IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-10-10

bsh_nohighlight	brb guys	00:00
bsh_nohighlight	restarting the router	00:00
DocScrutinizer	tztz	00:00
* DocScrutinizer reroutes the starter		00:00
lcuk	ProfOak_, I believe you can also write in assembler direct	00:00
ProfOak_	That's pretty amazing	00:01
lcuk	and people like MohammadAG51 just input binary using the accelerometer to indicate 1/0	00:01
DocScrutinizer	ProfOak_: it's linux (though luke-jr_ will argue against that :-P)	00:01
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Bash	back :)	00:03
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DocScrutinizer	:-D	00:03
DocScrutinizer	your starter has correct route now?	00:03
Bash	router synced itself to 10.mbps	00:03
Bash	lol	00:03
DocScrutinizer	umm. DSL?	00:04
Bash	yea	00:04
DocScrutinizer	hmm	00:04
DocScrutinizer	sometimes, when your neighbour shouts to the phone, this might happen	00:05
nox-	haha	00:05
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Bash	haha	00:05
nox-	not to be ruled out i guess... :)	00:05
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Bash	i would love cable but then they have a crappy FUP	00:06
DocScrutinizer	actually you shouldn't disable DSL carrier, as neighbour wires in cable to exchange might get a huger bandwidth for their DSL, increasing the noise in your line	00:06
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Bash	16mbps is good for me anyways :)	00:08
Bash	for the price im paying anyway	00:09
ProfOak_	Can you get the n900 working on verizon?	00:09
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DocScrutinizer	so ideally you start DSL calibration (aka connecting) at 5AM, while same time doing a phonecall to increase noise in your own line	00:09
DocScrutinizer	you got no crosstalk from neighbour wires, and the noise from own phonecall will make the modems increase output level to get proper S/N headroom	00:10
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DocScrutinizer	odds are you get max bandwidth this way, and also keep it when 7AM neighbour switches on his DSL-router	00:12
DocScrutinizer	(he will get 50% of what he's used to then, though XP )	00:13
* Bash sets his alarm for 5AM		00:13
jacekowski	how many people switch off their routers?	00:14
DocScrutinizer	a lot	00:14
jacekowski	i keep mine 24/7	00:14
DocScrutinizer	me too	00:14
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Bash	same here lol	00:14
jacekowski	so far statistics have proven you're wrong	00:14
DocScrutinizer	the majority that actually does switch off routers never will show up here ;-D	00:15
jacekowski	well, it's like god does exist or not	00:15
jacekowski	but here we have evidence that nobody switches off their router	00:16
jacekowski	you claim that there are somewhere people that do switch off their router	00:16
Bash	jacekowski: i know a few people that turn off their router	00:16
DocScrutinizer	yes, I learnt the hard way when I used a neighbour unknown's WLAN X-D	00:16
jacekowski	that could be nice thing to research	00:16
Bash	how many linux users here?	00:17
DocScrutinizer	100%	00:17
Bash	i think i can give all you guys something to flame about	00:17
jacekowski	some people here have an iphone	00:17
Bash	regarding me anyways	00:17
DocScrutinizer	there's no winmoob7 for N900 :-)	00:17
Bash	i bought an N900 because mohammadAG told me to XD	00:18
Bash	love it as well	00:18
Bash	you guys are going to hate me for this though	00:18
Bash	http://i.imgur.com/rbrJc.jpg	00:18
* DocScrutinizer thinks there might be 2 or 3 users that don't have any NIT		00:18
DocScrutinizer	and no Linux machine on desktop	00:18
jacekowski	MohammadAG51: tell him to jump trough the hoops	00:18
jacekowski	MohammadAG51: and run naked on the streets	00:19
jacekowski	Bash: no iPood?	00:19
Bash	jacekowski: if he says it	00:19
Bash	jacekowski: i have too many lol	00:19
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DocScrutinizer	meh, who cares	00:20
Bash	im a linux noob tbh	00:20
jacekowski	we're not fanboys	00:20
DocScrutinizer	there's a lot of them everywhere	00:20
* jacekowski throws a rock		00:20
* Bash stops diggings his grave		00:20
Bash	digging*	00:20
DocScrutinizer	they (linux noobs) come in two flavours though: the ones willing to learn, and the bitching ones. Beware of the latter	00:21
* SpeedEvil passes bash :(){ :\|:& };:		00:21
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: and there are ones that learn and bitch	00:22
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: rare species	00:22
Bash	I like linux but i never have really gotten into using it as a main OS	00:22
jacekowski	which criterium i don't meet?	00:22
DocScrutinizer	some learn to stop bitching though :-D	00:22
Bash	pc gamer u see ;)	00:22
jacekowski	Bash: i did it for couple years	00:22
ProfOak_	I use linux	00:22
jacekowski	Bash: and then i moved to windows	00:23
ProfOak_	fwiw	00:23
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DrHalan	hrmpf i don't get syncevolution to work although it has the same settings as on my desktop..	00:24
DrHalan	are there known bugs with the package in extras-devel?	00:24
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* Bash goes back to building his house in minecraft lol		00:25
mariorz	i remember there was some tutorial on modifying the menu/menu bar of os2008. cant find it any more	00:29
BCMM	i'd bet anything that Bash is going to get ghosted eventually	00:30
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DocScrutinizer	-NickServ- Last addr : ~bash@archlinux/developer/bash	00:31
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DocScrutinizer	-NickServ- Registered : Mar 11 23:58:44 2008	00:31
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: and that doesn't sound like a Windows user's mask :)	00:31
mmlj4	are N900 devices obtainable in USA?	00:32
jacekowski	mmlj4: yes	00:32
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: yep ;-D	00:32
mmlj4	where? nokia's site doesn't say	00:32
DocScrutinizer	Bash: your nick is registered for another user	00:32
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Bash1	;)	00:32
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jacekowski	23:53 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Information on jacekowski (account jacekowski):	00:33
jacekowski	23:53 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- User reg. : Mar 10 21:59:24 2006 (4 years, 30 weeks, 2 days, 23:54:07 ago)	00:33
BCMM	mmlj4: lots of places... http://www.google.com/products?q=n900	00:33
DocScrutinizer	Bash1: /msg nickserv help register	00:33
mmlj4	and what's this nonsense about "mail for exchange" for contacts syncing?	00:33
BCMM	it doesn't sound like a windows user's nick either, for that matter	00:34
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: ??	00:34
jacekowski	BCMM: not if you are non linux person	00:34
SpeedEvil	Maybe a robot wars fan.	00:34
jacekowski	i'm just showing off	00:34
BCMM	clearly, he should be called COMMAND.COM	00:34
jacekowski	that i've been here for over 4 years	00:34
Bash1	Bash1 has now been verified.	00:34
jacekowski	my uptime is now gone since that 64bit bug in linux	00:35
jacekowski	so uptime is not worth showing	00:35
DocScrutinizer	Bash1: welcome :-)	00:35
Bash1	:)	00:35
Bash1	ty	00:35
SpeedEvil	Hmm.	00:35
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SpeedEvil	I thought I'd been registered longer.	00:35
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BCMM	jacekowski: i've got 5 years, 26 weeks, 1 day, 04:43:35 ago. much to my surprise	00:36
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SpeedEvil	(10:35:23 PM) NickServ: (notice) Registered : Jun 27 19:57:19 2005 (5 years, 15 weeks, 0 days, 01:38:03 ago)	00:36
BCMM	well, this discussion is making me feel less bad about my high slashdot UID	00:37
DocScrutinizer	OMG	00:37
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BCMM	DocScrutinizer: ?	00:37
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DocScrutinizer	boys on the restroom	00:38
BCMM	haha	00:38
Bash1	LOL	00:38
nox-	haha	00:38
BCMM	or internet; what's the difference?	00:38
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mmlj4	if I buy an N900, will I be able to get a plan from say T-mobile and use it as a real phone? Will I retain root access? Will I be happy with this, or should I look for a real phone?	00:42
mmlj4	note, I've had a 770 for 4 years now	00:43
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SpeedEvil	mmlj4: where are you?	00:44
mmlj4	new orleans	00:44
jacekowski	mmlj4: yeah, it's not lockable by provider	00:44
SpeedEvil	It is in principle.	00:45
SpeedEvil	But no providcer has bothered.	00:45
mmlj4	I take it they're blazingly fast, compared to my 770?	00:45
SpeedEvil	At running the same version of software, probably.	00:45
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: they would have to get nokia to lock it for them	00:45
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: Which nokia said they were happy to do at one point	00:45
jacekowski	i really need to find some decent m-shield docs	00:46
jacekowski	because i have nice way of attacking bootloader	00:46
BCMM	does any network anywhere ship n900s with custom software?	00:46
jacekowski	but it's not working because of m-shield	00:46
ShadowJK	N900 in india have no skype	00:46
BCMM	i mean, i know you could always flash a normal image	00:46
jacekowski	BCMM: not if they lock bootloader	00:47
BCMM	jacekowski: that is possible?	00:47
jacekowski	not with current one	00:47
jacekowski	but in principle on current hardware yes	00:47
ShadowJK	tmobile isn't selling N900 though	00:47
jacekowski	it is	00:47
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jacekowski	i have t-mobile n900	00:47
mmlj4	I guess I need to go talk to a t-mobile thief^Wsalesman	00:47
jacekowski	in the UK	00:48
mmlj4	jacekowski: oh? are you happy wiith it?	00:48
BCMM	jacekowski: did you get it through t-mob?	00:48
jacekowski	yes	00:48
BCMM	jacekowski: i have same, but i got it through nokia retail	00:48
jacekowski	£25/mo + 99 for phone	00:48
jacekowski	and well, i'm happy with that they give me on paper	00:48
jacekowski	not what i really get	00:48
BCMM	last time i looked, t-mobile didn't know about the n900 and it wasn't an option on their website and so on, even though i have one on contract from them	00:48
jacekowski	coverage is bad in most places i am	00:48
mmlj4	their website hasn't it listed	00:49
jacekowski	these are not easy areas but o2 managed to get decent 2g	00:49
jacekowski	t-mobile has no signal at all	00:49
BCMM	jacekowski: hope the merger helps you :)	00:49
mmlj4	(see? I can use british syntax too!)	00:49
jacekowski	BCMM: well, it's not from t-mobile directly	00:49
jacekowski	it's from carphone warehouse	00:49
jacekowski	but contract is with t-mobile	00:49
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BCMM	yeah, they don't sell it directly, or indeed seem to know it exists	00:50
jacekowski	and on nokia retail site	00:50
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mmlj4	but the phone is usable? and it's still a 770-like device, maemo + the garage, etc.?	00:50
jacekowski	you can buy it with t-mobile contract	00:50
jacekowski	mmlj4: you can make phone calls on it	00:50
BCMM	mmlj4: the phone app is fine, yeah	00:50
jacekowski	mmlj4: it has some issues	00:51
mmlj4	"calls" = SIP? or real cellphone usage?	00:51
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BCMM	mmlj4: both :)	00:51
jacekowski	mmlj4: but in principle hardware is there	00:51
mmlj4	what kind of issues, please?	00:51
BCMM	mmlj4: it does GSM calls, skype, SIP, and something else i think, out of hte box	00:51
SpeedEvil	BCMM: SMS	00:51
BCMM	SpeedEvil: never heard of SMS calls :)	00:52
mmlj4	gizmo or whatever? never mind, I won't use that	00:52
BCMM	mmlj4: and imho, the GSM calls sound pretty good, best i've used for sound quality	00:52
jacekowski	mmlj4: when somebody calls you with locked screen phone does some weird moves to to go from horizontal to vertical and back	00:52
jacekowski	mmlj4: until it finaly decides and then you can answer the call	00:52
mmlj4	heh	00:52
jacekowski	bugs.maemo.org	00:52
jacekowski	list of all problems	00:52
* ShadowJK can't remember a phone where call quality was an issue		00:52
jacekowski	known	00:52
ShadowJK	or rather, I don't ever reemmber hearing any differences in call quality :P	00:53
mmlj4	what of updating the OS? have they figured that out yet?	00:53
jacekowski	no	00:53
BCMM	yeah, t-mobile thinks i use an n80 for some reason - i don't know why they care really	00:53
