| Macer | guess i have to do the pause and play thing | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| dotblank | wow | 00:01 |
| dotblank | I played that breakout game clone | 00:01 |
| dotblank | runs really really well | 00:01 |
| dotblank | tecnoballz | 00:01 |
| kerio | ... | 00:01 |
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| kerio | how did they come up with *that* name? | 00:01 |
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| dotblank | but yea this game is fun | 00:04 |
| dotblank | so much stuff going on the screen | 00:04 |
| dotblank | very intense | 00:04 |
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| joga | I've found that some rpg like lufia II with drnoksnes is excellent entertainment with the n900, you can just put it to background when needed and it doesn't require speed :) | 00:05 |
| joga | (or awkwardness of the keyboard, like in super mario or such where you constantly have to press multiple keys etc) | 00:06 |
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| dotblank | arrow keys plus z and x work well | 00:07 |
| dotblank | but thats about it | 00:07 |
| Macer | amazing that th world is still infatuatted with break out | 00:07 |
| Macer | i was more concerned with games like quake3 :) | 00:08 |
| Macer | which runs very well on the n900 | 00:08 |
| Macer | it would be interesting to get a mouse+kb going and to hook it up to the tv | 00:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | breakout? where? | 00:08 |
| kerio | i thought they already did | 00:09 |
| Macer | kerio: yeah? | 00:09 |
| Macer | i know getting a bt keyboard to work on it totally sucks | 00:09 |
| Macer | and the bug is irrelevant if you file it :) | 00:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | disable touch screen, pair bt keyboard and mouse | 00:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | umm | 00:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | just make a package that would sed the configuration file | 00:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | if you cba to do it manually | 00:09 |
| Macer | MohammadAG51: i want maemo4 type bluetooth keyboard support :-P | 00:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | Macer, mind shedding a light on me? never had a maemo 4 device | 00:10 |
| dotblank | technoballz is awesome | 00:10 |
| dotblank | can't get past the first boss | 00:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | or a chinook one | 00:10 |
| Macer | in the configuration/settings app | 00:10 |
| Macer | you can add a bluetooth keyboard incredibly easily | 00:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | so bt support got downgraded | 00:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | ? | 00:11 |
| Macer | direct support yes | 00:11 |
| Macer | it regressed | 00:11 |
| Macer | to get a bt keyboard working in m5 you have to edit a config file | 00:11 |
| Macer | and add keymaps | 00:11 |
| Macer | all of which maemo4 didd without so much hassle | 00:12 |
| Macer | maemo4 even had my su8w listed :) | 00:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | o_o | 00:12 |
| Macer | on my n810 running maemo 4 all i had to do was go to settings.. and pick my bt keyboard that i paired up to it just as easily | 00:12 |
| Macer | but then again... i had cups too :) | 00:13 |
| Macer | where is PB | 00:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | omg | 00:13 |
| Macer | he would make good things :) | 00:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | pb? | 00:13 |
| Macer | penguinbait | 00:14 |
| Macer | he had a whole kde pkg for the n8x0 :) | 00:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | so, fremantle was a downgrade? | 00:14 |
| Macer | other than the gles.. yes :) | 00:15 |
| Macer | maemo4 had more functionality | 00:15 |
| Macer | well.. other than gles and the phone part | 00:15 |
| Macer | and i suppose the cam too ifyou're into that sort of thing | 00:16 |
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| ruxpin | "This APT has Super Cow Powers." << wtf?? :) | 00:22 |
| luke-jr | LOL | 00:23 |
| ruxpin | within scratchbox | 00:23 |
| luke-jr | I think all apts have super cow powers | 00:23 |
| ruxpin | oh yeah, same message on my N900 :))) | 00:23 |
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| ruxpin | never noticed before but yes, same on my ARM debian :) | 00:24 |
| ruxpin | lol | 00:24 |
| MohammadAG51 | doesn't the iPhone do that too? | 00:24 |
| kerio | yeah | 00:25 |
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| kerio | well, not the iphone 4 | 00:25 |
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| ruxpin | iPhone has apt-get? | 00:25 |
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| kerio | if you jailbreak it | 00:25 |
| kerio | Cydia is a graphical apt frontend | 00:26 |
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| ruxpin | nice | 00:26 |
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| lardman | evening chaps | 00:27 |
| MohammadAG51 | evening lardman | 00:27 |
| lardman | hey MohammadAG51 | 00:27 |
| kerio | ruxpin: telesphoreo is based on apt | 00:28 |
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| Macer | i seriously think that tmob cuts off internet connections on purpose | 00:33 |
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| kerio | wires ftw | 00:33 |
| kerio | radio sucks | 00:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, ping? | 00:43 |
| crashanddie | pong | 00:43 |
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| nadley_ | i have a problem I installed mymenu from extra-testing but now since I removed it my menu is broke :s | 00:47 |
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| MohammadAG | define "broke" | 00:47 |
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| nadley_ | MohammadAG: some apps are missing my shorcut to app manager won't work | 00:49 |
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| nadley_ | MohammadAG: any idea ? | 00:54 |
| MohammadAG | remove hildon.menu, it should get regenerated, problem is idk where is it | 00:54 |
| MohammadAG | cd /usr/share && find -name hildon.menu | 00:54 |
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| nadley_ | MohammadAG: I find anything | 00:58 |
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| nadley_ | but I find it in my home | 00:59 |
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| MohammadAG | not sure where it's stored, I just know it was needed by ApMefo or sth | 01:00 |
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| nadley_ | yes I delete it it regenerate the menu but I have no shortcut to appmanager | 01:01 |
| Macer | i sure wish the stand on this thing did the double click thing | 01:02 |
| MohammadAG | as root in terminal apt-get --reinstall install hildon-application-manager | 01:02 |
| Nadley | ok | 01:06 |
| kerio | is there a way to edit the menu with an interface that doesn't suck? | 01:06 |
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| crashanddie | Does "Working at Nokia" qualify as being an interface? | 01:07 |
| MohammadAG | rofl | 01:08 |
| Nadley | MohammadAG : I did it but nothing new :s | 01:08 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56844 | 01:08 |
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| crashanddie | Jaffa: ping | 01:10 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie: pong | 01:12 |
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| GAN900 | Goodness EDGE is slow | 01:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Not as slow as GPRS | 01:14 |
| GAN900 | After I upgraded to 3G, I swore I would never use EDGE again | 01:15 |
| GAN900 | Then Nokia screwed me over. | 01:15 |
| Macer | haha | 01:15 |
| Macer | no tmobile? | 01:15 |
| kerio | 3G is an update? oh boy | 01:15 |
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| Macer | it is kind of odd they chose the tmob for the n900 | 01:15 |
| Macer | wonder why | 01:15 |
| Macer | i guess because of the G1 success? | 01:16 |
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| GAN900 | Macer, supposedly they were gonna have a subsidy | 01:16 |
| GAN900 | But that, apparently, never panned out | 01:17 |
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| GAN900 | So they just screwed the majority of their US customers. | 01:17 |
| GAN900 | Macer, and, no, I'm on a family plan with 3 iPhones. . . . | 01:17 |
| Macer | i doubt the majority | 01:19 |
| Macer | :) | 01:19 |
| * Nadley broke his hildon.menu now the apps menu is dead :d | 01:19 | |
| Macer | there are still n9x for att | 01:19 |
| Macer | still a pretty good phone | 01:19 |
| Macer | i just so happened to be with tmob | 01:19 |
| Macer | i hate the fact that all they think about is att | 01:19 |
| Macer | when att is so damn disgusting | 01:19 |
| Macer | get your amily all n900s and swap so tey don't turn into apple monkeys | 01:20 |
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| GAN900 | Majority of US GSM users are on AT&T | 01:22 |
| GAN900 | VAST majority | 01:22 |
| Macer | and the vast majority of att customers have iphones and wouldn't even know what an n900 was if you told them | 01:23 |
| Macer | sorry but that's the sad fact :)... n900s are niche | 01:23 |
| Macer | and maybe 1% of that market would use a phone that doesn't go into portrait mode | 01:23 |
| Macer | and costs the same as a new iphone | 01:23 |
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| Macer | because devs are working on making a small computer and avoiding the fact that an n900 is now a phone and should act as one | 01:24 |
| Macer | it's not some internet tablet toy that only 10000 people bought :) | 01:24 |
| asj | t-mobile is 30.8mil, att is 71.3m sprint is 51.9m and verizon 67.2m | 01:25 |
| Macer | it is a phone that only 1000 people bought because they were too busy debating over not adding features because they wanted to stay true to an internet tablet instead of realizing it isn't anymore but a phone with a ton of potential | 01:25 |
| Macer | lost potential as it seems :) | 01:25 |
| Macer | i mean don't get me wrong.. i love my n900 but i can't see the cattle using it and understanding what it can really do | 01:25 |
| asj | (I don't understand how sprint has so many customers) | 01:26 |
| Macer | 4G ;) | 01:26 |
| Macer | and i'm sure those statistics cound prepay phones which it shouldn't | 01:26 |
| Macer | count | 01:26 |
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| Macer | that is roughly 190million ... there are 250million adults capable of buying phones and roughly 200million underage children. if you are counting customers then they would all have to be adults.. there is no way that high of a percentage have cell phones | 01:28 |
| GAN900 | asj, Nextel | 01:28 |
| asj | Macer: 2 phones, work/home | 01:28 |
| GAN900 | Macer, the vast majority of AT&T customers own featurephones. | 01:28 |
| asj | Macer: US population is 300mil, not 450 | 01:29 |
| * Nadley need to reflash :s | 01:29 | |
| Ken-Young | asj He's counting illegals too. | 01:29 |
| asj | Ken-Young: then he's watching too much Fox | 01:29 |
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| Ken-Young | asj Well put! | 01:30 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: get back on your desktop | 01:30 |
| Macer | ok so 122 million adults | 01:30 |
| Macer | that can be "customers" | 01:30 |
| Macer | :) | 01:30 |
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| Macer | what is it.. about 65% over 18? | 01:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Won't somebody think of the children! | 01:31 |
| asj | Macer: this can only increase though, in our household we have 5 sims | 01:31 |
| SpeedEvil | When was the last time you saw a 5yo without a phone. | 01:31 |
| Macer | children can't sign contracts | 01:32 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 01:32 |
| asj | and there's only 2 of us, imagin if we had kids :) | 01:32 |
| Macer | haha | 01:32 |
| * SpeedEvil has maybe ... 8? | 01:32 | |
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| SpeedEvil | (SIMs, not kids) | 01:32 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: you scared me when you said maybe :) | 01:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I think most have expired by now | 01:32 |
| asj | SpeedEvil: this is active | 01:32 |
| Nadley | good night guys | 01:33 |
| Macer | they have to be counting prepay phones | 01:33 |
| Nadley | see you | 01:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Only I think 3 active | 01:33 |
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| Macer | especially with today's unemployment rates :) | 01:33 |
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| Macer | either that or they are counting accounts in default as well.. those numbers are way too high | 01:33 |
| Macer | don't tell the shareholders | 01:33 |
| asj | Macer: if you're unemployed the cell is probably the last thing you'll get rid of (though going prepaid might be smart, ok it would be smart for a lot of people) | 01:33 |
| Macer | i'm sure they find all types of ways to bloat their numbers | 01:33 |
| Macer | asj: i pay like 65/month for my n900 ;) | 01:34 |
| Macer | the same phone with att would be like 110 | 01:34 |
| * SpeedEvil pays 3. | 01:34 | |
| Macer | heh | 01:34 |
| * SpeedEvil is cheap. | 01:34 | |
| * ShadowJK pays about 12 | 01:34 | |
| Macer | i remember when i had my n95 and they said it would be an additioal $50 to tether.. they were nuts | 01:34 |
| Macer | then they told me their shit network wasn't the reason my $600 n95 was dropping the internet connection | 01:35 |
| asj | when we were in the US I always used prepaid, it was $15-30/mo. Most it was data, very little voice | 01:35 |
| Macer | so i put my sim in their shitty razr | 01:35 |
| Macer | same problems everywhere in chicago | 01:35 |
| Macer | tmobiel just seems to work :) unless i have a really bad signal.. but that is kind of rare except where i was earlier | 01:35 |
| Macer | it is cheaper too.. and i'm not under contract anymore so i can threaten cancellation | 01:36 |
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| Macer | ah well.. anyways. i have to go ahead and figure out what else needs to be done to this artigo. at one point i was going to use my n810 as a server but i couldn't find it | 01:36 |
| Macer | that would be low powered :) | 01:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Lo | 01:39 |
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| GAN900 | crashanddie, but it's all the way upstairs. :( | 01:44 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.livestrong.com/recipes/flapjacks-16/ | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | argh | 01:45 |
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| lardman | night chaps | 01:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | night | 01:55 |
| crashanddie | lardman|gone: night lardy | 01:58 |
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| raster | boo | 02:16 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 02:17 |
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| orangey | hello all! | 02:31 |
| orangey | boo to the topic : ) | 02:31 |
| orangey | though i must admit it's sooo beautiful the way they play | 02:32 |
| orangey | I have a question | 02:32 |
| orangey | I have "2.5g" on my n900 | 02:32 |
| orangey | via an EDGE network in Canada | 02:32 |
| FauxFaux | THE EDGE | 02:32 |
| orangey | (Rogers) | 02:33 |
| orangey | I'm trying to use VOIP through it, but am not really having success | 02:33 |
| orangey | am I wasting my time here, or is this a question of optimization? | 02:33 |
| orangey | i.e., picking codecs, etc. | 02:33 |
| orangey | ? | 02:33 |
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| orangey1 | aaand back : ) | 02:44 |
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| orangey1 | so, any thoughts on SIP via EDGE? | 02:44 |
| pupnik | what is your throughput up/down orangey1 | 02:45 |
| orangey1 | you mean via speedtest.net? | 02:45 |
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| pupnik | whatever you can do for a speed test | 02:45 |
| orangey | about 300 / 100 | 02:46 |
| pupnik | that should give you a set of usable codecs | 02:46 |
| orangey | kilobits, that is | 02:46 |
| orangey | but, for example, I see that g729 claims it's <10kb/s | 02:47 |
| pupnik | so you want a codec that can do 10kB/s effective | 02:47 |
| orangey | ok | 02:47 |
| orangey | is g729 kilo*bit* or byte? | 02:47 |
| orangey | I thought it was 10 kilobit | 02:47 |
| pupnik | wow | 02:47 |
| orangey | yeah. 8 kilobits per second is what it says when I'm looking | 02:48 |
| pupnik | good luck. worked for me with some help on the provider side | 02:48 |
| orangey | I'm actually not sure how to even know which codec is being used for a call | 02:48 |
| orangey | oh yeah? | 02:48 |
| orangey | with edge speeds? | 02:48 |
| pupnik | i don't know what codec was used | 02:48 |
| pupnik | never tried | 02:48 |
| orangey | what's your setup? | 02:49 |
| pupnik | it's gone unfortunately | 02:49 |
| asj | I've done sip over edge and the main problem was latency, it's >300ms, and very audible | 02:49 |
| orangey | asj: Latency is a surmountable problem for me | 02:49 |
| orangey | the main issue is that I hear almost nothing of the other person (very choppy) and they hear absolutely nothing of me | 02:49 |
| asj | orangey: ok, and jitter is through the roof too | 02:50 |
| asj | there's only so much you can do | 02:50 |
| orangey | what is jitter? | 02:50 |
| orangey | is that the robotic quality? | 02:50 |
| orangey | asj: what's your setup? | 02:51 |
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| asj | orangey: jitter is change in latency so if one packet takes 500ms and the next takes 750ms you have 250ms of jitter | 02:51 |
| MohammadAG | quite enjoyable :P http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/03/mystery-nokia-slider-shows-off-proto-symbian-3-one-last-time-co | 02:51 |
| asj | orangey: I don't have a setup that works over edge, it's not useable | 02:52 |
| orangey | asj: ah | 02:52 |
| orangey | asj: in that case, what have you tried? Have you played with codecs? | 02:52 |
| orangey | asj: also, what cell provider? | 02:52 |
| asj | orangey: yes I played with codecs, it was att | 02:53 |
| orangey | asj: *sigh* | 02:55 |
| asj | works ok over 3g ;) | 02:55 |
| orangey | the most frustrating part is actually that my provider has sublime 3g speeds on different bands | 02:55 |
| orangey | asj: you switched providers? | 02:55 |
| asj | and countries | 02:55 |
| orangey | i'm contemplating either getting another phone to tether | 02:55 |
| orangey | asj: where are you now | 02:55 |
| orangey | or getting a motorola droid 2 | 02:56 |
| orangey | which appears the same phone save for android | 02:56 |
| orangey | aha! | 02:57 |
| orangey | it appears that my provider doesn't give g729 | 02:57 |
| asj | then switch phones, <shrug> | 02:57 |
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| Venemo | hi guys! | 02:58 |
| orangey | asj: you think a cheap tether phone would be too much hassle? | 02:58 |
| asj | too much of a pain for me | 02:58 |
| Venemo | does anyone know why the behaviour of the keyboard changed in PR 1.2 when I remap some Fn key combinations? | 02:59 |
| orangey | hmm. time to see if this works well with 729 | 02:59 |
| orangey | brb | 02:59 |
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| orangey | (I'm using a different voip provider to test 729) | 02:59 |
| orangey | brb | 03:00 |
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| pyther | appmefo is a fantastic app | 03:13 |
| orangey | is there such a thing as a cell modem that I can use to extend the 3g reach of my n900 so I can pick up more networks and such? | 03:14 |
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| orangey | hmm. interesting.. | 03:18 |
| orangey | http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/13/huawei-announces-i-mo-hspa-modem-with-wifi/ | 03:18 |
| orangey | this might be the solution for now! | 03:18 |
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| Termana | good morning | 03:31 |
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| GAN900 | Don't you hate dysnomia? | 04:19 |
| MohammadAG51 | who? | 04:19 |
| GAN900 | General you | 04:20 |
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| obsidieth | has anyone installed a zagg invisible shield on the n900? | 05:20 |
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| GAN900 | I wish Nokia would proof Ovi Store item descriptions. | 05:27 |
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| WormFood | is it normal for the N800 to power on when the battery is inserted? It seems my power button isn't working, and every time I insert the battery, it turns on. I don't remember it acting this way in the past. I've taken it apart, and disconnected the switches, and it still powers on (which leads me to believe it isn't the switch at fault, but something on the motherboard. | 05:28 |
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| mortini | hm, i think i like firefox on maemo a bit more than opera | 05:29 |
| WormFood | my N800 has been working well for the last 2 1/2 years, but last time I go to use it, it has problems.....now every piece of nokia equipment I own has problems. I take my N85 back to them under warranty, and they refuse to fix it.....never again will I buy a nokia product. | 05:30 |
| WormFood | The only reason I bought my N800 was to use as a SIP phone....now I guess I'll just go buy a SIP phone, since the N800 quit working right. | 05:32 |
| crashanddie | WormFood: what problems do you appear to have with the n800? | 05:35 |
| WormFood | it acts like the power button is constantly pressed | 05:35 |
| WormFood | can't turn it on, or off, or unlock it....when I insert the battery, it just powers on | 05:35 |
| crashanddie | WormFood: that's usually an easy fix. You can use precision (flat) screwdrivers, and use one that is slightly bigger and file it off | 05:35 |
| crashanddie | keep filing until you have the right size for the star screws | 05:36 |
| WormFood | and I disconnected all the buttons from the motherboard, and it STILL acts that way, which leads me to believe it is something on the motherboard | 05:36 |
| crashanddie | there are repair manuals all over the internet | 05:36 |
| Termana | Can someone that has an n810 and an n900 tell me what the size difference is? | 05:36 |
| WormFood | I have the disassembly instructions, and the schematics | 05:36 |
| * WormFood is an electronics tech | 05:36 | |
| crashanddie | Termana: about 3/4 inch | 05:36 |
| WormFood | crashanddie, file off what? what are you talking about? | 05:37 |
| Termana | crashanddie, so its around about the same size | 05:37 |
| crashanddie | Termana: no, smaller | 05:37 |
| WormFood | the power button isn't being pressed | 05:37 |
| crashanddie | WormFood: sorry, most people need instructions on how to unscrew the screws | 05:37 |
| WormFood | I have the T6 torx | 05:37 |
| crashanddie | k | 05:37 |
| WormFood | I have a whole set of those tiny torx and other weird bits | 05:38 |
| crashanddie | I'm sure you're proud | 05:38 |
| WormFood | it is just a kit of stuff I bought for working on crap like this | 05:38 |
| WormFood | nothing to be proud of :P | 05:38 |
| SpeedEvil | what do you mean by 'the button isn't being pressed' ? | 05:38 |
| crashanddie | So you disconnected everything, but it's still autobooting? | 05:38 |
| ssvb | WormFood: there is also 'force-power-key' R&D flag, it would be a good idea to check what R&D flags are set for your device | 05:38 |
| Termana | crashanddie, would it be fair to say with both of them closed, the n900 would fit about on top of the screen of an n810, a bit over? | 05:39 |
| WormFood | correct crashanddie, even with the buttons disconnected | 05:39 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 05:39 |
| WormFood | SpeedEvil, the switches are disconnected....the power button isn't stuck or being pressed, but still powers on | 05:39 |
| crashanddie | Termana: don't have both right here to check, but that's how I remember it anyway | 05:39 |
| crashanddie | Termana: pretty sure it fits in height, maybe not width | 05:40 |
