psycho_oreos	lcuk, allow what sort of selection? some button or something? I don't quite get you	08:13
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luke-jr	iluminator101: why? N900 isn't a phone. why do you expect some unusual phone function?	08:16
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luke-jr	iluminator101: it's got a basic phone app, nothing complex.	08:17
lcuk	psycho_oreos, well normally in a call you can open the dialpad, but you have to know the number	08:17
iluminator101	luke-jr, i talking about using asterisk	08:18
lcuk	when you dial these cheap calls to X countries	08:18
luke-jr	iluminator101: you didn't say that.	08:18
lcuk	it makes sense to allow selection by content	08:18
lcuk	to then put the tones into the call	08:18
lcuk	:)	08:18
luke-jr	iluminator101: and if you're calling via SIP, then it totally depends how you've configured your Asterisk PBX to route such calls	08:18
lcuk	selection by contact *	08:18
iluminator101	also my n900 alarm is not annoying enough how can i change it	08:19
luke-jr	;p;	08:19
luke-jr	lol	08:19
psycho_oreos	lcuk, still don't quite get it sorry, probably because I'm cranky over trivial things and these trivial matters accumulated into headache	08:21
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Rubon	is there any screen video capture application for N900?	11:13
defragger	whats the meaning of: /var/lib/dpkg/info/account-plugin-salut.postinst: line 6 /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon: not found dpkg: error processing account-plugin0salut	11:13
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djszapi	http://upstart.ubuntu.com/index.html -> this pages writes Maemo platform uses upstart, but I do not see any /etc/init/ folder on my N900 ? What do I do wrong ?	11:44
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djszapi	seems very system-v way instead with /etc/init.d/ scripts.	11:47
djszapi	any comment on that ?	11:48
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pupnik	debian does it that way	11:49
djszapi	yes, but it is maemo channel :P	11:50
pupnik	i used to be a bsd-guy myself	11:50
djszapi	yes, that is the slack, arch way for instance.	11:50
pupnik	back when i pwned systems	11:50
djszapi	I would just like to get more information about upstrat on maemo.	11:50
pupnik	oh	11:50
djszapi	* upstart, daemons (fex. udevd) does not run in a shell, but I could do a job for that in /etc/init/, so it is a bit confusing for me right now.	11:51
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chem\|st	grml the files in /home are all that small that 11MB/s is the highest rate I get...	11:55
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chem\|st	it will take ages to make a full backup...	12:01
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pupnik	Apple's slogan should be "do you have too much money? we can solve that!"	12:04
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ieatlint	apple is like an abusive boyfriend... it tells you what you like, what to buy, and what you should or shouldn't be watching, and wants to track your every move	12:05
pupnik	nice	12:06
djszapi	glad to laugh at idiot jokes :)	12:07
pupnik	what would that be, djszapi	12:07
djszapi	I think it is not too late to get out of a troll way =)	12:07
djszapi	so let me do it =)	12:08
ieatlint	i stand by my analogy... the taking your money, and the creepy loyal following that insist apple can do no wrong... it's completely like a abusive relationship	12:08
pupnik	:)	12:08
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pupnik	ieatlint: what about guys who are not creepy but genuinely nuts?	12:08
ieatlint	they're fired, and then later are re-hired as CEO	12:09
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chem\|st	ieatlint: I like the google strategic game analogy too...	12:10
ieatlint	google will do anything to make you look at more ads	12:10
ieatlint	and they're very good at it	12:10
chem\|st	if the world had been a real time strategy game google would have been the techy and we seriously left him alone for too long!	12:10
ieatlint	hah, nice	12:11
chem\|st	techies win the game after PONR	12:11
ieatlint	their strategy of letting their devs work on their own shirt part time that is then google property is genius	12:11
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ieatlint	blah, their own shit	12:11
chem\|st	also refered as P0WNER (point of WTF no eeeick return)	12:12
ieatlint	they drop $70-90k/year on a person (sub-par for the industry), throw some free food and a volleyball court at them, and walk away with your good ideas on top of everything else	12:13
chem\|st	for sure	12:13
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chem\|st	and the people buy it	12:14
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ieatlint	i'm just bitter, the HR person who did my interview fucked up and sank my referral :P	12:14
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chem\|st	;)	12:15
chem\|st	just do the real good shit while not in google time!	12:15
ieatlint	seriously, the bitch fucked up while reading from her script	12:15
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toresbe	ieatlint: well, that and the ability to work on really interesting and significant stuff with other people who consider that to be a significant motivator, which is not to be discounted	12:18
toresbe	I'm fairly sure I'd consider working with a bunch of people who do it for the money demoting in itself, let alone me.	12:19
ieatlint	toresbe: i'd argue 70% of their staff are there because when they started they went "holy shit i'm working for google"	12:19
toresbe	sounds like a fair assesment	12:19
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ieatlint	my point isn't specifically to criticise google... i think they do pretty well with their "don't be evil" motto, and obviously pretty well at making money	12:22
ieatlint	and they don't mistreat their employees... more of a comment that they are extremely intelligent at exploiting their employees	12:22
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ieatlint	which i kinda admire :P	12:22
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flat`	anyone knows how can i fix the proplem i have with listening music, it stops in middle of songs too often	12:23
Appiah	I've started to have this problem recently	12:23
defragger	how to fix this: The following packages have unmet dependencies: libtelepathy-qt4-farsight0: Depends: libtelepathy-qt4-0 (= 0.2.0-2maemo5+0m5) but 0.2.0-2maemo7+0m5 is to be installed	12:24
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Appiah	I thought it had to do with my headphones + headphone daemon	12:24
defragger	?	12:24
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Appiah	but I never debugged/troubleshooted yet	12:24
SpeedEvil	flat`: are you listening on headphones	12:26
SpeedEvil	flat`: on the headset - ratehr	12:26
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MohammadAG	rather*	12:28
flat`	headphones yeah	12:29
flat`	would love to find another music player with EQ	12:30
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lolloo	headphones!	12:31
lolloo	since your talking about it	12:31
crashanddie	you're	12:31
lolloo	hehe	12:31
MohammadAG	heh	12:31
lolloo	I have WH-701 headphone	12:32
lolloo	is there a script or a coding to make the pause and play work with media player?	12:32
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MohammadAG	no, we want an oscilloscope for that	12:32
kerio	bluetooth?	12:32
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MohammadAG	obviously not	12:32
lolloo	I kind like WH-701 it has a good bass, also it is comfy on my ear	12:32
Appiah	flat`: do you got the headphone daemon running? that stops music if the headphones get disconnected	12:33
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flat`	Appiah: no	12:34
Appiah	ok	12:34
Appiah	so what the hell stops the music O_o	12:34
lolloo	hehe	12:34
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Appiah	I was talking a walk yesterday , music stopped 10~ times	12:35
lolloo	No codes or script guys? for WH-701?	12:35
MohammadAG	no, do i have to repeat myself again?	12:35
lolloo	no you dont.	12:35
MohammadAG	thanks	12:35
lolloo	but can it be created?	12:35
MohammadAG	:P	12:35
Appiah	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=901210	12:36
MohammadAG	no, we want an oscilloscope for that	12:36
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dneary	yoyo	12:36
MohammadAG	hey dneary	12:36
lolloo	osciloscope	12:37
lolloo	needs google translate	12:37
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MohammadAG	a physics book will also do :P	12:37
lolloo	mmm physics?	12:38
MohammadAG	yes, I leanred about oscilloscopes 2 or 3 years ago	12:39
* phellarv loves a good curve		12:39
MohammadAG	that was 9th/10th grade	12:39
lolloo	hehe	12:39
lolloo	maybe I know it if I heard it in my language	12:39
lolloo	ok ok I can do it dont tell me	12:40
lolloo	wait wait dont	12:40
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comawhite	yay my irc socket is almost done (it works now) all I need to do is create the gui work pretty much for it	12:40
kerio	your what?	12:41
comawhite	then there will be a native maemo irc client	12:41
lcuk	comawhite, ?	12:41
comawhite	?	12:41
kerio	there... is	12:41
lolloo	MohammadAG, how is your media player going?	12:41
comawhite	where?	12:41
Appiah	haha	12:41
lcuk	xchat is gtk	12:41
kerio	there's xchat	12:41
comawhite	xchat is not native	12:41
kerio	...why?	12:41
comawhite	doesn't follow any of the HiG?	12:42
lolloo	I am really escited, because mms:\\ streaming doesnt work with default player.	12:42
MohammadAG	HiG is gtk	12:42
kerio	comawhite: thankfully!	12:42
comawhite	it's just the desktop recompiled for phone	12:42
lcuk	MohammadAG, technically its hildon	12:42
MohammadAG	lolloo, video's not yet implemented	12:42
SpeedEvil	kerio: well - touch-scrolly window would be nice	12:42
Appiah	lolloo: mplayer should work?	12:42
comawhite	also does xchat support both view modes like mine will?	12:43
lolloo	Appiah, it doesnt.	12:43
lcuk	comawhite, please don't let irc wrangling stop you	12:43
comawhite	also have a different view for servers, user, channels?	12:43
* lcuk will test your app also		12:43
comawhite	wrangling?	12:43
lolloo	mms:\\66.132 etc	12:43
Appiah	are you using mms:\\ or mms:// btw? :D	12:43
lolloo	mmm let me check again.	12:43
comawhite	lcuk: well just idle in #akiirc and I'll let you know when it's up for testing	12:43
dneary	This made me smile: http://twitter.com/disconn3ct/status/23052579894202369	12:44
lolloo	Appiah, mms://66.172.3.142/3	12:44
lcuk	comawhite, nahh	12:44
lolloo	try it on mplayer. mine doesnt work.	12:45
lolloo	but works on desktop	12:45
comawhite	lcuk: okay then just watch for it on the site :>	12:45
lcuk	i am happy with xchat but when I am not i just play with my sketching irc client instead	12:45
kerio	SpeedEvil: how will you select text then?	12:45
comawhite	Hopefully people will like it	12:45
Appiah	connected	12:46
Appiah	then I get disconnected (connection refused)	12:46
lcuk	comawhite, http://liqbase.net/liq.20091201_141600._maemo.scr.png	12:46
lolloo	correct	12:46
lolloo	but if you try on desktop it wokrs	12:46
Ex-Opesa	I have this VOIP http://dialer.webs.com/ but its available for 32 bit system and windows. Is there any way I can extract server and use that information and use it by some way on n900?	12:46
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comawhite	lcuk: what is that done in?	12:47
lcuk	its written in pure awesome	12:47
comawhite	seriously	12:47
lcuk	yeah, original awesome didn't have enough features, so I rebuilt it with the updated pure awesome	12:48
lolloo	Appiah, worked on desktop?	12:48
lcuk	comawhite, its a liqbase app	12:48
SpeedEvil	kerio: I'd be happy with only movement >1 line/second at the start of the stroke doing the kinetic thing	12:48
comawhite	liqbase?	12:49
* lcuk goes back to work		12:49