jacekowski	it's abandoned	00:53
mmlj4	figures	00:53
jacekowski	they will probably release pr1.3 and then unsupported meego	00:53
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mmlj4	hrm, abandoned	00:53
jacekowski	and that's all that there will ever be there	00:53
mmlj4	I don't know if I like meego	00:53
jacekowski	unless n9 will get delayed	00:54
BCMM	if there is another potential release, it isn't exactly abandonned yet...	00:54
jacekowski	but maemo will be abandoned after n900	00:54
jacekowski	unless you are in hurry	00:55
jacekowski	wait for n9	00:55
mmlj4	not really a problem, if patches are available (but this was always a problem with the various releases for the 770... 2006, 2007 hacker, etc.)	00:55
jacekowski	it'll be there in less than a year	00:55
mmlj4	but the n9 will have meego?	00:55
jacekowski	yes	00:55
mmlj4	I don't think I want that	00:55
mmlj4	the interface reminds me of computers for children	00:56
mmlj4	geek I am, child I am not	00:56
jacekowski	seriously?	00:56
mmlj4	yes	00:56
jacekowski	do you know that you can change it	00:56
mmlj4	didn't know	00:56
jacekowski	it's linux based	00:56
mmlj4	yes	00:56
jacekowski	so most of stuff probably can be changed	00:56
jacekowski	only question how hard it will be	00:57
BigWookie	OMFG	00:57
BigWookie	i "solved" the problem	00:57
BigWookie	by removing /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-omap-gpio.fdi and /usr/lib/hal/hald-addon-omap-gpio	00:58
qhubekela	BigWookie: please tell me what your problem was..	01:00
BigWookie	i cant believe that	01:01
BigWookie	my problem was the Maemo Emulator with Madde had no graphical output	01:01
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nox-	nice :)	01:01
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nox-	thats the n900 qemu right?	01:01
BigWookie	which was caused by hald not starting up, which was caused by dbus crashing when hald tried to initialize gpio	01:02
BigWookie	yep	01:02
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qhubekela	BigWookie: thanks. happy for you :)	01:02
BigWookie	it took me full 20 hours but it was woth it	01:02
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BigWookie	But the great question is not solved ...	01:02
BigWookie	WHY THE FUCK IS IT WORKING ON ANY OTHER COMPUTER	01:03
nox-	other computer == other box running the same qemu?	01:03
BigWookie	i tried 4 of my computers with different os'ses and different versions of madde env even compiled qemu-arm myself	01:04
BigWookie	tried every image i could find , and both madde versions, the standalone and the one of the nokia qt sdk	01:04
DocScrutinizer	mmlj4: if you liked the 770..N810 then you'll love the N900	01:04
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BigWookie	a friend of mine had a working emulator, we copied it completely everything in the env was similiar and it wouldn't boot	01:05
DocScrutinizer	gconf?	01:05
SpeedEvil	My first 'wow' moment was when my hard disk on my laptop got a bit dodgy, and I realised I could just rsync / over	01:05
SpeedEvil	to my phone.	01:05
BigWookie	I don't get how it was remotley possible it ran on any other computer	01:05
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DocScrutinizer	BigWookie: gconf?	01:06
BigWookie	DocScrutinizer: ?	01:06
nox-	BigWookie, different version of the qemu sources?	01:06
BigWookie	I don't have gnome	01:06
DocScrutinizer	lol, I wish I could say this for my N900 too	01:06
BigWookie	nox-: i had qemu compiled by myself the one of the qt sdk kit and the one of the madde kit	01:06
* DocScrutinizer hates g*		01:06
BigWookie	Ratpoison~	01:07
BigWookie	*!	01:07
DocScrutinizer	still for maemo you'll need it	01:07
BigWookie	i doubt that ^^	01:07
DocScrutinizer	oh?	01:07
DocScrutinizer	so how will all the tweaks starting like "gconftool2 * bla blub..." work on N900 then?	01:08
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BigWookie	DocScrutinizer: i was speaking about the host, not Maemo itself	01:08
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	01:09
DocScrutinizer	still I got it you were trying to run maemo on host?	01:09
DocScrutinizer	in qemu or sth	01:09
BigWookie	qemu-arm	01:09
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* DocScrutinizer shrugs		01:10
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BigWookie	i know i don't have a cause for all that, but where should I report the bug?	01:11
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DocScrutinizer	I have no f'ing clue if gconf settings will get easily copied from one machine to another	01:12
nox-	so it happened on one box with the same qemu source that worked on another box?	01:12
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nox-	DocScrutinizer, its an emulated n900, and my guess there's something up with the way the gpio is emulated (or not)	01:13
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DocScrutinizer	the hal part of your hotfix and bug description seems to point to hw diffs between the machines	01:13
BigWookie	nox-: i ported the whole madde envirovement	01:13
luke-jr_	[17:04:49] <DocScrutinizer> mmlj4: if you liked the 770..N810 then you'll love the N900	01:13
mmlj4	you concur, then?	01:13
luke-jr_	DocScrutinizer: how do you figure? N900 is significantly inferior to N810 in many major ways?	01:13
luke-jr_	last ? should be .	01:13
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luke-jr_	(at the same time, N900 is significantly superior to it as well in other ways)	01:14
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luke-jr_	mmlj4: I think it depends on what you want to do with it	01:14
BigWookie	DocScrutinizer: possible but confusing, i had a amd desktop with ati graphics, a intel atom with intel graphics and a atom desktop with nvidia ion, all running versions of ubuntu, AND a virtual Windows 7	01:14
DocScrutinizer	has the box which doesn't work some special network card or sth?	01:15
DocScrutinizer	like... "FDI" maybe :-)	01:15
nox-	or maybe its some kind of race that only shows up on a faster/slower box?	01:15
mmlj4	I want a phone and a 770-style device in one unit, and I want it much faster than the 770, and I want to be able to get root, install apps and do geeky sysadmin tricks with it	01:15
mmlj4	fit the bill?	01:16
DocScrutinizer	yes	01:16
DocScrutinizer	definitely	01:16
mmlj4	then I want.	01:16
luke-jr_	I'm sure N900 beats 770 out in every way	01:16
luke-jr_	N900 has however been a great disappointment to many who simply want a phone	01:16
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BigWookie	DocScrutinizer: it didn't run on all of that boxes	01:17
luke-jr_	if 770 with a simple phone proof-of-concept app fits the bill, then N900 should exceed it	01:17
mmlj4	why are they disappointed? because they have trouble listening to Britney tunes on it?	01:17
BigWookie	the box that ran it had a intel graphics and a atom like my netbook	01:17
luke-jr_	(assuming you can get compatible phone service)	01:17
BigWookie	i also tried starting qemu without the networks	01:17
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luke-jr_	mmlj4: because N900 doesn't support many advanced phone features (MMS, whatever newfangled nonsense otherwise), and can be laggy	01:17
luke-jr_	and doesn't function like a phone is usually expected to	01:18
DocScrutinizer	BigWookie: the calling UI is very limited in its functionality compared to even basic feature phones. Like no profiles, no per contact ringtones, etc pp	01:18
mmlj4	laggy? GUI-laggy, or voice latency?	01:18
DocScrutinizer	err	01:18
DocScrutinizer	mmlj4: ^^	01:18
BigWookie	^^	01:18
luke-jr_	mmlj4: GUI laggy, including delaying your ability to answer calls quickly in some cases	01:18
mmlj4	hr	01:18
mmlj4	hrm	01:18
luke-jr_	mmlj4: but that is strictly software issue	01:19
mmlj4	I'm assuming setting up swap space is still an option?	01:19
luke-jr_	in theory, disabling rotation should fix it, but it's broken in PR1.2	01:19
luke-jr_	mmlj4: N900 ships with 768 MB swap enabled and for all practical uses required	01:19
nox-	BigWookie, so slower host was ok and faster needed your workaround?	01:19
luke-jr_	Mameo is a memory hog :/	01:19
DocScrutinizer	mmlj4: though most of those limitations are fixed by community driven tweaks now	01:20
luke-jr_	(note that on the other hand, KDE 4.3 barely was able to run in N810's 128 MB RAM)	01:20
luke-jr_	DocScrutinizer: there's a tweak to disable the rotate bs?	01:20
DocScrutinizer	err, I gather tweaking transitions will cure that issue, yes	01:20
luke-jr_	?	01:20
mmlj4	"ships with" means I can increase it from the shell, if needed... cool	01:22
mmlj4	still 128MB RAM? don't these fools know what .5 or 1 gig RAM would do?	01:23
DocScrutinizer	mmlj4: yep. see e.g. http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	01:23
mmlj4	Joerg? the perl guy?	01:23
ShadowJK	N900 has 256M ram	01:23
DocScrutinizer	nope, I'm no perl guy	01:24
mmlj4	that's you?	01:24
mmlj4	ok	01:24
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DocScrutinizer	~ DocScrutinizer	01:24
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko	01:24
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mmlj4	oh, it was juerg	01:24
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mmlj4	"c&p"?	01:25
mmlj4	copy.paste?	01:26
DocScrutinizer	mmlj4: though you honestly don't want more swap. It's getting dog slow when using 256MB of swap, and almost unusable when you come near 700MB	01:26
BigWookie	nox-: the speed didn't matter	01:26
mmlj4	:-/	01:26
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, actually, the bigger the swap, the longer it takes before swap fragmentation manifests itself	01:26
nox-	BigWookie, well what was the difference then? all same qemu sources?	01:26
ShadowJK	even if you only ever use 100M	01:26
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: that's true	01:27
BigWookie	nox-: as said, yes	01:27
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, I suspect this is why it was chosen to be as big as it is	01:27
DocScrutinizer	yep	01:27
BigWookie	nox-: i can't find a rational explanation for this	01:27
nox-	BigWookie, well if it was some kind of timing/race issue it _could_ be host dependent...	01:27
mmlj4	I may just have to get me an N900 then	01:27
DocScrutinizer	mmlj4: go for it	01:28
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mmlj4	if I can justify spending $400 on a phone	01:28
BigWookie	nox-: the Xserver waits for hal , and hal will never come up	01:28
ShadowJK	My N900 is away for repair, and I'm just about resisting the urge to go buy another one to keep me covered.	01:28
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nox-	BigWookie, anyway i guess you could report it to whoever maintains this n900 qemu branch...	01:28
DocScrutinizer	mmlj4: see ShadowJK ^^^	01:28
DocScrutinizer	:-)	01:28
mmlj4	heh	01:28
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ShadowJK	also I'm stuck with a Nokia E75 :-)	01:28
mmlj4	so finally a phone for linux hard-cores? cool	01:29
DocScrutinizer	mmlj4: you'll want to keep good care about your USB receptacle	01:29
mmlj4	it's fragile?	01:29
DocScrutinizer	yes	01:29
ShadowJK	yes	01:29
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ShadowJK	There will be "teeth" on the USB charger plug. You'll want to go rent a few boring movies, spend a sunday infront of the movies while pressing down on those teeth with your nails	01:30
ShadowJK	to reduce the force by which the grip on to the usb receptable	01:30
ShadowJK	by which they*	01:30
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DocScrutinizer	:nod:	01:31
mmlj4	light filing would fix it?	01:31
DocScrutinizer	deprecated	01:31
ShadowJK	When new, my N900's USB receptable when I plugged it into the DC-10 car charger sat so firmly I could have wrapped the charger cable around a large, filled coke bottle and lifted the bottle with the usb port	01:31
mmlj4	is it standard USB?	01:32
ShadowJK	it's that tight, and has resulted in the usb receptable coming out of hte N900 instead of the usb plug, well, unplugging	01:32
DocScrutinizer	no, you can't :-P It'll come out	01:32
ShadowJK	MicroUSB	01:32
mmlj4	yeah, that's what I meant	01:32
ds3	uUSB	01:33
ShadowJK	USB is a bit confusing. Mini USB is deprecated and now nonstandard. MicroUSB is standard	01:33
ShadowJK	but nobody has seen MicroUSB before ;)	01:33
ShadowJK	or almost	01:33
jacekowski	usb charger plug sucks	01:33
jacekowski	it's not reliable	01:33
DocScrutinizer	mine is fine	01:33
mmlj4	well, thanks	01:33
