IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-06-10

mmarc__	Maybe it is turned off due to licence violation?	00:00
mmarc__	I mean it appears it is not personal...	00:00
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: less noise, less noobs, much more time to do real work	00:01
mmarc__	well, 4 google pages with same token	00:01
lcuk	mmarc__, get a new token then, not end of world	00:01
lcuk	if thats your hunch, follow it	00:01
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: ^^	00:01
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: (except for me, as I need to moderate the ML now ;-P)	00:02
mmarc__	sure, but could it be the reason of package lookup fail?	00:02
Shapeshifter	;)	00:02
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lcuk	mmarc__, dunno right now, but id rather you stopped worrying about it and got on with you coding	00:03
DocScrutinizer	but honestly, the recent "hype" and noise about hostmode didn't exactly help	00:03
lcuk	so if you feel a new key might be the reason, change it	00:03
mmarc__	lcuk: I'd love to go on, but I need gles development headers :)	00:03
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mmarc__	My worries are completely about getting the binaries repo working.	00:04
lcuk	yup	00:04
lcuk	so grab a new token and try again	00:04
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lcuk	does apt-cache not come back with anything	00:05
lcuk	at all	00:05
mmarc__	lcuk: you gonna laugh, but http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/token.php gives exactly the same token	00:06
mmarc__	5 times same, non-dependent on input numbers	00:07
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lucent	might it be your browser cache?	00:08
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mmarc__	so I'm guessing it should not be an issue eigher it is an issue for everybody	00:08
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lucent	i.e. check cookies etc.	00:08
mmarc__	lucent: heh, no, tried both chrome and firefox - same token always	00:09
lucent	mmarc__: well that's the process. You can wade through the repos manually to get the deb you need, I have done it but right now I don't feel as though I could remember what I did to share with you	00:10
mmarc__	thanks, lucent, I appreciate your help anyway	00:11
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lucent	when I'm viewing package details from maemo.org search say... "keepass" -> GO ; is there a link back to garage to file a bug ticket?	00:12
lucent	I am not seeing any	00:12
lucent	http://maemo.org/packages/view/keepassx/ is where I'm at	00:12
SpeedEvil	Stuff in devel does not need a bugtracker	00:13
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SpeedEvil	only if it's promoted to testing	00:13
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SpeedEvil	(and it's a blocker if it's not got one from going into extras)	00:14
SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/profile/view/redatim/	00:14
SpeedEvil	Observe! An email address.	00:14
SpeedEvil	Also - was it you that was asking about old versions	00:14
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ohwhyme	meepmeep	00:16
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lucent	SpeedEvil: yes	00:16
lucent	well, no	00:16
lucent	but I could be if that is helpful :)	00:17
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SpeedEvil	lucent: naah. I was just going to point out the earlier version links on that page	00:18
SpeedEvil	Or not, as it happens	00:19
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lucent	SpeedEvil: earlier version was usable, if dated	00:22
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lucent	I know and understand the state of development, now, looks like the port dev is waiting on upstream	00:22
mmarc__	aggrrrrr, evil vim! I wonder ho you guys live without mc	00:22
SpeedEvil	there was someone else in here earlier looking to revert the version of keepasx	00:22
SpeedEvil	pass	00:23
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BCMM_	mmarc__: amazingly, i am too sleepy for an editor war on IRC	00:25
BCMM_	perhaps i am ill	00:25
mmarc__	BCMM_ :-P	00:25
* BCMM_ hugs vim		00:25
* mmarc__ worst nightmares: 1) vim 2) nano		00:26
* SpeedEvil has been scrwing with the mixers.		00:26
SpeedEvil	My n900 is now emitting a quiet tick.	00:26
SpeedEvil	For no reason I can ascertain.	00:26
lucent	that's not good	00:26
lucent	mixers can be set such that it fries your N900's electronics	00:26
lucent	be careful!	00:26
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BCMM_	SpeedEvil: perhaps it is that noise that plays over FM when the transmitter is on but nothing is playing	00:28
BCMM_	SpeedEvil: and you've caused it to come out of the speakers too	00:28
BCMM_	i can't remember if that is a tick or a beep	00:28
BCMM_	i presume it exists to help you tune a radio to it	00:28
BCMM_	lucent: you can kill the phone with alsamixer?	00:29
BCMM_	talking of mixers, is there a graphical application to allow audio to come out of the headphones port and the phone speakers at teh same time?	00:29
lucent	BCMM_: yes.	00:29
MohammadAG	lucent, SpeedEvil knows his sh*t :)	00:29
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BCMM_	i have found it is possible with alsamixer	00:29
MohammadAG	BCMM_, how?	00:30
BCMM_	but am disinclined to fry anything	00:30
BCMM_	lucent: that is kind of bad...	00:30
lucent	BCMM_: I wrote a script to flip between external and internal audio	00:30
BCMM_	MohammadAG: i can't remember exactly, and now i've heard that alsamixer is dangerous, i don't think i'll try to reproduce it	00:30
lucent	my wording is wrong there, but it does what you say	00:30
BCMM_	MohammadAG: it is not entirely simple	00:30
MohammadAG	BCMM_, I doubt it's dangerous...	00:31
BCMM_	MohammadAG: there are various switches and multiple mixers	00:31
BCMM_	MohammadAG: well, i kinda poked stuff till it worked	00:31
MohammadAG	yes I know what alsamixer is	00:31
BCMM_	lucent: may i have it please? :)	00:31
BCMM_	MohammadAG: no, i mean various mixers and switches need to be changed	00:31
lucent	uhh	00:31
lucent	I need to find it	00:31
MohammadAG	BCMM_, ah, k	00:31
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BCMM_	MohammadAG: but basically i looked at alsamixer with something plugged in, then looked at it without something plugged in, then plugged something in again and turn on/up everything that was on/up without something plugged in	00:32
lucent	BCMM_: do you know any GUI programming that works on N900? I would like this to be a graphical app so we can run it and modify the volume levels etc	00:32
BCMM_	lucent: what do you mean by that?	00:32
lucent	well, an app	00:32
BCMM_	lucent: GTK and Qt work if that's what you mean	00:32
mmarc__	why apt-key add is not working with http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle/Release.gpg ? Says "gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found."	00:32
MohammadAG	ignore it	00:32
MohammadAG	https is disabled in the SDK	00:33
lucent	BCMM_: yes I don't know how to program those and am not a very good coder, I want this app though, can you code it if you find this interesting?	00:33
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BCMM_	lucent: i'm afraid i don't actually know GTK or Qt	00:33
BCMM_	lucent: i plan to learn Qt after my exam though	00:33
MohammadAG	GTK here :)	00:33
BCMM_	actually, that's pretty much teh sort of project i might try	00:33
MohammadAG	BCMM_, how old are you?	00:33
lucent	BCMM_: great!	00:34
BCMM_	MohammadAG: 21, studying for BSc physics	00:34
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MohammadAG	:)	00:34
BCMM_	lucent: you can't get past a certain level in a language without a project, know what i mean?	00:35
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MohammadAG	yeah, you keep going in a loop :P	00:35
BCMM_	well, it's like that for me, anyway	00:35
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MohammadAG	I stopped reading my C++ book a year ago	00:35
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MohammadAG	at page 50	00:35
MohammadAG	got bored with it	00:35
BCMM_	at a certain point, exercises are dull and one needs an itch to scratch	00:35
lucent	how do I see my /home/user when N900 is mounted as storage device on host system?	00:36
lucent	I don't remember how everything is mapped	00:36
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BCMM_	lucent: i don't believe you can	00:36
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lucent	oh okay so copy to MyDocs and get to it by .documents then?	00:36
BCMM_	lucent: /home/user/MyDocs is a seperate partition, and that is what gets mounted by the USB host	00:37
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BCMM_	lucent: is your PC a linux box?	00:37
lucent	yes it is	00:37
BCMM_	lucent: ssh may be easiest	00:37
lucent	oh... man this is confusing, I hardly ever do this	00:37
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BCMM_	lucent: do you by any chance have kde or gnome?	00:37
lucent	Ubuntu so yes gnome	00:37
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BCMM_	lucent: konqueror can treat an ssh server as a filesystem using fish://<user>@<ip address>/path	00:38
BCMM_	lucent: i think gnome has something that does that too	00:38
SplasPood	'lo all. Question: Did the fremantle SDK vmware images move somewhere? All the links seem to point to a place lacking the actual images..	00:38
mmarc__	I see freeglut in extras repos on web, fortunately I have eyes, while apt repos seems to be blind. I'm a happy N900 owner, but really upset that config is so buggy :(	00:38
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lucent	thanks BCMM_ I'll post the script as a nopaste shortly	00:39
BCMM_	lucent: i'll take a look at it about a week	00:40
BCMM_	hmm	00:40
BCMM_	does maemo come with Qt now, or does it get pulled in when you first install a Qt app?	00:41
lucent	PR1.2 includes Qt	00:41
lucent	I think	00:41
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lucent	anyhow you would want to check out the Maemo5 developer guide and Qt	00:42
lucent	the future is with Qt and PR1.2 maemo, or even meego	00:42
BCMM_	yeah	00:42
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BCMM_	the other reason i want to learn Qt is that i use KDE	00:42
BCMM_	of course, i'll need to know c++...	00:43
BCMM_	i presume knowing some C is a start	00:43
lucent	the concepts in C++ that use additional keywording are more cerebral than anything	00:44
BCMM_	?	00:44
lucent	I mean by that, there's no novel use of brackets or what until C++0x	00:44
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lucent	it's just like C, except you get to do some funny things to make the compiler do your work for you	00:44
lucent	additionally there's concepts you can implement which were not reasonable to do with straight C99	00:45
t_s_o	i once encountered a statement saying that the majority of C++ coders wrote C code	00:45
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lucent	that's probably the 1990's mentality of C++, I am guessing	00:46
BCMM_	t_s_o: as in, also wrote C code, or were writing C++ code that didnt' actually need to be C++?	00:46
lucent	write C, use // comments == c++	00:46
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t_s_o	BCMM_: wrote code that didnt make use of what C++ added to C, iirc	00:46
BCMM_	i already use //, gcc doesn't mind	00:46
timeless_mbp	isn't // valid in c99?	00:46
johnsq	its c99	00:47
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BCMM_	timeless_mbp: that might be why gcc doesn't mind	00:47
timeless_mbp	BCMM_: no	00:47
timeless_mbp	gcc doesn't mind because it's gcc	00:47
lucent	c99 is not fully implemented	00:47
BCMM_	i might've had to tell it not to mind	00:47
lucent	I mean c99 is not fully implemented by gcc	00:47
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BCMM_	t_s_o: that sort of code can be made into C quite trivially, right?	00:48
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BCMM_	t_s_o: or do you mean using classes, but ineffectively?	00:48
t_s_o	BCMM_: probably, been a while and i dont think the statement was expanded upon much	00:48
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lucent	agh, stuff it, just going to use a web browser from my N900 to post this script	00:49
lucent	N900 does not "-o bind" the exported volumes to host laptop	00:50
lucent	so I've been copying files to unmounted mount points	00:50
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lucent	that'd be why they don't appear!	00:50
lcuk	its hard to take an app written in a functional language and convert it to full object oriented tree whilst retaining original form and utility	00:50
BCMM_	lucent: afaik, the n900 quite simply unmounts MyDocs, and then allows the host to mount it using MSC	00:51
lcuk	so lots of apps just brute force the syntax of whatever and make an app that doesnt care whether its written in c c++ visual basic or python or something	00:51
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lucent	BCMM_: yep I missed that initially.	00:51
BCMM_	lucent: MSC doesn't allow clever stuff like that, it literally presents a block device to the host	00:51
timeless_mbp	lucent: so..	00:52
BCMM_	lucent: for something the size of a script, just scp it	00:52
pigeon	hmm has chromium disappeared from the repo?	00:52
timeless_mbp	mass storage is such that the owner of the storage can perform arbitrary writes/reads	00:52
timeless_mbp	you can't have two systems trying to read / write to a filesystem where both think they own it	00:52
BCMM_	offtopic: i have here a little USB gadget that horribly abuses USB MSC	00:53
lucent	curious how "Safely Remove Drive" from Ubuntu on the N900 results in an error message always	00:53
SpeedEvil	chromium 5.0.369.2-maemo4Fremantle Extras-devel free armelPackage has been removedNiels Breet2010-06-07 09:40 UTC	00:53
SpeedEvil	pigeon:	00:53
BCMM_	lucent: what errors?	00:53
BCMM_	i have a problem with that on KDE actually	00:53
lucent	1 sec	00:53
lucent	"Unable to stop Nokia N900"	00:54
pigeon	SpeedEvil: oh...	00:54
SpeedEvil	xfade killed it for some reason.	00:54
BCMM_	kio_thumbnail (which generates thumbnails for kde file managers) starts reading the n900, then dies (on a movie i think)	00:54
BCMM_	always have to manually kill it to unmount	00:54
BCMM_	lucent: probably something still trying to read it	00:54
lucent	"Error detaching: helper exited with exit code 1: Detaching device /dev/sdc" / "USB device: /sys/devices/blah/blah/blah/usb2/2-3)" / "SYNCHRONIZE CACHE: OK" / "STOP UNIT: FAILED: No such file or directory"	00:54
lcuk	isnt that a bit storage hostile?	00:54
BCMM_	lucent: do you have a shell open that is cd'd to the n900?	00:54
BCMM_	lucent: fuser -m /media/Nokia\ N900	00:55
lcuk	ffs left side of mouth hurtsa	00:55
BCMM_	lcuk: isn't what storage hostile?	00:55
pigeon	SpeedEvil: where did you find that information btw? is that a repo log or something?	00:55
lucent	BCMM_: only happens with Nokia N900, never a usb stick	00:55
BCMM_	lucent: does fuser show anything?	00:56
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lucent	nope	00:56
* SplasPood gives up looking for the vmware SDK images		00:57
lucent	BCMM_: the telltale sign is that "Unmount" works while "Safetly Remove Device" triggers the error message	00:58
BCMM_	lucent: what is the difference?	00:58
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lucent	S.R.D. powers off most usb storage devices after unmounting	00:58
lucent	I think	00:58
lcuk	BCMM_, hard scanning large media files on insertion	00:58
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BCMM_	lcuk: and what do you mean by "storage-hostile"?	00:59
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BCMM_	lcuk: oh, strictly it may only have happened when i've opened .videos	01:00
lcuk	BCMM_, you said it might be getting stuck on a video	01:00
BCMM_	lcuk: not stuck while still reading, just dead	01:00
lcuk	ubuntu only scans thumbnails for local files < 10mb	01:01
lcuk	ahhh borked reader	01:01
BCMM_	lcuk: in kde it's configurable, and i've set it high	01:01
BCMM_	lcuk: anyway, practically the only reason i connect as MSC is to move videos	01:01
BCMM_	for small files, fish is more convinient	01:01
mmarc__	guys, could you please help to locate the correct url for maemo sdk repo? I tried "http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle sdk/free sdk/non-free" but it appears to be wrong. How can I produce correct paths myself? Any guides around or again guess, guess and guess yourself?..	01:01
BCMM_	although actually i haven't been able to use SSH keys since flashing 1.2. anybody know anything about that?	01:02
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lcuk	mmarc__, http://repository.maemo.org/	01:02
lucent	on that topic of strange things after PR1.2 :	01:03
lucent	AdBlockPlus is installed but does not seem to work?	01:03
lucent	ideas?	01:03
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mmarc__	lcuk, ok, and what? I'm looking for a correct sdk path repos to submit to apt/sources.list...	01:03
lcuk	BCMM_, i have ssh keys working	01:03
BCMM_	lcuk: did 1.2 overwrite sshd_config?	01:04
BCMM_	perhaps i just missed something while checking it afterwards	01:04
lcuk	mmarc__, learn to read :) they are listed even in the nice "deb ...." syntax	01:04
timeless_mbp	BCMM_: hrm	01:04
lcuk	BCMM_, i dunnno i reflash quite often tho	01:04
BCMM_	mmarc__: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras	01:04
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BCMM_	lcuk: how come?	01:04
timeless_mbp	BCMM_: works for me	01:05
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timeless_mbp	BCMM_: ssh -v -v -v should be your friend	01:05
BCMM_	well, i guess i've typod in the config file then	01:05
lcuk	BCMM_, i dunno, i just shrug and use password once to copy key over	01:05
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BCMM_	timeless_mbp: thanks, didn't know it went quite taht verbose	01:05
mmarc__	lcuk: I've learned to read, also I hope I'm not completely stupid, and you don't think I am. I'm specifying "deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle sdk/free sdk/non-free" for apt sources list, but it says it's wrong: Couldn't stat source package list http://repository.maemo.org freemantle/sdk/non-free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_dists_freemantle_sdk_non-free_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory	01:07
mmarc__	)	01:07
mmarc__	And extras, BCMM_ is fine, my question is about the SDK repo	01:07
BCMM_	mmarc__: oh, sorry	01:07
timeless_mbp	mmarc__: did you do apt-get update ?	01:07
timeless_mbp	(and are you root?)	01:07
lcuk	mmarc__, did you go to the page i offered and read the contents	01:07
mmarc__	yep, this error is exactly fro aptt-get update	01:07
timeless_mbp	is non-free real?	01:07
lcuk	because theres a big section called:	01:08
lcuk	Repositories for Maemo SDKs	01:08
lcuk	These repositories are meant to be used with apt-get only within the SDK environment.	01:08
lcuk	and it lists them	01:08
timeless_mbp	hrm	01:08
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mmarc__	lcuk: so, am I understanding correctly that there is no sdk repository for Maemo 5.0 Fremantle?	01:09
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timeless_mbp	there's definitely a repository	01:10
mmarc__	then, where is it on that page, lcuk?	01:10
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mmarc__	listed only for diablo and older	01:10
* timeless_mbp was supposed to try indexing pr1.2		01:10
lcuk	mmarc__, im sorry, i cant help you unless you learn to read.	01:11
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* lcuk goes doing other more exciting things		01:11
* lcuk spits out blood		01:11
mmarc__	lcuk: sorry, what I suppose to read?	01:11
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SpeedEvil	I also did not find the sdk repository when looking on that page	01:11
mmarc__	this repo was working on my phone directly, and I remember it	01:11
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mmarc__	lcuk, could you please be so kind to tell, what to read...	01:12
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: what do you mean by didn't find?	01:12
lcuk	>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://repository.maemo.org/#sdk_repositories <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<	01:12
lcuk	you blind gits	01:12
mmarc__	AND???!!!	01:12
lcuk	that gives the correct urls	01:12
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mmarc__	Have you learned to click your mouse?	01:12
lcuk	because the ones you are trying is wrong	01:12
mmarc__	the question is that there is no sdk repo for freemantle there :)	01:13
SplasPood	ok, now tell me what to read to find the vmware SDK images ;)	01:13
SplasPood	mmarc__: err.. I see em there	01:13
mmarc__	deb http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo sdk/free sdk/non-free tools/free tools/non-free	01:13
SplasPood	Maemo 5.0 Fremantle (browse)	01:13
SplasPood	deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/sdk free non-free	01:13
SplasPood	etc...	01:13
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lcuk	sigh	01:14
mmarc__	so, that's exactly what I was typing to apt before	01:15
* MohammadAG facepalms		01:15
* lcuk troutfaces		01:15
mmarc__	lcuk: thanks, I was wrong, and thanks for teaching me to read!	01:16
SplasPood	Awesome... now... does anyone know wtf happened to the SDK vmware images? ;) (promise, that'll be the last time I repeat)	01:17
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lcuk	SplasPood, i believe theres a whole new set of them	01:17
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lcuk	i saw something listing them very recently	01:17
lcuk	pr1.2 ones too	01:17
SplasPood	lcuk: the links are there, but the listing they then show doesn't contain any of em	01:17
SplasPood	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php	01:18
SplasPood	for example	01:18
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mmarc__	hm: no libglew on freemantle?	01:20
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SplasPood	lcuk: see what I mean?	01:20
SplasPood	lcuk: that was linked to from http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/	01:20
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BCMM_	lcuk: did you get a tooth pulled or something?	01:22
pigeon	hmm what's the command to launch microb, maybe giving a url as well, from the command line?	01:23
lcuk	SplasPood, just went hunting and you are right, the new one isnt there	01:24
SplasPood	lcuk: well, glad to know I'm not crazy, thanks for looking	01:24
lcuk	the announce said it was, and i didnt follow it, it just said a new one for 1.2	01:24
lcuk	but only there is the older one in the older releases link	01:24
SplasPood	yea, looks like they ditched the old one and forgot to cp the new one in ;)	01:24
lcuk	yes BCMM_	01:24
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BCMM_	lcuk: gah, no fun at all	01:24
lcuk	and i cant concentrate on anything or go read a book or lie down or anything i want to do	01:25
SpeedEvil	lcuk: Find a source of 5-10VAC, around 10-50Hz. Wrap two stainless spoon-handles mostly with cling-film, and connect to source of power. Apply across sore gum area.	01:25
SpeedEvil	lcuk: This works really well.	01:25
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lcuk	ive got a tens machine	01:25
BCMM_	i don't think that's a good idea, but i can't think why	01:25
lcuk	but not for mouth	01:25
lcuk	BCMM_, it might be fun for a bit	01:25
SpeedEvil	http://www.skylarkdevice.com/sd_612dt.htm	01:26
BCMM_	meh, from having had mains shocks, 50Hz feels weird	01:26
SpeedEvil	lcuk: It's used in dentistry, and works really well.	01:26
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lcuk	yeah SpeedEvil i know how well tens works	01:26
BCMM_	(not enough of a shock to cause pain, must've been a fair bit of resistance other than me in the circuit)	01:26
SpeedEvil	lcuk: I went from 'ow - these painkillers are not touching it' to 'hmm - gum feels odd.'	01:26
lcuk	tho first time i ever used one, i was left for a couple of hours	01:26
lcuk	and i couldnt feel my feet for a while lol	01:27
lcuk	its not sore, it just gets me if i laugh	01:27
lcuk	i darent move it also ;)	01:27
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BCMM_	what does tens do? just confuse nerves into being quiet?	01:27
SpeedEvil	BCMM_: basically	01:28
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mmarc__	Scratchbox won't start GUI and forward it to Xephyr display, here's the message log: "http://pastebin.com/RUFebPsn" - are the invocation command correct there?	01:33
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mmarc__	I used the sequence: export DISPLAY=:2 and af-sb-init.sh start	01:34
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BBaxter	Is there a way to edit the autocomplete dictionary?	01:36
pigeon	has anyone tried to install pelota-widget?	01:36
mmarc__	Also "Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -kb &" complains about "Unrecognized option: -kb" - Could it be a 10.04 issue?	01:38
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BBaxter	hmmm I can't access "Complete Browsing History". Pressing it does nothing.	01:54
asj	damn in pr1.2 it still looks like skype is a huge battery hog, started skype at 1pm, phone was drained by 11pm. idle phone, wifi only	01:54
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asj	odd though, light battery drain from 1pm->6pm, then it's like someone flushed the toilet and the phone went from 75% to 0% from 6pm->11	01:55
Aari	skype is a god damn battey	01:56
Aari	skype is a god dam battery hog	01:56
asj	which is too bad	01:57
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BBaxter	And I have a fresh flash of both fiasco & emmc 1.2 too	01:58
AariJaaksi	reflash the phone	01:58
asj	BBaxter: do you have any browsing history?	01:59
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BBaxter	yeah I clicked 5 consecutive links	01:59
AariJaaksi	that's strange	02:00
crashanddie	AariJaaksi: please change your name	02:00
lcuk	AariJaaksi, please do not impersonate individuals	02:00
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lcuk	lol crashanddie	02:00
crashanddie	:)	02:01
BBaxter	Is there a way to reinstall MicroB?	02:01
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AariJaaksi	i am not impersonating....why so serious?	02:01
BBaxter	I don't really use Complete Browsing History, but it's annoying that it's a problem after a reflash	02:01
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vldcnst	now the real Aari can't join.	02:03
* lcuk tries to think what i was going to do		02:03
crashanddie	lcuk: sleep	02:03
lcuk	vldcnst, sure he can	02:03
lcuk	his name is ari	02:03
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crashanddie	no, that's his first name	02:03
lcuk	cant crashanddie	02:03
vldcnst	(joke)	02:03
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lcuk	i tried lying down before	02:04
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wetknickers	better?	02:05
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N900boy	my battery went down fast today	02:10
N900boy	wondering why	02:11
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satmd	for me too, but here it was login problems with skype	02:11
satmd	it connected but timed out eventually... in a loop	02:12
asj	satmd: oh was there skype issues yesterday?	02:12
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satmd	I dunno the reason for it	02:12
N900boy	all this talk about battery better in 1.2 is bullshit talk	02:12
asj	N900boy: it's not	02:12
satmd	I just happened to sit in my coworkers office and trying to test video phoning	02:12
N900boy	1.2 did fuck all to my battery life	02:12
