IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-12-11

MohammadAGyou're supposed to escape the space with that \, not display it!00:00
alteregoheh00:00
DangerMaushehe00:01
alteregoyou don't need to escapespaces i didn't think00:01
alteregos/escape/escape /00:01
infobotalterego meant: you don't need to escape spaces i didn't think00:01
alterego:)00:01
MohammadAGI do for most sh commands00:01
MohammadAG~botsmack00:01
infobotOWW!00:01
alterego~girl00:03
infobot"If you don't believe in the existence of evil, you have a lot to learn", or very exciting to be with, enjoying and best of all they are very soft :)00:03
alteregoHah00:03
MohammadAGlol00:04
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MohammadAG~alterego00:05
infobothmm... alterego is a nice person who is always ready to help with all kinds of weird stuff. he can also answer any Qt-related question00:05
MohammadAGalterego, what'00:05
MohammadAGsigh, fail :P00:05
alteregoHeh00:05
MohammadAGalterego, what's Qt in arabic00:05
MohammadAGsee? gotcha!00:05
You`veisn't qt short of cute?00:06
alteregoQt sand00:06
MohammadAGYou`ve, think so00:06
You`vewhich should have some representantion in arabic too00:06
You`veyour inglish is failing you on this one00:06
alteregoHrm, couldn't think of a joke to do with arabs00:06
MohammadAGI just spell it as Cute-y00:06
MohammadAGYou`ve, English* :p00:07
alteregoyou mean cutie?00:07
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You`ve:)00:07
You`vecutee00:07
MohammadAGnot exactly, since I spell Qt as it is, cue, tee00:07
You`vecootie?00:07
alteregoSame00:07
alteregoMohammadAG: yeah, all the real coders call it cute :P00:07
MohammadAGI just can't think of it as Cute Mutlimedia for example00:07
MohammadAGor cute mobility00:08
alteregoYou'll call it when you get more proficient ;)00:08
You`vecootie mobility00:08
MohammadAGsince it's not my definition of cute :P00:08
alteregoHeh00:08
MohammadAGalterego, I see :P00:08
alteregoMobility is pretty cool tbh00:08
MohammadAGyeah, wrappers are nice ;)00:08
You`vepads?00:09
You`ve:)00:09
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MohammadAGlol pervert00:09
* You`ve said that wrappers are nice 00:09
alteregoAbstraction conver _wrappers_ actually :P00:09
alteregos/conver/covered/00:10
infobotalterego meant: Abstraction covered _wrappers_ actually :P00:10
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* You`ve joined channel #maemo. Press 1 to talk in english, 2 to talk in spanish, 3 to yawn.00:11
alterego300:12
* You`ve yawned.00:12
alteregosweet00:12
MohammadAGwow, didn't know that!00:12
MohammadAG300:12
MohammadAG200:12
MohammadAG100:12
* MohammadAG laughs00:12
* You`ve yawned.00:12
MohammadAGhmm00:13
MohammadAG2 && 300:13
You`veonly 3 works, to be honest00:13
You`ve:)00:13
alteregoHeh00:13
* MohammadAG types 91100:13
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You`vehow do you yawn in second person?00:14
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alteregoStarting to forget when tmo was actually any good.00:14
alteregoi guess it never was tbh00:14
You`ve8x0 times?00:14
You`veanyway, anyone tried 2.6.37-rc on n900?00:16
alteregoMeh, I never really liked tmo00:16
alteregoNope00:16
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You`ve.36.2 maybe?00:16
You`ve    OMAP3: DMA: Errata i541: sDMA FIFO draining does not finish00:17
You`vethis patch looks interesting00:17
alteregoI'm using .35.2 I think00:18
You`vewhich also has similar patch for omap2 too00:18
You`ve    omap: dma: Fix buffering disable bit setting for omap24xx00:18
MohammadAGalterego, with maemo? o_O00:18
You`veso another our of pocket question, how can i reset dsp tasks on 8x0 ?00:19
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You`veafter my app crashes 4 times with dsptask open i get only device busy00:19
You`ve*out of pocket00:19
ShadowJKis sDMA used for anything right now?00:19
You`veaudio?00:19
You`vehttp://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/ChangeLog-2.6.36.200:20
You`vechangelog is here00:20
alteregoMohammadAG: no, of course not :P00:20
You`vejust find the strings00:20
You`veThe issue can be easily reproduced by creating overrun situation while recording audio.00:20
You`veso i guess it's quite realistic bug00:20
MohammadAGaxel is awesome00:21
MohammadAGalterego, does MeeGo currently have a repo?00:21
* GAN900 murders a stupid redneck piece of shit.00:22
alteregoYes, that's how you build custom images00:22
GAN900Redneck blood and dpkg?00:22
MohammadAGalterego, I mean something like extras-devel00:22
alteregoIf you have cbuild, you get your own personal repo00:23
MohammadAGto actually start pushing packages for when MeeGo reaches the N900:23
MohammadAGor whatever it's going to be called00:23
alteregoThat wont work00:23
alteregoN9 is deb00:23
MohammadAGaava?00:24
alteregoobs fremantle will be cool00:24
alteregothen presuambly we'll have obs harmattan too00:24
alteregoSo you can build apps simultaneously for fremantle harmattan and meego00:25
alteregoWhen its' finished at leas00:25
alteregot00:25
ShadowJKI would not be surprised if MeeGo compliant RPMs were installable on Harmattan too00:25
alteregopossibly00:25
alteregobut no one knows00:25
alteregoand I don't think its' that likely00:25
* alterego contemplates building a harmatten image00:26
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alteregoOr at least an image based on debian with harmatten components and bins from meego00:27
alteregoand meego core apps00:27
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* You`ve been disconnected.00:39
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MohammadAGhmm01:35
MohammadAGMeeGo 1.1.80 > 1.0.9901:35
MohammadAGexcept for the bright red LED that's there for no apparent reason01:36
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GAN900So is it a Tracker issue that images isn't showing the photo I took of the scumbag's license plate today. . . .01:49
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blackthornehi01:58
blackthorneis there any sim card on/off switcher? or even a scheduler?01:59
SpeedEvilYou mean to turn off the modem?02:00
SpeedEvilthere is an app I think02:00
SpeedEvilI forget the name02:00
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SpeedEvilAnd online/offline mode does it too (though od course kills wifi/bt)02:00
blackthornehey, that is enough02:01
blackthorneis it on profiles?02:01
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blackthornehow can I easily turn it online/offline?02:03
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SpeedEvilPress power - offline mode02:04
SpeedEvilhttp://maemo.org/packages/view/cell-modem-ui/02:04
SpeedEvilOr that02:04
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DangerMausor tablet mode though i think that may be an app02:06
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DangerMausthough i think that leaves bt and maybe wifi02:06
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MohammadAGis it normal for the device to get hot when using meego?02:09
lcukMohammadAG, bug 7790, being worked on at the moment, requires kernel hackery and upstreaming but theres people with it so I hear02:10
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/7790 Calendar generates .ics-files it can't read itself(!)02:10
lcukerrr crap, you shouldv asked on meego02:10
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blackthornenow I am looking for a way to schedule online/offline periods02:23
blackthornewith my sim/wifi/bt on my n90002:24
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SpeedEvilI'm unsure - I think clockd does this, but I've never used it02:32
MohammadAGalarmed?02:33
MohammadAGit should02:33
MohammadAGdamn it's quiet in here tonight02:34
blackthornethank you, will try it02:35
blackthornebye, ty02:38
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lcukyes MohammadAG, it is.02:48
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MohammadAGerr, no QWebkit.h file o_O02:51
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toresbeArkenoi: cool, a Soviet PDP-11? (They were made in Ukraine, weren't they?)03:00
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ieatlintMohammadAG: there is no qwebkit methinks03:02
ieatlinthttp://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qtwebkit.html03:02
ieatlint"#include <QtWebKit>"03:02
MohammadAGieatlint, err, I know that, it's missing from meego's image03:02
ieatlintah03:02
ieatlintit's a plugin i think.. not sure03:03
ieatlintperhaps an extra package to install?03:03
ieatlintis "qt-webkit" package on my desktop os, for instance03:03
Arkenoitoresbe, iirc, yes, it is CM-1425, afair it is "elektronmash" or something03:04
Arkenoiit has imported j-11 inside, though it was said there is pin-compatible soviet clone of that cpu03:05
Arkenoii also own an 11/3403:05
Arkenoihttp://milliways.chance.ru/~ark/images/mainroom.jpg (quite old photo, you may see nokia 9500 there :-)03:06
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MohammadAGieatlint, libqt4-dev is installed03:11
MohammadAGit should get all packages03:11
ieatlintplugins are usually separate03:12
ieatlintclasses starting with Qt instead of just Q indicate plugins methinks03:12
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MohammadAGieatlint, it compiles fine for maemo, and ubuntu, it's a meego issue03:13
ieatlintok..03:13
ieatlinti'll note one last thing... on maemo, the package is libqt4-webkit03:14
MohammadAGapt-cache show libqt4-dev | grep Depends:03:18
MohammadAGyou03:18
MohammadAGyou'll find it there, I'm sure03:18
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johnxmornin' all03:50
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lolloomorning johnx \003:57
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lcukmorning johnx \o03:58
johnxso what's new in the world?03:58
lcukoooh @ hot topic on #meego03:58
lcuk^^ johnx03:59
* lolloo agrees03:59
lcukjohnx, do you have snow and general coldness over there atm?03:59
johnxnah. we had snow earlier. now it's just turned into a regular NW US winter: coolish, overcast and rainy04:00
* lcuk goes and builds liqcalendar packages04:00
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lcukheh johnx04:00
lcukwe hadsnow snow snow snow04:00
lcukthen the wind changed and melted it all04:01
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johnxI <3 snow driving04:02
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Termanagood morning04:02
lcukjohnx, i do when properly prepared for it04:02
johnxmornin' Termana04:02
lolloorain only here04:03
lollooboho04:03
johnxsame here now04:03
johnxthe forcast for the next 7 days just shows the rain icon :|04:04
lolloohehehe depressing04:04
johnxbeen saying that since end of november, but that's business as usual here04:04
johnxsnow would be a nice change04:05
lollooI agree, send me some snow please04:05
MohammadAGlcuk, resend liqcalendar to the repos04:05
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GAN900Snow04:07
GAN900What's that?04:07
johnxGAN900, the reason I have an AWD car04:07
TermanaI wholeheartedly agree. You can send me some snow. We (basically) don't get it here :p04:07
GAN900I might rain this weekend.04:08
MohammadAGI think it's banned here04:08
GAN900s/I/It/04:08
MohammadAGthey confuse it with cocaine you see04:08
infobotGAN900 meant: It might rain this weekend.04:08
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TermanaMohammadAG, heh04:08
johnxMohammadAG, must be hard to find flour and sugar ...04:08
MohammadAGjohnx, well, there's brown sugar and04:09
* MohammadAG thinks04:09
MohammadAGwholegrain flour?04:09
MohammadAGI hate you :P04:09
GAN900Unbleached flour.04:09
johnx:D04:10
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lolloohehe04:11
MohammadAGRain!!! About freaking time04:14
lolloowow long time eh?04:15
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lollooI bet it wont last long like here.04:16
MohammadAGit's prolly only today/night04:16
MohammadAGno snow I guess04:16
MohammadAGanyways, night04:17
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johnxnight MohammadAG (and if you want rain, just head my way)04:17
lolloofree ticket?04:18
johnxthe rain is free. room+board are extra04:18
lolloohehehe04:18
lcukjohnx, you could email some to him04:18
lolloopackaging will suffice04:19
johnx"attachment too big, limit is 3 inches of rain per message"04:19
lolloohehe04:19
lolloothats look like MSN email04:19
lolloolimitation on everything!04:20
lcukjohnx, span the rain over multitple messages?04:20
lcukjust a light shower, followed by a persistent downpour04:21
johnxI'll just put it up on my website04:22
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DocScrutinizermoo06:29
Termanamoorning DocScrutinizer06:29
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GAN900Wee, real sugar soda. What a concept.06:32
* GAN900 stabs trade protectionism.06:33
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* DocScrutinizer prepares a latte macciato for Termana and GAN90006:37
GAN900Nooo . . . bedtime06:38
TermanaSounds lovely to me :p06:38
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TermanaAlso, Ubuntu sucks my balls. 10.10 keeps crashing RANDOMLY, and displaying an error message that I've found out actually has NOTHING to do with why it's crashing. I think it's time to switch to another distro, I can't take much more of Ubuntu's bullshit06:40
johnxTermana, what are you thinking of switching to?06:40
johnx(also, obligatory "works for me")06:40
nox-if crashes are really random it might also just be some hw issue06:42
nox-bad ram bad psu bad board you name it06:43
lolloonaaah just format06:43
johnx(and yes, sometimes HW problems can be triggered more by one OS version than another)06:43
johnxone component overheating can cause fun problems as well06:44
nox-yeah forgot overheating06:44
