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| steinex | vibra? | 00:01 |
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| pupnik | so did I miss any lasting substitute for pulseaudio? | 00:10 |
| pupnik | NO. NO NONONO www.collabora.co.uk/projects/pulseaudio/ - | 00:11 |
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| crashanddie | TiagoTiago: please deactivate your away script | 00:24 |
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| mc_teo | i live in ireland | 00:26 |
| mc_teo | which means none of the major websites have any of the barcodes in their dbs | 00:26 |
| mc_teo | so i have to like search for a while to get something that actually works in mbarcode | 00:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: hehehe :-S | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: also a 'fan' of PA? | 00:28 |
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| pupnik | PID PPID USER STAT RSS %MEM %CPU COMMAND | 00:29 |
| pupnik | 1642 1571 user R 16824 6.8 42.7 /usr/bin/gemrb | 00:29 |
| pupnik | 780 1 pulse R < 3792 1.5 35.6 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority | 00:29 |
| pupnik | end. of. story. | 00:29 |
| TiagoTiago | sorry 'bout the away msgs , it was on by dwefault on X-chat and i hadn' noticed it yet u.u | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | isn't it amazing how Poettering and redhat managed to shove that crap down everybody's throat, just for no good reason? | 00:30 |
| crashanddie | TiagoTiago: use /away if you want, just make sure it doesn't pollute the channels you're in | 00:31 |
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| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: that's the worst i've ever seen on any game on N900 | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | allegedly PA was starting to do everything much better than ALSA (which has been managed by Suse/Novel ever since - nooo, surely didn't matter), and now we got another layer of soundserver over ALSA card interfaces, and the only two things it actually gave us which ALSA doesn't are audio-over-IP and hotswitching of devices | 00:33 |
| pupnik | need to completely replace both openal and bypass pulse | 00:33 |
| pupnik | yep! | 00:33 |
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| ShadowJK | I did wonder, when pulseaudio used too much CPU on my desktop, how they'd make it work on a limited cpu.. | 00:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the only two *useful* things, but then it also introduces all kinds of borkedness like the CPU usage and forcing a new audio API onto every app | 00:34 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, arguably it also gave an API with comprehendable documentation ;p | 00:35 |
| ShadowJK | most alsa apps remain buggy until they become so popular an alsa dev has to come add the voodoo to fix them | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, maybe the documentation of ALSA could be better, but that could have been done | 00:35 |
| pupnik | it might be fixable performance-wise | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 00:36 |
| pupnik | but a few things are atrocious, like the behavior when underruns occur | 00:36 |
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| pupnik | time to go kill a mewling kitten or two | 00:36 |
| pupnik | heh, cheers nox | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: admittedly we had a long way to go until we considered ALSA working correctly, on twinklephone, but then I don't see PA is *any* better wrt that | 00:37 |
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| ShadowJK | my experience with alsa and underruns has been that it does something like: turn up volume to max, play burst of noise, corrupt all delay measurements | 00:37 |
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| ShadowJK | pulseaudio on the other hand seems to just hang and not kill my ears :-) | 00:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: not reproducible here, at least since ALSA 1.0.1 or somesuch | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | 0.98 had a few nasty bugs still | 00:39 |
| ShadowJK | I never used alsa when it was 0.x | 00:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, I don't get it how you need to discard and rewrite from scratch a whole framework, just because you are too lazy to study the docs and sources. PA is no % better than ALSA | 00:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok, there are bugs in ALSA? fix then!! | 00:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no docs? write them! | 00:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw -> http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/alsa-lib/group___p_c_m.html | 00:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I agree that's not great, but then otoh how many projects have a really better doc? | 00:45 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: as you mention it... I had this wierd behaviour of low sound in earspeaker, once I just touched all controls and now it seems to be loud enough to hear someone... | 00:45 |
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| smhar | is there a way to enter text using handwritting in N900? | 00:48 |
| chem|st | sound behaviour seems to be random sometimes and even with PA niced all the way up there is still something having a hickup down left | 00:48 |
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| chem|st | smhar: garnettVM | 00:48 |
| chem|st | smhar: nevermind just kidding... | 00:48 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: there is a fix to pulseaudio | 00:49 |
| chem|st | smhar: for chinese only afaik (please tell me wrong) | 00:49 |
| smhar | chem|st, you got me high for just a little | 00:49 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: to prevent skipping | 00:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | chem|st: however - it's not public | 00:49 |
| MohammadAG51 | PR1.3, i wonder when that is | 00:50 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: the skipping isn't the problem it is to have no sound or scrambled | 00:50 |
| chem|st | well if the no sound means it skips then well... | 00:50 |
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| chem|st | I still dont get why the drivers are so closed up... still | 00:52 |
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| TiagoTiago | are we gonna have Swype onthe N900? | 00:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: btw I don't get what delay measurements you refer to. If you use a ring buffer with two segments of length N then you know the playback shall be off by N<delay<2N - as long as no plugins used. For plugin delay I dunno if there's any concept at all to deal with them, but they are supposed to be small enough not to matter | 00:54 |
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| chem|st | TiagoTiago: is swype available for nitdroid? then yes if not I doubt it | 00:58 |
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| trumee | SpeedEvil, will tha PA fix overcome the sip bug #10388? | 01:00 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? | 01:00 |
| lcuk | pupAssembly results look uber cool | 01:00 |
| lcuk | digging through the js1k stuff | 01:00 |
| lcuk | damn pupnik left | 01:00 |
| TiagoTiago | why isn't voltage used to measure battery charge while recharging? | 01:00 |
| lcuk | http://hackaday.com/2010/08/08/behind-the-scenes-of-a-1k-graphics-demo/ | 01:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: also buffer underruns clearly will playback the old content of the other end of the ringbuffer. I don't see how they could start to act up, change volume and playback random noise | 01:01 |
| trumee | it seems that bug is not a sip issue rather a PA/alsa issue | 01:01 |
| lcuk | js1k.com/demo/79 is cool as are lots of the others | 01:01 |
| SpeedEvil1 | dunno trumee | 01:02 |
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| trumee | SpeedEvil, is that fix on maemo bugzilla? | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | was something about choppy audio | 01:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | an internal fix with a note that nokia does not say when it will release releases at the end | 01:03 |
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| trumee | hmm. quick search doesnt reveal it | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: why should it? | 01:05 |
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| TiagoTiago | I'm looking at the graph from BatteryGraph and it gives a decent approximation of the amount of charge in the battery and it is the only readout that contimues to be updated while the charger is plugged | 01:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that internal fix and "don't publish any source before binary hits the endusers' devices" policy - just to avoid happening again their competitors roll out a device like pre with stuff Nokia "invented" and not yet shipped - that's actually so annoying... no words for that | 01:11 |
| trumee | SpeedEvil, search on PA and fixed doesnt bring up that bug | 01:12 |
| TiagoTiago | well, "annoyning" is a word.... | 01:12 |
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| TiagoTiago | at least if spelled correctly | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: LiIon charging is way more complex than you seem to think. Yet basically it's stupid simple to charge, just to analyze state is a bit more complex | 01:14 |
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| TiagoTiago | like i said, the lines in the graph make sense | 01:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you *think* they do | 01:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: so complain with author of that batterygraph app? I'm not using it and I see no such problems anywhere | 01:20 |
| TiagoTiago | unless they try to use the "great minds think alike" excuse/kiss-assery | 01:20 |
| TiagoTiago | what problem? | 01:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | your problem | 01:20 |
| TiagoTiago | what's my problem? | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah what's your problem?? | 01:20 |
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| TiagoTiago | lol | 01:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which brings us back to [2010-08-10 00:05:17] <DocScrutinizer> TiagoTiago: why should it? | 01:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | trumee: It doesn't. | 01:21 |
| SpeedEvil | trumee: I don't remember which component it was on, it wasn't on media playeer. | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | wasn't on pulseaudio | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | maybe media | 01:22 |
| trumee | SpeedEvil, hmm. | 01:22 |
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| MohammadAG51 | PA fix? | 01:23 |
| TiagoTiago | Well, other means to measure battery charge while charging doesn't seem to work, the battery icon oin the status bar for exaple doesn't inform anything about the current battery charge other than it's going up | 01:23 |
| trumee | SpeedEvil, media and fixed brings up 233 bugs | 01:23 |
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| MohammadAG51 | bug 7190 | 01:24 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7190 music stutters while multi-tasking, especially browsing web | 01:24 |
| trumee | MohammadAG51, yeah. any idea which one is that? | 01:24 |
| MohammadAG51 | faster than a bot | 01:24 |
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| trumee | MohammadAG51, thanks for pointing that out | 01:27 |
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| tybollt | ecoach users? | 01:28 |
| tybollt | w/ the symbian app similar to ecoach you get altitude measurements as well - guess ecoach doesn't extract that from the gps? | 01:29 |
| tybollt | are there other better apps for this? | 01:29 |
| lcuk | tybollt, contact sampo, he is very receptive to feedback | 01:30 |
| SpeedEvil | yes, that one MohammadAG51 | 01:30 |
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| alturiak | tybollt: it does, altough not very accurate. gps recorder is quite nice, too. they both have their use. | 01:31 |
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| TiagoTiago | is it possible to filter The GPS coordinates before sending them to programs reading them, somthing like an average of the last few N positions weigthed by precision: | 01:33 |
| TiagoTiago | weighted by their precisions* | 01:35 |
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| TiagoTiago | ? | 01:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: why? | 01:37 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS contains some GPS accuracy info | 01:37 |
| SpeedEvil | I have not yet extracted noise info | 01:37 |
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| TiagoTiago | i left mapero running over nigth by the window and the track recorded when i woke up was filled with spikes hundred of meters away forom the center position | 01:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | Windows can be opaque. | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Some energy saving windows have coatings that block GPS | 01:39 |
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| TiagoTiago | the other day driving around the track recorded appeared to be the path of someonee playing GTA, with a tank blasting thru buildings | 01:40 |
| TiagoTiago | like on that movie ( i think it was a 007 one) with the tank doing powerslides and demolishimg brick walls | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Same with cars | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | some block GPS | 01:42 |
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| BCMM_ | it would be nice if applications that can leave a track could be configured to leave a gap where the error is above a specified amount | 01:43 |
| TiagoTiago | the point is, with a filtering like i suggested, i expect the coordinates programs get would appear much closer to reality | 01:43 |
| alturiak | same for ecoach, it only polls every two seconds - and sometimes, the position is way off, leaving a nasty spike in the track | 01:43 |
| BCMM_ | if i'm walking about in town with maep running, it leaves spiky patterns on the trace every time i go into a building | 01:44 |
| SpeedEvil | also - you need a decent signal if you're expecting it to do dynamics | 01:44 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: you can. | 01:44 |
| TiagoTiago | if the coordinate has a precision of hundreds of meters it would have very little weight | 01:44 |
| alturiak | even in the field, without anything blocking gps ;-) | 01:44 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: though only with grep | 01:44 |
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| TiagoTiago | spikes would be significantly reduced and made closer to more accurate emeasurements | 01:46 |
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| TiagoTiago | at least if the algorithm works as i expect | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: The GPS outputs confidence figures. | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | You can use those. | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Much stuff does not. | 01:47 |
| TiagoTiago | yep | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | This is a bug on behalf of the apps. | 01:47 |
| TiagoTiago | many do show the circle of where you might be, but they still have the coordinate umtouvhed | 01:48 |
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| TiagoTiago | they are aware of the estimated error margin, they just don't do much about it | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | they can't. | 01:49 |
| TiagoTiago | with my algorithm they might | 01:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Or rather - they can't magically guess what is the position is. | 01:50 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm actually 1/4 through coding a software GPS in assembler for stm32. | 01:50 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 01:50 |
| TiagoTiago | my algorithm should help them make a more accurate guess about the real position | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | What algorithm - sorry - I missed that. | 01:51 |
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| TiagoTiago | current position = average of N previous positions weigthed by their respective precisions | 01:52 |
| TiagoTiago | erm | 01:53 |
| TiagoTiago | = average of current position and the last N positions* | 01:53 |
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| Robot101 | yeah the reporting location in your status had loads of fun bugs there | 01:55 |
| TiagoTiago | if it works as i expect it to, it shloud reducee significcanrtly the imprecision spikes in thee recorded track keeping the points closer to the real coordinates | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | That works but only if you know it's static | 01:55 |
| cehteh | note that every averaging also induces latency | 01:55 |
| Robot101 | if the accuracy plummets and the position goes miles away, but your previous position was within the tolerance, and more accurate, it makes more sense not to jump your position around | 01:55 |
| TiagoTiago | shloud work for moving measuremens as well, might need to also weight by how recent each prwvious measwuremnt is | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | There is also the issue that most apps don't get the difference between GPS and cell positioning. | 01:56 |
| cehteh | doesnt i have a 'precision' for each measurement? | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | cell positioning can be hundreds of km out | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | yes, it does | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_GPS_Reverse_Engineering | 01:56 |
| TiagoTiago | what is the precision reported for cell towers? | 01:56 |
| Robot101 | yeah, the jumping from GPS to cell positioning would make people jump cities on their IM status depending if they had GPS or not | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | though there is proabbly a better link to liblocation | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/liblocation/ | 01:57 |
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| cehteh | so you can include that in your averaging .. if accuracy drops AND the position is farer of than with the current speed would be possible then just drop it or average it .. but if accuracy is high give a higher preference to the current measurement and dont put much weight into averaging previous positions | 01:57 |
| cehteh | there is this 'jspeed' applet which is pretty unuseable because it doesnt make any averaging btw .. | 01:59 |
| TiagoTiago | i' not saying my algorithm is perfect, but i expect it to work much better than raw coordinates except in worse case scenarios (where it probably wouldn't be worst than raw measurements in terms of how wrong it can get) | 01:59 |
| cehteh | does liblocation really provide raw data? i expect its already a bit corrected and averaged in the gps | 02:00 |
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| cehteh | firmware stack or whatever works there | 02:00 |
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| TiagoTiago | is that what mappero uses? | 02:01 |
| cehteh | no idea | 02:01 |
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| TiagoTiago | there is a tiny nic the smooth part of the "arm" of my glasses gthat goes behind my left ear, barelly noticeable but it's gradually scraping the skin there :( | 02:03 |
| BCMM_ | TiagoTiago: you could cover it with a tiny amount of nail varnish | 02:04 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, that sounds like it might work, thanx :) | 02:04 |
| BCMM_ | nail varnish has a multitude of good uses | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: It does not. | 02:07 |
| BCMM_ | or you could use tape, since glasses with sticky tape on them earn you geek points | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: Raw data in this case would mean raw psuedoranges - which are the raw relative doppler rates to the satellites. | 02:08 |
| TiagoTiago | how those military things work qith GPS, balls cooking powerdull antennas? | 02:08 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: It does not provide that. | 02:08 |
| TiagoTiago | damn typos | 02:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | cehteh: It provides position only, and information about the errors on that position. | 02:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | (well - velociry and error velocity too) | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Also sats and their signals. | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | But no more detailed information that would let you usefully postprocess the signal. | 02:09 |
| TiagoTiago | isn't actually signal/noise ratio? | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a couple of days of data that I need to analyse. | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: No, it's really horribly more complex than that. | 02:10 |
| TiagoTiago | isn't it* | 02:10 |
| BCMM_ | TiagoTiago: which military things? | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: It's 'basically' the error dispersion found by the kalman filter that's inside the GPS. | 02:10 |
| TiagoTiago | drones, bomb disposal bots, those darpa driverless racers etc | 02:10 |
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| TiagoTiago | wow | 02:10 |
| BCMM_ | TiagoTiago: there are certain types of GPS signals that are used only by the US mil, and iirc the workings of some of them are secret | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Each sat broadcasts its timestamp. The GPS takes the known orbits, the timestamps, and works out a position from these. | 02:11 |
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| TiagoTiago | i thought they let civilians use GPS to the full centimeter precision | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: If there are 4 sats, you can work out an unambiguous 3D position. (if they are in the right place) | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: If there are 5 sats however - the errors won't quite match up, and you cannot 'solve' the position to a point - it comes out as a probability. | 02:12 |
| SpeedEvil | If you ignore any satellite you get a different solution. | 02:12 |
| TiagoTiago | wouldn't 3 sats be enough to get a position on earth and a position in earth's orbit? | 02:12 |
| SpeedEvil | no, you need time too. | 02:12 |
| BCMM_ | TiagoTiago: i believe they subsequently got even better military signals | 02:12 |
| SpeedEvil | 3 sats give a 2d fix. | 02:12 |
| SpeedEvil | With WAAS/EGNOS/... you get a ~2m error. | 02:13 |
| BCMM_ | TiagoTiago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_signals#Military_.28M-code.29 - hopelessly vague, i'm afraid | 02:13 |
| TiagoTiago | distance from e points should be enough for two possible 3d coordinates | 02:13 |
| SpeedEvil | With local differential GPS - which costs lots - you get centimetric. | 02:13 |
| SpeedEvil | e? | 02:13 |
| TiagoTiago | 3 points* | 02:13 |
| TiagoTiago | gah | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: you don't have a perfect time. | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: so you need 4 for a 3d fix | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: yep, that unawareness-of-precision thing in most apps is rather annoying. Fahrplan for example gave me wrong schedule for my bus, as it picked the station from a raw-position that libloc delivered 4s after switching on, and the station was off 1500m | 02:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | :/ | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | And the m-code docs are published in _lots_ more detail than that. | 02:15 |
| SpeedEvil | It's 'just' the key which is secret. | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, thank god it's been raining cats and dogs | 02:15 |
| SpeedEvil | AIUI | 02:15 |
| BCMM_ | is it possible for an application that doesn't know about precision to be given the cell-tower location? | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Or rather. | 02:16 |
| TiagoTiago | time between the signal sent and you getting it gives you distance, kmowing the position of the 3 emiters and your distsnce to the should let you calculate 2 possible positions | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: you don't know the local time though | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Being one microsecond off in your local time gets you a position error of 300m. | 02:17 |
| BCMM_ | (i presume that when i see 0 sats and my location is given as a stationary point that is not where i am with an error of many hundreds of meters, that position is the cell tower i'm connected to, right?) | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: So you have to solve for time. | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: yes | 02:17 |
