IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-11-18

Macerblame china00:00
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DocScrutinizerWHAT??? 10GBP?00:01
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jacekowskiyeah00:02
MacerDocScrutinizer: sp $10,000 US?00:02
Macersp/so00:02
jacekowskii wasn't expecting it to be so cheap00:02
Mece_DocScrutinizer, motors are cheap.00:02
DocScrutinizerfriggin cheap00:02
Mece_escs are expensive00:02
DocScrutinizerI'll mount 8 of those under my rollerscaters :-P00:02
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: battery packs are not so cheap00:03
DocScrutinizer:-S00:03
jacekowski3000mAh £2100:03
lardmanmight need brakes00:03
jacekowski11V 3 sell stuff00:03
lardman10A x 10V00:03
jacekowskibattery drained in 20 minutes00:03
jacekowskiand if you do tricks and stuff and go to maximum rated 35A00:03
jacekowskieven faster00:04
DocScrutinizerin 20 min I'm at other end of town :-D00:04
Mece_is that fast enough?00:04
Macerwho uses batteries? go gas powered00:04
Mece_12000rpm00:04
Macerlol00:04
chxDocScrutinizer: you must be living in some small town00:04
jacekowskiMacer: weight00:04
jacekowskichx: not really00:05
DocScrutinizerhmmm, some 5 km00:05
Macerjacekowski: gas is heavier than batteries?00:05
jacekowskiMacer: yes00:05
* lardman feels the pain of a 25 kB/s download00:05
jacekowskiMacer: because motors are heavier00:05
Macerbatteries are pretty heavy00:05
jacekowskiMacer: and not as responsive00:05
Mece_batteries are very good for small stuff.00:05
jacekowskielectric can go to full speed before you notice00:06
DocScrutinizerturbine + generator FTW00:06
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DocScrutinizerplus a *small* LiIon for buffering peaks00:06
jacekowskisupercapacitor00:06
DocScrutinizermuch too heavy00:07
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jacekowskihmm, maybe self lifting glider sort of thing00:08
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jacekowskismall battery00:08
jacekowskibuilt mostly with solar cells00:08
luke-jrhow long until ARM gets power consumption down where you can just leave N900 out in the sun to charge?00:08
jacekowskiand it can fly for hours00:08
jacekowskiluke-jr: 20 years into past00:08
luke-jrXD00:08
SpeedEvilluke-jr: n900 sized solar cell will charge n900 in 6 hours or so.00:09
jacekowskii mean, full size glider can glide or hours00:09
luke-jrSpeedEvil: is that fast enough to run it?00:09
luke-jrnot really00:09
jacekowskiso make similiar but smaller00:09
luke-jrsince discharge is ~4 hrs at best00:10
SpeedEvilluke-jr: And the backlight is usually the biggest user.00:10
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Or the modem00:10
SpeedEvilJust being 'on' doesn't use much.00:10
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luke-jrjust being 'on' is useless w/o modem :P00:10
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Macerhaha00:10
luke-jrnot as useless as Macer, but still useless00:11
luke-jr>☺00:11
Macerlmao00:12
Macermaybe :)00:12
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Maceri did pretty good with my n810 and it didnt have a modem00:12
Maceras much as i wish it did00:13
Macer:)00:13
Macerwonder if the wimax n810s are still out there00:13
sp3000gliding00:13
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Afterishey'a! best phone owners ;)00:38
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vanadismobilehai00:48
DocScrutinizerphone's best owners00:49
vanadismobilecould anyone pls tell me how to reformat a memory card in n900?00:49
DocScrutinizercontext menu in HFM00:49
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vanadismobiledoesn't work, is there a way in xterm?00:50
DocScrutinizerthough it seems it fails for non standard partitionings and for borked / weird filesystems00:51
DocScrutinizersure00:51
DocScrutinizersfdisk (don't ask me how) or cfdisk (maybe in tools or extras-devel?), then mkfs.ext3 or mkfs.vfat or whatever you like00:52
vanadismobileokay, i'll give it a try00:52
vanadismobilethx00:52
DocScrutinizeryw00:52
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FIQ|n900Hm, is there any software for using N900 as bluetooth tgb?01:17
FIQ|n900My own has borked, if anyone wonders why01:17
jacekowskitgb?01:17
FIQ|n900er01:17
FIQ|n900keybd*01:17
jacekowskii saw something01:17
jacekowskii never used it01:17
jacekowskibut apparently there is something01:17
FIQ|n900ok01:17
FIQ|n900interesting01:17
jacekowskican't remember it's name01:17
FIQ|n900aw01:18
jacekowskisimple software01:18
* FIQ|n900 tries google01:18
jacekowskiwith 3 buttons on main screen01:18
jacekowskibluez01:18
jacekowskino01:18
FIQ|n900k01:18
jacekowskino01:18
Afteristalk.maemo.org01:18
jacekowskigoogle will help01:18
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FIQ|n900argh, just getting the reverse way. D:01:20
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jacekowskithat's simple01:20
jacekowskin900 can do it ootb01:20
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jacekowskibluemaemo01:21
FIQ|n900I don't really think that it can't, it's just BT commands01:21
FIQ|n900but well, a software would ease it. lP01:21
FIQ|n900oh01:21
FIQ|n900ty01:21
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FIQ|n900:P*01:21
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Lantiziaanyway I can boot the N900 in any kind of safe mode?  took some advice off someone here last night and now it's bricked (backlight turns on - gets no further)01:31
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FIQ|n900hm01:38
FIQ|n900ImportError: failed to import D-Bus bindings01:38
FIQ|n900Nope, bluemaemo didn't work01:38
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DocScrutinizer51Lantizia: which advice? what did you do?01:43
DocScrutinizer51Lantizia: and no, there's no general safe mode to deal with such a situation01:43
LantiziaDocScrutinizer, you remember I was told to alter the daemon.conf file for pulseaudio?01:43
DocScrutinizer51nope, sorry01:43
Lantiziayou were talking at the same time but it wasn't you01:44
DocScrutinizer51well, that shouldn't cause a hang on BL blank sceen01:45
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lardmanwhat % of people have Python installed do you think?01:47
lardmanwhere people is those with an N90001:47
DocScrutinizer519001:47
LantiziaDocScrutinizer, can I enable that R&D mode (so if something fails it continues) without reflashing?01:48
lardmanok, thats reasonable - just thinking about making it a dep for a plugin01:48
DocScrutinizer51yes you can01:48
gustavoferreirahi everyone, i don't know why but my phone (n900) doesn't play the sound of the video on the boot, does anyone know what could be the issue?01:48
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DocScrutinizer51gustavoferreira: severe misconfig01:50
DocScrutinizer51or hw defect01:50
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gustavoferreirabut it played some time ago01:51
DocScrutinizer51reflash01:51
gustavoferreiraso there is no config i can make to change that?01:51
DocScrutinizer51you got sound in normal operation?01:51
gustavoferreirayes01:51
gustavoferreiraon both, speakers and headphones01:51
DocScrutinizer51hmmm01:51
DocScrutinizer51strange01:51
LantiziaDocScrutinizer, I've not lost anything if I reflash just the 256mb bit anyway right? (just app's - no data like contacts / emails / text messages etc)01:52
gustavoferreiraand it used to play on the boot video01:52
Afterisany good maemo,n900 tweets?01:52
DocScrutinizer51silent mode?01:52
Afterisnot app01:52
gustavoferreirai had that on, but then i put it with sound and tried 3 times always checking that it was with the sound activated, but no sound on the boot video01:53
gustavoferreira(the video where it appears an handshake)01:53
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gustavoferreiraDocScrutinizer51: one question apart, are you the same guy DocScrutinizer??01:54
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DocScrutinizer51yes01:54
gustavoferreiraok ;)01:55
DocScrutinizer51use /whois01:55
Afterishola chickas :)01:55
Afterisany good tweets?01:55
gustavoferreirai'm sorry, i'm new on this thing called irc :p but i'm getting used to01:55
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Afterispanovie ktos vie dobre tweety? gal kas zino gerus tweetus? mozet kto znajey harashyje tweety?01:57
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alteregoJust registered a publishing account on Ovi01:57
Afterismaking webpage for n90001:58
Afteristhinking about make n900 maemo tweet section01:58
||jess|hi. I'm new to maemo. And want to install preenv which is in devel. When I choose preenv, I see it pulls lots of depencies. How can I know where those depencies come from. If those deps. exist in extras, wouldn't want to pull those from devel, would I?02:00
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Termanagood morning02:01
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alteregog'moaning Termana02:01
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||jess|If I only want one package from devel, the right way would be deactivate extras-devel and then just install that one package I manually and hope it pulls the deps from extras?02:02
alteregoYeah02:03
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FIQ|n900You can download just the package, but i guess there's a better way02:03
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FIQ|n900("the package" as in, the one in -devel)02:03
alteregotbh, when I installed it I downloaded just the package.02:04
||jess|ok. I'm just going to download the one package I need, and hope all the deps are in extras (no devel nor testing)02:05
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LantiziaDoes anyone know every time there is a bloody update it claims it'll do it over WLAN then tells me to use PC Suite02:05
Lantiziawhich is *ucking pointless since I don't use windows02:05
mecedammit noobmonk3y, now I'm up too late.02:06
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lardmannight all02:06
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tranqhi all, I have a QT package update for PR1.2 that has appeared in my update queue.  Unfortunately, I have already upgraded to PR1.3.  Are folk aware of this?  Has the release team made a mistake?02:06
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tranqI'm not able to install the update (which is probably good).02:08
tranqhas anyone else with PR1.3 seen this issue?02:08
tranqplease ping me if you can repro this.  I'll file a bug report if that helps.02:10
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jacekowskiit's probably because some package from external repository depends on old version02:12
tranqissue: PR1.3 package updater reports PyQT4_Full_install (PR1.2 only) as an available update02:12
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Crakhi02:13
tranqinstalled version: 4.74-maemo0      new package version: 4.75-maemo202:13
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Crakhow do I change the "sweep to unlock" background?02:15
tranqthe only external repo I have is mozilla.  I don't even have extras or devel enabled.02:15
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DocScrutinizerLantizia: lrn2trnsl8 from windoofs speak to IT03:00
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Lantizia?03:04
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pupnikplaying looping .gifs with mplayer  mplayer -loop 0 -fs -fixed-vo aa.gif03:05
Arkenoifunny, chinese watch phone i purchased 2.5 years ago not only works perfectly to now, but the battery shows no signs of wearing out, still lasts for 3 days03:06
Arkenoii expected it to die within one year03:07
ds3Arkenoi: is that a quad band phone?03:08
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Arkenoids3, i think yes, most mediatek phones are quad band, at least chipset does support it03:09
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Arkenoii wonder why 3g mtk phones are not widespread still, most chinese phones are gsm-only03:09
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Arkenoiand it would be handy to have bt 3g modem in a wristwatch03:10
SpeedEvil3G modems use comparatively stupid amounts of battery.03:10
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ds3Arkenoi: do they support the DUN profile?03:12
Arkenoids3, yes03:12
ds3now I am tempted to get one03:12
ds33G for TMO would be nice though03:13
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Arkenoii frequently used it as backup cellular internet connection for my notebook03:13
Arkenoithe sim card that is in my n900 has ridiculously expensive data plan, still ok for "smartphone" use but definitely out of the question if guest windows 2008 in a virtualbox wants to get some updates :-)03:15
SpeedEvil:)03:15
sp3000Crak: I've seen themes do such things, I think03:15
Crakthanks, I found theme customizer from extras-devel03:16
Arkenoihmm, google says it is tri-band (cect w600)03:17
ds3windows needs to be prohibited.03:17
Arkenoithere is a newer version available now, but (*facepalm*) it has a fatal misfeature: while in standby mode (screen backlight off), the screen image does not get updated, making it totally unusable as wristwatch :-))03:19
Arkenoimine is ok03:19