satmd	I was being displayed as offline/online switching all the time	02:12
asj	N900boy: run less crap	02:12
microlith	N900boy: what were you expecting, exactly?	02:13
lucent	"fucking magnets, how do they work?"	02:13
N900boy	asj: I'm not runnin crap	02:13
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* microlith finds a baseball bat to beat lucent with		02:13
crashanddie	you're talking it, though.	02:13
* satmd suggests powertop		02:13
lucent	microlith: a pelican ate your baseball bat, yo, it ran away	02:13
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mmarc__	oookay, my opengl apps are working in emulator thanks to sdk and great help of people here. Many of you are gone sleeping, but still thank you very much for helping me with numerous stupid issues! :)	02:19
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lucent	mmarc__: glad it's working for you now	02:24
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mmarc__	thanks, now I'm looking for correct command to login into arm sandbox. /scratchbox/login by default places me into x86	02:25
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mmarc__	sb-conf se FREEMANTLE_ARMEL says sb-conf: No such target: FREEMANTLE_ARMEL	02:27
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mmarc__	aha! sb-menu seems to do this job!	02:31
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crashanddie	mmarc__: because it's fremantle, not freemantle?	02:32
lucent	bollocks, I spaced out and forgot to send the script for speaker enable/disable	02:32
lucent	lawl @ freemantle - I've done that same thing	02:33
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mmarc__	lucent: heh, thanks, my bad habit too :)	02:35
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N900evil	ditto	02:35
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N900evil	hence the note on the wiki	02:35
mmarc__	but it now says "sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first" while this is definitely the only one session	02:35
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luke-jr	Stskeeps: after BME forces Gentoo to shutdown, I booted Maemo-- full battery	02:37
mmarc__	aha, used killall from sb-menu, and it's gone	02:37
luke-jr	Stskeeps: therefore, I assign high probability to BME thinking Gentoo is "charge-only mode"	02:37
crashanddie	mmarc__: every single question you're asking has been answered a gazillion times, please use google.	02:37
mmarc__	crashanddie, ok-ok, I'm using	02:38
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jacekowski	luke-jr: bme + gentoo?	02:40
jacekowski	luke-jr: and bme itself as far as i know doesn't shutdown anything	02:41
mmarc__	Is there an equvalent of _FPU_SINGLE/_FPU_DOUBLE on arm?	02:41
jacekowski	luke-jr: it sends info to dsme	02:41
SpeedEvil	mmarc__: neon?	02:41
jacekowski	vfp	02:41
* SpeedEvil has little clue.		02:41
mmarc__	what is neon?	02:41
MohammadAG	a gas	02:41
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jacekowski	MohammadAG: rtfm	02:41
jacekowski	not you	02:41
jacekowski	mmarc__: rtfm	02:41
jacekowski	mmarc__: but on arm it's done differently anyways	02:42
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mmarc__	could you please give more exact description?	02:43
jacekowski	RTFM	02:43
jacekowski	read the fucking manual	02:43
vldcnst	oh oh, the f word	02:43
mmarc__	ok, but where? neon is too common word	02:43
jacekowski	neon+arm	02:43
jacekowski	vfp+arm	02:43
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jacekowski	but you want vfp not neon	02:44
vldcnst	mmarc__: http://www.hellboundbloggers.com/guest-posts/how-to-use-google-smartly/	02:44
mmarc__	:))	02:44
vldcnst	sorry, mr. russian, couldn't help myself.	02:44
jacekowski	maemo is LE or BE?	02:44
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* nextime don't want meego...		02:47
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SpeedEvil	Google is annoying.	02:48
jacekowski	sleep time	02:48
SpeedEvil	Try to search for - for example - "at+cops=?"	02:48
jperez26	It can also be your friend :p	02:48
mmarc__	google is producing too much CO2 ;)	02:49
mmarc__	So, do I need -mfpu=neon ?	02:49
mmarc__	for gcc	02:49
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jperez26	This sucks. XChat hates me >:/	02:50
lucent	mmarc__: http://lmgtfy.com/?arm+neon	02:50
jperez26	Using Pidgin since XChat isn't playing nice	02:50
SpeedEvil	wfm.	02:50
* lucent fails		02:50
jacekowski	mmarc__: you need vfp not neon	02:50
jacekowski	mmarc__: neon is simd	02:50
jacekowski	mmarc__: vfp is for maths	02:51
lucent	http://lmgtfy.com/?q=arm+neon	02:51
jacekowski	mmarc__: and floating points	02:51
mmarc__	well, I got a similar feeling...	02:51
jacekowski	so	02:51
jacekowski	http://lmgtfy.com/?q=arm+vfp	02:51
MohammadAG51	hmm	02:51
MohammadAG51	terminal isn't starting	02:52
MohammadAG51	grrr	02:52
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jacekowski	MohammadAG: you fucked it up	02:52
mmarc__	cool, and can you simply state if vfp is available on maemo?	02:52
jacekowski	mmarc__: it is	02:52
MohammadAG51	jacekowski, how...	02:52
jacekowski	mmarc__: it's procesor feature	02:52
jacekowski	MohammadAG51: well, you did it	02:52
MohammadAG51	jacekowski, it's osso-xterm right?	02:52
mmarc__	cool, but I need some headers :)	02:52
jacekowski	MohammadAG51: so why you are asking me?	02:52
jacekowski	MohammadAG51: yes	02:52
mmarc__	to organize that evil FPU config	02:52
jacekowski	MohammadAG51: how are you starting it?	02:52
MohammadAG51	jacekowski, hmm, idk, to annoy you maybe	02:53
MohammadAG51	jacekowski, xterm icon	02:53
* MohammadAG51 starts it using xchat		02:53
MohammadAG51	k, it doesn't say anything	02:53
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jacekowski	well, i was thinking that you might be trying to start it over ssh or something	02:53
MohammadAG51	calls for a reboot, brb	02:53
MohammadAG51	it works over ssh	02:53
* MohammadAG51 reboots		02:54
jacekowski	i'm going to sleep	02:54
mmarc__	I thought _FPU_* stuff comes with gcc on x86	02:54
mmarc__	so, it appears on maemo's gcc it does not?	02:54
mmarc__	e.g. fpu_control.h	02:55
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jacekowski	there is no fpu on arm	02:55
jacekowski	there is vfp	02:55
mmarc__	right, but is it comming with gcc or separately?	02:56
vldcnst	will this ever end?	02:56
lucent	vldcnst: is end available in maemo?	02:57
vldcnst	lucent: exactly my point.	02:57
jacekowski	gcc doesn't support generating vfp code yet	02:57
jacekowski	well, it can generate it from inline assembly	02:57
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mmarc__	vldcnst: my stupidness is endless :-D	02:57
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mmarc__	hmm, jacekowski, it sound pretty unportable :(	02:58
jacekowski	try	02:58
jacekowski	gcc -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp	02:58
jacekowski	that would do the job	02:58
jacekowski	but FPU thingies are x86 specific	02:59
jacekowski	and don't exist on other platforms	02:59
mmarc__	and what's about _FPU_* equivalents? I guess I have to rewrite them somehow	02:59
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jacekowski	depends on _FPU thingy you ask for	02:59
jacekowski	mmarc__: what do you need	03:01
luke-jr	jacekowski: I don't know/care how BME shuts down, but BME is what triggers it...	03:01
luke-jr	jacekowski: vfp is a fpu	03:02
jacekowski	but it's not a same FPU as x86 fpu	03:02
jacekowski	it's like a lorry and a car	03:02
jacekowski	both have 4 wheels and engine	03:02
luke-jr	jacekowski: if GCC can't handle it, what is -mfp=vfp ?	03:02
luke-jr	x86 fpu != fpu	03:03
jacekowski	luke-jr: support for vfp instructions in assembly	03:03
luke-jr	GCC doesn't do assembly	03:03
mmarc__	jacekowski, well, I need to implement switching precision modes to 24, 53, 64, and rounding modes: chop, up, now and near. Also a switch to turn on/off FPU exceptions	03:03
jacekowski	it does	03:03
luke-jr	no, as does assembly	03:04
MohammadAG51	oi, go to bed	03:04
mmarc__	right, fpu also is simply some assembly	03:04
luke-jr	and doesn't require options to enable support for vfp	03:04
mmarc__	hm	03:04
jacekowski	luke-jr: it does	03:04
jacekowski	luke-jr: otherwise it will do it in software	03:04
luke-jr	jacekowski: 'man as' lists no such options	03:04
luke-jr	only 'man gcc'	03:05
luke-jr	and gcc doesn't do assembly, 'as' does	03:05
jacekowski	inline assembly	03:05
jacekowski	and gcc will fail if you have "unsupported" instructions in it	03:05
jacekowski	mmarc__: there is FPEXC register for exceptions	03:06
mmarc__	Any examples? I'm going to find some after some sleeeeep...	03:06
jacekowski	ARM programmers manual	03:06
mmarc__	:) ok	03:07
mmarc__	thanks!	03:07
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mmarc__	hmm, also there is a wierd thing: "Error: bad instruction `int $3'" that comes from random source files without explicit assembly code...	03:16
mmarc__	- a gcc error	03:16
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mmarc__	That's probably produced by assert, I think	03:17
mmarc__	int 3 is interrupt	03:17
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MOUD	Hey all	03:48
MOUD	Is it possible to run BB services on n900?	03:48
MohammadAG51	blackberry?	03:48
MOUD	yes	03:48
MohammadAG51	closed protocol, no	03:48
N900boy	dont think so	03:48
MOUD	so those r rumors then	03:49
N900boy	where did you see that?	03:49
MOUD	someone from work said that	03:50
MohammadAG51	heh	03:50
MOUD	what exactly is the problem for the BB services to run on n900?	03:50
asj	MOUD: RIM doesn't publish the protocol	03:50
MOUD	asj: I see	03:51
asj	MOUD: iow, they don't tell you how to talk to the BB server, BB client, nothing, for all we know it's BB Server <-- magic --> Phone	03:51
asj	MOUD: and that's how they sell phones, want the service buy the phone	03:52
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MOUD	asj: aham	03:52
nextime	in theory remain possibile with reverse eng., but considering how rim mail push work, it is better if noone porte it :)	03:52
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asj	nextime: I thought that involved an sms or something odd like that	03:53
lucent	well... KeePassX bug was closed as WONTFIX	03:53
nextime	asj: probably	03:53
lucent	I don't have the resources to fix the UI for Maemo5	03:54
nextime	asj: it is also relatively simple to do something like that, the main problem is that to be convenient need operators support	03:54
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MOUD	but... what is it that makes BB so popular and unique from other phones? (except the free msg to and from BBs)	03:54
asj	nextime: "back in the day" I'm guessing the bw savings vs real time performance made them jump all over it though	03:55
lucent	asj: I think the Zimbra project implements a BB server	03:55
nextime	asj: anyway, i was referring to the privacy complicance on put your email on a third party server if you can't pay for a rim-enabled private one	03:55
lucent	protocol info might be published, or might not	03:55
nextime	lucent : it implement it, but only in the non-open source part and with an agreement with rim	03:55
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lucent	MOUD: in the US it is often the case that Sprint as a carrier markets BB devices and plans to Businesses with lowest group rates	03:56
MOUD	lucent: I mean worldwide	03:56
lucent	yeah that I don't know	03:56
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nextime	MOUD : i can just say that here (italy) bb is popular couse is the only very cheap from long time way to have email on mobile	03:57
nextime	i also have a bb, but i'm trying to find a good rate to sobstitute it with my n900 and/or my android device...	03:59
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MOUD	nextime: aham	04:00
lucent	I suspect it's chicken-and-egg	04:00
lucent	carriers push BB to businesses	04:00
lucent	later in time, businesses know that other businesses use BB, that's what they want too	04:00
lucent	carriers keep using BB because all businesses want it	04:01
nextime	lucent : chickend and egg is more simple. Evolution say that the egg is born before.	04:01
nextime	:D	04:01
lucent	nextime: not in southern USA	04:01
nextime	lucent : creationists?	04:02
nextime	lucent : the answer is that creationists are in the evolution road before also the egg.	04:02
lucent	in the "Derp Souf" a vote passed to replace education text books with published accounts that are more favorable to creationism and the idea of National um... how do I say it without making it sound like Adolf Hitler? USA supremacy	04:03
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nextime	lucent : sadly i can't translate a phrase that the old people say here...	04:03
lucent	hmm... try	04:04
nextime	something like "the mother of the idiots is ever pregnant"	04:04
lucent	even a literal translation, it would be interesting to me?	04:04
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lucent	ha! yeah	04:04
lucent	that would be, the WHOLE united states right there	04:04
* nextime finally has compiled the new kernel!		04:05
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nextime	is there any light office application for maemo?	04:09
nextime	( a free one )	04:09
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ptl	I never understood something from Hildon Application Manager	04:11
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ptl	when it is up to update a bunch of packages, it asks for permission ("I understand" etc.) only for the first package	04:11
ptl	then proceeds updating every package, even the ones for which you didn't explicitly mark as Ok	04:12
ptl	IANAL but I think this way they cannot enforce any agreement on the user.	04:12
SpeedEvil	I submitted a bug for that	04:12
SpeedEvil	it was WONTFIXED	04:13
ptl	what was the justification?	04:13
pigeon	when does modest download attachments in e-mails?	04:13
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SpeedEvil	'meh - too hard'	04:13
SpeedEvil	Or something	04:13
nextime	ptl: i don't know the hildon app manager, but i suspect that it is a mere frontend on apt, so, on update, it is just like do an "apt-get upgrade"	04:13
ptl	ugh	04:13
nextime	so, it ask only one time for the whole upgrade	04:13
ptl	nextime: Yes, I know, but the point is about agreeing to the terms of the software package	04:13
SpeedEvil	More likley 'conforms to internal style guide' or something	04:14
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nextime	ouch, 3:14am here. Night guys.	04:14
ptl	good night	04:14
ptl	22:14 here	04:14
MohammadAG51	4:15 :P	04:15
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MohammadAG51	night nextime	04:15
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GAN900	nextime, not quite.	04:15
GAN900	nextime, its update logic is a little different.	04:16
SpeedEvil	bug 10262	04:16
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10262 Installing multiple apps at once - the disclaimer title is incorrect.	04:16
GAN900	nextime, so, no, it doesn't behave exactly like apt.	04:16
GAN900	SpeedEvil, "UI specifications" is the evil word you're looking for.	04:17
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SpeedEvil	yes, that	04:17
SpeedEvil	Are these public?	04:17
SpeedEvil	I assume not	04:17
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GAN900	No	04:18
GAN900	They're, like, thousands of pages long and really stupid apparently	04:19
GAN900	So it's probably just as well.	04:19
GAN900	I'm so fscking tired of hearing it as a justification	04:19
GAN900	"Well then it's a bug in the spec!!"	04:19
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tgalal	Hey I'm having a presentation tomorrow and would like to use something like BlueMaemo for slide transition. BlueMaemo is good but because right and left button are on the touchscreen, it's hard to press without having to look on the phone. Is there a way to use the volume keys for traversing presentation slides ???	04:20
* SpeedEvil ponders submitting a bug. 'One or more UI specification writers is clinically insane'.		04:20
SpeedEvil	DUPL, or WONTFIX?	04:21
GAN900	SpeedEvil, I think management is more to blame.	04:21
SpeedEvil	yeah	04:21
GAN900	They'll just ignore it	04:21
SpeedEvil	You can't sanely write a spec with no itneraction with users or coders.	04:22
GAN900	Or somebody will mark it INVALID	04:22
SpeedEvil	It needs to be a back and forth thing.	04:22
GAN900	Ehehe	04:22
GAN900	Yes you can	04:22
GAN900	It's Nokia	04:22
* GAN900 cries		04:22
SpeedEvil	:)	04:22
SpeedEvil	Well - there's always mer.	04:23
SpeedEvil	Or is it meego this week. :)	04:23
GAN900	Not really	04:23
GAN900	:P	04:23
GAN900	MeeGo, ugh.	04:23
SpeedEvil	It's a shame that more of what is actually open wasn't signposted early on.	04:23
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GAN900	Yeah	04:24
SpeedEvil	It's easy to assume without thinking hard - and I did - that hildon must be closed.	04:24
GAN900	Nokia sucks at advertising their own strengths.	04:24
SpeedEvil	And some bits of it are - true	04:24
SpeedEvil	But much isn't	04:24
SpeedEvil	And modest, ... isn't.	04:24
GAN900	and so many of us have been around so long we've lost perspective	04:24
SpeedEvil	yeah	04:24
GAN900	Easy to assume	04:24
SpeedEvil	Even microb isn't - though I can't seem to find sources for that.	04:25
GAN900	Hehe	04:25
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GAN900	The browser-ui was supposed to be open initially	04:25
GAN900	But that didn't pan out	04:25
GAN900	then it was supposed to be open with Fremantle	04:25
GAN900	But wasn't	04:25
GAN900	It's on Garage	04:25
* jpinx-eeepc lurks in here while searching for a 2nd hand n900		04:26
SpeedEvil	A seemingly old version is on garage. I'm not sure if that's current code.	04:26
SpeedEvil	browser-ui is the stuff that does zoom/pan?	04:26
SpeedEvil	microb is the bit that merely renders to an image?	04:26
SpeedEvil	(well - of course - that's the hard bit)	04:27
SpeedEvil	jpinx-eeepc: I supect any coming up on ebay will go quite fast.	04:28
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SpeedEvil	I note that the price has gone down a bit int he UK	04:28
jpinx-eeepc	SpeedEvil: I'm in Thailand ;)	04:28
SpeedEvil	(from nokia.co.uk	04:28
SpeedEvil	ah	04:28
SpeedEvil	Is there ebay in thailand?	04:28
jpinx-eeepc	looking in the markets here - there are some.....	04:28
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SpeedEvil	There are lots of 'nokla n900' around.	04:29
jpinx-eeepc	how much of my limited debian knowledge will transfer be useful in maemo?	04:29
SpeedEvil	Check it's not advertising dual-sim :)	04:29
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SpeedEvil	Maemo is - pretty much - a desktop linux system running on a phone.	04:30
SpeedEvil	To the extent that you can with a stock 1.2 install, with about 6 commands be rebuilding the kernel on the device	04:30
jpinx-eeepc	SpeedEvil: I have seen some good-looking non nokia n900's ;)	04:31
SpeedEvil	echo sdkrepodetails >/etc/apt/whererver	04:31
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SpeedEvil	apt-get install build-essentials, ...	04:31
SpeedEvil	Dual SIM would be a handy feature	04:31
jpinx-eeepc	SpeedEvil: cool - it's an apt based install system?	04:31
SpeedEvil	jpinx-eeepc: yes	04:32
SpeedEvil	The stock application manager is a wrapper round apt.	04:32
jpinx-eeepc	are there genuine n900s with dual sim?	04:32
MohammadAG51	no	04:32
jpinx-eeepc	thought not....	04:32
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SpeedEvil	Hmm - looks like they are going for 250 quid or so on ebay	04:33
SpeedEvil	used	04:33
ohwhyme	the n900?	04:33
jpinx-eeepc	I'll be in a different market today and will see what's aaround	04:33
ohwhyme	that is sooo cheap	04:33
SpeedEvil	yes	04:33
SpeedEvil	http://completed.shop.ebay.co.uk/Mobile-Phones-/3312/i.html?LH_ItemCondition=2&LH_Complete=1&_nkw=n900&_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m283&_rdc=1	04:33
jpinx-eeepc	I got offered a N86 8Mb for US$235 a couple of days ago, but it's symbian	04:34
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Termana	good morning	04:34
jpinx-eeepc	I'll let you know what prices I get offered n900s at if I find any	04:35
ohwhyme	can u even unlock the n900 by urself?	04:35
ohwhyme	a lot of them are locked to a provider on ebay	04:35
SpeedEvil	ohwhyme: it's not usually locked	04:35
SpeedEvil	I know some are 'locked' to coda - but I'm not sure what that involves	04:36
jpinx-eeepc	over here nothing is locked	04:36
SpeedEvil	voda	04:36
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jpinx-eeepc	there is an IMEI-based code that allows you to unlock most mobiles, not sure about n900s specifically though	04:37
ohwhyme	so how is the usb otg project going?	04:40
SpeedEvil	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53240&highlight=vodafone+firmware says the voda ones are not in fact locked.	04:40
SpeedEvil	you can flash	04:40
SpeedEvil	ohwhyme: progressing slowly	04:40
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ohwhyme	ah	04:40
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SpeedEvil	http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products/all-phones/nokia-n900/specifications#hardware-dim - says 'photo editor on device'	04:49
SpeedEvil	Oh - I suppose you can crop them.	04:49
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ponyofdeath	hi guys how do i add an irc channel to the my n900 i have the server set up but dont see where i set up an channel	04:51
SpeedEvil	You mean int he conversations app?	04:51
ponyofdeath	SpeedEvil: yeah	04:51
ponyofdeath	SpeedEvil: do i have to add contact that is #channelname ?	04:52
SpeedEvil	I just use xchat - the conversations app is very broken	04:52
SpeedEvil	For IRC	04:52
SpeedEvil	I tried it once, and it diddn't basically work at all for channels for me.	04:52
ponyofdeath	well i have irssi as well but it would be nice to get the conversations one	04:52
SpeedEvil	It might have gotten better.	04:52
jpinx-eeepc	SpeedEvil: is it possible to run irssi/bitlbee in a screen session?	04:53
SpeedEvil	Sorry - not played with it	04:53
SpeedEvil	yes	04:53
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* SpeedEvil points at ponyofdeath.		04:53
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jpinx-eeepc	iirc xchat is not too good	04:53
luke-jr	neither is irssi	04:54
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jpinx-eeepc	SpeedEvil: what's the deal between maemo and meego ?	04:54
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: Maemo is dead. MeeGo is RPM.	04:55
luke-jr	they both suck.	04:55
jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: not getting into an irc-client war, but I've been using irssi with bitlbee for years without a hiccup	04:55
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SpeedEvil	Meego is an intel/nokia collaboration to make a etter platform.	04:55
SpeedEvil	better	04:55
luke-jr	"better"	04:55
SpeedEvil	It's not officially coming to the n900	04:55
ponyofdeath	jpinx-eeepc: whats bitlbee?	04:55
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: yeah - well - that's what they're saying	04:55
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jpinx-eeepc	SpeedEvil: is it open source - apart from the nokia drivers I suppose?	04:56
SpeedEvil	~closed	04:56
infobot	it has been said that closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages	04:56
SpeedEvil	see that	04:56
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: drivers are all that matter	04:56
jpinx-eeepc	ponyofdeath: see bitlbee.org - it's a way to connect any messenger to an irc client	04:56
SpeedEvil	Drivers are all that matters - if you're willing to reinvent the whole software stack.	04:56
jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: have you written any drivers for nokia hardware?	04:57
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: sure	04:57
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luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: more like ported, actually	04:57
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: the closed ones cannot be replaced, however	04:58
jpinx-eeepc	it would be good to get an open-scource OS onto the n900	04:58
luke-jr	since Nokia/etc refuse to release the specs needed to write them	04:58
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: probably will never happen	04:58
jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: :(	04:58
SpeedEvil	http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/06/10/0021228/ATT-Leaks-Emails-Addresses-of-114000-iPad-Users ...	04:58
luke-jr	even if Nokia stopped being a jerk, there's still the PowerVR company	04:58
ponyofdeath	jpinx-eeepc: thx	04:58
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jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: fairysnuff - I'm only starting to get to know the setup between nokia and it's hardware supplies and driver writers...	04:59
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: I'm trying to get Linux to run on N810	05:00
jpinx-eeepc	as you can see I'm on an eeepc (with debian) and want to get more portable	05:00
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jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: one requirement for me is a reasonable camera so I don't have to carry 2 bits of kit. I'd love to get a N86 8Mb, but it runs symbian	05:02
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: I'm still looking for a device that meets my requirements	05:02
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luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: I want basically an updated Sharp Zaurus SL-C760	05:02
* jpinx-eeepc googles		05:03
jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: that's the same size as my eeepc	05:04
luke-jr	it is?	05:04
luke-jr	C760 fits comfortably in my pocket	05:04
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* jpinx-eeepc looks again...		05:05
SpeedEvil	The camera on the n900 isn't bad for a phone camera.	05:06
lucent	it's farking great	05:06
SpeedEvil	It's around 2-3MP in reality.	05:06
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luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: the side card slot is CompactFlash, not PCMCIA/CardBus/etc	05:06
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lucent	ugh CompactFail	05:07
lucent	I had the wifi CF card and all that	05:08
luke-jr	I concur, my 802.11b CF is broken I think	05:08
SpeedEvil	lucent: Being able to take a pic, and flickr it in a couple of clicks is nice.	05:08
luke-jr	but for $20, not too bad	05:08
SpeedEvil	http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4687082204/	05:08
* SpeedEvil needs to work out what these flowers are.		05:08
lucent	snapdragons?	05:09
lucent	naw	05:09
SpeedEvil	That's a quite acceptable shot that stands up well at 1024x768 even.	05:09
SpeedEvil	And I basically took that off-hand.	05:09
luke-jr	1024x768 is crap for photos	05:09
jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: cool device...	05:10
SpeedEvil	yes	05:10
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luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: yeah, for 2003 :p	05:10
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luke-jr	64 MB RAM, 128 or 256 MB storage, no builtin wifi, etc	05:10
jpinx-eeepc	SpeedEvil: I have a digicam that is almost permanently set for 1Mb filesize and I get excellent photos	05:11
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: I'd like one with 512+ MB RAM, some GB of internal storage, builtin 802.11n and 3G/4G, etc :)	05:11
jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: I see what you mean about needing it updated..	05:11
SpeedEvil	jpinx-eeepc: even a 2MP camera that can do 3* optical zoom - say	05:12
lucent	luke-jr: so, you want an iPhone 4	05:12
luke-jr	lucent: no, iPhone sucks	05:12
