| MohammadAG | you're supposed to escape the space with that \, not display it! | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| alterego | heh | 00:00 |
| DangerMaus | hehe | 00:01 |
| alterego | you don't need to escapespaces i didn't think | 00:01 |
| alterego | s/escape/escape / | 00:01 |
| infobot | alterego meant: you don't need to escape spaces i didn't think | 00:01 |
| alterego | :) | 00:01 |
| MohammadAG | I do for most sh commands | 00:01 |
| MohammadAG | ~botsmack | 00:01 |
| infobot | OWW! | 00:01 |
| alterego | ~girl | 00:03 |
| infobot | "If you don't believe in the existence of evil, you have a lot to learn", or very exciting to be with, enjoying and best of all they are very soft :) | 00:03 |
| alterego | Hah | 00:03 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 00:04 |
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| MohammadAG | ~alterego | 00:05 |
| infobot | hmm... alterego is a nice person who is always ready to help with all kinds of weird stuff. he can also answer any Qt-related question | 00:05 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, what' | 00:05 |
| MohammadAG | sigh, fail :P | 00:05 |
| alterego | Heh | 00:05 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, what's Qt in arabic | 00:05 |
| MohammadAG | see? gotcha! | 00:05 |
| You`ve | isn't qt short of cute? | 00:06 |
| alterego | Qt sand | 00:06 |
| MohammadAG | You`ve, think so | 00:06 |
| You`ve | which should have some representantion in arabic too | 00:06 |
| You`ve | your inglish is failing you on this one | 00:06 |
| alterego | Hrm, couldn't think of a joke to do with arabs | 00:06 |
| MohammadAG | I just spell it as Cute-y | 00:06 |
| MohammadAG | You`ve, English* :p | 00:07 |
| alterego | you mean cutie? | 00:07 |
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| You`ve | :) | 00:07 |
| You`ve | cutee | 00:07 |
| MohammadAG | not exactly, since I spell Qt as it is, cue, tee | 00:07 |
| You`ve | cootie? | 00:07 |
| alterego | Same | 00:07 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: yeah, all the real coders call it cute :P | 00:07 |
| MohammadAG | I just can't think of it as Cute Mutlimedia for example | 00:07 |
| MohammadAG | or cute mobility | 00:08 |
| alterego | You'll call it when you get more proficient ;) | 00:08 |
| You`ve | cootie mobility | 00:08 |
| MohammadAG | since it's not my definition of cute :P | 00:08 |
| alterego | Heh | 00:08 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I see :P | 00:08 |
| alterego | Mobility is pretty cool tbh | 00:08 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, wrappers are nice ;) | 00:08 |
| You`ve | pads? | 00:09 |
| You`ve | :) | 00:09 |
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| MohammadAG | lol pervert | 00:09 |
| * You`ve said that wrappers are nice | 00:09 | |
| alterego | Abstraction conver _wrappers_ actually :P | 00:09 |
| alterego | s/conver/covered/ | 00:10 |
| infobot | alterego meant: Abstraction covered _wrappers_ actually :P | 00:10 |
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| * You`ve joined channel #maemo. Press 1 to talk in english, 2 to talk in spanish, 3 to yawn. | 00:11 | |
| alterego | 3 | 00:12 |
| * You`ve yawned. | 00:12 | |
| alterego | sweet | 00:12 |
| MohammadAG | wow, didn't know that! | 00:12 |
| MohammadAG | 3 | 00:12 |
| MohammadAG | 2 | 00:12 |
| MohammadAG | 1 | 00:12 |
| * MohammadAG laughs | 00:12 | |
| * You`ve yawned. | 00:12 | |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 00:13 |
| MohammadAG | 2 && 3 | 00:13 |
| You`ve | only 3 works, to be honest | 00:13 |
| You`ve | :) | 00:13 |
| alterego | Heh | 00:13 |
| * MohammadAG types 911 | 00:13 | |
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| You`ve | how do you yawn in second person? | 00:14 |
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| alterego | Starting to forget when tmo was actually any good. | 00:14 |
| alterego | i guess it never was tbh | 00:14 |
| You`ve | 8x0 times? | 00:14 |
| You`ve | anyway, anyone tried 2.6.37-rc on n900? | 00:16 |
| alterego | Meh, I never really liked tmo | 00:16 |
| alterego | Nope | 00:16 |
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| You`ve | .36.2 maybe? | 00:16 |
| You`ve | OMAP3: DMA: Errata i541: sDMA FIFO draining does not finish | 00:17 |
| You`ve | this patch looks interesting | 00:17 |
| alterego | I'm using .35.2 I think | 00:18 |
| You`ve | which also has similar patch for omap2 too | 00:18 |
| You`ve | omap: dma: Fix buffering disable bit setting for omap24xx | 00:18 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, with maemo? o_O | 00:18 |
| You`ve | so another our of pocket question, how can i reset dsp tasks on 8x0 ? | 00:19 |
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| You`ve | after my app crashes 4 times with dsptask open i get only device busy | 00:19 |
| You`ve | *out of pocket | 00:19 |
| ShadowJK | is sDMA used for anything right now? | 00:19 |
| You`ve | audio? | 00:19 |
| You`ve | http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/ChangeLog-2.6.36.2 | 00:20 |
| You`ve | changelog is here | 00:20 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: no, of course not :P | 00:20 |
| You`ve | just find the strings | 00:20 |
| You`ve | The issue can be easily reproduced by creating overrun situation while recording audio. | 00:20 |
| You`ve | so i guess it's quite realistic bug | 00:20 |
| MohammadAG | axel is awesome | 00:21 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, does MeeGo currently have a repo? | 00:21 |
| * GAN900 murders a stupid redneck piece of shit. | 00:22 | |
| alterego | Yes, that's how you build custom images | 00:22 |
| GAN900 | Redneck blood and dpkg? | 00:22 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I mean something like extras-devel | 00:22 |
| alterego | If you have cbuild, you get your own personal repo | 00:23 |
| MohammadAG | to actually start pushing packages for when MeeGo reaches the N9 | 00:23 |
| MohammadAG | or whatever it's going to be called | 00:23 |
| alterego | That wont work | 00:23 |
| alterego | N9 is deb | 00:23 |
| MohammadAG | aava? | 00:24 |
| alterego | obs fremantle will be cool | 00:24 |
| alterego | then presuambly we'll have obs harmattan too | 00:24 |
| alterego | So you can build apps simultaneously for fremantle harmattan and meego | 00:25 |
| alterego | When its' finished at leas | 00:25 |
| alterego | t | 00:25 |
| ShadowJK | I would not be surprised if MeeGo compliant RPMs were installable on Harmattan too | 00:25 |
| alterego | possibly | 00:25 |
| alterego | but no one knows | 00:25 |
| alterego | and I don't think its' that likely | 00:25 |
| * alterego contemplates building a harmatten image | 00:26 | |
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| alterego | Or at least an image based on debian with harmatten components and bins from meego | 00:27 |
| alterego | and meego core apps | 00:27 |
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| * You`ve been disconnected. | 00:39 | |
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| MohammadAG | hmm | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | MeeGo 1.1.80 > 1.0.99 | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | except for the bright red LED that's there for no apparent reason | 01:36 |
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| GAN900 | So is it a Tracker issue that images isn't showing the photo I took of the scumbag's license plate today. . . . | 01:49 |
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| blackthorne | hi | 01:58 |
| blackthorne | is there any sim card on/off switcher? or even a scheduler? | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | You mean to turn off the modem? | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | there is an app I think | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I forget the name | 02:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | And online/offline mode does it too (though od course kills wifi/bt) | 02:00 |
| blackthorne | hey, that is enough | 02:01 |
| blackthorne | is it on profiles? | 02:01 |
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| blackthorne | how can I easily turn it online/offline? | 02:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | Press power - offline mode | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/cell-modem-ui/ | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Or that | 02:04 |
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| DangerMaus | or tablet mode though i think that may be an app | 02:06 |
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| DangerMaus | though i think that leaves bt and maybe wifi | 02:06 |
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| MohammadAG | is it normal for the device to get hot when using meego? | 02:09 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, bug 7790, being worked on at the moment, requires kernel hackery and upstreaming but theres people with it so I hear | 02:10 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/7790 Calendar generates .ics-files it can't read itself(!) | 02:10 |
| lcuk | errr crap, you shouldv asked on meego | 02:10 |
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| blackthorne | now I am looking for a way to schedule online/offline periods | 02:23 |
| blackthorne | with my sim/wifi/bt on my n900 | 02:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm unsure - I think clockd does this, but I've never used it | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | alarmed? | 02:33 |
| MohammadAG | it should | 02:33 |
| MohammadAG | damn it's quiet in here tonight | 02:34 |
| blackthorne | thank you, will try it | 02:35 |
| blackthorne | bye, ty | 02:38 |
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| lcuk | yes MohammadAG, it is. | 02:48 |
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| MohammadAG | err, no QWebkit.h file o_O | 02:51 |
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| toresbe | Arkenoi: cool, a Soviet PDP-11? (They were made in Ukraine, weren't they?) | 03:00 |
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| ieatlint | MohammadAG: there is no qwebkit methinks | 03:02 |
| ieatlint | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qtwebkit.html | 03:02 |
| ieatlint | "#include <QtWebKit>" | 03:02 |
| MohammadAG | ieatlint, err, I know that, it's missing from meego's image | 03:02 |
| ieatlint | ah | 03:02 |
| ieatlint | it's a plugin i think.. not sure | 03:03 |
| ieatlint | perhaps an extra package to install? | 03:03 |
| ieatlint | is "qt-webkit" package on my desktop os, for instance | 03:03 |
| Arkenoi | toresbe, iirc, yes, it is CM-1425, afair it is "elektronmash" or something | 03:04 |
| Arkenoi | it has imported j-11 inside, though it was said there is pin-compatible soviet clone of that cpu | 03:05 |
| Arkenoi | i also own an 11/34 | 03:05 |
| Arkenoi | http://milliways.chance.ru/~ark/images/mainroom.jpg (quite old photo, you may see nokia 9500 there :-) | 03:06 |
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| MohammadAG | ieatlint, libqt4-dev is installed | 03:11 |
| MohammadAG | it should get all packages | 03:11 |
| ieatlint | plugins are usually separate | 03:12 |
| ieatlint | classes starting with Qt instead of just Q indicate plugins methinks | 03:12 |
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| MohammadAG | ieatlint, it compiles fine for maemo, and ubuntu, it's a meego issue | 03:13 |
| ieatlint | ok.. | 03:13 |
| ieatlint | i'll note one last thing... on maemo, the package is libqt4-webkit | 03:14 |
| MohammadAG | apt-cache show libqt4-dev | grep Depends: | 03:18 |
| MohammadAG | you | 03:18 |
| MohammadAG | you'll find it there, I'm sure | 03:18 |
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| johnx | mornin' all | 03:50 |
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| lolloo | morning johnx \0 | 03:57 |
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| lcuk | morning johnx \o | 03:58 |
| johnx | so what's new in the world? | 03:58 |
| lcuk | oooh @ hot topic on #meego | 03:58 |
| lcuk | ^^ johnx | 03:59 |
| * lolloo agrees | 03:59 | |
| lcuk | johnx, do you have snow and general coldness over there atm? | 03:59 |
| johnx | nah. we had snow earlier. now it's just turned into a regular NW US winter: coolish, overcast and rainy | 04:00 |
| * lcuk goes and builds liqcalendar packages | 04:00 | |
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| lcuk | heh johnx | 04:00 |
| lcuk | we hadsnow snow snow snow | 04:00 |
| lcuk | then the wind changed and melted it all | 04:01 |
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| johnx | I <3 snow driving | 04:02 |
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| Termana | good morning | 04:02 |
| lcuk | johnx, i do when properly prepared for it | 04:02 |
| johnx | mornin' Termana | 04:02 |
| lolloo | rain only here | 04:03 |
| lolloo | boho | 04:03 |
| johnx | same here now | 04:03 |
| johnx | the forcast for the next 7 days just shows the rain icon :| | 04:04 |
| lolloo | hehehe depressing | 04:04 |
| johnx | been saying that since end of november, but that's business as usual here | 04:04 |
| johnx | snow would be a nice change | 04:05 |
| lolloo | I agree, send me some snow please | 04:05 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, resend liqcalendar to the repos | 04:05 |
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| GAN900 | Snow | 04:07 |
| GAN900 | What's that? | 04:07 |
| johnx | GAN900, the reason I have an AWD car | 04:07 |
| Termana | I wholeheartedly agree. You can send me some snow. We (basically) don't get it here :p | 04:07 |
| GAN900 | I might rain this weekend. | 04:08 |
| MohammadAG | I think it's banned here | 04:08 |
| GAN900 | s/I/It/ | 04:08 |
| MohammadAG | they confuse it with cocaine you see | 04:08 |
| infobot | GAN900 meant: It might rain this weekend. | 04:08 |
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| Termana | MohammadAG, heh | 04:08 |
| johnx | MohammadAG, must be hard to find flour and sugar ... | 04:08 |
| MohammadAG | johnx, well, there's brown sugar and | 04:09 |
| * MohammadAG thinks | 04:09 | |
| MohammadAG | wholegrain flour? | 04:09 |
| MohammadAG | I hate you :P | 04:09 |
| GAN900 | Unbleached flour. | 04:09 |
| johnx | :D | 04:10 |
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| lolloo | hehe | 04:11 |
| MohammadAG | Rain!!! About freaking time | 04:14 |
| lolloo | wow long time eh? | 04:15 |
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| lolloo | I bet it wont last long like here. | 04:16 |
| MohammadAG | it's prolly only today/night | 04:16 |
| MohammadAG | no snow I guess | 04:16 |
| MohammadAG | anyways, night | 04:17 |
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| johnx | night MohammadAG (and if you want rain, just head my way) | 04:17 |
| lolloo | free ticket? | 04:18 |
| johnx | the rain is free. room+board are extra | 04:18 |
| lolloo | hehehe | 04:18 |
| lcuk | johnx, you could email some to him | 04:18 |
| lolloo | packaging will suffice | 04:19 |
| johnx | "attachment too big, limit is 3 inches of rain per message" | 04:19 |
| lolloo | hehe | 04:19 |
| lolloo | thats look like MSN email | 04:19 |
| lolloo | limitation on everything! | 04:20 |
| lcuk | johnx, span the rain over multitple messages? | 04:20 |
| lcuk | just a light shower, followed by a persistent downpour | 04:21 |
| johnx | I'll just put it up on my website | 04:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | moo | 06:29 |
| Termana | moorning DocScrutinizer | 06:29 |
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| GAN900 | Wee, real sugar soda. What a concept. | 06:32 |
| * GAN900 stabs trade protectionism. | 06:33 | |
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| * DocScrutinizer prepares a latte macciato for Termana and GAN900 | 06:37 | |
| GAN900 | Nooo . . . bedtime | 06:38 |
| Termana | Sounds lovely to me :p | 06:38 |
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| Termana | Also, Ubuntu sucks my balls. 10.10 keeps crashing RANDOMLY, and displaying an error message that I've found out actually has NOTHING to do with why it's crashing. I think it's time to switch to another distro, I can't take much more of Ubuntu's bullshit | 06:40 |
| johnx | Termana, what are you thinking of switching to? | 06:40 |
| johnx | (also, obligatory "works for me") | 06:40 |
