IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-10-23

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RST38hhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101022/ap_on_he_me/af_uganda_the_rot00:29
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intelinsiderfmms is strange :|00:31
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eraniI never actually received my train ticked I bought from our train company (they send ticket info via SMS and MMS with QR code)00:47
eraniwhen talking about fmms00:47
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nox-ew00:54
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lucchinihey guys  i got some stuck pixels and they are white, acording to google there is a way to fix them but i cant find a way for maemo01:06
lucchiniany app for n900?01:07
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jacekowskilucchini: all dead pixel fixes are like homeopathic drugs01:20
jacekowskilucchini: some claim that it works but no real scientific evidence01:21
alteregoright bedtime, g'night folks01:22
lucchinii readed that but they say when its white the chance is higher then when they are black01:23
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nidOstuck pixels can potentially be fixed depending on the reason for the stick. dead pixels are ofc dead, and cant01:25
lucchiniwell i dont know if its dead or stuck01:25
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lucchinithey say black is amalufunction transistor w/e01:26
lucchiniand as for white it may be stuck01:26
lucchinii just dont want to wait another 4 weeks for repair01:27
lucchininokia repairs sux01:27
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lucchiniit took me 3 rma's befor they finaly gamve me a other device01:27
lucchinithey dont test if it work when they fixed it01:28
jacekowskilucchini: white is a malfunction as well01:28
lucchinimy 1st devisce kept rebooting01:28
lucchiniitis??01:29
jacekowskithat's user problem01:29
lucchini humm01:29
jacekowskireboot loop01:29
jacekowskiyou just have to flash it01:29
lucchinino this is a replacement01:29
jacekowskiit's well known thing that if you break OS it will just go into endless reboot loop draining battery01:29
lucchiniflashing didnt help nokia care did that twice01:29
jacekowskiuntill it's so flat that you can't flash it01:29
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lucchiniit was like that when i bought it01:30
jacekowskihmm01:30
lucchiniso aftr 3 rma nokia desided to replace the devisce01:30
lucchini3x4weeks is alot01:31
lucchiniit all goes from the waranty01:31
lucchinidont want to send it again01:31
lucchinicuz i dont have a spare eighter01:32
jacekowskiiirc they have to replace/fix it within 14 days01:32
ieatlintthat's confusing... there's a maemo6 bluez plugin?01:32
lucchinimaby with youre country but here at the netherlands they wait til the truck is full01:33
lucchinithen they send it01:33
lucchinifor repair01:33
lucchinithats how nokia care is here01:33
lucchininormaly they can replace a display but this time not01:34
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lucchiniwell for most p.hones they can replace it within an hour01:34
lucchinimaby n900 is just to rare for them01:35
lucchinibut anyways i'd like to try out a pixel fixer first01:36
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ieatlinti hear snake oil can fix dead pixels01:40
ieatlinthaven't tried it myself, but have several friends who've had good luck with it01:40
lucchinisnake oil?01:41
ieatlintyeah, google it... it fixes all sorts of things01:42
lucchiniill try01:42
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lucchiniuhm how do i look it up01:43
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jsharperarg my n900's microphone just died after 11 months02:13
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jsharperplz tell me nokia usa's warr repair has a fast turnaround02:13
nox-didnt someone here just say he had to wait 4 weeks, three times?02:14
ShadowJK:)02:14
jsharperi think he was not in usa02:15
ShadowJKjsharper, dunno, test them, let everyone know how it goes02:15
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jsharperwill do02:15
jsharpermaybe ill get it back the day PR 1.3 or meego for n900 ships or something02:16
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ShadowJKHeh.02:18
ShadowJKMy N900 is in for repairs. Every day I have the feeling 1.3 will happen without me02:18
ShadowJK I think you'll have plenty of the same02:18
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javispedrofirst time ever I see the n900 enter emergency charging mode03:10
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Robot101what's emergency charging mode?03:11
javispedrothe charging chip feature where it will charge even when voltage is so low it can't boot03:11
Robot101some kind of crazy slow trickle charge?03:11
javispedroyep, up to a certain threshold. then it boots and proceeds to normal charge03:12
javispedrowhile it's doing this, led is steady yellow (not blinking) and power button does nothing03:12
Robot101fun - is your battery dying or something?03:12
nox-so you sucked you battery `more empty' that it should have been?03:12
nox-than it...03:13
javispedrothe issue (i guess) is that it just died on me (after a lot of low bat warnings), and I just quickly plugged it into the wal03:13
javispedro*wall charger03:13
nox-ah03:13
javispedrousually previous times it died on me I let it rest for a while, and seems the battery will recover some small charge..03:14
javispedro(for a while = commute time, etc.)03:14
nox-aah03:14
javispedronevertheless -- battery is clearly starting to show some age :(03:15
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javispedroit booted already :)03:16
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DocScrutinizerRobot101:05:08
DocScrutinizer~flatbat-recover05:08
DocScrutinizer~flatbatrecover05:08
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover05:08
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DocScrutinizerRobot101: emergency recover charging is an autonomous (non sw controlled) charging mode of bq24150 chip, where fastcharger detection is done in hw by 1707 USB PHY chip, and bq24150 is set to absolutely 'safe' power-on defaults like max 3.6V cell charging voltage and some rather low current limit. bq24150 also directly switches on red and green indicator LED to signil this mode with a steady amber ind light05:14
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javispedrowow05:15
javispedroarchlinux packaged a software of mine even before I started making tarballs or a homepage =)05:16
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DocScrutinizerhehehe05:16
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DocScrutinizerfor twinklephone sometimes bugreports for a new version came in before Michel managed to even announce it05:17
javispedroheh :)05:17
javispedro"benefits" of doing scm in public05:18
DocScrutinizerthere's obviously people actively polling the downloads page for new versions 4 times a day :-)05:18
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DocScrutinizernana, no scm05:19
javispedronighties?05:19
DocScrutinizerMichel always dumped a full tarball to the dl page05:19
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DocScrutinizerwhen he had finished preparing a new version05:19
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DocScrutinizerhttp://www.twinklephone.com/download05:20
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DocScrutinizertaadaaa, 400 karma :-D :-P05:36
DocScrutinizerwhatever it's worth for XP05:36
javispedrothese days...05:36
javispedroyou get free flash player 10!05:37
DocScrutinizer\o/05:37
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DocScrutinizerthough right now, for me that looks more like \o_05:40
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javispedroa reason to suicide: error: cannot run /usr/bin/vim: No such file or directory05:40
* DocScrutinizer wanders off to do his shoulder stretching05:41
javispedroahh, perl upgrade or sth on my behind. how nice.05:41
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* javispedro out too, cya.05:41
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TermanaIt would only be worth of suicide if it said - error: cannot run /usr/bin/emacs: No such file or directory05:42
Termanaworthy*05:43
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xDaReaperxHi06:03
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CreamyGhi06:05
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vdvdoes anybody know, how can i change type 5-8 symbols on the key if i use eight-level keyboard layout?06:16
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CreamyGagggh dont ever get gorilla glue on your hand :(07:28
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Danuguys , i dont get my dummy connection appeared when N900 asks to choose an internet connection ? what could be the reason08:43
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strcpyHi . I'm faced with a problem building armel packages in scratchbox. Not sure what`s the root of issue , but, dpkg-buildpackage generated deb. files contains no binary, while code compiles fine both for x86/ARM08:55
strcpyany hint where should I look for mistakes?08:56
DangerMausanyone know what the pkg name is for the ap that makes the phone buttons shily? i saw it last week but didnt have the phone on me at the time to snag it?08:57