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DocScrutinizerLantizia: "please use FooBar winows suite to update" is windoze-noob-speak what is what Nokia thinks is N900 target customers. For everybody with a minimum of IT knowledge that means "there are conflicts or problems n upgrade the stupid SSU in HAM can't solve". This doesn't mean *you* can't solve them03:32
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DocScrutinizerdon't blame *me* for the wording in this notification. I never got the point how Nokia could sell a Linux based device to a target customer group of windows gasheads03:34
DocScrutinizermake it basically work, pusblish howtos for Linux geeks, try to tune wording and experience towards (windoze) mass market: OK.  --  Advertise to Joe Luser mass market, tune initial wording and experience to windoze noobs, then make it work evetually: FAILWALE03:39
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Psiis there a free full version of angry birds with ads for n900 yet?04:00
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gustavo-ferreiraPsi: lol, no... there is a main application for free04:21
gustavo-ferreirawith the first pack04:21
gustavo-ferreirathen there are more two pack, witch you have to pay for them, 2€ i believe04:21
gustavo-ferreiraa tomada04:24
Psiyeah04:24
Psijust wondered if it was going to get the full free version with ads, like android has04:24
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gustavo-ferreirawell, that i don't know, i just know that, for now you have to pay it04:29
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DorfmeisterHi. I just installed Meego on my N900 (to a microSD card) and now want to add NITDroid as well, but even though I find many threads there doesn't seem to be a good tutorial for this. Could anybody help with this? I know it's not a direct topic of this channel, but maybe somebody here could help - I already tried #n900, #meego and the Nokia forum. Thanks in advance.05:39
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DorfmeisterI started the thread http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?213768-Yet-another-N900-Maemo-Meego-NITDroid-Thread If anybody should later on have an idea, please post it there. Thank you.05:48
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SpeedEvilNow tends to be an especially dead time hwere.05:50
SpeedEvilAsk about 6 hours ago, or in anohter 605:51
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DorfmeisterWill do.05:56
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Pillumhey guys06:17
Pillumwhat do i have to do if i cant use camera after installing powerv42?06:17
Pillumit always says "camera is used by another application"06:17
johnxhave you already tried rebooting (just checking)?06:18
Pillumyep06:18
Pillumflashlight isnt working either06:18
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Pillumany idea?06:21
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johnxnot off the top of my head06:22
johnxby powerv4 do you mean the power kernel?06:23
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Pillumyeah06:23
Pillumpower kernel version 4206:23
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johnxyeah. I don't have it installed, so I have no idea. sorry06:24
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Pillumseems like the issue is already known on talk.maemo.org06:28
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jase21Hi guys, Flash Player 10.0 evaluation can be obtained from Texas Instruments: http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/adobeflash-a8.html07:39
jase21Did anyone checked that before?07:39
jase21current version: v10.1.r9207:40
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tristan__has anyone installed netbeans?08:04
tristan__in easy-debian08:04
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meceseen noobmonk3y10:32
meceoops10:32
mece~seen noobmonk3ey10:32
infoboti haven't seen 'noobmonk3ey', mece10:32
mecewell what the hell is his name then infobot???10:33
meceoh right..10:33
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mece~seen noobmonk3y10:33
infobotnoobmonk3y <~NooBmonk3@cpc2-lanc4-0-0-cust67.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 12h 35m 47s ago, saying: 'at least i know that part works, so i need to start again i think, and figure out this build process :|'.10:33
mece~botsnack10:33
infobotthanks, mece10:33
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crashanddie~lart mece the naysayer10:58
* infobot burns mece the naysayer to a crisp with a laser10:58
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tr4skHi11:13
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tr4skI have a problem with my N90011:19
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tr4skWhen I type some text in conversation or microB, I got an internal error11:20
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psycho_oreosheh that information wasn't particularly helpful.. don't you have any detailed information? maybe try running the apps via osso-xterm? and probably checking syslog?11:23
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psycho_oreosis there an alternative to using scp when one needs to transfer lots and lots of data between n900 and linux host? scp is an overkill and I prefer the alternative method to work with mount/fusermount as I am planning to create a dar image11:47
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phellarvpsycho_oreos: Connect by USB?11:47
phellarvAnd mount11:47
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alteregonetcat?11:47
phellarvalterego: Lol.11:47
psycho_oreosphellarv, yeah already am using USB and I get around 2.2MB/s through ssh11:48
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alteregoIt's quicker when you use storage mode11:48
phellarv^ What he said11:48
psycho_oreosthough the N900's CPU is pretty much hauling its ass off, obviously ssh requires encryption11:48
psycho_oreosnope, usb storage mode only gives one access to /home/user/MyDocs11:49
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alteregoEver heard of cp?11:49
alteregoOr mv?11:49
psycho_oreoscp from where to where? I'm talking between two hosts over IP networking for instance11:49
phellarvpsycho_oreos: Why do you  want it over IP?11:49
psycho_oreosand again usb storage mode does not give me rootfs access, only /home/user/MyDocs11:49
phellarvmkdir /home/user/MyDocs11:50
psycho_oreosphellarv, is there an alternative?11:50
phellarvmkdir /home/user/MyDocs/rootfs11:50
psycho_oreosbinding mount?11:50
alteregoSo you want to copy files from the rootfs11:50
phellarvcp the rootfs to /home/user/MyDocs/rootfs11:50
alteregophellarv: dangerous :P11:50
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psycho_oreosno that will screw up the perms and what not11:50
alteregoHeh,11:50
phellarvphellarv: Naaah11:50
alteregotar it11:50
alteregothen copy11:50
phellarvrsync11:50
alteregobetter still, tar it pipe it through netcat and untar it on the client11:51
phellarvalterego: You're a fan of netcat?11:51
psycho_oreosrsync will just cp files across rather than allowing one to run it through dar.. then again I suppose an ugly script hack might make the two work together, ugh11:51
alteregoQuit complaing and use ssh :P11:52
phellarvpsycho_oreos: What are you trying to achieve?11:52
psycho_oreosphellarv, creating a dar archive of rootfs minus the usual directories: /dev, /sys, /home/user/MyDocs, etc11:52
psycho_oreosor a complete backup :p11:53
alteregoYou can tell it to not go into mounted dirs11:53
Lantiziahey my n900 doesn't boot... backlight turns on - but it just hangs and doesn't show anything - if I enable R&D mode you can see it mention the kernel line but doesn't get any further... but it doesn't reboot... any ideas?11:53
phellarvUse tar11:53
crashanddieLantizia, flash11:53
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Lantiziacrashanddie, other than that!11:54
crashanddiereflash?11:54
* Lantizia looks at crashanddie 11:54
psycho_oreosphellarv, dar seems to be much better than tar :p but meh, thanks for input11:54
phellarvLantizia: Sacrifice a goat, and dance naked in the moonlight?11:54
psycho_oreosflash the kernel and hope nothing else is screwed11:54
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Lantiziaphellarv, how good is the success rate on that?11:55
phellarvLantizia: Success rate == Not bloody likely.11:55
phellarvLantizia: But hey - You can brag about performing a voodoo-ritual11:55
crashanddieLantizia, after the moonlight bathing, walk 3 times around an old french car (deflated tyres), while rotating the n900 in counter-clock direction11:55
LantiziaI've had this thing 11 months now... bits are starting to annoy me lol11:56
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phellarvLantizia: Sorry, but I have to agree with crashanddie there - reflashing seems like a sane solution for you11:56
LantiziaI turned on the no lifeguard thing but it didn't help11:56
alteregocrashanddie: it doesn't work when you walk you need to hop on your left leg and tap your head with your right hand whilst doing the procedure11:56
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crashanddiealterego, lies11:57
lardmananyone fancy a state flow puzzle?11:57
alteregona-uh11:57
crashanddiealterego, you have to tap your _left_ head with your _right_ hand.11:57
alteregobbiab11:57
crashanddielardman, shoot11:57
phellarvcrashanddie: It really depends on the moonphase.11:57
lardmanhttps://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/mbarcode-qt/videowidget.cpp?revision=447&root=maemo-barcode&view=markup11:57
lardmanlines 123-13111:58
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Lantiziaa) the stand makes it wobble and topple, b) usb port on the wrong side, c) stupid need for pc suite (wind0ze only), d) minimal portrait, e) too fat, f) a bugger to turn on11:58
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Lantiziai'm falling out of love :(11:58
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lardmancrashanddie: will be rather involved to follow the logic I'm afraid11:58
lardmanprobably anyway11:58
crashanddiewhat do you need pc-suite for?11:58
crashanddieNever used that.11:58
Lantiziacrashanddie, when PR1.3 came out it said "HEY LETS UPDATE OVER WLAN!" then "Oh but wait... go use PC Suite"11:59
phellarvWhat is pc-suite?11:59
psycho_oreosLantizia, yup lots of owners wear out their novelty with n900 after 6 months of owning it11:59
Lantiziapsycho_oreos, I'm surprised I've lasted 11 months then :)11:59
crashanddieLantizia, flasher 3.5 ftw11:59
Lantiziacrashanddie, already downloading pr1.312:00
psycho_oreosallows one to be able to manage portions of the phone, such as remote phone calling, sending/receiving/writing sms, wireless internet through the phone, etc12:00
crashanddielardman, line 131 bothering you?12:00
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Lantiziai'm getting global as theres no uk release - should be ok though right?12:00
psycho_oreosLantizia, funny how you mention your love is falling out for n900 in that case :)12:00
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psycho_oreosthere should be uk release afaik12:00
Lantizianope12:01
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lardmancrashanddie: yeah, see the comment at the end of that line12:01
Lantiziai never knew what it gave anyone anyway.... technically i've got a vodaphone sim too... but it's not a vodaphone provided handset - so I'm fine with just global or UK12:01
crashanddielardman, because you don't call timerOpenGL->start() in the else branch?12:01
psycho_oreosLantizia, blah my bad, though lots of UK owners claim they did OTA upgrade however12:02
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lardmanI don't really want to continuously paint the "You need to open the shutter" message if I can avoid it12:02
Lantiziapsycho_oreos, never works for me...always claims it'll do it over wlan then wants you to get to a windows box12:02
Lantiziaof which there are none12:02
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crashanddielardman, what displays that message?12:03
crashanddielardman, thing is, I notice that in the if branch, there's setInterval, and the timerOpenGL->start()12:03
crashanddielardman, however, in the else branch, there is only setInterval, you don't start the timer12:04
crashanddielardman, wouldn't that cause the video to not start?12:04
lardmanyes, that;s the idea12:04
lardmanno, the video should be started elsewhere12:04
lardmanthe timer just draws the video once available12:04
psycho_oreosLantizia, heh well I did OTA update... not too happy because I was forced to upgrade and I was and still am using global version. It worked needless to say.. probably one may need to use fapman and/or enable red pill mode or something for one to see the massive amounts of packages it needs to download and install12:04
crashanddielardman, but do you start the timer elsewhere?12:04
Lantiziapsycho_oreos, recon it's worth me putting pr1.2 uk release on fresh and seeing it if OTA updates then?12:05
lardmancrashanddie: yes, as I see a black screen (updating)12:06
lardmani.e. no video, very odd12:06
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psycho_oreosLantizia, good question lol, I don't have UK firmware to begin with so I won't know after the OTA would the release version be either global or remain as UK12:06
