IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-05-29

jcrawford	zChris, haha dong go gangsta in here :)	00:00
Macer	it wipes the 2G system part	00:00
zChris	? :P	00:00
Dantonic	ok	00:00
Macer	make a bckup to get it up and running back to where you were	00:00
Dantonic	ok I'm updating without backup	00:00
Dantonic	ya I did that	00:00
DocScrutinizer51	Macer: WHAT?????	00:00
Dantonic	but I didn't back up the other 25 gigs of crap I have	00:00
SpeedEvil	Google has gone up quite a lot of the really little roads in the UK.	00:02
DocScrutinizer51	Macer: either you're mad, or Nokia wants to die	00:02
SpeedEvil	http://maps.google.com/<CENSORED>	00:02
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Macer	DocScrutinizer51: then nokia is mad	00:02
Macer	i did it early yesterday	00:02
Macer	it wipes and backup restores everything	00:02
Macer	had to re-download all apps and install	00:03
oioioioi	check bug 10399	00:03
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10399 Media player randomly stops playing music via BT headset	00:03
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Macer	it was a one step deal but still took a while	00:03
oioioioi	Can anybody read it and think?	00:03
DocScrutinizer51	Macer: if it whipes my homedir, then I whipe Nokia	00:03
SpeedEvil	oioioioi: I might have had that with the wired headset today	00:03
Macer	backup restores it	00:04
Macer	:-P	00:04
DocScrutinizer51	Macer: definitely NOT	00:04
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* MohammadAG_ votes for /home not being wiped		00:04
Macer	lol	00:04
Dantonic	hmm now that I think about it... I should have backed up some other things...	00:04
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* lcuk votes for /home being saved		00:05
lcuk	however most of the data there is useless after a reflash	00:05
lcuk	until the apps using the data come back	00:05
MohammadAG_	lcuk, for prime minister	00:05
lcuk	or if you transfer the backup to a new machine	00:05
SpeedEvil	IMO - really - it should store all of the downloaded apps onto /opt/archive or something	00:05
Dantonic	does the backup save the .desktop files?	00:05
SpeedEvil	So it can then just rapidly unpack them	00:06
lcuk	Dantonic, ? what do you mean	00:06
MohammadAG_	and no	00:06
Dantonic	the files that create an icon on your desktop... I had created a few to call some remote ssh commands and WOL my desktops	00:06
Dantonic	I guess I'll have to recreate them?	00:06
DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: call my scripts useless just once more :-P	00:06
MohammadAG_	SpeedEvil, the backup app? I just use apt-get now	00:06
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: yeah	00:07
Dantonic	although I don't remember exactly how I wrote them... should have saved a copy	00:07
lcuk	DocScrutinizer51, call my scripts useless just once more and i'll hardwrite an explicit DocScrutinizer51 patch to it :P	00:07
MohammadAG_	SpeedEvil, and I have the debs on my card, so restoring takes about 20-30 minutes with hildon-desktop off	00:07
Dantonic	updating software, please wait...	00:07
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Dantonic	I'm scared	00:07
lcuk	MohammadAG_, you backup?	00:07
lcuk	i just say stuff to #maemo and hope for scrollback	00:08
Dantonic	so 10.2010.19.1 is PR1.2 right?	00:08
lcuk	yeah	00:08
MohammadAG_	lcuk, yeah, my debs have been carried over since March	00:08
MohammadAG_	lcuk, I think I have at least 30 healthcheck versions in there	00:08
mc_teo	hey	00:09
mc_teo	im all ready to flash my n900	00:09
mc_teo	do i need to flash eMMC on it too?	00:09
lcuk	not usually no	00:09
MohammadAG_	not unless you want to	00:09
lcuk	but if you want to wipe out EVERYTHING that ever existed on your device, yes	00:09
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* Macer orders an ipad		00:09
* MohammadAG_ orders a kickban		00:10
* lcuk orders a bacon		00:10
* MohammadAG_ gives it to lcuk		00:10
lcuk	"a"	00:10
lcuk	mm	00:10
Dantonic	update over	00:10
Macer	:)	00:10
Macer	just kidding	00:10
Macer	jusr saw a commercial for it	00:10
* MohammadAG_ demands a refund!		00:10
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lcuk	Macer, i thought you liked new toys?	00:11
* DocScrutinizer51 orders a ~nuke nokia		00:11
DocScrutinizer51	if that scary story is true	00:11
MohammadAG_	DocScrutinizer51, how many nukes?	00:11
Macer	lcuk: no. learned that lesson with the touchbook	00:11
Macer	:-P	00:11
mc_teo	why would someone want to wipe out all things on their n900?	00:11
DocScrutinizer51	she will know	00:11
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: To remove the horse porn before sending it in for service.	00:11
MohammadAG_	xD	00:12
lcuk	mc_teo,why do you wash your pants	00:12
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Macer	hahaha	00:12
Macer	horse porn	00:12
lcuk	SpeedEvil, !!	00:12
lcuk	service techs probably have the strangest collection of random media	00:12
mc_teo	how did you kno...	00:12
MohammadAG_	lcuk, he can't help it, he typo'd zoutube once and was scarred for life	00:12
mc_teo	should i see any output on the n900 screen when its beening flashed?	00:13
lcuk	my life is enriched knowing there is such a website. thank you so much MohammadAG_ i shall send the hospital bill to your house	00:13
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* MohammadAG_ pays lcuk's bill		00:14
lcuk	mc_teo, i dunno o_O i'm always looking at its rear end when im flashing it	00:14
mc_teo	and when i try put the n900 in flash mode, it just stays a faded out Nokia screen, and i cant see any usb symbol	00:14
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lcuk	mc_teo, just take out battery	00:14
lcuk	put flash cable in	00:14
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: Your battery is possibly quite flat	00:14
lcuk	potentially	00:14
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lcuk	start flasher, and when it says "device not detected" put the battery in	00:15
lcuk	(all assuming a full battery	00:15
MohammadAG_	then make a wish :)	00:15
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DocScrutinizer51	sacrifice a virgin	00:15
mc_teo	im updating to pr1.2, so are you sure i dont need to flash eMMC too?	00:16
lcuk	did you manage to lose yours this year DocScrutinizer51	00:16
DocScrutinizer51	or visit nokia with a SADDAM	00:16
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: No, you don't.	00:16
mc_teo	ty	00:17
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DocScrutinizer51	it allegedly whipes the most important data on eMMC anyway, so don't bother	00:18
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MohammadAG_	DocScrutinizer51, blue_led replied, I think he doesn't care about fixing the driver...	00:18
mc_teo	lcuk: im using maemo_flasher-3.5, does this apply also to your instructions?	00:18
DocScrutinizer51	hmm	00:18
w00t_	anyone know how to beat scratchbox dns into submission?	00:18
w00t_	dns resolution is a no-go, despite my resolv.conf being OK	00:19
lcuk	mc_teo, yes	00:19
MohammadAG_	mc_teo, yes...	00:19
mc_teo	or rather, does your instructions apply to this situation	00:19
lcuk	i use those steps regularly	00:19
mc_teo	well wheni start flasher, it gives no outout	00:19
lcuk	i did a LOT of testing with people about reflashing the device to 1.2 :$	00:19
lcuk	how do you start it	00:19
lcuk	~flashing	00:20
infobot	flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	00:20
zChris	Whats this	00:20
zChris	MeeGO for N900 avaiable for download?	00:20
frals	quite handy how almost all the strings i needed for fmms is shipped with device \o/	00:20
lcuk	:D how bizarre	00:20
MohammadAG_	indeed	00:20
DocScrutinizer51	honestly now, dudes. has anybody experienced ~user being nuked on upgrade? I feel scared :-/	00:21
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mc_teo	lcuk: do i need to do that whole "u" thing to put it in flash mode?	00:21
MohammadAG_	DocScrutinizer51, i still have my logs	00:21
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: wfm	00:21
MohammadAG_	mc_teo, no	00:21
DocScrutinizer51	k	00:21
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: no	00:21
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: not if you pulled the battery	00:21
DocScrutinizer51	macer scared the shit out of me	00:22
MohammadAG_	DocScrutinizer51, ~ will be nuked (jk :))	00:22
w00t_	ngggggggggggggggggggggggggh.	00:23
w00t_	nsswitch.conf is fine too	00:23
* w00t_ wonders what he's missing		00:23
MohammadAG_	DocScrutinizer51, the whole bug fix only applies to reflashing	00:23
MohammadAG_	w00t_, a connection? :)	00:23
w00t_	MohammadAG_: if I didn't have that, I wouldn't be talking to you :-)	00:23
MohammadAG_	w00t_, I thought it was interactive lag	00:24
DocScrutinizer51	w00t_: syslog-ngggggggggggg.h ?	00:24
lcuk	on finnish n900 keymap, where is .	00:24
frals	left arrow	00:24
frals	or, where left arrow is on yours	00:24
lcuk	sure, thanks	00:25
MohammadAG_	next to the space bar?	00:25
frals	ie to the right of space	00:25
lcuk	MohammadAG_, i have a folder .mo	00:25
lcuk	on a device i flashed a few minutes	00:25
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lcuk	ago	00:25
lcuk	from a discussion we made about ~ being cleared a while ago	00:25
lcuk	its been flashed at least 10 times since that discussion	00:25
MohammadAG_	it doesn't get cleared from what I see	00:25
MohammadAG_	i reflashed to 1.2	00:26
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG_: damn I told ya to hide that stuff better	00:26
lcuk	~/.mo actually	00:26
lcuk	im just confirming :)	00:26
MohammadAG_	DocScrutinizer51, uhh?	00:26
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lcuk	to help DocScrutinizer51	00:26
MohammadAG_	lcuk, +1 bacon	00:26
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* MohammadAG_ tests lcuk's eyes		00:26
MohammadAG_	you didn't see that did you :P	00:26
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG_: it's fine to call the virus mo, but HIDE THE SHIT	00:26
lcuk	my eyes are fine	00:26
lcuk	they even autofocus now	00:27
* MohammadAG_ is confused :S		00:27
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thunderfest	what does this virus do?	00:27
MohammadAG_	lcuk, cool, do they have AF?	00:27
mc_teo	oh yeah, Im in Ireland, does this count as being in UK?	00:27
MohammadAG_	err, red light	00:27
FredrIQ	what virus?	00:27
lcuk	lasers	00:27
mc_teo	some silly people still think ireland is part of UK :(	00:27
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DocScrutinizer51	ask MohammadAG_ , he coded the thing	00:27
MohammadAG_	lcuk, and a Xenon flash?	00:28
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MohammadAG_	DocScrutinizer51, grr, I was gonna distribute it on the store!	00:28
lcuk	xenon? this thing has magnesium grenades	00:28
MohammadAG_	grenades are ftw	00:28
lcuk	they really help add backlight in a dim room	00:28
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: Some is.	00:29
lcuk	brings out the contrast	00:29
thunderfest	I put in my request for permission to upload to extras-devel a few hours ago...how long does it usually take to hear back?	00:29
MohammadAG_	lcuk, flashbangs work better for that	00:29
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG_: rename it to bacon, I always thought that's a better name	00:29
lcuk	thunderfest, 24-48 hours, but you hit at the start of a weekend	00:29
MohammadAG_	DocScrutinizer51, done	00:29
lcuk	so its potentially going to be sometime monday	00:29
lcuk	MohammadAG_, flashbangs are magnesium grenades afaik	00:29
MohammadAG_	DocScrutinizer51, shall I package it with i2cset?	00:30
MohammadAG_	lcuk, grrr	00:30
MohammadAG_	:p	00:30
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lcuk	bah	00:30
thunderfest	thats fine I probably wont really be ready to upload until late next week or the week after	00:30
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MohammadAG_	lcuk, is that a bah, or a baaaah (in which case I'll just moo back)	00:30
lcuk	it was a bah because wikipedia didnt say same thing	00:31
lcuk	but then relented within when it told of composition of flashbangs	00:31
lcuk	The filler consists of about 4.5 grams of a pyrotechnic metal-oxidant mix of magnesium or aluminium and an oxidizer such as ammonium perchlorate or potassium perchlorate.	00:31
MohammadAG_	hah!	00:31
* MohammadAG_ 1 : 0 lcuk		00:31
lcuk	ahem ^	00:31
Macer	catching up on fringe	00:31
lcuk	lcuk 2 : -1 MohammadAG_	00:32
red	is there any place to tweak the volume levela	00:32
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Macer	olivia is kind of that.. not hot hot	00:32
red	levels	00:32
MohammadAG_	lcuk, i was referring to the aluminum one	00:32
Macer	like hilary swank	00:32
* MohammadAG_ 2 : 2 lcuk		00:32
red	its like having to keep vol near minimum for earplugs	00:32
red	annoying :p	00:32
lcuk	near minimum is good	00:32
lcuk	saves your ears	00:32
MohammadAG_	just max it out, no warranty for your ears	00:32
lcuk	pardon?	00:33
Macer	haha	00:33
red	id like to be able to tone down the global max volume	00:33
MohammadAG_	red use alsamixer	00:33
red	the volume slider goes way too high :	00:33
MohammadAG_	alsamixer -c 0	00:33
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MohammadAG_	I wonder if MeeGo will have a multitouch alsamixer	00:33
lcuk	can never win, "music is too quiet" "ok we made it go to 11" "ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"	00:34
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lcuk	the nokia provided headphones are wickedly effective	00:34
MohammadAG_	indeed	00:34
lcuk	are you meant to force them right into ears	00:34
lcuk	or sit on outer edge	00:35
MohammadAG_	especially when you're surrounded by annoying people	00:35
MohammadAG_	lcuk, force, like a plug	00:35
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lcuk	cos i cant hear a thing from outside world with em in	00:35
lcuk	like proper ear plugs then ok	00:35
MohammadAG_	lcuk, noise cancellation	00:35
MohammadAG_	lcuk, you should try the BH-905 :)	00:35
lcuk	hence needing only a very tiny volume to drive them	00:35
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MohammadAG_	lcuk, actually remove the plugs and try them	00:35
MohammadAG_	the volume is pretty low without the bugs	00:36
MohammadAG_	buds*	00:36
lcuk	yeah sure i understand	00:36
lcuk	its only a tiny resonator	00:36
lcuk	but inside ear canal only and with no background thats plenty	00:36
MohammadAG_	yeah	00:36
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MohammadAG_	lcuk, the BH-905 uses a different method though	00:36
lcuk	direct neural implant?	00:37
MohammadAG_	8 microphones are used to 'hear' outside sounds	00:37
MohammadAG_	lol	00:37
Macer	portrait contacts would be nice	00:37
red	exactly what i was looking for, splendid! ty MohammadAG_	00:37
lcuk	:)	00:37
MohammadAG_	Macer, ctrl shift R	00:37
red	now i dare touch canola2 vol slider with earphones on :0	00:38
mc_teo	lcuk: would being on windows change your instructions?	00:38
MohammadAG_	hehe	00:38
Macer	whoa.. seriously?	00:38
MohammadAG_	Macer, it's a debug feature, don't expect miracles	00:38
svanheulen	portrait on screen keyboard is what i want :/ no use having portrait apps if you can't type	00:38
Macer	whoa	00:39
lcuk	mc_teo, because windows is "special"	00:39
MohammadAG_	PR2.1	00:39
Macer	awesome	00:39
arachnist	opera mobile has portrait mode	00:39
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red	id just want the contact popup gui to work in portrait	00:39
arachnist	and has an on-screen keyboard available	00:39
svanheulen	arachnist: because it uses it's own on screen keyboard	00:39
mc_teo	lcuk: no because it sucks	00:39
svanheulen	red: it does if you open it in the phone app	00:40
red	a lot of time i have to rddial and click on buttons sideways since im holding phone in portrait after a call	00:40
red	svanheulen: ye but not when one clicks from desktop	00:40
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red	which id prefer	00:40
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red	whoa lol	00:41
svanheulen	red: yeah but if you open the contact list from the phone app you also have the bonus of it only showing contacts with a phone number	00:41
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red	terminal goes in portrait @ifi close keyb slider :D	00:41
mc_teo	lcuk: and because your instructions dont seem to work on ti	00:41
mc_teo	it	00:41
red	svanheulen: i call a lot via skype	00:41
red	u cant even see skype contacts with phone app..	00:42
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MohammadAG_	you can	00:42
MohammadAG_	well.. i can	00:42
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svanheulen	i see skype contacts in the phone app	00:43
red	i only see skype contacts who have actual phone number visible	00:44
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red	not skype-only contacts	00:44
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red	via phone app ->@+3:3£5@£9"5*£5	00:44
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MohammadAG_	nope, got skype only contacts here	00:44
red	oops	00:44
red	select contact i ment to type :)	00:44
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red	mh, wonder why i dont	00:45
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Macer	whoa	00:45
SpeedEvil	Anyone not upgraded to 1.2, can they comment on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10261 as they do?	00:45
povbot`	Bug 10261: Terms and conditions of use displayed on PR1.2 upgrade are incorrect.	00:45
Macer	it rotates everything?	00:45
SpeedEvil	I recall you could view the terms and conditions on first boot after flash, there was a link before a dialog 'done'	00:45
Macer	what about the desktop? :)	00:45
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dotblank	Can I submit multiple applications for the programming contest?	00:45
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red	n900 is a horrible, horrible phone, but not halfbad as a mini tablet pc	00:46
microlith	what is it people expect out of a phone	00:46
microlith	particularly, what makes the N900 bad at it	00:46
Macer	guess not	00:46
SpeedEvil	No hardware call accept buttons.	00:46
SpeedEvil	accept/reject	00:46
dotblank	because im going to win it.. and I wan't to maximize my odds	00:46
Macer	microlith: portrait mode :-P	00:47
Macer	haha	00:47
dotblank	jus letting ya'll know	00:47
* Macer hides		00:47
n900-dk	Would it be hard to make pushing the camera button accepting a call?	00:47
Macer	why is that easier than touching the screen?	00:48
Macer	just curious	00:48
SpeedEvil	Becuase you can't see the screen	00:48
n900-dk	because I often hit the wrong button	00:48
SpeedEvil	when you pick it up from a bag.	00:48
SpeedEvil	Or a pocket	00:48
red	microlith: per user ringtones, swipe to answer, horrid start of call lags at times, timed profiles, multiple profiles and ways to set certain groups calls to alarm while others dont (aka important calls mode).	00:48
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microlith	ahh	00:49
red	microlith: to mention some basics that older models handled fine	00:49
microlith	well, all the older models in the N900's lineage lacked call support completely	00:49
microlith	everything else is symbian	00:49
Macer	SpeedEvil: fair enough	00:49
red	ye	00:49
red	still	00:49
red	newer fancier model -> lose base functionality :p	00:49
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red	was a shock to realize that all was really not there	00:50
Shapeshifter	Mh. So, it seems like automatic rotation doesn't work here. Neither in microb nor opera, which apparently are both supposed to do something when physically rotating the device. I installed attitude to see if stuff works and it does.	00:50
red	considering price range :)	00:50
Macer	Shapeshifter: rotation works in microb	00:50
arachnist	Shapeshifter: have you see settings?	00:50
Shapeshifter	yeah it's enabled	00:50
Macer	in 1.2 it has an option	00:51
Shapeshifter	Macer: I just said it doesn't for me xD	00:51
red	microb ctrl shidt something to activate	00:51
Macer	heh	00:51
red	isnt it	00:51
Macer	no	00:51
Macer	it is an option in settings	00:51
red	oh its an option now? :p	00:51
Shapeshifter	The option is enabled.	00:51
Macer	exit microb and start it again and try	00:51
Shapeshifter	I rebooted and everything	00:51
red	installed 1,2 few hours ago so	00:51
Macer	weird. maybe you have a lemon :)	00:51
Macer	worked fine here.. but the browsing is better in landscape for me.. i turned it off	00:52
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Macer	i want a rotating portrait desktop and media player more than anything :)	00:52
Shapeshifter	I don't really care either I'm just wondering why it's broken.	00:53
* microlith frowns as glxgears renders an empty window at 18FPS		00:53
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kpoman	hello	00:59
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kpoman	guys how do one scroll a window if it is bigger than the screen ?	00:59
kpoman	or drag up ?	00:59
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kpoman	I mean I have the accept button not visible :( how do I move the window so I can click on the button ? this is easy on gnome/kde by using ctrl + left click + drag	01:00
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SpeedEvil	on what software?	01:01
kpoman	n810 diablo	01:01
Dantonic	does PR 1.2 support ogg playback standard?	01:01
SpeedEvil	ah	01:01
SpeedEvil	kpoman: sorry - no idea.	01:01
kpoman	SpeedEvil: in general	01:01
kpoman	is ther ea shortcut to drag ?	01:01
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SpeedEvil	kpoman: In n900, only in browser mode.	01:01
Dantonic	or do I still need the ogg support package?	01:01
Shapeshifter	kpoman: that is a task of the window manager in charge and might vary from WM to WM.	01:01
kpoman	Shapeshifter: matchbox right ?	01:02
kpoman	Shapeshifter: for n810 i mean	01:02
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kpoman	?	01:04
koala_man	so how much free space do I need for 1.2?	01:04
SpeedEvil	koala_man: ~50M	01:05
koala_man	I have 51.6, but it's still asking me to connect via usb	01:05
SpeedEvil	See 'details'	01:05
SpeedEvil	have you dopnloaded stuff from extras-devel/testing?	01:06
koala_man	yes	01:06
koala_man	how do I determine what was installed from extras-devel so I can uninstall it?	01:06
SpeedEvil	It's likely that you've downloaded a conflicting package	01:07
SpeedEvil	generally - anything beginning with 'q' is a fair bet	01:07
koala_man	it doesn't say anything under "Problems", the tab is blank	01:07
SpeedEvil	hmm	01:07
SpeedEvil	I've never hit an issue - so I'm not sure where to go.	01:07
SpeedEvil	I'd try removing some apps	01:08
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SpeedEvil	Dantonic: http://www.vorbis.com/music/Epoq-Lepidoptera.ogg - will not play on standard media player	01:11
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SpeedEvil	While upgrading to 1.2 - if it works koala_man - can you check out where the terms and condiions are? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10261	01:12
povbot`	Bug 10261: Terms and conditions of use displayed on PR1.2 upgrade are incorrect.	01:12
Shapeshifter	so it seems like the whole of gtk is picking up my .Xdefaults. Funny side effect really	01:13
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SpeedEvil	And doing what?	01:14
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Shapeshifter	I used the one from my desktop and it contained Xft*dpi: 120. That makes all the fonts too big ;)	01:15
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Shapeshifter	(uhm so yeah, nothing to do with gtk really)	01:17
w00t_	any facebrick users, see: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=686905&postcount=423	01:17
mc_teo	grrr....	01:18
mc_teo	can someone help me	01:19
mc_teo	my n900 wont get past the PIN screen	01:19
mc_teo	because some symlinking didnt work	01:20
mc_teo	so now it cant be turned fully on	01:20
mc_teo	since i am using windows, i cant flash it either	01:20
mc_teo	what do?	01:20
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n900-dk	I would cry	01:21
CLabel	you can flash in windows?	01:21
CLabel	http://www.maemofanatics.com/how-to-flash-your-nokia-n900/	01:23
Dantonic	thanks SpeedEvil	01:23
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mc_teo	CLabel: i love you	01:27
mc_teo	its official	01:27
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mc_teo	lcuk told me not to bother doing putting it in to flashing mode, but now that i did, it worked first time	01:28
mc_teo	woo!, its rebooting!	01:28
SpeedEvil	Yes - lcuk spouts almost as much bad advice as me at times. :)	01:28
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SpeedEvil	Working out exactly which of the very many states it's in during flashing can be a bit tricky.	01:28
mc_teo	this is supposed to be a rather long reboot, since its opt-something it all	01:28
SpeedEvil	It takes a few mins	01:29
SpeedEvil	Also	01:29
SpeedEvil	Can you check out the above bug?	01:29
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mc_teo	which is?	01:29
SpeedEvil	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10261	01:29
povbot`	Bug 10261: Terms and conditions of use displayed on PR1.2 upgrade are incorrect.	01:29
SpeedEvil	on first boot - there should be a dialog asking you to accept terms and conditions of use.	01:29
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SpeedEvil	I think it's in a box with 'done' - and there's a link to read the T&Cs	01:30
SpeedEvil	Can you check this is where it is?	01:30
mc_teo	im on that screen now	01:30
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mc_teo	it displayed time + region details first	01:30
SpeedEvil	ah	01:31
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SpeedEvil	Do you have an account on bugzilla?	01:31
SpeedEvil	err - bugs.maemo.org	01:31
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mc_teo	just a message from OVI, saying you agree to Nokia's terms by continuing	01:31
SpeedEvil	is there a link there letting you read the terms?	01:32
SpeedEvil	or a button?	01:32
mc_teo	yes, ill try it	01:32
mc_teo	well a button	01:32
mc_teo	of similar style to the "done" button	01:32
SpeedEvil	ah - ok.	01:32
mc_teo	and from that bug report, it looks like he's arguing its purpose, rather than its functionality	01:34
SpeedEvil	I think he just diddn't see it.	01:34
Macer	hm	01:34
SpeedEvil	And so can't confirm.	01:34
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SpeedEvil	Do you want to comment - or should I comment on it on your behalf?	01:35
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mc_teo	comment on my behalf please	01:36
mc_teo	i am too lazy to make an account	01:36
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SpeedEvil	k	01:36
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mc_teo	and i dont know if its counted as a bug, but when i started it, the theme and widgets were all mixed up	01:36
SpeedEvil	k	01:37
SpeedEvil	That's as I understand normal	01:37
SpeedEvil	It corrects in a few seconds?	01:37
Dantonic	are we ever gonna get portrait mode for the N900? full portrait?	01:38
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* lcuk slaps SpeedEvil		01:39
Shapeshifter	Mh, so what exactly is the WM on maemo5? "hildon"? hildon-desktop?	01:39
lcuk	Shapeshifter, libmatchbox	01:40
Shapeshifter	lcuk: ah	01:40
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Shapeshifter	lcuk: thanks	01:41
lcuk	SpeedEvil, which bad advice to you spout	01:41
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SpeedEvil	I'm sure there must be some.	01:42
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mc_teo	SpeedEvil: i didnt wait to find out, i just changed the theme to my usual one	01:44
SpeedEvil	oh - I recalled some immedaite visial disturbance which went away fast	01:45
SpeedEvil	that sounds different.	01:45
lipe	where can i get wpa_suplicant for n900? i need to connect into cisco leap autentication wlan	01:45
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lipe	is wpa_suplicant best way?	01:46
SpeedEvil	Hehe. Nokia survey site.	01:46
SpeedEvil	language.	01:46
SpeedEvil	English.	01:46
SpeedEvil	English. (Android)	01:47
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cehteh	Is there a result from the n900 survey yet?	01:49
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Shapeshifter	does someone know what package contains diff?	01:50
Shapeshifter	it's not in coreutils-gnu apparently. or at least not in PATH	01:50
hardaker2	apt-cache search diff \| grep gnu	01:50
hardaker2	diffutils-gnu - File comparison utilities	01:50
Shapeshifter	hardaker2: thanks	01:51
hardaker2	I wish backup would remember apt-get iinstalled packages :-(	01:51
SpeedEvil	cehteh: I'm unsure they will be published.	01:52
SpeedEvil	cehteh: The first part recently concluded.	01:52
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unnamedhero	hi, how to change mac on (official) PR 1.2 ?	02:07
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unnamedhero	echo newname > etc/hostname doen't work..(((	02:08
unnamedhero	plz help	02:08
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SpeedEvil	Why MAC?	02:12
SpeedEvil	hostname is not MAC	02:12
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satmd	ifconfig DEV hw ether MAC	02:13
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satmd	may differ for non-ethernet devices	02:14
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mc_teo	it is done!	02:17
mc_teo	i am on my n900 as i speak	02:17
mc_teo	aloud as i type	02:17
mc_teo	pretending to be morgan freemans voice	02:17
pigeon	is the new ovi out yet?	02:19
arachnist	mc_teo: at least you're not gordon freeman	02:19
lopz	lcuk, I can not do what I want, but it is about, could you help me? :((	02:20
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SpeedEvil	:)	02:21
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cure`	the n900 is so smooth after a full flash :)	02:23
cure`	guess it was loaded	02:23
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pronto	i need to find my damn usb cable	02:24
pigeon	cure`: as opposed to ota?	02:24
pronto	ota means going though that application manager?	02:24
Dassu	:) Damn, Didn't know that Java and mobile hotspot (including custom kernel) could be installed through app manager. Freaking awsome	02:25