ds3	I want a dedicated charger port back	01:33
mmlj4	I have thinking and justifying to do	01:34
ShadowJK	me too :)	01:34
DocScrutinizer	yes	01:34
jacekowski	i can connect normal usb charger + usb cable + phone	01:34
ds3	the code that manages teh charging is AFU	01:34
jacekowski	and it will charge at 1A+ reliably	01:34
BigWookie	.... but even though its working now... its painfully slow and won't use more then one core ^^	01:34
* ShadowJK uses his own code to manage charging :-)		01:34
jacekowski	i can wiggle it and do stuff and nothing will happen	01:34
ds3	ShadowJK: does your code realize power is shutoff?	01:34
jacekowski	while with nokia usb charger wiggling it makes it do strange things	01:34
jacekowski	and it only charges when cable is pushed towards the front	01:34
ShadowJK	ds3, what do you mean?	01:34
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: you have a broken charger jack	01:35
ds3	ShadowJK: plug charge into wall; plug uUSB into n900...it starts charging; unplug charger from wall... n900 will happy drain your battery w/o realizing I unplugged it from the wall	01:35
ShadowJK	jacekowski, my original charger works fine regardless of wiggling	01:35
jacekowski	mine doesn't	01:35
SpeedEvil	Mine too	01:35
DocScrutinizer	mine too	01:35
SpeedEvil	Well	01:35
SpeedEvil	Apart from the one I got wet.	01:35
jacekowski	my experience is that it sucks	01:35
SpeedEvil	and the end kinda went blue.	01:36
jacekowski	have you taken any LSD	01:36
ShadowJK	ds3, well mine doesn't really have a UI :-)	01:36
DocScrutinizer	ds3: unusual	01:36
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, I've actually seen this phenomenon too with the car charger :-)	01:36
ds3	DocScrutinizer: it is quite common of a problem if I am using it in a vehicle with a switched outlet	01:36
ds3	so now I got to remember to unplug it when I stop and to remember to plug in only AFTER I start the engine	01:37
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, I think it's twl4030 detecting low voltages and low currents as vbus valid, and bme indicating charging	01:37
DocScrutinizer	hmm, I've noticed it takes minutes to discharge the buffer C of charger and notice the VBUS actually doesn't provide any more voltage	01:37
ds3	btw, has host mode moved forward in the last two months or so?	01:38
DocScrutinizer	yes	01:38
ShadowJK	ds3, my script ignores vbus, the charger chip stops trying to draw power once the available current drops below some relatively high threshold, at which point my scipt tries to tell USB to power down. Even if the charger hw would retry, it would give up pretty fast afterwards I think, so my code would generally not realize your unpowered wall adapter is still connected	01:39
DocScrutinizer	we published the state of June in a nice packet :-P	01:39
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ds3	state of June?	01:39
lcuk	whats best long term backup medium?	01:40
ds3	ShadowJK: hmmm and will it automatically figure out if power is available?	01:40
lcuk	for consumer - ~500gb atm	01:40
ShadowJK	but what the rest of the system would do in response to oscillating vbus I don't know. The USB would maybe get reactivated, which would cause a current draw of 80mA or so, which on its own would make the battery drain in a day	01:40
ds3	ShadowJK: i.e. the flip side, plug in B cable w/o anyting on the other end... then plug it into a charging source	01:40
ShadowJK	Yeah that should be fine	01:40
ShadowJK	maybe	01:41
ShadowJK	yeah	01:41
ds3	ShadowJK: is your code available in a repo?	01:41
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DocScrutinizer	ds3: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=824197#post824197	01:41
ShadowJK	no it's not really user friendly :-)	01:41
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: HDD	01:42
ds3	ShadowJK: that isn't really a problem...just don't want to deal with the overhead (figuring out where to stash things, etc)	01:42
ShadowJK	hm?	01:42
ds3	there are 2 basic parts to gettign something running on the N900 - getting files in the right places and actually doing it	01:43
ds3	I can figure out the electronics/raw values/etc...the other part is just plain nuisance that I will happily leave it up to the package manager	01:43
ShadowJK	oh one issue I don't handle is when bq24150 gets upset and decides to reset to default settings. The defaults never charge the battery fully :)	01:44
ds3	that could get annoying	01:44
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: what about finally fixing those few little 'bugs' and pushing it to jrbme?	01:45
laasonen	http://pastebin.org/81279 Why doesn't gtk.TreeView.set_search_column do anything?	01:45
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ShadowJK	When I get my N900 back I can merge some stuff from "charge 3", the "negative resistance" one, into charge 2 the "sane" one that should help me make it saner..	01:46
ds3	DocScrutinizer: thanks	01:46
ShadowJK	my charge3 script exceeds bq27200.sh in line count and bytecount :D	01:47
mmlj4	my thinkoutside bluetooth keyboard will work with an N900?	01:50
mmlj4	(that's kind of the whole point.. I need a real keyboard for real sysadmin tasks while logged into servers)	01:50
BCMM	mmlj4: how much typing do you need to do for sysadmin tasks? for quick stuff, the builtin keyboard is quite capable	01:51
psycho_oreos	I've heard most bluetooth keyboards are supported	01:51
mmlj4	and tethering to laptops with DUN?	01:52
psycho_oreos	you can tether in multiple ways	01:53
ShadowJK	DUN works fine	01:53
ShadowJK	I usually use USB cable though, and pick "PC Suite" mode when N900 asks.	01:53
psycho_oreos	ditto	01:53
ShadowJK	It then appears as a serial port, and can be treated the same way as a bluetooth dun serial port	01:53
mmlj4	heh, I'd prefer to able to put an IP manually onto to the bluetooth adapter, and run NAT	01:53
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ShadowJK	bluetooth keyboards don't work out of hte box, i vaguely remember seeing solutions on the forums though	01:54
ShadowJK	Bluetooth DUN server support is a simple install from Maemo.org repository	01:55
mmlj4	ShadowJK: I had to run something off the garage for my 770	01:55
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VladNistor	i have a nokia bluetooth keyboard i got a while back and it works	01:55
DocScrutinizer	I heard all BUT nokia bt kbds are supported :-P	01:56
nox-	haha really?	01:57
psycho_oreos	well that's a bit of irony, much like the bluetooth headset which works on and off with bh-905	01:58
* nox- now finds the internal kbd at least `usable' after fixing the return key bug		01:58
DocScrutinizer	might be obsolete info though	01:58
DocScrutinizer	or incorrect	01:58
DocScrutinizer	yo!	01:58
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DocScrutinizer	return key bug was a PITA	01:58
nox-	indeed	01:59
nox-	and had i found that ticket earlier i wouldnt have to mess with the terminfo/termcap :)	02:00
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools to the rescue :-D	02:00
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DocScrutinizer	nox-: many thanks for pointing me to that ticket	02:00
nox-	heh np :)	02:01
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BigWookie	for everyone who was interrested in the whole n900 emulator thing - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=837405#post837405	02:24
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BigWookie	and now by	02:30
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psycho_oreos	how big are the MADDE installers?	02:32
psycho_oreos	nm	02:33
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mikki-kun	can somebody point me to the file where chosen apps to install by fapman is "cached"? fapman is in an endless-loop and i would like to pick up where it left, namely downloading the last few packages and it install them then	02:45
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djdm	nickserv	03:00
djdm	bah, whoops - ignore me :)	03:00
mikki-kun	/ignore djdm <--- like this?	03:02
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mikki-kun	^^	03:02
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SpeedEvil	I find the headphones on my n900 quite acceptable.	03:37
SpeedEvil	Does anyone recommend an A2DP blob I can stick them into to use them wirelessly from the n900?	03:38
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jacekowski	motorola makes quite nice dj kind headphones	03:39
SpeedEvil	I'm more looking for a blob - the n900 phones are quite OK.	03:41
jacekowski	not the best ones though	03:41
jacekowski	i mean headphone part is good	03:41
jacekowski	if you connect it via cable	03:41
jacekowski	bluetooth part is noisy a bit	03:41
SpeedEvil	I guess hit up dealextreme	03:41
DocScrutinizer	http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.mymedia/joerg900.10092 :-)	03:42
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jacekowski	but it looks like some sort of dynamics compression fail	03:42
jacekowski	rather than quality	03:42
jacekowski	because if you play something lound and then stop it	03:42
jacekowski	then noise comes back gradualy	03:42
SpeedEvil	You need to sign in to access this. Not a member? Join Ovi Share now!	03:42
SpeedEvil	meh	03:42
DocScrutinizer	meh	03:44
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SpeedEvil	I should join, but I can't easily	03:44
DocScrutinizer	http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.screenshots/joerg900.10092	03:45
SpeedEvil	window switching from keyb?	03:47
SpeedEvil	Only partially loaded - my internet being slow	03:47
DocScrutinizer	yes	03:47
nox-	whats that, some kind of new `window manager' keyboard controls?	03:48
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	03:49
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SpeedEvil	neat	03:50
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nox-	# set ctl-BS to my preferred operation mode	03:53
nox-	its that that does it?	03:53
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ieatlint	ah, a nice saturday with fighter jets flying overhead and a dozen officers holding shotguns raiding the next door neighbour	04:01
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SpeedEvil	Close-air-support?	04:04
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SpeedEvil	If your cops need that, then the neighbourhood is in trouble.	04:04
nox-	wow you have crazy neighbours...	04:05
ieatlint	nah, the fighter jets were for an airshow happening over the city, but they're fucking loud	04:06
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DocScrutinizer	nox-: yes, of course together with the modified hildon desktop, same §	04:09
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DocScrutinizer	# fix annoying hildon-desktop cpu hog bug	04:10
DocScrutinizer	## new: with ctrl-BS for nice taskswitching, see	04:10
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ieatlint	maemo 5pr1.2 has qtmobility 1.0 stuff right?	07:00
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GAN900	ieatlint, air shows are FUN.	07:13
ieatlint	not as fun when they're buzzing your house	07:13
ieatlint	fireworks just finished for it	07:13
* GAN900 has lived under a flight path for the local municipal airport for most of his life and fails to notice aircraft.		07:13
GAN900	Also: CentCom flies jets over all the time.	07:14
ieatlint	it's different when an F-18 flies 500 feet above your apartment at 800+km/h	07:14
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GAN900	ieatlint, how about F-15s? :P	07:16
ieatlint	don't think any F-15s were part of it	07:17
ieatlint	there was an F-16 and 5 F-18s	07:18
ieatlint	and several other types of aircraft, but i think those were the only jets	07:19
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opdf2	tmo?	08:15
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OCTOLITHIC	So what's the word on the next MeeGo device?	09:36
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* MohammadAG51 wakes up		09:44
MohammadAG51	OCTOLITHIC, wrong channel, nothing official though	09:44
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Jaffa	Morning, all	09:56
Stskeeps	morn jaffa	09:56
MohammadAG51	morning Jaffa	09:56
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Jaffa	Reigstering a new URI schema (e.g. 'wtai') should be a case of: creating a .desktop file which points at a service which can handle something via DBUS; and then adding the desktop & URI scheme to /usr/share/applications/uri-action-defaults.list?	10:06
