IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-12-16

DocScrutinizer	I'm not even sure if A2DP is crypted OTA	00:00
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DocScrutinizer	or addressed at a particular peripheral (headphones)	00:00
_trine	I have a set of Nokia Bluetooth Stereo Headset BH-905 and I think they are very good	00:00
lardman	it's not crypted	00:01
DocScrutinizer	afaik everything is crypted on BT OTA	00:01
lardman	unless by hw	00:01
asj_	DocScrutinizer: ah, in bluez 4 anyways, rfcomm and l2cap are just sockets you can open, like tcp, udp. a2dp is over avdtp which is over l2cap. So if you wanted to do all the work yourself it would seem possible. The crypting is done lower down, once paired you don't have to worry about it.	00:01
DocScrutinizer	sure that's done in BT hw	00:01
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_trine	it would be nice if both myself and my wife godd listen at the same time	00:01
jacekowski	i'm pretty sure bt is not encryptec	00:01
jacekowski	because there are bt sniffers that just work	00:01
_trine	godd // could	00:02
jacekowski	and strong encryption would make it complicated	00:02
DocScrutinizer	exactly, the crypting is quite likely done in BT hw, and the pairing is nothing but negotiating a crypto key	00:02
DocScrutinizer	so you can't pair 2 headsets if this isn't implemented in BT chip firmware	00:03
jacekowski	then how bt sniffers work	00:03
DocScrutinizer	I dunno	00:03
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DocScrutinizer	do they?	00:03
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DocScrutinizer	never seen any	00:03
jacekowski	yes, you just switch it on and you can sniff	00:04
DocScrutinizer	if they listen to the key negotiation then it's simple	00:04
jacekowski	not really	00:04
jacekowski	if you can sniff openssh connection from start that doesn't mean you can decrypt it	00:05
lardman	http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/32519-23-secure-bluetooth-encryption	00:05
DocScrutinizer	if you tell a sniffer the 4 digit pin shared secret, then it's just that simple	00:05
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asj_	well, and if it's 4 digits what's the brute force time to try 1000 combinations?	00:06
jacekowski	1ms	00:07
asj_	do you have anything to back that up?	00:07
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jacekowski	well, modern cpu can do couple millions md5 hashes per second	00:09
jacekowski	and cheap bluetooth in phone can connect in miliseconds	00:10
asj_	the connect time per spec is ~6seconds	00:11
asj_	only bluetooth LE is ms range	00:11
DocScrutinizer	lardman: thanks :-)	00:12
nomis	I don't get how all this throwing around with numbers is supposed to help with recovering a session key. Even millions of md5 hashes won't help there.	00:12
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lardman	DocScrutinizer: not sure that's the best ref ever mind you	00:13
DocScrutinizer	lardman: nevertheless it's good enough to support my thoughts	00:13
ds3	what pin? BT doesn't use a pin	00:13
lardman	hmm must be getting late, am having troubles working out how to efficiently take a list of integers and make them contigous but still ordered	00:13
derf	What the gekk does it mean for integers to be contiguous?	00:14
lardman	well 1 and 200 are integers	00:14
DocScrutinizer	and now - as it seems A2DP is NOT sent in plain text either (freq hopping always taking place) - it's impossible to pair multiple devices if the BT firmware doesn't explicitly support that	00:14
derf	lardman: Okay, I don't have to revoke your mathematics credentials so far.	00:15
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lardman	but they don't have a spacing of 1	00:15
lardman	so I'd like to reduce that list to 1,2	00:16
lardman	which is how I was defining contiguous integers	00:16
lardman	in my odd engineeringy way ;)	00:16
derf	I thought perhaps you meant contiguous in RAM.	00:16
lardman	no, just in the ether	00:16
DocScrutinizer	depending on how fast the BT chip can switch status&config, you might mux 2 p2p A2DP sessions	00:17
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derf	But, I don't see how what you're saying is at all useful.	00:17
lardman	well I need to sort plugins into priority order, accounting for the fact that new plugins might be added and old ones removed	00:17
derf	n=length_of_list(l); for(i=1;i<n;i++)l[i]=l[0]+i; does what you want.	00:17
lardman	so I need to add, keeping what I can of the existing order, then remove any gaps and repeats	00:17
lardman	they are not ordered to begin with though	00:18
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derf	Add a qsort() before that then.	00:18
DocScrutinizer	lardman: you're talking about the good old BASIC line# renumbering :-D	00:18
lardman	hmm, Qt has a qsort, well that saves me doing that then, all good	00:19
DocScrutinizer	(from the times where basic programs had line numbers)	00:19
lardman	I seem to remember that you could assign any old number to the lines though?	00:19
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DocScrutinizer	derf: =l[0]+(i*skew)	00:20
DocScrutinizer	lardman: yes, and they had not to be 'contiguous', but were executed strictly in ascending order	00:21
DocScrutinizer	btw COBOL did the same	00:22
DocScrutinizer	in very old standards	00:22
DocScrutinizer	COBOL65 or sth :-P	00:22
lardman	what I neglected to say is that while I need to sort one array, I need to know the sorted order of the original indices so that I can also rearrange some other related arrays	00:23
lardman	so qSort() is out, and I'll have to diy I guess	00:24
DocScrutinizer	eh?	00:24
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DocScrutinizer	I'd suggest a pointer in each record of table A, pointing to corresponding records in tables B..n	00:25
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lardman	these are QLists	00:26
DocScrutinizer	the you still can use any sort of sort of^H^H you like	00:26
DocScrutinizer	so what? isn't a QList a linked list of QObjects?	00:26
lardman	yes, but afaiu it can't contain both a numeric value (which I want to sort) and some sort of pointer so I can keep track of how my other lists need to be reordered	00:27
lardman	I may be wrong though	00:27
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lardman	hastable I guess	00:28
DocScrutinizer	nah, not the list holds the pointers, the objects have to	00:28
DocScrutinizer	you instantiate a new Qobject that inherits the original Qobject plus the pointer(s)	00:29
lardman	I'm not sure how that will remain sortable though, ah I guess as long as it has a < operator it will be	00:30
lardman	seems like overkill mind you	00:30
DocScrutinizer	then you define the sort function, which is taking the "line number" out of each QList.Qobject and creates a sorted QList, then you discard the original list	00:30
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DocScrutinizer	th enew QList has the Qobjects sorted and still they have each a pinter to their counterpart in another set of objects	00:32
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DocScrutinizer	(overkill) well if you're using objects then you need to do OO, and also use object properties	00:34
lardman	yeah but I'm only using objects because that's the way Qt likes to handle everything	00:35
DocScrutinizer	a paradigm break is always causing headache	00:35
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DocScrutinizer	once you understand that what you call an object is actually just a pointer, you get a clearer idea of the actual overhead involved	00:37
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DocScrutinizer	so a QList is a linked list of address pointers	00:39
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DocScrutinizer	s/is a/is just a simple	00:43
lardman	it is simple, but requires me to subclass the QList, which I can't be arsed to do	00:44
DocScrutinizer	wouldn't it just be enough when you carefully design the objects in that list?	00:45
lardman	otoh it might make sense to combine all my data in a single object to save time	00:45
DocScrutinizer	yes, exactly	00:45
lardman	not at this time of night no :)	00:46
DocScrutinizer	hmm, have to get up in 6h	00:47
DocScrutinizer	might actually be better to be up in 6h :-P	00:48
lardman	it's also debatable whether the having a single list would be quicker as I need to search over two of the data types	00:48
derf	If you're using a linked list, it will be slow.	00:49
derf	-= The End =-	00:49
DocScrutinizer	you can create a second list from the first one, as a result of sorting it by second criterion	00:49
lardman	QList is not a linked list	00:49
lardman	it's an array of pointers	00:50
derf	Well, DocScrutinizer said it was. I don't know a damn thing about Qt.	00:50
DocScrutinizer	ouuff	00:50
DocScrutinizer	well, in the end it doesn't matter how it's built internally	00:51
lardman	anyway the added hassle of making my own type, implementing searching across more than one element of that type, etc., is why I'm happy to stick with a QList until such time as it looks too this that the other or slow	00:51
DocScrutinizer	that's the nice thing about OO	00:51
derf	I mean, you're talking about a list of plugins.	00:52
derf	People are going to have, what, a dozen of them?	00:52
lardman	quite, so it really makes no odds other than personal satisfaction	00:52
derf	Wake me when you have a hundred thousand, at least.	00:52
DocScrutinizer	yeah, academic problem	00:52
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Termana	good morning	01:47
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lcuk	lardman\|gone, i miss vb collections :P	02:02
MohammadAG	morning Termana	02:02
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pupnik	minitube is broken here... it plays a few seconds then skips to the next video	02:12
pupnik	is mytube working again? alternatives?	02:13
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Psi	anyone used a 32gb microsd card in the n900?	02:35
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pupnik	probably	02:39
MohammadAG	pupnik, cuteTube	02:41
pupnik	ty MohammadAG	02:46
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DocScrutinizer	pupnik: http://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/pulseaudio-modules-meego/blobs/master/src/common/optimized.c#line193 #line211 and a special goodie: #line369,370	03:41