lucent	it's fantastic	05:12
luke-jr	the only thing worse than a bad keyboard is no keyboard	05:12
luke-jr	curiously, Nokia made a N810 with 4G support, but N900 only has 3G ;p	05:12
jpinx-eeepc	does a n900 accept and external keyboard?	05:12
lucent	luke-jr: you're referring to WiMax?	05:13
luke-jr	lucent: yeah	05:13
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: Bluetooth	05:13
lucent	I live in one of the only places nationally (USA) that you can get a WiMax service plan	05:13
luke-jr	lucent: one of many, now that Sprint and various others are deploying it	05:13
lucent	it's the most awful deployment of a technology I've ever seen	05:13
jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: cool that'll make life easier - what about an external monitor?	05:13
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: don't think so	05:14
SpeedEvil	jpinx-eeepc: Not officially.	05:14
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: honestly, N900 is too small among many other issues I have with it	05:14
lucent	slow... not mobile, you can't just walk around with it	05:14
SpeedEvil	With USB host, it may be possible to use displaylink adaptors	05:14
jpinx-eeepc	I plug my eeepc into external kbd and screen and it acts as a desktop	05:14
lucent	costs $50/mo more than comparable other plans	05:14
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jpinx-eeepc	it'd be cool to get the n900 to do the same	05:15
luke-jr	I'd also like one of those new Snapdragons :p	05:15
luke-jr	the 1.5 GHz dual core would work well	05:15
lucent	jpinx-eeepc: might happen when N900 Host USB mode gets filled out more	05:15
jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: too small as in kbd/screen?	05:15
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: yes	05:15
jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: I have been holding off the n900 because of big hands/bad eyesight too ;)	05:16
SpeedEvil	I am divided about the size.	05:16
jpinx-eeepc	but an external kbd will help a lot	05:16
luke-jr	N810 is too small IMO	05:16
luke-jr	let alone N900	05:16
SpeedEvil	The screen covering more of the bezel is a no-brainer	05:16
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SpeedEvil	However - that buys you maybe 900*480 at best	05:17
jpinx-eeepc	and if the usbhost-thingy project gets working it'll be very good	05:17
luke-jr	I wonder if IS01 specs are more announced...	05:17
SpeedEvil	For me - the size is just about right.	05:17
lucent	jpinx-eeepc: If you get a N900, I'm going to guess you'd use the stylus often	05:18
jpinx-eeepc	lucent: or a sharp stick ;)	05:18
lucent	PRO-TIP, don't use the built-in stylus, it's too expensive to replace	05:18
luke-jr	lucent: if you don't use it, it doesn't matter what the replacement cost is...	05:19
SpeedEvil	I have actually got a sharp stick that I use as a stylus.	05:19
SpeedEvil	I mislaid the old one, so I whittled a new one.	05:19
jpinx-eeepc	I'm sure a toothpick will suffice	05:19
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lucent	SpeedEvil: was that yours out of a chopstick on the forums?	05:19
SpeedEvil	No.	05:19
lucent	it was gold, whoever that was	05:19
SpeedEvil	I used some wood from a japanese maple.	05:19
* lucent ^_^		05:19
lucent	I actually did misplace my original and ordered a set of 3 replacements, 25euro shipped to the US	05:20
jpinx-eeepc	SpeedEvil: Arty-crafty ec0-friendly stylus - nice :)	05:20
SpeedEvil	http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/3857925902/in/set-72157619014273807/ - this one specifically.	05:20
lucent	ugh, Flickr requires login	05:21
lucent	I tried, too bad, not going to	05:21
jpinx-eeepc	:(	05:21
jpinx-eeepc	picpaste	05:21
SpeedEvil	lucent: retry - I made it public	05:21
luke-jr	BAH	05:21
luke-jr	IS01 is a mere 256 MB RAM	05:21
lucent	I've missed an hour of "Avatar", I could bicycle to the theater, there's still another 2 hours of it	05:25
Termana	Hmm 6 minute oral presentation on an important issue	05:26
Termana	Free software anyone?	05:26
Termana	:P	05:26
SpeedEvil	Termana: To who?	05:26
Termana	SpeedEvil, English teacher	05:26
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Termana	She might be bored to death if i make it about free software though, so I don't think thats a great topic to do	05:27
SpeedEvil	I suggest http://wooferhouse.net/Links/taming-foxes.html - updated as related to life in the inner city.	05:27
SpeedEvil	Significant changes were observed in foxes in as little as 20 generations.	05:28
SpeedEvil	Humans have been living in cities for well over 500 years.	05:28
SpeedEvil	This is plenty of time for some evoluion of resident populations to occur.	05:28
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Termana	SpeedEvil, but whats the issue. There has to be a central issue that has to be talked about in the oral. Some example we've been given: Euthanasia, Gambling, Alcohol, Homelessness, Gun control, Enviroment, "the drug debate", Consumer rights, Sexuality	05:39
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Termana	examples*	05:39
Termana	Fox evolution doesn't seem like an issue... :P	05:39
SpeedEvil	eugenics	05:40
SpeedEvil	As we're practicing it	05:40
SpeedEvil	We are selecting for certain behaviours - especially in some inner cities with low generation times.	05:40
jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: the kbd on that sharp looks almost useable...	05:41
lucent	SpeedEvil: fatness, laziness, absurd wealth, willingness of wives to accept surgical implants	05:41
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: the C760's sure was	05:41
lucent	oh again don't mind me I'm a Yank	05:41
jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: I going to see about a n900 and a bluetooth kbd - there is no way I can cope with that little slide out jobbie	05:42
SpeedEvil	I'm surprised. I'm up to around 30wpm on it	05:43
lucent	same	05:43
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lucent	was 2 week period of awkwardness	05:43
jpinx-eeepc	you haven't seen my hands ;)	05:43
jpinx-eeepc	even the eeepc kbd is a challenge	05:44
lucent	worst thing is trying to type in dollar amounts with US notation $N,NNN,NNN.NN	05:44
Termana	luke-jr, The C760 just looks like almost a netbook size. Why not just get a netbook	05:44
luke-jr	Termana: cuz netbooks don't fit in my pocket	05:44
jpinx-eeepc	Termana: it's a lot smaller	05:44
lucent	FnFnNFn,FnFnNNNFn,FnFnNNNFn.FnFnNNFn	05:44
lucent	makes me crazy	05:44
SpeedEvil	lucent:	05:45
SpeedEvil	well - with 1.2 - that can be just hold-keys	05:45
lucent	hold keys makes me crazy on the terminal	05:45
Termana	jpinx-eeepc, luke-jr - hmm, maybe the picture just makes it look big	05:45
SpeedEvil	lucent: I would love to trim the hold time to around 2/3 of what it is	05:45
SpeedEvil	maybe 1/2	05:45
lucent	it just seems as though my N900 is aiming for my institutionalization in a psychiatric ward	05:46
jpinx-eeepc	Termana: it does - look here - http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7162	05:46
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* ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:]		06:16
ENTERANICK	ytu	06:17
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ENTERANICK	hello?	06:20
ENTERANICK	482 users idling huh	06:20
ENTERANICK	cya	06:20
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DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: hold_keys? omg. that takes even longer than the Fn dance	06:33
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DocScrutinizer51	is the keyboard driver OSS?	06:34
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luke-jr	lol	06:38
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sx0n\|home	hm. http://www.intomobile.com/2010/02/17/qualcomm-there-will-be-a-nokia-symbian-phone-this-year-with-snapdragon.html	06:39
sx0n\|home	difficult to believe that ^	06:39
sx0n\|home	..but, why not.	06:39
luke-jr	why?	06:39
luke-jr	Snapdragon easily beats anything TI has	06:40
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sx0n\|home	luke-jr: they said it in the article, there has been law issues.	06:41
sx0n\|home	luke-jr: ti's multicore arm is not bad either.	06:41
luke-jr	you mean the one that doesn't exist?	06:42
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sx0n\|home	i have read about it at least	06:43
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, mind citing that? :)	06:45
GeneralAntilles	Snapdragon has less cache and fewer integrated pieces.	06:45
GeneralAntilles	So that claim is pretty much bunk.	06:46
GeneralAntilles	They're basically on par.	06:46
luke-jr	fewer integrated pieces? like GSM, 802.11, GPS, etc? :p	06:46
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luke-jr	anyhow, I haven't seen any real TI offering to compete with 1.5 GHz x2	06:47
GeneralAntilles	Like DSP and GPU	06:47
GeneralAntilles	Er, yeah.	06:47
GeneralAntilles	Because that's actually shipping in something.	06:47
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DocScrutinizer51	fsck MHz. Use decent performance tests	06:52
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GeneralAntilles	Hooray Google Alerts	06:55
GeneralAntilles	I get to see weird people use me to justify weird positions on -users.	06:55
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dr34m	somebody got a working fish encryption module for xchat for maemo already ?	07:55
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tekojo	Morning!	08:21
DocScrutinizer51	morning	08:25
Stskeeps	morn tekojo	08:25
DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: delete event fails in alarmed	08:25
DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: sorting of menus is weird - like "second, day, hour, week"	08:26
DocScrutinizer51	presets are great	08:27
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DocScrutinizer51	a funny idea I had for command to execute: completion based on ~/*sh.history	08:30
DocScrutinizer51	note to self: check if xterm can force shell to save history on focus-lost	08:32
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LiraNuna	oooh, mBarcode works nicely	08:36
DocScrutinizer51	yep	08:37
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LiraNuna	too bad it starts the camera+flash even if the door is closed :\|	08:37
DocScrutinizer51	duh!	08:38
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LiraNuna	and it still opens the camera app if i open it while it's on	08:39
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DocScrutinizer51	camera-gui is greedy, nasty, and a general PITA.	08:41
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pigeon	does anyone know where i can find the list of tweaks with the n900 screen rotation, like speed and smoothness stuff like that?	09:30
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mikki-kun	pigeon: do you mean transition control?	09:37
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pigeon	i'm not sure to be honest, i just remember reading a page about things you can tweak, and those numbers are in gconf somewhere	09:41
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nextime	question: in your opinion, will maemo in any way ( a fork? ) developed anyway in the future even with the event of meego adopted as primary platform from nokia?	09:44
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Stskeeps	nextime: community SSU, maybe, but forking a closed source OS is difficult	09:45
nextime	Stskeeps : closed? which things are closed in maemo?	09:46
Stskeeps	sec	09:46
nextime	i need to rtfm something more about it... anyway, i'm sad about the lose of the "debian based" thing on meego	09:47
Stskeeps	meh, spend some time with the rpm tools and packaging and it's actually nicer	09:47
Stskeeps	:P	09:47
Stskeeps	http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html	09:47
nextime	Stskeeps : yes, but as a long time debian user ( from when debian exists ) on all my pc/servers	09:47
nextime	i prefer to have a debian based system even on my phone :)	09:48
Stskeeps	hehe	09:48
nextime	Stskeeps : consider that the "debian based" os is the primary reason on my choice for nokia n900...	09:48
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hrw	morning	10:10
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:19
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mece	Jaffa, morning.	10:25
mece	Anyone want to test my modified libhildonfm2?	10:25
Dassu	what type of media player plugin does Mobile firefox have?	10:25
Appiah	mece: modified for what	10:26
Dassu	I see it most likely has none :/	10:27
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Dassu	Definitately need for a gecko mediaplayer is great	10:27
mece	Appiah, to show filename extensions	10:28
mece	http://twitpic.com/1vc5m5	10:28
Appiah	cool	10:29
Appiah	but I'd bet thats for PR1.2	10:29
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Appiah	(still not updated)	10:29
mece	Appiah, well, you need some updated hildon libs for it to run, so I guess so.	10:29
mece	Appiah, so update.	10:29
red	why cant i delete all the connections	10:29
mece	red, internet connections?	10:30
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red	i mean, ihave connection A set as default, yet it always connects to B which doesnt work	10:30
Appiah	mece: not yet :)	10:30
red	both have the delete option grayed out	10:30
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mece	red, fAPN problem?	10:31
red	i think the other one came when i tried the fmms app (its called MMS)	10:31
mece	red, uninstall fAPN	10:31
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red	fmms isnt installed and cant see fapn in the list	10:31
red	ill see what apt-get says	10:32
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mece	red, perhaps fapn is included in fmms these days? I forget how it works. Havent used it lately.	10:32
red	fapn not installed	10:33
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red	wonder in where the connections are stored if i could delete it manually	10:33
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mece	red, well first remove fmms.	10:50
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MiXu-	You can remove the non working APNs using gconf-tool2	10:53
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MiXu-	http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=39737&page=3	10:54
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solrize	http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/06/09/nokia.house.shows.s.series.c7.e7.x7.and.n9/ new nokia phone roadmap?	10:56
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mece	frals, ping	11:04
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crashanddie	solrize: old news	11:11
solrize	is there any more info	11:11
solrize	?	11:11
crashanddie	it's a rumour	11:12
solrize	well ok, that presentation seems to be new though	11:12
solrize	not that it says anything interesting	11:12
crashanddie	well, for all we know, it could be an economy bachelor's end-of-studies project	11:13
crashanddie	certainly looks like it	11:13
crashanddie	No Nokia branding, no copyright notice	11:13
solrize	ic	11:13
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solrize	http://www.nokiaphones.net/nokia-n9-first-phone-on-meego/ more of the same	11:14
Termana	You would be deeply wrong to think that it says nothing.	11:14
Termana	If you actually look	11:14
Termana	It shows, Nokia is building an unstable house	11:14
crashanddie	Termana: what's even worse, they know there's problems with it. "Faible" is french for "weak"	11:15
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crashanddie	also, there's no way that chimney is going to stay put	11:15
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LiraNuna	what's Harmattan? "PR2.0" or MeeGo?	11:18
Duckboot	LiraNuna: Maemo 6	11:18
LiraNuna	I thought there will be no Maemo 6	11:18
Duckboot	LiraNuna: Correct	11:19
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* LiraNuna confused		11:19
mece	LiraLuna, harmattan is Maemo 6. It's called MeeGo for some reason, eventhough it's not really meego.	11:19
Duckboot	Harmattan was planned before the Nokia-Intel marriage	11:19
LiraNuna	but there's no MeeGo support for N900	11:19
LiraNuna	does it mean a new device?	11:19
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Duckboot	LiraNuna: Nokia N9 presumably	11:20
Termana	LiraNuna, There IS MeeGo support for N900	11:20
MohammadAG51	MeeGo = full open source shit	11:20
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MohammadAG51	Maemo 6 = closed shit	11:20
Termana	But yes, there is a new device	11:20
LiraNuna	non official*	11:20
Duckboot	No commercial support for N900	11:20
MohammadAG51	so basically...	11:20
Termana	and Maemo 6 is not really MeeGo underneath	11:20
MohammadAG51	MeeGo is kind of like the android we have	11:20
* LiraNuna is even more confused now		11:20
MohammadAG51	(except it's working)	11:20
mece	MohammadAG51, except it's proper linux, afaict.	11:21
Termana	Duckboot, no commercial support as in, you can't call them up. They are providing people to work on it.	11:21
MohammadAG51	Maemo 6 would be like Android on google devices (app store etc..)	11:21
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LiraNuna	oh, THAT what "commercial support" means?	11:21
Duckboot	Termana: Mmmm - Think so.	11:21
MohammadAG51	mece, yes, I was using android as a reference	11:21
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MohammadAG51	hopefully ovi will be closed shit and we won't have it	11:22
MohammadAG51	anyways, i'm sticking to M5	11:22
Termana	More like, know so. The whole N900 MeeGo team is Nokia employees/contractors	11:22
Termana	Theres like 10 of them	11:22
LiraNuna	MohammadAG51, M5?	11:22
Termana	LiraNuna, Maemo 5...	11:22
MohammadAG51	Maemo 5, wasn't it obvious?	11:22
LiraNuna	oh	11:22
mece	LiraLuna, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53551 read that. It's an excellent thread if you ignore the whine.	11:23
LiraNuna	well, there was N9, N8, etc	11:23
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LiraNuna	so MeeGo is going to be 'more open' than Maemo5?	11:24
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Scelt_	MohammadAG51: have you something to do with usb on-the-go?	11:24
Termana	Also, Nokia are willing to license Maemo 6 for N900 if the community can get it working. So you will probably see Maemo 6 on N900 as well	11:24
Appiah	Maemo 6?huh	11:24
mece	Jaffa, cheers for new hermes!	11:24
MohammadAG51	Scelt_, it's not OTG....	11:25
MohammadAG51	mece, new hermes? OMG	11:25
Scelt_	MohammadAG51: what then?	11:25
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mece	Scelt_, usb host	11:25
Termana	Appiah, Maemo 6 - Harmattan/MeeGo	11:25
Scelt	oknp	11:25
Appiah	Didnt know Maemo 6 = MeeGo	11:26
Scelt	just one day I thought about that kind of thing, to be able to attach a external hdd to my n900	11:26
Termana	Seriously, this is troublesome. How is it not easy to understand the Harmattan naming situation	11:26
MohammadAG51	for an HDD you need external power	11:26
Termana	Appiah, Maemo 6 != MeeGo. Only in branding.	11:26
Appiah	...	11:26
MohammadAG51	unless it's an SSD	11:26
mece	I'd very much like to dual boot that though.	11:26
Termana	Die in fire	11:26
* Appiah dies		11:27
Scelt	MohammadAG51: yeye, that's not a problem	11:27
* MohammadAG51 sings Still Alive (portal)		11:27
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mece	ok soo.. anyone with pr1.2 wanna test the modified libhildonfm2? I've only tested it on my own phone so far. Works for me. MohammadAG51? DocScrutinizer?	11:30
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MohammadAG51	why us?	11:30
psycho_oreos	probably due to experience ;)	11:30
MohammadAG51	it's a conspiracy I tell ya	11:30
mece	MohammadAG51, because you want it?	11:31
MohammadAG51	mece, sure	11:31
mmarc__	what can we replace asm "int $3" on arm with?	11:31
Termana	MohammadAG51, you have nothing better to do anyway, what are you complaining about? :P	11:31
mece	MohammadAG51, hold on, I'll put the deb somewhere.	11:31
MohammadAG51	Termana, I do have something better to do, but I'm not sure how to do it xP	11:31
* psycho_oreos has pr1.2 running but the phone is busy repacking all the pre-installed deb files		11:31
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MohammadAG51	~curse closed source	11:34
mece	I should tell you that there is one annoying sideeffect with switching to the new filemanager. The stupid pr1.2 will come as an update again.	11:34
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, closed source !	11:34
MohammadAG51	mece, raise the time stamp in the changelog	11:35
mece	MohammadAG51, hmm I don't think that's the problem. It is listed as newer than the one in pr1.2 anyway.	11:36
mece	MohammadAG51, if I were to make it the same version I'm sure that wouldn't happen, but that would be just wrong.	11:36
MohammadAG51	mece, don't change the version number	11:36
MohammadAG51	i think mp-fremantle-generic-pr depends on it	11:37
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mece	MohammadAG51, it does, but I wanted to point out that it's different. Oh well. I'll make another later. wanna try this one? you can undo it by installing the original from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/libh/libhildonfm/ anyway	11:38
MohammadAG51	or just apt-get install it :)	11:39
MohammadAG51	mece libhildonfm2 (= 1:2.28.18+0m5)	11:39
mece	MohammadAG51, it wasn't in my repos	11:39
MohammadAG51	I know, I was referring to the original one	11:39
mece	MohammadAG51, for some reason I couldn't install it with apt.	11:39
mece	MohammadAG51, anyway here: http://hedwerks.net/stuff/libhildonfm2_2.28.18+0m5-maemo2_armel.deb	11:40
mece	my build environment is a bit sketchy, so if it bombs, it's probly due to that and not the modifications.	11:41
mece	since they were tiny and simple.	11:41
chem\|st	morning	11:42
mece	you'll need to restart something or reboot too..	11:43
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chem\|st	Termana: "only in branding"? Maemo6 !=MeeGo in packaging as well	11:44
mece	chem\|st, Termana meant that Maemo6 == MeeGo only in branding.	11:45
mece	afaict.	11:45
chem\|st	ah that way around...	11:45
chem\|st	guess its not only branding	11:45
chem\|st	mece: what was libhildonfm2 for?	11:45
mece	chem\|st, file manager and file picker/chooser	11:45
chem\|st	and your patch does what?	11:46
mece	chem\|st, modded to show filename extensions.	11:46
chem\|st	ah!!!111	11:46
chem\|st	nice!	11:46
mece	chem\|st, :) yes, I'm quite happy with it. I'm wondering what other mods would be nice.	11:46
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mece	Making the descriptive bit under the filename a smaller font perhaps.	11:47
chem\|st	everytime I finish a Qt gui someoneelse has the full blown program uploaded to garage, quiet disappointing	11:47
chem\|st	I should go to maintain libs!	11:47
mece	chem\|st, lol	11:47
mece	chem\|st, like what?	11:47
chem\|st	fourier transformation I found handy ;)	11:47
mece	how can I see the depends of a deb? particularly mp-fremantle-generic-pr?	11:48
chem\|st	or go back to the roots and try some hardware abstraction	11:48
chem\|st	apt-cache show mp....	11:48
chem\|st	but dpkg can list that aswell	11:49
mece	chem\|st, but how do I see the control file?	11:49
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mece	(should be huge)	11:49
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mece	chem\|st, if I ever needed to do fourier transfers, and app would be nice :D Luckily I've already done the maths courses and will not touch that again.	11:51
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hrw	yay! garnetVM for n900	11:51
Stskeeps	url?	11:51
Duckboot	http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/	11:52
mece	http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/6668/garnet-vm-working-on-the-nokia-n900/	11:52
mece	MohammadAG51, did it work or is your phone now a smoking crater?	11:53
MohammadAG51	it just imploded	11:54
mece	how?	11:54
Macer	yeah.. conservative vs. ondemand showed me that ondemand is better	11:54
MohammadAG51	do I have to reboot? I don't see a difference	11:54
Macer	heh	11:54
mece	MohammadAG51, or restart some hildon stuff. reboot is what I did.	11:54
Macer	conservative makes the n900 2x slower and doesnt really save any battery life	11:54
MohammadAG51	conservative?	11:55
chem\|st	mece: I need it for signal handling but the program isnt compiling atm	11:55
Macer	for the power governor	11:55
MohammadAG51	mece, change the version number to the original one, pleeease :P	11:55
mece	MohammadAG51, so it works?	11:56
Macer	does the enhanced kernel have nfs?	11:57
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Macer	or sshfs? :)	11:57
Tachikoma	btw. what is the deal with this smartarray stuff. IT worked fine befoe PR1.2 and does not work anymore for me now. I know it's not supposed to work but i wondered if there are hints what one could try. It nearly doubled my runtime ...	11:57
mece	so.. anyone? how do I see a list of depends from a package?	11:58
Tachikoma	Macer: nfs was already shipped with the device, so I'd assume that it is in the power kernel as well	11:58
Ikarus[N900]	hrm, when I try to get DUN working, I get unable to open host for /dev/rfcomm0	11:58
mece	MohammadAG51, was hoping to make it work somehow with a better version number, or whatnot.	11:58
Ikarus[N900]	obex works fine though	11:58
MohammadAG51	mece change mp-fremantle then :P	11:58
Tachikoma	Macer: yes, it comes with nfs	11:58
MohammadAG51	or make it a separate package that installs somewhere else	11:59
Ikarus[N900]	erm I get host is down that is for /dev/rfcomm0	11:59
mece	MohammadAG51, I could just rename the package. dpkg won't know what hit it!	11:59
Tachikoma	Macer: for sshfs afaik you need no support on the kernel level at all, just a working ssh server	11:59
mece	s/dpkg/HAM/	11:59
infobot	mece meant: MohammadAG51, I could just rename the package. HAM won't know what hit it!	11:59
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mece	I mean it would still overwrite the lib file like we want	12:00
mece	I'll try that.	12:00
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Macer	Tachikoma: ive never tried it	12:01
Macer	it would be nie to use	12:01
hrw	Stskeeps: http://www.access-company.com/cgi/gvm.cgi?a=download_eula_now&w=N900&o=OS2009	12:01
Macer	using sftp kind of sucks.. i would love to stream vs. xfer files	12:01
hrw	Stskeeps: basically it is n810 version but with proper portrait direction	12:01
mece	Stskeeps, is that an official release?	12:01
Stskeeps	what is?	12:02
Macer	only problem with nfs tho is that you are stuck with "user"	12:02
mece	the website looks so shiny..	12:02
mece	Stskeeps, garnet	12:02
Macer	maemo needs logins with uid/gid stuff :)	12:02
Stskeeps	mece: no cluie	12:02
mece	k	12:03
Macer	mece: just run n900 meego	12:04
* Macer hides		12:04
mece	Macer, I don't really want to run Garnet. I was just curious.	12:04
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hrw	mece: I am using garnet only for Metro ;d	12:05
mece	hrw, what's metro?	12:06
chem\|st	hrw: is it up-side-down for you?	12:07
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chem\|st	Stskeeps: you are a nokia right?	12:08
Stskeeps	no, i'm not a nokian	12:08
chem\|st	nokian I mean	12:08
hrw	mece: http://metro.nanika.net/	12:08
chem\|st	damn	12:08
chem\|st	I need s/o to slap some other for me...	12:08
hrw	chem\|st: n900 version has proper portrait. n810 was up-down	12:08
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chem\|st	hrw: I have the n900 version and the bottom is at the usb connector side!	12:09
hrw	chem\|st: here it is fine	12:10
chem\|st	grml	12:10
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RST38h	moo all	12:10
chem\|st	moo	12:11
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer51: do you have 0.2.0-1 or -2 ?	12:11
