| FrieT | it doesn't bug me, but it'd be nice to see the overhead gone so sip will work at sane clockspeeds | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| trumee | yes, as i said before i dont think there are many sip users around | 00:00 |
| lcuk | like I said, its movie night | 00:00 |
| FrieT | lcuk: on the note of overclocking: my phone boots up at 550mhz ;) | 00:00 |
| lcuk | what did nokia care say when you contacted them? | 00:00 |
| trumee | FrieT: well it does bug me a lot. this is my primary phone when i am on and about, and i make more sip calls then i do mobile calls | 00:00 |
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| FrieT | nokia care say regarding what? | 00:01 |
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| lcuk | your problem | 00:01 |
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| FrieT | ..? | 00:01 |
| trumee | lcuk: is nokia care >> maemo bugzilla? | 00:01 |
| FrieT | isn't "nokia care" an oxymoron ? | 00:01 |
| lcuk | no | 00:01 |
| genewitch | lcuk: how do i check the filesystem on maemo? | 00:01 |
| lcuk | nokia care is the official support mechanism for your n900 | 00:01 |
| FrieT | yup as far as whining goes | 00:02 |
| FrieT | good idea | 00:02 |
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| FrieT | one day i'll make a sip call and call em | 00:02 |
| FrieT | :P | 00:02 |
| lcuk | go for it, please. | 00:02 |
| FrieT | "can't hear you" | 00:02 |
| FrieT | "wait lemme redial with my samsung" | 00:02 |
| FrieT | -g- | 00:02 |
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| FrieT | mind you i'm a happy n900 camper | 00:03 |
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| FrieT | didn't buy this phone expecting a polished device | 00:03 |
| trumee | FrieT: it would be good idea to vote on bug 10388 as a first step | 00:03 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? | 00:03 |
| FrieT | it's a hacker's toy tbh | 00:03 |
| lcuk | indeed, and you have hacked it greatly | 00:03 |
| trumee | FrieT: i was expecting a solid sip support. wouldnt have bought it if i knew this was coming | 00:04 |
| lcuk | trumee, for sanity sake, please try connecting to an official sip provider and just confirm it | 00:04 |
| trumee | lcuk: ok. will try that. | 00:04 |
| lcuk | and I do hope you find a setup that works happily for you :) | 00:05 |
| trumee | lcuk: thanks. but an official sip provider doesnt work for me since all my family use my pbx server | 00:05 |
| FrieT | trumee: well it'd be fair to blame nokia though | 00:05 |
| FrieT | they did market the thing as a phone, after all | 00:06 |
| genewitch | how do i force fsck to unmount? | 00:06 |
| lcuk | trumee, try it - then if it works/doesn't work you can take a step forward | 00:06 |
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| lcuk | genewitch, you umount yourself beforehand | 00:06 |
| FrieT | ok this bug is bookmarked next to the imap client bug:d | 00:06 |
| trumee | lcuk: yup. will try it tomorrow. | 00:06 |
| FrieT | :) | 00:06 |
| lcuk | >>> movie | 00:06 |
| * FrieT praises lcuk for keeping his cool :) | 00:06 | |
| FrieT | thanks for putting up with us dude | 00:07 |
| FrieT | enjoy the movie! | 00:07 |
| genewitch | it says it is busy | 00:07 |
| trumee | gn all | 00:07 |
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| genewitch | cannot umount /media/mmc2: busy | 00:08 |
| genewitch | mind you i am typing umount /dev/mmcblk0p1 | 00:08 |
| genewitch | oh | 00:08 |
| genewitch | duh | 00:08 |
| genewitch | no, same thing | 00:08 |
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| FrieT | mmm | 00:14 |
| FrieT | i'll do sandbox later, not this prefab image. worthless. worthless me , anyway;) | 00:14 |
| FrieT | scratchbox | 00:15 |
| FrieT | even | 00:15 |
| FIQ|n900 | hm, would be cool to have fremantle installed native, for sake of it. :P | 00:16 |
| FIQ|n900 | (in the computer i meant) | 00:16 |
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| FrieT | duno:p | 00:16 |
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| genewitch | i really need to stop letting other people touch my n800, the filesystem was trashed | 00:17 |
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| E0x | nokia tables devices are very personal devices.. | 00:18 |
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| genewitch | wow, everything is gone | 00:19 |
| genewitch | i think a majority of my /usr directory is gone | 00:19 |
| ShadowJK | wtf | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | how did that happen :-) | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | or did you have clone to mmc or something | 00:20 |
| genewitch | ShadowJK: someone popped the back cover off while in use | 00:20 |
| genewitch | i think | 00:20 |
| genewitch | yeah i boot from internal mmc | 00:21 |
| genewitch | i just have to redo it | 00:21 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 00:21 |
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| genewitch | It's really not that good of a solution, really, all i really wanted was to be able to move the default program storage area to the mmc so i could install more stuff. | 00:22 |
| genewitch | booting from mmc makes the n800 pretty slow at everything. | 00:22 |
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| MNZ | FrieT, should I just pull the headphones and test for myself? :D I'm dying here | 00:24 |
| Jartza | http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/14/nokia-hires-peter-skillman-former-palm-design-vp-as-meego-user/ | 00:24 |
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| luke-jr | FrieT: since that time, T-Mobile seems to be screwing around with port 5060 | 00:32 |
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| crashanddie | lol at 15 moderator points... again | 00:38 |
| crashanddie | (on /.) | 00:38 |
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| MNZ | PS. I just tried mplayer -> alsa, no PA, with the hardware filter. Nothing fried and/or exploded | 00:41 |
| MNZ | FrieT, ^^ | 00:41 |
| FrieT | yeey!! | 00:41 |
| FrieT | :) | 00:41 |
| FrieT | ok.. i'm off to bed:p | 00:42 |
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| pupnik | congrats MNZ!!! | 00:43 |
| MNZ | thanks :) | 00:44 |
| pupnik | you're the second guy i know in the community who got dsp doing something useful | 00:44 |
| pupnik | major win | 00:45 |
| MNZ | not dsp! audio codec | 00:45 |
| MNZ | different things :D | 00:45 |
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| mynameis | hey, can one of you verify the safety of this: http://cgi.ebay.com/2X-BATTERY-CHARGER-NOKIA-N900-5800-X6-5230-Nuron-/400153959310?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item5d2b08db8e | 00:45 |
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| ShadowJK | it's ebay | 00:46 |
| ShadowJK | when it explodes you get to keep all the pieces | 00:46 |
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| internetishard | no, I mean, if it is what it says it is, it is up to par with n900 actual battery | 00:46 |
| ShadowJK | Typically they're about 1000mAh or so.. | 00:48 |
| internetishard | I just don't wanna hurt my baby | 00:48 |
| ShadowJK | maybe 1200 if you're lucky :-) | 00:48 |
| internetishard | it says 1350 mAh | 00:48 |
| ShadowJK | I can print a label that says "Over 9000 mAh" | 00:48 |
| internetishard | so long as it won't hurt my baby | 00:49 |
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| internetishard | so, you think it is safe, ShadowJK - that's what you're saying? | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | I don't think I'd use it myself | 00:52 |
| internetishard | what would you do if you wanted a charger and an extra battery? | 00:53 |
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| MNZ | I'd use it! for fireworks! | 00:53 |
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| internetishard | lol, guys, I'm serious | 00:54 |
| kerio | internetishard: meh, buy it | 00:55 |
| internetishard | are all of the 100s of cheap batteries on ebay really able to hurt the n900 (even though they're marked for it) | 00:55 |
| kerio | worst that can happen, it swells and you throw it away | 00:55 |
| CreamyG | or it blows up in your face before you notice | 00:55 |
| kerio | CreamyG: yeah, right | 00:56 |
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| kerio | if batteries have that kind of energy, why can't i use 3g for more than 8 hours :( | 00:56 |
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| ShadowJK | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=745462&postcount=100 | 00:56 |
| CreamyG | li-ion is very dangerous | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | kerio, well there's a difference between releasing that energy in 30,000 seconds compared to 0.1 second :) | 00:57 |
| internetishard | it didn't hurt his n900, though | 00:57 |
| kerio | it hurt his wallet :< | 00:57 |
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| nox- | moin | 00:58 |
| internetishard | okay, so the concensus is that it wont hurt the n900 | 00:58 |
| internetishard | http://cgi.ebay.com/2X-BATTERY-CHARGER-NOKIA-N900-5800-X6-5230-Nuron-/400153959310?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item5d2b08db8e this thta is | 00:58 |
| ShadowJK | Take note of the original shape and form when it arrives | 00:58 |
| kerio | internetishard: i have the same charger | 00:58 |
| ShadowJK | If it ever looks bigger than when it arrived, or swells, immediately stop using it | 00:59 |
| kerio | the led didn't work, so i just leave the battery in for 12+ hours | 00:59 |
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| kerio | oh, and the plug broke so i had to open it and connect it manually to another plug | 00:59 |
| internetishard | you got it on ebay? | 01:00 |
| internetishard | you get another battery too? | 01:00 |
| kerio | yup | 01:00 |
| kerio | the looks of the battery is the same | 01:00 |
| kerio | same charger, too | 01:00 |
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| CreamyG | lol also buy house insurance | 01:03 |
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| CreamyG | for when it catches fire when the charging doesn't stop | 01:03 |
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| kerio | CreamyG: *meh* | 01:04 |
| crashanddie | CreamyG: is it just me or have your only contributions been about things exploding and pessimistic shit? | 01:04 |
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| kerio | CreamyG: wait, the house will catch fire? | 01:05 |
| kerio | how? | 01:05 |
| kerio | :O | 01:05 |
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| kerio | concrete doesn't burn... | 01:05 |
| crashanddie | "Experts call for protecting sites in Asia to ensure the survival of the tiger." <-- Felines need SSL now? | 01:05 |
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| MNZ | like so: charge -> boom -> hit curtain -> fire -> reach garage -> catch on to car -> bigger boom -> neighbour's dog catches fire -> runs into bushes -> neighbour's house and garden catch fire | 01:06 |
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| MNZ | BOOM -> neighbours garage -> yous see where this is going | 01:06 |
| ShadowJK | I guess you could use a liposack | 01:06 |
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| kerio | MNZ: that actually made me lol | 01:07 |
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| CreamyG | haha seriously man it's pretty unlikely but i've seen product reviews on dealextreme for their chinese battery chargers... not all positive | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3o_2mwRPdw <- liposack | 01:08 |
| crashanddie | cars don't explode when they catch fire, do they? | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | (first half of video is without liposack) | 01:08 |
| kerio | crashanddie: in CreamyG's world, they do | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually not | 01:08 |
| MNZ | I believe they do, once it gets to the petrol! | 01:08 |
| crashanddie | MNZ: no, that's just a bigger fire | 01:08 |
| MNZ | (or at least that's what the movies lead me to believe) | 01:08 |
| crashanddie | MNZ: not an explosion | 01:09 |
| MNZ | ok so bigger fire, STILL neighbour's dog will catch fire. | 01:09 |
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| kerio | poor doggy | 01:09 |
| kerio | :( | 01:09 |
| * kerio trashes his external charger | 01:10 | |
| MNZ | kerio, only sensible thing to do really | 01:10 |
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| MNZ | make sure you have meteorite insurance too ;P | 01:10 |
| kerio | that reminds me, i really need to get my usb port fixed | 01:10 |
| javispedro | invest in liposack.com | 01:10 |
| kerio | javispedro: huh? | 01:11 |
| kerio | what's that | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: I've seen this scene in flodder family movie :-P | 01:11 |
| javispedro | http://www.liposack.com/ safe paranoid charging! | 01:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | liposack - ROTFL what a name | 01:12 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: better than fapman | 01:12 |
| kerio | or fapn | 01:12 |
| javispedro | (see above linked youtube for more slashvertisement) | 01:12 |
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| kerio | internetishard: buy a MUGEN | 01:16 |
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| internetishard | mugen? | 01:17 |
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| internetishard | kerio, never heard | 01:17 |
| kerio | internetishard: http://www.mugenpowerbatteries.info/epages/es109514.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es109514_es120302495377/Products/HLI-N900XL | 01:17 |
| kerio | 2400mAh | 01:18 |
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| internetishard | 100$ lol | 01:18 |
| internetishard | that is just as good as two of the cheap ones switched out | 01:18 |
| kerio | without the switching | 01:19 |
| internetishard | makes the n900 bigger too | 01:19 |
| internetishard | and probably heavier | 01:19 |
| kerio | yeah but 2400 | 01:19 |
| internetishard | well I don't have 100$ | 01:19 |
| kerio | well then you're poor | 01:19 |
| internetishard | I'm a student | 01:19 |
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| kerio | so? | 01:20 |
| kerio | don't buy a n900 | 01:20 |
| kerio | STUDY | 01:20 |
| internetishard | i have one | 01:20 |
| internetishard | lol | 01:20 |
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| kerio | why did you buy one | 01:21 |
| kerio | buy the battery first | 01:21 |
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| internetishard | funny guy | 01:22 |
| internetishard | but I hope you weren't joking about this battery being safe because I'm about to buy it | 01:23 |
| smhar | is there a plan for a PR1.3 release? if yes, what would it include? any wish lists available? | 01:23 |
| pupnik | LIVE on-air: Stephan Kinsella on Intellectual Property law: http://lrn.fm:8100/ | 01:23 |
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| internetishard | I hope they update the core software: contacts, groups, sip, calendar, etc | 01:24 |
| kerio | internetishard: it will probably not damage your n900 | 01:24 |
| crashanddie | internetishard: don't take anything you hear on the internet for granted | 01:24 |
| crashanddie | internetishard: we could all be wrong | 01:24 |
| crashanddie | internetishard: and yes, as soon as you receive it, a meteor hits your house, attracted by the unstable particles contained in the battery | 01:25 |
| crashanddie | just use common sense | 01:25 |
| crashanddie | if it's less than $20, who gives a flying toss about the quality, you know you only get what you pay for, right? | 01:25 |
| javispedro | ah, and overclocking your n900 will attract the meteor to your girlfriend instead | 01:26 |
| internetishard | yes, that's fine, it is only a backup for the main battery, but I don't think it should be hard to figure out if it is able to damage the n900 | 01:26 |
| internetishard | hahah | 01:26 |
| javispedro | ;P | 01:27 |
| kerio | internetishard: of course it can damage your n900 | 01:28 |
| kerio | it could be a tiny nuke pretending to be a bl-5j | 01:28 |
| internetishard | yes, but you said it probably won't - by what logic? | 01:28 |
| crashanddie | WHO CARES? | 01:28 |
| GAN900 | Road Runner wants to blame their DNS hijacking on OS X. | 01:28 |
| GAN900 | Idiots. | 01:28 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: lol | 01:29 |
| GAN900 | Then they wanted to know if I've ever downloaded their browser toolbar . . . which only works on IE on XP. | 01:29 |
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| kerio | GAN900: why aren't you using a real dns | 01:30 |
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| GAN900 | kerio, good question | 01:31 |
| GAN900 | I actually am now | 01:32 |
| kerio | level3 or google? | 01:32 |
| GAN900 | Was at some point in the past but forgot to set it up again after a router change | 01:32 |
| internetishard | Let me say something really quick | 01:32 |
| internetishard | I hate Comcast. | 01:32 |
| internetishard | That is all | 01:32 |
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| GAN900 | I just feel a need to fight this one out with the ISP because other people in the area are having the same problem. | 01:33 |
| kerio | so? | 01:33 |
| kerio | tell them to change their dns | 01:33 |
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| GAN900 | Principle of the thing | 01:33 |
| kerio | principles against a corporation | 01:33 |
| kerio | hah, right | 01:33 |
| GAN900 | ISPs shouldn't get away with DNS hijacking services with broken opt-outs. | 01:34 |
| GAN900 | kerio, you'd be surprised. | 01:34 |
| kerio | they shouldn't | 01:34 |
| kerio | but they will | 01:34 |
| kerio | it's long since i stopped caring | 01:34 |
| GAN900 | If you roll over and take it. | 01:34 |
| GAN900 | I'll move my business if I have to. | 01:34 |
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| crashanddie | I yelled at my bank today | 01:38 |
| crashanddie | because they charged me €8.90 because my bank manager added a reference to another account on my website portal (so I can send money to the other account) | 01:39 |
| crashanddie | why did I ask the manager to do it? Because I was unable to do it on the website due to "security risks" | 01:39 |
| kerio | wow | 01:39 |
| crashanddie | Now, I worked for the banking industry, so I know the "security risks" is just "a bug" | 01:40 |
| crashanddie | but I'm paying good money for their services, and I'm also paying for the ability to manage my target accounts free of charge online | 01:40 |
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| crashanddie | I looked up some consumer laws, quoted them, sent an email, and I've been refunded plus 6 months free service :) | 01:41 |
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| crashanddie | adding the reference to my account took a couple of days "Regular processing delays" (MY ASS). Getting redunded took less than 30 minutes. | 01:41 |
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| sp3000 | I thought complaint-based price segmentation was mostly a US thing | 01:44 |
| jacekowski | well, here to send money somewhere i have to add destination account to my web thingy | 01:44 |
| jacekowski | and to do that i just type number and they call me back on my phone | 01:45 |
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| jacekowski | and i have to type number from phone onto website | 01:45 |
| jacekowski | and it's there | 01:45 |
| jacekowski | and from that point i can send money | 01:45 |
| jacekowski | which takes less than 5 minutes | 01:45 |
| jacekowski | sp3000: well, thing is that if you accept prices as they are you are either stupid or in hurry | 01:46 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: well, that's how it supposed to happen on a good system | 01:46 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: hsbc, coop, bnp, they all do it | 01:46 |
| crashanddie | it's just this shitty local bank that understands fuck all | 01:47 |
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| crashanddie | heck, I designed co-op's EMV and OTP system. | 01:47 |
| apol_ | is it just me or it isn't possible to install libqt4-gui due to unmet dependencies on ARM? | 01:47 |
| jacekowski | what about OMG and WTF systems? | 01:48 |
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| crashanddie | anyway, I'm out | 01:49 |
| crashanddie | 'later all. | 01:49 |
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| tripzero | widgetsgallery has been broken for me on maemo for weeks | 01:54 |
| tripzero | anyone else in the same boat? | 01:54 |
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| apol_ | is it just me or it isn't possible to install libqt4-gui due to unmet dependencies on ARM? | 01:57 |
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| tripzero | apol_, install on what? | 01:58 |
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| tripzero | on stock maemo libqt4-gui should already be installed | 01:58 |
| apol_ | tripzero: the maemo sdk (scratchbox on arm mode) | 01:58 |
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| nervewax | Hi I found the IRC through the maemo wiki. I'm going into Digital Media at uni and I am wondering if anyone can put me in the right direction for app development? | 02:20 |
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| luke-jr | nervewax: meego.org maybe; Maemo is dead | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | nervewax: Qt is the future. | 02:29 |
| lcuk | nervewax, the nokia qt sdk is where people are recommended to look | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | nervewax: For both meego and maemo. | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | And sybian | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | symbian | 02:29 |
| lcuk | you can develop a qt app that should work on maemo and follow into meego and symbian and even windows :P | 02:29 |
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| asj | SpeedEvil: might be for the sybian too... ;) | 02:29 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, bsd is dead too, but people still use it | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | asj: I don't think sybian have any platforms that run Qt. | 02:30 |
| lcuk | sybian platforms are rock solid | 02:30 |
| lcuk | :D | 02:30 |
| lcuk | well, theres a bit of movement | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | With very high customer satisfaction rates. | 02:30 |
| TheXception | aren't the gui classes of qt different for desktop and mobile? | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | TheXception: no. | 02:31 |
| lcuk | TheXception, they can be | 02:31 |
| lcuk | heh | 02:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | TheXception: or rather - it's 'just' a recompile. | 02:31 |
| lcuk | depends on what you want to do | 02:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Pretty much. | 02:31 |
| lcuk | a correctly structured application would be built in layers anyway | 02:31 |
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| tripzero | like an onion? | 02:32 |
| * lcuk sleeps | 02:32 | |
| lcuk | yes | 02:32 |
| asj | TheXception: the classes are the same, there are UI issues to consider since phones don't work the same as tghe desktop. But you can use QML/Quick (or how ever it's spelled) and do nice flexible UIs for each platform | 02:32 |
| tripzero | with or without the stink? | 02:32 |
| TheXception | ok | 02:32 |
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| luke-jr | lcuk: BSD isn't dead | 02:35 |
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| lcuk | dying * | 02:35 |
| ljp | naa. just goes by the name of darwin | 02:36 |
| lcuk | although maemo has innovation and new stuff everyday which pretty much makes all the talk of that wrong | 02:36 |
| luke-jr | lol | 02:36 |
| luke-jr | Maemo has no innovation or anything new | 02:36 |
| luke-jr | since PR 1.2 | 02:36 |
| lcuk | fcam came out since | 02:36 |
| luke-jr | fcam isn't Maemo-specific | 02:36 |
| wmarone | dire lack of outlets at technical conferences | 02:36 |
| lcuk | the facial tracking stuff came out since | 02:36 |
| luke-jr | the what? | 02:37 |
| TheXception | one thing which confuses me a bit will next maemo-release be qt-based or will meego be next step? | 02:37 |
| luke-jr | TheXception: there is no next Maemo release | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - there was some nutter that did an inverse motion tracking app. | 02:37 |
| lcuk | we gained graspable full livewp support | 02:37 |
| TheXception | then i wonder about the appeared 1.3 repo Oo | 02:37 |
| lcuk | theres a whole new up and coming fapman revolutionising the way people download and install stuff | 02:37 |
| lcuk | and yeah, we have 1.3 peeking out | 02:38 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 02:38 |
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| lcuk | luke-jr, maemo.org downloads increased from 20 to 30 million in the last month alone | 02:38 |
| luke-jr | TheXception: there might be another PR of the current release, but a PR isn't going to change anything significantly | 02:38 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: relevance? | 02:38 |
| TheXception | ah ok | 02:39 |
| lcuk | people are using and creating and working on more maemo software than ever before | 02:39 |
| asj | luke-jr: the base os is in maintenance mode...what are you expecting exactly? | 02:39 |
| luke-jr | asj: *I'm* not expecting anything | 02:39 |
| TheXception | so the framework to focus application development on is qt, or still on maemo/gtk framework? | 02:39 |
| luke-jr | asj: he asked if the next "release" would be Qt-based or the same as current | 02:39 |
| luke-jr | TheXception: it hasn't been GTK for a long time | 02:40 |
| lcuk | have a look around http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/ | 02:40 |
| luke-jr | TheXception: even while Maemo5 is GTK-based, the focus was already on Qt | 02:40 |
| asj | TheXception: the future is qt, qt and more qt | 02:40 |
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| derf | What's the equivalent of maemo-sdk-debug on the actual device? | 02:40 |
| derf | I'm looking for symbols for ld-linux.so.3. | 02:41 |
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| lcuk | derf ! you found something the packages interface can't even see | 02:42 |
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| lcuk | it normally sees everything | 02:42 |
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| derf | I try not to bother you guys with simple problems :). | 02:43 |
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| lcuk | http://repository.maemo.org/ | 02:43 |
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| lcuk | gives you the list of repos available, which package is ld-linux inside? | 02:44 |
| derf | Gekk if I know. | 02:44 |
| MNZ | dpkg-query -S /lib/ld-linux.so | 02:44 |
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| derf | Yeah, was almost there. | 02:44 |
| derf | libc6: /lib/ld-linux.so.3 | 02:44 |
| derf | I'd already tried installing libc6-dbg | 02:45 |
| derf | And got | 02:45 |
| derf | libc6-dbg: Depends: libc6 (= 2.5.1-1eglibc19+0m5) but 2.5.1-1eglibc25+0m5 is to be installed | 02:45 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=libc6&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same | 02:45 |
| MNZ | try "apt-get install libc6-dbg=2.5.1-1eglibc19+0m5" | 02:46 |
| lcuk | MNZ, your dpkg knowledge is awesome :) | 02:46 |
| lcuk | as is most of your other stuff | 02:46 |
| MNZ | lcuk, just tons of debian roadblocks and googling ;) | 02:46 |
| lcuk | sshhh | 02:47 |
| derf | MNZ: You've got that backwards. | 02:47 |
| derf | libc6 is new. libc6-dbg is old. | 02:47 |
| MNZ | derf, woops | 02:47 |
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| lcuk | derf, try it from the sdk repo | 02:47 |
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| derf | What good would that do? | 02:47 |
| lcuk | none you are right | 02:48 |
| derf | Package manager claims there's an up to date libc6-dbg. | 02:48 |
| lcuk | although it does have the 19 variant | 02:48 |
| derf | Why can't apt see it? | 02:48 |
| MNZ | Version table: | 02:49 |
| MNZ | 2.5.1-1eglibc25+0m5 0 | 02:49 |
| MNZ | 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/free Packages | 02:49 |
| MNZ | that's libc6-dbg | 02:49 |
| MNZ | get the tools repo | 02:49 |
| derf | I just grabbed the .deb | 02:50 |
| derf | Thanks for your help. | 02:50 |
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| nervewax | Ok so if maemo 5 is dead will this qt sdk be able to run on the N900 still? | 02:54 |
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| MNZ | nervewax, maemo is not really dead dead. Qt will run almost everywhere, so it's your best bet | 02:55 |
| tripzero | your mom's future is qt | 02:55 |
