IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-10-02

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dRbiGhmm, how are the efforts to enable n900 to be a usb host?00:01
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sivangis the maemo Fiasco image called like this due to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiasco_(L4_clone)#Fiasco ?00:04
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wmaronedoubtful00:06
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DocScrutinizerdRbiG: they are like http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6278700:09
sivangwmarone: it is acually mentioned with relationg to Symbian and in some way Maemo00:09
ArGGu^^sivang you can check your firmware version from settings->about product00:11
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pupnikspend some time educating folks, if you know something00:12
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juki don't know, i think i'm cursed, emulation wont start!00:13
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sivangArGGu^^: 3.2010.02-800:13
ArGGu^^sivang I bought my n900 from  Finland and it has global firmware00:13
sivangArGGu^^: great, then that's probably what I have00:13
ArGGu^^sivang that should be global00:13
sivangArGGu^^: thanks :)00:13
sivangArGGu^^: how do you gather that?00:13
sivangArGGu^^:  I mean, that the version is global firmware?00:14
ArGGu^^usa firmware version should in .002, middle east and north america .003, india .004 and uk .203.x00:15
ArGGu^^*should end00:15
sivangArGGu^^: nice, is this on the wiki somewhere?00:16
sivangArGGu^^: how do you know that? :)00:16
ArGGu^^global firmware just have the normal version number It does not have it own suffix00:16
ArGGu^^sivang http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php00:17
ArGGu^^firmwares that you can download from there has those suffix00:17
ArGGu^^and global has none suffix00:17
jukI'm cursed, emulation wont start! http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/504157/ help me!!!00:17
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E0xjuk: start dbus00:18
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sivangArGGu^^: but that appears to be only in the file name no00:18
sivangArGGu^^: so the "Brief Description" column has the same version number for any make00:19
ArGGu^^sivang http://regmedia.co.uk/2010/02/16/n900_1.jpg00:19
sivangArGGu^^: but if your's global, and was bought in finland then that's okay00:19
ArGGu^^there is screenshot of about product00:19
sivanguh-ha!00:19
sivangArGGu^^: thank you SO MUCH00:19
ArGGu^^and it has the .002 suffix00:20
sivangArGGu^^: yes, I see that now, I never saw a different device so that helps00:20
sivangIt is very rare hre00:21
sivanghere00:21
sivang;)00:21
jukE0x: after dbus manually started: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/504158/00:21
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sivangArGGu^^: now the _COMBINED image means it has the eMMC vanilla as well?00:22
sivangArGGu^^: or do I still need to fetch the older in version time stamp image of the eMMC here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin00:24
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jukE0x: again http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/504161/00:25
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jukE0x: screw it, i gonna do all over again00:26
ArGGu^^sivang I'm not sure of that. I have just updated my n900 using ssu00:27
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sivangArGGu^^: ah okay.00:27
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jukyeah00:29
jukwhere's home directory actually in scratchbox?00:30
sivangjuk: it is bind mounted to your regular home, IIRC00:31
juksivang: i want take rootstarps out of there and blow off /scratchbox00:32
juksivang: btw, it's not my actual home dir00:32
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ArGGu^^sivang I think that depends where you have bind it. I got in /scratchbox/users/<username>/home/user00:33
ArGGu^^juk check /scratchbox/users/<username>/home/user00:33
jukArGGu^^: yeah, thats deal00:34
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sivangArGGu^^: ah, right00:36
ArGGu^^btw has anyone tested meego on n900?00:39
DocScrutinizersivang: it's quite varbatim in ~flashing - anyway COMBINED is rootfs + possibly bootloader + possibly cellmo FW, and VANILLA is partitioning of eMMC and content of MyDocs which happens to be a eMMC partition00:39
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sivangDocScrutinizer: yes, I just now deduced it since there was no other things for it to be combined with, as if ti was combined with the eMMC somehow, they would not provide the eMMC as well:)00:40
DocScrutinizerso if you want to keep $HOME and MyDocs, you do not want to flash VANILLA00:40
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sivangDocScrutinizer: yep, noted thanks.00:41
juksudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl stop00:42
jukWARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING00:42
jukTrouble umounting!  Some mounts could still be active!00:42
jukam I clear to rm -rf /scratchbox ?00:42
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sivangDocScrutinizer: that's quite hilarious :) - NEW-HOME-SIZE=409600:42
sivangsed -e "s/2048/$NEW-HOME-SIZE/" path/to/*VANILLA*.bin >patched-VANILLA.bin00:43
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DocScrutinizer51eh?00:43
sivangDocScrutinizer: I mean, one would think it'd require more than that.00:43
nox-moin00:43
sivangDocScrutinizer: so I was quite surprised to see that00:43
sivangmoins nox-00:43
DocScrutinizer51no, that's just enough00:43
nox-moin sivang00:44
jukwhy it happens to me?!00:44
ArGGu^^juk You want to remove scratchbox?00:44
sivangDocScrutinizer: how much can you enlarge it than its original size? I mean, the size of the eMMC is 32G tops right?00:45
jukArGGu^^: yes, very much00:45
ArGGu^^juk How did you install it?00:45
DocScrutinizer51sivang: yes, and you'll need 768M for swap, and should keep at least 1G for MyDocs00:46
jukArGGu^^: sudo aptitude install scratchbox-core scratchbox-libs scratchbox-devkit-qemu scratchbox-devkit-debian scratchbox-devkit-doctools scratchbox-devkit-perl scratchbox-toolchain-host-gcc scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486 scratchbox-devkit-svn scratchbox-devkit-git scratchbox-devkit-apt-https00:46
DocScrutinizer51sivang: so up to 30G for home should work00:46
jukand lots of lots stuff waisting my connection00:47
ArGGu^^juk http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Un-installation00:47
jukI knew it gonna be messy, why did I00:47
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DocScrutinizerjuk: BEWARE! BEWARE! rm -rf /scratchbox has nukes quite some systems, because of the bindmounts back to "host"-system00:48
jukDocScrutinizer: I dont care now00:49
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* DocScrutinizer neither. Is fetching popcorn and watching the horrormovie to come in this channel :-P00:50
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sivangDocScrutinizer: HAHAHA00:51
DocScrutinizerjuk: probably if you'd go for a clean new install of your PC's linux OS right away, that'd be much easier than first nuking it by rm -rf /scratchbox00:51
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sivangDocScrutinizer: this happened to me once, so I learned on the flesh. Never happend since. (Not with Maemo, but with various ubuntu chroots bindmounted for network and other stuff)00:52
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sivangI reacalled scratchbox has an uninstall "feature" no?00:52
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jukDocScrutinizer: really that bad, apparently I can't remove it00:53
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DocScrutinizerjuk: check mount00:54
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jukecho /scratchbox on /scratchbox/users/juk/scratchbox type none (rw,bind)00:55
juk/tmp on /scratchbox/users/juk/tmp type none (rw,bind)00:55
jukecho /dev on /scratchbox/users/juk/dev type none (rw,bind)00:55
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DocScrutinizerhehe, so if you don't need your /tmp anymore...00:55
DocScrutinizernor your /dev00:55
nox-just umount those first?00:55
DocScrutinizeryes!00:55
MohammadAGno00:56
sivangjuk: try to umount first, if yo get 'fs busy' make sure no apps or shell session are in those dirs00:56
sivangMohammadAG: ?00:56
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juksivang: no way00:56
juksivang: busy00:56
MohammadAGthere's a way to stop the mounts00:56
MohammadAGsec00:56
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sivangMohammadAG to the rescue!00:57
MohammadAGmohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/scratchbox-core stop00:57
MohammadAGStopping Scratchbox: umount, binfmt_misc.00:57
sivangoh right00:57
sivangsilly me00:57
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jukMohammadAG: Im done00:57
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sivangMohammadAG: thanks for keeping us humane and not vilde hayes :)00:58
MohammadAGlol00:59
MohammadAGI rm -rf'd /scratchbox on my server once00:59
sivangheh00:59
sivangI see00:59
MohammadAGwas about 100km away from it for 2 months or so00:59
sivangoh dear00:59
MohammadAGssh failed00:59
sivangI have a VDS00:59
MohammadAGi couldn't reboot00:59
sivangmakes it much easier if I screw things up, so you also learned the hard way. So did I with 2 weeks worth packaging work that went downt the drain when rm -rf bindmounted dirs.01:00
sivangMohammadAG: in a VDS you can reboot and do whatever you want through a web vmware console01:00
sivangMohammadAG: it is quite nice01:00
sivangthere where omniqueue.com is hosted01:00
sivang*that's01:01
MohammadAGwell01:01
MohammadAGyou can't reboot it in any way01:01
MohammadAGcause the linux kernel is fooked01:01
MohammadAGtry it01:01
ArGGu^^btw As here is lot of n900 users I think this good place to ask one question01:01
MohammadAGrm -rf /dev/* /proc/* /sys/*01:02
sivangyes, so I can just reinstall an image01:02
MohammadAGyou won't recover from that easily without a cold reboot01:02
sivangif I want to, through a web ui01:02
ArGGu^^http://arggu.ath.cx/IrGGu.png here is screenshot of irc client that I'm making for n90001:02
sivangMohammadAG: true, that's is why having a VDS is nice (Virtual Dedicated Server)01:02
MohammadAGit probably doesn't have a core i5 :P01:02
sivangMohammadAG: no, but is very very strong01:02
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MohammadAGI wanted an i5 back then01:03
SpeedEvilhttp://qkwv.com/xchat.png ArGGu^^01:03
SpeedEvilI find useful01:03
ArGGu^^I put a tab button next text input for nick completion, but I just would want to that if someone has better idea.01:03
ArGGu^^SpeedEvil I don't like xchat on n90001:03
SpeedEvilIt would be ideal if it was possible to be able to easily rename the tabe.01:03
sivangMohammadAG: builds packages in a blink of an eye, I should try qt on it sometime soon, maybe tomorrow01:03
SpeedEvilFair enough01:03
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* sivang logs in to his irssi from the N90001:03
MohammadAGsivang, try the linux kernel01:03
ArGGu^^*want to know01:04
SpeedEvilArGGu^^: it's some ideas - I like tabs on the left - or right - as usually the chat lines are not long enough to take up a whole line.01:04
sivangMohammadAG: will do, should be a nice experiment01:04
MohammadAGanyways, I have a laptop now01:04
SpeedEvilArGGu^^: And configurable short aliases for those names would be good.01:04
MohammadAGcompiling the zImage takes about 3-5 mins01:04
ArGGu^^SpeedEvil n900 has some screen so I'm not going use any names list or channel list01:04
MohammadAGschool day tomorrow, night o/01:05
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SpeedEvilArGGu^^: some screen?01:05
MohammadAGideally01:05
ArGGu^^network and channels are switched with hot keys01:05
MohammadAGthe IRC client would have both01:05
ArGGu^^SpeedEvil sry type I mean small01:05
MohammadAGuserlists and networks01:05
ArGGu^^*typo :D01:05
sivangMohammadAG: night!01:05
MohammadAGyou would have to swipe left/right to show them01:05
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MohammadAGup/down to scroll01:06
SpeedEvilArGGu^^: OK. I typically have several channels open - so that wouldn't work well for me01:06
MohammadAGhold on screen to activate copy mode01:06
SpeedEvilArGGu^^: Also consider that your massive date/timestamp takes up as much room as a chanlist01:07
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ArGGu^^SpeedEvil that timestamp is only in playback from bouncer01:07
SpeedEvilah01:07
MohammadAGArGGu^^, do consider my points :)01:08
MohammadAGo/01:08
ArGGu^^I would like to have nick completion used from keyboard but I can't think any good key for it :S01:08
sivangArGGu^^: maybe a quick double press?01:09
SpeedEvilI use shift-rightarrow01:09
sivangArGGu^^: on the speace01:09
SpeedEvilIt works well for me01:09
sivangArGGu^^: have youipasted mock ups of the ui somewhere?01:09
ArGGu^^MohammadAG yes I will consider.01:10
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ArGGu^^sivang http://arggu.ath.cx/IrGGu.png here is the ui of client01:11