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, technically, if I compile a zImage with the same patchset as a different one, shouldn't modules load fine?	03:59
DocScrutinizer	umm, yes?	04:00
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DocScrutinizer	don't they?	04:00
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DocScrutinizer	as long as kernel is technically same patchlevel and has same version-magic	04:01
MohammadAG	k, now I'm certain meego has a fail repo system	04:02
DocScrutinizer	haha	04:02
MohammadAG	I applied patches, first of all the modem failed to get patched, second, the lp5whatever.h file was missing	04:02
MohammadAG	and of course, no instructions on how to build a kernel, only cryptic messages in a .spec file	04:03
MohammadAG	you need to figure out the rest yourself	04:03
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, have a look at it http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/kernel-source/trees/master	04:05
DocScrutinizer	you think I need some more to feel depressed? Not really	04:06
DocScrutinizer	btw gitorious is slow like tmo	04:07
MohammadAG	gitorious is fine	04:07
DocScrutinizer	even gave a "GURU ERROR:" pfffft	04:07
MohammadAG	lol	04:07
MohammadAG	working fine for me, weird	04:07
DocScrutinizer	got better since an hour	04:08
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MohammadAG	funny thing is, you ask for help in #meego, and everybody's too busy to help	04:08
MohammadAG	so, they open sourced the OS, and ruined the documentation	04:09
DocScrutinizer	AHAAAA! the missing documentation - now everything becomes clear and bright: http://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/pulseaudio-modules-meego/blobs/master/src/voice/module-meego-voice.c#line313	04:09
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MohammadAG	why is each line commented out with a /* */?	04:10
MohammadAG	// is enough :/	04:10
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derf	Some of us still believe C++ comments in C are heresey.	04:11
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ieatlint	yes, reject c99... c89 is the only true c	04:12
derf	I will also accept ISO C90.	04:12
ieatlint	i suspect that can be turned into a t-shirt	04:12
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derf	Of course, the real problem is that MSVC still doesn't support C99, though it does support that particular feature.	04:13
ieatlint	heh, so does gcc in c89 mode	04:13
DocScrutinizer	REM we need 17 more different methods to make lines a comment	04:14
DocScrutinizer	# don't you think so?	04:14
DocScrutinizer	. * maybe even COBOL style as well	04:15
ieatlint	sounds like a fantastic idea	04:16
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Jay_BEE	hi.	05:37
comawhite	hi	05:37
comawhite	mobile develop is complex	05:43
FauxFaux	How did you know Jay_BEE was going to ask if mobile development was easy?!	05:43
Jay_BEE	uhh...	05:44
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comawhite	FauxFaux, that wasn't meant for Jay_BEE	07:28
comawhite	I was just saying it because I'm frustrated at it	07:28
Jay_BEE	i believe FauxFaux was having fun	07:29
comawhite	hehe	07:29
comawhite	ugh I wish they'd update cmake to 2.8	07:29
comawhite	:(	07:29
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ieatlint	oooh, google just taught me a new word... "penultimate" .. now i can sound even more bombastic	07:41
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slonopotamus	so, there is dbus activation that startups services ondemand. now, is there dbus DEactivation so service will stop when nobody it connected to it via dbus?	08:41
slonopotamus	morning, btw	08:41
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slonopotamus	other question -- anyone knows threaded mail reader for n900? :)	08:53
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alterego	I think thp's blog post is a bit off. What core apps use Qt? I can't think of one that would require backwards maintainability.	09:50
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* DocScrutinizer51 waves. bbl		10:02
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Termana	114 tabs, 4.6 vaccinations provided, 11.4 books donated, 0.6 person's clean water provided, 1.1 square feet of shelter provided and 11.4 trees planted	10:41
Termana	Feel the burn of my chrome for a cause	10:41
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thp	alterego: i'm not talking about core apps requiring qt - do i?	11:10
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thp	..or backwards maintainability for that matter.	11:12
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ebzzry	Is there a way to send mail from the command line on Maemo 5?	11:17
spiritd	http://www.simplehelp.net/2008/12/01/how-to-send-email-from-the-linux-command-line/	11:18
spiritd	?	11:18
spiritd	dunno	11:18
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ebzzry	spiritd: Sorry, no. That's not it.	11:23
ieatlint	you can use dbus to create a new email and fill in the recipient, subject, body (and attach any files)... but would require pressing the send button still	11:24
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alterego	thp: seemed like it, with the mention of a qt legacy package. I can't see the use if all packages that use it are open.	11:32
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ebzzry	ieatlint: where can I get more information on that?	11:38
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ieatlint	um, i think it's on the wiki... will check	11:39
ieatlint	if not, i have an old piece of code i can probably find where i did it	11:39
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ieatlint	http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Messaging has a very basic example	11:39
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user____	apt-get update; apt get install apt; gives package apt is not available but the following packages replaces it, apt-utils, etc. I already have apt-utils and apt-get remove apt would remove apt-utils as well... i have some nokia repos, extras, extras-devel and extras-devel-testing in my sources.list. how can I resolve this?	11:52
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DocScrutinizer51	resolve what?	11:57
thp	alterego: where was a qt legacy package mentioned in the blog post?	11:57
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user____	DocScrutinizer51: apt-get upgrade wants to upgrade apt but it doesn't work. sorry forgot to mention that :)	12:00
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DocScrutinizer51	probably apt-get upgrade no good idea anyway	12:02
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user____	DocScrutinizer51: apt is the only package left	12:03
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Venemo	hi guys	12:24
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spiritd	where can I download official firmware for n900 with EN localization	12:37
jacekowski	~flashing	12:39
infobot	somebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	12:39
jacekowski	all links are there	12:39
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spiritd	jacekowski thx	12:43
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Khertan_	Morning everyone !	12:57
pupnik	servus Khertan_	12:59
Khertan_	servus humillimus Domine spectabilis pupnik	13:01
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chem\|st	gorillapod mobile works!	13:02
pupnik	ty, learned something today	13:02
MohammadAG	morning	13:05
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RST38h	http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/12/haskell-researchers-announce-discovery.html	13:07
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Venemo	morning MohammadAG :)	13:10
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RobbieThe1st	RST38h: That's surprisingly funny	13:12
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pexi	are there applications that will make n900 act as a bluetooth keyboard & mouse remote controlling htpc/ps3?	13:15
pexi	like logitech dinovo	13:15
pexi	+mini	13:15
MohammadAG	morning Venemo :)	13:15
retro\|cz	Where I should copy jazz jackrabit files on NOKIA N900 (openjazz) ?	13:15
retro\|cz	Tried everything :(	13:15
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pexi	http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards/keyboard/devices/3848	13:15
Venemo	MohammadAG: interested in the latest version?	13:16
lcuk	pexi, bluemaemo afaik	13:16
pexi	ofc dinovo is great but also in price :)	13:16
retro\|cz	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/wolf3d/ - copy files to MyDocs	13:16
retro\|cz	I have no folder MyDocs on Nokia N900 :(	13:16
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marmoute	retro\|cz: because your n900 is plugged	13:17
retro\|cz	marmoute, so how can I copy files there ?	13:17
pexi	lcuk, thanks	13:17
retro\|cz	marmoute, using USB cabel to copy	13:17
MohammadAG	Venemo, sure :)	13:18
pexi	sadly no win media center support	13:18
Venemo	MohammadAG: ok, moment :)	13:18
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pexi	oh. media center version works	13:23
pexi	great	13:23
pexi	:)	13:23
Khertan_	MohammadAG: did you have a patched version of MfE which works with gmail email ?	13:23
Khertan_	:)	13:23
MohammadAG	isn't MfE closed? :P	13:23
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marmoute	retro\|cz: the MyDocs director is the one mounted	13:24
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Khertan_	MohammadAG: maybe	13:24
Khertan_	:(	13:24
phellarv	MohammadAG: Like that has stopped you before ;-P	13:24
retro\|cz	marmoute, ok	13:24
Khertan_	MohammadAG: so maybe time to start an open source implementation working with modest ?	13:24
Khertan_	:)	13:24
MohammadAG	mediaplayer's OSS implementation in progress :P	13:25
* MohammadAG removes the 's		13:25
Khertan_	grrr i got a sync error, nothing visible in modest, but got email notification	13:25
* MohammadAG uses Nokia Messaging tbh		13:25
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RST38h	"Wikileaks To Leak 5000 Open Source Java Projects With All That Private/Final Bullshit Removed "	13:47
pupnik	wow, http://blog.mises.org/13673/using-the-mises-catalog-with-android/	13:49
RST38h	?	13:54
Venemo	alterego: ping	13:54