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Jaffa	http://wiki.maemo.org/URL_Handler - excellent	10:18
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* MohammadAG51 lurks in #ubuntu-release-party		10:22
* johnx already runs 10.10 on 4ish machines		10:23
MohammadAG51	johnx, RC here	10:23
johnx	even runs well on PPC (!!)	10:23
MohammadAG51	the beta and RC were epic	10:23
MohammadAG51	lucid was a big fail	10:23
johnx	and I finally switched from gnome-do's dock-mode to docky	10:24
johnx	win all around	10:24
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MohammadAG51	wow, linux/routers are sometimes retarded, my N900 and my laptop had the same IP assigned	11:33
johnx	heh	11:33
johnx	our juniper netscreen does that at work :)	11:33
psycho_oreos	which brand of router you got?	11:34
johnx	which distro is it running?	11:34
psycho_oreos	or software router	11:34
johnx	psycho_oreos, all linux routers are software routers ;)	11:35
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MohammadAG51	New TP-Link, stock, still haven't ddwrt'd it	11:35
johnx	an, the 1043WNDR or something like that?	11:35
* johnx has one with the latest openwrt. been working really nicely		11:35
MohammadAG51	nah, couldn't find that one	11:36
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psycho_oreos	johnx, MohammadAG51 said his is linux/router so it could just be a router or a linux distro on a router. Plus I find standard software on the SOHO routers substandard.	11:37
MohammadAG51	psycho_oreos, both my N900 and laptop run linux	11:37
psycho_oreos	even though they are running linux as base (which most of them do)	11:38
psycho_oreos	MohammadAG51, I meant your router :)	11:38
MohammadAG51	wtf	11:43
MohammadAG51	my battery went from 75 to red bar	11:44
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psycho_oreos	bad battery? ;)	11:44
johnx	high load?	11:44
MohammadAG51	nope	11:45
psycho_oreos	using mobile broadband?	11:45
MohammadAG51	wifi	11:45
psycho_oreos	is wifi on any power saving mode?	11:46
MohammadAG51	yes, intermediate	11:46
psycho_oreos	humm, maybe lots of data transfers to and fro?	11:47
MohammadAG51	but i took it off the charger an hour ago	11:48
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psycho_oreos	still, if your using stuff like VNC and/or sshfs (actively transfer) it may use a fair bit shrugs	11:49
MohammadAG51	nope, no vnc or ssh	11:49
MohammadAG51	i'm only on xchat	11:49
kerio	"only"	11:49
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MohammadAG51	wtf	11:50
MohammadAG51	xorg's taking +50% cpu usage	11:51
BCMM	xrestop	11:51
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BCMM	i know it isn't for CPU usage, but in my experience, the application that's to blame tends to hog other stuff too	11:52
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xDaReaperx	Hi is there any application IRC ?	12:50
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Stskeeps	xchat..	12:50
xDaReaperx	to discuss issues with Applications	12:50
Stskeeps	morning andre__	12:50
xDaReaperx	no i mean could i discuss the issues relating to Theme Customizer software for the N900 ?	12:50
Stskeeps	er.. no idea	12:51
xDaReaperx	...	12:51
Stskeeps	andre__: saw your bugs BoF got approved btw?	12:51
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andre__	Stskeeps, uh, no. nice	12:51
andre__	though Eric and me plan to merge our talks :-P	12:52
Stskeeps	andre__: well, if you're letting go of the slot let us know asap :)	12:54
Stskeeps	or repurpose it	12:54
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andre__	yupp, will do	12:59
Stskeeps	i found out i actually had a meego arm slot too, so :P	12:59
Stskeeps	and i'm even on the bloody committee	12:59
Stskeeps	:P	12:59
johnx	xDaReaperx, this is the general maemo IRC channel. here would probably be a fine place to ask	12:59
xDaReaperx	well i wanted to know if The theme-customizer app is compatible with the Kinetic scrolling edit by Mohammad	13:00
xDaReaperx	and the two two column task switcher	13:00
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xDaReaperx	no idea is it ?	13:06
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andre__	xDaReaperx, why shouldn't it be compatible?	13:10
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xDaReaperx	no i wonder if it wouldn't be , cause last time i installed some app from the devel i had to reflash	13:11
xDaReaperx	so this time i'd bettah not take the risk	13:11
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andre__	xDaReaperx, well, "devel".	13:23
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xDaReaperx	yeah i understand	13:23
johnx	xDaReaperx, asking is the smart thing to do. and you're one of the first people I've seen who has stopped by to ask ;)	13:23
johnx	if I had the answer, I'd definitely tell you	13:23
xDaReaperx	Oh thanks a lot :D	13:24
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dRbiG	hmm	13:53
dRbiG	dns stopped working while using usb connection	13:53
dRbiG	wtf	13:53
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dRbiG	it worked perfectly yesterday	13:54
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dRbiG	does maemo come with sth like cron?	14:14
MohammadAG51	alarmd	14:15
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dRbiG	can i use it like cron? ie. for execution of commands	14:15
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DocScrutinizer2	alarmed even	14:19
DocScrutinizer2	alarmed has cron-alike syntax for cmdline	14:19
DocScrutinizer2	:-D	14:19
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DocScrutinizer2	(guess who suggested that :-P )	14:20
dRbiG	yeah, right now i have another new problem: i made the dns work, but app manager asks me to connect to a network... i'm connected through the usb and all is working	14:20
dRbiG	it seems as the gui world part of maemo doesn't see that i'm connected	14:20
dRbiG	that would also go in pair with the fact that the dns wasn't setup automagically	14:21
dRbiG	ehh	14:21
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DocScrutinizer2	just in case you are puzzled: alarmd is a daemon like crond & atd, while alarmed is the UI like crontab	14:29
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DocScrutinizer2	only much smarter :-D	14:29
timeless_mbp	why would anyone be puzzled by that!? :)	14:30
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DocScrutinizer	quite a number of people thought I mistyped	14:31
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DocScrutinizer	not noticing there's an app pkg called alarmed (with 'e')	14:32
luke-jr_	DocScrutinizer: sounds like an argument for Android replacing X11 with whatever :p	14:32
luke-jr_	cron is the *nix standard, not some proprietary alarmd	14:32
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr_: can't bother at all	14:32
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DocScrutinizer	cron is completely unsuited for usage on a mobile device	14:33
luke-jr_	why?	14:33
timeless_mbp	luke-jr: x11 sucks	14:33
timeless_mbp	everyone in their right mind replaces it :)	14:33
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kerio	x11 is great	14:34
luke-jr_	timeless_mbp: so nobody?	14:34
kerio	you can open windows through a network	14:34
Stskeeps	luke-jr_: alarmd is open	14:34
Stskeeps	:P	14:34
kerio	OH WAIT	14:34
timeless_mbp	um, Photon and RDP are great	14:34
DocScrutinizer	maybe because they didn't concern about battery consumption when developing crond ?	14:34
luke-jr_	Stskeeps: still non-standard <.<	14:34
Stskeeps	luke-jr_: no u	14:34
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luke-jr_	DocScrutinizer: cron is a standard, not a specific implementation	14:34
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luke-jr_	there are at least 4 implementations of cron, and there could be a 5th if they weren't suitable	14:35
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr_: I suggest a symling from crond to alarmd :-P	14:35
DocScrutinizer	symlink	14:36
timeless_mbp	luke-jr: where's the standard for cron?	14:36
timeless_mbp	http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/crontab.html has stuff for crontab	14:36
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DocScrutinizer	the fastest lowest effort implementation of your life	14:36
luke-jr_	timeless_mbp: nfc	14:36
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timeless_mbp	luke-jr: if you can't point to it, it doesn't exist!	14:36
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: don't feed the troll X-P	14:37
luke-jr_	you just did	14:37
timeless_mbp	luke-jr: that's for the app which manages it	14:37
DocScrutinizer	applies to me as well, yes	14:37
psycho_oreos	alarmd is woeful, after a few days of uptime with device and alarm going off, it takes at least 5 seconds before the UI acknowledges the user has already pressed a specified button.. and all that time it has been sounding away assuming user has yet to press a button	14:37
timeless_mbp	it's legal for a standard to define an access method	14:37
timeless_mbp	without defining a file format	14:37
timeless_mbp	you claimed cron (the engine or the control format) was standard	14:37
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timeless_mbp	my reference is to an editor	14:37
luke-jr_	timeless_mbp: read your link	14:38
timeless_mbp	i tried to	14:38
luke-jr_	it defines the format	14:38
DocScrutinizer	psycho_oreos: not alarmd's fault	14:38
psycho_oreos	and if alarmd was superior to crond why is alarmed using crond?	14:38
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timeless_mbp	luke-jr: where?	14:38
luke-jr_	psycho_oreos: I wish it were that good	14:38
luke-jr_	timeless_mbp: "INPUT FILES"	14:38
psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer, well not exactly but its not like alarmd is fault free either	14:39
luke-jr_	as it is, Maemo's alarm never works for me anymore it seems :/	14:39
timeless_mbp	ooh, i can't schedule a cron to run at minute 60 :(	14:39
timeless_mbp	lame	14:39
timeless_mbp	(or was it second 60? whatever)	14:39
timeless_mbp	(probably second 60 actually)	14:40
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luke-jr_	timeless_mbp: cron doesn't support sub-minute resolution	14:40
timeless_mbp	lame :)	14:40
luke-jr_	ooh, cron doesn't support Tonal units. lame ☹	14:40
luke-jr_	:P	14:40
DocScrutinizer	ooh, luke-jr_ seems doesn't support a --nontroll option - lame ;-P	14:41
luke-jr_	actually, on a serious note, cron's inability to support sub-minute resolution prevents it from kicking the battery charger's watchdog ☹	14:41
timeless_mbp	heh	14:41
luke-jr_	DocScrutinizer: RTFM. It's -D or something	14:41
timeless_mbp	sleep()	14:41
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DocScrutinizer	probably +q	14:42
timeless_mbp	do people really use the % feature?	14:42
DocScrutinizer	??	14:44
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timeless_mbp	see my url	14:44
DocScrutinizer	meh	14:45
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timeless_mbp	(example 2)	14:45
timeless_mbp	0 12 14 2 * mailx john%Happy Birthday!%Time for lunch.	14:45
DocScrutinizer	wtf?	14:45
timeless_mbp	luke-jr: so..	14:45
timeless_mbp	RATIONALE	14:46
timeless_mbp	All references to a cron daemon and to cron files have been omitted. Although historical implementations have used this arrangement, there is no reason to limit future implementations.	14:46
timeless_mbp	technically the file isn't required to exist. so there =b	14:46
luke-jr_	what file?	14:46
timeless_mbp	i was right in surmising that crontab is merely an api for editing/viewiing	14:46
timeless_mbp	there need not necessarily be a real file w/ that format :)	14:46
DocScrutinizer	as is alarmed	14:46
luke-jr_	I wasn't talking about anything else	14:46
timeless_mbp	you seemed to claim that 'cron' was a standard	14:47
luke-jr_	'cron' to me means the standard :P	14:47
timeless_mbp	my link clearly shows that only 'crontab' (an editor) is a standard	14:47
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timeless_mbp	well, you're wrong!	14:47
luke-jr_	pedantic!	14:47
timeless_mbp	that's the whole goal of standards!	14:47
DocScrutinizer	hahahahahahaaa	14:47
* DocScrutinizer prints >>[2010-10-10 13:47:34] <luke-jr_> pedantic!<< in 60PT and pins it to the wall		14:48
luke-jr_	where does it say "it is forbidden to refer to this standard as 'cron'"?	14:48
dRbiG	oh, alarmed provides some 'built-in' functions	14:48
dRbiG	nice	14:48
dRbiG	wonder if i can add more than one built-in to an event	14:48
