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| mc_teo | how stable are the Qt4.7 python bindings? | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| mc_teo | id prefer pyqt rather than pyside | 00:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm so tired of the stupid N900 crashing Finder.app. | 00:04 |
| timeless_xchat | stable as in crashy? | 00:04 |
| timeless_xchat | generalantilles: how's it manage that? | 00:05 |
| timeless_xchat | improper eject? | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hell if I know. | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | When browsing directories | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll fail to load a folder every once and a while | 00:05 |
| timeless_xchat | got a stack? | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which gives you a spinning beach ball. | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then it wont restart with a -10810 error | 00:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which requires a reboot | 00:06 |
| timeless_xchat | awesome | 00:06 |
| jacekowski | GeneralAntilles: it's not n900 crashing it | 00:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Snow Leopard bug that's brought out by various things. | 00:06 |
| jacekowski | GeneralAntilles: it's finder.app that has a problem | 00:06 |
| timeless_xchat | i'd use dtrace | 00:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | In my case, by the goddamn N900 whenever I need to copy over something critical. | 00:06 |
| timeless_xchat | to get a log | 00:06 |
| jacekowski | i would use windows | 00:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jacekowski: go jump out a window. | 00:07 |
| * GeneralAntilles reboots. | 00:07 | |
| timeless_xchat | heh | 00:07 |
| nox- | timeless_xchat, dtrace on linux? | 00:07 |
| timeless_xchat | does finder.app run on linux? | 00:07 |
| jacekowski | linux has SystemTap | 00:07 |
| * timeless_xchat kicks jacekowski | 00:07 | |
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| nox- | :) | 00:08 |
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| timeless_xchat | oh, it's 0degC outside | 00:09 |
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| sivang | timeless_xchat: snowing? | 00:11 |
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| timeless_xchat | nah | 00:20 |
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| timeless_xchat | ax | 00:20 |
| sp3000 | hammertime | 00:20 |
| timeless_xchat | actually, it seems to have gone up +2deg so far | 00:20 |
| timeless_xchat | sp3000 : did you watch the chilean miner run the nyc marathon? | 00:21 |
| mc_teo | timeless_xchat: well stable as in not crashing epically | 00:21 |
| sp3000 | I did not | 00:21 |
| mc_teo | i just need a qwebkit and a qlistbox | 00:21 |
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| timeless_xchat | "just qwebkit" | 00:24 |
| * timeless_xchat just needs a pony | 00:24 | |
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| timeless_xchat | a listbox should work... | 00:28 |
| timeless_xchat | but expecting a web browser not to crash... | 00:28 |
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| timeless_xchat | ... is asking for more than a pony | 00:28 |
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| timeless_xchat | @central railway station | 00:29 |
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| alterego | Crazy, so when you charge the N900 it goes to max clock speed? | 00:31 |
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| jacekowski | no | 00:32 |
| jacekowski | only when you connect usb | 00:32 |
| jacekowski | for couple seconds | 00:32 |
| nox- | on 1.3 also with charger | 00:32 |
| alterego | Yes, I'm talking about 1.3 | 00:33 |
| nox- | (as DocScrutinizer found using powertop) | 00:33 |
| alterego | mine is currently reporting max freq on usb connected to laptop and fully charged (green led lit) | 00:33 |
| alterego | Unless: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_cur_freq | 00:33 |
| alterego | isn't live? | 00:33 |
| nox- | it is | 00:33 |
| nox- | put a sleep 5 before cat.ing it | 00:34 |
| alterego | Same | 00:34 |
| alterego | Still reporting 500mhz | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | it does. We discussed this in epic length here some days ago. Bug in PR1.3 | 00:34 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: okay, just checking. | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | kernel, I might add | 00:34 |
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| alterego | So, does this effect power kernel users? | 00:35 |
| nox- | nope | 00:35 |
| alterego | (I'm using hostmode2 kernel) | 00:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no, as power kernel not yet has PR1.3 | 00:35 |
| nox- | kernel-power is still ok | 00:35 |
| alterego | Oh, okay. | 00:35 |
| * alterego wonders what's messing with the scaling thing .. | 00:35 | |
| alterego | Okay, I think I get it :) | 00:36 |
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| nox- | powertop seems broken with kernel-power tho | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | up til & incl PR1.2 this was a intentional behaviour to service USB when hooked up to a host (wild guessing), in PR1.3 it sneaked over to charging state as well | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | it is | 00:38 |
| nox- | ok thx for confirming :) | 00:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=668661&postcount=936 (500MHz lock) | 00:48 |
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| khertan_ | Hi, someone have try http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.6/maemo5-textedit-texteditautoresizer-h.html ? | 00:59 |
| khertan_ | does the ensureVisible part is working for you ? | 01:00 |
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| alterego | Cripes, my head is spinning, didn't realise how big this project had become. | 01:01 |
| * alterego contemplates seperating some stuff into plugins or libs | 01:02 | |
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| opdf2 | somtimes my n900 makes a short beep noise when I reboot it, using reboot from power menu | 01:04 |
| opdf2 | what is that? | 01:04 |
| alterego | It's normal, don't worry about it. | 01:04 |
| alterego | I think it's supposed to happen everytime, but doesn't. | 01:04 |
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| opdf2 | I notice when it does do it, proximity sensor does not work from shortcutd | 01:05 |
| opdf2 | when it doesn't, proximity sensor works | 01:05 |
| alterego | I don't use shortcutd | 01:05 |
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| opdf2 | also, there are times when the Nokia handshake animation doesn't play during reboot | 01:06 |
| opdf2 | is that normal | 01:06 |
| alterego | Well, I rarely use reboot. | 01:07 |
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| alterego | I think the startup animation has always worked for me, but again, I wouldn't worry about it too much. | 01:07 |
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| opdf2 | alright, just wondering cause I'm using a fresh 1.3 + emmc reflash | 01:07 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: either way, that does not explain why not deeper than C1 states. | 01:13 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: And I put my finger that 500Mhz vs 250Mhz does not make a dime in power usage, C1 vs C4 will. | 01:13 |
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| ShadowJK | well, C4 is 0MHz :) | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 01:13 |
| ShadowJK | clocks off, voltage off | 01:13 |
| javispedro | probably musb craps itself with clocks off :) | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | possibly | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't explain why we need it for charging :-P | 01:15 |
| mgedmin | C4 is an explosive | 01:15 |
| javispedro | charging from dumb charger | 01:15 |
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| alterego | Probably a mistake in their "something is connected to my usb port" bit. | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 01:15 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I here think I prefer Matan's approach. The PR1.3 change is loosely explained, and I am yet to experience whatever it tried to fix. | 01:15 |
| alterego | Or maybe they sneakily put it in to push hen forward ;) | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | see pr1.3 changelog | 01:15 |
| alterego | Anyhow, bed time for me. | 01:16 |
| Nirtal | Hello! Does anyone knows how to use your computer as a bluetooth headset? | 01:16 |
| javispedro | cya alterego | 01:16 |
| alterego | See you all later folks. | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: sorry, didn't get it | 01:16 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: Matan suggested somewhere in tmo that future power kernel versions will have that exact PR1.3 change reverted | 01:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :nod: seems reasonable enough | 01:17 |
| nox- | javispedro, thats great news | 01:17 |
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| nox- | (and where is the 1.3 changelog?) | 01:17 |
| javispedro | grab kernel package for original, or search irc logs | 01:18 |
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| javispedro | either way, as I said, not much reasoning there. | 01:18 |
| nox- | hm ok | 01:18 |
| javispedro | so, if someone is capable of charging their N900 from a dumb charger now and pre-PR1.3 couldn't, I'd like to know. | 01:19 |
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| nox- | ah you mean this https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=h-e-n;a=commitdiff;h=a2abd51199b9e61542a24ae9086ac1c6263106c4#patch9 | 01:19 |
| nox- | right? | 01:19 |
| javispedro | yep | 01:19 |
| nox- | ok | 01:19 |
| nox- | ~bug 161191 | 01:19 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/161191 was not found. | 01:20 |
| javispedro | nox-: NB is the internal nokia bugzilla | 01:20 |
| nox- | oh ok | 01:20 |
| javispedro | nox-: your only hope for any disclosement of such information is file a bmo and cross fingers | 01:20 |
| nox- | :( | 01:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nox-: ack for 161191 | 01:24 |
| nox- | thx | 01:24 |
| nox- | do you know more details? | 01:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hell, how I hate that ambiguity in bug descriptions! Is "Rover does not differentiate charging downstream port from dedicated charger" what they implemented now (which would sound like a correct statement), or is it a descriptions of a bug (that's what the wording sounds like) which the tried to fix but actually messed it up completely? | 01:26 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: probably, that's the bug title. | 01:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | now if I were smart enough to spot the diff for that nb#161191 :-S | 01:29 |
| javispedro | chances are, it's just the musb changes | 01:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you know what *usually* happens to devels dumping patchsets of >4 unrelated diffs to the public? | 01:33 |
| javispedro | oh | 01:34 |
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| javispedro | discussed already the changes to the swap algorithm in pr1.3' | 01:34 |
| javispedro | ? | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, not afaik | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess that's ShadowJK's domain | 01:34 |
| nox- | btw fennec really seems to be swap-happy... | 01:35 |
| wmarone | fennec eats ram like candy | 01:35 |
| cehteh | still no official compcache for the n900 .. :/ | 01:35 |
| nox- | wmarone, :) | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | mmmmyummy, candy | 01:36 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: gaps_rbtree_insert, gaps_rbtree_add new symbols nowhere to be seen in upstream, seems to be part of a new scheme to allocate pages | 01:36 |
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| javispedro | possibly NB#166185 - swapping algorithm improvements & re-calibration | 01:38 |
| javispedro | somebody should test the uptime with pr1.3 kernel | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | somebody who actually suffers from that swap fragmentation | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | I got uptimes of >30 days with pr1.2 and no real problems | 01:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but then I usually have no swp-happy apps running | 01:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which would also explain why Nokia didn't realize there's a problem. Probably their testers' usage patterns were more like mine, and both are quite different to John User's | 01:42 |
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| javispedro | they tend to shutdown stuff from time to time. | 01:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that too | 01:42 |
| ShadowJK | Mine can be "open 30 browser windows, get distracted, open gpodder and watch some videos, pause video, switch to one of those browser windows, read it, close it, go back to video" | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | hi ShadowJK :-) | 01:43 |
| javispedro | talking about the devil =) | 01:43 |
| javispedro | ;) | 01:43 |
| ShadowJK | So I'm guessing they find/keeptrack largest gap of free pages in the swap area | 01:44 |
| ShadowJK | and fill that | 01:44 |
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| chrissbx | I wanted to rename stations in fmtuner. | 01:47 |
| chrissbx | Seems it just doesn't allow to do that from the gui; so I figured, let's check whether I can modify the file where it stores those. | 01:48 |
| javispedro | no file | 01:48 |
| javispedro | gconf. | 01:48 |
| chrissbx | Thing is, I just can't find any file that could contain them; grepping doesn't help. | 01:48 |
| chrissbx | hm | 01:48 |
| javispedro | chrissbx: you should grep ~/.gconf* | 01:48 |
| chrissbx | There's no .gconf | 01:48 |
| mgedmin | gconftool -R /|grep foo | 01:48 |
| mgedmin | only problem, you don't see which key you're in | 01:49 |
| mgedmin | gconftool -R / | less +/foo | 01:49 |
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| javispedro | /var/lib/gconf :P | 01:51 |
| chrissbx | Thanks mgedmin, that works | 01:51 |
| chrissbx | aha | 01:51 |
| javispedro | but if you edit the file you might need to kill gconfd- | 01:51 |
| javispedro | 2 | 01:51 |
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| chrissbx | yeah, I'll update using gconftool then. | 01:52 |
| chrissbx | (I wonder why they choose such a location?) | 01:52 |
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| javispedro | editing that with gconftool is a pita because there are two independent list iirc | 01:54 |
| johnx | chrissbx, cause that's the system provided defaults? (in /var/lib/gconf) | 01:54 |
| chrissbx | johnx: no, it stored my changes there. | 01:55 |
| chrissbx | So it's not just defaults. | 01:55 |
| johnx | huh | 01:55 |
| javispedro | johnx: read /etc/gconf/2/path lately ? ;) | 01:55 |
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| johnx | javispedro, I made an ASSumption that they'd do the same thing as debuntu | 01:56 |
| johnx | my mistake :) | 01:56 |
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| javispedro | and mine | 01:56 |
| chrissbx | Must either have been someone who thought having just one location to backup for "system" data would be nice (let the user care about files he knows about only); or maybe an intern that just enabled writing that location for users. | 01:57 |
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| johnx | my thoughts: concerns about read/write speeds of the emmc that /home is on, and/or concerns about writing to it too many times | 01:59 |
| johnx | and/or the famous "historical reasons" | 01:59 |
| javispedro | I think it's the latter. | 01:59 |
| chrissbx | historical reasons about what the intern did. | 01:59 |
| johnx | sounds about right | 01:59 |
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| johnx | whenever you see "osso-" the "historical reasons" explanation is almost always the right choice | 02:00 |
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| mgedmin | well, before they were historical reasons there must have been some original reasons, I suppose | 02:01 |
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| johnx | right, but the reasoning might have been for a totally different device | 02:01 |
| johnx | possibly as far back as the 770 | 02:02 |
| javispedro | /var/lib/gconf, /var/lib/install ... | 02:02 |
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| johnx | I'm thinking either backups or possibly some thought about being able to "restore to defaults" easily | 02:03 |
| johnx | also, though the Maemo/MeeGo team is *now* very adept at Linux, I'm not sure that every member of the original Maemo team actually came from a Linux background | 02:04 |
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| chrissbx | Yeah, I guess they wanted to avoid the user restoring home and breaking app configs with that. | 02:07 |
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| chrissbx | Or then maybe that was not the original historic reason, but at least it looks like a better reason. | 02:08 |
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| chrissbx | What are people mainly writing guis with for Maemo or MeeGo? | 02:14 |
| chrissbx | Like a tool for editing station keys, or a new gui for the fm tuner. | 02:15 |
| chrissbx | Python,Lua,C,Perl, Gtk I guess Hildon,.. | 02:15 |
| johnx | Qt is the way to go for Meego compatibility | 02:15 |
| johnx | (also, it seemed easier than gtk+ in my very limited experience) | 02:16 |
| chrissbx | Ah hm true hm. But isn't Hildon still used with Qt or something? | 02:16 |
| chrissbx | Like a common layer atop gtk/Qt? | 02:16 |
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| johnx | no, AFAIK | 02:16 |
| tybollt | there been a changelog posted for 3.1 yet | 02:16 |
| tybollt | 1.3, too | 02:16 |
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| johnx | there's instructions for doing the right thing in Qt to make the GUI fit in with Maemo/MeeGO | 02:17 |
| johnx | haven't looked yet | 02:17 |
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| chrissbx | I wonder if there's a Qt gui server, like for gtk. (Both to protect from the Qt license directing the license of your app, and to give memory separation (easier for some language frameworks)) | 02:24 |
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| johnx | there's a GUI server for gtk? | 02:25 |
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| johnx | (though gtk+ is LGPL ...) | 02:25 |
| chrissbx | gtk-server.org is it I think | 02:26 |
| johnx | also, qt is not LGPL I think | 02:26 |
| lpotter | qt is lgpl | 02:26 |
| johnx | augh. that should have read "now" | 02:26 |
| johnx | <- distracted typing | 02:27 |
| chrissbx | Hm ok so the license may not be a problem; but it may still be a good idea, actually the main plus point: never have to recompile anything. | 02:27 |
| johnx | eh? | 02:27 |
| johnx | I'm ... not sure how that would work | 02:27 |
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| johnx | also, qt and gtk are both shared libraries. They take advantage of shared memory, so they're only loaded once | 02:28 |
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| chrissbx | Depends on how the toolkit works, I've never programmed anything real with either gtk+ nor qt; | 02:28 |
| chrissbx | but for example wxwindows pretty much assumes you compile, it has many macros that need expansion; | 02:29 |
| chrissbx | so if you write your app in a scripting language, you want it to be backed by something that takes away the need for recompilation. | 02:29 |
| johnx | isn't that the interpreter? | 02:30 |
| johnx | I think I'm lost ... | 02:30 |
| johnx | I'm more sysadmin than programmer. use small words :) | 02:30 |
| chrissbx | With wx, you write a .c file which contains something like WX_START_OF_APP and WX_MAINLOOP etc. (I forgot the real names, long time ago); | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | gconftool -R -> /apps/osso/image-viewer: recent_types = [2.4475800000000002e-307,1.2552999999999999e-307,6.9660200000000004e-308,7.8062300000000002e-308] X-P | 02:31 |
| b-man` | O_o | 02:31 |
| chrissbx | those would expand to C code that does the right thing for setting up stuff, open the first window, create the main event loop etc. | 02:32 |
| johnx | 2.4475800000000002e-307 is by far my favorite image type | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | wonder if I could find my recent_types with an electron microscope | 02:32 |
| johnx | chrissbx, but that's for making your program toolkit agnostic | 02:32 |
| johnx | if you use Qt, I don't think that's really a problem ... | 02:33 |
| chrissbx | yes; my point is, if you want to use a scripting language, someone has to figure out how to enable changing how windows are setup etc without needing to compile C code | 02:33 |
| chrissbx | actually I guess that's solved for most scripting languages. | 02:33 |
| chrissbx | Well, my train of thought was: if I want to use Scheme to write my app, I'll have to deal with the C interface, which I'd like to avoid, | 02:34 |
| johnx | ah. no qt bindings for scheme? sad | 02:34 |
| chrissbx | because then I'll probably have to recompile the parts handling the ffi all the time, because blocking calls in C code usually blocks the vm of the language and hence user-space threading, | 02:35 |
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| chrissbx | and if I want to move on to say android then my work with that wouldn't be worth a dime. | 02:35 |
| chrissbx | So better abstract it away and then why not go cross process to something like gtk-server. | 02:36 |
| chrissbx | No blocking issues, clear separation. | 02:36 |
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| alterego | We've got loads of scripting languages that can work with maemo | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: interested in a bet? they to ""if (r == 1)... "" an are surprised why r = 1 doest yield true for ( r == 1 ) | 02:37 |
| alterego | You should check out qml :) | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | they Do* | 02:37 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, agh. what language am I looking at? | 02:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dunno, whatever is dealing with /apps/osso/image-viewer: recent_types | 02:38 |
| johnx | so probably C | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | lesson: never use real if you don't know why | 02:39 |
| johnx | I guess I would have made that mistake too, since I have no idea what you're talking about. OTOH, I haven't done C seriously in ~10 years | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2.4475800000000002e-307 != 0 | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I *guess* they meant to set /apps/osso/image-viewer: recent_types = [0,0,0] | 02:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but some gashead used reals for the recent_types vars | 02:41 |
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| johnx | aaaah, right. FP math. fun times | 02:43 |
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| johnx | I forgot the part where those were referred to as "real types" and instead all I could think of was the math definition of "real" | 02:44 |
| johnx | I was like, "Real? Instead of using imaginary types in C? HowTF does that work?" | 02:44 |
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| toresbe | "God is real, unless declared integer" | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd declare it boolean, bit ooops, no C | 02:52 |
| BCMM | toresbe: ah, a fellow FORTRAN nerd? | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | him? Thy? | 02:52 |
| toresbe | BCMM: Nah! Forth love if honk then! | 02:52 |
| BCMM | haha | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHAHAHA | 02:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | HONK | 02:53 |
| toresbe | Actually I mostly code C. But an interest in computing history has at least caused me to know about some of those languages. | 02:54 |
| BCMM | fortran isn't history | 02:54 |
| BCMM | anyway, i seem to recall the existance of a modified hildon desktop with keyboard shorcuts and so on, but can't remember how to find it | 02:54 |
| ScribbleJ | I guess Nokia no longer provides a "Desktop" version of the SDK image? | 02:55 |
| BCMM | also, anyone know if the keyboarding works right with catorise? | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I coded those: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4734779.html in a forth like language, in the early 80s | 02:56 |
| toresbe | BCMM: well, fortran being a dominant language (fortunately) is ;) | 02:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually mid-eighties | 02:56 |
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| BCMM | toresbe: try telling that to a physicist :-) | 02:57 |
| psycho_oreos | BCMM, how do you mean? | 02:57 |
| BCMM | psycho_oreos: wrt what? | 02:57 |
| psycho_oreos | <BCMM> also, anyone know if the keyboarding works right with catorise? <-- how do you mean by that? | 02:58 |
| * toresbe really needs to brush up on his CDC Cyber skills | 02:58 | |
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| johnx | toresbe, center for disease control? | 02:59 |
| toresbe | Control Data Corporation | 02:59 |
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| johnx | I forgot my <feigned naivete> tag :) | 03:00 |
| toresbe | http://static.cray-cyber.org/General/LARGE/Cy830.jpg | 03:00 |
| BCMM | psycho_oreos: iirc, there is a modified hildon-desktop floating around which features, amongst other things, kb shorcuts for using the app launcher | 03:00 |
| BCMM | psycho_oreos: i was wondering if sais | 03:00 |
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| BCMM | said | 03:01 |
| BCMM | shortcuts work with catorise | 03:01 |
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| psycho_oreos | BCMM, I'm using matan's modified hildon (enables 9 desktops) and the shortcut buttons for catorise I tried for the first time after you mentioned it seems to work with matan's modified hildon | 03:02 |
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| BCMM | psycho_oreos: thanks, where does one find it? | 03:03 |
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| psycho_oreos | BCMM, the shortcuts for catorise? I used trial-and-error.. it seems like the first few alphabetical keys (i.e, q, w, e, r, t, y) corresponds to the first row of icons under catorise | 03:04 |