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xMolatzen_dux	hi	13:55
Venemo	hello	13:55
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X-Fade	MohammadAG: Yes, it works :)	14:04
MohammadAG	X-Fade, lol	14:04
MohammadAG	X-Fade, push email? :P	14:04
pupnik	RST38h: they have been open-sourcing economics books for 10 years	14:04
pupnik	making deals with publishers, copyright holders	14:05
MohammadAG	X-Fade, assuming I had no typos, this should launch a terminal the dbus way	14:05
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MohammadAG	X-Fade, shouldn't it have imported the package by now?	14:09
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trx	where should i look for keyboard hooks, i want to simulate Fn button being pressed all the time in my app...	14:11
trx	any idea?	14:11
MohammadAG	can't you just use normal key codes?	14:11
MohammadAG	if so, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=650625&postcount=5	14:12
trx	yes, but im incapable of setting the "shift" state to pressed all the time	14:12
trx	hmm	14:13
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trx	for Fn button key code i got 228	14:13
trx	(the blue arrow)	14:13
MohammadAG	no longer have the binary to check :P	14:13
trx	doesnt matter anyways	14:14
trx	i can detect it being pressed	14:14
trx	the problem is	14:14
trx	my text field (gtk based) doesnt behave like other programs	14:14
trx	keyboar wise	14:15
trx	eg, when you pres the blue arrow once, next key u press will be like u were holding the arrow	14:15
trx	in my text field	14:15
trx	you have to hold the arrow and press the key	14:15
trx	so im trying to simulate that behavior manualy...	14:16
trx	sorry for my english btw...	14:16
trx	(and my general typing :P)	14:16
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MohammadAG	hildon.Entry?	14:23
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MohammadAG	wasn't there a way to hide a desktop icon?	14:40
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trx	MohammadAG tried adding NoDisplay=true in .desktop file?	14:48
MohammadAG	yeah, already found it	14:48
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trx	[13:25] <MohammadAG> hildon.Entry? nope, a custom memo box called SynEdit	15:07
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MohammadAG	trx, why custom?	15:10
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trx	because it supports code highlighting, code folding, macros, etc..	15:11
trx	very powerfull..	15:11
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trx	u will see my app as soon as i figure out how to pack a .deb file :/	15:12
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trx	im new to linux programming	15:12
pupnik	forget the deb, share a tarball	15:13
trx	ok	15:14
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pupnik	i'm just suggesting it :_	15:15
pupnik	of course normal users want a .deb	15:15
johndo	anybody knows if there have power settings changed in pr1.3?	15:15
johndo	my device consumes twice the power when it's idle since i upgraded to 1.3	15:15
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johndo	with 1.2 i lost about 10% battery per day when idle and now at least 20% :(	15:16
trx	pupnik yeah, ill give u a link, just to check it out it is in dev stage, i plan to add alot more options	15:16
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trx	http://www.devbin.org/txpad.tar.gz	15:19
trx	if anyone wants to check it out so far..	15:19
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pupnik	congrats trx	15:23
trx	ty	15:23
lcuk	trx, how does it perform compared to pygtkedit? (which has afaik an editing widget which is c based and does what yours does, or similar at least)	15:24
trx	i havent really tested pygtkedit much	15:25
trx	i wanted to create an ui which would be similar to ui i am used to	15:26
trx	like delphi's code editor	15:26
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MohammadAG	lcuk, and it uses a normal hildon widget afaik	15:27
trx	and add things that would speed up my work..	15:27
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lcuk	trx, of course	15:27
lcuk	MohammadAG, it might do, but its been customised up to do code layout and afaik colorizing	15:28
lcuk	ask Khertan_	15:28
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MohammadAG	lcuk, yep, I know, I use it ;)	15:28
MohammadAG	lcuk, actually, switched to Khteditor, kinda snappier	15:29
lcuk	sure, i was just mentioning like for like though	15:29
libben	frals: Isnt fmms supposed to connect to internet like the most other apps do when you tap on a new incomming mms?	15:30
libben	now i have to activate it manually first	15:30
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comawhite	would it be wrong to have some parts of my application require portrait mode while others use Landscape?	15:32
SpeedEvil	no	15:33
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SpeedEvil	If it's appropriate to the interface, it's just fine IMO.	15:33
MohammadAG	morning javispedro	15:34
SpeedEvil	You probably want to consider if there are ways round it	15:34
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javispedro	morning	15:34
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Venemo_N900	morning javispedro	15:35
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comawhite	SpeedEvil, yeah, because I will have some views there just display a list of items that the user can select. see the server list, channel list, user list and thought it'd be better to display it using Portrait rather than Landscape for it	15:37
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comawhite	And wondered if user's be annoyed at that	15:37
javispedro	yes, they will be annoyed, but they bought a n900 so they will be used to being annoyed already.	15:39
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comawhite	javispedro, hahah	15:40
comawhite	I guess I could always make it use both	15:40
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comawhite	but now i'm going to try and get some more sleep	15:42
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cameris	hi. does somebody know of an gnupg2 port for the n810?	15:45
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cameris	is gnupg2 available for n810? only know that it is for n900.	15:51
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* javispedro sighs		15:52
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RST38h	EHLO javispedro	15:54
javispedro	heya	15:55
alterego	test & vote please :) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xbox360-media-remote/1.0-1maemo2/	15:55
MohammadAG	what do I get in return?	15:55
javispedro	a botsnacK!	15:56
alterego	MohammadAG: you ow me :P	15:56
alterego	owe .. :P	15:56
MohammadAG	you're right lol	15:56
alterego	bbl	15:56
MohammadAG	alterego, does it work?	15:56
RST38h	An XBox360 maybe?	15:56
MohammadAG	actually	15:57
alterego	yeah, see tmo thread for possible issues	15:57
MohammadAG	since I'm against testing's policy	15:57
MohammadAG	Imma vote up	15:57
MohammadAG	others said it works	15:57
alterego	mainly "buttons too small"	15:57
javispedro	hah. "A method of operating a video game box via a wireless transceiver" is now patented.	15:57
MohammadAG	voted based on others' opinions :P	15:57
alterego	Fine for me I may rejig iface for 1.1 ...	15:58
MohammadAG	the N900's IR isn't a transceiver, see what I did there?	15:58
alterego	kthxbye bbl	15:58
MohammadAG	lol	15:58
javispedro	fscked patent system	15:58
javispedro	Granted December 7, 2010	15:59
* javispedro sighs		15:59
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* javispedro sighs and sighs		16:02
javispedro	4 times in half an hour.	16:03
javispedro	bad day...	16:03
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GAN900	What?	16:05
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javispedro	GAN900: I just shouldn't have read tmo today ;)	16:06
GAN900	Haha	16:06
GAN900	That's ALWAYS true.	16:06
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johndo	is there anywhere an archive of older maemo packages available?	16:09
johndo	need the previous version of htop	16:10
jacekowski	nope	16:10
jacekowski	it's gone	16:10
johndo	bummer	16:10
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MohammadAG	source sould be there	16:11
RST38h	javispedro: Check out this one instead: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/12/haskell-researchers-announce-discovery.html	16:11
RST38h	javispedro: And this: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/07/wikileaks-to-leak-5000-open-source-java.html	16:11
* javispedro lols at the second headline		16:12
* javispedro bookmarks		16:12
javispedro	who is behind it? onion news network should hire him	16:13
SpeedEvil	RST38h: :) I wrote a haskel program once.	16:13
Khertan_	lcuk, MohammadAG ?	16:15
MohammadAG	?	16:15
Khertan_	you say my nickname but i didn't have the historic :)	16:16
MohammadAG	oh, <lcuk> trx, how does it perform compared to pygtkedit? (which has afaik an editing widget which is c based and does what yours does, or similar at least)	16:16
javispedro	League Of Java Programmers For Deprecating The Living Shit Out Of Everything	16:17
Khertan_	oh :)	16:17
MohammadAG	does anyone know how to open a file with its default handler from terminal?	16:17
Khertan_	Hum ... PyGTKEditor 2.x use a c widget ... 3.x do it in python only :)	16:17
MohammadAG	a hildon widget right?	16:18
MohammadAG	or is it custom?	16:18
* MohammadAG wonders when wikileaks will hold Maemo 5's source code		16:19
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Khertan_	hildon widget ... TextArea ... if i remember well and coloration highlighting is done with python and gtk.TextArea methods	16:19
javispedro	MohammadAG: s:/source code/documentation/	16:19
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RST38h	javispedro: yea, it does look like an Onion-Technology piece =)	16:20
MohammadAG	javispedro, when you have the source code, why do you care about docs?	16:21
javispedro	because docs sounds more surrealist	16:21
javispedro	and thus more likely to happen =)	16:21
MohammadAG	javispedro, and if the docs don't exist?	16:23
MohammadAG	isn't the gamecube as powerful as a PS2? sorta?	16:23
javispedro	MohammadAG: feel free to laugh at the thread.	16:23
javispedro	MohammadAG: the NGC is slightly more powerful.	16:23
MohammadAG	hahahaha	16:24
MohammadAG	there :P	16:24
