IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-09-10

RST38hthanksss00:00
RST38hsomebody slipped perl-base onto the device00:00
RST38hI wonder who...00:01
* FIQ|n900 hides00:01
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* chadi slaps healthcheck00:01
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pupnikwhat's new RST38h00:01
RST38hah, it is needed by dpkg00:02
RST38hpupnik: not much,same old shit00:02
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RST38hprocrastinating, rather than upgrading fbreader to 0.12.*00:03
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pupnikRST38h: i just took bread out of initial rise, kneaded it about 10 times, and have now set it in the oven for final-rise.00:13
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xtopheHello, do you know how long flashing a N900 is supposed to take ?00:16
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baraujoxtophe, IIRC, minutes00:17
jacekowskiemmc or combined?00:17
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xtophejacekowski: both00:17
SpeedEvilxtophe: around a minute.00:17
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xtophehmm been 12 already00:18
xtopheso i do sth wrong00:18
jacekowskiis it flashing?00:18
jacekowskior does it say waiting00:18
xtopheit say waiting00:19
SpeedEvilthen its not flashing00:19
jacekowskithen it's not flashing00:19
* xtophe should learn to read00:19
jacekowski~flashing00:19
infoboti heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware00:19
jacekowskiRTFM00:19
* zap heard 'flashing' means turning on and off00:21
crashanddieno, flashing is actually showing your privates00:22
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crashanddiehttp://www.gtspirit.com/2010/09/09/video-jeremy-clarkson-on-stig-gate-scandal/ <-- pretty interesting stuff Clarkson says00:22
orangeyhello all00:22
jacekowskitits and stuff00:22
orangeyI'm having some serious issues with VOIP in my N900.. How can I figure out which codecs it's using?00:23
orangeyI recall seeing lists of INVITEs and so on on mailing lists, but I'm not sure how to generate that00:23
orangeyis there some kind of debug command?00:23
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orangeyAnyhow, the essence of my problem is that I can't hear the other party at random intervals for ~5-100 seconds at a time00:23
orangeyit doesn't appear network related.00:23
orangeyand only happens with SIP, not skype or whatnot00:24
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crashanddieorangey: well, network is a relative thing, where is your SIP server based?00:25
orangeyUS and I'm in canada00:25
orangeyrather, I actually think the server is canadian00:25
orangeyacanac00:25
crashanddieorangey: anyway, /etc/stream-engine/gstcodecs.conf00:25
orangeycrashanddie: I've played with that00:25
orangeyhowever, even when I comment out all codecs, the problem still occurs00:25
orangeyeven though I theoretically should hear nothing, right?00:26
orangeyI put id=-100:26
orangeyanyhow, there's someway to debug further I know.. I want to see what codec it's actually using00:26
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crashanddiewell, you're most probably using PCMA00:26
crashanddieconsidering that's what the N900 prefers00:26
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crashanddiebasically, about SIP, "it depends"00:27
* noobmonk3y blinks00:27
* noobmonk3y looks @chadi00:27
crashanddieif the server prefers ILBC, and their "preference setting" is higher than the N900's preference setting for PCMU, you'll use ILBC00:27
* noobmonk3y prods crashanddie 00:27
chadihey healthcheck! long time no see :-)00:28
crashanddienoobmonk3y: yes?00:28
noobmonk3yhehehe :) real life got in the way :P hehe how are you doing? :)00:28
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noobmonk3yjust saying hello crash00:28
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crashanddieorangey: the syslog should tell you more though00:28
orangeycrashanddie: where is the syslog?00:29
orangey/var/log/syslog?00:29
noobmonk3yyou okay chadi?00:29
noobmonk3yi'm currently trying to re-learn via the sdk to redo healthcheck :) hehehe00:29
chadiredo it?00:29
chadiI'm great00:29
noobmonk3yyeah kinda, and add alot more :000:30
noobmonk3yie, constant update, and smoother screens00:30
noobmonk3ylots more info to add too00:30
noobmonk3yin my absence, had alot of extra info to add :P00:30
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chadiyeah lots of stuff on paper waiting to be implemented :P00:30
noobmonk3yhad about 40 emails in the last month with ideas and help :) - so as soon as i get back into the swing will give it a retry :)00:31
noobmonk3yhehehe, yeah.... tis good to learn :000:31
chadirewrite it in c++ :P00:31
noobmonk3ytis the aim :P00:31
noobmonk3ytrying to figure out ersbox, then to learn c++ - never done it :00:32
noobmonk3yesbox*00:32
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chadienjoy ;-)00:32
crashanddieorangey: for the record, I'm a developer on a VoIP/SIP server. I mainly use ngrep to check out what's happening on the SIP port.00:32
noobmonk3ybut then python took me 2 weeks, b4 i had healthcheck going, so hoping c++ wont take too much longer :)00:32
crashanddie(ngrep which IIRC isn't available on the N900)00:32
noobmonk3ycrash can you tell me what iirc means? heard it hundreds of time, just never understood it!00:33
noobmonk3y:)00:33
crashanddieif i recall correctly00:33
chadiif i recall correctly00:33
noobmonk3yahaaaaaaa ty :)00:33
noobmonk3yto both :)00:33
orangeyaha! tcpdump is the key00:33
chadiheh00:33
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crashanddieorangey: if you have the time, just grab ngrep sources from debian-src, and compile it on the n90000:34
crashanddieorangey: shouldn't require too many dependencies00:34
noobmonk3ybut yes, back to healthcheck, the idea is now to rutn it into an actual application, not a "my first attempt" stuyle app00:34
noobmonk3yturn*00:34
orangeyyikes00:34
noobmonk3ystylee*00:34
orangeywhy when tcpdump is already compiled?00:34
crashanddieorangey: because ngrep is a lot nicer than tcpdump :P00:34
noobmonk3yp.s. chadi, good to see you still on here :) :)00:35
orangeycrashanddie: godwilling, my relationship with tcpdump will be short00:35
lindi-crashanddie: just run tcpdump on n900 and pipe it to ngrep on PC :)00:35
* noobmonk3y slaps MohammadAG51 00:35
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crashanddielindi-: *shudder*00:35
* noobmonk3y wscreams BACOn in lcuk's good ear00:35
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chadinoobmonk3y: good luck :)00:35
lindi-crashanddie: running some complex filtering as root is a bad idea anyway00:35
noobmonk3ycheers :)00:35
orangeylindi-: nice : )00:36
orangeyspeaking of which, what repository is tcpdump on?00:36
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orangeyi can only find it in the garage00:36
crashanddielindi-: thanks, I need to be taught about security ;)00:36
orangeyaha. got it00:36
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orangeyhttp://maemo.org/packages/view/tcpdump/00:37
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trumeeorangey: sip on N900 is very buggy00:38
trumeeorangey: See bug #1038800:38
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem?00:38
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trumeeorangey: I have tried all sort of codecs with both asterisk and freeswitch servers and have failed.00:39
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trumeeeven Nokia/Collabora devs have acknowledged (taken sip traces off my setup) the bug, but until now there has been no fix.00:40
orangeytrumee: did disabling power saving on wlan help?00:40
trumeeorangey: not suprised that sip isnt working for you00:40
trumeeorangey: no, did not help00:40
crashanddieweird00:40
trumeei tried even usb networking!00:40
crashanddieI'm having no issues with SIP00:40
orangeytrumee: strange.00:40
trumeeand that also gave me choppy audio00:40
orangeycrashanddie: who's your provider?00:41
orangeytrumee: I don't have choppy audio *generally*00:41
* RST38h cackles evilly00:41
orangeySkype works beautifully00:41
orangeymost SIP works fine00:41
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crashanddieorangey: well... I'm a dev... I have my own servers00:41
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lindi-crashanddie: what sip software are you running btw?00:41
trumeecrashanddie: so am i. run my own * server.00:41
RST38hdevs do not have their own servers, admins do =)00:41
orangeybut there are a few completely predictable numbers that cause no end of problems00:41
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orangeycrashanddie: ah.00:41
crashanddietrumee: ours is a bit more advanced than *00:41
crashanddieheck, I have my own audiocodes and everything00:42
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trumeeorangey: collabora dev said that there is bug is gstreamer jitter library on N90000:42
crashanddieI haven't used my ISP's SIP a lot, but didn't notice anything strange there either00:42
orangeytrumee: any fix at all?00:43
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orangeytrumee: like I said, mostly it works with most people even on SIP00:43
orangeywhich leads me to believe it's a codec problem00:43
trumeeorangey: no there is no fix yet :(00:43
trumeeorangey: i have been pushing the dev to do something about it but seems its not in the priority list at the moment.00:43
trumeeorangey: funny thing is the meego is going to carry the same bug since it uses the same libraries00:44
trumeeso i would stay away from meego until that bug is fixed.00:44
trumeecrashanddie: i am more than happy for you to call  an extension of my freeswitch server and listen to an audio book00:45
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trumeecrashanddie: it gets choppy few minutes into the call.00:45
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crashanddieaudio book?00:45
crashanddietrumee: what timezone are you in?00:45
trumeecrashanddie: yes, something i have set on auto-pickup.00:45
trumeecrashanddie: BST00:45
crashanddietrumee: I'll give you a buzz tomorrow morning then00:46
crashanddietrumee: I could even set up a couple of calls and get some accurate measurements if I have the time...00:46
trumeecrashanddie: nah!, i will be away to work. I am on irc only on BST evenings.00:46
orangeyhmm.00:46
orangeyI'm not seeing any INVITE packets00:47
crashanddieyeah, and I don't intend to do SIP troubleshooting at 15 minutes to midnight :P00:47
trumeecrashanddie: however, i can gibe you the login details and you can do the testing in my absence00:47
orangeydoes tcpdump show the actual packets, or just that a packet went through?00:47
trumeecrashanddie: want to give me an email or want the setting on a private chat?00:48
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orangeyhonestly, after this last depressing run, I feel that it may be time to abandon the n90000:48
orangeythough it would pain me to use any non-free tool00:49
kerionooo :(00:49
orangeyI know.00:49
orangeyit's multifactorial, though - there's almost no AWS in canada00:49
orangeyso I'm using GPRS with this damned thing00:49
orangeyplus the VOIP issues00:49
orangeyand the obvious and widely known lack of apps00:50
orangeyany one is surmountable00:50
trumeeorangey: i can feel your pain. i cant throw away my N95 because of this voip bug00:50
orangeytrumee: *sigh*00:51
trumeeorangey: i went into coma for some time when i couldnt get sip to work reliably :(00:51
orangeytrumee: honestly, the worst part is that Nokia released a non-maemo phone after the n90000:51
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trumeei bought two N900, one for myself and one for wife hoping to do sip calls. and now they are both a waste00:51
orangeyThat's enough whining for me00:51
orangeytrumee: maybe salvage it by getting a SIP account elsewhere00:51
orangeytrumee: e.g., callcentric00:52
trumeeorangey: the same server works beautifully with N9500:52
orangeytrumee: callcentric + n900 worked *perfectly* for me00:52
orangeytrumee: when you're playing with maemo, YOU have to be fixed, not the problem00:52
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* orangey cries00:52
trumeeorangey: i run my own * server and have remote extensions given to family members. they have become used to simple phone numbers. i cant ask them to go back to sip isps.00:52
orangeytrumee: what's the setup?00:53
orangeytrumee do you interact with the POTS system at all?00:53
trumeeorangey:  * server connected to couple of remote sip extensions00:53
trumeeno POTS at all.00:53
orangeythat would be sweet00:53
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trumeei have set of Linksys PAP2/SPA3102 with family members00:54
orangeyyou have basically a bat phone00:54
orangeythey do one line for you and one for the rest of the world00:54
* DocScrutinizer yaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaawns00:54
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trumeeand everybody has simple phone number. i hate ISP phone number, usually they are pretty long.00:54
DocScrutinizergiraffe time again?00:55
orangeytrumee: what about rerouting?00:55
trumeeorangey: what do you mean?00:55
orangeytrumee: forward callcentric to your asterix box00:55
orangeysee if that doesn't solve your problem00:55
orangeyit sounds like it shouldn't, but such trickery has occasionally resolved issues for me00:56
kerioit's MOO time00:56
orangeymasters of orion?00:56
trumeeorangey: N900<>callcentric<>asterisk<>remote extensions?00:56
DocScrutinizer~moo00:56
* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass00:56
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orangeytrumee: right.00:56
RST38hMoo?00:57
orangeytrumee: first make sure everything works N900 <>callcentric <> N90000:57
orangeysince you have 2 around00:57
orangeythere's your video + audio00:57
orangeyonce that's done, add the asterisk piece00:57
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trumeeorangey: could try that. but my impression is that Sip to Sip calls on N900 are a fail. If i introduce a PSTN in between then it is ok, ie N900<>*<>ISP<>PSTN00:58
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DocScrutinizeryeah, plus some mixedpickles00:58
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SpeedEvilhttp://blogs.arm.com/smart-mobile-devices/watts-the-limit-for-smart-mobile-devices-meet-the-cortexa15/ hmm00:59
DocScrutinizerBS there's no such thing like SIP<>PSTN00:59
trumeeDocScrutinizer: ?00:59
DocScrutinizerSIP by definition needs a SIP farend to talk to00:59
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DocScrutinizerif you want to call PSTN via SIP, then you need to use a gateway01:00
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: ok. ISP<>Gateway<>PSTN, happy?01:00
DocScrutinizeryeah, a tad better01:00