ArGGu^^I like n900 keyboard so using mostly keyboard shortcuts works for me01:12
ArGGu^^but maybe I could take more use of the touch screen01:12
SpeedEvilI find it vital01:12
SpeedEvilOpening and closing the screen to switch channels would be _annoying_01:12
ArGGu^^Opening and closing screen?01:13
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ArGGu^^why need to open and close the screen01:13
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ArGGu^^my default shortcuts are ctrl+up previous network, ctrl+down next network and channels prev ctrl+left, next ctrl+right01:14
ArGGu^^but shortcuts can be changed from options dialog01:14
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sivangis there a way to force time udpate ?01:25
* sivang boogles at why it does not happen automatically as it used to01:26
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* sivang googles through the wiki01:30
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SpeedEvilsivang: apt-get instal openntpd01:31
SpeedEvilopening and closing keyb01:32
sivangSpeedEvil: why do I have to install something new if it worked before? have I changed anything unintentionally?01:33
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SpeedEvildunno01:40
SpeedEvilI'm suggesting a workaround01:40
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sivangSpeedEvil: sure, thanks, I just like to understands what happens behind the scenes :)01:40
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SpeedEvilDo not look at the man behind the curtain.01:42
sivanghehe01:42
DrGrovGood evening01:42
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Goliath23hi01:45
crashanddie"The telephone number pasted on boxes of cereal named for Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Chad Ochocinco was supposed to be for a charity -- but mistakenly directed callers to a sex line"01:45
crashanddieHow the hell do you recover from such a mistake and keep your job?01:46
crashanddie"err, woops"?01:46
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: By having a lucrative job lined up at an adult buisness PR department.01:46
sivangheh01:47
Goliath23i'm writing an homescreen widget that displays bundesliga (expandable to other leagues as well) live scores. now i'm thinking of creating a public repo on the web. maybe someone can help my lousy programming skills. what would be the best place? garage.maemo.org?01:47
nox-or maybe they just stopped paying for the line and the phone equivalent of a domain squatter grabbed it...01:47
crashanddienox-: no, they typo'd 888 instead of 80001:47
nox-haha ok01:47
sivanghehe01:48
Goliath23its written in qt and currently it just displays a table with the curremt scores with no automatic update yet (it updates at start)01:48
crashanddieGoliath23: gitorious.org is pretty popular, garage.m.o might do, it contains features such as bugtracker, source control management and mailing lists01:48
SpeedEvilHas anyone used witter recently?01:48
crashanddieGoliath23: also, what the hell is bundesliga?01:48
SpeedEvilFootball.01:48
crashanddieSpeedEvil: no, USE KHWEETEUR01:49
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Goliath23crashanddie: what vcs does garage use?01:49
crashanddieoh, german word for first league?01:49
crashanddieGoliath23: svn, IIRC01:49
Goliath23crashanddie: yes01:49
Goliath23crashanddie: ok01:49
Goliath23I think i go with garage for now01:49
crashanddieand git, as well01:50
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Goliath23btw. does anyone know when full compisite will come to qt on hildon?01:50
crashanddieI'm guessing about two months after second coming01:50
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crashanddiewell, 6 weeks after second coming, most probably.01:51
Goliath23seems that only the top level widget can be made translucent. i have a tableview and I can't get rid of the black background..01:51
GAN900crashanddie, Ochocinco is an ass. It's OK.01:52
sivangcrashanddie: second coming?01:52
crashanddieGAN900: fairy nuff01:52
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crashanddiesivang: never heard of second coming?01:53
sivangcrashanddie: it is related to religion right?01:53
crashanddieyeah01:53
sivangcrashanddie: like, a revalation01:53
Goliath23something like duke nukem forever?01:53
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crashanddiesivang: no, it's supposed to be the second time that christ will walk the earths01:53
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sivangcrashanddie: yes, so a revalation to his believers01:53
GAN900sivang, yes, Revelation.01:54
GAN900crashanddie, book of the bible.01:54
sivangerr, excuse my terrible after midnight spelling01:55
sivangI was bound to go to sleep already but am drawned by the magic spells this channel puts on me.01:55
crashanddieactually, second coming isn't described in the book of revelations (which is written by John, and discusses the end of the world, apocalypse, four horsemen, etc) -- second coming is far from that.01:58
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sivangcrashanddie: so it si rather a good thing than an apocalypse?02:00
crashanddiewell, ironically, the second coming will predict the end of the world, so...02:00
crashanddietake your pick :D02:00
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crashanddiesivang: i'm not a religious guy at all, I hate religion with a passion.02:00
crashanddieI just thoroughly enjoy the books as fiction.02:01
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crashanddieGAN900: I met the tech lead of my new job02:01
crashanddiethe guy's a frigging genius/maniac/awesomeness in a box.02:01
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crashanddieAt some point, he started a sentence with "In most of the (programming) languages I designed, I've always tried to include..."02:02
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* sivang flashes rootfs02:05
sivanghow long should it show the progress bar once it rebooted?02:06
* sivang phews02:07
sivangthe logo and setup appears02:07
sivangjesus02:07
sivangoops02:07
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sivangwawo02:08
sivangthe new first time setup screen is amazing02:08
* sivang likes02:08
sivangespecially the card02:09
sivangerr, the clock02:09
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: we have 2 or 3 votes for shorter /topic, none for keeping as is02:10
sivangodd how some of the desktop icons remained and some vainshed02:11
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: sure02:11
prontois there a way to have the camera have a timer before it takes a photo?02:11
DocScrutinizergo?02:11
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crashanddieyeah, no problem02:11
*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog"02:11
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crashanddieI thought that skype and nitdroid thing would stay for a day or two, not more02:12
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sivanghmm, so most of the packages vanished so I have to resync them from the backup02:14
sivangoh well02:14
* sivang notes browser is much faster.02:15
sivangkinetic scroll is much better02:16
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sivangodd I forgot the dimmer applet was stock /me reinstalls02:18
* sivang just fell inlove deeper with the device.02:19
DocScrutinizerstill kinetic scroll is way from perfect. It's painfully missing a dynamic damping factor, like throwing 3 times in a sequence gives higher scrolling speed AND much less damping, so scroll persists longer02:19
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dRbiGDocScrutinizer: so true02:20
dRbiGand there should be an option to reverse it02:20
sivangdRbiG: yes, but such a difference for the previous version!02:21
DocScrutinizerbasically you'd want to have it at a final mode where scrolling never stops until end of window reached.02:21
sivangdRbiG: I got terribly annoyed at it already02:21
sivangDocScrutinizer: is this the case for iPhone?02:21
DocScrutinizerNFC, I never touched an iPhone02:21
sivangokay. how do I make the protrain mode take affect btw?02:22
* sivang thanks people here for pointing him at right wiki resources for making this a smooth process and non destructable02:22
DocScrutinizera first simple approach would be: the faster the scrolling the smaller the damping02:22
DocScrutinizeraka 'friction'02:22
DocScrutinizera second stage of sophistication could take into account the number of throws user applied to the current scroll02:23
DocScrutinizerone fast fierce throw would give fast scroll that slows down quickly, while 3 or 4 gentle throws give a slow scroll that never slows down02:25
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sivangright, so backup app asks me if I want to overwrite the osso-addressbook file since the device has a newer version02:26
sivangI accidently cliked outside the question, and it just stoped the back up and rebooted02:26
DocScrutinizernice, no?02:26
sivangbahg!02:26
DocScrutinizerlol02:26
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sivangDocScrutinizer: what bugs me here, how will a simple, former iphoner toleratethe fact the backup program asks him about a a file he will never rememebr backing up?02:27
DocScrutinizersivang: you can restore from arbitrary backups as often as you want02:27
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sivangDocScrutinizer: "An more up to date version of your conacts exists on the device"02:27
dRbiGimo n900 is not for iphone users02:28
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sivangDocScrutinizer: at least that:)02:28
DocScrutinizersivang: thank god not all on maemo is tailored to please ex iPhone users02:28
sivangDocScrutinizer: hehe, yes, well, I am mor ethinking of someone even coming from Symbian02:28
DocScrutinizerhmm02:28
sivangDocScrutinizer: it never asks you about "thie file that has an odd osso- prefix"02:28
sivang"Restoring contacts" instead02:29
psycho_oreossivang, my previous phone was symbian :p02:29
DocScrutinizerI'm thinking of "checkmark your last phone you used!" err, [x]winmoob -.-.->BOOOOOM02:29
sivangHAHA02:30
sivangDocScrutinizer: it is not healthy for me to laugh so louly at this hour of night :)02:30
sivangpsycho_oreos: Yes, did S60 ever asked you to replace a file ? :)02:30
psycho_oreossivang, I don't recall that in particular but symbian was just a piece of shite :) utterly and completely02:31
psycho_oreosalmost always everything is either `certificate not valid'; `cannot write to device'02:32
DocScrutinizersivang: had sybian ever any notion about what's a file? :-P02:32
psycho_oreosits like a hardened windows02:32
sivangguys comm'on, given symbian's heritage and early design decision it has gone pretty far with S3 in my view02:33
sivang;)02:33
DocScrutinizergranted02:33
sivangI have a book FN sent me,02:33
DocScrutinizerstill don't want to swap linux for it02:33
sivangand it explains some of the design decision that were never suited for the advanced SoC S60's carry now, and still they make faiely good usage of the hardware02:34
sivangDocScrutinizer: sure- me neither, Maemo/N900 is like a true dream come true02:34
psycho_oreosI personally don't care about the heritage of an OS, if I bought a device with whatever software its included I expect it to do whatever I please not to give me stupid excuses of needing this or that02:34
sivangDocScrutinizer: But I have special affection to my N97mini02:34
sivangit has blazing fast photo taking02:34
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sivangresponsiveness to the shot button02:34
sivangand the email client is superb for fetching stff out of gmail imap02:35
sivangwithout draining the batteyr at all02:35
* sivang is not sure how ti does that02:35
DocScrutinizeryeah, I considered to get N95-8G a few years ago. But when I had to learn it doesn't have any more external storage slot, I though "meh, screwit"02:35
* sivang fights the replace dialog02:35
sivangI wish we could port the mail client to Maemo/MeeGo :-)02:36
psycho_oreosI got N95-1 (the non-NAM version) it was loaded with dreaded puny RAM which hardly allows one to do multitasking let alone the ability to be able to make any use out of symbian02:36
sivangDocScrutinizer: yeah., the storage in this device si something else. I use it as a mobile SSHD02:36
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sivangpsycho_oreos: what other alternatives were at that time? consider what other companies were offering :)02:37
DocScrutinizersivang: wtf? aren't there ANY good mail clients out there, that only need a Qt GUI to work on maemo/meego like a charm?02:37
sivangDocScrutinizer: yes,my plan as well :)02:37
sivangDocScrutinizer: true. There are some quite nice protocol middlwares that ould just use a Qt GUI thrown at them.02:37
* sivang thinks this could be a nice practice02:37
psycho_oreossivang, I would have personally gone for my very own first linux phone.. maybe an old HTC.. but instead N900 became my first linux phone02:37
sivangDocScrutinizer: I actually started exploring some of those after going over the changelog of MohammadAG51 's modest package02:38
psycho_oreosN95-1 shits me to tears in most cases02:38