crashanddielardman, I don't see any other timerOpenGL->start() in that file12:06
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psycho_oreosI'd say check the forums, it may I suppose save you some headache if you went straight for PR1.3 should PR1.2 fail to deliver12:07
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lardmanl44812:07
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crashanddielardman, and that's a valid call to start()?12:08
lardmanyep12:09
crashanddielardman, rather than using setInterval() followed by start()?12:09
lardmanyeah, either is possible12:09
lardmanthe problem's not the timer, that certainly starts as I can see the fps on the screen, it's the fact I don't seem to get video12:09
lardmanbut that single line change should have no effect on the gst pipeline12:10
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chem|stre12:11
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lardmanhi chem|st12:11
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chem|sthi lardman, how are you doing?12:12
crashanddielardman, not related, but you should use preprocessing shields for the device-specific code12:13
lardmanwell the whole code is device specific12:14
crashanddieif (deviceType==DEVICE_N900){12:14
lardmanchem|st: not bad, trying to reduce mBarcode power usage12:14
lardmanyeah, legacy code now12:14
crashanddiek12:14
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lardmanOpenGL, so might one day be possible on the N8x0 machines12:14
chem|stlardman: a so you are already at performance tweaking, so I guess you aren't far away from a new release?!12:15
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lardmanI've just pushed a new release to extras-devel, should be there now12:15
lardmanand once I've sorted a few other odds and sods out will go through the trials of -testing and onto Extras :)12:16
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FIQ|n900Hi. I have coreutils installed. I want it to be priorited in $PATH, so i set the path in my .bashrc file. Hoewer, it seems as it's not the last readed file, so my PATH gets overwritten. If I source my .bashrc, it works fine, so it's not that.12:18
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chem|st"!$&%$@ why the heck is damn hildon-home such a bitch?12:18
FIQ|n900And yes, the file is readed, just not last12:18
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psycho_oreoswhat if you create a symlink from .bash_profile to .bashrc?12:19
chem|stFIQ|n900: path has nothing to be in .bashrc afair it's to be in profiles12:19
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* chem|st has no idea what he is talking about but memories back from the days he used to set them up by hand...12:20
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lardmanbbiab, need to boot up Windows, yay! not12:32
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FIQ|n900Hm, i fixed it12:35
FIQ|n900thanks anywa12:35
FIQ|n900y12:35
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alteregoWell, there's a confirmed bug in Qt Mobility location 1.0.0 for the N900, which means reported speed is in kph and not m/s as documented.12:47
crashanddielardman|gone, sorry, can't seem to find the issue12:47
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crashanddiemiles per second?12:48
alteregometres12:48
crashanddiemeter12:48
alteregometre12:48
crashanddiealterego, this channel is most definitely american, so please use the real world, real word "meter" rather than that stupid british spelling "metre"12:50
alteregoI'd say it's European actually.12:50
chem|stFIQ|n900: and what was the right way or does fix it mean just to be working but not the way it is supposed to?!12:50
alteregoEuropean ..12:50
marmouteUs or Imperial Meter ?12:50
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chem|stcrashanddie: wtf?12:50
alteregoYou might be willing to subject people to retard spelling but I'm not :P12:51
crashanddiechem|st, did I just break the channel's sarcasm meter?12:51
FauxFauxBritfags unite. \o/12:51
crashanddieFauxFaux, gtfo /b/tard12:51
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crashanddiealterego, i mostly support british spelling rules, but meter is one where I just can't comply. We even write "speedometer", not "speedometre".12:52
alteregoThat's because a meter is something else.12:53
crashanddieno, it's not12:53
chem|stcrashanddie: it is12:53
alteregoA meter is for measuring, a metre is a unit of measurement :P12:53
FauxFauxI have to say, I don't particularily like metre, but there's some cases where the American spelling looks wrong.  Like centre.12:53
chem|stmeter is something to measure and has actualy nothing to do with distance!12:53
FIQ|n900<chem|st> FIQ|n900: and what was the right way or does fix it mean just to be working but not the way it is supposed to?!12:53
crashanddie"Measuring devices (such as parking meter, speedometer) are traditionally spelt "...meter" in all countries.[19] The word "meter", signifying any such device, has the same derivation as the word "metre", denoting the unit of length this article is about."12:53
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crashanddieIt's the same bloody thing, it comes from the same bloody thing12:54
chem|stcrashanddie: different meaning12:54
FauxFauxPerhaps that's why it looks wrong.12:54
FIQ|n900Well, I ended up moving my forced source of .bashrc to the last readed file (.bashrc isn't readed properly if you set bash as default shell on maemo)12:54
FIQ|n900So, not the correct way i guess12:54
chem|stFIQ|n900: ok ;)12:54
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crashanddiechem|st, metre comes from French, correct?12:54
crashanddiechem|st, and mètre, is a synonym for either the unit of length, and a device to measure something.12:55
crashanddiechem|st, hence, there is no reason why there would a difference in spelling between the two in English.12:55
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FIQ|n900Hm, i like filebox12:56
alteregocrashanddie: there is, because French isn't English :P12:56
FIQ|n900Simple fingerfriendly ui as the default manager, and includes more features12:56
crashanddieI understand "it's like that, and that's the way it is" -- RunDMC, however I can't help but disagree with the randomness of it12:56
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alteregoCustom speed and bearing indicator: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/Screenshot-20101118-104918.png12:57
chem|stcrashanddie: in case of english its is french yes and the french word is greek from measure (metron)12:57
alterego:)12:57
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crashanddiechem|st, well, from latin more likely12:59
chem|stcrashanddie: sure there is as the one word is from german and the other from french12:59
chem|stcrashanddie: no greek12:59
crashanddiechem|st, so latin metrum has nothing to do with it?13:00
alteregoGreek is older than latin,13:00
alteregoLatin is based on Greek13:00
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crashanddielatin probably got it from greek, but very few french words are from greek, and more directly from latin13:00
alteregoFfff.13:00
alteregopoppy cock13:00
crashanddieif you allow yourself to ignore Latin, then you could say English metre is based off Greek as well (you're just skipping French and Latin)13:01
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alteregom'hmm13:01
crashanddieI win, anyone who disagrees gets a 24h ban.13:02
* alterego disagrees13:02
* crashanddie gives alterego a Bachelor of Arts in Nursing for 24h.13:02
fnordianslipbah, at least in english we don't care what gender a table is. IIRC european languages don't even agree on that.13:02
chem|stcrashanddie: the american english meter is from german the british english is from french and both directional from greek (and there is a difference if a word is actualy from greek or latin)13:03
lardmanhmm13:04
crashanddiechem|st, yes, and in the french's case, it's from latin.13:04
crashanddiechem|st, _not_ greek.13:04
lardmanyou reckon the US derives its words from German?13:04
chem|stcrashanddie: would you mind to stab yourself?13:04
crashanddielardman, obviously, American English is much closer to German than to British English.13:04
nidOi'm highly confused as to what you guys are even arguing about. does someone not know the difference between a meter and a metre?13:04
chem|stlardman: many english words derive from german13:05
lardmancrashanddie: why?13:05
crashanddieyup, I definitely broke the sarcasm meter today.13:05
lardmanchem|st: of course, but saying that the US English skips the English English root is what I'm wondering about13:05
Trewasfnordianslip: don't generalise too much, finnish does not care what gender is even in he/she :)13:05
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chem|stlardman: because the language english comes from the north cost of central europe + french13:06
chem|stlardman: they do13:06
crashanddieAnd I thought English came from the british isles13:06
fnordianslipTrewas: I assume you mean the language, or are all Finns bisexual?13:06
lardmanI know where English was derived from, my point is that the US English comes from UK English and that comes from Europe, etc13:07
crashanddieI mean, sure, you can argue that any language doesn't come from the country it originated, but really is a big melting pot of different cultures13:07
crashanddiebut honestly, that's quite a given, isn't it?13:07
Trewasfnordianslip: mostly language13:07
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chem|stcrashanddie: it is a matter of what was first13:07
crashanddieok, well then all languages originated from a cry for help, a million years ago, somewhere in Africa13:08
fnordianslipTrewas: Does that make Finnish easier to learn?13:08
chem|stlardman: the vote on the primary language in the usa was faought between german and english and as likely as germans render words in their language the other way round happens too13:09
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Trewasfnordianslip: maybe a tiny bit, but I think the general consensus is that it is not very easy language to learn because it is so different compared to anything else13:10
lardmanchem|st: hmm13:10
lardmanI'll take that under advisement13:10
crashanddiechem|st, so what you're trying to say, is that the real reason americans came to help europe during the second world war is because they all suffer from a multi-generation oedipus complex and they wanted to kick their grand-father's butt?13:10
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fnordianslipTr13:11
fnordianslipoops.13:11
crashanddiefnordianslip, you forgot td13:11
fnordianslipTrewas: I guess I'll give it a miss, as I'm already useless at French and Germen :)13:11
fnordianslipcrashanddie: evidently13:12
crashanddieyou're pretty rubbish at English too13:12
crashanddie"Germen"?13:12
crashanddieOMG, GERMEN IS THE BASIC FORM OF AN ORGANISM13:13
fnordianslipcrashanddie: er, oh.  I blame either my fingers or this macbook pro's keybd, but I'm a typo spammer13:13
crashanddieWe all originated from the germs...13:13
crashanddies/ms/mans/13:13
infobotcrashanddie meant: We all originated from the germans...13:13
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crashanddieQuick, we must re-write the bible to fix it13:13
fnordianslipi read on the BBC that the French have closer links to Neanderthals than most other Europeans13:14
crashanddieJeebus wasn't born in Nazareth, he was from Saarbrucken13:14
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chem|stcrashanddie: no ramstein13:15
fnordiansliphttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8660940.stm13:15
crashanddiefnordianslip, it's classified under hi/sci, which is obviously a typo for sci/fi13:16
chem|stcrashanddie: and as in god we trust we build an airbase at his house of birth13:16
crashanddiefnordianslip, actually, that's the whole Eurasian branch you're qualifying as French13:17
fnordianslipcrashanddie:  it says French in the graphic, that's good enough for me :)13:17
lardmanI like the way French has been classified as a human grouping along the lines of Han-chinese13:18
crashanddieI like how Elitist it is, too13:18
crashanddieFrench at the top, with a house in the background13:18
crashanddieall the others in the bush13:19
fnordianslipis there a bush in France?13:19
chem|stfnordianslip: kind of13:20
crashanddiewell, we do have plants, so I'm guessing at least one of those should qualify13:20
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crashanddieor maybe you mean Sarkozy? Yeah, he's kind of a Bush.13:20
fnordianslipi promise not to mention onion fields13:20
lardmanlol http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-1177436713:21
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fnordiansliplol13:21
crashanddieLooking up static.bbc.co.uk13:21
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chem|stfnordianslip: the boarder to germany got some kind of tropical climate spots where us-tropic-troops train before they get send out13:21
crashanddielolwut13:22
crashanddieborder with germany somewhere in Africa, maybe.13:22
chem|stcrashanddie: at this point you qualify as "got no clue about"13:23
crashanddiechem|st, [citation needed]13:23