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Appiah	lolloo: compare the mplayer versions	12:52
lolloo	I used also KMplayer	12:53
lolloo	also knots2	12:53
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SpeedEvil	kerio: Also - with text selection, I'm almost alwasy wanting to select under 1 line	12:56
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lolloo	Appiah, btw thanks for the link! it suddenly stopped.	12:59
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lardman	morning	13:12
lolloo	afternoon	13:13
lardman	hi lolloo	13:14
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lolloo	hi lardman	13:15
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: I would hold shiftkey to select text. Well that's just me	13:57
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retro\|cz	Anyone using ICQ on N900 ?	13:57
retro\|cz	I have all updates (1.3 i think).	13:57
retro\|cz	And can't connect to ICQ.	13:57
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retro\|cz	Don't know how to setup it. Number and password is ok.	13:58
DocScrutinizer	kerio: another suggestion I gave months ago was: enter scroll mode on initial movement vertical, enter highlight mode on initial movement horizontal	13:58
lolloo	retro\|cz, do you use pidgin?	14:00
DocScrutinizer	for xchat I'm rather happy with my keybindings: up/down == scroll	14:00
lolloo	me shift + up or down	14:00
DocScrutinizer	shift-up/down == textinput history	14:00
lolloo	mmm better,	14:01
sivang	DocScrutinizer: suggestion for which device/app?	14:01
retro\|cz	lolloo, no, just those extra protocols	14:02
DocScrutinizer	sivang: generic suggestion for finger scrolling in textboxes	14:02
retro\|cz	lolloo, i like that mobile integration	14:02
retro\|cz	lolloo, pidgin is standalone application ?	14:02
retro\|cz	lolloo, without contacts integration ?	14:02
lolloo	yeah	14:02
retro\|cz	lolloo, :(	14:02
lolloo	yeah	14:02
lolloo	hehe	14:03
retro\|cz	lolloo, and no chance to use ICQ with contacts integration now ?	14:03
lolloo	no there is a chance.	14:03
lolloo	I tried it on PR1.2	14:03
lolloo	worked, but I will try it on pr1.3.	14:04
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: such that items will not get accidently pressed whe you really just want to scroll ? :-p	14:07
retro\|cz	lolloo, thank you	14:08
DocScrutinizer	sivang: unrelated to my suggestion	14:09
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retro\|cz	lolloo, http://www.devcomments.com/N900-AIM-and-ICQ-account-problems-i26437.htm	14:09
sivang	DocScrutinizer: ok, I've bentring to thinkg of a solution to that so thought you might be experiencing the same	14:10
DocScrutinizer	I do	14:10
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retro\|cz	lolloo, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=461439#post461439	14:10
sivang	it is really annoying lately, especially when our contact list gets so buig	14:10
DocScrutinizer	I even changed my start menu to doubleclick on other phones	14:10
lolloo	retro\|cz, seems correct since it worked on PR1.2	14:11
lolloo	but watchout it might break other accounts.	14:11
sivang	DocScrutinizer: != N900?	14:11
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DocScrutinizer	sivang: SHR (on FR back when) - so the problem is quite universal and well known	14:12
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: what's SHR and FR?	14:13
DocScrutinizer	sivang: and I blame developers using their desktop and mouse to simulate the phone touchscreen	14:14
DocScrutinizer	~shr	14:14
infobot	i guess shr is The Stable Hybrid Release (SHR), intended to be a community driven distribution composed of the FSO and some basic applications, that can be configured to use several different graphical toolkits, for example GTK or EFL. SHR is based on the FSO build. At first, SHR was introduced in order to use the Openmoko2007.2 GTK software in combination with the new FSO, but things have changed.	14:14
sivang	~FSO	14:16
infobot	from memory, fso is the freesmartphone.org mobile devices middleware.	14:16
sivang	~efl	14:16
infobot	it has been said that efl is the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries. See http://enlightenment.org/index.php?id=18 The core libraries of the EFL are: Evas, Ecore, EET, Embryo, Edje, Esmart, EWL, and ETK.	14:16
retro\|cz	lolloo, that forums solution to downgrade is working	14:16
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: good note to reember, use the actual ophone for the testing	14:17
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lolloo	retro\|cz, congratz! and nice find!	14:17
lolloo	~bot snack	14:18
DocScrutinizer	sivang: ofono?	14:18
infobot	aw, gee, lolloo	14:18
DocScrutinizer	sivang: what's ophone?	14:18
sivang	DocScrutinizer: sorry the phone	14:19
sivang	I am opn 3Gdata, onto my ssh session	14:19
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sivang	in the uk	14:19
sivang	I'm in a train in Israel	14:19
sivang	let's hope it does not burst into fames :)	14:20
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sivang	http://www.vosizneias.com/72049/2010/12/28/israel-train-catches-fire-in-sharon-passengers-injured-jumping-from-train/	14:22
DocScrutinizer	sivang: aah yes. Alas raster when working on E* never does	14:22
DocScrutinizer	or rarely	14:22
sivang	DocScrutinizer: could you put the last sentence in stupid's english, as it seems too high for me :)	14:23
sivang	DocScrutinizer: well, alas is the denote a contrast, working on E* ?	14:23
DocScrutinizer	raster (Casrten haizler, the rasterman) never develops Enlightenment and related EFL on a phone	14:24
sivang	*to	14:24
ieatlint	if it weren't for raster being in that sentence, i'd have assumed E meant something else	14:24
sivang	ah, I see	14:24
sivang	wat phones carry SHR?	14:25
DocScrutinizer	Neo FR, Palm pre, some HTC?, N900	14:25
ieatlint	palm pre? huh	14:25
ieatlint	with the radio working even?	14:26
DocScrutinizer	no idea	14:26
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DocScrutinizer	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkWbb_BetI&feature=related	14:28
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ieatlint	ah... old memories there	14:32
ieatlint	definitely better there than on the old FR	14:32
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DocScrutinizer	:-) yeah	14:33
minus273	hi all	14:33
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minus273	a little off-topic, but I'm compiling libhildon 1.99 for my laptop	14:34
lolcat	Dont maemo support voice call throug msn?	14:34
minus273	the compiler complains that it can't find the symbol HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_NUMERIC,	14:34
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* sivang dreams of adding support to fmxtd to prove for available bands		14:35
DocScrutinizer	hildon desktop on laptop?	14:35
DocScrutinizer	o.O	14:35
lolcat	Does it support voice with msn?	14:35
minus273	DocScrutinizer: yeah, in fact I'm trying to fire up a hildon application only available in binary	14:36
DocScrutinizer	that's probably a bit of a task	14:36
lolloo	lolcat, I dont think so	14:36
* ieatlint notes that the sdk includes an x86 binary for libhildon		14:37
DocScrutinizer	I wonder however which hildon app is available as x86(!!!) binary only	14:37
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DocScrutinizer	doesn't make any sense to me	14:37
* sivang2 wished he recalled where are the links for the spec sheet and other important infof or the fmxtd to tryt to make it work		14:37
sivang2	I think SpeedEvil sent it to me	14:38
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DocScrutinizer	sivang2: wiki, hardware	14:38
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minus273	DocScrutinizer: some obscure Chinese thing	14:38
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: k, thanks	14:38
DocScrutinizer	sivang2: speedevil did an amazing job to document it all there	14:38
minus273	DocScrutinizer: it was for a television box based on libhildon, I think	14:39
DocScrutinizer	o.O	14:39
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sivang2	DocScrutinizer: I wonder if I'm smart enough to pull this hadware hacking thingo	14:40
sivang2	I'll start by reading the spec, for sure or docs there	14:40
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DocScrutinizer	sivang2: wait a few minutes. I probably have a different even better working approach for you. You may use it if you mention my (c) of original idea	14:42
DocScrutinizer	I will think another few minutes about it, so I don't tell BS	14:42
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minus273	DocScrutinizer: seems solved, --with-maemo-gtk=no	14:45
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: ofcourse.	14:45
DocScrutinizer	sivang2: your usecase: find a free frequency in FM broadcast band to pair N900 to a radio receiver ?	14:45
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: but keep in mind I am on this terrible 3G,and my net can go off any minute without warning.	14:46
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: precisly	14:46
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: that's what I want to do, because in IL bands are abused massively by pirate radio stations	14:46
DocScrutinizer	I may edit some wikipage, so you can access my concept sketch any time	14:46
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sivang2	DocScrutinizer: so it is like an hour to find a fre band to pair the N900 to liten to finnish radio statiuons	14:47
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DocScrutinizer	sivang2: I see	14:48
DocScrutinizer	thanks for giving this additional info	14:48
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: well, to stream them off 3G data which works beautifully to the fm	14:48
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: hehe	14:48
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: well, would it help if I'd say it save lives?:)	14:49
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DocScrutinizer	not really	14:49
DocScrutinizer	I'm strictly authistic EE	14:49
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sivang2	DocScrutinizer: I also listen Hungarian and some Germen ones :)	14:50
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DocScrutinizer	means I'm designing tasers and defibrilators :-P	14:50
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ieatlint	ooh, i want a taser	14:51
DocScrutinizer	as long as it has no potential for mass destruction or big-brother mass deployment, I don't care if it safes life or is for porn	14:51
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sivang2	DocScrutinizer: heh, okay, I thought you were being sarcastic as in "TMI" for the fact I use it for my language fetsh	14:52
DocScrutinizer	saves*	14:52
sivang2	fetish	14:52
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: what's authistic EE ?	14:52
DocScrutinizer	~dict autism	14:52
infobot	Dictionary 'autism' (1 of 3): (psychiatry) an abnormal absorption with the self; marked by communication disorders and short attention span and inability to treat others as people.	14:52
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: and EE?	14:53
ieatlint	you're not autistic :P	14:53
DocScrutinizer	Electroniccs Engineer	14:53
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ieatlint	aspergers maybe, dunno you well enough... but i've had to spend time with an actual autistic EE, and he uh... yeah.... and was even considered a high functioning autistic	14:54
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: I see, I actually found that aspreger describes some of my behaviors and other life views :)	14:54
alterego	"Where the hell is Qt apps?" urgh	14:54
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alterego	Sometimes it'd just be nice to tell people to fsck off :D	14:54
sivang2	alterego: how's that related to that channel? :)	14:54
DocScrutinizer	sivang2: then you know what I meant	14:54