| WormFood | ssvb, I have not changed any R&D flags. I'm aware of them (but forgot about them 'till you mentioned it)....it was working, but yesterday when I go to use, it is dead...I recharge the battery, and now the power button does not work (can't even unlock the screen or power it off) | 05:40 |
| crashanddie | Termana: get out your pixel measuring tape: http://images.dailymobile.se/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/nokian900-vs-nokian810.jpg | 05:41 |
| WormFood | ssvb, would the force-power-key flag being set cause it to act the way I describe? (I sorta doubt it, but maybe) | 05:41 |
| crashanddie | WormFood: R&D flags can only be set by the flasher process as far as I can tell | 05:42 |
| crashanddie | (translation: they wouldn't change through normal operation of the device) | 05:42 |
| WormFood | I wonder if somehow the firmware was corrupted (I seriously doubt it) | 05:42 |
| ssvb | WormFood: can't say for all the symptoms, but it triggers turning on the device on inserting the battery for sure | 05:42 |
| crashanddie | doubt it too, however, when is the last time you flashed, and which repos are you running? | 05:43 |
| WormFood | that is what I was thinking too crashanddie | 05:43 |
| WormFood | I'm running os2008, and last time I flashed it was probably 1 1/2 years ago | 05:43 |
| WormFood | maybe a little longer. | 05:43 |
| WormFood | last time I flashed it was shortly after OS2008 was made available | 05:44 |
| crashanddie | well, you won't lose massive amounts of data, and I'm fairly sure that the latest OS2008 update is more recent than 1.5 years ago. http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php | 05:44 |
| LiraNuna | whoever sent me to #maemo-devel was surely playing a sick joke | 05:45 |
| LiraNuna | the channel isn't active at all | 05:45 |
| crashanddie | LiraNuna: he probably meant #maemo-devil | 05:46 |
| LiraNuna | Qt on N900 is a joke, all I am experiencing is problems and non-working modules | 05:46 |
| crashanddie | PyQt or PySide? | 05:47 |
| LiraNuna | C++ Qt | 05:47 |
| LiraNuna | trying to download a file using QNetworkAccessManager and the app just hangs there | 05:48 |
| WormFood | I can't find the last firmware I used. Probably got deleted or locked up on a dvd somewhere, but for sure I'm not running the latest | 05:48 |
| WormFood | I'm impressed...my download speed to China is pretty fast.....usually it is very slow (40 meg nvidia drivers were estimated to take 1 hour to download...I downloaded it to my server, then to my machine in 1 minute) | 05:50 |
| GAN900 | Any German speakers want to do me a favor and summarize this for mwkn? http://meetmeego.com/mobilefreidae2010-07-16 ? | 05:51 |
| GAN900 | pupnik? DocScrutinizer? | 05:51 |
| WormFood | GAN900, did you try google translate? Sometimes it is good for a laugh | 05:52 |
| mortini | 404? | 05:53 |
| WormFood | are there better schematics for the N800 than what i've been able to find. Page 5 of the schematics floating around on the Internet is too blurry to read | 05:53 |
| GAN900 | WormFood, good thought. | 05:53 |
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| GAN900 | Any German speakers want to do me a favor http://meetmeego.com/mobilefreidae/mobilefreidae2010-07-16 | 05:53 |
| GAN900 | Should be ^ | 05:53 |
| mortini | GAN900: not a german speaker, but what do you want? | 05:54 |
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| mortini | chrome auto-translate is nice | 05:54 |
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| GAN900 | mortini, summarizing it for mwkn | 05:54 |
| GAN900 | and falling asleep in the process, so my higher cognitive functions are shutting down. :P | 05:55 |
| mortini | http://pastebin.com/qU5PjU8t | 05:55 |
| mortini | ah, ok | 05:55 |
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| crashanddie | GAN900: I'm still awake, why aren't you? | 06:00 |
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| WormFood | are the buttons on the N800 not on the schematics? I've looked everywhere for at least 20 minutes, and STILL can't find them. Am I overlooking them or are they just not there? | 06:01 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, because I'm employed. *g* | 06:02 |
| crashanddie | sob | 06:03 |
| GAN900 | WormFood, no idea, sorry. | 06:03 |
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| crashanddie | WormFood: not there (at least, on the n810 schems) | 06:03 |
| WormFood | figures :( | 06:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: sorry I'm sleeping | 06:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: c-base is a cool location. I wonder why they don't offer the page in English | 06:09 |
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| GAN900 | Aye, the first Summit was there. | 06:20 |
| GAN900 | I'd love to seem OpenMoko try a round two using MeeGo. | 06:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | uh? | 06:26 |
| GAN900 | Random brain-to-channel dump warning. :P | 06:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | lol, idiot spamming #freenode. Chosen the right channel :-P | 06:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: OM the Inc. won't do anything - at least with phones and MeeGo | 06:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: AIUI OM is zombie or completely dead | 06:37 |
| GAN900 | Wiki readers for everyone! | 06:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's OM the community of course | 06:37 |
| WormFood | yeah, I just checked it...and my N800 is the newest firmware --> Version of 'sw-release': RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_MR0 ---- The device is in production mode | 06:38 |
| * WormFood sighs | 06:38 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: even WR I've seen with different brand label recently - dunno what's going on there | 06:38 |
| GAN900 | But it'd be nice to see a hardware platform that has features that aren't driven my Nokia's marketing and market research temas | 06:38 |
| WormFood | I know updating the firmware won't help, but I'll try it anyways. | 06:38 |
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| GAN900 | But sans the naivety of OpenPandora | 06:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | there won't be any OM hw platform that comes any way near what N900 is right now | 06:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and tbh OpenPandora isn't really that much more naive than my company was, at least to me it seems so | 06:41 |
| GAN900 | Likely | 06:42 |
| GAN900 | I'm just tired of Nokia making these things less and less appealing to me with each generation. | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: you might want to follow on what qi-hardware is doing | 06:43 |
| GAN900 | If only everything else weren't A. Crap or B. Proprietary crap. | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: http://en.qi-hardware.com http://www.nanonote.cc | 06:44 |
| dotblank | anyone have a pandora? | 06:45 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: Ben is A. Crap | 06:46 |
| WormFood | yep, just as I expected....reflashing it does not help :( | 06:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yo | 06:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | WormFood: you got URL to schem? Maybe erratic behaviour is due to flat backup battery? | 06:50 |
| WormFood | hold on a sec DocScrutinizer, and I'll see if I can find them again. I don't think there is a backup battery in it. | 06:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | WormFood: (I never owned a N800, so no schematics here fot that device) | 06:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | WormFood: It doesn't have a RTC?? o.O | 06:51 |
| WormFood | yeah, but I don't think it has a backup battery | 06:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | WormFood: usually you got a bupbat to keep RTC running, and also to make states of PMU statemachine persistent | 06:52 |
| dotblank | 222.2 mb for wesnoth is insane | 06:52 |
| WormFood | http://www.nmacleod.com/nokia/schematics/ | 06:52 |
| WormFood | N770, N800 and N810 schematics there | 06:53 |
| WormFood | and service manuals for N800 and N810 | 06:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | WormFood: If butbat is flat, then PMU statemachine will enter reset state oninserting main battery | 06:53 |
| WormFood | if it uses anything, it is probably a supercap | 06:54 |
| WormFood | interestingly, now it seems to power off with the power button, but not power on | 06:54 |
| GAN900 | There is a backup battery. | 06:56 |
| WormFood | where it is GAN900? | 06:56 |
| WormFood | if there is one, then it is not user accessible | 06:56 |
| GAN900 | Dunno | 06:56 |
| GAN900 | You'll have to take it apart, I believe. | 06:57 |
| GAN900 | Which isn't too hard on the N800. | 06:57 |
| WormFood | I did take it apart. If there is a battery, it is not a normal formfactor | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | WormFood: Vback, page2, directly under xtal and (5) | 06:59 |
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| WormFood | then it is a supercap | 07:00 |
| WormFood | oh, no | 07:00 |
| WormFood | you're right | 07:00 |
| WormFood | I see it on the schematics now | 07:00 |
| WormFood | at first glance it looked like a cap, but I see it is a single cell battery | 07:01 |
| WormFood | but where it is physically? | 07:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | easy to spot, it's always a silver button | 07:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | rather large | 07:05 |
| WormFood | look at the picture on page 8 | 07:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually at a PCB edge | 07:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok | 07:06 |
| WormFood | yeah, I know what it usually looks like, and where it usually is....but I don't see it. | 07:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | next to USB | 07:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | left side | 07:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, <30s to spot it. Not bad :-P | 07:08 |
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| luke-jr | :p | 07:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | AA-5/6 | 07:11 |
| WormFood | you're right, that does look like the battery | 07:11 |
| WormFood | the tab on it threw me off....I was looking for something round :P | 07:12 |
| WormFood | and it does appear to be corroded too....I wonder where I can find a replacement for it | 07:12 |
| WormFood | I have to go to 华强北 (hua qiang bei) tomorrow...I'm 99.9% sure I can find one there with enough leg work | 07:13 |
| WormFood | now I need to buy a decent temp control solder iron, or pay someone a few bucks to replace it for me....it is so close to the sd card slot, I'd rather do it myself. | 07:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | G1401 | 07:14 |
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| WormFood | is that the part number of the battery, or the nokia N800 part number? | 07:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia part # | 07:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-/ | 07:14 |
| WormFood | that is what I figured....but I need the normal part number to find a replacement. | 07:15 |
| WormFood | I hate to bring my N800 with me, but it shouldn't be too hard to do | 07:15 |
| WormFood | I wonder why the schematics shows it as a single cell (looking like a cap), when it must be at least a double cell (because of the voltage) | 07:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | as usual, Nokia doesn't see any need for real partnames in their schematics >:-( it's named '2.8/3.3V' | 07:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a LiIon cell, and that's a single cell special backup chemistry | 07:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | so -> 2.8/3.3V | 07:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's quite standard | 07:17 |
| WormFood | looks like 2.6/3.3 to me, but those schematics are not clear | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, 2.6 maybe | 07:18 |
| WormFood | I was thinking even the button cells (3v) are double cell | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's such a blurry crap, my tired eyeballs fail to see | 07:18 |
| WormFood | yeah, it is tiring on my eyeballs too | 07:18 |
| WormFood | and page 5 really fucks with me. | 07:19 |
| WormFood | I'm 1/2 tempted to go to 华强北 today, and find it, but I need to pick up a laptop tomorrow to get a new motherboard for too | 07:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, that's real crap | 07:19 |
| WormFood | very frustrating | 07:19 |
| WormFood | I scanned in the schematics for one of my ham radios (very old, like late 1970s model), and I went out of my way to make sure I got the best scan I could, so I could share it with others | 07:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | just use a CR1505 or whatever, and solder a spring so you can clip it in | 07:20 |
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| WormFood | there isn't enough room | 07:20 |
| WormFood | I know, it looks like there is, but the case (which they don't show) does not have enough space in that area | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I got a 5 dozen bupbat here, but presumably all are dead meanwhile | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | for OM GTA01 | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | looks identical | 07:21 |
| WormFood | maybe it does have enough space...kinda hard to see | 07:21 |
| WormFood | ever heard of "hua qiang bei"? | 07:21 |
| WormFood | it is a location | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | where? | 07:22 |
| WormFood | shenzhen, china | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | never been in Shenzen | 07:22 |
| WormFood | I've been living here for almost 2 1/2 years....you'd love it | 07:22 |
| luke-jr | I can't imagine I would tolerate going to China for any reason | 07:22 |
| WormFood | that area is jam packed with computers and electronics | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | been in Taipei. There's also a nice district for electronics | 07:22 |
| WormFood | the place I will go is 3 or 4 buildings, called 华强电子世界 (hua qiang electronics world)....they literally have everything | 07:23 |
| luke-jr | WormFood: gears? | 07:24 |
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| WormFood | sure, for electronics type stuff...like CD players and VCRs | 07:24 |
| luke-jr | gears are gears | 07:24 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 07:24 |
| WormFood | :P | 07:24 |
| luke-jr | how about for pendulums? | 07:24 |
| luke-jr | pendulums are cool | 07:24 |
| WormFood | now I need to learn the word in mandarin for "battery" | 07:24 |
| luke-jr | WormFood: 'hoike' | 07:25 |
| * RST38h moos | 07:25 | |
| luke-jr | not sure the written character | 07:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | yay. Thank God in TPE everybody knows English | 07:25 |
| WormFood | why thank god for that? :P | 07:25 |
| RST38h | Large, sharpened pendulums, yesss | 07:25 |
| WormFood | no luke-jr, that is not mandarin | 07:25 |
| luke-jr | WormFood: aww, you figured me out too easily! | 07:25 |
| WormFood | it should start with 电 | 07:26 |
| luke-jr | I admit, I made it up on the spot | 07:26 |
| WormFood | it looks like it | 07:26 |
| WormFood | if you said "dian____" I'd probably believe you | 07:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | WormFood: as otherwise I still would try to find the things I had to buy there, or find my way out of the district | 07:26 |
| WormFood | I usually don't have too much problem, even tho my mandarin skills are minimal | 07:26 |
| WormFood | I can ask for the price, and I understand numbers, and I can ask for a receipt | 07:27 |
| luke-jr | but do you understand TONAL numbers??? | 07:27 |
| RST38h | luke: The ones produced by a phone? =) | 07:28 |
| WormFood | I got a WRT54GS V1 router here, with 8m flash, and 32m ram....and the ram went bad....I was able to buy new RAM chips for 8 RMB (about $1.15 USD) each....then paid someone 20 RMB (about $3 USD) to replace them for me..... | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | ... no | 07:28 |
| WormFood | those are dual tonal number | 07:28 |
| WormFood | DTMF = Dual Tone Multi-Frequency ;) | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | you both fail | 07:28 |
| WormFood | luke-jr, what are you talking about | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | tonal as in the number ton | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | as oppposed to decimal | 07:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | no that's tonage | 07:29 |
| WormFood | DocScrutinizer, thanks a lot for your help finding that battery. I was looking for the wrong think...you have sharp, experienced eyes | 07:29 |
| WormFood | wrong thing* | 07:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 07:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're welcome | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/tonal-system/10991090 | 07:29 |
| WormFood | This is a little outside of my area of expertise. I don't have to deal with these types of batteries too much....I was expecting something bigger, and more rounded | 07:29 |
| WormFood | I used to repair 2-way radios years ago....I was very good with that stuff. | 07:30 |
| WormFood | luke-jr, nobody uses that in the real world | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | WormFood: I do! | 07:31 |
| WormFood | for dealing with what? | 07:31 |
| luke-jr | everything! | 07:31 |
| RST38h | luke-jr is an open source fanatic, WormFood, he uses weird things | 07:31 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: free software, not open source! | 07:31 |
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| luke-jr | <.< | 07:32 |
| RST38h | probably uses Linux too | 07:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tanal system | 07:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | mix of total and... | 07:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | invented by somebody who *really* got bored | 07:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | after he had finished learnng inuktitut and cherokee | 07:32 |
| luke-jr | John Nystrom was a famous engineer! | 07:32 |
| * ShadowJK would have assumed teh backup battery is a Lithium battery without the -Ion | 07:32 | |
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| WormFood | Battery is 电池 Diànchí | 07:36 |
| WormFood | weird....the 2nd character means "pond"....literally "electric pond" (sorta makes sense in a chinese way) | 07:37 |
| luke-jr | makes sense in an English way too IMO | 07:38 |
| zash | Hah, cool | 07:39 |
| luke-jr | pool of electricity | 07:39 |
| asj | I wonder if resevoir might be a better translation? | 07:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: maybe - I'm not familiar with the exact type of cell chemistry they use for those exotic critters | 07:42 |
| WormFood | actually, google translate says "pond, reservoir, stall"...my dictionary also says "pool" | 07:42 |
| WormFood | but many times a reservoir is a pond/pool....so asj, you're right I thinks | 07:43 |
| WormFood | if you say the tones wrong, it could come out as "electric eats/food" | 07:43 |
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| Izzeh | anyone here got PS3 controller working and know how to connect it without keymaps? | 07:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yummy, need to get my 5kWh electric breakfast :-P | 07:52 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery - the PC backup battery is shown on top | 07:55 |
| RST38h | Works pretty much the same as a standard watch battery, but produces twice the voltage | 07:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | these are primary cells | 07:56 |
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| RST38h | "Unused lithium batteries provide a convenient source of lithium metal for use as a reducing agent in methamphetamine labs. Some jurisdictions have passed laws to restrict lithium battery sales..." | 08:00 |
| RST38h | Mhm | 08:00 |
| zash | *facepalm* | 08:01 |
| mortini | heh | 08:01 |
| LiraNuna | anyone care to test my new tech demo? http://liranuna.com/junk/n900-google-maps | 08:02 |
| LiraNuna | need internet connection and it will create a directory called 'cache' | 08:02 |
| LiraNuna | if anyone can tell me why the touch screen is so slow (drawing speeds are awesome) will be much appriciated | 08:02 |
| RST38h | doing a lot of data exchange with the mmc? | 08:03 |
| LiraNuna | if any of you are concerned about malicious code, n900-google-maps | 08:03 |
| LiraNuna | er | 08:03 |
| LiraNuna | http://github.com/LiraNuna/n900-google-maps | 08:03 |
| LiraNuna | RST38h, nope, just drawing and reading touchscreen | 08:04 |
| LiraNuna | data is in GPU | 08:04 |
| LiraNuna | drawing speed seems fast, I believe the touchscreen is having hard time catching up | 08:05 |
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| RST38h | where is the cache/ ? | 08:06 |
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| LiraNuna | it'll create it in the same dir it's on | 08:07 |
| RST38h | ah | 08:07 |
| LiraNuna | assuming you have write access | 08:07 |
| RST38h | "The rankings in the books category of the US iTunes store features 40 out of 50 apps by the same app developer, Thuat Nguyen. What's more concerning is that it seems individuals' iTunes accounts have been hacked to make mass purchases of that one developer's apps." | 08:11 |
| RST38h | Lovely, lovely | 08:11 |
| LiraNuna | RST38h, any clue on the touchscreen issue? | 08:11 |
| * RST38h bets the "developer" has "borrowed" his books from the Gutenberg project | 08:11 | |
| RST38h | LiraNuna: my guess is that you are running it off mmc | 08:12 |
| LiraNuna | it doesn't do any file system I/O | 08:12 |
| RST38h | LiraNuna: or it is allocating huge blocks of memory causing swapping to the mmc | 08:12 |
| RST38h | ok, can I see your event loop? | 08:12 |
| LiraNuna | handled by Qt | 08:12 |
| RST38h | Could you show the even loop at your side? | 08:13 |
| RST38h | event | 08:13 |
| Milo- | http://github.com/LiraNuna/n900-google-maps/blob/master/source/googlemapwidget.cpp ::paintGL() ? | 08:13 |
| LiraNuna | http://pastie.org/private/oom8drmhdf78ov5zspxqgw | 08:13 |
| LiraNuna | not mcuh to it | 08:13 |
| RST38h | LiraNuna: measure time your paintGL() takes | 08:14 |
| LiraNuna | on it | 08:14 |
| RST38h | by inserting gettimeofday() | 08:14 |
| Milo- | or by using qtestlib and place all of the code inside "QBENCHMARK { }" -block | 08:15 |
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| LiraNuna | libQtTest is not available on the N900? | 08:20 |
| Milo- | oh yeah | 08:20 |
| Milo- | true | 08:20 |
| Milo- | probably | 08:20 |
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| asj | it's probably just not packaged by default | 08:22 |
| LiraNuna | /home/user/n900-google-maps: error while loading shared libraries: libQtTest.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 08:22 |
| RST38h | LiraNuna: gettimeofday(). | 08:23 |
| Milo- | gettimeofday gives better performance anyways | 08:23 |
| RST38h | LiraNuna: Forget the funny Qt crap. | 08:23 |
| LiraNuna | k | 08:24 |
| Milo- | using qtestlib is just the cute way of doing it | 08:24 |
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| zash | How is facebook info stored in the addr-book? | 08:26 |
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| LiraNuna | the speed veries | 08:29 |
| LiraNuna | http://pastie.org/private/aa6b6ev5x184tfuaptaoq | 08:30 |
| LiraNuna | am I doing it right? | 08:30 |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | is there a way to tell your SIP phone number from the client? | 08:31 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | not that I can't look it up with the provider, but I'd be surprised if it can't be seen | 08:32 |
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| luke-jr | oh: there is no inherent correlation between dialed extensions and SIP accounts | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | so your "phone number" could be different for every call | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | therefore, it is impossible for N900 to tell you that information | 08:33 |
| RST38h | liranuna: no | 08:33 |