DangerMaus*shiny08:57
DangerMausor like theme for the phone dialer08:58
DangerMausor what area it would be under i have been looking on and aff allday08:59
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strcpyDangerMaus, do you have any comments on my issue?09:00
DangerMausissue09:01
DangerMaushmmm09:01
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strcpygenerated .deb contains just doc , no binary.09:01
DangerMausno havent played that deeply yet09:01
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lausthi everyone09:51
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RobbieThe1stHm, got a question for anyone that knows: I have a script for the N900 that runs in a maemo-based ramdisk chroot. X is not running, as is almost anything else. Is there some sort of stand-alone terminal "client" that I can run to provide the user access to a shell?11:37
RobbieThe1stLike how desktop linux(including Debian) provide a BusyBox rescue shell in the kernel that provides a user-accessable terminal... I know I can run SSH, or just run commands directly in a shell-script, but is there any way to get a proper prompt/terminal etc.?11:39
RobbieThe1stStskeeps - Might you have an idea?11:40
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Stskeepsyou should look at the meego n900 initrd11:40
Stskeepswiki.meego.com/ARM/N90011:40
RobbieThe1stThanks11:41
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RobbieThe1stStskeeps: Ok, one small question. I have the "initrd.img-rescue-*ver*-n900" file, but I can't figure out how to extract it. It doesn't seem to be a gzip or gzip-cpio file..?11:52
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Stskeepsrpm2cpio *.rpm | cpio -id11:52
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RobbieThe1stStskeeps:  Yea, I already got the file(initrd.img) out of the rpm package... But I want to extract -that- file11:53
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Stskeepsshould be a cpio11:58
Stskeepsoh wait11:58
Stskeepsno, it's a cramfs11:58
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RobbieThe1stTY11:59
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RobbieThe1st... That solves that, then. A simple "/bin/sh" ought to do the trick12:02
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RobbieThe1stHm.... This makes things complicated. I'm sure it'd work fine with a framebuffer kernel... But I don't have one of those... Hm...12:10
psycho_oreosshouldn't be hard to make a framebuffer kernel :)12:11
RobbieThe1stNo, it's not. But the whole purpose of my program is to work on "stock" N900s... asking everyone to install a framebuffer kernel seems overkill12:12
ieatlintexcept he's running a chroot environment12:12
ieatlintplus a framebuffer could push the kernel size too big12:12
ieatlinta 2mb limit as i understnad12:12
RobbieThe1stkernel's fine - There's already a good framebuffer kernel out there, which works. In my case though, I'm using bootmenu-n900 to launch a script which copies important files to a ramdisk, then chroots into that12:13
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ieatlinti'm curious though.. if you're not entering x, and just want a shell, you shouldn't need anything graphical12:14
RobbieThe1stCorrect12:14
RobbieThe1stCurrently, I'm using the text2screen application to interface with the user12:15
psycho_oreosand so you should edit the bootloader to initialise command line12:15
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RobbieThe1stUh... what?12:15
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psycho_oreosnevermind12:16
ieatlinti think he means init=/bin/sh type deal12:16
RobbieThe1stah12:16
RobbieThe1stWell, I already -have- a good chroot environment, I'm just trying to add a proper terminal to my application12:16
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RobbieThe1st..I suppose I could try redirecting the output to a file/fifo, then read that and display it on screen using text2screen...12:17
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ieatlintthat can be a nasty hack12:19
ieatlintbuffering issues, and it may not handle any non-printable chars well (such as backspace)12:19
RobbieThe1stYea12:20
ieatlinti'm not familiar with text2screen..12:20
RobbieThe1stI can't find much documentation on it, really12:21
ieatlinthah, a google search has your tmo post as top hit12:21
RobbieThe1st:P12:21
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RobbieThe1stI've found it used in a couple of scripts, and ended up figuring out enough to make it work12:22
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ieatlinttry and see if you can print something to the screen with it, and then issue backspace chars12:23
ieatlintif so, you can work out a nasty hack :P12:23
RobbieThe1stWell, I'd have to handle that myself, by clearing that line, then writing it back with the new text.12:24
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RobbieThe1stBut heck, even doing that'd be easier than capturing each keystroke, making a line out of them, then running the command through a pair of ``'s..12:25
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ieatlintthere's a reason there's an awesome lib called readline, heh12:26
RobbieThe1stAccessable through a shell-script?12:26
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ieatlintc lib12:26
RobbieThe1stI wrote my entire darn program - all 857 lines - in BusyBox ash script. <_<12:27
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RobbieThe1stYes, I suppose I could have used python, but that would have required loading those libs. C... I have never used, and at this point would be kind of silly to learn just for this.12:27
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ieatlintbrb, beer12:29
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ieatlintmm, delicious beer12:30
ieatlintRobbieThe1st: so basically you're going to have to do something ghetto, or hope someone here has a more elegant solution12:31
RobbieThe1stBasically, yes. I was hoping for something like "Oh, just run this program with these arguments, and it automatically creates a framebuffer, and everything else you need"12:32
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ieatlintif you can find the text2screen source, it may show you how it does it such that you can bypass it12:36
RobbieThe1stWell, I don't think that's -too- much of a problem; with a framebuffer kernel, the console text'd just overwrite any bits of screen not actively being written to12:39
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xDaReaperxAnyone here tried the leaked PR 1.3 ?14:02
xDaReaperxcan i know if there's some changes in the looks and stuff of the OS ? or some additions and bug fixes logs14:03
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alteregoxDaReaperx: does it matter?14:05
alteregoThe bug tracker will have everything you need to know about the official 1.3 release14:05
xDaReaperxno i just want to see what all bugs are fixed and any additions made14:05
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alteregoLike I said, bug tracker has all the fixed bugs for official 1.314:06
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xDaReaperxwhen did you say that before ?14:06
xDaReaperx=/14:07
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ieatlinthe said it about 59s before14:08
xDaReaperxI wasn't here probably14:09
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ieatlintrepent your sins, and you may be forgiven14:10
alteregoxDaReaperx: well if you weren't here then who else was I replying to :P14:10
xDaReaperxi wasn't here the time you said this 59 times before14:11
ieatlint59 seconds, not 59 times14:11
xDaReaperxokay i thought you mean 59 times14:11
xDaReaperxtoo hard to explain ... -_-14:13
xDaReaperxnvm14:13
alteregoxDaReaperx: I said it in reply to your question 5 minutes ago14:13
alteregoSo you were here, I was saying it to you.14:14
ieatlintyeah, we're simple folk.. complicated topics are beyond our understanding14:14
xDaReaperxalterego: Okay14:15
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RST38hLooks like Cptn Obvious has left the channel14:17
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intelinsidermhh14:47
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xDaReaperx_in case there was an update like PR 1.3 and i update to it from PR1.2 will i loose all my installed apps ?15:03
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sivangxDaReaperx: no, you do a backup that saves all your personal data and the list of apps you had and it restores it once you run it after the update15:04
sivangxDaReaperx: there's somewhere on the wii docs for that, quite good if I may say15:04
sivangxDaReaperx: :)15:04
xDaReaperxOkay so before update Maemo reminds you to back up and later restores it automatically ?15:05
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xDaReaperxit's not the same in the case of reflashing a bricked N900 , i backup'd and restored after reflash my apps were not there , not even a single one15:05
sivangxDaReaperx: that is actually what  did, and all the apps got back15:06
sivangxDaReaperx: strage15:06
sivangstrange15:06
xDaReaperxyes thats what happend15:06
sivangmaybe a bug.15:06
sivangI don't kno.15:06
xDaReaperxso i worry i may loose the apps installed15:06
xDaReaperxwill them modifications done to hildon-desktop go away ?15:06