trumeedoesnt solve my problem though. Not sure why Nokia went for a new sipstack when the Symbian one was working so well.01:01
trumeeN95 sipstack is amazing. It does g729 so well. With N900, g729 eats up 55% cpu.01:02
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orangeytrumee: I think that's the problem01:03
trumeeDocScrutinizer: maybe once your port twinkle to qt4, then all will be ok :p01:03
orangeytrumee: the person I'm trying to talk to who I have serious issues with is on the same provider (acanac), so we're probably having end-to-end SIP01:03
luke-jrtrumee: Sofia isn't new01:03
orangeywhereas everybody else is via PSTN01:03
trumeeorangey: pcmu consumes much less cpu, but still have the same choppyness.01:03
PhonicUKhas anyone tried Milkytracker on their N900?01:03
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trumeeluke-jr: not sure where the problem is a)Sofia or b)gstreamer/pulse-audio01:04
orangeyi actually wondered if it was some network issue and made my ISP add g729 to my account01:04
orangeytrumee: have you tried the new pulseaudio?01:04
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trumeeorangey: no i havent. have you seen the choppiness thread on tmo.01:05
orangeyhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6078801:05
orangeytrumee: which one? I've read through so many choppiness threads01:05
orangeymy problem isn't choppiness. it's complete silence for 10-100 seconds at a time01:05
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trumeeorangey: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=5403901:06
trumeeorangey: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=811368&postcount=2501:06
trumeeorangey: i asked the guy above to test against my freeswitch server and his N900 was choppy.01:07
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trumeehe is doing calls over his internal network only, no wonder he is not facing major issues.01:07
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luke-jrno issues here01:08
trumeeluke-jr: iirc you tested with my freeswitch and it was choppy :)01:08
luke-jrIIRC it wasn't.01:08
luke-jrdidn't timeless and I hold a 30+ minute long convo over it?01:09
trumeeluke-jr: timeless said there was choppines?01:09
luke-jryeah, maybe once every 5-10 minutes01:09
trumeeluke-jr: the server is my primary telephone line and trust me i use it daily :)01:10
luke-jrin any case, my own PBX works fine01:10
trumeeluke-jr: if you are happy to create an extension then i can hook up the audio-book to your system. you can play with it as long as you can.01:10
luke-jr01:11
orangeytrumee01:11
orangeytry this thing01:11
orangeyhook up a bluetooth and make the same call01:11
trumeeorangey: you think that will help?01:11
orangeytrumee: It does for me01:11
orangeytrumee: in fact, it eliminates the problem completely01:12
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orangeywhich now that I think of it points more to PA instead of a codec issue01:12
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trumeeorangey: ok. i am going to try that out. got to go now.01:14
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trumeeluke-jr: think about giving me an extension.01:14
trumeegn all01:14
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DocScrutinizerhmm, porting twinkle sounds tempting, but alas twinkle isn't qt4-ready01:17
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PhonicUKhmm, package manager keeps saying theres no free space01:18
PhonicUKbut apt-get has no problem01:18
DocScrutinizerotherwise it's be a walk in the park01:18
PhonicUKand everything has pleanty of free space01:18
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DocScrutinizercheck HAM logs01:19
PhonicUKwhere are they?01:19
DocScrutinizermenu - log ?01:19
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PhonicUKgot it01:20
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PhonicUKDocScrutinizer, looks like HAM is being stupid01:24
PhonicUKit says:01:24
DocScrutinizerthat all but new01:24
PhonicUKapt-worker: You don't have enough free space in /home01:24
PhonicUKbut earlier it says:01:24
PhonicUKapt-worker: free space (/home/) = 211374899201:24
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PhonicUKrequired disk space: 26639401:25
DocScrutinizerweird01:25
* satmd makes 485 pieces out of his birthday cake and shares his happy day :)01:25
DocScrutinizercheers satmd01:25
PhonicUKand i can use apt-get and its fine :\01:25
PhonicUKhow weird01:25
DocScrutinizerstrace?01:26
PhonicUKno stack trace is shown to me?01:26
CreamyGgoddamn, i fail at pointers. segfault :|01:27
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orangeyok, so I'm trying to test out the assumption that it's actually a performance issue01:37
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orangeybut when I install Titan's kernel (kernel-power-settings), I can no longer see my WLAN, though others show01:37
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orangeyany thoughts?01:38
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orangey(I CAN see other WLANs)01:38
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teilzeitstudentIs there a way to stop the app manager from looking for updates everytime i connect to some network?02:05
lcukteilzeitstudent, you can set the time between checks02:06
lcukyou will have to search, its a common question and there are answers02:06
teilzeitstudent'kay.. ty.02:07
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DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#02:09
DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Disabling_Auto_Updates_Check02:09
DocScrutinizerHTH02:10
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lcuk:) ta DocScrutinizer02:10
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teilzeitstudentDocScrutinizer, thanks found some SDK doc with the same info. I guess 2,147,483,647 minutes is as good as never.02:12
lcuk:D02:12
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kerioi just set it to a year02:13
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SpeedEvilI set it to once every decade.02:14
SpeedEvilDon't want it to get too out of date.02:14
teilzeitstudent:p02:14
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teilzeitstudenthmm. what will smartphones look like in 10 years02:15
* lcuk has a few ideas02:15
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teilzeitstudentwell, I do too but none of them are too nice. shouldnt have read 1984 the other day :<02:17
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kerio1984 is awesome02:18
SpeedEvilwas02:18
keriono, the book02:19
keriothe book is still awesome02:19
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teilzeitstudentwell soon google will have cameras outside of our house and inside, implanted in those internet-tv boxes.02:21
keriopff02:22
keriogoogle will scan our brain02:22
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teilzeitstudentand saying "google sucks" in your living room will automatically increase the pageranking of your embarassing party pictures from when you where young.02:24
pupnikanybody here on osx? this might be a fun game for maemo02:25
keriome02:25
keriobut not atm02:25
ieatlintteilzeitstudent: i dunno, i'd have to say i'd expect that sooner of apple02:26
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ieatlinteveryone will have just one phone, and they all look the same02:26
ieatlintyour only allowed to use it as they deem acceptable, etc02:26
pupnikhttp://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/sketchfighter/  kerio02:27
teilzeitstudentWell, google is Oceania, apple is Eurasia and microsoft is Eastasia. So.. what does it really matter :P02:27
keriopupnik: bookmarked, will try it02:27
kerioteilzeitstudent: omg they're the same!02:28
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teilzeitstudentieatlint, noo. there will always be room for individualisation. have that one ringtone noone else has and be free!02:28
kerioor did you mean that we don't know if 2 out of 3 actually exist?02:28
ieatlintexcept that ringtone wasn't free02:29
ieatlintit cost you money02:29
teilzeitstudentof course it will. what do you expect02:29
keriofreedom is never free02:30
ieatlinti expect freedom not to be a commercial choice02:30
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SpeedEvil1fcamera02:35
SpeedEvil1It's dying on startup02:35
SpeedEvil1any clues?02:35
satmdstart it from xterm and watch the messages02:35
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satmdmost likely it's missing something02:36
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SpeedEvilyeah - last lines were about LED02:36
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pigeonwhich app on the n900 can do phone call recording again?02:40
luke-jrRecorder?02:41
pigeonthanks, so obvious, yet so hard to remember... :)02:44
n900-spaceits in the form of a desktop widget, that lil red curved square ( i wish it was bigger ) .. its a cute widget though02:44
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pigeonah, "recaller"?02:48
pigeonit said it has recorded, but can't find the recorded file.02:48
luke-jrmine is called Recorder02:48
luke-jrI think it was preinstalled02:48
pigeonweird, i don't have that widget.02:48
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luke-jrPR1.2?02:49
luke-jrand it's not a widget02:49
luke-jrit's an app02:49
luke-jrlike you asked for02:49
pigeonwait, there is it, the recorded file02:49
pigeonyeah, 1.2, but it's called "recaller" in the widget list.02:49
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luke-jrit's not a widget02:49
pigeonmy "recorder" is an app.02:50
pigeonyeah02:50
pigeonand what n900-space said is a widget, which is "recaller".02:50
pigeonrecaller seems to have recoreded better quality ones.02:50
luke-jrO.o02:50
pigeonanyway, thanks both.02:50
n900-spaceoh sorry i forget the names usually :)02:53
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: fcam is brainfsckd as it seems to access LP5523 directly instead of going for mce pattern02:53
SpeedEvilhmm02:53
SpeedEvilstrace02:54
DocScrutinizer51e.g. fcam is known to mess up LP5523 so pretty thoroughly you not only see mce segfault but also need to *remove battery* to reset the led controller LP552302:55
SpeedEvilyeah - 'led blinker device' -> seg02:55
DocScrutinizer51noobs02:56
SpeedEvilthough the last call is actually to /dev/fb102:57
DocScrutinizer51wtf is so damn hard to sed a new pattern into mce.ini and call that via mce dbus call like every proper app does?02:57
ieatlintlol, local commuter train has massive delays because someone decided to drive their car down the train tracks02:58
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pigeonieatlint: that's not such a bad idea actually... assuming the law allows that :)03:03
pigeonseeing the trains are always delayed anyway...03:04
ieatlintit does not, and the car did not get far before getting stuck03:04
genewitchmmm half pound of grass fed beef and 2 free range chicken eggs for dinner03:04
genewitchgod DAMN03:04
pigeonieatlint: hahahahahaha03:04
genewitchcooked in butter and coconut oil03:04
genewitchnom. nom. NOM.03:04
ieatlinti'd probably not be laughing if i had to take the train :)03:05
ieatlintthankfully, i don't03:05
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pigeoni do, but i assume it's not the same country.03:06
ieatlintprobably not03:06
ieatlinthttp://sfist.com/2010/09/09/whats_going_on_here_train_wannabe.php has a picture of the genius stuck on the tracks03:07
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quanttromhello guys,.. I got the phone and I have to say my battery life is horrible. What do you to improve your battery life?03:35
quanttromI turned the screen brightness down, don't use a magnetic pouch, etc...all the standard stuff03:35
quanttromput on the autoconnection manager as well03:35
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SpeedEvilWhat do you use the phone for?03:35
SpeedEvil3g active internet connections are bad.03:36
quanttromwell I have wifi at home and univ. so it is quite common it will be online (SKype/Gtalk)03:36
quanttromalso03:36
SpeedEvil http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption Though I need to polish03:36
SpeedEvilIf you have powersaving enabled and working it does not use significant power03:36
quanttromI must use 3G because WIND does not have 2G03:36
SpeedEvilwlan that is03:37
quanttromI am pretty sure it's Power savings is enabled on Wlan03:37
quanttromyes it is03:37
SpeedEvilSome wlan routers do not peoperly supppport it, and cause it to use more power.03:37
asjquanttrom: define horrible03:37
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quanttromkk removed from charger at 9:45 AM03:40
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quanttromusing 3G but no data, some calls totalling maybe 10 mins03:40
quanttromwifi on for 4-5 hours03:41
quanttrom20-30 mins of internet radio03:41
quanttromand overall the phone has been on for ~10 hours03:41
quanttrombattery is dead03:41
asjhow many im/skype/sip accounts?03:42
quanttromskype + gtalk03:42
quanttromso 203:42
asjsounds about right03:42
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quanttromhaha maybe my expectations were a little too high :)03:42
asjshutdown skype, it eats about 25-75% bat/day03:43
asjdepends on how well skype network is doing that day03:43
quanttromhm interesting03:43
quanttromgtalk uses less, on average?03:44
asjstreaming audio is always hoggy too03:44
asjgtalk I found uses 15-20%/day (I can't remember if I was counting a day as 24 hours or 18, but anyways)03:44
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asjthat was idle and on wifi were powersavings worked03:45
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quanttromoh, also I have it set to search for Wi-Fi connection every 30 mins. is that a power hog based on ur experience?03:51
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asjquanttrom: to give you an idea, no calls, maybe 1.5 hours of mp3 playing and IM and an idle phone, with good 3g coverage I have over 50% at night.  Start using the phone, say an hour of web browsing, talking on im several times through the day. Basically using it as a computer replacement I get about 10 hours.03:52
asjquanttrom: no, I have mine at 5 or 10 mins03:53
quanttromalright thanks asj03:53
quanttromI think I'll go purchase a car charger now03:53
jpinx-eeepcasj: I do the same and get a day out of the battery which is about 7 months old03:56
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jpinx-eeepcasj: and I leave about 6 applications running all the time to save time when i want to do some quick work in a bus or whatever03:57
asjjpinx-eeepc: yeah, same here03:57
jpinx-eeepcand wifi searches at 5 mins03:57
* jpinx-eeepc can't afford data over the mobile network03:58
