| crashanddie | adds ulk? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| crashanddie | in practuice? | 00:00 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: have you been drinking? | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil | bulk | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil | practice | 00:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | No. I have a headache, and this keyboard isn't great. | 00:00 |
| ds3 | SpeedEvil: hmmm what kind of usage are you envisioning for a compass on there? | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I have my eyses whit. | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil | eyes shut | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil | ds3: augmented reality | 00:00 |
| ds3 | SpeedEvil: for that purpose, the compass can be mounted anywhere, including under a hat | 00:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | ds3: For a lot of the stuff, you need to know the orientation of the n900 | 00:01 |
| SpeedEvil | also - personally - I want it for adding a orientaiton to photos | 00:01 |
| mikki-kun | lcuk: the opsat is the device on the arm http://www.the-nextlevel.com/features/events/pandora-tomorrow-world-premiere/sam-fisher.jpg | 00:02 |
| MohammadAG | got around the docpurge problem :D | 00:02 |
| MohammadAG | now to recompile all packages so that they install manual pages :P | 00:02 |
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| MohammadAG | or just make a deb with Ubuntu man pages | 00:03 |
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| mikki-kun | lcuk: i know nothing that spectacular, but maybe for some costume that would be badass to have your N900 working as an opsat :D but for me it's just the challenge i am up to | 00:03 |
| ds3 | SpeedEvil: eh? how so? | 00:04 |
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| ds3 | I am looking at this for orienteering (Map related stuff) | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ds3: geotag has xyz | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ds3: It does not have pointing | 00:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | (though of cours ewith the accel, if there is a celestial body in vieew, you can derive orientation | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: toldya docpurge is kinda brainfuck | 00:05 |
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| ds3 | SpeedEvil: the compass is to augment geotagging | 00:06 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 is missing roundabout 500 *-doc pkgs | 00:06 | |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, it can purge all it wants | 00:06 |
| ds3 | I am thinking throwing together something so I can match up features on a topo map with what I am seeing | 00:06 |
| MohammadAG | it will purge an empty dir | 00:06 |
| MohammadAG | XD | 00:06 |
| ds3 | so if I can sight in a feature, I have a rough pie shaped peice centered at my GPS location | 00:07 |
| Kegetys | hmm, Gish (in that humble indie games bundle) is promised to go open source soon, I hope someone ports it to N900 ;) | 00:07 |
| ds3 | and if I can read the angle of my sighting, I can get a rough elevation estimate | 00:07 |
| SpeedEvil | ds3: Are you aware of srtm? | 00:07 |
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| ds3 | SpeedEvil: no | 00:08 |
| MohammadAG | ~ping | 00:08 |
| infobot | ~pong | 00:08 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRTM | 00:08 |
| SpeedEvil | ~90m resolution digital heightfield over the glove - 30m over america | 00:09 |
| SpeedEvil | the USA that is | 00:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | Glove | 00:09 |
| ds3 | and ? not sure how this relates | 00:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Globe | 00:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | ds3: Digital heightfield - map to horizon | 00:09 |
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| ds3 | SpeedEvil: sounds complicated... I was hoping to dice up a scanned USGS topo map | 00:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | Finding the horizon from a lat/lon pointfield is quite easy. | 00:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also - wander over to #osm over on irc.oftc.net | 00:12 |
| MohammadAG | bah, USB networking isn't working | 00:12 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC there are some nice heightfield datasets of the USA that are much more accurate than one every 30m | 00:13 |
| ds3 | it is still more complex then grabbing a scanned USGS topo map | 00:13 |
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| ds3 | that data is basically a super accurate version of the USGS DEM data | 00:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | I don't see how you're going to extract hte heightfield from a scanned map | 00:16 |
| ds3 | I don't... it is a topo map and that is a manual process | 00:16 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 00:16 |
| ds3 | this is a learning process for navigation, not an attempt at automated feature location | 00:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | I was assuming you wanted it automagic. | 00:17 |
| ds3 | don't have the skills or time to do that | 00:17 |
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| ds3 | so for what I want, a electronic compass that talks back via bluetooth is sufficient | 00:18 |
| ds3 | the N900's main goal is to be usable in sunlight | 00:18 |
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| luke-jr | ds3: that's easy, just use a reflective display :) | 00:23 |
| luke-jr | like the GameBoy Color had | 00:23 |
| ds3 | luke-jr: got a source for them cheap? :D | 00:23 |
| luke-jr | dunno | 00:23 |
| luke-jr | the problem with them is you can't use a backlight | 00:24 |
| luke-jr | so no good in the dark | 00:24 |
| luke-jr | (probably far better battery life I bet) | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hooray http://library.maemodocs.nokia.com/fremantle/index.jsp is completely fubar - unusable on microB | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | epic fail | 00:25 |
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| Noma | is there an app or a script for n900 to make the vibration go off when the phone is on a table? it's annoying when it vibrates there | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | turn phone face down | 00:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | Hmm. Revisionism. | 00:35 |
| SpeedEvil | A survey as part of a n900 owners study. | 00:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Why did you buy an N900 device? | 00:35 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: are the results up? | 00:35 |
| SpeedEvil | C) I’ve been looking forward to the first Maemo device | 00:35 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 00:36 |
| omar | where's this survey? | 00:36 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: or are you just going through the thing now? | 00:36 |
| omar | i'd like to take a gander | 00:36 |
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| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: there's a bunch of stupid stuff in there, seriously | 00:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: I'm going through it now. | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | omar: It's an invitation only survey. I got invited because I'm such a shining intellect. | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Or someone rolled a dice. | 00:37 |
| SpeedEvil | I prefer to believe the former. | 00:37 |
| omar | SpeedEvil, regardless of why you got invited i think the former is true ;) | 00:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: they thought you got too much spare time and also are easy to abuse since you accepted the big brother spyware as well | 00:38 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | also they were impressed how much you were determined to get the N900 | 00:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | Interestingly one of the features they mention as 'would you be interested in' - is iplayer/web tv | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and they planned revenge for your success on diet plan and weight loss which made them envy | 00:41 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 00:41 |
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| omar | SpeedEvil, you studied engineering? electrical? | 00:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | omar: Yes. | 00:45 |
| omar | where at? | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | omar: I have never studied it significantly formally, due to various reasons. | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Mainly health. | 00:45 |
| omar | oh | 00:45 |
| omar | lol i had health issues awhile ago caused me to fail two easy classes ;) | 00:46 |
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| crashanddie | warning kids, as omar is trying to tell us, wanking over 20 times a day is dangerous for your health and wellbeing | 00:48 |
| omar | crashanddie, how rude! actually i was fasting for ramadan and wans't getting somethign in my diet.. also have a genetic condition called XLH | 00:49 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: What about the change in summer/winter time? | 00:49 |
| ds3 | for that, there is always a B&W LCD | 00:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie is a clear expect on the subject | 00:50 |
| Shapeshifter | mh. any clues what opera uses for it's gui? it's been qt on the desktop for a long time (and exclusively until recently) but does this mobile opera also use qt? | 00:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/expect/expert | 00:50 |
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| MohammadAG | X-Fade, any problems with the repos? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52421 | 00:50 |
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| Shapeshifter | animations are very fluid compared to usual maemo gtk stuff. similar or at least as good as the hyperui demo | 00:50 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I was a professional wanker during my student eyars | 00:52 |
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| omar | so now your libido crashanddie'd | 00:53 |
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| ShadowJK | is this opera in the repos? | 00:54 |
| MohammadAG | it has a repo on its own | 00:54 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 00:54 |
| anselmolsm | hey guys, any news on that? http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/intelligent-date_picker/ | 00:54 |
| b-man | i'm testing it right now :) | 00:54 |
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| MohammadAG | http://get.opera.com/pub/.custom/campaign/labs/maemo/20100510/opera.install | 00:54 |
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| b-man | opera seems to have a few issues with image rendering, but everything else is nice :)] | 00:55 |
| b-man | *:) | 00:55 |
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| MohammadAG | MicroB is suffice here :) | 00:55 |
| Shapeshifter | it's incredibly smooth when scrolling | 00:55 |
| MohammadAG | it was smooth on the N97 too | 00:55 |
| b-man | indeed :) | 00:55 |
| MohammadAG | liqbase beats it though :P | 00:56 |
| Shapeshifter | and even with this kind of smoothness, they list "tearing when scrolling" on their known issues list | 00:56 |
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| Shapeshifter | I'd like to see that kind of perfectionism from nokia... | 00:56 |
| Shapeshifter | regarding ui experience | 00:56 |
| b-man | too bad it doesn't support flash yet - but i can deal with that | 00:56 |
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| MohammadAG | Shapeshifter, download liqcalendar and see how smooth that thing is | 00:56 |
| crashanddie | Nokia have a wealth of issues they need to consider | 00:56 |