| psycho_oreos | and to go back using keyboard with catorise is backspace | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Catorize shouldn't have anything to do with the shortcuts | 03:05 |
| psycho_oreos | I thought he meant keyboard shortcuts | 03:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | atorize is just an editor for desktop files, which get handled by applauncher anyway. There's been a menu in applauncher prior to PR1.2 ("More"). So you'd think MHD works with catorize as well, yes | 03:09 |
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| javispedro | ah, #maem | 03:11 |
| javispedro | if I try to read from xchat's red line I would get crazy | 03:11 |
| javispedro | a nice prospective from gtk-server.org, to floating point, to categorize... | 03:11 |
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| johnx | we're already crazy. you might as well join us :) | 03:12 |
| javispedro | hey, I'm crazy already too. | 03:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | xchat's red tab labels? *.* | 03:15 |
| javispedro | xchat's last-time-I-focused-the-window-I-was-here line. | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 03:16 |
| * ieatlint loves that line | 03:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer | the red tab labels give me eye cancer | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | even my TV refuses to display them | 03:17 |
| javispedro | what are you doing to your poor tv | 03:17 |
| javispedro | help: automatically spawns rm -rf / | 03:17 |
| javispedro | Reminds me of an old email I once got; forgot about the context but I remember some words from it... | 03:19 |
| javispedro | "There is no help. There is NO help." | 03:19 |
| ieatlint | sounds like open source | 03:19 |
| javispedro | some of it gets lost in translation, he was writing that like if it was the end of the world :) | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10054 | 03:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Let there be blood! | 03:20 |
| ieatlint | dear god... try changing the colour to something else then | 03:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Extra hour to use today and I'm still going to be up 'til 2. | 03:20 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: composite output at its best :) | 03:20 |
| johnx | mornin' GeneralAntilles | 03:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: duh, southern hemisphere? | 03:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: ...or what's that with the extra hour? | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah no. I *always* get confused with that stuff | 03:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stupid DST | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually now's northern hemisphere extra hour season | 03:25 |
| johnx | ~lart the inventor of daylight "savings" time | 03:25 |
| * infobot makes a balloon animal out of the inventor of daylight "savings" time | 03:25 | |
| javispedro | ps: not foundation fault | 03:25 |
| javispedro | / # /bin/sh: r | 03:25 |
| javispedro | sshd getting crazy | 03:25 |
| ebzzry | Hi! What is the dbus command for opening files with their default handlers? | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | errrhmhmhm | 03:27 |
| johnx | I wish we had xdg-open ... | 03:28 |
| * javispedro notes that writing hildon-mime-open app would be in the trivial realm | 03:28 | |
| * johnx can't be arsed to put much time into maemo when meego development is in full swing | 03:29 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ebzzry: you *might* try http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS#dbus-send-google and replace the ""URL"" with a real resouce locator string. Might work, aiui for some filetypes it does | 03:29 |
| ebzzry | DocScrutinizer: Let me check that. | 03:30 |
| jpinx-eeepc | is forwarding X over ssh the only way to get the n900 X session onto a remote box - or is there some other app that will do it easier? | 03:31 |
| johnx | jpinx-eeepc, like a vnc server? | 03:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | wasn't there this.... errr | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | vnc? | 03:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Applications that doesn't respect the usability paradigms of their host OS should be burned. | 03:32 |
| jpinx-eeepc | is vnc easier? | 03:32 |
| johnx | x11vnc specifically | 03:32 |
| johnx | pretty easy yeah | 03:32 |
| johnx | (or it should be) | 03:32 |
| jpinx-eeepc | I have been struggling trying to get X over ssh, but it's not playing nicely for me :( | 03:33 |
| johnx | yeah. I know that at least some maemo apps did (still do?) some stupid things that prevent them from being forwarded | 03:33 |
| jpinx-eeepc | yea : | 03:34 |
| * jpinx-eeepc looks into vnc | 03:34 | |
| johnx | so yeah. x11vnc basically lets you see the whole desktop remotely, but it should be slower than actual X11 forwarding | 03:34 |
| johnx | it's a tradeoff *shrugs* | 03:34 |
| jpinx-eeepc | slow is not an issue | 03:34 |
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| * jpinx-eeepc waits while HAL updates and allws me to do something,.. | 03:35 | |
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| ebzzry | DocScrutinizer: osso_browser? Does Maemo use the browser to handle everything, like in the file manager? | 03:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ebzzry: I'm wild guessing and have no real clue | 03:38 |
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| ham5 | gconftool-2 --set "/system/osso/dsm/locks/devicelock_autolock_timeout" --type int 150 | 03:43 |
| ham5 | if tried killing gconf first, setting the xml file readonly, after each reboot it always returns back to 60 | 03:43 |
| ham5 | what do I do, this is new to 1.3, before I could just edit the xml and be done | 03:43 |
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| ebzzry | Is this channel logged? If yes, where? | 03:44 |
| ham5 | look at topic ebzzry | 03:44 |
| johnx | listed in the topic | 03:44 |
| ebzzry | Argh! Sorry. My bad. | 03:45 |
| johnx | no worries :) | 03:46 |
| jpinx-eeepc | johnx: vnc works - thanks - a bit clunky, but easy indeed :) | 03:47 |
| johnx | glad to hear it | 03:48 |
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| johnx | yeah. clunky is the word | 03:48 |
| johnx | so, what's the goal of all this? or just for fun? | 03:48 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | bigger keyboard and screen for a start ;) | 03:48 |
| johnx | also, semi-related. has anyone managed to make the N900 show the mouse cursor? | 03:49 |
| jpinx-eeepc | Hmm -- tightvncviewwer doesn't appear to support cop-n-paste - which is a pity.. | 03:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | johnx: I think I heard of that, yes | 03:51 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | cool - I can dial calls over vnc - and put the speaker phone on ;) | 03:51 |
| johnx | x2vnc might be a lot of fun then | 03:51 |
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| johnx | synergy would be best, but would require repackaging | 03:51 |
| jpinx-eeepc | johnx: on breaking and reconnecting I get this-- root@Nokia-N900:~# channel 3: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused | 03:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, nothin'll get your blood pressure up like IT. | 03:54 |
| johnx | IIRC, there's a switch to add to x11vnc to make it persist | 03:54 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, then maybe IT isn't for you :) or you need to work on maintaining your Xen | 03:55 |
| johnx | or your boss constantly breaks things | 03:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The more I use technology, the more I hate it. | 03:57 |
| johnx | yeah, if I was your career advisor, I'd say "Maybe you should consider other fields besides IT" | 03:58 |
| johnx | I mean, if you end up stressed over dealing with it, don't do it unless you need to | 03:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles1 | johnx, not in it, thank goodness. | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | Just dealing with it at the moment. | 04:07 |
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| johnx | well, I'm bored, so ping me if you want to bounce ideas off me | 04:08 |
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| ebzzry | Gah, the author of kernel-power hasn't been on IRC for quite some time. | 04:19 |
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| Termana | good morning | 04:22 |
| johnx | mornin' Termana | 04:22 |
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| ebzzry | I hope kernel-power will soon be updated with hostmode. | 04:28 |
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| Macer | you know.. i just thought about it.. and realistically other than a new ui maemo is done lol | 04:28 |
| Macer | doesn't maemo just use xorg? | 04:28 |
| b-man` | yes | 04:29 |
| Macer | i am curious as to why someone cant just make a new ui with the umderlying base | 04:29 |
| Macer | under | 04:29 |
| Macer | the base is great | 04:29 |
| johnx | errr...kinda | 04:30 |
| Macer | a ui upgrade is all it would really need | 04:30 |
| Macer | better than most port linux distros | 04:30 |
| johnx | that's not saying much | 04:30 |
| ShadowJK | But I like the UI | 04:30 |
| johnx | the kernel support is good | 04:30 |
| ShadowJK | the UI change is the biggest thing that scares me about harmattan/meego | 04:31 |
| johnx | the actual 'distro' stuff is kinda ... iffy | 04:31 |
| ShadowJK | that and the new restrictions | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen t-tan | 04:31 |
| infobot | t-tan <~tanner@e179094244.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 149d 6h 50m 50s ago, saying: 'smoking hot device?'. | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen titan | 04:31 |
| infobot | titan <~zero@pdpc/supporter/student/titan> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 212d 16h 45m 12s ago, saying: 'extra ips on the default interface'. | 04:31 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: well. i still wouldnt mind a profile "desktop" ;) | 04:32 |
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| Macer | or a liq based rotating gles one | 04:32 |
| ebzzry | DocScrutinizer: =( | 04:32 |
| Macer | would be awesome to have a 3D based wm | 04:32 |
| Termana | Macer, could just port MeeGo Handset UI, I suppose | 04:32 |
| Termana | if that's your "thing" | 04:32 |
| Macer | Termana: that is what i was wondering | 04:33 |
| Macer | why cant someone just backport the meego ui? | 04:33 |
| Macer | then all the hw would work | 04:33 |
| Macer | and you get the new phone based ui | 04:33 |
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| Macer | as well as all the maemo apps | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: full ack | 04:33 |
| b-man` | MeeGo UI on top of debian perhaps? ;) | 04:33 |
| Macer | not really debian | 04:34 |
| Macer | maemo is fine as a base | 04:34 |
| b-man` | it's a subset | 04:34 |
| ShadowJK | Macer, I think you've got it backwards | 04:34 |
| Macer | works great on the n900 | 04:34 |
| Macer | how so? | 04:34 |
| ShadowJK | Maemo base is pretty crap | 04:34 |
| ShadowJK | Maemo UI is quite superb | 04:34 |
| johnx | Macer, you only think maemo is fine as a base because you haven't been chin deep in it ... | 04:34 |
| johnx | ShadowJK++ | 04:34 |
| Macer | johnx: i suppose ;) | 04:35 |
| Termana | I wouldn't mind hildon-desktop being ported and packaged for Debian | 04:35 |
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| ShadowJK | What MeeGo is doing is making the base OK, and allegedly dumbing down the UI | 04:35 |
| johnx | Termana, been there. tried that | 04:35 |
| Termana | johnx, ugly? | 04:35 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: but all the n900 he doesnt work yet | 04:35 |
| johnx | Termana, it was called Mer | 04:35 |
| Termana | Not the look itself obviously | 04:35 |
| Macer | :( | 04:35 |
| b-man` | btw, i doubt you guys would be interested in this, but it looks like some people who were hoping to hack flash player from webos will be running into quite a wall based on the observations i've made: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=866454&postcount=4 | 04:35 |
| Termana | johnx, ah right ;) | 04:35 |
| ShadowJK | Macer, are you refering to meego hacker's edition? | 04:36 |
| Termana | b-man`, why not just get the flash player plugin from TI? (If they are still allowing people to grab it) | 04:36 |
| ShadowJK | They aren't | 04:37 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: yes | 04:37 |
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| b-man` | Termana: they kinda stoped distributing it after what has happened lately :P | 04:37 |
| Macer | n900 is not directly supported | 04:37 |
| Macer | too bad | 04:37 |
| ShadowJK | They closed it pretty much same day they realized end-users were grabbing it | 04:37 |
| nox- | how about android's flash, could that be used? | 04:37 |
| Macer | i wouldnt mind using it if all the hw worked | 04:37 |
| Termana | b-man`, meh. I'm more of a HTML5 person anyway | 04:37 |
| Termana | :p | 04:37 |
| b-man` | nox-: Android's flashplayer is built agenst a non-standard libc | 04:37 |
| nox- | :( | 04:38 |
| b-man` | Termana: meh ;) | 04:38 |
| ShadowJK | Macer, so you're saying that because MeeGo isn't finished yet, someone should start a new UI ontop of Maemo. So then you'd have MeeGo UI at progress 75% and Maemo new-UI at progress 0%, except that MeeGo has more people working on it. :-) | 04:38 |
| Macer | maemos flash works fine with the fake out reporter | 04:38 |
| johnx | best thing apple ever did was kick adobe's flash strategy between the legs | 04:38 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: well. not really | 04:38 |
| nox- | johnx, true | 04:39 |
| Macer | i just don't think meego will ever work 100% | 04:39 |
| Macer | with the hw | 04:39 |
| johnx | ... and the best thing adobe ever did was point out the apple walled garden situation with lots of advertising $$$ | 04:39 |
| Macer | i know maemo does ;) | 04:39 |
| johnx | win-win for open source all around :D | 04:39 |
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| Termana | Macer, it will, most likely, eventually. | 04:40 |
| b-man` | sometimes it bugs me that 80% of the web relies on a closed binary that is controlled by one entity :P | 04:40 |
| ShadowJK | It would be cool to port the Maemo4 UI back to Maemo5, but it's probably alot of effort to resurrect all the killed code :-) | 04:40 |
| johnx | Macer, comparing meego to the past maemo backport / HE efforts is apples and oranges. the amount of resources the meego-on-n900 team is at a different level than in the past | 04:40 |
| nox- | b-man`, not only that, its full of secuirity problems too... :( | 04:40 |
| nox- | -i | 04:40 |
| Macer | johnx: more or less? | 04:41 |
| johnx | Macer, tons more :) | 04:41 |
| Termana | ShadowJK, Debian is packaging it, so I suppose not ;) | 04:41 |
| johnx | and a mandate to meet as well, not just a "do your best" | 04:41 |
| ShadowJK | johnx, it's pretty confusing afaict. There's like MeeGo, MeeGo-harmattan, and MeeGo HE for N900, which is MeeGo-harmattan port to n900... | 04:41 |
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| Macer | ShadowJK: so utter dev confusion again? :) | 04:42 |
| Termana | ShadowJK, it really isn't THAT confusing. | 04:42 |
| ShadowJK | and the MeeGo-proper and MeeGo-harmattan variants don't have ABI compatibility :D | 04:42 |
| johnx | but the mainline meego-for-n900 is the one to care about. it's a step ahead of the curve rather than behind it | 04:42 |
| ShadowJK | right | 04:42 |
| johnx | being behind the curve has been one of the big problems in the past | 04:42 |
| ShadowJK | Macer, it's Nokia not adopting full MeeGo yet | 04:42 |
| Termana | ShadowJK, actually your statement about ABI compatibility isn't true | 04:42 |
| johnx | same reason why linux-for-$(some-winmo-device) always ends up half assed and forgotten before it's finished | 04:42 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: sounds like the same cycle ;) | 04:42 |
| Termana | ShadowJK, as long as 1.2 gets hardfp, it will be ABI compatible | 04:42 |
| ShadowJK | Oh? I thought one was hardfp abi and the other was softfp abi.. | 04:43 |
| ShadowJK | righ | 04:43 |
| ShadowJK | t | 04:43 |
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| Macer | maybe nokia will just release all the hw code and open it next month and let everytging take off | 04:44 |
| Macer | :) | 04:44 |
| Macer | living the dream | 04:44 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not sure they have much to open | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, for now I can't see meego getting so incredibly much saner or better or whatnot than maemo | 04:45 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, luckily we don't have to take it on faith | 04:45 |
| johnx | in the mobile world however, it does seem to be the best option for people who actually care about having a phone running a (mostly) open unix-like OS | 04:46 |
| ShadowJK | I guess there's really just one Nokia component in N900, the modem, the kernel phonet drivers are open source, and oFono is (I think?) open source.. | 04:47 |
| Termana | Macer, the only bits that are closed is 5 userspace parts, SGX blobs, wifi firmware, bluetooth firmware, pulseaudio speaker protection (open work around being worked on) and the modem firmware | 04:47 |
| Termana | (modem firmware isn't userspace though) | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | the promised support from Nokia (at least for N900) doesn'z happen fo rmeego as it never happened for maemo | 04:47 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, what do you mean by support? | 04:48 |
| Termana | ShadowJK, ofono is open source | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ISI, bme, wait till I recall more | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | lystii | 04:48 |
| Termana | ah right, BME was the one I forgot | 04:48 |
| Termana | but anyway | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | wifi | 04:49 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, uhm. those *are* supported in meego for N900 | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | termana got some more :-P | 04:49 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, so what's not supported in MeeGo for N900 that isn't on the TODO list? | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | HTF should I know about any friggin todo list?? | 04:50 |
| johnx | so you're complaining that meego for N900 isn't finished yet? or what? | 04:50 |
| Termana | There isn't an actual to-do list, johnx was merely insinuating a hypothetical to-do list | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | fact is meego is using a fuckedup lis302 gmeter driver, a crippled lP5523 driver, NO bq24150 driver... | 04:51 |
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| ShadowJK | and no bq27200 driver? :P | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 04:51 |
| ShadowJK | just continuing the binary blob practice | 04:51 |
| ShadowJK | for things that already exist as drivers in mainline linux kernel ;p | 04:52 |
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| raster | moo | 04:53 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: boop | 04:53 |
| nox- | .oO(i guess that happens when you submit multiple unrelated patches in one drop...) | 04:53 |
| Termana | morning raster | 04:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | nota bene lis302 driver in maemo is FOSS and magnitudes better than the lis3lv02 driver meego is using "because that's the upstream one" - alas that upstream one seems has been developed for WII | 04:54 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, not supported != I don't like the implementation | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | lo raster | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: so what? does that make meego any better? | 04:55 |
| raster | Termana: beep | 04:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | does that prove Nokia's extensive support for N900-meego? | 04:55 |
| wmarone | if the maemo one is FOSS and better, why hasn't anyone pushed the improvements? | 04:56 |
| johnx | wmarone, because people complain in IRC rather than improve things | 04:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: I'm at least complaining - others do nothing. I *checked* both sources side by side | 04:57 |
| raster | supported isnt black and white | 04:57 |
| raster | its a scale | 04:57 |
| raster | it has many levels of gray | 04:57 |
| raster | :) | 04:57 |
| johnx | I'll agree with raster | 04:57 |
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| raster | if u fixed 1 bug ever in a 5 year lifetiem of a product | 04:57 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, so maybe we're just arguing semantics here | 04:58 |
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| raster | and that was all it took to say "its supported"... i doubt anyone would agree with that evaluation | 04:58 |
| raster | for example | 04:58 |
| raster | the question is.. is the quality/level of support "acceptable" to someone | 04:59 |
| raster | everyone will draw a different line | 04:59 |
| raster | likely consumers/users will demand much more than the provider/company is willing to do | 04:59 |
| raster | so there will almost always be a gap | 04:59 |
| johnx | wow, well thanks for ruining a perfectly good internet argument with your rationality | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: consumer wants working battery charging. Nokia isn't willing to open up the specs and instead is thinking evil tricks how to argue for keeping battery management closed | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | THAT is Nokia support | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | for meego | 05:01 |
| wmarone | so point it out on the mailing list | 05:01 |
| raster | johnx: hahhahaha | 05:01 |
| nox- | maybe they're afraid of lawsuits? | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | wmarone: wtf? do you think that fact is unknown? | 05:01 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: you have a valid point | 05:01 |
| * GeneralAntilles gets a bowl of ice cream before diving into mwkn. | 05:01 | |
| wmarone | DocScrutinizer: if it's such a critical issue then why let it sit silent | 05:01 |
| wmarone | known but ignored isn't good | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | wmarone: I never let it silent. I just gave up on it | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | wmarone: you *might* have heard of jrbme.garage.maemo.org | 05:02 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, if we have our own solutions for charging outside of BME, does it really matter if Nokia does anything about it? | 05:03 |
| raster | the only things i see that should not be open are | 05:03 |
| raster | 1. things nokia dont own copyright too and thus cant control | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: almost not really anymore | 05:03 |
| raster | 2. things that dont run in the os (eg firmware on the wifi chip cpu, or on the modem cpu etc.) <- nice if they were open, but not needed | 05:04 |
| raster | 3. highest level apps, if nokia want to keep their product look to themselves - make their own contact app, launcher, whatever closed and their own | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: for 1) they need to find a way to cope with it. I asked for specs, and they for sure own he specs of their devices and batteries | 05:05 |
| raster | but keep the middleware, drivers, base, services and core display system open | 05:05 |
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| raster | DocScrutinizer: #1 is intended to cover things like sgx opengl libs | 05:05 |
| raster | nothing nokia can do about license there. imgtec is in charge | 05:06 |
| nox- | i wonder if nokia is afraid of malware causing battery `explosions' or something like that... | 05:06 |
| Termana | raster, which is basically the case, besides the exception of PulseAudio speaker protection and BME | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: whatever they are afraid of, it's mere nonsense | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's their utter incompetence | 05:06 |
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| raster | Termana: battery driver as best i know | 05:06 |
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| raster | as well | 05:07 |
| Termana | raster, the kernel driver is open, BME isn't though | 05:07 |
| raster | thats just the userspace part of the driver | 05:07 |
| raster | :) | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: nope | 05:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there *is no* kernel part | 05:07 |
| raster | (much like gl - kernel part vs userspace component). | 05:07 |
| nox- | DocScrutinizer, yeah but if they could end up being sued in america etc? | 05:08 |
| Termana | raster, no, the userspace and kernel driver is independent in BME's case | 05:08 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: well kernel part has to at least be an i2c line or some mmeaped region made available to userspace. | 05:08 |
| raster | it may simply be recycling an existing syscall :) | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: sorry I'm not going thru the last year's debate all again | 05:08 |
| nox- | ok :) | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: all moot points | 05:08 |
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| * nox- was just wondering about their reasons anyway | 05:09 | |
| DocScrutinizer | and that's the whole bottom line I will share on this | 05:09 |
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| raster | i suspect it'd either be that its a fear of exploding batterties + begin sued | 05:09 |
| nox- | (last year i wasnt here :) | 05:09 |
| raster | and anything that may make it easier to make that happen engenders major fear | 05:09 |
| raster | i guess | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | their reasons: IP in bme, we have no competence inhouse to even sort that out, we have no manpower to even look at it | 05:10 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: there is no kernel part that deals with charging - it's BME talking directly over I2C | 05:10 |
| raster | either that or nokia do indeed not own something somewhere and they cant release as owner of ip wont let it out | 05:10 |
| raster | SpeedEvil: still need to talk to kernel to talk i2c :) | 05:10 |
| raster | thats just a generic kernel driver tho | 05:10 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: Any malware can simply kill BME, and set battery charge voltage to 4.3V | 05:10 |