DocScrutinizeropensuse, WFM. I never got the drive with Shuttleworth's semi-proprietary shit06:44
nox-didnt `ms' just buy out novell?06:44
DocScrutinizerhahaha06:45
nox-or some `investor'... :)06:45
DocScrutinizerIcouldntbotherless06:45
ieatlintmight i suggest http://ubuntuce.com/ or http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/06:47
ieatlintthey're both awesome06:47
ieatlintHML is the shit06:47
DocScrutinizerhannahmontana \o/06:47
DocScrutinizerhttp://xkcd.com/424/ so much for my notion about ubuntu06:48
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nox-hehe06:49
luke-jrnox-: Ubuntu is infamous for having hardware problems06:49
ieatlinthaha06:50
ieatlinti still love the xkcd comic about that openssl patch06:50
ieatlinthttp://xkcd.com/221/06:50
nox-yeah thats one's a classic06:50
luke-jrnot as classic as the sudo one06:51
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ieatlintdunno, 221 is awesome because of what it was mocking06:52
ieatlintsudo isn't funny by itself, but them removing a salt in a random number generator on an cryptography lib is06:52
DocScrutinizer221 is annoying as there's no RFC1149.506:53
ieatlintso bitter :P06:53
johnxthe fact that you actually went looking for RFC1149.5 just made that comic funnier to me :)06:55
luke-jrjohnx: who wouldn't?06:56
DocScrutinizerpah, I know 1149 by heart - don't even have to look it up06:56
luke-jr1149 is IP over aviation, tho06:56
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johnxluke-jr, huh. I just kinda figured that any RFC ending in .5 was obviously a joke ...06:57
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luke-jrjohnx: 1149 is a joke w/o ending in .506:57
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ieatlint1149 is legit... i've seen it done06:57
DocScrutinizerhaha06:57
nox-haha06:58
DocScrutinizerwith06:58
ieatlintcarrier pigeons06:58
DocScrutinizerSYN & ACK/NAK?06:58
ieatlinti don't think they did more than a SYN and an ACK actually06:58
luke-jrhttp://www.xkcd.com/832/ is actually useful06:59
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ieatlintit did stray from  the spec slightly too, they didn't duct tape it to the bird06:59
luke-jrI think I just decided I'm always going to be X06:59
johnxluke-jr, for certain values of "useful"07:00
luke-jrhehe07:00
luke-jrmore useful than other xkcd for sure07:00
DocScrutinizerwow, 832 is awesome07:02
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DocScrutinizerhaha, story of my life http://www.xkcd.com/827/07:18
DocScrutinizerwell, not exactly07:18
DocScrutinizer:-P07:18
Termanajohnx, haven't thought about it. I'm just pissed off that it's doing it07:18
TermanaMaybe I'll buy a Mac and go OS X! :P07:19
johnxTermana, the nice thing about linux is the ability to (usually) figure out *why* it's doing whatever it is07:19
DocScrutinizerexcept for random reboots on diablo07:19
johnxDocScrutinizer, that comes down to the watchdog, right?07:20
DocScrutinizerprolly07:20
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Jay_BEEhola07:21
TermanaOr maybe I'll grow a big beard and go *BSD07:21
Termanahey Jay_BEE07:21
DocScrutinizerthough I ran a remote shell with htop, and there's not been any runaway process or exceptional load at all07:21
johnxDocScrutinizer, and you tested to see if the reboots continued after disabling the watchdog?07:22
TermanaDocScrutinizer: Diablo will also randomly shut off if your battery is old07:22
DocScrutinizerjohnx: nope07:22
DocScrutinizerTermana: standby off battery >2days, with WLAN07:23
DocScrutinizerok, not the expected 8 days anymore07:23
* DocScrutinizer swaps battery, got a "fresh" one from spare N810 anyway07:24
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DocScrutinizernevertheless I doubt it's battery related. Seems it's much more frequent when xchat is running07:24
johnxDocScrutinizer, uhm, then I would guess it's something causing the watchdog to trigger. I also wouldn't put much effort into figuring out why until you figure out that either is or isn't the direct cause of the reboots07:24
DocScrutinizerjohnx: kernel panic comes to mind07:26
johnxwell, yeah. it could be, but you have a simple way to rule out the watchdog, and no really simple way to rule out a kernel panic07:27
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johnxit's the old "searching under the streetlight" thing: do the easy tests first07:27
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DocScrutinizergrr, need an alarm @ 6:25 to warn me about disconnect pending07:28
DocScrutinizerjohnx: kernel panic comes to mind07:28
DocScrutinizermaybe a glitch in WLAN driver07:28
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johnx<johnx> well, yeah. it could be, but you have a simple way to rule out the watchdog, and no really simple way to rule out a kernel panic07:28
johnx* chx has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)07:28
johnx<johnx> it's the old "searching under the streetlight" thing: do the easy tests first07:28
DocScrutinizerack07:29
* DocScrutinizer swaps battery NOW07:29
TermanaDocScrutinizer: why does your internet disconnect at 6:25 for?07:29
DocScrutinizernot 6:25, but 6:30-delta07:29
DocScrutinizerwhere delta is my router sysclock being fast07:30
DocScrutinizer24h forced disconnect07:30
Termanaso you purposely have your router reboot or something?07:30
DocScrutinizera german thing all providers do07:30
nox-Termana, stupid german adsl isps disconnecting `everyone' after 24h07:30
Termanaah. righto07:30
DocScrutinizeryes, I schedule it in router to keep it from drifting a few minutes every day07:30
nox-bbl07:31
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DocScrutinizeranother strange thing is it often reboots TWO times in a row, doing busy things for 2..4minutes then rebooting 2nd time. Feels like fsck07:38
DocScrutinizer/ isn't filled up07:39
DocScrutinizerit not even got any syslog running afaik07:39
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DocScrutinizeronce I thought it's just xchat logs filling / ->reboot, but it reboots without xchat running, as well07:40
DocScrutinizerfor all I can tell it might actually be a hw glitch problem, after 3+ years of 24/707:42
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DocScrutinizer-8well, I just rebooted it with 'fresh' battery. You can tell how long it lasts, from this user vanishing from channel07:44
DocScrutinizermight be anything from minutes to months07:46
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DocScrutinizerit hits me I maybe should reflash the N810 :-P07:48
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TermanaEngadget are a bunch of raging idiot lunatics. When reviewing the Nexus S and Android 2.3, they said this about copy and paste in Android 2.3 - "Funnily enough, a little cursor appears when you start selecting -- a holdover from Linux?"07:53
johnxAndroid isn't linux07:54
johnxat this point you could make a good argument for "forked from linux"07:54
TermanaDo you think I was being sarcastic when I said they were lunatics? :P07:55
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TermanaThey obviously have no clue what they are talking about. Ever.07:56
johnxif you s/linux/traditional linux distros/ would you agree with it?07:57
Termanajohnx - no? I don't agree with it in it's current form, and I wouldn't agree with it like that either. The cursor that appears in Android when you copy and paste obviously has NOTHING to do with and is certainly not any "holdover" from the Linux the kernel or any GNU userspace07:59
Termanathe Linux kernel*07:59
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DocScrutinizeremgadget - pff08:05
johnxmeh. they're reasonable most of the time08:05
* DocScrutinizer glares at scanjet G241008:05
DocScrutinizer>:-(08:05
johnxscanners are right up there with printers in the group of "technology that I kind of loathe"08:06
DocScrutinizer~spank DocScrutinizer08:06
* infobot bends DocScrutinizer over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on DocScrutinizer's pasty white buttocks.08:06
johnxO_o;08:06
DocScrutinizerI thought "HP" is a equiv to "works with linux"08:06
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johnxbuy products, not brands08:07
DocScrutinizeryeah, after it found it doesn't work at all with anything linuxoid, I wondered if it'd be smarter to google FIRST08:08
johnxI've been guilty of making the same mistake quite a few times in the past08:08
johnxthe related mistake is: buy products for the features they have now, not the features that some promised future update may confer08:09
johnxlearned that one after buying an original radeon with the promise of open source drivers being finished "any day now"08:09
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DocScrutinizerhaha, that's why this shit is collecting dust here since a year08:09
DocScrutinizerhoped it might get support eventually, but no luck08:10
DocScrutinizernow I'll trade it in for a random AP router08:11
DocScrutinizerthe girl has winXP and doesn't need the router :-D08:11
DocScrutinizercan't be worse than my ZyXEL P66008:11
johnxhilariously, the scanner my wife bought to use with her windows xp machine recently got linux drivers but never had win7 drivers released08:13
DocScrutinizerhahaha08:13
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trxcan gtk and qt be mixed? (insert a gtk based edit box onto a qt widget)08:43
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Gh0styluke-jr: can't explain it but your whatcelltower cause my phone to always want to connect to a network ... better yet: when its connected to a network it does not ask it but when the programm seems to be finished even it will try to reconnect to networks after my network connection is broken09:35
Gh0styit retries like every minute or so ...09:35
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DocScrutinizerGh0sty: that's the virus he put in there. You never should start binaries of questionable origin that aren't backed up by sourcecode09:37
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: oh well I'm probably going to scratch my phone today anyway09:39
Gh0styso I don't mind :p09:39
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Gh0styDocScrutinizer: you are more the hardware guy as far as i know? :p09:40
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Gh0styor you know also internals about the software?09:40
DocScrutinizerhmm, kinda09:40
Gh0stywe were talking here about the graphics chip yesterday09:40
Gh0styand the way that its driver is closed source09:40
DocScrutinizers/chip/core09:41
Gh0stythe capabilities of the chip are good enough to run meego but its only driver support which is missing?09:41
Gh0styor is the chip underpowered?09:41
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DocScrutinizerhard to answer, I don't actually understand the question09:42
TermanaGh0sty, what are you talking about? the graphics chip has support in MeeGo09:42
Gh0stywell people are cursing about the fact that the chip does not do 3D or 2D well enough ...09:42
DocScrutinizerbtw there's no graphics chip09:42
TermanaOr a better question, who were you talking to this about?09:43
Gh0stysomething SGI which is closed source?09:43
* Termana gets the rubber mallet out09:43
DocScrutinizerit the gfx core in OMAP SoC09:43
Gh0styok then I don't understand the hardware architecture :p09:43
Gh0styis there actually no block diagram then? :p09:43
DocScrutinizerthere's a complete schematics09:44
Gh0styah really? let me google that09:44
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DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic09:44
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TermanaDocScrutinizer: I hate to argue semantics, but isn't it still technically a chip? Just because it's soldered on (or whatever) on to the SoC shouldn't change that09:45
DocScrutinizerit's a sub-block on the CPU-et-al die09:45
lcukits actually better to describe it as a specialised core09:45
DocScrutinizerso, colloquially it's the same "chip" as CPU and a lot of other things09:46
Gh0sty# Integrated POWERVR SGX™ graphics core with OpenGL ES® 2.0 and OpenVG™, support.09:46
DocScrutinizerit's a System ona Chip09:46
DocScrutinizerSoC09:46
Gh0stythats the one they were talking about yesterday i think09:46
Gh0stythis part is a closed driver09:47
DocScrutinizeryes, it's a core, no chip09:47
TermanaI just always thought the SoC meant the whole board. But I guess that would be System on a Board :p09:47
Gh0stywell this core is powerful enough to run the 3d candy which meego wants?09:47
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Termanathought that*09:47
Gh0styTermana: well in fact as I read it now its system on a chip ... :p09:47
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: I got no idea what meego wants09:47
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Gh0styso multiple cores put together on 1 single chip which are closely linked09:48
Gh0styjust like they want to do now from intel and such09:48
DocScrutinizerit's caled OMAP343009:49
DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_CPU09:49
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TermanaGh0sty, yes it is fine for MeeGo. Whoever has been complaining that it isn't suitable for MeeGo hasn't used it (more so using the driver available for MeeGo)09:49
Gh0stywell it was mostly luke-jr who was ... how should I put it09:50
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Gh0stystarting a bit of a rant like maemo is dead and meego will never be supported on n900 officially09:50
lollooMeeGo awesome09:50
Gh0styso you throw away your money by buying an n900 now09:51
lolloon900 is cheap09:51
Gh0stylol09:51
Gh0stynow it is maybe09:51
lollooI would by three if i want09:51
TermanaI see09:51
Gh0styI payed mine 500 eur09:51
TermanaGh0sty, it depends on how you interpret "officially" I guess09:51