javispedro	MohammadAG: I mean at the NGC emulator request thread =)	16:24
MohammadAG	I know	16:24
MohammadAG	that's why I asked about ti :P	16:24
MohammadAG	it*	16:24
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* javispedro notes it is SDL GL so it would probably run as is if built under sbox and run under preenv		16:25
MohammadAG	javispedro, 600MHz aren't enough to run it	16:26
javispedro	so someone could build it, report it goes up to 11111^12 fps	16:26
javispedro	MohammadAG: I know	16:26
javispedro	then release it, post a faked video, get some press.	16:26
javispedro	and watch the desesperate lemmings	16:27
* javispedro wants some revenge today		16:27
MohammadAG	then a C&D	16:27
lardman	anyone know how to remove arrays in a QSettings object?	16:28
lardman	just wondering if remove()ing the base name will remove the entire array	16:28
javispedro	"OMG! Gamecube on my N900! But it runs out of memory before the first frame! But it works on the video! So that means I just need to overclock more to get it to work!!"	16:29
chem\|st	insurance comp. wants me to ship in "all" my n900 periferals with the device, or they will charge a discount on the returning	16:29
MohammadAG	http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/16/nokia-ups-the-ante-on-apple-adds-13-more-patents-to-the-24-alre	16:29
MohammadAG	javispedro, RST38h ^	16:29
chem\|st	those companies suck	16:29
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chem\|st	what they gonna do with the stuff? sell it on ebay? or even bin it?	16:30
johndo	is there any equivalent of the build-essential package on maemo?	16:31
javispedro	nope	16:31
javispedro	on the sdk you have maemo-sdk-dev but it is way larger	16:32
johndo	sdk is a bit overkill only to build a package from source	16:32
MohammadAG	I thought there was a build-essential package	16:32
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javispedro	you want to build a package ON device?	16:32
johndo	javispedro: what do you mean? i want to compile it from source	16:33
javispedro	MohammadAG: you are right indeed. in SDK too.	16:33
* MohammadAG has an on-device SDK		16:33
javispedro	s/too/only	16:33
jacekowski	johndo: then you need SDK	16:33
jacekowski	johndo: scratchbox is a minimum you need	16:33
* MohammadAG would share it, but Nokia legal might rape my ass		16:34
jacekowski	MohammadAG: does it fit?	16:34
jacekowski	hmm, you have that extended /home	16:34
MohammadAG	-rw-r--r-- 1 user root 1073741824 Oct 18 01:35 /home/user/MyDocs/maemo-sdk-v1_2.img.ext2	16:34
MohammadAG	simple chroot	16:35
javispedro	or use a partition on sdk card	16:35
javispedro	*sd	16:35
* MohammadAG prefers to keep everything under one image		16:35
MohammadAG	I asked X-Fade to ping them, not sure if he did though	16:35
RST38h	MohammadAG: remember how SCO moved from Technology to Litigation sector and how it went? =)	16:36
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johndo	jacekowski: scratchbox is only available for pc, not for the n900?	16:39
jacekowski	yep	16:40
jacekowski	you can download all -dev packages	16:40
jacekowski	and gcc	16:40
johndo	so i can't compile a package on the n900??	16:40
jacekowski	download compiler	16:40
jacekowski	and -dev packages	16:41
jacekowski	but it will take quite a bit of space	16:41
johndo	hmm	16:41
Venemo_N900	you can, but these things'll eat your rootfs	16:41
johndo	sigh	16:41
MohammadAG	or you can make a chroot image	16:41
MohammadAG	RST38h, what's SCO? :P	16:42
johndo	i guess i have to live with that broken htop :(	16:42
MohammadAG	which source do you want compiled?	16:42
SpeedEvil	broken how?	16:42
johndo	htop, previous version	16:42
MohammadAG	link?	16:42
johndo	cant change fonts anymore	16:42
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johndo	http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/h/htop/htop_0.8.3-1maemo2.dsc	16:43
SpeedEvil	johndo: If downloading the compiler, I recommend enabling the tools repo, copying /' onto /home/user/chroot - or whatever - removing tools repo.	16:43
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SpeedEvil	Then chroot into that directory, and install build-essentials	16:43
Venemo	~seen Arkenoi	16:44
infobot	arkenoi is currently on #maemo, last said: 'RST38h, ah, nice thing'.	16:44
Venemo	Arkenoi: ping.	16:44
MohammadAG	Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/h/htop/htop_0.8.3.orig.tar.gz MD5Sum mismatch	16:45
Arkenoi	huh?	16:45
johndo	MohammadAG: nice :/	16:45
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MohammadAG	building	16:47
MohammadAG	done	16:48
MohammadAG	http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/debfiles/htop_0.8.3-1maemo2_armel.deb johndo	16:48
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johndo	MohammadAG: i try it, thank you	16:51
MohammadAG	yw	16:51
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yacc	Hmmm, how the &%§ does one authorize a new contact in the "Chat/SMS" non-app of the n900?	17:16
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Choom	usually you get a notification asking about that	17:17
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DocScrutinizer51	yup, 3G and IRC, while riding on a train, cuts thru battery like cookies	17:59
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ShadowJK	try gsm :D	18:02
Venemo	DocScrutinizer51: yeah... experienced it myself :)	18:03
Venemo	DocScrutinizer51: however for barely covered areas, EDGE and IRC sucks the battery too	18:03
pupnik	can irc servers cache/burst their sent data?	18:04
pupnik	tha twould help a lot	18:04
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pupnik	user settable from 2-20 seconds for e.g.	18:04
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DocScrutinizer51	pupnik: somebody was developing sth like that. I planned to patch my ZNC same way, but haven't got to it yet	18:07
DocScrutinizer51	even 45s would be fine. 2s absolutely worthless with UMTS	18:08
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MohammadAG	IRC checks for data every 2s?	18:08
DocScrutinizer51	nah	18:08
* MohammadAG usually lags 15s, so he'd be fine with 15s bursts		18:09
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DocScrutinizer51	IRC sends data packets at arbitrary points in time	18:09
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pupnik	DocScrutinizer51 thanks, i didn't think of doing it on my own machine	18:10
DocScrutinizer51	UMTS stays active for quite some seconds after transfer	18:10
pupnik	ahhh	18:10
pupnik	to get fancy, your proxy should reduce the cache time when you're typing and increase it if you're idle	18:11
DocScrutinizer51	yep	18:11
dneary	Hi	18:12
DocScrutinizer51	was on my specs	18:12
dneary	Anyone find my hand-off email useful?	18:12
dneary	Felt like it was redundant, since most of the stuff I've documented was done many moons ago	18:12
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Venemo_N900	dneary: what email?	18:13
dneary	Venemo_N900, "Preparing the hand-over" on maemo-community	18:14
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dneary	Useful information anyone interested in community docs should read	18:14
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Venemo_N900	can you give me a link?	18:14
dneary	Venemo_N900, Ehm... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=maemo-community+%22Preparing+the+hand-over%22&l=1	18:17
lcuk	dneary, actually offering web links when discussing mail really adds context :P	18:17
dneary	lcuk, But lmgtfy is so handy!	18:18
DocScrutinizer51	nah, lmgtfy is too much overhead. can't be arsed to invoke that here in on the train, via shaky 2G	18:18
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lcuk	http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/63942	18:19
yacc	DocScrutinizer51, that's why you don't enable 3G usually, especially when you know that you are far away from a recharge opportunity ;)	18:20
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DocScrutinizer51	yacc: I'm far away from 3G, sitting on a mains outlet and N900 charging :-P	18:21
yacc	DocScrutinizer51: Luckily, the N900 has a changeable battery, and there are external charger for your secondary pack, ...	18:21
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yacc	Although, if I knew that I'll be taking a long voyage, I'd probably upgrade to 3-4 BL-5J instead of the 2 that I've got now :)	18:22
DocScrutinizer51	E here	18:22
DocScrutinizer51	3	18:23
yacc	lol.	18:23
DocScrutinizer51	German ICE train just fine - 230V socket on each seat	18:23
DocScrutinizer51	they even have crappy hotspot on board, for several bucks/day	18:24
sp3000	now you just need the pants with integrated chargers	18:25
DocScrutinizer51	eh: the nokia wallwart fits into my jacket pocket	18:25
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yacc	DocScrutinizer: Well, the old ICEs have been all replaced then I guess.	18:28
yacc	DocScrutinizer51, that leaves only ICs with 4 outlets per couch ;)	18:29
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DocScrutinizer51	actually 2, but you hardly ever meet anybody else using even one of them	18:31
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* ShadowJK is making pants with integrated charger		18:40
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lardman	I hate QLists	18:40
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zeenix	lardman: i'm sure the feeling is mutual	18:44
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Venemo_N900	lardman: why is that?	18:48
Venemo_N900	lardman: the QLists have been nice to me so far	18:48
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, that would be awesome	18:51
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Venemo_N900	~MohammadAG	18:52
infobot	it has been said that mohammadag is your father	18:52
Venemo_N900	lol	18:52
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: why are you my father? :D	18:54
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chem\|st	ShadowJK: a jacket with solarcharger would be nice too	18:54
ShadowJK	No sun this time of year :)	18:54
ShadowJK	Actually I saw half of it over the trees across the lake at noon today :D	18:54
chem\|st	ShadowJK: doesn't matter solar chargers work on "light" not only "sun"	18:54
SpeedEvil	I want to make a proper mobile charger.	18:55
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: they really don't	18:55