| TiagoTiago | well, up to the precision of the devicem's internal clock | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: which is perhaps accurate to a microsecond a second - best case. | 02:17 |
| BCMM_ | on a sorta-related thing, any advances on setting the n900's clock from GPS? | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: The local clock - without lock to the satellites - is no better than around 100ppm. | 02:18 |
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| BCMM_ | last i heard, it basically didn't work | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: it is not meant to. | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10163 | 02:19 |
| povbot | Bug 10163: GPS does not automatically set time of device. | 02:19 |
| BCMM_ | oh | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: So you have to also solve for time, to get an accurate position. Hence 3 sats = 2d fix, 4 sats = 3d | 02:19 |
| TiagoTiago | isn't there some sort of phase detection or even differences in the signal reeceived that would let you measure time with more p.recision than the devices clock's? | 02:20 |
| BCMM_ | so when you set it to automatically update the time, how is it supposed to do it? NTP? something in one of the GSM protocols? | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: try to stop speed of light with a stopwatch ;-) | 02:20 |
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| BCMM_ | ah, bug says GSM - so if it doesn't work for me, it's probably my network's fault? | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | internal clock is off by seconds rather than microseconds, and microseconds is quite sufficiently inaccurate a granularity even | 02:21 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, cannot stop it, but I can send it on a U turn | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I *knew* you'd say that :-D | 02:21 |
| lcuk | :D | 02:21 |
| TiagoTiago | the fourth is to calibrate the time imprecision? | 02:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the fourth is the clock | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | *IS* even | 02:22 |
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| TiagoTiago | hm | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: yes | 02:23 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: well - no | 02:23 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 02:23 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: All four are used to derive both the local time, and a position. | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | to be precise, you get just ratiometric values for distance to 4 sats first | 02:23 |
| * lcuk likes answers like that | 02:23 | |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: one is not used as a clock | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's jsut when you finally decided your exact position then you can get microsecond accurate time from sats | 02:24 |
| lcuk | the results from each sat allows cross referencing between them | 02:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | In 'reality' all of the differential ranges and range-rates of the satellites are thrown together in a kalman filter, which spits out position/velocity/uncertainty values. | 02:24 |
| * lcuk considered this sort of algorithm for positioning n900s using sound o_O | 02:25 | |
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| SpeedEvil | :) | 02:25 |
| TiagoTiago | please elaborate | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | distance to 1.sat=1.0, to 2nd=1.0000235, to 3rd=0.94598, to 4th=1.100234 | 02:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps_f.html - read that. | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | this together with pos of the 4 sat gives you your pos | 02:26 |
| SpeedEvil | You don't get distances, you get psuedoranges. | 02:26 |
| TiagoTiago | i mean the audio GPS thing | 02:26 |
| SpeedEvil | The satellites all broadcast the current time. | 02:26 |
| SpeedEvil | ah - right | 02:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Sonar should be quite possible in a limited form | 02:26 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago, just part of doing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM it was one of a few algorithms I looked at | 02:27 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, how often is timestamp transmitted? | 02:28 |
| lcuk | or is that the signal itself | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: the simple answer to that is 'once every 30s' | 02:28 |
| lcuk | fair enough | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: this is somewhat misleading, as this is how often it transmits an actual time. | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: however - there are implied timestamps by the format of the signal at 1/1024th of a second, 1/50th of a second, and also smaller intervals. | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | the signal is phaselocked to time though | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - 6s too | 02:29 |
| lcuk | cool | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | 6s data packets, one of 5 has a timestamp in, transmitted at 50bps, with each bit repeated 20 times. | 02:30 |
| lcuk | and I am guessing doppler is taken into account on the recv, but I will read the rest of the posting you did | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: basically, yes. Doppler, and yourvelocity + satvelocity | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | And local clock drift | 02:30 |
| lcuk | it doesn't know your vel | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically doppler is one of the obstacles why you need so high effort to really receive the sats | 02:31 |
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| lcuk | the bigger obstacle literally is buildings and reflections | 02:31 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: It does not generate every position from scratch. It uses the current estimate of position to work out the time, and fresh position info from the changes in signal. | 02:31 |
| SpeedEvil | And multipath adds fun. | 02:31 |
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| lcuk | ahh | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Basically you can ignore any 'late' reflections, if you do things carefully, without much affecting the ignal. | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 02:32 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, GPS signal bounces, i hadn't thought about that before, interesting issue | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Multipath that is shorter than 1us is 'simply' ignored. | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: It can - with more smarts be used to augment the signal, and improve lock. | 02:33 |
| lcuk | cool | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm frequently 'mirrored' inside a building with high wall in front of me, rather than correct pos outside | 02:33 |
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| TiagoTiago | does the N900 uses the bounces for enhacement? | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | just when a less tall building is behind me though | 02:34 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Essentially nothing is known about the algorithms of the n900 gps | 02:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so most of 'visible' sky is by refexion on that high building | 02:34 |
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| lcuk | does your position actually show reflected? | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 02:35 |
| * lcuk rarely attempts gps other than in car | 02:35 | |
| DocScrutinizer | incl reversal of velocity and direction | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | well not velocity | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Interesting. | 02:36 |
| TiagoTiago | indeed | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | but movement vector and change of pos, so | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~2119 | 02:36 |
| infobot | The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. | 02:36 |
| TiagoTiago | :) | 02:36 |
| TiagoTiago | is the GPS code just a binary blob or a firmware running separatedly in the GPS chip itself? | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | #2 | 02:38 |
| SpeedEvil | It's inside the cellmo | 02:38 |
| SpeedEvil | reportedly. | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | or maybe even in rapuyama | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | though the ds of the gps chip itself suggests there's not much in rapuyama done for calculation of GPS | 02:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | posiibly A(gps) | 02:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | ds? | 02:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I diddn't see one. | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, poroduct blabla sheet | 02:40 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 02:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think I saw that. | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | "low workload, siutable even for weak AP systems" bla bla bla | 02:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | ah | 02:42 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | damn router keeps crashing and needing to be booted :( | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12028&contentId=4636 | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12776&contentId=30978 | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, on re-reading it, it's not exactly mentioned | 02:46 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | I wonder if it's actually someone attacking it from the internet | 02:47 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | did i miss anything while my connection was down? | 02:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, it says 'one-chip-solution to bring GPS to any cellphone" (OWTTE), that makes me think there's no blob on rapuyama | 02:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | perhaps. | 02:52 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I nevertheless wonder what's that "Software GPS Engine" | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | block sitting outside everything | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/ti_navilink_5.pdf | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | schematic says I2C | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | It's like neo1973 I guess | 02:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | and n810 | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | the GPS chip is a softradio. It handles all of the hard-realtime, and correlators. | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | And RF frontendy stuff. | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | The CPU is left with position calculation, and configuring all of these to scan for sats based on 'stuff'. | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | The GPS chip has no idea at all of position, only PRNs and relative samplerates | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe, maybe not. IIRC it's same chip like in N810 though, and there we know about the driver being a big bad blob, no? | 02:56 |
| TiagoTiago_ | soft radio? does this means programs can use it for other purposes? | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, like creating a general spectrogram of GPS band | 02:57 |
| TiagoTiago_ | nice | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe | 02:57 |
| TiagoTiago_ | do want | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago_: No. | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago_: It means in principle it can be flexibly configured to recieve GPS signals. | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's as much a softradio as is the radio inside the broadcom BT chip | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago_: but you can't do this, as it's connected to teh cellmo | 02:58 |
| TiagoTiago_ | :( | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly, and I guess that's why AGPS over WLAN doesn't fly. Not even if your position is guessed correctly to the .001 lon/lat | 02:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | simply because there's no way at all to talk to the GPS from outside to substitute the celltower based assist | 03:00 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | is it closed due to legislations, money or what? | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | 'A' living in his own little autistic rapuyama world | 03:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago_: lack of spec to open it, and lack of desire | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | it is closed due to design is not containing any chromium | 03:02 |
| TiagoTiago_ | do you know of a program that shows where the satellites are in the sky in real tiime? | 03:02 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 03:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I forget which app it was though | 03:03 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | can you find out with less work than it would take me? | 03:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tangoGPS on FR, and the winmo app on Omnia9000 | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | the one was correct when looking down on it, the other when holding it up to the sky :-P | 03:04 |
| TiagoTiago_ | FR is Fremantle? | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | freerunner | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | openmoko | 03:04 |
| TiagoTiago_ | ah | 03:04 |
| TiagoTiago_ | anym for the N900? | 03:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | I vaguely recall it was ecoach | 03:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | heh, maybe... | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: what was the prog to delete the stored pickle (alm/eph)? | 03:07 |
| SpeedEvil | umm | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wouldn't feel surprised to find strace showing it only talks to modem | 03:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's be a really good explanation why they came not up with a "rm /etc/foo/bar" line | 03:08 |
| TiagoTiago_ | https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Skyhook_Wireless seems interesting | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | no it isn't | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: it was in one of the GPS slow to lock sets. | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | err bugs | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago_: THIS is interesting: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ooh attachment, I see | 03:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | es | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, now for some walk and maybe test GPS a little :-D | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | es? | 03:11 |
| smhar | finally, scout now searches notes and company as well.. I am happy :-) | 03:11 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | smhar what does it say about his power level? | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil1 | DocScrutinizer: do you have lcuk's app? | 03:16 |
| SpeedEvil1 | or do I mean luke-jrs. | 03:16 |
| SpeedEvil1 | The GPS hardware logger | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 03:16 |
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| SpeedEvil1 | luke-jr: | 03:17 |
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| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/gps2.c | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | ah yes | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | that | 03:22 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: now have GPRS/UMTS + GPS working on Gentoo… :D | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | umm? | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | h | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | you mean on the phone? | 03:22 |
| luke-jr | on N900 | 03:23 |
| TiagoTiago | How can figure out why microB keeps refreshing some pages making it unusablea? | 03:23 |
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| TiagoTiago | help please? | 03:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | switch off js | 03:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | any particular pages? | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: that's a nice .c file, but I don't think I can't live on without compiling it right away | 03:32 |
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| * GeneralAntilles yawns | 03:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer | moo GeneralAntilles | 03:32 |
| TiagoTiago | http://pastebin.com and threads in talk.maemo.org | 03:33 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: it's nice in that it gives all of the data theGPS emits.I don't think I've seen a comparable logger | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | errm, location test gui? | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | or whatever it's called | 03:33 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm, true maybe | 03:33 |
| TiagoTiago | SpeedEvil , http://pastebin.com and threads in talk.maemo.org for example | 03:36 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 03:37 |
| SpeedEvil | I diddddn't realise that was an answer | 03:37 |
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| pupnik | here's an idea: next device -- support hardware mixing | 03:39 |
| pupnik | cat /proc/asound/pcm | 03:39 |
| pupnik | 00-00: AIC34 tlv320aic3x-I2S-0 : : playback 1 : capture 1 | 03:39 |
| TiagoTiago | disabling JS doesn't seem to help :/ | 03:40 |
| SpeedEvil | pastebin seems to work for me | 03:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | on the N900? wfm | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: ?? | 03:41 |
| TiagoTiago | yeah, it's somthing on my device, other people tried it and told me it worked for them | 03:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | rm /home/user/.mozilla/microb/prefs* | 03:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | then restart all browser instances | 03:42 |
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| TiagoTiago | i'll not loose boorkmarks, addressbar history, memorized passwords nor anything like that, will i? | 03:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | nope | 03:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | only preferences | 03:45 |
| TiagoTiago | k | 03:45 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: screw bluetooth headsets :) | 03:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: I don't get a word | 03:46 |
| MohammadAG51 | neither do I | 03:47 |
| smhar | TiagoTiago, what power level? | 03:48 |
| pupnik | 00-00: emu10k1 : ADC Capture/Standard PCM Playback : playback 32 : capture 1 | 03:51 |
| TiagoTiago | smhar: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Over%20nine%20thousand&defid=2466884 | 03:51 |
| pupnik | 00-00: trident_dx_nx : Trident 4DWave : playback 32 : capture 1 | 03:52 |
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| TiagoTiago | is there a bug with leaving microB loading a page in the backgorund? | 03:56 |
| TiagoTiago | gah, even google.com keeps refrshing now Dx | 03:57 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: I'll have you know I got GPRS/UMTS and GPS working on Gentoo before Tonal and Spivak! | 03:58 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 03:58 |
| TiagoTiago | neither disabling JS nor rm'ing the browser prefs made any difference :( | 03:58 |
| TiagoTiago | what could be causing this? | 03:59 |
| pupnik | what is the problem TiagoTiago | 04:01 |
| luke-jr | he's been spamming it in here for a while now | 04:01 |
| luke-jr | some crappy sites do some auto-refresh thing in microB | 04:01 |
| TiagoTiago | microB keeps refreshing some pages :( | 04:01 |
| TiagoTiago | inckuding threads on talk.maemo.org | 04:02 |
| pupnik | never seen that, no idea as to cause | 04:03 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: maybe some lame plugin? | 04:05 |
| TiagoTiago | "Redirection limit for this URL exceeded. Unable to load the requested page. This may be caused by cookies that are blocked." | 04:06 |
| luke-jr | lol | 04:06 |
| pupnik | all soundcards should feature multichannel ADC/DAC with analog, digitally controled mixing :) | 04:06 |
| TiagoTiago | does that tell anything about the underlying issue? | 04:06 |
| luke-jr | pupnik: why? | 04:06 |
| pupnik | sounds like somebody is doing backflips TiagoTiago | 04:07 |
| TiagoTiago | cookies are allowed btw | 04:07 |
| pupnik | does not sound like default behavior | 04:08 |
| pupnik | http://media.photobucket.com/image/soundcraft%20ghost/ibenhad/Ghost/Ghost3.jpg there's a good mixer | 04:09 |
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| Mr_Nobu | pronto you silver spoon up yourself asshole how you doing :) | 04:10 |
| TiagoTiago | no addons other than the ones that came with it | 04:12 |
| pupnik | maybe this is the problem telesp.net.br | 04:13 |
| TiagoTiago | nothing like this on my desktop machine ( it's running WinXP though) | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: OMG please reboot the fckng thing | 04:15 |
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| TiagoTiago | the N900? This issue has been going on for swveral reboots already | 04:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then seems you installed some crap | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | or a virus did that for you | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 04:16 |
| swc|666 | lol | 04:16 |
| TiagoTiago | perhaps, but i can't think of anyting that i installed that would be messing with microB | 04:17 |
| TiagoTiago | how can i diagnose this in further details? | 04:18 |
| swc|666 | debugger | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | no idea | 04:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ask timeless | 04:19 |
| TiagoTiago | is he around right now? | 04:20 |
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| TiagoTiago | btw, i get no issues when i try the sme pages with iceweasel | 04:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | but you can't remeber installing ANY app that _might_ interfere with html at large | 04:22 |
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| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: btw iceweasel would be messign with microB | 04:23 |
| TiagoTiago | things were working for a long time after i installed Iceweasel | 04:23 |
| TiagoTiago | really? who was the genius that decided to make one program fuck up anlother one instead of leaving it alone and doing itms own thing?. | 04:24 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: looking at /var/lib/pulse-nokia i see a lot of params that *might* be tweakable for better performance | 04:24 |
| * DocScrutinizer shrugs and finally takes his walk | 04:24 | |
| pupnik | or am i just praying to .... | 04:25 |
| pupnik | hmm | 04:25 |
| pupnik | ttyl maybe | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: interesting :-) | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | cya l8r | 04:25 |
| TiagoTiago | cya | 04:26 |
| pupnik | grep xprot /var/lib/pulse-nokia/* | 04:26 |
| pupnik | for e.g. | 04:27 |
| pupnik | yeah ttyl | 04:27 |
| TiagoTiago | why would Iceweasel be messing with microB? | 04:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | iceweasel cannot mess with microb | 04:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | they are installed on different /'s | 04:31 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, Iceweasel isn't listed to uninstall, i think it came with EasyDeb | 04:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | yes, that's a chroot, with settings stored in /.debian | 04:32 |
| TiagoTiago | someone here told me it was messing it up, the likelly cause of my issue with microB continuosly refreshing some pages | 04:33 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think luke-jr is right about that. | 04:34 |
| luke-jr | shrug | 04:34 |
| luke-jr | just a possibility | 04:34 |
| TiagoTiago | ok | 04:34 |
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| * TiagoTiago sights | 04:36 | |
| pronto | k | 04:36 |
| TiagoTiago | sighs* | 04:37 |
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| pupnik | sight, then pull trigger slowly | 04:38 |
| pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzbOaN_uEaM cat vs bunny | 04:38 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 04:38 |