SwedeMikebuying a used n900 might make sense though09:52
TermanaThe N900 is currently $350 on Amazon09:52
Gh0stywell I consider even if the whole thing is a dead platform09:52
Termana(new)09:52
lollooi bought new N900 for 300 dolar09:52
Gh0styits still usable as a pocket linux pc :p09:52
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lolloomeego will support n900 officially09:52
Gh0stylolloo: yeah half a year after I bought mine (its an import from the UK cause I could not even get it here)09:53
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Gh0stythe decreased the price by around 30%09:53
lollooaha09:53
* DocScrutinizer moans and hides away from upcoming "without meego it's a useless device" nonsense09:53
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lollooMeeGo is better competition to android09:53
TermanaDocScrutinizer: without meego it's a useless device!!!111!!!!09:53
lollooand ios09:54
chxfor less than 300 usd i got a mobile device that runs Drupal at an acceptable speed, runs Skype, IRC and SSH and even allows me to do phonecalls and has a GPS. That's a good deal.09:54
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: well but you got to admit that not much developers are attracted by an OS which nokia is not going to continue soon ... (maemo)09:54
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lolloomeego= maemo609:54
Gh0styoh yes ios09:54
Gh0stythat screws with my mind09:54
SwedeMikedeveloping new applications for maemo doesn't make much sense, yes.09:54
lolloomeego = maemo 609:55
Gh0stywhoever invented that one ... surprised that cisco does not complain to apple yet :p09:55
SwedeMikeGh0sty: apple bought a license to use it.09:55
Gh0styrly? :p09:55
Gh0stylol09:55
SwedeMikehttp://blogs.cisco.com/news/cisco_and_apple_agreement_on_ios_trademark/09:55
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: sorry, I'm not contributing in this nonsense debate. Just one word: I'd happily use the linux system as of 5 years ago on my laptop, if it wasn't for kde3 being discontinued09:55
Gh0stybut anyway away from the rants:09:55
Gh0stymeego is not yet production ready09:56
lolloomeego is linux09:56
lolloofully open09:56
Gh0styso we're now in a twilight zone?09:56
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lollooand better for tablets09:56
lolloonot like maemo 509:56
Gh0styis it fully open? :/09:56
lollooyes09:56
Gh0stylike the phone part and stuff?09:56
lollooyes09:56
SwedeMike"open" is one of the most misused words in the world. very subjective.09:56
Gh0styhmm ok09:57
SwedeMikelolloo: is it "debian" open?09:57
lollooyes09:57
Gh0stybut how about running meego then on the device09:57
TermanaThat's not true09:57
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Gh0stylast week I read you can't even charge the n900 yet when running meego?09:57
lolloocopy to MMC card09:57
* DocScrutinizer YAAAWNS09:58
lolloolatest version of meego is 3 days old09:58
Gh0styor are people feeding gibberish into this channel? :p09:58
lolloo1.1.809:58
* RST38h drops a screwdriver intoDocScrutinizer09:58
lolloocheck out meego repo09:58
Termanalolloo, not only is the N900 MeeGo implementation not "debian" open, vendors won't be encouraged to make their MeeGo devices "debian" open09:58
lolloofor latest image09:58
SwedeMikelolloo: I doubt there won't be closed components, just like there is on N90009:58
lolloomaybe gfx driver will be closed09:59
Gh0styis there any downside onto running it from mmc card?09:59
lollooits bad for buisness to make fully open09:59
SwedeMikehttp://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 "Due to the use of closed components in the hardware adaptation, this team cannot run fully in the open."09:59
DocScrutinizers/from mmc card//09:59
lolloocompetition will steal ideas09:59
SwedeMikelolloo: ah, so it's not debian open after all.10:00
lolloonokia dont want competition stealing10:00
DocScrutinizerlolloo: stop talking BS10:00
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: ? enlighten me?10:00
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lollooDocScrutinizer, ur best in maemo10:00
lolloomeego is another talk.10:01
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DocScrutinizerlolloo: so I suggest you take your talk there10:01
lollooyes but I wish you come help too10:01
Gh0styok thats what I just realised ... DocScrutinizer does not like it here :p10:02
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: mind if I ask what your personal opinion is about meego then?10:02
lolloohehe10:02
TermanaYeah, DocScrutinizer comes here because I manipulate and force him to, he absolutely doesn't do it on his own free will and like to come here10:02
Gh0styyou can also pm it to me if you dont want it public10:02
lolloohehe10:02
Gh0styand I'm not joking ...10:03
lolloohaha10:03
DocScrutinizermeego is an OS trageted at Nokia's next smartphone series, and not useable on a day by day basis for the next >6 months10:03
DocScrutinizerand it's maximum boring to me10:03
lolloonop10:03
lolloosmartphone and tablets and laptops10:03
Gh0stywhy is it boring? :/10:03
johnxlolloo, there's a tablet UX again?10:03
lollooatom based intel cpu10:03
lollooalso arm cpu10:04
lollooits the next big thing for nokia and intel10:04
Gh0styyeah yeah yeah10:04
lollooto blow away competition10:04
Gh0styheard that marketing blabla10:04
Gh0styI don't like marketing :p10:04
lollooeven AMD is joining the force10:04
DocScrutinizertake it to #meego please!10:04
lollooso it's intel+amd+nokia10:05
lolloo= MeeGo10:05
Gh0stylolloo: its ok stop it here10:05
Gh0styi joined meego as well10:05
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Gh0styyou can continue there10:05
lolloomaemo guys should join us too10:06
DocScrutinizerwhy?10:06
johnxlolloo, the interested ones have10:06
lolloono point in making another maemo apps now10:06
* RST38h notices that pretty much any available information on Meego can be found with google search10:06
lolloostart making apps for meego10:06
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: what is your daily occupance infact? :p10:06
RST38hit is allin the open10:06
Gh0styyou are an embedded developer or something?10:06
DocScrutinizerlolloo: stop talking BS!10:07
lollooits not BS10:07
lollooMeeGo 1.2 is near10:07
DocScrutinizerso WHAT?10:07
lolloofor netbooks, phones, laptops10:07
Gh0stylolloo: I have to agree with DocScrutinizer ... since meego is NOT ready for N900 ... I want my phone to work right now ... not in 6 months!10:07
johnxlolloo, I'm already hacking on meego stuff and you're still annoying10:08
DocScrutinizerlolloo: if you come here to rant about maemo being useless then piss off10:08
RST38hDoc: I have fixed lolloo guy by the way10:08
RST38hDoc: /ignore does wonders10:08
johnxlolloo, the best thing you can do is lead by example10:08
chxyou think meego will be ready in six months?10:08
Gh0styand screw all other devices, I have my n900 now, I want it working the way I want it, thats what open source stands for in my mind ... not that the phone forces me to change my ways ...10:08
chxif wishes had wings...10:08
* Termana sets mode +o Termana10:09
* johnx hears crickets chirping ...10:10
Gh0styok back to maemo now :p10:10
lolloohttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.80/1.1.80.9.20101207.1/handset/images/10:10
lolloothis is latest iamge for N90010:10
lollooimage*10:10
lollooits dated 7 december10:10
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lollootry it out guys10:10
johnxlolloo, please stop talking, for your own good10:10
TermanaHere comes the real thing10:10
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Gh0styaccording to luke-jr its not possible to retrieve the cell you are connected without activating the gps10:11
Gh0styis that right?10:11
DocScrutinizernot sure about it10:11
TermanaI think that's wrong10:11
RST38hprobblynot10:11
DocScrutinizerthere's netmon which will tell you the CID10:12
RST38hcell id hasnothingto dowith gps10:12
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Gh0styhe said that since the phone part is closed there is no way to get it without activating the gps10:12
DocScrutinizerthere's pnatd and some AT cmd to get CID info10:12
Gh0stybut then again i am not a developer so is there another way? :p10:12
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: ^^^10:13
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: ^^^^10:13
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Gh0stywhat I was thinking about yesterday is a binary (we called it "whatcelltower") which just returns the CID10:13
Gh0stybut since I'm not a code guru I'm afraid ... that is outside of my capabilities10:14
Gh0styanyone can fix me such a thing?10:14
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: xterm: pnatd<enter>10:14
DocScrutinizergoogle 3gpp at cmds10:15
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DocScrutinizeror simply install netmon10:15
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Gh0stymy idea is to implement the same functionality I have on my E65 (symbian) with some programm ...10:16
Gh0styI now use alarmed that it turns off my modem when it's say 22h10:17
Gh0styI wanna sleep, not get calls ... :p10:17
* DocScrutinizer sighs10:17
Gh0stybut ... when I'm not yet home ... it should not turn it off yet10:18
Gh0styfor obvious reasons :)10:18
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Gh0styDocScrutinizer: what? :p10:18
Gh0styI am a linux sysadmin and my lifestyle is: script once ... never do again (by hand)10:19
ShadowJKCellID, LAC and the other things are sent out on dbus when they change10:19
Gh0stywell I would just set alarmed to run at 22h a script10:19
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ShadowJKMaybe luke meant translating CellID into a location. I think the location subsystem just asks a nokia server for that info10:20
Gh0stycheck if cell = home -> turn off the modem10:20
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Gh0styif cell != home -> some backof algorithm which polls every ... 15 minutes or so to see if I'm home10:20
johnxGh0sty, why not use your home wifi network as the trigger instead?10:20
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DocScrutinizerGh0sty: do you read any of the answers posted here? or do you monologue on10:21
Gh0styhome wifi is not always on and then you need to enable wifi ... which drains battery10:21
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AnAnt_Hello, is it true that N900 phones do not support arabic language ?10:21
Gh0styShadowJK: possible that luke-jr misinterpreted my idea10:22
DocScrutinizersupport is spare if any I guess10:22
Gh0styinteresting to know that cellID and LAC are sent on dbus :)10:22
johnxAnAnt_, Nokia doesn't officially support it, as far as I know10:22
Gh0stythat could have some nice fixes for my second part of the idea ...10:23
Gh0stythe application on the E65 also could switch to other profile when entering a cell and leaving a cell10:23
Gh0styfor example I fixed the cells around our cinema in town ... it goes directly into meeting mode profile ...10:24
AnAnt_johnx: how about non-officially ?10:24
Gh0styand a friend uses that for his bluetooth: when he's not @ work or @ home his bluetooth get enabled cause he's probably in the car ... with a bluetooth handsfree kit10:24
johnxAnAnt_, googling shows some results, but I don't use Arabic support, so I don't know how well it works10:25
johnxGh0sty, so that when you're waiting for your friend outside the movie theater you'll miss their call telling you they'll be late?10:26
Gh0stymeeting mode vibrates :p10:26
Gh0styand yes that is the downside perhaps but its perfectly acceptable to me :p10:27
AnAnt_johnx: thanks10:27
AnAnt_so, Maemo is Debian based, right ?10:28
johnxAnAnt_, not really10:28
Gh0styhmmz I gotta read up some more on dbus it seems10:28
AnAnt_huh ?10:28
johnxit uses dpkg/apt-get, but it doesn't follow debian releases10:28
Gh0styeach time I find some interesting stuff to do with the n900 ... dbus is the answer10:28
AnAnt_so if I get a package from Debian, I cannot install it on Maemo ?10:28
johnxso you'll find different software, packaged differently10:29
johnxAnAnt_, that might work for a couple very simple packages, but probably won't work for anything graphical10:29
johnxyou might also be interested in "easy debian" which is some kind of debian chroot for the n90010:29
AnAnt_I see10:30
Gh0styhaha easy debian :)10:31
Gh0stynice10:31
* Gh0sty is wondering what packages one would want extra from a debian on maemo) 10:31
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Gh0styeven the "obscure" things like iodine I've seen in repositories for maemo :p10:32
johnxGh0sty, you haven't happened to see a screen package, have you?10:32
AnAnt_Gh0sty: iodine ?10:33
Gh0stytcp over dns10:33
Gh0styor dns tunnels10:33
SwedeMikeip over dns10:33
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Gh0styat a lot of places in europ you'll find hotspots which you have to pay for ...10:34
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Gh0styusually these allow connections over dns10:34
Gh0styif you have a box elsewhere with an iodine client listening on dns you can tunnel through such hotspots without paying10:35
Gh0stythe downside is the connection is very slow ...10:35
Gh0stybut hey ... for IRC for example thats just enough :p10:35
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Gh0styhmm lemme see there is no screen in the repos? :o10:36
johnxuhm, never mind10:36
johnxobviously I'm crazy, since now that I look I already have it installed ...10:36
Gh0stylol10:36
johnxguess the mind really is the first thing to go ...10:37
Gh0styhappened to me last week too :p10:37
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: http://www.ctiforum.com/standard/standard/etsi/0707.pdf 7.2 p38;  pnatd AT+CREG=2 \n AT+CREG?10:37