| SpeedEvil | (that's the hardware limit) | 05:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's highly questionable if that would cause explosions, even one in a few thousand batteries you do it to. | 05:11 |
| javispedro | b-man`: and what you think I'm doing atm | 05:11 |
| nox- | SpeedEvil, ok | 05:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that's the whole point. bme is bullshit. the hardware is fine. the specs are no 3rd party IP. Nokia were stupid if they'd believe there's any danger in helping with FOSS charging | 05:12 |
| raster | SpeedEvil: what does an d doesnt happen isnt the issue... it's the FEAR of it happening | 05:12 |
| b-man` | javispedro: ? | 05:12 |
| raster | even 1 in 10,000 | 05:12 |
| javispedro | b-man`: a fbdev -> x11 wrapper =) | 05:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 05:12 |
| raster | if it blows up while in luggage on a plane | 05:12 |
| b-man` | javispedro: ah :) | 05:13 |
| raster | and plpane has a fire, plunges into the ocean... | 05:13 |
| SpeedEvil | But the right way to deal with this is a driver in kernel that enforces the 4.3 limit | 05:13 |
| raster | nokia would have some mucho bad PR | 05:13 |
| raster | if they figure out it was an exploding nokia n900 which had some hacked up drivers based on their5 src for the battery charging logic | 05:13 |
| raster | anyway | 05:13 |
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| raster | they may or may not even get sued | 05:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | raster: BS, how do you | 05:13 |
| raster | i dont know if it would happen or someone would win | 05:14 |
| raster | but.. nokia are afraid of it | 05:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | *charge* battery in luggage of plane?? | 05:14 |
| raster | its a fear | 05:14 |
| javispedro | .oO("I am at least complaining, others do nothing" goes into javispedro's quote book) | 05:14 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: leave plugged into laptop to charge. keep laptop on | 05:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | haha | 05:14 |
| raster | dont pick nits :) | 05:14 |
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| raster | my point is that even 1 in 10,000 | 05:14 |
| raster | or 1 in 100,000 case | 05:14 |
| raster | can turn into a massive pr disaster | 05:15 |
| raster | were it to happen | 05:15 |
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| raster | and they are afraid | 05:15 |
| raster | now if that fear is really justified is another matter | 05:15 |
| raster | how likely is it? | 05:15 |
| GAN900 | Well, now we've got a lot of burnt out hackers. | 05:15 |
| raster | shouldnt they simply make sure that software cannot do any such thing? | 05:15 |
| GAN900 | So, too bad Nokia. | 05:15 |
| raster | ie hardware enforces safety checks | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: what if the 500 7' nails in your luggage pierce the cell? this probably will cause a fire. Charging definitely won't | 05:15 |
| raster | maybe thats an issue for a future device | 05:15 |
| johnx | it's nice and easy to characterize "Nokia" as a monolithic entity with singular motivations, but the reality is probably that the programmers and possibly even *everyone* on the Maemo/MeeGo team want to open source the BME code and just can't get it past the legal department | 05:15 |
| javispedro | btw DocScrutinizer, if you get jrbme into usable state go tell Stallman; there was a page where he or one of his minions said that "the common joke is that you cannot charge the 'open' n900 with free software" :) | 05:16 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: ahahha | 05:16 |
| raster | :) | 05:16 |
| raster | johnx: thats very likely | 05:16 |
| GAN900 | johnx, doesn't make me more inclined to give the monolith my time or money these days. | 05:16 |
| raster | johnx: i have had to wrestle with similar crap | 05:16 |
| raster | where i firmly believe it to be a gpl violation | 05:16 |
| raster | legal dept disagrees | 05:16 |
| johnx | raster, so have I. and my company is made up of like 100 people total | 05:17 |
| raster | and the other division that owns the code refuses to release it even to another internal division | 05:17 |
| johnx | I can't even imagine how insane it is in a big corp | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: no "haha" - if user does bad to a Nokia device, no matter nails or a software, how can nokia say they want to try and stop that? | 05:17 |
| raster | and some 3rd divison has a requirements list REQUIRING that feature or no product ships | 05:17 |
| raster | etc. | 05:17 |
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| nox- | that reminds me of... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/14/nokia_dilbert/ | 05:17 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: if nokia provided the source my bet is that nokia's legal dept looks at it as a "we provided the tools to do it and made it easy - therefor legally we bear at least some responsibility" | 05:18 |
| raster | dont think like an eningeer | 05:18 |
| raster | think like a lawyer | 05:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer: you're not going to win this discussion. | 05:18 |
| johnx | GAN900, fair enough. I got burnt out for a while and took a "holiday" from it for most of a year. I came back refreshed and with some perspectives that I didn't have before. | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: if they DO NOT share the specs how to treat their battery properly, they bear much more of a part of the fault if jrbme would ever go boom | 05:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer: that's not lawyer thinking. | 05:19 |
| raster | johnx: its nuts in a big company. when u have a few hundred thousand people... :) | 05:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you screw around with shit that has warnings on it, it's your own damn fault when it blows up. | 05:19 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: in a legal sense i'd say they wouldnt | 05:20 |
| johnx | raster, I don't even want to think about it ... ugh | 05:20 |
| raster | from an engineers pov - yes | 05:20 |
| raster | but from the legal side.. i'd say no. | 05:20 |
| javispedro | going on a lawyer kill spree. wanna join? | 05:20 |
| johnx | in fact, the lawyers probably consider keeping it closed source as some sort of "anti-tampering due diligence" | 05:20 |
| raster | GeneralAntilles: well not just warnings - when nokia actively makes it difficult and requires you go to great lengths to reverse-enigneer | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | publishing specs can not create any legal fault. Otherwise they mustn't open up *any* part of their firmware | 05:21 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: You have to consider why they added the "lock" feature into the fmtx kernel driver | 05:21 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: its risk evaluation | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even publish voltage of their batteries, as that makes it easier to build clones | 05:21 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, but doing that costs money. | 05:21 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: only reason is ... lawyer told them to. | 05:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer: there are a lot of stupid people in this world. | 05:21 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: what is the likelihood of it going wrong | 05:21 |
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| raster | what is the possible financial consequence | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: exactly, and Nokia is too incompetent to do that risk evaluation properly | 05:22 |
| raster | financial consequence of the blown up plane could cost 100's of millions of $ | 05:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as they have NFC what's the likelihood of something going wrong with charging | 05:22 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, exactly my point. but in this case "Nokia" means "middle to upper management" not "the Maemo/MeeGo devs" | 05:22 |
| nox- | phb's :) | 05:23 |
| raster | financial consequence of a device not being able to boot an needing to "fix it" - much less. | 05:23 |
| johnx | so *those* are the people you need to convince, not the people hanging out here on IRC or in the mailing lists | 05:23 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: but.. in this case | 05:23 |
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| raster | it's nokia's risk | 05:23 |
| raster | they evaluate their risk | 05:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sadly none of the people who need convincing are ever available. | 05:23 |
| raster | its their arses on the line | 05:23 |
| * javispedro imagines few managementeria also understand why they should spend money into opening specs and/or doing proper risk evaluation when closing stuff is so easy and cheap | 05:23 | |
| raster | not yours | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what a fuckedup management is there to make butchers decide about risk of a space travel, without asking their rocket engineer neighbours? | 05:24 |
| raster | your chocie could be to simply not buy nokia products | 05:24 |
| raster | as you believe their dont give you the freedom you want from your products | 05:24 |
| johnx | javispedro, and when it's the thing they've been doing for years. it's not just cheap, it's well understood. which is possibly even more important | 05:24 |
| raster | their risk evaluations are not in line with your expectations | 05:24 |
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| johnx | raster, there you go again with your logic. :P | 05:25 |
| raster | hahaha | 05:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's depressing that there still isn't a better alternative to Nokia. | 05:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Which means we'll just keep coming back for more abuse again and again. | 05:26 |
| nox- | bbl | 05:27 |
| raster | GeneralAntilles: alternative for what? | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: nonsense, my expectations are just "Nokia doesn't support meego" - and I'm not arguing here to convince anybody in charge to decide, I just want to prove that point, as there's NO SUPPORT of Nokia the way they once promised would come from them | 05:27 |
| hatake_kakashi | name your poison | 05:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | A mobile Linux platform that doesn't suck and isn't inherently evil. | 05:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | (completely suck) | 05:27 |
| javispedro | well... platform... | 05:27 |
| javispedro | I'd think Meego has the platform part covered. | 05:27 |
| raster | GeneralAntilles: aaaah. so basically u dont like android? | 05:27 |
| javispedro | now, the devices part.. | 05:28 |
| raster | javispedro: qt. meh. | 05:28 |
| raster | :) | 05:28 |
| raster | (totally personal opinion) | 05:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | raster: Google's business is based in advertising. | 05:28 |
| raster | GeneralAntilles: i know :) | 05:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which means they're interested in prying into your information | 05:28 |
| raster | GeneralAntilles: i'll just suggest you wait and save your pennies then. | 05:28 |
| javispedro | raster: as long as they keep x11, I'm happy | 05:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | and means that their motivations are more soiled than most. | 05:28 |
| * javispedro boos at wayland. | 05:28 | |
| raster | GeneralAntilles: where are u? us? europe? | 05:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | US | 05:28 |
| raster | hmm | 05:29 |
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| raster | ok. lets see then :) | 05:29 |
| raster | GeneralAntilles: but... what iw as getting at is.. u dont like android.. right? | 05:29 |
| raster | u want something regular-linux like | 05:29 |
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| raster | glibc, dbus, x11, wm;s, composite mnagers, toolkits, c/c++ or whatevrr lang as long as u can compile it (and if u support c/c++ thats a no-brainer) | 05:30 |
| raster | ? | 05:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Google is fundamentally incompatible with me. | 05:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | There's no alternative to Maemo/MeeGo that is both usable and non-evil. | 05:30 |
| raster | none that.. you know of... yet :) | 05:31 |
| wmarone | wait, raster was it you I was talking to the other day in #meego? | 05:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: GeneralAntilles is a kbd-lover afaik | 05:31 |
| raster | as for alternatives.. oh they do exist. much more usable than maemo or meego at this stage. | 05:31 |
| hatake_kakashi | in other words you know of another one but you're not willing to share it with GeneralAntilles, raster? | 05:31 |
| raster | and gasp... at least slated to all be open. | 05:31 |
| raster | just haasnt gotten its public announce yet. i'm just strategically leaking :) | 05:32 |
| b-man` | raster: webos? | 05:32 |
| javispedro | Vaporphone 3.4? | 05:32 |
| raster | b-man`: not "regular linux" | 05:32 |
| raster | its in the "hey lets just create out own ui system" camp | 05:32 |
| javispedro | it's nearly the nearest to "regular linux" I know from all other phone platforms | 05:32 |
| hatake_kakashi | I thought webos was getting cannibalised | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | raster: not more super-expensive niche crap from those Hildon guys is it? | 05:32 |
| raster | holdon guys? | 05:33 |
| raster | hildon? | 05:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | What the hell was the name of that thing? | 05:33 |
| javispedro | Houldron guys! | 05:33 |
| javispedro | raster: awww, c'mon, name any platform, we want to flame! | 05:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody must remember that $800 netbook that those ex-Nokia guys developed last year. | 05:33 |
| raster | hehe | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | the platform is easy to tell: Samsung | 05:34 |
| * javispedro falls off the chair | 05:34 | |
| raster | javispedro: i'm here in korea. seoul. samsung. i am a principal eningeerin in the mobile platform group. | 05:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bada bing, bada boom! | 05:34 |
| raster | we have our own linux os | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | NNNOOOOO | 05:34 |
| raster | not bada | 05:34 |
| raster | bada != linux | 05:34 |
| b-man` | rofl | 05:35 |
| raster | totally different group | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | bada is just a hickup </quote raster> | 05:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | yetanothermobilelinux | 05:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | is exactly what we need. | 05:35 |
| raster | its actually debian | 05:35 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: well, you asked for it! | 05:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro: evidently. | 05:35 |
| javispedro | either way... | 05:35 |
| javispedro | raster: non-existant phone platforms are not enough! cannot flame!!!! | 05:36 |
| Termana | raster, completely open you say? | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia demonstrated fairly well why just ripping a desktop distro straight isn't a good plan for mobile usage. | 05:36 |
| raster | and yes - when meego requires that the platform iq qt based, you do need another mobile linux | 05:36 |
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| raster | Termana: yes. | 05:36 |
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| Termana | raster, so an N900 port would be possible | 05:36 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, not really. they mostly demonstrated how to take the worst of both worlds | 05:36 |
| raster | Termana: only stuff that we cant control (3rd party software like imgtec opengles libs) is closed | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, well, yeah. | 05:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Termana: no, as we lack specs for N900 | 05:36 |
| raster | Termana: sure. if you want to do that | 05:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx: Deblet demonstrated, then. :P | 05:37 |
| raster | tho frankly... our hw is better :) | 05:37 |
| Termana | raster, ;) | 05:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | raster: I'd sure as hell hope so. | 05:37 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, I think the lesson there was how much of a PITA it is to maintain a de-facto distro fork even if you try to minimize differences | 05:37 |
| raster | if nokia release some omap4 thing.. then nokia will have an upper hand | 05:37 |
| raster | but until then... | 05:37 |
| raster | :) | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: that would really be a sad case if 2 years later the hw wouldn't be better | 05:38 |
| raster | also the gl drivers we have are signficantly better | 05:38 |
| raster | so compositing and rendering is so much smoother:) | 05:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | raster: good for you, get back to us when it's actually a "thing". | 05:38 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: well not 2 years. n900 came out end of last year | 05:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Using tech from early 2009. | 05:39 |
| raster | as such our hw is already out - galaxy-s sclass is what we are playing with | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | with quite some delay I'd hope Samsung was able to avoid | 05:39 |
| raster | like any large company we of course have better in-house prototypes | 05:39 |
| raster | but production-level hw is galax-ys grade | 05:39 |
| raster | and that does run rings around the n900 | 05:39 |
| raster | anyway - nokia decided to totally change mobile os strategy | 05:40 |
| raster | we were moving towards maemo long ago | 05:40 |
| raster | to help reduce massive differences in os base | 05:40 |
| raster | but we're not moving ot meego | 05:40 |
| raster | yet another pkg format change | 05:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 05:41 |
| raster | and its "qt all the way" then which frankly isnt going to work for us. | 05:41 |
| raster | so nokia has kind of made joining in the meego stuff an impossibility for us | 05:41 |
| raster | either way - we are involved with linaro | 05:41 |
| raster | which is much more our style | 05:41 |
| javispedro | but Linaro is nothing | 05:42 |
| javispedro | not to mention that their fathers tend to also love Qt... | 05:42 |
| raster | its just ubuntu for arm | 05:42 |
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| raster | ? | 05:42 |
| raster | fathers? | 05:42 |
| javispedro | Canonical | 05:42 |
| javispedro | Shuttlework | 05:42 |
| javispedro | etc. | 05:42 |
| raster | love qt? | 05:42 |
| raster | news to me | 05:42 |
| javispedro | err.. *Shuttleworth. | 05:43 |
| * DocScrutinizer burps | 05:43 | |
| hatake_kakashi | <GeneralAntilles> What the hell was the name of that thing? <--- Aava mobile? :) | 05:43 |
| javispedro | raster: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/14/1245204 | 05:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | hatake_kakashi: way before that. | 05:43 |
| hatake_kakashi | GeneralAntilles, nfi | 05:43 |
| raster | ja 2008... qt based gnome? ahhahaha | 05:44 |
| Termana | raster, no thumb2 I hope | 05:44 |
| raster | ands... since july 2008... how much of that has happened? | 05:44 |
| raster | that is an off the wall quote based on no reality there :) (by mark) | 05:44 |
| javispedro | nothing, but he keeps talking about it | 05:44 |
| raster | not too often | 05:45 |
| javispedro | http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2010/10/20/ubuntu-and-qt/ | 05:45 |
| javispedro | aah | 05:49 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: suddently I remembered about a "hildon laptop". but wasn't that just for the fun? I do not remember they wanted to sell it. | 05:49 |
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| javispedro | *suddenly. | 05:49 |
| raster | the same thing as asking the kernel guys to rewrite the kernel in c++ :) | 05:50 |
| raster | not going to happen | 05:50 |
| raster | :) | 05:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro: I recall it being sold. | 05:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | But dunno. | 05:50 |
| raster | or not rewrite | 05:50 |
| raster | but import large blobs of c++ in | 05:50 |
| javispedro | raster: nokia did | 05:50 |
| raster | linux kernel? | 05:50 |
| javispedro | raster: worse, rest of operating system :) | 05:50 |
| raster | that wasnt my point | 05:51 |
| raster | my point is - "base gnome on qt" is like saying "lets base linux kernel on c++" | 05:51 |
| raster | u can say wht u like | 05:51 |
| raster | u can be mark shuttleworth | 05:51 |
| raster | or any pundit | 05:51 |
| raster | it wont happen | 05:51 |
| raster | you're pushing poo uphill | 05:51 |
| javispedro | so, Nokia said "lets base Maemo on qt" which was like saying "lets base Hildon on qt" which is like saying "lets base Gnome on qt" | 05:52 |
| javispedro | of course the result is yet to be seen. | 05:52 |
| raster | no it isnt | 05:52 |
| javispedro | it is -- smaller scale, less employees, less LoCs. | 05:53 |
| raster | "lets base maemo on qt" is like canonical saying " our default will now be the kubuntu load, not the gnome-based ubuntu one. we're just swapping names. kubuntu -> ubuntu, ubuntu->gubuntu" | 05:53 |
| javispedro | bingo. | 05:53 |
| javispedro | of course, they have to manage to make kubuntu reasonably similar to existing ubuntu. | 05:54 |
| raster | but thats not what mark said | 05:54 |
| raster | he said make GNOME qt based | 05:54 |
| raster | not ubuntu | 05:54 |
| raster | GNOME | 05:54 |
| javispedro | it's not what Nokia said either. | 05:54 |
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| raster | very big difference | 05:54 |
| javispedro | marketing guy speaking! | 05:54 |
| raster | shuttleworth was not playing marketing speak | 05:56 |
| raster | if he was he'd just say "make ubuntu more qt based" | 05:56 |
| raster | as you want to push your own brand | 05:56 |
| raster | Termana: sorry umm.. thumb2? | 05:58 |
| raster | no thumb2? | 05:58 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: aha, found what I was thinking about: http://lucasr.org/2007/02/09/hildon-desktop-scalability/ | 05:58 |
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| raster | asking if it is or isnt supported? | 05:58 |
| Termana | raster, I hope it's not being compiled with thumb2 is what I meant (like Ubuntu 10.04 and 10.10) | 05:58 |
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| raster | oh no | 05:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro: nope, later than that. | 05:58 |
| raster | samsung are performance freaks | 05:59 |
| raster | they have entire teams who focus to try and get 5% speedups | 05:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro: 2008 three Hildon guys left Nokia to form their own startup. | 05:59 |
| raster | entire design decisions are made for 10% speedups :) | 05:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | they ended up releasing a pricey Linux/GTK-based netbook targeted at very average users. | 05:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nettl or something | 05:59 |
| Termana | raster, because the N900 has buggy thumb2 AFAIK, although there is a kernel workaround that is suppose to fix it but slows it down - but then a port wouldn't really work that well if it was all compiled with thumb2 | 06:00 |
| javispedro | ah, by the time Gtk->Qt migration started to sink down | 06:00 |
| raster | GeneralAntilles: i heard they left for some startup | 06:00 |
| raster | i never heard of it again :) | 06:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | raster: they posted a product page at some point. | 06:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | $800 or $900 USD | 06:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Looked interesting, but way pricey for an Atom-based device. | 06:01 |
| raster | GeneralAntilles: never saw/heard of it | 06:01 |
| raster | did they survive? die? where? | 06:01 |
| raster | what company? | 06:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Can't remember | 06:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wish I could come up with the name | 06:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Had an article on digg. | 06:01 |
| raster | google comes up with nothing i can see | 06:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Google's hiding it. | 06:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | There was a bunch of furor about them leaving Nokia | 06:02 |
| raster | yeah | 06:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | everybody thought it meant Maemo's ship was sinking. | 06:02 |
| raster | i rememebr that | 06:02 |
| javispedro | and it was. | 06:02 |
| javispedro | ah, tmoers already realizing Meego might never be "fast"! | 06:03 |
| javispedro | ah no, false alarm. there's still enough hype seems. | 06:03 |
| raster | let's see | 06:04 |
| wmarone | javispedro: should move to crush all hope ;) | 06:04 |
| raster | i hope meego doesnt stumble badly and end up a horrible os | 06:04 |
| raster | i like to have some friendly competition that takes some effort to beat :) | 06:04 |
| Termana | javispedro, I think it would help if OMAP3 DVFS was pushed mainline quicker :p | 06:05 |
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| javispedro | and it would also if imgtec started taking the way we composite seriously | 06:06 |
| javispedro | help. | 06:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hmm, need another CF for Dublin. | 06:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's no way I'm offloading an 8GB card onto an 8GB netbook. | 06:06 |
| raster | javispedro: what do u mean? | 06:06 |
| javispedro | h-d takes a weird way to compositing | 06:07 |
| javispedro | iPhone: apps are given a fbo | 06:07 |
| javispedro | WebOS: no compositing | 06:07 |
| javispedro | Android: nfi atm | 06:07 |
| javispedro | h-d: Nokia's X11_to_texture extension | 06:07 |
| raster | what is "weird way" | 06:07 |
| raster | err | 06:07 |
| raster | thats standard x compositing | 06:08 |
| javispedro | it is the common way in desktop | 06:08 |
| javispedro | that is why I like it. | 06:08 |
| raster | with pixmap->texture extn | 06:08 |
| raster | as best i know | 06:08 |
| raster | ours is | 06:08 |
| raster | we even have done some goodies to remove all sorts of copies in the pipeline | 06:08 |