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: indeed :) anyway thanks for your help and if something gets out of it you'd be in the credits, just as in the FEA where I even added you latest comments	14:56
DocScrutinizer	yw	14:56
em	is maemo still active or is it meego now?	14:56
ieatlint	em: yes	14:57
alterego	Maemo is still pretty active	14:57
Appiah	so it's a yes	14:57
DocScrutinizer	sivang2: additional question: what does the channel sound like - on radio -that is usable for pairing the N900, when N900 does not TX?	14:57
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DocScrutinizer	em: my cpu load quite frequently hits the 95%, so yes - maemo is very active	15:01
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sivang2	DocScrutinizer: you mean, if it has no signal snow or slient altogether?	15:02
DocScrutinizer	yes	15:03
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lardman	hmm 4 cores running with an average of 12%, crappy commercial simulation code, should be pegged at 100% and running faster	15:03
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: that depends,I've found out that even channels that have a bit of snow on them, will submit to N900's txer	15:03
* lardman grumbles to himself		15:03
DocScrutinizer	sivang2: thanks	15:03
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: ofcourse clean chanelwith low noise level is best	15:03
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sivang2	DocScrutinizer: how can I measure the tx streanght that is tillgood to try and subdueD?	15:04
DocScrutinizer	hard to do	15:04
sivang2	ok	15:05
sivang2	let's start with what we've go	15:05
sivang2	got	15:05
sivang2	what re tasers? like the device making the sirens?	15:06
sivang2	and other are for bootstraping human hearts rght?	15:06
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DocScrutinizer	sivang2: sure. Nice to see how that works out. But I have systematic concerns against that concept. I'll hack it all up into a supplement to wiki hw pages and point you at it	15:07
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sivang2	DocScrutinizer: great, thanks. I have no idea how to start so that'd be good.	15:07
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DocScrutinizer	~taser	15:07
infobot	TASER provides advanced Electronic Control Devices (ECDs) for use in the law enforcement, military, correctional, security, and personal protection markets. TASER devices use proprietary technology to incapacitate dangerous, combative, or high-risk subjects who pose a risk in a manner that is generally recognized as a safer alternative to other uses of force.	15:07
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DocScrutinizer	500kV via 2 wies with arrows	15:08
sivang2	hmm, I see. so they give exact measaured electricity shock to just paralize an offender	15:08
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: haha	15:08
DocScrutinizer	there have been fatalities however	15:09
sivang2	DocScrutinizer: the web site says something about "proprietary technology, highly advanced"	15:09
sivang2	ofcourse-	15:09
sivang2	when you're dealing wiht bilological creaturs, non are alike	15:09
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DocScrutinizer	basically a taser and a heart defibrilator are quite similar in what they do ;-D	15:09
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sivang2	DocScrutinizer: yes, hence it made sense to me with your previous sentence about that you make both	15:11
DocScrutinizer	that's why I've chosen that example (though I never designed a taser yet, for industry)	15:11
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chx	the problem with taser is that the police was told it's nonlethal so they used on everyone to lower their own risk of being hurt but then nonlethal turned out to be untrue...	15:11
DocScrutinizer	exactly	15:11
lardman	I always wondered about the injury rate caused by a head falling from ~6' and striking concrete	15:12
flashn	whats wrong with a telescopic baton?	15:12
DocScrutinizer	also thermo protective wear with a tin foil layer effectively counteracts tasers ;-D	15:12
sivang2	flashn: lol	15:12
pupnik	and teraherz scanners	15:13
flashn	good ol baton wont kill anyone	15:13
lardman	flashn: depends how you hit them	15:13
flashn	guess you can kill someone with a baby depending on how you use it	15:13
pupnik	like it's 1964	15:13
lardman	flashn: true, batons are probably less prone to failure though	15:14
lardman	less maintenance anyway	15:14
flashn	most importantly its way more manly	15:15
DocScrutinizer	babies are highly dangerous, when fired with an initial velocity of >200m/s	15:15
* lardman wonders what this code is actually doing to run so slowly ~12% cpu usage across 4 cores, ~1 IO write per second, ~15MB memory usage		15:16
DocScrutinizer	even worse when frozen XP	15:16
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DocScrutinizer	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHfejwdrMVQ	15:18
lardman	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqsytx5RNmw&feature=related	15:19
lardman	I'll have to wear a plexiglas protective layer along with the tin foil then	15:20
DocScrutinizer	that's what I was looking for, but they used frozen chicken X-P	15:21
DocScrutinizer	the chicken even destroyed the pilot seat by a massive impact	15:21
lardman	the F-16 one?	15:22
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DocScrutinizer	was a civil plane iirc	15:22
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lardman	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibJ3aXrvaCs looks bad	15:22
DocScrutinizer	waiting for myrtii commenting about our drug usage patterns	15:23
maybeHere	wasn't the pilot protecting his seat?	15:23
lardman	true :)	15:23
lardman	I knew there was a reason it's not all done by remote control now ;)	15:24
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maybeHere	at least with the f35 the HUD wouldn't shatter	15:24
maybeHere	as there is none	15:24
lardman	in helmet?	15:24
maybeHere	yeah	15:24
maybeHere	at least as far as i know	15:24
maybeHere	also, lol at the sabot'ed chicken in that discovery chan video	15:25
khertan	Hello All	15:28
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Jaffa	'lo khertan	15:40
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* khertan is crying on statusnet for getting help for khweeteur oauth problem some users have		15:44
khertan	with identi.ca	15:44
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* lardman finally emerges from YouTube		15:46
* khertan still didn't see how oauth can be more secure		15:46
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tybollt_	wow - changing to android really exposes the most major of the maemo flaws	15:58
tybollt_	no working ota contacts sync	15:58
tybollt_	Really hope meeg will fix that	15:58
lardman	me too	15:59
alterego	MeeGo has a nice backend for that stuff	15:59
alterego	bbl	15:59
lardman	am currently using my wife's old Android phone while my N900 is dead	15:59
tybollt_	yeah, work got me a new one	16:00
lardman	is good to see my calendar event immediately synced	16:00
tybollt_	lardman: uhuh	16:00
tybollt_	lardman: or how you can change and merge contacts in your webbrowser and insta-sync - voila - they're on your phone	16:00
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lardman	yes, I've always said this about Android, it;s very well integrated	16:00
lardman	I'm wondering if it will automatically ask me if I need directions to my appointments too	16:01
lardman	the klind of stuff I'd have loved to add to Maemo, had we realised earlier that no(t many) enhancement requests would be handled	16:02
tybollt_	yeah	16:03
tybollt_	the framework was all there (ovi.com)	16:03
andrewfblack	My N900 is in a box somewhere now since I got my Android phone but I haven't given up on Meego yet	16:04
lardman	or even using Google, just that the map and calendar apps and indeed the contacts frontend weren't open	16:04
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tybollt_	but the blasted idiots that are nokia decided that their best phone as the only phone in their roster was going to be the one not to be supported... HEADEXPLODE	16:04
lardman	well I could understand that if they got on and released something new	16:04
pupnik	andrewfblack: for real? android is super annoying	16:04
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tybollt_	andrewfblack: yeah, meego is obviously promising	16:05
andrewfblack	pupnik: I have things about Android I hate	16:05
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andrewfblack	pupnik: I also have things about iOs I hate but I an ipad	16:05
pupnik	are you sure you belong in this channel? :)	16:05
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lardman	pupnik: not accepting that some other products do things better is silly	16:06
tybollt_	pupnik: You sometimes wonder why the contacts sync issue is kept sooooo quiet about around here.	16:07
andrewfblack	pupnik: I'm sure I do, I have the box full of Maemo devices to prove it. If we see a Meego tablet I will get it but I'm not going to wait until then I got my iPad,	16:07
* lardman is tempted to buy an HTC Android phone and install Meego on it		16:07
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pupnik	i have an android device but for me there are less apps than with maemo	16:07
pupnik	and 80% of what i've downloaded is unusably lame	16:08
andrewfblack	To me N900/Maemo = Cool toy to play with, develop on, and see what I can make it do. Backflip/Android = Phone to call people and play games on.	16:08
khertan	for me android it s lack of a good python support :)	16:08
lardman	I'm not bothered about apps, but really about the basic functionality, and Android does look and work reasonably well - something to try to emulate	16:08
khertan	i think meego lack of a good sync of calendar and contact	16:09
nidO	thing is, any device lacks "basic functionality" depending on what your definition of basic functionality is.	16:09
pupnik	lardman: there are indeed good ideas in there... i'm glad it is winning vs something like microsoft	16:09
khertan	s/meego/maemo	16:09
pupnik	and even apple is *nix based which is also cool	16:09
khertan	pupnik: but totally close	16:09
lardman	pupnik: I'd prefer us to be able to steal the good ideas and make e.g. Meego the dominant platform	16:09
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pupnik	lardman: how about the fine grained app permissions?	16:10
lardman	I think that is quite a good idea	16:10
pupnik	there's a japanese version of that for linux - like SElinux but simpler	16:10
lardman	at the very least it lets you know what the app will do, but isn't it just a case of filling in all the fields manually when you add the app rather than doing real analysis of the useage?	16:11
pupnik	http://tomoyo.sourceforge.jp/wiki-e/?WhatIs	16:11
tybollt_	lardman++	16:13
tybollt_	Maemo lacks some very basica and fundamental ... oh PHONE features :)	16:13
lardman	well it was a reasonable start, if only it could have been improved more easily by us	16:13
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lardman	and I think the fundamental mistake there was to expect that adding enhancement and non-critical bugs would actually result in anything	16:14
lardman	while we really should have just re-written the ui stuff from scratch from the get go	16:14
pupnik	what was wrong about the ui stuff?	16:15
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lardman	I meant apps which had a ui, which meant we then couldn't see the code	16:15
pupnik	oh	16:15
lardman	e.g. calendar, phone-ui, maps, contacts, etc	16:16
edheldil	I like n900, but you are right that it was criminally neglected by Nokia	16:16
pupnik	it's hard for a big company to abandon a major investment like symbian	16:16
pupnik	and resources are limited	16:16
lardman	I'm sure it's not malicious, but it's just a shame	16:17
tybollt_	pupnik: For contacts sync - everything was in place - why can't the N900 to this date - do ovi.com OTA calendar/contacts sync? It is not about resources or manpower obviously :)	16:17