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: Output in indirect light will typically be 1/10th or less outdoors	18:55
SpeedEvil	Indoors - not right next to a window - forget it.	18:55
SpeedEvil	Proper charger - thing the size of a n900.	18:56
Venemo_N900	nah	18:56
SpeedEvil	You open it out, then put it on hte floor, and step on it 150 times, like a car foot-pump, and it's charged, and can charge the n900	18:56
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: mmh all my solar powered gadgets work when I turn on the light in my room...	18:56
Venemo_N900	just make a fusion reactor small enough to fit into the N900	18:56
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: if you mean solar calculators, the amount of power they use is truly insanely small	18:56
chem\|st	Venemo_N900: there are powersources you dont want to pay...	18:57
SpeedEvil	Your typical calculator will use around a microamp at 3V	18:57
rute	is there a way to enter in all my contact from my pc and sync them to my n900? typing them in 1 by 1 is going to take forever.	18:57
SpeedEvil	err - 1.5v	18:57
SpeedEvil	The n900 needs around a million times this to charge	18:57
chem\|st	and uses 1/4x1" solar field...	18:57
MohammadAG	Venemo_N900, I wanted it to say I AM YOUR FATHER, but it failed	18:58
ShadowJK	10%-20% of rated power when the sun is shining directly towards the panel at the correct angle, but blocked by clouds, sounds about right to me. The amount of power you'd get from just "light" is probably smaller :)	18:58
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: hehe	18:58
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MohammadAG	does anyone know how to export a partition other than mmcblk0p1 via USB?	18:59
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: but you can't be my father	18:59
chem\|st	ShadowJK: that's where I come from... I do not expect high grade 24.8% efficiency on a solar-jacket!	18:59
lardman	Venemo_N900: I've got 3 lists, one containing QStrings, one containing bools and one containing ints	19:00
lardman	the QString and bool ones are fine, but the one containing ints changes when I pass it to other classes	19:01
* SpeedEvil has been doing research on solar panel possibilities in scotland.		19:01
* SpeedEvil wishes that governmental incentives were sane		19:01
chem\|st	but 2 10x3" solarpanels on the shoulderpads should be enough to supply at least enough power to extend the life to some more hours!	19:01
Venemo_N900	lardman: interesting.	19:01
lardman	zeenix: yes, I'm sure the feeling is mutual ;)	19:01
lardman	I've been arsing about passing pointers to lists, by ref, etc., and they still change	19:02
ShadowJK	hm, N810 light meter says 5 lux in my room right now	19:03
SpeedEvil	lardman: You're looking at about 6W in the hot desert sun - or maybe 1W outside in diffuse light, if lucky	19:03
SpeedEvil	5 lux is on the order of 1/100th of a watt per square meter.	19:03
ShadowJK	Yeah I just figured out if it was the Sun and not CFL I'd need a 850 square meter solar panel	19:04
ShadowJK	to charge N900 :)	19:04
ShadowJK	or about 9000 square feet	19:05
SpeedEvil	The above idea - car-footpump type - is problematic only mechanically alas.	19:05
SpeedEvil	Packaging and gearboxes are hard.	19:05
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ShadowJK	ya :/	19:05
lcuk	lardman, why 3 lists out of interest	19:06
slonopotamus	can dbus service somehow detect when clients connect/disconnect to it?	19:06
lcuk	are they holding different aspects of the same set of objects	19:06
lardman	yeah name, priority and whether it's enabled	19:06
lcuk	ie each object has a {string,int,bool}	19:06
spiritd	quick question... i have new N900... should I install latest firmware if i want use devel packages like aircrack, hostmode, etc.?	19:06
lardman	I thought this would be a quick and dirty way to test before moving onto incorporate that data in the plugins themselves	19:07
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DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: I suggested that yesterday	19:10
lardman	I thought it would be finished yesterday too!	19:10
DocScrutinizer51	spiritd: h-e-n hostmode will install all it needs	19:12
DocScrutinizer51	well at least you don't really need to 'update firmware'	19:12
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spiritd	DocScrutinizer ... apt-get upgrade do the same?	19:13
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spiritd	DocScrutinizer ... i dont know... i am using debian on my server... so ... i have N900 for 3 hours...	19:14
spiritd	btw i am getting failed catalouges	19:14
DocScrutinizer51	never do apt-get upgrade. It usually breaks your system	19:14
spiritd	lol :)	19:14
lardman	what signal is emitted when the arrow-where-close-button-would-be button is pressed for a Qt window?	19:16
lardman	stacked window that is	19:16
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MohammadAG	[54256.091125] mmc0: cover is open, card is now inaccessible	19:17
MohammadAG	[54256.283905] mmc0: card aaaa removed	19:17
MohammadAG	lardman, it's just an X button	19:17
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lardman	I can't see where it's created though and what's attached to it	19:18
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MohammadAG	lardman, QMainWindow?	19:18
lardman	yes	19:19
MohammadAG	the arrow is just the way Maemo makes a stacked window	19:19
MohammadAG	on a normal PC it's just an X button, and clicking it would hide() the window	19:19
spiritd	DocScrutinizer so how can i update my system?	19:19
MohammadAG	spiritd, you don't need to	19:19
MohammadAG	but if want to, go to App manager and click update	19:20
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GAN900	The paranoid schizophrenics are out in force.	19:20
lardman	MohammadAG: but is there a hide event signal emitted?	19:20
* Arkenoi wonders what is updated in calendar-home-widget and fbreader almost daily, no visual changes :-)		19:20
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lardman	http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/video/Ohio-USA-Lake-Erie-Lighthouse-Covered-In-Ice/Video/201012315856608	19:22
MohammadAG	lardman, there are none, see this http://www.qtcentre.org/threads/21184-close-window-signal	19:22
lardman	looks like someone's been trying to make a cake	19:22
* NooBmonk3y wakes up to the word cake!		19:23
NooBmonk3y	evenin!	19:23
Venemo	hello NooBmonk3y :)	19:23
NooBmonk3y	hey Ven	19:23
NooBmonk3y	:)	19:23
lardman	hi NooBmonk3y	19:23
NooBmonk3y	hey hey!	19:24
lardman	MohammadAG: so presumably the QMainWindow::closeEvent(event); does the hiding?	19:24
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MohammadAG	I think so :)	19:24
lardman	I'll test, thanks	19:24
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* MohammadAG thinks he borked his microSD		19:24
MohammadAG	hey NooBmonk3y	19:25
NooBmonk3y	hey Mo :)	19:25
NooBmonk3y	everyone having a gd day?	19:25
lardman	hideEvent() might also work	19:25
MohammadAG	with all respect, I wonder who's the idiot who made the magnet disable a damn microSD card	19:25
NooBmonk3y	MohammadAG, some idiot who earns a lot probably	19:26
lardman	the assumption is that the cache can be written before you can rip the back off and unclip the card	19:26
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GAN900	lardman, is that a challenge?	19:28
MohammadAG	GAN900, you can trick with a magnet anyways	19:28
lardman	GAN900: a subconscious challenge from the N900 hw engineers ;)	19:28
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MohammadAG	ok	19:31
MohammadAG	so either my microSD card is broken	19:31
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: actually magnet ENables the uSD	19:31
MohammadAG	or my microSD reader in the N900	19:31
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51 I know	19:31
MohammadAG	is the microSD reader replaceable?	19:31
DocScrutinizer51	and I'd think that's rather smart	19:32
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, I'd think not, I already broke one battery cover	19:33
spiritd	MohammadAG what firmware you have?	19:33
spiritd	i found on my 2.2009.51-1	19:34
MohammadAG	upgrade, though you don't have to	19:34
MohammadAG	Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR0	19:34
MohammadAG	fact of the day: with the MeeGo initrd image, if the battery is low, neither the eMMC or the uSD are recognized	19:34
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Venemo	hehe	19:36
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pupnik	my PC motherboard shows up as having a 'Gigabyte' access point during wlan scan	19:36
pupnik	but linux doesn't have a driver it seems	19:37
pupnik	weourd	19:37
MohammadAG	how do I disable Ubuntu's stupid automount?	19:38
DocScrutinizer51	haha	19:39
spiritd	MohammadAG this? RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin	19:39
DocScrutinizer51	you love h-e-n mount better?	19:39
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, yes	19:40
DocScrutinizer51	spiritd: simply update what Hildon AppManager offers you to update	19:40
MohammadAG	spiritd, also yes	19:40
lardman	bbl	19:40
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spiritd	DocScrutinizer ... i want install some "good" firmware... because i dont want backup all the stuff after i will the N900 with contacts	19:41
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spiritd	*fill	19:41
DocScrutinizer51	:shrug:	19:42
spiritd	:)	19:43
DocScrutinizer51	well, flashing for sure is faster than SSU	19:43
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DocScrutinizer51	anyway you understand it's a linux system, and the only true 'firmware' is that for wlan chip, and maybe BT, and the modem	19:46
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spiritd	DocScrutinizer ... yeah ...	19:46
spiritd	well but update whole firmware is better than apt-get upgrade right?	19:47
spiritd	updating firmware is more stable ... ?	19:47
spiritd	just guessing... using logic... no experience :)	19:47
DocScrutinizer51	so there's no diff in result from flashing and from SSU, except SSU keeps your data untouched	19:47
spiritd	DocScrutinizer well my phone is new so... no data	19:48
Venemo	then reflash	19:48
DocScrutinizer51	the go for flashing if you're in a hurry. Go for SSU via HAM to learn about that process	19:48