| nox- | if crashes are really random it might also just be some hw issue | 06:42 |
| nox- | bad ram bad psu bad board you name it | 06:43 |
| lolloo | naaah just format | 06:43 |
| johnx | (and yes, sometimes HW problems can be triggered more by one OS version than another) | 06:43 |
| johnx | one component overheating can cause fun problems as well | 06:44 |
| nox- | yeah forgot overheating | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | opensuse, WFM. I never got the drive with Shuttleworth's semi-proprietary shit | 06:44 |
| nox- | didnt `ms' just buy out novell? | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahaha | 06:45 |
| nox- | or some `investor'... :) | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | Icouldntbotherless | 06:45 |
| ieatlint | might i suggest http://ubuntuce.com/ or http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/ | 06:47 |
| ieatlint | they're both awesome | 06:47 |
| ieatlint | HML is the shit | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | hannahmontana \o/ | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://xkcd.com/424/ so much for my notion about ubuntu | 06:48 |
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| nox- | hehe | 06:49 |
| luke-jr | nox-: Ubuntu is infamous for having hardware problems | 06:49 |
| ieatlint | haha | 06:50 |
| ieatlint | i still love the xkcd comic about that openssl patch | 06:50 |
| ieatlint | http://xkcd.com/221/ | 06:50 |
| nox- | yeah thats one's a classic | 06:50 |
| luke-jr | not as classic as the sudo one | 06:51 |
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| ieatlint | dunno, 221 is awesome because of what it was mocking | 06:52 |
| ieatlint | sudo isn't funny by itself, but them removing a salt in a random number generator on an cryptography lib is | 06:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | 221 is annoying as there's no RFC1149.5 | 06:53 |
| ieatlint | so bitter :P | 06:53 |
| johnx | the fact that you actually went looking for RFC1149.5 just made that comic funnier to me :) | 06:55 |
| luke-jr | johnx: who wouldn't? | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | pah, I know 1149 by heart - don't even have to look it up | 06:56 |
| luke-jr | 1149 is IP over aviation, tho | 06:56 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, huh. I just kinda figured that any RFC ending in .5 was obviously a joke ... | 06:57 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: 1149 is a joke w/o ending in .5 | 06:57 |
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| ieatlint | 1149 is legit... i've seen it done | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 06:57 |
| nox- | haha | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | with | 06:58 |
| ieatlint | carrier pigeons | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | SYN & ACK/NAK? | 06:58 |
| ieatlint | i don't think they did more than a SYN and an ACK actually | 06:58 |
| luke-jr | http://www.xkcd.com/832/ is actually useful | 06:59 |
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| ieatlint | it did stray from the spec slightly too, they didn't duct tape it to the bird | 06:59 |
| luke-jr | I think I just decided I'm always going to be X | 06:59 |
| johnx | luke-jr, for certain values of "useful" | 07:00 |
| luke-jr | hehe | 07:00 |
| luke-jr | more useful than other xkcd for sure | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | wow, 832 is awesome | 07:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | haha, story of my life http://www.xkcd.com/827/ | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, not exactly | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 07:18 |
| Termana | johnx, haven't thought about it. I'm just pissed off that it's doing it | 07:18 |
| Termana | Maybe I'll buy a Mac and go OS X! :P | 07:19 |
| johnx | Termana, the nice thing about linux is the ability to (usually) figure out *why* it's doing whatever it is | 07:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | except for random reboots on diablo | 07:19 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, that comes down to the watchdog, right? | 07:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly | 07:20 |
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| Jay_BEE | hola | 07:21 |
| Termana | Or maybe I'll grow a big beard and go *BSD | 07:21 |
| Termana | hey Jay_BEE | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | though I ran a remote shell with htop, and there's not been any runaway process or exceptional load at all | 07:21 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, and you tested to see if the reboots continued after disabling the watchdog? | 07:22 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer: Diablo will also randomly shut off if your battery is old | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: nope | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: standby off battery >2days, with WLAN | 07:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, not the expected 8 days anymore | 07:23 |
| * DocScrutinizer swaps battery, got a "fresh" one from spare N810 anyway | 07:24 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | nevertheless I doubt it's battery related. Seems it's much more frequent when xchat is running | 07:24 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, uhm, then I would guess it's something causing the watchdog to trigger. I also wouldn't put much effort into figuring out why until you figure out that either is or isn't the direct cause of the reboots | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: kernel panic comes to mind | 07:26 |
| johnx | well, yeah. it could be, but you have a simple way to rule out the watchdog, and no really simple way to rule out a kernel panic | 07:27 |
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| johnx | it's the old "searching under the streetlight" thing: do the easy tests first | 07:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | grr, need an alarm @ 6:25 to warn me about disconnect pending | 07:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: kernel panic comes to mind | 07:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe a glitch in WLAN driver | 07:28 |
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| johnx | <johnx> well, yeah. it could be, but you have a simple way to rule out the watchdog, and no really simple way to rule out a kernel panic | 07:28 |
| johnx | * chx has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | 07:28 |
| johnx | <johnx> it's the old "searching under the streetlight" thing: do the easy tests first | 07:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ack | 07:29 |
| * DocScrutinizer swaps battery NOW | 07:29 | |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer: why does your internet disconnect at 6:25 for? | 07:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | not 6:25, but 6:30-delta | 07:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | where delta is my router sysclock being fast | 07:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | 24h forced disconnect | 07:30 |
| Termana | so you purposely have your router reboot or something? | 07:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | a german thing all providers do | 07:30 |
| nox- | Termana, stupid german adsl isps disconnecting `everyone' after 24h | 07:30 |
| Termana | ah. righto | 07:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, I schedule it in router to keep it from drifting a few minutes every day | 07:30 |
| nox- | bbl | 07:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | another strange thing is it often reboots TWO times in a row, doing busy things for 2..4minutes then rebooting 2nd time. Feels like fsck | 07:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | / isn't filled up | 07:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | it not even got any syslog running afaik | 07:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | once I thought it's just xchat logs filling / ->reboot, but it reboots without xchat running, as well | 07:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | for all I can tell it might actually be a hw glitch problem, after 3+ years of 24/7 | 07:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | well, I just rebooted it with 'fresh' battery. You can tell how long it lasts, from this user vanishing from channel | 07:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | might be anything from minutes to months | 07:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it hits me I maybe should reflash the N810 :-P | 07:48 |
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| Termana | Engadget are a bunch of raging idiot lunatics. When reviewing the Nexus S and Android 2.3, they said this about copy and paste in Android 2.3 - "Funnily enough, a little cursor appears when you start selecting -- a holdover from Linux?" | 07:53 |
| johnx | Android isn't linux | 07:54 |
| johnx | at this point you could make a good argument for "forked from linux" | 07:54 |
| Termana | Do you think I was being sarcastic when I said they were lunatics? :P | 07:55 |
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| Termana | They obviously have no clue what they are talking about. Ever. | 07:56 |
| johnx | if you s/linux/traditional linux distros/ would you agree with it? | 07:57 |
| Termana | johnx - no? I don't agree with it in it's current form, and I wouldn't agree with it like that either. The cursor that appears in Android when you copy and paste obviously has NOTHING to do with and is certainly not any "holdover" from the Linux the kernel or any GNU userspace | 07:59 |
| Termana | the Linux kernel* | 07:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | emgadget - pff | 08:05 |
| johnx | meh. they're reasonable most of the time | 08:05 |
| * DocScrutinizer glares at scanjet G2410 | 08:05 | |
| DocScrutinizer | >:-( | 08:05 |
| johnx | scanners are right up there with printers in the group of "technology that I kind of loathe" | 08:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~spank DocScrutinizer | 08:06 |
| * infobot bends DocScrutinizer over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on DocScrutinizer's pasty white buttocks. | 08:06 | |
| johnx | O_o; | 08:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | I thought "HP" is a equiv to "works with linux" | 08:06 |
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| johnx | buy products, not brands | 08:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, after it found it doesn't work at all with anything linuxoid, I wondered if it'd be smarter to google FIRST | 08:08 |
| johnx | I've been guilty of making the same mistake quite a few times in the past | 08:08 |
| johnx | the related mistake is: buy products for the features they have now, not the features that some promised future update may confer | 08:09 |
| johnx | learned that one after buying an original radeon with the promise of open source drivers being finished "any day now" | 08:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | haha, that's why this shit is collecting dust here since a year | 08:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | hoped it might get support eventually, but no luck | 08:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | now I'll trade it in for a random AP router | 08:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | the girl has winXP and doesn't need the router :-D | 08:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | can't be worse than my ZyXEL P660 | 08:11 |
| johnx | hilariously, the scanner my wife bought to use with her windows xp machine recently got linux drivers but never had win7 drivers released | 08:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahaha | 08:13 |
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| trx | can gtk and qt be mixed? (insert a gtk based edit box onto a qt widget) | 08:43 |
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| Gh0sty | luke-jr: can't explain it but your whatcelltower cause my phone to always want to connect to a network ... better yet: when its connected to a network it does not ask it but when the programm seems to be finished even it will try to reconnect to networks after my network connection is broken | 09:35 |
| Gh0sty | it retries like every minute or so ... | 09:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: that's the virus he put in there. You never should start binaries of questionable origin that aren't backed up by sourcecode | 09:37 |
| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: oh well I'm probably going to scratch my phone today anyway | 09:39 |
| Gh0sty | so I don't mind :p | 09:39 |
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| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: you are more the hardware guy as far as i know? :p | 09:40 |
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| Gh0sty | or you know also internals about the software? | 09:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, kinda | 09:40 |
| Gh0sty | we were talking here about the graphics chip yesterday | 09:40 |
| Gh0sty | and the way that its driver is closed source | 09:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/chip/core | 09:41 |
| Gh0sty | the capabilities of the chip are good enough to run meego but its only driver support which is missing? | 09:41 |
| Gh0sty | or is the chip underpowered? | 09:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hard to answer, I don't actually understand the question | 09:42 |
| Termana | Gh0sty, what are you talking about? the graphics chip has support in MeeGo | 09:42 |
| Gh0sty | well people are cursing about the fact that the chip does not do 3D or 2D well enough ... | 09:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw there's no graphics chip | 09:42 |
| Termana | Or a better question, who were you talking to this about? | 09:43 |
| Gh0sty | something SGI which is closed source? | 09:43 |
| * Termana gets the rubber mallet out | 09:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer | it the gfx core in OMAP SoC | 09:43 |
| Gh0sty | ok then I don't understand the hardware architecture :p | 09:43 |
| Gh0sty | is there actually no block diagram then? :p | 09:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's a complete schematics | 09:44 |
| Gh0sty | ah really? let me google that | 09:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic | 09:44 |
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| Termana | DocScrutinizer: I hate to argue semantics, but isn't it still technically a chip? Just because it's soldered on (or whatever) on to the SoC shouldn't change that | 09:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a sub-block on the CPU-et-al die | 09:45 |
| lcuk | its actually better to describe it as a specialised core | 09:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | so, colloquially it's the same "chip" as CPU and a lot of other things | 09:46 |
| Gh0sty | # Integrated POWERVR SGX™ graphics core with OpenGL ES® 2.0 and OpenVG™, support. | 09:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a System ona Chip | 09:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | SoC | 09:46 |
| Gh0sty | thats the one they were talking about yesterday i think | 09:46 |
| Gh0sty | this part is a closed driver | 09:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, it's a core, no chip | 09:47 |
| Termana | I just always thought the SoC meant the whole board. But I guess that would be System on a Board :p | 09:47 |
| Gh0sty | well this core is powerful enough to run the 3d candy which meego wants? | 09:47 |
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| Termana | thought that* | 09:47 |
| Gh0sty | Termana: well in fact as I read it now its system on a chip ... :p | 09:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: I got no idea what meego wants | 09:47 |
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| Gh0sty | so multiple cores put together on 1 single chip which are closely linked | 09:48 |
| Gh0sty | just like they want to do now from intel and such | 09:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's caled OMAP3430 | 09:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_CPU | 09:49 |
