IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-05-27

strohi	hm	00:00
josephnexus	at least that's what mine did	00:00
joga	yeah	00:00
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marex	Enter PIN	00:00
marex	...	00:00
marex	invitation ... wtf	00:01
joga	invitation?	00:01
xorAxAx	ruskie: so what do i need to modify in my scripts for 1.2?	00:01
marex	dunno ... there were two buttons	00:01
dmj726	is there a 64 bit version of flasher?	00:01
marex	Term and whatever (didn't read that far) and Continue	00:01
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marex	*Terms of use maybe	00:01
joga	I don't recall such	00:01
joga	but might have been there	00:01
joga	heh, no one reads those ;P	00:02
marex	this is europe ... free continent :b	00:02
lcuk	xorAxAx, what kinds of scripts	00:02
joga	like ads on the internet...even if you don't have adblock, your brain skips them	00:02
xorAxAx	lcuk: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie	00:02
marex	MAEMO 5 ... 10.2010.19-1	00:02
ruskie	marex, there is some thing called My Nokia in settings now	00:02
marex	over dist-upgrade :)	00:02
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xorAxAx	ruskie: do the old sed commands work?	00:03
pupnik_	is there any saving script for us dist-upgraders?	00:03
ruskie	xorAxAx, no scripts changed	00:03
marex	ruskie, what's that for ... worthless	00:03
ruskie	marex, no clue... some sms service or something	00:03
xorAxAx	ruskie: hmm? the update doesnt revert the scripts?	00:03
xorAxAx	ruskie: then why did it get you stuck in a loop	00:03
joga	"When you have registered to My Nokia, free tips and support will be sent regularly via SMS to your Nokia." ... lol, if I was really lonely I might even subscribe to that	00:03
ruskie	xorAxAx, no clue	00:03
marex	ruskie, the description says "I'm useless, you don't want to use me" ... ok	00:04
ruskie	joga, hmm it's saying I'm subscribed but I'm 100% sure I never subscribed	00:04
* xorAxAx found the reason for the OTA problems: "apt-get dist-upgrade" may not remove a single package, otherwise HAM bails out		00:04
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xorAxAx	ruskie: so i can update to pr 1.2 and dont need to run anything afterwards?	00:04
josephnexus	is there a changelog for 1.2?	00:04
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joga	ruskie: seems gray for me too, and unsubscribe seems selectable	00:05
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xorAxAx	josephnexus: yes, in the wiki	00:05
xorAxAx	josephnexus: see RC	00:05
* joga presses unsubscribe		00:05
joga	it's still the same	00:05
MohammadAG_	Gotta run peeops	00:05
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MohammadAG_	-o	00:05
MohammadAG_	Night #maemo	00:05
josephnexus	see ya	00:05
Dr_Cain	so uh, update OTA or via cable?	00:05
* MohammadAG_ slaps noobmonk3y and throws him at frals		00:05
joga	LOL now I got an SMS "Attempt to unsubscribe has failed. Go to 'My Nokia' in Settings to try again. Visit www. blalbalbbal"	00:05
Dr_Cain	it's telling me I need to plug it in and run through nokia software update	00:05
joga	go nokia :)	00:05
lcuk	gnite MohammadAG_	00:05
frals	nn MohammadAG_	00:05
MohammadAG_	joga, I couldn't unsubscribe too	00:06
dmj726	xorAxAx: What was making it bail?	00:06
joga	maybe they just highlighted the wrong buttons	00:06
MohammadAG_	joga, you paid to see that message btw ;)	00:06
joga	;p	00:06
xorAxAx	unsubscribe from what?	00:06
marex	ruskie, well thanks for the support ... time to fight OE again :-(	00:06
joga	MohammadAG_!	00:06
MohammadAG_	Night lcuk, night frals	00:06
xorAxAx	dmj726: libqt4-qt3support	00:06
joga	an outrage! :-p	00:06
MohammadAG_	yes you paid for it	00:06
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dmj726	xorAxAx: is anything using that?	00:06
xorAxAx	dmj726: nope	00:06
joga	xorAxAx: from the my nokia thing	00:06
lcuk	xorAxAx, rcs late was modified	00:07
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lcuk	opt is a mountbind now	00:07
xorAxAx	lcuk: ah	00:07
xorAxAx	hmm, OTA failed for me	00:08
dmj726	so that wasn't it?	00:08
lcuk	well you have done some pretty invasive mods	00:08
xorAxAx	well, it said "failed" in the middle of processing	00:08
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joga	xorAxAx: did it keep going or stop?	00:09
xorAxAx	it stopped working and rebootet	00:09
joga	k :(	00:09
xorAxAx	s/t$/d/	00:09
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dougt_	is thumb supported in the 1.2 rom? I have looked at two device (cat /proc/cpuinfo) and do not see thumb listed as a feature. But I do have one person saying that it was supported in the 1.1 ROM.	00:09
joga	if you have shortcutd running and press the cam key while it's updating you probably get "Operation failed" notification at some point but it doesn't matter	00:09
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joga	dougt_: thumb?	00:10
* MohammadAG 's shadow slaps frals again		00:10
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* frals chucks a whale at moh		00:10
frals	bah!	00:10
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Shapeshifter	Today I walked past the guy who wrote vim	00:11
Shapeshifter	Didn't get the chance to shake hands...	00:12
spinningcompass	Shapeshifter: You forgot the key combo, right? :) !shake: (switch to entry mode) $$$shake.	00:13
dmj726	where do I get the image to flash my n900 with	00:13
marex	joga, arm has two instruction sets ever since like v4	00:13
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dmj726	I do not want to delete everything, just get pr1.2	00:13
marex	joga, and those two can interwork	00:13
Shapeshifter	spinningcompass: :P	00:13
slonopotamus	dougt_: thumb is supported by cpu. it has nothing to do with firmware	00:13
joga	marex, oh, ok, I don't know the arm architecture all that well	00:14
Aranel	slonopotamus: now I got 53.8 but It says I should use NSU. Do you know why?	00:14
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DocScrutinizer	see /topic	00:15
GAN900	Aranel, that warning is because it has conflicting packages that it doesn't know how to deal with.	00:16
GAN900	Aranel, so check with apt.	00:16
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/OTA_to_PR1.1_troubleshooting#How_to_find_out_about_conflicting_packages.3F	00:17
DocScrutinizer	RTFW	00:18
Aranel	already. thanks for the link :)	00:18
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, lol	00:18
dmj726	where are the firmware images	00:18
joga	btw, do you guys have weird behavior when entering tilde? like you need to press it twice	00:18
joga	the other keys like [ need only one click (haven't tried them all)	00:19
lcuk	Aranel, im just finishing PR2.0	00:19
joga	oh and this is a finnish layout	00:19
Shapeshifter	joga: that's not weird, that's normal	00:19
joga	oh, I see	00:19
Shapeshifter	joga: it's a deadkey for õñã etc.	00:19
joga	so you can ã?	00:19
joga	yup	00:19
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Aranel	lcuk: lol, but I have the enough space now. This isnt fair. :P	00:20
Shapeshifter	joga: same with ^	00:20
lcuk	i tried to tell you	00:20
lcuk	all the faffing and removing and mucking around isnt good for anything	00:20
* Shapeshifter is thinking about writing a better mail client		00:20
lcuk	if you are spending hours trying to find the space requirement you are easier backing up and cleanly flashing and restoring	00:20
marex	slonopotamus, careful, you need userland that supports interworking !	00:21
lcuk	Aranel, what happens if you try using command line and apt-get to perform the update	00:21
lcuk	does that actually tell you why its not possible (cant remember)	00:21
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SpeedEvil	Shapeshifter: pine	00:22
Aranel	lcuk: now I tried, it says "need to get 121MB of archives. After this operation, 21.1MB of additional disk space will be used. E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives"	00:23
TheFaioli	newbie question: to start writing an application for maemo, is it best to use the GNU build system or the Qt Creator?	00:23
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lcuk	doh yeah i forgot about that, ham uses a different place for it atm, ok nm	00:23
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Aranel	lcuk: so now what, 53M is not enough for it? It wants more?	00:24
lcuk	TheFaioli, it depends on what you want to achieve	00:24
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Shapeshifter	SpeedEvil: huh. pine is very old	00:24
lcuk	Aranel, it is conflicted did you read the message and page docs linked	00:24
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dmj726	what url is the nokia pr1.2 update located at	00:25
Aranel	lcuk: yes I did and it was noted under "Not Enough Free Space" with a link to "free up rootfs space"	00:25
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Shapeshifter	dmj726: www.google.com	00:25
TomaszD	dmj726, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	00:25
Shapeshifter	dmj726: or http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	00:25
Dr_Cain	how much rootfs do you need?	00:25
Dr_Cain	I have 42 MB now, is that enough?	00:25
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TheFaioli	lcuk: I am not sure I follow. What is the advantage of one over the other? Let's say I want to write a client to sync my contacts a web service.	00:25
chadi	!seen noobmonk3y	00:25
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lcuk	TheFaioli, well if its a gui app its recommended you use qt to start. but you will have to check if you have all the qt classes to access what you need	00:26
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DrGrov	Hi guys and girls	00:26
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TheFaioli	lcuk: So as a rule, Qt is better for GUI (and beginners?) and GNU is better for c dev like libs and such? (very rough rule of thumb)	00:28
dmj726	the emmc image is gereally unnecesay right?	00:28
Arkenoi	qt sucks today	00:28
TomaszD	it is essential for PR1.2 dmj726	00:28
simoneb_	seems like updating to 1.2 broke something on my n900... it boots, but every letter is displayed as a small square, it lacks some themes, etc	00:28
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dmj726	ah	00:29
Arkenoi	if it takes 3-5 seconds for application to launch it is showstopper	00:29
Dr_Cain	apt-get clean freed up some rootfs space	00:29
lcuk	TheFaioli, comparing Qt to GNU is not the same	00:29
Arkenoi	i hoped pr1.2 will change that as qt was expected to be preloaded	00:29
Dr_Cain	stupid partition design from the beginning tbh	00:29
Arkenoi	but no	00:29
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lcuk	people normally do qt vs gtk+gobject	00:29
TomaszD	dmj726, basically, if you follow instructions it's going to be OK, if you don't you'll end up in deep shit and you subsequently write a thread about how nokia sucks	00:29
lcuk	GNU build system stuff can be used for qt or gtk or many other things	00:29
TheFaioli	lcuk: Because both are UI... gotcha.	00:29
DrGrov	simoneb_: any problems while upgrading to PR 1.2? How did you upgrade? Flashing or OTA?	00:29
lcuk	yup TheFaioli	00:30
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Arkenoi	something is wrong with media tracker, i do not see any files in player	00:30
strcpy	Hi everybody. I`m downloading firmware update 1.2 . has anybody checked if this update resolve previous depencency hell mainly caused by Qt ?	00:30
Arkenoi	after update	00:30
simoneb_	DrGrov: no, no problems, i just attached it to the wire and let it go... OTA	00:30
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lcuk	so anyway, qt has a lower barrier of entry for new developers if everything flows smoothly	00:30
Dr_Cain	strcpy: you updating via the app manager ?	00:30
TheFaioli	lcuk: So I can basically use them interchangeably if I develop for Qt....	00:30
Dr_Cain	or apt?	00:30
DrGrov	simoneb_: attach it to the wire? OTA doesn't require any wire as fair as I know...	00:30
DrGrov	simoneb_: but yes, OTA it is.	00:30
lcuk	? use what interchangably?	00:30
strcpy	no. through nokia-software-update (forgot to mention N900)	00:31
simoneb_	DrGrov: yea, i mean the battery charger	00:31
Dr_Cain	damnit, it really wants to use the damn nokia updater :\|	00:31
Dr_Cain	I want to flash OTA!	00:31
DrGrov	simoneb_: the bootup is going smooth?	00:31
spinningcompass	I've created a Bluetooth PAN & now I can interact with the Nokia N810's screen via VNC on my Mac. Is there a way to run a program on the Nokia 810 from the Mac, feed the program from the Mac to the Nokia, and then watch the result on the Mac's screen?	00:31
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dmj726	so I can't update to pr 1.2 without killing my home?	00:31
GAN900	dmj726, huh?	00:31
TheFaioli	lcuk: I can use Qt Creator but basically the source can be compiled either way (suppose I send it to someone who does not use Qt Creator).	00:31
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simoneb_	DrGrov: it boots, (the intro video is not showing up but oh well ...) then in the desktop i can't see many things, i see letters as squares, etc	00:32
strcpy	Dr_Cain, I did just bricked my n900, it was due to updating to latest kernel-power dev release, I believe. and found it a good chance to upgrade to 1.2 too :)	00:32
dmj726	isn't the emmc image for the 32 gb?	00:32
Dr_Cain	oops :D	00:32
TomaszD	dmj726, that seems to be the case, so back up and move the back up off the phone	00:32
Dr_Cain	yeah bad idea X)	00:32
Dr_Cain	though you can get it back with the flasher , right?	00:32
jjmarin	what the hell is this: dpkg: serious warning: files list file for package `maemo-optify-runonce' missing, assuming package has no files currently installed.	00:32
simoneb_	DrGrov: for example i had some bookmarks on that desktop which i don't see... i see the foreca widget's outline, its icons (sun, clouds...) but not much else	00:32
DrGrov	simoneb_: i put a PM for you.	00:33
dmj726	this is painful compared to ubuntu	00:33
TheFaioli	Thanks!	00:33
Arkenoi	no videos/no music/no photos	00:33
strcpy	Dr_Cain, I already reflashed it to latest maemo .bin , to be able to use nokia-soft-up and just noticed 1.2 release :)	00:33
TomaszD	dmj726, no, flashing is not the preferred option, you are supposed to update OTA	00:33
DrGrov	simoneb_: sound like you have some serious issues with the installation of the firmware	00:33
Arkenoi	what can be the reason?	00:33
Arkenoi	reboot does not help	00:33
simoneb_	DrGrov: thank you... a pm to who?	00:33
strcpy	just be warned about trying kernel-power dev releases. in my case it leaded to constant reboots	00:33
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DrGrov	simoneb_: it didn't go as planned it seems	00:33
dmj726	OTA refuses to work	00:33
dmj726	I've spent 4 hours trying that	00:34
DrGrov	simoneb_: i wrote you a private message, but nevermind. we talk here, perhaps someone else can help out as well.	00:34
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TomaszD	so flash both FIASCO and eMMC dmj726, but first move your backup off the phone	00:34
TomaszD	you'll lose everything if you don't	00:34
simoneb_	DrGrov: oh, ok. anyway i don't mean the nokia logo, i can't see the small clip after that, the hands (which i changed into something else)	00:34
dmj726	yeah...I copied off my MyDocs...took half an hour just to copy that	00:34
DrGrov	simoneb_: when you updated you waited long enough to see the initial big lettered NOKIA screen with a progress bar?	00:34
TomaszD	and don't reboot between FIASCO and eMMC flash	00:35
ruskie	Purging configuration files for nokiamaps-navigation-provider ...	00:35
ruskie	rmdir: unrecognized option `--ignore-fail-on-non-empty'	00:35
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ruskie	so nicely broken	00:35
DrGrov	simoneb_: ah okay, you changed it.	00:35
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DrGrov	simoneb_: did you do a backup before you upgraded?	00:35
simoneb_	DrGrov: uhm, i think i waited too much because i didn't see the progress bar. i left the mobile on the table and came back after an hour or so.	00:36
simoneb_	DrGrov: yes i did	00:36
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DrGrov	simoneb_: you should have seen a blue lettered "NOKIA" appearing after the installation which had a progress bar. Did you see whether the phone told you that the software has been updated?	00:36
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Arkenoi	is there a way to force tracker to rescan manually?	00:36
TomaszD	yes	00:37
pupnik_	dunn	00:37
DrGrov	simoneb_: is there any way you can try to restore your latest backup?	00:37
simoneb_	DrGrov: ssh?	00:37
DrGrov	simoneb_: can you access any menus at all?	00:37
simoneb_	DrGrov: i can, but i can't read anything	00:37
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TomaszD	Arkenoi, tracker-processes -r	00:38
DrGrov	simoneb_: ok, that makes it a bit hard yes.	00:38
TomaszD	as a normal user	00:38
DrGrov	anyone know how to help simoneb_ with his firmware problem? :) kindly appreciated I think.	00:38
simoneb_	DrGrov: i remember i did a apt-get autoremove which removed libguile... is that bad?	00:38
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DrGrov	I have run out of ideas	00:38
simoneb_	yea very kindly appreciated, i confirm that	00:38
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DrGrov	simoneb_: no idea actually, i don't use apt-get autoremove at all since it might cause serious problems. not sure about libguile though if it is connected to your current problem.	00:39
* anonuk is so close to a working maemo, yet so far :(		00:39
spinningcompass	Is there a way to run NFS over a Bluetooth PAN between a Nokia N810 and a Macbook?	00:39
simoneb_	is there any way to restore a backup via ssh?	00:39
jjmarin	Anyone has success with apt-get -o dir::cache=/home/user/MyDocs/apt-archive-cache dist-upgrade	00:39
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jjmarin	for PR1.2 upgrade	00:40
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josephnexus	is there a way to have the calendar have a recurring event every 2nd and 4th friday of the month?	00:40
obcecado	hi, how can i make a video call thru skype ?	00:40
obcecado	i cant seem to find any menus	00:40
obcecado	pr 1.2	00:41
josephnexus	obcecado you make the call	00:41
josephnexus	and then after they answer	00:41
josephnexus	there is a button that appears to enable video	00:41
TomaszD	not really, there is an option to video call directly as well	00:41
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obcecado	where ?	00:42
* Aranel *yay! yay! It's downloading the update! teeworlds was the conflicting package. thanks to lcuk, slonopotamus, DocScrutinizer and other guys who helped me =)		00:42
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TomaszD	well, in the call menu	00:42
Arkenoi	did not help	00:42
Arkenoi	any other troubleshooting ideas?	00:42
TomaszD	troubleshooting for what	00:43
obcecado	i really cant find it	00:43
obcecado	im doing a call now, and i cant find the icon	00:43
Arkenoi	TomaszD, no media files are indexed	00:43
TomaszD	obcecado, open the keyboard to enter landscape mode	00:43
dmj726	why is the fiasco image 19 and the emmc 13?	00:43
TomaszD	dmj726, it doesn't matter, it's OK	00:44
TomaszD	Arkenoi, what is your situation, fresh flash?	00:44
Arkenoi	TomaszD, yep	00:44
TomaszD	emmc too?	00:44
obcecado	TomaszD: same options	00:44
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lcuk	Aranel, sure no problem, btw, pr4.7 was released :P	00:44
Arkenoi	no, just fiasco image	00:44
simoneb_	DrGrov: i think i got it ... my /opt has not been mounted. how could it be?	00:45
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TomaszD	obcecado, update the desktop client	00:45
jjmarin	PR1.2 is a shit !!!!	00:45
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Aranel	lcuk: damn.. I was freeing up some space for PR1.3.. I'll never get it done before pr7.0 :(	00:45
TomaszD	Arkenoi, see, that's where you failed :)	00:45
lcuk	heh	00:45
thresh	yeah flash emmc and lose all your data	00:45
lcuk	well done anyway :) as much as i moaned you persevered	00:45
thresh	nice choice :S	00:45
TomaszD	lose data? maybe back your data up and move it off the phone	00:46
TomaszD	it's easy...	00:46
thresh	not really	00:46
SpeedEvil	Always back up.	00:46
SpeedEvil	You can't easily drop your server down the toilet.	00:46
thresh	my nokla has more space than my every computer	00:46
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TomaszD	yes it is. You use the backup app, then move the backup folder to your desktop	00:46
TomaszD	move your pics and videos too	00:46
josephnexus	SpeedEvil: is that a challange?	00:46
thresh	backup app didnt back up all my music ;)	00:46
SpeedEvil	josephnexus: yes.	00:47
SpeedEvil	josephnexus: pics plz.	00:47
lcuk	in soviet russia, toilet drops on server	00:47
simoneb_	can anybody please tell me how the "/opt" line in /etc/fstab should look like?	00:47
TomaszD	thresh, sure but where did it say that it would	00:47
josephnexus	lcuk, pics or it didn't happen	00:47
josephnexus	:-P	00:47
Arkenoi	and volume buttons do not work in video player anymore	00:47
dmj726	why would I want the emmc image?	00:47
thresh	TomaszD: sure. still a FAIL to update.	00:47
lcuk	josephnexus, theres stories on dailywtf about server rooms inside toilets	00:47
lcuk	and floods	00:47
lcuk	so, sure	00:47
dmj726	...my phone just booted fine after flashing the other one	00:48
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TomaszD	Arkenoi, don't waste your time, backup, move backup and data, flash FIASCO, flash eMMC	00:48
dmj726	Am I missing something?	00:48
lcuk	simoneb_, how do you know /opt isnt mounted	00:48
lcuk	have oyu got far enough to get a ssh session?	00:48
simoneb_	lcuk: "find /opt" yields almost nothing	00:48
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lcuk	how are you typing "find /opt"	00:48
lcuk	on device itself?	00:48
simoneb_	lcuk: make that "-type f", and it's really nothing	00:48
TomaszD	dmj726, yes, you are not supposed to reboot the phone after flashing fiasco (-R flag)	00:48
simoneb_	yes, via ssh, as root	00:48
lcuk	or ssh session?	00:49
Arkenoi	TomaszD, do you imagine what it takes to do on a phone heavy loaded with stuff? it probably takes several hours of my time and i probably forget something	00:49
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lcuk	is the device functioning? ie booted visibly ok?	00:49
TomaszD	dmj726, re-flash without the flag, then flash emmc with the -R flag	00:49
Arkenoi	zillion application settings etc	00:49
TomaszD	Arkenoi, no right to complain if something fails if you can't take the time	00:49
simoneb_	lcuk: no, it isn't working well, it boots, i see the nokia logo, i don't see the welcoming video, i get to home screen but don't see letters (i see them as squares), etc.	00:49
Arkenoi	it should not fail, should it?	00:49
lcuk	:( simoneb_ sure, that does sound like /opt corruption	00:50
Arkenoi	the phone is not supposed to behave such way or to require hours to be spent on fixing things that should not break	00:50
TomaszD	...if you flash fiasco without the -R flag, then eMMC with the -R flag it will work fine	00:50
simoneb_	lcuk: well as a start i could try to mount it by hand	00:50
TomaszD	Arkenoi, I'm just trying to help you	00:50
Arkenoi	:-)	00:50
lcuk	since you have booted, could you pastebin the log of .... to me please	00:51
TomaszD	if you don't want to be helped then fine	00:51
lcuk	just finding file	00:51
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lcuk	simoneb_, just mounting it may not do you much good, im just finidng the log filename now - unforuntately if its run over what i think it has but then something has gone wrong you will need to flash most likely	00:52
lcuk	first/ ceck /home/opt	00:52
lcuk	check	00:52
lcuk	does it have contents	00:52
simoneb_	uhm, yes, /home/opt has stuff in it	00:52
Dr_Cain	oh hey, nokia software updater started working, just after I downloaded the image manually from tablets-dev >_>	00:52
* Dr_Cain downloads again		00:52
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lcuk	can you pastebin a recursive ls (private if you like)	00:53
lcuk	and the contents of /var/log/maemo-optify-boottime.log as well please	00:53
dmj726	why must the battery be fully charged to flash the mmc?	00:54
Dr_Cain	because it will be running off battery power during flashing	00:54
TomaszD	that's a dumb question, it's failsafe for dumb users	00:54
dmj726	...oh	00:54
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Dr_Cain	needs to be atleast 50%	00:55
lcuk	and simoneb_ one more thing, does /var/lib/maemo-optify-firstboot-do-not-clean-home-opt exist	00:55
dmj726	Okay, I wanted to make sure it wasn't something to do with calibrating the battery software	00:55
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simoneb_	lcuk: exists, at 0 bytes	00:55
lcuk	ok ta	00:56
pupnik_	i got no such file	00:56
lcuk	pupnik_, did you update to 1.2?	00:56
pupnik_	yeah upgraded	00:57
pupnik_	no reboot yet	00:57
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lcuk	sideways	00:57
pupnik_	ham didnt have an upgrade	00:57
lcuk	how did you not reboot?	00:57
Dr_Cain	ah there we go, updated	00:57
pupnik_	dunno	00:57
lcuk	ham closes most things so you cannot continue ?	00:58
pupnik_	kept running out of space and restarting	00:58
pupnik_	there was and is no pr1.2 upgrade visible in ham today	00:58
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pupnik_	but the packages are there	00:59
pupnik_	so apt-get upgrade installs them	00:59
Ikarus	pupnik_: not recommended though	01:00
GAN900	pupnik_, did you nuke the metapackage or something?	01:00
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pupnik_	i never found out the metapackage - what is it called	01:02
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lcuk	not recommended at all infact	01:03
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pupnik_	there was no OTA in ham for me. probably took the spooks too long to trojan	01:05
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arachnist	i've got 1.2	01:07
jjmarin	Pls Help: My N900 reboots trying upgrade PR1.2 with "apt-get -o dir::cache=/home/user/MyDocs/apt-archive-cache dist-upgrade". This is the message I've got before rebooting: Do you want to continue [Y/n]? Y \| Selecting previously deselected package maemo-optify-runonce. \| (Reading database ... 22923 files and directories currently installed.) \| Unpacking maemo-optify-runonce (from .../maemo-optify-runonce_0.10-32+0m5_all.deb) ... \| dokil	01:07
arachnist	via ham	01:07
jjmarin	I use "apt-get -o dir::cache=/home/user/MyDocs/apt-archive-cache dist-upgrade" from http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space#Listing_rootfs_space_on_your_device	01:08
jjmarin	jjmarin: any idea. I'm trying to upgrade the hole day. Using the UI I've got "operation failed"	01:09
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PhonicUK	€£$	01:12
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bobbyd	hi	01:13
bobbyd	I just flashed my n900 to PR 1.2 UK clean and I now I can't work out how to get the calendar widget back	01:14
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bobbyd	a, maybe Ive got to download it :)	01:14
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arachnist	barisione: did you make a backup before reflashing the device?	01:15
arachnist	barisione: was it a full backup?	01:15
bobbyd	arachnist: if you're talking to me, yes I did	01:15
arachnist	whoops	01:15
b-man	http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/british-scientist-becomes-first-human-infected-with-a-computer/ hehehe	01:15
bobbyd	I know it stores all installed apps, but I wanted to start clean	01:15
arachnist	bobbyd: well, there should be an option in the backup app to restore the applications	01:16
bobbyd	(apart from contacts) I've installed a crazy amount of stuff on this	01:16
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bobbyd	I'll have a look through the list anyway	01:17
bobbyd	thanks for reminding me	01:17
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bleeter	grrr, OTA won't work (insufficient space) and NSU keeps throwing a wobbly :/ lol	01:19
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hardaker	bleeter: how much did it tell you that it needed total?	01:19
javispedro	the new tmo -- you cannot even point users to bugzilla because they go there and write "MORONS!!!"	01:19
hardaker	(I didn't even try; I flashed as I knew it wouldn't ever have enough since 1.1.1 needed 90M and I had about 10)	01:19
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jjmarin	For reference: my problem was related with the package maemo-optify-runonce and I resolved with rm -rf /opt/* . Now it is installing :)	01:20
* javispedro wonders what are you doing		01:21
javispedro	if you just did that, well, backup and reflash, because all your apps are gone.	01:21
bobbyd	nope, can't find it anywhere	01:21
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bobbyd	is it part of the default install for you guys, under widgets on the desktop?	01:22
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javispedro	b-man: quite a smart guy. now start the countdown to him selling a firewall/antivirus system for an embedded OS whose in the wild virus count is 0 :)	01:23
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Arkenoi	how do i change volume keys function? now they are tied to zoom function	01:27
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shinkamui	yay	01:27
Arkenoi	so i cannot change volume at all	01:27
shinkamui	looks likke my break in opengles was due to having a half installed pr1.2 upgrade	01:28
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javispedro	Arkenoi: which application?	01:28
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Arkenoi	all of them	01:28
shinkamui	javispedro, thanks for the poke there	01:29
ioan	hi. any idea where the proxy settings for each connection are kept?	01:29
Arkenoi	if i press volume buttons in media player just nothing happens	01:29
shinkamui	I didn't think to make sure my packages were up to date	01:29
Arkenoi	for terminal i get font size change	01:29
shinkamui	just assumed the update worked	01:29
javispedro	shinkamui: actually, I wanted you to update package listings, if app mgr left you with a broken system then complain about it	01:29
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javispedro	(but not on that bug report ofc :P )	01:29
shinkamui	:-D	01:30
javispedro	Arkenoi: and on the desktop?	01:30
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hawai`i	Okay who wants to solve my new problem?	01:31
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hawai`i	Halted on boot at Nokia logo, R&D mod does not force continuation.	01:31
Arkenoi	on the desktop no effect as well	01:32
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javispedro	Arkenoi: reboot	01:33
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javispedro	http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/05/26/2050256/Video-Gamers-Have-Power-Over-Their-Dreams oh, I'd wish.	01:33
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Arkenoi	javispedro, no effect	01:36
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hawai`i	Nobody feels like diagnosing this with me?	01:37
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Arkenoi	well, if THIS thing was delayed to clean up bugs..	01:43
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hawai`i	Why the fuck doesn't it boot when R&D mode is enabled?	01:45
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Ikarus[N900]	hmmm, video jabber calls aren't allowed ? or is it actually checking if the other end supports it ?	01:46
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Robot101	Ikarus[N900]: it checks that the other end supports it, yeah	01:47
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javispedro	Robot101: btw, do you know if I could potentially call another resource of my own Jabber ID with the Maemo client? (off the top of your head, don't look it up, just an experiment I want to do)	01:53
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Robot101	javispedro: it's hardcoded out in telepathy at the moment, not for any very good reason but nobody really thought it through yet	01:54
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javispedro	ah, nevermind then :)	01:55
DocScrutinizer	Robot101: o/	01:55
Robot101	evening	01:55
bleeter	hardaker: it didn't	01:56
hardaker	ah	01:56
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opdf2	anyone else holding out on 1.2?	01:58
DocScrutinizer	eeeew 1.2	01:59
javispedro	ah... final user vs bugzilla interaction guys are going to have quite a lot of work	02:00
* anonuk fixed the hildon theme by copying /usr/share/themers/Default to /usr/share/themes/default! 90 back to working again :)		02:00
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* DocScrutinizer waits for 1.2.1 :-P		02:01
Ikarus[N900]	hrm search in app installer is missing in 1.2 ?	02:01
DocScrutinizer	type searkstring	02:02
wolf^	Ikarus, select "all categories" and type to match	02:02
DocScrutinizer	s/k/ch	02:02
javispedro	removing the menu item wasn't a good idea.	02:02
DocScrutinizer	not at all	02:02
Ikarus[N900]	wolf^: not working	02:02
DocScrutinizer	incredibly obscure	02:02
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Ikarus[N900]	9h just slow	02:02
javispedro	also I have to check if they still search into descriptions	02:03
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javispedro	because it seemed too fast to be searching in descriptions	02:03
Ikarus[N900]	also only package name not description it seems...	02:03
DocScrutinizer	and you can't select anymore descr/name	02:03
javispedro	bad, bad idea.	02:03
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: now that would be a bummer! :-((	02:03
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: yeah, but now it meets the gui design rules :-P	02:04
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javispedro	dunno -- seems like non-discoverable to me.	02:04
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Ikarus[N900]	dockane: while all other annoying 30 page scroll lists still lack search on type	02:05
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zaheerm	like email :)	02:05
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: "type anywhere to search/match" paradigma	02:05
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javispedro	see Ikarus point :)	02:05
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DocScrutinizer	aah EHIGHLIGHT	02:06
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Ikarus[N900]	yeah ENOTAB :P	02:06
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DocScrutinizer	ETRYAGAIN	02:07
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DocScrutinizer	:-)	02:07
javispedro	ERETRY	02:07
DocScrutinizer	oops	02:08
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javispedro	noo	02:08
javispedro	you're right.	02:08
DocScrutinizer	lol	02:08
Ikarus[N900]	hrm, also anyone know a better app to manage the applications menu, other then catorise I know none	02:09
lcuk	Ikarus[N900], on pr1.2 you can arrange single items	02:09
BCMM	Ikarus[N900]: have you updated to pr1.2 ?	02:09
lcuk	but not the kind of grouping	02:09
BCMM	rearranging is built it, but not subfolders	02:09
lcuk	you can move any item up to where you want it	02:09
BCMM	also, lcuk is faster than me	02:09
lcuk	just tap and hold on an icon	02:09
BCMM	maybe it's daytime in his timezone or something	02:09
DocScrutinizer	Ikarus[N900]: heard 1.2	02:10
DocScrutinizer	subfolders are a must though. So just another fail for 1.2	02:10
jatt	does vertical mode work with the latest maemo update	02:11
Ikarus[N900]	rearranging is nice and all but not ideal	02:11
Ikarus[N900]	guess I'll pick apart catorise	02:11
jatt	vertical in the maemo browser?	02:11
BCMM	jatt: portrait mode?	02:11
jatt	yes	02:12
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BCMM	jatt: if you mean portrait mode, it worked before, and in pr1.2 there is a GUI for it	02:12
DocScrutinizer	catorize and relatives all miss a simple way for user to arrange (even on a basis like which folder an app should go to) - and the categories of HAM/whatever are braindamages&useless	02:12
jatt	what is this gui? is there a virtual keyboard for the portrait mode?	02:12
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jjmarin	Finally, PR1.2 bricked my N900. Well done Nokia !!!!	02:14
DocScrutinizer	who needs a kbd for browsing? XP	02:14
anonuk	jjmarin: mine too , but i managed to fix it as there was a boot menu installed	02:15
jatt	e.g. to write search terms in google	02:15
anonuk	jjmarin: did it reboot in the middle of the update?	02:15
jjmarin	anonuk: no	02:15
DocScrutinizer	jatt:just klick the right add ;-P	02:15
mc_teo	hey	02:16
jatt	which is the biggest improvement in the new version? i haven't decided to upgrade yet	02:16
DocScrutinizer	jatt: congrats	02:16
* DocScrutinizer neither		02:16
brik	why not?	02:17
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* DocScrutinizer waits for 1.2.1 :-P		02:17
jjmarin	Tomorrow I'll bring it to the local Nokia care point	02:17
DocScrutinizer	1.2 eats your children and pets	02:17
brik	good I don't have children or pets then	02:17
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jatt	I am not sure if it pays off. I was expectimg a virtual kbd in portrait mode :)	02:18
DocScrutinizer	I don't have now, so I don't know how to feed it	02:18
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: it doesn't eat them, it just lets other people eat them! remember pr1.2 fixes world hunger!!	02:18
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DocScrutinizer	aaah, how tricky	02:18
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jjmarin	jjmarin: right it restart continouly, it show the keyboard menu no-hildonized and without any letter and the reboots.... :(	02:18
jatt	will be a new version for bugfixes?	02:19
DocScrutinizer	2017	02:19
mc_teo	hey	02:19
DocScrutinizer	though probably with usual dely it'll be 2019	02:19
mc_teo	is there a nice python sound library available for n900	02:19
BCMM	hmm	02:19
jatt	haha	02:19
javispedro	after all, as I predicted, PR1.2 was released in 2013	02:20
* BCMM is waiting for the next "get kicked for asking about" version		02:20
javispedro	when is PR1.3 going to be released?	02:20
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javispedro	hm.	02:20
jatt	after duke nukem forever is relaunched	02:20
DocScrutinizer	RElaunched	02:21
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DocScrutinizer	= v2.0	02:21
javispedro	either way, you really should upgrade to PR1.2 as we plan to replace all pr1.0 applications from repositories with viruses.	02:21
DocScrutinizer	lol	02:21
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DocScrutinizer	hasn't that been accomplished yet? WTF! another delay	02:22
mc_teo	lol	02:22
javispedro	we found it was the best fix for the entire qt4.6experimental debacle	02:22
mc_teo	is there a nice python sound library available for n900	02:22
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: your help with the exploding battery part of the virus is really appreciated.	02:22
DocScrutinizer	yw	02:22
javispedro	mc_teo: what do you mean for sound library?	02:23
DocScrutinizer	always a joy to contribute in a creative manner	02:23
javispedro	plain sound output?	02:23
javispedro	sound manipulation?	02:23
javispedro	decoding of mp3/aac files?	02:23
mc_teo	sound output mostly	02:23