Appiah:)13:23
crashanddieseriously, show me a tropical spot in France13:23
crashanddiein metropolitan France...13:24
lardmanVietnam13:24
derfHaha.13:24
crashanddieNot metropolitan13:24
lardmanHanoi seems quiite metropolitan ;)13:24
crashanddielardman, and you seem quite metrosexual :P13:24
lardmanyou love it13:25
crashanddieI do13:25
lardman:D13:25
crashanddiewait, what are we talking about?13:25
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lardmanno idea, I'm going to do some work13:25
crashanddiewaiting for gf to pick me up for lunch13:25
* crashanddie goes to troll on omegle13:26
crashanddiebtw, can you hear that wooshing sound?13:26
chem|stcrashanddie: plaine alluviale du rhine not metropolitan but do you expect it?13:26
crashanddiehang on, dns is having trouble, let me check it out13:27
crashanddiechem|st, mate, those are swamps13:27
crashanddieand it is metropolitan13:27
chem|stat least back in the '90s us troops had a stop by before they were send out, don't know if they are still going13:28
crashanddiefor those who are not familiar with french terminology: "France Metropolitaine" means the geographic country on the continent of Europe, not any of the islands (some of which can easily be qualified as tropical)13:28
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chem|stcrashanddie: ah ok that way you are refering13:29
crashanddieaye13:29
crashanddiesorry for the confusion13:29
chem|styes they are swamps but what is th difference?13:29
crashanddiewell, hardly tropical13:29
chem|stin the summertime you get 99% humidity and 30-40°C...13:30
crashanddieerhm, no you don't13:30
crashanddiethere's not a spot in france that reaches 99% humidity AND 40C13:31
crashanddieI mean, I was in Brisbane, now that was 96% humidity, and 42C, and geographically tropical. Nothing in France compares to that.13:31
crashanddieYou might have the Camargue, with about 85% humidity and 30C13:32
crashanddiebut that's hardly close to the German border13:32
crashanddiePerpignan, where I live, is about 70% humidity at 35 during high summer13:32
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smhargreetings13:34
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chem|stcrashanddie: I measured myself in the city as I did not beliefe the forecast and down the street I had 38° when the stations said 31° just a few minutes after it was raining, all your cloth got clammy in seconds just from being outside13:35
smharI am planning to upgrade to PR1.3 and I've read somewhere that I need to have 'enough' free space in rootfs. I am trying but can not get more than 44mb free on it. is it 'enough'? how to free more?13:36
crashanddiesmhar, reports of required free space vary between 55 and 75MB13:36
chem|stsmhar: uninstall some of the 3rd party software13:36
crashanddiechem|st, I don't really count "right after raining" a valid full-on tropical experience ;) But meh. Who cares.13:37
smharcrashanddie, 75MB????? that is too much13:37
smhar:-)13:37
chem|stcrashanddie: in the "rheinauen" you don't need it freshly rained...13:37
crashanddieanyway, out for lunch13:38
crashanddie'later all13:39
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chem|stsmhar: 44MB is hard... make a backup and uninstall all the stuff you currently do not need, after the upgrade is done you can just revert the backup and all stuff you did uninstall installs back again13:40
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smharchem|st, this sounds like the only sane solution, although it is an insane one :-)13:42
chem|stsmhar: you can backup and flash instead13:42
chem|stsmhar: probably the faster way13:42
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chem|stsmhar: or move /usr/lib/loacales_archives to somewhere else and symlink back13:43
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smharchem|st, wait, this could be a quick fix, what is in that directory?13:44
smharchem|st, oh, I do not have that directory in my system? is this strange?13:46
alteregoHrm, he colour depth of my QWidget is awful.13:47
alteregos/he/the/13:47
infobotalterego meant: Hrm, the colour depth of my QWidget is awful.13:47
alteregoNot getting a nice clean gradient for my background image.13:47
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chem|stsmhar: one second I look it up... I guess I am wrong with the path13:52
chem|stsmhar: it is /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive and it is a file13:53
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smharchem|st, it is 22.8M13:54
chem|stsmhar: yes13:54
smharchem|st, that means I will have 67m free :-)13:55
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chem|stsmhar: do not put it in mydocs!13:56
smharchem|st, ok13:57
chem|stusr lib on its own is 212.8MB13:59
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chem|stwithout optification it would be >500MB13:59
MohammadAGUBIFS is compressed13:59
mecealterego, ping14:00
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rmrfchikdamn, can't answer phone -- too many swapping :(14:13
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smharchem|st, so can I move -and symlink- the whole /use/lib?14:16
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alteregomece: pong14:17
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MohammadAGsmhar, NO14:19
MohammadAGdon't even attempt to14:19
smharok,, so, MohammadAG, what 'big' folder/files I can move to free more space in rootfs?14:21
MohammadAG/var/lib/dpkg14:21
MohammadAGbe careful not to lose it14:21
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Afterishello maemo world!14:23
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smharMohammadAG, it is around 9MB, good14:24
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pablo2How possible correct this error "dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/osso-mission-control_5.20+0m5_armel.deb" ?  Itry reinstall and occurs error again14:46
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JaffaAf'noon15:23
DocScrutinizerlool: Jaffa15:24
DocScrutinizerlo even15:24
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DocScrutinizeralterego: seems the color depth of the N900 display isn't just studio standard15:26
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: I have ~200..500 tickets to open here. :-P What do you suggest?15:37
DocScrutinizerJaffa: I can even provide a patch for each one of those ickets15:38
merlin1991woha15:38
merlin1991on what did you hack?15:38
DocScrutinizerjust .desktop files15:38
merlin1991and what was wrong in all of them? :D15:39
DocScrutinizer3 of 5 are wrong version=15:39
merlin1991does that have any inpact on the user experience?15:39
DocScrutinizerversion=1.0 PERIOD15:39
DocScrutinizernope15:39
DocScrutinizerseems it's absolutely irrelevant15:39
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DocScrutinizerit *might* have massive impact however, if ever the version of .desktop files starts to matter (e.g. when meego is using an incompatible version=2.0 spec for those files' format, and is actually looking at the version string to determine what to do with a .desktop file)15:41
DocScrutinizerin fact if the code accessing *.desktop wasn't written sloppy, it *should* have impact right now. As we don't know what to do with a version=1.6.1 .desktop file. It's a yet to defined visitor from the future15:43
merlin1991what is the correct version string and what's the wrong one?15:44
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DocScrutinizerfor now version=1.015:44
DocScrutinizerNOT the version of your app!!15:45
merlin1991ofc :)15:45
edheldilwhy not use Lintian ? ;-)15:45
Jef91Extra-Testing is still repository.maemo.org/extra-testing Dis: fremantle Comp: free non-free right?15:45
DocScrutinizerlooks right15:46
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SpeedEvilfremantle spelled with two es only15:46
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DocScrutinizerrsp looks wrong and odd, as there's no room for 1.2 versions anymore. But *sigh* and screwit, we didn't fix this for 1.2, so why fix it for 1.3?15:47
Jef91"fremantle" right? Extras are freshing for me but not testing :-/15:47
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DocScrutinizerJef91: temporary downtime? We see that frequently15:49
Jef91bleh hopefully15:49
Jef91Such trash15:49
DocScrutinizerJef91: what's the error?15:49
Jef91just that good old failed to refresh15:50
Jef91giving a 40415:50
DocScrutinizeraaah15:50
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DocScrutinizerprobably the .gz are missing another time15:50
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Jef91so just try again later?15:51
DocScrutinizeryep15:51
DocScrutinizertomorrow maybe15:51
Jef91Wonderful. Hope I don't need to use this thing much today then. No applications becuase I to reflash the fucker15:52
DocScrutinizerusually -testing pkg are also in -devel15:52
* Jef91 gives that a go15:53
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DocScrutinizeralso sometimes it helps to resolve URL to another IP of the server farm, as some errors occur for a fraction of the servers only15:53
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Jef91Why do the N900 repos have these issues?15:55
Jef91Never had such a time with Debian/Ubuntu15:55
Appiahwhat issues?15:56
Jef91oh just general repositories sucking15:56
Appiah?15:56
TrewasJef91: maybe they care even a little bit that their repositories work15:56
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Appiahwhat ? the repos are offline or what do you mean15:57
Jef91oh! Praise the lord. They appear to be working15:58
Jef91I guess pounding refresh is good for something on occasion15:58
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Appiahsure it's just not your connection?15:58
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* Jef91 looks at the IRC Window15:58
DocScrutinizer40415:58
Jef91Yep. Pretty sure.15:58
Jef91Its going now Doc. So whatever it is hopefully resolved itself15:59
DocScrutinizerakamai load balancing, plus sometimes some servers crapping out on rsync/whatever15:59
Jef91Now I just need to find my sygic and docs to go installer15:59
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DocScrutinizeredheldil: lintian?16:06
edheldilsry, confused .desktop and debian/control16:07
DocScrutinizeraah16:07
edheldilbut some automated check would prevent this :)16:07
DocScrutinizerI'd use greasemonkey to bomb an automatically generated 547 tickets into trac, if only trac had a category for each pkg :-/16:08
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DocScrutinizeredheldil: heh, probably that's a good approach16:08
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: how about adding a check to buildhost for *.desktop "version=" string must be "version=1.0" if existing?16:09
DocScrutinizershould be dead simple to implement16:10
DocScrutinizerbut would carp out on 50+% of genuine Nokia pkg as well :-P16:11
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DocScrutinizerwell nobody said Nokia is any better on coding correctly than anybody else in community :-)16:12
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DocScrutinizerI'd not be surprised though to find a line like #if 0    if (version != "1.0") {  // who wrote this shit? We fixed it. (c) Nokia16:14
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DocScrutinizerof course if somebody really wrote a numeric compare for a string, then Nokia would have been right :-P16:17
DocScrutinizerunless that's c++ and the != got overloaded for strings16:18
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DocScrutinizerhumm, that seems to be rather weird and fuzzy. So lemme try again:16:19
DocScrutinizerI'd not be surprised to find Nokia patched out the code to check for *.desktop version being one that the program can cope with16:20
DocScrutinizerso they enable broken .desktop files to work in maemo, and Nokia can continue with their habit to abuse version=16:21
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DocScrutinizeranyway 500 tickets would considerably pump up my karma :-P16:23
edheldilis 500 tickets the same as killing 500 kittens??? :)16:24
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DocScrutinizerno idea, never ever killed 500 kittens16:25
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DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format#Standard_keys16:55
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ZogGDocScrutinizer =)16:59
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jophish_Hi all17:02
jophish_Is there the capability to read incoming texts and run a shell script to respond to them?17:02
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chem|stjophish_: yes17:03
DocScrutinizerincoming?17:03
jophish_well, any texts17:03
DocScrutinizerSMS?17:03
jophish_DocScrutinizer: Yes17:03
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lardmanDBus message17:03
chem|st^^17:03
DocScrutinizerjophish_: yes, there are pkgs using this to trigger actions17:03
jophish_fantastic17:04
chem|stDocScrutinizer: he asked for "capability"17:04
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: yes. I'm only aware of pkgs that seem to exploit that capability17:05
jophish_Essentially, what I have is a program that takes words as input and responds itself17:05