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| Termana | Gh0sty, yes it is fine for MeeGo. Whoever has been complaining that it isn't suitable for MeeGo hasn't used it (more so using the driver available for MeeGo) | 09:49 |
| Gh0sty | well it was mostly luke-jr who was ... how should I put it | 09:50 |
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| Gh0sty | starting a bit of a rant like maemo is dead and meego will never be supported on n900 officially | 09:50 |
| lolloo | MeeGo awesome | 09:50 |
| Gh0sty | so you throw away your money by buying an n900 now | 09:51 |
| lolloo | n900 is cheap | 09:51 |
| Gh0sty | lol | 09:51 |
| Gh0sty | now it is maybe | 09:51 |
| lolloo | I would by three if i want | 09:51 |
| Termana | I see | 09:51 |
| Gh0sty | I payed mine 500 eur | 09:51 |
| Termana | Gh0sty, it depends on how you interpret "officially" I guess | 09:51 |
| SwedeMike | buying a used n900 might make sense though | 09:52 |
| Termana | The N900 is currently $350 on Amazon | 09:52 |
| Gh0sty | well I consider even if the whole thing is a dead platform | 09:52 |
| Termana | (new) | 09:52 |
| lolloo | i bought new N900 for 300 dolar | 09:52 |
| Gh0sty | its still usable as a pocket linux pc :p | 09:52 |
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| lolloo | meego will support n900 officially | 09:52 |
| Gh0sty | lolloo: yeah half a year after I bought mine (its an import from the UK cause I could not even get it here) | 09:53 |
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| Gh0sty | the decreased the price by around 30% | 09:53 |
| lolloo | aha | 09:53 |
| * DocScrutinizer moans and hides away from upcoming "without meego it's a useless device" nonsense | 09:53 | |
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| lolloo | MeeGo is better competition to android | 09:53 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer: without meego it's a useless device!!!111!!!! | 09:53 |
| lolloo | and ios | 09:54 |
| chx | for less than 300 usd i got a mobile device that runs Drupal at an acceptable speed, runs Skype, IRC and SSH and even allows me to do phonecalls and has a GPS. That's a good deal. | 09:54 |
| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: well but you got to admit that not much developers are attracted by an OS which nokia is not going to continue soon ... (maemo) | 09:54 |
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| lolloo | meego= maemo6 | 09:54 |
| Gh0sty | oh yes ios | 09:54 |
| Gh0sty | that screws with my mind | 09:54 |
| SwedeMike | developing new applications for maemo doesn't make much sense, yes. | 09:54 |
| lolloo | meego = maemo 6 | 09:55 |
| Gh0sty | whoever invented that one ... surprised that cisco does not complain to apple yet :p | 09:55 |
| SwedeMike | Gh0sty: apple bought a license to use it. | 09:55 |
| Gh0sty | rly? :p | 09:55 |
| Gh0sty | lol | 09:55 |
| SwedeMike | http://blogs.cisco.com/news/cisco_and_apple_agreement_on_ios_trademark/ | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: sorry, I'm not contributing in this nonsense debate. Just one word: I'd happily use the linux system as of 5 years ago on my laptop, if it wasn't for kde3 being discontinued | 09:55 |
| Gh0sty | but anyway away from the rants: | 09:55 |
| Gh0sty | meego is not yet production ready | 09:56 |
| lolloo | meego is linux | 09:56 |
| lolloo | fully open | 09:56 |
| Gh0sty | so we're now in a twilight zone? | 09:56 |
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| lolloo | and better for tablets | 09:56 |
| lolloo | not like maemo 5 | 09:56 |
| Gh0sty | is it fully open? :/ | 09:56 |
| lolloo | yes | 09:56 |
| Gh0sty | like the phone part and stuff? | 09:56 |
| lolloo | yes | 09:56 |
| SwedeMike | "open" is one of the most misused words in the world. very subjective. | 09:56 |
| Gh0sty | hmm ok | 09:57 |
| SwedeMike | lolloo: is it "debian" open? | 09:57 |
| lolloo | yes | 09:57 |
| Gh0sty | but how about running meego then on the device | 09:57 |
| Termana | That's not true | 09:57 |
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| Gh0sty | last week I read you can't even charge the n900 yet when running meego? | 09:57 |
| lolloo | copy to MMC card | 09:57 |
| * DocScrutinizer YAAAWNS | 09:58 | |
| lolloo | latest version of meego is 3 days old | 09:58 |
| Gh0sty | or are people feeding gibberish into this channel? :p | 09:58 |
| lolloo | 1.1.8 | 09:58 |
| * RST38h drops a screwdriver intoDocScrutinizer | 09:58 | |
| lolloo | check out meego repo | 09:58 |
| Termana | lolloo, not only is the N900 MeeGo implementation not "debian" open, vendors won't be encouraged to make their MeeGo devices "debian" open | 09:58 |
| lolloo | for latest image | 09:58 |
| SwedeMike | lolloo: I doubt there won't be closed components, just like there is on N900 | 09:58 |
| lolloo | maybe gfx driver will be closed | 09:59 |
| Gh0sty | is there any downside onto running it from mmc card? | 09:59 |
| lolloo | its bad for buisness to make fully open | 09:59 |
| SwedeMike | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 "Due to the use of closed components in the hardware adaptation, this team cannot run fully in the open." | 09:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/from mmc card// | 09:59 |
| lolloo | competition will steal ideas | 09:59 |
| SwedeMike | lolloo: ah, so it's not debian open after all. | 10:00 |
| lolloo | nokia dont want competition stealing | 10:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolloo: stop talking BS | 10:00 |
| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: ? enlighten me? | 10:00 |
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| lolloo | DocScrutinizer, ur best in maemo | 10:00 |
| lolloo | meego is another talk. | 10:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lolloo: so I suggest you take your talk there | 10:01 |
| lolloo | yes but I wish you come help too | 10:01 |
| Gh0sty | ok thats what I just realised ... DocScrutinizer does not like it here :p | 10:02 |
| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: mind if I ask what your personal opinion is about meego then? | 10:02 |
| lolloo | hehe | 10:02 |
| Termana | Yeah, DocScrutinizer comes here because I manipulate and force him to, he absolutely doesn't do it on his own free will and like to come here | 10:02 |
| Gh0sty | you can also pm it to me if you dont want it public | 10:02 |
| lolloo | hehe | 10:02 |
| Gh0sty | and I'm not joking ... | 10:03 |
| lolloo | haha | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | meego is an OS trageted at Nokia's next smartphone series, and not useable on a day by day basis for the next >6 months | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it's maximum boring to me | 10:03 |
| lolloo | nop | 10:03 |
| lolloo | smartphone and tablets and laptops | 10:03 |
| Gh0sty | why is it boring? :/ | 10:03 |
| johnx | lolloo, there's a tablet UX again? | 10:03 |
| lolloo | atom based intel cpu | 10:03 |
| lolloo | also arm cpu | 10:04 |
| lolloo | its the next big thing for nokia and intel | 10:04 |
| Gh0sty | yeah yeah yeah | 10:04 |
| lolloo | to blow away competition | 10:04 |
| Gh0sty | heard that marketing blabla | 10:04 |
| Gh0sty | I don't like marketing :p | 10:04 |
| lolloo | even AMD is joining the force | 10:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | take it to #meego please! | 10:04 |
| lolloo | so it's intel+amd+nokia | 10:05 |
| lolloo | = MeeGo | 10:05 |
| Gh0sty | lolloo: its ok stop it here | 10:05 |
| Gh0sty | i joined meego as well | 10:05 |
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| Gh0sty | you can continue there | 10:05 |
| lolloo | maemo guys should join us too | 10:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | why? | 10:06 |
| johnx | lolloo, the interested ones have | 10:06 |
| lolloo | no point in making another maemo apps now | 10:06 |
| * RST38h notices that pretty much any available information on Meego can be found with google search | 10:06 | |
| lolloo | start making apps for meego | 10:06 |
| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: what is your daily occupance infact? :p | 10:06 |
| RST38h | it is allin the open | 10:06 |
| Gh0sty | you are an embedded developer or something? | 10:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolloo: stop talking BS! | 10:07 |
| lolloo | its not BS | 10:07 |
| lolloo | MeeGo 1.2 is near | 10:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | so WHAT? | 10:07 |
| lolloo | for netbooks, phones, laptops | 10:07 |
| Gh0sty | lolloo: I have to agree with DocScrutinizer ... since meego is NOT ready for N900 ... I want my phone to work right now ... not in 6 months! | 10:07 |
| johnx | lolloo, I'm already hacking on meego stuff and you're still annoying | 10:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolloo: if you come here to rant about maemo being useless then piss off | 10:08 |
| RST38h | Doc: I have fixed lolloo guy by the way | 10:08 |
| RST38h | Doc: /ignore does wonders | 10:08 |
| johnx | lolloo, the best thing you can do is lead by example | 10:08 |
| chx | you think meego will be ready in six months? | 10:08 |
| Gh0sty | and screw all other devices, I have my n900 now, I want it working the way I want it, thats what open source stands for in my mind ... not that the phone forces me to change my ways ... | 10:08 |
| chx | if wishes had wings... | 10:08 |
| * Termana sets mode +o Termana | 10:09 | |
| * johnx hears crickets chirping ... | 10:10 | |
| Gh0sty | ok back to maemo now :p | 10:10 |
| lolloo | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.80/1.1.80.9.20101207.1/handset/images/ | 10:10 |
| lolloo | this is latest iamge for N900 | 10:10 |
| lolloo | image* | 10:10 |
| lolloo | its dated 7 december | 10:10 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 10:10 | |
| lolloo | try it out guys | 10:10 |
| johnx | lolloo, please stop talking, for your own good | 10:10 |
| Termana | Here comes the real thing | 10:10 |
| *** lolloo was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) | 10:11 | |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 10:11 | |
| Gh0sty | according to luke-jr its not possible to retrieve the cell you are connected without activating the gps | 10:11 |
| Gh0sty | is that right? | 10:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | not sure about it | 10:11 |
| Termana | I think that's wrong | 10:11 |
| RST38h | probblynot | 10:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's netmon which will tell you the CID | 10:12 |
| RST38h | cell id hasnothingto dowith gps | 10:12 |
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| Gh0sty | he said that since the phone part is closed there is no way to get it without activating the gps | 10:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's pnatd and some AT cmd to get CID info | 10:12 |
| Gh0sty | but then again i am not a developer so is there another way? :p | 10:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: ^^^ | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: ^^^^ | 10:13 |
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| Gh0sty | what I was thinking about yesterday is a binary (we called it "whatcelltower") which just returns the CID | 10:13 |
| Gh0sty | but since I'm not a code guru I'm afraid ... that is outside of my capabilities | 10:14 |
| Gh0sty | anyone can fix me such a thing? | 10:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: xterm: pnatd<enter> | 10:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | google 3gpp at cmds | 10:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or simply install netmon | 10:15 |
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| Gh0sty | my idea is to implement the same functionality I have on my E65 (symbian) with some programm ... | 10:16 |
| Gh0sty | I now use alarmed that it turns off my modem when it's say 22h | 10:17 |
| Gh0sty | I wanna sleep, not get calls ... :p | 10:17 |
| * DocScrutinizer sighs | 10:17 | |
| Gh0sty | but ... when I'm not yet home ... it should not turn it off yet | 10:18 |
| Gh0sty | for obvious reasons :) | 10:18 |
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| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: what? :p | 10:18 |
| Gh0sty | I am a linux sysadmin and my lifestyle is: script once ... never do again (by hand) | 10:19 |
| ShadowJK | CellID, LAC and the other things are sent out on dbus when they change | 10:19 |
| Gh0sty | well I would just set alarmed to run at 22h a script | 10:19 |
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| ShadowJK | Maybe luke meant translating CellID into a location. I think the location subsystem just asks a nokia server for that info | 10:20 |
| Gh0sty | check if cell = home -> turn off the modem | 10:20 |
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| Gh0sty | if cell != home -> some backof algorithm which polls every ... 15 minutes or so to see if I'm home | 10:20 |
| johnx | Gh0sty, why not use your home wifi network as the trigger instead? | 10:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: do you read any of the answers posted here? or do you monologue on | 10:21 |
| Gh0sty | home wifi is not always on and then you need to enable wifi ... which drains battery | 10:21 |
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| AnAnt_ | Hello, is it true that N900 phones do not support arabic language ? | 10:21 |
| Gh0sty | ShadowJK: possible that luke-jr misinterpreted my idea | 10:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | support is spare if any I guess | 10:22 |
| Gh0sty | interesting to know that cellID and LAC are sent on dbus :) | 10:22 |
| johnx | AnAnt_, Nokia doesn't officially support it, as far as I know | 10:22 |
| Gh0sty | that could have some nice fixes for my second part of the idea ... | 10:23 |
| Gh0sty | the application on the E65 also could switch to other profile when entering a cell and leaving a cell | 10:23 |
| Gh0sty | for example I fixed the cells around our cinema in town ... it goes directly into meeting mode profile ... | 10:24 |
| AnAnt_ | johnx: how about non-officially ? | 10:24 |
| Gh0sty | and a friend uses that for his bluetooth: when he's not @ work or @ home his bluetooth get enabled cause he's probably in the car ... with a bluetooth handsfree kit | 10:24 |
| johnx | AnAnt_, googling shows some results, but I don't use Arabic support, so I don't know how well it works | 10:25 |
| johnx | Gh0sty, so that when you're waiting for your friend outside the movie theater you'll miss their call telling you they'll be late? | 10:26 |
| Gh0sty | meeting mode vibrates :p | 10:26 |
| Gh0sty | and yes that is the downside perhaps but its perfectly acceptable to me :p | 10:27 |
| AnAnt_ | johnx: thanks | 10:27 |
| AnAnt_ | so, Maemo is Debian based, right ? | 10:28 |
| johnx | AnAnt_, not really | 10:28 |
| Gh0sty | hmmz I gotta read up some more on dbus it seems | 10:28 |
| AnAnt_ | huh ? | 10:28 |
| johnx | it uses dpkg/apt-get, but it doesn't follow debian releases | 10:28 |
| Gh0sty | each time I find some interesting stuff to do with the n900 ... dbus is the answer | 10:28 |
| AnAnt_ | so if I get a package from Debian, I cannot install it on Maemo ? | 10:28 |
| johnx | so you'll find different software, packaged differently | 10:29 |
| johnx | AnAnt_, that might work for a couple very simple packages, but probably won't work for anything graphical | 10:29 |
| johnx | you might also be interested in "easy debian" which is some kind of debian chroot for the n900 | 10:29 |
| AnAnt_ | I see | 10:30 |
| Gh0sty | haha easy debian :) | 10:31 |
| Gh0sty | nice | 10:31 |
| * Gh0sty is wondering what packages one would want extra from a debian on maemo) | 10:31 | |
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| Gh0sty | even the "obscure" things like iodine I've seen in repositories for maemo :p | 10:32 |
| johnx | Gh0sty, you haven't happened to see a screen package, have you? | 10:32 |
| AnAnt_ | Gh0sty: iodine ? | 10:33 |
| Gh0sty | tcp over dns | 10:33 |
| Gh0sty | or dns tunnels | 10:33 |
| SwedeMike | ip over dns | 10:33 |
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| Gh0sty | at a lot of places in europ you'll find hotspots which you have to pay for ... | 10:34 |
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| Gh0sty | usually these allow connections over dns | 10:34 |
| Gh0sty | if you have a box elsewhere with an iodine client listening on dns you can tunnel through such hotspots without paying | 10:35 |