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xDaReaperxwell it's long back when i had installed aircrack-ng  , it needed a custom kernel ... but i did not install kernel for power users , so it could not restore back nokia's kernel ... and then when i restarted it wont boot15:07
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xDaReaperxso after than i had made a backup before all the reflashing15:08
xDaReaperxand restored it as far as i remember15:08
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sivangxDaReaperx: this is WAY BEYOND what the normal backup would support,15:10
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sivangxDaReaperx: so there's no gurnatee. but  if you just backup for reflash for a newer version, I don't think there should be probples15:11
sivangxDaReaperx: ofcourse there's a disclaimer15:11
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sivangxDaReaperx: for me, it just worked following strictly the instructions.15:11
RST38hDifficult-to-read fonts make for better learning, according to scientists.15:11
xDaReaperxyeah i did follow every instruction before reflashing at first ... i wont be able to do it on my own as far as i know ..15:12
RST38hDoes this mean, TV ads in gothic are not that far ahead?15:12
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xDaReaperxthe PR1.2 update was released the next day after i bought my N900 , so i had no apps installed that time except the ones that came with my N900 ... so i really did not know if i would loose any apps installed or not15:12
xDaReaperxi just updated it instantly15:13
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DocScrutinizerSSU isn't supposed to 'lose any apps'15:59
DocScrutinizerflashing of course is15:59
DocScrutinizerbut after flashing the normal backup app running a restore will do exactly that: restore your apps, contacts, settings... whatever you enabled for restore and what's also in the backup archive16:01
DocScrutinizermodulo app installed via apt-get and not properly announcing themselves to backup16:02
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DocScrutinizers/ app/ all apps/16:02
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: modulo all apps installed via apt-get and not properly announcing themselves to backup16:02
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DocScrutinizerafaict PR1.3 will be a really 'gentle' upgrade which isn't replacing 'everything'. It most likely will go almost unnoticed, fixing a bug here and a bug there by replacing a few modules and libs - the worst thing you'll notice probably is the reboot needed16:05
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DocScrutinizers/PR1.3/the next PR version SSU/16:08
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: afaict the next PR version SSU will be a really 'gentle' upgrade which isn't replacing 'everything'. It most likely will go almost unnoticed, fixing a bug here and a bug there by replacing a few modules and libs - the worst thing you'll notice probably is...16:08
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sivanghey DocScrutinizer :)16:15
DocScrutinizerheyhey16:15
sivangDocScrutinizer: you told me you live in germeny right?16:16
DocScrutinizeryep16:16
sivangDocScrutinizer: I visited Munich last week, really nice16:16
DocScrutinizerthough I'm unsure about the 'live' part16:16
sivangDocScrutinizer: hehe, why ?16:16
sivangI really liked it.16:17
DocScrutinizerdon't ask16:17
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DocScrutinizerhmm, I don't particularly like Munich - too expensive, too big, too Bavaria (I'm Franconian, the occupied country :-P), too much stupid people who think they are VIP16:18
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DocScrutinizeryou ought've traveled ~150km to the North from Munich, to visit a few breweries in Franconia, the area with world's most breweries and pubs / resident16:21
DocScrutinizerI guess we got better beer and more breweries here than all the rest of the world together16:21
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DocScrutinizerexcept for Pilsener beer16:23
jacekowskiwould you like me to quote what you said 5 minutes ago about people who think they are VIP?16:23
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: err, don't see any relation16:24
jacekowski15:21 < DocScrutinizer> I guess we got better beer and more breweries here than all the rest of the world together16:24
DocScrutinizerfact, so what16:24
jacekowskinvm16:25
DocScrutinizerswitch on Discovery channel, they will tell you the same :-P16:25
jacekowski15:21 < DocScrutinizer> I guess we got better beer and more breweries here than all the rest of the world together16:25
jacekowskiehh16:25
jacekowskimisclick16:25
jacekowskii don't have discovery16:25
jacekowskidoes it play on n900?16:26
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DocScrutinizernfc16:26
psycho_oreoshow the hell does one manage to be able to work in chroot environment with n900 when they need to upgrade a whole bunch of packages? shouldn't scratchbox be able to handle that somehow?16:27
jacekowskiyou should have up to date system16:28
psycho_oreosand if you don't inside the chrooted environment? i.e. in the case of debian images from qole.org?16:29
SpeedEvilI copied / to /home/user/chroot16:30
SpeedEvilthen I just use that for wirrd stuff16:30
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: http://www.franconiabeerguide.com/16:31
psycho_oreoshmm I don't understand how would that help let alone work.. if one needs to do apt-get upgrade for example under a debian chroot.. its easy to do that on n900 albeit it would incur lots of reads and writes on the flash drive (not ideal) however its not even remotely possible (afaik) for scratchbox16:32
vdvif i set an eight-level layout with setxkbmap, how can access symbols from 5 to 8?16:33
psycho_oreoshalf the issue is that scratchbox won't allow root access, so the init script for scratchbox needs to be hacked somehow16:33
psycho_oreosand no MADDE is not a choice.. I've tried that... really really laggy interface16:34
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marmouteHello16:36
marmouteIs ther anyway to retrieve various password stored by the N900 as my jabber one for the example16:36
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fecubguys, i have an question. Is there an application for n900, to switch on and off with timer function?? for example daily at 8.00clock switch wifi on and on 10.00clock switch wifi off! sry for my english, hope you understand me?16:37
psycho_oreosfecub, there's alarmed16:37
fecub*to switch wifi on and off with timer function?16:37
fecubalarmed16:38
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jacekowskito execute any command16:38
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psycho_oreosprobably not in a fancy UI sort of setup but you can set it to use a custom command line and from there set it to enable/disable wifi16:38
fecubah ok i see it! i intall it16:38
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fecubthank you very very much!16:39
DocScrutinizerfecub: alarmed is great - thanks to Shapeshifter16:43
fecubpsycho_oreos: command execution! must i write an dbus command! i don't know what command i can write!16:44
RST38hsplendid!16:44
RST38hand mood, javispedro16:44
psycho_oreosfecub, maybe `sudo ifconfig wifi0 down'16:44
javispedrohello RST38h16:44
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sivangDocScrutinizer: Are there interesting open source jobs there?16:48
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DocScrutinizerhmm, Nuernberg is where Suse is located, Erlangen is Siemens town. But open source jobs, hmm...16:49
sivangDocScrutinizer: well, not open source- Suse is good enough :)16:49
sivangDocScrutinizer: I mean, related to16:49
sivangDocScrutinizer: Next time I'm in Germany, I will make sure to visit Franconia16:52
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sivangDocScrutinizer: I really liked it so there's a good chance I will come again, also, there's that KDE/GNOME event coming soon and it will be in Berlin or so16:53
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: more breweries maybe ... but we still have most beers :P16:53
DocScrutinizerfine :-) leave me a notice if you drop by at Nuernberg16:53
Gh0stybelgian beers rule :P16:53
sivangGh0sty: Germen is better, in my taste.16:53
Gh0styyou have a bad taste then ;)16:53
Gh0styopen source jobs here however suck :(16:54
Gh0stybeen thinking to go to germany or something to try my luck elsewhere ...16:54
sivangGh0sty: abnd it is all french, I can learn Germen (I sortof heard some of it when I Was young from grandparents) but French is too hard for me.16:54
sivang:)16:54
Gh0stymy idea - but that could be wrong - in germany open source has a larger use base (also in companies?)16:55
sivangGh0sty: it does.16:55
sivangit is a fact.16:55
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Gh0styonly problem i might have is ...16:55
Gh0stymy german is not so good :p16:55
Gh0styi can read it fluently16:55
Gh0stybut speaking ... :p16:55
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sivangGh0sty: you can learn :)16:56
Gh0stywell since i'm dutch most looks the same :p16:56
Gh0stybut it's not that easy :)16:56
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alteregoBest way to learn is by emersing you're self in the language ... apparently.16:56