johnxit's in tools, I didn't take the plunge to turning on the tools repo until recently10:37
DocScrutinizer+CREG: 2,1,"CA66","A002"10:37
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: probably there's an even btter AT cmd than +creg10:38
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Gh0styif what ShadowJK says is true it should be available through DBUS10:38
Gh0styso I'll have to look into that ...10:39
DocScrutinizeryes, but that's async, means you need to monitor dbus and keep track. You wont see this msg on dbus at 22:00:0010:39
DocScrutinizerit's sent on dbus when CID is *changing*10:39
johnxso you might want to look at dbus-scripts or something like that10:40
DocScrutinizerI sugest you look into netmon source10:40
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Gh0styDocScrutinizer: installing netmon as we speak :p10:41
DocScrutinizerdbus-scripting could set a flag file "at-home" to /tmp or whatever, when seeing correct cellID, and delete that file on seeing any wrong cellID10:41
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: indeed thats what I was thinking10:41
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johnxthen have alarmed call you at the appropriate time10:42
DocScrutinizeror you go direct way to cellmo and ask it via pnatd about current cellID10:42
Gh0stybut still I'd need help of someone who wants to make it a gui app :p10:42
DocScrutinizerwith AT+CREG? or any beter siuted command10:42
Gh0stybut ok the info you gave me guys is great news!10:43
lardmanmorning all10:43
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DocScrutinizerGh0sty: my fee is 70bucks/h10:43
Gh0stysince luke told me that it would require worse procedures :p10:43
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: you can make it in 1 h? :p10:43
DocScrutinizerprobably yes, maybe 210:43
Gh0styhmm thats a little too much :p10:44
Gh0styor wait10:44
Gh0stybucks is dollar or euro? :p10:44
johnxthose two numbers are more reasonable then you'd hear from just about anyone else10:44
DocScrutinizeryeah, and doesn't cover the overhead for shipping and invoice writing10:44
AnAnt_anyone tried installing Ubuntu on N900 ?10:44
Gh0styubuntu for crying out loud :o10:45
TermanaDocScrutinizer: shipping :p10:45
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: shipping? :o10:45
AnAnt_Gh0sty: ?10:45
Gh0styI would even like it to be opened :P10:45
DocScrutinizerreas that as "I'm not interested"10:45
AnAnt_Gh0sty: I'm not a native english speaker, so I don't understand the expression10:45
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srbakerheya folks10:46
Termanawhat DocScrutinizer means by "shipping and invoice writing" is "beer and curry fund"10:46
Gh0styAnAnt_: what would you like to do with ubuntu on n90010:46
srbakeris there a list of hardware that runs latest maemo?10:46
Termanasrbaker, the N90010:46
Gh0styits not optimized for running on a phone like system10:46
AnAnt_Gh0sty: run apps that I am used to10:46
Termanaand the Zoom II but I doubt you have one of those10:46
johnxAnAnt_, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ARM/n90010:46
srbakerTermana:  are they unlocked? or easy to get unlocked?10:47
Termanasrbaker, what? The N90010:47
johnxsrbaker, the N900 or Zoom II?10:47
TermanaIt is unlocked10:47
srbakerthe n90010:47
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: those 70 bucks is dollar?10:47
Termanasrbaker, http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N900-Unlocked-Computer-Touchscreen/dp/B002OB49SW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=mobile&qid=1292057269&sr=1-1-catcorr10:47
DocScrutinizerthose 70bucks is gold nuggets10:48
srbakerso i don't have to do anything to load my own stuff on it?10:48
TermanaAll N900's are unlocked10:48
srbakerthat would be awesome10:48
TermanaYes, it's "unlocked" in that sense as well10:48
Gh0stynono that IS awesome :p10:48
srbakerokay10:48
srbakerthat sounds totally awesome.10:49
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: I was silly enough to offer that dumping quotation, you missed your choice to take me by the word10:49
srbakeri think i'm going to ditch my Nexus One10:49
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: I don't mind :)10:49
Gh0styits clearly not your cup of soup so if you gotta make something against your will ... :p10:49
DocScrutinizerI toldya about several valid ways to approach the problem yourself10:50
Gh0styyes yes I am looking ...10:50
Gh0styI first want to figure out some stuff like how to get it from dbus and from that netmon app10:50
DocScrutinizerI stated you're a scripting guy, at least one of my solutions was scripting compliant10:50
Gh0styand then I'll decide on an approach10:51
DocScrutinizers/I/you/10:51
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: you stated you're a scripting guy, at least one of my solutions was scripting compliant10:51
Gh0styyep you're right about that :)10:51
DocScrutinizeryou went on whining for a GUI10:51
johnxGh0sty, if you can script, you could probably knock up a python+Qt UI10:51
Gh0styi'm still learning py10:52
DocScrutinizeryou might have gotten away with asking me for a script PoC10:52
Gh0styi'm still a hardcore bash guy :p10:52
johnxwhat do you script in usually?10:52
DocScrutinizerbut a GUI?? no way dude10:52
Gh0styjohnx: I work on servers. usually require no gui ...10:52
Gh0stybut in this case a gui would be a nice extra (I was just thinking out loud DocScrutinizer)10:53
johnxGh0sty, do the sh bit, then post that working thing to t.m.o and see if you can find someone to write the GUI10:53
johnxbut honestly, python isn't harder than sh10:53
lardmananyone here know how the QPushButton works in its deepest darkest depths?10:53
srbakerwow. i really like the n90010:53
srbakeri'm assuming there are some binary blob drivers for the gsm and stuff, right?10:53
DocScrutinizerlardman: yeah! It executes binary commands in a thing called CPU10:54
chxsrbaker: welcome to the club! we are in love with the N900/10:54
Termanasrbaker, not for the GSM, unless you include the blob you flash to the modem10:54
Gh0styjohnx: yes thats what I'm looking into right now ... but first gotta study dbus a bit ... my knowledge about dbus is very limited ...10:54
Gh0stylast week I found the dbus commands to turn off the modem without the wifi bits10:54
Termanasrbaker, GSM userspace has been opened (well, technically not Maemo's, but ofono works)10:54
johnxsrbaker, yeah, binaries for the GSM, the 3D stuff, and ... maybe something else I'm forgetting10:54
lardmanDocScrutinizer: ok, let's move up a layer or two of abstraction to how it changes colour when it's pressed10:54
Gh0stynow lets try a trigger from dbus ... but I saw already some info around that10:54
srbakerokay. so besides firmware anything not open?10:54
Termanasrbaker, BME10:54
Gh0stysrbaker: the phone parts10:55
TermanaGh0sty, WRONG10:55
lardmansrbaker: most ui apps have a closed veneer10:55
srbakerwhat's BME?10:55
lardman~bme10:55
infoboti guess bme is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME10:55
lardmanbattery management entity anyway10:55
srbakerah10:55
srbakerokay.10:55
srbakerbut mostly free/open10:55
srbakerthat's good enough10:55
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: there's a thing called dbus-scripting. It's a comfy package to install10:55
lardmanthe underlying stuff is free, but the uis are closed, which is annoying10:56
DocScrutinizerconfigure it with a few files in /etc10:56
lardmansrbaker: but you can always replace stuff, and Meego should be coming soon in a non-official capacity10:56
srbakercool10:56
srbakeris there tethering support?10:56
DocScrutinizersrbaker: bme is a closed blob10:57
lardmanSo really, how is the QPushButton colour change implemented? Does it use events as I'm trying to work out if my Python scripting code is receiving events or not10:57
Termanasrbaker, basically, it's free enough that you can load another distro on there - MeeGo, SHR, Debian, hell we have one person using Gentoo here10:57
DocScrutinizergoogle for jrbme10:57
srbakercool. i'm a debian guy10:57
lardmansrbaker: yeah I imagine so, no idea how mind you10:57
johnxsrbaker, bt-dun, usb and wifi hotspot, though some people have trouble with hotspot I guess10:57
johnxsrbaker, now, the other distros aren't all that *usable* day-to-day for non-hackers ;)10:58
srbakerwlel, i want to hak10:58
srbakerhack10:58
Termanajohnx, that's not *entirely* true10:58
srbakerbut i don't want to miss a call because i was fucking with my phone10:58
srbaker:P10:58
lardmanwell don't have HAM open ;)10:58
DocScrutinizersrbaker: that never works out10:59
Termanalardman, the rule of thumb for everyone is to install FAPMAN anyhow10:59
DocScrutinizerblargh10:59
Termanalardman, it's faster than HAM and has a great name10:59
lardmanTermana: yeah, shame it can't do autoupdates though10:59
johnxTermana, meaning Meego or one of the other things you listed?10:59
lardmanTermana: in fact it's the backend that bring the N900 to its knees, as I've seen the same effect (though not so bad) with fapman too11:00
DocScrutinizerlardman: ack11:00
DocScrutinizerapt-worker-thread to be specific11:00
Termanajohnx, I'm sure luke-jr would dispute that Gentoo is usable day-to-day. SHR nearly is with a couple of more things to be done to it. MeeGo, as soon as power management is added I expect the 1.2 release to be *OK*11:00
DocScrutinizerhahaha11:01
johnxTermana, so that's "not-yet-but-soon" on all counts?11:01
Termanajohnx, well I suppose :p11:01
TermanaWith probably different rates of soon :p11:02
DocScrutinizerTermana: s/*OK*/somewhat ok for a first show-off at a keynote (if you pray everything runs smoothly)/11:02
DocScrutinizerhell, I'm not even sure maemo is *OK* for a day by day usage11:03
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DocScrutinizerstill no cell broadcast support11:03
* lardman waits for day-to-day usable Meego to hack on apps11:03
DocScrutinizerfor a first point that comes to mind11:04
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lardmananyone know how slot/signals are implemented in Qt C++?11:05
DocScrutinizerthe whole cal-ui and cal-history and contacts blobs are so... eeeew11:05
DocScrutinizerand you talk about meego? being *OK*? on 1.2?11:05
DocScrutinizerHAH11:05
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: I don't see that dbus-scripting package in my current repositories (I have all I think: extras, extras devel and extras testing?11:05
DocScrutinizerhmm11:06
Gh0styor are there more obscure out there?11:06
Gh0styI see however something called dbus-script-extras but that appears a gui application by the description :p11:06
johnxGh0sty, use apt-cache search instead of the app manager11:07
TermanaDocScrutinizer: Personally, I find Maemo perfectly fine for day-to-day use and MeeGo 1.2 assuming it had power management sorted out would be fine for me as well.11:07
johnxTermana, that makes you a hacker, hence the second part of my statement11:07
Gh0styfapman does not see some apps11:07
Gh0sty?11:07
johnxGh0sty, dunno. try the command line11:07
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DocScrutinizer51dbus-scripts with 'gui' dbus-scripts-settings11:12
Gh0styhmm the cli tools give a lot more indeed :p11:12
DocScrutinizer51forget the gui, it's flawed11:12
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DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# apt-cache search '.*dbus-script.*'11:13
DocScrutinizerdbus-scripts - Run scripts on system dbus activity11:13
DocScrutinizerdbus-scripts-settings - A GUI configuration program for dbus-scripts.11:13
Gh0styyou meanth the package dbus scripts?11:13
Gh0styyes ok that I see through cli indeed :)11:13
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Gh0stywas assuming you could see all stuff through fapman ... guess not :(11:14
DocScrutinizerforget fapman as well11:14
Gh0stywhy? :p11:14
DocScrutinizerdunno why I removed it after 20 minutes, but for sure there was a reason11:15
Gh0stybtw I just got a look at my sources.list11:15
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Gh0stybehind the extras it says fremantle-1.311:15
DocScrutinizeryes11:15
DocScrutinizernormal11:15
Gh0stybehind all the other extras it just says fremantle11:15
DocScrutinizeryes11:15
Gh0styis that needed or not?11:15
DocScrutinizeralso normal, regrettably11:15
Gh0styso I should leave it?11:15
DocScrutinizernokia decided the testing and devel repo isn't worth keeping a 1.2 compliant version, when moving on to 1.3 :-(11:16
Gh0styoh but if I just put fremantle on the extras it'll work just fine?11:17
Gh0styonly pull in more stuff ?11:17
DocScrutinizerthat's why I never can go back to my 1.2 system completely, when eventually I upgrade to 1.311:17
Gh0styor is that just symlinked?11:17
DocScrutinizeras my 1.2 system has several pkgs from devel that aren't available anymore, so restore will fail to intall them11:18
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AnAnt_so you were saying that Debian binary packages aren't necessarily compatible with Maemo , is that the same for source packages ?11:18
DocScrutinizera very weird thinking about backwards compatibility11:18
AnAnt_johnx: ^11:18
johnxAnAnt_, yes11:19
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lardmanAnAnt_: they can't be compatible unless they are for the correct arch, and even then packages for Debian arm may have a different abi11:19
johnxdifferent software versions, different libraries available11:20
johnxdifferent interfaces (no alsa, for example)11:20
AnAnt_lardman: erm, Debian has arm & armel archs in their repository if I recall properly11:20
johnxGLES2 instead of GL11:20
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DocScrutinizerI heard it simply wasn't worth the effort for Nokia to keep the 1.2 devel & testing repo the same way they did for the extras repo11:21