| Gh0sty | the downside is the connection is very slow ... | 10:35 |
| Gh0sty | but hey ... for IRC for example thats just enough :p | 10:35 |
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| Gh0sty | hmm lemme see there is no screen in the repos? :o | 10:36 |
| johnx | uhm, never mind | 10:36 |
| johnx | obviously I'm crazy, since now that I look I already have it installed ... | 10:36 |
| Gh0sty | lol | 10:36 |
| johnx | guess the mind really is the first thing to go ... | 10:37 |
| Gh0sty | happened to me last week too :p | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: http://www.ctiforum.com/standard/standard/etsi/0707.pdf 7.2 p38; pnatd AT+CREG=2 \n AT+CREG? | 10:37 |
| johnx | it's in tools, I didn't take the plunge to turning on the tools repo until recently | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | +CREG: 2,1,"CA66","A002" | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: probably there's an even btter AT cmd than +creg | 10:38 |
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| Gh0sty | if what ShadowJK says is true it should be available through DBUS | 10:38 |
| Gh0sty | so I'll have to look into that ... | 10:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, but that's async, means you need to monitor dbus and keep track. You wont see this msg on dbus at 22:00:00 | 10:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's sent on dbus when CID is *changing* | 10:39 |
| johnx | so you might want to look at dbus-scripts or something like that | 10:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I sugest you look into netmon source | 10:40 |
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| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: installing netmon as we speak :p | 10:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | dbus-scripting could set a flag file "at-home" to /tmp or whatever, when seeing correct cellID, and delete that file on seeing any wrong cellID | 10:41 |
| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: indeed thats what I was thinking | 10:41 |
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| johnx | then have alarmed call you at the appropriate time | 10:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | or you go direct way to cellmo and ask it via pnatd about current cellID | 10:42 |
| Gh0sty | but still I'd need help of someone who wants to make it a gui app :p | 10:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | with AT+CREG? or any beter siuted command | 10:42 |
| Gh0sty | but ok the info you gave me guys is great news! | 10:43 |
| lardman | morning all | 10:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: my fee is 70bucks/h | 10:43 |
| Gh0sty | since luke told me that it would require worse procedures :p | 10:43 |
| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: you can make it in 1 h? :p | 10:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably yes, maybe 2 | 10:43 |
| Gh0sty | hmm thats a little too much :p | 10:44 |
| Gh0sty | or wait | 10:44 |
| Gh0sty | bucks is dollar or euro? :p | 10:44 |
| johnx | those two numbers are more reasonable then you'd hear from just about anyone else | 10:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, and doesn't cover the overhead for shipping and invoice writing | 10:44 |
| AnAnt_ | anyone tried installing Ubuntu on N900 ? | 10:44 |
| Gh0sty | ubuntu for crying out loud :o | 10:45 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer: shipping :p | 10:45 |
| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: shipping? :o | 10:45 |
| AnAnt_ | Gh0sty: ? | 10:45 |
| Gh0sty | I would even like it to be opened :P | 10:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | reas that as "I'm not interested" | 10:45 |
| AnAnt_ | Gh0sty: I'm not a native english speaker, so I don't understand the expression | 10:45 |
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| srbaker | heya folks | 10:46 |
| Termana | what DocScrutinizer means by "shipping and invoice writing" is "beer and curry fund" | 10:46 |
| Gh0sty | AnAnt_: what would you like to do with ubuntu on n900 | 10:46 |
| srbaker | is there a list of hardware that runs latest maemo? | 10:46 |
| Termana | srbaker, the N900 | 10:46 |
| Gh0sty | its not optimized for running on a phone like system | 10:46 |
| AnAnt_ | Gh0sty: run apps that I am used to | 10:46 |
| Termana | and the Zoom II but I doubt you have one of those | 10:46 |
| johnx | AnAnt_, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ARM/n900 | 10:46 |
| srbaker | Termana: are they unlocked? or easy to get unlocked? | 10:47 |
| Termana | srbaker, what? The N900 | 10:47 |
| johnx | srbaker, the N900 or Zoom II? | 10:47 |
| Termana | It is unlocked | 10:47 |
| srbaker | the n900 | 10:47 |
| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: those 70 bucks is dollar? | 10:47 |
| Termana | srbaker, http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N900-Unlocked-Computer-Touchscreen/dp/B002OB49SW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=mobile&qid=1292057269&sr=1-1-catcorr | 10:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | those 70bucks is gold nuggets | 10:48 |
| srbaker | so i don't have to do anything to load my own stuff on it? | 10:48 |
| Termana | All N900's are unlocked | 10:48 |
| srbaker | that would be awesome | 10:48 |
| Termana | Yes, it's "unlocked" in that sense as well | 10:48 |
| Gh0sty | nono that IS awesome :p | 10:48 |
| srbaker | okay | 10:48 |
| srbaker | that sounds totally awesome. | 10:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: I was silly enough to offer that dumping quotation, you missed your choice to take me by the word | 10:49 |
| srbaker | i think i'm going to ditch my Nexus One | 10:49 |
| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: I don't mind :) | 10:49 |
| Gh0sty | its clearly not your cup of soup so if you gotta make something against your will ... :p | 10:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | I toldya about several valid ways to approach the problem yourself | 10:50 |
| Gh0sty | yes yes I am looking ... | 10:50 |
| Gh0sty | I first want to figure out some stuff like how to get it from dbus and from that netmon app | 10:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | I stated you're a scripting guy, at least one of my solutions was scripting compliant | 10:50 |
| Gh0sty | and then I'll decide on an approach | 10:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/I/you/ | 10:51 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: you stated you're a scripting guy, at least one of my solutions was scripting compliant | 10:51 |
| Gh0sty | yep you're right about that :) | 10:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | you went on whining for a GUI | 10:51 |
| johnx | Gh0sty, if you can script, you could probably knock up a python+Qt UI | 10:51 |
| Gh0sty | i'm still learning py | 10:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | you might have gotten away with asking me for a script PoC | 10:52 |
| Gh0sty | i'm still a hardcore bash guy :p | 10:52 |
| johnx | what do you script in usually? | 10:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | but a GUI?? no way dude | 10:52 |
| Gh0sty | johnx: I work on servers. usually require no gui ... | 10:52 |
| Gh0sty | but in this case a gui would be a nice extra (I was just thinking out loud DocScrutinizer) | 10:53 |
| johnx | Gh0sty, do the sh bit, then post that working thing to t.m.o and see if you can find someone to write the GUI | 10:53 |
| johnx | but honestly, python isn't harder than sh | 10:53 |
| lardman | anyone here know how the QPushButton works in its deepest darkest depths? | 10:53 |
| srbaker | wow. i really like the n900 | 10:53 |
| srbaker | i'm assuming there are some binary blob drivers for the gsm and stuff, right? | 10:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: yeah! It executes binary commands in a thing called CPU | 10:54 |
| chx | srbaker: welcome to the club! we are in love with the N900/ | 10:54 |
| Termana | srbaker, not for the GSM, unless you include the blob you flash to the modem | 10:54 |
| Gh0sty | johnx: yes thats what I'm looking into right now ... but first gotta study dbus a bit ... my knowledge about dbus is very limited ... | 10:54 |
| Gh0sty | last week I found the dbus commands to turn off the modem without the wifi bits | 10:54 |
| Termana | srbaker, GSM userspace has been opened (well, technically not Maemo's, but ofono works) | 10:54 |
| johnx | srbaker, yeah, binaries for the GSM, the 3D stuff, and ... maybe something else I'm forgetting | 10:54 |
| lardman | DocScrutinizer: ok, let's move up a layer or two of abstraction to how it changes colour when it's pressed | 10:54 |
| Gh0sty | now lets try a trigger from dbus ... but I saw already some info around that | 10:54 |
| srbaker | okay. so besides firmware anything not open? | 10:54 |
| Termana | srbaker, BME | 10:54 |
| Gh0sty | srbaker: the phone parts | 10:55 |
| Termana | Gh0sty, WRONG | 10:55 |
| lardman | srbaker: most ui apps have a closed veneer | 10:55 |
| srbaker | what's BME? | 10:55 |
| lardman | ~bme | 10:55 |
| infobot | i guess bme is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME | 10:55 |
| lardman | battery management entity anyway | 10:55 |
| srbaker | ah | 10:55 |
| srbaker | okay. | 10:55 |
| srbaker | but mostly free/open | 10:55 |
| srbaker | that's good enough | 10:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: there's a thing called dbus-scripting. It's a comfy package to install | 10:55 |
| lardman | the underlying stuff is free, but the uis are closed, which is annoying | 10:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | configure it with a few files in /etc | 10:56 |
| lardman | srbaker: but you can always replace stuff, and Meego should be coming soon in a non-official capacity | 10:56 |
| srbaker | cool | 10:56 |
| srbaker | is there tethering support? | 10:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | srbaker: bme is a closed blob | 10:57 |
| lardman | So really, how is the QPushButton colour change implemented? Does it use events as I'm trying to work out if my Python scripting code is receiving events or not | 10:57 |
| Termana | srbaker, basically, it's free enough that you can load another distro on there - MeeGo, SHR, Debian, hell we have one person using Gentoo here | 10:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | google for jrbme | 10:57 |
| srbaker | cool. i'm a debian guy | 10:57 |
| lardman | srbaker: yeah I imagine so, no idea how mind you | 10:57 |
| johnx | srbaker, bt-dun, usb and wifi hotspot, though some people have trouble with hotspot I guess | 10:57 |
| johnx | srbaker, now, the other distros aren't all that *usable* day-to-day for non-hackers ;) | 10:58 |
| srbaker | wlel, i want to hak | 10:58 |
| srbaker | hack | 10:58 |
| Termana | johnx, that's not *entirely* true | 10:58 |
| srbaker | but i don't want to miss a call because i was fucking with my phone | 10:58 |
| srbaker | :P | 10:58 |
| lardman | well don't have HAM open ;) | 10:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | srbaker: that never works out | 10:59 |
| Termana | lardman, the rule of thumb for everyone is to install FAPMAN anyhow | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | blargh | 10:59 |
| Termana | lardman, it's faster than HAM and has a great name | 10:59 |
| lardman | Termana: yeah, shame it can't do autoupdates though | 10:59 |
| johnx | Termana, meaning Meego or one of the other things you listed? | 10:59 |
| lardman | Termana: in fact it's the backend that bring the N900 to its knees, as I've seen the same effect (though not so bad) with fapman too | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: ack | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | apt-worker-thread to be specific | 11:00 |
| Termana | johnx, I'm sure luke-jr would dispute that Gentoo is usable day-to-day. SHR nearly is with a couple of more things to be done to it. MeeGo, as soon as power management is added I expect the 1.2 release to be *OK* | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahaha | 11:01 |
| johnx | Termana, so that's "not-yet-but-soon" on all counts? | 11:01 |
| Termana | johnx, well I suppose :p | 11:01 |
| Termana | With probably different rates of soon :p | 11:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: s/*OK*/somewhat ok for a first show-off at a keynote (if you pray everything runs smoothly)/ | 11:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, I'm not even sure maemo is *OK* for a day by day usage | 11:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | still no cell broadcast support | 11:03 |
| * lardman waits for day-to-day usable Meego to hack on apps | 11:03 | |
| DocScrutinizer | for a first point that comes to mind | 11:04 |
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| lardman | anyone know how slot/signals are implemented in Qt C++? | 11:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | the whole cal-ui and cal-history and contacts blobs are so... eeeew | 11:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you talk about meego? being *OK*? on 1.2? | 11:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAH | 11:05 |
| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: I don't see that dbus-scripting package in my current repositories (I have all I think: extras, extras devel and extras testing? | 11:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 11:06 |
| Gh0sty | or are there more obscure out there? | 11:06 |
| Gh0sty | I see however something called dbus-script-extras but that appears a gui application by the description :p | 11:06 |
| johnx | Gh0sty, use apt-cache search instead of the app manager | 11:07 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer: Personally, I find Maemo perfectly fine for day-to-day use and MeeGo 1.2 assuming it had power management sorted out would be fine for me as well. | 11:07 |
| johnx | Termana, that makes you a hacker, hence the second part of my statement | 11:07 |
| Gh0sty | fapman does not see some apps | 11:07 |
| Gh0sty | ? | 11:07 |
| johnx | Gh0sty, dunno. try the command line | 11:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | dbus-scripts with 'gui' dbus-scripts-settings | 11:12 |
| Gh0sty | hmm the cli tools give a lot more indeed :p | 11:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | forget the gui, it's flawed | 11:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# apt-cache search '.*dbus-script.*' | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | dbus-scripts - Run scripts on system dbus activity | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | dbus-scripts-settings - A GUI configuration program for dbus-scripts. | 11:13 |
| Gh0sty | you meanth the package dbus scripts? | 11:13 |
| Gh0sty | yes ok that I see through cli indeed :) | 11:13 |
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| Gh0sty | was assuming you could see all stuff through fapman ... guess not :( | 11:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | forget fapman as well | 11:14 |
| Gh0sty | why? :p | 11:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno why I removed it after 20 minutes, but for sure there was a reason | 11:15 |
| Gh0sty | btw I just got a look at my sources.list | 11:15 |
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| Gh0sty | behind the extras it says fremantle-1.3 | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | normal | 11:15 |
| Gh0sty | behind all the other extras it just says fremantle | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 11:15 |
| Gh0sty | is that needed or not? | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | also normal, regrettably | 11:15 |
| Gh0sty | so I should leave it? | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | nokia decided the testing and devel repo isn't worth keeping a 1.2 compliant version, when moving on to 1.3 :-( | 11:16 |
| Gh0sty | oh but if I just put fremantle on the extras it'll work just fine? | 11:17 |
| Gh0sty | only pull in more stuff ? | 11:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why I never can go back to my 1.2 system completely, when eventually I upgrade to 1.3 | 11:17 |
| Gh0sty | or is that just symlinked? | 11:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | as my 1.2 system has several pkgs from devel that aren't available anymore, so restore will fail to intall them | 11:18 |