MohammadAG51	mece, it worked	12:11
MohammadAG51	and crashed X somehow	12:11
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BCMM	moo	12:12
TigerTael	Umm, can anyone tell me where chromium went?	12:12
mece	MohammadAG51, crashed?	12:13
Stskeeps	someone sent a cease and desist letter, afaik	12:13
MohammadAG51	mece, yeah, I'll blame you for the time being	12:13
MohammadAG51	till I found out what actually caused it	12:13
mece	MohammadAG51, I got a crash the first time I ran it, and nothing after that.	12:13
MohammadAG51	Stskeeps, for what? chromium?	12:14
mece	MohammadAG51, I opened filemanager, scrolled down really fast, and then it rebooted.	12:14
RST38h	Mohammad: Yes	12:14
MohammadAG51	RST38h, why	12:14
RST38h	Mohammad: There is some patent troll on the lose, trying to make money on Chrome	12:14
mece	MohammadAG51, if you find the cause, let me know.	12:14
MohammadAG51	mece, kind of did the same, but it didn't reboot now	12:14
MohammadAG51	err, -now	12:14
MohammadAG51	i had to reboot manually	12:14
TigerTael	Stskeeps, oh...	12:14
MohammadAG51	RST38h, it's open source	12:15
MohammadAG51	well, chromium is	12:15
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mece	MohammadAG51, my actual mod is so small that I don't think it is the problem. Might be some bugs in the build though. It sorta felt like it was indexing or whatnot and I stressed it.	12:15
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mece	to change the name of a package, is it enough to modify the control file?	12:16
MohammadAG51	mece, now can you please change the number	12:16
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MohammadAG51	lol no	12:16
mece	lolwut?	12:16
MohammadAG51	well yes, but you'll have to adjust debian/rules	12:17
mece	ok. will check that.	12:17
MohammadAG51	unless it's packaged well	12:17
mece	MohammadAG51, well it's packaged by nokia...	12:17
mece	I guess.	12:18
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Jaffa	mece: A couple of minor bugs to fix - testing today appreciated	12:20
mece	I've got dh_makeshlibs -plibhildonfm2 -V"libhildonfm2 (>= 1:2.28+0m5)"	12:21
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RST38h	Mohammad: This does not prevent patent trolls from attacking it	12:22
mece	I get some "compatibility levels before 4 are deprecated"	12:24
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mmarc__	How to run apt-get from the arm freemantle scratchbox? It required CPU transparecny mode to be set. Not clear what does it mean. Should I run apt-get from qemu-arm? And if so, how to find the corresponding apt-get app from the outside of the fakeroot? Its /usr/ folder seems to be symlinking elsewhere...	12:30
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mece	mmarc__, apt-get works fine in arm...	12:31
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mece	mmarc__, just switch to target arm and apt-get all you want.	12:31
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TigerTael	x64?	12:32
mmarc__	mece, I've switched or what do you mean?	12:33
mece	mmarc__, what is the problem exactly?	12:34
mmarc__	Could you please help me to understand: in FREMANTLE ARM root on 32-bit host the gcc acts as a cross-compiler to arm, correct? Then how apt-get works? Logically, it should be also x86-compiled to get it working.	12:35
mece	mmarc__, no idea. it just works.	12:35
mmarc__	Basically, I need to install some development libs on ARM root, but apt-get says "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set"	12:36
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mece	mmarc__, never had that issue.	12:36
mmarc__	It also just works for me under i486 root	12:36
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mece	mmarc__, so your prompt looks like "[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARM: ~] > " and you type "apt-get install <whatever>" and you get that error?	12:37
mmarc__	yeah, exactly!	12:38
mece	how curious.	12:38
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mece	mmarc__, here's something: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34801	12:40
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mece	MohammadAG51, so did it crash again or is it working now?	12:42
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mmarc__	mece, thanks, the difference with other users' experiences is that sb-menu CPU transparency menu has only "none" option	12:44
Massimiliano	< Un SaLuTo a TuTto il chan #maemo >	12:44
Massimiliano	_list	12:44
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mmarc__	on irc log there is also scratchbox-devkit-cputrans package mentioned	12:45
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Duckboot	GarnetVM is AWESOME.	12:46
chem\|st	and up side down	12:46
solrize	that's to run old palm apps? who wants to do that?	12:47
haltdef_	yea that takes me back a bit :P	12:47
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Duckboot	solrize: For the sheer joy of beeing back in PalmOS days	12:48
solrize	anyone know how fast the n900 bluetooth is?	12:49
mmarc__	guys, could you please state what options do you have in sb-menu cpu transparency option that is deeper in setup menu? I really wonder why I have none.	12:49
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solrize	oh hah, it looks like high speed bluetooth actually moves the data by wifi ;)	12:51
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RST38h	Anyone knows if there is a bug report for the annoying phone app glitch?	12:57
RST38h	When it shows up and then does acribatics for a few seconds?	12:57
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MohammadAG51	mece, N900's still working	12:59
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Tachikoma	did i already mention how awesome the n900 is? :)	13:00
Tachikoma	mh, vllt pass east india trading company ja besser als piraten :)	13:01
flux	is there a way to make the maemo backup activate itself periodically?	13:01
flux	while I'm using backuppc now, the official backup might be easier to restore should the software side die again some day..	13:01
Tachikoma	i just got an sms from nokia telling me there is an update for my n900 and i should enter some URL on my PC	13:03
Tachikoma	wtf???	13:03
solrize	phishing?	13:06
Tachikoma	no, the url is valid and says the same	13:07
Jaffa	mece: Hermes 0.8.0 should be in Extras-devel. Testing welcome; but take a backup of your contacts Just In Case[TM] ;-)	13:07
kpel	got the sms too	13:08
kpel	it doesn't make sense. why do i have to use a pc to update an internet enabled device running linux?	13:09
Tachikoma	www.nokia.de/softwareupdate is the url btw	13:09
Tachikoma	totally generic	13:09
Tachikoma	just checking with apt	13:09
kpel	this is getting too much like apple and itunes	13:10
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Tachikoma	with the difference that with apple and itunes this stuff actually works ;)	13:10
kpel	everything has to happen through an application controlled by the vendor.	13:10
Tachikoma	i mean, i get an sms with an generic url asking me to select my phone. From apple i'd expect some url fitting my device	13:11
kpel	tachikoma: correct	13:11
Tachikoma	i guess this might be ovi store related :)	13:11
Tachikoma	at least that would be the only thing I'd understand them to actively notify people as i would not go there anymore wuithout a heads up that it finally is ready	13:12
Tachikoma	but the I'd expect at least a little hint what this update is about ...	13:12
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kpel	ovi in general gave me more grief and downtime in a year than yahoo gave me in ten years.	13:12
Tachikoma	ok, no updates available via apt, guess this sms is total bogus	13:13
Tachikoma	as the webpage states one could install the update using the app installer as well	13:13
Tachikoma	i personally don;t care about ovi anymore, i do not believe this will ever fly for maemo5. For meego/maemo6 maybe but i don;t belive that this is even of big interest for nokia with maemo5 ...	13:15
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Jaffa	dneary: ping	13:20
dneary	Jaffa, pong	13:20
dneary	Jaffa, What can I do you for?	13:20
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Jaffa	dneary: Example of the problems programmers face finding API docs. I want to set an input field (HildonEntry) to be numeric only. This probably involves setting the hildon-input-mode property to some flags (I've done it elsewhere, but not with numbers). So I google for one of the fixed values: HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_FULL - and the only definitive Maemo reference manual entry is to diablo at position #3 :-(	13:21
Tachikoma	I have the suspicion that this sms for a system update was only supposed for symbian users. the webpage talks about 'Go on your device into menu and select "programs->update".'	13:22
Tachikoma	that does not exist on my device...	13:22
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dneary	Jaffa, You googled for HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_FULL directly?	13:23
hrw	heh... gtk stock icons got killed in pr1.2	13:23
dneary	Not "HildonEntry numeric input" or something?	13:23
hrw	bug 10351	13:23
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10351 Icons at bottom broken since PR1.2	13:23
Jaffa	dneary: yup - http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_FULL&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&client=firefox-a	13:23
dneary	Jaffa, So do you think that we're not linking enough to specific API docs from code samples & the reference docs, or...?	13:25
hrw	when nokia will stop breaking 3rdparty apps with system updates?	13:25
Jaffa	dneary: Dunno - I'd hoped that the Dev Center think would contain enough centralised resource that I wouldn't go to Google and its search would be definitive; but since Nokia have refused to include major third party APIs/platforms like Python, I don't use it.	13:27
Duckboot	hrw: With an Open OS like Maemo you cannot hope to not break anything.	13:27
hrw	Duckboot: there should be some stability and migration plans	13:28
Duckboot	hrw: All major players on Linux recognize that simple fact. That's why there exists a thing called Compability Matrix.	13:29
Jaffa	dneary: Searching for HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_FULL or "numeric entry" on library.maemodocs.nokia.com are both useful. What about cloning it, making the header less intrusive and including Python/hilonmm etc :)	13:29
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MohammadAG51	hmm, I wonder if uploading a modified closed source package is allowed	13:30
MohammadAG51	oh well, already uploaded	13:30
chem\|st	MohammadAG51: as long as its free to distribute...	13:31
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MohammadAG51	chem\|st, well, yeah, but the package is borked (overwrites a file from another package)	13:31
zaheerm	office live 2010 editing works nicely on n900 http://www.flickr.com/photos/aandza/4687886038/	13:32
Duckboot	hrw: For example, if you come to Oracle with an contaminated system with loads of 3rd party libs, they just wave you goodbye.	13:32
MohammadAG51	so I removed the file and edited the control file, then repackaged it	13:32
Duckboot	hrw: Or give you the Compability Matrix, and tell you to reinstall	13:32
mmarc__	Ok, I've found export SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD is just a shell symbol to set	13:33
mmarc__	And I set it to "export SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD=/scratchbox/devkits/qemu/bin/qemu-arm-sb"	13:33
mmarc__	Now apt-get in working, but just partially, it now won't do apt-get update	13:33
mmarc__	E: Method http has died unexpectedly!	13:34
MohammadAG51	dude, reinstall scratchbox	13:34
MohammadAG51	and the whole sdk	13:34
MohammadAG51	you shouldn't be getting all that sh*t	13:34
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mmarc__	well, I did nothing stange :) just used pythin installer...	13:34
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marcus	Heya guys, I could use a little guidance regarding creating .debs for the maemo platform	13:38
marcus	I have a little game created using SDL and SDL_image	13:38
marcus	Should I put anything specific in prog.pro, on CONFIG?	13:38
marcus	CONFIG -= qt	13:38
marcus	CONFIG += debug	13:38
marcus	instead of that.	13:38
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marcus	On the GTK_Example on the MADDE website, they put link_pkgconfig, because it is a python+GTK example.	13:39
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dneary	Jaffa, Here's your problem: http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Alibrary.maemodocs.nokia.com+numerical+entry&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a	13:41
dneary	Jaffa, It seems like there's no sitemap for Google to trawl & index pages in lmnc	13:41
Jaffa	dneary: Indeed. No results for "numeric entry" at all	13:41
RST38h	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/10/spymobile_light_speed/	13:41
dneary	Opening a bug	13:41
Jaffa	dneary: Thanks	13:41
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dneary	Jaffa, It's not straightforward to get direct links to help pages either	13:55
dneary	I had to dig around to get http://library.maemodocs.nokia.com/fremantle/index.jsp?topic=/org.maemo.mica.maemosdk.help.api.c.toolkit/api_refs/5.0/gtk/GtkEntry.html	13:56
mece	uff. that was an epic lunch.	13:57
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Saviq	hi all, any idea if it's possible to send SMS from a script / console / python on the N900?	14:02
mece	Saviq, yes.	14:02
Saviq	mece: can you point me to some docs?	14:02
MohammadAG51	vertsms source	14:02
Saviq	cool thanks	14:02
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mece	:)	14:03
mece	yes, I channeled my thoughts through MohammadAG51's keyboard :D	14:03
MohammadAG51	lol	14:04
mece	MohammadAG51, testing a renamed package for libhildonfm2 now. Let's see if the update bug doesn't annoy.	14:05
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marcus	MohammedAG51: Do you know anything about this problem I have	14:09
marcus	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55751	14:09
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SpeedEvil	You're accessing talk.maemo.org?	14:11
SpeedEvil	I'm not sure that's curable.	14:11
mece	hehehe	14:11
marcus	:'(	14:11
marcus	Am I doomed then?	14:11
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SpeedEvil	The libs+= line looks a likely cndidate	14:12
Stskeeps	marcus: MADDE isn't good for SDL, i think	14:12
Stskeeps	i might be wrong though	14:12
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marcus	SpeedEvil: I thought so as well, but the output got errors, and it looked like it tried to find the libraries _inside_ the folders of the deb pkg.	14:13
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SpeedEvil	hmm	14:16
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marcus	Oooh, pretty. I think it managed out fine.	14:17
marcus	Just needed the - in front of lSDL & lSDL_image	14:17
marcus	So I guess I just put the .deb file onto my n900, and install it?	14:18
marcus	Anyone mind giving me the command again? :)	14:18
SpeedEvil	dpkg -i foo.deb?	14:18
marcus	I need root, aye?	14:19
nidO	dpkg -i or just open it in file manager and ham should install it	14:19
marcus	Haven't used dpkg much, using Arch here.	14:19
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crashanddie	dpkg won't install dependencies	14:21
hrw	Jaffa: hermes is your app - right?	14:21
crashanddie	it is	14:21
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Saviq	mece: VertSMS doesn't seem to work for me - it does put the sms into the rtcomm database, but no sms came through :/	14:21
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marcus	hmm	14:22
marcus	a question though: the binary is then located in /usr/bin/foo, what about img files then? Where should they be located?	14:22
marcus	Currently, it should be reading them from the place the binary is, but that is just stupid to put them in /usr/bin .3	14:23
marcus	:3	14:23
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hrw	bug 8369 got update	14:25
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8369 "Something went wrong" error when browser switchboard is installed	14:25
hrw	Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.nokia.osso_browser was not provided by any .service files	14:26
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TigerTael	How the hell did I get a game installed on my N900 called 'them bloody ducks'?	14:36
TigerTael	All I did was uninstall opera mobile	14:36
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Stskeeps	TigerTael: i think TomaszD ran into that too, that it installed an random app when uninstalling one or something	14:38
lcuk	mornin Stskeeps croppa	14:39
lcuk	damn	14:39
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lcuk	croppa, sorry, was aiming for crashanddie	14:39
BCMM	can the	14:39
BCMM	email client display source and headers?	14:40
TigerTael	Stskeeps, yeah, I was trying to uninstall it and I saw that it said downloading about 500kb's...	14:40
TigerTael	I was like, downloading?	14:40
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mece	MohammadAG51, damn that dpkg is a wimp.	14:44
mece	MohammadAG51, didn't even want to overwrite a file, just because it was also in another package.	14:44
mece	MohammadAG51, --force-overwrite did the trick though.	14:45
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mece	about the crash, I wonder if it's something cached that is incompatible with the new version of libhildonfm2.so that needs to recache before you launch the app.	14:46
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mmarc__	I need libgl-dev, that is removed from 5 sdk final. is there an alternative place to get it or could you please share, if you have it?	14:50
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mece	I remember there being some log of what happened when a device crash. Where is that thing?	14:52
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flailingmonkey	there is "boot_reason" but there could also be more logs that are created	14:52
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* noobmonk3y wohooooooooooooo's		14:56
SpeedEvil	oopses are stored on a seperate partition	14:57
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mece	flailingmonkey, where is boot_reason then?	14:57
SpeedEvil	/proc	14:57
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mece	hahha pwr_key	14:58
mece	damn	14:58
mece	ok so.. renamed the package so it no longer messes with firmware stuff.	14:59
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mece	However, I don't think this would ever be installable through ham for example, since it overwrites a file that belongs to another package.	15:00
noobmonk3y	mece: ?	15:00
noobmonk3y	Healthcheck is the most popular utility software on Maemo5 :) - yay	15:00
mece	the modified file manager chooser picker thingamabob	15:00
mece	noobmonk3y, LIES! I don't have it, so it can't be the most popular!	15:01
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* noobmonk3y slaps mece around a bit with healthcheck		15:01
nidO	I do have it, so it must be	15:01
nidO	cant say I use it though!	15:01
* noobmonk3y agrees with nidO		15:01
noobmonk3y	nidO: lol ;)	15:01
kaie	will flashing the n810 securely erase all previous bits stored in /home/user ?	15:01
cehteh	noobmonk3y: lol .. yeah we all use it daily :P	15:01
noobmonk3y	its an app that needs to be used after you've screwed up your n900 normally	15:01
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nidO	damn I hate nationwide.	15:02
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* lcuk smashes a frozen trout over noobmonk3y's head		15:03
lcuk	oooops, i thought it had thawed	15:03
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mmarc__	how to become root in scratchbox?	15:04
kwtm	Hello. With what software can I transfer files from my laptop (running K/Ubuntu) onto my N900? Am I stuck with "scp" or is there a better file manager?	15:04
mmarc__	or howto set ui to 0?	15:04
mmarc__	kwtm: nautilus?	15:05
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mmarc__	kwtm: the file manager	15:05
mmarc__	kwtm: or dolphin - default for KDE	15:05
kwtm	mmarc__: Are you referring to the file manager on Kubuntu on my laptop? Or file manager on N900 (which I don't think is Nautilus)?	15:06
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kwtm	mmarc__: Yeah, right now I am on a hotel network where I can't SSH into my N900. However, I can ssh FROM my N900 into a remote server (outside the hotel network).	15:07
mmarc__	I mean you could just plugin your n900 select USB storage mode on its screen, and then Ubuntu/Kubuntu will automatically notify you the storage device is added and you can then browse it with standard file manager	15:07
kwtm	mmarc__: Yes, that's what I did: plugged into USB and selected USB storage mode. Something weird happened:	15:07
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kwtm	on my laptop, I see files and directories. But these are not the same files and directories I see on my N900 on File Manager (or in the shell)!	15:08
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mmarc__	kwtm: yeah, it's normal	15:08
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mece	if anyone dares, you can try this now: http://hedwerks.net/stuff/libhildonfm2-community_2.28.18+0m5-maemo1_armel.deb	15:08
RST38h	mece: What has been changed?	15:08
mece	you need to install with dpkg -i --force-overwrite	15:08
kwtm	I suspect either the directories visible on my laptop are in a subdirectory on the N900, or (less likely) the directory structure on the N900 is contained in a subdirectory of what I see on the laptop.	15:09
mece	RST38h, just lists filename extensions	15:09
mece	to uninstall you need to dpkg -r and then install the original from here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/libh/libhildonfm/	15:09
mece	using dpkg, not ham.	15:09
kwtm	mmarc__: I haven't been able to figure out how the two directory structures are related.	15:09
mmarc__	kwtm: but after you copy something on device and unplug it, you can then see your files with device file manager	15:09
RST38h	mece: Not enough to be worth testing it =)	15:10
kwtm	I tried creating a directory with a unique name on the laptop... couldn't find it.	15:10
kwtm	mmarc__: Oh, I have to unplug it first? I already unmounted. WIll try unplugging.	15:10
mece	RST38h :)	15:10
RST38h	mece: but if you shrink the time to scan large directories (100+ files) I will be the first in line to test it =)	15:10
mmarc__	kwtm: are you trying to find it _after_ unplugging your device ?	15:10
lcuk	mooo	15:10
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mece	RST38h, heee.. perhaps I could. we'll see. I'm off.	15:11
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mmarc__	kwtm: from ssh view all files are placed to ~/MyDocs	15:11
kwtm	mmarc__: Okay, unplugged now. So, for example, I put something in the /MountPointForN900/.documents directory (as seen from the laptop)... Ah, I see. Will try ~/MyDocs	15:12
kwtm	Ahhh.... I see, it's only after unplugging that the files show up... strange, but I guess I will get used to it.	15:12
flailingmonkey	say mece, what if you	15:12
mmarc__	kwtm: yeah, just unplug, and it will appear	15:13
SpeedEvil	kwtm: It's basically (logically) unplugging a virtual disk from the desktop, and plugging it into the phone again	15:13
flailingmonkey	had a script which backed up the original filemanager on install and replaced it on uninstall	15:13
SpeedEvil	kwtm: Bad stuff happens if two boxes try to share disks	15:13
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mmarc__	SpeedEvil: not really. To my belief this way is due to n900 performs some kind of indexing	15:14
kwtm	SpeedEvil: Really? I thought it would be like fish:// or smb:// where the N900 allows a controlled write to the disk.	15:14
flailingmonkey	mece, would that make it possible to package it up for extras?	15:14
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mmarc__	I.e. n900 has some media indexing daemons, that could be trashed if volume is shared	15:14
flailingmonkey	nope, it literally unmounts the fat32 filesystem and then exports it	15:14
_abhishek	how to get glx.h on maemo	15:15
SpeedEvil	mmarc__: you'd be wrong	15:15
kwtm	mmarc__: Ahh... right, the indexing daemons. That makes sense.	15:15
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SpeedEvil	mmarc__: Mydocs is a VFAT filesystem.	15:15
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Appiah	i think its called tracker?	15:15
Appiah	the indexer	15:15
SpeedEvil	mmarc__: With any filesystem, if you mount it from two places at once - bad stuff happens.	15:15
SpeedEvil	mmarc__: It is exported not as a list of files - but as a block device.	15:16
kwtm	SpeedEvil: I also didn't realize that umounting was not enough, and that the n900 had to be unplugged.	15:16
mmarc__	not sure, how it called, but I have succesfully corrupted it once. Terrible idea, IMO.	15:16
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mmarc__	*Terrible mechanism.	15:16
SpeedEvil	mmarc__: So - if the PC does 'rm foo' - the n900 does not get 'rm foo', but 'write block 45,6996,28485.28895' with this data	15:16
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SpeedEvil	It then has to remount the filesystem when the PC is finished with it	15:16
mmarc__	SpeedEvil: and what's about vfat flash card?	15:17
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X-Fade	Just type 'sync' and be done :)	15:17
SpeedEvil	same idea	15:17
kwtm	Thanks guys!	15:17
X-Fade	It is just write back cache.	15:17
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kwtm	It looks like the n900 comes with "PC Suite" software which can be installed on the PC. Does this work on Linux? If not, how do you import contacts from your existing contact list --does it support standard Vcard format?	15:18
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mmarc__	SpeedEvil: oh, yeah, sync makes sense in any case. But there are also additional things on n900	15:18
SpeedEvil	mmarc__: The tracker is _completely_ irrelevant to this.	15:18
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SpeedEvil	mmarc__: The reason it's unmounted is because you cannot have two computers sharing one block device, and both trying to access its filesystem at once.	15:19
mmarc__	kwtm: PC suite works only for Windows. IMO, that's terrible shit for kitchen women.	15:19
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SpeedEvil	mmarc__: Bad stuff - like massive filesystem corruption - happens regularly.	15:19
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SpeedEvil	s/regularly/everytime one writes a file/	15:19
infobot	SpeedEvil meant: mmarc__: Bad stuff - like massive filesystem corruption - happens everytime one writes a file.	15:19
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nextime	kwtm : gammu/wammu should work on n900	15:19
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mmarc__	SpeedEvil: ok, got it, simply the restriction is the block volume cannot be shared between >1 active OSes.	15:20
SpeedEvil	yes	15:20
SpeedEvil	mmarc__: Attempts to get round that are basically horribly complex hacks that will work at best sometimes.	15:20
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dneary	bergie, ping?	15:20
nextime	mmarc__ : you can share it IF the second only 1 os mount it in rw mode and others in read only	15:20
mmarc__	_abhishek: I'm trying to figure out where to get those headers too right now.	15:21
nextime	but you can expect strange things in the read only side	15:21
nextime	if you write something on the rw side	15:21
dneary	bergie, There's some weirdish PHP caching going on with Mediawiki - I'm changing PHP files and nothing is changing.	15:21