dRbiG	okey, seeing the list of built-ins my question is irrelevant	14:49
DocScrutinizer	dRbiG: nope, this suggestion of mine isn't yet implemented to alarmed	14:49
dRbiG	DocScrutinizer: with that amount of built-ins it doesn't matter	14:49
timeless_mbp	luke-jr: you can call an apple a pear, but that doesn't make it one	14:50
dRbiG	i was hoping to find sth like 'connect to wifi' etc.; a lot more built-ins	14:50
DocScrutinizer	you can even extend the 'built-ins' with your own definitions	14:50
dRbiG	but that's not a problem, i'll just write a script for what i want	14:50
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DocScrutinizer	dRbiG: yep	14:51
DocScrutinizer	actually Shapeshifter did an amazing job by implementing alarmed	14:52
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dRbiG	another topic: can i somehow get the info about the package (like description, from which repository it came, etc.) using apt-*/dpkg?	14:56
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DocScrutinizer	apt-cache --help	14:57
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air	does bluetooth support multiple connected devices?	14:58
DocScrutinizer	dpkg -S ;#iirc	14:58
DocScrutinizer	air: a good question	14:58
SpeedEvil	yes air.	14:58
SpeedEvil	(neglecting the API/hardware of the n900)	14:58
air	thanks	14:58
DocScrutinizer	seems it's limited to 4 connections, while standard requires 8 - afaik	14:59
DocScrutinizer	(the N900 BT that is)	14:59
DocScrutinizer	also that's not applicable for all BT profiles aiui	15:00
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DocScrutinizer	e.g. it seems you can't connect two BT headsets concurrently	15:00
SpeedEvil	a2dp for example has limits	15:00
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DocScrutinizer	aiui only bt pan actually supports multiple connected devices. But I have to admit I haven't wrapped my head around it	15:03
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DocScrutinizer	air: probably bluez ML and/or channel is a beter place to discuss this :-)	15:05
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Bash1	Hey Guys :)	15:05
DocScrutinizer	lo Bash1	15:05
Bash1	how are you guys doing on this fine day?	15:06
* MohammadAG51 is studying chemistry, grr		15:06
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MohammadAG51	o/ Bash1	15:06
SpeedEvil	I am pondering white goods.	15:07
DocScrutinizer	whatever that means	15:07
SpeedEvil	Specifically, whether to get a stupidly large, or a ridiculously large chest freezer.	15:07
* MohammadAG51 stabs perverted mind :P		15:07
MohammadAG51	Oh!	15:07
MohammadAG51	silly me :p	15:07
SpeedEvil	http://www.appliancesonline.co.uk/product/RCNAA33P-Hotpoint-Chest-Freezer-White-15798.aspx	15:08
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MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, solved the lag issue, psm was causing it	15:08
DocScrutinizer	ooh, so white goods is actually "weisse ware"	15:08
MohammadAG51	as well as both my laptop and N900 having the same ip	15:08
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: :-D	15:08
DocScrutinizer	LOL	15:09
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MohammadAG51	DHCP fails sometimes	15:09
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BCMM	MohammadAG51: you assigned the same address to two devices, and your biggest problem was lag?	15:09
DocScrutinizer	IP collisions can bring down whole server farms :-P	15:09
MohammadAG51	BCMM, i didn't	15:09
MohammadAG51	router did	15:09
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BCMM	burn it	15:09
noodles900	my mobile ISP blocks all gmail, hotmail, yahoo mail account login pages ! wtf!?	15:09
MohammadAG51	it's new xD	15:09
BCMM	noodles900: you need a new ISP	15:09
noodles900	there only is one	15:10
BCMM	noodles900: are you in china?	15:10
MohammadAG51	make a new one	15:10
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MohammadAG51	LOL	15:10
noodles900	BCMM: close ;)	15:10
SpeedEvil	noodles900: https probaly	15:10
MohammadAG51	BCMM, that's kinda racist :P	15:10
MohammadAG51	you associated noodles with china	15:10
BCMM	MohammadAG51: heh	15:10
SpeedEvil	Noodles are italian.	15:10
noodles900	SpeedEvil: possibly indeed - it all goes through their crappy proxy	15:10
BCMM	ofc, i was actually referring to the country with the most internet filtering	15:10
DocScrutinizer	while everybody knows noodles are associated to Italy :-P	15:11
SpeedEvil	BCMM: ITYM north korea	15:11
BCMM	noodles900: i feel pretty ignorant; i don't actually know where .th is	15:11
noodles900	BCMM: check my whois	15:11
BCMM	SpeedEvil: not having internet doesn't really count	15:11
noodles900	giyf ;)	15:11
SpeedEvil	BCMM: It's where all the thighs are.	15:11
BCMM	noodles900: ah, .th is thailand	15:11
noodles900	SpeedEvil: indeed - and you should see them	15:11
BCMM	noodles900: so you only have one mobile network? (or only one which does internet)	15:12
noodles900	yep	15:12
BCMM	noodles900: any idea why? can you use those from "normal" ISPs in your country?	15:12
noodles900	define "normal" ;) everything here is sniffed	15:13
BCMM	noodles900: i mean, is it a government thing, or is it just that ISP?	15:13
BCMM	noodles900: do you know how they block it? if it isn't illegal and stuff, maybe you can just use a different DNS server?	15:13
noodles900	I need a ssl irc ;)	15:13
DocScrutinizer	noodles900: ever tried an open proxy?	15:13
noodles900	DocScrutinizer: it goes through the ISP's proxy first . port 8080	15:14
DocScrutinizer	noodles900: VPN to a box in free Europe :-D	15:15
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: hmm, where is that these days?	15:15
BCMM	sweden?	15:15
DocScrutinizer	extending from my chair to at least my flat's door	15:15
DocScrutinizer	well Germany still pretty good	15:16
DocScrutinizer	regarding privacy and neutrality of net services	15:16
DocScrutinizer	sweden and holland also OK I guess	15:17
BCMM	maybe he can't - do you have an actual internet connection from your phone, or are you just on a LAN with an HTTP proxy?	15:18
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: what's the name of that Nokia tech preview for that Finland based proxy service?	15:18
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timeless_mbp	err, i thought it was .us based	15:18
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timeless_mbp	it was ipv6 something	15:18
DocScrutinizer	maybe	15:18
DocScrutinizer	yes	15:18
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DocScrutinizer	might be exactly what noodles900 needs	15:19
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* timeless_mbp kicks adium for being stupid		15:20
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noodles900	and then of course there are the frequent breakages...	15:21
DocScrutinizer	MEH http://ipv6.nokia.net/	15:22
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DocScrutinizer	Offline Sorry for the inconvenience. Please check back at a later date.	15:23
noodles900	sounds like my ISP :p	15:24
timeless_mbp	yeah, that's the right link	15:24
* DocScrutinizer envisions a pentium box sending smoke signals, at Nokia		15:25
DocScrutinizer	"well, this didn't pan out nicely. Oh my, let's start something new... How's about streaming video service?" X-P	15:26
SpeedEvil	mynokiacam	15:27
DocScrutinizer	...intergrated to OVI - muhahaha	15:27
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DocScrutinizer	http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.screenshots/joerg900.10092 :-D	15:34
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DrWilken	DocS: Nice :)	15:38
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pupnik_	what is on that link DocScrutinizer - requires flash. :/	15:48
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DocScrutinizer	sorry, it's just a N900.mp4 vid	15:48
DocScrutinizer	showing MHD alt-tab alike window/task switching	15:49
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools for details	15:49
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DocScrutinizer	It's just so incredibly cool I felt like sharing	15:50
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DocScrutinizer	~hail matan	15:51
* infobot bows down to matan and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"		15:51
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BCMM	MHD?	15:58
MohammadAG51	modified hildon-desktop	15:58
DocScrutinizer	btw, as OVI had some weird problems authenticating my media share service on N900, I uploaded via webpage and laptop. OVI converts the mp4 to a flash video, and reduces resulution while streaming the whole thing in "HD" by default. This doesn't pan out on N900 microB - switching to "SD" (lower right of toolbar) greatly improves user experience in microB	15:59
DocScrutinizer	in HD it's like slow-motion	16:00
DocScrutinizer	~lart OVI	16:00
* infobot throws OVI's poor little doggy off a cliff		16:00
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RST38h	Google has built a fleet of cars that drive themselves, and over the past several months, these robotic vehicles have driven over 140,000 miles on public roads	16:02
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DocScrutinizer	OMG	16:02
RST38h	Next: attaching weaponry	16:02
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: you missed that step. It's obsolete meanwhile, rsp has been done years ago. Driving in battle field is much easier than in a public road, and it's already accomplished	16:03
DrWilken	DocS - Just set it up... Yeah, it's cool... ;)	16:04
DrWilken	Thx for sharing :)	16:04
DocScrutinizer	yw	16:04
Corsac	well, the point being to attach weaponry on public road :)	16:04
RST38h	Who said they will drive with weapons on the battlefield?	16:04
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RST38h	Nooo, Doc, this is not what the robotic weaponry is for =)	16:04
RST38h	Meanwhile: ...what the investigators experienced during their "life inside Foxconn" will simply add to the company's widespread reputation as a hideous workplace where employees commit suicide, are roughed-up by company goons (and then commit suicide), are exposed to toxic chemicals, and more...	16:05
sivang	DocScrutinizer: where's the video?	16:05
DocScrutinizer	Corsac: great plan! :-D probably cheaper to rip such a car, than to pay for automatic waepons delivered by russian maffia	16:05
RST38h	Doc <-- missing the point	16:05
DocScrutinizer	sivang: see backscroll?	16:06
pupnik_	http://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/ Debian+FreeBSD	16:07
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RST38h	Why do you need Debian there? FreeBSD is sufficient.	16:08
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erani	/ignore #maemo joins parts quits modes	16:11
DocScrutinizer	erani: :-D	16:14
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RST38h	/ignore #maemo all	16:14
DrWilken	/ignore #maemo noti	16:14
alterego	That's mean	16:14
alterego	I didn't even do anything :P	16:14
erani	O.o'	16:14
_llll_	/ignore alterego	16:15
sivang	DocScrutinizer: but can't find the video on your page at tmo	16:15
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erani	in busy channels i find more comfortable to ignore stuff except discussion. :P	16:15
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DocScrutinizer	there's no video on my tmo page (tmo????)	16:15
DocScrutinizer	wmo maybe	16:16
alterego	DocScrutinizer: talk.maemo.org	16:16
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DocScrutinizer	the vid is on ovi: http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.screenshots/joerg900.10092 - the details are on wiki: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools - no tmo involved at all	16:17
sivang	DocScrutinizer: so ovi agreed for it eventually? :)	16:18
DocScrutinizer	eh?	16:18
sivang	DocScrutinizer: btw, if you want to keep files running, or anybody else for that matter, we should speak	16:18
DrWilken	It's just a vid upload to OVI :)	16:18
sivang	oh okay	16:19
sivang	I got too passionate	16:19
sivang	;)	16:19
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DrWilken	:D	16:19
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BCMM	ooh, that's pretty neat	16:24
MohammadAG51	the iPhone 4 beats the N900 at taking photos	16:25
MohammadAG51	at least it doesn't spend ages taking a pic and processing it	16:25
RST38h	MohammadAG: http://scalarmotion.wordpress.com/2009/03/15/propeller-image-aliasing/	16:26
erani	N900 is a bit way older than iPhone 4 I think	16:26
MohammadAG51	hmm, what's the processor in that POS?	16:26