sivangpsycho_oreos: consider the alternative at that time, when my friend bought his N95 and played albeit transcoded movies to a tv, or used N-Gage to play games, people astonished02:39
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51 is a constant pain in that he refuses to set up some central wiki location summarizing all his great work, and one decent git repo to pull sources from, and easy-to-install packages for everything, even a repo for HAM02:40
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DocScrutinizerand he's using tmo way too much to announce his things :-P02:41
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sivangtmo?02:42
luke-jr_DocScrutinizer: I know someone who refuses to use git or Bazaar because they require* SSH keys…02:42
luke-jr_sivang: talk.maemo.org duh02:42
DocScrutinizerwhile no sane human can look at tmo more frequently than once a month02:42
sivangah02:42
sivangDocScrutinizer: I agree.02:42
luke-jr_DocScrutinizer: that often? must be an edge case02:42
sivangreal men use mailing lists :-p02:42
luke-jr_pfft02:42
sivangluke-jr_: hehe02:42
luke-jr_real men use NNTP02:42
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sivangluke-jr_: for news?02:42
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luke-jr_the standard protocol for such purposes02:43
sivangluke-jr_: dude, that's the past02:43
nox-sivang, gmane02:43
luke-jr_what protocol has replaced NNTP?02:43
Carnequehi all is there a good organizer that syncs with outlook calendar?02:43
sivangluke-jr_: so you have a news reader for MLs?02:43
nox-<nox-> sivang, gmane02:43
sivangluke-jr_: no protocl02:43
luke-jr_sivang: ML is just a hacky implementation of discussion groups02:43
luke-jr_NNTP is the standard protocol for them02:43
DocScrutinizerCarneque: simply? no02:44
luke-jr_I suppose one could implement discussion groups with IMAP4…02:44
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luke-jr_Carneque: I doubt many, if any, people serious about N900 use Outlook, or even Windows02:44
sivangnox-: ah, I will look to how to allows to subscribe and everything, never thought about checking it02:44
Carnequeanything for organizing urself?02:44
* sivang used to use NNTP in 199702:45
nox-sivang, example: gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.user02:45
luke-jr_unfortunately, NNTP clients are falling by the wayside02:45
DocScrutinizerCarneque: more elaborate: there's ways to sync the maemo genuine calendar and contacts, and there are organizers that sync easily but don't integrate into maemo well02:45
luke-jr_but it is still the standard, and still best suited for the purpose02:45
sivangnox-: I'll install a news reader, do we have something for the tablet?02:45
nox-you are soo right luke-jr_02:45
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nox-sivang, im cheating i ssh to a bsd box and run trn4...02:46
sivangnox-: heh02:46
luke-jr_once upon a time I wrote a discussion group server that supported frontends for email (mailing list style), NNTP, and phpBB2…02:46
sivangI can try and do it on my server actually, and then I Might not need gmail at all!02:46
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luke-jr_storing messages losslessly in their native/original formats internally, as well as convertible metadata02:46
Carnequewhat should i download on my computer so i can update my schedule there and sync my phone with it?02:47
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sivangperhaps other than proper email02:47
luke-jr_Carneque: in theory, you can probably use any standard calendar app and git or bazaar02:47
DocScrutinizerluke-jr_: WUT??02:47
nox-sivang, i run mutt on the bsd box too :)02:48
sivangnox-: ah mutt! me long lost friend02:48
luke-jr_DocScrutinizer: don't tell me Maemo isn't standards compliant for calendar? :/02:48
sivangit is isn't it?02:48
sivangther'es a paper about that somehwere02:48
DocScrutinizerwtf has calendar of any form to deal with git??02:48
Carnequehmmm ive never heard of git or bazaar02:48
luke-jr_DocScrutinizer: for syncing02:48
luke-jr_all my PIM data is in a Bazaar repo02:48
hatake_kakashisivang, not really, your friend has different needs and wants compared to me.. I still would have loved to have my very own first linux phone02:49
* DocScrutinizer scratches head, extendedly02:49
nox-sivang, and i even have a local nntpd for a few lists that i dont read via gmane02:49
luke-jr_DocScrutinizer: efficient sync and merging capable02:49
sivanghatake_kakashi: sure, I was not saiying it can come instead of a linux phone02:49
DocScrutinizerluke-jr_: sounds nifty02:49
Carnequethis is basic functionality isnt it?02:49
sivangnox-: that's 7133t02:49
luke-jr_DocScrutinizer: my maildir is also in git02:49
luke-jr_DocScrutinizer: and I have a server-side script that automatically makes commits for changes (monitored with inotify)02:50
Carnequei would think peeps wuld be all over developing that02:50
hatake_kakashisivang, not for me, I thought symbian would have been more flexible than that motorola crap OS I had on me lost motorola v302:50
hatake_kakashialas that wasn't the case02:50
DocScrutinizerluke-jr_: that's damn nifty for sure02:50
luke-jr_DocScrutinizer: works well, even with ~220 folders and over 700,000 messages02:50
Carnequeis anyone interested in a project like that?02:51
DocScrutinizerCarneque: take it. Nobody of the devs really is using outlook02:51
sivanghatake_kakashi: well depends on what you're used to I guess. I've only had Samsungs and Ericsson and they were not customiziable anough to my taste02:51
luke-jr_anything else would take forever to sync that… but git can pull it off snappy02:51
luke-jr_so I get real-time backups ;)02:51
sivangbzr new knit format is cool, yes02:51
sivang"new"02:51
luke-jr_(it pushes to my local desktop too)02:51
sivangit is not that much new by now02:51
sivangso how od I get back the root mode?02:51
sivanghmm02:51
sivangthrough HAM?02:51
luke-jr_02:51
luke-jr_sudo -i -H02:52
sivangluke-jr_: ah, thanks02:52
Carnequei guess im confused... i dont need outlook just something like it on the desktop02:52
nox-or the rootsh package02:52
luke-jr_Carneque: honestly, I maintain 3 independent calendars02:52
luke-jr_one of which is Maemo's02:52
hatake_kakashisivang, or there's always the option to ignore mainstream developers at the time and head for linux phones :) remember trolltech qtopia? :)02:52
luke-jr_the other, KDE's on my desktop02:52
sivangalso the prompt changes, so I don't get the ncie "/home/user>" anymore02:52
luke-jr_finally, a custom one I wrote for a weekly unchanging stuff02:52
DocScrutinizerCarneque: aiui sync to a evolution server is pretty much ootb. So if you're using standard gnome/linux02:53
sivanghatake_kakashi: never had ti, but read about it yes.02:53
sivanghatake_kakashi: quite rad in my view, and predicted a bit of the future if I may say02:53
* luke-jr_ glares at DocScrutinizer for putting 'gnome' and 'standard' together02:53
Carnequeevolution server02:53
Carnequehmmm02:53
* DocScrutinizer is amazed to type the cgar seqence starting with 'g' at all02:53
luke-jr_hmm, my maildir git repo is 25 GB now…02:53
DocScrutinizerg* == EVIL02:54
Carnequei then setup a server to manage my calendar?02:54
sivangluke-jr_: asks for a password02:54
luke-jr_sivang: so give it02:54
sivangluke-jr_: the root one?02:54
hatake_kakashisivang, it made me droll but it was not available in shops around my area at the time.. I still would have loved to own it compared to what has been my epic time of using mainstream brands of phones until n90002:54
DocScrutinizerCarneque: a server in unix is a process, not a box02:54
DocScrutinizerCarneque: you got several servers on your N900 even02:55
Carnequei worked in debian and never heard that term explained like that im still fresh though02:55
DocScrutinizermost commonly known is X server02:55
sivangluke-jr_: have no idea what the password it, /me tries to install rootsh from HAM02:56
Carnequewhich is a box right?02:56
DocScrutinizerCarneque: wikipedia is your friend02:56
* sivang don't get why restore did not reinstall the rootsh package and since he did not erase the .bash* stuff why everytning changed for the prompt settings etc02:57
Carnequeyeah but im in a chattin mood02:57
sivanganyway, time to continuw with this tomorrow02:58
sivangbyte all! thanks for all the fish!02:58
Carnequenice02:58
sivang(and for teaching how to fish)02:58
sivangerr, bye all, that is.02:58
Carnequenite all im out too02:59
Carnequeill check out git and bizaar thanks for the advice02:59
DocScrutinizersivang: pkgs installed via apt-get aren't backup'd. Just a kind reminder. Also a hint: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools02:59
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luke-jr_[18:55:50] <DocScrutinizer> most commonly known is X server03:01
luke-jr_[18:56:12] <Carneque> which is a box right?03:01
luke-jr_LOL03:01
DocScrutinizerI was amazingly calm and reluctant, no?03:02
nox-DocScrutinizer, you seen this ticket?  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=600903:02
povbot`Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications03:02
luke-jr_wrong is subjective03:02
luke-jr_:p03:02
DocScrutinizerhmm, not yet03:02
nox-theres a patched .deb in there (and also my workaround)03:02
nox-luke-jr_, well a `real' xterm doesnt send an esc sequence for keypad enter either03:07
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nox-well or at least not a wrong one :)03:09
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DocScrutinizernox-: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools :-D Thanks03:39
nox-yw :)03:40
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yacc_any idea why an installed applet (flashlight-applet) doews not showup?04:03
luke-jr_yacc_: it only shows up when the shutter is open, and the Camera app off04:04
DocScrutinizeryacc_: flashlight applet only shows up in system status menu04:05
DocScrutinizerluke-jr_: actually it also shows when camera is still active, but it's useless :-P04:06
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luke-jr_[20:05:24] <halberd> you can be like jabba if you eat 10,000 calories a day- 5 loaves of bread at $2 a loaf04:06
luke-jr_[20:05:33] <luke-jr_> Jabba isn't a human04:06
luke-jr_[20:05:43] <halberd> jabba isn't real luke-jr04:06
luke-jr_tell me he's lying!04:06
DocScrutinizerwho's jabba?04:07
luke-jr_Jabba the Hut!04:08
luke-jr_you know, Pizza the Hut's cousin?04:08
DocScrutinizer51nfc04:09
luke-jr_04:09
luke-jr_are you serious? O.o04:09
luke-jr_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabba_the_Hutt04:10
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rasterMUHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA04:16
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DocScrutinizerraster: ??? :-D04:26
rasterthats what jabba would say04:27
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DocScrutinizeraah, ok. I prefer hypnotoad04:27
DocScrutinizerr33b.net04:28
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newbie007does anyone know how to animate a svg image on the n900.. I'm thinking of going javascript/setTimeout .. any better ideas?04:38
newbie007fyi the clock is svg based, not sure if animation is supported "smil"?04:40
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TiagoTiagohi04:50
TiagoTiagoseems i might have somehow messed up the thing that autolocks the keysa and screen, it's set to do it but the screen stays lit and responding04:51
TiagoTiagoi/e already treid rebooting as well as unsetting and setting it again04:53
TiagoTiagoi've*04:53
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TiagoTiagoany idea how i can figure out how to fix this?04:55
DocScrutinizer51try replacing mce.ini with a clean version04:57
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TiagoTiagocan i paste the current contents of that file on  pastebin for you to check if ythere is any bad parameters?05:03
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TiagoTiagohttp://pastebin.com/TGqjDe2u <- if you're willing05:05
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DocScrutinizersorry, no obvious odds05:34
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DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: maybe you switched to "screen always on" in any app, like xchat?05:35
pupnikttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/blindtype-vows-to-autocorrect-all-wrongs-by-replacing-your-virtu/    Ok, here's an invention I wish i'd had.  "Blindtype" for android.05:35
TermanaLooks like you could use it to mitigate you missing your h key as well05:37
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pupnikoh sorry05:46
pupniknevertheless it's fun to try to think of how one would implement that05:47
pupnik""Our application permissions model protects against this type of threat. When installing an application, users see a screen that explains clearly what information and system resources the application has permission to access, such as a user's phone number or sending an SMS. Users must explicitly approve this access in order to continue with the installation"  << google on the recent virus announcement05:49
Termanapupnik, android virus? It's not like what google is saying isn't true - it DOES show you in fine grain detail what the application is allowed to do05:51
