IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-07-10

Cyborg_	Yeah but still no voice. Mor or less pointless for driving.	00:00
Cyborg_	*More	00:00
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: huh? �ber-cool backlight fade-in?	00:08
kerio	Cyborg_: enter the nokia server farm, make a copy of the ovi maps servers, run them locally from within your car	00:08
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DocScrutinizer	Cyborg_: ovi maps has a way to download all the maps, aiui. Some app or similar.	00:10
kerio	yeah but the actual navigation needs the net	00:10
DocScrutinizer	Cyborg_: the odd thing about ovi maps is the still painfully missing turn-by-turn voice navigation	00:10
Cyborg_	I know.	00:11
DocScrutinizer	especially since you'd think now that Nokia announced they'll sell all future N series with meego, they should know a maemo app for that would be a nice start for the later meego ovi maps	00:12
Cyborg_	It sucks and there is a surprising number of really stupid errors for my country. But there is no free alternative right?	00:12
Cyborg_	Yeah but N900 is stuck with Maemo, right?	00:12
kerio	mappero	00:12
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: message from nolo	00:12
Shapeshifter	Cyborg_: I think navit works but it's unstable or something.	00:13
* DocScrutinizer lols @ NOLO		00:13
* DocScrutinizer wasn't aware NOLO gives any messages		00:13
jacekowski	it does	00:13
jacekowski	on serial console	00:13
jacekowski	loads of them	00:13
MohammadAG51	"no initfs \o/"	00:13
jacekowski	that's kernel i think	00:14
jacekowski	hmm	00:14
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jacekowski	no that was xloader	00:14
jacekowski	other message it can give	00:14
Cyborg_	Well I am driving in about a week to a foreign land I don't know and I would really like some good Navi. :9 Or I might get lost.	00:15
jacekowski	M:80414A1F DCB "Waiting for the kernel to magically appear",0xA,0	00:15
MohammadAG51	LOL	00:15
jacekowski	RAM:80414A65 aYupThereItIs_S DCB "Yup, there it is. Stand by for some Linux pleasure.",0xA,0	00:15
MohammadAG51	i wonder if steve jobs is a contractor	00:15
jacekowski	and it looks like nolo has interactive console as well	00:15
jacekowski	because i saw code that looks like a command interpreter	00:15
MohammadAG51	how are using the serial console?	00:15
DocScrutinizer	yeah, with rs232 jig	00:15
jacekowski	MohammadAG51: static analysis	00:15
jacekowski	MohammadAG51: i don't have serial jig	00:16
MohammadAG51	what type of cable	00:16
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MohammadAG51	oh	00:16
MohammadAG51	nvm	00:16
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: analyze which UART NOLO is using for console!!	00:16
kerio	wait, are those real messages?	00:16
kerio	O.o	00:16
jacekowski	RAM:80415474 aAieeeSomeSerio DCB "Aieee! Some serious inconsistency in block versioning",0	00:16
jacekowski	RAM:804155EC aErrorInPrimary DCB "error in primary config block; trying to use spare",0	00:17
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jacekowski	RAM:8041561F aErrorSecondary DCB "error secondary config block too; something is really fucked up",0	00:17
DocScrutinizer	mhm	00:17
DocScrutinizer	sounds like some of the NAND fs stuff	00:17
kerio	tell me those are real messages	00:18
MohammadAG51	nolo says "fucked up"?	00:18
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: cal stuff	00:18
MohammadAG51	kerio, jacekowski doesn't kid	00:18
DocScrutinizer	cal aka the most simple NAND fs ever	00:19
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Stskeeps	there's some fun quotes in nolo, yeah	00:19
kerio	wtf is nolo	00:19
MohammadAG51	bootloader	00:19
Stskeeps	bootloader on nokia 770,n8x0,n900	00:19
kerio	i see	00:19
DocScrutinizer	on OM we called that partition ENV, not CAL iirc	00:19
DocScrutinizer	Nokia LOder	00:20
jacekowski	well, nolo is different on every phone	00:20
DocScrutinizer	NOkia LOader	00:20
DocScrutinizer	even	00:20
jacekowski	tablet*	00:20
* kerio reads about it		00:20
kerio	wtf? not open?	00:21
inz	nolo = embarassing	00:21
MohammadAG51	kerio, no	00:21
DocScrutinizer	you bet it is, like phoenix bios is different on every differend build of laptop	00:21
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: happen to know what battery chip sits in a ADP1?	00:21
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DocScrutinizer	burp, what?	00:21
Stskeeps	nexus one / android developer phone 1	00:21
Stskeeps	er, i mean, G1	00:22
DocScrutinizer	what's a ADP1? what's a battery chip?	00:22
DocScrutinizer	oh nope. Sorry no idea	00:22
Stskeeps	k	00:22
mgedmin	when you strike a battery really hard with an axe, chips fly off	00:22
MohammadAG51	mgedmin, orly?	00:22
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: that's called flares I think	00:22
MohammadAG51	:p	00:22
Shapeshifter	oh this is just great. I've placed a symlink in /usr/bin/ to my python file in /opt... and this doesn't get translated to the package when it's being built.	00:23
Shapeshifter	how awesome is that.	00:23
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kerio	mgedmin: is there a way to do that by software?	00:23
MohammadAG51	Shapeshifter, make it symlink it in debian/rules	00:23
kerio	i need it for my n900-frag project	00:23
kerio	i thought about overheating the battery	00:23
kerio	but apparently the best i can get is a short life	00:24
kerio	:/	00:24
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Shapeshifter	MohammadAG51: mhh	00:24
DocScrutinizer	kerio: definitely no way	00:24
kerio	what about overclocking the cpu and raising the battery voltage at the same time?	00:25
DocScrutinizer	kerio: if you need a second opinion, then go ask Nokia, they probably will tell you they won't comment as they fear it might be possible :-P	00:25
* RST38bis opens 6 apps at once, smiling satanically		00:25
kerio	RST38bis: throw it now!	00:26
kerio	hurry, you only have a month or so before it explodes	00:26
DocScrutinizer	kerio: what now? making battery detonate, or simply a boring silent death due to overheating or other unspectacular hw failure? the second one is really easy	00:27
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DocScrutinizer	you can download my kill-it app from OVI store in 3 weeks :-P	00:28
jacekowski	ehhh	00:28
jacekowski	i need decent memory map	00:28
kerio	DocScrutinizer: i was going for a detonation	00:28
kerio	but i guess the boring silent death with some cool sound and graphic effects is fine too	00:29
jacekowski	and omap trm format is unparseable in any usefull way	00:29
DocScrutinizer	kerio: I might be able to even provide some magic blue smoke	00:30
kerio	awesome	00:30
kerio	wait, how?	00:30
* DocScrutinizer thinks about smoking up some speakers...		00:31
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DocScrutinizer	or the flash LEDs	00:32
DocScrutinizer	or the cam focus coil	00:32
DocScrutinizer	or ALL THREE >:-D	00:33
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RST38bis	the vibrator	00:33
DocScrutinizer51	won't smoke	00:34
RST38bis	Doc is obviously no Cpt Obvious here	00:34
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RST38bis	for he is forgetting the mighty Vibrator.	00:34
RST38bis	mental note: add GB RumblePack emulation	00:34
jophish	Howdy all	00:35
jophish	Could somebody with a UK based warranty do me a large favour?	00:36
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jophish	http://www.nokia.co.uk/support/repair/repair/warranty?c=1	00:37
jophish	I am unable to complete this because I have a US based warranty	00:37
jophish	so I can't access the freepost form for sending my phone off.	00:37
jophish	Thanks	00:37
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unixSnob	how do folks SMS from their n8x0? Does it require using bluetooth and a phone?	00:46
MohammadAG51	most probably	00:46
MohammadAG51	or skype supports sms	00:46
MohammadAG51	or they consider twitter sms	00:46
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unixSnob	are there no apps that are aware of all the free gateways?	00:48
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jacekowski	DocScrutinizer51: it looks like it's uart 0	00:49
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: I heard it should be 3?	00:50
DocScrutinizer	dunno	00:50
jacekowski	uart1*	00:50
jacekowski	the 1st one	00:50
DocScrutinizer	aah	00:50
DocScrutinizer	ok	00:50
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jacekowski	hmm, i thinking about making something like that in C http://sites.google.com/site/redcodenl/creating-shazam-in-java-1	00:53
jacekowski	for N900	00:53
jacekowski	just for lulz	00:53
jacekowski	so i could tell them to gtfo after they send me c&d letter	00:54
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trem	nite all, sweet dreams	01:31
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Shapeshifter	So, I packaged the game I wrote. Would someone please try it before I announce it on TMO? Should be fine, but maybe something's missing. WFM anyway. The game's called "Maemo Reactor" and it's in extras-devel. It's for 2 players btw. :)	01:51
Shapeshifter	I have to leave the house but if you have feedback, you can just /q me or whatever ^^	01:52
MohammadAG51	Shapeshifter, did my tip work? :)	01:52
Shapeshifter	thanks.	01:52
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG51: mh I just wrote a small script, had to cd into the dir anyway for the relative paths to work.	01:53
Shapeshifter	gotta run!	01:53
MohammadAG51	cya :)	01:53
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lardman	evening chaps	01:55
Ken-Young	Hi	01:56
lardman	any US N900 users around here?	01:56
FireFly	Hi, how do I modify the key layout of the N900? (preferably both the hardware keyboard as well as the symbols list, but atm only the former)	01:56
FireFly	lardman, european I'm afraid :)	01:56
lardman	What do you recommend by way of pay-as-you-go contract/company?	01:56
Ken-Young	lardman, I'm a US N900 user.	01:56
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Ken-Young	lardman, In the US, T-mobile is basically the only choice if you want 3g, isn't it?	01:57
lardman	Ken-Young: no clue, that's why i ask :)	01:58
Ken-Young	lardman, I'm pretty sure T-Mobile is the only choice.	01:58
lardman	I've read that AT&T also do GSM?	01:58
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lardman	hey dneary	01:59
dneary	hi there	01:59
Ken-Young	There may be some small regional carrier, but nation-wide only AT&T and T-Mobile are GSM, and AT&T is incompatible with the N900's 3g signals.	01:59
Ken-Young	You could make calls on AT&T, but no 3g data.	01:59
lardman	Ken-Young: ah ok, well that sort of narrows it down then I guess :) Many thanks	02:00
ShadowJK	edge data would work though	02:00
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dneary	lardman, just on my way to bed after driving 13 hours across France.	02:00
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lardman	dneary: back home?	02:00
dneary	yup	02:00
lardman	You heading back "home" for the Maemo/Meego summit?	02:00
lardman	not sure I can make that unfortunately	02:01
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dneary	Should do	02:01
dneary	It's pencilled into the calendar	02:02
lardman	I need to check dates, would be a shame to not make it across	02:02
* lardman still grumbles as a a GBP conf would surely be cheaper than Euros		02:03
lardman	for everyone	02:03
lardman	Ken-Young: do you happen to know whether the USA and Canada share phone contracts? I understand the dialing codes are the same?	02:04
lardman	Ken-Young: I'm over to the US for a couple of weeks then Canada, so thinking if I could get a sim that would cover both that would be useful	02:04
ShadowJK	I'd go by the assrape principle: If they can fuck you over, they will	02:05
* SpeedEvil offers the use of his greenhouse for conferences.		02:05
lardman	yeah, just thinking that it must be marginally harder than when I go to France ;)	02:05
MohammadAG51	whoever made the keyboard sound effects and touch screen sounds is weird	02:06
lardman	I mean telcos can't tell the difference between cell ids can they!?	02:06
MohammadAG51	the touch screen one makes it sound like the device is defective	02:06
MohammadAG51	the keyboard one is too long to keep up with fast typing	02:06
lardman	MohammadAG51: I'm getting that with Windows 7, lots of trumpets	02:06
MohammadAG51	rofl	02:06
MohammadAG51	summit? what summit?	02:07
lardman	Autumn	02:07
MohammadAG51	when?	02:07
lardman	not to worry	02:07
lardman	MohammadAG51: the maemo summit thing	02:08
MohammadAG51	i know, what date	02:08
lardman	can't remember but I think it was early to mid Sept	02:09
MohammadAG51	oh, just in time w/ school, wonderful	02:09
lardman	looked like I wouldn't be able to make it easily	02:09
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ShadowJK	MohammadAG51, and you aren't confusing the vibrator as a sound?	02:11
MohammadAG51	ShadowJK, nope	02:12
pupnik_	http://baltimorechronicle.com/2009/images/DUbaby.jpg	02:13
kerio	pupnik_: ew	02:13
dannym	hmm, what is in the file /etc/apt/sources.list of fremantle in scratchbox usually?	02:13
pupnik_	it's what's for breakfast kerio	02:14
MohammadAG51	4 lines dannym	02:14
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dannym	MohammadAG51: which ones? :)	02:16
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MohammadAG51	dannym, sdk ones, they're on http://repository.maemo.org	02:16
MohammadAG51	i'm away from an sdk atm	02:16
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dannym	MohammadAG51: mine looks like that: http://pastebin.com/VvjNDvB7	02:17
dannym	MohammadAG51: I got it by first copying the sources.list from the device over and then adapting the ones I had in the Diablo scratchbox and adding them, too. Is there an official way how to do it?	02:19
MohammadAG51	7-10	02:19
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MohammadAG51	are the default fremantle ones	02:19
dannym	MohammadAG51: ah, thanks	02:19
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dannym	MohammadAG51: the reason why I'm messing with it (worked fine for some time) is that I wanted to install fbreader's build dependencies	02:21
dannym	MohammadAG51: got some message that said I should do "apt-get -f install", so I did. And then that happens: http://pastebin.com/d9ngmF4f	02:23
MohammadAG51	not sure tbh, reinstall from scratch? :)	02:24
MohammadAG51	or apt-get install apt and the other packages in NEW	02:24
dannym	MohammadAG51: yeah, probably the easiest way... will try :)	02:25
MohammadAG51	infobot, maemosdk	02:25
infobot	rumour has it, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation	02:25
MohammadAG51	~botsnack	02:25
infobot	MohammadAG51: thanks	02:25
dannym	:D	02:25
MohammadAG51	infobot, $50	02:26
* infobot takes the cash and sucks mohammadag51 off		02:26
MohammadAG51	xD @ whoever made that	02:26
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dannym	"apt-get install apt" didn't help, so I did "dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/apt*", that helped. Weird...	02:32
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dannym	MohammadAG51: thanks :)	02:38
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luke-jr	is it practical to remove pulseaudio from Maemo5?	02:47
luke-jr	since it is the biggest memory user...	02:47
microlith	doubtful	02:47
pupnik_	i spent a bit of time investigating that luke-jr - you would lose a lot of features	02:49
luke-jr	pupnik_: such as?	02:50
pupnik_	phone	02:51
luke-jr	:(	02:51
luke-jr	wait	02:51
luke-jr	app or hardware?	02:51
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MohammadAG51	app, doh	02:52
luke-jr	hmm	02:52
luke-jr	I could live with that I think	02:52