| RST38h | liranuna: you have to account the usec difference as well | 08:33 |
| LiraNuna | I never used gettimeofday for benchmark | 08:34 |
| RST38h | liranuna: and you probably also want to print the time that passes between paintGL() calls, to see how long painting takes relative to the rest | 08:34 |
| RST38h | gettimeofday is not a benchmark, it simply reads system clock | 08:34 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr: calling via xmpp at 3am is a bad habit | 08:34 |
| LiraNuna | I understand | 08:34 |
| RST38h | All right, time to go to work | 08:35 |
| slonopotamus | (leaving sound enabled too) | 08:35 |
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| LiraNuna | http://pastie.org/private/eya99ikzepzwn9ukdaexla | 09:01 |
| LiraNuna | this confirms what I thought | 09:01 |
| LiraNuna | touchscreen polling is slow | 09:01 |
| asj | do you really have to poll the screen? | 09:03 |
| asj | or if you have to, can you push it off into a thread | 09:03 |
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| LiraNuna | asj, where's the 'development' forums? | 09:10 |
| LiraNuna | oh nv | 09:10 |
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| frals | baaah neeed coffeeeeee | 09:39 |
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| zash | frals: do make -C kitchen coffee | 09:40 |
| kerio | watch out if you use optimizations | 09:41 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | Good morning! | 09:46 |
| frals | mornin | 09:46 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | Great... boss is on vacation and he left a "small" to-do list on my desk. First task: rip and convert these 32 DVDs to proper format. Deadline: today | 10:22 |
| psycho_oreos | ask him for a raise when he comes back ;) | 10:23 |
| D-Iivil_Work | I wish I had more than seven hours to complete the task... or if the material were already at least in any_other_format than DVD. Takes ages to rip that pile :D | 10:23 |
| * D-Iivil_Work gets some coffee before doing anything | 10:23 | |
| psycho_oreos | not if you have those automated robotic arms that would automate the tasks more | 10:23 |
| D-Iivil_Work | psycho_oreos, luckily I have three _powerfull_ machines to do this job with, but still. | 10:24 |
| psycho_oreos | ones that push the drive door so that it opens, and an arm to grab the disc, put it onto a spindle and grab another one from the other spindle, put it into the drive and make the door close | 10:24 |
| D-Iivil_Work | Heh :P | 10:24 |
| psycho_oreos | lol you need those robotic arms, they ease off the work very easily | 10:24 |
| psycho_oreos | I don't know what they're called, but they're part of the professional copy/remastering tools | 10:25 |
| kerio | psycho_oreos: don't you have 32 drives? | 10:25 |
| psycho_oreos | rip them on one machine and farm off the work on the other machines so it'll convert in no time | 10:26 |
| * D-Iivil_Work writes note to himself: NEVER EVER ACCEPT STUFF FROM CLIENTS IN ANY OTHER MEDIA THAN HDD | 10:26 | |
| psycho_oreos | kerio, 32 virtual drives, yes :) | 10:26 |
| kerio | those are the best kind of drives! | 10:26 |
| kerio | not sure if they'll help you though | 10:26 |
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| psycho_oreos | they won't help D-Iivil_Work's case :) but like I said, one of those robotic thingys.. I'll google for it | 10:26 |
| D-Iivil_Work | Oh great. Just great. The contents of the DVD's are in one goddamn mpeg2 -file. That means I have to manually split the contents into separate files also. Fuck fuck fuck. | 10:27 |
| oh | I should change my name from 'oh' | 10:27 |
| kerio | at least you don't have to rip them | 10:28 |
| kerio | do you? | 10:28 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | kerio, sure I do. | 10:28 |
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| kerio | D-Iivil_Work: oh, an unsplit video dvd? | 10:28 |
| D-Iivil_Work | The case is: I have a pile of music videos delivered on 32 DVDs. Each DVD has ~20 videos or more. And at least three first discs are authorized in the way that every video is bounced into same goddamn file. | 10:28 |
| kerio | that... makes no sense | 10:29 |
| kerio | wtf | 10:29 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | kerio, well.. never ever underestimate the stupidity of a client who wants his material distributed and has no knowledge on computers or anything. | 10:29 |
| kerio | tell your boss you couldn't do it | 10:30 |
| kerio | because of... | 10:30 |
| kerio | incompatible bit-registration operators | 10:30 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kerio, the client made a "custom" dvd's where he delivers the stuff. | 10:30 |
| psycho_oreos | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfraqofgHTY | 10:30 |
| frals | timeless_mbp: ping | 10:30 |
| kerio | psycho_oreos: that's awesome | 10:30 |
| D-Iivil_Work | Well, the deadline is impossible :D | 10:30 |
| D-Iivil_Work | So I might just take a first break right now and think this through... | 10:31 |
| timeless_mbp | pong | 10:32 |
| frals | timeless_mbp: did you setup mxr for meego? | 10:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | part way | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp | mxr.moego.org/ | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp | the index is still not glued together | 10:32 |
| * timeless_mbp should glue it | 10:32 | |
| timeless_mbp | (and it isn't cron'd to update) | 10:33 |
| frals | alright, cheers | 10:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | -rw-rw-r-- 1 timeless timeless 1.6G Feb 20 20:46 repo.moblin.org/xref | 10:35 |
| timeless_mbp | scary, isn't it? | 10:35 |
| kerio | what's that? | 10:36 |
| timeless_mbp | the database behind a cross reference | 10:36 |
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| kerio | i have video files bigger than that | 10:37 |
| timeless_mbp | -rw-rw-r--+ 1 timeless pg922508 1.1G 2009-11-20 02:25 fremantle-20091116/xref | 10:37 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, but video files are supposed to be big | 10:37 |
| timeless_mbp | cross references are usually not very big | 10:37 |
| kerio | well, it depends on what they're cross-referencing | 10:38 |
| timeless_mbp | -rw-r--r-- 1 timeless timeless 66M Jul 5 03:48 /data/mxr-data/mozilla-central/xref | 10:38 |
| timeless_mbp | that's a typical cross reference database | 10:38 |
| timeless_mbp | the fremantle/moblin databases are … a tad bigger | 10:38 |
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| * timeless_mbp tries to remember where the pieces for the meego db live | 10:39 | |
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| timeless_mbp | 2.4Gtotal | 10:40 |
| timeless_mbp | is my estimated size for the meego db | 10:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | (that's assuming one can sum databases to get a useful result) | 10:40 |
| timeless_mbp | just the corresponding filedatabase for meego is bigger than mozilla-central's identifier database :o | 10:41 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | X-Fade, ping | 10:54 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | ~seen X-Fade | 10:56 |
| infobot | x-fade is currently on #maemo #meego, last said: 'Sure, let's see.'. | 10:56 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | Since X-Fade is somewhere away from keyboard, is there someone else who knows about repos? | 11:03 |
| nidO | depends what you ned to know about em? | 11:03 |
| D-Iivil_Work | Well, two guestions: why I can't see promote to extras link here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/black-plastic-theme/2.000/ | 11:04 |
| D-Iivil_Work | Package has 25 + votes and the three days quarantee has passed a while ago. | 11:04 |
| nidO | quarantine is 10 days | 11:04 |
| nidO | unless that's been altered recently | 11:04 |
| D-Iivil_Work | And secondly, why is the package description being overwritten by devel-version of the package (???) | 11:04 |
| D-Iivil_Work | nidO, ok. That explains it. I recalled it was three days. | 11:05 |
| D-Iivil_Work | The description is overwritten also for the extras-version of the package (it shows the description of the devel-version when browsin maemo.org/downloads | 11:06 |
| nidO | probably a package interface bug, that one will have to be taken up with x-fade | 11:06 |
| nidO | have you checked whether the description's also wrong when you view the package in ham? | 11:07 |
| D-Iivil_Work | nidO, pretty annoying bug since the extras version shows now completely wrong information on the description and is confusing the users (I'm gettin email from users that are asking where the hell is the features that are mentioned in the description) :-D | 11:07 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | nidO, will check that. Have to uninstall the package and disable devel first... plaah :D | 11:08 |
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| Venemo | good morning | 11:24 |
| nas_ | mornin' | 11:24 |
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| crashanddie | the TMO hamster is having a hard time with all the reporting, apparentluy | 12:10 |
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| timeless_mbp | (Pass 4) identifier 2763600 [kernel-2.6.33] of 419 / 963 files... | 12:15 |
| * timeless_mbp should change 'files' to 'databases' | 12:15 | |
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| Venemo | is there anyone here who is affiliated with the Hildon Extras project? | 12:18 |
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| thp | Jaffa: Reginald Stadlbauer != Founder of ITT ;) reggie's profile is at http://maemo.org/profile/view/rsuplido/ | 12:26 |
| thp | Jaffa: maybe you or someone else can change this link + name on the current mwkn.net issue | 12:27 |
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| crashanddie | chem|st: you could've at least waited until i got a few thanks for the mobile internet thread :( | 12:34 |
| crashanddie | chem|st: err, VoIP/mobile calls thread... Why did you move it back to OT? | 12:35 |
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| MohammadAG | X-Fade, ping :/ | 12:44 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | MohammadAG, _o/ | 13:08 |
| MohammadAG | o hai | 13:08 |
| MohammadAG | :p | 13:08 |
| FIQ | hi | 13:10 |
| FIQ | my battery has started to say it's low when it's not | 13:10 |
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| FIQ | i take off the back, and it doesn't sit in the battery-area at all | 13:11 |
| FIQ | (it goes off almost just when holding it upside-down | 13:11 |
| FIQ | ) | 13:11 |
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| dotblank | So I saw the thread about using your own voice for a navigation app | 13:12 |
| dotblank | then I couldn't help but think what if morgan freeman did this | 13:13 |
| dotblank | so on a whim I did a google search | 13:13 |
| dotblank | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsaki6RfTno | 13:13 |
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| kerio | dotblank: with what? ovi maps? | 13:14 |
| kerio | i thought it didn't support voice instructions | 13:14 |
| dotblank | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53845 | 13:14 |
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| kakashi_ | I actually flashed my n900 yesterday and now it is not detecting the Sim Card | 13:18 |
| kakashi_ | what might be the problem? | 13:18 |
| kakashi_ | any idea? | 13:18 |
| kakashi_ | or is it harware related? | 13:18 |
| nidO | did you flash to an older firmware? | 13:18 |
| kakashi_ | I tried all | 13:18 |
| kakashi_ | I flashed it into the latest one | 13:19 |
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| kakashi_ | as well as the older one | 13:19 |
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| kakashi_ | but it doesn't seem to recognize the sim card | 13:19 |
| mikki-kun | kakashi_: maybe the sim-contacts are a lil oxidised or something... you tried putting it in several times? | 13:19 |
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| kakashi_ | mikki-kun, yes, I did try putting it lots of times | 13:19 |
| kakashi_ | what should I use to clean the surface of the sim-contacts? | 13:20 |
| timeless_mbp | dotblank: awesome youtube link :) | 13:20 |
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| mikki-kun | hm... maybe trying the sim in another phone and another sim in the n900 could be 'helpful' in determining where the problem could be | 13:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | kakashi_: did you try a different phone? | 13:21 |
| kakashi_ | yes, the sim works on the other phone | 13:21 |
| kakashi_ | and it used to work till yesterday on n900 | 13:21 |
| timeless_mbp | ok.. | 13:21 |
| PupnikE71 | e71 is more readable in sunlight for some reasonn .. Transflective contrast seems higher than n900 | 13:21 |
| dotblank | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnBh94l-kwg | 13:21 |
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| kakashi_ | any ideas ? is it a firmware error? | 13:24 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd assume it's the contacts... | 13:24 |
| kakashi_ | what is the right way of flashing ? eMMC and then rootfs or rootfs and eMMC, I am not rebooting in the middle, so I thought both are the same | 13:24 |
| MohammadAG | same if you don't reboot in between | 13:25 |
| MohammadAG | preferably eMMC then rootfs | 13:25 |
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| kakashi_ | hmm... anyways, is there something that I can use to clean the contacts myself? | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | the n900 comes w/ a user guide | 13:26 |
| kakashi_ | I used the tissue paper till now | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | you could check to see if this is covered... | 13:26 |
| kakashi_ | it does? | 13:27 |
| kakashi_ | I mean I got the n900 w/o user guide | 13:27 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | Is there a "softer" way to reload hildon-home than just doing "killall hildon-home"? | 13:28 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | Because the default theme selector does that but I cannot figure out how it does it. | 13:28 |
| D-Iivil_Work | (killing hildon-home causes python widgets to disappear and they have to be manually re-added) | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | kakashi_: it's electronic | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | open file manager | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | it should be in documents > user guide or something | 13:29 |
| kakashi_ | aha! | 13:30 |
| kakashi_ | okay | 13:30 |
| kerio | D-Iivil_Work: probably some dbus message? | 13:30 |
| timeless_mbp | there's also a tiny pamphlet that comes w/ the n900 | 13:30 |
| timeless_mbp | not sure what's in it | 13:30 |
| timeless_mbp | but since you own your n900, you should consider checking them before you attack it :) | 13:30 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kerio, I was thinking that too. Is there a way to monitor the dbus and find out what the theme selector does when changing theme? | 13:30 |
| kakashi_ | I am right now on linux, I tried using PC-Suit on windows 7 and it was not able to detect n900 through PC Mode | 13:30 |
| timeless_mbp | D-Iivil_Work: dbus-monitor is easy... | 13:30 |
| joga | user guides? meh :) | 13:30 |
| kerio | PFFFFFFFFFF USER GUIDE | 13:31 |
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| kerio | just ask here your dumb questions | 13:31 |
| kerio | eventually, someone will answer | 13:31 |
| D-Iivil_Work | timeless_mbp, guidance would be highly appreciated ;) | 13:31 |
| timeless_mbp | D-Iivil_Work: lmgtfy.com | 13:31 |
| joga | most user guides don't answer dumb questions anyway | 13:31 |
| D-Iivil_Work | timeless_mbp, yeah. | 13:31 |
| timeless_mbp | http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dbus+monitor | 13:31 |
| kerio | D-Iivil_Work: dbus-monitor > log | 13:32 |
| kerio | then just do it | 13:32 |
| kerio | then open the log and see what's the message | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | technically there are two main buses, the system one and the user one | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | but i'd hope you only care about the default bus | 13:32 |
| kerio | timeless_mbp: worst case scenario, he can just run it as root and catch everything | 13:32 |
| kerio | (that does catch everything, doesn't it? | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't think so | 13:32 |
| kerio | gaah mismatched parenthesis) | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i think the buses are distinct by name, not by owner | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | well, they might be distinct by user too, but... | 13:33 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 13:33 | |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 13:33 | |
| timeless_mbp | maybe you have to be root to monitor the system bus | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | but yeah, sudo su isn't that hard :) | 13:33 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | timeless_mbp, heh, I was using wrong search terms: http://www.google.com/search?q=n900+monitor+dbus&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:fi:official&client=firefox-a | 13:34 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | timeless_mbp, thanks :) | 13:34 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 13:36 | |
| timeless_mbp | Mem: 1740944k total, 1722920k used, 18024k free, 38432k buffers | 13:36 |
| chem|st | crashanddie: is it about maemo or NITs or maemo.org? | 13:36 |
| timeless_mbp | 17291 timeless 18 0 88076 83m 2380 D 10.4 4.9 16:22.06 perl | 13:36 |
| * timeless_mbp is probably running out of memory | 13:36 | |
| chem|st | crashanddie: or corresponding? | 13:36 |
| crashanddie | chem|st: it's about VoIP, which is still one of the main usages of the NITs | 13:37 |
| crashanddie | s/ages// | 13:37 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: chem|st: it's about VoIP, which is still one of the main us of the NITs | 13:37 |
| crashanddie | crapper | 13:37 |
| chem|st | hehe | 13:37 |
| crashanddie | *uses | 13:37 |
| D-Iivil_Work | Noup.. nothing intresting in dbus -log regarding theme changing :-/ | 13:38 |
| chem|st | well voip is one of the uses... but thats about voip plans and off-topic is not rant or useless it is just not on topic | 13:38 |
| crashanddie | chem|st: I just figure if we allow threads about Nokia's financial numbers in General, we might also leave informative posts about VoIPs | 13:38 |
| chem|st | there is a serious missunderstanding in off-topic afait | 13:38 |
| chem|st | o_O | 13:39 |
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| crashanddie | Well, I would like to see a garbage section | 13:40 |
| crashanddie | so that off topic can be useful | 13:40 |
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| crashanddie | because at the moment, having off topic not show up in the active threads, and not being able to thank means that you're wasting time trying to be helpful | 13:41 |
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| chem|st | crashanddie: thats my point, lots of off-topic is garbage and not even worth off-topic | 13:42 |
| chem|st | but off-topic is most of the time answered somewhere else in www so it is ok with me to have no postcount or thanks for that as lmgtfy would bring the same answers | 13:43 |
| crashanddie | only because we're breeding that | 13:44 |
| crashanddie | as much as general, n900 and maemo 5 forums are also 90% LMGTFY-worthy | 13:45 |
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| crashanddie | heh, finally had a slashdot post that had the nice "Read the rest of this comment" link | 13:52 |
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| kakashi_ | I don't get this! heh! till now I had problems with the sim card detection on my n900, I kept flashing and finally when I flashed with RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.004_PR_COMBINED_004_ARM.bin it detects the simcard | 13:56 |
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| kakashi_ | how is this possible | 13:56 |
| MohammadAG | coincidence possibly | 13:57 |
| MohammadAG | my SIM card's contacts are fu**ed up, I just have a 1mm paper on the sim top | 13:57 |
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| kakashi_ | hmm... | 13:58 |
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| MohammadAG | get a sim card replacement | 13:59 |
| MohammadAG | you didn't really have to flash it | 13:59 |
| kakashi_ | weird, I tried the older versions of the rootfs images and I couldn't connect to PC-Suite | 13:59 |
| kakashi_ | though, I use linux mostly on my system, I installed windows 7 for PC-Suite and that too was a fail :-| | 14:00 |
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| kakashi_ | let me again revert to windows 7 and check if the PC-Suite functionality works | 14:01 |
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| MohammadAG | damn it's quiet in here today | 14:13 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG, monday morning | 14:13 |
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| mikki-kun | *playing his music louder* | 14:14 |
| mikki-kun | better? ;) | 14:14 |
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| frals | MohammadAG: its july, half the world is on vacation! | 14:15 |
| MohammadAG | I thought #maemo is from the other half | 14:15 |
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| lcuk | mikki-kun, what are you listening to? | 14:16 |
| lcuk | and is it alterego whos made music choice over IM - it needs irc ;) | 14:17 |
| mikki-kun | frals: does that stop people from going online with their n900s via 3g? ;) | 14:17 |
| mikki-kun | Samsas Traum - DerDieDas \ Weena Morloch | 14:17 |
| frals | mikki-kun: depending on location, yes most likely ;-) | 14:17 |
| mikki-kun | lcuk: i have also other stuff here lying around... | 14:19 |
| lcuk | thats ok, you can keep it over there | 14:19 |
| lcuk | :P | 14:19 |
| mikki-kun | you know it? | 14:19 |
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| mikki-kun | i mean "do you know samsas traum?" ^^''' damn, that was really bad engrish from me | 14:21 |
| frals | bah charging this logitech wireless mouse while using it was a bad idea | 14:21 |
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| MohammadAG | frals, mice? pfft, use trouts | 14:22 |
| chem|st | crashanddie: as I said... I move 20+ threads each time I open tmo, I guess inbetween there are 25+ more which are in the wrong place, do the math... | 14:23 |
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| * D-Iivil_Work bangs his head against the wall | 14:29 | |
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| mikki-kun | D-Iivil_Work: take some ibuprofen afterwards, kills the headache | 14:31 |
| D-Iivil_Work | mikki-kun, I think only thing that's gonna help is a 9mm ibuprofen made of metal | 14:31 |
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| mikki-kun | have fun chewing on that one... gives you toothache as well =p | 14:32 |
| D-Iivil_Work | mikki-kun, I wasn't gonna take that myself. I'll pass it to one of our customers... | 14:32 |
| mikki-kun | ahhhh, what's he asking special for? new physicsengine in RL? | 14:33 |
| mikki-kun | or better, a windows which doesn't crash? :D | 14:33 |
| D-Iivil_Work | mikki-kun, noup... just fails on delivering the material in any human readable format and making us (=me) doing plenty of unnecessary job. | 14:34 |
| mikki-kun | hm, those people generally are annoying like hell | 14:36 |
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| mikki-kun | mahhh, that's as well annoying as hell -.- stupid servers seems to be down -.- | 14:39 |
| D-Iivil_Work | mikki-kun, so you can put your legs on the table and grab a coffee since you cannot do anything while servers are down? ;) | 14:40 |
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| mikki-kun | trying again, maybe the server lost my session | 14:40 |
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| mikki-kun | that is just so not cool :( i need to search for a room and the server of the site which lists them isn't playing fair... :( | 14:42 |
| kwtm | Hi. Need some advice on "extras-devel" and how to stay safe. | 14:42 |