| TiagoTiago | bunnies are much more badassy@than most people expect | 04:39 |
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| TiagoTiago | i've seen themfight off things like venomous snakes | 04:40 |
| pupnik | yeah but ... chickens break up rabbit fight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D35uQCtr4EY | 04:40 |
| cehteh | never trust bunnies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rebnrnGLKh0 | 04:40 |
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| TiagoTiago | aw fuck, youtube is anlother page that keeps refrshing Dx | 04:41 |
| TiagoTiago | another* | 04:42 |
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| TiagoTiago | is there a way i can see a log of what microB is thinking when it keeps refreshing a page? | 04:44 |
| SpeedEvil | don't think so | 04:44 |
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| TiagoTiago | how about the page source code as microB sees it? | 04:47 |
| TiagoTiago | ohwhyme, and the http headers too if possible | 04:47 |
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| MohammadAG51 | TiagoTiago, i suggest rejoining in about 6 hours | 04:47 |
| MohammadAG51 | timeless should be here by then | 04:47 |
| TiagoTiago | hm | 04:47 |
| MohammadAG51 | night | 04:48 |
| TiagoTiago | cya | 04:48 |
| TiagoTiago | i'll try to be here again when timeless is, thanx | 04:49 |
| Jucato | "timeless should be here by that time" ... | 04:50 |
| TiagoTiago | heheh | 04:51 |
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| pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibjlbLJ0FQs ASCII Portal on OpenPandora... is badass | 05:00 |
| Jucato | lol that is cool! | 05:05 |
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| cehteh | ehh where to get this ascii-portal? | 05:10 |
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| cehteh | found it | 05:11 |
| TiagoTiago | the official site has binaries for x86 and sourcecode | 05:12 |
| pupnik | Two fullsize SD slots | 05:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | now that's quite interesting. While netmon didn't see any change in Cell-ID, the location test on ACWP (no sats) had a quite decent idea of my changing location. Even though it jumped to rather interesting addresses that didn't look to me like BTS tower locations but nevertheless fixed to a certain street and house | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | then when cell-ID actually changed, the location didn't | 05:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I've been assuming it's reading location that the network tells it somehow | 05:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I haven't gone into details though | 05:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, when location and BTS are completely unrelated wrt to changing their values... | 05:18 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 05:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and the locations - tbh - looked to me like it were of higher probability for me to usually be there or been there before | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe the A database is filled with neighbour-cell | GPS tupels I previously produced | 05:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or netmon is simply buggy | 05:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it locked quite several times, and I restarted it frequently. But maybe it still didn't get the changes in BTS Cell-ID for some reason. At least for me it seemed like there were rather few - too few - cell handovers | 05:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | netmon has crashed several times for me | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | *nod* | 05:24 |
| TiagoTiago | why didn't they make the stylus' profile assymetrical so you wouldn't be able to insert it almost all the qway in only to realise it's backwards? | 05:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Backwards means you can easily pull it out | 05:26 |
| TiagoTiago | hm | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a feature | 05:26 |
| TiagoTiago | i've never had any difivulty pulling it out from the "locked" position.... | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | fine | 05:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | file a bug ticket | 05:28 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: It's harder to pull out with love. | 05:29 |
| SpeedEvil | gloves | 05:29 |
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| TiagoTiago | well, if it actuslly helps some people i would feel bad asking it to stop helping them.... | 05:29 |
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| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: I need to use nails to pull it out of locked | 05:29 |
| TiagoTiago | ah, hm *nods* | 05:29 |
| TiagoTiago | i haven't tried using the N900 with gloves yet | 05:30 |
| luke-jr | the only stylus that I haven't seen a need to invert on occasion was once again my C760 | 05:31 |
| luke-jr | its stylus sticks out past the case | 05:31 |
| luke-jr | and it's round, so you can just rotate if you stick it in wrong | 05:31 |
| TiagoTiago | someone should make gloves with fingernails for precise tapping in cold weather (and mincreased easiness of pulling out things like the stylus) | 05:31 |
| luke-jr | (almost automatic to me) | 05:31 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: us men don't usually have long nails in the first place | 05:31 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: it's not easy | 05:32 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: As the fingernails are attached quite firmly to the finger. | 05:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tipless gloves | 05:32 |
| SpeedEvil | It's really hard to do that with gloves - unless they're tight enough to stop circulation. | 05:32 |
| Macer | TiagoTiago: don't they use like.. sausages in japan? | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | existing since dunno when | 05:32 |
| SpeedEvil | that too. | 05:33 |
| Macer | frozen sausages or something? | 05:33 |
| TiagoTiago | i've just clipped my nails the other day and they still work just fine for precoision tapping and poking the dinks to pull out the stylus etc | 05:33 |
| Macer | i miss the stylus on screen kb :( | 05:33 |
| Macer | the peckboard was nice to have sometimes on the n8x0 | 05:33 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 05:33 |
| Macer | fuck it's hot | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | revisionist - anti-fingerfiendly-party | 05:34 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: haha | 05:34 |
| Macer | maemo was best before it went all thumbs ;) | 05:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | arguably a point | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then there was D-pad | 05:36 |
| TiagoTiago | nailpoking still works quite well, and the N900 got a builtin stylus for when you need one | 05:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, that's not the UI-paradigma anymore | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | next device will be without D-pad, kbd, and stylus | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that's been it for me then | 05:38 |
| TiagoTiago | an analog nub would be great | 05:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | I want atrackpoint,yes. | 05:39 |
| TiagoTiago | hom, would touch tecnology work on non-flat surfaces? | 05:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Ihave lapto, andan external keyboard withtackpoint. Works for me. | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | optical mouse, upside down | 05:39 |
| SpeedEvil | I also need to vacuum my keyboard | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | c-ts yes. r-ts no | 05:40 |
| TiagoTiago | @little glass nub with pressure sensitive touch technology would fit well with the lack of moving parts while dtill providing an analog nub | 05:40 |
| TiagoTiago | a little* | 05:40 |
| TiagoTiago | that thing would probably scratch like hell though | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | though with oil separator technology they probably could even build spherical r-ts | 05:43 |
| TiagoTiago | whar does "r-ts" stands for? | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | but honestly - who'd want to get such crap? | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | resistive touchscreen | 05:44 |
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| TiagoTiago | aren't there multitouch resistives? | 05:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes there are | 05:45 |
| TiagoTiago | capcitive doesn't work well with gloves and nails, do they? | 05:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 05:45 |
| TiagoTiago | then why people insist capacitive is better? | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's allegedly smoother to operate, or somesuch | 05:47 |
| TiagoTiago | fruit induced missdirected hype? | 05:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 05:47 |
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| TiagoTiago | i see | 05:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | I love apple. | 05:47 |
| SpeedEvil | I have 4 trees. | 05:47 |
| luke-jr | personally, I'd be annoyed if I couldn't wipe my screen w/o triggering touches | 05:48 |
| * DocScrutinizer wipes away a tear shed for the forgotten bananas in my fridge | 05:48 | |
| TiagoTiago | don't bananas go black in the fridge? | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: ACK | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep they did | 05:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I typically keep them in the cupboard for around a month | 05:49 |
| SpeedEvil | well - 3 weeks | 05:49 |
| SpeedEvil | AS long as you don't bang them - they keep well | 05:50 |
| TiagoTiago | and once they go black, they don't come back | 05:50 |
| SpeedEvil | After about 3 weeks they stop getting sweeter though, and go overripe. | 05:50 |
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| * luke-jr notes black bananas aren't bad | 05:55 | |
| * DocScrutinizer notes jazz is not dead | 05:56 | |
| DocScrutinizer | it just smells funny | 05:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | Yeah. If they haven't been bruised, they are fine. | 06:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm shopping infrequently ATM. | 06:00 |
| SpeedEvil | And hence get about 8Kg of banannas at a time. | 06:01 |
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| luke-jr | wtf | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | did that big black ant I squished seriously just try to bite me? | 06:01 |
| TiagoTiago | going down fighting | 06:02 |
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| luke-jr | so I just tore apart my 802.11b CompactFlash card… | 06:05 |
| luke-jr | silly me thinking I could make it smaller :/ | 06:05 |
| kwtm | I see that DocScrutinizer, who set this channel topic, is connected with OpenMoko. Is OpenMoko connected with Maemo? Or is it a separate system? | 06:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | nothing in common (well except that linux tag maybe) | 06:09 |
| SpeedEvil | openmoko is completely unrelated. | 06:10 |
| kwtm | Ok that's what I thought. | 06:10 |
| Ken-Young | The channel has become a harbor for Openmoko refugees. | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 06:11 |
| kwtm | Do they have papers or are they illegal refugees, waiting to be deported back to OpenMokoLand? | 06:11 |
| Ken-Young | We'll be tortures by the agents of G.L.A.M.O. | 06:11 |
| ieatlint | dude, don't even say glamo | 06:12 |
| Ken-Young | s/tortures/tortured/ | 06:12 |
| infobot | Ken-Young meant: We'll be tortured by the agents of G.L.A.M.O. | 06:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | openmoko land has been split in two halves, and the one I were living at got nuked off the earth | 06:12 |
| ieatlint | openmoko was a test to see how much people could flake | 06:12 |
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| kwtm | Well, I'm glad Maemo has been around for a while, but I understand that now we're just waiting for the Next Best Thing (Meego) Which Hasn't Happened Yet. | 06:13 |
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| TermanaN900 | hey hey | 06:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | some are whaiting. But they won't have as much fun as those who just joy away with maemo | 06:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not waiting for the pudding while about to eat the fish | 06:15 |
| TiagoTiago | Why does the N900 makes the keypress sound when i switch to the VNC client window in Windows that is conencted to it? | 06:15 |
| kwtm | I hope that means Maemo will be around for a while. I just want something that I can move files onto, without needing special apps (iPhone) or special formats (PalmOS) just to read. I would have gotten the Palm Pre (which I think ran Linux?) but that phone doesn't even take a SIM card, so that got shot down... | 06:15 |
| TiagoTiago | actually it sounds like the screen tap sound not the keypress sound | 06:15 |
| Ken-Young | kwtm, I thought a GSM version of the Pre had been released in Europe. Am I wrong? | 06:16 |
| TiagoTiago | even if i switch to the window with alt-tab instead of clicking on it | 06:16 |
| * DocScrutinizer hands medal for master of questions to TiagoTiago | 06:16 | |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 06:16 |
| kwtm | Ken-Young: I didn't know that. I guess I could have gotten the Palm Pre, then, although I don't live in Europe. The way they tie phones to cell service providers here is ridiculous. | 06:17 |
| TiagoTiago | i hope i'm not being unpleasant with my curiosities o.o | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I got a highlight regex to color in red every post of TiagoTiago that does not end in a "?" | 06:17 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 06:17 |
| TiagoTiago | interesting | 06:17 |
| TiagoTiago | does this bypasses it? | 06:18 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, didn't paste right | 06:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: you even answer your own questions :-D great | 06:19 |
| TiagoTiago | heh | 06:19 |
| TiagoTiago | too bad it doesn't happen all the time :,/ | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | when it's the screentap sound then probably it's triggered by an X event | 06:20 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, typing too fast via VNC doesn't work all that well somtimes | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: you're better off with N900 | 06:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: and yes, maemo won't vanish this year, and probably not next as well | 06:21 |
| kwtm | DocScrutinizer: I agree. But do you remember how mine kept crashing with the infinite boot-up sequence ("Forever Dots") and then I returned it and bought a new one? And then that one kept crashing? | 06:21 |
| TiagoTiago | big desktop keyboard that i don't have to carry the weight does have it's benefits :) | 06:22 |
| kwtm | TiagoTiago might remember it too--you answered one of my questions on the talk.maemo.org forum. | 06:22 |
| kwtm | So... I returned the second N900 too, for a refund. Guess what? | 06:22 |
| kwtm | I bought a third one. | 06:23 |
| TiagoTiago | Same glitch? | 06:23 |
| ptmn_ | huy | 06:23 |
| kwtm | Now, if that's not dedication to the N900, I don't know what is. I haven't even been able to really USE my N900 yet... | 06:23 |
| TiagoTiago | poor thing | 06:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: there's some reports about users that got really bad luck and had two bummers in a row | 06:24 |
| TiagoTiago | perhaps it's all fromt he same botched batch | 06:24 |
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| TiagoTiago | all stocked in the service center | 06:24 |
| kwtm | I seem to be narrowing in on the problem. I have a theory that would explain all the salient points, including why I'm the only one with this error... | 06:24 |
| TiagoTiago | relative air humidity? | 06:24 |
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| kwtm | TiagoTiago: Good theory; that's why I made sure I bought mine over the Internet, whereas the first two were stocked at a local store. | 06:24 |
| TiagoTiago | i see | 06:25 |
| kwtm | I think it's a software problem, not hardware, since there are THREE different N900's with the same problem. | 06:25 |
| luke-jr | hmm | 06:25 |
| luke-jr | my C760 won't power on anymore, even with AC | 06:25 |
| kwtm | My best theory so far is that the N900 invokes the ash shell on bootup, and it runs "~/.profile". | 06:25 |
| luke-jr | kwtm: uh, duh? | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | sensible approach | 06:26 |
| kwtm | I'm trying to remember if "~/.profile" is run on every invocation or only on interactive shell... | 06:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, probably is somewhere on line 4956 of man ash | 06:27 |
| kwtm | "~/.profile" does not exist by default, but I created one. It contains one line. If that file is causing the error, it might explain why no one else has encountered it. | 06:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | also it's messybox err busybox, which doesn't exactly help | 06:28 |
| kwtm | It's because I am SOOooo 1337 that I am capable of crashing the N900!!! Yeah, that's it!! I'm so 1337 that I can even crash it without me knowing why! | 06:28 |
| TiagoTiago | it's instinctive :P | 06:29 |
| TermanaN900 | if you were that 1337 youd know why your crashing it | 06:29 |
| TermanaN900 | :P | 06:29 |
| kwtm | Okay, maybe I'm not so 1337. Maybe I'm just 1336. | 06:29 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 06:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway messing with system boot shouldn't hinder a clean reinstall of rootfs that should fix al kinds of bugs of that class | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | no need to swap device | 06:31 |
| kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Yeah... problem is, if I can fiddle with it and cause it to nearly-brick requiring a reflash, then the phone is unusable until I get back to a place where I have access to my laptop. | 06:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 06:31 |
| kwtm | So, I'm really REALLY hoping I can prove that it's my ~/.profile, which would let me use and rely on the N900... | 06:31 |
| TiagoTiago | someone should a release a reflashing device powered by a few AA batteries you just pull it out of your pocket, stick it in and let it do it's thing | 06:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | guess what we'll call that thing | 06:32 |
| kwtm | Well, in my opinion, it should have been built-in to the N900 (or at least reflash it to a recovery mode where you can do nothing but make phone calls --at least then I'd have a phone to use | 06:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900 with hostmode :-P | 06:32 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 06:32 |
| TermanaN900 | luke-jr, how did you get gprs working in Gentoo? | 06:32 |
| luke-jr | TermanaN900: ofono | 06:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: seems such recovery mode is already available | 06:33 |
| TiagoTiago | some sort of phone + console basic firmware for on device debricking would be quite the thing | 06:33 |
| luke-jr | kwtm: I'm so 1337 that I just cut myself (blood flowing fast!) ripping metal apart | 06:33 |
| kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Oh? Do tell! I actually don't mind a crashing phone but I do mind if I can't reboot it while on one of my transpacific flights. | 06:34 |
| TermanaN900 | luke-jr, hmm did you pull the latest git head? version .25 doesnt seem to play nice with the modem | 06:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's called boot menu | 06:34 |
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| kwtm | luke-jr: Sorry, we finished with that hoke 5 minutes ago. | 06:34 |
| luke-jr | TermanaN900: plus a patch sent to the ofono ML today | 06:34 |
| kwtm | luke-jr: s/hoke/joke/ | 06:35 |
| TermanaN900 | link? | 06:35 |
| luke-jr | http://lists.ofono.org/pipermail/ofono/2010-August/003736.html | 06:35 |
| TermanaN900 | thanks | 06:35 |
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| TiagoTiago | interesting, with VNC right and middle clicking work just fine in Iceweasel | 06:36 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: of course? | 06:38 |
| TiagoTiago | they could have removed the assignments for those buttons isince the device doesn't have them | 06:39 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, i can also send F-keys, nice | 06:39 |
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| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: my N900 has a rightclick | 06:40 |
| TiagoTiago | it does/ | 06:41 |
| TiagoTiago | ? | 06:41 |
| TiagoTiago | is it acessible with the hardware keys/buttons in the device? | 06:42 |
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| luke-jr | yes | 06:42 |
| luke-jr | tap and hold | 06:42 |
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| luke-jr | yay | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | once again I work a miracle | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | my CompactWLAN card wasn't working anymore | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | so I tore it apart and scotch-taped it back together | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | now my C760 can get online again | 06:43 |
| TiagoTiago | oooh, i wasn't aware that was actually mapped to a different input instead of just being a functionality with the main button, thanx for the info :D | 06:45 |
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| luke-jr | sad fact: I haven't touched the software on my C760 in like 3 or 4 years, and it's running 2.6.23, newer than N810's latest working 2.6.21… | 06:45 |
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| luke-jr | built 2.6.23 for C760 Nov 4 2007 | 06:46 |
| TiagoTiago | is there a middle click trick somewhere too?V | 06:47 |
| luke-jr | sure | 06:47 |
| luke-jr | just do a left click at the same time as a right click | 06:47 |
| TiagoTiago | What is it/ | 06:47 |
| TiagoTiago | ? | 06:48 |
| TiagoTiago | but there are no two buttons, it's the same one for left and right click..... | 06:48 |
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| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: nevertheless, that is how to do it | 06:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-P hehehe | 06:57 |
| TiagoTiago | that's like how the headless mule breathes fire out of her nostrils? | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 06:58 |
| luke-jr | :D | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: btw it's completely useless to try and fool my statistics with things like \/ | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 06:59 |
| TiagoTiago | when i type too fast via VNC the shift key and the /? key seem to have the start and end loose synchrony | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | will get accounted as even two question posts :-D | 07:00 |
| TiagoTiago | i was meaning for it to come out a ? but it didn't for some reason | 07:00 |
| TiagoTiago | i wasn't trying to bypass your filter at all | 07:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 07:01 |
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| * DocScrutinizer wonders if you couldn't assign shift-rightclick to MMB | 07:03 | |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: maybe with XInput 2 | 07:04 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, interesting, even though the ? and the / are different keys on the N900 hardware, via VNC they are the same like on the desktop keyboard, responding the same way to shift being held | 07:04 |
| TiagoTiago | lol, where did the : come from? | 07:04 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: … you don't know what abstraction means, do you? | 07:04 |
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| TiagoTiago | i'm trying to understand who is deciding whether to type a / or a ? | 07:05 |
| TiagoTiago | ?/?/???/::???V?/:?/:??//////:?V??/ | 07:05 |
| TiagoTiago | that was just tapping on the key and on shift without trying to have any synch in the tappings | 07:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | hope it's your brain. If not then there's something odd going on | 07:06 |
| TiagoTiago | where the fuck does the : come from? | 07:06 |
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| TiagoTiago | modifier+right click = middle click sounds like a great idea | 07:10 |
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| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: well, Shift-period is ':' | 07:12 |
| luke-jr | Fn-period is '?' | 07:12 |