jophish_a chatbot essentially17:05
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chem|stjophish_: sms script for text to number is available somewhere17:06
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chem|stjophish_: in python afair17:06
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jophish_that sounds like somethign I want17:06
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chem|stjophish_: email?17:09
chem|stjophish_: or pastebin?17:09
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jophish_chem|st: I suppose something like this is what I want: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/DBus/DBus_in_Freemantle17:13
chem|stjophish_: http://pastebin.com/Xje5rLgi17:13
jophish_wow17:14
chem|stok or email too?17:14
jophish_that's fine thanks17:14
jophish_I'm sure I will be able to hack this to suit my needs.17:15
jophish_time to learn pythin17:15
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Janne123hi17:16
chem|stjophish_: it converts everything in that horrifying octet format of sms and sand to a number in international format (dont remember if only international)17:16
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chem|stJanne123: lo'17:16
toggles"the brand from a previous generation"17:16
toggleshttp://www.engadget.com/2010/11/18/steve-wozniak-android-will-be-the-dominant-smartphone-platform/17:17
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togglesif woz say's it's so, i'm getting a droid17:17
chem|sttoggles: lol17:17
Janne123how i zoom on xchat? im using n90017:18
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chem|stJanne123: settings->preferences->font and change the size17:21
Janne123 well, reflash helped me in my app problem and i was trying to install nitdroid. when i tried to create folder with x-term like in quide it didnt do anything, what to do?17:22
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chem|stJanne123: ->querry17:23
chem|stquery...17:23
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dRbiGanyone living in brussels here?17:24
chem|stdRbiG: nope 3h...17:25
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FauxFauxBrussels is the city in which I've thrown up the second highest number of times, I think.17:27
dRbiGi'll be there next weekend and grabbing a beer alone seems a bit sad ;)17:27
dRbiGlol17:27
FauxFaux(Goddamn fosdem.)17:27
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lardmanmy head is starting to hurt: http://www.sudokuwiki.org/Strategy_Families17:34
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: (python SMS thingie) what's usage() going to do?17:43
jophish_crash things by the looks of it17:43
DocScrutinizerlol17:43
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* alterego likes http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-1176684617:45
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: I have no idea!17:48
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: it defines an exception in error handler17:54
chem|stDocScrutinizer: don'T?17:54
DocScrutinizererr17:54
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DocScrutinizer for opt, arg in opts:17:55
DocScrutinizer    if opt in ("-h", "--help"):17:55
DocScrutinizer      usage()17:55
DocScrutinizer      sys.exit()17:55
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DocScrutinizerusually this is supposed to call a function usage(){ printf("this is ACMEprog, use for make me a sandwich: sudo ACMEprog make me-a-sandwich")17:56
DocScrutinizerI don't see any def usage():17:57
DocScrutinizerso I thought this is some python builtin, which I don't know what exactly it does17:58
DocScrutinizerthough I'd expect it to print the first large comment in a py prog to stdout, or sth similar17:59
chem|stequivalent argparse17:59
chem|stI am not that into python... but that is an err parser afaik18:00
DocScrutinizerusage()  ???18:00
chem|stDocScrutinizer: no the whole thing is a [help,err] handling18:01
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DocScrutinizerwell, I'm aware of that18:01
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chem|stthe usage() outputs all "usage" if called18:02
chem|stthats what I understand from it18:02
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chem|stsame for -h and --help18:03
chem|st#18:03
chem|stif opt in ("-h", "--help"):18:03
chem|st# usage()18:03
chem|st# sys.exit()#18:03
chem|stif opt in ("-h", "--help"):18:03
chem|st# usage()18:03
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chem|st# sys.exit()18:03
DocScrutinizerisn't that exactly what I pasted above?18:04
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: ah right, ok18:04
DocScrutinizerbut I find no >>def usage:18:04
DocScrutinizer>>def usage():   even18:04
DocScrutinizerso...:18:05
DocScrutinizerTraceback (most recent call last):18:05
DocScrutinizer  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>18:05
DocScrutinizerNameError: name 'usage' is not defined18:05
chem|stDocScrutinizer: mmh18:05
DocScrutinizeris probably what you get18:05
kerioyou should use optparse anyway18:05
DocScrutinizerI should do what?18:06
kerioit's in the standard library18:06
kerioparses commandline options18:06
DocScrutinizererr, uhuh18:06
DocScrutinizerkerio: thanks for pointing me to that, but that doesn't help me to understand what http://pastebin.com/Xje5rLgi is doing in line #16418:08
chem|stDocScrutinizer: I get it...18:08
DocScrutinizerand line #17018:09
chem|stDocScrutinizer: there is no help yet so no usage is defined yet18:09
DocScrutinizerisn't that what I said all the time?18:09
DocScrutinizer[2010-11-18 16:57:58] <DocScrutinizer> I don't see any def usage():18:09
chem|stDocScrutinizer: this is not my script... I never said...18:10
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: yeah and I did not know if it is an python internal call from headers or not so I am sorry to confused you additionaly18:11
keriouse optparse18:13
kerioit will *make* a usage screen for you18:13
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DocScrutinizerkerio: for now I'm using nothing except my brain and a html-browser18:17
kerioi was talking to chem|st then18:17
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: (internal call from headers) that's what I was wondering as well, and seems kerio sugests there is some predefined usage() in optparse18:19
keriowhoops, argparse is better18:20
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keriobut it's new in 2.7, so...18:20
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DocScrutinizerso, again my initial question: what is it that usage() is going to print to stdout?18:21
kerioDocScrutinizer: NameError: usage not defined18:21
DocScrutinizeruhuh - now you confused me completely18:22
kerioDocScrutinizer: if there's no usage() and you call usage(), then python happily goes "wtf dude"18:22
keriooptparse has a default usage screen where it lists the options if you call it with -h or if you use wrong options18:22
keriohttp://docs.python.org/library/optparse.html18:22
DocScrutinizerare you suggesting the regular reaction to python xy --help should be NameError: usage not defined ??18:22
kerioof course not18:23
keriobecause good scripts use optparse/argparse or define a way to display some help :)18:23
chem|stkerio: yeah argparse is what I said earlier and that would be my way too (as 20 lines of code get 5...)18:23
keriobut argparse is just a slightly better optparse18:24
kerioand there's no argparse in 2.518:24
keriooptparse was introduced in python 2.318:24
keriooptparse is a more convenient, flexible, and powerful library for parsing command-line options than the old getopt module.18:24
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chem|stkerio: that explains my 2.5 issue lately ;)18:24
kerioheh18:24
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keriosee, it's all there *in the docs*18:25
DocScrutinizerI start to hate python18:25
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kerio:(18:26
keriopython loves you!18:26
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jdphonehi18:29
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chem|stjdphone: lo'18:32
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Janne123hello, could anyone help? pr1.3 with power-kernel and nitdroid18:58
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jacekowskiask18:58
DocScrutinizerkerio: wow, that argparse is a monster18:59
kerioindeed18:59
kerio:)18:59
Janne123chem|st said me that i have to ask help from here:)18:59
DocScrutinizer~ask18:59
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.18:59
chem|stindeed ;)18:59
chem|stok I elaborate19:00
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Janne123well, what u want know?19:00
chem|stJanne123 got PR1.3 with power-kernel (version I do not know) and wants to install nitdroid, device is prepared now for install but I do not know about p-kernel issues19:01
Janne123ty:)19:01
chem|stwell I am late now anyway...19:01
Janne123i reflashed yesterday pr1.3 global version(newest, i think so)19:02
chem|stand Janne123 got another bootloader I don't know if that ships with titan19:02
chem|stbye now19:03
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Janne123does anyone has something ideas for my nitdroid problem!19:12
Janne123?*19:12
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threshyo19:15
threshany plans for that 'make linux kernel not suck' patch to arrive in n900's kernels?19:15
alteregoNot likely.19:15
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alteregoAnd tbh, I don't think you'll notice a great improvement ..19:15
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threshwell duh, everything is better than it is right now19:16
jacekowskithresh: it's not going to help on n900 anyways19:16
alteregothresh: why, what is wrong with now?19:16
jacekowskithresh: it's only for high load desktops19:17
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alteregoI bet it'd do more harm than good on the N900 tbh.19:17
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jacekowskiyep19:17
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jacekowskigiving PA less resources19:17
alteregoYeah,19:18
jacekowskibut hmm, giving active app higher priority wouldn't be bad idea19:18
jacekowskithing is that would have to be done on X level19:18
alteregoUntil you get a phone call and the callui doesn't start :P19:18
threshalterego: well, everything is laggy19:18
threshsay, you receive a gsm call and get your mobile phone in your hand19:18
alteregothresh: is it?19:18
threshit redraws to portrait mode and that takes like a second19:18
jacekowskithresh: that patch doesn't change your cpu into rubber19:19
jacekowskithresh: that's normal19:19
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threshorly19:19
alteregoWell, set it to landscape then.19:19
threshi know that's gtk... but still that's not normal19:19
alteregoI don't have an issue with the transition tbh ..19:19
alteregoO_o19:19
jacekowskiit's on n90019:19
alteregoHas nothing to do with Gtk19:19
alteregoIt's the app startup time.19:19
threshstartup??19:19
RST38hheya thresh19:19
threshit is already on a screen19:19
alteregoIf you keep callui open all the time, you wont have that issue.19:19
jacekowskithresh: nope19:19
jacekowskithresh: it's preload image you see19:20
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jacekowskithresh: app is starting in background19:20
threshmeh19:20
* slonopotamus found out today that python is 60x slower than C on average19:20
alteregoAnd if you set it to stay in landscape, it wont need to transition.19:20
threshRST38h: hey, whatsup?19:20
threshalterego: yeah, nice way to add latency for and end-user19:20
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RST38hthresh: Not much, lazily creating Ovi Suite replacement in php19:22
alteregoHeh19:22
alteregoAwful, why not Qt/C++ ? :P19:22
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RST38halterego: Because PHP is the best tool for the job19:27
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alteregow00f19:27
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* alterego tries to invisage a time when PHP is anything other than scht.19:29
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ieatlintpeople hate on php too much... can't we just go back to hating on perl?19:29
alteregoI'm non-descriminate of those two :P19:30
alteregoI expect to get a lot of hate from people soon by publishing my app on Ovi19:31
alteregoSo I'm just trying to be an ass ^.^19:31
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RST38hphp handles its job pretty well19:31
RST38hbut it is a scripting language, not the solution for all world's problems19:31
alteregoYou're doing it because scripting is easier that programming something properly and better :P19:32
ieatlintphp is my choice of quick and dirty scripting19:32
ieatlintmind you, i wouldn't run a web accelerator written in it like a certain major internet company, but it still does some things quickly and simply19:32
RST38halterego: I am doing it because I need scripting for my project19:32
alteregoWell, I feel more comfortable doing things in Python or Ruby, if I'm scripting something together.19:33
alteregoOr UNIX shell stuff.19:33
RST38hWell, some people like it from behind, indeed....19:33