Gh0styI already do 3 languages :p16:56
Gh0styalterego: no finding a girlfriend ... :P16:56
Gh0styhowever that could also be considered "emersing yourself" :p16:57
alteregoErm, yeah, sure ..16:57
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Gh0styshould do some more trips to germany ...16:58
Gh0stynot been there too much16:58
Gh0stydespite the fact it's so close16:58
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alteregotmo is getting mighty boring.17:00
RST38hITU Rules That WiMax, LTE Don't Qualify As 4G17:01
* alterego sighs17:01
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* sivang goes back to his key/value store python exersize17:01
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DocScrutinizer~tmo17:03
infobothmm... tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic17:03
SpeedEvilor t-mobile17:04
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MohammadAGargh17:06
alteregoMohammadAG: what now? :P17:06
DocScrutinizer~tmo17:06
infoboti guess tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo17:06
MohammadAGwhen I set Qt::WA_Maemo5AutoOrientation to true on the MainWindow, it sets the same flag for all other windows under it17:07
MohammadAGthis is expected, but there's no way to override it17:07
RST38hcan't you force the flag on every other window, manually?17:07
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MohammadAGRST38h, the flag is set for all other windows, I want to force one of the 5 windows into landscape mode17:07
MohammadAGsince it doesn't work well in portrait17:08
MohammadAGI tried17:08
MohammadAG    setAttribute(Qt::WA_Maemo5AutoOrientation, false);17:08
MohammadAG    setAttribute(Qt::WA_Maemo5LandscapeOrientation, true);17:08
DocScrutinizer:nod:17:08
DocScrutinizershould work I'd guess17:09
MohammadAGshould = doesn't in this case17:09
RST38hThis is supposed to work, logically17:09
alterego"should" work17:09
alteregoBut Qt4.6+Maemo5+orientation is screwed :P17:09
RST38hOk, Mohammad, let us try it another way17:09
DocScrutinizeruse another main window17:09
RST38h*Remove* autootientation from the parent window, set it explicitely to all the other windows but then one which you do not want to rotate17:10
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: build a new kernel!17:11
DocScrutinizerfor hostmode :-)17:11
sivanghehe17:12
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: or do you really need me to supply a proper diff generated patch instead if a per line suggestion how to fix the bugs?17:12
sivangbut what RST38h said should really do the ting17:12
sivangthing17:12
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, no, a per line one worksforme17:12
MohammadAGRST38h, it's a stacked window17:13
alteregoKind of a waste of both your lives though isn't it?17:14
alterego:P17:14
MohammadAGalterego, Qt 4.7 isn't any better17:14
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/h-e-n-devel/2010/000032.html17:14
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alteregoMohammadAG51: *shrugs* :P17:15
MohammadAGalterego, so there's no way to set forced landscape mode?17:16
MohammadAGgrr17:16
alteregoSure, you can force landscape mode if you want.17:17
alteregoBaring in mind that, well, you can only see one window at a time. So does it matter that the root window is in charge of orientation? ...17:18
sivangstacked windows are like inide an MDI ?17:18
DocScrutinizer( Baring in mind that, well, you can only see one window at a time) that's why I suggested to instantiate a new top level window, without parent17:20
alteregoMohammadAG: like, onSlidTo(3) -> window.setAttribute(Qt::WA_Maemo5LandscapeOrientation, true) etc.17:20
alteregoI do however think mixing up landscape/portrait like this is a bad idea.17:21
alteregoForcing a a single view in an app to be landscape will just annoy people.17:21
* DocScrutinizer remarks every window is forced into landscape as soon as focus is set to a text input field17:22
alteregoYes, there is that.17:22
alteregobored bored bored ..17:23
MohammadAGalterego, stretching an image into landscape mode isn't any better17:23
sivangDocScrutinizer: indeed, very irritating17:24
alteregoDon't stretch then :P17:25
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alteregomaintain aspect and set the background.17:25
alteregoOr, redo the image.17:25
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DocScrutinizervery logical, as the kbd *is* designed for landscape. Hard to change that, at least for hw kbd :-P17:25
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SpeedEvilA rotating keyboard would be lovely.17:27
SpeedEvilI'd actually like a fully detachable one.17:27
SpeedEvilBut that may be a little mechanically complex.17:27
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sivangSpeedEvil: hehe could be17:30
sivanganyway, I haveto logoff irc to get focused17:30
sivangsee you all17:30
sivangalthough this is #maemo, tryto cheer up :)17:30
SpeedEvilwave17:31
sivang#meego is all hope :)17:31
sivangyeah!17:31
sivangwave17:31
MohammadAGalterego, all the images can't be stretched17:32
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alterego3WHY UNOT>?!?!17:39
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alteregoGod, I'm so freain' bored.17:40
alterego~freakin' ..17:40
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* SpeedEvil cures alteregos boredome.17:40
* SpeedEvil puts away the cryogenic tuna, the peanut butter, and the mallet.17:41
alteregoThat sounds somewhat horrible :P17:41
alteregoMaybe I should do the washing up or something ..17:41
alteregoOh cool, Stellerium was released into Ovi, that is somewhat, erm, interestingly timed ^.^17:42
SpeedEvil:/17:43
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alteregoI don't like how he has a load of donate buttons on his site, but he's charging for his app on Ovi17:44
alteregogreedy punk17:44
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crashanddiewhom are we talking about?17:46
alteregothe author17:47
crashanddielink to said website?17:47
Stskeepsalterego: and that he won the innovators contest :P17:47
alteregofdff17:47
alteregogoogle :P17:47
alteregoYeah, that too! :D17:47
crashanddiealterego: gimme the fucking link, bitch.17:47
wolf^well, somebody at tmo has already exercised his rights given by the gpl17:47
alterego15.7M omfg17:48
crashanddiewolf^: good17:48
crashanddiebtw, someone should exercice his GPL-rights on this website: www.sportmag.fr17:48
crashanddie(I helped debugging some really horrible code)17:48
crashanddieas in, the guy uses Django, so an MVC framework, yet _everything_ is in the views.17:49
MohammadAGalterego, cause they're 800x480? :P17:49
alteregocrashanddie: http://stellarium-mobile.org/17:49
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petteriohhh. nice to have it finally available17:52
crashanddiethe website doesn't look like much17:52
alteregotbh, that GPL is bullshit17:52
alteregoHe wrote Stellarium, he can release closed versions of it if he wants.17:53
petterialterego: why so angry?17:53
alteregoThat guy that just uploaded it is well out of order.17:53
javispedroSpeedEvil: detachable keyboard -> http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/17:53
javispedroalterego: suposedly other people contributed to stellarium.17:54
SpeedEviljavispedro: well - yes.17:54
SpeedEvil(touchbook)17:54
alteregojavispedro: well, we can't guess at what arrangements they may have come to :P17:54
javispedrohow can you say tmo is boring? "MeeGo will be a tragedy!"17:57
javispedro=)17:58
alteregojavispedro: that's actually what spurred me ..17:58
alteregoI think I'm having a moody day, but I'm seriously thinking of severing from maemo.org and the whole community and just jumping to meego now ..17:58
alteregoWhich will be a shame, because I like talking to a lot of you and helping the hackers here :/17:59
kerioSpeedEvil: detachable penis -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byDiILrNbM417:59
javispedroalterego: imho the geekiness in meego.com is already on the way down.18:00
Arkenoiam i right that, considering "inofficial" modest fixes not addressing the issue, modest usability is not widely accepted as terminal disaster?18:02
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Jef91So for some reason I can no longer connect to IRC on my tmobile 3g on my n900 any ideas?18:03
kerioArkenoi: modest's problems can't be solved by a patch18:03
kerionothing short of nuking it from orbit can18:03
* ShadowJK would blame tmob18:04
DocScrutinizer51Jef91: wait til t-mo NAT IP and sessions get discarded18:05
Jef91Any idea how long that talkes?18:06
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DocScrutinizer51usually a reconnect every 60s succeeds after some (dozen) tries18:06
alteregoghey, for some reason my card isn't being accepted by Ovi  :/18:06
Arkenoikerio, well, having ONE click to reach the inbox instead of 4 should be possible, isn't it?18:07
alteregoOh well, I guess I'll have to hold off buying it ..18:07
Jef91thats a pain in the ass18:07
Jef91never done that before18:07
DocScrutinizer51Jef91: also going offline and back online on 3G helps18:07
kerio"T-Mobile" and "pain in the ass" often go togheter18:07
alteregoDon't think it's happened to be before either.18:08
alteregoMaybe there's something wrong with my account :S18:08
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DocScrutinizer51alterego: if you get a NAT IP that's been blocked by feenode prviously then you're out of luck18:09