| javispedro | maemo is the only platform that does anything similar. then again it is also the only platform that does x11. | 06:08 |
| raster | well not the only | 06:09 |
| raster | openmoko did x11 | 06:09 |
| javispedro | but the iphone way seems "more natural" to a resource limited platform. | 06:09 |
| raster | how is an fbo different to a window with a pixmap? | 06:09 |
| raster | composited? | 06:09 |
| raster | its the same thing | 06:09 |
| raster | UNLESS u are talking of gl using clients | 06:09 |
| raster | and forcing a client to render to a backbuffer | 06:09 |
| raster | and copy to the frontbuffer | 06:10 |
| raster | which is the pixmap | 06:10 |
| Termana | javispedro, aren't you suppose to be linking this to your original statement of imgtec and how they are effecting how we composite? | 06:10 |
| raster | whihc is then in turn composited again? | 06:10 |
| Termana | raster, openmoko | 06:10 |
| Termana | HA | 06:10 |
| Termana | :p | 06:10 |
| Macer | lmao. RED is awesome | 06:10 |
| Macer | it's funny | 06:10 |
| raster | Termana: still was an os and still used x11 :) | 06:10 |
| raster | maemo isnt the only one | 06:10 |
| raster | actually samsung did some ooold phones in combo with mizi research | 06:10 |
| Termana | raster, right, though there was no GLES | 06:11 |
| raster | only found them in kr/cn but they were x11 too | 06:11 |
| raster | many years back | 06:11 |
| raster | no no gles | 06:11 |
| raster | yes | 06:11 |
| raster | but what is weird about forcing rendering to a window to be redirected to a pixmap (which is an fbo for all intents and purposes) | 06:11 |
| javispedro | Termana: a) we composite in a weird way b ) their weird suggestions like copying!!! instead of swapping in compositor | 06:12 |
| javispedro | which to an outsider appear would be destined to cripple the platform | 06:12 |
| javispedro | but they're the experts, I guess. | 06:12 |
| raster | oh trust me | 06:13 |
| raster | maemos compositor is definitely sub-par | 06:13 |
| raster | along with the gl-es drivers/libs | 06:13 |
| javispedro | because of imgtec. | 06:13 |
| raster | done right u have a zero-copy swap for gl clients | 06:13 |
| raster | and z aero-copy swap for frontbuffer (triple buffered) in the compositor | 06:13 |
| javispedro | raster: imgtec says "maemo's way" is best one in their benchmarks | 06:13 |
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| javispedro | raster: yes, even with copying. | 06:13 |
| raster | and imgtec dont stop that from happening | 06:13 |
| raster | haha | 06:13 |
| raster | imgtec says many things | 06:13 |
| raster | imgtec isnt always right | 06:14 |
| raster | i had a long argument with them a few months back | 06:14 |
| raster | they insisted my proposal would be horrible and slow | 06:14 |
| raster | and it shouldnt be done | 06:14 |
| raster | copying was better | 06:14 |
| raster | guess who is the more stubborn out of me and imgtec.. and guess who finalyl got it implemented.. and tested it... and got a nice 3.5x speedup as a result :) | 06:15 |
| javispedro | if they do not care about your platform, you're gonna repeat same missteps Maemo did. | 06:15 |
| wmarone | does yours have tearing? | 06:15 |
| wmarone | ;) | 06:15 |
| raster | javispedro: nah. we have stubborn pricks like me to fix that :) we have the src. we can add what we need/want. | 06:16 |
| raster | wmarone: none. | 06:16 |
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| raster | wmarone: frontbuffer is actually vsync swapped - triple buffered. so a swap is just that - swap a pointer value for fb location | 06:16 |
| raster | and clients are also swapped | 06:16 |
| raster | and synced to compositor | 06:17 |
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| raster | (if they are gl they also do a literal swap, if they are not they draw to their pixmap as usual, but they can talk a sync protocol to avoid partially-rendered screen content) | 06:17 |
| javispedro | wmarone: note that on Maemo a lot of the tearing and general sluggishness comes from gtk+ apps themselves | 06:18 |
| javispedro | wmarone: you can check this by killing hildon-desktop | 06:18 |
| Gorroth | pump your fists in the air, everybody! i can now build ettercap as a maemo package | 06:18 |
| Gorroth | and soon you shall have it too | 06:18 |
| raster | javispedro: actually its both | 06:19 |
| javispedro | raster: yes | 06:19 |
| raster | javispedro: compositoe just dumbly copies regions from back to front buffer | 06:19 |
| raster | with no vsync | 06:19 |
| raster | so no matter what gtk did - that'd walways be a problem | 06:20 |
| raster | in addition last i checked gtk had no sync protol support for a compositor | 06:20 |
| javispedro | for ex. opera has virtually no tearing (pure Xlib app) | 06:20 |
| raster | in fact only compositor i know that has that kind of thing is e17's | 06:20 |
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| raster | both e17 and efl talk a sync protcol so clients will send special "dont with kmy frame" renderings to allow comp to defer update until then | 06:21 |
| * javispedro knew e17 was going to appear soonar or latter in the scene | 06:21 | |
| raster | then comp will "lock' the window while it uses the pixmap as src for compositing | 06:21 |
| raster | so pixmap keeps same src content | 06:21 |
| Termana | raster, what do you think of the new ones for MeeGo/N900 that were for Harmattan? (They are suppose to implement vsync) better? | 06:22 |
| raster | i havent seen tyhem personalyl | 06:22 |
| raster | so cant comment | 06:23 |
| raster | they may be better | 06:23 |
| raster | dont know | 06:23 |
| javispedro | Termana: also, Qt. | 06:23 |
| raster | gtk's rendering model is an old one | 06:23 |
| raster | just draw whatever bits changed in the window | 06:24 |
| raster | thats kind of fine | 06:24 |
| raster | as it really cut copies down | 06:24 |
| raster | u draw driect to the window | 06:24 |
| Termana | javispedro, right there is the toolkit change, but I was more interested on his thoughts on the drivers themselves compared to the ones in Maemo | 06:24 |
| raster | then gtk got the "draw regions to a pixmap then copy that onto the window" code | 06:24 |
| raster | but this means some reagons may be copies while others are still being prepared | 06:24 |
| raster | but compositor gets "damage" event for the partialupdates already | 06:25 |
| raster | thus u get a redraw | 06:25 |
| raster | its a simple matter of waiting for comp to finish with your window | 06:25 |
| raster | and sending a "i'm done drawing to it now" message to get rid of that | 06:25 |
| javispedro | Termana: afaiu you should be able to do proper vsync with current postpr1.2 drivers | 06:25 |
| raster | compositor itself of course needs to mvoeto full buffer swaps | 06:25 |
| raster | and driver needs to alsosupport this with vsync | 06:25 |
| javispedro | Termana: as long as you do not use h-d | 06:26 |
| raster | and u'd need triple buffering to avoid stalls | 06:26 |
| raster | (well avoid them more) | 06:26 |
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| javispedro | ooooh | 06:28 |
| javispedro | god. | 06:28 |
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| javispedro | I hate it when I start to get results in a hacking session just minutes before bedtime | 06:29 |
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| johnx | sleep is for the weak (or the weekend) | 06:30 |
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| VOA | hello i'm getting soon the nokia n900 can youn tell me if there is a good market app for maemo yet at the level of the other majors ? | 06:33 |
| Macer | hm | 06:33 |
| javispedro | <vader voice>Nooooooooooooooooooooo</vader> | 06:33 |
| Macer | no | 06:33 |
| Macer | heh | 06:33 |
| Macer | VOA: there is not.. there is the ovi store but it sucks | 06:34 |
| johnx | VOA, there's a pretty decent application manager, which does mostly the same as the market apps. | 06:34 |
| VOA | so if we want to buy apps for the n900 we must use the ovi right? | 06:34 |
| johnx | you can see the available applications in advance at http://maemo.org/downloads/ | 06:34 |
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| johnx | yeah. if you want paid apps it's pretty much ovi or nothing | 06:34 |
| johnx | free apps can be found at ovi.com or http://maemo.org/downloads/ | 06:34 |
| javispedro | and ovi is mostly nothing... | 06:34 |
| VOA | is that the application manager jhonx? | 06:34 |
| johnx | the application manager can pull from multiple "repositories" | 06:35 |
| johnx | so http://maemo.org/downloads/ is one and the ovi store is another | 06:35 |
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| raster | VOA: if you want to pay, use ovi | 06:36 |
| raster | if u want free, just use the app manager | 06:36 |
| raster | both come on your n900 | 06:36 |
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| VOA | thaks people as my primary use will be afther web gps is the ovi gps and world wide maps free? | 06:37 |
| chx | VOA: in case noone told you, the mobile app selection on Maemo is nowhere near the number of Android or iPhone. it's a Linux computer in your pocket with a phone wired on top | 06:38 |
| * javispedro notes that VOA has currently mentioned two usually bleak topics of the N900 | 06:38 | |
| VOA | well i all ready got 32 gb ipod touch so for apps i'm ok i just get n900 for internet tab quality pen testing and for gps | 06:39 |
| johnx | VOA, yeah. maps is included, but it's *not* the same program as the one for symbian | 06:39 |
| javispedro | app store = impressive free catalog, lacking paid catalog | 06:39 |
| johnx | I actually use google maps on it in the browser and have liked that just fine | 06:39 |
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| javispedro | gps = useless -- unless sygic and/or free maps are good enough for you. | 06:39 |
| VOA | well as long the gps works good and the world wide maps are free dosen't matter if it's ovi or not | 06:39 |
| javispedro | VOA: ovi doesn't do voice routing nor autonavigation | 06:40 |
| VOA | so what will we use for gps software on n900 ? | 06:40 |
| javispedro | VOA: commercial, downloadable maps there's only sygic. | 06:40 |
| javispedro | then you have the web stuff -- google maps in the browser, which I never tried, but I'm sure also doesn't do voice. | 06:41 |
| VOA | ill check it out a other question when new realise of maemo comes out we have free autopdate of the Os with n900? | 06:41 |
| javispedro | and the osm stuff. | 06:41 |
| javispedro | aha! | 06:41 |
| javispedro | VOA strikes another bleak topic. | 06:41 |
| wmarone | heh | 06:41 |
| johnx | VOA, there probably won't be major updates to maemo | 06:42 |
| VOA | well i want to make sure it has all i need as it cost alott of money :) | 06:42 |
| javispedro | VOA: why don't you ask about the geek stuff so that we can try to convince you? =) | 06:42 |
| javispedro | for ex. | 06:42 |
| javispedro | it has excellent irc client. | 06:42 |
| johnx | nokia is working on meego now, and there's a "not officially supported" port of meego to the N900 under way | 06:42 |
| raster | VOA: a lot of money? its cheap. | 06:42 |
| raster | like $400-$500 | 06:42 |
| johnx | raster, cost is relative. kthx | 06:43 |
| VOA | i am in Europe and here cost around 400 euro | 06:43 |
| javispedro | raster: your definition of cheap is nowhere near mine. | 06:43 |
| raster | javispedro: in the real of smartphones.. its cheap | 06:43 |
| VOA | so to be pricise when maemo 6 will come out we can't update to latest os or yes? | 06:43 |
| raster | most will cost $500-$600 | 06:43 |
| raster | n900 is on the lower end of the scale for sure | 06:43 |
| raster | VOA: there will be no maemo 6 | 06:44 |
| johnx | VOA, maemo 6 will be for the next device. Nokia won't provide maemo 6 for the N900 | 06:44 |
| raster | there will only be meego | 06:44 |
| javispedro | raster: (meego vs maemo6) long story... | 06:44 |
| johnx | yeah, what raster said is correct...it's uhm...kinda complicated | 06:44 |
| raster | javispedro: hehhehee | 06:44 |
| javispedro | johnx++ | 06:44 |
| raster | yeah | 06:44 |
| raster | and meego for the n900 is.. well.. a topic on its own | 06:44 |
| raster | not going to go into that | 06:45 |
| raster | indeed. | 06:45 |
| raster | long story | 06:45 |
| javispedro | this will get more confusing when harmattan is finally released and someone "correctly" deduces they always wanted to run harmattan on n900 instead of meego. | 06:45 |
| VOA | i see so basicaly it will remain a maemo 5 os based smartphone ? | 06:45 |
| johnx | VOA, yes. but there will be an unofficial port of meego which is under way | 06:46 |
| javispedro | VOA: describe how will you use the device? | 06:46 |
| VOA | gps internet plus video mp3 pics | 06:46 |
| johnx | but the version of meego that will be for the N900's successor won't run directly on the N900. Instead there is a community version of meego being worked on for the N900 | 06:46 |
| VOA | and pen testing | 06:46 |
| johnx | VOA, you'll probably love it | 06:46 |
| VOA | and few other stuff | 06:46 |
| javispedro | gps - bad. internet - excellent. video -- excellent. mp3 -- if battery life is enough for you -- excellent. | 06:47 |
| javispedro | well, so make it mp3 -- good :) | 06:47 |
| VOA | so if i am seeking specificaly gps you advise me the nokia navigator 2 option? | 06:47 |
| johnx | to be fair, it's not so great for in-car GPS, but the GPS chip with AGPS is pretty good, in my experience | 06:47 |
| VOA | as gps is what i need most | 06:47 |
| johnx | and google maps is fantastic on it, but has no voice directions | 06:47 |
| VOA | i am walking no car | 06:47 |
| VOA | and need a voice guide is that possible to achive ? | 06:48 |
| johnx | javispedro, are you talking about the GPS apps or the GPS reception itself? | 06:48 |
| javispedro | johnx: apps | 06:48 |
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| johnx | ok, I'll agree. the gps apps are kinda lame. I never tried sygic | 06:48 |
| johnx | might be worth finding a review of it somewhere | 06:48 |
| javispedro | VOA: johnx: gps reception is fine, it's software that is ... not up to the level a commercial users expects. | 06:48 |
| johnx | yup. can agree with that, though I'm happy with google maps for the most part | 06:49 |
| VOA | what about the nokia navigator i will pay much less you advise me it ? | 06:49 |
| johnx | but I think the options for a "real" GPS app are pretty much: sygic | 06:49 |
| javispedro | johnx: OSM "migth" be alternative depending on country. for ex. on spain it isn't currently. | 06:50 |
| johnx | sorry, but what is nokia navigator? | 06:50 |
| VOA | as that is my 2 option but i don't like it's symbian but if it does update to meego will be good as that phone as all | 06:50 |
| javispedro | ah, so you're looking for Nokia phones. | 06:50 |
| johnx | ah, hardware | 06:50 |
| VOA | it's a model from nokia made for gps | 06:50 |
| javispedro | a lot of #maemo people hate symbian, and I at least personally hate every. other. single. non. Maemo. Nokia. phone. ever. made. | 06:50 |
| johnx | yeah, I thought you meant a maemo app :) | 06:51 |
| VOA | no i am looking for a good gps in a smarthphone but i like the n900 couse you can use it for pen testing also | 06:51 |
| johnx | as a rule of thumb: don't expect meego to show up on any existing phone in a perfectly working end-user ready form | 06:51 |
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| johnx | the only existing phone that is actually somewhat likely to have meego working is the N900 | 06:52 |
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| VOA | well i am looking at this sygic seems to work great has voice guide for us walking gps users | 06:52 |
| VOA | so i might go with n900 | 06:52 |
| VOA | why you say it's not so good as commercial gps aps? | 06:52 |
| javispedro | because.. .there's only one =) | 06:52 |
| javispedro | if it's ok for you... for the better, welcome to the club. but ensure you check it out first. | 06:53 |
| chx | javispedro: wait, excellent IRC client?? which? all i found sucked more or less. | 06:53 |
| javispedro | chx: and you didn't port your favourite irc client to the n900 yet? | 06:53 |
| VOA | so if i understood correct maemo will become meego soon ? | 06:53 |
| chx | javispedro: porting is not enough, the problem is that zooming is per app | 06:53 |
| johnx | VOA, mostly yes. or more accurately. maemo will die, and meego will be the future | 06:54 |
| chx | javispedro: it'd be better if zooming would be a feature of the system somehow | 06:54 |
| javispedro | chx: "zooming"? | 06:54 |
| VOA | so we will see meego on n900 that will be cool | 06:54 |
| chx | javispedro: ie. i can't find a gooddamn irc client which can zoom | 06:54 |
| chx | javispedro: yes | 06:54 |
| Termana | javispedro, chx, xchat on the N900 is far better than anything else on any other platform | 06:54 |
| javispedro | sounds like something trivial to hack on xchat. | 06:54 |
| javispedro | Termana++ | 06:54 |
| chx | javispedro: with a fixed font either too little text on screen or can't read it , so small. | 06:54 |
| Termana | chx, increase font size? | 06:55 |
| VOA | did anyone did try installing backtrack for pen testing hacking on the n900 yet? | 06:55 |
| chx | I am dreaming of a Firefox-like zoomer. | 06:55 |
| VOA | how does it work as ethickal hacker device? | 06:55 |
| chx | tap, zoom. | 06:55 |
| chx | VOA: it works too awesome :) someone is porting firesheep too. | 06:55 |
| VOA | what is that for? | 06:55 |
| hatake_kakashi | get ready to be fleeced | 06:55 |
| VOA | hi hatake_kakashi was reading your reviews before | 06:56 |
| VOA | how you doing? | 06:56 |
| hatake_kakashi | -_-. | 06:56 |
| hatake_kakashi | yeah alright I guess, yourself? | 06:56 |
| VOA | very well now in my country you can get the n900 half price with 3 | 06:57 |
| hatake_kakashi | no better time to get n900 ;) | 06:57 |
| VOA | i basicaly give an account then must buy every month 10 euro of recharge and if i stay 24 months with em the pay the last part of it | 06:58 |
| VOA | yes i'm think to get it for xmas you all ready have it? | 06:58 |
| hatake_kakashi | or you could save money up and buy it outright, slightly better than contracting imo | 06:58 |
| hatake_kakashi | yes I already do | 06:58 |
| VOA | can i show you this option from 3 mobile ? | 06:58 |
| hatake_kakashi | wouldn't mean much to me lol | 06:59 |
| VOA | as it looks convinient like this i pay it just 249 euro | 06:59 |
| VOA | insted of 400 | 06:59 |
| VOA | btw as i got ipod touch 32 gb all ready my question is if keep it or not for the apple apps that are n1 one now on market and have both what you advise? | 07:01 |
| hatake_kakashi | I suppose you can keep ipod touch for apps if you're not really linux savvy :) | 07:02 |
| hatake_kakashi | there are a fair few n900 owners here having qualms with n900's email client | 07:03 |
| VOA | yes my idea was that even couse to sell app products eve if the as new you lose more then earn | 07:03 |
| hatake_kakashi | as an end user you shouldn't be worrying too much about that :) | 07:03 |
| VOA | i'm upsett with apple as i got the ipod touch last xmas and now they all ready want you to buy the cam mic new one so if you follow apple you must buy a device every year basicaly this is good that n900 is long lasting | 07:05 |
| hatake_kakashi | then again, once you have properly experienced n900 you'll know what it is like | 07:06 |
| Macer | the social network sucked | 07:06 |
| Macer | lmao | 07:06 |
| Macer | what a crappy movie | 07:06 |
| javispedro | what would you expect from a fad movie about a fad? | 07:06 |
| raster | VOA: device manufacturers make their living off selling you new devices. hell yeah they want you to buy new devices often. its how they put food in their mouths. | 07:08 |
| VOA | yes expecially apple | 07:08 |
| VOA | they make a part of software every year so you update like give you a mic but no cam etc | 07:08 |
| hatake_kakashi | or charging you to be able to transmit music to your FM tuner | 07:09 |
| hatake_kakashi | as a product | 07:09 |
| VOA | so the usb can share files with all nokia phones or even non nokia as on apple unless we jailbreak we can't | 07:10 |
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| hatake_kakashi | can share files: yes, can share files with all nokia phones: depending on the extension and which platform you are targeting | 07:12 |
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| VOA | so if we want to share with non nokia what we have to do and thanks for all the info | 07:13 |
| hatake_kakashi | depends on exactly what you want to share | 07:13 |
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| chrissbx | Is it possible to record fm radio input? Well I guess so, but with which program? | 07:19 |
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| VOA | so when you people think meego will come out and replace maemo? | 07:26 |
| Proteous | 2011 | 07:26 |
| wmarone | april, though it won't ever replace it fully | 07:26 |
| wmarone | at least, not on existing devices | 07:26 |
| VOA | will he very intrerstng can i use meego for the netbook yet try it ? | 07:28 |
| wmarone | yes | 07:29 |
| wmarone | the user interface has nothing in common with what's intended for the N900 though | 07:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hostmode more dangerous than OC@900 - muhahahaha. Actually a good one, matan! | 07:37 |
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| Macer | splice was pretty stupid | 07:42 |
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| Macer | http://qole.blogspot.com/2010/11/running-meego-handset-in-n900-chroot.html | 08:02 |
| Macer | has anybody tried that? | 08:03 |
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| VOA | so how much extra ram can you add to the n900? | 08:22 |
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| beford | 0 | 08:24 |
| ilius | VOA: do you mean swap??? | 08:25 |
| ilius | VOA: or memory card? | 08:25 |
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| VOA | memory added | 08:30 |
| VOA | that you can add to the all ready 32 gb | 08:30 |
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| VOA | with microsd | 08:33 |
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| raster | VOA: you cant add any ram | 08:34 |
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| raster | you can add more flash storage | 08:34 |
| raster | via micro-sd | 08:34 |
| VOA | you know how much? | 08:35 |
| papuas | at me work 4 Gb | 08:35 |
| raster | however big your micro-sd is | 08:35 |
| raster | it does sdhc | 08:35 |
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| papuas | VOA: he built-in 32 GB storage is big enough to store up to 7,000 of your favourite songs or 40 hours of DVD-quality video. And with an external microSD card you can expand the storage to up to 48 GB. | 08:42 |
| papuas | 32 GB internal storage | 08:42 |
| papuas | Expandable to up to 48 GB with an external microSD card | 08:42 |
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| raster | i see no reason it shouldnt handle 32b micro-sd's | 08:43 |
| raster | now that they are out | 08:43 |
| raster | 32gb | 08:43 |
| papuas | 48-32 = 16 | 08:43 |
| raster | i know | 08:43 |
| raster | no reason it shouldnt handle 32gb micro-sd's | 08:43 |
| raster | now that they are out | 08:44 |
| raster | it hasnt crossed over into sdxd land @ 32bg | 08:44 |
| raster | err 32gb | 08:44 |
| raster | err | 08:44 |
| raster | sdxc | 08:44 |
| Gorroth | hmm, interesting | 08:45 |
| Gorroth | the N900 is only $400 on newegg now | 08:45 |
| papuas | ) | 08:45 |
| raster | Gorroth: see. i keep saying its cheap | 08:45 |
| raster | and people idsagree | 08:45 |
| raster | :) | 08:45 |
| Gorroth | yeah, it's not terribly priced | 08:46 |
| * VOA slaps VOA around a bit with a large trout | 08:46 | |
| raster | thats actually pretty damned cheap | 08:46 |
| raster | most smartphones start at like $500->$600 wholesale | 08:46 |
| raster | to telcos | 08:46 |
| Gorroth | yeah | 08:46 |
| raster | and retail ends up closer to $800->1000 | 08:46 |
| Gorroth | i bought my N900 when it first came out. i think i got it for $500 because i preordered, but they were charging $550 for it | 08:46 |
| kerio | the n900 is cheap but there are cheaper options for a tiny computer | 08:47 |
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| kerio | if you don't need the monitor | 08:47 |
| raster | most smartphones will come down in price 6-12months later | 08:47 |
| raster | but still | 08:47 |
| raster | $400 is a good deal | 08:47 |
| Gorroth | true, but not one that you can fit in your pocket and do major hacking on... on your own phone or others, ol | 08:47 |
| Gorroth | lol* | 08:47 |
| papuas | i buy $750 in russia $) | 08:47 |
| raster | kerio: theres always cheaper. each level of cheaper u lose something | 08:47 |
| raster | lose screen | 08:47 |
| raster | lose 3g modem (go to 2g) | 08:47 |
| raster | or lose modem entirely | 08:48 |
| raster | lose bt | 08:48 |
| raster | lose wifi | 08:48 |
| raster | lose ram, lose flash | 08:48 |
| raster | ... | 08:48 |
| kerio | lose ram? | 08:48 |
| kerio | wtf | 08:48 |
| raster | u go from 256m to 128m | 08:48 |
| raster | for example | 08:48 |
| Gorroth | what maemo needs is a good turn-by-turn map app though; ovi maps sucks on the n900 | 08:48 |
| kerio | 400$ is 4 sheevaplugs | 08:48 |
| Gorroth | guruplugs | 08:48 |
| raster | Gorroth: make one using osm street data | 08:48 |
| Gorroth | raster: i don't want to make one | 08:48 |
| kerio | 4*1.2GHz cpu, 4*512mb ram, 4 usb ports, 4 gigabit ports | 08:48 |
| Gorroth | raster: i just use my nexus one for that | 08:49 |
| * slonopotamus yawns | 08:49 | |
| raster | kerio: but those have NOTHING in them except the cpu, some ram and storage | 08:49 |
| raster | pretty much | 08:49 |
| raster | or and wifi | 08:49 |
| kerio | and gigabit | 08:49 |
| kerio | don't forget teh gigabit | 08:49 |
| Gorroth | and usb | 08:49 |
| raster | no screen, no modem, no large built in flash.. no kbd..... :) | 08:49 |
| raster | bah | 08:49 |
| slonopotamus | kerio: alternatively, $400 is a hell lot of icecream. | 08:49 |
| Gorroth | but the n900 you can connect to a cellular network and do good or bad things with it >:) | 08:49 |
| kerio | or a lot of bacon | 08:49 |
| raster | Gorroth: and thus the problem will persist | 08:50 |
| raster | because peoplpe just say they want/need an app | 08:50 |
| raster | and dont get up and DO it. :) | 08:50 |
| Gorroth | raster: yeah, well, maybe nokia could get on it :) | 08:50 |
| kerio | "There's an app for that. Compile it." | 08:50 |
| Gorroth | raster: but the cost/benefit doesn't pay off for me to do it, because i have a nexus one | 08:50 |
| kerio | :< | 08:50 |
| kerio | you infidel | 08:50 |