javispedro	you can use pygame	02:23
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jjmarin	Maemo challenge: Build a cool 1.2 wall with N900 bricks !!!!	02:24
mc_teo	is that included with qtdev? javispedro	02:24
DocScrutinizer	did that with Freeruners ;-P	02:24
javispedro	mc_teo: oh, I think not.. :(	02:24
javispedro	mc_teo: are you using pyside/pyqt? I'm sure Qt will have some sane class for sound output.	02:25
mc_teo	i hope so	02:25
mc_teo	does gcc/g++ use much app space?	02:26
mc_teo	or should i stick to cross compiling on scratchbox?	02:26
javispedro	for on-device development? it's much more convenient to use a chroot.	02:26
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DocScrutinizer	mc_teo: ask speedevil / N900evil	02:27
cure`	so eh, people not really liking 1.2 yet or so?	02:27
lcuk	i liek it	02:27
cure`	havent reflashed/upgraded myself yet	02:27
* javispedro likes it too		02:27
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javispedro	well, had a battery-dead-in-the-morning problem this morning, but as usual I tend to blame me...	02:28
* lcuk lieks chocolate milk too		02:28
shinkamui	oh lord	02:28
shinkamui	anyone know how to fix the not enough space error in app manager when root has 82% in use, and I have over 90% on opt?	02:28
mc_teo	N900evil: hi	02:28
DocScrutinizer	I might possibly consider to give it a try, if I could go back to 1.1	02:28
javispedro	One more reason to love chocolate milk and hate Apple.	02:28
shinkamui	its not a total disaster, can install from the console, but i like to peruse the new apps..	02:28
xorAxAx	shinkamui: delete random files and pray	02:28
xorAxAx	"russian file roulette"	02:29
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DocScrutinizer	but a one-way ticket to doom isn't that appealing to me yet	02:29
xorAxAx	shinkamui: how many MB do you have available?	02:29
shinkamui	39.2m on root	02:29
shinkamui	170 on opt	02:29
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xorAxAx	thats a bit too few on root	02:29
xorAxAx	remove a few packages	02:30
shinkamui	dude, pre the upgrade, I was normally around 96% on root	02:30
xorAxAx	ah, you did the upgrade already?	02:30
shinkamui	anyway, I removed nokia maps to free up even that much space	02:30
shinkamui	and no help	02:30
xorAxAx	then i dont know	02:30
shinkamui	xorAxAx, yea, I upgraded	02:30
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shinkamui	this is trying to install a 41k app	02:30
xorAxAx	maybe you need to pay the HAM fee on ovi	02:30
shinkamui	its clearly just a problem with app manager	02:30
xorAxAx	"HAM+ 10 EUR"	02:31
shinkamui	WHAT	02:31
opdf2	how's 1.2 and erminig? This is my most important app	02:31
shinkamui	why do I have to pay ovi to use shit from extras	02:31
shinkamui	those douchers are charging me 15$ for nothing?	02:31
xorAxAx	you get a better HAM!	02:31
grishnav	damnit dammnit damnit!	02:31
shinkamui	I dont get the joke	02:31
grishnav	i forgot to save my upstart script for openvpn before I flashed	02:31
* grishnav funes		02:31
shinkamui	if its a joek	02:31
DocScrutinizer	xorAxAx: you're kidding!	02:32
shinkamui	if its legit, Im really confused	02:32
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tg	hm, this upgrade is really slow for me 60% in 3h	02:32
* shinkamui starts seeing stars		02:32
xorAxAx	DocScrutinizer: i am one of those who would also sell the "i'm rich" applications :)	02:32
DocScrutinizer	sure, thought that HAM+ is your idea	02:32
xorAxAx	i should apply for a position at nokia to increase revenue :)	02:33
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DocScrutinizer	nah, my idea to send the device in for service by flushing it down the toilet beats your HAM+ with hands tied back	02:34
* javispedro runs to patent office		02:34
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Milhouse	Seems like there might be a post PR1.2 release according to bug 6876, which is bloody good news.	02:37
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6876 Birthday appears in the day before	02:37
javispedro	Milhouse: oh, do not trust. we never got to see some the update containing some of the late bug fixes for diablo	02:37
javispedro	but more updates are to be expected.	02:38
* javispedro goes get a dyslexic shirt.		02:38
DocScrutinizer	introducing more nice lovely regressions	02:38
pigeon	hmm, weird, for some reasons my extras-devel repo url has become fremantle-1.2 (which doesn't exist) instead of fremantle, is that normal?	02:38
* DocScrutinizer starts to sell "3" patches for all those "fixed in 1.2" shirts out there		02:39
Milhouse	Would be nice if they just hit the annoying, apparently trivial bugs... something for the summer intern to work on.	02:39
javispedro	pigeon: no.	02:39
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pigeon	i see there is fremantle-1.2 for extras, but not extras-devel	02:39
javispedro	Milhouse: that one isn't trivial..	02:39
Milhouse	which one, bug 6876? Showing a birth date on the right day? Righto... ;)	02:40
* javispedro hates date manipulation		02:40
Milhouse	Wouldn't surprise me if the calendar has a cocked up leap year algorithm.	02:40
DocScrutinizer	Milhouse: you're not the first one suspecting this	02:41
Milhouse	BUT, the biggest failing is that this bug, which appears trivial, but even if not it's criminal for a calendar app to contain and not be picked up in testing, was opened in Dec 09... WTF?	02:42
javispedro	ah, time to repeat my story with eduroam	02:42
Milhouse	Makes you wonder how the prioritisation system works at Nokia - a browser that can't browse, SHIP IT!!!	02:42
javispedro	wake me up when the bug is two-three years old.	02:42
javispedro	as that is my personal record :)	02:43
pwnguin	Milhouse: well, they did fix USSD	02:43
pwnguin	which is kinda nice	02:43
Milhouse	was that just it's age, or how long it took to fix - reckon I can best that easy! :)	02:43
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Milhouse	pwnguin: yeah, seemed pretty necessary though in for people to use the device... then again showing dates in a calendar? Hmm... /rubs chin	02:44
pwnguin	its just birthdays, no?	02:44
Milhouse	I guess, although I somewhat distrust anything with such a basic failing so would be disinclined to trust Calendar with anything more important.	02:46
pwnguin	its not a failing, its a feature	02:46
pwnguin	they give you 24 hours to find a last minute present	02:46
Milhouse	:)	02:47
javispedro	you TRUST calendar???	02:47
pwnguin	well	02:47
javispedro	oh god.	02:47
pwnguin	i trust exchange which syncs the calendar	02:47
javispedro	didn't you get the "all appointments shown in the widget are pretty much randomly selected" issue	02:47
DocScrutinizer	pwnguin: fine, they obviously had to reflash the modem fw for that. Seems they introduced a bug this way, which kills the contacts app on certain contact specifics stored on the sim	02:47
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Milhouse	javispedro: yeah I know, what WAS I thinking! :)	02:47
tuliobaars	Hello, people!	02:48
javispedro	I really loved knowing that I would go on holiday on july. Of course I really hated missing my next final exam!!	02:48
Milhouse	javispedro: i did get some that showed up on the right date, but it was a bit random as to when they disappeared.	02:48
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Milhouse	javispedro: don't expried tasks now remain on the current day (was that a fix in this release or an outstanding issue?) must admit I've stopped using it because it's, well, sh1t.	02:49
DocScrutinizer	but MAJOR FAIL is: you can not go back to pr1.1 (or has that been fixed?)	02:49
Milhouse	docscrutinizer: think that's because of the radio isn't it? or something like that. probably should be allowed to regress though.	02:49
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: no. either way, I can only think of one reason to want to go back: keyboard and/or categorise, and all of them should be easy to overwrite.	02:49
Milhouse	s/regress/revert/g	02:50
infobot	Milhouse meant: docscrutinizer: think that's because of the radio isn't it? or something like that. probably should be allowed to revert though.	02:50
javispedro	so make that two reasons :P	02:50
pwnguin	i have to ask: how long ago was USSD introduced?	02:50
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DocScrutinizer	Milhouse: it IS because of modem FW. And it CAN NOT be reverted	02:50
Milhouse	pwnguin: in general or on the n900? about 24 hours ago for the latter, probably since the dawn of GSM for the former.	02:50
pwnguin	they seemed kinda surprised at the thought that people might use it	02:50
javispedro	pwnguin: you surprised? PAP stands for Plain Authentication Protocol. Yep -- the most simple of the protocols. Two years.	02:51
DocScrutinizer	Milhouse: as Nokia decided to integrate a bullshit nto the modem fw not allowing to downgrade	02:51
Milhouse	pwnguin: can't believe they're that stupid, so think that was just a cover for the lack of developent time/resources prior to launch.	02:51
javispedro	so One year for USSD codes which are way more complex is neat. Consider yourself lucky!	02:51
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pwnguin	im not sure what PAP is	02:52
pwnguin	or if ive ever used it =/	02:52
Milhouse	USSD codes have been around a lot longer than 1-2 years, surely	02:52
javispedro	aka the eduroam bug.	02:52
pwnguin	but im pretty sure that encryption is waaaaaaay harder than you're making it sound	02:52
Milhouse	USSD is all for PAYG stuff, right?	02:52
javispedro	encryption? authentication.	02:52
lcuk	barkeep, i'd like a tall glass of your strongest whiskey please.	02:52
lcuk	and leave me the rest of the barrel	02:53
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: IIRC it's been found it's possible to reflash the modem IIRC	02:53
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jaska	cask-strength by the pint	02:53
* javispedro gives lcuk some and invites him to the party		02:53
DocScrutinizer	USSD ?? you're kidding? it's part of 1980 GSM specs	02:53
lcuk	javispedro, which party	02:53
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javispedro	the complain party, of course! :)	02:53
pwnguin	Milhouse: USSD is used for more than PAYG. i saw a guy talk about his translation service that ran over USSD	02:53
pwnguin	DocScrutinizer: which is why i wonder, how do you find a modem that doesn't support it?	02:54
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Milhouse	pwnguin: right, just querying it's age - PAYG has been around for many years.	02:54
DocScrutinizer	USSD and its relative are used for controlling services since the beginning of (GSM) times	02:54
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Milhouse	Doc: Thought so.	02:54
lcuk	javispedro well its been interesting to see just how different people have made their filesystems since we last updated	02:55
DocScrutinizer	pwnguin: becuase it's a modem and not a phone?	02:55
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DocScrutinizer	who needs call redirect on busy, for a modem? :-o	02:56
pwnguin	DocScrutinizer: i guess that makes some amount of sense	02:56
pwnguin	heh	02:56
Milhouse	Question: Anyone using Google Mail with Nokia Messaging here?	02:56
Milhouse	(on the N900, obviously!)	02:56
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pwnguin	Nokia Messaging == telepathy?	02:56
pwnguin	or the email app?	02:56
Milhouse	Emai	02:56
Milhouse	Email	02:56
Milhouse	With Nokia Messaging you get push email from Google	02:57
pwnguin	i was using gmail by way of IMAP but for the last few months its refused to authenticate	02:57
pwnguin	probably in part because i changed my password last month	02:57
Milhouse	Hmmm... just wondering how many spam notifications you are getting on the device?	02:57
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pwnguin	none	02:57
Milhouse	or were	02:57
Milhouse	Shit, I get loads	02:57
pwnguin	well	02:58
pwnguin	are you using the exchange like tool?	02:58
javispedro	lcuk: but you know this, the more you keep a system without updating it, the more customized and hard to update it gets :)	02:58
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pwnguin	there's an MfE app that lets you set up which folders to care about	02:58
Milhouse	It seems that Nokia Messaging is monitoring "All Mail" rather than Inbox, so when spam arrives and is labeled as SPAM, I still get a new mail notification - and when you go to read it, it's not there (as it's been re-labeled)	02:58
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Milhouse	pwnguin: No, I'm using Nokia Messaging and have configured it with one Google Mail account/IMAP	02:59
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pwnguin	mfe ties into nokia messaging?	02:59
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pwnguin	ie, i have gmail and exchange in the mail app	02:59
Milhouse	pwnguin - maybe, not sure why I need MfE though	02:59
pwnguin	calendar	02:59
Milhouse	See above :)	03:00
pwnguin	mine works fine	03:00
lcuk	sure javispedro	03:00
Milhouse	Maybe when Calendar can handle dates better I'll revisit that. :)	03:00
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pwnguin	by dates you mean one niggling feature within contacts	03:00
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Milhouse	pwnguin: I'm saying it's a suspect app that falls down at it's most basic task	03:01
DocScrutinizer	btw push "thanks"on an arbitrary tmo post of DocScrutinizer if you like USSD, as without me asking konttori about it here in IRC it probably would have failed to get into 1.2 even	03:01
pwnguin	i just don't buy this "if its not visibly bug free i cant be sure that's all the bugs there are!"	03:01
SpeedEvil	Oh - USSD is in by default? Nice	03:01
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SpeedEvil	Well - if trivially obvious bugs are visible - it raises the question of the quality of the code, and the code review.	03:02
Milhouse	pwnguin: truth is I don't need to use it (Calendar) so won't make the effort when it's broken at such a basic level - obviously Nokia didn't make any effort to test it either	03:02
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: full ack	03:02
pwnguin	obviously nokia focused all their effort on microsoft exchange support	03:02
pwnguin	which is nice, because i have it at work	03:02
xorAxAx	jehovas witnesses infiltrated nokia and reprogrammed the calendar	03:03
Milhouse	Whereas nobody has birthdays :)	03:03
pwnguin	not on my phone they dont	03:03
Milhouse	Meanie :)	03:03
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xorAxAx	yes, no witness witnesses birthdays, and moving them by one day does effectively that :)	03:03
DocScrutinizer	xorAxAx: "apocalypse is always one day nearer than you think it is!" ?? ;-P	03:04
javispedro	aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh	03:04
pwnguin	anyways, im surprisd that i actually got to OTA update this time	03:04
javispedro	they removed the left/right swipe to go to next month in calendar!!!!	03:04
javispedro	that's it!! I'm buying an iPhone.	03:04
xorAxAx	haha	03:05
tuliobaars	Hello people! Is the n810 dead?	03:05
derf	Yes.	03:05
Mousey	long live the n810!	03:05
xorAxAx	tuliobaars: yes, it doesnt have an atom cpu	03:05
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GAN900	Howdy, Milhouse.	03:05
derf	I still use my N810 more than my N900.	03:05
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: 1.2 fanboy's penalty ;-P	03:06
pwnguin	does the n900 pair with BT keyboards?	03:06
DocScrutinizer	anyway it's absolutely amazing how the number of regressions seems way larger than the number of fixed bugs	03:07
ManoftheSea	pwnguin: it can	03:07
DocScrutinizer	which btw I seen happening in a similar way for OM SHR distro	03:08
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: interestingly enough they also kept changing Gtk<->Qt<->Enlightment didn't them? :)	03:08
DocScrutinizer	yep	03:08
xorAxAx	pwnguin: yes, except those sold by nokia (not kidding!)	03:08
SpeedEvil	javispedro: With not enough communication with community.	03:08
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xorAxAx	BTDT, failed miserably	03:09
Termana	good morning	03:09
DocScrutinizer	xorAxAx: WTF?!	03:09
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xorAxAx	i have a SU-8W lying here and it was unusable	03:09
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* DocScrutinizer wanders off, sobbing		03:10
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tuliobaars	a old history: wayfinder error in n810?	03:11
tuliobaars	any answer?	03:11
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lcuk2	javispedro, just spent sometime with user who did full complete ssu but ended up with boxes on bootup - he had no /opt mountbind at all! tho everything else had happened	03:12
javispedro	uh.	03:12
lcuk2	turned out his rcS-late and system-services package hadnt been updated because he had modified it (and its a conf file)	03:12
lcuk2	still dont know whether hes reflashing	03:13
lcuk2	think he might be ok actually	03:13
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: (SHR) nota bene SHR is somewhat like OM's mer	03:13
tuliobaars	do yoo know? when i'm goin to get a 7day trial it happens a network error! every tiem! why?	03:13
lcuk2	tuliobaars, a 7 day trial of what?	03:13
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DocScrutinizer	while OM2008.xx OM2009.xx were like PRx.y	03:14
b-man	sigh i wish people on talk.maemo.org would use the wiki more often :P	03:14
javispedro	lcuk2: some moments ago was someone here who said that "rm -r /opt" fixed his system =) I wonder what will happen when he tries to run any app.	03:14
tuliobaars	wayfinder, sorryu]	03:14
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javispedro	(well, no need to guess)	03:14
lcuk	javispedro, :O	03:14
javispedro	tuliobaars: ah, wayfinder is dead :(	03:14
lcuk	tuliobaars, the servers are offline :(	03:14
lcuk	my tracy misses Todd also	03:14
javispedro	tuliobaars: if you didn't download the maps previously you're gonna have a hard time..	03:15
lcuk	"at the traffic circle"	03:15
lcuk	its not the maps javispedro	03:15
lcuk	its the license	03:15
tuliobaars	i know, but i don't know how to use maemo mapper...but i still have the maps	03:15
javispedro	oh	03:15
javispedro	my license is still up to 2011	03:15
lcuk	cant enter nav mode unlicense	03:15
lcuk	d	03:15
tuliobaars	i need a 7 day trial, so I crack it even 7 day I need	03:15
javispedro	oh, so I won't be able to retrieve license file if I flash the n8x0.	03:16
* javispedro backups it.		03:16
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DocScrutinizer	forget online licence shit	03:17
DocScrutinizer	see where it gets you	03:17
pigeon	hmm, does anyone know the diff with account-plugin-haze and telepathy-extras?	03:17
pigeon	ah, never mind... found the diff, telepathy-extras is a meta package.	03:18
DocScrutinizer	date limited lincences for a software are criminal and insane	03:18
tuliobaars	i need that license or a good gps app	03:18
DocScrutinizer	locking down software to a hardware is exactly as criminal	03:19
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SpeedEvil	Date limited licenses - that are not explicitly sold as such are criminal.	03:19
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SpeedEvil	I have much less problem with explicitly sold stuff.	03:20
tuliobaars	sorry, i didn't understand	03:20
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DocScrutinizer	I pay for it - you give me the whole cake. I don't care watermarks, but licence for a limited time, or a particular device? NO THANKS	03:20
tuliobaars	crack it is a criminal action?	03:20
tuliobaars	okok, i just wanna resolve how can I activate the 7-day trial on Way finder!	03:21
tuliobaars	license failed: network error, pls try again later	03:22
tuliobaars	unknown error	03:22
DocScrutinizer	SCREWIT	03:22
joga	nice that the url clicking problem (when hw keyb is closed) in the terminal is fixed	03:23
DocScrutinizer	url clicking in terminal?? o.O	03:23
njsf_	re	03:23
* njsf_ is doing the restore after the 1.2 reflash		03:23
tuliobaars	no, on the MAP app on app list?!	03:24
SpeedEvil	you can click on URLs in osso-xterm	03:24
tuliobaars	but it doesn't give me any URL's	03:24
b-man	it's stupid to have a limited-time license for something you payed for :P	03:24
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: INCREEEDIBLE	03:24
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tuliobaars	I Agree	03:25
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* SpeedEvil has no 8810, so has little clue.		03:25
SpeedEvil	810	03:25
DocScrutinizer	b-man: see my rant above	03:25
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tuliobaars	so, how can i resolve this???	03:26
tuliobaars	editing any .conf ???	03:26
joga	I see maps has 3D now	03:26
javispedro	SpeedEvil: yea they sould three-year licenses.	03:26
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javispedro	*sold.	03:27
DocScrutinizer	b-man: if they revoke my right to use their software, can I then revoke my money I paid for it? :-P	03:27
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: In some cases, yes.	03:27
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: will vary depednign on the jurisdiction.	03:27
joga	...except it doesn't work with night mode	03:28
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tuliobaars	sorry, but yoo dunnot answer my question! (sorry, i'm dying tuse that GPS)	03:29
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: fsck jurisdiction, that's clearly a case to be settled by LART	03:29
SpeedEvil	Oh yeah - that reminds me - I haven't tried maps since boot.	03:29
SpeedEvil	tuliobaars: Well - sorry - we're not being paid to do this.	03:29
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b-man	DocScrutinizer: revoking your rights to use that software for no real reason when you payed for it is very unreasonable - i'd complain	03:30
SpeedEvil	tuliobaars: And seemingly nobody that's awake and active - maybe a dozen people - knows the answer.	03:30
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pigeon	hmm, for msn there are like 3 plugins, haze, butterfly, and pecan, anyone knows their diff?	03:30
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tuliobaars	ok, i wait. And, is there any Maemo 4 or N810 or OS2008 irc channel?	03:31
SpeedEvil	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/17/software_liability_analysis/ DocScrutinizer is interesting.	03:31
tuliobaars	exclusively	03:31
SpeedEvil	tuliobaars: Unfortunately not.	03:31
SpeedEvil	tuliobaars: It would have made sense to create one - perhaps back in september - but nobody did.	03:31
javispedro	tuliobaars: there's a forum though. http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=29	03:32
tuliobaars	how can I create an IRC channel?	03:32
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tuliobaars	ok, bybye	03:33
tuliobaars	see you later	03:33
joga	SpeedEvil: maps is more usable now, slowly getting somewhere..	03:33
SpeedEvil	Oooh. Did it have a 'satellite view' before?	03:33
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joga	no	03:34
joga	or uh, yeah	03:34
javispedro	yes.	03:34
joga	but no 3D or night	03:34
javispedro	it had 3d.	03:34
SpeedEvil	\Ah	03:34
* SpeedEvil finds another bug to file.		03:34
joga	and route search is a bit better (but why pink?)	03:34
SpeedEvil	I guess it's using yahoo tiles.	03:34
javispedro	probably nokia's own tileserver	03:35
pigeon	hmm funny, now i have two "Facebook" account types...	03:35
SpeedEvil	javispedro: probably	03:35
javispedro	maps.ovi.com iirc	03:35
SpeedEvil	javispedro: But the dataset looks very like landsat	03:35
javispedro	yep.	03:35
SpeedEvil	javispedro: here - which is 15m resolution - as used by yahoo here	03:35
SpeedEvil	And zooming in simply endlessly says 'downloading'	03:36
javispedro	in this country everyone uses the same tileset	03:36
joga	maep is a nice program, it's simple and fast to use and you can select from many maps, I noticed it also knows the public transport routes	03:36
javispedro	was provided by government for free iirc, also not satellite imaginary	03:36
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: (red sky) heya, the future of FOSS is bright :-)	03:37
joga	if I need to check where I am, it's a lot faster than maps but more useful than the location widget :)	03:37
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: don't sell a product, just sell a service	03:37
Pavlov	anyone know about the variant repository/key stuff on maemo?	03:37
SpeedEvil	joga: I use osm2go - but...	03:38
SpeedEvil	:)	03:38
* DocScrutinizer sets up lawsuit against nokia, failing to deliver bugfree 1.2 ;-P		03:38
DocScrutinizer	hey guys - just kidding. Don't hush :-D	03:41
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* ljp grumbles		03:41
javispedro	friendly note: "Users joining DocScrutinizet's class action will be kicked and permanently banned from #maemo"	03:42
javispedro	argh, sorry for the typo.	03:42
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* DocScrutinizer kicks javispedro for typo		03:43
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DocScrutinizer	ljp: things going wrong?	03:43
DocScrutinizer	btw to keep you: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/17/software_liability_analysis/	03:45
ljp	nope	03:45
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ljp	just.. if maemo5 was built on Qt, it'd have no bugs :)	03:46
jebba	there anyway to use the "main" camera for google video calls instead of the "small" one?	03:46
DocScrutinizer	actually it seems it's an unbearable risk to sell software products at all	03:46
djcaston	ljp, how is qt a part of 1.2? cause i know it plays a pretty big part	03:46
DocScrutinizer	jebba: given it's probably just a "1" vs a "0" somewhere in a strin like "...video0", I'd say you for sure could patch it	03:47
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jebba	heh. DocScrutinizer ya for sure like that somehow... But if there was a normal way to do it....	03:47
DocScrutinizer	a lil more normal would be to swap the device names	03:48
DocScrutinizer	in /dev/* or whatever	03:48
jebba	that might lead to other problems though, like opening the cover would trigger for wrong device.	03:48
DocScrutinizer	sane method would be a decent GUI to select on video input	03:49
jebba	ya exactly. :)	03:49
DocScrutinizer	jebba: (other problems) exactly	03:49
DocScrutinizer	nice catch to open the cam cover and then take a shot of your own face XP	03:50
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jebba	hah	03:51
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DocScrutinizer	jebba: synthesis: patch that to "2" in telepahty/whatever, and use a symlink you easily can change to whatever meets your needs	03:51
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javispedro	hm	03:51
jebba	perhaps just a dbus command will do it	03:52
javispedro	I kinda remember a config file for choosing the camera	03:52
javispedro	but that was camera-ui iirc	03:52
DocScrutinizer	damn, so the mirror shot cam is no fictive joke? \o/	03:53
* DocScrutinizer mumbles gconftool + another few similarly nasty swearwords		03:53
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opdf2	If I don't have enough rootfs space for OTA, will it prevent me from DL in the beginning, or after a long download?	03:55
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DocScrutinizer51	beginning	03:57
SpeedEvil	Hmm. Why might tcpdump say:	03:57
SpeedEvil	tcpdump -i wlan0 dst 80	03:57
SpeedEvil	tcpdump: WARNING: can't create rx ring on packet socket 3: 92-Protocol not available	03:57
shinkamui	well	03:57
shinkamui	you're better off than I am	03:57
shinkamui	I have plenty of space	03:57
shinkamui	but appmanager wont let me download even a 41k app	03:57
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shinkamui	every freeking ota update leads to some stupid little problem, usually one thats not big enough to warrant a reflash	03:58
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javispedro	oh.. aisleriot solitaire with clutter/3D vista-like animations! port port port !	03:59
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: strange	03:59
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opdf2	anyone else get a quick error message during OTA?	04:00
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jebba1	DocScrutinizer i dont see anything in gconf that is relevant	04:04
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opdf2	k looks like downloading started with ~47 mb free rootfs	04:08
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DocScrutinizer	jebba1: was just a blind guess	04:24
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* ShadowJK ponders how long to delay updating		04:26
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: Worked for me with no problems.	04:27
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spinningcompass	What's the /dev entry for the SHDC external memory card of the Nokia N810?	04:31
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SpeedEvil	How can I get the media player to output through the video adaptor to an audio device?	04:53
SpeedEvil	That is - the L and R stereo are plugged in	04:53
SpeedEvil	it stays in speaker mode	04:53
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DocScrutinizer51	humm	04:56
DocScrutinizer51	short the yellow rca jack	04:56
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil:	04:57
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opdf2	cool 1.2 installed	05:00
opdf2	backup app makes it so easy to reinstall apps	05:01
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DocScrutinizer51	though I have to admit I don't understand why it doesn't recognize the AV cable as just that, an AV cable - and switches to AV mode delivering audio and video to the 3.5mm receptacle	05:02
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MNX1024	Anyone tried meego out yet?	05:03
microlith	that reminds me	05:03
* microlith fires up the aspire one		05:04
DocScrutinizer51	anyway shorting the video/mic ring to gnd (yellow RCA) should signal a plain headphone	05:04
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: yeah - I remembered the schematic, and did that.	05:04
LiraNuna	woot PR1.2	05:05
LiraNuna	anyone noticed they have revised the touch interface?	05:06
LiraNuna	you can no longer swipe to open top panels :(	05:06
LiraNuna	must be a tap	05:06
microlith	top panels?	05:07
LiraNuna	application dropdown panel	05:07
LiraNuna	and global one	05:07
microlith	oh	05:07
microlith	didn't know it responded like that	05:08
microlith	I've always just tapped	05:08
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* microlith shoves meego into his ubuntu VM		05:08
skynets	DocScrutinizer, what? class action lawsuit?	05:08
LiraNuna	I liked swiping, it felt more natural	05:08
LiraNuna	as if you "pull" the menu down	05:08
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microlith	LiraNuna: yeah, I can see that. Seems like it would be more useful with a capacitive screen though	05:09
DocScrutinizer51	skynets: don't take everything you read for a true fact	05:09
LiraNuna	it used to work fine, they "fixed" it, it seems	05:09
skynets	ok so its only small claims?	05:09
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LiraNuna	any more 'secret fixes' on PR1.2?	05:12
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skynets	im still getting wrong times	05:13
skynets	when i recieve smses	05:13
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opdf2	anyone also getting problems with shortcutd in 1.2?	05:36
pigeon	hmm since i upgraded to 1.2, i started getting smses from this "My Nokia" thing... anyone knows if that will cost me? :)	05:37
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pupnik_	2 euro and i tell u the answer	05:38
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pigeon	right... silly me, it's mentioned in the terms and conditions of My Nokia...	05:40
pigeon	thanks	05:40
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opdf2	hmmm are there updated repos?	05:52
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rockydd	anyone is using maemo mapper? I have a problem to use google maps	06:03
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hardaker	my qt mail checking application is much nicer under 1.2, but they screwed up the highlight font.	06:34
hardaker	it's now dark on dark	06:34
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greenfly	hmmm CPU constantly pegged (xorg and rtcom-message-ui) after PR1.2 update	06:50
dougt_	is thumb code still supported w/ the 1.2 ROM on the n900s?	06:52
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Ikarus	hrm, no one yet wrote a little nagios desktop applet for the N900 ?	07:12
asj	Ikarus: have you tried magios?	07:12
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Ikarus	you mean maegios	07:13
Ikarus	doesn't quit seem to embrace the style I want	07:13
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asj	why do people ask "Is there an app for X in maemo" when they want to say "I've tried app X and I [don't like it\|it doesn't do what I want\|it looks ugly] is there anything else?"	07:14
Ikarus	asj: no, I just found it and looked at it :)	07:14
iPeter-	how to put video on skype call?	07:14
Ikarus	asj: up to that point I believed maegios was just a teaser as the google result implied	07:15
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asj	Ikarus: I'm not picking on your alone, it's just happended a couple times in the last few days	07:15
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iPeter-	I found, nothing anymore	07:16
Ikarus	ah well, got to run, work and all, meh	07:17
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ZogG_N900	hey	07:24
ZogG_N900	so meego core for N900 is ready )	07:25
ZogG_N900	hope some test UI is comming soon	07:25
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iPeter-	Hey, i found "an-droid theme for n900" from "AppWatch" ther was repository history and downloaded it from that way. Now i cant find it from anywhere to give it to my friend	07:35
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opdf2	finally I can delete new emails	07:35
iPeter-	Is there any way to refresh mediaplayer, it doesnt regonize my vids or music	07:39
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MiXu-	iPeter-: It'll take a few minutes	07:46
iPeter-	booted phone and removed battery, worked.	07:47
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* RST38h yawns		08:14
RST38h	EHLO HUMANS	08:14
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Termana	RST38h, HELLO ROBOT	08:15
Termana	sudo make me a sandwich	08:15
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Cy8aer	Termana: http://en.tiraecol.net/modules/comic/comic.php?content_id=88	08:16
Termana	Cy8aer, heh :P I hadn't seen that one	08:18
RST38h	DESTROY DESTROY	08:19
* tekojo tickles RST38h with a feather		08:21
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RST38h	OMG, it has been 8 hours and POP3 account still works	08:29
Stskeeps	modest was fixed?	08:29
Stskeeps	scary shit	08:29
RST38h	Stskeeps: hush, don't scare it off =)	08:29
Xisdibik	morning Stskeeps	08:29
Stskeeps	morn	08:30
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RST38h	Stskeeps: keyboard language switch still broken though =	08:30
Stskeeps	i'd say hack it but that part isn't oss..	08:30
Stskeeps	:P	08:30
RST38h	Actually, it is easily hackable	08:30
Xisdibik	not sure if this was with the update, or just a fluke or something i changed long ago, but forgot now, When i reply to an email in Modest, it has the original message and the cursor is on the front part of it. and I dont want that.	08:31
RST38h	I have found the gconf value that sets the hw keyboard layout	08:31
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RST38h	changing it from "en" to "ru" and back does the trick	08:31
Xisdibik	Stskeeps: do you know if there is a way to disable including the original message in a reply email in modest?	08:31
RST38h	Now only need to find a way to listen to keyboard events, globally	08:31
Stskeeps	Xisdibik: no idea, my general opinion is that modest is too broke to fix	08:31
Stskeeps	:P	08:31
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Xisdibik	Stskeeps: lol	08:32
RST38h	Anyways, work.	08:32
Xisdibik	anyone else know if that can be disabled in modest?	08:32
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* lucent eyeballs Maemo 5 10.2010.19-1.002 update @ 113.6MB		08:35
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tybollt	lala	08:39
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Corsac	ok, video call between empathy and n900 fails with “codec negotiation failed”	08:42
Corsac	too bad	08:42
tybollt	you need to call in a mediator	08:42
Corsac	:)	08:42
tybollt	negotiate a truce	08:43
tybollt	;)	08:43
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tybollt	Corsac: anyway if you install extras codec - does that help?	08:43
Corsac	I have them installed, it doesn't seem to work	08:44
tybollt	:-/	08:44
Corsac	afaiui it uses farsight on the n900 side?	08:45
tybollt	I have no idea sorry	08:45
Termana	Corsac, thats your problem	08:45
Termana	you need normalsight	08:45
Termana	otherwise its unseeable	08:46
Corsac	gnagnagna	08:46
tybollt	ja	08:46
Termana	:P	08:46
tybollt	farTsight... gets rather smelly too	08:46
tybollt	:(	08:46
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tybollt	ok this is silly :)	08:46
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Corsac	erf	08:49
Corsac	http://paste.debian.net/75007/	08:50
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Stskeeps	what did you expect, theora? ;)	08:51
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Corsac	Stskeeps: yes	08:53
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Stskeeps	Corsac: was it you who was into xfce4 on moblin?	08:54
Corsac	http://www.tester.ca/2010/05/25/n900-video-calls-skype-too/ seems to say that it's h264 only	08:54
Corsac	Stskeeps: yes	08:54
Corsac	well	08:54
Corsac	depends on what you mean by “into”	08:54
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Stskeeps	well, there was someone who was maintaining packages of xfce4 somewhere :P	08:55
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Corsac	hhm, then it might be sofar	08:56
Corsac	I maintain Xfce packages in Debian, but didn't do anything for moblin	08:56
Stskeeps	ah	08:56
Stskeeps	had to put it in context :)	08:56
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pigeon	Corsac: oh, thanks.	08:57
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Corsac	for? h264 stuff?	08:57
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pigeon	Corsac: for maintaining xfce :)	08:57
Corsac	ha :)	08:57
Stskeeps	Corsac: preparing my n810 port of meego with xfce4 atm for first public .ks release :P	08:57
pigeon	i use debian and xfce :)	08:58
Corsac	Stskeeps: woot	08:58
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Stskeeps	still some way to go to M0 but stil..	08:58
Corsac	Stskeeps: I plan to look at the 1.0 meego core to put on the touchbook, too, so that'll mean Xfce until there's a way to do GL stuff on it	08:58
Corsac	so I guess you ks might be helpful too :)	08:59
tybollt	bop @ Stskeeps	08:59
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tybollt	Stskeeps: KDE ftw!!!!1111	08:59
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Stskeeps	Corsac: managed to ask to get 'extra' built for ARMv5 and ARMv7 so	08:59
lucent	I haven't completed an update of my N900 to PR1.2 yet, was there an improvement to the quality of front web cam capture?	08:59