pupnikTermana: that's quite a nice feature, actually05:53
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DocScrutinizerSElinux?05:56
DocScrutinizerAppArmor?05:56
DocScrutinizerdamn, we have that since ages, not like a new invention of google05:57
nox-tho maemo isnt using it (right? :)05:57
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pupnikway to miss the whole point in true geek fashion, dockane_06:10
pupnikDocScrutinizer:06:10
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kwtmWow, nice bot.  ~seen kwtm06:32
kwtm~seen kwtm06:32
infobotkwtm is currently on #maemo (38m 35s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 4s, last said: '~seen kwtm'.06:32
kwtmOh.  I guess I have to be off for that to work.06:33
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TiagoTiagosorry, got distracted, as far as i know, i don't got anything set to keep the screen on07:01
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DocScrutinizer(bme) you might be interested: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bme_chargefloat_log07:11
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jpinx-eeepcI need to set the n900 up with the local mobile service, but they don't have n900 on their list. What's the next nearest model that uses similar settings?09:18
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parsapersianhi all09:29
parsapersianI can not connect to yahoo in conversations and acound with my nokia n900 mobile device , my error is : not signed in! i have same error with msn , but google talk and aim is ok ,, What should i do?09:30
pupnikhttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/03/magazine/03FOB-medium-t.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss   angry birds makes NYT09:33
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messertingHi, I'm preparing a PDF presentation, and would like to be able to use the TV cable on my n900 (as a backup solution)09:46
messertingIn what resolution would it be best to prepare the PDF?09:46
messertingI'm using LaTeX beamer, and the default of 800x600 doesn't look so good. Anyone has experince with this?09:47
Stskeeps800x48009:50
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RST38hmoo, zap, Stskeeps09:56
messertingStskeeps: ok, will try to find the option in beamer to set that resolution. thanks09:57
Stskeepsmoo RST38h09:58
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cotigaohi, i am getting an error when trying to apt-get update from sbox arm target10:38
cotigaoi following the instructions as per http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_x86-32_Debian_based_distribution10:38
cotigaoERROR: http://pastebin.ca/195313610:38
cotigaoits says packages not found10:38
cotigaoplease help!10:42
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cotigaohi, can anybody help me out here with this? http://pastebin.ca/195314311:00
cotigao**please11:00
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tobis87Hi, seen this http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-October/027687.html ? Could this be backported or does maemo already make use of the hw. accel. for codecs?11:22
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Stskeepsit already does11:29
cotigaoStskeeps, i am having problems with apt-get update, http://pastebin.ca/195314311:30
Stskeepscotigao: you've misconfigured your sb11:30
cotigaoStskeeps, but I am following the instructions as per http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_x86-32_Debian_based_distribution11:32
cotigaoStskeeps, what possibly i could have overlooked?11:32
Stskeepsunsure11:32
* Stskeeps has banned sb from his life permanently, so11:32
Stskeeps:P11:32
tobis87Stskeeps: So it is just important to other projects, like the beagleboard and pandaboard. Maybe the vlc people could make use of it, but vlc for maemo seems to have stalled.11:33
Stskeepstobis87: it's important for meego, too11:33
Stskeepson n90011:33
tobis87Why? If it already uses it, what is new on this that it is available as source?11:34
Stskeepsit was always available as source, afaik11:35
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cotigaoStskeeps, is there any alternative to this? ... i mean a documented one11:37
Stskeepscotigao: you need to use the install script11:37
Stskeepsand it'll set it up proeprly11:37
cotigaoStskeeps, where can i get it?11:37
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Stskeepscotigao: google a bit :)11:38
* Stskeeps is off for shopping11:38
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cotigaoStskeeps, ahh.. ok thanks ... :)11:39
tobis87Btw, do you know a bug which causes "DMA transaction error with device" ? This is all I get, if I want to use the hw encrypt. with 256-essiv.11:40
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tobis87http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63208 , insane "12:Max. 1150Mhz"11:52
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cotigaohi, is there a away to disable charging in n900?12:52
cotigao*way12:52
cotigao*usb charging12:52
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SpeedEvilyes12:55
SpeedEvilbefore you plug it in, stop bme12:55
SpeedEvilwhy?12:55
SpeedEvilstart bme after12:55
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TiagoTiagohi13:13
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TiagoTiagois there a way i can see what my N900 is thinking when it decides to not lock the screen and keys after i leave it untouched for the required time for that?13:14
TiagoTiagosomthing like a live readout of all the parameters it reads to consider whether to lock the screen due to timeout or not13:16
TiagoTiagoor some other status indicator that would shed some light on why it isn't qorking as expected13:17
jpinx-eeepcmy n900 is connected to the internet by usb to this eeepc and through it's wifi, everything works fine excpet application manager, which demands a connection from thte list. The usb connection is not listed, so how do I proceed?13:20
jpinx-eeepcor do I just do apt-get update and upgrade from a terminal?13:21
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sivangmornig all15:07
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jacktheripperwhy's parted not there for fremantle ?15:09
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sivangdid some checking over tinymail, now I wonder if it is also reused for MeeGo?15:12
sivangIf so, hasthe modest shortcomings stem from improper use of tinymail or from misdesign and coding in the modest mail client itself?15:13
* sivang wonders if anybody have an idea15:13
Stskeepsboth, maybe15:13
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Stskeepsi wish modest a horrible death15:14
RST38hStskeeps:you think meego client will be better?15:14
StskeepsRST38h: ref client is not in 1.1 due to bugs, so no15:14
* RST38h sghs15:14
sivangStskeeps: hehe15:15
StskeepsRST38h: i hope someone sane will code a better one15:15
RST38hStskeeps: I think, by now it is clear that the problem is not with built in apps. It is with the way they are developed...15:15
sivangStskeeps: what would you propose as a middleware IMAP/pop local storage lib to be used?15:15
RST38hStskeeps: Based on MMaemo4 and Maemo5 experience, won't happen15:15
StskeepsRST38h: under rush?15:15
Stskeepssivang: no idea15:16
RST38hStskeeps: I can think of several reasons15:16
sivangand if you wondered, so the fact the backup tool has to accept my 'don't overritw' request makes it not restore apps as well15:16
sivangFWIW15:16
sivangDocScrutinizer: hence why my apps were not installed :)15:16
RST38hStskeeps: 1) constant rush 2) unexperienced developers, with high turnaround 3) development policies preventing actual development from happening15:17
RST38hStskeeps: 4) constantly changing priorities, with developers being shuffled between projects15:17
sivangDocScrutinizer: I knew I used HAM to install every one of them , I thought I was going crazy recalling doing so15:17
RST38hStskeeps: Honestly, I have no idea which of these are affecting Maemo/Meego Devices, but some clearly are15:18
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* sivang tries to find a good linux imap lib with good performance and support for good caching.15:18
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sivangnow what? the udate light is blinking and nothing happens in HAM15:19
sivangand it said it wasgoing to restore the apps15:19
sivangah! after a while, things get clear.15:21
* sivang notes HAM shoudl REALLY have some BETTER progress indication15:21
sivangI was going to click it away already15:21
sivang:-...(15:21
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sivangis FAM better at progress indication?15:21
Termanasivang, it would be nice if HAM just didnt suck. Period.15:21
Termanasivang, FAM is much better and much faster imo15:22
Termanafapman15:22
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Termana:p15:22
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GAN900sivang, welcome to Maemo: Where it's all half-assed!15:23
n900-spacehi all15:24
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n900-spacei installed the latest nokia qt sdk, and when i launched the qt creator it says help is not installed. Any ideas why not?15:26
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sivangTermana: I will install it once th restore is finished, does it hae proper progress indication?15:30
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TiagoTiagoit seems somtimes when i restart mce the autolock works a couple of times, but then it stops working again15:35
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wazdthere's no FAM, there's only Fapman :D15:39
RST38hwazd:moooooooooooooo15:39
wazdRST38h: heya :)15:39
Noobmonk3ywooooop15:40
* MohammadAG slaps Noobmonk3y around with a large frals15:40
RST38hwazd: http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/096/b/5/Russian_elephants_by_Waldemar_Kazak.jpg !!!!15:40
Noobmonk3yhey mo!15:40
Noobmonk3yhows the land of maemo today?15:41
RST38hsleepy.15:41
Noobmonk3yawwwwwww15:41
TiagoTiagomy N900 doesn't feel like autolocking the screen anymore :(15:41
wazdRST38h: jeez :D15:42
Noobmonk3yTiaago, has it got swine flu?15:42
RST38hsorry tohear that, I am afraid you will have to put it down15:42
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TiagoTiagoit isn't sneazing nor anything, and it isn't feverish either (for an N900, if it was a human it would need imediate medical attention)15:44
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sivangTiagoTiago: mine does this as well15:48
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sivangRST38h: hehe, using a sleep shot?15:48
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TiagoTiagosivang, does what? Stop autolocking or just be warm?15:50
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sivangTiagoTiago: both :)15:52
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sivangwhat does MicroB have with geolocation?15:52
TiagoTiagoany idea how i can fix the autolocking behavior?15:52
sivangthere's a package maemo-geolocation, do I need it? (HAM restore asks me which packages to restore)15:53
sivangalso, should I report a bug about the HAM oddity ?15:53
TiagoTiagothere is an extension to let webpages see your location data (from GPS or cell network)15:53
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MohammadAGso15:58
MohammadAGshould a thread which violates the GPL license be kept alive?15:58
Stskeepsreport it for copyright infrigement or council?15:58
sivangMohammadAG: on the forum?15:59
RST38hHow do you violate GPL in a foru thread?15:59
MohammadAGhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=831506&postcount=115:59
* sivang is curious as well15:59
RST38hNo, really?15:59
MohammadAGthey're distributing the neopwn kernel without a source15:59
StskeepsRST38h: mentioning RMS's smell15:59
MohammadAGon their own repo16:00
MohammadAGand they're stating it's their property16:00
Stskeepsheh16:00
TiagoTiagotalk with the owners of the intelectul property or whoever else enforces the GPL16:01
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MohammadAGthe owner hasn't published the binaries publicly16:01
TiagoTiagoi mean tell them what's going on so they can take action16:02
RST38hMohammad: So how does he violate gpl?16:02
TiagoTiagoreleasing binnary copiled with GPL code without releasing source?16:03
psycho_oreosyou do realise there's lots of source codes that hasn't been published.. much like that hacked fm-transmitter16:03
MohammadAGfmtxd?16:03
MohammadAGthat isn't GPL licensed16:03
TiagoTiagoask them for the source, if they don't give you then report them to the authorities16:04
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psycho_oreosfmtx-si4713.ko16:04
RST38hPaleontologists Unearth Giant Fossilized Penguin16:05
TiagoTiagolol16:05
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, talk to jacekowski then :)16:06
MohammadAGthe source is available in the linux kernel, it has the numbers changed to match each other16:06
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, the plain one is available in the maemo patched linux kernel but not the hacked one :) so maybe jacekowski should also be reported? :)16:07