* tybollt_ guessing some kind of politics at play		16:17
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pupnik	ah that's a big one	16:18
edheldil	what's OTA? Over-the-air, i.e. through GSM?	16:18
tybollt_	edheldil: yes	16:18
tybollt_	edheldil: all symbian phones can do that	16:18
pupnik	i saw regular people using n900s in finland	16:19
pupnik	it was amazing	16:19
edheldil	I have an old Treo and sometimes n900 for duty calls	16:19
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lardman	battery sure does die quickly on this Tattoo though, constantly connected	16:20
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BluesLee	MohammadAG: ping	16:45
MohammadAG	pong	16:45
BluesLee	MohammadAG: you wrote that i should compile against the kernel headers ... its the first time i am compiling something, how i do that?	16:46
MohammadAG	apt-get install kernel-power-headers	16:46
BluesLee	MohammadAG: first time with kernel modules/kernel	16:46
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BluesLee	MohammadAG: i did that	16:46
BluesLee	MohammadAG: they are located in /usr/sr	16:46
MohammadAG	/usr/src/kernel-power-headers/	16:47
MohammadAG	yeah	16:47
MohammadAG	sec	16:47
BluesLee	MohammadAG: and then?	16:47
BluesLee	MohammadAG: okay ... this directory seems to contain only makefiles, i thought it would contain at least some *.h	16:48
MohammadAG	make -C /usr/src/kernel-power-headers M="`pwd`" EXTRAVERSION=.10power46 modules	16:48
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Venemo	~ping	16:48
infobot	~pong	16:48
MohammadAG	it does	16:49
BluesLee	MohammadAG: okay, will try that	16:49
MohammadAG	[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/kernel-power-headers.list \| grep .h \| wc -l	16:49
MohammadAG	7315	16:49
BluesLee	MohammadAG: correct	16:50
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BluesLee	MohammadAG: "nothing" happens --> MODPOST 0 modules	16:51
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MohammadAG	hmm	16:51
BluesLee	i did a make clean before	16:51
MohammadAG	paste the Makefile in the directory you're running that command in	16:51
BluesLee	i am running it in /usr/src/kernel-power-2.6.28	16:51
frals	whats the url to the fancy fremantle developer documentation that was created some time ago?	16:52
frals	hosted by nokia iirc	16:52
MohammadAG	umm, no, you need to run it in the directory of the module kernel sources you want to compile	16:52
MohammadAG	frals, the hildon guide?	16:53
frals	there was this whole dedicated page for all kinds of API references	16:53
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frals	or did i dream that?	16:53
MohammadAG	http://maemoide.nokia.com/fremantle/index.jsp?topic=/org.maemo.mica.maemosdk.help.guide.hildonwidgetui/html/node5.html	16:53
MohammadAG	that?	16:53
frals	yepp, thanks :)	16:53
MohammadAG	<3 awesome bar	16:54
BluesLee	MohammadAG: okay, for instance /usr/src/kernel-power-2.6.28/drivers/media/dvb/dvb-usb	16:54
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MohammadAG	no mate	16:54
MohammadAG	those are headers	16:54
MohammadAG	you compile against headers, you don't compile them	16:54
BluesLee	MohammadAG: there are also the sources *.c files ?!	16:55
MohammadAG	sources are .c files	16:55
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* MohammadAG ponders getting an iPod/Android device		16:56
MohammadAG	or 2 more batteries for the N900	16:57
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BluesLee	MohammadAG: http://pastebin.ca/2040342	16:58
MohammadAG	you installed kernel-power-source?	16:59
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BluesLee	MohammadAG: kernel-power-2.6.28 (kernel-power-source package) contains both .h and the sources .c while kernel-power-headers (package kernel-power-headers) contains only makefiles and configs?	17:00
MohammadAG	BluesLee, yes, it contains headers too	17:01
BluesLee	MohammadAG: hmm, there are no headers for dvb in kernel-power-headers/drivers/media/dvb/dvb-usb/	17:03
BluesLee	MohammadAG: i think there is something wrong here	17:03
MohammadAG	umm, no?	17:03
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BluesLee	MohammadAG: just a Kconfig and a Makefile	17:04
MohammadAG	kernel-power isn't compiled with dvb-usb by default	17:04
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MohammadAG	why would headers exist	17:04
BluesLee	MohammadAG: thats right	17:04
MohammadAG	anyways	17:04
MohammadAG	edit the .config	17:04
MohammadAG	set the things you want to M	17:04
MohammadAG	compile with the correct extraversion	17:05
MohammadAG	it might be easier for you	17:05
BluesLee	MohammadAG: okay, thanks, i will try it	17:05
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MohammadAG	just don't edit the core stuff	17:05
MohammadAG	i.e change a Y to N, or an N to Y	17:05
MohammadAG	otherwise you need to flash a kernel	17:06
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minus273	hi all	17:09
minus273	always me	17:09
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lardman	mmm, Dell Streak 7 looks quite cool	17:25
lardman	I seem to remember reading somewhere that they were planning/considering Meego support for the streaks?	17:26
khertan	someone use twitpics here	17:26
khertan	?	17:26
BluesLee	MohammadAG: changing the extraversion does not help. but you are right, i am doing something wrong as i get 211 new compiled modules i should only compile the necessary ones	17:27
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lardman	hmm, even more impressive, having forgotten that I setup Thunderbird to sync with Google, I can even see my appointments on my PC	17:52
lardman	very nifty, I wonder why I put up with no syncing for so long	17:52
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xDaReaperx	Hello	17:53
xDaReaperx	where do i verify my IMEI number ?	17:53
lardman	to download a FIASCO image?	17:53
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lardman	xDaReaperx: that question was for you btw	17:54
xDaReaperx	Yes	17:54
lardman	~flashing	17:55
infobot	[flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	17:55
lardman	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	17:55
xDaReaperx	i want to verify the Version of my maemo	17:55
xDaReaperx	if it is middle east or what	17:55
xDaReaperx	by typing imei number	17:55
lardman	oh, no clue about that, I can't see how it would help	17:55
Shurik___	Hey guys, what device are ya all coding to? n900?	17:56
lardman	there's not afaik a central registry of flashed version vs IMEI as you can flash whatever you want to the device	17:56
MohammadAG	dpkg -l mp-fremantle*	17:56
lardman	Shurik___: yes N900	17:56
xDaReaperx	Well okay	17:56
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MohammadAG	002 is US, 003 is.. something else	17:56
lardman	xDaReaperx: see MohammadAG's sugestion	17:56
xDaReaperx	003	17:57
xDaReaperx	middle east i guess	17:57
MohammadAG	there's 002, 003, 203 and 004	17:57
lardman	what differences are there anyway?	17:57
MohammadAG	003 MENA, 203 UK	17:57
xDaReaperx	well the police called me	17:57
* lardman went to grab his N900 to check, then realised it's non-functional		17:57
MohammadAG	and MR0's global	17:57
xDaReaperx	they said my number was traced	17:57
xDaReaperx	and my phone was stolen	17:57
BluesLee	xDaReaperx: hehe	17:57
nidO	203 and 205 are both uk variants	17:57
MohammadAG	lardman, emergency numbers or something	17:57
xDaReaperx	i told them i bought my phone from Middle east	17:58
xDaReaperx	so it's no way stolen	17:58
xDaReaperx	bought it from Nokia	17:58
lardman	MohammadAG: ah ok	17:58
xDaReaperx	that is why i need to verify my IMEI number	17:58
MohammadAG	205 is vodafone afaik	17:58
xDaReaperx	i'm not using vodafone	17:58
MohammadAG	xDaReaperx, firmware can be changed	17:58
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MohammadAG	that wasn't at you	17:58
lardman	well you IMEI is written inside behind the battery and you can see if in Settings > Device Info	17:58
MohammadAG	it was @ nidO	17:58
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nidO	MohammadAG: yes, 205 is vodafone in the uk	17:59
MohammadAG	or *#06#	17:59
MohammadAG	for the Symbian way	17:59
* lardman really can't type this afternoon		17:59
lardman	MohammadAG: do those commands now work?	17:59
MohammadAG	lardman, since 1.1 afaik	17:59
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lardman	I've never had to use them	17:59
MohammadAG	*#0000# too	17:59
MohammadAG	that's it	17:59
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xDaReaperx	okay	18:00
xDaReaperx	i dunno if someone is faking as polic	18:00
xDaReaperx	police *	18:00
xDaReaperx	yep its from middle east version	18:00
lardman	phone the real police and ask	18:00
MohammadAG	hey, I faked an operator and sent my friend to claim his prize once	18:00
ShadowJK	I wouldn't give out my imei	18:00
lardman	ask them who your provider is as they would have to get the IMEI from them I guess	18:01
xDaReaperx	I didn't give my IMEI to him	18:01
xDaReaperx	i asked him his name	18:01
xDaReaperx	and branch where he worked	18:01
xDaReaperx	he never told which model of phone was stolen	18:01
xDaReaperx	so i think maybe they are mistaken or faking	18:01
MohammadAG	you could always check /dev/mtd1 to see what firmwares were flashed on it	18:04
xDaReaperx	just type that in xterm ?	18:05
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xDaReaperx	uhm permission denied even with root	18:05
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MohammadAG	strings /dev/mtd1	18:06
ShadowJK	with \|less probably	18:06
MohammadAG	yeah	18:06
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BluesLee	MohammadAG: are you really 17?	18:07
xDaReaperx	it shows first one as : RX-51_2009SE_2.2009.48-5_ENOS_MR0	18:07
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MohammadAG	yeah lol :p	18:08
MohammadAG	that explains it	18:08
lardman	only 17! off with his head!	18:08
MohammadAG	it was a global device, flashed to middle east	18:08
xDaReaperx	uhm yeah	18:08
BluesLee	MohammadAG: honestly, you have my respect	18:08
xDaReaperx	but dosen't nokia do tha tnormally ?	18:08
xDaReaperx	usually while bringing it to the middle east ... it's flashd	18:08
Venemo	~ping	18:08
infobot	~pong	18:08
MohammadAG	xDaReaperx, no, don't recall anything like that	18:09
MohammadAG	middle eastern devices are middle eastern	18:09
MohammadAG	BluesLee, check january logs when I joined, I was kind of a noob :P	18:09
xDaReaperx	it shows sw-release-ver : RX-51_2009SE_2.2009.48-5_ENOS_MR0	18:09
MohammadAG	I owe a lot to those who helped me	18:09
rm_work	lol i remember before i flashed to 1.1 my TMobile operator kept asking me to type those codes in and I was like "erm... it doesn't work. it's not that kind of phone. yes i'm typing it. no, it isn't doing anything. kthx."	18:10
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MohammadAG	what's ENOS	18:10
xDaReaperx	i dunno	18:10
xDaReaperx	it's just given it that way	18:10
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xDaReaperx	maybe old version of middle east ?	18:11
MohammadAG	no, MR0 is global	18:11
BluesLee	MohammadAG: yeah, nevertheless your are very productive and thats good for the community ...	18:12
lardman	is that a valid week number?	18:12
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xDaReaperx	Btw the police was saying someone elses name someone called : Jabber	18:13
xDaReaperx	no one like so we know	18:13
MohammadAG	xDaReaperx,	18:13
xDaReaperx	yeah ?	18:13
MohammadAG	are all other RX* strings MR0?	18:13
MohammadAG	no 003 strings?	18:13
xDaReaperx	no	18:13
xDaReaperx	only 1st one	18:13
xDaReaperx	all the rest are 003	18:14
BluesLee	MohammadAG: stupid question, whats the diff between "apt-get source kernel-power" and "apt-get install kernel-power-source"?	18:14
xDaReaperx	and one is .MENA+EU	18:14
MohammadAG	k	18:14
MohammadAG	I just checked a friend's device	18:14
lardman	BluesLee: one gets the source, one the binary	18:14