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| AnAnt_ | so you were saying that Debian binary packages aren't necessarily compatible with Maemo , is that the same for source packages ? | 11:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | a very weird thinking about backwards compatibility | 11:18 |
| AnAnt_ | johnx: ^ | 11:18 |
| johnx | AnAnt_, yes | 11:19 |
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| lardman | AnAnt_: they can't be compatible unless they are for the correct arch, and even then packages for Debian arm may have a different abi | 11:19 |
| johnx | different software versions, different libraries available | 11:20 |
| johnx | different interfaces (no alsa, for example) | 11:20 |
| AnAnt_ | lardman: erm, Debian has arm & armel archs in their repository if I recall properly | 11:20 |
| johnx | GLES2 instead of GL | 11:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I heard it simply wasn't worth the effort for Nokia to keep the 1.2 devel & testing repo the same way they did for the extras repo | 11:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | which sounds... err... odd, to be polite | 11:21 |
| AnAnt_ | is gstreamer on Maemo ? | 11:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer growls | 11:22 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | now you got me started on this annoying topic again | 11:22 |
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| AnAnt_ | so Maemo is sort of a spin-off from Debian ? It's not like the Ubuntu-Debian relation where Ubuntu syncs from Debian from time to time, and try to keep the diff small | 11:23 |
| toadpole | hey anyone know a pc software like cutetube that'll allow me to queue up downloads? | 11:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wonder if maemo/Nokia can't afford to hire one single competent system administrator who has a clue about how to manage system version migrations | 11:24 |
| lardman | AnAnt_: yes Maemo uses GStreamer as the audio pipeline | 11:25 |
| lardman | AnAnt_: while it probably was based on Debian originall (iirc) (it uses debs afterall) there is no attempt to keep any compatibility now | 11:26 |
| johnx | AnAnt_, it's been split from debian since 2007 or earlier | 11:26 |
| lardman | I seem to remember that the 770 was binary compatible pretty much | 11:27 |
| lardman | long time ago anyway | 11:27 |
| AnAnt_ | I see | 11:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what does ubintu? sync from debian? I wonder what that process might look like | 11:28 |
| AnAnt | DocScrutinizer: during the development of a new release, there is a phase in which Ubuntu syncs/merges from Debian | 11:29 |
| AnAnt | DocScrutinizer: but Ubuntu tries to minimize the merges by sending the patches to Debian | 11:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | "look here, we got a buntkuh file for xy.so with 800 lines, and a debian file for same driver, with 900 lines. OK let's use the debian then" or throw dice? | 11:30 |
| AnAnt | ? | 11:30 |
| AnAnt | I don't understand | 11:30 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, eh? | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ther's exactly one way to "sync" and that's called sending patches upstream | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you hardly can do it evry once in a while | 11:31 |
| bigbrovar | does anyone knows how I can get my gps coordinate from the N900. It only displays my location and the gps coordinate shows for a few secs and disappears. How can I get data about my gps coordinate? | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | we tried that on Openmoko, and it was a nightmare | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | bigbrovar: use any app that shows the lon/lat/alt values? E.G. location test app | 11:34 |
| thp | is it possible to hide received sms (from eventlog + notifications) and process them using scripts? | 11:35 |
| Termana | "ther's exactly one way to "sync" and that's called sending patches upstream" <- that's not true at all | 11:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | or probably any of the other perceived 50 apps that can do that | 11:35 |
| Termana | Another way you can sync is to start on the base, with a delta and eventually merge the updated base and sort back out your delta | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | thp: good question, seems somebody asked same thing yesterday | 11:36 |
| thp | DocScrutinizer: was there an answer? should i look into the irclogs? | 11:36 |
| bigbrovar | DocScrutinizer: I have no idea I just want to know if there is a way I can get my gps coordinate maybe some command I can run which would display this | 11:36 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer: for example - Android's Linux kernel does this, it is also the official Ubuntu process, the fact that they also merge things back upstream is irrelevant to the syncing process of Ubuntu | 11:37 |
| thp | sivang: ping | 11:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | thp: the answer was... unclear. I guessed I heard about some app triggering device erase on revception of a secret key sms | 11:37 |
| johnx | bigbrovar, open up app manager. search for the word location | 11:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | or the word gps | 11:38 |
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| bigbrovar | johnx: DocScrutinizer I would do that thanks | 11:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | thp: so yes there seems to be a way | 11:39 |
| thp | DocScrutinizer: thanks :) | 11:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | but it's rather unclear what hat way would look like | 11:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | thp: for the hiding part, that might be even more obscure | 11:42 |
| thp | i'm thinking of a twitter wall app, just that posting is done via sms (i.e. "sms wall") | 11:42 |
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| thp | and that should ideally run directly from tv out, so i'd like to hide notifications and process the incoming events and display it in the app | 11:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess it's hard to intercept the inbound SMS before it triggers all sorts of evens somewhere inside some Nokia proprietary blob that deals with SMS | 11:43 |
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| thp | i mean, patching hildon-desktop to hide *all* notifications surely does the trick, but I don't want to go that far | 11:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | you maybe can completely disable the process that usually deals with SMS (rtcom-*-foo), and get rid of notifications etc for *all* SMS | 11:44 |
| lardman | Anyone familiar with power kernel here? I'd like to install u-boot with it, but I have version 46 | 11:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | umm, that's a problem mostly related to uBoot, not to pk | 11:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | uBoot has to offer some tool to merge itself on head of kernel | 11:47 |
| thp | found something for hiding the notifications: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=821709&postcount=5 | 11:47 |
| lardman | I'm just wondering if there's a way to install pk+uboot | 11:47 |
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| Jay_BEE | lardman: i don't think a separate uboot package exists for pk, so you will need to install pk 45 to get uboot | 11:49 |
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| lardman | I see u-boot-for-power-kernel in the repo? | 11:50 |
| alterego | If you prepare the kernel you can make any kernel uboot enablleed. | 11:50 |
| lardman | what do you mean by prepare? | 11:50 |
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| Jay_BEE | [01:49]<lardman>I see u-boot-for-power-kernel in the repo? <-- O RLY? but then I don't have extra-devel enabled... | 11:52 |
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| lardman | I'm just loathe to run random apps with kernel in the name if I don;'t know what they do ;) | 11:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thp: thanks - bookmarked :-D | 11:57 |
| maybeHere | http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/photogalleries/100524-new-species-handfish-walk-science-pictures/#/new-handfish-species-pink_20881_600x450.jpg deep ones! | 11:58 |
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| * Jay_BEE fires up HAM to find u-boot for power-kernel | 12:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: as mentioned above, uBoot is plumbed to head of kernel partition in NAND. So you need to somehow create a image file consisting of 1)uBoot, and 2)your preferred kernel, and flash that. On uBoot howto/faq this process should be described | 12:00 |
| lardman | yeah I've just read that stuff on TMO | 12:00 |
| lardman | along with warnings about hw revisions | 12:00 |
| lardman | I think I'll just see if I can find v 45 and install that rather than messing about and creating my own | 12:01 |
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| alterego | why are copies from emmc to sd so fscking slow | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | bug | 12:01 |
| alterego | Is it faster with the file manager than with cp? | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsckng slow is a euphemism | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | every now and then they literally freeze your device | 12:02 |
| alterego | yeah | 12:02 |
| alterego | I get maybe 1M ever 4 seconds | 12:03 |
| alterego | with cp | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems thing go bonkers as soon as filesize to cp > free memory * N | 12:03 |
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| alterego | Heh | 12:04 |
| alterego | I wonder if dd would be better | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | where N is any factor 0<N<50 | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | rsync is said to be better, when given a bandwidth parameter | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | dd also froze my device | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc | 12:05 |
| alterego | you can do that with dd though right? | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe dd with a small bs is ok. Never tested it | 12:06 |
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| alterego | I might give it a go in a bit. | 12:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's somehow related to concurrent access, free memory, and swap | 12:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: please report back on your findings | 12:07 |
| alterego | will do | 12:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | this being a major PITA | 12:07 |
| alterego | indeed | 12:08 |
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| alterego | I'd really like pv about now ^.^ | 12:09 |
| Jay_BEE | hmm... new version of mhs | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | pv? | 12:09 |
| alterego | pv measures throughput through a pip | 12:10 |
| alterego | ~pipe | 12:10 |
| infobot | somebody said pipe was in a odd location as well, but i dun mind much about that | 12:10 |
| alterego | cat some file | pv | cat > somefile | 12:10 |
| alterego | would tell you bandwidth | 12:10 |
| alterego | You can also specify size to give you a progress indicator like say, wget. | 12:10 |
| alterego | It's very useful :) | 12:10 |
| alterego | I like to use it with nc :) | 12:11 |
| alterego | I get about 1M/s doing cp with root | 12:11 |
| alterego | Which is an improvement. | 12:12 |
| Jay_BEE | new mhs adds patches for usb tethering... *moves on* | 12:12 |
| alterego | What is this mhs you speak of? | 12:12 |
| Jay_BEE | mobilehotspot | 12:12 |
| alterego | Oh | 12:12 |
| alterego | great, now rm has blocked whilst deleting a file from mmc | 12:13 |
| alterego | s/mmc/micro sd/# | 12:13 |
| * Jay_BEE grabs the latest modRana while extras-devel is enabled... | 12:15 | |
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| alterego | I think 1M/s is the best I'm gonna get. | 12:16 |
| ShadowJK | I thought usb tethering was a out of the box feature ... | 12:16 |
| alterego | ShadowJK: it is ;) | 12:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: one version yes | 12:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: inverse version no | 12:18 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: would you be happy with my test results being based on: time dd blah blah ... | 12:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | i'd be happy on a general advice how to make a `cp -rA /media/mmc1/someGBofMP3 ~user/MyDocs/mp3` not completely freeze the device | 12:19 |
| ShadowJK | echo 1 >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness before copy | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | nota bene even the cp itself froze | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | might got fixed with any of the 1.3 kernel patches (I recall comments like "kernel OOPS after lots of IO") | 12:21 |
| ShadowJK | that results in reboot :-) | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 12:22 |
| ShadowJK | this cp issue is just mmc/sd slowing down to 50 kbyte/sec under non-sequential loads, which the emmc will be seeing under any kind of high IO pressure | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | what exactly does swappiness? | 12:23 |
| * alterego wonders why we have experimental qt but not qtm .. | 12:24 | |
| jacekowski | changes willingness of system to push data to swap | 12:25 |
| jacekowski | it works very closely with vfs_cache_pressure | 12:26 |
| ShadowJK | "It controls the level of page reclaim distress at which we decide to start reclaiming mapped pages." | 12:27 |
| * ieatlint has had alcohol | 12:27 | |
| ShadowJK | vfs_cache_pressure is mostly only relevant if you have large amounts of memory in slab... | 12:27 |
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| ieatlint | i've determined alcohol is good | 12:28 |
| alterego | Heh | 12:29 |
| alterego | Sometimes | 12:29 |
| ieatlint | and an excellent way to deal with politics | 12:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: after reading ShadowJK's citation the 4th time, I tend to agree and get me some as well | 12:29 |
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| maybeHere | ieatlint: most politicians are way ahead of you | 12:30 |
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| ieatlint | maybeHere: from what i've seen, not enough | 12:30 |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders to ask wikipedia about definition of "page reclaim distress" and the meaning of "we decide to start reclaiming mapped pages." | 12:31 | |
| ieatlint | i may not be christian, but xmas ales are awesome | 12:31 |
| * DocScrutinizer got a itchy feeling that above citation is an antinom | 12:32 | |
| * alterego wants to have a go at cross compiling a debian base system | 12:32 | |
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| alterego | Is there something like deboostrap that'll do it for me ^.^ | 12:33 |
| * alterego looks into dpkg-cross | 12:35 | |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, at 100 memory is more equal, at 1, it's roughly speaking cache that's considered less worthy and thrown away | 12:35 |
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| ShadowJK | At 100 in normal use there'll be an almt constant low level of swap activity going on. At 1 there'll be almost no swap activity until system really runs out of other stuff it can use | 12:36 |
| ShadowJK | a file copy is a pretty gigantic request for memory, at 100 it generates alot of swap activity, at 1 it will generate almost no swap activity | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, ok. Thought as much | 12:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so at 100 the idiot kswapd is swapping out cp's buffers instead of cp writing out to the real file | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe cp needs a patch to mark its buffers as not swappable? | 12:40 |
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| ShadowJK | no everything else except cp gets swapped out | 12:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | so cp should run just fine then | 12:41 |
