| BaTmAn^ | I guess so | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| BaTmAn^ | though I guess they wouldn't want to waste their money on lawsuits | 00:00 |
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| ShadowJK | So like when sts started doing custom firmware-type thing, Nokia in the end started paying him to make it easier for people to do that kind of stuff | 00:01 |
| ShadowJK | when that dude was making custom android firmwares, google sued him :P | 00:02 |
| BaTmAn^ | yeah I suppose | 00:02 |
| BaTmAn^ | I was reading the maemo forum a few days ago | 00:02 |
| BaTmAn^ | he's done well | 00:02 |
| BaTmAn^ | though he was never going to not do well | 00:02 |
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| BaTmAn^ | What are you up to these days? | 00:03 |
| ShadowJK | just working and working | 00:03 |
| BaTmAn^ | snap | 00:04 |
| BaTmAn^ | hence why I'm here at 10pm | 00:04 |
| BaTmAn^ | what you working as? | 00:04 |
| ShadowJK | monkey | 00:04 |
| andax | well, as it seems to me, firmware still lacks peek, poke and call functionality from good old Zilog times... it is practically impossible to write code that could communicate "directly" with the hardware. | 00:04 |
| BaTmAn^ | :) | 00:04 |
| BaTmAn^ | do nokia still restrict the full use of the hardware then? | 00:05 |
| BaTmAn^ | surely they know how to speak to it | 00:05 |
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| ShadowJK | ofono is opensauce and speaks to the modem afaik | 00:05 |
| ShadowJK | though ofono wasn't ready for maemo5, but it's in meego I think | 00:06 |
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| ShadowJK | MeeGo = Maemo + Intel's Moblin merged | 00:06 |
| ShadowJK | andax: Hey I talk directly to the battery meter hardware and battery charger chip :p | 00:06 |
| BaTmAn^ | I see | 00:06 |
| BaTmAn^ | the shame is, nokia always made decent kit | 00:07 |
| BaTmAn^ | I was the biggest nokia fan going | 00:07 |
| BaTmAn^ | then something happened, maybe they got too complacent | 00:08 |
| skyscraper | SpeedEvil: so... backed up now, moved orig X11 and inserted your X11 dir... now rebooted... will see XD | 00:09 |
| andax | ShadowJK: sounds promising but i guess it depends on a lot of software to do that, notwithstanding | 00:09 |
| ShadowJK | Well having dev tools from stoneage, operating system so complex not even nokia itself could write sw that worked on more than 2 models, and the whole symbian signed thing... in a world of apps, not a good idea that was | 00:10 |
| ShadowJK | andax, i do it from a shell script | 00:11 |
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| andax | ShadowJK: As long as the shell is not integrated into the firmware, it is not as "directly" as i mean when mentioned "peek, poke and call". Would be completely new to me if the firmware understands shell scripts on its own. | 00:13 |
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| ShadowJK | I i2cget and i2cset are the peek/poke equivalents for reading/writing arbitrary stuff on the i2c bus. I'm calling those from my script | 00:15 |
| andax | It is less known but firmware of IBM PCs contained a kind of BASIC interpreter or such... Maybe the current maemo devices have something similiar but i did not find anything | 00:15 |
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| andax | It would greatly help to write efficient software | 00:16 |
| ShadowJK | Not really | 00:16 |
| BaTmAn^ | it would greatly help to stick to one lot of software across the spectrum | 00:16 |
| ShadowJK | hw is so complex it'd be silly for every piece of software to contain their own 10000 lines of code to access hw | 00:17 |
| ShadowJK | why we have drivers, apis and libraries | 00:17 |
| andax | which makes firmware useless as it is | 00:17 |
| andax | so, following your argumentation, it would not need firmware at all | 00:17 |
| ShadowJK | Depends what kind of firmware you're talking about | 00:18 |
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| ShadowJK | it makes sense to have wifi firmware and so on, because then the wifi hw can be fixed if a bug is found, and it makes sense that the wifi does independently all real-time processing so that the ARM cpu that eats the most power can be switched off instead of constantly reading and trying to demodulate a 2.4Ghz signal | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | in the old days firmware was burned into roms permanently :/ | 00:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | today it's in EEPROMs and x-raying your device has chances to render things like ALS or g-meter dead | 00:23 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | or maybe even LP5523 LED controller | 00:24 |
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| andax | allright, when firmware depends on APIs, drivers, Libraries et cetera, it gets very complex, but i think the firmware sould provide the functions of the hardware and not much more than that. That would exclude dependency on changeable APIs, drivers, Libraries et cetera. | 00:25 |
| andax | sould -> should | 00:25 |
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| ShadowJK | Most people advocate it should be the other way around ;p | 00:26 |
| andax | when the hardware is outdated, a firmware update does not help | 00:27 |
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| ShadowJK | and firmware doesn't depend on anything but the hw | 00:28 |
| andax | in my point of view, trying out how to best demodulate a 2.4Ghz signal should not be a firmware issue | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/demodulate/dissect/ | 00:28 |
| ShadowJK | You'd rather have the cpu butn through a battery in 4 hours doing that task? | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | demodulation is hardwired | 00:29 |
| * ShadowJK remembers the "softmodems" of dialup era :( | 00:30 | |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm, those were 2400Hz though | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | not 2.4GHz | 00:30 |
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| ShadowJK | :) | 00:31 |
| ShadowJK | and required P166 with MMX | 00:31 |
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| * andax still has some 56k modems around (soft and hard ones) | 00:31 | |
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| skyscraper | WAAAAAAA | 00:33 |
| skyscraper | got it WORKING | 00:33 |
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| skyscraper | used the created "test.xkb" from xubuntu 10.04 with "xkbcomp -xkb :0 test.xkb" and imported in maemo via "xkbcomp -i 4 test.xkb :0" | 00:33 |
| skyscraper | working numbers etc. with normal bluetooth keyboard | 00:34 |
| zash | skyscraper: created with what? | 00:34 |
| zash | is there a secret keyboard layout creator I don't know about? :O | 00:34 |
| skyscraper | hm.. caps doesnt work.. | 00:34 |
| skyscraper | zash the bluetooth keyboard works very well in xubuntu 10.04 on netbook without any config... so i exported xkb and imported into maemo | 00:35 |
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| zash | oh | 00:36 |
| andax | skyscraper: interesting, i tried to sync a bluetooth keyboard and mouse but didnt work out of the box. my maemo device recognized the keyboard and mouse but did not sync. | 00:37 |
| skyscraper | andax tried out a long time for this... i think i have to modify the xkb a bit, because caps doesnt works 100% correctly - but i think its a way to use the whole bt keyboard on n900 without all those xkb-chinook and setxkbmap etc | 00:38 |
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| skyscraper | so... finally: i got the Logitech MediaBoard Pro to work with n900 WITH de-layout and numbers | 00:39 |
| skyscraper | only have to fix caps | 00:39 |
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| skyscraper | hm and ctrl doesnt work too, but i think its possible | 00:40 |
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| andax | mine is a Medion with de_CH layout (Aldi) | 00:42 |
| andax | :-) | 00:42 |
| skyscraper | andax: and it works? or works not? | 00:43 |
| andax | does not work, so far... my N900 showed the device, i tried to sync but that did not work (mouse did not work either) | 00:43 |
| skyscraper | andax did you tried to connect i manually via dbus-send? | 00:44 |
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| skyscraper | WHOOPS | 00:44 |
| skyscraper | seems to modify a bit to MUCH when i load the xkb xD - actually my hardware keyboard doesnt works great xD | 00:45 |
| andax | skyscraper: no, i only tried via bluetooth-GUI | 00:45 |
| andax | (the ordinary out of the box GUI) | 00:45 |
| andax | o_O | 00:46 |
| skyscraper | andax try following: | 00:46 |
| andax | i think you have a serious problem now skyscraper ... | 00:46 |
| andax | or does it work "partially" | 00:46 |
| skyscraper | dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.bluez \/ org.bluez.Manager.DefaultAdapter | 00:47 |
| skyscraper | andax: 1. it works partially 2. bluetooth keyboard works nice 3. i've created and xkb of before ;) 4. i have sshd running | 00:47 |
| skyscraper | no problem | 00:47 |
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| maddler | hey all! | 00:47 |
| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:47 |
| andax | okay, not too bad then :D | 00:47 |
| skyscraper | andax: when you type this, youll get a message like: object path "/org/bluez/xxx/hci0" | 00:48 |
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| skyscraper | andax: then type: dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.bluez \/org/bluez/(IDFROMMSGBEFORE)/hci0/dev_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX \org.bluez.Input.Connect | 00:50 |
| skyscraper | andax: replace XX_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX with bluetooth hw-addr | 00:50 |
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| skyscraper | and the (IDFROMMSGBEFORE) with the 3digit number between /org/bluez/ *** /hci0 from the first command | 00:51 |
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| mece | 'ello | 00:51 |
| skyscraper | this should connect your bt keyboard as input device | 00:51 |
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| skyscraper | andax: are you away? | 00:54 |
| andax | no, i am trying... tried teh first line but get a error | 00:54 |
| skyscraper | which? | 00:54 |
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| andax | dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.bluez \/ org.bluez.Manager.DefaultAdapter | 00:55 |
| skyscraper | "dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.bluez / org.bluez.Manager.DefaultAdapter" | 00:55 |
| andax | bluetooth is on, i have root | 00:55 |
| skyscraper | so its correct, sry | 00:55 |
| skyscraper | try again ^^ | 00:55 |
| skyscraper | and... case sensitive, i think^^ | 00:55 |
| PolarFox | Let's try to recover those keyboard lights and that blinking led, shall we? :) | 00:56 |
| andax | looks much better now ;) | 00:56 |
| skyscraper | dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.bluez /org/bluez/(YOURID)/hci0/dev_xx_xx_xx_xx_xx_xx org.bluez.Input.Connect | 00:56 |
| PolarFox | And I didn't report a bug on that phone mic + flash video issue.. gotta remember to do that too.. :) | 00:56 |
| skyscraper | now this: | 00:56 |
| skyscraper | replace YOURID and bluetooth mac | 00:57 |
| andax | method return sender=:1.33 -> dest=:1.328 reply_serial=2 | 00:57 |
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| andax | object path "/org/bluez/900/hci0" | 00:57 |
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| skyscraper | ok now dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.bluez /org/bluez/900/hci0/dev_xx_xx_xx_xx_xx_xx org.bluez.Input.Connect | 00:58 |
| skyscraper | with the bluetooth mac of your keyboard | 00:58 |
| skyscraper | hum... netbook battery is ~5% - i think i must go off in a moment^^ | 00:59 |
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| andax | i guess the mac is printed in the handbook, be right back... | 00:59 |
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| mango_make | Hi, I used to have a working SDK - Then PR1.2 was anounced as coming and an update broke veryhitng so that things i built on the host PC would not run on the n900. I gave up on it. I have now had PR1.2 on the device for some time so decided to tru and get an SDK up and running again. I have it all setup and can build binaroes - but yet again they wont run on the n900!!! the libraries its links against are all newwer vers | 01:06 |
| mango_make | ions than what is on the phone. How on earth am i suposed to use this> | 01:06 |
| mango_make | ? | 01:06 |
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| andax | Ah, got it ( with "hcitool scan") | 01:06 |
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| mango_make | hmm - ok, they are not newer they simply dont exist on the device .. this is just the simple hellow world example :( | 01:11 |
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| lcuk | mango_make, please explain how you know which libraries are which and what actually happens when you run the app direct on your device | 01:13 |
| lcuk | and which scratchbox target are you using to build from | 01:14 |
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| mango_make | This is just a gtk based simple hello world - previosuly i was develpoing a Qt app, but for now i simply get | 01:15 |
| mango_make | ~/src $ ./helloworld | 01:15 |
| mango_make | ./helloworld: error while loading shared libraries: libhildonmm-1.0.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 01:15 |
| mango_make | helloworld was built and transfered to the devuce by exbox/eclipse | 01:16 |
| mango_make | esbox | 01:16 |
| mece | mango_make, apt-get install libhildonmm-dev could perhaps help? | 01:17 |
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| mango_make | mece, This is not a common lib to be using then? as surely it owul dalready be on the phone? or is this becasue it inlcude debugging symbols something? I'm not really interested in the gtk stuff anywa - was just trying to get setup, so will try with my Qt app again.. just need to build libmpdclient again.. | 01:24 |
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| lcuk | mango_make, when you install an application it brings in the required dependencies, if you just run a binary it hasnt had that opportunity | 01:25 |
| mece | mango_make, I have no idea. dpkg -l libhildonmm-dev will tell you if it's installed. | 01:25 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/view/libhildonmm/ | 01:26 |
| lcuk | libhildonmm is available from extras | 01:26 |
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| lcuk | if you have never *installed* anything which needs it, it wont exist | 01:26 |
| mango_make | lcuk, yeah I realise that - but couldn't imagine a simple helloworld example which i asusmed linked agaisnt the already installe gui framwork required any extra deps | 01:26 |
| lcuk | the error you are getting is not strange or curious or unknown, next time you get it - just try to find the library and install it | 01:27 |
| mece | curious, wesnoth i386 version built with autobuilder works in sdk... armel version segfaults on n900. | 01:27 |
| lcuk | mango_make, you are using c++ | 01:27 |
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| lcuk | had you done the same with c, I would agree | 01:27 |
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| lcuk | but libhildonmm is a shim between real libraries | 01:27 |
| lcuk | :) and no, the system doesn't obviously have it immediately :P | 01:28 |
| mango_make | ah! k, the main framework is all c! ok. that makes sense | 01:28 |
| asj | (really though if you want to write C++ why not just use qt?) | 01:30 |
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| lcuk | asj, technically qt is not c++ | 01:30 |
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| mango_make | asj, My real app is qt, i was just trying the simple hellow world app form the file->new menu to see if it was now all working, hit a snag and jumped to the wrong conclusion. | 01:31 |
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| asj | mango_make: :) | 01:32 |
| mece | is there a way to get a package to extras without autobuilder? | 01:32 |
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| mece | prebuilt or built elsewhere? | 01:33 |
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| unluckier | hi! | 01:34 |
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| lcuk | mece, hmm whats up with autobuilder? | 01:40 |
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| andax | skyscraper: are you there? | 01:40 |
| andax | Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "Connect" with signature "" on interface "org.bluez.Input" doesn't exist | 01:40 |
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| mece | lcuk, still wanting to get wesnoth fixed... | 01:41 |
| mece | hmm.. | 01:41 |
| mece | fribidi | 01:41 |
| mece | wtf is that? | 01:41 |
| satmd | fribidi? | 01:43 |
| mece | yah.. | 01:43 |
| satmd | iirc, linux software uses it for ltr/rtl input | 01:43 |
| satmd | right-to-left character input | 01:43 |
| satmd | bidirectional | 01:43 |
| mece | noticed that autobuilder gets no on fribidi.. | 01:43 |
| lcuk | mece whats up with wosneth? (what is it in the first place) | 01:44 |
| mece | lcuk, it's a pretty popular game. That works if built with sdk and segfaults if built with autobuilder. | 01:44 |
| mece | wesnoth | 01:44 |
| mece | The Battle For Wesnoth, actually. | 01:44 |
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| lcuk | mece, the autobuilder pretty much is just a bigger sdk | 01:45 |
| satmd | I wonder if there's a log of why it fails | 01:45 |
| mece | lcuk, well, it still builds a faulty wesnoth. | 01:45 |
| lcuk | have you discussed this at other times to try and identify cause? | 01:45 |
| lcuk | do you have buildlogs? | 01:45 |
| satmd | faulty? | 01:45 |
| mece | satmd, i didn't say it failed. | 01:45 |
| mece | satmd, the binary just doesn't work. | 01:45 |
| satmd | mhm, segfault or how so? | 01:46 |
| satmd | not that I know much of sdk/building maemo stuff, this is just interesting to me | 01:47 |
| mece | yep segfaults. | 01:47 |
| mece | hmm wait a sec... | 01:47 |
| lcuk | mece, gdb and backtrace it | 01:47 |
| mece | fribidi has to do with fonts then? | 01:47 |
| mece | lcuk, did. | 01:47 |
| lcuk | hmm | 01:49 |
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| mece | wesnoth build diff: http://pastebin.com/NmdXjPTW healthy to unhealthy | 01:59 |
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| mece | ooh well. I'm out. | 02:07 |
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| andax | Could someone please tell me whats wrong with this line? | 02:45 |
| andax | dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.bluez /org/bluez/900/hci0/dev_12_34_56_68_97_8E org.bluez.Input.Connect | 02:45 |
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| Termana | I'm trying to boost my social media status (eg. by getting more twitter followers etc.) | 02:53 |
| Termana | Posting bullshit and hash tagging the living daylights out of the bullshit seems to be working, I get a new follower who I don't know. | 02:54 |
