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| adeus | yes | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| tuliobaars | fuser what? | 00:00 |
| tuliobaars | fuser -k ? | 00:00 |
| adeus | that dev | 00:00 |
| tuliobaars | doesn't worked | 00:00 |
| adeus | how about lsof|grep mmc2 | 00:01 |
| tuliobaars | pls, say it again, i'm a noob in xterm! | 00:01 |
| tuliobaars | i'm su | 00:01 |
| tuliobaars | so: | 00:01 |
| tuliobaars | ? | 00:01 |
| adeus | lsof|grep mmc2 | 00:02 |
| luke-jr | Dantonic: -norepeat | 00:02 |
| tuliobaars | cannot umount: device or resource busy! Again! | 00:03 |
| adeus | what? | 00:04 |
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| tuliobaars | again the same problem | 00:04 |
| adeus | well that command fixes nothing | 00:05 |
| tuliobaars | sorry:? | 00:05 |
| adeus | shows what app is using files on the card | 00:06 |
| adeus | if any | 00:06 |
| adeus | might need the dev name instead of mmc2 | 00:06 |
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| bobbyd | hi | 00:07 |
| Dantonic | tteesstt | 00:07 |
| Dantonic | tried -norepeat... still does it | 00:07 |
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| tuliobaars | is it tome? | 00:08 |
| Dantonic | luke-jr, I just entered -norepeat in the line when I started the server | 00:08 |
| bobbyd | very recently I've been seeing very high CPU usage in modest on my n900 that is causing the phone to lock up. It's also been getting into a state where it won't turn the screen on | 00:08 |
| tuliobaars | MohammadAG! do you remenber me? | 00:08 |
| bobbyd | has anyone seen anything like this, or have any advice? I've been googling, but haven't found anything useful | 00:08 |
| tuliobaars | cannot umount again! | 00:09 |
| MohammadAG | my memory is a but rusty at times | 00:09 |
| MohammadAG | 14 yo? | 00:09 |
| tuliobaars | yep! | 00:10 |
| tuliobaars | i cannot umount my sd yet! do u belive it? | 00:11 |
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| MohammadAG | i'll try not to | 00:11 |
| MohammadAG | umount -l /dev/mmcblk0p1 | 00:11 |
| MohammadAG | if i got that node right | 00:11 |
| tybollt_ | MohammadAG: is your but rusty? | 00:12 |
| tybollt_ | ;) | 00:12 |
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| tuliobaars | oh man, yoo made my day, dude!!! | 00:12 |
| tuliobaars | thanks, mohammad! | 00:12 |
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| MohammadAG | np (*wonders what the force damaged*) | 00:13 |
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| MohammadAG | tybollt_, my what, lol | 00:13 |
| tybollt_ | your buttocks | 00:13 |
| BCMM | bobbyd: is it completely locked up? can you open a terminal? | 00:13 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 00:13 |
| MohammadAG | no, it's new and closed source :P | 00:13 |
| tuliobaars | do you want to write this to disk? [ynq] | 00:14 |
| tuliobaars | I try "y" ??? what's ynq ??? | 00:15 |
| bobbyd | BCMM: I can open a terminal, when i run top I see modest at the top of the list. If I kill it, it's fine again. I tried to run modest from the command line to see if there was any debug output, but there doesn't seem to be | 00:16 |
| BCMM | bobbyd: i don't know exactly what modest does | 00:17 |
| BCMM | but that is useful information | 00:17 |
| BCMM | is there anything that seems to trigger the problem? | 00:17 |
| bobbyd | modest is the email clinet | 00:17 |
| bobbyd | client | 00:17 |
| BCMM | ah yeah, i remember | 00:17 |
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| MohammadAG | the proximity sensor is always on right? | 00:19 |
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| tripzero | on the n900, sure | 00:22 |
| tripzero | unless you are holding the phone upside down | 00:22 |
| tripzero | or in portrait mode | 00:23 |
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| MohammadAG | why isn't hermes working... | 00:26 |
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| MohammadAG | stops @ contact 45 | 00:26 |
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| tripzero | says we'll get Greg Monroe | 00:31 |
| tripzero | 2.2% chance | 00:31 |
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| tuliobaars | alguem fala portugues? | 00:36 |
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| crashanddie | tuliobaars: only english in here | 00:46 |
| tuliobaars | ok, sorry | 00:46 |
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| tuliobaars | how can i delete a file on xterm? | 00:48 |
| * Arkenoi returned from shooting range, great, it is the first time i had *enough* shells | 00:48 | |
| tuliobaars | and see the free left space in it? | 00:48 |
| johnsq | depends how good the command line support is. df -h for free space | 00:51 |
| johnsq | rm my_file | 00:51 |
| tuliobaars | thanks | 00:53 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:56 |
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| ManoftheSea | Arkenoi: you were shooting shotgun? | 00:59 |
| Arkenoi | AK-74 | 01:00 |
| ManoftheSea | then you weren't shooting shells | 01:00 |
| Arkenoi | technically they are called that too? english is not my native language, but my impression was that. | 01:01 |
| ManoftheSea | like calling a magazine a "clip" is also recognized, but wrong. | 01:02 |
| Arkenoi | or it is misnaming widespreed enough | 01:02 |
| GAN900 | Arkenoi, shells are only for shotguns | 01:02 |
| GAN900 | Well, in the unexpended sense. | 01:02 |
| ManoftheSea | I didn't know english wasn't your primary. I'll put the grammar nazi back in the box. | 01:03 |
| BCMM | perhaps he was clay pidgeon shooting | 01:03 |
| BCMM | but with clams | 01:03 |
| Arkenoi | Ok, thanks for clarification anyways | 01:03 |
| Arkenoi | but shooting was fun | 01:04 |
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| ManoftheSea | cool. | 01:04 |
| ManoftheSea | Does yours do auto? | 01:05 |
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| ManoftheSea | three round burst or full-auto? | 01:05 |
| MohammadAG | Full auto ftw | 01:05 |
| Arkenoi | full auto | 01:05 |
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| ManoftheSea | awesome. Then I can see how you'd run out. | 01:06 |
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| mikki-kun | is anybody using gftp here? | 01:09 |
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| mikki-kun | the scrooling is horrible on that one >.< | 01:11 |
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| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, actually it's broken | 01:14 |
| MohammadAG | it doesn't scroll up | 01:14 |
| mikki-kun | ohhh, neither does it scrool down | 01:14 |
| mikki-kun | so i can kick gftp from my sys? | 01:14 |
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| MohammadAG | apt-get autoremove gftp-common | 01:15 |
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| mikki-kun | does that solve my problem with the scrooling or does it completely kill gftp? :D | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | it removes it :P | 01:16 |
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| MohammadAG | I so want to port nautilus | 01:16 |
| MohammadAG | gonna start on it tom | 01:16 |
| MohammadAG | or tonight | 01:16 |
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| javispedro | hah, drnoksnes builds on google's native client =) | 01:17 |
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| mikki-kun | nautilus? hm, what about gftp? =p | 01:21 |
| MohammadAG | Screw it? | 01:22 |
| MohammadAG | nautilus has better support imo | 01:22 |
| MohammadAG | SSH, SFTP, FTP etc... | 01:22 |
| MohammadAG | and it's a file browser | 01:22 |
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| mikki-kun | hm... if it has better support then i have nothing against it ;) | 01:23 |
| MohammadAG | make it start as root by default, and you just killed a couple N900s | 01:23 |
| mikki-kun | hu? | 01:23 |
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| frals | Package has been promoted. \o/ | 01:23 |
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| * MohammadAG reports a bug in the package and demotes frals' app | 01:24 | |
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| mikki-kun | i think i'll remake my n900 again... | 01:25 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Go for it! | 01:27 |
| SpeedEvil | (the nautilus - not the frals-bashing. | 01:27 |
| frals | :D | 01:27 |
| MohammadAG | :( | 01:27 |
| MohammadAG | I want to do both | 01:27 |
| javispedro | NAUTILUS??? | 01:28 |
| MohammadAG | frals, it's only another 10 days, no hard feelings eh? | 01:28 |
| javispedro | it's deadly slow on a 333Mhz | 01:28 |
| SpeedEvil | But we have 600MHz! | 01:29 |
| MohammadAG | overclock it to 800 | 01:30 |
| * MohammadAG hides | 01:30 | |
| javispedro | on a X86 333Mhz | 01:30 |
| javispedro | refreshing a view takes 2-3 seconds | 01:30 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders. | 01:30 | |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, well you said man-db wouldn't work :P | 01:31 |
| SpeedEvil | There are lots of functional file managers out there. | 01:31 |
| SpeedEvil | They aren't generally pretty though. | 01:31 |
| javispedro | like Thunar | 01:31 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: and didn't you had to move mandir? | 01:31 |
| MohammadAG | Konqueror :P | 01:31 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, I did, but you killed off the whole idea :) | 01:31 |
| javispedro | because now it's useless | 01:32 |
| javispedro | as either you repack every other package's man page | 01:32 |
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| MohammadAG | or I provide a huge man pages package | 01:32 |
| javispedro | I was actually expecting you to kill docpurge =) | 01:32 |
| MohammadAG | which I did :) | 01:32 |
| javispedro | man-db is not huge | 01:32 |
| MohammadAG | the pages are 14MBs | 01:33 |
| javispedro | docpurge is just a dpkg trigger, should be easy enough to kill | 01:33 |
| MohammadAG | Basic ones | 01:33 |
| MohammadAG | but / will still be a pita | 01:33 |
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| javispedro | unless you plan to fill it with < 10 KiB manpages, auto optifier will do its job | 01:33 |
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| MohammadAG | # Real hackers don't read docs. | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | that's kind of stupid | 01:35 |
| b-man17 | lol | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | I can edit the /usr/sbin/docpurge script | 01:35 |
| b-man17 | correction: # Real BAD hackers don't read docs. | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | and just disable purging | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | # Copyright (C) 2006 Nokia Corporation. | 01:36 |
| * javispedro throws some code over the wall | 01:36 | |
| MohammadAG | says a lot ^ | 01:36 |
| b-man17 | xD | 01:36 |
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| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, Nautilus supports browsing local filesystems as well as filesystems available through the GVFS system, including FTP sites, Windows SMB shares, OBEX protocol often implemented on cellphones, Files transferred over shell protocol, HTTP and WebDAV servers and SFTP servers. | 01:39 |
| javispedro | hum. | 01:40 |
| javispedro | this reminds that previous hildon-fm had core for gnome vfs mount points | 01:40 |
| javispedro | *code. | 01:40 |
| javispedro | you could browse samba shares with it | 01:41 |
| javispedro | (and obexftp) | 01:41 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: what about SSH? | 01:42 |
| javispedro | you mean SFTP | 01:42 |
| mikki-kun | uhm... i have no FTP-server running, but i was able to connect via SSH2 from gftp and browse my filedirectory that way... at least as far as i could see the goddamn list | 01:43 |
| javispedro | you're thinking FTP or FTPS | 01:44 |
| javispedro | SFTP is an entirely different protocol | 01:44 |
| javispedro | (which uses ssh as transport9 | 01:44 |
| javispedro | ) | 01:44 |
| mikki-kun | ahhh, ok... thanks | 01:44 |
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| javispedro | mikki-kun: so in a sense, you do have a "sftp" server running, check for sftp-server binary (will not be running right now as sshd spawns it as needed) | 01:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | I think it's rolled into sshd IIRC | 01:45 |
| javispedro | might be in dropbear | 01:45 |
| javispedro | but not for opensshd | 01:45 |
| javispedro | (at least not for the last version I built for my N900 :P) | 01:45 |
| MohammadAG | sftp works on the N900 | 01:46 |
| MohammadAG | from another pc that is | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | So it is | 01:46 |
| mikki-kun | well, learnd something new... again ^^ | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | (sftp binary) | 01:46 |
| javispedro | ah, sorry, though you were referring to the INSIDE the sshd binary | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I was | 01:46 |
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| javispedro | then not, it's not inside sshd binary, but a separate sftp-server binary | 01:47 |
| javispedro | should be in $libexec | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | I seem to have no sftp-server - there is a sftp | 01:48 |
| javispedro | no, that's the client | 01:48 |
| * javispedro grabs n900 | 01:48 | |
| SpeedEvil | Is sftp and scp different? | 01:48 |
| javispedro | /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server | 01:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ah - indeed | 01:49 |
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| pexi | why can't I listen tcp or udp sockets with PyQt4 QtNetwork bindings? I can connect to another device using tcp or broadcast udp. doesn't really show any error though | 01:55 |
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| pexi | I'm running python as a root | 01:55 |
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| pexi | and ofc I can connect to n900 through ssh | 01:56 |
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| pexi | my laptop captures udp broadcast but n900 doesn't (same code/interface/network) | 01:58 |
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| ZogG | pexi loser =P | 02:02 |
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| pexi | thanks for the tip! :) | 02:04 |
| pexi | but it really doesn't help :) | 02:05 |
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| PhonicUK | hey all, whats new? | 02:18 |
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| PhonicUK | is it me or is the kernel package being updated almost every other day? | 02:20 |
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| ohwhyme | it is being updated almost every day | 02:21 |
| PhonicUK | why so often? | 02:23 |
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| MohammadAG | ask t-tan | 02:24 |
| MohammadAG | when he comes online | 02:25 |
| MohammadAG | battery low grrr | 02:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sftp://user@192.168.1.31/home/user is even a bookmark in my Konqueror | 02:25 |
| MohammadAG | same on nautilus | 02:26 |
| MohammadAG | but it's a bookmark to / | 02:26 |
| PhonicUK | your internal IP is the same as mine DocScrutinizer xD | 02:26 |
| PhonicUK | for my N900 | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | P660? | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka Atcor 200 | 02:27 |
| PhonicUK | ? | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | Zyxel P660 modem-router | 02:27 |
| PhonicUK | BT home hub v2 | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sold by the million by Arcor as Wlan-Modem200 | 02:28 |
| PhonicUK | just coincidence that our n900s are both 1.31 | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | just coincides our DHCP on router is similarly configured | 02:29 |
| PhonicUK | yup | 02:29 |
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| PhonicUK | i usually reference mine by hostname though | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | Not yet bothered to care | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | should... eventually | 02:30 |
| PhonicUK | why sftp instead of scp? | 02:30 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: whoah, big thx with the browser-thing ö.ö didn't know it could be that "cool" :D | 02:30 |
| mikki-kun | sftp gives way more than scp | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | my browser doesn't know how to display directory content via SCP | 02:31 |
| mikki-kun | scp can just copy files | 02:31 |
| mikki-kun | sftp offers more features as also "browsing" the tree and also deleting files on the server you sftp to and the likes | 02:31 |
| PhonicUK | winscp lets me do that | 02:32 |
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| PhonicUK | spose it uses plain ssh for most of it though | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | incredible | 02:32 |
| mikki-kun | winscp is also as it says a "free sftp and ftp client for windows" | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 02:33 |
| mikki-kun | at least that is what winscp.net says about itself (first hit via google for winscp) | 02:33 |
| PhonicUK | i like winscp a lot | 02:33 |
| tripzero | winscp is okay | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | the first 3 letters cause nausea here | 02:34 |
| PhonicUK | its how i usually get files to/from my device | 02:34 |
| tripzero | unixscp is better | 02:34 |
| mikki-kun | LOL :D | 02:34 |
| PhonicUK | and puTTy to ssh into it | 02:34 |
| * DocScrutinizer suggests to rename to losescp | 02:35 | |
| tripzero | loserscp | 02:35 |
| tripzero | sshfs ftw | 02:35 |
| PhonicUK | i like to game so windows it is xD | 02:36 |
| PhonicUK | linux for everything else | 02:36 |
| tripzero | i like to game so ps3 it is. linux for everything else ;) | 02:36 |
| mikki-kun | tripzero: sshfs is only something clientside, right? so my n900 doesn't need any software for sshfs | 02:36 |
| mikki-kun | when i want to "mount" some of the n900's dirs to my netbook | 02:37 |
| tripzero | mikki-kun, if you are running sshfs to mount your n900, all your n900 needs is ssh | 02:37 |
| PhonicUK | i have a ps3 too, but i prefer gaming on my rig | 02:37 |
| mikki-kun | ssh is a must-have on my n900 | 02:37 |
| PhonicUK | nvidia 3d vision == awesome | 02:37 |
| mikki-kun | goddamit, that device changed the way i think about networking and how cool SSH can be | 02:37 |
| mikki-kun | without the n900 i wouldn't know what SSH even does Ö.ö | 02:38 |
| tripzero | :) | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | PhonicUK, psn id? :) | 02:38 |
| PhonicUK | n900 is the god of smartphones | 02:38 |
| PhonicUK | mohammed, guess :p | 02:38 |
| mikki-kun | PhonicUK: i'd say MIDs with phone-function | 02:38 |
| PhonicUK | i concur | 02:38 |
| mikki-kun | :D | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | PhonicUK, hmm, chris? :P | 02:39 |
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| PhonicUK | its the same as my nick | 02:39 |
| MohammadAG | (no idea why i chose that :P) | 02:39 |
| MohammadAG | I know xD | 02:39 |
| PhonicUK | same for Steam | 02:39 |
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| MohammadAG | PhonicUK, I just came up with the chris part, no idea why :P | 02:42 |
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| PhonicUK | lol my name is Mike :) | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | real name is john here | 02:43 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 02:43 |
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| MohammadAG | jk, Night all | 02:44 |
| MohammadAG | nautlius is a pain to port | 02:44 |
| MohammadAG | will try again tom. | 02:44 |
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| Jzarecta | hi anyone know how to make sure that my album covers show on the N900 player? | 02:46 |
| Jzarecta | I havent been able to find out how come some albums show them and some don't | 02:46 |
| Jzarecta | is it pathed on the m3u, svf or nfo? | 02:46 |
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| * mikki-kun goes now as well... good night | 02:52 | |
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| javispedro | Jzarecta: not on m3u, svf, or nfo | 02:54 |
| Jzarecta | javispedro: where is it then, how can I fix this | 02:54 |
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| javispedro | albumart can be inside id3tag, cover.jpg or folder.jpg | 02:54 |
| Jzarecta | javispedro: so if I just rename any jpg file to cover it will automatically work? | 02:55 |
| javispedro | you might need to run tracker-processes -r | 02:55 |
| javispedro | there's a few threads on talk.maemo.org about this | 02:56 |
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| Jzarecta | javispedro: I did that and shows now "no songs" | 02:57 |
| javispedro | you should have read more before doing it | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: highest time for my 101-post to hostmode thread | 02:58 |
| javispedro | at least the part on restarting media player and letting it run for a while.. | 02:58 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: which I'm not sure about | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | why? :-) | 02:58 |
| javispedro | of course getting basic host mode would be desirable | 02:58 |
| javispedro | but the N8x0 driver (and all the working host/peripheral switchable drivers I know) as is is uses that entire piece of otg state machine | 02:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tricking OTG into a semi-working hostmode, by cable jockeying and kernel patches for sure isn't leading anywhere | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | yesyes | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure we need otg_host() | 03:00 |
| odin_ | has anyone been able to get higher read performance from OneNAND than from EMMC, supposedly OneNAND can do over 108Mb/sec (according to mobipre.com blog entry, citing Samsung OneNAND specs) | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | but we don't want to trick the statemachine | 03:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's insane | 03:00 |
| javispedro | not using stupid tricks | 03:00 |
| javispedro | but we DO want to trick it | 03:00 |
| javispedro | -- the official way :) | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, we want 'echo host >mode" to work | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's not 'tricking' | 03:01 |
| javispedro | well :) | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course the switch-to-plain-vanilla-hostmode method uses functions from OTG, as you don't need two separate functions to configure pulldowns onPHY | 03:02 |
| odin_ | also is "maemo-version=5.0update5+0m5" the PR1.2 SDK preview ? maybe you can "dpkg -l | grep maemo" if you have PR1.2 SDK installed from sbox | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | and of course the whole host protocol is similar in plain vanilla and in OTG | 03:03 |
| javispedro | yes, I think I misunderstood your intentions :) | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | but to care about musb->xceiv->state = OTG_STATE_A_WAIT_VRISE; is nuts, as that's clearly OTG only statemachine crap we shouldn't bother about at all | 03:04 |
| javispedro | and also a state machine that _works. | 03:04 |
| javispedro | as proved by n8x0 | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 03:04 |
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| javispedro | ah, someone on tmo is already rebuffing the evidence | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, what? please rephrase | 03:06 |
| javispedro | (switching topics) that some poster on tmo is conveniently ignoring the evidence he doesn't like to formulate his theories | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | ohh, sorry | 03:07 |
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| crashanddie | javispedro: link? | 03:24 |
| ZogG | maemo.org > Talk > Software > Design > REQUEST: Maroon 5 wallpapers | 03:24 |
| ZogG | are people really that stupid? | 03:24 |
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| javispedro | crashanddie: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=664975#post664975 | 03:26 |
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| crashanddie | plonker | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: hope the edit is clear enough now (hostmode) | 03:37 |
| crashanddie | bbl | 03:37 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: thanks! | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | ZogG: Few bands are suitable. | 03:38 |
| odin_ | btfs for root! | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | ZogG: I suggest Polyphonic Spree wallpapers. | 03:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: thank you for pointing me at it | 03:38 |
| javispedro | odin_: hey, meego uses btrfs doesn'it ? our local slashdot clone fell for that ;P | 03:39 |
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| odin_ | Im still not able to get this supa-dupa read performance from OneNAND, does anyone have a test sequence I can perform to observe this so called faster performance | 03:39 |
| ZogG | SpeedEvil it's not me who was asking lol. | 03:39 |
| SpeedEvil | ZogG: yes, I gathered. | 03:40 |
| SpeedEvil | ZogG: I was contemplating bands with lineups that wide. | 03:40 |
| odin_ | Im not sure what meego uses, but I can see the concept of copy-on-write being useful to move rootfs to eMMC but have the OneNAND as a kind of swap-cache / cache and rootfs journal | 03:40 |
| ZogG | i would recomend him some Emo music i think | 03:40 |
| odin_ | I am using tests like "dd if=/dev/mtd5 of=/dev/null" and getting 11.3 MB/s from OneNAND, I get mtd5 from "cat /proc/mtd" | 03:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | odin_: I got 30 meg total ish from onenand and mmc together | 03:43 |
| odin_ | I can understand the OneNAND properties of higher write/erase cycles, but right now I am getting comparable performance with both read and write between OneNAND and eMMC | 03:43 |
| SpeedEvil | I got about 13M/s from both | 03:43 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: It may be small block write performance. | 03:43 |
| odin_ | yes sure I can agree multi-pathing (accessing both at same time) can achieve 30MB/sec | 03:43 |
| odin_ | ah ok, let me try bigger block sizes | 03:43 |
| SpeedEvil | no - write | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | try random writing 2k blocks say | 03:44 |
| javispedro | I wouldn't ignore the filesystem layet | 03:44 |
| javispedro | *layer | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | yes - filesystem layer will screw you up in this case | 03:44 |
| odin_ | why wouldn't you? I want the fastest possible performance I can get out of it, to observe the properties of each | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | no, you don't. | 03:45 |
| javispedro | specially for writing | 03:45 |
| SpeedEvil | You want to work out the fundamental limits on the read/write speed. | 03:45 |
| odin_ | I just want to prove the documentation, and do some tests that show up the different performance characterstics | 03:45 |
| SpeedEvil | this is really hard with the fs in the way on ubifs | 03:45 |
| odin_ | yes for all cases, so happy to setup 100 tests of there are 100 cases | 03:45 |
| SpeedEvil | and the controller in the way on emmc | 03:45 |
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| odin_ | how can I access the eMMC without controller ? | 03:46 |
| odin_ | I'm not after some "lab theoretical" I am after some software/hardware implementation theoretical (i.e. the N900 with best drivers) | 03:46 |
| AEnima1577g | thopiekar, I was able to get that stream to work on my slackware desktop using an mplayer plugin to firefox | 03:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | This is really easy for the bare onenand. You can easily instrument the kernel, and observe the erase times. | 03:47 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: you fundamentally can't. | 03:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | odin_: You have to work out test cases that extract the measurements despite it. | 03:47 |
| odin_ | maybe I should reboot it, its uptime is 31days | 03:47 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: Try for giggles small random block write on the emmc. It's not pretty | 03:48 |
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| odin_ | yes Im sure on that, which is why rootfs can be on eMMC but the OneNAND hold its journal file, the writes from the journal to eMMC can be done in background, also optimized so the OneNAND takes the re-write hit on a single sector across the journal but only one write occurs by the time the journal is commited | 03:50 |
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| odin_ | there is no reason the rootfs (on eMMC) needs to have its journal replayed as often as a desktop machine, unless there is memory pressure, so an N900 sitting idle for a day might only commit journal a few times a day | 03:51 |
| Termana | good morning | 03:51 |
| javispedro | hey, not for the average user though =) | 03:52 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: My n900 will occasionally shut off when dropped | 03:52 |
| odin_ | ok I am getting 18Mb/sec reliable with bs=2k just over 19Mb/sec (seq-read) with bigger | 03:53 |
| odin_ | yes that is find since the joornal is committed to immediately | 03:53 |
| SpeedEvil | s/dropped/slightly banged as it might in a pocket/ | 03:53 |
| infobot | SpeedEvil meant: odin_: My n900 will occasionally shut off when slightly banged as it might in a pocket | 03:53 |
| odin_ | your data is safe on OneNAND when it reboots the mounting will replay it to eMMC | 03:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | ah - misread. | 03:53 |
| SpeedEvil | You really need to do linear swap for the full benefit. | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Which I don't think anyones written yet. | 03:54 |
| odin_ | I also see OneNAND being able to read-cache data from rootfs and can act as 1st level swap space | 03:54 |
| odin_ | what do you mean by linear swap? | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Why read cache? | 03:54 |
| odin_ | well that is the claim, bootup speeds and such, the reason rootfs is on OneNAND is performance (which includes read speed) | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Kernel decides it wants to swap out a block. Linear swap means it always goes in the next contiguous block. | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | basically. | 03:55 |
| odin_ | so glibc and X11 server and stuff can also read-cache the rotofs | 03:55 |
| odin_ | s/rotofs/rootfs/ pages, but it will be like zero maintenance, i.e. when you modify the data it will resync itself | 03:55 |
| javispedro | ah, again the onenand discussion.... | 03:55 |
| javispedro | btw, pr1.2 moves half of the applications to the emmc | 03:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | The left or the right? | 03:56 |
| odin_ | well thats good but I want the 2Gb root please | 03:56 |
| javispedro | so in a sense it's already using the onenand for system libs only. | 03:56 |
| * SpeedEvil goes to sleep. | 03:57 | |
| SpeedEvil | Night all. | 03:57 |
| odin_ | well Im thinking more along the lines of some kind of kernel OneNAND storage manage, which still uses UBIFS for partition management but might disable compression and such | 03:57 |
| odin_ | gnite | 03:57 |