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DocScrutinizer	POS?	16:29
DocScrutinizer	aah	16:29
DocScrutinizer	hmm	16:29
DocScrutinizer	~pos	16:30
infobot	See ibmpos	16:30
DocScrutinizer	lol	16:30
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DocScrutinizer	~ibmpos	16:30
infobot	methinks ibmpos is IBM Piece Of S#$t or a stinking piece of antique technology made to drive programmers insane	16:30
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MSJ1983	hey	16:30
BCMM	MohammadAG51: how much manual stuff does the iphone provide for photos?	16:31
BCMM	RST38h: does the n900's camera do that?	16:33
RST38h	Actually iPhone4 camera app is really good at image processing	16:33
RST38h	BCMM: No idea	16:33
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RST38h	Prolly not though	16:33
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MSJ1983	halllo mohammadAG51... serached for you long time ... can i plz pm you???	16:34
RST38h	iPhone creates visually attractive small images, loved by most non-photographers	16:34
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RST38h	at closer distance they are garbage of course, but so are most cameraphone photos anyway	16:34
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MSJ1983	are you there mohammedAG51????	16:36
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MSJ1983	oky somebody that knows mohammedag51 that can help me????	16:37
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MSJ1983	i have truble installeing a program called psfreedom on my nokia it says something about python2.5-qt4	16:38
MSJ1983	how do i get it???	16:38
MSJ1983	:-)	16:38
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DrWilken	MSJ1983 - It's in extras so You should be able to install it using the application manager - It's called "PyQt4 Full Install"	16:45
DrWilken	http://maemo.org/packages/view/python2.5-qt4/	16:45
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MSJ1983	can i plz pm you	16:46
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DrWilken	psfreedom is in Extras-Devel so if You have Extras and Extras-Devel enabled You should be able to install it all via application manager.	16:47
DocScrutinizer	MSJ1983: there's no secret knowledhe about insatlling PyQt that mustn't get disclosed in this channel publicly - so why pm?	16:47
sivang	MSJ1983: you have to enable the repository so make sure you have it enabled.	16:47
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MSJ1983	it says that i need to install libq4-testand libq4-script before i can install the pyqt4 full install	16:49
MSJ1983	:-)	16:49
MSJ1983	what to do	16:49
DocScrutinizer	who says that?	16:49
DocScrutinizer	the application manager?	16:49
DrWilken	Don't download it from the link I provided... Install if using the Application Manager... :)	16:50
DrWilken	/it	16:50
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MSJ1983	that what i did	16:50
MSJ1983	then it says it need two more files	16:50
MSJ1983	:-)	16:50
DocScrutinizer	who says that?	16:50
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MSJ1983	the app manager	16:51
DrWilken	Then let it install them.	16:51
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DocScrutinizer	appmngr is supposed to pull dependencies 'automatically'	16:51
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MSJ1983	oky i try again it wont let me install the pyqt4 begause it need the two other files before i can	16:51
MSJ1983	is my english so bad :-)	16:52
DocScrutinizer	if it complains about missing pkgs, I guess you miss a few repos/catalogs	16:52
DrWilken	Make sure You've got Extras, Extras Testing and Extras Devel enabled.	16:52
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DocScrutinizer	...in 'catalogs' in appmanager	16:52
MSJ1983	i have all off them maemo.org extras maemo extra delvel extras testing all of them	16:52
MSJ1983	tried in two days too make it work	16:53
DrWilken	You might have misconfigured one of them	16:54
DrWilken	Check the catalogs one by one	16:54
DrWilken	http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras (N900 for firmware PR 1.2)	16:54
DrWilken	http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing#How_to_activate_Extras-testing	16:55
DrWilken	http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel#How_to_activate_Extras-devel	16:55
DocScrutinizer	and it's fremantle, not freemantle ;-D	16:55
DocScrutinizer	(a common oopsie)	16:56
SpeedEvil	Stupid name.	16:56
SpeedEvil	That gets most people.	16:56
DrWilken	Jup :)	16:56
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MSJ1983	oky i will try it out will be bak soon with updates	16:57
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MSJ1983	oky tried it but no go... :-)	17:04
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alterego	Dum-de-dum-do-do	17:06
MSJ1983	is it somything about the new update for the nokia n900	17:06
DrWilken	?	17:06
MSJ1983	i have read a tons of stuff via google	17:07
MSJ1983	many have the problems	17:07
MSJ1983	for it	17:07
DrWilken	link?	17:07
MSJ1983	whait i have too find it again :-)	17:08
SwedeMike	what new update is that?	17:08
DrWilken	I'll just try to install psfreedom in the meanwhile	17:09
DrWilken	I didn't have any problems installing it.	17:10
MSJ1983	and you have a nokia n900??	17:10
MSJ1983	what the ....	17:10
MSJ1983	what wrong with me its new	17:10
DrWilken	no N9	17:10
DrWilken	Yes, I have a N900 :)	17:10
MSJ1983	:-)	17:10
MSJ1983	whats wrong with mne	17:11
MSJ1983	mine	17:11
MSJ1983	you have updatged it right	17:11
DrWilken	pulled 15 packages incl. psfreedom	17:11
DrWilken	Yes	17:11
MSJ1983	how did you do it did you write it on xterminakl	17:11
DrWilken	No	17:11
DrWilken	Using fapman but it should work using the standard app manager too	17:12
MSJ1983	oky i try download fapman and try whait a sec	17:12
DrWilken	I still think Your catalogs aren't set up correctly	17:12
DocScrutinizer51	MSJ1983: can you save appmanager log please, and pastebin it	17:12
MSJ1983	i have checked ever one of them mate	17:12
DrWilken	ok	17:13
MSJ1983	doc>>> how do i pastebin it :-)	17:13
DocScrutinizer51	of course after trying to install psfreedom	17:13
DocScrutinizer51	~pastebin	17:13
infobot	[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you should paste anything over 3 lines so you don't flood the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://bin.cakephp.org/ , http://asterisk.pastey.net/ , or install pastebinit with yum or aptitude.	17:13
MSJ1983	i have too install that can i imagine right	17:14
MSJ1983	??	17:14
DrWilken	doesn't matter. just paste the log to one of the sites mentioned and provide the link	17:15
DocScrutinizer51	http://pastebin.ca/upload.php	17:16
MSJ1983	i have done it on pastebin.com	17:17
MSJ1983	:-9	17:17
MSJ1983	sry didt see you link befor now	17:17
DrWilken	link? :)	17:17
MSJ1983	http://pastebin.com/JAMJwBkX	17:17
MSJ1983	sryi am new at this	17:17
MSJ1983	drwilken>>> cannot find the fapman program mate	17:18
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MSJ1983	is it right docs???	17:18
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DrWilken	one thing at a time... :)	17:18
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MSJ1983	oky... drwilken,... but isent it wired that you can do it with no problem... could it be begause i live in dk??	17:20
DrWilken	I live in DK to... :D	17:20
DrWilken	so no ;)	17:20
DrWilken	there isn't anything useful in your log. try installing psfreedom and paste the log after that.	17:21
MSJ1983	oky 3 sec	17:21
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MSJ1983	where do i find the log for it dr...	17:23
MSJ1983	??	17:23
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DrWilken	application manager -> log -> save as	17:23
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DrWilken	(You just did it 2 secs ago) :)	17:23
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MSJ1983	but its the same that it saying that why i asked	17:24
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DrWilken	weird. try pressing update and then check if there's anything useful in the log	17:25
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MSJ1983	oky	17:26
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MSJ1983	whait :-)	17:26
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DrWilken	a catalogue fails? :)	17:26
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MSJ1983	witch one	17:26
MSJ1983	???	17:26
DrWilken	it was a question :) hence the '?'	17:26
MSJ1983	no update... it just says	17:27
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MSJ1983	somthing els in the log	17:28
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MSJ1983	will copy it know	17:28
DrWilken	ok	17:28
DrWilken	i'm installing psfreedom using application manager now	17:28
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MSJ1983	now	17:29
MSJ1983	oky	17:29
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dolp	what do i need to add to my madde project so i can use qt mobility messaging abilities.. i cant seem to get it to work	17:31
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DrWilken	no problem - pastebin.ca/1958664	17:31
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MSJ1983	what does that mean drwilkien	17:31
DrWilken	that's just the log of the install. You should be getting something similar when trying to install.	17:32
MSJ1983	oky should i try again or??	17:32
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DrWilken	I'm almost certain that You're having problems with a catalogue.	17:33
MSJ1983	oky i will try the whole thin again	17:34
DrWilken	ok	17:34
MSJ1983	i have too add all the 3 links right	17:34
MSJ1983	do you have tdc internet also	17:35
MSJ1983	can i deactivtae the other catelagoes	17:35
MSJ1983	that comes with nokia	17:35
DrWilken	no	17:35
DrWilken	just check that they are correct	17:35
MSJ1983	also the qvi	17:35
DrWilken	just leave it	17:36
MSJ1983	pre-PR1.1 is ours not 1.2	17:36
MSJ1983	+??	17:36
DrWilken	yes	17:36
DrWilken	I posted that earlier too :)	17:36
MSJ1983	so what do to with http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras	17:36
DrWilken	there's instructions for 1.2. too...	17:36
DrWilken	"The configuration below is for N900 for firmware PR 1.2:"	17:37
MSJ1983	aha... is eee	17:37
MSJ1983	see--	17:37
DrWilken	when You have checked all 3 catalogues are correct let it update again and make sure that no catalogs failed	17:38
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MSJ1983	did you write commands like deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ diablo free non-free	17:39
DrWilken	No this is fremantle	17:39
DrWilken	I'll write a page with all the settings You need and give You a link	17:40
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MSJ1983	oky... many thx... mate...	17:41
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* DocScrutinizer51 starts to have daydream nightmares about fixing a borked maemo system after some really icky pkgs like powerkrnl were installed by someone that has no idea about the warnings that come with devel		17:42
MSJ1983	now it asked for libqt4-test	17:42
MSJ1983	and another file	17:42
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MSJ1983	isent that wired	17:42
MSJ1983	??	17:42
DrWilken	lol Doc :)	17:44
DrWilken	http://pastebin.com/muNV8PwM	17:44
DrWilken	BEWARE: Testing and Devel might break You device... Don't come cryin'... ;)	17:44
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MSJ1983	oky	17:46
MSJ1983	give me 5 min	17:47
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timeless_mbp	anyone here have a picture of the maemo crash reporter complaining about http response 100?	18:01
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ShadowJK	heh, google search is pretty broken on maemo4 diablo with microb now	18:13
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SpeedEvil	:(	18:16
alterego	Shame microb isn't OSS really ;)	18:16
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ShadowJK	That's weird. On N800 there are magnifying glass icons next to results, trying to click results blanks out most of the page and pops up a small preview elsewhere	18:16
ShadowJK	but on N810 google search works	18:17
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MohammadAG	alterego, indeed	18:17
MohammadAG	alterego, did I hear you say something about the PandaBoard the other day?	18:17
MohammadAG	was lagging too much	18:17