ieatlintlearning curve on php is less for c/c++ devs... that has its benefits19:33
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ieatlintand php is only that terrible if it becomes a resource bottleneck, which for something like an ovi suite app is not likely19:34
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RST38hWell, sqlite will most likely become the resource bottleneck19:35
slonopotamusieatlint, i read that as 'good for noobs'19:35
slonopotamus'and code monkeys'19:36
alteregoHeh19:36
Arkenoiseems that missing email notifications still happen with NM in PR1.319:37
slonopotamuslearning curve is a one-time problem. performance, bugginess, expressivity do matter always while you use a tool.19:37
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ieatlintheh19:37
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ieatlintnoob is a language bias based on popular sentiments... i'd fully agree that php isn't the right choice in a lot of circumstances, but no matter how much you disagree, php is a proven language on production systems in MANY places19:38
ieatlintand somehow, despite it being php, shit keeps running19:39
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alteregoAfter hack on hack on hack on hack on hack ...19:39
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slonopotamusmeh. show me _any_ webapp written in java that is vulnerable to sql injections.19:40
ieatlintclearly you know better than they do :P19:40
slonopotamusand _every_ php is/was19:40
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ieatlinti'd rather not look at a java webapp long enough to see if it has injection issues19:40
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slonopotamusthe fact that you didn't care to learn it doesn't mean there's something wrong with it.19:42
ieatlinti didn't say there was19:42
ieatlinti was simply saying that dismissing php was short-sided, i never actually insulted another language, except perl :P19:43
Janne123can anyone help with nitdroid on pr1.3?19:43
alteregoJanne123: #nitdroid19:43
Janne123no-one help:)19:43
slonopotamuscan anyone help with gentoo on pr1.3?19:43
Janne123here is more life...19:43
ieatlintalthough i do like being called a noob because i took the time to learn c, but not python19:43
alteregoSome, less people care here :P19:43
Janne123lol19:44
Janne123here is friendly guys. right?;)19:44
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Janne123i have power-kernel19:44
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alteregoDepends on your definition of friendly, seriously Janne123 this isn't the place.19:45
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slonopotamusJanne123, we eat small girls for dinner. with a very friendly smile.19:46
slonopotamus:P19:46
Janne123im boy!19:46
slonopotamusi didn't say the opposite19:47
ieatlintthat's good then, most people in here don't know how  to talk to women19:47
Janne123janne is boy's name in finland:)19:47
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* slonopotamus gets back to his small world conquering program19:48
Janne123i change my name, all people thinks im girl:)19:48
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RST38hslono: got lasers?19:48
slonopotamusRST38h, that's too simple19:49
slonopotamusRST38h, writing package manager to install skynet :P19:49
SpeedEvilhttp://xkcd.com/353/19:50
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RST38hslono: youmean, apt-get is notgood enough?19:53
slonopotamusSpeedEvil, it should be 'from __future__ import antigravity' :)19:53
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Shapeshifterdamn, my device is totally messed up, and I have no clue why19:54
ShapeshifterI didn't even do anything19:54
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slonopotamusRST38h, it doesn't support useflags :P19:54
Shapeshiftermicrob and opera won't download stuff. they just stop at 0%. microb even freezes with a banner in front, telling me there's not enough space. Sometimes when I upgrade apps, it tells me there's no space. And now like 7/8 of my tasks in the calendar disappeared. randomly.19:55
Shapeshifterand I have enough space on all partitions19:55
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Shapeshifter360; on home/opt, almost 4G on MyDocs19:56
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Shapeshifter66M on rootfs19:56
Shapeshifterit's all broken19:56
DocScrutinizeralterego: janne123's problem is how to combine powerkernel and nitdroid into a multiboot enabled system on N900. So probably he's not completely wrong in this chan19:57
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DocScrutinizerthough the problem actually is very specific and only few users here will know decent details and can give advice19:58
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hatebreederdo u know?19:59
DocScrutinizerI doubt on #nitdroid it's any better a situation19:59
hatebreederand reflash and restore worked yesterday:)19:59
hatebreederon nitdroid no-one help...19:59
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DocScrutinizerbasically I guess nitdroid *might* come with some "proprietary" multiboot solution, and most recent powerkernel comes with uBoot. I'd be surprised if those two play together nicely20:01
pupnikspeaking of hate, when are we going to get a translation layer between android and normal linux20:03
DocScrutinizeranyway, the porper root question is: "how to integrate nitdroid (and its boot tool whatever it is) into a uBoot enabled multiboot system with maemo as primary system?"20:03
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: proper root question is how to build dalvik with glibc20:05
hatebreedercan i remove power_kernel and then try nitdroid somehow?20:05
DocScrutinizeradditional hint for nitdroid cracks: uBoot is integrated with kernel on NAND kernel partition20:05
DocScrutinizerhatebreeder: I can't answer this question as I have no idea about nitdroid20:06
RST38hpupnik: there is a project like that for ubuntu20:07
RST38hHmmm, Eldar Murtazin vs Nokia continues20:07
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DocScrutinizerhatebreeder: and honestly I couldn't care less about Xdridiot, whether an* or nit*20:08
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DocScrutinizerIf I were interested in andridiot I'd have bought a milestone20:08
DocScrutinizerI mean that's like buying a apple macbook pro for the sole purpose to run windows on it20:10
hatebreederi had owned sgs, htc desire etvc20:10
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RST38hDoc: I know a guy who ha done that20:10
hatebreederand i only wanted to test android on n900 but if it doesnt work, i dont try it then20:11
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lardman|homeRST38h: linky?20:14
RST38hlardman: it is in Russian20:15
lardman|homehatebreeder: some things work, some don't afaiu - e.g. gps doesn't work20:15
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lardman|homeRST38h: ah ok, might skip that then :)20:15
RST38hlardman: but, to recap, he claims that nearly 100% of N8 and C7 are defective20:15
RST38hlardman: random reboots, bricks20:16
hatebreederlardman,  read bugs etc from nitdroid's webpage:)20:16
lardman|homehw or sw?20:16
RST38hhe clims it is hw20:16
lardman|homehatebreeder: ah ok you know about it then20:16
hatebreederi know some issues...20:16
RST38hbased on some circumstantial data from the comments, it might be Ovi Maps fucking up the filesystem though20:16
lardman|homeah well20:17
RST38hor his wishful fantasy20:17
hatebreederi like maemo for more than android but i like only to test it20:17
hatebreederdoes anyone has something ideas what i do with n900?:)20:18
DocScrutinizerhatebreeder: if you revert your system to a stock PR1.3 setup (probably by another flashing), so there's no mor epowerkernel and uBoot in the way - you can use nitdroid following their generic instructions about how to install it. This is a mere guess as I never even touched nitdroid or their website or docs20:18
hatebreederi dont know how i ask it but i hope you understood it...20:19
lardman|hometime to go, bbl20:20
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hatebreederin example how i overclock this device? will it "eat" more power if i overclock?20:21
DocScrutinizerit will eat CPU if you do20:21
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DocScrutinizeras in "dead device or acting up device (segfaults etc) after relatively short period of use"20:21
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merlin1991uh oh, I opened my n900 battery cover, and a small piece of metal came out20:22
DocScrutinizeroverclocking is absolutely deprecated and discouraged20:22
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991: N900 breeding? :-P20:23
merlin1991dunno20:23
DocScrutinizerwhat piece of metal?20:23
merlin1991I'll make a pic20:23
SpeedEvilmerlin1991: SIM cover and microSD cover present?20:24
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DocScrutinizerlens cover spring comes to mind. and that crappy spring for stylus that ate up lcuk's stylus20:25
DocScrutinizerstand spring20:26
DocScrutinizersprings (plural)20:26
merlin1991http://i54.tinypic.com/aniqyq.jpg20:27
SpeedEvilthat's the lens cover catch20:27
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: ate up?20:27
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: how20:28
DocScrutinizerstand spring20:28
SpeedEviloh20:28
SpeedEvilmaybe not20:28
Turskiyea, that's the stand spring20:28
merlin1991possible to fit in again, or broken for live?20:29
DocScrutinizerthe "middle" ne of those two20:29
SpeedEvilDoes anyone actually use the stand?20:29
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TurskiSpeedEvil: yes20:29
DocScrutinizerrarely20:29
Turskimerlin1991: maybe with good glue...20:29
TurskiSpeedEvil: i use it quite often20:29
merlin1991freekin sloppy manufacturing20:30
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: you *could* try to use cyanoacrylate to fix it in place20:30
DocScrutinizeror get a new back cover, or simply ignore20:30
Turskithere's another spring left :)20:30
SpeedEvilOr weld on new PP with a cool soldering iron20:30
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: or you still have waranty covered, and get a replacement for free20:31
merlin1991I think my warranty is over20:31
merlin1991but what does it actually do?20:31
DocScrutinizerdoes stand still work somehow?20:31
merlin1991ah now i get it20:31
DocScrutinizerI gues it does20:31
DocScrutinizerso ignore it20:32
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merlin1991I think I'll fix it :D20:32
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merlin1991actually, naah20:33
merlin1991I'll leave it :D20:33
DocScrutinizerit's actually pretty hard to fix, as it's constantly under force. So if you glue it with cyano acrylate, you need some fixture to hold it *tight* for >60 min!20:33
ieatlintlol, google maps just gave me bus instructions that include the priceless step of "Walk to Null"20:34
merlin1991awesome20:34
jogainto the void you go then20:34
ieatlintit apparently will take me 6 minutes to walk to null, and i have 8 minutes to do it20:35
merlin1991ieatlint, best thing though is if you tell google to route you from china to japan20:35
DocScrutinizerif you're late, you're doomed to linger on as a ghost forever20:35
merlin1991take a close look @ step 42 :D20:36
ieatlintmerlin1991: hehe, yeah, they have that across the atlantic too20:37
ieatlintused to say swim though20:37
merlin1991anyone in here a mappero wizzard? I want to peload some maps but the inap mappreload is rather unintuitive to use :D20:37
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merlin1991hm how long does the warranty go after they replaced the phone? mine got replaced a few months ago20:42
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DocScrutinizerusually waranty doesn't extend (except for the part repaired)20:44
RST38hNikolai Pryanishnikov is bulshitting you.20:44
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merlin1991hm part repaired, I got a completely new one20:44
RST38hWhich is not surprising, really, given that he is Microsoft's top choose20:44
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merlin1991wonder if that counts xD20:44
DocScrutinizernope20:45
RST38hs/choose/cheese20:45
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merlin1991then I'm out of the warranty time, though20:45
merlin1991err20:45
merlin1991s/though/doh/20:45
DocScrutinizerit's still only for the part originally broken, and even this doesn't apply everywhere (all legislations)20:45
merlin1991back then the emmc was broken, but they never told me it was, I went there "uh nothing works" and a month later I got a new one "uh we couldn't repair it, be happy with this new device"20:46
DocScrutinizerhmm20:47
DocScrutinizerusually no warranty extension included20:47
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: as far as i know warranty only extends by time phone spent in service20:48
DocScrutinizerin EU though, you got 2 years warranty for defects that were caused by poor manufacturing20:48
merlin1991yeah just found that out20:49
merlin1991yay20:49
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merlin1991go nokia get me a new backcover :P20:50
* slonopotamus votes for reset of warranty time to initial value on each repair20:50