| odin_ | so all the page write counters are compatible 100%, its just put to a different kind of use | 03:57 |
| odin_ | then you tweak in kernel the bias between usage, rootfs journal, swap space, rootfs cache to remaining area, you then have a tool to preload specific blocks from rootfs (for such things as "rootfs cache") | 03:59 |
| odin_ | boot the kernel up in some audit mode and audit which pages in which libs really do get faulted a lot to tune | 04:00 |
| odin_ | yes it does seem to top out at just over 19Mb/s the OneNAND at 4Kb block sizes | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - mergemem. | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Or maybe even ksm | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/ulrich/mergemem/ | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - kill the fuckers at the patent office with a blunt spoon. | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | (WRT vmware getting a patent on that code - which was out the best part of a decade before) | 04:03 |
| * SpeedEvil really goes to sleep now. | 04:03 | |
| odin_ | thanks for the link, looking... anything but a bloody 200Mb rootfs! no way I'm going to optify user-space when thats really the wrong way to deal with it | 04:03 |
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| pigeon | is it true that on the n900 openvpn only works over wlan, but not 3g? | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | you cannot usually make inbound connections to a phone. | 04:26 |
| odin_ | I can't see way that is, isn't OpenVPN based on regular UDP/TCP for encaps ? | 04:27 |
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| odin_ | s/way/why/ but I presume the phone wants to be the road-warrior end, connecting to a static IP hub | 04:27 |
| pigeon | hmm | 04:28 |
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| kdubois | what is the name of the hildon widget that causes a panel to slide up from the bottom? (like in the settings) | 04:30 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: what?? | 04:30 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: they ripoff that much and then they filter it? | 04:30 |
| odin_ | if they could have "their way" you would have "their internet" in "their walled garden" ha ha | 04:31 |
| * odin_ bludgeons network operators (with a blunt spoon) | 04:31 | |
| odin_ | oh my E72 can't be updated because is subsidised, as well, last time I make that mistake now | 04:32 |
| luke-jr | odin_: that's what it is | 04:33 |
| crashanddie | odin_: erhm, because most phones are nat'd to hell? | 04:34 |
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| odin_ | I don't think mine if with UK Vodafone, but then maybe I should whip up a STUN client application (to test what I really do get) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Traversal_Utilities_for_NAT | 04:36 |
| Robot101 | you can make openvpn go over tcp | 04:37 |
| odin_ | you might be correct on connections coming back, but I think all outgoing connections UDP/TCP are at least stateful inspection | 04:37 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: really?? | 04:37 |
| crashanddie | odin_: really depends how the operator implements it | 04:37 |
| luke-jr | gosh, I'm glad 4G requires IPv6 | 04:37 |
| odin_ | crashanddie, yes hence why whipping up a STUN test client tool might actually be useful for Maemo :) | 04:38 |
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| Robot101 | odin_: telepathy has at least two STUN implementations in it | 04:38 |
| Robot101 | odin_: just fire up a SIP connection and watch the debug log | 04:38 |
| crashanddie | I've seen implementations (MTS, Ukraine), where the clients don't actually ever talk to the remote host (some weird DNS foo + https cheating) | 04:39 |
| Robot101 | and if that's not enough, you could also place a call on XMPP and watch the debug log there :D | 04:39 |
| Robot101 | there are sites like whatsmyip.com too | 04:39 |
| crashanddie | they say it allows for "greater cache speed", I wouldn't be surprised if it also allowed for deep packed inspection, nice logging and MITM | 04:39 |
| odin_ | just yes there is a network protocol (over UDP/TCP) for performing NAT tests to see what type for connectivity you get from where you are | 04:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: you really want your phone exposed to the wider internet - so that a portscan will keep your connection awake? | 04:40 |
| SpeedEvil | and kill battery life? | 04:40 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: I'd hope not, I don't understand why people want their phones directly exposed to the web | 04:40 |
| * GAN900 is so tired of British people in US advertising. | 04:40 | |
| crashanddie | GAN900: trust me, we're tired of 'em in british ads too | 04:41 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: I really want a proper firewall ISP side that I can control :p | 04:41 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: heck, even the aussies are tired of brits in their ads | 04:41 |
| GAN900 | Aussies, too. | 04:41 |
| odin_ | less than 2 years on IPv4 about time on v6, might help deal with spam too | 04:41 |
| GAN900 | Stupid Outback commercials. | 04:41 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: NAT is not a firewall, and firewall is not NAT | 04:41 |
| GAN900 | They make the poor Aussie pitcher on the Rays do Aussie slang quizes for Outback promotions. | 04:42 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: no, but with NAT's not tunneling anything back to anyone it really comes down to a single IP only spawning connections, and not accepting any | 04:42 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: that's the problem | 04:42 |
| luke-jr | IPv6 with a proper customer-controlled firewall is the solution | 04:43 |
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| odin_ | yes allowing the end device control the nature of the firewall it has upstream, would be really good, what does uPNP does in this regard ? | 04:43 |
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| crashanddie | GAN900: for what it's worth, ads from my birthmonth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pC1RSM8sO8 | 04:45 |
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| odin_ | are they black and white ? or just radio audio ? | 04:45 |
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| luke-jr | odin_: uPNP does exactly that, yes | 04:50 |
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| crashanddie | uPNP is a danger | 04:51 |
| odin_ | luke-jr, I think it does more than that and I'm not sure it can have a "pass-all" mode, or "tcpdump filter" mode, its more like "setup a temporary DNAT port-mapping for inbound packets", which might not be feature full enough | 04:52 |
| crashanddie | Allowing arbitrary devices to set up arbitrary routing rules | 04:52 |
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| javispedro | UPNP can be whatever you want it to be | 04:52 |
| odin_ | well I presume a uPNP client may only allow you to setup mappings to your client IP (providing the mapping isn't taken) and I presume it allows for arbitration/negotiation of the port numbers that can be used | 04:53 |
| odin_ | maybe some bad implementations of uPNP allow you to do silly insecure things | 04:53 |
| javispedro | while what I'm going to say it's not entirely true, you can see upnp as a plain rpc protocol | 04:54 |
| javispedro | ms (iirc) standarized a common home router device interface (yes, as in OO) for use by windows | 04:54 |
| javispedro | which only has defined methods for port mappings and simple statistics | 04:55 |
| javispedro | (like the packet counter on xp's network status dialog) | 04:55 |
| odin_ | sound useful! maybe the filterd out packet/data count would be more useful! | 04:56 |
| javispedro | but -- you want to add methods for "self_destroy()" you can do, ofc you'll have to design a custom client for it | 04:56 |
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| crashanddie | odin_: after seeing how prius managed to screw up simple functions like .accelerate(), you're telling me you trust toshiba with your router? | 04:56 |
| odin_ | he no, must router is linux, but maybe a toshiba one will go faster ! :) | 04:57 |
| crashanddie | odin_: "bad implementations" are what manufacturers do to save costs. If it works, it's a sell. If it works before anyone else's, it's a million unit sold | 04:57 |
| crashanddie | s/sold/sale/ | 04:57 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: odin_: "bad implementations" are what manufacturers do to save costs. If it works, it's a sell. If it works before anyone else's, it's a million unit sale | 04:57 |
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| javispedro | yes, toshiba's router will have a 128 MiB rootfs only =) | 04:59 |
| GAN900 | Somebody needs to vote down the d-iilvil themes for putting install instructions in the short description. | 05:00 |
| * crashanddie taps fingers like mister burns, while murmuring "Excellent", and waiting for the next DCC SEND bug | 05:00 | |
| odin_ | what is the law on distributing an application but when the user installs it, the application goes an downloads directly other publicly available data (but not redistributable) ? | 05:00 |
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| crashanddie | odin_: pretty much the same as distributing p2p software | 05:01 |
| crashanddie | odin_: basically, don't distribute the links with the software, make the user type in the URL | 05:01 |
| javispedro | aka noone knows. shoot the lawyers first then ask questions. | 05:01 |
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| crashanddie | odin_: if the URL points to copyrighted material, and you hardcoded the URL into the app, and had control of the URL's content, you are liable | 05:02 |
| odin_ | well the user installing will not see a URL but they will have to acknowldge the action a "robot" goes and does on their behalf, with them taking 1st person responsibility for data usage, I can't see how making them type anything in makes a difference | 05:03 |
| crashanddie | odin_: if however the URL points to an excellent Google ranking for the words "pittipot damiclou", well, fair game really | 05:03 |
| crashanddie | odin_: because you providing specific software doesn't link it with specific material when the user has to find it separately, and type it in manually? | 05:04 |
| crashanddie | (or by clicking on a .torrent file) | 05:04 |
| crashanddie | whereas, if it automatically downloads a file (in other words: the only possible outcome of downloading and installing the software and then running it will result in the user ending up with illegal/copyrighted material), then you are liable for spreading a means to acquire illegal content. | 05:05 |
| odin_ | this is nothing to do with torrents or P2P, the data is actually on a website (and is already publicly available data), I see the torrent being used in the process of distributing copyrighted material that neither the holder, sender, network or receiver have rights to | 05:05 |
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| odin_ | think more like a new aggregation, information comes from news site, thats is much closer analogy | 05:05 |
| crashanddie | then explain your stuff properly in the first place? | 05:06 |
| odin_ | s/new/news/ | 05:06 |
| infobot | odin_ meant: think more like a news aggregation, information comes from news site, thats is much closer analogy | 05:06 |
| crashanddie | though, if it's not redistributable, it probably means they need to accept some kind of ToS or UL | 05:06 |
| crashanddie | who is hosting the info? | 05:07 |
| crashanddie | you or the owners? | 05:07 |
| odin_ | you install a program and during the install a robot goes and obtains information that is publicly available (and having dubious copyright/fair-use rights to view/use it) | 05:07 |
| crashanddie | you are trying to undust the stick to get yourself beaten mate | 05:07 |
| odin_ | the owners of the info, no redistribution is going on, a robot goes and gets it direct every time | 05:07 |
| crashanddie | stop talking about a robot | 05:07 |
| crashanddie | the computer doesn't do it out of its own mind, you instruct it to | 05:08 |
| crashanddie | (or the user) | 05:08 |
| odin_ | a robot is a computerized thing that the owner of the computer commands | 05:08 |
| crashanddie | odin_: if it has dubious copyright, stay well clear of it | 05:08 |
| odin_ | that is why I use the term "robot" | 05:08 |
| crashanddie | link to material? | 05:08 |
| odin_ | its not dubious copyright in that way! | 05:08 |
| odin_ | say a companys logo on their homepage | 05:09 |
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| crashanddie | that is publicly available (and having dubious copyright/fair-use rights to view/use it) | 05:09 |
| odin_ | it is dubious what copyright they have to it, since its public information | 05:09 |
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| crashanddie | erhm, no, it's not | 05:09 |
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| odin_ | so any claim to copyright is dubious, since it is being used in the way the website intended, i.e. to be downlaoded | 05:09 |
| crashanddie | just because it's publicly accessible doesn't mean you're entitled to use it freely as you wish | 05:09 |
| odin_ | Im not using it | 05:09 |
| odin_ | the user the robot is | 05:10 |
| crashanddie | oh ffs, stfu | 05:10 |
| odin_ | ok | 05:10 |
| crashanddie | try to make that distinction in court, I'm telling you what's what, now stop playing dumbass | 05:10 |
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| crashanddie | either you need to start listening, or you don't ask a question you want no answer to | 05:10 |
| crashanddie | fucking troll | 05:11 |
| odin_ | not are not telling my anything, since you are not understanding it in the same terms, you are citing terms that don't seem related to what I'm explaining | 05:11 |
| odin_ | fair enough | 05:11 |
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| luke-jr | crashanddie: I think I get odin_, as bad as he is expressing his idea | 05:52 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: basically, he's talking about software that automatically downloads copyrighted material from the copyright holder's legitimate distribution site | 05:53 |
| * DocScrutinizer points to google maps and other web services, as an example for owner of copyright has the right to define what he thinks is fair use | 05:53 | |
| crashanddie | exactly | 05:53 |
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| luke-jr | for example, the Gentoo N8x0 overlay's ability to automatically download Nokia copyrighted material from Nokia's server | 05:53 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: just because it's *accessible* doesn't make it *free of use* | 05:53 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: because Nokia is doing the distribution, there is no copyright infringement | 05:54 |
| crashanddie | and more specifically, I can have a picture on my website, and say anyone who hotlinks, or copies that, or makes it being displayed through anything else than my full website is copyright infringment | 05:54 |
| luke-jr | copyright only restricts very specific uses-- namely, distribution | 05:54 |
| odin_ | I wasn't trying to cause anyone any ago, but it seems to be an issue in the "mobile application" area | 05:54 |
| odin_ | s/ago/agro/ | 05:54 |
| infobot | odin_ meant: I wasn't trying to cause anyone any agro, but it seems to be an issue in the "mobile application" area | 05:55 |
| luke-jr | once you legally obtain a copy, it's up to you how you want to use it, unless you've signed/agreed to a contract restricting your usage in the meantime | 05:55 |
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| luke-jr | crashanddie: that is utter nonsense | 05:55 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: erhm, no, it's not | 05:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: that's bullshit | 05:55 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: then why does Nokia require agreeing to a contract *before* they distribute the data? | 05:56 |
| crashanddie | because that's their policy | 05:56 |
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| crashanddie | doesn't mean everyone's policy is the same | 05:56 |
| luke-jr | because it's necessary to control usage | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | because they decide to do so | 05:56 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: reading an article on a blog doesn't allow you to repost it somewhere else | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | no!!! | 05:56 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: I didn't say it does | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: exactly | 05:56 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: even though you had the legal right to "obtain a copy" | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: you did | 05:56 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: that's not the same thing at all | 05:56 |
| luke-jr | this is like putting an <iframe> on your site referring to that blog | 05:57 |
| odin_ | mobile application writer (and copyright holder of that app) writes an app, that acts as a robot for the user of the app, which goes and use re-uses information freely available from the internet. the copyright breacher (if there is one) is the app user, since the app writer did not command the robot to perform the breach (the user explicitly was told and consented to an action) | 05:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | which also is a copyright infringement | 05:57 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: nope, an iframe doesn't copy anything | 05:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | tell that to the lawyers | 05:58 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: actually, it displays copyrighted content under your copyrighted page, which is a pretty grey area | 05:58 |
| luke-jr | the viewer's browser makes a request to YOUR server, and YOUR server gives a response | 05:58 |
| luke-jr | all the copying of YOUR content is done by YOUR server which is YOUR responsibility | 05:58 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: it's seriously not clear cut, there are many cases going on about hotlinking | 05:58 |
| SpeedEvil | And it's gone different ways in different jurisdictions | 05:58 |
| luke-jr | if someone doesn't like it, they can refuse requests with unknown Referer headers | 05:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: here in Germany you may go to jail for keeping a href link to a site with incriminate material on your site | 05:59 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: not for copyright infringemnet | 05:59 |
| odin_ | the court my hear, that at all times the copyright owner had control to manage distribution of their material (but failed to do so), however disk caching the object maybe grey area too | 05:59 |
| luke-jr | copyright infringement is a civil matter, not criminal | 05:59 |
| luke-jr | odin_: there are HTTP headers to control caching as well | 06:00 |
| odin_ | unless it relates to DCMA (and you are in the USA) :) | 06:00 |
| crashanddie | DMCA | 06:00 |
| luke-jr | odin_: none of this is DMCA-related | 06:00 |
| luke-jr | unless you spoof User-Agent or Referer maybe | 06:00 |
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| luke-jr | that could arguably be breaking a copy protection measure... | 06:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: no, but for copyright infringement every day 5k noobs pay k$$$ of royalties to those holding copyright of the iframed pictures | 06:00 |
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| crashanddie | odin_: you're talking crap, and really just trolling | 06:00 |
| odin_ | luke-jr, I understand that too, re Cache-Control/Pragma headers, yes none of this is DMCA related | 06:00 |
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| luke-jr | crashanddie: if your position were valid, Gentoo is illegal ;) | 06:01 |
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| crashanddie | luke-jr: eh? | 06:01 |
| crashanddie | how so? | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: Gentoo's Portage tree links and automatically downloads non-redistributable files | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | such as nVidia's blob | 06:01 |
| crashanddie | nope, it is redistributable | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | is it now? | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | wasn't last time I checked | 06:02 |
| crashanddie | considering you need to accept the ToS when installing it | 06:02 |
| crashanddie | or whatever their licence is called | 06:02 |
| luke-jr | there's no legal basis for EULAs in most places including the USA :) | 06:02 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: it is freely redistributable | 06:02 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: and again, nvidia allows direct wget'ing of their tar, that's their issue, but doesn't make it a global acceptance for everyone | 06:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | IANL, and this is a really SILLY discussion | 06:02 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: in all cases we're discussing, the copyright holder allowed the copy | 06:03 |
| odin_ | what if robots auto-click EULAs (and all that) | 06:03 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: if my website says "None of this material is to be used outside this website's boundaries", then it is your duty to respect it | 06:03 |
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| luke-jr | crashanddie: only if I copy it | 06:04 |
| odin_ | it wgets, boots up Xnest, runs installer with GUI into Xnext, clicks the OK button and exits (more grey area) | 06:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: even worse, that's considered default policy | 06:04 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: Fair use in copyright law may trounce that. | 06:04 |
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| crashanddie | luke-jr: no, he didn't, odin_ *never* said the website accepted it. He said it had "dubious copyright/fair-use rights to view/use it" | 06:04 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: you can't force me to comply with your demands; if I don't make a copy, you have nothing to barter with | 06:04 |
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| crashanddie | luke-jr: in which case, he should get written approval, which in most cases will be 200 times easier to get than speculating on this without a lawyer familiar with your jurisdiction's laws and regulations | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: bs, copyright isn't about ""COPY" | 06:05 |
| luke-jr | at least in the USA, distribution online is "done" by the uploader-- in this case, YOU, the copyright holder | 06:05 |
| odin_ | yes the usage I am thinking through would by many be seen are fair use, my use of "dubious copyright/fair-use" was in relation to the copyright holders dubious claim over the material, in light of fair-usage of it (just to clarify that again, at not time was I referring to any already illegal content) | 06:06 |
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| luke-jr | I don't need to agree to any terms to view your website, unless you present those terms to me up front and decline to copy the site to me until I've agreed to them | 06:06 |
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| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: fair use, yes, but not integral copy of artwork. odin_ has been obtusely arguing about having a robot "copying copyrighted material", which doesn't seem fair use at all | 06:06 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: storing data to disk that the copyright holder's server sends you is undeniably fair use, especially if there's no header saying "don't cache this" | 06:07 |
| odin_ | well its thats true, the software-robot is downloading a potentially copyrights object from a webserver for display purposes, so yes in effect it must copy it to do that | 06:07 |
| crashanddie | odin_: how about you just clearly state what the fuck you're talking about instead of remaining with such opake and unclear terms? | 06:07 |
| crashanddie | ~sp opake | 06:07 |
| crashanddie | ~dict opake | 06:07 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'opake' \O*pake"\, a. See {Opaque}. [1913 Webster] | 06:07 |
| crashanddie | ~thanks | 06:07 |
| infobot | crashanddie: no problem | 06:07 |
| odin_ | but the real grey area comes into what happens if you attempt to "store it", as I think that of that as being the real breach, but then HTTP caches store it in say Firefox | 06:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Machines cannot enter contracts. | 06:08 |
| SpeedEvil | _ever_ | 06:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Neither can chimps. | 06:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Only humans can direct those machines to enter contracts or licences. | 06:08 |
| * DocScrutinizer throws a remark into discussion about missing concept of "fair use" in Europe (at least Germany), then wanders off to ##hobby-lawyers | 06:08 | |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: neither can humans, unless given an opportunity to deliberate and back out, and in many jurisdictions, both parties need to gain something | 06:08 |
| odin_ | of course they can't and that was never the point, the "user of the software" enters the contact, not the creator of the software, this is the contract between the copyright holder and the "user of the software" | 06:08 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: yes - that's a seperate issue. | 06:09 |
| crashanddie | may I suggest this discussion be taken elsewhere? | 06:09 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: you seem to be arguing that ... | 06:09 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 06:09 |
| crashanddie | considering we've grossly overstepped the bounds of #maemo? | 06:09 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie++ | 06:09 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: hotlinking never makes a copy, so there is no opportunity for the target's copyright holder to demand any terms | 06:09 |
| odin_ | the term robot is used throuhgout to emphasis the relationship between the "action" and the "control of the action" | 06:09 |
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| odin_ | sure thing | 06:10 |
| luke-jr | anyhow | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: bs, copyright isn't about ""COPY" | 06:10 |
| luke-jr | the reason I checked this tab... | 06:10 |
| luke-jr | anyone get GPIO in 2.6.33? | 06:11 |
| crashanddie | odin_: PM | 06:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | german word for copyright is Urheberrecht, which doesn't contain the notion of copy anything, instead it is about the creator of IP has the right to define what he wants to be done with the IP and what not | 06:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and a lot of people pay lots of royalties for iframing logos or pictures they have not been granted to use | 06:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no matter if that's "a copy" or whatelse | 06:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's a weaker form of a patent | 06:18 |
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| Termana | Wouldn't bypassing the EULA acceptance by directly downloading it be breaking a copy protection measure? (eg. the EULA acceptance protects copying). Maybe not in the strictest sense, but if you broaden the meanings a bit | 06:19 |
| Termana | I doubt it would be under any such laws either | 06:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer sighs | 06:22 | |
| DocScrutinizer | do you think a cover version of a song is a 'COPY'? | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | do you think you're free to do cover versions as you like? | 06:22 |
| Termana | no? | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | NO! | 06:23 |
| Termana | you have to have the appropriate licenses | 06:23 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: she ain't arguing that | 06:23 |
| crashanddie | Termana = she? | 06:23 |
| Termana | no? | 06:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | because the original songwriter holds the COPYRIGHT | 06:23 |
| crashanddie | ah, my bad | 06:23 |
| Termana | At least not last time I checked | 06:23 |
| crashanddie | Termana: sounds pretty girly, apologies | 06:23 |
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| Termana | DocScrutinizer, I wasn't saying anything about the debate, I was merely saying, in the broad sense of the words copy protection measure, couldn't that include a EULA being used | 06:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | until now an EULA wasn't considered a copy protection in any trial I heard of. Would be rather silly | 06:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | as an EULA is to *grant* usage of some IP under certain conditions, not to stop a copying process | 06:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | bu I bet tomorrow some evil lawyer will try to make a point based on that notion, in some trial somewhere | 06:37 |
| odin_ | also the EULA is not re-asserted for every "session of access with the works", since part of DMCA is about "access control to copyrighted works", the holder must demonstrate they took measure to control/restrict access, but it is before the initial copy/installation process, all very grey | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I give a shit on DMCA, as we got no such thing here in Europe, and bye | 06:39 |
| * DocScrutinizer off for breakfast | 06:39 | |
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| thunderfest | hello all | 07:13 |
| thunderfest | I just bought a n900 it should be here tomorrow I'm pretty excited | 07:14 |
| thunderfest | how can there be 511 people in a channel and no one to talk too? | 07:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm? | 07:18 |
| thunderfest | hey how is going? | 07:19 |
| thunderfest | is it* | 07:19 |
| thunderfest | yeah I'm really excited I cannot wait for my N900 to get here | 07:20 |
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| jaem | Good evening :) | 07:24 |
| thunderfest | good evening | 07:24 |
| thunderfest | I just bought a n900 it should come tomorrow I'm quite excited | 07:26 |
| ml-something | cool | 07:29 |
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| jaem | thunderfest, \o/ | 07:30 |
| jaem | Join the party. :) | 07:30 |
| jaem | I just walked into my room and found my computer speakers playing the radio. | 07:30 |
| jaem | EM noise is fun! | 07:30 |
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| thunderfest | do you guys do much development? | 07:31 |
| jaem | It had me a bit confused for a moment, though. :P | 07:31 |
| jaem | thunderfest, I do a bit, personally. I'm currently employed at my university for the summer, coding for the N900, though. :) | 07:32 |
| jaem | What about you? | 07:32 |
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| thunderfest | same also currently employed for my university for the summer | 07:32 |
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| thunderfest | doing multi-touch stuff though not n900 stuff | 07:33 |