| MNZ | heck a few years and Qt will be running on your microwave's LCD. So you better hurry up | 02:55 |
| tripzero | s/future// | 02:55 |
| infobot | tripzero meant: your mom's is qt | 02:55 |
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| TheXception | has n900 full support for vfpv3? | 02:58 |
| MNZ | if that's Virtual Fighter Planes version 3, then no, not yet. | 02:58 |
| tripzero | doh! | 02:59 |
| TheXception | no hardware floating | 02:59 |
| MNZ | though it CAN control helicopters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEXmb922jtg | 02:59 |
| tripzero | vfpv3 is an ARM thing no? | 02:59 |
| tripzero | and i think the omap3 has that? | 03:00 |
| TheXception | yes point is i tried cross-compiling hedgewars to n900, which needs the fpc-compiler using vfpv3 it ends up with SIGILL | 03:01 |
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| tripzero | MNZ, that's fake | 03:02 |
| tripzero | i dont' know if i believe that | 03:02 |
| pupnik | how about porting nogravity to n900 | 03:02 |
| MNZ | tripzero, most people think it's fake :) I think it is as well | 03:02 |
| tripzero | n900 already supports nogravity if you throw it high enough | 03:02 |
| pupnik | it runs the version i compiled for n810 | 03:03 |
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| pupnik | not happy compiled for n900 atm | 03:03 |
| TheXception | if i use soft-floating it crashes due to a bug in soft-floating emulation | 03:04 |
| tripzero | hmm | 03:04 |
| pupnik | hmm | 03:04 |
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| TheXception | i did not found an official fpc package so i hope maybe just some bugs in current svn version of fpc | 03:07 |
| TheXception | *find | 03:07 |
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| TiagoTiago | hi | 03:12 |
| MNZ | hola TiagoTiago | 03:12 |
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| TiagoTiago | isn't the N900 supposed to be able to search and connect to other bt dewvices while connected to a bt headset? | 03:13 |
| TiagoTiago | hi MNZ, the solution that day was simply to uninstall the stufff it was listing as not installed properlly and then reinstall them one by one :) | 03:14 |
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| MNZ | TiagoTiago, I know :) it would just be a hassle as you'd find about them eventually | 03:15 |
| TiagoTiago | I think i might have messed up somthing with the bt of my N900, it fails to see many bt devices while connected to the headset, and OVI suite isn't finding it :( | 03:15 |
| TiagoTiago | btw, does it matter that the hostname and bt name start with 3 digits before getting to the first letter? | 03:16 |
| TiagoTiago | should i uninstall the thing about HFP profile? what about the dun tethering? | 03:20 |
| TiagoTiago | any idea? | 03:23 |
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| TiagoTiago | wtf?! | 03:27 |
| TiagoTiago | OVOI suite thinks my N900 is my N73 o.O | 03:27 |
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| TiagoTiago | how do i remove devices from OVI suite? | 03:33 |
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| TiagoTiago | nvm | 03:34 |
| TiagoTiago | ok, i'll be AFK for bit, bbs | 03:37 |
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| TiagoTiago | back | 03:48 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, it's not finding it :( | 03:49 |
| ShadSEC | SpeedEvil, how accurate would you say are the mah figures of your script? | 03:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: It depends. | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: +-20% | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | But consistently off between phones. | 03:55 |
| ShadSEC | good enough | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | I need to actually measure the current flow out of the battery, and correlate | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | But I haven't had the energy to set it up. | 03:55 |
| ShadSEC | yeah, that would be the real test | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm pondering hard opening up phone to add compass too. | 03:56 |
| ShadSEC | how do you plan to do that? | 03:56 |
| ShadSEC | iconnecting it to a free gpio or something? | 03:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=LSM303DLHTR-ND | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Pull the accelerometer | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Or wire in parallel | 03:58 |
| luke-jr | couldn't you emulate a compass w/ GPS + accelerometers? | 03:58 |
| ShadSEC | oh, so this one has accelerometer and compass | 03:59 |
| ShadSEC | luke, only if you keep walking | 03:59 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: no | 04:00 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I want to be able to record pointing info from pics | 04:00 |
| luke-jr | ? | 04:00 |
| TiagoTiago | there is no way to use any of the exisiting radios to get some sort of directional data relative to the device's oritentation, is there? | 04:00 |
| ShadSEC | tiago, again, only some estimation of your direction while you are moving | 04:01 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: accelerometers can't detect rotation? | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: no | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: It detects 'down' | 04:01 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: You can't tell rotation about the down axis. | 04:01 |
| TiagoTiago | they only detect where is down and translational motion | 04:02 |
| luke-jr | even 2/ 2? | 04:02 |
| luke-jr | w/* | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 04:02 |
| TiagoTiago | you need at least two vectors to get a rotation | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | To quote Blue Peter. | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Here is an answer I prepared earlier. | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals#What_two_three_axis_accelerometers_can_do | 04:03 |
| ShadSEC | swapping the chips will be a real challenge | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Probably paralleling it. | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | It can go on any I2C bus. | 04:03 |
| ShadSEC | and there is enough space for both? | 04:04 |
| ShadSEC | inside | 04:04 |
| ShadSEC | it saw it all pretty tight | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: It's a 5*5*1mm chip | 04:04 |
| ShadSEC | mmm | 04:04 |
| ShadSEC | it is a grear mod, for sure | 04:06 |
| ShadSEC | great | 04:06 |
| TiagoTiago | would 3 accelerometers beat the limitations of using two? | 04:06 |
| TiagoTiago | or the precision errors would still get in the way too much? | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: no. | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: well - in principle - three ideal accels would | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: But in practice no. | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | As they are very inaccurate. | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | And there are good gyro chips, as well as compass chips. | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Consider what 1cm drift on the acellerometer does to a rotation. | 04:09 |
| ShadSEC | SpeedEvil, a gyro is a prerequisite for video stabilization isnt it? | 04:09 |
| MNZ | off for the night. so long folks. | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: no. | 04:09 |
| ShadSEC | it can be done with accels? | 04:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: you can do that basically using the same techniques as MPEG. | 04:10 |
| TiagoTiago | btw, instead of hacking the device's hardware directly, how about that idea i posted in TMO, attaching the additional hardware on the battery cover and communicating with the device via the SD slot with a cable that has the tip shaped like a microSD card? | 04:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | motion compensation. | 04:10 |
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| ShadSEC | i dont mean postprocessing | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: yes - I posted that ages ago. | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: Or during the recording. | 04:10 |
| TiagoTiago | here? | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 04:11 |
| ShadSEC | so then gyros/accels etc wouldnt add better stabilization? | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking#MMC_card | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: there is no direct link between the accels and the camera | 04:11 |
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| TiagoTiago | ah | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: So you'd need to feed in shake compensation into the middle of the video chain. | 04:12 |
| ShadSEC | SpeedEvil, I mean something as that the fcamera guys have done | 04:12 |
| TiagoTiago | i though it would be called SDio instead | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | You can't compensate for shaking. | 04:12 |
| ShadSEC | why dont? | 04:13 |
| SpeedEvil | You can however detect when shaking is happening | 04:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: because you can't translate between - with the existing accel - acelleration and rotation. | 04:13 |
| TiagoTiago | if you got enough processing power you could run a deconvolution in the raw frame to fix the motionblur | 04:13 |
| ShadSEC | isn't that what shaker filter does? | 04:13 |
| SpeedEvil | It depends how you're holding the cam. | 04:13 |
| SpeedEvil | AIUI shaker filter simply avoids taking pictures when it's detecting wobbling. | 04:14 |
| fredrin | hai | 04:14 |
| fredrin | :) are DAVE here? | 04:14 |
| ShadSEC | mmm, you mean theres no way to tell how the shaking is happening to tell the video processor | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: To an extent yes. | 04:14 |
| pigeon | anyone here has sygic mobile map on their n900? | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: basically | 04:14 |
| fredrin | SpeedEvil, yay | 04:14 |
| ShadSEC | a pity | 04:14 |
| ShadSEC | pitty | 04:14 |
| fredrin | does you FR still lives? | 04:14 |
| ShadSEC | i thought it was possible | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: i think the codec runs on the DSP - so in principle you could recode it. | 04:14 |
| fredrin | DocScrutinizer, yarr | 04:15 |
| SpeedEvil | fredrin: I never had one. neo1973 only. And it's dismantled in preparation for recycling into a web-enabled-microwave-oven. | 04:15 |
| fredrin | kek | 04:15 |
| TiagoTiago | if i had to choose between a compass and a gyro, if the compass had a "framerate" at least as good as the gyro, no ghosting/lagging etc, i would go with the compass, it still only provides a direction, but combined with the accells i imagine it would be enough, and as a bonus it would provide absolute values instead of relative | 04:16 |
| ShadSEC | SpeedEvil, now thats going into an area I dont know much. But I get the point that it would be useless for deshaking :) | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Accel + gyro gives you an absolute direction. | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: err | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Accell + magno | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: though you need to play games with filters. | 04:17 |
| TiagoTiago | that's what i meant by compass, a 3d magnetometer | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: And assume that there is no significant long-term accelleration | 04:17 |
| TiagoTiago | like going up in a rocket or skydiving? | 04:18 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 04:18 |
| TiagoTiago | oh, damn, going round and round in a car would provide constant acceleration.... | 04:18 |
| TiagoTiago | would also* | 04:18 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: not quite - unless you also rotate the device | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | But then you can put GPS in. | 04:19 |
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| TiagoTiago | if you're inside the car as it is making donuts you will rotate witih it | 04:19 |
| fredrin | mmmm donuts | 04:21 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: But you can tell it's rotating, due to the compass. | 04:21 |
| TiagoTiago | if the N900 was inside one of those gyrostabilized ballcamerass in the nose of a stuntcopter then things would be different | 04:21 |
| ShadSEC | signal *angulation would be awesome integrating gps and magno | 04:22 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, yeah, but would rotation rate + imprecise GPS (itms usually between a few ameters to dozens of meters worong isn't it) be enough to correct for the centrifugue force? | 04:23 |
| ShadSEC | also it can take into account the position of the antenna relative to ground and use the little directivity it may have | 04:23 |
| ShadSEC | btw, I winder what the radiation patter of the phone is mmmmm | 04:23 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: You feed it all into a kalman filter. | 04:24 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: and out pops a position and orientation. | 04:24 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalman_filter | 04:24 |
| fredrin | what's the problem? Trying to get better rotation on the n900? | 04:24 |
| TiagoTiago | is there a way to trigger that dzt-dzdzdzt interference GSM devices cause in microfones and the like manually with the N900? | 04:25 |
| ShadSEC | trigger? | 04:25 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: send a SMS | 04:25 |
| TiagoTiago | yeah, make it happen at will | 04:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Or toggle the modem | 04:25 |
| TiagoTiago | without paying for it | 04:25 |
| ShadSEC | phone call would be best | 04:25 |
| SpeedEvil | modem off/on | 04:25 |
| ShadSEC | or perhaps just reassociating | 04:25 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, switch to offline and back enough? | 04:25 |
| ShadSEC | i wonder if theres a dbus call to ask it for neighboring networks | 04:26 |
| ShadSEC | i think i saw one | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | no there isn't. | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | not for cel | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | cell | 04:26 |
| luke-jr | fredrin: the problem is N900 has *no* rotation right now | 04:26 |
| TiagoTiago | i once saw on youtube a video of the N900 booting up and way before the homescreens showed it interefeered with the mic | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: modem is a completely seperate CPU | 04:27 |
| ShadSEC | btw, why would you want to trigger interference? | 04:27 |
| TiagoTiago | just for kicks | 04:27 |
| ShadSEC | its it not even that much interference anyways | 04:27 |
| ShadSEC | use a jammer :) | 04:27 |
| fredrin | n900 as a jammer? | 04:27 |
| fredrin | :) | 04:27 |
| ShadSEC | no | 04:27 |
| TiagoTiago | i wonder if i wrap the mic cable around if that would record the sound loud and clear.... | 04:28 |
| fredrin | luke-jr, and it is unsolvable? | 04:28 |
| TiagoTiago | i like that pattern GSM devices make, it's so recognizable..... | 04:28 |
| luke-jr | fredrin: apparently not without opening it up and putting in a compass | 04:29 |
| TiagoTiago | without addtional hardware yes | 04:29 |
| luke-jr | fredrin: N900 is too closed to be an effective jammer | 04:29 |
| fredrin | the Freerunner will work? | 04:29 |
| luke-jr | possibly, from my understanding | 04:29 |
| ShadSEC | luke-jr, you can control the gsm radio on freerunner? | 04:30 |
| luke-jr | ShadSEC: AFAIK, there is a WIP open-source radio firmware for FR | 04:30 |
| ShadSEC | interesting | 04:30 |
| luke-jr | it also supports some low-end non-smart phones | 04:31 |
| luke-jr | that go for like $10 on ebay | 04:31 |
| fredrin | luke-jr, url? | 04:31 |
| luke-jr | I forget | 04:31 |
| ShadSEC | but i have seen those WIP to control a radio from 2005 and nothing has come out yet :( | 04:31 |
| luke-jr | affiliated with OpenBTS I think | 04:31 |
| TiagoTiago | when the plastic case of your bluetooth dongle falls of and you're left with a circuitboard attached to an USB plug itm's probably sing you should buy a new one.... | 04:31 |
| luke-jr | ShadSEC: they can make voice calls to each other now | 04:31 |
| luke-jr | but not to other non-free phones IIRC | 04:31 |
| ShadSEC | yes, someone posted the news here a couple of days ago | 04:32 |
| luke-jr | that's not "nothing" | 04:32 |
| fredrin | luke-jr, ok | 04:32 |
| ShadSEC | luke, using a simulated cell tower or a real one? | 04:32 |
| luke-jr | ShadSEC: sounded like real to me | 04:32 |
| luke-jr | if they're doing it in the US, they can use the 900 MHz deregulated GSM band | 04:33 |
| ShadSEC | then its just the voice enconding what they must have not implemented | 04:33 |
| luke-jr | with the same power limitations as wifi | 04:33 |
| luke-jr | ShadSEC: possible. or an unknown bug in the protocol | 04:33 |
| ShadSEC | if the phone was communicating with a real tower the most dificult part is done | 04:33 |
| TiagoTiago | what could make OVI suite detec my N73 but not my N900 via bluetooth? | 04:33 |
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| ShadSEC | I think that if they dont mentio otherwise, there were using a cell simulator | 04:34 |
| TiagoTiago | not p2p? | 04:35 |
| ShadSEC | or maybe they dont mention it because it is not that legal to connect unofficial terminals to gsm network | 04:35 |
| ShadSEC | there were very interesting information in www.thc.org ..... but it seems itsgone now | 04:36 |
| TiagoTiago | waybackmachine or google cache? | 04:37 |
| ShadSEC | this was main page for the project http://wiki.thc.org/gsm | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/gsm/osmocom-bb/index.html | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | see that | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: | 04:40 |
| ShadSEC | yes, i read it the other day | 04:40 |
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| ShadSEC | this is the most interesting part: Andreas Eversberg has been quietly working on getting call control of Layer3 into a state where it can do all the signalling required for mobile-originated and mobile-terminated call. | 04:41 |
| ShadSEC | that's what i would like to see.... | 04:41 |
| SpeedEvil | not on n900. | 04:42 |
| SpeedEvil | It's in a seperate core that you can't touch. | 04:42 |
| ShadSEC | i know, but its also a field i am interested... | 04:42 |
| ShadSEC | n900 is great for other things, not that one | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | The fun thing is this is - basically - all - osmoom-bb - and related projects - you need to actually crack voice calls in near-real-time. | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | For GSM at least. | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | You would need a moderately-very more expensive radio reciever. | 04:44 |
| ShadSEC | that part is easy, the hardest part is the radio one | 04:44 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not very hard - it's simply very expensive. | 04:44 |
| ShadSEC | and also, correctly implementing the protocols, which are not fully described | 04:44 |
| ShadSEC | they were very near to it in 2005 using gnu radio | 04:45 |
| ShadSEC | but the project was abandoned | 04:45 |
| SpeedEvil | no it wasn't | 04:45 |
| SpeedEvil | http://openbts.sourceforge.net/ | 04:45 |
| ShadSEC | the broadband signaling was being decoded | 04:46 |
| TiagoTiago | who checks if the modem firmware is signed properlly? | 04:46 |
| SpeedEvil | The modem firmware. | 04:46 |
| TiagoTiago | it checks itself? | 04:46 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 04:46 |
| SpeedEvil | the modem is a whole different CPU | 04:47 |
| ShadSEC | that looks to me as a simulated cell | 04:47 |
| TiagoTiago | then what prevents someone from flashing a new firmware that is hadcoded to say it's signed? | 04:47 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: that's where the 2005 project went | 04:47 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: the firmware on the modem checks the signature of the next one. | 04:48 |
| ShadSEC | what happenned with the branches of gsm interception? :) | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | GSM interception is a required part of getting a GSM cell setup | 04:48 |
| TiagoTiago | oh, i see, the current one gets in the way of the reflashing | 04:48 |
| TiagoTiago | and with the N900 there is no way to reflash the modemfirmware without the current modem firmware havving a say about it? | 04:49 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 04:50 |
| TiagoTiago | what about somthing like a modchip tricking the current firmware into thinking it's seeing a signed firmware and the flash a non'signed firmware that does't block any reflashing? | 04:50 |
| TiagoTiago | and then* | 04:50 |
| SpeedEvil | you can in principle do all sorts of stuff. | 04:51 |
| SpeedEvil | But then you're left with hacking a non-documented interface. | 04:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Which isn't so easy. | 04:51 |
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| ShadSEC | SpeedEvil, so the project was completed | 04:52 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: no - openbts has some features that need finished off and polished. | 04:52 |
| TiagoTiago | checking the hardware it would be possible to start from scratch (itms an arm processor, the memory is that type etc) ? | 04:52 |
| TiagoTiago | erm | 04:52 |
| SpeedEvil | The RF interface is undocumented | 04:52 |
| TiagoTiago | chedcking ... wouldn't it be possible to build it from scratch?* | 04:53 |
| SpeedEvil | what? | 04:53 |
| SpeedEvil | you can't get the parts. And if you can they're not documented. | 04:53 |
| SpeedEvil | You have to use general purpose stuff. | 04:53 |
| TiagoTiago | even the components used aren't documented and hidden under some superglue seal? | 04:54 |
| TiagoTiago | if not, assuming there is enough components of each type necessary to buuld a basic working firmware, i imagine you would be able to start poking(in the emtaforical sense) the components and reverse engineer their API, no? | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | In princple. | 04:56 |
| johnx | TiagoTiago: how many hardware interfaces have you reverse engineered? | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | you can hack the modem - but it's not a very interesting result. | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | It's man-months of effort at best. | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Assuming you start out knowing the GSM/3G protocols | 04:57 |
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| TiagoTiago | none with electricity involved, i've read about how people did stuff with things like videogame consoles, telephone networks etc | 04:58 |
| TiagoTiago | but i've read* | 04:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | Generally the process starts out with reading several thousand page datasheets. | 05:01 |
| TermanaN900 | yello | 05:01 |
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| johnxx | TermanaN900, allo | 05:02 |
| TiagoTiago | not poking things and seeing how they react? | 05:02 |
| TiagoTiago | holla | 05:02 |
| johnxx | TiagoTiago, if there's documentation, you use it | 05:02 |
| johnxx | but you'll still have to go through a ton of random guessing in many cases | 05:03 |
| johnxx | So, I tuned in late to the conversation. What do you want to do again? | 05:04 |
| TiagoTiago | that's usually what happens in reverse engineering, no? | 05:05 |
| CreamyG | did u guys see that hdcp master key? | 05:05 |
| johnxx | CreamyG, yup. | 05:05 |
| ShadSEC | Tiago, it IS possible, it is just a great deal of work | 05:05 |
| CreamyG | i bet someone hacked it from intel, if they made it | 05:06 |
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| CreamyG | i wish it was microsoft. i'd lol more | 05:06 |
| CreamyG | or sony | 05:06 |
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| sevard | So I'm experimenting with video chat on my n810. I have gizmo5 installed and registered on my n810 and Ekiga registered with an antisip account on my laptop. My laptop can call my n810 just fine and pass audio, but when the call is made the n810's gizmo5 call screen shows a camera with a line through it. Anyone have any idea of gizmo5 disabled h264 pass through for some reason? | 05:07 |
| TiagoTiago | i was just commenting, they were talking about freerunner devices talking to eachother wihth a simulated cell i think, and someone asked about doing somthing like that withh the N900 and then another person said it wouldm"t be possible becaause the firmware is closed and the chip chwck for signature before allowing a new reflash | 05:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | ah | 05:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | FR devices - the baseband - calypso - docs - got leaked | 05:07 |
| johnxx | TiagoTiago, and you're going to start a project to hack it? | 05:08 |
| ShadSEC | possible yes, probable no | 05:08 |
| CreamyG | hmm if they are figuring out how to do it in nitdroid it's probably possible | 05:08 |
| TiagoTiago | i wish | 05:08 |
| CreamyG | unless it is locked to a certain protocol | 05:08 |
| johnxx | TiagoTiago, what's stopping you? | 05:08 |
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| TiagoTiago | lack of knowledge, tools and willpower | 05:09 |
| CreamyG | i don't want to do any programming now, i'm lazy too | 05:09 |
| CreamyG | or maybe stoned :D | 05:09 |
| CreamyG | halo sounds like more fun | 05:09 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 05:09 |
| CreamyG | trying to understand someone else's code is hard for me, and learning new languages is not fun either | 05:10 |
| johnxx | TiagoTiago, 1) Everyone lacks knowledge at some point, 2) the tools are probably not that expensive 3) Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought | 05:10 |
| pigeon | hmm, mm9 on the n900 is working with the gps properly, but mm10 is not :\ | 05:11 |
| CreamyG | it's probably worse to reverse engineer an api than do pointer math so i'm not helping :P | 05:11 |
| TiagoTiago | i got the will but not the willpower, kinda the same thing with doing stretches and exercizing dailly | 05:11 |
| ShadSEC | Willpower is probably the most important factor on the equation.... if someones life depended on it, probably he would get it done somehow | 05:11 |
| TiagoTiago | yeah | 05:12 |
| johnxx | if I was getting paid enough, I could probably learn | 05:12 |
| CreamyG | haha. quit your job and code to afford food | 05:12 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 05:12 |
| johnxx | but it would not be a small number ... | 05:12 |
| ShadSEC | perhaps we should threat tiago's life to have it done :P | 05:12 |
| TiagoTiago | "i'll hack for food" Xp | 05:12 |
| johnxx | ShadSEC, seen fight club? :D | 05:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://qkwv.com/weight.gif - My n900 diet. | 05:12 |
| CreamyG | yeah i have visualroute, i'm sending a hitman to your isp to get you | 05:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | (I subsidised purchase of n900 from food budget, with the aid of thinking about cheap tasty meals I could prepare in bulk) | 05:13 |
| ShadSEC | yeah | 05:13 |
| ShadSEC | johnxx | 05:13 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 05:13 |
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| johnxx | SpeedEvil, heh. I'm taking the budget for a nice quad-core setup out of the money I used to spend going out to lunch. haven't found out it's helping me lose weight though | 05:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 05:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lunches out are so damn expensive. | 05:15 |
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| johnxx | Yeah, I thought I was doing a good job of not spending too much on lunch, but making it myself is still hugely cheaper | 05:18 |
| johnxx | plus it's easy since we have a toster oven at work. I don't even have to make my lunch in advance :> | 05:18 |
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| ShadSEC | AGPS position is calculated by the phone, or is it obteined from the network? | 05:21 |
| johnxx | errr, yes? | 05:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: by the phone - pretty much | 05:22 |
| ShadSEC | I mean, it gathers information about signal strenght and position of the cells and calculates the position, or it sends that information to the apgs server and gets a reply back? | 05:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | It has a 'real' GPS too | 05:22 |
| ShadSEC | yep, but I want to know how do it get information about neighboring cells and its lat/lon | 05:23 |
| ShadSEC | but first i need to know, if it does, or not | 05:23 |