* jpinx-eeepc needs a better wep cracker ;)03:58
asjquanttrom: I would start with killing skype for a day and see how you go anyways.  Oh, and set it to 3g only so it doesn't search edge contantly.  There's a nice 3g switcher app03:58
quanttromasj: I'll kill skype and gtalk and see how that goes. also, my phone is set to 3G only from the settings. That's my only option03:59
jpinx-eeepcah - skype is probably your bogey quanttrom  - it is a real resource-hog03:59
jpinx-eeepceven when it is sitting in the background it is churning away and munching bandwidth ;)03:59
asjoh, and I have widgets running like crazy, omweather,fb,comic, etc03:59
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jpinx-eeepcasj: I have debian running in a chroot for irssi and bitlbee ;)04:01
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SpeedEvilskype wil do it04:02
jpinx-eeepcand when I get to my "desk" I plug it into the usb on this eeepc and ssh/sshfs itno it for the bigger screen and kbd, but all the "stuff" is in the n90004:02
SpeedEvilpretty much alone - as I understand it04:02
jpinx-eeepcso my n900 really*is* my computer now :)04:02
pigeonanyone here uses scim on their n900?04:04
pigeonor i actually meant mscim.04:04
asjduring battery trials on pr1.2 with skype (which is much better than 1.0/1.1) it was doing well, about 25% down by 6pm, then skype had some network issue and you could see cpu time jump, network activity jump and the batt was dead by 10pm04:11
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SpeedEvilskype is p2p04:24
SpeedEvilIf you are routing others traffic in any way - it uses stupid power04:24
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Sc0rpiusstupid question, but can you make VoIP through gtalk ?04:28
Sc0rpius'cos I've never even thought about that until I just read you guys talking about it04:28
MohammadAG51i think you can do video calls too04:29
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Sc0rpiusgeez... that's what I get for lazyness to try things04:29
ieatlintSc0rpius: gtalk 2 gtalk voip only at the moment though04:29
Sc0rpiusI didn't even know gtalk had video calls, I know Skype does, 'cos I use it heavily on my desktop04:29
ieatlintno calling phone numbers04:29
Sc0rpiusalas, I didn't know gtalk could call phone numbers either (even on a desktop)04:30
Sc0rpiuswow Skype brainwashed me04:30
ieatlintit can't exactly  -- it can in the US from gmail only, not even the official gtalk apps support phone calls yet04:30
Sc0rpiusoh ok04:31
Sc0rpiusI think I read about it in digg04:31
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ieatlintyeah, google voice support in gmail.. bizarrely implemented04:31
ieatlinti can make phone calls from gmail, but not google voice? weird shit04:32
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genewitchwhat is the difference between google voice and making phone calls04:33
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genewitchyou can forward txt to your gmail and use the gvoice in there to reply04:34
ieatlintin gmail, with google voice, i can make and receive phone calls without having a phone04:34
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genewitchgoogle voice isn't a sip service though04:34
genewitchhow can you receive phone calls04:34
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ieatlinthttp://www.google.com/chat/voice/04:35
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ieatlinthttp://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/call-phones-from-gmail.html for the official announcement and full details04:36
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RST38hHmm, ARM jumps from CortexA9 straight to CortexA1504:48
microlithit's 6x better, of course04:57
quanttromanother question. I installed the Open SSH client + server and the "SSH Status and Switcher" that adds a button so u can turn the SSH server on and off04:57
quanttromI tried removing the S55ssh scripts from rc?.d but sshd is still started every time the phone boots up04:57
quanttromwhat am I doing wrong?04:58
johnxcould it be the because it's wired into upstart?05:01
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quanttromthanks johnx , I'm used to the old sysv, just read up on upstart05:13
johnxyeah me too05:14
johnxit's even weirder since we're in this transition period where both appear to work05:14
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quanttromsomebody asked the same question in the forums05:33
quanttromI'll give 'em my..hack..05:33
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iluminator101hi i cant login my google voice from n900 why?05:35
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slonopotamusluke-jr: huh, ipv6 is already deployed in some places?08:16
slonopotamusi mean, on isp level08:16
ieatlintyes08:18
slonopotamuscool. sadly, not here08:18
ieatlintmy isp allegedly will give me /60 address range, and tmobile in the US has just started ipv6 trials08:19
orlok /60?08:20
ieatlintanyone with a phone that supports ipv6 is welcome to join it -- i'm running it on the n900 now, and it's oh so pointless08:20
orloki played around with an ipv6 tunnel to my home server, but thats about it08:20
orlokHmm, wesnoth doesnt want to start on my n90008:21
ieatlinterr, not a /60 block08:21
ieatlinta 60 address range, bleh08:21
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johnxhmmm, dunno how I feel about Nokia's new president/CEO being from the Microsoft business department ...09:12
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orlokheh09:13
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orlokas long as its not ballmer heh09:14
secyritas:D09:15
johnxballmer? didn't they fire him yet?09:16
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orlokthere is no way to get access to the gsm audio under N900 is there?09:19
genewitchFor dinner, free range chicken breast with french goat Feta pan fried with fettucini.09:19
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genewitchtotal cost something like $13 a plate09:19
genewitchwait, $9 a plate09:20
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rmrfchikaloha09:24
johnxmornin' rmrfchik09:24
rmrfchikjohnx: nokia hired new CEO?09:24
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genewitchearlier today i had free range grass fed beef sirlon with free range chicken brown eggs09:24
genewitchthat was hella good too09:25
inzrmrfchik, they did09:25
genewitchooh wrong channel09:25
johnxhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703597204575482902836750116.html09:25
rmrfchikwtf "free range". can't translate09:25
johnxgenewitch, it's all fair if your brought enough for everyone :>09:25
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johnxrmrfchik, uhm, it refers to an animal that was raised outside, rather than kept in a tiny cage09:26
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orlokhmm.09:28
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orlokparmaster: not parmaster of underground, etc fame?09:28
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Gh0stysoon N900 running windows mobile? http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/10/nokias-opk-is-out-replaced-by-stephen-elop-as-president-and-ce/09:32
Gh0sty;)09:32
johnxhey, at least it's not ballmer, right?09:32
Gh0sty:)09:32
rmrfchiksoon N900 running .net09:34
orlokDoes anybody know if its possible to access the GSM audio via a linux device?09:34
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johnxisn't there already mono for N900?09:35
johnxorlok, sorry. not ignoring you, but I have no idea...09:35
orlokthats cool :)09:35
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johnxorlok, is the goal to record calls or something like that ... ?09:39
johnxanyways, there seems to be a call recorder: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/recaller/09:39
johnxso that might have some good code to look at09:39
orlokjohnx: no, but i was just looking at that09:39
orlokyeah09:39
orlokand its python, bonus09:40
orloki'll see how that does it09:40
orlokwork makes an embedded linux modem that does data over gsm09:40
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johnxover a gsm *voice* call? O_o;09:41
orlokyeah09:41
orloki know09:41
orlokdont ask :)09:41
johnxjust please tell me the encoding is base64 over morse :D09:42
orlokahh cool that app actually added a desktop widget to press09:42
orlokhaha, we joke about that stuff09:42
orlokuuencode the data and write ot on a sheet of paper and fax it! yeah!09:42
johnxnever underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of backup tapes :D09:43
orlokyup :)09:43
orlokthough here in australia, we have panelvans09:44
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orlokgotta be at least an extra 50% capacity09:44
orlokalso lower latency, easier to load/unload09:44
johnxwell yeah. but I think idea is supposed to be that the station wagon is what the sys admin actually drives to work ;)09:44
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orlokjohnx: panelvans are also great for fitting a pair of 19" racks side by side09:47
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johnxhey, I can fit a 19" rack in my wagon, just a slightly shorter one ... http://wiki.eth-0.nl/index.php/LackRack09:49
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orlokjohnx: http://gallery.oldholden.com/terence_overlander/1978+Holden+Overlander+Panelvan+327+chev/09:50
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orlokhmm cool recaller seems to work09:53
orloknot sure if its directlly accessing the gsm data or just using a microphone or something09:53
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johnxif i had to guess, I'd guess it's doing something with pulseaudio09:54
rmrfchikjohnx: thanks for translation09:54
johnxalso: I now understand what you mean by panelvan ... :)09:55
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orloklike mad max's weekend car, before he got mad heh09:56
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johnxrmrfchik, no problem. "free range" is kind of a weird concept. Is there actually Russian phrase that means the same thing?09:56
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pigeonis there a ~/.xsessionrc equivalent on the n900?10:10
rmrfchikjohnx: hmmm. does free range mean "wild" or it does mean "not wild, but grown in, well, free range"?10:10
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mece"It's not just you!  http://talk.maemo.org looks down from here. "10:15
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crashanddie"Disabled toilets. Ironically, the only toilets big enough to run around in."10:18
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JaffaMorning, all10:25
merlin1991tmo is down :/10:26
meceo/ Jaffa10:26
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mecefmc also.10:26
mece:)10:26
meceoo its up10:27
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merlin1991s/.*/all I have todo is down :/10:27
merlin1991.* not a valid regext?10:28
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gomiamweird10:28
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gomiamyou have enclosed that in single quotes, right?10:28
gomiam(I'm assuming you are trying to sed -e that)10:29
merlin1991i tryed to use infobot, no idea how it's implemented10:29
merlin1991s/i/I/10:29
infobotmerlin1991 meant: I tryed to use infobot, no idea how it's implemented10:29
merlin1991just like that10:29
gomiamok, let're test10:29
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gomiams/'re/'s/10:29
infobotgomiam meant: ok, let's test10:29
gomiamretsnting....10:30
mece.*10:30
meces/.*/asdf/10:30
infobotmece meant: asdf10:30
gomiams/t.*t/test/10:30
meceit's literal10:30
gomiams/t.\*t/test/10:30
gomiamabc10:30
gomiams/\.\*/bca/10:30
gomiammmm... looks like it10:31
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merlin1991smaaal test10:31
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merlin1991s/[a]+/a/10:31
merlin1991yeah literal10:31
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merlin1991booooring ;)10:31
mecehehe10:31
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merlin1991anyone here who would would tell me not to buy a d-link switch? (I'm about to get one)10:37
nid0personally i wouldnt buy one of their consumer-oriented switches10:38
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nid0but most preferences between the big three for home gear is more down to personal taste/experience than any real differences in the products10:38
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merlin1991the big three beeing?10:39
nid0netgear, linksys, and d-link10:39
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merlin1991I dunno why d-link only sells the gay looking versions here10:41
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merlin1991I mean http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21hgcjjPU3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg vs http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31hjB0%2BRNNL.jpg10:42
koala_manwhich one's the gay one?10:44
merlin1991the white one :)10:44
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merlin1991even better looking one (also not avaiable here) http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31jrEXhgxOL.jpg10:45
ieatlintgays like black too, let us know when you find a pink or light blue one10:46
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koala_manof those, the sleek black one is the one I would call the most gay. the white one is futuristic and the one that looks like a 80s modem looks like.. an 80s modem10:47
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rmrfchiknot gay router http://www.electronicsinfoline.com/New/img/news/200909/13361_0.jpg10:48
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merlin1991rmrfchik, I'm looking only for a switch though10:48
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rmrfchikit will looks the same10:49
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rmrfchikguts open, wires, diods10:49
merlin1991and I'm not that awesome @ doing this kind of stuff myself ;)10:49
ieatlinti personally have liked the netgear rackmount line, but i guess it doesn't look that nice on a plain desk10:50
keriobuy a rack10:50
ieatlintyou can buy racks cheap on craigslist :P10:51
merlin1991have a rack too, but the switch is meant for the living room :)10:51
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keriomerlin1991: no, pretty sure a cute-looking AP is meant for the living room10:51
kerioieatlint: i'd buy a rack but i'm not sure i can rackmount a sheevaplug10:51
merlin1991ap? you crazy, gaming over wireless?10:51
ieatlintsure you can, it just makes no sense10:52
* kerio plays FPSes over wifi with a bluetooth mouse :<10:52
ieatlintand yeah dude, wifi adds 3ms to your ping, that's totally going to fuck you up10:52