| * b-man loves the on-screen portrait/vertical virtual kyeboard | 00:57 | |
| crashanddie | liqbase or Opera can focus on one single issue for a couple of weeks if necessary | 00:57 |
| Shapeshifter | MohammadAG: I wanted to install liqplayground ages ago but I always get dependency errors | 00:57 |
| crashanddie | Shapeshifter: liqbase has nearly no dependencies | 00:57 |
| b-man | hmm, a liqbase-based browser... that would be interesting ;) | 00:57 |
| MohammadAG | Shapeshifter, works for me | 00:57 |
| MohammadAG | b-man, would be epic! | 00:58 |
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| b-man | they also haven't implemented power management yet - so it will drain the battery :( | 01:00 |
| * b-man runs the acid3 test | 01:00 | |
| adnyxo | anyone here still use the n810 | 01:00 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | Stskeeps: can I make a deb from MADDE myself or not? | 01:01 |
| Macer | anybody play vultures eye? | 01:02 |
| Macer | i am going to try it out now. it says it is like diablo | 01:02 |
| Shapeshifter | b-man: I wonder what that's supposed to mean though. An idle application will never drain any power., | 01:02 |
| Macer | wonder if they are lying :) | 01:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: I find the interface of vultures eye confusing, and prefer the console version of nethack. | 01:03 |
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| b-man | Shapeshifter: i think it's because they haven't implemented JIT in their javascript engine yet | 01:04 |
| b-man | just a wild guess | 01:04 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: what kind of game is it? | 01:04 |
| Macer | i mean.. does it look like crap? | 01:04 |
| Macer | i want a good rts for my n900 | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: Think of a cross between chess and doom. | 01:05 |
| Macer | like starcraft | 01:05 |
| Shapeshifter | ah now I was able to install liqbase | 01:05 |
| johnsq | Macer: never played nethack, go and play and we don't see you the next 1/2 year | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | It is not a rts. | 01:05 |
| Macer | ok | 01:05 |
| Macer | let me try it out | 01:05 |
| Shapeshifter | whoa, what on earth is it doing with the taskmanager preview?? | 01:05 |
| Shapeshifter | it's like a window into it. no "thumbnail" | 01:05 |
| johnsq | Macer: freecraft ähm stratago | 01:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | telnet nethack.alt.org for online play | 01:07 |
| b-man | acid3 test results: Microb: 94/100 Opera Mini: 93/100 Chromium: 100/100 | 01:08 |
| b-man | so opera is just behind microb in performance | 01:08 |
| b-man | javascript-wise | 01:09 |
| * SpeedEvil questions the point of benchmarks | 01:09 | |
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| Trewas | acid3 has nothing to do with performance, though | 01:09 |
| Macer | freecraft? | 01:10 |
| Macer | that game sucks | 01:11 |
| Macer | haha | 01:11 |
| Macer | vultures eye is crappy | 01:11 |
| Macer | guess if you played nethack it is ok but to me it is garbage | 01:11 |
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| lbt | well, I've built the first maemo 'Extras' package (for i386) on the maemo.org OBS | 01:12 |
| t_s_o | huh, opera on n800? | 01:12 |
| timeless_mbp | t_s_o: ? | 01:13 |
| t_s_o | http://labs.opera.com/news/2010/05/11/ | 01:13 |
| timeless_mbp | i think they're talking about opera for the n900 | 01:13 |
| timeless_mbp | "a browser developed internally" | 01:13 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 01:13 | |
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| Macer | johnsq: ? | 01:15 |
| t_s_o | interesting that they mention browser switchboard :) | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | ~opera | 01:15 |
| infobot | from memory, opera is at http://www.opera.com or opera ends when the fat lady sings. | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | ~operamobile | 01:15 |
| b-man | rofl | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | infobot, operamobile is http://labs.opera.com/news/2010/05/11/ | 01:15 |
| infobot | okay, MohammadAG | 01:15 |
| ds3 | ~netfront | 01:15 |
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| t_s_o | well here goes nothing | 01:16 |
| timeless_mbp | so... | 01:16 |
| timeless_mbp | why can't i install opera-mobile? | 01:16 |
| MohammadAG | fremantle-1.2 | 01:16 |
| timeless_mbp | right | 01:16 |
| MohammadAG | change the sources.list/hildon-application-manager.list file | 01:17 |
| b-man | i have it in 1.1 | 01:17 |
| b-man | nvm | 01:17 |
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| MohammadAG | to be more exact change the fremantle-1.2 in the opera line in that file | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | b-man, he's running 1.2 | 01:17 |
| timeless_mbp | shouldn't i be able to set "distribution" in the ui to "fremantle" ? | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | 1.2 has some changes afaik | 01:18 |
| MohammadAG | no idea about that | 01:18 |
| MohammadAG | but after installing the 1.2 HAM package Khertan's repo didn't work too | 01:18 |
| Macer | let me try ioquake | 01:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: yeah, the ui works | 01:19 |
| MohammadAG | that's an issue? The built-in on-screen keyboard is not supported. Use the physical keyboard or the on screen keyboard included with Opera Mobile. | 01:19 |
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| Macer | guess i will try openarena | 01:20 |
| timeless_mbp | no need to muck w/ the sources.list files | 01:20 |
| Macer | it will be interesting to see how the n900 handles a 3d shooter | 01:20 |
| Macer | i guess you can connect ps3 controllers to it huh? | 01:21 |
| Macer | what i would give for an n900 madden 10 | 01:21 |
| Macer | heh | 01:21 |
| MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, tbh I hate HAM | 01:22 |
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| Lateralus | what provides tpsession.h? | 01:25 |
| timeless_mbp | well | 01:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | opera gets mobile content and pans fast | 01:25 |
| timeless_mbp | but mobile content is useless to me | 01:25 |
| * ShadowJK gets that on random sites with microb too | 01:26 | |
| timeless_mbp | really? | 01:26 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 01:26 |
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| ShadowJK | One site even pops up a "You're apparently using a cellphone. Would you like to switch to the mobile optimized site?" | 01:27 |
| timeless_mbp | so, *that's* useful | 01:28 |
| ShadowJK | And apparently if you're suspected of using a cellphone, you can't be trusted with cookie | 01:28 |
| shinkamui | hey | 01:28 |
| ShadowJK | so I get the question for every subpage and everytime i click a link on that site :D | 01:28 |
| shinkamui | who uses conversations for chatting via IM services | 01:29 |
| shinkamui | im wondering if there is a way to keep my contacts from running amuck | 01:29 |
| shinkamui | I have like 200 IM contacts, which I don't need to see when I need to make a call | 01:29 |
| shinkamui | is there a workaround for that? or is it just a matter of having to pull out the keyboard and starting to type out the name of the person Im looking for | 01:30 |
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| ShadowJK | opera mobile doesn't seem to read proxy settings.. :/ | 01:31 |
| ShadowJK | scrolling takes more effort | 01:32 |
| ShadowJK | but it's fast and nice :) | 01:32 |
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| ShadowJK | argh | 01:35 |
| ShadowJK | I keep waiting for the white flash | 01:35 |
| ShadowJK | and when it doesn't come i think it's broken/hung | 01:35 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 01:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | hey, can you guys use fastflip on news.google w/ operamobile? | 01:41 |
| timeless_mbp | for me it's virtually unusable | 01:41 |
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| ShadowJK | fastflip? | 01:42 |
| ShadowJK | what's fastflip? | 01:43 |
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| ShadowJK | scrolling long pages is very painful in opera if that's what you mean :) | 01:45 |
| Shapeshifter | liqbase does really weird stuff | 01:45 |
| * ShadowJK goes sleep | 01:48 | |
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| b-man | this day is getting screwier and screwier, apparently we just had 2 tornadoes - one about 7 miles south of where i am and another about 10 miles west in the area from 'low top thunderstorms without any lightening' - one cut a 150-foot swath destroying two barns and a house, while another hasn't caused any damage so far :P | 02:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Have you got your red shoes on? | 02:01 |
| b-man | rofl | 02:01 |
| asjWrk | b-man: where are you? | 02:02 |
| b-man | northwest ohio | 02:02 |
| * asjWrk checks the month, may, oh yeah it's midwest tornado season :) | 02:02 | |
| asjWrk | b-man: when I lived out there was we had one touch down 6 miles north of us and cut a 22 mile swatch right up through a town | 02:03 |
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| b-man | damn | 02:03 |
| asjWrk | tornado are so amazingly tight it's amazing, destroyed a house (not counting trailors here) on side of a road and doens't even damage one on the other side | 02:04 |
| b-man | i saw a thinderstorm in South Dakota that spawned an F4 tornado | 02:04 |
| lbt | night all | 02:05 |
| asjWrk | b-man: sweet :) | 02:05 |
| b-man | c ya lbt | 02:05 |
| b-man | asjWrk: the form of the storm was amazing - perfect anvil head at 70,000 feet | 02:05 |
| b-man | *76,000 | 02:05 |
| asjWrk | b-man: I love the look of the updraft side, it's amazing to see them | 02:06 |
| b-man | asjWrk: indeed :) | 02:06 |
| * b-man takes a look outside | 02:06 | |
| pwnguin | meanwhile, in kansas | 02:07 |
| pwnguin | it's nice out | 02:07 |
| pwnguin | mwuhahaha | 02:07 |
| asjWrk | pwnguin: just wait a few hours | 02:08 |
| pwnguin | tornados travel backwards now? | 02:08 |
| b-man | pwnguin: i think ohio and kansas switched places for the day lol | 02:08 |
| asjWrk | pwnguin: I'm sure another line will form from somehere, it's spring | 02:08 |
| ds3 | b-man: was it coming toward you? | 02:09 |
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| b-man | yes | 02:09 |
| b-man | me and my dad were going 90 to get away from the storm xD | 02:10 |
| b-man | *90 mph | 02:10 |
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| ds3 | hahah | 02:10 |
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| b-man | and the storm that spawned a tornado west of me is coming towards me right now lol | 02:11 |
| ds3 | wonder if running for a tornado is a valid excuse out of a speeding ticket ;) | 02:11 |
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| ds3 | s/for/from/ | 02:11 |
| infobot | ds3 meant: wonder if running from a tornado is a valid excuse out of a speeding ticket ;) | 02:11 |
| b-man | hehe | 02:11 |
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| asjWrk | what's the damn yum alternative, zipper or something? arg damn rpms | 02:11 |
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| Pillum | hey | 02:17 |
| b-man | holy crap - a whole line of rotating thunderstorms just appeared out of nowhere | 02:17 |
| Pillum | OMG!!! H0LY SH!T!!!! WHERE?!?!? | 02:18 |
| b-man | rofl | 02:18 |
| b-man | look at northewst ohio on weather.com | 02:18 |
| Pillum | is PR1.1 out yet? | 02:18 |
| Robot101 | Pillum: yes! but you're probably waiting for PR1.2, which isn't... | 02:18 |
| Pillum | no.....i meant pr1.1 !! | 02:19 |
| Pillum | i dont want to get kicked :P | 02:19 |
| Pillum | :) | 02:19 |
| ds3 | b-man: you're sounding like an episode of startrek ;) | 02:20 |
| b-man | lol | 02:20 |
| Pillum | only 300 posts left till release | 02:20 |
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| Pillum | hey walle | 02:24 |