| johnxx | the phone is 'assisted' in getting a GPS fix by being given data about which satellites to look for, IIRC | 05:23 |
| johnxx | "ephemeris data" (again, IIRC) | 05:24 |
| ShadSEC | mm, so it sends just the information about one cell so that according to that rough position it is updated with ephemeris data fr that position? is that how it works? | 05:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: you don't. | 05:24 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: The AGPS bits are handled largely inside themodem. It does not export cell location. | 05:25 |
| ShadSEC | oh | 05:25 |
| SpeedEvil | The GPS is connected to the modem CPU | 05:25 |
| ShadSEC | so the cell tower provides that information, but it is just not accesible from so | 05:25 |
| SpeedEvil | basically, yes. | 05:26 |
| ShadSEC | ok, another wall then... thx | 05:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Though there are serveral modes for GPS | 05:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Some ofwhich use cell position, some do not | 05:26 |
| ShadSEC | yes | 05:26 |
| ShadSEC | but i was wondering about if it was possible to get some additional information about te cel | 05:26 |
| ShadSEC | cell ower | 05:26 |
| SpeedEvil | No. There isan openbug requestingthis - but it looks unlikely it's goinganywhere. | 05:29 |
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| ShadSEC | if they could fix it in software, it is in theory accesible..... | 05:34 |
| zeltak | hya guys..sending back the n900 to nokia usa tomrrow due to I/O errors in flash...any tips on how to make sure those idiots actually fix it and not just send it back saying its all well? :) | 05:34 |
| TiagoTiago | get a new one? | 05:35 |
| zeltak | heheh yeah apart from thty :) | 05:35 |
| zeltak | *that | 05:35 |
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| johnxx | zeltak, write to the flash until the rest of it is obviously dead? | 05:36 |
| ShadSEC | put it inthe microwave for a minute before sending it to them :P | 05:36 |
| ShadSEC | btw, do the tech service nowadays identify that damage? | 05:36 |
| TiagoTiago | i mean, have them send you a new one instead of fixing the one you sent them | 05:36 |
| johnxx | TiagoTiago, how do you "have them send [him] a new one"? | 05:37 |
| ShadSEC | a minute is probably too much time in the microwave | 05:37 |
| ShadSEC | perhaps 10 seconds would be enough | 05:37 |
| johnxx | or a stun gun / taser ... | 05:37 |
| zeltak | yeah i also want to know :) but seriously now..i mean i reflashed today before sending it tomorrow and im affraid the tech guy looking at it would just not notice anything wrong | 05:37 |
| TiagoTiago | i guess that is kinda what he was askiing, lol, i didn't think it tthru all that much | 05:37 |
| zeltak | it is working but i get loads of I/O errors in the log and freezes a few times a day | 05:38 |
| ShadSEC | I was VERY serious | 05:38 |
| TiagoTiago | does warranty covers running over it with your car? | 05:38 |
| zeltak | ShadSEC: intresting idea but its not all that frakked in willing to risk the warrenty | 05:38 |
| ShadSEC | physical damage | 05:38 |
| ShadSEC | but how would they notice the microwave thing? | 05:38 |
| TiagoTiago | all the burnmarks? | 05:39 |
| ShadSEC | a few seconds? | 05:39 |
| DangerMaus | so you were hit by lightning | 05:39 |
| TiagoTiago | have you seen what happens to a cd? | 05:39 |
| johnxx | ShadSEC, depends on if the LCD suffered damage | 05:39 |
| ShadSEC | yes, but its different | 05:39 |
| johnxx | ... or if someone from Nokia was hanging out on this channel ... | 05:39 |
| zeltak | i like the creative ideas but seriously has any one have any experience with nokia usa tech lab? | 05:39 |
| TiagoTiago | how different? a bunch of plastic and coonducti/e metal bunched up together | 05:40 |
| ShadSEC | johnx, yes, thats why a minute should be too much... but a few secnds should affect the lcd... although I AM NOT SURE. | 05:40 |
| ShadSEC | johnx, yeah, lets then reject all phones just in case the used the old microwave trick :P | 05:40 |
| johnxx | zeltak, afraid not. I guess all you can do is clearly explain the situation. maybe include a note about how to make it freeze in the box? | 05:41 |
| zeltak | yup johnxx did that.. | 05:41 |
| DangerMaus | haha some idiot in a carwash opens door to get something off windsheild and looses door | 05:41 |
| ShadSEC | yep, and if they fail, next time remember... microwave :P | 05:41 |
| zeltak | i hope the idiot that opens it sees it lol | 05:41 |
| johnxx | zeltak, is it the emmc or the rootfs/initfs flash? | 05:41 |
| zeltak | ShadSEC: ill keep that in mind ;-) | 05:41 |
| zeltak | emmc | 05:41 |
| TiagoTiago | what about water damage? | 05:41 |
| DangerMaus | errr... there is prob a sticker for that | 05:42 |
| johnxx | zeltak, easy then. "if you fill the card with movies the device will crash. please make it not do that. KTHX." Keep the repro instructions simple ;) | 05:42 |
| ShadSEC | what about you tell them you lost it, maybe they will send you a new one? uhhh, maybe not, but its not worse than watering it :P | 05:42 |
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| TiagoTiago | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chOfSxh9Yq4 <f why itms a bad idea to put a clellphone in the microwave | 05:43 |
| zeltak | heheh johnxx i went along that line ..even attached a log output..hope the tech guy is not deadbrain | 05:43 |
| ShadSEC | lol | 05:44 |
| johnxx | zeltak, I mean, as long as you can repro it by copying files from a windows machine to the emmc, I'd *hope* that they'd realize the problem. | 05:45 |
| zeltak | lets hope so...k thx for the tips and microwave ideads guys.. nighty night | 05:45 |
| TiagoTiago | good luck | 05:45 |
| johnxx | zeltak, best of luck. tell us how it turns out | 05:46 |
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| zeltak | thx..sure will keep u posted | 05:46 |
| ShadSEC | good luck zeltak,and if you ever do the microwave thing, stop it after the first flash! ;) | 05:48 |
| TiagoTiago | now for real http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_z1QcytwsA | 05:49 |
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| ShadSEC | yeah, that one is real | 05:51 |
| ShadSEC | the burns happen much more later than the damage to flash/ etc... | 05:51 |
| ShadSEC | first flash, stop it, and better to use te microwave at lw power | 05:51 |
| ShadSEC | I will try with an old usb stick and see | 05:52 |
| TermanaN900 | Ok, be truthful. Who is it on /g/ with an N8x0 with 54 days of uptime? :P | 05:53 |
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| TiagoTiago | would be fun to have a call going on, or perhaps some live videofrom inside | 05:56 |
| ShadSEC | the call would be ended at very moment you press the power on button on the microave | 05:57 |
| ShadSEC | in fact, the moment you put it inside | 05:58 |
| ShadSEC | if it is isolated for 2400mhz it is for anything below | 05:58 |
| TiagoTiago | microwave ovens shield cellphone frequencies? | 05:58 |
| ShadSEC | it uses 2400 | 05:58 |
| ShadSEC | and it shields it very well | 05:58 |
| TiagoTiago | i see | 05:59 |
| ShadSEC | so it shields any frequencies below too | 05:59 |
| ShadSEC | it also probably shields more much than 2400 | 05:59 |
| ShadSEC | YOu can do that test | 05:59 |
| ShadSEC | call your cellphone and put it inside | 05:59 |
| ShadSEC | i would be very surprised if it has signal | 06:00 |
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| ShadSEC | although now that I think 900mhz has some exceptional penetration ability | 06:02 |
| luke-jr | 900mhz isn't used by cell phones here | 06:03 |
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| luke-jr | it's deregulated/free-for-all | 06:03 |
| luke-jr | :p | 06:03 |
| ShadSEC | you guys are lucky | 06:03 |
| ShadSEC | thats the best frequency | 06:03 |
| luke-jr | heh | 06:03 |
| luke-jr | except we're only allowed like 5 mile radius of xmit power | 06:03 |
| luke-jr | ☹ | 06:03 |
| ShadSEC | I have some ricochet modems... that's range and penetration | 06:03 |
| ShadSEC | they use 900mhz | 06:03 |
| pigeon | ah, problem solved, upgrade to the newer MM10. | 06:04 |
| ShadSEC | also they use 1WATT, ferquency hopping, | 06:04 |
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| DangerMaus_ | crap heard a pop and my eeepc power brick is dead not even a blinking light | 06:09 |
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| TiagoTiago | did you microwave it? | 06:10 |
| DangerMaus_ | nope | 06:10 |
| DangerMaus_ | plugged it ti the unit | 06:10 |
| TiagoTiago | was it set to 110v and plugged in a 220v wallsocket? | 06:11 |
| DangerMaus_ | i geuss this is happining on a mass scale them dieing | 06:11 |
| DangerMaus_ | it auto chooses but its all 110 here | 06:12 |
| TiagoTiago | any power oscilations or spikes latelly? | 06:13 |
| TiagoTiago | also, was it plugged togther with a bunch of other things in the same wallsocket? | 06:14 |
| DangerMaus_ | im going back to bed my 770 no enough hdd to update bad njght | 06:14 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 06:14 |
| DangerMaus_ | nothing to cause it the light came on plugged it to eee and pop | 06:15 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 06:15 |
| TiagoTiago | perhaps it was a bug, in the original sense | 06:15 |
| DangerMaus_ | goet ahold of asus in morn rma it | 06:15 |
| TiagoTiago | good luck | 06:15 |
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| DangerMaus_ | ive read alot of rma.s of the brick on google | 06:16 |
| TiagoTiago | oh | 06:16 |
| DangerMaus_ | geuss im getting an igo unervsrsal brick | 06:17 |
| DangerMaus_ | till asus can get to it | 06:17 |
| DangerMaus_ | tiago any ideas on a bt kb not working anymore with the n900? | 06:19 |
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| TiagoTiago | i'm having bt issues with my N900 too, not the same thing nut also with bt, i dunno how to solve | 06:20 |
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| DangerMaus_ | what you having issues with everythimg else bt works here | 06:21 |
| TiagoTiago | OVI suite isn't seeing the N900 (but sees my N73), and sometmes, specially when my bt headset is connected, it won't find many devices it finds when the headset isn't connected | 06:22 |
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| DangerMaus_ | havent played with a headset yet... | 06:24 |
| TiagoTiago | disconect any bt device from it and try again going straight to th e keyboard | 06:25 |
| DangerMaus_ | but i got it hooked to eee as modem bt and to gps reciever at the same time wi no issue | 06:25 |
| TiagoTiago | btw, doesn't the N900 nned you to install somthing to work with HID devices? | 06:25 |
| DangerMaus_ | i thought it was all bt outta the box unless something changedd with the update | 06:26 |
| DangerMaus_ | it used to work | 06:26 |
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| TiagoTiago | dunno then | 06:27 |
| DangerMaus_ | and i dont think this one is hid but could be a module/ kernel thing | 06:28 |
| DangerMaus_ | if it is | 06:29 |
| DangerMaus_ | jrite now using the bt kb on the 770 bt through the 900 | 06:31 |
| DangerMaus_ | the eee is dead | 06:32 |
| DangerMaus_ | this is lkilling me | 06:32 |
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| * pupnik watches | 06:34 | |
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| johnxx | DangerMaus_, the PS killed the eee itself? | 06:44 |
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| ShadSEC | signal strenght drops from quality 100 and rssi -81 outside the microwave to quality 60 rssi -92 inside :) | 06:56 |
| ShadSEC | and wifi is completely killed | 06:57 |
| ShadSEC | just another absurd test | 06:57 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 06:57 |
| johnxx | "wifi is completely killed" ha! you better hope so | 06:57 |
| johnxx | otherwise your microwave would cook you while you stood there | 06:58 |
| ShadSEC | I was suppossed to check the values from remote ssh | 06:58 |
| ShadSEC | not surprisingly that wasnt possible :P | 06:58 |
| TiagoTiago | bluetooth aslo goes away, no? | 06:59 |
| ShadSEC | of course | 06:59 |
| johnxx | again "it better" :) | 06:59 |
| ShadSEC | but see how gsm is not COMPLETELY killed | 06:59 |
| johnxx | no surprise | 06:59 |
| ShadSEC | probably not usable for phone call though | 07:00 |
| TiagoTiago | what band are you using? | 07:00 |
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| ShadSEC | but maybe an sms might come trough | 07:00 |
| TiagoTiago | try calling with the door shut and see if it rings? | 07:00 |
| ShadSEC | 2g in this test | 07:00 |
| johnxx | well, he's not using 2.4GHz :) | 07:00 |
| TiagoTiago | heh | 07:00 |
| ShadSEC | i dont have another phone heer | 07:00 |
| TiagoTiago | 2g uses lots of bands across the world | 07:00 |
| ShadSEC | why dont you try? :) | 07:00 |
| ShadSEC | probably 1.900 i dnt know | 07:01 |
| TiagoTiago | i don't think i can make an international call without paying, dunno | 07:01 |
| ShadSEC | our prividers uses several different ranges of frequency | 07:01 |
| ShadSEC | i mean you put your phone in your microwave and call it with another phone you might have there | 07:01 |
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| TiagoTiago | over here each carrier uses one or two bands alone | 07:02 |
| TiagoTiago | ah | 07:02 |
| TiagoTiago | people are sleeping right now, i!l try to remember running this test tomorrow | 07:02 |
| luke-jr | 2G and 3G require each provider to have independent bands, correct? | 07:02 |
| luke-jr | is that a 4G limitation too? | 07:03 |
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| TiagoTiago | really? | 07:03 |
| ShadSEC | i donno | 07:03 |
| johnxx | luke-jr, define "independent bands" | 07:03 |
| TiagoTiago | i thought they could all work togther if bureucracy wasn't in the way | 07:03 |
| luke-jr | johnxx: eg, ProviderA and ProviderB can't both have towers using the same 900 MHz band in teh same area? | 07:03 |
| TiagoTiago | the network might need some buffing up to handl the traffic squeezed in a single band though | 07:04 |
| TiagoTiago | but i' no expert | 07:04 |
| johnxx | luke-jr, huh. I hadn't thought of that, but uhm, I can't see how that would work in the EU, where there are 2 2G bands and n providers where n>2 | 07:04 |
| luke-jr | hmm | 07:06 |
| luke-jr | they all have independent towers? | 07:06 |
| luke-jr | or maybe they all share? | 07:06 |
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| ShadSEC | this page is very interesting : https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?CSD%20services&id=1106&type=g | 07:06 |
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| johnxx | luke-jr, sooo, I'm not saying you're wrong, but can you cite your source? | 07:07 |
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| ShadSEC | they share | 07:07 |
| ShadSEC | share the bands, and even the towers | 07:07 |
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| ShadSEC | thus i donno what band I a connected to right now | 07:07 |
| TiagoTiago | somthing annoying over here is there is one carrier that stuck with an old techlogy for sometime while thwe others moved to GSM, then when that carrier finally moved to GSM the bansds commonly used by GSM had all been bought already, so gsm devices had to be made specfificly for their band, and with that they managed to have devices they sell be locked to ythe carrier while technicly having no lock in place | 07:08 |
| DangerMaus_ | hehe | 07:09 |
| ShadSEC | com.nokia.phone.SIM <- this one in particular soudns VERY interesting | 07:09 |
| johnxx | TiagoTiago, we have 4 major carriers here, and essentially they're all incompatible with each other in terms of phones (2 can share 2G phones) | 07:09 |
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| TiagoTiago | this whole mess is really annying, what's the point of being abl e to slip your sim in another device, or change the sim of your device, if each carrier is imcompatible with the other? | 07:12 |
| TiagoTiago | it only works as intended if you got a multiband device with the right bands | 07:14 |
| johnxx | the point is that carriers are motivated by keeping customers, so it's in their best interest to make moving to another carrier difficult | 07:15 |
| johnxx | it's the free market at work :D | 07:15 |
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| TiagoTiago | that's actually them twisting the market to make it less free | 07:16 |
| johnxx | and *that* depends on who you ask :) | 07:16 |
| TiagoTiago | if they are all bad just the same and work to keep that as the statusquo, the consumer gets screwed | 07:17 |
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| * DangerMaus_ shoots palm hid bt kb... what got borked with that last os uoppdate? | 07:18 | |
| GAN900 | johnxx, no, that's a heavily regulated market at work. ;) | 07:18 |
| TiagoTiago | IMO there are many situations where if comapnies stopped being selfish assholes they would attract lots more customers, so much that they would profit even more than now even if profit margins got reduced | 07:19 |
| GAN900 | There's very little to do with the free market about the telecommunications industry. | 07:19 |
| TiagoTiago | DangerMaus_, what update? | 07:19 |
| johnxx | GAN900, carrier lock-in is a result of regulation? | 07:19 |
| GAN900 | johnxx, the make-up of the telecommunications industry is partially a product of government interference in the market. | 07:20 |
| DangerMaus_ | long time ago | 07:20 |
| GAN900 | Look at the regulations and taxes involved. | 07:20 |
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| GAN900 | Can anybody AFFORD to compete with companies like AT&T and Verizon with that overhead? | 07:21 |
| DangerMaus_ | when i orrigionaly got the 900 last thanksgiving the bt kb worked after the update im thinking it didnt | 07:21 |
| johnxx | GAN900, not after the US lets them merge into behemoths and doesn't make any provisions for interoperability | 07:21 |
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| GAN900 | It's the worst of both worlds, too regulated to allow real competition, not regulated enough to keep them in line. | 07:22 |
| johnxx | I'll agree to that | 07:22 |
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| GAN900 | johnxx, this is not a valid argument against free market capitalism, however. :) | 07:22 |
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| asj | GAN900: a duopolly is an argument that it's not a free market nor capitalist | 07:23 |
| johnxx | GAN900, we need a bit of regulation to make sure that we have enough players in the game to get any benefit though | 07:24 |
| GAN900 | johnxx, given the lack of real data on true free markets, I don't know that you can assert that. | 07:25 |
| GAN900 | Natural monopolies are one of the weird areas in free market systems, though. | 07:25 |
| GAN900 | The problem is that finding a good balance on regulations is basically impossible. | 07:25 |
| johnxx | which is why we should give up and just let the companies run things! yay! | 07:26 |
| GAN900 | Since mostly it results in the worst of both. | 07:26 |
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| asj | bullshit | 07:26 |
| TiagoTiago | rebooted :( | 07:26 |
| GAN900 | johnxx, right, that's not a statement likely to lead to productive discussion. | 07:27 |
| GAN900 | So goodnight. | 07:27 |
| johnxx | GAN900, then we need to experiment more. lots of impossible things have been become commonplace to keep experimenting | 07:27 |
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| johnxx | GAN900, sorry. didn't mean to troll. Just a bit of sarcasm meant to draw out a counter-proposal | 07:28 |
| TiagoTiago | brb | 07:29 |
| TiagoTiago | back | 07:32 |
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| luke-jr | why worry about a free market? | 07:35 |
| luke-jr | what does that accomplish? | 07:36 |
| TiagoTiago | free market can go good, but it also can kinda selfdestruct | 07:37 |
| TiagoTiago | usually it goes bad when people are selfish assholes, stubborn or simply stupid | 07:38 |
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| TiagoTiago | there is still lots to be fixed in mankind | 07:39 |
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| luke-jr | people are naturally selfish, stubborn, and stupid | 07:40 |
| luke-jr | sounds like a broken-by-design system | 07:40 |
| TiagoTiago | heh | 07:40 |
| TiagoTiago | i dunno if itms somthing with the culture or genes or a mix, but indeed humans often are like that | 07:42 |
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| TiagoTiago | like with democracy, it would work with ideal people, but with real people there is lots that can go wrong, and yet ther isn't anything better we can choose | 07:43 |
| luke-jr | it's the fallen nature of man after eating the stupid fig | 07:44 |
| luke-jr | with ideal people, anarchy would work. or socialism. or anything really. | 07:45 |
| luke-jr | and only a fool would choose democracy. with man's nature, democracy is the *worst* possible system | 07:45 |
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| luke-jr | it quickly becomes tyranny | 07:45 |
| luke-jr | monarchy is the best choice IMO | 07:46 |
| TiagoTiago | IMO it's more dangerous to give power to a random few than to the masses | 07:46 |
| luke-jr | masses have a 100% certainty to be imperfect. | 07:47 |
| luke-jr | a single leader has the best probability to lead well | 07:47 |
| TiagoTiago | there are way more people that if given absolute power would fuck things royally than those that would do a reasonable job, masses are stupid, but usually at their worst they are still above than what things could be if only one or a little few random people were n power | 07:48 |
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| TiagoTiago | democracy kinda balances the power of the masses with the power of a few, at least in theory; it lets a fewbe in poewer but at the same time has the masses as abackup ifn case those in power mess up | 07:50 |
| luke-jr | that's why you make sure the Monarch is qualified :P | 07:51 |
| TiagoTiago | a meritocratic monarchy? | 07:51 |
| luke-jr | sure | 07:51 |
| luke-jr | and the Monarch can judge his own successor, as Monarch :p | 07:52 |
| luke-jr | only goes wrong if the Monarch is tricked, or becomes corrupt | 07:52 |
| luke-jr | next step is to divide the nations into tiny pieces, and give them each autonomy | 07:52 |
| TiagoTiago | it would still be good to have a way to cut the process in case the choice for monarch was mistaken | 07:52 |
| luke-jr | then when one screws up, it's not the end of the world :p | 07:52 |
| luke-jr | if a monarch becomes corrupt, the neighboring monarchies declare war | 07:53 |
| luke-jr | ☺ | 07:53 |
| TiagoTiago | and how is that better than the people impeaching the monarch? | 07:53 |
| luke-jr | that's rebellion | 07:54 |
| luke-jr | which is immoral | 07:54 |
| TiagoTiago | not if itms somthing institutionalized etc | 07:54 |
| luke-jr | people have no right to judge their ruler | 07:54 |
| luke-jr | then you effectively have a slow democracy | 07:54 |
| TiagoTiago | absolute power corrupts absolutly | 07:54 |
| luke-jr | because the ruler needs to appease the masses | 07:54 |
| luke-jr | rebellion isn't the only limit to power | 07:55 |
| luke-jr | disobedience to evil commands is legitimate | 07:55 |
| luke-jr | and all nations are of course subject to the Church's higher authority | 07:55 |
| pigeon | interesting, the contacts app on the n900 crashes everytime whenever i press a key when choosing the region/country. | 07:55 |
| TiagoTiago | but who is to judge what is and what isn't an evil command? | 07:56 |
| TiagoTiago | church?! | 07:56 |
| pigeon | or in fact, it crashes if i select any country from the list. | 07:56 |
| TiagoTiago | they also are severelly messed up | 07:56 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: the Church teaches morality, of course, and the local bishops are a good place to apply it | 07:56 |
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| luke-jr | the Church is infallible. | 07:56 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: welcome to politics 101 | 07:56 |
| slonopotamus | aye | 07:57 |
| TiagoTiago | only an ideal church, that, like ideal people, is most improbable | 07:57 |
| TiagoTiago | ; that, like ideal people* | 07:57 |
| slonopotamus | trying to decide if it worse than physics discussion on #meego :) | 07:57 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 07:57 |
| luke-jr | but the ideal Church exists, so why not use it? :P | 07:57 |
| TiagoTiago | it does not, at least as far as i know | 07:58 |
| luke-jr | oh well, perhaps it's time to learn. but this isn't the place to get into that. | 07:58 |
| TiagoTiago | the church can only be as close to ideal as the people running it | 07:58 |
| luke-jr | there's always ##Catholic if you're interested | 07:58 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 07:58 |
| luke-jr | which is why the Church can only be ideal when that person at the top is Divine | 07:59 |
| TiagoTiago | books that have been writtwn, rewritten and translated by less than ideal people cannot represent the original ideal message | 07:59 |
| luke-jr | who said anything about books? | 08:00 |
| TiagoTiago | even worese fopr word of mouth traditions | 08:00 |
| luke-jr | again, you're assuming a fallible Church | 08:00 |
| TiagoTiago | an infallible church would only be possible with infallible people | 08:02 |
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| slonopotamus | this channel is uncomprehensible (i hope i spelled it correctly) without morning cup of coffee | 08:02 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: the Church has an infallible Head, and infallible guidance | 08:03 |
| luke-jr | it cannot teach error in faith or morals | 08:03 |
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| TiagoTiago | if that god really existed and really had our wellbeing in mind, it would have made many butterfly flap their wings ain the other side of the world and make a chain reaction of good things hapepen without interfeering with anyone's freewill | 08:04 |
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| luke-jr | no freewill interference required ☺ | 08:05 |
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| TiagoTiago | a church can't work like Stephen Hawking, if the body is diseased it won't matter what the head up top is thinking | 08:05 |
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| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: even if you can't understand how, it does work. :P | 08:06 |
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| TiagoTiago | i can see it doesn't, the shit against gays, against women, against good healthy science, the deviled priest raping and just being swept to under the rug etc | 08:07 |
| TiagoTiago | sure at some points in hystory it was worse, but today itms still far from ideal | 08:08 |
| luke-jr | your disagreements with truth hold no grounds, nor does the slander of the mass media when put to scruteny | 08:08 |
| TiagoTiago | what truth? all there is is hearsay, some say someone they knew had a cousin that heard god say somthing | 08:09 |
| luke-jr | certainly not going to elaborate on that in here | 08:09 |
| TiagoTiago | i'm far more inclined into believing in gray aliens and extradimensional dragons reincarnated than in shit from the vatican and wherver the other "mainstream" religions go to pull stuff out of their ass | 08:11 |
| luke-jr | if you honestly want to discuss it, there's ##Catholic or PM | 08:11 |
| luke-jr | the Church doesn't quite qualify as "mainstream" anymore, but whatever | 08:11 |
| luke-jr | if you want DCC Chat, you'll need to configure your IRC client to send a WAN IP | 08:13 |
| TiagoTiago | hm | 08:13 |
| luke-jr | (if I try to initiate it, I'll probably send an IPv6 address…) | 08:14 |
| TiagoTiago | the other alternative is to go to that channel and have @bunch of people be agaiinst my point of view? | 08:14 |
| luke-jr | it's idle at the moment, but the purpose would be to explain why your objections are wrong. if someone else wakes up, that can hardly hurt. :p | 08:15 |
| TiagoTiago | a mob of people blinded by faith wouldn't be a pleasent chat partner | 08:16 |
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| luke-jr | faith isn't blinding. | 08:16 |
| luke-jr | there's always normal IRC PM too | 08:17 |
| luke-jr | shrug | 08:17 |
| TiagoTiago | not to everyone | 08:17 |
| TiagoTiago | how do i do that with xchat? | 08:17 |
| luke-jr | not sure, it might be labelled 'Query' | 08:18 |
| ShadSEC | is it possible to install a package using commandline from a non enabled repository without hacing to enable? | 08:18 |
| ShadSEC | ie: apt-get install screen from the tools repository without having it setup | 08:19 |
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| ShadSEC | is wget installed in default PR1.2? | 08:23 |