| mikki-kun | kwtm: hm, what kind of advice are you specifically looking for? | 14:42 |
| kwtm | If there is a package on "extras-devel" which is known to be safe (or which I trust), then do I understand correctly that I can enable extras-devel, install the package, and then disable extras-devel again? | 14:43 |
| MiXu- | Yes. | 14:43 |
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| kwtm | That is, the danger of extras-devel is that I try to do updates with that repository enabled, and Maemo thinks there are cool updates to my existing packages which are in fact not-quite-tested buggy replacements for the stable versions, correct? | 14:43 |
| kwtm | If I do not update while extras-devel is enabled, I stay safe? | 14:43 |
| kwtm | (I am asking because I really REALLY want to install mc 'midnight commander' while avoiding a crash) | 14:44 |
| mikki-kun | hm, though installing a package maybe relies on dependancies which are marked as instable and are therefore updated... | 14:44 |
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| MohammadAG | Install it, it's safe | 14:44 |
| kwtm | MohammadAG: Thanks for the vote of confidence. But... I can't find mc on extras-devel. Did it get promoted to extras-testing? | 14:44 |
| mikki-kun | but generally extras-devel is pretty "stable" | 14:45 |
| MohammadAG | http://maemo.org/packages/view/mc/ | 14:45 |
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| kwtm | mikki-kun: Good point. I guess I should look at the dependencies... | 14:45 |
| MohammadAG | even if I promoted it, it'd stay in -devel | 14:45 |
| lcuk | kwtm, its in devel for a reason, if you think its safe after your testing then please contact the developer so it can be poshed further towards main extras | 14:45 |
| mikki-kun | i have it enabled per default so in case i see some really nasty bugs i can report that | 14:45 |
| lcuk | so others dont have to have this discussion | 14:45 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, it's in devel cause I cba to push it into testing | 14:46 |
| MohammadAG | lame reason, I know, but the QA is a pita tbh | 14:46 |
| kwtm | lcuk: Well, I don't think I have enough to make any difference, but it sounds like from MohammadAG that some packages are quite stable but would stay in devel --is that what you meant, MohammadAG? | 14:46 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, \@ | 14:46 |
| kwtm | Ah, I see. | 14:46 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, push through the pain barrier and try | 14:46 |
| * lcuk will also try soon too :) | 14:47 | |
| lcuk | tho i have NFI how to optify liqbase ;) | 14:47 |
| kwtm | Meanwhile, a more newbie-ish question --having enabled extras-devel (by accident, actually), I see lots of juicy apps listed in App Manager --but can I read more details in a web page, the way I can see the extras apps in "http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/"? | 14:47 |
| * lcuk smiles cos liqbase should run happily on n810 | 14:47 | |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, no f'ing idea? :P | 14:48 |
| kwtm | For example, MohammadAG you just gave me the web page for mc --how did you find it? How can I find the web page for the other apps? | 14:48 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, call maemo-optify in debian/rules | 14:48 |
| lcuk | kwtm, http://maemo.org/packages/ | 14:48 |
| MohammadAG | http://maemo.org/packages/view/$packagename | 14:48 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, no its actually something maemo-optify-boottime could deal with but im just adding the one folder to /opt :) | 14:48 |
| lcuk | /usr/share/liqbase will go into opt | 14:48 |
| lcuk | and everything under liqbase should then be nicely optified | 14:49 |
| * lcuk does have a plan for it | 14:49 | |
| MohammadAG | maemo-optify would've been easier | 14:49 |
| MohammadAG | :p | 14:49 |
| lcuk | not really | 14:49 |
| kwtm | lcuk: Thank you. Will be useful. | 14:49 |
| lcuk | because thats app level | 14:49 |
| lcuk | and i have many apps | 14:49 |
| lcuk | and its just a brainfart | 14:49 |
| MohammadAG | oh, right | 14:49 |
| MohammadAG | I forgot | 14:49 |
| * MohammadAG nods | 14:49 | |
| kwtm | One other app I'd like your opinion on whether it's stable, and I | 14:49 |
| lcuk | do it once, and its solved | 14:49 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | PIZZA TIME! | 14:49 |
| kwtm | One other app I'd like your opinion on whether it's stable, and I'll be happy: is PyQt for Maemo ok to install? | 14:50 |
| lcuk | kwtm, people do not usually install pyqt on its own :p | 14:50 |
| lcuk | but theres many apps using it | 14:50 |
| lcuk | healthcheck is one such app | 14:50 |
| lcuk | which also serves as a nice python/qt example of how to read system information | 14:51 |
| kwtm | lcuk: Well, I'm hoping to write some quick & dirty apps with it just for myself. Is that the wrong package? | 14:51 |
| MohammadAG | healthcheck has more comments than the IRC log for yesterday | 14:51 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 14:51 |
| lcuk | lol | 14:51 |
| kwtm | I learned Python but not PyGTK --I'd rather invest my time in learning Qt if I can. | 14:51 |
| lcuk | kwtm, sure have a play if you feel comfy there | 14:51 |
| lcuk | nothing blocking you byeond the usual "im a developer let me at -devel stuff" | 14:52 |
| lcuk | so fight the grue, file bugs and patches if things are noticed and have fun | 14:52 |
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| kwtm | MohammadAG: Thank you for maintaining MC for Maemo. It still doesn't show up on App Manager or "View All Packages" (ie. http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/). Can I download the package directly from the mc web page you gave? | 14:53 |
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| kwtm | Can I do something like "sudo dpkg -i mc-armel-whateverfilename"? | 14:53 |
| MohammadAG | yes, but you'll need to sort out deps on your own | 14:53 |
| MohammadAG | sudo apt-get install mc <-- much easier | 14:53 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 14:53 |
| MohammadAG | morning Jaffa | 14:53 |
| Jaffa | thp: Ah, yes - that happened before | 14:53 |
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| kwtm | MohammadAG: apt-get install will sort out deps? How come it's not in the repository any more? I read some forum comments and some people were saying that mc was there but no longer? Anyway, will try now on my n900 | 14:54 |
| Jaffa | thp: Fixed | 14:54 |
| MohammadAG | it is there, I'm sure of that | 14:54 |
| MohammadAG | anyways, uploading new version to push it into -testing | 14:54 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, happy? | 14:54 |
| lcuk | :) | 14:55 |
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| lcuk | thanks MohammadAG, of course im happy! | 14:55 |
| kwtm | Aww, *CRUMM*, I'm not putting in the right sudo password. | 14:55 |
| kwtm | If I installed OpenSSH server and set the root password, that's the password I should use to sudo, right? | 14:56 |
| lcuk | this is a file select dooferbob, its been automagically used in landscape and portrait, does it look usable still in portrait mode | 14:56 |
| lcuk | <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20100705_030458.ctrlfile_picker.scr.png | 14:56 |
| lcuk | <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20100705_030406.ctrlfile_picker.scr.png | 14:56 |
| lcuk | kwtm, no | 14:56 |
| lcuk | openssh is not sudo | 14:56 |
| MohammadAG | does sudo even work without tweaking it? | 14:56 |
| lcuk | :) to login as root on your tablet if you havent installed rootsh | 14:56 |
| lcuk | ssh root@localhost | 14:57 |
| * MohammadAG uses localhost for scp | 14:57 | |
| MohammadAG | progress bars ftw | 14:57 |
| kwtm | Oh, wait, you're right --if "user" does sudo, then it's "user" | 14:57 |
| kwtm | Oh, wait, you're right --if "user" does sudo, then it's "user"'s password that I have to type. | 14:57 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 14:57 |
| Venemo | hi guys | 14:57 |
| kwtm | (Sorry, I keep hitting <Enter> instead of apostrophe.) But how do I know what user's password is? I never set one. | 14:58 |
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| MohammadAG | no one knows it | 14:58 |
| D-Iivil_Work | John Nokia knows it for sure! | 14:58 |
| kwtm | So I have to ssh root@localhost, change user's password, and then put that password in? | 14:58 |
| D-Iivil_Work | Or Chuck Norris | 14:58 |
| Venemo | if I create a .c file in which I have #include <hildon/hildon.h> (and nothing else), it gives me 4 errors about HildonUIMode and HildonGtkInputMode not being declared | 14:58 |
| MohammadAG | or just run it as root | 14:58 |
| Venemo | does anyone have an idea about what I'm doing wrong? | 14:59 |
| kwtm | MohammadAG: Run as root --true. Will try to stay with sudo since my Kubuntu uses that, which will make porting my scripts easier. | 14:59 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, I guess you need to add sudoers for your scripts to be able to use sudo -command before scripts. | 14:59 |
| D-Iivil_Work | (that's what I was told to do= | 15:00 |
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| kwtm | D-Iivil_Work: Does that mean I add "user" to the group "admin"/"sudoers"/something? Or is "sudoers" a command I need to run? | 15:02 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, hold on | 15:02 |
| kwtm | holding on now ... since I seem to have forgotten my root password as well. :P Looking it up... | 15:03 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, you need to place a asdflkjasdf.sudoers -file under /etc/sudoers.d | 15:03 |
| D-Iivil_Work | And that asdfjkl.sudoers -file must include this: user ALL = NOPASSWD: /path/to/yoursrcipt | 15:04 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, and then run "update-sudoers" -command in xterm with root priviledges | 15:04 |
| D-Iivil_Work | After that you can run your script with sudo -command | 15:04 |
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| kwtm | D-Iivil_Work: Thank you for all that info. | 15:06 |
| MohammadAG | D-Iivil_Work, he's not using a script | 15:06 |
| D-Iivil_Work | MohammadAG, okay. | 15:06 |
| MohammadAG | :) | 15:06 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, then forget everything I just said :D | 15:06 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 15:06 |
| MohammadAG | adding a lot of stuff to sudoers is a bit of a security risk | 15:06 |
| D-Iivil_Work | MohammadAG, he was talking about testing his scripts so I assumed it's script we're talking about :-( | 15:07 |
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| * D-Iivil_Work wipes the sweat from his forehead. 24 DVDs ripped, splitted and converted, eight to go. | 15:08 | |
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| norayr | hello people | 15:11 |
| norayr | :) | 15:11 |
| kwtm | Hi. I think I'm back --laptop's battery decided go to from 19% to 5% in 30 seconds and the computer shut down on me. | 15:11 |
| norayr | probably you know about kernel rotatoin support described here http://wiki.maemo.org/Rotation#N810 | 15:12 |
| kwtm | Anyway, D-Iivil_Work: I *am* putting this in a script, so your info is useful. (I've decided to put everything in a script so I can easily reproduce the work when my n900 crashes again.) | 15:12 |
| norayr | so, installation described by reflashing the device. | 15:12 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, thank MohammadAG since he just guided me how to do the sudoers stuff. I | 15:12 |
| norayr | i have problem with it as I use copied maemo on another partiotion | 15:12 |
| norayr | and never use the one which is on JFFS | 15:13 |
| norayr | and so | 15:13 |
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| norayr | so i wonder | 15:13 |
| norayr | anyone heard of an option | 15:13 |
| kwtm | Thanks, MohammadAG. And now a sort of dumb question. For some reason it's not taking the root password that I put in when I installed OpenSSH Client+Server. Can I reset the password by uninstalling, then reinstalling OpenSSH Client+Server? | 15:13 |
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| norayr | howto install rotation kernel module | 15:13 |
| norayr | without it | 15:13 |
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| MohammadAG | kwtm, install rootsh, purge openssh-server then reinstall it | 15:14 |
| norayr | i mean without reflashing. is it possible to recompile kernel myself? or just get kernel headers and compile the module against them? | 15:14 |
| kwtm | MohammadAG: Was just about to ask if rootsh was a better option. Ok, will do so now. | 15:14 |
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| * kwtm spent the last 5 minutes scrolling through the apps list to get to R (for "rootsh") and has a sore thumb. | 15:16 | |
| zash | kwtm: did you try pressing the R key? | 15:16 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, why don't you just start typing the name of the app... | 15:17 |
| D-Iivil_Work | zash beat me to it :P | 15:17 |
| kwtm | Hmm, strange, the installation process of "rootsh" did not involve me setting the root password ... wonder how I'll gain root. Anyway, will uninstall OpenSSH and then reinstall. (That's the same as purge and reinstall, right?) | 15:17 |
| kwtm | What, typing the name of the app will seek to the app? I tried that already. I wish that feature were in place. | 15:18 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, you'll get root priviledges by typing this into xterm after installing rootsh: sudo gainroot | 15:18 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, after that you're root and everything you launch from that terminal session are ran as root | 15:18 |
| kwtm | Oh, wow! I'm root. That makes it easy. | 15:18 |
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| kwtm | Then apt-get install mc, I guess... will save "sudo" later... | 15:19 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, you realize you need to be root before running mc or you won't be able to browse through "root" folders ;) | 15:19 |
| kwtm | D-Iivil_Work: Do I have to be root before running mc to browse through user's directories? ("directories"! Not "folders" --that's for MS Windows GUI people) | 15:20 |
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| ham5 | its a single user os | 15:21 |
| kwtm | I mainly want mc so I can send files over Fish/SSh without having to type the exactly correct pathname --ie. use mc to browse. I hope that feature is included. | 15:21 |
| frals | hmpf, lots of twitterhate on my hello kitty pillow :( | 15:21 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, noup. | 15:21 |
| kwtm | ham5: By "user" I mean the single user, who is named "user". | 15:21 |
| kwtm | D-Iivil_Work: Ohh.... I have to be root just to run mc at all? | 15:21 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, no you don't have to. | 15:21 |
| norayr | ppl, sorry for asking again: anyone heard where to get sources of kernel rotation support module for OS2008 | 15:21 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, if you run mc as user you'll be able to browse only user's directories and files. | 15:22 |
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| kwtm | D-Iivil_Work: That's all I need. I just want to send files over the network and have a decent directory browser. | 15:22 |
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| kwtm | Uh oh. I'm running mc now (thanks for all the help to all of you, btw) and ... how do I get function keys on the keyboard? | 15:23 |
| D-Iivil_Work | kwtm, okay then :) I find mc pretty difficult to use with touchscreen though. So I'll just do everything from command line. | 15:23 |
| kwtm | I can't even select the F10 button to quit! | 15:23 |
| kwtm | D-Iivil_Work: As I mentioned, I'm using mc as a replacement for scp, so I don't have to memorize the exactly correct pathname on the server computer to retrieve a file. | 15:24 |
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| kwtm | Especially when half the characters in the filename need to be typed on the Symbols virtual keyboard. | 15:24 |
| kwtm | MohammadAG: Help! How do I get function keys to use mc on the n900? | 15:25 |
| MohammadAG | kwtm, you can use the on screen buttons | 15:25 |
| MohammadAG | I'd rather use terminal | 15:25 |
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| kwtm | Oh!!! THe touchscreen works! I thought this was like the console variety which ignores my mouse. | 15:26 |
| kwtm | Okay, I was able to figure out that Esc-9 is the same as F9. This will let me take away the top menu bar and bottom key bar and get more screen real estate for the actual mc panels. | 15:26 |
| kwtm | Hmm... insert. Where's the insert key for selecting... <mumble mumble> | 15:28 |
| lcuk | frals, you deserve a ribbing for hello kitty pillow - unless its on mrs frals side of the bed | 15:28 |
| kwtm | MohammadAG: I'd rather use terminal, too ... unless I have to retrieve a file from the server and don't know the exact name. | 15:28 |
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| frals | lcuk: it is | 15:29 |
| lcuk | then its all good! | 15:30 |
| lcuk | glad you are settling in :) | 15:30 |
| frals | aye me too, tis great to have a home again | 15:30 |
| kwtm | frals: Should we believe you about which side of the bed the pillow is on? :) | 15:30 |
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| frals | kwtm: ;) | 15:30 |
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| frals | lcuk: only downside is eta for home inet conn is 3 weeks >_< | 15:30 |
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| frals | and not a single wlan in range of my apartment that is open/wep :( | 15:31 |
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| lcuk | frals, not the end of the world, you work at nokia! you should use the time to test some gigabit 7g wireless neural connect internet technology | 15:31 |
| frals | :D | 15:31 |
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| kwtm | Whoa, wait, what?? Frals works at nokia? In the n900 department, hopefully? | 15:32 |
| frals | just waiting for my cell operator to yell at me for using obscene amount of data on phone | 15:32 |
| lcuk | frals when they do complain just say you were ircing in #maemo :p | 15:32 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 15:33 |
| frals | lcuk: :D | 15:33 |
| lcuk | my god kylie gets better and better everytime she performs | 15:33 |
| kerio | wtf | 15:33 |
| kwtm | Oh, no, n900 is slowing down again. It looks like it's going to crash soon. | 15:33 |
| kerio | why can't i push "y" at apt-get's prompt? | 15:33 |
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| frals | videocalling to the mrs frals over skype isnt to friendly on the data usage :p | 15:33 |
| frals | -ths | 15:33 |
| frals | -the* | 15:33 |
| kerio | use wifi | 15:34 |
| kerio | aircrack works | 15:34 |
| frals | wpa2? | 15:34 |
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| lcuk | ewwww id rather pay for legit connection than send data over a hacked stream | 15:34 |
| kerio | maybe in a couple fo years, but sure | 15:34 |
| kerio | *of | 15:34 |
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| MohammadAG | aircrack works to decrypt the key, does it work for dumping packets or injecting crap? | 15:34 |
| frals | hence me using 3g :p | 15:34 |
| kwtm | Isn't the ETA to cracking wpa2 somewhat longer than the wait before getting your broadband installed? | 15:34 |
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| kerio | MohammadAG: monitor mode works | 15:35 |
| kerio | and packed injecting works too, as i've been told | 15:35 |
| MohammadAG | needs a patch afaik | 15:35 |
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| kerio | i think you just need kernel-power | 15:35 |
| frals | lcuk: yeah, im sticking to 3g ;) | 15:35 |
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| kerio | hey, the "mouse" works in mc | 15:35 |
| kerio | awesome | 15:35 |
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| kwtm | kerio: Oh, you like mc, too, hmm? I just installed it myself. | 15:36 |
| kerio | i installed it after hearing that from you, actually | 15:38 |
| kerio | (mc *is* awesome) | 15:38 |
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| kwtm | Hmm... well, this time I managed to enter my password but there has been a suspiciously long delay (still ongoing) while I'm waiting for it to read in the remote directory... | 15:39 |
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| frals | for the record, easystroke is friggin awesome | 15:42 |
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| lcuk | frals, on desktop or 900 | 15:43 |
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| pupnik | you could have a screen that rotates 90 degrees to reveal a one-handed e71 style keyboard | 15:44 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, just tried aircrack | 15:44 |
| pupnik | that might look too weird eh | 15:44 |
| MohammadAG | it fails on the first step | 15:44 |
| MohammadAG | no iw | 15:44 |
| lcuk | pupnik, ive seen some mobile designs similar afaik | 15:44 |
| kerio | airodump-ng correctly sets monitor mode here | 15:44 |
| frals | lcuk: on desktop | 15:44 |
| * lcuk nods | 15:44 | |
| lcuk | try it on n900 ;) | 15:44 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, and airmon-ng? | 15:45 |
| * pupnik just rubbed what smells like bee-wax all over a table | 15:45 | |
| pupnik | i think i should have done a preserving oil first | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: 1.2 is flashing modem with new incompatible firmware (kakashi) | 15:45 |
| kwtm | frals: easystroke is what, exactly? Text input by gesture? | 15:45 |
| frals | lcuk: hehe, might actually try that.. could be awesome! | 15:46 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, hmm? | 15:46 |
| kwtm | Blast it, mc is not accepting my password to log in remotely. I'll have to get a private/public key pair. :P | 15:46 |
| frals | kwtm: anything with gestures pretty much | 15:46 |
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| MohammadAG | bah, cba to crack my own network, I know my password | 15:46 |
| kwtm | frals: Not found in extras-devel. Worthwhile hunting down? | 15:46 |
| X-Fade | Sometimes you really wonder what the **** is going on with version dependencies: | 15:47 |
| X-Fade | Setting up libqt4-dev (4.6.2~git20100401-0maemo1+0m5) ... | 15:47 |
| X-Fade | Unable to satisfy build-deps: libqt4-dev (>= 4.6.2) | 15:47 |
| frals | dont think its available for n900, im using it on my desktop ubuntu | 15:47 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, ~ is backwards version isnt it? | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: kakashi went back to older fiasko, after flashing to Pr1.2, so his modem will fail due to modem firmware of 1.2 breaks 1.1.1 | 15:47 |
| lcuk | am i mad for recalling something like that with the weird parsing order | 15:47 |
| kwtm | frals: Oh. You mean using gestures on your desktop? You're gesturing with your mouse, then? It's not for me, then. | 15:47 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | X-Fade, you have a minute? | 15:48 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, oh, I know that, how old was that conversation though? | 15:48 |
| frals | kwtm: yes | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | this morning | 15:48 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Well, it should resolve the plain part first, iirc. | 15:48 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 15:48 |
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| X-Fade | D-Iivil_Work: Sure | 15:48 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, i understand, but the ~ after 2 makes it <2 | 15:49 |
| D-Iivil_Work | X-Fade, can you explain me why is package description taken from devel version of the package to the extras-version? | 15:49 |
| lcuk | or something odd | 15:49 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, hasn't the version always been like that? | 15:49 |
| X-Fade | D-Iivil_Work: It asumes newest version is best. | 15:49 |
| D-Iivil_Work | X-Fade, I mean, if you look here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/black-plastic-theme/ that description is not from the extras-version. It's taken from devel version which has a lot more functionality than extras-version and ofcource I have written those features in the description field.. | 15:50 |