| Pillum | you wanna clean my room? | 02:24 |
| b-man | 300^10 | 02:25 |
| asjWrk | b-man: no exactly huge...this your first year in NE-ohio? http://www.wunderground.com/radar/radblast.asp?ID=CLE®ion=b4&lat=41.04239273&lon=-81.52004242&label=Akron%2c%20OH | 02:29 |
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| b-man | asjWrk: they're small, but have fairly strong rotation ;) | 02:33 |
| b-man | or at least they did not too long ago | 02:34 |
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| b-man | here's an image of one of the tornados: http://wtol.images.worldnow.com/images/12465536_SS.jpg | 02:38 |
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| rokr1 | hello all | 02:39 |
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| jacekowski | PR 1.2 released!!! | 02:40 |
| b-man | http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=12465536 | 02:40 |
| rokr1 | i am currently using N900 to speak to u guys | 02:40 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, seriously... | 02:40 |
| jacekowski | just kidding | 02:40 |
| b-man | asjWrk ^^^ :) | 02:40 |
| jacekowski | but i was expecting more reaction | 02:40 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, even if it was released we wouldn't believe you | 02:40 |
| * SpeedEvil stabs jacekowski with a sharpened frozen beef sausage. | 02:40 | |
| MohammadAG | :P | 02:40 |
| MohammadAG | ouch | 02:41 |
| rokr1 | u will be kicked thats more reaction | 02:41 |
| jacekowski | i'm going to hack maemo.org | 02:41 |
| asjWrk | b-man: NWS issues tornado warning at the drop of a hat dude :) | 02:41 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, talk.maemo.org | 02:41 |
| jacekowski | and link to fake 1.2 image | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Hack? | 02:41 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, there are already links lol | 02:41 |
| asjWrk | b-man: it's not like mother nature decided to scour ohio off the face of the planet today ;) | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Just post it on TMO as 'OFFICIAL NOKIA RELEASE' | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | 99.9% of people would believe. | 02:41 |
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| jacekowski | MohammadAG: what? | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Oh - register as NokiaUpdate | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, here you go, a fake link http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8_PR999.1OMGWTBBQ_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | and it works | 02:42 |
| rokr1 | is there any way to send USSD | 02:42 |
| rokr1 | ? | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | ussd-widget, or pr1.2 | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | rokr1: look for ussd-widget | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/ussd-widget/ | 02:43 |
| rokr1 | USSD widget is in which repository | 02:45 |
| rokr1 | ? | 02:45 |
| rokr1 | extras or extras-testing or extras-devel | 02:45 |
| rokr1 | ? | 02:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | extras | 02:45 |
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| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: i think i'll do it just to test how many people will download it | 02:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Went to extras from devel on the 12th of april | 02:46 |
| rokr1 | okie back | 02:46 |
| rokr1 | USSD widget is in which repository | 02:46 |
| rokr1 | extras or extras-testing or extras-devel | 02:46 |
| rokr1 | ? | 02:46 |
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| asjWrk | I didn't have good luck with the ussd widget | 02:46 |
| rokr1 | how to free rootfs | 02:47 |
| rokr1 | ? | 02:47 |
| rokr1 | no space | 02:47 |
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| jacekowski | sudo rm -rf / | 02:48 |
| jacekowski | that would clear all | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | rokr1: How old are you. | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | how old is your install | 02:48 |
| shinkamui | yes | 02:48 |
| shinkamui | use that command | 02:48 |
| shinkamui | that will give you 100% rootfs back | 02:48 |
| shinkamui | ha ha ha | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | If your unstall is very old, and you installed packages a long time ago - some of them may still be using up space on the root. | 02:48 |
| rokr1 | hey guys | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - disabling extras-devel will save several megabytes | 02:49 |
| rokr1 | me | 02:49 |
| rokr1 | 22 | 02:49 |
| jacekowski | are you a sexy blonde? | 02:49 |
| tripzero | http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/60849 | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | rokr1: I meant - how old the install of the phone | 02:49 |
| shinkamui | how to free rootfs | 02:49 |
| shinkamui | lols | 02:49 |
| jacekowski | horny sexy blonde? | 02:49 |
| asjWrk | you guys are mean | 02:49 |
| jacekowski | we are just being honest | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | rokr1: Since maybe - febuary? Most installable package no longer use (much space on the rootfs | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | rokr1: also - how much do you mean by not much space? | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | shinkamui: Are you sometimes in ##electronics? | 02:50 |
| jacekowski | well, why nobody came up with idea of using unionfs | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - nvm | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | it's not you | 02:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: nokia is a non-union company. | 02:50 |
| jacekowski | any other layered fs? | 02:51 |
| jacekowski | non union layered fs | 02:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | Layered FS is way not needed. | 02:51 |
| SpeedEvil | This was solved in 1970 | 02:51 |
| rokr1 | just got N900 | 02:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | /usr is mounted after boot and contains all user programs | 02:51 |
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| rokr1 | sorry got disconnected | 02:52 |
| rokr1 | so any good news for N900....? | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=654274&postcount=3 a PS3 emulator, wonder if it moves the bootloader to /dev/null to gain enough space | 02:53 |
| rokr1 | scummvm does it run windows games | 02:54 |
| rokr1 | ? | 02:54 |
| shinkamui | YES | 02:54 |
| shinkamui | scummvm runs windows games | 02:55 |
| rokr1 | only openGL or even directX...!? | 02:55 |
| shinkamui | both! | 02:55 |
| shinkamui | I was playing crysis on my N900 the other day | 02:55 |
| shinkamui | hard wihtout a bluetooth keyboard and mouse though | 02:55 |
| rokr1 | come on now | 02:56 |
| rokr1 | lol | 02:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | rokr1: Sorry - what do you mean by good news? | 02:56 |
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| rokr1 | firmware upgrade. ...? | 02:57 |
| MohammadAG | The topic isn't a lie | 02:57 |
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| rokr1 | i am waiting for neopwn | 03:00 |
| rokr1 | for it to be available | 03:01 |
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| rokr1 | python-scapy is good | 03:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | I am waiting for USB host mode. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650333 | 03:03 |
| SpeedEvil | A fair bit of effort remains to get it to a user friendly state though. | 03:03 |
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| hawai`i | rokr1: still have to wait for a publically available image. | 03:04 |
| dotblank | is the opera browser optified? | 03:04 |
| rokr1 | maddeveloper has usb ethernet support right | 03:04 |
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| hawai`i | dotblank: Yes. | 03:05 |
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| dotblank | doersn't seem to support flash | 03:11 |
| Myrtti | as several reports have said before | 03:11 |
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| Myrtti | no, wait, was it even in the release notes? | 03:11 |
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| Myrtti | yes, yes it does! | 03:12 |
| Myrtti | or is. | 03:12 |
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| dotblank | hmm | 03:12 |
| Myrtti | "Adobe Flash and other plugins are not supported." | 03:12 |
| hawai`i | It's clearly indicated. | 03:12 |
| dotblank | k, it was just an observation.. no biggie | 03:13 |
| dotblank | I like the on screen keyboard | 03:15 |
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| tylerfixer | Hello! I have a quick question. Anyone know why when I put my n900 in silent it doesn't vibrate only when I have a conversation window open? | 03:19 |
| ManoftheSea | describe further: It doesn't vibrate when you receive text in conversation? | 03:21 |
| ManoftheSea | That's normal. | 03:21 |
| ManoftheSea | Or you get a call, and it doesn't vibrate. | 03:21 |
| ManoftheSea | Do you have vibrate checked in the profile? | 03:21 |
| tylerfixer | Except that I have "Vibrate" checked in the profiles dialog | 03:21 |
| tylerfixer | Yep | 03:21 |
| tylerfixer | Sorry, I should have said that | 03:21 |
| ManoftheSea | In an active conversation, it doesn't vibrate. | 03:22 |
| ManoftheSea | It vibrates for non-active conversations. | 03:22 |
| tylerfixer | Yeah. Is there a way to make it so it vibrates during active conversations? I leave my n900 on my desk charging with the screen on, and it's useful to have it vibrate so I know to look at the screen... | 03:23 |
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| ManoftheSea | close the chat when you're not using it? | 03:26 |
| ManoftheSea | or just keep checking it? | 03:26 |
| ManoftheSea | Is an eyeflick that hard? | 03:26 |
| tylerfixer | That's exactly what I've been doing thus far... it's just one of those things on my "n900 wishlist", my old winmo phone vibrated no matter what (even when I didn't want it to haha) | 03:26 |
| ManoftheSea | heh. | 03:27 |
| ManoftheSea | I can't help you, sorry. | 03:27 |
| tylerfixer | Well, thanks at least for taking the time to think about it :) | 03:27 |
| tylerfixer | I suppose I should check whatever mechanism stores the profiles | 03:28 |
| tylerfixer | see if there's an option in mce or something of the like | 03:28 |
| MohammadAG | 3 minutes till the importer runs :S | 03:32 |
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| MohammadAG | 1 minute, package built, epic timing | 03:34 |
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| ds3 | hmmm running out of ways to search for this -- is there an app that will let me paste in the current GPS coordinates or otherwise create a GPS coordinate referenced note? | 03:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | gpxjinni? | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | some of the geocaching apps? | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | osm2go - if you don't upload the notes | 03:38 |
| Macer | well | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Draw it on a post-it - take a geotagged pic | 03:38 |
| Macer | tried playing open arena but my guy kept going in circles | 03:38 |
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| MohammadAG | accelerometer, learn to use it | 03:42 |
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| ds3 | gpxjinni doesn't let me attach a note to it, does it? | 03:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | dunno | 03:43 |
| ds3 | all I want is for it to stuff the GPS coordinates in the paste buffer so I can paste it into another app | 03:43 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume you could creat a cache | 03:43 |
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| ds3 | in an ideal world, it would be part of xournal | 03:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | You have I hope suggested this to the author of xournal? | 03:46 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/xournal/0.4.2.1-1fremantle4/ | 03:47 |