mmarc__	_abhishek: the problem is that some wise people removed libgl-dev from arm packages	15:21
dneary	Can you explain to me how this stuff works? (stepping out for a minute, but later)?	15:21
bergie	dneary: you may have to restart the web server, depends on php bytecode cache config	15:22
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_abhishek	mmarc__: that's really bad well I just got something might help you http://www.unrealvoodoo.org/hiteck/projects/maemo/	15:22
TigerTael	calendar.exe exited with code -1073741511	15:22
dneary	bergie, I don't think wiki users would like that	15:22
dneary	Just for a php file edit?	15:22
nextime	dneary : isn't only web browser cache issue? have you tryed to just press f5 to reload?	15:22
TigerTael	Why do I always get this with the Qt Creator simulator? ;/	15:22
dneary	Any way to invalidate the cache instead & force a reload?	15:22
mmarc__	_abhishek: one way I see is to compile libgl-dev from sources for arm, but I need to know how to become su in scratchbox.	15:22
bergie	depends what level the cache is on	15:23
dneary	nextime, Thanks for the suggestion, but no, it's not a web browser cache	15:23
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bergie	dneary: if it is PHP bytecode cache you indeed have to restart Apache	15:23
dneary	bergie, When I change message files, for example, the effects are instantaneous	15:23
_abhishek	mmarc__: well can you tell me where I will get libgl-dev source	15:23
dneary	But module fines don't change anything	15:23
bergie	dneary: but to be honest I don't know how the wiki is configured	15:23
dneary	Funny thing is, changing LocalSettings did.	15:23
dneary	So some of the PHP is cached, and some isn't	15:24
mmarc__	_abhishek: apt-get source libgl-dev	15:24
dneary	What configuration files are used to cache byte code?	15:24
_abhishek	on scratchbox ?	15:24
dneary	I could just turn it off (and slow things down temporarily) while debugging	15:24
_abhishek	and about su I think you can try fakeroot	15:24
_abhishek	mmarc__: and about su I think you can try fakeroot	15:24
mmarc__	_abhishek: yeah, do it under x86 scratchbox mode, and then switch onto arm mode, and compile from there. That's my idea.	15:25
_abhishek	mmarc__: hummm will check that thanks	15:25
dneary	This seems to be at fault: $nt = Title::makeTitleSafe( NS_USER, $target );	15:25
kwtm	Thanks for your very essential help, guys. The #n900 channel is dead, and I would be stuck without some of your guidance. (TOok me 7 days to figure out that there was a user guide contained in my n900)	15:26
SpeedEvil	:/	15:26
SpeedEvil	Deeply stupid that.	15:26
SpeedEvil	It should be in _huge_letters_ on the front of the leaflet in the box	15:26
* Duckboot didn't know that - User Guide - Bah.		15:26
SpeedEvil	Also as a HUGE FLASHING LINK after the 'getting started' video	15:27
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mmarc__	I really HATE such corporate stupidness: WHY THE HELL nokia stuff removed libgl-dev? WHY THE HELL they make me do again the work that was previous done? Is it just to make me use GL\|ES? Forcing is bad nature.	15:27
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SpeedEvil	Having multiple libraries on the device that do the same stuff is bad practice.	15:28
Jaffa	hrw: Yeah	15:28
SpeedEvil	However - this should be clearly signosted in adcance.	15:28
SpeedEvil	:/	15:28
mmarc__	SpeedEvil: IMO, BS. For example, >4 MPI implementations coexist in different distros.	15:29
* SpeedEvil tries to predict the top tmo thread.		15:29
SpeedEvil	chromium being pulled?	15:29
SpeedEvil	mmarc__: On a device with 256M of RAM, it's more important	15:29
Stskeeps	mmarc__: libgl-dev doesn't exist on a N900? :P	15:29
Stskeeps	ie, the chip only supports GLES v1 and v2	15:29
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mmarc__	Stskeeps: libgl-dev was removed from repos, while libgl ittself exists!	15:30
Stskeeps	in fact, you'd be hard pressed to find a ARM device that does full opengl	15:30
Stskeeps	mmarc__: libgl is only in use on the X86 side	15:30
mmarc__	Stskeeps: they both were there previously	15:30
X-Fade	mmarc__: That doesn't make it right ;)	15:30
X-Fade	mmarc__: on x86 you use your own graphics card's GL, on device your use SGX gles.	15:31
mmarc__	Stskeeps: [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/mesa-7.1~RC3-0maemo1] > apt-cache search libgl	15:31
mmarc__	libgl1 - GL library using AIGLX	15:31
mmarc__	Stskeeps: so, it's there, for arm	15:31
Stskeeps	that's just mesa compiled for arm, which is software rendering	15:31
mmarc__	Stskeeps: true, and it's what I need!	15:32
mmarc__	I don't need ES at this point	15:32
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Stskeeps	then install the lib yourself, it doesn't make sense out of the box / in a ssu repo	15:32
mmarc__	But some stupid assh**es removed mesa	15:32
Stskeeps	i would rather say it was sane, as who'd want to use sw rendering? :P	15:33
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mmarc__	Stskeeps: software rendering makes sense for testing. I'd likely see the working ported softwere FISRT, and then consider optimozattions. Isn't that the good way?	15:33
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X-Fade	mmarc__: Testing on device?	15:34
mmarc__	X-Fade: yes	15:34
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crashanddie	why is everything so quiet today?	15:42
E0x	hello ppl	15:42
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hrw	Jaffa: bug 8369 - can I help more?	15:43
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8369 "Something went wrong" error when browser switchboard is installed	15:43
bergie	dneary: the config should be in /etc/php/conf.d/apc.ini	15:43
dneary	OK, thanks	15:44
TigerTael	Just so I get this out there, the My Nokia button in settings just crashes....	15:44
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SpeedEvil	TigerTael: Crashes, in what manner?	15:45
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TigerTael	Hold on, let me try it now	15:46
TigerTael	You click My Nokia, it brings up a page for about a second and then closes, Internal Error, Application "settings" closed.	15:46
TigerTael	I did a fresh flash btw...	15:47
SpeedEvil	Fun.	15:47
SpeedEvil	My nokia has problems.	15:47
TigerTael	I didn't even know what 'My Nokia' was... and still don't. :P	15:47
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TigerTael	It may be the fact that my simcard does not know my cellphone number.	15:47
TigerTael	Or something else.	15:48
pupnik	can a maemo package install an older version of a library for itself?	15:49
Jaffa	hrw: There must be other apps which open web pages. Do they have problems? e.g. a "Donate" button in gPodder's About dialogue?	15:49
SpeedEvil	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10366	15:49
povbot	Bug 10366: MyNokia SMS sent after update without any action from the user	15:49
SpeedEvil	for example	15:49
pupnik	and make it shared	15:49
pupnik	need older libsdl-ttf for angband	15:50
pupnik	dpmg for me	15:50
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TigerTael	SpeedEvil, yeah, i read about the SMS thing... and I never knew what My Nokia was until i saw it now.	15:50
TigerTael	Mine still just crashes straight away. :P	15:51
hrw	Jaffa: witter works fine	15:51
th3hate	What does this command do? cat /dev/zero > /dev/mtd0	15:51
zaheerm	th3hate, doesn't look safe :)	15:51
TigerTael	agreed.	15:52
SpeedEvil	Crashes with, or without costing you money.	15:52
SpeedEvil	th3hate: probably irrecoverably bricks your device.	15:52
SpeedEvil	th3hate: try it, and let us know.	15:52
th3hate	Well someone told me to try it, so i thought its better to ask for i do	15:53
hrw	Jaffa: 'donate' button in currency converter also works	15:53
th3hate	before*	15:53
TigerTael	So I guess I should be happy that 'My Nokia' just crashes and burns for me. :P	15:53
TigerTael	SpeedEvil, I don't think it's costing me money... although I should check.	15:53
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SpeedEvil	th3hate: From where?	15:53
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Dr0ax	Hey	15:54
TigerTael	Okay, i just tried it again and it didn't use any money. Let me reboot and try again.	15:54
E0x	when playing music pulseaudio and mafw-dbus-something , eat the 40% of the cpu	15:55
E0x	this is normal ?	15:55
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th3hate	SpeedEvil: I heard to formats the device	15:55
achipa	the funny thing is it didn't ask me to sign up for MyNokia, and I was able to back out when I clicked on it from settings...	15:55
achipa	(I flashed to PR1.2)	15:55
Dr0ax	Guys, question: Have someone got ettercap and aircrack-ng working on N900?	15:55
SpeedEvil	th3hate: not strictly accurate	15:55
TigerTael	lol, my N900 doesn't want to turn on now.	15:55
th3hate	SpeedEvil: what is it for then?	15:56
SpeedEvil	th3hate: It wipes only the bootloader partition. So all your data is still there - it just won't boot without the attention of nokia wiwht a special programming adaptor.	15:56
dneary	bergie, Nothing there	15:56
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dneary	bergie, Anywhere else I might find it? /etc/apache2/modules.enables/mediawiki maybe?	15:56
TigerTael	Okay, I had to take the battery out and in to turn on my phone.	15:56
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Mece	hello	15:56
mmarc__	_abhishek: I've successfully compiled libgl-dev for armel. Can't promise you good performance, but at least OpenGL-based apps (without ES!) could be compiled for maemo using the following stuff: freeglut3, freeglut3-dev, libgl1 and libgl-dev	15:57
bergie	dneary: maybe regular php.ini	15:57
dneary	or conf.d/mediawiki.conf	15:57
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loufoque_maemo	is there a way to completely mute the audio, so that flash videos don't play sound while in silent mode?	15:58
dneary	$wgMainCacheType = CACHE_MEMCACHED;	15:58
Jaffa	hrw: Thanks. I'll have a look at witter	15:58
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TigerTael	Holy crap, now all of a sudden after weeks and weeks, the My Nokia thing isn't crashing.	15:58
jacekowski	mmarc__: how you solved problem with non existing primitives?	15:58
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dneary	There doesn't appear to be any APC	15:59
TigerTael	So now, the My Nokia app doesn't crash... but I can't click anything either.	15:59
TigerTael	Wait, this may be related to regional settings...	16:00
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TigerTael	Because it changed my region to United Kingdom.	16:00
TigerTael	Changed it and rebooting again.	16:00
_abhishek	mmarc__: well I am trying to get the source but not able to download apt-get source libgl-dev won't work	16:00
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mmarc__		16:01
mmarc__	jacekowski: don't know, they probably are not used, best thing is to check the app. Why when I execute it from X Terminal it says permission denied?	16:01
loufoque_maemo	there is a my nokia app? isn't it just a web link?	16:01
TigerTael	Okay, it's definitely region related.	16:01
mmarc__	_abhishek: check repos are turned on, and then do apt-get update	16:01
TigerTael	loufoque_maemo, it's a section in the settings app actually.	16:01
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TigerTael	If I change my region to 'South Africa', reboot, start My Nokia, it just crashes.	16:02
TigerTael	Thankfully, no money lost. :D	16:02
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jacekowski	mmarc__: thing is that if it will send non existing primitives to graphic chip	16:03
jacekowski	mmarc__: shit will happen	16:03
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crashanddie	TigerTael: Nokia isn't sponsoring the 2010 world cup, so no support for SA this year.	16:03
mmarc__	jacekowski: that's logical! But do you know how to run the app?	16:03
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Jaffa	hrw: Can you try, in X Terminal (or over SSH), as user: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest="com.nokia.osso_browser" --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser/request com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url string:"http:/www.google.com/"	16:03
jacekowski	chmod it	16:04
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jacekowski	chmod 755 app	16:04
jacekowski	and then ./app	16:04
_abhishek	mmarc__: yeah doing the same	16:04
TigerTael	crashanddie, haha.	16:04
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dneary	bergie, Do you know how to invalidate a memcached cache?	16:04
dneary	It appears to be that	16:04
X-Fade	dneary: Just restart memcached	16:05
jacekowski	_abhishek: wait for it to be imported	16:05
jacekowski	_abhishek: and i think you can't get sources of libgl-dev	16:05
mmarc__	jacekowski: sure, I've done chmod +x, but access is still denied, and I wonder what does it mean...	16:05
jacekowski	_abhishek: it would have to be just libgl	16:05
dneary	I think I'd better get a hold of Niels	16:06
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dneary	Ah - there he is :)	16:06
dneary	X-Fade, Didn't do the job	16:06
_abhishek	jacekowski: yeah thanks	16:06
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mmarc__	_abhishek: are you getting the source from x86 freemantle, not from arm?	16:06
hrw	Jaffa: Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.nokia.osso_browser was not provided by any .service files	16:06
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dneary	X-Fade, When I've been making small changes to php files in /usr/share/mediawiki/includes, they have not been taking effect	16:06
_abhishek	mmarc__: I am doing it on x86	16:06
mmarc__	_abhishek: the trick is to get source from x86 and compile from arm	16:06
X-Fade	dneary: restart apache	16:07
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Jaffa	hrw: And what about: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.osso_browser /com/nokia/osso_browser com.nokia.osso_browser.open_new_window string:"http:/www.google.com/"	16:07
jacekowski	X-Fade: what are you using for caching?	16:07
dneary	Changes to LocalSettings, or in messages (a test - superficial change), went through straight away - I just needed to reload	16:07
dneary	But for stuff in includes, no	16:07
_abhishek	mmarc__: is it apt-get source libgl1 ?	16:07
X-Fade	probably apc with stat=off ?	16:07
jacekowski	that's evil	16:08
X-Fade	Changes happen once every few months.	16:08
X-Fade	Saves a lot ;)	16:08
dneary	X-Fade, where's apc?	16:08
mmarc__	_abhishek: ok, then check you have the similar list of /etc/apt/sources.list: http://pastebin.com/9ELHvBxL	16:08
X-Fade	dneary: It is a php cache.	16:08
mmarc__	_abhishek: no-no-no, libgl1-dev	16:08
dneary	X-Fade, There's no /etc/php/conf.d/apc	16:09
jacekowski	X-Fade: so you get like 100% hitrate?	16:09
hrw	Jaffa: nothing	16:09
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mmarc__	_abhishek: there is libgl1 binaries for arm already, they've just wasted headers...	16:09
Jaffa	hrw: doesn't error, but doesn't open the browser either?	16:09
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hrw	Jaffa: exactly	16:09
_abhishek	mmarc__: ok thanks	16:09
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hrw	MDBUS2> com.nokia.osso_browser /com/nokia/osso_browser com.nokia.osso_browser.open_new_window	16:10
hrw	[ERR]: Unknown object path /com/nokia/osso_browser for com.nokia.osso_browser	16:10
lcuk	Jaffa, isnt there something about being as root - are you testing as regular user	16:10
dneary	I haven't had lunch yet	16:10
dneary	bbiaw	16:10
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_abhishek	mmarc__: can you send me you sources.list	16:10
MohammadAG51	dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest="com.nokia.osso_browser" --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser/request com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url string:"URL"	16:11
Jaffa	lcuk: I'm testing as a regular user.	16:11
mmarc__	_abhishek: http://pastebin.com/9ELHvBxL	16:11
lcuk	ok jaffa just making sure	16:11
_abhishek	when I do apt-get source libgl1-dev it says E: Unable to find a source package for libgl1-dev	16:11
* lcuk gets similar oddities		16:11
Jaffa	MohammadAG51: That doesn't work with Browser Switchboard: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8369	16:11
povbot	Bug 8369: "Something went wrong" error when browser switchboard is installed	16:11
MohammadAG51	Jaffa, oh, solved that yesterday	16:11
mmarc__	_abhishek: import repos from my list and then do a apt-get update	16:11
MohammadAG51	hermes right?	16:11
Jaffa	MohammadAG51: Yeah	16:12
MohammadAG51	I don't have browser switchboard installed though	16:12
_abhishek	mmarc__: yeah thanks	16:12
MohammadAG51	it tries to create /dev/null	16:12
MohammadAG51	and gets permission denied	16:12
Jaffa	MohammadAG51: What does?	16:12
MohammadAG51	running as root, authenticating, then rerunning as user solves it	16:12
MohammadAG51	Jaffa, hermes	16:12
X-Fade	Oh ffs, why does google put a full screen background image on their search frontpage. How can I turn that off ;)	16:12
MohammadAG51	it says /dev/null: permission denied	16:13
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Jaffa	MohammadAG51: When?	16:13
MohammadAG51	when it tries to open facebook	16:13
MohammadAG51	hmm	16:13
MohammadAG51	when it send the auth key	16:13
MohammadAG51	after that	16:13
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: igoogle?	16:13
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MohammadAG51	X-Fade, did you get my earlier request? :)	16:14
_abhishek	mmarc__: W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory'	16:14
lcuk	X-Fade, after you have finished advertising for them	16:14
_abhishek	mmarc__: while doing apt-get update	16:14
lcuk	it goes away after you told 10 people about it	16:14
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: no	16:14
Jaffa	MohammadAG51: OK. Then it (python-facebook) does webbrowser.open() which uses the command in gconf to launch a browser. The problem is the one which works with the default browser doesn't work with the DBUS interface provided by Browser Switchboard	16:14
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MohammadAG51	Jaffa, but i don't have browser s. :)	16:15
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Jaffa	MohammadAG51: What do you think you solved? What do you mean by "solved"? How did you solve it?	16:15
achipa	X-Fade: did you import the hoopsfrenzy stuff, was that an automation accident, or was it a user upload/promotion ?	16:15
MohammadAG51	X-Fade, the USBcontrol package is useless, and it caused a lot of speculation, can you take it out of fremantle's repo?	16:16
Jaffa	MohammadAG51: The dbus-send command you pasted is the same one as in hermes.postinst, so it should have been using it already	16:16
mmarc__	_abhishek: that's a warning, not an error	16:16
mmarc__	_abhishek: I have it too	16:16
MohammadAG51	Jaffa, i ran it as root, authenticated, then ran it as user	16:16
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X-Fade	achipa: I think it was not cleaned properly and got reimported.	16:16
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Jaffa	MohammadAG51: But apart from seeing /dev/null, permission denied what was the problem running it as user?	16:16
MohammadAG51	nothing	16:17
MohammadAG51	it just said something went wrong	16:17
Jaffa	So there was a problem?	16:17
MohammadAG51	Jaffa, how do I clear authentication?	16:17
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Jaffa	MohammadAG51: You use 0.8.0 in Extras-devel, or delete some gconf keys in 0.2.x	16:17
MohammadAG51	yes	16:17
MohammadAG51	i'm upgrading it right now	16:18
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: killing	16:18
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MohammadAG51	thanks X-Fade	16:19
Jaffa	hrw: can you use mdbus2 to monitor what DBus stuff happens when you click on a link in witter?	16:19
MohammadAG51	Jaffa, no problems with the new version	16:19
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Jaffa	MohammadAG51: Cool	16:20
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MohammadAG51	Jaffa, only difference on my side is a reboot from yesterday	16:20
achipa	X-Fade: ok, can you re-remove it ?	16:21
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X-Fade	achipa: done	16:21
_abhishek	mmarc__: but still fakeroot apt-get source libgl1-dev Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree... Done E: Unable to find a source package for libgl1-dev	16:21
hrw	Jaffa: moment	16:21
Jaffa	hrw: thanks	16:21
_abhishek	mmarc__: can you send me libgl1-dev source package on mail ?	16:22
mmarc__	_abhishek: what apt-cache search libgl shows?	16:22
mmarc__	"apt-cache search libgl"	16:22
achipa	X-Fade: thanks. Are you OK with the rest of the points in my email regarding QA stuff ?	16:23
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X-Fade	achipa: Will reply to that.	16:23
achipa	X-Fade: ok	16:23
_abhishek	mmarc__: http://pastebin.com/rWXBu0X7	16:23
X-Fade	achipa: But generally, yes.	16:23
mmarc__	_abhishek: so, that's it here: libgl-dev - GL library development files	16:24
mmarc__	without 1	16:24
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hrw	method call sender=:1.225 -> dest=com.nokia.osso_browser serial=53 path=/com/nokia/osso_browser; interface=com.nokia.osso_browser; member=open_new_window string "http://bit.ly/bNhqWQ"	16:25
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_abhishek	mmarc__: mesa_7.1~RC3-0maemo1-recomp1.tar.gz ?	16:25
hrw	method return sender=:1.99 -> dest=:1.225 reply_serial=53	16:25
mmarc__	_abhishek: no	16:25
mmarc__	step into folder mesa-...	16:25
hrw	Jaffa: thats what dbus-monitor --session --monitor said	16:25
_abhishek	mmarc__: ok	16:25
hrw	Jaffa: mdbus2 listening code needs work	16:25
Jaffa	hrw: fair enough. So WTF doesn't that work from dbus-send?	16:26
mmarc__	cd mesa-7.1~RC3-0maemo1/	16:26
mmarc__	dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc	16:26
mmarc__	pardon, fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc	16:26
_abhishek	mmarc__: wait well one more thing where its download the source package	16:26
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MohammadAG51	mmarc__,	16:27
MohammadAG51	why are you building mesa	16:28
mmarc__	?	16:28
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mmarc__	MohammadAG51: there are no dev headers on arm	16:28
mmarc__	someone removed them	16:28
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MohammadAG51	does mesa even work on the PowerVGX	16:28
MohammadAG51	or whatever it's called	16:28
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flailingmonkey	he wants to run OpenGL (non-ES) with software rendering on device, for testing i believe	16:29
mmarc__	MohammadAG51: I've compiled my opengl stuff on ARM (not on X86) under scratchbox, and it could be executed on xephyr. Quiet slow, but it runs well.	16:31
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_abhishek	mmarc__: compiling thanks :)	16:32
mmarc__	MohammadAG51: the problem is that exactly same executable on n900 says "permission denied". Is nokia detecting OpenGL apps and preventing them from running? ;) Seriously, I really wonder why is it happenning. Whatever error could be, but not this one.	16:32
MohammadAG51	chmod +x...	16:32
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: That is because home is mounded noexec.	16:33
mmarc__	MohammadAG51: I did it 1000+ times. It's something else...	16:33
X-Fade	Damn, what is whith my typing today ;)	16:33
flailingmonkey	you can strace the start of that call	16:33
MohammadAG51	see X-Fade's comment	16:33
MohammadAG51	X-Fade, check the nick before you hit enter :P	16:33
X-Fade	mmarc__: Copy the file somewhere else ;)	16:33
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mmarc__	MohammadAG51: wait a minute, noexec? I.e. chmod +x would have no effect?	16:33
MohammadAG51	home can be executed from	16:33
MohammadAG51	MyDocs can't	16:33
flailingmonkey	what arm platform did you run this on before?	16:33
MohammadAG51	in MyDocs, no	16:33
mmarc__	MohammadAG51: aha, let me try:	16:34
flailingmonkey	its fat32, so you can't set permissions at all	16:34
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mmarc__	sure sure, my fault	16:34
flailingmonkey	the filesystem doesn't support them	16:34
flailingmonkey	hows it going now	16:35
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flailingmonkey	did N900 meego hardware adaptation meeting already happen today?	16:37
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lcuk	yes at about 530am	16:38
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mmarc__	MohammadAG51: thanks agian for the hint, placement outside of MyDocs makes sense...	16:40
Mece	mohammadag	16:40
Mece	errm	16:40
Stskeeps	flailingmonkey: minutes are published to mailing list	16:41
flailingmonkey	US east coast is in a bad timezone for those meetings :(	16:41
dneary	X-Fade,	16:42
dneary	Back	16:42
flailingmonkey	1 am wednesdays, i believe	16:42
MohammadAG51	Mece, ?	16:42
MohammadAG51	lcuk, what timezone?	16:43
lcuk	MohammadAG51, that was metaphorical	16:43
lcuk	"early" is the best guess	16:43
lcuk	even for europeans	16:43
MohammadAG51	riiight	16:43
MohammadAG51	so what timezone again?	16:43
lcuk	7am uk time	16:43
MohammadAG51	:P	16:43
MohammadAG51	oh, 5AM my time	16:44
MohammadAG51	err	16:44
MohammadAG51	9	16:44
MohammadAG51	lol	16:44
lcuk	as i said :P early	16:44
flailingmonkey	0600@UTC	16:44
MohammadAG51	meh	16:45
_abhishek	mmarc__: wow its compiled installed thanks a lot man :)	16:45
MohammadAG51	i could've lurked	16:45
flailingmonkey	so 2am for me actually	16:45
MohammadAG51	X-Fade, thanks, it's down (usbcontrol)	16:45
mmarc__	_abhishek: welcome, I just learned this today too :)	16:46
_abhishek	mmarc__: :)	16:46
mmarc__	_abhishek: do not forget to bring both freeglut3 and libgl1 on device too, if you are going to test on device	16:46
mmarc__	_abhishek: and to place apps outside MyDocs	16:46
lcuk	Stskeeps, would it be an idea to try alternative times to see if others want to be involved	16:46
_abhishek	mmarc__: yeah sure thanks	16:47
Stskeeps	lcuk: dunno, it has to be in 9-17 finnish time ideally	16:47
lcuk	sure but as you see flailingmonkey had an interest and i'd lke to see more of the discussion rather than reading scrollback	16:48
GAN900	Screw the Finns	16:48
Stskeeps	GAN900: when 90% of the team is in finland, it's hard to	16:48
GAN900	They so rarely attend meetings anymore anyway. :P	16:48
* lcuk hits GAN900 on the head		16:48
Scelt	GAN900: are you from some other nordic country?	16:48
lcuk	Stskeeps, you just gave a big wide time swath that could be acceptible	16:49
_abhishek	mmarc__: well I got freeglut3-dev.deb for arml but not installing	16:49
lcuk	i speak to finns all day	16:49
mmarc__	_abhishek: are you installing with dpkg -i ?	16:49
_abhishek	mmarc__: yes	16:49
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Scelt	I've found it very annoying that swedes, norwegians and danes have to have a meeting about everything. An hour meeting seems to be mandatory even the matter could be solved in the phone in 5 minutes or by few emails.	16:49
lcuk	Scelt, openness	16:50
mmarc__	_abhishek: use dpkg, since apt-get will fail due some stupid dependencies. IMO, this is totally stupid that dev (!) package has dependencies :)	16:50
jacekowski	lcuk: timewasting	16:50
lcuk	an hour long coordination meeting in the open is better than a 5 minute private phonecall	16:50
flailingmonkey	it seems that later in the finnish work day would be better, but I understand the difficulties of coordinating global meetings	16:50
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jacekowski	lcuk: sometimes it's better to just fix the problem	16:50