| jaem | thunderfest, Awesome - which university? | 07:33 |
| thunderfest | East Carolina | 07:33 |
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| thunderfest | you? | 07:33 |
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| jaem | Simon Fraser (Burnaby, British Columbia) | 07:34 |
| thunderfest | ECU is in north Carolina in the states | 07:34 |
| thunderfest | the CS department here is not that great | 07:35 |
| * ljp works all day on development | 07:35 | |
| jaem | Ah. What sort of tech are you working with? | 07:35 |
| thunderfest | what do you mean | 07:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ljp: heh, I guess almost everybody should know :-) | 07:36 |
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| jaem | thunderfest, is it laptops? touch-tables? mobile? | 07:36 |
| thunderfest | ahh | 07:36 |
| ljp | DocScrutinizer: I'm also developing kids in my spare time :) | 07:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 07:37 |
| thunderfest | well we have a table I built a could years ago and I'm about to start build a lcd wall | 07:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcd wall, hmmm yummy | 07:37 |
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| ljp | handball lcd wall!! | 07:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | some 20 years ago I was involved in monitor wall development | 07:38 |
| ljp | or skateboard lcd wall | 07:38 |
| thunderfest | this is not really a LCD wall its just one big LCD screen that is multi-touch just wall mounted and not table top | 07:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 07:39 |
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| jaem | What type of multitouch are you using? | 07:40 |
| thunderfest | FTIR | 07:40 |
| jaem | Neat | 07:40 |
| * jaem is a bit frustrated | 07:41 | |
| thunderfest | its ok I don't really care for doing all the hardware stuff I'm much more into building software | 07:41 |
| * DocScrutinizer googles for FTIR | 07:42 | |
| jaem | I forgot to snapshot my SDK VM before updating it to [that thing we don't talk about] | 07:42 |
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| jaem | Luckily, my current code is not dependent on anything that makes a difference, so it still builds for the device fine right now. | 07:42 |
| thunderfest | I have been developing some gesture recognition algorithms they are coming quite nicely | 07:43 |
| thunderfest | I've ported some of then to my n810 | 07:43 |
| jaem | thunderfest, is the N810 code public (or able to be published?) | 07:43 |
| thunderfest | not yet | 07:43 |
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| thunderfest | my university will let me open the code after we finish publishing some papers | 07:44 |
| jaem | Is the porting part of a larger project, or just for platform/reference purposes? | 07:45 |
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| thunderfest | just for fun really | 07:45 |
| jaem | That's nice of them. The bulk of what we're working on won't be, and I can understand, but we have published one component already under LGPL. | 07:45 |
| jaem | Hmm... just out of curiousity, does anyone know how Maemo exposes/stores its call log info? | 07:46 |
| thunderfest | it took alot of convincing on my part I don't understand why academics are so afraid of open source sometimes | 07:47 |
| thunderfest | for the n900? | 07:47 |
| jaem | It's not actually relevant to me, given the circumstances, but I know some carriers offer plans with, say, 5 "friends" numbers as unlimited, and a friend was asking if there was a way to display call timers with calls to those numbers deducted, so you could see how much of your general airtime was left. | 07:48 |
| jaem | thunderfest, Yes. | 07:48 |
| thunderfest | I think I saw a thread about it on maemo.org but I don't have a link | 07:48 |
| thunderfest | some folks were complaining about the built in call history app and some others went on to explain the the logger actuality logs alot more information then is shown | 07:50 |
| jaem | thunderfest, Hmm, it is a bit odd, I'd agree. In my situation, they're receptive to it, but the core of the project is a bunch of fancy math that they hope to license out commercially at some point. | 07:50 |
| jaem | In that case, I can see why, even though my penguin-hugging side wishes it wasn't so. ;) | 07:50 |
| jaem | Yeah, I think I saw that at some point. | 07:50 |
| jaem | As I was saying, it's kind of moot for me, as the only carrier in Canada that properly supports the N900 doesn't offer that sort of plan. | 07:51 |
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| thunderfest | are you a student or faculty? | 07:51 |
| jaem | I'm an undergraduate student. | 07:51 |
| thunderfest | ah I'm a masters student I have two undergrad degrees in math and comp sci | 07:52 |
| jaem | I'm actually pretty stoked right now, because my evil dumphone contract is up at the end of the summer, and I'll be able to start using my N900 (which I get free as part of the research deal) | 07:52 |
| thunderfest | thats pretty sweet | 07:52 |
| jaem | Conveniently enough, the new carrier that supports the phone is just rolling into town around the same time. | 07:53 |
| jaem | Take a look-see: http://shop.windmobile.ca/ProductCatalog/VoicePlans/PlanDetails.aspx?id=Always+Shout+-+EverybodyWinds+offer | 07:53 |
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| thunderfest | I cannot wait for my n900 to get here tomorrow | 07:53 |
| jaem | The only catch appears to be that since the carrier is brand new, anything much outside the city areas they're building out from is actually roaming on a competitor's network. | 07:54 |
| thunderfest | is roaming extra | 07:54 |
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| thunderfest | I have not had a GSM phone in years | 07:55 |
| jaem | thunderfest, yes, that's the thing. When the page refers to a "WIND Zone", they mean their own network. So, if you go somewhere they don't have coverage, you'll get billed over-and-above the plan cost. | 07:55 |
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| jaem | As they expand, though, that becomes less of a problem | 07:55 |
| thunderfest | I've been using sip over wifi for quite some time | 07:55 |
| jaem | Gah! I forgot to turn off the haunted speakers, and just realized that the annoying noise I kept hearing was them. | 07:56 |
| jaem | :) | 07:56 |
| jaem | I really need to check into that properly... I hope that's not coming over the power lines. | 07:56 |
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| thunderfest | has anyone tried the clarivue mirror finish screen protector ... I've hear some good things about the ultra clear but what about the mirror? | 07:59 |
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| opdf2 | i haven't, but I love the Vikuiti DQC-160 I got on | 08:00 |
| thunderfest | I have heard alot of good things about that one too | 08:00 |
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| thunderfest | but it seems to be a bit harder to get here in the states | 08:01 |
| thunderfest | do you know of a reseller? | 08:02 |
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| opdf2 | Not in the states. I am from the states and ordered from protectionfilms24.com | 08:02 |
| opdf2 | Ships from Germany I think? | 08:03 |
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| jacekowski | probably china | 08:03 |
| opdf2 | I can't remember how long it took to ship because of the volcano ash | 08:03 |
| thunderfest | shipping still free even over sees | 08:03 |
| jacekowski | 4 weeks from EU to AU | 08:04 |
| jacekowski | on ship | 08:04 |
| RST38h | hey Arkenoi | 08:05 |
| opdf2 | Yes shipping is free. | 08:05 |
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| * RST38h automatically assumed astronomical unit when he saw "AU". | 08:07 | |
| jaem | RST38h, how many attoParsecs is it between those areas? :P | 08:07 |
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| RST38h | Who knows... This problem is still awaiting its scientific genius | 08:09 |
| RST38h | Somebody who has tmo moderation privileges, do take a look at the Vietnamese bozo | 08:10 |
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| jaem | RST38h, oh, what now? | 08:10 |
| jaem | Spam, or trolling? | 08:10 |
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| RST38h | Spam, selling stolen credit card data | 08:10 |
| jaem | Lovely... | 08:10 |
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| RST38h | And the f2hak guy too | 08:11 |
| jaem | That rings a bell... context? | 08:11 |
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| RST38h | Sorry, no, the name is HARDE, the title is "Buy Apple iPhone 3GS 32GB $180 Nokia N8 $250USD" | 08:12 |
| jaem | Oh, that. | 08:12 |
| jaem | The name you mentioned was one I recognized, that's all. Probably from previous incidents | 08:12 |
| * RST38h amusedly notices that the trolls now started whining about N900 shortcomings in Chinese | 08:12 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | LOLLER | 08:18 |
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| mintux | MohammadAG: hey how are you . I bought n900 yesterday but I don't find arabic or perian language . I need it for keyboard only for search in google or sms or chat | 08:22 |
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| * DocScrutinizer thought there's arabic keyboard layout | 08:23 | |
| DocScrutinizer | not in the default image ootb though | 08:23 |
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| mintux | what do you mean by image ? | 08:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, the firmware, the set of software packages, whatever | 08:24 |
| mintux | DocScrutinizer: means I can append that language as a package ? | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd guess yes | 08:25 |
| jaem | mintux, I heard some rumblings about arabic keyboard something-or-other recently, but I didn't read the thread(s). | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | somebody built a keyborad layout for arabic iirc | 08:25 |
| mintux | hmm | 08:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway the keycap prints probably are hard to change ;-P | 08:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | not a problem if you're good at blind typing | 08:27 |
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| jaem | So, question for you all. | 08:27 |
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| mintux | I installed pygtkeditor also but it doesn't highlight source and everything was black . also auto close bracket doesn't work . what are facilities of that editor ? | 08:28 |
| jaem | For the research we're doing, someone contacts us and asks to see a demo video. As part of this, I've been asked to put together some sort of semi-automated system that will allow us to quickly generate screenvids of our demo app simulating real-world functionality. | 08:29 |
| jaem | The app (in the simulation mode) will run on a desktop/laptop as-is. | 08:29 |
| jaem | However, I'm wondering if you folks have any suggestions about how best to create the video. | 08:29 |
| jaem | I assume I'd have to be running it in SBox/Xephyr in order for it to look like a native Maemo app, right? | 08:30 |
| jaem | Or can I fudge it in a native build on my desktop with themes and such? | 08:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | run it on N900? ;-P | 08:30 |
| jaem | DocScrutinizer, last I checked, the screenvid applet had problems. | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno why | 08:31 |
| jaem | Also, ideally we'd want to do it off-device; ideally, I'd hand a data file to a script and go grab a snack. Heh. | 08:31 |
| jaem | That would be harder to do reliably on-device, for me. | 08:31 |
| RST38h | http://gizmodo.com/5542056/hitlers-bunker-and-apartment/gallery/9 | 08:32 |
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| RST38h | Hehe | 08:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | jaem: but N900 has a CVBS video out you can record on any standard video grabber | 08:32 |
| jaem | DocScrutinizer, there's a bug on it - I don't have the link handy. | 08:32 |
| jaem | DocScrutinizer, True, although I don't have one. | 08:33 |
| jaem | The CS lab has some machines with video input, but that's more messy than I'd like. | 08:34 |
| jaem | I was just looking for suggestions/advice/opinions on the viability of recording from SBox vs doing it on a desktop build. | 08:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't want to think about how messy recording xephyr might get | 08:34 |
| jaem | DocScrutinizer, That's why I was asking - I've never tried, but I kind of had a feeling... :P | 08:35 |
| Macer | hm. someone needs to make maemo for wii :-P | 08:35 |
| Macer | heh | 08:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably nobody ever did before :-P | 08:35 |
| jaem | Macer, it's called MeeGo? | 08:35 |
| Macer | hahaha | 08:35 |
| Macer | jaem: nobody knows! | 08:35 |
| RST38h | Wiigo | 08:36 |
| Macer | :) | 08:36 |
| jaem | RST38h, Please, no! *hides* | 08:36 |
| Macer | hahaha | 08:36 |
| Macer | if pr 1.2 comes out with a meego banner then i'll be satisfied :) | 08:36 |
| jaem | Macer, *gasp* you said the forbidden word! | 08:36 |
| jaem | Banhammer, quick! ;) | 08:36 |
| * DocScrutinizer burrrps | 08:36 | |
| * Macer hides under a rock | 08:37 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | life of Brian - "he said the word!!" | 08:37 |
| Macer | i was software modding my wii.. well.. it already was.. i was just updating it | 08:38 |
| Macer | it's amazing the sorts of things that start to work when you put off updating for like 9 months | 08:38 |
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| jaem | Hmm... well, does Maemo 5 do any voodoo with the Qt theming, or is it something I could theoretically shoehorn onto a desktop machine? | 08:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, should work, no? | 08:39 |
| Macer | batterygraph is qt :) | 08:39 |
| jaem | -shrug- I've never looked into it. For that matter, is it even a native theme, or using the GTK+ themer through a wrapper, as on KDE SC, for example? | 08:40 |
| * jaem checks | 08:40 | |
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| mintux | I put deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ diablo free non-free in source list but when I update lt's return error some index failds to download ... is it correct address ? | 08:54 |
| jaem | mintux, where did you enter that? | 08:55 |
| jacekowski | diablo? | 08:55 |
| jaem | Or that... heh | 08:55 |
| jacekowski | jaem: he said sources.list | 08:55 |
| jaem | mintux, which device is this on? | 08:55 |
| jaem | jacekowski, yes, but there are two. | 08:55 |
| mintux | n900 | 08:55 |
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| jacekowski | mintux: it should be fremantle | 08:55 |
| jaem | mintux, well, then diablo should be fremantle, to start. | 08:55 |
| jacekowski | and you should do it via app manager btw. | 08:55 |
| jaem | mintux, if you must do it via command line, be aware that the normal sources.list will get overwritten by the App Manager, which keeps its own. I'm not sure why they do that. | 08:56 |
| mintux | ok | 08:56 |
| mintux | jaem: im in app manager distribution field has fremantle and in componentes are free and non-free is that correct? | 08:58 |
| jaem | mintux, should be. | 08:59 |
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| jaem | Do you want me to check (I'll be a second) | 08:59 |
| mintux | ok | 09:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | incredible, my extras catalog is gone :-o | 09:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, ssems that's maemo.org now | 09:02 |
| jaem | mintux, That's correct. | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | http:repository.maemo.org/extras/ | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | fremantle | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | free non-free | 09:03 |
| jaem | -testing and -devel should be the same, except with the suffix on the "extras" bit | 09:03 |
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| mintux | I did update list. but I don't see any extra package in softeare lists | 09:04 |
| mintux | **software | 09:04 |
| jaem | mintux, Did you not have extras in the list at all before? | 09:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mintux: btw maemo.org aka extras isn't editable/deletable here | 09:05 |
| mintux | no | 09:05 |
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| jaem | DocScrutinizer, sorry? | 09:05 |
| mintux | I don't have extra icon | 09:05 |
| mintux | jaem: ^ | 09:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | mintux: extras is called 'maemo.org' here in HAM, and I neither can edit nor delete it | 09:06 |
| jaem | mintux, yes, but I missed the beginning of all of this, I guess. Did you get the Extras repo deleted from the list originally, or something? | 09:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | mintux: so I'd guess you should have that as well | 09:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | as it seems to be 'hardcoded' to HAM | 09:07 |
| mintux | extras in my catalog list and I did update nothing add in my list | 09:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | mintux: nobody ever cares about catalog list text file | 09:08 |
| jaem | mintux, very roughly, how many program entries would you say you are seeing in HAM? | 09:08 |
| mintux | so where should I looking for | 09:08 |
| jaem | off the top of your head. | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | mintux: look in application manager for "maemo.org" catalog | 09:09 |
| mintux | ok | 09:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | mintux: menu -> catalogs | 09:09 |
| mintux | then | 09:09 |
| mintux | im there | 09:09 |
| mintux | http:repository.maemo.org/extras/ | 09:10 |
| mintux | fremantle | 09:10 |
| mintux | free non-free | 09:10 |
| jaem | mintux, that's Extras | 09:10 |
| jaem | they changed the name | 09:10 |
| mintux | hmm | 09:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | so that's extras, no? | 09:10 |
| mintux | yes | 09:10 |
| mintux | but suppose I would like to install unzip | 09:10 |
| mintux | where can I find it | 09:11 |
| mintux | it's not in my package | 09:11 |
| mintux | list | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's probably in extras-devel, or even tools | 09:11 |
| jaem | mintux, oh... the actual command line "unzip" package wouldn't be | 09:11 |
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| jaem | I think it is in extras, but you'll have to install it with apt-get. | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe that | 09:11 |
| jaem | The unzip file manager addon is in -testing or -devel, I think. | 09:11 |
| mintux | I try with apt-get but it didn't find | 09:11 |
| jaem | ...if that's what you're looking for. | 09:11 |
| jaem | mintux, Check the maemo.org packages search? | 09:12 |
| mintux | so should I add extras-devel? | 09:12 |
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| jaem | mintux, check -testing first. | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway rule of thumb is you need apt-get install for non-GUI packages | 09:12 |
| mintux | means add -testing where? | 09:12 |
| jaem | DocScrutinizer, You mean I need to use the console to get console apps?! Madness! | 09:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | mintux: yep, if you want to dare, then add extras-devel to application manager catalogs | 09:13 |
| mintux | in components? | 09:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | jaem: yes, nuts, isn't it? | 09:13 |
| jaem | mintux, sorry, copy the "maemo.org" repo info into a new cataloge, but in the URL, change "extras" to "extras-testing" or "extras-devel" | 09:13 |
| * jaem shakes his head | 09:13 | |
| mintux | got it | 09:13 |
| mintux | :-Dsorry | 09:14 |
| mintux | testing is safe than devel? | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | a little | 09:15 |
| jaem | mintux, yes. -testing is the "beta" repo, and -devel is the repo that kills cute animals. | 09:15 |
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| mintux | hmm | 09:15 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:20 |
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| Jaffa | GAN900: ping | 09:20 |
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| Corsac | hmhm, nice, it seems I can make the desktop crash when pressing the top button | 09:21 |
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| jaem | Corsac, yay? | 09:21 |
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| Corsac | rebooting just in case | 09:24 |
| Corsac | (and I hate when some widgets aren't restarted when desktop crashes) | 09:25 |
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| dotblank | are we there yet? | 09:25 |
| Corsac | seems fixed after reboot | 09:25 |
| jaem | dotblank, I'd say "no", because that's the stereotypical answer, however, if you elaborate, maybe I can be more helpful. :P | 09:26 |
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| mintux | something typed in my phone and send to me. what's that ?????? see http://codepad.org/l93TY05p these typed in conversation yahoo on my n900 | 09:29 |
| mintux | it's hack or something like that ? | 09:29 |
| Stskeeps | someone trying to, probably | 09:29 |
| mintux | who? how ? | 09:30 |
| Stskeeps | but that output is from where? :P | 09:30 |
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| mintux | what shall I do now ? | 09:31 |
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| mintux | when I installed extra plugin for converesation and add IRc this happened | 09:31 |
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| Corsac | when connected to an irc chan? | 09:33 |
| mintux | yep | 09:33 |
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| mintux | and i'v got it from extra-testing repository | 09:34 |
| mintux | please check that if someone write a trojan or something like that | 09:34 |
| mintux | but it send from yahoo | 09:34 |
| mintux | 1 id is enable on my phone | 09:35 |
| mintux | and 1 id is enable on my pc | 09:35 |
| mintux | with the id from phone that texts sent to me from yahoo messenger | 09:35 |
| mintux | it seems windows command | 09:36 |
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| mintux | jonny.lamb@collabora.co.uk made that package | 09:40 |
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| pupnik | mintux: quite a mystery :) | 09:43 |
| pupnik | what sort of client would execute that in a dos shell? (or some other execution environment?) | 09:43 |
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| viliny__ | eh... :P | 09:46 |
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| * mintux loves linux mint | 09:46 | |
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| jaem | mintux, the package isn't malicious - you can be pretty sure of that. | 09:48 |
| jacekowski | well, probably somebody on irc sent you that | 09:48 |
| jaem | Probably just IM spam | 09:48 |
| jaem | exactly | 09:48 |
| jacekowski | that's what happens when you install packages that you don't know how to use | 09:48 |
| jacekowski | or don't rtfm | 09:48 |
| jacekowski | before using them | 09:48 |
| jacekowski | s/or/and/ | 09:48 |
| infobot | jacekowski meant: befande using them | 09:48 |
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| jaem | jacekowski, fail | 09:48 |
| jaem | :) | 09:48 |
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| mintux | nooo I have 2 yahoo id => mrglinux (it log on my phone) and hesedigar is login on my pc . the window was open. I don't touch phone but from phone that texts send to me and I see the phone .it look like somebody type it in my phone in yahoo id and press send and I got it in my pc from second id | 09:50 |
| mintux | what is the spam here? | 09:51 |
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| viliny__ | So you managed the get a maemo phone infected with something that spams your contact lists with potentially dangerous lins/commands ? | 09:52 |
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| jacekowski | viliny__: doubt that | 09:53 |
| mintux | I just install some softwrae | 09:53 |
| jacekowski | i think he doesn't know what happened | 09:54 |
| mintux | I bought it yesterday | 09:54 |
| * mintux thinks take photo from phone and put it here | 09:54 | |
| jacekowski | i hate people doing that | 09:54 |
| jacekowski | there is screenshot app avaliable | 09:54 |
| jacekowski | use it | 09:54 |
| mintux | I didn't know | 09:55 |
| mintux | I installed now | 09:55 |
| mintux | install | 09:55 |
| jacekowski | i have to go now | 09:55 |
| mintux | what is the pacakge name ? for take screenshot? | 09:56 |
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| Nitial | you don't even need app for it. ctrl+shift+p does the job | 09:56 |
| mintux | ok | 09:56 |
| jacekowski | Nitial: and 3rd hand would be usefull as well | 09:57 |
| pupnik | ~Fruity Oaty Bars, make a man out of a mouse...~ | 09:58 |
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| mikki-kun | jacekowski: naw, three hands on the n900's keyboard? are you kidding? i'd say i have a lil smaller hands than average and with two hands the keyboard is already full ^^ | 10:02 |
| mintux | jacekowski: screenshot of my phone http://img6.tinypic.info/files/tusc5bei1jdjw9ht2dq1.png and my computer http://img6.tinypic.info/files/p7zn7tmlixzax9lc4m2n.png I know what happened | 10:03 |
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| jaem | Nitial, screencap is built in? Really? | 10:03 |
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| Nitial | yes | 10:05 |
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| mintux | it send from my pc to phone | 10:05 |
| mintux | not phon to pc | 10:05 |
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| mintux | amazing | 10:05 |
| hrw | morning | 10:05 |
| jaem | morning, hrw | 10:05 |
| mintux | but here is pidgin and there is no spam or something like that for pidgin . what does it mean | 10:06 |
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| mikki-kun | mintux: hu? no spam in pidgin? you know it depends more on the protocol you are using not on the messenger itself whether spam arrives you or not... | 10:08 |
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| jaem | mintux, that's true. Unless you have a client that has a built-in spam filter (I don't know of any with that by default), then the client isn't going to have an effect | 10:09 |
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| mintux | hmm | 10:10 |
| mintux | I didn't see it before | 10:10 |
| mintux | yahoo messenger maybe be damaged with virus or hacked because on windows and ... but pidgin and linux is very hard to break | 10:11 |
| mikki-kun | mintux: trust me, i got at some point a hell lot of spam... don't know who sold my UIN out but i get several times a day some goddamn "friend requests" in ICQ from some russians | 10:11 |
| mintux | hmm | 10:11 |
| mikki-kun | nothing against russians, just the spam is hell a lot of annoying | 10:11 |
| mintux | when cable of power connected the display doesn't turn off? | 10:12 |
| mikki-kun | mintux: trust me, linux is not unbreakable... in fact every day at least there is an exploit found in damaging your system badly... most harmful case is the user himself ^^ | 10:12 |
| mintux | ok | 10:13 |
| frals | BAH | 10:13 |
| viliny__ | so russia pretty much owned finland in ice hockey yesterday. I swear, every time i muster the intrest to watch that crap it follows the same formula: Start off exciting and end with a brutal letdown - done with hockey for a couple more years :P | 10:14 |
| viliny__ | Goddamn russians ^^ | 10:14 |
| frals | why does the 'downloads' page for an application reset itself randomly? | 10:14 |
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| jaem | mintux, I think mikki-kun may be exaggerating a bit, but the point is still valid. Linux is generally quite secure, but User Error is still by far the leading cause of problems on any OS. | 10:14 |
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| mikki-kun | viliny__: but finland played really bad yesterday... what the hell were they doing? no attacks just some "here, your puck, try doing something" | 10:14 |
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| jaem | ...also, spam happens. If your computer were infected, ads/spam would probably *not* be being piped into your IM client - there are many better ways to present ads when you've already infected a computer. | 10:15 |
| jaem | Heh. | 10:15 |
| mikki-kun | jaem: can just report of my first linux-experiences ^^ tried suse 4 years ago.... damn, i killed gdm and i didn't know anymore what to do :D in th aftermath something really funny ^^ | 10:16 |
| mintux | when my phone connected to the cable of power somebody call on my phone but I didn't answer but display didn't turn off after 30 seconds . ( I unplugged cable ) but display was still light until I press lock screen and keyboard. why ? now I doesn't worl with my phone but display is on too ( cable is connected now ) | 10:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | blarrgh, modem stuck at 2.5 for 5h. Had to swith to 3G-only and back to dual to fix it | 10:16 |
| viliny__ | mikki-kun: started off promising and ended with blue balls - standard procedure :P | 10:16 |
| mikki-kun | viliny__: but hey, at least next opponent is not canada | 10:17 |
| mikki-kun | that's now the winners problem :D | 10:17 |
| jaem | mikki-kun, hehe... one of my earliest serious mess-ups was a typo that moved the contents of /usr to a subdirectory of itself. >_< | 10:17 |
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| mikki-kun | ö.ö now that is also bad :D | 10:17 |
| jaem | Luckily, the one app that didn't quickly bail on me was an IDE with a console embedded in it, and I was able to repair the damage without rebooting. | 10:17 |
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| mikki-kun | but the thing could have been easily repaired with a live-usb | 10:19 |
| jaem | Yes, but at the time, I didn't know if rebooting would have done more damage. | 10:19 |
| jaem | Gah... I'm an idiot. I just tar'd a symlink and transferred it across machines, only to realize that I didn't have any of the files in the *actual* folder | 10:20 |
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| mikki-kun | jaem: yeah, with compressing files i had also my share... | 10:22 |
| mikki-kun | it's way easier doing that via command line than with a GUI i think | 10:22 |
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| mintux | how can I play the flv movie from youtube ( I grab it form /tmp ) it doesn't play even I renamed to .flv but it doesn't play | 10:27 |
| kPb_in | hello all.. how can i install qemu on n900?? do i need to add another repo? | 10:27 |
| jaem | kPb_in, QEmu ... *on* ... the N900? | 10:27 |
| jaem | I doubt you can. | 10:27 |
| jaem | At least, you can't right now. | 10:27 |
| jaem | What are you trying to do? | 10:27 |
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| jaem | mintux, the stock media player won't play FLV | 10:27 |
| jaem | MPlayer or one of its graphical frontends will. | 10:28 |
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| jaem | Try KMplayer if aren't comfortable with the command line - I think it's available somewhere. | 10:28 |
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| kPb_in | jaem, bochs is available.. just wanted to play around | 10:28 |