pigeon	yeah, Over The Air	02:25
pronto	yeah that dosent work for me >.<	02:25
cure`	ota?	02:25
pigeon	i upgraded to 1.2 ota, i wonder if i should reflash it instead.	02:25
* Dassu had problems with OTA 1.2. Didn't install		02:26
cure`	my phone was just loaded with all kinds of apps i've tried since i got it	02:26
cure`	i had 1.1 before today	02:26
pronto	goes to that back up thing and just stops -.-	02:26
derf	Oh no! gnuite.com is down.	02:27
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n900-dk	Dassu: What java and hotspot?	02:28
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Dassu	n900-dk: Java is included in the microemulator and the Hotspot is called mobilehotspot	02:30
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cure`	oh i reflashed it under fedora, no probs	02:35
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Randor	Hi, does anyone here speak portuguese? How do I say: "Peak Download Rate"	02:42
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pexi	http://translate.google.com/	02:43
Randor	Well... "Peak" does not translate very well.	02:44
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wazd	~seen andrewfblack	02:51
infobot	andrewfblack <~927e3333@gateway/web/freenode/x-cwsfwsnrxdwxikmc> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5h 29m 29s ago, saying: 'was their any change to Maemo supporting WPA2-Enterprise in Pr 1.2?'.	02:51
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Proteous	holy 1.2 battery life jump batman	02:56
pronto	>.<	02:57
Proteous	seem to be getting double the battery life now	02:57
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pronto	how'd you update?	02:58
haltdef	seems the same to me	02:59
asj_	Proteous: I would agroo	02:59
SpeedEvil	Well - ...	02:59
SpeedEvil	If you haven't reinstalled some things - then that may explain it	02:59
SpeedEvil	I've found several apps on testing to use ratehr a large amount of battery.	03:00
asj_	SpeedEvil: no	03:00
SpeedEvil	As a first cut - when idle and connected to ssh - I got >140 hours of battery life.	03:00
lcuk	lopz, doing arrays and collections and dictionaries in c is not trivial. especially so for dynamic ones. you have to learn about c string handling and memory allocation and stuff first	03:00
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asj_	SpeedEvil: there's been an improvement in how either IM or sip, or 3g or wifi useage that's made a dramatic increase in battery life	03:01
asj_	SpeedEvil: I had an idle n900 sitting on my desk at work running nothing at all and battery life is amazing, but no one uses an n900 like that	03:02
corecode	no radios = n900 runs for days	03:02
corecode	wifi on = runs 3 days or so	03:03
corecode	3g on = barely one day	03:03
corecode	for me, with 1.1.1	03:03
derf	My N900 dies in less than a day with nothing on.	03:03
corecode	dunno about 1.2 yet	03:03
asj_	corecode: after 3 or 4 days it was still > 80% so I would say with no radios would be week(s)	03:03
corecode	asj_: that was with wifi?	03:03
asj_	corecode: wifi is a radio so no	03:04
lopz	lcuk, http://codepad.org/z1ssylxk	03:04
asj_	derf: install BatteryGraph and see what's wrong	03:04
corecode	oh	03:04
corecode	yes, i think battery drain is ~ 5%/day in offline mode	03:05
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corecode	maybe 7	03:05
corecode	probably also changes when the battery drains more	03:05
asj_	corecode: sounds about right, sadly I think my informal test will get cut short next week	03:05
lopz	lcuk, look, I'm missing that part, that the pass & axiom [i] then return key, that is where the problem is, how I can do to get returns a char * but only the first character .. ? because here I print from & axiom [i] until '\ 0'	03:06
corecode	ENOPARSE	03:07
corecode	punctuation?	03:07
asj_	corecode: EUSEQT ;)	03:07
Proteous	I updated via the nokia software updater	03:08
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Proteous	I'm on edge with a ssh session always	03:08
Proteous	open	03:09
Ebzzry	Hi! Does a darcs binary exist for Maemo 5?	03:09
asj_	Proteous: edge uses much less power	03:09
SpeedEvil	asj: this was connected to wifi, running a shell script to log battery life every 5s, connectable to over ssh - but yes - quite idle	03:09
asj_	SpeedEvil: idle accroding to powertop?	03:10
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SpeedEvil	asj: fairly also.	03:10
SpeedEvil	asj: I was meaning idle as in not doing mich	03:10
asj_	SpeedEvil: heh, ok	03:10
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asj_	SpeedEvil: keep in mind though, wifi does use a good bit of power as well. That's really improved over the years, I remember 2 years ago an n78 type device on sip (so effectively idle) would kill it's own bat in a few hours	03:12
asj_	now we're up to days on wifi, that's pretty huge improvement	03:12
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Termana	good morning	03:16
SpeedEvil	asj: it's on the order of .1%/hour - with powersave at max	03:16
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asj_	that's pretty amaing really, 10mW xmit? wonder how much that changes things	03:16
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SpeedEvil	almost none	03:17
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SpeedEvil	if it's active - you've got the ~1W power of it being active.	03:17
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asj_	damn	03:17
SpeedEvil	~.5W	03:17
SpeedEvil	In idle mode - it very rarely transmits too	03:18
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asj_	well that's the power of 802.11 powersaving, you just wake up for beacons every so often	03:19
lcuk	lopz, this gets more and more convoluted :p your result string needs space allocating to it	03:19
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lcuk	and returning the thing you passed into it wont be returning just a single character as you indicated	03:20
lcuk	like i said earlier, c memory and bytes need learning	03:20
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lcuk	its not something that me poking with your function could do unless you understood why i did the things i did	03:21
SpeedEvil	asj: exaclty. I'm not sure exactly when you transmit - but it's not really often	03:21
lcuk	i could write a function which does what you want, but thats not the point here :P	03:21
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lopz	lcuk, in python it's very easy http://codepad.org/p3jnNQi5 hehe	03:22
asj_	SpeedEvil: it's something like this. Beacon has a bit mask of stations with waiting data, station then sends a power save request (or someting like that), the ap then pumps out the packets. xmit is very short, of course apps might then generate traffic. But if it's only doing keep alives every few mins then that's a huge win, especially since you can sleep through many beacons so rx section is powered down most the time.	03:24
SpeedEvil	asj: I wish I could find a nice explanation of al of this.	03:25
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SpeedEvil	asj: I tried reading the standard, and my head exploded.	03:25
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SpeedEvil	I was trying to find out where the max data per station, and max hold time was set	03:26
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asj_	SpeedEvil: heh, 6 years ago I worked for a company making ap software, it should be in the standard if there is a max hold time or data, not sure if there is. Can't remember the details.	03:28
lcuk	lopz, a moment	03:28
SpeedEvil	And yes 'it should be in the standard' - doesn't much help if first you have to digest it :) And it's quite self-referential and crosslinked.	03:28
asj_	SpeedEvil: helps you get to sleep... ;)	03:29
SpeedEvil	True.	03:29
SpeedEvil	For that I have the whirr of the n900 as it does make -j4 bzImage. :)	03:29
asj_	802.11e-200 seems to have some improved power savings, not sure if that's in active use atm	03:30
SpeedEvil	I plan on some easy entry-level hacking of the bq27x00 driver	03:30
SpeedEvil	Not here.	03:30
SpeedEvil	My AP was gotten a couple of years ago on ebay.	03:30
lcuk	lopz, http://codepad.org/0nG4tNA7	03:30
SpeedEvil	And diddn't come with a GPL offer.	03:31
asj_	there's a lot of 802.11 that's not in use sadly (mainly because it's hard to do)	03:31
* SpeedEvil stabs dynamode.		03:31
lcuk	lopz, its very easy in c as well, if you know what you are doing with the bytes of memory	03:31
SpeedEvil	Hard to do technically, or requires a lot of reading of the standard?	03:31
lcuk	if all you want is to output to a stream you can just push out either a string or a char	03:32
lcuk	nice and simple	03:32
lcuk	but storing them and reallocating space etc to get the whole string is more tricky	03:32
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* SpeedEvil really wants a nice embeddable wifi chip.		03:33
SpeedEvil	But meh.	03:33
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asj_	SpeedEvil: technically hard to do right when you incorperate it into a full system. Like having multiple hardware queues for qos. You can do it in the driver, but the OS has to do QOS right (which is hard) and deliver it to you in the right queues. Since the OS can barely do it, and most drivers don't do it so no one improves the OS, then there's no point to doing it in the driver. Chicken/egg issue.	03:34
SpeedEvil	Ah.	03:34
lopz	lcuk, ok, thanks :)	03:34
asj_	SpeedEvil: now add millions of APs that may or may not do cool feature and it gets worse	03:35
SpeedEvil	asj: and as it's not used by peripherals, and customers are not clamouring for it, ...	03:35
jatt	i updated to the last maemo version without issues why so much fuss about installations go wrong?	03:35
SpeedEvil	About the only 'cool thing' that would be a requirement for a new AP would be supporting powersaving well.	03:35
asj_	SpeedEvil: well they would clamor for it if their SIP calls could work perfectly (since 802.11 is probably the weekest link in SIP), oh but wait customers don't care about sip, and the AP doesn't do it anyways	03:35
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SpeedEvil	asj: and their IP backhaul doesn't do QOS anyway	03:37
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SpeedEvil	In some ways things would be oh-so-much better if you could rewind back several protocols and start over.	03:37
SpeedEvil	IP, SMTP, HTTP for example.	03:38
SpeedEvil	trying to jam in poorly supported reterofits rarely works well.	03:38
asj_	SpeedEvil: well those tend to be really "big" these days compared to 128kbit audio stream and worse case jitter is probably 100ms probably much much less. Were as 802.11g running without QOS frequently has 500ms+ jitter issues	03:38
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SpeedEvil	Yup.	03:39
asj_	SpeedEvil: sadly it would probably fail, there was better than IP available but it was too complicated, too control, or too much of a pain. IP was "simple" you just plug and set a few things and voila.	03:40
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SpeedEvil	SMTP for example - if there was a way to ask a host 'can mail from this user originate from you?'	03:41
asj_	SpeedEvil: "of course!"	03:41
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SpeedEvil	But that's getting somewhat off-topic :)	03:42
SpeedEvil	err	03:42
SpeedEvil	I meant - some way of asking the users MX server, not the spammer	03:42
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asj_	SpeedEvil: there's too much money in spam for it to be acutally fixed. Yahoo, etc made tons of money from spam	03:42
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asj_	well, not from the spammers, but from selling access to whitelists to companies that want to send "legitimate" emails	03:43
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asj_	where legit is "New products at 1800flowers.com" vs non ledit "B3y v1agara!"	03:44
SpeedEvil	Fixed now - yes.	03:44
SpeedEvil	I once got up to 8% of my ISPs inbound mail.	03:44
SpeedEvil	I was quite active on usenet.	03:44
SpeedEvil	Shortly after Canter and Siegal - I decided to post with each post being a unique message-ID.	03:45
asj_	SpeedEvil: heh	03:45
SpeedEvil	This worked quite well for some time, and I was able to work out which groups attracted most spam, metrics like mean time to spam, ...	03:45
SpeedEvil	It kind of fell over when I had 20000 of these addresses, and they were all being used to send 500 each mortgage spams.	03:46
swc\|666	postfix rules ftw	03:46
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asj_	heh, it's a pita, I used to run my own mailserver, greylisting was great but I finally gave up and use google apps for domains	03:46
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swc\|666	asj_, i dont even greylist and i get 0 spam	03:46
swc\|666	just a good postconf and amavis	03:47
asj_	swc\|666: OMG you're John C Devorak?	03:47
swc\|666	not even using spamassassin	03:47
SpeedEvil	swc\|666: Postfix rules don't really help when you're at the end of a 64kbit line trying to recieve 300 messages a second by smtp.	03:47
ZogG_N900	hey	03:47
ZogG_N900	so sup	03:47
ZogG_N900	watched wolfman	03:47
swc\|666	SpeedEvil, thats where rate limiting and/or an IPS helps	03:48
swc\|666	oh 64kbit	03:48
swc\|666	lol	03:48
SpeedEvil	swc\|666: Yes - however - this was ~2000	03:48
* swc\|666 just got 2 38/19 lines today		03:48
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ZogG_N900	i never got surprise party	03:50
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* ZogG_N900 watching breaking bad		03:50
ZogG_N900	s1e1	03:50
asj_	ZogG_N900: ugh I couldn't take too much of that show, just wait till the bathtub scene	03:51
asj_	(and I did like Deadwood, if that's saying anything)	03:51
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ZogG_N900	asj_ watched flashforward	03:52
ZogG_N900	great show	03:52
ZogG_N900	closed it. damn america )	03:52
pronto	flashforward ftw \o/	03:53
ZogG_N900	wow. she is jerking him off )	03:53
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ZogG_N900	pronto closed with not a single answer	03:54
pronto	lol	03:54
pronto	answers are overrated	03:54
ZogG_N900	haahahhaha	03:54
asj_	huh, any one found a bug on the n900 where is reverse balance on audio output?	03:54
pronto	give us more questions!	03:54
asj_	as in left becomes right, and it alternates?	03:54
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ZogG_N900	not a bug	03:55
ZogG_N900	fetuare	03:55
Kilroo	I'm trying to figure out whether I can tether my new n900 to my AT&T-connected n85 via bluetooth so that the n900 can make use of the AT&T connection. I keep finding things that seem to imply this is possible but that dismiss it without saying how (and usually go on to explain how to tether a laptop to the n900, which isn't the direction I need to go). Any help would be appreciated.	03:55
cehteh	i didnt even found where to set balance yet	03:55
ZogG_N900	)	03:56
asj_	cehteh: alsamixer -c0 all the settings you could ever want	03:56
cehteh	ah i was thinking about media player gui	03:56
asj_	cehteh: I wish	03:56
ZogG_N900	you can make gui for that	03:57
cehteh	i dont really need it	03:57
asj_	well it would be easier just to port kmix	03:57
cehteh	an eq for the internal speakers and maybe when one uses external speaker might be somewhat useful	03:58
ZogG_N900	no k* programs	03:58
ZogG_N900	no kdelibs	03:58
cehteh	but since i am most often use headphones i dont need a eq	03:58
asj_	ZogG_N900: kmix is so simple, just bring it back to qt only	03:58
ZogG_N900	it prob depence on kde	03:58
ZogG_N900	alsagui ftw	03:59
asj_	ZogG_N900: I couldn't imagin for what, I wonder if Qt Mobility multimedia has audio controls like balance/mix/etc with easy acccess	03:59
ZogG_N900	don't think so	04:00
ZogG_N900	anyway we don't get any of it )	04:00
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ZogG_N900	nokia made me negative thinker	04:00
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Kilroo	Yay for connection bouncing	04:01
ZogG_N900	kilroo why don't you sleep?	04:01
Kilroo	I beg your pardon?	04:01
ZogG_N900	i excuse u	04:02
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budfive	Kilroo: tethering like that is similar to laptop tethering. do you have all the network interfaces up?	04:03
SpeedEvil	Getting the network interfaces up can be problematic	04:03
Kilroo	budfive: That's a darn good question. If it can be problematic, as SpeedEvil says, then probably not, because I haven't done anything problematic yet.	04:04
SpeedEvil	However - it should be possible similar to pairing any other linux device using bluez with the att mobile	04:04
Kilroo	I've never paired anything before at all. Bluez was mentioned in at least one place I was reading; sounds like that might be a less abortive place to start than the tutorials on pairing in the other direction.	04:06
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SpeedEvil	I'd start out at a 'pairing my slackware laptop with a phone' tutorial - or something basic	04:06
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SpeedEvil	that goes through the commandline - rather than a shiny wizard.	04:07
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Kilroo	That sounds like a good idea. <3 commandline.	04:08
njsf_	re	04:09
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zChris	http://maemo-freak.com/index.php/component/poll/16-maemo-devices-will-never-be-anything-more-than-a-fad-among-geeky-enthusiasts	04:15
zChris	:)	04:15
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microlith	hmm	04:25
microlith	PR1.2++	04:26
microlith	I can use max powersave with my AP	04:26
Dassu	lol, I can run azsmrc on n900 :D	04:33
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maher	how do i tell which firmware i have?	04:34
Dassu	go to settings and "information about the product" (Or similar)	04:35
maher	3.2010.02-8.002 <-- i assume this is not the latest one	04:37
SpeedEvil	~flashing	04:39
infobot	i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	04:39
SpeedEvil	~changelog	04:40
infobot	somebody said changelog was dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile whatever.deb \| tar xOf - '*changelog.Debian.gz' \| gzip -d \| less	04:40
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SpeedEvil	~pr1.2	04:40
infobot	it has been said that pr1.2 is available since early Tuesday morning. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/ -- see ~flashing for how to update	04:40
SpeedEvil	26). Version 1.2 (V10.2010.19-1)	04:40
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maher	does updating the firmware erase all mtsettings?	04:41
maher	does updating the firmware erase all my settings?	04:41
microlith	no	04:42
DocScrutinizer	thinking about all the unused GPIO of N900 SoC and GAIA etc, and then figuring the ID pin of 1707 hardwired to a fixed level, I really really would love to be more involved in next NIT's HW development =(	04:42
maher	microlith: the wiki says: Flashing a new rootfs image on your device will reset the device back to factory defaults and remove all data except those on the (internal and uSD) memory card: preferences, bookmarks, installed applications,	04:43
microlith	correct, if you flash the rootfs the contents of the internal memory card are preserved	04:43
microlith	which is where all of your settings are	04:43
DocScrutinizer	which is a pretty fsckng ambiguous wording	04:45
maher	microlith: so eMMC is the rootfs and RX-51 is the firmware? I'm confused...	04:45
microlith	no	04:45
microlith	there's a 256MB device that stores the rootfs	04:45
microlith	RX-51 is the Nokia model number for the device	04:45
DocScrutinizer	So basically flashing a rootfs fiasco image will keep your /home/user and MyDocs data (first boot will wipe /home/opt though). Flashing a EMMC fiasco image will wipe your complete eMMC internal memory card, thus resetting /home and MyDocs to whatever is in the image	04:47
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DocScrutinizer	from http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	04:47
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, no.	04:47
DocScrutinizer	No? did my c&p fail?	04:48
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GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, I haven't heard from qgil.	04:48
maher	can i just flash with the RX and not the eMMC?	04:49
DocScrutinizer	yes	04:49
DocScrutinizer	but you can not flash the eMMC without flashing a new rootfs	04:49
maher	so i lose everything in / but not /home - what about /urs?	04:50
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: ahh, ok. Thanks for the info	04:50
maher	i mean /usr	04:50
DocScrutinizer	lost	04:50
maher	so i gave to manually restore the stupid hoops i jumped through to get some version of cron to work?	04:51
DocScrutinizer	yep	04:51
maher	propriety sw is shit	04:51
DocScrutinizer	though I'd recommed to forget cron and settle for alarmed app	04:51
maher	DocScrutinizer: yeah - if i could have ever got it run my scripts...	04:52
DocScrutinizer	will run your scripts just like cron, I'd say	04:52
DocScrutinizer	just better ;-D	04:52
maher	i can't even remmeber what i did	04:52
DocScrutinizer	if it doesn't then that's a bug which will be fixed by Shapeshifter in a minute :)	04:53
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maher	i installed fcron....	04:54
maher	DocScrutinizer: ok - how do I get alarmed to run a script on say a daily basis?	04:54
zChris	man fcron? :)	04:55
DocScrutinizer	open the gui, set the alarm time, a repeat of 'daily', and select 'execute command' or what it's called, and enter the full path to your script or execuable	04:55
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DocScrutinizer	or, on cli, do a "alarmed --help"	04:56
DocScrutinizer	cli interface even supports a crond alike syntax for recurring events	04:57
maher	DocScrutinizer: i don't see an execute script option - is this on the new firmware?	04:58
DocScrutinizer	plus full power of 'date' abstract time definitions, like "fri in 2 weeks"	04:58
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DocScrutinizer	uhh, I thought it should be there	04:58
DocScrutinizer	mompls	04:58
DocScrutinizer	left button: "command execution"	04:59
DocScrutinizer	botton text field: "enter command"	05:00
DocScrutinizer	what else do you need?	05:00
maher	DocScrutinizer: ?	05:00
DocScrutinizer	maher: ??	05:00
maher	DocScrutinizer: what is left button and which screen should i press it on?	05:01
DocScrutinizer	maher: start alarmed by clicking the icon	05:01
DocScrutinizer	maher: click "new event"	05:01
DocScrutinizer	maher: click the leftmost of the four buttons saying "alarm", a menu pops up, select "command execution"	05:02
maher	DocScrutinizer: do you mean "Clock"?	05:02
DocScrutinizer	ALARMED APP	05:02
maher	DocScrutinizer: where is it?	05:02
DocScrutinizer	extras-devel?	05:03
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maher	DocScrutinizer: hmmm... I have that in sources.d... - ok - I'm going to update the firmware so that will nuke everything anyway...	05:06
maher	Do-m-pie: oh - alarmed is different from alrmd	05:06
maher	DocScrutinizer: oh - alarmed is different from alarmd	05:07
DocScrutinizer	you bet it is	05:07
DocScrutinizer	and it's even powering up your device, in case a scheduled event arrives while the N900 is switched off	05:08
pronto	oh wow, the made the smilay icons super ugly in pr1.2 o_o	05:09
Kilroo	wow, bluetooth tethering in general is starting to look more complicated than I'd anticipated.	05:09
DocScrutinizer	maher: probably alarmed won't install flawlessly on PR1.1	05:09
ShadowJK	pronto, smiley icons are ugly per definition ;-)	05:10
maher	so RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin <--- this is just / not anything else?	05:10
DocScrutinizer	yep	05:10
pronto	ShadowJK: well yeah, but they've made them worse , still no way to disable them?	05:10
DocScrutinizer	(plus /home/opt)	05:10
ShadowJK	dunno :(	05:10
pronto	x.x	05:11
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maher	oh well - i have backups	05:11
DocScrutinizer	maher: well, actually it's kernel, plus /, plus a script that will optify some things and erase /home/opt/* during the process	05:13
DocScrutinizer	maher: that's why it's called "COMBINED" I guess	05:13
maher	DocScrutinizer: one day debian will run natively on these things...	05:13
DocScrutinizer	meego	05:13
DocScrutinizer	though I guess you could install a debian as well, even natively. You just will lose phone, wlan?, GFX-accel, and charging	05:15
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Proteous	heh	05:15
Proteous	who needs charging	05:15
Proteous	wlan? for losers	05:15
DocScrutinizer	yeah, especially since I could toss you a one-liner to make it charge ;-P	05:16
Proteous	I don't get it	05:17
Proteous	heh	05:17
DocScrutinizer	and chances are it will charge for 32minutes and up to 3.7V even without that oneliner	05:17
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maher	DocScrutinizer: no - it has to be debian, because no else cares about upgrade in place	05:17
Kilroo	Arch linux on a phone	05:18
DocScrutinizer	whatever you say, honey :-)	05:18
maher	ok - what do you do when your device is bricked?	05:18
* DocScrutinizer back to TV		05:18
DocScrutinizer	~flashing	05:19
infobot	flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	05:19
DocScrutinizer	is the method of choice for 'bricked' devices	05:19
maher	ok - it did something	05:21
maher	i lost both terminal and ssh - gordon bennet	05:23
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maher	doh	05:25
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maher	does the maemo dpkg support --set-selections?	05:34
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Cabletwitch	Yo yo.	06:12
Cabletwitch	Now that its out, is the new patch all its cracked up to be?	06:13
Cabletwitch	Buggered if I can tell much difference.	06:13
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GeneralAntilles	Browser zooming isn't broken as shit.	06:14
Proteous	although the cueing up of browsers scrolls with the dpad is sort of (very) annoying	06:15
Proteous	for us arrow key scrollers	06:15
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tgalal	why oh why TWO successful communication backup before upgrade to 1.2 result in TWO corrupted db files !!??	06:24
luke-jr	ROFL	06:25
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Cabletwitch	Anyone else not liking the 'new' menu?	06:27
arachnist	better than the old one	06:28
Cabletwitch	I kinda liked the 2 stage setup. I keep going into the settings out of habit now. Any way it can be reverted?	06:29
GeneralAntilles	Proteous, yeah, filled a bug.	06:32
luke-jr	LOL	06:33
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luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: http://tinyurl.com/agspa9	06:40
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GeneralAntilles	Cabletwitch, install Catorise.	06:45
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maher	where does modest keep its settings?	06:47
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jscinoz	Hi	06:51
jscinoz	I'm wondering if its possible to change the default command executed by osso-xterm?	06:51
GeneralAntilles	maher, gconf	06:52
maher	GeneralAntilles: what's wrong with a text file i can edit by hand...	06:52
maher	can i copy my old email settings over to the new firmware somehow?	06:53
pronto	neat, they got rid of search on the applicatoin manager...	06:53
GeneralAntilles	maher, it's centralized and standardized.	06:54
ShadowJK	You can start typing things and it searches the list	06:54
GeneralAntilles	pronto, just start typing. . . .	06:54
ShadowJK	not same thing of course :(	06:54
GeneralAntilles	maher, you don't have a bunch of arbitrarily formatted text files hanging around.	06:54
pronto	oh? before they acutaly had a seach button xD	06:54
GeneralAntilles	maher, it also doesn't require reloading the config file everytime a setting changes.	06:55
GeneralAntilles	pronto, lists have live search now.	06:55
maher	GeneralAntilles: why did the email settings disappear when i upgraded to 1.2? was that meant to happen or did something go wrong?	06:56
GeneralAntilles	maher, how did you upgrade?	06:56
pronto	anyone know a program that will share directly to your own ftp server, not to that pixelpipe?	06:57
maher	GeneralAntilles: flasher	06:57
GeneralAntilles	maher, why didn't you install OTA?	06:57
GeneralAntilles	maher, flasher is like formatting your hard drive and reinstalling.	06:57
GeneralAntilles	So if you didn't create and restore a backup, of course it's not going to retain your settings.	06:57
maher	GeneralAntilles: what is ota?	06:58
GeneralAntilles	maher, Over the Air	06:58
GeneralAntilles	SSU	06:58
GeneralAntilles	Installing the system update through the application manager.	06:58
maher	GeneralAntilles: i didn't realise you could do that - otherwise i would of course have done that	06:59
GeneralAntilles	maher, well, The More You Know.	06:59
maher	GeneralAntilles: for future reference how do i do that?	07:00
GeneralAntilles	maher, you know how it flashes update notifications at you from the statusbar?	07:00
maher	GeneralAntilles: yes	07:01
GeneralAntilles	maher, same as that, except it says Maemo Update instead of 3rd party.	07:01
maher	GeneralAntilles: i don't think it did that	07:01
GeneralAntilles	maher, what region are you in?	07:02
GeneralAntilles	Not all regions get the OTA update pushed at the same time.	07:02
maher	GeneralAntilles: i'm in the us	07:02
GeneralAntilles	maher, yeah, I think we got it yesterday.	07:02
GeneralAntilles	Not sure, though.	07:02
Cabletwitch	General: I tried catorise, but I prefer the old 2-tier system of menus, tbh.	07:02
GeneralAntilles	Cabletwitch, Catorise is two-tier. :P	07:03
GeneralAntilles	Cabletwitch, well, feel free to futz with the .desktop files.	07:03
GeneralAntilles	They're reasonably easy to organize.	07:03
Cabletwitch	Oh?	07:03
maher	GeneralAntilles: i fact last couple of times i tried to update it was stuck because of conflicts due to lack of availability of the firmware - i didn't realise if i just waited it would eventually find it...	07:03
Cabletwitch	Hmm, something else to mess with, whee :O)	07:03
jscinoz	Hello	07:03
GeneralAntilles	Cabletwitch, actually, I think it's configurable in PR1.2	07:03
