IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-06-29

DocScrutinizer	so 500 is usually ok then	00:00
luke-jr	flailingmonkey: as DocScrutinizer says, Nokia would need to have people review the code to even determine if there are legal issues	00:00
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DocScrutinizer	exactly	00:00
ShadowJK	I'm guessing usb certification would frown on no enum ->500mA though :)	00:01
DocScrutinizer	I heard Nokia had the bme done by contractors for some decades now (well one decade), and that's why obviously there's no inhouse knowledge at Nokia about all that charger & bme stuff	00:01
flailingmonkey	luke-jr, DocScrutinizer: I understand, but I suspect the IP is not patents, rather copyright	00:02
luke-jr	flailingmonkey: probably both	00:02
Scelt	http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/new_york_post_usa_football_failure.jpg - bad loser?	00:02
luke-jr	everything is patented	00:02
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: probably none. but as said above, nobody can know, as the nature of the issue prevents tackling it	00:03
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: realistically, you can't write a copyrightable software without infringing some patent	00:03
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wazd1	Stskeeps: ping? :)	00:03
mortini	luke-jr: i've copyrighted that statement.	00:03
mortini	luke-jr: you owe me 5 dev null's.	00:03
luke-jr	mortini: nope, I did first	00:04
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: realistically Nokia isn't bothering to look nto it	00:04
* mortini shows prior art.		00:04
DocScrutinizer	obviously	00:04
pyther24	Hey	00:04
luke-jr	mortini: prior art has no relevance to copyright	00:04
* mortini makes it so.		00:04
luke-jr	crap, mortini is a lawyer?	00:04
* mortini alters reality.		00:04
pyther24	Does anyone know of any clover way to trick my device into using localhost:993 when it tries to connect to pyther.net:993	00:04
mortini	No.	00:04
luke-jr	oh, no, he thinks he's God	00:04
mortini	Just waiting for a few minutes so I can go home.	00:04
luke-jr	pyther24: /etc/hosts	00:04
ShadowJK	Copyright wouldn't prevent nokia from writing a spec for someone else to implement	00:05
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luke-jr	ShadowJK: correct	00:05
luke-jr	but that also takes time	00:05
DocScrutinizer	pyther24: that's usually what /etc/hosts is for	00:05
ShadowJK	yep	00:05
* flailingmonkey shakes his head as nubs don't know about the differences between IP, or the high difficulty of using prior art to defeat any patent		00:05
BCMM	what is the thing in the n900 that does video decoding called?	00:05
BCMM	it's on the tip of my tongue	00:05
pyther24	ok, I guess I'll have to write a script that will use ssh to forward port 993 to localhost and then add/remove a line for mail.pyther.net	00:05
* ShadowJK is mostly unconvinced there's anything in bme that's crucial..		00:05
luke-jr	ShadowJK: the battery doesn't charge w/o BME	00:06
flailingmonkey	SGX PowerVG?	00:06
microlith	BCMM: the DSP?	00:06
BCMM	microlith: thank you!	00:06
mortini	pyther24: you might want to bind it to another loopback address, like lo1 and give it 127.0.1.11 or whatever	00:06
luke-jr	pyther24: ... so ignore the obvious solutions we gave you?	00:06
mortini	not that it particularly matters.	00:06
ShadowJK	luke-jr: me and SpeedEvil have both written scripts to charge without bme on n900 :P	00:06
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: the problem is we can't proove this to Nokia :-P	00:06
luke-jr	ShadowJK: N810	00:07
flailingmonkey	pyther24: you just put an entry into /etc/hosts that says pyther.net is 127.0.0.1	00:07
pyther24	but I need to access pyther.net and pyther.net is not 127.0.0.1	00:07
BCMM	microlith: and how does it work? is it basically a small FPGA or what?	00:07
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: I haven't even need of a script :-P	00:07
pyther24	I just need port fowarding (ssh) for mail	00:07
ShadowJK	docscrutinizer: I'd say if they're saying a jrbme isn't safe they should maybe elaborate...	00:07
trem	nite all, sweet dreams	00:07
pyther24	as all ports are pretty much blocked here	00:07
luke-jr	pyther24: your question was unclear	00:07
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flailingmonkey	pyther24: ah, so just that one port.	00:08
pyther24	yes	00:08
luke-jr	pyther24: but still, you want the same thing	00:08
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: ack	00:08
ShadowJK	Well without script it charfges at 100mA to 3.7V? :)	00:08
DocScrutinizer	that's what I'm about to do now - provide a jrbme with proof of WFM	00:08
microlith	BCMM: not quite (though that'd be cool,) more a processor geared around performing the same sequence of operations to huge chunks of data, usually streaming data	00:08
pyther24	though now that I think about it, I can't ssh from this phone (port is blocked)	00:08
luke-jr	lol	00:08
pyther24	gah I get to get this stupid network fixed	00:08
DocScrutinizer	plus rationale how it works and why	00:08
alterego	microlith: sounds like OpenCL/CUDA/Stream	00:09
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: without enum you can't pull more than 100mA	00:09
pyther24	we need to allow established tcp sessions trusted devices	00:09
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microlith	alterego: to some degree, yes	00:09
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: how would you enum to a charger?	00:09
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: and yes we can ;-P	00:09
jacekowski	ehh	00:09
jacekowski	well, you detect charger	00:09
jacekowski	if it's not a charger	00:09
jacekowski	you have to enum	00:09
DocScrutinizer	and if that fails?	00:10
jacekowski	leave it	00:10
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DocScrutinizer	fsckit	00:10
jacekowski	100mA isn't worth effort	00:10
DocScrutinizer	then it's a charging HUB	00:10
DocScrutinizer	and a charging hub is capable of delivering 500	00:10
jacekowski	or PC	00:10
DocScrutinizer	so if enum fails, we crank up to 500	00:10
jacekowski	with OS that hanged	00:11
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DocScrutinizer	I don't care	00:11
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jacekowski	or PC connected via cable without d+- lines	00:11
DocScrutinizer	I don't care	00:11
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luke-jr	wait, USB devices can crash a PC directly?	00:11
jacekowski	you seem to apply BME policy now	00:11
jacekowski	don't care	00:11
jacekowski	just make it pretend that it's working	00:11
ShadowJK	I wouldn't put no-enum->500mA in any jrbme versions before nokia has stopped the fud ;)	00:12
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: you're talking BS and stealing my time.	00:12
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* DocScrutinizer afk		00:12
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microlith	luke-jr: why couldn't they?	00:12
jacekowski	that was harsh	00:12
pyther24	Is fm-boost safe to use?	00:12
Appiah	jupp	00:12
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: sorry	00:12
Appiah	I use it everyday	00:12
jacekowski	sort of unexpected from you	00:13
alterego	pyther24: define safe? Do you mean, will it blow your brains up?	00:13
alterego	pyther24: it'll increase battery usage but it's perfectly fine :P	00:13
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jacekowski	i would expect that from MohammadAG51	00:13
luke-jr	microlith: circuit breakers to prevent overloading?	00:13
pyther24	alterego, ok cool	00:13
microlith	luke-jr: oh, you said crash, not short	00:13
luke-jr	pyther24: it's illegal in various places	00:13
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: sorry again. Look at mug warmers. they do much worse than "no enum?->500"	00:13
pyther24	luke-jr, do you know about the states?	00:13
* DocScrutinizer away now		00:14
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luke-jr	pyther24: I think so	00:14
Pavlov	is the ovi store down for people?	00:14
Pavlov	"not available for your device" heh	00:14
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: if the host doesn't enum, then it's supposed to not break on a attached device drawing 500. period	00:14
microlith	Pavlov: been that way for at least the past week	00:15
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: well, i design devices that have to be faultproof and idiotproof and everythingproof	00:15
pyther24	meh I like to live life on the edge	00:15
Pavlov	microlith: it was ok a day or two ago	00:15
luke-jr	pyther24: then you should setup a pirate GSM service too	00:15
luke-jr	pyther24: I'll pay you for service in Omaha	00:15
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: so i would just go with option of fallback to safest option	00:15
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: fact is almost no host even checks for <500 according to enum	00:15
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DocScrutinizer	most don't even check for >500	00:16
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: my laptop does	00:16
ShadowJK	mine does	00:16
pyther24	luke-jr, haha I don't think I'll get in much trouble for my fm transmitter be to powerful	00:16
pyther24	at most a fine	00:16
ShadowJK	(desktop)	00:16
jacekowski	i had it killing usb hdd's	00:16
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jacekowski	and lot of other stuff	00:16
luke-jr	pyther24: seriously, I'll pay you $30/mo for GSM in Omaha :D	00:16
pyther24	luke-jr, haha, I don't have any background on GSM	00:16
jacekowski	something with usb port that complies with a spec makes you see how many devices don't care about specs	00:16
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luke-jr	pyther24: you take the legal and financial risks, I'll do the tech side :D	00:17
DocScrutinizer	there's a butload of USB devices out there that don't even try to enum for 500 before starting to draw more than 100	00:17
pyther24	:)	00:17
luke-jr	pyther24: OpenBTS ftw	00:17
DocScrutinizer	and hosts are mandatory able to cope witht hat	00:17
jacekowski	pyther24: fm-boost is illegal in us	00:18
DocScrutinizer	they may shitdown on overcurrent	00:18
ShadowJK	But it seems Nokia had to follow usb spec to the letter to get the USB logo, hence the no_enum->100mA is "correct" in their books :)	00:18
DocScrutinizer	but they mustn't break	00:18
DocScrutinizer	so ->500 on enum-fail is a sane thing to do	00:18
pyther24	jacekowski, do you know the penalties? A fine from the fcc?	00:18
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luke-jr	pyther24: life in jail	00:19
luke-jr	j/k	00:19
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: sure it is, but do WE care?	00:19
jacekowski	pyther24: couple years jailtime	00:19
luke-jr	jacekowski: srsly?	00:19
DocScrutinizer	anyway, now for real... see ya	00:19
jacekowski	luke-jr: i don't know	00:19
Pavlov	i guess it has sbeen going up and down	00:19
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ShadowJK	docscrutinizer: I'd say at first safe and proper, then the fun	00:19
jacekowski	penalty of up to $11000 per day and one year in jail	00:20
pyther24	That is probably for people broadcasting stuff out of their home	00:20
pyther24	they probably don't care much about mobile users	00:21
jacekowski	penalties are still the same	00:21
pyther24	but you'd have to get caught	00:21
jacekowski	that's really easy	00:22
pyther24	how so?	00:22
luke-jr	jacekowski: fm-boost is easy to catch?	00:23
jacekowski	well, any transmission is quite easy to detect	00:23
jacekowski	and triangulate	00:23
jacekowski	in less than second	00:23
luke-jr	jacekowski: triangulation requires signal AFAIK	00:23
jacekowski	and technology has been around for like 70 years now	00:23
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luke-jr	fm-boost has a range so short, you'd be able to just glance around	00:24
BCMM	tbh, the laws are there for targeting pirate radio stations, and probably nobody will notice	00:24
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flailingmonkey	frankly, they just don't care	00:24
jacekowski	luke-jr: not really	00:24
BCMM	if it got popular, some police department with nothing better to do could start trying	00:24
jacekowski	luke-jr: every radio signal has infinite range	00:24
jacekowski	luke-jr: but it's getting weaker with distance	00:25
BCMM	you could do it by cruising up and down a busy highway with the right equipment...	00:25
jacekowski	luke-jr: but it never disappears	00:25
BCMM	jacekowski: of course it doesn't; it just gets drown by all the other source of radio noise	00:25
jacekowski	and triangulation is just a matter of seconds	00:26
BCMM	like big transmitters, and static, and the CMB, and lighting strikes and spark plugs and people with cheap carpets and cheaper shoes	00:26
jacekowski	during WWII technology allowed to detect transmissions from far far away	00:26
flailingmonkey	the laws exist so that, if they want to arrest you, they can usually find some law you've broken	00:26
jacekowski	that were only seconds long	00:26
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luke-jr	if you could get the timing just right, you might be able to have multiple diverse transmitters broadcast the same data concurrently and confuse triangulation	00:26
BCMM	anyway, they'd have to actually notice the transmission first	00:27
BCMM	and hte n900 can't go that far over regulatory requirements	00:27
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jacekowski	BCMM: that was the thing with technology	00:27
jacekowski	BCMM: 70 years ago	00:27
BCMM	from a long range, you'd be hard-pressed to distinguish an illegal device inside a car from a legal one not inside a car	00:28
jacekowski	BCMM: there was couple antennas around the country	00:28
jacekowski	BCMM: sets of antennas	00:28
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jacekowski	BCMM: and every single set was able to detect direction quite precisely	00:28
luke-jr	meh	00:29
jacekowski	BCMM: and then you just use data from all of them and you have your source	00:29
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luke-jr	just set off an EMP before you setup the transmitter	00:29
luke-jr	then you can be sure nobody will triangulate	00:29
BCMM	jacekowski: i seriously doubt that the n900's FM could be detected from tens of miles away	00:29
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: btw though "no enum -> 100" might be correct in their book, trying to enum forever and even increasing power drain from bat by that surely isn't	00:29
BCMM	jacekowski: not because it would be too weak, but just because we make so much noise these days	00:29
jacekowski	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_Cage	00:30
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: so they didn't adhere to what's corect in their book	00:30
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DocScrutinizer	and we won't learn to do it better, by RE of BME	00:31
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jacekowski	The arrangement permits accurate direction finding of signals from up to 4000 nautical miles (7 408 km) away.	00:31
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jacekowski	Advances in technology have made the FLR-9 almost obsolete.	00:31
BCMM	jacekowski: "Each ring of elements receives rf signals for an assigned portion of the 1.5 to 30-MHz radio spectrum."	00:32
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BCMM	jacekowski: also, it sounds as if it was being used by intelligence services, rather than by local cops chasing pirate radio stations	00:33
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DocScrutinizer	BCMM: they can't tell apart -111 from -103 dBm even for transmitters more than 100m away	00:34
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DocScrutinizer	BCMM: so don't worry	00:34
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BCMM	DocScrutinizer: i wasn't worrying	00:35
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: i think i said as much by saying that being inside a metal box like a car probably makes a greater difference to signal strength than fm-boost does	00:35
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: jacekowski: telling directions precisely is a different story than telling TX power correctly	00:35
BCMM	thank you :)	00:35
jacekowski	but it's still illegal	00:36
jacekowski	and he can still go to jail	00:36
BCMM	jacekowski: no he can't because he won't be caught...	00:36
BCMM	basically, a bunch of stuff is illegal	00:36
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BCMM	i think using fm-boost is probably safer than pot or downloading mp3s	00:37
alterego	Where's the maemo source tree now-a-days?	00:38
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: any idea what sort of tech they do use for tracking pirate stations, given that multimillion dollar military sigint facilities are probably busy doing something else?	00:38
alterego	Can't find the subversion for all their packages ..	00:38
DocScrutinizer51	doesn't matter as n900 isn't a pirate station by their definitions	00:39
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BCMM	DocScrutinizer51: so broadcasting slightly over what is permitted is a different crime from running a proper pirate radio station that you can listen to a block away?	00:40
DocScrutinizer51	your neighbour might complain, then FCC or whoever sends a RF analizer truck	00:40
DocScrutinizer51	yes	00:41
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BCMM	DocScrutinizer51: and i wasn't asking because i think anyone is going to track down an n900's fmtx, i was just curious	00:41
flailingmonkey	alterego: its on gitoreous	00:42
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luke-jr	alterego: Maemo isn't open source.	00:43
DocScrutinizer51	basically there's not going to be any autonomous action by FCC. It's always somebody complaining and then they come, locate the device, andmcheck it	00:43
alterego	luke-jr: a lot of it's components are, and I'm looking for them.	00:43
luke-jr	alterego: various (mostly independent) parts/libraires used are	00:43
luke-jr	but don't expect them to have source in the same place	00:44
luke-jr	and very few projects use Subversion anymore	00:44
flailingmonkey	this whole discussion is moot, as the whole point of the fm tx requires a relatively quiet frequency, and won't interrupt licensed broadcasters	00:44
alterego	There's a fair amount of open Nokia projects too. Regardless, why are you mentioning this when all I want to know is the location of their source tree?	00:44
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer51: wait, so if I run a pirate GSM service, and nobody complains, I can get away with it?	00:44
ShadowJK	maemo.gitorious.org has alot of it iirc	00:44
* DrGrov needs something to do until 04:00 which is still 3h 15min away. Suggestions are accepted		00:44
DocScrutinizer51	if they find the device doesn't comply, then they may ask you to fix that, or sue you	00:44
flailingmonkey	luke-jr: set pedantic_mode=off	00:44
alterego	They used to have it all under subversion under maemo.org but I'm guessing that's dead now and I can't off hand remember where it was ..	00:45
DocScrutinizer51	luke-jr: sure	00:45
flailingmonkey	ShadowJK: thanks, i knew i misspelled it	00:45
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alterego	Well, I'll try the git then	00:45
BCMM	DocScrutinizer51: "sue you"? so it's actually only a civil issue?	00:45
flailingmonkey	and the idea of criminal charges for that whole topic is beyond farfetched.	00:45
luke-jr	alterego: there's a bit of learning curve, but git is awesome	00:45
flailingmonkey	BCMM: yes.	00:46
DocScrutinizer51	BCMM: depend	00:46
alterego	luke-jr: yeah, I'm going to have to learn it one of these days :)	00:46
DocScrutinizer51	mostly yes	00:46
luke-jr	flailingmonkey: pretty sure if you disrupt 911 service for a major city, it'll be criminal :)	00:46
DocScrutinizer51	BCMM: except if you did something dangerous like interfering with airplane radio etc	00:47
BCMM	heh	00:47
DrGrov	Anyone got a screenshot of that latest R-Style Green Theme by D-Iivil that has come to the extras repositories?	00:47
alterego	Has anyone tried to "backport" any of the apps Nokia are doing for fremantle which are in gitorious?	00:48
DrGrov	Would love to see a screenshot	00:48
alterego	I mean t Harmattan ...	00:48
luke-jr	alterego: unlikely, as there's no platform to backport to	00:48
luke-jr	oh	00:48
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BCMM	talking of themes, my phone seems to have cached an image of app manager using a previous theme, and shows it for a few seconds when i start app manager	00:49
alterego	luke-jr: actually, I just saw "MeeGo Image Editor" and thought, ooo, maybe I can back port it. But it looks like an example program which may not be of any use...	00:49
BCMM	how do i make it forget that?	00:49