| Gorroth | i have been compiling and package software for the n900 lately though | 08:51 |
| Gorroth | i added squid to extras-devel the other day | 08:51 |
| Gorroth | with ssl bump and transparent proxy support | 08:51 |
| Gorroth | and i'm about done with libnet-dev and ettercap | 08:51 |
| Gorroth | (bit new to debian packaging; so, it takes me some guesswork sometimes to make it work) | 08:51 |
| papuas | n900 work with aircrack-ng :) | 08:53 |
| Gorroth | does kernel-power include all the modules necessary to setup a WAP? | 08:53 |
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| slonopotamus | wap? | 08:53 |
| Gorroth | wireless access point | 08:54 |
| kerio | Gorroth: yup | 08:54 |
| papuas | yes | 08:54 |
| kerio | and there's an app for that! | 08:54 |
| Gorroth | excellent | 08:54 |
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| Gorroth | yeah, i know there's an app, the "Mobile HotSpot" app? that looks like it sucks :) | 08:54 |
| Gorroth | i was just going to setup some scripts | 08:54 |
| Gorroth | but kernel-power is having problems on pr1.3 right now? | 08:55 |
| papuas | no | 08:55 |
| papuas | at me work fine | 08:56 |
| Gorroth | okay, i'll try installing it soon | 08:56 |
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| ilius | Gorroth: maep is good | 09:05 |
| ilius | Gorroth: i much prefer it to damn ovi maps | 09:06 |
| ilius | Gorroth: faster and support for different map types from different servers | 09:07 |
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| ilius | Gorroth: it just need some new features like favorite places and routing | 09:07 |
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| Gorroth | ilius: thanks for the recommendation. i'll check it out, but i assume it doesn't do voice navigation either | 09:12 |
| ilius | Gorroth: no | 09:14 |
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| ilius | Gorroth: its simple and clear | 09:14 |
| Gorroth | okay, cool | 09:15 |
| Gorroth | papuas: with kernel-power, it doesn't automatically overlock the n900 does it? i'm not interested in that particular feature | 09:16 |
| Gorroth | nvermind | 09:16 |
| Gorroth | i missed the very last sentence in the apt-cache show for it | 09:16 |
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| jvesiluoma | oh crap, I forgot the usb cable to my home, can't test that usb thingie now, aeergh... | 09:17 |
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| ilius | till-: ping | 09:24 |
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| ilius | how to see/set target (i386 or armel) in scratchbox? | 09:37 |
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| Psi | anyone else have an issue where the fm radio only works once, then you need to reboot? | 09:52 |
| Psi | it used to work, i think it may have been the latest update | 09:52 |
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| Gorroth | ilius: sb-conf select FREMANTLE_<X86|ARMEL> | 09:56 |
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| ilius | fakeroot sb-menu -> Install -> FREMANTLE_ARMEL -> check C-runtime and OK | 09:57 |
| ilius | but in the next time, its still unchecked! where am i wrong? | 09:57 |
| ilius | i can's install C-runtime then i can't compile anything for armel | 09:58 |
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| Gorroth | hmm, i don't know. i did the entire install from the command line | 09:58 |
| Gorroth | as my dev machine is a debian VM on my mac | 09:58 |
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| Gorroth | i don't use the GUI tools at the moment, as i'm not developing a GUI; so, i can't help you with anything other than sb-conf and basic stuff liket hat | 09:59 |
| ilius | i get this error during compile: | 10:00 |
| ilius | configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs. | 10:00 |
| Gorroth | hmm, i don't know what that means; i never had problems setting it up | 10:01 |
| Gorroth | did you follow all the instructions on the maemo sdk website? | 10:01 |
| Gorroth | also, i live near NYC; i'm going to take part in that physical dead drops thing this weekend | 10:01 |
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| Gorroth | whiel i'm hopefully using the n900 for rascally stuff :) | 10:01 |
| ilius | Gorroth: :) | 10:02 |
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| achipa | X-Fade: ping | 10:15 |
| X-Fade | achipa: pong | 10:15 |
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| ilius | in there a good (and update) tutorial for maemo sdk? | 10:16 |
| achipa | X-Fade: did you do any manual promotion-shuffle around PR1.3 regarding PyQt ? Some packages got promoted to extras, others not, so now it's wreaking havoc on people | 10:16 |
| ilius | i am readig this http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/user-guide.html | 10:16 |
| ilius | but some command does not exist in my scratchbox | 10:16 |
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| X-Fade | achipa: I need a list of affected apps. | 10:17 |
| X-Fade | achipa: You were looking into something last time we spoke. | 10:18 |
| achipa | X-Fade: about everything using PyQt | 10:18 |
| achipa | X-Fade: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/python2.5-qt4-dev/4.7.5-maemo1/ | 10:18 |
| achipa | X-Fade: this got pulled into extras somehow | 10:18 |
| achipa | X-Fade: (without the libs themselves) | 10:18 |
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| X-Fade | achipa: Hmm yeah, a build depend. | 10:19 |
| achipa | (extras has 4.7.4 and that was ok, 4.7.5 was in extras-devel for a reason) | 10:19 |
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| achipa | soo... what do we do about it ? :) | 10:20 |
| X-Fade | Sigh, I really, really need to get OBS working for Maemo. This repo stuff is getting out of hand :) | 10:20 |
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| achipa | (disclaimer: I will be uploading a whole new PyQt shortly, but it will take ~2 weeks to reach extras and fix the issue on it's own) | 10:21 |
| jvesiluoma | ahh, managed to mount 8Gb usb memory (Kingston), but after a while, memory stick is automatically dismounted and syslog is filled with errors that FAT read failed..oh well, maybe that memory is bad... | 10:21 |
| crashanddie_ | its | 10:21 |
| X-Fade | achipa: Well we can push a new pyqt if that solves issues. | 10:22 |
| achipa | ~thank | 10:22 |
| infobot | sure thing, achipa | 10:22 |
| achipa | X-Fade: the thing is I *would* like QA on it as it's (sp ?) a major update (QtQuick support, yadda yadda) | 10:23 |
| X-Fade | Hmm, well how to fix it then? | 10:23 |
| jvesiluoma | and it seems that N900 recognizes my EOS 400D, but in the syslog I get "ke_recv[1397]: device_added:2629: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device_4a9_3110_noserial_if0 is not a storage or volume" arf...well time to try card reader.. | 10:23 |
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| achipa | X-Fade: is it too much fuss to remove the offending 4.7.5 parts from testing and prevent the -dev from getting dragged in ? | 10:24 |
| achipa | (it's always too much fuss, I know, but is it WAY too much :) ) | 10:24 |
| crashanddie_ | jvesiluoma, I don't think Canon's DSLRs show up as mass storage | 10:25 |
| X-Fade | achipa: I can wipe them from testing and extras if that solves it? | 10:25 |
| crashanddie_ | jvesiluoma, don't you need the Canon SDK/API to talk to those devices? | 10:25 |
| SpeedEvil | jvesiluoma: how do you read it on linux usually? | 10:26 |
| achipa | X-Fade: but wont the very next pyqt app promotion pull them in again ? | 10:26 |
| X-Fade | achipa: But on the first promotion from -devel they would come back in. | 10:26 |
| achipa | right | 10:26 |
| jvesiluoma | SpeedEvil: usually I just use card reader, wich (btw) works | 10:26 |
| SpeedEvil | google on how to read it onlinux | 10:26 |
| jvesiluoma | So now I can make backup of my photos via card reader when I'm on holidays, hooray | 10:27 |
| SpeedEvil | tehre is possiblyanapp | 10:27 |
| SpeedEvil | gphoto - for example | 10:27 |
| X-Fade | It would be nice for this Qt stuff to be compatible ... ;) | 10:27 |
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| crashanddie_ | SpeedEvil, you need the gphoto2 thingy AFAIK | 10:27 |
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| achipa | X-Fade: action plan - remove the offending ones, I upload PyQt 4.8, and if someone promote, he'll be testing with 4.8 and we'll live somehow until the rest of the packages arrive... is that a reasonable compromise ? | 10:28 |
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| crashanddie_ | jvesiluoma, if you wish to use the 400D from the N900, you'll have to port gphoto to Maemo. The 400D is supported in PTP mode (Picture Transfer Protocol) through gphoto2: http://www.gphoto.org/proj/libgphoto2/support.php | 10:29 |
| jvesiluoma | crashanddie_: yeah, they don't usually show as mass storage drives, the method they use is PTP or something.. | 10:29 |
| jvesiluoma | crashanddie_: okay, have to check that and see if it's easy to port it | 10:30 |
| crashanddie_ | well, IIRC, Nikon allows you to select PTP or MSM | 10:30 |
| achipa | X-Fade: there is also another issue that we could resolve in one go: forbid promotion of anything that depends on python2.5-qt4-* (due to HAM braindeadness I now have to suggest everyone to depend on the metapackage and pull in all packages) | 10:30 |
| X-Fade | achipa: Or you could upload a new 4.7.5 revision and I push that all the way up to Extras? | 10:30 |
| SpeedEvil | jvesiluoma: It should be a simple matter of compiling libusb and the command-line app | 10:31 |
| crashanddie_ | jvesiluoma, gphoto usually to do nifty things such as timing shots and stuff like that. You could hack your own intervalometer and implement automated FTP/wifi uploads. | 10:31 |
| SpeedEvil | jvesiluoma: the GUI will be a little more invoved. | 10:31 |
| jvesiluoma | who needs gui, CLI for teh win ;) | 10:31 |
| achipa | X-Fade: umm, that one has a few nasty upstream bugs as it was the first release that supported mobility, not that good at all (would have pushed to extras otherwise myself) | 10:31 |
| X-Fade | achipa: Hmm it is never easy ;) | 10:32 |
| jvesiluoma | crashanddie_: yup, that would be very nice, I think I'll have to make somekind of dev environment to my NAS, hehe | 10:32 |
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| jvesiluoma | crashanddie_: oh, and thanks for the link btw | 10:33 |
| crashanddie_ | np | 10:33 |
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| crashanddie_ | I'm actually thinking about using the N900 for some quite advanced stuff, related to the openmoco.org project | 10:34 |
| crashanddie_ | Such as using it to control a pan/tilt or dolly. | 10:34 |
| crashanddie_ | the idea would be to make a 3D timelapse | 10:34 |
| achipa | crashanddie_: you only need 'zoom and enhance' | 10:35 |
| jvesiluoma | ahh, interesting | 10:35 |
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| jvesiluoma | Don't know if it really happens, but it would be relatively easi to control CAVE (Cave Automated Virtual Environment) system with N900 and use it to make selections in virtual environment etc... (and if anyone is interested, this is CAVE => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_Automatic_Virtual_Environment ) | 10:36 |
| jvesiluoma | easi = easy | 10:36 |
| X-Fade | achipa: Ok, then let me shoot all 4.7.5 versions. | 10:37 |
| achipa | X-Fade: ok | 10:38 |
| * crashanddie_ gives X-Fade a gun# | 10:38 | |
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| opdf2 | how do i put iNES in full screen? | 10:40 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Once we got all this OBS setup sorted out, we might want to reserve some hardware in the future for bringing up other archs etc. | 10:41 |
| X-Fade | Hmm -EWINDOW ;) | 10:41 |
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| crashanddie_ | damn, how come we still can't open .vsd or .vdx files under Linux? | 11:18 |
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| crashanddie_ | achipa, real hackers, like Spock, use the "compute" keyword | 11:19 |
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| VOA | i'm back in black | 11:35 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Stskeeps: Just curious, but do you think you could promote bootmenu-n900 to extras-testing? It looks like it's been sitting in devel long enough... | 11:39 |
| crashanddie_ | VOA, right | 11:41 |
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| jase21 | Does the upcoming MeeGo support GTK+ app development? | 11:48 |
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| VOA | are we ready to rock here? | 11:51 |
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| Khertan_ | Morning all | 12:13 |
| * Khertan_ like the webchat captcha µ@v | 12:13 | |
| Khertan_ | nice to enter :) | 12:14 |
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| crashanddie_ | khertan, you killed 3 people in a row? | 12:24 |
| RST38h | ...with his bicycle! | 12:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | Ok, I've got a question for you guys: I'm trying to run SSHD from a ramdisk, and I get the error "Privilege separation user sshd does not exist". What am I missing here, and where is it stored? | 12:26 |
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| marmoute | adduser sshd ? | 12:28 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Where does the information get stored? | 12:30 |
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| crashanddie_ | RobbieThe1st, /etc/passwd | 12:30 |
| crashanddie_ | you probably need to do a proper install of sshd, though | 12:31 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Well, I have a proper install on the rootfs. But I'm trying to copy the required files into a ramdisk for BackupMenu. I used ldd to get sshd's library requirements, but there are apparently other required bits also | 12:32 |
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| crashanddie_ | RobbieThe1st, the users need to be in both systems | 12:32 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Erm, not entirely sure what you mean. I create my ramdisk at boot time by copying all the files I need from the source rootfs. Which means the systems should be "one and the same" provided all needed files are copied | 12:34 |
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| RobbieThe1st | In this case, I -for whatever reason- had no need for /etc/passwd, so it wasn't copied. I'll try copying it and see if anything else is needed | 12:36 |
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| crashanddie_ | binding it is probably a better idea | 12:38 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Will it still work once I chroot into the ramdisk and then unmount the rootfs? | 12:40 |
| RobbieThe1st | It seems like not... but I'm not entirely sure | 12:40 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Does anyone know what files are required for password authentication for sshd? /etc/passwd- seems to have the encrypted root password in it... | 12:59 |
| SpeedEvil | ~/.ssh/ has to be the right permissions, and have an authorised_keys file in it of the right form with the right permissions | 13:00 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 13:00 |
| SpeedEvil | password | 13:00 |
| SpeedEvil | look at /etc/sshd.config I think | 13:00 |
| SpeedEvil | check root login is allowed | 13:00 |
| SpeedEvil | and also check sshd is running of course | 13:00 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea, I've got sshd running, and have copied /etc/passwd and /etc/passwd- (as root) to my ramdisk at bootup... I can get a SSH console over usb networking, but my root password doesn't work | 13:03 |
| RobbieThe1st | I have checked the password by trying "login root" as root from xterm, and it -does- let me login with that pass | 13:03 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Does sshd(on the n900) directly interact with the passwd file, or is there some other tool it uses? | 13:04 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 13:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Wrong channel, sorry. | 13:04 |
| RobbieThe1st | It seems close enough | 13:05 |
| SpeedEvil | If you install the ssshd daemon and client from the repos - opensshd - it should 'just work' | 13:05 |
| RobbieThe1st | I've got -that- working, that's not an issue | 13:05 |
| SpeedEvil | It should ask for a password when you install it | 13:05 |
| SpeedEvil | for root | 13:05 |
| SpeedEvil | then you can just ssh in | 13:05 |
| SpeedEvil | 'to my ramdisk' ? | 13:06 |
| RobbieThe1st | I'm trying to run it from my ramdisk-based chroot | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | you are not running sshd on the base system then? | 13:06 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Um... Yes and no. When bootmenu-n900 launches my program, it starts by copying a load of files including busybox and sshd and it's requirements into a ramdisk. | 13:07 |
| RobbieThe1st | I then chroot into that ramdisk, and launch sshd from there. any files that are copied should be the same as the host system(maemo on your rootfs), but I'm thinking this a case of missing some required file | 13:08 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Basically, I'm working on a remote rescue shell that'll allow you to mess with the rootfs, optfs, SD and MyDocs to your heart's content. | 13:10 |
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| djszapi | can I set up maemo on 'NokiaN810' ?| | 13:27 |
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| ebzzry | Has somebody been able to simulate the tapping of the Back button (e.g., Modest, upper right area, when it is not the close window invocation) via command or keyboard shortcut? | 13:30 |
| Juozapas | hey how to change stanby clock background? | 13:30 |
| crashanddie_ | djszapi, Maemo already is on a Nokia N810. | 13:30 |
| djszapi | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#N800.2FN810 | 13:30 |
| crashanddie_ | djszapi, yes, and? | 13:32 |
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| ilius | is it possible to use N900 as a TV remote control without using PC or any other hardware? | 13:33 |
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| Scelt | ilius: irreco | 13:33 |
| ebzzry | ilius: qtirreco | 13:33 |
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| ilius | Scelt: ebzzry: i'm reading http://irreco.garage.maemo.org/documentation.html | 13:34 |
| ilius | but that descibes about N800 | 13:34 |
| ebzzry | qtirreco pretty much does the dirty job of downloading the ir profiles | 13:34 |
| ilius | does not have N800 infrared transmitter? | 13:35 |
| ilius | the image says that it needs PC | 13:35 |
| ebzzry | ilius: What image? | 13:36 |
| ilius | ebzzry: in my above link | 13:37 |
| ilius | ebzzry: image http://irreco.garage.maemo.org/images/howitworks.png | 13:37 |
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| ebzzry | If you want to use the N900 as a TV RC, (qt)irreco does the job. If you want the technical details, look elsewhere. | 13:38 |
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| jacekowski | ilius: yep, you need something with ir | 13:39 |
| ebzzry | ilius: The image doesn't imply that you actually need to have a PC to control a TV. | 13:39 |
| jacekowski | you do | 13:39 |
| jacekowski | or some external box | 13:39 |
| jacekowski | as n800 has no ir builtin | 13:39 |
| ebzzry | ilius: Well that's for lirc. | 13:40 |
| ebzzry | Yup. | 13:40 |
| ebzzry | ilius: But if you are on the N900, then it doesn't necessarily apply. | 13:42 |
| ilius | hmmm | 13:43 |
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| ebzzry | ilius: Give qtIrreco a try and you won't be disappointed. | 13:44 |
| ebzzry | ilius: Some remotes have different names, though. YMMV. | 13:45 |
| ilius | ebzzry: ok | 13:45 |
| ilius | i installed it and will try tonight | 13:46 |
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| alterego | I was dissappointed, couldn't get it to work wth any of my stuff :( | 13:49 |
| Saviq | hi all, did anyone notice the calendar reminders synced to SyncML being offset by timezone? i.e. I have an event 12:00, reminder is 30 minutes before but on the SyncML side and on the other synced device the reminder is 12:30 instead of 11:30... | 13:50 |
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| ebzzry | Will somebody please remind me of the keyboard shortcut to change the orientation? | 14:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | raster: o/ :-) | 14:13 |
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| raster | DocScrutinizer: \o/ | 14:17 |
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| andre___ | so why did I register my nickname if somebody else uses it anyway? | 14:21 |
| * andre___ grumbles | 14:21 | |
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| yacc | andre___, ghost him? | 14:22 |
| yacc | ebzzry, C-S-O? | 14:23 |
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| andre___ | yacc: ah, didn't know that exists. thanks! | 14:24 |
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| Termana | Your ignorance and stupidity is beyond me. | 14:25 |
| Termana | You should have set it to auto-kill when you don't get identified to within 20 seconds | 14:25 |
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| andre__ | Termana: refering to me? | 14:26 |
| Termana | andre__, anyone else here right now that forgot how to use nickserv properly? :p | 14:26 |
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| andre__ | Termana: seems like you expect everybody to have the same level of IRC knowledge that you have. | 14:27 |
| Termana | andre__, do /msg nickserv set enforce on | 14:27 |
| andre__ | Termana: Thanks for showing off that you have the master clue. I'll refer to you in case of future dumb questions ;-) | 14:28 |
| alterego | Do I remember someone saying there was something wrong with PR1.3 and qmobility geo location? | 14:31 |
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| Termana | alterego, you seem to be remembering it ;) :p | 14:34 |
| alterego | Termana: do you know for sure? | 14:34 |
| alterego | Can't find anything on google, but my app isn't working :/ | 14:34 |
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| alterego | Oh, weird, now it's working. | 14:37 |
| alterego | Maybe that was the problem .. | 14:37 |
| alterego | Intermittant failre ^.^ | 14:37 |
| Termana | alterego, you just needed me to grill you for a second before it would start working | 14:37 |
| alterego | Oh, nice feature ::P | 14:37 |
| Termana | :p | 14:38 |
| alterego | Annnoying, yeah, it doesn't seem to work everytime. | 14:38 |
| alterego | I remember someone telling me about this. | 14:38 |
| Termana | alterego, want me to turn the abuse up a bit, see if that helps? | 14:39 |
| Termana | :p | 14:39 |
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| jacekowski | what's a difference between c7 and n8 | 14:39 |
| hrw | if someone uses apmefo then 0.10-2 is available on tmo | 14:39 |
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| Termana | jacekowski, 11 letters and 1 number | 14:40 |
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| Termana | jacekowski, seriously though, I think they included a lesser camera and no HDMI-out and some other things less on the C7 | 14:41 |
| jacekowski | hmm, compare site | 14:41 |
| jacekowski | real keyboard on c7 | 14:42 |
| totalizator | hi, how can I append configure script option when compiling with scratchbox (for Diablo)? | 14:42 |
| jacekowski | slightly heavier | 14:42 |
| jacekowski | led flash instead of xeon | 14:43 |
| jacekowski | xenon* | 14:43 |
| jacekowski | 8mpix | 14:43 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders a xeon flash. | 14:43 | |
| SpeedEvil | I guess that'd be longwave-IR | 14:43 |
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| ebzzry | ruskie: Are you there? | 14:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn that N9 kbd looks lovely - alas I'm sure I'll hate the touchscreen | 14:51 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, your late for the party | 14:52 |
| Termana | you're* | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: party starts when I'm there | 14:53 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, touche good sir | 14:53 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: do you have pictures? | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 14:54 |
| jacekowski | oh | 14:54 |
| jacekowski | wow | 14:54 |
| jacekowski | that's cute | 14:54 |
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| jacekowski | why we get all crap they have | 14:54 |
| jacekowski | and symbian get's all good stuff | 14:54 |
| jacekowski | gets* | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china | 14:55 |
| Termana | jacekowski, what are you talking about? :p | 14:55 |
| jacekowski | n8 keyboard | 14:55 |
| jacekowski | much better than n900 on screen keyboard | 14:56 |
| Termana | Who wants to use one of those anyway? :p | 14:56 |
| Termana | (on-screen keyboard) | 14:56 |
| jacekowski | iphone loosers | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I do occasionally. | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Can be useful when one-handed | 14:57 |
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| crashanddie_ | loosers? | 14:57 |
| crashanddie_ | I thought it was one-piece, couldn't get loose? | 14:57 |
| jacekowski | you don't get it | 14:57 |
| mtnbkr | can someone help me to convince the built-in "media player" app that my music is still there? It seems that after the latest update (might be conicidence) media play n longer sees all the music in .sounds, however filemanager can browse the "Audio Clips" symlink and other apps like "MediaBox" can see/play all sonds in .sounds just fine. | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | rm ~/wherever | 14:58 |
| crashanddie_ | mtnbkr, kill the tracker index? | 14:58 |
| Termana | mtnbkr, wag a finger at it and sternly tell it to behave otherwise you will apt-get remove it | 14:58 |
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| mtnbkr | crashanddie_: I have rebooted, shouldn't that be enough? | 14:59 |
| mtnbkr | Termana: heh :) | 14:59 |
| crashanddie_ | nope | 14:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | ~/.cache/tracker | 15:00 |
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| mtnbkr | SpeedEvil: ok, will try that... killing the tracker-indexer did not help... | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: don't talk that dirty to infobot! | 15:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | also | 15:02 |
| SpeedEvil | If you CPU is pinned, just leaving it alone for a week to finish indexing will work. | 15:02 |