luke-jr	I need to replace the app anyway	02:52
MohammadAG51	right... how?	02:52
luke-jr	dunno	02:52
luke-jr	actually, I just need to replace the telepathy backend	02:52
luke-jr	and there are other telepathy frontends already	02:53
MohammadAG51	yes, but the phone daemon is closed afaik	02:53
MohammadAG51	as well as the modem driver	02:53
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: the telepathy piece?	02:53
MohammadAG51	telepathy-ring	02:53
luke-jr	:/	02:53
luke-jr	how am I going to modify it then?	02:53
luke-jr	isn't there an ofono implementation that's open?	02:53
MohammadAG51	you're not :)	02:53
luke-jr	I need to	02:53
MohammadAG51	see MeeGo	02:54
luke-jr	I want to use DNS queries to dial	02:54
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lardman	night chaps	02:54
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luke-jr	that is, query 14025551212.gibberishpassword.dashjr.org, and have my server call me back ;)	02:54
luke-jr	(DNS always works, even without data service)	02:55
microlith	within a few weeks or so there should be a release of ofono that will work without closed bits on the N900	02:55
ShadowJK	lol?	02:55
ShadowJK	srsly?	02:56
MohammadAG51	i felt the same	02:56
luke-jr	also want a daemon to log my GPS position via DNS to my server too...	02:56
MohammadAG51	xD	02:56
luke-jr	ShadowJK: ?	02:56
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ShadowJK	blobless ofono	02:56
* MohammadAG51 doubts that		02:56
ShadowJK	that's why my first reaction was 'lol?'	02:56
MohammadAG51	i know	02:57
MohammadAG51	xD	02:57
paroneayea	microlith: where do you get this information?	03:00
paroneayea	blobless ofono is relevant to my interests.	03:00
microlith	that's the impression I get from the forum and ml, maybe it's wrong?	03:00
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microlith	I'm wondering what value there is in keeping a closed blob	03:01
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paroneayea	I don't see any value in it, but it's a longstanding, depressing "tradition" :P	03:01
SpeedEvil	Keeping what?	03:01
SpeedEvil	There are many reasons	03:01
ShadowJK	Unfortunately nokia no longer owns the modem	03:01
ShadowJK	they sold it to japan	03:01
paroneayea	SpeedEvil: <microlith> within a few weeks or so there should be a release of ofono that will work without closed bits on the N900	03:01
SpeedEvil	a common one is that it was simply developed without thought that it may be wanted to be open	03:02
SpeedEvil	so the contracts were not written to permit it	03:02
paroneayea	I'm out	03:02
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: Excuses*	03:02
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SpeedEvil	It's not actually an excuse - it's a valid point.	03:02
SpeedEvil	The question then arises 'why weren't...'	03:03
SpeedEvil	which is a much harder question for a supposedly open platform	03:03
microlith	well, it has no impact on -meego- proper, since it's a hardware specific question at that point. Maemo, however...	03:03
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luke-jr	microlith: Maemo has always been a closed platform	03:05
Stskeeps	ofono already works on n900, fwiw	03:10
Stskeeps	:P	03:10
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Stskeeps	we made a call (without audio, didnt have proper audio in kernel), so	03:11
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SpeedEvil	does data work?	03:12
Stskeeps	didn't check	03:14
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Noma	is there now a proper solution to make maemo and meego dualboot?	03:15
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luke-jr	Stskeeps: without pulseaudio? :p	03:15
Stskeeps	luke-jr: i said no audio, but to my knowledge pulseaudio plugins exist for this purpose, not so much alsa :P	03:15
luke-jr	Stskeeps: Kopete?	03:16
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FIQ	What's the keymap code for & and %?	03:21
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Shapeshifter	ampersand and percent?	03:33
Shapeshifter	or what do you mean.	03:33
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FIQ	spapeshifter, thanks	03:42
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FIQ	and btw	03:49
FIQ	why does holding shift+fn and click z/x or j/k giving both of them's fn-char	03:49
FIQ	?	03:49
FIQ	i mean, in same time - two chars get output	03:50
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PhonicUK	anyone around got mupen64 installed on their N900?	04:08
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SpeedEvil	FIQ: hardware limit IIRC	04:10
FIQ	ok	04:10
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SpeedEvil	in that shift-fn-z also connects shift-fn-y - indirectly through the switches in series	04:12
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pigeon	hmm, on the n900 can i search my contacts by a number?	04:48
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GeneralAntilles	lbt, a bit.	05:12
GeneralAntilles	lbt, we had a few new wiki pages	05:12
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Termana	good morning	05:12
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GeneralAntilles	Lionbridge is working on some stuff.	05:13
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DocScrutinizer	(<FIQ> why does holding shift+fn and click z/x or j/k giving both of them's fn-char) that's because of Nokia EE fsckd it up with building a decent hw matrix for kbd, with dedicated "wires" for all qualifier keys. So keeping pressed shift+Fn shorts the matrix in a way you can't distinguish between z/x or j/k, so the driver thinks both are pressed while in fact you just press j OR k	08:14
jaem	Interesting...	08:15
jaem	Did you determine that by deduction, or otherwise?	08:15
jaem	I mean, it makes sense, but I'm curious.	08:15
DocScrutinizer	same problem with ctrl+shift, or ctrl+Fn, just other keypairs that get shorted	08:15
DocScrutinizer	I looked on the schematics	08:15
jaem	DocScrutinizer, Oh, in that service manual that's floating around?	08:16
* jaem meant to look through that		08:16
DocScrutinizer	the worst thing: Nokia had a couple of unused matrix inputs unused, which they could have assigned exclusively to the qualifier keys, at no additional cost	08:17
jaem	facepalm	08:17
DocScrutinizer	oops, -1*unused	08:18
Macer	hinet.net needs to die	08:18
DocScrutinizer	need coffee	08:18
Macer	do actual people use hinet.net?	08:18
Macer	or is it just a cesspool of asian spam ?	08:18
DocScrutinizer	jaem: the chip has 8*8 matrix. Go figure	08:19
DocScrutinizer	jaem: and they couldn't manage to give a separate row or col line to those 3 qualifier keys	08:20
arachnist	Macer: hinet.net has no A record	08:20
DocScrutinizer	would have left them with 5*8 for the remaining, err 30?	08:20
arachnist	Macer: nor CNAME for that matter	08:20
Macer	arachnist: go figure	08:22
Macer	heh... they have like a ton of subnets	08:22
Macer	i don't think they have the A record because people would block the entire domain so they probably found a way around it	08:22
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kerio	luke-jr: use DNS tunnelling	08:26
luke-jr	kerio: less efficient :)	08:27
luke-jr	kerio: but I plan to, for regular IP	08:27
luke-jr	nstx doesn't work though	08:27
luke-jr	T-Mobile blocks TXT replies	08:27
kerio	oh	08:27
kerio	:(	08:27
kerio	well, you need to encode IP addresses then	08:28
luke-jr	yeah	08:28
luke-jr	which has very limited bandwidth	08:28
kerio	heh	08:28
luke-jr	depending on how many A records I can return	08:28
kerio	wait, what's tmob's ipv6 support?	08:28
DocScrutinizer	I mean I'm not talking about spending 0.20$ for some 35 diodes to get real N-key rollover. Just a simple different layout and circuit. an additional trace on the PCB. Delta-BOM == 0.00$	08:28
luke-jr	kerio: no idea, I'm building this with the assumption that I don't have data service	08:28
luke-jr	(still plan to get data service, but doing this first is more fun)	08:29
luke-jr	hmm	08:29
luke-jr	iff I can return 256 A records per query, that gives me 768 MTU	08:29
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luke-jr	if only 16 A records per reply, 56 bytes :/	08:31
luke-jr	which complicates things since that's mostly header	08:31
kerio	use CNAME records	08:32
luke-jr	kerio: ah, right	08:32
luke-jr	that was my plan, I forgot it XD	08:32
DocScrutinizer	moo hax0rs ;-P	08:32
kerio	µ	08:32
luke-jr	assume T-Mobile doesn't try to resolve the CNAME and return the A it resolves to	08:32
luke-jr	but I'll find out soon enough	08:33
luke-jr	installing Gentoo in a chroot so I can use dig	08:33
luke-jr	:)	08:33
DocScrutinizer	you're aware jebba had created a rather complete debian build repo for native maemo?	08:34
luke-jr	but I want Gentoo, not Debian	08:34
luke-jr	:)	08:34
kerio	isn't there dig in easy debian?	08:34
arachnist	who cares about debian? ;P	08:34
luke-jr	Debian isn't optimized for a handheld	08:34
DocScrutinizer	aah so gentoo is?	08:34
arachnist	luke-jr: sicko... but i do have an arm device running gentoo (though it's not the N900)	08:35
DocScrutinizer	tbh I give a shit for a handheld-optimized dig executable	08:35
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: Gentoo is a meta-distribution; it is optimized for whatever you want	08:35
luke-jr	arachnist: my N810 is Gentoo-only	08:35
arachnist	nice	08:35
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: obviously it's not just for dig	08:36
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: aren't you oversimplifying? just a itsy tiny lil bit?	08:36
Termana	DocScrutinizer, grab the van. We're going in to arrest these Gentoo punks	08:36
DocScrutinizer	lol	08:36
* arachnist recompiles Termana on his openrd-client		08:36
MohammadAG51	kerio, i have dig compiled and packaged as "dig"	08:36
DocScrutinizer	~gentoo luke-jr	08:36
WormFood	luke-jr, are you trying to tunnel traffic through dns on your own, or use existing tools?	08:36
MohammadAG51	for maemo	08:36
* infobot recompiles luke-jr again		08:36
kerio	~botsnack	08:37
infobot	kerio: thanks	08:37
luke-jr	WormFood: the existing tools are blocked	08:37
WormFood	you tried iodine?	08:37
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: honestly, I didn't look for dig :)	08:37
MohammadAG51	you'd expect iputils	08:37
luke-jr	it was tcpdump and a few others that made me give up on standard *nix tools in Maemo	08:37
luke-jr	yeah, iproute2	08:37
kerio	~botsnack	08:38
infobot	:), kerio	08:38
MohammadAG51	but busybox is too fucked up to allow iputils to install	08:38
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: iputils is distinct from iproute2?	08:38
luke-jr	my router (with Busybox) has iproute2...	08:38
MohammadAG51	not sure what iproute2 is, but iputils* has all net binaries in ubuntu	08:38
MohammadAG51	so i packaged that	08:38
luke-jr	iproute2 is the 'ip' command	08:38
MohammadAG51	oh, then yeah, it's not the same	08:39
WormFood	I installed my N800 OS to my flash (sd) card, and I didn't have to make any partitions, like all the instructions tell you to do....but, i'm not able to activate a swap file through the GUI (should be able to it on the command line)	08:39
jaem	Oh hai, WormFood	08:40
WormFood	hi jaem	08:40
luke-jr	I don't get why Maemo 5 still uses all the obsolete *nix tools	08:40
luke-jr	ifconfig, route, apt, etc	08:40
jaem	Doesn't the GUI make a swapfile, rather than a partition?	08:40
MohammadAG51	hey, it's maemo!	08:40
luke-jr	lol	08:40
WormFood	it does not make a partition, it uses a swap file	08:40
MohammadAG51	apt isn't obsolete	08:40
WormFood	but either way, it won't do it with the way I installed it.	08:40
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: has been in Debian for years at least	08:41
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: aptitude has replaced it	08:41
MohammadAG51	luke-jr, i compiled aptitude	08:41
jaem	WormFood, that's what I was asking. I'm not sure about the N800, but IIRC the N810 stores the swap file on one of the cards (internal)	08:41
MohammadAG51	but it's kinda borked (libcwidget is actually)	08:41
jaem	Could it be that your setup is just confusing it? -shrug-	08:41
luke-jr	jaem: N810 doesn't have swap by default at all	08:41
jaem	luke-jr, I know, but you can create one automagically	08:41
jaem	in the settings dialog that WormFood was talking about.	08:42
luke-jr	o rly?	08:42
luke-jr	oh well	08:42
luke-jr	I just finished moving my N900 swap to MicroSD	08:42
MohammadAG51	luke-jr, imho, aptitude isn't all that great	08:42
MohammadAG51	it's a bit confusing tbh	08:42
luke-jr	which is faster, and replacable	08:42
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: aptitude uses all the same commands as apt, except you don't have to guess at which apt-* prefix to use	08:43
MohammadAG51	luke-jr, oh, only tried the UI part of it	08:43
luke-jr	oh top of that, aptitude tracks dependencies correctly	08:43
luke-jr	when removing packages	08:43
Termana	on top*	08:44
MohammadAG51	luke-jr, then install it :)	08:44
MohammadAG51	it works, the UI is what's broken	08:44
MohammadAG51	package name is aptitude	08:44
jaem	luke-jr, which class is your card?	08:45
jaem	And are there specs for the eMMC posted somewhere?	08:45
luke-jr	jaem: dunno	08:45
luke-jr	I used sync; dd; sync to test them	08:45
jaem	Heh, that works, I guess.	08:45
jaem	Class 6 8GB cards were expensive when I bought mine, and I wasn't sure how a Class 4 card would compare.	08:45
luke-jr	well, N900 only has 2 GB card	08:46
luke-jr	I put 1 GB to swap, and 1 GB to /var/tmp/portage	08:46
luke-jr	I figure those are the most often changing parts	08:46
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luke-jr	MohammadAG51: Package aptitude is not available, but is referred to by another package.	08:50
MohammadAG51	luke-jr, devel enabled?	08:51
luke-jr	wtf? :)	08:51
MohammadAG51	LOL what?! Reinstallation of aptitude is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.	08:51
luke-jr	fail	08:51
MohammadAG51	not really	08:52
MohammadAG51	someone took it down	08:52
luke-jr	someone complained it didn't work, so removed it?	08:52
luke-jr	:p	08:52
MohammadAG51	-devel doesn't work that way	08:52
MohammadAG51	luke-jr, lol http://maemo.org/packages/view/aptitude/	08:52
luke-jr	?	08:53
luke-jr	too lazy to open browser	08:53
MohammadAG51	it's there	08:53
luke-jr	o	08:53
MohammadAG51	http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/a/aptitude/aptitude_0.4.11.11-1maemo3_armel.deb	08:53
MohammadAG51	need to ping X-Fade about this	08:54
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: any way to actually install from a .deb with apt?	08:55
MohammadAG51	not that I know of	08:55
MohammadAG51	dpkg -i it	08:55
MohammadAG51	then apt-get -f install	08:56
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Macer	luke-jr: putting gentoo on the n900? :)	09:06
Macer	let me know how that works out	09:06
Macer	heh	09:06
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: wtf?	09:06
MohammadAG51	luke-jr, what?	09:06
luke-jr	dpkg -i obviously says deps not met	09:06
MohammadAG51	apt-get -f install after it	09:07
luke-jr	...	09:07
MohammadAG51	apt newbie	09:07
luke-jr	dpkg -i obviously says deps not met	09:07
MohammadAG51	ok, so?	09:07
MohammadAG51	apt-get -f install	09:07
luke-jr	so why run it at all	09:07
MohammadAG51	to solve deps...	09:07
MohammadAG51	duh	09:07
luke-jr	...	09:07
luke-jr	o	09:07
luke-jr	dpkg installs even after saying no deps?	09:07
MohammadAG51	luke-jr, n00b!!!	09:07
MohammadAG51	yes	09:07
luke-jr	i c	09:08
MohammadAG51	it stops installation @ postinst file	09:08
MohammadAG51	unpacking is actually done	09:08
MohammadAG51	so you have aptitude now, but it might not work	09:08
luke-jr	aptitude: Depends: libcwidget3 but it is not installable	09:08