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dima202	is there a finished pipboy theme?	00:50
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alterego	I don't get it, why is libsharing closed source, at leasat, I can't find the source for it ...	00:52
SpeedEvil	http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/06/28/1932245/Porn-Industry-Ready-To-Drop-Flash Woo!	00:53
SpeedEvil	Historically, they've always been the techincal leader in the internet.	00:53
SpeedEvil	:)	00:53
alterego	Heh	00:53
alterego	That and this poises them for iPhone domination ..	00:53
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: though in case of a GSM station run on a official GSM band you can be sure the owners of that band will complain after a short while, as they constantly check their network for each aspect of service quality, incl interferences by unauthorized transmitters	00:54
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: 900 MHz is free-for-all in the US	00:54
BCMM	alterego: yeah, they'd be fools to ignore the iphone: people who will unquestioningly pay money for stuff, and probably have a lot of free time	00:54
luke-jr	but FCC still regulates a max on power used	00:54
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: anyway no attorney worldwide is paying patrols to find GSM pirates or any othe pirate/non-conforming TX	00:54
DocScrutinizer	on a regular base	00:55
BCMM	anyone know what the UK law is on FM microbroadcasting?	00:55
alterego	BCMM: permissable	00:55
BCMM	i know; i meant power limits and so on	00:56
alterego	There are power limitations	00:56
flailingmonkey	luke-jr: you might be right, but I look forward to your scenario of how fm-boost will disrupt 911 service for a major city :)	00:56
alterego	Oh, I don't knkow off hand tbh	00:56
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: then you're free to run a gsm station on 900MHz according to the T&C for this "free for all" which probably means you have to reduce bandwidth, TX-power and whatnot	00:56
luke-jr	flailingmonkey: I was suggesting pirate GSM service	00:56
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: right, but if nobody enforces the TX-power rules...	00:56
BCMM	alterego: well, i figured there were limits, since we have large-scale fm broadcasting too	00:56
BCMM	i just wondered what they were	00:56
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flailingmonkey	sure, but our origin was someone saying that using fm-boost would land you in jail	00:57
crashanddie	BCMM: 50 nanoWatts, IIRC	00:57
DocScrutinizer	then nobody is doing a hobby job to find and sue you, most probably	00:57
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: or 15	00:57
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil knows better	00:58
* DocScrutinizer waves		00:59
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BCMM	DocScrutinizer: please don't wave at me too...	01:03
jacekowski	damn you steve jobs	01:04
jacekowski	and you drm	01:04
jacekowski	and your not working itunes store	01:04
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dima202	has anyone gotten deluge client working on n900?	01:10
blizzow	Does anyone here have problems with fmms taking over the internet connection and not switching back to their regular provider? (even in polite mode)	01:11
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DocScrutinizer51	who wrote simple brightness?	01:13
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rafaelbrandao	I'm trying to install a source code on my n810 but here says "./configure: Permission denied" after using "sudo gainroot". Am I missing something?	01:13
luke-jr	rafaelbrandao: yes	01:13
lcuk	DocScrutinizer51, qwerty	01:14
DocScrutinizer51	aah	01:14
luke-jr	rafaelbrandao: it is always bad practice to "install a source code" as you describe	01:14
DocScrutinizer51	tnx	01:14
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rafaelbrandao	luke-jr, but in this case I don't have any option.	01:14
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rafaelbrandao	luke-jr, so is there a way I can get it done?	01:15
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luke-jr	rafaelbrandao: you can't make a package why?	01:16
rafaelbrandao	luke-jr, actually I've never tried that. so this might be the way to get it done, right? I'll try.	01:18
luke-jr	rafaelbrandao: as to your actual problem, you can't do it under MyDocs	01:21
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rafaelbrandao	I was trying it inside internal memory card, then I've moved to /home/user/ folder, but both didn't work.	01:22
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luke-jr	you need to stay on /home/user only	01:25
luke-jr	well	01:25
luke-jr	really you need to make a package or such	01:25
luke-jr	but IF you wanted to do it the broken way that will mess up your system, you'd need to stick to /home/user	01:25
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rafaelbrandao	Hm, I was doing fine with ./configure on scratchbox but now I need it on my n810. I'm trying to figure out how to make a package of it.	01:30
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rafaelbrandao	Oh, no. It didn't work: "Source file is a bz2 but bzip2 or gzip not available at /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/dh_make"	01:41
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cehteh	http://www.christeck.de/wp/products/routino-frontend/ .. anyone wants to package that?	01:56
SpeedEvil	Why do I know that name...	01:56
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cehteh	what name?	01:57
SpeedEvil	Andrew Bishop	01:57
cehteh	heh dunno :)	01:57
SpeedEvil	ah	01:57
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:N900_Hardware	01:57
SpeedEvil	err - no	01:57
SpeedEvil	http://www.gedanken.demon.co.uk/wwwoffle/	01:58
SpeedEvil	A useful offline/online web-proxy	01:58
cehteh	christoph (the blogger/frontend programmer) asked me today about packaging it, he is not on irc, i just proxy his question	01:58
cehteh	i think that has some potential, albeit just being a working hack for now	01:58
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opdf2	anyone with froyo on n900?	02:45
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pigeon	weird, i'm surprised pingus isn't in the repo... or no one has been maintaining the maemo port	03:08
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pupnik_	pigeon: some memory collectin problems - i can't release it	03:11
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pigeon	pupnik_: oh!	03:15
pupnik_	someone else can try	03:15
pigeon	pupnik_: do tell, what do you mean by memory collecting?	03:15
pupnik_	i'm seeing hiccups in game pay and iirc that is garbage collection	03:16
pupnik_	play	03:16
pigeon	what is pingus written in? it does gc itself?	03:16
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pigeon	ah, c++? seeing it needs libboost	03:18
pupnik_	needs a bit of repositioning of elements for 800x480 also	03:20
pigeon	right	03:21
* b-man yawns		03:24
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* DocScrutinizer shoots at b-man with a hyper-accelerated-coffeine gun		03:28
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b-man	lol	03:39
b-man	~nuke DocScrutinizer	03:39
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at DocScrutinizer ... B☢☢M!		03:39
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* b-man is bored		03:45
b-man	i never really got around to showing you guys this but:	03:45
b-man	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2fJB1VMaOY	03:45
b-man	^ EF4 recorded by a traffic camera tornado that passed about 6 miles north of my house a few weeks back	03:45
b-man	*EF4 tornado	03:45
* DocScrutinizer51 runs a portscan and pentest against b-man		03:45
b-man	LOL	03:46
asj	and people wonder why I left indiana	03:46
b-man	it's crazy though	03:46
DocScrutinizer51	to cure the boredom of your life	03:46
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asj	well something exciting has to happen....	03:46
b-man	http://www.draconidigital.com/tornado.htm < more pictures/footage	03:48
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b-man	brb	03:48
keemo	Hi	03:48
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keemo	Kifkom?	03:48
DocScrutinizer51	hkiag.pqagb.aeg??	03:49
DocScrutinizer51	jhdfhyr JFJRJRE!!!!	03:50
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Termana	yello	04:08
asj	orange	04:08
b-man	apple	04:08
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b-man	xDDDD	04:09
Termana	b-man, I was hoping you were here :P	04:09
Termana	I have a couple of things to ask	04:09
Termana	b-man, do you still have this image: http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/mer/screenshots/screenshot01.png	04:10
b-man	i might	04:10
b-man	1 sec	04:10
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b-man	i can't seem to find it :S	04:12
Termana	b-man, no problem :P Whenever you find yourself bored as hell with nothing to do, can I get you to look at something for me? *BSD (with x86 emulation) on the n900? (I don't have an n900 and the FreeBSD image crashes on my n810)	04:13
b-man	sure :)	04:13
Termana	thanks :)	04:13
b-man	although i've tried BSD on my N800 without luck :(	04:13
b-man	but	04:14
b-man	since the N900 has 2.1x the power, it may work ;)	04:14
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Termana	I had a small (but useless) NetBSD image running under Bochs on my n810. But trying to boot the freebsd image A) Took forever and B) Eventually made Bochs quit with an error	04:15
b-man	perhaps qemu is more suitable :)	04:16
Termana	mmm, I could try. Is it available under Ubuntu's 9.04 ARM repo? (Mer)	04:16
b-man	it should be	04:16
b-man	however if i have to, i'll just compile an optimized version for maemo ;)	04:17
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b-man	i've already tested qemu-system-arm along with a minimal ulibc linux system with a DirectFB interface and it performed quite well	04:20
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b-man	way better than what my N800 did under the same test :)	04:21
b-man	g2g - going to a coffee shop :P	04:22
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DocScrutinizer51	I really think it's silly to run a FOSS OS under a cpu emulator	04:44
DocScrutinizer51	rather use a generic version and make it run natively	04:44
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Termana	DocScrutinizer51, You would need to implement the armv7 code, the OMAP code, the board specific code, the peripheral code. The *BSD trees have none of this AFAIK	04:49
DocScrutinizer51	errr	04:56
DocScrutinizer51	target=armel; chroot mynativeimg	04:57
Termana	DocScrutinizer51, ? You can't chroot into a *BSD image from Linux... unless I've been missing out on something	04:58
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DocScrutinizer51	whateveryou do to make it run, emulating a x86 is idiotic	04:59
luke-jr	he was emulating an ARM	04:59
luke-jr	neither kqemu nor KVM support ARM	04:59
luke-jr	also, what do you think x86 CPUs do?	05:00
luke-jr	they emulate x86	05:00
luke-jr	:p	05:00
* luke-jr thinks Intel could feasably kill AMD off by opening the RISC "x86" instruction set(s)		05:01
Termana	luke-jr, actually I was emulating x86 with Bochs. It would be fair to say I should use qemu-system-arm if I'm using qemu.	05:01
luke-jr	[20:20:46] <b-man> i've already tested qemu-system-arm along with a minimal ulibc linux system with a DirectFB interface and it performed quite well	05:01
luke-jr	anyhow, it should be possible to run BSD chroot on Linux	05:01
luke-jr	but nfc if anyone's done it	05:01
luke-jr	proof of concept: LUK supports two independent syscall tables-- the normal Linux syscalls, and the NT syscalls	05:02
luke-jr	therefore executing binaries for either platform as equals	05:02
Termana	To be honest, I don't see much point in chroot into a BSD image from Linux. Your still running on Linux - wheres the joy in that, you may as well just use a normal linux userland	05:02
luke-jr	true	05:03
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Termana	and thats the reasons why I think crashanddie is a great guy	05:05
Termana	Oh hey crashanddie!	05:05
Termana	:P	05:05
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DocScrutinizer51	seems someone posted a psychotrop mantra to the channel	05:15
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rafaelbrandao	packaging is harder than it seens. :(	05:20
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DocScrutinizer	If pigs eat sand, they'd probably shit next generation SoCs	05:35
* raster starts pig farming		05:35
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* DocScrutinizer starts selling perfumes		05:36
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DocScrutinizer	honestly - x86-BSD in bochs on a ARM-linux, how lame is that?	05:37
raster	thats lame	05:38
raster	every time someone goes "oh woot heres windows xp on my phone" ... i sigh	05:38
raster	lame	05:38
DocScrutinizer	even virtualbox to run a linux on a linux is rather lame, when you think of doing that on a 500MHz ARM with 256MB of RAM	05:40
doc\|home	is there a way to have the n900 emulate voicemail? i.e. instead of picking up the phone automatically records the message	05:41
DocScrutinizer	there are projects tackling that afaik	05:41
SpeedEvil	In principle, yes, the hardware can do that.	05:41
DocScrutinizer	it's feasible	05:41
SpeedEvil	In practice, I don't think anyone has released anything.	05:41
doc\|home	ok, thanks for the reply	05:41
DocScrutinizer	there's call recorder though	05:42
DocScrutinizer	which is basically doing all you need	05:42
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DocScrutinizer	think the package is called diferently, but it's a call recorder	05:42
doc\|home	DocScrutinizer: yeah, just need it to automate the pickup and message play though :/	05:42
DocScrutinizer	so what?	05:43
DocScrutinizer	that's prolly the easy part	05:43
DocScrutinizer	compared to messing around with friggin PA	05:43
doc\|home	PA?	05:43
DocScrutinizer	pulse audio BS	05:43
doc\|home	I don't have any time whatsoever to put into it :/	05:44
doc\|home	I barely have time to sleep these days	05:44
DocScrutinizer	doc\|home: you'll need to find the time to browse thru the garage projects. Guess you'll find something interesting	05:45
doc\|home	thanks	05:45
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flailingmonkey	emulating an x86 for the purpose of running an OS is a terrible idea for a phone	05:46
DocScrutinizer	lol, yeah	05:46
flailingmonkey	especially when you can run it somewhere else and vnc	05:46
DocScrutinizer	or just run it natively	05:46
DocScrutinizer	gnutoo, debian, meego... afaik all those run natively on N900. Don't see why BSD can't	05:47
flailingmonkey	it could, but it would be more work	05:48
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* DocScrutinizer yawns, bored		05:48
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DocScrutinizer	it would be less work... for the cpu :-P	05:49
flailingmonkey	heh, indeed	05:49
DocScrutinizer	so much less that it even might make sense - as opposed to running x86 BSD in bochs	05:50
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asj	netbsd is centered around portability....why not just do that?	05:50
DocScrutinizer	asj: I'm missing the point in discussion for quite some hours now. So don't ask me	05:51
* DocScrutinizer yawns again, and decides it's time for breakfast at bakery		05:51
asj	DocScrutinizer: since when did irc need a point? :)	05:51
Termana	Excuse me if I may, since your been shunning what I tried for the last half an hour.	05:52
Termana	you've*	05:52
Termana	But, I don't intend to run this all the time. Its called experimenting.	05:52
flailingmonkey	for those interested in netbsd on N900: http://www.netbsd.org/docs/kernel/porting_netbsd_arm-soc.html	05:52
Termana	And if you weren't such a faggot, you would understand that. No wonder this community is failing.	05:53
asj	flailingmonkey: lol 404	05:53
flailingmonkey	boo	05:53
flailingmonkey	for those interested in netbsd on N900: http://www.netbsd.org/docs/kernel/porting_netbsd_arm_soc.html	05:53
doc\|home	hmm, is Termana how people spell "dick" these days?	05:53
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: BOCHS to run Linux on N810 might have a real-world use	06:00
luke-jr	since N810 is memory constrained, one might have an application that demands 196 MB RAM...	06:00
DocScrutinizer	mhm	06:00
luke-jr	and since Linux has not yet been fully ported to N810, BOCHS would provide a common platform to run it	06:00
luke-jr	therefore enabling use of ramzswap	06:00
luke-jr	to compress memory	06:01
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luke-jr	:)	06:01
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: I emulated a cray on my N810 last weekend	06:01
pyther	has anyone figured out how to listen to iheartradio no the n900?	06:02
DocScrutinizer	heard somebody else used a nfs-mounted swap of 96GB and emulated google's cloud computing	06:02
DocScrutinizer	</sarcasm>	06:02
* DocScrutinizer off for breakfast		06:03
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: you can't even have 4 GB swap on a 32-bit platform	06:03
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: you bet I can	06:04
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: no!	06:05
DocScrutinizer	I had on my P-II system ~2000, priority of the swap partitions 42, 41, 40 for the 3 HDD	06:05
DocScrutinizer	s/200/y2k	06:06
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: (man 8 mkswap ->)	06:12
DocScrutinizer	The maximum useful size of a swap area depends on the architecture and the kernel version. It is roughly 2GiB on	06:13
DocScrutinizer	i386, PPC, m68k, ARM, 1GiB on sparc, 512MiB on mips, 128GiB on alpha and 3TiB on sparc64. For kernels after 2.3.3	06:13
DocScrutinizer	there is no such limitation.	06:13
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: there's no limitations on the number of swap areas used concurrently though (at least none I know of)	06:14
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DocScrutinizer	(to be precise and non-abiguous I don't know of limitations of the total size of concurrently used swap areas - anyway since 2.3.3 it seems any worries about swap area size are completely moot)	06:25
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: 32-bit platforms by definition cannot address more than 4 GB memory	06:27
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: per definition a single app can not address >4GB of virtual mem on a 32GB kernel	06:28
DocScrutinizer	not related to memory allocation LUT structure	06:29
flailingmonkey	take it to #linux or #somewhereelse :p, g'night	06:30
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DocScrutinizer	even a 32bit system might implement a 64bit (or whatever size) mmu subsystem	06:30
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DocScrutinizer	s/32gb/32bit	06:34
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D-Iivili	good morning... zzz...	08:26
D-Iivili	Everyone else are still sleeping? I need more coffee...	08:28
fragment	mmm coffee	08:29
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D-Iivili	Yeah.. my third cup so far. And I have been awake like half an hour...	08:30
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D-Iivili	Time to go to work >	08:32
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DocScrutinizer51	COFFEE	08:39
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RST38h	DEADBEEF	08:39
DocScrutinizer51	damn, thought I was about to go to sleep	08:39
RST38h	You are asleep.	08:39
DocScrutinizer51	you are a doghnut!!! YOU ARE A DOUGHNUT!	08:40
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RST38h	Yea, I am a doughnut. And I am going to swallow you.	08:41
DocScrutinizer51	listen to hypnotoad	08:41
RST38h	PREPARE TO BE DEVOURED BY A DOUGHNUT, YOU PUNY HUMAN	08:41
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Corsac	hmhm, doughnuts	08:44
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DocScrutinizer	IRC will kill me	08:49
doc\|home	you're doing it wrong	08:52
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ZogG	are you taliking to yourself	08:52
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D-Iivil	@ work	08:54
DocScrutinizer	http://r33b.net/	08:54
D-Iivil	DocScrutinizer: you seriously need to go and see a doctor :-D	08:55
LiraNuna_	hey guys, I got a "2500mAh" battery for N900	08:55
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LiraNuna_	how do I check the actual value?	08:55
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D-Iivil	LiraNuna_: I bought also a "1950mAh" which could last two hours with full charge...	08:55
LiraNuna_	it was 10$, I didn't REALLY expect it to be as such	08:56
D-Iivil	Mine was too :-P	08:56
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LiraNuna_	will BatteryGraph show me real mAh?	08:56