| ShadowJK | why it doesn't respond, all the gui is no longer in ram | 12:41 |
| toresbe | hm, I managed to make my phone unbootable... | 12:41 |
| ShadowJK | yeah except emmc bandwidth is 50k/s, takes awhile to complete a 90Meg transaction at that speed :) | 12:42 |
| Termana | infobot, tell toresbe about flashing | 12:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that's not exactly the issue. When copying to eMMC form any other source, I get good bandwidth | 12:43 |
| ShadowJK | oh? | 12:43 |
| ShadowJK | like over network? doesn't count :) | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | bah | 12:43 |
| ShadowJK | and mass-storage-mode doesn't count either :) | 12:44 |
| toresbe | Termana: so... toresbe@cobol:~$ flasher-3.5 -x Downloads/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin --flash-only=kernel -f -R | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | case: cp via ass rage from uSD to eMMC -> freeze. cp via ass rage from uSD to external disk then to eMMC -> 12MB/s | 12:44 |
| * ShadowJK ponders making cp use fadvise() to hint the files are used once only | 12:44 | |
| toresbe | is that the right choice? | 12:44 |
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| ShadowJK | and untar big massive file emmc -> emmc = slow :) | 12:45 |
| toresbe | or will that cause my system to catch fir? | 12:45 |
| toresbe | ...e? | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | it won't work | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | VANILLA has no kernel to flash-only | 12:46 |
| jacekowski | you can fix part of a problem | 12:47 |
| jacekowski | set writeback times to high value | 12:47 |
| jacekowski | so it waits | 12:47 |
| toresbe | well, my problem is that I installed the power kernel, and now my multiboot configuration didn't recognize it | 12:47 |
| jacekowski | and then writes everything at once | 12:47 |
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| toresbe | so... how do I get my system booting again? :) | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | toresbe: yeah, multiboot is a bitch. Kernel anyway is found in *COMBINED* img, not in *VANILLA* | 12:48 |
| alterego | Well, looks like I can make a base debian system with hard fp support for the A8 :) | 12:48 |
| alterego | If I Can make it bootable today and boot it on the N900, I might seriously work on something. | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | toresbe: *VANILLA* is basically only eMMC aka MyDocs | 12:49 |
| toresbe | DocScrutinizer: many thanks :) | 12:49 |
| toresbe | I'll just boot the Combined kernel, transfer my home directory to the SDHC card, and then completely reflash the device... I think it could do with a fresh install... | 12:50 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: if I make decent progress, would you be willing to help me develop a debian system using meego components? ;) | 12:51 |
| toresbe | DocScrutinizer: (the PIM data files are in the home directory, right?) | 12:51 |
| MohammadAG | and /home(!) | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | home directory isn't affected by a standard rootfs flash | 12:51 |
| MohammadAG | /opt is cleared though | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | toresbe: (PIM) I think so | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway you should use backup app to do a proper such backup | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | better than just hoping for files in ~ | 12:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there are a few settings in fact that are stored in /etc et al, which will vanish on flashing rootfs | 12:54 |
| toresbe | kthx. :) | 12:55 |
| toresbe | weird. It just exits after telling me the release version. | 12:55 |
| toresbe | Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2101 | 12:55 |
| toresbe | NOLO version 1.4.14 | 12:55 |
| toresbe | Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR0 | 12:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | not all of those are backup'd by backup app either. E.g LED patterns from LED pattern editor most likely are gone | 12:55 |
| toresbe | and then immediately exits, and leaves the N900 to boot as usual. | 12:55 |
| MohammadAG | toresbe, windows? | 12:55 |
| toresbe | oooopie. I think I should be using -F rather than -x.. | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | I already wondered | 12:56 |
| MohammadAG | -F image -f | 12:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | toresbe: I also got big eyes looking at your prompt :-D | 12:58 |
| toresbe | ? | 12:59 |
| toresbe | Oh, the hostname? :) | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | your box called cobol? | 12:59 |
| toresbe | yeah, all my laptops are programming languages ending in -ol | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 12:59 |
| toresbe | my desktop/servers are fortran, joss, python, simula, apl, logo... | 13:00 |
| toresbe | I have a PDP-11 which of course has the hostname "basic"... :) | 13:00 |
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| Gh0sty | perhaps a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway ... something I've been wondering about since I bought the device | 13:02 |
| Gh0sty | can't we do IP over the usb connection? | 13:02 |
| toresbe | oooooh, it booted! \o/ | 13:02 |
| Gh0sty | in stead of connecting to wifi that I can ssh to it over the usb | 13:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: see wiki, usb-networking | 13:05 |
| jaska | shouldnt the pdp be "bliss"?:) | 13:05 |
| toresbe | jaska: no, that's one of my VAXen :) | 13:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | toresbe: you inherited all my hw museum? | 13:06 |
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| toresbe | More or less | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, got one of these as well? http://www.tentacle.franken.de/m80/index.html | 13:08 |
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| toresbe | DocScrutinizer: only a scaled-down relative. | 13:09 |
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| toresbe | Actually, that was lost in a move. But I do have the keyboard still.. with its literal key | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | never knew there were scale-downs | 13:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | except the windows-based emulator | 13:10 |
| toresbe | it may have been a very distant relative. but it was made by Siemens and the terminal is identical. | 13:10 |
| Jay_BEE | i wish there was an angry birds meetup nearby | 13:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | did it know /boot, /start <program name>, /stop <process number> etc? | 13:11 |
| MohammadAG | Jay_BEE, it'll end up as flame wars between iOS, Android, Symbian, and maemo users | 13:12 |
| Jay_BEE | hehehe so true | 13:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | toresbe: I used to code a lot in COBOL, when developing stuff for those M-series Siemens monsters | 13:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | in the 80s though | 13:14 |
| toresbe | nice | 13:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's why I got curious about your prompt | 13:14 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i've done that once | 13:25 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i mean cobol, and it was painful | 13:25 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yeah, cobol is awkward | 13:26 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | you need your special tricks to cope with it. e.g. ". note ." | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | othewise you always miss these important . | 13:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | also 8 used copy a lot | 13:29 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | I | 13:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | in the end I used a preprocessor plus my own data dictionary to manage the whole project's linkage sections | 13:32 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | and interanl variable definitions | 13:32 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | plus a lot of includes (external functions) written in assembler :-P | 13:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IF (a > b) THEN MOVE a TO c, ELSE MOVE b TO c . NOTE END-IF. | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | is something completely different than | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | IF (a > b) THEN MOVE a TO c. ELSE MOVE b TO c . NOTE END-IF. | 13:41 |
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| Jay_BEE | to bed I go.. zzz | 13:48 |
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| alterego | Okay, cross compiling glibc (same as latest ubuntu release) for arm cortex a8 with hardfp .. | 13:52 |
| MohammadAG | anyone got sources for an N900 screen? | 13:53 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: did you do ubuntu for N900? | 13:59 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, 9.10 yes | 14:00 |
| MohammadAG | it's not fully working, but it works | 14:00 |
| alterego | I'm working on cross compiling a 10.10 base with cortex a8 hardfp optimizations | 14:00 |
| MohammadAG | why not just use the precompiled image from ubuntu.com? | 14:01 |
| alterego | because hardfp will make it run faster | 14:02 |
| alterego | Hopefully a lot faster, | 14:02 |
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| alterego | With meego stack, I could call it meebuntu | 14:04 |
| alterego | Or meetu | 14:04 |
| alterego | I think meetu :) | 14:05 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 14:05 |
| alterego | It should be api and abi compatible with meego armv7hl | 14:05 |
| MohammadAG | or ubugo | 14:06 |
| MohammadAG | sounds awkward | 14:06 |
| MohammadAG | ubungo | 14:06 |
| alterego | I prefer meetu :P | 14:07 |
| MohammadAG | meethree | 14:08 |
| alterego | If only I had a decent internet connection :D | 14:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | source for screen? | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | metoo is copyrighted by me | 14:14 |
| Corsac | metoo | 14:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | MohammadAG: what is that screen source thing? | 14:17 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer-8, need a new screen | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ouch | 14:18 |
| MohammadAG | there's this black area in mine | 14:18 |
| MohammadAG | looks like water, not sure if it's water | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | shit | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | photo | 14:19 |
| * MohammadAG takes screenshot | 14:20 | |
| MohammadAG | :P | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | take your thumb out there, we don't want your fingerprint in that screenshot! Wait what did I say? | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | actually with that new technology MS has patented it would work: fingerprint reader | 14:23 |
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| * lardman devours 5 days' worth of advent calendar chocolates | 14:25 | |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | chocolate! roooaaaar | 14:27 |
| lardman | it's revolutionary, those master chocolatiers at Lindt have developed a chocolate that is almost energy neutral because it takes so much effort to unwrap them | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahaha | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | I first time encounter a chocolate dependency I am used for tobacco so far only. And not a single piece of chocolate around. grrrr | 14:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even messing up my emglish grammer, but maybe you got what I meant anyway :-D | 14:30 |
| lardman | :) | 14:30 |
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| * lardman downloads mmade | 14:31 | |
| lardman | or even madde | 14:31 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, http://i51.tinypic.com/zjz4zk.jpg | 14:34 |
| MohammadAG | zoom in on the bottom left corner | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | without chocolate? | 14:35 |
| lardman | Intel? | 14:35 |
| Corsac | important notice / intel | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: hmm, hardly anything to see | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | impossible to tell what it is | 14:36 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, you'll see a gray line | 14:36 |
| * MohammadAG curses the N8 | 14:36 | |
| MohammadAG | of all camera phones, you'd think it'd have manual effing focus | 14:37 |
| MohammadAG | looks better in meego :P | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | lemme put it that way: if it's really water, then you can fix it and don't need a new screen | 14:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if it's not water, then you will have to find out what's broken, as it's not reasonable to get a whole new screen | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | where screen == (LCD + touchpanel) | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | the tp is ~60EUR, the LCD ~90EUR iirc | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're better off to get a whole device, used maybe, for that money | 14:42 |
| MohammadAG | N8 doesn't pick it up :/ http://i53.tinypic.com/m9xe2t.jpg | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | MohammadAG: get some rice, cook it, eat it. Then put the N900 on a heater or in your oven, @60C | 14:45 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer-8, only photo it's best visible in, http://i56.tinypic.com/25hpch4.jpg | 14:46 |
| MohammadAG | it actually goes along the bottom of the screen, not on the corner | 14:47 |
| korhojoa | hm. i'd use silica gel and a desiccator | 14:50 |
| SpeedEvil | At room temperature - even with 0 humidity - water evaporates slowly. | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I recommend an oven at 60C or so. | 14:54 |
| korhojoa | true, but it doesn't carry the risk of damaging anything | 14:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Do check before you put it in that the oven is really at 60C, not more | 14:54 |
| korhojoa | also, regular oven at 60C, not likely | 14:54 |
| SpeedEvil | I've had the n900 operating at 60C | 14:54 |
| SpeedEvil | korhojoa: quite likely IME | 14:54 |
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| korhojoa | even the professional recirc ovens we use don't get even temperatures | 14:54 |
| SpeedEvil | korhojoa: Most go down to 40C, for use rising bread | 14:54 |
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| korhojoa | i didn't mean that the temperature is low, i meant that it's not stable | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 14:55 |
| korhojoa | i've also had mine at 60C | 14:55 |
| korhojoa | left it in the car for half an hour in qatar :/ | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Mine was in scotland, in the greenhouse. | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 14:56 |
| korhojoa | picked the thing up and almost burnt my hand | 14:56 |
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| korhojoa | yeah. but the problem with the conventional oven is the ir heat too | 14:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | Good points. | 15:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, you need to keep IR excessive radiation away from device. probably a good idea to place it inside a paper bag or box. OR simply place it into the air coming from your PC's fan, that's usually not too hot, and if you got a power monster it's still warm enough and for sure has no IR radiation | 15:03 |
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| korhojoa | not only does the temperature of the oven go 20 deg C to ~75 before the thermostat turns off and then it falls to around 50 before it clicks on again and goes up to around 70 again. repeat cycle. | 15:04 |
| korhojoa | DocScrutinizer, the computer fan is a good idea. | 15:04 |
| korhojoa | i use my computers regularily to dry clothes | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, 75° isn't dangerous yet. That's been taken into account when I suggested 60° | 15:05 |
| korhojoa | no, not saying 75 is dangerous, just not liking the cycling | 15:05 |