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MohammadAG51	sec...	09:09
MohammadAG51	wtf http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/c/cwidget/libcwidget3_0.5.13-1maemo1_armel.deb	09:09
MohammadAG51	why is it broken like this	09:10
luke-jr	cuz I don't have extras-devel	09:11
MohammadAG51	facepalm	09:11
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MohammadAG51	oh tower bloxx is on the store	09:18
dr34m	hm i think my battery died. phone wont charge nor start. orange lamp is only lit when i connect the charger.. anybody had that before ?	09:19
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kerio	dr34m: wait until the led stops being orange	09:21
kerio	it's the failsafe charging mode	09:21
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Macer	heh.	09:26
Macer	so has android gotten on the n900 yet?	09:26
pupnik_	yes, no. buckets and lollipops.	09:26
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Macer	http://maemoarena.com/2010/05/nokia-n900-running-android-2-1/	09:28
MohammadAG51	2.1? meh	09:28
MohammadAG51	it runs 2.2	09:28
MohammadAG51	#nitdroid	09:28
Macer	awesome thanks	09:28
arachnist	but phonet still isn't supported, right?	09:28
MohammadAG51	nope, they got data (3G) for 30 minutes	09:29
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luke-jr	what is trackerd?	09:34
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ShadowJK	It indexes your files	09:35
luke-jr	lame	09:35
ShadowJK	thumbnails your pictures	09:35
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luke-jr	so just how bad is this "one network connection" limitation?	09:36
luke-jr	can I do 3G + USBnet?	09:36
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Macer	one network connection limitation?	09:39
Macer	i just stopped wifi tethering	09:39
luke-jr	Macer: I asked earlier about doing wifi + 3G at the same time...	09:39
Macer	isnt that more than 1 networ?	09:39
Termana	arachnist, not totally yet	09:39
luke-jr	Macer: I was told it isn't possible	09:39
Appiah	it's possible , just not by the gui's in maemo	09:40
luke-jr	GAN900 said it was a kernel limitation	09:40
Appiah	(thats one I been told)	09:40
Termana	arachnist, getting signal indications. No Data/Calls yet though.	09:40
Macer	luke-jr: then install a new kernel	09:40
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Macer	:)	09:40
luke-jr	-.-	09:40
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Macer	isnt there an advanced kernel on the repos?	09:40
luke-jr	yeah	09:40
luke-jr	and I've heard rumours of kernels that automatically overclock	09:41
Termana	Macer, its more to do with the kernel version rather than Nokia's specific build - AFAIK	09:41
luke-jr	which I dont' want to risk doing	09:41
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Macer	oc your n900 to 1GHz	09:41
Termana	Kill your n900, slowly	09:41
Macer	haha	09:41
Macer	the one on the repo doesnt automatically do it	09:41
Macer	you have to do it manually and save it if you want to keep running it like that	09:42
Macer	Termana: it will be obsolete in a year or so anyways	09:42
Termana	Are you kidding? Its probably "obsolete" now	09:42
ShadowJK	There's nothing to replace it :(	09:43
ShadowJK	(that doesn't require months of hacking)	09:43
Termana	ShadowJK, you can not like cars and roam the streets on horses, but that doesn't mean that form of transportation isn't obsolete.	09:45
Macer	yeah. nitdroid isnt worth it	09:46
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ShadowJK	termana: sure but I can stick with my present car that has round wheels and a steering wheel	09:47
ShadowJK	as everything else has hexagonal wheels and and a big lever instead of steering wheel :(	09:48
jaem	ShadowJK, isn't the round wheel patented, though? :P	09:48
Macer	whats wrong with a hexagonal steering wheel?	09:48
ShadowJK	no the wheels	09:49
Macer	the n900 has a lot of kick to it left	09:49
Macer	i just got rid og my g1 today	09:49
Termana	I hate to break it to everyone, but the general consumer market has obsoleted most things the n900 has. QWERTY keyboards are mostly gone, resistive screens are the past, capacitive is "in". Hell, even Nokia is going this direction.	09:49
Macer	of	09:49
Macer	Termana: the qwerty is a matter of choice	09:50
jaem	Termana, changed direction != obseleted.	09:50
Macer	i will never get a phone without one	09:50
jaem	Termana, the touch panel is also a matter of choice	09:50
Macer	i HATE on screen kbs	09:50
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Termana	jaem, what major manufacture is still producing phones with resistive touch?	09:50
Termana	Nokia is the only one I can think of ATM	09:50
jaem	Termana, that wasn't my point.	09:50
lcukn900	portrait n900 needs vkb	09:50
jaem	My point was that it isn't an inferior technology merely because few products use it.	09:51
Macer	n900 needs portrait first :-P	09:51
jaem	At least, not necessarily.	09:51
ShadowJK	any new device would absolutely have to have qwerty, and if it was capacitive it would have to quadruple hw specs before I considered giving up resistive :)	09:51
lcukn900	even with real one there are usecases for not having one as well	09:51
Termana	jaem, if there is no choice, then it isn't a matter of choice is it - because you have none	09:51
Macer	opera has a nice vkb on the n900	09:51
* jaem glares at Termana		09:51
ShadowJK	My sister bought a samsung with resistive touchscreen last month btw	09:51
lcukn900	yeah macer	09:51
ShadowJK	not that it makes a difference on that particular phone :)	09:52
Macer	haha	09:52
DocScrutinizer51	c-ts is the solution for poorly designed r-ts	09:52
jaem	Termana, They both have strengths and weaknesses. I prefer one over the other - therefore if I can't get a phone with the one I like, I'm disappointed. That's really all there is to it. I'm not trying to pick a fight.	09:52
Macer	all that i know is that i will never own a phone without a hw qwerty ever again	09:52
* lcukn900 likes sliding on baconfat - on capacitive touch liqbase is niiiiice but i cant write notes		09:53
DocScrutinizer51	in fact c-ts is inferior to r-ts in almost all aspects	09:53
Macer	EVER	09:53
jaem	lcukn900, good point.	09:53
Termana	jaem, who said anything about fighting? I'm just having a mutual discussion. And I think your assuming I like capacitive over resistive.	09:53
luke-jr	Macer: QWERTY is useless for phones	09:53
Macer	luke-jr: works fine for me :)	09:53
arachnist	but phones are not just phones anymore	09:53
jaem	Termana, sorry, you just came across a bit forceful. No offense meant. ;)	09:53
luke-jr	Macer: there is no need to ever type letters on a phone	09:53
ShadowJK	I wouldn't feel much of a loss if N900 didn't do voice calls ;)	09:54
lcukn900	txtmsg	09:54
Macer	is this sarcasm? ;)	09:54
jaem	luke-jr, How do you recompile your kernel without letters?	09:54
luke-jr	lcukn900: then it's not a phone :)	09:54
Termana	jaem, sorry don't mean to seem forceful :)	09:54
Macer	no typing!	09:54
arachnist	luke-jr: xterm + ssh + irssi on my N900 happen to disagree	09:54
arachnist	:>	09:54
luke-jr	arachnist: N900 isn't a phone	09:54
jaem	luke-jr, it "has a" phone...	09:54
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lcukn900	luke-jr stop being a git. telephones should have wires and circle dialer	09:54
Macer	hahahaha	09:54
Macer	lcukn900: agreed	09:54
ShadowJK	phone feature can be made very simple: you just need one button, "Hang up". Saves your time, too :)	09:54
luke-jr	jaem: sure, but I don't see QWERTY in the phone app :D	09:55
jaem	lcukn900, what you're looking for is this, then: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=286	09:55
luke-jr	ShadowJK: seriously, I recently saw a phone with nothing but digits and maybe a hangup button	09:55
luke-jr	and I think a LED display for caller id	09:55
luke-jr	and yes, it was a cell phone	09:55
luke-jr	not even volume controls tho	09:55
lcukn900	jaem i am in the middle of nowhere with analog 1g phone reception	09:55
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luke-jr	1G supports data?	09:55
Macer	luke-jr: there are letters on the numbers	09:56
Macer	:)	09:56
lcukn900	i aint opening weblinks	09:56
lcukn900	lol	09:56
lcukn900	its almost smoke signals	09:56
lcukn900	lag is measured in days	09:56
yigal	anyone dig into using cell writer on n900?	09:56
luke-jr	what was pre-1G called? :P	09:56
luke-jr	besides "analog"	09:56
arachnist	except that smoke signals are more reliable	09:56
lcukn900	yes yigal	09:56
yigal	how is it going?	09:56
ShadowJK	luke-jr, it wasn't standardized	09:56
jaem	lcukn900, Ah. The link was to a hobbyist electronics company that sells real classic glossy red/black rotary telephones, retrofitted with battery+cell.	09:56
lcukn900	yigal search	09:56
jaem	They still use the original dialer and ringer. :P	09:56
lcukn900	lolcool	09:56
ShadowJK	but .fi has ARP and then NMT	09:56
luke-jr	ShadowJK: neither were 2G or 3G	09:56
ShadowJK	had*	09:57
yigal	lcukn900: I have, I've looked at several youtube videos with it in action	09:57
lcukn900	then install it and see	09:57
lcukn900	for yourself	09:57
yigal	I feel that	09:57
yigal	:D	09:57
lcukn900	i have a grand total of 4 batteries with me	09:58
yigal	jeez	09:58
lcukn900	no power anywhere	09:58
yigal	I should get at least another one	09:58
MohammadAG51	3 here	09:58
yigal	really	09:58
yigal	wow	09:58
lcukn900	i have 2 n900s tho	09:58
MohammadAG51	1	09:58
yigal	wow!	09:58
MohammadAG51	xD	09:58
Macer	what else is using omap?	09:58
jaem	lcukn900, lol. Yeah, I was doing that for a while too.	09:58
* luke-jr was surprised to find his mother-in-law's laptop couldn't charge his N900 when he visited...		09:58
* ShadowJK has the original battery, and 2400mAh mugen battery :D		09:58
jaem	"aw snap, my battery's dead. Oh well... pull out the other one."	09:59
luke-jr	luckily I had my netbook in the car, which charges it fine...	09:59
lcukn900	jaem doing what?	09:59
MohammadAG51	Ffs	09:59
MohammadAG51	FFS*	09:59
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jaem	lcukn900, carrying backup N900s	09:59
kerio	ShadowJK: did you buy a usb dongle to do the hotswap?	09:59
ShadowJK	luke-jr, windows usb drivers are a bit fucked, they often decline request for power for no reason	09:59
jaem	Sadly I have less to play with these days. I do have a 5800XM, but I haven't had time to work with it much.	09:59
ShadowJK	kerio, no	09:59
lcukn900	lol jaem they arent backups like that	10:00
Macer	jaem: you never know when you need to use 2 death rays	10:00
luke-jr	ShadowJK: I didn't install any drivers.	10:00
ShadowJK	kerio, and where can you buy that	10:00
jaem	Macer, O_o	10:00
lcukn900	im testing adhoc stuff later	10:00
luke-jr	ShadowJK: USB doesn't provide power otherwise?	10:00
lcukn900	we are going in caves	10:00
jaem	Macer, is that in -devel?	10:00
Macer	things get hairy at debconf	10:00
lcukn900	no cloud	10:00
jaem	lcukn900, whereabouts are you?	10:00
Macer	jaem: no. easter egg	10:00
ShadowJK	luke-jr, the N900 requests 500mA from the windows usb stack, windows usb stack says NO	10:00
jaem	Macer, Aren't there liability concerns?	10:00
Macer	jaem: no. easter egg	10:00
Macer	go to pkg manager and add death ray as a repo then cancel	10:00
Macer	jaem: they added a disclaimer	10:01
yigal	feel that	10:01
kerio	Macer: or just apt-get lasercow	10:01
ShadowJK	Linux USB stack has more of a "Yeah fine, whatever" to power management :)	10:01
yigal	apt-get install starwars	10:01
lcukn900	jaem lake district. north england	10:01
Macer	kerio: sure. take the easy apt route	10:01
yigal	apt-get install hbomb	10:02
kerio	yigal: i'm thinking about a way to do that	10:02
Macer	yigal: they took that off the repos	10:02
Macer	said phones that have it are Nphones of concern"	10:02
yigal	I thought it was in devel	10:02
kerio	so far it's overpower the battery, overclock the cpu, start flashing the led and put loud white noise on the speakers	10:02
ian_r	morning all	10:03
Macer	kerio: that would be awesome	10:03
kerio	no explosions though :(	10:03
Jaffa	Morning, all	10:03
yigal	owell, at least I don't need to reflash the n900	10:03
jaem	Jaffa, Happy Weekend!	10:03
Jaffa	jaem: You too!	10:03
Macer	kerio: ever break into a friends car and turn the radio on full blast and the blinkers and the window wipers then turn it off and wait for the fun?	10:04
kerio	Macer: oh god are you watching me	10:05
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Macer	:)	10:05
kerio	GET OUT OF MY HEAD	10:05
Macer	the app to do that remotely is on devel too	10:05
Macer	just stay away from the exploding gas tank option	10:06
yigal	ough "Who Am I" by "Snoop Dogg" on "The Very Best Of Deathrow (Explicit)"	10:07
lcukn900	n900@works when wet. screen is watery rained on	10:07
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Macer	well. i guess i have to wait for tomorrows zimbra daily report to see if my constructive iptables rules have managed to block all of hinet.net	10:07
Macer	lcukn900: yeah.. but does it work submerged?	10:07
Macer	i think not	10:07
lcukn900	no!	10:07
MohammadAG51	damn compressing shit takes time	10:08
Macer	real phones work underwater	10:08
MohammadAG51	what's an imx51?	10:08
lcukn900	no they dont old ones have paper speakers etc	10:08
MohammadAG51	beagleboard?	10:08
RST38h	Mooo, punks	10:09
lcukn900	yo rst	10:09
RST38h	lcuk: How is suffering this weekend? =)	10:09
MohammadAG51	--exclude in tar is borked lol	10:10
lcukn900	suffering what	10:10
RST38h	life!	10:10
lcukn900	im sat in cold damp rain cos my tent leaked and its dryer in the rain sat up than laywn	10:10
RST38h	Shit, that is not suffering	10:11
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RST38h	It is +30oC here with no rain and nowhere to run	10:11
lcukn900	ahhh bad	10:12
lcukn900	swap?	10:12
RST38h	Yea, any time	10:12
lcukn900	heh	10:12
RST38h	(at least as long as you have got cold rain there)	10:12
lcukn900	you have extreme winters	10:12
RST38h	Not really	10:12
RST38h	2 weeks a -30 is not extreme	10:13
RST38h	And it is -5..-15 for the rest of the winter	10:13
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lcukn900	sure its the 49 weeks at -29 that get ya. summer is one week of +30	10:13
mneptok	pffft .... 30C is not hot. and define "no rain."	10:13
ian_r	lcukn900, i saw your conversation with GA about maemo theming bugs in the logs the other day, and you were asking why bugs weren't filed long ago. in fact they were. check out maemo bug 3659, for example.	10:14
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3659 Changing icon theme requires reboot to be applied correctly	10:14
jaem	mneptok, #define NO_RAIN	10:14
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jaem	mneptok, happy?	10:14
RST38h	lcuk: Summers are pretty regular here	10:14
lcukn900	ian_r thanks for digging. i cannot see web stuff now	10:14
mneptok	jaem: no, what's that underscore? escape the space like i asked. ;)	10:14
jaem	mneptok, -grin-	10:14
lcukn900	but can you mail link to liquid@gmail please	10:15
RST38h	moo, slonopotamus	10:15
lcukn900	ill check when i get back	10:15
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ian_r	heh np lcukn900. i didn't actually have to dig for it cause i just had it reopened yesterday :/	10:16
jaem	Is Remote Debugging from QtCreator to the N900 borked, or am I just Doing it Wrong?	10:16
DocScrutinizer51	RST38h: relgular summer every year? ;-P	10:16
RST38h	Doc: yeah more or less	10:17
slonopotamus	RST38h: morn	10:17
lcukn900	ian_r good for you, thanks i think	10:17
RST38h	jaem: <AVOID>	10:17
lcukn900	if its a problem it needs sorting :p	10:17
jaem	RST38h, Is there any sane way to debug programs, then, short of GDB on-device in the terminal?	10:17
lcukn900	gdb on device is fine	10:18
RST38h	jaem: printf()s to the ssh session	10:18