DocScrutinizerwhich sounds... err... odd, to be polite11:21
AnAnt_ is   gstreamer on Maemo ?11:21
* DocScrutinizer growls11:22
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DocScrutinizernow you got me started on this annoying topic again11:22
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AnAnt_so Maemo is sort of a spin-off from Debian ? It's not like the Ubuntu-Debian relation where Ubuntu syncs from Debian from time to time, and try to keep the diff small11:23
toadpolehey anyone know a pc software like cutetube that'll allow me to queue up downloads?11:24
DocScrutinizerI wonder if maemo/Nokia can't afford to hire one single competent system administrator who has a clue about how to manage system version migrations11:24
lardmanAnAnt_: yes Maemo uses GStreamer as the audio pipeline11:25
lardmanAnAnt_: while it probably was based on Debian originall (iirc)  (it uses debs afterall) there is no attempt to keep any compatibility now11:26
johnxAnAnt_, it's been split from debian since 2007 or earlier11:26
lardmanI seem to remember that the 770 was binary compatible pretty much11:27
lardmanlong time ago anyway11:27
AnAnt_I see11:27
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DocScrutinizerwhat does ubintu? sync from debian? I wonder what that process might look like11:28
AnAntDocScrutinizer: during the development of a new release, there is a phase in which Ubuntu syncs/merges from Debian11:29
AnAntDocScrutinizer: but Ubuntu tries to minimize the merges by sending the patches to Debian11:30
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DocScrutinizer"look here, we got a buntkuh file for xy.so with 800 lines, and a debian file for same driver, with 900 lines. OK let's use the debian then" or throw dice?11:30
AnAnt?11:30
AnAntI don't understand11:30
johnxDocScrutinizer, eh?11:31
DocScrutinizerther's exactly one way to "sync" and that's called sending patches upstream11:31
DocScrutinizerand you hardly can do it evry once in a while11:31
bigbrovardoes anyone knows how I can get my gps coordinate from the N900. It only displays my location and the gps coordinate shows for a few secs and disappears. How can I get data about my gps coordinate?11:31
DocScrutinizerwe tried that on Openmoko, and it was a nightmare11:31
DocScrutinizerbigbrovar: use any app that shows the lon/lat/alt values? E.G. location test app11:34
thpis it possible to hide received sms (from eventlog + notifications) and process them using scripts?11:35
Termana"ther's exactly one way to "sync" and that's called sending patches upstream" <- that's not true at all11:35
DocScrutinizeror probably any of the other perceived 50 apps that can do that11:35
TermanaAnother way you can sync is to start on the base, with a delta and eventually merge the updated base and sort back out your delta11:36
DocScrutinizerthp: good question, seems somebody asked same thing yesterday11:36
thpDocScrutinizer: was there an answer? should i look into the irclogs?11:36
bigbrovarDocScrutinizer: I have no idea I just want to know if there is a way I can get my gps coordinate maybe some command I can run which would display this11:36
TermanaDocScrutinizer: for example - Android's Linux kernel does this, it is also the official Ubuntu process, the fact that they also merge things back upstream is irrelevant to the syncing process of Ubuntu11:37
thpsivang: ping11:37
DocScrutinizerthp: the answer was... unclear. I guessed I heard about some app triggering device erase on revception of a secret key sms11:37
johnxbigbrovar, open up app manager. search for the word location11:38
DocScrutinizeror the word gps11:38
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bigbrovarjohnx: DocScrutinizer I would do that thanks11:39
DocScrutinizerthp: so yes there seems to be a way11:39
thpDocScrutinizer: thanks :)11:40
DocScrutinizerbut it's rather unclear what hat way would look like11:40
DocScrutinizerthp: for the hiding part, that might be even more obscure11:42
thpi'm thinking of a twitter wall app, just that posting is done via sms (i.e. "sms wall")11:42
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thpand that should ideally run directly from tv out, so i'd like to hide notifications and process the incoming events and display it in the app11:43
DocScrutinizerI guess it's hard to intercept the inbound SMS before it triggers all sorts of evens somewhere inside some Nokia proprietary blob that deals with SMS11:43
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thpi mean, patching hildon-desktop to hide *all* notifications surely does the trick, but I don't want to go that far11:44
DocScrutinizeryou maybe can completely disable the process that usually deals with SMS (rtcom-*-foo), and get rid of notifications etc for *all* SMS11:44
lardmanAnyone familiar with power kernel here? I'd like to install u-boot with it, but I have version 4611:44
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DocScrutinizerumm, that's a problem mostly related to uBoot, not to pk11:46
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DocScrutinizeruBoot has to offer some tool to merge itself on head of kernel11:47
thpfound something for hiding the notifications: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=821709&postcount=511:47
lardmanI'm just wondering if there's a way to install pk+uboot11:47
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Jay_BEElardman: i don't think a separate uboot package exists for pk, so you will need to install pk 45 to get uboot11:49
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lardmanI see u-boot-for-power-kernel in the repo?11:50
alteregoIf you prepare the kernel you can make any kernel uboot enablleed.11:50
lardmanwhat do you mean by prepare?11:50
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Jay_BEE[01:49]<lardman>I see u-boot-for-power-kernel in the repo?  <-- O RLY?  but then I don't have extra-devel enabled...11:52
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lardmanI'm just loathe to run random apps with kernel in the name if I don;'t know what they do ;)11:53
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DocScrutinizerthp: thanks - bookmarked :-D11:57
maybeHerehttp://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/photogalleries/100524-new-species-handfish-walk-science-pictures/#/new-handfish-species-pink_20881_600x450.jpg deep ones!11:58
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* Jay_BEE fires up HAM to find u-boot for power-kernel12:00
DocScrutinizerlardman: as mentioned above, uBoot is plumbed to head of kernel partition in NAND. So you need to somehow create a image file consisting of 1)uBoot, and 2)your preferred kernel, and flash that. On uBoot howto/faq this process should be described12:00
lardmanyeah I've just read that stuff on TMO12:00
lardmanalong with warnings about hw revisions12:00
lardmanI think I'll just see if I can find v 45 and install that rather than messing about and creating my own12:01
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alteregowhy are copies from emmc to sd so fscking slow12:01
DocScrutinizerbug12:01
alteregoIs it faster with the file manager than with cp?12:02
DocScrutinizerfsckng slow is a euphemism12:02
DocScrutinizerevery now and then they literally freeze your device12:02
alteregoyeah12:02
alteregoI get maybe 1M ever 4 seconds12:03
alteregowith cp12:03
DocScrutinizerseems thing go bonkers as soon as filesize to cp > free memory * N12:03
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alteregoHeh12:04
alteregoI wonder if dd would be better12:04
DocScrutinizerwhere N is any factor 0<N<5012:04
DocScrutinizerrsync is said to be better, when given a bandwidth parameter12:04
DocScrutinizerdd also froze my device12:05
DocScrutinizeriirc12:05
alteregoyou can do that with dd though right?12:05
DocScrutinizermaybe dd with a small bs is ok. Never tested it12:06
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alteregoI might give it a go in a bit.12:07
DocScrutinizerit's somehow related to concurrent access, free memory, and swap12:07
DocScrutinizeralterego: please report back on your findings12:07
alteregowill do12:07
DocScrutinizerthis being a major PITA12:07
alteregoindeed12:08
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alteregoI'd really like pv about now ^.^12:09
Jay_BEEhmm... new version of mhs12:09
DocScrutinizerpv?12:09
alteregopv measures throughput through a pip12:10
alterego~pipe12:10
infobotsomebody said pipe was in a odd location as well, but i dun mind much about that12:10
alteregocat some file | pv | cat > somefile12:10
alteregowould tell you bandwidth12:10
alteregoYou can also specify size to give you a progress indicator like say, wget.12:10
alteregoIt's very useful :)12:10
alteregoI like to use it with nc :)12:11
alteregoI get about 1M/s doing cp with root12:11
alteregoWhich is an improvement.12:12
Jay_BEEnew mhs adds patches for usb tethering... *moves on*12:12
alteregoWhat is this mhs you speak of?12:12
Jay_BEEmobilehotspot12:12
alteregoOh12:12
alteregogreat, now rm has blocked whilst deleting a file from mmc12:13
alteregos/mmc/micro sd/#12:13
* Jay_BEE grabs the latest modRana while extras-devel is enabled...12:15
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alteregoI think 1M/s is the best I'm gonna get.12:16
ShadowJKI thought usb tethering was a out of the box feature ...12:16
alteregoShadowJK: it is ;)12:16
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: one version yes12:17
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: inverse version no12:18
alteregoDocScrutinizer: would you be happy with my test results being based on: time dd blah blah ...12:18
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DocScrutinizeri'd be happy on a general advice how to make a `cp -rA /media/mmc1/someGBofMP3 ~user/MyDocs/mp3` not completely freeze the device12:19
ShadowJKecho 1 >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness before copy12:20
DocScrutinizernota bene even the cp itself froze12:20
DocScrutinizermight got fixed with any of the 1.3 kernel patches (I recall comments like "kernel OOPS after lots of IO")12:21
ShadowJKthat results in reboot :-)12:22
DocScrutinizerhmm12:22
DocScrutinizeryeah12:22
ShadowJKthis cp issue is just mmc/sd slowing down to 50 kbyte/sec under non-sequential loads, which the emmc will be seeing under any kind of high IO pressure12:23
DocScrutinizerwhat exactly does swappiness?12:23
* alterego wonders why we have experimental qt but not qtm ..12:24
jacekowskichanges willingness of system to push data to swap12:25
jacekowskiit works very closely with vfs_cache_pressure12:26
ShadowJK"It controls the level of page reclaim distress at which we decide to start reclaiming mapped pages."12:27
* ieatlint has had alcohol12:27
ShadowJKvfs_cache_pressure is mostly only relevant if you have large amounts of memory in slab...12:27
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ieatlinti've determined alcohol is good12:28
alteregoHeh12:29
alteregoSometimes12:29
ieatlintand an excellent way to deal with politics12:29
DocScrutinizerieatlint: after reading ShadowJK's citation the 4th time, I tend to agree and get me some as well12:29
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maybeHereieatlint: most politicians are way ahead of you12:30
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ieatlintmaybeHere: from what i've seen, not enough12:30
* DocScrutinizer ponders to ask wikipedia about definition of "page reclaim distress" and the meaning of "we decide to start reclaiming mapped pages."12:31
ieatlinti may not be christian, but xmas ales are awesome12:31
* DocScrutinizer got a itchy feeling that above citation is an antinom12:32
* alterego wants to have a go at cross compiling a debian base system12:32
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alteregoIs there something like deboostrap that'll do it for me ^.^12:33
* alterego looks into dpkg-cross12:35
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, at 100 memory is more equal, at 1, it's roughly speaking cache that's considered less worthy and thrown away12:35
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ShadowJKAt 100 in normal use there'll be an almt constant low level of swap activity going on. At 1 there'll be almost no swap activity until system really runs out of other stuff it can use12:36
ShadowJKa file copy is a pretty gigantic request for memory, at 100 it generates alot of swap activity, at 1 it will generate almost no swap activity12:37
DocScrutinizerhmm, ok. Thought as much12:37
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DocScrutinizerso at 100 the idiot kswapd is swapping out cp's buffers instead of cp writing out to the real file12:39
DocScrutinizeraiui12:39
DocScrutinizermaybe cp needs a patch to mark its buffers as not swappable?12:40
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ShadowJKno everything else except cp gets swapped out12:41
DocScrutinizerso cp should run just fine then12:41
ShadowJKwhy it doesn't respond, all the gui is no longer in ram12:41
toresbehm, I managed to make my phone unbootable...12:41
ShadowJKyeah except emmc bandwidth is 50k/s, takes awhile to complete a 90Meg transaction at that speed :)12:42
Termanainfobot, tell toresbe about flashing12:42
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: that's not exactly the issue. When copying to eMMC form any other source, I get good bandwidth12:43
ShadowJKoh?12:43
ShadowJKlike over network? doesn't count :)12:43
DocScrutinizerbah12:43
ShadowJKand mass-storage-mode doesn't count either :)12:44
toresbeTermana: so... toresbe@cobol:~$ flasher-3.5 -x Downloads/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin --flash-only=kernel -f -R12:44
DocScrutinizercase: cp via ass rage from uSD to eMMC -> freeze. cp via ass rage from uSD to external disk then to eMMC -> 12MB/s12:44