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DocScrutinizer	charge completely, then take a 10Ohm,2W resistor and a voltmeter, and short the battery with resistor. Stop time until voltage drops to 3.0V	08:56
D-Iivil	LiraNuna_: No it will not.	08:56
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LiraNuna_	DocScrutinizer, I got none of that	08:57
luke-jr	[sgx_misr] is locking up my N900 again :x	08:57
D-Iivil	DocScrutinizer: intresting, how do you count the mAh from that?	08:57
DocScrutinizer	then you're basically out of luck for getting accurate capacity	08:57
LiraNuna_	DocScrutinizer, then, estimate?	08:57
D-Iivil	LiraNuna_: Charge it up and stick it in your N900. Then use the phone as you normally do and see how long it will last and then compare it to the original.	08:58
D-Iivil	For rough estimate..	08:58
LiraNuna_	but thing is	08:58
DocScrutinizer	D-Iivil: rather simple: assume battery is ~3.7V avrg, then there will be 370mA flowing over the resistor, this makes 370mAh/h	08:58
ZogG	DocScrutinizer put the fingers in the electril plug	08:58
LiraNuna_	same battery - and my N900 will discharge one day in an abnormal rate	08:58
D-Iivil	DocScrutinizer: Aaah, ofcourse. My brains aren't working yet.	08:59
D-Iivil	ZogG: I once did that when I was like five years old.	08:59
ZogG	D-Iivil did you like it?	08:59
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Corsac	LiraNuna_: one day is not that abnormal	08:59
D-Iivil	ZogG: Though I didn't directly stick my fingers, I had two wires I used :-D	08:59
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LiraNuna_	Corsac, "one day" was not a time frame	09:00
ZogG	D-Iivil, you always was a clever boy	09:00
Corsac	ho, sorry	09:00
LiraNuna_	some days the battery lasts for 6 hours, others I can get 11 hours	09:00
DocScrutinizer	LiraNuna_: you could use a incandecent bulb of a torch or bike lamp	09:00
D-Iivil	All I remember was that big "flames" came out from the wall socket and I was scared like hell :D	09:00
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DocScrutinizer	LiraNuna_: that depends how much is consumed by WLAN & 3G, and of course by high load on CPU	09:01
DocScrutinizer	and by duration of backlight on	09:01
LiraNuna_	DocScrutinizer, almost the same values, I can give you batterygraph graphs	09:01
LiraNuna_	I'm speaking about 10% loss in 40 minutes when the phone is in my pocket	09:02
DocScrutinizer	batterygraph is nonsense (sorry), as it tells you about nothing and adds to cpu load	09:02
LiraNuna_	I see	09:03
* LiraNuna_ goes back to coding a google maps client for N900		09:03
ZogG	LiraNuna_ any beta preview or only started?	09:03
LiraNuna_	more like alpha	09:04
LiraNuna_	I want to get it to a state where I check if pure 2D accel is better than 3D	09:04
DocScrutinizer	just yesterday I heard batgraph or bateye is causing 60 IRQ/s	09:04
LiraNuna_	I've noticed Mapparo uses simple blitbit for drawing	09:04
LiraNuna_	and it's slow	09:04
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LiraNuna_	I'm wondering how noticable it will be using OGL ES	09:05
D-Iivil	Oookay.. time to work now. They are changing the tax percentage here in finland tomorrow and I need to do some heavy database calculation to get all our webshops to use the correct tax. Plaah.	09:06
TigerTael	DocScrutinizer, I concur.	09:06
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DocScrutinizer	it's kinda like using a 2kW flood lamp to illumiate the electric meter of your mains installation, to video the power your frige is using	09:09
LiraNuna_	^ lol	09:09
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defragger	tebay.de	09:32
defragger	ups wrong window, sorry	09:32
D-Iivil	Argh... I would like to KILL our former IT-guy.	09:32
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luke-jr	D-Iivil: that'll land you in jail for sure	09:33
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D-Iivil	luke-jr: I think that guy who hard codes stuff into formulas should be killed without penalties.	09:34
ham5	isent being killed... the penality?	09:35
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D-Iivil	Why on earth he didn't use variables that ALREADY EXISTED! Instead that dumb ass wrote the values directly into the source.	09:36
D-Iivil	ham5: I mean penalty for the one that kills the guy.	09:36
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D-Iivil	And now I have like ~100 php files to dig through and manually seek through the formulas and transform all wrong values into variables. Search & replace won't do the work here since the same number is used in other places too and those should not be changed. Fuck fuck fuckedi fuck.	09:38
* D-Iivil gets more coffee		09:38
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DocScrutinizer	D-Iivil: time to fire the guy who hired that crack	09:42
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D-Iivil	DocScrutinizer: well.. it's kind a hard to do since it was the manager who did the hiring. And probably hired me since the guy didn't know what he was doing.	09:43
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_0x47	Morning guys! I really need libsdl-mixer1.2 to be updated. Who could help me? X-Fade seems to be gone for some reason... :/	09:54
D-Iivil	Argharghargh. Time for break now...	09:57
D-Iivil	Btw, can someone tell me what should a put on .desktop -file to run a shell script without opening the terminal window?	09:58
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jacekowski	morning	10:09
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aboyer	is it possible to configure scratchbox with two armel targets such that one compiles for pr1.1.1 and the other for 1.2? if so, any information on how to do that?	10:10
DocScrutinizer51	D-Iivil: possibly '/bin/sh -c /path/to/yoscript 1>/dev/null 2>&1'	10:12
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jacekowski	there is one thing that's worrying me	10:14
jacekowski	well 2 things	10:14
jacekowski	maybe just one	10:14
jacekowski	that i'm really rude and insulting to other people	10:14
jacekowski	and nobody seems to have problem with it	10:15
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ZogG	jacekowski, it's okay, me too, but people say i'm not like this and i'm kindhearted, just deep inside - they dont realize i'm not =)	10:16
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* DocScrutinizer51 cackles and :-x		10:18
D-Iivil	DocScrutinizer51: seems to work just putting "sudo myscript" into Exec -field	10:18
DocScrutinizer51	or that :)	10:18
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_0x47	D-Iivil: terminal=false	10:22
_0x47	with capital T	10:23
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jacekowski	oO	10:28
jacekowski	.text:00019C78 AND R3, R3, #0x70	10:28
jacekowski	.text:00019C7C CMP R3, #0x30 ; '0'	10:28
jacekowski	.text:00019C80 BLS loc_19C20 ; jumptable 00019BCC cases 0,1,9,13	10:28
jacekowski	0x70 == 0b1110000	10:28
jacekowski	hmmm	10:28
jacekowski	nvm	10:28
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DocScrutinizer51	hmm, would need 30min ARM asm crashcourse to digest that	10:32
jacekowski	AND - binary and	10:33
jacekowski	CMP - compare	10:33
jacekowski	BLS - branch if lower than	10:33
jacekowski	hmm	10:33
DocScrutinizer51	what's a cmp with 3 args?	10:33
jacekowski	thing is that code is responsible for terminating charging	10:33
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jacekowski	that's after ;	10:33
jacekowski	; - comment	10:33
DocScrutinizer51	aah	10:34
RST38h	HCF - halt and catch fire	10:34
DocScrutinizer51	Nokia 12 here	10:34
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DocScrutinizer51	RST38h: LOL	10:35
jacekowski	thing is that it seems to set up charge termination to quite low value	10:36
jacekowski	but it's still there	10:36
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dotblank	hmm I'm getting segfaults but I can't seem to disassemble output from gdb	10:43
dotblank	this is with qt Creater	10:43
dotblank	would love to troubleshoot this	10:43
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wazd	Stskeeps: around? :)	10:49
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tristan	is uh. anyone here capable of looking atmy battery graph screenshot and telling me if something is catastrophically wrong.	11:01
Scelt	guess you're having same problem than me	11:01
Scelt	the graph goes like \	11:01
Scelt	haven't yet solved why it' so	11:02
tristan	yeaah	11:02
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tristan	3/3.5g is like	11:02
MohammadAG51	mine's like /(some 7 hour use)\	11:02
tristan	a percentage a minute.	11:02
tristan	like really really. my 40 minute commute home takes about half the battery	11:03
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tristan	just to sit o msn	11:03
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asj	something wrong with msn?	11:03
MohammadAG51	yeah, it exists	11:03
Scelt	mine did go down rapidly as I was sleeping	11:03
Scelt	so I didn't do anything but had alarm waiting	11:03
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tristan	well, its cpu usage isnt through the roof or anything.	11:05
tristan	ill screenshot.	11:05
Scelt	I had battery issues with fm widgets before. they have a bad habbit of teasing fm transmitter just to poll if it's on or not. I removed the widgets and everything when fine but now, yesterday it satsrted again	11:05
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asj	tristan: if it's discharging in ~90mins the phone will be warm	11:06
RST38h	One of those widgets probably infected another widget in your device	11:06
RST38h	so that infected widget is also polling the fm transmitter now	11:06
Scelt	RST38h: as I said it was fine for weeks	11:06
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RST38h	incubation period.	11:06
MohammadAG51	then the facebook widget will stand up and say I am Legend on all 3 rows	11:06
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tristan	http://omploader.org/vNHM0dA/battery.png	11:07
DocScrutinizer51	hmm interesting	11:08
tristan	i dont notice it being especially warm. ill pay muich closer attention tommorow to heat.	11:08
tristan	you can see when my lunch breaks are :/	11:08
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tristan	but the usage for the trip home is just extreme.	11:08
asj	well CPU load is running about 40% for an hour	11:08
Scelt	tristan: when that started for you?	11:08
tristan	since i got the phone. its only a few days old.	11:08
Scelt	oh, okay	11:08
DocScrutinizer51	when he installed batgraph :-P	11:09
Scelt	do you use devel?	11:09
tristan	it seems pidgin might be horribly optimized.	11:09
tristan	i have the repository enabled, yes.	11:09
asj	pidgin isn't optomized...	11:09
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Scelt	I'm guessing that some new devel update did something awful to my phone	11:09
* DocScrutinizer51 sighs		11:09
tristan	hmm. so is that sort of load from pidgin fairly normal.	11:09
asj	tristan: what are you doing that's pushed the cpu load up?	11:10
tristan	tonight i had pidgin open talking to one person on msn. and checked facebook once.	11:10
tristan	over a 3g data connection	11:10
Scelt	so my phone did use 70 % of battery in 3 hours, when I was sleeping	11:11
BCMM	Scelt: were you on eg?	11:11
BCMM	3g	11:11
asj	tristan: so, for 1 hour your had the phone open, were browsing fb and chatting on msn? turn the screen brightness down	11:11
tristan	its on the middle setting.	11:11
Scelt	BCMM: ye, as I've been for months now	11:11
tristan	but may have been adjusting itself, im unsure how the sensor works.	11:12
BCMM	Scelt: i mean, were you using 3g data?	11:12
Scelt	BCMM: naah, internet connection was down	11:12
tristan	actually it was set on two bars. brightness. with the simple ap.	11:12
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tristan	there must be someting else, the only widget i have is conversations.	11:12
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asj	tristan: run top next time and see what's generating all the cpu load	11:12
DocScrutinizer51	Scelt: how that?	11:12
tristan	check.	11:13
Scelt	and I only have 3 widgets: calendar, foreca and nameday	11:13
BCMM	does brightness change if you don't have simple brightness installed?	11:13
Scelt	DocScrutinizer51: wat?	11:13
BCMM	Scelt: got powertop?	11:13
asj	BCMM: yes, it always uses the ambient light sensor	11:13
BCMM	asj: does it still do that with simple brightness installed?	11:14
BCMM	cause i've noticed it blinding me in dark rooms	11:14
asj	BCMM: just cranks down the "gain"	11:14
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tristan	i will replicate it momentarily.	11:14
Scelt	BCMM: installing	11:14
BCMM	actually, the other day i saw it blind somebody who didn't seem geeky enough to have installed simple brightness	11:14
asj	BCMM: put your thumb over the sensor for 30seconds and you should see it get dimmer	11:15
DocScrutinizer51	BCMM: simple brightness disables ALS on 5bars setting	11:15
BCMM	(the hell was a non-geek doing with an n900?)	11:15
DocScrutinizer51	prolly a bug	11:15
BCMM	DocScrutinizer51: ah, that explains it	11:15
asj	heh, I never run 5 bars	11:15
BCMM	asj: ah, 30 seconds explains the other thing	11:15
tristan	5 bars is pretty damn abrasive.	11:15
BCMM	it's weird, but in daylight, 5 bars seems "sharper" to me	11:15
asj	what';s a geek doing out in sunlight?	11:16
BCMM	asj: cycling :)	11:16
tristan	im still uh, seeing a lot of duplicate processes too.	11:16
tristan	that i would contend are closed.	11:16
Scelt	BCMM: gives segmentation fault	11:16
BCMM	Scelt: powertop does?	11:17
Jaffa	Morning, all	11:17
DocScrutinizer51	mo Jaffa	11:17
Scelt	BCMM: ye	11:17
MohammadAG51	morning Jaffa	11:17
BCMM	Scelt: that's odd	11:18
Scelt	BCMM: but gives out some info before seg fault	11:18
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tristan	http://omploader.org/vNHM0dQ/ps.x.txt	11:18
tristan	does this look odd	11:18
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: can I bother you with one guestion again? :-D	11:18
Scelt	BCMM: C1 85,4 % 10,4ms 550 MHz 0.0%	11:18
tristan	like, two address books, two image viewers. two xterms (when there is one)	11:18
MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, lol you're not bothering me by asking questions	11:19
MohammadAG51	crashanddie, ping?	11:19
crashanddie	pong	11:19
Scelt	btw, I have see from ps that I have fmrx-enabled running all the time. is that okay?	11:19
asj	tristan: look at the pids, they are all children, etc.	11:19
MohammadAG51	crashanddie, updated to 3.40?	11:19
tristan	but. i dont see why they are open in the first place	11:19
tristan	going to task manager, theres not a thing open.	11:19
crashanddie	MohammadAG51: wait, wut? Context?	11:20
tristan	perhaps this is the conversation widgets work.	11:20
BCMM	why isn't omploader.org in the first page of search results for omploader.org?	11:20
BCMM	(on google)	11:20
MohammadAG51	crashanddie, ps3	11:20
crashanddie	MohammadAG51: dunno, maybe, not sure	11:20
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: hah, okay :-P Do you know about .desktop -files? I want to run that shell script of mine without opening the xterm -window. Now I have it like this: Exec=sudo myscript, Terminal=false	11:20
crashanddie	why?	11:20
MohammadAG51	it was released today	11:20
crashanddie	ah, then no	11:20
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: but it still opens the xTerm window when tapping the shortcut.	11:20
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MohammadAG51	hmm	11:21
D-Iivil	What does StartupNotify -field do?	11:21
MohammadAG51	not sure tbh	11:21
BCMM	Scelt: did you say you had the FM transmitter on all that time?	11:21
mirf	ai ai ai am I blind or is there really no search function on the appinstaller ?	11:21
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D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: okay, well, had to ask :)	11:22
Duckboot	mirf: All apps - start typing	11:22
BCMM	mirf: select your category (or all) then start typing	11:22
MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, i'm sure someone else here knows :)	11:22
BCMM	it did get less obvious in 1.2	11:22
BCMM	but also easier and faster	11:22
BCMM	the thing i miss is listing apps by size	11:22
BCMM	(other than installed apps)	11:22
mirf	sweet thank you	11:22
BCMM	since it is a consideration for me when there are multiple apps that do the same thing	11:23
tristan	blah. i just dont know	11:23
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: I already had this proposial, but after putting it this way, the shortcut won't do anything: '/bin/sh -c /path/to/yoscript 1>/dev/null 2>&1'	11:23
mirf	I thought there had to be a search	11:23
tristan	even if i trip my desktop of wigets theres so many things open in ps x.	11:23
BCMM	and since it is a nice way to make the desktop category not full of themes	11:23
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BCMM	tristan: well, that's *nix for you really	11:23
mirf	heh yeah there should be a theme category	11:23
BCMM	tristan: a lot of small programs	11:23
MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, put it into a script and run that instead?	11:23
Scelt	BCMM: fm transmitter not on but ps has /usr/libexec/n900-fmrx-enabler --nodaemon	11:23
tristan	but why is calendar running without being run.	11:23
MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, see what I did with xarchiver	11:24
BCMM	Scelt: i don't know what that does	11:24
tristan	and image viewer. i havent even opened it.	11:24
tristan	my unix boxes dont do this:p	11:24
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: umm... like doing another script which will launch the actual script?	11:24
BCMM	tristan: oh, those	11:24
Scelt	BCMM: me either	11:24
MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, yeah	11:24
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BCMM	tristan: yeah, i guess it keeps a bunch of the built-in stuff loaded in memory	11:24
BCMM	i doubt they use much CPU till they are activated though	11:24
tristan	well thats just it, are they in the RAM or actually running	11:24
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: ookay, I will download the source of xarchiver and see how you did it.	11:25
tristan	mmm.	11:25
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BCMM	it's so it can do tricks like "open lens cover, camera starts in no seconds flat"	11:25
tristan	mmm.	11:25
tristan	i guess thats a non issue then	11:25
MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, or download the package itself, the script's in /usr/sbin/xarchiver	11:25
luke-jr	BCMM: that's funny, pretty sure mine takes a number of seconds...	11:25
luke-jr	which is nowhere near as annoying as the phone-call thing taking 5 seconds at least to change from landscape to portrait...	11:25
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: will do that	11:26
asj	tristan: the next time you are commuting, have fb open and are doing msn via pidgin, THEN run top and see what's using cpu time	11:26
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tristan	i will connect to them now.	11:26
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luke-jr	lens open to camera visible = ~6 seconds	11:27
Scelt	BCMM: "sh: status: not found" says powertop	11:27
mirf	luke-jr: ew	11:28
BCMM	luke-jr: for me, somewhere between 0 and 6	11:28
mirf	there must be a way to speed that up	11:28
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D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: see no xarchiver under /usr/bin	11:28
Scelt	why there's no packages.maemo.org like in ubuntu or debian. would help	11:28
BCMM	Scelt: i'm afraid i haven't use powertop since my laptop died last year; probably ask somebody else	11:28
BCMM	^used	11:28
MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, /usr/sbin/runxarchiver	11:28
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Scelt	BCMM: hugs and kisses anyhow	11:28
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tristan	wow. browser sitting at about 60% useage.	11:30
tristan	going down to 30ish.	11:30
tristan	id say thats the flash talking eh.	11:31
Scelt	I have flash block	11:31
Scelt	that's nice	11:31
mirf	yar flash block ftw	11:31
tristan	well its settled down to 1% just idling in the background	11:31
mirf	and ad block	11:31
tristan	pidgin oscillates up to around 30% then back to under 5.	11:31
mirf	cock block	11:31
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D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: hmm.. I don't get the point. You have that runxarchiver under the /usr/sbin and it includes one line (well two) which does something. Do you have a .desktop -file included also in the package?	11:32
fx5	hi	11:32
MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, of course, /usr/share/applications/hildon	11:32
MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, but as you can see, it's a script that doesn't open xterm	11:32