jaem	RST38h, yes, but I meant interactive debugging.	10:18
RST38h	lcuk is right, gdb on device is ok, if you can stand gdb	10:18
* lcukn900 has many many printfs		10:18
RST38h	jaem: No.	10:18
DocScrutinizer51	anybody ever used kgdb?	10:18
* RST38h tried, still sucks		10:18
jaem	DocScrutinizer51, I read that as kgb...	10:18
RST38h	Doc: There is also Nemiver	10:19
jaem	lcukn900, RST38h, The problem is that I need interactive debugging, and I need the controls/log on a separate screen.	10:19
RST38h	Doc: I used it a few times, seems to be the most comfortable of gdb shells	10:19
DocScrutinizer51	err kdbg?	10:19
lcukn900	jaem ssh	10:19
lcukn900	?	10:19
jaem	lcukn900, yeah, I was hoping to avoid that...	10:19
RST38h	jaem: I also need a few things. Does not mean I am gonna get them.	10:19
lcukn900	ok	10:19
jaem	RST38h, exactly	10:19
ShadowJK	jaem: gdb on device, displayed on a 26" monitor attached to your pc, using ssh	10:20
jaem	RST38h, I wasn't complaining, just clarifying	10:20
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yigal	:D"Harlem Streets" by "Immortal Technique" on "Revolutionary Vol.2 (Explicit)"	10:20
jaem	ShadowJK, Yes, I will probably have to, but I was hoping to not have to deal with GDB in the command line.	10:20
jaem	Ah well	10:20
DocScrutinizer51	RST38h: how to debug kernel on arm?	10:20
RST38h	jaem: Try Nemiver	10:20
RST38h	jaem: It appears to allow connections to remote targets	10:20
lcukn900	i want a cig. i can see them but i cant get em	10:20
ShadowJK	lots of printf	10:20
jaem	Sorry, though, are you all saying that debugging in Creator /is/ broken, or just suggesting alternatives?	10:20
RST38h	Doc: kprintf()? :)	10:21
* lcukn900 goes grabbing keys		10:21
DocScrutinizer51	ShadowJK: yeah. hate that	10:21
yigal	printf?	10:21
RST38h	jaem: We are all saying that debugging with gdb is pain	10:21
lcukn900	jaem wasnt thinking qt	10:21
jaem	Yeah, I got that, thanks. -_-	10:21
RST38h	jaem: And there is no other debugging for n900	10:21
jaem	Alrighty, then.	10:21
RST38h	jaem: So, if you can find a decent gdb shell for your desktop and connect it to the n900, you should be ok	10:21
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lcukn900	mm	10:21
jaem	Okay, great.	10:21
RST38h	jaem: So far, Nemiver looks like the least painful gdb shell	10:22
RST38h	But your mileage may vary	10:22
lcukn900	what does qt sdk use for debugging	10:22
jaem	lcukn900, it has options to remotely debug using gdb on the phone, I believe.	10:22
DocScrutinizer51	err, segv?	10:22
RST38h	lcuk: Same gdb, just with some crap on top	10:22
jaem	In some fashion... I'm not familiar with GDB much yet.	10:22
lcukn900	ok cool	10:23
jaem	lcukn900, problem is, it doesn't seem to work for me. I've heard rumblings from a while back that it doesn't work at all, but I don't know if that is/was true, or if I am just missing something.	10:23
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jaem	Hence my original question.	10:23
RST38h	remote debugging is difficult to set up	10:24
RST38h	so, for people who couldn't do it, it does not work.	10:24
RST38h	at all, yes :)	10:24
lcukn900	strangely windows mobile had it	10:24
DocScrutinizer51	but cool when it works	10:24
lcukn900	does iphone or android do it	10:24
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RST38h	lcuk: WinMo has special facilities in the Visual Studio	10:24
lcukn900	yes	10:25
RST38h	lcuk: Microsoft took care that debugging WinMo apps feels about the same in Visual Studio	10:25
jaem	Sigh... sorry, but at this time of night, I'm just getting confused. Could one person answer my original question with no cynicism or veiled humour, please? >_<	10:25
jaem	(y/n):	10:25
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* DocScrutinizer51 muses about a userland kernel to debug that one friggin driver		10:25
RST38h	NO. Go sleep now.	10:26
jaem	RST38h, okay, thanks. Don't mind me - I've just had a long day. :)	10:26
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, which driver?	10:27
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DocScrutinizer51	ShadowJK: guess! ;-)	10:27
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ShadowJK	I can't think of anything sensible you'd be doing in kernel :)	10:29
DocScrutinizer51	ShadowJK: starts with M like mentorgrafix	10:29
ShadowJK	oh, usb	10:29
* ShadowJK had entirely forgotten usb host :-)		10:30
RST38h	usb can be done in userland, can't it?	10:30
ShadowJK	not this	10:30
ShadowJK	The usb stack has interface for userland to talk with usb devices, but that of course depends on functioning kernelside drivers	10:31
ShadowJK	And re hostmode, talking to usb devices isn't the issue, talking to the usb controller and convincing it to do things	10:32
Izzeh	anyone know how to fix TV out not working?	10:32
Izzeh	had it going 3 days ago... and just getting black screen with sound on 4 different TVs and 2 different cables	10:32
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DocScrutinizer51	rtfm	10:33
lcukn900	:( tv out	10:33
ShadowJK	maybe it broke	10:33
lcukn900	2 devices and both failed. bah	10:33
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lcukn900	then they work on all different times	10:34
DocScrutinizer51	works like a charm here	10:34
lcukn900	does for me now	10:35
lcukn900	bbl	10:35
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Izzeh	bah many others have posted same issue.. but only response that some have given was "hit it" x.x	10:35
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DocScrutinizer51	just audio is WAY too low	10:36
DocScrutinizer51	Izzeh: there are some notes about sequence how to connect it, in maual. That's why I said RTFM	10:37
DocScrutinizer51	it's a diff if you first plug to TV or first to N900	10:37
Izzeh	tried both ways.. on 4 different TVs	10:38
Izzeh	one I bought a week a go and a 23 year old 100kg job	10:38
Izzeh	=/	10:38
DocScrutinizer51	I guess when you got a crapy TV you first need to plug cable to N900	10:38
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DocScrutinizer51	of course you need correct PAL/NTSC setting on N900. And correct input selection for TV	10:40
Izzeh	got that	10:42
DocScrutinizer51	and you need to use correct plugs on TV ;-)	10:42
Izzeh	it was working 3 days ago, not to mention I've been doing it for 6 months now	10:42
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DocScrutinizer51	so it brole all of a sudden from a known good setup?	10:43
DocScrutinizer51	broke	10:43
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Izzeh	yep	10:43
Izzeh	I reflashed since then	10:43
Izzeh	lol =/	10:43
DocScrutinizer51	hw-defect	10:43
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Izzeh	yeah I'm not so quick to jump at that	10:43
Izzeh	given several others that have experienced it have had it work later	10:43
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DocScrutinizer51	check headset microphone and button work ok	10:44
DocScrutinizer51	same contacts on AV	10:44
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DocScrutinizer51	AV receptacle is known to have contact issues occasionally	10:45
Izzeh	recognizes headset	10:45
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Izzeh	I can't recall.. does it have an icon in status bar with tv out? (even the headphone one?)	10:45
DocScrutinizer51	mic operation?	10:45
dr34m	kerio: still there? i waited now for about an hour or smth and the orange light went off.. phone wont start still tho damnit looks like dead :(	10:45
DocScrutinizer51	none	10:46
RST38h	Anyone else noticed that the green device-charged light overrides whatever email/im notifications you have got?	10:46
RST38h	so, when the device is plugged into the charger, you cannot see notifications?	10:46
DocScrutinizer51	RST38h: check prio of patterns in mce.ini	10:47
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Izzeh	alright yeah.. mic is working	10:48
DocScrutinizer51	got no notification so can't check now.and I usually keep device on when on charger	10:48
Izzeh	I actually have it in my head that this has happened before.. and solved itself.. but I can't be certain	10:48
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DocScrutinizer51	Izzeh: double check you plugged the yellow RCA jack to video in on TV	10:50
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Izzeh	lol I did.. several times	10:52
DocScrutinizer51	Izzeh: reboot. some fb daemon or video hw might've gone apeshit	10:52
Izzeh	all 4 TVs detect it.. but it only shows black screen	10:52
Izzeh	done it :'(	10:52
Izzeh	and pulled battery for 5 mins	10:52
Izzeh	and blew in the hole	10:52
Izzeh	and hit it	10:52
Izzeh	=x	10:52
DocScrutinizer51	hw-defect	10:52
DocScrutinizer51	I know there's some kinky problems with the FPC connector that runs to screen (yes!) so TV out breaks	10:54
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DocScrutinizer51	had that. though mine had both screen AND TV out broken / garbled / gray	10:54
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DocScrutinizer51	somehow LVD-output to LCD is connected to TV out	10:55
DocScrutinizer51	Izzeh: try opening/closing slider	10:55
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Izzeh	alright she ain't working	11:02
Izzeh	I'll leave it a few days and hope it fixes itself	11:03
Izzeh	:P	11:03
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MohammadAG51	umm	11:06
MohammadAG51	why is my rootfs read only o_O	11:06
MohammadAG51	brb, i hope	11:07
arachnist	MohammadAG51: i'd look in dmesg \| tail first	11:07
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DocScrutinizer	mhm, MohammadAG51 still alive :-D	11:12
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RST38h	Doc: Ok	11:16
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DocScrutinizer51	RST38h: ok what?	11:18
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MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer51, still alive, still alive, still alive, runs portal	11:19
DocScrutinizer51	lol	11:19
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer51, sup?	11:20
DocScrutinizer51	mount -o remount,rw ?	11:20
MohammadAG51	oh, lol, rebooted and checked kernel messages, it fsck'd /	11:21
slonopotamus	fskd'd up? :)	11:21
RST38h	Doc: The pattern priorities	11:22
MohammadAG51	~fsck	11:22
infobot	No devices specified to be checked!	11:22
MohammadAG51	o.o	11:22
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MohammadAG51	~fsck RST38h	11:22
arachnist	~fsck /dev/thor/root	11:22
RST38h	Doc: I am checking mce.ini here. It clearly says that chargin/charged patterns have lower priority than messaging stuff	11:22
infobot	e2fsck /dev/RST38h : warning! filesystem contains dickheads!	11:22
infobot	e2fsck /dev//dev/thor/root : warning! filesystem contains idiots!	11:22
arachnist	lol	11:22
slonopotamus	:D	11:22
MohammadAG51	[39721.299407] EXT3-fs warning (device mmcblk1p2): ext3_clear_journal_err: Filesystem error recorded from previous mount: IO failure	11:23
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slonopotamus	~fsck /dev/sda	11:23
infobot	e2fsck /dev//dev/sda : warning! filesystem contains helpdesk workers!	11:23
RST38h	Doc: Yet, they appear to override messaging patterns	11:23
arachnist	~fsck sda1	11:23
infobot	e2fsck /dev/sda1 : warning! filesystem contains dumbasses!	11:23
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Macer	haha	11:27
slonopotamus	~fsck Macer	11:29
infobot	e2fsck /dev/Macer : warning! filesystem contains idiots!	11:29
slonopotamus	infobot: you looped	11:29
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RST38h	So, does the charging/charged LED status overrides messaging notifications for any of you?	11:30
DocScrutinizer51	got no msg. will check as soon as there's some	11:33
RST38h	Doc: Good test would be to leave the device plugged in for the night and check what light you have got in the morning	11:34
RST38h	Doc: If you have gotten an email or an IM, you should see the blinking blue light	11:34
RST38h	I always see the green light though	11:34
DocScrutinizer51	I always see the screen :-D	11:35
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RST38h	oh you have it always on when charging?	11:35
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Arkenoi	fbreader + rotatedaemon -> instant reboot	11:38
RST38h	Arkenoi: Blame rotatedaemon.	11:38
MohammadAG51	doesn't fbreader have rotation support?	11:38
RST38h	Yes, internally	11:38
RST38h	Had it since N800	11:38
MohammadAG51	then it will obviously fsck it up :P	11:38
Arkenoi	rst38h: actually i'd prefer it to use accelerometer	11:38
MohammadAG51	first it = rd	11:39
MohammadAG51	rotatedaemon	11:39
Arkenoi	RST38h, works fine with ctrl-shift-R	11:39
RST38h	Arkenoi: Well, I would also like quite a few things...	11:39
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MohammadAG51	Arkenoi, rotatedaemon doesn't use ctrl shift R	11:40
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MohammadAG51	it uses forced rotation (xrandr?)	11:40
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DocScrutinizer51	ok RST38h	11:41
DocScrutinizer51	I'll check on 1.2 with dbus pattern cmd	11:41
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DocScrutinizer51	RST38h: patternIM overrides green charging indicator here	11:47
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DocScrutinizer51	RST38h: dunno for how long	11:47
DocScrutinizer51	might time out	11:48
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mirf	whoop	11:49
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DocScrutinizer51	poohf	11:51
RST38h	Doc: Weird, weird stuff	11:52
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: lemme check mce.ini	11:52
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: yep,PatternCommunicationIM=30;1;0 should have higer prio (30) than PatternBatteryFull=40;4;0 , and both are infinite duration (0)	11:57
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: maybe for some weird reason mce is restarted?	11:58
RST38h	hmm..I dunno	11:58
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: you could rule out by simply changing PatternBatteryFull, e.g by changing g to r - without restarting mce. If it happens to get restarted it will read in new pattern def for PatternBatteryFull and show red light instead of green	12:00
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DocScrutinizer51	RST38h: also make sure whatever app is enabling the blue flashing pattern doesn't intentionally set it back to off after some 30 min or a few hours. dbus-monitor\|grep pattern should help to determine	12:04
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_led_pattern_activate string:PatternCommunicationIM still blinking blue nicely here	12:07
RST38h	Doc: thanks =)	12:07
* RST38h makes notes		12:07
RST38h	Doc: I suspect that the phone may repeatedly set BatteryFull pattern when connected to the charger	12:08
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DocScrutinizer	shouldn't matter, but would explain why green is still on after a suspected mce restart	12:08
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: PatternCommunicationIM=30 should overirde arbitrary number of PatternBatteryFull=40 activations	12:10
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: as mentioned above: dbus-monitor --system is your friend	12:11
DocScrutinizer	also there's a log of dsme somewhere, to check if mce seen a restart, iirc	12:12
DocScrutinizer	but also I seem to remember reading something like "deactivate IM LED notification after 60min - msg is no news anymore" - - or maybe I just dreamed that	12:13
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: you got xchat running? or pidgeon? They all share same priority for indicator patterns. So I donno if mce keeps old pattern of same prio on stack and re-establishes it after new pattern with same prio got deactivated	12:16