jacekowski	lcuk: and then talk about it	16:50
Scelt	lcuk: it still annoys me	16:50
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Scelt	I'm a Finn. I like to drink, not to chat	16:51
lcuk	sure jacekowski and that happens but sometimes planning and organising requires collaboration	16:51
lcuk	and coordination	16:51
visz	Scelt, our views about this seem to differ. i suggest a meeting for further discussion	16:51
SpeedEvil	visz: You need to come to a compromise that Scelt can live with.	16:51
lcuk	Scelt, let it annoy you, but Stskeeps and the qt people and a lot of the meego work is open and accessible to all (timezones not withstanding)_	16:51
SpeedEvil	visz: I suggest a meeting with lots of drink.	16:51
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visz	=)	16:52
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* RST38h moos at lcook		16:52
* lcuk cooks a trout for rstr		16:52
* lcuk cooks a trout for RST38h		16:52
flailingmonkey	perhaps I'll add detailed stuff to the agenda, if there are things I'd like discussed but can't attend	16:52
flailingmonkey	obviously it would have to explain the question well	16:53
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lcuk	flailingmonkey, when things are on the agenda, the meetings like to have a representative to champion it	16:53
lcuk	in the meeting itself	16:53
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lcuk	otherwise people wtf at the first point and dont get past it	16:53
flailingmonkey	yeah, i understand	16:54
Scelt	visz: I'm very relieved that I can answer you no. There was a time when a norwegian boss told me to and I had to obey	16:54
Funnyface	did someone here try easy debian? did the sound work out for you in the latest image? I can't seem to find any info about it, which makes me wonder if it is only me..	16:54
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mmarc__	_abhishek: with dpkg -i -f freeglut should install anyway, but it will still complain about missing dependencies. Currently I dont have better solution, but this one works.	16:55
Scelt	lcuk: ye, I just let my thinkings out loud. I agree to disagree	16:56
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lcuk	Scelt, disagree all you like,but openness requires more open coordination even if that requires more work	16:56
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lcuk	and Stskeeps is doing a great job at it	16:57
Scelt	lcuk: sure. I didn't talk about maemo, meego or anything. I was just talking about annoying scandinavian habbits	16:57
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mmarc__	anybody compiled midnight commander for maemo?	16:57
mmarc__	any issues with it?	16:57
mmarc__	or simply compiles from source?	16:58
_abhishek	mmarc__: thanks	16:58
achipa	mmarc__: it's in Extras :)	16:58
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mmarc__	achipa: great news! thanks	17:03
lcuk	Scelt, i think we should take up SpeedEvil's suggestion of a meetign to clarify your objectives	17:04
mmarc__	YAY! My OpenGL sample executes on device, one thing: the keyboard is not working	17:05
achipa	X-Fade: that hoops thing is really stubborn - it's back again :)	17:06
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flailingmonkey	a keyboard focus issue?	17:06
mmarc__	flailingmonkey: sorry, I don't know. Original OpenGL apps were using straight keyboard callbacks	17:07
Scelt	lcuk: I think it was visz	17:07
lcuk	mmarc__, sure if you arent using gtk or qt the keyboard focusing doesnt hold	17:07
lcuk	Scelt, sure but you can come too	17:07
mmarc__	flailingmonkey: hmm, but yes, the symbols I'm typing are echoed on the underlying X terminal I'm starting from	17:08
mmarc__	flailingmonkey: and no gtk, no qt	17:08
flailingmonkey	Scelt, otherwise the meeting wouldn't represent all view points	17:08
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flailingmonkey	:-p	17:08
mmarc__	flailingmonkey: you mean I need some extra circuit to get keyboard focus in my app?	17:08
Scelt	lcuk: ;NO! I've flown too many times for no real reason. It has to end	17:09
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rlinfati	hi, how i can disable the software updater on maemo5 ?	17:09
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flailingmonkey	rlinfati, I suppose you could go into app manager and disable every repository	17:10
jaska	you can change the update interval	17:10
flailingmonkey	i don't know what controls the schedule of update checks though	17:10
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mmarc__	OMG, why so black font in mc??	17:11
jaska	http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo	17:11
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mmarc__	are you going to hurt your eyes?..	17:11
jaska	at Disabling Auto Updates Check	17:11
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mmarc__	ah, the black font is for hidden files	17:12
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rlinfati	jaska, thanks !!	17:12
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X-Fade	achipa: Ah crap, nice bug.	17:23
timeless_mbp	?	17:23
MohammadAG51	Zoutube broke grrr	17:23
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MohammadAG51	is the zoutube download function broken for anyone?	17:37
vldcnst	yes, hasn't worked for days	17:37
zaheerm	which version?	17:38
zaheerm	the one in extras-devel or extras?	17:38
MohammadAG51	well	17:39
MohammadAG51	the extras one is just borked	17:39
MohammadAG51	the -devel one can't download	17:39
zaheerm	will fix the download and push another one into -devel today	17:40
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MohammadAG51	zaheerm, oh you're the dev?	17:41
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th3hate	tried to download zoutube yesterday, it's broken for me too	17:42
zaheerm	yes	17:42
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MohammadAG51	cutributeError: YoutubeWithMediaPlayer instance has no attribute 'current_format'	17:43
MohammadAG51	err	17:43
MohammadAG51	AttirbuteError*	17:43
MohammadAG51	missed the first two letters	17:43
zaheerm	MohammadAG51, thx you saw that on console when doing what?	17:43
MohammadAG51	yeah	17:44
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MohammadAG51	zaheerm, as a quick fix, what are these variables	17:44
MohammadAG51	http://www.youtube.com/get_video?video_id=%s&t=%s	17:44
MohammadAG51	%s is the video 'ID' right	17:45
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zaheerm	what line number do you see that error?	17:45
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zaheerm	667?	17:45
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zaheerm	MohammadAG51, k found the bug, fixing now and packaging it up	17:46
MohammadAG51	667	17:46
MohammadAG51	yeah	17:46
MohammadAG51	cool, thanks :)	17:46
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MohammadAG51	zaheerm, 15 minutes till the importer runs	17:47
MohammadAG51	:)	17:47
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zaheerm	MohammadAG51, well building local package first	17:48
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MohammadAG51	zaheerm, I'm just saying, you have ten mins to upload if you want it there asap :P	17:50
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zaheerm	MohammadAG51, lol pushed it to autobuilder	17:51
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MohammadAG51	zaheerm, cool, then it should be there at :5	17:52
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frals	Mece: pong	17:52
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zaheerm	MohammadAG51, ok it was successful in autobuilder	17:53
MohammadAG51	well, it's a python app :P	17:53
Mece	frals, I forget what I pinged you about :P	17:54
th3hate	Is there a way to check if the vibrator is dead? like a terminal command	17:54
Appiah	healthcheck	17:54
Appiah	is good for checking everything	17:55
celesteh	my syncing to google has been screwed up since around the time of the last OS upgrade	17:55
MohammadAG51	th3hate, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS	17:55
MohammadAG51	i think	17:55
th3hate	Maybe something like: # ls /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/ ?	17:55
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chem\|st	Appiah: turn on touchscreen vibration	17:56
Appiah	chem\|st: ?	17:56
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MohammadAG51	it's very rare for the whole vibration controller to break	17:56
MohammadAG51	Appiah, he pinged the wrong guy :P	17:56
Appiah	oh	17:56
chem\|st	Appiah: settings > display >touch screen vibration	17:56
* Appiah is slow		17:56
chem\|st	Appiah: no its me sry	17:57
MohammadAG51	chem\|st, he never asked for it lol	17:57
chem\|st	;)	17:57
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* MohammadAG51 slaps crashanddie		17:57
chem\|st	MohammadAG51: jeah overread it... was the guy above	17:57
chem\|st	th3hate: read it?	17:57
dneary	Still stuch	17:57
dneary	I've added a bunch of wfDebugs in there now, and nothing gives	17:58
dneary	X-Fade, When you do this kind of thing, how do you do the debugging?	17:58
zaheerm	MohammadAG51, yes makes it a quick build too :)	17:59
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th3hate	chem\|st: Vibrator only vibrator stops working after 10 mins of uptime, but works first 10 mins	17:59
th3hate	what do you think the problem is?	18:00
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MohammadAG51	zaheerm, did the old app use the DSP?	18:01
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MohammadAG51	the old version allowed videos in the background	18:02
zaheerm	MohammadAG51, yes for h264 decoding	18:02
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MohammadAG51	zaheerm, oh, so why did you switch to the media player?	18:02
zaheerm	correct, it allowed videos in background...now i shifted responsibility to the media player	18:02
zaheerm	MohammadAG51, because its video widget is better	18:03
DrGrov	How is there no themes in extras repositories now? Just the an-DROID theme?	18:03
zaheerm	and i haven't had time to improve the one in zoutube much, so until i do i will leave it to media player	18:03
DrGrov	No other ones? Is it really this slow development in themes?	18:03
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Stskeeps	DrGrov: people don't test themes, it seems	18:03
MohammadAG51	I don't	18:04
DrGrov	Stskeeps: yes it does seem like that. there seems to be many themes in the devel repositories	18:04
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Mece	is carbon in testing? awesome theme!	18:04
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG51: the motor breaking is not uncommon	18:05
DrGrov	Themes are generally considered "safe" to install without any major complications?	18:05
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SpeedEvil	yes	18:05
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Mece	DrGrov, there are no guarantees with devel stuff though.	18:05
SpeedEvil	though in some cases themes can mean you can't see hte screen	18:05
SpeedEvil	so to be safe - stick with extras	18:06
DrGrov	Mece: ok, so better to stay away then?	18:07
DrGrov	SpeedEvil: ah, then it is definitely that I stay away LOL	18:07
Tachikoma	the problem with devel and testing at least for me is that once i see all the stuff available I want to try it out :)	18:07
Mece	drgrov, wouldn't say that. it could be a good idea to check tmo for comments on said theme before installing.	18:07
DrGrov	Mece: yes, I will try them if comments are positive. There is the beautiful Nuvofre theme I would love to test.	18:08
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Tachikoma	Are all themes in testing/devel optified yet? I would not assume that	18:08
Mece	tachikoma, no idea.	18:08
Tachikoma	DrGrov: where do you know from how the theme looks like?	18:08
SpeedEvil	Tachikoma: It's not unreasonable to do so - also - look at the app page - to see if there are any 'this app ate my kitten' reports.	18:08
SpeedEvil	And any thumbs-down	18:08
Mece	tachikoma, announce thread on tmo	18:09
DrGrov	Tachikoma: i have seen screenshots	18:09
Tachikoma	Mece: I just relized the nokia shipped themes are eating up quite some spae on / - so i would not be surprised if others do that as well	18:09
SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/	18:09
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SpeedEvil	For example.	18:09
SpeedEvil	The top item on that list has karma 15 - rapier.	18:09
Tachikoma	DrGrov: yes - where - i always look for screenshots - already started to make my own so i can better compare	18:09
SpeedEvil	That may mean that 15 more people voted it up than voted it down	18:09
Mece	thanks speedevil, I was just about to ask for a link to the queue	18:09
* ZogG is back (gone 106:29:48)		18:09
DrGrov	Tachikoma: ok, let me find it for you	18:10
SpeedEvil	so it's probably safe to install.	18:10
DrGrov	Tachikoma: http://www.mobile-geeks.com/2010/02/09/maemo-theme-nuvofre-theme-for-nokia-n900/	18:10
SpeedEvil	Then you click on the version page - http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/rapier/1.0.5-3/	18:10
Tachikoma	DrGrov: thanks, bookmarked	18:10
DrGrov	This Nuvofre theme is something that definitely should get into extras hopefully fast as possible	18:11
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MohammadAG51	zaheerm, looks like it got imported - checking	18:11
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SpeedEvil	And you see that the GUI probably isn't very pretty - and it sticks a hundred k in / - but nobody making any 'broke my device' comments	18:11
zaheerm	MohammadAG51, thx	18:11
SpeedEvil	(this of course doesn't mean it won't break your device)	18:11
DrGrov	Tachikoma: you are welcome	18:12
Tachikoma	SpeedEvil: what do you mean? I have a script to install from testing and extras that does basically record disk space, powertop oputput and some other things, then installs a package and then recoords the values again - then some awk/diff and i usually have a pretty good impression about the optification and so on	18:13
SpeedEvil	Tachikoma: that would be a good thing to polish a little, and share.	18:13
Tachikoma	SpeedEvil: i believe so, I was a bit active in the beginnig of the Qa discussion but soon got bored	18:14
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SpeedEvil	you know about sync?	18:14
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SpeedEvil	Even just jam it up on http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing/QA_Checklist	18:14
SpeedEvil	as a link saying 'work in progress, please fix'	18:14
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Tachikoma	right now i don;t have it, i reflashed when 1.2 came out to factory state, no backups - but will redo that soon	18:15
Tachikoma	And my personal experience with testing and devel is that there are only very few really broken packages.	18:16
Tachikoma	it's more issues like wronf screen resolution and such things	18:16
zaheerm	Tachikoma, devel is straight from autobuilder so definitely will be quite a few broken ones!	18:16
Tachikoma	zaheerm: i di only hit a few yet	18:16
Tachikoma	but also installed only based on my needs, so mostly games ;)	18:16
Mece	hey nice. I have 214 more karma than last time I checked :D	18:16
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MohammadAG51	zaheerm, yep, you fixed it, thanks :)	18:16
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MohammadAG51	zaheerm, why don't you push it into extras-testing?	18:17
MohammadAG51	the one in extras is borked	18:17
zaheerm	MohammadAG51, yah will do	18:17
Tachikoma	but with the whole meego/harmattan stuff going on I do not actively ork on anything related to n900 at the moment	18:17
SpeedEvil	Mine too.	18:17
Tachikoma	I don;t even know anymore what the current devel system is, i assume that scratchbox got replaced?	18:17
SpeedEvil	Worst thing I've seen with extras-devel is apps that can't be exited	18:17
Tachikoma	SpeedEvil: ssh into the box	18:18
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SpeedEvil	Tachikoma: or power-button/camera button to get to a menu	18:18
Tachikoma	and then ctrl/backspace goes to taskmanager screen where i can kill	18:18
SpeedEvil	camera is probably more reliable - ctrl-backspace doesn't work sometimes for me	18:18
SpeedEvil	dunno why	18:18
Tachikoma	what annoys much more are the non adopted apps that assume that every keyboard in the world has an up, down, left and right key :)	18:19
hrw	Jaffa: I updated bug 8369	18:19
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8369 "Something went wrong" error when browser switchboard is installed	18:19
Tachikoma	well - the german keyboard layout does not really have an own button for each of these directions ...	18:19
flux	tachikoma, well, to be fair, it's not that bad assumption :)	18:19
Tachikoma	there the up and down key is shift combined with the left and right key ...	18:20
SpeedEvil	A bit more requirements might be nice.	18:20
Tachikoma	flux: i'm not really complaining here ;)	18:20
flux	(grumble grumble, would one extra row of keys have killed them..)	18:20
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SpeedEvil	'Your app if it's a statusbar widget, or may be invisible to the user when running must appear in settings'	18:20
Tachikoma	as long as i can switch to us layout, which i now try to memorize so i don;t have to use german anymore at all	18:20
SpeedEvil	For example.	18:20
Tachikoma	SpeedEvil: you mean the descriptions?	18:21
SpeedEvil	Tachikoma: I mean - for example - I ahve 'lens cover reminder' installed.	18:22
SpeedEvil	Without the entry in the 'settings' application - it would be much harder to work out what I have installed.	18:22
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Tachikoma	well, currently i only have the powerkernel and the mobilehotspot stuff from devel/testing, nothing else - system is still clean	18:23
SpeedEvil	Basically 'stuff that runs with no user interaction and does not appear in the applications list must have some way for the user to discover it's running' or something similar	18:23
frals	timeless_mbp: got any recommended places for takeout around NRC?	18:23
Tachikoma	SpeedEvil: i can't follow - you don't know what you have installed?	18:24
timeless_mbp	what do you want?	18:24
Tachikoma	i check with dpk -l \| grep ii	18:24
timeless_mbp	there's a pizza place across the street	18:24
Tachikoma	dpkg -l \| grep ii	18:24
timeless_mbp	and a chinese place	18:24
frals	whats available in a short walk except mcd and subway?	18:24
timeless_mbp	there's a subway down the end	18:24
timeless_mbp	there are a few places around the corner from the metro	18:24
SpeedEvil	Tachikoma: I mean for normal users.	18:24
frals	im at holiday inn atm	18:24
Tachikoma	dpkg -l to my knowledge shows every installed package	18:24
timeless_mbp	ok	18:24
SpeedEvil	Tachikoma: I just read hex-dumps of the filesystem.	18:24
frals	the chinese any good?	18:25
Tachikoma	SpeedEvil: oh, ok	18:25
timeless_mbp	i'm quite happy w/ it	18:25
Tachikoma	didn't get that	18:25
timeless_mbp	note this is the one across from nokia	18:25
Jaffa	hrw: Cool. I think 0.8.1's postinst sets that command (now in -devel). Testing welcome.	18:25
timeless_mbp	the one closer to you costs more at night	18:25
frals	ok	18:25
timeless_mbp	(it's a good deal during lunch hour where it's an all you can eat buffet)	18:25
frals	well it takes like 5min to go to NRC from here so	18:25
Tachikoma	yeha, i would not recommend testing / devel to normal users despite my not too bad experience up to now	18:25
timeless_mbp	but definitely check out the shops to the right of the metro	18:25
timeless_mbp	Nokia \| McD's \| Metro \| Food places \| <random stuff> \| You	18:26
timeless_mbp	Nokia and You are on the wrong side of the street, but	18:26
* timeless_mbp has to run		18:26
frals	alright, cheers	18:26
timeless_mbp	Apt meeting	18:26
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frals	have fun o/	18:26
Jaffa	hrw: Nope, it'll be in 0.8.2 which'll go out this evening	18:26
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timeless_mbp	if you can wait an hour	18:27
timeless_mbp	sp3000 and myself could do dinner w/ ya	18:27
Mece	hey how should one approach uninstallation of something that replaces a part of the firmware?	18:27
SpeedEvil	put it back?	18:27
SpeedEvil	i don't see another solution.	18:27
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Mece	speedevil, yeah, but how?	18:27
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Mece	I'm talking about how one could automate it..	18:28
SpeedEvil	copy it in preinstall, put it back in uninstall?	18:28
hrw	Jaffa: ok, will try it on monday	18:28
* SpeedEvil isn't sure how this packaging stuff works.		18:28
Mece	speedevil, sure.. postinst and preinst scripts.	18:28
Mece	i mean preinst and postrm	18:29
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flailingmonkey	wouldn't you just copy original somewhere in preinst, and copy it back in postrm? or is the problem that it would be inus	18:35
flailingmonkey	s/inus/use	18:35
flailingmonkey	how do I make infobot fix my mistakes?	18:36
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hcm	flailingmonkey: use a trailing slash	18:36
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hcm	s/trailing/trailed/	18:38
infobot	hcm meant: flailingmonkey: use a trailed slash	18:38
hcm	;)	18:38
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DocScrutinizer51	he knows even global substtitution when he's told so	18:38
frals	timeless_mbp: im about to die from starvation, but some other evening :)	18:38
DocScrutinizer51	s/he /she /g	18:39
infobot	DocScrutinizer51 meant: she knows even global substtitution when he's told so	18:39
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DocScrutinizer51	tzzz, or not	18:39
DocScrutinizer51	blah	18:39
hcm	is there a autokick on some forbidden words? then you could kick infobot using this substitution feature ;)	18:39
DocScrutinizer51	he knows even global substtitution when he is told so	18:39
Mece	flailingmonkey, that probly would work.	18:39
DocScrutinizer51	s/he /she /g	18:39
infobot	DocScrutinizer51 meant: she knows even global substtitution when she is told so	18:39
crashanddie	hcm: autokick is lame	18:40
flailingmonkey	aaah	18:40
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hcm	crashanddie: yes, but it would be fun tu kick infobot :P	18:40
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crashanddie	why?	18:40
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jacekowski	DocScrutinizer51: whe?	18:40
marmoute	does she know about regexp ?	18:40
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer51: she?	18:40
marmoute	s/^does/hoy/	18:41
DocScrutinizer51	~attack jacekowski	18:41
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing jacekowski		18:41
SpeedEvil	DCC SE	18:41
Mece	docscrutinizer, did you ever get that modded filemanager?	18:41
SpeedEvil	s/SE/SEND startk/	18:41
infobot	SpeedEvil meant: DCC SEND startk	18:41
jacekowski	~confess	18:41
SpeedEvil	...	18:41
DocScrutinizer51	Mece: 1.1.1 here	18:41
jacekowski	hmm, bot on #amarok has ~confess	18:41
jacekowski	17:41 < jacekowski> ~confess	18:42
jacekowski	17:41 <@insanity> i am going out with the guy its been almost a year. i dont love him at all but i dont have the guts to break up with him because he is head over heals for me and it will completely break him. it hurts be to be with him because i want to be with other people. But i cant	18:42
jacekowski	just hurt him that bad. I dont know what to do.	18:42
Mece	docscrutinizer, ah. probly wont work then. what do you get on dpkg -l libhildonfm2	18:42
jacekowski	there used to be two bots on that channel	18:42
dneary	X-Fade, Restarting both memcached and apache doesn't appear to have the desired effect	18:42
flailingmonkey	the problem you run into is if the file gets changed by another update. but that fortunately takes forever with Maemo 5 :P	18:42
dneary	I'm starting to wonder if it's picking up the includes somewhere else...	18:42
crashanddie	hcm: http://bash.org/?178890	18:43
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X-Fade	dneary: Then you need to trace if that happens.	18:43
dneary	So, that's the problem	18:43
Mece	flailingmonkey, well that would only need a reinstallation. besides the program would prevent ota update.	18:43
dneary	I asked how you did your tracing before	18:43
hcm	crashanddie: yes I know that one ;)	18:43
dneary	Because all the wfDebug() calls I'm putting in never get logged	18:43
X-Fade	dneary: Just printing.	18:43
flailingmonkey	aha	18:44
dneary	And a simple print will go into Apache's logs?	18:44
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X-Fade	dneary: No, the page itself.	18:44
dneary	X-Fade, I've been avoiding that because it's quite disruptive	18:45
X-Fade	dneary: Print it inside html comments then?	18:45
X-Fade	dneary: <!-- -->	18:45
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dneary	X-Fade, I know what HTML comments look like	18:48
dneary	X-Fade, I also know that mediawiki uses some kind of weird templating system to allow for internationalisation and all that jazz...	18:48
dneary	I'll figure something out.	18:48
X-Fade	dneary: Write it out to file then?	18:49
dneary	I still don't get how you see this happening	18:49
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X-Fade	dneary: debugging is a bit of a black art.	18:50
dneary	I say "I've made a bunch of changes to files to log things, but nothing is getting logged, I think the files might be getting picked up from somewhere else"	18:50
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dneary	and you say "add traces then"	18:50
dneary	Have you ever hacked around with mediawiki?	18:50
dneary	I am missing something...	18:51
dneary	Anyway - like I said, I'll figure it out eventually	18:51
X-Fade	dneary: Sure I have. It is just php.	18:51
Mece	what's our policy on stuff that replaces bits of firmware? will stuff like that ever make it to extras?	18:51
X-Fade	Mece: If it breaks SSU, probably not.	18:51
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Mece	x-fade, ok.	18:52
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alterego	what's the problem with chromium?	18:53
X-Fade	Mece: Although you could start thinking about a community SSU like we have for Diablo.	18:53
alterego	why has it been removed?	18:53
alterego	Is google being ghey?	18:53
X-Fade	No, not google.	18:54
X-Fade	Some company having issues with google.	18:54
alterego	oh, then who?	18:54
alterego	oh, weird	18:54
SpeedEvil	Nokias lawyers.	18:54
X-Fade	No.	18:54
Mece	x-fade, that would be sweet.	18:54
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X-Fade	Red Bend	18:54
crashanddie	God I'm so frigging bored	18:54
SpeedEvil	Seem to be worried about a cease and desist order from some company that alledge chromium is using their technology.	18:54
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dneary	partial result	18:55
SpeedEvil	The version of chromium in the repo had those bits ripped out. But the lawyers were still reportedly unhappy.	18:55
dneary	Broke something	18:55
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ptl	MohammadAG51: are you there?	18:59
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Mece	i'm off. toodles.	18:59
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ptl	MohammadAG51: I've read a post by you where you compiled a non-crippled version of apt for the N900 -- http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=58454 - but the URL does not work. Do you still have it?	19:00
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frals	o/ VDVsx	19:11
Stskeeps	moo frals, vdvsx	19:11
frals	ehlo Stskeeps	19:11
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* Stskeeps is really not happy about it being 31 C outside		19:12
flailingmonkey	ouch, where are you	19:12