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: can't find xarchiver there. Is it some other name?	11:32
MohammadAG51	nope, i'm sure it's there	11:33
tristan	hmm yes. browser can comfortably use 60% while loading facecbook.	11:33
jacekowski	/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger - that's indicating if dedicated charger is connected?	11:33
MohammadAG51	xarchiver.desktop	11:33
fx5	Is it possible to put a .deb on a web-server so that microb opens it with the app-manager?	11:34
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MohammadAG51	just put it on the server?	11:34
Scelt	why browserd "RTComMessagingServer" is using 9,6 % of ram all the time?	11:34
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: hmm.. still can't see it. Allthough I see the shortcut on my desktop though.	11:34
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fx5	Mohamed: microb only allows me to save it	11:35
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: found it from the source package.	11:35
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: will try that trick :)	11:35
fx5	Mohammad.. sorry	11:35
fx5	tried mime-type application/x-debian-package	11:36
tristan	couldnt you just	11:37
tristan	wget lele.deb;dpkg -i lele.deb	11:37
tristan	or is the gui essential.	11:37
MohammadAG51	isn't it application/x-deb?	11:37
MohammadAG51	sec i'll check	11:37
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eitama_	Hey guys	11:37
eitama_	MohammadAG51, got 2 min?	11:37
fx5	yes, the strange thing is: my sever says: "application/x-debian-package" but microb says "application/x-deb"	11:38
MohammadAG51	fx5, http://mohammadag.ucoz.com/powertop_1.0_armel.deb	11:38
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fx5	Mohammad: Doesn't work for me. Only option i see is "Save on device"	11:39
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fx5	I saw a few sites (mozilla, joikuspot) adding an apt-repository through microb, does anyone know how this works?	11:42
MohammadAG51	.install files, lots of examples	11:42
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fx5	thanks, will try to find more information on this	11:44
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D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: thanks, it still open a "window" but now the user won't see all the unnecessary stuff that's being run in terminal window :)	11:47
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: And by "window" I mean that top menu is popping up with name of my desktop -file and loading indicator is rolling there.	11:48
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: But it's okay now :)	11:48
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MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, umm, sec	11:49
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MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, add X-App-Loading-Image=none to the end	11:49
D-Iivil	Will try that :)	11:49
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D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: That did the trick! Thanks again (like I said yesterday, this is starting to be a daily habit) :-D	11:50
MohammadAG51	:D np	11:50
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DocScrutinizer51	hmm, this x-app-loading-image=none gives me a shaddowed desktop wallpaper with plain nothing. only way to escape is ctrl-bs	11:59
MohammadAG51	yes, until an app shows up	12:00
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MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer51, it's only useful for apps that don't start with a window	12:01
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DocScrutinizer51	my app doesn't start with anything	12:01
MohammadAG51	lol what's your app	12:03
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DocScrutinizer51	wome nonsense script, actually ~/.xchat2/notify.sh	12:04
MohammadAG51	LOL	12:04
DocScrutinizer51	that's exactly what OP was asking for aiui	12:04
MohammadAG51	his script opens a zenity window	12:04
DocScrutinizer51	except for the not working sudobit	12:05
DocScrutinizer51	well, whatever. a app started this way will render device in a rather messed up state	12:05
MohammadAG51	nah	12:06
DocScrutinizer51	looks like a solid flaw or even bug to me	12:06
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer51, it's used by Nokia	12:06
MohammadAG51	Facebook installer, ap news installer, * installer, MeeGo UI gallery	12:07
DocScrutinizer51	huh?	12:07
DocScrutinizer51	you seem to miss the point	12:07
MohammadAG51	all of those use x-app-loading-image=none	12:08
DocScrutinizer51	nobody can "use" that	12:08
MohammadAG51	why?	12:08
* DocScrutinizer51 sighs		12:08
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fx5	Great... .install-file did what i needed	12:48
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_0x47	could someone tell me the best way to create dependencies for two packages that rely on each other? Is it sane to add the other package to each of them? to make it clear: a.deb depends on b.deb, whereas b.deb depends on a.deb... how to fill debian/control?	13:05
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sx0n	_0x47, by creating third package	13:07
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sx0n	mutual exclusion sounds like poison, without further knowledge.	13:09
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jacekowski	anybody with gdb on a phone and dedicated charger at hand?	13:11
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DocScrutinizer51	jacekowski: ADCIN0 is marked as BATTEMP in schematics, just FYI	13:14
jacekowski	_0x47: never create circular dependency	13:14
_0x47	sx0n and jacekowski, thanks this is why I ask. Seems not to be an good idea. So, I guess a virtual package is what I need, is it?	13:15
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nidO	basically yeh, just create c.deb depending on a.deb and b.deb	13:15
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer51: adcin0 on twl?	13:16
_0x47	and how to prevent a.deb and b.deb being installed alone?	13:16
jacekowski	you can't	13:16
nidO	well specifically for maemo, dont mark either of them as user packages	13:16
DocScrutinizer51	yes	13:16
_0x47	or is this not a problem? both of them would install, but would be unusable	13:16
jacekowski	that sort of design is wrong	13:17
_0x47	nidO: ah, that makes sense, that would prolly work :)	13:17
nidO	if someone specifically wants to go out of their way to install a non user package you cant stop them, but there's no real reason they would	13:17
jacekowski	either have them in one package or just separate them	13:17
_0x47	then just c.deb is the user/ app	13:17
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kaie	duing package install (I clicked on that amazon installer), my original nokia battery died, after just 2 months, and even while the charger was connected. device turned off	13:18
_0x47	so, i didn't try, but would dh_make work without a source package? because I don't have one, it would just be the debian/control depending on the a. and b. deb	13:18
kaie	now using another battery. need to repair package database...	13:18
wazd	[fremantle]: hildon-theme-marina 1.151 UNKNOWN	13:19
wazd	what the hell does that mean? :)	13:20
kaie	so, "apt-get update" tells me "following sig couldn't be verified, because public key unavailable, in order to fix it run apt-get update" ... recursion. looking for a fix	13:20
D-Iivil	wazd: where?	13:21
wazd	D-Iivil: that was the autobuilder mail response	13:22
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D-Iivil	wazd: check this: background-image: url(mid.jpg); background-repeat:repeat-y; background-position: center;	13:22
D-Iivil	wazd: ups!	13:23
D-Iivil	Not that :D	13:23
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D-Iivil	https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-June/024345.html	13:23
* kaie got past that error		13:23
wazd	D-Iivil: oh, thanks	13:23
wazd	D-Iivil: whatever that means :D	13:24
D-Iivil	wazd: you are missing a field in your control-file I think	13:25
wazd	D-Iivil: the weird thing is that it is there as always	13:25
wazd	Architecture: all	13:25
D-Iivil	Hmm	13:26
D-Iivil	Hold on	13:26
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D-Iivil	wazd: try this: move this line on your control file to the bottom of the file: XSBC-Bugtracker: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32761	13:27
wazd	D-Iivil: I've just added a break	13:27
D-Iivil	There should be one empty line break after Standards-Version -line and then should come the Architecture -field	13:27
wazd	D-Iivil: let's see	13:27
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D-Iivil	wazd: seems like you're also using the old control-file template. You have old depencies there.	13:29
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D-Iivil	wazd: should be like this: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), hildon-theme-layout-5 (>= 0.15.0), hildon-theme-layout-5 (< 0.16.0), hildon-theme-tools, imagemagick	13:29
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D-Iivil	wazd: have you also changed all other files in under your applications -folder etc when you started to use the new theme template?	13:30
wazd	D-Iivil: no, I've already fixed it :)	13:30
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D-Iivil	wazd: okay then. Just caught my eye while looking at your control-file.	13:31
* D-Iivil goes doing some heavy cigarette smoking		13:33
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RST38h	moo wazd	13:36
wazd	RST38h: heya :)	13:36
RST38h	wazd: How is suffering?	13:36
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wazd	RST38h: death fight with autobuilder again :)	13:37
alterego	Heh	13:37
RST38h	wazd: The autobuilder cannot be defeated!	13:38
RST38h	Just beaten into pulp for a while	13:38
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wazd	RST38h: yeah, I know, it kicks me in the nuts again and again :)	13:39
wazd	RST38h: "FAILED: You're too blond!"	13:39
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wazd	RST38h: crazy woman from AKADO just called and asked me if I want to use their digital tv stuff	13:42
wazd	RST38h: I said that I don't watch TV at all. "But you can use digital tv anyway" :D	13:43
wazd	Who's making vuvuzela app? :D	13:43
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nidO	and why havent they put a bullet in their own brain yet	13:44
crashanddie	nidO: because vuvuzelas don't fire bullets	13:44
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wazd	https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/hildon-theme-marina_1.152/i386.build.log.FAILED.txt	13:45
fx5	I finished my vuvuzela app right now	13:45
* wazd stands in the rain and screams "whyyyyyyyy?!"		13:45
pupnik_	is MONO bad for meego?	13:45
alterego	is MONO on MeeGo?	13:46
pupnik_	yes sadly	13:46
wazd	fx5: you need loop option :)	13:46
pupnik_	some novell dude snuck it in with banshee media player	13:46
alterego	I don't think it's bad at all I quite like C#	13:46
alterego	If performance is good, I'd rather use that than C++ for quite a few things.	13:47
pupnik_	this crap has twisted legal implications	13:47
pupnik_	it's not about the code	13:47
alterego	Well, apparently.	13:47
wazd	fx5: but that's fucking brilliant :D	13:47
fx5	wazd: you have to blow into the microphone... so it is not too easy to annoy anyone	13:47
fx5	wazd: http://apt.fx5-1.de/n900/install/vuvu.install	13:47
DocScrutinizer	Mostly Obsolete Nonsensical Object	13:47
wazd	fx5: aaah	13:47
wazd	fx5: then it's not yurs in devel	13:47
fx5	no, is there one? didn't see yet	13:48
wazd	fx5: yeah :)	13:48
fx5	will try it	13:49
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fx5	maybe it has a better sound than mine	13:49
wazd	fx5: well, it has pretty authentic sound :)	13:49
DocScrutinizer	if your swap goes nuts, don't fire up top, just do a killall "mono"	13:51
fx5	yes, the sound is better	13:51
D-Iivil	wazd: had that error once too. Easiest fix was to re-download the theme master template and then just copy & paste all images from old "session" to the new re-downloaded one and then change the control etc files line by line.	13:52
DocScrutinizer	Maximum Offending Non Operational	13:52
jacekowski	.not	13:53
DocScrutinizer	I mean, even .net is BS. So what's the idea to port it to linux, then?!	13:53
alterego	Has anyone else got an app with a donate option in maemo.org extras?	13:53
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BCMM	alterego: fMMS does	13:55
nidO	mappero has one	13:55
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* BCMM wonders if frals highlights on fMMS		13:56
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nidO	he probably does on frals	13:56
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alterego	Just wondering if it had worked for anyone at all, I.E. how generous our user space actually is. My app is a pretty shitty one tbh, So I'm not gonna be suprised if I don't get anything :)	13:57
alterego	But I'm working on something to publish on Ovi, which I hope will be pretty successful.	13:58
BCMM	i think somebody gave frals money	13:58
D-Iivil	Oh noh, now it's done. I just left my dear N900 to Nokia Cervice Centre. I miss it already :(	13:58
jacekowski	so, you can publish to ovi?	13:58
jacekowski	seriously?	13:58
nidO	been able to for a while	13:58
alterego	D-Iivil: you need a spare :)	13:58
jacekowski	i've heard that it's like impossible	13:58
nidO	and they accept independant devs now	13:58
jacekowski	and that it's user and developer hostile	13:58
nidO	it is that	13:59
alterego	jacekowski: they openned it to indie developers last week, 50 EUR one off charge to be an Ovi publisher.	13:59
D-Iivil	alterego: yeah... seems like I do :(	13:59
jacekowski	WOW	13:59
jacekowski	alterego: seriously?	13:59
D-Iivil	jacekowski: yeah	13:59
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alterego	jacekowski: yup, it was announced with Nokia Qt SD 1.0	13:59
MohammadAG51	SDK*	14:00
jacekowski	SD?	14:00
D-Iivil	I thought a second about submitting my new themes to OVi but then I realized how fucked up the whole OVi -shop is and has been.	14:00
Kegetys	can we get a common publishing license for the whole community? :P	14:00
MohammadAG51	SDK*	14:00
MohammadAG51	err	14:00
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MohammadAG51	damn up + enter	14:00
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alterego	And I think we're in a unique marketting position too, people are dying for N900 apps, and judging from a tmo thread yesterday base users seem to trust Ovi content over maemo extras ...	14:00
D-Iivil	So no support from me to OVi.	14:00
MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, free themes in the store? eww	14:01
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jacekowski	themes should disappear	14:01
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG51: tested down+enter? :-D	14:01
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jacekowski	and go to separate repository	14:01
nidO	these should be in their own ham category	14:01
nidO	themes*	14:01
alterego	Yeah, theme's need to be distributed in some other way imo	14:01
D-Iivil	nidO: yeah, second to that!	14:01
jacekowski	separate repo	14:01
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer51, judging by the source it makes the device implode	14:01
D-Iivil	jacekowski: I think separate category would be just fine.	14:01
MohammadAG51	yeah, I also agree on a separate category	14:02
D-Iivil	I don't understand why there isn't one already... or has been from the beginning.	14:02
jacekowski	no because it will still appear in "All"	14:02
MohammadAG51	lol	14:02
MohammadAG51	seriously who uses ham...	14:02
D-Iivil	I find it very very stupid to search themes under desktop or system -category.	14:02
nidO	whats wrong with that, "all" by definition should be showing everything	14:02
jacekowski	nidO: application manager	14:02
MohammadAG51	apt-get ftw	14:03
jacekowski	nidO: *application"	14:03
jacekowski	nidO: not application and themes manage	14:03
jacekowski	r	14:03
jacekowski	do you get it?	14:03
MohammadAG51	that can be arranged	14:03
nidO	I dont see any point in making it more akward to use for no sensible reason other than you dont think it has a fully explicit name	14:03
* MohammadAG51 edits ham's name to HT&AM		14:03
alterego	There's no bloody consistency either, even D-Iivilhas publiched under two diffrent categories. :)	14:04
D-Iivil	jacekowski: then you might find it nice that I won't upload separate packages anymore to repos if I create a variation of some theme. I'll just make a single package and simple script which can change the variation on the fly.	14:04
D-Iivil	alterego: yeah, my bad and I'm sorry.	14:04
alterego	D-Iivil: it's okay, we're all learning :)	14:04
D-Iivil	alterego: Maemo Wiki says that themes should go under system -category, but the theme template I'm using has "desktop" set by default and I've accidently forgot to change that to system.	14:05
MohammadAG51	everyone fucks up somewhere :)	14:05
MohammadAG51	alterego, rm -rf'd my / once	14:05
alterego	Theme's were never really thought about when we started maemo.	14:05
alterego	Hah, fool! :)	14:05
alterego	I've done it a couple of times.	14:05
MohammadAG51	yep, your package did that	14:05
alterego	rm -rf * is also a killer :P	14:06
D-Iivil	btw, can the category be changed just by uploading a new version with different category in control-file?	14:06
alterego	I don't back my stuff up because I'm scared of hardware failure, I do it because I don't trust me with a computer :D	14:06
MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, never hurts to try :P	14:06
alterego	D-Iivil: yes	14:06
DocScrutinizer51	alterego: rm -rf .* is really mice	14:06
DocScrutinizer51	nice	14:07
DocScrutinizer51	even	14:07
alterego	Newer versions will replace older versions debian/control info.	14:07
D-Iivil	alterego: okay.. well, I guess I need to seek through those themes that are currently under "desktop" and re-upload those to system. Will be a nice task :-D	14:07
alterego	D-Iivil: yup, nice and easy, though they'll need to be promoted again :/	14:07
DocScrutinizer51	alterego: classical admin joke	14:07
D-Iivil	Maybe first check that wiki-page hasn't been updated...	14:07
DocScrutinizer51	"remove all hidden dirs!"	14:08
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DocScrutinizer51	incl., .. MUHAHA	14:08
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alterego	Heh	14:09
RST38h	wazd: That answer has not been in her chart =)	14:09
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D-Iivil	Still says they should go under system: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories	14:09
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MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, edit it	14:09
* D-Iivil takes a deep breath and starts to download sources		14:09
RST38h	wazd: What have you done! You coredumped that poor AKADO girl!	14:09
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: I think the system-category is better than desktop.	14:09
* RST38h thinks themes should go into themes		14:09
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: since themes affect the whole system, not just desktop	14:09
alterego	Me too ...	14:09
D-Iivil	Who should be ping if we would like to have themes -category?	14:10
RST38h	Because right now, Desktop and System categories have become unbrowseable	14:10
MohammadAG51	themes should have a user/themes category	14:10
D-Iivil	RST38h: yeah, I know. Sorry about that.	14:10
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MohammadAG51	that's what's proper	14:10
nidO	D-Iivil, its apparently not practical	14:10
D-Iivil	nidO: why?	14:10
* RST38h also thinks D-Iivil better create some theme-customization app rather than create so many themes that only differ in few colors =)		14:10
D-Iivil	RST38h: already did!	14:11
RST38h	Cooooooool =) Where?	14:11
D-Iivil	Download the latest version of Black Plastic from devel.	14:11
nidO	X-fade's answer a few months ago when I first brought up a themse category was that nokia will need to add it to HAM as well to include the icon	14:11
D-Iivil	It has script that allows you to choose which variation to use and you can change the option later also.	14:11
nidO	so it's not just a repo change, needs nokia's cooperation	14:11
D-Iivil	RST38h: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=732555&postcount=218	14:11
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nidO	doing it like that via a script seems a much preferable way rather than uploading 5689034803 packages with colour variations :p	14:13
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DocScrutinizer51	definitely	14:14
alterego	D-Iivil: look into zenity to present a UI to the user via script.	14:14
D-Iivil	alterego: it uses zenity already	14:14
alterego	oh sweet :)	14:15
D-Iivil	Thanks to MohammadAG51 and friends who guided me to it :D	14:15