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microlith	lucent: well, they enabled skype video call support so I hope they did	09:00
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Corsac	hmmh, not really sure	09:01
Corsac	I didn't really see a difference, tbh	09:01
Corsac	Stskeeps: thanks :)	09:01
lucent	I hope this upgrade works with HAM, hardly any free space on my N900 rootfs, after following the advice to free up space	09:02
Corsac	did you disable the extras repositories?	09:03
Corsac	grmbl, I don't see why telepathy framework can't use any of the available gstreamer codecs	09:03
lucent	Corsac: ^_^ yes I did	09:04
lucent	it won't bother me too much if this operation fails	09:04
lucent	my last resort is familiar to me, I will re-flash	09:04
lucent	somehow I hoped the upgrades would be less than 40MB	09:05
Corsac	it's 110M	09:05
Corsac	but the total occupied space is much less than that	09:06
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lucent	HAM did not complain when I confirmed that I want to attempt the upgrade, does that imply it has enough space to store the downloaded upgrade?	09:06
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lucent	i.e. I have say 40MB free on rootfs, using HAM the upgrade will be 110M as you say	09:07
lucent	where ... does the information go if not to rootfs?	09:07
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microlith	eMMC	09:09
microlith	the root space is mostly a buffer, all the packages and whatnot are stored on the eMMC where there's plenty of space -if- you use HAM	09:09
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microlith	using apt-get will hurt quick	09:10
tybollt	huh	09:10
tybollt	the location of a package is - of course -not mandated by what installer you use	09:10
tybollt	that's silly	09:10
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tybollt	s/mandated/decided/	09:11
microlith	HAM is aware of the eMMC partitions, and uses them	09:11
microlith	apt-get acts like it does on any Linux system	09:11
tybollt	?	09:11
microlith	it'll pull the packages down into /var/cache/apt/archive	09:11
tybollt	it's in the package itself where it'll get installed	09:11
microlith	and eat your rootfs space	09:12
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microlith	this has nothing to do with -install- time	09:12
microlith	it's all the download before install	09:12
tybollt	jaja	09:12
* microlith breaks networkmanager		09:13
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Tuukka	Anyone using mobile hotspot app? Does it work well?	09:21
bleeter	Funny thing about trying to use NSU under Win7 64bit, trying to get it working gave me the time to remove enough packages to get the update OTA going :)	09:21
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lucent	Tuukka: I'm wary of changing kernels	09:21
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Tuukka	What about Joiku spot it doesn't need a modified kernel, does it?	09:22
tybollt	no	09:23
tybollt	it does not	09:23
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tybollt	bleeter: it plain does NOT work in Windows 64 bit	09:24
Tuukka	Does bluetooth tethering work phone to phone?	09:25
bleeter	tybollt: I kinda figured that. The giveaway was iirc 'option 3' in the Win7 64bit tips and tricks doc page.	09:27
bleeter	but felt the need to give it one shot just the same :P	09:27
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aboyer	is there a package that i can install in scratchbox that will give me the OMAP Graphics SDK devel files?	09:32
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aboyer	i'm refering to this thing: http://software-dl.ti.com/dsps/dsps_public_sw/gfxsdk/3_01_00_06/index_FDS.html	09:34
Stskeeps	well, what file specifically do you eed?	09:34
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aboyer	kernelbuffer.h	09:35
aboyer	i'm trying to compile the bc-cat kernel module to perform opengl texture streaming	09:35
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aboyer	and this bc-cat module depends on OMAP Graphics SDK and OMAP Linux PSP	09:35
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Stskeeps	aboyer: don't think we have it.. any path associated?	09:37
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Stskeeps	it might be in kernel itself	09:38
aboyer	Stskeeps: drm/mrst/pvr/services4/include/kernelbuffer.h	09:38
aboyer	if it was in the kernel then there would be 10 devices /dev/bc-cat0 - /dev/bc-cat9	09:39
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aboyer	and those are not present on pr 1.1.1	09:39
aboyer	are they there on pr1.2 perhaps?	09:39
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aboyer	* actually the devices should be /dev/bccat0-9	09:40
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Stskeeps	aboyer: check kernel source, it would be in drivers/gpu/pvr	09:40
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aboyer	it's not there.. checked already, that is why i'm asking	09:41
Stskeeps	sure?	09:41
aboyer	all i have in there are Kconfig, Makefile and a tools directory	09:41
Stskeeps	eh :P	09:41
Stskeeps	sec	09:41
Stskeeps	drivers/gpu/pvr/kernelbuffer.h	09:42
aboyer	can you tell me what package i need to install to get that?	09:43
Stskeeps	grab the kernel source package from repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0	09:43
aboyer	ok, and then dump it in /usr/src in scratchbox?	09:44
* aboyer is new to kernel hacking		09:44
Stskeeps	wiki documentation should help	09:44
aboyer	ok, thx for your help	09:44
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Corsac	hmhm, when taking pictures with ctrl+shift+P, where are the png stored?	10:00
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Corsac	ha, MyDocs/.images/Screenshots	10:02
Khertan	/home/user/MyDocs/.images/screenshot	10:02
Khertan	if i remember well	10:02
Khertan	Hi All !	10:02
Corsac	yeha thanks :)	10:02
Khertan	a bit late :)	10:02
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parim	is it possible to mount a windows file share on maemo 4?	10:03
Appiah	is there samba support? then yes	10:04
Appiah	oh wait	10:04
* pupnik still surviving after dist-upgrade		10:05
pupnik	what is the OTA metapackage name for pr1.2	10:05
Appiah	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=2487&page=2 parim	10:05
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ruskie	pupnik, same as for the rest... fremantle-generic-pr or something like that	10:06
ruskie	hmm seems like I'll be rolling my own kernel	10:07
pupnik	ty	10:07
johan_	why ruskie	10:07
ruskie	because jebba isn't rolling his anymore and the power-kernel is worthless to me	10:08
parim	thanks so much Appiah	10:08
pupnik	hmm that installs addnl packages over dist-upgrade	10:08
pupnik	how do i delete all those -eses -fifi -esmx etc packages?	10:08
ruskie	I don't need overclocking and all the rest... I just want the same kernel with the extra stuff enabled	10:08
ruskie	pupnik, you can't	10:09
ruskie	pupnik, they are always installed	10:09
ruskie	and have been since forewer	10:09
ruskie	erm forever	10:09
pupnik	ah ok	10:09
ruskie	it would require package modification to get rid of all the language packs	10:09
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ruskie	johan_, basically I want fbcon NAT, ppp, pptp and a few other things on it	10:10
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tybollt	ehr there - that's better :)	10:12
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ruskie	:)	10:12
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tybollt	ruskie: isn't there an "advanced user kernel" in the repo's for that olready?	10:12
ruskie	tybollt, yeah the power kernel that has way to many features(overclocking being one of them)	10:13
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hrw	morning	10:13
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pupnik	ruskie: and is rather flaky talking to X	10:15
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ruskie	pupnik, fun... basically I just want a basic kernel with extra modules that most people might find usable maybe I'll roll a few kernels... atleast a fbcon and non-fbcon ones for sure	10:19
tybollt	overclocking	10:19
* tybollt FACEDESK		10:19
ruskie	tybollt, agreed	10:20
Stskeeps	and kexec	10:20
Stskeeps	:P	10:20
ruskie	kexec isn't a bad idea if it works	10:20
pupnik	how bout hacking a console or single-user runmode ruskie	10:20
ruskie	pupnik, already have that ;)	10:20
pupnik	so i can get a shell when i reboot	10:20
tybollt	single mode runmode?	10:20
pupnik	do want!	10:20
tybollt	huh?	10:20
tybollt	just boot w/ init=/bin/bash ;P	10:21
ruskie	nope	10:21
ruskie	/bootmenu.sh	10:21
ruskie	boot with open keyboard	10:21
ruskie	and it will start that	10:21
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ruskie	I have a basic one there	10:21
pupnik	mm? ty i install bootmenu	10:21
ruskie	starts up dsme and ssh and exec /bin/sh	10:21
ruskie	pupnik, it's my own creation not the bootmenu from the repos	10:21
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ruskie	I need to update it and refine it...	10:22
ruskie	I guess I can post it to my wiki page	10:22
pupnik	ok. very important utility	10:22
pupnik	i am getting many "Internal error. Application XYz closed" atm	10:23
pupnik	SIM gone, web gone, conversations, phone, applets gone	10:23
pupnik	but terminal survives :)	10:24
pupnik	so if i reboot without console i will have to flash via usb, which is dodgy/damaged :)	10:24
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pupnik	ahh good web restarts	10:25
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ruskie	pupnik, well bootmenu.sh does require fbcon in my case	10:26
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pupnik	i have titans kernel atm	10:27
ruskie	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie#Bootmenu	10:27
ruskie	you probably do want to modify and update for your own device	10:27
ruskie	it's currently very hackish to my own device	10:27
defragger	is it easy to port debian packages to maemo? and is there a good detailed howto about that?	10:27
pupnik	right. ty	10:27
ruskie	defragger, generally use etch repos for deb-src in sdk then just apt-get source package	10:27
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ruskie	pupnik, the only problem is that the kernel lacks a good keyboard map for the keyboard	10:28
ruskie	pupnik, so sym keys don't work	10:28
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ruskie	pupnik, basically that bootmenu.sh is hacked from existing init/event scripts ;)	10:28
pupnik	very interesting. ty	10:29
defragger	ruskie: ive done that, and what do i have to do with the source top build a package for maemo?	10:29
ruskie	defragger, dpkg-buildpackage	10:29
ruskie	more or less	10:29
defragger	ruskie: i see, i will try that thx :)	10:30
ruskie	pupnik, also not sure if I have a usable network connection on that	10:30
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ruskie	frankly haven't given much thought to it so far	10:31
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ruskie	I did use it a few times but the lack of sym keys is more than annoying	10:31
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ghostcube	morning, anyone maybe got the link for the moverootfs script?	10:31
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ghostcube	if not i will search on maemo.org :D	10:31
pupnik	mhm. work to do...	10:32
skyscraper	hi	10:32
skyscraper	ive a question	10:32
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defragger	ruskie: what is meant by that: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: debhelper (>= 7) flex texi2html?	10:32
skyscraper	i have read its possible to connect external mic to n900 via yellow plug from videocable?! can i use it to for auxillary in like from cd player line out?	10:33
Stskeeps	for those interested in MeeGo on N810, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=681902&postcount=84	10:33
ruskie	defragger, it wants debhelper v7 or above, flex and texi2html	10:33
skyscraper	*too	10:33
defragger	i see	10:34
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ruskie	defragger, you sure you're using the etch sources?	10:34
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lucent	uh-oh	10:35
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lucent	post-PR1.2 my N900 is endlessly rebooting	10:35
skyscraper	no one knows?!	10:36
tybollt	lucent: flash it bro	10:36
* lucent facepalms		10:36
tybollt	don't fucking facepalm - just flash your device :)	10:36
lucent	ha yeah okay.	10:37
defragger	uhm i dont know, i need to take a look, installed the system yesterday	10:37
tybollt	lucent: I believe flashing is there for these types of situations	10:37
pupnik	i believe console mode is	10:37
skyscraper	lol my n900 reboots too, sometimes - after pr12l	10:37
lucent	I mean post-install, directly after	10:38
lucent	I've flashed before but I wish I could avoid it if possible	10:38
skyscraper	hm. ota or nsu?	10:38
tybollt	skyscraper: by any chance ... cause you typed reboot?	10:38
lucent	OTA here	10:38
defragger	ruskie: where can i see the source list? /etc/apt/sources.list??	10:38
zlimvos	weird i just enabled again extras-devel and i got an error "IP 92.122.216.179 not found"	10:39
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skyscraper	no @tybolt - testing some media player and screen rotation and then blackscreen white led. restarted without asking for my pin again	10:39
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ruskie	defragger, should be	10:39
skyscraper	does no one know anything about audio line in	10:40
skyscraper	??	10:40
defragger	ruskie: uhm there are only maemo sources ...	10:40
defragger	i had to add these:	10:40
defragger	deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ etch main non-free contrib	10:40
defragger	deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ etch main non-free contrib	10:40
defragger	right?	10:40
skyscraper	hm :(	10:41
skyscraper	need to test it myself?!	10:41
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skyscraper	can i destroy anything when connecting a mp3player or stl to yellow plug from video cable?	10:42
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ruskie	defragger, just deb-src	10:42
tybollt	ehr	10:42
ruskie	defragger, you don't want deb	10:42
tybollt	that's an audio out innit - not in?	10:42
defragger	i see	10:42
skyscraper	thats in, too - the standard headphone has microphone too?	10:43
ghostcube	hmmm skype video call with mac doesnt work damn	10:43
ghostcube	-.-	10:43
skyscraper	http://www.google.com/m/url?cd=1&channel=unibox&client=ms-nokia-maemo&ct=res&ei=tCL-S-juMY2AnQOur6R0&oi=blended&q=http%3A%2F%2Fsw.nokia.com%2Fid%2F81ba2105-f16d-4c2b-a958-542ede07c7bc%2FNokia_AV_Hardware_Interface_Specification_v1_0_en.pdf&resnum=1&sa=X&ved=0CAkQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEwGDGG_Uf6aPD7R36OTywcB8Bj9A	10:44
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skyscraper	@tybollt	10:44
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tybollt	skyscraper: that's a big doco	10:46
skyscraper	wait	10:46
tybollt	anyway does it say in there the thing can be used for audio in too?	10:46
skyscraper	http://shelbinator.com/2008/05/04/n95-external-microphone/ is the same for n900	10:47
skyscraper	yes the document says 'mono line in'	10:48
RST38h	Anyone knows if I should change Extras-Testing and Extras-Devel from fremantle to fremantle-1.2?	10:48
hrw	RST38h: only extras exists in two forms	10:48
RST38h	hrw: Ah, ok	10:48
hrw	RST38h: testing and devel are for latest	10:48
RST38h	good to know	10:48
Appiah	~PR1.2	10:49
infobot	hmm... pr1.2 is available since early Tuesday morning. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/ -- see ~flashing for how to update	10:49
lucent	tybollt: could use a refresher, my memory not so good... what is the eMMC? I'm looking at the firmware images page and am confused about whether I must flash the eMMC or not?	10:49
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Appiah	~flashing	10:50
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infobot	[flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	10:50
tybollt	lucent: emmc is where you have you pr0n	10:50
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tybollt	lucent: nand is where the OS is	10:50
tybollt	lucent: flash the nand	10:50
tybollt	not the emmc	10:50
tybollt	that way you don't lose the pr0n	10:50
tybollt	WIN	10:50
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elstupidos	lol i love that explanation	10:51
skyscraper	have to write "klausur" now.... afk, maybe off when connection times out	10:51
tybollt	Yes	10:52
tybollt	a mustached german named "klaus" is very typical for pr0n movies	10:52
skyscraper	later back!	10:52
skyscraper	klausur is at school, lol	10:52
Scelt	tybollt: I guess it is also mustached german Klaus in the band named The Scorpions	10:53
defragger	ruskie: do i have to use apt-get source on x86 or ARMEL?	10:53
ruskie	defragger, you are doing everything on armel... atleast I do it	10:53
defragger	ruskie: i see, last question whats that: GPG error: http://ftp.de.debian.org etch Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory'	10:53
tybollt	RST38h. hrw: Funny how this 1.2 thing for fremantle is not mentioned on http://repository.maemo.org/, don't you think? :-\|	10:54
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ruskie	defragger, add the relevant keys using apt-key iirc	10:55
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ghostcube	woah what is the latest europe firmware file again )	10:57
* johnsu01 wonders what it would take to rearrange the keys on the on-screen keyboard		10:57
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johnsu01	why on earth are the backspace and enter keys lower than the rest	10:57
ghostcube	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin ??	10:58
CLaX0	Hi all, a quick question concerning the fremantle sdk	10:58
CLaX0	They seem to have changed the address of it in the repo	10:58
lucent	ghostcube: you too?	10:58
CLaX0	So I get a 404 when installing	10:58
CLaX0	How do I change the repo address? It's not a in the python script I got	10:58
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biston	Good morning. I've been reading lately in so many places that the MeeGo project dropped support for the N900 device. But looking at http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/images/meego-n900-open-armv7l/, where the images for N900 are supposed to be, we can notice that the images have been updated to v1.0 on May 25th. Did anyone try these images? do they include an interface ?	10:59
lucent	ghostcube: you can be sure following the process at http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	10:59
CLaX0	I mean no the repo address, but rather the resource within it	10:59
ghostcube	dam i removed some files, and have killed my themes	10:59
lucent	biston: who what now?	10:59
biston	i mean, im confused, it seems that N900 are still supported	10:59
lucent	try #meego ?	10:59
Stskeeps	biston: it isn't a nokia product, it is a meego.com thing	11:00
biston	yea :p good point	11:00
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biston	i didn't know the chan existed	11:00
Stskeeps	biston: n900 support isn't going anywhere, n900 is the reference platform for ARM on meego	11:00
Stskeeps	support as in 'something that makes it work'	11:00
biston	ah	11:00
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biston	i'll see what they have to say about this on #meego	11:01
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Stskeeps	biston: wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 explains a little more about our wor	11:02
Stskeeps	k	11:02
biston	reading	11:03
defragger	ruskie: what options do i have to use with that apt-key? i hate debian :D	11:03
tybollt	Stskeeps: how 'free' is meego though? Will there ever be like ... 'snapshots' etc?	11:03
tybollt	(I can't see how that'd be sustainable granted nokia and intel wanting to make money out of this :)	11:04
Stskeeps	tybollt: there's supposed to be weekly or daily snapshots of Trunk, depending on who you ask	11:04
tybollt	oh? o_O	11:04
Stskeeps	it isn't android, you know	11:04
Stskeeps	:P	11:04
ruskie	defragger, me too... searc hfor debian import key apt-key	11:04
Milo-	do I get charged for anything if I press the "send to mobile" button on the ovi store site? (given that the application is free)	11:05
ruskie	tybollt, from my understanding MeeGo core is completly open no clue about the stuff on top	11:05
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ruskie	which reminds me... need to try the netbook release on my 701	11:06
tybollt	Stskeeps: No of course not	11:06
tybollt	Stskeeps: My point is...	11:06
tybollt	At some point you'll be pulling in closed source binaries - how/when is that?	11:07
Stskeeps	tybollt: right. in our hardware adaptation we try to minimize closed source binaries. if you own a n900, you can get the repo URL for them and the kickstart file for generating our closed image.	11:07
Stskeeps	this is entirely on hardware basis.	11:07
tybollt	uhuh	11:07
Stskeeps	at some point, a vendor might add differentiation.	11:08
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Stskeeps	that core on top of the open and portable meego core and ux.	11:08
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Stskeeps	so instead of 43% we have like 97% :P	11:08
* ruskie hopes that the announcement that MeeGo 1.1 will support touchscreen phones and that it'll be around somewhere in october iirc will come true		11:09
timeless_mbp	!seen andre	11:09
tybollt	Stskeeps: Right so a _fairly_ vendor agnostic process then... makes sense I suppose	11:09
lejonet	timeless_mbp: still is ~ not ! ;)	11:09
lejonet	~seen andre	11:09
infobot	andre is currently on #meego (8d 23h 25m 59s), last said: 'postmanPechkin: const char* is not a class, it has no nested types'.	11:09
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asj_	hmm, I wonder if I can change left-right audio output balance on the n900	11:10
timeless_mbp	tybollt: so… you're looking at platform costs wrong	11:10
tybollt	?	11:10
Stskeeps	tybollt: i think it could be a lot worse. if you have hardware that supports a fully open hardware adaptation you can build open differentiation on top	11:10
Stskeeps	:P	11:10
timeless_mbp	a platform is a sustainable expense because it's a substitute for an existing expense	11:10
tybollt	timeless_mbp: My missus always said I don't handle/understand "costs", so yeah - probably.	11:10
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timeless_mbp	and it enables costs savings through cost sharing	11:10
timeless_mbp	tybollt: so, look at it this way..	11:10
timeless_mbp	i don't have a missus, so i have to pay for my own apt	11:11
timeless_mbp	imagine someday i meet a nice lady, who also has to pay for her own apt	11:11
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timeless_mbp	we could share a place, and our base cost for housing would go down	11:11
timeless_mbp	sure it might be a bigger place and seem to cost more	11:11
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timeless_mbp	but if you compare how much each of us put in before to how much we put in after, our individual costs will drop	11:11
timeless_mbp	we might even be able to do more things	11:11
timeless_mbp	and that's w/ just two of us	11:12
timeless_mbp	imagine if i moved from Finland (where neighbors are imaginary)	11:12
timeless_mbp	to a place where we had friendly neighbors who'd help out once in a while	11:12
tybollt	you entirely lost me now - but ok :)	11:12
timeless_mbp	that community adds value and reduces cost	11:12
timeless_mbp	which part?	11:12
timeless_mbp	imagine an apt for one in HEL costs 200kEUR	11:13
timeless_mbp	which isn't too far off	11:13
timeless_mbp	imagine if another person in the same city is also paying 200kEUR for an apt	11:13
timeless_mbp	total cost for 2 individuals = 400kEUR	11:13
timeless_mbp	imagine if they "merged"	11:13
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timeless_mbp	they could live in a 300kEUR apt together	11:13
timeless_mbp	they each save 50kEUR	11:13
timeless_mbp	if their old apt was say 50m^2, they might upgrade to an 80m^2 place	11:14
timeless_mbp	their place to them looks bigger, and to you as a visitor it also looks bigger	11:14
* ruskie is used to cast sharing paying for half of the costs for living at home		11:14
timeless_mbp	tybollt: does the first part make sense?	11:15
ruskie	erm cost even	11:15
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defragger	ruskie: finally its compiling the package	11:15
groove	hi, i have been told there has been a new release for the n900 this week but my phone is not showing up the update, any ideas why?	11:15
ruskie	groove, maybe it hasn't updated yet	11:15
timeless_mbp	groove: it doesn't poll every minute	11:15
groove	is there a way to force a poll?	11:15
tybollt	groove: sure there is	11:15
timeless_mbp	for some reason someone thought that might be expensive :)	11:15
lucent	tybollt: Thanks for the help, I like your description of the eMMC ^_^	11:15
tybollt	go into HAM and press refresh	11:15
Lazy^	Helli, is there MMS option for N900. I know there isn't one from Nokia but repos ?	11:15
ruskie	fMMS	11:16
ruskie	supposedly	11:16
groove	tybollt: what is HAM?	11:16
timeless_mbp	Lazy^: fMMS	11:16
timeless_mbp	groove: 'App. Manager'	11:16
Lazy^	Can i find it from repos ?	11:16
timeless_mbp	or 'App manager' or 'Add/Remove' (if you use my localization)	11:16
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timeless_mbp	Lazy^: sure, it should be in extras	11:16
tybollt	dneary?	11:16
groove	timeless_mbp: i already tried an "update" (as opposed to "download") from the app manager	11:16
timeless_mbp	tybollt: so, did the basic cost sharing stuff make sense?	11:16
groove	i'm not sure if it comes from the standard repos	11:16
ruskie	gah... hate that More... was removed	11:16
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tybollt	who is the head honcho in charge of website / doco? That's dneary yeah?	11:17
timeless_mbp	groove: the update is from a standard repo	11:17
groove	ok, maybe my repos are messed up	11:17
timeless_mbp	tybollt: file a bug ;-)	11:17
tybollt	timeless_mbp: I'm not sure still what you are trying to convince me of.	11:17
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timeless_mbp	tybollt: you were wondering how meego could be sustainable	11:17
tybollt	timeless_mbp: I'd really just want a mail where I can submit a bug.	11:17
lucent	groove: I had to flash PR1.2 anyways, because of troubles upgrading	11:17
tybollt	timeless_mbp: I'd really just want a mail where I can submit a diff	11:17
lucent	groove: it might make sense to just flash	11:17
timeless_mbp	tybollt: bugzilla supports that :)	11:17
Khertan	Hi !	11:17
tybollt	timeless_mbp: jajaja Ok, very well then	11:17
timeless_mbp	there's a website product and you can attach patches	11:17
Khertan	hum ... meego 1.0 ... interesting	11:17
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timeless_mbp	tybollt: anyway, both intel and nokia had to pay for building an os (moblin, maemo)	11:18
groove	ok, i'll try flashing it if the update doesn't show up in the next week	11:18
groove	many thanks	11:18
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tybollt	timeless_mbp: jajaja now stop mocking me	11:18
defragger	ruskie: did you ever upload any of your created packages to the maemo repository?	11:19
ruskie	defragger, all my stuff is in my own repo	11:19
defragger	ah i see	11:19
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Scelt	hei boys, where was the article about N900 ovi store update?	11:20
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Khertan	ruskie ... :)	11:21
timeless_mbp	Scelt: afaik nokia didn't actually promise that	11:21
Khertan	Scelt ... maybe in rumors ... or archives 2009 sections	11:21
timeless_mbp	it might be hoped, but afaik we didn't make that promise	11:21
timeless_mbp	i think the hope is to get it rolled out asap	11:21
timeless_mbp	but please don't treat it as a promise	11:21
Scelt	I thought they said something about this day, thursday 27th	11:22
* ruskie is happy living an Ovi-less life		11:22
Scelt	I saw somewhere	11:22
timeless_mbp	Scelt: you're welcome to think that	11:22
timeless_mbp	and there were third parties who made that claim	11:22
timeless_mbp	i'm speaking as a nokian having read mail where internals asked if the claim was accurate	11:23
Scelt	may be so, but I want to find that arcticle anyway	11:23
timeless_mbp	the response i saw indicated the claim was not	11:23
timeless_mbp	oh, the article's easy to find	11:23
timeless_mbp	but who cares? it's a third party article	11:23
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Scelt	"I want to find a Volvo repair shop. Please help." "Lol! Drive BMW!!1"	11:24
timeless_mbp	more like "I need help finding macrumors.com, because I have an apple and want to know if apple announced its next product"	11:24
pupnik	second pot of tea is sooo smooth	11:25
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pillar_	I thought that what was promised for today was new games to ovi store	11:25
Scelt	nah. I want to find that article because of interest, not because of believing anyone blogging anything	11:25
tybollt	pupnik needs himself some coffe	11:25
tybollt	e'	11:25
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* Khertan didn't see why the sauerkraut is cold		11:25
lucent	I wish there were a "No to all" setting in "Version conflict" dialog for Backup/Restore	11:25
* ruskie needs vast amounts of sleep this week... am so sleep deprived it's not funny		11:26
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timeless_mbp	http://www.google.com/search?q=new%20games%20ovi%20n900&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 says ...	11:26
tybollt	Khertan: do you fancy those little cheese cubes? you know w/ a red cow on them? :)	11:26
timeless_mbp	lucent: i filed a bug for that feature years ago	11:26
timeless_mbp	the backup team ui designers insist on being annoying	11:26
lucent	timeless_mbp: ha, yeah	11:26
timeless_mbp	http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/	11:26
timeless_mbp	> First up – new games join the veritable arcade already on offer in Ovi Store. Jurassic 3D Rollercoaster, Zen-bound, Angry Birds (level pack), Sygic, Kroll, Weatherbug, and GoGadget are all available to keep you entertained. Important to note though that Ovi Store will do a full switchover this week Thursday, May 27, so these games and other for-purchase apps will show up then.	11:26
timeless_mbp	interesting	11:27
Khertan	tybollt, the laughting cow ?	11:27
Scelt	Thanks! tjust that I was looking for	11:27
Scelt	timeless_mbp: isn't that an official channel?	11:27
timeless_mbp	Scelt: dunno	11:27
lucent	Angry Birds game is brilliant, it is catching on at the Apple iPhone apps store, one of the most popular games... and I played it first on N900 :) though unrelated to maemo	11:27
timeless_mbp	the place i read earlier was maemo<something>	11:28
timeless_mbp	which definitely wasn't	11:28
Scelt	well, gotta believe the official Nokia blog	11:28
timeless_mbp	Scelt: bad idea ;-)	11:28
* timeless_mbp goes to send an email		11:29
Scelt	;D	11:29
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tybollt	Khertan: oui justement	11:29
ZogG_N900	bad day for me	11:29
ZogG_N900	damn fml	11:29
Stskeeps	pr1.2 ate your lunch?	11:30
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ZogG_N900	nope	11:30
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Khertan	tybollt, i'm not a fan :) prefer cashew nut with my vodka	11:31
ZogG_N900	today i would waste myself i think	11:31
Khertan	tybollt, but right now it 10h30 ... un peu tôt pour l'apéritif	11:31
timeless_mbp	> We are not committed to open Store for PR1.2 on Thu May 27. We naturally hope we can do this.	11:31
timeless_mbp	that's an email i received internally	11:31
Khertan	tybollt, but right now it 10h30 ... a little early for a drink	11:31
timeless_mbp	it was sent tuesday morning	11:31
tybollt	Khertan: is it ever - for a frog? :)	11:32
Khertan	tybollt, haha	11:32
ZogG_N900	timeless_mbp, i don't believe anyone anymore	11:32
Khertan	tybollt, in fact not :)	11:32
tybollt	;-P	11:32
odin_	ok I finally did the PR1.2 deed today (OneNAND + eMMC reflash), my WinXP PC was acting up yesterday	11:32
ZogG_N900	it's all lies around	11:32
lucent	odin_: why reflash eMMC?	11:32
Scelt	timeless_mbp: not really a surprise that nobody knows what's going on	11:33
Khertan	lol Surfa ... it s here the right channel :)	11:33
odin_	well its got bugger all data on it (as its not my main phone), and I wanted to the full Nokia device experience	11:33
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Surfa	Khertan, i have plenty of right channels :)	11:33
Surfa	problem is to talk about right thing on them :)	11:34
lucent	I'm still wondering what flashing the eMMC does to add to the "experience"	11:34
ZogG_N900	why not. that's cool to reflash.	11:34
Khertan	Surfa, exactly	11:34
Khertan	:)	11:34
ZogG_N900	you know i was in army	11:34
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timeless_mbp	Scelt: glad to hear you're appropriately jaded	11:34
timeless_mbp	and sorry about that :(	11:34
ZogG_N900	and even ordaniry soldier perfore better if he knows reasons	11:35
odin_	it ensures all config files are reset and the correct formats, plus I get to pick my language and locale again on first boot!	11:35
lucent	config files? hm	11:35
ZogG_N900	lucent, that are in /home/user	11:35
lucent	oh okay	11:35
odin_	wow the Terms and Conditions would take a whole day to read !	11:35
timeless_mbp	Deputy Editor, Nokia Conversations rhiain.morgan@republicpublishing.co.uk 079 8305 5495	11:35
timeless_mbp	cute	11:35
* timeless_mbp grumbles		11:35
timeless_mbp	EWTF	11:36
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vanad1s	good morning	11:36
vanad1s	are the nokia update servers currently down?	11:36
ZogG_N900	timeless_mbp, you want him to get spamed? not a good idea to put data here	11:36
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Scelt	timeless_mbp: well, not talking about Nokia only. Big firms just are what they are.	11:36
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lucent	uh-oh	11:36
lucent	post PR1.2 my SIM is not registered	11:36
ZogG_N900	Scelt, not true	11:36
lucent	that's bad...	11:36
PhonicUK	hey all	11:36
pupnik	check that the cellmo module loaded maybe lucent	11:37
DocScrutinizer51	moo	11:37
timeless_mbp	ZogG: i got that person's contact info from google	11:37
PhonicUK	anyone tried the meego release on their n900?	11:37
timeless_mbp	and i fully intend to place a phone call to that person <now>	11:37
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ZogG_N900	Scelt, there are 2 options. or keep ur clients happy with support or inform	11:37
odin_	Hmm... "SMS - Nokia", "You are already registered to My Nokia. You will nopw start receiving Tips from your new Nokia." hmm...	11:37
DocScrutinizer51	lucent: oops	11:37
* odin_ thinks ET Phone Home		11:37
lucent	DocScrutinizer51: is this known bug?	11:37
Stskeeps	odin_: that is really a wtf	11:37
ZogG_N900	timeless_mbp, update me with results	11:38
ruskie	it says I'm subscribed as well even though I never subscribed	11:38
ZogG_N900	lucent, do you have it?	11:38
Stskeeps	yeah, same	11:38
ruskie	it also doesn't let me unsubscribe	11:38
* timeless_mbp nods		11:38
ZogG_N900	it's gentoo port time	11:38
lucent	ZogG_N900: the SIM-with-crossout-line icon is displayed now, and no cell connectivity	11:38
lucent	that's bad. what do I do	11:39
ZogG_N900	lucent, have u took it out?	11:39
timeless_mbp	anonymous voicemail :(	11:39
lucent	ZogG_N900: I've tried re-seating it	11:39
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ZogG_N900	i mean before. try to take out and place it back	11:39
DocScrutinizer51	lucent: somebody had his contacts app act up until I recommended to ersase all SIM contacts	11:39
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Lazy^	Hello on fMMMS instructions it says: -Enter your phone number at last (without dash) <- Where i should put my phonenumber ?	11:39
tybollt	timeless_mbp: few things agravate me to the extent anon voicemail does when I REALLY need to get a hold of someone :-S	11:39
ZogG_N900	lucent, try to reflash and try another sim as well	11:39
timeless_mbp	tybollt: shrug	11:40
lucent	is there some commandline kung-fu I should do?	11:40
timeless_mbp	the british version is better than the finnish version	11:40
ZogG_N900	who is the head of nokia and responsible for n900 ? )	11:40
timeless_mbp	the british version doesn't make any claim about who owns the mailbox	11:40
ZogG_N900	lucent, i don.t think so	11:40
Scelt	Lazy^: configuration	11:40
timeless_mbp	the finnish version says something like "the person you are trying to reach ..."	11:40
timeless_mbp	but since it's an anonymous box, how does it know it is the person i'm trying to reach?	11:41
Lazy^	Scelt: yes but where in there, i cant find any place for phonenumber	11:41
ZogG_N900	timeless_mbp, are u calling from n900?	11:41
timeless_mbp	i don't know that!	11:41
timeless_mbp	ZogG: w/ SIP.	11:41
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timeless_mbp	yep	11:41
tybollt	timeless_mbp: :P:P	11:41
timeless_mbp	i don't have other phones, just n900s	11:41
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ZogG_N900	cause that your phone in ignore list	11:41
Scelt	Lazy^: seems that it's unnecessary anymore. I didn't find it either	11:42
ZogG_N900	Lazy^, check the thread at tmo or ask frals	11:42
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Scelt	Lazy^: so skip it	11:42
ZogG_N900	i failed test today	11:42
asj_	well that's lame, there's no good n900 mixer control	11:43
Lazy^	ok skipped it	11:43
lucent	DocScrutinizer: I think I've got a handle on the issue	11:43
ZogG_N900	i want to get drunk. right now. it's hard to be russian	11:43
thresh	not really	11:43
lucent	DocScrutinizer: PR1.2 contains info that gets flashed, and is not downgraded when you get back to 1.1, which I think is what I manually flashed to my N900	11:43
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*** Docscrutemp is now known as DocScrutinizer51		11:43
lucent	so it's not going to work until I get PR1.2 going again? that's the theory	11:43
ZogG_N900	lucent, true	11:44
ZogG_N900	everything goes wrong	11:44
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lucent	the strange thing is I thought I'd installed PR1.2 when I manually flashed	11:45
lucent	exact command line was "sudo flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin -f -R"	11:45
ZogG_N900	lucent, check in setting - about	11:45
lucent	is that not PR1.2?	11:45
ZogG_N900	it's not	11:45
lucent	ZogG_N900: settings->about says "Version: 1.2009.42-11.002"	11:46
marmoute	Why are the 1.2 package not authenticate on my N900 ? (when I try apt-get dist-upgrade ?	11:46
*** dazo_afk is now known as dazo		11:46
ZogG_N900	10?.	11:46
odin_	the "Device Lock -> Lock Code" should be clearer, it should indicate it does not have a device lock code set on first use, not ask you for a code (and accept anything, this is confusing)	11:46
ZogG_N900	10.2010.*	11:46
* timeless_mbp cries		11:46
timeless_mbp	i reached a colleague of rhiain's	11:47
timeless_mbp	but my sip audio quality was bad	11:47
odin_	there should also be a mechanism to remove the device lock code, to its "unset" again	11:47
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timeless_mbp	odin_: so...	11:47