| kerio | waiting? what i hear | 15:03 |
| kerio | nonsense | 15:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | why hdperf? we got tracker :-P | 15:04 |
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| MohammadAG51 | I need to reflash my device... | 15:05 |
| phellarv | ~flashing | 15:05 |
| infobot | hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 15:05 |
| phellarv | ;-P | 15:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | well played | 15:06 |
| mtnbkr | SpeedEvil: ok, I had to rm that .cache/tracker dir, kill tracker-indexer AND kill trackerd for media player to show the "retrieving information on new files" and it looks like it wants to run for ~7mins so that might have done ti. thanks. | 15:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | don't trust in that 7min :-P | 15:06 |
| timeless_xchat | there's wifi for part of my walk to work :o | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | the get more rather than less over time | 15:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | why not tracker reset? | 15:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | ~trackerreset | 15:07 |
| infobot | i guess trackerreset is "tracker-processes --hard-reset" in Terminal | 15:07 |
| Termana | timeless_xchat, you came on to tell us you are stealing someone else's wifi? | 15:07 |
| mtnbkr | SpeedEvil: is there a know set of circumstances that would cause that | 15:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | as user of course | 15:07 |
| mtnbkr | MohammadAG51: thanks | 15:07 |
| * Termana rings the police | 15:07 | |
| Termana | :p | 15:07 |
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| mtnbkr | MohammadAG51: but killall trackerd is shorter and it "seemed" to work :) | 15:08 |
| * MohammadAG51 calls the internet police, escort Termana to cell 404 please | 15:08 | |
| SpeedEvil | mtnbkr: I would like to say that it should be possible to find bugs in tracker by inspecting the source, but IIRC it's closed. | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | police beats up Termana and takes him out for a friendly interview | 15:08 |
| mtnbkr | SpeedEvil: I hear that | 15:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | mtnbkr, well, that command rms the directory, stops everything, then you have to start the media player | 15:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | so, it's a bit cleaner :P | 15:08 |
| Termana | SpeedEvil, find bugs in? It is a bug in itself :p | 15:08 |
| mtnbkr | MohammadAG51: ahh got it | 15:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | also, 7 mins? | 15:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | nice | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: I'd argue not. | 15:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | mine usually says 45:xx | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: It's in principle a useful service. | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | It's just ratehr broken. | 15:09 |
| Termana | Like your spelling? | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: for example, it indexes for stuff that nothing uses. | 15:09 |
| Termana | :p | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: My spelling is fine. | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | My typing, is not. | 15:09 |
| Termana | ;) | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | As it's 7C in here, I'm typing under the blankets, and looking at the fishtank, not the screen. | 15:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | Though the looking at the fishtank is not relevant to the temperature. | 15:10 |
| phellarv | SpeedEvil: What survives in the fishtank at 7C? | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Goldfish. | 15:10 |
| timeless_xchat | nope | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Fancy ones. | 15:10 |
| timeless_xchat | i'm using 3g | 15:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | phellarv, you | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - and koi - in principle, though there are none in it. | 15:10 |
| jacekowski | phellarv: in winter you have 4C and most of stuff survives | 15:10 |
| phellarv | SpeedEvil: With build in heaters? | 15:10 |
| * MohammadAG51 puts phellarv in a fish tank :P | 15:10 | |
| timeless_xchat | helsinki has an open network downtown | 15:10 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders if the fish are wearing wool jackets | 15:10 | |
| timeless_xchat | but the edge of downtown has grown | 15:11 |
| timeless_xchat | sadly, my mac is not geolocation aware | 15:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, no, they use a freerunner with a mugwarmer :P | 15:11 |
| phellarv | Fish in Wool jackets, singing "I will survive.....:" | 15:11 |
| timeless_xchat | it didn't notice i changed time zones :( | 15:11 |
| jacekowski | fish can live in water that has 4C | 15:12 |
| jacekowski | without any problems | 15:12 |
| phellarv | jacekowski: I know, but very slowly. | 15:12 |
| phellarv | ;-P | 15:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | live slowly - I'l print a poster with that | 15:12 |
| phellarv | DocScrutinizer: Hehe | 15:13 |
| * MohammadAG51 wonders if the pandaboard it out | 15:13 | |
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| MohammadAG51 | also, why is bme retarded, as in, it drops the battery meter from half to 1 bar if you restart it | 15:14 |
| mtnbkr | MohammadAG51, SpeedEvil: seems it is finished, and it found my 234 Videos (pod casts) but STILL only sees 63 songs, and there are FAR more than that | 15:14 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: because battery monitoring isn't an exact science, mine does that then a few minutes later it goes up again. | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | http://twitter.com/#!/UnvirtuousAbbey/status/28628723135 | 15:15 |
| phellarv | MohammadAG51: "PandaBoard is available for ordering now through Digi-Key. Visit PandaBoard.org and click on Order now." | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: odd | 15:15 |
| Sargun_Screen | ppanda board is omap4? | 15:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | yes | 15:16 |
| alterego | It's probably due to consumption, on startup it's using more power, then when it idles for a bit the measurements stabalize. | 15:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | phellarv, ty | 15:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, no, I meant when restarting bme itself | 15:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | (stop; start) | 15:16 |
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| alterego | Oh, no idea then. | 15:17 |
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| psycho_oreos | alterego, was it you that suggested to use dar to create an archive of n900 :) | 15:23 |
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| bleader | is there a way to get vibration and/or beep in xterm-oss ? I cannot seem to find a way to get something like this working | 15:25 |
| mtnbkr | MohammadAG51: I just tried that command you posted to... it locates a bunch of db files, and removes them, and kills off the trackerd and indexer processes, but still only finds 63 of 1662 songs is there nything else I can try? | 15:26 |
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| Termana | Delete the songs | 15:28 |
| Termana | Use VLC instead | 15:28 |
| Termana | Use Groove and stream them instead | 15:28 |
| Termana | Red pill or Blue pill? | 15:29 |
| RST38h | "No credibility but Symbian is still "the most successful failure" in tech history" (C)AllAboutSymbian | 15:29 |
| kerio | there is no spoon! | 15:29 |
| kerio | and the cake is a lie, too | 15:29 |
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| mtnbkr | Do or do not. There is no try... | 15:29 |
| RST38h | "A hugely entertaining read by Tim Ocock (formerly of Symbian) over on Tech Crunch Europe this morning." | 15:29 |
| Termana | RST38h, you don't need to convince US that Symbian sucks | 15:30 |
| mtnbkr | srsly... why does my N900 only see a (very) small subset of my music all of a sudden? :) | 15:30 |
| Termana | Cause the US already doesn't have a Symbian marketshare. BA DUM CHHHH | 15:30 |
| RST38h | Termana: I am long past this point and well into "Watch clowns suck" | 15:30 |
| Termana | See what I did thar? | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Blead: cat /usr/local/bin/beep | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | #!/bin/sh | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | play-sound /usr/share/sounds/game-chess_checkmate.wav | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | mtnbkr: Are they all of one sort of file? | 15:31 |
| RST38h | "Yet the difficulty of writing good Symbian code was hugely beneficial to Symbian as a business in the early days. For many years, 80% of Symbians revenues were earned through consulting for licensees." | 15:31 |
| RST38h | Eeek | 15:31 |
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| bleader | SpeedEvil: will this be called when some application in xterm generate a 'beep' ? | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 15:31 |
| * RST38h warms his hands in the flames of someone's burning business model | 15:32 | |
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| mtnbkr | SpeedEvil: just about all of them are ogg vorbis .ogg files | 15:32 |
| MohammadAG | what's a good gstreamer based DVD decoding app? | 15:32 |
| * Termana snorts | 15:32 | |
| Termana | OGG Vorbis :p | 15:32 |
| MohammadAG | even if it's terminal based, mplayer sucks for DVDs | 15:32 |
| MohammadAG | on the N900 at least | 15:32 |
| lcuk | if symbian is open source, can it be built for maemo/meego? | 15:32 |
| mtnbkr | SpeedEvil: "just about all" 1659 of 1662 Or soemthing like that | 15:33 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: you connected a dvd drive to your n900? :O | 15:33 |
| * kerio is impressed | 15:34 | |
| MohammadAG | kerio, you're a bit late, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDzUG-bno6Q :P | 15:34 |
| kerio | meh, 1 day | 15:34 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, probably, it works on a beagleboard | 15:34 |
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| lcuk | cool | 15:34 |
| kerio | also eew it lags so much | 15:34 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, or was it you that suggested to use dar? | 15:35 |
| Termana | lcuk, I hope you meant for the N900, not maemo/meego... | 15:35 |
| lcuk | Termana, well meego considers much more than just n900 so, no i don't just mean n900 | 15:35 |
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| MohammadAG | kerio, mplayer! | 15:36 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, dar? | 15:36 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, should work fine on OMAP2/3 :) | 15:36 |
| Termana | lcuk, let me make sure I'm getting you're question straight then | 15:36 |
| MohammadAG | you could probably port it to the N810 | 15:36 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, disk archiver, for when it comes to restoring whole bunch of setups | 15:37 |
| MohammadAG | it'd suck, but still :) | 15:37 |
| Termana | lcuk, you're not asking to have Symbian build FOR MeeGo | 15:37 |
| Termana | are you? | 15:37 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, no, i would recommend using hte osso backup tool and stuff | 15:37 |
| Termana | built* | 15:37 |
| lcuk | Termana, i am asking if its possible | 15:37 |
| ccooke | Hmm. We're still not expecting a new meego phone until sometime mid next year, aren't we? | 15:37 |
| lcuk | whether some enterprising symbian developers actually want to is another matter | 15:38 |
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| MohammadAG | kerio, hence my question, any gstreamer based DVD decoders? | 15:38 |
| ccooke | (Afternoon :-) | 15:38 |
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| * MohammadAG attempted to port totem once, didn't work out well | 15:38 | |
| Termana | lcuk, jesus no. | 15:38 |
| kerio | dvd is just mpeg2, innit | 15:38 |
| ccooke | kerio: right. | 15:39 |
| lcuk | Termana, not your problem. if someone else wanted to its their problem, not yours. | 15:39 |
| kerio | with some libdvdcss | 15:39 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, idk, don't have a lot of DVDs, only 3 seasons of house | 15:39 |
| MohammadAG | I never checked how they work | 15:39 |
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| Termana | lcuk, no I meant in answer to your question | 15:39 |
| kerio | it's just mpeg2 | 15:39 |
| MohammadAG | but they need a custom mplayer (compiled with libdvdread-dev) | 15:39 |
| kerio | scambled | 15:39 |
| Termana | lcuk, the possibility of doing it. | 15:39 |
| kerio | yeah | 15:39 |
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| MohammadAG | I doubt the stock media player has libdvdread support | 15:39 |
| kerio | mpeg2 + drm | 15:39 |
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| ccooke | MohammadAG: It's a particular filesystem, with the streams in fixed-size .VOB files. That's basically just a container for mpeg2, but most DVDs are encrpted with CSS. | 15:40 |
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| ccooke | MohammadAG: also, note that libdvdread is just the ability to read mpeg2 data from a disk - knowing the file structure and putting all the stuff back together | 15:40 |
| ccooke | MohammadAG: libdvdcss is the decryption bit, and that's another library | 15:41 |
| kerio | yarr arr fiddle dee dee | 15:41 |
| Termana | kerio, being a pirate is alright to be | 15:41 |
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| Termana | kerio, do what you want cause a pirate is free, YOU ARE A PIRATE! | 15:41 |
| chem|st | Termana: aye | 15:42 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, not quite it, alot of personalised settings would go awol and lot of other misc debs not found in the usual repos would disappear with that normal osso-backup | 15:42 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, why are you not pushing those "random debs not in usual repos" into the usual repos | 15:43 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, because those random deps belongs to other devs who may not have any interest in putting them into the usual repos.. stuff like matan's 9 desktop hack | 15:44 |
| psycho_oreos | *sighs* I need to talk to the guy who suggested dar, I just had to reflash my firmware because of a stupid minor fuckup | 15:45 |
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| crashanddie_ | ccooke, libdecss? | 15:51 |
| ccooke | crashanddie_: libdvdcss | 15:51 |
| ccooke | is the usual one, but there've been a couple of other names for it | 15:52 |
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| uchadzodzuashvil | anyone has seen penguinbait | 15:54 |
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| ebzzry | ~seen penguinbait | 15:55 |
| infobot | penguinbait <~mlewis@Maemo/community/contributor/penguinbait> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 80d 20h 42m ago, saying: 'good, summer time here, spend lots of spare time outside ;)'. | 15:55 |
| * ebzzry sighs | 15:55 | |
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| iPeter- | Hi | 15:59 |
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| crashanddie_ | hey iPeter- | 15:59 |
| iPeter- | Could someone tell that application or what ever its called in statusbar to show cpu and ram usage | 15:59 |
| iPeter- | maemo 5 | 15:59 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, no more lagging, probably cause skype isn't in use, mplayer of course | 16:00 |
| crashanddie_ | iPeter-, load applet | 16:00 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, nice :) | 16:00 |
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| MohammadAG | lcuk, can I replace videos on youtube? | 16:00 |
| iPeter- | crashanddie_: Does it show cpu and ram usage next to clock? | 16:00 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, not that I know of, once its there its fixed url etc | 16:00 |
| crashanddie_ | MohammadAG, "There is currently no way to replace an old video with a new one and retain the original view count, comments or ratings. You'll have to start over with your newer video." | 16:01 |
| lcuk | if that was the case, everyone would post caat videos, get 10zillion views, then replace them with other things | 16:01 |
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| crashanddie_ | http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=58101 | 16:01 |
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| uchadzodzuashvil | anyone here knows about CUPS compilation for maemo | 16:02 |
| SpeedEvil | iPeter-: yes | 16:02 |
| uchadzodzuashvil | great... | 16:03 |
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| crashanddie_ | uchadzodzuashvil, this is not your personal help channel. Please don't feel offended if people don't answer your questions. | 16:03 |
| iPeter- | crashanddie_: I found that what i did seek, cpumem-applet | 16:04 |
| iPeter- | SpeedEvil: Does it show as percent or how? | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | iPeter-: two little bars | 16:04 |
| lcuk | uchadzodzuashvil, last time i heard anything about cups it was on n810 | 16:05 |
| lcuk | but have a look around the internet, i am sure someone has tried | 16:05 |
| iPeter- | okay, ill use cpumem-applet, coz it doesnt install any crap screenshot things to "dropdown" menu | 16:05 |
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| uchadzodzuashvil | ~seen penguinbait | 16:09 |
| infobot | penguinbait <~mlewis@Maemo/community/contributor/penguinbait> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 80d 20h 56m 14s ago, saying: 'good, summer time here, spend lots of spare time outside ;)'. | 16:09 |
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| uchadzodzuashvil | anyone has tried ARCHOS 70? | 16:15 |
| haltdef | ugh android | 16:16 |
| haltdef | x86 based tablet running win7 please :P | 16:16 |
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| haltdef | already have an ARM device running a mobile OS, why on earth would I want a second, bigger one also running a mobile OS | 16:16 |
| haltdef | I blame apple | 16:16 |
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| xkr47 | was it adam or eve who was lured by the snake? | 16:17 |
| alterego | xkr47: is that a serious question? | 16:17 |
| xkr47 | :D | 16:17 |
| xkr47 | no I'm just tired and preparing to go home from work.. | 16:18 |
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| MohammadAG | how do I suspend tracker? | 16:22 |
| RST38h | killall trackerd =) | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | I said suspend, not stop :P | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | stopped on its own heh | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | and with TV out, it's perfect :D | 16:25 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, ^ :) | 16:25 |
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| iPeter- | Hey, is it possible to change default application manager. I'd like to change my application manager to Faster application manager | 16:27 |
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| iPeter- | crashanddie_: I bet you know if it is possible. | 16:29 |
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| crashanddie_ | AFAIK, it's not. | 16:29 |
| crashanddie_ | but i'm not certain | 16:30 |
| chadi | hi.. do you guys know any app that warns me if i'm over a specific speed limit? | 16:30 |
| crashanddie_ | what, if you're downloading too fast? | 16:30 |
| chadi | err, I meant car speeding :P | 16:31 |
| iPeter- | :- D | 16:31 |
| crashanddie_ | there's a device called a "speedometer", it's fitted standard on all cars. | 16:31 |
| crashanddie_ | it's the little round thing (or digital display) | 16:31 |
| lcuk | some digital speedos have a high score table too | 16:31 |
| chadi | yea, but the km/h display is very small, so I can hardly see it, so i was wondering if there was an application that does a sound for example when i'm over 50km/h | 16:32 |
| lcuk | tho its always tricky to enter your initials | 16:32 |
| crashanddie_ | lcuk, gas gas gas gas gas gives you e? | 16:32 |
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| chadi | my car is american so it has the mph in big characters, the km/h are small | 16:32 |
| lcuk | :D | 16:32 |
| crashanddie_ | chadi, works a lot better if drive using the same counting system as what the roadsigns tell you. Well, i guess if it says "35" and you drive at 35kph, you'll never get a ticket, but still. | 16:33 |
| lcuk | my car actually has that sort of thing built in chadi | 16:33 |
| chadi | crashanddie_: 50km/h max in the city (beirut, lebanon) | 16:34 |
| lcuk | and because its got a digital dash, i can select kmph or mph for display *grin* | 16:34 |
| chadi | they started to implement that today :P | 16:34 |
| chadi | lcuk: that's a handy feature | 16:34 |
| lcuk | chadi, 31mph | 16:34 |
| lcuk | dont go over that speed | 16:34 |
| lcuk | or you will become a time traveller | 16:35 |
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| chadi | let's not change the topic :P | 16:35 |
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| jacekowski | well, here at 30mph limit you can do 35mphish | 16:35 |
| lcuk | chadi, i just solved your problem | 16:35 |
| lcuk | jacekowski, :) when your speedo is uncalibrated and can already be on the wrong side of the line at 30mph already, are you sure you want to take that risk | 16:36 |
| chadi | lcuk: i don't look at the speedometer | 16:36 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a legal requirement that the speedo under-reads if there is any error. | 16:37 |
| lcuk | chadi, i am glad I am not in your country | 16:37 |
| SpeedEvil | (assuming correct, properly inflated tires) | 16:37 |
| nidO | lcuk if your speedo is overreading it's illegal anyway, in the uk at least | 16:37 |
| SpeedEvil | (in the UK) | 16:37 |
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| lcuk | nidO, changing the wheels etc on the car and trye pressures even can shift the balance | 16:37 |
| jacekowski | lcuk: thing is that speedcameras here have 10% accuracy | 16:37 |
| chadi | haha we have none of these laws here :P | 16:38 |
| nidO | lcuk, regardless, if your speedo reads a slower speed than you're travelling at, it's illegal | 16:38 |
| jacekowski | lcuk: i mean on official calibration certificates | 16:38 |
| chem|st | lcuk: ducati... I know my gear and I hear the engine sound... and I would be crazy looking down to read my speedometer, thats just dangerous! | 16:38 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: well, are you able to tell if you are doing 28 or 32 | 16:38 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: I dont care I got no license plate up front! | 16:39 |
| nidO | and because a 100% accurate speedo is very difficult to do, this is precisely why every car manufacture purposefully calibrates speedos to overestimate your speed by a few % | 16:39 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: well, here in uk speed cameras make you photos from back | 16:39 |
| jacekowski | behind* | 16:39 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: I know | 16:39 |
| nidO | depends on the camera | 16:39 |
| jacekowski | well, average speed cameras are exception | 16:40 |
| nidO | average speed cameras and some ir-based gatsos will take photos from the front | 16:40 |
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| chem|st | well I can tell if I am above 50 or above 30 | 16:40 |
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| chem|st | as first gear a little turn on the gas is about 30 the same for 2nd gear and 50 | 16:41 |
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| chem|st | 2nd gear 30 is when I am cursing about the gear/rpm ratio of 2nd gear... | 16:44 |
| chem|st | s/gear\//speed/ | 16:45 |
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| dneary | Hi all | 16:45 |
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| luke-jr_ | how many states actually have laws enforcing speeding cams? | 16:51 |
| luke-jr_ | last I heard, most require you to be ticketted on the spot | 16:51 |
| luke-jr_ | and mailed tickets are unenforcable | 16:52 |
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| ScribbleJ | Used GUI SDK installer on fresh install of Ubuntu.... twice... it core dumps. Has anyone tried a fresh install of a recent version? | 16:55 |
| MohammadAG | ScribbleJ, use the scripts | 16:57 |
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| MohammadAG | also, does anyone know how the f fcam detects kernel version at bootup? | 16:57 |
| ScribbleJ | I did use the script. There' a .py you can download that is supposed to be the preferred install method that provides a GUI installer. | 16:58 |
| ScribbleJ | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/5.0/maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py This script. | 16:58 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: why it would detect kernel version? | 16:58 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, it builds modules for both power and omap1 | 16:58 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: it's probably checking if certain ioctl fails | 16:59 |
| jacekowski | very unlikely | 16:59 |
| jacekowski | there is no gcc on a phone | 16:59 |
| jacekowski | and fcam doesn't depend on it | 16:59 |
| MohammadAG | err, fcam-drivers | 16:59 |
| jacekowski | fcam-drivers as well | 16:59 |
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| MohammadAG | I have the source open in front of me, it has modules twice | 16:59 |
| MohammadAG | once for "vanilla" and once for "power" | 17:00 |
| kerio | that sounds like a bad design choice | 17:00 |
| kerio | what does debian do wrt kernel modules? | 17:01 |
| jacekowski | nah | 17:01 |
| jacekowski | modules are built before | 17:01 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: download binary package | 17:02 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, I know, I want to add support for a third kernel | 17:02 |
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| jacekowski | take a look at /usr/share/fcam/fcam.conf | 17:03 |
| jacekowski | install fcam-vanilla /sbin/insmod /usr/share/fcam/isp-mod.ko && /sbin/insmod /usr/share/fcam/omap34xxcam-mod.ko && .... | 17:03 |
| jacekowski | and next line | 17:03 |
| jacekowski | install fcam-power /sbin/insmod /usr/share/fcam/power/isp-mod.ko && /sbin/insmod /usr/share/fcam/power/omap34xxcam-mod.ko && ..... | 17:04 |
| jacekowski | it's just trying to load all of them | 17:04 |
| MohammadAG | sigh, that's kinda.. stupid | 17:04 |
| jacekowski | why | 17:04 |
| jacekowski | it works | 17:04 |