| luke-jr | at least on my N900 | 07:12 |
| TiagoTiago | so it is mixing the desktop keyboard with the N900 keyboard? | 07:13 |
| TiagoTiago | what is making it Fn instead of shift?V | 07:13 |
| luke-jr | ⁇? | 07:13 |
| TiagoTiago | i wonder where those V are comming from | 07:13 |
| TiagoTiago | cool, different question marks | 07:13 |
| luke-jr | 'V' is '/' minus Fn plus Shift | 07:13 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, interesting | 07:14 |
| TiagoTiago | tapping on shift fast somtimes produces Fn somehow | 07:14 |
| luke-jr | Fn is above Shift | 07:15 |
| TiagoTiago | but i'm taping on my desktop keyboard | 07:17 |
| luke-jr | o | 07:17 |
| luke-jr | how do you figure btw? | 07:18 |
| TiagoTiago | what?V | 07:18 |
| luke-jr | only '?' and '/' require Fn | 07:18 |
| luke-jr | and presumably you're hitting those keys | 07:18 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, the Fn is lagging | 07:18 |
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| TiagoTiago | so intead of typing the characters themselves, it is pressing the hardware keyboard combination required to produce the character | 07:22 |
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| luke-jr | VNC tends to do stupid things :/ | 07:23 |
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| TiagoTiago | is there some way to tunnel thru the mobile operator GPRS/3G/whatever connections without triggering chargers in a per byte plan/ | 07:26 |
| TiagoTiago | ? | 07:26 |
| TiagoTiago | charges | 07:27 |
| TiagoTiago | * | 07:27 |
| Macer | hm | 07:28 |
| TiagoTiago | i went to the store today to investigate getting a data plan, it's ultrajeous how much they charge and the stuff they make to make you pay even more just to have the connection avaible | 07:30 |
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| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: sounds liek you live in the USA | 07:31 |
| TiagoTiago | nope, Brazil | 07:31 |
| TiagoTiago | people are worried about the scandal that will happen when the olypics and world cup come here and all the gringos gend up having to sell their moms to pay their mobile bills | 07:32 |
| TiagoTiago | olympics | 07:33 |
| TiagoTiago | *I | 07:33 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: you could try tunnelling over DNS without data service | 07:36 |
| luke-jr | but over here that just got my domain blocked | 07:36 |
| Ken-Young | T-Mobile USA charges $15/MByte in Europe, with no upper limit! | 07:36 |
| luke-jr | Ken-Young: that's an utter ripoff | 07:36 |
| luke-jr | $68/GB | 07:36 |
| Ken-Young | luke-jr, Yup, absolutely incredible. | 07:36 |
| Ken-Young | $15,000/GB | 07:37 |
| TiagoTiago | how can i set it up on the N900? | 07:37 |
| TiagoTiago | also, can i set it up so only the program i choose will use that connection so if they do charge it i can have more control? | 07:37 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: no point, as it uses bandwidth even if idle | 07:40 |
| luke-jr | it would use probably at least 2x as much when in use, too | 07:41 |
| TiagoTiago | the tunnel?V | 07:41 |
| TiagoTiago | I mean, the tunnel will keep using sending and receiving data even while iddle? | 07:42 |
| luke-jr | yes | 07:42 |
| TiagoTiago | no more conservative tunneling method? | 07:42 |
| TiagoTiago | there is no* | 07:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nope | 07:51 |
| TiagoTiago | balls | 07:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ken-Young: get a PAYG card, they offer quite reasonable dataplans as an option | 07:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | such like 10..20EUR / month for a limit of 5GB | 07:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | or 2GB | 07:54 |
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| Shaan7 | I had the power kernel installed, tried to upgrade to the new version today. There were some dependency issues and the device has fallen into a reboot loop. Any other way or I have to reflash? | 07:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ken-Young: make sure to activate the dataplan option *prior* to configuring your GPRS APN - some of the carriers allow access via same APN without dataplan, but then charge is similar to what you mentioned :-D | 07:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | reflash kernel | 07:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | if that doesn't help, reflash whole COMBINED fiasco image | 07:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you *could* try R&D mode, but I doubt that will lead anywhere, as even without bootloop - what you gonna do? | 07:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway whatever you do, make sure you don't deplete your battery to a point where flashing becomes impossible. Bootlooping devices don't charge | 08:01 |
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| TiagoTiago | hm, the chick in the mobile company store told me it's not possible to have the same number in more than one chip, but what about cloning? | 08:04 |
| TiagoTiago | with physical acess tot he chip and being the mobile company, shouldn't it be easy to clone a simcard? | 08:05 |
| Macer | heh | 08:05 |
| Macer | for them yes | 08:05 |
| Macer | realistically they can do it no problem | 08:05 |
| Macer | but it is company policy that they don't | 08:05 |
| Macer | for whatever reason | 08:05 |
| TiagoTiago | why would they not want to do it?V | 08:05 |
| Macer | i tried the same thing .. i actually called up tmob to get it cloned :) | 08:05 |
| Macer | who knows. | 08:05 |
| Macer | so people would be forced to get a 2nd number? :) | 08:05 |
| TiagoTiago | hm | 08:06 |
| Macer | i looked for ways to do it but never found a real solution | 08:06 |
| TiagoTiago | it wouldn't harm the network would it? | 08:06 |
| Macer | well. i think if both sims are detected at the same time | 08:06 |
| Macer | your acct gets disabled | 08:06 |
| TiagoTiago | oh | 08:06 |
| TiagoTiago | that would be bad | 08:06 |
| Macer | yeah :) | 08:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's dual card and there's twin card | 08:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | both perfectly normal offers of several carriers | 08:07 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: not from tmob ;) | 08:07 |
| Macer | i bet any chinese corner store can do it | 08:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 08:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Macer: http://www.t-mobile.de/business/multisim/0,12486,17258-_,00.html | 08:10 |
| TiagoTiago | is there any phreaking tools avaible for the N900 that are not just CLI? | 08:11 |
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| Macer | business multisim? :) | 08:11 |
| Macer | that probably requires some outrageous overpriced business lease | 08:12 |
| cehteh | haha GUI and phreaking .. c'mon | 08:12 |
| Macer | plus it's .de ;) | 08:12 |
| Macer | http://www.teefury.com/archive/913/Double_OMG/ | 08:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: please stop stating negatives as if you knew everything, while you in fact got no clue | 08:13 |
| Macer | hahahah!! | 08:13 |
| TiagoTiago | well, they did have a dialpad isntead of just poking wires together in the old days | 08:13 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: i'm just saying that for some reason or another it might be relative to europe | 08:13 |
| Macer | all i know is when i called tmobile they said they don't do it | 08:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: I think a called you on "please stop trolling" just yesterday | 08:14 |
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| Macer | and that is what i specifically asked for | 08:14 |
| kwtm | This sounds like an interesting conversation, but how do I stop being away? | 08:14 |
| Macer | uhm. i'm not. why is it when people disagree with you it is automatically trolling? i called tmobile and they said they wouldn't do it. maybe they do it in europe for whatever reason but unfortunately that is not the case as far as i know | 08:14 |
| kwtm | Ok. Now, let's see what you said in the past 5 miniutes... | 08:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: It's not about disagreeing with any*body* - it's about disagreeing with the *facts* | 08:15 |
| Macer | now if you are able to show me a t-mobile site that says it is available in the US then by all means i'm open ears.. but considering i can't read .de the page you posted is irrelevant | 08:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: and learn to use google, they got a really somewhat working translation service | 08:16 |
| Macer | why? i don't live in .de | 08:16 |
| TiagoTiago | yahoo somtimes does a better job, somtimes worse, but machine translation always sucks | 08:17 |
| Macer | but i have been using google to see if they have the same service in the US and so far no luck | 08:17 |
| kwtm | Macer: Are you specifically referring to Tmobile in a certain country, like the USA, then? | 08:17 |
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| Macer | kwtm: yes ;) | 08:17 |
| kwtm | Thx Macer. I ask because I am also using Tmobile USA. | 08:17 |
| RST38h | Isn't the USA the only place that matters? | 08:18 |
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| * RST38h finds a tree and climbs it, just in case. | 08:18 | |
| TiagoTiago | depends on the point of view | 08:18 |
| kwtm | RST38h: I just explained why I asked about Tmobile USA specifically. | 08:18 |
| kwtm | So Tmobile USA said don't put the same number in more than one SIM? | 08:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I don't live in your country, and yet I got t-mo here and they offer twin err multisim. So your statement t-mo doesn't is false. And I don't like to discuss this topic further with you, you've been warned 3 times now to stop that negativism | 08:18 |
| kwtm | I've been thinking about doing that, actually, so thanks for the info. | 08:18 |
| Macer | kwtm: yeah. i noticed that. which is why i told you what i have discovered in my attempt to do so | 08:18 |
| RST38h | kwtm: AFAIK, if you insist, they will | 08:18 |
| RST38h | kwtm: And if they do not, you can always "lose" your current SIM. | 08:19 |
| Macer | RST38h: when i called it was like i was asking for a murder contract ;) | 08:19 |
| cehteh | considering the bad reputation the german telekom and tmobile has here in germany, i am only wondering how worse all the other US phone companies must be | 08:19 |
| TiagoTiago | won't they block the old sim when they give you a new one? | 08:19 |
| kwtm | RST38h: Oh, you found that Tmobile USA was able to put the same number on two different SIMs, then? | 08:19 |
| RST38h | Macer: Isn't that always like this nowadays, when you call customer service in the US? | 08:19 |
| Macer | yeah | 08:19 |
| kwtm | Because I did exactly that, and as TiagoTiago noted, they block the old SIM. | 08:19 |
| Macer | fair point ;) | 08:20 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: chill down, I don't see any difference in Macer's behaviour than what he has always done, even before you had ops in here. he's always been a bit of a joker/sarcastic git. | 08:20 |
| RST38h | kwtm: There is no technical problem with issuing two sims for the same account | 08:20 |
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| Macer | Stskeeps: :) i just hate .de | 08:20 |
| * Macer hides | 08:20 | |
| TiagoTiago | also, don't report it as stolen, they might add the IMEI of the device using it tot he international blacklist | 08:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: yes, but it's just been too much the last few days | 08:20 |
| RST38h | kwtm: And the billing will be ok | 08:20 |
| kwtm | RST38h: I can neither agree nor disagree with you since I have no technical basis for going either way. I just wanted to see what Tmobile would do with a new SIM that has is set to the same number as the old SIM. | 08:20 |
| kwtm | So I think we're talking about two different things here. | 08:21 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: might be stress related | 08:21 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: on a sidenote, when did you sleep last? thought i saw you at midday yesterday :P | 08:21 |
| RST38h | kwtm: So, my guess is that the problem is with US TMobile being assholes, very typical for phone companies and US companies in general | 08:21 |
| Macer | RST38h: sure is | 08:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: the general mood is going down every day in this chan, and it's those statements that catalyse it | 08:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 08:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I never sleep | 08:22 |
| Macer | sleep is a crutch ;) | 08:22 |
| RST38h | kwtm: Russian MTS or Beeline will also issue you a second SIM card, in case you want to use it in a GPRS modem or something | 08:22 |
| kwtm | RST38h: While that may or may not be true, it doesn't seem relevant to Macer's info, which is that Tmobile USA seems to have a policy of not doing it (not letting the old SIM retain the phone number when setting assigning a number to the new SIM). | 08:22 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i would point out other factors than that stuff (like people generally being abusive to eachother, including ops towards normal members) | 08:22 |
| RST38h | kwtm: So, absolutely no technical problem there | 08:22 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: as well as a general community decline | 08:22 |
| kwtm | RST38h: Well, that will be useful to know if I am using Russian MTS or Beeline. | 08:22 |
| Macer | RST38h: have you ever tried the chinese method of sim cloning? | 08:22 |
| Macer | with the cloning kits? | 08:23 |
| Stskeeps | and get some sleep, no sleep causes paranoia :P | 08:23 |
| RST38h | Macer: Naah, no need to | 08:23 |
| TiagoTiago | is there a way i can fake the IMEI of my N900 to see if my operator respects the international blacklist without risking having the true IMEI added tot he blacklist or any other permanent harm? | 08:23 |
| Macer | oh :/ | 08:23 |
| RST38h | But it probably won't work on every sim | 08:23 |
| * Stskeeps goes get coffee | 08:23 | |
| Macer | USA... money before freedom | 08:23 |
| Macer | heh | 08:23 |
| RST38h | kwtm: There is an alternative method that should work with US TMobile | 08:23 |
| RST38h | Macer: Not money, PROFIT | 08:23 |
| Macer | RST38h: i don't think it does. i know there are quite a few that it doesn't work with | 08:23 |
| Macer | RST38h: hahaha... fair point again ;) | 08:23 |
| RST38h | Macer: And even that nowadays appears to be supplanted by ISSUES | 08:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: I'm far from paranoia :-D | 08:24 |
| kwtm | RST38h: I'm sure there are ways to do it. But it's still useful information to me that Macer has asked Tmobile USA and Tmobile USA says don't do it. | 08:24 |
| Macer | RST38h: well. i'm sure t-mobile usa threw the patriot act in there somewhere | 08:24 |
| RST38h | kwtm: Get a family plan. They will issue you multiple SIMs, all connected to the same account | 08:24 |
| RST38h | kwtm: The SIMs will have separate phone numbers, but I hope it is ok | 08:24 |
| Macer | saying terrorists are plotting a hostile action through the use of cloned sims to hide their whereabouts | 08:24 |
| Macer | kwtm: there's always skype to maintain the same number | 08:25 |
| kwtm | RST38h: Very interesting suggestion. Out of curiosity, are you using Tmobile USA? (Are you in the USA? That should have been my first question, sorry, so two questions for you.) | 08:25 |
| TiagoTiago | terrorists are textign each other with their blackberries, didn't you hear? | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: RST38h: cloning sims with clonekit works with oooold cards only for all I know | 08:25 |
| RST38h | Macer: http://fredoneverything.net/TSAAgain.shtml | 08:25 |
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| Macer | HAHAHAH | 08:25 |
| RST38h | kwtm: I am not in the USA right now, but I go there often enough | 08:25 |
| Macer | "...as none have been encountered before." | 08:26 |
| Macer | TSA guards are horrible | 08:26 |
| RST38h | Macer: [spoiler: anal probes at the end] | 08:26 |
| Macer | i think it is simply terrorist ignorance that prevents new attacks | 08:26 |
| Macer | because terrorsts believe the disgusting fat sloth of a tsa unarmed security guard counts as actual security | 08:26 |
| TiagoTiago | blackberries are a threat to national security | 08:26 |
| kwtm | RST38h: I ask because I have a family plan, exactly as you suggest. Were you able to get a family plan from Tmobile USA, or do you just use Tmobile USA for roaming and use whatever plan it is in your home country? | 08:27 |
| Macer | when it's really just some overweight person who had a friend that got them a job from being a midnight security guard at a strip mall in the ghetto | 08:27 |
| Macer | sooner or later there's going to be some sick that busts out an n900 and starts shooting people with the death ray and the tsa guys are going to be the first to go with their iron on badges simply because they look like they hold a position of authority | 08:28 |
| RST38h | kwtm: Using a tmobile account when in the US | 08:28 |
| Macer | sick/sicko | 08:28 |
| TiagoTiago | boost the fmtx power and fry everyone's nuts | 08:28 |
| RST38h | Macer: But only after Nokia enabled the deathray with PR1.3 | 08:28 |
| Macer | well with the advent of meego.....? | 08:28 |
| Macer | looks like no death ray for me :( | 08:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw, FWIW multisim works by individual SIM cards with their own unique IMSI, and it's just the "DNS" in carrier's network that routes same number to all three | 08:29 |
| * RST38h doubts IMSI can be overwritten at all: that would be a security nightmare | 08:29 | |
| DocScrutinizer | if you use SIM with same IMSI then always the one that registered last is used, the others are 'disconnected' | 08:29 |
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| spinningcompass | I'm looking for someone who has successfully compiled PyPy w/ Maemo "Diablo". | 08:30 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: then phones need to be made with external sim ports ;) | 08:30 |
| RST38h | ok, time to go. | 08:30 |
| kwtm | RST38h: Okay. I will ask Tmobile whether I can have two SIM cards with the same number, and say that someone else was able to do it. Maybe that will enable me to do it. I do have two SIMs from Tmobile that had the same number at different times, but the old one was deactivated. | 08:30 |
| Macer | kwtm: i hated taking my sim out too | 08:30 |
| Macer | i wish i could have avoided it. it became too much of a hassle and i just use the n900 now and sold the g1 | 08:31 |
| Stskeeps | spinningcompass: funny fact, i actually did manage that like 2-3 years ago | 08:31 |
| Stskeeps | spinningcompass: when i started playing with n800 initially | 08:31 |
| spinningcompass | Stskeeps: Please tell me you kept a copy. (prays) :) | 08:31 |
| TiagoTiago | my mobile operator didn't fall for the "gimme cheap stuff or i'll go to the competitor" trick :( | 08:31 |
| kwtm | Macer: Funny you say that about external ports. With my Treo650 I was able to take out the SIM any time, but with the N900 I need to take out the battery first and then reboot. | 08:31 |
| Stskeeps | spinningcompass: no, i left that job :P | 08:31 |
| Macer | kwtm: that's most phones | 08:31 |
| Macer | i suppose because phone manufactureres don't want people just ripping out sims and losing them | 08:32 |
| Macer | i'm sure the majority of people don't even know what the sim is ;) | 08:32 |
| kwtm | Macer: Really? I guess Palm did have something going for it. But it's as if the software division of Palm said, "Hey, Palm hardware is pretty good. Let's compensate by making sucky software." | 08:32 |
| Macer | haha | 08:32 |
| Macer | they have webos nowadays don't they? :) | 08:33 |
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| Macer | i've never tried it but i heard it's not too bad.. .but trying to name a new os after a 1990s trend... :) | 08:33 |
| kwtm | Macer: Yeah, I decided not even to go there. It's like, finally, Palm 3.5 has a community large enough for critical mass, and then they said, "Let's make a new Palm OS 5 that is not compatible with anything, and then force the community to run Palm 3.5 programs through an emulator! I mean, what could go wrong? It's not like we have competition or anything!" | 08:34 |
| luke-jr | T-Mobile US only has PAYG data plans for their Hiptop devices, which basically requires spoofing IMSI or whatever | 08:34 |
| Stskeeps | spinningcompass: can i ask what exactly you need it for? | 08:34 |
| Macer | ah well. time to get some sleep. night. | 08:35 |
| kwtm | Macer: And then, later, "Uhh, customers, can you come back, please? We'll even make a Linux based OS! Although we'll tie it to a phone provider that doesn't even use SIM cards so you can't use your Palm Pre's overseas, but other than that it's a very good system that we're going to make Real Soon Now!" | 08:35 |
| spinningcompass | Stskeeps: I've written a program to run on Windows, Mac, Linux, and the Nokia N810 (which also runs Linux, after a fashion). I'm looking to speed up the program on the Nokia. | 08:35 |
| kwtm | Duhh... the reason I keep coming back to the N900 is because it runs Linux, so long after it becomes obsolete it's still useful to me. Hah! | 08:35 |
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| kwtm | That's why I still love my Sharp Zaurus 5600. :) | 08:36 |
| kwtm | Anyway, I'm going to go reflash my N900 for the nth time. I think I've finally figured out the problem with my infinite boot. | 08:37 |
| Stskeeps | spinningcompass: i still maintain you should look into building it on for example meego netbook and then it'd be portable to other handset instances.. | 08:38 |
| luke-jr | kwtm: I think you're dreaming | 08:38 |
| spinningcompass | Stskeeps: That's an interesting idea. | 08:39 |
| wazd | oooh, they've actually did it at alst :) http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/26/design-by-community-sketches-poll/ | 08:40 |
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| Stskeeps | spinningcompass: cos the toolchain in diablo is just way too bad for pypy | 08:42 |
| spinningcompass | Stskeeps: "Way too bad" --- meaning defective or excessively groovy? | 08:42 |
| Stskeeps | spinningcompass: defective in terms of building anything modern | 08:42 |
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| spinningcompass | The fact that there's a "howto" on codespeak.net that describes the step-by-step process of building PyPy for Maemo, tells me that PyPy *can* be built on Maemo. It doesn't mean it can be built on the Diablo edition, which might (by now) be too outdated to cope with PyPy (or anything else non-trivial). | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | spinningcompass: or used to be able to, or n900 .. | 08:46 |
| TiagoTiago | is the a a "panic button" i can click to shut down all network activity instantly,so ican test some stuff with mobile internet and if i notice? | 08:46 |
| spinningcompass | stskeeps: Indeed. Perhaps I should buy an N900, use Fremantle (which *can* build PyPy --- I tried, even though I don't have a PDA to run it on) and be happy :) | 08:46 |
| TiagoTiago | ah, nvm, offline mode :) | 08:46 |
| TiagoTiago | duh! :P | 08:46 |
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| TiagoTiago | have you ever heard of a trick to get free internet where you use the MMS conection instead of the regular one? | 08:53 |
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| TiagoTiago | it can't be this simple | 09:16 |
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| SpeedEvil1 | ? | 09:17 |
| TiagoTiago | trying somthing i read on the internet that suposedly woudl gimme free internet | 09:18 |
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| SpeedEvil1 | ah | 09:18 |
| TiagoTiago | i'mn confused now | 09:18 |
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| TiagoTiago | i tried pinging google and it worked, now it isn't working | 09:18 |
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| mece | TiagoTiago, I guess the MMS connection has a data cap, would be logical, since the mms' are limited size. | 09:20 |
| TiagoTiago | no, it's dead, not connecting anymore, not sure exactly what happened | 09:20 |
| mece | TiagoTiago, heh | 09:20 |
| TiagoTiago | I wonder if it matters that the signal went from 3G to 2.5 | 09:22 |
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| TiagoTiago | yep, now 3G is back it conected | 09:23 |
| TiagoTiago | so far no charge, but they somtimes take a few minutes to charge | 09:24 |
| TiagoTiago | crap, there goes my money | 09:24 |
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| TiagoTiago | lost a couple of dollars just for loading Google's homepage | 09:25 |