| MohammadAG | D-Iivil_Work, the one in HAM should be fine | 15:50 |
| X-Fade | D-Iivil_Work: Yes, it takes everything from the most recent version. | 15:50 |
| D-Iivil_Work | X-Fade, what's the point of that? That makes sense inside one repo, but when spread to all repos and not following the versions that's very confusing. | 15:51 |
| X-Fade | That was a design decision, made sense back then ;) | 15:51 |
| D-Iivil_Work | X-Fade, it would be ok if it took it from most recent extras-version. | 15:51 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | X-Fade, how much beer was involved in that meeting? :D | 15:51 |
| MohammadAG | X-Fade, do you mind reversing my f up? :) | 15:51 |
| X-Fade | Will change at some point in the future though, it is not a trivial fix though. | 15:51 |
| lcuk | "The lexical comparison is a comparison of ASCII values modified so that all the letters sort earlier than all the non-letters and so that a tilde sorts before anything, even the end of a part. " | 15:52 |
| lcuk | http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version | 15:52 |
| D-Iivil_Work | X-Fade, it even seems to take the package name from devel version :-/ I mean the user friendly name set in control -file... | 15:52 |
| MohammadAG | X-Fade, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel/ and http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/k/kernel/ | 15:53 |
| X-Fade | D-Iivil_Work: Everything, even icons etc. | 15:53 |
| MohammadAG | I should've changed the source name | 15:53 |
| X-Fade | It is just the way the db schema is designed. | 15:53 |
| D-Iivil_Work | X-Fade, that seems stupid since they_are_completely_separate_repos aren't they? :D | 15:53 |
| MohammadAG | A user who tries to install the kernel will see an error | 15:53 |
| MohammadAG | that it is provided by a different package | 15:53 |
| nidO | D-Iivil_Work they are, but from a design point of view the idea is that they feed into each other | 15:54 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG: You should not have uploaded kernel at all yes. | 15:54 |
| D-Iivil_Work | X-Fade, anyways, just though letting you know. But since it's already under your knowledge then I guess I have nothing else to ask :P | 15:54 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG: I guess there was even a warning in your build log mail?> | 15:54 |
| MohammadAG | X-Fade, yeah, I noticed it yesterday in the SDK and today on device | 15:54 |
| D-Iivil_Work | Gotta go now. Cya guys later. | 15:54 |
| MohammadAG | nope | 15:54 |
| MohammadAG | not that I remember, sec | 15:54 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG: Shall I remove it? | 15:54 |
| MohammadAG | X-Fade, please :) | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG | I'll rebuild it with a different name | 15:55 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG: yeah, look at kernel-power for instance. | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG | X-Fade, anything on perl-modules? frozen-bubble got -4 cause the package is missing :) | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG | X-Fade, already figured it out :) | 15:55 |
| norayr | heeeeeeeeeeey, peeeeeeeeople. any tip about installing portrait mode kernel module on OS2008? | 15:56 |
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| norayr | without reflashing the device, as I run maemo from the different partiotion | 15:56 |
| norayr | how to do it by reflashing is described here http://wiki.maemo.org/Rotation#N810 | 15:57 |
| lcuk | :) | 15:57 |
| lcuk | norayr, enjoying your n800? :) | 15:57 |
| norayr | yep, my n810 :) | 15:57 |
| lcuk | wicked | 15:57 |
| norayr | and i use opera | 15:58 |
| * lcuk should really build latest liqbase on it | 15:58 | |
| norayr | which supports rotation id kernel module is installed | 15:58 |
| norayr | i can compile it from sources, i have gcc on the tables | 15:58 |
| norayr | tablet* | 15:58 |
| norayr | just where to find them... | 15:58 |
| norayr | and whether module source is open | 15:58 |
| nidO | heh, ebay shill bidder fined 5 grand and ordered to do 250 hours community service | 15:58 |
| norayr | :) | 15:58 |
| lcuk | norayr, i believe the rotation code is open | 15:59 |
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| norayr | thats great. however no link in the mentioned wiki articel | 16:00 |
| norayr | article* | 16:00 |
| lcuk | norayr, have you tried http://sse2.net/rotate/ | 16:00 |
| * lcuk thanks jott once again | 16:01 | |
| norayr | let me take a look :) | 16:01 |
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| norayr | they use flasher for installation... again. i'll try to find any source link from there | 16:03 |
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| lcuk | norayr, lots of people happily rotated n8x0 using jotts code, i think a later update and some bitrot have occured, if you do get it working and the instructions have changed could you please try to update the wiki with later info | 16:05 |
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| mirf | ey up pupnik_ | 16:05 |
| pupnik_ | hi mirf | 16:06 |
| norayr | lcuk: sure, necessarily :) | 16:06 |
| pupnik_ | congratulations to finland for winning the world Wife-Carrying Championship! | 16:06 |
| mirf | lol | 16:06 |
| lcuk | lol pupnik_ i saw that and giggled | 16:06 |
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| mikki-kun | w00t? | 16:15 |
| w00t_ | yes? | 16:16 |
| mikki-kun | pupnik_: wanna post a link? | 16:16 |
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| mikki-kun | ohhh, soory XD didn't expect to hl somebody w00t_ ^^''' | 16:16 |
| w00t_ | :-) | 16:16 |
| mikki-kun | i kinda grew accustomed to use that ^^ | 16:17 |
| mikki-kun | btw, you reflected a lil about how you came to maemo, right | 16:17 |
| mikki-kun | was nice reading that :) | 16:17 |
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| MohammadAG | X-Fade, you forgot the binaries, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel/ | 16:23 |
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| mints | hi all | 16:26 |
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| GAN900 | I wonder if we've driven all of the MeeGo people away from mwkn yet. | 16:34 |
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| kwtm | Yea! Successfully used mc to browse remote computer and retrieve file! Much handier than scp. Thanks to MohammadAG and D-Iivil_Work and lcuk for all the help. | 16:35 |
| kwtm | Am going to sleep now (4 hours late). | 16:36 |
| lcuk | :) kwtm good game! | 16:36 |
| MohammadAG | heh, night kwek | 16:36 |
| MohammadAG | sorry kwek, night kwtm | 16:36 |
| * MohammadAG stabs his tab key | 16:36 | |
| kwek | good night | 16:36 |
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| MohammadAG | lol | 16:46 |
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| E0x | what exactly do the "IDEAL" config in kernerl-power-user | 16:50 |
| E0x | ? | 16:50 |
| MohammadAG | 600MHz | 16:50 |
| E0x | what what is the default clock ? | 16:50 |
| E0x | ( stock kernel ) | 16:50 |
| kerio | what what | 16:51 |
| kerio | in the butt | 16:51 |
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| GAN900 | E0x, 600MHz. | 17:07 |
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| E0x | GAN900: so , "IDEAL" is just default | 17:09 |
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| kerio | huh? | 17:10 |
| kerio | no | 17:10 |
| ohwhyme | hmm i just formatted emmc and i get a not enough memory to restore a abckup :O | 17:10 |
| kerio | ideal overclocks it | 17:10 |
| FIQ | hi | 17:10 |
| FIQ | there's smth wrong w/my battery | 17:11 |
| E0x | kerio: ? | 17:11 |
| E0x | kerio: what do ideal ? | 17:11 |
| kerio | overclocks it | 17:11 |
| E0x | to ? | 17:11 |
| kerio | don't remember | 17:11 |
| FIQ | it states that it's low but i charge it | 17:11 |
| E0x | ok | 17:11 |
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| ohwhyme | argh | 17:12 |
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| toggles_w | FIQ: are you using the genuine charger? | 17:33 |
| FIQ | i don't know what genuine means in english (not my first language) | 17:33 |
| FIQ | but i use the one that came with the phone | 17:34 |
| FIQ | so i guess i use the "right" one | 17:34 |
| toggles_w | ok, then you should be good, some of the 3rd party ones don't produce enough current | 17:34 |
| E0x | original | 17:34 |
| FIQ | E0x, ty | 17:34 |
| FIQ | anyway | 17:34 |
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| FIQ | some days ago my battery didn't wanted to be used at all. I opened the back and it didn't sat in the place hard at all | 17:36 |
| FIQ | it almost fell of when i held the phone so the battery was upside-down | 17:36 |
| FIQ | out* | 17:36 |
| FIQ | not atm, but could it be related? | 17:36 |
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| pupnik_ | i noticed that my n810 refuses to *charge* from a car-charger (nokia or other brands), but it will draw power from one | 17:39 |
| E0x | FIQ: i think you can buy a replacement | 17:40 |
| E0x | but not sure | 17:40 |
| E0x | google for it | 17:40 |
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| E0x | or go directly to nokia website | 17:40 |
| FIQ | E0x, well, not sure if it's the battery or the place that the battery is supposed to be in | 17:40 |
| FIQ | (as it didn't sit well in it yesterday) | 17:40 |
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| E0x | FIQ: then maybe you want take you device to some nokia store | 17:41 |
| E0x | and get a check | 17:41 |
| FIQ | hm | 17:41 |
| FIQ | now this text appeared: | 17:41 |
| FIQ | "Don't charging" ("Laddar inte" @sv) | 17:41 |
| FIQ | e0x, guess so | 17:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | FIQ: unplug and replug the charger USB plug, please | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | check notifications, qoute them here | 17:51 |
| fatal | hey... have hardware rev 2001 (note: not 2101).... trying to flash the image, but apparently I need some super-secret recepie to do so... anyone got any hints on this? | 17:51 |
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| FIQ | <DocScrutinizer> FIQ: unplug and replug the charger USB plug, please | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | fatal: nobody knows he super-secret receipe - it's super-secret | 17:52 |
| FIQ | the usb charger you mean? | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | FIQ: sure | 17:52 |
| FIQ | because i've no access to computer here and until friday | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | FIQ: the wallcharger has a USB plug, no? please unplug it from N900, then replug it | 17:53 |
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| FIQ | ah, you mean that | 17:53 |
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| FIQ | it said "Take off the charger from the wall to save energy" - "Charging" | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | looks good | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | FIQ: please open xterm, and enter 'lshal|grep percent' | 17:54 |
| FIQ | battery.charge_level.percentage = 0 (0x0) (int) | 17:55 |
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| FIQ | that didn't looked good to me | 17:55 |
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| * lcuk turns over and tries to sleep | 17:56 | |
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| fatal | DocScrutinizer: supposedly this is the super-secret recepie: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=608704&postcount=26 | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | FIQ: lshal|grep battery | 17:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | FIQ: check for "battery.rechargeable.is_charging = true" | 17:57 |
| rcg | does anyone have an idea how to avoid that com.nokia.mce.signal.system_inactivity_ind is being send on dbus? | 17:57 |
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| rcg | programmatically i have to add ;) | 17:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | battery.voltage.current = 4188 | 17:58 |
| FIQ | battery.rechargeable.is_charging = true (bool) | 17:58 |
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| jacekowski | rcg: execve("killall","-9","mce"); | 17:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: WTF? | 18:00 |
| rcg | jacekowski: well this looks a little brutal to me | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | rcg: your question is a little confusing | 18:01 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: that was C solution to his problem | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | rcg: probably that isn't what you really want to do | 18:01 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: not the best one, but it would work | 18:01 |
| FIQ | docscruntinizer, should tha tpercentage meter keep itself at 0? | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: BS | 18:01 |
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| jacekowski | which part? | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | FIQ: it should *eventually* rise | 18:01 |
| FIQ | ok | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | FIQ: please check voltage as supposed some lines above | 18:02 |
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| rcg | DocScrutinizer: well, i know this sounds kinda strange ... reason is that drnoksnes stops any game on receiving that signal .. which of course makes perfect sense | 18:02 |
| FIQ | battery.voltage.current = 3428 (0xd64) (int) | 18:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: the "reboot on mce-kill" part | 18:02 |
| jacekowski | hmm, i forgot about that | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | FIQ: this value should rise more noticeably | 18:03 |
| jacekowski | execve("stop","mce"); | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | same | 18:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just takes 60s longer | 18:03 |
| kerio | stop mce | 18:03 |
| rcg | my problem is that e.g. when using zeecontrol, the xtest events used by zeecontrol are not taken as user input .. hence the system will "shutdown" after the selected time period | 18:03 |
| FIQ | oh, it has been there since my first grep (that was 7mins ago) on battery info | 18:04 |
| FIQ | but maybe i should just wait a bit more | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | rcg: so it's probably a *much* better idea to generate events, rather than to filter/block one event | 18:04 |
| rcg | i can programmatically keep the display on .. so the problem remains that drnoksnes pauses the game on receiving the inactivity signal and the events caused by zeecontrol seem no to influence the inactivity counter | 18:04 |
| rcg | DocScrutinizer: yeah, i am looking for some event that basically "resets" the inactivity timer | 18:05 |
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| pupnik_ | http://betalabs.nokia.com/apps/nokia-magnifier not a bad app idea for N900 | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | rcg: try e.g. http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS#dbus-send-unlock | 18:06 |
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| tybollt | oh blimey | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | rcg: I'm not sure it resets the inactivity timer you got the problem with. But basically the bug is somewhere in your existing code, which fails to generate the correct events, rather than to reset a timer the brute force way | 18:07 |
| tybollt | motherfuck | 18:07 |
| tybollt | my phone just spontaneously rebooted | 18:07 |
| tybollt | battery is full | 18:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tybollt: I've seen that happening once | 18:08 |
| FIQ | that has happened to me twice | 18:08 |
| tybollt | DocScrutinizer: fair enough - so I shouldn't assume I'm pwned then ;) | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | read out /proc/bootreason | 18:08 |
| FIQ | both times when i played with m64p | 18:08 |
| tybollt | also - please pardon my french.,.. bit upset over here... ;) | 18:09 |
| rcg | DocScrutinizer: a sweet .. dbus-send-unlock seems to do the trick | 18:09 |
| rcg | thanks for the tip :) | 18:09 |
| FIQ | must say that the os/phone is pretty stable with only two randomreboots | 18:09 |
| FIQ | since feb | 18:09 |
| tybollt | DocScrutinizer: sw_rst - so "software reset", what'd that mean? panic()? | 18:10 |
| nidO | the only "random reboot" i've has was a few weeks ago when the phone decided to spontaneously drain battery charge at like 20x it's normal idle rate overnight and flatten in like 3 hours then shut down :< | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably means some software intentionally rebooted the device | 18:10 |
| tybollt | hmm | 18:11 |
| jacekowski | nidO: i had same thing today | 18:11 |
| nidO | I had installed arapp the same day which I initially pegged as the possible cause, but I havent had it happen since despite reinstalling the software | 18:11 |
| tybollt | coulda been omweather I suppose - seeing as I never comply w/ its "you have to prommise to reboot" - no SRSLY we mean it, reboot! "Hey, you didn't reboot yet" | 18:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | might have been dsme on detecting a 'hanging' process. The hanging process might have been caused by swapping, or high cpu load, or whatever | 18:12 |
| nidO | I only have weatherbug installed atm, got rid of omweather a while ago to conserve power a bit | 18:12 |
| tybollt | weatherbug? | 18:12 |
| nidO | really nice weather app in ovi | 18:12 |
| tybollt | nidO: so it's omweather that is sucking the juice off of my device then? I've serious battery problems... | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | nonsense | 18:13 |
| nidO | not specifically, but getting rid of it was basically just one less running widget on my desktop | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean, just check it, with powertop | 18:13 |
| ShadowJK | FIQ: is this N900? | 18:13 |
| FIQ | yes | 18:13 |
| nidO | I dont really need weather forecasts so urgently as to need a widget available all the time so just ditched omweather completely and replaced with weatherbug | 18:13 |
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| nidO | and got a slight battery life improvement as a result | 18:14 |
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| tybollt | nidO: 's it look fancier than om? | 18:14 |
| nidO | yeah, has streaming video weather forecasts and info built right into it too | 18:14 |
| tybollt | hmmm | 18:14 |
| ShadowJK | fiq: out of interest, what does 'hal-device bme|grep reporting.design' (without the '' quotes) say? | 18:15 |
| tybollt | Iono - I don't particularely care to be perfectly honest but missus love peeking at my mobile to get the forecast ;) | 18:15 |
| nidO | i usually just peek at my missus', her hd2 displays weather better than any widget the n900 will ever get :p | 18:15 |
| tybollt | (now if I could only remember to stash those sms convo's from the mistress away ;) | 18:15 |
| tybollt | nidO: I gave missus an android thing last week to try and remedy this... what weather apps is there of rit? | 18:16 |
| tybollt | for it? | 18:16 |
| nidO | well the hd2 is 1) a winmo phone and 2) has htc's sense ui which includes a weather display splashed across the whole of the home screen | 18:17 |
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| ShadowJK | tybollt: /var/lib/dsme for stats on restarts and resets, iirc | 18:17 |
| nidO | for a non-htc android, id imagine there's gotta be loads of decent weather software though | 18:17 |
| tybollt | sjk: ty | 18:17 |
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| tybollt | nidO: I know shit about android so would appreciate tips - however I know crashie will prob ably lay down the law on me soon if I continue this OT ranting ;) | 18:18 |
| ShadowJK | stats/lifeguard_resets probably | 18:18 |
| jacekowski | camera-ui - 45 | 18:19 |
| jacekowski | systemui 10 | 18:19 |
| FIQ | <ShadowJK> fiq: out of interest, what does 'hal-device bme|grep reporting.design' (without the '' quotes) say? | 18:19 |
| ShadowJK | is that _restarts or _resets? | 18:19 |
| * FIQ checks | 18:19 | |
| nidO | tybollt: weatherbug has an android app as well, no idea if it includes any kind of homescreen widget though | 18:20 |
| tybollt | sjk: low numbers on average and then ... "camera-ui: 21" W-T-F? :) | 18:20 |
| FIQ | battery.reporting.design = 1297 (0x511) (int) | 18:20 |
| ShadowJK | Hm, that looks fine | 18:20 |
| tybollt | ? | 18:20 |
| ShadowJK | (at fiq) | 18:20 |
| tybollt | so it's normal for the cammy to regularely kill phone? Awwww... | 18:21 |
| tybollt | oh | 18:21 |
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| range | 4/act | 18:23 |
| range | Hrm. | 18:23 |
| range | Sorry. | 18:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tybollt: I guess that's the number of process restarts, but dsme doesn't restart whole system on a process single restart. Usually processes are configured in a way they are restarted multiple times until finally dsme gives up and restarts whole phone | 18:24 |
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| tybollt | fair enough | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | tybollt: see dsmetool --help and -t | 18:26 |
| kerio | can i access the microsd when connecting the n900 to a computer with the usb cable? | 18:26 |
| kerio | (in storage mode, i mean) | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | tybollt: -c --max-count=N Restart process only maximum N times in defined period of time (the default is 10 times in 60 s) | 18:26 |
| tybollt | doc: So we could still conclude my phone had a serious booboo then | 18:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, dunno if it's in the specs of cam-ui to occasionally block/quit and need a single restart | 18:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tybollt: see, I heard of a SE phone some time ago, that regularly schedules a system boot every 24h :-P | 18:29 |
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| WormFood | what does "cold flash" do? I can't figure out what exactly it does. ("cold flash" is not descriptive if you have no idea what it is supposed to do) | 18:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | WormFood: unclear. Needed when NOLO bootloader is broken. Probably some JTAG fixture involved | 18:31 |
| WormFood | I'm not sure what I need to do, now that I've replaced my backup battery | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | boot and feel happy? | 18:32 |
| WormFood | when I power it off, it just reboots, and when I boot with the external memory card, it says it is corrupt...but if I pop it out, and back in, it works fine | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | give the backup battery a good while to charge | 18:32 |
| WormFood | it still boots as soon as I insert the (main) battery | 18:32 |
| WormFood | yeah, I just got home, and I'm charging it now. | 18:32 |
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| WormFood | hopefully everything will be ok. | 18:32 |
| floydiann | hey all =) | 18:33 |
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| GAN900 | fatal, you need a LEGACY image. | 18:34 |
| GAN900 | fatal, or change your hw-revision using the flasher | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | WormFood: (cold flash) some of the NIT oldtimers should know better - e.g. qwerty12 | 18:34 |
| GAN900 | But that could be bad | 18:34 |
| GAN900 | E0x / kerio, anything higher than 600 is extremely likely to severely reduce the life expectancy of your device. As 600MHz already has certain risks there, it's considered ideal. :) | 18:35 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, why are we cold flashing? | 18:36 |
| WormFood | I was asking about it | 18:36 |
| WormFood | I replaced the backup battery in my N800, and not sure what I need to do to make everything work right again. | 18:36 |
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| GAN900 | Well, cold flashing is for when NOLO is trashed and can't do it. | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | as in "expected lifetime with 500MHz max = >20 years. With 600MHz = 5 yeras. with 700MHz = 1 year" something along that idea | 18:37 |