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alterego	MohammadAG: yeah, applied with a proposal, even if I don't get accepted I think I'll buy one, looks too good :)	18:18
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MohammadAG	alterego, I want one	18:19
MohammadAG	and flash 10.1 :P	18:19
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alterego	Heh, I don't care much for flash, as long as iplayer and youtube continue working.	18:20
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MSJ1983	mohammadAG i have problems with your psfredom plz help	18:26
MohammadAG	MSJ1983, enable devel, and install it from the repos	18:27
DocScrutinizer	MSJ1983: you got plenty of help already, why pester MohammadAG now?	18:27
alterego	Hah	18:27
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: see? exactly what half a dozen other users here told you before	18:28
MohammadAG	yeah, I'm singing on rb2 :P	18:28
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: sorry	18:28
DocScrutinizer	MSJ1983: ^^^	18:28
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, xP	18:28
nidO	sigh, lack of any decent tablet to buy is dull :(	18:28
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MohammadAG	sweet, gold stars	18:29
* MohammadAG thinks about porting libhildon and hildon-desktop to MeeGo		18:29
MohammadAG	the existing UI sucks	18:29
MohammadAG	Maemo 5's UI rocks	18:29
DocScrutinizer	what's the correct way to have a file of mime type application/x-install-instructions - on microB/maemo5 ?	18:29
MSJ1983	what does enable devel mean :-)	18:30
* MohammadAG facepalms		18:30
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, .htaccess	18:30
MohammadAG	[hostnamehidden]$ repo/.htaccess	18:31
MohammadAG	AddType application/x-install-instructions .install	18:31
DrWilken	MSJ -> I've tried helping You with it, but it seems that You're having problems with the Nokia repositories. Wait until they work again	18:31
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MSJ1983	yes you are right drwilken	18:32
MSJ1983	:-9	18:32
MSJ1983	:-)	18:32
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: thanks but MEH :-S	18:32
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MSJ1983	but nice app	18:34
MSJ1983	mohammed	18:34
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alterego	I really need to do some more coding, I've been hit with a load of webbsite contracts and short deadlines :/	18:37
alterego	Still, it's money :J	18:38
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* MohammadAG gives alterego his two cents		18:40
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alterego	:)	18:41
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alterego	Well, I've finoshed one now, gotta upload it and get paid tomorrow, then I should have a little extra time to finish my projects.	18:43
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: isn't there a predefined filename pattern for mime type appication/x-install-instructions on default maemo?	18:46
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: I mean, even clicking on a local install file doesn't open it with HAM	18:47
DocScrutinizer	I.E.: what filename extension does a install file need so HAM is invoked when clicking on the install file?	18:48
DocScrutinizer	err, nm	18:49
DocScrutinizer	filemanager is happy with my install file, only microb - when using 'file:///home/user/foobar.install' URL - just shows plain text	18:50
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alterego	DocScrutinizer: needs a content type when using uris, which isn't possible with file: schemes :)	19:00
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DocScrutinizer51	hmm. yes	19:01
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DocScrutinizer51	well, wait a day. I'll set up an URL to click - to install all those repos	19:02
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DocScrutinizer	for now you can download http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/repositories.install to some location in MyApps, then 'open' it with filemanager	19:06
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DocScrutinizer	I'm not absolutely sure it works without 'dist' though HAM is supposed to use current dist of OS (so fremantle for N900) if it's empty	19:07
DocScrutinizer	anyway HAM has included the catalogs, checked updates, and no errors popped up	19:08
DocScrutinizer	but for now those are duplicates on my N900	19:08
DocScrutinizer	need a few more tests	19:09
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I think it doesn't, but fremantle/tools is NOT optified	19:09
DocScrutinizer	lol, I know	19:09
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DocScrutinizer	y'know I'm temped to hard replace the config file, but then I thought doing it the 'right way' would be a nice exercise	19:12
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dRbiG	hmm, can i add my own led/vibrator patterns? i was thinking about a little script that will flash the led in some specific way every hour	19:12
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DocScrutinizer	rduse led pattern editor pkg for editing LED patterns, use alarmed + dbus-send to trigger the pattern	19:13
DocScrutinizer	dRbiG: ^^^	19:13
dRbiG	DocScrutinizer: exactly what i was thinking about	19:14
DocScrutinizer	dRbiG: for vibra you need to manually edit /etc/mce/mce.ini	19:14
nox-	moin	19:14
dRbiG	i just didn't see any way in led pattern editor to actually add new patterns	19:14
DocScrutinizer	there's nonne?	19:14
dRbiG	so i'm asking if adding one directly in mce.ini is supposed to work	19:15
DocScrutinizer	none*	19:15
DocScrutinizer	yes, it's supposed to work	19:15
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dRbiG	DocScrutinizer: you can edit the ones that are available, and there is some 'copy' button, but that is all	19:15
DocScrutinizer	you need to boot to make mce take notice of changed mce.ini iirc	19:15
dRbiG	cant i kill -HUP it?	19:16
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DocScrutinizer	maybe works too	19:16
MohammadAG	NO!	19:20
DocScrutinizer	yeah, even the copy button is flawed. And the timing also is off by factor 2. LED pattern editor needs some fixes	19:20
MohammadAG	stop mce or start mce	19:20
MohammadAG	don't use kill	19:20
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: calm down, look, think! :-D	19:20
dRbiG	okey, thx, no killing will be performed :)	19:21
DocScrutinizer	dRbiG: kill -HUP is ok iirc	19:21
DocScrutinizer	or maybe it was -USR1	19:21
DocScrutinizer	or whatever	19:21
* RST38h quacks, for achange		19:22
nox-	its kind of common for daemons to handle SIGHUP as `reload config'	19:22
DocScrutinizer	ack	19:22
DocScrutinizer	(except for mgetty :-P )	19:23
nox-	hah well thats not exacttly what youd usually call a daemon :)	19:24
nox-	exactly	19:24
DocScrutinizer	exacTTlY ;-D	19:25
nox-	exacttyly? :)	19:25
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dRbiG	anyone here uses queenbeecon widget (what a name btw.)?	19:37
lcuk	fapman is better	19:37
dRbiG	anyway there are about three features that desktop cmd exectuin widget lacks and i would find them quite useful	19:40
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alterego	Hrm, is it possible to change the colours the terminal uses me wonders	20:04
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MohammadAG	alterego, tap title bar, then select font	20:05
MohammadAG	I want gnome-terminal	20:06
alterego	No,I mean the ansii colours.	20:06
RST38h	I'm afraid not	20:07
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alterego	I'd quite like gnome-terminal too :)	20:09
alterego	I looked into porting it a while ago, then lost interest	20:10
RST38h	Anyone knows how I can get rid of all those mount points created by Python?	20:10
RST38h	I removed Python already	20:10
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RST38h	Anyone???	20:14
MohammadAG	python-optify?	20:14
MohammadAG	or whatever it's called	20:14
RST38h	it has been removed	20:15
RST38h	but the crap stayed	20:15
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MohammadAG	pymaemo-optify?	20:15
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RST38h	rc pymaemo-optify 0.5 PyMaemo optification package	20:15
RST38h	rc python2.5-minimal 2.5.4-1maemo6 A minimal subset of the Python language (version 2.5)	20:15
RST38h	Both marked rc	20:15
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RST38h	Purged them with dpkg -P. Crap is still n 'df'	20:19
nox-	just ignore it (and hope they're gone after next reboot :)	20:21
MohammadAG	rc?	20:22
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DocScrutinizer51	RST38h: uninstalling a package or even sysinit scripts will not umount	20:31
dolp	what do i have to do to be able to compile something with Qt Mobility (Messaging) things on MADDE (0.6.72)?	20:32
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dRbiG	hmm, pattern i added seems not to be working, and now the wondering starts	20:43
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RST38h	Doc,Mohammad: I cannot find this stuff in rc, and all py-related packages have been purged	20:43
RST38h	weird crap =(	20:44
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rapidsp	how to open archives in GUI?	20:46
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Myrtti	that almost made sense without context	20:47
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RST38h	Moo, Myrtti	20:47
Myrtti	baabaa	20:47
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johnsq	Hi	20:48
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RST38h	Ahhaha, I have found where this garbage resides	20:51
RST38h	Bindings are gone now, but still cannot deletedirectories	20:53
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dRbiG	does alarmed cron strings accept modern cron syntax? like: 0 8-20/2 * * 1,3,5	21:04
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dRbiG	nope, it doesn't :S	21:06
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: hmm, interesting	21:27
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: where?	21:28
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timeless_xchat	hello world. anyone here have an n900 and a few minutes?	21:31
Venemo_N900	timeless_xchat: I do	21:32
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RST38h	Doc: /etc/mtab	21:35
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DrWilken	RST - That's just a list of the currently mounted filesystems AFAIK	21:35
DrWilken	http://www.brunolinux.com/02-The_Terminal/Fstab_and_Mtab.html	21:36
DrWilken	"This file handles the mounted devices and is automatically updated by the mount command."	21:36
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RST38h	well it is the only place	21:36
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DrWilken	Try a grep -R <search-phrase> /	21:37
DrWilken	You need gnu-grep installed.	21:37
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DrWilken	You did reboot after uninstalling pymaemo-optify, right?	21:40
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RST38h	yeah, multiple times	21:40
DrWilken	ok	21:40
DrWilken	guess an uninstall doesn't clean up as it should... :/	21:41
* RST38h wonders who came up with this abomination at the first place		21:42
DrWilken	There was a need for it before PR1.2	21:42
RST38h	what changed with pr1.2?	21:42
DrWilken	Lot's of stuff was put in /opt/maemo	21:43
DrWilken	which previously was in rootfs	21:43
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DrWilken	I think I've found it	21:43
RST38h	?	21:43
DrWilken	/etc/default/pymaemo-optify	21:43
DrWilken	/etc/default/pymaemo-optify:BIND_MOUNTS="/usr/lib/python2.5 /usr/share/pyshared /usr/lib/pyshared /usr/share/python-support /usr/lib/python-support"	21:44
RST38h	I do not have it	21:44
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RST38h	in fact, pymaemo-optify cannot be found anywhere in /etc	21:44
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DrWilken	That's weird. I'll just try to move it out of /etc/default and reboot and see if it still does the bind mounts.	21:45
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RST38h	maybe dpkg -P killed it a while ago	21:46
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DrWilken	then it shouldn't do the bind mounts, should it? :)	21:46
DrWilken	their gone after putting a # in front of the BIND_MOUNTS line	21:47
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crashanddie	they're	21:47
DrWilken	thanks :)	21:47
crashanddie	yw	21:48