koala_mankerio: how are bluetooth mice for gaming?10:52
keriokoala_man: meh, i don't really notice a difference10:53
kerioexcept when the batteries start to run out10:53
kerioin that case, i die10:53
kerio:(10:53
koala_manare wireless bluetooth mice more power hungry than those proprietary wireless connections?10:53
kerionever used one of those10:53
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kerioand the proprietary wireless mouses need a usb adapter10:53
merlin1991ieatlint, the problem isn't the 3ms that's ok, the problem is the high amount of wifi and other noise here wich produces regular 10 sec lags .D10:54
keriomerlin1991: so it's not a wifi problem10:54
kerioit's a *your* wifi problem10:54
merlin1991indeed10:54
merlin1991i'll reprase it then10:54
ieatlintgo invest in 802.11n :P10:54
keriomerlin1991: crack every network, enter every other AP, and turn the power down to the minimum10:54
merlin1991ap? you crazy, wifi gaming in vienna?10:54
keriomerlin1991: i'm in Rome, you think the situation is different?10:54
merlin1991nah10:55
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keriowell, i am *this* close to the router anyway10:55
kerioit's more that i don't want to switch to ethernet, losing my current connections10:55
ieatlintseriously, 802.11n... almost no one is on 5ghz right now10:55
ieatlintand the microwave doesn't interfere with it, hehe10:55
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merlin1991I used to have a wireless mouse, stopped using it again, because the signal got interrupted so often10:56
kerioi'm on 802.11n 2.4GHz only10:56
kerioit's still much better than g10:56
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ieatlintah, i meant to be saying 802.11a, but yeah10:56
kerioa?10:56
kerio:|10:56
ieatlinta is 5ghz only10:57
keriobut it sucks10:57
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ieatlintin my experience, it's no better or worse on its own, but the 5ghz range is not very crowded, so it ends up being better10:58
kerioyou just need to find a good channel10:58
merlin1991I guess living next to the biggest hospital here kinda adds to my problem :)10:58
kerioif you can't find it, crack every neighbor's router and turn their wifi power to the minimum10:58
ieatlintthat definitely makes a difference, yes10:58
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merlin1991so I'm bound to get a cable solution10:59
kerioor a bigger wifi AP11:01
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merlin1991a freakin huge one in that case11:01
kerioyeah!11:01
keriowith 2mt antennas11:01
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merlin1991ah well I have a fm transmitter in the cellar, why not build an overpowered ap :D11:03
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merlin1991or just build a faraday cage around the house :D11:05
TermanaN900yello11:06
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MohammadAG51hmm, don't some routers allow external antennas?12:32
MohammadAG51My old D-Link does12:32
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X-FadeMohammadAG51: ping?12:42
MohammadAG51X-Fade, pong12:42
X-FadeCan we try to get frozen depending on the new perl-modules today? That would make it a lot easier for me to get changes like this done in the future :)12:43
MohammadAG51Oh, versioned dependecy? I didn't get what you wanted before :P I'll do it in a bit :)12:44
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X-FadeMohammadAG51: I want to prevent blocking SSU from our end ;)12:45
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DocScrutinizermoo12:48
Dassucow imitation success12:49
DocScrutinizer~moo12:49
* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass12:49
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Dassu"twice as much as DocScrutinizer" wow he's fat12:50
DocScrutinizerhonestly, I'm musing bout this each time :-D12:51
MiXu-:D12:51
DocScrutinizera 100kg cow, what a fail12:52
pupnikthat quote is from a song12:52
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ieatlintyou weigh 50kg?12:54
ieatlintscrawny bastard :P12:54
DocScrutinizerthat's sufficiently precise and convenient a number, yes12:55
ieatlinti'm 67kg or so, and people call me too thin12:55
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DocScrutinizermaybe 55, or 58, I don't care12:56
ieatlintfurther proof you're a geek12:57
SpeedEvil78.2 here.12:57
SpeedEvilactually - 78.312:57
SpeedEvilI'm halfway through a coffee12:57
DocScrutinizerlol12:57
ieatlinthehe12:58
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DocScrutinizerI'm just taking care each of my coffees has enough sugar in it, and generally try to chose the more calories while eating12:59
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DocScrutinizershopping is a pain, nowadays you can't get decent food, all is fat reduced and light13:00
MiXu-The fuss about fat is ridiculous13:00
SpeedEvilJust cook from scratch.13:01
MiXu-Fast carbs are much worse for your health13:01
SpeedEvilyeah.13:01
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ieatlinthappily i can still get food that is anything but lean here13:01
SpeedEvilI've recently lost 25kg or so.13:01
SpeedEvilThe key was not low fat at all.13:01
SpeedEvilIt was portion control.13:01
Dassuyeah13:02
MiXu-I try to buy non-light products whenever possible and when cooking I've reduced the use of potatoes, rice, etc.13:02
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DassuI usually tell people not to eat13:02
SpeedEvilWhile losing 1Kg/week - 10% of my daily energy was in the form of chocolate13:02
SpeedEvilMiXu-: potatos are good13:02
SpeedEvilMiXu-: they are slow13:02
Dassulike seriously if you wanna lose weight Dont eat13:02
MiXu-Still carbs. And don't really taste like anything.13:02
SpeedEvilhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/749810413:02
MiXu-Unless you add fat =)13:02
SpeedEvilMiXu-: fair enough.13:02
SpeedEvilMiXu-: they however fill you up better than nearly anything else for a long time13:03
SpeedEvilhttp://www.mendosa.com/satrank.htm13:03
MiXu-True. If you consume lots of energy then cutting down on carbs is silly.13:03
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GNUtoo|laptophi13:40
GNUtoo|laptop*is 0xFFFF supposed to work on a n90013:41
GNUtoo|laptop2)how do I install extras-devel?13:41
DocScrutinizerfor 2) see wiki13:41
merlin1991I wonder if this exists13:41
merlin1991~extras-devel13:41
infobotmethinks extras-devel is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras#Extras-devel13:41
merlin1991and wth is 0xFFF13:42
merlin1991s/F/FF/13:42
infobotmerlin1991 meant: and wth is 0xFFFF13:42
DocScrutinizerFree Firmware Flasher Foo13:42
merlin1991bar?13:43
GNUtoo|laptopI saw that13:43
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GNUtoo|laptopfor the wiki13:44
GNUtoo|laptopI'm tr-trying but it still fails13:44
GNUtoo|laptoppartial refresh of applications13:44
GNUtoo|laptopis there some manual way to do that13:44
GNUtoo|laptopfor instance with ssh13:44
SpeedEviltry again.  Open the app-managerrrr, update13:44
GNUtoo|laptopI keep trying13:44
GNUtoo|laptopand still the same issue13:45
GNUtoo|laptopahhh13:45
GNUtoo|laptopfremantle13:45
GNUtoo|laptopnot freemantle13:45
SpeedEvilsyre tiy gave;t girt at werd furewakks un teh way?13:45
GNUtoo|laptoplol13:45
SpeedEvilyeah - that too. :)13:45
SpeedEvilSure you haven't got any wierd firewalls even13:46
GNUtoo|laptopno13:46
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kerioSpeedEvil: the fuck13:50
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SpeedEvil?13:51
kerio"syre tiy gave;t girt at werd furewakks un teh way?"13:51
SpeedEvilTypo.13:51
SpeedEvilNot looking at ther kesreen13:52
kerioyeah, i see13:52
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DocScrutinizeractually what's current state of 0xFFFF ?13:54
GNUtoo|laptophmmm13:55
GNUtoo|laptopit says that bootmenu-b900 breaks the 3rd party package policy13:55
GNUtoo|laptopand it refuses to install it13:55
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zapAnybody knows why on N900 the second layout (Russian) does not work? It tells me that the layout switched, but still enters latin symbols.13:59
zapThis is a "gray import" N900, with the European keyboard layout painted on buttons14:00
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zap(does the OS know what kind of keyboard is attached?)14:00
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zapsetxkbmap -v says: <<symbols:    nokia_vndr/rx-51(common)+nokia_vndr/rx-51(us)+inet(evdev)>>14:09
zapWhat is the config file for setxkbmap? How it knows about "nokia_vndr/rx-51"?14:10
GNUtoo|laptopok doing with apt-get14:12
pigeondoes the n900 gl support fbo?14:15
MohammadAG/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-5114:15
MohammadAGzap, ^14:15
MohammadAG<zap> (does the OS know what kind of keyboard is attached?) <-- it's a physical mat, it doesn't know about it14:16
MohammadAGI think you can set it with osso-product-info14:16
MohammadAGOSSO_PRODUCT_KEYBOARD='English, Dutch'14:16
keriozap: russian is weird14:16
MohammadAGor through settings > text input14:16
kerioit's the ui that has to switch to the other 4 levels14:17
keriofor other kbds, ctrl+space just changes the dictionary14:17
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crashanddieKhertan_Home: ping14:52
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zapOkay, at some point it started working. But I still don't understand what I did :)14:54
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lcukcrashanddie, test test test test test :P14:55
crashanddielcuk: TECT TECT TECT TECT14:55
crashanddieест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест 1/214:55
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crashanddieonce was OK14:56
crashanddietwice was OK14:56
crashanddie10 times is starting to get painful14:56
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decimoshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmhA1993LWY&feature=related15:02
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DocScrutinizerI think things like keymat used are stored to cal, but used only for initial config on firstboot etc15:06
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lcukcrashanddie, how are you getting on @ work?15:09
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crashanddielcuk: good actually15:10
lcuk:D15:10
crashanddielcuk: rewriting the installation scripts, 't was about 100 lines before, now about 200015:10
lcukas it should be15:10
lcukcomplexification!15:10
crashanddieadvancification15:10
crashanddiepreviously you had to create all the directories by hand15:10
crashanddieuntar a dozen .tar.bz2 files15:10
crashanddieetc15:10
lcukfeaturecreepificying15:10
crashanddienow everything is contained in a single .sh file15:11
crashanddiethe .sh file is generated automatically15:11
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merlin1991autoconf?15:12
crashanddieno, perl script15:12
crashanddieI'm adapting to autoconf now though for the compilation units15:13
* merlin1991 can't stand perl :P15:13
crashanddieperl is insanely powerful15:13
viszmmm.. perl15:13
merlin1991and the syntax sort of makes me run away15:13
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viszi try to obfuscate my perl, so that no one can read it15:14
viszif it's hard to write, it should be hard to read15:14
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merlin1991that's my main problem with it, it's hard to read others code15:18
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crashanddiewant to replace a single line (say the line that contains ###MYKEYWORD###) in file1 be replaced by the contents of file2? perl -pi -e'if(/###MYKEYWORD###/) { my $fn = "file2"; open my $fh, $fn or die "$fn:$!"; local $/; $_=<$fh>;}' file115:18
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CutMeOwnThroatI didn't know people deliberately wanted to obfuscate their perl code... I thought it usually happens naturally15:18
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Khertan_Hi all !15:18
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lcukmerlin1991, you are not meant to read perl15:20
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lcukthe developer guide recommends facepalming onto the keyboard to implement some advanced features15:20
crashanddielcuk: you want to hear something fun15:21
Stskeepsno, barbwire ;)15:21
merlin1991I had to adjust/fix/enhance several perl scripts already, and it always was a pain15:21
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crashanddielcuk: the main dev uses -O6 as the optimisation on his code15:21
crashanddielcuk: and then he also uses -g15:21
crashanddiexD15:21
crashanddie"Yeah, I'll make the compiler optimise the code massively, and then shoot it all down the drain by including debug symbols"15:22
lcukheh, but do debug symbols slow the code down..15:25
crashanddiewell, it does at startup15:25
lcukI thought they were just a map and consumed space only?15:25
* Stskeeps ponders idly what to do this afternoon15:25
crashanddiestartup without -O6 and -g: 2.1 seconds. With -O6 and -g: 29.3s15:26
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crashanddieafterwards, once it's loaded, it's fine15:26
crashanddieno performance hit15:26
lcukwth? how big is the binary you are loading?15:26
lcukand what platform15:27
* lcuk shudders even at 2.1seconds app startup15:27
tigertthat is like insane difference15:27
crashanddieLinux, on a dual-CPU core-i7 server15:27
X-FadeWell the webkit dbg package used to be 1GB or so :)15:27
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* DocScrutinizer cackles and points to STRIP(1)15:28
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: strip doesn't change a thing15:28
DocScrutinizerooh, so somebody really did a lot of useless coding and manpage writing15:28
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: I thought it would too, it just doesn't matter in this scenario15:29
crashanddielcuk: without the debug symbols and insane optimisation, about 7.7 MB total (all the binaries). With O6 and debug, about 180 megs15:29
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DocScrutinizerwith O6 and debug *and strip* ?15:34
GAN900Engadget: "a question that's very near and dear to Fins ..." . . .15:34
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: which leads me to believe the performance impact is coming from O6, not -g15:35
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crashanddiemaybe the disk is dying?15:35
X-Fadecrashanddie: What does -O2 do?15:35
DocScrutinizernow that makes sense :-P O6 optimizing performance out of binaries XP15:36
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: I'm just talking about load times here, not actual runtime performance15:36
crashanddieX-Fade: haven't tried it yet15:36
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X-Fadecrashanddie: And have all dependencies been compiled with that mad combo too? :)15:37