| GAN900 | If it's booting, NOLO isn't trashed. | 18:37 |
| tybollt | DocScrutinizer: hoopla :S | 18:38 |
| WormFood | ok...I suspected I didn't need to cold flash, but not sure, as I've never had the backup battery run dead before | 18:38 |
| * tybollt is bit suprised at how utterly unusable Ovi store is :-o | 18:38 | |
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| FIQ | i've always got the insight that Ovi suck | 18:39 |
| FIQ | never used it more than for downloading bounce | 18:39 |
| FIQ | and Fx | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | WormFood: it's not uncommon for the devices to be shipped from fab with flat bupbat | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | WormFood: so recovery from flat bupbat should be painless | 18:40 |
| WormFood | well, I'm still getting the same symptoms as before....charging now...I'm inpatient, I want it to work right NOW! :P | 18:41 |
| tybollt | bupbat | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | backup battery | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, odds are you still got another bug as well | 18:42 |
| WormFood | I couldn't imagine what else could be wrong with it. | 18:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Nokia ruined my powerswitch when they fixed another hw bug | 18:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm not sure whether it's the switch spring, or a solder joint | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | the way Nokia built the switches and buttons (the industry standard way) there's nothing keeping excessipe pressure force away from the flimpsy SMT switch | 18:45 |
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| Ikarus | DocScrutinizer: you'd wish they'd use the mechanical equivilent of clamping diodes :) | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | some lever for the plastic button to stop it after some 0.5mm, and keep actuall switch out of range of that and operate it with a spring | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | could all be done wih a minimally improved mold for the plastic parts | 18:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | WormFood: does your powerswitch still have a clear click when pressed | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | do you feel the pressue point when it switches over? | 18:53 |
| WormFood | no, it does nothing on the software...of course, I feel it click when I press it | 18:54 |
| WormFood | I used to get the menu that asks what I want to do, such as power off, or lock it, but now it just reboots | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's good. It's probably not the switch spring then | 18:54 |
| fatal | GAN900: thanks, changed hw rev... worked fine. | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | it reboots as oon as you press power button? | 18:55 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: that would be a fail setup then and not the switch | 18:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I seem to remember settings for that in /etc/mce/mce.cfg | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | might be same in diablo | 18:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's also some magic for power-on behaviour in flasher R&D-flags or sth. like 'force-poweron=yes" means device boots up when you insert battery | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | (please look up the correct wording by yourself, I guess I'm close at best) | 18:58 |
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| MiXu- | It's called "auto power" iirc | 19:01 |
| MiXu- | at least in some context | 19:01 |
| canc | Hi, is this the right place if I want to ask about N900 hardware issues ? | 19:02 |
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| MiXu- | This or talk.maemo.org | 19:02 |
| canc | ok | 19:02 |
| MiXu- | What's the issue? | 19:02 |
| canc | so, here my trouble : the battery seems to be down, and I can't power the n900 anymore | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's the exact symptoms? | 19:03 |
| canc | ok, from the start | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, please | 19:03 |
| MiXu- | canc: Put it in a charger and don't touch it for 30 minutes. Then try to start. | 19:03 |
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| canc | this morning it was down | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | MiXu-: wait! let us hear the full story | 19:03 |
| canc | after plugin it, the screen did show the logo, then nothing | 19:04 |
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| canc | I've put it on charge until the ornage light did blink | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | with backlight or gey on white? | 19:04 |
| canc | grey | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok blinking yellow is a good sign | 19:04 |
| canc | I've managed to have it running a few minutes | 19:05 |
| canc | and then it shut down again | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | your charger is too weak, and/or you have some power hog running on your system | 19:05 |
| canc | know the light stay fixed orange and I can't have it on again | 19:05 |
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| konttori | canc: you could also try charging the battery with e.g. n810 (if you have one) | 19:06 |
| canc | I've installed the application to monitor the battery life | 19:06 |
| canc | no, I don't have one | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | let it stay solid orange for 30min. then unplug and replug the wallcharger USB plug | 19:06 |
| canc | so, you agree, it's the battery that's flat ? | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 19:06 |
| MiXu- | Not necessarily anything wrong with it. Just let it charge for good 30 minutes and see what happens. Don't try to start it during that time. | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | steady orange is emergency recovery charge mode. it will charge your cell for 30 min, then stop | 19:07 |
| canc | ok | 19:07 |
| canc | do I have a way of knowing if the battery is charged ? | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | after 30 min, unplug the charger and replug, to start charging again. eventually it will enter normal blinking charge mode | 19:08 |
| canc | ok | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | let it charge then until green | 19:08 |
| canc | so, what I've read on the forum is true, letting the battery fully discharge is "bad" ? | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | use wall charger by all means! never try to charge in emergency mode via USB host PC | 19:09 |
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| canc | ok, it is on wall charger | 19:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, you should avoid to discharge it completely | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually this won't happen, as system shuts down before cell is flat | 19:09 |
| canc | ok, note for the future me | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | if however you try to reboot several times, you might tease your luck | 19:10 |
| kerio | heh, mappero wants to download 1479542782 maps | 19:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so general advice: if system shuts down, do NOT try to reboot it. Hook it to wallcharger instead and wait until it's considerably charged | 19:11 |
| canc | rebooting to much is bad ? | 19:11 |
| canc | ok | 19:11 |
| MiXu- | No problem in rebooting, but if the battery gets too empty, it's a pain to get back up, as you now see. :) | 19:11 |
| chem|st | canc: your device may shutdown but don't try to start it several times without recharging the bat first, keeps you out of trouble as it will never run out dead then (keep in mind that the battery will die if you keep it uncharged for a descent period) | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | canc: rebooting can not check for flat battery in the first millisecond. It will inevitably drain your cell further until it decides the cell is too weak already, and shuts down again | 19:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so yes, several reboots are bad, if your battery is flat | 19:13 |
| kerio | hey, openstreet is good | 19:13 |
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| canc | ok, so fixed orange light mean : emergency power mode | 19:14 |
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| kerio | does anyone use mappero here? | 19:14 |
| chem|st | kerio: canc yes | 19:14 |
| kerio | how do i download maps? | 19:14 |
| canc | thanks a lot :) | 19:14 |
| chem|st | kerio: you mean for offline? there wont be routing offline | 19:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | canc: exactly it means the battery is too weak to boot the system, and the battery management chip tries to recover some capacity to the point where the system can reboot and start decent charging | 19:15 |
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| canc | so, is there a way to monitor the battery state ? | 19:16 |
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| canc | I mean, the N900 was plugged all night long | 19:16 |
| crashanddie | battery-eye? | 19:16 |
| kerio | so it's useless as a standalone GPS, if you have to go through points with no data | 19:17 |
| chem|st | canc: in this state no, for normal usage batteryEye | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | canc: due to safety considerations this emergency recover charge mode will persist only 32 minutes. If cell isn't sufficiently recovered after that, you need to retsart the process | 19:17 |
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| chem|st | kerio: you may download all tiles from a dialog in mappero but doing it for a large are will do no good! | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | canc: N900 has annoying habit to not always detect charger. So you can run down battery even while hooked up to charger | 19:17 |
| chem|st | kerio: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56922 | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | canc: you always should check if it is actually signalling it's charging | 19:18 |
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| canc | DocScrutinizer: so, if after somes tries, the battery is overheating and still not loaded, it could mean that it is broken | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 19:18 |
| canc | DocScrutinizer: ok, I had this sensation about the charger not charging :) | 19:18 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: never had that but PC-USB with 500mA was not enough at some point ;) | 19:18 |
| ShadowJK | If it gets hot in emergency charge mode, something is very wrong | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, actually | 19:19 |
| canc | this afternoon, it was really hot | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably the cell is broken. Might happen if you drop it hard | 19:19 |
| kerio | chem|st: how do other navigation programs do that then? | 19:19 |
| canc | ... Does a little rain when on motorcycle count as "dropping hard" ? ... | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | canc: try the emergency recover charge like described above. Keep an eye on it. If it gets hot, remove battery and visit your Nokia care center | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: how's the open charging coming? | 19:21 |
| * Stskeeps just returned home | 19:21 | |
| SpeedEvil | Open charging is trivial. | 19:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Integrating it with the rest of the stack is less so. | 19:22 |
| canc | DocScrutinizer: thanks, I'll do as you say | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | still sitting over some scripts and pondering details. My impression was meego isn't that much interested in a quick & dirty solution | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | better to have a proper solution you can QA | 19:22 |
| * ShadowJK is charging without bme right now | 19:22 | |
| chem|st | kerio: static maps data with one lvl of detail, rendered for different levels | 19:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm doing that frequently, as do ShadowJK and SpeedEvil - it's a silly oneliner | 19:23 |
| ShadowJK | In maemo5 we don't know how to talk to dsme, pulseaudio, and everything else that bme extends its tentacles | 19:23 |
| chem|st | kerio: and europe is about +2GB for any device | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: did you figure out temperature checks? | 19:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: In some ways that isn't interesting. | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are two temp sensors on mainboard, one on GAYA and one on GAZOO | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | called battemp both | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: Derate charge from 20-50C linearly, and turn off if >70C or so | 19:24 |
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| ShadowJK | also bq27200 has one. I'm using that for temperature throttling myself | 19:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the bq27200 isn't thermally coupled to the battery as closely. Dunno about the other two though :-P | 19:25 |
| ShadowJK | My script manages to stay at 2-3C of target even with a very braindead simple method | 19:25 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah but bq27200 seems to be in a very thermally active area ;p | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure :-P | 19:26 |
| kerio | how about we just pester nokia with the source for the bme? | 19:26 |
| kerio | *for | 19:26 |
| kerio | *of | 19:26 |
| slonopotamus | -.- | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | well, package up a C program doing charging, make it testable somehow - write testcases, .. write a devicekit-power (i think) plugin for battery level reading | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | a lot of nice power hog chip next to it | 19:26 |
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| Stskeeps | it's always easier to relate to something that people can test and actually try out | 19:26 |
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| ShadowJK | I've seen bme happily charge at max power when bq27200 has read 60C | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: for sure I won't write a C program for that shit | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | integrating it into maemo is going to be hell | 19:27 |
| ShadowJK | So I set my own throttle at 50 | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i'm thinking oom situations where a script might not be good (multiple processes..) | 19:27 |
| slonopotamus | what the heck are you doing, guys? | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: just replace bme | 19:27 |
| slonopotamus | 'just' | 19:28 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 19:28 |
| ShadowJK | If I had spare time I could do a C version :) | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | got a wiki on instructions? | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: (jr)bme is low inportance really. Nothing bad will happen when it gets killed or jsut reniced to oblivion | 19:28 |
| ShadowJK | I mostly write it in bash script whnever I have a few minutes spare time :) | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, exactly | 19:29 |
| * ShadowJK hasn't found optified gcc and libc-dev yet ;@ | 19:29 | |
| ShadowJK | ;D | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | much better for this purpose | 19:29 |
| lcuk | there isnt one ShadowJK | 19:29 |
| lcuk | its sdk - tho i wonder how many votes a bug would need | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean jrbme is doing next to nothing, on a time sheduled basis of like every 5 seconds | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | a script is perfect for this | 19:30 |
| ShadowJK | Oh yeah, that's the nice thing about N900's battery hardware, if software dies the hw reverts to failsafe defaults | 19:30 |
| kerio | why do we need a software then | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I couldn't care less about hlad-addon-bme | 19:30 |
| kerio | :/ | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: exactly | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | anything HAL is useless anyway | 19:31 |
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| ShadowJK | kerio: because the failsafe only charges battery to 40% or so | 19:31 |
| ShadowJK | slowly | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | as it's also foolproof | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | or let's call it err... failsafe :-D | 19:32 |
| Arkenoi | now i know what is that dirt collecting screen border made for | 19:32 |
| ShadowJK | and the failsafe shutdown can potentially corrupt filesystems | 19:32 |
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| kerio | ShadowJK: journaling | 19:32 |
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| * Stskeeps doesn't understand if you do have a working charging, why not package it up and release.. | 19:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, shouldn't. This should be a function of TWL4030 lovolt threshold that does a shutdown -h now | 19:33 |
| ShadowJK | kerio: journaling is fine on harddrives, but flash is so unpredictable in what random chunks of data you'll lose all over | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: because we need to care about 2*3*4*5 permutations for niche cases, like PC host which refuses to enum, etc | 19:33 |
| Arkenoi | my n900 slipped from my pocket while i was running for a train, fell screen down and slided the stone floor several meters | 19:34 |
| Arkenoi | not a single scratch ;-) | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: sounds like it needs to be more than a shellscript then | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 19:34 |
| kerio | Stskeeps: it just needs *more* shell scripts | 19:34 |
| kerio | :P | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | why would a shellscript be incapable to handle several cases? | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | traditionally it needs a boatload of external dependancies and is not foolproof | 19:35 |
| kerio | "For instance, how do i make my n900 charge his battery without the bme? The answer... use a shell script." | 19:35 |
| ShadowJK | stskeeps: what's missinfrom mine: Charger insertion/removal detection, charger restart handling after fault, charger restart decision and handling after full charge.. and usb as doc mentioned | 19:35 |
| kerio | "And if that don't work... use more shell script." | 19:35 |
| * slonopotamus wonders why not brainfuck or whitespace | 19:35 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: for now we are dealng with exactly one case: charging from wallcharger, on a system that we know almost all about its current state | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | mmkay | 19:36 |
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| ShadowJK | Particulary for the charger insertion/removal I think I'll move to C | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: fair enough | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | for kevents etc | 19:36 |
| ShadowJK | oh also todo: low battery alarm/ shutdown | 19:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but for now I don't see the need | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably | 19:37 |
| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: shutdowns suck, yep | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | all this can be checked for POC in a script. Then we may move to Python, C, whatever | 19:37 |
| kerio | do you think a bug in the "Nokia Nseries" theme's wallpapers will be accepted? | 19:38 |
| ShadowJK | We also need to discuss full-charge behaviour. Do we restart charger at 90-95% or do we float down to something less than 4.2? | 19:38 |
| lcuk | so this bme code - it has to be lunar spec i gather - same sort of review as the software used to fly space ships? | 19:38 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: macbooks only start the charge when at 95% or less | 19:38 |
| chem|st | slonopotamus: had my device +6hours at 0% charge lvl wifi on... | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, that's another question. Probably only Nokia or the user can decide | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: as for now bme is doing both, plus a third even more weird thing, and at least one of the 3 is a bug in bme | 19:39 |
| chem|st | ShadowJK: that would mean my device would never stop charging... 92%-96% is state after full charge | 19:39 |
| lcuk | battery manufacturers at the far end of the chain would need to inform about the preferred condition of their batteries wouldnt they | 19:39 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, ShadowJK can you identify which battery it is? | 19:39 |
| ShadowJK | chem: that's just a side-effect of how it's measured | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: err what? We can check if the cell has correct BSI value (a resistor) | 19:40 |
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| ShadowJK | chem: I'd use the bq27200 measurements that reset to 100% on full charge detection | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | My logic on charging goes like this. | 19:41 |
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| chem|st | ShadowJK: side effect means that it doesnt reach the mA nor voltage ever again... | 19:41 |
| SpeedEvil | It is 'safe' to charge the battery to 4.2V, then leave it on a shelf for a few months. | 19:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | It must similarly be safe to charge the battery to 4.2V, then float the battery at 0 average current for a few months | 19:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Even though there are instantaneous spikes up or down. | 19:42 |
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| ShadowJK | chemist: When bme's meter says 92-96%, bq27200 says 100% and that's what I'd use | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you'll watch the battery voltage drop to considerably lower level, without any discharge, after stopping charging at 4.2 | 19:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | I know. | 19:42 |
| kerio | i don't get what's wrong with the current bme, btw | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: and due to the spikes you can't tell for sure when your avrg zero current in/out is reached | 19:43 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 19:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, you can't read the charge counter at 'full' | 19:43 |
| SpeedEvil | AIUI | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, not sure | 19:44 |
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| ShadowJK | lcuk: it's a user convenience vs battery longevity issue. We can instruct the charger to maintain full charge after reaching full, but this can potentially reduce the longevity of the battery, or, we can monitor battery after fullcharge, and instruct charger to begin chargong at 90-95% or something. | 19:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I think I've seen it increasing on GTA02 battery, for some 100mAh after it switched to 100% | 19:44 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, how does bme do it currently | 19:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - you'd really want - once it measures 'full' - to keep the charge at this level. | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: we won't 'instruct' - bq24150 does that in hardware | 19:45 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk: as doc said, a combination of both, and a third wtf-is-this-shit bug mode | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: tbh I don't | 19:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I meah - rather - you want once it measures full - to make it so there is no net current in or out of the battery | 19:46 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: remove the battery! | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 19:46 |