| kPb_in | :) | 10:28 |
| jaem | kPb_in, Ah... to my knowledge, there is no QEmu port. | 10:28 |
| kPb_in | jaem, ok | 10:29 |
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| mikki-kun | jaem: i find SIB way easier to use than KMplayer... KMplayer gave me sometimes crashes... | 10:29 |
| jaem | SIB? | 10:29 |
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| jaem | ...and yeah, I'm not a fan of KMPlayer - it's just all I could think of off the top of my head. | 10:29 |
| mikki-kun | yeah, it's as well a front-end to mplayer, just more touchfriendly | 10:30 |
| jaem | Huh... is it in the repos? | 10:30 |
| mikki-kun | yeah, but i think in -devel | 10:30 |
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| n9user1 | hi everyone ... i'm having a little problem installing maemo5 sdk on the fedora core 12 | 10:31 |
| mikki-kun | WTF?! i getting all the time "operation failed' messages now after the remake of my n900, but the operations still complete successfully | 10:31 |
| n9user1 | it says "you must manually run 'dpkg -- configure -a' | 10:32 |
| n9user1 | dont know how to do that .. | 10:32 |
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| mikki-kun | does fedora even use dpkg? | 10:32 |
| n9user1 | no it doesnt. Thats what i'm thinking, maybe the py installation file of m5 needs some fix? | 10:33 |
| n9user1 | I googled, and a blog mentioned installing it on fedora, but its talking about some old sdk installation file | 10:33 |
| n9user1 | btw mikki-kun, the operation failed msgs, used to come in some older fw afair | 10:34 |
| mikki-kun | let's see if PR1.1.1 changes that | 10:35 |
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| n9user1 | yea it'll | 10:35 |
| mikki-kun | i won't "upgrade" to PR1.2 | 10:35 |
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| n9user1 | pr1.2 is not out yet. | 10:35 |
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| mikki-kun | n9user1: there is the "offical leaked version" ^^ | 10:36 |
| mikki-kun | but that i won't touch | 10:36 |
| mikki-kun | wuhu "Operating system successfully updated"... reminds me of windows somehow atm where it tells you everything you don't need to know... | 10:36 |
| n9user1 | yea i know about that, but we dont exactly know what level of stability it has, some says it slows down things and they experience delays at various places, for some its pretty fast. | 10:36 |
| n9user1 | but u can wait, and pr1.1 is pretty nice. And wont give you the operation failed msgs. | 10:37 |
| mikki-kun | i will wait for the official pr1.2 | 10:37 |
| n9user1 | yea | 10:37 |
| mikki-kun | it's smarter... who knows where the pr1.2 now available even came from | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it eats your modem | 10:38 |
| mikki-kun | hu? my poor modem :( | 10:38 |
| n9user1 | well its has everything that we know will be in pr1.2 :) | 10:38 |
| jaem | n9user1, If you're getting dpkg errors on a non-debian system, that's the first sign that your install is not going to succeed without hacks. :P | 10:38 |
| mikki-kun | good that i didn't use it | 10:38 |
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| n9user1 | modem, it does, but only if you go 1.2, than come back to 1.1 | 10:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 10:38 |
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| pupnik | it is not right to leak your company's stuff | 10:38 |
| jaem | n9user1, if you're able to run the SDK in a VM, or on a Debian/*buntu box, that would be your best bet | 10:38 |
| n9user1 | yes, jaem, but what are those hacks :) | 10:39 |
| Scelt | well, maybe Nokia should release the PR1.2 someday before christmas so people won't get anxious to update to leaked and unofficial version | 10:39 |
| mikki-kun | nokia really takes his time tbh | 10:39 |
| jaem | n9user1, Well, you might get away with a chroot, but the only sane way to do that from scratch is to get debootstrap installed, and on Fedora... I don't know | 10:39 |
| jaem | You could do it, but there probably isn't a package. | 10:39 |
| Scelt | don't understand why they publisheed the SDK so long ago | 10:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's such an epic fail we don't even want to hear about it here in this channel :-P | 10:40 |
| pupnik | in the case of maemo it might be good for them to have a -devel or -testing repo for the internal updates as well | 10:40 |
| jaem | Arch has it, because it's Arch, but normally Debian stuff is hard to find packaged for other distros | 10:40 |
| pupnik | let us geeks help find bugs | 10:40 |
| mikki-kun | i am more of the "when something is available it should be released, even if there could be some bugs. but just give a goddamn warning out that it may hurt your system" | 10:40 |
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| jaem | n9user1, look up debootstrap chroot if you're interested in trying. It's not ideal, but it might work | 10:40 |
| jaem | mikki-kun, yes, but that unfortunately doesn't fly in this sort of case. | 10:40 |
| pupnik | mikki-kun: yeah - make it require some command-line typing. keep the pointy-clicky-crowd away | 10:41 |
| jaem | Disclaimers or no, all it takes is a few whiners on the forums, and the tech press rips you apart. | 10:41 |
| pupnik | sigh. | 10:41 |
| n9user1 | jaem, i think if some developer who has python knowledge and knows linux's installer stuff, maybe be able to tweak that m5 installation py file | 10:41 |
| pupnik | the tech-press is full of idiots | 10:41 |
| mikki-kun | jaem: well, depends how it's presented and if the warning comes trice | 10:41 |
| pupnik | jaem is right | 10:42 |
| jaem | pupnik, yes, I agree, but they still have some clout in that people read their idiocy, and enough believe them to make a difference | 10:42 |
| n9user1 | found this | 10:42 |
| n9user1 | http://www.alphatek.info/2010/02/13/install-the-nokia-n900-maemo-5-sdk-on-fedora/ | 10:42 |
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| jaem | mikki-kun, I fully agree with you in the principle of it, but as I said, it doesn't work so well for large corporations in reality | 10:42 |
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| mikki-kun | hm.. but what about gentoo then e.g.? i mean, gentoo can't even be installed without command line (at least not maintained) and thatis definitly not "point-n-click" friendly... i'd say if the users want to really control their system they have to read books otherwise they just scratch the surface and that isn't what "customizing" is about imo | 10:44 |
| jaem | Exactly. | 10:45 |
| jaem | But Gentoo isn't being sold to the general public on phones. | 10:45 |
| mikki-kun | i bought a goddamn linux-device and not something "iphone'isch" | 10:45 |
| jaem | If it was, then it would either die, or quickly become something very different. | 10:45 |
| jaem | mikki-kun, yeah, and they aren't hiding all of that from you, but QA/RTFM issues aren't the same thing at all. | 10:45 |
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| mikki-kun | i was thinking in maybe buying myself in the future another n900 and try building gentoo on it | 10:45 |
| dotblank | Whats the best performing video codec for the n900? | 10:46 |
| jaem | mikki-kun, it's been done on the N810 | 10:46 |
| dotblank | I heard some divx/xvid plays slowly | 10:46 |
| dotblank | mp4? h264? | 10:46 |
| viliny__ | divx xvid played fine on my n95 and runs great on the n900 | 10:46 |
| dotblank | but I also want max quality... | 10:47 |
| pupnik | the answer is 42 | 10:47 |
| n9user1 | i think this may be the solution http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/SDK | 10:47 |
| dotblank | Almost raw... but I want it to perform smoothly | 10:47 |
| mikki-kun | jaem: gentoo was successfully ported to the n810? whoah, gotta see that then :) | 10:47 |
| dotblank | Like If I wanted High-bitrate but low CPU that works on the n900 | 10:47 |
| jaem | mikki-kun, for some value of "successfully" :P Google it - it was quite a while back. | 10:48 |
| viliny__ | dotblank: max quality on the n900 screen? | 10:48 |
| dotblank | yes | 10:48 |
| mikki-kun | will do when i try porting gentoo to the wonderful n900 ^^ | 10:48 |
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| jaem | mikki-kun, meh, scrap Gentoo - get Plan9 working on it :) | 10:49 |
| tybollt_ | jaem: Does it works with The Windews 7?!111 | 10:49 |
| achipa | dotblank: those are diametrally opposed - higer-bitrate = higher CPU usage. Stick with hardware accelerated profiles and you will be OK | 10:49 |
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| viliny__ | dotblank: what does that even mean? You take a high quality but obviously a little less resolution video file and play it... in most cases it will look perfect because of the physical size of the screen. Even TV-out has such shitty quality that any divx compression pales there | 10:49 |
| mikki-kun | well, first gentoo, then after some years i'll make my own linux via LFS ^^ | 10:50 |
| viliny__ | i don't get the max quality part | 10:50 |
| jaem | tybollt_, Plan9 works great with Windows 7 - it formats it beautifully, and works without issue! | 10:50 |
| jaem | -snerk- | 10:50 |
| dotblank | achipa, not necessarily it can be high bitrate low cpu at the cost of space | 10:50 |
| dotblank | its the compressin that costs cpu | 10:51 |
| achipa | dotblank: you can't cross-compare across different codecs | 10:51 |
| dotblank | Um... | 10:51 |
| jaem | "Error: An unknown error has occurred" Woo! The best kind of error! | 10:51 |
| dotblank | what im asking what are the most optimized video codecs for the n900 | 10:51 |
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| mikki-kun | jaem: take a look at /var/log/messages ;) ^^ | 10:51 |
| dotblank | like If I play h.264 the decoder might be buggy or slow | 10:52 |
| achipa | dotblank: those that are HW accelerated | 10:52 |
| jaem | mikki-kun, naw, this was from makepkg - not something that gets logged | 10:52 |
| dotblank | achipa, on the n900.. Is it hardware accelerated.. if so then that would be much more ideal | 10:52 |
| achipa | dotblank: the problem is that h264 has several profiles. If you try one that IS supported, cool. If not, it will suck. | 10:52 |
| dotblank | achipa, ah.. Which profiles? | 10:53 |
| achipa | so 'h264' alone means little | 10:53 |
| mikki-kun | hm.. well, logging everything would also be a lil cpu and io heavy ^^ | 10:53 |
| achipa | i think there is a thread on tmo where people experimented with this... | 10:53 |
| achipa | in any case, baseline h264 with <=800x480 resolution should work | 10:55 |
| jaem | mikki-kun, was that directed at me? | 10:55 |
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| mikki-kun | jaem: yeah | 10:56 |
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| mikki-kun | hm... slowly my n900 will reach again it's former strength and goes even beyond that ^^ | 10:57 |
| mikki-kun | *currently reinstalling every packet* | 10:57 |
| mikki-kun | made a blank install | 10:58 |
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| achipa | dotblank: btw the 'demo' video that comes with the N900 is over 3000kbps (mp4), so bitrate is not really an issue if the format is okay for the DSP. | 10:59 |
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| dotblank | achipa, Thanks for your input | 10:59 |
| mikki-kun | jaem: just one thing... why is there then extras-devel available for the everyday user? i mean, some of the apps there are a lil "untouchy" | 11:00 |
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| jaem | mikki-kun, because hiding or restricting access to it would be entirely against the spirit of the project. | 11:02 |
| mikki-kun | but just a lil contradicting with hiding pr1.2 ;) | 11:02 |
| mikki-kun | my thinking at least | 11:02 |
| jaem | Yes, it causes issues, but since everyone adds disclaimers to anything they say about -devel, and Nokia never says anything about it at all, and it's not added/enabled by default, Nokia doesn't take the fall if people are stupid. | 11:02 |
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| jaem | mikki-kun, I wish the update was developed in the Open too, but they are different issues. | 11:03 |
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| jaem | Nokia making an official release with a "yeah, we know there are bugs - deal with them", is a heck of a lot different than allowing users easy access to third-party unstable software. | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mikki-kun: there is no -devel available for everyday user | 11:03 |
| jaem | Especially since the latter is merely a consequence of the system design, and not a purposeful action. | 11:04 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer51: i found the "how to add it" in less than 60 secs after powering up my browser | 11:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you need to add the catalog by yourself | 11:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so what?? | 11:04 |
| jaem | anyhow, hold that though - I'll be right back after I restart the session and see how much I broke things ;) | 11:04 |
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| frals | GAH WHY THE FUCK DOES THE /downloads/ PAGE RESET JEAOfgiwjhuiseh | 11:05 |
| mikki-kun | Ö.ö | 11:05 |
| frals | whats the point of being able to edit if its reset whenever the package importer is run | 11:05 |
| pupnik | jaem continues to be right | 11:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mikki-kun: if you found the wiki page about extras-devel, then I assue you were able to readc the fat old warning there | 11:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | assume* and Bold | 11:07 |
| mikki-kun | which warning? :D somehow they always blank out in my brain ^^ | 11:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so STFU | 11:07 |
| mikki-kun | naw, just kidding... i know that devel can make my sys a lil problematic but i take the risk for bleeding-edge stuff | 11:08 |
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| * Jaffa is dead. | 11:11 | |
| Jaffa | Completely and utterly wiped out. | 11:11 |
| tybollt_ | Oh, what happened? | 11:11 |
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| * tybollt_ hands frals a big cup of CHILL THE FUCK OUT :) | 11:12 | |
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| jaem | well, if anyone ever woke up one morning and thought to themselves, "I wonder how well the Maemo Alpha theme would apply to Qt apps on a desktop machine?", fear not, for I have your answer! | 11:12 |
| achipa | ~raise Jaffa | 11:12 |
| * infobot raises Jaffa from the dead | 11:12 | |
| jaem | ..."Pretty badly" | 11:12 |
| jaem | :) | 11:12 |
| jaem | *sigh* Well, that was a waste of time. | 11:13 |
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| Jaffa | tybollt_: On day 9 of working week; working until 23:00 last night; and every night's been at least 20:00 the rest of the time. | 11:15 |
| Jaffa | tybollt_: And then getting up for work at 06:00 the next day. | 11:15 |
| tybollt_ | Jaffa: I hear you... | 11:16 |
| * tybollt_ been through those weeks | 11:16 | |
| tybollt_ | spiced w/ on call callouts in the mid night | 11:16 |
| achipa | we here call that 'workwalking' (not sure how that translates to English... as in from moonwalking) | 11:16 |
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| ccooke | Morning, all | 11:23 |
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| PhonicUK | hey all | 11:36 |
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| RST38h | PR1.2 for Christmas 2010! | 11:36 |
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| * RST38h hides | 11:37 | |
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| zaheerm | RST38h, you're very optimistic ;) | 11:37 |
| RST38h | Ok. PR1.2 for Christmas 2011! | 11:37 |
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| summel | http://summel.de/wavemobile.png :) | 11:43 |
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| tybollt_ | ja richtig - est intresiert NIEMAND | 11:44 |
| tybollt_ | ;-P | 11:44 |
| summel | :O | 11:45 |
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| mintux | my gprs connection doesn't list on my phone | 11:46 |
| pupnik | i can't click on anything in that url summel :( | 11:47 |
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| summel | pupnik: its just a screenshot :o | 11:48 |
| * pupnik laughs | 11:48 | |
| pupnik | was someone making a google lattitude plugin for n900 btw? | 11:48 |
| summel | the latitude webapp works afaik | 11:48 |
| summel | havent tried it yet though | 11:48 |
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| summel | http://xkcd.com/742/# lol | 11:49 |
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| mintux | where is gprs connection? | 11:49 |
| mintux | setting | 11:49 |
| aquatix | summel: great alt text too ;) | 11:50 |
| summel | yes :D | 11:50 |
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| mintux | apn doesn't show in list of my connections .how can I ensure grps is active? | 11:53 |
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| * jhh123 new maemo user here ;p | 11:56 | |
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| hatake_kakashi | mintux, I'm presuming there's no APN setup for it, check under settings | 11:57 |
| wutr | jhh123: new too! just got my phone today | 11:58 |
| wutr | charging right now to flash it later on | 11:58 |
| summel | wutr: why flash it? oO | 11:58 |
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| wutr | firmware | 11:59 |
| summel | it comes preinstalled oO | 11:59 |
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| wutr | I know, but it's a second hand device from someone who kinda screwed it over | 11:59 |
| summel | ew | 11:59 |
| wutr | but no worries, if I flash it + emmc it's brand new again ;) | 12:00 |
| wutr | at least, I hope | 12:00 |
| summel | mmc? | 12:00 |
| summel | *emmc | 12:00 |
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| wutr | yes? | 12:00 |
| summel | whats emmc? | 12:00 |
| wutr | learned that myself yesterday: embedded MMC | 12:00 |
| wutr | it's where the device stores your data | 12:01 |
| summel | ah | 12:01 |
| hatake_kakashi | pretty much that big 32GB | 12:01 |
| wutr | home directory etc. sits in there | 12:01 |
| wutr | exactly | 12:01 |
| wutr | wow I'm making myself useful :D | 12:01 |
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| wutr | allright, rebooting now for "unsigned driver support" @ 7 64bit | 12:02 |
| summel | oO | 12:03 |
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| jhh123 | wow, wutr was quick at messing around. | 12:12 |
| mece | aaaaahahaha this one made me lol: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=663866&postcount=15 | 12:15 |
| viliny__ | This isn't a OC questions per-se so don't lynch me please ---> Anyone else notice the calibration tool to terminate abruptly after pressing first calibration point with the titan kernel? I can't think of anything else that has changed since i last ran it successfully. | 12:18 |
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| pupnik | titan kernel does not work with calibration. | 12:19 |
| RST38h | Answer: Do not use Titan kernel | 12:19 |
| RST38h | Use the kernel your N900 has come with. | 12:19 |
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| pupnik | yes, only way to calibrate is boot to stock kernel, calibrate, then if you want, go back to the titan kernel | 12:20 |
| wutr | how long for flasher to wait before a "suitable usb device" is found on windows 7 64bit? | 12:21 |
| wutr | (n900 is in flashing mode with the usb symbol showing) | 12:21 |
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| pupnik | http://kuvaton.com/browse/14788/loan.jpg <<<< :) sfw | 12:25 |
| mece | pupnik, heee | 12:25 |
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| frals | X-Fade: word on the street is you are working on something so maintainers can change package description through the packages interface, if you need a beta tester let me know ;) | 12:30 |
| X-Fade | frals: That is in the works yes, needs some changes to the importer though. | 12:30 |
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| pupnik | it would be good if users could see what has changed in a new version | 12:31 |
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| wutr | has anyone here flashed a N900 with win7, 64bit? | 12:34 |
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| plastun | hello! Can anybody help me with PannableArea and TextView? | 12:38 |
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| pupnik | go ahead and ask your question plastun | 12:41 |
| plastun | ok. When I trying to put TextView to PannableARea using add_with_viewport function, I just see top corner of TextView and no more | 12:42 |
| plastun | I want create About dialog like System->About product dialog | 12:42 |
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| frals | theres a requestSize or something similar on pannablearea | 12:43 |
| frals | if you set it to children_max or soemthing similar it should do the trick | 12:44 |
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| frals | cant remember exact names, but it should be in api docs | 12:44 |
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| pupnik | SIZE_REQUEST_MINIMUM The minimum size the widget could use to paint itself ? | 12:44 |
| pupnik | hildon.SizeRequestPolicy | 12:44 |
| pupnik | http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/python_hildon_manual/hildonobjects.html | 12:44 |
| frals | SIZE_REQUEST_CHILDREN | 12:44 |
| pupnik | ah | 12:44 |
| plastun | ok, I'll try. thanks | 12:45 |
| frals | tis what i used at least :) | 12:45 |
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| plastun | haha! works!!! | 12:48 |
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| dneary | amigadave, Ping? | 12:58 |
| amigadave | dneary: pong | 12:58 |
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| wutr | Can I use any usb > microUSB cable to connect with my N900 btw? | 12:58 |
| dneary | amigadave, Have a read of this: http://communitymgt.wikia.com/wiki/Help_Vampire | 12:58 |
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| amigadave | dneary: i agree :) | 12:59 |
| dneary | And this: http://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/ | 12:59 |
| * murrayc_ is tempted to ask what a help vampire is. | 12:59 | |
| dneary | We need to be teaching Pallavi to help himself :) | 12:59 |
| dneary | murrayc_, A person who's first reaction on seeing any kind of error is to ask "why am I getting this?" on a mailing list | 12:59 |
| amigadave | i guess next time i will provide more links | 12:59 |
| amigadave | MOAR! | 13:00 |
| amigadave | ahem | 13:00 |
| ruskie | hmm a hilight | 13:00 |
| murrayc_ | dneary: I was joking. I am capable of clicking the links. | 13:00 |
| dneary | murrayc_, Oh how droll. | 13:00 |
| dneary | murrayc_, You should take up comedy. Everyone would go | 13:00 |
| dneary | But only once, they'd all die laughing. | 13:00 |
| dneary | Way to go, killing off your audience | 13:00 |
| murrayc_ | They would all chuckle knowingly and smugly. | 13:01 |
| murrayc_ | Then there would be some jazz. | 13:01 |
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| dneary | murrayc_, Nothing too accessible mind - you wouldn't want the dirty masses coming in | 13:02 |
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| TomaszD | good news for PR1.2 "waiters" https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9150#c27 | 13:09 |
| povbot | Bug 9150: Device doesn't respond via UI. syslog reports HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered, sgx_misr eating all CPU | 13:09 |
| TomaszD | ;) | 13:09 |
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| Wolfie | but that might be just another "it really should come now", which we have heard about for a good while now | 13:10 |
| mikki-kun | boah, goddamit, i freaking hate the file-explorer which comes with the n900 -.- *waiting for the nautilus-port* | 13:10 |
| TomaszD | Wolfie, yeah but this is a fresh "it really should come now" | 13:11 |
| TomaszD | ;) | 13:11 |
| `0660 | "It should really come soon now (within weeks, not month(s)), it's been | 13:11 |
| `0660 | post-poned too much already. | 13:11 |
| `0660 | " | 13:11 |
| TomaszD | this subtly suggest 2-3 weeks | 13:12 |
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| TomaszD | *suggests | 13:12 |
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| `0660 | i though that has been the estimate for a couple of months now :) | 13:12 |
| achipa | 2 weeks is the PR1.2 pandora clock offset | 13:12 |
| TomaszD | yeah, but *this* time it's true | 13:12 |
| Stskeeps | "we have sent PR1.2 code in a binary stream to the past. Please be at the execution of some random guy around year 33 to receive it" | 13:12 |
| TomaszD | ;) | 13:12 |
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| Trewas | if it's not released before mid of june, then it will have to wait until august anyway as entirety of finland is on vacation after midsummer :) | 13:13 |
| `0660 | good point | 13:13 |
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| achipa | yeah, well, I got a handful of "just around the corner"s from Nokia people yesterday on the NMDF | 13:14 |
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| * achipa wonders if he should have asked for that particular corner to be shown to him | 13:14 | |
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| frals | NMDF? | 13:21 |
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| MohammadAG | USB F-F adapter arrived \o/ | 13:24 |
| Corsac | ayanes: it's “around the corner” by “really informed people” since way too much time to give any more credit | 13:24 |
| Corsac | it'll be released when it's released, no time indication is trustable now | 13:24 |
| ayanes | ? | 13:25 |
| ayanes | Corsac what are you talking about ? | 13:25 |
| Corsac | ayanes: I just mis-tabbed achipa :) | 13:26 |
| ayanes | Oki ;) | 13:26 |
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| achipa | Corsac: that what I was referring to in my second 'wondering' line, I might have been too subtle :) | 13:29 |
| Corsac | yeah, well, I just didn't read it :) | 13:30 |
| achipa | Corsac: on a side note Nokia already broke their own global roadmap timeline with it, so... | 13:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: f-f. Hawt. | 13:34 |
| SpeedEvil | (if you enable PSUs on both sides) | 13:34 |
| murrayc_ | I really don't care. But the karma #1 is amusing right now: http://maemo.org/profile/list/ | 13:35 |
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| murrayc_ | Due to thousands of ltt thanks. | 13:36 |
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| murrayc_ | Probably automated. | 13:36 |
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| achipa | Thanked 1,936 Times in 1,161 Posts ? | 13:38 |
| adeus | what is that | 13:38 |
| achipa | hell, I have more than that :) | 13:38 |
| SpeedEvil | umm | 13:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | Isn't there a sqrt() in there somewhere? | 13:38 |
| SpeedEvil | That looks more like a bug | 13:39 |
| lcuk | murrayc_, do you know why? | 13:39 |
| lcuk | if not, explanation here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=661033#post661033 | 13:39 |
| murrayc_ | Oh, I thought it was him thanking other people. YOu mean he's _been_ thanked that many times? Wow | 13:41 |
| X-Fade | I guess there was a glitch in the calculation, as ot is ok now. | 13:42 |
| X-Fade | *it | 13:42 |
| murrayc_ | oh yeah | 13:42 |
| murrayc_ | 500000 or so did seem unlikely. | 13:43 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, you mean the could of extra thanks rolled round the longint back into positive values ;) | 13:43 |
| lcuk | the couple | 13:43 |
| murrayc_ | Unthanked to <0? | 13:43 |
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| lcuk | murrayc_, yeah that looks like the bug, somehow the thanks calculation was thrown off | 13:49 |
| lcuk | its the only real time you see 4,294 million ;) | 13:49 |
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| MohammadAG | umm, suggestion for tmo | 13:55 |
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| tybollt_ | yes? | 13:55 |
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| MohammadAG | chinese forum :p | 13:57 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: I have a better suggestion | 14:02 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Let us autotranslate every "N900 sucks" thread into Chinese, then delete English original | 14:03 |
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| tybollt_ | RST38h: silly - lots of people know chinese these days... go for Thai... noone outside Thailand understands/speaks/writes thai ;P | 14:04 |
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| RST38h | tybollt: Judging from some "N900 sucks" posts, I have doubts the posters even know English | 14:05 |
| RST38h | (and no, I do not mean ESL people) | 14:05 |
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| tybollt_ | RST38h: :-D | 14:06 |
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| Stskeeps | heh, i just took my n900 of a serial jig and the yellow led is still on (usb cable connected) | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: do you happen to have the pinout of this? Does it have all of the gold pads connected? | 14:16 |
| Stskeeps | nfi, it's a box | 14:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - how many probes does it have that stick onto the board | 14:17 |
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| viliny__ | pupnik: okay that answered my question about calibration pretty well - anyone know _why_ it doesn't work though? | 14:19 |
| viliny__ | Out of morbid curiosity | 14:19 |
| pupnik | it is in some t.m.o thread - i am guessing the kernel module for screen calibration isnt opensourced | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | entire kernel plus modules is oss | 14:20 |
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| viliny__ | oss? | 14:23 |
| Termana | Plus, theres no kernel module that participates in the calibration. Theres the touchscreen driver, but calibration isn't in it - its in userspace | 14:23 |
| Termana | viliny__, open source software | 14:23 |
| viliny__ | Termana: thanks, thought that but got 1 s to maany | 14:23 |
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| viliny__ | hmm, so wonder what the problem is again | 14:26 |
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| Arkenoi | is titan's 32 kernel considered stable? | 14:34 |
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| hrw | Arkenoi: I removed his kernels yesterday | 14:40 |
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| hrw | as one of latest ones killed sound | 14:40 |
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| Arkenoi | 27 was rock solid | 14:41 |
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| hrw | I would rather go for own kernels instead | 14:42 |
| MohammadAG | the 28 non-bme one killed my N900 | 14:43 |
| MohammadAG | had to reflash the stock kernel | 14:43 |
| Stskeeps | .. non-bme? | 14:43 |
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| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=659716&postcount=868 | 14:45 |
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| MohammadAG | bad wording | 14:45 |
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| MohammadAG | is there any way to unpack a zImage | 14:52 |
| mgedmin | unpack in what sense? | 14:53 |