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| ScribbleJ | There used to be a VM with the full SDK preinstalled. Is there still one of those available anywhere, since the .py installer doesn't produce a working environment in a fresh VM I've created myself? | 17:09 |
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| ScribbleJ | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php The one here doesn't include the "Desktop" version which has the full SDK (the "Server" version has never included the full SDK) | 17:10 |
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| jacekowski | MohammadAG: you know something about new fmtxd | 17:13 |
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| MohammadAG | jacekowski, hmm? | 17:16 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: what they changed? | 17:16 |
| MohammadAG | nope | 17:17 |
| jacekowski | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=855742&postcount=236 | 17:17 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, kernel sources, not fmtxd | 17:17 |
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| jacekowski | yeah | 17:18 |
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| MohammadAG | they added a power lock, PaulFertser explained that | 17:20 |
| MohammadAG | I simply compiled 1.2's sources against 1.3's headerss | 17:20 |
| * MohammadAG sighs at double s | 17:20 | |
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| * SpeedEvil realises MohammadAG is really gollum. | 17:21 | |
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| kerio | my precioussssssssssss | 17:21 |
| jacekowski | i'm trying to find that code | 17:22 |
| jacekowski | and i can't | 17:22 |
| MohammadAG | power lock? | 17:22 |
| MohammadAG | sec | 17:22 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, lolwut | 17:22 |
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| jacekowski | ah | 17:23 |
| jacekowski | nvm | 17:23 |
| jacekowski | found it | 17:23 |
| MohammadAG | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=h-e-n;a=blob;f=drivers/media/radio/radio-si4713.c;h=dc2cea1b8a0d4bc471140befda5d2c7584919803;hb=a2abd51199b9e61542a24ae9086ac1c6263106c4#l189 | 17:25 |
| MohammadAG | k | 17:25 |
| jacekowski | cunts | 17:26 |
| crashanddie_ | jacekowski, stfu | 17:26 |
| d1b | wtf? | 17:26 |
| crashanddie_ | d1b, don't worry, jacekowski is a bit of a retard, he has a non-obvious case of tourettes sometimes | 17:27 |
| d1b | ok... | 17:28 |
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| crashanddie_ | he knows he'll be banned again if he keeps this up | 17:28 |
| xDaReaperx | Hi | 17:28 |
| jacekowski | and unbanned within couple minutes | 17:28 |
| d1b | .. | 17:28 |
| crashanddie_ | jacekowski, you really want to try that? | 17:29 |
| jacekowski | tempting | 17:29 |
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| * SpeedEvil cues up the 'Do you feel lucky' speech. | 17:30 | |
| alterego | Heh | 17:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://xkcd.com/692/ | 17:31 |
| crashanddie_ | is that the rainman one? | 17:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 17:32 |
| Yoe | hi -- anyone know of a way to connect the n900 calendar application to a CalDAV server? | 17:33 |
| jacekowski | wow | 17:34 |
| jacekowski | http://re-eject.gbadev.org/files/armref.pdf | 17:34 |
| ccooke | Yoe: external sync apps are about it, I'm afraid | 17:34 |
| jacekowski | i finally found full usable opcode list | 17:34 |
| Yoe | ccooke: that's fine, but I can't find it; that's what I'm looking for | 17:34 |
| crashanddie_ | jacekowski, holy cow, is that a reference for ARM assembly? | 17:35 |
| Yoe | crashanddie_: a quick reference, perhaps | 17:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Arm assembly is easy. | 17:36 |
| Yoe | not very useful, it doesn't list the side effects | 17:36 |
| Yoe | at least not all of them | 17:36 |
| SpeedEvil | 'The wristbone's connected to the elbow bone. The elbow bone's connected to the shoulder bone'... | 17:36 |
| * MohammadAG uploads youtube-dl | 17:39 | |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | does anyone know how to enable flash in opera mobile for maemo? | 17:48 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | Or does opera mobile not support flash at all? | 17:48 |
| jacekowski | i think it's in settings | 17:50 |
| jacekowski | plugin support | 17:50 |
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| chadi | how do right click in easy debian LXDE? tried a long click, it failed | 17:52 |
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| lolcat | Hello | 17:56 |
| lolcat | What basic things do my maemo need? | 17:56 |
| MohammadAG | ohai | 17:56 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | lolcat: depends on what you want it to do =) | 17:57 |
| lolcat | Uhm | 17:57 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | lolcat: the additional codec package is something you might need | 17:57 |
| lolcat | I guess I need the linux thing, openttd, a nintendo 64 emulator | 17:57 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | for flac and some other stuff | 17:57 |
| lolcat | Yeah, I like codecs | 17:57 |
| lolcat | Can I get vlc without beeing in desktop mode? | 17:58 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | lolcat: there's one in extras-devel mupen64plus, but it's not really usable yet | 17:58 |
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| lolcat | KaffeeJunky123: Can I use ps3 controllers for supernintendo emulators? | 17:58 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 17:58 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | lolcat: yes you can | 17:59 |
| lolcat | I guess that will have to do then. | 17:59 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | lolcat: you've to install the software for the ps3 controller though | 17:59 |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | lolcat: also if you're trying to play anything, try it without sound first, the sound on the current mupen64plus version for maemo isn't good | 17:59 |
| lolcat | Can I use the controller for anything? | 18:00 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | probably | 18:00 |
| lolcat | Like texting? | 18:00 |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | If you can controll the cursor with it, it might be possible to use the onscreen keyboard, but I'm not sure, I'm quite new to maemo | 18:01 |
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| lolcat | I have to say, maemo is the best. | 18:05 |
| lolcat | I just hope they make Meego with a real keyboard so I can try it too. | 18:05 |
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| lolcat | Does it run apache? | 18:07 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | it should | 18:08 |
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| lolcat | Mysql? | 18:08 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | but why would you want an apache websever on your mobile? | 18:08 |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | lolcat: it's a fullblown gnu/linux, as long as you get the dependencies, there's no problem | 18:09 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | lolcat: ofc gui applications won't just work on maemo, because of the whole hildon thing | 18:09 |
| lolcat | One more thing, can I playback movies using vlc? | 18:10 |
| lolcat | Without the desktop (it is slooow) | 18:10 |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | I don't know if there's a vlc version for maemo, you could search the downloads page on maemo.org for it | 18:11 |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | but maemo comes with a preinstalled media player that can playback movies | 18:12 |
| lolcat | But vlc is the holy grail of playback:P | 18:12 |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | I don't use vlc at all on my Debian Desktop | 18:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Stuff that does not use the DSP accellerated codecs han have _lots_ higher CPU usage | 18:13 |
| SouBE | I'm not still being offered PR1.3 OTA, why? | 18:13 |
| SpeedEvil | and hence battery | 18:13 |
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| aquatix | so, only way to run pr1.3 update without connecting to nokia suite was by initiating from a pc? | 18:16 |
| nidO | or by doing it ota. | 18:16 |
| sjk | is it safe to use apt-*? | 18:16 |
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| lolcat | I am updating to 20.2010.36-2 | 18:16 |
| aquatix | nidO: ota wants to do a backup, presumably through nokia suite? | 18:16 |
| nidO | no | 18:16 |
| aquatix | oh | 18:16 |
| nidO | the backup is through the backup app on the device called "backup" | 18:17 |
| aquatix | k :) | 18:17 |
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| SouBE | apt-get dist-upgrade offers 995 updated packages for me | 18:17 |
| aquatix | wonder why the description of the upgrade says it 'needs' the suite then | 18:17 |
| nidO | if your upgrade tells you it needs to go through pc suite its because you either dont have enough rootfs space or have an incompatible package, most likely libgles1 | 18:17 |
| lolcat | Should I do dist-upgrade? | 18:18 |
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| aquatix | how much rootfs space does it need, approx? | 18:18 |
| nidO | somewhere under 60mb | 18:18 |
| aquatix | ok | 18:18 |
| * aquatix will try this evening | 18:19 | |
| aquatix | it's my wife's phone, so i better make it work ;) | 18:19 |
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| lolcat | It has its own facebook app now? Oo | 18:23 |
| lolcat | I lost my stylus :( | 18:23 |
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| flexxxv | hi | 18:36 |
| flexxxv | I want to reflash my device and install all installed apllacations again after reflash | 18:37 |
| flexxxv | how do i do this the best? | 18:37 |
| RST38h | <yawn> | 18:37 |
| wmarone | flexxxv: make a backup, and after reflash re-add any repositories you were using then restore the backup | 18:38 |
| flexxxv | will it automatically reinstall all apss? | 18:38 |
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| flexxxv | will it install the right version? because some apps are from extras devel... | 18:39 |
| wmarone | which is why I said to re-add any repositories before restoring the back up | 18:39 |
| crashanddie_ | flexxxv, if you enable the correct repos, yes | 18:39 |
| flexxxv | hmm I haven't updatet all the apps to devel and I also don't ant this to be after restore... | 18:40 |
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| flexxxv | all contacts and conversation are stored in the backup,aren't they?Also the ones from other protocols like icq? how aboout email? | 18:42 |
| wmarone | yes | 18:42 |
| wmarone | though things like that are stored such that they won't be erased when you reflash | 18:43 |
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| flexxxv | calender is also backed up right? | 18:45 |
| crashanddie_ | calendar* | 18:46 |
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| RST38h | Ok, anything new andexciting tonight? | 18:46 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h, new CoD coming out | 18:46 |
| RST38h | CoD = ? | 18:46 |
| erani | call of duty: black ops | 18:47 |
| RST38h | ah | 18:47 |
| MohammadAG | when!? | 18:47 |
| erani | tomorrow | 18:47 |
| * RST38h goes back to playingMonopoly | 18:47 | |
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| RST38h | "Nokia take on Symbian governance, Symbian Foundation to retain only licensing" | 18:51 |
| * RST38h continues playing Monopoly =) | 18:51 | |
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| alterego | Anyone know what the name of the task switcher icon is for fullscreen apps? | 18:58 |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | are there any usable packet searching tools for apt on maemo? | 18:59 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | I mean for the shell | 18:59 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | like apt-file | 18:59 |
| SpeedEvil | aptitude | 18:59 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC there is | 18:59 |
| SpeedEvil | one of the other more basic apt-searchers is there also | 19:00 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | SpeedEvil: I tried to install aptitude already, said it's referenced by a package but not installable | 19:00 |
| SpeedEvil | apt-cache search? | 19:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I forget | 19:00 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | I'll try that one | 19:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | yeah - that | 19:00 |
| SpeedEvil | search - Search the package list for a regex pattern | 19:00 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | posix regex? | 19:01 |
| lcuk | most single keyword searches work to reduce the problem to just a handful | 19:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I have not personally verified the sort of regex | 19:02 |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | it seems to use * for any symbol | 19:02 |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | instead of . | 19:02 |
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| lcuk | "apt-cache search stuff" is normally enough :P | 19:03 |
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| opdf2 | how to restart proximityd? | 19:04 |
| MohammadAG | stop proximityd; start proximityd? | 19:04 |
| * MohammadAG would add a sleep in between | 19:04 | |
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| arkenoi | well, once again: | 19:13 |
| arkenoi | anyone is willing to add zRTP support to gstreamer, OTR to telepathy and GPG to modest? I know some people who would like to provide some sponsorship for the project | 19:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | post on maemo0-devel? | 19:16 |
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| flexxxv | can I install the openssh server in a way that it doesn't run permanently in background? | 19:34 |
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| mgedmin | hm | 19:35 |
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| mgedmin | you'd have to remove /etc/event.d/openssh-server | 19:35 |
| * mgedmin checks if he got the filename right | 19:35 | |
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| slonopotamus | flexxxv: inetd | 19:35 |
| RST38h | rename,not remove | 19:35 |
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| cehteh | sometimes i really miss a fax solution on the n900 :P | 19:37 |
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| cehteh | well is it even possible to send fax over gsm? | 19:38 |
| flexxxv | and how do i start afterrneming sshd? just type ssshd on command line?? | 19:38 |
| kerio | hmm... what could cause constant disconnections of the cellmo with an unofficial battery that don't happen with the official one? | 19:38 |
| kerio | power loss? | 19:38 |
| kerio | the rest of the system is fine | 19:38 |
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| cehteh | kerio: not enough amperes .. voltage drops | 19:39 |
| cehteh | must be a really cheap battery :P | 19:39 |
| * MohammadAG curses maemo | 19:39 | |
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| * cehteh has a 10Eur battery which works as good at the original | 19:39 | |
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| kerio | cehteh: when did you buy it? | 19:40 |
| cehteh | about half a year ago, but rarely use it | 19:40 |
| kerio | >no shit | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: yes | 19:41 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: there is a special fax mode. | 19:41 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: It's a variant of CSD IIRC | 19:41 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: but not supported on the n900 or at least has no frontend i guess | 19:41 |
| lolcat | Does the bluetooth dialuper allow me to leech of other peoples phones internet connection? | 19:41 |
| lolcat | cehteh: Dealxtreme? | 19:42 |
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| cehteh | lolcat: local 2nd (cough) hand handy shop here ... | 19:42 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: yes | 19:42 |
| MohammadAG | can anyone explain why this code doesn't work http://pastebin.com/695aGMru | 19:42 |
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| MohammadAG | I can only blame Maemo | 19:42 |
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| ieatlint | are you running it as root? | 19:44 |
| cehteh | lolcat: as always i recommend to buy cheap batteries which dont fake nokia but try to establish their own brand, they have at least a little credentiability to loose | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | I made the code, I obviously know it's supposed to be run as root :) | 19:44 |
| cehteh | mine is "X-Power, made in PRC" ... | 19:44 |
| ieatlint | just checking :P | 19:45 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 19:45 |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | mupen64plus makes me rage... | 19:45 |
| slonopotamus | how i compare two package version strings for ><=? | 19:45 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | I've to kill it through an ssh session | 19:45 |
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| ieatlint | i'm wondering how qfilesystemwatcher works... perhaps it doesn't work on /sys "files"? | 19:46 |
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| slonopotamus | found it | 19:47 |
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| slonopotamus | ieatlint: why you think it doesn't? | 19:48 |
| cehteh | MohammadAG: btw does the usb-hostmode work with the power kernel? | 19:48 |
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| BCMM_ | how many modified version of hildon desktop are around now? | 19:49 |
| ieatlint | got to run in 2 secs... but as i'm not at all sure how it works, it was merely a theory.. as it's not a normal file, i could see it being an issue, but i have no real evidence to think otherwise | 19:49 |
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| lcuk | BCMM_, at least 4-5 distinct patchsets | 19:49 |
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| BCMM_ | lcuk: current ones that work with 1.3 and all? | 19:50 |
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| BCMM_ | is there a wiki page or something summarising all of them? | 19:50 |
| lcuk | status unknown, just what I know - they should be submitted as merge requests and cleaned up into one combined best of community branch | 19:50 |
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| lcuk | something that will work well without breaking peoples systems. ie - the 9 desktops tweak - that should be configurable, but come on by default with 4 still | 19:51 |
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| BCMM_ | the only one that seems to turn up much in searches is Mattan's | 19:51 |
| lcuk | thp has hacks, MohammadAG has done some backports, theres numerous branchsets cloned from the gitorious one, some of which may reveal other branches and thought processes | 19:52 |
| BCMM_ | but MohammadAG has one too, right? | 19:53 |
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| BCMM_ | oh, you beat me too it while i was on a different window | 19:53 |
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| BCMM_ | sorry MohammadAG, we'll stop highlighting your nick now | 19:53 |
| * MohammadAG isn't bothered | 19:53 | |
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| BCMM_ | anyway, anyone know if there are any other than Mattan's which do the "alt-tab" thing? | 19:54 |
| slonopotamus | so. anyone ported diablo patches on top of 2.6.22? | 19:56 |
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| slonopotamus | i don't care about newer kernels right now. | 19:56 |
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| flexxxv | hmm after reflash there are still some packages in the package manager installed?! How this? | 19:57 |
| flexxxv | (old packages) | 19:57 |
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| slonopotamus | define "old" | 19:57 |
| flexxxv | I mean packages that were installed before the reflash | 19:58 |
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| flexxxv | like fmtx faker | 19:58 |
| slonopotamus | did you run restore-from-backup? afaik, it installs programs back, no? | 19:59 |
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| flexxxv | i didn't used the backup yet | 19:59 |
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| slonopotamus | are you sure you reflashed it? :) | 20:00 |
| flexxxv | yeah | 20:00 |
| flexxxv | Finishing flashing... done | 20:01 |
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| flexxxv | and just a few apps | 20:01 |
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| MohammadAG | test and vote, it's not my script, but it is useful to ditch flash ;) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/youtube-dl/2010.10.24-maemo0/ | 20:01 |
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| slonopotamus | MohammadAG: i'd prefer html5 support :P | 20:02 |
| nidO | slightly offtopic question, anyone have any experience with running adwords ad campaigns? | 20:03 |
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| jacekowski | 1i'm trying to understand what they done to fmtxd and everything around it | 20:03 |
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| flexxxv | is it normal that some libqtm* libaries are at the app manager (there where I can select apps I would like to uninstall) after reflash? | 20:04 |
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| jacekowski | and it looks like they shot themselves in a foot | 20:04 |
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| jacekowski | i mean once power level is set it will stay at same level | 20:04 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, yeah, it's locked to the new value | 20:05 |
| MohammadAG | so you can't lower it :P | 20:05 |
| jacekowski | so just simple echo 120 > /sys/wherever/level | 20:05 |
| jacekowski | and then echo 1 > /sys/wherever/lock | 20:05 |
| jacekowski | in init scripts | 20:05 |
| MohammadAG | or change fmtx'd value to 120, and it gets locked to it | 20:06 |
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| jacekowski | that's amazing | 20:06 |
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| jacekowski | i don't get why they changed it at all | 20:07 |
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| MohammadAG | jacekowski, how do you change fmtxd anyways? | 20:08 |
| MohammadAG | hex? | 20:08 |
| RST38h | nid0: Generally ineffective at the amount of spending you can afford. | 20:08 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: sort o | 20:09 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: disassembler to understand what is where | 20:09 |
| nidO | RST38h: I only technically actually need one ad to show up once for one person | 20:09 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: and then winhex to modify it | 20:09 |
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| jacekowski | MohammadAG: i could try to compile disassembler listing but it's not worth the effort | 20:09 |
| MohammadAG | and how do you disassemble it? | 20:09 |
| jacekowski | with a disassembler | 20:10 |
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| jacekowski | MohammadAG: i can give you some links if you are interested | 20:22 |
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| MohammadAG | jacekowski, hmm, I don't mind I guess | 20:22 |
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| BluesLee | DocScrutinizer: ping | 20:40 |
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| Gh0sty | anyone had the following problem already: | 20:46 |
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| Gh0sty | a couple of days ago I sent an sms, the receiver did not receive it, he tried to call me, got voicemail immediatly, on my phone I could see full cell reception but could not make outgoing calls either | 20:47 |
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| Gh0sty | after I rebooted my N900 the sms got sent and I got messages that people left voicemail ... | 20:47 |
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| hrzfl | are there different language localizations for the N810 and can I re-flash the device with a different localization than it was originally sold as? | 20:51 |
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| hrzfl | I doubt there was space for several languages, so there was probably different images for localization? | 20:53 |
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| mgedmin | hrzfl, the space for localizations is not much; a single image provides all of them | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | I'm not sure why there are several regional variations for images | 20:56 |
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| hrzfl | that's mean I could just reconfigure the current image for a different language without reflashing? | 20:56 |
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| mgedmin | there's language selection in Settings | 20:57 |
| hrzfl | I've not seen that option... I bought it in the US but now am back in Germany and would like to give it to one of my parents who doesn't speak/read English... | 20:57 |
| mgedmin | installing new languages, now I don't know how easy/hard that is | 20:57 |
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| mgedmin | German, I believe, is one of the supported languages | 20:58 |
| hrzfl | let me check again... I guess I just assumed localizations were not there as even man-pages are stripped | 20:59 |
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| hrzfl | oh :) | 20:59 |
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| hrzfl | ha, indeed! | 20:59 |
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| hrzfl | says it needs to restart, but... :) lets see | 20:59 |
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| hrzfl | mgedmin: ok, neat, thanks... guess I just assumed too much :) | 21:01 |
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| mgedmin | yay | 21:01 |
| Noobmonk3y | hmmmmmmmmmmm | 21:01 |
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| * javispedro does maniacal laughter | 21:21 | |
| * MohammadAG hands javispedro some pills | 21:22 | |
| javispedro | oh, Stskeeps did leave this channel. | 21:23 |
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| Noobmonk3y | javispedro: yup | 21:25 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, why? | 21:26 |
| javispedro | too many die-hard users in there I guess :) | 21:26 |
| * MohammadAG needs to wipe his eMMC, 400MBs left | 21:26 | |
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| Noobmonk3y_ | irc'ing whilst having my haircut...... i r geek.... | 21:28 |