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RST38h	Doc: so maybe modest and im do deactivate it...	12:18
RST38h	although that rule sounds somewhat stupid	12:18
DocScrutinizer	yes, maybe	12:18
RST38h	if I have not see the message, then it is news	12:19
DocScrutinizer	not modest - but im	12:19
DocScrutinizer	xchat I know has no way to reset the LED on ... yeah what? get_focus?	12:19
DocScrutinizer	so it did deactivation after some fixed time	12:20
DocScrutinizer	at least that plugin of cehteh(?) worked that way	12:20
* RST38h tries to remember if he still has cehteh's plugin enabled for the led stuff		12:21
RST38h	The bubbles themselves now popup using XChat's standard facilities (they just had to be enabled)	12:21
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alterego	Off topic, but does anyone know if irssi can tell me what the last person said when they used my nick?	12:30
Noma	if you haven't talked much since then, /lastlog alterego would work	12:31
DocScrutinizer	would be a nice feature for xchat. I planned to implement such function, but alas xchat has no python support ootb ( RST38h hint hint )	12:31
alterego	Sweet, that worked thansk :)	12:31
RST38h	alterego: /last <nickname> ?	12:31
RST38h	Doc: See my previous comment about python support (cannot be made optional, once added requires python, current python install for Maemo5 is a clusterfuck)	12:32
alterego	:/	12:32
alterego	Doesn't it just need linPyton?	12:33
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alterego	erm, libPython ...	12:33
alterego	interesting: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10583227.stm	12:34
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alterego	Who the hell are NTP	12:36
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Venemo	hi everyone!	12:44
RST38h	NTP is just some random patent troll	12:44
RST38h	Shows one more time how screwed up current patent laws are	12:45
RST38h	probably cheaper to lobby the patent office to invalidate their patents	12:46
alterego	300m though ..	12:48
alterego	That's insane.	12:48
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alterego	That's a nice leaving message.	12:54
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MohammadAG51	lol	12:57
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lbt	who here wants an OBS account? Ideally you'd know what osc is and can prove to me you're trustworthy. Then we can see about getting them beta test accounts if they want to help fix issues (there are plenty)	13:01
MohammadAG51	MeeGo builder?	13:02
DocScrutinizer51	blargh	13:03
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DocScrutinizer51	hmm remeber a nice taiwanese fastfood near location of those OBS servers (or the office managing them)... Good idea :-)	13:05
MohammadAG51	lol	13:05
lbt	MohammadAG51: both MeeGo and Maemo	13:06
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Macer	damn. this thing is still connected over 3G	13:11
Macer	amazing. usually it would have disconnected by now	13:11
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malcolmci	Hey guys, wanting to reflash my N900 with the latest image. I'm on the download page, do I want "OS 2009 version 1.2009.42-11" or "PR 1.2 version 10.2010.19-1". I'm in Australia, so assuming that means Global is for me.	13:31
malcolmci	Anyone?	13:34
tuxer	malcolmci: PR1.2	13:35
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malcolmci	Thanks tuxer	13:36
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jophish	jacekowski, D-Iivil_Work, Nokia have told me that I cn only have it repaired in the US because the Warranty is US based :(	13:55
jophish	"send the device to a US contact with the proof of purchase and then have him/her contact our nokia care line for us to proceed with the repair process."	13:55
Stskeeps	downside of 'buying it cheap in US'	13:57
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jophish	Stskeeps, I didn't :(	13:57
jophish	I got it from expansys	13:58
jophish	a UK seller :/	13:58
Stskeeps	mm	13:58
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RST38h	wazzzd	14:05
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D-Iivil	Hola!	14:08
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jacekowski	jophish: go there again	14:13
jophish	jacekowski, I'd really like to just send it of. it takes me about an hour to get to the store	14:13
jacekowski	hmmm	14:13
jacekowski	nevermind	14:14
jacekowski	you don't get international warranty in US	14:14
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nidO	jophish, send it back to expansys and let them deal with it, theyure responsible for getting it sorted for you	14:14
jacekowski	you would get international warranty if you've bought it in the EU	14:14
nidO	if they have to send it to nokia usa because they sold you an import, thats their problem	14:14
Stskeeps	or at least EU	14:14
jophish	The stupid thing is that I did buy it in the EU :)	14:14
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Stskeeps	was it .co.uk or .com?	14:15
jacekowski	jophish: but your reseller didn't	14:15
nidO	expansys have lots of stores, their .com site is the uk	14:15
nidO	expansys.com = uk, expansys-usa.com = usa	14:15
jophish	expansys.co.uk redirects to .com, however it is based in the UK	14:16
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Stskeeps	should be able to get it fixed then.	14:16
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malcolmci	Hey guys, running Ubuntu Lucid AMD64. Neither the maemo-flasher-3.5 .deb or .tar.gz can execute on my system, what are my options?	14:16
Corsac	install ia32-libs	14:16
nidO	as I said, send it back to expansys, theyre required to sort it for you regardless of whether it's an import	14:16
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nidO	might also want to ask them why theyre selling you imported stuff, unless it was specifically labelled as such when you bought it	14:18
nidO	as the n900's theyre currently selling are clearly marked as being uk models	14:18
jacekowski	http://www.nokiausa.com/get-support-and-software/repair-and-recycle/repair-warranty/warranty-verification	14:18
jacekowski	http://www.nokia.co.uk/support/repair/repair/warranty	14:19
jacekowski	use that one	14:19
jophish	nidO, I don't remember it being marked as such	14:19
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nidO	check the links jacekowski gave and make sure it actually is a us model, if it is i'd accompany the return of the phone with a complaint	14:20
jacekowski	The European Limited Warranty offers 24-month coverage for new Nokia phones purchased on or after April 1, 2005 within the European Union, Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, and Turkey.	14:21
jophish	Yup, it is within the period on the US site, and doesn't show up on the UK site.	14:21
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nidO	well either way expansys are required to get it sorted for you, you dont have to send it off to nokia, but personally i'd take it back to them and ask them to outright replace it with the uk model they were supposed to give you	14:22
malcolmci	Thanks Corsac, that worked. I love my N900 and all, but you wouldn't think it would be too hard to supply a 64-bit compilation. Welcome to 2010, where a lot of people have >=4 GBs of RAM!	14:22
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tybollt	huh?	14:22
tybollt	your n900 har >4GB ram	14:23
tybollt	I am really impressed now	14:23
tybollt	has	14:23
mgedmin	are there any 64-bit ARM platforms?	14:23
nidO	read what he originally asked, guys	14:24
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mgedmin	we're just being silly	14:24
jacekowski	malcolmci: you don't need 64bit to use more than 4G of ram	14:25
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mgedmin	(but it helps)	14:25
jacekowski	well, you can use PAE	14:25
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nidO	but then, whats the point of explicitly using a 32bit system then bodge a dodgy method of accessing more memory, when you can just use a perfectly good x64 system	14:26
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xDaReaperx	Hey guys :D yesterday morning my phone had fallen into a small pond of water , and within a day i could get it up and working again :D thanks to the amazing staff here who helped me	14:26
xDaReaperx	i didn't have to wait for another 3 days to let it dry	14:27
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malcolmci	jacekowsi: as what nid0 said. that + personally, I don't need the company I paid for my phone telling me, and a large number of the N900 user base, what to run on my computers	14:28
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xDaReaperx	Does OC help increase battery life ?	14:51
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Corsac	in the bad way	14:51
xDaReaperx	Bad way like ?>	14:52
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Corsac	like, it'll help decrease battery life	14:52
xDaReaperx	so you've not overclocked your device ?	14:53
xDaReaperx	and incase anything goes wrong you just have to reflash the device right ? and everything returns to normal	14:53
asj_	depends on your definition of "goes wrong"	14:54
Corsac	xDaReaperx: you're playing with your hardware here	14:54
Corsac	so if something goes wrong, software might not be enough	14:55
smhar	I finally got my N900, and because I had an aging and fault mobile before, I had to manually enter more than 340 contacts manually.. Now, what is the best way to back up them in my computer. where is the contacts database file located?	14:55
Corsac	smhar: run the backup tool	14:55
xDaReaperx	you could just use the backup tool	14:55
asj_	smhar: use mfe and sync them to google every few hours	14:55
xDaReaperx	Yeah i know we are increasing the volts and stuff , this can mess with the hardware	14:56
Corsac	because we love having our contact list in hand of third party	14:56
smhar	I do not use google contacts, what is mfe? I just want to cp them to a local computer.	14:56
asj_	smhar: mail for exchange	14:57
smhar	no no. no exchange please. just a normal copy of files. where is the contacts database file located?	14:57
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asj_	smhar: do what the others said for christ sakes	14:58
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xDaReaperx	There is a tool given by Maemo itself called the backup tool , you get to backup your contacts , calendar , bookmarks .. and other stuff	15:00
xDaReaperx	and you can also restore it , if you connect your phone using mass storage you can download the backup file via computer	15:00
smhar	ok. backing up, then copying the file to my computer. thanks xDaReaperx	15:01
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xDaReaperx	Yeah no problem	15:01
smhar	how can I tell the version of N900 firmware?	15:01
xDaReaperx	settings > about product	15:02
crashanddie	Corsac: do you use facebook?	15:02
crashanddie	Corsac: or linkedin?	15:03
Corsac	es	15:03
Corsac	yes	15:03
Corsac	the latter only, though I do have an account on the former	15:03
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crashanddie	so, why do you moan at the idea of sharing your contacts with a third party?	15:03
Corsac	crashanddie: I don't mean the contact list I mean the contact details	15:04
Corsac	crashanddie: sharing my contact list (if I want to) is ok, but sharing details of my contacts without their consent is not	15:04
Corsac	imho	15:04
DocScrutinizer	yes	15:05
crashanddie	you're not sharing those details	15:05
crashanddie	you're just storing them	15:05
DocScrutinizer	you are	15:05
crashanddie	quite frankly, I don't think Google gives a flying fuck about your contact's phone number	15:05
crashanddie	if they tried to sell it, they'd get sued to obliviion	15:05
DocScrutinizer	on facebook at least	15:05
crashanddie	well, facebook	15:05
crashanddie	but I'm against it, completely	15:05
asj_	facebook can't do mfe, thank god ;)	15:05
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Corsac	crashanddie: I said “third party“, not google	15:06
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Corsac	I'm not especially targetting google	15:06
Corsac	(though the quantity of data they have scares me a little)	15:07
DocScrutinizer	Corsac: no friend of 8.8.8.8 for DNS? ;-P	15:08
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Corsac	not really :)	15:12
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Corsac	but I run my own dns for my domain anyway, so he's a cache/resolver too	15:12
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frals	heh, european cheerleading championships in helsinki today	15:17
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Lantizia	hey do your n900's say "Tessar 2.8/5.2" ... "AF 5MP" on the back	15:19
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Corsac	yes	15:20
Lantizia	just got a replacement backcover and im sure my old one didnt say that	15:20
Corsac	mine does	15:20
Lantizia	so its not a foreign one or something?	15:20
Corsac	nop	15:20
Lantizia	im in the uk	15:21
Lantizia	the bastards charged me £10 claiming the battery cover isnt in the warranty	15:21
Lantizia	it was the INSIDE of the cover that fell aprt... grrrr	15:21
Lantizia	i really hate the way you put it on and off... feels dodgy like its breakable :S	15:22
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lauri	hey guys, I cant get /usr/share/applications/hildon/blah.desktop work properly	15:41
lauri	The icon appears in the menu	15:41
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lauri	but it wont start the app	15:41
lauri	altought when I run the Exec line manually, it works	15:42
lauri	what could I do?	15:42
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RST38h	Doc: Do you by any chance have any details on how exactly XChat DCC fails? I am going to fix it but too lazy to test for exact symptoms	15:46
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DocScrutinizer	xchat DCC fails?	15:49
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: no idea about that	15:50
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RST38h	Doc: It succeeds but uploads stuff to some fixed, weird location	15:53
DocScrutinizer	lauri: check terminal and stdin/out settings, environment	15:53
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: ooh, DCC file transfer?	15:53
RST38h	Doc: While I am at it, should we quickly test it?	15:53
DocScrutinizer	never tried to use that	15:54
an0therb0x1	what the MMS connection under my internet connections ? in the N900 .. I no longer have the fmms app installed.. it is a pain constantly switching to mms and i have to manual switch out to use the internet	15:54
an0therb0x1	how can i completely remove the MMS internet connection ?	15:54
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: I always get problems with DCC FT as here I got a NAT	15:54
RST38h	oh	15:54
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DocScrutinizer	an0therb0x1: there's 'an app for it' :-D	15:55
DocScrutinizer	don't ask me for the name	15:55
RST38h	.dcc send RST38bis pullman.zip	15:56
an0therb0x1	cool	15:56
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an0therb0x	?	15:57
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MohammadAG	RST38h, s/./// :P	15:58
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an0therb0x	an0therb0x1: flash your device that should get rid of the MMS app	15:58
DocScrutinizer	//////	15:58
RST38h	hmmm	15:59
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RST38h	does not work	15:59
RST38h	Mohammad: Could you dcc send something to RST38bis?	15:59