D-Iivil	alterego: check the link I just posted.	14:15
alterego	Hah, I accept your thanks, as I showed it to MohammadAG51 :P	14:15
SpeedEvil	D-Iivil: great - much easier for users to try more.	14:15
D-Iivil	alterego: oh it was you!	14:15
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RST38h	D-Iivil: Yep, look good	14:16
D-Iivil	alterego: are you tswindell @ tmo?	14:17
DocScrutinizer51	ooh, so it wasn't me who first asked where is zenity?	14:17
alterego	If you want I can show you how to put that in the settings app rather than app menu	14:17
RST38h	Would probably be better as part of Settings, and with all the settings in one dialog, but can't have everything	14:17
alterego	D-Iivil: yup that's my name :)	14:17
D-Iivil	alterego: yes please. That's the next task I'm trying to survive.	14:17
D-Iivil	alterego: then I already thanked you @ http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=729955&postcount=3 when MohammadAG51 told me to thank you for the zenity -tip :D	14:17
alterego	D-Iivil: you'll need a little C program I wrote, but all you need to do is edit a .desktopfile and one line in the source to run your script/s.	14:18
D-Iivil	So he didn't take the credit ;)	14:18
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alterego	He's such a nice guy :)	14:18
D-Iivil	alterego: sounds great :)	14:18
alterego	timeless_mbp: how'd you bank crap go?	14:18
D-Iivil	Already tried just to move the .desktop -file under hildon-control... but didn't work :)	14:19
DocScrutinizer51	~ MohammadAG	14:19
infobot	somebody said mohammadag was special	14:19
alterego	D-Iivil: yeah, give me half an hour and I'll hook you up with it :)	14:19
D-Iivil	alterego: cool! Just in time so I won't be heading home from work (this is the only place where I have peace to do these things) :-D	14:19
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alterego	Heh.	14:20
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jacekowski	DocScrutinizer51: i see code reading channels 9 and 12 in gaia but well, no reference to them in datasheet	14:20
DocScrutinizer51	whatever channel 9 and 12 means	14:21
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DocScrutinizer51	like ADIN12 :	14:21
DocScrutinizer51	?	14:21
jacekowski	yep	14:21
DocScrutinizer51	omfg	14:21
jacekowski	well, it might just be some internal value	14:22
jacekowski	let me check in driver	14:22
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jacekowski	linux/i2c/twl4030-madc.h:#define TWL4030_MADC_MAX_CHANNELS 16	14:23
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DocScrutinizer51	well that pile of BS also read reg 34 or sth from bq24150	14:24
DocScrutinizer51	hmm, ok	14:24
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DocScrutinizer51	bq24150 has just 5 regs	14:24
DocScrutinizer51	or 6?	14:25
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DocScrutinizer51	I'm missing a nap	14:25
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MohammadAG51	alteregoHah, I accept your thanks, as I showed it to MohammadAG51 :P lol	14:26
pupnik_	in a free market, the working class RULES	14:26
alterego	MohammadAG51: :)	14:26
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alterego	zenity could do with a bit more maemoification though	14:26
MohammadAG51	source is available	14:27
MohammadAG51	:P	14:27
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alterego	Indeed, but I have other things I need to do :P	14:27
MohammadAG51	get people to vote for your app?	14:27
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer51: well, thing is that in drivers it says that it has 16 channels	14:27
DocScrutinizer	hmm, just trying to find the file on mxr	14:28
jacekowski	so it might be some non generic purpose analog in	14:28
* MohammadAG51 asks alterego to make a fake SMS app		14:28
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alterego	D-Iivil: are you okay compiling this yourself? If I just give you the source file?	14:30
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: fake SMS? Send SMSs with someone else's number as sender? :D	14:30
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jacekowski	i can't find registers in datasheet	14:30
D-Iivil	alterego: well.. to be hones, I don't know what I'd need for compiling a C -app.	14:30
D-Iivil	alterego: never done it before.	14:30
alterego	D-Iivil: okay, I'll come up with a Makefile	14:30
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski:	14:30
DocScrutinizer	100 /* Fixed channels */	14:30
DocScrutinizer	101 #define TWL4030_MADC_BTEMP TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN1	14:30
alterego	D-Iivil: then you'll need to add some stuff to your debian/rules file.	14:31
MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, nah, it would just save them in the .db as if someone sent them to you	14:31
D-Iivil	alterego: big PLEASE for that :)	14:31
DocScrutinizer	106 #define TWL4030_MADC_VBAT TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN12	14:31
DocScrutinizer	103 #define TWL4030_MADC_VBKB TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN9	14:31
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DocScrutinizer	main and backup cell voltage	14:31
D-Iivil	MohammadAG51: that would be lame :-/ I remember back on 90's when I had windows program which could send SMSs with faked sender number.	14:31
jacekowski	#define TWL4030_MADC_VBKB TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN9	14:31
jacekowski	#define TWL4030_MADC_VBAT TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN12	14:32
DocScrutinizer	mhm	14:32
rmrfchik	hmm. again hit this bug: phone receives a call, when I click Answer the screen goes black and device locks.	14:32
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: your collation sequence is definitely better than mine :-P	14:32
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MohammadAG51	D-Iivil, alterego is too much of a noob to do that	14:32
rmrfchik	I have to unlock the device and choose "Phone" from application list to pick the call	14:32
* MohammadAG51 hides		14:33
jacekowski	hmmm, WTF?	14:33
jacekowski	???	14:33
jacekowski	very big WTF	14:33
alterego	Heh	14:33
jacekowski	#define TWL4030_MADC_BTEMP TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN1	14:33
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: It's also on the schematic.	14:33
jacekowski	on schematic it's connected to ADCIN0	14:33
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: that's not funny to echo my c&p	14:33
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: correct	14:33
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic#Page_4	14:33
SpeedEvil	rmrfchik: Are you running much stuff from devel, or testing?	14:34
jacekowski	well, that still doesn't explain why it's as ADCIN1 in sources	14:34
rmrfchik	SpeedEvil: dunno. some stuff yes.	14:35
SpeedEvil	rmrfchik: Anything related to call handling?	14:35
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rmrfchik	well.. maemo recorder	14:36
DocScrutinizer	rmrfchik: you not accidentally hold your thumb on proximity sensor?	14:36
crashanddie	how many times have the TSG meetings been rescheduled?	14:36
crashanddie	It's like they don't give a fuck about the people who want to assit, and are content with just checking with the "paid people"	14:37
DocScrutinizer	rmrfchik: or have a crappy screen protector?	14:37
rmrfchik	no protectors.	14:37
vanadismobile	is it possible to see the source code of a website on the n900?	14:37
joga	yes	14:37
joga	(unless I remember wrong..)	14:37
rmrfchik	may be I hold thumb on sensor.. but it is normal -- I pull phone from pocket ;)	14:38
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flux	vanadismobile, if not otherwise, you can always save the page and use some other program to view the source :)	14:38
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vanadismobile	flux, sure	14:38
DocScrutinizer	hmm, holding thumb on prox sensor is supposed to blank screen and locj ts	14:39
vanadismobile	ctrl+u doesn't work -.-	14:39
DocScrutinizer	lock	14:39
flux	docscrutinizer, it is?	14:39
DocScrutinizer	sure	14:39
flux	well, does it actually do it sometimes as well, then?	14:40
joga	during a call	14:40
rmrfchik	DocScrutinizer: hmmm. so when I talk with phone, it goes black and locked?	14:40
joga	yes	14:40
DocScrutinizer	yes	14:40
joga	but only during a call	14:40
rmrfchik	but when I open sensor it goes unlocked	14:40
rmrfchik	this not happens for me	14:41
DocScrutinizer	and only while you hold prox sensor next to ear or thumb :-P	14:41
flux	does the proximity sensor affect the volume during calls, btw?	14:41
flux	because sometimes it seems that the volume varies a lot	14:41
joga	flux: no, it's your ear position	14:41
joga	:)	14:41
joga	the sensor is on/off	14:41
DocScrutinizer	flux: no	14:41
joga	vanadismobile: well, I guess the browser doesn't have that, at least anywhere visible, so I remembered wrong. but probably firefox can do that :)	14:42
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D-Iivil	flux: you have faulty speaker. I had too. Volume varied during phone call and turning the phone made the volume rise back etc. Loose connector or something like that.	14:44
flux	hmm	14:44
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flux	is the ear-speaker different from other speakers?	14:45
flux	(it looks like it is)	14:45
D-Iivil	flux: I think so.	14:45
flux	and how can I switch regular audio output there.. I could simply output some high-volume test tune and check if I can affect its volume by physical means.	14:46
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jacekowski	oO	14:47
jacekowski	VBKP	14:47
jacekowski	why is it reading that	14:47
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alterego	D-Iivil: ping	14:50
D-Iivil	alterego: pong	14:50
alterego	D-Iivil: how do you develop themes? On device or are you using some kind of SDK?	14:50
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D-Iivil	alterego: I have scratchbox running.	14:50
alterego	Cool, you should be able to compile this then	14:51
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alterego	D-Iivil: just need another 10 minutes to test it's working.	14:52
D-Iivil	alterego: no horry :)	14:53
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alterego	D-Iivil: okay, it's done. I'm gonna tar it up and upload it.	14:58
D-Iivil	alterego: great :)	14:59
alterego	There is actually only one file you need to edit ;)	15:00
alterego	And like I said you'll need to modify your debian/rules file a bit and also add a few items to your debian/control depends.	15:00
* timeless_mbp cries		15:00
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D-Iivil	alterego: sounds like it's something even I can survive :-D	15:00
alterego	timeless_mbp: you never voted!	15:00
alterego	:)	15:00
timeless_mbp	i used it!	15:01
alterego	Heh :)	15:01
timeless_mbp	link me	15:01
alterego	D-Iivil: http://alterego.metapath.org/libosso-plugin-exec-loader-0.2.tar.bz2	15:01
alterego	timeless_mbp: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/media-im-status-updater/0.4/	15:01
D-Iivil	alterego: okay, downloaded and extracted	15:02
alterego	Right, to manually build it, cd into the package directory.	15:03
alterego	qmake libosso-plugin-exec-loader.pro	15:03
D-Iivil	okay	15:03
alterego	and then: make	15:03
wazd	I surrender :(	15:03
alterego	D-Iivil: your debian/control file needs to have these added to the Build-Depends list: libqt4-dev, libglib2.0-dev, libgtk2.0-dev, libosso-dev, hildon-control-panel-dev	15:04
D-Iivil	alterego: what should I change and where to make it launch this script /usr/sbin/launchblack ?	15:04
D-Iivil	alterego: ok. Will add those	15:04
alterego	D-Iivil: right, the only file you need to edit is libosso-plugin-exec-loader.pro in the main directory	15:05
alterego	I've commented the lines	15:05
timeless_mbp	Streaming "Classical WETA 90.9 FM - Washington D.C." @ "<unknown>" via Nokia N900	15:05
D-Iivil	alter, oh, okay.	15:05
* timeless_mbp ponders		15:05
alterego	Basically, TARGET and the second DEFINES	15:05
timeless_mbp	alterego: what's w/ "<unknown>" ? :(	15:05
alterego	timeless_mbp: it means that stream souce didn't provide the organisation metadata	15:05
D-Iivil	alterego: so it should be like this: OSSO_PLUGIN_EXEC_LOADER_COMMAND=\\\"/usr/sbin/launchblack\\\"	15:06
* timeless_mbp kicks maemo.org		15:06
timeless_mbp	hurry up!	15:06
timeless_mbp	alterego: i was #10! :)	15:07
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alterego	timeless_mbp: :) saved it just for you :D	15:07
alterego	D-Iivil: yup, exactly, make sure the script is executable.	15:08
alterego	And that should be it.	15:08
D-Iivil	alterego: yes it is.	15:08
alterego	There's also an example .desktop file for you	15:08
alterego	The .desktop needs to go into /usr/share/applications/hildon-control-panel	15:08
D-Iivil	alterego: so should I first compile the thing with qmake after I've changed that one line?	15:08
D-Iivil	qmake gives me command not found -error when typing that inside scratchbox	15:08
alterego	and the library file under "build" once it's built needs to go under /usr/lib/hildon-control-panel/	15:09
D-Iivil	ok	15:09
alterego	D-Iivil: you need to install the build deps then	15:09
D-Iivil	will do that.	15:09
alterego	That one is libqt4-devel	15:09
alterego	Sorry, libqt4-dev :)	15:09
D-Iivil	alterego: so maybe I should build it locally and not make autobuilder do that for me?	15:10
alterego	Both	15:10
alterego	build it locally so you can manually copy the files across and test it all works	15:10
alterego	Once you're happy setup your debian/rules to build and copy the files to the right places. I can show you where and how to edit your rules file.	15:11
D-Iivil	alterego: okay, I've now built it and I see bunch of files under /build -directory	15:11
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alterego	Yeah, it's slightly annoying but you want the odd one out	15:12
alterego	The real file not the symlink	15:12
D-Iivil	alterego: aaah, ofcourse	15:12
alterego	D-Iivil: do you use scp?	15:12
D-Iivil	alterego: yeah	15:12
D-Iivil	alterego: so this one: osso-plugin-exec-loader.o	15:12
alterego	No, .so	15:13
alterego	No, .so.1.0.0 I think :)	15:13
D-Iivil	alterego: this: libplastictheme-cploader.so.1.0.0	15:13
alterego	Yeah, but annoyingly you want to copy it to it's destination as just .so	15:13
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D-Iivil	alterego: okay	15:14
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alterego	Oh, you'll need to edit the .desktop file to use an icon of your choice to, as I bet you don't have my 'media-im-status-updater' iconn :)	15:15
D-Iivil	already did that :)	15:15
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D-Iivil	I see the icon @ settings	15:16
D-Iivil	but it won't launch anything :(	15:16
alterego	Aww ...	15:16
alterego	Hrm .. Unfortunately debuggin this is a pain in the friggin ass :(	15:17
D-Iivil	:d	15:17
D-Iivil	:D	15:17
D-Iivil	let me check.. I have the loader_command typed in correctly. The script is working if I launch it from my own .desktop -shortcut	15:17
alterego	Took me a while to get it to work :/	15:17
wazd	~seen x-fade	15:17
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infobot	x-fade <~xfade@Maemo/community/webmaster/X-Fade> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22h 50m 29s ago, saying: 'Sure.'.	15:17
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wazd	:(	15:18
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pyther	Hi	15:20
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D-Iivil	alterego: anything I can do to debug?	15:20
pyther	Is there any way to force the alarm to keep playing the alarm tone until I tell it to snooze	15:20
pyther	currently it'll do two rounds of the alarm and then auto-snooze	15:21
alterego	D-Iivil: where is your script again?	15:21
alterego	Infact, can you give me your script?	15:21
D-Iivil	alterego: /usr/sbin/launchblack	15:21
D-Iivil	alterego: sure	15:21
alterego	If I can customise the build, reupload it for you and I'll test it here.	15:21
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D-Iivil	alterego: give me sec, I'll upload it somewhere.	15:21
D-Iivil	alterego: http://www.firenote.com/D-Iivil/scripts.tar	15:23
_0x47	while trying to create my virtual / metapackage I get an error from dpkg-buildpackage: make: make: *** No rule to make target `configure', needed by `config.status'. Stop. This seems to be caused by not having a ./configure file, but as this is only a metapackage, would I really need one? Here is my debian/control (icon data removed): http://pastebin.com/ne68C0GF	15:24
alterego	Why have you got two scripst /sbin and /usr/sbin?	15:24
D-Iivil	alterego: there's actually two scripts. One that launches another. Did that to make the xterm window to be hidden from end user (that's what MohammadAG51 did with xarchiver).	15:24
alterego	D-Iivil: you don't need that with this.	15:24
alterego	D-Iivil: just launch the proper script	15:24
D-Iivil	alterego: okay, will try that also.	15:25
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D-Iivil	alterego: can it be located under /sbin or should I move it under /usr/sbin ?	15:25
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alterego	Well, should be under /opt :P	15:25
alterego	in theory	15:25
rmrfchik	in what package diff reside?	15:26
alterego	But /usr/bin is probably better /sbin is meant for super user	15:27
D-Iivil	alterego: I changed the .pro -file to point to correct script, re-built the thing and still won't launch the script :-/	15:27
alterego	Also, I noticde you're using run-standalone.sh in your script all over the place, I don't think it's required for this.	15:27
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_0x47	anyone?	15:27
alterego	D-Iivil: move your script out and write a really simple one that just does: 'echo "test" > /home/user/test.out'	15:28
D-Iivil	alterego: well it's required because that script is ran also during package installation by postinst -script. That's for preventing the installation not to fail if user taps outside the zenity window (will cause exit code 1)	15:28
alterego	See if it's running the script.	15:28
D-Iivil	alterego: will try	15:28
alterego	Ah, okay.	15:28
wazd	even Madde doesn't like laest template :(	15:28
D-Iivil	alterego: okay.. did simple script (echo "test" > /home/user/test.out), placed it under /usr/sbin/ then chmodded it a+x	15:32
D-Iivil	and re-built your thing	15:32
alterego	I don't get your /usr/sbin obsession :P	15:32
tristan	its the best bin.	15:32
D-Iivil	alterego: haha :D	15:32
alterego	It's not really a true system script :P	15:32
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D-Iivil	alterego: but still won't work. file "test.out" won't appear under /home/user	15:33
alterego	I wonder if you need to restart hildon ..	15:34
alterego	Try that	15:34
D-Iivil	what is the command for it?	15:34
alterego	Erm .. sb-af-init.sh restart?	15:34
alterego	I can't remember I Don't use it :P	15:34
alterego	Not for a long time anyhow.	15:34
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alterego	Should really setup a scratchbox install.	15:34
alterego	af-sb-init.sh restart maybe ..	15:35
D-Iivil	alterego: I'm testing it inside scratchbox	15:35
alterego	I know	15:35
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alterego	What does your .desktop file look like?	15:35
D-Iivil	The one I use @ application launcher or the one that you pre-made?	15:36
alterego	The one I premade	15:36
alterego	Have you not modified it?	15:36
D-Iivil	hold on	15:36
D-Iivil	[Desktop Entry] Encoding=UTF-8 Version=1.0 Name=Plastic Theme Setup Comment=Configuration interface for Plastic Theme. Type=HildonControlPanelPlugin Icon=blackplastic X-control-panel-plugin=libplastictheme-cploader.so Categories=general	15:36
D-Iivil	Oh, fuck :D	15:36
D-Iivil	It came in one line..	15:36
alterego	That's fine	15:37
alterego	Better that way tbh	15:37
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alterego	Okay, now can you pastie.org 'ls /usr/lib/hildon-control-panel/' for me :)	15:37
D-Iivil	sec	15:37
DocScrutinizer51	D-Iivil: it better did. pasting >>3 lines is usally deprecated	15:37
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D-Iivil	alterego: I can see there's "libplastictheme-cploader.so" under that folder.	15:38
DocScrutinizer51	D-Iivil: use pastebin please	15:38
D-Iivil	okay	15:38
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alterego	pastie.orrg is better ...	15:39
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D-Iivil	alterego: http://www.pastie.org/1023255	15:39
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alterego	Hrm ..	15:40
kenya888	Hi all	15:40
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alterego	D-Iivil: okay, now paste the "DEFINES" line in your .pro file where you specify the executable for me please.	15:40
D-Iivil	alterego: http://www.pastie.org/1023257	15:41
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D-Iivil	where "jau" is the test script I just made.	15:41