* DrWilken feels educated :)		21:48
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DrWilken	Just did a dpkg -L pymaemo-optify and these are the (important) files it brings: /etc/default/pymaemo-optify, /etc/event.d/pymaemo-optify and /etc/init.d/pymaemo-optify	21:50
RST38h	aha	21:50
RST38h	none are present	21:50
DrWilken	/etc/event.d/pymaemo-optify executes /etc/init.d/pymaemo-optify start	21:50
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DrWilken	/etc/init.d/pymaemo-optify checks if /etc/default/pymaemo-optify exists and creates bind mounts for each of the entries in it.	21:52
DrWilken	I have no idea why Yours are still present... :/	21:52
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RST38h	maybe it needs yet another reboot...will see	21:53
DrWilken	might be a good idea after editing /etc/mtab :D	21:53
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nox-	edit /etc/mtab ? i thought that one's generated?	21:54
RST38h	apparently it is	21:54
DrWilken	:)	21:55
RST38h	but that was the only place where python was even mentioned	21:55
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DocScrutinizer	by reboot we meant your maemo, not your memory	21:58
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DrWilken	RST -> I don't know what mounts them if it's not pymaemo-optify. no idea...	22:05
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DrWilken	If You just want to get rid of the bind mounts You could always reinstall pymaemo-optify and just comment out the BIND_MOUNTS line in /etc/default/pymaemo-optify... :D	22:12
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DrWilken	Ugly fix for an ugly hack... or was it the other way round? :)	22:14
RST38h	python probably won't work then =)	22:15
Jaffa	DrWilken: pymaemo-optify just adds the lines to /etc/fstab IIRC	22:15
DrWilken	I think it will ;)	22:16
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Jaffa	RST38h: Indeed, unless you have oodles of rootfs space to put the libraries back in their original locations.	22:16
DrWilken	it's just bind mounts to links ;)	22:16
RST38h	Jaffa: Remind me, why didn't symlinks work?	22:16
DrWilken	I forgot about that. whoops :)	22:17
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arvut	Hi..	22:21
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arvut	wow this seems abit dead, is this a chitchat or support channel?	22:25
lcuk	arvut, if we said hi to everyone who entered my keys would be worn out :P	22:25
lcuk	and you caught it at a quiet time	22:26
arvut	heh true	22:26
arvut	so, what kind of channel is it?	22:27
DrWilken	RST - http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=427441&postcount=29	22:28
nox-	anyone here like jarre? http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ten10ten	22:29
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DrWilken	RST: Actually this one explains why symlinks don't work	22:32
DrWilken	http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-October/021348.html	22:32
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dolp	what needs to be done to be able to use QMessageManager in my widget app? compiled using MADDE (0.6.72)	22:47
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DocScrutinizer	apache anybody?	23:18
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DocScrutinizer	what config option is stopping apache from listing directory content?	23:19
Stskeeps	lack of +Indexes ?	23:19
DocScrutinizer	never seen this	23:19
DocScrutinizer	is this a file name, or a config option in .htconfig?	23:20
DrWilken	config option. it's under a directory statement	23:20
DrWilken	<Directory /blah/blah>	23:21
DrWilken	Options +Indexes	23:21
DocScrutinizer	thanks	23:21
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DocScrutinizer	meh, still the friggin Apache 2 Test Page	23:27
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DrWilken	vhost?	23:28
DocScrutinizer	yep	23:28
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DrWilken	Name based?	23:28
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DocScrutinizer	err yep	23:29
DocScrutinizer	think so	23:29
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DocScrutinizer	index.html is working fine	23:29
DrWilken	ok	23:29
DrWilken	that was my next question :)	23:29
DrWilken	http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/vhosts/examples.html	23:30
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: i have apache2	23:30
DocScrutinizer	just w/o index.html it doesn't list files but instead shows that test page	23:30
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jacekowski	that's strange	23:30
jacekowski	what are you trying to achieve?	23:31
jacekowski	ehh	23:31
jacekowski	http://jacekowski.org/Maemo/Chromium#comment-96	23:31
DocScrutinizer	very simple, something similar to http:/people.openmoko.org	23:31
jacekowski	mod_autoindex	23:32
DocScrutinizer	errm, lemme grep this	23:33
jacekowski	basicaly what you have to do is create a folder that apache can access	23:33
jacekowski	have your folder there	23:33
DocScrutinizer	there is	23:33
jacekowski	folders*	23:33
jacekowski	then	23:33
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DocScrutinizer	there is a folder with a file, I can access the folder/file and I can access folder/index.html	23:34
DrWilken	If You don't have mod_autoindex it should complain about Options +Indexes	23:34
DocScrutinizer	when I enter URL >folder>	23:34
jacekowski	take a look at	23:34
jacekowski	http://blah.jacekowski.org/server-info	23:34
jacekowski	that's full config of my apache	23:35
DrWilken	jacekowski - that's not a permanent page is it?	23:35
DrWilken	:)	23:35
jacekowski	it is	23:35
jacekowski	i don't have any passwords there	23:35
jacekowski	there is nothing that would be any threat there	23:36
DocScrutinizer	[Sun Oct 10 22:26:14 2010] [error] [client 85.116.194.200] Directory index forbidden by Options directive: /www/vhosts/jr/mae	23:36
DocScrutinizer	mo/	23:36
DrWilken	Just found this: http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/CommonMisconfigurations	23:36
DrWilken	jace - Just a lot of useful info for a hacker - version etc. Your choice ;)	23:37
jacekowski	blah	23:37
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jacekowski	like version gives anything to anybody	23:37
DrWilken	like security issues?	23:37
jacekowski	why	23:37
jacekowski	that only means that attacker has to try couple more exploits	23:38
DrWilken	if they know your using a vulnerable version of let's say php they'll try to exploit it	23:38
DrWilken	true	23:38
DrWilken	maybe i'm just paranoid :)	23:38
jacekowski	they can exploit it without knowing version	23:38
jacekowski	that's security by obscurity	23:38
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luke-jr_	when does anyone verify version before attempting an exploit?	23:38
DrWilken	script kiddies do	23:39
SpeedEvil	Security by obscurity is security too.	23:39
luke-jr_	doubt it	23:39
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DrWilken	yes :)	23:39
DrWilken	that's my motto :)	23:39
DocScrutinizer	could anybody comment on >>Directory index forbidden by Options directive: /www/vhosts/jr/maemo<<	23:39
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: i can	23:39
luke-jr_	also, if you're running a vulnerable version… UPDATE IT	23:39
SpeedEvil	It is poor security, but it adds.	23:39
luke-jr_	duh	23:39
SpeedEvil	First rule of security.	23:39
SpeedEvil	You do not have to run faster than the bear.	23:39
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: <Directory "/www/vhosts....">	23:39
jacekowski	Options Indexes	23:39
jacekowski	</Directory>	23:40
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DrWilken	no trailing slash on the directory statement afair. that's pretty important	23:40
DocScrutinizer	meh, I have Options +Indexes	23:40
luke-jr_	SpeedEvil: heh, that assumes the bear is indiscriminate	23:40
jacekowski	well, i prefer to have version that has no known vulnerabilities	23:40
DrWilken	me 2. but i _also_ hide version(s)	23:40
jacekowski	rather than have vulnerable version and hide it	23:40
jacekowski	well, that only adds maybe 3-4 versions	23:41
SpeedEvil	I'm not saying that's not a good thing.	23:41
DrWilken	lots of exploits are out before there are fixes	23:41
luke-jr_	I prefer to have a version with no known vulns, that claims to be an especially vuln version, and counter-attacks when someone attempts to exploit it	23:41
luke-jr_	<><	23:41
DrWilken	:)	23:42
luke-jr_	or at least null-routes the attacking IP	23:42
DrWilken	i don't counterattack, just drop	23:42
DrWilken	or redirect to 127.0.0.1	23:42
DocScrutinizer	no luck :-S	23:42
jacekowski	well, PaX and grsec will kill apache if shit happens	23:42
lcuk	people who do not want their devices to get infections should use a condom as a pouch	23:42
luke-jr_	…	23:43
jacekowski	so even if it's vulnerable there is no way to inject shellcode	23:43
DocScrutinizer	I.E. Options Indexes still gives me Apache 2 Test Page	23:43
luke-jr_	DocScrutinizer: remove index	23:43
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: your vhost config is messed up	23:43
DocScrutinizer	uhu	23:43
DrWilken	does it resolve?	23:44
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: take a look at my config	23:44
DocScrutinizer	remove what index??	23:44
jacekowski	<VirtualHost *:80>	23:44
luke-jr_	index*	23:44
jacekowski	ServerName shell.jacekowski.org	23:44
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr_: jr$ remove index --> bash: unknown command: remove	23:44
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jacekowski	<------><Directory /var/www/>	23:45
jacekowski	<------><------>Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews ExecCgi	23:45
luke-jr_	DocScrutinizer: find / -name index.* \| xargs rm -v	23:45
jacekowski	and that sort of stuff	23:45
DocScrutinizer	yayayaya	23:45
DrWilken	http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/vhosts/	23:45
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr_: sure	23:45
luke-jr_	(you might not want to actually do that)	23:45
DocScrutinizer	pfff	23:45
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DrWilken	http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#virtualhost	23:47
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DrWilken	but as jace said use *:80	23:47
DocScrutinizer	<Directory "/www/vhosts/jr/maemo">	23:47
DocScrutinizer	Options Indexes	23:47
DocScrutinizer	</Directory>	23:47
DocScrutinizer	</VirtualHost>	23:47
DrWilken	Right before Options put this	23:49
DrWilken	Order Allow,Deny	23:49
DocScrutinizer	'elo? everything working like a charm, just it shows that fsckng Apache2 Test Page instead of a ls -l, when there's no index.html file in the dir	23:49
DrWilken	Allow from All	23:49
DrWilken	And the Directory statement doesn't _need_ to be _inside_ the VirtualHost	23:50
DrWilken	not sure if it makes any difference	23:50
DrWilken	I always put them by themselves - after </VirtualHost>	23:51
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DrWilken	Do You have AllowOverride Indexes in your httpd.conf ?	23:52
DocScrutinizer	there has to be a BS Option or LoadModule somewhere that overrides fileindex with that apache2testpage, no?	23:53
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DocScrutinizer	lemme check	23:53
DocScrutinizer	three times "AllowOverride None"	23:54
DrWilken	just a sec. not sure if AllowOverride only has to do with .htaccess files.	23:55
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DrWilken	it's only for allowing options in .htaccess files	23:56
DocScrutinizer	is this goddamn testpage hardcoded into apache?	23:56
DrWilken	It's in httpd.conf	23:57
DocScrutinizer	otherwise you'd think it should be pointed to somewhere in httpd.conf	23:57
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luke-jr_	the test page is an index.* file	23:57
DrWilken	Which distro are You using?	23:57
DocScrutinizer	centos	23:57
DrWilken	ok	23:57
DrWilken	SELinux? :)	23:58
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DocScrutinizer	errrrr nope?	23:58
DrWilken	sure?	23:58
DocScrutinizer	noo	23:58
DrWilken	check /etc/sysconfig/selinux	23:58
DrWilken	If it's enforcing it's blocking disk access to the apache process	23:59
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DocScrutinizer	# disabled - SELinux is fully disabled.	23:59
DocScrutinizer	SELINUX=disabled	23:59
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DrWilken	OK, that's not it then ;)	23:59

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