timeless_mbp	there's always a device lock code	11:47
ZogG_N900	timeless_mbp, try out video call on them )	11:47
timeless_mbp	the default is 12345	11:47
odin_	nope it accepted my new code, as the existing code (which I take to mean, it accepts ANY CODE)	11:47
timeless_mbp	odin_: the key is whether the device is actively <locked>	11:47
odin_	I entered my new code 3 times	11:48
ZogG_N900	odin_, so what's the point in lock?	11:48
ZogG_N900	haha	11:48
odin_	my code is not 12345	11:48
ZogG_N900	someone forgot microsoft pen in the bus	11:48
ZogG_N900	odin_, it is )	11:48
ZogG_N900	i wanna be happy again	11:49
timeless_mbp	ZogG: fwiw http://www.republicpublishing.co.uk/about/rhiain-morgan/	11:49
RST38h	ZogG: There is plenty of medications for that	11:49
timeless_mbp	and she's a she :)	11:49
odin_	hmm I click the power button and "Lock screen and keys" doesn't appear to do anything (but activate backlight off)	11:49
marmoute	No idea Why those pacage are not recognised as unauthenticated by my phone ?	11:49
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tybollt	RST38h: :-D	11:49
ZogG_N900	RST38h, they are too expensive	11:49
odin_	hmm I click "Secure Device" and it ASKS me for a code, to secure it, if I click out of it, I get desktop back, Doh!	11:50
lucent	oh... wow	11:50
timeless_mbp	odin_: that's the idea...	11:50
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ZogG_N900	haha	11:50
asj_	well at least alsamixer works, but poo	11:50
lucent	I just realized that I flashed the oldest version of firmware to my N900	11:50
timeless_mbp	you don't want to accidentally lock yourself out, do you?	11:50
ZogG_N900	odin_, u jailbroke it	11:50
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ghostcube	lucent: hehe	11:50
ghostcube	thats what i was asking for the package a bit earlier	11:50
lucent	I thought the newest would be at the top of the page! I'm enraged at my stupidity	11:50
ghostcube	lucent: its in the middle the latest thingies	11:51
odin_	I presume and hope you are being sarcastic timeless_mbp	11:51
timeless_mbp	no	11:51
lucent	ghostcube: thanks mate	11:51
ghostcube	np	11:51
odin_	not sure on the jailbreaking, this is an eMMC+OneNAND reflash, my first action is to set and test device locking so far it has either failed or doesn't work like any other phone	11:52
timeless_mbp	don't be presumptuous ;-b	11:52
timeless_mbp	odin_: i tend to be serious first	11:52
pupnik	where is kernel with fbcon now	11:52
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marmoute	odin_: I assume they ask the code you WILL need to type again to unlock the phone	11:53
ZogG_N900	brb	11:53
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timeless_mbp	marmoute is correct, as usual	11:53
odin_	I don't get this "Enter lock code to lock device" that is crazy, and if its meant to be a real feature needs a mechanism to turn it off	11:53
timeless_mbp	odin_: it doesn't lock the phone unless you lock the phone...	11:53
timeless_mbp	if you unlock the phone, it's unlocked	11:53
timeless_mbp	it's quite simple	11:53
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timeless_mbp	yes the design was by finns and is hardly brilliant, and the English text is disastrous	11:54
odin_	marmoute, I have already setup the code, I don't want to setup a unique code on the move (this is not a hotel with safe) its too easy to forget the number or type it incorrectly for that to be good UK	11:54
odin_	s/UK/UI/	11:54
infobot	odin_ meant: marmoute, I have already setup the code, I don't want to setup a unique code on the move (this is not a hotel with safe) its too easy to forget the number or type it incorrectly for that to be good UI	11:54
timeless_mbp	but… it's still quite simple	11:54
timeless_mbp	odin_: again	11:54
timeless_mbp	the default code is 12345	11:54
timeless_mbp	if you don't enter the right code when you try to lock the phone, it won't let you lock it	11:54
odin_	I entered something else which was accepted, not 12345	11:55
timeless_mbp	if you change the lock code, then you will have to use <your> code to unlock it	11:55
tybollt	hmm funny buig	11:55
tybollt	after -> 1.2	11:55
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odin_	I entered something else which was accepted, in the 1st step to changing the lock code	11:55
* timeless_mbp sighs		11:55
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timeless_mbp	the error messages are bad there	11:55
* timeless_mbp goes for a rewrite		11:55
tybollt	it seems the device no longer attaches the phone book name of an incomming sms number	11:55
tybollt	that is just super weird	11:56
timeless_mbp	tybollt: the number is probably in multiple contacts	11:56
tybollt	hmm	11:56
tybollt	I shall check that	11:56
tybollt	than ks	11:56
timeless_mbp	sadly, checking that is hardly easy	11:56
timeless_mbp	if you find an app for that, please let me know, thanks :)	11:56
tybollt	;)	11:57
odin_	when the device is "Secured" it doesn't clearly state across the top "This Device Is Secured" then "Enter unlock code to release" its like the page doesn't change	11:57
ZogG	back here	11:58
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odin_	ok "Lock Screen and Keys" what is that meant to be doing.... the "Secure Device" looks like more major operation	11:58
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timeless_mbp	odin_: my translation has "Lock" and "Disable input"	11:59
timeless_mbp	or in your order "Disable input" and "Lock"	11:59
timeless_mbp	does that help?	11:59
* timeless_mbp considers "Prevent input" instead of "Disable input"		11:59
odin_	Lock Screen and Keys - for me, just deactivates the screen backlight, the right hand button reactivates the backlight (with no sign of any "lock")	11:59
timeless_mbp	odin_: right, don't think about the nokia strings, think about mine :)	12:00
alterego	Oh, sweet, meego v1.0 anyone used it yet?	12:00
timeless_mbp	the nokia strings are bad of course :)	12:00
lucent	the difference between "lock controls" and "lock with a password" are difficult in English perhaps?	12:00
odin_	well "Secure Device" is an ok label in my UK one	12:00
timeless_mbp	lucent: the problem is that it was designed in finnish	12:00
timeless_mbp	and the finns did the translation into english	12:00
odin_	ok thinking about yours.... you should have one "Turn Off Backlight"	12:00
timeless_mbp	w/o considering related items	12:00
odin_	that is what my "Lock screen and keys" does	12:01
timeless_mbp	odin_: not quite true	12:01
lucent	it's not surprising, but your observation does ring true :)	12:01
timeless_mbp	the screen can dim w/o preventing input	12:01
alterego	Oh, is it still reference UI-less ...	12:01
odin_	but I also have a button for blacklight on right hand side, the non-latching slider	12:01
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timeless_mbp	odin_: again, it's not controlling the backlight	12:02
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odin_	I bet the DRM system works 100% (sarcasm)	12:02
timeless_mbp	it mostly prevents the screen from accepting input	12:02
odin_	what about _MY_ security	12:02
timeless_mbp	it happens of course to generally mean that the screen is off	12:03
ruskie	what DRM system?	12:03
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timeless_mbp	but if you get a phone call, the screen won't stay off	12:03
* odin_ looks on ebay for a lead box, that will keep it secure		12:03
odin_	ruskie, sorry it was a sarcastic reference to the Maemo Security teams current work for Maemo6/MeeGo1.x in relation to "Trusted Execution" and application licensing / application secure storage (which DRM can be built on top of)	12:04
ruskie	doh	12:05
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odin_	ruskie, the sarcasm is due to glaring issues with personal/data security that exist in Maemo5	12:05
ruskie	that'll be part of MeeGo?	12:05
odin_	I believe so	12:05
timeless_mbp	odin_: maemo didn't promise drm	12:05
tybollt	timeless_mbp: thank bob for that	12:05
timeless_mbp	tybollt: yeah well	12:06
odin_	these new features are a good thing, I just wish the usual security stuff I have on my Symbian handsets was also in Maemo/MeeGo	12:06
timeless_mbp	bob's planning on taking a vacation	12:06
alterego	Does the new search feature in the applications manager only search by application name?	12:06
odin_	timeless_mbp sure sure... well it was announced for Maemo6 but whatever that turns into for the next hardware device release, is then the promise is made for, so until that comes out, its still work-in-progress	12:06
alterego	I think I prefered the old search system ...	12:06
ruskie	odin_, what security stuff on symbian?	12:07
pupnik	ruskie: which fbcon module / kernel are you using? homemade?	12:07
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timeless_mbp	alterego: iirc it searches the one line descriptions too	12:08
ruskie	pupnik, I used jebbas but with PR1.2 I'll need to roll my own	12:08
odin_	well my E72 (which is my primary phone), has working SIM locking, working device locking, working MMC encryption (but no idea how secure it really is!)	12:08
odin_	Im not so fussed about MMC encrpytion the community can deal with that but the other points are really something Nokia should be addressing	12:08
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lucent	is it unwise to restore my application list from Restore when doing an upgrade PR1.1.1 -> PR1.2 ?	12:09
odin_	since they impact too much potentially close-source items and/or low level hardware, for which they are in the best position to address	12:09
lucent	any reason not to Restore the app list?	12:09
ruskie	device locking and sim locking? what's broken?	12:09
RST38h	lucent: PR1.2 install has not removed any of my apps	12:09
odin_	the device doesn't lock!	12:09
redeeman	argh, is there any way to get the onscreen keyboard back to how it was in 1.1?	12:09
lucent	RST38h: okay, good feedback thanks	12:10
alterego	timeless_mbp: thanks, I suppose that's not a complete set back. I'm going to try searching for "<up to 40 characters for description>" then :D	12:10
ghostcube	redeeman: yeah the keyboard sux	12:10
ghostcube	:D	12:10
ruskie	odin_, does here	12:10
redeeman	seriously this is insane, the old one worked so well	12:10
redeeman	and this one is useless	12:10
ghostcube	you cant hide it again by any key as you could in 1.1.1	12:10
MaikB	timeless_mbp, hello. Yesterday u suggested using microb for google buzz. Well, after waiting a minute for gmail's web interface to load, it takes another minute when I've hit the buzz text enter widget. Just FYI	12:10
* odin_ clicks Power Button, then he selects "Lock screen and keys", the backlight goes out, now he slides the right hand slider up and desktop some back (nothing was locked), it should STILL require me to "Slide the slider"		12:11
timeless_mbp	MaikB: yeah, but it lets you pick pictures from URLs	12:11
timeless_mbp	just like the real thing, since it is the real thing :)	12:11
timeless_mbp	my desktop is probably 10x as fast as my phone	12:11
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lucent	redeeman: I haven't got to playing with PR1.2 yet	12:11
timeless_mbp	MaikB: were you using WiFi, 3.5, 3G, or GPRS?	12:11
odin_	ruskie, how do I enable the handset to _REQUIRE_ an unlock boot on bootup ?	12:12
alterego	timeless_mbp: is that all? :P	12:12
pupnik	imagine n900 with 4-row 14 column keybd :)	12:12
redeeman	lucent: well i don't recommend you upgrade now, atleast not if you didn't have some major issue you know is fixed	12:12
MaikB	timeless_mbp, 10MBit via wireless	12:12
lucent	redeeman: video calling	12:12
ruskie	odin_, in settings device lock	12:12
odin_	ruskie, how do I set SIM locking, set PIN, activate, deactivate ?	12:12
MaikB	timeless_mbp, I guess its because of a ton of javascript that is executed	12:12
redeeman	video calling is not worth not being able to type	12:12
timeless_mbp	odin_: if you set Device Lock in control panel to some time interval	12:12
ruskie	odin_, sim locking under settings phone iirc	12:12
lucent	that, and I already attempted to install PR1.2 which caused endless rebooting, going back to PR1.1.1 causes my SIM to not be detected, so... stuck upgrading one way or another to PR1.2	12:13
timeless_mbp	and then walk away, it'll prompt you for you password after that time	12:13
odin_	ruskie, no I can see "Autolock" and "Change lock code", I want it to require code on power up	12:13
timeless_mbp	if you don't enter the password	12:13
timeless_mbp	then you are asked if you want to turn off the phone	12:13
ruskie	odin_, it does here	12:13
lucent	redeeman: I think the on screen keyboard is easily modified though	12:13
timeless_mbp	when you turn it on again, it asks for the password	12:13
ruskie	odin_, lemme dig it up	12:13
timeless_mbp	the SIM Lock stuff is unrelated and is optional	12:13
odin_	ruskie, nope.. under phone I can't require device unlock code on SIM change ?	12:14
timeless_mbp	odin_: you can't	12:14
ruskie	on sim change???	12:14
timeless_mbp	but why is that interesting?	12:14
odin_	ruskie, yes Symbian phones do it,	12:14
odin_	its interesting to make my handset WORTHLESS when stolen	12:14
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odin_	you cant have the data, you can't resell it	12:14
timeless_mbp	odin_: not true :)	12:14
pigeon	is there a way to reset the accelerometer on the n900 without rebooting?	12:14
pigeon	it seems to be stuck on one side	12:14
timeless_mbp	odin_: i highly doubt that the symbian phones encrypt their entire memory	12:15
ruskie	hmm last I checked my N95 didn't require any codes to switch SIMs as well	12:15
ruskie	had to install an extra app for that	12:15
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timeless_mbp	odin_: as such, it's merely smoke and mirrors	12:15
timeless_mbp	which we're missing	12:15
timeless_mbp	so you have one less useless feature to complain about	12:15
timeless_mbp	is that a bad thing?	12:15
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ruskie	odin_, yeah it locks for me... maybe you need to set an autolock timeout	12:15
ruskie	it asks me for lock code AND SIM code when I bootup the thing	12:16
timeless_mbp	real criminal groups can easily wipe the device	12:16
alterego	Wow, Apple are now worth more than Microsoft.	12:16
alterego	Being closed really does pay off!	12:16
timeless_mbp	and you can also probe the device for its data w/o loading the os	12:16
timeless_mbp	alterego: eh?	12:16
odin_	timeless_mbp, in my E72 I have menu items. Control Panel -> Settings -> Security -> Phone and SIM card (PINcode, PIN2code, Keypad autolock, Phone autolock, Lock code, Lock if SIM card changed, Remote phone lockingClosed user group, Confirm SIM services)	12:16
timeless_mbp	one closed company is worth more than another closed company?	12:16
ruskie	need food bbl	12:16
alterego	timeless_mbp: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10168684.stm	12:16
timeless_mbp	alterego: i know	12:17
MaikB	timeless_mbp, did you ever test buzz with microb?	12:17
timeless_mbp	it made bbc-wn-tv	12:17
MaikB	Just wondering	12:17
timeless_mbp	MaikB: i buzzed w/ it, yes	12:17
skyscraper	yo i'm back	12:17
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alterego	timeless_mbp: well, Apple are a new kind of evil realy.	12:17
timeless_mbp	it worked well enough for my purposes	12:17
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lucent	timeless_mbp: "Freedom from Pornography"	12:17
odin_	timeless_mbp, in my E72 I have menu items. Control Panel -> Settings -> Phone -> Encryption -> (Phone memory on/off, Memory card on/off)	12:17
alterego	They've gone way past Microsoft in screwing over FOSS.	12:17
timeless_mbp	alterego: nah, they're the same company, just more successful	12:17
alterego	Heh	12:17
redeeman	well this is a disappointment, i wonder wtf the people that created the new onscreen keyboard were thinking, obviously they're on some new designer drugs	12:17
skyscraper	anyone NOW here knows anything about n900 audio in?	12:17
MaikB	timeless_mbp, I've hit publish, and it says "in progress.." for over a minute now	12:17
MaikB	meh	12:18
alterego	redeeman: I think it's in preparation for multi-touch and probably portrait mode.	12:18
lucent	redeeman: relax, I said it, and the on screen keyboard is easily modified	12:18
odin_	so those are the features and the things that N900/Maemo/MeeGo should aim for	12:18
alterego	Is the new kbd in Qt?	12:18
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timeless_mbp	http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=e72+phone+decryption&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=	12:18
timeless_mbp	sounds like the e72 crypto just gives people headaches	12:18
timeless_mbp	alterego: no	12:18
alterego	Oh well.	12:18
timeless_mbp	the keyboard is still hildon	12:18
redeeman	alterego: well multitouch isn't on this device :)	12:18
chadi	is there a way to make the menu scroll in PR1.2 faster?	12:18
alterego	redeeman: well, if it's not in Qt like timeless_mbp states, then I doubt what I said is the case ;) Maybe it's for a possible portrait implementation ;)	12:19
odin_	maybe, but as I stated somewhere above... I am not too fussed about eMMC/bulk encryption but all the other things are important ( I see the community as able to make bulk crypto good)	12:19
* lucent cheers \o/ at the return of a working N900 phone with PR1.2 successfully installed		12:19
skyscraper	oskeybd is sh** - watch the keyb from opera 10 for n900 very nice	12:19
Corsac	the fact that it's done badly in e72 doesn't mean it couldn't be useful doing correctly on n900 :)	12:19
redeeman	i like the old onscreen keyboard	12:19
odin_	^^^ indeed	12:19
odin_	Take "Keypad autolock" and "Phone autolock" one is automatic activation of "Lock screen and keys" and the other is automatic activation of "Secure Device"	12:20
pupnik	e72 design is great for portrait users	12:20
skyscraper	i like that from opera. useful und iphone like	12:20
ZogG	sooooo	12:21
odin_	but the Secure Device might want to have additional options about how to handle data connections, like WLAN/3G/USB and also indepenant firewall setting, like you might secure it by barring incoming connections but allow all outgoing, etc..	12:21
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odin_	I can't wait for MeeGo in E72 format mono-block :) then I will have 2 MeeGo handset s:)	12:21
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lucent	odin_: you've got to be kidding, about data connections.	12:21
ZogG	redeeman, me too	12:22
* timeless_mbp ponders		12:22
skyscraper	so. now trying to search a "media markt" near to me with ovi maps xD	12:22
timeless_mbp	the e72 claims to use AES	12:22
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ZogG	does e72 get mego?	12:22
ZogG	meego?	12:22
odin_	lucent, why ? one known hack of N900 security is that you can attack/access MMC via USB even when locked, maybe its fixed now, but I see it that the USER should be able to control this	12:22
* timeless_mbp sighs		12:22
* timeless_mbp hates nokia web content		12:23
timeless_mbp	totally useless	12:23
* timeless_mbp can't figure out what the e72 actually uses		12:23
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lucent	odin_: it's not a core OS feature in so far as I am concerned	12:23
lucent	you do the work, write the code, upload an app	12:23
timeless_mbp	odin_: you can read the file system w/ special hardware	12:24
timeless_mbp	just as you can for symbian phones	12:24
timeless_mbp	and you can reset the phone	12:24
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skyscraper	afk	12:24
odin_	lucent, indeed!	12:24
timeless_mbp	your phones are not going to protect you from true evil	12:24
timeless_mbp	true evil w/ time will win	12:24
odin_	my BeagleBoard clone is in the van outside my door, yippee! I went for IGEPv2	12:24
ZogG	hildon is part of maemo right?	12:25
timeless_mbp	yes	12:25
TheGerman	is "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade" ok to install then new firmware without flashing?	12:25
ZogG	and maemo is prop. right?	12:25
timeless_mbp	well, maemo 5 and older :)	12:25
timeless_mbp	'prop.'?	12:25
timeless_mbp	TheGerman: you don't want other repos enabled if you do that	12:25
timeless_mbp	and officially you should use app manager	12:25
odin_	lucent, my BeagleBoard thingy should help me address these "security" matters	12:25
timeless_mbp	i don't think apt-get will say "hey, you don't have enough power not to fry me if you try this"	12:26
ZogG	timeless_mbp binaries only, you can't take UI out that's what i mean	12:26
timeless_mbp	(not certain)	12:26
timeless_mbp	ZogG: hildon is open source	12:26
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ZogG	i was thinking to get maemo UIX on meego	12:26
ZogG	=)	12:26
Ikarus	TheGerman: I wouldn't recommend it, I dropped my N900 into a reboot loop	12:26
pupnik	no fbcon in .37 kernel-power	12:26
ZogG	timeless_mbp can i get it run on meego?	12:26
timeless_mbp	ZogG: um	12:27
TheGerman	ZogG : orginal or poweruser kernel?	12:27
timeless_mbp	meego is a collection of bits	12:27
timeless_mbp	a linux kernel, and a userland	12:27
timeless_mbp	it doesn't include hardware	12:27
Stskeeps	ZogG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0-KQ6wPJ04	12:27
timeless_mbp	but nothing about meego is so special that it would prevent other libraries from running on it	12:27
lucent	Ikarus: ditto, reboot loop here when I tried installing PR1.2 OTA	12:27
timeless_mbp	unlike android	12:27
timeless_mbp	which has a special libc	12:27
timeless_mbp	and special kernel	12:27
Scelt	timeless_mbp: http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/E72/	12:27
ZogG	timeless_mbp it does as i understand part of them	12:28
TheGerman	ZogG : have u installed the poweruser kernel before upgrade?	12:28
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: is that finnish in the background?	12:28
ZogG	TheGerman, nope, why would i?	12:28
TheGerman	maybe this was the problem	12:28
defragger	is it possible to add extras-devel to application manager?	12:28
timeless_mbp	yeah, it is	12:29
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: no idea	12:29
ZogG	TheGerman, what problem?	12:29
* timeless_mbp heard "noni"		12:29
TheGerman	reboot loop	12:29
ZogG	defragger, yes	12:29
ZogG	TheGerman, i don't have one =)	12:29
defragger	ZogG: what link?	12:29
Scelt	timeless_mbp: "joku viis vastausta"	12:29
TheGerman	aww, sorry i mean Ikarus :D	12:29
Aranel	how can I edit the new menu on PR1.2?	12:29
ZogG	defragger ?	12:29
Scelt	timeless_mbp: it's Finnish	12:29
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ghostcube	Aranel: touch the icons for 2 seconds	12:30
* ZogG is confused		12:30
defragger	ZogG: what do i have to add to my application manager to get to extras devel?	12:30
Aranel	ghostcube: thanks =)	12:30
ZogG	defragger, oh, just write it by hand	12:30
Scelt	Aranel: push icon on menu for 2 secs	12:30
TheGerman	Ikarus : same question :D	12:30
Appiah	defragger: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel	12:30
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ZogG	defragger, catalogues, new, and than fill the info	12:30
defragger	oh cool thanks :)	12:31
Appiah	check on the bottom of that page	12:31
timeless_mbp	Scelt: the spec page is useless	12:31
Appiah	and read the warning on the top defragger :)	12:31
timeless_mbp	sure it provides crypto apis to java	12:31
Ikarus	TheGerman: no, using standard kernel	12:31
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* timeless_mbp hates nokia web content		12:31
ZogG	so who gonna leak nokia's drivers =)	12:31
Aranel	do I have some missing icons? Like wifi icons? On PR1.2, there's no "signal strength icon" on the left on connection dialog, right?	12:31
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timeless_mbp	there should be signal strength icons	12:32
timeless_mbp	do you have a bad theme?	12:32
timeless_mbp	someone else reported a theme which hurt the OSK	12:33
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Aranel	timeless_mbp: using the default n-series theme. But I also have some other themes.	12:33
TheGerman	hmh, ill make a backup and try it :D	12:33
Aranel	timeless_mbp: I didnt have any problem before the upgrade.	12:33
ghostcube	Aranel: update through repos?	12:33
Aranel	ghostcube: yes	12:33
ghostcube	from terminal?	12:34
ZogG	Aranel no you do TADA	12:34
timeless_mbp	Aranel: there are 3 rings above the circle for wifi	12:34
TheGerman	if it's in booting loop, i'll flash it with meego and then with pr1.2 :D	12:34
Aranel	ghostcube: no. from HAM	12:34
timeless_mbp	you can have 0, 1, 2, or 3 rings white	12:34
timeless_mbp	i'm using digital nature	12:34
timeless_mbp	which is the "other theme"	12:34
ZogG	TheGerman, go with win6.5	12:34
timeless_mbp	nseries is ****	12:34
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ghostcube	maybe try if the xterm apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade brings in some packages	12:34
TheGerman	i just want try meego :D	12:34
ZogG	timeless_mbp it's nice, but there thing with too much colours	12:35
Aranel	timeless_mbp: Reflect, Digital Nature, Nokia NSeries.	12:35
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TheGerman	i hate rpm, but i am curious	12:35
ruskie	I've modified digital nature to be well green	12:35
ghostcube	rpm sux	12:35
corecode	so is it true?	12:35
Aranel	timeless_mbp: I also had maemo-org and marina, removed before the upgrade.	12:35
corecode	there is 1.2?	12:35
ruskie	yup	12:35
ghostcube	yo	12:35
TheGerman	yep, its loading^^	12:35
corecode	heh	12:35
ghostcube	i killed my 1.2 already lol	12:36
corecode	meego?	12:36
ghostcube	no maemo	12:36
corecode	is there a preview available?	12:36
ghostcube	of what?	12:36
timeless_mbp	cute	12:36
* timeless_mbp can't open themes		12:36
corecode	meego	12:36
timeless_mbp	Trizt: ping, can you open 'themes'?	12:36
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* timeless_mbp crashes themes		12:37
* timeless_mbp sighs		12:37
timeless_mbp	sp3000: corematic's cert expired 12 days ago	12:37
RST38h	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53996 (check the Join Dates)	12:39
SWFu64	Does anyone know i the monitor mode patch is in PR 1.2?	12:39
timeless_mbp	SWFu64: eh?	12:40
SWFu64	Wireless monior mode patch	12:40
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DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: (lock) I suggest "dim & lock touchscreen" and "security device lock"	12:41
timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer: 99% certain those don't fit	12:41
DocScrutinizer	yeah, always the problem	12:42
timeless_mbp	"Close application" is my widest string	12:42
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timeless_mbp	you can have about 4 'n's longer than that string	12:42
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DocScrutinizer	make that "screen lock"	12:42
timeless_mbp	and it's a proportionally spaced font	12:42
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DocScrutinizer	and "SECURE LOCK"	12:42
DocScrutinizer	(capitals on purpose)	12:43
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timeless_mbp	way too similar	12:43
timeless_mbp	i'm considering "Lock" and "Prevent input"	12:43
timeless_mbp	maybe "Pocket mode"	12:43
DocScrutinizer	pocket mode is quite nice	12:44
timeless_mbp	objections to Pocket mode?	12:44
DocScrutinizer	:-D	12:44
timeless_mbp	it goes nicely w/ Flight mode and Tablet mode	12:44
DocScrutinizer	full acl	12:44
Stskeeps	how about purse mode?	12:44
DocScrutinizer	ack even	12:44
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timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: i don't think it'll fit into you average male's wallet :)	12:45
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: blargh, I'd expect it is like pw wallet	12:45
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timeless_mbp	i think Pocket mode is a winner	12:45
timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer: btw, are you using my strings? :)	12:46
timeless_mbp	ok, last thing	12:46
timeless_mbp	"Device Lock" the item in Settings	12:46
timeless_mbp	i believe that label is shared between the icon and the dialog <bug>	12:46
timeless_mbp	it has two items "Autolock after" <interval>	12:46
Stskeeps	i'm really wondering if most n900 owners are emo kids, they certainly seem so..	12:46
TomaszD	zaheerm, around?	12:46
Stskeeps	:P	12:46
timeless_mbp	and "Change code"	12:46
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* TomaszD cuts himself		12:47
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: dunno	12:47
timeless_mbp	dunno which? :)	12:47
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: I'm not actively using any string	12:47
DocScrutinizer	:-P	12:47
timeless_mbp	you'd know it if you were using mine :)	12:47
corecode	"not enough memory in target location"?	12:47
corecode	what does it mean by that?	12:48
timeless_mbp	corecode: is this from App manager?	12:48
corecode	yes	12:48
timeless_mbp	gimme a minute to get a translation?	12:48
corecode	sure	12:49
zaheerm	TomaszD, yep	12:49
ZogG	timeless_mbp, in which language?	12:49
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timeless_mbp	ZogG: well, i generally translate from Fingrish into English	12:51
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timeless_mbp	but i can translate from Fingrish into nl-FI if you prefer	12:51
ZogG	i prefer russian	12:52
timeless_mbp	ru-FI is also available	12:52
Aranel	It reverts back to default after pressing "Done" on menu customization. Why is that?	12:52
timeless_mbp	Aranel: did you tap an item and tap a new location for the item?	12:52
Aranel	timeless_mbp: yes, after that I pressed "Done" and it didnt save.	12:52
timeless_mbp	Aranel: are you using catorise?	12:53
Aranel	timeless_mbp: no	12:53
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* timeless_mbp shrugs		12:53
timeless_mbp	catorize (en-US locale display name) isn't compatible w/ that feature, so i don't use it	12:54
Shapeshifter	PSX4All vs. PCSX - Which to choose?	12:54
timeless_mbp	corecode: so, you probably hit sfil_ni_not_enough_memory	12:54
timeless_mbp	which is a generic message :)	12:54
Aranel	timeless_mbp: but I dont use Catorise or MyMenu	12:55
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MaikB	timeless_mbp, I gave microb 20 minutes to buzz a message, it just stuck at the "in progress.."	12:55
timeless_mbp	MaikB: hrm	12:55
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timeless_mbp	corecode: what it probably means is that your root file system is too full to enable you to install the update	12:56
timeless_mbp	(and that the people who did ham were too lazy to get their own error messages)	12:56
timeless_mbp	# Information note presented when there is not enough memory to do the operation	12:56
timeless_mbp	msgid "sfil_ni_not_enough_memory"	12:56
timeless_mbp	msgstr "Not enough space in target location"	12:56
* timeless_mbp pokes mxr		12:57
timeless_mbp	http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=sfil_ni_not_enough_memory&find=application-m	12:57
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DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: s/memory/storage/G	12:59
MaikB	timeless_mbp, speaking of error messages... I had to flash 1.2 onto my N900. The update dialog told me so without giving me the reason. I tried to find a log file that contains the relevant infos, but I didn't found one. Is there one?	12:59
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: memory == RAM on most parts of the educated world	13:00
vanad1s	corecode, "not enough memory in target location" -> got this error too	13:00
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timeless_mbp	MaikB: i think the answer is that there isn't really	13:01
DocScrutinizer	fingrish->English: "not enough free storage space on target drive"	13:01
timeless_mbp	if you use apt-get you can find out what's conflicting (in theory)	13:01
vanad1s	currently trying to free as much space as possible	13:01
timeless_mbp	vanad1s + corecode: keep in mind that you need to free space from the root file system	13:01
MaikB	timeless_mbp, i c	13:02
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timeless_mbp	which is not reported in "Storage" in Settings	13:02
vanad1s	timeless_mbp: but how much does it need? And how do i check, how much i have?	13:02
timeless_mbp	vanad1s: i think 60mb is enough (don't you dare quote me!)	13:02
timeless_mbp	and df -h /	13:02
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timeless_mbp	vanad1s + corecode: the simplest way to free space is to disable all the repositories you don't need	13:03
timeless_mbp	esp "extras" and "extras-devel"	13:03
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DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space	13:03
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timeless_mbp	there's a wiki faq page for this, DocScrutinizer++	13:03
DocScrutinizer	please see /topic	13:03
vanad1s	oh great, thx	13:03
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BugBlue	dear f**** nokia, I already have PR1.2 I don't need to surf to your website just after the update	13:04
timeless_mbp	BugBlue: eh?	13:04
timeless_mbp	what did it do?!	13:04
BugBlue	I just got an SMS from nokia that there is 'new software with nice features at nokia.com/softwareupdate/ or so'	13:05
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BugBlue	after I upgraded I got an SMS 'welcome back to OVI'	13:05
timeless_mbp	BugBlue: you must have opted in for 'My Nokia'	13:05
BugBlue	seems that my phone does send some information to nokia	13:05
timeless_mbp	welcome to cherry	13:05
BugBlue	time to opt-out	13:05
timeless_mbp	it's a mandatory feature for all nokia products	13:05
timeless_mbp	it's in Settings near 'About'	13:06
timeless_mbp	http://www.nokia.com/softwareupdate/	13:06
timeless_mbp	Oops. Lost?	13:06
timeless_mbp	Don't worry, it's not serious, but it looks like the page you've requested isn't available.	13:06
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BugBlue	unsubscribe	13:06
timeless_mbp	BugBlue: what was the exact url?	13:06
Ikarus	timeless_mbp: clicking outside the box is appaerently also opt-in then....	13:07
DocScrutinizer	LOL	13:07
BugBlue	nokia.com/softwareupdate without a /	13:07
BugBlue	Ikarus: like thinking outside the box? :P	13:07
Ikarus	and clicking unsubscribe doesn't seem to unsubscribe	13:07
ghostcube	wow flashing is fast	13:07
Ikarus	BugBlue: :)	13:07
timeless_mbp	BugBlue: thanks, wow, they're clever	13:08
ghostcube	if i knew this yesterday i had done it direct :D	13:08
DocScrutinizer	"activate MyNokia?" [yes] [ok] [go ahead] [continue]	13:08
Ikarus	I don't need more spam	13:08
BugBlue	let me see how much this charges me on my phone bill later this week	13:08
DocScrutinizer	"deactivate MyNokia?" [no] [abort] [back] [exit]	13:09
Ikarus	BugBlue: if they are premium I am demanding money back from Nokia :P	13:09
BugBlue	21 cents... seems to be normal SMS costs	13:10
Ikarus	yeah, looks like it	13:10
BugBlue	which means I lost 42 cents for this joke	13:10
timeless_mbp	it costs you 21c for 1 sms?	13:10
timeless_mbp	wow?	13:10
BugBlue	timeless_mbp: yes, I have no SMS plan	13:10
BugBlue	I never sms	13:10
BugBlue	timeless_mbp: I pay for roaming internet in the EU only 5 EUR/Day flat fee	13:11
DocScrutinizer	BugBlue: here in Germany some reseller sold Nokia smartphones with SIM contract with NO dataplan (means you pay by the KB), phone did a update and user had to pay 450EUR ;-P	13:11
Ikarus	timeless_mbp: I have unlimited HSDPA, why would I want SMS (although mine are only 17 cents)	13:11
Ikarus	DocScrutinizer: youch	13:11
Shapeshifter	BugBlue: that is quite awesome	13:11
timeless_mbp	BugBlue: um	13:11
Ikarus	Shapeshifter: it's called T-mobile	13:11
BugBlue	Shapeshifter: Ikarus has the same plan I presume :-)	13:11
timeless_mbp	5 EUR/day flat sounds amazing	13:11
timeless_mbp	does that include data?	13:11
Ikarus	BugBlue: yup	13:11
Ikarus	timeless_mbp: ofcourse	13:11
timeless_mbp	****	13:11
BugBlue	timeless_mbp: that's data roaming .. call roaming costs a lot more	13:11
timeless_mbp	?!	13:11
Shapeshifter	who needs calls	13:11
timeless_mbp	i want your provider	13:11
BugBlue	timeless_mbp: that's why I call via SIP when abroad	13:11
BugBlue	Shapeshifter: I do... with SIP via 3G :P	13:12
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timeless_mbp	if i roam for a week in Europe, i typically hit 1000EUR	13:12
Shapeshifter	whoa	13:12
BugBlue	if I roam for a week in europe I do hit about 35 EUR	13:12
timeless_mbp	(two phones)	13:12
BugBlue	my E51 uses my N900 for uplink	13:12
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timeless_mbp	actually maybe it's closer to two weeks	13:13
* timeless_mbp tries to calculate if 11 days is closer to 1 or 2 weeks :)		13:13
timeless_mbp	BugBlue: wifi sharing?	13:13
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: ever considered Iridium or Suraya? They can't be any more expensive :-P	13:13
Ikarus	PAN I assmume	13:13
Ikarus	assume	13:14
timeless_mbp	Ikarus: n900 doesn't have pan out of the box..	13:14
* timeless_mbp isn't even sure if s60 has pan support		13:14
Ikarus	timeless_mbp: it has	13:14
BugBlue	timeless_mbp: wifi... but I now do have to upgrade the kernel again	13:14
Ikarus	timeless_mbp: my laptop was just connected via bluetooth PAN	13:14
Ikarus	timeless_mbp: what the N900 doesn't have is PAN client mode	13:14
* BugBlue off to lunch		13:14
Ikarus	timeless_mbp: but it works as a gateway	13:14
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timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwNWviK5z0Q	13:15
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DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: aiui both do even CSD data, suraya at an incredible price per minute of <0.3$ iirc	13:15
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* timeless_mbp ponders		13:15
Ikarus	it's what my fight with DBus is all about, getting my laptop to log on via PAN without using NetworkManager	13:15
timeless_mbp	what would that get me at 1.22USD = 1EUR for 1000EUR?	13:15
timeless_mbp	that's 3 days continuous use	13:16
vanad1s	f***, i guess i'm just gonna reflash the device	13:16
timeless_mbp	if i got my math right	13:16
timeless_mbp	that's about a week or so	13:16
Ikarus	timeless_mbp: shudder	13:16
Ikarus	I am glad with my 5 euro a day limited plan	13:17
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timeless_mbp	Ikarus: as long as i don't go over 1000eur, it doesn't matter	13:17
Ikarus	even if I do have to call when they kick me down to dial up rates after some time	13:17
DocScrutinizer	Ikarus: not via satellite though :-P	13:17
Ikarus	timeless_mbp: your boss must be awesome	13:17
Ikarus	DocScrutinizer: heh	13:17
Trewas	data roaming can be somewhat expensive, for example upgrade to pr1.2 while roaming with finnish SIM in russia is about 1400 euros	13:17
Ikarus	Trewas: ...	13:17
Ikarus	Trewas: you haven't tried that right	13:17
timeless_mbp	...	13:17
Trewas	Ikarus: of course not, but I am going to visit there for a couple of days and checked the prices... now I know to be careful :)	13:18
Ikarus	Trewas: Russia is dead expensive roaming	13:18
Ikarus	3 euro/minute stuff	13:18
DocScrutinizer	Ikarus: in Russia the few stupid have to pay for all the hacked phones to keep the service up and running :-P	13:19
Ikarus	DocScrutinizer: heheh	13:19
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ghostcube	wow the flashing killed my sd card with all my backups on it	13:19
Trewas	11 euros per megabyte in russia with DNA as operator, and it is not that much cheaper even in EU countries	13:19
ghostcube	-.-	13:20
Ikarus	ghostcube: then you did it WRONG	13:20