GeneralAntilles	Cabletwitch, tap'n'hold.	07:03
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GeneralAntilles	maher, Nokia does staggered releases like it's 2004 for some reason.	07:04
Cabletwitch	I can move them about, sure. But I want the old 'More' icon back :O)	07:04
maher	well that justed wasted an hour of my life for no reason	07:05
jscinoz	the wireless on the n900 is somewhat screwy :(	07:06
GeneralAntilles	maher, any experience is worth having, no? ;)	07:06
GeneralAntilles	jscinoz, how so?	07:06
jscinoz	GeneralAntilles: it associates fine, and gets an IP address, but i cant actually do anything, cant ping the router or any other hosts on the network	07:06
jscinoz	and its not just my own wlan, but any network i've tried it on	07:06
GeneralAntilles	jscinoz, mmm, powersaving may be being weird.	07:07
jscinoz	GeneralAntilles: any suggestions?	07:07
GeneralAntilles	You can try reducing it a bit in settings.	07:07
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Cabletwitch	No problems with wifi so far here.	07:07
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jscinoz	ill try that	07:07
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jscinoz	i had to reflash it because the thing spontaneously decided it didnt want to boot... and i dont want to reinstall all the packages i had over hsdpa	07:08
jscinoz	GeneralAntilles: where are the wireless power saving settings located?	07:08
maher	i am now unbelievably bitter	07:08
GeneralAntilles	jscinoz, under the networking/connectivity/whatever settings in the control panel.	07:09
jscinoz	GeneralAntilles: only relevent thing there is internet connections, and it has no mention of powersaving	07:09
jscinoz	GeneralAntilles: perhaps a config file i can edit? or a gconf key i can set manually?	07:09
Cabletwitch	Bitter? Whyfor, maher?	07:10
ShadowJK	he used nsu without realizing it's a reformat	07:10
jscinoz	good thing the command line flasher doesnt touch the other stuff unless you ask it to	07:10
jscinoz	n900 likes to spontaneously brick (at least mine does) and thankfully i dont lose contacts or calendar when i reflash it	07:11
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maher	ShadowJK: i new it nuked / - i didn't realise if i just waited there was another way	07:11
Cabletwitch	Fingers crossed, not bricked thnis one yet. But I dont play with unstabke stuff, so thats a good reason why.	07:12
ShadowJK	Also there's a backup/restore app on every n900 ;-)	07:12
* ShadowJK has never had to flash his n900		07:12
* TheVirtualVortex flashed once to install PR1.2 because OTA didn't work		07:12
* ShadowJK hasnt tried to upgrade to 1.2 yet		07:13
* TheVirtualVortex wonders what ShadowJK is waiting for		07:13
TheVirtualVortex	;-)	07:13
ShadowJK	reports on what's broken	07:14
TheVirtualVortex	I didn't have any particular issues so far	07:14
ShadowJK	it'd suck to lose something I use	07:14
TheVirtualVortex	for example ?	07:14
ShadowJK	especially as downgrading could be hard	07:14
TheVirtualVortex	yes, that's true	07:14
ShadowJK	or lose performance from the optification	07:15
* ShadowJK just last week figured out how to make gpodder not be uberslow D:		07:15
Cabletwitch	Optification? You making up words now? XD	07:15
TheVirtualVortex	I see	07:15
jscinoz	Is there a way to re-enable support for Imap-idle in modest on the n900?	07:16
ShadowJK	the moving of stuff from the 256meg nand to the 32gig emmc	07:16
jscinoz	other than recompiling it	07:16
Dima202	This morning I woke up because the shortcut to media player started running a music stream	07:16
Dima202	I noticed there was a missed call too but why did it start playign radio i have no idea	07:16
Dima202	maybe the ghost in my room learned how to use touch screen?	07:17
ShadowJK	the media player widget is known to unpause after calls..	07:17
TheVirtualVortex	lol. interesting	07:17
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Proteous	my connection drops after a about 10 seconds of inactivity when tethering using 3g but stays up fine when using GSM	07:19
Proteous	this is using wvdial on linux	07:19
ShadowJK	mine doesn't drop, but there's a large delay before data starts moving after a period of inactivity	07:21
ShadowJK	so I keep a ping running	07:21
Proteous	mine actualy stops working	07:21
Proteous	if I keep ping or something running it stays up	07:21
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Proteous	wonder if I can change some of the timeouts in the ppp config files	07:21
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maher	is there some way i can increase the smtp timeout in modest?	07:23
jscinoz	GeneralAntilles: turning powersaving off does not help	07:24
jscinoz	GeneralAntilles: I still get an IP, but i cant actually connect to any hosts on my local network	07:24
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ear_wax	has anyone else had issues with sudo in pr1.2?	07:27
jscinoz	whee i have absolutely no wireless connectivity	07:28
jscinoz	so i have to fuck around with usbnet if i want to do an update and not get charged over $9000 by my carrier for using hsdpa too much.	07:28
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ear_wax	fun fun. u	07:29
ear_wax	you have no radios at all?? bt/wifi/etc	07:30
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ear_wax	my sudoers file is blank, idk if thats correct in meamo	07:31
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jscinoz	what is the default dhcp client in pr1.2, i thought it was dhcpcd as it was before, but thats apparently not there anymore	07:33
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Cabletwitch	Ooh, thats nifty...	07:35
pronto	?	07:35
* Cabletwitch figures out the volume rocker switches channels in xchat		07:36
pronto	o=	07:36
pronto	really?	07:36
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Cabletwitch	The things you find out by accident, eh?	07:36
pronto	thats new	07:36
pronto	you on pr1.2?	07:36
Cabletwitch	Yah.	07:36
pronto	that didnt use to happen	07:36
Cabletwitch	But it did it before that, I think.	07:36
pronto	really?	07:36
pronto	oh well, either way \o/	07:37
Cabletwitch	I'm pretty sure.	07:37
pronto	that makes things better \o/	07:37
Cabletwitch	I only found out by accident, when I hit the rocker.	07:37
jscinoz	Hi.	07:37
Proteous	just wait till you are in xchat and the porn site you have open in the browser starts playing loud sounds right when your GF walks by	07:37
jscinoz	What Is The DHCP Client On The N900.	07:37
Proteous	and all you can do is fastly switch windows	07:37
jscinoz	its probably you know, like what? 10 characters to answer? Wouldn't be that difficult. considering the collossal fuckup PR1.2 is there is little information.	07:38
pronto	if you're watching porn on a phone. ... :s	07:38
Cabletwitch	Buddy, porn makes you squint enough as is. On the N900, you'd go blind for sure XD	07:38
ear0wax	oh crap it does	07:38
Proteous	jscinoz, maybe we dont' know	07:38
Proteous	go look	07:38
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jscinoz	nevermind i found it	07:38
Proteous	...	07:38
jscinoz	udhcpc if anyone else if interested	07:38
jscinoz	see kids sharing information is not that hard.	07:38
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Proteous	cya, don't let the door hit you	07:39
Cabletwitch	Someone is having their period...	07:39
ear0wax	lol ass	07:39
pronto	theres jsut one last thing i want, a way to share images directly via scp/ftp with out going though pixelpipe x.x	07:39
Proteous	open terminal client > send picture via scp using "scp name@server:path/to/picture" > profit	07:40
pronto	easier to just do it via the gui on a phone	07:40
ear0wax	anyone know how i can get my sudo working for user? root (and sudo gainroot) work fine	07:40
Proteous	not sure	07:41
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pronto	because with the gui, i can add a name to the photo, so my script will rename it on my server	07:41
ear0wax	I think its broken because I went pr1.1.1>leaked1.2>offical 1.2 all without a mmc flash	07:42
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RST38h	<yawn>	07:52
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Termana	morning RST38h	07:56
RST38h	mourning.	07:56
undrwater	mourning?	07:59
Proteous	mouring	07:59
Proteous	ahoy!	07:59
undrwater	mooring?	07:59
Proteous	tiver me shimbers	07:59
undrwater	savoy mare latey!	08:00
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pronto	i wonder if it'll save battery by using 3 desktops rather then four	08:07
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ear0wax	I noticed the twitter widget completely kills battery	08:55
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Proteous	it's weird, the tethered 3g connection doesn't die. I am still connected to the "modem" but it just doesn't let me out to the interwebs.	09:16
Proteous	although if i load a webpage on the phone the tethered 3g connection starts working again once the page is finished loading	09:16
pupnik	well now. pr1.2 installed via apt-get upgrade and it reboots too. nice	09:16
Proteous	my hacked solution is to start a ssh connection with a serveraliveinterval of 5 seconds	09:17
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pupnik	Proteous: ping works also	09:25
Proteous	sure, but who wants to be pinged every 5 seconds	09:27
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pupnik	doesnt bother me	09:29
pigeon	is the new ovi store supposed to be out already?	09:30
MacDrunk	hey	09:30
luke-jr	Proteous: uh, ping is going to be less than your serveraliveinterval	09:30
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MacDrunk	i thow that maemo and ibm were merge in a new os system	09:31
arachnist	ibm?	09:31
luke-jr	you mean Nokia and Intel	09:31
Proteous	luke-jr: well, my ssh is usefull	09:31
MacDrunk	yea yea	09:31
MacDrunk	sorry	09:31
luke-jr	and that's in #MeeGo	09:31
MacDrunk	so	09:31
Proteous	for doing sshy things	09:31
Proteous	:P	09:31
luke-jr	and half this room hates MeeGo	09:31
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luke-jr	and the other half loves it	09:31
MacDrunk	why	09:31
luke-jr	I'm not sure the haters have a consensus on reason why	09:32
MacDrunk	meego sucks or what???	09:32
arachnist	meego uses rpm	09:32
gst-kaps	any idea how can we test a maemo app without N900 ?	09:32
Termana	arachnist, bingo - number one reason that people hate it for some reason	09:32
Termana	but to hell with it	09:32
Termana	Haters gonna hate	09:32
arachnist	i actually hate dpkg/deb more than rpm	09:33
arachnist	(mainly due to the fact, that rpm spec files are easier to write)	09:33
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CLabel	tar would have been best. ;)	09:40
CLabel	no added complexity	09:41
gst-kaps	how to test maemo without N900	09:42
gst-kaps	?	09:42
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Proteous	http://www.scratchbox.org/	09:45
CLabel	http://maemo.org/news/announcements/maemo_fremantle_and_diablo_sdk_virtual_image_final_version_released/	09:46
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Bilaw	Hallo all!	10:07
pupnik	huhu	10:07
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Bilaw	’have installed Easy Debian on N900: works fine, only there are three submenus to Synaptic, and… I don’t know the default root password, can anyone…?	10:08
MohammadAG	Bilaw, open the menu, then click Debian chroot	10:10
MohammadAG	then change the password using passwd	10:10
Bilaw	cheers, MohammadAG — I realise I can’t do it right now (have updated the firmware, and of course all programs erased), but I’ll do it soon	10:12
MohammadAG	Bilaw, the image should still be there, unless you flashed the eMMC	10:13
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pupnik	which part of pr1.2 is supposed to fix duplicate MyDocs folders bug? I still have dupes	10:16
pupnik	ahh that is the fault of catorise nm	10:17
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Bilaw	MohammadAG: so all I need to do is to launch the image, no need to type some command specific in the terminal??	10:17
MohammadAG	Bilaw, there's a shortcut for everything	10:18
MohammadAG	just install easy debian and easy chroot	10:18
MohammadAG	and you're done, no need to redownload	10:18
Bilaw	Ok, so were agreed.	10:18
Bilaw	cheers, mate!	10:18
MohammadAG	yw :)	10:19
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Bilaw	another question: If I want to install an alternative OS on my tablet, which d’you think is best for me, who have no knowlegde in computing?	10:24
Bilaw	— there is a page on maemo,	10:24
Bilaw	but it doesn’t state the level of completion of the works…	10:25
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ear0wax	i would just stick with easy deb	10:25
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Termana	Don't try that at home folks!	10:25
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Termana	My monitor plug was half way out, I tried pushing it in, and got some nice blue sparks	10:26
pupnik	funny question Bilaw - i would suggest "none"	10:26
ear0wax	i say that because of the driver issue	10:26
Bilaw	Humpfle, ear0wax & pupnik…	10:27
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mc_teo	does any fremantle browser have socks support?	10:27
Bilaw	(humpfle meaning that I feel bad hearing that)	10:27
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pupnik	Bilaw: other oses are for hacking and development. Maemo is stable	10:30
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mc_teo	does any fremantle browser have socks support?	10:34
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Termana	mc_teo, does any fremantle browser have feet? NO - so no use for socks	10:40
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Termana	mc_teo, :P in all seriousness try this - http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=550991&postcount=12	10:41
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Chiku	does microb support mozilla weave ?	10:47
Chiku	or you need fennex?	10:47
MohammadAG	fennec	10:48
pupnik	"The 1mhz 6809 can do 4000 ADD cycles in one frame (1/60 second) of Robotron."	10:50
pupnik	that was game programming :)	10:50
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rcg	pupnik: your talking of the old robotron from german democratic republic?	10:51
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pupnik	no williams Robotron 2084	10:51
rcg	heh ic	10:52
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pupnik	possibly runnable on some robotron system. did any have bit-addrressable graphics?	10:52
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rcg	well am no expert there .. i was just wondering if you meant the same .. they produced quite robust technology .. meaning robust in the mechanical sense ;)	10:53
rcg	like printers made the ground shake when operated robust	10:54
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pupnik	# Adam made up a "NOP NOP" joke. "Who's there?" "NOBODY".	10:57
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mc_teo	does any fremantle browser have socks support?	11:07
mc_teo	...	11:07
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* MohammadAG pokes frals		11:16
MohammadAG	you got MMS working, when's 3G video calling coming? :)	11:16
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SwedeMike	I've tried to make skype video calls and my local camera picture goes live, but other end doesn't see that I have a webcam, and I can't receive their webcam, anyone successfully got that working?	11:27
ear0wax	i video call with gtalk on edge. EDGE	11:27
ear0wax	no one can recive skype video atm	11:27
SwedeMike	ear0wax: hm, so I should try gtalk as well... interesting.	11:28
* frals slaps MohammadAG around a bit with a large trout		11:29
SwedeMike	hm, but google talk client for linux seems to be lacking.	11:30
frals	MohammadAG: ill let someone else tackle that one, i can't have all the fun... ;)	11:30
ear0wax	use gmails built in gtalk	11:30
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misc--	hi all, I'm trying to install the mobilehotspot according to instructions at http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/ but the link to hotspot-kernel-flasher is dead	11:31
misc--	also, if I do apt-get install mobilehotspot (dry run) then it exists and will download required packages - Can I just do it that way or should I follow instructions on the mobilehotspot garage page? (which I need hotspot-kernel-flasher)	11:32
pupnik	misc--: i just installed it and it worked	11:33
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misc--	pupnik: which method did you use? Just install mobilehotspot via apt-get ?	11:34
pupnik	yes	11:35
misc--	cool will give it a shot. Thanks	11:36
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misc--	did you install hotspot-kernel-modules and hotspot-kernel by any chance?	11:39
pupnik	didnt touch kernel	11:39
misc--	ah ok	11:39
pupnik	am running titan's atm	11:39
pupnik	maybe it includes all the fun you need	11:40
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misc--	yeah maybe...I'm just running stock one	11:40
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mc_teo	socks5 proxy support anyone?	11:48
Stskeeps	use the internet settins	11:49
Stskeeps	there's proxy stuff in there	11:49
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LuciusMare	Hi, the skype client on fremantle does not support conference calls?	11:51
mc_teo	and ive been using the pecain msn protocol plugin, but now they contacts dont appear in new im?	11:53
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mc_teo	and maemo seriously needs a porn button	11:55
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n900-dk	porn?	12:01
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MohammadAG	<LuciusMare> Hi, the skype client on fremantle does not support conference calls? it does	12:07
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LuciusMare	MohammadAG: oh? When I tried to add another call, the previous one got held...	12:10
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MohammadAG	tap the title menu and merge calls	12:10
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LuciusMare	There is no such thing as "merge calls", only "end held call"	12:13
mc_teo	n900-dk: well more a hide porn button	12:13
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MohammadAG	LuciusMare, there is one here	12:15
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LuciusMare	:(	12:16
MohammadAG	LuciusMare, make a call, make another call, then merge them	12:16
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LuciusMare	There is no "merge" button	12:16
MohammadAG	mind you if it's a voip call you can't merge a landline call with it	12:16
MohammadAG	uhh	12:16
mc_teo	and why the hell does app manager have a search anymore?	12:16
LuciusMare	Do I need to make a screenshot?	12:17
frals	mc_teo: start typing, its live filter	12:17
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mc_teo	i dont want to use pidgin :(	12:24
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TomaszD	zaheerm, ping	12:47
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Stskeeps	lo BaTmAn	13:03
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Trizt	mc_teo: it has a search, just start typing	13:04
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mc_teo	i know?	13:05
Trizt	I don't know if you know	13:05
mc_teo	i know!	13:05
mc_teo	i know if i know, and i definately know that i know!	13:06
Trizt	good :)	13:06
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mc_teo	n900 doesnt have an Alt key, how would i switch tabs in irssi?	13:07
mc_teo	s/windows/tabs/	13:08
mc_teo	n900 doesnt have an Alt key, how would i switch tabs in irssi?	13:09
mc_teo	s/tabs/windows/	13:09
infobot	mc_teo meant: n900 doesnt have an Alt key, how would i switch windows in irssi?	13:09
jacekowski	/window next	13:09
SpeedEvil	It does too have an alt key	13:09
pupnik	ctrl n ctrl p	13:09
jacekowski	or ctrl+n	13:09
mc_teo	and why is nokia suite associated with .jars	13:10
SpeedEvil	In xchat, I have shift-numbers (shift-blue-toprow-letters) bound to switch cannels	13:10
mc_teo	thats pretty retarded	13:10
mc_teo	SpeedEvil: not you, btw	13:10
mc_teo	nokia	13:10
SpeedEvil	Regrettably, much of the nokia sw is.	13:11
jacekowski	mc_teo: because it can install jars on some phones	13:11
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Trewas	mc_teo: esc+number also changes tabs in irssi	13:15
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pupnik	one more column of keys, or another row. bring back the "Esc" key!	13:18
pupnik	Whoever is anti-esc at nokia, yer wrong! :)	13:19
* pupnik stamps foot like 4 year old		13:19
SpeedEvil	I want shift-blue to be configurable	13:19
SpeedEvil	As with shift-z and blue-a	13:20
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SpeedEvil	So you can setup blue-a to be alt	13:20
SpeedEvil	or tab	13:20
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Shapeshifter	SpeedEvil: blue-a?	13:42
RST38h	Ho ho ho, "I am so angry/sad/disappointed" party is in the full swing at tmo!	13:42
Shapeshifter	SpeedEvil: you can bind alt to blue-a.	13:43
SpeedEvil	you can?	13:43
Shapeshifter	SpeedEvil: well yes. Edit /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 and your keyboard layout, put in something like key <AC01>{ \[a,A,Alt_L,Alt_L] };	13:45
Shapeshifter	I am guessing it should work. I mean, why shouldn't it.	13:45
Shapeshifter	it works with other keys, so why not with Alt_L	13:45
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SpeedEvil	neat!	13:46
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SpeedEvil	actually - you may get chording issues - I don't recall the key layout well	13:46
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Shapeshifter	SpeedEvil: meh, well it doesn't seem to work just yet. but I'm certain it's a matter of configuration	13:51
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TheGerman	good morning	13:53
TheGerman	after upgrade, my conversation history is 'broken', so new calls or messages wouldn't be stored... any ideas to fix it?	13:54
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Shapeshifter	I don't undestand what an eight level layout is, anyway ._.	13:56
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ali1234	hello. just stopping by to complain that the nokia update yet again wants me to wipe and reflash. what's the point of having a poackage manager if you're not going to use it?	13:57
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chadi	Go to your led pattern editor. set the color of missed call notofication to purple, click test, it appears in nice purple. now apply it, and miss call the phone, the notification appears as pink. Any idea what's wrong here?	13:58
TheGerman	chadi reboot?	13:58
chadi	even if I apply it manually, ie color rb, same result	13:58
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chadi	TheGerman I indeed did reboot	13:59
TheGerman	renamed the fgenerated file?	13:59
chadi	if you want, assume I don't have led pattern editor. I edit the file manually, changing the color to rb. Now I run led pattern editor, I test, it apears as purple, but when i miss call myself, it appears pinkish	14:00
Shapeshifter	I'm also what business /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44 has on the n900.	14:00
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TheGerman	hmh no idea	14:00
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SpeedEvil	Shapeshifter: There may be 8 'rows' on the keyboard - split into columns	14:01
chadi	TheAppleMan: do you have LED pattern editor? can you try it yourself?	14:01
TheGerman	but whats with my database problem? ^^	14:01
chadi	TheGerman* sorry	14:01
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Shapeshifter	SpeedEvil: but with a 4 level layout you have nothing+button, shift+button, blue+button, blue+shift+button. that way you get 4 ways. But with 8 levels? How'd you ever reach them?	14:02
TheGerman	i cant try it because my calling database is broken	14:02
Shapeshifter	you'd need an additional modkey,	14:02
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Shapeshifter	like: nothing+button, shift+button, blue+button, green+button, shift+blue+button, green+blue+button, shift+green+button	14:03
Shapeshifter	which is only 7	14:03
Shapeshifter	I don't understand how they get to 8	14:04
SpeedEvil	Shapeshifter: I mean 8 electrical	14:04
Shapeshifter	SpeedEvil: huh?	14:04
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, is it possible for the device to record in 720p?	14:05
Shapeshifter	the russian and norsk layout use these 8-level things. but they don't have electrically different n900s	14:05
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SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: Unsure	14:05
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, with the size of the lens	14:05
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: The lens can easily resolve 720p	14:05
Shapeshifter	ah, you can of course switch modes.	14:05
Shapeshifter	that gives you 2*4	14:05
SpeedEvil	I'm unsure if the video recorder will do it	14:05
TheGerman	no ideas?	14:06
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, so it's a software limitation?	14:06
SpeedEvil	oh - right Shapeshifter. I was being confused.	14:06
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: I'm unsure if the hardware has the capacity to take 720p video.	14:06
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: At full rate that is	14:06
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Nitial	samsung omnia hd has the very same cortex a8 and it records 720p video at 24fps so I guess it is just a software issue	14:16
Shapeshifter	There are several problems to this: 1) maximum cpu encoding speed, 2) transfer rate to emmc for caching unencoded data and or saving encoded data.	14:18
Shapeshifter	caching is probably impossible because it's just too slow	14:18
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* Arkenoi has strange feeling that pr1.2 is much less "stable" than 1.1.1. I see too many minor glitches.		14:20
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chadi	Arkenoi: 1.2.1	14:22
SpeedEvil	Shapeshifter: it's not the CPU which does the encoding	14:23
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SpeedEvil	cortex a8 is not a CPU	14:23
SpeedEvil	It's a CPU core.	14:23
SpeedEvil	The peripherals can vary.	14:24
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SpeedEvil	Including - for example - video encoder units and scalers.	14:24
SpeedEvil	Or rather - it's not a SoC - it's a CPU core	14:25
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Shapeshifter	ah	14:30
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pupnik	GBA remakes, ROMs and source: http://sites.google.com/site/gbaremakes/home/downloads	14:38
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pupnik	could use a vsync-driven game loop demo	14:41
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pupnik	1) give pupnik vsync signal 2) pupnik swaps framebuffer 3) lcd controller updates screen	14:44
pupnik	how hard is that :(	14:44
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MohammadAG	has anyone had problems booting up from a damn ubuntu disc?	14:49
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Stskeeps	it's mr butcher!	14:54
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frals	im an expert at uploading my package ~3minutes after the autobuilder starts importing	15:13
SpeedEvil	You should be by now.	15:14
SpeedEvil	:)	15:14
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chem\|st	can anybody confirm bug 10304 ?	15:17
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10304 Contacts not being recognised in Phone or SMS Conversations	15:17
chem\|st	or has an idea how to fix this	15:17
pupnik	works here. open contacts, send sms	15:18
frals	i think revdkathy got that bug as well, but not seen her on irc lately	15:18
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: Maybe they use grub and not isolinux with your mobo not being able to boot from cd-grub	15:18
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, it can boot from both	15:19
MohammadAG	and they use ISOlinux	15:19
MohammadAG	It seems to stop @ run level 5	15:20
tybollt	chem\|st: that sounds like what I had - it was due to one nnmber being in multiple contacts	15:21
tybollt	chem\|st: I merged the two contacts - presto no more problems	15:22
crashanddie	anyone who gets me jeff bertolucci's email address gets a cookie.	15:22
tybollt	presto? prästost? :S	15:22
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Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: maybe this is a good moment to try another distro? :>	15:28
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, my experience with Debian hasn't been that great, it couldn't detect any of my drives	15:29
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: depending on what kind of user you are: www.archlinux.org	15:30
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, hell no!	15:30
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mc_teo	wow, pr1.2 sucks my battery	15:32
GeneralAntilles	Mine improved by a noticeable amount.	15:33
MohammadAG	Same	15:33
* n900-dk dont understand why I have to confirm installation of every update, after I pressed "update all"..		15:33
MohammadAG	(as GAN)	15:33
MohammadAG	n900-dk, cause if you don't some smartass might sue	15:33
MohammadAG	:)	15:33
cure`	my phone is so responsive now having done a full reflash	15:33
cure`	had tons of garbage on it tho	15:33
GeneralAntilles	"MeeGo phone will be capacitive, more stylish and more beautiful with simpler UI that average users will find as equally compelling as tech leaders."	15:34
GeneralAntilles	Nokia can go die in a fire.	15:34
tybollt	GeneralAntilles++	15:34
tybollt	GeneralAntilles: where you at reading this?	15:35
GeneralAntilles	http://mynokiablog.com/2010/05/29/video-meego-qa-with-alberto-torres-nokia-evp-meego-computers-at-openmobile/	15:35
GeneralAntilles	Nokia marketing is a hateful operation.	15:35
GeneralAntilles	Business moreso.	15:35
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chem\|st	tybollt: I got not a single contact with number dupplets, well maybe gran'pa but thats about it	15:37