* ShadowJK ponders making cp use fadvise() to hint the files are used once only12:44
toresbeis that the right choice?12:44
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ShadowJKand untar big massive file emmc -> emmc = slow :)12:45
toresbeor will that cause my system to catch fir?12:45
toresbe...e?12:45
DocScrutinizerit won't work12:45
DocScrutinizerVANILLA has no kernel to flash-only12:46
jacekowskiyou can fix part of a problem12:47
jacekowskiset writeback times to high value12:47
jacekowskiso it waits12:47
toresbewell, my problem is that I installed the power kernel, and now my multiboot configuration didn't recognize it12:47
jacekowskiand then writes everything at once12:47
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toresbeso... how do I get my system booting again? :)12:48
DocScrutinizertoresbe: yeah, multiboot is a bitch. Kernel anyway is found in *COMBINED* img, not in *VANILLA*12:48
alteregoWell, looks like I can make a base debian system with hard fp support for the A8 :)12:48
alteregoIf I Can make it bootable today and boot it on the N900, I might seriously work on something.12:49
DocScrutinizertoresbe: *VANILLA* is basically only eMMC aka MyDocs12:49
toresbeDocScrutinizer: many thanks :)12:49
toresbeI'll just boot the Combined kernel, transfer my home directory to the SDHC card, and then completely reflash the device... I think it could do with a fresh install...12:50
alteregoDocScrutinizer: if I make decent progress, would you be willing to help me develop a debian system using meego components? ;)12:51
toresbeDocScrutinizer: (the PIM data files are in the home directory, right?)12:51
MohammadAGand /home(!)12:51
DocScrutinizerhome directory isn't affected by a standard rootfs flash12:51
MohammadAG/opt is cleared though12:52
DocScrutinizeryup12:52
DocScrutinizertoresbe: (PIM) I think so12:52
DocScrutinizeranyway you should use backup app to do a proper such backup12:52
DocScrutinizerbetter than just hoping for files in ~12:53
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DocScrutinizerthere are a few settings in fact that are stored in /etc et al, which will vanish on flashing rootfs12:54
toresbekthx. :)12:55
toresbeweird. It just exits after telling me the release version.12:55
toresbeFound device RX-51, hardware revision 210112:55
toresbeNOLO version 1.4.1412:55
toresbeVersion of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR012:55
DocScrutinizernot all of those are backup'd by backup app either. E.g LED patterns from LED pattern editor most likely are gone12:55
toresbeand then immediately exits, and leaves the N900 to boot as usual.12:55
MohammadAGtoresbe, windows?12:55
toresbeoooopie. I think I should be using -F rather than -x..12:56
DocScrutinizeryeah12:56
DocScrutinizerI already wondered12:56
MohammadAG-F image -f12:56
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DocScrutinizertoresbe: I also got big eyes looking at your prompt :-D12:58
toresbe?12:59
toresbeOh, the hostname? :)12:59
DocScrutinizeryour box called cobol?12:59
toresbeyeah, all my laptops are programming languages ending in -ol12:59
DocScrutinizerooh12:59
DocScrutinizer:-D12:59
toresbemy desktop/servers are fortran, joss, python, simula, apl, logo...13:00
toresbeI have a PDP-11 which of course has the hostname "basic"... :)13:00
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Gh0styperhaps a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway ... something I've been wondering about since I bought the device13:02
Gh0stycan't we do IP over the usb connection?13:02
toresbeoooooh, it booted! \o/13:02
Gh0styin stead of connecting to wifi that I can ssh to it over the usb13:02
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: see wiki, usb-networking13:05
jaskashouldnt the pdp be "bliss"?:)13:05
toresbejaska: no, that's one of my VAXen :)13:05
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DocScrutinizertoresbe: you inherited all my hw museum?13:06
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toresbeMore or less13:07
DocScrutinizerheh, got one of these as well? http://www.tentacle.franken.de/m80/index.html13:08
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toresbeDocScrutinizer: only a scaled-down relative.13:09
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toresbeActually, that was lost in a move. But I do have the keyboard still.. with its literal key13:09
DocScrutinizernever knew there were scale-downs13:09
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DocScrutinizerexcept the windows-based emulator13:10
toresbeit may have been a very distant relative. but it was made by Siemens and the terminal is identical.13:10
Jay_BEEi wish there was an angry birds meetup nearby13:10
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DocScrutinizerdid it know /boot, /start <program name>, /stop <process number> etc?13:11
MohammadAGJay_BEE, it'll end up as flame wars between iOS, Android, Symbian, and maemo users13:12
Jay_BEEhehehe so true13:12
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DocScrutinizertoresbe: I used to code a lot in COBOL, when developing stuff for those M-series Siemens monsters13:13
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DocScrutinizerin the 80s though13:14
toresbenice13:14
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DocScrutinizerthat's why I got curious about your prompt13:14
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i've done that once13:25
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i mean cobol, and it was painful13:25
DocScrutinizer-8yeah, cobol is awkward13:26
DocScrutinizer-8you need your special tricks to cope with it.  e.g. ". note ."13:28
DocScrutinizer-8othewise you always miss these important .13:28
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DocScrutinizer-8also 8 used copy a lot13:29
DocScrutinizer-8I13:29
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DocScrutinizer-8in the end I used a preprocessor plus my own data dictionary to manage the whole project's linkage sections13:32
DocScrutinizer-8and interanl variable definitions13:32
DocScrutinizer-8plus a lot of includes (external functions) written in assembler :-P13:34
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DocScrutinizerIF (a > b) THEN MOVE a TO c, ELSE MOVE b TO c . NOTE END-IF.13:40
DocScrutinizeris something completely different than13:40
DocScrutinizerIF (a > b) THEN MOVE a TO c. ELSE MOVE b TO c . NOTE END-IF.13:41
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Jay_BEEto bed I go.. zzz13:48
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alteregoOkay, cross compiling glibc (same as latest ubuntu release) for arm cortex a8 with hardfp ..13:52
MohammadAGanyone got sources for an N900 screen?13:53
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alteregoMohammadAG: did you do ubuntu for N900?13:59
MohammadAGalterego, 9.10 yes14:00
MohammadAGit's not fully working, but it works14:00
alteregoI'm working on cross compiling a 10.10 base with cortex a8 hardfp optimizations14:00
MohammadAGwhy not just use the precompiled image from ubuntu.com?14:01
alteregobecause hardfp will make it run faster14:02
alteregoHopefully a lot faster,14:02
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alteregoWith meego stack, I could call it meebuntu14:04
alteregoOr meetu14:04
alteregoI think meetu :)14:05
MohammadAGLOL14:05
alteregoIt should be api and abi compatible with meego armv7hl14:05
MohammadAGor ubugo14:06
MohammadAGsounds awkward14:06
MohammadAGubungo14:06
alteregoI prefer meetu :P14:07
MohammadAGmeethree14:08
alteregoIf only I had a decent internet connection :D14:08
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DocScrutinizer-8source for screen?14:13
DocScrutinizer-8metoo is copyrighted by me14:14
Corsacmetoo14:14
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DocScrutinizer-8MohammadAG: what is that screen source thing?14:17
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer-8, need a new screen14:18
DocScrutinizer-8ouch14:18
MohammadAGthere's this black area in mine14:18
MohammadAGlooks like water, not sure if it's water14:18
DocScrutinizer-8shit14:19
DocScrutinizer-8photo14:19
* MohammadAG takes screenshot14:20
MohammadAG:P14:20
DocScrutinizer-8take your thumb out there, we don't want your fingerprint in that screenshot! Wait what did I say?14:22
DocScrutinizer-8actually with that new technology MS has patented it would work: fingerprint reader14:23
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* lardman devours 5 days' worth of advent calendar chocolates14:25
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DocScrutinizer-8chocolate! roooaaaar14:27
lardmanit's revolutionary, those master chocolatiers at Lindt have developed a chocolate that is almost energy neutral because it takes so much effort to unwrap them14:27
DocScrutinizerhahaha14:28
DocScrutinizerI first time encounter a chocolate dependency I am used for tobacco so far only. And not a single piece of chocolate around. grrrr14:29
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DocScrutinizereven messing up my emglish grammer, but maybe you got what I meant anyway :-D14:30
lardman:)14:30
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* lardman downloads mmade14:31
lardmanor even madde14:31
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, http://i51.tinypic.com/zjz4zk.jpg14:34
MohammadAGzoom in on the bottom left corner14:34
DocScrutinizerwithout chocolate?14:35
lardmanIntel?14:35
Corsacimportant notice / intel14:35
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: hmm, hardly anything to see14:36
DocScrutinizerimpossible to tell what it is14:36
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, you'll see a gray line14:36
* MohammadAG curses the N814:36
MohammadAGof all camera phones, you'd think it'd have manual effing focus14:37
MohammadAGlooks better in meego :P14:37
DocScrutinizerlemme put it that way: if it's really water, then you can fix it and don't need a new screen14:37
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DocScrutinizerif it's not water, then you will have to find out what's broken, as it's not reasonable to get a whole new screen14:40
DocScrutinizerwhere screen == (LCD + touchpanel)14:40
DocScrutinizerthe tp is ~60EUR, the LCD ~90EUR iirc14:41
DocScrutinizeryou're better off to get a whole device, used maybe, for that money14:42
MohammadAGN8 doesn't pick it up :/ http://i53.tinypic.com/m9xe2t.jpg14:44
DocScrutinizer-8MohammadAG: get some rice, cook it, eat it. Then put the N900 on a heater or in your oven, @60C14:45
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer-8, only photo it's best visible in, http://i56.tinypic.com/25hpch4.jpg14:46
MohammadAGit actually goes along the bottom of the screen, not on the corner14:47
korhojoahm. i'd use silica gel and a desiccator14:50
SpeedEvilAt room temperature - even with 0 humidity - water evaporates slowly.14:53
SpeedEvilI recommend an oven at 60C or so.14:54
korhojoatrue, but it doesn't carry the risk of damaging anything14:54
SpeedEvilDo check before you put it in that the oven is really at 60C, not more14:54
korhojoaalso, regular oven at 60C, not likely14:54
SpeedEvilI've had the n900 operating at 60C14:54
SpeedEvilkorhojoa: quite likely IME14:54
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korhojoaeven the professional recirc ovens we use don't get even temperatures14:54
SpeedEvilkorhojoa: Most go down to 40C, for use rising bread14:54
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korhojoai didn't mean that the temperature is low, i meant that it's not stable14:55
SpeedEvilah14:55
korhojoai've also had mine at 60C14:55
korhojoaleft it in the car for half an hour in qatar :/14:55
SpeedEvilMine was in scotland, in the greenhouse.14:56
SpeedEvil:)14:56
korhojoapicked the thing up and almost burnt my hand14:56
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korhojoayeah. but the problem with the conventional oven is the ir heat too14:57
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SpeedEvilGood points.15:01
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DocScrutinizeryeah, you need to keep IR excessive radiation away from device. probably a good idea to place it inside a paper bag or box. OR simply place it into the air coming from your PC's fan, that's usually not too hot, and if you got a power monster it's still warm enough and for sure has no IR radiation15:03
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korhojoanot only does the temperature of the oven go 20 deg C to ~75 before the thermostat turns off and then it falls to around 50 before it clicks on again and goes up to around 70 again. repeat cycle.15:04
korhojoaDocScrutinizer, the computer fan is a good idea.15:04
korhojoai use my computers regularily to dry clothes15:04
DocScrutinizerhmm, 75° isn't dangerous yet. That's been taken into account when I suggested 60°15:05
korhojoano, not saying 75 is dangerous, just not liking the cycling15:05
korhojoaplastic doesn't love that15:05
DocScrutinizeranyway, I doubt that's water in MohammadAG 's screen. Probably mechanical defect from excessive pressure to the surface15:06
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DocScrutinizerthis can destroy either spacers, or the polarization of the electrodes15:07
korhojoathe lcd has been compressed so that some of the crystals are damaged15:07
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korhojoathat was supposed to have a "?" at the end.15:08
DocScrutinizerthere are no crystals. But there are invisible spacers that keep a certain distance between bottom and cover glass15:08
korhojoathe screen isn't a lcd screen?15:08
DocScrutinizeralso there's a microstructure in the electrodes which I called polarization. If it gets deformed then the LCD won't work anymore15:09
DocScrutinizeryou can't break *liquid* crystals15:09