| korhojoa | plastic doesn't love that | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, I doubt that's water in MohammadAG 's screen. Probably mechanical defect from excessive pressure to the surface | 15:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this can destroy either spacers, or the polarization of the electrodes | 15:07 |
| korhojoa | the lcd has been compressed so that some of the crystals are damaged | 15:07 |
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| korhojoa | that was supposed to have a "?" at the end. | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are no crystals. But there are invisible spacers that keep a certain distance between bottom and cover glass | 15:08 |
| korhojoa | the screen isn't a lcd screen? | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | also there's a microstructure in the electrodes which I called polarization. If it gets deformed then the LCD won't work anymore | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can't break *liquid* crystals | 15:09 |
| korhojoa | well. you can, but they should just reassemble | 15:10 |
| korhojoa | also i thought it stood for a display that uses liquid and crystals, not liquid crystals | 15:10 |
| korhojoa | how wrong was i :D | 15:10 |
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| Choom | they're both liquid AND crystal at the same time | 15:15 |
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| Choom | electricity makes them change their patern which in turn changes the polarization of the light that passes through them | 15:16 |
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| BCMM | Choom: no, they are in a wholly separate phase of matter which is neither solid nor liquid | 15:23 |
| Choom | I never implied phases of matter | 15:23 |
| Choom | actually I did, I said liquid | 15:24 |
| BCMM | well, both liquid and crystal would imply something like slushy ice that contains both | 15:24 |
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| BCMM | whereas an LC is actually a separate non-classical state of matter | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | but technically it's a liquid | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | and can't break | 15:25 |
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| BCMM | no, it is not a liquid | 15:26 |
| BCMM | is a different phase of matter, with certain characteristics of a liquid | 15:26 |
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| BCMM | they can be fluids though | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | so what do you think I ment by "technically"? | 15:27 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer-8: the opposite of "sorta" | 15:27 |
| BCMM | they are sorta liquids, but technically not liquids | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | physically not a liquid, but technically they are liquid | 15:28 |
| BCMM | this is an odd use of technically | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm | 15:28 |
| BCMM | "liquid crystal" is usually classified as a state of matter, like solid, liquid or gas | 15:29 |
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| BCMM | they aren't both solid and liquid; they are in a state which has similarities with both | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | I handle them by same tools and methods I use for true liquids | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | same techniques | 15:29 |
| BCMM | rather like the way a conventional liquid has similarities with both a gas and a solid | 15:29 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer-8: you can also use plenty of models for both a gas and liquid | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | a model is physics, not technic | 15:30 |
| BCMM | oh, an actual physical tool | 15:30 |
| BCMM | i think we are disagreeing over the use of technically, actually | 15:31 |
| BCMM | you mean to say they are liquids for practical purposes, right? | 15:31 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, remind me why I should contribute to MeeGo when the stock apps don't build? | 15:34 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: ? | 15:39 |
| alterego | To submit patches to make them build :P | 15:40 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, idk what's wrong | 15:40 |
| MohammadAG | and stock apps should build | 15:40 |
| alterego | Under what environment? Are you trying to build it under their SDK? | 15:40 |
| MohammadAG | Package meegotouch was not found in the pkg-config search path. | 15:41 |
| MohammadAG | No package 'meegotouch' found | 15:41 |
| MohammadAG | yes, SDK | 15:41 |
| alterego | I presume you've not got libmeegotouch installed .. | 15:41 |
| MohammadAG | how do I install it? | 15:41 |
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| alterego | package manager presumably | 15:43 |
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| alterego | I think you should ask in #meego :P | 15:43 |
| alterego | ghey, can't change the armel arch tag without breaking glibc compilation. | 15:44 |
| alterego | Oh well, I'll use it for now | 15:44 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, #meego seems like TMO the II | 15:47 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, I expect them to know what madde is, since that's their default SDK | 15:47 |
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| MohammadAG | fail platform is fail | 15:48 |
| crashanddie | Gun that shoots bullets at mach 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezqoaHsGOuQ | 15:48 |
| alterego | no it isn't | 15:48 |
| alterego | Well, maybe for apps but not platform | 15:48 |
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| alterego | You probably need the platform sdk to build core apps | 15:48 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, when I asked for that I got a link to MADDE | 15:49 |
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| alterego | Heh | 15:49 |
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| xDaReaperx | Everywhere i go Facebook , gtalk , maemo .. everything looks dead | 16:08 |
| xDaReaperx | no ones on the internet | 16:08 |
| GAN900 | Sshhh | 16:09 |
| GAN900 | It's Saturday. | 16:09 |
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| xDaReaperx | lol okay ... | 16:34 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, tell that to the person who phoned at 8am on saturday morning | 16:39 |
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| rcg | i have a problem that the changelog for one of my packages is not updated properly.. any ideas what to do? | 16:42 |
| rcg | most probably ping X-Fade i suppose... | 16:42 |
| lcuk | rcg ? just update the changelog? | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | o/ lcuk javispedro | 16:44 |
| javispedro | morning | 16:44 |
| lcuk | \o | 16:45 |
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| * rcg1 curses his provider.. | 16:45 | |
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| rcg1 | just in case this was lost due to the reconnect: | 16:46 |
| rcg1 | i have a problem that the changelog for one of my packages is not updated properly.. any ideas what to do? | 16:46 |
| rcg1 | most probably ping X-Fade i suppose... | 16:46 |
| rcg1 | i.e. the changelog on the package website | 16:46 |
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| lcuk | rcg1, which package (give link to packages page where its wrong would help..) | 16:47 |
| rcg1 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/vumeter | 16:47 |
| lcuk | and what is wrong with it? | 16:48 |
| rcg1 | well the changelog is only displayed up to version 0.0.5 | 16:48 |
| javispedro | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/vumeter/0.10.1/ | 16:49 |
| javispedro | this one shows 0.10.1 changes only | 16:49 |
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| lcuk | and the 0.9 build is similar | 16:51 |
| lcuk | only showing change in that version | 16:51 |
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| rcg | sigh.. | 16:53 |
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| rcg | lcuk: sorry.. provider keeps disconnecting me :S | 16:56 |
| lcuk | rcg sounds like what happens with your changelog | 16:57 |
| lcuk | the "log" part of the name indicates you keep all the changes in that file | 16:57 |
| javispedro | http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2010-12-11/ | 16:57 |
| lcuk | and not clean it for every version | 16:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the log is only for 0.0.x versions | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | starting with 0.1.0 it stalls | 16:58 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, it does same on 0.9 too | 16:58 |
| rcg | lcuk: actually, i do this the same way also with other packages... this is the first one which fails in that way | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: ?? | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | it does what with 0.9? | 16:59 |
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| lcuk | rcg, well thats not the way that changelogs roll | 17:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I see versions in changelog on http://maemo.org/packages/view/vumeter/, from 0.0.1 .. 0.0.5. Next version is 0.1.0 and that's the first one missing | 17:00 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, look in the source packages | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | why? | 17:01 |
| lcuk | the changelog in 0.10 and 0.9 at least are both just a single entry | 17:01 |
| lcuk | and not a log of all history | 17:01 |
| rcg | afaik, i update the changelog for each version with the changes of that particular version and then the website/autobuilder whatever takes care of concatenating | 17:01 |
| rcg | thats how it worked out with all packages i uploaded so far | 17:01 |
| rcg | thats also how it worked out with versions 0.0.1-5 | 17:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, I guess somebody must have edited something, to make that version jump from 0.0.5 to 0.1.0 | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | the automatism would have created 0.0.6 | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess somethink broke during that process | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/ink/ing/ | 17:07 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: I guess something broke during that process | 17:07 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, well, I'm at work, so meh. :P | 17:07 |
| rcg | hmm.. just had a look at another package.. most probably i had a very big misunderstanding of how things should work and some robust mechanism in the autobuilder kept my pervious packages from failing in that way | 17:07 |
| rcg | will give that a try | 17:08 |
| GAN900 | Why do people seem to think modular mobile devices are a good answer. | 17:09 |
| rcg | i hope it doesn't mess things up more, though | 17:10 |
| SpeedEvil | You mean modular hardware? | 17:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Because they don't understand the costs. | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, and implications EE wise | 17:11 |
| SpeedEvil | It's OK for prototypes, where you don't care if the size, weight, and price double. | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 17:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ever wondered why iPhone's battery isn't 'modular' aka swappable? simple matter of size | 17:12 |
| BCMM | and not just because that device isn't supposed to be user-anything-able? | 17:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, you need a cover for the electronics to close it to battery compartment, you need a case on all sides of battery cell, plus you need a 4th layer called back cover that's user-removable | 17:15 |
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| obsidieth | whats the go with web2sms and conversations | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | for a fixed battery you save the first 3 layers of plastic completely, plus you don't need fabcy latches etc for the cover | 17:16 |
| obsidieth | my messages appear in there, but im not quite sure if messages i send aregoing through my web service or not. | 17:16 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: you can do it pccard style | 17:16 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: push it from side/bottom | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, will save one layer, maybe | 17:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | plus the fancy latches | 17:18 |
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| RST38h | Ahha! Riots! | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no way to delay that trouble coming every day [FZ] | 17:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiVFfOOm_GI | 17:21 |
| javispedro | morning RST38h | 17:21 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: And you add a seal, which can let in shit, or fall off. | 17:22 |
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| RST38h | mourning javispedro | 17:27 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I do suspect that the accelerometer does not work in some games for the other reason than bad calibration | 17:27 |
| javispedro | RST38h: x-plane does work a bit better | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: and this nice version as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naFQ7KG_nHg&feature=related | 17:28 |
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| RST38h | javis: XPlane worked for me before | 17:29 |
| RST38h | javis: Check out the Hawx, has got weird touch screen and steering problems | 17:30 |
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| RST38h | javis: Also check the Ground Effect, accelerometer broken there | 17:31 |
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| sivang | thp: pong | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | spot price of virgin that is | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | oops | 17:45 |
| sivang | thp: I have to reelase my screen session, mail me :) cheers | 17:45 |
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| MohammadAG | 32wd_to :/ | 18:06 |
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| rcg | lcuk: well, it was my fault to update the changelog properly. thanks for the hint. | 18:06 |
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| lcuk | rcg, \o | 18:07 |
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| NooBmonk3y | afternooooooooooon alls | 18:33 |
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| MohammadAG | fuck | 18:43 |
| MohammadAG | device storage full | 18:43 |
| MohammadAG | on a saturday | 18:43 |
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| Necc | fast question: if i want to make custom icon to my .desktop shortcut, what size of icons (.png files) do i need? | 18:54 |
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| MohammadAG | any, hildon should scale them down properly | 18:56 |
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| MohammadAG | just put them in /usr/share/pixmaps | 18:57 |
| NooBmonk3y | lol i musta gone wrong then :P | 18:57 |
| NooBmonk3y | as it's clipped healthchecks ;) | 18:57 |
| Necc | so enough if i make an 160x160px image (for example) and hildon will do the rest automatically? | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | yes, not sure about pre maemo 5, but m5 does it fine | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | i use 164x164 sometimes | 18:58 |
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| lcuk | m5 does not always scale | 19:03 |
| lcuk | so use the expected size | 19:04 |
| MohammadAG | in the menu, it does | 19:04 |
| lcuk | on the add shortcut dialog for desktop | 19:04 |
| lcuk | it is unscaled | 19:04 |
| lcuk | and looks odd | 19:04 |
| javispedro | also, using the right size saves cpu time and memory. | 19:05 |
| javispedro | so, please do. | 19:05 |
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| Necc | well it worked with larger size then needed, and not looks uggly | 19:12 |
| Necc | *ugly | 19:12 |
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| MohammadAG | Necc, apparently, it's not the right way :P | 19:13 |
| Necc | when i throwed tons of icons from amsn-source package into /opt/usr/share/icons all i got is the default blue square icon | 19:14 |