dneary	X-Fade, Found it	19:12
dneary	X-Fade, Evil evil stuff	19:12
frals	Stskeeps: send it over here... summer in finland means its clear blue sky but you can still wear a jacket without breaking a sweat :\|	19:13
dneary	X-Fade, There was an out-of-date includes directory in /var/lib/mediawiki, and a different, modified, also out-of-date one in /usr/share§mediawiki	19:13
dneary	http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Contributions/dneary works now	19:13
X-Fade	dneary: Hmm, not good.	19:14
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X-Fade	dneary: Symlink gone bad?	19:14
dneary	And I am going to do what has been done for every other directory and make /var/lib/includes a symlink	19:14
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dneary	Just no symlink at all	19:14
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dneary	It's a messy set-up	19:14
dneary	So I was right about not being in the right place	19:15
X-Fade	Hmm I guess it is a copy of the old server, where symlinks got converted to dirs.	19:15
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dneary	I think it's a relic from when I put everything in svn	19:15
dneary	ferenc probably just did an svn co of the includes in both places	19:15
dneary	And the "wrong" one was getting picked up	19:16
dneary	The funny thing was, includes/Wiki.php was getting taken from /usr/share/mediawiki, but all of the rest of the includes were getting picked up from /var/lib/mediawiki - not sure how that happened	19:17
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BCMM	how can i clear my dns cache?	19:23
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mmarc__	hi, guys, could you please suggest a best set of optimization options for gcc on n900?	19:29
derf	-O2	19:31
mmarc__	cmon, how about mtune?	19:31
derf	All of that should be set correctly by default in the SDK.	19:31
mmarc__	really? It assumes some optimization defaults when running "gcc" ?	19:32
wolf^	especially when you're calling gcc from makefile...	19:32
mmarc__	-mfpu=vfp ?	19:32
derf	It assumes some architecture defaults, because, you know, the people who put the SDK together knew what architecture you'd be targeting.	19:32
wolf^	mmarc__, I use -O3 -march=armv7-a -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp -ftree-vectorize -ffast-math -fsingle-precision-constant	19:33
mmarc__	that's what I need! Thanks much, wolf^	19:33
derf	Yay for placebos, I guess.	19:33
wolf^	yes, your guessing is much better than my benchmarks	19:34
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BCMM	O3 - questionable	19:35
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wolf^	some tight blitter loops were faster with it iirc	19:36
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BCMM	anyway, how does one restart a service?	19:39
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SpeedEvil	start foo	19:39
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SpeedEvil	or restart	19:39
dneary	I can't believe I spent nearly 2 days chasing down a fucking ghost	19:40
jcrawford	is there a website anywhere that explains the different icons you see in the status area near the clock>	19:40
dneary	And I still don't understand how that happened	19:40
jcrawford	i see an odd icon that looks like a tilted 8 with a red ! in it but don't see it when I click on the status area and the window appears	19:40
SpeedEvil	screenshot?	19:40
nas_	maybe is from a widget / application you installed ? ?	19:41
jcrawford	SpeedEvil, if i knew how to take a screen shot on the device i would lol	19:41
SpeedEvil	ctrl-shift-p	19:41
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jcrawford	SpeedEvil, that does not seem to do it for me :(	19:43
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jcrawford	at-least they don't show up under pictures	19:43
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DocScrutinizer51	MyDocs/.images/Screenshots	19:45
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jcrawford	ah	19:46
trumee	anybody using sip on n900?	19:46
Surfa	yes	19:46
jcrawford	ah hell i dont have my computer cable with me, just the charger	19:46
jcrawford	:(	19:46
DocScrutinizer51	sip, sure	19:46
trumee	Surfa, my voice gets minced after 2 minutes of usage	19:46
Surfa	trumee, ok, haven't talked for 2 minutes (probably(	19:47
trumee	i am running my own * server with g729	19:47
nextime	trumee: try to use another codec	19:47
nextime	if you are on local LAN mayne just Alaw or Ulaw are ok	19:47
nextime	*meyBe	19:48
nextime	uff	19:48
trumee	nextime: i have used PCMU	19:48
nextime	mAyBe	19:48
nextime	:D	19:48
nextime	trumee : try A-law	19:48
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luke-jr	nextime: now you're just running him through useless hoops	19:48
luke-jr	trying g729 and ulaw means it isn't a codec-related issue	19:49
trumee	nextime: Bug 6936 is what i am facing	19:49
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6936 Caller voice gets minced after some time when taking call via SIP	19:49
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trumee	the devs think it is fixed but it is not	19:49
nextime	luke-jr : depend if on the asterisk side it is doing transcoding or not	19:49
nextime	usually the ppstn use a-law	19:49
trumee	i have to use n95 to make sip calls now :(	19:49
DocScrutinizer51	I'm quite sure a audio problem showing up after 120s won't depend on codec used	19:49
nextime	so, using another codec, even u-law, can make the call problematic	19:49
jcrawford	where are the photos taken with the camera stored? I want to copy the screenshot there from term so that i can email it to post :)	19:49
luke-jr	nextime: err, usually not in my experience	19:50
luke-jr	basically every ITSP I've seen supports ulaw	19:50
luke-jr	I've never seen anyone use alw	19:50
luke-jr	alaw*	19:50
trumee	i am running my own * server. the extensions are remote though. the calls doesnt go over pstn at all.	19:50
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nextime	luke-jr : at least here both BRI and PRI ISDN are default on alaw	19:51
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trumee	doesnt n900 use sofia sip stack. why is this opensource implementation buggy.	19:51
nextime	anyway, this was why i was saying "try alaw"	19:52
luke-jr	nextime: of course, ISDN doesn't exist in the real world... :p	19:52
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nextime	luke-jr : uh?	19:52
RST38h	all right	19:52
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RST38h	what is cooking?	19:52
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Stskeeps	luke-jr: i've had isdn at home :P	19:52
trumee	anybody here actually uses sip over wifi a lot? i am interested to know what codec they use.	19:52
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MOUD	Hey all	19:52
luke-jr	Stskeeps: you're in Poland, not the real world	19:52
nextime	luke-jr : i don't know where you live, but here isdn is very common	19:52
luke-jr	:p	19:52
nextime	every home line is ISDN	19:52
Stskeeps	luke-jr: was in denmark	19:52
Stskeeps	:P	19:52
RST38h	ISDN? Eh....	19:53
nextime	luke-jr : i'm in europe :)	19:53
nextime	here isdn is very common	19:53
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trumee	so any recommendations for codec from real sip users?	19:53
MOUD	How can I use my 3G internet to my laptop via wireless?	19:54
luke-jr	nextime: ISDN is basically non-existent in the Americas	19:54
microlith	ISDN had its day	19:54
nextime	luke-jr : true, but america is only about 8% of the population of the world :)	19:54
microlith	long sinc epassed	19:54
nextime	america -> usa	19:55
trumee	DocScrutinizer: you maintain twinkle too?	19:55
luke-jr	nextime: and Europe is what? 5%?	19:55
DocScrutinizer51	trumee: a little bit	19:55
nextime	luke-jr : not so many less than america	19:55
luke-jr	nextime: America is more than USA	19:55
Tachikoma	mh, in germany you can not get anything but a isdn line for pots	19:55
RST38h	luke: It is USA and Colonies	19:55
Tachikoma	i mean i wanted analog but that was simply not available anymoe	19:56
trumee	DocScrutinizer: how can i get decent log from * for the devs	19:56
* RST38h ducks		19:56
luke-jr	Tachikoma: sure, but of all the countries I know anything about, Germany is the most screwed up	19:56
DocScrutinizer51	trumee: no idea	19:56
nextime	luke-jr : as google there are more people in europe than in us :)	19:56
DocScrutinizer51	jcrawford: you found DCIM?	19:56
luke-jr	nextime: my point was that China easily trivializes both	19:56
Tachikoma	well, that won't make isdn go away any time soon there	19:57
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nextime	luke-jr : right, and china has isdn too!	19:57
Tachikoma	rotfl	19:57
trumee	this sip issue is real frustrating for me.	19:57
RST38h	does it?	19:57
jcrawford	yes i found it copied it there and am trying to email it now but seems to keep failing to send grrrr	19:57
nextime	lol	19:57
trumee	makes the tablet unusable	19:57
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nextime	trumee : anyway, try to debug the call on the * side	19:57
luke-jr	nextime: no, China has MIW	19:57
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MOUD	anyone?	19:58
* luke-jr is someone.		19:58
trumee	nextime: is there any test sip number i can call?	19:58
* SpeedEvil is everyone.		19:58
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: liar	19:58
DocScrutinizer51	trumee: probably blame pulse audio for it	19:58
nextime	trumee: wait just a second	19:58
MOUD	okayyyyy.	19:58
MOUD	How can I use my 3G internet to my laptop via wireless?	19:59
nextime	i will put online a sip number with an Echo()	19:59
trumee	DocScrutinizer: so it is not sip stack issue, rather than pulse audio?	19:59
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luke-jr	MOUD: that's called tethering, and is usually against your provider's ToS	19:59
DocScrutinizer51	trumee: not sure	19:59
trumee	nextime: you use alaw codec?	19:59
MOUD	luke-jr: but is it possible with n900?	19:59
luke-jr	MOUD: yes.	19:59
jcrawford	DocScrutinizer, OviShare does not want to seem to upload the 500kb image either grr	19:59
DocScrutinizer51	trumee: just PA is known to be crap. I frequently blame it for all unclear issues	20:00
Tachikoma	luke-jr: in germany it's not against every providers Tos anymore, mine allows it by now if i read it right ...	20:00
MOUD	gonna give a try. Does it need any special configuration?	20:00
Tachikoma	but then again i also have a contract that was so early they did not yet think of putting that restirction in :)	20:01
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luke-jr	Tachikoma: yeah right. it's illegal to run an open AP in Germany	20:01
trumee	DocScrutinizer: the * debug log wont help if it is a PA problem?	20:01
luke-jr	MOUD: of course	20:01
DocScrutinizer51	nope	20:01
luke-jr	MOUD: might even need to recompile your kernel	20:01
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MOUD	luke-jr: :S ok, tks for the info :)	20:02
nextime	trumee : try to call 123456@skylive.astronomix.org	20:02
nextime	corecode seve6	20:02
trumee	nextime: thanks	20:02
nextime	ops	20:02
DocScrutinizer51	trumee: first: what kind of problem are you facing?	20:02
luke-jr	MOUD: you might need to use ad-hoc wifi mode, too	20:02
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luke-jr	not sure if N900 supports AP mode	20:02
Tachikoma	luke-jr: yeah - an open one. It's not illegal to run a encrypted one. In fact it's not even legal to run an encrypted one where the random number that was printed on the access point and is the preconfigured passphrase has not been changed after setting it up the first time ...	20:02
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jcrawford	finally got it on ovishare but now to actually remove it from being private lol	20:03
luke-jr	Tachikoma: yeah, exactly. Germany is insane.	20:03
trumee	DocScrutinizer: remote voice gets muffled after 2 minutes	20:03
microlith	luke-jr: wasn't it said that the wifi firmware explicitly disables that mode?	20:03
Tachikoma	luke-jr: nope - germ,any is freaking old	20:03
RST38h	ahhahaha: http://pics.livejournal.com/cd_riper/pic/000ebgzs/	20:03
luke-jr	Tachikoma: and senile/insane	20:03
Tachikoma	just look at the average age, its something like 42	20:03
DocScrutinizer51	trumee: that's strange	20:03
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flailingmonkey	for sharing over wifi, joikuspot?	20:04
MOUD	luke-jr: I'll try with default settings. If it doesn't work i'll try playing with it later	20:04
Stskeeps	RST38h: you know, if it was a omap3 and with n810 design..	20:04
Tachikoma	so the people in charge here have not the slightest clue about what they are doing when it comes to technology, also expleins the extremely rapid growth of the pirate party here	20:04
trumee	DocScrutinizer: Bug 6936	20:04
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6936 Caller voice gets minced after some time when taking call via SIP	20:04
nextime	flailingmonkey	20:04
nextime	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=450777#post450777	20:04
jcrawford	DocScrutinizer, what is your email i will share with you :)	20:04
jcrawford	whomever can tell me what this icon is haha	20:04
jcrawford	wait i will just upload to image service	20:04
DocScrutinizer51	jcrawford: share what?	20:04
RST38h	Stskeeps: Actually, N810 is kinda flimsy when compared to n900, and the keyboard is worse...	20:04
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Tachikoma	at kleast germany forbitd google to take pictures of public streets :)	20:05
frals	bah why have ppl thumbed down the statement that chromium was pulled	20:05
luke-jr	Tachikoma: I am anti-piracy of course	20:05
luke-jr	Tachikoma: yeah, more insanity there	20:05
Tachikoma	luke-jr: pirate party is that as well, most people do not understand that.	20:05
crashanddie	bollocks	20:05
jcrawford	DocScrutinizer, this screenshot :)	20:05
RST38h	What is wrong with taking pictures of public streets btw?	20:05
luke-jr	Tachikoma: then why call themselves piracy?	20:05
luke-jr	RST38h: nothing, just Germany being retarded	20:05
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Tachikoma	nobody calls themself piracy	20:06
DocScrutinizer51	jcrawford: I don't need that	20:06
crashanddie	pirate party are a bunch of idiots who hide behind "we're against piracy", when really they just want to download shit, without caring of copyright	20:06
Tachikoma	its pirates	20:06
Surfa	crashanddie, since when are they officially against piracy?	20:06
luke-jr	crashanddie: so?	20:06
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xkr47-DI	hi	20:06
Surfa	at least in finland i've never seen such statement	20:06
luke-jr	piracy and copyright are two completely unrelated political issues	20:06
luke-jr	piracy is raiding ships at high seas	20:07
xkr47-DI	Am I missing something.. how do I create an account for the wiki ?	20:07
RST38h	really?	20:07
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luke-jr	copyright is a monopoly over informaton	20:07
jcrawford	http://tinypic.com/r/25s390h/6	20:07
Tachikoma	crashanddie: that depends on the country, in germany many people joined pirate party as the governement was about to implement censorship technology for the internet and was about to store the last 5 years or so connection data of every internet user	20:07
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jcrawford	i need to know what the icon is 2nd from the right in the top row	20:07
xkr47-DI	I went to the wiki.maemo.org and clicked "log in / create account"	20:07
xkr47-DI	but on the page I see no possibility to create an account	20:07
Tachikoma	in sweden the piracy topic is much more viviid, german pirates are more aginats surveillance and censorship	20:07
xkr47-DI	and trying to log in just gives errors	20:07
Surfa	luke-jr, copyright has nothing to do with current understanding of information	20:07
xkr47-DI	can anybody help ?	20:07
trumee	nextime: cant call your number?	20:07
jcrawford	anyone know?	20:07
nextime	in italy google can shot public streets, but they have to cover things that can be bad for privacy like registration numbers of cars ( i don't know the right word in english) and so on	20:08
jcrawford	nextime, censoring	20:08
nextime	trumee: uhmm i don't see anything coming from outside	20:08
trumee	123456@skylive.astronomix.org ?	20:08
nextime	jcrawford : no, i mean the registration numbers of the cars	20:08
trumee	nextime: 123456@skylive.astronomix.org ?	20:08
nextime	trumee : yep	20:08
jcrawford	can anyone tell me what the 2nd icon from the right in the top row of the status area is? http://tinypic.com/r/25s390h/6	20:08
Tachikoma	luke-jr: i can only recommend this page to you: http://nothingforungood.com/	20:09
nextime	i'm in the asterisk cli with verbose set to 6	20:09
nextime	and i don't see any call coming	20:09
Tachikoma	it will veru strongly improve your view that germany is insane	20:09
jcrawford	nextime, in the use we call them license plates	20:09
nextime	( no firewalling on 5060 udp )	20:09
jcrawford	plate number :)	20:09
Tachikoma	and you'll have a good laugh :)	20:09
nextime	jcrawford : yep, plate number is ok :D	20:09
Tachikoma	basicvally its some american guy explainung germany :)	20:09
crashanddie	luke-jr & jcrawford & Tachikoma & nextime: Could we take it to an off-topic channel?	20:10
Tachikoma	crashanddie: already leaving	20:10
lcuk	dneary, \o thanks	20:10
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SpeedEvil	jcrawford: Don't recognise it.	20:10
dneary	lcuk, Thanks fer what?	20:10
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SpeedEvil	n900fly active?	20:10
jcrawford	SpeedEvil, yea nor do i but sometimes it is a green circle with that ssideways 8 icon	20:10
lcuk	bug 10573 following up and rectifying :D	20:11
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10573 Searching for wiki contributions by username yields no results	20:11
jcrawford	nope	20:11
jcrawford	lunch be back	20:11
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nextime	trumee : just tryed from my office to call the * server, it work	20:11
DocScrutinizer51	jcrawford: never seen	20:12
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MOUD	are the extras catalogs offline?	20:14
trumee	nextime: some problem with my * config	20:14
trumee	nextime: it is not accepting sip addresses ony telephone numbers	20:15
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nextime	trumee : can't you bypass your asterisk registration and directly call from the phone?	20:16
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johnsq	Hi	20:16
* nextime need to find the more rapid way to transfer a LOT of contact from the blackberry to the n900		20:17
trumee	nextime: how would i do that?	20:17
trumee	nextime: disable * register?	20:17
nextime	trumee : just calling sip:123456@skylive.astronomix.org without any registration would do	20:17
MOUD	Is JoikuSpot worth the money?	20:17
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DocScrutinizer	dneary: thanks for fixing 19573 :-)	20:18
dneary	DocScrutinizer: 10573? No problem :) Was painful	20:18
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: how's charging coming along?	20:18
trumee	nextime: should i disable sip account?	20:19
nextime	trumee : ok, the default voip client in maemo doesn't let you call by voip without an account	20:19
jacekowski	nextime: why you want voip?	20:19
nextime	at leas as i can see looking at the config	20:19
nextime	jacekowski : my voip is working, it is trumee that has issues	20:19
SpeedEvil	dneary: People can now see what I've been editing! Oh noes! :)	20:20
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: not on top of my todo list. To verify any concept I'd need the devel device which I'm waiting to arrive every day now	20:20
nextime	jacekowski : i use it so i can redirect my office number to my mobile :D	20:20
SpeedEvil	thanks	20:20
trumee	nextime: what codec do you use?	20:20
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jacekowski	nextime: just setup a call forwarding	20:20
nextime	trumee : g729...	20:21
nextime	jacekowski : why i have to pay for a call forward when i can do it gratis?	20:21
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: anyway SpeedEvil, ShadowJK and me have successfully charged, using a one-liner	20:21
trumee	nextime: and it works fine for long duration over wifi?	20:21
nextime	trumee : never tryed over wifi	20:21
trumee	nextime: ah!	20:21
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: a crude concept, but for anything more sophisticated ... see above about device to test	20:22
trumee	nextime: i have found it working ok over 3g but not on wifi	20:22
nextime	trumee : so, i will try	20:22
ptl	MOUD: you guess it is, because it's cheap. But it also uses too much CPU, I'd rather use something like mobilehotspot even though it requires a custom kernel (you can use the opportunity to go overclock, though)	20:22
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MOUD	i see	20:23
ptl	MOUD: the rationale being, if you use your mobile as a hotspot, you want it for the longest time possible, and mobilehotspot allows you that because it uses much less CPU than joikuspot	20:23
nextime	my wife is calling me for dinner, seeya guys.	20:23
DocScrutinizer	s/shadowjk/stskeeps/	20:23
DocScrutinizer	~ping	20:23
infobot	~pong	20:23
MOUD	ptl: I see, but does it work right?	20:24
ptl	MOUD: both do.	20:24
MOUD	nice	20:24
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MOUD	what about using n900 as a repeater?	20:24
ptl	?	20:24
MOUD	n900 as a Wifi Repeater. (To increase a wireless signal)	20:25
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ptl	No idea about that, but I don't think it will fit this purpose. mobile phone wifi power is small.	20:26
SpeedEvil	ptl: it's not actually	20:26
ptl	I stand corrected, then. :)	20:26
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SpeedEvil	But I'm not sure that the firmware supports acting as a client and a master at the same time	20:27
SpeedEvil	in principle, that might work with ad-hoc.	20:27
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flailingmonkey	its tricky business	20:34
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: well, it's more about hardware	20:35
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: as you can't do 2 channels at the same time	20:35
flailingmonkey	major usb-hostmode use case for myself: usb-ethernet stick to share wifi/3g with wired devices	20:35
SpeedEvil	That too, yes.	20:36
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jacekowski	and to make it just repeat all you need is access to raw mode	20:36
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: yep	20:36
jacekowski	recieve everything with interesting SSID and resend	20:36
DocScrutinizer	bbl	20:37
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jacekowski	n900 wifi can do raw mode?	20:37
ptl	what temperature do your n900s show? Mine is usually within 30 to 40 ⁰C	20:37
jacekowski	ptl: 32	20:37
jacekowski	43*	20:37
jacekowski	42(	20:37
jacekowski	omg	20:37
jacekowski	fail	20:37
LuciusMare	:D	20:37
ptl	currently 33	20:37
flailingmonkey	it needs to send on different channel perhaps? how would client handle seeing the same packets twice	20:37
LuciusMare	Where do i check? -_-	20:37
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th3hate	Is it right that N8 has a broadcom GPU?	20:38
ptl	LuciusMare: you need custom kernel (kernel-power), then you need to load the bq27x00_battery kernel module, then you do cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/temp	20:39
Surfa	th3hate, why do you think so	20:39
th3hate	rumors say so	20:39
th3hate	Just wanna make sure	20:39
LuciusMare	ptl: okay, thanks :)	20:39
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th3hate	or is it PowerVR SGX530?	20:40
ptl	LuciusMare: kernel-power it titan's kernel, a ready-for-overclocking kernel with loads of stuff, like ipv6 support, NAT/masquerading support (for mobilehotspot) and other goodies, it's worth the money you pay for it	20:40
flailingmonkey	th3hate, I see no reason to expect such a bizarre change	20:40
vldcnst	what money?	20:41
ptl	$0	20:41
ptl	it's worth it.	20:41
th3hate	Then i guess it's not broadcom like rumors say?	20:41
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microlith	it's something weird, an ARM11 chip with OpenGL ES 2.0 support	20:42
microlith	I wonder if it's something custom from TI	20:43
th3hate	The UI is gpu accelerated with Broadcom BCM2727 GPU	20:43
th3hate	i guess	20:43
flailingmonkey	nvm, I keep forgetting its ARM11 platform	20:44
dneary	SpeedEvil, Fixed user links in Recentchanges too	20:44
th3hate	ARM11 is based on ARMv6?	20:44
SpeedEvil	:)	20:44
microlith	broadcom's site is terrible :/	20:45
GAN900	Stskeeps, man up. :P	20:46
GAN900	Oops, stuck in scrollback.	20:47
GAN900	th3hate, ARM11 is the CPU type, armv6 is the instruction set.	20:47
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th3hate	I mean n8's CPU is the based on the same cpu used in n810	20:48
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th3hate	right?	20:48
th3hate	both are ARM-11	20:48
GAN900	th3hate, not exactly.	20:48
GAN900	ARM11	20:48
Surfa	th3hate, quite again.. where did you get the idea? :)	20:48
th3hate	It says the CPU is ARM11 in nokia's site	20:49
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th3hate	And it says the same about n810's cpu both are arm11	20:49
th3hate	But GPU being broadcom is just a rumor	20:50
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* timeless_mbp sighs		20:50
microlith	well, the "gpu" being broadcom is unlikely unless the whole SoC is broadcom	20:51
microlith	we'll know soon enough, in any case	20:52
th3hate	That's what i thought too, i think it's PowerVR SGX530	20:52
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flailingmonkey	much more liekly	20:55
flailingmonkey	a/liekly/likely/	20:55
flailingmonkey	ugh	20:56
flailingmonkey	IRC/forums must be pretty amusing for people who know internal details. or depressing	20:57
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DocScrutinizer	depressing	21:06
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* ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:]		21:07
DocScrutinizer	uhuh	21:07
satmd	?	21:07
jacekowski	stupid web2irc script	21:07
DocScrutinizer	I bet, otherwise where's THAT lame nick from	21:08
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DocScrutinizer	GAN900: no news yet. 'overnight' was a guess of you, right?	21:10
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tripzero	does anyone else have this weird hypnotic response to spinning the desktops on their phone?	21:15
tripzero	fun for my 3yr old and for me	21:15
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DocScrutinizer	nah, I won't say it...	21:18
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Stskeeps	flailingmonkey: my vote is on depressing if you have a open source mindset	21:19
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: has charging gained some points on meego importance rating?	21:20
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DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: just asking why you're asking :-)	21:21
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: curiousity and i wish we had a open bme (personally)	21:21
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: so I might re-arrange my ToDo	21:21
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DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: I wait for response from hah and err, what's his name?	21:22
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, yeah.	21:23
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: marquiz i guess	21:24
DocScrutinizer	yes	21:24