Ikarus	Trewas: uh, as said, BugBlue and me have 5 euro a day max unlimited EU roaming	13:20
Ikarus	Trewas: from T-mobile	13:20
ghostcube	Ikarus why should i ?	13:20
Ikarus	ghostcube: normally flashing doesn't touch your SD card or the /home and MyDocs sections	13:20
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ghostcube	yeah my sd is killed	13:21
* DocScrutinizer considers to put BIG FAT WARNING to wiki, to remove SIM and uSD(!!!) before updating		13:21
ghostcube	its damaged i think its becaus of taken out the batterie	13:21
arachnist	DocScrutinizer: why remove sim?	13:21
DocScrutinizer	ghostcube: you're not the first one reporting such issue	13:21
ghostcube	damn	13:21
Ikarus	ghostcube: that is just bizarre	13:21
ghostcube	yep ... but it happened	13:21
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DocScrutinizer	arachnist: just to be on the safe side	13:21
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pupnik	my sim icon is dead. but i havent rebooted	13:22
DocScrutinizer	arachnist: there was a case yesterday where the contacts app crashed 2s after start, until all SIM borne contacts were deleted	13:22
loufoque_maemo	is it normal i'm still not offered OTA ?	13:22
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DocScrutinizer	arachnist: for obvious reasons I guess the erase was done on another phone	13:23
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ghostcube	ok, i need a new sd its broken	13:24
ghostcube	cant get access to it	13:24
Ikarus	but erm, reformatting the SD not sufficient ?	13:24
Ikarus	DocScrutinizer: is there a bug up on the N900 killing uSD and SIM cards ?	13:24
ghostcube	40 euros for the trash	13:24
Ikarus	ghostcube: call Nokia	13:24
Shapeshifter	mhh. I installed openttd, openttd-data and openttd-opengfx and still, if I launch it, I get "Error: Cannot open file 'sample.cat'". Do i really need to get the file manually from somewhere and place it somewhere else? I can't remember having done that when I installed openttd on PR1.1.1...	13:25
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Ikarus	(although they can argue that their EULA exempts them from this, most EU countries have laws banning such exclusions)	13:25
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noobmonk3y	hmmmmm has the ovi update happenned? http://www.cellbharat.com/blog/7774/nokia-n900-gets-version-1-2-firmware-update/ Suggests there is more content, cant see it at all though	13:27
DocScrutinizer	Ikarus: no, SIM contacts kill contacts app ocasionally. Also there were at least 2 reports about corrupted uSD now	13:27
visz	noobmonk3y, it's all lies	13:27
noobmonk3y	as per usual :P	13:27
Ikarus	DocScrutinizer: yes, but corrupt I get, but unable to recover even with formatting	13:28
Ikarus	I can't imagine how	13:28
DocScrutinizer	nah, not seen yet. Either card is borked from beginning, or a new partitioning and mkfs should recover it	13:28
DocScrutinizer	yet to see a SD card being eaten by a device completely	13:29
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Shapeshifter	Mh. My desktops are kinda empty. there really aren't too many good widgets. any favourites?	13:32
* noobmonk3y laughs		13:32
DocScrutinizer	ghostcube: if the card's MBR is corrupt, it might not be mounted at all, and this resulting in FM doesn't show it	13:32
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ghostcube	DocScrutinizer: yep seems so	13:33
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ghostcube	i calling nokia at the moment	13:33
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DocScrutinizer	I never tested how N900 handles uSD with corrupt MBR. Anyway I suggest you do a complete fresh format of the card on your PC	13:34
ghostcube	nokia told me, so i have used the maeomo flasing tool	13:34
ghostcube	they dont care if its borked	13:34
ghostcube	its not recommended	13:35
ghostcube	o.O	13:35
ghostcube	wtf	13:35
DocScrutinizer	huh?	13:35
Stskeeps	well, the official way is NSU	13:35
* noobmonk3y throws a B0rked trout @ frals		13:35
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noobmonk3y	Stskeeps: the official borked way? :)	13:35
* frals throws a whale at noobmonk3y		13:35
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noobmonk3y	frals: interesting	13:35
tybollt	heh	13:35
* DocScrutinizer trows a galaxy at noobmonk3y and frals		13:36
* noobmonk3y throws frals at a whale		13:36
* noobmonk3y eats the galaxy		13:36
ghostcube	DocScrutinizer: i cant tell more they just told me dont use the flashing tool o maemo.org	13:36
* noobmonk3y farts		13:36
ghostcube	:\|	13:36
* tybollt throws a noobmonk3y at the whale		13:36
* noobmonk3y giggles in mid air		13:36
Stskeeps	This software is work-in-progress and use of this software requires special skills and knowledge. The software and the instructions provided herein or with the software may not be complete. Improper use or installation of this software may harm the device you are installing it into, or the device you are using it with. By accepting the following License Agreement you also agree to use this software at your own risk and accept that ...	13:36
Stskeeps	... Nokia assumes no liability and does not provide any warranties, support or services related to the software.	13:36
Stskeeps	:P	13:36
DocScrutinizer	ghostcube: I can't comment on that. I don't understand that	13:36
noobmonk3y	lmfao my n900 is jhonny 5	13:37
tybollt	jhonny 5?	13:37
noobmonk3y	i'm watching it sit flat on a desk swapping between portrait and landscape on it's own	13:37
noobmonk3y	johnny5* alive!	13:37
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: which is that?	13:37
noobmonk3y	(80's film)	13:37
ghostcube	number 5 lives	13:38
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: OVI self destructor app	13:38
tybollt	Stskeeps: Everytime I read those disclaimers and what not I am thinking to myself they could just replace the text w/ "Hi customer - FUCK YOU! bye..."	13:38
timeless_mbp	thanks,, i think i'll pass :)	13:38
timeless_mbp	tybollt =~ s/customer/sucker/	13:39
ghostcube	DocScrutinizer: best is i told the guy on the phon eoTA crashed and i need the flasing utility cause your nsu sux	13:39
*** ab[out] is now known as ab		13:39
ghostcube	he told me he cant do anything for me	13:39
SpeedEvil	tybollt: I'm astounded that they don't get people to actually read them.	13:39
noobmonk3y	tybollt: i think they would phrase it differently "Oh shit we have a customer.... what shall we do, run , run for the hillllllllllls!"	13:39
tybollt	timeless_mbp: customer == sucker >:)	13:39
DocScrutinizer	ghostcube: I hope he answered RTFW	13:39
tybollt	run tio the hills run for your liiiiiife....	13:39
Ikarus	Stskeeps: guess what, those terms don't survive in most European courts	13:39
tybollt	aaah the nostalgia >:)	13:39
SpeedEvil	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10261	13:39
povbot`	Bug 10261: Terms and conditions of use displayed on PR1.2 upgrade are incorrect.	13:39
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: awesome	13:40
noobmonk3y	bug 10261	13:40
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10261 Terms and conditions of use displayed on PR1.2 upgrade are incorrect.	13:40
noobmonk3y	meh	13:40
DocScrutinizer	~tell ghostcube about flashing	13:40
noobmonk3y	bot's are on form today	13:40
noobmonk3y	~tell frals where to stick his trouts	13:40
tybollt	~tell tybollt to fuck off	13:40
ghostcube	DocScrutinizer: i did it this way upadte worked fine	13:40
ghostcube	only sd get killed	13:41
noobmonk3y	[11:40] <infobot> No, noobmonk3y, I won't. (target invalid?)	13:41
noobmonk3y	lol!	13:41
tybollt	=)	13:41
DocScrutinizer	ghostcube: so please REFORMAT your SD	13:41
SpeedEvil	ghostcube: Killed - or erased?	13:41
* noobmonk3y throws bacon at lcuk		13:41
DocScrutinizer	ghostcube: ...as bitching about flasher tool won't help recover it	13:41
ghostcube	must check dont have an real card reader for usd	13:41
timeless_mbp	someone please send ian stirling a box of candies for me?	13:42
timeless_mbp	i'll send money to pay for the candy	13:42
ghostcube	DocScrutinizer: iam not bitchin about flaher tool nokia does lol	13:42
tybollt	timeless_mbp: why?	13:42
timeless_mbp	tybollt: the bug above ^^	13:42
tybollt	timeless_mbp: and knowing you diss terva leijona - those candy are probably pretty icky tasty :P	13:42
timeless_mbp	that he actually read the license and spent the time to explain why it was totally broken	13:42
tybollt	tasting	13:42
DocScrutinizer	ghostcube: FWIW I added a warning to the wiki page	13:43
timeless_mbp	tybollt: i'd hope they'd send him candy he'd appreciate	13:43
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timeless_mbp	i'm not going to pay someone to send him poison!	13:43
ghostcube	DocScrutinizer: yeah thats good !	13:43
tybollt	timeless_mbp: :-D	13:43
Ikarus	DocScrutinizer: do link to relevant bugs	13:43
Ikarus	DocScrutinizer: warnings without clear explaination are a scourge	13:43
DocScrutinizer	Ikarus: I don't even know if there are	13:43
Ikarus	heh, ask the affected uses	13:43
Ikarus	users	13:43
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Ikarus	that is you ghostcube	13:43
corecode	apt-get clean was sufficient	13:44
corecode	dunno why that is on root	13:44
ghostcube	:)	13:44
DocScrutinizer	corecode: because apt isn't optified?	13:46
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corecode	sad	13:46
timeless_mbp	corecode: we improved the stuff users should officially use	13:46
DocScrutinizer	~optification	13:46
infobot	well, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs	13:46
timeless_mbp	not the stuff that happens to be there but isn't for general use	13:46
timeless_mbp	if we hack the underlying levels	13:47
timeless_mbp	then experts will complain that we messed with it	13:47
corecode	heh	13:47
corecode	silly experts :)	13:47
corecode	thanks anyhow	13:47
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DocScrutinizer	create a decent dedicated partition on eMMC for /usr and /var, and nuke optification	13:47
RST38h	Doc: and then the whole system becomes even slower	13:48
timeless_mbp	and it might not boot	13:48
timeless_mbp	if it needs stuff from /usr before /usr is available	13:48
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: possible, but not inevitably	13:48
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: that's a simple matter of doing the init right	13:49
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timeless_mbp	'simple'	13:49
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DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: of course /usr is supposed to be mounted before init scripts access stuff from there	13:49
DocScrutinizer	btw that's the whole rationale of /usr	13:50
DocScrutinizer	always been	13:50
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DocScrutinizer	/usr per definitionem holds the stuff not needed for booting	13:51
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RST38h	"Symbian^3 to launch on non-Nokia handset, courtesy of 'Asian vendor'"	13:51
* RST38h suspects there is an internal war going on at Nokia		13:52
DocScrutinizer	init -s MUST succeed with a completely borked or even removed /usr drive	13:52
asj_	RST38h: Nokla go go! ;)	13:52
DocScrutinizer	same for /home, and /var	13:52
RST38h	The only possible explanation for this part of news	13:52
DocScrutinizer	that's btw the reason ~root is on /	13:52
DocScrutinizer	and not on /home	13:53
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SpeedEvil	timeless: As it happens - nokia is sending me money. But for a study on usability, and just the once. :)	13:53
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SpeedEvil	Also - anyone that can - substiting the candy for broken n900s :)	13:54
Stskeeps	dneary: thanks for the book recommendations, managed to get producing oss and art of community.. getting peopleware some other time	13:55
dneary	Stskeeps, Cool	13:55
dneary	Glad to help	13:55
Stskeeps	is good to put words on experiences	13:55
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: if you need to faststart a particular app that resides on /usr, you are free to symlink it back to /MyFaststartUsrAux/fastapp.a on NAND	13:57
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DocScrutinizer	or simply move it from /usr/bin to /bin	13:57
Shapeshifter	Is there someway of telling where stuff will get installed to when doing an apt-get install? As in, I want to do apt-get install gstreamer0.10-plugins* but I want to see if everything will go to opt, first.	13:57
SpeedEvil	should libraries be optified?	13:58
Shapeshifter	SpeedEvil: why not	13:58
SpeedEvil	I noticed a couple of packages in extras-testing that pulled in perhaps 10 meg of libraries onto / as dependancies	13:58
Shapeshifter	optified and symlinked	13:58
frals	heh, i like going from 21170 function calls (20851 primitive calls) in 13.204 CPU seconds to 20391 function calls (20072 primitive calls) in 3.848 CPU seconds	13:58
tybollt	SpeedEvil: the sheer fact you have to ask saddens me... what a total catastrophe this optification is :-\|	13:58
tybollt	frals: ? what's that	13:59
frals	improved code :-)	13:59
noobmonk3y	SpeedEvil: Healthcheck pulls in 40mb now ;)	13:59
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: exactly. Though pymaemo-optify doesn't use symlinks, it uses bindmounts instead	13:59
SpeedEvil	tybollt: I mean - is libraries it pulls in being non-optified a reason for QA fail?	13:59
asj_	SpeedEvil: if there is an option to fix the library I would say yes	14:00
DocScrutinizer	~tell tybollt about optification	14:00
* corecode waits for update		14:00
corecode	DocScrutinizer: how is the usb host mode going?	14:01
achipa	SpeedEvil: depends on the lib. If they are your libs -> fail. Nokia's libs -> sigh and wave along	14:01
SpeedEvil	corecode: slow progress.	14:01
DocScrutinizer	sleeping for 2 days	14:01
SpeedEvil	achipa: I mean from a random app I go to install from testing - to evaluate for extras	14:02
tybollt	DocScrutinizer: what are you on about?	14:02
tybollt	DocScrutinizer: I know that	14:02
DocScrutinizer	we got 2 new hackers to the club, which will need some time to catch up	14:02
tybollt	that doesn't change the fact :)	14:02
DocScrutinizer	tybollt: just felt like... :-D sorry	14:02
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Shapeshifter	so. awesome. I did apt-get install gstreamer0.10-plugins* and after it unpacked most of the stuff it says "Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer0.10-pplugins-ulgy_0.10.10.2-1maemo2_armel.deb E: Sub-process /usr7Bin/dpkg retuned an error code (1)". Oh why do people think that apt is awesome again? Can never hear enough of it. Just look at this highly descriptive error message... In any case, free ...	14:02
Shapeshifter	... space on rootfs dropped from 90 to 81mb. apt-get clean doesn't change that fact. But apt didn't even install anything.	14:03
pvanhoof	When I click "Maemo5" in the application manager's update list, it tells me to use some software on my PC instead. What is this about?	14:03
achipa	SpeedEvil: that's what I say. If the libs are from Nokia, it's not a fail. If they are community libs, it's a fail (unless there is a very good reason/precedent why the given lib is not optified)	14:03
DocScrutinizer	and javispedro was a little busy the last few days	14:03
Shapeshifter	pvanhoof: conflicting packages or not enough space on rootfs	14:03
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pvanhoof	Shapeshifter, can I figure out which packages conflict?	14:04
achipa	SpeedEvil: for example most Qt libs are not optified, but it's not a QA fail to write Qt apps	14:04
Shapeshifter	pvanhoof: http://wiki.maemo.org/OTA_to_PR1.1_troubleshooting#How_to_find_out_about_conflicting_packages.3F	14:04
pvanhoof	rhanks	14:04
Shapeshifter	and where the hell are the apt logs?	14:04
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DocScrutinizer	lol	14:05
SpeedEvil	achipa: yeah - it's just a hell of a pain to work out library ownership.	14:05
* asj_ grumbles, I wonder if I can get Nokai Messaging working again		14:06
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pvanhoof	Shapeshifter, apt-get upgrade doesn't give me conflicts	14:06
pvanhoof	Shapeshifter, can I safely answer Y ?	14:06
DocScrutinizer	NOO!	14:06
pvanhoof	no worries, i didn't	14:06
Shapeshifter	pvanhoof: meh there's lots of room for failure. Just backup, then use flasher.	14:07
Shapeshifter	But seriously, how do I clean up this mess apt just made	14:07
DocScrutinizer	please see /topic	14:07
DocScrutinizer	RTFW	14:07
Shapeshifter	I fucking HATE apt. it's so broken.	14:07
zaheerm	pvanhoof, the biggest culprit seems to be libgles1-sgx-img	14:07
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visz	hmh	14:08
pvanhoof	aha	14:08
Shapeshifter	apt-get autoremove: "the following packages have unmet dependencies: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-dbg Depends gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly blablabla	14:08
Shapeshifter	FAIL	14:08
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: install find-utils (I HATE BUSYBOX!), the remove all files and drawers newer than xy	14:08
pvanhoof	zaheerm, aha brainparty	14:08
pvanhoof	that used that	14:08
pvanhoof	and tuxrace	14:08
visz	evopedia on n900 serves only one wiki-page. needs to be restarted for another	14:08
pvanhoof	ok, getting rid of those	14:08
zaheerm	pvanhoof, yep i had those 2 installed also :)	14:08
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vanad1s	so, i gonna reflash my n900	14:09
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: I doubt that'll work. I'd probably delete a couple of temp files from some hildon stuff or whatever and apt would be confused as to why the files are gone but still in the db and so on	14:09
vanad1s	how do i give it more space on rootfs?	14:09
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: maybe	14:10
Shapeshifter	and where's the log file, anyway...	14:10
Shapeshifter	can't find it.	14:10
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: but isn't apt already confused to hell	14:10
DocScrutinizer	?	14:10
Shapeshifter	nah. it just failed while "unpacking"	14:10
Shapeshifter	and yeah it's confused. that's because it sucks	14:10
Shapeshifter	but I guess that's normal	14:10
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Shapeshifter	Don't tell me apt doesn't have a log file on maemo5...	14:11
pvanhoof	zaheerm, my new hero, that did it :)	14:11
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DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: sure, it's stored in /dev/null/apt/	14:11
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pvanhoof	now the app manager accepts the update	14:11
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: xD	14:12
corecode	wow slow update	14:12
Shapeshifter	nah this is a joke isn't it	14:12
Shapeshifter	no log file?	14:12
Shapeshifter	....	14:12
Shapeshifter	how is anyone supposed to know what's going on then	14:12
DocScrutinizer	sorry, just kidding. No idea	14:12
zaheerm	pvanhoof, enjoy the update :)	14:12
pvanhoof	thanks for the support zaheerm	14:13
pvanhoof	you should blog this :)	14:13
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zaheerm	pvanhoof, lol it is in some talk.maemo.org thread, should be enough i think...i have blogged enough this past week	14:14
DocScrutinizer	pvanhoof: no, you should add it to http://wiki.maemo.org/OTA_to_PR1.1_troubleshooting	14:14
Shapeshifter	oh god how stupid is this. unbelievable that there is a single person standing up for this rubbish package management system	14:14
Termana	DocScrutinizer, is it alright to pm you?	14:15
DocScrutinizer	Termana: go ahead	14:15
zaheerm	dockane, surely you want OTA-to_PR1.2_troubleshooting page created	14:15
DocScrutinizer	but don't sell me a new washing machine :-P	14:15
DocScrutinizer	zaheerm: I guess that's ETAB	14:16
vanad1s	reflashing finished, works perfectly	14:16
pvanhoof	docscrutinizer, will do	14:16
alterego	When's this Ovi update occuring any one know?	14:16
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zaheerm	alterego, depends if you believe nokia conversations blog	14:17
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DocScrutinizer	zaheerm: sure a new page would be better, but then otoh I think the 1.1 version just needs little update and a change of the title	14:17
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alterego	zaheerm: don't see anything on the blog?	14:17
hrw	sygic landed in ovi store	14:18
pvanhoof	added	14:18
alterego	I heard it was today ..	14:18
pvanhoof	update is installing	14:19
pvanhoof	nice :)	14:19
pvanhoof	exciting!	14:19
zaheerm	alterego, it said today.....but timeless says it isn't	14:19
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sivang	is PR1.2 out already? ;)	14:19
alterego	zaheerm: ah, cool. Well, I'm not too bothered, would have been nice to try out some of those new games though.	14:19
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zaheerm	sivang, the topic says it all	14:20
zaheerm	;)	14:20
sivang	I hoped to try some of the OVI app wizard apps on N900, but the site said it is uncompatible	14:20
sivang	zaheerm: o :)	14:20
ghostcube	hola	14:20
ghostcube	i recognized the programms have an own backup list?	14:21
ghostcube	cool less work for damaged backup owners	14:21
ghostcube	:D	14:21
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ghostcube	o the only thing i lost now with the sd formating by what ever it was are my settings	14:22
sivang	how do I check my PR version again?	14:22
ghostcube	hmmm this is ok so far	14:22
ghostcube	menu systeminfo?	14:22
corecode	boot progress bar?	14:22
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SpeedEvil	sivang: settings - about product	14:22
sivang	SpeedEvil: 3.2010.02-8	14:23
* sivang wonders if he can cat /etc/lsb-release		14:23
sivang	:)	14:23
SpeedEvil	sivang: that's 1.2	14:23
SpeedEvil	err	14:23
SpeedEvil	i mean 1.1.1 I think	14:23
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* SpeedEvil becomes confused.		14:23
sivang	SpeedEvil: so we need a translation table somewhere	14:23
sivang	hey timeless_mbp	14:23
sivang	timeless_mbp: How do you know what PR you have on the device?	14:24
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SpeedEvil	yeah	14:24
tybollt	yeah	14:24
lardman\|gone	10.2010.19-1 is PR1.2	14:24
SpeedEvil	1.2 is 10.2010.19	14:24
SpeedEvil	...	14:24
lardman\|gone	or at least the legacy version I flashed	14:24
corecode	\o/ updated	14:24
sivang	so I have to the OTA flasher if so?	14:25
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sivang	and can go onw tih the instructions ?	14:25
timeless_mbp	sivang: in "About" or "About Product" in Settings it'll tell you the version	14:25
sivang	timeless_mbp: yes, it just says a what is for me (and an iphoner) a cryptic version number :)	14:25
timeless_mbp	sivang: bugzilla has a table	14:26
sivang	lardman\|gone: so the pR will be out in october?	14:26
timeless_mbp	i used to maintain a table in my blogs	14:26
timeless_mbp	and there was a wiki page	14:26
lardman\|gone	sivang: ? It's out now	14:26
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sivang	lardman\|gone: right, so even a "guess" at this cryptic version number yields nonsesne:)	14:27
timeless_mbp	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo#Release_history	14:27
sivang	is P1.2 makes the device at least a bit faster?	14:27
SpeedEvil	sivang: Seemingly, in some aspects.	14:27
sivang	SpeedEvil: nice to hear, and the a fix for something I reported should be there, so I wanna test :)	14:28
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sivang	timeless_mbp: thanks dude	14:29
visz	meh	14:29
visz	extended call log app doesn't seem to work with 1.2	14:29
ghostcube	this programm reinstall tool is fine folks :)	14:30
ghostcube	i have all back again	14:30
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timeless_mbp	visz: eh	14:32
timeless_mbp	iirc it did stuff for me	14:32
tybollt	argh	14:32
* tybollt hates at nookla		14:32
jaska	mokia?:)	14:33
timeless_mbp	visz: yeah, extended call log works fine here	14:33
ivan4th	FYI: I've managed to upgrade repartitioned N900 with /usr on eMMC (it was done long ago on PR1.0 according to ruskie's instructions). the command was apt-get install mp-fremantle-generic-pr=10.2010.19-1 osso-wlan=3.0.17+0m5 Before rebooting, I've merged changes in /etc/init.d/rcS and kept /etc/event.d/rcS-late that was before upgrade	14:33
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ivan4th	changes in /etc/event.d/rcS-late in PR1.2 seem to be related to optification which I don't need	14:34
Shapeshifter	ivan4th: aint that awfully slow at times?	14:34
ivan4th	Shapeshifter: mostly during reboots, but I don't reboot often	14:35
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krakan_	1337	14:37
timeless_mbp	visz: what version of extended call log are you using?	14:37
timeless_mbp	i have 0.4	14:37
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Stskeeps	mm, i need some kind of very simple wiki hosting place, ideally without signup, just some	14:38
Stskeeps	for one page	14:38
Stskeeps	any recommendations?	14:38
alterego	wikipedia? :)	14:39
alterego	Stskeeps: what's the nature of the pagE?	14:39
Wolfie	Stskeeps: github?	14:40
Stskeeps	alterego: semi-private temporary collaboration, text	14:40
smoku	ivan4th: what is the advantage of this setup?	14:40
smoku	Stskeeps: wikia.com ?	14:40
alterego	Stskeeps: google docs?	14:40
alterego	I'm not talking out of experience though, I personally don't use any google services.	14:40
alterego	But I've heard people use things like docs and other services I think they even have a whiteboard of some sorts.	14:41
Wolfie	i guess google wave should work well for collaboration	14:41
tybollt	At least googlers provides OTA calendar	14:41
tybollt	¤)%&!¤"#(%"#= nokia doesn't :-\|	14:41
tybollt	)%(!"#¤%()?"?	14:41
MohammadAG	yes	14:41
Shapeshifter	mh. since PR1.2 something keeps resetting my xkbmap to something like en_US I'm guessing. I want "ch". I use the same minor modifications to rx-51 as with PR1.1.1 and I'm 100% sure that they're not the problem.	14:42
tybollt	MohammadAG: yes!?	14:42
Shapeshifter	anyone else experiencing this?	14:42
MohammadAG	tybollt, &!&&#+€$, in short, yes	14:42
* tybollt dips MohammadAG in chocolate and throws him to the lesbians...		14:42
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, haven't changed them	14:42
tybollt	MohammadAG: ah sorry, yes	14:42
MohammadAG	o.O	14:42
MohammadAG	tybollt, sorry for what?	14:43
tybollt	hehe :)	14:43
MohammadAG	:P	14:43
corecode	anybody found out what the "join chat room" thing does in conversations?	14:43
timeless_mbp	corecode: it should work if you use skype	14:44
corecode	no skype	14:44
timeless_mbp	to let you join a skype group chat	14:44
corecode	xmpp	14:44
corecode	ohhm	14:44
corecode	now it is twiddling	14:45
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tybollt	"join chat room" -> first step to being arrested by FBI on grouns of misconduct w/ children >:)	14:45
MohammadAG	i'm really not sure who crippled the convos app	14:45
MohammadAG	it scrolls up on its own and / commands don't work	14:46
noobmonk3y	OooooooooooooOOooo one new app on ovi store - go Nokia :P lol	14:46
timeless_mbp	GAN900: can you verify bug 6141 for me? :)	14:47
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6141 "Maemo Software" should be "Maemo Devices"	14:47
tybollt	noobmonk3y: seriously? that's it? "new and improved ovi store" = one new app?	14:47
noobmonk3y	tybollt: pretty sure they havnt actually done anything yet	14:47
tybollt	bug 666	14:47
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=666 Problems with Javascript setTimeout function	14:47
noobmonk3y	or if they even are lol	14:48
noobmonk3y	bug 1	14:48
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it	14:48
noobmonk3y	wohoooooooooo	14:48
tybollt	bug 99999999999	14:48
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99999999999 was not found.	14:48
noobmonk3y	the bug was not found or the device was not found?	14:48
tybollt	=D	14:48
Corsac	bug -1	14:48
kehna	Guys I can't seem to back up my n900 or install new applications, Is there a way to back up stuff manually such as my contacts list?	14:48
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tybollt	*** povbot` connection reset by peer	14:49
timeless_mbp	kehna: technically, yes	14:49
tybollt	;)	14:49
noobmonk3y	kehna - how good are you at leaching sql db's?	14:49
SpeedEvil	kehna: Do you have a SD card?	14:49
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tybollt	bug 1	14:49
timeless_mbp	kehna: do you have a usb cable attached?	14:49
kehna	I have the usb cable	14:49
timeless_mbp	is it attached?	14:49
tybollt	Corsac: I think you killed povbot =)	14:49
kehna	yes	14:49
Corsac	naah	14:49
timeless_mbp	because it's hard to back up data when you have no volumes available	14:49
tybollt	bug 3127	14:49
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3127 *.maemo.org goes to repository.maemo.org	14:49
tybollt	argh :)	14:49
plastun	hello! what is the best: making symbolic link to /opt/... using debina/rules or opstins script?	14:49
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timeless_mbp	and volumes typically are exported to your pc when you use the usb cable	14:49
plastun	*debian	14:50
Shapeshifter	mh. how do I initiate a skype video call? I only see "skype call" in the contact, and if I do that I can't enable the camera	14:50
kehna	through pc suite?	14:50
plastun	*postinst	14:50
timeless_mbp	Shapeshifter: if you're in a skype call you can tap the title area to try to start video	14:50
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, the other party needs to have a vid cam	14:50
Shapeshifter	ah	14:50
timeless_mbp	but normally you'd want to find someone who advertises a video camera	14:50
timeless_mbp	in which case you'd see a 3rd item	14:50
Shapeshifter	I can't see "skype IM" either	14:50
MohammadAG	(well for the option to show in there)	14:50
timeless_mbp	note that you can't advertise camera when you aren't online	14:50
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MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, the person hates you	14:50
Shapeshifter	she uses skype for linux	14:51
timeless_mbp	i know, it's stupid, you can't leave video voicemail via skype	14:51
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, she hates you :P	14:51
timeless_mbp	Shapeshifter: get her wine-skype or windows :)	14:51
Shapeshifter	oh noes	14:51
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ivan4th	smoku: I did it when I needed some SDK packages to be able to use gcc etc. on device itself. The main advantage is no problem with running out of rootfs space	14:52
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noobmonk3y	i think there is confusion on the ovi update - as May 27 last year Ovi store was updated, i bet you someone is regurgitating last years news without reading the date	14:53
ruskie	hmm I guess I don't know how to use feeding it	14:53
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SpeedEvil	ivan4th: I cheated	14:55
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SpeedEvil	ivan4th: cp -ax / /home/user/data/chroot	14:55
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visz	timeless_mbp, ah, i have version 0.3	14:56
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timeless_mbp	visz: should you perhaps check for updates? :)	14:58
timeless_mbp	or maybe i need to vote to promote it out	14:58
visz	0.3 is the version on maemo-extras	14:59
MohammadAG	lcuk, how many MBs did build-essential use up?	14:59
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visz	timeless_mbp, 0.4 seems to be working	15:05
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timeless_mbp	visz: =)	15:06
timeless_mbp	visz: so 0.4 isn't promoted?	15:07
timeless_mbp	let's fix that! :)	15:07
timeless_mbp	help, how do we promote something? :)	15:07
visz	extras-devel also had working conversations inbox desktop widget	15:07
timeless_mbp	?	15:08
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visz	1.1.1 vs. 1.0.4 in extras	15:09
visz	latter one didn't run on PR 1.2	15:09
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noobmonk3y	hmmmmmmmm	15:10
timeless_mbp	help, how does one get http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/extcalllog/0.4/ promoted?	15:10
timeless_mbp	do we have to beg the maintainer?	15:10
noobmonk3y	Angry birds description on ovi says - "Each of the 21 levels requires logic, skill, and brute force " - am i right in assume thats bollocks, and there is only 3 levels?	15:10
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MohammadAG	hmm	15:10
MohammadAG	21 levels	15:10
tybollt	3 levels	15:10
tybollt	then YOU PAY	15:10
MohammadAG	21!	15:10
MohammadAG	nope	15:11
tybollt	;)	15:11
MohammadAG	21 without paying here	15:11
Wolfie	no, there's 21 levels, then you can (eventually, i hope) buy two level packs more	15:11
noobmonk3y	21?!	15:11
MohammadAG	yeah	15:11
noobmonk3y	omfg - i need to re-dload back later!	15:11
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Wolfie	well, it's just one level pack, but there's 2x21 levels in that	15:11
MohammadAG	http://maemo.nokia.com/ovi-store-promo/ kinda stupid, they could've made them linked to an .install file to update	15:12
SpeedEvil	And 63 levels is not enough!	15:12
SpeedEvil	I was at the point of trying to beat my high-scores of ***'d levels.	15:13
MohammadAG	there are 2 more packs afaik	15:13
noobmonk3y	has bounce got better yet? hehe	15:13
noobmonk3y	hmmm no update for me :\|	15:13
MohammadAG	yeah, it bounces a bit higher now	15:13
noobmonk3y	unless they mean pr1.2?	15:13
MohammadAG	nah, my user agent is borked	15:13
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pigeon	oh, new ovi store out already?	15:15
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nidO	no	15:15
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tybollt	they said day after 1.2 release	15:16
tybollt	so.	15:16
timeless_mbp	they lie :)	15:16
Wolfie	i just wish someone would get off their asses and re-re-put the angry birds pack back online	15:16
pigeon	i'm looking forward to that roller coaster game too	15:17
MohammadAG	same	15:17
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MohammadAG	not sure if i'll actually play it, but the graphics chip is kinda wasted	15:18
nidO	im still really happy with spb brain evolution that showed up on ovi a week or two ago	15:18
MohammadAG	oh?	15:18
tybollt	"I'm still happy there is now an (one!) app on ovi store"	15:18
tybollt	yeah...	15:18
tybollt	wow	15:18
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Netrum	Hi all :)	15:24
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noobmonk3y	wohoooooooooo	15:25
noobmonk3y	I r Angry Birding lol	15:25
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* MohammadAG does them andry bird sounds		15:26
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Netrum	i installed ubuntu to flash my phone. and i havent touched windows since. starting to like this more and more :)	15:27
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Netrum	is there a ovi suite type of program for linux?	15:33
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer, ping?	15:33
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tybollt	MohammadAG: "andry bird sounds"? android bird sounds???	15:34
MohammadAG	angry :)	15:34
Netrum	you guys bored or something ?	15:34
MohammadAG	lol	15:34
MohammadAG	nah	15:34
tybollt	=)	15:34
MohammadAG	just got home from an epic MW2 game	15:34
MohammadAG	got a nuke	15:34
Netrum	never played that game online :)	15:35
MohammadAG	tbh i never played any cod game online, then someone invited me into a game and now i'm at lvl 70 :)	15:36
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Netrum	i havent played anything online since eve in may last year.	15:37
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Netrum	and recently the only game i've played is mahjong on the n900	15:38
SpeedEvil	Hmm...	15:38
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* SpeedEvil wonders why anything accessing /home/ is deadlocking.		15:38
SpeedEvil	The processes show as 'D' in ps	15:38
SpeedEvil	And nothing in dmesg	15:39
* jaska overclocks the 7700 running wiki.maemo.org		15:40
jaska	s/7700/770/	15:40
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auenf	Netrum, why not play tetris, its in portrait mode ;)	15:44
auenf	it is (was?) in portrait mode on n810 also	15:44
adeus	yeah Mahjong	15:45
adeus	I'm hooked playing it	15:45
Scelt	is anyone else having problem with power management that opening up keyboard opens properly the screen but putting it back again doesn't lock the screen as it used?	15:45
auenf	isnt that by design?	15:46
timeless_mbp	Scelt: at least for my basic test, that works	15:47
timeless_mbp	steps: 1. close keyboard. 2. use hardware slider to lock screen. 3. open keyboard. 4. close keyboard	15:47
timeless_mbp	actual result: screen is off	15:47
TheGerman	yay, boot loop :D	15:47
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auenf	but if you do something, it doesnt lock, which iirc is by design	15:47
MohammadAG	timeless_mbp, that's the expected result	15:48
Scelt	timeless_mbp: seems to work now :> don't know what happened. I tested it like dozen times	15:48
MohammadAG	it prevents accidental slides	15:48
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auenf	if you (start closed): lock device, open slider, tap dashboard, close slider	15:49
TheGerman	wow, it comes up, after upgrading without flashing, but it shows strange effects :D	15:49
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auenf	it doesnt turn the screen off, which afaik is by design	15:50
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KMFDM	anyone able to help me troubleshoot an issue with the NSU	15:50
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zogg_laptop	timeless_mbp, have you talked to him?	15:51
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timeless_mbp	?	15:51
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Shapeshifter	mh. I can't un-capitalise letters at the beginning of a sentence anymore. shift+letter or shift, pause, letter don't make it lower case anymore since PR1.2	15:52
Shapeshifter	I have to do something like Oo-left-backspace to get "o"	15:52
Shapeshifter	Oo-left-backspace-right actually	15:52
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Scelt	Shapeshifter: reported bug	15:52
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, I use space, noticed that too	15:52
Scelt	bug 10310	15:53
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10310 can't write a lower case letter after a dot even if you'd do it with shift	15:53
Shapeshifter	okay	15:53
Shapeshifter	funny that they didn't notice this in 3 months of testing	15:53
Scelt	yea :(	15:53
MohammadAG	i noticed it with the sdk packages a month ago	15:54
KMFDM	my nokia software updater refuses to finish downloading hte new firmware	15:54
MohammadAG	but thought it might not be final :/	15:54
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KMFDM	even with another phone it tries to resume a download at 33.6megs and then fails	15:54
KMFDM	if i knew where it temporarily saves firmware images	15:54
KMFDM	i assume i could delete the failed download and get it to work	15:54
KMFDM	but it doesn't save the temporary download in a standard location	15:55
KMFDM	and it fails to resume it	15:55
KMFDM	even with a different phone	15:55
KMFDM	(also an n900)	15:55
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KMFDM	it attempts to resume the same failed download	15:55