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| Funnyfacemob | do you think that using the flashlight app can burn out the camera LEDs? | 03:50 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 03:50 |
| Funnyfacemob | they are after all only supposed to give a tiny flash, so they may be underrated | 03:50 |
| SpeedEvil | The kernel driver specifies that there are two intensities. | 03:50 |
| ds3 | no, just thinking outloud | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | The flash intensity is 6* the flashlight intensity | 03:51 |
| ds3 | I have xournal installed already | 03:51 |
| Funnyfacemob | ah ok | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - I ran it for an hour, and there was no decrease in light output measured by a light meter | 03:51 |
| Funnyfacemob | how about a constant high intensity light then? | 03:51 |
| Funnyfacemob | not possible? | 03:52 |
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| MohammadAG | Funnyface, that will burn them out | 03:52 |
| MohammadAG | 10 seconds iirc | 03:52 |
| Funnyfacemob | alright | 03:52 |
| MohammadAG | or 6 | 03:53 |
| MohammadAG | don't remember | 03:53 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, mentioned it I think | 03:53 |
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| Funnyfacemob | and my other question is, is there a way to record video with the LEDs lighting up constantly? the flashlight app and camera won't run at the same time, probably because the driver is in use | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: yes - it's not that good | 03:54 |
| Funnyfacemob | but better than nothing for sure :P | 03:55 |
| MohammadAG | lfocus | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4200558860/ | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | See that | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface | 03:55 |
| Funnyfacemob | loading | 03:55 |
| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46427 | 03:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | Basically - if someones face fills the frame - it's going to be acceptably illuminated | 03:56 |
| SpeedEvil | anything else - and not | 03:56 |
| MohammadAG | the N86's camera is brighter, does that mean the lens is wider? | 03:56 |
| MohammadAG | plus the LEDs are brighter | 03:57 |
| Funnyfacemob | looks ok for something filmed that close | 03:57 |
| Funnyfacemob | bit poor playback of the video on here though so can't tell the framerate :P | 03:57 |
| SpeedEvil | The n85 uses the same camera | 03:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | I don't know of the n86 | 03:57 |
| MohammadAG | 8MP cam, does that ring a bell? | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | bi | 03:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | no. I was just mentioning the 85, as it's specifically mentioned as a the same model of camera in some repair sute I found | 03:58 |
| MohammadAG | oh | 03:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - in the n900 - it's maybe 2MP real | 03:59 |
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| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, huh? | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | huh? | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | The lens is not physically large enough to produce an 5MP picture | 04:01 |
| asjWrk | the LEDs I suspect aren't heat sinked very well, so heating will probably be a problem first anyways | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | asjWrk: I ran it for an hour - the LEDs did not dim at all measured y a light meter | 04:02 |
| asjWrk | (after using some 1+watt leds, let me tell you about heat) | 04:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | they are not run at 1W | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | But at 70mA IIRC | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | So something like .5 for the two | 04:03 |
| asjWrk | SpeedEvil: were they running at full power or flash power? | 04:03 |
| asjWrk | err, flashlight power | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | flashlight | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | the driver has no interlock against flashing often. | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle you could flash for 0.5s every 0.6s say | 04:03 |
| asjWrk | so if it's 6x like mentioned above, that's 280ma, or ~1watt, that's a lot of power to disipate | 04:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | don't do that | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | 2 watts - 2 leds | 04:06 |
| asjWrk | I wonder what would melt first... | 04:06 |
| Funnyfacemob | so if there's no way to make it light up somewhere in between the 2 states, PWM!! :P | 04:06 |
| asjWrk | Funnyfacemob: the 1/6th power is probably pwm already | 04:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/n900/images/n900_02.jpeg | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | see the LEDs at the bottom | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | the flash LEDs | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | you can see their heatsinking is a bit dubious | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | nonexistent | 04:08 |
| asjWrk | the plastic on top of them probably wouldnt live long anyways | 04:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | Not quite nonexistant, I assume that's at least a couple of layers of copper | 04:09 |
| MohammadAG | damn importer! | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | but not great | 04:09 |
| asjWrk | the rated die temp of the high power white leds I looked at last went up to 120c...I wouldn't want that on a phone :) | 04:09 |
| Funnyfacemob | hehe | 04:11 |
| Funnyfacemob | "my phone can cook too, can your iphone do that?" | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | what? 120°C not want? bah, that's nothing | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, actually some chips may get that hot, under certain conditions | 04:12 |
| MohammadAG | wifi and 3G + JoikuSpot = ... | 04:13 |
| SpeedEvil | SOme are even rated to operate that hot. | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | (Not CPUs and stuff typically) | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | (though you can even get CPUs that'll go to 250c) | 04:14 |
| Funnyfacemob | my phone freezes after a 30-45mins with joikuspot | 04:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.honeywell.com/sites/portal?smap=aerospace&page=High-Temp-Electonics3&theme=T5&catID=C8CB0A123-D15A-925D-8BF2-3FBCC5E54BB7&id=H0F4347A8-B418-9BBF-51D2-4FE2F72E6EC1&sel=3 - $350 for an 8051 | 04:15 |
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| Funnyfacemob | oh well at least th N900 cpu seems power efficient | 04:16 |
| Funnyfacemob | it's not on my list of main heaters | 04:16 |
| Funnyfacemob | I think the battery is the main heater, followed by the 3g antenna, then gpu, then wifi | 04:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | the battery emits very little heat | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption | 04:17 |
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| Funnyfacemob | seems like there isn't a lot to save by running an idle 2g connection over 3g, unless 3g needs more to maintain connection because the range is loswer :P | 04:23 |
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| Funnyfacemob | lower* | 04:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Idle - no - there is little difference. | 04:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Basically - unless the 2G is completely flat-out, it tends to use less power than 3g even used occasionally | 04:24 |
| SpeedEvil | for data | 04:25 |
| SpeedEvil | 2G does use a tiny bit less power inactive | 04:25 |
| SpeedEvil | but it's on the order of 1mA | 04:25 |
| Funnyfacemob | I use 2g all the time, unless I need to pull down a large file or watch a video stream | 04:26 |
| Funnyfacemob | even for browsing I find 2g good enough | 04:26 |
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| Funnyfacemob | I get roughly 20KB/s everywhere with 2g | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | It never seems to kick in onto EDGE for me | 04:27 |
| SpeedEvil | staying at 5-6K/s | 04:27 |
| Funnyfacemob | in the areas where there is 3g coverage as well.. in rural areas with only 2g coverage it might be lower | 04:27 |
| Funnyfacemob | someone else I know from the UK has the same problem | 04:27 |
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| Funnyfacemob | can't remember what carrier he was on | 04:28 |
| Funnyfacemob | he was on tmobile, which is now orange | 04:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | same net then | 04:38 |
| SpeedEvil | But - at 20 quid/6 months on pay-as-you-go | 04:38 |
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| MohammadAG | I wonder why I got this error Device using more power than it is receiving from the PC. Charging with a compatible charger is recommended. | 04:42 |
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| Funnyfacemob | maybe your USB port refused to provide 500mA | 04:43 |
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| joeywolfgram | unlikely | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | strange activity here at a strange time :-P | 04:45 |
| joeywolfgram | lol | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: verrrry interesting! | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | a notifier? | 04:46 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, yeah, same as the one for Charging | 04:46 |
| MohammadAG | btw I didn't type that, I cat'd the language files | 04:47 |
| MohammadAG | I just saw Device using and couldn't read the rest since it disappeared | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so this means bme is reading the current_now from bq27200 | 04:47 |
| MohammadAG | ~ping | 04:47 |
| infobot | ~pong | 04:47 |
| MohammadAG | weird | 04:47 |
| MohammadAG | I connected the N900 and Ubuntu said wired network disconnected | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and finds bat is actually discharging | 04:48 |
| MohammadAG | Depends: busybox <-- is that a good thing to do ? | 04:50 |
| MohammadAG | guess not, I'll use man-db | 04:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | huh? | 04:51 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, man-db pages, how do I read the value from current_now? I'm getting the error a lot | 04:53 |
| MohammadAG | yet it keeps charging | 04:53 |
| MohammadAG | oh and I found this in the language strings Device using too much power. | 04:54 |
| MohammadAG | cat /usr/share/locale/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/* | grep "Device using*" | 04:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: use ShadowJK 's bq27x00 readout script | 04:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: something like bq.tgz | 04:56 |
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| MohammadAG | Uploading man-db pages to -devel | 04:57 |
| MohammadAG | and searching logs ;) | 04:57 |
| MohammadAG | 10 minutes left for the importer to kick in | 04:58 |
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| MohammadAG | less, oh crap | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or use my script from people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery and adapt the sysfs readout by replacing it with i2cdump | 04:58 |
| MohammadAG | MohammadAG: something like bq.tgz <-- so helpful lol | 04:58 |
| user__ | my penis | 04:58 |
| user__ | is huge | 04:59 |
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| MohammadAG | 403 forbidden | 04:59 |
| MohammadAG | wtf | 04:59 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 04:59 | |