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| TiagoTiago | lol, i'm even getting 3.5 signal Xp | 09:25 |
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| TiagoTiago | lets see if i can setup DNS tunneling and if they will charge for it | 09:27 |
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| TiagoTiago | I wasn't aware we had 3.5g network over here | 09:31 |
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| spinningcompass | TiagoTiago: It's halfway between the Verizon store and the Spring store. :) | 09:36 |
| spinningcompass | er, Sprint. Never mind. I'll stop trying to be funny; brb | 09:36 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 09:36 |
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| jophish | lcuk, I wasn't hallucinating about the keys powering off the phone | 09:46 |
| jophish | If I press the g and h keys at the same time, the phone powers off | 09:47 |
| jophish | if I press any key and then the e key shortly after that, it powers off | 09:47 |
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| jophish | If I open and close the keyboard 2 times, it shuts down | 09:47 |
| jophish | It isn't a clean shutdown though. It's as if the power has just been cut. The screen goes out line by line, the same as powering off an old game boy | 09:48 |
| jophish | This happened a few weeks ago with another n900 | 09:49 |
| jophish | The usb port fell out of that one, and I was charging the battery using a regular lipo charger | 09:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Some people the n900 simply seems to hate. | 09:50 |
| jophish | That phone was replaced with this one, the only thing that is the same is the battery and sim card | 09:50 |
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| jophish | needless to say, this makes the phone very hard to use | 09:51 |
| jophish | SpeedEvil, no kidding | 09:51 |
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| jophish | I have reflashed the phone already, although I don't believe that this is software related, as I can power it off the very moment it boots | 09:52 |
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| jophish | in fact | 09:53 |
| jophish | With the G-H kill combination depressed, I can't even power it on at all | 09:53 |
| Tiagotiago | :( | 09:54 |
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| jophish | I can't find anything remotely similar with google | 09:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | I would have guessed at water damage from the symptoms | 09:58 |
| jophish | Exactly what I thought with the first one | 09:58 |
| jophish | but I figured that if I was replacing it from the faulty usb port, the problem would be solved | 09:58 |
| Tiagotiago | do you know of a tuotiral to set up a Windows machine as the target for DNS tunneling ? | 09:58 |
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| RST38h | Moo all | 10:18 |
| TermanaN900 | hello RST38h | 10:18 |
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| Tiagotiago | lol, there is still a few cents trickling away from my little test of conecting using the MMS server instead of the regular connection | 10:28 |
| kke | hmm are repositories down or what | 10:29 |
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| kke | W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle-1.2/non-free/binary-armel/Packages 404 Not Found [IP: 193.184.164.139 80] | 10:29 |
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| crashanddie | kke: what do you think? | 10:31 |
| kke | dunno, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/non-free/binary-armel/Packages works | 10:31 |
| ham5 | I think yippie | 10:32 |
| hatake_kakashi | kke, wrong IP address | 10:32 |
| jacekowski | morning | 10:32 |
| kke | app update messed up my sources.list | 10:32 |
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| hatake_kakashi | jacekowski, hi | 10:33 |
| hatake_kakashi | repository.maemo.org is an alias for repository.maemo.org.edgesuite.net. | repository.maemo.org.edgesuite.net is an alias for a515.g.akamai.net. | a515.g.akamai.net has address 202.7.187.32 | a515.g.akamai.net has address 202.7.187.41 | 10:34 |
| jacekowski | fremantle not fremantle-1.2 | 10:34 |
| kke | yep | 10:34 |
| kke | i installed the repos from repository.maemo.org using the browser | 10:35 |
| jacekowski | there is no fremantle-1.2 repo | 10:35 |
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| jacekowski | well, there used to be fremantle-1.2 for a while | 10:35 |
| kke | problem solved | 10:35 |
| jophish | I posted a summary and some more details here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60072 | 10:36 |
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| hatake_kakashi | jophish, yeah that's definitely a hardware fault somewhere inside the device, I tried similar actions on my n900 and it did not shutdown | 10:53 |
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| Tiagotiago | do you have lots of ants where you live ( or anywhere else you spend any amount of time with your N900 hanging out_ | 10:55 |
| Tiagotiago | ) | 10:55 |
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| ham5 | how can my processes grow from 175 at start up to over 200 in a couple days, what can I exec to restart my desktop without rebooting the whole phone? | 10:55 |
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| ham5 | ctrl + alt + backspace? | 10:56 |
| ham5 | runs x dont it? | 10:56 |
| Tiagotiago | not sudeo rebbot now, right? | 10:56 |
| Tiagotiago | er, damn typos | 10:56 |
| Tiagotiago | sudo reboot now* | 10:56 |
| ham5 | reboot does the whole device | 10:56 |
| Tiagotiago | i remember seeing somthing about killall int he forum a while ago, i don't remember details | 10:58 |
| Tiagotiago | i think it was for restart a bunch of daemons | 10:59 |
| Weiss | ham5: units? | 10:59 |
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| Weiss | ham5: assuming you mean Mb.. that doesn't sound unreasonable. watch out for the difference between virtual and resident sizes | 11:00 |
| ham5 | processes | 11:01 |
| ham5 | things running | 11:01 |
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| Tiagotiago | what do i need to run jar programs that run on Windows? | 11:06 |
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| Tiagotiago | shit, my credits keep trickling down :( | 11:08 |
| koala_man | Tiagotiago: icedtea6 perhaps | 11:08 |
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| Tiagotiago | ok | 11:10 |
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| TermanaN900 | luke-jr, ping | 11:13 |
| Tiagotiago | how can i make all programs see the file system as it is isntead of just the stuff inside N900? | 11:15 |
| Tiagotiago | NOkia N900* | 11:15 |
| chem|st | Tiagotiago: please be more specific | 11:16 |
| Tiagotiago | like, have the notes program be able to browse the/dev folder and open somthing from there | 11:16 |
| chem|st | good moaning | 11:16 |
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| chem|st | from a windows machine? | 11:17 |
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| Tiagotiago | some programs see the folders structure like what i get with FTP, while others can only see a small subset of folders | 11:17 |
| Tiagotiago | no, in the N900 itself | 11:17 |
| Tiagotiago | i want all programs to see the folders like how i see when i connect to the N900 via FTP | 11:17 |
| * Jucato thinks it's hardcoded into the file manager and file dialogs to only view ~/MyDocs | 11:18 | |
| chem|st | you mean for filebrowsing? | 11:18 |
| Tiagotiago | yeah | 11:18 |
| Tiagotiago | and text editors etc | 11:18 |
| chem|st | Jucato's | 11:18 |
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| chem|st | I think that pathes are hardcoded to mmc1 and MyDocs | 11:19 |
| Tiagotiago | any way to bypass that hardcoding and let them all see it as it is? | 11:19 |
| chem|st | or handed over by some stupid script like the guessing of partitions... | 11:19 |
| chem|st | bindmount / to MyDocs/root/ or something (be aware of the loop) | 11:20 |
| chem|st | or mybe just the stuff you realy need | 11:20 |
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| Tiagotiago | is the loop a bad thing or it will jsut be there? | 11:22 |
| Tiagotiago | i mean, will it mess up anything or it will just be kinda artifacty? | 11:22 |
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| kke | aptitude dies wit a segfault :( | 11:23 |
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| Tiagotiago | 'cause of the loop? | 11:25 |
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| alterego | "N900 wont boot after renaming /usr" omfg | 11:33 |
| alterego | does it ever end .. | 11:33 |
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| pupnik | :) | 11:35 |
| frals | alterego: :D | 11:35 |
| frals | alterego: link! | 11:35 |
| crashanddie | ~ping | 11:36 |
| infobot | ~pong | 11:36 |
| kerio | alterego: lol | 11:36 |
| kerio | Bug status: NOSHITSHERLOCK | 11:36 |
| lcuk | morning \o | 11:37 |
| frals | mornin lcuk o/ | 11:37 |
| * pupnik gets out the surgical tubing | 11:38 | |
| kerio | "i deleted my system32 directory and now windows won't start" | 11:38 |
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| alterego | frals: first page on tmo, I think I exagerrated a bit, that's the topic title, but what he wanted to do was mount a usr partition and remove it from rootfs | 11:42 |
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| alterego | Why I don't know ... | 11:42 |
| wazd | lcuk: o/ | 11:42 |
| kerio | alterego: lol it's that guy | 11:43 |
| kerio | he was here yesterday | 11:43 |
| alterego | Heh | 11:43 |
| kerio | asking how to move /usr out of root | 11:43 |
| alterego | Heh | 11:43 |
| alterego | Poor guy | 11:43 |
| MohammadAG51 | kerio, why move it when you can REmove it? :P | 11:44 |
| kerio | lol | 11:45 |
| kerio | yeah, who cares about all those stupid "programs" and stuff | 11:45 |
| alterego | Heh | 11:45 |
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| Tiagotiago | how hard would it be to make a daemont hat woudl watch the important parts of the system and pop a confirmation dialog whenever somthing that shouldn't be touched if you don't know what you're doing is being touched? | 11:53 |
| Stskeeps | Tiagotiago: willing to bet the DRM in harmattan will stop a lot of idiotic usage | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:54 |
| Tiagotiago | Clippy: It seems you're trying to brick your N900, would you like some assistance? | 11:54 |
| Tiagotiago | Xp | 11:54 |
| DuckBoot | DRM? ARGH - This is a family channel - No swearing allowed. | 11:55 |
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| koala_man | I always bring my family to this channel | 11:56 |
| Tiagotiago | unless it stands for Daydreaming Rhapsody Maestro , kill it with fire | 11:56 |
| koala_man | direct rendering manager | 11:56 |
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| lcuk | \o wazd, can you breathe now? | 12:03 |
| wazd | lcuk: well, we have a short break today :) | 12:03 |
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| lcuk | "the combined sigh of relief from moscow was enough to push the cloud 170 miles South" | 12:04 |
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| Tiagotiago | lol | 12:05 |
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| Tiagotiago | what is "Enter xosw ro ewmocw operator lock" ? I mean, what does it do? | 12:09 |
| Tiagotiago | erm, damn typos | 12:09 |
| Tiagotiago | Enter code to remove operator locks* | 12:09 |
| wazd | lcuk: :D | 12:09 |
| hatake_kakashi | if your phone/internet tablet has been locked by the provider | 12:10 |
| Tiagotiago | it can't know wether it is lock or not? | 12:10 |
| hatake_kakashi | ask your telephone service provider | 12:10 |
| hatake_kakashi | s/telephone/mobile/ | 12:10 |
| infobot | hatake_kakashi meant: ask your mobile service provider | 12:10 |
| Tiagotiago | locked* | 12:10 |
| hatake_kakashi | and probably not | 12:10 |
| Tiagotiago | i mean, why does it offer to unlock if it isn't locked? | 12:11 |
| hatake_kakashi | my n900 comes unlocked and I saw that feature | 12:11 |
| hatake_kakashi | probably to allow ease of access? *shrugs* | 12:11 |
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| Tiagotiago | if it was locked, then make it very easy to unlock, but if it isn't locked, then what the fuck are you talking about locks and shit? | 12:12 |
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| hatake_kakashi | it it was locked and was made easy to unlock, mobile phone vendors won't like to sell that handset. If it isn't locked and you're bitching like a little girl why not ask nokia? it comes standard on their official firmware | 12:13 |
| Tiagotiago | lol | 12:13 |
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| Tiagotiago | What's with airplane peanuts? | 12:14 |
| Tiagotiago | *tap tap* is this thing on? | 12:15 |
| TomaszD | boo | 12:15 |
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| Stskeeps | luke-jr: cool work on gprs/umts with ofono | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | moo TomaszD | 12:16 |
| TomaszD | moo | 12:17 |
| jacekowski | apt-get moo | 12:18 |
| jacekowski | (__) | 12:18 |
| jacekowski | (oo) | 12:18 |
| jacekowski | /------\/ | 12:18 |
| jacekowski | / | || | 12:18 |
| jacekowski | * /\---/\ | 12:18 |
| jacekowski | ~~ ~~ | 12:18 |
| jacekowski | ...."Have you mooed today?"... | 12:18 |
| Scelt_ | moo moo | 12:19 |
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| Tiagotiago | talking about moo, one last thing before i go, i got the Moobox prog, but it doesn't seem to work, how exactly am i supposed to use it? | 12:21 |
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| koala_man | how do you use the hardware jpeg compression unit on the n900? | 12:23 |
| Tiagotiago | oh well, cya | 12:24 |
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| lcuk | hmm koala_man if its used, I would expect it to be in libjpeg to be honest - but specifically which hardware jpeg compression hardware are you talking about | 12:24 |
| koala_man | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_CPU#Imaging that one | 12:24 |
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| lcuk | is that the only specific mention of the hardware? no chip names or anything we can grep sources with? | 12:25 |
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| alterego | It might just be talking about the dsp ... | 12:26 |
| koala_man | I just noticed it, and wondered what it was about | 12:26 |
| lcuk | indeed, but its ambiguous | 12:26 |
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| alterego | Presumably stolen from the TI docs. | 12:27 |
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| lcuk | I mean, even the n810 had the IVA | 12:28 |
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| lcuk | alterego, be clear with your wording please, its not stolen from by any means | 12:28 |
| jacekowski | yeah, n900 has IVA as well | 12:29 |
| alterego | Riped then :P | 12:29 |
| jacekowski | copypasted | 12:29 |
| alterego | ~ripped | 12:29 |
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| koala_man | how can you use it to encode jpeg then? which libs do that? | 12:31 |
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| alterego | koala_man: we don't know what "it" is. | 12:32 |
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| koala_man | IVA 2+ on the OMAP 3430 | 12:33 |
| koala_man | or maybe it's the ISP, according to http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=14649&navigationId=12643&templateId=6123 | 12:34 |
| jacekowski | you need drivers | 12:34 |
| lcuk | ok, since we seem to have identified this, can it be checked to see if its actually used and marked as such in the wiki page mentioned | 12:34 |
| jacekowski | there are no drivers | 12:34 |
| jacekowski | you have to make ones | 12:34 |
| lcuk | (even marking that its the IVA would be helpful) | 12:35 |
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| Tiagotiago | ok, now for real, last thing and i'll go to bed | 12:36 |
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| Tiagotiago | is ther ea way i can change from offline mode to phone mode at a predeternined time without coding stuff myself? | 12:37 |
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| cehteh | Tiagotiago: there are some tools there for that .. DWIMD ... :) | 12:37 |
| Tiagotiago | link pls? | 12:38 |
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| iksaif_ | Hi, I got a strange issue with Qt, sometimes the top-right close (or go back) button just don't work. Anybody had the same issue ? | 12:39 |
| iksaif_ | It usually happends in the third or fourth level window (stacked windows) | 12:40 |
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| * kwtm is happy! Fixed infinite boot problem :P Finally can start really digging into using N900. | 12:47 | |
| * kwtm is off to enjoy N900 | 12:47 | |
| lcuk | have fun \o | 12:47 |
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| alterego | That's annoying, can't watch youtube now, was working fine yesterday. | 13:02 |
| kerio | kwtm: how? | 13:03 |
| kerio | new battery + flasher? | 13:04 |
| kwtm | kerio: It was not a hardware problem. I bought 3 different N900's and they all had the same problem, so I had to conclude it was software. | 13:05 |
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| kerio | what problem? | 13:05 |
| kwtm | However, I did have to use the flasher to escape from the infinite boot. | 13:06 |
| kerio | it wasn't software then | 13:06 |
| kerio | if you reflashed and it worked... | 13:06 |
| kwtm | Problem was: I would boot up, it would show flashing dots and this would last forever (I let it run for hours and it never completed boot-up) | 13:06 |
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| kwtm | kerio: No, I reflashed the eMMC to its original "blank" state (well, it comes with some files by default). After I used the N900, it would again hang on bootup. So reflashing allowed me to use the device (otherwise I couldn't even make phone calls or get to the desktop screen) but did not solve the problem. | 13:07 |
| kerio | you don't reflash just the emmc | 13:07 |
| kwtm | I am in the process of characterizing under exactly what circumstances this occurs and when it doesn't. | 13:07 |
| kerio | you always reflash the combined, or combined+emmc | 13:07 |
| kwtm | When I reflash, I reflash firmware+eMMC, which makes the device usable like new (but erasing all my data). | 13:08 |
| kwtm | Reflashing the firmware itself is not enough. | 13:08 |
| kerio | yeah, you have to do that | 13:08 |
| kerio | or just the rootfs | 13:08 |
| kwtm | Anyway, it turns out to be a one-line text file that I had created, which was not present by default. | 13:09 |
| kerio | what file? | 13:09 |
| kwtm | But when this text file exists, it affects this program (which is present by default) which I guess is invoked during the boot-up process, which causes that program to go into some infinite loop. | 13:09 |
| kwtm | I'm trying to get complete details before I file it as a bug. It's the | 13:10 |
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| kerio | ... | 13:11 |
| kerio | oh god the file killed him | 13:11 |
| kerio | we'll never know its true identity... | 13:11 |
| iksaif_ | hum .. Qt stacked window does not work when if QDialog::exec() is used :/ | 13:11 |
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| hatake_kakashi | we should labelled that bug as "THE bug" | 13:12 |
| hatake_kakashi | s/labelled/label/ | 13:12 |
| infobot | hatake_kakashi meant: we should label that bug as "THE bug" | 13:12 |
| iksaif_ | well .. it works for the first level of QDialog | 13:12 |
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| mece | kerio, LOL | 13:20 |
| harkumon | what is news | 13:21 |
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| mece | harkumon, it's the communication of information about recent and important events | 13:23 |
| mece | harkumon, generally speaking. | 13:23 |
| kerio | hehe | 13:24 |
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| harkumon | uutisointi for maemo? | 13:26 |
| mece | harkumon, there's an app called news? | 13:27 |
| harkumon | t seems nokia needs smaller, faster improvements | 13:28 |
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| harkumon | n900 with lower power screen, better speakers, bigger battery | 13:28 |
| harkumon | they are like mercedes making a new model after 10 years | 13:29 |
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| mece | wjat's going on? | 13:57 |
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| mece | s/wj/wh/ | 13:57 |
| infobot | mece meant: what's going on? | 13:57 |
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| BCMM | mece: looked like a netsplit | 14:04 |
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| mece | BCMM, mm | 14:06 |
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| pupnik | Ford_Prefect: any hope to improve performance in pulseaudio when buffer underrun occurs? | 14:13 |
| Ford_Prefect | pupnik: could you provide more details about the problem you're facing? | 14:14 |
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| pupnik | i am facing 30 to 34 percent cpu usage by pulseaudio | 14:16 |
| Ford_Prefect | Any resampling involved? | 14:17 |
| pupnik | being deiven by openalsoft. bitrate and number of channels. same result apparently | 14:17 |
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| pupnik | looking at the userside, i do like pulse. but it appears to reinitialize the whole thing when xrun happens | 14:18 |
| pupnik | can i help nag the right people to hire more people? :) | 14:19 |
| lcuk | pupnik, do you have any, or can you create a testcase scenario for this issue to be reproduced with clear effects? | 14:19 |
| Ford_Prefect | ++ - That would be most useful | 14:19 |
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| lcuk | which Ford_Prefect - the nagging or the testcase :P or both | 14:19 |
| Ford_Prefect | :)) testcase first, please | 14:20 |
| pupnik | ok well it is from installing gemrb and a baldurs gate program | 14:20 |
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| pupnik | fro t.m.o and my gemrb 'development' thread | 14:21 |
| pupnik | it is a really good example of everything 'going wrong' imo | 14:21 |
| lcuk | pupnik, ok, you want help, help - make a bug and put specific things in it - its going to be easier | 14:21 |
| lcuk | no1 will dig in threads and you know it | 14:21 |
| pupnik | hmm i just remembered a dream of a huge spider | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 14:23 |
| lcuk | well walk along the web and drop some big things there | 14:23 |
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| pupnik | that particular app isnt the issue, now, is it | 14:25 |
| Ford_Prefect | I've seen these kinds of spikes during calls | 14:26 |
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| Ford_Prefect | And I assume that's the resampler + the fact that you need very low latencies | 14:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Ford_Prefect: why would you need very low latencies? | 14:27 |
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| pupnik | well some games do, particularly emulators | 14:29 |
| Ford_Prefect | DocScrutinizer: I don't recall, tbh | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean where's the technical rationale to get latency <5ms on Application Processor side when the transmission alone via gsm adds at very least 40ms | 14:30 |
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| pupnik | it just seems to bump another 10 pct cpu use when the source cant keep up | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds rather oddly spec'ed to me, from a requirements POV | 14:30 |
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| Ford_Prefect | I've got gst-launch on an MP3 file giving me ~25-30% CPU | 14:32 |
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| Ford_Prefect | Though that stream requires resampling | 14:32 |
| pupnik | this is not easy stuff lcuk | 14:32 |
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| lcuk | nope pupnik its not, but showing specific issues would help to diagnose and potentially do something about it | 14:33 |
| pupnik | i am the guy who attached a trailer to the automobile and can't get up the hill. i dont know what is sapping the horsepower | 14:33 |
| pupnik | maybe the trailer is just too big and i should buy a different car | 14:34 |
| pupnik | righ | 14:34 |
| pupnik | t | 14:34 |
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| Ford_Prefect | BTW, when I get rid of the resampling, the cpu usage goes down from ~28% to ~13% | 14:36 |
| Ford_Prefect | (this is a simple gst-launch on the command line) | 14:37 |