| mgedmin | are you sure you don't mean "unpack initrd.img"? | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG: run the uncompression code in the start of it ;p | 14:55 |
| MohammadAG | mgedmin, no, as in decompile it | 14:56 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, lolwut | 14:56 |
| Stskeeps | wikipedia: Traditionally, when creating a bootable kernel image, the kernel is also compressed using the zlib algorithm, or since Linux 2.6.30[1], using LZMA or BZIP2, which requires a very small decompression stub to be included in the resulting image. The stub decompresses the kernel code, on some systems printing dots to the console to indicate progress, and then continues the boot process. | 14:57 |
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| Tuukka | Just got a new dataplan. Ack, 3g surfing is eating my battery alive | 15:00 |
| andemoni | in qt, if i've got a top-level QScrollArea that contains a somewhat complex layout and then a QTextBrowser inside of it, what is the correct way to make the text browser report its document's full size to the layout? | 15:02 |
| SpeedEvil | What are the prerequisites for getting video out on. I plugged in the composite out cable, and ... ? | 15:02 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, it should just work | 15:03 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm - maybe it requires a load - I was trying to hook up a scope | 15:03 |
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| tybollt_ | SpeedEvil: ? just w/ the normal cable, nothing fancy like over usb? | 15:04 |
| tybollt_ | SpeedEvil: then just _plug it in_ | 15:04 |
| tybollt_ | what I did | 15:04 |
| tybollt_ | wfm | 15:04 |
| tybollt_ | \o_ | 15:04 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - I did that - no video out on any pins | 15:04 |
| tybollt_ | huh? | 15:04 |
| SpeedEvil | on any connector | 15:04 |
| SpeedEvil | I need to find my SCART->phono adaptor - it's been a while | 15:05 |
| tybollt_ | hrrm | 15:05 |
| tybollt_ | that sounds awfully much like either of cable or plug is KAPUT | 15:05 |
| tybollt_ | sorry :-/ | 15:05 |
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| mintux | I have media mount in /media but in file manager I don't have access to it . what should I do ? | 15:16 |
| Surfa | add yourself to correct group? | 15:16 |
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| mintux | I should do that with command line ? | 15:17 |
| mintux | no I do nothing | 15:18 |
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| ManoftheSea | doesn't file manager only look in MyDocs? | 15:19 |
| MohammadAG | MyDocs and /media/mmc1 | 15:19 |
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| mintux | MohammadAG: yes I have both of them but in file manger just a icon nokia n900 and the contents of it /home/user/MyDocs | 15:21 |
| odin_ | mintux, what kind of media is it ? MMC card ? so /media/mmc1 is the mount point ? | 15:21 |
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| Shapeshifter | So, is there no way of having a scrollable widget on the desktop? | 15:21 |
| mintux | just /media/mmc1 | 15:21 |
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| Shapeshifter | I don't understand that design decision at all. horizontal sliding changes desktops, why not allow vertical scrolling... | 15:22 |
| mintux | that show a icon when open filemanger called nokia n900 and the contents of that is /home/user/MyDocs | 15:22 |
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| mintux | odin_: ^ | 15:22 |
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| E0x | morning | 15:22 |
| odin_ | Shapeshifter, you can vertically slide within your widget, but not the desktops | 15:22 |
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| E0x | some python ppl here ? | 15:23 |
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| odin_ | mintux, I have 2 icons "Nokia N900" which is /home/user/MyDocs and "Memory card" which is /media/mmc1 | 15:24 |
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| mintux | I don't have memory card | 15:24 |
| mintux | there | 15:24 |
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| odin_ | well there you go then! | 15:24 |
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| Shapeshifter | odin_: it is possible? oh :O | 15:25 |
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| mintux | what shall I do? | 15:25 |
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| Shapeshifter | odin_: any widgets that use this? | 15:25 |
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| odin_ | Shapeshifter, the RSS viewer has buttons to scroll page up and down, Ive not seen anything with "scroll bars" which is what I think you mean, but I cant see why you cant have them | 15:25 |
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| odin_ | mintux, how did you mount your memory card, maybe if you start at the beggining and explain how you "customized your own N900 to mount a media not at the default location /media/mmc1" | 15:26 |
| Shapeshifter | odin_: nah I mean a vertical kinetic scrolling | 15:26 |
| odin_ | Shapeshifter, kinetic scrolling only works for full page stuff, it is not something that works for a sub-window or sub-part of a page | 15:27 |
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| mintux | odin_: it mounted . I didn't nothing for mount . I have access with shell | 15:27 |
| odin_ | Shapeshifter, i.e. it only works like that since it would be bad design otherwise! | 15:27 |
| Stskeeps | /g w00t | 15:27 |
| Shapeshifter | odin_: what do you mean by that? all the dialogs have it. any scrollable area has it, except the pdf viewer basically | 15:27 |
| Stskeeps | er | 15:27 |
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| odin_ | mintux, so where is the mount point ? and did it mount it with the options "uid=29999" so the default user owns all the files | 15:27 |
| w00t_ | /smack Stskeeps | 15:28 |
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| mintux | w8 check it | 15:28 |
| Stskeeps | /molest w00t_ | 15:28 |
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| odin_ | Shapeshifter, what dialogs ? oh you mean the _FULL_PAGE_ modal dialogs yeah sure they do, but remember the full page part of my info above | 15:28 |
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| Shapeshifter | odin_: and why would it be a bad design? | 15:29 |
| odin_ | mintux, you can type "mount -v" to see options or "cat /proc/mounts" | 15:29 |
| AEnima1577g | thopiekar, you around? | 15:29 |
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| odin_ | Shapeshifter, well who wants part of the screen to be "kinnnetically scrolling" and how do I change focus as to what kinnetically scrolls, when I want another part/window to scroll instead, there is just no UI precedent for it | 15:29 |
| odin_ | Shapeshifter, which is why I say its a facet of gesture driven UI for full-screen UI compomenets, be it a browser or a full-page modal dialog or a full page something else | 15:30 |
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| Shapeshifter | odin_: mh? do you know the mpc client for example? mmpc | 15:31 |
| odin_ | Shapeshifter, no I don't think I do | 15:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | odin_: scroll buttons are a sane precedent | 15:31 |
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| mintux | odin_: it's output of cat /proc... http://codepad.org/tW0LG5EX also I didn't see any device mount in /media/mcc1 in fstab | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: up/down on the keyboard wil scroll the currently selected window element in most cases. | 15:32 |
| odin_ | Shapeshifter, Im sure its "progrmatically possible" but does it work well within the context of use ? you are claiming that you want kinetic scrolling for one widgets on the main desktop, I'm not sure I agree thats a good idea, but happy to have a try if someone implements it | 15:32 |
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| Shapeshifter | odin_: mh. well, anyway, why shouldn't any scrollable area have kinetic scrolling? as in, imagine some buttons on the left, and a list widget on the right. why shouldn't it be possible to scroll the list widget? | 15:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | The desktop is also conceptually different to other things. | 15:32 |
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| Shapeshifter | odin_: well imo it would make perfect sense. just imagine the rss widget not have these buttons but instead a scrollable area. up/down gesture inside the widget scrolls it, left/right widget inside or outside the widget changes desktops. | 15:33 |
| odin_ | Shapeshifter, because its the desktop/home screen and it already has a superceeding kinetic action, the switch desktop function, if your widget hijacks it, how does the user flips nicely between the two (intuitively?) | 15:33 |
| Shapeshifter | odin_: up/down, left/right | 15:33 |
| odin_ | mintux, your /media/mmc1 is not mounted, so there is your problem, what filesystem is the card? is it formatted? | 15:34 |
| Shapeshifter | odin_: up/down isn't needed on the desktop at all as the desktops are ligned up horizontally | 15:34 |
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| odin_ | Shapeshifter, up/down/left/right what ? huh... left/right is taken | 15:34 |
| Shapeshifter | so why not use it for widget interaction | 15:34 |
| mintux | odin_:no I didn't touch it | 15:34 |
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| Shapeshifter | odin_: left/right finger swiping. yes. it's taken to change desktops. but up/down swiping is wasted. | 15:34 |
| odin_ | Shapeshifter, what happens when my home screen has 3 of these widgets on it, how do I flip focus and then unfocus to get desktop focus to flip desktops, these are all UI issues | 15:35 |
| mintux | odin_: how can I find out system file of that ? | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: widgets scroll vertically only | 15:35 |
| odin_ | mintux, have you rebooted the phone to see if it comes back ? can you manually mount it ? "mount /media/mmc1" | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: Or you have to pick an area of the desktop without a widget - like you do already in some menus to scroll tehm | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | mintux: You do have the back cover on? | 15:35 |
| Shapeshifter | odin_: you don't need to "switch" focus at all. if you swipe vertically, the desktop ignores this (i.e. the event gets passed down to the widget), if you swipe horizontally, the event gets consumed by the desktop for changing desktops. | 15:36 |
| odin_ | mintux, you do have an extra MMC card installed yet ? you opened the back, too the battery out and installed a supplemental MMC card right ? what size? | 15:36 |
| Shapeshifter | odin_: I mean, just go to your n900 desktop right now, and swipe the finger up and down. what happens? Nothing. - well, it wobbles a bit to the left and right maybe but you see that this gesture is wasted. | 15:36 |
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| mintux | odin_: no I didn't input any card. im talking about 32 GB | 15:37 |
| mintux | I have access with terminal in /media/mmc1 | 15:37 |
| mintux | and I can create file on it | 15:37 |
| odin_ | Shapeshifter, I still fail to see how it can be used well with a widget, sure I can understand having 9 desktops with more on up/down (if the user wants that) but not having it relate to something else, as in left/right = desktop, up/down = widget (this is not intuative, if you ask me) | 15:37 |
| mintux | no it said premssion denied when I want to mkdir on it | 15:38 |
| mintux | but with shell only | 15:38 |
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| mintux | I can write on it | 15:38 |
| ManoftheSea | why isn't it intuitive? | 15:38 |
| odin_ | mintux, LOLs! the EMMC the 32Gb is /home/user/MyDocs and that is the icon "Nokia N900" | 15:38 |
| ManoftheSea | If I had an RSS reader, I'd want to scroll up and down to see additional items | 15:38 |
| Shapeshifter | odin_: why on earth?? if you have an android mobile at hand, try the rss widget. same thing there. left/right changes desktops, up/down scrolls inside the rss widget. it's so obvious | 15:38 |
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| mintux | so why I can't see the contents of /media/mcc1 in filemanager? | 15:39 |
| ManoftheSea | If anything, the up/down at the bottom are nonintuitive | 15:39 |
| odin_ | mintux, your /proc/mount already has it mounted, type "df" to see the storage space and mount points (from shell), around 28Gb is /home/user/MyDocs since /home and swapspace also exist out of the 32Gb | 15:39 |
| ManoftheSea | up/down are next to each other. | 15:39 |
| Shapeshifter | odin_: totally intuitive if you ask me. and what about the 9 desktops? How is this related? I'm not talking about stacking desktops vertically (as in having a 3x3 desktop or something) but vertical scrolling *inside* widgets on the desktop. | 15:39 |
| ManoftheSea | mmc1 is the added card. | 15:39 |
| odin_ | mintux, because you don't have a /media/mmc1 (in order to have one of those, you need to buy and additionao MMC card and take the battery out and install it in the free/empty slot) for example my N900 has 32Gb+16Gb+256Mb of total storage | 15:40 |
| viliny__ | mintux, you are using /media/mmc1 and you don't have a physical card inserted into the phone? | 15:40 |
| mintux | hmm | 15:40 |
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| ManoftheSea | mmc0, maybe? | 15:40 |
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| mintux | viliny__: no just 32gb itself | 15:40 |
| ManoftheSea | odin_: the mmc slot isn't behind the battery | 15:41 |
| odin_ | no the EMMC the 32Gb you get by default is /dev/mmcblkXpX check "df" and "df -h" (if you want pretty numbers) | 15:41 |
| GAN900 | dneary, ping? | 15:41 |
| ManoftheSea | It's inside the back, but you don't have to turn off to get access | 15:41 |
| viliny__ | mintux: as far i understand it the /media/mmc1 is just a folder - when you mount a memory card then that becomes it's entry point | 15:41 |
| viliny__ | at other times i guess it's just the internal memory... | 15:41 |
| mintux | viliny__: so why it doesn't show in file manager? | 15:41 |
| ManoftheSea | that's silly | 15:42 |
| mintux | MyDocs | 15:42 |
| odin_ | ManoftheSea, maybe you right its been 6 months since I installed mine and might be confused with E72 | 15:42 |
| ManoftheSea | the SIM is behind the batt | 15:42 |
| ManoftheSea | File Manager doesn't access at / | 15:42 |
| viliny__ | mintux, are you asking why a card that you didn't not insert into the phone doesn't show up in the file manager? | 15:42 |
| ManoftheSea | it accesses at MyDocs | 15:42 |
| dneary | GAN900, Pong | 15:42 |
| viliny__ | didn't/did not | 15:42 |
| ManoftheSea | which is /home/user/MyDocs | 15:42 |
| odin_ | viliny__, yes, that appears to be what he is asking, lols! | 15:42 |
| dneary | GAN900, What can I do you for? | 15:42 |
| mintux | I just video clips or documents that is /home/user/MyDocs/.documents | 15:42 |
| viliny__ | mintux: where are you from? | 15:43 |
| odin_ | along the same lines, can someone tell me why PR1.3 features are not working on my N900? please help me !! no wait.... | 15:43 |
| MohammadAG | ~seen t-tan | 15:43 |
| ManoftheSea | mintux is cool and doesn't afraid of anything | 15:43 |
| infobot | t-tan <~tanner@e176238235.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 19h 7m ago, saying: 'has anybody already tried this http://metalab.at/wiki/Hack-A-N900/Dump_and_Restore_rootfs_Image ?'. | 15:43 |
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| hrw-laptop | odin_: still have problems with 1.3? | 15:44 |
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| mintux | I can't understand MyDocs is 32 Gb but when I put some file's on it I can see it in file manager | 15:44 |
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| Shapeshifter | Any clues what happened to qt4-maemo5-homescreen-example from -devel? | 15:44 |
| ManoftheSea | MyDocs isn't 32G | 15:44 |
| Shapeshifter | it's gone. | 15:44 |
| viliny__ | mintux: you can see what in file manager exactly? | 15:45 |
| ManoftheSea | /home is ~28Gigs | 15:45 |
| odin_ | mintux, the folder /home/user/MyDocs/.documents is where the USB Mass Storage mounts isn't it ? | 15:45 |
| ManoftheSea | and MyDocs is under it. | 15:45 |
| viliny__ | mintux: why are you messing around with stuff like that without understand the basics? | 15:45 |
| viliny__ | goddamnit, UNDERSTANDING - my spelling is atrocious today | 15:45 |
| odin_ | well strictly speaking /home is an EXT3 filesystem of around 2Gb, and /home/user/MyDocs is a 28.25Gb file system which is VFAT the remaining 768Mb is swap | 15:46 |
| mintux | odin_: viliny__: every thing is in filemanger are .<folder name> in /home/user/Mydocs | 15:46 |
| odin_ | this makes 32Gb as in 32GB not 32GiB | 15:46 |
| mintux | but when I get ls from /media/mcc1 nothing there | 15:46 |
| ManoftheSea | odin_: oh. Good to know in a pedantic sense | 15:46 |
| ManoftheSea | mintux: that's because there is NOTHING THERE | 15:47 |
| ManoftheSea | you said you haven't put in a mmc1 | 15:47 |
| odin_ | mintux, go to a shop and buy a 16Gb MMC card, then insert it inside the back covert, then try to use /media/mmc1 | 15:47 |
| viliny__ | mintux: /media/mcc1 is the mounting point for the memory card - you don't have a card hence it is in fact EMPTY | 15:47 |
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| ManoftheSea | hold on, someone help me a sec. is it mmc1 or mcc1? | 15:47 |
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| odin_ | dont do accidentally filling up /media/mmc1 since you will fill your root-fs and then you will be in trouble | 15:48 |
| odin_ | maybe linux should put a quota in place on that one! | 15:48 |
| viliny__ | oh heh, it uses rootfs... yeah don't fill that | 15:48 |
| viliny__ | thanks for the details of the filesystem structure odin_ , that made some stuff clearer to me | 15:49 |
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| ManoftheSea | well, that's just normal linux, right? | 15:49 |
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| ManoftheSea | It's a folder on the mount until something else mounts over it. | 15:50 |
| viliny__ | mintux: so basicly, mydocs IS NOT /media/mmc1 | 15:50 |
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| viliny__ | and if you're trolling then bravo | 15:50 |
| ManoftheSea | yeah, I had that thought too. | 15:50 |
| MohammadAG | umm, how do I use USB networking? | 15:50 |
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| dneary | GAN900, Ping? | 15:51 |
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| odin_ | ManoftheSea, its /media/mmc1 which is device file /dev/mmcblk1p1 | 15:51 |
| dneary | Not sure you've been getting my /msges | 15:51 |
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| MohammadAG | <mintux> but when I get ls from /media/mcc1 nothing there | 15:51 |
| MohammadAG | nvm | 15:51 |
| ManoftheSea | odin_: ok. We've been playing a little loose with the misspellings, and I wanted to confirm. | 15:52 |
| ManoftheSea | Thanks. | 15:52 |
| odin_ | MohammadAG, USB networking ? as in hook it upto a PC to be able to use the PC hosts internet ? | 15:52 |
| ManoftheSea | To be able to make IP connections on a network of two | 15:52 |
| odin_ | doesn't the whole Nokia PC Suite use PPP over USB ? then IP over that ? | 15:52 |
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| ManoftheSea | I thought it was PC Suite too | 15:53 |
| MohammadAG | odin_, no, SSH over USB | 15:53 |
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| odin_ | MohammadAG, SSH ? one stream or multiple (as in port forwarding/tunnelling) ? also why does USB need "security" ? | 15:54 |
| viliny__ | can the phone piggyback on host connection via usb? | 15:54 |
| Shapeshifter | I can't git clone on my n900. It doesn't download anything, here's the output: http://pastie.org/967514 The error is "git: 'index-pack' is not a git-command. See 'git --help'." Any clues? | 15:54 |
| MohammadAG | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking | 15:54 |
| ManoftheSea | ssh over usb? | 15:54 |
| ManoftheSea | That's ssh over ip over ppp over usb | 15:54 |
| mgedmin | why ppp? | 15:55 |
| odin_ | ok so there is still the PPP so any IP based services can be setup to work | 15:55 |
| odin_ | to multiplex I guess | 15:56 |
| odin_ | PPP is a good basis to achieve that | 15:56 |
| viliny__ | t | 15:56 |
| viliny__ | thanks a bunch MohammadAG | 15:56 |
| mgedmin | well, ppp is used for 3g connectivity, I suppose | 15:56 |
| mgedmin | but pure USB networking between host and N900 doesn't use it | 15:56 |
| odin_ | yes a single device can have multiple PPP links up, one over USB, one over 3G, one for IPSEC, etc... | 15:57 |
| ManoftheSea | alright, I thought it was PPP. | 15:57 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 15:57 |
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| ManoftheSea | Don't base anything on me, then. | 15:57 |
| MohammadAG | viliny__, I pasted that for odin_ | 15:57 |
| MohammadAG | np anyways :P | 15:57 |
| viliny__ | MohammadAG: and thanks regardless :) | 15:58 |
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| odin_ | which reminds me, now that MMS is stable to re look at the issues with multiple PPPs being up, at the moment the WLAN link has to come down when the 3G is up, this is uneccessary! | 15:58 |
| hrw-laptop | odin_: tell it to nokia | 15:59 |
| hrw-laptop | odin_: they will reply: will be fixed in harmattan and you will have same situation as you have | 15:59 |
| odin_ | and very undesirable for doing MMS, Linux fully supports "IP policy routing" which allows the MMS channel to have a lower priority routing and private network independently of the main default route for IP | 15:59 |
| ManoftheSea | same situation? | 15:59 |
| hrw-laptop | ManoftheSea: yes - software will be same | 16:00 |
| odin_ | however when it comes to WLAN + 3G at the same time, the user has to pick which is their default route, I think a global option should do the trick | 16:00 |
| ManoftheSea | default route? | 16:00 |
| odin_ | linux supports 2 default routes or 3 (WLAN/3G/USB) | 16:00 |
| odin_ | yes the default route is the network interface regarded by the system as being its link to the internet | 16:01 |
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| ManoftheSea | oh. I guess... why would you not want to use the WLAN as the default, assuming you've already chosen to connect ot it. | 16:01 |
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| odin_ | maybe WLAN doesn't have internet connectivity, but does have a printer ? | 16:01 |
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| ManoftheSea | hmm, yes, I begin to see the complexity | 16:02 |
| odin_ | or file server or business application service | 16:02 |
| hrw-laptop | or internal network | 16:02 |
| ManoftheSea | But similarly, if you have a VPN over your WLAN, the WLAN doesn't have inet but VPN does... | 16:02 |
| odin_ | it is not acctuallty "a complex problem" nor is the solution "complex" | 16:02 |
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| ManoftheSea | then your default route has to be over the tunnel | 16:02 |
| ManoftheSea | not terribly complex. But you're not going to try to explain to your grandma, are you? | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG | viliny__, if you get it to work do you mind helping out? :) | 16:03 |
| odin_ | just a couple of new global user settings and a patch to the internet daemon service and the necessary infrastrcture changes ( to the routing setup/teardown scripting) | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG | I can't seem to be able to ssh | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG | and ifup fails | 16:03 |
| odin_ | yes I can make it simple and that is the key | 16:03 |
| viliny__ | MohammadAG: i don't think i'm going to tackle this right now - at work at the moment :) | 16:04 |
| odin_ | make MMC and standard (non-routable) PC Suite have lower priority route (so they always work independalty of anything else) | 16:04 |
| MohammadAG | oh ok :) | 16:04 |
| odin_ | then you are left with 3 choices of default route selection: WLAN/3G/PC-Suite(USB) you just set a priority order as to which you want | 16:05 |
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| ManoftheSea | hmm. I see it, that seems reasonable. | 16:05 |
| odin_ | then you make everything work independently of everything else around all that, as I say the only contention is the "default route" selection | 16:05 |
| ManoftheSea | Then if you do the VPN, you rely on the VPN scripts. | 16:05 |
| odin_ | opps.. I said "MMC" I meant "MMS" because MMS and WAP over GPRS/3G is a special case of a "walled garden" which usually doesn't have or need a default route to work | 16:06 |
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| odin_ | well VPN is another matter altogether, bus you just make them select whichever default route exists and it setup in global preferences, make sure they also don't interfere with the "system" networking (except though defined interfaces/methods) | 16:07 |
| Stskeeps | morn javispedro | 16:07 |
| javispedro | morning | 16:07 |
| plastun | is it possible to show html-content in hildon.TextView widget? | 16:07 |
| ManoftheSea | yeah, I don't see a reason you'd want to VPN default routes. | 16:08 |
| ManoftheSea | Usually, you VPN in, rather than out. | 16:08 |
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| odin_ | well I am happy that kernel 20100903 is building how long did they fix that fraico-gen dependancy ? | 16:08 |
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| javispedro | fiascooooooo | 16:08 |
| javispedro | and you could build the kernel fine previously, | 16:09 |
| hrw-laptop | unless you wlan to corp internal network which has router with vpn server and out-of-corp link is only for vpn users | 16:09 |
| javispedro | only you couldn't create the on-device flashing package | 16:09 |
| odin_ | yeah with work arounds / kludges but it was one of them things, "Hey Nokia, do your job!" | 16:09 |
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| satmd | call me stupid... but how can I reset the missed calls counter? | 16:09 |
| hrw-laptop | ManoftheSea: what do you think about such combo? | 16:09 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: btw, how do you think mbxdaemon gets access to dispc registers? it only mmaps stuff from /dev/mbxaccess | 16:10 |
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| odin_ | ManoftheSea, I would think for a mobile device you are the Road Warrior end, connecting back to base, so you definitely need a working default route (but VPN software should be calling on other services like internet-connection-daemon to provide it) | 16:10 |
| javispedro | (also, I couldn't break into Flip :( mbxdaemon doesn't like being interrupted) | 16:11 |
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| ManoftheSea | I missed some of that. | 16:11 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: mmapping them in, it says pretty directly in the functions it has | 16:12 |
| ManoftheSea | hrw-laptop: yeah, I could imagine a case for VPN to get out. But you probably aren't on 3G at the same time, and can add the default route as part of the VPN scripts | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | there's on called "mmapfbregs" | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | or something | 16:12 |
| ManoftheSea | odin_: then the default route is on your first connection, not over the VPN. You don't need to adjust the default route | 16:12 |
| frals | assumption is the mother of all fuck ups | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: at this point i'm pondering if we should just disassemble the libs, modify flip, reassemble | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:14 |
| odin_ | ManoftheSea, huh? a VPN does not usually provide the default route (I really don't get why WinXP by default has an option "Use default route on remote gateway" when the majority of users don't want that!) | 16:14 |
| ManoftheSea | sure. It's nice to not break the border cases. | 16:14 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: I personally think that we'd be better by replacing them. That lib is doing way too much stuff, as fanoush said, we shouldn't even be touching dispc registers at all. we want a pure memory solution. | 16:14 |
| ManoftheSea | odin_: I agree. | 16:14 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: maybe even girish could give us a pure binary memory-only solution? | 16:15 |
| odin_ | ManoftheSea, a VPN usually provides a point-to-point or sub-net route over an existing network (usually that network is the Internet and therefore requires a "default route" to work) | 16:15 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: i wonder if we can actually replace it with ease.. | 16:15 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: well you've at least enlightened me with the fact that it's similar in structure to the kernel omaplcd | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | it looks like the non-ripped out parts, yes | 16:16 |
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| Stskeeps | and the ripped out parts | 16:16 |
| javispedro | f. | 16:17 |
| crashanddie | odin_: depends on the implementation | 16:17 |
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| javispedro | *hmpf. | 16:17 |
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| crashanddie | odin_: Juniper's implementation just needs an initial tunnel, which gives you a virtual network adapter to the endpoint network (typically a 192.168/24 network) and you can change the default routes onces it's up | 16:18 |
| * javispedro ponders if mbxaccess ' mmap allows mmaping of any memory area | 16:18 | |
| crashanddie | s/onces/once/ | 16:18 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: odin_: Juniper's implementation just needs an initial tunnel, which gives you a virtual network adapter to the endpoint network (typically a 192.168/24 network) and you can change the default routes once it's up | 16:18 |
| ManoftheSea | crashanddie: but when would you want to do that? | 16:19 |
| odin_ | hmm... how do you get routing to the "initial tunnel" if that is on another network ? | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: knowing imtec, it would not surprise me. | 16:19 |
| ManoftheSea | if you're on the inside of the network, generally you don't VPN out. | 16:19 |
| crashanddie | ManoftheSea: when you want to route all of your data to that VPN | 16:19 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, o/ | 16:19 |
| odin_ | all VPNs work that way, they just require the IP address of the other endpoint, factors such an method, encryption type, authentication are all optional | 16:19 |
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| javispedro | morning MohammadAG | 16:20 |
| odin_ | but you must have a default route (for the majority of cases where road warriors use the Internet to get to the VPN endpoint, the mother-ship) | 16:20 |
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| ManoftheSea | crashanddie: I'm not understanding the use case where all the data needs to go that way. | 16:21 |
| odin_ | very few folks hook upto a private/limited network (that has a single or handful) of accessible subnets on it, witht he VPN endpoint being within that, who then require a default route our of that environment (provided by the VPN) to use the internet | 16:21 |