alteregoDocScrutinizer51: I was talking about my card not being accepted at ovi :P18:10
DocScrutinizer51ooh18:10
alteregoNot Jef91's IRC t-mo woes18:10
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DocScrutinizer51alterego: they heard your maemo/meego heresy18:11
alteregoHeh18:11
alteregoThere has been none :P18:11
alteregoI'm an avid supporter.18:11
alteregoI just the the community has gone to scht.18:11
GAN900Exactly.18:11
alteregoAnd I'm not getting any fun from it anymore.18:12
DocScrutinizer51:-/18:12
DocScrutinizer51might telling a joke help?18:12
intelinsideri can't receive mms with fmss18:12
alteregoIf you look at tmo right now, and the active topics bar, can anyone say that they're even remotely interested in any of the subjects?18:13
intelinsider*fmms18:13
alteregotmo aside, but it's not like this channel has been particularly riveting over the past few months ..18:13
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intelinsideri set the provider settings but without success18:14
javispedroalterego: hack something interesting to keep it alive =)18:14
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: was pondering to answer sth similar18:14
javispedroall the useful projects are in dire need of man-hours18:15
javispedroe.g. host mode18:15
DocScrutinizerlife is boring at large, until you put some sense in it18:15
alteregoI was hacking on a few interesting projects, but now I'm thinking the apps are going to have to be quite radically changed to work under MeeGo, so I figure I'll just target meego touch framework and forget about maemo.18:15
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alteregoThat way my apps will be ready for the next device and I get to work in MeeGo, which is still in the fun phase :))18:16
alteregoThat and there's no politics, well, not much politics.18:16
javispedroand by the time the n900+1 is released, you will have to retarget your projects again because they will work with a debian-like distro like Harmattan instead of Meego =)18:16
DocScrutinizerif THAT is true, then honestly meego needs some love, ti *fix that issue*18:16
javispedro(or viceversa)18:16
alteregojavispedro: packing isn't a problem :P18:16
javispedronot only packing.18:17
alteregoDocScrutinizer51: we can have meego touch framework on maemo, and do in the Qt meego examples I believe.18:17
javispedrowell, unless you use only qt apis :P18:17
alteregoI think most of the APIs I'm interested in are the same.18:17
alteregoIn fact, from my two apps perspective, there's nothing different from the application code. Just radically different UI code18:18
alteregoI could probably whittle it down to 1 UI for symbian/maemo and 1 UI for meego18:18
alteregoBut I can't be bothered anymore.18:18
alteregoCall me lazy I guess :P18:19
DocScrutinizermy recent knowledge is "you can migrate properly written maemo apps by push of a button" - if that doesn't deliver then meego did something *really* BAD18:19
alteregoSure, but then I'm not taking advantage of the cool stuff in meego18:19
ShadowJKlol18:20
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DocScrutinizerbtw I requested meego doing a prototypical implemetation of this migration path some months ago, and I still don't see it18:20
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alteregoHeh18:20
alteregoProbably because the handset ux can't handle non meego-touch apps.18:20
alteregoIt'll run Qt apps, they just don't get handled properly.18:21
DocScrutinizerthen nuke meego-touch, not abandom maemo18:21
GAN900DocScrutinizer, :rolleyes:18:21
alteregoKind of just get overlayed ontop of the ui18:21
alteregomeego touch is evolution though.18:21
GAN900Marketing shouldn't pretend to know about stuff like that.18:21
alteregoAnd it's a really cool framework ..18:21
GAN900It never ends well.18:21
DocScrutinizerFSCKIT!18:22
alteregoWell, you do what you want to do, I'll do what I want to do and maybe one day we'll meet again ;)18:23
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DocScrutinizerhonestly, what noobs are developing meego, if they don't even know how to properly implement a compatibility layer, as they are supposed to and promised :-(((18:23
alteregoI don't remember that promise18:23
alteregoOr declaration18:23
DocScrutinizermeh18:23
alteregoUnless you're getting confused with the Qt "write once, run everywhere" ...18:24
sivangDocScrutinizer: this to imply again you cannot really "code once, deploy everywhere?" :)18:24
DocScrutinizeralterego: sorry, that's mega-lame18:24
sivanghehe18:24
sivangI see the level of cheer up is dropping to new records :)18:24
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alterego:)18:25
jpinx-eeepcsivang: you can't even do that across diferent releases of the same os :(18:25
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sivangjpinx-eeepc: bad :/18:26
sivangjpinx-eeepc: you mean between different maemos?18:26
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XhindeDoes someone have a little spare time to help me with getting MMS to work?18:26
jpinx-eeepcsivang: I tell lies - there is a .deb  for downloading from youtube which will install almost anywhere 'cos it's just a pythin script18:27
jpinx-eeepcpyfat18:27
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DocScrutinizeralterego: so basically you say you don't like to remember this promise just because you don't care, and you are joining meego and leave maemo, just *because* you like this incompatibility. Well, thanks for the time you spent here, I'm sure meego needs more of your kind18:27
* DocScrutinizer pissed. Bye18:28
jpinx-eeepcalterego: being a dick?18:29
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alteregoNo, DocScrutinizer is being a drama queen18:30
alteregoI don't remember those promises because I obviously didn't read them, do you have a source?18:31
sivangjpinx-eeepc: could you please add your findings and thoughts here http://wiki.meego.com/Qt_across_MeeGo_%26_Symbian or comment abou the endeavor on a meego ml?18:32
sivangDocScrutinizer:  ^^18:32
sivangI don't promise to go anywhere with that, but I'm trying :)18:32
sivanganyway,bbab18:32
jpinx-eeepcwho was it that said it is egos that drive open source forward :)18:33
javispedroDocScrutinizer: let's try and get hildon to be a first party framework for harmattan again =)18:34
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MohammadAGyay?18:34
MohammadAGjavispedro, you do that, I'll send a donation your way if you get it working :P18:35
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javispedroMohammadAG: if I did that, there's a $50,000 gnome foundation "donation" =)18:35
MohammadAGI'll send one more buck :P18:35
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javispedrowhat does X-HildonDesk-ShowInToolbar mean18:49
javispedromxr does not return hits, other than nokia .desktop files18:50
MohammadAGcould be leftovers from diablo18:50
MohammadAGI think Nokia doesn't know how to use .desktop files18:50
javispedroI believe that the minimal set of required fields on a desktop file is: Encoding, Type, Name, and X-Osso-Service18:52
javispedro(Exec instead of X-Osso-Service if app does not link with libosso)18:52
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DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format18:59
DocScrutinizercourtesy dneary18:59
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javispedroI am actually trying to understand and fill it =)18:59
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DocScrutinizerwell, fremantle has no toolbar, so...19:01
javispedroDiablo hadn't, either.... hm..19:01
DocScrutinizerso MohammadAG's suggestion is quite sound19:01
DocScrutinizererr, it hadn't19:01
DocScrutinizer?19:01
javispedrowell, none where all apps where shown19:02
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DocScrutinizer:-P19:02
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DocScrutinizerno, only those with X-HildonDesk-ShowInToolbar=true19:03
MohammadAGjavispedro, X-Osso-Service isn't needed19:04
javispedroDocScrutinizer: virtually all of them19:04
MohammadAGonly needed if you have a .service file19:04
javispedroso, no idea :(19:04
javispedroMohammadAG: note I didn't put "Exec" in the set, so without a service file it won't even launch =)19:04
MohammadAGah19:05
javispedrothe idea is: either you do it the dbus way (X-Osso-Service, libosso, .service file) or the unix way (Exec:)19:05
DocScrutinizerX-Osso-Service=gpe_todo19:07
DocScrutinizerX-HildonDesk-ShowInToolbar=true19:07
DocScrutinizer(from my N810)19:07
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javispedroand does gpe_todo show in any toolbar?19:07
DocScrutinizerthere's been another one with  X-HildonDesk-ShowInToolbar, just one though19:07
javispedroweirdo, so it's a fremantle thing then.19:07
foucistis there anything like nokia n900 but with host usb?19:07
DocScrutinizernope, not that I know of19:07
foucistand good battery life?  8+ hours ?19:08
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javispedrothe N810? :P19:08
javispedro(no phone)19:08
RST38ha laptopmaybe?19:08
DocScrutinizer~hostmode19:08
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, hostmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=824197#post82419719:08