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DocScrutinizer	duh, I can try, but see what happens	16:00
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kwtm	Hello. Quick question:	16:01
RST38h	Send to RST38bis not RST38h	16:02
kwtm	Are any of you able to charge your n900 from a USB charger which is NOT also a computer? (e.g. Wall outlet or car outlet adapter in the shape of a USB socket, but no actual computer to connect to the n900?)	16:02
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RST38h	Mhm, looks like my NAT is no better than your NAT, Doc	16:03
DocScrutinizer	yep. 192.169.0.108 looks like no valid addr to reach you	16:04
kwtm	Mine refuses to charge via USB cable unless it's connected to a "real" computer, so I can't charge it in my car (bummer!)	16:04
DocScrutinizer	168 of course	16:04
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: short D+/D-	16:04
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: then it'll work	16:05
kwtm	Oh, you guys trying to send a file to each other? You can try Skype to send files if you're both behind natted walls.	16:05
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: Oh, so I should make sure the adapter connects the D+ connection to the D- connect? Hmm... probably doable with a soldering gun...	16:05
kwtm	s/natted walls/NAT'd firewalls/	16:05
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: we have zillions of ways to send files. But RST38h wants to check some IRC DCC related issue	16:05
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: Ah. I'll just shut up here, then. :P	16:06
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: exactly. Did this (soldering) on my no brand usb charger	16:06
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: You wouldn't happen to know which ones are the D+/D-? (Are they the middle two?) Will Google to verify but would love to have real-world confirmation from a live person.	16:07
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DocScrutinizer	they are the middle two	16:07
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DocScrutinizer51	in cable usuall white/green iirc	16:08
kwtm	Okay. Will try this on a el-cheapo adapter first. Crummy that I will have to do this for a whole bunch of adapters. :P Or maybe I'll have a USB charging cable that I can short, to be used with any adapter.	16:09
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kwtm	DocScrutinizer51: I don't suppose this is something changeable by software? In case I'm stuck somewhere without a charger and have to borrow/buy a USB cable while I'm travelling?	16:09
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DocScrutinizer	kwtm: check this post of mine, edit the 0x90 in the while condition to whatever it is for you (probably 0x10) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=658278#post658278	16:11
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: status byte bit7 means D+/- short detected, but it doesn't work even when you use the original charger. So 0x10 is probably ok for you	16:12
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: Thanks for the tip. Not sure I understand it but will research on my own. It looks like Maemo code (or is that a shell script?) and it will be incorporated later into Maemo?	16:13
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: So that's what you look like! I love the sunglasses. :)	16:13
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: notice that this little script, just like bme, isn't able to detect end of charging correctly when screen backlight is on. Also keep in mind you have to "stop bme" prior to starting the script, and "start bme" after finishing charge	16:14
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DocScrutinizer	it's a shell script	16:14
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kwtm	DocScrutinizer: Thanks. Will keep it handy.	16:16
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DocScrutinizer	kwtm: do not use this script for unattended charging please. It's not completely tested and a first rather rudimentary draft that doesn't check for many special situations	16:16
DocScrutinizer	it's reasonably safe for attended charging that will be killed/stopped by user after max 6h	16:18
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DocScrutinizer	don't use it with PC usb hosts or weak chargers, as it doesn't care about overloading etc	16:19
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Bluewind	any hints how to install curl?	16:19
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Bluewind	apt-get doesn't find a package :(	16:19
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: Understood. Only for desperate situations. I was recently overseas and did not have a charger for my Treo650, and must have gone to a dozen local stores hunting for a charger/adapter/battery for the non-standard socket. I was so gratified to see that the N900 used a standard micro-USB.	16:19
kwtm	Bluewind: I don't see a package when I search under http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=curl	16:20
kwtm	Bluewind: But there's wget, though. Do you need curl specifically?	16:21
Bluewind	yeah	16:21
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kwtm	DocScrutinizer: Any recommendations on soldering? Did you just use a solder trail or actually attach a piece of metal to short D+ to D-? Did you solder the socket end (ie. computer end) like I plan to do, or did you solder the plug end (cable end)?	16:22
kwtm	Bluewind: I see libcurl and pycurl... I don't suppose you'd want to write your own Python version or something. I wonder if wget is included in some GNU utils package?	16:22
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DocScrutinizer	kwtm: My charger is a wallwart with A-F receptacle. I soldered a blob over the two pins/solderpads of the receptacle	16:23
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DocScrutinizer	kwtm: I.E. computer end	16:23
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kwtm	DocScrutinizer: And the act of plugging in the plug did not scrape off the solder? Ok.	16:24
DocScrutinizer	I use standard CA-101 cable with that	16:24
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DocScrutinizer	kwtm: the solder pads are inside the charger, on the PCB	16:24
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kwtm	DocScrutinizer: Right... at first I thought the metal of the plug would scrape it off, but come to think of it now, that's just the ground housing, and the contacts themselves are embedded in the plastic tongue that floats inside the housing. Great; will try on cheap plug and then work on my car chargers if that's successful.	16:26
kwtm	Bluewind: Compile from source? I see a Maemo 3.2 binary but not Maemo 5.0. I assume you're talking about a n900?	16:26
Bluewind	yes	16:26
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Bluewind	well I've nerver compiled any dpkg packages and know near to nothing about their buildsystem	16:27
kwtm	Me either. Sorry I can't help you more; maybe the veterans here can help.	16:28
Bluewind	thx anyway	16:28
kwtm	Anyway, gonna get some sleep. TTYL all. Thanks Doc for the soldering advice.	16:28
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DocScrutinizer	kwtm: I never soldered any USB plug. Solder the end of the cable where wires are soldered to PCB, or where the receptacle is soldered to PCB	16:31
Bluewind	DocScrutinizer: he's gone	16:32
* DocScrutinizer shrugs		16:32
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kerio	nobody has broke in the nokia HQ yet?	16:33
Appiah	kerio: to do what?	16:33
kerio	enter, copy the bme's source, exit	16:33
Stskeeps	because it is of such state your eyes will bleed if you try to read it	16:34
Stskeeps	;)	16:34
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DocScrutinizer51	ack XP	16:35
DocScrutinizer51	many tried, nobody came back	16:36
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kerio	DocScrutinizer: did they get caught, or did they die looking at the source?	16:39
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DocScrutinizer51	btw I said before: we don't even want to know what bme does. We are able to figure what it should do, and we found several bugs in bme already	16:40
DocScrutinizer51	kerio: probably #2	16:40
kerio	DocScrutinizer51: yes we do	16:41
kerio	so we can write a replacement	16:41
kerio	and by "we" i mean you developers	16:41
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DocScrutinizer51	exactly. we write a better replacement from scratch if we never had a look at original bme crap	16:42
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DocScrutinizer51	bme is just wrong and buggy	16:42
DocScrutinizer51	all we need is Nokia's specs for BL-5J battery care	16:43
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DocScrutinizer51	and that is quite evidentally not to be found in bme	16:43
kerio	DocScrutinizer51: what about OS integration?	16:46
DocScrutinizer51	Stskeeps did that already, for mer	16:47
Stskeeps	hum?	16:48
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Stskeeps	oh, right - hald-addon-bme replacement	16:48
DocScrutinizer51	and what else we'd need (beyond hald-addon-bme) is not in bme anyway - like D+/- short charger detection which is in musb_core	16:48
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DocScrutinizer51	or ENUM. guess where you find that	16:50
DocScrutinizer51	what else left for 'OS integration'?	16:50
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DocScrutinizer51	maybe the watchdog in dsme? not really a big thing. we can live without - it's largely nonsense	16:52
kerio	DocScrutinizer51: we need a way to help noobs charge back the battery if it gets too low	16:52
kerio	i mean, that's kernel level	16:53
kerio	but still	16:53
DocScrutinizer51	no that's hw level	16:53
DocScrutinizer51	and nothing to be done	16:53
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DocScrutinizer51	just works - integrated in usb charge chip bq24150	16:54
kerio	the failsafe charging...	16:54
kerio	i really wonder why isn't charging fully hw anyway	16:55
DocScrutinizer51	simply because bq24150 is missing an EPROM to configure for a particular battery	16:56
DocScrutinizer51	so it reverts to absolutely safe power on presets which will charge just every cell in a safe way but only to some 10%	16:57
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kerio	DocScrutinizer: reasoning behind this?	17:00
kerio	it's not like you can use a different battery in a n900 anyway	17:00
DocScrutinizer51	well it's not nokia who built that chip	17:00
Stskeeps	sure you can :P	17:01
DocScrutinizer51	and yes. there's mugen and whatnot	17:01
DocScrutinizer51	and for ENUM you'll end with needing a software anyway. So why integrate functions to hw that are moe cheap to do in sw	17:02
kerio	because you're going to make crappy sw that people on IRC are going to whine about?	17:03
DocScrutinizer51	like configuring the chip for 4.2V instead of 3.7V	17:03
DocScrutinizer51	not me :-P	17:03
DocScrutinizer51	maybe Nokia subcontractors	17:03
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DocScrutinizer51	and see my 'script' (it's almost not worth the name, but still does the job). How easy is that, and how hard would it be to fix if charger hw would be similarly borked as bme is	17:06
DocScrutinizer51	nah 'let's do it in hw just becuase we got poor sw engineers' is never a good strategy	17:08
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kerio	DocScrutinizer: hardware is tested a lot more	17:09
DocScrutinizer51	rom-basic was a deadend	17:09
DocScrutinizer51	kerio: hahahahaha	17:10
DocScrutinizer51	ha	17:10
DocScrutinizer51	haha	17:10
DocScrutinizer51	HA	17:10
kerio	stop crushing all my hopes	17:10
kerio	:(	17:10
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pupnik	ty for the info on bq24150 DocScrutinizer51	17:11
DocScrutinizer51	(still gasping) you're welcome. Which pericularly?	17:12
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DrGrov	Good day	17:14
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luke-jr	is it possible that moving swap to MicroSD will hurt battery life? :/	17:18
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gomiam	k	17:19
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer51: there is that BSI	17:21
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer51: which seems to be battery specifig	17:21
jacekowski	specific*	17:21
DocScrutinizer51	jacekowski: yep	17:22
DocScrutinizer51	jacekowski: BL-5J == 100k	17:22
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DocScrutinizer51	unclear if it holds a thermofuse as well. like open circuit above 70C	17:23
DocScrutinizer51	that's why we need Nokia bl5j specs	17:23
jacekowski	have we asked nokia?	17:23
DocScrutinizer51	not yet. Stskeeps says no use in that for next 3 weeks	17:24
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jacekowski	and there is one more thing	17:25
DocScrutinizer51	I'm not going to buy 10 bl-5j and kill them in test + R3	17:25
DocScrutinizer51	RE	17:26
jacekowski	why is bsi connected to gazoo	17:26
kerio	DocScrutinizer: aw :(	17:26
DocScrutinizer51	jacekowski: good question	17:26
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DocScrutinizer51	maybe because one nice day in the past somebody thought it's not a fixed R but a NTC like on old Nokia batteries	17:27
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DocScrutinizer51	or to shut down GSM TX immediately so even when you remove battery there's still enough time for bme to gracefully shut down system?	17:29
DocScrutinizer51	which wouldn't work if GSM is drawing 2A and you remove battery	17:29
DocScrutinizer51	but then there's no use in this when not hooked up to charger to backup power	17:30
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DocScrutinizer51	jacekowski: we should meet and have 4 beer each while discussing that	17:30
dr34m	any way to reanimate a dead battery without a 2nd phone there ? when i connect the charger just the orange light is lit but wont boot or anything :\|	17:32
flux	dr34m, have you tried keeping it that way for a while?	17:33
dr34m	the light goes off than but it wont boot still nor anything jup	17:33
DocScrutinizer51	jacekowski: cargo cult EE probably	17:33
dr34m	kinda annoying they should supply some desktop charger or a 2nd phone with the n900 package =p	17:34
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flux	dr34m, when I last had an empty battery, charging it for a while (remove battery, insert battery, use original charger for <hour?) and then starting it worked. iirc :).	17:35
DocScrutinizer51	dr34m: yellow steady light=leave it. light off= replug charger. blinking yellow= you should be able to boot now	17:35
DocScrutinizer51	dr34m: always use original wallcharger	17:36
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer51: is there a car charger that works with the n900?	17:36
DocScrutinizer51	crashanddie: dunno	17:36
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DocScrutinizer51	you'd think Nokia should sell those :-)	17:37
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer51: what's the charge voltage? How complicated would the circuit be? Does it need to have this usb-power-negotiation thingy?	17:37
DocScrutinizer51	I got no car	17:37
flux	crashanddie, not complicated at all, in principle	17:37
flux	crashanddie, it needs to provide 5V and possibly 700mA	17:37
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DocScrutinizer51	nope. just 5.0V @ 1A. And D+/- short	17:37
dr34m	thanks for the reply DocScrutinizer51 and flux ill try that.. only using original wall charger anyways	17:37