chem\|st	tybollt: I got that for some of the call-history and I dont have cell douplets	15:38
chem\|st	some entries show up with the name but if I tap on them they show like a unknown number	15:39
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chem\|st	GeneralAntilles: I think this is my last nxxx then! well maybe I buy a new N900 in 3 years...	15:41
chem\|st	pupnik: its not about that I am not able to call or text, its just that after a reflash it looks like something of the pattern engine messed up	15:42
chem\|st	I need a way to trigger it by hand or something	15:43
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ZogG	sup	15:44
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pupnik	aah newer sgx drivers in harmattan to fix memory corruption and perhaps give vsync https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9320#c6	15:49
povbot`	Bug 9320: opengl-es2 rendering bugs	15:49
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Shapeshifter	GeneralAntilles: heh.	15:50
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vanadismobile	hai thar	15:58
vanadismobile	my accu isn't loading	15:59
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vanadismobile	wat to do? reboot doesn't work	15:59
Stskeeps	your what?	16:00
Stskeeps	:P	16:00
vanadismobile	battery	16:00
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chem\|st	vanadismobile: USB or wall charger	16:02
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vanadismobile	i tried the wall charger and the old nokia charger with adapter	16:02
chem\|st	have you tried to charge it after removing the battery with the wall charger (not boot)	16:03
vanadismobile	no	16:03
vanadismobile	brb testing this	16:03
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chem\|st	remove the bat put it back in and dont power up	16:04
wazd	joppu: ping :)	16:05
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wazd	hello people btw	16:05
Stskeeps	lo wazd	16:05
GAN900	chem\|st, hoping they'll still do a loaner program	16:05
Corsac	yurgh, tinymail embeds a camel-lite library which provides the same symbols as libcamel from evolution-data-server	16:06
GAN900	I can't ever see myself paying for a capacitive device.	16:06
ZogG	wazd hola	16:06
ZogG	holla*	16:06
GAN900	"N900+1 -- More closed, less useful"	16:06
n900-dk	\o/	16:07
* Stskeeps just hopes it can run meego 1.1 and have it's own keys vault		16:07
ZogG	GAN900 what is N900+1	16:07
wazd	Stskeeps: I can make a community meego theme btw if you're interested :P	16:07
Stskeeps	wazd: hmm, i might be for the harmattan on n900 project, but i'll poke you later..	16:07
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* wazd 's totally confused now :)		16:08
ZogG	wazd, there is no UX anyway =)	16:08
ZogG	wazd, or you want to make for maemo5 ?	16:08
wazd	ZogG: yet :)	16:08
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ZogG	wazd, maybe it wouldn't be out, maybe WW3 will strike =)	16:09
wazd	ZogG: no, for Community Meego release	16:09
ZogG	wazd it's far from there anyway	16:09
wazd	Stskeeps: so harmattan is not meego 1.0 in the end? :)	16:09
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chem\|st	GAN900: same here, capa sucks	16:09
ZogG	wazd, there is no handset UX till 1.1 as i understand	16:09
Stskeeps	actually, that's not entirely true	16:10
Stskeeps	they say 1.1 trunk, not 1.1	16:10
chem\|st	ZogG: just install xfce	16:10
ZogG	Stskeeps when trunk is out?	16:10
ZogG	chem\|st wouldn't have phone functions anyway =)	16:10
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Stskeeps	ZogG: i don't know what the plans are.	16:10
vanadismobile	re	16:11
chem\|st	ZogG: sure not but what you need phone functions for?	16:11
Stskeeps	knowing things well, before summer, and everyone goes on holiday	16:11
Stskeeps	:P	16:11
vanadismobile	doesn't work properly	16:11
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chem\|st	vanadismobile: means doesn't charge?	16:11
vanadismobile	got this yellow blinking for about two sec	16:11
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vanadismobile	but then it stopped	16:11
ZogG	Stskeeps, pics.livejournal.com/athirn_eleidan/pic/00005bqh/s320x240 - something like that	16:12
chem\|st	does it start again with light pressure on the cable?	16:12
ZogG	chem\|st, i want to communicate with people at least on phone =(((	16:12
vanadismobile	tried that, but doesn't work	16:12
chem\|st	vanadismobile: then its not a broken plug though	16:12
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n900-dk	Is it possible to set the background just to a colour?	16:13
ZogG	Stskeeps, what holidays, it's school holidays =)	16:13
chem\|st	ZogG: well you got sound and internet make yourself at home!	16:13
vanadismobile	i'm trying to connect it to pc right now	16:13
ZogG	chem\|st, i want real life and want to take phone numbers from chicks =(	16:13
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chem\|st	ZogG: you wont ever get phone numbers from chicks	16:14
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chem\|st	you are a geek, geeks dont have a RL	16:14
ZogG	chem\|st that's the problem, i don't have life and i'm not geek =( makes me loser	16:15
ZogG	chem\|st actually i just don't take numbers - cause not gonna call - i give my number =)	16:15
n900-dk	ZogG: Cheer up - you always have your N900 ;)	16:15
* chem\|st holds his hand in "L" shape at his forehead		16:15
ZogG	n900-dk, it's buggy, there is no meaning in life	16:16
vanadismobile	connecting by usb doesn't work	16:16
ZogG	chem\|st, how dare you to laugh at me	16:16
n900-dk	ZogG: Sooo sad	16:16
vanadismobile	will reflashing do something?	16:16
* chem\|st starts pointing fingers!		16:16
* ZogG cries		16:16
chem\|st	vanadismobile: not if it cannot connect...	16:16
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Xenon\|XZ	vandis does it charge?	16:17
* ZogG throws wazd at chem\|st		16:17
n900-dk	ZogG: Remember, beer can fix any thing :)	16:17
ZogG	n900-dk, yeah, that's why i don't have money as well =)	16:17
wazd	ZogG: why me? :( :)	16:17
chem\|st	~rocket ZogG	16:17
ZogG	haha	16:17
ZogG	fail	16:17
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ZogG	~punch chem\|st	16:18
* infobot lets fly with a wild haymaker which catches chem\|st right on the nose		16:18
mikki-kun	n900-dk: since when does beer fix everything?	16:18
vanadismobile	Xenon\|XZ, no	16:18
chem\|st	~blow ZogG	16:18
* infobot blows ZogG		16:18
ZogG	mikki-kun, you are right, absent does	16:18
mikki-kun	>.<	16:18
Corsac	mikki-kun: since the beer invention?	16:18
chem\|st	~blowjob ZogG	16:18
chem\|st	ok that doesnt work	16:18
ZogG	chem\|st, ~blowjob ZogG*	16:18
mikki-kun	i thought wd-40 and ductape would fix everything...	16:18
ZogG	haha	16:18
chem\|st	mikki-kun: thats for mechanical stuff	16:19
ZogG	it's wierd i went to sleep with full batt and in 5 hours it was over, no program running =\	16:19
mikki-kun	as well as for software... never heard of /dev/ductape and /sys/dev/wd-40 ?	16:19
chem\|st	ZogG: had that with PR1 back in february	16:20
ZogG	MohammadAG, haha, say it to ovi	16:20
vanadismobile	battery is loading now	16:20
Xenon\|XZ	vandis - what was it?	16:20
ZogG	chem\|st first time happened	16:20
chem\|st	ZogG: I had that day after day	16:21
ZogG	chem\|st, i heard of different bugs i didn't have till pr1.2 =)	16:21
vanadismobile	loose connection	16:21
vanadismobile	it stopped now...	16:21
Xenon\|XZ	:(	16:21
ZogG	MohammadAG, are you going again to get whores and drugs from PT?	16:21
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ZogG	vanadismobile, you don't need connection, internet is not real	16:21
MohammadAG	ZogG, they don't have those afiak, IL is for those ;)	16:21
ZogG	MohammadAG, yeah, that's why you need to bring them here =)	16:22
ZogG	MohammadAG, you know you don't have to suffer at board everytime	16:22
MohammadAG	ZogG, I don't lol	16:23
ZogG	you just can dig up tunnel from your house :D	16:23
MohammadAG	sssh	16:23
ZogG	>_>	16:23
ZogG	<_<	16:23
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ZogG	have i blown your secret? =(	16:23
ZogG	stylo is a good song	16:24
* ZogG xmms2> Gorillaz - Stylo (feat. Bobby Womack and Mos Def) ["Plastic Beach" 2010]		16:24
ZogG	wazd, have you done any maemo5 theme?	16:24
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wazd	ZogG: yes	16:24
ZogG	link	16:24
wazd	http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2010/02/01/marina-theme/	16:24
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ZogG	not bad	16:25
satmd	nice	16:26
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ZogG	anyway i wonder why the speaker icon in statusbar's popup is not used as mute?	16:26
ZogG	it's anyway there	16:26
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b-man17	wow	16:26
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ZogG	small things — that's what makes me happy	16:26
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ZogG	so i watched wolfmnan yesterday, what was gorlum doing there?	16:27
b-man17	wazd: excellent work :)	16:27
wazd	b-man17: thanks, I'm trying to update it for 1.2	16:27
ZogG	and did Mark Benard from FlashForward died or not?	16:27
wazd	b-man17: but I can't find proper template	16:27
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b-man17	hmm	16:28
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Xenon\|XZ	has anyone noticed that the Personal Dataplan monitor (v0.5-5) doesnt work in PR1.2 ?	16:29
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Xenon\|XZ	does launch but ignores data count	16:30
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Shapeshifter	Does someone know where I can get tput from? is it in some gnu package or something?	16:30
ZogG	www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkNxbyp6thM&feature=related - HAHAHA	16:30
* DocScrutinizer mooes at the sun		16:32
ZogG	DocScrutinizer, sup	16:33
vanad1s	when connected by usb -> the device starts, then the yellow led ist lighting for ~2 secs, then gets green and shuts off	16:33
ZogG	fu internet, i don't have any life cause of you	16:33
Shapeshifter	without tput, I could run this highly entertaining cellular automata script	16:33
DocScrutinizer	ZogG: welcome to the club	16:34
ZogG	vanad1s bad karma	16:34
ZogG	DocScrutinizer is it party today? \o/	16:34
DocScrutinizer	internet party :-S	16:34
vanad1s	ZogG, gonna reflash the device now	16:34
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Termana	hey DocScrutinizer	16:35
DocScrutinizer	hey	16:35
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ZogG	vanad1s do it	16:35
*** flo_lap is now known as florian		16:35
MohammadAG	<DocScrutinizer> internet party :-S	16:35
MohammadAG	drinks are on me	16:36
ZogG	\|~_ ← kinda nike symbol =)	16:36
* MohammadAG passes lcuk's 99 bottles of beer		16:36
* Termana tips his drink on MohammadAG		16:36
Termana	literally	16:36
Termana	ON him	16:36
DocScrutinizer	vanad1s: (green off) that's really strange	16:36
vanad1s	suitable device not found -.-	16:36
DocScrutinizer	vanad1s: or what do you mean by "shuts off"?	16:36
ZogG	www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yptlm8h198o - best adv ever	16:36
madduck	has anyone seen the n900 boot to the SIM card PIN entry, then the top part above the dialog turns white and the phone reboots	16:36
madduck	?	16:36
MohammadAG	not me	16:37
DocScrutinizer	vanad1s: the green light -> black off?	16:37
vanad1s	DocScrutinizer, yes	16:37
DocScrutinizer	vanad1s: or green stays on and screen goes black?	16:37
satmd	does 1.2 have a way to set the default call type on the dialpad?	16:38
vanad1s	1. i put the usb in	16:38
vanad1s	2. the device vibrates and the yellow leds starts blinking two times	16:38
vanad1s	3. the led changes to green	16:38
lipe	Anyone unable to connect to a network with cisco wpa-leap auth?	16:38
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ZogG	vanad1s green is ok, red is pregnant (would do you expect of putting you usb plug in? )	16:38
vanad1s	what?	16:39
apol	is there any way so that when I try to uninstall something it doesn't try to upgrade my system?	16:39
DocScrutinizer	~trout ZogG	16:39
* infobot slaps ZogG around a bit with a large trout!		16:39
MohammadAG	vanad1s, then the display goes off	16:39
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madduck	any idea how i can regain control of the phone?	16:39
vanad1s	exactly	16:39
MohammadAG	that's soft power off	16:39
MohammadAG	the device is just charging	16:40
ZogG	madduck sudo :D	16:40
MohammadAG	hold the power button and it powers on	16:40
vanad1s	no it's not, that's the problem	16:40
MohammadAG	~nuke Nouveau native support in Ubuntu	16:40
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at Nouveau native support in Ubuntu ... B☢☢M!		16:40
madduck	ZogG: if it won't boot?	16:40
ZogG	vanad1s hold for a long time till the led is white	16:40
ZogG	madduck sudo boot	16:40
ZogG	madduck have you upgraded or what?	16:40
ZogG	MohammadAG use nvidia, Luke	16:41
DocScrutinizer	vanad1s: well, my N900 has a broken power switch	16:41
DocScrutinizer	vanad1s: somewhat similar problem	16:41
madduck	no, there was some application upgrades last night, and the personal dataplan monitor could not be upgraded due to a conflict with hildon-something	16:41
vanad1s	DocScrutinizer, okay, and what did you do?	16:41
madduck	and then suddenly, there were internal errors and e.g. the Phone application wouldn't start anymore	16:41
madduck	so i rebooted	16:41
madduck	and now it's power-cycling endlessly	16:41
ZogG	madduck flash it	16:42
MohammadAG	theer's always R&... no	16:42
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DocScrutinizer	for now it works occasionally. but I could et a parameter in flasher r&d mode so it stays on when plugging in to usb	16:42
ZogG	MohammadAG shhh, don't you see grownups are talking	16:42
madduck	it starts, vibrates, shows Nokia on white, then the little busy dots, then black, then again the busy dots, then white led and nokia on white, then black, then restart.	16:42
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madduck	ZogG: the OS, eh?	16:42
MohammadAG	madduck, a video could help :)	16:43
ZogG	madduck yes, prob hildon or X is brokne =)	16:43
MohammadAG	oh nvm	16:43
madduck	MohammadAG: really?	16:43
MohammadAG	sorry I thought vanad1s said that	16:43
ZogG	MohammadAG phone can't log in into X prob =)	16:43
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madduck	ZogG: okay, so i will flash	16:43
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MohammadAG	NOLO should have a framebuffer option	16:44
MohammadAG	that doesn't need a kernel reflash	16:44
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MohammadAG	ideally fbcon would be toggled by holding the F button	16:44
DocScrutinizer	vanad1s: you should test with just battery in, if you can power it up or at least make led shine by pressing powerbutton	16:44
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vanad1s	DocScrutinizer, that works properly	16:45
vanad1s	the device is normaly booting	16:45
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ZogG	madduck have a backup?	16:45
madduck	ZogG: of the data?	16:45
DocScrutinizer	vanad1s: sorry then I'm out of ideas	16:45
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madduck	not a recent one, but it doesn't matter much	16:46
madduck	i thought flashing didn't erase the data	16:46
Xenon\|XZ	cheers	16:46
DocScrutinizer	vanad1s: what happens when you plug in the charger on a working system?	16:46
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ZogG	madduck apps and contacts and calendar	16:46
vanad1s	the charger is working	16:46
DocScrutinizer	vanad1s: then lock the screen with the sliding switch	16:47
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madduck	ZogG: i have the contacts elsewhere, the apps i'll just reinstall, and i don't use the calendar, so…	16:47
DocScrutinizer	should show green led and black screen	16:47
Shapeshifter	lol hildon-desktop is such a fail app.	16:47
madduck	i assume my conversations (SMS) will be gone too	16:47
vanad1s	DocScrutinizer, no it's not showing the green led	16:47
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MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, dpkg -r it (seriously, don't do that)	16:48
ZogG	madduck so you are good. do know how to flash?	16:48
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madduck	ZogG: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware?	16:49
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: btw, do you know a way of restarting it in PR1.2? since I updated, a pkill hildon-desktop reboots the n900.	16:49
Shapeshifter	before, it just restarted hildon-desktop	16:49
madduck	only problem is that I am on amd64, and the flasher tool seems to be i386 only	16:49
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, pkill?	16:50
ZogG	madduck yeap	16:50
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, killall hildon-desktop works for me	16:50
Shapeshifter	ah nevermind, I found dsmetool -k	16:50
pupnik	how bout "reboot"	16:50
ZogG	madduck windows?	16:50
madduck	ZogG: no, debian.	16:51
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ZogG	madduck it works under 64	16:51
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ZogG	MohammadAG, do you use fmms?	16:51
madduck	it does?	16:52
madduck	% sudo flasher-3.5 #10088	16:52
madduck	flasher-3.5: error while loading shared libraries: libusb-0.1.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory	16:52
MohammadAG	ZogG, yeah	16:52
ZogG	madduck i dunno i used it under gentoo 64	16:52
madduck	i have libusb installed, but 64bit.	16:52
ZogG	MohammadAG any special options?	16:52
madduck	oh, i have chroots! ;)	16:52
MohammadAG	ZogG, ?	16:52
ZogG	madduck i use multilib but anyway it's not the problem imo	16:52
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ZogG	MohammadAG can it screw up configs of internet or something? you just run it and that's all?	16:53
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MohammadAG	ZogG, yep, it works perfectly after installation	16:53
madduck	now it works in the chroot	16:53
MohammadAG	(except the part where IL Oragne f'd it, but that's not frals's fault)	16:53
ZogG	MohammadAG il orange what	16:54
MohammadAG	f'd, short for fsck'd	16:54
ZogG	MohammadAG yeah i understand that part	16:54
ZogG	in which way i mean?	16:55
MohammadAG	ZogG, I can't receive MMS	16:55
MohammadAG	ZogG, it goes into some obox album crap	16:55
ZogG	MohammadAG haha	16:55
ZogG	do you use polite hovac or third option?	16:55
* lcuk kicks python for its date handling		16:55
MohammadAG	Havoc, which is the third option afaik	16:56
madduck	ZogG: it's flashing. thanks	16:56
* MohammadAG kicks lcuk for kicking python		16:56
ZogG	MohammadAG does it screw the internet connection? last time it did	16:56
* ZogG kicks MohammadAG for joy		16:56
lcuk	ValueError: time data 'Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:18:34' does not match format '%a, %d %m %Y %H:%M:%S'	16:56
MohammadAG	Nope, no problems here	16:56
ZogG	MohammadAG do you use fapn or else?	16:56
MohammadAG	What's %a?	16:57
MohammadAG	ZogG, nope, it autocreates the apn now	16:57
lcuk	day of the week	16:57
MohammadAG	afaik	16:57
lcuk	abbreviated or full name	16:57
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ZogG	MohammadAG and it switches every x minuts?	16:57
MohammadAG	lcuk, it obviously hates you	16:58
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: %m != feb ?	16:58
madduck	ZogG: it's booting again. but it really just put it back to factory default.	16:58
madduck	oh no!	16:58
MohammadAG	ZogG, MMS is a push service	16:58
madduck	it even kept my background!	16:58
madduck	and calendar!	16:58
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, that would be it :) ta	16:58
* lcuk is goin blind with python		16:58
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lcuk	i have had a function which just does this for years	16:58
madduck	and all conversations	16:58
ZogG	madduck told ya	16:59
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BCMM	how does one get started programming for maemo?	16:59
ZogG	<MohammadAG> ZogG, MMS is a push service ?	17:00
BCMM	(if one already knows C)	17:00
ZogG	BCMM you get QT creator SDK and here you goes	17:00
ZogG	go/*	17:00
* lcuk changes it to %b and fixes up the other things		17:01
BCMM	i thought there was a maemo-specific SDK?#	17:01
frals	lcuk: strptime!	17:01
pigeon	anyone uses the java (icedtea6/microemulator) on the n900?	17:01
lcuk	frals ill strangeptime	17:02
MohammadAG	ZogG, it doesn't need to check at set intervals - that's what frals told me	17:02
lcuk	strangle	17:02
frals	yes mms is a push service (mostly)	17:02
lcuk	all because i want to format a list of items by frikkin date	17:02
frals	there is a protocol for checking mmbox but its ... bah	17:02
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ZogG	MohammadAG haha got new fmms, now don't have 3G connection at all	17:03
frals	lcuk: yeah, ive tried inserting everything in the same format in my db in fmms.. i gave up :p	17:03
frals	now im doing ~2 strptime each time i need to show a date :/	17:03
lcuk	thats actually bad frals :P	17:03
vanad1s	okay, gonna bring the device to the vendor, fuck this shit	17:03
BCMM	iirc MMS does something a bit weird like send an SMS with the URL of the message	17:03
BCMM	then the phone downloads the actual message	17:03
frals	lcuk: i know	17:04
frals	lcuk: but if you get every operator to agree on one time format ill fix my code ;)	17:04
* lcuk looks to the sky and says GIVE ME VISUAL BASIC BACK		17:04
DocScrutinizer	mms is a sms with a URL inside	17:04
DocScrutinizer	:-P	17:04
ZogG	frals so the notification release still is not in devel?	17:04
* MohammadAG drops a visual basic crate at lcuk		17:05
lcuk	:D supply drop	17:05
ZogG	MohammadAG send me mms	17:05
Wolfie	frals: why did you decide to center-align the mms message input?	17:05
ZogG	MohammadAG NOW!!! =)	17:05
frals	Wolfie: because nokia ux experts suggested it ;)	17:05
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MohammadAG	lcuk, enemy care package actually :P	17:05
Wolfie	frals: wtf... that makes no sense	17:05
MohammadAG	ZogG, yeah... sure	17:05
*** RST38h_ is now known as RST38h		17:05
frals	ZogG: its been in devel for a while	17:05
DocScrutinizer	~lart lcuk for mentioning VB	17:05
* infobot throws lcuk's poor little doggy off a cliff for mentioning VB		17:05
Wolfie	did they also suggest to cut words in the middle when the line changes?	17:06
MohammadAG	what kernel parameter allows me to boot into runlevel 3?	17:06
ZogG	frals don't see it in statusarea popup as in your screenies	17:06
DocScrutinizer	though actually, it kinda worked	17:06
ZogG	MohammadAG srs, can you send me mms?	17:06
DocScrutinizer	back in 2000 when I touched it last time	17:06
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lcuk	DocScrutinizer, :(	17:07
MohammadAG	ZogG, I'm missing something, your damn number	17:07
frals	ZogG: anything in the log?	17:07
* lcuk installs visual basic on DocScrutinizer's computer		17:07
* DocScrutinizer starts fsck to remove the 'bad blocks'		17:08
frals	Wolfie: does it do that?	17:08
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: appending 3 should be enough	17:08
ZogG	frals log? does fmms has a log, didn't know	17:08
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, should I just put that in the kernel line?	17:08
lcuk	frals, using amazing gitorious line numbers where abouts is your str formatting code	17:08
lcuk	so i can see how a pro does it :P	17:09
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: yeah. just "3"	17:09
ZogG	MohammadAG orange	17:09
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ZogG	frals where i check the log?	17:09
TomaszD	zaheerm, ping	17:09
ZogG	frals btw i started fmms and than upgraded, do i need to kill the process to restart it?	17:10
frals	ZogG: restart fmms is probably good after upgrading	17:10
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frals	ZogG: /tmp/fmms.log	17:10
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ZogG	frals process name?	17:10
juve3	ciao a tutti	17:10
frals	fmms_gui.py	17:10
frals	lcuk: http://gitorious.org/fmms/fmms/blobs/master/controller.py#line76	17:10
juve3	!list	17:10
frals	lcuk: disclaimer: its ugly as hell ;D	17:10
ZogG	frals the gui is killed	17:10
frals	lcuk: and probably doesnt handle all cases, add try/except as suitable... ;D	17:11
lcuk	frals, perfect thanks	17:11
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* RST38h wonders if he should haunt tmo tonight		17:11
lcuk	:)_	17:11
lcuk	-_	17:11
RST38h	Find some vulnerable soul and help it on the way to the asylum	17:11
pupnik	heheh	17:11
Juozapas	hi, all maemo programs is free ?	17:11
Stskeeps	no	17:11
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Stskeeps	but many	17:12
ZogG	MohammadAG, got sms =)	17:12
ZogG	to see the pict go blahblah site	17:12
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MohammadAG	ZogG, told ya	17:13
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MohammadAG	ZogG, give them a call, if it works I'll do it :P	17:13
Wolfie	frals: i think it does... don't have my phone with me, but i think the line wrap doesn't take word boundaries into account	17:13
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frals	ops, youre right, ive set it to wrap_char instead of word	17:14
Juozapas	Stskeeps: what happens if i try to download one of them ? maybe the cost can be counted as my phone operator bill?	17:14
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, it still tries to run X	17:14
ZogG	MohammadAG your number?	17:14
ZogG	PM me	17:14
Stskeeps	Juozapas: some things come through ovi store, not sure if it goes over your phone bill.	17:15
Stskeeps	but data transfer might cost	17:15
MohammadAG	ZogG, umm, shouldn't you have got it?	17:15
tybollt	1-800-DONTCALLMEMOSSAD	17:15
Juozapas	ok one more question	17:15
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Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: you could also try "single". do you know if the cd uses grub 1 or 2? because if it's grub 2 you can't "e" (edit), "esc" and then "b". you have to "e", append whatever to the kernel line, and then ctrl-x to boot	17:15
Shapeshifter	as opposed to the e, esc, b in grub1	17:15
madduck	ooooh, PR 1.2 is out	17:15
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MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, using ISOLinux	17:16
madduck	but basically, I should be able to install 1.1.1 and upgrade, right?	17:16
madduck	this is debian after all ;)	17:16
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: oh right xD	17:16
Juozapas	how to keep off my operator interner (it's very expensive). I want to use only wifi and if there isn't wifi spot just dont connect to web or something	17:16
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: then it doesn't matter I guess. in any case, try "single" and I thought there was an ubuntu cli installer	17:16
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Wolfie	Juozapas: isn't there a setting that makes the phone always ask you for connection before it does that	17:16
Shapeshifter	"simple installer" or something	17:16
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MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, I cba to download another image	17:17
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: also, I'm guessing you're having a driver problem? ATI card by chance?	17:17
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ZogG	frals, it's ok.	17:17
Juozapas	Wolfie: yeah, it ask for password be i even know that password but it still connect if i type some rando pass	17:17
Juozapas	*random	17:18
ZogG	it there is icon and all the stuf when i send, i thought it works always as i run it	17:18
Juozapas	maybe there'is some more powerful option ?	17:18
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MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, nope, they added kernel support for nouveau, it shouldn't cause any problems with intel cards yet my laptop doesn't boot up	17:18
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: what now, intel or nvidia?	17:19
ZogG	MohammadAG got it?	17:19
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: what I'm trying to say is that you could try disabling KMS.	17:19
MohammadAG	ZogG, nothing yet	17:20
Juozapas	by the way, make a video call with skype it's still impossible ?	17:20
ZogG	MohammadAG hmm	17:20
DocScrutinizer	Juozapas: remove the connection in internet in setup	17:20
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MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, my lappy's chipset is intel	17:20
Corsac	I read “lady” …	17:20
Corsac	:/	17:20
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, I uninstalled xserver-xorg-video-nouveau	17:20
MohammadAG	wonder if that will actually work...	17:20
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: I still don't understand what you'r trying to do where. Aren't you trying to boot an install CD?	17:20
DocScrutinizer	Juozapas: honestly I can't see how it works without you configuring it first instance	17:21
Shapeshifter	and what are you doing with nouveau on an intel chipset?	17:21
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, yeah, it boots up properly but when GDM loads up the laptop just hangs	17:21
Juozapas	DocScrutinizer: cant delete operator's connection	17:21
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, it's built into the stock Ubuntu kernel now	17:21
Juozapas	it blanks delete' button	17:21
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DocScrutinizer	Juozapas: you always need to set up AP name for GPRS connection	17:21
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: ...	17:21
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DocScrutinizer	Juozapas: then change AP name to random crap	17:22
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: uhm, still, nouveau has nothing to do with intel cards. if you have an intel card, you can foget about nouveau	17:22
MohammadAG	ZogG, same SMS crap	17:22
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: you can use i915.modeset=0 on the kernel line to disable KMS	17:22
Shapeshifter	if you have intel	17:22
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, I added nomodeset	17:22