| DocScrutinizer | duh | 04:59 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 04:59 | |
| DocScrutinizer | 403? | 04:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | where? | 04:59 |
| MohammadAG | You don't have permission to access /joerg/battery/BUPBAT/ on this server. | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry dude ;-) | 05:00 |
| MohammadAG | lol nw | 05:00 |
| MohammadAG | Uploading is damn slow :( | 05:00 |
| MohammadAG | guess I'll have to check if my package works tomorrow | 05:00 |
| MohammadAG | if it breaks any N900s, that's what -devel is for | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 05:01 |
| MohammadAG | finally, move to autobuilder | 05:02 |
| MohammadAG | hope it gets there | 05:02 |
| MohammadAG | 2010-05-12 02:02 UTC | 05:03 |
| MohammadAG | 3 minutes till the autobuilder runs | 05:03 |
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| MohammadAG | Night #maemo | 05:13 |
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| Funnyfacemob | one thing that is a pain in the ass with touchscreen is that when you try to drag and drop something, the position changes just as you take your finger or stylus off the screen.. | 05:17 |
| Funnyfacemob | trying to align a lot of shortcuts on my desktop at the moment :P | 05:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: :) | 05:23 |
| SpeedEvil | You want to set the snap to a reasonable figure | 05:23 |
| SpeedEvil | 40 pixels forex | 05:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5372 | 05:26 |
| povbot | Bug 5372: Can't easily align desktop widgets (snap to position) on home screens | 05:26 |
| SpeedEvil | see comment 13 Funnyface | 05:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyfacemob: | 05:26 |
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| Funnyfacemob | ah | 05:28 |
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| Funnyfacemob | thanks | 05:29 |
| SpeedEvil | bo | 05:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Funnyfacemob: there's a gridsnap for desktops | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ooh late | 05:34 |
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| Funnyfacemob | I'll get this tweaker thing, sounds interesting | 05:38 |
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| Funnyfacemob | anyway generally speaking, it's annoying that touchscreens are that way, but especially on the desktop :P | 05:38 |
| Funnyfacemob | on my old device, the web browser would scroll like cfazy every now and then | 05:39 |
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| Funnyfacemob | great, that was 10 times quicker | 05:46 |
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| Shinkam900 | wow | 06:28 |
| Shinkam900 | opera is fast | 06:28 |
| Shinkam900 | mostly | 06:28 |
| Shinkam900 | render and scroll are great | 06:28 |
| Shinkam900 | but im still more a fan of microb | 06:28 |
| Shinkam900 | mostly | 06:29 |
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| Macer | microb is great | 06:39 |
| Macer | :) | 06:39 |
| Macer | i still want cups :/ | 06:39 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 passes 2 cups to Macer | 06:44 | |
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| Macer | :) | 06:44 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer51: you bricked your phone trying to replace the front piece? | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nah | 06:45 |
| Macer | i have a small scratch... but it just occured to me that sooner or later no matter what i do... i will scratch it more | 06:45 |
| Macer | :) | 06:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | who's telling that? | 06:45 |
| Macer | i was just curious how difficult it is to replace the front of the screen | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's probably not too difficult | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but a bit dangeroues | 06:46 |
| Macer | yeah that's what someone was saying | 06:46 |
| Macer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVEHm325-z8 | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hhmm know that video | 06:48 |
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| Macer | doesn't seem too difficult | 06:51 |
| Macer | just need a set of small screwdrivers | 06:51 |
| swc|666 | or a sledgehammer | 06:51 |
| Macer | and make sure you don't rip apart the small ribbon cables :) | 06:51 |
| Macer | wonder if i can find a replacement screen.. it's not even a big scratch but it would be good to know i have one on standby | 06:51 |
| Macer | maybe a new housing too just in case | 06:51 |
| rockstar_ | Macer: n900? | 06:52 |
| Macer | i dropped my n95 one day and had to find a new housing for it | 06:52 |
| Macer | yeah | 06:52 |
| Macer | i have a scratch that isn't even noticable.. but still. i would like to have spare parts lying around just in case | 06:52 |
| Macer | i doubt i'm going to be getting rid of my n900 any time soon :) | 06:52 |
| rockstar_ | PR1.2 needs to be released | 06:53 |
| Macer | especially once i get a portrait mode "desktop" and cups | 06:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Macer: that video is a 'fake' | 06:53 |
| Macer | cups especially :) it would be nice to use the easydeb openoffice to make something and print it straight off the phone | 06:53 |
| Macer | a fake? | 06:53 |
| rockstar_ | Macer: why don't you port cups? | 06:54 |
| Macer | rockstar_: don't know how :/ | 06:54 |
| Macer | nor do i have the time to do it now. luckily my mother is watching my son tonight but usually he is with me.. ever try to figure out how to set up a dev environment and get it all going with a 4 year old hanging on you ? :) | 06:55 |
| swc|666 | let's see him put it back together | 06:55 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer51: that doesn't seem too fake to me :) | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Macer: by exactly following the procedure shown in the video you pretty certainly will ruin your N900 | 06:55 |
| Macer | why? | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | do you think the cable will hang loose when you 'pop out the screen with loud noise that scared us a little bit' | 06:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | for sure it will after you did it | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but I doubt it will survive that | 06:57 |
| Macer | ah. i didn't notice that | 06:57 |
| Macer | you are right | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so->fake | 06:57 |
| Macer | i figured though that they had already disassembled it and put it back togethe without the ribbon cable connected? | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | prolly | 06:58 |
| Macer | it uses a normal ribbon cable connector right? the little plastic flip down tab? | 06:58 |
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| Macer | that locks it into place? | 06:58 |
| Macer | seems so | 06:58 |
| Macer | like the kind you find on ps3 optical drives | 06:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | nope | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's a bord2board connector | 06:58 |
| Macer | yeah | 06:59 |
| Macer | hm | 06:59 |
| Macer | that looks like something that may have came out of place by separating it | 06:59 |
| Macer | it looks rather.. pinned :) | 06:59 |
| Macer | that cable that was unplugged looks like something that is easy to put back into place | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | check L1/2 service manual | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's not | 07:00 |
| Macer | there's a L1/2 service manual? :) | 07:00 |
| Macer | heh | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's a pita to put back into place | 07:01 |
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| Macer | hm | 07:01 |
| Macer | but it looks like it just kind of presses back into place correct? | 07:02 |
| Macer | it isn't something that's soldered on is it? | 07:02 |
| Macer | i mean the ribbon has what looks like a male connector on it | 07:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep but needs correct alignment and the screen covers it | 07:02 |
| Macer | how did you get it back into place? | 07:03 |
| Macer | used a stick or something? :) | 07:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes it's male half of a soldered B2B | 07:03 |
| Macer | a tongue depressor? | 07:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | something like that | 07:03 |
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| Macer | needlenose pliers? :) you can't go wrong with needlenose pliers | 07:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | the problem is the soldering at that point | 07:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I mean theat's a flex cable | 07:04 |
| Macer | yeah but that's only if you break the connector on the cable isn't it? | 07:05 |
| Macer | as long as you are careful you should be able to kind of disconnect it without separting it from the cable correct? | 07:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and it even has another small patch soldered to the backside on that point for making jumpers | 07:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | correct that's the idea how it s supposed to work | 07:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | but really you need care and L1/2 | 07:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | and a tool very similar to the NOKIA special plastic thingy | 07:09 |
| Macer | haha | 07:10 |
| Macer | like the one they send with n95 housings? | 07:10 |
| Macer | to get the tabs unclipped? | 07:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | maybe similar | 07:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | see L1/2 | 07:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | the blue screwdriver alike thingy | 07:11 |
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| Macer | hm | 07:11 |
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| Macer | i'm curious about that front screen cover with the ribbon going to it | 07:11 |
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| Macer | how do you disconnect that ribbon? | 07:11 |
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| Macer | i want to do fun stuff like put my n900 in a pink housing just to be funny :) | 07:12 |
| Macer | maybe one with rhinestones on it | 07:12 |
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| Macer | OR ... maybe i'll go gangsta and put it in a custom made platinum housing with diamonds all around it | 07:12 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer51: do you know where i can get the L1/2 service manual for an n900? | 07:13 |
| Macer | is that something i'd have to order? | 07:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | check the wiki | 07:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | also check my disassembled scans | 07:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | might help for a few details | 07:16 |
| Macer | awesome.. thanks | 07:18 |
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| Macer | not anything i'll have to do soon (hopefully) | 07:18 |
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| Macer | but a lesson learned from the n95 is that it is always good to know how to take your phone apart when you are the guy with a broke phone :) | 07:19 |
| Macer | my n95 had a chip on it for like 2 months before i couldn't take it anymore and ripped it apart and put a black housing on it | 07:19 |
| Macer | wasn't too difficult | 07:19 |
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| rockstar_ | lcuk: try meditating | 08:11 |
| lcuk | doesnt work | 08:11 |
| rockstar_ | try suicide | 08:11 |
| lcuk | i think ill pass | 08:12 |
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| adeus | any ideas why a file that is in the deb file is not copied in the system via dpkg -i? | 08:33 |
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| Mace_N900 | hm | 08:34 |