| Termana | got* | 02:54 |
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| e-yes | i've got 1-2 follower a week even without posting BS:) | 02:58 |
| e-yes | twitter sux imho | 02:58 |
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| Termana | e-yes: :P I'm also starting a blog and planned youtube videos. I'm just trying to see how far I can boost it. | 03:00 |
| Termana | And then I can make money selling tweets! :P Kidding | 03:00 |
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| e-yes | world goes to butt | 03:03 |
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| e-yes | btw, i must record new video. with voicecalls and data in nitdroid:D | 03:04 |
| ptl | voicecalls??? | 03:04 |
| e-yes | time for silly pr | 03:04 |
| ptl | is it ready? finally??? | 03:04 |
| e-yes | actually, calls | 03:04 |
| e-yes | just calls:) | 03:04 |
| e-yes | without voice yet | 03:05 |
| ptl | ?? | 03:05 |
| satmd | lol. | 03:05 |
| satmd | -voice+video? | 03:05 |
| satmd | or really call without voice | 03:05 |
| satmd | so more like a ping+pong? | 03:06 |
| e-yes | only signalling. without cmt speech bridged to alsa | 03:06 |
| luke-jr | nah | 03:06 |
| luke-jr | just prerecorded phone calls made to look like a call | 03:06 |
| e-yes | shit, my myth is busted! | 03:07 |
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| ptl | well, at least it means it is close to voicecalls (I guess) | 03:07 |
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| Termana | e-yes: have you coded in gprs into ofono-ril? Or still working on it? | 03:09 |
| e-yes | already done. it was relatively easy (all hardwork made by ofono developers) | 03:11 |
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| e-yes | GET_IMSI, SETUP_DATA_CALL, DEACTIVATE_DATA_CALL - only requests to RIL library that are needed (i assume network registration was coded before) | 03:15 |
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| ieatlint | i like that with maemo, i can make an application that queries the phone's IMSI number and sends it to me without the user ever seeing a warning | 03:17 |
| lcuk | Termana, you should link to your twitter when you do :p | 03:17 |
| lcuk | and you have one new follower | 03:17 |
| lcuk | http://twitter.com/lcuk :P | 03:17 |
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| e-yes | CSD - i dont even know 'from what side going to go with it' | 03:21 |
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| raster | mew | 03:27 |
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| mortini | oink | 03:28 |
| Termana | hello raster | 03:28 |
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| raster | mortini: burrp | 03:32 |
| raster | Termana: olleh | 03:32 |
| mortini | heynow. | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | oioioioi | 03:32 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer51: boip | 03:36 |
| Termana | I think someone reading the logs are going to think the room went crazy at this point | 03:38 |
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| Termana | but the reality is that we are always crazy | 03:38 |
| mortini | raster: boink over ip? how naughty. | 03:38 |
| * pigeon prefers rfc1149. | 03:39 | |
| mortini | idk, i used to sort of be in this channel that had like 10 stoners in it with 2 bot that would talk to each other, and the stoners would try to get the bots to talk to each other. | 03:39 |
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| Termana | mortini: lol - that's funny without being a stoner :P | 03:45 |
| mortini | go on sometimes and see one of the stoners had talked to the bots for 2-3 hours straight | 03:47 |
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| pyther | Hi | 03:51 |
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| pyther | What package might include these dev files? error: stdint.h: No such file or directory | 03:51 |
| pyther | I'm trying to compile rtmpdump | 03:51 |
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| johnx | mornin' | 05:08 |
| b-man` | hey johnx :) | 05:09 |
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| Mr_Nobu | For a good time in pennsylvania try Brandy 267-614-9744 Nudes for first 100 callers | 05:13 |
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| pyther | Does anyone have an fairly updated mplayer on their n900? | 05:35 |
| johnx | I think I do | 05:36 |
| johnx | why? | 05:36 |
| pyther | johnx: I need a current version of mplayer so I can pipe rtmpdump to mplayer | 05:37 |
| pyther | the version avaliable in the repo doesn't like the piping | 05:37 |
| pyther | it works on my desktop though | 05:37 |
| johnx | aaah, well, I just have the version from the repo | 05:37 |
| johnx | I thought you meant up-to-date compared to the repo | 05:38 |
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| pigeon | will mkfifo help? | 05:38 |
| pyther | pigeon: no I tried mkfifo with the same results, it wants the file header info | 05:39 |
| pyther | mplayer r31774 (desktop) doesn't care or will at least play the audio | 05:39 |
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| pyther | Is there anyway get the source of how mplayer in the repos is built? | 05:40 |
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| johnx | yup | 05:41 |
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| pyther | johnx: where can I look? | 05:41 |
| johnx | It should be on the package page | 05:41 |
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| johnx | every package built has a page that shows the dependencies and has the source link | 05:42 |
| johnx | http://maemo.org/packages/ | 05:43 |
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| pyther | johnx: thanks I found mplayer but I don't see any place to download source or anything like that | 05:45 |
| johnx | here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/mplayer/1.0svn20091221-4/ | 05:46 |
| johnx | next to "source" | 05:46 |
| pyther | Thanks I must be blind! | 05:46 |
| johnx | no worries | 05:46 |
| johnx | I missed it first time around too | 05:47 |
| johnx | :) | 05:47 |
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| pyther | now only if the sdk will work, I tried earlier and it hung downloading a file :-/ | 05:47 |
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| johnx | well, I can't help you with the SDK | 05:47 |
| johnx | that's a whole 'nother beast | 05:47 |
| pyther | would be nice if iheartradio would release a nice simple moblie flash page | 05:48 |
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| pyther | It seems like the SDK installer is hanging | 06:04 |
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| pyther | "Get:450 http://repository.maemo.org freementle/sdk/free maemo-sdk-dev 5.0+0m5 [2308B]" | 06:05 |
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| pyther | No bandwidth is being used nor system resources | 06:06 |
| johnx | can you wget it and put it into place? | 06:07 |
| pyther | I"m not sure where it would go | 06:08 |
| johnx | /var/lib/apt/cache | 06:08 |
| johnx | with the rest of the *.deb files | 06:08 |
| pyther | Do I need to do this on a debian based system? | 06:09 |
| pyther | I don't have a /var/lib/opt folder | 06:09 |
| pyther | */var/lib/apt | 06:09 |
| johnx | gah | 06:09 |
| johnx | got it backwards | 06:09 |
| johnx | it's /var/cache/apt/archives | 06:09 |
| johnx | obviously I can't remember paths properly unless I'm typing them into a shell | 06:10 |
| johnx | I blame tab-complete ... | 06:10 |
| pyther | well I don't have /var/cache/apt either | 06:10 |
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| johnx | well that's ... interesting | 06:11 |
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| pyther | though I'm runnning archlinux a non-debian based distro | 06:12 |
| johnx | yeah. I mean the /var/cache/apt that's *inside* the scratchbox chroot ... | 06:12 |
| pyther | where is the chroot ? | 06:12 |
| lcuk | pyther, the instructions are based around debian as you are aware, speak with your arch buddies about using scratchbox in it | 06:12 |
| lcuk | as an arch fan, you should be used to handling this :) | 06:13 |
| lcuk | morning johnx \o | 06:13 |
| johnx | mornin' lcuk | 06:13 |
| pyther | I figured the installer would be distro independent :-/ | 06:13 |
| pyther | maybe the virtual sdk image would work better? | 06:13 |
| lcuk | pyther, when is that ever the case | 06:13 |
| lcuk | pyther, for you using an advanced custom distro, I would say yes | 06:14 |
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| * lcuk cannot sleep | 06:15 | |
| pyther | Seems like I should probably just install debian and then the sdk on top of it | 06:15 |
| pyther | should debian testing work? | 06:15 |
| lcuk | sigh | 06:16 |
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| pyther | lcuk: I'm open to just about anything | 06:16 |
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| pyther | best would be if someone could compile an up-to-date mplayer for me | 06:16 |
| lcuk | then see which distro the instructions are for and use that one | 06:17 |
| lcuk | or use the prebuild virtual image if its available to you | 06:17 |
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| pyther | it says Debian based distribution | 06:18 |
| lcuk | johnx, been upto any exciting wii based hacking fun recently? | 06:18 |
| pyther | so is one distro better than other for using the sdk exclusively? | 06:18 |
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| johnx | hmm? I figured the VM image of the SDK would work pretty well | 06:19 |
| johnx | is that not the case anymore? | 06:19 |
| johnx | lcuk, nah. The most interesting part of the hardware is actually the wiimotes themselves | 06:19 |
| johnx | and I'm not big on UI | 06:19 |
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| pyther | well the last release was in late 2009 | 06:19 |
| pyther | it looks like the sdk was update in may of this year | 06:20 |
| johnx | bummer | 06:20 |
| lcuk | if the may2010 is available it should be pretty much right | 06:20 |
| pyther | lcuk: not in that virtual image, I'll guess I'll download debian testing install it and then install the sdk | 06:21 |
| lcuk | pyther, people with ubuntu seem to have less issues using the gui installed | 06:21 |
| lcuk | installer | 06:21 |
| pyther | ok then I'll install ubuntu | 06:21 |
| pyther | to much work to compile mplayer :P | 06:21 |
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| lcuk | indeed it is, what feature do you need? | 06:22 |
| lcuk | and where are you looking at the latest version? | 06:22 |
| pyther | I want to pipe output from rtmpdump into mplayer (doesn't work with the mplayer avaliable) | 06:22 |
| lcuk | well are you sure it will work if you build the latest? | 06:23 |
| pyther | lcuk: this is where I am working http://maemo.org/packages/view/mplayer/ | 06:23 |
| lcuk | are you sure the latest will even build, ie are you setting self up for more problems once this stage is done | 06:23 |
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| pyther | lcuk: I'm pretty sure it will work, it works on my desktop | 06:23 |
| lcuk | :) | 06:24 |
| lcuk | thats not the same | 06:24 |
| pyther | lcuk: I was going to check out the same version that I have on my desktop, if the build fails it will be a result of the arch differnces | 06:24 |
| pyther | one of the mplayer guys said mplayer was looking for the header info which it can't get from the pipe | 06:24 |
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| pyther | once I get mplayer going I should be able to listen to iheartradio without the terrible and slow web ui that I have to use currently | 06:26 |
| lcuk | pyther the maemo mplayer appears to have maemo patches | 06:26 |
| pyther | lcuk: how where you able to tell? | 06:27 |
| lcuk | does your branch have those? | 06:27 |
| lcuk | well grep your source for: | 06:27 |
| lcuk | * set _HILDON_DO_NOT_DISTURB property | 06:27 |
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| lcuk | johnx, wiimotes | 06:28 |
| lcuk | did you see the inverted AR stuff I have been playing with? | 06:28 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM | 06:29 |
| lcuk | is the wiimote protocol known? | 06:29 |
| johnx | it's bluetooth | 06:29 |
| lcuk | i know that | 06:29 |
| lcuk | but is the full command protocol known | 06:30 |
| johnx | and there are already drivers for the N900 unless I'm quite mistaken | 06:30 |
| pyther | lcuk: how did you findout that the maemo mplayer has patches, where did you look to findout this info? | 06:30 |
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| lcuk | ie to simulate a real wiimote | 06:30 |
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| lcuk | pyther, you gave the link | 06:30 |
| johnx | lcuk, aaaah. now that might be a tall order | 06:30 |
| lcuk | it shows versions and changelog | 06:30 |
| lcuk | the diablo maemo branch has at least 29revisions | 06:30 |
| lcuk | I can't tell how many precisely for the fremantle version | 06:31 |
| lcuk | but theres certainly enough potential there | 06:31 |
| lcuk | for you to look before you leap | 06:31 |
| lcuk | so grep that thing I asked | 06:32 |
| lcuk | and if its not there, its likely we have slightly forked difference | 06:32 |
| lcuk | and the task for you does not become "to compile mplayer" | 06:32 |
| lcuk | but to merge and rebuild | 06:33 |
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| lcuk | johnx, inverted AR uses a set of lights | 06:33 |
| pyther | tux:mplayer $ grep -ri 'HILDON_DO_NOT_DISTURB' * come up empty handed :( | 06:33 |
| lcuk | detected using the camera | 06:33 |
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| lcuk | (sounding familiar) | 06:34 |
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| johnx | yup. same principle as the wiimote | 06:34 |
| lcuk | pyther, on a rating of difficulty, I would put mplayer higher than the kernel for building :) | 06:35 |
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| pyther | lcuk: so if I really wanted to do this I would have to checkout the 20091221 release (which is in freemantle now) compare the orginal code with the modified code and then merge it with new sources, correct? | 06:36 |
| johnx | uhm, it should have a set of patches that apply to 20091221, so you *should* just have to rework those patches to apply to current, one at a time | 06:36 |
| lcuk | sounds reasonable if you are compfortable doing that | 06:36 |
| pyther | johnx: there are no patches in that source tarball | 06:37 |
| lcuk | indeed johnx | 06:37 |
| lcuk | not a task for the faint of heart | 06:37 |
| lcuk | :p | 06:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 06:37 |
| pyther | and considering I can mudle around in python I believe the task is way to big for me | 06:38 |
| Bobbe | lcuk, what lights does the camera detect? (in that youtube video you posted) | 06:38 |
| Bobbe | (video = awesome, btw, congratulations) | 06:38 |
| lcuk | Bobbe, :) thanks | 06:38 |
| lcuk | in the video, it looks for a triangle of 3 white brightest spots | 06:38 |
| lcuk | I have since altered the algoythm to use green lights | 06:38 |
| lcuk | algorithm | 06:38 |
| pyther | so now I need to make a script that will watch stream.flv and if it gets to big nuke rtmpdump | 06:38 |
| lcuk | since white is bad around normal life | 06:39 |
| pyther | that would work right? | 06:39 |
| lcuk | pyther, just watch it on your desktop tonight :P | 06:39 |
| Bobbe | lol | 06:39 |
| Bobbe | but will green suffice? | 06:39 |
| Bobbe | I mean | 06:39 |
| lcuk | and spend a week learning | 06:39 |
| pyther | I can do rtmpdump -r rtmp://stream/ -o stream.flv; mplayer stream.flv | 06:39 |
| Bobbe | you will need something green to reference all the time | 06:39 |
| pyther | lcuk: it is an audio stream and I like listening while going to bed :D | 06:40 |
| Bobbe | lcuk, and in the video, was the algorithm pre-programmed to look for specific triangulated white patterns to display specific screens? | 06:40 |
| Bobbe | or did it it have an initial guideline and built from that as it went? | 06:41 |
| pyther | I'll write a script that will start the stream, run for an hour, and then nuke the flv file | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: couldn't the algo learn to learn - err, autocalibrate to arbitrary 'landmarks' | 06:41 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/n900_lightdots_50_3.png | 06:42 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20100713_231803.liqcam_run1.scr.png | 06:42 |
| lcuk | no DocScrutinizer | 06:42 |
| lcuk | Bobbe, ^ those 2 pictures | 06:42 |
| johnx | well, first we should develop a general purpose AI ... | 06:42 |
| lcuk | it looks for the 3 bright spots | 06:43 |
| lcuk | in a triangle with a ratio of 2:2:1 | 06:43 |
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| lcuk | I can pick out size and rotation | 06:43 |
| pyther | lcuk and johnx: thanks for your help, although not the news I was looking forward to hearing | 06:43 |
| Bobbe | just like a gps would do | 06:43 |
| johnx | pyther, hang on a sec | 06:44 |
| Bobbe | with satellites | 06:44 |
| lcuk | Bobbe, this works to <cm resolution | 06:44 |
| lcuk | and indoors | 06:44 |
| Bobbe | I know | 06:44 |
| Bobbe | I'm just talking about the inherent principle | 06:44 |
| Bobbe | with three spots you triangulate a position, or its relative change | 06:44 |
| lcuk | I did jokingly think about using star constelations | 06:44 |
| Bobbe | lol | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | you could do with wavelets or somesuch - if you gad 50 time the comuting grunt | 06:44 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, send the image off to amazon ec2? :> | 06:45 |
| pyther | johnx: ok | 06:45 |
| lcuk | it doesnt need that much grunt | 06:45 |
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| lcuk | its a low res image | 06:45 |
| lcuk | and reasonably accurate now | 06:45 |
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| lcuk | :P | 06:45 |
| lcuk | johnx, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdVqdfFdL3Q would be the followup I eep considering | 06:46 |
| Bobbe | is it the camera sensor that detects the bright spots? | 06:46 |
| lcuk | yes | 06:46 |
| lcuk | and if you get a group of devices all showing the same image, you can make a tiled ui or picture viewer :) | 06:47 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxyeQk7Gmxs | 06:47 |
| Bobbe | I had seen that one | 06:47 |
| Bobbe | had me wondering how the hell you did that for like days | 06:48 |
| Bobbe | the same bright spots, I gather | 06:48 |
| lcuk | :) had everyone wondering | 06:48 |
| lcuk | yeah | 06:48 |
| lcuk | i have sent a mail to the guy who did facial tracking | 06:48 |
| lcuk | i excluded it myself because the sensor is too dark when I come to hacking | 06:48 |
| lcuk | so needed active bright spots | 06:48 |
| Bobbe | I saw the facial tracking video | 06:49 |
| Bobbe | "when I come to hacking"? | 06:49 |
| lcuk | nighttime | 06:49 |
| lcuk | and with only a lamp on | 06:49 |
| Bobbe | ah ok lol | 06:49 |
| Bobbe | it's something I always thought | 06:50 |