Shapeshifter	if you have nvidia, as you're talking about nouveau all the time, it would be modeset=0	17:22
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ZogG	MohammadAG, btw do they work at shabes?	17:23
MohammadAG	ZogG, who?	17:23
MohammadAG	oh, orange?	17:23
MohammadAG	they should	17:23
Juozapas	DocScrutinizer: ok, it helped thx ;)	17:23
sobczyk	hi, I've downloaded opera mini and it's great, one of the features stands out, the virtual keyboard that is visible when the physical is not. I wonder whether something similar could be done with the default maemo keyboard? I would want to use korean keyboard, not some romanization input	17:24
MohammadAG	failsafe x worked \o/	17:24
DocScrutinizer	WTF is 'delete' not enabled for GPRS interent connection???	17:24
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tybollt	!	17:25
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, no, you have to use WAIT FOR IT... GCONF!	17:25
Juozapas	hey what about skype video calling ?	17:25
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: wut?	17:25
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, gconf	17:26
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, ask frals, he knows about this stuff more than I do (fAPN)	17:26
DocScrutinizer	ge ce oh en ef	17:26
DocScrutinizer	yeah what?	17:26
frals	?	17:26
frals	wut?	17:27
MohammadAG	frals, how can DocScrutinizer delete an APN?	17:27
MohammadAG	default one	17:27
MohammadAG	fAPN allows deletion of new ones only afaik	17:27
frals	gconftool-2 -R /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/	17:27
ZogG	frals there is port number in setting? is it for proxy?	17:27
ZogG	or it's for connection?	17:27
frals	and then gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/<id>	17:27
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, there you go, go have some gconf love :P	17:27
frals	ZogG: for proxy	17:27
ZogG	MohammadAG iandroid.co.il/dr-iandroid/archives/608	17:27
DocScrutinizer	fuggit	17:28
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DocScrutinizer	why can't I delete the default GPRS connection in settings-internetconnections ?	17:28
frals	because then a normal user would do it, and then thered be chaos ;)	17:29
DocScrutinizer	that's mean	17:29
ZogG	frals i found android configuration for mms, they have MMC and MNC as well, any idea what is that/	17:29
frals	no need for those, they are related to operator and not needed	17:29
frals	its identifiers for oprator pretty much afaik	17:29
ZogG	frals jsut we got sms that we have mms instead mms =)	17:30
lcuk	frals, DocScrutinizer thanks :)	17:30
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DocScrutinizer	err?	17:30
frals	np (?)	17:30
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DocScrutinizer	I did nothing! ( (c) bart simpson)	17:31
ZogG	frals portrait mode looks okay btw =)	17:31
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, you spotted the bug in default format i was using and frals showed me about exception handling :P	17:31
ZogG	frals nope only when writting not at the mms list =)	17:31
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frals	once i get the energy im going to make the qwerty keyboard i made for vertsms into a proper module and try to get portrait mode mms composing	17:31
lcuk	without even realising it :)	17:31
ZogG	frals the ctrl+shift+r is ok =)	17:31
frals	the mainview shouldnt be as the widths are hardcoded there ;)	17:32
Macer	hm	17:32
Macer	microb seems broken after updating	17:32
* wazd curses nokia for no portrait media player once again		17:32
Macer	like.. some pages seem to hang	17:33
ZogG	MohammadAG remindme tomorrow to call them	17:33
MohammadAG	ZogG, call them, NOW	17:33
Juozapas	somehow pixelpipe authorize always fail, any ideas ?	17:33
ZogG	wazd make the voodoo dance	17:33
Juozapas	im using mastory	17:33
ZogG	MohammadAG meh	17:33
MohammadAG	GRRR	17:33
Macer	wazd: i agree	17:33
MohammadAG	Windows has the partition locked cause of an unclean shutdown	17:33
Macer	the no portrait media player is lame	17:33
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MohammadAG	damn bastards	17:33
wazd	ZogG: it doesn't work properly even with ctrl+shift+r	17:33
lcuk	i made n900 reboot instantly and reproducably last night o_O	17:34
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: frals: now ponder that - I got an APN/GPRS connection that 'expires' some certain date in month and I want to change the APN at that very moment automatically as otherwise each MB costs me 14.99$	17:34
wazd	ZogG: height is hardcoded	17:34
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, make a daemon for it :)	17:34
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, on a more serious note, use alarmed and run that command	17:34
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: "normal user will get confused"	17:35
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wazd	Macer: it's just too tricky to switch tracks on the go in landscape	17:35
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, use root :)	17:35
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DocScrutinizer	got no root to use. No plants here :-P	17:36
DocScrutinizer	[2010-05-29 16:29:08] <frals> because then a normal user would do it, and then thered be chaos ;)	17:36
Macer	wazi know	17:36
Macer	it sucks	17:36
ZogG	wazd i know	17:36
pupnik	Want government management of network services? What are the negative consequences? http://mises.org/daily/4432	17:37
ZogG	MohammadAG tring to play with configs now	17:37
Macer	heh	17:37
DocScrutinizer	quite honestly, for everything but a single standard usecase (= customer has a dataplan incl flatrate) the internet connection settings seem quite retarded	17:39
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DocScrutinizer	I'd not recommend to get a N900 anyway, if you're not willing to get a decent dataplan. But nevertheless this feels totally fubar	17:41
madduck	oh if only i could select multiple applications to download and install, rather than going through them one by one…	17:42
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DocScrutinizer	no way to define precedence of particular connections over others, no way to disable particular connections, no way to delete GPRS packet connection AT ALL - WTF?!	17:43
SwedeMike	DocScrutinizer: gprs connection name changes name with SIM as well, that's fun.	17:44
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, yeah, Nokia people get tunnel vision	17:45
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GAN900	What with their company-paid dataplans and whatnot.	17:46
DocScrutinizer	usecase: I have a private wifi AP with low range, a GPRS flatrate with a faraway basestation so I get flaky connect, and a local hotspot with rather high fee. how the hell am I supposed to config that like prio1:local wifi, prio2:GPRS, prio3:hotspot ?	17:46
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DocScrutinizer	SwedeMike: yep	17:48
DocScrutinizer	SwedeMike: not to think about roaming <looking scared>	17:48
madduck	is there really no way to install multiple apps at once?	17:49
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DocScrutinizer	GAN900: quite fine the whole connectivity management is totally FOS then - nah wait, is it? :-o	17:49
SwedeMike	DocScrutinizer: well, I actually don't think it's a major problem, only time it annoyed me was when I wanted to look at the maps in "offline mode" which doesn't seem to exist.	17:51
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DocScrutinizer	SwedeMike: It becomes a problem for me once a month, as the above described situation isn't fictive (dataplan expires, MB costs $$$ over same APN then)	17:53
DocScrutinizer	SwedeMike: I'd like to switch to a different GPRS paccket connection (APN) then, by simply changing something in "conections" like I do when I select a wifi AP	17:54
SwedeMike	DocScrutinizer: what are you solving by changing APN? that it won't connect at all?	17:55
Shapeshifter	I really don't get wth hildon-desktop thinks it is doing. Why it will almost always launch an application only once. I tried adding X-Multiple=true and X-Multiple-Instances=true and same with false and combinations of it, and for some inane reason, it seemingly works with 'X-Multiple=true', if done in exactly this sequence: have an open window (no matter what app), edit .desktop file to add this line, run application from menu or ...	17:55
Shapeshifter	... desktop shortcut - several times. It opens fine. but as soon as you close all of them, and rerun the same shortcut again and again, it yet again only opens it once!	17:55
Shapeshifter	it's insane. it just doesn't work. It's broken.	17:55
DocScrutinizer	but I can not create a 2nd packet connection, I can NOT disable the single one default one, only thing I can do is step thru the settings and enter the whole crap from top of my head	17:55
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SpeedEvil	fapn?	17:55
satmd	I was about to mention that too	17:56
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SwedeMike	DocScrutinizer: I have turned off that mine autoconnects to GPRS, isn't that what you want to accomplish?	17:56
DocScrutinizer	SwedeMike: I change my bill, as the other APN only charges $/MB instead of $$$/MB	17:56
SwedeMike	DocScrutinizer: wow, your mobile provider really tries to screw you.	17:57
DocScrutinizer	SwedeMike: no, I want to have 2 or more preconfigured APN to choose from	17:57
ShadowJK	hm, my n900 has deadlocked itself :/	17:57
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: security feature :-P	17:57
DocScrutinizer	it heard about APN madness	17:58
SpeedEvil	Filing a bug is probably a good idea.	17:58
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: yes	17:58
SpeedEvil	Explain your telcos data services, and why you want to do this	17:58
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SwedeMike	I'd imagine that is not a bug, it's a feature request. In most countries/companies it doesn't really make sense to have multiple APNs.	17:59
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: anyway, the setup and functionality as is, it's quite braindamaged, isn't it?	18:00
SpeedEvil	basically	18:00
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SwedeMike	speaking of which, I'd like to reset my "dataplan monitor" counters every month, I haven't been able to find a way to do that?	18:00
ZogG	does ps3 supports ext2?	18:00
MohammadAG	I LOL'd ZogG	18:01
DocScrutinizer	I can't even get precedence of GPRS connection over WLAN	18:01
ZogG	MohammadAG whaT?	18:01
SpeedEvil	I sometimes want that too.	18:01
SpeedEvil	I normally want to roam onto wifi if I can.	18:02
Ikarus	SwedeMike: I do it with a crontab entry	18:02
MohammadAG	ZogG, no, but then again what OS other than linux/unix supports ext2	18:02
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: otoh that's a 1000% sure WONTFIX for maemo until PR17.4	18:02
MohammadAG	ZogG, got a PS3?	18:02
Ikarus	SwedeMike: But I might be able to hack a little UI around it and package it	18:02
ZogG	MohammadAG yes	18:02
DocScrutinizer	so what's the use in filing a bug?	18:02
MohammadAG	ZogG, PSN ID?	18:02
ZogG	MohammadAG, got a deal	18:02
SpeedEvil	Unless I've expicitly disconnected from wifi as it's broken, and I want to connect to GPRS.	18:02
ZogG	MohammadAG TheZogG i think - but didn't upgraded it to last fw i think =	18:02
ZogG	MohammadAG i use my flashusb on winxp at work with ext2 =)	18:03
MohammadAG	ZogG, if you're waiting for the Geohot stuff don't hold your breath :)	18:03
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ZogG	MohammadAG i know he has no interest in it. just connection in israel crappy anyway	18:03
Trizt	Ikarus; would be nice if you could add a history too to the UI, so you can compare months	18:04
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Ikarus	Trizt: hrm, should be doable	18:04
ZogG	MohammadAG i bought NEW ps3 with 2 new joypads with cabel and 2 games from yad2 and it has bug.co.il garantee and it was 1900 or somethink like that, maybe even less	18:04
Ikarus	Trizt: I'll see	18:04
Ikarus	I didn't quite need that detail myself	18:05
SwedeMike	Ikarus: that would be nice, lot's of people at http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/personal-gprs-mon/?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nehmer_comments_comment_page=2 seems to want it, but then again, that might be a different one from the one I'm using, because that reset method there doesn't seem to work	18:05
ZogG	MohammadAG your ID is MohammadAG as i assume	18:05
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Ikarus	my data plan just involves after blowing 2GB through I get demoted in speed	18:05
* Trizt nods		18:05
Shapeshifter	Even if I do Exec=/bin/ash -c urxvt , which is of course insane, it only launches it once	18:05
MohammadAG	ZogG, how'd you guess? :P	18:05
Shapeshifter	And also if I use urxvtd + urxvtc	18:06
Shapeshifter	... It's black magic, bad magic.	18:06
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ZogG	http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_AQm2-lLOkvw/StwoFok8UlI/AAAAAAAABIE/tYntsEBRVqc/s400/IMG_3110.JPG	18:06
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: the sad thing is, I have a nice requirements spec and architecture design inside my head for this, but it's a waste of time writing it down as it will get binned for "too complex, don't need that"	18:07
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* madduck dies of boredom installing dozens of apps ONE AFTER THE OTHER		18:09
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slonopotamus	madduck: apt-get install x y z	18:10
SwedeMike	my major complaint about n900 is standby time, sometimes it seems to gobble juice like there is no tomorrow.	18:10
madduck	slonopotamus: i was told one should not use apt-get directly because the app manager does extra magic.	18:10
slonopotamus	oh my... /me deinstall all aps he installed with apt-get on maemo during last three years	18:11
Aranel	Is it possible to use Facebook,MSN,Ovi or anything else without merging contacts with Contacts app? It's frustrating to see lots of contacts on list when I don't even need them on my mobile.	18:13
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: "type=wlan; name=athome; baseprio=5; on signal <50 prio-=50; on exec="if ping -c 1 ct.de; then false; else true; fi" prio-=50; on flightmode prio-=50	18:18
pupnik	hey interesting	18:19
pupnik	does thatm help keep your connection up?	18:19
DocScrutinizer	that would help keep my mood towards N900 connection handling up	18:19
Shapeshifter	Aranel: afaik no and I find it quite annoying as well	18:19
Shapeshifter	but hey, pretty much all the nokia made apps suck big time.	18:20
ali1234	Aranel: well designed services allow you to select which contacts are actually visible	18:21
ali1234	Aranel: for example you can do it in google (and the contacts list in the phone updates in real time as you edit your contacts on the google website)	18:22
ali1234	i have not yet figured out how you do it with facebook	18:22
Shapeshifter	lol @ /tmp/hildon-welcome-is-finished	18:23
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Aranel	ali1234: I think Groups would do it, It's possible to show a group (for ex, Facebook) but It's not possible to hide a group, which we need to do.	18:24
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ali1234	it's possible to show/hide grounds in the facebook web chat thingy, it just doesn't carry over to the maemo plugin unfortunately	18:25
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ali1234	i was trying to do this about half an hour ago	18:25
ali1234	playing with the video calling atm	18:25
ali1234	its quite good	18:25
ali1234	although the camera seems to stop adapting to light conditions once you start making a call	18:25
ali1234	which will suck if you start out in the sun and then go indoors during a call	18:26
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ali1234	other person will only see black	18:26
TomaszD	it does adapt, but it takes too long, is what I found out	18:26
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pupnik	video call over irc yet? :P	18:27
ali1234	doubt it	18:27
ali1234	is there a plugin like bonjour which supports video? ie lan only?	18:27
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pupnik	dunno lets search	18:27
ali1234	i had a search, didn't help much	18:28
ali1234	i think bonjour might support video using a mac-only protocol	18:28
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DocScrutinizer	eeeek, bonjour	18:29
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DocScrutinizer	~lart avahi	18:32
* infobot gives avahi a good seeing to		18:32
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ZogG	~poke DocScrutinizer	18:33
* infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind DocScrutinizer, pokes DocScrutinizer repeatedly, hilarity ensues.		18:33
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mc_teo	i just flashed windows onto my n900	18:33
mc_teo	!	18:33
pupnik	icculus.org/cdogs-sdl/files/cdogs-sdl-current.tar.bz2 game port candidate	18:35
mc_teo	i joke, i joke!	18:35
mc_teo	no windows for me	18:35
BCMM	no X Windows? what went wrong?	18:36
ZogG	mc_teo win is rulez	18:36
mc_teo	...	18:36
mc_teo	why is you here?	18:37
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ZogG	mc_teo why not?	18:37
DocScrutinizer	I wonder if there's anything to sync contacts, maybe even calendar, to ovi or webdav or my local vcard fatabes, which works ootb now on pr1.2, without going thru install&config hell	18:37
mc_teo	DocScrutinizer: export?	18:38
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DocScrutinizer	s/fatabes/database/	18:38
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: I wonder if there's anything to sync contacts, maybe even calendar, to ovi or webdav or my local vcard database, which works ootb now on pr1.2, without going thru install&config hell	18:38
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mc_teo	scp, then import	18:38
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DocScrutinizer	that's not exactly what I call sync	18:38
mc_teo	BCMM: x windows is ok, i was speaking about ms windows	18:38
BCMM	mc_teo: what's MS windows?	18:39
mc_teo	ZogG: actually windows fails quite spectacularly	18:39
pupnik	Windows are for people stuck behind walls.	18:39
mc_teo	you could always just use some Gates?	18:40
DocScrutinizer	I hate the gates way	18:40
Shapeshifter	oh god. hildon-desktop really keeps a list of apps launched using it >.<	18:44
Shapeshifter	incredibly daft	18:44
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Shapeshifter	hardcoded in C	18:44
DocScrutinizer	wth?!	18:44
Shapeshifter	http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop/hildon-desktop/blobs/master/src/launcher/hd-app-mgr.c#line756	18:46
ZogG	mc_teo it's not. windows is cool. linux is not working out of box	18:46
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pupnik	why is that bad Shapeshifter	18:46
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Shapeshifter	pupnik: because you can't launch multiple instances of the same app using the menu or the desktop shortcuts?	18:47
Shapeshifter	obviously?	18:47
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pupnik	i made a terminal app shortcut that gives multiple xterms	18:47
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pupnik	would that help?	18:48
Shapeshifter	pupnik: can you share that?	18:48
Shapeshifter	pupnik: yes.	18:48
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lardman	hey chaps	18:48
pupnik	where to share.. t.m.o?	18:48
pupnik	hi	18:48
lardman	hi pupnik	18:48
Shapeshifter	pupnik: pastie.org	18:49
jaska	i wonder what keeps launching intellisyncd with the -a parameter, like in osso-backup restore scripts	18:49
jaska	normally intellisyncd shouldnt start if its disabled in /home/user/.intellisyncd/disabled	18:50
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DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: shift-ctrl-x starts a new xterm?	18:51
Shapeshifter	the hildon launcher is designed as if it was some sort of iphone/android concept where you just have one instance of every app and wake it, and put it to hibernate etc.	18:52
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer51: I want to launch multiple urxvt	18:52
DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: well, there's quite obviously an option missing in .desktop files spec. like sameinstance=no	18:54
pupnik	very slow pastie.org.. Shapeshifter http://paste.debian.net/75331	18:54
DocScrutinizer51	think Imve seen such parameter in enlightenment .desktop files	18:54
pupnik	it only bothers me with xerm	18:55
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer51: there should be X-Multiple-Instances=true, there supposedly is the wrong X-Multiple=true, but none of this works	18:55
pupnik	xterm	18:55
Shapeshifter	pupnik: thanks	18:55
* pupnik is happy to be useful		18:56
DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: that's what I meant, yes	18:56
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* lardman looks at Dell Streak and thinks it's an ideal size, but needs a kb and maemego		18:56
DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: fil a ticket :-)	18:57
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Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer51: hopeless	18:57
DocScrutinizer51	yep	18:57
DocScrutinizer51	so patch the hildon launcher and attach the patch	18:58
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Shapeshifter	pupnik: heh. doesn't work. it works exactly as you pasted it, but if I replace osso-xterm by /usr/bin/urxvt, it only opens one of them.	18:59
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Shapeshifter	pupnik: you know I even made some silly detour script like temp=$(cat /tmp/foobar); urxvt -name $temp &; temp=$((temp+1)); echo $temp > /tmp/foobar which launches every subsequent term with a differen X name (0, 1, 2, 3...)	19:00
Shapeshifter	even that launches only once.	19:00
Shapeshifter	meh	19:01
* Shapeshifter goes for beers.		19:01
DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: btw for xterm and especially things like mc that's a total pita. mc won't start on clicking the icon, if there's a xtern instance running already	19:01
ali1234	what's the deal with the nmap package creating an icon for itself?	19:01
DocScrutinizer51	probably same as for mc	19:02
ali1234	all it does is run nmap with no arguments and then dump you at a shell	19:02
DocScrutinizer51	exec='xterm nmap'	19:02
ali1234	i expect that the package only creates an icon because of some braindead QA rules	19:02
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DocScrutinizer51	maybe they messed it up? should call nmap-fe?	19:03
Shapeshifter	the whole architecture is flawed. It wants to be somewhat androidish while actually there is no sandboxing and task handling like on android	19:03
Shapeshifter	it's fake android	19:04
DocScrutinizer51	let beat up the UX guys ;-)	19:04
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ali1234	nmap-fe isn't installed	19:05
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BCMM	the nmap launcher is weird	19:07
BCMM	plenty of other CLI apps just don't have a link on the menu	19:07
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DocScrutinizer	mc has	19:08
DocScrutinizer	equally useless, as mentioned above	19:09
ali1234	mc does at least keep on running until you quit it	19:09
ali1234	that makes slightly more sense	19:09
ali1234	when you click the nmap icon you get the last few lines of the short usage, and a shell prompt	19:10
ali1234	what i mean is mc is interactive	19:10
ali1234	nmap is not	19:10
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DocScrutinizer	now that's really silly, for nmap	19:11
ali1234	im reporting a bug now	19:12
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DocScrutinizer	"launcher MUST support X-Multiple-Instances=true"	19:14
ali1234	the nmap launcher seems to support that, in that it works even if there is already an terminal open	19:14
ali1234	bug 5839	19:15
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5839 Modest gets stuck updating POP3 mailboxes	19:15
ali1234	hum	19:15
ali1234	no, this 5839: https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=5839&group_id=1367&atid=5044	19:16
DocScrutinizer	ali1234: now that's weird	19:16
DocScrutinizer	(the "nmap launcher seems to support that" part)	19:17
DocScrutinizer	ali1234: mind pastbin the .desktop?	19:18
ali1234	maybe you can only run one "nmap" xterm	19:18
ali1234	sure hang on	19:18
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ali1234	no, seems you can run as many as you want from the icon	19:18
ali1234	http://pastebin.com/CmB2iDpf	19:19
DocScrutinizer	thanks	19:20
mc_teo	whats the deal with ovi chat?	19:20
mc_teo	does it work?	19:20
ali1234	heh, the script it runs instead of nmap directly just does: nmap; echo Use \'sudo nmap\' to run nmap with root privileges. ; sh	19:20
ali1234	i can't believe someone actually went to the trouble of making that	19:21
mc_teo	ZogG: ubuntu is free, they will even send you a free cd, it takes minutes to install, and works perfectly out of the bo	19:21
mc_teo	box*	19:21
Xenon\|XZ	dont like ubuntu :(	19:22
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Xenon\|XZ	:p	19:22
DocScrutinizer51	ok works for mc as well. probably fixed in pr1.0.1	19:22
DocScrutinizer51	mc_teo: yes	19:23
ZogG	mc_teo no it's not	19:23
ali1234	ubuntu used to work perfectly out of the box, then they filled it up with mono crap and vendor moneysinks	19:23
ali1234	luckily it's trivial to remove that stuff	19:24
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ZogG	mc_teo, ubuntu sucks	19:24
ZogG	ubuntu is shitimacos =)	19:24
ZogG	shitty*	19:24
Xenon\|XZ	Gentoo ;-)	19:24
mc_teo	ZogG: i installed 10.04 a fews days ago, and it was fully working out of the box	19:24
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ZogG	mc_teo, windows works out of box too	19:25
ZogG	mac os too	19:25
mc_teo	no it doesnt	19:25
ZogG	yes it is	19:25
mc_teo	mac os is closed source linux btw	19:25
ZogG	mc_teo, what distro do you use?	19:25
mc_teo	vista normally	19:25
ZogG	mc_teo, do i care about close or not =)	19:25
mc_teo	xp on my desktop	19:25
ZogG	mc_teo, and you advertising me linux?	19:26
GAN900	mc_teo, it's not Linux	19:26
ZogG	HAHA	19:26
jaska	its eyecandyized openstep	19:26
ZogG	mc_teo, are you trying to troll me?	19:26
mc_teo	im just saying that for out of the box compatability, ubuntu owns	19:26
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nikki93	Hai.	19:26
nikki93	:D	19:26
ZogG	mc_teo, noooope =)	19:26
nikki93	I have an iPhone. Jailbroke it. It's still not fun enough. :(	19:26
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SpeedEvil	Out of the box compatibility - linux-from-scratch owns.	19:27
ZogG	nikki93, get android on it =)	19:27
SpeedEvil	It just takes longer to open the box.	19:27
ZogG	SpeedEvil, \o/	19:27
swc\|666	rofl	19:27
ZogG	mc_teo, you don	19:27
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nikki93	I made an LFS once.	19:27
ZogG	you don't know to convince peoplel man	19:27
nikki93	Great fun.	19:27
* ZogG sys Linux 2.6.33-gentoo [965P-S3; x86_64 Desktop]		19:28
ZogG	mc_teo, ^	19:28
nikki93	Is n900 kewl?	19:28
Xenon\|XZ	distro[Gentoo Linux (stable)]	19:28
ZogG	Xenon\|XZ, meh, stable is not fun anymore	19:28
Xenon\|XZ	lol	19:28
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: so you looked into what's happening with xterm.desktop, and mc.desktop ?	19:28
nikki93	I heard n900 is very hack-friendly.	19:28
ZogG	nikki93 yesm yu take hammer and you hack it	19:29
crashanddie	OK guys, we get it, you and the A-team are awesome. Now how about we stop talking about each and everyone's super awesome OS?	19:29
mc_teo	no	19:29
ZogG	nikki93, you can build wals or even bridge with n900s	19:29
nikki93	ZogG: zomg	19:29
ZogG	walls*	19:29
crashanddie	We know you built it yourself, you compiled your own kernel and everything, woohoo, big deal, get over it.	19:29
lcuk	crashanddie, whats your favorite OS?	19:29
nikki93	ZogG: But what about wals then? D:	19:29
DocScrutinizer	mc_teo: ubuntu ->http://xkcd.com/424/	19:30
crashanddie	lcuk: Maemo, obviously.	19:30
lcuk	+100000	19:30
lcuk	:D	19:30
ZogG	haha	19:30
nikki93	Damn I envy you guys with your n900s	19:30
lcuk	random RT @lcuk	19:30
lcuk		19:30
lcuk	@wonderhelm if you combine the 2 sports, the goalie can score points for doing somersaults whilst diving for the ball!	19:30
ZogG	crashanddie, let's talk about iphoneos	19:30
DocScrutinizer	maemo isn't an OS, maemo is a flavour of linux	19:31
crashanddie	ZogG: let's not, unless you want to be removed from the channel.	19:31
ZogG	crashanddie, why would i?	19:31
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nikki93	DocScrutinizer: Linux is a kernel	19:31
ZogG	nikki93, okay GNu/Linux	19:31
crashanddie	because an op just asked you to remain on-topic, and iphone discussions tend to lead to flame wars	19:31
DocScrutinizer	so GNU linux if you prefer	19:31
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, a yummy chocolate and banana flavour with 100s and 1000s ontop	19:31
nikki93	DocScrutinizer: Better. :P	19:31
ZogG	crashanddie, if you would follow discussions here for last weeks you would stay alone on chan	19:32
ZogG	and there is no such thing as flame wars =)	19:32
ZogG	holywars maybe =)	19:32
ZogG	anyway it's all jokes, you should relax, i know how hard is life nowdays =(	19:33
crashanddie	ZogG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_(Internet)	19:33
nikki93	So most Qt apps would work outofthebox?	19:33
crashanddie	"Flamewar redirects here"	19:33
nikki93	In Maemo?	19:33
ZogG	crashanddie so?	19:33
crashanddie	ZogG: don't correct my nerd terms.	19:33
DocScrutinizer	lol	19:33
ZogG	crashanddie there is flame and wars, you can combine these words - but doesn't sound right	19:34
ZogG	you can say maemo wars and make a wiki page =)	19:34
* DocScrutinizer envisions crashanddie and timeless sitting in pub arguing about nerd terms		19:34
jaska	ontological debate	19:34
crashanddie	ZogG: just shut the hell up, I know I am.	19:35
ZogG	crashanddie love you too	19:35