alterego	strange, you see the top line, remove that '\', completely unnessacary	15:42
kenya888	Does anyone know guide doc for developing hildon-im-plugin, except for vkb? I'm interested in other type of plugin for CJK charactor inputing:-)	15:42
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alterego	Oh, also, when you edit the .pro file, you need to run the qmake command again as well.	15:42
D-Iivil	alterego: okay, removed. Should I build it again and test?	15:42
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D-Iivil	alterego: I've done it again.	15:43
alterego	Okay, cool.	15:43
alterego	Yeah, try now.	15:43
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D-Iivil	alterego: still no go :-/	15:44
jacekowski	mhm, why does rapuyama needs 128M of ram?	15:45
kenya888	X-Fade, hi, could i ask you a question about maemo autobuilder queue status?	15:45
X-Fade	wazd: ping?	15:45
X-Fade	kenya888: sure	15:45
alterego	Harm	15:45
wazd	X-Fade: hey there :)	15:45
X-Fade	wazd: Stop using Windows ;)	15:46
wazd	X-Fade: I'm fighting with autobuilder again :)	15:46
X-Fade	wazd: You have windows linefeeds in your first 2 lines.	15:46
wazd	X-Fade: uh	15:46
D-Iivil	alterego: these are the files under "build" folder after typing the "make" -command: http://www.pastie.org/1023262	15:46
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alterego	D-Iivil: leave it with me for a bit, I'll get back to you. I need to do a few errands, I'll try and get it to work with your scripts and let you know what I get done.	15:47
kenya888	X-Fade, thanks, now some my package are in the queue of frematnle extras builder. If you can could you let me know how to clean up them? BTW, it's name is IBus, an input method.	15:47
D-Iivil	alterego: you know you don't have to if you have something else to do ;)	15:47
wazd	X-Fade: and why the hell autobuilder thinks that 1.095 is newer than 1.17-1? :D	15:47
X-Fade	wazd: Because it is.	15:48
D-Iivil	alterego: anyways I need to hit the road in few minutes. Need to drop my wife to her work.	15:48
kenya888	X-Fade, you can see queue status from extras-assistant top page. https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/	15:48
alterego	D-Iivil: well, I do right now, but I'll be free later :P	15:48
alterego	Okay, I'll let you know how I get on next time you're here.	15:48
wazd	X-Fade: I'm not that bad at maths :D	15:48
D-Iivil	alterego: yeah, sounds cool. I think I'll be online after four hours or so.	15:48
alterego	m'kay	15:49
D-Iivil	alterego: but thanks for your effort so far! Great to have people like you hanging around here :)	15:49
X-Fade	wazd: That is how debian version number comparison works.	15:49
D-Iivil	so long =>	15:49
X-Fade	wazd: Check dpkg --compare-versions	15:49
alterego	caio	15:49
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X-Fade	kenya888: Hmm I wonder why these packages aren't being processed.	15:51
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kenya888	X-Fade, me too. I don't change any of the way making source pkg:-(	15:53
lcuk	X-Fade, kenya888 has had probs with his package for a while i recall :S	15:53
lcuk	kenya888, you are just keeping x-fade on his toes :D	15:53
X-Fade	There seem to be a lot of locks in place, I wonder why.	15:53
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* vldcnst runs and hides.		15:54
kenya888	lcuk, thanks a lot :-)	15:55
X-Fade	kenya888: All your packages have been building for all this time.	15:55
X-Fade	kenya888: So I think something in the build makes it stall.	15:55
X-Fade	kenya888: Most likely related to rsvg-convert it seems.	15:55
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kenya888	X-Fade, Oh... rsvg-convert!! hmm... it may be true...	15:57
X-Fade	kenya888: Shall I kill those processes and see what happens? :)	15:57
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kenya888	X-Fade, yes, of course, please :-)	15:57
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jacekowski	X-Fade: is there a timeout?	15:58
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wazd	X-Fade: damn, how can I delete these symbols and why they've appeared now? :)	15:58
X-Fade	jacekowski: no	15:58
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wazd	X-Fade: I've been using windows for ages :)	15:58
X-Fade	wazd: Use wordpad next time :)	15:58
jacekowski	wordpad convert linux line endings to windows	15:59
wazd	X-Fade: in fact it's exactly what I'm using :D	15:59
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X-Fade	jacekowski: not if it is a linux file to begin with.	15:59
X-Fade	notepad does though	15:59
jacekowski	no	16:00
jacekowski	notepad can't open linux line endings	16:00
jacekowski	and you end up with file that has one long line	16:00
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jpe	the n900 does not have rSap onboard, my wife's simple nokia phone does :-(	16:00
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BCMM	it isn't a linux line ending, it's a unix line ending - just another case of microsoft doing one thing and almost everyone else doing something else	16:00
lcuk	jpe, what is rSap and why will it make my life better	16:00
BCMM	(see also HTML and programming APIs)	16:01
jacekowski	BCMM: well, mac is a unix	16:01
jacekowski	BCMM: and it has \n\r	16:01
jacekowski	BCMM: opposite to windows	16:01
jpe	its a bluetooth protocol and it allows ou to communicate with most modern car-kits	16:01
BCMM	jacekowski: that's what i said isn't it? everybody else does the other thing	16:02
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jacekowski	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline#History	16:02
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jacekowski	ASCII was developed simultaneously by the ISO and the ASA, the predecessor organization to ANSI. During the period of 1963–1968, the ISO draft standards supported the use of either CR+LF or LF alone as a newline, while the ASA drafts supported only CR+LF.	16:02
BCMM	jacekowski: hang on, what is \r?	16:03
jacekowski	The sequence CR+LF was in common use on many early computer systems that had adopted teletype machines,	16:03
jacekowski	BCMM: carriage return	16:03
jacekowski	\n - line feed	16:03
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jacekowski	CR+LF	16:03
BCMM	jacekowski: and are you sure mac does \n\r	16:03
jpe	what i don't understand, rSap is basically a nokia owned protocol....	16:03
jacekowski	MS-DOS adopted CP/M's CR+LF; CP/M's use of CR+LF made sense for using computer terminals via serial lines.	16:03
jacekowski	The Multics operating system began development in 1964 and used LF alone as its newline. Unix followed the Multics practice, and later systems followed Unix.	16:03
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lcuk	jpe - maemo comes from a different background, im sure the 900 is capable of supporting the protocol, its just not been written yet. just like we have a community MMS package - if, if this means much to you then find out about it and discuss ways to make it happen	16:03
BCMM	that's "Line fee, carriage return", isn't it?	16:03
jacekowski	BCMM: yes	16:04
jacekowski	BCMM: it's reverse of what windows is doing	16:04
jacekowski	which doesn't comply to any standard	16:04
BCMM	jacekowski: i thought MacOS and linux did \n, and windows did \r\n	16:04
jacekowski	no	16:04
BCMM	and nobody did \n\r	16:04
jacekowski	same fucking thing they did to 4 pin 3.5mm jack	16:04
jacekowski	nokia was 1st company to use it	16:05
jacekowski	and everybody had it compatible with nokia	16:05
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jacekowski	and then apple made it fucking opposite	16:05
BCMM	jacekowski: oh, so macos does \n\r, and nobody else does?	16:05
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jpe	lcuk: i voted for it on the maemo org site, but still, 90 votes is not al lot -> http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/rsap-remote_sim-support_for_n900/	16:05
jacekowski	BCMM: yep	16:06
BCMM	jacekowski: what did they swap, and can you still use an apple cable if you plug the left, right, video things in to a TV in the wrong order?	16:06
jacekowski	BCMM: their video cable is connected to dock connector	16:06
jacekowski	BCMM: and apple headphones are detected as tvout cable	16:07
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jacekowski	in nokia	16:07
X-Fade	kenya888: It seems that killing rsgv-convert got it going again. So something must be blocking/looping there.	16:07
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BCMM	jacekowski: is is now, but on older ipods there is a video out cable that comes from the headphones port	16:07
wazd	X-Fade: I think you should integrate vuvuzela sound into failed autobuilder report :D http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/hildon-theme-marina_1.165/i386.build.log.FAILED.txt	16:07
BCMM	jacekowski: oh, are these iphone headphones with a mic on them?	16:07
DocScrutinizer51	jacekowski: I don't think Nokia was first to use 4pin 3.5 with sane/standard headphone compliant config	16:08
jacekowski	yes	16:08
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X-Fade	wazd: We have plenty of vuvuzela sounds around already.	16:08
BCMM	jacekowski: are you sure the mac newline thing applies to OS X and not just Classic?	16:08
jacekowski	it's called niggerhorn	16:08
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jacekowski	BCMM: well i fortunatelly never had to touch osx	16:08
lcuk	jpe - help it along then, find out about the protocol itself and what would be required	16:08
jacekowski	BCMM: but i'm sure that it was the case with all macs i had to touch	16:09
alterego	Well, I don't know what he was sdoing wrong, but it works perfectly for me :)	16:09
BCMM	jacekowski: OS X's graphical stuff is a pain to use, but the command line is just BSD	16:09
jacekowski	and i think files from iphone had it in reverse as well	16:09
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BCMM	jacekowski: and i believe they use unix newlines now	16:09
jpe	lcuk: nokia doesn't want to open this protocol....	16:09
lcuk	and talk about it - your passion about helping cure things will count towards whether solutions come (that is same for anything)	16:09
BCMM	jacekowski: easier than modifying all the BSD stuff they borrowed	16:09
lcuk	jpe, to be honest, when has that ever stopped anyone hacking	16:10
jacekowski	maemo is LE?	16:10
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kenya888	X-Fade, thanks! I've received some emails telling to fail to building :-)	16:10
X-Fade	kenya888: Next time you have a problem with your package blocking, please don't upload 10 packages after ;)	16:10
lcuk	X-Fade, i think that was our fault :$ i tihnk at first it was problem with version numbers so we said push a new one	16:11
wazd	X-Fade: I can't locate anything with wordpad :(	16:11
wazd	X-Fade: it still fails :(	16:11
X-Fade	wazd: Get linux?	16:11
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jacekowski	kenya888: just submit package which has "killall -u $USER" in rules	16:11
X-Fade	wazd: Or a proper editor?	16:11
wazd	X-Fade: well, it worked flawlessly before	16:11
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X-Fade	wazd: That doesn't make it right :) Specs tell you only to use \n	16:12
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kenya888	X-Fade, OK, I understand:-) sorry for confusing... :D	16:14
X-Fade	wazd: http://www.dos2unix.org/	16:14
X-Fade	kenya888: No problem :)	16:14
BCMM	jacekowski: i really cannot find any citation for macos using \n\r, although apparently os 9 used \r without a \n, which is the opposite of linux, in a sense	16:14
wazd	X-Fade: maybe you can setup autobuilder to parse these symbols? :)	16:15
X-Fade	wazd: No	16:15
jacekowski	maybe	16:15
zash	BCMM: OS X uses \n, as *nix	16:15
X-Fade	wazd: They are just not valid.	16:15
jacekowski	it was long time ago	16:15
alterego	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg	16:15
kenya888	jacekowsk, Oh, it's nice idea! :-)	16:15
alterego	rofl	16:15
kenya888	jacekowski, thx!:-)	16:16
lcuk	wazd, on linux there is a dos2unix tool which will sort out the crlfs "infected" from windows - perhaps a similar windows tool is available to fix your problems and runnable directly on windows	16:16
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X-Fade	lcuk: Check the url I posted ;)	16:17
lcuk	lol ok X-Fade that would do it	16:17
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wazd	X-Fade: I still wonder why it never happened before	16:19
X-Fade	wazd: Because the tools were from 2005 then.	16:19
X-Fade	wazd: New tools don't like it, complain to Debian upstream :)	16:20
wazd	X-Fade: hah :)	16:20
alterego	http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/06/28/how-do-you-hold-your-nokia/	16:20
alterego	Pahah	16:20
DocScrutinizer51	I'm holding them in couples, in small cages	16:21
ShadowJK	so nobody saw the picture in the manual how to hold N900	16:21
DocScrutinizer51	manual?	16:21
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kenya888	yah! I have another question again. Do you know any information for developing hildon-im-plugin except for virtual keyboard? I'd like to develop bridge plugin between hildon-im and ibus:-)	16:27
wazd	X-Fade: looks like it helped, thanks a lot! :)	16:28
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X-Fade	wazd: Of course it did :D	16:28
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wazd	X-Fade: though Daniel says that he didn't see these symbols with nano either :)	16:29
X-Fade	wazd: Doesn't mean they are not there.	16:29
wazd	X-Fade: you have some third eye or something :D	16:29
X-Fade	wazd: No, I just googled the error message.	16:30
X-Fade	No magic involved.	16:30
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flux	x-fade, that's amazing! you can do that?!	16:30
wazd	X-Fade: oooh. Didn't think of that actually :D	16:30
X-Fade	Most people don't, that is the problem.	16:30
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DrGrov	WTF?	16:35
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ptl	what?	16:36
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DrGrov	A Vuvuzela sound? You gotta be shitting me	16:36
ptl	where?	16:36
DrGrov	Being made for the repos	16:37
ptl	[user@n900 user]% apt-cache search vuvuzela	16:37
ptl	vuvuzela - A simple Vuvuzela application with a start & a stop button. Possibility to change the background colour.	16:37
ptl	holy shit.	16:37
DrGrov	Why the fuck does anybody want a Vuvuzela application? Seriously, gotta be fucking shitting me	16:38
DrGrov	Sorry for publicly swearing	16:38
nidO	it'd be ace if whoever's writing that application could do the world a favour and kill himself	16:39
DrGrov	YES!	16:39
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DrGrov	I have such a fucking migraine when watching the World Cup now with that insanely disturbing vuvuzela sounds coming through	16:39
ptl	just vote it down	16:40
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mortini	DrGrov: go watch some youtube videos with it turned on	16:41
nidO	cant, its a shit app that serves no purpose other than being an annoyance to anyone unlucky enough to be near the dickhead n900 owner with it installed, but thats not a reason to downvote it if it hits testing and it actually works like it should	16:41
DrGrov	mortini: no fuck no, no youtube videos for me with that insanely fucked up sound in the background	16:41
kwtm	Hi! Need help: my n900 has become useless: hangs on bootup (5 flashing dots continue for hours).	16:41
nidO	reflash it	16:42
lcuk	i actually find vuvuzela sound (some good continuous recording thereof) to be relaxing	16:42
mortini	heh	16:42
ptl	reflash it	16:42
DrGrov	relaxing!?	16:42
nidO	and then dont do whatever it was you last did that broke it	16:42
DrGrov	seriously!?	16:42
DocScrutinizer	if Nokia had done a little smarter on AV and audio in general, we could create an antivuvu app that filters out the annoying angry bees from audio, before feeding it to your home stereo or TV surround	16:42
lcuk	it blocks out the edge of hearing noises that usually catch my attention	16:42
kenya888	OK, i'll leave here. thanks X-Fade, lcuk, and all thank you again again again :D:D bye!!	16:42
kwtm	Looks like the only way to reset is to re-flash the firmware (no hardware reset button). I want to verify: this is NOT the same as me upgrading to PR1.2 via the App Manager, right?	16:42
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X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: Just install the equalizer?	16:42
kwtm	(If "reflashing" is the same as "upgrading to PR1.2" then the App Manager already did that.)	16:43
DrGrov	Well, be back later. Football time in 15 minutes	16:43
nidO	reflashing is a full os reinstall	16:43
* pahartik does not watch any sports, but thought about listening to audio track once just to hear what "it" sounds like		16:43
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: a first step on sw side, but still unclear how to get stereo in to the device	16:43
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DocScrutinizer	anyway, me is afk again	16:43
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: fifa.com stream? :)	16:43
kenya888	The game of Japan vs Paraguay is going to start:-)	16:43
kwtm	nid0: Actually, this is my second n900. I had to return the first one to the store due to same problem. Can't figure out what I did to break it. One day I pulled it out of holster, and it had hung.	16:43
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kwtm	Okay, will download the flasher deb package and reflash. Hope it works (not sure how to get it to talk to USB if hung.)	16:44
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X-Fade	kwtm: Flashing is basically reinstalling the factory software.	16:44
nidO	pahartik: "it" is just a fucking annoying horn. people suddenly find vuvuzela sounds neat because it's "cultural", but the truth is the noise they make is just as fucking annoying as those tits that stand near people with air horns	16:44
aboyer	how can i install/setup a scratchbox pr1.1.1 sdk?	16:44
ptl	I've got a bull-calling horn in my house and I learnt how to use it	16:45
ptl	when there are vuvuzelas making noise nearby I just honk my horn	16:45
kwtm	X-Fade: Ok. I understand. I'm really just looking for a "hard reset" so it won't hang on boot-up. Is there something I should do to figure out what I did to make it crash? Some strace program or debugger code something?	16:45
X-Fade	kwtm: Depends on how skilled you are, but then again, you wouldn't be asking that if ... ;)	16:46
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pahartik	nidO: It has been all over news and discussions on radio... My thought is just to use "mute" on audio amplifier... But...	16:46
nidO	just think about what you're doing when you use it, so that if it happens again you remember what you've done to it since last reboot	16:46
ptl	actually, there is, but it is not practical. You can use the serial wires behind the battery to try and get a serial console.	16:46
X-Fade	kwtm: Problem is that if it doesn't boot, all easy solutions go out of the door.	16:46
kwtm	Is there a hardware button on the n900 to do hard reset when the boot-up sequence turns into an infinite loop? (And why on earth would the bootup sequence become an infinite loop, anyway?)	16:46
X-Fade	no	16:46
nidO	maemo doesnt tend to just up and die of it's own accord, you've probably hit onto a broken devel application or you've tried manually changing things yourself and done it wrong	16:47
X-Fade	Probably because your rootfs is corrupted.	16:47
X-Fade	Or full	16:47
kwtm	X-Fade: Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. If two n900's in a row (this is my second one) keep coming up with the same problem, I'll just have to return it and get a droid or something. :(	16:47
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ptl	kwtm: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	16:47
X-Fade	Flashing takes a minute though.	16:47
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nidO	kwtm, why're you afraid of that? as we said when you first asked, just reflash the device	16:48
X-Fade	But really, I wonder how you managed to do that.	16:48
nidO	its like a 2 minute process to reset it	16:48
kwtm	X-Fade: Well, something corrupted rootfs on two n900's in a row. It's probably something from maemo.org that I installed, but if I can't install apps, I might as well buy some $10 phone or something.	16:48
nidO	how many have you installed from -devel.	16:48
lcuk	kwtm, do you install apps from extras, or from extras-devel also?	16:48
kwtm	nidO: Because when it crashes while I'm in the middle of work, I can't reflash it. Then my phone is useless until I can get home and have a chance to reflash.	16:49
X-Fade	kwtm: It hasn't happened to me ever and I install all kind of dodgy software on purpose.	16:49
nidO	ditto	16:49