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foucisti'm basically looking for a tiny portable computer with usb hostmode..  it doesn't even need a screen or anything, just checking around, i noticed someone suggested n900 for wearable computer type stuff19:09
MohammadAGno screen?19:09
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: honestly I think I don't get it - the most obvious explanation for X-HildonDesk-ShowInToolbar seems doesn't fit at all19:09
ShadikkaWhat do you need it for?19:10
MohammadAGpandaboard for OMAP4, beagleboard for OMAP319:10
javispedroMohammadAG++19:10
DocScrutinizeryo19:10
foucistShadikka: i want to plug in a webcam and capture everything i see during the day (lifelogging)19:10
javispedroeven though for OMAP3 you might want to goog for IGEP, as the beagleboard doesn't have wifi19:10
DocScrutinizerlol19:10
Shadikkahmm, I can't think of anything then.19:10
foucistShadikka: kind of like http://www.viconrevue.com/home.html  but i'd like to do it for significantly cheaper19:11
RST38hMhm,Ballmer promised a revolutionary new Windows819:11
* RST38h is scared now19:11
javispedroRST38h: already? =)19:11
RST38hhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/10/23/ballmer-next-release-of-windows-will-be-microsofts-riskiest-p/19:11
foucistit's approx $80019:11
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DocScrutinizerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE Blamer19:12
DocScrutinizererr Balmer19:13
toggleslol19:13
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/15/stephen-elop-chants-developers-developers-developers-to-clos/19:13
RST38hBlamer indeed19:13
foucistjavispedro: do you think putting together a beagleboard + battery + usb webcam would be a good affordable way to get a wearable webcam to capture what i see during the day?19:15
javispedrofoucist: If I had such a need that'd be the first I'd try. But i never did it, so understand me :)19:15
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foucisti think i'd like to find a cheaper alternative to beagleboard19:16
famicomlo room19:16
foucist$150 is perhaps a little too much for my simple needs19:16
famicomanyone know what program the maemo chat app is based on19:16
famicomit's being a dick, not syncing chat history like pidgin does19:16
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famicomis it based on emphathy?19:17
fluxsoo, has anyone written a tool that allows one to neatly browse incoming sms messages on a linux desktop, + send them as well?19:17
famicomflux, not sure, browsing them should be easy, sending them a different story all together19:17
DocScrutinizerRST38h: how could you possibly *not* be scared when such a guy is announcing anything19:19
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MohammadAGfamicom, empathy, logs are in sqlite319:21
MohammadAGchances are if it isn't saving logs, it's failing silently19:21
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MohammadAGeither:19:21
MohammadAG1) /home is corrupt/mounted ro19:21
DocScrutinizerRST38h: you know I'm German, here we are especially sensible to detect such kind of BS on a stage talking to a large undiscriminating audience19:21
MohammadAG2) sqlite3 db is corrupt19:21
famicomis there a way to mount the root FS to be browsed over USB19:21
DocScrutinizerfamicom: NFS, sshfs19:22
famicomaye, to be honest, the DB works fine, it's just not accepting a "push" like si done on pidgin19:22
fluxfamicom, by easy you mean I use sqlite command line client or that there is a working solution for that?-)19:22
famicomflux yeah, something like that :)19:23
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!19:25
famicomaaaah, i see now :)19:25
famicomit's based on telepathy i think19:25
fluxfamicom, do you remember where the sms messages were?19:25
famicomnope, trawling through repos and docs to find out what precise architecture is :)19:26
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: your /dev/random has a strange bug in entropy19:26
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Funniest_Joke_in_the_World ;)19:26
javispedro(just testing your bullshit filter :D )19:26
famicomhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/RTCOM19:27
BCMMis there a reasonably sane/safe way to compile Qt stuff on the actual device?19:27
famicomI think you should look at easychroot for that19:27
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: there's at least 6 words in it that are mere BS as they don't exist in German language19:28
famicomWenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer? Ja!...      Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!19:29
DocScrutinizeror - if those are names - I never heard of them19:29
famicomprobably meant as a non sequitor19:29
javispedroDocScrutinizer: exactly  -- it's plain bullshit. some old british joke.19:29
fluxfamicom, hmph, I have ~/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db, but the mos recent message in it is from Mon Jun  7 15:54:13 EEST 201019:30
DocScrutinizerwell, if British think it's funny to talk BS that sounds like German... I always knew British are mad dogs19:30
flux(according to events.start_time)19:30
RST38hDoc: You seem to be forgetting that I am Russian... :)19:30
DocScrutinizernope, I didn't19:31
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DocScrutinizerI'm well aware you got similar celebrities19:31
RST38hDoc: Then you should probably remember that there were 70 years of pure smelly bullshit from every possible public orifice... :)19:31
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famicomblah, i finally pulled this thing apart19:32
famicomfinally get what i'm working with, took me a month, but i got it, it's an ARM tablet computer, with some specialized GSM hardware, plugged in on the side, probably supported within the kernel, then on top, it's really just a linux install, with rather than just the usual "gnome desktop" a different type of environment setup19:34
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famicomwith all of the "phone" functionality provided by RTCOM framework running in userspace, which accesses low level hardware through D-BUS19:35
famicombut ofcourse, i could be wrong........19:35
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famicompretty much the classical "Linux Distro" concept19:36
DocScrutinizer51RST38h: btw to me it seems you (russia) are up for another few decadesor19:36
DocScrutinizer51-or19:37
RST38hDoc: No, that's different19:37
RST38hDoc: The previous one was grand. This one is more like a traveiling circus performance.19:38
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BCMMi asked a question about compilers a few minutes ago, around the time that maemo switched to a broken wireless network and i got disconnected. did my question actually get through, and did anyone respond?19:45
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javispedroBCMM: yes, you got easychroot for answer19:47
javispedroand I agree (a chroot is the only sane way)19:47
javispedrounless what you want to build is very simple; then a plai-ly optified gcc might work.19:48
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SpeedEvilthere is gcc in the tools repo.19:49
SpeedEvilYou _can_ install gcc onto the rootfs19:49
SpeedEvilbut you end up with little space left.19:50
SpeedEvilAnd a chroot is the better way19:50
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BCMMSpeedEvil: so a whole second copy of the qt libs?19:52
BCMMi seem to have a 150 second ping here over rural 2g...19:52
SpeedEvilBCMM: yes19:52
SpeedEvilBCMM: you copy all of / into a chroot19:52
SpeedEvilthen apt-get whatever in that chroot, so it doesn't screw with /19:53
BCMMwasn't there some hack involving installing stuff from the sdk repo, then disabling that repo before everything breaks? is that basically a bad idea?19:53
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BCMMSpeedEvil: what about building qt apps? is there a qmake package?19:56
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SpeedEvildunno19:57
SpeedEvilsdk stuff is not optified.19:57
SpeedEvilGCC is ~50M19:58
SpeedEvil / has 80M or so free when virgin19:58
SpeedEvilhence...19:58
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BCMMSpeedEvil: how hard would it be for me to manually play with symlinks?20:00
javispedroBCMM: you enable the SDK repo _on a chroot_20:00
javispedroBCMM: then, when it eventually breaks, your device is safe.20:00
javispedroalso, chances are it won't even break as you don't have to "boot" the chroot, just run commands from it.20:00
SpeedEvilThe issue is that most stuff with a GUI doesn't work properly, without screwing with stuff.20:01
javispedrooh, it works, but themes won't be applied, etc.20:02
javispedroso when the resulting binary is done just run it from outside the chroot et voila.20:02
SpeedEvilyeah20:02
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* javispedro had a working SDK chroot on his n810 a year ago, and I used it to build some demo Qt apps back then20:03
trumeeanybody remembers the name of the app which can read the calendar and change profile to silent.20:04
trumeeit can read wlan ssid and gps location and perform some action.20:05
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trumee"calendar" string in fapman is not bringing it up.20:05
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trumeefound it N9profile!20:08
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dRbiGokey, put some stuff here http://www.drbig.one.pl/n900.html20:13