MohammadAG	which OS?	15:55
KMFDM	windows	15:55
KMFDM	nokia software updater	15:55
KMFDM	xp	15:55
KMFDM	sp3 32bit	15:55
MohammadAG	it's in common data afaik	15:55
KMFDM	common data?	15:56
KMFDM	whee is that?	15:56
pigeon	hmm, the new HAM has no sort?	15:56
MohammadAG	not sure on xp	15:56
KMFDM	this is the nokia software updater	15:56
Disconnect	I learned the hard way not to trust the backup app. for some unknown reason the n900 saved a bunch of the photos (an entire bachelor/wedding trips worth of candids in fact) to the main storage. then didn't back them up (cuz, you know, who wants anything as useless as PICTURES?)	15:56
KMFDM	there isn't one for linux	15:56
MohammadAG	KMFDM, look up a how to hack a 5800	15:56
Disconnect	just a warning for anyone else doing an upgrade..	15:56
MohammadAG	it should tell you where the files are	15:57
MohammadAG	or use flasher-3.5 on linux	15:57
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zogg_laptop	who tried meego on n900?	15:57
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MohammadAG	not interested enough	15:58
zogg_laptop	i want to see screenies of twm	15:58
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MohammadAG	twm?	15:59
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MohammadAG	isn't it only an X server now?	15:59
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zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, nope as i understand	16:00
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KMFDM	MohammadAG, the image is not on the phone yet	16:00
KMFDM	its on my computer	16:00
zogg_laptop	http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Tips_and_tricks/TWM_WM	16:00
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MohammadAG	~flashing	16:00
infobot	it has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	16:00
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zogg_laptop	KMFDM, it should be on the computer ^ read what bot said	16:01
zogg_laptop	~pr1.2	16:01
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infobot	well, pr1.2 is available since early Tuesday morning. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/ -- see ~flashing for how to update	16:01
zogg_laptop	~nokia	16:01
infobot	nokia is, like, a cellphone company from Finland.	16:01
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KMFDM	ive read through all that 30 times	16:01
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KMFDM	it does not tell me where the nokia sofware updater saves its temporary firmware downloa	16:01
KMFDM	which is where my issue is	16:01
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GAN900	KMFDM, why is that your issue?	16:02
sx0n	~kumisaapas	16:02
SpeedEvil	~finland	16:02
infobot	finland is probably some bloody scandinavian icicle, or nice place to live in :}	16:02
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sx0n	:)	16:02
KMFDM	GAN900, the NSU attempts to resume a failed download at 33.6mb complete teach time	16:02
KMFDM	then throws a failed download error	16:02
KMFDM	and does this teach time	16:02
KMFDM	b/c the server went down when it was attempting the first download	16:02
zogg_laptop	KMFDM, you get img, you run flasher with command from wiki, you connect phone and do what it said on wiki, voullla	16:03
tybollt	hmmm	16:03
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tybollt	maybe I should install meego tonight?	16:03
* noobmonk3y prods frals		16:03
* noobmonk3y pokes MohammadAG		16:03
GAN900	KMFDM, then don't use NSU?	16:03
GAN900	KMFDM, why not update on device?	16:03
KMFDM	that fails	16:03
KMFDM	i have too much crap installed	16:03
GAN900	KMFDM, or use the flasher if that doesn't work.	16:03
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KMFDM	and can't tell what is optified and what isn't	16:03
GAN900	NSU sucks	16:03
zogg_laptop	kmfdm, just wait for pr1.3	16:04
tybollt	Is there a way to turn off	16:04
Scelt	http://research.nokia.com/news/549	16:04
GAN900	~flasher	16:04
infobot	rumour has it, flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher	16:04
Scelt	sx0n: The text featured on a PowerPoint presentation at Motorola some years ago bluntly described how America's top cell phone maker lost global leadership in the 1990s: "So, what happened? A little known rubber-boot company from Finland kicked our butt."	16:04
GAN900	Follow the instructions for the commandline flasher.	16:04
GAN900	Scelt, now Nokia is a joke in the US.	16:04
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Scelt	GAN900: sure. thanks to apple and google. motorola should be dead already	16:05
MohammadAG	what's motorolalala?	16:05
MohammadAG	:P	16:05
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ghostcube	KMFDM: take out your sd card before you flash the device	16:05
MohammadAG	why	16:06
ghostcube	it can be killed liek mine and nokia says we dont care	16:06
ghostcube	:)	16:06
MohammadAG	cause it's not because of flasher	16:06
MohammadAG	or flashing	16:06
ghostcube	it is	16:06
MohammadAG	don't blame it on flasher	16:06
MohammadAG	got proof of that?	16:06
ghostcube	i flashed and my sd card was clean like a baby popo	16:06
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ghostcube	yeah it worked before the flashing with ota update	16:07
tybollt	MohammadAG: s/canada/flasher/?	16:07
zogg_laptop	hahah	16:07
MohammadAG	and how did you deduce it's because of the update?	16:07
zogg_laptop	tybollt, dnot nice	16:07
ghostcube	the same happened for 1.1.1	16:07
MohammadAG	hardware defect then	16:07
ghostcube	but there i could change the card at amazon	16:07
ghostcube	nope new card guy	16:07
zogg_laptop	ghostcube, yu should call ghostbusters	16:08
MohammadAG	N900 hw defect...	16:08
tybollt	zogg_laptop: You from .ca? :)	16:08
ghostcube	nope n900 works fine	16:08
zogg_laptop	tybollt, thank's g-d no	16:08
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MohammadAG	ghostcube, no one had your problem	16:08
tybollt		16:08
tybollt	'	16:08
KMFDM	ha i found the failed download by searching for rx51	16:08
ghostcube	thtas incorrect	16:08
KMFDM	it was in G:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Nokia\Nokia Service Layer\A\nsl_service_module_00001\vpls\www.dsut.online.nokia.com.oti.caresuite\Products\rx-51	16:08
zogg_laptop	tybollt, same place as MohammadAG, different country =))	16:08
KMFDM	deleting the failed download did indeed fix the issue	16:09
KMFDM	my phone is upgrading	16:09
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ghostcube	DocScrutinizer: ping	16:09
MohammadAG	NSU is kinda... stupidj	16:09
zogg_laptop	KMFDM, format c: and than get ubuntu live cd	16:09
MohammadAG	umm	16:09
wazd	hello people :)	16:09
wazd	Stskeeps: around? :)	16:09
ghostcube	MohammadAG: btw there is an announce on the flöasher page for this what happened to me	16:09
MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, how would he burn the disc w/o windows?	16:09
zogg_laptop	wazd 'uuuuup?	16:09
ghostcube	take out sd card !	16:09
wazd	zogg: o/	16:09
zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, with laser eyes	16:09
zogg_laptop	wazd, so let's make habrapp for maemo =)	16:10
MohammadAG	ghostcube, i've never had problems with my SD card in while updating	16:10
MohammadAG	or flashing	16:10
ghostcube	iam not the only one.. so something must be a problem	16:10
zogg_laptop	i don't have sd card	16:10
MohammadAG	and I've flashed more than 35 times now	16:10
KMFDM	zogg_laptop, i also run ubuntu on this computer, but NSU is easier	16:10
zogg_laptop	KMFDM, flash took 3 mins	16:11
zogg_laptop	evn less	16:11
wazd	zogg: I thought they have pretty pathetic API	16:11
zogg_laptop	no windows anywhere	16:11
wazd	zogg: no commenting and stuff	16:11
zogg_laptop	wazd, highlight here, desktop in other room would be pissed off if it knows i'm using laptop	16:11
zogg_laptop	wazd, it was joke, just can't stand it anymore, al these droid news all over it, damn habrahabr	16:12
zogg_laptop	wazd r u from ua or ru?	16:12
wazd	zogg_laptop: moscow :)	16:13
* pupnik hopes he never has to reboot		16:13
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zogg_laptop	http://www.linuxuk.org/2010/02/the-new-ui-for-arm-based-ubuntu-devices/	16:14
zogg_laptop	2d ui for n900?	16:15
zogg_laptop	or maybe not =)	16:15
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hrw	zogg_laptop: it is more for 1024x600+ resolutions	16:17
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MohammadAG	hrw, nope, should work on the N900	16:21
thresh	doh metromap is painfully slow	16:22
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hrw	MohammadAG: I know that it can work. I saw it on 800x480 screen already	16:23
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fiferboy	ftrvxmtrx: Hi	16:27
ftrvxmtrx	fiferboy, hi	16:27
fiferboy	Did I fix all the tabs in my patch?	16:28
ftrvxmtrx	no, but I fixed them in git rebase -i :)	16:28
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fiferboy	Oops. I really should have changed that in VIM before starting on the code	16:29
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ftrvxmtrx	btw, help message box doesn't rotate even if created with parent set	16:30
ftrvxmtrx	I think it's because the string is too long	16:30
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fiferboy	Hmm, it worked for me. Both with the win message and lose message	16:30
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fiferboy	In English, that is.	16:30
tybollt	oh that is just lovely	16:31
tybollt	you can "merge" contacts on your mobile	16:31
ftrvxmtrx	yes, this box work fine, but another one, which shows help message, doesn't	16:31
fiferboy	ftrvxmtrx: You could change it to a QMaemo5InformationBox and see if that works in portrait and landscape	16:31
tybollt	but yOU CAN'T FUCKING UNMERGE THEM	16:31
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tybollt	%!)#%"(=%="#¤)	16:31
fiferboy	Ah, the help message one. I didn't look at that.	16:31
ftrvxmtrx	fiferboy, yep, QMaemo5InformationBox rotates as it should, but it doesn't show whole string, only part of it	16:32
ftrvxmtrx	I will investigate it later	16:32
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MohammadAG	tybollt, watch your fscking language	16:35
MohammadAG	we have kids in here points at noobmonk3y	16:35
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tybollt	MohammadAG: :-( I am crying now	16:38
tybollt	MohammadAG: kplzthks?!	16:38
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zogg_laptop	tybollt, that makes me feel good	16:38
tybollt	:)	16:38
MohammadAG	tybollt, lies	16:38
zogg_laptop	at least someone feels terrible as me	16:38
tybollt	zogg_laptop: what's up?	16:38
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zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, stfu, you don't understand the meaning of life	16:38
zogg_laptop	tybollt, terrible, everything is terrible	16:39
* tybollt tried leveling w/ mohammad - or else he'd throw frals at me... :P		16:39
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MohammadAG	there is no life, we're all in one huge matrix	16:39
tybollt	zogg_laptop: why what happened?	16:39
* MohammadAG nontheless throws frals at tybollt		16:39
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MohammadAG	in all seriousness, zogg_laptop what's wrong?	16:40
zogg_laptop	tybollt, exams, army, some shit i need to do, driver test failure, work, don't have time to finish something(so wouldn't get 1k$)	16:40
zogg_laptop	terrible	16:40
MohammadAG	exams?	16:40
tybollt	zogg_laptop: :-/ Army? Where you at?	16:40
MohammadAG	driver test failure, I'm not surprised, a friend got it @ 6th try	16:40
MohammadAG	IL sucks :)	16:40
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zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, i have reserve army at the time of the exams of colledge	16:40
tybollt	ah IL	16:40
tybollt	yeah	16:41
tybollt	general draft in IL is pretty menacing	16:41
tybollt	from what I heard you can't easily get out of the draft in .il by faking madness or faking gayness or such?	16:41
MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, aren't you 27-ish?	16:41
zogg_laptop	MohamemadAG, it was fine first 3 times (they just need one not to pass) b, but this time it was really my mistake	16:41
zogg_laptop	oh and i need to find new appartment and don't have time and money to move there	16:41
zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, 24 this month	16:42
MohammadAG	oh that life, nope i'm still 16 :/	16:42
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zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, stay like that	16:42
MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, doesn't the army crap finish @ 20?	16:42
zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, are you going t army? i suppose ....	16:42
MohammadAG	well, forced army, or w/e it's called	16:42
MohammadAG	not that i know of	16:42
MohammadAG	don't have an IL passport	16:43
zogg_laptop	meh	16:43
MohammadAG	so I'll stay as an amateur terrorist for the time	16:43
zogg_laptop	the situation between our nation sucks	16:43
fiferboy	ftrvxmtrx: Patch sent :)	16:43
zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, haha =)	16:43
MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, get a match and throw it at the local nuke armory	16:43
tybollt	7nick mossad	16:43
zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, i would joke, but probably mossad are watching us, and they wouldn't understand =)	16:44
MohammadAG	there are logs, and they're public	16:44
MohammadAG	(hi mossad) :)	16:44
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MohammadAG	anyways	16:44
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MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, scratch that idea, i wouldn't see PR1.3	16:45
zogg_laptop	mossad@idf.gov.il ~ cat maemo.log \|grep terrorist \|grep Mohammad	16:45
pupnik	i wonder what the problem with fbcon and pr1.2 is	16:45
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zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, i'll bring it to you to the prison ... in my arse	16:45
ghostcube	grml pokerth is devel grml	16:45
ghostcube	:)	16:45
pupnik	pokerth is what	16:46
MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, there wouldn't be a prison if you match the armory	16:46
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zogg_laptop	like that watch from pulp fiction	16:46
ghostcube	in extras devel	16:46
MohammadAG	pupnik, what problem?	16:46
ghostcube	:)	16:46
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zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, anyway u don't miss anything	16:46
MohammadAG	pupnik, fbcon works here - with about 3 reboots	16:46
MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, so it's not like cod eh?	16:46
zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, but do you have green or whatever colour ID?	16:46
MohammadAG	nope, blue	16:46
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MohammadAG	but i don't have the passport	16:47
pupnik	whose kernel MohammadAG	16:47
MohammadAG	pupnik, my own kernel	16:47
MohammadAG	pupnik, it crashes a couple of times, but then it boots	16:47
ghostcube	is pokerth not ready for normal extras-testing?	16:47
pupnik	k, did you have to patch fbcon module?	16:47
MohammadAG	and that's been happening since 1.1	16:47
ghostcube	i never had any problem with it :)	16:47
MohammadAG	pupnik, I just enabled it in the .config file	16:48
MohammadAG	i don't do modules - yet	16:48
pupnik	okay ty	16:48
zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, you don't need passport - if you have blue you are citizen	16:48
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MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, so... should i say "oh crap" anytime soon?	16:48
MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, afaik you don't force arabs to join the army	16:49
zogg_laptop	i'm not sure if u have to serve anyway	16:49
MohammadAG	no idea, but i highly doubt it	16:49
ftrvxmtrx	fiferboy, tapping 'Help' button while in portrait mode makes whole screen rotate to landscape and then it shows the message box :(	16:49
MohammadAG	ftrvxmtrx, where?	16:50
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ftrvxmtrx	fiferboy, and doesn't rotate back to portrait when closed	16:50
fiferboy	ftrvxmtrx: Really? It works for me with the new patch	16:50
ftrvxmtrx	wow, that's strange	16:50
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zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, i know you don't like each other but i served with some druzim in army	16:50
fiferboy	It shows the help message in portrait when in portrait with proper line wrapping	16:50
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MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, tbh I'm not that into politics and all, I don't mind israelis in here, as long as it's stable	16:51
MohammadAG	by the looks of it, it is right now	16:51
zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, it wouldn't be stable. the tops want money and power. and we — common people suffer	16:51
zogg_laptop	☹	16:52
MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, right now it is (:	16:52
fiferboy	ftrvxmtrx: If I show the help message while in landscape and then rotate to portrait, the message box and application rotate too	16:52
fiferboy	And vice versa	16:52
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ftrvxmtrx	fiferboy, and if you show it while in portrait?	16:53
fiferboy	ftrvxmtrx: It shows fine portrait and will rotate to landscape if I turn the device	16:53
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zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, if i was you i would go to Saudi and marry some rich guy's daughter, even 20 =)	16:53
MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, interesting idea :P	16:53
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zogg_laptop	ftrvxmtrx, fiferboy , what are you talking about?	16:54
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fiferboy	zogg_laptop: colorflood	16:54
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zogg_laptop	say what	16:54
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FIQ	can i customize the toolbar in the browser?	16:54
ftrvxmtrx	fiferboy, ok, I'll apply the patch	16:55
supertramp	maemo 1.2 update complete ruined my n900 :)	16:55
supertramp	perfect job	16:55
FIQ	or in other place?	16:55
ruskie	hmm recaller stopped working with pr1.2	16:55
FIQ	not mine. :)	16:55
zogg_laptop	americans are so... americans, i have colour marked as mistake while color is alright. damn you x-chat	16:55
FIQ	anyway	16:55
FIQ	would be useful	16:55
* MohammadAG wonders if PR1.2 broke more apps than it fixed :)		16:55
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FauxFaux	Stop it stop it stop it.	16:55
* FauxFaux is simply too lazy to update. :p		16:55
zogg_laptop	ruskie, it started for me, at least it sends some notify while calling	16:55
ruskie	zogg_laptop, hmm didn't happen for me	16:56
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zogg_laptop	ftrvxmtrx, what patch are you talking about?	16:56
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zogg_laptop	ruskie, i didn;t even known of this app before	16:56
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ftrvxmtrx	zogg_laptop, the patch fiferboy sent me to fix help message box rotation issue	16:57
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zogg_laptop	what box. i didn't get where is this help msg?	16:58
ftrvxmtrx	here http://maemo.org/packages/view/colorflood	16:58
zogg_laptop	andrei_, privet andrei, kak dela? =))	16:58
the_lord	Hi! does anybody here knows if it's true that skype has video call in pr 1.2	16:58
the_lord	?	16:58
thresh	говорите по-русски уже, транслит не нужен	16:58
SWFu64	Yes it does	16:59
ftrvxmtrx	yep, it's true	16:59
SWFu64	I've not tried it out yet though	16:59
MohammadAG	oh, new SDK update	16:59
ftrvxmtrx	транслит makes our eyes bleed	17:00
GAN900	Yo, fiferboy.	17:00
fiferboy	ftrvxmtrx: I'm fiferboy on github now if that helps anything	17:00
fiferboy	Hi GAN900	17:00
the_lord	thresh, I tried calling and it didn't show me anything of video	17:00
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thresh	the_lord: cant help ya. never tried.	17:00
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fiferboy	GAN900: Are the Rays going to run away with the East?	17:01
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GAN900	fiferboy, probably	17:01
GAN900	fiferboy, although the offense is in a slump	17:01
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GAN900	and the Red Sox have the umps in their pocket	17:03
GAN900	I can't believe how fast they ejected Crawford.	17:03
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fiferboy	Yanks and Red Sox always get the benefit of the calls	17:04
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supertramp	why I lost all my sms / contacts and calendar after the update? :)	17:07
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Appiah	you did? good thing you made a backup first!	17:08
supertramp	well ... no	17:09
the_lord	thresh, yes, it works	17:09
Appiah	O_O	17:09
supertramp	ok - let's see the calendardb :)	17:10
supertramp	all data are in it	17:10
ftrvxmtrx	fiferboy, I've added you as a collaborator	17:10
fiferboy	ftrvxmtrx: Thanks!	17:10
ftrvxmtrx	n/p :)	17:10
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supertramp	ah	17:11
supertramp	ok - I see the problem now	17:11
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supertramp	permissions :)	17:12
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GAN900	fiferboy, I was at the game and it was clearly outside.	17:12
GAN900	fiferboy, Fox Trax said about 6 inches	17:13
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fiferboy	GAN900: Did you let them have whatfor?	17:13
GAN900	fiferboy, and that was only one call of at least a dozen.	17:13
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GAN900	fiferboy, Madden got out there and gave him hell	17:13
GAN900	Half the stadium booed nearly every strike call after that.	17:13
GAN900	Other half were Red Sox fans of course. :rolleyes:	17:14
fiferboy	GAN900: What's attendance like these days?	17:14
rm_you	hrm....	17:14
GAN900	fiferboy, better than usual	17:14
GAN900	Averaging around 20k, I think.	17:14
rm_you	so my device started reboot-looping at the loading dots right after the nokia hands like a week ago....	17:15
GAN900	But the Northerners still insist we don't deserve a team.	17:15
GAN900	rm_you, and you haven't flashed it?	17:15
rm_you	i figured i'd wait and just reflash when PR1.2 came out	17:15
rm_you	so i did, and it has	17:15
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rm_you	but it's not entering flash mode, it just flashes the usb icon and continues to the dots and the reboot loop T_T	17:15
rm_you	supposed to just hold down the "u" key, right?	17:16
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GAN900	Yes	17:18
oscillik	frals: you should be a Nokia employee for making MMS work on my N900	17:18
frals	heh	17:18
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oscillik	thank you	17:18
plastun	after installation my app it not appears in menu. What the matter?	17:18
frals	thank you ;)	17:18
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MohammadAG	.desktop files aren't autocreated	17:19
GAN900	oscillik, don't say that.	17:19
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GAN900	They he'd have specs to follow, it would only be released for Harmattan and we'd never hear from him again. ;)	17:20
Corsac	GAN900: any intent to integrate fmms in contacts? (not sure if it's possible though)	17:20
MohammadAG	GAN900, why? I wouldn't mind a trout in future Nokia phone boxes	17:20
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GAN900	Corsac, apparently the plugin interface sucks.	17:20
frals	MohammadAG: be careful what you wish for :D	17:20
* oscillik is confused		17:20
rm_you	I'm holding down the "u" key as hard as I can, no luck. <_<	17:21
GAN900	s/They/Then	17:21
MohammadAG	hehehe	17:21
GAN900	rm_you, unplug USB, pop battery, replace battery, hold u, plug in USB.	17:21
mortal	which maemo phones are out there?	17:21
rm_you	done it about 10 times, doing it again for funsies	17:22
GAN900	N900	17:22
GAN900	rm_you, odd.	17:22
MohammadAG	rm_you, or unplug USB, remove the battery, connect the USB, execute the command and connect the battery	17:22
MohammadAG	some OSs like to be bi***y	17:22
GAN900	rm_you, sure there's nothing wrong with your cable, your keyboard or your fingers?	17:22
lcuk	rm_you, remove battery, connect usb cable, start flasher, when it says "no device detected", put battery in	17:22
lcuk	no key presses and works :)	17:22
MohammadAG	or bacon in my N950 package :P	17:22
TheRealHotshot	lol	17:23
fiferboy	ftrvxmtrx: Latest git works perfectly for me	17:24
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rm_you	nope, does the same thing	17:26
MohammadAG	andre___, what's with the keywords? :)	17:26
andre___	MohammadAG, hmm?	17:26
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andre___	MohammadAG, "moreinfo": workaround waiting for new Bugzilla version that introduces "NEEDINFO" state	17:27
MohammadAG	andre___, "moreinfo"	17:27
MohammadAG	oh	17:27
rm_you	computer says "detected usb device" in the taskbar, flickers a bit (the n900 has the usb icon in the corner for right around 1 second) then the beeping that means "usb device connected" followed by "usb device disconnected" happens a little bit, and the device continues to try to boot, but reboots during the dots	17:27
andre___	MohammadAG, only used "against" the reporter	17:27
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rm_you	is there a way besides holding "u" to force a flash? because it doesn't seem to be forcing anything	17:28
rm_you	or to force-reset / wipe the device?	17:28
rm_you	do I need to have a SIM or a microSD in the n900?	17:28
MohammadAG	andre___, oh, I see	17:28
MohammadAG	nope	17:28
lcuk	rm_you, try alternative usb port/computer potentially something is screwing your usb stack	17:28
rm_you	tried two computers so far	17:29
lcuk	either that or your battery may be rlyrlyrly flat	17:29
rm_you	tried two batteries	17:29
MohammadAG	try a proper OS :)	17:29
rm_you	will attempt to charge them both again in n810 and then try again	17:29
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MohammadAG	rm_you, try using a linux live cd	17:30
MohammadAG	DSL aka Damn Small Linux is... damn small :)	17:30
ftrvxmtrx	fiferboy, great, maybe I should promote it then	17:30
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fiferboy	ftrvxmtrx: I'd go for it	17:32
zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, haha loser you have n950, i have n950i	17:32
MohammadAG	Nokia-NXX:~# uname	17:34
MohammadAG	Mac OS X	17:34
rm_you	aha, so i left it doing that little loop on my laptop on the other side of the room just now while i scoured forums for answers	17:34
MohammadAG	who's the loser now :)	17:34
rm_you	the beeping stopped so i went to look.... it started taking the flash after about the 40th reboot	17:35
MohammadAG	lol	17:35
rm_you	watched it finish flashing...	17:35
rm_you	now i try to turn it on and it turns off after the dots	17:35
rm_you	so, basically the same as before >_<	17:35
GAN900	rm_you, low batt?	17:35
rm_you	attempting to charge the battery again in the n810	17:35
rm_you	as when i plug the n900 into power, it attemps to turn on, then reboot-loops	17:36
rm_you	instead of charging	17:36
zogg_laptop	Nokia-N950:~ uname	17:37
zogg_laptop	Plan9	17:37
zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, you are	17:37
MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, fake!!!!11!	17:37
zogg_laptop	rm_you, give it a time	17:37
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zogg_laptop	rm_you, sometimes the screen goes off for me while turning on instead of dots	17:38
zogg_laptop	and after flash turning on takes a while	17:38
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rm_you	this is what happens when i plug it into power when it is off.	17:39
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rm_you	one second delay. NOKIA in blue letters on white. the loading dots for about two to three seconds, they are moving as normal. screen dims. still see dots, but they are frozen, lasts for two to three seconds. screen goes entire dark. goto beginning and repeat.	17:40
zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, my cosmorabbit sends you huge	17:40
rm_you	sorry no, dots are still moving while screen is dim, continue moving until reboot	17:41
mortal	does the n900 have many known hardware bugs or severe software limitations? how usable is it currently?	17:43
SpeedEvil	mortal: It is rather slow.	17:43
SpeedEvil	mortal: It takes around 3 hours to compile a kernel.	17:43
zogg_laptop	mortal, don't buy it	17:43
SpeedEvil	Though the UI is surprisingly responsive during this.	17:43
mortal	eh, 3 hours	17:43
mortal	that is fast	17:44
zogg_laptop	and it makes coffee	17:44
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mortal	I am using n810 + e90 combo atm	17:44
mortal	the only thing I lack is the 900 MHz 3g	17:44
zogg_laptop	wait for meego device	17:44
SpeedEvil	mortal: The biggest hardware issue I have is that teh cheap bastards only included one stylus.	17:44
zogg_laptop	900mhz is overclocking	17:44
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SpeedEvil	err - no	17:45
jaska	lol	17:45
SpeedEvil	900MHz is also a cellular band	17:45
jaska	2100MHz 3g must be real bad overclocking then	17:45
ghostcube	hmmm, i just noticed the kayboard has no & sign i mean the hw keyboard	17:45
ghostcube	lol	17:45
Shapeshifter	biggest hardware issue is emmc IO	17:45
zogg_laptop	900mhz is aso frequency	17:45
timeless_mbp	GAN900: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/screenshots/Screenshot-20100527-173806.png	17:46
SpeedEvil	ghostcube: Mine does - blue-k	17:46
ghostcube	hmm, am i so blind today	17:46
timeless_mbp	Trizt, et al: help	17:46
zogg_laptop	ghostcube, you can change other leeter for it	17:46
zogg_laptop	letter*	17:46
zogg_laptop	mine have it	17:46
GAN900	timeless_mbp, there any way to make that clickable with strings?	17:47
zogg_laptop	what i miss is \| and —	17:47
jaska	i replaced euro and sterling with \| and & etc, then added <> {} () ` % as shift-fn combos	17:47
timeless_mbp	GAN900: not afaict	17:47
Zucca	Is there a way to start terminal (in Maemo 5) in ISO locale?	17:47
SpeedEvil	? is shift-:	17:47
BCMM	SpeedEvil: where is that a cellular band?	17:47
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ghostcube	hmm i only have the & in terminal with fn and sym key :)	17:47
SpeedEvil	BCMM: here - though it's not 3G	17:47
SpeedEvil	AFAIK	17:47
jaska	oops, not () but []	17:47
ghostcube	yeah the pipe is a missing one too	17:47
timeless_mbp	GAN900: the word wrapping of the url was also helpful	17:47
zogg_laptop	ат фты ынь лун вщтэе цщкл ащк ьу	17:47
timeless_mbp	fwiw the missing space after the period near the bottom is my fault	17:47
timeless_mbp	i'll fix that	17:48
zogg_laptop	ooopsy	17:48
timeless_mbp	could i get a shorter url?	17:48
timeless_mbp	note that afaict, i can't even make the url selectable	17:48
zogg_laptop	fn+sym doesn't work for me at all	17:48
timeless_mbp	which means people will have to hand retype it ! :(	17:48
ghostcube	is there any way to get back the old software keyboard	17:48
ghostcube	o.O	17:48
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SpeedEvil	zogg: It's stupid	17:48
timeless_mbp	i claim it's still better than what is normally presented	17:48
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MohammadAG	Might check on that soon	17:48
MohammadAG	i want the old menu back	17:48
timeless_mbp	i might be able to buy some space by changing 'Open backup' to 'Backup'	17:49
jaska	also longpress is kinda wacky when you do press shift and then longpress a key :) atleast in terminal	17:49
dotblank	hmm video call over javver says there is mismatched video codecs..	17:49
ghostcube	i want the old keyboard back btw the old menu was cool too	17:49
timeless_mbp	but that's kinda stupid :(	17:49
dotblank	what codec does the n900 use for video call?	17:49
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dotblank	jabber*	17:49
ghostcube	full ack MohammadAG	17:49
SpeedEvil	zogg: You need to press and hold blue, press function, release function, release blue	17:49
SpeedEvil	zogg: any other combination doesn't work	17:49
ghostcube	yeah i have my pokerth back (yeah)	17:50
ghostcube	:)	17:50
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ghostcube	wth apt-get update && apt-get upgrade arent working	17:51
zogg_laptop	SpeedEvil, what is stupid? i think it worked before i updated (pr1.1.1) i even don't remember what it did. after that it's nt working	17:51
ghostcube	*isnt	17:51
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plastun	does anybody install MeeGo to N900?	17:51
ghostcube	you cant combine commands by && in busybox?	17:51
MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, try hildon-im-recache as root	17:51
MohammadAG	ghostcube, you can	17:51
SpeedEvil	zogg: at least for me - the other way round - press symbol - hold symbol - press blue - release blue - does not work.	17:51
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SpeedEvil	zogg: nor does pressing them at the same time	17:51
* timeless_mbp looks for other people who could offer help		17:52
ghostcube	MohammadAG: hmmm my apt-get doesnt like it here ;(	17:52
SpeedEvil	Is everyone else not seeing this - or is it just me / my hardware?	17:52
zogg_laptop	SpeedEvil, all blue keys are working except Sym	17:52
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zogg_laptop	what does it do?	17:52
SpeedEvil	zogg: this is to start the symbol overlay	17:52
ghostcube	if you open an terminal and do fn+sym it should bring up a special sign table	17:53
SpeedEvil	zogg: of the hardware keyboard	17:53
timeless_mbp	zogg_laptop: does sym-eur give you a PIPE instead of a EUR?	17:53
jaska	press fn, release fn, press sym, release sym works for me	17:53
zogg_laptop	timeless_mbp, yes	17:53
SpeedEvil	ghostcube: Oh - that works too	17:53
timeless_mbp	ZogG: you have some keyboard layout installed, e.g. hebrew	17:53
BCMM	has anybody benchmarked the various browsers available for Maemo?	17:53
SpeedEvil	jaska: I mean	17:53
timeless_mbp	which breaks that stuff	17:53
BCMM	(and is it possible to change the default?)	17:53
dotblank	ugh takes like 20 mins to install extra decoders	17:54
ghostcube	anyone can confirm that apt-get update && apt-get upgrade dont work if you work in rootshell o.O	17:54
TomaszD	don't fret, I'm preparing a new version dotblank	17:54
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TomaszD	but it does pull in many deps	17:54
dotblank	TomaszD, :)	17:54
jaska	now i need to refiddle with the layout to get 4 arrows while keeping the a and o umlauts	17:55
TomaszD	should be a bit faster to install	17:55
mortal	could it be possible to use the e90 keyboard as a bluetooth keyboard for an n800	17:55
SpeedEvil	mortal: I've really not found the n900 keyb bad.	17:56
dotblank	Does video calling require extra decoders/	17:56
SpeedEvil	mortal: My laptop died for a week. I got up to ~30wpm	17:56
nidO	he said n800	17:56
nidO	and the e90's keyboard blows the n900's away anyway :p	17:56
zogg_laptop	hhahaha	17:57
jaska	i liked my jornada 720s kbd :\|	17:58
zogg_laptop	i went to uninstall the hebrew keyboard and it says - no apps installed	17:58
timeless_mbp	zogg_laptop: is it wrong?	17:59
zogg_laptop	re-opened appmanager solved it	17:59
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dotblank	can anyone test video calling with me. just put pr 1.2 on	18:02
rm_you	would if i could get my phone to boot	18:03
rm_you	<_<	18:03
BCMM	dotblank: skype really needs a video version of echo123	18:03
rm_you	i thought they had one	18:03
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dotblank	BCMM, Skype test call works with video?	18:04
BCMM	dotblank: no, but it should	18:04
dotblank	ah.. im getting abunch of cedec mismatch errors.. with video calling	18:04
dotblank	over gtalk	18:04
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MohammadAG	<BCMM> dotblank: skype really needs a video version of echo123 indeed	18:07
timeless_mbp	GAN900: right, so do we have a wiki page/	18:07
MohammadAG	<zogg_laptop> i went to uninstall the hebrew keyboard and it says - no apps installed	18:08
MohammadAG	open app manager and type killall apt-worker as root, you'll get the same effect :)	18:08
rm_you	charged battery seems to have the same effect... noted that when it is not plugged in, it just immediately turns off during the moving dots.	18:09
rm_you	is my n900 just fucked again?	18:09
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rm_you	seriously doubt quim is going to send me ANOTHER one <_<	18:09
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Aranel	whats the difference between USA and Global release?	18:11
luke-jr	I think it's more like USA vs UK vs Finland vs ...	18:11
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luke-jr	varied keyboards or such	18:12
MohammadAG	nope, keyboards are the same	18:12
luke-jr	O.o	18:12
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zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, nope, they are not	18:16
zogg_laptop	russian keyboard is different	18:16
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zogg_laptop	buttons are placed different	18:16
MohammadAG	zogg_laptop, the fw has the same files afaik, it's determined by something else	18:17
GAN900	timeless_mbp, for?	18:17
MohammadAG	just like the FMTX	18:17
thresh	long live the author of gps data logger widget.	18:18
E0x	so know i can try the nokia qt sdk just fine , i mean test the app create on it in the n900 without do anything special ?	18:19
thresh	and, of course, curse nokia for stupid ovi maps.	18:19
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rm_you	alright well, I booted up my other (broken USB) n900 with this battery, it starts up fine and reports well over half battery left. in my "not broken" (at least, physically) n900, it is still just immediately turning off after the NOKIA text and three seconds of the loading dots. T_T	18:20
E0x	hmm i was using mapper in pr1.1 and was very fine , why is not yet in extra ?	18:20
timeless_mbp	GAN900: sorry, which question	18:20
E0x	some bugs ?	18:20
timeless_mbp	GAN900: a) is there a wiki url explaining to people how to deal w/ OTA failure	18:21
rm_you	timeless_mbp: i may have to ask Quim whether he feels like shipping me ANOTHER n900. this time i'll ship him TWO broken ones back! <_<	18:21
timeless_mbp	...	18:22
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MohammadAG	rm_you, it could be your fault you know :)	18:23
MohammadAG	I'm still on 1 N900	18:23
rm_you	lol i did nothing this time :P	18:23
timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: i'm on n900s 4 and 5	18:23
MohammadAG	then how did it brick	18:23
rm_you	not that i did anything last time either, besides normal plugging and unplugging of USB	18:23
MohammadAG	timeless_mbp, what happened to 1 2 and 3?	18:23
rm_you	i was listening to pandora one day and it just turned off	18:23
rm_you	and since then it won't turn on	18:23
MohammadAG	bad luck	18:24
rm_you	which was about two weeks after Quim sent it to me <_<	18:24
MohammadAG	the very definition of it	18:24
timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: one of them was dropped and had a bad encounter with a tile floor	18:24