| ManoftheSea | Sure, it's possible. | 16:21 |
| ManoftheSea | But as a 90% solution, just don't break the edge cases. | 16:22 |
| crashanddie | ManoftheSea: say I'm on a big network, my ip address on that network is 10.0.0.x, but the routing table also allows to find 192.168.x. I VPN to my company which gives me a 192.168.144.x address, and my company's network is all on the 192.168.x range. If I don't change the default route, most of my request to internal networks (over the VPN), will go to the local network I'm connected to. I thus need to switch the default route | 16:22 |
| ManoftheSea | crashanddie: if the table allows you to go from one non-routable to another... isn't that already wrong? | 16:22 |
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| crashanddie | eh? | 16:23 |
| crashanddie | no, not at all | 16:23 |
| crashanddie | not routable just means not publicly routable, how you do it behind your switches is your problem | 16:24 |
| ManoftheSea | ok. | 16:24 |
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| ManoftheSea | but you don't want to change the default route, in your case. | 16:24 |
| ManoftheSea | You want to create a route for 192.168.x | 16:24 |
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| crashanddie | no, I need to change the default route | 16:24 |
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| ManoftheSea | why the default? | 16:25 |
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| crashanddie | because I didn't want any of my traffic to go to the local network | 16:25 |
| crashanddie | anyway, gotta run to the bank | 16:26 |
| crashanddie | later | 16:26 |
| ManoftheSea | hmmm | 16:26 |
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| ManoftheSea | ...bye? | 16:26 |
| ManoftheSea | Ok, I guess if you're on a hostile network, and you want to go to your home net to protect your traffic... | 16:27 |
| ManoftheSea | That sorta makes sense. | 16:27 |
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| satmd | and/or which sip header does asterisk check for callerid? | 16:28 |
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| odin_ | Stskeeps, what is the state of play with bootloading ? i.e. kexec, still broken ? | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | meego-dev has my latest status on that | 16:32 |
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| odin_ | found a May 17 post, when youi talk of "meego" are you using some kind of meego base platform ? or is it still maemo ? | 16:35 |
| RurouniJones | Meego is the Nokia/Intel combined linux | 16:35 |
| RurouniJones | which isn't out yet on the N900 | 16:36 |
| odin_ | I want to keep eMMC as-is (maemo) but can do anything with 16Gb MMC (like put meego root on it) | 16:36 |
| RurouniJones | The N900 is currently Maemo and *might* have a version of meego as far as I know | 16:36 |
| odin_ | RurouniJones, yes thanks for that but not what Im asking, I'm interested to know what those working towards "meego" are currently using as environment | 16:36 |
| javispedro | pupnik: wow, impressive plot. | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: may 17 is most recent status | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: the MMC problem may be because of a bad sd card though | 16:37 |
| RurouniJones | odin_: You mean what meego is based off of/ | 16:37 |
| * javispedro wonders why the weird interaction with cycles | 16:37 | |
| RurouniJones | ? | 16:37 |
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| odin_ | Stskeeps, so if I member correctly you have an N900 ? (just one or mode?) but no ARM prototype board (as too poor / no funding) | 16:37 |
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| pupnik | heh fast u are, javispedro | 16:38 |
| pupnik | nothing weird - need explanation? | 16:38 |
| javispedro | doom is not very CPU exigent? | 16:38 |
| ManoftheSea | exigent? | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: i have a N900, a zoom2 and a bunch of arm systems | 16:38 |
| javispedro | (rephrase) doom does not really that much CPU? | 16:38 |
| javispedro | *need. | 16:39 |
| ManoftheSea | Man, I'd have said intensive. | 16:39 |
| ManoftheSea | On the other hand, I learned a word today | 16:39 |
| ManoftheSea | not that I can pronounce it, so I'll look silly in conversation. | 16:39 |
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| pupnik | there is a mix of fixed-time stuff that needs to be done, and variable-time stuff that needs to be done, per-frame | 16:39 |
| pupnik | that yields such a graph - i forgot my maths to explain | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: you're welcome to show up at the meego-n900 meeting tomorrow and ask some questions, or hang out in #meego-arm | 16:40 |
| pupnik | you know realtiks and doom right | 16:40 |
| ManoftheSea | woo! | 16:40 |
| pupnik | anyway now i have the batch file to compare performance between various gcc flags - javispedro when i use your debian/rules, it compiles for arm1136j - i don't think that's what we want | 16:40 |
| ManoftheSea | higher frame rate gives faster movement speed, right? | 16:40 |
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| odin_ | s/mode/more/ so those working on a meego (or with kernel and rootfs changes) are doing that how ? I have N900 but am itching to get a prototype board (there was a better one than beagle I found somewhere for ok money), my N900 is not my primary phone so can reflashable (but not brickable!) | 16:41 |
| javispedro | pupnik: yes but I was expecting a certain number of cycles upon which reducing cycles it goes progressively slower | 16:41 |
| javispedro | maybe that magic number is << 1000 | 16:41 |
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| Stskeeps | odin_: beagle is about as close you get, or a zoom2 | 16:41 |
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| pupnik | oh realtiks = frame time -- that is getting faster as the graph gets lower | 16:41 |
| pupnik | maybe i should invert it (1/realtiks) | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: i work on meego with my n900 and to some extent, my n810 | 16:41 |
| javispedro | a | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | (i have xfce4 and meego runing on it) | 16:42 |
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| odin_ | N900 is my first device, since until they put at GSM module in it, it was never a device I wanted (waited ~4 years for them to "get it") | 16:42 |
| tybollt_ | Stskeeps: o_O 810 | 16:42 |
| tybollt_ | ? | 16:42 |
| javispedro | pupnik: it should build to armv7-a+neon if you build it under fremantle sbox with "vfp" not in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS | 16:42 |
| tybollt_ | odin_++ | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | tybollt_: yes, i am not kidding with the n8x0 hardware adaptation thread | 16:43 |
| javispedro | a bit weird but this is true in the autobuilder | 16:43 |
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| tybollt_ | Stskeeps: not read it, url? | 16:43 |
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| javispedro | pupnik: I'd be more interesting in getting the ARM "full" (not Thumb) JIT cpu working | 16:43 |
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| javispedro | pupnik: as Thumb seems to be deadly slow on the N900 seems | 16:43 |
| pupnik | ah ok | 16:44 |
| javispedro | *interested. | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: thumb is not recommended on n900 | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | ie, it should be disabled | 16:44 |
| javispedro | yes, that's what I heard :) | 16:44 |
| odin_ | I just hope Nokia get the next phase which is not so much "meego" but more, lets have 3 handsets based on whatever, a budget one, a mono-block one and a flagship one | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | tybollt_: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48929 | 16:44 |
| tybollt_ | Stskeeps: Molto grazie | 16:44 |
| pupnik | well i want one such graph for different build options and cpu speeds | 16:44 |
| javispedro | hm | 16:44 |
| pupnik | but time... is up for 2day\ | 16:44 |
| javispedro | 0.74 released! | 16:45 |
| javispedro | I wonder if they improved the arm jit.. | 16:45 |
| javispedro | doesn't seem to be as per changelog... | 16:45 |
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| pupnik | if you want, i will run these tests with other build cflags or cpu speeds - at least a handful | 16:46 |
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| Stskeeps | tybollt_: that said, we have to wait for 1.0 to really start the work | 16:46 |
| ManoftheSea | mono-block? | 16:47 |
| pupnik | just PM me whatever line you want, i overrode RULES cflags on that | 16:47 |
| odin_ | as like Blackberry/E6x/E7x/E72 style | 16:47 |
| javispedro | pupnik: i've never get any tangible performance increase from most gcc cflags I've ever seen... | 16:47 |
| ManoftheSea | a bar phone? | 16:47 |
| javispedro | maybe -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions helps with code size.. | 16:48 |
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| tybollt_ | Stskeeps: why is that? | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | tybollt_: i can build images with ARM extras cos of team membership atm and it isn't exported publically :/ | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | (silly silly) | 16:49 |
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| * javispedro really worries about moving bug reports for propietary nokia components | 16:53 | |
| Stskeeps | to where? | 16:53 |
| javispedro | qgil suggested nokia pilots | 16:53 |
| javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53002 | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | well, better than /dev/null, like, brainstorm | 16:53 |
| javispedro | never used nokia pilots, so :) | 16:54 |
| andre__ | I have no clue what that is. | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | texrat mentioned it at some point | 16:54 |
| andre__ | having bugs.maemo.org, bugs.meego.org, nokia's internal bugtracker, an upstream qt bugtracker, and nokia pilots makes me feel kind of.... "lost"? | 16:54 |
| * javispedro thinks this would be much easier if we kept the maemo brand and meego acted as maemo upstream | 16:55 | |
| Stskeeps | the harmattan rebrand is a bit of a oddity, yes | 16:55 |
| tybollt_ | it IS being rebranded? | 16:56 |
| tybollt_ | Stskeeps: do spill, sir | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | it's called meego, isn't it? | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | without being true meego, just a meego instance | 16:56 |
| tybollt_ | I thought they'd run in paralell (Or so I was told ~month ago) | 16:56 |
| tybollt_ | aaah olrite | 16:57 |
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| Shapeshifter | How do I get root rights inside a shell in easy-debian? | 16:57 |
| tybollt_ | Stskeeps: so a maemo w/ a meego sticker on it, in reality? | 16:57 |
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| Shapeshifter | nvm sudo su | 16:59 |
| onefish | is there any way to access fm transmitter with cli? | 16:59 |
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| javispedro | yes | 17:00 |
| tybollt_ | to what question? :) | 17:00 |
| javispedro | onefish's :) | 17:00 |
| onefish | javispedro, care to explain how? :) | 17:01 |
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| javispedro | fmtx_client | 17:01 |
| Shapeshifter | Has someone tried a full-upgrade in easy-debian? :> | 17:01 |
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| javispedro | or if you want to bypass nokia's propietary middleware, use v4l directly (but no binaries on device can do that, you'll have to build/port one) | 17:02 |
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| onefish | javispedro, thanks! | 17:05 |
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| * pupnik plays with ipod touch and is amazed how people spend money for "no buttons" | 17:13 | |
| javispedro | capacitive screen -- eeek | 17:14 |
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| javispedro | this reminds me of the joggler | 17:14 |
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| ManoftheSea | what's wrong with "no buttons"? | 17:14 |
| hrw | pupnik: do s/ipod touch/ipad mini/ and you will get xtra chicks | 17:14 |
| ManoftheSea | as long as you're only trying to do a few things... | 17:14 |
| GAN900 | What are we going to do when the N900+1 comes out? :( | 17:14 |
| ManoftheSea | N1000? | 17:15 |
| pupnik | hope for many buttons | 17:15 |
| ManoftheSea | (ten-hundred) | 17:15 |
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| hrw | GAN900: same as usual - complain and then lot of users will switch | 17:15 |
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| GAN900 | hrw, that doesn't help ME, though. | 17:16 |
| X-Fade | Anybody perhaps know what causes this? | 17:16 |
| X-Fade | aclocal: configure.ac: 43: macro `AM_PROG_CC_C_O' not found in library | 17:16 |
| X-Fade | 4 versions of automake installed, but still no luck ;) | 17:17 |
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| mintux | we can not install meboo)new version of maemo) on n900? | 17:17 |
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| hrw | mintux: first they have to release something | 17:18 |
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| dneary | Hi | 17:18 |
| dneary | Jaffa, Ping? | 17:19 |
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| ManoftheSea | mintux: meego? | 17:19 |
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| javispedro | GAN900: start a black market of n900 | 17:19 |
| ManoftheSea | man, I wish the phone/tablet were cheaper. | 17:20 |
| pupnik | GAN900: cut our fingernails | 17:21 |
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| GAN900 | pupnik, already done | 17:22 |
| GAN900 | somehow that doesn't make me hate capacitive any less. | 17:22 |
| Termana | *I* have a solution | 17:24 |
| Termana | You COULD | 17:25 |
| Termana | Build a bridge and get over it :P Just kidding | 17:25 |
| javispedro | KILL ALL CAPACITIVE SCREEN FANS! | 17:25 |
| Termana | Shall I open the flood gates? | 17:26 |
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| auenf | surely the horrible inaccuracy of capcitive is all thats needed to mention how bad it is? | 17:27 |
| auenf | i have trouble hitting what i want, and i have tiny fingers | 17:27 |
| amigadave | X-Fade: which automake version is being used? that macro was new in 1.8 i think | 17:27 |
| auenf | and i also tend to try to use fingernails anyway | 17:27 |
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| crashanddie | auenf: you're on this channel, you saying you have tiny fingers probably means you're a massive overweight adult with fingers the size of kid's legs | 17:27 |
| Termana | auenf, pfft I have more trouble with accuracy on resistive | 17:28 |
| auenf | well, i'm 50kg soaking wet, your call ;) | 17:28 |
| leino | hi all, trying to get the ssh server started on my n900 | 17:28 |
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| leino | what is the name of the ssh daemon? | 17:28 |
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| leino | I suspect it's not running | 17:28 |
| SpeedEvil | install 'openssh+server' from extras | 17:29 |
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| leino | I installed "openssh server+client" | 17:29 |
| X-Fade | amigadave: Trying to find out. | 17:29 |
| leino | the client works | 17:29 |
| amigadave | X-Fade: if you are using autoreconf, a --verbose should tell you, i think | 17:30 |
| javispedro | autoconf -- urgh :) | 17:30 |
| X-Fade | amigadave: Is inside an OBS, so need to find out what is going on ;) | 17:30 |
| amigadave | X-Fade: ah, i see :) | 17:30 |
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| dneary | amigadave, I'm just wondering if there was any page in the wiki we could have pointed Pallavi to which he could have used to solve his problem | 17:31 |
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| leino | also, everyone.. are you supposed to be able to ping your n900? | 17:31 |
| dneary | amigadave, Packaging is pretty good... also the autoconf & automake tutorial you just updated | 17:32 |
| amigadave | dneary: the autotools section of the packaging article nicely covered it | 17:32 |
| dneary | I thought so too | 17:32 |
| amigadave | but yeah, i should find a place to add those autotools tutorial links | 17:32 |
| dneary | I would love to know where he was getting his code samples from | 17:32 |
| amigadave | well, the wiki pages for osso-abook (and the API reference) gave no indication of the pkg-config file to use, which is not great | 17:33 |
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| auenf | leino, ping from where? | 17:33 |
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| leino | I try to ping it over internet, from my home pc | 17:34 |
| leino | I got the ip associated with the gprs0 device | 17:34 |
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| auenf | you might be behind a NAT thru your provider | 17:35 |
| leino | I can ping other stuff | 17:35 |
| auenf | i have a full static ip with my mobile sim | 17:35 |
| leino | also I can ping my home pc from my n900 | 17:35 |
| auenf | thats fine, you'd have an ip to yourself at home | 17:36 |
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| auenf | but your phone plan is most likely a shared ip with lots of other phones | 17:36 |
| auenf | using NAT | 17:36 |
| leino | sorry, what? | 17:37 |
| dneary | amigadave, I have been meaning to ask you | 17:37 |
| leino | you mean a bunch of other phones have the same ip at the same time? | 17:37 |
| auenf | leino, who is your mobile provider? | 17:37 |
| dneary | amigadave, Why did you add the superfluous []s to arguments in configure.ac? | 17:37 |
| pupnik | tongue did not work on iPod | 17:37 |
| SpeedEvil | leino: yes | 17:37 |
| leino | they're called telenor | 17:37 |
| SpeedEvil | leino: that's how NAT works | 17:37 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: I use my nose quite a lot on the n900 | 17:37 |
| amigadave | dneary: m4 quoting is a black art, easiest to play it safe and quote every argument | 17:37 |
| pupnik | nose works on iPod | 17:38 |
| amigadave | plus, some people get really confused that arguments are seperated by commas and not spaces | 17:38 |
| auenf | leino, and you have a normal mobile plan with data? | 17:38 |
| dneary | That at least has the merit of being consistent :) | 17:38 |
| ManoftheSea | "imma dial wif mah face" | 17:38 |
| dneary | Anyway - gotta blog... | 17:38 |
| leino | auenf: I don't really know what you mean by "normal" or "with data" | 17:38 |
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| auenf | as opposed to a 'mobile broadband' plan (which is really meant to be used in a usb modem) | 17:38 |
| BCMM | pupnik: is that an app, or do you mean you actually can't work an ipod touchscreen by licking it? | 17:39 |
| auenf | leino, http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?tag=NAT | 17:39 |
| leino | auenf: the plan is called "telenor surf", and is meant for cellphones | 17:40 |
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| pupnik | BCMM: it did not respond to my tongue, at least. YMMV | 17:40 |
| auenf | the 'ip' your phone is getting, its 10. ? | 17:40 |
| leino | auenf: would a dynamic dns service solve this problem? | 17:41 |
| BCMM | anybody know what sort of touchscreen the ipod touch has? | 17:41 |
| auenf | dynamic dns is meant for connections where your ip changes, eg, every time you connect | 17:41 |
| BCMM | dynamic DNS is useful | 17:41 |
| leino | so what is the punchline | 17:41 |
| auenf | your problem is that you dont have an ip to yourself, it shared by other users also, and in order to forward ports thru it, like internet connection sharing | 17:42 |
| leino | sshing into your n900 cant be done if you have the NAT thing? | 17:42 |
| BCMM | but wouldn't help with not having a globally unique ip address | 17:42 |
| auenf | leino, whats the start of the ip? 10. ? | 17:42 |
| leino | nope, 178. | 17:42 |
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| BCMM | if you absolutely cannot have an "external" open port, "reverse SSH" is the answer | 17:43 |
| leino | oh, I just saw it changed | 17:43 |
| leino | from what it was before | 17:43 |
| leino | still starts the same tho | 17:43 |
| BCMM | i.e. SSH connection from the phone to your computer, that forwards another SSH connection that goes the other way | 17:43 |
| leino | auenf: (I restarted it) | 17:43 |
| auenf | hmm, might be dynamic dns | 17:43 |
| auenf | altho you may have lots of ports restricted also | 17:43 |
| auenf | of course its more likely to be NAT | 17:44 |
| auenf | 178 is the ip that shows up in ifconfig? | 17:44 |
| auenf | or whatismyip.com ? | 17:44 |
| BCMM | (using SSH's port forwarding abilities) | 17:44 |
| leino | auenf: yeah | 17:44 |
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| auenf | try that site also, see if its a different ip | 17:44 |
| leino | whatismyip.com gave the same answer | 17:45 |
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| leino | what is the easiest way to figure out which ports are open? | 17:46 |
| auenf | not enough results in english for me to see much about telenor surf | 17:47 |
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| leino | auenf: that's ok, anything special I should look for? | 17:47 |
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| BCMM | leino: from the point of view of a machine on the internet, or actually open on the phone? | 17:48 |
| auenf | BCMM, he's trying to ssh to his phone over the internet | 17:48 |
| leino | BCMM: I want to know all three I guess | 17:48 |
| SpeedEvil | leino: what's your IP - first | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 17:49 |
| BCMM | auenf: and so far it doesn't work? | 17:49 |
| leino | BCMM: I can ssh to my pc over the internet, from my n900 | 17:49 |
| leino | but not the other way around | 17:49 |
| leino | I get connection timeout | 17:49 |
| auenf | i think so, and he cant ping his phone via the ip either | 17:49 |
| BCMM | leino: have a look at sshd logs on both machines | 17:49 |
| BCMM | leino: that way, you get another source for the IP address of the phone, and you find out if the phone detected anything when you SSH'ed it | 17:50 |
| BCMM | of course, it is possible that the network gives real IP addresses, but messes with incoming connections as a braindead security measure | 17:50 |
| leino | my /var/log is empty | 17:51 |
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| BCMM | actually, i dunno if the n900 has sshd logs | 17:51 |
| auenf | most phone plans have restrictive access, pretty much blocking lots ;) | 17:51 |
| BCMM | leino: are you sure the ssh server is running? can you do "ssh localhost" on the phone? | 17:52 |
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| leino | ssh localhost did indeed work! | 17:53 |
| leino | Imma try sshing to my own external ip (from the n900 to the n900) | 17:54 |
| leino | omg, works! | 17:54 |
| tybollt_ | Imma firin mah lasah! | 17:54 |
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| leino | still can't do it from my home pc though | 17:55 |
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| sulx | leino: isp blocking | 17:55 |
| mgedmin | leino, most likely your ISP blocks incoming connections on port 22 | 17:55 |
| BCMM | or on all ports | 17:56 |
| BCMM | but yeah, try some weird port numbers | 17:56 |
| auenf | not isp, mobile network provider | 17:56 |
| leino | but then why could I do "ssh [myip]" on my n900, wouldnt that go via port 22 | 17:56 |
| leino | ? | 17:56 |
| mgedmin | I'd say the mobile provider _is_ the ISP in this case | 17:56 |
| sulx | true, but not through network | 17:56 |
| mgedmin | leino, it doesn't go through the firewall | 17:56 |
| Disconnect | leino: n900 doesn't send packets to/from itself via the network. | 17:56 |
| BCMM | leino: that didn't really go over the network | 17:57 |
| auenf | but my mobile provider is a true ISP, not a mobile provider ;) | 17:57 |
| Disconnect | network would reject them | 17:57 |
| mgedmin | your n900 has that IP, all the packets are internally handled by the kernel and never even appear on the air | 17:57 |
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| auenf | i have a mobile broadband plan with voice support | 17:57 |
| leino | everyone: ok that explains it | 17:57 |
| BCMM | IP networks are damn clever, and it will've worked out that the quickest route is straight back to the network stack | 17:57 |
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| Disconnect | BCMM: also, a packet with teh same source/dest is prolly spoofed anyway. :) | 17:58 |
| mgedmin | you could set up ssh port forwarding from the n900, and then tunnel back... | 17:58 |
| BCMM | that is a pretty evil quit message | 17:58 |
| Disconnect | just like mail that says its from and to you.. | 17:58 |
| leino | so what do I do... set my sshd to listen on a different port and then try sshing in on that port number? | 17:58 |
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| sulx | or use ssh tunnel | 17:58 |
| BCMM | leino: what mgedmin said | 17:58 |
| BCMM | SSH can forward ports for you, in either direction | 17:58 |
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| leino | ok, a little more explicitly please :) | 17:59 |
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| BCMM | so ssh to the PC from the phone, and use that connection to forward a connection in the other direction | 17:59 |
| BCMM | man ssh, look at -L | 17:59 |
| sulx | you connect ssh tunnel from n900 to home | 17:59 |
| mgedmin | -R, I think, in this case | 17:59 |
| mgedmin | user@n900: ssh your.home.pc -R 2222:localhost:22 | 17:59 |
| BCMM | sorry, not -L, that's for going the other way | 17:59 |
| BCMM | listen to mgedmin | 17:59 |
| mgedmin | then yourusername@your.home.pc can do ssh -p 2222 localhost and end up logging into your n900 | 18:00 |
| mgedmin | I'm not sure what the point of that would be | 18:00 |
| Shapeshifter | mhh... I'm getting this problem again. I think I need to kill something, can't remember how the command went: [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > sb-conf select FREMANTLE_X86 | 18:00 |
| Shapeshifter | sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first | 18:00 |
| mgedmin | well, you could then use scp I suppose | 18:00 |
| mgedmin | or mount your n900's filesystem with sshfs | 18:00 |
| leino | mgedmin: that would setup a ssh connection from my n900 to my home pc, would it not? | 18:00 |
| leino | I want to do the reverse | 18:00 |
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| mgedmin | leino, two commands, one setting up n900 -> pc (with tunnel), the other one traversing that tunnel to establish pc -> n900 | 18:01 |
| leino | ok sorry | 18:01 |
| BCMM | if you are a KDE user, you can use the fish:// protocol in konqueror | 18:01 |
| leino | should have read it all :) | 18:01 |
| BCMM | (to see the files on the n900) | 18:01 |
| leino | ok, gonna try that | 18:01 |
| mgedmin | why not do it over wifi? | 18:01 |
| mgedmin | why use 3g? | 18:01 |
| leino | I dont have a wifi router atm | 18:02 |
| mgedmin | ah | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | leino: usb? | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | don't tell me you don't have a usb port open | 18:02 |
| leino | crashanddie: of course | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | you can have networking over USB | 18:02 |
| mgedmin | cables suck, but having to manually establish a tunnel before you can ssh in also sucks | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | works very well, faster than any wireless you'll get | 18:02 |
| mgedmin | that's true | 18:02 |
| TomaszD | http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nphoton.2010.87.html | 18:03 |
| crashanddie | TomaszD: chinese, therefore not newsworthy | 18:03 |
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| crashanddie | TomaszD: the chinese scientists are under so much pressure they'll bollocks their way through papers | 18:03 |
| crashanddie | TomaszD: unless it's reviewed and approved by a correctly funded and established university, I'm not reading it | 18:04 |
| BCMM | usb networking with the n900 is pretty good | 18:04 |
| TomaszD | :/ | 18:04 |
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| BCMM | can't remember what i did, but there is some config file you can edit to enable it automatically whenever you choose pc suite mode | 18:04 |
| crashanddie | indeed, but that's even too much hassle | 18:04 |
| mgedmin | config file? | 18:04 |
| crashanddie | usually I just connect in mass storage, and then ifup usb0 | 18:04 |
| mgedmin | what config file? | 18:04 |
| TomaszD | crashanddie, I'm still biking, 45km today, haven't... crashed and died yet ;) | 18:05 |
| BCMM | combined with a static ip for usb0 on my desktop, and i now just plug it in, choose pc-suite mode, and run ssh/konqueror | 18:05 |
| crashanddie | TomaszD: good on ya | 18:05 |
| BCMM | fish:// over USB is still quite a lot slower than mass storage | 18:05 |
| TomaszD | it's addictive | 18:05 |
| crashanddie | TomaszD: yeah, it is, just stay on the right path of the addiction: cycling, not buying | 18:05 |
| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: Biking + openstreetmap | 18:06 |
| mgedmin | on the plus side you get access to more and you can access it all simultaneously from both computers (pc and n900) | 18:06 |
| javispedro | usb networking with n900 = install libicd-network-usb,, plug into pc, select pc suite, click on netwrok connections, tap usb. | 18:06 |
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| TomaszD | SpeedEvil, yeah well I need a working SHR install first, a microsd card for offline maps and a bike holder... | 18:06 |
| * mgedmin has a script to modprobe g_nokia, ifconfig usb0, and start a DHCP server on usb0 from the n900 -- then when I plug in a cable, Network Manager on my laptop autoconnects | 18:06 | |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 18:06 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: no offense, but the N900 doesn't have what it takes to be a proper biking tool yet | 18:07 |
| mgedmin | what's this "libicd-network-usb" thing? | 18:07 |
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| TomaszD | I got gps working, but wifi doesn't want to cooperate :/ | 18:07 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: No, it's not good for navigation, if that's what you mean. It also doesn't have a spoke tensioning tool. | 18:07 |
| mgedmin | you can use it as a small hammer, though | 18:08 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: it needs to be able to run with GPS on for 10 hours without the battery dying, and it needs an app that measures steepness, speed, tracks your movements, and then export it to something usable on a laptop (or well, something viewable on the n900 as well) | 18:08 |
| pupnik | Nokia Stylus SU-36 works with capacitive | 18:08 |
| TomaszD | crashanddie, I use the gps track logger widget on the n900 for now, but I want to move to the freerunner with tangogps | 18:08 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: It can run with gps for 10 hours. And gnuplot. | 18:08 |
| Disconnect | crashanddie: get one of the tracker-tags (forget the name off the top of my head) with bluetooth. | 18:08 |