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: an age old common knowledge is you can so15:37
DocScrutinizerspeed up code by15:37
crashanddiethere are no dependecies15:37
crashanddiewell, unless you count the glibc as being a dependency :P15:37
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DocScrutinizersimply increasing it's size, like e.g. avoid loops and issue multiple similar commands instead15:38
X-Fadeunrolling loops..15:38
X-Fadecrashanddie: Add another layer of optimization: Copy it to a compressed filesystem :)15:39
RST38hhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/10/nokia_ceo_analysis/15:39
crashanddieif (string.length == 3) printf("%c%c%c", string[0], string[1], string[2]); else if (string.length == 4) printf("%c%c%c%c", string[0], string[1], string[2], string[3])15:39
* RST38h starts laughing uncontrollably15:39
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: unrolled enough for you?15:39
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: a good start, yes. Check if maybe -O6 can do this in a automatic way :-P15:42
RST38hGentlemen, what the hell are you unrolling here?15:42
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: generally I'd think omitting -g and using strip should yield same result15:42
RST38hunrolling a loop with printf inside is fruitless, forget it15:42
* lcuk shakes head15:43
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: can't you test -g and -O6 independently?15:43
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: well, at about 15-20 of compilation each time, I'd rather not xD15:43
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DocScrutinizererr what? days?15:44
crashanddieweeks15:44
DocScrutinizerfreggles15:44
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: Idc anymore anyway, just thought it was funny. I hate people who use -g in production, just learn to have good logs.15:44
* marmoute shivers15:44
DocScrutinizerlol15:44
crashanddieI guess that's my java side that comes up15:45
DocScrutinizerthough for production, yeah15:45
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: you want to know the only reason he has -g?15:45
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: it's so that it would generate a core dump15:45
DocScrutinizersounds sensible15:45
DocScrutinizer:-P15:45
crashanddieno, it doesn't15:45
crashanddieyou don't send things to production when you expect it's going to core dump15:46
DocScrutinizerXP15:46
crashanddie"So why exactly is there dynamite next to the fuel tank?" "So that we can definitely hear when a car explodes"15:46
DocScrutinizerrotfl15:47
crashanddie"And look, bonus points, it even leaves a crater in the middle of the road, so we know where to start looking for body parts"15:47
DocScrutinizeradd a remote control, to abort runaway15:47
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DocScrutinizerthis would be the analogon to kill -sigsegv15:48
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DocScrutinizergreat too for productive machines15:49
DocScrutinizertool15:49
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luke-jrwhich is better? +d or -d?15:52
E0x+A15:52
luke-jr15:52
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luke-jr+d means errors are returned, -d means they are raised :p15:53
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E0x+d so you can handle the exception15:53
E0xwith -d i think will just crash15:53
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luke-jr+d means you must check for an error15:54
E0x( noted: i don't have a clue about what are you talking ...)15:54
luke-jr-d means you can catch it with a try… block15:54
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luke-jrtry { print("success or +d: ", func()); } except e { print("-d: ", e); }15:55
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GAN900Here's how I figure it.16:02
GAN900The new guy is going to sell Nokia to Adobe since Apple wont let them play on iOS and that'll give them their own smartphone platform to play it.16:03
X-FadeGAN900: Nah, the adobe tool is now allowed for ios apps.16:04
GAN900Well, damn, there goes that theory.16:04
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GAN900How about he's finally Microsoft's in for getting WinMob on Nokia devices?16:05
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DocScrutinizer51wut?16:05
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, new CEO16:09
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DocScrutinizer51ooh16:09
RST38hGAN: 100% support the hypothesis of selling Nokia to Adobe16:10
gpdBBC iPlayer recently stopped worked on my N800 after they moved to the new version. Anyone know if there is a work around? Opera works but no flash. :(16:10
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RST38hGAN: But look at the bright side: we will get the latest Flash!16:10
RST38hHell, the whole OS will be rewritten in Flash!!!16:10
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GAN900RST38h, I'm excited.16:10
jacekowskiis that new flash released?16:11
jacekowskibecause i saw somebody on #beagle that he had internal release of 10.116:11
DocScrutinizer51duh, no I realize it's Friday.16:11
DocScrutinizer51now*16:11
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GAN900Nokia: "Oh, you guys WANTED periodic new updates? Shit, our bad, we'd kinda figured you would just want to buy a new device every year."16:12
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djszapiHow can I be a root in the scratchbox ?16:15
djszapisudo package is not installed yet16:15
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Khertan_fdisk isn't available on n900 ?16:17
djszapiwhy not ?16:18
luke-jrRST38h: that would be the death of Maemo/MeeGo overall16:18
luke-jrAdobe can't code for crap16:18
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RST38hluke: who cares?16:18
gpdno ideas on iPlayer on N800?16:18
RST38hIt is a business decision!16:18
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lcukgpd, hmm unsure16:19
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lcuktalk.maemo.org may be a better palce to ask, you need to find intersection of folks who have n8x0 and use iplayer16:19
SpeedEvilgpd: Are you aware of get_iplayer?16:19
DocScrutinizer51Khertan_: sfdisk?16:19
* gpd looks16:19
Khertan_DocScrutinizer51: not found in repository16:20
Khertan_I ve just try cfdisk16:20
Khertan_write the partition ...16:20
Khertan_but i got a strange error now16:20
DocScrutinizer51I prefer cfdisk any day16:20
SpeedEvilgpd: It's not a direct answer, but it lets you download programs, and then use mplayer. Won't work for spontaneous.16:20
Khertan_ /dev/mmc* < didn't exist anymore16:20
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DocScrutinizer51umm16:21
gpdSpeedEvil: thanks, i'll look into installing on my mythtv box and then connecting using the n800.16:21
SpeedEvilAlso - much lower CPU usage, and better battery than flash IME.16:21
Khertan_hum ... it s back16:22
Khertan_starnge16:22
Khertan_but ... i ve too partition on /dev/mmcblk1 but ... there is only /dev/mmcblk1p1 in /dev16:23
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DocScrutinizer51Khertan_: you're aware it generally takes a reboot to make kernel aware of partion table edits?16:24
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Khertan_DocScrutinizer51: didn't know :) reboot now :)16:25
Stskeepsor sfdisk -R /dev/device.16:25
Khertan_for information i'm trying to put swap on sd :)16:25
Khertan_Stskeeps: sfdisk isn't available on n900 (at least not in maemo repository)16:26
Stskeepsit's in busybo16:26
Stskeepsx16:26
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Khertan_arf16:26
Khertan_i ve tryed to apt search it before16:27
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Stskeepsever tried to execute it? ;)16:27
Stskeeps /sbin/sfdisk16:27
jacekowskii have new battery for N90016:27
Khertan_nope ... for me busybox just contain ls, cp, mv, cd, and old version of tar16:28
jacekowskiit should last couple days16:28
jacekowskihttp://gallery.jacekowski.org/main.php?g2_itemId=99016:28
StskeepsKhertan_: /sbin/sfdisk16:28
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hrwJaffa: any plans on moving Hermes to using OAuth for twitter?16:32
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djszapihttp://pastie.org/115008416:35
djszapiany idea ?16:35
djszapiI cannot install this simple package ...16:35
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jacekowskiapt-get install dialog16:36
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djszapihttp://pastie.org/115011116:38
djszapijacekowski ^^^16:38
Khertan_Stskeeps: thanks ... sfdisk works better :)16:39
djszapiany other idea ?16:39
jacekowskidjszapi: read what error says16:40
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X-Fadedjszapi: fakeroot apt-get install dialog16:41
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CutMeOwnThroatsee, told you16:41
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djszapiX-Fade: it does not work either16:42
jacekowskihis /dev/ is not mounted correctly16:42
jacekowskifor some reason16:42
djszapiCutMeOwnThroat: welcome to my ignore list16:42
djszapidev is mounted ...16:42
CutMeOwnThroatyou're welcome16:42
djszapiI have already checked in the output of mount command16:43
djszapibut that is not a problem in fact.16:43
jacekowskihow do you log into scratchbox16:43
djszapiI could ingore that problem ...16:43
Khertan_question: when i swapon on sdcard ? the original swap is still used ?16:45
jacekowskiyes16:45
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jacekowskiyou have to swapoff16:45
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Khertan_i ask because busybox swapon didn't have option -s :)16:46
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Khertan_jacekowski: hum ... i suppose it s /dev/mmcblk0p3 by default on maemo n900 ?16:46
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jacekowskii don't remember16:47
jacekowskicat /proc/swaps16:47
Jaffahrw: Yup, on a TODO. Though someone could create an issue for it, that'd be great.16:47
Khertan_oh thank16:47
hrwJaffa: you mean bug in bugtracker?16:47
Khertan_jacekowski: thx for reminds me of /proc/swaps ... for information this was the right partition :)16:48
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hrwJaffa: like bug 11275 for example?16:55
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11275 Add OAuth support for Twitter16:55
Khertan_Ouch it s make a huge difference to move swap on the sd card16:55
Khertan_specially when using pylint :)16:56
hrwKhertan_: good to know16:57
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Khertan_hrw: i feel the differences when there is too much io16:59
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CutMeOwnThroatl17:04
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Khertan_i think it ll be time to push Khweeteur to extras-testing ... what did you think ?17:08
bleaderCutMeOwnThroat: Dibbler ? :)17:08
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CutMeOwnThroatbleader, sossidsch inna bun? only $5 and thats cutting me own throat...17:10
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bleader:)17:10
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GAN900Why do applications in a single window DE insist on pulling focus ALL THE TIME: . . .17:15
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lcukGAN900, ? which DE are you meaning17:17
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GAN900lcuk, h-d.17:17
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lcukthen what do you mean by a single window D-E?17:18
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lcuki thought you were thinking of like easy debian where a whole environment lives inside a single window17:18
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Jaffahrw: Yup; thanks17:20
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noobmonk3yhi alls17:25
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noobmonk3yanyone using NIT Droid?17:26
noobmonk3yjust tried it and have a simple question, wheres the power button lol17:26
noobmonk3ycant turn the bugger off17:26
DocScrutinizer51hah17:26
noobmonk3y:P17:26
jacekowskionce you start it17:27
jacekowskiyou are stuck with it17:27
jacekowskithere is no going back17:27
noobmonk3yhehehe17:27
noobmonk3y:P17:27
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jacekowskiyou're not worthy running maemo after running android17:27
noobmonk3ylol17:27
noobmonk3yhave to admit, have never seen the new adroid, so was intruiged17:28
noobmonk3yanyway, no answers on how to turn it off?17:28
jacekowskipull the battery out17:28
noobmonk3ymeh17:29
noobmonk3ywas hoping there was a more... well, deigned method :P17:29
noobmonk3ydesigned*17:29
* noobmonk3y prods MohammadAG51 17:30
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GAN900"Oh, Modest is loading the inbox, let's switch you back to it even though you're lookoing at the browser since Modest is slow enough to be useless."17:31
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[DrkGUNMAN-N900]if you are in the main nitdroid desktop, hold the power button down (button at top of device, onormally used by maemo)17:31
GAN900lcuk, h-d shows one window at a time.17:31
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[DrkGUNMAN-N900]you should see the power menu. select opower off17:32
[DrkGUNMAN-N900]if not visible, scroll down to it17:32
DocScrutinizer51noobmonk3y: init 6 - nah wait is there any xterm on andridiot?17:33
noobmonk3ylol! i swear i did that!17:33
noobmonk3yBut thank you it works17:33
noobmonk3yalmost back to the safety of maemO!17:33
GAN900So things shouldn't just pull focus whenever they please.17:33
noobmonk3yDocScrutinizer51:  just looking17:33
GAN900Especially with as slow as things are.17:33
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noobmonk3yDocScrutinizer51:  not on standard install17:33
* merlin1991 just opened the amazon package with OpenGL(R) ES 2.0 Programming Guide inside17:34
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DocScrutinizer51noobmonk3y: get a motorola to contaminate it with google spyware :-P17:34
noobmonk3ylol!!!17:34
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[DrkGUNMAN-N900]tried the 3g enabled version, not bad. certainly some aspects which maemo does better, but it is nice to be able to get access to some mainstream apps for android. best of both worlds. Next... triple boot with meego when its ready!17:35
[DrkGUNMAN-N900]install a hosts file as well :)17:35
noobmonk3y:) :P17:35
DocScrutinizer51why not quad boot with winmoob7 ?17:36
DangerMaushahaha17:36
lcukGAN900, i am extremely interested in specific usecase, for many people browsing and mail are fine but there are some folks with humungous uncontrollable inboxes who are also browing multitple flash laden sites which will bring down a desktop machine let alone a resource constrained device17:36