kwtm	lcuk: I haven't enabled any other repositories, just what was visible in App Manager when I first turned on the device. I guess that's "extras" but not "extras-devel"?	16:49
kwtm	X-Fade: Maybe I got two bad ones in a batch? I did get both from the same store.	16:49
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X-Fade	kwtm: No way that an app from Extras can have caused it.	16:50
X-Fade	kwtm: Flash your device and see if that fixes it.	16:50
kwtm	X-Fade: What do you think? Bad microSD card? (It couldn't be a bad SIM card would it?)	16:50
X-Fade	kwtm: broken mmc is very very rare.	16:50
kwtm	X-Fade: I will reflash it. On the other hand, the n900 was working perfectly until one time when I pulled it out, the screen was completely black and unresponsive.	16:50
X-Fade	kwtm: Did you remove the battery?	16:51
nidO	havent really seen any of them either here or on tmo other than ones that've been dropped and had the card knocked loose	16:51
lcuk	kwtm, i dont know offhand what you managed to do (obviously) but your case does not sound normal in the least	16:51
kwtm	X-fade: After I could not get it to respond, I removed the battery and replaced it.	16:51
X-Fade	kwtm: Ok.	16:51
kwtm	lcuk: That is reassuring. At least now I know I have some hope of getting a n900 that does not do this.	16:51
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X-Fade	kwtm: It really sounds like a software issue, but it is hard to debug without access to the device. (And a jig) :)	16:52
lcuk	kwtm, i am also doubtful its hardware related	16:52
kwtm	Oh, the first n900 had this behaviour where it got slower and slower (e.g. 30 seconds to respond to a tap). Is there something I should have done (e.g. on the X-terminal) before it became completely unresponsive?	16:52
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lcuk	if you reflash, restore your apps and take a backup of your normal working set	16:52
X-Fade	Yes, close some apps :)	16:53
kwtm	Okay, I'm going to reflash it now. Wish me luck! (or "wish me lcuk"! :) )	16:53
nidO	some widgets have memory leaks which will cause that kind of behavior over a period of a few days	16:53
lcuk	come back here with those and we can see if there is potentially anything in those apps	16:53
X-Fade	No luck needed though.	16:53
lcuk	ie, do you know which apps you installed last	16:53
lcuk	ie, did you do the maemo5 upgrade from app manager, or had you already flashed pr1.2 directly	16:53
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aboyer	is it possible to setup a pr1.1.1 scratchbox environment?	16:58
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X-Fade	aboyer: yes, but why?	16:58
aboyer	X-Fade: in order to build an application for a pr1.1.1 device	16:58
nidO	why?	16:59
X-Fade	aboyer: Just build it on PR1.2 with symbols enabled and make sure you don't use a new api?	16:59
E0x	why still in pr1.1.1 ?	16:59
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lcuk	E0x, because some folks dont upgrade - its like people still used chinook even when diablo came out	16:59
aboyer	we have an instalation which is using 1.1.1 and upgrading is not really an option since it would take to much time for the QA...	16:59
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aboyer	X-Fade: what do you mean "with symbols enabled"? is that a scratchbox thing or a compiler thing?	17:01
X-Fade	aboyer: if you use the squeeze devkit in scratchbox and install maemo-sdk-symbols, it will be done automagically.	17:02
X-Fade	aboyer: It will then always specify the lowest version dependencies possible.	17:02
lcuk	some kind of voodoo!	17:03
aboyer	X-Fade: ok, thanks. i'll try that out...	17:03
lcuk	:D and awesome	17:03
X-Fade	Which is what we do on the autobuilder.	17:03
X-Fade	aboyer: Just submit your app there to see if it works ;)	17:03
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X-Fade	if it is opensource of course.	17:03
kwtm	About flashing: to reset the device, I do not need to read the part about "flash eMMC", just "flashing the firmware", right?	17:03
lcuk	kwtm, yes initially	17:03
X-Fade	kwtm: Yes, try firmware only first.	17:03
aboyer	X-Fade: one more question, if i setup a new scratchbox environment (as of today), will squeeze be the default devkit?	17:04
X-Fade	aboyer: no	17:04
X-Fade	But you can install it in parallel.	17:04
X-Fade	And switch between them.	17:04
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aboyer	hmm... that is what i tried doing in the first place (having multiple targets in scratchbox) but it borked my 1.1.1 target, hence the questions here today...	17:05
X-Fade	That is what we use sbdmock for.	17:05
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* aboyer googles sbdmock		17:06
X-Fade	http://wiki.maemo.org/Building_packages_with_sbdmock	17:07
wazd	mmm, now marina package is 48 kb	17:09
wazd	and screwed obviously :)	17:09
kwtm	Could someone verify that the firmware I should download for flashing is "PR 1.2 version 10.2010.19-1"? It's marked "latest global Maemo 5". I should not use "OS 2009 version 1.2009.42-11" which is just marked "global Maemo 5", right? Or is the "latest" too bleeding edge to use?	17:09
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X-Fade	kwtm: latest is 19-1 == PR1.2	17:10
kwtm	X-Fade: Thanks. I didn't notice that option till I started downloading the other one.	17:10
kwtm	Crumm, it's going to be a 45-minute download.	17:10
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wazd	X-Fade: I don;'t think that wrong symbols cause that :) Size: 8330 bytes	17:11
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X-Fade	wazd: Sorry, try to find someone else to look at it, really need to work on other things.	17:12
wazd	X-Fade: ok, nm :)	17:12
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* X-Fade just imported 500+ packages from Extras into OBS to see how many will build.		17:15
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D-Iivil	greetings everyone.	17:18
alterego	D-Iivil: well, I don't know what you're doing wrong, but I got it to work first time :P	17:19
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* D-Iivil just witnessed the fastest Nokia repair ever!		17:20
alterego	D-Iivil: :)	17:20
D-Iivil	alterego, that's weird	17:20
alterego	D-Iivil: They're usually pretty good in my experience, but I think people have different, erm, experiences.	17:20
D-Iivil	alterego, yeah.	17:20
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D-Iivil	alterego, can you drop the link to the source tar, so I can play with it later tonight?	17:21
D-Iivil	I currently don't have remote access to my work PC which I downloaded the files earlier today...	17:22
alterego	Okay, baring in mind, that I tested on device, _not_ scratchbox, as I don't have scratchbox installed.	17:22
D-Iivil	alterego, I will test it also on my device now that I got it back :P	17:22
alterego	D-Iivil: http://alterego.metapath.org/libosso-plugin-exec-loader-0.2.tar.bz2	17:24
alterego	The only issue I had, was your script quits straight away if your THEMEDIR doesn't exist.	17:24
alterego	And it didn't on my device :)	17:24
alterego	So I just commented out that conditional and it workd fine.	17:24
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alterego	Albeit, I couldn't even run it from the console because of the above issue so ...	17:25
D-Iivil	yeah.	17:25
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D-Iivil	alterego, justo be sure, can you also send me the .so file built by you so I can try that also if mine won't work?	17:26
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alterego	Sure	17:27
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alterego	D-Iivil: http://alterego.metapath.org/libplastictheme-cploader.so	17:29
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D-Iivil	alterego, thanks :)	17:29
alterego	np	17:30
kwtm	X-Fade: Hey, you said you installed all sorts of "dodgy software" and your n900 never went into infinite loop on bootup. You're using the 2010.19-1 firmware, right?	17:30
D-Iivil	will try those later this evening. Now I gotta feed the kids ->	17:30
X-Fade	kwtm: yes, of course.	17:30
kwtm	Ok, thx. Still downloading firmware.	17:31
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alterego	I've installed quite a lot of stuff and I've never had an infinite reboot ..	17:35
SpeedEvil	me too.	17:35
alterego	Strange how it seems to be the newbs that suffer that issue :)	17:36
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mgedmin	well, experienced users learned not to do things that lead to infinite reboots ;)	17:38
alterego	I guess so ..	17:39
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alterego	But all these users seem to think it's developers fault, 99% of the time it's "after I installed package X from extras"	17:39
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* noobmonk3y sits and waits for the abuse..........		17:43
* noobmonk3y prods frals		17:43
noobmonk3y	~ping	17:44
infobot	~pong	17:44
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rex1	Whats its better maemo or android	17:47
* noobmonk3y lols at the amount of ~seen noobmonk3y's in the logs, wooops, but gotta goto a meeting too!		17:47
* noobmonk3y prods frals on the way out... my first random push mms!!! - can see it's there, but wont download lol!		17:47
rex1	Anyone knows how i can install app in another mmc	17:48
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rex1	Because i dont have enough space	17:48
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kwtm	help! typing this with 1 hand. i am trying 2 flash. am holding down u key with other hand on n900. when i plug in usb cable, is it supposed to turn on?	17:49
kwtm	do i have 2 let go of u key first?	17:50
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noob_afk	kwtm: u should just work	17:53
noob_afk	hold down on turning it on, wait for symbol at top right, let go	17:53
SpeedEvil	rex1: What are you trying to install? It's saying you're out of space?	17:53
kwtm	noob_afk: Okay, that did not happen. When I plugged in USB cable, screen remained dark for 2 minutes.	17:54
kwtm	noob_afk: I removed battery, then put back in, and was able to get the dark screen. It seems to be flashing now.	17:54
X-Fade	kwtm: Pressed the powerbutton?	17:54
kwtm	It says flashed successfully. We will see what it does.	17:55
kwtm	X-Fade: tried that, too, but hard to hold down power button while keyboard is slid open so I can press U key,	17:55
X-Fade	kwtm: Try 2 hands?	17:55
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X-Fade	Or linux where you don't need to :)	17:55
kwtm	X-Fade: Well, that's what I ended up doing, so now I know that that did not work either. But removing the battery and replacing did.	17:55
crashanddie	Just bought a new bike :)	17:56
kwtm	Okay, this does not look hopeful. The flashing dots continue. I will let it go for another 15 minutes then I have to go to work.	17:56
X-Fade	kwtm: Did you see a progress bar on the screen while flashing?	17:56
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kwtm	X-Fade: Yes, I did, and the shell prompt says "CMT flashed successfully", so the flashing was successful.	17:57
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X-Fade	kwtm: Ok, then it might be your emmc which needs flashing.	17:57
kwtm	Question is: with the old or new firmware, what's keeping it from running properly? Checking the memory or something? Random bit flipped in the RAM or something? :P	17:57
ptmn	crashanddie: show it	17:58
crashanddie	ptmn: don't have it yet, it arrives early next week	17:58
kwtm	Okay, will read up on emmc. Is that just the RAM that acts like a RAM disk (the 25+ GB of space)?	17:58
alterego	Interresting, with fine accuracy my app is saying that horizontal accuracy is about 6k meters :o	17:58
X-Fade	No it is just flash storage. 32GB.	17:58
crashanddie	just a cheap 125cc bike, nothing fancy. Just happy I'm going to have two wheels again (my full bike licence was revoked three years ago)	17:58
* frals slaps noob_afk around a bit with a large trout		17:59
alterego	I don't think it's actually in meters ..	17:59
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* ptmn rides a 0cc bike		18:00
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ptmn	:3	18:00
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lcuk	kwtm, you could simply have found a serious bug in a single extras application.	18:00
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kwtm	X-Fade: It says "always flash the FIASCO image and then the eMMC without booting". What is the FIASCO image? Is that the firmware I just flashed?	18:01
X-Fade	More likely that his emmc got corrupted.	18:01
lcuk	we dont know off hand it will be interesting to see your app list and some stas from your mahcine (space available etc)	18:01
X-Fade	kwtm: yes, that is the firmware.	18:01
X-Fade	kwtm: But don't worry about that warning ;)	18:01
kwtm	lcuk: I believe we just heard from this group that "newbies always think it's the developer's fault that there's a bug." I'm going to let the rest of you figure it out.	18:01
kwtm	Me, I'll just continue to think that Nokia should have put a hardware reset.	18:01
X-Fade	kwtm: Where is the hardware reset on your PC or Mac?	18:02
SpeedEvil	hardware reset?	18:02
kwtm	x-fade: In the power button, where, upon reboot, the BIOS is not corrupted by changes in memory contents. But I was thinking more along the lines of a phone.	18:02
X-Fade	kwtm: It is not being sold as a phone.	18:03
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: Bullshit.	18:03
X-Fade	kwtm: A mobile computer, with phone capabilities ;)	18:03
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: It's being offered by several carriers as a phone.	18:03
kwtm	X-Fade: E.g. if I don't care that my n900 doesn't work properly but I need to make that phone call when I'm stranded in the middle of a deserted highway, then I should be able to at least get phone functionality.	18:03
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: And in many shops.	18:03
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: Sure, but nokia doesn't call that.	18:03
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: none of them say 'this is not a phone'.	18:03
SpeedEvil	Do they call any of their phones phones?	18:04
kwtm	Okay, I'll let the rest of you hash out whether the n900 should be used as a phone or not. I'm going to read up on emmc flashing. Thx.	18:04
X-Fade	Anyway, flashing both firmware and emmc will put it in factory default state.	18:04
alterego	kwtm: I was stating what I believed to be a rather accurate statistic that when users get into infinte reboots they automatically blame the last package they installed.	18:05
kwtm	When I downloaded the firmware labeled "2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin", does the "combined" mean I've also already downloaded eMMC? Or is that a separate download?	18:05
alterego	And I think I said 99% :P Which isn't everyone	18:05
alterego	kwtm: it's seperate	18:05
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X-Fade	kwtm: No, that is just old firmware.	18:05
kwtm	alterego: I'm not doubting you. But if there is anything you think I might be doing which I shouldn't, I'd love to hear it. My second n900 had tread very carefully, and yet the same error happened.	18:06
* alterego contemplates writing an app that integrates street view with GPS		18:06
SpeedEvil	alterego: You can't.	18:06
SpeedEvil	alterego: (legally)	18:06
alterego	Sort of like augmented reality, where the augmentation is actually looking back in time .. woo0000ooo	18:06
alterego	SpeedEvil: really? Why not?	18:06
SpeedEvil	alterego: The terms and conditions of streetview are basically that if you're really, really nice, and promise not to remember too much, you can look at it.	18:07
kwtm	SpeedEvil: alterego can't legally contemplate it? MUA HA HA Ha Ha ha ha ... here comes the thought police. :)	18:07
alterego	Well, how is this goign to make people "remember" ...	18:07
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alterego	They use street view on the android phone ..	18:07
SpeedEvil	alterego: You can't view the streetview content outside of the google service, can't download it, ...	18:07
alterego	phone/s	18:07
kwtm	Okay, I'm downloading the eMMC image and it says "1 hour 49 minutes remaining". I think I'll leave it to download while I go to work. :P	18:07
SpeedEvil	Outside of approved apps that is.	18:08
alterego	I know, I'll be using an embedded webkit with streetview being fed information from my app outside	18:08
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kwtm	X-Fade: When you said I can ignore the warning about rebooting between the FIASCO image and the eMMC image, does that mean I can try rebooting my n900 to see if the flashing worked? If I can get it working before I go to work, it means I can use the n900 for work.	18:08
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SpeedEvil	check the t&cs - they are nasty.	18:08
alterego	Meh, fuck 'em, they can sue me.	18:08
X-Fade	kwtm: That warning is only valid when you upgrade versions.	18:08
alterego	Then I'll ask them to hand over the wifi data they ripped out of my wifi as they were driving past.	18:09
X-Fade	kwtm: But as you are about to wipe your device, that doesn't matter.	18:09
kwtm	X-Fade: But I guess I was using the old maemo 5 --Oh, I see. It only applies if I was using Maemo 4?	18:09
X-Fade	kwtm: No.	18:09
crashanddie	ptmn: http://indianautosblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/2010-Honda-CBF125-white-and-black-1.jpg	18:09
kwtm	X-Fade: Oh, I see, the consequences of not following those instructions are just that the device gets wiped. So I don't need to care in my case, right?	18:09
X-Fade	kwtm: If you were using something older than 19-1	18:09
X-Fade	kwtm: Everything will be gone anyway.	18:10
lcuk	X-Fade, nope its not. kwtm do not bootup between flashing the main image and the emmc	18:10
kwtm	X-Fade: Okay, will try rebooting to see if this works. (I hate removing the battery cover --I have to struggle and sometimes it cuts into the skin under my nails)	18:10
lcuk	because if you then flash the emmc you will wipe the /opt	18:10
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lcuk	and be in the wrong state	18:10
X-Fade	lcuk: emmc was already 19-1	18:10
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kwtm	lcuk: Okay. Alright, to play it safe I'll just leave the n900 alone and use my <sigh> trusty if clunky Treo 650. :P	18:11
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kwtm	Thanks, guys.	18:11
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kwtm	Btw, what time zone are you in? I don't seem to get as many responses in this IRC channel when I check it in my evenings (around 0:00 GMT)	18:11
kwtm	Everyone is dead at that time, I guess. Ozzies here, right?	18:12
crashanddie	kwtm: a lot of us are in BST/GMT+1	18:12
crashanddie	kwtm: I used to be in Oz, back in the old continent now, there's a handful of ausers	18:12
kwtm	Okay. Well, this is a more helpful crowd than whoever comes here at ... wait, I said 0000h GMT, but I probably should ahve said 0400h GMT.	18:12
lcuk	map of maemo people: http://pininthemap.com/maemo europe is the hotspot	18:12
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: ping?	18:13
BCMM	ok, they aren't acquiring all of it, but they are getting the certificate authority	18:15
BCMM	oh well, at least they aren't getting a root nameserver	18:16
X-Fade	BCMM: ?	18:16
Corsac	-ECHAN?	18:16
DocScrutinizer51	kwtm: you're using an old fiasko img. 2010... is the newest	18:16
BCMM	X-Fade: i would appear to have changed channel without noticing	18:16
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DocScrutinizer51	kwtm: you don't need to flash eMMC to upgrade	18:16
X-Fade	BCMM: Sounded interesting ;)	18:17
Venemo	hey all	18:17
BCMM	X-Fade: symantec acquiring verisign's security business	18:17
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Corsac	ouch	18:17
BCMM	X-Fade: as we say on Slashdot, whatcouldpossiblygowrong	18:18
X-Fade	BCMM: nutin...	18:18
DocScrutinizer51	kwtm: if you flash eMMC (the VANILLA img) then you MUST AVOID booting after eMMC flashing and you MUSTflash COMBINED after eMMC	18:18
Venemo	I have a package which should place a file into /etc/event.d/ on installation	18:18
Venemo	the file is in the .deb	18:18
Venemo	but it is not installed	18:18
Venemo	could anyone please help me finding out why?	18:18
DocScrutinizer51	kwtm: the wiki is pretty clear about that	18:18
DocScrutinizer51	~tell kwtm about flashing	18:19
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jacekowski	what's a version of BME in n8x0?	18:22
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: a totally different one, as the hw has nothing in common between N810 and N900	18:25
jacekowski	well it would be nice to compare	18:25
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: you REALLY want to know?	18:26
jacekowski	yep	18:26
DocScrutinizer	k, hold on	18:26