| tybollt_ | ten hours Crash? You one of them "ironman" nutties? :) | 18:09 |
| Shapeshifter | For some reason I cannot run the qt4-maemo5-homescreen-example in scratchbox (while I can on my n900). After installing it, I get these errors: hildon-home[6361]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Unknown Plugin Loader type: qt | 18:09 |
| Shapeshifter | hildon-home[6361]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Error loading plugin: /usr/share/applications/hildon-home/qt-homescreen-example.desktop | 18:09 |
| Shapeshifter | qt4-maemo5-homescreen-loader was installed successfully though. | 18:09 |
| leino | ok, the "user@n900: ssh your.home.pc -R 2222:localhost:22" thing gave me a password prompt for root on my home machine | 18:09 |
| leino | is that what you expected? | 18:09 |
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| mgedmin | leino, um, no | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | I expected it to give you a password prompt for 'user' | 18:10 |
| BCMM | the n900 would be perfect if it had host-side USB, an infrared receiver, and a spoke tensioning tool | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | you probably want 'ssh yourusername@your.home.pc -R ...' | 18:10 |
| crashanddie | tybollt_: well, leave the house around 8, 1.5 hours cycling to meet up with people, then about 6 hours of cycling (on and off, breaks every hour or two) then cycling back home, 10 really is a minimum for a full day out | 18:10 |
| leino | I dont have a user named 'user' on my home pc | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | BCMM, a digital thermometer and compass | 18:10 |
| BCMM | actually, the compass might be kinda useful | 18:10 |
| BCMM | the GPS things that work out your heading from your motion are a bit hackish | 18:11 |
| SpeedEvil | mgedmin: Naah - thermometer is pointless. | 18:11 |
| Shapeshifter | nvm an apt-get upgrade fixed it. | 18:11 |
| SpeedEvil | mgedmin: The main camera should also work as a FLIR. | 18:11 |
| BCMM | and fail when you do the sensible things of *stopping* to find out where you are | 18:11 |
| mgedmin | I'm often curious about the indoor temperature | 18:11 |
| mgedmin | although the n900 gets hot rather often, which would throw off readings | 18:11 |
| BCMM | it would basically read teh temperature of your pocket | 18:11 |
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| crashanddie | BCMM: indeed, on a bike, I'd rather have something that accurately and immediately tells me where I've been, rather than guess for 20 seconds where I'm going | 18:12 |
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| BCMM | crashanddie: not sure i understand | 18:12 |
| leino | ok I tried "user@n900: ssh leino@your.home.pc -R 2222:localhost:22", and it gave me "Warning: remote port forwarding failed for listen port 2222" | 18:13 |
| BCMM | anyway, i personally find maep is very nice for cycling | 18:13 |
| BCMM | a GPS device with opencyclemap! | 18:13 |
| tybollt_ | crashanddie: I'm flat out impressed. I'd croak after half an hour ;P | 18:13 |
| BCMM | (and the track is nice) | 18:13 |
| crashanddie | I'm on a bike, I kinda know where I'm going, I just need to know my general location to adjust the bearing of my general direction. I don't need something to tell me "turn left now" | 18:13 |
| tybollt_ | crashanddie: x-country? | 18:13 |
| smoku | digital compass for orienting the map is nice. but the real application is augmented reality | 18:13 |
| crashanddie | tybollt_: mostly yeah | 18:14 |
| BCMM | crashanddie: doesn't maep basically do that? | 18:14 |
| BCMM | oh, doesn't really do direction | 18:14 |
| tybollt_ | besides - anyone engineered a bike mount for a N900 yet? | 18:14 |
| BCMM | tybollt_: do want. | 18:14 |
| * mgedmin tries | 18:14 | |
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| BCMM | it would have to be pretty trustworthy | 18:15 |
| tybollt_ | should be possible to alter a current mount of some kind - no? | 18:15 |
| crashanddie | tybollt_: cycling is easy. If you're on your own, you can go at the speed you want and keep going for days, even with the crappiest fitness level. If you're with other people and need to keep up with them, it's usually better if you're fit enough to have it the other way around: they need to keep up with you | 18:15 |
| mgedmin | leino, Works For Me (TM) | 18:15 |
| tybollt_ | crashanddie: well that's the point kinda innit? To have the others trigger you to go faster? | 18:15 |
| BCMM | i've found it pretty easy to increase cycling speed and stamina - easier by far than same for running, for me | 18:16 |
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| leino | mgedmin: ok.. well I want to try the usb thing now | 18:16 |
| mgedmin | leino, is anything already listening on port 2222 on your desktop? you can try a different port if you want | 18:16 |
| frals | tybollt_: duct tape should be able to do the trick ;) | 18:16 |
| mgedmin | just pick something over 1024 so you won't need to ssh into the root account | 18:16 |
| BCMM | nokia makes a "universal" car mount that is supposed to work with the n900 | 18:16 |
| BCMM | perhaps it can be hacked up | 18:17 |
| leino | mgedmin: ok.. I dont know how to find out if anything is listening on 2222 on my desktop | 18:17 |
| mgedmin | netstat -tl | 18:17 |
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| BCMM | i find it hard to believe it gives access to top buttons and ports though | 18:17 |
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| lcuk | isnt the universal mount rebranded ducttape? | 18:18 |
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| BCMM | http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/car-solutions-accessories/mobile-holders/nokia-universal-holder-cr-114 | 18:19 |
| leino | mgedmin: maybe I should mention that although I got that warning, I still got a ssh connection from my n900 to my home pc | 18:19 |
| mgedmin | yes | 18:19 |
| leino | which seems to work | 18:19 |
| mgedmin | makes sense | 18:19 |
| BCMM | can't tell if it would hold the longs sides of short sides | 18:19 |
| crashanddie | tybollt_: not really, fast isn't really better | 18:19 |
| BCMM | also, doesn't look obviously hackable | 18:19 |
| crashanddie | tybollt_: it's better to go further than faster, though if your natural speed is faster than others, you'll be a lot more comfortable a lot longer | 18:20 |
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| TomaszD | there's the BRODIT 511099 passive holder, with a bike mount it could work | 18:22 |
| TomaszD | but I'd add some additional protection just in case... | 18:22 |
| BCMM | do they offer a bike mount? | 18:23 |
| TomaszD | yes | 18:23 |
| TomaszD | a universal HR mount | 18:23 |
| BCMM | HR? | 18:23 |
| TomaszD | so you can have a bike mount or a car mount with the same backplate | 18:23 |
| BCMM | can't quite see in the photo - camera button is exposed, right? | 18:24 |
| TomaszD | it looks as though they though this one through, you can even open the keyboard in this | 18:24 |
| BCMM | wow | 18:25 |
| BCMM | how? doesn't look possible in photos | 18:25 |
| TomaszD | http://www.sanbo.de/out/1/html/0/dyn_images/z1/brodit_passiv_511099_nokia_n900_z1_z1.png | 18:25 |
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| TomaszD | the mount doesn't block the slider | 18:25 |
| BCMM | TomaszD: what holds it on? | 18:26 |
| BCMM | does it just sorta "click"? | 18:26 |
| TomaszD | fairy dust, which is why I'd use some rubber bands on the sides | 18:26 |
| BCMM | yeah | 18:26 |
| TomaszD | especially for bike use | 18:26 |
| Trewas | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15544 <- I have that one for bicycle mount, it worked quite well with my previous phone but I have not yet tested with n900 | 18:26 |
| BCMM | (i can't think of a sane use for the front camera while cycling) | 18:26 |
| TomaszD | Trewas, testes, won't work | 18:27 |
| Trewas | TomaszD: damn :( what's the problem? | 18:27 |
| TomaszD | if you clasp the n900 in this, it will shut down, as you push the power button with the sides :) | 18:27 |
| lcuk | BCMM, main camer? | 18:27 |
| Trewas | TomaszD: groan :) | 18:27 |
| BCMM | lcuk: ? | 18:27 |
| lcuk | front camera == main camera | 18:27 |
| * lcuk keeps getting mixed up | 18:27 | |
| BCMM | lcuk: i meant the camera facing the user | 18:27 |
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| BCMM | it's crap compared to the other camera, so i consider the other camera the main camera | 18:28 |
| lcuk | check how out of breath you are | 18:28 |
| lcuk | take photos every mile | 18:28 |
| BCMM | hah | 18:28 |
| lcuk | "this is BCMM after 2 miles" | 18:28 |
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| BCMM | i was envisioning very dangerous teleconferencing | 18:28 |
| lcuk | also, for your clip: http://ordable.com/img/lists/the-best-motivational-posters-of-all-time/items/2907200985797RubberBands.jpg | 18:28 |
| lcuk | not a problem, especially if its c2c | 18:29 |
| lcuk | cyclist to cyclist :D | 18:29 |
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| BCMM | lcuk: i mean the looking at the screen | 18:29 |
| lcuk | people have starteddoing bike trips down bolivias death road | 18:29 |
| BCMM | hmm | 18:29 |
| BCMM | perhaps one could have a small mirror behind the main camera | 18:29 |
| tripzero | trips? someone called me? | 18:29 |
| BCMM | and have a corner of the screen show you what is ahead | 18:29 |
| TomaszD | Trewas, I've tried holding it in landscape mode, but it *will* fall out, it's just not sturdy enough, on a bike it will break as the n900 is too heavy for it | 18:30 |
| lcuk | id rather just look ahead than that :P | 18:30 |
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| jaska | also there is probably more shaking and quick shocks while biking if going anywhere with damaged pavement | 18:31 |
| lcuk | just try it offroad | 18:31 |
| lcuk | if you can find a clamp that holds for MTB then a crumbling pavement will be childsplay | 18:31 |
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| TomaszD | so a word of warning, don't buy the bike holder from DX if you have the n900... | 18:32 |
| TomaszD | it worked fine for an e51 in a rally car, during a rally though :) mounted on an internal handrail | 18:32 |
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| lcuk | what would be useful would be one of the external LCD bluetooth displays | 18:32 |
| barisione | do you know how to prevent the hildon-desktop from showing the fake empty window when launching my application? | 18:33 |
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| lcuk | mmm barisione dunno, i thought it just came up by default for gtk i can dig and see where it was initiated holdon | 18:34 |
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| barisione | on gnome you have a .desktop key to say that you don't want it | 18:34 |
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| lcuk | barisione, claudio will know for certain | 18:35 |
| barisione | ok, I will ask him | 18:35 |
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| TomaszD | heh, so the SDK doesn't work on amd64, it failed to install and didn't even attempt to clean up | 18:37 |
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| MohammadAG | TomaszD, use -F | 18:44 |
| Shapeshifter | :'( | 18:44 |
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| Viliny_on_N900 | heya | 19:07 |
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| BCMM | g'day | 19:09 |
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| crashanddie | http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/129149689842286448.jpg | 19:10 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk & GAN900: ^ | 19:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~rape scratchbox maemo SDK | 19:14 |
| * infobot takes scratchbox maemo SDK behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams | 19:14 | |
| DocScrutinizer | abandon all hope who enters here | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | SCIZZZZOOOOIIIIIIID >:-((( | 19:14 |
| pupnik | mmm fruity oaty bars! http://fruity-oaty-bars.apathy.org.uk/ | 19:14 |
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| E0x | DocScrutinizer: hehe why ? | 19:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's an alien on my PC, none of the tools I'm used to works inside that crap chroot environment. And WHY THE F*CK do I need such scizoid mess, just to compile a hello world or a kernel? My genuine gcc should work like a charm, when given the right directives wrt wher to fetch libs and which target arch to build - well I guess that's MADDE then | 19:17 |
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| pupnik | you sound almost qualified to describe a fix | 19:18 |
| E0x | heh | 19:18 |
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| E0x | but MADDE is just a preview right now | 19:20 |
| E0x | not ? | 19:20 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, we want to keep the lusers out. :P | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | I goddamn did some cross platform development in my life, that's never been as clumsy as scratchbox | 19:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | edit *on your system*, compile *on your system*, either run in an emulator environment or simply download to target. remote debug *from your system*. iterate (aka start over from beginning) | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | simple as that | 19:22 |
| user_ | i want to install software but it said you dont have enough memory what shall i do? | 19:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 19:23 |
| infobot | it has been said that optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs | 19:23 |
| spturtle | DocScrutinizer: so how would you run tests that want to run a cross-compiled app? | 19:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | spturtle: please rephrase | 19:23 |
| * spturtle hasn't even gotten scratchbox to work ): | 19:23 | |
| spturtle | DocScrutinizer: many applications and libs have a "make check" target that might run the apps you just built, but that doesn't work in a cross compilation env | 19:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I don't think I need that | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | for now at least | 19:25 |
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| Mece_ | hey is there any way of getting a touchselector with single selection to have nothing selected initially? | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw your question sounds like "and how would you fill gasoline into a elctro car?" | 19:26 |
| Mece_ | have unselect_all(0) and set_active(0, -1) and the bastard still selects the first item. grr argh! | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | spturtle: I guess those "make test" scripts had to be rewritten to use a parameter "target=emu" / "target=real_hw" and then download the sw_under_test to the selected target and run it there | 19:28 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: it's way easier to do a convoluted build system that to fix every other package in existence | 19:28 |
| mintux | what the hell should I do ? 257mb of root is full I can not get sms and install software | 19:28 |
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| mintux | **can't | 19:28 |
| wazd | hello people :) | 19:28 |
| Mece_ | mintux, disable repos from ham | 19:28 |
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| GAN900 | Jaffa, hopefully I can finish it at lunch in a half hour. | 19:28 |
| GAN900 | Yello, wazd. | 19:29 |
| mintux | Mece_:in file manager? | 19:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: no, it's way easier for NOKIA to give us a matrix where we can play using the toys NOKIA is willing to give to us | 19:29 |
| Mece_ | minntux, in the app manager | 19:29 |
| wazd | ~seen vdvsx | 19:29 |
| infobot | vdvsx <~Valerio@Maemo/community/contributor/VDVsx> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 21h 44m 30s ago, saying: 'its true almost 22h and still a lot of light :D'. | 19:29 |
| wazd | aaaaw | 19:29 |
| Mece_ | mintux, in the app manager | 19:30 |
| mintux | Mece_:after that update? | 19:30 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you can use whatever tool you want -- it's just that you'll find that it is horribly easier to build your average debian package under scratchbox than under a cross compiler. | 19:30 |
| Mece_ | mintux, what update? | 19:30 |
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| mintux | list | 19:30 |
| wazd | timeless: btw, that row that you told me douesn't work :( | 19:30 |
| mintux | Mece_:why root partition is too low ? | 19:30 |
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| mintux | is there any way to increase that ? | 19:31 |
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| wazd | timeless: maybe I was doing something wrong cause there were no "backisback = 0" at all | 19:31 |
| mintux | and why it depends on sms inbox ? | 19:31 |
| Mece_ | mintux, then either find and remove the offending (as in not optified) software, or try some of the methods in wiki. | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: to BUILD I agree - to DEVELOP I dare to disagree completely | 19:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SB is a mere *building* environment | 19:32 |
| mintux | Mece_: im in linux . it's very bad I limited to install softwares (in unlimited world ) | 19:32 |
| Mece_ | mintux, well the fast chip is 256Mb. it's a physical limitation. | 19:32 |
| Mece_ | mintux, install them to /opt | 19:33 |
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| mintux | Mece_: where did they install? I install from app manager not handly | 19:33 |
| crashanddie | oh, another stupid "free as in beer" zealot? | 19:33 |
| Mece_ | mintux, well the applications in extras install to opt. the stuff in testing and devel install wherever they please, although often to opt. | 19:34 |
| * wazd looks at "Nokia Windows Phone?!" thread | 19:34 | |
| wazd | aaah. god'ol t.m.o. | 19:34 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: yes :) | 19:34 |
| wazd | *good | 19:34 |
| crashanddie | mintux: you have a room of a specific size, you can not put more things than the size will allow in that room. End of discussion. | 19:34 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: note that I'm a sbox fan. :) | 19:35 |
| mintux | crashanddie: can we create another partition and mount some dir like share or var to it ? | 19:35 |
| crashanddie | ~optification | 19:36 |
| infobot | i heard optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs | 19:36 |
| crashanddie | ~rootfs | 19:36 |
| infobot | i guess rootfs is mount ro, but all the nessary files that need to be writen to are created in a ramdisk that is rw | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: so augment your beloved SB with a decent interface t the host system. Shouldn,t be hard at all | 19:36 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: it's called bind mounts | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep | 19:36 |
| wazd | I wonder who needs ZodTTD if we have javispedro | 19:36 |
| crashanddie | mintux: http://wiki.maemo.org/Opt_Problem | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | something along that line | 19:36 |
| wazd | :) | 19:36 |
| javispedro | wazd: well, if he made a opengles plugin and it's not releasing it... | 19:37 |
| wazd | and RST38h :) | 19:37 |
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| javispedro | (also, I never owned any psx) | 19:37 |
| Mece_ | hey could you make ~rootfs include a link to the wiki entry on freeing up space in rootfs | 19:37 |
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| wazd | javispedro: you can buy it for like 10 bucks :D | 19:37 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: my personal setup is a bind mounted $HOME/Projects to $HOME/Projects/Maemo; works very well. Also I usually export that folder via NFS to N900 too. | 19:38 |
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| javispedro | (one of the mount points _inside_ sbox) | 19:38 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you can do all of this from /etc/fstab and /etc/exports | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: script or it never happened | 19:39 |
| Mece_ | haaa | 19:39 |
| javispedro | no script, just a line on /etc/fstab | 19:39 |
| Mece_ | good one | 19:39 |
| wazd | Jaffa: btw, I've found the sense in your weekly reviews when I got out of touch with community for a while :) thanks for your great work :) | 19:39 |
| javispedro | /mnt/Fuentes/Javier/Maemo/scratchbox/users/javier/home/javier/Projectsautobind | 19:39 |
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| crashanddie | wtf is going on with sticky crap in community on tmo? | 19:41 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, 100 Days: Part Deuce | 19:42 |
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| javispedro | sounds like a bad film name :) | 19:42 |
| GAN900 | Conclusion from the sprint meeting yesterday | 19:42 |
| GAN900 | javispedro, it was a bad film name. | 19:42 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: part deuce? | 19:42 |
| javispedro | I think it's nice either way. | 19:42 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, recall the 100 Days from 2008? | 19:43 |
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| crashanddie | I do | 19:43 |
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| crashanddie | just don't remember tmo becoming 5 clicks long | 19:44 |
| cityOfLights | hi all | 19:44 |
| cityOfLights | can any one here help me with a shell loop? | 19:44 |
| * MohammadAG plays wedding music | 19:45 | |
| crashanddie | cityOfLights: for i in *.ext; do; echo $i; cat $i | grep $1; done; | 19:45 |
| javispedro | let's hope we get useful feedback out of the threads instead of suggestions about the n900+1 keyboard =) | 19:45 |
| cityOfLights | MohammadAG: congrats | 19:45 |
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| MohammadAG | cityOfLights, not me, <crashanddie> I do | 19:47 |
| Mece_ | tmo is hilarious. this one made coffee come out of my nose: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=663866&postcount=15 | 19:47 |
| Mece_ | (from laughing) | 19:48 |
| javispedro | hilarious, and crazy. | 19:49 |
| javispedro | ah, abill_uk. | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | 'PLEASE be tactical' | 19:49 |
| * SpeedEvil readies his tactical nukes. | 19:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Mece_: damn, I still need a kitchen to prepare me some | 19:50 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: can I ask you a favour, bru? | 19:50 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: give weed to Reggie so he bans geneven | 19:50 |
| javispedro | geneven, abill, that other guy whose name I forgot.. | 19:50 |
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| Shapeshifter | I wonder why they disabled the sequential icon loading for the launch menu by default. it looks beautiful :> | 19:51 |
| cityOfLights | ok | 19:52 |
| cityOfLights | here is the for loop I need help with | 19:52 |
| cityOfLights | http://dpaste.com/196648/ | 19:52 |
| Shapeshifter | cityOfLights: what's the problem? | 19:53 |
| Shapeshifter | the args() function? | 19:53 |
| cityOfLights | crashanddie: how to have the for at line 32 use each on the strings in HOME_ID? | 19:53 |
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| cityOfLights | Shapeshifter: I couldnt get the args function to work, but I am reffering to line 32 now | 19:54 |
| crashanddie | cityOfLights: what is the format of $HOME_ID? | 19:55 |
| cityOfLights | line 18 | 19:55 |
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| crashanddie | cityOfLights: remove the quotes around $HOME_ID | 19:58 |
| * DocScrutinizer attaches hose to Mece_'s nose | 19:58 | |
| cityOfLights | crashanddie: ok | 19:58 |
| cityOfLights | line 18? | 20:00 |
| crashanddie | cityOfLights: no, line 32 | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.faqs.org/docs/bashman/bashref_toc.html | 20:00 |
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| Treibholz | hmm, my adblock isn't working anymore | 20:01 |
| Treibholz | how could I have broken it? | 20:01 |
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| Zucca | Is there a cli command for maemo notifications? I'm planning a small script that would look for a file from my server (using scp), then notify me if it existed. | 20:02 |
| cityOfLights | crashanddie: sweet. ok , now how can I have the args function work? | 20:02 |
| cityOfLights | line 19 | 20:02 |
| crashanddie | cityOfLights: that'll be $20 by paypal | 20:03 |
| cityOfLights | but but | 20:03 |
| cityOfLights | I am realising it under GL | 20:03 |
| cityOfLights | releasing | 20:03 |
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| * crashanddie goes back to watching dr house | 20:04 | |
| cityOfLights | thanks crashanddie | 20:04 |
| Shapeshifter | cityOfLights: you might wanna ask #bash. there's an army of wizards over there. | 20:05 |
| cityOfLights | I am working on adding this to openvpn applet | 20:05 |
| cityOfLights | thanks | 20:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: DrHouse?? damn, yesterday there was no DrHouse here, felt pissed | 20:07 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: been catching up, hadn't seen any episodes since black hole | 20:07 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: watching the one where the crane fell down and all | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm... I guess I need to do a little p2p leeching | 20:08 |
| crashanddie | no you don't | 20:08 |
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| Trewas | TomaszD: (re: the dx bicycle phone holder) it was quite trivial to "mod" it to not hit the n900's power button in portrait mode (just cut out small part of the foam), but overall it feels a bit flimsy to hold n900's weight | 20:11 |
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| Shapeshifter | does cutempc work for anyone? mpc works and all, but cutempc can't connect and instead hangs and gives "connection closed" errors and then freezes | 20:22 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: Glad you find them helpful :-) | 20:26 |
| wazd | VDVsx: boo :) | 20:26 |
| VDVsx | wazd, hey :) | 20:26 |
| wazd | VDVsx: how's it going? :) | 20:27 |
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| VDVsx | wazd, fine and you ? :D | 20:28 |
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| wazd | VDVsx: I've tested BlueMaemo recently, loaded it up, then saw "waiting for connection" dialog and then i died :D | 20:28 |
| TomaszD | Trewas, I thought of that, a trivial mod, but still flimsy, yes | 20:28 |
| lcuk | wazd, thats not a good thing did the doctor give you some tablets? | 20:29 |
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| VDVsx | wazd, well, I requested a new design for that, your fault :P | 20:29 |
| VDVsx | hihihi | 20:29 |
| wazd | VDVsx: oh | 20:29 |
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| wazd | lcuk: Doctor said that i can't conquer the universe. Pathetic slave. :D | 20:30 |
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| VDVsx | wazd, not spare time these days :( but I've plans to improve the app a bit :D | 20:30 |
| thunderfest | so my n900 should arrive any minute am I going to have trouble installing the maemo 5 sdk sine I already have my scratch set up for n810? | 20:31 |
| wazd | VDVsx: it also resets connection with my PC but that's the problem of my BT dongle I guess, it's really shitty | 20:31 |
| wutr | Hello all | 20:31 |
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| wutr | question: is it possible to set the default location for a N900 so it will automatically select the right language after a reflash? | 20:32 |
| wazd | VDVsx: other than that it looks uber-sexy :) | 20:32 |
| VDVsx | wazd, finally got a device ? or was from someone | 20:32 |
| wazd | VDVsx: well, I will have it for a while until someone will come and take it from me to Belarus :) | 20:32 |
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| VDVsx | lol | 20:33 |
| VDVsx | that's bad | 20:33 |
| * VDVsx wonders what happened to the returned devices from the summit | 20:33 | |
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| wazd | VDVsx: well, that won't happen very soon so I'm trying to do as much as possible :) | 20:34 |
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| wazd | VDVsx: the only complains I have bout it is its thickness and no portrait mode for media player :) Otherwise it's a really awesome device | 20:36 |
| VDVsx | wazd, I've a spare one now, but can't give it :( | 20:36 |
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| wazd | VDVsx: well, andrewFBlack was asking Quim to give his DDP device to me | 20:36 |
| RST38h | wazd: You finally got an N900? | 20:37 |
| VDVsx | wazd, with a data plan is the best device in the market for my needs :D | 20:37 |
| wazd | VDVsx: but I guess the result looks like all the other attempts :D | 20:37 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, sort of :) | 20:37 |
| VDVsx | yeah, I asked the same | 20:37 |
| RST38h | wazd: I will give you my proto, if Quim approves | 20:37 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Will save both of us trouble of mailing it around | 20:37 |
| PhonicUK | hey all | 20:37 |
| PhonicUK | anyone drawing mohammed tomorrow? | 20:37 |
| wazd | RST38h: I'm "carring" it around until Vlad come and get it :) | 20:38 |
| wazd | VDVsx: yeah, that sucks that Russia has such an awful data plans | 20:38 |
| RST38h | wazd: When he comes, let us meet somewhere | 20:39 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Awful? Really? :) | 20:39 |
| RST38h | wazd <== spoiled | 20:39 |
| wazd | VDVsx: no unlim, about $0.25/Mb | 20:39 |
| VDVsx | wow, much worst in .pt | 20:39 |
| RST38h | wazd: $0.14/MB | 20:39 |
| RST38h | wazd: And there is unlim | 20:39 |
| wazd | RST38h: for like 200 bucks? nothanks :D | 20:40 |
| RST38h | wazd: Unless you are using Megafon of course, but then you are your own enemy | 20:40 |
| RST38h | wazd: around $30 | 20:40 |
| RST38h | A moment | 20:40 |
| wazd | RST38h: I am :( | 20:40 |
| RST38h | wazd: Then do not complain | 20:40 |
| VDVsx | I think here in .fi is cheap, not sure | 20:40 |
| VDVsx | in .pt is also around 30€ | 20:40 |
| VDVsx | unlim | 20:40 |
| RST38h | .fi is pretty chip cell-wise | 20:40 |
| RST38h | cheap (mhm) | 20:40 |
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| wazd | VDVsx: in .fi you can have 400kb/s unlim for e15 I recall | 20:41 |
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| RST38h | wazd: http://www.mts.ru/tariffs/inet/connect_2/ | 20:42 |
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| VDVsx | I think I've 1mb unlimited, dunno how much it costs :D | 20:43 |
| RST38h | wazd: Carefully check the options. | 20:43 |
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| wazd | VDVsx: yeah, nokia pays :D | 20:43 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I don't understand it actually | 20:45 |
| wazd | RST38h: messages like these clearly shows to me that I'm gonna be raped | 20:46 |
| RST38h | wazd: google for it | 20:46 |
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| RST38h | wazd: afaik, the catch is the speed limitation | 20:47 |
| wazd | RST38h: and QoS | 20:47 |
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| RST38h | wazd: 128kbaud | 20:47 |