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DocScrutinizer5116:36:59 up 9 days,  2:32  -  for the usability of multiboot :-P17:38
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lcuki just flicked backwards and forwards between browser and my modestly filled modest config without issue17:38
RST38hlcuk: And these people ought to be exXxterminated!17:38
RST38hB)17:38
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lcuk;)17:38
lcuknahhh RST38h17:38
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RST38hForget Modest or the browser, none of them will ever be fixed.17:39
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RST38hSo any discussions of how they SHOULD behave are pointless.17:39
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marmoutelcuk: I'm sorry but Modest is a joke.17:40
* Stskeeps 's with marmoute 17:41
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marmouteNo Thread, No Flag, No attachement WTF ?17:41
DangerMauslol rent 4th paper jamb in the last 30m17:41
Stskeepsmarmoute: it does have attachment17:41
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lcukmarmoute, is there an alternative thats viable?17:42
lcukcan we use the meego reference mail client on maemo?17:42
marmouteStskeeps: no it only show image not regular attachement.17:42
Stskeepsmarmoute: hm, ok17:42
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marmouteStskeeps: I once reply a "haha you forget the attachement" email to a perfectly attached email on a hundred people mailing list becaus of modest.17:44
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marmouteluck claws mail is ugly but fonctionnal I never tried meego's one. Maemo Xterm bug prevent to use mutt too.17:45
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lcukmarmoute, have you tried to build/use the git version of modest - changes and fixes since pr1.2 included17:46
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lcukhttp://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=5663417:46
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lcukand bug 10206 is included in that afaik17:47
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10206 Email Attachment not visible if multipart/alternative mime types present17:47
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crashanddielol... The N900 reconfigures itself when you change the simcard? That's new.17:48
h4waiiEasiest way to launch rtcom-messaging-ui from xterm?17:49
Stskeepscrashanddie: no, battery17:49
crashanddieStskeeps: but I didn't change it...17:49
Stskeepscrashanddie: took out battery17:50
crashanddieoh17:50
Khertan_crashanddie: you remove it17:50
h4waiiYou had to remove the battery to swap SIM.17:50
crashanddieI think that's the first time I noticed it.17:50
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crashanddieI switched my SIM quite a lot when I was in Oz, never had to give my zone again etc.17:50
h4waiiHow long did you leave the battery out for?17:50
crashanddie20 seconds?17:50
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Stskeepscrashanddie: usually enough17:52
Stskeepsa PITA when i code meego17:52
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lcukcrashanddie, internal mini clock battery thing17:53
lcuk?17:53
* RST38h looks at the "Nokia CEO Resigns" thread at tmo, satisfied seeing the usual selection of loons 17:54
h4waiiEasiest way to launch rtcom-messaging-ui from xterm?17:54
abare they already in "Microsoft conquers the Nokia" thread?17:54
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RST38hab: Ofbloodycourse17:55
abgod save the queen.17:55
RST38hab: Personally, I subscribe to the "he will sell Nokia to Adobe" theory, becuase it is funnier17:55
abthat's interesting17:55
abare there any bids at stake?17:55
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RST38hIn some other context, I would say "credibility", but none of the posters in that thread have got any17:56
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RST38hFunny thing is, the guy seemed to preside over BSD-kerneled Project Pink at Microsoft17:57
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RST38hNo, wait, Wiki says Kin was WinCE based17:58
abRST38h, my understanding that he was chairing business division17:58
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RST38hab: that too17:58
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RST38hand worked at some MA fast food places before that :)17:59
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aboversaw Information Worker, Microsoft Business Solutions and Unified Communications Groups.17:59
RST38hTheRegister guys have got the scoop: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/10/nokia_ceo_analysis/17:59
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DocScrutinizer51crashanddie: lcuk: backup battery borked. Quite usual for ~90% of those components18:02
lcukh4waii, you want to open the whole conversations window or a specific thing within it?  (I am sure there is some dbus-send call)18:02
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DocScrutinizer51while according to specs the backup battery should last for powering RTC several 1000h, it usually is just enough for some tens of seconds18:04
Stskeepscrashanddie: summit proto?18:05
crashanddieaye18:05
Stskeepssame problem here, might be simply built without a proper battery18:06
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DocScrutinizer51Stskeeps: nah, got 2 devices no summit proto here, both lose RTC after max 120s18:06
Stskeepsk18:06
Stskeepsweird18:06
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DocScrutinizer51it's those crappy LiIon cells18:07
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DocScrutinizer51seems they are"mt fit for the way they are treated18:07
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DocScrutinizer51both during manufacturing (reflow) and during normal use18:08
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DocScrutinizer51for FR we once did a poll: something like 30 of 40 devices had broken cells18:10
crashanddiehmm18:10
* DocScrutinizer51 shudders on the idea of kicking off such poll on tmo18:10
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DocScrutinizer51anyway the cells seem same crappy hitachi component as in FR18:11
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DocScrutinizer51critical to reflow temperature profile, as well as no word about deep discharge18:14
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DocScrutinizer51several reports of even leaking cells18:14
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DocScrutinizeroops seiko, not hitachi18:20
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DocScrutinizerhttp://de.mouser.com/catalog/642/2318.pdf18:20
DocScrutinizernominal capacity >100uAh, while RTC supply current usually <<1uA18:22
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DocScrutinizereven *if* RTC would eat an impossible 1mA, it still should give you >6min of RTC operation without main battery18:23
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DocScrutinizer51you could argue 80% of N900 are defective and would have to get repair18:25
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DocScrutinizer51otoh standby of RTC w/o mainbat isn't a advertised product property18:26
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GAN900Modest and Tracker have done so much damage to the platform.18:33
GAN900lcuk, open Modest, tap inbox (spinning wheel in toolbar starts), switch to MicroB to read a web page while waiting, get pulled back to Modest when it loads the inbox pane 10 seconds later.18:34
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DocScrutinizer51tracker yeah. DIE tracker DIE, burn in hell!18:36
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DocScrutinizer51but ohnoes, even meego has *mandatory* tracker :-((( failwale18:37
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* DocScrutinizer51 wonders why the hell it's so hard to learn18:37
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crashanddie"German officials have created a labyrinth in the shape of a giant sausage to help people learn about the health risks associated with the popular fast food currywurst (curried sausage)."18:41
crashanddie(god I'd love to have a curryworst right now)18:41
Stskeepsdamnit, now i want currywurst.18:41
Stskeeps$@$18:41
GAN900crashanddie, tax dollars at work?18:42
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lcukGAN900, i can see that as a minor irritant, but not really drastically serious, it was in the middle of something afterall18:44
lcukand as for tracker - come up with a better way.18:44
andrei1089hi, I have no internet in scratchbox, but I remember there was some command to fix this. Any hints?18:44
Stskeepsetc/resolv.conf and /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf is what's messed up18:44
lcukGAN900, perhaps it is something that can be looked at with the hildon ssu stuff down the line18:44
lcukbut to know to do that bugs will have to be filed :P18:45
GAN900lcuk, have been18:45
GAN900Years ago18:45
GAN900for the MicroB beta.18:45
lcuki just checked bmo for "focus" bugs18:45
andrei1089thanks Stskeeps18:46
lcukhuh? this isnt microb issue?18:46
GAN900As MicroB pulls the same shit.18:46
GAN900It's an everything issue.18:46
GAN900But it's an application bug.18:46
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lcukits not app level, and this is something all OSes have issue with18:47
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DocScrutinizer51it's a problem of setfocus() not distingushing between intra-app and inter-app focus stealing18:47
DocScrutinizer51same problem with modal dialogs18:48
lcukused to happen extremely seriously on windows with IM messaging18:48
lcukyou start typing to one person18:48
lcukand a new message pops up over top :D18:48
GAN900It's infuriating.18:48
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lcukso you finish sentence intended for your mate to your mum instead18:49
GAN900Be nice to have some optimization in Maemo.18:49
Stskeepshttp://www.engadget.com/2010/09/10/google-android-2-2-not-designed-for-the-tablet-form-factor/ <- finally18:50
DocScrutinizer\o/18:52
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DocScrutinizer(modal) try copying the correct e.g. APN settings from a carrier's webpage to settings->internet-connections->GPRS :-S18:53
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DocScrutinizeror SIP config, for that behalf18:54
GAN900Maemo's the new Windows XP18:54
GAN900You can find the Hildon 1.x stuff if you dig deep enough in settings.18:54
GAN900"for that matter"18:55
RST38hStskeeps: Just wait and see.18:55
StskeepsRST38h: no, i'm just happy someone finally agreed to my point android was a smartphone os and not much else18:55
Stskeeps:P18:55
lcuksigh GAN900 sure, theres probable a boat load of the original kernel still around too and that was written 19 years ago *shock*18:56
GAN900lcuk, not the same as having a mix of paradigms floating around in your OS.18:57
DocScrutinizerfor BME that seems to be correct :-P18:57
GAN900Doesn't really seem to scream polish.18:57
lcukit shouldn't the kernel is Finnish18:57
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RST38hYooohooo:18:58
RST38hhttp://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle-1.3/18:58
RST38hStskeeps: for another few months maybe.18:59
lcuk:)18:59
DocScrutinizerwait, WHAT?18:59
RST38h[side note] ...and they are breaking binary compatibility again.18:59
GAN900Prepare yourself for the last letdown.18:59
DocScrutinizerAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHH19:00
DocScrutinizerwhere's the friggin changelog?19:00
Stskeepsthat's not fremantle-1.3 sdk.19:00
Stskeepsalso, that "-1.3" is needed cos of the way HAM deals with it19:01
RST38hit is an extras repo being prepared for pr1.319:01
Stskeepslook at free/ date19:01
RST38hthat's all19:01
Stskeeps:P19:01
Stskeepsyes19:01
RST38hright now it is a symlink to 1.219:01
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RST38hGAN: Look at the bright side: once we know there won't be any more PRs, people like MohammadAG won't have to look back when creating repos of bugfixed PR packages19:02
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DocScrutinizermeh19:03
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lcukRST38h, how did your qtification get on?19:05
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Stskeepsthe finnish tv news are really nothing but the nokia news..19:07
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lcukStskeeps, unexpected today really?19:08
Stskeepsnot really19:08
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RST38hlcuk: Did not have chance to run it19:11
RST38hlcuk: Lots of other things to do19:11
lcuksure19:12
lcukyou saw that thp did a gtk prototype of gpodder for meego?19:12
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RST38hyea19:13
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lcukRST38h, is your front end ui already gtk oriented? (I know the deep down stuff isnt)19:14
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lcukRT @cscoobing BTInfinity fibre optics? With the speed of my line they must get their fibre from All Bran!19:15
* lcuk giggled @ this tweet19:16
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DocScrutinizerWOOOOOW new download statistics19:17
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lcukDocScrutinizer, you mean 29.5million (pretty much 30%) in exactly a month?  or per package stats?19:19
DocScrutinizerno, I mean bargraph instead of that confusing curve19:19
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DocScrutinizeralso split into extras, -testing, -devel19:20
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DocScrutinizer(yellow, blue, magenta)19:20
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RST38hlcuk: I have almost no front ui19:21
DocScrutinizerour garage wizards did another fancy19:21
RST38h(which is exactly the point)19:21
RST38hDoc: URL?19:21
DocScrutinizere.g http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/starhash-enabler/#19:21
lcukRST38h, indeed, do you already have a version which (for isntance) renders direct onto an XImage?19:22
RST38hthanks19:22
RST38hlcuk: Had it for years19:22
RST38hDoc:No overall stats for all packages though?19:23
DocScrutinizerdunno19:23
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* RST38h would like to check his suspicion that -testing and -devel downloads exceed plain extras over the last few months19:25
SpeedEvilhttp://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/fmms/# - well - look19:25
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SpeedEvilThough I can't seem to find the raw data anymore19:26