| Bobbe | facial recognition is awesome | 06:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pick 3 significant unique picture elements. For next frame - shift x+- to best match first mark, do same for y+-, rotate around first mark til best match for 2nd mark. Zoom along 1st<->2nd with 1st fixed for best match of 2nd. Zoom 90° angle from 1st-2nd to best match 3rd... | 06:50 |
| Bobbe | but wouldn't you need some form of it that worked in any case? | 06:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: ^^^ | 06:50 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, does not work collaboratively | 06:50 |
| lcuk | and would drift | 06:50 |
| lcuk | the principle is the same as normal AR which use black and white barcodeish markers | 06:51 |
| lcuk | but again, I couldnt use them | 06:51 |
| lcuk | too dark to reliably detect | 06:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 06:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 06:51 |
| Bobbe | why green then? why is it more reliable than the other colors? | 06:52 |
| lcuk | well white was original | 06:52 |
| lcuk | and what those videos are on | 06:52 |
| lcuk | but theres a lot of bright white lights around | 06:52 |
| lcuk | which in daytime prevent it working | 06:52 |
| lcuk | lights in the house | 06:52 |
| lcuk | daystar | 06:52 |
| lcuk | etc | 06:52 |
| lcuk | so I added a greenfilter | 06:52 |
| lcuk | and it works in much more conditions :) | 06:53 |
| Bobbe | it now searches for greenish white spots | 06:53 |
| lcuk | bright green spots | 06:53 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/n900_lightdots_50_3.png | 06:53 |
| lcuk | i just tinted that | 06:53 |
| lcuk | I hold one device over | 06:53 |
| johnx | pyther, yeah, I'm having trouble understanding if those patches mentioned in the changelog are already applied or if they get applied during build | 06:53 |
| * lcuk wants a high5 app ;) | 06:53 | |
| johnx | sorry for the bad news. It might be possible to just backport the patch that enables rtmp without headers | 06:54 |
| * DocScrutinizer throws three high efficiency high power green LEDs at lcuk | 06:54 | |
| lcuk | please DocScrutinizer :) | 06:54 |
| lcuk | they would have to work in parallel from usb | 06:54 |
| johnx | what about IR LEDs? | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | no problem | 06:54 |
| lcuk | the hue isn't that differential | 06:54 |
| lcuk | and the camera cover isn't filtered specifically to it | 06:55 |
| lcuk | so its not as easy or usable | 06:55 |
| johnx | IR? It seems to pick it up well enough | 06:55 |
| Bobbe | is the camera software open sourced? | 06:55 |
| lcuk | johnx, it picks it up | 06:55 |
| lcuk | but its almost white in color | 06:55 |
| lcuk | so would have original problem | 06:55 |
| johnx | aaaah, I see what you mean | 06:55 |
| lcuk | and besides, I couldnt display them on another n900 screen ;) | 06:55 |
| Bobbe | by software I mean driver | 06:55 |
| johnx | for some reason I imagined the software "rounding it down" to something visible. | 06:56 |
| pyther | johnx: thanks for looking into it, I think it would be easier at this point to save the stream to a file and play it at the same time | 06:56 |
| lcuk | Bobbe, you would be interested in fcam | 06:56 |
| * johnx admits that optics are not his field of specialty | 06:56 | |
| lcuk | not computer optics at any rate! | 06:56 |
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| Bobbe | not me, you lol | 06:57 |
| * lcuk feels like his ear is giving birth | 06:57 | |
| Bobbe | I couldn't start tapping at the surface of what it could provide | 06:57 |
| lcuk | Bobbe, I am happy enough using gstreamer and v4l2 | 06:57 |
| Bobbe | do you think liqbase will ever get final? | 06:57 |
| Bobbe | it insists on finding itself doing new stuff all the time | 06:58 |
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| lcuk | the library is mostly there now, apps are rounding on good stability, I will never stop making things in it | 06:58 |
| Bobbe | what's the current status? | 06:59 |
| lcuk | its still got some bugs, one detected here: http://liqbase.net/liq.20100820_comparison_yuv_rgb_x11.htm | 06:59 |
| * Bobbe stopped following up on liqbase when his N800 screen got "uncalibrateable" | 06:59 | |
| lcuk | hmmm status | 06:59 |
| lcuk | trying to sort out integration niggles | 06:59 |
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| lcuk | i have been working on specific other more general things though so its been in the background for a while | 07:00 |
| Bobbe | I couldn't see a damn thing different from my browser | 07:00 |
| lcuk | lol Bobbe are you on n900? | 07:01 |
| Bobbe | no I'm getting mine Thursday | 07:01 |
| Bobbe | I'm on my laptop now | 07:01 |
| Bobbe | MacBook | 07:01 |
| lcuk | ahh | 07:01 |
| Bobbe | turned it sideways and then I saw it | 07:01 |
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| lcuk | there should be gradient differences in the photos | 07:01 |
| Bobbe | just the titlebar or sth else? | 07:02 |
| lcuk | the yuv is nice and smooth, its conversion to rgb has gradients | 07:02 |
| lcuk | look at the + button mostly | 07:02 |
| lcuk | the title is something else relating to the theme | 07:02 |
| Bobbe | holy mother of god that's supposed to stand out on a 3.7" screen? | 07:03 |
| lcuk | Bobbe, "The effect is not noticable under normal circumstances, but when switching modes I can see it clearly" | 07:03 |
| Bobbe | I had to stare at the buttons in a way I would never do in real life situations in a 13.3" to see it | 07:03 |
| lcuk | it does stand out though :P | 07:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/180768/ | 07:04 |
| Bobbe | yeah, but when do we switch modes? | 07:04 |
| lcuk | when it pans to the dashboard, it switches in place | 07:04 |
| lcuk | and it was an observation someone else made | 07:04 |
| Bobbe | it's nice that you're this attentive to fixing the minimum details | 07:04 |
| lcuk | awesome DocScrutinizer | 07:04 |
| lcuk | heh | 07:05 |
| Bobbe | but it is not quite the show-stopper is it | 07:05 |
| lcuk | oh that, no | 07:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: 120mW | 07:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | 30° aperture | 07:05 |
| lcuk | but I still havent gotten round to putting the optify block in the library postinst | 07:05 |
| lcuk | pr preinst or wherever its needed | 07:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | 10Cd | 07:05 |
| Bobbe | and that is supposed to take a long time? | 07:06 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, and 3 of those from usb will work? | 07:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, even from N900 USB :-) | 07:06 |
| Bobbe | 2.6 euros on a single led? | 07:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | 4V 30mA each | 07:06 |
| lcuk | Bobbe, patches welcome | 07:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | Bobbe: that's a 10000mCd LED | 07:06 |
| Bobbe | just saw that | 07:07 |
| Bobbe | and you need three of those to generate the bright green spots | 07:07 |
| lcuk | Bobbe, I have put my energies towards fremantle as a whole | 07:08 |
| lcuk | and when I do stop work I normally knackered | 07:09 |
| * lcuk optified most of the filesystem to learn how to do it, but havent applied the 10 line patch to lib :S | 07:09 | |
| Bobbe | lol | 07:09 |
| Bobbe | don't worry | 07:09 |
| Bobbe | Good things come to those who procrastinate | 07:09 |
| lcuk | (and you think I am joking - pr1.2 included maemo-optify-boottime) | 07:09 |
| Bobbe | when you say you're putting your energies towards maemo | 07:10 |
| Bobbe | you mean you're working with fremantle as a whole? | 07:10 |
| Bobbe | you're developing the OS? | 07:10 |
| lcuk | yes | 07:10 |
| Bobbe | Nokia hired you or you just have a craving for keyboards being beaten to a pulp? | 07:11 |
| lcuk | i work for Collabora, through there I am involved with the AF team :) | 07:12 |
| Bobbe | AF = ? | 07:12 |
| lcuk | application framework | 07:12 |
| ds3 | autofocus? | 07:12 |
| * lcuk beds anyway I need to try and sleep of my earbirth | 07:13 | |
| Bobbe | cya man | 07:14 |
| lcuk | \o | 07:14 |
| Bobbe | and congrats again | 07:14 |
| Bobbe | great work | 07:14 |
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| lcuk | ta gnite Bobbe johnx | 07:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: for your usecase though the 45° apperture type might be better: http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/180770/ | 07:14 |
| johnx | 'night lcuk. hope the ear feels better | 07:14 |
| lcuk | yeah johnx me too, every time I move it feels like its goin to explode | 07:15 |
| johnx | lcuk: go to a doctor :P | 07:16 |
| lcuk | been, twice now - first time I found out eardrum had ruptured, then once it decided to get infected :( | 07:17 |
| * lcuk has horsepills | 07:17 | |
| johnx | ah good | 07:17 |
| johnx | now go get plenty of rest :P | 07:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: if you consider building such a USB thing - you need 3 pcs 33R series resistors for the 3 LEDs | 07:17 |
| lcuk | hard when i cant lie down | 07:17 |
| lcuk | hence me up now :P | 07:18 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, i have 3 leds now with no resistors | 07:18 |
| lcuk | but i am off, speak tomorrow | 07:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | (usb_red)-[1->3]-(33R)-(LED)-[3->1](usb-black) | 07:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | get well soon! night | 07:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hmmpf... /usr/lib/mce/* | 08:03 |
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| khertan_ | Hi all ! | 09:10 |
| Stskeeps | morn khertan_ | 09:10 |
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| * khertan_ ktest | 09:11 | |
| khertan_ | hum ssh to my home computer then -> irssi. it s a bit slow | 09:14 |
| khertan_ | but seems supporting better small network interuption | 09:15 |
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| khertan_ | sfr sucks they block this url : http://spyderlib.googlecode.com/files/spyder-1.1.4.tar.gz | 09:20 |
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| Jaffa | Morning! | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | morn | 09:42 |
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| kerio | Khertan: xchat + bouncer > irssi | 10:09 |
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| iPeter- | hi | 10:12 |
| Adeon | kerio: but that's not 1337 | 10:12 |
| iPeter- | is ther any way to disable mobile stylish pages on opera. i hate when it goes to mobile facebook | 10:12 |
| kerio | Adeon: it is if you run it on your own server | 10:13 |
| kerio | iPeter-: settings | 10:13 |
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| iPeter- | kerio: cant find right one, could you help, lol | 10:14 |
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| iPeter- | hmm now im wondering how to shange language | 10:16 |
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| kerio | iPeter-: wrench icon, settings | 10:18 |
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| iPeter- | yea, cant find language section | 10:19 |
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| crashanddie | greetings | 10:21 |
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| iPeter- | :o | 10:21 |
| Juozapas | what you using for google reader posts reading ? | 10:22 |
| kerio | Juozapas: reader.google.com | 10:22 |
| Juozapas | it terrible to navigate via n900 browser | 10:23 |
| Juozapas | that page | 10:23 |
| kerio | it's awesome | 10:23 |
| kerio | use the hotkeys | 10:23 |
| Lynoure | Are google reader posts somehow different from normal feeds? | 10:23 |
| Lynoure | ...not that I read feeds on my N900. | 10:24 |
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| Juozapas | Lynoure: im looking for some program synchronizited with google.reader.com | 10:24 |
| kerio | jk to go down and up, v to open the article, push u to disable the sidebar, m to keep unread, g+letter to change feeds | 10:24 |
| Juozapas | :) | 10:24 |
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| kerio | there's grr, but i've found all programs that sync wih google reader a bit lacking | 10:26 |
| Juozapas | yeah, now im using grr but it isnt really great | 10:27 |
| Wolfie | isn't the fundamental problem with that that reader doesn't have an API? | 10:30 |
| kerio | it's because the website is perfectly fine | 10:30 |
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| Lynoure | Juozapas: so you sometimes read on the site, but sometimes not? | 10:31 |
| iPeter- | is here opera users on n900 | 10:32 |
| Lynoure | Juozapas: or some other use case? | 10:32 |
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| Juozapas | Lynoure: sometimes i read on computer, sometimes on n900 | 10:33 |
| Lynoure | Juozapas: computer = on the site? | 10:35 |
| Lynoure | or computer = some other feed aggregator? | 10:35 |
| Lynoure | Because if you don't actually use the site at all, you might have better luck finding as solution that syncs your reading state. (not that I know one right away) | 10:36 |
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| crashanddie | "A Polish man living in Germany went about his business for about five years without noticing he had been shot in the head because he was drunk when it happened. Police in the western city of Bochum said on Tuesday doctors found a .22 caliber bullet in the back of his head after the 35-year-old went to have what he thought was a cyst removed." | 10:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | iPeter-: why? would you push to get opera on maemo only if there are some users? | 10:42 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer51: did you shoot some poor polish guy in the head? | 10:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not yet :-D | 10:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | though lemme try to remember what happened 5 years ago | 10:43 |
| crashanddie | good point | 10:44 |
| crashanddie | 5 years ago, at this very day and moment... I was probably sleeping | 10:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | meh, think I've never been in Bochum | 10:44 |
| Juozapas | Lynoure: yeah, on computer == on the site | 10:44 |
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| blubbi | anyone here who can help me precompiling python files during installation? I guess it should somehow be possible in the debian rules file | 10:52 |
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| crashanddie | why do it during installation? | 10:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I'm not even sure python can do a mere compiler run without actually executing the program | 10:56 |
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| marmoute | DocScrutinizer51: it does ! | 10:58 |
| kerio | it can create the bytecoded | 10:58 |
| kerio | bytecode | 10:58 |
| kerio | it's not a compilation | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yepyep | 10:59 |
| kerio | it's just the internal representation of a python file | 10:59 |
| kerio | you just skip the parsing | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's a JIT 'compile' | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pfcode | 11:00 |
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| marmoute | DocScrutinizer51: "import compiler" | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | p-code | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | forgot what the 'p' is for, some 15 years ago | 11:01 |
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| Stskeeps | lo dneary | 11:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | para, pseudo, pre parsed... | 11:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | marmoute: what's 'import compiler' doing? | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | marmoute: aah, interactive. then call some method from compiler to generate pyo without executing py? | 11:04 |
| frals | blubbi: dh_pysupport or something similar | 11:05 |
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| blubbi | frals: I tried it but it fails... | 11:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | blubbi: honestly, why do you want to do this? | 11:06 |
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| Venemo | hey | 11:07 |
| blubbi | DocScrutinizer51: because on the first run all the files are compiled but it takes to long and the program is terminated | 11:07 |
| Venemo | what would happen if I reformatted the N900's VFAT partition with NTFS? | 11:07 |
| blubbi | when you start it for the second time it works | 11:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mhm | 11:07 |
| blubbi | frals: here's my attempt: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/254211/ | 11:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'd think there is some flaw or race in the program | 11:08 |
| blubbi | I tried it with /usr/bin/py_compilefiles but the buildsystem does not have this file | 11:08 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer51: it's not JIT | 11:08 |
| kerio | it's just the parse of the text file | 11:09 |
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| Venemo | can Maemo read/write NTFS partitions? | 11:10 |
| rmrfchik | i saw -ntfs package | 11:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | blubbi: you'll want to ship a helper prog wit your app to do the 'compiling' on target system, rather than on host | 11:10 |
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| blubbi | DocScrutinizer51: so I should include some sort of compile_all.py in my app and run it via the rules file? | 11:12 |
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| kerio | it's... useless? | 11:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | blubbi: or rather fix the root cause for app failing on first start with 'compiling' | 11:13 |
| blubbi | but on the wiki was this way suggested | 11:13 |
| kerio | how big are your files? | 11:13 |
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| crashanddie | kerio: about this big: |<---------------->| | 11:13 |
| crashanddie | (not to scale) | 11:13 |
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| kerio | you should read less bash | 11:14 |
| kerio | it's bad for you | 11:14 |
| blubbi | DocScrutinizer51: Well, it does not fail, it just takes too long | 11:14 |
| crashanddie | haven't read bash in ages | 11:14 |
| crashanddie | kerio: last time I checked, bash.org was down, they said they didn't have the monies to host it anymore | 11:14 |
| kerio | blubbi: byte-compiling python won't help | 11:14 |
| kerio | srsly | 11:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: you'll need a 'touch *.pyc *.pyo' in postinstall, when you ship those files | 11:15 |
| blubbi | kerio: it does | 11:15 |
| frals | blubbi: for fmms i have: dh_pysupport /opt/fmms | 11:15 |
| blubbi | frals: in which section? | 11:15 |
| dneary | Hi Stskeeps | 11:16 |
| frals | blubbi: where you have dh_pysupport atm | 11:16 |
| dneary | How're things? | 11:16 |
| dneary | You're nokia.com now, right? | 11:16 |
| blubbi | frals: sweet, I'll give it a shot | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: still my own company, but no longer under the maemo.org umbrella | 11:16 |