MohammadAGhe can provide the source for it upon request, those guys can't16:08
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, the neopwn kernel doesn't have a public source16:08
psycho_oreosbut why only on request? isn't that still somewhat a partial violation?16:08
MohammadAGno16:08
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, that's true but that module doesn't have a source until requested16:08
MohammadAGsometimes I release binaries without a source16:09
MohammadAGand I get a PM (usually from Matan) about it16:09
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MohammadAGthen I provide the source (or the patches)16:09
MohammadAGhmm16:10
* MohammadAG thinks he found a way to disable transitions in hildon-desktop16:10
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TiagoTiagoany idea how i can fix the autolock not happening, or at least figure out why?16:11
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psycho_oreoshmm16:14
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MohammadAGTiagoTiago, probably mce being an ass about it16:15
MohammadAGeither restart mce and see if that works, or reboot16:15
MohammadAGstop mce then start mce16:15
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TiagoTiagonope16:16
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TiagoTiagohad already tried with the LED pattern editor, and rebooting, somtimes it works again, but that only lasts one or two unlocks16:17
TiagoTiagotried now with the commands you said, nothing changed16:17
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Goliath23hi16:21
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Goliath23is there a way for a homescreenwidget to programmatically change it's size?16:21
Goliath23how does it play together with the values in the .desktop file?16:21
DocScrutinizerI already suggested mce.ini clean, but inspection of TiagoTiago's pastebin didn't show particular odds16:22
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TiagoTiagotried again and this time it locked once, i unlocked it and it isn´t locking again16:24
TiagoTiagoi tried replacing it anyway still nothing16:24
DocScrutinizeralarmd, mce, dbus, damn that can be a lot of things16:25
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TiagoTiagono way to diagnose it?16:25
DocScrutinizerhard16:25
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TiagoTiagocars got plugs you stick a laptop in and it says what is wrong....16:26
Goliath23homescreenwidget on a n900 that is .. (hildon I guess)16:26
DocScrutinizerltrace mce (if that doesn't instantly reboot your system) - alas you'll have to analyze the log yourself16:26
TiagoTiagothere isn't a thing that says what mce is seeing and what it's thinking?16:27
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DocScrutinizernot afaik16:28
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TiagoTiagoi'll try that command you said16:28
DocScrutinizerbut a dbus-monitor --system | less might help as well16:28
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DocScrutinizerif any app is disabling screen blanking, then it most likely will do via dbus msg to mce16:29
TiagoTiagoltrace not found :/16:29
TiagoTiagoi dont got less either :(16:30
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DocScrutinizerdebugging mce isn't a ootb-usecase :-P16:31
TiagoTiago"ootb" ?16:31
DocScrutinizer~ootb16:31
DocScrutinizer~wtf ootb16:31
infobotGee...  I don't know what ootb means...16:31
DocScrutinizer~useless16:32
* infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :(16:32
DocScrutinizer~ootb is Out Of The Box16:32
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer16:32
TiagoTiagoi see16:32
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TiagoTiagocan i install somthing relativelly safe that will let me do it?16:32
DocScrutinizerapt-get insrall less ltrace16:32
TiagoTiagok16:33
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TiagoTiagoany other utils that might come in handy?16:33
DocScrutinizerdbus-monitor16:33
DocScrutinizerguess that's default install though16:34
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DocScrutinizerwonder ehy16:34
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DocScrutinizerwhy*16:34
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TiagoTiagowhat should i look for in the scrolling text?16:35
DocScrutinizera msg to mce, asking to keep screen unblanked16:36
DocScrutinizercheck dbus pages e.g of jebba16:36
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TiagoTiagothat less thing doesn't update16:39
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TiagoTiago"signal sender=:1.431 -> dest=(null destination) serial=380 path=/com/nokia/mce/signal; interface=com.nokia.mce.signal; member=system_inactivity_ind" ?16:40
mc_teohey there16:40
mc_teoi finally got scratchbox all set up16:40
mc_teoand working with xepher server too16:41
TiagoTiagosignal sender=:1.41 -> dest=(null destination) serial=6515 path=/com/nokia/iphbd; interface=com.nokia.iphbd; member=wakeup15016:41
TiagoTiago?16:41
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: yes, noticed that16:42
mc_teofirst port of call, whats the easiest way to move things over to the n900 itsself?16:42
TiagoTiagothat was another msg16:42
TiagoTiagotwo so far i've noticed had words that could indicate being  related to my issue16:43
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mc_teoi tried compiling winexe from its sourceforge source, and it compiles grand under both x86 and arm archs16:44
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DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: sorry, I can't really help here. As mentioned above, you'll probably have to analyze the logs yourself16:45
mc_teobut i imagine it needs all of its own libs, etc, so how can i package them all together16:45
TiagoTiago:(16:45
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TiagoTiagogonna try that ltrace thing16:46
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: I honestly think your mce is segfaulting and gets restarted. Failing screenblanking is a known issue of restarted mce.16:47
TiagoTiagowold there be a log registring when it segfaults?16:47
DocScrutinizeryou can probably check some files dsme-related the name of which I can't recall right now, to find out if mce got restarted16:47
TiagoTiagowhere can i find the names/paths?16:48
DocScrutinizerask here16:48
DocScrutinizeror skim /var/*16:48
DocScrutinizeror google16:49
TiagoTiagook, what is the name of the dsme related files that will tell me when mce got restarted?16:49
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TiagoTiagoany suggestion of keywords that might speed up the search?16:51
TiagoTiagowould the file have a .log extension?16:54
DocScrutinizerdon't think so16:55
TiagoTiagoor be inside a folder with log in the name?16:55
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DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_resets16:58
DocScrutinizeretc16:58
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TiagoTiagomce itself isn't mentioned in the files there17:01
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: also a simple ps can tell you about mce's PID, and that will change on restarts17:02
DocScrutinizersyslog also might help17:03
DocScrutinizerbut for sure the best clue is to remember what you installed or did immediately befor the problem started17:04
DocScrutinizerand the easiest fix is to reflash17:04
TiagoTiago:(17:04
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steinex[C17:05
DocScrutinizeruninstall fcam, it's known to interfere with mce17:05
TiagoTiagowhere do i find the syslog?17:05
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: there'll be none unless you installed syslogd17:06
DocScrutinizerdmesg might hold just enough of info though17:06
TiagoTiagoi'll go install that17:06
DocScrutinizerfirst go uninstall fcam!17:07
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TiagoTiagok17:08
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DocScrutinizerfcam is known to do nasty really wrong things to indicator LED, which in turn may cause mce to segfault17:11
DocScrutinizeriirc that is17:11
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TiagoTiagoshould i reboot after uninstalling fcam?17:13
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TiagoTiagoif reboot isn't needed then uninstalling it made no difference17:15
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TiagoTiagook, i'll reboot, brb17:18
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TiagoTiagoseems that did it17:27
DocScrutinizer:-P17:27
DocScrutinizer~lart fcam17:27
* infobot installs a bad bootloader on fcam and turns fcam into a brick17:27
TiagoTiagogonna reinstall fcam and see if the issue returns17:27
DocScrutinizeryes it will17:27
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DocScrutinizeras mentioned above, fcam does wrong things to indicator LED (google for fcam blink), and this will eventually lead to same problem again17:28
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TiagoTiagowell, if it does happen again later, i'll know what to do, meanwhile i'll keep having manual settings avaiable for special shots17:29
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MohammadAG<DocScrutinizer> fcam is known to do nasty really wrong things to indicator LED, which in turn may cause mce to segfault17:30
MohammadAGmuhaha, noobs17:30
MohammadAGI added LED support to my app in a not so clean way, but it doesn't bother the CPU17:30
MohammadAGerr, mce*17:30
TiagoTiagoerm, it is still installed o.o17:31
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TiagoTiagolets see if it still autolocking....17:33
TiagoTiagoballs :(17:33
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TiagoTiagoremoving it with other means now17:35
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sivangMohammadAG: mce = maemo camera engine?17:39
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sivanghow nice, usb hangups are no on the laptop as well :)17:39
* [XeN] is now away: Hi, this is the answer mashine. Leave a message after the beep. Beep.17:39
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TiagoTiago~mce17:40
infobotMCE = Machine Check Exception17:40
TiagoTiagoi don't think that is it17:41
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TiagoTiago~bce17:41
DocScrutinizermachine control entity17:42
TiagoTiagoisn't it mode?17:42
DocScrutinizeryeah17:42
sivangah, yet another entity ,like the dsme17:42
sivang~dsme17:42
infoboti guess dsme is Device State Management Entity17:42
DocScrutinizer*cough* yes17:42
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DocScrutinizer[XeN]: disable that away message!17:44
sivangso how does fcam makes mce segfault?17:45
DocScrutinizerit opens LP5523 sysfs nodes, so mce fails when trying to access those, afaik17:45
DocScrutinizermce is stupid enough to simply segfault on such a simple problem17:46
DocScrutinizerfcam is ignorant enough to access lp5523 indicator LED sysnodes directly, instead of using well documented easy-to-use mce interface for that17:47
TiagoTiagobut does it do it even if i don't fire up any camera program?17:49
DocScrutinizerdunno, camera-ui is started as a daemon, during boot. nfc what fcam does17:49
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DocScrutinizerI never really wraped my head around it. It's just a "meh, oh well..." for me, followed by immediate uninstall of fcam17:51
TiagoTiagohaving manual controls for the camera parameters is a big thing for certain types of photographers17:52
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DocScrutinizersure17:52
DocScrutinizerfor me fcam never performed up to par to the genuine pr1.2 cam app17:53
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DocScrutinizertil PR1.2 the Nokia cam app was real crap. The PR1.2 though has improved a lot, and I'm quite happy with nightmode. So major PITA is you can't exactly remote control the camera-ui, for example to implement timer shots, or BT remote control shots (think of a BT headset pushbutton used to trigger a photo taken)17:57
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* RST38h isn't sure what the "improvement" was. It is still crap, and the software has nothing to do with it.18:01
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MohammadAGwhat's the chmod to make users only able to see their own files?18:02
MohammadAG777?18:02
MohammadAGnah18:02
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TiagoTiagouse midnight commander or some other graphical interface to set permissions, no need for doing binary AND  and binnary to decimal convertions in your head :)18:05
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satmdMohammadAG: no file on earth should need 77718:06
satmd0600 is user all, others none18:06
sivangMohammadAG: you can do somethin like chmod a-rwx , then chmod u+rwx on the ir with -R flag18:06
sivangor what satmd said :)18:07
satmdu=rw,g-rwx,o-rwx18:07
satmdor that one18:07
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MohammadAGmohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:/home$ cd mohammad/18:08
MohammadAGbash: cd: mohammad/: Permission denied18:08
MohammadAGfvck18:08