drizztbsdwhy is http://maemo.org/packages/view/horizontal-call/ only in extras-devel? :(19:27
lcukdrizztbsd, CONTACT DEV AND ASK HIM?19:28
lcuk-caps19:28
drizztbsduhm good idea19:28
DocScrutinizerumm, zoom option dropped during upgrade to nice new bargraph statistics19:29
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RST38hOMG APPLE ALLOWS FLASH APPS ON IPHONE NOW19:54
kerioOMG OMG OMG OMG OMG19:55
keriowait, why should we care19:55
RST38h...and the millions of faithful will have to readjust their worldview from "nobody needs Flash, it is slow and sucks" to "iPhone has get the latest bestest Flash of all"19:56
prontobecause cookies19:56
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kerioi liek cookies19:56
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lcukRST38h, I thought it was flash->iphone conversion19:57
lcuknot directly running flash?19:57
lcukie the opening of the api should allow the continuation of other cross platform framework conversions too19:58
lcukerrr opening of the licensing19:58
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RST38hlcuk: dunno, not sure I want to know19:58
RST38hhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/10/shouty_republican/ <=== yesss19:58
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h4xordoodhey how is maemo global version different from indian version20:01
h4xordood?20:01
h4xordoodi am from India20:01
h4xordoodand i have n900 with Indian version20:01
h4xordoodnow if i flash with global version20:02
h4xordoodwhat would be the benifit20:02
h4xordood?20:02
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FIQHi, which way is recommended, GUI installer or command-line way, for installing the SDK?20:46
FIQbecause, GUI would be nice for a lazy user, but i would happily use the commandline way if that gives some more possibilities. :p20:47
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Munkiiiwithout me rebooting my phone and loading NITDroid, can somebody tell me if cell data is usable yet?20:50
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zapAnybody knows if it's possible in Mappero to show the maps one level larger than it shows by default? The map text is quite small for my eyes20:54
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Munkiiisorry, havn't got Mappero installed.20:56
DocScrutinizer51Munkiii: check netmon20:56
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E0xzap: hmm if you zoom it ?20:56
Munkiiicheck netmon? explain more?20:57
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zapE0x: if I zoom it, it loads another level with small text21:00
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E0xgo to the doctor ( just kidding )21:01
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FIQfine, i go for the gui one. :)21:02
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Munkiiiwithout me rebooting my phone and loading NITDroid, can somebody tell me if cell data is usable in NITDroid yet?21:03
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DocScrutinizer51Munkiii: check netmon21:04
MohammadAGX-Fade, ping?21:04
johnsHi21:04
Munkiiican you explain more?21:04
X-FadeMohammadAG: pong21:05
Munkiiido i need to install that on NITDroid?21:05
RST38hAh, here he is21:05
RST38hMohammadAG: Have you included the latest Modest into the SSU?21:05
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DocScrutinizer51Munkiii: this chan's name is #maemo21:06
FIQ#nitdroid21:06
FIQthere's an official channel21:06
Munkiiiah, ok. cheers.21:07
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MohammadAGRST38h, afaik yes, I still can't figure how GPG works so.. yeah21:08
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RST38hMohammadAG: The bmo claims they have fixed the copy/paste bug21:08
RST38hMohammadAG: ALSO, there has been an important update on the swap-fucked-after-5-days bug, let me pull it up...21:09
MohammadAGoh, a newer version? lemme fetch that21:09
FIQhm, MohammadAG, did you do a community runned SSU? :p21:10
MohammadAG#maemo-ssu21:10
RST38hMohammadAG: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6382#c1021:10
povbotBug 6382: Device becomes sluggish after several days21:10
MohammadAGnice, PR1.3 speculations starte21:10
RST38hPretty much confirms what ShadowJK has guessed + names some possible culprits21:10
MohammadAGd21:11
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MohammadAGRST38h, and no workarounds21:12
h4waiiMohammadAG; PM.21:12
RST38hMohammadAG: I cannot think of a possible workaround for this21:12
MohammadAGexcept more RAM21:13
RST38hMohammadAG: Discussed it with a friend today, he thinks of tiered swap21:13
RST38hMohammadAG: Or faster MMC :)21:13
MohammadAGor switch swap to microSD21:13
RST38hMohammadAG: But the tiered swap won't help, as MMC takes the same time for short and long "seeks", unlike the real HD21:13
MohammadAGpreferably class 621:13
RST38hMohammadAG: microSD is not faster. 4bit interface.21:13
MohammadAGI read somewhere it was faster...21:14
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RST38hMohammadAG: SSU-related fix would be to compile and offer all packages where they fixed memory lekslately21:14
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: MohammadAG: swapon /dev/mmcblk1p3; swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p3; swapon swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p3; swapoff  /dev/mmcblk1p321:16
RST38hDoc: yea, but this looks intrusive =)21:16
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RST38hDoc: Wonder if Nokia will simply roll this into a cron job and release it with PR1.3 though :)21:17
DocScrutinizerhmm, whatever that means to me21:17
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: maybe they are smartasses and don't do it via cron but rather when swap space fragmentation kicks in21:19
lcukDocScrutinizer, swapon swapoff - if you turn the swap off, where does the used memory end up21:20
DocScrutinizerlcuk: c&p error21:20
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: the idea is to swapon a spare prior to swapoff the fragmented21:21
MohammadAGlcuk, oblivion21:21
lcukDocScrutinizer, oh sure, wheres the spare?21:21
RST38hA'ok, here is a plan21:22
RST38hDivide swap partition in two equal parts21:22
MohammadAGI wonder how the device runs without swap, at all21:22
RST38hSwitch between them once the current swap fillsup :)21:22
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I've tested this, works as far as there's no errors. Dunno if it's effective as I never encounter that slowdown so far21:22
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I used a swap partition already existing on my uSD21:22
DocScrutinizerfor that test21:23
lcukDocScrutinizer, sure21:23
lcukso now, expand that into something that could be done in the system21:23
lcukRST38h, hm21:23
lcukthat gives half available swap at once21:23
DocScrutinizerRST38h: that's the better version, but obviously would halve the available swap space21:24
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DocScrutinizerbetter create a second swap partition on eMMC with same size of 768M if you want to keep system properties21:24
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lcukbetter to find the issue21:25
DocScrutinizerthe issue has been documented in detail by ShadowJK21:25
lcukand madam dug and spotted a load of things over the last period21:25
lcukthe effect or the cause?21:25
DocScrutinizerwhatever you call the transition from sequential to random writes in swap21:26
DocScrutinizerthere's always a cause behind the cause21:27
RST38hlcuk,Doc: you do not need 768MB swap21:28
DocScrutinizeryeah21:28
RST38hRAMSize x2 is considered a good swap size21:28
DocScrutinizeryep, ack21:28
RST38hi.e. at most 512MB per swap partition21:28
RST38hSomething is telling me that 384MB will do just as well21:29
DocScrutinizerI tend to agree21:29
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RST38hhelo javispedro21:30
lcukevening javispedro \o did you have lag?21:30
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javispedroquite :)21:30
javispedroHELO.21:30
mikhasheya javispedro21:30
DocScrutinizerlo javispedro21:30
FIQhm...21:30
FIQnow i've restarted the installer 5 times so i'm sure the problem isn't "temporarly"21:31
FIQhttp://pastebin.com/UQ1vMs4y21:31
FIQany ideas?21:31
FIQline 26 and onwards21:31
FIQis the interesting part21:31
MohammadAGwb javispedro!21:31
javispedroMohammadAG: see, I told you I would be back by september :)21:31
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lcukRST38h, changing partition sizes would worry lots and complicate many things I would assume21:32
h4waiiFIQ; do you not have network connectivity?21:33
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FIQwell, i'm on IRC, so i guess i have it. ;)21:33
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h4waiiYou might not have it from within scratchbox.21:33
FIQhmm21:33
FIQinteresting21:33
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, mhd!21:33
h4waiiCheck your DNS.21:33
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, MHD!!!21:33
DocScrutinizerlcuk: changing partition count is more of a problem21:34
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* lcuk2 huggles virgin internet21:37
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* MohammadAG donwgrades lcuk221:38
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MohammadAGdowngrades*21:38
javispedroso, what's new?21:39
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* kerio overclocks MohammadAG 21:40
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* MohammadAG burns21:40
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MohammadAGjavispedro, oh nothing much21:40
MohammadAGMaemo 7's out, and we all upgraded to N100021:40
MohammadAGbut you probably knew that :P21:40
kerioyou only have N1000s?21:41
keriolosers!21:41
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* X-Fade slaps javispedro for not being around more lately21:41
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kerioN∞µ here21:42
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* javispedro usally uses IRC while bored, but he's not exactly been bored these months :)21:44
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X-Fadejavispedro: Well, we missed you here :)21:45
javispedroI've read logs, and ml lists, so just joking -- I do know what's new :)21:48
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X-Fadejavispedro: Up for trying to OBS for fremantle?21:49
X-Fadejavispedro: Some of your packages fail because of scratchboxisms :)21:49
javispedroBtw, X-Fade. You can still email me with problems with the new (as in, 3 months old new :) ) autobuilder setup21:50
javispedrosome people have been doing that already, so21:50
X-Fadejavispedro: Trying to get the OBS in such a shape that it can be a replacement for the autobuilder.21:50
X-Fadejavispedro: That should be a lot more future proof.21:51
javispedroyep21:51
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X-Fadejavispedro: And it runs without busybox and uses the real tools ;)21:52
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* javispedro emerges obs21:56
javispedrobtw if someone is interested in garmin apps/nRoute, I made a liblocation->garmin pvt protocol converter21:57
javispedrohttp://gitorious.org/garminchatd21:57
javispedroit's complete enough nRoute works with it21:58
slonopotamusmeh21:58
h4waiiLOL21:58
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slonopotamusavailability of maemo update is easily guessable by repository.maemo.org speed21:59
X-Fadeslonopotamus: That would probably be the last thing.22:00
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nomemesherehey, is there a way to put a schedule into the maemo calendar (like every tuesday at 8 i have class x, etc)?22:03
javispedroyes, you have the usual options -- every week, every month.22:04
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nomemesherethere doesn't seem to be a feature for specific days of the week or whatever, id have to go through manually22:04
javispedroyes, you have22:04
nomemesherek ill mess with it more22:04
nomemesherethere an app for netflix like android and the iphone?22:05
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* javispedro waves and promises increased IRC presency from now on22:06
javispedrosee you22:06
nomemeshereoh, and how do you actually scroll around the map using maps.google.com mobile version22:06
nomemeshereadios?22:06
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h4waiiEnable cursor mode.22:06
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nomemesherethere a way to make maps app less shitty?22:07
nomemeshere(thanks I'll try that)22:07
nomemesherealso, is there a way to only auto connect to *some* wifi networks?22:07
nomemesherealso, it seems like sometimes switching to gsm only ("2.5G") disconnects me from the web connection, but sometimes it works fine - why?22:09
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jacekowskisometimes phone is connected over 2g sometimes not22:12
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Corsachmhm, I'm sure someone already asked the question, but is the gps available somehow remotely without using gpsd and connecting to a wlan?22:18
Corsac(like, in pcsuite mode or something)22:18
h4waiiAvailable how?22:19
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DocScrutinizer51is there a gnu parted somewhere, for maemo5?22:20
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Corsach4waii: in pc suite mode, pluged via usb?22:22
jacekowskiwell, usbnetworking maybe22:22
Corsacfor gps?22:24
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Corsacha, setup gpsd on the n900 and use that from the computer22:25
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Corsacyeah doable but a bit painful22:26
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trumeenice. html5 audio tag works in Fennec.22:34
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Corsachmhm, and do we have a list of at commands understood by the ttyACM0 device?22:34
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nomemesherewhere is traceroute?22:37
nomemeshereping and nmap are there22:37
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lcuktraceroute isnt normally required, but certainly not missing from maemo http://maemo.org/packages/view/traceroute/22:38
nomemesherewhy is the app manage app so incredibly slow and resource consuming?22:38
nomemeshereso i just #apt-get install traceroute22:39
lcukbecause its trying to manage every version of every package thats in -devel, -testing and extras and every other repo you had22:39
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Chibi-Taigahumm , guys what can it be that the phone have a cpu load of 11-40% all the time22:40
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FIQtt22:48
FIQer22:48