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| RST38h | wazd: I doubt you can talk of "QoS" applied to cellular data connections :) | 20:48 |
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| wazd | RST38h: not sure if you'll ever get even 128kb | 20:48 |
| RST38h | wazd: Same shitty QoS for everyone. But they basically limit the speed to eGPRS | 20:48 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: GPRS has a QoS - it's guaranteed at no worse than 2s rtt :) | 20:48 |
| thunderfest | really though does any one have both maemo 4 and 5 sdks installed on one machine without problem? | 20:49 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, at least they can guarantee that you won't be kicked if the tower is overloaded | 20:49 |
| wazd | RST38h: cause I usually can't get a connection from my country for hours | 20:49 |
| RST38h | wazd: Surprisingly, I am having more problems with misconfigured 3G towers than with the plain old 2.5G | 20:49 |
| wazd | RST38h: and my country is like in 12km from moscow | 20:49 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Well, it mainly depends how far you are from the nearest big road | 20:50 |
| wazd | RST38h: I'm in 5km from Zheleznodorozhny :) | 20:51 |
| wazd | RST38h: that's not a megapolis of course, but still :) | 20:51 |
| wazd | RST38h: I used Beeline 3.5G connection in SPB btw and it worked pretty fast | 20:52 |
| RST38h | wazd: Do people get decent reception with Beeline/MTS there? | 20:53 |
| E0x | what i need know ( lib, lenguage ) for do some workspace indicator ( something that popup tell you the name/number of the current workspace ) anyidea ? | 20:53 |
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| RST38h | wazd: (because there is no way I am gonna trust Megafon) | 20:53 |
| wazd | RST38h: phone works well, gprs traffic gets kicked | 20:53 |
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| mikki-kun | hm... is easydeb a package which emulates a running debian on the n900? | 20:53 |
| RST38h | wazd: weird shit...never had that happen | 20:54 |
| RST38h | wazd: MTS worked the whole way to the .BY border, also works 100+km from MSK, in the middle of nowhere (just barely though) | 20:54 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, I guess I'll need to switch the carreer one day | 20:55 |
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| wazd | *carrier | 20:56 |
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| BCMM | it says "Unable to receive or send new messages. Device storage full. Remove data to free memory." on my n900 | 21:00 |
| BCMM | (in a popup) | 21:00 |
| BCMM | i don't know which memory it means | 21:00 |
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| PhonicUK | BCMM, probably the root file system | 21:01 |
| PhonicUK | do you have conky installed? | 21:01 |
| BCMM | PhonicUK: 2.2M free, according to df -h | 21:02 |
| BCMM | PhonicUK: no, what is conky? | 21:02 |
| PhonicUK | yah thats too low | 21:02 |
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| BCMM | PhonicUK: ah | 21:02 |
| PhonicUK | system monitor tool | 21:02 |
| BCMM | PhonicUK: which app causes those popups? what kind of message is it talking about? | 21:02 |
| PhonicUK | do you have gainroot? | 21:02 |
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| BCMM | yeah | 21:02 |
| PhonicUK | do this as root: | 21:02 |
| PhonicUK | rm /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb | 21:03 |
| PhonicUK | that should gain you some more space | 21:03 |
| Disconnect | apt-get clean does the same thing | 21:03 |
| BCMM | PhonicUK: what is kept there? downloaded .debs, in case of reinstall? | 21:03 |
| Disconnect | and you can sudo that w/o having to gainroot | 21:03 |
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| PhonicUK | and install conky, its really useful | 21:03 |
| PhonicUK | ah ok, disconnect | 21:04 |
| BCMM | i'll have a look at conky | 21:04 |
| BCMM | link? | 21:04 |
| PhonicUK | BCMM, the files there is stuff the package manager has downloaded | 21:04 |
| Disconnect | BCMM: debs that are downloaded and currently installed - if you upgrade, the old one is deleted. if you uninstall, it gets deleted. (not live, but when autoclean runs. istr it gets run on boot and some other stuff) | 21:04 |
| Disconnect | er, some other times i mean | 21:04 |
| PhonicUK | BCMM, conky is in the app manager | 21:04 |
| BCMM | why does it keep them around then? | 21:04 |
| Disconnect | BCMM: on a desktop, .. um. i dunno. i never saw the point. i so rarely do reinstalls.. | 21:05 |
| Disconnect | its a standard apt thing | 21:05 |
| thunderfest | mikki-kun: sorry I space out while typing that last sentence...basically easy-deb turns executable python files into installable deb files | 21:05 |
| BCMM | 26.9M now | 21:06 |
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| PhonicUK | tada | 21:06 |
| BCMM | PhonicUK, Disconnect: thanks | 21:06 |
| PhonicUK | np | 21:06 |
| PhonicUK | im tired, ran for my bus :s | 21:06 |
| BCMM | now, any idea which application caused that error, and what sort of message is waiting for me? | 21:06 |
| mikki-kun | no problem ;) hm... i'll giver it a deeper look then | 21:06 |
| BCMM | i mean, it can't be a 2.5MB SMS | 21:06 |
| PhonicUK | it was pulling away from one stop, so i beat it to the next | 21:06 |
| PhonicUK | BCMM, probably a cache in some app | 21:07 |
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| PhonicUK | theres a set of scripts somewhere that shows you how much space on the rootfs each package is using | 21:07 |
| BCMM | i feel like such a newbie | 21:08 |
| BCMM | i mean, i've used linux for years, but never really got familiar with *debian* | 21:08 |
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| PhonicUK | lol | 21:08 |
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| PhonicUK | i was always a gentoo man myself | 21:09 |
| BCMM | and i know that from a normal perspective, it probably makes more sense than gentoo | 21:09 |
| PhonicUK | /var/portage/distfiles | 21:09 |
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| BCMM | but i just had to ask how to delete distfiles... | 21:09 |
| BCMM | heh | 21:09 |
| PhonicUK | i read your mind | 21:10 |
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| BCMM | i should get more familar with debian; always seeing broken ubuntu boxen | 21:10 |
| mintux | my root was full I remove some application but only 2.3mb released and made free. why ? how can install my software on opt ?it's automatically installed on root | 21:11 |
| mintux | I removed themes | 21:11 |
| mintux | python | 21:12 |
| mintux | that it said is 27mb but only 2.3 mb released | 21:12 |
| PhonicUK | mintux, run the command i told BCMM to run | 21:12 |
| PhonicUK | rm /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb | 21:13 |
| PhonicUK | as root | 21:13 |
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| BCMM | i'd actually noticed that that directory was huge, but assumed it was necessary | 21:13 |
| BCMM | also, they should really have that automatically clean itself | 21:13 |
| Disconnect | BCMM: it does, old uninstalled packages are removed. live packages aren't. for reasons that, as i said, escape me.. | 21:14 |
| thunderfest | thats what apt-get clean does | 21:14 |
| Disconnect | PhonicUK: srsly its safe to just use apt-get clean. and no need for gainroot or anything, since user can sudo apt-get | 21:14 |
| Disconnect | rather safer i mean | 21:15 |
| mintux | PhonicUK: there is no package on that path | 21:15 |
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| mintux | disconnect I did apt-get auto remove auto-clean delete themes some softwares and cache not any change I only 2.3 mb free | 21:17 |
| Disconnect | try apt-get clean. not auto-clean. | 21:18 |
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| Disconnect | thats why i said "apt-get clean" and didn't say "apt-get auto-clean" | 21:18 |
| Disconnect | http://linux.die.net/man/8/apt-get | 21:19 |
| Disconnect | "Like clean, autoclean clears out the local repository of retrieved package files. The difference is that it only removes package files that can no longer be downloaded, and are largely useless. This allows a cache to be maintained over a long period without it growing out of control." | 21:19 |
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| * pupnik worries when to buy a spare n900 just in case the world goes all to hell | 21:21 | |
| thunderfest | ha my wife and I were talking about that just a few hours ago | 21:22 |
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| thunderfest | but I still don't have a first n900 | 21:22 |
| thunderfest | but it gets delivered today should be here any minute | 21:23 |
| thunderfest | I'm quite excited | 21:23 |
| pupnik | congratulations! | 21:23 |
| pupnik | i've almost worn through one | 21:24 |
| pupnik | clean your fingers before using. and don't blast the speakers all day. | 21:24 |
| mikki-kun | thunderfest: gratz then and happy configuring :) the n900 is one hell of a monster :D | 21:24 |
| thunderfest | so after an apocalypse do you think the fm transmitter would prove useful? | 21:25 |
| mintux | thunderfest: I bought yesterday | 21:25 |
| thunderfest | I've been using the n810 for a few years now | 21:25 |
| thunderfest | I'm happy to finally upgrade | 21:25 |
| SpeedEvil | thunderfest: the range is 4-5m, so probably not. | 21:26 |
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| mintux | thunderfest: are you linux user? | 21:26 |
| thunderfest | minutx: of course | 21:26 |
| * RST38h cackles while cleaning N900 with the ultimate cleaning agent | 21:26 | |
| thunderfest | and quite a good programmer my wife and I are hoping to crank out some games for you guys | 21:27 |
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| wutr | I can't edit the "phonenumber" labels in the contact list, right? | 21:29 |
| MohammadAG | Not on the N900 | 21:31 |
| thunderfest | wutr: I saw some folks on talk whining about that so maybe not | 21:31 |
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| wutr | haha | 21:33 |
| thunderfest | Has anyone had any luck installing both the maemo 4 and 5 SDK scratchbox setups on one development machine | 21:33 |
| wutr | well, I just synced my e65 with the N900 and I noticed the nice label titles I made are gone, so yeah, I miss it | 21:34 |
| wutr | but I'll figure something out :)! | 21:34 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 21:35 |
| thunderfest | I want to get started deving for the n900 as soon as it comes ... but I'm wondering if I might need to removed the scratchbox I have already setup for my n810 I have a feeling they are going to conflict | 21:36 |
| thunderfest | I'm sorry to keep spaming this question here but no one has responded to it yet | 21:36 |
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| thunderfest | I guess I'll have to make a forum post and wait around for a response...or just try it and the hope that I can fix things and that they will not get to tangled | 21:37 |
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| wutr | you could try it on a virtual machine first? | 21:38 |
| thunderfest | excellent suggestion! | 21:39 |
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| wutr | :D | 21:40 |
| thunderfest | but that will sort of take a little while | 21:40 |
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| thunderfest | I was really hoping some had already tried and could just give me a heads up about where there might be issues | 21:41 |
| thunderfest | but I guess not | 21:41 |
| wutr | true, but if it's likely to get tangled it would take way longer to fix it again or to set it up all over | 21:41 |
| wutr | haha maybe.. without noticing | 21:41 |
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| thunderfest | did all the n810 devs just give up on the device once they got n900s | 21:42 |
| neo | test 123 | 21:42 |
| johnsq | they didn't get a n900, its a step backward | 21:42 |
| thunderfest | why do you say that? | 21:42 |
| thunderfest | because of all the plastic? | 21:43 |
| johnsq | i see it so. i have a n810 and didn't get a n900. | 21:43 |
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| wutr | thunderfest, you say you are quite a good developer. can you maybe give me some advice on where to start? I have some basic (visual) c# skills and I decided to switch to c++ (the standard (ansi?), not visual for now) | 21:44 |
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| mintux | ukeyboard doesn't install it siad hildon-im-fkb >= 3.9.61-1 needs | 21:44 |
| thunderfest | well if you don't have a n900 how can you be sure it really is a step back..perhaps it would grow on you if you had it? | 21:44 |
| thunderfest | what sort of advice are you looking for? | 21:45 |
| thunderfest | c++ is IMHO definitely the way to go | 21:45 |
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| thunderfest | the c++ programming language by bjarne stroustrup is kinda the standard reference for the language | 21:46 |
| thunderfest | but it can be pretty dense at times | 21:46 |
| thunderfest | wutr are you wanting to dev for the n900 or just in general? | 21:47 |
| wutr | I figured... Well, as you might expect from someone who comes from C# and windows forms + visual studio, I'd like to create visual applications (also for N900) | 21:47 |
| thunderfest | well in that case I would recommend trying your hand at python first before jumping into c++ | 21:49 |
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| wutr | allright.. why exactly? | 21:50 |
| thunderfest | python is pretty nice as it lets you think about problems instead of memory management. | 21:50 |
| thunderfest | gui's are pretty micky mouse to get going | 21:50 |
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| mintux | I need hildon-im-fkb (>= 3.9.61-1) does any body know how can I find it | 21:51 |
| mintux | MohammadAG: do you now anything about ^ | 21:51 |
| wutr | yay! I thought about that too, but I think I might have done that part already with C# | 21:51 |
| thunderfest | and it runs fast enough as long as the libraries your calling are fast | 21:52 |
| b0unc3 | hey guys, is there any way (with dbus?) to get the current phone mode (2G,3G...) ? | 21:52 |
| tybollt_ | argh | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG | mintux, ukeyboard? PR1.2 | 21:53 |
| mintux | MohammadAG: yes I need it | 21:53 |
| mintux | but it said it need that package | 21:53 |
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| thunderfest | if you really want to start with c++ I'd suggest ignoring gtk at first and instead using something like SDL | 21:53 |
| mintux | but the previous version installed | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG | wait for PR1.2 :) | 21:55 |
| wutr | big difference in difficulty? | 21:55 |
| mintux | MohammadAG: until when ? | 21:55 |
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| thunderfest | SDL make it pretty dead simple to create a window...but past that there is no widgets or anything...but you can pretty quickly the lazy foo tutorials | 21:55 |
| mintux | MohammadAG: so after that do I have persian layout for my keyboard? | 21:55 |
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| MohammadAG | or install http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/ukeyboard/2.2-4/ | 21:56 |
| wutr | but widgets is kind of what modern smartphones are about in daily use | 21:57 |
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| wutr | is / are / whatever | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG | I suppose | 21:57 |
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| thunderfest | SDL is pretty game dev oriented so it's more fun to play with than GTK | 21:58 |
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| johnsq | the advantage of SDL is, that is very lowlevel = fast, and cross platform. | 21:58 |
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| thunderfest | and it is pretty easy to use plus quite portable...say for instance you want to turn your program into an iphone app | 21:59 |
| wutr | well I'd love to do gamedeveloping at some point, but for now that's a whole different world | 21:59 |
| wutr | go on... | 21:59 |
| thunderfest | start with a game like simon | 21:59 |
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| thunderfest | four buttons four sounds and thats pretty much it | 22:00 |
| mintux | how to clean my tmp ? | 22:00 |
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| mintux | I want to download something but it said you don't have enough room | 22:00 |
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| wutr | I like that advice :) | 22:01 |
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| wutr | but, gtk or qt for widgets right? | 22:01 |
| thunderfest | the best advice is just to code and then keep coding, practice its the only way to get better | 22:02 |
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| wutr | or actually some sort of window / desktop like development | 22:02 |
| johnsq | wutr: depends if you need menus and so on. if you need only something in a rectangle displayed, gtk or qt or overkill, if you need menus than sdl is a pain. | 22:02 |
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| wutr | but it's hard to continue when you keep on googling stuff that seems so simple | 22:02 |
| wutr | ah | 22:03 |
| thunderfest | yeah fro lots of gadgets gkt or qt and really you should pry pick qt since it is own by nokia | 22:03 |
| thunderfest | well thats the thing just googling and reading through simple things isn't going to make you any better you just have to code yourself | 22:04 |
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| wutr | that actually makes a lot of sense | 22:06 |
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| wutr69 | mIRC beta... | 22:06 |
| wutr69 | wow it even messed up my nickname | 22:07 |
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| wutr69 | thunderfest: can you repeat the last you said? | 22:09 |
| thunderfest | well thats the thing just googling and reading through simple things isn't going to make you any better you just have to code yourself | 22:09 |
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| wutr69 | ok didn't miss that, maybe something else then.. | 22:12 |
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| kimitake | hi, I have tried OBS for fremantl, but build.obs.maemo.org requires account, how can I create it? | 22:18 |
| thunderfest | oh I can see the UPS man pulling down my block its time to get my n900 yeah! | 22:18 |
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| Stskeeps | ups wagon catches fire, you loose | 22:19 |
| lcuk | awwww crap | 22:20 |
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| lcuk | i got rachel stevens pregnant | 22:20 |
| thunderfest | oh he passed my house I hope he's coming back! | 22:20 |
| lpotter | heh | 22:21 |
| wutr69 | hah | 22:21 |
| lpotter | he's delivering it to some old lady down the street | 22:21 |
| thunderfest | hahaha so she can get it to work and can flame the fourms | 22:21 |
| thunderfest | can't* | 22:22 |
| lpotter | nope. she wont be home, so they leave it on the doorstep. and which the mailman will take it | 22:22 |
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| thunderfest | oh shit here he comes | 22:27 |
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| lpotter | his GPS device just ran him into a ditch | 22:28 |
| trumee | is it possible to display the N900 screen on computer | 22:28 |
| lcuk | all the packages smashed on the floor | 22:28 |
| lcuk | out of the corner of your eye, you see a glint of sunlight | 22:29 |
| trumee | i dont have big TV. want to use sixaxis controller to play on computer monitor | 22:29 |
| lcuk | moving the long grass out of the way you find the n900 | 22:29 |
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| lcuk | trumee, use n900 | 22:29 |
| johnsq | trumee: then n900 has tv-out | 22:29 |
| trumee | johnsq: dont have a TV :( | 22:30 |
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| trumee | lcuk: N900 screen is a bit small | 22:30 |
| Kegetys | my "computer monitor" has a composite input so it works as long as you have that ;) | 22:30 |
| trumee | also sixaxis needs a kernel flash. does that void the warranty | 22:31 |
| lcuk | trumee, mm? | 22:31 |
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| lcuk | you can plug into big screen | 22:31 |
| lcuk | or just use n900 as remote | 22:31 |
| lcuk | with odx :D | 22:31 |
| trumee | Kegetys: i have only analog and dvi input | 22:31 |
| lcuk | odz even | 22:31 |
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| trumee | lcuk, there is nothing like video over usb? | 22:32 |
| Kegetys | why not just use the computer if you have one (I assume you do if you have a monitor as well) | 22:33 |
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| Kegetys | its not like maemo has alot of exclusive games ;) | 22:33 |
| lcuk | trumee, no, but if you tape your n900 to glasses you get an uber VR display (and some minor headaches) | 22:33 |
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| trumee | lcuk: crazy!! | 22:34 |
| trumee | Kegetys: thats a thought | 22:35 |
| thunderfest | unboxing is so much fun! | 22:35 |
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| trumee | thunderfest: what are you unboxing? | 22:36 |
| thunderfest | I just got a n900 | 22:36 |
| kdubois | what is the widget called where the dialog pops up from the bottom? | 22:36 |
| trumee | is there any way to record drnoksnes video | 22:36 |
| lcuk | :D thunderfest | 22:37 |
| Shapeshifter | kdubois: you mean a dialog. it's just called a dialog. e.g. a QDialog if it's Qt. | 22:37 |
| kdubois | thanks Shapeshifter | 22:37 |
| trumee | something like recordmydesktop | 22:37 |
| Shapeshifter | kdubois: some other things also pop up from the bottom. e.g. comboboxes | 22:37 |
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| Disconnect | Shapeshifter: there's a yo-momma joke in there somewhere ;) | 22:38 |
| kdubois | right, i just want the 'base' pop up from the bottom thing. i tried a selector, didnt do what i needed though | 22:38 |
| dmj726 | google just opened vp8 | 22:38 |
| Shapeshifter | Disconnect: :P | 22:39 |
| dmj726 | thunderfest: cool | 22:39 |
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| thunderfest | is there a trick to getting the back cover off? | 22:42 |
| Disconnect | thunderfest: couple drinks, maybe a movie | 22:42 |
| Kegetys | brute force | 22:42 |
| Disconnect | oh wait i'm still thinking of Shapeshifter's mom ;) | 22:42 |
| thunderfest | ha | 22:42 |
| Disconnect | just stick your thumbnail in the slot and pry. like shapeshifter's dad ;) | 22:43 |
| Shapeshifter | xD | 22:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://boards.4chan.org/b/res/229391665 - sort of on-topic (NOT WORKSAFE) | 22:50 |
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| mikhas | thunderfest, in case you didnt break it yet: use a credit card | 22:58 |
| mikhas | and congrats on your new n900, have fun =) | 22:58 |
| lcuk | thunderfest, easiest of all - stylus, extract from device, pop into fingernail slot and twist a tiny bit :) | 22:58 |
| lcuk | comes right off | 22:58 |
| * lcuk has no fingernails so has never tried | 22:59 | |
| lcuk | any other way | 22:59 |
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| lcuk | about 2inches in :D | 22:59 |
| * Arkenoi just upgraded to -32 kernel, no issues with "stuck at high frequency" so far | 22:59 | |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: You lost them in a horrific bear attack? | 22:59 |
| lcuk | if bears live in helsinki then perhaps | 23:00 |
| lcuk | but no, i bite my nails | 23:00 |
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| trumee | damn lost my vkbd. | 23:05 |
| * trumee going for a reboo | 23:06 | |
| * trumee *t | 23:06 | |
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| MohammadAG | ~ping | 23:07 |
| infobot | ~pong | 23:07 |
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| trumee | nope rebooting didnt help, still no vkbd :( | 23:12 |
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| t_s_o | interesting, not much traffic on the forum about webm. | 23:17 |
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| Stskeeps | wem? | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | webm? | 23:18 |
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| johnsq | Stskeeps: vp8 opensource released | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | well start a thread.. | 23:18 |
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| janneg | even with ARM and TI support, without intel or nokia though | 23:22 |
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| tripzero | trumee, try adding the devel-extra's repo, removing and reinstalling the vkbd extra languages package | 23:22 |
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| janneg | their library has even arm/neon optimized assembler | 23:22 |
| tripzero | trumee, also try disabling/reenabling the vkbd in settings | 23:23 |
| tripzero | i had to mess around with a bunch of stuff to get mine to work again | 23:23 |
| janneg | otoh the decoder is slower than ffmpeg h264 decoder on x86_64 and the visiul quality is somewhere between xvid and vc1 | 23:24 |
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| summel | somebody has the link ready for the maemo ui psd thingy? :o | 23:25 |
| tripzero | janneg, but maybe it's existance will scare h264 into being completely royalty free | 23:25 |
| janneg | wishful thinking | 23:25 |
| janneg | there's probably a significant number of h264 patents which applies to vp8 | 23:26 |
| summel | :o found it :) | 23:26 |
| tripzero | and possibly vice-versa | 23:26 |
| trumee | tripzero: enabling/disabling vkbd didn't help. | 23:26 |
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| tripzero | trumee: try installing/reinstalling the extra languages pack for the keyboard | 23:26 |
| tripzero | i forget the package name | 23:26 |
| trumee | tripzero: ok | 23:27 |
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| trumee | tripzero: ukeyboard? | 23:27 |
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| tripzero | sounds close | 23:27 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: saw my comment on the thread? | 23:28 |
| javispedro | yep | 23:28 |
| javispedro | we'll see what gets out of this | 23:29 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. | 23:29 |
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| LuciusMare | Hi | 23:31 |
| LuciusMare | there are several mmcblk files in /dev, which one is the card? | 23:31 |
| MohammadAG | N900? | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG | /dev/mmcblk1 | 23:33 |
| MohammadAG | p1 for partition 1 | 23:33 |
| LuciusMare | oh | 23:33 |
| LuciusMare | and what are the others? Is there a specification for this? | 23:33 |
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| thunderfest_ | where can I set it to stop clicking everytime I touch the screen | 23:34 |
| SpeedEvil | thunderfest_: settings -> input I think | 23:34 |
| ManoftheSea | yep. It's the motor, isn't it? | 23:36 |
| thunderfest_ | I only have settings -> text input ... no input | 23:36 |
| thunderfest_ | what the latest firmware version | 23:37 |
| javispedro | the one you have | 23:37 |
| javispedro | also, | 23:37 |
| javispedro | settings -> display | 23:37 |
| LuciusMare | uh... | 23:38 |
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| LuciusMare | i put my card in, mounted, /media/mmc1/ empty, i fscked it, and put the card out, and then, the fs acts like the card is in, all the files are there | 23:39 |
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| LuciusMare | *embrassed* | 23:40 |
| LuciusMare | my MyDocs looks suspiciously simmiliar to my card, okay? | 23:40 |
| thunderfest_ | alright I went to settings-> display and turned off "touch screen vibration" but I'm still hearing a small click sound I touch the screen | 23:41 |
| SpeedEvil | thunderfest_: I think there is a seperate click setting | 23:42 |
| javispedro | now go to settings -> profile | 23:42 |
| javispedro | s | 23:42 |
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| LuciusMare | MohammadAG: that seems to be mydocs for me | 23:42 |
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| thunderfest_ | ok I see thank javispedro | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | /dev/mmcblk0p1 is MyDocs, blk1p1 is the MMC | 23:43 |
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| LuciusMare | *sigh*, I *am* stupid. Thank you | 23:44 |
| jacekowski | we know | 23:45 |
| jacekowski | but at least you know as well | 23:45 |
| mintux | MohammadAG: I could not success to install that package . each time it needs a package and some packages installed and some not . I leave it | 23:45 |
| LuciusMare | : | 23:45 |
| LuciusMare | :) | 23:45 |
| Appiah | If I want to port a gtk application but it requries a much recent version of gtk+ then thats in extra-devel. What would be the best approach? | 23:45 |
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| Appiah | Someone said something about hildon patches but didnt explain | 23:46 |
| jacekowski | Appiah: well, see if it compiles | 23:46 |
| lcuk | Appiah, find out what it needs and why | 23:46 |
| MohammadAG | mintux, disable -devel and install it, then enable -devel if you really want it | 23:46 |
| Appiah | it does not , says i require 2.16 and maemo got 2.14 | 23:46 |
| jacekowski | Appiah: and if it doesn't fix it | 23:46 |
| lcuk | there is usually some hildonisation required anyway | 23:46 |
| jacekowski | Appiah: well, that's 1st thing to fix | 23:46 |
| mintux | MohammadAG: hmm so I triy again | 23:46 |
| lcuk | just change it to 14 and see if it builds | 23:46 |
| jacekowski | Appiah: change requred version to 2.14 | 23:46 |
| Appiah | oh | 23:46 |
| lcuk | it *might* be using some function new to the build | 23:47 |
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| Appiah | but whats with the hildonpatches? i did not get that | 23:47 |
| lcuk | but oftentimes apps dont bother | 23:47 |
| jacekowski | that's not important at the moment | 23:47 |
| pupnik | javispedro: erm, those doom timedemos time-out exactly the same at 600mhz :/ -- i had to compile time command and make a test loop | 23:47 |
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| lcuk | hildon is a set of functions and extra widgets that sit in better with tablet UX. just try native gtk first and get that working | 23:47 |
| pupnik | i was sure doom used system time to get the realtks | 23:48 |
| lcuk | then afterwards you can decide to change and alter it to be hildonised | 23:48 |
| Appiah | alright | 23:48 |
| javispedro | pupnik: this is dos we're talking about... | 23:48 |
| Appiah | thanks , I'll see what I can do | 23:48 |
| pupnik | well i was wrong. now i am getting real numbers, i hope. need to repeat the test a few times | 23:48 |
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| lcuk | pupnik, doom time demos :D | 23:49 |
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| pupnik | it took me a couple of hours just to write this script | 23:50 |
| lcuk | eep | 23:51 |
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| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, do you know german? | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | a little ;-D | 23:58 |
| RST38h | "A young mother died after doctors repeatedly failed to spot a six-inch long toilet brush handle embedded in her buttock" | 23:59 |
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