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| pigeon | does picking a region/country for an address in the contacts on the n900 work for anyone? | 08:28 |
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| ShadSEC | Any idea why it says that the tools repository is meant to be used only from the SDK environment? What harm could screen package do? | 08:48 |
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| merlin1991 | I don't know how good screen will run, but I think the main problems is, that the tool repo isn't optified, so you could brick you device by filling up rootfs | 08:53 |
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| ShadSEC | i see | 08:59 |
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| pigeon | hmm, the n900 seems to take much longer to get gps signal and fixes if there's no sim in it... | 09:02 |
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| pigeon | or if someone tells me it's a red herring... | 09:07 |
| Stskeeps | pigeon: AGPS is pretty much needed. it just takes very long time without | 09:07 |
| pigeon | is AGPS == "network positioning" in the settings? | 09:08 |
| CreamyG | yeah when my gps worked i am guessing WIND finally unblocked the damn port | 09:08 |
| merlin1991 | or doesn't work at all, like mine does | 09:08 |
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| Corsac | Stskeeps: especially since it doesn't seem to remember previous position/ephemeris, so it restarts from where it can, usually the middle of the country you're in if cell is on | 09:15 |
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| Stskeeps | Corsac: :nod: | 09:15 |
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| rmrfchik | hehe, no MeeGo on Nokia World. | 09:29 |
| rmrfchik | only rotting symbian | 09:29 |
| johnx | rmrfchik, yeah. It would really steal the thunder of the Meego conference | 09:29 |
| johnx | rmrfchik, but you heard the good news about the Palm designer guy getting picked up for Meego UX, right? | 09:30 |
| rmrfchik | nope | 09:31 |
| rmrfchik | I lost hope in Nokia, so don't track meego | 09:31 |
| TiagoTiago | what about that tablet running meego i saw on the news at some conference? | 09:31 |
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| rmrfchik | what palm guy? from the original palm? | 09:31 |
| rmrfchik | TiagoTiago: hmm, 9:33AM "We will not make any MeeGo product launches today. More on that before the year is out. | 09:32 |
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| johnx | http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/14/nokia-hires-peter-skillman-former-palm-design-vp-as-meego-user/ | 09:34 |
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| TiagoTiago | I think it wasn't a Nokia | 09:34 |
| johnx | actually, engadget has the important part of the story in the link itself. no real need to click. heh | 09:34 |
| johnx | TiagoTiago, if it's a tablet, it's likely intel related | 09:35 |
| johnx | rmrfchik, honestly, this is one case where intel being involved in a project gives me some amount of home | 09:35 |
| johnx | s/home/hope/ | 09:35 |
| infobot | johnx meant: rmrfchik, honestly, this is one case where intel being involved in a project gives me some amount of hope | 09:35 |
| TiagoTiago | I think i saw it on either CNN or BBC, it was in a place with lots of 3d TVs | 09:35 |
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| rmrfchik | johnx: yes, I eager to see not nokia's device. | 09:36 |
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| TiagoTiago | i guess i'll be going, cya | 09:56 |
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| rmrfchik | johnx: according to profile on LinkedIn, Peter Skillman was in Handspring (when devices uses original Palm interface), and was in Palm since Jan 2007, when no any advance in GUi was evolved. | 10:05 |
| rmrfchik | May be he is a good guy, but seems like he has no relation with palm success in GUI/PIM. | 10:06 |
| johnx | rmrfchik: wasn't the palm pre UI in full swing around 2007? | 10:06 |
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| johnx | (unrelated: handspring rawked!) | 10:07 |
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| rmrfchik | johnx: ahh.. new palm devices has no any relation with original palm spirit. | 10:07 |
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| johnx | if meego ended up looking a lot like the palm pre UI, that would be a very, very good thing | 10:08 |
| rmrfchik | I read about how Palm UI was born. The guy behind it was creating USER interface. Current ui designers are crearing GRAPHIC interface | 10:08 |
| rmrfchik | feel the difference | 10:08 |
| johnx | also, in case you forgot, handspring basically invented the smart phone ;P | 10:08 |
| johnx | feel the difference? it feels a lot like not using a stylus :P | 10:09 |
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| rmrfchik | and my wife is crying about it -- how she will draw her designs now? | 10:09 |
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| mece | johnx, as long as the hardware doesn't look like the pre. | 10:10 |
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| rmrfchik | and, despite stylis, original palm's gui and concept was very, very friendly. can't say this about any modern gui | 10:10 |
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| johnx | there have been big leaps forward since the PalmOS days (and a ton of missteps) | 10:10 |
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| johnx | throwing out all the new stuff would be a huge mistake, IMHO | 10:11 |
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| rmrfchik | one huge misstep I see -- no any modern device with gigafuckingherz can pop me up contacts/calendar/notes instantly | 10:11 |
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| johnx | your palm never crashed on you and ate all your contacts, huh? | 10:12 |
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| johnx | also related: you didn't develop for palm, did you? | 10:12 |
| rmrfchik | i did | 10:13 |
| johnx | how was that? | 10:13 |
| rmrfchik | and was happy not to deal with files. | 10:13 |
| rmrfchik | it was nice | 10:13 |
| johnx | huh. RST38h painted a very different picture of it, IIRC | 10:14 |
| rmrfchik | johnx: palm crashed, it happened, but thanks to god it is VERY VERY hard to lost your data. | 10:15 |
| rmrfchik | very smart backup system | 10:15 |
| johnx | as long as you synced all the time ... | 10:15 |
| johnx | I'm happy with my phone being a stand-alone device, that I can use away from a computer for extended periods | 10:16 |
| rmrfchik | I managed to have backup on SD card. In fact, two of backups -- weekly and daily | 10:16 |
| * johnx had a handspring without an SD slot | 10:16 | |
| johnx | I was actually saving up for the MP3 module when it died | 10:16 |
| rmrfchik | so, any device without syncing can lose your data | 10:17 |
| johnx | I bought a Zaurus and never looked back | 10:17 |
| rmrfchik | isn't'? | 10:17 |
| johnx | devices that *keep your data in RAM* have a much better chance | 10:17 |
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| rmrfchik | I used Zaurus (and even hacked a little) for a year. | 10:17 |
| johnx | of losing it entirely | 10:17 |
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| johnx | look, I'm not arguing that the palm didn't have some very desirable traits | 10:18 |
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| johnx | in a lot of ways, I'd like to see us taking the UI as an example of "as simple as possible, but no simpler" | 10:18 |
| rmrfchik | the point is not only in simple UI. it is about speed, handy, intuitness. | 10:20 |
| rmrfchik | (can't speel last word) | 10:20 |
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| johnx | those are definitely good traits, but if the device doesn't do what you want, they're useless | 10:21 |
| rmrfchik | yes, and was taking notes, uses ToDos and other PIM work on palm. And don't do this on any later device I had: acer n310 (wince), zaurus, n810, n900. | 10:22 |
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| rmrfchik | all those devices can only be used as bookreader, simple game console. | 10:23 |
| johnx | I keep a ton of notes on the N900 in tomboy | 10:23 |
| flux | n900+emacs+org-mode ftw, no?-) | 10:23 |
| johnx | I sync them back and forth, wirelessly to my desktops | 10:23 |
| flux | I'm waiting for someone to compile Darcs for n900 to do that syncing part.. | 10:24 |
| rmrfchik | flux: i'm vim guy ;) | 10:24 |
| flux | rmrfchik, you know, some people have converted to emacs just to use org-mode ;-) | 10:24 |
| rmrfchik | johnx: how tomboy get synced? | 10:24 |
| johnx | and yes, sometimes I miss the the Palm Notes UI, but I don't miss the HWR | 10:24 |
| * johnx looks at his sync config | 10:25 | |
| johnx | I think I sync it to ubuntu one | 10:25 |
| johnx | yeah | 10:25 |
| johnx | I sync the PIM stuff to my Mac over bluetooth. I really wish it could sync to CalDAV/CardDAV though | 10:26 |
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| rmrfchik | johnx: I have idiosyncrasy to .net and mono. tomboy is .net, isn't? | 10:29 |
| johnx | connboy on the N900 is vala | 10:30 |
| johnx | or is it conboy? | 10:30 |
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| johnx | but yeah, tomboy on the desktop is .net | 10:30 |
| johnx | and it's your loss. but it's no less free than PalmOS was ... | 10:30 |
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| rmrfchik | it's not about free, it's about hygiene | 10:32 |
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| johnx | avoiding patents? | 10:33 |
| rmrfchik | avoiding MS trap | 10:33 |
| johnx | I don't think either of us will manage to convince the other, so let's agree to disagree | 10:33 |
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| rmrfchik | heard last news from russia -- MS advoicates was used to sue dissent. | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | did you see the followup? | 10:34 |
| Stskeeps | microsoft giving NGOs free licenses | 10:34 |
| rmrfchik | I saw | 10:34 |
| Stskeeps | and it wasn't MS advocates | 10:34 |
| rmrfchik | I read, MS people WERE on place when it all happened | 10:34 |
| rmrfchik | the saw what happens, the saw all license was fine and didn't do anything | 10:35 |
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| lolloo | site? | 10:35 |
| lolloo | aev> yeah I remember in the mid 90s there was so much hope that Russia and the U.S. would be friends | 10:36 |
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| lolloo | ev> and that the cold war was over | 10:36 |
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| lolloo | boy that was short lived | 10:37 |
| lolloo | hello? | 10:37 |
| rmrfchik | ? | 10:37 |
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| flux | has someone used n900 usb port for communicating with an external device via non-usb-means? possibly flipping power lines or something? | 10:47 |
| flux | I'm wondering what kind of speeds would such approach give.. | 10:48 |
| flux | (as in a few bps or possibly even a few kbps :-)) | 10:48 |
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| jacekowski | few bps at most | 10:50 |
| jacekowski | 10bps maybe | 10:50 |
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| mece | Khertan, ping | 10:54 |
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| flux | jacekowski, oh well. possibly could be useful for some launcher, if even that :) | 10:57 |
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| crashanddie | hehehe | 11:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | moaning | 11:25 |
| crashanddie | I just messed with some people by having their voicemail say you-have.wav + digit_echo(random()) + new-message-plural.wav | 11:25 |
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| * crashanddie takes off evil hat. | 11:25 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: aaw, it was a nice hat | 11:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actualy I see this often, when people move their flat here and get new landline, with t-mo voicebox - though they have their own TAM :-P | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | t-mo voicebox has annoying habit to cal every hour : "you have 5 new messages" - TAM: "... thank you for calling" | 11:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | error description: "My TAM is weird, it talks to itself, leaving messages about messages" X-P | 11:32 |
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| crashanddie | http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1787448&cid=33584186 | 11:37 |
| johnx | crashanddie: ugh. phone systems. ugh. | 11:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eeerm | 11:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what a BS | 11:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ""...for enabling the camera function of the screens 4th pixels you snap on a hood with a lens on top"" | 11:46 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer: having fun with google translate? | 11:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not really, just trying to figure how senors in a 'LCD' type screen can make for a camera function | 11:48 |
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| Jaffa | Mo9ring, all | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ...or has Polaroid developed a new photofilm that just needs to be held to the scene to pick up? without any camera around it? | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | and M$ has copied this to their thin-as-shit-o-glass 'surface' device | 11:50 |
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| johnx | hmm, for the full sized surface I think I remember something about IR sensors behind the screen or something to that effect? | 11:52 |
| crashanddie | they had IR projectors all over the place | 11:53 |
| crashanddie | and 4 (at least) cameras to locate the objects | 11:53 |
| crashanddie | the screen was coated with an IR absorbant | 11:53 |
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| crashanddie | so that the cameras could detect the edges of the objects, and submit that edge-detection to the display | 11:54 |
| lcuk2 | jaffa arent you at Nokia World? | 11:54 |
| johnx | for some reason I thought I remembered them reading 'game cards' or something with patterns on them | 11:54 |
| johnx | might have been a different tabletop demo thing than surface though ... | 11:55 |
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| lcuk2 | DocScrutinizer, quad pels on the lcd | 11:56 |
| Jaffa | lcuk2: Yupl Had breakfast with Ari. Seen Ronan Mac Laverty, thp and Ville Vainio's supposed to be around | 11:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | quad pels? | 11:57 |
| lcuk2 | cool jaffa, did you find yourself an n8 yet | 11:58 |
| lcuk2 | DocScrutinizer, RGB and input | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: see, you can't use IR sensors spread over any area for anything except contact scanning, as you can't take a picture of a scene by waving with the polaroid film | 11:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk2: ^^^ to you as well | 11:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | to call such thing 'camera' is mere BS | 11:59 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer: yeah. I get the concept. Hence why I qualified what I was saying. I don't know *how* they do it *shrugs* | 11:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | for taking a picture you'll need a lens or aperture, or lasers and holography | 12:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | none of all that is applicable to sensors in a display of whatever technology | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's as silly as telling "your TV takes snapshots of you, via the screen, and sends them back to the TV-station" | 12:03 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer: I used to be terrified that it did when I was little | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, and this M$ announcement is for little boys | 12:04 |
| johnx | someone told me about the concept of "TV ratings" but didn't bother to tell me how the TV stations knew | 12:04 |
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| crashanddie | anyone remember those boxes that you held up against your TV monitor, in a specific area? | 12:05 |
| crashanddie | And it would allow you to "play"? The box had like a couple of input buttons | 12:06 |
| Jaffa | lcuk2: Going to look for one later. Qt Mobility, Qt Creator and Symbian, MeeGo and Maemo Hermes, I'm tginking. | 12:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | barcode type "morse" via TV? old boring nonsense | 12:07 |
| Jaffa | N8 is *nice* harddware | 12:07 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: yeah, something like that | 12:07 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer: so yeah, the cameras in surface appear to actually be cameras | 12:07 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: and not even armv7 afaik.. | 12:07 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: are you saying it's nice because Pamela Anderson (the old cow) has decided to star in a movie filmed by it? | 12:08 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Really? It's fast. | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: broadcom gfx chip is bloody capable | 12:08 |
| lcuk2 | jaffa dont fall into that trap | 12:08 |
| lcuk2 | the n810 is fast | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: have heard rumours it's better than SGX | 12:08 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: No. It's nice despite such tacky T&A tactics | 12:08 |
| lcuk2 | it just has to spend a long time drawing its huge screen | 12:08 |
| lcuk2 | the N8 has LOWER RESOLUTION display which allows a lesser cpu to look slick | 12:08 |
| lcuk2 | hint hint | 12:08 |
| crashanddie | lcuk2: and it has to spend even more time going through 18 different layers of software abstraction to reach the screen in the first place. | 12:09 |
| lcuk2 | its 640*360 | 12:09 |
| Jaffa | lcuk2: Sure - but I'm a user too and I care about UI responsiveness. | 12:09 |
| lcuk2 | yes | 12:09 |
| Jaffa | Virtual keyboard's not as nice as N900, of course | 12:09 |
| lcuk2 | so do that on n900 | 12:09 |
| lcuk2 | with meego | 12:09 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: virtual keyboard as good as Opera's VK? | 12:09 |
| lcuk2 | and see how it works | 12:09 |
| FIQ|n900 | What is the default browser of MeeGo? | 12:10 |
| crashanddie | FIQ|n900: internet explorer | 12:10 |
| FIQ|n900 | microB, fennec, opera, what? :P | 12:10 |
| FIQ|n900 | yeah, right | 12:10 |
| FIQ|n900 | but, what is it? | 12:10 |
| crashanddie | "Blackberry Hotspot Browser" | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: ( crashanddie: SpeedEvil: ) correct me when I'm wrong, but when you use just one sensor behind a lens of a certain aperture size, this won't improve the quality loss from small aperture, when compared to using same apperture size lens with a multi-pixel-sensor? | 12:10 |
| crashanddie | only allows connections through Wifi | 12:11 |
| mece | FIQ|n900: there's fennec on the current meego | 12:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | Ah, ok | 12:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | @ mece | 12:11 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: there's quality loss related to aperture size? | 12:11 |
| crashanddie | that's news to me. | 12:11 |
| mece | Nokias meego/harmattan browser is supposed to be webkit based. | 12:12 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer: honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about and/or getting at | 12:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | so even while "surface" might have a lens in front of each of 600k one-pixel sensors, the overall performance still is that of a cam with an aperture of one pixel size | 12:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: sure, you need exposure like mad | 12:12 |
| Robot101 | mece: where did you hear that? | 12:12 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer: go read wikipedia | 12:12 |
| johnx | it has a rear-projection screen, IR emitters and IR cameras | 12:12 |
| aquatix | hm, speaking of fennec; anyone that has the nightly fennec build working on os2008? (n810) | 12:12 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: oh, explained like that: yes | 12:13 |
| Jaffa | lcuk2: You miss my point. I don't care from a product pov. If the device & OS can't properly drive itself... | 12:13 |
| aquatix | it says it's missing libc 3.4.9 here (iirc) | 12:13 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: but that's not what they care about | 12:13 |
| lcuk2 | jaffa my hint was actually towards stskeeps | 12:13 |
| lcuk2 | not you ;) | 12:13 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: if you have an aperture of one px, you can probably detect if it's obstructed or not, and then *maybe* an rgb value | 12:13 |
| crashanddie | not much more than that | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | yesyes | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd not call that a CAMERA | 12:14 |
| crashanddie | nope | 12:14 |
| mece | Robot101, I don't remember, but I'm pretty sure that was the case. | 12:14 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: plus, you'd have to see what the focus point is | 12:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol, that let aside, yes | 12:14 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: a pinhole camera will give you a pretty nice image of the sun when the image is projected at about a meter | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know | 12:15 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: use the same pinhole with a sensor plane at less than a cm from the aperture plane, and you get an insanely bright spot that is either completely washed out or black. | 12:15 |
| MNZ | just stick a webcam on the darn thing and be done with it | 12:16 |
| pupnik_ | binoculars focussed on a mirror bouncing off to a wall can also project an image of the sun - you can see sunspots and eclipses | 12:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | just ignore that M$ BS hoax | 12:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't they also regularly announce "really usable OS"? | 12:17 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer: you mean that they can make a thinner Surface, or that the current one actually exists? | 12:18 |
| FIQ|n900 | wouldn't suprise me at all | 12:18 |
| FIQ|n900 | @ DocScrutinizer | 12:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | what wouldn't surprise you? If M$ had announced another vaporware that never is to come? | 12:19 |
| crashanddie | is objdump available on the n900? | 12:20 |
| lcuk2 | jaffa so you are rewriting hermes as a native app? | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | or just if some bizz droid in M$ hasn't understood what optical touchpad is all about, and made up some BS about 'cameras in surface' | 12:21 |
| FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer: yeah. and the fact that it would make "really usable OS" | 12:21 |
| MNZ | crashanddie, yes, objdump is available | 12:21 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer: I still can't tell if you're talking about the current version or some future version ... | 12:21 |
| crashanddie | hmm | 12:21 |
| mece | crashanddie, there is binutils. Shouldn't it be part ofd that? | 12:21 |
| crashanddie | I really don't want to setup scratchbox | 12:21 |
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| crashanddie | thanks mece | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm talking about the article crashanddie linked to (well actually he linked to a comment on that article) | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | "" thin as a sheet of glass, with cameras built into the display"" | 12:23 |
| johnx | ah, got it | 12:24 |
| * johnx didn't RTFS | 12:24 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd be *surprised* if this were about an already existing device | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | as such device never will exist | 12:24 |
| johnx | meh. it's marketing speak | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | (the next 10 or 15 years) | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | or next 1500 years | 12:25 |
| johnx | there is a current version of surface that is quite real, but it involves a rear-projected display, ir emitters and ir cameras | 12:25 |
| johnx | it's almost exactly the size of one of those cocktail-style arcade cabinets | 12:25 |
| johnx | costs $12,500 | 12:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, an interactive table? | 12:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, I don't care, please don't answer | 12:27 |
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| * peb__ is gone. Gone since Tue Sep 7 15:18:00 2010 | 12:27 | |
| Corsac | peb__: we don't care | 12:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wasn't peb__ earning a +q or +b from crashanddie for that annoyance, some months ago? | 12:28 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: Ping? | 12:29 |
| crashanddie | was it peb_? | 12:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol, you got him on your /ignore ? | 12:30 |
| crashanddie | no no | 12:30 |
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| crashanddie | I was wondering if it were indeed Peb who got banned for it | 12:30 |
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| timeless | anyone here know what the heck "canceled" means in modest's outbox? | 12:31 |
| timeless | or how to debug "sending" | 12:31 |
| timeless | sp3000: ping | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=is+gone.+Gone+since+ | 12:31 |
| * johnx wonders if he is the only person who ever had consistently good luck with modest ... | 12:32 | |
| Jaffa | lcuk2: Thinking of trying to, anyway | 12:32 |
| timeless | (anyone know what my last point number was) | 12:32 |
| timeless | johnx: i've generally not had much trouble w/ it | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | peb peb_ peb__ peb___ is gone. Gone since... | 12:32 |
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| timeless | but it just ate my last x messages | 12:32 |
| timeless | hi tekojo | 12:32 |
| tekojo | hi timeless | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless: 17 ? | 12:32 |
| johnx | timeless: switching between cell with crappy reception and wifi? what were the circumstances? | 12:33 |
| timeless | doc: is that available or used? | 12:33 |
| crashanddie | peb__: in case you didn't get the message: deactivate your bloody away script. | 12:33 |
| lcuk2 | jaffa cool | 12:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol, not sure | 12:33 |
| timeless | 3.5g atm on o2 pay as you go | 12:33 |
| crashanddie | timeless: got credit left? | 12:33 |
| timeless | no wifi involved | 12:33 |
| timeless | crashanddie: i'm using it now | 12:34 |
| timeless | :b | 12:34 |
| crashanddie | fairy nuff | 12:34 |
| crashanddie | timeless: can you connect to an smtp and send an email manually? | 12:34 |
| timeless | it's 10gbp for 1mo "unlimited" on an "iPhone only" plan | 12:34 |
| X-Fade | Well, maybe they charge you per email ;) | 12:34 |
| timeless | crashanddie: i don't think busybox includes telnet | 12:35 |
| nidO | o2's data service allows port25 connections | 12:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | messybox and telnet - *cough* | 12:35 |
| nidO | on contract, at least | 12:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | dream team | 12:35 |
| timeless | it worked earlier | 12:35 |
| MNZ | actually, maemo has both telnet and netcat | 12:36 |
| johnx | timeless: could you have roamed between towers? | 12:36 |
| MNZ | not messybox | 12:36 |
| timeless | johnx: i wrote one from my guest house room | 12:36 |
| timeless | so i was quite stationary | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: netcat? sure it wasn't socat? | 12:36 |
| MNZ | well the package says netcat | 12:37 |
| MNZ | and there's socat as well | 12:37 |
| timeless | what repo? extras? | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | guess that's new, as I'd prefer netcat over socat, for mere memorability of cmd syntax | 12:37 |
| MNZ | netcat -> tools | 12:38 |
| MNZ | socat -> extras | 12:38 |
| *** hannesw__ is now known as hannesw | 12:38 | |
| MNZ | telnet -> extras | 12:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, that might explain it | 12:38 |
| timeless | grr | 12:38 |
| timeless | you guys collectively suck | 12:38 |
| timeless | :) | 12:38 |
| * timeless picks tools | 12:38 | |
| * MNZ turns off vacuum. | 12:39 | |
| MNZ | Better now? | 12:39 |