| frals | blubbi: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras_free_source/fmms/1.2.4/ if you want to grab the debian/ folder and check yourself.. last i checked it worked like t should :P | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: things are good but meego feature freeze is giving us all grey hairs :) | 11:17 |
| dneary | bugs like bug #10634 make me want to pull my hair out. | 11:17 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10634 library.maemodocs.nokia.com is not indexable by search engines | 11:17 |
| dneary | Thanks povbot | 11:17 |
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| dneary | Stskeeps, I've been out of the loop the last 2 months - verry busy with other projects, and then with vacation | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: vacation, what's that again? :P | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: of meego n900 news, we have weekly images for people to try out and the nokia 'blobs' like BME are going redistributable for non-commercial purposes | 11:18 |
| Zucca | I found out that I can preload/cache map tiles with Mappero. Then I found out that Maep uses jpeg tiles on google maps ans mappero uses png. Oh why, oh why?!? :E | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: .. and even imgtec have allowed redistributable 3d accelerator libs, so things are changing in the right direction | 11:19 |
| kerio | Zucca: looks like you need some ImageMagick! | 11:19 |
| Zucca | kerio: Alredy running! :D | 11:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: maybe even patched in to either one of those apps | 11:20 |
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| Zucca | Btw. Is there just a simple map preloader program that would show a progress of downloading? Since Mappero just almost freezes while downloading the maps. O.o | 11:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lol | 11:21 |
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| dneary | Stskeeps, Vacation is when you go somewhere so remote you can't get internet. | 11:25 |
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| Stskeeps | ah, yeah, we have those spots.. | 11:26 |
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| kerio | dneary: unless you don't work | 11:29 |
| kerio | in that case, vacation is when you exist :D | 11:30 |
| dneary | kerio, Not sure I follow you... if you don't work, then vacation is when you exist... does that mean it's when you work? | 11:30 |
| kerio | no, i mean | 11:31 |
| kerio | i don't work | 11:31 |
| kerio | i'm always on vacation | 11:31 |
| kerio | (still studying) | 11:31 |
| dneary | ah | 11:31 |
| kerio | internet helps though | 11:32 |
| kerio | irc on the beach ftw | 11:32 |
| Dassu | Failure will follow | 11:32 |
| Dassu | sunlight is no good for the LCD | 11:32 |
| Dassu | E-ink is required. | 11:32 |
| kerio | huh? | 11:32 |
| Dassu | maan, I would love to have an E-ink debian tablet | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | Dassu: n810 was excellent for sun :P | 11:33 |
| kerio | 1) transreflective | 11:33 |
| kerio | 2) i'm not under direct sunlight | 11:33 |
| Dassu | well, afaik E-ink acts just like normal paper in the sulight | 11:33 |
| kerio | e-ink *is* paper | 11:36 |
| kerio | not just under sunlight | 11:36 |
| crashanddie | e-ink debian tablet? | 11:36 |
| crashanddie | Cuz Gnome must look so good at .3 fps? | 11:36 |
| crashanddie | remember vnc on 56k? | 11:37 |
| crashanddie | e-ink is ok to read text, things that change every 30 seconds | 11:37 |
| crashanddie | for anything else, it's utter crap | 11:37 |
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| Dassu | crashanddie: I know that | 11:38 |
| Dassu | I specifically would like to have an tablet or drawing and reading | 11:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but you could have a wound-up strip of e-ink paper to just pull out of a device | 11:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | basic setup similar to thermopaper printers | 11:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | display update done during pull out | 11:42 |
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| thomases | any idea how I could debug why a service with a script in /etc/init.d does not start at boot time ? | 11:50 |
| thomases | I doublechecked all the obvious things, like list of runlevels, header, ... | 11:50 |
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| obsidieth | have you guys been having issues with skype call quality | 12:02 |
| obsidieth | from my laptop its fine, but the n900 is apparently rather bad | 12:02 |
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| crashanddie | obsidieth: not that I can speak of | 12:16 |
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| crashanddie | obsidieth: have you checked from multiple wifi access points? | 12:23 |
| crashanddie | obsidieth: or is it a mic problem? | 12:23 |
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| obsidieth | hmm. im using the mic it came with | 12:33 |
| obsidieth | and the wifi works fine on the laptop, but ive not another to test from | 12:33 |
| crashanddie | ~psm-issue | 12:38 |
| crashanddie | ~fact psm | 12:38 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer51: help me out here | 12:38 |
| Appiah | http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM) ? | 12:38 |
| crashanddie | obsidieth: sounds like the PSM is getting in the way. The best way to test it is to try a number of different wifi networks, and see the quality improvies | 12:39 |
| crashanddie | /vies/ves/ | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | wazzup? | 12:39 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer51: what's the keyword for the PSM again? | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~listvalues psm | 12:39 |
| crashanddie | is it like not replying or something? | 12:40 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'psm' by value (1): binfmt-464c. | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~listkeys psm | 12:40 |
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| infobot | Factoid search of 'psm' by key (9): wifi-psm ;; psm ;; psm-fault ;; gampsmite #DEL# ;; gampsmack (.*) #DEL# ;; gampsmite ;; weathercode kpsm ;; gampsmack #DEL# ;; epsmerge. | 12:40 |
| crashanddie | ~psm-fault | 12:40 |
| infobot | power save mode is a wifi thingie, has nothing to do with the screen. What it basically means is that the n810 is saying "I'm sleeping for 580ms, keep my messages 'till then", but the router doesn't understand this, and sends everything through immediately, and then the n810 asks "Hey bro, you got anything for me?" And the router doesn't reply, as it doesn't understand what he's asking... | 12:40 |
| ShadowJK | that's strange | 12:40 |
| * ShadowJK finds battery at 85% after being on charger overnight | 12:41 | |
| ShadowJK | bme... | 12:41 |
| crashanddie | ShadowJK: my LED kinda decided to stop working | 12:41 |
| crashanddie | ShadowJK: and we all know how unreliable the UI is to indicate whether it's really charging or not | 12:41 |
| ShadowJK | it's charging | 12:43 |
| Appiah | can anyone recommend a good setup for encrypting your data on a n900? | 12:43 |
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| crashanddie | don't put sensitive data on it | 12:43 |
| crashanddie | it doesn't support remote wipe, it doesn't support hardware encryption, just don't. | 12:43 |
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| Duckboot | Idea for an app - Filtering on incoming SMSes, and autreply on filter-logic. | 12:45 |
| tybollt | cool when will you upload it | 12:47 |
| Duckboot | Example: Wifey "Can you buy this and that when you leave work" - Reply "Sorry - very busy - cannot do that". | 12:48 |
| Duckboot | tybollt: When I get the time to do it. | 12:48 |
| * Duckboot is overloaded at work atm. | 12:48 | |
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| crashanddie | Duckboot: it's OK, you're on IRC, you don't need to pretend like you're talking to your boss | 12:54 |
| Duckboot | crashanddie: ;-P | 12:55 |
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| * ShadowJK looks at logs | 13:00 | |
| ShadowJK | so it had charged full, and then ran on battery until 81% | 13:01 |
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| tybollt | BIND10 - written in python | 13:01 |
| tybollt | \o/ | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, that'd be actually sane. And native bq24150 | 13:01 |
| ShadowJK | actually it terminated charge at 98% and 150mA current | 13:02 |
| ShadowJK | it resumed charge at 3980mV | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bme might have suffered a I2C collision stalling connection to bq27200 so resulting in it stopping that weird microcycling | 13:03 |
| stef_204 | hi, anyone able to use adblockplus with the maemo broser in nokia n900? tried to install it many times and get it to work but no go | 13:03 |
| stef_204 | *browser | 13:03 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, also I started bme very cold, reporting.design is 1700 | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm | 13:04 |
| ShadowJK | I dont think ive ever started it so close to 2400 before | 13:04 |
| Scelt | stef_204: try to restart browser | 13:04 |
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| stef_204 | Scelt: done that and rebooted, forget it, no joy at all | 13:05 |
| stef_204 | the Filter List just doesn't install in the adblockplus extension which remains empty/void of filters | 13:05 |
| tobis87 | stef_204: this didn't worked for me as well, i use adflashblock-css. | 13:05 |
| crashanddie | ok, what the hell is NLDFTA? | 13:06 |
| stef_204 | tobis87: yes but that's for blocking flash and i dt want to to that | 13:06 |
| crashanddie | The only thing I can come up with is "No Logicial Definition For This Acronym", but I doubt'd be it. | 13:06 |
| tobis87 | stef_204: ok, but it also blocks ads. | 13:06 |
| stef_204 | tobis87: yes but probably only ads which use flash | 13:07 |
| crashanddie | stef_204: you're actually dismissing someone's advice, who obviously is in the same scenario as you, based on a half-assed assumption deduced from a name? | 13:08 |
| stef_204 | crashanddie: I am only discussing it. and waiting for tobis87' answer. no need for you to but in | 13:09 |
| stef_204 | *butt | 13:09 |
| crashanddie | lol | 13:09 |
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| stef_204 | tobis87: my assumption, correct or incorrect? | 13:10 |
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| crashanddie | "I'm proud to announce adflashblock-css's release to extras-devel. A lot of people have used my last package, Adblock Plus, and some have had very mixed results due to the way microb works with extensions. I decided to go another route and to provide ad blocking through CSS which should be a lot less... random." | 13:12 |
| crashanddie | "I also added a form of flashblock, also done through CSS. When a flash animation is loaded on a page, it will be replaced with a grey square telling you that it's flash and if you click, the flash animation will be loaded and played." | 13:12 |
| tobis87 | stef_204: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=521927&postcount=34 | 13:13 |
| stef_204 | tobis87: tx | 13:14 |
| crashanddie | stef_204: so, to answer your question: yes, your assumption was incorrect | 13:14 |
| stef_204 | crashanddie: do you have the link to the page which has the data you pasted? | 13:14 |
| crashanddie | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43753 | 13:14 |
| crashanddie | it's also the first result when you google "adflashblock-css" | 13:15 |
| stef_204 | ok great. thanks | 13:15 |
| crashanddie | np | 13:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | crashanddie: you wasted a great opportunity to throw lmgtfy | 13:16 |
| crashanddie | I don't lmgtfy | 13:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | it quitematches my sarcastic humor :-P | 13:17 |
| tobis87 | Quite a lot of work to get encryption working on the n900, dm-mod,ko, dm-crypt.ko, omap-aes.ko, sha1-generic.ko, sha256-generic.ko, omap-sha1-md5.ko, cryptsetup... | 13:21 |
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| tobis87 | I was thinking about getting swap encrypted (key file /dev/urandom since the n900 has a hwrng) and after that using it only as a backingstore for ramzswap... /dev/mmcblk0p3 <- /dev/mapper/swap0 <- /dev/ramzswap0 (with 32mb) | 13:25 |
| crashanddie | n900 has a hwrng? | 13:26 |
| tobis87 | yes, build in kernel | 13:26 |
| crashanddie | err | 13:26 |
| crashanddie | how can HARDWARE be built in the kernel? | 13:26 |
| cehteh | tobis87: do you have compcache for the n900? | 13:26 |
| tobis87 | the driver for it is in the kernel, check /proc/crypto, there's also a /dev/hwrng entry. | 13:27 |
| crashanddie | ok thanks | 13:27 |
| tobis87 | tobis87: yes, but only without the kernel patch, the kernel patch is not compatible with the nokia stock kernel. | 13:27 |
| tobis87 | argh I meant cehteh | 13:27 |
| tobis87 | cehteh: it does work quite nice... | 13:28 |
| cehteh | i run the power kernel .. didnt checked if they added compcache | 13:28 |
| cehteh | what kernel do you run, your own? | 13:28 |
| tobis87 | crashanddie: oh, i missed something, i also need rngd then. | 13:29 |
| cehteh | i know that it is quite nice, waiting for it packaged since ever | 13:29 |
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| tobis87 | cehteh: no it's not in the stock kernel, i only compiled the module. I modified rcS to modprobe it after every reboot and also modified the fstab autogeneration file to point to ramzswap0 | 13:30 |
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| cehteh | ah nice | 13:31 |
| cehteh | prolly i should do that too | 13:31 |
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| tobis87 | cehteh: i compiled it on the device. i did apt-get build-essentials, extracted the kernel headers in /opt/usr/src and linked it to /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1/build. | 13:32 |
| cehteh | thanks .. i should try that | 13:33 |
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| tobis87 | cehteh: but be carefull. I have replaced multiple times the wrong rcS... there is one in /etc/init.d and in /etc/event.d... I placed the modprobe one line before swapon -a | 13:35 |
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| cehteh | tobis87: i completely commented out all the nokiaisms and written my own scripts and fstabs for pulling filesystems up | 13:36 |
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| cehteh | the script which generates the fstab makes assumptions which are just broken | 13:36 |
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| cehteh | i was just to lazy to build the ramzswap yet in hope someone will package it, how about you? | 13:37 |
| tobis87 | cehteh: ok, i just wanted to warn you. yes, it is broken. i did more a hack than a proper solution. | 13:37 |
| cehteh | btw i have much better success with 2 ramswap devices .. the first one without backing swap and higher priotity | 13:38 |
| cehteh | and then second takes the rest with backing device | 13:38 |
| cehteh | but beware the mount from busybox cant handle swap priorities | 13:38 |
| cehteh | you possibly have to compile your own mount command duh! | 13:39 |
| tobis87 | cehteh: nah, i don't even have scratchbox running here. i could post the kernel module and the scripts. but i don't have the power kernel running here. | 13:39 |
| cehteh | (i also considering to have smaller same pri swap on emmc and µSD) | 13:40 |
| cehteh | effectively raid this for better performance | 13:40 |
| cehteh | but i am not sure how well it scales | 13:40 |
| tobis87 | cehteh: busybox is crap anyway... have you seen that there is no useradd program? you have to get it from extra-devel, i needed it for sshfs. because there is no fuse group | 13:40 |
| cehteh | i added a fuse group by hand | 13:40 |
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| cehteh | vipw/vigr | 13:41 |
| cehteh | or maybe completely by hand .. cant remember | 13:41 |
| tobis87 | cehteh: raid is an overhead. i also have a raid 5 on my pc, but i added the swaps are all seperate partitions | 13:41 |
| cehteh | well raid0 in that case | 13:41 |
| tobis87 | cehteh: i'm a little bit paranoid in that case, I have 3 raid1 partitions, boot, sabayon, ubuntu and 1 raid5 data... and i also have an external raid0 where i backup my data with rsync | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~nuke messybox | 13:43 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at messybox ... B☢☢M! | 13:43 | |
| tybollt | raid? | 13:43 |
| tybollt | sweet jeebus | 13:43 |
| tybollt | I need me a proper RAID10er on my N900 | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | messybox even missing nice :-S | 13:44 |
| cehteh | just swap of same priority, not dedicated raid | 13:44 |
| tobis87 | tybollt: on my pc, and i only mention it because cehteh was refering to raid. | 13:44 |
| cehteh | the kernel balances swap of same prio over the device on its own *like* raid0 .. but it isnt a dedicated raid device | 13:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | *utils-gnu ftw | 13:44 |
| tobis87 | cehteh: yes, that is what i did as well | 13:45 |
| obsidieth | mmm. disappearing widgets too | 13:45 |
| obsidieth | i think i should reflash. | 13:45 |
| cehteh | tobis87: and raid5 is of course among the slowest raid levels.. at least when it comes to writing | 13:45 |
| cehteh | (okok raid6 is even worse) | 13:45 |
| jacekowski | if you have dedicated controller with cache doing that stuff then it doesn't matter | 13:46 |
| tobis87 | cehteh: yes but raid0, is not really a raid. and with raid1 you don't have any speed improvement | 13:46 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: does utils-gnu come with a real 'mount' iirc that would be utils-linux which isnt available to my knowledge | 13:46 |
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| cehteh | tobis87: raid1 has almost linear performance improvement on reads .. | 13:47 |
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| tobis87 | cehteh: yes, but no writing improvements. | 13:48 |
| jacekowski | rfaid10 | 13:48 |
| jacekowski | raid10* | 13:48 |
| cehteh | well .. *much* better than raid5 anyways | 13:48 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: not really | 13:48 |
| tobis87 | very intersting article on raid's, but only in german http://www.linuxtechnicalreview.de/Themen/Performance-and-Tuning/I-O-Scheduler-und-RAID-Performance | 13:49 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: raid5/6 is quite fast in terms of read speed | 13:49 |
| cehteh | i saied write speeds | 13:49 |
| jacekowski | write speeds are fast as well | 13:49 |
| cehteh | and software raid5/6 in the linux kernel is quite slow | 13:49 |
| jacekowski | yeah, becuase of parity calculations | 13:49 |
| cehteh | (writes!) | 13:49 |
| tobis87 | and this http://www.linuxtechnicalreview.de/Themen/Storage-und-Backup/Neue-RAID-Level-im-Ueberblick | 13:49 |
| jacekowski | but if you have fast cpu | 13:49 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: yes | 13:49 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: it's fast | 13:49 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: raid5/6 is one of fastest raids | 13:50 |