ZogG	~kiss crashanddie	19:35
* infobot forces crashanddie to give sr71 a big kiss on the lips		19:35
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: actually, we just discuss the differences between English and the bastardised version he speaks.	19:35
DocScrutinizer	rotfl	19:36
ZogG	crashanddie, i'm the internetz =)	19:36
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: the yank actually demanded that I tag my blog as "en-GB"	19:36
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie		19:36
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*** ZogG was kicked by crashanddie (and I win)		19:36
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ZogG	i heard people who have small penis can kick on chans =)))	19:36
crashanddie	indeed, we even have special meetings each year	19:37
* DocScrutinizer gasps		19:37
crashanddie	ZogG: just let it go now, please.	19:37
ZogG	can i check in?	19:37
mc_teo	ban him	19:37
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mc_teo	i dont like him	19:37
DocScrutinizer	cr-ASH	19:37
crashanddie	mc_teo: stfu, you're the troll around here, he's just being daft because he's bored.	19:37
ZogG	crashanddie, man, as i said before i'm joking. you just take it too srs and it makes fun =)	19:37
mc_teo	crashanddie: how am i troll	19:37
ZogG	mc_teo, haha	19:37
* Arkenoi -> switching my primary desktop os		19:37
crashanddie	ZogG: see reply to mc_teo	19:37
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DocScrutinizer	secondary lang nd-IE	19:37
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mc_teo	i use windows 97% of the time	19:38
BCMM	i <3 IRC	19:38
mc_teo	but i enjoy that 3% that i use ubuntu more than the rest	19:38
ZogG	crashanddie, i think i can sacrifice myself for the best of the maemo future and you can ban me ) \|i'm stopping, just really was bored =(	19:38
Arkenoi	never really used windows, tried a bit and found out that it sucks	19:39
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ZogG	mc_teo, srsly, if you like linux - go for it, what stopping you?	19:39
crashanddie	ZogG: work?	19:39
DocScrutinizer	<3 crashanddie's foul moods	19:39
Arkenoi	i had 98 on libretto in pre-netbook era as it was too weak for any other os	19:39
Xenon\|XZ	Windows sucks, but thats good because otherwise I wouldnt have a job	19:39
ZogG	crashanddie, dual boot as he has but primary is linux, vmbox or wine	19:40
mc_teo	...	19:40
* Arkenoi is switching from hp-ux to solaris actually ;-)		19:40
mc_teo	his primary os is wine?	19:40
Arkenoi	(and it is solaris/sparc)	19:40
ZogG	now gonna study at school C and don't know how can i do it with no windows at home =(	19:40
crashanddie	ZogG: nha, actually, if you work in specific corp environments, you don't even have the password to the bios, can't install to boot sector, whatev' (plus, it's not your laptop so you're not allowed to)	19:40
DocScrutinizer	ZogG: err what?	19:41
crashanddie	ZogG: I got my ass kicked for installing a newer version of Office on my laptop, imagine if I changed the OS...	19:41
ZogG	crashanddie i was talking about home desktop, as well if you work at IT where i want to work - i hope i get personal laptop or they all use linux	19:41
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DocScrutinizer	what's the problem in staying away from redmond crap for studying C ? o.O	19:41
Xenon\|XZ	@Mossy	19:42
ZogG	crashanddie where do you work - if it's not a secret?	19:42
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: visual C, obviously :)	19:42
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DocScrutinizer	c#	19:42
mc_teo	:)	19:42
DocScrutinizer	fis-minor	19:42
ShadowJK	I don't think redmond has a C99 compiler yet	19:42
crashanddie	ZogG: I don't work there anymore, but it was for a security company, mainly on-site in what basically amounts to bunkers.	19:42
ZogG	DocScrutinizerbecaue teachers would prob have everything in windows	19:42
mc_teo	ZogG: would you descibe yourself as a winfag?	19:42
ZogG	and homework would be for windows	19:42
DocScrutinizer	friggin ODD	19:42
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ZogG	mc_teo lol =) when you have nothing to say - just stfu =)	19:43
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DocScrutinizer	I'd beat them to using OS neutral formats	19:43
ZogG	crashanddie i can understand them anyway	19:43
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crashanddie	ZogG: for everything there's a usage. When you're at work, you don't need to mess with the OS, you just need to use the apps. Which is email (outlook), firefox, putty, filezilla, and putty. If you're good with documents and writing crap, you'll have to deal with Visio and Word too.	19:43
Tootoot222	liveUSB ftw?	19:44
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crashanddie	ZogG: honestly, it's too much of a bother to try and fight the system in that way. You can spend 2 years flaming everyone in the company, trying to convince the company that they could be running Linux, or you just get on with your job, and do what you're being asked. Guess which one will earn you a promotion.	19:44
ZogG	crashanddie, if you can manage to upgrade office a lot of people don't , so adminisstrators have to fix all these shit people are doing when they think they are hackers(not about you). at my work some peopl think they know computer and got all apps with viruses. i'm tierd of fighting with them	19:44
DocScrutinizer	Tootoot222: depending on company policy, the sysop may beat the shit out of you	19:45
crashanddie	The loud obnoxious ass doesn't get a promotion, he gets put in the closet where noone can hear him.	19:45
jaska	if the company forces linux devs to use windows on work machines then im in the wrong company :)	19:45
lcuk	or sent off to australia ;)	19:46
crashanddie	jaska: obviously	19:46
crashanddie	lcuk: shush	19:46
ZogG	crashanddie that's why i agree, but back to the question. if mc_teo enjoys linux and i assume he has comp at home, he can set linux there and use it not 3% but 24/7	19:46
lcuk	:P	19:46
mc_teo	i would of thought more people here would of used linux, considering maemo is	19:46
ZogG	lcuk canada =)	19:46
crashanddie	ZogG: there is already crapware for Linux, and spyware too. It's only a matter of time before corporations start using $DISTRO, and the same assholes you have to deal with will be running botnets and spyware on their Linux installs.	19:46
crashanddie	mc_teo: "would have"	19:47
satmd	examples?	19:47
ZogG	mc_teo here maybe, but most people who buy n900 don't as most people don't understadn the difference, they use what they got and don't mind to ask what is it =)	19:47
mc_teo	crashanddie: doesnt change the msg	19:47
Xenon\|XZ	i bought an N900 because I heard it ran Linux	19:47
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DocScrutinizer	jaska: well it's like if Nokia hands balckberrys to their employees	19:47
SpeedEvil	I bought a N900 because I herd it liked mudkipz.	19:48
Tootoot222	crashanddie: that's exactly why you only install programs that are maintained by your distro, and open source	19:48
Tootoot222	so you know what is a botnet and what is not	19:48
ZogG	crashanddie it's not about secure, it's about policy, though i use flash and closed drivers, i prefer free software when you have choice.	19:48
crashanddie	Tootoot222: and you think half the windows installs are infected because people downloaded shit religiously from windows.com?	19:48
crashanddie	Tootoot222: people want titties, spyware gives them titties	19:48
ZogG	SpeedEvil, i bought it because pr1.2 chuck norris thread was awesome	19:49
nikki93	O_o	19:49
Tootoot222	crashanddie: if you only downloaded from windows.com you end up with nothing	19:49
crashanddie	Tootoot222: people want happy bunnies, spyware gives them happy bunnies	19:49
lcuk	ZogG, +10	19:49
nikki93	crashanddie: Are you trolling?	19:49
lcuk	i believe he is	19:49
ZogG	lcuk, Norris or choise?	19:49
crashanddie	probably	19:49
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nikki93	Then lets ignore him and get on with life.	19:49
DocScrutinizer	(blackberry) btw I know of a company that was in building phones and didi exactly that	19:49
ZogG	nikki93, haha. welcome to the IRC	19:50
DocScrutinizer	:-P	19:50
lcuk	ZogG, with chuck norris on your side, you have all the choices you want	19:50
Tootoot222	crashanddie: even if you downloaded an infected video that uses a buffer overflow of some sort, those bugs get fixed very fast (if they're even present at all)	19:50
nikki93	ZogG: I've been here a long time, thank you. ;)	19:50
crashanddie	it just astonishes me that people think Linux will be the be-all end-all solution to spyware and botnets	19:50
nikki93	ZogG: Just learnt enough to not waste time with trolls.	19:50
ZogG	lcuk, yeah, you know if chuck has n900 and you have n900, chuck norris has better phone	19:50
lcuk	nahhh the honour virus shows that	19:50
nikki93	crashanddie: Linux is a kernel.	19:50
Xenon\|XZ	spyware will not infect a linux system unless you run everything as root	19:50
crashanddie	wth	19:51
ZogG	nikki93, you are stubborn	19:51
crashanddie	you can run things in the user environment without being root	19:51
crashanddie	that's enough for a botnet	19:51
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noidea`	._.	19:51
lcuk	Xenon\|XZ, but to install anything normally dont most distros sudo the process?	19:51
nikki93	ZogG: I just tell the truth D:	19:51
noidea`	so many people	19:51
ZogG	nikki93, the thing is that lang is changing and igff everyone name GNU/Linux is Linux it's linux	19:51
Xenon\|XZ	yes, but unless ur a troll u will be fine	19:51
ZogG	nikki93 and no crashanddie is not trolling, he is discussing with little sarcasm maybe sometimes \|truth	19:51
nikki93	ZogG: Still, I don't see how a distro could be 'the final solution'. It's all a matter of people using it you know.	19:52
crashanddie	Tootoot222: mate, have you looked at spyware or a botnet system lately? They don't require any hacks or exploits. They ask the user "Do you want to see boobies? If so, click on "Install"", and guess what, people click on "install"	19:52
nikki93	ZogG: mkay	19:52
lcuk	do .install files exist for other distros, or is it a maemoism?	19:52
* satmd confirms crashanddie		19:52
lcuk	ie browse to random website and do a one click install of random file from untrusted repo	19:52
satmd	sad but true	19:52
ZogG	nikki93, what do you mean by final solution?	19:52
nikki93	crashanddie: I've been using Linux for a while, haven't had such problems.	19:52
ZogG	lcuk, i think buntu	19:52
nikki93	ZogG: Solution to botnet and spyware in this context.	19:52
* DocScrutinizer /kicks nikki93 to ##RMS		19:52
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lcuk	nikki93, but you could use windows for same duration and not have problems	19:53
nikki93	DocScrutinizer: root mean square? D:	19:53
crashanddie	lcuk: .deb auto installs (pretty much), .bin files usually run and get user access	19:53
Arkenoi	crashanddie, well, on my previous job out it department sabotaged providing and magaging linux machine for me with any possible effort, so it ended up with them giving me passwords to access corporate resources and setting the system up by myself	19:53
nikki93	lcuk: Yup. Never said otherwise really.	19:53
Dassu	Anybody else having gprs problems with enhanced power-user linux kernel?	19:53
ZogG	nikki93, oh, as i said i discuss linux not as global solution but the choise f my use. and if person is stupid he got viruses even at calculator =)	19:53
DocScrutinizer	nikki93: well, dunno if he's mean, but for sure he's square	19:53
SwedeMike	I'm curious regarding standby time people have on their N900, so I created a survey. It's just a single question, if you feel like participating, please go to <http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=KNOJMI_c7333525>	19:53
Arkenoi	though we had rhel desktop as officially supported workstation system	19:53
* Dassu can't seem to get a connection across		19:53
crashanddie	lcuk: if you sugarcoat it enough, I'm pretty sure you could get people to chmod +x filename and sudo ./filename it anyway	19:53
lcuk	nikki93, the operator of the computer usually has their own level of concern about their system and wont do things if they smell wrong	19:53
ZogG	lcuk, nope, until you don't check pr0n sites	19:54
nikki93	I have to study for a chemistry test. D:	19:54
nikki93	cya	19:54
ZogG	bye	19:54
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Ikarus	SwedeMike: it depends and most strongly depends on having packet on/off and how bad the reception o it is :)	19:54
ZogG	crashanddie, actually it's not install files do the thing but app manager knows to run them?	19:54
SwedeMike	Ikarus: well, that's the kind of feedback I would like as well, because I've done quite a lot of testing and for me it's inconclusive.	19:54
crashanddie	ZogG: aye	19:54
Ikarus	SwedeMike: I can confirm this pretty well	19:55
ZogG	as example if i write program that would open .ebuild and emerge automagicly =)	19:55
lcuk	SwedeMike, i rarely use my devices "lightly"	19:55
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Ikarus	SwedeMike: given I do alot of train travel with good maps on HSDPA reception along the routes	19:55
SwedeMike	Ikarus: for instance, in my testing it seems that just the fact of having my headset plugged in uses a heap of juice, don't know if it's the app that detectsthat and supposed to turn off the volume when I take it out that uses the juice.	19:55
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crashanddie	ZogG: except that there are some permission foo going on, allowing the app manager to use dpkg, without root status or something. You'd need to find a workaround that	19:55
Xenon\|XZ	dyou think that ovi maps will get voice guided navigation someday?	19:55
SwedeMike	Ikarus: but yes, running 2G without packet up and running on a freshly rebooted unit makes the standby time much better.	19:56
ZogG	SwedeMike, headphone deamon on extra rep?	19:56
SwedeMike	ZogG: yes.	19:56
Ikarus	SwedeMike: also running wifi or a solid 3G packet connection works alot better	19:56
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Ikarus	wifi beating 3G	19:56
lcuk	SwedeMike, why isnt there an option for "over 9000 hours"?	19:57
mc_teo	SwedeMike: my juice is being drank	19:57
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ZogG	crashanddie you can do it, or with dirty hack or with udev rules(or what thing can give you permission) as for example it gives user permission to reboot	19:57
ZogG	SwedeMike and it doesn't work?	19:57
mc_teo	SwedeMike: since i installed pr1.2 my battery last half as long	19:57
lcuk	i can make n900 shutdown in a fraction of a second by calling xrandr something	19:58
SwedeMike	ZogG: it does work, but it seems I double the power consumption with my headset plugged in.	19:58
Ikarus	wifi with xchat (on a dozen or so channels) and jabber on lasts around 10 hours, on packet with a stable connection between 6 and 8 hours and with a dodgy 3G connection which requires alot of reconnects I can blow through it in 3 hours	19:58
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ZogG	SwedeMike hm, you mean even if you don't use them and they are in battery dies faster?	19:58
lcuk	mc_teo, thats odd, most things have better battery consumption due to numerous combinational tweaks	19:58
SwedeMike	what is the easiest way of saving screenshots, I can show you some interesting differences in batterygraph	19:58
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ZogG	lcuk [pr1.2 is a pie, i mean a lie =)	19:59
lcuk	SwedeMike, CTRL+p i think	19:59
SwedeMike	ZogG: yes, just having the plugged in.	19:59
ZogG	SwedeMike ctrl+shift+p	19:59
Ikarus	pr1.2 hasn't influenced battery life at all for me	19:59
lcuk	maybe shift too	19:59
ZogG	SwedeMike that's wierd	19:59
lcuk	lol	19:59
SpeedEvil	2G is lots better than 3G if you can use it.	19:59
Ikarus	SpeedEvil: not the case for me	19:59
Ikarus	SpeedEvil: 2G and 3G where about equal	19:59
ZogG	SpeedEvil, i go for 1G	19:59
lcuk	with people doing xchat on n900 and noticing power draining faster	19:59
SwedeMike	hm, cltr-shift-p doesn't say anything, but it saves it somewhere silently?	19:59
lcuk	perhaps its because the channels are busier	19:59
lcuk	this week maemo and meego have been buzzing	20:00
ZogG	SwedeMike, yes	20:00
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SwedeMike	actually sending packet on 3G take a lot of power.	20:00
ZogG	SwedeMike, images → screenshots	20:00
mc_teo	lcuk: ive noticed that yes	20:00
lcuk	sure SwedeMike but if the channel is busier, its doing a lot of the same	20:00
lcuk	well mc_teo both had released this week	20:00
lcuk	releases	20:00
mc_teo	lurking on #maemo drains your battery faster	20:01
Ikarus	mc_teo: heh	20:01
ZogG	haha	20:01
Ikarus	mc_teo: mine lasts 6 - 8 hours doing that	20:01
Ikarus	or 10 if I am on wifi	20:01
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lcuk	mc_teo, thats obvious, try lurking on ##c or #ubnutu or something too	20:01
mc_teo	i am always on wifi	20:01
lcuk	your battery will drain even faster	20:01
ZogG	let's make test: 2 N900 with xchat one on meego and one on maemo chans, which one die faster	20:01
mc_teo	lol	20:01
lcuk	maemo - we gossip more	20:01
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: questionable	20:02
ZogG	i think meego	20:02
lcuk	meego goes practically silent outside "office hours"	20:02
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: there's a 'saturation' level reached quite quickly	20:02
ZogG	as N900 jealous and hates meego	20:02
lcuk	apart from occasional	20:02
lcuk	* tumbleweed rolled through channel	20:02
ZogG	=)	20:02
ZogG	let's go to meego now	20:02
ZogG	and continue there	20:03
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, ?	20:03
lcuk	but if theres 10k lines being processed by xchat	20:03
lcuk	thats nothing to do with the wireless level	20:03
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DocScrutinizer	3G stays 'online' for some (10s) seconds after each packet	20:03
DocScrutinizer	so additional packets come "for free" during that period	20:03
lcuk	apart from the work done to add the data to the channel object	20:04
DocScrutinizer	bah	20:04
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SpeedEvil	Ikarus: Yeah - I should have qualified that with 'in my case'	20:05
SwedeMike	DocScrutinizer: actually there are two modes, and full idle is 30 seconds without any packets.	20:06
SpeedEvil	In my measurements, 2G - flat out - was about the same as 3G sending a packet every few seconds.	20:06
* lcuk grabs popcorn		20:06
SwedeMike	DocScrutinizer: first you have HS, which timeouts quite quickly (around a second), then you get your 64kilobit/s channel, that timeouts after 30 seconds.	20:06
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DocScrutinizer51	SwedeMike: :-)	20:07
frals	~curse MMS	20:07
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, MMS !	20:07
odin_	what was the rationale for bumping ld-linux.so.3 on Maemo5 ?	20:07
SpeedEvil	SwedeMike: What is the transition between 3 and 3.5g?	20:07
SwedeMike	hm, I really can't find my screenshots... I mounted my N900 as mass storage device from my linux, can't find anything, also looking in xterm on the n900, ... any hints?	20:07
DocScrutinizer51	says the author of fmms	20:07
SpeedEvil	SwedeMike: Or is 3.5G - HS cnannel active?	20:08
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SwedeMike	SpeedEvil: 3.5G is HS resource allocated, yes.	20:08
frals	DocScrutinizer: not my fault operators are stupid when implementing it :(	20:08
SwedeMike	SpeedEvil: it can take 1-2 seconds to get that up and running.	20:08
SpeedEvil	SwedeMike: Hmm - I need to check 60s pings and 90s I guess too.	20:08
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption - as well as make that page better.	20:09
mc_teo	does ovi chat account thingy use your ovi.com account?	20:09
SpeedEvil	SwedeMike: Thanks.	20:09
DocScrutinizer51	SwedeMike: check for hidden folders	20:09
SwedeMike	I work for a mobile phone operator, did some tests regarding that... you can try it yourself by checking the time it takes to get packets in/out after those intervals, it takes the longest after 30s of idle (it's settable by the mobile operator though, but I think 30s is default)	20:10
SpeedEvil	SwedeMike: Hmm - yeah - that's an easy thing to test.	20:10
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SwedeMike	ah, .images of course	20:10
* SpeedEvil needs to setup a reverse SSH tunnel.		20:10
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DocScrutinizer51	SwedeMike: you know about 3G-2G handover?	20:11
SwedeMike	DocScrutinizer51: a little.	20:11
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mc_teo	SpeedEvil: what do mean reverse?	20:11
PhonicUK	hey all	20:11
SpeedEvil	SwedeMike: Does the 3G network inform the 2G side of the available 2G towers?	20:11
mc_teo	wouldnt it just be the same?	20:11
mc_teo	just in the opposite direction	20:12
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: No - you can't typically take inbound connections on mobile internet	20:12
PhonicUK	anyone know if there is a PSX emu for the N900 with decent performance?	20:12
Macer	heh	20:12
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: So you need a ssh session tunneled by the phone to a server which lets you push in that direction	20:12
Macer	wtf is ovi? only time i even thought about ovi was when i tried the crappy maps	20:12
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: you need to swap ome 2 with e in there	20:12
mc_teo	well maybe not where your from	20:12
ali1234	PhonicUK: noooooo	20:12
mc_teo	but im using mobile broadband all the time	20:13
ali1234	PhonicUK: you won't be playing any games full speed, unless they are really simple	20:13
mc_teo	i have a usb mobile modem, plugged in to my router	20:13
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: you can connect from outside to your phones IP?	20:13
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: you need to swap one 2 with 3 in there	20:13
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: I don't think so.	20:13
PhonicUK	I know, its a shame because there is a PSX emu for the Pandora (same CPU, etc) which gets full speed emulation	20:13
mc_teo	SpeedEvil: i use hspda or w/e as my fixed line broadband	20:13
arachnist	~curse flash	20:14
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, flash !	20:14
ali1234	PhonicUK: you can get to about 80-90% of real PSX speed if you disable compositing and pulseaudio	20:14
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: I was meaning - does the 2G modem need to search for them - or is itnformed if it has an active 3G connection	20:14
PhonicUK	i know :P	20:14
ali1234	PhonicUK: pandora uses neither of those (actually it uses raw framebuffer, even faster)	20:14
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: But does it accept inbound connections.	20:14
mc_teo	yes	20:14
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DocScrutinizer	<SpeedEvil> SwedeMike: Does the 3G network inform the 2G side of the available THREE- G towers?	20:14
mc_teo	i used to run a webserver	20:14
PhonicUK	it doesn't use the framebuffer anymore actually :P	20:14
SwedeMike	SpeedEvil: yes, both 2G and 3G network advertises "neighbours" that should be considered for handover.	20:14
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: Many don't.	20:14
ali1234	but even then it can't do full speed in all games	20:14
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PhonicUK	they got decent speed under X	20:14
SpeedEvil	ah	20:14
ali1234	psx4all does on pandora port	20:14
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: Which is a good thing for moile battery case.	20:15
mc_teo	SpeedEvil: and i use for ssh tunnelling when im in school	20:15
SwedeMike	oki, so some of my batterygraph screenshots are available at http://swm.pp.se/n900/ , this one is very agressive for instance: http://swm.pp.se/n900/Screenshot-20100529-190133.png	20:15
PhonicUK	I don't think psx4all for maemo has been kept up to date with the other versions though	20:15
MohammadAG	<ali1234> psx4all does on pandora port	20:15
MohammadAG	it has a GPU plugin	20:15
mc_teo	SpeedEvil: but its not really a mobile	20:15
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: even more interesting: Does the 2G network inform the 3G side of the available 2G towers?	20:15
MohammadAG	there's a huge thread about it on tmo	20:15
ali1234	psx4all for maemo is up to date with psx4all public source release	20:15
ali1234	no idea what the original developer is cooking up internally	20:15
MohammadAG	ali1234, the pandora plugin isn't open source - yet	20:15
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PhonicUK	ah	20:16
MohammadAG	GPU plugin	20:16
ali1234	MohammadAG: you mean the "new" pandora plugin	20:16
PhonicUK	maybe we'll get something better eventually	20:16
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PhonicUK	maybe we'll get Ari64 :)	20:16
ali1234	because there is one in the public source, but it uses FB	20:16
mc_teo	i can not recieve dsl or adsl or anything through land line	20:16
mc_teo	so i have a Three data modem	20:16
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: SwedeMike: and are here clearly specified criteria when to "roam" 2G<->3G?	20:16
ali1234	anyway i dont think the cpu is fast enough personally, despite what pandora appears to do	20:17
mc_teo	uses hspda, with edge, and gprs as fallbacks	20:17
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: I know.	20:17
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: I'm just saying that having an open connection onto the internet for most phones is bad.	20:17
mc_teo	i get upto 7.4Mb/s	20:17
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: SwedeMike: are carriers usually setting up their services to handover the DHCP lease?	20:17
SpeedEvil	mc_teo: As it will keep the modem much of the time active recieving probes from botnets	20:18
PhonicUK	ali1234, if the pandora can do it, theres no reason for the N900 not to	20:18
SwedeMike	DocScrutinizer: I'm sure a mobile phone engineer would call it clear, I don't understand it well enough to do it :)	20:18
PhonicUK	exactly the same SoC	20:18
SwedeMike	DocScrutinizer: normally you move the IP, yes. Usually DHCP isn't used, it's PPP.	20:18
Stskeeps	if people used iphb we'd probably be having more 3g efficient applications	20:18
ali1234	PhonicUK: i don't believe the pandora can do it well enough to be worth it	20:18
DocScrutinizer	aaah yes	20:18
SwedeMike	DocScrutinizer: it's called a GTP carrier, and it's media independant.	20:19
PhonicUK	the pandora gets full speed :\	20:19
PhonicUK	even at 500MHz instead of 600MHz	20:19
ali1234	also, i don't believe the SoC can do it and still be in a mode where you can receive incoming calls	20:19
SwedeMike	DocScrutinizer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPRS_Tunnelling_Protocol	20:19
DocScrutinizer	SwedeMike: thanks a lot :-)	20:19
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53087 (cc ali1234)	20:19
MohammadAG	it's not about the CPU	20:19
SpeedEvil	ali1234: The CPU and the modem are completely independant	20:19
MohammadAG	the pandora uses the DSP/GPU	20:19
SpeedEvil	ali1234: I have woken the n900 from suspend-RAM with calls	20:19
ali1234	SpeedEvil: oh really? so i can make a phone call while pulseaudio is not running?	20:19
ali1234	SpeedEvil: and answer a call while hildon-desktop is not running?	20:20
SpeedEvil	ali1234: That's not quite what I said.	20:20
ali1234	i think not	20:20
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SpeedEvil	ali1234: Since when was hildon-desktop and pulseaudio part of the SoC?	20:20
ali1234	i don't believe that N900 can run a PSX emulator full speed while compositing and pulse are running	20:20
ali1234	so i choose between being able to receive calls, and playing a PSX emulator	20:20
MohammadAG	What you believe =! What will happen	20:21
ali1234	that's no choice at all	20:21
Stskeeps	or pause the psx emu while calling? ..	20:21
Stskeeps	:P	20:21
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MohammadAG	lol	20:21
ali1234	Stskeeps: you mean: pause the psx-emulator, restart hildon, restart pulse... 30 seconds later, the person ringing you has hung up, and the "answer" button has only just finished repainting	20:21
MohammadAG	But.. why?	20:21
MohammadAG	hildon shouldn't interfere with an emulator	20:22
MohammadAG	or pulseaudio	20:22
ali1234	shouldn't	20:22
ali1234	but they do	20:22
MohammadAG	won't*	20:22
MohammadAG	how'd you check/prove that	20:22
ali1234	try running any emulator with them enabled. pulse will use 25% CPU, hildon will use 25% CPU	20:22
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MohammadAG	and the DSP will be @ 0 load	20:22
ali1234	emulators by nature update the whole screen at a high rate, and send lots of small audio packets	20:23
MohammadAG	(well not 0, but you get the point)	20:23
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ali1234	both worst case for compositing/sound server	20:23
DocScrutinizer	ali1234: 25% of which cpuclock freq?	20:23
ali1234	DocScrutinizeri assume max since it was 25% -> pulse, 25% -> hildon, 50% -> psx4all	20:23
DocScrutinizer	ali1234: not arguing in favour of PA - I hate it. But those figures are quite meaningless	20:23
ali1234	i rather like PA on desktop	20:24
MohammadAG	pulseaudio isn't tied to hildon-desktop	20:24
ali1234	i never said it was	20:24
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DocScrutinizer	anyway, got to go - there's RL needs to obey. cya #maemo	20:24
ali1234	i said you need both pulse and hildon running if you want to be able to answer an incoming call before the person hangs up	20:24
Dassu	Fuck yeah	20:25
Dassu	fixed my gprs0 not working problemo	20:25
Dassu	now back to the serious business: Getting mobilehotspot to work while breaking gprs again	20:25
SpeedEvil	ali1234: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43605 - claims that since 1.1 - any fullscreen app bypasses the compositor	20:27
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johnsq	Hi	20:27
ali1234	it's been possible to "bypass the compositor" by setting WM hints since forever, but it doesn't actually improve the speed in any way	20:27