korhojoawell. you can, but they should just reassemble15:10
korhojoaalso i thought it stood for a display that uses liquid and crystals, not liquid crystals15:10
korhojoahow wrong was i :D15:10
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Choomthey're both liquid AND crystal at the same time15:15
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Choomelectricity makes them change their patern which in turn changes the polarization of the light that passes through them15:16
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BCMMChoom: no, they are in a wholly separate phase of matter which is neither solid nor liquid15:23
ChoomI never implied phases of matter15:23
Choomactually I did, I said liquid15:24
BCMMwell, both liquid and crystal would imply something like slushy ice that contains both15:24
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BCMMwhereas an LC is actually a separate non-classical state of matter15:24
DocScrutinizer-8but technically it's a liquid15:25
DocScrutinizer-8and can't break15:25
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BCMMno, it is not a liquid15:26
BCMMis a different phase of matter, with certain characteristics of a liquid15:26
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BCMMthey can be fluids though15:27
DocScrutinizer-8so what do you think I ment by "technically"?15:27
BCMMDocScrutinizer-8: the opposite of "sorta"15:27
BCMMthey are sorta liquids, but technically not liquids15:27
DocScrutinizer-8physically not a liquid, but technically they are liquid15:28
BCMMthis is an odd use of technically15:28
DocScrutinizer-8hmm15:28
BCMM"liquid crystal" is usually classified as a state of matter, like solid, liquid or gas15:29
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BCMMthey aren't both solid and liquid; they are in a state which has similarities with both15:29
DocScrutinizer-8I handle them by same tools and methods I use for true liquids15:29
DocScrutinizer-8same techniques15:29
BCMMrather like the way a conventional liquid has similarities with both a gas and a solid15:29
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BCMMDocScrutinizer-8: you can also use plenty of models for both a gas and liquid15:30
DocScrutinizer-8a model is physics, not technic15:30
BCMMoh, an actual physical tool15:30
BCMMi think we are disagreeing over the use of technically, actually15:31
BCMMyou mean to say they are liquids for practical purposes, right?15:31
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MohammadAGalterego, remind me why I should contribute to MeeGo when the stock apps don't build?15:34
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alteregoMohammadAG: ?15:39
alteregoTo submit patches to make them build :P15:40
MohammadAGalterego, idk what's wrong15:40
MohammadAGand stock apps should build15:40
alteregoUnder what environment? Are you trying to build it under their SDK?15:40
MohammadAGPackage meegotouch was not found in the pkg-config search path.15:41
MohammadAGNo package 'meegotouch' found15:41
MohammadAGyes, SDK15:41
alteregoI presume you've not got libmeegotouch installed ..15:41
MohammadAGhow do I install it?15:41
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alteregopackage manager presumably15:43
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alteregoI think you should ask in #meego :P15:43
alteregoghey, can't change the armel arch tag without breaking glibc compilation.15:44
alteregoOh well, I'll use it for now15:44
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MohammadAGalterego, #meego seems like TMO the II15:47
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MohammadAGalterego, I expect them to know what madde is, since that's their default SDK15:47
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MohammadAGfail platform is fail15:48
crashanddieGun that shoots bullets at mach 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezqoaHsGOuQ15:48
alteregono it isn't15:48
alteregoWell, maybe for apps but not platform15:48
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alteregoYou probably need the platform sdk to build core apps15:48
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MohammadAGalterego, when I asked for that I got a link to MADDE15:49
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alteregoHeh15:49
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xDaReaperxEverywhere i go Facebook , gtalk , maemo .. everything looks dead16:08
xDaReaperxno ones on the internet16:08
GAN900Sshhh16:09
GAN900It's Saturday.16:09
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xDaReaperxlol okay ...16:34
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lcukGAN900, tell that to the person who phoned at 8am on saturday morning16:39
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rcgi have a problem that the changelog for one of my packages is not updated properly.. any ideas what to do?16:42
rcgmost probably ping X-Fade i suppose...16:42
lcukrcg ? just update the changelog?16:43
DocScrutinizero/ lcuk javispedro16:44
javispedromorning16:44
lcuk\o16:45
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* rcg1 curses his provider..16:45
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rcg1just in case this was lost due to the reconnect:16:46
rcg1i have a problem that the changelog for one of my packages is not updated properly.. any ideas what to do?16:46
rcg1most probably ping X-Fade i suppose...16:46
rcg1i.e. the changelog on the package website16:46
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lcukrcg1, which package (give link to packages page where its wrong would help..)16:47
rcg1http://maemo.org/packages/view/vumeter16:47
lcukand what is wrong with it?16:48
rcg1well the changelog is only displayed up to version 0.0.516:48
javispedrohttp://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/vumeter/0.10.1/16:49
javispedrothis one shows 0.10.1 changes only16:49
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lcukand the 0.9 build is similar16:51
lcukonly showing change in that version16:51
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rcgsigh..16:53
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rcglcuk: sorry.. provider keeps disconnecting me :S16:56
lcukrcg sounds like what happens with your changelog16:57
lcukthe "log" part of the name indicates you keep all the changes in that file16:57
javispedrohttp://www.dilbert.com/fast/2010-12-11/16:57
lcukand not clean it for every version16:57
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DocScrutinizerthe log is only for 0.0.x versions16:57
DocScrutinizerstarting with 0.1.0 it stalls16:58
lcukDocScrutinizer, it does same on 0.9 too16:58
rcglcuk: actually, i do this the same way also with other packages... this is the first one which fails in that way16:59
DocScrutinizerlcuk: ??16:59
DocScrutinizerit does what with 0.9?16:59
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lcukrcg, well thats not the way that changelogs roll17:00
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DocScrutinizerI see versions in changelog on http://maemo.org/packages/view/vumeter/, from 0.0.1 .. 0.0.5. Next version is 0.1.0 and that's the first one missing17:00
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lcukDocScrutinizer, look in the source packages17:00
DocScrutinizerwhy?17:01
lcukthe changelog in 0.10 and 0.9 at least are both just a single entry17:01
lcukand not a log of all history17:01
rcgafaik, i update the changelog for each version with the changes of that particular version and then the website/autobuilder whatever takes care of concatenating17:01
rcgthats how it worked out with all packages i uploaded so far17:01
rcgthats also how it worked out with versions 0.0.1-517:02
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DocScrutinizerwell, I guess somebody must have edited something, to make that version jump from 0.0.5 to 0.1.017:05
DocScrutinizerthe automatism would have created 0.0.617:06
DocScrutinizerI guess somethink broke during that process17:06
DocScrutinizers/ink/ing/17:07
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: I guess something broke during that process17:07
GAN900lcuk, well, I'm at work, so meh. :P17:07
rcghmm.. just had a look at another package.. most probably i had a very big misunderstanding of how things should work and some robust mechanism in the autobuilder kept my pervious packages from failing in that way17:07
rcgwill give that a try17:08
GAN900Why do people seem to think modular mobile devices are a good answer.17:09
rcgi hope it doesn't mess things up more, though17:10
SpeedEvilYou mean modular hardware?17:10
SpeedEvilBecause they don't understand the costs.17:10
DocScrutinizerheh, and implications EE wise17:11
SpeedEvilIt's OK for prototypes, where you don't care if the size, weight, and price double.17:11
DocScrutinizeryep17:12
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DocScrutinizerever wondered why iPhone's battery isn't 'modular' aka swappable? simple matter of size17:12
BCMMand not just because that device isn't supposed to be user-anything-able?17:13
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DocScrutinizernah, you need a cover for the electronics to close it to battery compartment, you need a case on all sides of battery cell, plus you need a 4th layer called back cover that's user-removable17:15
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obsidiethwhats the go with web2sms and conversations17:16
DocScrutinizerfor a fixed battery you save the first 3 layers of plastic completely, plus you don't need fabcy latches etc for the cover17:16
obsidiethmy messages appear in there, but im not quite sure if messages i send aregoing through my web service or not.17:16
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: you can do it pccard style17:16
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: push it from side/bottom17:16
DocScrutinizerhmm, will save one layer, maybe17:17
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DocScrutinizerplus the fancy latches17:18
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RST38hAhha!  Riots!17:18
DocScrutinizerthere's no way to delay that trouble coming every day [FZ]17:19
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DocScrutinizerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiVFfOOm_GI17:21
javispedromorning RST38h17:21
SpeedEviljacekowski: And you add a seal, which can let in shit, or fall off.17:22
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RST38hmourning javispedro17:27
RST38hjavispedro: I do suspect that the accelerometer does not work in some games for the other reason than bad calibration17:27
javispedroRST38h: x-plane does work a bit better17:28
DocScrutinizerRST38h: and this nice version as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naFQ7KG_nHg&feature=related17:28
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RST38hjavis: XPlane worked for me before17:29
RST38hjavis: Check out the Hawx, has got weird touch screen and steering problems17:30
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RST38hjavis: Also check the Ground Effect, accelerometer broken there17:31
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sivangthp: pong17:44
SpeedEvilspot price of virgin that is17:44
SpeedEviloops17:45
sivangthp: I have to reelase my screen session, mail me :) cheers17:45
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MohammadAG32wd_to :/18:06
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rcglcuk: well, it was my fault to update the changelog properly. thanks for the hint.18:06
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lcukrcg, \o18:07
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NooBmonk3yafternooooooooooon alls18:33
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MohammadAGfuck18:43
MohammadAGdevice storage full18:43
MohammadAGon a saturday18:43
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Neccfast question: if i want to make custom icon to my .desktop shortcut, what size of icons (.png files) do i need?18:54
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MohammadAGany, hildon should scale them down properly18:56
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MohammadAGjust put them in /usr/share/pixmaps18:57
NooBmonk3ylol i musta gone wrong then :P18:57
NooBmonk3yas it's clipped healthchecks ;)18:57
Neccso enough if i make an 160x160px image (for example) and hildon will do the rest automatically?18:57
MohammadAGyes, not sure about pre maemo 5, but m5 does it fine18:58
MohammadAGi use 164x164 sometimes18:58
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lcukm5 does not always scale19:03
lcukso use the expected size19:04
MohammadAGin the menu, it does19:04
lcukon the add shortcut dialog for desktop19:04
lcukit is unscaled19:04
lcukand looks odd19:04
javispedroalso, using the right size saves cpu time and memory.19:05
javispedroso, please do.19:05
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Neccwell it worked with larger size then needed, and not looks uggly19:12
Necc*ugly19:12
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MohammadAGNecc, apparently, it's not the right way :P19:13
Neccwhen i throwed tons of icons from amsn-source package into /opt/usr/share/icons all i got is the default blue square icon19:14
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javispedrointeresting19:18
javispedrothe way the media player sends stuff to tvout is done with a xv extension19:18
lcukNecc, check the order which you copy icons through19:18
javispedroso no need to fiddle with omapfb..19:18
alteregoWe knew that.19:18
alteregoI thought19:18
lcukit makes a difference, there have been numerous fixes attempted19:18
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MohammadAGjavispedro, it's actually gstreamer, not the media player itself afaik19:20