| cehteh | not only because the calculation but you have to read data for the caclulation before you can write | 13:50 |
| jacekowski | nope | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | cehteh: seems mount isn't in my current collection of repos | 13:50 |
| jacekowski | because you update whole block | 13:50 |
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| jacekowski | and block is already in cache | 13:50 |
| jacekowski | i have numbers for raid5/6 and as long as cache can deal with writes smaller than block size it's quite fast | 13:52 |
| tobis87 | how can i measure the speed of the hwrng on the n900? Should dd if=/dev/hwrng of=/dev/null and kill -USR1 (pid of dd) work? | 13:53 |
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| cehteh | yep | 13:54 |
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| tobis87 | ok, cryptsetup is in extra-devel, but if it's fast enough i need someone adding rngd to extra-devel | 13:56 |
| cehteh | but you better use the hwrng to seed the kernel rng (using a small daemon for it) | 13:56 |
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| cehteh | someone told me to use encryped filesystem without performance problems on the n900 | 13:57 |
| cehteh | of course you can always push it with bulk io | 13:57 |
| cehteh | that wont work .. | 13:57 |
| tobis87 | yes, this doesn't look nice... i need to autostart cryptsetup, rngd and whole bunch of kernel modules need to be loaded. | 13:57 |
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| tobis87 | cehteh: Yes, i'm in contact with the developer of the hardware crypto acceleration drivers for the n900. | 13:58 |
| tobis87 | cehteh: http://rapidshare.com/files/414690756/omap-hw.tar.gz | 13:59 |
| cehteh | nah no time | 13:59 |
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| tobis87 | cehteh: the modules are already compiled, you only need to insert them. it should already speed up aes for wifi. | 14:00 |
| tobis87 | cehteh: and you need to update nolo first. | 14:00 |
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| Khertan_ | Morning all ! | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | wtf? update NOLO??? | 14:03 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer51: yep, it configures m-shield differently | 14:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: where's your master thesis about bootloader on N900? About time you publish it! | 14:07 |
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| jacekowski | i have bits of .txt files with notes | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | BLARRGH! http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12316&contentId=4629 | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | every second buzzword makes me feel like vomiting | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | why is industry never stopping to brainwash us about security=limitation of freedom and reducing user control, and rights=restrictions management | 14:12 |
| Stskeeps | because not everyone is a smelly gnu hippie who smells of dead cheese | 14:13 |
| jacekowski | well, m-shield has loads of security stuff | 14:13 |
| jacekowski | hardware accelerated AES | 14:13 |
| jacekowski | and stuff | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly there's not a single 'benefit' mentioned on this site I would even just tolerate on my device | 14:13 |
| jaska | indeed, mostly fascist/bigbrother -applications :) | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 14:14 |
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| tobis87 | Argh!!! Busybox dd doesn't show the speed... I wanted to get the speed of /dev/hwrng >/dev/null | 14:28 |
| tobis87 | oh, i'm lucky there is gdd :-D | 14:29 |
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| tobis87 | ok. /dev/hwrng has a speed of 2.7kB/s, but it only has a certain amount of data, if you do dd to long, you won't get any data from it | 14:37 |
| cehteh | tobis87: as i saied, you usually use a daemon to add it as another entropy source to the kernel rng | 14:38 |
| cehteh | you dont want to pull entropy directly from it, thats way to expensive | 14:39 |
| tobis87 | cehteh: yes i know, but it shouldn't just stop working like /dev/random does | 14:39 |
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| cehteh | dev/random doesnt stop, it just becomes very slow when the pool dried out | 14:39 |
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| cehteh | and hwrng has no pool i guess | 14:40 |
| tobis87 | yes, and therefore I want hwrng to feed data into /dev/random, but the hwrng also stops after some time | 14:40 |
| thresh | isnt urandom the preferred way anyway? | 14:40 |
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| tobis87 | thresh: no, because it is no true random data | 14:41 |
| cehteh | for what do you want to use it? | 14:41 |
| thresh | tobis87: thanks, got it | 14:41 |
| tobis87 | thresh: swap encryption, ok might be good enough for that. | 14:42 |
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| thresh | yeah yeah understood. | 14:42 |
| cehteh | urandom is good enough | 14:42 |
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| tobis87 | cehteh: yes, i just thought why shouldn't i use it if it's there, but since it is not like the padlock hwrng which doesn't dry out, it doesn't make sence. strange through why does the n900 need it? | 14:44 |
| sharpneli | Urandom is quite good enough. And as the hwrng feeds it more entropy constantly it's quite hard to predict it. | 14:44 |
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| tobis87 | wtf? Initialize PRNG pool with the HW RNG. Slow, but that's ok. dd if=/dev/hwrng of=/dev/urandowm bs=$URANDOM_POOLSZ count=1 <- Found that in /etc/event.d/rcS-late | 14:47 |
| tobis87 | and I wanted to reinvent the wheel, urandom already gets entropy from hwrng. But why is this needed? I don't see any default use on the n900? | 14:49 |
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| jacekowski | you have to seed urandom | 14:55 |
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| jacekowski | well, you don't have to because it would get seeded from /dev/random | 14:56 |
| tobis87 | jacekowski: yes, but a driver for a hwrng only to seed urandom? maybe /dev/random would be to slow on boot time | 14:56 |
| jacekowski | i'm not sure how it's done on n900 | 14:57 |
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| sharpneli | IIRC /dev/random and /dev/urandom access the same entropy pool | 15:00 |
| sharpneli | And writing to both does exactly the same thing. | 15:00 |
| tobis87 | CRYPTO_XTS is not set, that means only aes-cbc-essiv is possible, well essiv would be good enough for swap, right? | 15:01 |
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| lcuk | morning guys \o | 15:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | lo lcuk - hows life? | 15:04 |
| lcuk | less painful this morning | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | good | 15:04 |
| lcuk | swelling hasn't gone down but I got some sleep | 15:04 |
| lcuk | :) | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I remebered a really working home remedy from my granma, but you were asleep | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | small piece of onion in some floss | 15:06 |
| lcuk | where would I put said piece of onion | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I generally don't think good of such receipes | 15:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | but this one really worked for me | 15:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | wrap in some wadding or floss or what it's called at tip of qtips | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | then loosely put in ear | 15:08 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, I cannot put anything in or near my ear | 15:15 |
| lcuk | the doctor couldnt even put his doofer in there | 15:15 |
| lcuk | the canal is completely closed with swelling | 15:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | have you had antibiotics? | 15:16 |
| lcuk | yes | 15:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Do you have a dremel? | 15:17 |
| lcuk | :D | 15:17 |
| lcuk | not a bad idea | 15:17 |
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| Appiah | :D | 15:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | damn :-S | 15:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | antibiotics are supposed to significantly improve situation within max 48h. If not, revisit doctor | 15:21 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, yeah I know, the doc was very clear :) | 15:22 |
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| mintux | I would like to records my call auto or manual . I installed recaller but doesn't work . I defined a path for record calls but there is no file there and after call finished . the icon is green and doesn't turn off . are there any solution for records my call ? | 16:09 |
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| maddler | hey all | 16:10 |
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| Crystal33fqc | hi! | 16:17 |
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| Crystal33fqc | anyone? | 16:20 |
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| mintux | is it safe to update my phone via sudo apt-get update and sudo apt-get upgrade? | 16:21 |
| ZogG | mintux why not? | 16:21 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer51 antibiotics and alcohol should help you to get drunk faster | 16:22 |
| mintux | ZogG: maybe some package has conflict or . some kernel and anything . testing and develop repository is enabled on my phone | 16:22 |
| mgedmin | mintux, it's not safe in general | 16:23 |
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| mgedmin | but it should be safe most of the time | 16:23 |
| mintux | mgedmin:how can I update . I thing recaller app has problem and doesn't work correctly on my phone | 16:23 |
| mgedmin | iow, check what you're upgrading | 16:23 |
| mgedmin | if apt tries to remove half of your system packages, stop | 16:23 |
| mgedmin | if it tries to upgrade 5 3rd-party apps, go ahead | 16:23 |
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| ZogG | mintux so what? it would say you and if not - than it would be updated by app maanger | 16:24 |
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| mintux | how can I update from app manager ? im in app manager and updated my list | 16:24 |
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| [DarkGUNMAN-Ext] | hi, anyone know the command line to connect a gprs/3g session | 16:25 |
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| mintux | only recaller recored calls ? | 16:27 |
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| timeless | http://konigsberg.mozilla.org/splash.jpg | 16:39 |
| timeless | that was low tide | 16:40 |
| * Khertan_ is fighting with QSyntaxHilighter ... | 16:40 | |
| * lcuk gives Khertan_ a QSword | 16:40 | |
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| lcuk | timeless, thats quite a cool splash screen | 16:41 |
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| alterego | Heh | 16:44 |
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| Khertan_ | from PyQt4.QWar import QNuclear, QGuidance | 16:46 |
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| jpe | can i group different contacts together and easily send an email to that group ? | 16:55 |
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| pexi | sounds like you are trying to use it for something useful.. I'm not sure if useful is supported | 16:57 |
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| * GAN900 kept himself up all night after listening to clips from the Backward Music Station. | 17:02 | |
| GAN900 | It's cool when MicroB confuses Find and the URL bar. | 17:03 |
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| [DarkGUNMAN-Ext] | afternoon - anyone know how to launch a gprs connection from the command line? aloso need to check that wifi or gprs are not active at the time as an If statement, trying to do a script which can be run as part of a scheduled task | 17:13 |
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| mgedmin | [DarkGUNMAN-Ext], http://myn900.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/internet-connection-via-the-command-line/ | 17:25 |
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| [DarkGUNMAN-Ext] | mgedmin > thanks | 17:29 |
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| Khertan_ | Yiha ! Dear onboard python coders and lovers ... A first release of KhtEditor is available on #maemo extras-devel : http://khertan.net/khteditor | 17:35 |
| GNU\caust1c | hi! one question i'm debating pretty often with a friend: does the n900 go into suspend (as in echo mem > /sys/power/state) when the display is off? | 17:36 |
| jacekowski | GNU\caust1c: no | 17:37 |
| jacekowski | GNU\caust1c: it goes into different low power mode | 17:37 |
| jacekowski | GNU\caust1c: but it's not suspend | 17:37 |
| GAN900 | It's about the same power usage, though. | 17:37 |
| GAN900 | Well, less, if you compared directly to x86. | 17:37 |
| GNU\caust1c | yeah, thats what i said him too | 17:37 |
| GNU\caust1c | +to | 17:37 |
| Juozapas | it will be official release of meego for n900 ? | 17:39 |
| jacekowski | no | 17:39 |
| tobis87 | update on the crypto stuff: | 17:39 |
| jacekowski | there will be no official supported meego for n900 | 17:39 |
| tobis87 | aes-cbc-plain:rmd256 -> no accel. 4,4MB/s with accel. 6,2MB/s without encryption 15,6MB/s | 17:39 |
| jacekowski | hmmm | 17:39 |
| jacekowski | that's slow | 17:39 |
| tobis87 | aes-cbc-essiv:rmd256 -> no accel. 4,4MB/s with accel. 6,6MB/s without encryption 15,6MB/s | 17:39 |
| SpeedEvil | tobis87: neat | 17:40 |
| tobis87 | but the omap-aes module is not yet very stable | 17:40 |
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| tobis87 | it oopses in essiv mode sometimes | 17:40 |
| jacekowski | well, it's not as fast as i was expecting it to be | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | tobis87: Durring the time you are doing the encryption, is the CPU locked? | 17:40 |
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| GAN900 | GNU\caust1c, ARM is really good at idle power consumption. | 17:41 |
| tobis87 | SpeedEvil: Don't know, I have to test more stuff. But it is defined as CRYPTO_ALG_ASYNC | 17:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | GNU\caust1c: Idle, with wifi enabled, you can get around a week. | 17:42 |
| RST38h | GAN: Could you remind me the bug# for the unable-to-copy-in-Modest bug? | 17:42 |
| GNU\caust1c | yeah, thats what i always told him. he insists however that his android phone actually goes into suspend | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | GNU\caust1c: It does | 17:43 |
| GNU\caust1c | (which i don't believe aswell) | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | GNU\caust1c: Android does things differently | 17:43 |
| GNU\caust1c | ah, okay | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | GNU\caust1c: They've not paid as much attention to getting things truly idle. | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | And hit it with the suspend hammer. | 17:43 |
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| jacekowski | maemo switches cpu to 0Hz | 17:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | The CPU stores state when 'soft-off' at really quite low power | 17:44 |
| GNU\caust1c | okay, thanks for clearing things up :) | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC 'suspend' mode can work. | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | But it's only something like half the power | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | so a couple of weeks idle, not a week | 17:44 |
| GNU\caust1c | i did suspend2ram on the maemo succesfully | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Yes. | 17:45 |
| kerio | suspending would be possible if rapuyama didn't bug the phone with each signal level change | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | It wakes on incoming signal changes. | 17:45 |
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| alessandra | help for evopedia | 17:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | Have you tried consulting the oracle at Delphi? | 17:47 |
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| alessandra | Who can help me for applying evopedia | 17:47 |
| alessandra | for nokia n900 | 17:47 |
| alessandra | ?????? | 17:48 |
| SpeedEvil | applying? | 17:48 |
| alessandra | :-( | 17:48 |
| Juozapas | maybe it will be official release of arduino for n900 ? | 17:48 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Oracle requires me to pay for a license for each person its prophesy will relate to | 17:48 |
| tobis87 | if anyone is interested in the omap-aes ops: http://pastebin.com/2CNtcyXg | 17:49 |
| alessandra | yes applying evopedia | 17:49 |
| GAN900 | dneary, so, you're not in favor of a MeeGo council? | 17:49 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: And they insist on forcing each participant wear a uniform, for the duration of the prophecy | 17:50 |
| dneary | GAN900, I don't believe an elected MeeGo council will fix the most serious community issues I see right now. | 17:50 |
| dneary | Is that the same thing? | 17:50 |
| alessandra | non riesco a vedere il file dei dump sul n900 | 17:50 |
| alessandra | I can not see the dump file on N900 | 17:51 |
| alessandra | nobody helps me | 17:51 |
| SpeedEvil | alessandra: you need rto download one | 17:52 |
| alessandra | rto ??? | 17:52 |
| Lynoure | alessandra: s/rto/to/ | 17:53 |
| Lynoure | I assume. | 17:53 |
| dneary | GAN900, And you? | 17:53 |
| alessandra | beach with me | 17:54 |
| GAN900 | dneary, dunno. | 17:54 |
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| GAN900 | dneary, dunno that I care anymore. *g* | 17:54 |
| Lynoure | alessandra: beach? | 17:54 |
| alessandra | I have downloaded from file dump at home but the phone does not see | 17:55 |
| RST38h | dneary: And what are most serious community issues at the moment? | 17:55 |
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| alessandra | HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP | 17:55 |
| Lynoure | alessandra: Calm down | 17:55 |
| dneary | RST38h: Private discussions on important issues | 17:55 |
| alessandra | ok Lynouvre | 17:55 |
| RST38h | dneary: You mean, you would like to make them public? | 17:56 |
| GAN900 | dneary, and, no, not the same thing, glad I asked to clarify. | 17:56 |
| RST38h | and that is the main issue? | 17:56 |
| alessandra | nobody tells me how sorry | 17:56 |
| Juozapas | strange thing, sometimes notification led not light until i try to unlock device, then it turn on blue light (recieved sms, im or smth) | 17:56 |
| Juozapas | any ideas whats wrong ? | 17:56 |
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| dneary | alessandra, Perhaps the mailing list might be appropriate? Patience is a requirement if you want to get help on IRC | 17:56 |
| dneary | RST38h: Yes. | 17:56 |
| alessandra | ok dneary | 17:57 |