FIQlol changing window randomly22:48
FIQnvm @ ^22:48
Chibi-Taigaguys22:50
Chibi-Taigaanyone encode movies for n900 ?22:50
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MohammadAGChibi-Taiga, yeah, someone even melted his battery when he did that on an overclocked N90022:51
MohammadAGbut yeah, use mencoder22:51
Chibi-Taigai dont oc22:51
Chibi-Taigawell i tryed to play psp encoded videos but they seems to heavy for this phone in sib, and regular player dont even support it22:52
Chibi-Taigaavc main profile lvl 3 mp422:52
Chibi-Taigaodd though22:53
MohammadAGinstall decoders-support22:54
Chibi-Taigai have22:54
Chibi-Taigabut it dont support the psp encoded vids22:54
Chibi-Taigaas far as i knoe psp encoders use ffmpeg, mencoder or x26422:55
Chibi-Taigathe avc i use use mencoder22:55
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ZuccaAnyone noticed that if you use ulv kernel-config settings recording a video always fails..? Is this known and does it cound as kernel-power bug?23:09
h4waiiNo it doesn't.23:09
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Venemogood evening Maemoers23:10
ZuccaI guess It just won't work undervolted then. :)23:10
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Zuccah4waii: Do you know exactly why it fails then?23:11
h4waiiBecause you're starving the processor.23:13
VenemoZucca: what is the problem?23:13
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Zuccah4waii: Well. It seems to work when I lock the frequency to 600MHz but still undervolted.23:14
Chibi-Taigawierd the media play supports by default aav/h264 yet it dont play psp videos of 480x272 h264/avc23:14
Chibi-Taigaaac*23:14
ZuccaVenemo: 23:08:50 < Zucca> Anyone noticed that if you use ulv kernel-config settings recording a video always fails..? Is  this known and does it cound as kernel-power bug?23:15
Zuccacound = count23:15
VenemoZucca, hm, I think it is because of the ulv23:16
luke-jrZucca: are you intentionally asking ridiculously stupid questions?23:17
ZuccaVenemo: It worked undervolted. I just tested by locking the cpu speed to 600MHz.23:17
luke-jrseriously, it sounds like "I never feed my kids. Why won't they get up and do chores?"23:17
Zuccaluke-jr: As I said. It still worked undervolted.23:18
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VenemoZucca: Conclusion: that voltage is not enough for more than 600 Mhz.23:18
luke-jrZucca: it doesn't.23:18
ZuccaSo It maybe because the CPU doesn't raise the frequency fast enough to catch up with the vedeo recording software.23:18
luke-jrthat's what you're complaining about23:19
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VenemoZucca: luke-jr is right23:19
Zuccaluke-jr: Well. Mine didi work.23:19
Chibi-Taigawell if you oc, ocing cpu only wont make that mutch performance you should also oc the ram23:19
luke-jrZucca: good. then stop whining since it works.23:19
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ZuccaSo th eUNDERVOLTING isn't the issue.23:19
ShadowJKhm, interesting. Someone gathered statistics on the 3 operators in .fi. Average 3G -> HSDPA wakeup delay: 1290, 880, 1210 ms (for 3 different operators using same equipment). Average packet size required to transition from 3g to hsdpa: 498, 255, 32 bytes. Idle time in HSDPA before dropping back to 3g: 8, 3, 5 seconds.23:20
luke-jrChibi-Taiga: not sure the CPU and RAM are independent here23:20
Zuccaluke-jr: Am I?23:20
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luke-jrin any case, undervolting or overclocking is utterly stupid23:20
luke-jrheck, even the 600 MHz Nokia overclocks it is bad enough if kept constantly on23:21
Chibi-Taigawell it is good for playing video files ive noticed23:21
Zuccaluke-jr: On ulv CPU runs on 250MHz when idle. I guess it just doesn't raise the frequency fast enough.23:22
ZuccaThat ain't complaining.23:22
ShadowJKSo if two full lines of IRC chat happens at the same time, my N900 goes to HSDPA, and stays there for atleast 8 seconds.. No wonder battery drains in no time on 3g :D23:23
VenemoZucca: [22:18:17] <Venemo> Zucca: Conclusion: that voltage is not enough for more than 600 Mhz -> which part you didn't get?23:23
h4waiithe CPU is rarely ever at idle, FYI.23:23
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Venemoh4waii: it spends most of its time idling23:24
luke-jrZucca: even *normally*, 250 Mhz is buggy23:24
h4waiiIn terms of instructions?23:24
jacekowskifrequency can be changed instantly23:24
ZuccaVenemo: I get all of that. And I know at those voltages 600MHz is the max BUT at that level it can record.23:24
jacekowskialmost instantly23:24
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luke-jrZucca: no, at those voltages, it's not ever acceptable23:25
h4waiiZucca, change your sampling and load rate for higher and faster frequency jumps.23:25
luke-jryou're damaging the CPU no matter what speed you run it at23:25
Zuccaluke-jr: Do I have to shoe how I can record videos on ulv @ 600MHz?23:25
luke-jryou're damaging the CPU no matter what speed you run it at23:25
h4waiiShoe him to death.23:25
jacekowskiluke-jr: undervolting isn't damagining23:25
luke-jrjacekowski: no?23:25
jacekowskino23:25
ShadowJKh4waii, the CPU spends most of its time at 0 MHz 0 Volt, unless you've messed up something :)23:25
jacekowskiundervolting may even make it lifetime longer23:26
jacekowskinot a lot23:26
ZuccaHow undervolting is supposed to _damage_ cpu?23:26
luke-jrZucca: in theory, it's not what it was designed to work with23:26
luke-jrto me, undervolting =~ brown-out23:27
h4waiiShadowJK, so you're trying to tell me that there is 0 draw from proc when at idle?23:27
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luke-jrh4waii: I think he means under 1 volt23:27
jacekowskiluke-jr: brownouts are only dangerous to memory/cache contents23:27
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jacekowskih4waii: yes23:27
ShadowJKh4waii, it's pretty damn close :-)23:27
luke-jrjacekowski: then why do they destroy computers entirely?23:27
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jacekowskiluke-jr: it's ussualy what happens after brownout23:27
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jacekowskiluke-jr: that damages it23:28
luke-jrjacekowski: so surge protection really *is* sufficient⁇23:28
Zuccaluke-jr: To you, yes. But if you have a wire and if you lower the voltage also the current goes down. It does not shorten the life of that wire. Same goes for the CPU.23:28
jacekowskisurge protection isn't instant23:28
VenemoZucca: obviously, increase the voltage if you wanna record at a higher clock, then23:28
jacekowskiZucca: processes in cpu are little bit more complicated23:28
h4waiiLOL23:28
h4waiia CPU is actually just 17 wires23:29
Zuccajacekowski: I just told the basics.23:29
h4waii11267.pts-1.HiNGE23:29
jacekowskiluke-jr: basicaly when brownout happens psu tries to compensate for that and then it may be not able to react fast enough when voltage comes back to normal level23:30
luke-jro23:30
ZuccaBut the basic rule is: udervolting does NOT shorten the life of your cpu.23:30
luke-jrso it's dangerous to PSU :P23:30
SpeedEvilh4waii: The power drawn when idle is enough so that it can last for 200 hours on battery23:30
ShadowJKI'd imagine the mains frequency would be dropping too during a brownout?23:30
jacekowskiluke-jr: because on brownout lot of equipment will switch off and voltage will go higher23:30
jacekowskiShadowJK: yep23:30
h4waiiIf you use your device, it's hardly at idle "most of the time"23:31
luke-jrh4waii: even if you use it23:31
ShadowJKWell when you have it in your pocket it should be at idle most of the time, or else the battery runs out before the end of the day :)23:31
luke-jrh4waii: it's the LCD that draws the power mostly23:31
jacekowskiin worst case grid may separate to protect still working part of network23:31
luke-jrShadowJK: the battery will run out in a few hours usually23:32
luke-jreven in my pocket23:32
jacekowskibecause if it will not separate you may end up with half of country losing power23:32
h4waiiHaha, the battery will run out by the end of a day, regardless. For me.23:32
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ShadowJKluke-jr, mine does a few days when used as a phone23:32
luke-jrShadowJK: to make it last all day, you need to make it useless :P23:32
ShadowJKOf course right now I'm downloading stuff at 5 megabit/s :P23:33
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luke-jrperhaps I need to figure out a way to tell SIP/XMPP to stfu when there's no use23:33
ShadowJKnot using charger cable because only place I found the good signal in this room is charger port down in my coffee cup, on top of the 15" CRT :D23:33
jacekowskiwell, it would be nice if os could be clever enough and synchronise wake ups as much as possible23:33
ShadowJKYeah there's libiphb, but i dont think much anything uses it?23:34
jacekowskiand pause processes that don't have to operate when phone is not used23:34
ZuccaVenemo: The thing I first said here (and my point was) that recording fails if one uses ulv settings. I wasn't complaining about it. I just noticed it. Then after that someone starts to talk to me like I was complete ass. I even investigated the, so called, problem a bit and realized that you can record on ulv, but you haveto to keep the frequency locked to 600MHz to be able to do that, since cpu doesn't "catch" the video processing fast enough.23:34
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ShadowJKAnd QT is getting, or has, timer slewing so that timers eventually converge and fire simultaneously23:34
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* luke-jr wonders how long a system will tolerate its connection window set to 023:34
h4waiiWon't help shit if the kernel isn't tolerant.23:34
jacekowskiluke-jr: quite a long time23:35
luke-jrjacekowski: know any way to use that? ;)23:35
jacekowskiluke-jr: connections can be kept in that state for hours23:35
luke-jrset all TCP windows to 0 when turning screen off…23:35
jacekowskiluke-jr: some DoS exploits23:35
luke-jralthough, then you can miss calls :/23:35
ShadowJKExcept connections to 4chan, 4chan's server drops all 0-window connections on sight23:35
ShadowJKand don't ask me how I discovered this23:35
luke-jrI guess this really does need to be app-level23:36
jacekowskinope23:36
jacekowskikernel can do it23:36
jacekowskiand unless it's something like irc23:36
ShadowJKWell protocol awareness would help alot23:36
jacekowskithat requires ping every so often23:36
luke-jrjacekowski: kernel can't stop traffic except for actual user-needed notifications (calls)23:36
* ShadowJK already does it for IRC sometimes :P23:36
ShadowJKbut I'm using a bouncer and do it on the bouncer's server23:37
SpeedEvilA smart proxy that can filter and aggregate would be lovely23:37
SpeedEvilQuack.23:37
SpeedEvilIncluding web-compressing, and VPN over multiple networks.23:37
luke-jrmaybe use QoS bits?23:37
jacekowskiTOS23:38
luke-jrwhatever23:38
jacekowskibut tos isn't supposed to be used for that23:38
luke-jrjacekowski: why?23:38
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ShadowJKi thought the TOS bits were deprecated23:38
jacekowskiread the rfc23:38
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ShadowJK"VPN over multiple networks" <- what does that mean?23:38
jacekowskilike a roaming23:39
ShadowJKIs that like how my IRC goes over openvpn, and openvpn seamlessly moves from wifi to cellular and back?23:39
jacekowskiyeah23:39
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luke-jrjacekowski: RFC says I can't slow down packets with bulk TOS bits?23:39
jacekowskiluke-jr: RFC specifies what goes into TOS bits23:39
SpeedEvilShadowJK: yes23:40
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Also - rtmp may be blocked if on 2g23:40
jacekowskiluke-jr: and using this bits for something else may break things23:41
SpeedEvilIt's handy for my ISP23:41
SpeedEvilas it sets the TOS bits depending on what queue traffic is in.23:41
SpeedEvilSo I can tell what priority my connections are getting23:41
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LateralushI would highly recommend anyone who is able should stop by the upcoming MeeGo meetup - http://www.meetup.com/SFBay-MeeGo-Network/calendar/14595527/23:44
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luke-jrjacekowski: RFC specifies a bit of TOS for "Prompt delivery is important"23:44
luke-jrjacekowski: why can't that be used to force an aggregate flush?23:45
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jacekowskiit can23:45
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luke-jrso an IP tunnel that has OOB control of flushing (every X minutes, every X bytes, 'now', and "delay" TOS bit)23:48
luke-jrmaybe a minimum precedence level23:48
SpeedEvilluke-jr: something like that23:48
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Adding protocol support  - forex http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:WebProxy23:49
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luke-jrmaybe only flush if low-delay=1 && precedence > priority23:49
luke-jrand flush within 10 seconds if low-delay=1 && precedence > routine23:49
luke-jrSpeedEvil: that's high-level23:50
luke-jrthe IP-level system could work if Asterisk and ejabberd are slightly modified to flag message/call packets as low-delay, immediate (or priority, for text) precedence23:51
SpeedEvilluke-jr: yes, it's high level.23:52
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luke-jranother control for the IP-level design: disable buffering altogether (while the screen is on)23:52
SpeedEvilluke-jr: In principle, it'd be nice to be able to have a 'plug and play' bit of buggering software.23:52
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Which could have high and low level buggering, including protocol aware.23:52
luke-jrSpeedEvil: well, one could always add heureustics to the proxy23:52
SpeedEvilerr23:52
SpeedEvilI should look at the screern while typing.23:53
SpeedEvilI was watching my fish.23:53
luke-jriptables can set TOS bits in layer-723:53
luke-jrbut sure23:53
SpeedEvilWhat might also be interesting - in principe - would be per-user or process TOS23:53
luke-jrmight be nicer to use plugins for that23:53
luke-jrbut it would probably use more CPU on the server23:53
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luke-jrI think it's better left to netfilter ☺23:54
luke-jrthen you can do another unrelated things wiht the protocol inspection results23:54
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mc_teo`the last few days ive been constantly getting updates for pyQt demo and full binding packages23:56
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mc_teo`everytime i try to update them, i get a corrupt package error23:56
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mc_teo`any others getting this, and any idea how to fix23:57
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