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| saltsa_ | if i write python location application, am i force to use gobject? | 14:41 |
| mece | saltsa_, no. | 14:43 |
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| jacekowski | pablo2: use lower gear | 14:45 |
| jacekowski | ehhh | 14:45 |
| saltsa_ | mece, well, is there any example how to do it without gobjects/on_changed events? | 14:45 |
| mece | saltsa_, well you could use qt | 14:45 |
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| saltsa_ | mece, oh, I think I just figured it out :) | 14:47 |
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| mece | saltsa_, ok :) | 14:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Ford_Prefect: could we track down the cpu usage to a particular mixing or resampling process in PA? | 14:51 |
| Ford_Prefect | It's done in the daemon | 14:52 |
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| * DocScrutinizer *nod* | 14:52 | |
| Ford_Prefect | I tracked it down like this: | 14:52 |
| Ford_Prefect | gst-launch uridecodebin uri=... ! pulsesink | 14:53 |
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| Ford_Prefect | (that's with resampling) | 14:53 |
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| Ford_Prefect | gst-launch uridecodebin uri=... ! audioresample ! audio/x-raw-int,rate=48000 ! pulsesink | 14:53 |
| Ford_Prefect | That pushes the resampling into the gst thread | 14:53 |
| * realitygaps still trying to figure out how to fix the scrollbar http://realitygaps.com/screenfix.jpg | 14:53 | |
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| Ford_Prefect | biab | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | and using plughw or even dmix would push it further into ALSA domain | 14:54 |
| kerio | wtf is ! | 14:54 |
| Ford_Prefect | It's gst-launch's "pipe operator" | 14:55 |
| kerio | realitygaps: what's that "4" in the status bar? | 14:55 |
| kerio | and capitalism *is* nonsense | 14:55 |
| kerio | other alternatives do exist | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: uhuh | 14:55 |
| realitygaps | kerio: the 4 is the wifi signal strength applet | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | apt-get install anarchy | 14:56 |
| realitygaps | anarchism | 14:56 |
| realitygaps | i think :) | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe | 14:56 |
| kerio | that's not something you install by itself | 14:56 |
| kerio | it comes as a dependancy on proletariat-dictatorship-installer, eventually | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh it got dependencies? :-D | 14:56 |
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| realitygaps | i think perhaps you need an apt-get remove --purge money first | 14:57 |
| kerio | realitygaps: that causes massive instability by iself | 14:57 |
| kerio | *itself | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | apt-cache list proletariat-dictatorship-installer -> not found | 14:57 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: they removed it from the repo | 14:57 |
| kerio | ._. | 14:57 |
| realitygaps | apt-get install alternative-currency | 14:57 |
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| realitygaps | perhaps replaces dependencies of money package | 14:57 |
| kerio | realitygaps: nah, you have to apt-get install communism | 14:58 |
| realitygaps | kerio: package failed | 14:58 |
| VoltageX | hi, my sources.list seems to be getting replaced by the default every time I edit it | 14:58 |
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| Corsac | “Yes, do as I say” | 14:58 |
| kerio | VoltageX: you have to create a new file in /etc/apt/sources.d/ | 14:58 |
| kerio | or use one of the graphical package managers, they do that | 14:58 |
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| VoltageX | kerio: oh, is there a way to *delete* a repository from the gui then? | 14:59 |
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| kerio | hmm... tap and hold over it, from HAM? | 14:59 |
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| * VoltageX just worked out what HAM meant. | 15:00 | |
| kerio | not sure what fapman does | 15:00 |
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| kerio | (hehe, awesome apt frontends here on maemo) | 15:00 |
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| VoltageX | also, will Hildon decide to check for updates while on 3G? | 15:03 |
| realitygaps | im missing all the Ncr, Ntm and Swa ttf fonts in my /usr/share/fonts is there a package i can install to get them back? | 15:03 |
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| Ford_Prefect | DocScrutinizer: while I still think "pre-resampling" the sounds makes sense on a resource-limited device, playing with the default resampler in the PA config might get some gain | 15:07 |
| saltsa_ | mece, well, still having the problem. What I want is to have current location etc. in python application but I don't want to use qt or gobject. How I get the location? | 15:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Ford_Prefect: please rephrase "get some gain" | 15:08 |
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| Ford_Prefect | DocScrutinizer: using a lower complexity resampler would lower the CPU load | 15:08 |
| crashanddie | so nothing to do with gain | 15:09 |
| Ford_Prefect | Hard to quantify without actually testing | 15:09 |
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| crashanddie | (as in dB-gain) | 15:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Ford_Prefect: ack. That's why I suggested plug plugin of ALSA as a possible reference. Never seen such issues with ALSA plugins, and still they seem to me like doing a pretty good job | 15:10 |
| Ford_Prefect | DocScrutinizer: on a desktop-grade CPU, I assume? | 15:11 |
| Ford_Prefect | Where you won't see these kinds of issues with PA either | 15:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I actually see those issues with PA as well on desktop (well I did until I decided to sanitize the whole default audio setup and purge PA) - but no, I'm talking about samsung S3C2442 here, a SoC used in Openmoko Freerunner | 15:13 |
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| Ford_Prefect | Hmm, would be good to get to the bottom of the problem, then | 15:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | on a wild guess (as I've never looked into the details of it) it seems problem root cause is PA's async architecture | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | otherwise how could the mixer/resampler happily blast away on resampling/mixing a *stopped* stream | 15:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and eat CPU like mad on doing that | 15:17 |
| Ford_Prefect | Er, you've seen that happen on Maemo? | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 15:17 |
| alterego | Weird, last night I was looking at downloads, had almost 8k, now there's suddenly over 10k | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't mean it's not there on maemo, but this is actually common knowledge of desktop PA behaviour | 15:18 |
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| alterego | Was there a mass reflashing last night? :D | 15:18 |
| Ford_Prefect | DocScrutinizer: never seen that here | 15:19 |
| Ford_Prefect | At least in the last 2-3 years | 15:19 |
| alterego | seen/noticed? :) | 15:19 |
| Ford_Prefect | I would've noticed. Blasted laptop starts heating up any time something starts hogging the CPU. :) | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | this doesn't mean they changed the basic architecture, just maybe some bug with signalling stopped-status got fixed | 15:20 |
| Ford_Prefect | http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/HowToDebugCPULoadBugs might also have something to do with it | 15:20 |
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| Ford_Prefect | Anyway, that's my | 15:25 |
| Ford_Prefect | take on the problems pupnik has been seeing | 15:25 |
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| Ford_Prefect | Would be useful to see the latency on the "bad" streams too when he's around next | 15:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway for my latest experiences with PA I just can say: the combination of ARTS/phonon(KDE4) & PA is a constant PITA with all sorts of issues like audio failing for nothing all of a sudden, latencies of hours(sic!), audio completely nonfunct for several ALSA based apps etc, while ALSA plughw + dmix setup never gives me such headaches and works like a charm | 15:27 |
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| Ford_Prefect | I've seen a fair number of users with assorted problems, but I've really not heard people complaining of most of the things you seem to face | 15:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and yes, did I already mention PA's alsa compatibility plugin for ALSA based apps is obviously broken to a point of FUBAR | 15:29 |
| Ford_Prefect | I've got it as my default device here. My only complaints have been with the Flash plugin. | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 15:30 |
| Ford_Prefect | fwiw, speex-fixed-0 doesn't really do much for decreasing CPU usage over speex-fixed-2 (which is the default resampler) | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | It doesn't support *any* beyond the very basic alsa API function calls (or it pretends to do but really just messes them up) | 15:30 |
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| Ford_Prefect | DocScrutinizer: got any bugs I can look at? | 15:31 |
| Ford_Prefect | (i.e. for the problems you've had, including broken bits of API) | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | nothing specific, as I refused to look into PA | 15:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for general brokenness of compatibility plugin see loads of complaints against twinklephone not working anymore since distros moved to PA for default | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/twinklephone/messages | 15:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | twinkle does a few more involved things with ALSA API like querying buffer states etc, and that seems to break PA plugin on a regular basis | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | t me it seems it's been developed and tested for very basic plain vanilla playback and record usage only | 15:35 |
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| Ford_Prefect | I don't see a single bug report mentioning twinkle or twinklephone on PA trac | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | so a simple mp3 player may work with it, while apps with some not so basic requirements wrt latency etc, like twinklephone or flash (for lipsync) fail | 15:37 |
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| Ford_Prefect | Which would definitely help so that somoeone with the time and incination could actually, y'know, try to fix it | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmhm, yes. I'm not the one to post such ticket though, as I'm (even more) happy without any PA and also development of twinkle has stopped some 18 months ago, and I'm not the one to push PA "integration" to a prog that works in 99.95% whe used with plain vanilla ALSA | 15:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | on a general sidenote: I don't see any benefit coming from PA for any of the usecases I face everyday, so I somewhat dislike the whole why that PA is "pushed down everybodies" throat and now it's the app devels that get nagged to implement native PA into their sound apps to restore working sound. My take on this is: ALSA was quite a defacto standard (and still is, for the card drivers), and the only 2 things PA claims to provide that are | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | real improvements over ALSA are on the fly switching of soundcards and audio-over-IP. For the first one there are ways to do that in ALSA, though in a less flexible way, for the audio-over-network part I fail to see how that justifies pushing ALSA into every distro for the default audio subsystem. If anybody needs that, then it's best practice to install it, whether from PA or from any of the other soundserver pkgs already offering it | 15:53 |
| Ford_Prefect | And the adjustable (and allowing fairly large) latency | 15:54 |
| Ford_Prefect | And other stuff that has been rehashed over way too many times to merit going over again | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, adjustable latency is a very special niche case. Only needed for musicians | 15:54 |
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| derf | Why the gekk would a musician want a fairly large latency? | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | you might want a defined controllable latency, so you get in sync multitrac recordings | 15:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for usecases like phone voice it's nonsense in my book, as user doesn't care about latencies <100ms | 15:58 |
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| kerio | for phone voice you have to *reduce* latency as much as you can | 15:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | 100ms - no. | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm, but please emphasize the "as much as you can" and add "by using sensible means" | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | 500ms ->600ms - maybe | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, that's the range where delay becomes noticeable | 16:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | But onc eyou have 500ms in the network anyway - you don't want to add 100ms because it's a bit hard. | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure but it's useless effort to try and reduce it from 600ms to 590ms | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | for all but the "one line of code, no additional resorces used" case | 16:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | to implement PA for that is complete nonsense | 16:03 |
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| rmrfchik | I wonder, is there sources of maemo-connectivity? | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik nope | 16:04 |
| rmrfchik | maemo-connectivity_5.0+0m5.tar.gz in repo contains only debian dir | 16:05 |
| jacekowski | what is maemo-connectivity doing? | 16:05 |
| * frals trouts lcuk and MohammadAG51 | 16:06 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | rmrfchik: see http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html and http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture | 16:06 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: you can do audio over network with pure alsa | 16:07 |
| rmrfchik | jacekowski: I hope it controls connectivity | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: \o/ | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: even one more moot point for PA | 16:07 |
| kerio | PA sucks ._. | 16:08 |
| jacekowski | only thing that alsa doesn't have is per app volume | 16:08 |
| jacekowski | which is very very very nice thing | 16:08 |
| kerio | jackd was better in every damn way | 16:08 |
| jacekowski | and software mixing | 16:08 |
| lcuk | frals, how come my twittersheep thing does not show trout :P | 16:08 |
| lcuk | or did you not add that to your bio | 16:08 |
| frals | think my twitterbio is empty ;) | 16:09 |
| frals | just testing that twittersheep myself! | 16:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: wrong, I published a very simple hack to get per-app volume, some 2 years ago | 16:10 |
| frals | heh, http://twittersheep.com/results.php?u=frals | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: software mixing is done in dmix since ages, with better results than PA seems to yield | 16:10 |
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| frals | "dedicated more then everything freak" O_o | 16:11 |
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| * MohammadAG51 lcukslaps frals | 16:14 | |
| rmrfchik | connectivity is closed source | 16:14 |
| rmrfchik | damn nokia | 16:14 |
| frals | oi watch who you hit with that thing MohammadAG51! | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | at least we're using connman in meego | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:14 |
| frals | Stskeeps: "yey"? ;) | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | frals: heh | 16:15 |
| * MohammadAG51 would rather see network-manager | 16:15 | |
| rmrfchik | I had hope I can some how fix what is doing when device going online | 16:15 |
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| rmrfchik | I don't want apt running when going online on gprs | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: (per app volume) http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/twinklephone/message/1731 | 16:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | while true; do killall apt-worker; done | 16:16 |
| frals | uh, is that defined in some closed part of connectivity? | 16:16 |
| rmrfchik | MohammadAG51: and I do want to get it when do wifi ;) | 16:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | dpkg --purge apt | 16:16 |
| rmrfchik | frals: dunno. I want something to start digging. | 16:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | seriously, don't do that | 16:17 |
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| rmrfchik | MohammadAG51: I'm too qualified in debian to do this ;) | 16:17 |
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| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 16:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | dpkg --purge dpkg | 16:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | i wonder if it can do that | 16:17 |
| X-Fade | Ugh, switched to tethering my N900 over BT because my ADSL line is dead. Complete short in the wires outside :( | 16:17 |
| kerio | rmrfchik: set the autoupdate frequency to a year or something | 16:18 |
| frals | X-Fade: dont forget to plug the charger in otherwise you are going to curse again in 10minutes ;o | 16:18 |
| rmrfchik | kerio: but I like to have autoupdate when device going online at home wifi | 16:18 |
| kerio | do it manually | 16:18 |
| MohammadAG51 | there's an icd2 api afaik | 16:18 |
| X-Fade | frals: Yeah, it is already hot. But it is on charger :) | 16:19 |
| frals | rmrfchik: there is some /etc/blabla related to network up? | 16:19 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, i normally just plug direct to usb, n900 normally acts admirably as a usb dongle and it stays charged up! | 16:19 |
| rmrfchik | kerio: and second thing I like to switch off is to go Online (account online) on GPRS | 16:19 |
| * frals recall reading something similar at some point | 16:19 | |
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| MohammadAG51 | something like when on wifi do shit, when on 3G do other shit, when switching between both, trout frals | 16:19 |
| lcuk | lol | 16:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: it doesn't if you use it heavily | 16:19 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: yeah, I just wanted to be a bit more mobile with my laptop ;) | 16:19 |
| * lcuk never had any problems, but yeah wireless works | 16:20 | |
| kerio | yay my vibra is back | 16:20 |
| rmrfchik | 3G/GPRS are used "in field" when you quick need to get info in browser,mail. And apt/skype eats all traffic | 16:20 |
| kerio | it seems random though | 16:20 |
| kerio | :/ | 16:20 |
| kerio | *quick* need, with modest? :O | 16:21 |
| rmrfchik | frals: no any apt/online related stuff in /etc/networking | 16:22 |
| realitygaps | anyone know how to get fonts like NcrBR4nh.ttf back in /usr/share/fonts are they in a package? | 16:22 |
| kerio | rmrfchik: the autoupdate thingy is different | 16:22 |
| rmrfchik | kerio: with gmail/opera ;) | 16:22 |
| kerio | rmrfchik: oh, i see | 16:22 |
| kerio | :) | 16:22 |
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| rmrfchik | Modest is, well, not suited to work well | 16:22 |
| kerio | i'd like WifiSwitcher to actually be more than just a button | 16:22 |
| X-Fade | Works fine for simple mail notification and checking for me though. | 16:23 |
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| rmrfchik | X-Fade: it went crazy with my pop3 account. Shows old dead mail with dups (even triple items) | 16:24 |
| rmrfchik | Can't find any "sync mail and forget local" | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | rmrfchik: ttss pop3. That is so last century. | 16:24 |
| kerio | rmrfchik: delete account, try again? | 16:25 |
| kerio | delete account, rm -rf .modest, try again? | 16:25 |
| rmrfchik | kerio: yeah, seems like last resort | 16:25 |
| kerio | (note - .modest may or may not be the correct directory) | 16:25 |
| kerio | (probably not) | 16:25 |
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| rmrfchik | X-Fade: pop3 is only remote access method on mail.ru | 16:26 |
| kerio | rmrfchik: get gmail, set gmail to get mail from mail.ru, use gmail | 16:26 |
| X-Fade | rmrfchik: Setup a gmail account to fetch from pop3 and use google imap then? | 16:26 |
| kerio | X-Fade: BEAT YA | 16:26 |
| X-Fade | heh. | 16:26 |
| frals | X-Fade: google is evil! | 16:26 |
| X-Fade | frals: I'm guessing mail.ru is too. | 16:27 |
| * frals pets hotmail.com ;D | 16:27 | |
| rmrfchik | google da win! | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | (<MohammadAG51> while true; do killall apt-worker; done) nope, please don't! `while killall apt-worker; do sleep 1; done` is a much better approach | 16:28 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 16:29 |
| MohammadAG51 | there's an even better approach | 16:29 |
| MohammadAG51 | swap apt-worker with a script | 16:29 |
| MohammadAG51 | #!/bin/sh | 16:29 |
| MohammadAG51 | echo "haha, i'd like to see you rape my bandwidth now!" | 16:29 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: won't that stop always? | 16:30 |
| kerio | MohammadAG51: apt-worker is used by ham and fapman | 16:30 |
| MohammadAG51 | of course, HAM will stop working, but who cares | 16:30 |
| MohammadAG51 | kerio, err, apt-get is used by fapman afaik | 16:30 |
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| kerio | killall apt-worker exits with 1if there's no apt-worker | 16:30 |
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| ynezz | chmod -x is enough | 16:31 |
| kerio | yay kernel upgrade | 16:31 |
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| kerio | i just updated the kernel-power | 16:34 |
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| kerio | it updated kernel-power, kernel-power-modules and kernel-power-flasher | 16:35 |
| kerio | do i need to do something? | 16:35 |
| kerio | oh nvm it does it by itself | 16:35 |
| rmrfchik | do something | 16:36 |
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| * kerio does something | 16:36 | |
| rmrfchik | any1 have aptitude working? | 16:36 |
| kerio | hmm, the i18n for the pin request window title is - retranslating - "pin code" | 16:36 |
| kerio | isn't a code also a number? | 16:37 |
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| rmrfchik | mine is SIGSEGVing | 16:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pin == Personal Identification NUMBER | 16:39 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: i know | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | aslo a code might consist of more than just digits | 16:40 |
| kerio | "personal identification number code" sounds really bad | 16:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though jury seems to be out still on whether we can actually and always use PIN with alpha chars | 16:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | rmoravcik, i'm the maintainer | 16:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | the GUI segfualts, I know | 16:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | feel free to fix libcwidget ;) | 16:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | the CLI works though | 16:41 |
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| rmrfchik | I AM THE RMRFCHIK! | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway it's strongly deprecated as you'll get into trouble on usual phones with a pin like "AbCd" | 16:41 |
| rmrfchik | duh | 16:41 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: alphanumeric pin? | 16:42 |
| rmrfchik | MohammadAG51: main feature I want from aptitude -- new packages list | 16:42 |
| kerio | :o | 16:42 |
| kerio | is that standard? | 16:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kerio: I'd not know what to add to my above 3 posts | 16:43 |
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| Noma | ~flashing | 16:43 |
| infobot | [flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 16:43 |
| LjL | some info about the N900 - is it possible to read TMC (traffic over RDS) data from the FM tuner? does the light sensor give finegrained values? is the proximity sensor on/off or does it give a distance? | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | LjL: possibly; yes; on/off | 16:45 |