| RST38h | dneary: I agree, council will not change that. There is no place for the council in the current Meego setup, afaik | 17:57 |
| dneary | RST38h: There are two separate things here: transparency and meritocracy | 17:57 |
| alessandra | sorry but I wanted to scream with you and who are desperate | 17:57 |
| dneary | RST38h: Discussions can be private, but transparent (like debates in parliament) | 17:57 |
| dneary | Or they can be public and open to all | 17:58 |
| RST38h | dneary: Making them public won't change much if the public cannot affect the outcome though | 17:58 |
| dneary | In the latter case, on difficult issues, coming to a consensus can be impossible | 17:58 |
| alessandra | So who do I ask for a hand thanks | 17:58 |
| RST38h | alessandra: talk.maemo.org | 17:58 |
| dneary | RST38h: What is needed is a public forum which gives greater weight to certain people's opinions (meritocracy), with a decider who can make a reasoned decision having listened to the debate | 17:59 |
| RST38h | dneary: But this will just open a can of worms though | 17:59 |
| dneary | RST38h: And I absolutely disagree - making them public will change lots | 17:59 |
| alessandra | RST38h talk.maemo.org not found | 17:59 |
| Lynoure | alessandra: Have you seen http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39871 ? | 17:59 |
| RST38h | dneary: Because the same person can have different value from the point of view of Nokia and Intel for example | 17:59 |
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| RST38h | dneary: Well, based on the Maemo experience, just making discussions public changes nothing | 18:00 |
| Lynoure | alessandra: sounds pretty much like your problem, so I hope it helps. I need to go now. | 18:00 |
| RST38h | dneary: as long as the actual decisions are still made without consulting the community | 18:00 |
| alessandra | I put a post already: I intall evopedia with dumps in Italian, But When I open the application to find the dump says he can not find anything as I do? But if I see Them on file management with extension IDX and DAT. help me thanks | 18:00 |
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| dneary | RST38h: I disagree. First step: make it transparent why decisions are made as they are. | 18:01 |
| dneary | Second: Open discussions | 18:01 |
| RST38h | dneary: ok. | 18:01 |
| RST38h | dneary: Third? | 18:01 |
| Lynoure | alessandra: Did you unsquash them? | 18:01 |
| Lynoure | alessandra: or, where did you get them from? | 18:02 |
| RST38h | dneary: Maybe a mechanism to allow the public actually affect how things are done? | 18:02 |
| dneary | RST38h: After the first step, people already know a lot - whether the project vision & direction matches their expectations, for example | 18:02 |
| jacekowski | and i would really like some sort of NDA or other stuff to get access to rapuyama datasheets | 18:02 |
| jacekowski | and that kind of stuff | 18:02 |
| alessandra | how do you use? | 18:02 |
| dneary | RST38h: That's "open discussions" | 18:02 |
| dneary | RST38h: You know who the decision maker is, and have the opportunity to lobby him | 18:02 |
| alessandra | how do you unsquash them? | 18:02 |
| RST38h | dneary: Well in Maemo we kinda had open discussions | 18:02 |
| dneary | RST38h: Open discussions, including the decision maker | 18:03 |
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| RST38h | dneary: The problem was, you could discuss stuff any way you liked and even persuade nokians of certain things, but they were never implemented | 18:03 |
| Lynoure | alessandra: http://evopedia.info/ has the dupms, then you need to unsquash them before the software will see them. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39871 has instructions | 18:03 |
| RST38h | dneary: Ok, this sounds clearer | 18:03 |
| Lynoure | alessandra: gotta go now, best of luck | 18:03 |
| dneary | RST38h: An open project implies that Nokians won't implement everything | 18:04 |
| RST38h | dneary: But they still will | 18:04 |
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| alessandra | thanks | 18:04 |
| dneary | It also implies that people other than Nokians will have the ability & access to modify things Nokians don't have time to | 18:04 |
| RST38h | dneary: Current meego.com is completely owned and administered by Nokia and INtel employees, right? | 18:04 |
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| dneary | Sure | 18:04 |
| dneary | That's my "problem that needs solving" | 18:04 |
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| lcuk | hey dneary \o | 18:04 |
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| lcuk | dneary, it would be good to have your eyes in the #maemo-ssu discussions if you could idle there perhaps | 18:05 |
| alessandra | Login : Register unsquashfs | 18:05 |
| RST38h | dneary: Sounds like it cannot be solved without a lot of persuasion inside Nokia and Intel teems | 18:05 |
| RST38h | teams, sorry | 18:05 |
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| dneary | RST38h: So, to refer the honorable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago... | 18:06 |
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| dneary | "I don't believe an elected MeeGo council will fix the most serious community issues I see right now." | 18:06 |
| RST38h | 100% agree | 18:07 |
| GAN900 | I think we need a culture shif | 18:07 |
| GAN900 | t | 18:07 |
| crashanddie | we need an ownership shift | 18:08 |
| crashanddie | MeeGo needs to stop being "Nokia & Intel", but "contributors include Nokia & Intel" | 18:08 |
| GAN900 | Which isn't easy no matter how you go about it. | 18:08 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, that's the party line | 18:08 |
| GAN900 | Whether that does or will ever related much to reality, well. . . . | 18:08 |
| RST38h | GAN: Depends on where you wanrt to shift :) | 18:11 |
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| RST38h | GAN: I would say, we need an online community truly independent from hw/sw manufacturers | 18:12 |
| RST38h | GAN: Like HTC people have for example | 18:12 |
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| RST38h | So that there is no implicit rule to rely on Nokia to resolve issues | 18:12 |
| RST38h | Own site, own forum, own repository, own build system if needed | 18:13 |
| RST38h | With 6-10 people having equal administrative rights | 18:13 |
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| Khertan_ | i like this idea | 18:14 |
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| RST38h | And one simple rule: NO POLITICS | 18:14 |
| RST38h | Just technical stuff. | 18:14 |
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| nomis | RST38h: that is an illusion. | 18:17 |
| RST38h | maybe | 18:17 |
| RST38h | but at least you can steer toward it, even although your goal is illusory | 18:17 |
| dneary | hi nomis | 18:18 |
| nomis | I mean the "no politics" part. | 18:18 |
| dneary | How're things in GIMPland? | 18:18 |
| nomis | dneary: Hi dave. This discussion kind of sounds familiar :) | 18:18 |
| RST38h | yes I understood | 18:18 |
| nomis | dneary: we seem to have resolved the admin issue. | 18:19 |
| dneary | RST38h: It's completely reasonable to me that there be a body that decides what goes into the distro minimum spec - whether it's packages or APIs | 18:19 |
| dneary | RST38h: All I want is to have some kind of consultation/proposal period, with debate & a public (justified) decision at the end | 18:19 |
| RST38h | dneary: Yes, but look at it from the manager's viewpoint | 18:20 |
| RST38h | dneary: You argue internally with interest holders for weeks | 18:20 |
| RST38h | dneary: Make all kinds of sacrifices that may jeopardize your career later | 18:20 |
| RST38h | dneary: ANd finally reach a conclusion | 18:21 |
| dneary | RST38h: Yes, I know | 18:21 |
| dneary | I'd like to see those debates happen on meego-dev | 18:21 |
| RST38h | dneary: And NOW, you are supposed to let some punters off the street discuss it AGAIN and change the fragile balance you have achieved? | 18:21 |
| RST38h | dneary: No fucking way. | 18:21 |
| dneary | No repeat discussions - that is the way of the 2 speed project | 18:21 |
| dneary | "community comes after" is (as you point out) too hard | 18:22 |
| RST38h | dneary: A lot of these discussions cannot be made in open space | 18:22 |
| dneary | If that's imposed, what happens is that community doesn't mean anything | 18:22 |
| RST38h | dneary: Because even although you are discussing an open source project, the real basis for your decisions is a subject of NDAs | 18:22 |
| dneary | RST38h: Sure. And, as I was pointing out, that's the core problem | 18:22 |
| crashanddie | the whole point is that Nokia/Intel shouldn't have these discussions internally | 18:23 |
| crashanddie | either they have the discussions in public, or they don't have discussions about things that influence the whole project | 18:23 |
| lcuk | why shouldn't they? for their spin, they can decide inclusion/exclusion all they like | 18:23 |
| RST38h | dneary: This particular problem cannot be rectified, really. It comes from the fact that Meego is not just an OSS project, there are commercial interests involved | 18:23 |
| lcuk | just like we can technically do so | 18:23 |
| dneary | RST38h: It can be mitigated | 18:23 |
| lcuk | the community open mix of meego should have the community open discussion | 18:23 |
| RST38h | dneary: It can probably be rectified by having corporate and community editions (a la RedHat/Fedora) | 18:23 |
| dneary | RST38h: Have an open module discussion period before feature freeze | 18:24 |
| RST38h | dneary: Or maybe the vice versa: | 18:24 |
| dneary | RST38h: Like Ubuntu does | 18:24 |
| lcuk | dneary, the maemo community meego stuff can have whatever it needs and have images built, yes? | 18:24 |
| RST38h | dneary: Each corporate interest holder comes and says: "We NEED these modules there." | 18:24 |
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| dneary | RST38h: Have all kernel design decisions (such as no NFS) go through community lists before they're decided | 18:24 |
| RST38h | dneary: And the rest is a subject of public debate | 18:24 |
| RST38h | dneary: Linux kernel is different though | 18:25 |
| * RST38h agrees with no-nfs thing btw ;) | 18:25 | |
| dneary | RST38h: Well, it's the area where the most work & discussion is happening on meego-dev right now (perhaps because it's one of the few places where the position isn't "let's take upstream" | 18:25 |
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| dneary | I don't care, myself | 18:25 |
| lcuk | sigh | 18:26 |
| lcuk | we want the meego community spin to be the defacto one that nokia intel and any other commercial remixers want to use apps from | 18:26 |
| RST38h | NFS is a freaking monster anyway | 18:26 |
| dneary | But I want to see someone say "NFS support is outdated and inappropriate for MeeGo devices, so I'm planning to unconditionally remove the NFS stuff from the kernel we ship. Discuss." | 18:26 |
| lcuk | so for now, we should not be trying to push nokia/intel to actually do what we want | 18:27 |
| lcuk | we should be building the meego we want | 18:27 |
| lcuk | and let them see how much better we can do stuff | 18:27 |
| RST38h | dneary: Sounds sensible: this particular topic should not involve any corpse interest, I think | 18:27 |
| lcuk | RST38h is right saying that no manager will listen, we prove by example | 18:28 |
| dneary | corpse interest? | 18:28 |
| RST38h | dneary: The UI kits inclusion is going to be a much hotter topic though | 18:28 |
| lcuk | and let them make their own minds up | 18:28 |
| dneary | RST38h: If you want to put it into a soundbite then here it is: "Default setting is mailing list for anything relating to the distro." | 18:28 |
| RST38h | dneary:CORPorateS | 18:28 |
| RST38h | dneary: They won't bite :) | 18:29 |
| dneary | lcuk, prove by example implies that manager gets to see your work | 18:29 |
| dneary | lcuk, By no means a given if you're not an employee | 18:29 |
| lcuk | dneary, meego will have a community spin, maemo is already gearing up an obs isnt it? | 18:29 |
| lcuk | its upto us to decide what goes in it | 18:29 |
| lcuk | so we will it with the best and the brightest community apps | 18:30 |
| lcuk | and best experience | 18:30 |
| lcuk | and let a groundswell of people talk about it and show that it works | 18:30 |
| lcuk | THEN managers will listen | 18:30 |
| lcuk | but going whining to them, as RST38h says isn't useful | 18:30 |
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| dneary | Who's whining? | 18:31 |
| dneary | "opportunity to convince' | 18:31 |
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| dneary | lcuk, Let me put it this way: can you tell me how it was decided that Banshee would be the media player for MeeGo netbook? | 18:32 |
| lcuk | I dunno, but why isn't there someone with a better media player showing it? | 18:32 |
| crashanddie | show it to whom, exactly? | 18:33 |
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| dneary | crashanddie, My point 'zacly | 18:33 |
| crashanddie | if *anyone* comes to the mailing lists or forums showing a media player, and asking "Could this be the default media player", the response will ZOMG immediately be: "This has already been discussed, please don't waste our time" | 18:33 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, how do you hear about anything? | 18:33 |
| dneary | crashanddie, Yes. Or, potentially, "No. You must ship the entire platform to be compliant." | 18:34 |
| lcuk | "gahhh this meego media player is shit!!!" | 18:34 |
| lcuk | "oh, I have blahblah and it works a treat, from the maemo community repo" | 18:34 |
| crashanddie | the only part where things get discussed in MeeGo is when Intel or Nokia employees get a memo "Please read and comment on emailing thread x on meego-dev" | 18:34 |
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| crashanddie | I wouldn't actually be surprised if some corporate contributors set up rules to redirect anything not from whitelisted email domains to /dev/null | 18:35 |
| * lcuk carries on with his community meego keynote | 18:35 | |
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| * crashanddie waits to get his blackberry, then will send his n900 back to quim and be done with this shit | 18:36 | |
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| crashanddie | s/shit/deaf man's discussion/ | 18:36 |
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| lcuk | dneary, whats the best mobile linux email client? | 18:38 |
| rtyler | so I received my n900 yesterday, maemo has come a LONG way since I last tinkered with it on a friends n800 | 18:38 |
| rtyler | well done guys! | 18:38 |
| plan_rich | hey, i own a nokia n900 and wanted to develop a simple application! i thought that maemo uses qt (cause its from nokia) but the the hello world example is written in gtk+... why is that? | 18:38 |
| dneary | lcuk, Hmmm... I never met one I liked. Gmail on Android, maybe | 18:38 |
| * rtyler sends everybody a meat plate | 18:38 | |
| kerio | plan_rich: maemo uses both | 18:39 |
| dneary | lcuk, On N900, Modest | 18:39 |
| kerio | you should use qt | 18:39 |
| rtyler | plan_rich: IIRC MeeGo is more Qt based than Maemo is | 18:39 |
| kerio | so it'll be easier to port your application to meego | 18:39 |
| lcuk | dneary, is it better than the meego mail client? | 18:39 |
| dneary | lcuk, Anjal was looking promising, but I'm not a big fan of Outlook Express | 18:39 |
| lcuk | on handset | 18:39 |
| kerio | anjal? who the hell picks maemo application names | 18:39 |
| rtyler | kerio: some gimp :P | 18:39 |
| plan_rich | kk so if i devel my app x in meamo i can easily port it to meego and vice versa? | 18:39 |
| hrw | with Qt? | 18:40 |
| plan_rich | (if i use qt) | 18:40 |
| kerio | kinda | 18:40 |
| kerio | it'll also be easy to port it to a desktop | 18:40 |
| hrw | plan_rich: it was expected to simply 'yes' | 18:40 |
| hrw | plan_rich: do not hardcode UI in application - use *.ui files from Qt Designer | 18:40 |
| plan_rich | kk | 18:41 |
| lcuk | dneary, my point being, having pride in the apps in the meego-maemo community distro will show managers a pathway which gives them some good software. they may not choose everything, but are more likely to as we get strong solid reliable open apps. | 18:41 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, except nobody in the community has commit rights and there isn't an open build system. | 18:41 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, pie in the sky thinking. | 18:41 |
| RST38h | btw, no linked in messaging plugin yet? | 18:42 |
| RST38h | lcuk: no :) | 18:42 |
| GAN900 | Nokia is going to ship exactly the number of proprietary pieces of junk as they feel they need to to differentiate. | 18:42 |
| * RST38h smiles at lcuk bitterly | 18:42 | |
| * GAN900 bets they use the reference stuff as an excuse to add MORE proprietary applications. | 18:43 | |
| dneary | lcuk, Sure | 18:43 |
| GAN900 | For your unsettlement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgF9ZlI_R-8 | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: on the other hand, there hasn't been many 'commit bit' gaining patches either. | 18:46 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, perhaps an indicator of additional issues. | 18:47 |
| lcuk | to be fair about any application | 18:47 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: my next sentence | 18:47 |
| lcuk | developers working on the app in question are in best position to do patches themselves where the app is actively maintained | 18:47 |
| GAN900 | MeeGo isn't exactly not anti-contributor. | 18:48 |
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| Stskeeps | but my point is, n900 implementation is really open and we're not getting patches. | 18:48 |
| Stskeeps | (well, that's not entirely true, some contributors are starting to show) | 18:49 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, theres still a lot of community sentiment in the hildon problem. I think in coming weeks as outreach between meego and the community to try and get hildon compatability in place we will see much more crossover | 18:49 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: lol, the backwards music station made safari crash | 18:49 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, one bright spot in the darkness isn't going to overcome everything else. | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: even the handset guys are out in the open and they're sitting quite lonely. | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | their requirements, etc. | 18:50 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: sigh, you're provoking me to try and build maemo gtk.. | 18:51 |
| lcuk | me? never! | 18:51 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: that's a communication going between the UK and the US? | 18:52 |