spiritd	"learn about proccess" how its different from upgrading debian from console? :))	19:49
spiritd	pc	19:49
DocScrutinizer51	yes	19:49
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DocScrutinizer51	console apt-get upgrade is deprecated	19:50
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spiritd	DocScrutinizer and what use app manager for upgrade? ... i mean what command	19:51
Venemo	start app manager, click update	19:51
spiritd	ye ... but what that actually does	19:52
Venemo	it starts apt-worker, which does its job	19:52
MohammadAG	something with apt-worker	19:52
raulfh	where can I find a big picture of harmattan components?	19:52
spiritd	so apt-worker... hmm thy	19:53
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spiritd	man apt-worker :)	19:53
* MohammadAG waits for disappointment		19:53
spiritd	dont have apt-worker in PR1.1	19:53
DocScrutinizer51	haha	19:54
DocScrutinizer51	raulfh: on wiki	19:54
Venemo	maybe there's just no manpage for it	19:54
MohammadAG	spiritd, it's in /usr/libexec	19:54
MohammadAG	just use app manager	19:54
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MohammadAG	it doesn't only use apt-worker	19:54
spiritd	MohammadAG :/ ... cli <3	19:54
MohammadAG	it changes UBIFS compression (javispedro found that one I think)	19:55
MohammadAG	then flash your device :P	19:55
spiritd	yy installing nokia updater	19:55
Venemo	spiritd: if you love the CLI, then either reflash, or do apt-get dist-upgrade	19:55
Venemo	spiritd: see	19:55
MohammadAG	Venemo, don't suggest the latter	19:55
Venemo	~flashing	19:55
infobot	i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	19:55
MohammadAG	sometimes it breaks stuff ;)	19:55
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spiritd	Venemo ... already reading that	19:56
raulfh	DocScrutinizer51: only for fremantle, but not for harmattan	19:57
raulfh	in addition, there' s no architectural overview	19:57
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spiritd	flashing	20:11
spiritd	btw teamspeak 3 client available?	20:12
spiritd	i found only x86 bnaries	20:12
ZogG	MohammadAG ping	20:13
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derf	spiritd: I think someone ported mumble. I doubt you'll find teamspeak.	20:13
MohammadAG	pong	20:14
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ZogG	MohammadAG at community chan >	20:15
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BCMM	WTF@ the guy asking the HEN beta thread if the kernel support OSS...	20:16
lcuk	BCMM, links help add context	20:16
MohammadAG	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232&page=56	20:17
MohammadAG	BCMM, I doubt he means Open Source Software	20:17
BCMM	lcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=898180&postcount=559 , but it won't make it make much more sense	20:17
BCMM	MohammadAG: i realise he means the open sound system, that's the WTF	20:18
BCMM	can't tell if he thinks that's still the normal way to access a microphone, or if he's just trying to start an OSS/ALSA flamewar	20:19
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peetah	hello, writing on the ext3 partition of external mmc corrupt it, while writing on the vfat partition does not, according to e2fsck and fsck.vfat	20:21
peetah	does it ring a bell to anyone ?	20:21
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peetah	writing on both partitions with another device does not corrupt file systems	20:21
BCMM	out of interest, what makes GTK and Qt apps look similar on maemo?	20:22
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Venemo	BCMM: QGtkStyle	20:24
Venemo	BCMM: or, if you want more details, QMaemo5Style, which is derived from QGtkStyle	20:24
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BCMM	Venemo: that's the thing where Qt uses the GTK style, right?	20:24
Venemo	right	20:24
MohammadAG	try -style cleanlooks :P	20:25
Venemo	it's mostly the same thing that happens when you use KDE or Qt apps on a Gnome desktop	20:25
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peetah	nobody is aware of any software problem with writing on ext3 fs on the external mmc ?	20:32
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peetah	I would like to be sure that my problem is not a hardware failure of the n900 mmc reader since I don't have this issue with other readers and the same card	20:33
ZogG	Venemo лву шы умшд	20:33
ZogG	kde is evil	20:33
ZogG	why Qt means for most people KDE	20:33
Venemo	ZogG: that's why I use Gnome	20:33
ZogG	Venemo, gnome is less evil now, but it was ugly for a long time (as KDE btw) until ubuntu popularity	20:33
ZogG	but gnome is evil too	20:34
ZogG	xfce4 FTW	20:34
ZogG	oh yeah oh yeah	20:34
Venemo	why is gnome evil?	20:35
ZogG	Venemo i didn't like the politics, of depending everything on everything	20:37
ZogG	you want gtk app you get half gnome	20:37
ZogG	it';s like KDE is Qt, you want somwething Qt, you get half KDE that needs other half	20:37
spiritd	y	20:38
wmarone	ZogG: funny, there are no kde chunks on my N900...	20:38
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ZogG	wmarone not talking about maemo	20:39
ZogG	we talking about desktop	20:39
wmarone	well, if you want a KDE or Gnome app, you get KDE and Gnome. nothing to do with the toolkit.	20:41
Venemo	hehe	20:41
Venemo	anyway, I prefer the Gnome desktop. it's the simplest to use	20:41
ZogG	wmarone that's my point	20:41
Venemo	but I use some KDE apps too, for example Konversation is a great IRC client	20:41
ZogG	i hate both them for this	20:41
ZogG	but now gnome is going less dependies	20:42
ZogG	Venemo xchat is more than enuf for me	20:42
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ZogG	there is only one app i couldn't change	20:42
Venemo	what's that?	20:42
ZogG	KDE's cd writer	20:42
ZogG	k3b	20:43
ZogG	but heard after kde4 it's shitty too =)	20:43
Venemo	hehe	20:43
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Venemo	nah KDE is nice. it has all the effects and stuff	20:43
Venemo	but it's hard to find settings&stuff in it	20:43
Venemo	gnome is dead easy to use	20:44
ZogG	useless effects for most cases and it's ugly	20:44
ZogG	it's like mac os style but in windows me way =)	20:44
ZogG	it's too much and too cheap	20:44
ZogG	don't liek it	20:44
ZogG	all this round coners things and shinny stuff =)	20:45
Venemo	KDE is too resource hungry	20:45
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BCMM	ZogG: rounded corners and shiny stuff are configurable...	20:53
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BCMM	ZogG: and i don't consider requiring mono, of all things, to be reducing dependencies	20:55
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Venemo	BCMM: what do you have against Mono?	20:57
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lolloo	I guess N900 photos app doesn't support GIF images! wtf.	21:04
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lolloo	is N900 for real?	21:05
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lolloo	hehe	21:05
wolf^	it can show gifs, but cannot into preview	21:07
lolloo	mine doesnt! it shows me a broken Icon!	21:08
lolloo	lame	21:08
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lolloo	even the worst nokia phone can show GIF properly	21:08
lolloo	why N900 no? so bad!	21:09
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lolloo	is there a merical to fix this lame problem?	21:09
mikki-kun	what is moe annoying than seeing your hardware for your internet is at the post which you should pick up tomorrow?	21:15
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lolloo	no GIF support. do you call that internet hardware?	21:16
mikki-kun	going there and feeling lucky they already hand it out today but then having a non-functional line!	21:16
mikki-kun	i am like having the keys to a porsche 911!	21:16
lolloo	N900 missing so much.	21:16
mikki-kun	no, i even have the porsche	21:16
mikki-kun	but there are no streets to drive it!	21:16
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lolloo	put wings and fly	21:17
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mikki-kun	i don't drink red bull	21:19
lolloo	dont drink it pour it in ur car	21:19
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johndo	in which directory the desktop shortcuts are stored?	21:21
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MohammadAG	/usr/share/applications/hildon/	21:21
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johndo	MohammadAG: i mean the ones i have added to my homescreen	21:22
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MohammadAG	they're in gconf afaik, not a directory	21:24
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spiritd	i cant see search button in pr1.3 app manager	21:45
spiritd	is it somewhere else? or bug?	21:45
lcuk	spiritd, enter a category and type	21:45
lcuk	search as you keypress	21:46
spiritd	i set All	21:46
spiritd	then taskbar... Refresh, Log, App cat, Restore app	21:46
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spiritd	:/	21:48
spiritd	wtf	21:48
spiritd	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53768	21:50
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spiritd	what are you using for browsing / structure?	22:01
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bakarat	ok, i just got the n900 (bit late to the party i know), and it seems awesome except for one thing: how do you rotate the screen? it seems stuck in landscape?	22:01
spiritd	is there some nautilus or whatever	22:01
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spiritd	bakarat... i am new too... and i heard its landscape only	22:01
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nid0	bakarat - most of the system is landscape only	22:02
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spiritd	just use "site:talk.maemo.org keyword" in google	22:02
nid0	certain applications work in portrait, the phone and browser being examples	22:02
bakarat	ok silly question, where is the phone one? :P	22:02
nid0	its the application in your applications list named "phone"	22:03
spiritd	nid0 what are you using for browsing files	22:03
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johndo	is there any option to hide the bottom bar of an osso-xterm?	22:03
johndo	for a single one, not in general	22:03
Venemo	johndo: no, but you can hide the top bar with the fullscreen button	22:04
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johndo	Venemo: yes, but i rather would like to hide the bottom bar	22:05