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| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil: i dont think we can accomplish that the way stuff is wired | 19:47 |
| ShadowJK | So I'd favor microcycling over floating | 19:47 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, SpeedEvil, Stskeeps - we know bme is closed source. has anyone asked for a flowchart/block diagram of its intended operation flow? not quite the same thing and more like a spec for people to work from and discuss | 19:47 |
| kerio | what's the rationale behind not giving us the source code? i mean, wtf | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: I did | 19:48 |
| lcuk | kerio, fires, explosions etc - justified in bmes case | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | People over on #thinkpad have reported great results with keeping the battery charged only to 90% | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: IP of outsource contractors aiui | 19:49 |
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| kerio | lcuk: justified because... | 19:49 |
| kerio | ? | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | As in battery longevity several times better. | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: Sort-of | 19:49 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil: Yep | 19:49 |
| kerio | *not* giving us the source could lead to that | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: The battery charger can be configured to charge the battery to 4.3V | 19:50 |
| ShadowJK | 4.4 | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: thjat's an urban legend and FUD | 19:50 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, did you get any answer back? | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: Rather than the normal safe limit of 4.2 | 19:50 |
| ShadowJK | iirc | 19:50 |
| lcuk | ok DocScrutinizer51 it may be FUD | 19:50 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: who cares | 19:50 |
| kerio | if the user wants to do it... good for him | 19:50 |
| lcuk | but im happy to let it remain | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: It's a percieved problem apparantly. | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: And it's not the user | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: It's for example - someone installs an app in extras, that does it, for example, and a million phones catch fire. | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: 'we're looking into it' 'we come back to you evetually' 'there are legal issues' | 19:51 |
| SpeedEvil | (though they won't actually catch fire, very likely) | 19:51 |
| ShadowJK | Providing a battery longeviy option with jrbme would be nice :) | 19:51 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, if nokia had some engineering class apprentices in who needed to learn could produce such a document from the existing code and use it as part of their tuition ;) | 19:51 |
| lcuk | and nokia and everyone gets a proper outlined spec about just what bme is and is not doing | 19:52 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk: on one hand the more we discover about bme the more disgusted I get and the less I want to know :) | 19:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: even the requirement specs are considered to have legal issues | 19:52 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, thats fine, but discussing it now could make it happen even internally | 19:53 |
| lcuk | it would be better if even under nda such documents could be available - it might remove the fud assoc with the component | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | HAs it instead been asked how to replace BME? | 19:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: All components - hardware - in this area have docs | 19:54 |
| SpeedEvil | (well - apart from the battery) | 19:54 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil: btw on N8x0 after full charge and device being idle/standby, bme lets the battery go down the 90% point and keeps it at 87-90% :) | 19:54 |
| ShadowJK | I haven't seen maemo5 bme do this | 19:54 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: that's probably sane, yeah | 19:54 |
| ShadowJK | That longevity strategy is more than negated by the Polymer battery and pulse charging, though | 19:55 |
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| * ShadowJK ponders asking mugen for something datasheet-like.. | 19:57 | |
| pupnik_ | e71 is great for battery life | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | we should ask Nokia for a *decent* engineering Datasheet for BL-5J - incl recommended keep charged strategy and safety limits for e.g. temperature | 19:59 |
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| lcuk | +1 | 19:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Imeam we don't even *want* to know what bme does. We are quite able to figure what it *should* do if we get battery datasheet | 20:01 |
| pupnik_ | for some value of $we :) | 20:01 |
| FIQ | the Qt SDK is only capable of compiling things using Qt i guess? | 20:05 |
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| FIQ | and not things that use for example fpc | 20:05 |
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| alterego | I'm erm, liking Qt custom widgets :) | 20:22 |
| alterego | My app is starting to look s00per smooth :) | 20:23 |
| SpComb | QSS is also pretty magic | 20:24 |
| SpComb | take away the margins, put in some gradient backgrounds, tweak the borders a little, and your normal widgets look totally different | 20:25 |
| kerio | i don't get why you guys are so against the official bme | 20:26 |
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| SpComb | that's a different question | 20:26 |
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| kerio | it does what it's supposed to do, and it's under warranty | 20:27 |
| luke-jr | kerio: it's proprietary | 20:28 |
| luke-jr | Windows Mobile does what it's supposed to do, too | 20:29 |
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| luke-jr | why don't you just get a WinMo device? | 20:29 |
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| kerio | because windows mobile sucks balls | 20:30 |
| kynky | what is winmo supposed todo ? | 20:30 |
| luke-jr | kerio: so does BME | 20:30 |
| pupnik_ | i haven't seen the case that BME is anything less than good | 20:31 |
| luke-jr | pupnik_: the onus is on you to prove that | 20:31 |
| luke-jr | :) | 20:31 |
| luke-jr | proprietary software is by default presumed malicious | 20:31 |
| ShadowJK | kerio: oh we want opensource replacement for meego and luke's gentoo ;p | 20:31 |
| pupnik_ | how do you propose to write and test something that doesn't damage batteries? | 20:32 |
| kerio | luke-jr: of course | 20:33 |
| kerio | so run it in a chroot jail! | 20:33 |
| luke-jr | ... | 20:33 |
| luke-jr | kerio: as if chroot makes things safe | 20:33 |
| kerio | run it in a VM | 20:33 |
| luke-jr | even if we jail BME enough to only do its job, it can still explode the battery ;) | 20:34 |
| kerio | ooh | 20:34 |
| kerio | well, that's under warranty | 20:34 |
| ShadowJK | pupnik: The conditons are: Battery voltage must stay above 2.5 and below 4.2. We can measure this from the fuel gauge chip | 20:34 |
| luke-jr | ... if it was in a VM, it could only charge an emulated battery :p | 20:34 |
| luke-jr | kerio: you're assuming best-case scenario still | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: could you ask Nokia for a comprehensive technical/engineering datasheet for N900 battery? Including recommended charging strategy (usually CC/CV with certain current/voltage limits and a allowed temp range is specified for that), ABS MAX ratings, expected lifetime, suggested keep-charged strategy, impedance... etc etc | 20:34 |
| luke-jr | kerio: think I, Robot and Nokia taking over the world | 20:34 |
| luke-jr | :D | 20:34 |
| kerio | luke-jr: well, we can just remove the battery in that case | 20:34 |
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| luke-jr | kerio: N900 won't run without it | 20:35 |
| kerio | huh... that's the point | 20:35 |
| luke-jr | ... | 20:35 |
| Mece | evenin | 20:35 |
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| kerio | we must stop the n900 insurrection | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: stop telling BS. We CAN *NOT* explode the battery! PERIOD! | 20:35 |
| luke-jr | no, the point is to freely use a device we own | 20:35 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr: actually DocScrutinizer ran his N900 without battery, on charger power for 30ish minutes | 20:35 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: not even on N810? | 20:36 |
| kerio | yeah, not having *full* specs for a supposedly "open" device kinda sucks | 20:36 |
| kerio | but meh | 20:36 |
| kerio | nokia is doing what it can, in this patent-ridden world | 20:36 |
| luke-jr | Nokia is doing what they feel they "have to" to appeal to us | 20:36 |
| luke-jr | compromising won't get us anywhere ;) | 20:36 |
| pupnik_ | ridden is correct. being rode by lawyers. we, the beasts. | 20:37 |
| luke-jr | kerio: nothing stops Nokia from using other parts | 20:37 |
| ShadowJK | On N8x0 you can, as far as I understand the undocumented hw, dump all current from dc adapter into battery indefinitely. This would make it pregnant atleast, and if the failsafe inside the battery fails, there's a risk it would vent with flame | 20:37 |
| pupnik_ | or to put a sharper point to it, by legislators | 20:37 |
| luke-jr | kerio: think of this point: Nokia's tablets are the *only* devices that require a blob charger | 20:37 |
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| luke-jr | every other device, even ones that the company only supports WinMo, can charge without a blob | 20:38 |
| ShadowJK | N900's charger chip can not be programmed to dump infinite amounts of power into the battery, so you'd need a hammer to make it explode | 20:38 |
| Mece | wtf is a blob? | 20:38 |
| luke-jr | Mece: proprietary software | 20:38 |
| kerio | well, there *is* the failsafe charging circuit | 20:39 |
| luke-jr | 'blob' is to 'proprietary software', what 'trojan' is to 'remote control software' | 20:39 |
| kerio | heh | 20:39 |
| Mece | which ones don't have proprietary charging bits then? | 20:39 |
| ShadowJK | n8x0 requires blob charging, N900 doesn't ;D | 20:40 |
| luke-jr | Mece: NITs are the only ones that have blobs | 20:40 |
| luke-jr | I have never seen such blobs in *any* other device | 20:40 |
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| Stskeeps | heh. check archos | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: as in other devices the OS is one hige blob by definition :-P | 20:40 |
| ShadowJK | Even if the hw was documented, I'm not sure I'd want to write charger for it.. | 20:40 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: what? we can't make the battery explode? | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | huge* | 20:41 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: I know the former Archos lead developer... can't say I'd be surprised :/ | 20:41 |
| kerio | and this is supposed to be an "open" phone? | 20:41 |
| kerio | sheesh | 20:41 |
| mikki-kun | luke-jr: what is a "blob charger"? | 20:41 |
| mikki-kun | arghs, sorry | 20:41 |
| luke-jr | kerio: it's not, it's supposed to be a "Linux" phone AFAIK | 20:41 |
| mikki-kun | overlooked that short answer kinda >.< | 20:41 |
| kerio | it definetely runs on linux | 20:41 |
| luke-jr | kerio: I question that | 20:41 |
| kerio | luke-jr: uname | 20:42 |
| luke-jr | at least for N8x0, Linux proper never has booted on them | 20:42 |
| luke-jr | Nokia is getting better in that area though | 20:42 |
| luke-jr | so not worth fighting over | 20:42 |
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| luke-jr | kerio: it's a kernel derived from Linux | 20:42 |
| Mece | luke-jr, so... you're saying that if I buy myself a, lets say HTC HD2, the stuff handling the charging is open source? | 20:42 |
| mikki-kun | luke-jr: par defintion it is the linux-kernel from what i see | 20:43 |
| luke-jr | Mece: if it has a working Linux OS at all | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: you've noticed my question to you? | 20:43 |
| ShadowJK | kerio: Well we don't have specs on the battery (and people shove random ebay batteries into their devices anyway), but every similar battery's datasheet I've read have been safety tested to not explode, vent or deform at the maximum amount of evil we could do by abusing the charger chip | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: noting | 20:43 |
| luke-jr | mikki-kun: per definition, the Linux kernel is from kernel.org :) | 20:43 |
| mikki-kun | luke-jr: actually it is from linus torvalds =p | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: nothing will happen in july at least, vacations etc | 20:43 |
| jacekowski | that dsme watchdog thingy | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 20:43 |
| jacekowski | does it work like a proper watchdog | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | now it does | 20:44 |
| jacekowski | or does it only check if app is running? | 20:44 |
| luke-jr | mikki-kun: my point is that Linus Torvalds has never released a kernel capable of running N8x0 or N900 to date | 20:44 |
| kerio | jacekowski: you mean, barking at enemies? | 20:44 |
| ShadowJK | kerio: however, we could probably make a battery useless in a few months | 20:44 |
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| kerio | ShadowJK: still not enough :| | 20:44 |
| jacekowski | i mean kill -SIGSTOP `pidof bme-RX-51` | 20:44 |
| mikki-kun | hm... sure he is responsible for the kernel which was used... he wrote the core of it... and i think that core is still in it | 20:44 |
| kerio | i want the phone to *explode* in a nuclear mushroom | 20:44 |
| jacekowski | mm | 20:44 |
| jacekowski | not bme | 20:44 |
| luke-jr | mikki-kun: fork of Linux != Linux | 20:44 |
| kerio | so i can use it as a frag grenade | 20:45 |
| mikki-kun | kerio: won't frag much though... | 20:45 |
| luke-jr | mikki-kun: N8x0 owners are seeing the practical differences now | 20:45 |
| Mece | luke-jr, ok.. so if only the NITs have proprietary charging software, what device doesn't have? | 20:45 |
| luke-jr | Mece: I know my Zaurus SL-C760 doesn't | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: don't get your question - if it even was a question | 20:45 |
| ShadowJK | kerio: even with N8x0 it'd take hours to reach criticality, and it'd be highly unpredictable ;D | 20:45 |
| mikki-kun | luke-jr: can i read that somewhere? | 20:45 |
| luke-jr | Mece: it had a ton of blobs originally, but charging wasn't one of them | 20:45 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: how clever is that watchdog in dsme | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: 473 | 20:46 |
| luke-jr | mikki-kun: it is manifest in the impracticality to use any current OS on N8x0 devices | 20:46 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: apt-get install linux-frag-grenade | 20:46 |
| jacekowski | that's different | 20:46 |
| jacekowski | it's ussualy 42 | 20:46 |
| luke-jr | mikki-kun: here's a summary of the porting Linux to N8x0: http://www.elinux.org/N800#Status | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: saw my 2.6.35rc3 patches before i went on vacatiojn? | 20:46 |
| mikki-kun | luke-jr: will read that one | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: that's jr cleverness scale | 20:46 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: not eyt | 20:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: dsme rates at 473 there | 20:47 |
| RST38h | moo all | 20:47 |
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| lcuk | yo RST38h \o | 20:47 |
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| Stskeeps | luke-jr: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=4382&postcount=27 | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: if you want to know how dsme decides to restart a process: I don't know | 20:48 |
| jacekowski | i was thinking about SIGSTOPping runaway processes | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | suffices to reboot via dsme usually | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik | 20:49 |
| jacekowski | well process would still be in process list | 20:49 |
| jacekowski | just descheduled | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | so probably dsme isn't just watching if a process terminated, but also might check if it's running correctly | 20:49 |
| jacekowski | and SIGCONT would restart it | 20:50 |
| Mece | luke-jr, I guess I just don't know about the devices :) | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, I can do this with bme for example. But after 60s system reboots when bme is sigstopped | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: then otoh bme links to some dsmelib | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | so maybe it has dedicated 'watchdog' functions in dsme that are used by bme | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc | 20:52 |
| Mece | uu gotta head. ta. | 20:52 |
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| kerio | is there an easy way to install meego on the n900 as of now? | 20:53 |
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| luke-jr | kerio: yes, but I doubt it's usable | 20:54 |
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| kerio | meh, i just want to try it | 20:54 |
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| jo-erlend | there is a miniapplication called tsomething like "conversations". it shows me sms. it displays 43 (483). what does that mean? | 20:55 |
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| mirr0r | it means 43 different contacts | 20:56 |
| mirr0r | and a total of 483 messages | 20:56 |
| _llll_ | yeah, whoever decided that was sensible thing to show? | 20:57 |
| _llll_ | why not just "unread"? | 20:57 |
| mirr0r | you will see the new messages appear in the widget instantly | 20:58 |
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| kerio | is there documentation for bootmenu-n900 somewhere? | 20:58 |
| mirr0r | yea, google | 20:59 |
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| jo-erlend | ah. thanks. | 20:59 |
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| jacekowski | .text:0000D0F4 MOV R2, #0x10 | 21:06 |
| jacekowski | .text:0000D108 ADD R2, R2, #0x4F0 | 21:06 |
| jacekowski | gcc created that sort of code | 21:06 |
| lcuk | right jacekowski did you enable any sort of optimisation flags? | 21:07 |
| jacekowski | that's BME | 21:07 |
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| lcuk | no, thats batman | 21:07 |
| jacekowski | well, that r2 value was used | 21:09 |
| jacekowski | but i'm sort of surprised by gcc just using add instead of mov | 21:09 |
| jacekowski | esspecialy considering that mov is faster | 21:09 |
| lcuk | perhaps the opcode in question can only take one 16bit constant | 21:09 |
| jacekowski | all ARM opcodes are 32bit | 21:09 |
| jacekowski | and it can take 0x0500 | 21:10 |
| lcuk | all arm ops all the time are 32b? | 21:10 |
| jacekowski | yes | 21:10 |
| lcuk | and does a 32bit open code imply that you can use more than 16b of it for constants? | 21:10 |
| lcuk | (op code) | 21:10 |
| jacekowski | not always | 21:10 |
| RST38h | lcuk: yes | 21:10 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: it is doing the right thing | 21:11 |
| lcuk | RST38h, cool | 21:11 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: basically, it has a choice of add and orr and it is taking add | 21:11 |
| lcuk | how much space can be set aside for coonstants ? | 21:11 |
| RST38h | lcuk: 8 bits, shifted by any amount | 21:11 |
| jacekowski | depends on particular instruction | 21:11 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Hence are two instructions | 21:11 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: to load a single constant that does not fit 8bit shifted | 21:11 |
| lcuk | RST38h, ok, so - the arm 32bit opcodes can fit an 8bit constant | 21:12 |
| lcuk | which cant be shifted to wherever | 21:12 |
| lcuk | but basically | 21:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk: correct | 21:12 |
| RST38h | well it can be shifted | 21:12 |
| RST38h | but it is still going to be 8 bits | 21:12 |
| lcuk | sure | 21:13 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: in mov to register constant is bigger | 21:13 |
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| RST38h | i.e. 0x4F000 and 0x4F are ok but 0x14F is not | 21:13 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: sorry. no | 21:13 |
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| RST38h | But 0x500 satisfies the 8bit rule. Could you pastebin the whole fragment? Between the mov and add? | 21:14 |
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| jacekowski | http://pastebin.com/esBVsH2r | 21:15 |
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| jacekowski | and thing is that mov is faster as it can be satisfied by read from cache | 21:16 |
| jacekowski | without read from register | 21:16 |
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| RST38h | jacekowski: Well it is doinf the right thing | 21:17 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: would you like my ARM decompiling tools? :P | 21:17 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: MOV is not faster than add | 21:17 |
| RST38h | same on arm | 21:17 |
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| ajf_ | hello, im trying to use mutt in a screen session over ssh in the terminal on my n900, pressing the return button it says key not bound | 21:18 |
| jacekowski | timewise it's not | 21:18 |
| ajf_ | but it works anywhere else, noticed similar behavior in vi command mode | 21:18 |
| jacekowski | but things like that break out of order executions | 21:18 |
| ajf_ | something to do with newlines? | 21:18 |
| jacekowski | because it's creating dependencies where it's not required | 21:18 |
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| luke-jr | ajf_: more likely, it is a keypad Enter | 21:19 |
| ajf_ | yeah | 21:19 |
| luke-jr | ajf_: see if it works on a normal kb with that key | 21:19 |
| Arkenoi | So why h264 high profile 480p is too much for n900? Is h264 generally more cpu consuming than other codecs? | 21:20 |
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| luke-jr | Arkenoi: heck yes | 21:20 |
| luke-jr | Arkenoi: even my desktop PC can't handle h264 unless I tweak it | 21:20 |
| luke-jr | but then, it's not usually 480p either | 21:21 |
| Arkenoi | then what's the point of using it, why is it so popular? I do not see big compression or picture quality advantage there. | 21:21 |
| ajf_ | a normal keyboard (not sure what else that would be) on the n900 or my fedora laptop? that works fine | 21:21 |
| luke-jr | ajf_: a keyboard with two Enter keys | 21:21 |
| luke-jr | ajf_: try both of them on it | 21:21 |
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| ShadowJK | high profile is like 30% gain over baseline profile iirc | 21:24 |
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| Arkenoi | ShadowJK, compression gain? | 21:26 |
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| ShadowJK | ye | 21:27 |
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| RST38h | jacekowski: timewise, mov and add take exactly the same the way they are used in your fragment | 21:29 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: the only situation where you would get a stall is if you shift by a register R and that register R has been modified by the previous instruction | 21:29 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders why the hell Nokia decided to have KP-Enter instead of return on return key of hw-kbd | 21:29 | |
| RST38h | Doc: because they are evil | 21:30 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, because n8x0 and 770 use proper return in their DPAD centre | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMFG | 21:30 |
| lcuk | i believe anyway | 21:31 |
| RST38h | Yes, FJC indeed | 21:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | And what exactly where the muy importante aps that would break if we fix that shit NOW? | 21:32 |