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slonopotamusbecause otherwise vendors are not interested in _really_ fixing the problem20:53
slonopotamusas with n900 usb connector. it broke? oh well, here you are a new mobo.20:54
slonopotamuscome back when it breaks again20:54
RST38hwell, the connector has been a real mess20:54
RST38hcannot easily fix it with unprofessional labor20:54
slonopotamusRST38h, the point is that nokia is _not_ fixing it20:55
RST38hcheaper to let monkeys swap the whole thing20:55
slonopotamusjust replace mobos until warranty ends and n900 is eoled20:55
RST38hslono: yep20:55
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slonopotamuscausing warranty time to reset would require at least making sure it can survive whole warranty period20:56
slonopotamus(though that might lead to reduction of warranty period :)20:57
RST38hwill make gadgets more expensive20:58
slonopotamusi bet next device will have same usb connector :)20:58
slonopotamus...20:58
RST38hactually, we have not tried it yet here, I think: compete in guessing how awful the nexxt device will be :)20:59
slonopotamusit wasn't expensive to properly make usb connector20:59
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slonopotamusand i don't believe it wasn't stress-tested21:00
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RST38hwell, I am sure it "was"21:02
DocScrutinizerhehe21:02
RST38hi.e. someone checked the line "USB connector" at the stress test list21:02
* RST38h asks the Tentacled One to reveal Himself to Nokia's top management and command them to bring back the 3.5" power jack21:03
RST38h3.5mm, sorry21:03
DocScrutinizerto me it seems a lot of USB problems are due to improper soldering (component not flush with PCB, not enough solder applied, not all 4 posts soldered properly)21:04
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RST38hnah21:04
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RST38hSurface mounted component + the lever made by USB jack plugged into it21:04
DocScrutinizersure21:05
DocScrutinizerbut still21:05
RST38hthat is all that is required, manufacturing is not to blame here21:05
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RST38hAt the end, you still end up tearing the PCB traces off the board, with your connector, the solder, etc21:05
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DocScrutinizerthat happened amazingly seldom though21:06
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DocScrutinizerquite a number of "fatalities" were repairable21:06
ieatlintRST38h: nokia n8 phone has the barrel power connector (assuming that's what you mean by the 3.5mm jack, although i think it's closer to 2mm)... the n9 may very well have it too21:06
DocScrutinizerthe device I disassembled had poor solder joints at usb posts21:07
RST38hieatlint: the one you are talking about is prbably 2.5mm jack21:08
RST38hieatlint: more fragile than the 3.5mm but still better than the goddamn microusb abomination21:08
DocScrutinizerieatlint: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277344  bad luck21:09
ieatlintah21:09
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ieatlintthat's right, i remember those pics now21:10
ieatlintand how it appeared to just be solder holding on the usb connector there too21:10
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DocScrutinizeryes, same crap21:10
RST38hnot the final hw though21:15
* slonopotamus adds #0 to his checklist for new device buying - check how connectors are held :)21:17
DocScrutinizerRST38h: I'd not hold my breath for major changes21:17
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RST38hslono: you are still buying that n9 though :)21:18
RST38hadmit it21:18
slonopotamuslast nokia thing i bought was 311021:19
slonopotamusn800 was a present on birthday, n900 was presented by nokia representative21:19
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DocScrutinizero.O21:20
RST38hlet us not dwell on how exactly you will get your hands on that n9 :)21:20
slonopotamusbefore that i owned 3510 :)21:21
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer, wut?21:21
DocScrutinizerone thing's for sure. I'm not planning to spend money on that N9 right atm21:21
DocScrutinizercapacitive ts is a nogo in my book21:22
DocScrutinizerplus the resulting "comes without sylus" of course21:22
DocScrutinizerstylus even21:23
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slonopotamuswith a glass?21:23
jacekowskii don't have problem with capacitive21:24
jacekowskias long as apps are designed for it21:24
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slonopotamuswhat worries me - how much it is fall-proof21:24
jacekowskislonopotamus: well, iphone is using glass21:24
RST38hmade of aluminum, isn't it?21:24
jacekowskislonopotamus: and it can take quite a bit21:24
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: meh, never seen a proper c-ts adapted app like e.g numpty physics21:25
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DocScrutinizertbh the "apps designed for c-ts" are exactly what worries me about c-ts21:26
jacekowskii'm evil21:26
jacekowskii just called my sister to tell her "do you know that your father had an accident on motorway"21:26
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: BS, iPhone is plastic21:26
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it's glass on front21:27
DocScrutinizeruhuh21:27
slonopotamusjacekowski, she answered 'no'?21:27
slonopotamusiphone doesn't have kb, forget about it :P21:28
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jacekowskiand at least now i'll have pictures of his car after accident21:28
johnsqHi21:28
slonopotamusjohnsq, hello, mister. how things go?21:28
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: if you think it's glass, you'll not mind touching it with a 450°C solder iron tip, will you?21:29
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: sure21:29
johnsqslonopotamus: good, uwm finished, now a new project.21:29
slonopotamusjohnsq, link? :)21:29
DocScrutinizerhaha, so tell me about your findings21:29
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it's glass21:29
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it cracks like a glass21:30
RST38hDoc: it may break21:30
DocScrutinizerI know for sure iPhone 2 yeras ago had NO glass21:30
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it's resistant21:30
johnsqslonopotamus: http://uwm.sourceforge.net/ released21:30
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i know for sure that i couldn't scratch 3g with screwdriver21:30
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: and i had less scratches on iphone screen than on n90021:30
slonopotamusjacekowski, hmm... it definitely is not a glass then :)21:30
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jacekowskislonopotamus: why?21:31
* ColdFyre is modding his n900 with a 4g chip21:31
DocScrutinizerwe did steel ball impact tests on iPhone ts vs gta03 ts, on OM, 2 years ago. This was no glass for sure21:31
slonopotamusjacekowski, because glass can be scratched with a screw?21:31
pupnikhttp://whereisben.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/compucamp.jpg  That is me in 1981 [ compucamp ]21:31
ColdFyrei am adding the 4g so it will be 7g (3+4)21:31
jacekowski The iPhone screen is made of optical-quality, chemically treated glass — not polycarbonate plastic like the iPod's screen21:31
jacekowskislonopotamus: nope21:31
DocScrutinizersince when?21:32
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it's glass since always21:32
DocScrutinizerhmm, wonder what we tested at OM then21:33
jacekowskihttp://forums.ilounge.com/1277574-post4.html21:33
jacekowskiit cracks like a glass21:33
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: even wikipedia says glass21:34
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slonopotamus(and ducks like a glass? :P )21:34
DocScrutinizereven ice cracks like glass, this is a proof for exactly nothing21:34
luke-jrjacekowski: it cracks like safetyglass, not glass21:35
DocScrutinizerbtw this does NOT look like glass21:35
DocScrutinizerexactly21:35
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: ++21:35
jacekowskiaminosilicate glass21:35
slonopotamusbtw21:35
jacekowskialuminosilicate*21:35
DocScrutinizerhahaha21:35
jacekowskiit's not a plastic for sure21:36
DocScrutinizerwell a bit of difference between amino and alumino21:36
slonopotamus> 3 feet < that's why i asked about being fall-proof21:36
jacekowskiit's not typical window glass21:36
jacekowskislonopotamus: i dropped it couple times and had no problems21:36
jacekowskislonopotamus: it all depends how it falls21:36
slonopotamus...21:37
jacekowskislonopotamus: if you drop it and it's plastic then plastic may pass shock to lcd behind it21:37
slonopotamusdown :P21:37
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jacekowskislonopotamus: you need a lot of bad luck21:37
jacekowskislonopotamus: but that's why iphone has that metal frame around screen21:37
slonopotamusjacekowski, guy from your link dropped it just from 3 feet21:38
jacekowskislonopotamus: so it will absorb most of shock if you don't drop it straight flat21:38
jacekowskibad luck21:38
jacekowskistone21:38
slonopotamusand you wanted a sofa?21:39
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: also a quick googling suggests this aluminosilicate glass came new with iPhone421:39
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slonopotamusw/e. moral: glass screens can break in terrible ways :)21:42
slonopotamusand don't buy iphone, because if you do, it might fall21:44
RST38hJust dont buy anything at all21:45
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luke-jrbuy a diamond.21:46
luke-jrthey don't break easily21:46
slonopotamus:D21:46
luke-jrbetter yet. Nokia should use a diamond screen on N921:46
slonopotamusluke-jr, i start to suspect you're an optim st21:47
slonopotamus*i21:47
luke-jrprove it21:47
luke-jroptimist = happy idiot21:48
luke-jrpessimist = sad idiot21:48
RST38hhumanist = ?21:48
luke-jrevil21:48
RST38hmasochist = ?21:48
luke-jrevil21:48
RST38hmachinist = ?21:48
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luke-jrfun21:49
RST38hspeaking of the evil...21:49
slonopotamus...21:50
luke-jrmy baby needs to either stfu or be awake when I give her the bottle21:50
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slonopotamus(s)he doesn't care what you need.21:51
luke-jrsrsly, she cries a bit for a bottle. then when I go over there she's sound asleep21:51
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slonopotamusluke-jr, how's n900 usb connector? :) tilts?21:53
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crashanddie_I read that as "tits"21:53
luke-jrsame as always has been?21:53
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mc_teohey21:54
luke-jrNO U21:54
luke-jrhay is for horses21:54
mc_teoi have an idea for an application21:54
luke-jrmc_teo: write it21:55
mc_teobut i need part of it to run constantly in the background21:55
luke-jrthen we need to boycott it21:55
slonopotamusbattery drain, yep21:56
mc_teoso like have a minimalistic server21:56
crashanddie_mc_teo: daemonise it, named pipe, done21:56
* DocScrutinizer coughs and wanders off for dinner21:56
mc_teobut it only it only would only need to loop like every 15 mins21:57
luke-jryay for cron?21:57
crashanddie_mc_teo: sleep(15000)21:57
mc_teocrashanddie: i was thinking of that, but how would i get it to restart every reboot21:57
crashanddie_woah21:57
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crashanddie_headache fail21:57
crashanddie_mc_teo: service?21:57
crashanddie_mc_teo: /etc/inittab?21:57
slonopotamuscrashanddie, your clock is broken21:57
crashanddie_slonopotamus: it is21:58
* luke-jr smacks crashanddie for messing with /etc/inittab21:58
crashanddie_slonopotamus: 900?21:58
slonopotamuscrashanddie_, smth like that, yep21:58
GAN900crashanddie_, more fail than that.21:58
slonopotamusms?21:58
slonopotamusno, secs21:59
slonopotamuscrashanddie_, and don't read that as sex21:59
crashanddie_I wouldn't22:00
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alteregoGAN900: I'm selling out and submitting an app to Ovi ..22:01
alteregoto be fair, I've been working on it for about 3 months22:01
GAN900alterego, which one?22:01
alteregoMy GPS app22:01
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GAN900Ah, cool.22:01
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alteregoAlmost finished it now :)22:02
crashanddie_luke-jr: what's wrong with playing with inittab?22:02
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RST38hzogggg22:02
trumee_alterego, what does it do?22:03
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slonopotamuscrashanddie_, evil unix demons won't be happy.22:04
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: don't YOU play with MY inittab. That simple22:04
crashanddie_well, inittab, chkconfig, whatev22:04
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DocScrutinizeron a more elaborate answer: inittab isn't manageable by whatever install mechanism22:05
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alteregotrumee: it's basically just an application that lets you use the GPS in a way similar to hand held GPS' from the 90s22:05