| lcuk | but if we did get hildon running and start to be able to bring community apps in, I bet there will be more movement and investigation on the new qt apps as well | 18:52 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: I'd bet on it being the Queen sexing the then-president on the red phone. Or maybe some PM... | 18:52 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, I really want to look at the open picture viewer meego has :) | 18:53 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, don't know. | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: it's on gitorious | 18:53 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, well, perhaps they should advertise more. | 18:53 |
| GAN900 | Blogging is good. | 18:53 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, sure | 18:53 |
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| lcuk | I am hopeful that like the qt fapman has done for HAM | 18:53 |
| lcuk | the meego picture viewer could be a faster grid | 18:53 |
| GAN900 | Notice that we don't ever have any articles on mwkn about it. | 18:53 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, it would be easier with debian package around them of course | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: packaging doesn't matter when it takes 5 minutes to package something like an app for meego.. | 18:55 |
| lcuk | but thats not something for meego to worry about, I think theres some folks looking from community already | 18:55 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, but having to reboot and lose funcitonality to playtest isnt great | 18:55 |
| lcuk | thats the community issue with playing with meego | 18:55 |
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| lcuk | unlike all other maemo dev, they cannot check on phone | 18:55 |
| * lcuk would like to see the picture viewer grids side by side | 18:56 | |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: i can't help but feel that letting maemo gtk live another day is a sin against nature, though | 18:56 |
| lcuk | to see perforance diffs | 18:56 |
| lcuk | lol Stskeeps | 18:56 |
| lcuk | do you have meego MMS? | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | PMS, maybe | 18:56 |
| lcuk | heh | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | i'll try to port maemopad, the mother of all maemo applications. | 18:57 |
| lcuk | you may think gtk is a sin, but theres a lot of great apps built in it and hildon has worked extremely well | 18:57 |
| lcuk | :) great idea! | 18:58 |
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| * lcuk remembers you doing that in mer! | 18:58 | |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: what do you consider port-worthy maemo apps? | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:01 |
| lcuk | modest for one | 19:01 |
| lcuk | fmms :) | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | *choke* | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | another sin against nature, modest | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:02 |
| lcuk | lol thats a longer term thing :P | 19:02 |
| lcuk | maemopad will make lots happy I bet though! | 19:02 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, around here modest is used by many | 19:02 |
| lcuk | and copes with most things needed | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | intltool, libhildon1-dev, libgtk2.0-dev, libosso-gnomevfs2-dev, libglib2.0-dev, libdbus-glib-1-dev, libosso-dev, libmodest-dbus-client-dev, conbtdialogs-dev, libhildonfm2-dev, osso-af-settings | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | and behind those, a lot of worse dependancies are hiding | 19:02 |
| lcuk | yeah I know | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | and daemons that has to listen and .. | 19:03 |
| lcuk | I started looking at a load of 2nd level dependencies for things earlier this week | 19:03 |
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| lcuk | I am having similar things from the other way | 19:03 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, so, when is the blog article coming up so I can write a summary in mwkn? :) | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: what blog article? :P | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | "Why Hildon is a bad thing to let live"? | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:04 |
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| GAN900 | Stskeeps, about the N900 project, what's going, who's involved, how to get involved, etc. | 19:07 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, you say you have no contributors, I say you need more marketing. | 19:07 |
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| Stskeeps | GAN900: hm? it has been up as a wiki page forever, http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 and advertised like we were drunk, naked and flashing at a music festival | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | +it | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: another question - why not just run these things in a maemo5 chroot? | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:09 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, funny, I haven't seen much of the advertising. | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: you haven't been reading enough threads then | 19:10 |
| GAN900 | But I've now offered to help, so whatever. | 19:10 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, I don't bother with anything on the MeeGo forums. | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | it hasn't been on the meego forums. | 19:11 |
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| Stskeeps | GAN900: #meego-arm does testify people have been listening though | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | (106 people there currently) | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | more than mer ever attracted | 19:12 |
| lcuk | mer had lots more when the joggler folks arrived | 19:13 |
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| Stskeeps | GAN900: if you want to see real development, follow that instead of #meego | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone seen sivang or have contact info? | 19:15 |
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| GAN900 | Stskeeps, clearly there's an awareness issue if you're not getting patches. | 19:16 |
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| GAN900 | Apparently there's not, though, so carry on. | 19:17 |
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| slonopotamus | ~curse all n900 usb connectors | 19:19 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, all n900 usb connectors ! | 19:19 |
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| kerio | did someone port sylpheed to maemo? | 19:49 |
| gs94 | how can I get telnetd on my N900 ? it's reporting a missing dependency | 19:49 |
| kerio | it was a kickass mail client | 19:49 |
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| kerio | i want fetchmail+spamassassin+sylpheed as a mail client | 19:50 |
| gs94 | telnetd: Depends: openbsd-inetd but it is not installable or | 19:50 |
| gs94 | inet-superserver but it is not installable | 19:50 |
| kerio | gs94: ew | 19:50 |
| kerio | >.< | 19:50 |
| gs94 | kerio: ? | 19:51 |
| kerio | use ssh | 19:51 |
| kerio | srsly | 19:51 |
| gs94 | ssh is slow | 19:51 |
| gs94 | plus I don't need the encryption, it's in my LAN | 19:51 |
| gs94 | I just need easy terminal access to my phone from my PC | 19:51 |
| kerio | sylpheed: For example, you can read messages in a folder which has 20-30 thousands without stress. | 19:52 |
| kerio | do that with modest | 19:52 |
| lcuk | gs94, until you get in wide world, but try apt-get install openbsd-inetd and see what that has a problem with. | 19:52 |
| lcuk | you may have to do some faffing to get it working | 19:52 |
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| lcuk | but the usecase isn't entirely unreasonable, I would like to know what transfer differences you get between the unencrypted telnet and encrypted ssh | 19:52 |
| gs94 | well I'm not sure it's about encryption | 19:53 |
| gs94 | I think it's about the echoing | 19:53 |
| lcuk | in part it will be | 19:53 |
| lcuk | because the little cpu has to do the work | 19:53 |
| lcuk | for everything sent over | 19:53 |
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| lcuk | so 1gb of data has 1gb of encryption done on it? | 19:53 |
| gs94 | the terminal is not responsive. I get the echo of my letters in a second or two, it's not fun | 19:53 |
| gs94 | I'm not sending 1gb of terminal commands lol | 19:53 |
| lcuk | that might be something totally different | 19:54 |
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| gs94 | is it fixable ? | 19:54 |
| lcuk | i've heard of others with similar lag | 19:54 |
| gs94 | and if telnetd is not installable, why's it there in the repos ? | 19:54 |
| lcuk | you sure the machine isnt working hard? | 19:54 |
| lcuk | ie top shows idleness | 19:54 |
| slonopotamus | gs94: that's how maemo works | 19:54 |
| gs94 | haha | 19:54 |
| gs94 | other than the catorize problem, no | 19:55 |
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| slonopotamus | not to mention bug 9902 | 19:55 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9902 Autocleaner purged _all_ versions of sflphone-client-gnome from extras-devel | 19:55 |
| lcuk | gs94, its there because it should work, but with everything debian repositoryish, you can have extra repositories which conflict and block and offer different versions | 19:55 |
| lcuk | you can get into same situation in debian | 19:55 |
| lcuk | where apps are offered but not installable | 19:56 |
| gs94 | might be rare, but possible | 19:56 |
| lcuk | *nod* | 19:56 |
| slonopotamus | lcuk: not if you stick to official repos | 19:56 |
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| gs94 | maemo repos aren't official ? :D | 19:56 |
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| lcuk | slonopotamus, touche | 19:56 |
| slonopotamus | lcuk: :P | 19:56 |
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| derf | gs94: Go into Settings, Internet Connections, etc., find the entry for your router, and disable power saving. | 19:57 |
| johnsq | Hi | 19:57 |
| lcuk | yes, thats a good idea derf | 19:57 |
| slonopotamus | gs94: do you have high load on your wifi router? | 19:57 |
| gs94 | no slonopotamus | 19:58 |
| slonopotamus | gs94: how strong is wifi signal on n900? | 19:58 |
| gs94 | perfect | 19:58 |
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| gs94 | the router is 3 meters away | 19:58 |
| slonopotamus | gs94: does ping show packet loss? | 19:58 |
| gs94 | i'll try now, sec | 19:58 |
| gs94 | derf: thank you, that should fix the eternal lag that happens after idle activity | 19:59 |
| slonopotamus | gs94: best check is sudo ping -f <other side>, ctrl+c after some seconds and see what it reports | 19:59 |
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| slonopotamus | gs94: 5 < some < 10 is okay | 19:59 |
| gs94 | why should there be any packet loss ? | 20:00 |
| slonopotamus | no idea. bad cables :) | 20:00 |
| gs94 | wifi :P | 20:00 |
| gs94 | -f -> invalid option | 20:00 |
| kerio | powersaving is *good* | 20:00 |
| slonopotamus | bad ping :) | 20:00 |
| slonopotamus | kerio: until it doesn't start to break usability | 20:01 |
| gs94 | 0% loss after removing -f | 20:01 |
| gs94 | kerio: the router is only at my home, and there's also a charger at my home | 20:01 |
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| derf | The N900's power saving requires a feature that is either broken or missing in basically every router I've ever used it with, and the failure case is multi-second RTT's. | 20:02 |
| derf | So, no, it's not good. | 20:02 |
| gs94 | what happens to maemo after nokia gave up hildon ? | 20:03 |
| slonopotamus | gs94: do you observe lags in both directions? | 20:03 |
| gs94 | slonopotamus: will try now | 20:03 |
| slonopotamus | gs94: if only pc -> n900, it is surely powersaving | 20:03 |
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| slonopotamus | sometimes my n900 powersaves so much that it isn't pingable from wifi side | 20:04 |
| gs94 | uh I don't have sshd on my windows. Expected :D | 20:04 |
| slonopotamus | meh | 20:04 |
| gs94 | is sshd supposed to be instant ? or is this a known limitation ? | 20:05 |
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| slonopotamus | besides initial connection negotiation it should be just as laggy as your network is. | 20:06 |
| gs94 | powersaving just fixed everything. | 20:06 |
| gs94 | the after-idle lag, and the echo lag | 20:06 |
| gs94 | thanks derf. | 20:06 |
| gs94 | so there's powersaving throughout the connection ? :S not just during idle time ? | 20:07 |
| slonopotamus | gs94: prepare for faster battery drain | 20:07 |
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| slonopotamus | gs94: define idle :) | 20:07 |
| slonopotamus | gs94: for network, idle is when no packets are sent | 20:07 |
| gs94 | screen turned off, didn't use any connection for more than 10 minutes or sth | 20:07 |
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| slonopotamus | gs94: you don't send packets all the time. standard tcp keepalive is measured in _seconds_ | 20:08 |
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| derf | Default TCP keepalive is "no less than 2 hours" :). | 20:10 |
| gs94 | that's just too long | 20:10 |
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| gs94 | did nokia give up development or was that just a rumor ? | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | development on what? :P | 20:12 |
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| gs94 | hildon mainly | 20:12 |
| GAN900 | derf, not here. :P | 20:12 |
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| GAN900 | WRT54Gs and WHR-125 work fine. | 20:13 |
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| FIQ | note to self: not editing sudoers if not using "visudo" | 20:14 |
| FIQ | now i need to reflash. :P | 20:15 |
| FIQ | yeah, i know i'm great | 20:15 |
| X-Fade | FIQ: Install sshd? | 20:15 |
| X-Fade | FIQ: And login as root? | 20:15 |
| FIQ | uhm | 20:15 |
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| FIQ | would that work? | 20:16 |
| X-Fade | HAM has root. | 20:16 |
| FIQ | ok | 20:16 |
| FIQ | great | 20:16 |
| FIQ | thanks, you stopped me from reflashing. :D | 20:16 |
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| FIQ_ | uH | 20:19 |
| luke-jr | gs94: I recall seeing something along those lines in a commit msg somewhere | 20:19 |
| FIQ_ | you sure about that? | 20:19 |
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| FIQ_ | because my repos disappeared | 20:20 |
| FIQ_ | apt-worker exited, due to syntax error in /etc/sudoers | 20:21 |
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| FIQ | Guess a NSU resets the rootfs, or do i need to use the command line flasher? :p | 20:36 |
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| gs94 | luke-jr: the last commit message of hildon-desktop | 20:40 |
| gs94 | luke-jr: it said from now on, the community has to take care of it | 20:40 |
| MohammadAG | it's stable | 20:41 |
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| gs94 | it isn't. catorise triggers a bug in it. | 20:41 |
| gs94 | it generates constant 10% cpu usage. And hildon-desktop keeps calling Poll() with 0 as timeout, it returns, it calls it again, etc. | 20:43 |
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| gs94 | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10412 | 20:44 |
| povbot | Bug 10412: hildon-desktop cpu usage, result=causes slow battery drain | 20:44 |
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| MohammadAG | gs94, so it was fixed | 20:47 |
| gs94 | oh | 20:47 |
| gs94 | sorry for that. | 20:48 |
| MohammadAG | If the launcher wasn't scrollable because of the few icons the rubberband effect never finished because because by the time the velocity dropped low enough the other boundary accelerated it again in the opposite direction, making the page effectively bouncing invisibly. | 20:48 |
| MohammadAG | package coming up | 20:48 |
| gs94 | thanks | 20:49 |
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| mece | 'ello | 20:51 |
| Venemo | hey guys | 20:51 |
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| Venemo | do your N900s have the "Designed in Finland" caption? | 20:52 |
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| gs94 | Venemo: yes | 20:52 |
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| Venemo | gs94: what if mine doesn't have it? | 20:53 |
| Venemo | does it hold any relevance? | 20:53 |
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| kerio | mine does | 20:54 |
| kerio | Venemo: LOLFAKE | 20:55 |
| Venemo | kerio: LoL | 20:55 |
| Venemo | kerio: the Nokia site accepts my IMEI as an N900 | 20:56 |
| Venemo | kerio: so definitely not fakee | 20:56 |
| RST38h | EHLO PUNKS | 20:56 |
| thresh | Venemo: are you sure your DNS setup is not spoiled too? That so called 'nokia site' could be fake as well. | 20:58 |
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| Venemo | thresh: haha! | 21:01 |
| Venemo | RST38h: hello punk :) | 21:01 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, depends on when it was manufactured. | 21:02 |
| GAN900 | That string appears primarily on the first batches and the protos. | 21:02 |
| Venemo | GAN900: the original owner bought it in december (I bought it as used in february) | 21:02 |
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| FIQ | windows cmd ftl, starting flasher-3.5.exe, opens a new cmd with text, then closes megafast | 21:07 |
| FIQ | hmm | 21:07 |
| Jaffa | FIQ: It takes command line arguments and so needs to be run from within a Command Prompt | 21:08 |
| FIQ | yes | 21:08 |
| FIQ | i know | 21:08 |
| FIQ | flasher-3.5.exe -F <file> | 21:08 |
| FIQ | i did it | 21:08 |
| FIQ | but it opens a new cmd prompt that closes before i can read what it said | 21:08 |
| FIQ | Hmm | 21:08 |
| FIQ | idea: redirect stdout to file | 21:09 |
| jacekowski | no | 21:09 |
| jacekowski | run cmd | 21:09 |
| Jaffa | FIQ: Or 1) open Command Prompt; 2) run flasher-3.5.exe from within it | 21:09 |
| jacekowski | and then run that command in cmd | 21:09 |
| FIQ | jaffa, ok, look | 21:09 |
| FIQ | start -> run -> cmd | 21:09 |
| FIQ | cd'ing to flasher-3.5 | 21:09 |
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| FIQ | running flasher-3.5.exe | 21:09 |
| FIQ | that's what i did | 21:09 |
| FIQ | do i fail? | 21:09 |
| jacekowski | yes | 21:09 |
| FIQ | ok | 21:10 |
| Jaffa | Hmm. Doesn't do that for me. | 21:10 |
| jacekowski | something is seriously fucked up on your computer | 21:10 |
| FIQ | jacekowski, okay. :P | 21:10 |
| FIQ | but that isn't helping me | 21:10 |
| FIQ | Hm, guess I'll try to do it from a live version of kubuntu | 21:10 |
| FIQ | but everytime i try to do a liveUSB, i fail, so i will do it from wubi instead.. | 21:11 |
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| plan_rich_ | hi! i want to create a qt app that should run on maemo, meego and also on pc! do i have the gui part for every device? | 21:14 |
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| plan_rich_ | do i have to write* | 21:14 |
| Venemo | plan_rich_: if you want to. | 21:15 |
| Venemo | plan_rich_: if you restort to using only platform-independent component, you don't haveto | 21:15 |