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| javispedro | interesting | 19:18 |
| javispedro | the way the media player sends stuff to tvout is done with a xv extension | 19:18 |
| lcuk | Necc, check the order which you copy icons through | 19:18 |
| javispedro | so no need to fiddle with omapfb.. | 19:18 |
| alterego | We knew that. | 19:18 |
| alterego | I thought | 19:18 |
| lcuk | it makes a difference, there have been numerous fixes attempted | 19:18 |
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| MohammadAG | javispedro, it's actually gstreamer, not the media player itself afaik | 19:20 |
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| javispedro | MohammadAG: I think not, as all the gst stuff is open... | 19:22 |
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| MohammadAG | mplayer does the same i think | 19:23 |
| MohammadAG | or i'm mistaken | 19:23 |
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| javispedro | mplayer doesn't use gst. either way, you can do it for any xv surface with xvattr | 19:23 |
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| lcuk | javispedro, whats the need for video out? | 19:28 |
| lcuk | on maemo its automatic | 19:28 |
| javispedro | note I'm talking about the "trick" media player does | 19:28 |
| javispedro | it shows the videos full screen, and limited by the horrible 800x480->tvout scaling | 19:28 |
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| javispedro | *not limited | 19:28 |
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| lcuk | ? | 19:29 |
| javispedro | previously I thought mediaplayer talked with omapfb by itself, now I believe it talks using xv attributtes | 19:29 |
| lcuk | trick? | 19:29 |
| lcuk | it is normal operation? | 19:29 |
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| javispedro | not for any xv surface.. | 19:30 |
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| lcuk | javispedro, hm | 19:30 |
| lcuk | i never noticed any issue | 19:30 |
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| javispedro | say, if you use xv to render a 200x200 video, normal tvout mode clones the entire 800x480 screen | 19:31 |
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| lcuk | javispedro, but xv already scales up | 19:32 |
| lcuk | or are you saying you get a postage stamp in the corner? | 19:32 |
| * lcuk never experienced that | 19:32 | |
| javispedro | what I mean is that uses different scales for tvout and n900 screen | 19:32 |
| javispedro | with the tvout resolution being decoupled from the n900 one | 19:33 |
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| javispedro | on PAL for ex., it will use all 576 lines | 19:33 |
| Jay_BEE | good morning (ugt) | 19:33 |
| lcuk | javispedro, but it will fill the screen in both cases? | 19:34 |
| Arkenoi | actually i'd prefer VGA out to composite video | 19:34 |
| javispedro | lcuk: not if your tv is 4:3 | 19:34 |
| lcuk | javispedro, hm? it does | 19:34 |
| lcuk | I have 4:3 here | 19:34 |
| lcuk | and the projector I used to have was 4:3 | 19:34 |
| javispedro | lcuk: you see top & bottom black bars when using n900 in an application (eg. the desktop)? | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: alas there was no space left for a standard VGA sub-D connector | 19:34 |
| lcuk | it just stretches as much as | 19:34 |
| javispedro | lcuk: now play a 4:3 video | 19:35 |
| lcuk | javispedro, a little, but thats expected since the source isnt 4:3 | 19:35 |
| javispedro | using builtin mediaplayer | 19:35 |
| javispedro | watch the bars disappear | 19:35 |
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| * lcuk will test a little later on javispedro | 19:37 | |
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| lcuk | hiya Meizirkki \o | 19:37 |
| Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer, a small one with special cable is ok | 19:37 |
| Meizirkki | Hey lcuk | 19:37 |
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| javispedro | lcuk: what I'm talking about is that by default the n900 is on what on pc you'd call "clone mode". both screens are set to the same resolution. | 19:38 |
| javispedro | when playing a video using mediaplayer | 19:38 |
| javispedro | it is in "extend mode" instead, both screens not necessarily having the same resolution | 19:38 |
| lcuk | javispedro, I will check as I say | 19:39 |
| javispedro | (this is not entirely true as even in clone mode there's a rescaling as pal resolution is fixed) | 19:39 |
| lcuk | most amusing is sending different data to videoout as on the touchscreen :) | 19:39 |
| javispedro | eh.. yeah. | 19:40 |
| javispedro | I remember you saying that | 19:40 |
| javispedro | why you need to check it then? =) | 19:40 |
| GAN900 | mirrored | 19:40 |
| lcuk | javispedro, checking what happens with lower resolution data | 19:40 |
| lcuk | i know xv just stretches as much as feasible | 19:40 |
| lcuk | on screen | 19:40 |
| lcuk | but i never tried it with video out effect | 19:40 |
| lcuk | i just took it for granted it tried best | 19:41 |
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| lcuk | so I will run at 400x300 mode | 19:41 |
| lcuk | and see :) | 19:41 |
| javispedro | I do not think this applies to all xv surfaces by default -- just that mediaplayer sets a special bit. | 19:41 |
| lcuk | well thats what I will try | 19:42 |
| lcuk | since I dont try and set special bit | 19:42 |
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| lcuk | it will confirm | 19:42 |
| javispedro | ok :) | 19:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd be more interested in video out color depth | 19:43 |
| javispedro | and what happens when you defocus the window -- if it's in extend mode, it will probably keep on rendering on tvout | 19:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | looks like 15bit to me :-/ | 19:43 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, all maemo RGB is 15 bit | 19:43 |
| lcuk | so thats not surprising | 19:43 |
| javispedro | or 16 iirc? | 19:43 |
| lcuk | yuv is by definition a 24bit format | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | crap for video watching | 19:43 |
| lcuk | ok, offbyone error | 19:43 |
| javispedro | not sure about the tvout one :P | 19:44 |
| lcuk | will verify that too then | 19:44 |
| lcuk | fussy buggers | 19:44 |
| javispedro | haha | 19:44 |
| javispedro | sorry but you're the one with sample xv applications lcuk ;) | 19:44 |
| lcuk | indeed | 19:45 |
| javispedro | I just have some omapfb banging stuff. | 19:45 |
| lcuk | speaking of this | 19:45 |
| javispedro | up until now I thought mediaplayer or other propietary app fiddled with omapfb, | 19:45 |
| lcuk | i never got round to curing: http://liqbase.net/liq.20100820_comparison_yuv_rgb_x11.htm | 19:45 |
| javispedro | if it's xv attributtes, this means the implementation of this should be OSS and on Xorg | 19:45 |
| javispedro | so I could "play by the rules" | 19:45 |
| javispedro | hehe | 19:46 |
| javispedro | don't ever lose the extra green bit! | 19:46 |
| lcuk | yeah | 19:46 |
| javispedro | ;) | 19:46 |
| javispedro | afaik It's a human eye thing, being more sensible to green's depth than any other channel | 19:47 |
| lcuk | yeah | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, watching video from N900 is basically no fun at all | 19:50 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, ? | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3*7 bit colordepth is bare minimum for natural video | 19:51 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, YUV mode is output as 24bit | 19:52 |
| lcuk | happily most videos use YUV to store things | 19:52 |
| lcuk | i just went downstairs and checked | 19:53 |
| lcuk | so, if you are seeing things rendered onto tvout as 16bit, its because the video player you are using is using a RGB surface | 19:53 |
| lcuk | instead of xv mode | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 19:53 |
| lcuk | happily the gradients used in that calc example are really clear and easy to tell the difference with | 19:54 |
| lcuk | and theres no banding on my tv | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | NB most modern TV do auto-scaling | 19:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IE if you offer 400 lines instead of 512, it will happily zoom up to display a full screen from 400 lines | 19:56 |
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| javispedro | btw, I just tested it again | 19:58 |
| javispedro | the camera application also uses the "trick" | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | the viewfinder is video playback basically | 19:58 |
| javispedro | xv actually. | 19:59 |
| javispedro | tme to check if mplayer does... | 19:59 |
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| javispedro | well, mplayer does, but only when you set it to fullscreen, so it must be aware of this | 20:15 |
| javispedro | well, gotta go. cya. | 20:17 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: nonsense | 20:21 |
| luke-jr | I watch movies on my N900 all the time these days | 20:21 |
| luke-jr | using the video out thing | 20:21 |
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| KotCzarny | hi. | 21:06 |
| KotCzarny | how can i make application manager use my proxy settings? | 21:07 |
| KotCzarny | browser works, appman doesn't | 21:07 |
| lcuk | . I can always using the terminal by doing export http_proxy and do an apt-get update but i dont think it would be ideal. anyone else having this problem? | 21:08 |
| lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37713 | 21:08 |
| KotCzarny | apt-get as a regular user without sudo or anything? | 21:08 |
| KotCzarny | unless i t's added by default | 21:08 |
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| KotCzarny | lcuk, i use ip for proxy address | 21:10 |
| lcuk | KotCzarny, try it? | 21:11 |
| KotCzarny | no go | 21:11 |
| KotCzarny | asks for password | 21:11 |
| KotCzarny | pressing enter returns | 21:11 |
| lcuk | how did you install stuff before? | 21:13 |
| KotCzarny | i had a broadband | 21:13 |
| lcuk | ahh | 21:14 |
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| crashanddie | MohammadAG: pong | 21:42 |
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| MohammadAG | crashanddie, pm | 21:42 |
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| Termana | good morning | 21:52 |
| NooBmonk3y | evenin! | 21:53 |
| crashanddie | morning Termana | 21:53 |
| crashanddie | ~ugt | 21:53 |
| infobot | i guess ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html | 21:53 |
| NooBmonk3y | lol | 21:54 |
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| * NooBmonk3y must be behind the times ;) | 21:54 | |
| lcuk | not really NooBmonk3y | 21:54 |
| lcuk | its just crashanddie being picky :P | 21:54 |
| * lcuk said evening also in #meego | 21:54 | |
| NooBmonk3y | ;P thats normally doc's job ;) | 21:54 |
| NooBmonk3y | hehehe | 21:54 |
| Termana | It's 6:30am here. Normally I'd be asleep for another couple of hours - but I accidentally fell asleep early last night :p | 21:56 |
| * lcuk accidentally couldn't fall asleep last night | 21:58 | |
| lcuk | everytime I tried something banged or shook or snored or rang or crashed or beeped | 21:58 |
| NooBmonk3y | lol! | 21:59 |
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| lcuk | NooBmonk3y, what would you do to someone who tried social calling at 8am on a saturday morning? | 21:59 |
| NooBmonk3y | lcuk, ignore them :P | 22:01 |
| NooBmonk3y | allthough i was up at 8am, getting water to ease the hangover :P | 22:01 |
| lcuk | heh | 22:01 |
| NooBmonk3y | social calling? ie skype etc? :P | 22:01 |
| lcuk | well I tried that and hit the wrong button ont he phone | 22:01 |
| lcuk | phone call waking whole house | 22:01 |
| NooBmonk3y | i've never really got on with skype etc.... N900 battery dies to quick if i leave it on, and pc isn't on all the time, so i'm rarely online | 22:02 |
| NooBmonk3y | lol! | 22:02 |
| * lcuk leaves phone on normally for emergency practical purposes | 22:02 | |
| lcuk | but does not expect to be woken by it | 22:03 |
| NooBmonk3y | hehehe, me too | 22:03 |
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| NooBmonk3y | darn bank tried to get hold of me 18 times on friday, was not a happy bunny | 22:04 |
| NooBmonk3y | if i dont answer its cos i'm busy, and they never leave messages! | 22:04 |
| lcuk | well after the 18th time they decided to reject the anonymous deposit someone wanted to make into your account :P | 22:05 |
| ieatlint | lcuk: the answer to someone calling you at 8am on a saturday to say high is to call them at 3am on a sunday to say hi | 22:05 |
| lcuk | ieatlint, 3am is too early | 22:05 |
| lcuk | people are still getting in from club | 22:05 |
| lcuk | but I like your thinking | 22:05 |
| Termana | :p | 22:05 |
| ieatlint | hehe | 22:05 |
| ieatlint | only good can come from escalating it | 22:06 |
| lcuk | point taken | 22:06 |
| lcuk | but afaik this person leaves his phone in another part of house | 22:06 |
| ieatlint | that's ok, the fun of revenge is often thinking of what you'd do, not doing it | 22:07 |
| ieatlint | the latter has consequences :( | 22:07 |
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| lcuk | ieatlint, only in weekend lie ins :P | 22:12 |
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| nox- | moin | 22:47 |
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| NooBmonk3y | hmmm does qtirreco work for anyone? | 23:21 |
| NooBmonk3y | can't seem to get it to do anything :| | 23:21 |
| lcuk | NooBmonk3y, did you configure it for your tv | 23:22 |
| NooBmonk3y | yeah tried all my remotes, got a sanyo tv, virgin box (cant see one for that) and panasonic surround sound, neither of the two with available remotes work :| | 23:24 |
| MohammadAG | get a camera, point the IR at it, see if it's emitting a signal | 23:25 |
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| beford | mine does not seem to be emitting a signal | 23:27 |
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| NooBmonk3y | cant see any red lights etc or flashes anywhere | 23:28 |
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| NooBmonk3y | might explain why pykake does not work either | 23:29 |
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| MohammadAG | NooBmonk3y, I think qtirreco somehow fucks up lircd's config file | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG | I found a fix on tmo for it once, can't seem to remember where, but I use irreco now | 23:32 |
| NooBmonk3y | hmmm ok faq says when typing ps in terminal | 23:32 |
| NooBmonk3y | /usr/sbin/lircd --device=/dev/lirc0 --listen=8765 should appear | 23:32 |
| NooBmonk3y | i cant see it in there | 23:32 |
| NooBmonk3y | so lirc not running? | 23:32 |
| NooBmonk3y | ahh theres a different app? lol | 23:33 |
| MohammadAG | irreco-for-n900 or something | 23:33 |
| MohammadAG | it's in GTK instead of Qt, but it works better for me | 23:33 |
| Jay_BEE | i had qtirreco working in the pr1.2 days... i haven't tried it since pr1.3 | 23:33 |
| NooBmonk3y | :P | 23:34 |
| NooBmonk3y | dloading the irreco one | 23:34 |
| NooBmonk3y | will try that | 23:34 |
| Jay_BEE | suppose i could walk into the living room and see if it will still work with my tv, which i never watch... | 23:34 |
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| rcg | lcuk: just for the case anyone is having a similar issue: i think the problem was not related to the changelog being "one liners" - i.e. only containing the changes for the particular version - but was caused by me not updating the time and date fields in the changelog. | 23:44 |
| rcg | dunno actually why i forgot to update those fileds | 23:45 |
| lcuk | rcg, cleaning your changelog down for each release does a disservice to anyone wanting to know what happens in your system | 23:45 |
| rcg | *fields | 23:45 |
| lcuk | and would have made it clearer as to what the actual problem was | 23:45 |
| lcuk | not everyone uses the web page to view changes | 23:45 |
| rcg | lcuk: yes, didn't know i could keep multiple entries | 23:45 |
| rcg | lcuk: thanks for pointig me to the correct direction :) | 23:46 |
| lcuk | \o | 23:47 |
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| NooBmonk3y | meh not working with irreco either | 23:51 |
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