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kwtm	DocScrutinizer: Thank you for your advice. I wanted to clarify the advice I heard from another member of this channel who SEEMED to be saying that this advice no longer applied, so perhaps you could let the member in question know. Thanks.	18:31
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kwtm	Anyway, now firefox has crashed, so I'm going to restart my 2 hour download. :P	18:32
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DocScrutinizer	kwtm: should resume	18:33
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: sorry for delay, the friggin N810 decided to panic & reboot once more	18:36
alterego	How many channels does the N900 GPS have? 10?	18:36
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DocScrutinizer	I guess a lot more	18:37
alterego	I can't see it being any more than 12 ..	18:37
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: the definition of "channel" is somewhat fuzzy on GPS	18:40
jacekowski	well, how many sattelites can it track	18:41
alterego	DocScrutinizer: I didn't think it was that fuzzy, how many satellites can the inbuilt GPS on the N900 use simultaneously?	18:41
alterego	:)	18:41
alterego	I've got 5 right now.	18:41
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jacekowski	builtin	18:42
jacekowski	not inbuild	18:42
alterego	jacekowski: pedant	18:42
alterego	I said inbuilt	18:42
alterego	Nod inbuild	18:42
jacekowski	alterego: http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=365173&eventPage=3	18:42
alterego	s/Nod/not/	18:42
infobot	alterego meant: not inbuild	18:42
marmoute	alterego: not	18:42
jacekowski	hmmm	18:42
jacekowski	no	18:42
jacekowski	TI GPS5030	18:43
DocScrutinizer	there's a more meaningful defnition for GPS, and that's hardware corellator	18:43
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jacekowski	http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12028&contentId=4636	18:43
alterego	jacekowski: anyhow, inbuilt is fine, I don't see why you would even bother trying to correct me ..	18:43
alterego	Unless this is some stupid American thing.	18:43
jacekowski	builtin is only correct form in english	18:44
alterego	bull shit	18:44
alterego	Anyway ...	18:44
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: seems there's no TI GPS5030	18:46
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alterego	I didn't realize we got the Qt mobility API's in PR1.2 ...	18:47
alterego	sweeeeeeeeet	18:47
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flux	jacekowski, nevertheles, WrodNet recognizes the term, as a synonym for built-in (not that I'd have seen it before)	18:48
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mgedmin	synonyms are tricky; sometimes there are subtle shades of meaning	18:48
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_0x47	hey, my menu icon doesn't show up before rebooting, but I have the gtk-update-icon-cache... in the postinst script. in fact it doesn't even show up after updating the cache manually. it shows up after rebooting tho. what did i do wrong?	18:49
alterego	_0x47: probably nothing, it happens for every app I've installed ...	18:49
_0x47	but it doesn't happen to all the apps I've downloaded before?	18:50
_0x47	is it a SDK problem?	18:50
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jacekowski	flux: it's american	18:54
jacekowski	flux: it's not a proper english	18:54
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: i found it on ti website	18:54
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: with note that it's not for end users	18:54
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: just for big manufacturers	18:54
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: what?	18:55
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jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: that gps	18:55
DocScrutinizer	aah	18:55
jacekowski	hardware correlator i mean	18:55
jacekowski	corellator*	18:55
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jacekowski	anyways	18:55
jacekowski	bye	18:55
jacekowski	home time	18:55
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sar3th\|N900	hey, MyDocs is read-only after a crash (N900), anyone know how to fix?	19:03
Dialekt	damn i forgot my nickserv pass because it was stored in my keychain for years	19:04
Dialekt	how can i retain it?	19:04
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frals	/msg nickserv help i recon	19:05
flux	sar3th\|n900, you could run fat repairing tools from a PC on it	19:06
flux	sar3th\|n900, or you could unmount it in n900 and run fsck.vfat on it	19:06
sar3th\|N900	ok flux, ty, i will try that	19:06
sar3th\|N900	will xchat crash when i unmount it? lol	19:06
flux	unlikely	19:07
flux	it might refuse to unmount if there are open files there, though	19:07
sar3th\|N900	k	19:07
flux	if that's the case, lsof should help you find the processes that have those	19:07
sar3th\|N900	it worked :)	19:07
sar3th\|N900	now running fsck.vfat	19:07
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flux	oh right, and as always, keep backups of your data 8-)	19:08
sar3th\|N900	"FATs differ but appear to be intact. Use which FAT ?"	19:08
flux	difficult questions, yes..	19:09
sar3th\|N900	:/	19:09
flux	if you aren't too worried about the data, I suppose it doesn't matter	19:09
sar3th\|N900	i will remount it l8tr then and backup anything which is still readable	19:09
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sar3th\|N900	i'd hate to loose this weekend's photos	19:09
flux	you could probably abort the fsck and do it right now (even if it is read-only)	19:10
flux	(infact, you should possibly ensure it is read-only when you mount it :-))	19:10
sar3th\|N900	yes, i figured, but i don't have a pc at hand	19:10
flux	send them to your email :)	19:10
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D-Iivil	alterego, ping	19:11
sar3th\|N900	it will be faster to wait 1h till i am home, cos its so much ;) but ty for the suggestion	19:11
flux	good luck	19:11
sar3th\|N900	thanks :)	19:12
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wazd	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/hildon-theme-marina/1.200/ <- feel free to test :)	19:18
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D-Iivil	wazd, will test right away :)	19:19
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wazd	D-Iivil: you can probably wait for 1.201 or just ignore lockscreen bug :)	19:20
D-Iivil	wazd, what bug is there?	19:20
wazd	D-Iivil: wrong wallpaper :)	19:21
D-Iivil	(I'm on 2G connection so it will take some time to download the package...)	19:21
D-Iivil	wazd, heh, shit happens :P Any plans for new themes btw?	19:22
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wazd	D-Iivil: I have plans but don't have much time :(	19:22
D-Iivil	wazd, really liked Marina theme coz it was Solarion "finished" in all areas.	19:22
D-Iivil	ups	19:22
D-Iivil	autocomplete beat :P	19:22
wazd	D-Iivil: well, now it's even more finished :)	19:23
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D-Iivil	yep :)	19:23
wazd	D-Iivil: I think I've fixed all bugs (except for "gear" one, that won't be fixed) :)	19:23
D-Iivil	43 percent done...	19:24
D-Iivil	btw, are you using photoshop or what?	19:24
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wazd	D-Iivil: yep	19:28
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D-Iivil	wazd, Bug: your theme is names as "my example theme" in the list where you select the theme ;)	19:30
D-Iivil	named, not names...	19:30
D-Iivil	new virtual keyboard looks nice.	19:31
wazd	D-Iivil: yeah, actually I don't know what's wrong with that since control looks just fine	19:33
wazd	also forgot to change painted text color	19:33
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wazd	but now, penalties!	19:34
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wazd	good luck Japan	19:34
D-Iivil	wazd, it is not control file what is used for that	19:34
D-Iivil	run the .sh script again and remember to type in theme name.	19:34
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wazd	aw, fucking ninjas :(	19:42
lcuk	wazd :( ninjas got your family again?	19:43
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sar3th\|N900	bbl	19:47
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an0therb0x	is ovi store working for the N900 ?	19:53
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wazd	no, seriously, that changelog bug is not normal	20:04
wazd	I even tried Dreamweaver and it "corrupts" it too	20:04
lcuk	wazd libraries on windows do the same all over - and yes it is corruption, it can also be the mechanism you are using to copy files	20:07
lcuk	winscp has options to automagically translate	20:07
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wazd	lcuk: so using FTP client to edit text file is normal nowadays? :)	20:10
* DocScrutinizer mumbles UTF-8, UTF-16, cp4711, IBM850, ISO8859-1...		20:11
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wazd	it's like using columbia shuttle to travel to the grocery	20:12
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lcuk	wazd - tomatoes grown in zeroG are delicious!	20:12
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SpeedEvil	Not much good if you prefer them raw, not roasted though.	20:13
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D-Iivil	how difficult it can sometimes be to get two under four years old to fall asleep...	20:45
vldcnst	D-Iivil: http://artoftrolling.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/babyliqour_wm.png	20:46
lcuk	D-Iivil, kiddy valium	20:46
mortini	baseball bat.	20:48
lcuk	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_sjsz2cKFE	20:48
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D-Iivil	especially when they are already tired... they go just grazy and I'm trying to compile a god damn small piece of software nearby...	20:48
lcuk	heya konttori \o	20:48
konttori	hi	20:48
konttori	sup?	20:48
lcuk	D-Iivil, get them involved with compilation	20:48
lcuk	give em a laptop and gentoo	20:48
lcuk	konttori, just chilling after tea :)	20:49
lcuk	hows your hacking going?	20:49
konttori	no much hacking. Well, I did some qml particle effects last week	20:50
konttori	but nothing much. harmattan taking every ounce of my energy for the past month or so	20:50
konttori	looks like we are on the winning end of the battle though	20:50
lcuk	sure	20:50
D-Iivil	vldcnst, LOL that story and images :D	20:51
frals	:)	20:51
RST38h	mooo lcuk, konttori, frals	20:51
frals	EHLO RST38h o/	20:51
konttori	lcuk: have you made any home screen live wallpapers?	20:51
konttori	would be nice to install some	20:51
lcuk	konttori, ive managed somethings too - w00t_ and a few other guys from collabora have been hacking some things together on liqbase and cleaning up things	20:52
konttori	oh, cool	20:52
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lcuk	yeah it would, ive not done much in rgb yet - ive heard theres some nice ogl wallpapers around somewhere though :)	20:52
inz	frals, you're supposed to identify yourself in EHLO, not the other party.	20:52
lcuk	g\o RST38h	20:52
* w00t_ waves at konttori :)		20:53
lcuk	konttori, silly video http://liqbase.net/20100626_005.mp4	20:53
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konttori	lcuk: sweet	20:54
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konttori	lcuk: where are the ogl wallpapers?	20:55
konttori	the video looked pretty smooth. anything else your gallery does?	20:55
lcuk	i dunno	20:55
lcuk	yeah, plenty :p	20:55
lcuk	w00t_ brought the x86 branch back to life too :)	20:56
lcuk	with that rotation stuff its letting me bring the bookreader back - ive been reading in portrait with same kinetics and smoothness i normally have	20:58
lcuk	(reading in landscape on 900 was a bit cramped, but it comes back amazingly so in portrait :)	20:59
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D-Iivil	alterego, ping	21:02
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alterego	D-Iivil: pong	21:03
SpeedEvil	I personally don't see the point of smoothness.	21:03
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SpeedEvil	At least for books. It's easier to read if it's static, and you just flip pages.	21:04
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D-Iivil	alterego, don't know what's wrong but when I use the .so file built by you it's working. If I build the file myself it won't work :D	21:05
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D-Iivil	alterego, so it must be something to do with buildin @ scratchbox	21:05
Zucca	How do I know if I have uprgaded my N900 to PR1.2?	21:05
alterego	Hrm, D-Iivil what target are you using?#	21:05
SpeedEvil	Zucca: Settings -> about	21:06
D-Iivil	alterego, the sme I use for theme building: FREA	21:06
D-Iivil	oops	21:06
alterego	:)	21:06
D-Iivil	alterego, fremantle_x86	21:06
alterego	;)	21:06
D-Iivil	(damn these tiny buttons)	21:06
Zucca	SpeedEvil: http://omploader.org/vNHM5dg/About_N900.jpg	21:07
SpeedEvil	10.2010 is 1.2	21:08
lcuk	konttori, are you watching th eworld cup	21:08
SpeedEvil	Also - there are some fun things you can do with peoples IMEIs	21:08
alterego	Zucca: you probably don't want to be pasting that info about ..	21:08
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_0x471	ls -lah	22:21
ShadowJK	what's adcin2 connected to?	22:21
_0x471	damn it	22:21
flailingmonkey	pcgeek: i think the wiki might actually have something about repartitioning, and it might cover camera	22:21
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pcgeek	Ive been on the wiki	22:22
timeless_mbp	drwxr-xr-x 29 timeless users 4.0K 2010-06-09 03:55 ./	22:22
timeless_mbp	drwxr-xr-x 68 root root 4.0K 2010-05-31 13:28 ../	22:22
timeless_mbp	:)	22:22
jacekowski	ShadowJK: it's named ECI_AD, and it's connected to IN+ on something that looks like opamp	22:22
jacekowski	ShadowJK: and	22:23
ShadowJK	oh it goes to BSI probably	22:23
jacekowski	ShadowJK: one input on analogue switch	22:23
jacekowski	nah, bsi is connected to ADCIN4	22:23
ShadowJK	hm	22:23
jacekowski	and ECI_AD is connected to "Microphone Interface" as well	22:23
pcgeek	Has anyone here re flashed the N900 to the previous firmware as if skype video calling is not bug free, I dont really need this update	22:23
jacekowski	to Mic2p	22:23
N900evil	jacekowski: headset button?	22:24
jacekowski	but that's strange	22:24
jacekowski	as BME is reading that	22:24
N900evil	oh	22:24
jacekowski	why would bme be interested in something like that	22:24
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ShadowJK	Coincidentally pulseaudio talks to bme	22:25
jacekowski	WTF???	22:25
jacekowski	are you sure?	22:25
pcgeek	who me	22:25
jacekowski	do we pulseaudio source code	22:26
jacekowski	i mean nokia version of it	22:26
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ShadowJK	Check /proc/$(pidof pulseaudio)/maps for bme..	22:26
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ShadowJK	libbmeipc	22:27
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jacekowski	mhm	22:27
ShadowJK	Maybe bme reads state of headphone socket and passes it on to bme / rest of os	22:28
ShadowJK	on to pulseaudio*	22:28
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jacekowski	Nokia-N900-02-8:~# ldd /usr/bin/pulseaudio \| grep bme \| wc -l	22:28
jacekowski	0	22:28
jacekowski	it's not bme	22:28
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jacekowski	ehh	22:29
jacekowski	it's not pulseaudio	22:29
jacekowski	it's something else that PA depends on	22:29
jacekowski	but PA itself is not talking to bme	22:29
jacekowski	not directly at lease	22:29
ShadowJK	Maybe it dlopens it	22:29
jacekowski	very unlikely	22:29
ShadowJK	since pa has plugin design anyway	22:29
alterego	extremely unlikely.	22:30
ShadowJK	Well I'd ldd the Nokia pa plugins then? :)	22:30
jacekowski	[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > objdump -T /usr/bin/pulseaudio \| grep dlopen	22:31
jacekowski	0000d8c8 DF UND 00000074 GLIBC_2.4 dlopen	22:31
jacekowski	hmmmm	22:31
pcgeek	I have lost the wiki for paritioning the n900 anyone have the link	22:31
pcgeek	thanks	22:31
jacekowski	but that's probably for plugins	22:31
alterego	Yes, that is for plugins :P	22:32
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jacekowski	Nokia-N900-02-8:/proc/778# for i in `cat maps \| cut -c50- \| sort\| uniq`;do ldd $i\| grep bme >/dev/null; AA=$?; if [ $AA -eq 0 ]; then echo $i;fi;done 2>/dev/null	22:33
jacekowski	/usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/libnokia-common.so	22:33
jacekowski	/usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/module-nokia-music.so	22:33
jacekowski	/usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/module-nokia-record.so	22:33
jacekowski	/usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/module-nokia-voice.so	22:33
ShadowJK	grep bmeipc /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/*	22:33
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jacekowski	but why?	22:34
e-yes	dpkg -keyShowMeWhoDependsOn libbmeipc0 ?	22:35
ShadowJK	Maybe only one process can use twl4030 adc and bme was chosen to pass on headphone socket status	22:35
jacekowski	no	22:35
ShadowJK	and do the headphone/headset/tv detection	22:35
alterego	jacekowski: could it be because they all depend on libnokia-common?	22:35
e-yes	headset detection here - /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/headphone/*	22:36
jacekowski	alterego: then only libnokia-common would depend on libbmeipc	22:36
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jacekowski	would link with *	22:36
ShadowJK	e-yes: well it can distinguish between headphone and headset too	22:36
jacekowski	besides, it's from microphone	22:37
flailingmonkey	bme, the beast that never ends	22:37
jacekowski	not from headset	22:37
alterego	Heh	22:37
BCMM	flailingmonkey: no, "never" starts with "n", not "m"	22:37
alterego	bme (bastard management entitiy)	22:37
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ShadowJK	Well presence of a microphone on the fourth pin would make it a headset rather than headphone :P	22:38
jacekowski	headmicrophone	22:38
e-yes	it's all done in kernel, in nokia-av	22:38
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ShadowJK	hm	22:38
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alterego	I'm quite liking GLSL	22:41
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alterego	In some ways, though it's a bit of a head fuck, having to manually program everything yourself.	22:41
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eitama_	Hello guys, I need help - I implement a dbus service in my app, to allow opening it via dbus, the dbus works great, but if the app is already hidden, and I click the icon, the app is not shown.	22:43
alterego	You need to look into 'top_application' in osso I believe.	22:44
eitama_	hmmm	22:44
flailingmonkey	BCMM: it isn't an m, it's an n that just never stopped	22:45
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eitama_	thanks alterego	22:46
eitama_	you helped me lots!	22:47
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alterego	eitama_: no problem :)	22:49
eitama_	WOW	22:50
eitama_	it worked	22:50
eitama_	kinda stupid, the method's name HAS to be top_application()	22:50
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sar3th	flux: i ran fsck.vfat, but in the end, it said "Leaving filesystems unchanged", what did i do wrong?	23:13
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e-yes	jacekowski, ShadowJK, guyz, it looks like you have rx51 schematic that I can trust. what is file name?	23:22
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SpeedEvil	e-yes: see the wiki	23:23
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic	23:24
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e-yes	SpeedEvil, thanks	23:26
SpeedEvil	np	23:26
SpeedEvil	see also [[Category:N900 Hardware]]	23:26
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e-yes	i saw other files over internet, like RX51_Schematics_v2_0 etc. that's why I asking;)	23:27
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SpeedEvil	The above schematic has not been found to be inaccurate.	23:39
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jacekowski	e-yes: jacekowski.org/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf	23:46
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mece	evenin	23:51
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pyther24	Hello	23:55
pyther24	Is there anyway to get the alarm to continuously play until I press stop?	23:56
pyther24	Currently it plays twice and then "auto-snoozes"	23:56
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asj__	pyther24: write your own alarm? ;)	23:56
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pyther24	asj__, is that the only way?	23:57
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hardaker	pyther24: no, you can ask asj__ to write an alarm for you too. :-P	23:59
pyther24	Is the alarm source publicly available? And if so where?	23:59

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