MohammadAG	it's all MR0	18:14
xDaReaperx	oh	18:14
MohammadAG	and he has the ENOS thing	18:14
MohammadAG	no lardman	18:14
MohammadAG	BluesLee, kernel-power-source has patches preapplied	18:14
xDaReaperx	so ... it's original ?	18:15
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xDaReaperx	cause i bought it from Nokia it self	18:15
lardman	doh, missed the -source on the end	18:15
xDaReaperx	and have international warranty	18:15
MohammadAG	kernel-power's source is how it's compiled	18:15
mgedmin	BluesLee, you can build-depend on kernel-power-source, but you cannot build-depend on a source package of kernel-power	18:15
MohammadAG	originally	18:15
MohammadAG	by t-tan	18:15
MohammadAG	i.e you need to apply patches with quilt	18:15
mgedmin	that's usually why there are binary packages containing sources	18:15
BluesLee	MohammadAG: which one shouldi get to run the dvb stuff?	18:15
MohammadAG	both work fine for that	18:16
BluesLee	okay	18:16
MohammadAG	xDaReaperx, there's no doubt it's original, but the firmware seems changed from MR0 to 003	18:16
rm_work	lardman: what happened to your n900 to make it non-functional? :(	18:16
xDaReaperx	Uhm yeah	18:16
lardman	rm_work: touchscreen has failed, pretty hard to use now everything is finger friendly (kb unfriendly)	18:17
xDaReaperx	probably Nokia over here in middle east must have done it ... no idea though	18:17
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xDaReaperx	they do that for most Nokia phones	18:17
rm_work	lardman: :( can't you buy a new touchscreen? saw some site that sold all the components individually	18:17
MohammadAG	no, they don't	18:17
MohammadAG	I'm from the middle east too you know	18:18
rm_work	lardman: or i guess it could also be the controller or something else random <_<	18:18
lardman	rm_work: it's a loan device, so I'll wait to hear from Nokia	18:18
rm_work	lardman: ah, yeah	18:18
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xDaReaperx	Oh .. hmm	18:18
xDaReaperx	So i wonder why Nokia would ever do that	18:18
lardman	is it an early batch phone, flashed to global before the Middle-Eastern image became available?	18:19
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xDaReaperx	yeah i think it is	18:19
xDaReaperx	maybe	18:19
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xDaReaperx	wasn't N900 out in 2009 ?	18:19
MohammadAG	sounds a bit fishy	18:20
MohammadAG	yes, november 2009	18:20
MohammadAG	devices available since september for devs afaik	18:20
rm_work	there were a lot of them in the wild by, what was it, October 2009?	18:20
rm_work	ah yeah sept	18:20
lardman	perhaps as they were in short supply the returned loan devices were re-packaged and sold again? ;)	18:21
MohammadAG	lol	18:21
GAN900	rm_work, my buddy just replaced his panel.	18:22
rm_work	GAN900: yeah. mine has a dead pixel :( but not worth replacing just for that	18:22
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rm_work	also it is technically a loaner device, not sure if they ever want it back tho... >_>	18:22
lardman	you get the entire LCD+touch panel as one unit I guess?	18:23
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GAN900	lardman, not sure.	18:24
xDaReaperx	hmm dunno really should be legal afaik	18:24
xDaReaperx	if not i go with it to where i bought it from	18:25
xDaReaperx	and ask	18:25
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lardman	xDaReaperx: the other possibility is that the person who reported the IMEI stolen lied or got it wrong	18:25
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xDaReaperx	yes i suspect he got it wrong	18:25
xDaReaperx	since he was mentioning some other persons name	18:25
xDaReaperx	he never told which phone was stolen , which IMEI number , his name	18:26
xDaReaperx	where he worked	18:26
xDaReaperx	i mean which branch	18:26
lardman	well just phone the police and ask to speak to this person, he should at least have a record of the phone type	18:26
lardman	assuming he exists	18:26
xDaReaperx	okay i've told my uncle to do that	18:28
xDaReaperx	he's probably already phoned them	18:28
chem\|st	what is the nolo /dev?	18:28
xDaReaperx	btw i'm living in India not middle east any more	18:28
xDaReaperx	i dunno how things can get stolen so far away lol	18:28
MohammadAG	chem\|st, cat /proc/mtd and you'll see	18:29
MohammadAG	it's /dev/mtd0	18:29
MohammadAG	iirc	18:29
chem\|st	guessed from other way but thanks!	18:30
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ieatlint	xDaReaperx: simple advice when dealing with a situation like that: ask for a phone number that you can call them back at	18:31
ieatlint	it's like with payment information, never give anything personal unless you initiated the call	18:32
lardman	or rather ask for their name and location and look it up in the phonebook/interweb	18:33
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ieatlint	yeah, good to do, but keep in mind if you can look up a name and location, so can anyone else... still best to verify the source	18:34
ieatlint	but in my experience, the police will not take offence to someone questioning their validity over the phone, so long as you do so calmly and professionally	18:34
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xDaReaperx	Well okay ... i usually get nervous in such situation ... never talked to a police before lol	18:36
xDaReaperx	i'll try to verify as much info about who calls next time ... thanks	18:36
ieatlint	you should learn, it's a good skill to have :P	18:37
ieatlint	and i don't mean the advice that talks about how to be a dick to the police... speaking politely to them will put you ahead 90% of the time	18:38
xDaReaperx	Oh okay ... very well said :)	18:38
xDaReaperx	i did my mom do most of the talking	18:39
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hyper_noob_xl	yo	19:07
hyper_noob_xl	was the problem with wifi sthe battery power resolved in the pr1.3?	19:08
hyper_noob_xl	^sapping	19:08
hyper_noob_xl	?	19:10
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hyper_noob_xl	was the problem with wifi sthe battery power resolved in the pr1.3?	19:13
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hyper_noob_xl	^sapping	19:13
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SpeedEvil	some APs do no tproperly interoperate with the n900, causing extra power consumption	19:14
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hyper_noob_xl	so there is still a need for unloading the wifi modules to save power?	19:15
lardman	disconnect	19:16
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SpeedEvil	yeah - turn off wifi, and if you want t o go to the extreem, don't have it auto-search for wifi	19:18
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JakDaRippa	will having my n900 attached via usb to my pc constantly (every night and sometimes all day) effect the battery?	19:19
alterego	JakDaRippa: yes, it should charge it.	19:19
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JakDaRippa	but once it's charged?	19:19
JakDaRippa	i can	19:19
JakDaRippa	i can't find anything online about it	19:19
lardman	charge it every night	19:19
lardman	or every other if you don't use it too much	19:20
lardman	or even every 5 days if you really don't connect to anything	19:20
rm_work	i was wondering that myself (and about my laptop battery as well)... if i leave them plugged in constantly, does it ruin the battery? I can't remember what type of battery it is that has that problem	19:21
alterego	rm_work: none if the laptop is built right ..	19:21
hyper_noob_xl	I dont have auto search for on. I thought there was a bug that made the wifi search in the background even when it was disconnected hence the unloading wifi modules to stop it from draining power. Has this been fixed in pr1.3?	19:21
lardman	no, li-ion like to be kept reasonably well charged don;t they?	19:21
alterego	Once a laptop is fully charged, the power should come only from the charger and thw battery should be left along until you disconect it from the mains.	19:22
hyper_noob_xl	no	19:22
SpeedEvil	lardman: no	19:22
lardman	oh	19:22
SpeedEvil	lardman: store at 40% charge.	19:22
hyper_noob_xl	li-ion like to be around 60%	19:22
lardman	fair enough	19:22
SpeedEvil	lardman: Your laptop battery oly lasts a year, at full capacity, as it's charged all the time.	19:22
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SpeedEvil	lardman: If you charge it to 80%, it can last several years	19:22
hyper_noob_xl	there is a wiki entry on li-ion batterys	19:22
lardman	SpeedEvil: noted	19:22
hyper_noob_xl	not true speedevil	19:23
SpeedEvil	lardman: batteryuniversity.com has reasonable stuff	19:23
SpeedEvil	Also - they hate high temps.	19:23
hyper_noob_xl	thats true	19:23
hyper_noob_xl	and deep discharge	19:23
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SpeedEvil	high temp at high states of charge kill them fast	19:23
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rm_work	so leaving my laptop plugged in 24/7 is, in fact, totally killing it? :P	19:24
hyper_noob_xl	yes	19:25
alterego	Not if it's built right ..	19:25
hyper_noob_xl	if you leave it plugged in 24/7, take the battery out	19:25
rm_work	k well, not sure what I can do about it	19:25
rm_work	ah, that	19:25
rm_work	i suppose that would work :P	19:25
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hyper_noob_xl	it does, but it is a sucky solution	19:25
khertan	And some laptop have settings in bios to charge only to 80%	19:25
jacekowski	BS	19:26
hyper_noob_xl	li-ions only really last a year at best with normal use, longer if you are well anal	19:26
khertan	this is the case of my netbook Samsung n130	19:26
jacekowski	it's not killing battery	19:26
jacekowski	laptops and batteries have specialised charging circuits	19:26
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hyper_noob_xl	-_-	19:26
jacekowski	to prevent that	19:26
hyper_noob_xl	goto batteryuniversity, go learn about li-ion chemistry	19:26
jacekowski	and bettery is just connected there with small current flowing trough it	19:26
khertan	someone use twitpics here ?	19:26
jacekowski	hyper_noob_xl: it's leaving li-ion discharged that's killing it	19:27
jacekowski	not charged	19:27
hyper_noob_xl	what?	19:27
hyper_noob_xl	dude, learn about li-ions first	19:27
jacekowski	dude	19:27
kerio	hahaha	19:27
jacekowski	stop saying bullshit to people	19:27
hyper_noob_xl	-_-	19:27
hyper_noob_xl	what ever	19:27
hyper_noob_xl	dumbass	19:27
alterego	Heh	19:28
khertan	it's funny saying that from a nick hyper_noob_xl :)	19:28
lardman	khertan: well that's good as I have an N140	19:28
alterego	Yeah, never let a lion fully discharge.	19:28
alterego	It's messy.	19:28
khertan	lardman: so look into the bios this is pretty much the same :)	19:29
lardman	yep	19:29
khertan	lthey call it : Battery Life Cycle Extension	19:29
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khertan	in advanced	19:30
khertan	parameters	19:30
khertan	mine is one year old, most of the time connected to the charger	19:30
jacekowski	there are only two things that kill batteries, heat and leaving it discharged for too long	19:31
khertan	didn't notice any battery drop down	19:31
lardman	cool, I'll take a look see	19:31
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jacekowski	effects of anything else are minimal	19:31
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khertan	lardman: and meego run very well on it	19:32
lardman	hmm, looks very much like beer-o'clock to me	19:32
rm_work	http://batteryuniversity.com/_img/content/parttwo-34.gif	19:32
rm_work	hrm	19:32
hyper_noob_xl	so you are saying a li-ion battery can be re-charged to maximal capacity indefinatley?	19:32
lardman	khertan: I've already got WinXP + Ubuntu on there	19:32
lardman	khertan: will need a bigger hdd!	19:32
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rm_work	"High charge levels and elevated temperatures hasten permanent capacity loss. "	19:32
khertan	lardman: ubuntu was freezing on mine	19:32
lardman	wifi is craptastic	19:32