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satmdoh, for directories, you'll need +x, too18:08
marcus_So just checked Phoronix, and this came up "New to Wine 1.3.4 is support for right-to-left mirrored windows, Winelib now supporting the ARM architecture..."18:08
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marcus_What does the last part affect?18:08
satmdprobably you can compile windows-sourcecode against winelib to run on arm18:09
sivangMohammadAG: execute bit on directories mean the abilty to cd into them :P18:09
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RST38hMohammad: go-rwx18:12
MohammadAGthere's a number afaik18:12
DocScrutinizersivang: not exactly. execute bit on dir means you can read the dir content, like in ls18:13
TermanaMohammadAG, correct, there are lots of numbers in the universe.18:14
DocScrutinizersetting a dir -x sometimes comes handy, as world still can read files from that dir IF and only IF they know exact full path to file18:14
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: number? which number? 700 or what?18:15
sivangDocScrutinizer: ah, so you can still cd into it? Okay, everyday you learn something new18:15
sivangDocScrutinizer: ah no, you can just read files off of it if you know exact path.18:16
TiagoTiagowhat happens to GUI file browsers/managers?18:16
DocScrutinizersivang: given cd probably is a shell local thing to set $CWD, I'd not expect any problems in cd'ing into a -x dir18:17
sivangDocScrutinizer: MohammadAG> bash: cd: mohammad/: Permission denied18:17
DocScrutinizersivang: wasn't that (if you know exact path) exactly what I told before?18:17
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nomisDocScrutinizer: every process has a working directory you can change with chdir(2).18:17
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nomisthat is a process property, not really a shell thing.18:18
sivangDocScrutinizer: sorry I got confused, yes, this i exactly what you said18:18
MohammadAGsivang, I can cd right now18:18
DocScrutinizernomis: ack18:18
MohammadAGI want other users to not be able to18:18
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: RTFM18:18
sivangDocScrutinizer: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/270183/18:19
sivangDocScrutinizer: 16:18 < DocScrutinizer> sivang: given cd probably is a shell local thing to set $CWD, I'd not expect any problems in cd'ing into a -x  dir18:19
* DocScrutinizer doesn't bite on unknown bait18:19
dRbiGhmm, the maemo sdk image for virtualpc fails at step three :S seems not to setup the scratchbox properly18:19
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sivangMohammadAG: chmod a-x $DIR; chmod u+x $DIR18:20
sivangMohammadAG: I am using this to protect backup directories together with making them readonly for everybody unless I specifically make them writeable for root18:21
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sivangMohammadAG: (the files in them, that is)18:21
lindi-sivang: you need to create the file directory initially with correct permissions. otherwise somebody can chdir there before you manage chmod it :)18:22
lindi-s/file //18:22
infobotlindi- meant: sivang: you need to create the directory initially with correct permissions. otherwise somebody can chdir there before you manage chmod it :)18:22
sivanglindi-: true, but no one can log into my machine other than me in a non catastrophic scenario18:23
lindi-( mkdir -m og-rwx foo )18:23
sivanglindi-: so challgne response passwords are disabled, and there only one account that uses SSH keys18:23
sivanglindi-: good note though :)18:23
lindi-sivang: indeed. it's a nasty limitation in *nix, you can't really revoke +x18:24
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steinex418:29
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Anunakincan any talk me on how to use IRC plugin on n900, cant enter on rooms18:49
Anunakin?18:49
DocScrutinizerlindi-: interesting thought :-)18:49
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sivanglindi-: why not ? if you create the this with -m og-rwx as you noted?18:50
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Anunakinxchat works18:50
lindi-sivang: well that's not revoking then18:51
lindi-sivang: revoking means that you previously granted access but want to not grant it anymore18:51
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders if a 'cd foo/bar; mv .. boo' still will cause havoc to filesystem like it used to some decades ago :-P18:51
sivanglindi-: well, but you can no? using chmod a-x and then chmod u+x ?18:52
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korhojoaDocScrutinizer, try it18:52
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lindi-sivang: that won't revoke access from people who have already used chdir to get to that dir18:52
DocScrutinizerlol, I'm not that much interested in it, but I'm rather sure some patch has blocked such nasty thing years ago18:52
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sivanglindi-: ah right18:53
sivanglindi-: changes are not refelcted real time18:53
lindi-sivang: the only way to revoke is to reboot :)18:53
sivanglindi-: but that allows for the great concurrency *nix provide18:53
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sivanglindi-: so when one process accessed a folder, and nother one erased it, or chmod'd it, the former can still operate until it stops :)18:54
sivanglindi-: this does has rather some intereting side effects at time, but hey, nobdy's perfect18:55
DocScrutinizerlindi-: revoking any resources would rewuire some async error feedback making an e.g fopen() in an alien process fail arbitrary time after it originally succeeded. That's really a big thing, and basically a nightmare to cope with, from a app developer POV18:57
* sivang yays, N900 is now with pr1.2 and all apps restored.18:58
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sivangthe backup app is nice, just needs to continue what it was planning to do when refusing to overwrite files,19:00
sivangnot ask the specific file but rahter "thre's a more recent contact data, do you want to restoe the backed up anyways?"19:00
sivangand maybe add file backup as well integrated19:01
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jpinx-eeepcwhen I connect by gprs, which my provider has a proxy for, and then want to revert to my USB network through the gateway I have in the eeepc, I find that the proxy seems to still be in effect as I can not make http connections, but i can do stuff like irc yahoo etc on other ports. I fix it by cycling all the connections, but that is a real pain, is there any better way?19:20
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DocScrutinizeryes, I'd suggest set proxy to none when establishing usb networking19:27
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sivanghmm anyone seen his 3G network connection not available anymore from the network context menu after the upgrade?19:31
* sivang thinks maybe he needs to do that carrier setup stupidity19:31
sivangwhere they send you an SMS19:31
sivangwith some details and you have to do something with it19:31
keesj_the upgrade?19:32
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sivangkeesj: ?19:33
sivangI just lost the "3G Network" connection but ironically I have an "MMS" one19:33
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: sure - but that is also a pain when I have to jump between them a lot19:34
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: so you got any better suggestion than to streamline the not really supported usb networking to make it fit into maemo's connection management scheme?19:36
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: I hadn't up till now, but if it needs doing I'll take a look19:36
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sivangwhat adds the network connections possible to the choose network menu?19:42
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* sivang cries19:50
SpeedEvilI think that's ICD19:50
SpeedEvilIt's closed19:50
sivang?19:51
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piggz_hi, is there a problem with repository.maemo.org?19:59
jacktheripperisn't mmcblk0p2 only mounted through /home and /opt ?19:59
jacktheripperI umounted both and it's still saying Device or Resource busy.20:00
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GAN900SpeedEvil, yes.20:10
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jukhey hey guys just ported catdoc! so exciting! considering how badly i was feeling yesterday, after messing with scratchbox I had to go for fresh install, was realy frustrating, but took advantage and upgraded to 10.10 yet another exciting event, everything is so shiny! and scratchbox install went smoothly, and emulation works, but first i have to start Xephyr and then from X86 box af-sb-init.sh start, i was wondering how actually I can interact in emulation, can I20:21
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QantouriscCan anyone explain me why Android is more favored ?20:23
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jukQantourisc: device chiper can run it, non reach people dominating20:24
Qantourisc"non reach people" ?20:24
Qantourisc"device chiper" ?20:24
Pillum"can" ?20:25
jukQantourisc: sorry for mispell, i can repeat20:25
Qantouriscjuk: yes please i cannot correct the mispells20:25
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jukQantourisc: it can run on cheaper cost devices, and in my place price 300$ vs 500$20:29
Qantouriscooo nice20:29
Qantouriscstill don't need a smartphone but i's getting closed, so reacheaching in advance20:29
Qantouriscand one of the weirder question will be how i do my IM :)20:30
jukQantourisc: and in my place who can afford n900 is rich man20:30
Qantourisc:/20:30
Qantourisci don't even know if i want IM on my phone :)20:30
jukQantourisc: still in doubt?20:30
Qantouriscin doubt over ?20:31
jukQantourisc: you from Belgium or what?20:31
QantouriscCorrect20:31
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jukQantourisc: so no wonder, Belgium vs Asia20:32
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pupnikhow about a clamshell tablet with 2x 1280x600 screens hinged tightly to minimize bezel20:32
Qantouriscjuk: ?20:32
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Otacon22Hi all, I have a problem on my N900 and evry time that i try to add something into the calendar i get "error"20:34
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jukQantourisc: ok, $43,533 vs $6,100, GDP per capita, Belgium vs China20:40
Qantouriscjuk: serious price difference :)20:40
jukQantourisc: what im talking about ;)20:41
lcukOtacon22, hrm, thats not good20:42
Otacon22:(20:42
lcukpupnik, supposing you did, are we having any real gaming/keyboard controls on it too?20:42
Otacon22The calendar opens, but when i try to add something inside i get "Error"20:42
lcukOtacon22, do your existing cal entries work well?20:43
lcukie, edit an existing one20:43
Otacon22wait20:43
* lcuk makes a note in his calendar to wait20:43
Otacon22I don't have entries here20:44
Otacon22(i don't know if it is because i've just flashed20:44
lcukdid you restore from backup after you flashed too?20:45
Otacon22no20:45
Otacon22hum, i have an old backup, I'm going to try to put on that20:45
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pupniklcuk: i was wondering if something like that could be made useful and attractive, lcuk20:47
lcukof course it could be pupnik20:48
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lcuki have been holding pairs of devices together for yonks20:48
pupniki now20:49
pupniki don't think it's attractive with that much bezel20:49
lcukunderstandably so20:49
lcukpupnik, are you meeting up with Carol this weekend? I noticed she flew into Germany20:52
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QantouriscAre there any phones where you can drop the latest ISO from android or maemo on without passing by your manufacturere ?20:57
LjLsince when do android or maemo come as an ISO? :o20:58
Qantouriscor source, or build or whatever :)20:58
QantouriscStill funny to see how companies use linux on there stuff, yet it's nothing like linux :/21:00
SpeedEviln900 is still only it21:01
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user___hi all21:02
QantouriscSpeedEvil: yes i know, and if you want to install, you need to download from nokia ?21:02
pupnikhow are n900's selling?  any guesses?21:02
SpeedEvilprobably slower thanthey were.21:02
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user___MohammadAG51: do you know how to enable 3g network after 1.2 upgrade ? this is sivang21:03
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luke-jr_user___: it just worked for me21:04
user___luke-jr_: hmm21:04
user___i dont know why it disappeared21:05
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user___but there was some mention of it but no solution in google21:05
user___and i did chose latest firmware21:06
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lcukuser___, isn't there an app which forces 2g only?21:07
lcukthat you mightv forgotten about21:07
Qantouriscon most phones you can configure if it should use 3G 2G Edge, etc ...21:07
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user___lcuk: i specifically set itt to 3g trnasport21:13