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| adeus | hmm purge helped | 08:47 |
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| * ruskie wants webkit 1.2... /me goes to try and hammer togheter the relevant debs | 08:59 | |
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| wall[e] | hi, is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash accurate on the table part in solution 1? | 09:12 |
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| ruskie | wall[e], yeah it assumes you have a standard layout | 09:14 |
| wall[e] | ruskie, I got http://www.pasteall.org/13078 | 09:16 |
| wall[e] | after I done sfdisk --no-reread /dev/mmcblk0 < table | 09:17 |
| wall[e] | and reboot | 09:17 |
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| wall[e] | p1 should be new vfat right? | 09:18 |
| ruskie | no clue | 09:19 |
| Shapeshifter | opera mobile is awesome. I can surf on 2g as fast as I was able to on microb with 3g, because it always loads text first, images later so one can already start reading things. brilliant. | 09:19 |
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| * ruskie think Shapeshifter needs to go proclaim that to opera | 09:19 | |
| ruskie | wall[e], my approach is solution #3 ;) | 09:19 |
| wall[e] | ruskie, i guess I got the unit size all wrong :S | 09:19 |
| wall[e] | but better goes with solution 3 so i have some friends | 09:20 |
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| ruskie | wall[e], and always read the original post not the stuff that's on that wiki page | 09:20 |
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| ruskie | those instructions to me sound a tad sparse and possibly a tad wrong | 09:21 |
| wall[e] | ruskie, I think the unit size aren't equal | 09:21 |
| wall[e] | ok | 09:21 |
| wall[e] | thanks | 09:21 |
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| wall[e] | i think i should flash! | 09:29 |
| wall[e] | better do math later | 09:29 |
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| mjo | Hi . I want to add my native language input method to N900, so that I can input text in my native language. Any pointers how that can be done or if any tools exist to do this? | 09:51 |
| Stskeeps | well, you can start out with what language it is | 09:52 |
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| mjo | Stskeeps: Hindi | 09:52 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:57 |
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| Stskeeps | morn jaffa | 09:58 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Collector of interesting links: 1) Get a Twitter client which is easy to post with; 2) Write messages of the form "d mwkn Devices <some keywords> <url>" or "@mwkn Devices <smoe keywords> <url>" | 09:59 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 09:59 |
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| lbt | morning | 10:02 |
| lbt | Jaffa, Stskeeps http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52259 | 10:03 |
| Stskeeps | OBS json-glib? yeah, saw | 10:03 |
| alterego | Guten moaning #maemo | 10:04 |
| zash | gluten mörgen | 10:04 |
| * lbt hits refresh ... oh yes :P | 10:04 | |
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| * ruskie gives up on webkit 1.2 on the n900 | 10:07 | |
| petteri | it would be handy if the bot here could printout title from those urls pasted here | 10:08 |
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| hrw-uds | hi | 10:10 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: So, for example, your link from earlier I've just done "d mwkn Devices Efforts underway to get 3D drivers working on N8x0 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=654109" | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 10:12 |
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| * phellarv is awfully pleased with Opera on my N900 | 10:12 | |
| * wall[e] too | 10:13 | |
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| wall[e] | and i hate that | 10:13 |
| furunk3l | y helo thar! | 10:13 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Full reference at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Weekly_News#Contributor_Reference | 10:14 |
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| jacekowski | morning | 10:20 |
| ruskie | lo | 10:20 |
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| wall[e] | file manager couldn't go above MyDocs? | 10:24 |
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| wall[e] | ah something todo with extra memory right? | 10:24 |
| hrw-uds | wall[e]: this is 'Files' not 'File manager' ;D | 10:25 |
| wall[e] | :) | 10:25 |
| ruskie | file manager is limited sadly to my docs and mmc and upnp | 10:26 |
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| wall[e] | too bad | 10:27 |
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| wikilover | hallo | 10:37 |
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| wikilover | is anybody here | 10:37 |
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| Po0ky | sure | 10:38 |
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| wikilover | u must be a good gay | 10:53 |
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| ShadowJK | Anyone tried opera on n8x0 yet? | 10:58 |
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| kevloral | hi all | 11:28 |
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| Stskeeps | andre__: i'd say your bugmaster review went better than mine ;) | 11:30 |
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| fraggeln | bleader: we can use ctrl+m to send enter :) but that seems more like a workaround rather then a perm solution. | 11:30 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, heh | 11:30 |
| hrw-uds | Stskeeps: url? | 11:31 |
| bleader | fraggeln: oh, didn't talk about it, but yeah, I'm using it all the time actually | 11:31 |
| bleader | fraggeln: in fact, enter works fine in irssi in one window of my screen, et doesn't work on mutt in the other window | 11:31 |
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| fraggeln | bleader: same here | 11:31 |
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| ruskie | all keys work fine for me ssh | 11:32 |
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| ruskie | erm with ssh even | 11:33 |
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| fraggeln | ruskie: even in a screen when running mutt or vi? | 11:36 |
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| ruskie | fraggeln, I use tmux | 11:37 |
| ruskie | and I use alpine not mutt | 11:37 |
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| fraggeln | ruskie: anyway, its still a bug :) | 11:39 |
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| ruskie | fraggeln, works with tmux and vim as well | 11:46 |
| fraggeln | cool. | 11:47 |
| ruskie | fraggeln, I do use zsh on each end though | 11:47 |
| ruskie | so that might be the reason | 11:47 |
| fraggeln | maybe. | 11:47 |
| phellarv | Hmmm - pam on my N900: Yay or Nay | 11:49 |
| * phellarv is trying to get screen compiling for N900. | 11:49 | |
| fraggeln | mysql is the shit on n900 :) | 11:50 |
| phellarv | fraggeln: Which version? | 11:52 |
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| * phellarv got Varnish running on N900 - Imagine running a stack of N900s for caching facebook. | 11:53 | |
| fraggeln | phellarv: 4.1.22-1 | 11:53 |
| Stskeeps | phellarv: we can beat that, maemo.org has been running on 770's for years ;p | 11:53 |
| fraggeln | phellarv: why, but why.. :D | 11:53 |
| fraggeln | Stskeeps: aha, hence the slow browsing? :D | 11:53 |
| hrw-uds | Stskeeps: but how they connected that famous 33600 modem to it... | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | hrw-uds: usb host | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:54 |
| hrw-uds | Stskeeps: ah... | 11:54 |
| phellarv | hrw-uds: USB-to-Serial | 11:54 |
| hrw-uds | Stskeeps: or jig to serial port | 11:54 |
| hrw-uds | ~curse nokia just in case | 11:55 |
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| hrw-uds | so far LR1.2 works fine on my n900 but would be nice to make s/L/P on it | 11:55 |
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| chem|st | ~oc | 11:59 |
| infobot | well, oc is an Optical Carrier, An OC1 has 672 channels or 44.736 Mbit/s | 11:59 |
| chem|st | ~overclock | 11:59 |
| infobot | I overclock in winter to keep dpkg's toes warm. | 11:59 |
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| chem|st | phellarv: screen is already build | 12:03 |
| phellarv | chem|st: Oh? In extras-devel? | 12:03 |
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| chem|st | no I think it was the SDK-tools | 12:08 |
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| phellarv | chem|st: M'Kay | 12:09 |
| chem|st | phellarv: want the settings? | 12:09 |
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| chem|st | phellarv: its in the normal repo afais | 12:12 |
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| chem|st | distri fremantle/tools it is | 12:14 |
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| phellarv | chem|st: Then I will compile it, just cause I can | 12:16 |
| phellarv | ;-P | 12:16 |
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| * SpeedEvil smiles. | 12:20 | |
| SpeedEvil | Since the start of my diet, I have lost pi stones. | 12:20 |
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| chem|st | SpeedEvil: you lost your surface divided by you radius by stones and you are a circle? | 12:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | At least I'm not a sphere any more. | 12:26 |
| chem|st | hehe | 12:26 |
| MohammadAG | don't you just hate it when facebook changes all their settings to add a - before each contact's jabber account | 12:27 |
| chem|st | what is 3.xx stones in metrics | 12:27 |
| MohammadAG | now I have to merge duplicates again! | 12:27 |
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| rogcas | hi, i have a question please. i have downladed and installed on a debian system qt 4.6.2 for devel on maemo. now what? i am ready to compile app for maemo? because i have installed outside scratchbox, as the installer guide said. | 12:28 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: these freaks want to use an open standard and behave like sh** also privacy measures hav changed last month to ICQ like setup | 12:28 |
| hrw-uds | MohammadAG: facebook and twitter are most common sources of duplicates | 12:28 |
| hrw-uds | MohammadAG: did they finally added ssl for jabber chat? | 12:28 |
| MohammadAG | no idea lol | 12:29 |
| chem|st | rogcas: you can choose to build for arm I guess, I am still on c++ tutorials for people with ideas that do not fit any good reason | 12:29 |
| MohammadAG | chem|st, I know about their privacy crap, my fb account is basically empty, it's just there for the idiots who don't switch to another network | 12:29 |
| MohammadAG | s/idiots/friends :P | 12:30 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: isnt it the same | 12:30 |
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| chem|st | its so easy to setup encryption for stuff like jabber but noone does use it... | 12:30 |
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| chem|st | and up front modest and telepathy | 12:31 |
| rogcas | chem|st: well, suppose, i must try first to compile inside scratchbox and if no success comeback here to ask again. thanks, suppose will come back. bye. | 12:31 |
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| chem|st | rogcas: afaik you can compile from the Qt SDK and copie the build to some testing environment | 12:32 |
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| Corsac | chem|st: some people do use it, and some businesses are very interested in them | 12:37 |
| r0gcas | chem|st: do you mean scratchbox is not more necessary when compiling qt apps? | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: are these idiots your friends? :) | 12:41 |