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| plan_rich_ | i would like to create just one gui impl. and only make little modifications on every device... | 21:16 |
| FIQ | hmm | 21:16 |
| plan_rich_ | or on the os platform. question is: does it look good on every platform? | 21:16 |
| FIQ | ok, now i've solved my problems @windows | 21:16 |
| FIQ | opera somehow didn't download the .bin-file, and flasher-3.5 needs to be run as admin | 21:17 |
| Venemo | plan_rich_: that is possible with #ifs | 21:18 |
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| plan_rich_ | kk but maemo does use different QT or Maemo classes for its gui than the qt for linux does? | 21:19 |
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| BCMM | plan_rich_: qt GUI stuff will work on all platforms, no rewriting | 21:24 |
| BCMM | plan_rich_: and on macos and windows, it will match "native" apps fine | 21:24 |
| BCMM | plan_rich_: of course, you'll probably want to use a slightly different GUI on maemo because of the small screen | 21:24 |
| plan_rich_ | y how do i achieave that? macros? | 21:25 |
| Venemo | plan_rich_: there are maemo specific classes, yes. | 21:25 |
| lcuk | evening Venemo \o | 21:26 |
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| Venemo | plan_rich_: but you can use the "normal" Qt widgets, too | 21:26 |
| Venemo | lcuk: good evening :) | 21:27 |
| plan_rich_ | kk | 21:27 |
| BCMM | anyway, imho it looks good on windows and linux/maemo, if you don't have an ugly theme | 21:27 |
| BCMM | i don't really have an opinion about osx, judge for yourself: http://mac.kde.org/images/kmail.jpg | 21:27 |
| Venemo | plan_rich_: | 21:28 |
| Venemo | plan_rich_: with #ifs you can have platform specific code | 21:28 |
| FIQ | ok, fine, now i know why opera never downloaded the file | 21:28 |
| FIQ | it didn't have access to the dir (due to limited access to Program Files directory) | 21:29 |
| * FIQ downloads to his user dir | 21:29 | |
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| plan_rich_ | kk thx | 21:31 |
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| Khertan | mece, Hi, i ve released a first preview of KhtEditor 0.0.3, available in maemo extras-devel | 21:32 |
| mece | yay! | 21:32 |
| mece | *installing* | 21:32 |
| BCMM | i'm curious now, nokia lists maemo and linux/x11 as different platforms on their website, but surely they share practically all the the platform-specific code? | 21:32 |
| Khertan | :) | 21:32 |
| BCMM | i mean, on their qt website | 21:32 |
| Khertan | i ve added some syntax hilight using pygments | 21:33 |
| Venemo | BCMM: Qt for Maemo is based on Qt for X11 | 21:33 |
| Khertan | but it s ll be better if i use a native QSyntaxHilighter | 21:33 |
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| Shapeshifter | btw, did I ever mention that developing for the iphone is a complete joke every step of the way? | 21:37 |
| Shapeshifter | Fate has it that I'm writing one in this project, and it's incredibly rediculous. | 21:37 |
| Shapeshifter | just needed to share that. | 21:37 |
| Shapeshifter | ._. | 21:37 |
| BCMM | how come? | 21:38 |
| Khertan | Shapeshifter, iOs is a joke | 21:38 |
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| tobis87 | I did some more testing (on crypto), the essiv code only fails if I use aes with a blocksize of 256, 128 works fine, but there aren't many hash functions which only support 128: md5 and rmd128. md5 is broken, so only choice is rmd128. | 21:40 |
| tobis87 | aes-cbc-essiv:rmd128 -> no accel. 5,8MB/s with accel. 7,9MB/s without encryption 15,6MB/s (cryptsetup -c aes-cbc-essiv:rmd128 -s 128 -d /dev/urandom create swap /dev/mmcblk0p3) | 21:41 |
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| Shapeshifter | A) get a fairly recent mac, B) register as a developer, C) download and install 2.5GB SDK, D) code in a silly C wrapper language, no other options, E) read a badly written, badly organized API, F) adhere to rediculous guidelines, G) constantly fight off Apple fanboys who get angry at you for critizising anything apple, H) get a developer subscription, paying a stunning 99USD, else you can't even test it on an actualy device, even if ... | 21:43 |
| Shapeshifter | ... you own it. (means that you CANNOT write software for your own personal use), I) have a credit card ready, else you can't subscribe, J) admire the ID check failing, Apple telling you to *fax* them a *notarized* copy of your ID, K) call the dev support, they activate it for you without hesitation, L) discover that to update your SDK from 4.0.1 to 4.0.2, you have to download the whole xcode+sdk 2.5GB AGAIN, <future> M) Probably ... | 21:43 |
| Shapeshifter | ... have your app rejected because some silly reason | 21:43 |
| Shapeshifter | </wall of text> | 21:43 |
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| RST38h | Shapeshifter: Not sure if I am supposed to remind you, but ridIculous spells with I. | 21:44 |
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| Shapeshifter | RST38h: mhh, I didn't know that. I always spell it wrong. I shall try to remember. | 21:45 |
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| Khertan | hum someone know if there is a bug on qmessagebox on maemo ? | 21:46 |
| Khertan | i always got QMessageBox.Yes when i click outside of the dialog | 21:46 |
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| slonopotamus | woah, dock station for n810! http://bu3sch.de/joomla/images/media/n810_docking_a.jpg | 21:54 |
| lcuk | lol slonopotamus thats not a dock, it looks like a jig! | 21:56 |
| lcuk | this is closer to a dock ;) http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1603/810cratelaptopmodetc6.jpg | 21:56 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 21:57 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: does that fancy apple keyboard work with your n900? | 21:57 |
| BCMM | does the n810 have tv-out like the n900? | 21:57 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, IDK | 21:57 |
| lcuk | thats the one that the battery compartment is sealed on | 21:58 |
| lcuk | i cant get in it to tell | 21:58 |
| RST38h | hmmm | 21:58 |
| RST38h | weird, mine does accept AAs | 21:58 |
| lcuk | it does | 21:58 |
| RST38h | but it does not work with n900 | 21:58 |
| lcuk | the compartment tube screw | 21:58 |
| lcuk | is blocked | 21:58 |
| RST38h | ah | 21:58 |
| lcuk | it normally and used to open | 21:58 |
| lcuk | but I think the old batteries were left in and leaker | 21:58 |
| alterego | BCMM: no | 21:58 |
| BCMM | ah | 21:59 |
| RST38h | lcuk: you are in for some chemical cleanup work =) | 21:59 |
| lcuk | RST38h, yes | 21:59 |
| lcuk | when I can open it | 21:59 |
| lcuk | I sprayed it the other day with wd40 and left it | 21:59 |
| lcuk | I will go and look | 21:59 |
| lcuk | either way, its a bit screwed now | 21:59 |
| lcuk | but could still work | 21:59 |
| RST38h | lcuk: A coin does the job | 22:00 |
| lcuk | i bent a coin trying | 22:00 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Something large, equivalent to US quarter | 22:00 |
| lcuk | i had coin in the slot | 22:00 |
| FIQ | hmm | 22:00 |
| lcuk | and held with grips | 22:00 |
| RST38h | Coins are no longer what they have been :) | 22:00 |
| lcuk | and twisted | 22:00 |
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| lcuk | and the coin bent | 22:00 |
| lcuk | but the plug remained | 22:01 |
| FIQ | what's the switch in mkfs.ext3 to disable journal? | 22:01 |
| FIQ | as it's useless on a flash drive | 22:01 |
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| slonopotamus | FIQ, just run mkfs.ext2 | 22:01 |
| * FIQ is going to swap /home and MyDocs | 22:01 | |
| FIQ | Hm, ok | 22:02 |
| slonopotamus | swap as in interchange or as in swapon/swapoff? :) | 22:02 |
| FIQ | change them | 22:02 |
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| gs94 | hildon-desktop is a part of rootfs right ? | 22:04 |
| gs94 | if there's a bug that's fixed. Do we need a new PR to update it ? :S | 22:04 |
| mece | gs94, that or MohammadAG :) | 22:05 |
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| gs94 | lol what does he do ? | 22:06 |
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| lcuk | gs94, yes we would need a new PR realistically, but MohammadAG does indeed have builds tracking the latest | 22:07 |
| MohammadAG | gs94, global firmware? | 22:07 |
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| gs94 | yes, I meant do we need to flash the package ? | 22:09 |
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| MohammadAG | no, stay tuned :P | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | s/P/)/ | 22:10 |
| gs94 | haha | 22:10 |
| infobot | MohammadAG meant: no, stay tuned :) | 22:10 |
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| MohammadAG | gs94, announcing the community SSU today, hildon-desktop is part of it | 22:10 |
| gs94 | MohammadAG: SSU ? | 22:11 |
| MohammadAG | global firmware only till I figure out a way to generate packages | 22:11 |
| MohammadAG | ~ssu | 22:11 |
| infobot | it has been said that ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU | 22:11 |
| lcuk | actually MohammadAG you arent, you are tracking the latest branch only | 22:11 |
| lcuk | :P | 22:11 |
| MohammadAG | aren't what :) | 22:12 |
| gs94 | hmm, how do they upgrade a binary on rootfs without the need of flashing ? :S | 22:13 |
| slonopotamus | you just aren't :) | 22:13 |
| MohammadAG | gs94, new maemo user? :) | 22:13 |
| slonopotamus | gs94, (oh my!) by putting files on it | 22:13 |
| gs94 | bought the phone two days ago :) | 22:13 |
| gs94 | then what's the need of 'flashing' ? | 22:14 |
| MohammadAG | if you f it up you need to reflash | 22:14 |
| gs94 | if rootfs is editable | 22:14 |
| slonopotamus | gs94, flashing is only needed if you messed things up | 22:14 |
| gs94 | oh | 22:14 |
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| slonopotamus | gs94, because device doesn't have any easy recovery modes | 22:15 |
| gs94 | I thought the boot and kernel files exist on some read-only memory in the device | 22:15 |
| slonopotamus | (like booting from usb/cd for desktop) | 22:15 |
| MohammadAG | there's no read only memory on the device | 22:15 |
| gs94 | great! | 22:15 |
| MohammadAG | indeed, till you write over the block which has your IMEI | 22:16 |
| gs94 | not great! | 22:16 |
| gs94 | what happens if i do that ? | 22:16 |
| MohammadAG | well, probably a permanent brick | 22:16 |
| MohammadAG | not sure if a cold flash would fix that | 22:16 |
| slonopotamus | actually no | 22:16 |
| * slonopotamus has half of that area screwed up on n800 :) | 22:17 | |
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| MohammadAG | but N800 != N900 :P | 22:17 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: does that mean that we can change the IMEI at-will? | 22:19 |
| * kerio does an evil laugh | 22:19 | |
| MohammadAG | can't you do that in all mobiles? | 22:19 |
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| kerio | ._. way to spoil my laugh | 22:19 |
| MohammadAG | afaik on S60 devices you could use NSS | 22:19 |
| * MohammadAG does an evil laugh | 22:20 | |
| slonopotamus | kerio, sure you can | 22:20 |
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| FIQ | lol, changing IMEI to whatever you want | 22:21 |
| kerio | i'd like to complain about dbus-switchboard not telling me about the fact that i have to tap "ok" on the n900 | 22:21 |
| kerio | i really waited 10 minutes on my ssh session | 22:21 |
| slonopotamus | dbus-switchboard - ? | 22:22 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | hi, you seem to use gypsy | 22:27 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | where can I find help on that? | 22:28 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | when I do that: | 22:28 |
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| gs94 | is the IMEI stored in the filesystem ? | 22:31 |
| MohammadAG | no | 22:31 |
| MohammadAG | /dev/mtd1 afaik | 22:31 |
| MohammadAG | lemme check | 22:31 |
| E0x | what make the hildon-desktop panel ( where the time and battery icon are ) stick | 22:31 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | /usr/libexec/gypsy-daemon --no-daemon | 22:31 |
| E0x | in all desktop ? | 22:31 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | then I do that: | 22:31 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | mdbus2 -s org.freedesktop.Gypsy /org/freedesktop/Gypsy org.freedesktop.Gypsy.Server.Create /dev/smd27 | 22:31 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | and the gypsy-daemon exits | 22:32 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | how is gypsy daemon supposed to be used? | 22:33 |
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| GNUtoo|laptop | DocScrutinizer, hi | 22:49 |
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| kakashi_ | I have a small problem, i think my maemo has removed kernel from itself, when I tried to do apt-get dist-upgrade :| | 23:13 |
| kakashi_ | now I cant do anything | 23:13 |
| kakashi_ | neither can I flash | 23:13 |
| kakashi_ | is there any way out? | 23:13 |
| kakashi_ | can somebody please help me? | 23:13 |
| Appiah | what happens when you try to flash? | 23:13 |
| Appiah | my friend did something like that (apt-get dist-upgrade) and could not start the n900.. so he just flashed | 23:14 |
| kakashi_ | I get SB device found found at bus 001, device address 021 | 23:14 |
| kakashi_ | the problem with mine is that I have nitdroid too, so it is a fixed mbr | 23:14 |
| kakashi_ | I can't even flash the emmc | 23:15 |
| ShadowJK | kernel isn't needed for flashing | 23:15 |
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| ShadowJK | so do you have flasher running before you plug in n900? | 23:16 |
| lcuk | kakashi_, reboot your laptop, plug directly into proper port (not a hub) ? | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | apt-get dist-upgrade is known to fail and deprecated | 23:17 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | does someone knows how to make gypsy work? | 23:17 |
| lcuk | its never been appreciated in maemo :P since its a gui system and you have to gainroot to it :P | 23:18 |
| kerio | what's that supposed to do anyway | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | usual problem is if you create a state where kernel doesn't match modules -> reflash needed (if you can't revert to a matching kernel) | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | IMEI is stored in cellmo, not anywhere in cal or rootfs | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | hi GNUtoo|laptop | 23:19 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I wonder how to make gypsy work | 23:19 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | hi | 23:19 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | when I do that: | 23:20 |
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| pyther | Hello | 23:20 |
| pyther | Hello | 23:20 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | /usr/libexec/gypsy-daemon --no-daemon it quits under fso | 23:20 |
| pyther | Is there anyway to report a broken package? | 23:20 |
| lcuk | prove theres a broken package first. | 23:20 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | http://pastebin.com/gH617yvj | 23:20 |
| pyther | lcuk: ses | 23:20 |
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| pyther | dpkg -L doesn't list any binaries and only documentation | 23:21 |
| lcuk | is it in extras? | 23:21 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | DocScrutinizer, maemo uses stock gypsy no? | 23:21 |
| pyther | lcuk: no devel | 23:21 |
| kakashi_ | hmm... seems like something worked | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | GNUtoo|laptop: not afaik | 23:22 |
| kakashi_ | I put the battery after connecting | 23:22 |
| lcuk | then report it to who? if you insist theres a maintainer email address | 23:22 |
| lcuk | but its there for -devel purposes | 23:22 |
| lcuk | not anything official todo really | 23:22 |
| kakashi_ | but hey, dist-upgrade is deprecated ? | 23:22 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo#gypsy_daemon is wrong then? | 23:22 |
| kakashi_ | I didn't know | 23:22 |
| pyther | I thought devel was like a testing dir :-/ | 23:23 |
| lcuk | yes | 23:23 |
| lcuk | it is | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Using_Location_API | 23:23 |
| pyther | well I figured packages with no content really don't belong | 23:23 |
| lcuk | pyther, the package contains stuff? | 23:24 |
| lcuk | just not what you were expecting | 23:24 |
| lcuk | ie, talk to the dev and dont wail here | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | GNUtoo|laptop: the fact there *is* some gypsy implementation doesn't mean maemo stock is using it | 23:24 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ah ok | 23:25 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | so the thing is incorrect | 23:25 |
| pyther | lcuk: lcuk just a changelog, readme, and copyright file | 23:25 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | This appears to be free to me: http://gypsy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ | 23:25 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | oops I forgott the quotes | 23:25 |
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| lcuk | pyther, so mail the developer and talk to him, really, thats it. | 23:26 |
| lcuk | or move to the next one | 23:26 |
| ShadowJK | kakashi_, well atleast don't do dist-upgrade on maemo | 23:27 |
| pyther | ok | 23:27 |
| kakashi_ | ShadowJK, thanks for the advice, I just killed my phone now :) | 23:27 |
| pyther | Is there anyway to see what packages I have installed from devel? | 23:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GNUtoo|laptop: refer to history of that wikipage | 23:32 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ah ok | 23:32 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | I'll look | 23:33 |
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| pyther | I wonder how hard it would be to compile a static mplayer binary | 23:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pyther: I own a pkg that has no binaries and yet is considered highly useful and even is in extras now, with "approval" by Nokia :-D | 23:47 |
| PerfDave | Hey, quick question - where's the easiest place to get wget for my N900? | 23:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | one of the most important pkgs on maemo seems to be exactly same: rootsh | 23:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | PerfDave: HAM? | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | or apt-get? | 23:49 |
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| PerfDave | What's a HAM? | 23:49 |
| PerfDave | It's not in the N900 application manager | 23:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it is, you just don't see it :-P | 23:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | apt-get install wget | 23:50 |
| lcuk | gnite #maemo \o | 23:51 |
| PerfDave | Fair enough, thanks DocScrutinizer | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | wget is a cmdline app, so probably isn't in HAM user category. Install via apt-get | 23:51 |
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