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| RST38h | All the command line apps produced by Nokia? =) | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | didn't know there are any | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 21:33 |
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| * RST38h wonders if he should order the laptop today or wait until tomorrow, when he can do it through a US based proxy | 21:37 | |
| Venemo | hi all | 21:37 |
| Flyser | RST38h: are you talking about a http proxy or a real person? | 21:38 |
| RST38h | http of course | 21:38 |
| RST38h | why would I need a real person? | 21:38 |
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| Flyser | to order a laptop that is not available outside of the US | 21:39 |
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| luke-jr | lol | 21:39 |
| luke-jr | Flyser: I've never seen that | 21:40 |
| jacekowski | hmmmm, it looks like i've got not up to date header files | 21:40 |
| luke-jr | it's always other countries that require you be local to order | 21:40 |
| jacekowski | as i'm missing couple states | 21:40 |
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| Flyser | actually I want to order a specific model that is US-only. there seems to be no way to order it here in germany | 21:40 |
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| luke-jr | well, Germany sucks. so I can't say I'm surprised | 21:41 |
| luke-jr | anywhere else, I imagine you could just order from a US retailer online and have it shipped to you | 21:41 |
| Flyser | how does germany suck? and how is that related to notebooks? | 21:41 |
| luke-jr | Flyser: many many ways | 21:41 |
| luke-jr | Flyser: but then, if I discuss it with you, you might be liable for talking about it! | 21:41 |
| Flyser | lol | 21:42 |
| Flyser | I doubt | 21:42 |
| b-man | woot!! i got a minimal debian sid system running on my N900 | 21:43 |
| luke-jr | Flyser: I seem to recall a recent article about some old guy getting arrested for having a recording of Hitler as his ringtone | 21:43 |
| luke-jr | Flyser: not to mention the mandatory brainwashing | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I agree Germany sucks - it's too obediant to USA insane demands | 21:43 |
| Flyser | what do you mean by "mandatory brainwashing" | 21:44 |
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| luke-jr | Flyser: you probably call it "schools" | 21:44 |
| Flyser | lol | 21:44 |
| jacekowski | http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone-4-Gyroscope-Teardown/3156/1 | 21:44 |
| jacekowski | sexy | 21:44 |
| Flyser | so how did my school brainwash me? | 21:44 |
| Venemo | Is there anyone here from the Hildon-Extras project? | 21:45 |
| luke-jr | Flyser: that's what "schools" do | 21:45 |
| Flyser | oh so your point is that schools shouldn't be mandatory | 21:45 |
| Flyser | ? | 21:45 |
| luke-jr | Flyser: nor norm | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yeah anupright US citizen insists in his right to stay uneducated like a cup of cornflakes. That's for sure evil in Germany | 21:45 |
| luke-jr | schools became mandatory in Germany under the Nazis ;) | 21:46 |
| luke-jr | http://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Germany/ | 21:46 |
| Flyser | DocScrutinizer51: I couldn't say it any better :D | 21:46 |
| Flyser | so? they also introduced "mothers day" | 21:46 |
| luke-jr | basically all national-run schools brainwash, not educate | 21:46 |
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| Flyser | so you never went to school? | 21:48 |
| b-man | ~ping MohammadAG51 | 21:48 |
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| infobot | pong MohammadAG51 | 21:48 |
| luke-jr | Flyser: when I was younger, I did | 21:48 |
| luke-jr | I also wasted a year in college | 21:48 |
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| Flyser | and how did they try to brainwash you? what were the things you were told to believe, but aren't true? | 21:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr: (brainwash) they succeed in that only with pupils that really need that kind of tratment | 21:49 |
| luke-jr | Flyser: true or not is irrelevant | 21:51 |
| Flyser | okay. so your definition of brainwashing also includes "teaching facts"? | 21:51 |
| ptl | points of view | 21:51 |
| ptl | are not "facts" per se | 21:51 |
| luke-jr | 1 : a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas | 21:51 |
| luke-jr | 2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr: for a large fraction of us Europeans schools are a place to learn withstand all kind of brainwash, so we don't e.g elect G.W. Bush for even a 2nd period | 21:52 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: I'm all for USA bashing, but it could be worse-- it could be UK or Germany! | 21:52 |
| crashanddie | that's enough everyone | 21:53 |
| luke-jr | :) | 21:53 |
| b-man | lol | 21:53 |
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| Flyser | Actually I prefer 12 years of education over a few more available notebook models. You are right. That is enough ;) | 21:54 |
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| luke-jr | education would teach one to learn, not just force memorization of proposed "facts" | 21:56 |
| Flyser | That is what I did at school :) | 21:56 |
| jacekowski | well, there are some reforms that HAVE to be done but nobody will do it | 21:56 |
| jacekowski | school should be public in a way that everybody have a chance regardless of background | 21:56 |
| jacekowski | but if somebody is just stupid then GTFO | 21:57 |
| crashanddie | guys, ##politics | 21:57 |
| luke-jr | lol | 21:57 |
| jacekowski | at the moment people that are not interested at all are mixed with everybody else | 21:57 |
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| jacekowski | and we pretend that everybody should get education | 21:58 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: stfu, please | 21:58 |
| luke-jr | it's a duty of parents to educate their children. ##education for more :) | 21:58 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: thanks | 21:58 |
| jacekowski | #pepsi, ask for more | 21:58 |
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| crashanddie | luke-jr: does that channel actually exist? | 21:58 |
| jacekowski | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ask_for_More | 21:58 |
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| luke-jr | crashanddie: it does now | 21:58 |
| |R | great phone started rebooting in loop... | 21:59 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: soemone else has it registered, but it's otherwise empty | 21:59 |
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| RST38h | Done. | 22:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | hey | 22:07 |
| Trizt | hi | 22:07 |
| timeless_mbp | could someone in .fi please help explain what the SubTV Starwars trooper ads are about? | 22:07 |
| nas_ | is there any way to make full screen easydebian applications ? I mean to hide the time / status / title bar ... | 22:09 |
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| Kegetys | the what ads? | 22:09 |
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| mikki-kun | Kegetys: advertisments | 22:12 |
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| Kegetys | I know what an ad is | 22:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | there are ads w/ storm troopers | 22:23 |
| timeless_mbp | they sometimes look like your average "will work for food" homeless people | 22:23 |
| timeless_mbp | but the text is in finnish, and they're wearing storm trooper uniforms | 22:23 |
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| Wolfie | timeless_mbp: ep1 played last weekend | 22:24 |
| Wolfie | yesterday, actually, iirc | 22:24 |
| Wolfie | perhaps they show 1-6 during the following weekends? | 22:24 |
| slonopotamus_ | <.< | 22:24 |
| Wolfie | well, ep2 will air next sunday, too... i see a pattern | 22:25 |
| timeless_mbp | yes it did | 22:25 |
| timeless_mbp | but is that what the ads were for? | 22:25 |
| timeless_mbp | it seems like overkill | 22:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | there's a different set of ads that lists the schedule for the ep1/ep2s | 22:25 |
| timeless_mbp | i've seen those too | 22:25 |
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| Wolfie | timeless_mbp: hardly overkill if they aim to sell plenty of expensive ad time | 22:26 |
| Wolfie | during the films, that is | 22:27 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 22:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | w00t_: fwiw, you can just use 'timeless' if you want to credit me :) | 22:28 |
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| w00t_ | tab completion: making my life easier since before I remember | 22:28 |
| w00t_ | :-P | 22:28 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 22:28 |
| FIQ | hi | 22:29 |
| FIQ | some time ago, i managed to broke the bash icon somehow. Could someone point me to the xterm.desktop file? | 22:30 |
| * timeless_mbp spots a normal SWep2 ad | 22:30 | |
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| kerio | the bash icon? | 22:31 |
| FIQ | the xterm one | 22:32 |
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| DrGrov | Good evening everyone | 22:34 |
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| kerio | i still can't swap my shell btw :( | 22:35 |
| lcuk | kerio, was it you stuck with the wrong one and not able to reboot incase? | 22:35 |
| kerio | yup | 22:35 |
| lcuk | did you reboot since if so? | 22:35 |
| kerio | yeah, i did | 22:35 |
| kerio | then i reflashed :3 | 22:35 |
| FIQ | isn't it just editing /etc/passwd? | 22:36 |
| kerio | yeah, but you shouldn't do that | 22:36 |
| * FIQ did it and uses bash as default shell for a long time | 22:36 | |
| FIQ | meh | 22:36 |
| FIQ | what could go wrong? | 22:36 |
| kerio | i also changed root's shell | 22:36 |
| kerio | so... yeah | 22:36 |
| FIQ | *10 mins later* | 22:36 |
| kerio | try rebooting! | 22:37 |
| FIQ | "omg, i need reflash!" | 22:37 |
| FIQ | lol | 22:37 |
| kerio | and post your /etc/shells if you have it | 22:37 |
| FIQ | i've rebooted several times | 22:37 |
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| FIQ | it was months ago | 22:37 |
| FIQ | :P | 22:37 |
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| FIQ | cat: can't open '/etc/shells': No such file or directory | 22:38 |
| FIQ | guess not | 22:38 |
| kerio | hmm | 22:38 |
| kerio | root's shell is still /bin/sh though, right? | 22:38 |
| FIQ | yep | 22:39 |
| FIQ | user:!:29999:29999::/home/user:/bin/bash | 22:39 |
| FIQ | only edited that one | 22:39 |
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| kerio | if i need to reflash i'm going to be *so* pissed | 22:45 |
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| D-Iivil | Evening. | 22:46 |
| kerio | what checks does gainroot do? | 22:47 |
| kerio | can i just tell sudo to give user all commands with no password? | 22:48 |
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| Jaffa | Ev'ning | 22:50 |
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| * D-Iivil is enjoying the insomnia :] | 22:50 | |
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| Macer | damn i hope some more work goes into mobilehotspot | 22:54 |
| Macer | :) it works but damn is it flakey | 22:54 |
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| Macer | yawn | 22:56 |
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| FIQ | hi | 22:59 |
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| * timeless_mbp sighs | 23:04 | |
| timeless_mbp | you'd think the guys working on Symbian advertising Qt would know how to spell Qt | 23:04 |
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| alterego | Just noticed an interesting bug | 23:04 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 23:04 | |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: Does it involve the complete conversion of the n900 to energy, and an approximately 10 megaton resultant blast? | 23:04 |
| * timeless_mbp kicks oreilly | 23:04 | |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: no | 23:05 |
| SpeedEvil | boring then. | 23:05 |
| alterego | When you've got a full screen app, and you go to the dashboard/task-switcher, the top of the application isn't viewable, because it incorrectly replaces the status bar that isn't there with the window title. | 23:05 |
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| kerio | even worse is that xchat doesn't understand clicks on *that* part of the screen when in fullscreen mode | 23:06 |
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| oKtosiTe | Quick question; is there a way to have popup menus appear to the left of the stylus? I find the default behaviour on my N900 quite irritating, since I'm right-handed, and menus consistently appear underneath my finger, where I obviously can not read them. | 23:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | oKtosiTe++ | 23:21 |
| SpComb | password change time | 23:23 |
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| SpComb | almost :) | 23:24 |
| Trizt | which keys did you have to press to take a screenshot of the current screen? timeless_mbp ? | 23:27 |
| FIQ | lol | 23:27 |
| FIQ | nice load test | 23:27 |
| timeless_mbp | ctrl-shift-p | 23:27 |
| FIQ | aMSN was coming up with the idea of opening like 100 windows about contact adding | 23:28 |
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| FIQ | dunno why | 23:28 |
| FIQ | was forced to "killall amsn" | 23:28 |
| FIQ | suprised that the phone survived | 23:28 |
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| Trizt | found it | 23:29 |
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| thresh | moo. | 23:31 |
| thresh | upstart: PreDepends: sysvinit-utils (>= 2.86.ds1-23) or busybox (>= 3:1.6.1.legal-1osso8) but it is not going to be installed | 23:31 |
| b-man | ~moo | 23:31 |
| * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass | 23:31 | |
| thresh | am i the only one having that ? | 23:31 |
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| oKtosiTe | I just spoke to a friend who said the popup menus already appear under his finger on the N810. I would think something this elementary would have been fixed ages ago... | 23:35 |
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| mneptok | i'm a bit cinfused about whether MeeGo will be made available as a supported platform for N900 users | 23:36 |
| mneptok | *confused | 23:36 |
| Robot101 | supported? no. reference platform for developers, most likely. | 23:36 |
| mneptok | i'm reading conflicting reports. some so Nokia is relegating N900 users to continued use of Maemo, others say the N900 is a reference platform for MeeGo. | 23:36 |
| Robot101 | there is no relegation, Maemo is what the N900 was sold with | 23:37 |
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| mneptok | well, i got my N900 last week, and while it's a great phone, it has some major issues. | 23:37 |
| oKtosiTe | mneptok, like? | 23:38 |
| mneptok | things that it seems the average user would want to work seamlessly, and do not. e.g. syncing mail, contacts and claendars from Google. | 23:38 |
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| Robot101 | you can use nuevasync to sync with google | 23:39 |
| mneptok | MfE will only sync my calendar. otherwise the process just times out. an initial contact sync worked, now it utterly fails. | 23:39 |
| Robot101 | or syncevo, if google offers syncml? | 23:39 |
| Robot101 | the MfE stuff is only very marginally compatible with google | 23:39 |
| mneptok | NuevaSync is a commercial, pay-for product, no? | 23:40 |
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| Robot101 | yeah | 23:40 |
| mneptok | an Android phone will do this without me having to shell out extra money above and beyond the handset cost | 23:40 |
| LuciusMare | Hi, where are the file (picture) thumbnails stored? | 23:40 |
| Robot101 | cool | 23:40 |
| Robot101 | take your N900 back and enjoy life then :) | 23:41 |
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| Robot101 | maemo is not unsupported | 23:41 |
| Robot101 | we have quite a lot of people working on it with nokia still | 23:41 |
| mneptok | i think that's hardly the answer Nokia would want to give customers. | 23:41 |
| *** sar3th|away is now known as sar3th | 23:41 | |
| Robot101 | well, I'm not Nokia - if I was I wouldn't have wasted the past 18+ months rewriting huge chunks of the platform with subtly different technology while the market moved on around me :P | 23:42 |
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| Robot101 | anyway I believe you can make google sync work using syncml for contacts | 23:43 |
| Robot101 | which is free | 23:43 |
| kerio | Robot101: yeah | 23:44 |
| kerio | that's what MfE does | 23:44 |
| Robot101 | no it's not, MfE is Microsoft's proprietary ActiveSync protocol | 23:44 |
| kerio | oh right | 23:44 |
| Robot101 | Google and MfE's implementations are pretty untested against each other and compatibility is quite marginal/unreliable | 23:45 |
| kerio | you need a syncml-through-http client though | 23:45 |
| kerio | there's one in the repos | 23:45 |
| mneptok | Google's SyncML instructions only reference Symbian for N-series phones. | 23:45 |
| Robot101 | you can install SyncEvolution on the N900 and use SyncML very reliably | 23:45 |
| kerio | yeah, that one | 23:45 |
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| Robot101 | mneptok: SyncEvo is 3rd-party | 23:45 |
| Robot101 | but I use it, it works really wekk | 23:45 |
| Robot101 | *well | 23:45 |
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| mneptok | so is Nokia actually selling a hpne that will use MeeGo in any supported sense? | 23:46 |
| mneptok | *phone | 23:47 |
| mneptok | (damn these mitts) | 23:47 |
| kerio | Robot101: does it sync IM informations? | 23:47 |
| jacekowski | not at the moment | 23:47 |
| kerio | and do they work afterwards? | 23:47 |
| Robot101 | kerio: no, it demerges contacts, because the contacts team didn't listen to me... :P | 23:47 |
| jacekowski | but they will release meego device soon | 23:47 |
| oKtosiTe | Robot101, thanks for the heads up, will give that a go myself. | 23:47 |
| kerio | Robot101: wtf | 23:48 |
| kerio | it's unusable then | 23:48 |
| kerio | :/ | 23:48 |
| Robot101 | kerio: only if they change | 23:48 |
| Robot101 | kerio: and I have a contacts merger button | 23:48 |
| kerio | i have too | 23:48 |
| mneptok | so a month after the first release of MeeGo is made public i buy Nokia's flagship smartphone, but it won't actually ever run MeeGo | 23:48 |
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| Robot101 | I'm trying to convince one of our guys to fix the sync stuff | 23:48 |
| kerio | mneptok: yup | 23:48 |
| mneptok | that's incredibly poor form, IMO | 23:48 |
| kerio | Robot101: wait, you work for nokia? | 23:48 |
| Robot101 | kerio: Collabora, subcontractor | 23:49 |
| Robot101 | kerio: the guy who sits behind me wrote the contact merger | 23:49 |
| Robot101 | (barisione) | 23:49 |
| kerio | tell the contact team they made a crappy job | 23:49 |
| kerio | and tell barisione i want to suck his dick | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | oi, behave | 23:50 |
| kerio | (you know, metaphorically) | 23:50 |
| mneptok | Robot101: to get SyncEvo do i have to enable a new repo, or .... ? | 23:50 |
| Robot101 | kerio: well, barisione was on the contacts team too, but it wasn't all us, so we can take the credit for the good parts and blame others for the faults :D | 23:50 |
| mneptok | nm, found the wiki page | 23:51 |
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| Robot101 | but in this case, i specifically told them only to make backreferences from the master contacts to the IM contacts as an optimisation/cache, and not to rely on them | 23:51 |
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| Robot101 | and someone who joined the team later changed it | 23:52 |
| w00t_ | :( | 23:52 |
| * lcuk likes the merger and all the hard optimisations barisione and the guys have been doing | 23:52 | |
| Robot101 | yeah the merger is <3 | 23:52 |
| lcuk | its a shame the ops in here arent as attentive | 23:52 |
| mneptok | you know, syncing contacts, calendars and mail from Google is like *basic* functionality for a smartphone in 2010. the fact that it is labyrinthine to the point of being impossible on Nokia's best smartphone offering is indefensible. | 23:53 |
| alterego | The lack of information on the Navilinik GPS in the N900 is outstanding .. | 23:53 |
| alterego | I just want to know how many channels it has :( | 23:53 |
| Stskeeps | alterego: it sits behind the cellmo | 23:53 |
| alterego | Yeah, I know that (which is f*cking strange) | 23:53 |
| Robot101 | mneptok: look, seriously. our job is not to defend Nokia's decisions. this is a community working with what there is, and you have that. so if you don't like it, find another group of people to bitch about Nokia with. | 23:53 |
| alterego | Though I imagine it means that Nokia can control our GPS' without us knowing :P | 23:53 |
| Robot101 | mneptok: people here will help you but not if you're just consistently hostile and have nothing more productive to say other than, Nokia should know better. | 23:54 |
| Robot101 | yes, maybe they should, but nobody here can do more about it than they already are, nor speak for Nokia with any more authority than you. | 23:54 |
| kerio | Robot101: well, to be fair, Nokia *should* know better | 23:54 |
| kerio | ;) | 23:54 |
| mneptok | Robot101: i'm not being hostile. i'm giving my feedback as an average user (not a mobile dev). | 23:54 |
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| Robot101 | MeeGo might well work on the N900, but if you made 10s of products a year, would /you/ commit to supporting all new platforms on all old devices? the next Nokia MeeGo device is not going to be 100% MeeGo either, so how many do you want them to port and test and certify MeeGo with exactly? | 23:55 |
| Robot101 | note, it costs /at least/ hundreds of thousands to test and certify a handset with its software stack | 23:55 |
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| kerio | Robot101: well, releasing a full source code would certainly help the community | 23:56 |
| Robot101 | it could easily be more money than they made selling N900s yet | 23:56 |
| Robot101 | kerio: and is also very very expensive | 23:56 |
| kerio | 100 developers < 100000 developers | 23:56 |
| mneptok | Robot101: i would expect that Nokia would choose to support MeeGo on the flagship device they are shipping at the time of the 1.0 release. | 23:56 |
| Robot101 | mneptok: handsets take longer than that to develop | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | Robot101: about certification.. i wonder if meego could do something like a certification on 1.1, which people can base their own certifications off | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | Robot101: not sure how it works | 23:56 |
| Robot101 | the next platform is "MeeGo-Harmattan" which is closer to Maemo 6 than MeeGo | 23:56 |
| Robot101 | MeeGo announcements so far are about an open source (ish) project | 23:57 |
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| Robot101 | not a commercial phone platform | 23:57 |
| Robot101 | wait for the device announcements if you want that | 23:57 |
| Robot101 | and, sorry for snapping at you, but I'm getting a bit fed up with people giving such unmitigated shit to Nokia | 23:58 |
| Robot101 | (not just you) | 23:58 |
| mneptok | well, IMO this is mitigated sh*t ;) | 23:59 |
| Robot101 | I run a company dealing with a lot of the commercial realities of open source, lawyers, contracts, etc etc | 23:59 |
| jacekowski | kerio: full source is not going to help a lot | 23:59 |
| Robot101 | and I have /some/ appreciation of the forces that Nokia is underh ere | 23:59 |
| jacekowski | kerio: only 1% of total users will ever bother to write a line of code | 23:59 |
| Robot101 | but there is a group of people that would rant and moan at Nokia for not open sourcing and announcing their platform early enough etc | 23:59 |
| *** gaveen has joined #maemo | 23:59 | |
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