| crashanddie | timeless: I guess sucking collectively would be better than... sucking oneself (or on our own?)? | 12:39 |
| timeless | ok, would someone please give me a one liner to test nc/25 w/ a server they like? | 12:40 |
| lcuk2 | crashanddie, that would lead to trips to the orthopedist | 12:40 |
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| * timeless kicks the brilliant list-ui designer who didn't include integrated search | 12:41 | |
| alterego | Are there any videos of Nokia World ? | 12:41 |
| timeless | (can't filter ham's catalog list) | 12:41 |
| alterego | Can just find little clips, kinda want to watch all the keynotes | 12:41 |
| * DocScrutinizer hands timeless heavy boots | 12:41 | |
| timeless | surely they'll suck, no? | 12:41 |
| timeless | doc: nc line would be better | 12:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~debian timeless | 12:42 |
| * infobot tells timeless to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! | 12:42 | |
| lcuk2 | alterego, theres been a live stream http://events.nokia.com/nokiaworld/home.htm | 12:42 |
| lcuk2 | and it says that a vid will be available | 12:42 |
| timeless | ~ $ nc smtp.gmail.com 25 | 12:42 |
| timeless | 220 mx.google.com ESMTP x33sm196264weq.47 | 12:42 |
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| lcuk2 | note: that page is awful, its got a sliding swiping phone in the background in eyeshot | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | cat | nc your.serv.er 25 | 12:43 |
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| timeless | anyway, the above should confirm that mail works.. | 12:43 |
| timeless | back to other stuff | 12:44 |
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| timeless | oh, mfe is still delivering inbound and retrieving contacts, so i shouldn't be locked out.. | 12:44 |
| johnx | timeless: quick question. what do you mean by doesn't include integrated search. it has find-as-you-type | 12:44 |
| timeless | johnx: open the catalogs dialog.. | 12:45 |
| timeless | something each ui designer has to specify as turned on is stupid | 12:45 |
| johnx | aah, that. I guess it wasn't designed to have that many catalogs | 12:45 |
| timeless | i didn't kick the ham ui designer | 12:45 |
| timeless | i kicked the widget ui designer | 12:46 |
| johnx | aaah, got it | 12:46 |
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| timeless | anyway, can someone please help me figure out how to debug outbound mail w/ modest? | 12:47 |
| jacekowski | tcpdump? | 12:47 |
| timeless | i'm walking to edinburgh cstle and would like to conserve power | 12:47 |
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| MNZ | tcpdump + wireshark | 12:47 |
| timeless | grr | 12:48 |
| timeless | bazookas unwelcome | 12:48 |
| jacekowski | tcpdump then | 12:48 |
| timeless | modest based logging preferred | 12:48 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Just delete the mail and copy it into gmail web? | 12:48 |
| X-Fade | Saves you a lot of energy :) | 12:49 |
| timeless | um, there's no copy | 12:49 |
| timeless | when i was asking for my point number | 12:49 |
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| timeless | 18. a mail app should al allow one to perform all basic mail operations (move, copy, forward, reply, save) on messages in all folders (inbox, outbox, drafts, sent) | 12:53 |
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| MNZ | Oh so that's what 'point number' is.. Are these points recorded anywhere besides the irc log? | 12:54 |
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| timeless | 19. an onscreen keyboard shouldn't place l and ! next to eachother l | 12:54 |
| timeless | not yet, but eventually... | 12:55 |
| lcuk2 | timeless, debugging the stream hmm | 12:55 |
| lcuk2 | not something actually expected | 12:55 |
| lcuk2 | especially not on the go | 12:55 |
| lcuk2 | is mail just sitting there? | 12:56 |
| * timeless walks up north bridge to the royal mile - it's a wee bit longer than a proper mile... | 12:56 | |
| alterego | I should have gone to NW | 12:57 |
| * alterego sighs | 12:57 | |
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| timeless | it's sitting in outbox status 'sending' and status 'canceled' - 2 messages.. | 12:58 |
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| lcuk2 | nice timeless how are you connecting smtp/imap? | 13:00 |
| lcuk2 | and is the account simple or complex (ie lots of folders or just straight normal bleh account) | 13:00 |
| timeless | 20. a contacts view should *always* be able to open the corresponding card (the dialog from a contact in sms can't...) | 13:00 |
| lcuk2 | where are you reading the specs from btw? | 13:00 |
| lcuk2 | and where can i get the previous 18? | 13:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | timeless: small bazooka: tshark | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless: tshark|less even | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't use this command via ssh, kids! | 13:02 |
| timeless | 21. a multiline editor (e.g. for mail) while free to show 2-3 lines of a longer blob *must* automatically bring in a subsequent or preceeding line when the user reduces the lines to 1. | 13:02 |
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| timeless | irc log link is in topic, try yesterday. | 13:03 |
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| timeless | this is an mfe account w/ 20 or so remote folders. | 13:04 |
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| lcuk | timeless, does it get new messages down? | 13:05 |
| timeless | it's 11am and i've arrived at the castle, time to conserve power | 13:05 |
| lcuk | ok | 13:05 |
| timeless | lcuk: yes | 13:05 |
| lcuk | hmm | 13:06 |
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| Khertan_ | Hi ! | 13:11 |
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| Jaffa | Khertan: Using Khweeteur, very nice. | 13:13 |
| Jaffa | Khertan: Can it embolden (or some other way) the @replies? | 13:13 |
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| Khertan_ | embolden ? | 13:14 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_: accentuer | 13:14 |
| Jaffa | Khertan: As in make bolder :) | 13:14 |
| * Khertan_ launch google translator :) | 13:14 | |
| Khertan_ | ah thx crashanddie | 13:14 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 13:14 |
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| Jaffa | Khertan: Notifications are nice, but they seem to open a new window, even if I have one open. That's the biggest issue I've seen so far. | 13:15 |
| Khertan_ | hum ... just only the @reply to you or all @reply ? | 13:15 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_: @reply to the user | 13:15 |
| Khertan_ | Jaffa: yep notification is broken since 0.0.27 | 13:15 |
| crashanddie | well, anything that matches @$username | 13:15 |
| Khertan_ | Jaffa: and i'm fighting against dbus to understand why | 13:15 |
| Jaffa | Yeah | 13:16 |
| Jaffa | What crashanddie said | 13:16 |
| * Khertan_ didn't like dbus | 13:16 | |
| Jaffa | Khertan_: DBus fun! | 13:16 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_: also, the twitter API provides a "in reply to" tweet ID | 13:16 |
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| crashanddie | this could enable conversation-style tweet display | 13:16 |
| Khertan_ | crashanddie: which is broken | 13:16 |
| crashanddie | no it's not | 13:16 |
| crashanddie | you just need to parse them as strings, not ints :P | 13:17 |
| Jaffa | What is "serialisation"? (with tweets/Twitter= I know the concept in general) | 13:17 |
| Khertan_ | it s ... made a try and you ll see most reply didn't have any in_reply_to id | 13:17 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_: then it's the other client that is broken | 13:17 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_: but a good client, or the web interface do it properly | 13:17 |
| Khertan_ | crashanddie: :) it could but the result is the same ... user complain about tweeteur := | 13:18 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 13:18 |
| merlin1991 | witter does it afaik | 13:18 |
| crashanddie | anyay, out for lunch | 13:18 |
| crashanddie | later | 13:18 |
| Khertan_ | but the question is how display reply correctly | 13:18 |
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| Khertan_ | put the icon the other side ? | 13:19 |
| Khertan_ | and display the original text in small font in the bottom ? | 13:19 |
| Khertan_ | someone know status.net works ? | 13:20 |
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| Khertan_ | ouch ... there is a but in reply_to in Khweeteur | 13:25 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 13:25 |
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| tlir | hey guys | 13:30 |
| * tlir been a while... | 13:30 | |
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| tlir | has anyone tried android on the n810? | 13:32 |
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| apol_ | is it just me or it isn't possible to install libqt4-gui due to unmet dependencies on ARM? (opengles-* stuff) | 13:44 |
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| Stskeeps | added the nokia-binaries repo? | 13:45 |
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| apol_ | Stskeeps: oh no | 13:46 |
| apol_ | >.< | 13:46 |
| apol_ | ok might be that | 13:46 |
| apol_ | thx | 13:46 |
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| crashanddie | lol | 13:49 |
| crashanddie | about 40% of the people at the htc launch have nokia world badges showing | 13:50 |
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| nidO | i hear everyone got given survival kits from nokia too? | 13:53 |
| pupnik_ | meego strategy should include a decoupled OS/device track. 1) Turbo-fy a unity to Work-up Meego-Arm to a competitive consumer-phone OS. 2) Task one unit to bring-out the hottest spread of smart-phones they can, regardless of where the OS-update status is. I don't think Nokia can afford the current release cycle. | 13:54 |
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| nidO | any clues as to where a live stream for the htc event is? | 13:57 |
| smooph | pupnik_: second that | 13:57 |
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| lcuk | nidO, its here http://events.nokia.com/nokiaworld/ | 14:01 |
| nidO | :< | 14:01 |
| lcuk | thats the only event that matters right to many around here right now | 14:02 |
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| Carneque | Hi all, just got N900 in the mail... looking forward to doing some SDK work... I need to ask a stupid question first... how do I find my own phone number? | 14:08 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Phone - pnatd / at+cnum=? is the wrong way | 14:09 |
| lcuk | Carneque, i normally end up calling my other phone with a new sim, but theres some technical way as SpeedEvil showed :P | 14:10 |
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| Carneque | well since I can now, I might as well find it the super difficult way... of course that's why we all got this phone to begin with right? | 14:10 |
| Carneque | oh that's actually really easy... sweet | 14:11 |
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| Carneque | thanks speedevil | 14:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm sure it's probably also in gconf | 14:12 |
| wazd | Yo dawg! We heard that you like interfaces, so we've created the interface above the interface, so you can navigate while you navigate | 14:12 |
| wazd | (c) HTC | 14:12 |
| smooph | The Contact section also has a "My Settings" or something like it section | 14:12 |
| nidO | in fairness, nothing wrong with that. Sense is far better than the uis their devices would ship with otherwise | 14:12 |
| wazd | nidO: I'm fine with "another" UI, but UI on top of the UI on top of the UI | 14:13 |
| wazd | nidO: that's what Sense for WM was actually :) | 14:14 |
| Carneque | anyone thought about adding some backtrack linux functionality to the N900? | 14:14 |
| nidO | well, until winmo and android ship with command-line only versions, thats the best HTC can do :> | 14:14 |
| wazd | nidO: MeeGo is the answer :) | 14:14 |
| nidO | seriously though, no livestream for the htc event? :< | 14:14 |
| wazd | nidO: they can't even power on htcsense.com in time :P | 14:15 |
| ShadowJK | my phone doesn't know its own number :) | 14:15 |
| ShadSEC | Carneque, there are already several projects working on that | 14:17 |
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| wazd | samsung tab for $1240 - oh my :) | 14:24 |
| Carneque | ShadSEC, any links? | 14:25 |
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| ShadSEC | www.neopwn.com - Very alfa yet, but they have developed modules with injection support | 14:27 |
| ShadSEC | also, it is some weird thing mixing open source with paid beta...... | 14:28 |
| ShadSEC | but the injection modules are great | 14:28 |
| ShadSEC | I wonder if they have already reach the 1300 euro for releasing the source of the patch | 14:29 |
| alterego | It'd be nice if I could have firefox to per tab proxying :/ | 14:30 |
| ShadSEC | on maemo.org talk you can search for kismet and aircrack-ng | 14:30 |
| Carneque | cool SEC, do you work for the SEC? | 14:31 |
| ShadSEC | whats the SEC? | 14:31 |
| ShadSEC | the SEC in mi nick stands for security | 14:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Securities and Exchange Commission? | 14:31 |
| ShadSEC | obviously not | 14:31 |
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| * SpeedEvil imagines ShadSEC... http://stylefrizz.com/img/louis-vuitton-lv-monogram-gimp-mask.jpg | 14:33 | |
| ShadSEC | lol | 14:35 |
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| crashanddie | ShadSEC: well, it's a shame they absolutely want to use chroot, when there's utterly no need for it | 14:40 |
| ShadSEC | That's a very interesting topic.... | 14:40 |
| ShadSEC | it depends... | 14:40 |
| crashanddie | ShadSEC: plus, the chroot is fucking up more things than actually fixes it. And the mount menu is completely fucked as well. They have some serious bugs they need to weed out | 14:41 |
| ShadSEC | I have tested the injection modules, but I havent even mounted neopwn yet | 14:41 |
| crashanddie | I mean, I like the idea, of having a unified interface is nice | 14:41 |
| crashanddie | But what is it in the end? Just a compilation of tools readily available, and just waiting to be compiled? | 14:42 |
| ShadSEC | I am also working on some related project, probably will release something in a week or two | 14:42 |
| crashanddie | So basically, he took on the projet to collect a number of tools, but couldn't be bothered to compile them natively? | 14:42 |
| ShadSEC | And, I have done all the development inside a chroot | 14:42 |
| ShadSEC | I think it is safest for many reasons | 14:42 |
| crashanddie | safest? | 14:42 |
| crashanddie | He's mounting all of proc, sys, and whatnot to the chroot | 14:42 |
| ShadSEC | also, you get the option to natively compile, that's something unresonable to do outside a chroot | 14:42 |
| crashanddie | unreasonable? WTH? | 14:43 |
| ShadSEC | space issues and more... | 14:43 |
| crashanddie | erhm... | 14:43 |
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| ShadSEC | I have come to a conclusion about maemo/n900 | 14:43 |
| ShadSEC | the main "phone" os, should be left unharmed | 14:43 |
| ShadSEC | then it should be a community secondary FULL OS in a chroot | 14:44 |
| crashanddie | lmao | 14:44 |
| ShadSEC | why? | 14:44 |
| nidO | except maemo's nothing like that | 14:44 |
| crashanddie | yeah, because we really ahve the ability to throw RAM in the air, eh? | 14:44 |
| nidO | and if you want a community chroot os | 14:44 |
| crashanddie | Maybe you want a chroot for every single app out there? | 14:44 |
| nidO | easydebian's been in the repos for quite a while | 14:44 |
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| ShadSEC | no, just one main, and one secondar COMMNITY chroot | 14:44 |
| ShadSEC | community | 14:44 |
| crashanddie | I really don't see the point | 14:45 |
| crashanddie | we have QA processes for a reason | 14:45 |
| crashanddie | and chroot will just enable bad practises and wasted CPU cycles | 14:45 |
| ShadSEC | but you wouldn't need that much QA that is needed now | 14:45 |
| crashanddie | of course you would | 14:45 |
| crashanddie | you're just sliding the problem somewhere else | 14:45 |
| ShadSEC | I don't see why it would waste more cpu | 14:45 |
| ShadSEC | in fact, it isnt in practice because that is exactly what i am running here | 14:46 |
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| crashanddie | if everything runs inside a chroot, you'll just end up with people not wanting to kill their chroot. So instead of doing QA for the primary, "phone OS" as you call it, you'd just be doing QA for the chroot | 14:46 |
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| ShadSEC | i am being pragmatic.... there are lots of missing packages for mainmaemo because of those QA issues | 14:46 |
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| ShadSEC | when you can compile most of them right away inside a chroot | 14:46 |
| crashanddie | and you can compile most stuff inside Maemo directly as well | 14:47 |
| *** ToJa92_ is now known as ToJa92 | 14:47 | |
| ShadSEC | yes, but you are taking risks doing that | 14:47 |
| nidO | just as you are doing it in chroot | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | chroot uses significant amounts of extra RAM | 14:47 |
| ShadSEC | I dont notice it | 14:47 |
| ShadSEC | how much would you call significant extra? 10%? | 14:47 |
| crashanddie | ShadSEC: not only do you need to load/swap the main libraries, on top of that you have to load the other libraries of the secondary os inside the chroot | 14:48 |
| *** cfreak200 has joined #maemo | 14:48 | |
| ShadSEC | Only the ones missing on the main os | 14:49 |
| crashanddie | god damn, you sound almost as thick as swc|666 himself | 14:49 |
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| ShadSEC | it works great for me, what can i say | 14:50 |
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| crashanddie | well, good for you | 14:50 |
| crashanddie | I don't see it taking off though | 14:50 |
| ShadSEC | anyway, about the neopwn chroot | 14:50 |
| crashanddie | I'd rather package the drivers nicely, with some natively compiled apps, properly optified. | 14:50 |
| ShadSEC | its easier that way in first place | 14:50 |
| *** ToJa92_ is now known as ToJa92 | 14:50 | |
| ShadSEC | and considering how alpha it is I dont think he has had the time to even consider other way | 14:50 |
| crashanddie | no, he decided to put himself in this shit | 14:51 |
| crashanddie | big major difference | 14:51 |
| ShadSEC | But you can already do that | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: no - you inside a chroot need to load all the libraries inside the chroot into RAM. | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: Independantly of if they are present on the main system. | 14:51 |
| ShadSEC | I have moved some apps compiled in the chroot and take them out to main os.. everything is working perfectly | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: Normally - if you have 100 programs using glibc, you have one copy of it in RAM. With a chroot, you have two. | 14:52 |
| crashanddie | ShadSEC: but that only works if your chroot has the same glibc, the same kernel, the same dynamic libraries | 14:52 |
| ShadSEC | speedevil, mmm | 14:52 |
| ShadSEC | the same glibc i am not sure | 14:53 |
| crashanddie | ShadSEC: and in that regard, it's exactly the same as running everything in the main OS. Just use scratchbox for dev, and the device for testing. Tons of people are doing it. | 14:53 |
| ShadSEC | the same kernel yes, of course | 14:53 |
| crashanddie | ShadSEC: well, a compatible glibc at least | 14:53 |
| ShadSEC | the same libs... well, i first copied all the main os ones to the chroot | 14:53 |
| crashanddie | ShadSEC: (so the chroot needs to have an older glibc than the main OS) | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: the same or different libs are quite different. | 14:53 |
| ShadSEC | any adds or changes that have been made later were just needed | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: Err - the same | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: with respect to memory usage. | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: you need a copy in RAM from the chroot, and from the main OS. | 14:54 |
| crashanddie | do you want to know why he's doing everything inside a chroot? | 14:54 |
| crashanddie | I'll tell you why | 14:54 |
| crashanddie | because he wants to limit the apps to only run inside neopwn | 14:54 |
| crashanddie | that way, he thinks he'll have a steady stream of income | 14:54 |
| ShadSEC | probably you guys are right, but I can only say it is working great for me, and I don't notice the penalty in practise | 14:55 |
| crashanddie | Heck, I'm decompiling the drivers as we speak, reverse engineering them, and as soon as I have workable sources, I'm releasing to the public | 14:55 |
| ShadSEC | I am not so sure it is all for the money... | 14:55 |
| crashanddie | yes it is | 14:56 |
| ShadSEC | but who knows | 14:56 |
| crashanddie | he was pissed that nobody bought neopwn with the n900 | 14:56 |
| crashanddie | the guy has I don't know how many "financially involved contributors" | 14:56 |
| crashanddie | which means he has debts | 14:56 |
| ShadSEC | I wasn't very positive about the failed announce and all that sutff.... (appnns in forum), but at least they developed the injection patch, which is GREAT. | 14:57 |
| crashanddie | and they should've opened up immediately at that point | 14:57 |
| crashanddie | but he didn't, and decided to go commercial | 14:57 |
| crashanddie | worse yet, he decided to make people pay for something he didn't have yet, so that he could get the money to unlock the driver | 14:57 |
| ShadSEC | from what I can tell he is using compat-wireless | 14:58 |
| crashanddie | well, duh | 14:58 |
| crashanddie | "insmod compat.ko" | 14:58 |
| ShadSEC | uh? | 14:59 |
| crashanddie | lol | 14:59 |
| crashanddie | how did you install it? | 15:00 |
| ShadSEC | About the paying thing... it would have been much better if he had just said that in first instance | 15:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | ahem | 15:00 |
| ShadSEC | there's no compat.ko | 15:00 |
| * MohammadAG51 disagrees | 15:00 | |
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| crashanddie | ShadSEC: so how did you install it, then? | 15:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | cfg80211.ko compat.ko control-panel-ui.tar.gz kernel-power-flasher_2.6.28-maemo40-wl1_armel.deb kernel-power-modules_2.6.28-maemo40-wl1_armel.deb kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo40-wl1_armel.deb mac80211.ko neopwn neopwn.desktop neopwn.png neopwn.sh optimize.sh rfkill_backport.ko test.sh wl1251.ko wl1251_spi.ko | 15:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | file list on a line ftw | 15:02 |
| sp3000 | timeless: pong | 15:02 |
| sp3000 | timeless: 10098#c2 doesn't wfm | 15:02 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: could you test something for me? | 15:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | sure | 15:02 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: remove the powerkernel provided by neopwn | 15:02 |
| ShadSEC | gezz yer right ;) | 15:02 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: install the one in the repos | 15:02 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: and load the modules | 15:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, it should work | 15:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | but yeah, I'll do that | 15:02 |
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| ShadSEC | didn't look at it after I scripted | 15:02 |
| crashanddie | if it works, I'm packaging tonight and releasing | 15:02 |
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| MohammadAG51 | shout if you need help with packaging | 15:03 |
| crashanddie | sure | 15:03 |
| ShadSEC | I did | 15:03 |
| ShadSEC | and it complaines about missing symbols | 15:03 |
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| crashanddie | lol | 15:03 |
| crashanddie | yeah, sure it does :) | 15:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 15:03 |
| Termana | Half following the conversation from my n900 | 15:03 |
| * crashanddie highfives MohammadAG51 for finding that one | 15:03 | |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: As you are a lazy bastard, I fixed fb for you ;) | 15:03 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: Hope you don't mind :) | 15:03 |
| Termana | Has he released the kernel source? | 15:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | facebook? | 15:03 |
| crashanddie | Termana: nope | 15:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | it wasn't broken! | 15:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | :P | 15:03 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: frozen bubble. | 15:03 |
| crashanddie | Termana: we just have the binaries.. I'm trying to reverse engineer it though. | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG51 | I uploaded a new package lol | 15:04 |
| * MohammadAG51 curses broken OpenWRT install | 15:04 | |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: Yeah, but I changed it to depend on new perl. | 15:04 |
| Termana | So, isn't this a GPL violation? | 15:04 |
| ShadSEC | crashanddie, aren't they suppossed to release it when they reach 1300 euro? | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah X-Fade i uploaded that | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG51 | didn't check if it went through though | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG51 | Termana, it is | 15:04 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: I created a -2 at least. | 15:04 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: 5-1 was the lastest. | 15:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm, then it didn't go through | 15:05 |
| crashanddie | Termana: well, they're not exactly distributing | 15:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | X-Fade, I might keep it in -devel tbh | 15:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | too many testers think depending on perl is a blocker | 15:05 |
| crashanddie | Termana: so they're not violating it... But I don't think reverse engineering a GPL driver is a violation, regardless of my having the source code or not | 15:05 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: Well now we should push it. As they will get free space. | 15:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | cashhandle it isn't | 15:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | typo intended :P | 15:06 |
| crashanddie | i know | 15:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | xD | 15:06 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: And perl is now available in apps, so for everybody. | 15:06 |
| Termana | :P | 15:06 |
| crashanddie | "Cash Handler" | 15:06 |
| * MohammadAG51 likes Crash Handle better | 15:06 | |
| crashanddie | actually, that'd be a better suited nickname for swc|666 | 15:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | rofl | 15:06 |
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| MohammadAG51 | X-Fade, I'll think about it :P | 15:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | the QA team needs to be fired (wrong word) and reviewed | 15:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | assign new testers and don't let n00bs (no offence) test | 15:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | depending on perl is like depending on pyside, it's not my fault the game needs it | 15:07 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: Yeah, but it used to cost a lot of space on rootfs. Now it doesn't. | 15:08 |
| crashanddie | http://twitter.com/teotwaki/status/24563767706 | 15:08 |
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| MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | why 'no sources'? | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:08 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps: cuz I don't have them | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 15:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | why not upload kernel-power wl1 to devel | 15:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | non-free | 15:09 |
| zap | fired or shooted? | 15:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | shot* that too | 15:09 |
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| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: Won't that conflict with the existing one? | 15:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | nope, shouldn't | 15:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | it's a different package name | 15:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | or... not | 15:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | if it's one thing the ssu taught me | 15:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | it's how to unpack and repack properly | 15:11 |