lardman	no idea why, but otherwise all works fine	19:33
jacekowski	hyper_noob_xl: no	19:33
khertan	lardman: freeze with many kernel sata exception	19:33
hyper_noob_xl	then there are at least 3 things that can kill a battery	19:33
khertan	lardman: got no problem on debian lenny	19:33
lardman	hmm, well Maverick works fine for me	19:33
jacekowski	hyper_noob_xl: i'm saing that charging/discharging batteries isn't causing significant loss of capacity	19:33
rm_work	"If possible, store the battery in a cool place at about a 40% state-of-charge. Some reserve charge is needed to keep the battery and its protection circuit operational during prolonged storage. Avoid keeping the battery at full charge and high temperature. "	19:33
hyper_noob_xl	a li-ion battery has a limited number of charge/discharge cycles	19:33
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lardman	though I quickly got rid of that stupid netbook desktop interface rubbish	19:33
jacekowski	ehh	19:34
jacekowski	and again somebody quoting batterybullshit website	19:34
jacekowski	read manufacturer datasheets	19:34
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: leaving lithium-ion batteries at 100% state of harge, and 25C - they drop in capacity significantly year by year	19:34
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khertan	lardman: mine come with win7 ... lol	19:34
SpeedEvil	At 80% charge - the capacity depreciation is much, much slower	19:34
rm_work	"A lithium-ion battery provides 300-500 discharge/charge cycles. The battery prefers a partial rather than a full discharge. Frequent full discharges should be avoided when possible."	19:34
rm_work	jacekowski: so you're saying that site is just wrong?	19:34
jacekowski	rm_work: yes	19:35
lardman	khertan: mine did too, was too slow so I chucked in 2Gb and installed XP instead	19:35
jacekowski	rm_work: i believe manufacturer datasheets	19:35
jacekowski	rm_work: not some site selecting random parts from random datasheets	19:35
khertan	lardman: i wipe everything to put debian lenny with xfce run very well	19:35
alterego	jacekowski: and lets not forget chinese whispers.	19:35
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: The manufacturer datasheets do not mention capacity loss at all typically.	19:35
hyper_noob_xl	when you keep it plugged in it charges to 100% then stops charging. The battery then discharges due to internal resistance and powering the current control circuit. when the battery is sufficiently discharged from this (to maybe 90%) it re-charges back to 100%. Thus, if you leave dit plugged in youare charging/discharging constantly.	19:35
jacekowski	some do	19:35
alterego	There are so many common misconceptions in regards to batteries in general	19:36
jacekowski	hyper_noob_xl: nope	19:36
jacekowski	hyper_noob_xl: it never stops charging it	19:36
lardman	khertan: I'll have to see if I can nick my wife's betbook to try Meego, but the installer needs to be able to resize her NTFS partition otherwise it's no-go	19:36
hyper_noob_xl	wtf?	19:36
hyper_noob_xl	are you retarded?	19:36
jacekowski	hyper_noob_xl: it has very small current flowing trough it	19:36
lardman	s/betbook/netbook	19:36
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: however - in this ase, you're wrong, I could dig up the links to papers I've got, but I really can't be arsed. Batteryuniversity.com is actually written by people that make battery analysers.	19:36
SpeedEvil	And make money at it.	19:36
hyper_noob_xl	ignore jacekowski	19:36
hyper_noob_xl	mongloid dumbass	19:36
alterego	hyper_noob_xl: no need to be rude.	19:37
hyper_noob_xl	sorry	19:37
hyper_noob_xl	but he is clearly trolling	19:37
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alterego	hyper_noob_xl: you're both arguing, that's not trolling, that's debate.	19:37
hyper_noob_xl	he is ignored now and I am re-entering my happy place :)	19:37
lardman	no, I think he actually disagrees	19:37
hyper_noob_xl	discussing whether black is white is not debate	19:37
alterego	hyper_noob_xl: sure it is.	19:38
alterego	hyper_noob_xl: if you're both blind :P	19:38
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toresbe	at least from what I'm reading, using the adjective "mongoloid" immediately makes me slightly biased against you	19:39
alterego	Heh	19:39
jacekowski	hyper_noob_xl: http://www.mpoweruk.com/performance.htm	19:39
alterego	Batteries, always a hot topic.	19:39
jacekowski	hyper_noob_xl: and that http://www.mpoweruk.com/life.htm	19:39
alterego	Especially if you own an Apple	19:39
toresbe	also, you're wrong	19:39
jacekowski	and	19:40
jacekowski	http://www.mpoweruk.com/bms.htm	19:40
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lardman	aaaargh, I hate on-screen keyboards	19:41
alterego	lardman: me too.	19:41
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lardman	I bet you're not forced to use a QVGA touchscreen-only phone though :p	19:42
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hyper_noob_xl	im wrong?	19:43
hyper_noob_xl	about batterys or debate?	19:43
hyper_noob_xl	^batteries	19:43
hyper_noob_xl	6?	19:43
hyper_noob_xl	^?	19:43
* lardman heads home, catch you guys over the weekend		19:44
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Shapeshifter	does someone know how I can get the currently playing song and do next/previous from the cli for the builtin player?	19:44
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alterego	lardman\|gone: no, what phone? :)	19:44
mgedmin	Shapeshifter, there are some dbus commands, I think I once found a wiki page describing them	19:45
Shapeshifter	mgedmin: mhh thanks	19:45
mgedmin	either that or a forum post	19:45
mgedmin	try google?	19:45
mgedmin	I've ~/bin/pause-music on my n900	19:46
Shapeshifter	being on 2G atm, I like to cheat by asking here first ;)	19:46
mgedmin	it does dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.osso_media_server /com/nokia/osso_media_server com.nokia.osso_media_server.music.pause	19:46
Shapeshifter	mgedmin: oh thanks	19:46
* mgedmin thinks DBus designers drank too much Java kool aid		19:46
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hyper_noob_xl	SHAPESHIFTER, google for 'maemo scripts wiki' also 'maemo phone-control'	19:49
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khertan	so i'm not the only one to found this thing horrible	19:49
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, I merged all (I think) commands in that page in one script, under the package phone-control	19:50
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: awesome, thanks	19:51
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, to get the currently playing song you'd need some C/C++ app	19:51
MohammadAG	python should also work, see alterego's media-im-status-updater	19:52
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Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: nifty script	19:53
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MohammadAG	:)	19:54
* MohammadAG made it to see the look on nosy people's faces		19:55
MohammadAG	I could lock my N900 from my laptop when someone picks up my phone	19:55
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Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: typo in -h "e.g. --mp-pause laucnh" ;)	19:56
LjL	hey i don't suppose there is a way i could emulate an N810 with Maemo to see what it's like?	19:56
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, heh	19:57
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luke-jr	LjL: no, why?	19:59
luke-jr	LjL: Maemo doesn't even support N810 anymore	19:59
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Mr_Rixa	Hello \o :)	20:00
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hyper_noob_xl	MohhamedG!!!	20:01
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hyper_noob_xl	OMG dude	20:01
hyper_noob_xl	I love your shit	20:01
hyper_noob_xl	phone-control was fukin' balla	20:01
LjL	luke-jr: because i want to buy one	20:01
hyper_noob_xl	I mean, thank you for your kind contributions good sir. They have enhanced my n900 immensly.	20:02
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luke-jr	LjL: well, Maemo doesn't support it anymore, so you'll have to find an OS that does	20:02
luke-jr	LjL: AFAIK only Gentoo	20:02
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LjL	luke-jr: eh, can't i just use the latest version of maemo that supports it?	20:04
LjL	s/latest/last/	20:04
infobot	LjL meant: luke-jr: eh, can't i just use the last version of maemo that supports it?	20:04
MohammadAG	hyper_noob_xl, thanks :D	20:04
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Mr_Rixa	I have a problem... I installed fMMS and that made a new "internet connection" (mms) and n900 tries to use that as normal packet data connection instead of normal "internet" setting..	20:04
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luke-jr	LjL: …no	20:04
luke-jr	LjL: software is like cars, it requires maintenance	20:06
LjL	why not? do people who own an N810 suddenly find it stop working? O.o	20:06
luke-jr	if it hasn't been maintained, you shouldn't use it	20:07
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luke-jr	there are dangers, etc	20:07
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lcuk	sigh	20:07
LjL	will it explode?	20:07
DocScrutinizer	YAWN only bits I've seen rotting are on my floppies and CDRs	20:07
luke-jr	LjL: unlikely	20:08
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luke-jr	LjL: but it could	20:08
LjL	could it explode with maintained software?	20:08
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DocScrutinizer	I could explode in a second :-P	20:08
lcuk	luke-jr, adding new features and updating to more polished frameworks is one thing, but computers are tools and if the software works for purpose then it does not suddenly become dangerous with age.	20:08
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: thanks	20:09
* DocScrutinizer pets his N810		20:09
lcuk	i have a casio calculator that I got at school age	20:09
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khertan	and i ll add that my n810 is still a device i use for ssh session, and some python test	20:10
khertan	and like cuk i still have and use my hp 48sx (really old now)	20:10
DocScrutinizer	yeah, the sinus calculation algo probably is rotten to oblivion by now :-p	20:10
DocScrutinizer	- in that casio calculator	20:10
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LjL	hp48 is complicated	20:10
lcuk	its no longer sinus - it flatlined.	20:11
khertan	LjL: less than an iphone	20:11
khertan	it s a calculatrice	20:11
* DocScrutinizer sobs for his incinerated HP41CV		20:12
hyper_noob_xl	did anyone compile the lesswatrs hp49g pwns all u noobz	20:12
khertan	Whouhou ! Chromium win versus FireFox : ... 24Gb of ram used !	20:12
khertan	record !	20:12
DocScrutinizer	WTF?	20:13
khertan	DocScrutinizer: there is a page on the intranet of my company which make firefox eating 8Gb of ram and crash ... but chromium eat all what it can and crash at 24Gb	20:14
DocScrutinizer	I never touched a box that had even swap of that size	20:14
khertan	12Gb more and i ll eat the max size of the swap :)	20:14
khertan	DocScrutinizer: i use a swap which have the same size as the main memory	20:15
khertan	DocScrutinizer: 32Gb of Ram :)	20:15
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DocScrutinizer	what a zoo of insanity: insane ulimits, insane system config (wtf such a big swap?!), insane browser design and insane webpage	20:15
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khertan	DocScrutinizer: why 32Gb of swap, because 32Gb of ram ...	20:17
khertan	DocScrutinizer: the webpage is insane ... .true :)	20:17
DocScrutinizer	khertan: swap is from a time where RAM was a percious resource. There's absolutely ZERO use in swap when you have an abundance of RAM	20:17
luke-jr	LjL: much less likely	20:17
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luke-jr	lcuk: you assume a non-hostile world	20:17
khertan	DocScrutinizer: except for hibernate	20:18