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| rmrfchik | kerio: what's new in kernel? | 16:46 |
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| kerio | dunno | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | LjL: | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia-N900-42-11:~# cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0029/lux | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | 184 | 16:48 |
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| KageSenshi | hurm .... just got myself a N900 .. facing a wifi connectivity issue with it .. after the first few minutes, the connection kindof died .. IP address still in tact, but theres no response when pinging my router .. turning off the power saving only gives me speed improvement (40ms ping to 3ms) but doesnt solve the disconnect issue .. | 16:50 |
| LjL | good. i'd like to use it as a light meter | 16:50 |
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| chem|st | KageSenshi: what is the whole setup? | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | KageSenshi: that's odd | 16:51 |
| KageSenshi | its new, just played around with it .. thinking of reflashing it back to default and see if can reproduce | 16:51 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: had another router set to wpa2 and got connected but had no traffic | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | LjL: "there's an app for that" | 16:51 |
| KageSenshi | i did install a bunch of stuff | 16:52 |
| chem|st | same router with wpa did work... | 16:52 |
| KageSenshi | gprs/3g works fine though | 16:52 |
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| LjL | DocScrutinizer: heh, nice | 16:52 |
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| chem|st | KageSenshi: not the setup of your n900 the connection settings... from both router and n900 | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | KageSenshi: by any chance you installed joghurt sport or maemo hotspot, or maybe auto disconnect or sth like that? | 16:53 |
| chem|st | LjL: it is a desktop widget and shows lux and another thing for cameras | 16:53 |
| KageSenshi | chem|st, router is WPA .. | 16:53 |
| chem|st | wpa what personal PSK? | 16:54 |
| LjL | i have an Android phone now and there's a light meter app for that, too, but unfortunately the light sensor i have seems to only give out pretty coarse reading (maybe ten or so possible values) | 16:54 |
| KageSenshi | DocScrutinizer, maemo hotspot is installed, but i havent run it yet .. autodisconnect was installed but now removed | 16:54 |
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| KageSenshi | chem|st, yeap , personal | 16:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | KageSenshi: hotspot comes with power kernel. I'd not be surprised you encounter problems with connectivity from that | 16:55 |
| chem|st | 2nd | 16:55 |
| frals | 3rd! | 16:56 |
| MohammadAG | 4th | 16:56 |
| MohammadAG | what's this about? | 16:56 |
| kerio | 5th | 16:57 |
| kerio | damn | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | KageSenshi: on deinstalling please RTFM first, otherwise prepare to flash | 16:57 |
| MohammadAG | ~debian KageSenshi | 16:57 |
| KageSenshi | hurm ... i got this issue since before installing powerkernel .. i just installed power kernel to see if theres improvement, but theres still the same ... maemo hotspot doesnt pull power kernel though | 16:57 |
| * infobot tells KageSenshi to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! | 16:57 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | KageSenshi: duh? it doesn't? newest thing I hear | 16:58 |
| Zucca | Is there a way to measure power consumption on N900? I mean to see how many milliamps the device uses at certain moment? | 16:58 |
| KageSenshi | i gonna try to reflash first and see if can reproduce .. | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, it's called bq27200.sh | 16:58 |
| KageSenshi | DocScrutinizer, yep it doesnt .. | 16:59 |
| frals | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/mobilehotspot/0.3.3/ | 16:59 |
| frals | Depends: | 16:59 |
| frals | kernel-feature-netfilter, | 16:59 |
| frals | ops, sorry for multiline ;< | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | np | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | and, do we see kernel-feature-netfilter on default kernel? | 17:00 |
| KageSenshi | weird .. powerkernel was not installed when i installed maemo hotspot .. | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol, sure. You already got it | 17:00 |
| KageSenshi | DocScrutinizer, i install it later on | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm :-/ | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe all that might explain the issues you see | 17:01 |
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| KageSenshi | probably | 17:01 |
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| Jaffa | Af'noon, all | 17:03 |
| * KageSenshi goes to look for the flashing tool | 17:04 | |
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| MohammadAG | afternoon Jaffa | 17:04 |
| MohammadAG | afaik mobilehotspot has kernel-power as a dep | 17:05 |
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| KageSenshi | if it does, then something odd happened that doesnt pull kernel-power with it .. | 17:05 |
| MohammadAG | impossible | 17:06 |
| KageSenshi | >.< | 17:06 |
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| KageSenshi | anyway i gonna try reflashing .. | 17:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Jaffa: hi | 17:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: well the powerkoernl could have shown conflicts e.g with fcam, and you could install mobilehotspot by ignoring the depends. something along that line | 17:09 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, not through HAMM | 17:10 |
| MohammadAG | -M | 17:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | sure not via HAM :-) | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | except in redpill mode maybe | 17:10 |
| MohammadAG | not a lot know how to enable it post 51-1 | 17:11 |
| KageSenshi | hurm .. i did have fcam installed before .. | 17:11 |
| kerio | did someone make fcam work with the power kernel? | 17:13 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 17:13 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, yes, just recompile the modules/use the t-tan compiled ones | 17:14 |
| MohammadAG | is there any way to set variables for an app when launching it? | 17:14 |
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| kerio | what variables? | 17:14 |
| KageSenshi | conflicts with kernel-power when i was trying to kernel-power .. (which during that time, maemohotspot is already installed) | 17:14 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, env | 17:15 |
| MohammadAG | the QA is kinda retarded | 17:15 |
| kerio | VAR=value application | 17:15 |
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| MohammadAG | kernel-power can cause HW damage, perl takes some / space | 17:16 |
| MohammadAG | kernel-power is in extras, frozen-bubble isn't | 17:16 |
| Termana | luke-jr, ping | 17:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | LANG=C trout MohammadAG | 17:16 |
| * Corsac trouts | 17:16 | |
| kerio | kernel-power is epic | 17:16 |
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| MohammadAG | yeah, when you take out overclock.diff | 17:17 |
| kerio | you can just not enable it | 17:17 |
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| MohammadAG | I know | 17:17 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 opens up a can of kernel-power | 17:17 | |
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| E0x | hello | 17:20 |
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| E0x | building something in the nokia qt sdk for maemo , i get a error about dh_installdirs failed | 17:20 |
| E0x | any idea ? | 17:20 |
| E0x | i can't find anything at the forum | 17:21 |
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| luke-jr | Termana: poing | 17:22 |
| Termana | luke-jr, when you activated the context in ofono (for gprs) what did you do after that? | 17:23 |
| PhonicUK | hey everyone | 17:23 |
| kerio | hmm, booting while connected via usb seems to constantly fail | 17:24 |
| X-Fade | Termana: Doing a dance of joy I guess ;) | 17:24 |
| Termana | Because once i do that, it gets ip address and dns server etc. but I can't ping anything etc. | 17:24 |
| kerio | well, *re*booting | 17:24 |
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| luke-jr | Termana: configured the interface | 17:25 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, err, VAR= in the .desktop file? never seen that | 17:26 |
| PhonicUK | can anyone suggest a really good theme? | 17:26 |
| PhonicUK | something blue | 17:26 |
| MohammadAG | Marina? | 17:26 |
| PhonicUK | and 'tidy' | 17:26 |
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| PhonicUK | i think i tried Marina before | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Termana: set default route? | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | LANG=C trout MohammadAG | 17:27 |
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| Termana | luke-jr, so I should do something like: ifconfig gprs0 ip.add.re.ss net ..etc. ? or? | 17:28 |
| Termana | netmask* | 17:28 |
| luke-jr | yeah | 17:28 |
| luke-jr | use GetProperties on the context to see what the IP should be | 17:28 |
| Termana | anything else I should need to do after that? | 17:29 |
| luke-jr | add a route if you want that | 17:29 |
| luke-jr | ip route prepend default dev gprs0 | 17:29 |
| kerio | yay fcam works | 17:30 |
| kerio | it does look good | 17:30 |
| Termana | righto thanks. brb | 17:30 |
| luke-jr | speakign of which, I don't have *any* cam working in Gentoo ;( | 17:30 |
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| kerio | how do i disable lfocus' proximity crap? | 17:30 |
| kerio | actually, i'll just uninstall it | 17:30 |
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| kerio | fcamera <3 | 17:31 |
| PhonicUK | i tried the blue sky theme | 17:31 |
| PhonicUK | buggy :\ | 17:31 |
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| MohammadAG | Marina theme | 17:32 |
| PhonicUK | k | 17:32 |
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| PhonicUK | ok i like this theme :) | 17:38 |
| PhonicUK | i wish there was an easy way of editing my home screens | 17:38 |
| PhonicUK | so I could neatly line things up in a grid | 17:38 |
| MohammadAG | argh | 17:38 |
| MohammadAG | .service files are retarded! | 17:39 |
| PhonicUK | lol | 17:39 |
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| PhonicUK | i wish there was a "Reboot" option when i press the power button | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | PhonicUK: try gridsnap | 17:40 |
| MohammadAG | PhonicUK, thereis one | 17:41 |
| MohammadAG | there isd | 17:41 |
| MohammadAG | DAMN SPACE BUTTON | 17:41 |
| MohammadAG | anyways | 17:41 |
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| MohammadAG | there are two ways to add a restart button | 17:41 |
| * luke-jr spaces over MohammadAG | 17:41 | |
| MohammadAG | the sudden restart, just take out the comments | 17:41 |
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| MohammadAG | the second one, a method by qwerty12, passes sudo reboot | 17:42 |
| MohammadAG | PhonicUK, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=476970#post476970 | 17:42 |
| PhonicUK | cool | 17:43 |
| PhonicUK | DocScrutinizer51, where is GridSnap? | 17:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | PhonicUK: e.g in tweakr | 17:44 |
| PhonicUK | ah | 17:44 |
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| PhonicUK | i love how almost every N900 is unique | 17:45 |
| PhonicUK | but almost all other 'brands' of smartphone look the same way | 17:45 |
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| MohammadAG | yeah, like iPhone homescreens | 17:46 |
| MohammadAG | anyways | 17:46 |
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| * realitygaps argh its not in the . config files either! must be a missing package, but which?? | 18:01 | |
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| lcukn900 | crap how do i stop xsnow ? | 18:38 |
| slonopotamus | :) | 18:39 |
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| * lcukn900 cannot remember and has dentist poking brains out | 18:39 | |
| Dassu | :( | 18:39 |
| Dassu | I hate when people poke needles in your brain | 18:39 |
| lcukn900 | indeed i cannot feel most of my head | 18:40 |
| lcukn900 | last time i was here there was so much needlage my eye was numb | 18:40 |
| slonopotamus | lcukn900: try doing reverse to what you did in order to start it | 18:40 |
| MohammadAG | killall xsnow | 18:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | xsnow across all desks would be awesome | 18:40 |
| slonopotamus | MohammadAG: hey, that kills kittens | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | you need to start it 4 times now | 18:40 |
| lcukn900 | speedevil sure | 18:40 |
| lcukn900 | thanks moh | 18:41 |
| lcukn900 | my god my tongue is so thick i thing its going to explode out of mouth | 18:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Whatdoes a little * mean on the left corner of a sent SMS? | 18:44 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 18:44 |
| SpeedEvil | a trianglewith a ! init | 18:44 |
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| MohammadAG | click the sms itself | 18:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | I have - it shows methetext of theSMS I sent | 18:45 |
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| MohammadAG | it should say delivered/pending etc | 18:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | I have no delivered/pending states on any SMSs | 18:46 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm, weird | 18:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | Hmm - though all of my other SMSs have a blue arrow - I assume inidcating sent. | 18:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway I think the !triangle is "failed to send" | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | what's the sysnode for the fmtx? | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063/* | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG | thanks :) | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: apt-get install find-utils | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | hjmm, maybe that's fmrx. Sorry | 18:55 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, seems to be the tx | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | ty | 18:57 |
| romen | In the N900 the FM radio component is able to act both as a receiver and as a transmitter, right? | 18:57 |
| SpeedEvil | fuck | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | different chips | 18:57 |
| SpeedEvil | It's _got_incoming_SMSs_ | 18:57 |
| SpeedEvil | WTFcan't it send | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | well, at least FMRX requires BT, FMTX doesn' | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | t | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | so yeah, I'd say different chips | 18:58 |
| romen | MohammadAG, yeah I guessed so too, but anyway it has TX capabilities, right? | 18:58 |
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| MohammadAG | yeah | 18:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | romen: the TX also has RX capabilities, yes | 18:58 |
| SpeedEvil | The parts are seperate | 18:58 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Receiver http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Transmitter | 18:59 |
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| romen | is there any app using the FMTX / do you have any usage scenario? | 18:59 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, hmm, so there are 2 chips for RX? | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | but the real RX is part of the BT chip and a separate function from SI4113 | 18:59 |
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| MohammadAG | oh | 18:59 |
| SpeedEvil | romen: there is a builtin app to turnit on in settings | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | romen: enable FMTX in any audio app prepared for it, e.g media player | 19:00 |
| romen | DocScrutinizer, the second page (transmitter) is empty | 19:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: the RX part of TX is supposed to be used for detecting unused frequencies | 19:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: it's not a real FM radio, with audio and all | 19:01 |
| * MohammadAG facepalms | 19:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: anyway it seems the RX in BT is better siuted for the job | 19:02 |
| MohammadAG | so that's two things supported on the hardware level, and not on the SW level | 19:02 |
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| MohammadAG | tap function in accelerometer, unused freq detection | 19:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: there's quite some more unused hw features | 19:03 |
| romen | DocScrutinizer, maybe you where referring to http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_FM_radio_transmitter | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | romen: I didn't refer to anything | 19:03 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, hmm? | 19:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | romen: may you are referring to SpeedEvil | 19:03 |
| romen | DocScrutinizer, you are definitely right xD | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: hm? hm? | 19:05 |
| MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: there's quite some more unused hw features | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: so mayn I don't know where to start | 19:05 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 19:05 |
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| MohammadAG | cam? | 19:05 |
| joser75g | ciao | 19:05 |
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| romen | DocScrutinizer, what will the media player do when enabling the FMTX? stream the played audio content? how do you choose which frequency should be used? | 19:07 |
| MohammadAG | need apache2 port | 19:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer:odd. the 'recently used' bit of my providers billing says it's gone, but not been charged for | 19:07 |
| MohammadAG | most audio gets rerouted | 19:07 |
| SpeedEvil | maybe it's not been picked up yet | 19:07 |
| MohammadAG | it's not specific to the media player | 19:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: let's start with awesome LP5523 LED ind driver chip. It has a comprehensive command set like a real little cpu, and we don't use any of that, like we don't use 2/3 of the available storage for patterns | 19:08 |
| SpeedEvil | romen: it's in the settings app | 19:08 |
| MohammadAG | fmtx_client us a backend | 19:08 |
| MohammadAG | is* | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: err sorry? | 19:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | oops | 19:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: (lp5523) mce could send a couple of I2C writes to ONE group fader register, to do that kbd LED ramping up/down. So we wouldn't waste a whole engine3 and could get real 3color effects on indicator LED | 19:16 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, hmm, time for jrmce? | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | (probably the amount of data to push over I2C is even less than the program for engine3 to do the fading) | 19:17 |
| MohammadAG | seriously | 19:18 |
| MohammadAG | a daemon can do everything mce can do | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | seriously NO specs for mce :-( | 19:18 |
| MohammadAG | well, mce is a daemon | 19:18 |
| MohammadAG | what does mce do anyways? | 19:18 |
| MohammadAG | handle lights? can be done | 19:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no source no api doc no nuttin | 19:18 |
| MohammadAG | when keyboard slides, read light sensor, adjust lights accordingly | 19:19 |
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| MohammadAG | lock switch -> turn off screen, go into standby mode | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's a friggin lot that's handled in mce, and every single bit of that would be nice to gain control over it. Alas... see above | 19:19 |
| MohammadAG | power button -> spawn systemui menu | 19:20 |
| MohammadAG | power button twice -> standby | 19:20 |
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| MohammadAG | all of those can be handled by DBus afaik | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | none of that can be handled by whatever replacement as long as we need mce around for doing the things we not considered when designing the replacement | 19:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | clear case of screwed by Nokia closed source policy | 19:21 |
| MohammadAG | what do we need mce for? | 19:22 |
| MohammadAG | if a replacement is coded, stop mce, then purge it | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | kill -9 mce and you'll learn :-P | 19:22 |
| MohammadAG | we can worry about the lifeguard later | 19:22 |
| MohammadAG | stop mce, same case as bme | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | mce is probably being replaced by some sensorfw stuff and something in meego | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | lifeguard is our least problem | 19:23 |
| MohammadAG | I kept mce off for quite some time | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG: that's kinda stupid if you want to power save.. | 19:23 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, true, it was for testing purposes | 19:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: and quite a number of things (like screen dimming) don't come back even on start mce | 19:24 |
| MohammadAG | they do | 19:24 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, actually, sec | 19:24 |
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| MohammadAG | right | 19:25 |
| MohammadAG | damn | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | mce is really hard to replace in maemo - much harder than bme | 19:25 |
| MohammadAG | who wants a modified fmtx module? | 19:27 |
| MohammadAG | all regions have the same limit, default power level set to 118 instead of 88 | 19:27 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: to do what? | 19:27 |
| MohammadAG | not tested of course | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, for what purpose? | 19:27 |
| kerio | oh, jacekowski did that | 19:27 |
| MohammadAG | with fmtxd | 19:27 |
| MohammadAG | not with the kernel module | 19:28 |
| MohammadAG | and wasn't that for headphones only? | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | toss it over :-D | 19:28 |
| lcuk | apt-get reinstall tooth-filling | 19:28 |
| lcuk | apt-get install pain | 19:28 |
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| MohammadAG | lcuk, E: Invalid operation reinstall | 19:31 |
| lcuk | thats why I had to install pain afterwards | 19:31 |
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| MohammadAG | dependency? | 19:31 |
| lcuk | it worked after that | 19:31 |
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| lcuk | nahh she had already dpkg -i novocaine | 19:32 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 19:33 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 19:35 |
| MohammadAG | how can I force remove a module? | 19:35 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG, I hope you are talking maemo and not still on about my mouth | 19:36 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 19:36 |
| * MohammadAG rmmods lcuk's painkiller.ko | 19:36 | |
| lcuk | there is a bit of lag in my mouth at the mo, I won't notice lack of that module for a couple of hours yet | 19:37 |
| RST38h | moo lcuk | 19:38 |
| RST38h | ehlo all | 19:38 |
| lcuk | \o | 19:38 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, i hear Moscow has had a little cooler weather yesterday/today | 19:38 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: BTW, sorry to ask a stupid question but how do I check the current fmtx level? is it in /sys somewhere? | 19:39 |
| RST38h | lcuk: heavy smog last night, but so far so good | 19:39 |
| RST38h | lcuk: And 34oC is still about 10oC higher than it should be | 19:39 |
| MohammadAG | bah | 19:39 |
| MohammadAG | it's not the module setting power level | 19:40 |
| MohammadAG | I guess it is fmtxd after all | 19:40 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, sec | 19:40 |
| MohammadAG | /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063/power_level | 19:40 |