| * Stskeeps twitches | 15:12 | |
| * MohammadAG51 points to GPL in debian/copyright | 15:12 | |
| MNZ | MohammadAG51, how to repack?? I have tried it a bunch of times and gave up... simply using ar fails. | 15:13 |
| mece | todays meego image seems curiously absent from tablets-dev... problems with the build? | 15:13 |
| Stskeeps | mece: fairly large bunch | 15:13 |
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| Stskeeps | the good news is that our qt nightmares are over | 15:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:13 |
| lcuk | meego had nightmares? | 15:14 |
| lcuk | I thought it was happycamperville :P | 15:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | MNZ, dpkg-deb -b | 15:14 |
| Termana | lcuk, the MeeGo men had nightmares | 15:14 |
| mece | lcuk, young 'uns often do. | 15:14 |
| Stskeeps | if you have to repack, you're doing stuff wrong | 15:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:14 |
| lcuk | mece mm | 15:14 |
| MNZ | MohammadAG51, I meant an actual deb unpacked with 'ar x bla.deb' | 15:15 |
| Termana | Stskeeps, is that why you pack several times for any flights? | 15:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | ar? | 15:15 |
| Termana | :P | 15:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | idk | 15:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | I use dpkg-deb -x to unpack | 15:15 |
| MNZ | yeah, the more sensible way. I should just stop doing that ar thing :/ | 15:16 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, shoving a random binary that you didnt develop into non free sounds painful | 15:16 |
| lcuk | how can you confirm its validity ? | 15:16 |
| lcuk | as a security person I would have thought you wouldnt take a risk like that? | 15:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by | 15:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | Stskeeps, see? | 15:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | i can modify the kernel package, and I'm not violating anything | 15:17 |
| * lcuk smiles at qtmobility | 15:17 | |
| * mece cuddles qtmobility | 15:17 | |
| * mece stops cuddling qtmobility and eyes qtquick instead | 15:18 | |
| * MNZ googles qtmobility | 15:18 | |
| * MohammadAG51 pets qtmobility with a knife | 15:18 | |
| * frals trouts lcuk | 15:18 | |
| * MohammadAG51 slaps frals with an infobot | 15:18 | |
| MohammadAG51 | (that thing bites) | 15:19 |
| * mece runs, screaming something about "Zombies" | 15:19 | |
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| * MNZ thinks you are a crazy bunch | 15:19 | |
| Termana | http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/15/nokia-crashes-htcs-london-event-with-red-balloons-hate/ - :P | 15:19 |
| MohammadAG51 | MNZ, who isn't, muhahaha | 15:19 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: I never said I'd shove it in non-free | 15:20 |
| lcuk | mece qtmobility isnt all about front end stuff, its talking to the backend with nice classes. | 15:20 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: I said I'd release it, entirely different things | 15:20 |
| lcuk | Pending a few tests by @MohammadAG this afternoon, I will be releasing the Wifi injection driver for the #Nokia #N900 tonight. (No sources) | 15:21 |
| mece | lcuk, I know. So much funky new stuff, so little time.. | 15:21 |
| lcuk | release it with no sources | 15:21 |
| lcuk | you cant put it into free section with no sources | 15:21 |
| lcuk | the only way you can do it is to put it in non-free | 15:21 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: and? | 15:21 |
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| MohammadAG51 | LOL @ nokia | 15:21 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: no, I can just put it on an FTP or even megaupload for that matter | 15:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | lcuk, actually he can | 15:22 |
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| mece | HTC came to NokiaWorld with buses to get the people over to their gig though... | 15:22 |
| lcuk | hmm MohammadAG51 | 15:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | someone did that with unrar on the ubuntu repos | 15:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | just make a debian/rules o cp files | 15:22 |
| lcuk | did they get shouted at or is it still there? | 15:22 |
| Termana | mece, ouch | 15:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | still there afaik | 15:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | and i was a packaging noob months ago, so I kinda did the same with Open Remote Play (SORRY!) | 15:23 |
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| lcuk | frals, could you let me borrow that trout of yours please | 15:24 |
| mece | yeah.. I'm out. ta. | 15:24 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG51, when frals gets back | 15:26 |
| lcuk | get him to slap you with his trout | 15:26 |
| frals | lcuk: my precioussssssssssssssssssssssss | 15:26 |
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| * tybollt slaps frals w/ MohammadAG51 | 15:29 | |
| Termana | lcuk, I'd rather frals just leave his 'trout' right where it belongs | 15:30 |
| Termana | :P | 15:30 |
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| MohammadAG51 | LOL | 15:32 |
| * pupnik_ frals tybollt with a MohammadAG51 | 15:33 | |
| * Termana ted pupnik_ | 15:34 | |
| Termana | Too bad it's not spelt right :P | 15:34 |
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| crashanddie | bonus points if you make your quit message "Conversation Termanated" | 15:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anybody tried modprobe --force <new-wlan-drivers>, on stock and uncrippled power kernel ? | 15:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (can't get worse than kernel OOPS, no?) | 15:43 |
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| hazl | hi | 15:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | anything similar for insmod! | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeh? | 15:44 |
| hazl | How does one get voice navigation in maperro? | 15:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | insmod is obsolete | 15:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | ?* | 15:44 |
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| hazl | For the life of me I can't make it work. | 15:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | modprobe is the 'new' insmod (since 10 years or what, now) | 15:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | man insmod: 2002-12-27 ... Most users will want to use modprobe(8) instead, which is more clever. | 15:47 |
| E0x | insmod don't load dependencies | 15:48 |
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| ShadSEC | insmod in maemo doesnt have --force-magic | 15:48 |
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| ShadSEC | or it does? mmmm | 15:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | --force == --force-vermagic and --force-modversion. == -f | 15:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what's --force-magic ? | 15:53 |
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| ShadSEC | opps, typo | 15:54 |
| hazl | Is anyone using mappero? | 15:54 |
| Surfa | if it happens not to crash | 15:55 |
| Surfa | sometimes yes | 15:55 |
| hazl | Is there any working and usable voice navigation for N900? | 15:56 |
| nidO | yes, mappero | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | sygic | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:56 |
| hazl | How do you enable voice? There is no sound in mappero. | 15:57 |
| E0x | in mouse is enable , but in a italian voice | 15:57 |
| nidO | in settings is an option called "voice guidance" or something equally obvious | 15:57 |
| nidO | tick it | 15:57 |
| E0x | i never bother change it | 15:57 |
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| hazl | It is on. There is still no sound. No error either. | 15:58 |
| nidO | turned your phone off silent? | 15:58 |
| nidO | also, are you moving currently? | 15:58 |
| hazl | no phone is not on silent. I am not moving now. But I tested it earlyer by settin a goal and there was no sound. | 16:00 |
| alterego | Do goals have alarms? | 16:00 |
| alterego | Oh, you're talking about mapping :) | 16:01 |
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| GAN900 | I can't believe Nokia World didn't see any MeeGo action. | 16:04 |
| Noma | MeeGo Conference comes in a month | 16:04 |
| redeeman | hello | 16:04 |
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| redeeman | i have a problem, i cant use wifi at all anymore, it started around 1 month ago, basically, it cannot do ifconfig wlan0 up | 16:05 |
| redeeman | then it just hangs | 16:05 |
| redeeman | and wlancond starts using 100% cpu | 16:05 |
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| redeeman | in dmesg i see wl1251: error timeout waiting for the hardware to complete initialization | 16:05 |
| redeeman | just after it loads the firmware | 16:05 |
| redeeman | wl1251-bin.fw | 16:05 |
| redeeman | im on a very slow internet connection right now, the http conns drop all the time, so i cant really google about it | 16:06 |
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| redeeman | anyone that knows anything about this? | 16:06 |
| lcuk | redeeman, how do i do ifup from the UI? | 16:07 |
| lcuk | i cant find it | 16:07 |
| redeeman | it does it before trying to search for accesspoints | 16:07 |
| lcuk | ifconfig ^ | 16:07 |
| redeeman | if it do it manually same issue | 16:08 |
| lcuk | so what, your network list just doesnt show anything to connect to? | 16:08 |
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| redeeman | yep | 16:08 |
| GAN900 | Noma, doesn't have the same media coverage. | 16:08 |
| redeeman | it used to work ofc | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | borked firmware file? | 16:09 |
| Noma | GAN900: but it would've been a bad mistake to release a meego phone with completely unfinished os | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | redeeman: borked firmware file? | 16:09 |
| GAN900 | Noma, not release. | 16:09 |
| redeeman | DocScrutinizer, can you post md5sum of correct ones? | 16:09 |
| lcuk | GAN900, indeed, though some stuff got done hopefully | 16:09 |
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| lcuk | ari and jaffa and thp were there | 16:09 |
| lcuk | thp will at least be interested in the gtk stide somewhat | 16:09 |
| GAN900 | Noma, Nokia never has releases synch up with announcements | 16:09 |
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| lcuk | unless he is rebuilding gpodder from scratch | 16:10 |
| GAN900 | But some at least would've been nice | 16:10 |
| * lcuk still miffed at not going | 16:10 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | if you paste cmdline here to do, I'll do | 16:10 |
| GAN900 | Instead we get a nice little demonstration that Symbian is still Nokia's favorite. | 16:10 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, understandably so | 16:10 |
| nidO | nothing wrong with that | 16:10 |
| lcuk | theres a lot of hard work gone into t | 16:10 |
| lcuk | and it does look good | 16:10 |
| Noma | if the would've said that "yeah we have a meego phone coming soon", who would've bought those symbian phones? of course the hype them now | 16:11 |
| redeeman | md5sum /lib/firmware/wl* | 16:11 |
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| nidO | symbian's tried and tested and works well, even if socialtards whine that "symbian r sux" just because s60's interface is dated | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | redeeman: sorry but c+p is all I can do right now | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ok | 16:11 |
| * lcuk goes walkabout, bbl | 16:11 | |
| redeeman | alternatively if someone else could just upload those two files somewhere i'd apreciate it | 16:11 |
| GAN900 | nidO, note that the N900 is still Nokia's most powerful hardware. | 16:12 |
| crashanddie | haha | 16:12 |
| crashanddie | this quote seems like it was written for the iPhone | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | 3a68787e5b1cb75e2a8c160ad79297ab /lib/firmware/wl1251-fw.bin | 16:12 |
| crashanddie | "If a machine can be made so that an idiot can use it, then only an idiot will use it." | 16:12 |
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| nidO | GAN900: which nicely demonstrates how good s^3 is under the hood, being as all it's new lower-spec phones are running s^3 really nicely | 16:12 |
| yoasif | I'm writing a webapp and i want to make sure it has good maemo support | 16:12 |
| GAN900 | Betting on the "tried and true" rarely got anybody very far in the tech sector. | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | 6d570e73a9cb1f686b2ad5cdbbdf6b83 /lib/firmware/wl1251-nvs.bin | 16:12 |
| yoasif | are there any guides to make sure i'm not doing anything too crazy like there are for iphone etc? | 16:13 |
| GAN900 | nidO, I'm not sure that's what I take away from it. | 16:13 |
| redeeman | same as here | 16:13 |
| alterego | yoasif: yes, on the forum nokia site. | 16:13 |
| GAN900 | Windows 98 runs really nicely on limited hardware, too. | 16:13 |
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| Termana | nidO, symbian does suck, and their new user interface is no difference. I still think it sucks. | 16:14 |
| nidO | the fact remains, the new raft of devices from nokia are cheap, so there's not going to be crazy mad highspec hardware in them. all 4 of them are budget-to-midlevel price, and have relatively high-end though not groundbreaking hardware in them - nothing going for the cream of the top-end there, but that doesnt diminish what *has* come out | 16:14 |
| alterego | Termana: the "new" interface isn't realy knew. | 16:15 |
| alterego | Just more additions for touch devices. | 16:15 |
| alterego | Symbian^4 will hgave a whole new UI | 16:15 |
| alterego | Completely based on Qt | 16:15 |
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| alterego | (thank god) :) | 16:15 |
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| jacekowski | alterego: symbian^3 | 16:19 |
| yoasif | alterego, if i just do a mobile ui optimized for iphone it should look ok on nokia right? :/ | 16:21 |
| alterego | yoasif: sure, I don't see why not. | 16:22 |
| yoasif | alterego, you think the guys here would be willing to play with it once i am done? | 16:23 |
| alterego | I'm sure someone will, try talking on talk.maemo.org | 16:23 |
| alterego | Why hasn't IPADD on tmo been banned yet? He's posted like four ads in the last hour | 16:24 |
| crashanddie | alterego: you must be mistaken, this is #maemo, not #tmo. | 16:25 |
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| nidO | hm, nokia releasing their own charging mat then eh | 16:28 |
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| jacekowski | why they don't make it compatible with stuff already on market | 16:29 |
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| nidO | sadly its not actually wireless | 16:29 |
| jacekowski | it will take 20 years for them to standarise on something | 16:29 |
| jacekowski | and it will end up like microusb | 16:29 |
| nidO | it seems to just be a dock with 4 charge cables | 16:29 |
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| nidO | shame really, an obvious play for any of the big manus seems to me to pick up the tech powermat or similar use, and start building the inductors into all their future phones | 16:31 |
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| frals | nidO: its a dock with 4 cables and some usb slots for plugging in whatever brand chargers and comes with se/lg/samsung adapters or something like that | 16:34 |
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| nidO | yer see up, figured that out right after my initial excitement :( | 16:34 |
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| frals | ah, my bad | 16:37 |
| nidO | I just saw the picture before actually looking carefully and reading, had figured that might be a prelude to building induction charging into the phones or batteries :p | 16:37 |
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| marnanel | the last few days, hildon-desktop has been doing the fade-in-fade-out transitions for putting a single-line note up, without actually stopping to show me a note. This is on fremantle. Does that sound familiar to anyone? | 16:45 |
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| GAN900 | marnanel, reboot? | 16:50 |
| lcuk | marnanel, ^ | 16:51 |
| * marnanel has done so, and it still does it | 16:51 | |
| marnanel | It does display notes properly when there are notes to display, but it just keeps running this transition every ten or twenty seconds the rest of the time | 16:51 |
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| lcuk | marnanel, screenshot | 16:52 |
| marnanel | lcuk: the transition takes ~ half a second, it will be very difficult to get a screenshot of it | 16:53 |
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| lcuk | marnanel, how often? | 16:53 |
| marnanel | every ten or twenty seconds. I could time it if you like | 16:54 |
| lcuk | hmm you have something trying to sign in? | 16:54 |
| lcuk | it doesnt sound familiar to me | 16:54 |
| lcuk | but since nowadays theres soooooo many apps available thats not difficult | 16:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | marnanel: which transition? | 17:00 |
| * marnanel will try it with all IM accounts disabled and see | 17:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer | fade-in/out? | 17:00 |
| marnanel | DocScrutinizer: the one which is used to display a single-line note that drops down from the top of the screen, causing the background to blur, and then rises up again, unblurring the background | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you say background blurs and unblurs without any yellow notifier showing? | 17:01 |
| marnanel | yes | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | please check exact frequency, and variance in freq | 17:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | it's haunted | 17:03 |
| MNZ | it's bored | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | I remember to have seen some "notify every 30s about xyz" | 17:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if transition is 'too slow' for configured display time of notifier, it might easily look like transitions are for no apparent reason | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | ...where nofier is destructed before transition had a chance to display it | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | notifier* | 17:05 |
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| * marnanel will time it for a few iterations | 17:05 | |
| DocScrutinizer | k, | 17:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also check if there are any updates in HAM, new SMS, mails, IM msgs, dunno what else | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | missed calls | 17:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn, this must be annoying :-S | 17:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | is this notification a d-bus call usually, or is it a direct lib api call? | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | of hildon desktop | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | cause if it's d-bus you got good chances to track it down | 17:10 |
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| marnanel | As far as I can remember it's triggered by a particular X property on the newly-created window | 17:10 |
| marnanel | though it's been a few months since I looked at it | 17:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no idea, no devel here | 17:11 |
| marnanel | d-bus would have been nice, but I'm pretty sure it isn't | 17:11 |
| marnanel | well, I can write a script that checks for newly-created windows | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | pangalactic ltrace? X-P | 17:12 |
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| lindi- | that's called systemtap :) | 17:12 |
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| marnanel | lindi-: what is, a way to check for newly-created windows? | 17:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/strace#How_to_Trace_All_the_Running_Applications | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | gnhnhnnnhnhnnn | 17:13 |
| marnanel | good grief, no | 17:14 |
| marnanel | I don't want to strace it | 17:14 |
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| marnanel | all I need to do is request property changes on the root window, which will tell me when the new window is created; then I can request the pid of the owner of that window, and I will know what app is putting them up | 17:15 |
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| * marnanel will try this after work and see how it goes | 17:15 | |
| lindi- | marnanel: xtrace might help | 17:15 |
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| lindi- | although I have only used it with one application at a time | 17:15 |
| marnanel | lindi-: thanks | 17:16 |
| GAN900 | Portrait detection is really terrible | 17:16 |
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| GAN900 | I hope there's a lock switch in MeeGo. | 17:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | portrait detection? ;-D | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | camera autotrigger on smile? X-P | 17:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: if you're talking bout orientation sensing via g-meter, it's probably fubar in meego atm | 17:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as g-meter doesn't even have a proper kernel driver | 17:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the meego one is for externally powered joysticks :-P | 17:19 |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: Afaik it works in the meego snapshots. | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 17:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure it 'works' - by sensorfw polling g-meter via I2C all the time(!) at a sampling rate of 20Hz or something similarly insane | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | you for sure don't want to do this on a battery powered modile device | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mentioned it in #meego-arm - answer: "is it upstream?" as if I knew or as if it even mattered | 17:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hell, I'm checking and side-to-side reading LIS302 drivers for >2h, and all I earn is a "is it upstream" :-S | 17:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, that's meego | 17:25 |
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| Stskeeps | no, actually, we said "send patches", but sure.. | 17:26 |
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| Stskeeps | patches should be developed in upstream, not in a distro | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | I couldn't care less | 17:28 |
| Stskeeps | fair enough | 17:29 |
| X-Fade | Maybe that is the real problem though :) | 17:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm also not interested in 'the real problems of meego" - I just reviewed a meego driver and found it completely broken and pointed to a better implementation. I'm neither the developer nor maintainer of any of the drivers or distros | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | nor are we | 17:30 |
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| pyther | Hi | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, thought you were actively developing meego | 17:31 |
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| Stskeeps | we don't develop the entire kernel. | 17:31 |
| pyther | Is there any way to trouble shoot why alarmd doesn't switch profiles sometimes? | 17:31 |
| lcuk | anyone with knowledge of how other systems/distros/gorups manage accelerometer | 17:31 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, you have mentioned the mode sensing callback/interupt thing before | 17:31 |
| lcuk | do other drivers make use of it? | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i'm really tired of your negativity. i continously extend a hand to help you or make you able to do things, but you return with paranoia, grumpiness, generalization and insults. it blocks your own work and makes it difficult to defend your behaviour and attitudes. so, i'm done talking to you. | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | maemo driver does | 17:32 |
| lcuk | or do most places use the polling mechanism | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: what in >><DocScrutinizer> ooh, thought you were actively developing meego<< is an insult or negative, in your world? | 17:33 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, which driver needs updating/changing/listening for for this interrupt? | 17:34 |
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| lcuk | get practical | 17:34 |
| lcuk | i dont think anywhere uses it | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | lis302dl | 17:34 |
| lcuk | is it something skills are available to modify | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | general attitude and that wasn't it. if you had just had a sane outlook on the world instead of your shitty attitude, you'd have been much further. | 17:35 |
| lcuk | or does it need a whole new low->high level full interface building? | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | and a shame to watch a good talent go to waste on stupid attitude. | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | in maemo, in meego it's called lis3dl02x or something like that | 17:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: the maemo implementation is mostly sane and comprehensive, while the upstream driver used in meego is 'crippled' and not optimized for power conservation | 17:38 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, no | 17:38 |
| lcuk | maemo polls too | 17:38 |
| lcuk | (at least I think it does) | 17:39 |
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| lcuk | if the chip has this cool interuppt callback on motion it would be great | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: as I'm not familiar with all the git stacking and whatnot, I can't comment on anything except the names are slightly different and the maemo one is better | 17:40 |
| lcuk | but it would need threading through from the low to high level | 17:40 |
| X-Fade | afaik it has interrupts on thresholds. | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: exactly | 17:40 |
| RST38h | <yawn> | 17:40 |
| X-Fade | Still needs to be powered up though ;) | 17:40 |
| lcuk | yeah which would be really good for power consumption | 17:40 |
| lcuk | bah! | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, sure | 17:41 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, starting and stopping my computer costs more than idling it :P | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: lis302 eats some uA on active standby | 17:41 |
| lcuk | and waking it up and sleeping it many times a second doesnt? | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | considerably less than breathing light average | 17:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: (threading thru from low to high) aiui a sane implementation like the maemo one is using uevents | 17:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you're setting threshold in /sys and get a notification when a orientation change is detected | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | otherwise just idle instead of poll@40Hz | 17:46 |
| lcuk | great | 17:47 |
| lcuk | so, how do we relay this information to the required people | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno | 17:47 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | hi, where can I find some informations on the DSPs? I'd like to decode high res videos(not within maemo but on my n900, another distro is used) what is better for decoding videos? the DSP or the CPU+NEON+mplayer | 17:47 |
| lcuk | so they can make an attempt at building this module and testing its power drain for reals | 17:47 |
| lcuk | GNUtoo|laptop, idk, speak with ti perhaps | 17:48 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ah? | 17:48 |
| lcuk | or test it yourself | 17:48 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ok | 17:48 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | then how do I use the DSP? | 17:48 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I need gstreamer right? | 17:48 |