alteregoIt's got some cool features, just no mapping.22:06
trumeealterego, cool22:08
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alteregoI don't expect it to sell much, but it does look quite cool :D22:08
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crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: chkconfig foobar on22:12
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mc_teoso22:18
mc_teoservices is the way to go?22:18
crashanddie_mc_teo: well, you've got two options22:19
crashanddie_mc_teo: cron or daemon (service)22:19
crashanddie_the cron is good because you only need a periodical hit (every 15 minutes), and that's exactly what cron was designed for22:19
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mc_teobut for anyone else to install it would need cron then too22:20
crashanddie_but, if the services has a lot of startup overhead (building objects, starting sockets, etc), then a service would be more interesting22:20
mc_teowell it just checks the gps for a bit22:21
mc_teolike gets coordindates22:22
mc_teothe a little bit of processing22:22
alteregoUrgh22:23
alteregoSounds like a horrible app :P22:23
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mc_teothat depends on the processing22:24
mc_teocheck proximity to recorded coordinates, and runs a command based on them22:24
mc_teofor example, if near school, put on silent22:25
mc_teoif at home, turn off silent22:25
mc_teoetc22:25
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alteregoThe latency will be quite bad then.22:28
mecealterego, hello22:29
alteregoHey mece22:29
alteregoYou asked me something earlier, but I've forgotten what it was about ;)22:29
meceme too22:29
meceywa righty22:29
mececan one throw some qml ui stuff on op of a qwidget with stuff in it?22:30
alteregoActually, you just ping'd me, and I pong'd back, but then went away ^.^22:30
alteregoYes22:30
mecealterego, that's sweet.22:30
alteregoYou can render a QML viewport onto a widget, and then set a layout on the widget and have other widgets on that widget.22:30
meceuhu..22:31
alteregoYeah, it's prretty flexible, I've been working on mixing OpenGL, QML, and Qt.22:31
mececooky!22:31
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meceteehee coco22:35
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NooBmonk3yHas anyone got an example autobuilder rules file i can see please? :) (Still got a slight packaging issue!)22:45
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djszapiWhich is the proper qstardict version for Fremantle ? -> I have tried this one on my N900, but it required a newer qt core that is installed by default: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/q/qstardict/qstardict_0.13.2-3fb_armel.deb22:47
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djszapithe diablo one is too old meanwhile :/22:48
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djszapimmh, I could install, but it causes a segmentation fault if I try to run it.22:57
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ieatlintNooBmonk3y: automake you mean?23:00
NooBmonk3ydo i ? lol23:00
ieatlintconfigure.ac23:00
NooBmonk3yusing autobuilder23:00
NooBmonk3yand no i mean rules file23:00
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ieatlintlike the debian rules file?23:00
ieatlinthttps://github.com/ieatlint/MagRead/blob/master/debian/rules has an example of one23:01
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ieatlintwhich is taken almost verbatim from a wiki.maemo.org page23:01
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NooBmonk3yoo ty!!23:03
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ieatlinthttp://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging_Qt_Creator_Apps_for_Maemo_Extras is the source for that23:04
ieatlintpacking deb files is almost as evil as automake23:05
pupnikwhat's a fileservice to upload mp3s without hassle?23:05
pupniki need to share some music23:05
pupnik(it's mine)23:05
WakiMikoomploader23:05
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pupniklink?23:06
NooBmonk3yieatlint, the reason i ask is autobuilder keeps throwing me errors like this23:07
NooBmonk3ycd builddir && qmake-qt4 PREFIX=/usr ../maecount.pro23:07
NooBmonk3y .          /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: qmake-qt4: command not found23:08
NooBmonk3y(i put the dot it, lol sorry - didnt like the / in irc23:08
ieatlintgo take a look at that wiki page... saved my ass with it23:08
NooBmonk3yokies :| - have spent 3 hours reading, wikis, blogs etc, but will keep trying!23:08
WakiMikopupnik: http://ompldr.org/23:09
ieatlintyeah, took me more time than i want to admit to package that shit23:09
NooBmonk3ymeh23:09
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NooBmonk3yits the same as my line on that wiki page23:09
NooBmonk3ycd builddir && qmake-qt4 PREFIX=/usr ../$(APPNAME).pro23:09
djszapiwhere can I download dictionaries onto my N900 ?23:10
NooBmonk3yhttps://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/maecount_0.8.5/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt  :(23:10
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ieatlintperhaps it sets the environment differently23:11
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TurskiNooBmonk3y: how about that: Make sure it has these on the "Build-Depends" line: debhelper (>= 5), libqt4-dev23:13
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janembahello23:14
Turskii don't know anything about debian/maemo packaging, but sounds like you are missing some tools23:14
janembaI'd like to know if it exists a way to copy/paste a wpa2 key ?23:14
NooBmonk3yty turski will check23:15
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janembaor add a wifi connection on the n900 using pc suite ?23:18
janemba???23:21
janembasomeone alive ?23:21
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NooBmonk3yTurski, i want your babies!!!!!!!!!!!23:24
NooBmonk3ymaecount 0.8.5Fremantle Extras-devel free i386Build succeededSystem2010-11-18 21:23 UTC23:24
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Turskigood23:25
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TurskiNooBmonk3y: so you didn't follow the wiki ;)23:26
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NooBmonk3yTurski, i've had so much help in the last 4/5 days.........that i'm fried23:29
NooBmonk3yhave changed every files23:29
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NooBmonk3ygot it building, then nothing appeared in the apps menu23:29
NooBmonk3yso changed it all again and got that error23:29
NooBmonk3ynow trying to see if the app is there this time!23:30
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NooBmonk3y30+ builds and i'm exhausted!23:30
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NooBmonk3yand double yay!!!!!!!!!!23:31
NooBmonk3ythe icon is there!23:31
NooBmonk3yomg23:31
NooBmonk3y4 days of hell, finally!23:31
NooBmonk3ylol23:31
NooBmonk3ydoesnt load on click23:31
NooBmonk3y tap*23:31
NooBmonk3ybut oh well23:31
NooBmonk3yjust highlights23:31
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NooBmonk3ywhich makes me think the exec line is wrong?23:31
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TurskiNooBmonk3y: try starting it from terminal23:34
Turskii'm off to sleep now ->23:34
jacekowskiNooBmonk3y: i managed to get my first package done in under 1023:34
NooBmonk3yjacekowski, 10 years?23:35
NooBmonk3yTy Turski23:35
NooBmonk3ymy python one built within a few mins and was fine, but the autobuilder is evil23:35
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jacekowskitries23:36
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jacekowskiif you are talking about time, then it depends23:36
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jacekowskiif we are talking about my autobuilder or maemo autobuilder23:36
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NooBmonk3ymaemo23:36
jacekowskimine is faster23:37
TurskiArch linux packaging <323:37
jacekowskihmm, chrome compiled under 20 minutes23:37
NooBmonk3yright, what should the Exec line in a .desktop file look like, as i assume that is my problem?23:37
NooBmonk3yExec=maecount23:37
jacekowskiNooBmonk3y: /opt/something/maecount23:37
jacekowskiNooBmonk3y: full path23:37
NooBmonk3yjacekowski, the compiling doesnt matter its the getting everything right so it does compile!23:37
djszapiHow can I check which is PR version is on my n900 ?23:38
jacekowskidjszapi: it's in about23:38
jacekowskidjszapi: in settings23:38
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djszapihttp://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_root_pr1-2_armel/libqt4-core/4.6.2~git20100401-0maemo1+0m5/ -> Where can I download it ?23:39
djszapiI do not see any PR version in the about, rly.23:39
djszapiNokia N900 Maemo 5 Version: 2.2009-51-123:39
djszapithat is all.23:39
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jacekowskidjszapi: don't23:40
jacekowskidjszapi: it's old package and it will break your phone23:40
djszapiwell...23:41
djszapiqt 4.7 does not work...23:41
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djszapiqstardict causes segfault, gdb shows libQtGui...23:41
jacekowskiit does23:41
djszapiProgram received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.23:41
djszapiit does ?23:41
djszapi0x406a91a8 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.423:41
jacekowskibacktrace23:41
djszapi0x406a91a8:ldrr4, [r4, #24]23:41
djszapi^^^23:41
jacekowskitype bt23:41
djszapi^^^23:41
jacekowskiis that all?23:42
djszapiyes23:42
djszapi#0  0x406a91a8 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.423:42
djszapi#1  0x406a91a8 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.423:42
djszapiBacktrace stopped: previous frame identical to this frame (corrupt stack?)23:42
ShadowJKhm, is there a -dbg package for qt..23:42
djszapino idea why qstardict causes segfault..23:42
jacekowskiproblem is somewhere else23:42
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djszapiI as a user should not debug a very basic package like qtgui...23:43
ShadowJKyes23:43
djszapiotherwise they just should reimburse my money ;)23:43
ShadowJKthat's right23:43
jacekowskidjszapi: if you pass wrong parameters to it it will do strange things23:43
djszapiI did not pass _any_ parameter.23:43
djszapiqstardict, that is all.23:43
jacekowskidjszapi: but qstardict did23:43
jacekowskisomething is wrong there23:43
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djszapithat is true...23:43
djszapibut I would expect, if I install it from extra, it just should work.23:44
wmaroneworksforme23:44
wmaroneheh23:44
gustavo-ferreiraHi all, i was wondering if someone in here could help me on get a title for a really good book on programmin in C on Linux? Although i use linux for about an year and half, i consider myself a newbie on this matter. I know how to program in C, but just the ANSI C. I'm right now with my eyes on this book: http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Programming-Unleashed-Kurt-Wall/dp/0672316072. Could someone suggest if this book is good enough or if23:44
gustavo-ferreira there is a better one? Just remember, it has to be a book for newbie. Thank you in advanced!23:44
djszapithere are plenty of books outside.23:45
djszapijacekowski: does qstardict work for you ?23:45
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djszapimstardict starts, but I cannot pass any dictionary to it.23:47
gustavo-ferreirabut if you could tell me one that would fit my needs, i really would appreciate it.23:47
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djszapireally a lot.23:47
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djszapiI have got locally 150+ C, C++ books on my PC23:47
djszapistarting point: K&R, but it is completely off-topic by now23:48
DocScrutinizergustavo-ferreira: please tell djszapi it's absolutely not helpful when he answers such meaningless bullshit on a valid question. I'd tell him myself, but he considered it appropriate to take me on his ignore list, when I suggested some good lecture to him23:48
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DocScrutinizerbtw he has no monopoly to define what's on topic in this channel. He doe NOT OWN this cheannel :-(23:49
DocScrutinizerI'm temped to kickBAN him this time23:49
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gustavo-ferreirathank you for your understand DocScrutinizer23:50
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DocScrutinizerwhen somebody brags with 150+ books on his PC, but isn't able to develop any opinion about which of them are opod and which are not worth it... Meh, what does that tell about such a guy23:53
DocScrutinizermakes me think he hasn't read a single one of those books23:53
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DocScrutinizerit's just funny a man with such a heap of documentation and instructions at the tips of his fingers has to come here and ask noob questions about basic things how to use ifconfig23:54
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djszapithat is odd the 'official' repository packages cause segfault.23:56
DocScrutinizergustavo-ferreira: try later, when there are less posers and more nice experienced hackers around23:57
gustavo-ferreiraok, thank you anyway23:58
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