| RST38h | thanks =) | 19:40 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, kinetic scrolling in xchat, NAO :p | 19:41 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 19:41 |
| MohammadAG | I remember when I joined #maemo someone was planning mockups for a new xchat UI | 19:42 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: the xchat main view is a custom gtk+ widget. good luck modifying that. | 19:42 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, decustomize it | 19:43 |
| RST38h | And yes, you can mock things up as much as you want, it does not make them happen | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | lol I knwo | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | know* | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | I was just wondering who it was | 19:43 |
| ShadowJK | iirc the author wrote the custom widget because gtk had no decent ones to offer | 19:43 |
| lcuk | RST38h, xchat also need to make UI space to toggle between scroll and select | 19:44 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Isn't there Qt-based XChat nowadays? | 19:44 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, thats not unheard of | 19:44 |
| lcuk | scrolling is hard | 19:44 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Not needed, scrolling is done with the scrollbar anyway | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | tbh | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | I think maemo's gtk should've edited so normal scrollbars would be autotranslated to kinetic ones | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | just like what was done to symbian | 19:44 |
| lcuk | RST38h, I mean if the kinetic were put in | 19:44 |
| * RST38h sighs at the mention of Maemo gtk+ | 19:44 | |
| MohammadAG | when they transitioned to kinetic scrolling, old apps supported it | 19:44 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG, its more difficult than that | 19:44 |
| kerio | did someone make a frequency scanner? | 19:45 |
| RST38h | lcuk: yea, but it is not even clear how to put kinetic into this beast =( | 19:45 |
| lcuk | even microsoft have problems | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | symbian didn't have problems :) | 19:45 |
| lcuk | symbian started on devices | 19:45 |
| lcuk | handhelds | 19:45 |
| lcuk | RST38h, high explosives should add kinetic energy | 19:46 |
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| romen | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_VGA_camera#Software, I have PR1.2, still with the front camera I can see turned on lamps, everything else is black... | 19:46 |
| ShadowJK | I'm pretty sure the only symbian app I ever write wont get kinetic scrolling if run on newest symbian ;p | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kerio: it's called FM radio ;-D | 19:48 |
| kerio | heh | 19:48 |
| kerio | idea: n900 communicator - use the fm radio and the fm transmitter to talk with another n900 | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: been discussed for ~2 dozen times now. Not worth it - range 10m | 19:50 |
| RST38h | the way I see it, fmtx range is more like 50cm | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're even better off using BT | 19:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well 10m was really really optimistic, so I never had to step back | 19:51 |
| MohammadAG | anyways, symbian is quite retarded in a lot of ways | 19:51 |
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| MohammadAG | kerio, I'd rather have a cross platform BT messenger | 19:52 |
| MohammadAG | something I could use to text messages via BT | 19:52 |
| lcuk | JUST SHOUT | 19:52 |
| lcuk | over | 19:52 |
| Corsac | OK | 19:52 |
| Corsac | over | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | or a SIP peer2peer client over WLAN | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ad hoc | 19:52 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, not useful when you want to tell someone something in private | 19:52 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, you are meant to say "over" | 19:52 |
| MohammadAG | over | 19:52 |
| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: use jabber link local messaging, over | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | or a SIP peer2peer client over | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | WLAN over | 19:53 |
| romen | can you see something with your N900 front camera? over. | 19:53 |
| Corsac | over WLAN over? | 19:53 |
| MohammadAG | copy that DocScrutinizer | 19:53 |
| MohammadAG | over | 19:53 |
| Corsac | romen: I see a really good looking man, over | 19:53 |
| lcuk | hold up device and use light signals from other side of a field. over | 19:53 |
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| lcuk | quite good at concerts. over. | 19:54 |
| romen | Corsac, that wouldn't be my case even if the light was ok. over. | 19:54 |
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| lcuk | that should actually be a competition "at a crowded event, pass messages to people at other end" | 19:54 |
| Corsac | romen: front camera sucks anyway, try the “mirror” application, over | 19:54 |
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| lcuk | oh, over | 19:54 |
| Corsac | sorry for interruption, over | 19:55 |
| kakashi_ | eh? over | 19:55 |
| lcuk | lol Corsac, no problem. over | 19:55 |
| romen | Corsac, I tried mplayer over /dev/video1, than hoping something would get better I tried even mirror, still everything remains reaaaaaaly dark. over. | 19:55 |
| Corsac | (welcome to #mhamemo, over) | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're sick! and I'm afk - LOL :-D | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | over | 19:55 |
| lcuk | :D over | 19:55 |
| romen | copy that DocScrutinizer . over. | 19:55 |
| Corsac | I'm running too, over and out | 19:56 |
| RST38h | romen: Have you tried holding lit electric bulb in your mouth? | 19:56 |
| MohammadAG | copy that, ttyl Corsac, over | 19:56 |
| romen | RST38h, I still miss a power source inside my mouth, not planning to update soon. over. | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | alpha foxtrott kilo - over and out | 19:57 |
| MohammadAG | Unit alpha, attack unit Delta (alias DocScrutinizer), over | 19:57 |
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| MohammadAG | convo's over? over | 20:01 |
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| RST38h | http://gizmodo.com/5609164/the-google-report-card | 20:01 |
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| RST38h | And yes, yessss: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/08/how-star-trek-artists-imagined-the-ipad-23-years-ago.ars | 20:06 |
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| MohammadAG | any HTTP servers for the N900? | 20:07 |
| mgedmin | python -m SimpleHTTPServer | 20:08 |
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| RST38h | Funny, how StarTrek gfx designer basically discovered the basics of computer UIs | 20:09 |
| RST38h | Same basics we know today through different means | 20:10 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 20:12 |
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| rcg | RST38h: not to forget cell phones ;) | 20:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | RST38h: also imagined that you could only have one doc on them at once. | 20:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Though I daresay that's coming in the next revision of the ipad. | 20:17 |
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| lcuk | X-Fade, there appears to be something funny happening to albanc's upload of monorail. its updated only part of the required package set (the source gives 2 .debs) monorail and monorail-dbg any chance you can just have a peek and see, I can't suss why its not working since everything appears to be in order *accidental #meego crossposting aside* | 20:20 |
| albanc | I just uploaded it again, but this time using the web interface instead of dput | 20:21 |
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| lcuk | reasonable enough albanc | 20:22 |
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| albanc | and I received another mail from "Maemo Extras Builder", identical to the previous one, except the timestamps | 20:23 |
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| albanc | lcuk, X-Fade : the source package is available but still only the -dbg is displayed: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/monorail/0.4/ | 20:27 |
| lcuk | albanc, hopefully it may just appear, I am goingto go and suck on my tea for a bit and hope I don't bite my tongue off | 20:28 |
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| aep | anyone got a solution for ICQ connection on maemo5? | 20:31 |
| aep | something not broken, that is | 20:31 |
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| RST38h | aep: install pidgin libraries 2.6.1 | 20:32 |
| aep | yeah well, preferable something that works with contacts | 20:33 |
| aep | ie, integrated | 20:33 |
| aep | the pidgin gui is a pain | 20:33 |
| RST38h | pidgin libraries 2.6.1 + telepathy-haze plugin | 20:33 |
| aep | telepathy-haze icq = "Network Error" | 20:33 |
| MohammadAG | albanc, any plans for other IM protocol support on monorail | 20:33 |
| MohammadAG | mainly, skype | 20:33 |
| aep | ever since i got this thing. | 20:34 |
| * RST38h shrugs: I have told you to install piding libes 2.6.1 | 20:34 | |
| RST38h | pidgin libs, sorry | 20:34 |
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| aep | uhmk, but those dont add another account plugin, do they? | 20:35 |
| aep | other then the haze one | 20:35 |
| aep | which is broken | 20:35 |
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| MohammadAG | haze wfm | 20:36 |
| albanc | MohammadAG, it does not depends on Monorail but on the telepathy connection manager for skype (telepathy-spirit). I don't know the plans for telepathy-spirit. | 20:37 |
| MohammadAG | and haze? | 20:38 |
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| albanc | MohammadAG, I don't know for haze but you should get the information on #telepathy | 20:39 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, didn't know monorail was a non-maemo project | 20:39 |
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| RST38h | it is | 20:40 |
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| aep | hm, do jabber transports work with the xmmp plugin? that might solve it | 20:41 |
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| jacekowski | aep: if transport can log in automaticaly then yes | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | anybody noticed any problems with this chan got +j recently? | 20:47 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, no more spam bots? | 20:52 |
| * MohammadAG waits for a shitload of bots to join | 20:52 | |
| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: what does +j do? | 20:53 |
| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: adds hookers? :) | 20:53 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 20:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | join throttle | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3:20 +f ##overflow | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc | 20:56 |
| albanc | Monorail is a maemo project, but it does not implement anything in Jabber, skype, whatever. It is just an UI for file transfers with telepathy. So if a telepathy connection manager for your protocol is added in maemo, Monorail will benefit from it without recompilation. | 20:56 |
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| PhonicUK | lo all | 21:03 |
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| PhonicUK | i love the OSK in the marina theme | 21:06 |
| PhonicUK | much clearer | 21:06 |
| MohammadAG | :) | 21:07 |
| MohammadAG | i think it's wazd's | 21:07 |
| PhonicUK | cool. theres a much clearer difference between the enter and backspace keys. | 21:07 |
| wazd | I'm not sure what's OSK, but thanks :) | 21:07 |
| wazd | aaah, the keyboard :) | 21:07 |
| PhonicUK | now i just need to find out how to delete words from the dictionary | 21:08 |
| RST38h | moo wazd | 21:08 |
| MohammadAG | PhonicUK, autocomplete editor | 21:08 |
| MohammadAG | it's in extras, or one of them | 21:08 |
| wazd | RST38h: o/ Looks like we have some quasi-fresh air today :) | 21:08 |
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| RST38h | wazd: yea, windows open, AC on | 21:08 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Seen the article about StarTrek PADD design? | 21:10 |
| wazd | RST38h: nope, but I guess I saw the theme | 21:11 |
| wazd | RST38h: you can hit me with a link anyway :) | 21:12 |
| RST38h | wazd: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/08/how-star-trek-artists-imagined-the-ipad-23-years-ago.ars | 21:13 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I wonder if anyone will dare to make PADD UI for MeeGo tablet, since I was told it's "oh so customizable" :) | 21:16 |
| RST38h | UI or theme? | 21:16 |
| wazd | not just a theme, but with all transitions and interactions | 21:16 |
| RST38h | theme is easy | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: ping | 21:16 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: o/ :) | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm? | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | lo wazd, how's the smoke? | 21:16 |
| RST38h | wazd: PADD has preciously few transitions (it was a set of plastic overlays after all) | 21:17 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: gone for a while :) | 21:17 |
| RST38h | wazd: but the actual UI would be a feat ;) | 21:17 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, it can be refreshed a little :) | 21:17 |
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| RST38h | wazd: we can try simulating it in HTML ;) | 21:17 |
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| wazd | "amorphous metal alloys to slip into Apple products soon" | 21:18 |
| wazd | these journalists are never tired I guess | 21:18 |
| RST38h | iDildo? | 21:19 |
| wazd | or they mean "soon" in universe scale :) | 21:19 |
| slonopotamus | RST38h: :D | 21:19 |
| RST38h | amorphous metal alloys are not news | 21:20 |
| RST38h | kinda expensive to make though, last time I checked | 21:20 |
| SpeedEvil | I was amused to see the bit about gorilla glass actually being 50yo | 21:20 |
| RST38h | Speed: well, the "other" parts have not existed then, like 400+MHz CPUs, LCd screens, and Li batteries :) | 21:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - of course not. | 21:22 |
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| PhonicUK | rar | 21:30 |
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| BCMM | RST38h: quite right, not that long ago, it was easy for the majority of the weight of a portable thing to be battery | 21:34 |
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| luke-jr | Stskeeps: Quim is stepping on your toes -.- | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: quim has the final word | 21:45 |
| luke-jr | why did I waste my time opening a new bug then? | 21:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | bug? | 21:46 |
| frals | link? | 21:47 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: gpsdriver source bug | 21:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3833 - not I guess | 21:52 |
| povbot | Bug 3833: Request for information to allow hooking into A-GPS location framework | 21:52 |
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| * E0x looking for python-xlib package for Fremantle | 21:56 | |
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| luke-jr | Stskeeps: you fail at marking bug duplicate… | 22:03 |
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| flux | bts takes feature requests now? | 22:22 |
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| ArkanoiD | fscking as-daemon | 22:29 |
| ArkanoiD | it keeps running at 100% cpu about third of the time | 22:29 |
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| lcuk | luke-jr, give bug number, that one SpeedEvil found doesn't look recent | 22:40 |
| luke-jr | …. | 22:41 |
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| anto | anyone else experienced a problem after PR1.2 upgrade: some contacts name/picture ain't shown when calling/in logs/in conv views etc.? | 22:42 |
| anto | *when they are calling | 22:43 |
| anto | conv=conversations | 22:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anybody getting *email* notifications about watched wiki sites been edited? | 22:45 |
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| GAN900 | I unsubbed from those in 2008 | 22:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | seems it's duplak anyway. null() | 22:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rejectlog:2010-08-10 11:35:03 H=(ns2.name2serve.com) [195.95.2.192] F=<niels@maemo.org> rejected RCPT <joerg@openmoko.org>: Sender verify failed | 22:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bah | 22:58 |
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| ShadowJK | lol | 23:05 |
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| ShadowJK | Anyone else on maemo4 noticed the internet radio directory has gotten shitloads more stations recently? | 23:15 |
| * ShadowJK finds some real-life stations too that don't have public shoutcast/mp3/sane streams and copies over urls to n900 | 23:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 23:16 |
| timeless | shadowjk: eh? | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | maemo4? | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka diablo? | 23:16 |
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| ShadowJK | ya | 23:17 |
| * DocScrutinizer wanders over to N810 | 23:17 | |
| ShadowJK | timeless: well most FM stations only have flash players these days | 23:17 |
| FredrIQ | why did this channel become jointhrottled? | 23:18 |
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| ShadowJK | It stutters, eats powers and drops out :/ | 23:18 |
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| nox- | moin | 23:19 |
| FredrIQ | Maybe it's just my client that fail | 23:19 |
| FredrIQ | #maemo [20 ##overflow] [518] | 23:19 |
| FredrIQ | er, 512* | 23:19 |
| ShadowJK | but now the same channel appeared on N810 meduaplayer with a decent shoutcast http://*nokiamobile*/ url.. I'm guessing nokia must've negotiated for them to put up a non-flash stream :) | 23:19 |
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| ShadowJK | streaming on edge with Mugen battery lasts almost a work day for me :D | 23:20 |
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| ShadowJK | half a workday with flash.. | 23:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | FredrIQ: it's been set to +j 3:20 yesterday, for testing if this will give additional protection against spambots | 23:21 |
| FredrIQ | what does 3:20 means, 20 clients in 3 secs? | 23:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 3 clients in 20s | 23:22 |
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| FredrIQ | Ah | 23:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | FredrIQ: you ran into a chan forward to ##overflow? | 23:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | did you? | 23:24 |
| FredrIQ | DocScruntizer, i've done it before, but not recently | 23:24 |
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| FredrIQ | (i.e. not in thos chan) | 23:24 |
| FredrIQ | this* | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | k | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | please report if you do, everybody | 23:24 |
| FredrIQ | ok | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | on very rare occasions there may be >3 users joining during <20s on coincidence | 23:25 |
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| wazd | wow, I just saw lightning! I almost forgot how it looks :) | 23:25 |
| FredrIQ | Yeah, fully possible | 23:25 |
| FredrIQ | Isn't bot used to join in mass? | 23:25 |
| FredrIQ | bots* | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | we don't hope to see this happening more frequently than maybe once every few das though | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | days* | 23:26 |
| FredrIQ | (like >10 bots in <5 secs) | 23:26 |
| * ShadowJK forgot how nice N810 speakers were | 23:26 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, at least hat's what the +j shall catch | 23:27 |
| * DocScrutinizer missing mediaplayer on N810 :'( | 23:27 | |
| MohammadAG | I want an N810 :( | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | either there never was any, or it's gone, or I'm stupid | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG | xmms2? | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | seem to remeber there was some | 23:29 |
| ShadowJK | it's in "My Selection" | 23:29 |
| * DocScrutinizer scratches head | 23:29 | |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly not anymore :-/ | 23:29 |
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| ShadowJK | Map, Skype, Media Player, Images, Help | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | hah, yes | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's been third option :-P | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | :oD | 23:30 |
| ShadowJK | /usr/bin/mediaplayer-ui | 23:30 |
| FredrIQ | Btw, that thing at the left on Maemo4, is it runnin tasks or some type of "favorite apps"? | 23:30 |
| tybollt | sampo? | 23:31 |
| lcuk | tybollt, are you really only just responding now? | 23:31 |
| ShadowJK | FredrIQ, default: web menu, app menu, contacts/email/im menu, (running apps), task selector at bottom | 23:32 |
| FredrIQ | Ok | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | Germany 1-1000 :-D | 23:33 |
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| ShadowJK | N8x0 also has fullscreen button which makes any app fullscreen | 23:33 |
| FredrIQ | Doesn't that work to get in maemo somehow? | 23:33 |
| ShadowJK | and a button to bring up runnig tasks | 23:33 |
| ShadowJK | (hardware buttons) | 23:33 |
| FredrIQ | Readed on some chinese site (or was it japanese?) a way to install a bunch of things and get fullscreen with shift+enter | 23:34 |
| FredrIQ | Ok | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | and a MENU button - my love | 23:34 |
| ShadowJK | oh yeah. menu button is awesome | 23:34 |
| ShadowJK | I also wish there was a longtap button | 23:34 |
| MohammadAG | the N900 needed 3 more buttons tbh | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | send/end, and a menu key, hold for home/task man | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, how shall I decide whether to look for a nice radio station in Germany_1-1000 or in Germany_1001-1247 ? | 23:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 23:36 |
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| MohammadAG | screw the radio | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | last.fm ftw | 23:36 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | need to continue working onsynaptic | 23:37 |
| MohammadAG | on* | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | I saw someone with a bigger cellphone than my N900+mugen today :) | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | It looked ancient. black/gray monochrome lcd | 23:38 |
| tybollt | lcuk: When you've a 7 day old son to take care I trust you'll have about as good a roundtrip answering as I have right now, mate ;) | 23:38 |
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| ShadowJK | but it's actually modern.. somewhat noncomercial | 23:38 |
| lcuk | tybollt, 15 and 8 | 23:38 |
| tybollt | lcuk: :) then you've ample experience :) | 23:38 |
| lcuk | when you have older one, you learn the first time | 23:38 |
| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: a ti-83 or a freerunner? | 23:38 |
| ShadowJK | government issue special model, it can fallback to mesh mode if cellular network dies :) | 23:39 |
| lcuk | tybollt, anyway, sampo savola == ecoach author == sampppa == http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/ecoach/ | 23:39 |
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| tybollt | lcuk: I know as much | 23:39 |
| FredrIQ | someone should make a GUI, or at least some type of console application for playing with existing and new keyb shortcuts | 23:39 |
| FredrIQ | shadowjk, hah | 23:39 |
| tybollt | lcuk: it was the nick I was fishing for, thanks | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | stskeeps: freerunner has color vga doesn't it? | 23:39 |
| tybollt | lcuk: you know... some of the authors DO in fact hang out here on irc ;) | 23:40 |
| lcuk | yeah tybollt | 23:40 |
| lcuk | sampppa does occasionally | 23:40 |
| tybollt | fair enough, shall try to keep an eye on here if he gets in here | 23:42 |
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