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felipechttp://felipec.wordpress.com/2010/10/23/why-maemo-downloads-are-screwed/20:13
dRbiGstill have more to add there; anyway maybe someone will find sth useful there20:13
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DocScrutinizerfelipec: popular != good20:18
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felipecDocScrutinizer: so?20:19
DocScrutinizernothing more, just saying20:19
tank-manfelipec, "popularity" ratings can also be abused. All that an author has to do is setup a bunch of fake accounts to rate his app20:20
sivangguys, the hildon porting offer is to make sure maemo legacy apps use the same L&F on meego?20:20
sivangI was not really able to understand what it tries to achieve from the email, to be honest20:20
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sivangif that is so, is it our interest to make it succedd?20:20
sivangI mean, I think it is20:20
javispedrosivang: to make sure they run in a sane way. right now, they won't even have a titlebar.20:21
javispedroso no way to close them.20:21
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javispedroand hildon offers quite a lot of features that depend on hooks in the window manager20:21
felipecDocScrutinizer: but if you have thousands of apps, you need ways to sort them out, and popularity is a good starting point to find good ones20:21
javispedroso those have to be ported over too20:21
felipectank-man: that can be done right now20:22
DocScrutinizerno, it's a good starting point to find popular ones. The new brilliant ones never get a chance20:22
felipectank-man: in fact, right now it's easier to abuse the system... all you have to do is make many releases20:22
javispedrofelipec: I'd argue about needing a "sort by download count" option, but I do believe that popularity!=downloadcount20:23
sivangjavispedro: so this is the wa to cater for cross platformness, and not Qt. We must have this communicated properly20:23
sivangwhat should we do?20:23
javispedrosivang: elaborate?20:23
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: aiui there *sIS* a sort-by-dlcount20:23
felipecjavispedro: I'm not saying that, I'm just saying that right now there's no way to sort by popularity20:23
sivangjavispedro: So, a while a go I decided to try and help make the corss platorm developer experience beter20:24
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: just it's not called "popular"20:24
felipechow to measure popularity is another issue, but most probably would be a function of all the fields I mentioned20:24
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sivangjavispedro: that page being a brainstromgin page and attempet to collect resources20:24
yohomerHi. I'm a brand new n810 user (yea!) .... version 5.2008.43-7 .... wondering which repositories (catalogs) I should have in the application manager.20:24
sivangjavispedro: and I would like tocome up with guidelines for streamlined porting of apps20:24
sivangjavispedro: http://wiki.meego.com/Qt_across_MeeGo_%26_Symbian20:25
javispedrosivang: so your opinion is to force Gtk+ devs to use Qt?20:25
yohomerI have repository.maemo.org/extras/ but it isn't version specific20:25
felipecDocScrutinizer: sort by download count? where?20:25
sivangjavispedro: so we should make it clear that pure qt apps are not thr gith way to go (yet) for that, since to achieve the we need to use the MeeGo framework20:25
sivangjavispedro: no! :)20:25
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sivangjavispedro: I am just trying to devise a proper guide that describes the available options. given there are also NOkia efforts to make things easier through QML or Qt Components20:26
javispedrosivang: I understand what you want to do, but there's a bunch of Gtk+ apps and even plain Xlib apps out there that might never get ported -- and it is quite interesting if those run.20:26
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javispedros/interesting if those run/desirable to run those20:26
sivangjavispedro: right, so one of the ways is to "if you app is not supported by the current runtime on meego, see if you ca help the hildon porting initiative with a patch a fix relevant for your usage"20:27
DocScrutinizerfelipec: http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/system/  looks quite sorted by dl-count20:27
sivangjavispedro: well, rewriting an app should never be required. this is plain hard and a discouragement for developers20:28
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DocScrutinizerfelipec: you just have to decide which category you want to look at - obviously there's no category 'all'20:29
RST38hback20:29
DocScrutinizerwich honestly seems fair enough20:29
felipecDocScrutinizer: right, that's a bit helpful, but there should be a way for all20:29
DocScrutinizerI couldn't bother less how many downloads a lib got, when I'm searching for "good" (as in your def) games, for example20:30
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felipecpreferably taking into account the stars and votes, which would be a sensible to measure popularity20:31
* DocScrutinizer shrugs20:31
felipecDocScrutinizer: some people are not looking for games, but for good apps20:31
felipecsomething they might have not tried yet20:31
felipecmaybe not you, but some people20:32
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DocScrutinizergood != dl-count either, ans as mentioned 2 lines above, who'd be interested in testing eithe powerkernel or N900fly depending on which is "better"? o.O20:33
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trumeeis it possible to sort by download count atm?20:35
DocScrutinizersounds to me like you're asking for a hall of fame, for the pkg with most ever downloads. Users are hardly interested in such number bragging20:35
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felipectrumee: apparently only by category20:35
javispedroseems so, that should be fixed.20:35
felipecDocScrutinizer: not true20:35
trumeefelipec: i selected a category on maemo.org but dont see a sort option?20:36
felipectrumee: they seem to be sorted by downloads by default20:37
DocScrutinizertrumee: what option WTF?20:37
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trumeefelipec: ah, i see20:37
DocScrutinizertrumee: read backscroll20:37
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ShadowJKHeh. Watching a 'rescue chopper' thing on tv. The doctor onthe chooper has a Nokia N97, and is watching the patient's EEG on it while enroute to a heart attack patient20:38
ShadowJKNot fiction :-)20:39
sivangjavispedro: true, we should maybe consult the community to see which sort of app sets are in wish to get ported.20:39
DocScrutinizerhehe, nobody told him GSM is not allowed on airplane?20:39
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ShadowJKHer :P20:39
sivangjavispedro: some more discussion on the subject more from the comunity of Maemo would help, but I wasn't ale to get much attention from ourselves so far, I might cross post to meego and maemo to get more feedback andreal words needs.20:40
javispedrosivang: tbh I'm not used to this paperwork :)20:41
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: and aircraft20:41
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sivangjavispedro: I'm not sure how much Nokia are aware of theissues, I at least want to get more idea from the community so hopfuly this will end up being porting bugs and will get fixed eventually20:42
sivangjavispedro: I also wonder for the amount of offered MeeGo apps given porting is sonot trivial20:42
ShadowJKi guess it's allowed on their ambulance eurocopter :)20:43
sivangand most of our apps are hildon...20:43
sivanganyway, I'm straying again- back to my assignment20:43
sivangand hanks for listening to my noise :)20:43
sivang*thanks20:43
javispedro:P :)20:43
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* ShadowJK wonders if meego will have a podcast app20:44
sivangI might be too blank, but then again that would mean I have still energy to try and push things forward until I wear out :)20:44
sivangthe problem for me is that I did not do too much hildon developent on Maemo, and so do ot have the findings of the hardship of porting and te current state , and would be happy to hear more about that from the community20:45
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sivangand with qt, I thought this is in the past- but since you still need to use MTF or MAF to build apps, it is not a real and immediate solution20:46
sivangI'm now really off, although this is very important I think and I would need to spend more time on this.20:46
MohammadAGShadowJK, afaik gpodder works on it20:48
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sivangMohammadAG: using the gtk runtime builtin?20:48
sivangMohammadAG: no porting was required?20:48
MohammadAGsivang, Qt rewrite afaik20:49
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sivangMohammadAG: I see :/20:49
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MohammadAGhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWtMLs3j09U20:49
sivangMohammadAG: who's the author? can I bug him to write about his experience ?20:49
javispedronot completely true -- the stock+ version also run http://thpmaemo.blogspot.com/2010/08/gpodder-running-in-meego-handset-ux-for.html20:49
javispedros/stock/stock gtk+/20:49