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| lcuk | technically no | 17:49 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | ok | 17:50 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, any idea if the interface is available o nthe maemo driver already? | 17:50 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I was said mplayer couldn't use the DSP | 17:50 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | maybe I should ask in #oe or #beagle | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: just checking | 17:51 |
| lcuk | GNUtoo|laptop, install mplayer and see | 17:51 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | lcuk, stock big buck bunny 420p plays well | 17:51 |
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| lcuk | then your life is complete already? | 17:51 |
| X-Fade | GNUtoo|laptop: Sure, 720 does too. | 17:51 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | really? | 17:52 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | wow | 17:52 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I'll try | 17:52 |
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| lcuk | GNUtoo|laptop, out of academic interest which distro are you using where thats not working? | 17:53 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | **** Your system is too SLOW to play this! **** | 17:54 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | SHR | 17:54 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | it's very new | 17:54 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | we got it booting some days ago | 17:54 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | so... | 17:54 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | it's based on angstrom | 17:54 |
| lcuk | shr looks sweet | 17:54 |
| lcuk | yeah i have seen it :) | 17:54 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | mplayer big_buck_bunny_720p_surround.avi -vo x11 -ao alsa | 17:55 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | that's what I used | 17:55 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | should I try xv | 17:55 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ? | 17:55 |
| lcuk | yes :) | 17:55 |
| X-Fade | Why would you ever use x11? | 17:55 |
| lcuk | try anything | 17:55 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | because of that: | 17:55 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | Source image dimensions are too high: 1280x720 (maximum is 800x480) | 17:55 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I'll try that: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=26538 | 17:56 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, so why would you want to have 720p on a 480p screen? | 17:56 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | same issue | 17:56 |
| X-Fade | That won't make it any better :) | 17:56 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I know | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/* | 17:56 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | use case: | 17:56 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | you've got a 720p only version on the net | 17:57 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | or: | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/i2c/chips/lis302dl.c | 17:57 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | you've got a laptop and you don't want to transcode | 17:57 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | both uses cases are valid | 17:57 |
| X-Fade | Anyway, omap3 can play 720p with proper hardware accel. | 17:57 |
| MNZ | GNUtoo|laptop, conclusion I have reach re:DSP is as a general rule of thumb, it's a pain | 17:58 |
| * GNUtoo|laptop wonder if it's a legend, because koen used no sound and similar settings | 17:58 | |
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| rmrfchik | hmm, htc announces desire Z with keyboard | 17:58 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | DSP can do 720p? | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | hi GNUtoo|laptop | 17:58 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | hi DocScrutinizer | 17:58 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | DocScrutinizer, btw why were you angry for the battery script? | 17:58 |
| * GNUtoo|laptop didn't understood | 17:58 | |
| MNZ | GNUtoo|laptop, google gst-dsp | 17:58 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ok | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | GNUtoo|laptop: doesn't belong here | 17:59 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | wow | 17:59 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | http://code.google.com/p/gst-dsp/ | 17:59 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ok | 17:59 |
| RST38h | "...the name "S60" never passed a speaker's lips once. For years, executives would never say the word "Symbian". Now "S60" has been airbrushed from history. Like N-Gage, it never existed at all.: | 17:59 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | what do you mean DocScrutinizer | 17:59 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | doens't belong in #maemo ? | 17:59 |
| Surfa | RST38h, not really comparable | 18:00 |
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| MNZ | Any ideas which one of the mapping apps can be preloaded with maps (besides ovi) | 18:03 |
| nidO | mappero | 18:03 |
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| nidO | and sygic | 18:03 |
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| nidO | though if you want comprehensive maps from mappero you're going to need a boatload of disk space | 18:03 |
| MNZ | mappero was nice, last time I used it. But all the kings googling and all the kings men couldn't preload mappero again :/ | 18:05 |
| alterego | Quite like the look of the E7 | 18:05 |
| nidO | open mappero > options > maps > manage maps | 18:06 |
| nidO | follow prompts to download maps using various options | 18:06 |
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| mrmoku | DocScrutinizer: do you know in what state the meego kernel for n900 is? | 18:27 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | MNZ, nice I've compiled it | 18:27 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | MNZ, now how can I use it? | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | mrmoku: nope, not really | 18:28 |
| mrmoku | k | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | mrmoku: /join #meego-arm | 18:28 |
| mrmoku | should have asked there, yes :P | 18:28 |
| MNZ | GNUtoo|laptop, sorry but I'm clueless. You will need the dspbridge kernel module though, don't think that's part of gst-dsp | 18:30 |
| MNZ | My guess is load dspbridge, then test using gst-launch | 18:30 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | ok | 18:30 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | no way to have that work automatically like: | 18:31 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | launch totem | 18:31 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | and it just works | 18:31 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ? | 18:31 |
| MNZ | you are going to have to use the gst sinks it provides for decoding, how each player deals with creating a gst pipeline (is there a system default, etc) is another story, one that I don't know | 18:32 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ok | 18:33 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I'll try gst-launch then | 18:33 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | felipec wrote it | 18:33 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | but he's not there currently | 18:33 |
| MNZ | yep, and he just so happens to be a #maemo idler :D | 18:34 |
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| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: ping | 18:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | pong | 18:35 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | no idea of gst-launch commandline args | 18:35 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ? | 18:35 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I pushed the .so in the right location | 18:35 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | but then? | 18:35 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I'll try decodebin2 | 18:35 |
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| MNZ | you'll want "gst-launch filesrc location="/path/to/file" ! demuxer ! gst-dsp-decoder ! sink" | 18:37 |
| MNZ | where demuxer and gst-dsp-decoder are left as an exercise for the reader | 18:37 |
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| frenchy | ok im gonna try and get help one more time before selling my n810 for parts, im pretty sure i bricked it hardcore, can anyone help? | 18:45 |
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| MNZ | what did you do? | 18:46 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | ok found that: | 18:48 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard/gst-dsp | 18:48 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | thanks MNZ | 18:49 |
| frenchy | tried installing mamona and now i dont even get the nokia screen, its just dead | 18:49 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | the issue was that: | 18:49 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | gst-dsp-decoder | 18:49 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I didn't know what one to use | 18:49 |
| lcuk | i hope thats not a generic problem | 18:49 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I'll try the elinux howto | 18:49 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | (I know a bit gstreamer) | 18:49 |
| lcuk | frenchy, I assume you did discuss this with the manoma guys | 18:50 |
| lcuk | and ask if anyone else has experienced this? | 18:50 |
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| frenchy | nobody answered in that channel, it seems pretty dead | 18:50 |
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| lcuk | perhaps they tried installing manoma in the channel itself | 18:51 |
| tripzero | zing! | 18:51 |
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| frenchy | this is like the 3rd time ive been in here about this, i just figured id try one more time before i sell it for parts | 18:51 |
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| lcuk | well did you try it with a known charged battery? | 18:51 |
| lcuk | as suggested | 18:51 |
| wazd_n900 | hello again people :) | 18:51 |
| lcuk | because if its totally not doing anything | 18:52 |
| frenchy | lcuk, yeah it was charged | 18:52 |
| lcuk | i know it *was* charged | 18:52 |
| lcuk | but battery meters lie and IDK what sort of chrging stuff it has | 18:52 |
| lcuk | and if it flattens battery etc | 18:52 |
| lcuk | so, like I said, have you tried it with a known charged valid battery? | 18:52 |
| frenchy | lcuk, well even if the battery is dead now shouldnt it at least do something when i plug it into the charger? | 18:53 |
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| lcuk | IDK - you removed the OS and put something else on | 18:53 |
| frenchy | lcuk, i also tested the battery with a multimeter and it seems alive | 18:53 |
| lcuk | yeah | 18:53 |
| lcuk | i have 9volt batteries that wont run anything | 18:53 |
| lcuk | but i still get a shock on my tongue | 18:53 |
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| lcuk | so I am guessing the answer to my question is "no" | 18:53 |
| Nandan | can some one guide me to compile latest ffmpeg from svn for N900 | 18:54 |
| lcuk | i suggest if you know someone with an n810 to borrow their working battery for a minute | 18:54 |
| frenchy | lcuk, well i have a new battery coming in the mail that i will test when it gets here but i am afraid i fried the bootloader and from what ive read it need s acold flash | 18:54 |
| frenchy | which is beyond my expertise | 18:54 |
| lcuk | well until you see some signs of life you dont know what it is | 18:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | frenchy: a silly question: what *is* mamona? | 18:55 |
| frenchy | lcuk, i dont know anyone with one, | 18:55 |
| frenchy | DocScrutinizer, just another distro | 18:55 |
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| wazd_n900 | dockane: distro from INdT | 18:55 |
| wazd_n900 | oops | 18:55 |
| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, apparently, something openembedded based, http://dev.openbossa.org/trac/mamona/ | 18:56 |
| RST38h | wazzzd | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | thnaks everybody | 18:56 |
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| frenchy | im looking for contact info right now | 18:57 |
| frenchy | for mamon | 18:58 |
| frenchy | a | 18:58 |
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| frenchy | everytime i talk to people about this they say its impossible to completely brick this device, has anyone heard of any accounts where the bootloader got hosed and killed the device? | 18:58 |
| jacekowski | there is hardcoded bootloader in rom of cpu | 18:59 |
| SpeedEvil | This does not mean that it is impossible to brick from a consumer point of view. | 18:59 |
| jacekowski | that can't be hosed | 18:59 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | abuot mamona: | 19:00 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | #mamona | 19:00 |
| SpeedEvil | The hardcoded bootloader as I understand it cannot be used to flash over USB | 19:00 |
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| Gh0sty | i guess an EMP could hose the bootloader :p | 19:00 |
| timeless | rm, it looks like modest didn't eat the email i moved | 19:00 |
| frenchy | jacekowski, ok so is it possible to brick it in such a way that the only way to recover is a cold flash? | 19:00 |
| SpeedEvil | frenchy: Above comments relate to n900. Sorry - just scrolled up | 19:01 |
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| timeless | instead it lied to me about where it put it... | 19:01 |
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| tripzero | blast those EMPs!! | 19:02 |
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| lcuk | timeless, it caught up then? | 19:04 |
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| timeless | no | 19:04 |
| timeless | i had tried to move one message | 19:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | raster: moinmoin :-) | 19:05 |
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| timeless | there's a folder picker, and you can go 'up' to the device level (above account) and create a folder. the folder ended up insideth | 19:06 |
| timeless | the account | 19:06 |
| timeless | this vkb sucks | 19:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | frenchy: jacekowski claims he did coldflash on N900 via USB. For N810 situation is unclear | 19:09 |
| pyther | Every now and then alarmed fails to switch my profile. Is there anyway to troubleshoot this? | 19:09 |
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| frenchy | DocScrutinizer, Yeah ive seen the n900 coldflash but cant find any info on the n810 doing it | 19:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pyther: hmm, alarmed logs? running alarmed from terminal, or even check syslog etc for alarmd (!=alarmed) logs? | 19:10 |
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| timeless | how do people find events in a city? | 19:11 |
| pyther | DocScrutinizer: how can I view syslog messages? | 19:11 |
| SpeedEvil | pyther: apt-get install syslogd | 19:11 |
| SpeedEvil | pyther: but it's broken | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | cat /var/log/syslog | 19:12 |
| SpeedEvil | pyther: You need to - after boot - killall -HUP syslodg | 19:12 |
| SpeedEvil | gd | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | depending on whether or not you installed syslogd, you'll either look into /var/log/* or do a dmesg | 19:12 |
| SpeedEvil | as it puts the syslog in /home/user/var/log/syslogd | 19:12 |
| SpeedEvil | and it puts it there before /home is mounted | 19:12 |
| pyther | ok where can I find the alarmed log? | 19:13 |
| timeless | it's always been sysklogd for me.. | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ouch | 19:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pyther: no idea. ask Shapeshifter | 19:13 |
| SpeedEvil | At least - I assume that's the iussue - I haven't investigated beyond killall -HuP fixing it | 19:13 |
| pyther | hmm. I better not install syslog because I'll likey forget I'll have to do that | 19:14 |
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| raster | DocScrutinizer: docz | 19:16 |
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| ShadowJK | new sygic10 is pretty nice | 19:25 |
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| ShadowJK | driving while listening to streaming internet radio with fm transmitter, the music pauses and voice directions come through car speakers, and then music resumes :) | 19:26 |
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| ShadowJK | it's focus-stealing :( but not self-topping luckily.. still.. can't type outside sygic maps when it's running, and the keep-display-lit stopped working somewhere during the trip, possibly after lots of switching back and forth to media player.. | 19:28 |
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| alterego | Wow, the preorders for the N8 are apparently the best they've ever had for a device. | 19:29 |
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| alterego | I have to admit, I'm sort of tempted :D | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | hope they don't fuck it up like n900 was.. | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:30 |
| ShadowJK | lol yeah that was my first thought too | 19:30 |
| alterego | The N900 was just too well advertised for its' own good .. | 19:30 |
| alterego | I hope the N8 doesn't fail like the N97 and N96 :) | 19:31 |
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| * satmd waves | 19:31 | |
| ShadowJK | N96 was fully deserved | 19:31 |
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| ShadowJK | it was like N95 with enough RAM to actually boot the os successfully, aka N95-8G | 19:32 |
| alterego | I got the N96 because on paper it looked like just an updated N95 8G | 19:32 |
| ShadowJK | except 200€ more expensive | 19:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | and a crappier slider | 19:32 |
| ShadowJK | oh it looked exactly like N95-8 on paper to me :) | 19:32 |
| alterego | Except it has 16G and a micro SD | 19:32 |
| RST38h | N95 was a low-res brick | 19:33 |
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| alterego | Oh, and DVB-H | 19:33 |
| RST38h | N96 was another ow-res brick | 19:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | the N95 was nice tbh | 19:33 |
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| alterego | The N95 8 was the best phone I've ever had. | 19:33 |
| RST38h | No idea why everyone is still considering them "good" | 19:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | I still think it's the best nokia phone | 19:33 |
| alterego | I'd still gladly use it today. | 19:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | I still do | 19:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | sometimes to charge my N900's battery | 19:34 |
| RST38h | E70 has been the best S60 phone ever | 19:34 |
| steinex | my | 19:34 |
| ShadowJK | if I had to use a symbian phone I'd go back to N810 :) | 19:34 |
| RST38h | Actually looked and felt like a PHONE. Had the best keyboard ever. | 19:34 |
| steinex | anyone here from germany that uses supl.google.com instead of supl.nokia.com? | 19:34 |
| nidO | I really really liked my e90 | 19:34 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 19:34 |
| steinex | is it better / does it work at all? | 19:34 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, actually | 19:34 |
| ShadowJK | i thought supl.google.com was dead | 19:34 |
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| steinex | mh | 19:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | doesn't the N96 lack the gfx chip the N95 had? | 19:35 |
| steinex | actually i'm looking for an alternative to supl.nokia.com in germany because it doesn't work that well... | 19:35 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: erm, no, it has the same chip | 19:35 |
| steinex | any tips? | 19:35 |
| alterego | steinex: supl.google.com | 19:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, sure? | 19:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | wasn't it removed | 19:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | i remember it was | 19:35 |
| alterego | Maybe I'm wrong, I thought it was the same. | 19:35 |
| alterego | Could have been removed in the N97? | 19:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | the N96 was also dual core afaik | 19:36 |
| ShadowJK | i think they only released drivers for n95 | 19:36 |
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| MohammadAG51 | not sure, but i remember the N96 lacked something huge the N95 had | 19:36 |
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| MohammadAG51 | the N95 was sold with the accelerometer hidden xD | 19:36 |
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| MohammadAG51 | came to us all as a surprise | 19:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | V20 i think | 19:36 |
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| alterego | Hrm | 19:38 |
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| Nandan | hello | 19:41 |
| Nandan | can some one guide me to compile latest ffmpeg from svn for N900 | 19:41 |
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| alterego | Nandan: that way -> http://maemo.org/development/ | 19:43 |
| Nandan | thanks | 19:44 |
| alterego | np | 19:44 |
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| steinex | supl.google.com doesn't seem to work | 19:44 |
| steinex | no idea why. | 19:44 |
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| alterego | Oh, maybe that's not it. | 19:45 |
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| Jaffa | re | 19:52 |
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| Jaffa | FWIW, Stphen Elop - the new CEO - seemed nice and enthusiastic in his few words. | 19:53 |
| RST38h | Short question: Is FrozenBubble2 optified?n | 19:54 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Don't they all... | 19:54 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: OPK never did! | 19:54 |
| GAN900 | alterego, by a Symbian device? | 19:55 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Ah, but he was a Finn! | 19:55 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: On the other hand, I fully subscribe to the Arkenoi's analysis of the situation :) | 19:55 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: So are most of the Nokia exec team :) | 19:56 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: Oh? | 19:56 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: "Another martyr getting a handle-less briefcase labelled 'dumbshit Symbian' and being forced to carry it on and never EVER throw it away." | 19:57 |
| alterego | GAN900: do you mean "buy a symbian device"? | 19:58 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: "Which, lacking balls, he is going to carry on and on and on" | 19:58 |
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| GAN900 | alterego, in respone to "sort of tempted". | 19:59 |
| GAN900 | alterego, don't try to confuse me! | 19:59 |
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| alterego | GAN900: yes, I'm sort of tempted to buy the N8 | 20:01 |
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| steinex | any hint about supl.google.com? | 20:11 |
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| steinex | i'm clueless :/ | 20:11 |
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| ilius | there was a package that could change default media player when tap on a media file in file manager | 20:16 |
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| ilius | but i cant remind the package name | 20:16 |
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| pyther | Is there a gps speed monitor that does NOT require an internet connection? | 20:18 |
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| dneary | Hey ho | 20:23 |
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| jacekowski | pyther: yes | 20:24 |
| jacekowski | pyther: any of them | 20:25 |
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| jacekowski | pyther: just click no when it asks | 20:25 |
| jacekowski | pyther: it will take a lot longer to get a lock | 20:25 |
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| pyther | jacekowski: ok, I wonder if it forgets the gps data when I reboot | 20:26 |
| jacekowski | yep | 20:26 |
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| jacekowski | basicaly it will take ages to get a lock without internet | 20:26 |
| pyther | ok | 20:27 |
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| satmd | not true | 20:27 |
| RST38h | UK ISPs To Pay 25% of Copyright Enforcement Costs <== ahahaha | 20:27 |
| pyther | now it would be also nice to prevent jspeed from asking every 30 minutes, but I can live with that | 20:27 |
| satmd | but it will take 20 secs - 20 minutes | 20:27 |
| pyther | I let it sit for over 15 minutes without getting a lock | 20:28 |
| jacekowski | well, it has to be outside | 20:28 |
| jacekowski | with clear view | 20:28 |
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| pyther | we were moving | 20:28 |
| pyther | that was probably the problem | 20:28 |
| jacekowski | that too | 20:29 |
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| johnsQ | Hi | 20:41 |
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| dneary | Hi | 20:46 |
| dneary | bergie, Ping? | 20:46 |
| dneary | X-Fade, Ping? | 20:46 |
| * timeless finds friendly wifi at a bar-cafe | 20:46 | |
| timeless | hi dneary | 20:46 |
| bergie | dneary: pong | 20:47 |
| * timeless waves from edinburgh | 20:47 | |
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| dneary | bergie, I'm trying to send out election tokens for the election that's starting in 6 hours | 20:47 |
| trumee | timeless: back at work? | 20:47 |
| dneary | bergie, And test.maemo.org doesn't have an smtp server | 20:48 |
| bergie | ah, fun | 20:48 |
| dneary | Can you remember how we sent them out last time? | 20:48 |
| timeless | no! | 20:48 |
| trumee | timeless: Nokia guys seem to have long holiday! | 20:48 |
| bergie | dneary: from "maintenance" would sound logical | 20:48 |
| timeless | three another two plus weeks of vacation | 20:48 |
| timeless | 4 weeks | 20:49 |
| timeless | it's standard for europe | 20:49 |
| trumee | timeless: wowwwwwwwwwwwww! | 20:49 |
| dneary | trumee, In France, 5 weeks is normal. 6 weeks is not unusual. For the year, that is | 20:49 |
| dneary | trumee, People tend to take 3 weeks during the Summer, 1 week for skiing, a few days for Christmas, a few days for Easter, a few days around the end of October | 20:50 |
| dneary | And the rest spread over the year | 20:50 |
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| dneary | bergie, I don't think I have access to maintenance | 20:50 |
| dneary | bergie, But I'm sure I was the one who sent the emails last time | 20:51 |
| trumee | dneary: and for the rest frenchies go on a strike :p | 20:51 |
| dneary | trumee, Nah, that's a myth | 20:51 |
| dneary | There's generally only about 5 or 6 big strikes a year | 20:51 |
| timeless | yeah, in finland it's 4summer weeks (preferably as a lump) and one winter | 20:51 |
| dneary | And they're generally not very popular | 20:51 |
| bergie | dneary: hmm, then you've probably been given access to some of the other ones. maemo1/2? | 20:51 |
| dneary | bergie, I *thought* I'd sent them from test | 20:52 |
| bergie | well, theoretically the ISP could've removed SMTP service from that box | 20:52 |
| dneary | Yup, I did... I see a nohup.out from Mar 23 | 20:52 |
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| dneary | Let me just see if there was something tricky going on | 20:53 |
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| dneary | Yeah - I think Bergie installed exim for me last year | 20:53 |
| dneary | It must not be started | 20:53 |
| dneary | And I don't believe I'm an sudoer on that machine | 20:54 |
| bergie | dneary: wasn't me, I don't have sudo on that box either | 20:55 |
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| dneary | bleep | 20:55 |
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| lcuk | hey bergie dneary \o | 21:00 |
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| dneary | hi lcuk | 21:01 |
| dneary | "too drunk to lcuk" | 21:01 |
| * timeless smiles, vbox people fixed a bug i filed | 21:02 | |
| * lcuk stonecoldsober | 21:02 | |
| lcuk | cold being operative, its brass monkeys here today | 21:02 |
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| lcuk | dneary, did the meeting get arranged then? | 21:03 |