DocScrutinizer	lol!!	20:18
khertan	else zero use... true	20:18
khertan	:)	20:18
DocScrutinizer	it will take HOURS to hibernate and resume a machine that used up 32GB of RAM	20:18
LjL	luke-jr: oh right, why would i assume a non-hostile world on a old device with no 3G i'd use behind a router for reading books	20:18
khertan	DocScrutinizer: 30s	20:19
LjL	that was foolish of me	20:19
* LjL rolls eyes		20:19
DocScrutinizer	wait WHAT? you have HDD with 1GB/s bandwidth?	20:19
khertan	did i said swap is on an ssd :)	20:19
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khertan	insane ... yes i know	20:19
DocScrutinizer	hmm, ok	20:20
* DocScrutinizer heads out for brinner finally		20:20
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: what abundance of RAM?	20:20
lcuk	luke-jr, do you have a single piece of verifiable information or are you just smoking crack?	20:21
luke-jr	RAM is still the weakest link in PCs	20:21
* luke-jr feels like making a N810 BME exploder worm just to prove lcuk wrong		20:21
* DocScrutinizer hands luke-jr his beta tested prototype X-P		20:22
lcuk	sigh, cyas later folks	20:23
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luke-jr	LjL: real world example: Maemo 4 still doesn't have XMPP support that is compatible with present-day XMPP servers	20:23
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DocScrutinizer	cya lcuk, guys and gals	20:23
luke-jr	thanks to a bug Nokia never fixed	20:23
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LjL	no third party xmpp clients?	20:24
luke-jr	…	20:24
luke-jr	doubt it	20:24
LjL	that's indeed the sort of thing i'd have liked to find out with the help of an emulator	20:24
luke-jr	if Maemo did one thing right, it was lack of communication clients	20:24
luke-jr	everything is integrated there	20:25
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luke-jr	into the OS	20:25
DocScrutinizer	cough	20:25
luke-jr	even Skype is integrated, no client	20:25
DocScrutinizer	wooow skype X-P	20:26
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LjL	skype :(	20:26
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* luke-jr wonders if Maemo 4 had Skype suppor		20:26
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DocScrutinizer-8	it has SIP support just fine	20:27
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DocScrutinizer-8	who needs skype?	20:27
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer-8: true	20:28
DocScrutinizer-8	xchat working like a charm, as you can see	20:28
DocScrutinizer-8	cya peeps	20:28
* luke-jr coughs		20:28
maybeHere	http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-01/07/russians-penetrate-lake-vostok we're all going to die!	20:29
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edenite	MOHAMMEDAG	20:36
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hyper_noob_XXL	MOHAMMEDAG	20:37
hyper_noob_XXL	MOHAMMEDAG	20:37
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alterego	Is it just me, or do other people get annoyed that mapping apps don't remember their destination when you quit/restart them?	20:44
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alterego	(Because I've added persistance to columbus) ^.^	20:44
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piggz	ive gathered most of the kernel oops from my n900 crashes from the last 3 weeks or so....printed its 34pages of 6pt text...will it be any use to the engineer i take it to (at the very least i want to emphasise its a hardware issue)	21:00
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piggz	s/likely a hw issue	21:01
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johnsq	Hi	21:09
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mikki-kun	hm, how can i tell whether i have an express card slot or an cardbus slot?	21:17
psycho_oreos	mikki-kun, from googling for pictures	21:17
rm_work	what device is it?	21:17
mikki-kun	carbus and expresscard54 have the same width :)	21:18
mikki-kun	rm_work: dell latitude d620	21:19
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mikki-kun	first time in my life i would ever use that slot	21:19
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psycho_oreos	http://media.obsessable.com/media/2009/01/02/expresscards-compared.jpg <--- how hard was that?	21:20
mikki-kun	lspci tells me somethign about cardbus, but a website tells me expresscard...	21:20
mikki-kun	so now i am confused by that output...	21:20
psycho_oreos	lspci cannot be wrong	21:20
psycho_oreos	not for that instance anyway	21:20
mikki-kun	03:01.0 CardBus bridge: O2 Micro, Inc. OZ601/6912/711E0 CardBus/SmartCardBus Controller (rev 40) <--- tells me lspci	21:21
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mikki-kun	so it means i have to buy a cardbus card?	21:21
mikki-kun	or would also an express card work with that slot?	21:22
psycho_oreos	cardbus and express cards are not cross compatible without an adapter	21:22
psycho_oreos	and smartcard != express card	21:22
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mikki-kun	ehhh, smartcard? where does that fit into the picture? :)	21:23
mikki-kun	totally confused now	21:23
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mikki-kun	psycho_oreos: this page here tells me express-cards should work, but can i take it for granted? http://www.mobilewhack.com/reviews/dell_latitude_d620_laptop.html	21:24
psycho_oreos	your lspci output says the device onboard is either a cardbus or smartcardbus controller or both. If you google for pictures you would easily see that smartcards aren't the same as pcmcia cards	21:25
psycho_oreos	nor are smartcards the same as express cards	21:25
psycho_oreos	mikki-kun, have you bothered to read your laptop's manual? or even service manual from dell website?	21:25
psycho_oreos	its called process elimination	21:25
DocScrutinizer-8	or wikipedia	21:25
mikki-kun	psycho_oreos: the manual is in thailand, i am in switzerland :) you know a way i could read it? :)	21:26
psycho_oreos	mikki-kun, I did say service manual from dell website no?	21:26
DocScrutinizer-8	or wikipedia	21:27
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psycho_oreos	for some reason I don't think this person would be likely be inclined to read from wikipedia, he/she seems like to trust some fancy site that says this instead of that	21:28
mikki-kun	psycho_oreos: who says wikipedia is right	21:29
mikki-kun	in the field of science i've seen it fail pretty hard for many articles	21:29
DocScrutinizer-8	meh	21:29
psycho_oreos	mikki-kun, if wikipedia isn't right then who is stopping you from doubting it and comparing the information with other sources?	21:29
psycho_oreos	or frankly why wouldn	21:30
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psycho_oreos	why wouldn't the pages be edited so that its reflected in a more correct manner?	21:30
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mikki-kun	hm, which page? the wikipedia one?	21:31
psycho_oreos	yes whichever page you believe wikipedia is wrong for that portion of article. Its a free online encyclopedia anyway	21:32
DocScrutinizer-8	who says your manual is right? who says we are right? who says your eyes are right?	21:33
MrBawb	might as well finish that off with "who says right is right?"	21:34
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psycho_oreos	trust no-one? :)	21:35
DocScrutinizer-8	"I won't bother to read it cause I dunno for sure ig it's right" «- most lame statement I heard for long time	21:35
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rm_work	wow, you guys are really going off on a total tangent :P I usually recommend avoiding the "letmegooglethatforyou.com" way to respond to people, regardless of situation	21:45
MohammadAG	yeah	21:46
rm_work	anyway, i was going to say, my normal method is to read as much as physically possible, tally the opinions, and go with the one that has a higher count (discarding things that reference the same source, if i've already counted it). has served me well so far	21:47
MohammadAG	lmgtfy.com is obviosly better	21:47
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rm_work	that or ask somewhere that people might know the answer (like here) :P	21:47
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ZogG_work	hohoho	21:55
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trumee	anyody knows why that joikuspot bouncer is needed in power kernel?	21:56
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trumee	i have compiled my own custom kernel and was wondering if i need that joikuspot bouncer as well	21:57
trumee	although, i have minor changes from stock kernel, but have a new kernel string.	21:58
SpeedEvil	do you use jokiospot	21:58
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DocScrutinizer-8	seen that lately. cruft	22:01
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trumee	SpeedEvil: want to use it	22:02
trumee	SpeedEvil: because i dont know what i need to patch in my custom kernel to get mobilehotspot going	22:02
DocScrutinizer-8	then you probably want to keep that bouncer :-)	22:03
trumee	SpeedEvil: and i have a copy of joiku which i bought some time back	22:03
trumee	DocScrutinizer-8: why is that bouncer required?	22:03
DocScrutinizer-8	trumee: didn't you say your custom kernel is based on PK?	22:03
ZogG_work	DocScrutinizer-8: what happened to your 51?	22:03
trumee	DocScrutinizer-8: no it is not	22:03
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trumee	DocScrutinizer-8: on the other hand, it is very close to stock	22:04
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lirakis	hey every one	22:05
lirakis	how is it going	22:05
DocScrutinizer51	ZogG_work: whatms wrong with my 51?	22:06
lirakis	still feeling good to be left out in the cold by nokia?	22:06
ZogG_work	it's not the best thing about you but it's better than -8	22:07
DocScrutinizer51	grrr N810 kbd and N900 kbd are not compatible	22:07
ZogG_work	lirakis: i'm trolling, they hating	22:07
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lirakis	yeah	22:08
ZogG_work	MohammadAG: \o/	22:08
lirakis	i mean	22:08
DocScrutinizer	yes???	22:08
ZogG_work	lirakis: if you want to troll, go elsewhere, it's my Territory	22:08
lirakis	as if mameo wasnt rough enough ..... they had to ditch the whole user base who shelled out big bucks for the n900, and then push a totally undeveloped meego	22:09
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ZogG_work	only i can troll here	22:09
lirakis	ZogG_work, i only come in from time to time	22:09
DocScrutinizer	trumee: I got no clue but I guess it's something needed to emulate infrastructure mode on N900 WLAN	22:09
lirakis	just to piss a few off, then i leave	22:09
johnx	lirakis, nah, ZogG is right. no room for two trolls. sorry :\|	22:09
ZogG_work	lirakis: what's the point?	22:09
ZogG_work	to get people and yourslf more upset	22:09
DocScrutinizer	lirakis: I can help you to get task acomplisahed much faster	22:09
SpeedEvil	Does anyone happen to know what the position is on nokia care if yous end you r n900 in for warranty service, and no fault is found?	22:10
lirakis	ZogG_work, every once in a when i just get angry for ever supporting nokia	22:10
ZogG_work	DocScrutinizer51: can u talk to DocScrutinizer, to calm him down?	22:10
lirakis	i just feel i have to vent	22:10
lirakis	its productive from that perspective	22:10
lirakis	SpeedEvil, nokia never cares	22:10
ZogG_work	lirakis: ok, keep it for yourself, me too, but it's not the reason i come here	22:10
DocScrutinizer	not for this chan	22:10
lirakis	SpeedEvil, except to take your money	22:10
DocScrutinizer	maybe for you	22:10
trumee	DocScrutinizer: joikuspot seems to be working fine on my custom kernel, thanks	22:10
DocScrutinizer	also not for your psychatric doctor	22:11
SpeedEvil	lirakis: I'm more asking what the charge might be	22:11
lirakis	ok - see you guys later. enjoy your dying device that has no support from the mfg for future updates, even though its less than a year old	22:11