rm_you	I'm just glad I hadn't actually BOUGHT one	18:24
timeless_mbp	one of them decided that charging wasn't important	18:24
timeless_mbp	one's on permanent loan to an end user	18:24
timeless_mbp	(and despite him trying to drown it, it's doing quite well)	18:24
rm_you	the failure rate seems to be like... 75%	18:24
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rm_you	then again, people with problems are louder than people without	18:25
rm_you	so it must not be THAT bad... it must just coincidentally happen repeatedly to people I know :P	18:25
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timeless_mbp	GAN900: so, i'm considering taking wiki.maemo.org/ota_failed	18:26
RurouniJones	Hmm, how do you switch input with mscim on the N900?	18:26
RurouniJones	I accidentally did it but then it switched back	18:26
RurouniJones	And I cannot find the key combo to enable the Japanese input again	18:26
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MohammadAG	ctrl space	18:26
RurouniJones	Nuts, thta is what I thought, tried that and it didn't work	18:27
GAN900	timeless_mbp, I think there's already a page	18:27
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_gpg_	hi	18:27
RurouniJones	And now it worked again, cheers MohammadAG, think I need to do some more experimentation	18:27
timeless_mbp	GAN900: there's http://wiki.maemo.org/Cannot_install_firmware_update	18:28
MohammadAG	:)	18:28
timeless_mbp	but it's too long to make someone type!	18:28
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supertramp	:))))	18:28
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RurouniJones	Wooo! Jagged alliance 2 on the N900? Fantabulous	18:29
* RurouniJones goes and diggs out CD		18:30
supertramp	cannot remember when I had thigs soooooo screwed up	18:30
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Rinsmaster	I have 120MB free in /home, but the application manager is complaining about free application space.. Also apt-get works fine.. :/	18:31
MohammadAG	what about /?	18:31
MohammadAG	and MyDocs	18:31
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Rinsmaster	MohammadAG, 60MB free in / and 4GB free in MyDocs, which all should be enough, especially for a 200kb app -.-	18:32
Rinsmaster	It happened while restoring applications from my backup ( I just flashed to PR1.2)	18:32
MohammadAG	Rinsmaster, what do the logs say?	18:32
Rinsmaster	I'll check them out, good idea	18:33
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tripzero	so uh... OTA should work if you have the free space?	18:34
SpeedEvil	http://maemo.nokia.com/news/n900-gets-even-better-with-the-latest-update/	18:34
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zogg_laptop	oh, i know the secret	18:34
SpeedEvil	Err - my store does not apparantly contain 'new Ovi Store content like 3D Rollercoaster, QuickPanorama Pro, Angry Birds Level Pack, Sygic Mobile Maps and more. '	18:34
SpeedEvil	Does anyone elses?	18:34
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zogg_laptop	SpeedEvil, that's what was my secret	18:35
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zogg_laptop	the new ovi store...	18:35
zogg_laptop	wait for it	18:35
zogg_laptop	... is old one \o/	18:35
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zogg_laptop	TADA	18:35
Rinsmaster	MohammadAG, http://paste.debian.net/plain/75071	18:35
tripzero	lol	18:35
Rinsmaster	As far as I know, 8952 < 119463936	18:36
zogg_laptop	so how can i build the deb for maemo i a quickest way?	18:36
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: complain to peter@maemo ;-)	18:37
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MohammadAG	get a shed and a soldering iron	18:37
RurouniJones	So with PR1.2 Mad Developer is the way to go for Qt dev?	18:37
RurouniJones	No more scratchbox?	18:37
MohammadAG	Rinsmaster, hmm, don't see anything weird	18:37
MohammadAG	RurouniJones, who said that?	18:37
MohammadAG	new sdk packages were released	18:37
RurouniJones	Just based on past conversations in here it seemed that MADDE was the "new hotness"	18:38
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Rinsmaster	MohammadAG, So is there any way to possibly fix this?	18:38
MohammadAG	Rinsmaster, I'd use apt	18:39
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zogg_laptop	does sdk build deb?	18:39
MohammadAG	not without magic	18:39
GAN900	timeless_mbp, then make a redirect.	18:39
Rinsmaster	MohammadAG, that'd mean I always have to use apt instead of the app manager, I don't see that as a solution. I guess flashing the eMMC remains then?	18:39
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MohammadAG	Rinsmaster, try checking permissions?	18:40
MohammadAG	i'm just guessing here	18:40
MohammadAG	never seen that	18:40
timeless_mbp	GAN900: is anyone working to update that article to cover 1.2?	18:40
MohammadAG	actually, never used ham	18:40
timeless_mbp	it only talks about 1.1 :(	18:40
Pavlov	anyone know if thumb2 got broken in 1.2?	18:40
GAN900	timeless_mbp, no idea.	18:42
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GAN900	timeless_mbp, I don't have the energy to invest in a deadend wiki. :P	18:42
zogg_laptop	- PR1.3 — 1. QT Mobility \|Source : Urho Konttori (Nokia)	18:42
zogg_laptop	hmmmm	18:42
timeless_mbp	:)	18:43
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Aranel	is it enough to use backup app to get a backup before flashing, or any other steps necessary?	18:44
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MohammadAG	yeah	18:44
timeless_mbp	Aranel: depends on what you're trying to do	18:45
timeless_mbp	generally backing up, and only flashing the rootfs and then restoring should be good enough	18:45
nidO	generate a backup and, if you're paranoid or plan to flash the emmc, copy it to your pc	18:45
Aranel	timeless_mbp: I'll flash my device with Latest Maemo 5 USA release for N900	18:45
timeless_mbp	that was the design	18:45
* timeless_mbp hopes we don't have a usa release		18:46
timeless_mbp	if we do, it will have virtually 0 testing	18:46
Rinsmaster	MohammadAG, I found a bug report about my problem, only it seems like there's no solution yet. :/ https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10305	18:46
povbot`	Bug 10305: Application Manager in PR1.2 says not enough space even though there is.	18:46
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* microlith wonders what Nokia changed in the media player that reduced his visible album art down to two		18:46
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MohammadAG	hmm, that might be a blocker	18:46
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supertramp	ok - all data saved :}	18:47
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MohammadAG	Rinsmaster, reply on the bug report	18:48
Rinsmaster	I will	18:49
MohammadAG	with the log of course	18:49
andre___	but please no "me too" but more info :)	18:49
E0x	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54058	18:49
andre___	heh, yes. log welcome.	18:49
E0x	i was doing something like that	18:49
E0x	well not like that but relate	18:49
MohammadAG	andre___, yeah i noticed that my sentence was a bit spammy	18:49
MohammadAG	:)	18:49
E0x	i was doing a desktop indicator.	18:49
timeless_mbp	andre___: why is the pr1.2 version number randomly different in bugzilla from the previous ones?	18:50
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luke-jr	LOL	18:50
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andre___	timeless_mbp, because Bugzilla sucks and ASCII sorting came to the rescue	18:51
timeless_mbp	oh	18:51
andre___	(no sorting for Version numbers)	18:51
timeless_mbp	cheater	18:51
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timeless_mbp	cute	18:51
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andre___	timeless_mbp, was the only idea I had in the morning, being half asleep :-P	18:51
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zogg_laptop	is it old conversation widget or it's a new look ? http://maemo.nokia.com/images/app-screens/cache/conversations-inbox-widget-screen-400x240.png	18:58
rm_you	that's an app	18:58
rm_you	that's been around for a long time	18:58
spectre-	god	18:59
Shapeshifter	spectre-: yes?	18:59
spectre-	freebsd community are a bunch of pricks :o	18:59
spectre-	haha shape	18:59
spectre-	anyone have experience with dnsmasq on the n900?	18:59
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rm_you	that's how I felt about debian for a while	18:59
rm_you	so I'd ask all my linux questions in #gentoo, even though I used debian :P	19:00
rm_you	I just had to phrase them carefully and interpret the responses through a debian user's filter :P	19:00
zogg_laptop	rm_you, i know but it looks different	19:00
spectre-	well, the debian channel is really hardcore about staying on-topic, but i just got booted from #freebsd for having difficulty finding something in a gigantic man file	19:00
zogg_laptop	http://maemo.nokia.com/images/uploads/entry-media/features-mainpage-browser.jpg - that's how new ovi would look =)	19:00
rm_you	lololol	19:00
spectre-	so is pr1.2 out now?	19:00
RurouniJones	Japanese Input, Mnemosyne that works...I am a happy bunny, thank you PR1.2	19:01
spectre-	(can't see topic)	19:01
rm_you	yes	19:01
RurouniJones	spectre-: Yes	19:01
spectre-	sweeeeeet	19:01
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spectre-	can i ot?	19:01
spectre-	er	19:01
spectre-	ota?	19:01
rm_you	would love to run it but my n900 appears to be busted again. sigh	19:01
rm_you	will poke at it more after I sleep	19:01
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RurouniJones	spectre-: Yes	19:01
spectre-	sweet :)	19:02
Xisdibik	RurouniJones: Japanese input in PR1.2? where!?	19:02
RurouniJones	Topic set by DocScrutinizer!~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg on Wed May 26 15:18:07 2010	19:02
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RurouniJones	Whhops, stupid IRC client :)	19:02
roue	hola	19:02
RurouniJones	Xisdibik: install mscim and mscim-ja	19:02
zogg_laptop	Get the full internet experience by quickly accessing rich Adobe Flash content across the web.	19:02
DocScrutinizer	HUH??	19:02
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RurouniJones	To be honest, it isn't that great, there is some real wierdness with Kanji input	19:03
Xisdibik	RurouniJones: -testing, -devel? dont see it in the base repo	19:03
RurouniJones	But I am still experimenting, plus there is another package called plain old scim and scim-ja. They might be in devel	19:03
Xisdibik	RurouniJones: know if they are optified?	19:04
RurouniJones	Not a clue	19:04
* luke-jr has PR1.3		19:04
roue	I'm trying to use mod_deflate with a specific set of mime types and things with mime types I'm not specifying are still being sent with content-encoding: gzip. For instance, I specify "AddOutputFilterByType DEFLATE text/html text/plain text/javascript text/css" and a request that returns Content-Type: video/quicktime is being gzipped. Any ideas? thanks.	19:04
roue	er	19:04
RurouniJones	I upgraded an hour ago and have been installing stuff left right and centre so I can experiment on the train tomorrow	19:04
roue	wrong channel :)	19:04
roue	sorry.	19:04
* Xisdibik bows before the God, luke-jr		19:04
Xisdibik	RurouniJones: well, if you can find out if its optified that would be win	19:05
Xisdibik	:)	19:05
Trizt	timeless_mbp; you still need help with the themes thing?	19:05
RurouniJones	And now, bed. 1am and I was supposed to go to sleep 2 hours ago	19:05
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timeless_mbp	Trizt: yeah	19:05
RurouniJones	Xisdibik: If I remember, they ain't exactly big packages	19:05
timeless_mbp	does themes work for you?	19:05
RurouniJones	Night	19:05
rm_you	luke-jr: sweet, give me a copy of that and we'll see if my device can stay bricked even through a flash of that :P	19:05
MohammadAG	Night	19:05
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Trizt	timeless_mbp; I haven't tested in 1.2, worked fine in 1.1.1	19:05
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, any apps in the store yet?	19:05
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Xisdibik	RurouniJones: still, id prefer it to be optified :D	19:06
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timeless_mbp	Trizt: i'm going to push out one more 1.1.1 update	19:06
timeless_mbp	which i'd hope you'd get before you jump to 1.2	19:06
Trizt	timeless_mbp; sorry, but I flashed my phone yesterday	19:07
Trizt	timeless_mbp; in 1.2 it seems to work as well as it did in 1.1.1	19:07
timeless_mbp	ok	19:08
rm_you	timeless_mbp: do you know if there is any way to more thoroughly flash/reset the device than the flasher command on the wiki?	19:08
spectre-	is my sources.list supposed to be empty?	19:08
timeless_mbp	rm_you: once you move to 1.2, going back requires something people outside nokia don't have	19:09
spectre-	rm_you, flash the content as well	19:09
timeless_mbp	heck, it requires something most people inside nokia don't have	19:09
rm_you	how do i do that	19:09
rm_you	maybe that is the problem	19:09
Trizt	timeless_mbp; managed to uninstall the wrong package and had no option than flush, took mee quite many hours to get things back as I had them before	19:09
luke-jr	rm_you: sure, it's easy	19:09
timeless_mbp	but if you're not talking about going backwards	19:09
luke-jr	rm_you: dd if=/dev/zero of=PR1.3.img bs=1024 count=1024055	19:09
spectre-	there's instructions somewhere about it on nokias site	19:09
timeless_mbp	iirc you can actually specify both images in the flasher commadn line	19:09
luke-jr	rm_you: that will make the image :)	19:09
spectre-	i forget where :)	19:10
spectre-	but that'll reset the filesystem as well	19:10
spectre-	normally flashing only does the os	19:10
rm_you	luke-jr: rofl	19:10
rm_you	timeless_mbp: hrm k	19:10
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rm_you	spectre-: k will try that	19:10
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spectre-	read directions carefully :o	19:10
spectre-	so, is my sources.list supposed to be empty?	19:11
timeless_mbp	yes	19:11
spectre-	hm	19:11
timeless_mbp	spectre-: apt supports sources.list.d/*.list	19:11
spectre-	ahhh, thx	19:11
timeless_mbp	sources.list is for you to **** around with	19:11
timeless_mbp	but i'd suggest you use sources.list.d/<your-whatever>.list instead	19:11
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spectre-	yeah	19:12
spectre-	needed to clear out some bad repos	19:12
spectre-	and apps manager is bugged	19:13
rm_you	spectre-: don't see an option in the flasher-3.5 docs	19:13
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rm_you	timeless_mbp: specify both images?	19:13
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timeless_mbp	rm_you: there's a rootfs and a eMMC	19:14
timeless_mbp	a/and a/and an/	19:14
rm_you	ah	19:14
timeless_mbp	if you really want a clean thing	19:14
timeless_mbp	you'd want to flash both	19:14
rm_you	yes	19:14
rm_you	CLEAN	19:14
rm_you	factory wipe	19:14
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Trizt	I guess no one here know how much a taksi from Vantaa airport to train station costs nowadays?	19:15
rm_you	it says it can flash the eMMC image... but no where in the options does it say what flag to give	19:17
rm_you	do I just do the exact same command as for the firmware image, just with the eMMC bin?	19:17
TomaszD	rm_you, flash fiasco without the "-R" flag	19:18
TomaszD	and eMMC with it	19:18
timeless_mbp	Trizt: i'd expect ~30EUR	19:19
timeless_mbp	it's ~6EUR to use the Finnair bus	19:19
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Trizt	timeless_mbp; where do those stop? if you know	19:20
timeless_mbp	the finnair bus stops at the central railway station :)	19:20
timeless_mbp	(and the continental hotel, but...)	19:20
Trizt	timeless_mbp; okey, that would work fine	19:20
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timeless_mbp	it's a lot easier, runs regularly, something like every 20mins	19:20
timeless_mbp	there's a stop in front of both terminals	19:21
timeless_mbp	(finnair should pay me)	19:21
Trizt	yeah :)	19:21
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Trizt	I'll tell them when I buy the tickets :)	19:21
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Trizt	5% or is it 10% you want?	19:21
timeless_mbp	5% is fine :)	19:22
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Trizt	if resizing /home /home/user/MyDocs, then you need to get fdisk/parted from debian repo and do both system and emmc flashings?	19:23
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rm_you	fuck	19:26
Aranel	how to manually refresh the menu? I mean rebuilding the menu cache.	19:26
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MohammadAG	killall hildon-desktop	19:27
MohammadAG	slightly unclean, but who cares	19:27
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rm_you	well, flashed the eMMC image, then the firmware image, and it is still shutting down on the loading dots	19:27
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rm_you	anything lower level I can do to it?	19:28
MohammadAG	flash a kernel with fbcon enabled	19:28
rm_you	?	19:28
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rm_you	fbcon?	19:28
MohammadAG	framebuffer console	19:28
rm_you	k	19:29
rm_you	where can i get one of those that is compatible with PR1.2?	19:29
rm_you	I hope the answer isn't "build one yourself"	19:29
rm_you	kernel work was never my thing <_<	19:29
Aranel	MohammadAG: But It seems It still loads from some location, so it knows the location for app. I've removed witter, reinstalled it, killed hildon-desktop, still It shows up on same place.	19:29
Aranel	MohammadAG: I want to wipe that data, so It won't know where to place those apps. It's causing bugs on my installation.	19:30
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hurbu__	can i upgrade to 1.2 on linux desktop ?	19:30
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rm_you	trying it with rd mode enabled and setting no-lifeguard-reset	19:33
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spinningcompass	Which package has libjpeg in it?	19:34
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Milhouse	maemo bugzilla is performing like sh1t when posting comments	19:34
zogg_laptop	my interwebz are slooow	19:35
zogg_laptop	MohammadAG, no apps	19:35
rm_you	MohammadAG: hrm, with those flags set it has not shutdown yet, still in dots...	19:35
rm_you	much longer than before	19:35
lcuk	spinningcompass, on your console type "apt-cache search libjpeg"	19:35
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MohammadAG	rm_you, what flags?	19:35
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MohammadAG	oh	19:36
spinningcompass	lcuk: Thank you. :)	19:36
rm_you	YES	19:36
rm_you	it booted up	19:36
rm_you	lifeguard was killing it!?	19:36
MohammadAG	uhh	19:36
lcuk	rm_you, do not specify -R that flag is Reboot after completion	19:36
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rm_you	erm	19:36
rm_you	right	19:36
lcuk	just flash both, then take out battery	19:36
rm_you	that wasnt really an issue	19:37
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lcuk	ah k	19:37
rm_you	more like, it never booted to begin with :P	19:37
rm_you	apparently lifeguard was shutting it down during bootup	19:37
lcuk	are you still on a pre production device?	19:37
rm_you	dunno	19:37
rm_you	Quim just sent me this one like two weeks ago	19:37
rm_you	so i doubt it?	19:37
rm_you	could be tho	19:38
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Stskeeps	check hardware id	19:38
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rm_you	k	19:38
rm_you	rx-51 revision 2101	19:39
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Xisdibik	so has anyone else tried out the mscim mscim-ja packages that knows if its optified?	19:40
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rm_you	ok well when i plug in the power cable it now says "Not charging"	19:43
rm_you	and i put in a battery that had at least 3/4 life and it says it is empty and is making the battery low beep	19:43
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rm_you	is that something to do with R&D mode?	19:44
spinningcompass	rm_you: Is it the USB cable, or the power brick (PSU)?	19:47
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Shapeshifter	does someone know if its save to use the led pattern editor with pr1.2?	19:48
zlimvos	hey all. after upgrading to pr1.2 this new auto search thingy doesnt work for me. It works on contacts (like before) but not on app manager, not on media player to find music etc. any ideas what i should be looking for..?	19:48
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loufoque	I can't find how you're supposed to remove the battery of the N900	19:49
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loufoque	anyone has a link?	19:49
lcuk	o_O	19:49
SpeedEvil	loufoque: Axe.	19:50
Rabidus	:D	19:50
Xisdibik	how did you get your SIM card in loufoque ?	19:50
lcuk	loufoque, theres a fingernail tab on the back side of n900	19:50
lcuk	pull it and the back comes off	19:50
SpeedEvil	loufoque: Or you look round the back, and find the fingernail tab.	19:50
loufoque	I have removed the back cover already	19:50
Xisdibik	SpeedEvil: #1 sounds easier	19:50
Rabidus	:O	19:50
lcuk	i just push my stylus about 2 inches into the fingertab and twist	19:50
SpeedEvil	loufoque: bang it	19:50
SpeedEvil	slightly	19:50
SpeedEvil	it's not firmly in	19:50
SpeedEvil	or pull it out with a fingernail	19:50
Xisdibik	or use an axe?	19:50
Xisdibik	;)	19:50
SpeedEvil	Or a sucker, if you're an octopus.	19:51
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lcuk	loufoque, theres a fingernail tab also at one end of battery	19:51
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Xisdibik	SpeedEvil: I can think of something else that has good suction	19:51
loufoque	i tried to update my phone with nokia software updater	19:51
loufoque	it failed	19:51
loufoque	and now the phone is blocked	19:51
lcuk	Xisdibik, your girlfriend leave stoo much saliva	19:51
GAN900	wazd, ping?	19:51
rm_you	spinningcompass: either	19:51
lcuk	i had to mop up with a towel last time	19:51
Xisdibik	lcuk: lolol	19:51
Xisdibik	lcuk: i ment a vacuum. you perv :P	19:52
lcuk	Xisdibik, either way, you need to tellyour GF to stop drooling :p	19:52
spinningcompass	rm_you: It could be a hardware problem. Do you have a multimeter?	19:52
Xisdibik	hey lcuk or GAN900 or Speedy, if I install an app. how can i check if its installed in /opt?	19:52
rm_you	not handy	19:52
rm_you	could borrow one though	19:52
nocturnal	i'm confused about updating my n900 maemo fremantle with the new 1.2 update. does using the pc suite method from windows also require restoring backups as when you use the flasher method?	19:52
lcuk	Xisdibik, browse to opt and see whats there	19:52
Xisdibik	lcuk: that wasnt my gf, thats my dog.....	19:52
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nocturnal	in other words, is pc suite just a function for flashing the firmware like the flasher utility?	19:53
lcuk	sure Xisdibik i get them mixed up, both are hairy	19:53
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Xisdibik	lcuk: not my fault i dont like shaved women :p	19:53
lcuk	Xisdibik, speaking of which, did you every find out why her name is bob	19:53
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rm_you	Stskeeps: what does hardware revision 2101 mean?	19:54
Shapeshifter	rm_you: planned release date of PR1.3	19:54
Xisdibik	lcuk: yes, it was short for Bobbette	19:54
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Xisdibik	lcuk: im going to guess since i found scim in /opt/maemo/usr/share/scim that mscim is optified?	19:56
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lcuk	Xisdibik, thats potentially somewhat correct	19:57
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lcuk	i believe theres a package which shows space used by all pacakges	19:57
lcuk	and i cant remember its name	19:57
SpeedEvil	df	19:58
lcuk	no speedevil	19:58
lcuk	something that shows list of packages and how much each takes	19:58
SpeedEvil	I got halfway through writing one, then got distracted by something shiny.	19:59
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Bluewind	ideas why the option to use a sip accoutn for calls vanished with 1.2?	19:59
lcuk	http://wiki.maemo.org/Opt_Problem#Tool_for_detection_of_non-optified_packages	20:00
rm_you	the SEARCH option went away in the application manager?!	20:00
lcuk	Xisdibik, ^ SpeedEvil	20:00
Bluewind	also if I call the sip number the phone hangs up automatically	20:00
lcuk	rm_you, just type	20:00
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lcuk	its search inline	20:00
rm_you	k...	20:00
* rm_you mumbles about non-intuitive		20:00
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lcuk	rm_you, lists and grids in all operating systems do similar	20:01
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chadi	in PR1.2, can I make the menu scroll faster like PR1.1.1?	20:02
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chadi	please, it is terribly annoying	20:03
lcuk	chadi, an alternative why are you scrolling so often	20:04
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Shapeshifter	mh	20:05
chadi	because i like to...	20:05
chadi	:P	20:05
Shapeshifter	mediaplayer widget is also broken	20:05
Shapeshifter	can only pause/next/prev but not play	20:05
lcuk	chadi, you can rearrange menu to not have to scroll at all	20:05
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lcuk	is what im saying	20:05
chadi	lcuk: I know that, but I use all the stuff at all times	20:06
zlimvos	damn this is so annoying, auto search thingy doesnt work, and now search button on app.man	20:06
zlimvos	*no	20:06
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zlimvos	is there a deamon that does the inliune search? to see if it is running?	20:07
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lcuk	chadi, go and search on bugs.maemo.org to see if anyone filed similar, if not file a bug, i can enquire what can be done :)	20:08
lcuk	zlimvos, which bit of searching fails?	20:08
lcuk	does itbring up the textbox or just do nothing?	20:08
zlimvos	on application manager par example, does nothing	20:08
lcuk	are you on the app list?	20:09
lcuk	or just on the front screen of app man	20:09
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zlimvos	i tried on both screens (and download)	20:09
rm_you	Is there anything about R&D mode that would cause the battery to read incorrectly?	20:10
rm_you	or, I guess maybe I do just need a multimeter	20:10
zlimvos	ok then i see i was expecting to work for all type of apps, but i have to choose first 'games' and then type. then it works	20:10
lcuk	zlimvos, "both screens" ? front screen, download categories, applicaiton list	20:11
lcuk	the application list is the one with the search	20:11
MohammadAG	rm_you, never stay in R&D mode, I found out why a week ago	20:11
MohammadAG	(thankfully nothing bad happened, I just shrugged)	20:11
zlimvos	lcuk: then I guess there is no way to search for a word matching in all type of applications	20:11
lcuk	rm_you, what are you needing battery stuff?	20:11
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lcuk	zlimvos, click all	20:11
lcuk	..	20:11
zlimvos	o_o	20:12
chadi	lcuk: fine, will do :)	20:12
chadi	one more question, what's with the ctrl+shift+r?	20:12
Bluewind	any ideas why I can't use sip anymore to call someone/get called? (pr 1.2)	20:12
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rm_you	lcuk: one n900 says my battery is half charged, the other says it is empty and shuts off	20:13
rm_you	for both of my batteries	20:14
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lcuk	rm_you, then charge them?	20:15
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rm_you	they ARE charged	20:16
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lcuk	rm_you, how do you know?	20:19
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lcuk	if 2 devices are both telling you the same thing?	20:19
rm_you	no	20:19
rm_you	i said	20:19
rm_you	one device says it is more than half full	20:19
rm_you	the other says it is empty and shuts off	20:19
rm_you	for both of my batteries	20:19
lcuk	ok misunderstood	20:20
rm_you	thought maybe it was an R&D mode quirk or something <_<	20:20
Bluewind	nobody using sip with pr 1.2 here?	20:20
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PhonicUK	hey all	20:21
PhonicUK	anyone else finding that the browser behaves weird when using the arrow keys since 1.2?	20:21
MohammadAG	kind of	20:21
MohammadAG	can live with it	20:21
lcuk	rm_you, not heard of anything similar, are tehse official nokia batteries maintained normally, or have you been shoving them in places they arent meant to be	20:21
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PhonicUK	it keeps on scrolling after i let go :/	20:22
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rm_you	lcuk: had to charge them in N810, per the instructions Quim gave on his blog :P	20:22
rm_you	lcuk: since the n900 that works right doesn't have an attached USB port anymore, and the one that does have USB is just failing in general	20:23
Stskeeps	ah, right, it's possible to charge n900 battery in n810?	20:24
rm_you	supposedly	20:24
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rm_you	it worked for a few weeks at least	20:24
rm_you	appears to still be working, except this	20:24
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* ShadowJK tried battery in N810, but had too much trouble getting all 3 pins to make contact		20:27
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rm_you	thats what the stylus is for :P	20:27
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Bluewind	ok maybe someone knows why the jabber voice chat buttons also vanished?	20:28
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Bluewind	apparently skype still has call buttons	20:29
Corsac	Bluewind: I still have them	20:29
Corsac	plus video calls when available	20:29
Bluewind	jabber audio and sip?	20:29
Corsac	no mention of sip, but yeah, audio calls	20:30
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DocScrutinizer	rm_you: anyway battery charge guestimation is flawed, and I'm not surprised to hear it differs largely from one N900 to the other, with same battery	20:31
DocScrutinizer	rm_you: basically as soon as you remove the battery fro N900, it loses track of the cell's charge, and needs several full cycles to calibrate	20:32
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rm_you	it also says "not charging" when i plug it in	20:32
DocScrutinizer	now that's a real bug then	20:33
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rm_you	dunno if it is PR1.2 or the hardware	20:33
DocScrutinizer	probably you ruined the springs of the batteries when charging in N810	20:33
rm_you	it was fucked up before i flashed it	20:33
rm_you	so	20:33
rm_you	well, they both work in my other n900	20:34
rm_you	keep swapping back and forth to check	20:34
rm_you	it just happens that the other n900 (the one the batteries work fine in) doesnt have a USB port anymore	20:34
DocScrutinizer	hmm	20:34
DocScrutinizer	seems unrelated	20:35
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GAN900	rm_you, lol	20:35
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rm_you	GAN900: I want an android device with a snapdragon and a keyboard T_T	20:35
rm_you	i am seriously about to give up	20:35
DocScrutinizer	though not really, as the gaughe chip can't calibrate anymore due to missing charge cycle	20:36
GAN900	rm_you, oh, hush.	20:36
GAN900	Snapdragon sucks.	20:36
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rm_you	well, you know what i bought USED a year ago and still works?	20:37
rm_you	my G1	20:37
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rm_you	the n900 is freaking amazing and I love it more than I can express	20:37
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rm_you	but I'm tired of having to switch back to another phone when it breaks	20:37
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GAN900	Yeah, well, don't be such a big whore and they wont get jealous on you. g	20:38
lcuk	rm_you, im surprised you have so much tragedy with yours	20:38
lcuk	im still on the one i got in september	20:38
rm_you	hey, I only use my G1 when the n900 won't put out :P	20:38
lcuk	and other	20:38
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rm_you	lcuk: <_<	20:38
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GAN900	lcuk, me too.	20:39
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rm_you	whatever, i'm going to bed. i'll debug more in the ... evening	20:40
GAN900	Bed?	20:40
rm_you	going to bed at 1PM <_<	20:40
rm_you	been up since 3PM yesterday :/	20:40
rm_you	fuck my sleep schedule	20:41
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rm_you	I start work next tuesday 8-5	20:41
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GAN900	Oops	20:46
lcuk	lighters with torches built in. genius	20:48
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jaska	for a min there i was confused, then realized its the english version of flashlight	20:48
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GAN900	jaska, yeah, no pitchforks, unfortunately. ;)	20:57
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Dassu	Is it normal that PR 1.2 requires PC to upgrade the device?	21:01
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Xisdibik	thats disappointing GAN900	21:05
Xisdibik	I wanted to turn my n900 into the perfect werewolf hunting device	21:06
lcuk	Xisdibik, with the Buffy pack, it works for vampires	21:06
lcuk	replaces the stylus with a wooden stake	21:06
Sargun_Screen	what's the easiest way to make the n900 vibrate from python	21:06
Xisdibik	lol	21:06
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Xisdibik	lcuk: does it come with Buffy?	21:07
lcuk	Sargun_Screen, dbus call	21:07
* N900evil drools.		21:07
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Sargun_Screen	lcuk: which one	21:07
lcuk	see jebbas wiki pages about dbus calls and search	21:07
ZogG	i have some program	21:07
ZogG	trying to run it	21:08
lcuk	health check is python	21:08
lcuk	and has tests for vibe	21:08
lcuk	so dig into its code	21:08
ZogG	i got sh blabla permission denied	21:08
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lcuk	ZogG, yeah needs root	21:08
ZogG	i used chmod +x and chmod +x	21:08
ZogG	nothing	21:08
lcuk	chomod on MyDocs does nothing	21:08
ZogG	lcuk, tried from root =)	21:08
lcuk	chmod	21:08
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ZogG	lcuk from root as well?	21:09
lcuk	mydocs cannot accept +x	21:09
pupnik	fat cannot	21:09
lcuk	hey pupnik	21:09
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lcuk	Xisdibik, what kind of question is that	21:10
lcuk	and why do you ask	21:10
Xisdibik	haha i was curious	21:10
pupnik	hi lcuk	21:11
lcuk	Xisdibik, what kind of personal use	21:11
lcuk	i have many computers here	21:11
Xisdibik	like your everyday use it all the time one	21:11
lcuk	i use 2	21:11
Xisdibik	are they PC's macs, linux? :p	21:12
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lcuk	one (the one im talking in now) is windows xp desktop headless, run through vnc, onto my x200s laptop	21:12
pupnik	woo for x200s	21:13
pupnik	anything it does worse than x41?	21:13
lcuk	and the code window notes browser mail and other stuff is VVVVV on the main laptop screen	21:13
MohammadAG	UGH	21:13
MohammadAG	C code is hard to edit	21:13
pupnik	like does keyboard feel cheaper?	21:13
lcuk	yeah pupnik its not touchable	21:13
Xisdibik	x200s laptop?	21:13
Sargun_Screen	lcuk: no luck finding said page, link?	21:13
lcuk	cant easily write/test applicaitons for touching when i cant touch and interact with them ;)	21:14
pupnik	yes, some later lenovo kbds arent as nice as ibm's	21:14
pupnik	ohh no touchscreen	21:14
Xisdibik	lcuk: ah a lenovo laptop :)	21:14
Xisdibik	Thinkpad	21:14
Sargun_Screen	lcuk: nevermind	21:15
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Xisdibik	bbl	21:15
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lcuk	Sargun_Screen, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=maemo+jebba+dbus	21:15
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Sargun_Screen	lcuk: yeah, I was using maemo.org search	21:17
MohammadAG	andre___, shall I close bug 10159	21:18
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10159 "Longpress special character" breaks console applications in X Terminal	21:18
GAN900	Anybody know what Ovi's getting the promised new content?	21:18
MohammadAG	soon :)	21:18
andre___	MohammadAG, I'd keep it for the time being. On the other hand, osso-xterm in Maemo5 seems to be quite dead.	21:19
MohammadAG	andre___, well fixing it would result in breaking another bug	21:19
MohammadAG	andre___, and there's already a package which fixes (or unfixes bug 5421) it	21:20
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5421 keys when long pressed should give the blue symbol/number	21:20
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andre___	MohammadAG, in that case I'd say: Do what you think is right. (Because you've got some really good arguments.) :)	21:23
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MohammadAG	andre___, I always ask for a second opinion, so... anyone?	21:24
andre___	MohammadAG, I'm in! :-D	21:24
MohammadAG	third opinion? :)	21:24
andre___	wait, let me log in under a different name	21:25
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wolf^	personally I'd vote for a proper fix for xterm	21:26
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FredrIQ	lol	21:26
kthomas_vh_	Stskeeps, if you're around, I was told to ask you about getting my n810 to recognize the internal flash as memory again, after booting from flash (mine says the card is 'formatted incorrectly', even if I reformat)...	21:26
FredrIQ	i'm used to the "more" icon	21:26
andre___	wolf^, which is highly unlikely for Maemo5	21:26
wolf^	I know	21:26
FredrIQ	i end up turning on Settings everytime i access the menu	21:26
FredrIQ	:P	21:26
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andre900	MohammadAG: I totally agree! And I'm really not andre, I swear! ;-)	21:28
MohammadAG	hehehe :)	21:29
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N900evil	how does it break xterm?	21:30
N900evil	wfm	21:30
kamui	I	21:30
kamui	love	21:30
kamui	pr1.2	21:30
kamui	which doesn't really do anything new	21:30
kamui	but it feels fast	21:30
lcuk	\o/	21:30
kamui	also, Im happy gles was fixed	21:31
FredrIQ	it fixes a LOT of bugg	21:31
FredrIQ	bugs*	21:31
* kamui has been struggling with descent controls for the whole morning		21:31
FredrIQ	and upgrades random packages	21:31
FredrIQ	it deleted my awesome q2tab mod. ;(	21:31
* FredrIQ must put it in again.. sometime		21:31
FredrIQ	:(*	21:31
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johnsq	Hi	21:33
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zeevqwr	hi, how to enable videocalling for skype?	21:34
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zeevqwr	can you read my posts?	21:36
Trizt	zeevqwr; go to your addressbook, select te contact you want to call and click on the "skype video call" button	21:36
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zeevqwr	i have only regular skype call and IM	21:39
zeevqwr	no video...	21:39
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zeevqwr	(i did update)	21:39
Trizt	did you updated to pr1.2?	21:39
zeevqwr	yes, today...	21:40
Trizt	could be that your contact don't support video calls	21:40
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zeevqwr	i got some new stuff	21:40