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| DangerMaus | hehe | 21:03 |
| dneary | lcuk, yes, tomorrow, noon utc | 21:04 |
| lcuk | reasonable enough | 21:04 |
| DangerMaus | grrr.. hmmm my eeepc powerbi=rick came back ti life today...hmmm | 21:04 |
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| CreamyG | lol that's kinda weird, i thought it made a pop | 21:05 |
| DangerMaus | it did | 21:05 |
| DangerMaus | or something did | 21:05 |
| CreamyG | well it's probably still safer than those fake batteries | 21:05 |
| DangerMaus | unless it just had a lowd thermal cut out | 21:05 |
| DangerMaus | loud | 21:06 |
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| DangerMaus | fake batteries? | 21:06 |
| CreamyG | yesterday there was some guy in there wanting to buy fake n900 batteries from ebay | 21:06 |
| CreamyG | didn't belive there could be any danger | 21:06 |
| DangerMaus | lol | 21:06 |
| DangerMaus | boom! | 21:06 |
| * crashanddie waves at the doomsdayers | 21:07 | |
| CreamyG | yeah... it's pretty rare, but nokia and other phone manuafcturers always claim that the only batteries that blow up are the fake ones | 21:07 |
| DangerMaus | my buddie hadd a samsung go thermal in his back pocket lastweek | 21:07 |
| crashanddie | you do realise that plenty of people have bought cheapo batteries off ebay and had no issues with them? | 21:07 |
| crashanddie | (except for the fact they hold a charge for about 20.3 seconds) | 21:07 |
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| DangerMaus | haha | 21:07 |
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| lcuk | dneary, was there any further discussion about the maemo.org stuff? I knoew bergie is giving a talk about this very subject in a couple of weeks | 21:08 |
| dneary | lcuk, Help me out... which stuff? And which talk? | 21:08 |
| DangerMaus | i got prob fake batteries in my motorola and it charges normaly and lasts a few days | 21:08 |
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| CreamyG | yes lol, i just feel the need to warn people that they aren't safe since li-ion batteries are unstable to begin with, any manufacturing defect or parts they skipped to save a penny will increase the chance of violent failure | 21:09 |
| DangerMaus | i should pack up and go home | 21:09 |
| CreamyG | i | 21:09 |
| lcuk | dneary, the maemo.org app store stuff I tried to bring up at last meeting and then sent over the notes for about the potential for people to actually work on it in this sprint | 21:09 |
| dneary | bergie, Am I stuck, then? | 21:09 |
| CreamyG | i'd still buy them myself, just refuse to recommend it | 21:09 |
| lcuk | http://opensolutions.coss.fi/ohjelma.html | 21:09 |
| dneary | lcuk, Ah - did you ever get any answer from X-Fade? | 21:10 |
| lcuk | bergie has a talk scheduled about it here | 21:10 |
| lcuk | no | 21:10 |
| GAN900 | dneary, clearly a conspiracy to end the council. | 21:10 |
| * dneary no speaky fiinjhliish | 21:10 | |
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| lcuk | Maemo.org Downloads - Building an open community "app store" | 21:10 |
| lcuk | - Crowdsourced quality assurance and development of comprehensive web services using an open source model. | 21:10 |
| lcuk | Henri Bergius, | 21:10 |
| lcuk | Consultant Partner, CEO, | 21:10 |
| lcuk | Nemein Oy | 21:10 |
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| lcuk | English | 21:10 |
| timeless | 22. when making a time input widget that supports 12hour format and lists am or pm, do *not* hide changing am/pm behind a menu (!) (this might be an s40 feature) | 21:11 |
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| timeless | sp3000: about:plugins fix no-workee? :( | 21:12 |
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| timeless | sp3000: wfm | 21:13 |
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| dneary | lcuk, I remember opening that page and saying "I can't understand this" | 21:13 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: Unicorn Bacon to be included in next release of Firefox! http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1788284&cid=33588874 | 21:13 |
| dneary | I missed the English translation | 21:13 |
| kerio | BACON | 21:13 |
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| crashanddie | kerio: UNICORN BACON | 21:13 |
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| lcuk | thats not english translation, its on the page I just linked to | 21:14 |
| kerio | even more awesome | 21:14 |
| lcuk | either way | 21:14 |
| dneary | lcuk, Interesting, in that context, to see the MeeGo compliance discussion | 21:14 |
| lcuk | this has nothing to do with meego? | 21:15 |
| dneary | lcuk, Yeah - a bit far down the page (and, unless I'm mistaken, the first entry on the page in English) for me to browse to | 21:15 |
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| lcuk | bergie retweeted it a few days ago | 21:15 |
| dneary | lcuk, I'm just saying: the MeeGo discussion is showing up a couple of things which people see as true for an app store unquestioningly | 21:16 |
| lcuk | but anyway, can it be brought up in the meeting - since obviously theres "something" happening | 21:16 |
| dneary | lcuk, Please do - like I said, Henri & X-Fade are the guys to talk to | 21:16 |
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| lcuk | well bergie just vanished | 21:17 |
| bergie | lcuk: still here | 21:17 |
| lcuk | :D | 21:17 |
| bergie | just went out for a smoke :-) | 21:17 |
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| bergie | dneary: unfortunately we need someone with better access | 21:18 |
| lcuk | bergie, your talk, is it just field notes, or would you want to follow up with an implementation? | 21:18 |
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| RST38h | 21:18 | |
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| lcuk | i will fwd you the mail I sent to dneary and X-Fade | 21:18 |
| lcuk | it has some thoughts about the device end | 21:18 |
| lcuk | and how we have some of the pieces already in place | 21:19 |
| bergie | lcuk: great, thanks | 21:19 |
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| lcuk | bergie, mail addr? | 21:20 |
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| timeless | um | 21:20 |
| timeless | anyone hear of an "Indian" pr1.2 image? | 21:21 |
| bergie | lcuk: bergie@nemein.com | 21:21 |
| timeless | further, anyone have the ability to get and flash it? | 21:21 |
| lcuk | timeless, hm similar to the HK I guess? | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: skypeless | 21:21 |
| timeless | stskeeps: ? | 21:22 |
| * timeless turns on skype | 21:22 | |
| lcuk | timeless, i just asked it might be tomorrow before I get a response though | 21:22 |
| timeless | sorry, i'm mostly squating for power to my starving phone | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: indian is without skype, afaik | 21:23 |
| lcuk | k bergie mailed | 21:24 |
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| timeless | stskeeps: sweet | 21:24 |
| timeless | lcuk: are you doing bugs.maemo triage? | 21:24 |
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| lcuk | no i am drinking a brew atm | 21:25 |
| timeless | hi mlfoster | 21:25 |
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| lcuk | bergie, shall have to sync smoking times again soon \o | 21:28 |
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| PhonicUK | hey all, quick question | 21:34 |
| PhonicUK | why is apt-get wanting to remove mp-freemantle-203-pr in order to install libsdl-mixer1.2 ? | 21:35 |
| timeless | presumably there's a conflict | 21:36 |
| timeless | it's probably trying to update a package that's version pinned | 21:36 |
| PhonicUK | I understand that mp-fremantle-203-pr is just a metapackage, does this mean its safe to remove? | 21:36 |
| PhonicUK | or should I hold fire on updating sdl mixer? | 21:36 |
| timeless | it's a version pinning meta package | 21:37 |
| kerio | PhonicUK: it's just a metapackage | 21:37 |
| PhonicUK | okay | 21:37 |
| kerio | and it's not very likely that we'll have a new PR anyway | 21:37 |
| timeless | which iiuc is used to manage system updates | 21:37 |
| kerio | and you can just reflash | 21:37 |
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| timeless | kerio: err | 21:37 |
| timeless | not that i can actually promise such a thing | 21:37 |
| PhonicUK | so is it okay to remove it and let it update everything to later versions? | 21:37 |
| kerio | PhonicUK: yeah | 21:38 |
| timeless | but we're definitely updating ota | 21:38 |
| kerio | but you'll break SSU | 21:38 |
| timeless | and iirc we did announce plans for another | 21:38 |
| PhonicUK | SSU? | 21:38 |
| kerio | so you'll probably have to reflash in order to update the OS | 21:38 |
| PhonicUK | ah | 21:38 |
| kerio | which is good anyway | 21:38 |
| PhonicUK | I reflash anyway for new PR releases | 21:38 |
| timeless | if you always reflash, then killing that package is fine | 21:39 |
| PhonicUK | okay | 21:39 |
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| kerio | i thought there was a non-version-pinning... version | 21:39 |
| kerio | of metapackages | 21:39 |
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| timeless | kerio: i'm not quite sure how that'd work | 21:39 |
| kerio | \o/ | 21:40 |
| kerio | no idea | 21:40 |
| timeless | the set of packages we're going to ship will change | 21:40 |
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| timeless | thus a package that merely says "take the latest of this list of packages" | 21:40 |
| timeless | *will* do the *wrong* thing TM | 21:40 |
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| kerio | don't you mean â„¢ | 21:42 |
| * Noobmonk3y blinks | 21:42 | |
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| kerio | UTF8 MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SUPPORT IT | 21:42 |
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| * Noobmonk3y blonks | 21:42 | |
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| kerio | DESCRIBE WHAT SNOWMAN (U+2603) LOOKS LIKE | 21:42 |
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| crashanddie | kerio: that's the second caps warning you're triggering | 21:43 |
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| RST38h | Ah just kill him off... | 21:44 |
| kerio | that's yelled in the movie ._. | 21:44 |
| * Noobmonk3y prods lcuk, MohammadAG51 , frals , evening alls :) | 21:44 | |
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| mikhas | ☃ | 21:45 |
| lcuk | dneary, bergie heres minutes from the last meeting when I proposed it (but jaffa said was impractical) | 21:46 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/maemo-meeting-2010-05-17.html#t15:31 | 21:46 |
| kerio | i'm still baffled by the existance of a snowman glyph in unicode btw | 21:46 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lcuk, the shopping basket idea? he didnt ignore it, just went ok? | 21:46 |
| Noobmonk3y | good idea though :P | 21:47 |
| soltys | morning | 21:47 |
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| soltys | is there any last.fm scrobbler for the default music playr ? | 21:47 |
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| Noobmonk3y | kerio.... dont be baffled just agree and carry on :P | 21:47 |
| soltys | s/yr/er/ | 21:47 |
| infobot | soltys meant: is there any last.fm scrobbler for the default music plaer ? | 21:47 |
| soltys | damn | 21:47 |
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| soltys | a/aer/ayer/ | 21:48 |
| soltys | it's not my day | 21:48 |
| kerio | soltys: syntax error ;) | 21:48 |
| soltys | ;) | 21:48 |
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| timeless | you can only s/// the last non s/// line anyway | 21:49 |
| timeless | so your curse would have foiled you | 21:49 |
| * timeless leaves | 21:49 | |
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| soltys | timeless: i know that.. ;) | 21:50 |
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| MNZ | aaaand time for a trip to zzzland | 21:55 |
| MNZ | so long folks! | 21:55 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | hi, how do I boot my own kernel? | 22:00 |
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| crashanddie | spit it out, kick it | 22:03 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | oops I forgott the details | 22:08 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | sorry(I'm very tired) | 22:08 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | so... | 22:08 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I tried multiboot | 22:08 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | and it say that it didn't found the kenrel | 22:08 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I've named the entry and the kernel after uname -r | 22:09 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | vmlinuz-$(uname -r) for the kenrel image in /boot/multiboot/ | 22:09 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | $(uname -r) beeing the uname -r of the new booted kenrel | 22:09 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I can boot it flashing it directly | 22:09 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | but I'd like multiboot to work | 22:09 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | also I was able to get console with multiboot | 22:10 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | and the kernel was there | 22:10 |
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| roombacat | Same | 22:10 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | roombacat, you've the same issue? | 22:10 |
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| roombacat | too long ago GNUtoo|laptop - you need to find someone with a n900 | 22:16 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ok | 22:17 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | maybe #meego-arm | 22:17 |
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| lcuk | ahem | 22:23 |
| lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62312 | 22:23 |
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| lcuk | announce] swappolube to lubricate your gui | 22:23 |
| lcuk | up for testing | 22:23 |
| lcuk | its a little set of tweaks | 22:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | interesting | 22:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | I wonder about an icky hack. | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | You want 1G of swap - say. | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | You want to keep it reasonably non-fragmented. | 22:26 |
| SpeedEvil | so, you setup 10 swapfiles of 100M each, and then when you detect that one is very fragmented, you swapoff it | 22:26 |
| SpeedEvil | s/10/15/ | 22:26 |
| infobot | SpeedEvil meant: so, you setup 15 swapfiles of 100M each, and then when you detect that one is very fragmented, you swapoff it | 22:26 |
| SpeedEvil | and wind up page_cluster | 22:27 |
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| crashanddie | I thought fragmentation was a non-issue on flash? | 22:35 |
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| trumee | crashanddie: any luck testing with my pbx? | 22:38 |
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| crashanddie | well, sadly exactly as you predicted | 22:38 |
| trumee | crashanddie: so choppy in a couple of minutes? | 22:39 |
| crashanddie | major cut-outs, and robot voice every now and then, pretty much unusable | 22:39 |
| crashanddie | well, the first drastic quality drop is about 3-4 minutes into the call, so it seems | 22:39 |
| crashanddie | but then the quality remains roughly the same (or as crappy?) | 22:39 |
| crashanddie | I did notice that forcing the screen to remain lit by browsing menus could "wake up" the call though | 22:40 |
| trumee | crashanddie: yes. the only workaround is to Hold Call >Activate call. Then the choppiness goes away for some time | 22:40 |
| crashanddie | so it's some kind of CPU going to sleep mode? | 22:40 |
| crashanddie | s/CPU going to sleep mode/CPU-going-to-sleep-mode issue/ | 22:40 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: so it's some kind of CPU-going-to-sleep-mode issue? | 22:40 |
| trumee | crashanddie: No i dont think it is a cpu issue. rather it is a gstreamer issue | 22:41 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: read fragmentation is pretty much a non-issue. | 22:41 |
| Shapeshifter | ruskie: would you mind rebuilding the urxvt in your repo with perl support? | 22:41 |
| trumee | crashanddie: you run a pbx as well? | 22:41 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: Write fragmentation is. The real 'blocks' on flash are ~130K or so eraseblocks. If you partially write an eraseblock, then the flash has to copy the previous contents over to a new block. | 22:41 |
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| trumee | crashanddie: If you use any desktop sip client or even Nokia N95, call is perfect. | 22:42 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: This can mean performance going from megabytes/s to dozens of kilobytes/s | 22:42 |
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| crashanddie | trumee: yeah, call was fine from my server to yours | 22:43 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: fair enough | 22:43 |
| trumee | crashanddie: what do you mean call was fine, how did you check that? | 22:44 |
| crashanddie | trumee: I'm a developer on a SIP server for corporate hotlines | 22:44 |
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| trumee | crashanddie: ah. Your are the man then. Collabora dev thinks it is a jitter issue in gstreamer | 22:45 |
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| crashanddie | trumee: well, I have access to call stats when calling with my server; amongst other things the rdcp info. Hardly any packet drop from your server nor latency issues | 22:45 |
| crashanddie | rtcp** | 22:45 |
| trumee | crashanddie: if you have any comments could you please add it to bug #10388 | 22:45 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? | 22:45 |
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| trumee | crashanddie: the number you called is actually a remote pjsip server. Your call was like this you<>my freeswitch pbx<>remote pjsip server | 22:47 |
| crashanddie | trumee: and my server is: my desktop phone -> phone line -> audiocode -> my server -> sip to your freeswitch | 22:48 |
| crashanddie | (as opposed to n900 -> freeswitch) | 22:48 |
| trumee | crashanddie: is it possible to check on N900 itself whether there is any latency issues? | 22:49 |
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| crashanddie | I guess I could n900 -> my server to see what is happening, I could also piggyback the call on my server to compare the two outputs | 22:50 |
| crashanddie | as in, I can singleplex myself into a conference where the n900 and your freeswitch are having a chat, and listen to the difference in quality | 22:51 |
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| crashanddie | though that wouldn't be before monday most probably | 22:52 |
| trumee | crashanddie: ah i see. it will be useful. | 22:52 |
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| trumee | crashanddie: if you want i could connect the pjsip server directly to your pbx. that could be an extra test. | 22:52 |
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| crashanddie | or I can play an audiobook on my server directly | 22:53 |
| trumee | crashanddie: audiobook on your server wont be real test since everything will be on the same network. | 22:53 |
| trumee | crashanddie: But your conference call sounds like a good idea | 22:54 |
| trumee | crashanddie: i will keep the server alive and you can test it on Monday. | 22:54 |
| crashanddie | will do | 22:54 |
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| trumee | crashanddie: btw did you test with PSM off? | 22:56 |
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| alterego | Teeheehe, it's star buck! | 23:02 |
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| aep | any idea if there is a wpa_supplicant somwhere for maemo5? i'd like to connect to a wpa encrypted network | 23:12 |
| SpeedEvil | The stock client will do WPA | 23:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Simply setup your passphrase in the UI | 23:13 |
| aep | the GUI can only connect to one network at once | 23:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes. | 23:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Unfortunately there isn't a nice way of connecting to two. | 23:14 |
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| jacekowski | well, it would have to be on same channel | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | and i'm not sure if n900 wifi card can do it anyways | 23:15 |
| aep | umts and wifi at the same time should work | 23:15 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm assuming he's (or she, or it) is meaning phone and wifi | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | yeah | 23:15 |
| SpeedEvil | or they. | 23:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I keep forgetting communal intelligences. | 23:16 |
| aep | heh | 23:16 |
| aep | well, the gui thing doesnt seem to use any tool i know | 23:16 |
| aep | at least none of them are installed | 23:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | It doesn't. | 23:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | icd and wlancond handle connections. | 23:17 |
| aep | well, any manpage somewhere? | 23:18 |
| aep | or should i just ... give up? | 23:18 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 23:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | wlancond is somewhat opensource. | 23:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Who can remind me who was bemoaning this last night. | 23:18 |
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| aep | err well ... doesnt look like this is intended to be _used_ | 23:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah yes. | 23:19 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadSEC | 23:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Who isn't here now | 23:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | What're you trying to do | 23:19 |
| aep | doesnt seem to react on command line arguments | 23:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Bridge wifi to 3G in wifi-client mode on the n900? | 23:20 |
| SpeedEvil | It doesn't | 23:20 |
| aep | nah, forward | 23:20 |
| aep | bridging wont do any good | 23:20 |
| SpeedEvil | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle-20091116/source/osso-wlan/dbus-handler.c | 23:20 |
| aep | usb to gsm i got working | 23:20 |
| aep | but the cable is annoying | 23:20 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - bridging in the loosest senser | 23:20 |
| aep | err... what is this? | 23:21 |
| SpeedEvil | There is a stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid solution in principle. | 23:21 |
| SpeedEvil | ssh root@phone pnatd|pppd | 23:21 |
| SpeedEvil | sort-of | 23:21 |
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| aep | great code | 23:21 |
| * aep backs of | 23:21 | |
| aep | hey thats not even that stupid | 23:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't know how to get that pipe bidirectional, I haver forgotten themissing link | 23:22 |
| aep | not this way, but the general idea would work | 23:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - I haven't tested it beyond pnatd actually giving a response that looked like ppp sync after doing the #99 thing | 23:23 |
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| MohammadAG51 | LOL @nokia | 23:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | (twitter) | 23:23 |
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| aep | SpeedEvil: i'll research on that idea. thanks | 23:24 |
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| Tott3[AEX] | anyone know where to get skype? oO | 23:34 |
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| crashanddie | ok, i'm sick of this shit | 23:38 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 23:39 | |
| *** crashanddie changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | Skype is INCLUDED in the N900. Unless you live in India, that is." | 23:39 | |
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| satmd | :D | 23:39 |
| Shadikka | :) | 23:39 |
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| * Myrtti hands crashanddie a metallic pink starburst seal of approval | 23:42 | |
| CreamyG | Tott3[AEX] you probably have to flash a different firmware to your n900 if it's not installed | 23:42 |
| CreamyG | he doesn't look very indian from here | 23:42 |
| GAN900 | Point them at the global firmware? | 23:42 |
| RST38bis | whadidhedo? | 23:42 |
| Tott3[AEX] | nvm found it | 23:42 |
| CreamyG | haha | 23:43 |
| Myrtti | RST38bis: the last bit in the topic | 23:43 |
| RST38bis | ah how queer | 23:44 |
| CreamyG | hey does anyone know how "Crash reporter" works? i installed it a while ago and it never pops up anything until theres 10 duplicate core dumps or whatever, then says its overwriting them. i see its options have "upload crash reports" disabled by default. which seems dumb. so if i turn that on, where does it send them? | 23:44 |
| GAN900 | CreamyG, Nokia. | 23:44 |
| * Myrtti sets out to do her animated GIF version of the seal | 23:45 | |
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| CreamyG | okay, i hope they enjoy their 10 intellisyncd dumps | 23:46 |
| CreamyG | and by enjoy, i mean fix the damn thing so it doesn't crash ten times a day | 23:46 |
| * RST38bis wonders if skype will ever be fixed on the n900 | 23:46 | |
| RST38bis | prolly not :( | 23:47 |
| Corsac | skype sucks anyway | 23:47 |
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| CreamyG | it's good for indians apparently | 23:48 |
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| CreamyG | lol sending crash report 11/85 | 23:49 |
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| CreamyG | sweet phone, this is | 23:49 |
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| Tott3[AEX] | RST38bis what you mean by ever be fixed? | 23:50 |
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| lcuk | Theres a thread on TMO at the moment which is looking for the good experiences long term users have had over the years with maemo | 23:50 |
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| lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=817191#post817191 | 23:50 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, and RST38bis and Jaffa and andre__ and X-Fade and anyone else who wants to say something about their positive experiences, please do! :) | 23:51 |
| lcuk | some lovely comments so far | 23:52 |
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| RST38bis | Their most recent tool in the fight against internet memes is this public safety information bulletin entitled: "An Introduction to PEDO BEAR." | 23:52 |
| RST38bis | wazd moo | 23:52 |
| lcuk | sigh | 23:52 |
| lcuk | "I always loved the helpful, friendly vibe. Developers, friendly banter, developers and good laughs." | 23:52 |
| andre__ | positive experience? with what? :-P | 23:52 |
| lcuk | wouldv been more along the lines what I am thinking | 23:52 |
| lcuk | of come on andre__ :P even GAN900 smiles sometimes! | 23:53 |
| andre__ | hey, I try to also become a poisonous community member! I can't suddenly add positive comments! :-P | 23:53 |
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| lcuk | andre__, then make your own thread :P | 23:53 |
| lcuk | this one is about the things that have gone right! | 23:54 |
| RST38bis | lcuk: nah, not gonna spend time on that, no point | 23:54 |
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| lcuk | theres no point to anything | 23:54 |
| crashanddie | well, has anything gone right in Maemo, really? | 23:54 |
| lcuk | read the thread | 23:55 |
| lcuk | people seem to think so | 23:55 |
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| andre__ | lcuk, done. you're welcome ;-) | 23:55 |
| lcuk | maemo has introduced many people to linux | 23:56 |
| andre__ | ubuntu even more. ;-) | 23:56 |
| RST38bis | lcuk: so what is the point of this thread? is it supposed to make me feel all warm inside or what? | 23:56 |
| lcuk | andre__ ubuntu never replaced my windows, maemo I bought a device and it didnt have windows, so I had to learn it | 23:57 |
| lcuk | RST38bis, no, its just another topic | 23:57 |
| RST38bis | hm. | 23:57 |
| lcuk | the talk in talk.marmo.org is upto us what the topics are | 23:57 |
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| lcuk | so I thought I might try a positive one | 23:57 |
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| lcuk | marmo o_O | 23:58 |
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| lcuk | RST38bis, did you have a 770? | 23:59 |
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