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Stskeeps	on a random sidenote, if a meego team is meeting in person and there's only nokians/subcontractors in it, - what's best way to maintain 'openness'? publish minutes afterwards and postpone actual decisions until next online meeting?	21:25
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: you noticed (yet quite empty) jrbme.garage ?	21:25
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Stskeeps	yeah, i noticed it	21:26
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DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: good question	21:26
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	okay, bought that n900	21:26
Stskeeps	because even in open teams there might be BoF's in person, on a random conference	21:26
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	thought the touchscreen would be better	21:26
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	did they ever get multitouch to work on it?	21:27
mikki-kun	ljsdofuynsdfufuh: hardware-side not possible	21:27
mikki-kun	but with some nasty software-hacks it emulates that...	21:27
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: probably yes. depends on nature of the decisions. If you easily can revert, then no need to postpone, just mention them in minutes and encourage public debate	21:28
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ljsdofuynsdfufuh	mikki-kun, which softare hacks are these?	21:29
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: after all it's always one person who says 'so now that's it, let's see if it pans out" - so you can decide based on prior discussion, or you decide based on own notion and discuss later	21:30
mikki-kun	to my knowledge none have been really distributed widely as these hacks are really basic and implementation can and surely is very difficult	21:30
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: :nod:	21:30
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DocScrutinizer	ljsdofuynsdfufuh: you can not implement true mt on this type of touchscreen, without at least minor hw mods	21:32
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mikki-kun	DocScrutinizer: minor hw hacks?! replacing the touchscreen and the controller is for me a major hack...	21:32
GAN900	Stskeeps, we should fly you to all of them. :P	21:33
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Stskeeps	meh, i hate travelling too much	21:33
Stskeeps	visiting two countries this month	21:34
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DocScrutinizer	mikki-kun: that's not how r-ts mt works, though	21:34
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	will the n900 work with maemo 6?	21:35
DocScrutinizer	mikki-kun: basically it'd need really minor modifications to the driver hw for a 4wire r-ts	21:35
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ljsdofuynsdfufuh	this n900 seems to have maemo 5: 10.2010.19-1.002	21:35
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	is this optimal?	21:35
mikki-kun	isn't that pr1.2?	21:35
DocScrutinizer	yep	21:35
mikki-kun	if so, then you are up to date..	21:35
dregin	Hey	21:35
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dregin	Does anyone know of a workaround to get the email widget working with nokia messaging?	21:36
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mikki-kun	DocScrutinizer: hm, i didn't know that you can hack a rt-st-ts to a multi-touch...	21:37
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mikki-kun	maybe i should take a look there...	21:38
DocScrutinizer	mikki-kun: well, dual touch	21:38
mikki-kun	isn't that enough?	21:38
DocScrutinizer	for me even single is enough	21:38
mikki-kun	if we could have triple-touch then we'd beat the iphone4 :D ^^	21:38
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DocScrutinizer	not sure about that. iPhone c-ts probably supports virtual "unlimited" number of conurrent touchpoints	21:39
GAN900	9 or 10	21:40
DocScrutinizer	yep	21:40
mikki-kun	Ö.ö	21:40
GAN900	1st gen may be less	21:40
mikki-kun	try putting 10 of you fingers on the 3.5" screen	21:40
GAN900	s/less/fewer	21:40
satmd	or even 11!	21:40
mikki-kun	it's pretty full after that	21:40
satmd	%)	21:40
GAN900	I can't eve put two without awkwardness.	21:40
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lbt	o/	21:41
mikki-kun	sometimes dual-touch would be cool, but single-touch is easier in usage :)	21:41
DocScrutinizer	lo	21:41
DocScrutinizer	err \o	21:41
crashanddie	GAN900: play tap tap	21:41
crashanddie	GAN900: you'll learn to use three fingers without any problem	21:42
DocScrutinizer	§and next week we show you how to unknot your fingers..."	21:42
mikki-kun	XD	21:42
crashanddie	and that sentence taken out of context can be so damning	21:42
GAN900	two-touch	21:42
mikki-kun	apple could bring "twister for fingers" out...	21:42
sx0n\|home	it's too easy to leave evidences on touch screen.	21:42
crashanddie	not apple, apple doesn't write apps	21:43
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crashanddie	or very little	21:43
mikki-kun	that would top 1 app in all stores	21:43
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DocScrutinizer	anyway twister for fingers was exactly what I had in mind	21:43
mikki-kun	DocScrutinizer: you ever played heavy rain?	21:43
DocScrutinizer	nope	21:43
mikki-kun	at one point you have to use 8 of your fingers to hold down specific buttons...	21:44
mikki-kun	that is really twister	21:44
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	couldn't the screen on the n900 be replaced or something?	21:44
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	there seem to be screws on the back	21:44
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	put on a capacitive one	21:44
DocScrutinizer	ljsdofuynsdfufuh: forget it	21:44
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	I mean, it doesn't seem that hard to do - just saying	21:45
mikki-kun	ljsdofuynsdfufuh: have fun writing the drivers ;)	21:46
sx0n\|home	i dont think that resistive and capacitive screens are electronically compatible	21:46
DocScrutinizer	have fun finding a mechanically matching part, first instance	21:46
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	well the whole screen part would have to be replaced, I guess	21:46
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	of course, nokia would probably have to manufacture it	21:46
greenfly	seems like a lot of work just to pinch to zoom	21:46
sx0n\|home	ljsdofuynsdfufuh: not bad idea.	21:47
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	well, I've never had a phone with it, but I heard there is a lot more one cna do with it	21:47
DocScrutinizer	insane idea	21:47
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	good ideas are insane	21:47
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	minus the atomic bomb	21:47
sx0n\|home	modularity is good m'kay?	21:47
DocScrutinizer	n900 isn't 'modular'	21:47
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greenfly	presumably n900+1 will have a capacitive screen	21:48
sx0n\|home	that why phones have (normally) changeable batteries	21:48
DocScrutinizer	trust me, I know what I'm talking about	21:48
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	good	21:48
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	share your knowledge	21:48
sx0n\|home	well i dont :)	21:48
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	lol	21:48
DocScrutinizer	greenfly: ack	21:48
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	anyone have problems connecting to certain APs with the n900?	21:48
DocScrutinizer	greenfly: and no hw kbd	21:49
DocScrutinizer	screwit	21:49
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	you guys talking about the n920?	21:49
greenfly	DocScrutinizer: at least from what I've read APIs are being written to support it	21:49
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	thought that was fake	21:49
greenfly	DocScrutinizer: hadn't heard about the hw kbd	21:49
greenfly	that's a pretty important feature for me	21:49
DocScrutinizer	grep your config files for RX-71	21:50
greenfly	interactive shell sessions are painful w/ pure touchscreen	21:50
GAN900	ljsdofuynsdfufuh, versatility wise resistive is better	21:50
DocScrutinizer	or maybe s/config/git tree/	21:50
sx0n\|home	n900 kbd is not very comfortable either, too small for my taste	21:51
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ljsdofuynsdfufuh	GAN900, why so one can use that stick thingy?	21:51
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	heh	21:51
sx0n\|home	four rows would be great	21:51
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greenfly	eh, I just tend to get used to whatever thumb keyboard	21:51
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	well, let's try to be optimistic about it since I literally just bought one	21:51
greenfly	none of them are ideal (since the ideal would be a full-sized keyboard)	21:51
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	everyone make ljsdofuynsdfufuh feel good about his purchase	21:52
sx0n\|home	greenfly: and no qwerty. it was only invented to slow down typing	21:52
greenfly	ljsdofuynsdfufuh: the n900 is great as long as you aren't trying to turn it into some other phone	21:52
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	Actually, I wonder if anyone has hooked up full sized keyboards using bluetooth	21:52
greenfly	sx0n\|home: oh here we go with that old yarn...	21:52
greenfly	ljsdofuynsdfufuh: some have, it's hit or miss, depends on the keyboard type and you have to do a bit of work to get it to work	21:53
sx0n\|home	greenfly: well yes :)	21:53
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	it was invented to slow down typing in one way, but actually it ends up not doing so much anymore	21:53
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	(researched that one for a while)	21:53
greenfly	the end result of all of it is that people who are properly trained to type are faster than people who aren't	21:53
DocScrutinizer	ljsdofuynsdfufuh: it's the best device I ever had, and I don't want it to be elementarily different	21:53
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	currently having problem connecting to wifi	21:54
sx0n\|home	n900 is really a good device.	21:54
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	thinks wep pass is wrong or something	21:54
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	first thing I did was install nmap	21:54
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	heh	21:54
sx0n\|home	even farmville works with oc kernel and pr1.2. it does not work well even on most desktops	21:55
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	oh what a plus	21:55
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	hahah	21:55
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	sorry	21:55
sx0n\|home	yeah, zynga ceo was second speaker in ios4 presentation.	21:55
sx0n\|home	and millions of users. incl me ;)	21:56
sx0n\|home	i just do little "research" about online games.	21:57
konfoo	people actually play farmville?	21:57
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ljsdofuynsdfufuh	yes depending upon your definition of 'people'	21:57
sx0n\|home	i would not call it playing..	21:57
konfoo	right, sorry, the great unwashed	21:57
sx0n\|home	im on level 62 btw :)	21:58
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ljsdofuynsdfufuh	how do you show a wep key you entered in previously?	21:59
sx0n\|home	you cant i suppose	21:59
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	ouch	21:59
sx0n\|home	security issue	21:59
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xDaReaperx	Hi	21:59
sx0n\|home	but it was just guess	21:59
xDaReaperx	for installing Wine should i donwload the .deb package ?	22:00
xDaReaperx	cause there are other packages available	22:00
xDaReaperx	this is the binary list : http://www.lamaresh.net/binary.php	22:00
xDaReaperx	i don't know which one to choose	22:00
sx0n\|home	wine? for what?	22:01
xDaReaperx	N900	22:01
sx0n\|home	wow	22:01
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DocScrutinizer	LOL	22:01
xDaReaperx	dont tell me its not yet out	22:01
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DocScrutinizer	you're aware we got no x86 cpu, are you?	22:01
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xDaReaperx	well how did some ppl run Wine on their N900	22:02
sx0n\|home	xDaReaperx: are you trying to use spotify?	22:02
xDaReaperx	yes	22:02
sx0n\|home	there is different client	22:02
xDaReaperx	hmm couldnt find one	22:02
DocScrutinizer	someone even made OSX run on N900, using bochs	22:03
DocScrutinizer	time to first boot message: ~3h	22:03
DocScrutinizer	windows also "works" using this way	22:04
sx0n\|home	xDaReaperx: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33390	22:04
DocScrutinizer	so why shouldn't wine work as well?	22:04
sx0n\|home	there might be better threads, but that came up first	22:04
xDaReaperx	hmm ok ty	22:04
xDaReaperx	ya i thought wine should be working alone	22:05
sx0n\|home	nope	22:05
DocScrutinizer	bochs hosting x86-linux, running wine, running a windows app	22:06
DocScrutinizer	sounds sane ;-D	22:06
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xDaReaperx	dont we have DoxBox as another PC emulator ?	22:07
xDaReaperx	DosBox *	22:07
style	Is there way to make n900 give internet connection to laptop via bluetooth?	22:07
FauxFaux	O_O at all the data disappearing when you go into mass storage mode.	22:07
xDaReaperx	Bluetooth DUN	22:07
style	(with obex (or something like that))	22:08
DocScrutinizer	yes, you can s/bochs/dosbox\|qemu/	22:08
xDaReaperx	hmm ok	22:08
style	xDaReaperx: ty	22:09
xDaReaperx	ur welcome	22:09
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flailingmonkey	it is just unusably slow	22:10
flailingmonkey	wep keys are stored in a file somewhere, not encrypted. off the top of my head I don't know where	22:11
FauxFaux	gconftool-2 -R /system/osso/connectivity/IAP	22:11
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flailingmonkey	FauxFaux, thanks, works for me.	22:14
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ljsdofuynsdfufuh	any of you have problems with wep on n900	22:14
flailingmonkey	ljsdofuynsdfufuh, use the command FauxFaux gave in the Terminal	22:14
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ljsdofuynsdfufuh	cool	22:15
flailingmonkey	none of the APs I use have WEP, its worse than nothing :-\	22:15
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	worse?	22:15
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	anyway, I'm trying to connect to a WEP AP	22:15
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	I have the key and everything, was just curious if maemo was storing it everytime i entered it	22:16
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	it wont connect though - and ive read some forum posts where people have had problems with wep and the n900	22:16
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	no fixes I've seen so far	22:16
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	not sure why it isn't working	22:16
flailingmonkey	WEP with pre-shared key is a broken scheme, gives a false sense of security, and small performance penalty	22:16
Fredrik1994	Can i be connected for myself and my computer through my phone at the same time	22:17
Fredrik1994	?	22:17
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	yeah, but a lot of people have it	22:17
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ljsdofuynsdfufuh	and I would like to be able to connect to any AP with my n900	22:17
vldcnst	Fredrik1994: can you rephrase that?	22:17
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ljsdofuynsdfufuh	talk on phone and use internet simultaneously?	22:17
flailingmonkey	you can share a GPRS data connection to a computer over bluetooth, and also use the internet on your phone	22:18
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Fredrik1994	Same connection? (and, you said GPRS but guess it would work on 3G/3.5G as well)?	22:18
Fredrik1994	and btw, when it comes to WEP keys, it's better than nothing i guess?	22:20
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Fredrik1994	things like consoles, NDS, doesn't support WPA	22:20
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	I no wep is crap, I just want to be able to connect to wep enabled APs	22:20
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	know** (wow?!)	22:22
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Tuukka	Just had a wow moment with my N900. Downloaded easy debian with max speeds of a bit over 1 Mb/s over 3G :DD	22:28
xDaReaperx	cool ^	22:28
xDaReaperx	anyone has 3.5 G ?	22:29
_llll_	in the uk, when signal allows	22:29
_llll_	never had that much bandwidth though	22:29
Tuukka	actually it was 3.5G	22:29
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tripzero	Stskeeps, open bme?	22:34
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MohammadAG51	not	22:35
Stskeeps	someone's playing with that, i guess	22:35
tripzero	what's a bme?	22:35
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ioan	I want to figure out what ports skype uses and I need help. How do I run netstat to show the application?	22:38
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flailingmonkey	netstat has a -p flag, but the version shipped on the N900 is missing it	22:42
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ioan	I googled it, "lsof -i" seems like workd	22:45
flailingmonkey	nice, I'll remember that oe :-)	22:46
flailingmonkey	s/oe/one/	22:46
infobot	flailingmonkey meant: nice, I'll remember that one :-)	22:46
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trumee	anybody knows what is the default ptime in N900 for G729?	22:53
trumee	http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Introduction_of_S60_VOIP_Codecs	22:53
trumee	S60 uses ptime of 20ms. Any idea what N900 uses?	22:53
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DocScrutinizer	trumee: use wireshark to trace the SIP datasteam, and you'll able to tell a lot of that	23:00
flailingmonkey	sounds like a question for a Nokian, as the SIP code is closed-source (would be nice if it was open)	23:00
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trumee	DocScrutinizer: i need wireshark on N900? or can i simply log *	23:01
DocScrutinizer	thought it's bee some lib though	23:01
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DocScrutinizer	trumee: wireshark is nice, but you also cam use tcpdump and analize later by loading the file to ws	23:02
trumee	DocScrutinizer: thanks	23:02
DocScrutinizer	yw	23:02
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DocScrutinizer	bbl	23:02
MohammadAG51	wireshark reveals the IP of the person you're talking to on skype	23:02
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zaheerm-lp	the sip code is sofia-sip which should be free software	23:07
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crashanddie	MohammadAG51: are you sure of that?	23:11
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crashanddie	MohammadAG51: I thought skype worked through p2p	23:11
MohammadAG51	crashanddie, pretty sure	23:11
MohammadAG51	idk how/why	23:12
tripzero	crashanddie, no, it uses some p2p tech to get around firewalls... but that's not really p2p	23:12
MohammadAG51	but I got 5 of my friends' IPs	23:12
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alterego	skype initiates a direct connection between clients, but it initiates the connection via a central service.	23:14
alterego	It's actually really clever how it tricks routers to do it.	23:15
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timeless_mbp	frals: ping	23:16
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timeless_mbp	frals: please fix your file picker to have a parent	23:16
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alterego	MohammadAG51: have you managed to get the IM status updater to work yet? :P	23:17
alterego	I wanna promote it gad damnit! :P	23:17
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DocScrutinizer51	crashanddie: skype is p2p with some central support relays used whenever needed	23:18
crashanddie	alterego: it is clever, but it doesn't work all the time	23:18
alterego	crashanddie: under what conditions? It's been working flawlessly for me ..	23:19
crashanddie	alterego: very complicated corporate network with vpn'ing and international routing, trying to dial out to people behind NAT'd home networks	23:19
flailingmonkey	does Andre Klapper lurk IRC?	23:20
timeless_mbp	yes	23:20
timeless_mbp	he's andre__	23:20
flailingmonkey	ahh	23:20
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flailingmonkey	~seen andre__	23:20
alterego	crashanddie: oh, you're talking about skype and not my app :P	23:21
crashanddie	alterego: :)	23:21
alterego	I thought you were having issues with my app :P	23:21
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infobot	andre__ is currently on #maemo (12h 11m 36s) #meego (12h 11m 36s), last said: 'FauxFaux, http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space ?'.	23:21
FauxFaux	PING	23:21
trumee	How can i use tcpdump to capture sip packets only?	23:21
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DocScrutinizer51	crashanddie: skype? it fails when both ends are symmetric NAT and no media relay server available	23:22
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DocScrutinizer51	crashanddie: same as SIP :-P	23:22
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crashanddie	trumee: use filters	23:23
trumee	crashanddie: tcpdump -n -w sip.pcap -s 1500 -i wlan0 ?	23:23
trumee	crashanddie: is that sufficient?	23:23
andre__	flailingmonkey, eh?	23:23
DocScrutinizer51	looks good	23:24
flailingmonkey	andre__, for feature bug jars, the wiki doesn't have links to the bugzilla?	23:24
flailingmonkey	ah, they are pipermail links	23:24
andre__	flailingmonkey, pipermail	23:25
DocScrutinizer51	trumee: filter later, using wireshark :-)	23:25
trumee	DocScrutinizer51: do i need to enable sip debug as well?	23:25
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trumee	DocScrutinizer51: TPSIP_DEBUG=all and TPORT_LOG=1 ?	23:25
DocScrutinizer51	never heard of, no idea	23:25
flailingmonkey	my bad. but without bug # either, harder to check them out	23:25
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trumee	DocScrutinizer51: i need to restart telepathy with the above logs, or is tcpdump sufficient?	23:26
andre__	flailingmonkey, yeah :-/	23:26
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andre__	not cool, true	23:26
DocScrutinizer51	tcpdump works autonomously	23:26
flailingmonkey	andre__, is the original mail html?	23:26
flailingmonkey	(html mail on mailing lists is usually a no no i guess)	23:27
zash	flailingmonkey: sending html email to mailing lists is punishable by death! ;)	23:27
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andre__	flailingmonkey, yes	23:29
andre__	well, I normally don't send HTML. but in this special case it makes sense	23:29
andre__	having the URL clutter in there is not cool for some managers	23:30
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flailingmonkey	I hope someone magics you that HTML-to-t.m.o forum syntax converter you need	23:31
DocScrutinizer51	trumee: apt-get install wireshark	23:31
DocScrutinizer51	much more fun :-D	23:31
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DocScrutinizer51	html mail on ML is often either discarded or converted to plain text	23:33
lcuk	mail clients send out flattext + original html dont they?	23:33
lcuk	at least polite ones	23:33
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flailingmonkey	killer app for N900: interactive "computer interface" animations from movies/tv shows	23:33
lcuk	flailingmonkey, eh? why not just have real apps using nicer interfaces	23:34
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flailingmonkey	because movie/tv interfaces aren't actually usable, but "pretty" which seems to be the killer app consumers want :-P	23:35
SpeedEvil	Most shows rarely had a consistent widget-set.	23:35
trumee	DocScrutinizer: hmm, tcpdump kicks the network out.	23:35
trumee	DocScrutinizer: it kills the sip connection	23:35
SpeedEvil	trumee: i noticed that the version of tcpdump I had installed was broken, and would do that	23:35
SpeedEvil	removing and apt-get tcpdumping again made it work	23:36
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trumee	SpeedEvil: apt-get remove tcpdump, apt-get install tcdump?	23:36
DocScrutinizer51	trumee: apt-get install wireshark	23:36
SpeedEvil	y	23:36
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DocScrutinizer51	much more fun :-D	23:37
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trumee	DocScrutinizer51: cant install wireshark, it is my missus N900. Wireshark will frighten her out :)	23:37
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DocScrutinizer51	tcpdump no better	23:37
trumee	DocScrutinizer51: tcpdump only needs ctrl+c :)	23:38
DocScrutinizer51	hmm wireshark as well	23:38
flailingmonkey	actually, it might be fun to make some app that did nothing, but simulated familiar interfaces, if it also had sound clips	23:39
DocScrutinizer51	but ok, I never checked ws on hildon. maybe it's even crap	23:40
trumee	DocScrutinizer51: do i need devel for wireshark?	23:41
DocScrutinizer51	for sure	23:41
flailingmonkey	ws got my laptop hacked :-( Taught me to capture and not view live, (AND not to use ws on a windows laptop at HOPE)	23:41
trumee	tcpdump kicks my sip connection. guess i need to install wireshark	23:42
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DocScrutinizer51	nah they both use libpcap	23:42
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DocScrutinizer51	just ws is much more bloated and cpu hog	23:43
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DocScrutinizer51	but zI don't see how tcpdump ever could kick your SIP	23:46
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trumee	DocScrutinizer51: i had to disable wifi and then re-enable, otherwise sip wouldnt connect	23:47
DocScrutinizer51	that should be unrelated to tcpdump	23:48
DocScrutinizer51	except if tcpdump ate all your cpu	23:49
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alterego	Hmmm, what to write next ..	23:49
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trumee	DocScrutinizer51: crap wireshark also kicks the sip connection	23:49
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trumee	DocScrutinizer51: time to un-install wireshark. Both tcpdump and wireshark failed me	23:50
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DocScrutinizer51	of course ssh into n900 over wlan and then have tcpdump log wlan traffic to that remote shell would be a nice kind of self feeding growth in traffic	23:51
DocScrutinizer51	aka deadlock	23:52
trumee	DocScrutinizer51: nope, i dont have ssh server installed on N900	23:52
trumee	DocScrutinizer51: i only have ssh client installed	23:52
trumee	DocScrutinizer51: i had an xterm open in N900	23:52
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DocScrutinizer51	remote file for storing the dump would serve same purpose ;-D	23:53
trumee	DocScrutinizer51: i am going to reboot N900 and try tcpdump again in a shell	23:54
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DrGrov	It is lucky that my nerves are being cooled by one of the greatest beers out there since my patience with the N900 is finishing slowly but certainly....	23:54
trumee	DocScrutinizer: libpcap was installed from dev-tools rather than extras-devel	23:55
trumee	DocScrutinizer: could that be the reason?	23:55
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joker_89	any pys60 programmer?	23:56
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MohammadAG51	Try #pys60?	23:56
joker_89	are sleeping	23:59
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