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bakarat	i seem to recall the n800 had the ability to "intelligently" switch on and off wifi/gps, i'm guessing that's still the case?	22:05
bakarat	or if i "enable" gps, is it like always on?	22:05
bakarat	(thinking of battery)	22:05
Venemo	bakarat: nope, it is only powered if there's something that needs it	22:06
bakarat	ah sweet	22:06
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Venemo	bakarat: there's a status bar icon (depicting a satellite antenna) shown when the GPS module is active	22:06
bakarat	Venemo, ah thanks	22:07
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bakarat	i started the browser btw, how do you swtich to portrait?	22:07
johndo	bakarat: there's also an autodisconnect package which monitors wifi and gsm connections	22:07
johndo	bakarat: it automatically switches when you turn the device	22:08
Venemo	bakarat: menu/options/settings/"enable rotation"	22:08
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johndo	or your version is too old	22:08
bakarat	Venemo, ah ok hehe	22:08
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bakarat	johndo, well, fresh from the store	22:09
bakarat	so probably slightly outdated :P	22:09
Venemo	bakarat: maybe reflash with the latest software	22:09
Venemo	see	22:09
Venemo	~flashing	22:09
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	22:09
spiritd	guys what are you using for file browsing?	22:10
spiritd	i d like some 2 panel browser	22:10
bakarat	Venemo, i'll leave that for the weekend, need to get it set up quickly atm :P	22:12
Venemo	bakarat: it only takes a few minutes	22:12
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bakarat	for reasons i can not fathom, i can not find the "menu/options/settings/enable rotation" thingy anywhere	22:14
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johndo	bakarat: you also can update it with the program manager	22:15
Venemo	bakarat: it's added in the latest software	22:15
Venemo	bakarat: see your current version in Settings	22:16
Venemo	bakarat: settings/about product	22:16
bakarat	Venemo, 2.2009.51-1	22:17
johndo	you need to be registered on maemo.org even to file bug reports only, don't you?	22:17
johndo	bakarat: "slightly" outdated :)	22:17
bakarat	johndo, :D	22:17
spiritd	i updated via Nokia Updater	22:17
spiritd	fast and easy	22:17
Venemo	bakarat: that's too old.	22:17
johndo	afaik this version does not have portrait mode for browser	22:18
Venemo	bakarat: on that, the browser doesn't support portait	22:18
bakarat	ah k	22:18
bakarat	Venemo, johndo can i update with the program manager in this version or is it reflash-only? :P	22:18
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johndo	i have upgraded mine with the programm manager	22:19
johndo	but in two steps as there were 2 updates over time	22:19
Venemo	bakarat: you can update with the app manager	22:19
bakarat	Venemo, sweet	22:19
bakarat	is it more like the debian update: it just works(TM) or more like ubuntu: TIAS?	22:20
johndo	bakarat: more like debian for me (at least so far)	22:21
johndo	maybe backup you configs nevertheless, just in case ;)	22:21
bakarat	johndo, as easy as cp /etc ... ? :P	22:22
bakarat	but either way, nothing is really configured yet and i read that there is always a "reset to factory settings" thingy	22:23
johndo	bakarat:there's an backup application	22:23
bakarat	o nice	22:23
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bakarat	btw, i have read conflicting information: some claim that an upgrade path to meego will be provided, others deny it	22:24
bakarat	any idea which one is true? :P	22:24
nid0	there will be no officially-provided upgrade by nokia	22:24
bakarat	o	22:24
nid0	unless they have a massive change of heart	22:24
nid0	but the community is working on a release	22:25
bakarat	what exactly is the future of maemo after meego?	22:25
nid0	basically, nothing	22:25
bakarat	i mean, does it keep evolving away from meego?	22:25
nid0	no	22:25
bakarat	ah k	22:25
nid0	maemo's eol, meego's the replacement	22:25
pupnik	how long did you use Windows XP bakarat	22:25
pupnik	how many years	22:25
bakarat	pupnik, at work, still using it (shiver), at home not so long :P	22:25
pupnik	did a year go by and suddenly you felt you needed a new operating system for your desktop?	22:25
bakarat	made the switch to linux many years ago	22:26
bakarat	pupnik, no, that's entirely accurate :p	22:26
pupnik	ok.. well then you understand how maemo5 "just works" now	22:26
pupnik	lol	22:26
bakarat	my n810 was also basically install some much needed apps when i bought it and just leave it alone after that	22:26
bakarat	:D	22:26
bakarat	until the damn touch screen died on me	22:26
bakarat	snif	22:27
pupnik	maemo5 will be a great OS for as long as you care to use the n900	22:27
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johndo	pupnik: the question is how long we will get security updates for maemo proprietary stuff	22:27
Arkenoi	johndo, we never got any	22:27
pupnik	security updates aren't an issue. and nokia's proprietary stuff never gets developed much anyway	22:27
Arkenoi	we have buggy flash and no one cares	22:27
Arkenoi	though it has remote code execution vulnerability	22:28
pupnik	there you go Arkenoi	22:28
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johndo	o.O	22:28
pupnik	welcome to "Flash is a Trojan"	22:28
bakarat	i'm gonna go downstairs, wifi is horrible here	22:28
bakarat	thanks for all the feedback :)	22:28
pupnik	send her to me and she will appreciate you	22:28
pupnik	cheers bakarat	22:28
* pupnik sings ~I'll be harder than your husband.... to get along with~		22:29
pupnik	Judge Duncan Ouseley to release Assange tonight/nowish	22:31
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nid0	3 hours ago-ish	22:31
nid0	walked out of court at 6	22:31
RST38h	<yawn>	22:31
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SpeedEvil	http://b3ta.com/board/10280035 - made me lol for no good reason. (thread of images about Mr Assange)	22:33
pupnik	`oh	22:33
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johndo	what's the camera-ui process for? only to start camera app when i open the lense cover?	22:38
johndo	looks like that's eating my battery	22:39
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MohammadAG	dsmetool -k /usr/bin/camera-ui	22:39
MohammadAG	you need the start the camera manually	22:40
johndo	so that's a known problem?	22:40
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BluesLee	MohammadAG: hi, do you know if someone compiled kernel modules for dvb-usb compatible with the power kernel?	22:43
johndo	MohammadAG: does -k also deactivate the process completely (after reboot) or does it only kill it?	22:43
MohammadAG	BluesLee, nope :/	22:44
MohammadAG	johndo, install togglecamera if you want	22:44
MohammadAG	actually, don't	22:44
MohammadAG	it'll move camera-ui	22:44
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MohammadAG	johndo, have a look at /etc/X11/Xsession.post/17camera-ui	22:44
* johndo just wonders why the heck camera-ui wakes up that often now in pr1.3		22:46
DocScrutinizer	bug	22:46
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DocScrutinizer	shouldn't	22:46
DocScrutinizer	how do you tell it does?	22:47
johndo	DocScrutinizer: and i guess it's a nokia proprietary program which never gets fixed ^^	22:47
johndo	by powertop	22:47
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MohammadAG	indeed shouldn't	22:47
MohammadAG	mine's quiet	22:47
DocScrutinizer	so you're sure it's the same process ID, not camera-ui respawning die to immediate segfault or sth?	22:48
DocScrutinizer	s/die/due	22:48
DocScrutinizer	BluesLee: does your old dvd-stick have working OSS drivers?	22:49
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DocScrutinizer	waitwaitwait. johndo do you by any chance have installed flashlight-extra?	22:50
johndo	DocScrutinizer: good question .. let me watch pid for a while	22:50
DocScrutinizer	flashlight-extra was EVIL on my system, it borked almost everything, and eaten my CPU	22:51
DocScrutinizer	incl camera-ui	22:51
johndo	DocScrutinizer: no, but i have something for using flash leds as a torch	22:52
DocScrutinizer	that's flashlight	22:52
johndo	DocScrutinizer: it's flashlight-applet	22:52
DocScrutinizer	then there's flashlight-extra that errr, avoids camera-ui coming up when you open lens slider, or sth	22:52
DocScrutinizer	had to nuke that one	22:53
johndo	dsmetool -t to (re)start a service?	22:54
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* johndo would be happy when flashlight is the problem		22:55
johndo	this battery draining starts to annoy me	22:55
johndo	2 days of light usage and the battery is down	22:55
johndo	which lasts a week before the upgrade	22:55
DocScrutinizer	umm	22:56
BluesLee	DocScrutinizer: good question, afaik it uses dvb-usb-wt220u-02.fw	22:56
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MohammadAG	flashlight-applet is fine	22:56
DocScrutinizer	find out if it works at all on your desktop PC, find out which drivers it needs, get the source and feed it to SB	22:57
MohammadAG	I edited it to show when the cover is closed, that way I can start the flash, open the lens, and camera-ui would fail to start so I'd be happy	22:57
DocScrutinizer	cool	22:57
BluesLee	DocScrutinizer: it works on my desktop like a charm with mplayer	22:58
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johndo	eeek, when i start camera-ui with dsmetool -t is runs twice :(	23:00
johndo	*it	23:00
BluesLee	DocScrutinizer: dvb_usb_dtt200u, dvb_usb, dvb_core and i2c_core seem to be used ... i will have a look into scratchbox	23:00
johndo	is '-t' the wron option?	23:00
BluesLee	this is what i need i guess :http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide#Compiling_External_Kernel_Modules	23:00
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DocScrutinizer	johndo: you shouldn't mess arounf with dsmetool at all	23:03
johndo	DocScrutinizer: someone told me to do :P	23:03
dotblank	Any played with clutter yet?	23:03
dotblank	any one*	23:03
DocScrutinizer	dsmetool is just for restarting processes in case they get killed or segfault or terminate by any other reason	23:03
johndo	DocScrutinizer: at least my device even reaches C4 now	23:04