lcukuser___, http://maemo.org/packages/view/3g2g-mode-selection-applet/21:13
lcukok21:13
user___lcuk: what odd is that MMS is there and i did not add fMMS back21:18
QantouriscI think i'd best wait till netbooks become phones :)21:21
ShadowJKN900 and freerunner I'd guess21:21
ShadowJKbut freerunner presents its own challenges :D21:21
ShadowJKmaybe nexus one too21:21
ShadowJKbut, drivers drivers drivers21:21
Qantouriscdrivers is there own fault21:22
Qantouriscif you make a chip, write your drivers foss21:22
Qantouriscand no wories ever again21:22
ShadowJKsure, but from a user's point of view, freerunner and N900 are probably in the best driver position :/21:23
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l0upanyone using pymedia on n900? i cant get the setup script to detect ogg, vorbis, mp3lame, alsa etc21:35
Qantouriscl0up: no but i'm familiar with "crap" in general :)21:38
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Qantouriscanything specific it says ?21:39
jacktherippere2fsck tells me 'device or resource busy' while I totally umounted everything relate to /home and /opt21:39
Qantouriscjacktheripper: did you use umount -l ? (lazy) ?21:40
l0upquanttrom: just says it cannot detect anything and asks if i want to continue21:40
jacktheripperQantourisc, yes21:40
Qantouriscjacktheripper: lazy unmounting might still leave the FS mounted21:40
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Qantouriscjacktheripper: it makes it inaccessable for new programs and request, not the ones that are open :/21:40
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jacktheripperQantourisc, can I find what's opening the device ? I already tried fuser and lsof.21:41
Qantouriscjacktheripper: lsof and fuser reveiled nothing in use ?21:41
Qantouriscjacktheripper: also if ther eis anything mounted in /home or /opt it's an issue21:42
jacktheripperQantourisc, lsof did reveal stuff before the lazy unmounting. fuser never showed me anything.21:42
l0upQantourisc: maybe i should have the devlibs installed? but i cant install libogg-dev, says that libc6-dev is needed but not installable21:42
Qantouriscl0up: not sure21:42
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l0upand libvorbis-dev says it needs libogg-dev21:42
Qantouriscl0up: but it can't detec alsa either ?21:43
Qantouriscor is used oss ?21:43
l0upnope21:43
l0upit says "Using UNIX configuration..."21:43
Qantouriscl0up: i'd first try something less complicated that python first21:45
Qantouriscl0up: try mpd :)21:45
l0uphmm21:45
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l0upi need to play and possibly record sounds with my python/pyqt app21:46
jacktheripperQantourisc, I tried killing the processes using the device. One of them was browserd (it looks important yes). Killing it just brought it back again. When I kept repeating `pkill`, the phone rebooted. Does that mean I can never unmount /home successfully ?21:47
Qantouriscjacktheripper: if you need to do maintaince i recommend 2 possible ways21:48
kerioconsidering /home holds... half of the binaries? i'd say no21:48
Qantouriscjacktheripper: method 1) Boot into a sort of resque mode21:48
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sivangkerio: the dmse rebooted the device?21:48
jacktheripperthought about that, does the N900 even have one ?21:48
dolpwhat's the best way to make my widget to do something everytime SMS is sent? any suggestions what to look for?21:48
Qantouriscjacktheripper: method 2) Connect to the computer as a block device, giving full acess to the memory by your computer (if your phone supports this)21:49
Qantouriscjacktheripper: and then do the fs2chk from your computer21:49
kerioQantourisc: huh?21:49
sivangdolp: there is an app tat responds to calls, you can use what's there to write it to you widget21:49
kerioQantourisc: /home/ is never unmounted on the n90021:49
Qantourisckerio: hes trying to fs2sch some volumes21:49
sivangdolp: pycallblocker is the app'sname , available from extras-testing21:49
dolpsivang: thanks.. i'll take a look at it21:50
Qantourisckerio: that's why your need some sort of resque mode, or attach it to your computer as a "usb-disk" (without booting the OS) if the device supports it21:50
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keriowhat device?21:50
jacktheripperQantourisc, I'm actually trying to resize /home. I'm doing the whole e2fsck thing because I lazily unmounted the volume. (parted says it didn't unmount cleanly)21:50
kerioaren't we talking about the n90021:50
jacktheripperyes n90021:50
kerioyeah, ass rage only works for MyDocs21:50
Qantouriscjacktheripper: if it's ext ... you might be able to do a online resize (if you want it bigger)21:51
* RST38h yawns and wonders what to do tonight21:51
Qantouriscjacktheripper: i read someone where you had to push a button while connected to the pc while booting so you could update/flash the device, the same method might be used for this but instead of updating messing with it21:51
lcukjacktheripper, tsk tsk, you need to be aware which order you are unmounting things - /opt is a mountbind to /home/opt - so if you are trying to unmount home first won't it already be in use/21:52
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kerioumounting /opt/ will not go well imo21:53
lcuknope, but he can always reflash21:53
kerioif that's an option he can use it right now21:54
Qantouriscsource: "http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware"21:54
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Qantourisc1) Ensure the battery is fully charged.21:54
keriochanging the text file in the eMMC image to make /home/ bigger21:54
Qantourisc2) Unplug the USB cable if present, and switch off the device.21:54
Qantourisc3) N900: While holding the u key, connect the N900 to your computer via USB. Wait until you see a dim screen on your N900 with a Nokia logo in the middle of your screen with an USB icon in the top right corner.21:54
QantouriscNote: If the USB logo does not appear, and the device turns off - ensure the battery is charged by connecting to the wall charger for an hour and try again.21:55
Qantourisc4) You don't need to continue to hold any buttons once flashing starts.21:55
Qantourischmmm once the flashing starts ?21:55
lcukQantourisc, GTFO the wiki exists so that lot doesn't need to be pasted21:55
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Qantourisclcuk: well it's not a exact copy21:55
Qantourisci skipped a few lines21:55
Qantouriscbecause it's to update21:55
Qantouriscbut if my huntch is right21:56
Qantouriscthe above will give you access to the disk21:56
Qantouriscmaking whatever jacktheripper is trieing to do easy21:56
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jacktheripperI hope so. Lemme try.21:56
jacktheripperand thanks21:56
DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools21:56
The|AvatarHi!21:56
Qantouriscjacktheripper: ofcours it might not give you access to the disk but only some flasher thing :) you'll have to try and see21:56
RST38hwazd.21:57
Qantouriscjacktheripper: make sure the backup whaver you need back21:57
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jacktheripperQantourisc, actually, I think so instructions are only used with flasher21:59
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jacktherippers/so/those21:59
Qantouriscpitty :/21:59
Qantouriscwithout some sort of rescue mode or direct disk access this might get tricky21:59
The|AvatarIs anyone here, who could give me some hints as to why my maemo-sdk installation refuses to start hildon?22:00
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lcukThe|Avatar, you will have to talk more than that, first time installation?  non standard host OS? never installed it?22:01
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l0upQantourisc: is it possible to play multiple sounds at the same time with mpd?22:01
Qantouriscno22:01
Qantouriscbut it plays over alsa,oss and plays ogg,mp3,flac,wav,...22:02
Qantouriscso it should be a good test22:02
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Qantouriscl0up: mpd is a media-library-player22:02
l0upyeah22:02
Qantouriscl0up: i only recommended it because it's a C program with minimal layers allowing you to hopefully find the issue22:02
Qantouriscit's also one of the smaller examples i could think of22:03
l0upah, i see22:03
The|Avatarlcuk: of course. Second tima actually. Host OS is Kubuntu. Installation wnet without error so far. The toolchains work as well. Start of Xephyr works. ...22:03
lcukjacktheripper, if you recall developers of old, they used punch card systems and pre-wrote (carefully) their software before running it.  writing a script to do something at system start could be considered a similar task ;)  also, there are ways to shut down most of the apps on the system without a reboot22:04
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The|Avatarlcuk: but when i start af-sb-init.sh start, i get lots of error...mostly like "ailed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory"22:04
Qantouriscafter a lot of reading i decided vs android or maemo22:04
lcukThe|Avatar, so the scratchbox install and all toolchains sdks and everything is on and you can build stuff, you just can't run the emulation thingy22:05
jacktheripperlcuk, including browserd ? :D do you have any idea what it does when the browser is not running (if it's even related to it) ?22:05
The|Avatarlcuk: right22:05
lcukjacktheripper, at the very least browserd is waiting22:06
lcukThe|Avatar, I have never really run anything in the xephyr, but pastebin the errors it gives22:07
lcukperhaps someone else who does will recognise it22:07
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Qantouriscmeego looks promossing22:11
The|Avatarlcuk: http://pastebin.com/miQVBuYp22:12
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Qantouriscdid anyone notise a "closeing source" trend for maemo ?22:15
Qantouriscif not i'm certain of my choice for the future22:15
StskeepsQantourisc: what will happen with meego on nokia is probably that they'll stick their apps and differentation on top of it, all of it closed source, while contributing to the common platform22:16
StskeepsQantourisc: contributing to the common platform isn't a small thing though even though it sounds like it :)22:17
GAN900Qantourisc, it's one of those sick "where're more open here, but less here" trends.22:17
Qantourischmmmm22:18
Qantouriscandroid i consider "closed"22:19
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Qantouriscno X11, no default root support, etc22:19
_llll_maemo is pretty much in no-one's future, right?22:19
Stskeeps_llll_: pretty much22:19
Qantourisc"in no-one's future" ?22:19
_llll_if you wnt a long-term platform, it isnt maemo22:20
Qantourisc_llll_: so what you recommend ? :)22:20
* Stskeeps 'd say meego22:20
Qantourisccustom cook ? :)22:20
Stskeepssimply because it has the most potential for actual open devices22:20
GAN900Qantourisc, well, MeeGo is certainly better than that.22:20
GAN900Qantourisc, the closed stupidity comes from process stuff, and vendor differentiation.22:21
Qantouriscwell meego sort of is maemo successor as i read it ?22:21
GAN900Sort of22:21
ViiruGetting open hardware would be best.22:21
_llll_dont know, meego is interesting.  i'm yet to be convinced until i see a device actually using it though22:21
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_llll_but my n900 does what i need it to do well enough22:21
GAN900Though MeeGo seems to not want to be dirtied with too close of an association.22:21
Qantouriscyea, for me it's to early for a smart phone22:21
ViiruAfter that happens the rest doesn't matter. The community can sort out the software stack to run, as was done on the desktop.22:21
Qantouriscthe market is still relatiliy crap22:21
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StskeepsViiru: i'm pretty happy with the fact i can make phone calls and use a modern UI with redistributable 3d accelerator libs, battery management, wifi and bt firmware..22:21
_llll_im more interested in a better battery than a better os22:21
StskeepsViiru: that's pretty open22:21
lcukStskeeps, redistributable?22:22
Qantourisc_llll_: batteries are a hard thing to improve22:22
Stskeepslcuk: yes, hell froze over22:22
Qantourisc_llll_: usually it's hardware and software draining it :)22:22
ViiruStskeeps: "Redistributable" is enough for open? Actual openness doesn't matter?22:22
lcukso does this mean that luke-jr_'s dream of 3d in gentoo can happen?22:22
lcukor some such22:22
StskeepsViiru: considering the current market in ARM, it's good enough for me22:22
lcukor is it just "distributable with meego"22:22
ViiruStskeeps: Isn't my idea of open hardware.22:23
StskeepsViiru: alright then, but it's a big step22:23
Stskeepslcuk: if we cut out 'luke-jr' of the equation, then yes - we can't do 'distributable with meego' cos repo.meego.com is mirrored on kernel.org22:23
ViiruStskeeps: If you say so. I don't really care how the closed 3d-drivers and assorted firmware get on the device.22:23
Stskeepslcuk: luke-jr would never take dirty blobs22:24
lcukok Stskeeps - but the point reamins22:24
Qantourisc'lcuk: so does this mean that luke-jr_'s dream of 3d in gentoo can happen?' ?22:24