| * javispedro does louder maniacal laughter | 21:28 | |
| MohammadAG | hehe | 21:28 |
| Noobmonk3y_ | mo, can see irc flashing on the pc, but cant get to it | 21:28 |
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| javispedro | where are those pills? | 21:28 |
| hrzfl | mgedmin: ha, but of course the applications like canola don't or mediabox don't honor it | 21:28 |
| * MohammadAG hands javispedro 42 pills | 21:29 | |
| Noobmonk3y_ | lol | 21:29 |
| MohammadAG | that's the answer to life | 21:29 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: seconds ago I just used 42 as a magic number | 21:29 |
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| Noobmonk3y_ | meh | 21:29 |
| mgedmin | hrzfl, not every app is translated, yes -- sad but true | 21:29 |
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| javispedro | MohammadAG: pkt.data.hello.ping = 42; :) | 21:29 |
| MohammadAG | 503.5M./FCamera | 21:29 |
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| MohammadAG | 836.8M./Flashing Files | 21:29 |
| MohammadAG | explains shit :P | 21:29 |
| mgedmin | in theory you could write the right .po files, compile them into .mo and drop them into /usr/share/locale/... | 21:29 |
| * MohammadAG thinks | 21:30 | |
| MohammadAG | do I really need PR1.0, 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 files on my N900? | 21:30 |
| * javispedro deleted them from his desktop | 21:30 | |
| javispedro | like if I am ever going to use PR1.0 | 21:30 |
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| MohammadAG | I went back to 1.0 after 1.2 tbh | 21:30 |
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| MohammadAG | was for about a day, to see the difference mainly | 21:30 |
| hrzfl | mgedmin: usually I don't see the point of translations... they're pretty often horrible :) but if the person doesn't speak english and is also kind of technophob... needs to be as easy as it gets | 21:31 |
| MohammadAG | vkb was win | 21:31 |
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| RST38h | helo javispedro | 21:34 |
| javispedro | hiya RST38h | 21:34 |
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| hrzfl | ok, thanks again, laters | 21:37 |
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| nox- | moin | 21:44 |
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| jacekowski | hmm | 21:58 |
| jacekowski | i've done something to my fmtxd | 21:58 |
| jacekowski | and it's not working now | 21:58 |
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| ZogG | frals, ping | 22:21 |
| frals | pong | 22:21 |
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| Nirtal | Hello! Does anyone know how to set up so I can use my computer(with mic and headphones) to make calls on my n900. Like using my computer as a headset? | 22:26 |
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| ZogG | frals never mind, added russian translations. btw as i assume removing setting is switching to default right? | 22:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: ping | 22:29 |
| marks256 | i'm trying to download the virtual sdk image from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php, but there aren't any available (except the intrepid server, which is useless?) am i doing something wrong? | 22:30 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer bingo | 22:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: any notion regarding NB#161191 ? (CPU @ 500 while charging) | 22:30 |
| frals | ZogG: removing settings means all fmms/mms connection settings are removed | 22:30 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: about 500Mhz egoshin knows; about why not C3.. no idea. | 22:31 |
| ZogG | frals oh - so i translated right, as i thought it would be setting to default settings | 22:31 |
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| ZogG | frals, translated it as removed though | 22:31 |
| frals | cheers :) | 22:31 |
| marks256 | is there an alternate download site for the SDK VM? There are no torret seeds :( | 22:31 |
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| ZogG | and other options whent to default settings as - cause reset settings sounds wierd in russian | 22:31 |
| PaulFertser | javispedro: the related patch for pr1.3 seems bogus. This all area (charging detection etc) is so messy that it's hardly understandable. Very messy, very stupid. We'd like to know wth they were fixing by that patch. | 22:32 |
| ZogG | RST38h, you can translated too you know, my russian is not that good =\ | 22:32 |
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| javispedro | PaulFertser: 100% agreed. I actually made a similar statement yesterday :) | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: should we revert https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=h-e-n;a=blobdiff;f=drivers/usb/musb/musb_core.c;h=6cb7d13fdf067c95ff943ae0326598a9ef6f9d6f;hp=6adab83d7948b98b7d9fece2c921f94b8965a25a;hb=a2abd51199b9e61542a24ae9086ac1c6263106c4;hpb=a78d411c6518eb7dd038eef6668f78a7e6c14ec4 ? | 22:32 |
| PaulFertser | javispedro: can we somehow read NB#161191 ? | 22:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | andre__: can you help? | 22:34 |
| javispedro | heh. | 22:34 |
| javispedro | was also to going to ping him :) | 22:34 |
| marks256 | Every website i come across dealing with the Maemo SDK VM says i have to visit http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php to download the image, but it's simply not there | 22:34 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer, javispedro: the bug description internally for the bug that was "fixed" by that patch is: "N900 does not properly support charging downstream port as is specified in USB charging standard. (port that supports VBUS current > 500mA, for example a hub that has an external power). When it is connected to a CDP port it recognises it as a dedicated charger and the data connection is not established at all. This detection is made b | 22:35 |
| andre__ | y the HW. SW support is needed to make the data connection." | 22:35 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: yeah, thats what I would revert. | 22:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | andre__: thanks very much. Sounds odd / invalid though | 22:36 |
| PaulFertser | andre__: big thanks. | 22:37 |
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| marks256 | i guess i'll just have to build my own test environment. | 22:37 |
| andre__ | no problem. I like interpreting my NDA. :-P | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | and for sure above mentioned/linked patch is targeted to this but actually completely missed the target, and introduces even more madness | 22:37 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: think a bit about it -- so they want to keep data connection alive even if charger detection runs | 22:38 |
| javispedro | do not really understand the reasoning about that exactly, | 22:38 |
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| javispedro | but it evokes the actual problem: that acting as a gadget locks cpu to 500Mhz. | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | me neizher, but I know it can't work :-P | 22:38 |
| PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i'm not sure it actually misses the target. Probably it works like advertised, but that 500MHz on wallcharger is just a side effect -- it keeps the SoC ready in case it's not a charger but a CDP :) | 22:38 |
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| javispedro | PaulFertser: do you happen to know if CPU awake is absolutely required for proper gadget operation? | 22:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: hmm, possible. But then howTF will they deal with chargers that are actually standard USB hosts that can't supply >500 ? | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp when host is maybe suspended or sth | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | also charger detection definitely breaks data bus | 22:41 |
| PaulFertser | javispedro: no idea here, sorry. | 22:41 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: this entire issue comes because they reset the connection after charger detection no mather if char detectected or not | 22:41 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: previously I guess they left it broken | 22:42 |
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| javispedro | when charger was detected | 22:42 |
| * javispedro should try to stop making up words | 22:42 | |
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| RST38h | ZogG: ? Translate what? | 22:43 |
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| * RST38h has been doing something else and not watching this window | 22:43 | |
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| ZogG | RST38h apps | 22:45 |
| ZogG | anyway night | 22:45 |
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| RST38h | ZogG: Why translate> | 22:45 |
| PaulFertser | Heh, does anyone here has Charging Downstream Port or ever used one? | 22:46 |
| ZogG | RST38h to help | 22:46 |
| RST38h | ZogG: Anyone who cannot learn a dozen of English words is probably not worth programming for | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I vote for reverting this patch. 1) I don't know a single ticket or report that would need this for fixing 2) it introduces quite some ugly behaviour and potential hw threats. 3) odds are it's broken/not working anyway for the intended "fix" | 22:46 |
| ZogG | i use english locale on all phones and computers but not everyone does | 22:46 |
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| PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: +1 | 22:47 |
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| ZogG | RST38h you can say as well who can't program that app for himself doesn't worth it, and who does — doesn't need it | 22:47 |
| RST38h | ZogG: Same here, not using Russian on any of the devices in the house | 22:47 |
| ZogG | RST38h but still it would be nice to help people | 22:48 |
| PaulFertser | LC_MESSAGES=C ftw | 22:48 |
| RST38h | ZogG: every time I see localized device (e.g. Windows) I cannot figure out WHAT the hell they mean by this or that word | 22:48 |
| ZogG | even if they know language it would be nice to have native language in all apps and not a mess | 22:48 |
| ZogG | RST38h me too - but eveyone choose what they want | 22:48 |
| RST38h | ZogG: Naah, too many people, can't help 'em all, can just as well limit yourself to your family, then friends, then people you like | 22:48 |
| RST38h | ZogG: [which is usually a finite,countable set] | 22:49 |
| RST38h | The rest can go to t.m.o and bitch there. | 22:49 |
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| ZogG | anyway night | 22:50 |
| * ZogG xmms2> Erykah Badu - In Love With You ["Mama's Gun" 2000] | 22:50 | |
| ZogG | RST38h they can' as they don't know english =) | 22:50 |
| RST38h | ZogG: Good! Less noise. | 22:50 |
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| PaulFertser | RST38h: this last statement of yours is surprisingly the same i thought. | 22:52 |
| RST38h | In related news: TSA Bans Toner and Ink Cartridges On Planes | 22:53 |
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| crashanddie | old news | 22:55 |
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| RST38h | Will probably ban dogs too... | 22:55 |
| crashanddie | are dogs even allowed? | 22:56 |
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| RST38h | yes, in the luggage compartment, caged | 22:56 |
| tripzero | or under the seat caged | 22:57 |
| tripzero | if it's a small dog | 22:57 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, why? | 22:57 |
| tripzero | "TSA bans bubblegum on planes" | 22:58 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: Some Afghans tried sending expliosive-stuffed dogs to US by plane | 22:58 |
| MohammadAG | no, the ink part | 22:58 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Same, but with inkcartirgdes and Yemen | 22:58 |
| MohammadAG | might as well ban people | 22:59 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: right | 22:59 |
| tripzero | apparently TSA executives saw that episode of McGuyver where he brought down two apache helicopters with a stick of bublegum and a paperclip | 22:59 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Next time you go to .PA, plant an idea to smuggle explosives onto planes rectally | 22:59 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: I am sure TSA reaction will deliver millions of lulz worldwide | 23:00 |
| crashanddie | just equip cops with pigs blood | 23:00 |
| cehteh | fsck .. hostmode flashes its own kernel without ext4 support | 23:00 |
| crashanddie | if suicide bomber kills himself, spray the remains with pigs blood | 23:00 |
| cehteh | how do i flash the power kernel back :P | 23:00 |
| crashanddie | contaminated remains, guy doesn't get his virgins | 23:00 |
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| MohammadAG | cehteh, lies, I compiled it with EXT4_FS | 23:00 |
| cehteh | doesnt mount my FS's | 23:00 |
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| MohammadAG | modprobe? | 23:01 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Easily avoidable with clarification from a prominent cleric | 23:01 |
| MohammadAG | CONFIG_EXT4_FS=m | 23:01 |
| MohammadAG | it's a module | 23:01 |
| cehteh | ah | 23:01 |
| MohammadAG | modprobe ext4 | 23:01 |
| cehteh | fsck :) | 23:01 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: there is no prominent cleric in Islam. There is no "pope" | 23:01 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Something along the lines of your empty shell not beingof any interest to Allah | 23:01 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: As far as I know, Islam is similar to Judaism in this sense | 23:02 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: actually, uncontaminated remains are the cornerstone of islam | 23:02 |
| cehteh | MohammadAG: on what kernel is that based? pr1.3 or titans? | 23:02 |
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| crashanddie | which is also related to the don't drink alcohol, don't eat pigs | 23:02 |
| MohammadAG | cehteh, custom 1.3 | 23:02 |
| cehteh | ok | 23:02 |
| MohammadAG | cehteh, building a kernel-power based one right, not sure if it'll work | 23:02 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: I.e. there are highly respected religious leaders who can make judgements in religious matters | 23:02 |
| cehteh | yes please :) | 23:02 |
| crashanddie | we're getting slightly offtopic though | 23:03 |
| MohammadAG | let's talk about dolphins | 23:03 |
| crashanddie | penguins | 23:03 |
| crashanddie | then we can claim to be on-topic | 23:03 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: anyways, pig blood will not work as apermanentsolution | 23:03 |
| MohammadAG | hybrids | 23:03 |
| crashanddie | pongphins | 23:03 |
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| RST38h | crashanddie: bring in the anal probes and forced x-rays instead! | 23:03 |
| RST38h | (or just ban people, as Mohammad says, makes sense) | 23:03 |
| cehteh | MohammadAG: btw what happens when one turns hostmode on while on charger? | 23:04 |
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| RST38h | cehteh: boom? | 23:04 |
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| cehteh | yeah .. i wondering about that | 23:04 |
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| cehteh | just melt without boom would be bad enough | 23:04 |
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| MohammadAG | cehteh, you can't | 23:04 |
| cehteh | MohammadAG: and ehn | 23:04 |
| MohammadAG | cehteh, bme is stopped right when the app is started | 23:05 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: A dolhphin! | 23:05 |
| cehteh | when plugging in charger with hostmode on? | 23:05 |
| MohammadAG | it won't charge, as simple as that | 23:05 |
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| cehteh | MohammadAG: well still power on the pins then | 23:05 |
| cehteh | ok | 23:05 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, will probably know more though | 23:05 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: The big question is, will it burn, blow up, or something? | 23:05 |
| alterego | I'm starting to get that desease again .. | 23:05 |
| cehteh | haha | 23:05 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, it will end the world | 23:06 |
| * cehteh wonders if he really needs hostmode ... | 23:06 | |
| alterego | Where I over engineer and lose sight of pragmatism. | 23:06 |
| * MohammadAG gives alterego 42 pills | 23:06 | |
| RST38h | Mohammad: For my N900, at least? | 23:06 |
| cehteh | what happens when i plug my n900 into the LHC remote console? :) | 23:06 |
| RST38h | depends on which end you plug it with | 23:06 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, no, for all of us | 23:06 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: you are tempting me. | 23:07 |
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| RST38h | cehteh: if you plug it with the audio jack, the LHC intercom will start playing music | 23:07 |
| cehteh | damit busybox / module utilities dont respect /etc/modules on the device .. can someone kick nokiaans into the balls? | 23:07 |
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| MohammadAG | cehteh, [ 9556.279510] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI removable disk | 23:07 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: this happens: http://imm.io/1ZjL | 23:07 |
| MohammadAG | Nokia-N900:~# uname -r | 23:07 |
| MohammadAG | 2.6.28.10power40 | 23:07 |
| MohammadAG | happy? | 23:07 |
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| cehteh | MohammadAG: it works, ship it! | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG | I will, outside the UI for now | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG | you'll have to install it manually | 23:08 |
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| crashanddie | MohammadAG: check that link :P | 23:08 |
| cehteh | hehe | 23:08 |
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| MohammadAG | LOL | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG | seriously though, is that photoshopped? :P | 23:09 |
| cehteh | is that shopped or some real thing (inlet for a powerhouse or whatever?) | 23:09 |
| RST38h | No | 23:09 |
| crashanddie | dunno, I just modified it quickly, it usually comes with the "you divided by zero, didn't you?" | 23:09 |
| cehteh | where is that? | 23:09 |
| RST38h | Any place with a cascade of lakes that have pipes connecting them | 23:09 |
| RST38h | (yes, it usually means the lakes are artificial) | 23:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: wtf? | 23:10 |
| cehteh | the rock formation in the back look like limestone/karst ... might be plausible | 23:10 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: wtwhat? | 23:10 |
| crashanddie | did you just insult DocScrutinizer of being a twat with a handful of gummybears in your mouth>? | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: go play with matan. | 23:11 |
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| cehteh | ah .. ext4 is loaded ... but filesystems are not mounted .. so possibly it processes /etc/modules after rcS-late | 23:11 |
| cehteh | fsck! | 23:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: on a serious note - what should happen when you apply 5V to 5V? the worst thing of plugging in Nokia wallcharger to hostmode is you're shorting D+/- and that will probably confuse the RX | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: do you really think I'd publish something that could damage your device, without even mentioning that threat | 23:14 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: iff charger and n900 provide exactly 5v .. if there is a difference, then current flows .. in whatever direction, dunno how well the charger is regulated and all the crap around | 23:14 |
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| dRbiG | and most probably there'll be some difference | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what? both devices are built to deliver flowing current | 23:15 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: well no, i suspected it reasonable safe .. but just be cautionous and want to be sure | 23:15 |
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| cehteh | better safe than sorry | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 23:16 |
| dRbiG | indeed | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, I'm in matan-bashing mood still | 23:16 |
| cehteh | :) | 23:16 |
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| dRbiG | anyway - if the hostmode works will other stuff work beside mass storage devices? | 23:17 |
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| MohammadAG | duh :P | 23:17 |
| MohammadAG | as long as there are no drivers limitations (and power limits, can be overcame with a hub), then anything should work | 23:17 |
| dRbiG | my guess here is that once low-level usb stuff works getting devices to work is just getting drivers | 23:18 |
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| cehteh | well .. i still have problems mounting my ext4 partitions .. now added "/sbin/modprobe ext4" directly to rcS-late | 23:18 |
| dRbiG | as i thought, very good | 23:18 |
| dRbiG | can't wait to plug my usb joypad :D | 23:18 |
| MohammadAG | I'm just pissed at Matan being an asshole in everything I'm involved in | 23:18 |
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| MohammadAG | dRbiG, thp got a joypad working | 23:18 |
| cehteh | ah | 23:18 |
| cehteh | [ 15.530029] EXT4-fs: mmcblk1p1: Filesystem with huge files cannot be mounted read-write without CONFIG_LSF. | 23:18 |
| cehteh | [ 16.146148] EXT4-fs: mmcblk0p1: Filesystem with huge files cannot be mounted read-write without CONFIG_LSF. | 23:18 |
| cehteh | MohammadAG: there is a missing kernel config! | 23:19 |
| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=867326&postcount=87 | 23:19 |
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| MohammadAG | cehteh, see latest post | 23:19 |
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| dRbiG | MohammadAG: great, so hid devices should be available too :) | 23:19 |
| dRbiG | real keyboard | 23:19 |
| dRbiG | ahh, future is bright :) | 23:19 |
| MohammadAG | cehteh, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/hostmode/Nov_08_2010/power40/ | 23:19 |
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| cehteh | looks like i am up to brick my device :P | 23:20 |
| MohammadAG | cehteh, wfm | 23:20 |
| cehteh | can you tell me a oneliner how to flash the kernel, i never did only that :) | 23:20 |
| dRbiG | and btw. is there any definite source for hostmode news and progress report? | 23:20 |
| MohammadAG | cehteh, dpkg -i all packages | 23:21 |
| MohammadAG | dRbiG, mailing lists | 23:21 |
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| MohammadAG | for end users, tmo or #maemo I suppose | 23:21 |
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| dRbiG | i'm willing to do beta testing and some lower-level technical notes could be useful too | 23:22 |
| dRbiG | i'll have a bit more spare time this week | 23:22 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer: who the hell is matan? | 23:22 |
| dRbiG | so why not give it a try | 23:22 |
| MohammadAG | see tmo then | 23:22 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, matan (n.) -> see asshole | 23:22 |
| MohammadAG | dRbiG, seriously, you missed the thread? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 | 23:23 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol | 23:23 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG: you mean this guy: "Matan aka CaD aka FrenchTwat@IRC" <matan@gmail.com>? | 23:23 |
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| dRbiG | MohammadAG: it seems that i did | 23:24 |
| dRbiG | catching up right now :) | 23:24 |
| RST38h | Hmm | 23:24 |
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| MohammadAG | lol crashanddie | 23:24 |
| MohammadAG | ~seen Matan | 23:24 |
| infobot | matan <530f167a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.15.22.122> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 53d 13h 31m 2s ago, saying: 'morning'. | 23:25 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=866343&postcount=15 him | 23:25 |
| cehteh | MohammadAG: thanks .. installed all .. is ext4 still a module? | 23:26 |
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| MohammadAG | cehteh, as per power40, not sure how that handled things | 23:26 |
| frals | wtb 2 votes http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/fmms/1.2.6/ :[ | 23:26 |
| cehteh | if you didnt changed it then it should be buildin | 23:26 |
| MohammadAG | frals, testing is dead | 23:26 |
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| * cehteh reboots | 23:26 | |
| MohammadAG | cehteh, only changed hostmode related lines | 23:27 |
| cehteh | ok | 23:27 |
| MohammadAG | cehteh, don't upgrade to the repos version, for obvious reasons | 23:28 |
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| cehteh | ok | 23:28 |
| cehteh | how long does it take to sink in? | 23:28 |
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| cehteh | ok works .. | 23:31 |
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| BCMM | what is the n900's screen refresh rate? | 23:49 |
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| Nirtal | Hello! Does anyone knows if it's possible to make calls from my computer though my n900. Using the computers headphones and mic to talk | 23:49 |
| cehteh | there is asterisk packaged for the n900 .. maybe that helps | 23:50 |
| koz4 | use sip protocol | 23:50 |
| cehteh | btw since 1.3 smartreflex seems to work reliable for me .. | 23:51 |
| cehteh | just for the record | 23:51 |
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| b-man` | hmm, i think i'm failing with this C book, the program that i wrote does exactly the opposite of what it was intended to do :X | 23:54 |
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| MohammadAG51 | cehteh, kernel-power is based on 1.2's kernel, for the record | 23:55 |
| nidO | displays "dlrow olleh"? | 23:55 |
| mikhas | nidO, :-D | 23:55 |
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| * MohammadAG51 s off | 23:55 | |
| cehteh | MohammadAG: i know, i suspect crashes before where from firmware blobs (gpu, dsp) | 23:55 |
| cehteh | at least i had no crash yet, before powerreflex crashed my device within minutes or maybe at least after few hours | 23:56 |
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