lirakis	arii jaaks should be fired	22:11
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lirakis	bye bye	22:11
johnx	lirakis, bye. we'll tell you if we have a troll opening. send the resume though, and we'll keep it on file	22:12
ZogG_work	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMltvlqEM54	22:12
SpeedEvil	lirakis: Have you conisdered a martyrdom attack?	22:12
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DocScrutinizer	lirakis: please leave NOW!	22:12
DocScrutinizer	so I don't have to bother to ban you	22:12
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lirakis	oh sorry ...thought i hit part	22:13
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DocScrutinizer	what a moron	22:14
lirakis	sorry ... ha ha... i just realized ari cant even be fired. he realized that maemo and nokia have no future	22:14
lirakis	and he left	22:14
lirakis	for hp	22:15
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer		22:15
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ZogG_work	lirakis [~lirakis@ool-ad022bb1.dyn.optonline.net] has left #maemo ["Ari Jaaks should be fired"]	22:15
ZogG_work	lol	22:15
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b lirakis!@		22:15
ZogG_work	ban him	22:15
ZogG_work	good	22:15
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*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer		22:15
ZogG_work	DocScrutinizer: who is the owner of bot btw?	22:18
DocScrutinizer	which one? infobot?	22:18
chx	what does it mean if the status led is red?	22:19
DocScrutinizer	front cam activated	22:19
DocScrutinizer	usually	22:19
ZogG_work	it blink with low bat sometimes i think too	22:19
DocScrutinizer	with broken bat it blinks, yes	22:19
chx	ah	22:20
chx	i see	22:20
chx	i did yeah -- but how do i switch it off now :)	22:20
chx	i tested a video call with a friend	22:20
DocScrutinizer	it should switch off when cam is deactivated	22:20
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spiritd	how can I start xterm with root and bash loaded?	22:21
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MohammadAG	lol @ bot	22:22
MohammadAG	the N900's over a year old	22:22
DocScrutinizer	dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_led_pattern_deactivate string:PatternWebcamActive	22:22
DocScrutinizer	bot?	22:22
MohammadAG	the troll thingy	22:22
DocScrutinizer	that's not been a bot I think	22:23
MohammadAG	ari jaaski et all	22:23
DocScrutinizer	that's been a troll	22:23
MohammadAG	they both lack a life	22:23
DocScrutinizer	chx: dbus-send been for you	22:23
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johnx	MohammadAG, and yet somehow infobot is both more helpful and friendlier	22:25
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y's alive	22:25
Noobmonk3y	wooooop!	22:25
Noobmonk3y	evvvvvening!	22:25
Noobmonk3y	:)	22:26
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MohammadAG	is it a coincidence the track i'm listening to had "wooo" in it when you said woop?	22:26
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DocScrutinizer	is this >>dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_led_pattern_activate string:PatternError << what you meant by blinking red?	22:26
Noobmonk3y	hahaha	22:26
MohammadAG	what's that even acitvated by	22:27
DocScrutinizer	bme?	22:27
DocScrutinizer	dsme?	22:27
DocScrutinizer	NFC	22:27
MohammadAG	nope	22:27
DocScrutinizer	strings might tell you	22:27
DocScrutinizer	nope what?	22:28
MohammadAG	yeah, already stringed mce and bme	22:28
DocScrutinizer	hmm mce also a candidate	22:28
MohammadAG	not bme, nor mce, nor dsme	22:28
DocScrutinizer	mce though won't probably call its own pattern definitions via dbus :-P	22:29
MohammadAG	lol!	22:29
MohammadAG	/usr/sbin/avahi-daemon:org.freedesktop.Avahi.IsPatternError	22:29
opdf2	hmm trying to update backupmenu, but it says it violates 3rd party	22:30
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DocScrutinizer	multiboot?	22:31
opdf2	i dont use multi	22:31
DocScrutinizer	good boy	22:31
MohammadAG	heh	22:33
spiritd	why its bad?	22:33
DocScrutinizer	maybe it conflicts with its own version1?	22:33
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opdf2	nm i thought it was backmenu	22:35
opdf2	it is bootmenu that won't update	22:35
opdf2	conflicts with backupmenu	22:35
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opdf2	backmenu it dependent on bootmenu, though. I'll try uninstall both then reinstall backupmanu	22:36
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yacc900	Any howto to enable PAN on the N900? (as server)	22:38
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yacc900	the wiki is not really helpful, DUN is not an option as the Archos dislikes my SIM card on DUMN access	22:41
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MrBawb	yacc900: what about wifi instead? http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/	22:42
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yacc900	MrBawb: well bluetooth uses usually less power and the Archos is very touchy about WLANs	22:43
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yacc900	It does not support wlan in adhoc mode	22:44
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johnx	wow...	22:45
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spiritd	you can use airbase-ng	22:46
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yacc900	airbase-ng?	22:47
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yacc900	so does the wlan hotspot on the n900 be adhoc or ap mode?	22:49
MrBawb	adhoc	22:49
MrBawb	last I heard, there was a problem using the n900 as an AP	22:49
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spiritd	yacc if you ll use airbase-ng it can be AP	22:49
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yacc900	not a solution as the Archos does not do adhoc mode	22:50
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yacc900	So why does the n900 no pan?	22:50
johnx	looks like it does, but it's a pain to set it up for internet sharing	22:51
opdf2	worked	22:53
yacc900	johnx well, you need dnsmasq for dhcp and probably the powerkernel for iptables NAT support	22:54
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DocScrutinizer	PAN: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=454840#post454840	22:55
johnx	yacc900, exactly. and unlike the wifi ad-hoc there isn't a nice package to set it all up	22:56
johnx	so I just use mobilehotspot	22:56
yacc900	docscrutinzer: wrong direction, I want the N900 as server	22:57
MrBawb	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58570 < that seems to cove it	22:58
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yacc	johnx, the problem is that I have not found any description of how to set it up at all.	23:07
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yacc	I can manage the dhcp/nat issues on my own, but the last time I did it, I had a binary pand or so around, and this one is missing on the N900	23:08
johnx	yacc, look at the last post from MrBawb. did that answer your question?	23:08
yacc	johnx please repeat, I lost Internet connectivity :(	23:08
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johnx	<MrBawb> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58570 < that seems to cove it	23:09
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yacc	sigh, ok, I think I should now install the power kernel, ...	23:15
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yacc	Wondering, is installing the power kernel one of the operations that can brick a device? wonder	23:18
MrBawb	I've been using the power kernel for months and it works for me (tm)	23:18
Tamyrlin	Something I've wondered is whether it is possible to install software that bricks the device in such a way that it can't be reflashed	23:19
Tamyrlin	(Excluding overclocking the device so that it breaks for that reason)	23:19
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Tamyrlin	That is, how paranoid should one be when for example hacking configuration files	23:21
SpeedEvil	Basically - anything not involving flashing the bootloader is almost risk-free	23:21
SpeedEvil	Or direct writes to /dev/mtd* partitions	23:21
nomis	Mhm, I have just dput a package to fremantle-extras-builder - it built a i386 image although it should be architecture neutral.	23:22
SpeedEvil	screwing up the 'normal' filesystem is a simple reflash	23:22
nomis	what am I missing?	23:22
Tamyrlin	Ok, but it is possible to overwrite the bootloader? ouch	23:22
nomis	(build log is here: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/tvbgone_1.0.0-1/ )	23:24
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Tamyrlin	Hmm, although it seems like it might be possible to recover even from a missing bootloader: https://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing	23:25
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yacc	So is there a way to install software that makes the device not reflashable?	23:31
johnx	yacc, if you really wanted to, you could probably find a way to do some damage by writing some malicious kernel code	23:32
Tamyrlin	Hmm, I remember reading about the flash, that you could probably destroy the LED by turning them on for too long for example	23:32
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johnsq	yacc: edit the kernel remove the flash write routine and flsh it one time	23:34
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Tamyrlin	Heh, just after I bought my N900 I wanted to upgrade it to the newest version. I even found a Windows XP box so that I could use the official Nokia tools to do so. And of course, it failed.	23:36
Tamyrlin	But I could get it working with flasher-3.5 however from a Linux box	23:36
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alterego	Tamyrlin: from the dawn of Maemo the main development and support platform has been Linux.	23:38
alterego	It's only really the N900 that bought proper Nokia support for windows.	23:38
alterego	Which is a refreshing change :)	23:38
Tamyrlin	Aha, didn't know about that detail	23:38
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Tamyrlin	Anyway, for various reasons I bought it slightly used, but I still had a regular warranty on the device. And I thought that if I managed to brick the device completely during the update process it might be easier to use the warranty if I had used a Windows XP based tool to do the updating.	23:40
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yacc	Tamyrlin, ???	23:41
alterego	Unless you have a defective device, or do something really stupid the N900 is quite unbrickable.	23:42
yacc	Tamyrlin, how should that make a difference?	23:42
Tamyrlin	alterego: Yeah, it seems like that, but I didn't know that for sure when I had just bought it :)	23:42
alterego	And I mean _really_ stupid. Making it unbootable is easy though :)	23:42
yacc	alterego, define something stupid?	23:42
alterego	But easy to repair usual.	23:42
alterego	yacc: pulling usb cord out whilst flashing	23:43
MohammadAG	alterego, it is brickable	23:43
Tamyrlin	yacc: Well, lets just say that I go into the store where I bought the device and say "I used the Nokia PC Suite and now the device doesn't work anymore"	23:43
* MohammadAG hands alterego 100kgs of bricks		23:43
alterego	Or flashing random untested crap to bootloader.	23:43
yacc	Tamyrlin, you say just it does not work, ...	23:43
Tamyrlin	yacc: Compared to "I downloaded a flashing tool for Linux which I found on the maemo website"	23:43
alterego	When you don't fully understand what you're doing.	23:43
yacc	Tamyrlin, you think the guy at the shop will even understand what you are saying?	23:43
Tamyrlin	yacc: Not the last alternative at least :)	23:44
Tamyrlin	Or well, actually, you might be surprised	23:44
Tamyrlin	The guy at the store seemed to know quite well what the N900 was	23:44
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alterego	Heh, "Nokia 900" I wouldn't expect that on an official Nokia/Qt blog ..	23:49
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