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Trizt	I found one of my contacts who don't and therfor I don'ät have the video call button	21:41
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zeevqwr	a really? how can he enable it?	21:41
Trizt	depends on hos skype client, if it don't have the "Video Device" in his options, then not without upgrading client to a newer	21:42
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ghostcube_maemo	my sd works again	21:43
zeevqwr	thank you!	21:43
Trizt	zeevqwr; among the "video device" settings there is an option "Enable Skype Video", this has to be checked	21:43
ghostcube_maemo	after i upgraded it startet working	21:43
Trizt	ghostcube_maemo; I had problems with my sd, but than it was -10 degrees	21:44
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Dassu	Flashing the device with USB cable doesn't remove the Backups right?	21:44
Trizt	Dassu; depends on how you flash, if you do the single flash, then no, but if you do the dural (including emmc) then yes	21:45
ghostcube_maemo	Trizt: it stoped after reflashing, now after apt-get upgrade it works again	21:45
lcuk	Dassu, backups stored in MyDocs are safe unless you flash the EMMC image	21:45
ghostcube_maemo	so i dont know what caused it	21:45
Trizt	ghostcube_maemo; I noticed that if you have the back cover open, then the sd won't be accesseble	21:46
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ghostcube_maemo	it was definetly anything with the n900 . in an card reader it worked fine	21:46
ghostcube_maemo	Trizt: hmm yeah but this wasent the prob	21:47
ghostcube_maemo	:)	21:47
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Trizt	IMHO it's quite silly to disable the SD when the back cover is open, you need to remove the battery first before you can remove it	21:48
defragger	is anyone able to see the program "bc" in the extras-devel repository?	21:49
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Kegetys	you dont need to remove the battery	21:50
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Trizt	Kegetys; sorry, but you are right	21:51
lcuk	defragger, http://maemo.org/packages/	21:52
pupnik	"No portrait keyboard" must piss some folks off :)	21:52
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lcuk	pupnik, i see at least 2 portrait keyboards	21:54
Trizt	wouldn't the keys bee minimalistic small?	21:54
pupnik	dunno. n900 is a two hand device for me. get e72 if you want a phone	21:55
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lcuk	Trizt, t9	21:56
kamui	man	21:56
pupnik	i saw ppl claim 100* MB free after flashing pr1.2 - true?	21:56
lcuk	yes	21:57
lcuk	easily	21:57
GAN900	Stuff was optified.	21:57
lcuk	ive >100mb for a cleanflas	21:57
lcuk	its^	21:57
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Trizt	pupnik I had 92MB after flash	21:57
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pupnik	finally i got to see real phone stores with decent selection lcuk	21:58
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Trizt	any date on when adobe releases flash 10 for arm?	21:58
pupnik	the amoled phones are sweet	21:58
lcuk	pupnik, where have you been?	21:58
pupnik	finland	21:58
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lcuk	Trizt, ask adobe	21:59
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pupnik	i will never like typing on-screen. never	21:59
Trizt	lcuk; they said ask at #maemo ;)	21:59
kamui	hi pupnik!	22:00
kamui	I love typing on screen	22:00
lcuk	Trizt, well wheres the source	22:00
Trizt	on their home page	22:00
pupnik	off to the rice paddies with kamui	22:00
lcuk	really? link to source download for flashplayer?	22:01
lcuk	10	22:01
Trizt	no, I think it was for 11 :P	22:01
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lcuk	Trizt, sure, where	22:02
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m	maemouser	22:07
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Funnyface	damn I hate when someone phones me in the middle of something on the N900 :p	22:09
Funnyface	it's just as annoying as the lame ending on that N900 video where you get a phone call from your mum :>	22:09
aSIMULAtor	im glad you like my acting	22:10
aSIMULAtor	;)	22:10
lcuk	aSIMULAtor, o_O what are you acting at now	22:11
aSIMULAtor	acting at	22:11
aSIMULAtor	possibly going to sleep	22:11
aSIMULAtor	at 10pm	22:11
aSIMULAtor	which is early as hell	22:11
lcuk	lol	22:11
petteri	hmmm.. I took couple of picture today. Earlier I saw those in pictures, but now they are gone. File still exists. Any way to refresh the picture browser view	22:11
aSIMULAtor	but i feel like poo	22:11
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aSIMULAtor	i'm good at acting like poo	22:11
maemouser	hello is there any difference between updating the device from pc or via application updater?	22:11
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lcuk	maemouser, only that one completely reflashes, the other tries to upgrade whats there	22:12
frals	cant go to bed now, its eurovision song contest qualifiers! ;)	22:12
lcuk	backup properly before either	22:12
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aSIMULAtor	huh	22:13
aSIMULAtor	eurovision qualifying again	22:13
* lcuk renames aSIMULAtor as MyHankyulator		22:13
aSIMULAtor	i thought that was 2 days ago or something	22:13
lcuk	Mr	22:13
* lcuk cant type		22:13
MohammadAG	bacon shortage?	22:13
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frals	aSIMULAtor: half was then last half is now	22:13
lcuk	MohammadAG, certainly	22:14
maemouser	i will backup but i wonder if any file remains when i update via application updater	22:14
lcuk	i need bacon and chocolate and other things to sustain me	22:14
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MohammadAG	chocolate?	22:14
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* MohammadAG hates that		22:14
maemouser	such as the update package itself	22:14
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lcuk	maemouser, what do you mean	22:15
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redeeman	anyone that has managed to revert the onscreen keyboard?	22:15
aSIMULAtor	just ate some chocoalte	22:15
MohammadAG	redeeman, I'll start experimenting with it soon	22:15
* lcuk cant eat chocolate or bacon until teeth are fixed		22:16
MohammadAG	right now i'm trying to get back menu kinteic scrolling	22:16
redeeman	MohammadAG: if you could let me know if you succeed or have new results i'd apreciate it, and who knows, maybe i can help	22:16
redeeman	unfortunately im VERY busy the next few days, i have to go to the phillipines	22:16
lcuk	and my coffee tastes like crap with no sugar	22:16
mazer_	hmm, this software updater suggests that we no longer need to flash?	22:16
lcuk	i might start drinking tea	22:16
lcuk	anyone know any nice ones to brew	22:16
MohammadAG	lcuk, add sugar :)	22:16
lcuk	cant!	22:16
MohammadAG	redeeman, no promises though	22:16
lcuk	dentist told me off	22:17
redeeman	ahh i was just at the dentist today :) zero holes	22:17
mazer_	lcuk: "can't"	22:17
redeeman	MohammadAG: i understand	22:17
MohammadAG	lcuk, screw him	22:17
MohammadAG	:)	22:17
SpeedEvil	lcuk: Sweetner.	22:17
MohammadAG	or that	22:17
lcuk	mazer, whats the matter with missing off a few ' its not like they are required and wont let me ingest sugar	22:17
lcuk	SpeedEvil, even more evil	22:18
mazer_	lcuk: because "im" is not "i'm", "theyre" is not "they're" and "cant" is not "can't"	22:18
mazer_	mohammad: you updated to pr1.2?	22:18
MohammadAG	yea	22:18
mazer_	mohammad: the software updater rm's everything?	22:18
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mazer_	like with the flasher, or whatever	22:18
defragger	is this a packet i am able to install through the application manager? : http://maemo.org/packages/view/bc/	22:18
mazer_	a packet?	22:19
MohammadAG	which updater?	22:19
MohammadAG	App manager?	22:19
mazer_	mohammad: "Nokia Software Updater"	22:19
evo	hello, I was using a script to monitor GPRS traffic (with gconftool calls), but /sys/osso/connectivity keys seems gone	22:19
Dassu	Hmm	22:19
mazer_	mohammad: http://www.softsailor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Nokia-Software-Updater-500x381.png	22:19
MohammadAG	mazer_, same as flasher	22:19
MohammadAG	so yes	22:19
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mazer_	mohammad: ah.	22:20
MohammadAG	it removes everything except MyDocs	22:20
Dassu	Maan. Sucks to flash my device just for n900. I will lose my desktop icons and propably some things I have no idea about. Wonder if all of my apps will lose their settings	22:20
mazer_	fair enough.	22:20
mazer_	Dassu: your desktop icons! oh no!	22:20
Dassu	:D	22:20
Dassu	Dude, I have a lot of bookmarks on my desktop	22:20
lcuk	Dassu, just backup and then restore afterwards	22:21
joga	wow, how do they fit?	22:21
joga	;)	22:21
* Dassu prefers to place bookmarks on the desktop		22:21
lcuk	the backup tool is very good	22:21
wazd	GAN900: pong :)	22:21
alterego	I used backup and restore and got all my icons back.	22:21
Dassu	lcuk: does restore the shortcuts?	22:21
alterego	Even restored my conboy data	22:21
lcuk	desktop icons all come back once apps are installed again	22:21
pupnik	backups include desktop bookmarks?	22:21
mazer_	I wonder what I'd want to backup	22:21
lcuk	yeah	22:21
pupnik	k	22:21
lcuk	its very good at what it does :)	22:21
mazer_	backups include packages?	22:21
joga	a package list, I think	22:21
Dassu	also I have recreate my ssh+irssi shortcut. Also I have to limit my number of desktops to 2 once again	22:21
mazer_	eh.	22:21
Dassu	lol, I have little memory about htat	22:22
lcuk	it backs up all apps that have config files in the backup settings folder ;)	22:22
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joga	lcuk huh?	22:22
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mazer_	think i'd rather rm -rf and start over.	22:22
lcuk	mazer_, it even backs up your repository selections	22:22
lcuk	and network settings	22:22
lcuk	and furry dice	22:22
mazer_	I'm running pr1.2-beta or whatever.	22:22
joga	Dassu: why limit the desktop?	22:22
lcuk	oh crap	22:22
sandstorm	sorry I was on my N900 could not type and read efficiently so briefly do you suggest me to update maemo via pc so that it makes a fresh reflash cleaning up everything behind ?	22:22
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joga	(and btw where's that 9-desktop thing...)	22:23
mazer_	I just want half decent gas/gcc support	22:23
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mazer_	might work on clang/llvm porting	22:23
Dassu	joga: Faster to scroll	22:23
mazer_	when I feel better	22:23
Dassu	joga: simpler	22:23
joga	Dassu: yeah, I was thinking of 3 but all four I have are already full of stuff	22:23
Dassu	joga: when you have 2 desktops you end up with the second desktop no matter where you scroll to	22:23
mazer_	lcuk: metasploit is half nice on n900.	22:24
joga	the 9-way desktop would be nice, it has the same wrapping effect	22:24
Dassu	joga: I have very little stuff on my second desktop	22:24
joga	(and much more space)	22:24
lcuk	i have over 9000 desktops	22:24
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lcuk	only kidding, i just use the normal 4 ;)	22:24
joga	Dassu: I've mostly gathered shortcuts to apps that I find useful, so I don't need to hunt them from the app list	22:25
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joga	and couple of the widgets take a lot of space. not that they're very useful but hey, they may look cool ;)	22:25
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mazer_	lcuk: wmii	22:29
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sandstorm	sorry for repeating, I am maemouser, is there any difference between SSU update and Nokia Software Updater update while updating the firmware	22:30
kthomas	ok, what determines where partitions are mounted upon boot?	22:30
lcuk	mazer_, after telling me off about ' i would have thought you would use english :p	22:30
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mazer_	lcuk: what did I say that confused you?	22:30
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tybollt	lala	22:31
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lcuk	sandstorm, SSU is inprocess single packages updates which aims to retain running system. flashing is like reformatting windows and starting again. however in both cases use the backup tool because you dont do a big update like this without backing up, right!?	22:31
lcuk	mazer_, wmii	22:31
mazer_	lcuk: yes? http://wmii.suckless.org/	22:31
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joga	kthomas: you mean, fstab?	22:32
tybollt	\o_	22:32
tybollt	-o/	22:32
kthomas	joga, clearly not fstab :)	22:32
sandstorm	lcuk: sure thing for backing up, just curiousity does flashing wipe out everything ?	22:32
tybollt	/o/	22:32
sandstorm	lcuk: instead of memory card I guess ?	22:33
joga	kthomas: can you rephrase your question?	22:33
kthomas	because fstab says to boot the internal card on mmc1	22:33
kthomas	*mount	22:33
kthomas	and instead it mounts on mmc2	22:34
lcuk	sandstorm, the contents of MyDocs is not touched by either SSU or reflashing normally	22:34
kthomas	not to mention anything else I put in fstab is pretty much ignored for boot purposes	22:34
lcuk	the only way to wipe out MyDocs is to flash the EMMC image	22:34
kthomas	is it bootloader which determines?	22:34
lcuk	mazer_, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGUKICDeok	22:34
lcuk	thats my comeback	22:34
sandstorm	lcuk: so I am guessing all the apps are stored in MyDocs folder	22:35
sandstorm	sorry for my ignorance	22:35
lcuk	no	22:35
lcuk	the backup would be	22:35
lcuk	and your photos are	22:35
lcuk	and movies etc	22:35
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lcuk	SSU doesnt remove the applications, it does an inplace upgrade	22:35
bfree	anyone noticed their N900 slowing down? I guess I might need a reboot ... current uptime 50 days :-p	22:35
lcuk	and would not need you to restore afterwards	22:36
lcuk	because everything should still be there	22:36
lcuk	but if you reflash you come back with system default apps	22:36
lcuk	and you can restore from your backup and bring everything back	22:36
sandstorm	hmm	22:37
sandstorm	I see	22:37
lcuk	im going beering anyway >>	22:37
sandstorm	btw that liqbase seems rocking and thanks to your for presenting that to us	22:37
sandstorm	*you	22:37
sandstorm	thanks very much for the info btw	22:38
lcuk	sandstorm, :) ta its just been in a bit of a hibernation stage recently whilst some other things are sorted	22:38
sandstorm	are you the/a developer of that?	22:39
lcuk	yeah	22:39
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sandstorm	as it says; maybe the first creative application of N900 (or a major one)	22:40
sandstorm	simple and effective	22:41
sandstorm	nicely thought	22:41
lcuk	sandstorm, thats the onedotzero stuff :)	22:41
lcuk	http://maemo.nokia.com/videos/onedotzero-adventures-in-motion-powered-by-nokia-n900/	22:41
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lcuk	the n900 controller is written ontop of liqbase engine	22:42
sandstorm	I see	22:42
lcuk	but anyway, beer is calling	22:42
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lcuk	cya later #maemo \p	22:42
lcuk	\o	22:42
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sandstorm	see you around	22:43
sandstorm	bon apetité	22:43
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tybollt	lcuk: o/	22:43
tybollt	grenoullie apetite	22:43
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BCMM	anyone using Qtirreco?	22:45
kthomas	boot does not read fstab, known bug:	22:45
kthomas	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2575	22:45
povbot`	Bug 2575: changes to fstab (mount mmc as /home) ignored on device startup	22:45
kthomas	fstab not used on n810...	22:45
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bfree	anybody else reached months of uptime on an N900? without problems?	22:46
tybollt	no	22:47
tybollt	it is not a competition	22:47
tybollt	so stop that	22:47
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joga	I've often ran out of battery so it's a hard thing to do with a cell phone	22:47
mazer_	lcuk: I'm unable to visit youtube	22:47
visz	i have quite impressive downtime with my first N900	22:48
visz	HTH HAND	22:49
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bfree	I'd no reason to shut it down or anything, so I'm not entering a competition, just curious why it's behaving a little odd (and seems to have been degrading over the last week or two)	22:49
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joga	bfree: do you get cpu usage (unresponsiveness of the gui) when you flick the locking switch to turn it on?	22:50
bfree	not just flicking the locking switch, but yes	22:50
joga	often there's also some thumbnailing going on at the background so it may slow it down at times for a while	22:50
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joga	but if you see hildon-home taking 100% for a few secs when you open lock, booting probably helps, or killing hildon-home	22:51
joga	I think it's some widget bug or whatever, or, at least was in pr1.1	22:51
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caotic	I didnt forsee pr1.2 "uninstalling" all my applications	22:53
red	just installed canola2	22:54
joga	caotic: did you do over over-the-air update?	22:54
red	works great but cant type in dialogs	22:54
bfree	guess I'll leave top running and see if I can catch it in the act ;-) or else I'll install that kexec capable kernel and give myself an excuse to reboot it :-p	22:54
red	like last.fm logins or naming playlists :(	22:54
caotic	joga: mm define over the air ? since the n900 required to use the nokia suite	22:55
joga	caotic: so you flashed it? did you take a backup first?	22:55
joga	caotic: over the air would be with the app manager's update thingy	22:56
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caotic	joga: I did backup, but only in the device, I cant find the backup utility under settings	22:57
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joga	caotic: if you have the backup that you made on the n900, I think you just need to restore that and the programs will be reinstalled	22:57
joga	haven't tried it though, but I saw someone here saying they did that	22:58
sandstorm	can we use freshly released meego 1.0 on N900 officially ?	22:58
caotic	I see, I think that I was looking on the wrong place at first	22:58
joga	sandstorm: I think meego will never be officially on the n900	22:58
lcuk	caotic, its on the main menu	22:58
lcuk	not in settings ;)	22:58
* lcuk raises a glass		22:58
caotic	lcuk: joga yup,	22:59
sandstorm	joga: hmm I did not know that	22:59
sandstorm	I was thinking maemo will transit to meego when the time comes	22:59
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joga	I think hacks will be made but nokia said that they don't intend meego to be supported on the n900	22:59
joga	who knows, maybe it'll just work without a hitch but it's not their priority	23:00
sandstorm	oh I see but it's a bit weird than imho, merging with intel and not supporting it on devices.	23:00
caotic	joga: really ? I thougth that the n900 was the only device that could use mego	23:00
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sandstorm	*then	23:00
visz	i tried meego live image on my laptop today	23:00
visz	it had wonderful colourscene	23:01
sandstorm	caotic: same here	23:01
sandstorm	not the only	23:01
visz	crayonic	23:01
sandstorm	but the capable device	23:01
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joga	though the first google hit says something like this http://theunlockr.com/2010/05/27/meego-1-0-available-for-download-for-nokia-n900-and-atom-based-netbooks/	23:01
b-man	hmm, got a very strange PM O_o	23:01
b-man	<faridcmi> your to sleep well	23:01
sandstorm	hmm interesting	23:02
joga	the second hit is the nokia blog that says "Although Nokia N900 devices are being used for platform development and testing purposes by those involved in the MeeGo project, Nokia doesn’t have plans for a full scale commercial MeeGo upgrade on the Nokia N900."	23:02
sandstorm	is that an official response from an author?	23:02
joga	http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/	23:02
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alterego	Id on't know how many times Nokia are going to have to say that exact same thing before it actually sinks in.	23:04
alterego	I also don't get this whole, we want someting that doesn't exist yet yesterday attitude :/	23:04
GAN900	alterego, they should really make it a press release	23:04
sandstorm	"Nokia realises this news may be a disappointment for some" <-- talking about me	23:04
GAN900	To let everybody know how little they really care. ;)	23:05
alterego	Heh	23:05
alterego	You're such an optimist GAN :P	23:05
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kthomas	swap?	23:05
alterego	I have to say though, I'm quite happy with PR1.2	23:05
Zucca	Ok... Where's the search funtion in App manager now? After an update it disappeared. Should I reboot?	23:05
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alterego	Makes everything much more snappier.	23:05
sandstorm	I was enthusiastic about intel and nokia collaboration over MeeGo on N900	23:05
Zucca	In Maemo 5 I mean.	23:06
alterego	Zucca: just type, the option in the menu has been replaced by just typing whilst viewing a category	23:06
caotic	Zucca: refresh the mirrors	23:06
b-man	xnt14: !!!	23:06
lcuk	Zucca, go into all category and start typing	23:06
Zucca	alterego: Ah. Nice. Thanks. :)	23:06
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Zucca	alterego: Does it also search from descs?	23:06
xnt14	b-man: Hello. :P	23:07
alterego	Zucca: name and short desc I believe	23:07
lcuk	it searches on pretty much anywhere in maemo with a grid/list	23:07
Kegetys	I be it will take a few generations for meego to become polished anyway so maemo may be better anyway for N900	23:07
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Zucca	This is great. :) Thanks everyone. \o	23:07
joga	and if the devs already run it on n900 it will work, official or not	23:07
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b-man	xnt14: 8P	23:07
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lcuk	alterego, :) glad pr1.2 is working for you	23:07
tuliobaars	:)	23:08
alterego	Kegetys: until the community develop a MeeGo that has all the features users expect from the N900 right now, no user should replace maemo with meego	23:08
xnt14	b-man: lol	23:08
Kegetys	which is also quite silly in my opinion, just when maemo is made mature it is thrown out and replaced with meego :P	23:08
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alterego	lcuk: yeah, just makes the device smoother :)	23:08
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alterego	Kegetys: I think MeeGo is probably the best decision Nokia have made in a long time.	23:09
alterego	Kegetys: just above actually using Linux in a device path.	23:09
alterego	They were doing it before Google, hell, Google don't really do it anyway.	23:09
Kegetys	well, I just hope intel wont convince nokia to go for x86	23:10
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sandstorm	I have pr1.1 right now so depending on your "glad pr1.2 is working for you" statement might I not upgrade to the new firmware?	23:10
alterego	I can imagine in the future, Google will write their own kernel and Android will not have a single element of Linux in it :D	23:10
tuliobaars	people!	23:10
alterego	sandstorm: I think his comment is just because I'm pretty happy with it, but there are a lot of people that were expecting more and obviously arse still complaining about the lack of features.	23:10
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alterego	sandstorm: we all pretty much new what PR1.2 would bring, and it has indeed brought everything on that list. It is definitely an improvement to 1.1.1, I can't see a single reason not to upgrade :)	23:11
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caotic	Does anyone thinks that the n900 stand (the "leg" that holds the n900 as a picture frame) is a joke ?	23:12
tuliobaars	How can i improve the OS2008 transitions/animations, like in Canola; Opera or Firefox? I'd like all OS with a flip and that things...is there a way?	23:12
alterego	Basically, don't listen to the trolls, 1.2 is a good upgrade, as you'd expect.	23:12
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MaikB	hi folks	23:12
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sandstorm	alterego: since we dont have a downgrade option, I am a bit worried if something is wrong depending on people currently experiencing the new one	23:13
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sandstorm	alterego: I see, thank you for enlightening :)	23:13
alterego	sandstorm: well, there is always a risk, but you can't really break it beyond repair unless you do something really silly.	23:13
alterego	Admittedly, I prefer flashing over OTA, feels cleaner.	23:14
sandstorm	alterego: hmm, good point, I was thinking to flash it over Nokia Software Updater	23:14
alterego	So, I backed up using the backup application, flashed following the appropriate flashing procedure, and then did a restore. And everything is just as I had it before, better infac, obviously :)	23:15
MaikB	[N900][Skype][Video] Gents, I tried to video-call my notebook (which has a cam built in) which runs skype with another account. It didn't work. Anyone here had more success and give me a heads up what I've might done wrong?	23:15
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sandstorm	alterego: what is the rationale beyond thinking that way ? suggesting OTA over NSU ?	23:15
sandstorm	I mean what are your claims	23:15
MohammadAG	wiki.maemo.org borked?	23:16
tuliobaars	N900 just $285: http://bnnshop.com/proView.php?proid=341	23:16
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alterego	sandstorm: well, I've done OTA's in the past and not had a problem, but my reasoning is, if you flash it, there is no possibility of having redundant information on the root filesystem, as you're effectively reformatting it at the same time.	23:16
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caotic	MohammadAG: yeah the webpage has been sluggish	23:16
alterego	And I'm a stickler for upgrading with a clean slate :)	23:16
alterego	Or tablet ^.^	23:17
sandstorm	tuliobaars: brand: Nikon ?	23:17
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sandstorm	alterego: so keeping in mind that, cant we say flashing would be cleaner and fresher so might be better with a chance(small or not)	23:18
tuliobaars	is there real?	23:19
sandstorm	so that NSU would be better than OTA ?	23:19
alterego	sandstorm: well, I guess I also think it's better, because when you're doing it, you're sitting calmly at your desk, preparing for it. So you're less likely to screw it up, and as the process is much quicker than an OTA even if you do do something wrong, you'll probably be able to flash your device about 5 times in the time it takes to do the OTA :)	23:19
alterego	So, as long as you've backed up your data, flashing is much faster.	23:20
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flux	well, there's also the possibly long stage or restoring all apps from the net ;)	23:20
sandstorm	so you changed your advice to NSU update, not the OTA one right ? :)	23:21
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BCMM	anyone successfully imported infrared codes recorded on a computer into qtirreco?	23:21
alterego	sandstorm: I thought I was always promoting NSU :) As flashing is what I always do.	23:21
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alterego	I suppose another reason not to do OTA, if it does not work, then you're left walking around with a brick until you can get home to a computer and flash it ;)	23:22
rdorsch	Can anybody tell if PR1.2 is already released for Germany?	23:22
visz	pfft	23:22
visz	ota works just nice	23:23
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sandstorm	alterego: I see, thanks for the brainstorming :)	23:23
visz	i bet my money on n900 doing the flashing over windows or linux desktop computer anytime	23:23
GAN900	The Droid slide action is so awful.	23:23
sandstorm	and sharing valuable thoughts of yours	23:23
bfree	I hadn't realised PR1.2 was out so I guess that's the obvious excuse for a reboot to lose my uptime ;-)	23:23
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alterego	visz: yeah, I'm not saying it doesn't. I know they go through a lot of effort making sure it'll work well for users. But with the amount of "dodgy" N900's out there with custom kernels, over-clocked CPU's and seriously screwed installations, it's not guaranteed to work.	23:23
sandstorm	but one thing to clarify, we dont blame OTA or say OTA is bad :)	23:24
alterego	Flashing is easy, painless and is extremely reliable.	23:24
MaikB	[N900][Skype][Video] ah, according to this http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53579&page=6 it doesn't work because I dare to use linux as my desktop OS	23:24
MaikB	pitty me :'(	23:24
alterego	exactly.	23:24
pupnik	apt-get upgrade is bad	23:24
toresbe	http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/apps/all/autotalent	23:24
alterego	Heh	23:24
toresbe	oops, sorry	23:24
sandstorm	just brainstorming about the probable consequences and etc	23:24
visz	well my vista with nokia pc suite doesn't seem to recognize my phone with some of the apps	23:25
visz	nokia maps uploader for example	23:25
pupnik	device still running after a g u alterego - at least wifi, web, irssi	23:25
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MohammadAG	andre___, ping?	23:26
alterego	I'm just giving my opinion, I'm not saying one method is technically any better than another, I'm just expressing my personal bias toward flashing over doing OTA.	23:26
andre___	MohammadAG, pong	23:26
alterego	That and PR1.2 was available before I got the OTA notification :D	23:26
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MohammadAG	andre___, just wondering if you could create a sub category for Desktop widgets -> Email Widget	23:27
GAN900	I've only been able to do OTA for PR1.1.1	23:27
MohammadAG	aka Component	23:27
pupnik	i think it is funny what happens	23:27
MohammadAG	Bug 10294 to be more exact	23:27
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10294 Email widget on desktop does not display mails from Nokia Messaging accounts	23:27
sandstorm	alterego: for which, I appreciate it and I am glad about	23:27
alterego	GAN900: anything unusual about your N900?	23:27
alterego	sandstorm: no problem :)	23:28
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alterego	GAN900: except it being yours that is :P	23:28
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andre___	MohammadAG, uhm I should, yeah	23:29
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andre___	MohammadAG, done. thanks for noticing.	23:31
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MohammadAG	andre___, thanks for making it :)	23:32
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MohammadAG	andre___, heh, changing a small detail emailed everyone	23:32
andre___	hmm? which detail?	23:33
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GAN900	alterego, September proto.	23:34
GAN900	alterego, and early firmware access. :P	23:34
chupy35	hi, i was upgrading my n900, but when it was upgrading, but my battery goes empty and now my n900 dont turn on, only reboots and a red led turns on what can i do?	23:35
alterego	GAN900: hahah, oh, well, they did say that it wouldn't work for the early 1.2 leaks	23:35
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alterego	chupy35: charge it	23:35
chupy35	alterego its already charged	23:35
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chupy35	but it fails the upgrading and i fuck it up and can boot now, i upgrade with apt dist upgrade	23:36
MohammadAG	andre___, the component one in the bug, changed it from contacts to email widget	23:36
GAN900	alterego, well, it was an official early	23:36
GAN900	alterego, and the same as the released.	23:36
MohammadAG	andre___, you should've received an email anyways :)	23:37
andre___	ah that one. yeppah	23:37
GAN900	alterego, so I didn't NEED to OTA. Since I already had it.	23:37
rdorsch	I am wondering why I do not see PR1.2 in the program manager (it claims 0 updates are available)	23:37
rdorsch	when I do and apt-get upgrade, I get	23:38
rdorsch	1055 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 24 not upgraded.	23:38
rdorsch	Need to get 106MB of archives.	23:38
rdorsch	After this operation, 8606kB disk space will be freed.	23:38
rdorsch	E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/.	23:38
chupy35	how can i repair my n900?	23:38
rdorsch	Is that expected or do I miss something?	23:38
MohammadAG	rdorsch, you probably broke the mp-fremantle-<productcode>-pr package	23:39
rdorsch	chupy35: there are a number of service manuals available.	23:39
GAN900	Too bad the business end axed the beta program	23:39
lcuk	chupy35, :	23:39
lcuk	~flashing	23:39
infobot	flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	23:39
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rdorsch	/home/user # apt-cache search mp-fremantle	23:40
rdorsch	mp-fremantle-generic-pr -	23:40
rdorsch	/home/user #	23:40
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chadi	were you guys able to improve the framerate for contacts scrolling?	23:41
rdorsch	MohammadAG: is mp-fremantle-<productcode>-pr available for download from an apt-source or was that preinstalled?	23:41
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chupy35	thanls lcuk	23:41
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chadi	the transitions improvement is great so far :)	23:41
Mbere	could someone help me	23:41
Mbere	i'm new to this	23:41
MohammadAG	rdorsch, preinstalled, just reinstall it	23:41
rdorsch	I see only mp-fremantle-generic-pr	23:41
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MohammadAG	umm, <productcode> is what you need to replace...	23:41
MohammadAG	generic for global 002 for US etc...	23:41
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Mbere	how to i install applications that i downloaded to my p.c.	23:42
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Mbere	?	23:43
lcuk	Mbere, you downloaded them to your pc? why?	23:43
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Mbere	coz	23:43
MohammadAG	...	23:43
Mbere	i have free internet when i'm using my p.c.	23:43
sandstorm	can I somehow see the ingredients of the backup file/files created by backup manager? I am just wondering what type of data it stores as backups .	23:43
MohammadAG	sandstorm, normal zip files	23:44
Mbere	its costly when i use the application manager	23:44
lcuk	Mbere, ? wifi	23:44
Dima202	Hmm, I wonder why they removed search from app manager	23:44
rdorsch	E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/.	23:44
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lcuk	Dima202, because if you go into the categories, click all and start typing it magically searches!	23:44
rdorsch	do they want me to free 122 MB in the root filesystem for OTA PR1.2?	23:44
lcuk	same for any other category	23:44
sandstorm	MohammadAG: does it compress all the applications I installed including all their conf and executable files ?	23:44
Dima202	oh cool didn't know that thanks	23:45
lcuk	sandstorm, application config only	23:45
MohammadAG	sandstorm, it backs up application lists	23:45
lcuk	and repository list+app list	23:45
lcuk	when you restore you can then restore apps ontop	23:45
Mbere	i don't have wifi at this point	23:45
Mbere	is there no other way?	23:45
* lcuk drinks faster		23:45
sandstorm	so list for apps and their conf files are stored as backups anything else? (just trying to understand the dynamics)	23:45
lcuk	Mbere, not easily as a regular user with gui	23:45
lcuk	if you ssh as root you can use your linux skills and dpkg :)	23:46
Mbere	i could install .deb files	23:46
Mbere	but	23:46
Mbere	.install files?	23:46
Mbere	how do i install those	23:46
lcuk	those just tell you which repository and package to grab	23:46
dotblank	Mbere, usually those are python arn't that or is that setup	23:46
lcuk	and are specifically for HAM	23:46
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dotblank	nah nvm its setup.py that does that	23:47
sandstorm	so anyhow can I see which conf files it stores in the backup files, maybe I could want to ignore some of them to make them refreshed with the default ones?	23:47
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dotblank	sandstorm, you could flash EVERYthing	23:47
Mbere	i can install debian files using the x terminal yes	23:47
dotblank	or rm ~/.	23:47
sandstorm	dotblank: I know but I am trying to understand the basics you know	23:47
Mbere	but how do i install those with the .install extnsion?	23:48
sandstorm	the tweaks etc.	23:48
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Dassu	:grrr flashing my n900	23:48
Dassu	hopefully will not result in failure or lost data	23:49
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kthomas	^good luck	23:49
Dassu	I know I will lose some of the data but what if like images or such. Shouldn't happen cause those are in MyDocs	23:49
Mbere	so no one knows?	23:49
Dassu	CMT flased successfully	23:50
Dassu	booting now	23:50
* kthomas is too stubborn to flash		23:50
dotblank	Mbere, what other files are in the program	23:50
Dassu	grrr	23:50
Dassu	:D lol, it was quick	23:50
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Dassu	:( I was so scared because 500euros is so much for me	23:50
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alterego	Dassu: scared of what?	23:50
Mbere	dotblank , could you be specific perhaps?	23:50
Dassu	alterego: like bricking it	23:51
dotblank	Mbere, is the only file you have is a .install?	23:51
Dassu	"oops power cut"	23:51
pupnik	try flashing with a damaged usb header for excitement	23:51
alterego	Dassu: hundreds of Nokias are flashed every day, maybe even thouasands, no one really has any problems. The chances of you drastically breaking it are so very slim :P	23:52
alterego	Heh	23:52
dotblank	Ive flashed mine plenty	23:52
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Mbere	dotblank like for example eyes-widget.install thats wat i have	23:52
dotblank	hmm can you cat the file?	23:53
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Mbere	cat?	23:53
dotblank	its a command	23:53
Mbere	sorry i'm such a n00b	23:53
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dotblank	reads the contents of a file	23:53
Mbere	well	23:54
Mbere	after copying it to my phone	23:54
Mbere	i can see it	23:54
Mbere	but i don't know how to install it	23:54
dotblank	whats in it	23:54
dotblank	the file	23:54
dotblank	binary data or a description of where to download it	23:55
MohammadAG	cat - concatenate files and print on the standard output	23:55
Dassu	Yep	23:55
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Mbere	just the icon	23:56
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Mbere	k lemme put the question this way	23:56
Dassu	woot, All my shortcuts were restored.	23:56
Mbere	is the another way to install apps withut using the application mamanger?	23:57
Dassu	yes, apt-get	23:57
Dassu	or dpkg	23:57
MohammadAG	or manual unpacking :)	23:58
MohammadAG	I'm off	23:58
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Mbere	k thanks	23:58
Mbere	will try that	23:59

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