MohammadAG	<ali1234> i said you need both pulse and hildon running if you want to be able to answer an incoming call before the person hangs up	20:27
MohammadAG	not quite	20:27
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MohammadAG	just tested it	20:27
ali1234	the only way to get an actual speedup is to killall hildon-desktop	20:27
MohammadAG	hildon desktop is not needed to answer a call	20:27
MohammadAG	or reject it	20:28
ali1234	how do you press the answer button with no wm running?	20:28
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MohammadAG	you look at the device and click answer	20:28
ali1234	buttons dont respond to input if no wm in running	20:28
SwedeMike	Android has this nice program that'll estimate every application power consumption, wish there was a similar one for the N900.	20:28
MohammadAG	they do	20:28
ali1234	they didn't on the old firmware	20:28
MohammadAG	they did	20:28
MohammadAG	don't spread BS facts	20:28
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ali1234	some buttons work, many dialogs do not	20:30
MohammadAG	all call buttons work	20:30
Proteous	terminal history works for user and not just root now. I am so happy	20:30
MohammadAG	killing HD or PA would not necessary if PSX4ALL had the GPU plugin	20:31
ali1234	dont forget that without PA you cannot mix the sound from that incoming call even if you can answer it	20:32
ali1234	GPU plugin is not going to help you with that	20:32
MohammadAG	Well duh	20:32
MohammadAG	it is	20:32
ali1234	you either use PA, or the emulator locks the sound device and no other app can make sound until you quit	20:33
MohammadAG	I don't think I need the person calling me to hear my PSX games, when a call comes the phone apps gets priority	20:34
ponyofdeath	hi, anyone else having issues with the orientation of the phone screen? seems its mostly in landscape	20:34
SpeedEvil	ali1234: Also - I notice that media player playing fullscreen turns compositor off totally - no CPU usage	20:34
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SpeedEvil	ali1234: mplayer - fullscreen - CPU usage of hildon desktop is in the 3% range.	20:34
ali1234	anyway i'm not going to argue about this any more, if you think i am wrong, then prove it. make an emulator that runs full speed	20:34
MohammadAG	Wait for ZodTTD...	20:35
ali1234	even the snes emulator cannot manage 50fps last time i tried it	20:35
MohammadAG	I don't see why the pandora can do it	20:35
ali1234	(unless you kill hildon and pulse)	20:35
MohammadAG	the picodrive emu runs at 60fps locked	20:35
MohammadAG	with no frame drops	20:35
ali1234	the pandora can do it because 1. it does not use hildon, 2. it does not use pulse	20:35
* pupnik_ laughs		20:35
ali1234	and 3. because zod wrote some better plugins for the hw	20:35
pupnik_	ty ali1234	20:35
MohammadAG	1. hildon is switched off in fullscreen mode 2. uh...	20:36
SpeedEvil	Oops - my bad.	20:36
MohammadAG	3. which is what we're waiting for...	20:36
ali1234	see the thing is that 1. gives a 25% speed increase, 2. gives 25%, and 3. gives about 5%	20:36
ali1234	without 1 and 2, 3 won't make much difference, you'll still be stuck at about 70% full speed	20:37
SpeedEvil	ali1234: Hildon desktop - with mplayer fullscreen - and xterm in the background not scrolling furiously - uses 0.2% of CPU	20:37
MohammadAG	how did you actually check with 3	20:37
ali1234	but what do i know. prove me wrong, i would love to have a good emulator	20:37
SpeedEvil	ali1234: So I'm pretty sure your point about hildon desktop is bogus.	20:37
TomaszD	zaheerm, ping	20:37
MohammadAG	and about the plugin part	20:37
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SpeedEvil	It may not have been bogus in the past - but now.	20:37
zaheerm	TomaszD, pong	20:37
ali1234	SpeedEvil: mplayer just is not a good test because it can buffer the audio/video streams	20:38
ali1234	SpeedEvil: a good test is an emulator of some ooooooold machine running fullscreen	20:39
SpeedEvil	ali1234: I don't care.	20:39
SpeedEvil	ali1234: I am looking at top	20:39
ali1234	an emulator that by rights really should run at fullspeed with ease	20:39
SpeedEvil	ali1234: hildon-desktop is using ~0.2% CPU with mplayer fullscreen	20:39
MohammadAG	<ali1234> SpeedEvil: mplayer just is not a good test because it can buffer the audio/video streams	20:39
ali1234	and that proves what?	20:40
MohammadAG	it's not "good" because it loads the CPU	20:40
MohammadAG	it proves you wrong :)	20:40
ali1234	mplayer loads the CPU not the graphics hardware	20:40
SpeedEvil	ali1234: you were earlier claiming that hildon-desktop was eating lots of CPU.	20:40
ali1234	yes	20:40
SpeedEvil	ali1234: Due to compositing windows that were high-motion.	20:40
ali1234	because it is compositing, and the graphics hardware is not fast enough	20:40
SpeedEvil	You don't get much more high-motion than the video I was using to benchmark with -benchmark	20:40
ali1234	the bottleneck is not CPU	20:41
GAN900	trooooooolllllll	20:41
MohammadAG	<ali1234> mplayer loads the CPU not the graphics hardware <-- so does PSX4ALL	20:41
ali1234	you do if that video is only 25fps	20:41
ali1234	what frame rate is your video? hmm?	20:41
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SpeedEvil	ali1234: 84.	20:41
SpeedEvil	ali1234: -benchmark	20:41
ali1234	MohammadAG: no, psx4all loads the graphics hardware	20:41
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ali1234	because it uses it in an extremely inefficient way	20:42
MohammadAG	ali1234, last I checked it only used the CPU	20:42
MohammadAG	which is why they need the GPU plugin	20:42
ali1234	oh? you didn't notice it drawing things on the screen?	20:42
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MohammadAG	...	20:42
ali1234	how do you think that stuff gets there?	20:42
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MohammadAG	It doesn't use it to emulate the PSX games	20:43
MohammadAG	anyways, this discussion is boring since it was based on wrong facts to begin with	20:43
MohammadAG	you were proven wrong twice - which says quite a lot	20:43
SpeedEvil	ali1234:	20:44
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ali1234	i must have missed the point where you produced a psx emulator that runs at full speed on n900 - twice	20:44
SpeedEvil	Hildon-desktop is using no CPU in the case of fullscreen high-motion video. Are you claiming it's using some other resource?	20:44
SpeedEvil	(with mplayer)	20:44
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GAN900	T R O L L	20:45
MohammadAG	Indeed	20:45
mc_teo	how do i use ovi chat?	20:45
MohammadAG	Add an account in settings and use the Contacts app	20:46
Proteous	you have to have collected at least 2 magical unicorns first	20:46
mc_teo	ah	20:46
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ali1234	SpeedEvil: what mplayer version are you using?	20:49
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ali1234	because when i use mplayer -benchmark Nokia_N900.avi i see mplayer 50% CPU, Xorg 32% CPU, and pulseaudio 20% CPU	20:50
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SpeedEvil	ali1234: and where is hildon-desktop in that list?	20:51
ali1234	SpeedEvil: xorg cpu usage drops down to ~2% if you stop hildondesktop	20:51
ali1234	the overhead of compositing shows under xorg cpu usage	20:51
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MohammadAG	ali1234, which version of mplayer are YOU using	20:54
ali1234	i'm using the one from extras (command line)	20:54
SpeedEvil	ali1234: mplayer -fs/	20:54
SpeedEvil	?	20:54
pupnik_	45, 31, 9	20:54
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MohammadAG	864 720 root S < 13060 5.3 17.2 /usr/bin/Xorg -logfile /tmp/Xorg.0.log <-- hildon-desktop off	20:56
MohammadAG	so again, wrong	20:56
ali1234	-benchmark does not affect the framerate, i stil have idle time in both cases	20:56
ali1234	so, neither the CPU nor the graphics are loaded by this test	20:57
pupnik_	wonder why your PA is twice as high as mine running that mplayer -benchmark	20:57
MohammadAG	864 720 root S < 16472 6.6 17.1 /usr/bin/Xorg -logfile /tmp/Xorg.0.log <-- hildon-desktop running	20:57
SpeedEvil	Ok - hildon-desktop dead.	20:57
MohammadAG	assuming I'm not an idiot, 17.1 < 17.2	20:57
SpeedEvil	X is still using the same amount of CPU in either case.	20:58
ali1234	ah -nosound too	20:58
MohammadAG	third time proven wrong	20:58
TomaszD	holy crap, the next iphone is going to have a 960x640 screen	20:58
MohammadAG	what does nosound have to do with X!	20:58
SpeedEvil	nohup mplayer -nosound -benchmark -fs	20:58
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SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: it means that it goes as fast as it can decode frames	20:58
odin_	killing its control process did it, bash is already working again :) it may have hung because I did a restore and forcaweather config files already exit (well that what I am telling myself)	20:59
MohammadAG	actually	20:59
MohammadAG	umm	20:59
MohammadAG	same load with hildon-desktop dead	20:59
SpeedEvil	/etc/rc0.d/K20hildon-desktop stop	21:00
SpeedEvil	to stop it safely	21:00
MohammadAG	I just used dsmetool	21:00
SpeedEvil	without the dog barking	21:00
SpeedEvil	or that	21:00
MohammadAG	My dog's dead	21:00
MohammadAG	I killed it last week	21:00
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ali1234	results: http://pastebin.com/5EsnxGxa	21:01
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MohammadAG	ali1234, how did you stop hd?	21:02
SpeedEvil	That's not exactly a very huge result.	21:02
ali1234	/etc/init.d/hildon-desktop stop	21:02
ali1234	SpeedEvil: yes it is smaller than on previous firmwares	21:02
MohammadAG	ali1234, and you restarted mplayer after that?	21:02
ali1234	SpeedEvil: and when running windowed the difference is much bigger	21:02
ali1234	MohammadAG: yes	21:03
MohammadAG	ali1234, well, those figures look BS, mplayer has the same PID for both jobs	21:03
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MohammadAG	PPIDs*	21:03
ali1234	no it doesn't	21:03
ali1234	1805 vs 1819	21:03
MohammadAG	PPIDs...	21:03
ali1234	um so what?	21:04
ali1234	i ran it from the same shell each time	21:04
SpeedEvil	Also - how are you getting those numbers	21:04
ali1234	from top	21:04
SpeedEvil	they bounce around considerably	21:04
SpeedEvil	you have to average - you can't do it like that	21:04
ali1234	this is true	21:04
ali1234	ok, so what should i do? just time it maybe?	21:05
MohammadAG	I take the mean of ten values	21:05
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ali1234	this is with and without benchmark output from mplayer: http://pastebin.com/Pfrfdtth	21:06
ali1234	first is with, second is without	21:06
pupnik_	ty	21:06
ali1234	i don't know what it means but it looks like it was almost exactly the same	21:06
MohammadAG	about 21 with hildon-desktop running	21:06
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ali1234	this should give a speed boost then	21:07
ali1234	but bare in mind that you're still give ~20% CPU to Xorg even with hildon disabled	21:08
SpeedEvil	15.87s without hildon-desktop to 18.0 without isn't exactly a huge boost	21:08
SpeedEvil	It's not useless, no.	21:08
ali1234	where'd you get those nmbers from?	21:08
ali1234	OK, so whatever they didto fullscreen rendering, it is certainly an improvement over the previous firmware	21:09
SpeedEvil	time mplayer -quiet -nosound -benchmark Babylon\ 5\ -\ 1x06\ Mind\ War	21:09
pupnik_	it is ali1234	21:09
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MohammadAG	I would flash to PR1.1.1 to show that it's actually similar, but it's not worth the argument since I know it's true	21:10
MohammadAG	haven't checked PR1.1, but this states it's been there since then <SpeedEvil> ali1234: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43605 - claims that since 1.1 - any fullscreen app bypasses the compositor	21:10
SpeedEvil	Actually - I ran it when hildon was booting	21:10
SpeedEvil	When it's warm - it's 16.1s with hildon, 15.8 without	21:10
ali1234	now let's do a real test	21:11
pupnik_	an emu?	21:12
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SpeedEvil	Ok - I repeated the test, with an emu (and Rod Hull) - and the results are the same.	21:13
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TomaszD	frals, how are you handling contributing translations to fmms?	21:15
TomaszD	transifex?	21:15
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TomaszD	I can't find your project	21:15
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ali1234	got to enable extras-*	21:17
SpeedEvil	hmm -vo fbdev is a bit faster than going through X.	21:17
SpeedEvil	It does have issues though.	21:17
* SpeedEvil reboots.		21:17
frals	not at all yet, still not figured out how to dit 'right' yet	21:17
ali1234	yeah like the X display flickering through at 50hz	21:17
pupnik	what is the screen refresh rate really?	21:18
mintux1	is it possible to access to yahoo rooms in coneresation or anywhere ?	21:18
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frals	TomaszD: the strings used so far all are shipped with the device, but ill try to get some system up for the remaining strings (ie error messages)	21:18
TomaszD	all shipped? nice	21:18
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TomaszD	frals, but packaging translation is also needed (debian/control)	21:19
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frals	yeah	21:19
frals	ill have a look at how others do it unless you have any idea	21:19
frals	either way i have to run now, bbl o/	21:19
* MohammadAG wishes for a trout message in MMS		21:20
* b-man updates his on-device sdk and gets swamped in packages - didn't upgrade in 3 months lol		21:20
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MohammadAG	b-man, bootstrap didn't work :)	21:20
trumee	double tapping telephone button on BT headset doesnt redial the sip number. anybody aware of the bug report for this?	21:20
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MohammadAG	b-man, I also find ssh + scratchbox + scp to transfer builds quite faster :)	21:20
trumee	it only dials the last mobile number.	21:21
b-man	MohammadAG: i'm guessing you tried building lucid? lol	21:21
mintux1	how to select text from pdf? swipe is enable for pdf reader too?	21:21
* frals chucks a whale at MohammadAG		21:21
MohammadAG	b-man, yeah lol	21:21
b-man	lucid fails to bootstrap	21:21
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trumee	i will file a bug if no bug report exists.	21:21
b-man	try karmic ;)	21:21
* MohammadAG throws a white whale at frals		21:21
MohammadAG	b-man, does it matter?	21:21
b-man	yes	21:22
trumee	anybody using BT headset?	21:22
b-man	very much so xD	21:22
johnx	hey b-man :D	21:22
LiraNuna	http://www.brighthand.com/assets/13229.jpg	21:22
LiraNuna	hahaha	21:22
LiraNuna	that keyboard looks almost like the N900's	21:23
b-man	MohammadAG: they did some funky things to their arm distro that causes it to fail on the N900	21:23
b-man	with lucid	21:23
MohammadAG	b-man, actually it doesn't chroot lol	21:23
b-man	i know lol	21:23
LiraNuna	b-man, lucid doesn't run on N900?	21:23
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ali1234	copying playstation iso...	21:23
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SwedeMike	still no pipe-character :P	21:24
b-man	LiraNuna: it really should - it's built for OMAP3 - but they did something to vfp	21:24
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johnx	shift+<space> is pretty good for pipe	21:24
johnx	usually it's available and doesn't conflict	21:24
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b-man	which causes some stuff to crash randomly	21:25
b-man	(hence the chroot issue)	21:25
GAN900	LiraNuna, yeah, that was my thought when I saw it.	21:25
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SwedeMike	I'd rather have the \| etc than $£EUR	21:25
LiraNuna	^	21:26
b-man	it works fine on BeagleBoard and Pandora	21:26
johnx	are you kidding? how would I type variables in sh without a $?	21:26
MohammadAG	HTML5 claims I moved http://i50.tinypic.com/hvvyna.jpg	21:26
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b-man	i think it's because they use OMAP3530, not OMAP3430 - which has some differences with vfp	21:27
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SwedeMike	johnx: I don't really do shell scripting on my N900, so I'm fine without it... but £EUR could go away anyway.	21:28
trumee	crap it is a WONTFiX, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8299	21:28
povbot`	Bug 8299: Can't control the VoIP call (skype, sip) from bluetooth accessory (heatdest, etc.)	21:28
johnx	agreed	21:28
b-man	johnx: still planning on getting a pandora? :)	21:28
johnx	I'm happy to type EUR or UKP or whatever	21:28
johnx	b-man, mine shipped :>	21:29
b-man	:D	21:29
b-man	sweet!!!	21:29
luke-jr	b-man: N900 is more than OMAP3	21:29
DocScrutinizer	SwedeMike: ack. but what about just remapping keys?	21:29
b-man	luke-jr: yeah	21:29
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johnx	mine shipped before pandorapress.net had the news item they were starting to ship :D might have something to do with ordering as soon as I heard the word on IRC and not waiting for the emailed announcement :>	21:29
MohammadAG	b-man, W: Failure trying to run: chroot /media/mmc1/ubuntu-chroot/. mount -t proc proc /proc	21:30
trumee	is it possible to open microb pages in the background?	21:30
b-man	MohammadAG: karmic?	21:30
SwedeMike	DocScrutinizer: sure, it's not a huge problem, I'm just questioning why a nerd phone like this would have EUR£ on the physical keyboard, but not \|	21:31
* b-man is a bit jelous of johnx		21:31
MohammadAG	b-man, no, lucid, but I missed your earlier message xD	21:31
b-man	LOL k	21:31
b-man	I'll probably get a 2nd batch pandora ;)	21:32
johnx	b-man, heh. only had to wait a couple years :) I forgot, did you order in the first batch?	21:32
johnx	ah	21:32
b-man	johnx: i was, but then the N900 came xD	21:32
ali1234	yep, psx4all now runs faster in fullscreen too	21:32
ali1234	it's still nowhere near full speed though	21:33
johnx	aaah. the N900 is awesome, but I'm really looking forward to absolutely hacking up my pandora without worrying about missing calls	21:33
trumee	not possible?	21:33
johnx	trumee, I don't know of a way	21:33
johnx	but that doesn't really mean much :)	21:34
Stskeeps	johnx: so, meego or mer on the pandora? ;p	21:34
johnx	debian and windowmaker	21:34
johnx	(at least half serious there)	21:34
Stskeeps	hehe	21:34
b-man	johnx: the best part about the pandora is about it being 100% open - no legal issues with firmware/drivers :)	21:34
ali1234	pulse cpu usage is down too	21:35
johnx	and that it should have a more "normal" init sequence	21:35
ali1234	only hovering around 10%	21:35
Stskeeps	b-man: except that's bullshit when it comes to 3d drivers..	21:35
johnx	and that it's not my phone :)	21:35
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b-man	johnx: and that it uses u-boot xDD	21:35
b-man	Stskeeps: very true	21:35
ali1234	i'm getting 80/10/10 for psx/xorg/pulse	21:35
ali1234	that's a huge improvement	21:36
b-man	Stskeeps: but i don't thing you can get arount that 100% unless imagination technologys thinks otherwise	21:36
johnx	heh. even my desktop uses closed source video drives (nvidia)	21:36
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b-man	*think	21:38
b-man	lol, damn kb xDD	21:38
johnx	video drives? WTH is that? some kind of holographic storage?	21:38
MohammadAG	<johnx> heh. even my desktop uses closed source video drives (nvidia)	21:40
MohammadAG	my desktop doesn't use drivers xD	21:40
MohammadAG	(uninstalled nouveau)	21:40
* johnx tries to think about how that would work		21:40
b-man	lol	21:41
johnx	sooo, you sit there and flip little switches to deliver perfectly timed electrical pulses to the video chip?	21:41
johnx	I think even in that case it would (de facto) make you the driver	21:41
b-man	at the speed of light? :)	21:41
MohammadAG	haha	21:42
LiraNuna	<MohammadAG> my desktop doesn't use drivers xD	21:42
LiraNuna	YAY FRAMEBUFFER	21:42
LiraNuna	^ hardcore	21:42
pupnik	ali1234: looking better here too	21:42
b-man	xDDDDD	21:42
MohammadAG	<LiraNuna> YAY FRAMEBUFFER <-- indeed	21:42
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MohammadAG	the main reason is because the card is f'd	21:42
LiraNuna	ah	21:42
MohammadAG	it said something like GPU lockup, switching to FBcon	21:42
johnx	fill in the blanks: to display pictures on the framebuffer x.org uses the fbdev ______ :)	21:42
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ali1234	how do i see the current CPU clock frwquency?	21:43
b-man	well, even framebuffer console needs a driver (fbcon)	21:43
LiraNuna	VESA - Because letting the CPU work extra is a good thing	21:43
MohammadAG	that isn't for the GPU is it	21:43
ali1234	im sure this should be running faster than it is when using 80% CPU	21:44
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pupnik	/proc/cpuinfo indicates it sorrta	21:44
pupnik	249 bogomips at 250mhz afaik	21:45
ali1234	598.90	21:45
ali1234	i guess thats full speed	21:45
MohammadAG	well.. ctrl C doesn't work for CHKDSK	21:46
ali1234	hmm i see a problem.. the settings gui of psx4all doesn't actually affect anything	21:46
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Wizzup	since 1.2 is lost the search ability in the package manager	21:50
Wizzup	I lost*	21:50
nidO	select a catalogue	21:51
nidO	start typing	21:51
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nikki93	Hello	21:52
Wizzup	ty	21:52
MohammadAG	b-man, W: Failure trying to run: chroot /home/mohammad/chroot/. mount -t proc proc /proc	21:53
MohammadAG	lol	21:53
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Xenon\|XZ	shunt it be mount -t proc none /proc ?	21:56
luke-jr	nah	21:56
luke-jr	'none' is lame	21:56
ali1234	ok, so i confirm that hildon no longer eats CPU when doing fast graphics. it seems faster even in windowed mode/compositing enabled	21:56
luke-jr	cd /;mount proc{,,}	21:57
luke-jr	ftw	21:57
Xenon\|XZ	none is lame? - fair enough :(	21:57
luke-jr	err	21:57
luke-jr	mount -t {,,/}proc	21:57
luke-jr	:D	21:57
odin_	so then, who is voting for what country tonight, in the euro-vision ? who do you represent ?	21:57
Xenon\|XZ	UK	21:57
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odin_	me UK as well	21:58
Dassu	anobody here using mobilehotspot?	21:58
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ali1234	it's still not enough to get psx emulator even close to playable though	21:58
luke-jr	odin_: wtf?	21:58
odin_	look like the UK is gonna win then !	22:00
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Xenon\|XZ	if they win i will eat my own sh*t	22:01
Xenon\|XZ	:)	22:01
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n900-dk	Denmark should win :)	22:01
crashanddie	don't tell me you're watching eurovision	22:03
crashanddie	I want to watch the bloody roland garros	22:03
* ShadowJK us watching the ota upgrade's progress bar on n900...		22:03
crashanddie	scratch that, I'm watching that	22:04
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* crashanddie love VLC		22:04
MohammadAG	Nokia-N900:~# uptime	22:05
MohammadAG	22:04:49 up 12:05, load average: 10.36, 7.62, 5.22	22:05
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budfive	MohammadAG: whoa!	22:06
budfive	MohammadAG: what have you been doing?	22:06
MohammadAG	debootstrap's unpacking packages lol	22:06
Stskeeps	ah, silly people	22:07
Stskeeps	didn't you learn to do it cross yet? :P	22:07
GAN900	crashanddie, sucker.	22:07
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, scratchbox is borked by design to be able to chroot :)	22:07
crashanddie	GAN900: why?	22:07
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ShadowJK	22:07:13 up 41 days, 22:31, load average: 1.86, 0.70, 0.30	22:07
GAN900	crashanddie, because	22:07
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ShadowJK	my N810	22:08
crashanddie	GAN900: that's not enough of a reason	22:08
GAN900	crashanddie, my buddy bought a Panasonic GH1	22:08
GAN900	Insanity	22:08
GAN900	The HD video looks like film.	22:08
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MohammadAG	Stskeeps,	22:08
MohammadAG	[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/chroot] > chroot ./	22:08
MohammadAG	[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/chroot] > fakeroot chroot ./	22:08
MohammadAG	[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/chroot] > sudo chroot ./	22:08
MohammadAG	sudo: must be setuid root	22:08
MohammadAG	uhh	22:08
MohammadAG	/scratchbox/tools/bin/chroot.bin: cannot change root directory to ./: Operation not permitted <-- for the first two	22:08
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Stskeeps	MohammadAG: no, not that	22:08
Stskeeps	:P	22:08
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, then what? :)	22:09
Stskeeps	MohammadAG: ask me between 7.30 and 13.30 polish time monday-friday :P	22:09
Stskeeps	;)	22:09
* Stskeeps goes back to hacking on his joggler		22:09
wazd	meh, 960 x 640 3.5" is an absolute overkill	22:09
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, screw you :)	22:10
crashanddie	GAN900: yeah, GH1 and LX3 are seriously good cameras	22:10
Stskeeps	MohammadAG: run it in a qemu instance	22:10
crashanddie	GAN900: I have a TC-80N3 remote control now for the 40D	22:10
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, bah, I hate that crap :P	22:10
LiraNuna	why do I need both maemo.org account AND forum account?	22:11
Stskeeps	cos someone has taken ass long time to get SSO working	22:11
ali1234	you don't need a forum account	22:12
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LiraNuna	ali1234, yes I do, it asked me to register and told me my garage username/pass is invalid	22:13
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Stskeeps	MohammadAG: that, or look into how rootstock works	22:14
crashanddie	LiraNuna: no, he meant you don't need to be on the forum	22:14
LiraNuna	why?	22:14
LiraNuna	I just wanted to thank someone	22:14
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crashanddie	see, you "want", not "need"	22:14
LiraNuna	oh, so we're getting that picky are we	22:15
ali1234	i think they should allow anonymous thanks	22:15
crashanddie	ali1234: queue every post with 2000000000+ thanks in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1	22:15
lcuk	i think anonymous posting should be acceptable too	22:15
ali1234	so?	22:15
johnx	crashanddie, worried about inflation in the thanks-oconomy	22:16
johnx	?	22:16
lcuk	but the moderation and thread viewing tools arent upto sniff	22:16
ali1234	i wouldn;t go as far as anon posting	22:16
lcuk	snuff even	22:16
MohammadAG	lcuk, actually they can be done, but the mods would have to start approving a lot of threads	22:16
ali1234	but the whole point of thanks button is so people don't have to reply with a one word post	22:16
crashanddie	LMAO, someone just got on stage at Eurovision, and security took him down	22:16
lcuk	MohammadAG, sure, hence my comment	22:17
jaska	crashanddie: considering how bad most of the participants that should happen more often, being taken out by security :)	22:17
MohammadAG	lcuk, just restating what was said ~ Captain Obvious	22:17
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crashanddie	jaska: haha	22:18
SpeedEvil	What's omap-previewer?	22:18
ShadowJK	uh...	22:18
ShadowJK	did OTA upgrade throw themes on emmc	22:19
lcuk	yes	22:19
ShadowJK	because the sim prompt is themeless and fontless..	22:19
SpeedEvil	a	22:19
lcuk	sim?	22:19
ShadowJK	pin code	22:19
LiraNuna	some themes are broken	22:20
LiraNuna	like Carbon	22:20
LiraNuna	there's a lot of junk on some parts of it	22:20
ShadowJK	I had digital nature	22:20
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crashanddie	ok, anyone got eurosport or something	22:20
Xenon\|XZ	i have	22:21
crashanddie	the local channel just stopped showing the match between henin and some russian chick, Sharapova	22:21
ShadowJK	lol	22:21
ShadowJK	everything is broken :(	22:21
crashanddie	last I saw, it was 6-2 3-6	22:21
lcuk	ShadowJK, did you just reflash?	22:22
ShadowJK	no	22:22
ShadowJK	ssu	22:22
lcuk	just?	22:22
ShadowJK	yes	22:22
ShadowJK	now it crashed and died	22:22
ShadowJK	and reset	22:23
crashanddie	hmm... the ibm website says "play suspended"	22:23
lcuk	the pin dialog is up whilst you locked during update?	22:23
lcuk	or the update had completed	22:23
lcuk	and had rebooted afterwards	22:23
ShadowJK	it completed afaik	22:23
ShadowJK	rebooted, progress bar at reboot, then normal boot	22:24
* SpeedEvil likes tennis.		22:24
SpeedEvil	I don't really pay attention to the scores though.	22:24
crashanddie	man, that's how bad the coverage is	22:25
* ShadowJK sighs.		22:25
crashanddie	I had to check twitter to find out what happened	22:25
crashanddie	"Sharapova v Henin tied at 1-set all (1st set Henin 6-2, 2nd set Sharapova 6-3) when play halted due to bad light. #frenchopen"	22:25
lcuk	ShadowJK, what happens when it gets to desktop	22:26
lcuk	is the theme totally dead	22:26
lcuk	or cant you even get to desktop	22:26
ShadowJK	yes	22:26
ShadowJK	there's a purple rectangle instead of task switcher	22:26
ShadowJK	no icons	22:26
ShadowJK	no fonts	22:26
ShadowJK	default gtk theme	22:26
SpeedEvil	IIRC a couple of people hitting that	22:27
SpeedEvil	one last night	22:27
lcuk	bah	22:27
ShadowJK	it's popping up dialogs and wanting me to answer stuff but I dont know the question	22:27
ShadowJK	and don't know what the buttons are	22:27
ShadowJK	if I touch stuff it crashes..	22:28
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lcuk	ShadowJK, looks like you will have to reflash :(	22:29
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ensi	hello anyone know whats the deal with MSN on N900? the port is defaulted to 0 after setting to 1863 the login still doesnt happen but the signing in dialog closes immediately.	22:34
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crashanddie	ensi: I don't believe MSN is supported out-of-the-box, so you may want to contact the maintainer for that application you're talking about.	22:36
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ensi	crashanddie: i have the telepathy plugin installed	22:37
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crashanddie	jaska: serbia deserved to get their asses kicked in the war considering what they've sent to eurovision	22:39