flux	crashanddie, of course, given it's in a car, it must guard atleast for the overvoltage situation	17:37
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flux	(you're going to get when you start the car)	17:38
crashanddie	s/car/bike/	17:38
crashanddie	http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6584/photo016.jpg	17:38
flux	I guess the same applies	17:38
DocScrutinizer51	dr34m: yellow steady is limited to 32 minutes. replug every half hour	17:38
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flux	not sure, though	17:38
flux	wouldn't hurt atleast :)	17:39
dr34m	that a construction failure / bug on nokia side ?	17:39
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luke-jr	wtf	17:39
luke-jr	N900 won't stop vibrating	17:39
dr34m	give it to your gf	17:39
dr34m	sorry :x	17:39
DocScrutinizer51	dr34m: not really	17:40
DocScrutinizer51	dr34m: usually you shouldn't be able to drain your bat that much	17:40
dr34m	oke	17:41
DocScrutinizer51	if it happens nevertheless, then there's 32min steady yellow emergency recover mode for charging	17:41
DocScrutinizer51	should give you a bat at 25% after 30 min	17:42
DocScrutinizer51	maybe at 10	17:42
dr34m	ok when the light goes off i replug the charger and repeat that till its working ?	17:42
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DocScrutinizer51	anyway should suffice to boot and charge as usual after that	17:43
DocScrutinizer51	yep	17:43
dr34m	i ordered a spare battery and a desktop charger anyways now	17:43
dr34m	specially in the weekend damnit	17:43
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DocScrutinizer51	dr34m: maybe it's wise to also remove the battery for some minutes. Especially if device doesn't show any yellow indicator light immediately on charger plugin	17:46
b-man	~ping MohammadAG51	17:47
infobot	pong MohammadAG51	17:47
crashanddie	flux: I'll probrably get this: http://www.equipmoto.fr/accessoire-moto-prise-allume-cigare-de-courant-moto.html	17:47
DocScrutinizer51	crashanddie: skooter, motorbike?	17:49
crashanddie	motorbike	17:49
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer51: link I posted before	17:49
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DocScrutinizer51	be carefull, I've seen at least 3 fried devices (Freerunner) due to crappy USB car chargers plugged in while starting motor	17:50
crashanddie	will do	17:50
luke-jr	ouch	17:50
* luke-jr sticks to an inverter...		17:50
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luke-jr	so no comments on whether swap-on-microSD will harm battery life?	17:51
DocScrutinizer51	well, N900 is way more robust on VBUS OV	17:51
DocScrutinizer51	but still....	17:51
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer51: I can connect an SSR to the headlamps cable so that the power is cut immediately as soon as the engine is off (the headlamps come up when the engine is started)	17:51
DocScrutinizer51	luke-jr: sure, might keep uSD powered all the time	17:51
crashanddie	or rather an EMR, rather than SSR	17:52
DocScrutinizer51	crashanddie: sounds reasonable	17:52
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer51: would also prevent people from plugging in something into the plug and draining my battery while it is parked	17:52
DocScrutinizer51	good plan	17:52
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crashanddie	I wonder if I could use a transistor rather than a relay... 5v at 700mA, so roughly 3.5W, that should be findable	17:54
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer51: though, why were they fried? Because it went over 12V?	17:55
DocScrutinizer51	unclear	17:55
DocScrutinizer51	probably high voltage bursts	17:55
crashanddie	well, most likely, it's not like it could sudden pump amps through	17:55
crashanddie	well, there is a jumper on that circuit	17:56
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DocScrutinizer51	maybe even transients of inverted polarity	17:57
Venemo	hey guys	17:57
Venemo	is there anyone here who could help me with a little bit of a gtk stuff?	17:57
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer51: scary	17:58
luke-jr	GTK ftl	17:58
DocScrutinizer51	we checked one of the chargers, but couldn't find clear problems	17:58
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alterego	Rather boring question, but what would people call the widget in the top left: http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/columbus/Screenshot-20100709-124603.png	17:59
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alterego	I'm trying to come up with a better name than "CompassWidget" something more succinct about the actual widget style ..	17:59
kerio	compass	17:59
alterego	Sure, but the widget below is also a compass ..	17:59
alterego	I was thinking maybe: SlideCompass	18:00
GAN900	alterego, sounds plausible.	18:00
alterego	Or maybe: TapeCompass, or RuleCompass, or CompassRule :)	18:01
kerio	alterego: side compass	18:01
alterego	Ah, maybe HCompass :)	18:01
alterego	Or HorizontalCompass	18:02
alterego	That's a pretty goodf idea.	18:02
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DocScrutinizer51	periscope?	18:03
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luke-jr	GAN900: -.-;	18:04
DocScrutinizer51	head up display compass?	18:04
luke-jr	GAN900: 3GData + WiFi works fine concurrently with stock 1.2	18:04
alterego	I was thinking, going along with Qt widget names: SlideCompass and DialCompass	18:04
Stskeeps	oh fucking hell. 'we have to stop the train cos we need to look at a technical problem'	18:04
cehteh	alterego: Bearing	18:05
DocScrutinizer51	scale compass	18:05
DocScrutinizer51	bearing	18:05
DocScrutinizer51	that's it	18:05
alterego	Heh	18:05
luke-jr	so um	18:05
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luke-jr	think T-Mobile is any more likely to let me subscribe now that I have a SIM?	18:05
DocScrutinizer51	Stskeeps: too hot :-P	18:05
alterego	SlideBearing ..	18:05
alterego	And DialBearing? :)	18:06
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alterego	GeoBearingSlide, and GeoBearingDial are my favourites so far :P	18:06
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer51: got a plane to catch so they better fix it	18:06
luke-jr	alterego: why make it compass-specific? :P	18:07
alterego	luke-jr: I'm not,	18:07
luke-jr	O.o	18:07
luke-jr	that was a joke. I can't think of a viable non-compass use	18:07
alterego	luke-jr: Well, I'm making generic base classes	18:08
alterego	The Compass/Bearing usage is obviously a specialization of the base classes.	18:08
alterego	BearingScale	18:08
luke-jr	alterego: has it ruler-markers? :P	18:08
alterego	luke-jr: did you look at the picture? :P	18:09
luke-jr	no	18:09
alterego	Oh, well, yes it does :)	18:09
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* luke-jr clicks		18:09
Stskeeps	woo, driving again	18:10
luke-jr	alterego: base 6???	18:10
DrGrov	DocScrutinizer51: does the Freerunner have phone capability?	18:10
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Stskeeps	define capability	18:10
Stskeeps	;)	18:11
alterego	luke-jr: ?	18:11
DocScrutinizer51	DrGrov: allegedly yes XP	18:11
luke-jr	alterego: your ruler markings are oddly base 6	18:11
DrGrov	I can make regular GSM phone calls?	18:11
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DocScrutinizer51	alterego: compass rose, compass scale	18:11
alterego	luke-jr: are they?	18:11
alterego	I don't see it ...	18:12
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DocScrutinizer51	DrGrov: sometimes	18:12
DocScrutinizer51	usually	18:12
luke-jr	alterego: well, a mixed combination	18:12
alterego	Well, the base class is obviously a "SlideRule" class :)	18:12
luke-jr	you have 9 divisions between directions, then 6 divisions within those	18:12
alterego	luke-jr: Well, it's got 1, 5, 45 and 90 degree markings.	18:13
luke-jr	I don't use degrees.	18:13
DrGrov	DocScrutinizer: usually? so it has some issues?	18:13
alterego	luke-jr: what do you use for your bearings? Radians? :)	18:13
luke-jr	alterego: Tims	18:13
alterego	Never heard of 'em	18:13
luke-jr	and timtons as necessary	18:13
DocScrutinizer51	DrGrov: well yes. it's not extremly reliable	18:14
DrGrov	DocScrutinizer51: ok, perhaps better to stick with the N900 then :)	18:14
DocScrutinizer51	DrGrov: mostly due to userland sw	18:14
DrGrov	oh, i see.	18:14
luke-jr	alterego: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/tonal-system/10991090	18:15
alterego	luke-jr: yeah, you showed me that before I believe :P	18:15
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alterego	I do plan on implementing custom "conversions" unit systems.	18:15
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luke-jr	alterego: divide each direction in half, repeat, rinse	18:17
luke-jr	eg, see bottom half of http://www.k12math.com/math-concepts/measurement/ruler-cm.jpg	18:17
alterego	Yeah, I get it	18:18
luke-jr	or for a better example... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Hexadecimal_compass_by_Nystrom.jpg/350px-Hexadecimal_compass_by_Nystrom.jpg	18:18
alterego	Still doesn't sound too common to me :P	18:19
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luke-jr	alterego: not common at all, just logical and easy :)	18:19
luke-jr	why make things hard?	18:20
alterego	Well, it's not about difficulty, it's about standards isn't it :P	18:20
luke-jr	Tonal is a better standard	18:20
alterego	It's not standard though	18:20
luke-jr	it's a standard.	18:22
luke-jr	:)	18:22
alterego	I'd say it's a format, it's not a standard until more than one person use it and in some industry :P	18:23
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DocScrutinizer51	luke-jr: you won't change the world :-P	18:25
luke-jr	alterego: hmm, so I need to convince one other person... :D	18:26
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alterego	Hahah#	18:26
alterego	And use it in the such for some oil maybe :P	18:26
alterego	s/such/search/ ...	18:26
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DocScrutinizer51	we'll rather see the British use Euro or the USA go SI units, than becoming tonal any form of standard	18:27
alterego	Heh	18:27
luke-jr	SI sucks	18:28
LinuxCode	luke-jr, forget us ever using the Euro	18:28
DrGrov	DocScrutinizer51: I am extremely impressed by the Freerunner. I might need to get one. The problem is my fiancee saying that I will get brutally murdered if I buy one.	18:28
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LinuxCode	lol	18:28
luke-jr	DrGrov: impressed how?	18:28
DocScrutinizer51	hehehe	18:28
luke-jr	DrGrov: does it work now?	18:28
alterego	I'm not sure Europe would have us with the current state of our economy :)	18:28
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DrGrov	luke-jr: It seems to be interesting since I like Linux on my phones	18:29
luke-jr	DrGrov: yeah, the theory is awesome	18:30
DocScrutinizer51	DrGrov: SHR seems most usable distro for now	18:30
luke-jr	but AFAIK it's never actually worked	18:30
DrGrov	DocScrutinizer51: yes, I read that SHR is most used.	18:30
DocScrutinizer51	luke-jr: uh? I used it for daily phone until I got N900	18:31
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sejo	someone using a bluetooth ear with the n900?	18:31
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer51: really? O.o	18:31
DrGrov	The phone is not expensive so I might want to give it a go	18:31
sejo	here it sounds all distorted	18:31
DrGrov	sejo: yes, i use	18:31
sejo	but not when using the BT device with other phones	18:31
DrGrov	sejo: if you mean bluetooth hands free	18:31
sejo	DrGrov: good sound?	18:31
sejo	yes	18:31
DrGrov	sejo: yes, the sound is really good.	18:31
DrGrov	sejo: are you using a default Nokia BT HF?	18:32
sejo	on my previous cor it was ok, but with such an earbud it's not	18:32
DrGrov	sejo: which bluetooth HF are you currently using?	18:32
sejo	DrGrov: no an LG HBM-215	18:32
DrGrov	sejo: there you go. that is the problem...	18:33
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DrGrov	sejo: always try to use a default Bluetooth HF with Nokia. That seems to be always working out the best.	18:33
luke-jr	any idea how to say 3G in Japanese? XD	18:33
DocScrutinizer51	Sony HBH-DS220 ... WFM	18:33
DrGrov	sejo: I currently use the Nokia 2xx series BT on my N900 without any problems	18:34
sejo	DrGrov: not buying another	18:34
sejo	bleh	18:34
sejo	sucks	18:34
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DrGrov	sejo: you could easily get a Nokia 2xx series BT for approximately 40 euros	18:35
DrGrov	DocScrutinizer51: That is a quality BT :)	18:35
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DrGrov	i got really interested in this Bluetooth HF	18:37
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DrGrov	sejo: it is a Nokia BH-216 I got as a headset. http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets/bluetooth-headsets/nokia-bluetooth-headset-bh-216	18:38
DrGrov	it is the BH-904 I got really interested about... http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets/bluetooth-headsets/nokia-bluetooth-headset-bh-904	18:39
DrGrov	The price though is a huge minor problem	18:39
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DrGrov	I tested it in Helsinki at the Nokia Flagship Store and it was impressive. There was some loud music playing and I was staying in the middle of the sound and I hear clearly everything the guy said.	18:40
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DrGrov	Guys, which one of these 2 would you recommend? the Nokia BH-904 or the Nokia BH-804, http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets/bluetooth-headsets/nokia-bluetooth-headset-bh-804?	18:43
DrGrov	http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets/bluetooth-headsets/nokia-bluetooth-headset-bh-804	18:43
DrGrov	Sorry for double posting links...	18:43
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DrGrov	brb	18:52
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* Arkenoi wonders if subscribing to city area wifi helps me to save battery or switching hotspots while walking would kill it even faster		18:54
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luke-jr	where to find exact PR 1.2 kernel sources? :)	19:09
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DocScrutinizer	http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle ??	19:19
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DocScrutinizer	Arkenoi: switching hotspots isn't so expensive	19:20
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DocScrutinizer	Arkenoi: depends on what you compare it to...	19:21
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DocScrutinizer	Arkenoi: on a correctly configured wide area WLAN with multiple APs, there should basically be no such thing like switching hotspots	19:22
GAN900	luke-jr, r.m.o?	19:22
Justus	is there a website for the Maemo Game Openlands?	19:22
luke-jr	keyword: exact	19:23
Justus	I didn't find one over google	19:23
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: hmm, ask Stskeeps maybe	19:23
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: who knows how 'exact' the published sources are?	19:24
GAN900	luke-jr, whatever the one in there whose version matches.	19:24
Arkenoi	DocScrutinizer, comparing to poor quality mixed edge/3g network	19:25
Arkenoi	will try, subscription costs about $17	19:26
Arkenoi	monthly	19:27
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smhar	wh	19:35
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smhar	there is a vibration and sound whenever I click on almost anything in N900, how to disable that?	19:35
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FireFly\|n900	Under settings > display, smhar	19:37
FireFly\|n900	or similar; running swedish version	19:37