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| jacekowski | oh | 12:44 |
| jacekowski | take a look | 12:44 |
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| jacekowski | i just had e-mail from nokia | 12:44 |
| jacekowski | X-Fade: ping | 12:44 |
| Stskeeps | cease and desist? :P | 12:44 |
| jacekowski | http://pastebin.com/daeBB7tU | 12:44 |
| jacekowski | Stskeeps: sort of | 12:45 |
| tekojo | well, it was me who got the c&d | 12:46 |
| tekojo | :) | 12:46 |
| ruskie | lol | 12:46 |
| tekojo | but as it's not my package, I need to tell you about it :) | 12:46 |
| jacekowski | can you forward a copy of it? | 12:46 |
| r0gcas | please, i need advice. i just have downloaded qt-maemo-4.6.2 and installed on debian system. what it rests to download or install in order make apps and test them on the device? | 12:46 |
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| r0gcas | is scratchbox needed any more? | 12:47 |
| Stskeeps | jacekowski: looks like freebsd and others have been hit with it too | 12:47 |
| tekojo | It's a physical paper document | 12:47 |
| r0gcas | i have to download files on the device itself? | 12:47 |
| jacekowski | tekojo: scan it | 12:47 |
| chem|st | r0gcas: well for testing I guess you may need it as you dont want to screw up your device and reflash for every second testbuild... | 12:47 |
| jacekowski | tekojo: and do you mind if it would link to copy hosted in my repository? | 12:47 |
| tekojo | I'll try to :) | 12:47 |
| tekojo | your repository is yours to share whatever you feel like | 12:48 |
| tekojo | I only look after the maemo.org one, as long as my name is there on the legal page | 12:48 |
| jacekowski | besides, it's US patent, and we are in europe | 12:48 |
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| tekojo | sorry for the mess, not my favourite topic either, but they do have an open legal case, and we don't interfere in someone elses casese | 12:49 |
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| tekojo | well, legal case anyway | 12:49 |
| Stskeeps | that's a nasty patent | 12:49 |
| jacekowski | well, i think i can remove that easily from chromium | 12:50 |
| SpeedEvil | what patent? | 12:50 |
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| * SpeedEvil stabs stupid patents. | 12:50 | |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: binary diff software updates | 12:50 |
| tekojo | 6,546,552 US pat | 12:50 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/11/us_patent_office_i4i_microsoft_word_xml/ <-- here's another patent news for today ;) | 12:51 |
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| Stskeeps | tekojo: we might want to watch out for that with the meego repos too - there's delta upgrades | 12:51 |
| Termana | Anyone care to tell me how you can send cease and desist letters based on an on-going case? If the case has yet to be decided, then no one is officially in violation - innocent till proven guilty? | 12:51 |
| tekojo | but rpm, I think this is about a specific way to do it | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | think so too | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | depending on how wide their patent is :) | 12:51 |
| ruskie | Termana, only in criminal law | 12:51 |
| ruskie | in civil law you are guilty until you prove otherwise | 12:51 |
| SpeedEvil | KSM - kernel samepage mapping - merging pages which become identical through the life of the system - to save memory - has avoided hashing the involved pages due to a patent. Despite the mergemem module - which explicitly did this - since way before the patent was granted. | 12:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is annoying, as mergemem on the n900 would e interesting | 12:52 |
| ruskie | SpeedEvil, way before it was granted what about before it was applied for? | 12:52 |
| SpeedEvil | way before. | 12:53 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC the dates were something like 1996 and 2005 | 12:53 |
| ruskie | then someone just needs to throw lawyers at it until it goes away | 12:53 |
| jacekowski | tekojo: if i would remove that part of code ( it's not used anyways ) can you keep it there? | 12:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: Sure. | 12:53 |
| ruskie | hmm I wonder if xdelta predates this whole binary diffs of apps | 12:54 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: There not being a simple 'fuck off - this is clearly invalid on its face' - is broken. | 12:54 |
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| Stskeeps | i wonder if debian got a c&d too | 12:54 |
| Stskeeps | their debian-legal should be fun to read about it | 12:55 |
| jacekowski | debian don't have chromium in their repositories | 12:55 |
| ruskie | I'm guessing it'll only go to those that actually make a profit | 12:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | ruskie: nope | 12:56 |
| jacekowski | ruskie: i never made any profit on it | 12:56 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: google the patent numbers - they're mailshotting everyone | 12:56 |
| SpeedEvil | freebsd forex | 12:56 |
| Stskeeps | the problem is that maemo.org is practically under nokia auspices, which means we are protected/vulnerable jut as nokia is | 12:57 |
| Stskeeps | in terms of hosting etc | 12:57 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/11/nokia_meego_symbian_reorg/ <-- why did I read that as someone who is 19 years old? | 12:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Isn't this somewhat rather boring binary diff algo? | 12:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Or am I missing something really clever. | 12:59 |
| jacekowski | Stskeeps: yes | 12:59 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: almost | 12:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Can that functionality ever be used in your 'port' anyway? | 12:59 |
| jacekowski | http://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/software-updates-courgette | 12:59 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: byebye chromium... | 12:59 |
| jacekowski | no | 12:59 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: it'll be back in half hour | 12:59 |
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| chem|st | jacekowski: from your server? | 13:00 |
| ruskie | http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2010/05/12/red_sky_liability_ruling/ <-- yay EULAs getting ripped appart piece by piece | 13:00 |
| chem|st | what is red sky? | 13:00 |
| jacekowski | no | 13:00 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: i'm removing that part | 13:00 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: it's not used anyways | 13:00 |
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| chem|st | jacekowski: those sueing folks... (its like sports in th US isnt it?) | 13:01 |
| jacekowski | i think so | 13:01 |
| jacekowski | but i don't live in US | 13:01 |
| jacekowski | so i don't care | 13:01 |
| jacekowski | and US police can't raid my house | 13:02 |
| ruskie | jacekowski, nor would they | 13:02 |
| ruskie | jacekowski, patents are still a civil matter | 13:02 |
| jacekowski | ( if i would be living in US i would have to pack my things and run away ) | 13:02 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, I thought KSM was only used by/useful for virtualization stuff like kvm and xen? | 13:03 |
| ruskie | same as most copyright and trademark law | 13:03 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yes - it is | 13:03 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: that's a seperate bit | 13:03 |
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| ruskie | ShadowJK, why not use it with a web browser or anything else that has a lot of similar things loaded | 13:03 |
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| ShadowJK | sure, send patch ;) | 13:03 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I would like to try it on a non-vm system - it produced useful savings last time I tried it - which was admittedly some time ago | 13:03 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah but that was a different thing you tried really ;) | 13:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: As in ~10% of RAM. | 13:04 |
| SpeedEvil | sure | 13:04 |
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| ruskie | I have a browser that uses it | 13:04 |
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| ShadowJK | hm... so 6 hours 30 minutes in helisimrc, and only 514 crashes.. I think I'm ready for the real thing :> | 13:04 |
| ruskie | apparently it's like a one line thing | 13:04 |
| MohammadAG | tmo down? as always | 13:05 |
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| jacekowski | tekojo: besides, aren't you supposed to give me 24h to respond? | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: I suspect LD_PRELOAD stuff can also be done | 13:06 |
| ShadowJK | I think that's dmca? | 13:06 |
| Noma | wtf, why is "sudo gainroot" asking me password? | 13:06 |
| Stskeeps | Noma: someone messed your sudoers | 13:07 |
| Noma | how do i fix it? | 13:07 |
| ShadowJK | It usually asks me when I spell gainroot wrong | 13:07 |
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| tekojo | jacekowski, it's about the distribution | 13:07 |
| Noma | i've tried a few times now and i don't think i've spelled it wrong every time :D | 13:07 |
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| jacekowski | tekojo: "The provider of allegedly infringing material may issue a written or electronic counter notification. " | 13:08 |
| tekojo | your site, you can do anything you feel like, but maemo.org, I get the legal mail | 13:08 |
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| ruskie | dmca is only for copyright infringments iirc | 13:09 |
| ShadowJK | jacekowski, that is dmca which is for copyright infringements | 13:09 |
| Noma | can anyone tell me how can i make my sudo gainroot work?:) | 13:10 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: dmca is US law and doesn't apply in EU | 13:10 |
| jacekowski | nokia is still based in EU? | 13:11 |
| ShadowJK | that too. | 13:11 |
| ShadowJK | So even if DMCA was relevant to this C&D, it'd still not apply to give you 24h to respond ;) | 13:11 |
| Stskeeps | jacekowski: but maemo.org repo is distributed all over the world | 13:11 |
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| Stskeeps | (akamai) | 13:12 |
| ruskie | iirc there is some dmca like provision in the eu copyright law | 13:12 |
| rodarvus | DocScrutinizer51, I was able to find the guy who hopefully can help us, and sent him an email. I'll let you know as soon as I get an answer from him (re: modem engineering mode) | 13:12 |
| lcuk | \o/ | 13:13 |
| SpeedEvil | rodarvus: :) | 13:14 |
| Termana | Stskeeps, buts its not the US' laws that apply, I don't think it matters that your serving material to the country, its not their jurisdiction or laws that apply in the EU | 13:14 |
| Stskeeps | Termana: nokia US.. | 13:14 |
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| lbt | C&D ? | 13:16 |
| Termana | Stskeeps, but is it Nokia US the owner of maemo.org or Nokia EU? | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | Termana: nokia is multinational, so it doesn't matter much :P | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | we're a valid target | 13:16 |
| Termana | Stskeeps, I don't think action can be taken against Nokia US, for the actions of Nokia EU | 13:17 |
| Termana | That would be silly | 13:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: of course it can | 13:17 |
| Termana | Then thats silly! | 13:17 |
| Termana | :P | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | yes, it is | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: The government of any nation can take action against any assets a company has in the country | 13:17 |
| SpeedEvil | This is part of what makes a multinational fun. | 13:18 |