infobotjavispedro meant: not completely true -- the stock gtk++ version also run http://thpmaemo.blogspot.com/2010/08/gpodder-running-in-meego-handset-ux-for.html20:49
MohammadAGsivang, no, you can't bug him :P20:50
MohammadAGI'm guessing it's thp20:50
sivangah! thp already wrote on thepage :)20:50
sivangabout the rabbot game20:50
sivang"wrote once, #ifdef everywhere"20:50
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MohammadAGI hate it when someone pushes 10 updates every second to devel20:51
MohammadAGmemscanner in https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-October/ :/20:51
sivanggpodder seems nice on that video20:52
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sivangright, the stock version runs20:53
sivangwe need an automatic UI adopter for that, since it does look like the old gtk apps from the 90s20:53
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sivangand I guess this is what the 50$ prize is about20:53
javispedroMohammadAG: nothing more creepy than emailing them with the solution to whatever problem they had20:54
alterego1*09/vvvvvv20:54
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javispedrosivang: agreed -- porting gtk-qt-style to qt4 should be part of it20:54
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MohammadAGalterego, ?20:56
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sivangjavispedro: what do you mean by gtk-qt style?20:58
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javispedrosivang: there was a gtk+ plugin back in qt3 days that rendered gtk+ widgets with qt theme (basically, inverse of QGtkStyle)20:59
sivangjavispedro: right, exactly okay, I knew something like this had to be made to support the hildon looks with qt apps20:59
sivangjavispedro: so we need an inverse20:59
* sivang adds to the wiki20:59
Corsacjavispedro: there's one for qt4 as well21:00
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javispedroCorsac: does it work?21:00
Corsacjavispedro: a GTK+ engine using Qt oxygen widgets21:00
Corsacno idea21:00
CorsacI don't use Qt stuff21:00
Corsachttp://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=12971521:00
javispedrobut it's limited to oxygen-themes I guess.21:01
javispedroand I doubt most Meego themes are going to be oxygen-based.21:01
MohammadAGjust for the hell of it; compilation times to zImage on autobuilder:21:01
MohammadAGreal3m36.658s21:01
MohammadAGuser12m13.786s21:01
MohammadAGsys0m42.251s21:01
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Corsacjavispedro: no idea21:01
MohammadAGs/to/of/21:01
* MohammadAG sneaked in a "time" before the make21:02
Corsac(hmhm, wrong, I do use Qt for vlc)21:02
Corsac(but anyway I use QGTKStyle)21:02
MohammadAGhttps://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/psfreedom_0.4/armel.build.log.OK.txt :D21:02
* MohammadAG should stop using v in tar, makes logs long21:03
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MohammadAGX-Fade, ping?21:04
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sivangjavispedro, Corsac : added to the notes at that page. Thanks guys.21:08
Corsacyw21:08
javispedrosivang: thanks to you too.21:08
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sivangI wonder how the porting guide does not really talk about this issues. Hnce I think our brainstorming is useful21:12
DocScrutinizeris there a debug option in (2) *exec*/*fork* etc? Purpose: get a syslog line for every newly started process21:12
sivangI mean, there is a page on the wiki for meego porting guide21:12
sivangah, it is a hardware porting guide, that's why!21:14
sivangdear god, I'm always drawn to meego/maemo stuff and can't concetrnate on my stuff :)21:14
sivanganyway - back to my stuff. Thanks all, cheers.21:15
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MuelliDocScrutinizer: no. But you could use strace.21:18
DocScrutinizeron *all* existing processes? mmmpf21:19
DocScrutinizerI'd probably better replace the .ko function spawning a new process21:20
DocScrutinizererr, scratch .ko, it's obviously a core kernel function :-P21:21
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DocScrutinizerI just hate the idea of >while true; do ps | sort | tail | unique | logger; done<21:24
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RST38hyou forgot |fsck | fsck | fsck21:24
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DocScrutinizerwill slow down things even more :-P21:24
DocScrutinizerand btw uniq won't work like expected, when used this way - but you get the idea I think21:25
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DocScrutinizerwhile true; do ps | sort | tail; done | unique | logger;21:26
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DocScrutinizerbtw I keep it as an execise to reader why above concept never can work as expected21:36
DocScrutinizer(except on messybox X-P )21:40
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* RST38h yawns21:43
RST38hAnything new and exciting in the world?21:43
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vdvif i did "dpkg --set-selections < previously_installed_packages" then how can i actually install packages? apt-get install?21:51
* MohammadAG releases his PSFreedom C++/Qt rewrite, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=848872&postcount=38821:51
MohammadAGfree at last21:52
RST38hnaah, no PS3 here.21:52
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jacekowskihmm is low call quality on skype a known problem?22:12
RST38hjacekowski: yes22:13
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RST38hjacekowski: it goes over IP. IP does not guarantee you timely packet delivery (hell, UDP does not event guarantee you the delivery)22:14
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jacekowskibut i mean it works fine on PC22:14
jacekowskiconnected to same wireless22:14
RST38hSame network link?22:14
jacekowskiyep22:14
RST38hWell, different WiFi hardware, to be fair22:14
jacekowskiand wifi works fine as well22:14
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jacekowskiSIP works fine22:15
RST38hthen weird22:15
jacekowskiit's just skype + n90022:15
RST38hESPECIALLY if SIP works fine22:15
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RST38hWhen your connection is bad, SIP is the first to go unusable, only then Skype22:15
RST38hIs the other side using speakerphone?22:16
jacekowskilaptop22:16
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knightstalkerHello,Could anyone install gAnyremote?22:31
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nox-moin22:51
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javispedroheh, while testing this .desktop file stuff I've broken hildon-desktop enough that tapping on any app results in it trying to activate the foreca weather app.22:58
javispedrothank god I have ssh, cause now I cannot launch xterm :)22:59
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oshinhmmm someone post the link to stellarium deb i shared here from my box :)23:04
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oshinhttp://lovenacky.endofinternet.org/~id/stellarium_mobile_1_0_3_113373.deb23:15
oshincan someone verify that i put some message?23:16
oshinto replace the deb.23:16
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oshinI am not Matan btw23:18
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javispedrogood.23:19
oshindidn't know the link i posted here would pop up on tmo like that23:19
oshinMatan, it's okay BTW, if you are around.23:20
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javispedroseems that you do need "Exec" even if X-Osso-Service is specified.23:22
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vdvi'm connected from my n900 to pc (linux) via usb, i've enabled usb networking, i can ping and ssh in both directions, now the question is how can i redirect traffic from n900 to ethernet on my pc (and also in other direction)?23:33
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SpeedEviltiy neab tiy wabt ti yse youe n900 to actr as a modem to get to the internet?23:36
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MyrttiSpeedEvil: don't drink and derive23:40
oshinvdv, you have to do routing or masquerading on your PC to make your PC act like gateway for the N90023:41
oshinon the vice-versa I think you need power-kernel23:42
ieatlintno, he doesn't need power kernel for that23:42
ieatlinton the n900 itself, you just need to set the route23:43
oshinieatlint, can default kernel do masquerading?23:43
oshinor ip forwarding?23:43
ieatlintno, it can't, but the masquerading occurs on the pc in that configuration23:43
oshinno i was talking about vice-versa ie PC->n900->internet23:43
oshinor i use wrong word?23:44
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oshinnot native english speaker sorry.23:44
ieatlintwell, to "redirect traffic from n900 to ethernet on my pc" would be n900->pc->internet23:44
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ieatlintalthough he does specify also in the other direction, in which case he would indeed need the power kernel23:44
oshinn900->pc->internet would never need any kernel.23:45
oshini mean, it still need default kernel.23:45
oshin:)23:45
ieatlintyeah, that was my comment23:45
oshinok23:45
ieatlintthe masquerading would be on the pc23:45
ieatlintstock kernel on n900 would work for that23:45
ieatlintyeah, we're both saying the same thing, just misunderstanding each other :P23:46
oshinheheeh23:46
intelinsidermh23:53
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