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javispedroMohammadAG: I think not, as all the gst stuff is open...19:22
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MohammadAGmplayer does the same i think19:23
MohammadAGor i'm mistaken19:23
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javispedromplayer doesn't use gst. either way, you can do it for any xv surface with xvattr19:23
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lcukjavispedro, whats the need for video out?19:28
lcukon maemo its automatic19:28
javispedronote I'm talking about the "trick" media player does19:28
javispedroit shows the videos full screen, and limited by the horrible 800x480->tvout scaling19:28
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javispedro*not limited19:28
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lcuk?19:29
javispedropreviously I thought mediaplayer talked with omapfb by itself, now I believe it talks using xv attributtes19:29
lcuktrick?19:29
lcukit is normal operation?19:29
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javispedronot for any xv surface..19:30
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lcukjavispedro, hm19:30
lcuki never noticed any issue19:30
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javispedrosay, if you use xv to render a 200x200 video, normal tvout mode clones the entire 800x480 screen19:31
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lcukjavispedro, but xv already scales up19:32
lcukor are you saying you get a postage stamp in the corner?19:32
* lcuk never experienced that19:32
javispedrowhat I mean is that uses different scales for tvout and n900 screen19:32
javispedrowith the tvout resolution being decoupled from the n900 one19:33
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javispedroon PAL for ex., it will use all 576 lines19:33
Jay_BEEgood morning (ugt)19:33
lcukjavispedro, but it will fill the screen in both cases?19:34
Arkenoiactually i'd prefer VGA out to composite video19:34
javispedrolcuk: not if your tv is 4:319:34
lcukjavispedro, hm? it does19:34
lcukI have 4:3 here19:34
lcukand the projector I used to have was 4:319:34
javispedrolcuk: you see top & bottom black bars when using n900 in an application (eg. the desktop)?19:34
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: alas there was no space left for a standard VGA sub-D connector19:34
lcukit just stretches as much as19:34
javispedrolcuk: now play a 4:3 video19:35
lcukjavispedro, a little, but thats expected since the source isnt 4:319:35
javispedrousing builtin mediaplayer19:35
javispedrowatch the bars disappear19:35
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* lcuk will test a little later on javispedro 19:37
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lcukhiya Meizirkki \o19:37
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, a small one with special cable is ok19:37
MeizirkkiHey lcuk19:37
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javispedrolcuk: what I'm talking about is that by default the n900 is on what on pc you'd call "clone mode". both screens are set to the same resolution.19:38
javispedrowhen playing a video using mediaplayer19:38
javispedroit is in "extend mode" instead, both screens not necessarily having the same resolution19:38
lcukjavispedro, I will check as I say19:39
javispedro(this is not entirely true as even in clone mode there's a rescaling as pal resolution is fixed)19:39
lcukmost amusing is sending different data to videoout as on the touchscreen :)19:39
javispedroeh.. yeah.19:40
javispedroI remember you saying that19:40
javispedrowhy you need to check it then? =)19:40
GAN900mirrored19:40
lcukjavispedro, checking what happens with lower resolution data19:40
lcuki know xv just stretches as much as feasible19:40
lcukon screen19:40
lcukbut i never tried it with video out effect19:40
lcuki just took it for granted it tried best19:41
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lcukso I will run at 400x300 mode19:41
lcukand see :)19:41
javispedroI do not think this applies to all xv surfaces by default -- just that mediaplayer sets a special bit.19:41
lcukwell thats what I will try19:42
lcuksince I dont try and set special bit19:42
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lcukit will confirm19:42
javispedrook :)19:42
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DocScrutinizerI'd be more interested in video out color depth19:43
javispedroand what happens when you defocus the window -- if it's in extend mode, it will probably keep on rendering on tvout19:43
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DocScrutinizerlooks like 15bit to me :-/19:43
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lcukDocScrutinizer, all maemo RGB is 15 bit19:43
lcukso thats not surprising19:43
javispedroor 16 iirc?19:43
lcukyuv is by definition a 24bit format19:43
DocScrutinizercrap for video watching19:43
lcukok, offbyone error19:43
javispedronot sure about the tvout one :P19:44
lcukwill verify that too then19:44
lcukfussy buggers19:44
javispedrohaha19:44
javispedrosorry but you're the one with sample xv applications lcuk ;)19:44
lcukindeed19:45
javispedroI just have some omapfb banging stuff.19:45
lcukspeaking of this19:45
javispedroup until now I thought mediaplayer or other propietary app fiddled with omapfb,19:45
lcuki never got round to curing: http://liqbase.net/liq.20100820_comparison_yuv_rgb_x11.htm19:45
javispedroif it's xv attributtes, this means the implementation of this should be OSS and on Xorg19:45
javispedroso I could "play by the rules"19:45
javispedrohehe19:46
javispedrodon't ever lose the extra green bit!19:46
lcukyeah19:46
javispedro;)19:46
javispedroafaik It's a human eye thing, being more sensible to green's depth than any other channel19:47
lcukyeah19:47
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DocScrutinizeranyway, watching video from N900 is basically no fun at all19:50
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lcukDocScrutinizer, ?19:51
DocScrutinizer3*7 bit colordepth is bare minimum for natural video19:51
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lcukDocScrutinizer, YUV mode is output as 24bit19:52
lcukhappily most videos use YUV to store things19:52
lcuki just went downstairs and checked19:53
lcukso, if you are seeing things rendered onto tvout as 16bit, its because the video player you are using is using a RGB surface19:53
lcukinstead of xv mode19:53
DocScrutinizerhmm19:53
lcukhappily the gradients used in that calc example are really clear and easy to tell the difference with19:54
lcukand theres no banding on my tv19:54
DocScrutinizerNB most modern TV do auto-scaling19:54
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DocScrutinizerIE if you offer 400 lines instead of 512, it will happily zoom up to display a full screen from 400 lines19:56
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javispedrobtw, I just tested it again19:58
javispedrothe camera application also uses the "trick"19:58
DocScrutinizerof course19:58
DocScrutinizerthe viewfinder is video playback basically19:58
javispedroxv actually.19:59
javispedrotme to check if mplayer does...19:59
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javispedrowell, mplayer does, but only when you set it to fullscreen, so it must be aware of this20:15
javispedrowell, gotta go. cya.20:17
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: nonsense20:21
luke-jrI watch movies on my N900 all the time these days20:21
luke-jrusing the video out thing20:21
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KotCzarnyhi.21:06
KotCzarnyhow can i make application manager use my proxy settings?21:07
KotCzarnybrowser works, appman doesn't21:07
lcuk. I can always using the terminal by doing export http_proxy and do an apt-get update but i dont think it would be ideal. anyone else having this problem?21:08
lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3771321:08
KotCzarnyapt-get as a regular user without sudo or anything?21:08
KotCzarnyunless i t's added by default21:08
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KotCzarnylcuk, i use ip for proxy address21:10
lcukKotCzarny, try it?21:11
KotCzarnyno go21:11
KotCzarnyasks for password21:11
KotCzarnypressing enter returns21:11
lcukhow did you install stuff before?21:13
KotCzarnyi had a broadband21:13
lcukahh21:14
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crashanddieMohammadAG: pong21:42
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, pm21:42
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Termanagood morning21:52
NooBmonk3yevenin!21:53
crashanddiemorning Termana21:53
crashanddie~ugt21:53
infoboti guess ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html21:53
NooBmonk3ylol21:54
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* NooBmonk3y must be behind the times ;)21:54
lcuknot really NooBmonk3y21:54
lcukits just crashanddie being picky :P21:54
* lcuk said evening also in #meego 21:54
NooBmonk3y;P thats normally doc's job ;)21:54
NooBmonk3yhehehe21:54
TermanaIt's 6:30am here. Normally I'd be asleep for another couple of hours - but I accidentally fell asleep early last night :p21:56
* lcuk accidentally couldn't fall asleep last night21:58
lcukeverytime I tried something banged or shook or snored or rang or crashed or beeped21:58
NooBmonk3ylol!21:59
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lcukNooBmonk3y, what would you do to someone who tried social calling at 8am on a saturday morning?21:59
NooBmonk3ylcuk, ignore them :P22:01
NooBmonk3yallthough i was up at 8am, getting water to ease the hangover :P22:01
lcukheh22:01
NooBmonk3ysocial calling? ie skype etc? :P22:01
lcukwell I tried that and hit the wrong button ont he phone22:01
lcukphone call waking whole house22:01
NooBmonk3yi've never really got on with skype etc.... N900 battery dies to quick if i leave it on, and pc isn't on all the time, so i'm rarely online22:02
NooBmonk3ylol!22:02
* lcuk leaves phone on normally for emergency practical purposes22:02
lcukbut does not expect to be woken by it22:03
NooBmonk3yhehehe, me too22:03
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NooBmonk3ydarn bank tried to get hold of me 18 times on friday, was not a happy bunny22:04
NooBmonk3yif i dont answer its cos i'm busy, and they never leave messages!22:04
lcukwell after the 18th time they decided to reject the anonymous deposit someone wanted to make into your account :P22:05
ieatlintlcuk: the answer to someone calling you at 8am on a saturday to say high is to call them at 3am on a sunday to say hi22:05
lcukieatlint, 3am is too early22:05
lcukpeople are still getting in from club22:05
lcukbut I like your thinking22:05
Termana:p22:05
ieatlinthehe22:05
ieatlintonly good can come from escalating it22:06
lcukpoint taken22:06
lcukbut afaik this person leaves his phone in another part of house22:06
ieatlintthat's ok, the fun of revenge is often thinking of what you'd do, not doing it22:07
ieatlintthe latter has consequences :(22:07
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lcukieatlint, only in weekend lie ins :P22:12
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nox-moin22:47
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NooBmonk3yhmmm does qtirreco work for anyone?23:21
NooBmonk3ycan't seem to get it to do anything :|23:21
lcukNooBmonk3y, did you configure it for your tv23:22
NooBmonk3yyeah tried all my remotes, got a sanyo tv, virgin box (cant see one for that) and panasonic surround sound, neither of the two with available remotes work :|23:24
MohammadAGget a camera, point the IR at it, see if it's emitting a signal23:25
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befordmine does not seem to be emitting a signal23:27
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NooBmonk3ycant see any red lights etc or flashes anywhere23:28
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NooBmonk3ymight explain why pykake does not work either23:29
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MohammadAGNooBmonk3y, I think qtirreco somehow fucks up lircd's config file23:32
MohammadAGI found a fix on tmo for it once, can't seem to remember where, but I use irreco now23:32
NooBmonk3yhmmm ok faq says when typing ps in terminal23:32
NooBmonk3y/usr/sbin/lircd --device=/dev/lirc0 --listen=8765 should appear23:32
NooBmonk3yi cant see it in there23:32
NooBmonk3yso lirc not running?23:32
NooBmonk3yahh theres a different app? lol23:33
MohammadAGirreco-for-n900 or something23:33
MohammadAGit's in GTK instead of Qt, but it works better for me23:33
Jay_BEEi had qtirreco working in the pr1.2 days... i haven't tried it since pr1.323:33
NooBmonk3y:P23:34
NooBmonk3ydloading the irreco one23:34
NooBmonk3ywill try that23:34
Jay_BEEsuppose i could walk into the living room and see if it will still work with my tv, which i never watch...23:34
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rcglcuk: just for the case anyone is having a similar issue: i think the problem was not related to the changelog being "one liners" - i.e. only containing the changes for the particular version - but was caused by me not updating the time and date fields in the changelog.23:44
rcgdunno actually why i forgot to update those fileds23:45
lcukrcg, cleaning your changelog down for each release does a disservice to anyone wanting to know what happens in your system23:45
rcg*fields23:45
lcukand would have made it clearer as to what the actual problem was23:45
lcuknot everyone uses the web page to view changes23:45
rcglcuk: yes, didn't know i could keep multiple entries23:45
rcglcuk: thanks for pointig me to the correct direction :)23:46
lcuk\o23:47
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NooBmonk3ymeh not working with irreco either23:51
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