lcukis it redistributable fully as in they can be used and included (for instance) on debian22:24
lcukI know purity issues etc22:24
Stskeepslcuk: yes, go read the licenses22:24
Stskeepsnokia bits are distributable for non-commercial purposes22:24
Stskeepswhich makes sense22:25
Stskeepssgx isn't limited like that22:25
Stskeepsjust for TI hardware22:25
lcukhmm22:25
lcuk"non-commercial" is still a limitation though22:25
Stskeepsit is22:25
Stskeepsbut it saves worse conditions22:25
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lcukindeed :) its a good result from your time with the vendor social contract stuff22:26
ViiruI don't consider the difference between "I downloaded these binary blobs of the net" and "I ripped these binary blobs out of the software that came with the phone" to be in any way meaningful.22:26
Stskeepsi'm just happy to be making my own open images i can redistribute without getting sued22:26
lcukok, so thats sgx22:26
GAN900Viiru, hehe.22:26
lcuknow if someone wants to post a meego image themselves22:26
lcukis that feasible now too?22:26
Stskeepslcuk: yes22:27
lcukgetting better :D22:27
GAN900I think that depends a lot on who you're associated with (i.e., meego.com).22:27
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lcukthat shouldnt matter should it GAN90022:27
GAN900s/i.e./e.g.22:27
lcuksomeone gets meego running on XYZ hardware22:27
GAN900lcuk, @ Viiru22:27
lcukand wants to post image to help others22:27
sivanghttp://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/ this is Fenec and not microb right?22:28
Qantouriscmeego image for n900 is avaible22:28
Stskeepsyeah, on repo.meego.com22:28
* lcuk will do more reading next week in work time, I am offski for now22:29
sivangalso, my firmware bin file has SE in the file name, does that mean something?22:29
sivangargh, too late, I have to run. Be back later, sorry for asking and going away.22:29
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lcukgnite folks, enjoy your beers \o22:30
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nox-moin22:34
_llll_Qantourisc: stabbing oneself in the eye is also available, is meego any less painful yet?22:36
Qantourisc_llll_: doubt it :D22:37
_llll_hehe22:37
Qantourisci just hope it will be ready by the time i need a smatphone :)22:38
Qantouriscand also hope there are cheaper smarthpones then :)22:38
Qantouriscright now 500€ =)22:38
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_llll_my n900 was free with a contract22:40
QantouriscoO ?22:40
Qantouriscwhat contract ?22:40
JartzaMy N900 was also "free"22:45
nox-not that you dont pay the price back anyway with such contracts :)22:45
nox-just in monthly increments22:46
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nox-and i just looked, i payed ~ eur 40022:49
Qantourischehe22:49
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Qantouriscin belgium how expensive is gprs ?22:50
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luke-jr_Stskeeps: the blobs are distributable without some EULA clickthrough or such nonsense?23:16
Stskeepsluke-jr_: yes23:16
kthomas_vhMohammadAG,  still interested in the n810?23:16
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MohammadAGkthomas_vh, a bit short on money, so I can't buy it atm :(23:16
luke-jr_Stskeeps: where at?23:17
luke-jr_Stskeeps: or would I need to put them somewhere?23:17
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Stskeepsluke-jr_: you okay with rpm format?23:17
luke-jr_Stskeeps: rather not :P23:17
kthomas_vhalas,  I'll list it on yad2,  probably get more there :)23:17
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luke-jr_then I need to add DEPEND=rpm2targz23:17
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Stskeepsluke-jr_:23:17
Stskeepshttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/non-oss/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/23:18
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luke-jr_Stskeeps: no upstream w/ proper tgz or such?23:19
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Stskeepsluke-jr_: well, TI's own dist or srpm contents23:19
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luke-jr_Stskeeps: where is TI's copy?23:20
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luke-jr_Stskeeps: xorg-x11-drv-fbdev-sgx isn't open? so no using it without MeeGo builds of X.org? :/23:21
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luke-jr_hrm, come to think of it, that'll be a problem with the GLES libs too, won't it? …23:21
Stskeepsluke-jr_: it's open23:22
Stskeepsluke-jr_: for technical reasons we have it in non-oss23:22
luke-jr_i c23:22
Stskeepssrpm should be there, if not, it's a bug23:23
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luke-jr_it's not in that dir you linked, no23:23
luke-jr_what about ABI issues on the other libs?23:23
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Stskeepsgot a recent glibc?23:24
luke-jr_dunno, that's the problem23:24
timeless_pidginHello world23:24
luke-jr_Gentoo could be any glibc :P23:24
luke-jr_or uclibc23:24
Stskeepsheh23:24
luke-jr_or who knows23:24
luke-jr_more liekly a problem is GCC version23:25
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Stskeepswe're on 4.523:25
luke-jr_4.3 is not ABI compatible with 4.4, and neither of those with 4.523:25
* timeless_pidgin is about to book an easyjet flight out of manchester 23:25
luke-jr_Gentoo stable is 4.423:25
luke-jr_testing is probably 4.523:25
timeless_pidginGcc.. Linux.. Abi... Very funny23:25
luke-jr_tbh, I don't know *any* solution to that short of distributing only code23:25
timeless_pidgin4.5.0 is of course broken23:25
luke-jr_even if someone built binaries for each combination, Gentoo has no real way to use them properly23:26
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timeless_pidginDistribute .dll's23:26
timeless_pidginLet people use winelib to import your portable code23:26
timeless_pidginUse any compiler you like.23:27
timeless_pidginLet anyone use any compiler they like23:27
timeless_pidginClean. Simple. Hassle free.23:27
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timeless_pidginObjections come from the NIH crowd23:27
luke-jr_hmm23:27
luke-jr_that's an idea, sortof23:27
luke-jr_a .a with some wrappers that use asm to call the real funcs…23:28
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nox-so dll.s made with diff mingw gcc versions are compatible?23:29
luke-jr_didn't mean actual dlls :p23:29
nox-heh ok23:29
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absichi. i'm new here. i'd like23:33
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absicsorry23:35
absici'd like to get some help. I'm interested in N90023:35
absicbut am concerned about Nokia's shift to MeeGo. Would you say I should wait for a MeeGo device?23:36
timeless_pidginNox: if you provide proper dll runtimes, and properly manage memory, yes23:36
timeless_pidginAbsic: i'm using my n900 right now, in Liverpool23:36
timeless_pidginI couldn't use a MeeGo device today. It doesn't exist.23:36
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timeless_pidginIf you want to wait for an unspecified amount of time for a future product because you have no real pressing need23:37
timeless_pidginThen waiting makes sense23:37
timeless_pidginIf you have a pressing need23:37
timeless_pidginThen waiting doesn't make sense23:37
luke-jr_absic: as timeless hints, it really depends on what you want23:37
timeless_pidginYou're probably somewhere in between23:37
jacekowskinox-: as long as their api is compatible23:38
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luke-jr_absic: care to mention why you might want a N900?23:38
absictimeless_pidgin: Thanks. I think I'll just go ahead and get it23:38
nox-jacekowski, nice23:38
timeless_pidginNox: basically dll's export functions according to a standardize mangling scheme23:38
nox-ah didnt know that :)23:39
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* nox- more a *ix person as you might have guessed...23:39
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luke-jr_absic: often people who don't have a N900 have misconceptions on what it is capable of, FWIW23:39
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jacekowskiwell, same on *nix23:39
timeless_pidginYou can of course write a dll that *doesn't* work well23:39
absicI like that it is a phone and runs Linux. I am a newbie on the Linux side of things, and I intend to stay by Tux23:39
luke-jr_timeless_pidgin: none of these ABI problems have anything to do with mangling23:39
timeless_pidginBut that's independent of everything else.23:39
jacekowskibut on *nix people tend to break API a lot often23:39
luke-jr_absic: N900 doesn't run Linux any more than Joe Android Phone23:40
jacekowskiso if you compile old source with new gcc it will be compatible23:40
SpeedEvilIMO, it does.23:40
timeless_pidginNox: basically you'd want your .dll to link against the msvc6 crt, or to statically link a crt23:40
SpeedEvilYou can get root from the default repo, and then install GCC just by adding another repo.23:41
luke-jr_absic: at least not with Maemo; MeeGo might change that23:41
absictimeless_pidgin: could you please alaborate a bit on what you mean about "misconceptions"23:41
jacekowskiluke-jr_: it's closer to gnu/linux than android23:41
SpeedEvilWay closer than android23:41
luke-jr_absic: while Nokia isn't officially supporting MeeGo on N900, they *are* paying people to port it23:41
luke-jr_jacekowski: X11 isn't GNU23:41
jacekowskiyeah, but you have standard libc23:42
jacekowskignu libc23:42
timeless_pidginIf it statically links against a crt, then it doesn't have problems (in general, minus ensuring you do memory management correctly)23:42
jacekowskiwith some gnu tools23:42
luke-jr_X11 is basically the only notable difference between Android and Maemo23:42
jacekowskiand gnu stuff23:42
luke-jr_jacekowski: Android doesn't use glibc?23:42
jacekowskiluke-jr_: and libc23:42
jacekowskinope23:42
jacekowskino glibc on android23:42
luke-jr_o23:42
jacekowskino libc at all23:42
luke-jr_wtf?23:42
jacekowskithey use their own incompatible implementation23:42
luke-jr_gotta have *some* libc23:43
jacekowskicalled bionic23:43
luke-jr_busybox requires a libc23:43
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luke-jr_absic: lots of people seem to think N900/Maemo is open source. in reality, it's like Mac OS X23:43
jacekowskiit's not as bad23:44
b-man`luke-jr: android doesn't use busybox by default23:44
luke-jr_absic: less than half of Maemo is open source, mainly just the parts required to be open source legally23:44
luke-jr_b-man`: what's teh CLI then?23:44
b-man`luke-jr: android it uses it's own called "toolbox' :P23:44
jacekowskiluke-jr_: there isn't any23:44
jacekowskiluke-jr_: not by defaul23:44
b-man`built on BSD stuff23:44
jacekowskiluke-jr_: and stuff that runs on that phone is ported to bionic23:44
jacekowskiluke-jr_: or running on dalvik23:44
absicluke-jr: this is interesting information indeed23:45
jacekowskiluke-jr_: dsme is open source23:45
jacekowskimodest is open source23:45
jacekowskiparts of hildon23:46
jacekowskihmm, what else23:46
absictoo bad Swaziland gets devices like these last :(23:48
pupniksomeone has to be last23:48
timeless_pidginFwiw, a lot of the stuff that isn't open source isn't worth opening.23:50
luke-jr_jacekowski: DSME is only open source after Nokia stripped it of any actual functionality23:51
timeless_pidginThe calculator for instance is closed source iir23:51
timeless_pidginBut you really don't want to see it23:51
luke-jr_lol23:51
timeless_pidginAnyone can make a better one23:51
timeless_pidginAnd starting from the maemo one would be like starting 500m behind the starting line for a 100m race23:52
timeless_pidginPossibly drunk, and likely dizzy23:52
johnxin my experience, the biggest problem was getting it to other devices with a small team23:53
johnxit doesn't matter that the calculator sucks, but not having one is lame, and re-coding it from scratch is a waste of time when the team is only about 3 people23:54
Stskeepscalculator engine is open source23:54
timeless_pidginIn our case, it'd have been better to find an html one and use that23:54
johnxboth valid points, but I was using it as a general example ;)23:55
timeless_pidginCost: 1 man, 1 week to find it. 1 man, 2 weeks to make it internationalized23:55
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timeless_pidginTranslating it is handled by another team23:56
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valgrindhi there...23:57
valgrindcan i ask a question about the 770 here ??23:57
SpeedEvilyes23:57
timeless_pidginJohnx: the point is that we sent some team probably of 3 people to make the theming disaster of a calculator. And managed to introduce some calculator bugs23:58
SpeedEvilMost of us are here for hte n900 though - I don't know how many have a clue23:58
timeless_pidginAnd botch the ui23:58
valgrindtrying to connect a usb keyboard. tried 2008HE. using xterm to try to switch to host mode. no luck.23:58
valgrindooh ?? right.23:58
valgrindwell.. downgraded now.23:58
valgrindand the n900 ?? no host mode.. ?? right ??23:58
johnxtimeless_pidgin, I actually liked the UI ... :P23:59
pupnikvalgrind: thinkoutside stowaway works pretty well here on 770.23:59

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