smhar	found, thanks FireFly\|n900, I hope this will save a little more battery	19:38
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FireFly\|n900	I don't think that drains the battery very much, though reducing the backlight årobably does	19:40
FireFly\|n900	probably*	19:40
FireFly\|n900	just guessing, though	19:40
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DocScrutinizer51	Arkenoi: WLAN will win every time GSM competes	19:43
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Dassu	6	19:51
mortini	7	19:52
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PhonicUK	hey all	19:55
PhonicUK	F-Zero X at 30 FPS? Hell yeah	19:58
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MOUD	Hey all	20:03
MOUD	is appinstaller worth installing?	20:04
MOUD	what are the advantages?	20:04
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pupnik	PhonicUK: is that snes?	20:14
PhonicUK	no the N64 version	20:14
PhonicUK	using Mupen64	20:15
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PhonicUK	my phone is warm	20:28
PhonicUK	running at 1GHz though xD	20:28
PhonicUK	its really stable :\	20:28
PhonicUK	its been looping the F-Zero X intro for nearly an hour now	20:28
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MOUD	PhonicUK: what's your overclock configuration?	20:39
PhonicUK	standard voltages, 900MHz	20:39
PhonicUK	brb	20:41
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DrGrov	Quick question about the Black Plastic Theme Pack that came to the extras-repositories today. Do I need to uninstall the regular Black Plastic theme first before I put in the Theme Pack version?	20:42
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DrGrov	So to enable the theme I need to go into Settings first and choose what I want and then enable it?	20:45
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luke-jr	hum	20:48
luke-jr	I just wrote a DNS tunnel client in 100 lines of Perl :D	20:48
luke-jr	most of which is decoding the AAAA replies into binary dat	20:48
luke-jr	a	20:48
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ml-mobile	vnc is so slow over EDGE	20:59
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Macer	i need to find a new case for this xbox360	20:59
Macer	i want to l33t it out with the clear case and red lights	20:59
MohammadAG51	red lights? overheat it	20:59
* SpeedEvil passes Macer some brass sheet and mahogany.		20:59
Macer	haha	21:00
Macer	oh yeah. let me put some wood grain on the xbox360	21:00
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Macer	http://aleptu.com/xbox-360-mods-0519202.html	21:03
Macer	the one at the top with the 2 halo characters.. that's taking it too far :)	21:03
Macer	especially since halo is a total shit game	21:03
smhar	is there any money management program for N900 already	21:05
SpeedEvil	yes	21:06
SpeedEvil	there are a couple	21:06
SpeedEvil	maemoney/	21:06
SpeedEvil	err	21:06
SpeedEvil	not that	21:06
smhar	not online stocks stuff, but personal budget management	21:07
SpeedEvil	It did not have an obvious name	21:08
jacekowski	just a question in regards to installation of .deb's from www in microb	21:08
jacekowski	when you click on deb	21:08
SpeedEvil	ah	21:08
jacekowski	it should automaticaly install dependencies as well?	21:08
SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/packages/view/siggy/	21:08
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SpeedEvil	There was another one, but I don't recall the name	21:09
kerio	jacekowski: i think there's a way to add a repo and download&install a program (with dependencies)	21:09
type_t_	luke-jr what version of perl is that. are you using IO::Socket::SSL ??.	21:10
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luke-jr	type_t_: 5.8.8, no	21:10
luke-jr	DNS doesn't need SSL	21:10
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smhar	oh...not in extra yet!	21:14
DrGrov	I managed that Black Plastic Theme Pack to get working without any problems	21:15
DrGrov	Really great theme	21:15
DrGrov	MohammadAG51: Hi there, did you do the custom transitions for Black Plastic Theme Pack? If so they are absolutely fantastic :)	21:16
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MohammadAG51	DrGrov, sorry to disappointed, but nope :P	21:16
DrGrov	Macer: why didn't you buy the cool Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 Xbox 360 when it was released? :)	21:17
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Macer	hah	21:17
Macer	i don't get game related cases	21:17
Macer	i just wanta clear case so i can get it all lit up	21:18
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Macer	i want to remove the drive top too and put one in with a window	21:18
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Macer	i think i am going to need a power booster for the LEDs tho :(	21:18
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thopiekar	is amrothos from youtube here?	21:19
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thopiekar	he is controling a arduino w/ his N800	21:19
thopiekar	I'm interested in the kernel drivers for the usb to serial chip on the arduino..	21:19
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DrGrov	MohammadAG51: how did them then? No disappointment	21:23
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MohammadAG51	D-Iivil_Work, i suppose	21:23
DrGrov	MohammadAG51: ah yes, he himself made them I presume. But you did some scripting?	21:23
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MohammadAG51	no, why do you think I'm involved?	21:24
MohammadAG51	i only slightly helped with the script	21:24
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DrGrov	Macer: how do you order this cases?	21:24
DrGrov	MohammadAG51: you are in the credits ...	21:24
MohammadAG51	heh	21:25
smhar	if I added extra-testing to my N900 repos, will I be able to see if the app is from extra or extra-testing? and will it show its karma level? or do I need to check the web for every application?	21:25
MohammadAG51	didn't know that :P	21:25
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ml-mobile	smhar: it will show the catalog if you tap the "Description" button	21:28
Macer	DrGrov: by clicking "buy" ?	21:28
Macer	haha	21:28
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DrGrov	Macer: lol	21:32
Macer	but yeah. i think that is the case i will get. the clear one	21:33
Macer	i figure like $200 should be enough to make the old xbox look good as new heh	21:33
Macer	most likely less than that	21:33
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DrGrov	200...	21:40
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DrGrov	WTF should you need to pay about 200... Should be cheaper on the cases I've seen. Surely not the same as the one you're thinking about but you don't think that it is a bit much?	21:40
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RST38h	http://maemos.ru/heya wazd	21:45
RST38h	heya wazd	21:45
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RST38h	Anyone has got the apple bt keyboard driver compiled for the PR1.2 kernel?	21:47
jacekowski	RST38h: you don't need any special driver	21:49
jacekowski	RST38h: it's just working as soon as you enable correct bt profile	21:49
RST38h	it does not.	21:50
RST38h	needs a special driver.	21:50
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Arkenoi	rst38h: will see if reducing swappiness will help with ui reposnsibility degradation i get after a week of uptime or so	21:55
RST38h	Arkenoi: I am waiting to see that as well. 1 day uptime right now.	21:56
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RST38h	Arkenoi: does it feel better so far though?	21:56
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Arkenoi	RST38h, seems so	21:57
jacekowski	RST38h: you odn't need a driver	21:57
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jacekowski	RST38h: you just have to enable HID profile and that's all	21:58
* RST38h sighs at jacekowski		21:58
RST38h	The guy just doesn't do his fact checking =(	21:58
jacekowski	i hat apple keyboard	21:59
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jacekowski	have*	21:59
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RST38h	A'ok. Let us conduct an experiment. Maybe PR1.2 magically fixed that.	21:59
jacekowski	Module Size Used by	21:59
jacekowski	hidp 12544 1	21:59
jacekowski	hid 31876 1 hidp	21:59
pupnik	anybody want to play a game of 'hunt' sometime, for old-times sake?	21:59
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jacekowski	RST38h: i never had any driver for pr1.1	22:01
jacekowski	RST38h: as well as i never had any driver for pr1.2	22:01
jacekowski	RST38h: and it was working just fine	22:02
_0x471	how can I check if my application is still building in the autobuilder. it's 4 hours ago, wtf?	22:02
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jacekowski	_0x471: what was the name?	22:02
_0x471	libboost1.42	22:02
jacekowski	that will take a lot to build	22:02
jacekowski	freemantle?	22:02
_0x471	failed once, but the second try should be ok	22:02
_0x471	yes	22:02
_0x471	how fast is the autobuilders cpu?	22:03
jacekowski	hmm it has finished	22:03
_0x471	it took an hour on my 2x3ghz vm	22:03
jacekowski	i would guess something around 4x2.6GHz	22:03
_0x471	huh?	22:03
jacekowski	as it's little bit slower than mine 2.83GHz	22:03
jacekowski	_0x471: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libboost_1.37.0-3/armel.build.log.OK.txt	22:03
RST38h	Naah, same shit.	22:03
jacekowski	hmmm	22:04
_0x471	jacekowski: 1.42 :)	22:04
RST38h	Sorry, jacekowski, but it needs a kernel driver.	22:04
jacekowski	RST38h: well, what's the problem?	22:04
jacekowski	RST38h: bullshit	22:04
RST38h	jacekowski: google for it, will'ya?	22:04
jacekowski	RST38h: well, i trust my eyes	22:04
_0x471	jacekowski: failed here https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-July/024962.html	22:04
_0x471	but the second one still didn't update the status	22:04
jacekowski	RST38h: i have it working without any drivers	22:05
jacekowski	RST38h: /etc/bluetooth/main.conf	22:05
_0x471	jacekowski: what happens if I add it one more time, but the first one happens to compile ok?	22:05
jacekowski	RST38h: line DisablePlugins?	22:05
jacekowski	RST38h: what do you have there?	22:05
_0x471	will it crash the first build?	22:05
jacekowski	_0x471: no	22:05
jacekowski	_0x471: it will just reject one of them	22:05
_0x471	ok, then i'll just add it again to ensure it's actually there.	22:06
_0x471	thanks	22:06
jacekowski	the latter one	22:06
jacekowski	RST38h: Nokia-N900-02-8:/# hcitool con	22:07
jacekowski	Connections: > ACL 7C:6D:62:41:B0:AD handle 11 state 1 lm MASTER AUTH ENCRYPT	22:07
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jacekowski	RST38h: so unless in some automagical way i have that driver	22:08
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jacekowski	RST38h: it's working without it	22:08
FireStorm\|	fmms - any one having problem sending mms's says it's gone but never gets delivered?	22:09
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jacekowski	FireStorm\|: it's network problem then	22:09
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FireStorm\|	:(	22:10
FireStorm\|	but i take sim out n900 put in G1 send pictures all day long	22:10
jacekowski	oO	22:10
jacekowski	bme sends signals over dbus somehow	22:10
jacekowski	but there is no dbus code in bme itself	22:11
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jacekowski	hmm, nvm	22:11
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FireStorm\|	i know frals is on here i'll pick his brains when he back	22:11
FireStorm\|	just seemed strange	22:12
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wazd	RST38h: moo :)	22:17
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iPeter-	hi	22:17
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_0x471	jacekowski: if the autobuilder site states my application as being in the build queue, is it already building?	22:21
jacekowski	_0x471: no	22:21
jacekowski	it's in a queue	22:21
_0x471	wtf? it's been added 4 hours ago?	22:21
_0x471	i don't get it, lets see what happens	22:22
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jacekowski	i'm just wondering if nokia would take down a patcher for fmtxd modyfing it to ignore usb cable and headphones state	22:25
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smhar	is it possible to include more fields in the contacts? like prefix ?	22:28
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DocScrutinizer51	jacekowski: probably not. I mean they even accept powerkernel	22:30
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DocScrutinizer51	I wouldn't hope for inclusion to harmatan though	22:31
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xnt14	hmm, My N900 was in an infinite reboot loop, I enabled R&D mode and disabled the lifeguard reset, it boots now, but how can I find the root issue which caused it?	22:31
jacekowski	xnt14: /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_resets and /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_restarts	22:32
xnt14	jacekowski: ok	22:32
DocScrutinizer51	hmm	22:32
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xnt14	jacekowski: http://xceleo.pastebin.com/A5bQYbja	22:35
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jacekowski	hmm, i think somebody had same problem	22:37
jacekowski	not so long ago	22:37
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jacekowski	just flash it	22:37
xnt14	hmm	22:37
xnt14	so copy my data out, and reflash?	22:37
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xnt14	is it safe to reflash while in R&D Mode? (just want to be safe)	22:38
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SpeedEvil	http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.17790 Interesting. (though somewhat irrelevant) SATA drive replacement using striped SDs	22:42
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jacekowski	hmmm	22:46
jacekowski	how do you check if headphones are plugged it?	22:46
jacekowski	plugged in*	22:46
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SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/packages/view/headphoned/	22:50
flux	btw, how does n900 behave if you have two bluetooth headsets?	22:52
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jacekowski	i don't think n900 can handle 2 bluetooth connections	22:54
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flux	really?	22:56
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jacekowski	dunno	22:59
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flux	I could see it wouldn't suport a master- and a slave-connection simultaneously	23:03
flux	but iirc you can have 7 bluetooth slave-connections in one master	23:04
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SpeedEvil	There is what the hardware can in principle do.	23:11
SpeedEvil	Then there is what the chipset in question can do.	23:11
SpeedEvil	then there is what teh firmware in the chipset actually does	23:11
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SpeedEvil	and if the drivers and OS and application side actually support all the features the firmware enables	23:11
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wazd	oh. my. god	23:21
wazd	poor Forlan	23:21
wazd	that's super fail	23:21
Stskeeps	mm?	23:25
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kthomas_vh	anyone know where I can find the installer files for nokia maps for n900?	23:34
SpectralNewt	maybe /var/cache/apt/archives	23:35
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jacekowski	grrr dbus	23:42
jacekowski	how do i send dbus message to enable fmtx	23:42
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