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DocScrutinizer	johndo: you're sure? I've only seen MohammadAG tell you how to STOP it	23:04
johndo	still only 3.4% in C4	23:04
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johndo	right :)	23:04
johndo	DocScrutinizer: but i wanted to watch the pid of camera-ui, so i had to restart it	23:05
johndo	so what's the "right" way to restart it? boot??	23:05
DocScrutinizer	the easiest and safest way, yes	23:05
DocScrutinizer	or execute that /etc/X11/Xsession.post/17camera-ui script	23:06
johndo	gah, must have missed the "winxxx" part in my system version ;)	23:06
johndo	DocScrutinizer: ok, i try the latter	23:06
johndo	what is IRQ 2103?	23:08
johndo	wakes up 70 times per second	23:08
DocScrutinizer	nfc	23:09
SpeedEvil	Unfortunately, you don't care about wakeups or interrupts.	23:10
SpeedEvil	There is no nice breakdown of what you do care about	23:10
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: that's rather cryptic a statement	23:11
SpeedEvil	Sorry - got distracted	23:11
johndo	SpeedEvil: i would like to not care about all that stuff, but since i upgraded to 1.3 my battery dies way too fast and i really would like to find the reason ;)	23:11
SpeedEvil	389 interrupts a second.	23:11
SpeedEvil	If these are 1/389th of a second - then that's bad.	23:11
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SpeedEvil	If they are all one after each other 10us apart - you don't care	23:11
SpeedEvil	As they have the same impact as one interrupt from a powerupse POV	23:12
DocScrutinizer	yep	23:12
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SpeedEvil	Same with wakeups	23:12
DocScrutinizer	btw poweupse is a nice new word	23:12
DocScrutinizer	:-D	23:12
SpeedEvil	A wakeup from C4 is enormously more costly than one from C2	23:13
steinex	so i have it, the iphone 4	23:13
steinex	oh yes.	23:13
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DocScrutinizer	yes	23:13
steinex	yes	23:14
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: we'd need a powerdebug kernel	23:14
johndo	DocScrutinizer: that script to restart camera-ui, call it as root? or user?	23:14
DocScrutinizer	root	23:14
DocScrutinizer	aiui	23:15
DocScrutinizer	normally it's caled by X	23:15
DocScrutinizer	X is root	23:15
DocScrutinizer	again aiui	23:15
SpeedEvil	Most stuff is started as user under X though	23:15
DocScrutinizer	hmm	23:15
johndo	hmm :)	23:15
* SpeedEvil needs to reflash his device.		23:16
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SpeedEvil	Camera is not working, and I'm unsure if it's a hardware issue or not	23:16
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DocScrutinizer	errr, isn't that kinda related topic?	23:16
johndo	SpeedEvil: do you have the driver for bleen900 installed?	23:16
johndo	*blessn900	23:17
SpeedEvil	johndo: no	23:17
johndo	ok, that screwed up the camera for me after upgrade to 1.3	23:17
SpeedEvil	I think it was broken before I installed fcam	23:17
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SpeedEvil	I'm on 1.2	23:17
DocScrutinizer	I'm on 1.2 too, and that camera gave me black screen today, in both mbarcode and camera-ui	23:18
SpeedEvil	Odd	23:18
SpeedEvil	Camera gives internal error when i try to start it	23:18
johndo	hmm, maybe i should have stayed with 1.2 too :(	23:18
johndo	no benefits so far, but a lot of trouble with 1.3	23:18
DocScrutinizer	on second try camera-ui did work	23:19
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DocScrutinizer	johndo: alas Nokia managed to make it impossible for the normal user to stay on 1.2. You can't install any -devel or -testing app anymore	23:20
DocScrutinizer	well, a lot off then at least don't work under 1.2 anymore. So even your backups are worthless	23:20
johndo	DocScrutinizer: because of Qt4.7 i guess?	23:20
DocScrutinizer	yep	23:21
DocScrutinizer	and because of missing repo split	23:21
DocScrutinizer	for those devel and testing repos	23:21
SpeedEvil	hmm - it was just after I uninstalled that flashlight-camera-ui thing	23:21
SpeedEvil	On reflection	23:22
johndo	well, they don't seem to understand the debian repository structure properly anyway :(	23:22
DocScrutinizer	if at least they had promoted all pkgs in testing/devel to maemo-1.2 proper then, same time they rolled out 1.3	23:22
johndo	some repos don't even have proper tags so that you could set preferences	23:23
johndo	no wonder they switched to rpm with meego :(	23:23
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SpeedEvil	Phew - looking like a software problem.	23:28
SpeedEvil	Now I've reinstalled stock kernel, I don't have audio again, but camera works.	23:28
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SpeedEvil	If I install power kernel, audio works, but camera dies. :)	23:28
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johndo	DocScrutinizer: no need to restart camera-ui manually, after i use camara app camera-ui is back again ... running twice!?	23:29
DocScrutinizer	LOL	23:29
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DocScrutinizer	I seem to recall that's normal a lot of those processes run twice	23:30
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, fcamera?	23:30
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: uninstalled it now	23:30
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: That doesn't explain why sound is dead	23:30
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MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, it should work	23:31
MohammadAG	but you need the latest version, get it using	23:31
MohammadAG	apt	23:31
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, decoders-support?	23:31
DocScrutinizer	seems sound is flawed or dead on my pk + h-e-n as well	23:31
* MohammadAG blames libflac8		23:32
DocScrutinizer	though I've not really tested	23:32
johndo	so h-e-n is still experimental?	23:32
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: MohammadAG i've not been screwing with decoders support	23:32
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DocScrutinizer	johndo: sure it's experimental	23:32
DocScrutinizer	it's a beta	23:32
DocScrutinizer	or was it alha?	23:33
DocScrutinizer	alpha even	23:33
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SpeedEvil	Pulseaudio isn't started even	23:33
DocScrutinizer	\o/	23:33
johndo	and i already bought an usb adapter for it xd	23:34
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MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, libflac8, for suer	23:34
MohammadAG	sure*	23:34
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SpeedEvil	how would that have died?	23:34
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MohammadAG	pulseaudio attempts to load a module from /opt before it's mounted	23:35
DocScrutinizer	oh THAT idiocy	23:35
DocScrutinizer	MOVE that TO / THEN!	23:35
SpeedEvil	yeah - I haven't done anytjong wird with decoder packages I don't think though	23:36
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MohammadAG	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=874014&postcount=35	23:36
MohammadAG	cp /opt/maemo/usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0 /usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0	23:36
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johnsq	Hi	23:37
DocScrutinizer	will those pains in the neck ever learn about what may go to /usr, and what needs to stay on root-fs?	23:37
SpeedEvil	Odd - I wonder what moved it	23:37
SpeedEvil	it was working	23:37
SpeedEvil	And why it works with kernel-power	23:38
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DocScrutinizer	THIS HAS TO BE IN /lib, B	23:38
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MohammadAG	/usr/ is on rootfs :P	23:38
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DocScrutinizer	NOT /usr/lib!!!	23:38
DocScrutinizer	FSCK it isn't -PER DEFINITION	23:38
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MohammadAG	it is - on maemo	23:39
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: I'll come over kick your ass if you don't stop telling shit	23:40
DocScrutinizer	READ THAT!	23:40
DocScrutinizer	~optification	23:40
infobot	it has been said that optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3	23:40
Venemo	:D	23:40
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, /usr is on rootfs on maemo :P	23:41
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MohammadAG	that's a fact, not shit :P	23:41
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MohammadAG	o_O	23:41
b-man`	???O_o	23:42
Venemo	let's hope he didn't have a heart attack.	23:42
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MohammadAG	he's probably coming over	23:42
b-man`	XD	23:42
Venemo	:D	23:42
b-man`	MohammadAG: lock your doors and windows xD	23:43
MohammadAG	http://pastebin.com/efU7xu8t <-- at least this says /usr is on rootfs	23:43
Venemo	email us when he's knocking on your door	23:43
* johndo is waiting for MohammadAG to disappear too :P		23:43
Venemo	nah	23:43
MohammadAG	maemo-911 mailing list?	23:43
Venemo	johndo: nah.	23:43
Venemo	it's a long way from Germany to Israel	23:43
MohammadAG	he's DocScrutinizer	23:44
Venemo	yeah. he'll scrutinize the docs	23:44
b-man`	he can open a wormhole xD	23:44
Venemo	:D	23:44
SpeedEvil	nope - not that	23:44
SpeedEvil	odd	23:44
Venemo	hm	23:44
Venemo	don't think you can speak freely! DocScrutinizer51 is still here	23:44
MohammadAG	I know, and -8	23:45
MohammadAG	plus the channel is logged	23:45
MohammadAG	he'll be back - I hope	23:45
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, did you reboot?	23:45
SpeedEvil	yes	23:46
SpeedEvil	Nokia-N900-02-8:/usr/lib# ls -l FLAC	23:46
SpeedEvil	lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 May 31 2010 libFLAC.so.8 -> libFLAC.so.8.2.0	23:46
SpeedEvil	-rw-r--r-- 1 user root 303348 Jan 9 2010 libFLAC.so.8.2.0	23:46
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johndo	MohammadAG: do you have posted your changes to the flashlight app somewhere?	23:53
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MohammadAG	somewhere here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66251 yes	23:54
MohammadAG	it's only 2 pages :P	23:54
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b-man`	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywu1DeqXTg4&feature=channel :)	23:54
johndo	wow, that's really short for a tmo thread :)	23:54
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