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Stskeeps	ow	22:39
Stskeeps	:P	22:39
DaReaper	hi	22:39
DaReaper	im on my n900	22:39
DaReaper	using xchat	22:39
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jaska	well, im skipping eurovision till the year 22000 or so, doubt .fi will win for a few millennia after lordi :)	22:39
ensi	n900 is so buggy :/	22:40
DaReaper	it is ?	22:40
ensi	yes	22:40
DaReaper	what kind of bugs	22:40
GAN900	lol	22:41
GAN900	Depends heavily on you usecas	22:41
GAN900	e	22:41
ensi	wlan dropping stuff jams up	22:41
ensi	bad usability in a lot of cases	22:41
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DaReaper	i dont face wlan problems	22:41
Stskeeps	i have some odd PSM problems atm	22:41
ensi	good for you	22:41
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ensi	my n900 drops wlan every so often	22:42
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DaReaper	if you mess with system files a lot	22:42
GAN900	ensi, weird router?	22:42
lcuk	ensi, its not good you feel that, if these are long term problems for you, have you checked the bug lists (and if capable potentially reproduce/diagnose/even repair) them because we are mostly a community distribution with many components on your machine coming direct from oss	22:42
ensi	GAN900: no	22:43
GAN900	lcuk, minus networking. :)	22:43
ensi	lcuk: nokia outsourced the testing to users?	22:43
tom_ilsinszki	hi all	22:43
DaReaper	hi	22:44
lcuk	ensi, can any entity test every combination of the entire system?	22:44
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ensi	lcuk: do i care? for something i pay 500€ i expect it to work	22:45
lcuk	bugs happen, but without people doing something about them (minus moaning) the developers dont know theres a problem	22:45
crashanddie	ensi: please be helpful, this is a community channel,and we're not here to take any heat on Nokia's part	22:45
lcuk	so have you been onto nokia care about your issue?	22:46
brendans	ensi, I think it's more a matter of how early features are released; Nokia wanted to make a developer friendly device, and it does/did have a lot of features before other similar devices. The cost is sometimes stability	22:46
DaReaper	anyways	22:46
ShadowJK	my n900 drops wlan about twice a year at this rate :D	22:46
johnx	ensi, did you come here to complain or to get help troubleshooting?	22:46
johnx	(honest question)	22:46
DaReaper	is it possible to manage your SIM	22:46
* crashanddie waves at johnx		22:47
jaska	mine hasnt dropped wlan yet, and seems to work with the old wrt-54gl + tomato ok	22:47
jaska	so it stays psm most of the time	22:47
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Dima202	I tried doing ping yahoo.com and playing a stream using 3g but it still stops playing after a few minutes of idel	22:47
johnx	allo crashanddie :)	22:47
ensi	yeah true its not the maemo communitys fault per se that the end product is rubbish	22:47
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DocScrutinizer	(<lcuk> i think anonymous posting should be acceptable too) And I think deleting post/threads should be enabled for all registered users	22:48
johnx	ensi, by and large we're in the same boat as you. there have been cases of even normal routers interacting poorly with the N900s wifi power savings mode	22:48
johnx	and there are workarounds/ways to test	22:48
johnx	and if you can reproduce the test case with a certain router, it's possible Nokia can code around it for the next release	22:49
DaReaper	is it possible to manage your SIM like we can on the N97 , there is no option on n900 to manage the SIM	22:49
SpeedEvil	However - that's simply due to the fact that some routers are broken with powersave.	22:49
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, ill defend your anonymous right to say what you like. i will gladly give you a threshhold however because you should not be forced to read them	22:49
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: at very least get a 'blame' button in addition to the 'thanks'	22:49
crashanddie	DaReaper: NO	22:49
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SpeedEvil	My laptop is broken the same way with one of my routers	22:49
crashanddie	DaReaper: explain the features you want, we don't know the N97	22:49
lcuk	look @ slashdot, everyone can comment but the default reading of articles only shows the upvoted items	22:49
lcuk	a user has to change settings to see/read all comments	22:50
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ensi	btw is the maemo communit going to transition to a lego community now?	22:50
b-man	one of the very reasons i don't post on talk.maemo.org anymore is because of the overflow of complaint posts/threads and little effort in improving the whole issue - too many people are relying on noka than doing it their sefl, lol	22:50
DaReaper	crashanddie : like the ability to get information from you network provider like news , weather etc	22:51
lcuk	ensi, :D	22:51
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crashanddie	DaReaper: as far as I'm aware, no	22:51
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b-man	*self	22:51
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DaReaper	will this be available in future releases	22:51
lcuk	DaReaper, does the net provider send this information?	22:52
lcuk	first ive heard about it	22:52
jaska	could be wap stuff	22:52
DaReaper	yes it does as an sms	22:52
crashanddie	lcuk: yeah, it's quite popular	22:52
lcuk	well thats data not just stored on the sim?	22:52
GAN900	lcuk, no, but Nokia, unfortunately, doesn't manage to provide enough to test a reasonable minimum.	22:52
lcuk	ahh right, if its an sms does it come in list?	22:52
ShadowJK	it's software on the SIM probably	22:53
lcuk	GAN900, ?	22:53
GAN900	lcuk, PR1.2, like nearly every Maemo update before it, is regression city.	22:53
ShadowJK	and N900 doesn't run that	22:53
DaReaper	and also all gprs and access point information is sent by them that way	22:53
lcuk	well GAN900 give list of regressions, i only know of 1 to date (please give MB#)	22:53
lcuk	ShadowJK, ? the sim has a cpu	22:54
ShadowJK	My N900 is able to receive configuration data from my operator... but the correct option is to reject it anyway, as my operator's system sends incorrect configs trying to sabotage me :)	22:54
b-man\|n900	lol	22:54
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ShadowJK	lcuk, there's software stored on it atleast, and I the phone is supposed to execute it inside a virtual machine or something	22:55
DaReaper	well i need to receive info from my oper5or	22:55
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GAN900	lcuk, two of my latest are.	22:55
GAN900	lcuk, I have others that I haven't gotten around to filing yet.	22:55
lcuk	no good without numbers gan you know that	22:55
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johnx	"This bug is uselss without #s" is the new "This thread is useless without pics" :) (see also: "bug #s or it's not reproducible")	22:56
lcuk	:D	22:56
DaReaper	how will i receive the access point configurations now from my network provider ?	22:56
ensi	i wish i could run another terminal...	22:56
ShadowJK	do I have to flash both rootfs and emmc..	22:56
crashanddie	DaReaper: how do you request the information if it comes through an SMS?	22:57
johnx	ensi, menu -> new terminal	22:57
lcuk	ensi, ?on the terminal menu open a new one	22:57
GAN900	lcuk, have been filed.	22:57
GAN900	lcuk, and sp3000 has already looked at it.	22:57
GAN900	lcuk, please don't accuse me of laziness.	22:57
ensi	johnx: omg heh thanks!	22:57
* Stskeeps headdesks		22:57
b-man\|n900	LOL	22:57
crashanddie	ensi: also shift + arrow + x	22:58
lcuk	im not GAN900	22:58
DaReaper	well there is an option when i was using my n73 to get info from my network provider , they send us sms.s as a setting to save and restart the phone and then the access points get saved	22:58
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lcuk	GAN900, do you know of any typing speed tests you could run on n900 - i am interested to see how fast you actually burn through messages	22:59
lcuk	you have girl thumbs :P	22:59
GAN900	lcuk, 60 wpm or so on the Flash one I tried a few weeks ago.	22:59
johnx	ensi, for the wifi dropping, go into settings -> internet connections -> connections -> <your wifi network> -> Edit -> Next -> Next -> Next -> Advanced -> Other -> Power saving: On (intermediate) \|\| Off -> Save -> Finish	22:59
lcuk	heh cool	22:59
GAN900	lcuk, pianist's fingers. :)	23:00
johnx	I'd try Off first IIWU	23:00
crashanddie	GAN900: http://www.calculatorcat.com/typing_test/	23:00
lcuk	GAN900, thats a reasonable analogy :)	23:00
GAN900	lcuk, the rest of them are slightly less consistently reproducible.	23:00
bennypr0fane	Has anyone encountered this before? I did this: apt-get remove libqt4-phonon to free up rootspace (it was recommended here: http://wiki.maemo.org/OTA_to_PR1.1_troubleshooting#Not_Enough_Free_Space, of course I tried all the other things first), but something went wrong there: now my N900 won't boot. It seems to be stuck in a loop, it only gets to the dialog for entering the PIN and then it keeps starting again and again. Hope this can	23:00
bennypr0fane	somehow? :-(	23:00
DaReaper	crashanddie did u read my above meaaage ?	23:01
lcuk	sure, copying prewritten tests isnt the same	23:01
GAN900	Like the weird SGX/HD bug I encountered after I first flashed where the dashboard got stuck halfway between each transition.	23:01
crashanddie	DaReaper: I did	23:01
DaReaper	oh	23:01
lcuk	perhaps a live WPM meter for your normal x11 input would be cool	23:01
DaReaper	so did you get an idea of what i was saying ?	23:01
johnx	bennypr0fane, do you have a linux box to hook the N900 into?	23:01
ensi	i think the reason why msn is not working has something to do with the configuration errors	23:01
johnx	try turning off lifequard reset and see if you can get in far enough to reinstall the package	23:01
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Stskeeps	GAN900: do you see any logic in me doing good for n8x0's using meego, and not making sure the posts and forum stuff is done in the right place, ie, in meego?	23:02
crashanddie	DaReaper: I do, however this is not supported by the N900 as said before. There is no word on whether such features will be supported in the future.	23:02
frals	GAN900: i had that too with SGX reseting on each touchscreen click after flash	23:02
DaReaper	oh okay ty anyways	23:02
Stskeeps	GAN900: instead of being ass backwards and posting it on talk, where it literally disappears	23:02
bennypr0fane	johnx no, win xp	23:02
johnx	bennypr0fane, actually, there's a CLI flasher for WinXP as well now that I think of it	23:03
bennypr0fane	what is a cli flasher?	23:03
crashanddie	DaReaper: this being said, provided enough user demand for it, this may be a feature pushed forward, or some community member may pick up the task (however, considering it's manipulating the SIM, this may be difficult as that part isn't open source). Please check the brainstorm and bugtracker to find some information regarding it	23:03
johnx	it's a "CommandLine Interface" version of the firmware updater, but it can change other settings	23:03
johnx	You can use it to disable a feature that causes the N900 to automatically reboot if a core program dies	23:04
lcuk	GAN900, frals hmmmf	23:04
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: More than that. The SIM is connected to a completely different CPU, running a closed-source signed blob.	23:04
bennypr0fane	johnx i already downloaded Maemo flasher 3.5	23:04
frals	GAN900: not been able to reproduce after rebooting though	23:04
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: So if it does not support it, your only option is to convince the devs of that module to supply a patch	23:04
johnx	right, you should use flasher 3.5 with the no lifeguard reset option	23:04
johnx	look through the help for the program	23:04
crashanddie	SpeedEvil: so highly unlikely	23:04
trip0	anyone having video playback issues?	23:05
frals	btw, after a 'real' reboot dmesg counterthing resets doesnt it?	23:05
bennypr0fane	johnx just not sure how to use it. help contains a few terms i'm not familiar with	23:05
crashanddie	what the hell is happening tonight, is it a n900 support sprint?	23:05
Stskeeps	crashanddie: eurovision and n900 support sprint in one	23:05
frals	because after ota update to pr1.2 dmesg counter/timestamp thingy was still way high for a fresh boot	23:05
lcuk	has been all week crashanddie :)	23:05
Stskeeps	crashanddie: serbia is obviously a iphone user ;p	23:05
crashanddie	Stskeeps: turkey is a total muse ripoff	23:05
lcuk	lots of people examining parts of the system they dont normally	23:05
DaReaper	okay crashanddie ill check it over there	23:06
frals	rofl Stskeeps	23:06
bennypr0fane	crashhanddie is this channel not where to do that?	23:06
johnx	bennypr0fane, one sec, I'll find you a reference	23:06
DaReaper	thanks for the support	23:06
crashanddie	DaReaper: np	23:06
jaska	i put my nose everywhere on the system, but i used to do embedded linux for a living so its not unexpected	23:06
frals	swedish commentators called turkeys band "the turkish linkin park"	23:06
Noma	more like turkish system of a down	23:06
nikki93	I'm considering selling my iPhone 'cuz it ain't fun enough.	23:07
nikki93	What's the best thing to get?	23:07
nikki93	'droid or n900?	23:07
nikki93	(cost doesn't matter)	23:07
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johnx	nikki93, do you like hacking around in linux?	23:07
nikki93	johnx: I <3 it.	23:07
johnx	N900	23:07
nikki93	Okay.	23:07
pupnik	easy	23:07
nikki93	johnx: I've heard bad things about n900 touchscreen though. Is it taht bad?	23:08
johnx	it's different than the capacitive screens	23:08
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johnx	requires a bit firmer push	23:08
nikki93	Yeah.	23:08
johnx	but it's just about the best resistive screen I've ever used	23:08
nikki93	How's it with a stylus?	23:08
johnx	fine	23:08
nikki93	Good to hear.	23:08
bennypr0fane	still not reaaly a push tho	23:08
johnx	it's also fine with a finger nail	23:08
crashanddie	but it allows using your nails, fingers, pens, stylus	23:08
bennypr0fane	it's still defintiely "touch"	23:08
pupnik	i tap everything with fingernail now and have become very accurate	23:09
lcuk	i believe some people can use it with other body parts too	23:09
brendans	not to mention, you can put it in a protective cover (e.g. for using in the rain)	23:09
nikki93	lcuk: lawl	23:09
nikki93	brendans: Aha nice idea.	23:09
johnx	bennypr0fane, http://wiki.maemo.org/R%26D_mode	23:09
nikki93	Hmm, so name some ultrageekykewl stuff to do with N900.	23:09
crashanddie	lcuk: we know your penis is as fine as a stylus, but please, keep the channel PG	23:09
johnx	bennypr0fane, flasher-3.5 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset	23:09
GAN900	Stskeeps, sounds reasonable.	23:09
brendans	yeah, we use it to time jogs	23:09
brendans	ziplock FTW	23:09
johnx	I think that's your best shot unless someone has a better idea	23:09
* GAN900 is at work.		23:09
nikki93	crashanddie: Dude, he never mentioned it. you brought it up first.	23:09
lcuk	crashanddie, i meant ears actually	23:09
GAN900	So excuse the long ping times. ;)	23:10
crashanddie	nikki93: actually, for his sake I hope he didn't bring anything "up"	23:10
nikki93	Lets say you were stuck in a room for a month.	23:10
lcuk	has anyone modded a bottle opener onto n900 yet	23:10
nikki93	With n900 with infinite battery.	23:10
nikki93	And lotsa food.	23:10
nikki93	What would you do?	23:10
nikki93	(wifi is available)	23:10
pupnik	i like to share my 3g connection over the easyHotSpot app	23:10
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flux	nikki93, is the battery charged?	23:10
crashanddie	nikki93: google maps and put clues as to where I am	23:10
nikki93	flux: Yep. :D	23:11
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crashanddie	nikki93: "cold" "cold" "cold" "warmer"	23:11
lcuk	n900 buffy edition should be released - replace the stylus with a wooden stake	23:11
johnx	nikki93, I've been thinking about tapping into dbus for a whole bunch of stuff, but I keep putting it off	23:11
flux	nikki93, well, I'd solve the world energy problems and make buttloads of money while doing it!	23:11
frals	lcuk: cant you just use the bezel? ;D	23:11
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lcuk	frals im just trying now with the back cover	23:11
brendans	nikki93: Probably continue per usual; I do most things on my N900 anyway	23:11
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flux	actually, I wonder if it mattered if there was actually such a battery.. because you cannot draw infinite wattage from it without it breaking down	23:11
bennypr0fane	johnx could you give me just the command to enter into the flasher? do i leave the N900 power off?	23:12
johnx	honestly, most of the hacks you could do on the N900 can be done on a droid, but the N900 has a more comfortable Linux environment, I beleive	23:12
lcuk	flux, is your last name capacitor?	23:12
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nikki93	Is it possible to get a normal gnome ui running if you wanna	23:12
johnx	bennypr0fane, I did. and just follow whatever normal instructions you'd use for flashing the N900, except instead of flashing an image do the no-lifeguard-reset thing	23:12
johnx	search up in your scrollback for the exact line	23:13
ensi	so you guys have any idea about this problem	23:13
ZogG	MohammadAG,	23:13
lcuk	is it just me or have there been less on device OS ports since the n900?	23:13
ensi	http://pastebin.com/MMrHS6gT	23:13
johnx	nikki93, people are playing around chrooting into "normal" linux distros	23:13
lcuk	is it because of the rootfs/emmc layout?	23:13
johnx	dunno if anyone has put much effort into getting something "normal" booting on the N900	23:13
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lcuk	or just because years of 770/8x0 gained the experience necessary	23:13
lcuk	small fragments over time etc	23:14
bennypr0fane	johnx thanks. but doesn't the n900 have to be on in order to do it?	23:14
lcuk	ie: has anyone managed to get fremantle booting from mmc?	23:14
johnx	lcuk, well, if the N900 is your phone, it gives you more incentive to actually having it in a state where it can accept calls :)	23:14
crashanddie	johnx: calls, from whom?	23:14
lcuk	sure johnx thats potentially something	23:14
crashanddie	johnx: you're not seriously saying that GSM thingy you speak of will take off one day?	23:15
johnx	bennypr0fane, basically, you start the flasher running, turn the N900 off, then hold u and plug it into usb	23:15
lcuk	Stskeeps, did you try fremantle on mmc or mer	23:15
lcuk	i know meego does	23:15
DaReaper	is the N900 safe from viruses ?	23:15
Stskeeps	lcuk: some people did	23:15
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brendans	nikki93, there's a project in the standard "extras" repository that lets you install a chroot of Debian in the MyDocs space	23:15
johnx	DaReaper, which viruses?	23:15
lcuk	some people being? any blogs posts sources we can track down	23:15
lcuk	for guidelines	23:15
DaReaper	well any kind of malware seen on the internet	23:16
johnx	DaReaper, two questions there: 1) is it safe from any virus out there now? 2) Is it safe from all future viruses automatically?	23:16
lcuk	DaReaper, it runs linux on a different cpu arch	23:16
DaReaper	or rootkits	23:16
brendans	nikki93, i.e. full Debian Linux running in parallel on the same system	23:16
johnx	1) yes 2) no	23:16
lcuk	until viruses start specifically targeting it	23:16
crashanddie	babe alert, ukraine chick Stskeeps	23:16
DaReaper	hmmm ok so there r no viruses yet that can target the phone	23:16
MohammadAG	ZogG, ?	23:16
crashanddie	not yet, anyhoo	23:16
brendans	plus, technically it's probably slower on baseutils updates than a desktop distro	23:17
DaReaper	but still malwares are poaaible to target	23:17
lcuk	DaReaper, we did have an outbreak of thehonour virus after someone left it on their sig	23:17
nikki93	n900 has a dedicated gfx chip right	23:17
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ZogG	MohammadAG where have you got all those games?	23:17
brendans	so old exploits are probably still live	23:17
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lcuk	took us months to clear it off	23:17
ZogG	MohammadAG, btw can you share with me paradise city?	23:17
crashanddie	brendans: baseutils?	23:17
crashanddie	brendans: or do you mean busybox?	23:17
DaReaper	oh was the virus fixed	23:17
lcuk	no it lies dormant	23:17
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lcuk	ill find a link, make sure your virus checker is enabled	23:18
brendans	crashanddie: well, I said baseutils, but I suppose I just mean the common GNU/Linux components... I misspoke	23:18
lcuk	it can pass via irc	23:18
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lcuk	Please delete all the files on your hard disk,	23:18
lcuk	then forward this message to everyone you know.	23:18
lcuk	Thank you for your cooperation.	23:18
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pupnik	send to iPad owner	23:18
midas_	ZogG: gnr version, slash vs fergie or axl rose version? :)	23:19
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brendans	crashanddie: Still, things like X are going to tend to lag behind the desktop versions, since it takes so long to push things through to the tablets	23:19
ZogG	midas_ say what	23:19
bennypr0fane	ok, I got the n900 plugged into the usb powered off, Flasher runnning. Now i'll enter this command into the flasher: --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset Is that it?	23:19
midas_	paradise city ;)	23:19
brendans	crashanddie: and other misc system services, etc.	23:19
ZogG	midas_ burnout?	23:19
johnx	bennypr0fane, looks good	23:19
midas_	old song?	23:20
johnx	bennypr0fane, sorry, usb unplugged n900 off, run flasher, plug n900 in	23:20
johnx	flasher will wait for the N900	23:20
midas_	you know, axl rose, guns n roses?	23:20
GAN900	Stskeeps, only problem is that you're going to start pulling THAT crowd to meego.com. :P	23:20
crashanddie	brendans: I'm pretty sure that critical fixes can be backported and pushed through quickly.	23:20
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DaReaper	has nokia worked to design an anti virus ? just incase	23:22
brendans	crashanddie: fair enough, I guess I'm just thinking in general terms as a response to the vulnerability question	23:22
johnx	DaReaper, nope	23:22
bennypr0fane	is the flasher supposed to react when i plug in? it's not doing anything	23:23
DaReaper	well they better do	23:23
johnx	DaReaper, Are you going to create a virus?	23:23
Dima202	Hey fellas, I'm trying to stream some music via mplayer I get AO OSS audio_setup: Can't open audio device /dev/dsp: No such file of directory	23:23
DaReaper	lol no	23:23
crashanddie	DaReaper: why would Nokia do such a thing?	23:23
johnx	DaReaper, so, how do you think an anti-virus program works typically?	23:23
DaReaper	i am worried of internet malwares	23:23
pupnik	no oss Dima202	23:24
b-man\|n900	DaReaper: don't worrie - maemo isn't that popular yet ;P	23:24
Dima202	And I keep getting Write ERROR: Broken Pipe	23:24
crashanddie	DaReaper: there are anti viral solutions for Linux, it would just be a matter of porting it	23:24
DaReaper	oh okay	23:24
johnx	Dima202, try with pulse output?	23:24
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johnx	crashanddie, and all those do right now is scan for files infected with windows viruses :)	23:24
brendans	DaReaper: As it stands though, it's not even the same architecture as most desktops; it'd have to be a virus written for phones or wireless routers, etc.	23:24
johnx	(though a large number of linux routers are MIPS, not ARM)	23:25
brendans	(true)	23:25
DaReaper	hmmm okay so maemo is still untouched	23:25
bennypr0fane	flasher says the command wasn't found	23:25
DaReaper	for now	23:25
b-man\|n900	and there has been few viruses for linux in general thus far	23:25
brendans	That doesn't mean it couldn't be done, but virus writers these days are typically worried about making money, and it's not a very big market	23:26
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johnx	bennypr0fane, pastebin an exact copy of what you typed and the output	23:26
brendans	Not like the bad old days of the '90s when people would open an attachment and have their motherboard voltage adjusted	23:26
b-man\|n900	but that may change in the future if linux gets as mainstream as linux	23:26
b-man\|n900	*windows	23:26
b-man\|n900	LOL	23:26
* b-man\|n900 needs coffee		23:26
* johnx hands b-man some (coldish) coffee		23:27
pupnik	with creamed trout on top	23:27
bennypr0fane	how do i pastebin?	23:27
Dima202	I see that mplayer is generally slow for most stuff on n900 :( default media player does a better job	23:27
johnx	pastebin.com (or pastebin.ca)	23:27
johnx	then drop the link here	23:27
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bennypr0fane	bennypr0fane never uses commandlines...	23:27
Dima202	is it just me?	23:28
johnx	Dima202, mplayer could be better optimized for ARM	23:28
johnx	the default Nokia player is	23:28
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bennypr0fane	sorry, i have no idea how to use this.	23:29
bennypr0fane	i typed exactly the command you gave, double-checked it	23:30
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johnx	since you're on windows, make sure you have a .exe on the end of flasher	23:30
johnx	it might need to say flasher-3.5.exe --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset	23:31
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* GAN900 needs to remember to remember to do mwkn tomorrow.		23:32
* Stskeeps needs to remember to ban talk.maemo.org from his weekends		23:32
Stskeeps	:P	23:32
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pupnik	all these mysterious quiet .fi chatters...	23:33
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spectre-	hi!	23:34
johnx	hallo spectre-	23:34
spectre-	<in rwanda	23:34
spectre-	xchattin on mah n900	23:34
spectre-	:D	23:34
brendans	beagleboard channel is like a ghost town...	23:35
jaska	pupnik: sshhh!	23:35
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bennypr0fane	jonhx it's not working	23:36
pupnik	spectre, that is an unusual location. working for cellphone co?	23:37
johnx	bennypr0fane, I can't tell what's happening unless you give me more of a clue than that...	23:37
midas_	so. anyone got videocalling working with skype?	23:37
johnx	midas_, yeah. works good here	23:38
midas_	i cant get it to work :P	23:38
johnx	ok	23:38
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midas_	ill just reflash it with the emmc	23:41
midas_	so it's completely clean	23:41
johnx	I did that and the person I was testing with (rm_you) had done the OTA upgrade	23:42
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midas_	i couldnt update ota	23:42
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LiraNuna	anyone else gets reversed application list on application manager?	23:42
midas_	too many unsupported software :p	23:42
LiraNuna	when I show 'all', the list starts with a z	23:43
bennypr0fane	johnx http://www.4shared.com/photo/gbhTrwlG/scrnshot_flasher_3-5.html	23:43
midas_	you might want to change the sorting	23:43
LiraNuna	I can't	23:43
LiraNuna	there's no such option anymore	23:43
bennypr0fane	i also tried with .exe, same result	23:44
johnx	bennypr0fane, ah. thank you. that makes more sense.	23:44
spectre-	jesus	23:44
spectre-	internet here is worse than uganda	23:44
pupnik	LiraNuna: i use catorise and have no probs with sort	23:44
LiraNuna	application manager	23:44
johnx	bennypr0fane, type exactly this:	23:44
johnx	flasher-3.5.exe --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset	23:44
LiraNuna	i.e add/remoe	23:44
pupnik	congrats on your connection spectre-	23:45
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lcuk	LiraNuna, o_O	23:45
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LiraNuna	when I go to Download -> All	23:46
LiraNuna	I get the list from Z to A	23:46
spectre-	thx	23:46
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bennypr0fane	johnx http://www.4shared.com/photo/UyiiCgYI/scrnshot_2_flasher_3-5.html see any typos?	23:47
bennypr0fane	still nothing...	23:48
johnx	need a space	23:48
bennypr0fane	argh, overlooked that	23:49
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bennypr0fane	it says "suitable usb device not found, waiting"	23:51
johnx	now plug in the usb	23:51
johnx	while holding u	23:51
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thunderfest	bennypr0fane good now make sure the device is powered off then hold u and plug in the usb	23:52
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bennypr0fane	done. windows says errror while installing new hardware	23:53
MohammadAG	64 bit?	23:53
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bennypr0fane	no, 32	23:53
Macer	a tabbed term would be nice	23:54
ShadowJK	there's enough wasted vertical space already :)	23:55
johnx	tabs on the right (or left)	23:56
ShadowJK	or in the menu	23:57
johnx	actually, would be cool to switch tabs by moving your finger in from the left or right	23:57
bennypr0fane	I'm stumped. now what?	23:57
johnx	me too. I don't know how to use windows :/	23:58
thunderfest	I agree gesture based terminal tabbing would be an improvement	23:58
thunderfest	bennypr0fane: yeah I'm a linux user as well	23:58
brendans	LiraNuna, I'm looking at some of the hildon-application-manager options, and there's a program called hildon-application-manager-config that allows you to dump the configuration information to terminal	23:58
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johnx	mmmm...or just make the "swipe in from the left send a ctrl-a ctrl-space	23:58
brendans	LiraNuna, might be worth taking a look... there are some sort options in the XML that I haven't had a good look at yet	23:59
LiraNuna	it gives an XML	23:59
ZogG	so is nokia sdk qt is only for c++ devs or i can use pyqt?	23:59
thunderfest	bennypr0fane: you could download and burn a linux live cd and then use it to flash...I	23:59
LiraNuna	nothing related to sorting, brendans	23:59

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