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| mjo | whats the best IRC client ? | 13:21 |
| petteri | irssi | 13:21 |
| lcuk | xchat | 13:21 |
| alturiak | weechat | 13:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | telnet | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I like xchat on the phone | 13:22 |
| lcuk | arent we meant to shout vi or emacs or something | 13:22 |
| Termana | EMACS!!! | 13:23 |
| ShadowJK | ruskie, eu copyright law probably doesn't apply if it's about patents? | 13:23 |
| Termana | lcuk, does that satisfy the status quo now? :P | 13:24 |
| lcuk | it would, but you misspelt vi | 13:24 |
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| * Arkenoi wonders why SE makes quite decent headsets you may even use to listen music and Nokia just sucks big time, all of them | 13:24 | |
| Termana | lcuk, :P | 13:24 |
| lcuk | i cant hear anything from the outside world with my nokia headphones in | 13:24 |
| lcuk | they silence out everything | 13:25 |
| lcuk | work really well on device, but on my laptop i only get one channel :S | 13:25 |
| Termana | lcuk, you don't have anyone to hear anyway | 13:25 |
| Termana | :P I keed | 13:25 |
| ShadowJK | they're supposed to silence out the world :P | 13:26 |
| lcuk | they work | 13:26 |
| frals | what model are the "nokia headphones" lcuk? :D | 13:26 |
| lcuk | frals, the ones i got with the n900 | 13:26 |
| ShadowJK | I think he refers to the included canalphones | 13:26 |
| Arkenoi | the ones we get with n900 is PoS | 13:27 |
| frals | ah | 13:27 |
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| ShadowJK | they go into the earcanal, and the plastic/rubber/silicone ring forms an air-tight seal that block sound | 13:27 |
| Arkenoi | HS-12 that was $100+ are total, complete S. | 13:27 |
| adeus | "still in their original wrappings" | 13:27 |
| adeus | like always the headphones that comes with the device | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | when they don't fall out of your ears... | 13:28 |
| Arkenoi | adeus, i ripped of headphones from old SE, and they are almost the same quality as quite decent headphones you may buy for $30-40 separately | 13:28 |
| Arkenoi | not $3 range chinese shit nokia provides | 13:29 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, depends on amount and consistency of earwax i assume | 13:29 |
| MohammadAG_ | tbh the stock ones are ok for me | 13:29 |
| * lcuk distances himself from his previous comment | 13:30 | |
| SpeedEvil | ~flashing | 13:33 |
| infobot | methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 13:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Fuck. | 13:34 |
| SpeedEvil | I plug USB in, holding u, and I get nothing. | 13:34 |
| SpeedEvil | No usb logo | 13:34 |
| frals | "I send logs with it bug author. And nothing to change. He can't resolve this bug. " love how not making a tiny display issue top priority == cant fix | 13:34 |
| SpeedEvil | and it powers off almost immediately. | 13:34 |
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| kevloral | hi all | 13:35 |
| MohammadAG_ | SpeedEvil, pop out battery, connect USB then insert the battery | 13:35 |
| MohammadAG_ | otherwise serial flash it | 13:35 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, "turb off device, take battery out, plug in usb, start flasher, wait for flasher to say 'no device', insert battery, profit" | 13:35 |
| lcuk | turn | 13:35 |
| MohammadAG_ | beat you to it | 13:35 |
| MohammadAG_ | :P | 13:35 |
| * lcuk beats you | 13:35 | |
| MohammadAG_ | lcuk, what good would that do if he wiped the bootloader? | 13:35 |
| MohammadAG_ | lol | 13:35 |
| SpeedEvil | while holding u? | 13:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | It shows 'nokia' | 13:36 |
| lcuk | my device is always upside down | 13:36 |
| lcuk | ive never seen the screen | 13:36 |
| lcuk | nor pressed a key | 13:36 |
| s|fr | hi all. Somebody here told me not to go for a used n900 because its usually already oc'd? what does that mean? over clocked? | 13:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | Hmm. | 13:37 |
| d14 | you | 13:38 |
| SpeedEvil | It seems to cycle on the nokia/buzz/turn-off - wait - restart thing | 13:38 |
| d14 | overlocked | 13:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | It will not flash | 13:38 |
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| chem|st | "PR 4.2 is the answer to life, the universe and everything!" | 13:38 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, flatflatbattery? | 13:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: I don't think so. | 13:38 |
| * SpeedEvil gets dmm | 13:39 | |
| SpeedEvil | \ | 13:39 |
| chem|st | s|fr: yes overclocked | 13:39 |
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| lcuk | s|fr, technically anything you buy second hand can be abused, even purchasing a car from a nice old dear with all certificates doesnt ensure she hasnt been rallying in it | 13:40 |
| s|fr | chem|st, d14: so if it is already overclocked? does it make a difference? Does it break it in some way or is that bad? | 13:40 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: thanks - sure I'd have worked that out. | 13:40 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, ? flat | 13:40 |
| s|fr | lcuk: yes i am aware of that but that is basic, the way it was highlighted seemed like there was something exception about getting the n900 second hand | 13:40 |
| s|fr | s/exception/exceptional | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | s|fr: overclocking is out of spec - it is stated by the manufacturer that it reduces the life of the CPU. | 13:41 |
| chem|st | s|fr: depends on for how long and how much it has been oc'ed generally it decreases lifetime and voids warranty | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | s|fr: exactly how this works in practice is another question. | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: yes | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: I assumed it couldn't be that,, as it's been plugged into laptop | 13:41 |
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| s|fr | SpeedEvil, chem|st: aah, gotcha. thanks for the explanation. | 13:41 |
| chem|st | s|fr: for how that works look up electromigration | 13:42 |
| s|fr | chem|st: cheers. | 13:42 |
| SpeedEvil | If it still works - then in practice - if you flash a stock kernel - even if it's been overclocked - it should not in practice invalidate the warranty | 13:42 |
| SpeedEvil | - as they can't check | 13:42 |
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| lcuk | buy new | 13:43 |
| chem|st | s|fr: for telling if it was oc'ed the jtag will help | 13:43 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: they can | 13:43 |
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| s|fr | chem|st: jtag? | 13:43 |
| lcuk | s|fr, if its something you are concerned about go with a new one | 13:43 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: I'm unsure that that's the case. | 13:43 |
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| s|fr | lcuk: yes that is what i am considering, but the difference in new and old is almost a 100q | 13:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | chem|st: Do you have any links to the page in the datasheet specifying any bits of non-volatile storage in the CPU or elsewhere that are set on overclocks? | 13:44 |
| lcuk | the second hand market has other considerations - someone else got to open the screen | 13:44 |
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| lcuk | and put their fingerprints on it | 13:44 |
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| lcuk | thats much worse than anything | 13:44 |
| s|fr | lcuk: so im trying to understand the issues involved | 13:44 |
| MohammadAG_ | any ideas when the servers will be fixed? I feel tmo-less | 13:45 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: I work in micro/nano analytics... it takes me about 10minutes to tell if it was oc'ed or not (with a device not functional anyway as I just ripp it apart) | 13:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | chem|st: Umm... | 13:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Bullshit. | 13:45 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: jtag is commonly used in phones | 13:46 |
| flux | "oh yeah? well send me who phones, one oc'd, one not, and I'll prove it!" | 13:46 |
| flux | ;) | 13:46 |
| Termana | Lets assume chem|st isn't lying. Do you REALLY think Nokia is going to pull apart all the failed phones coming their way to see if they have been overclocked | 13:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | There is absolutely no way in hell they are unsoldering the device, removing the POP NAND/flash chip from on top, etching away the package, and inspecting it with a SEM. | 13:46 |
| Arkenoi | and still no n900's toasted by OC seen anyways ;-) | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: actually, i would look for heat issues underneath lcd | 13:47 |
| s|fr | Termana: tbh people who oc stuff rarely care about warranties anyway | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: I am aware of JTAG, and have used it to flash a phone before. | 13:47 |
| MohammadAG_ | JTAG works on the N900? | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenoi: There have been no n900s toasted by taking them apart, and putting them together either. | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: not the n900 - I have not looked for JTAG yet | 13:47 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: well maybe the pumping takes a bit longer than 10minutes but I got here REM TEM AES XPS and other stuff just downstairs... (and I can actualy operate all except of REM and TEM myself) | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: Sure. That's utterly and completley irrelevant though. | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: There is absolutely no way they are doing this to all incoming non-booting n900s. | 13:49 |
| chem|st | Arkenoi: yes maybe it needs a coupled of month, maybe the design is actualy 800MHz but was instable for some reason so it wont hurt to run 700 or 800 but 801+... you get the deal? | 13:49 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: Or maybe the overclocking caution in the manual is simply to encourage sales of the higher speed grade. | 13:49 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: I doubt it | 13:49 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: you oc'ed? | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: No. | 13:50 |
| * s|fr did not even know electromigration existed but now thinks its v. logical | 13:50 | |
| Termana | Might be of interest for everyone to know - Motorola is planning to release a phone with OMAP3430 clocked at 800mhz | 13:50 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, didnt intel have to do that with the celeron 300a | 13:50 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: would you mind to test for us? | 13:50 |
| Termana | AFAIK | 13:50 |
| Arkenoi | i doubt you really can see a difference between n900 running for days and months on stock overvolted 600MHz and one that occasionally ran 850MHz undervolted for a few minutes | 13:50 |
| lcuk | it was a 66mhz chip | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: there are various speed grades. | 13:50 |
| lcuk | but if you bumped it to 100mhz FSB it was happy | 13:50 |
| Arkenoi | technically both are overclocled, but legally just the second one | 13:50 |
| s|fr | Termana: is that a droid or a meego? | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: Certainly. If you fund test devices. | 13:50 |
| Termana | s|fr, Android phone, I have seen no commitment to MeeGo from Motorola | 13:51 |
| chem|st | Termana: thats why I just told the 800 | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: I have absolutely no spare cash at the moment. At all. | 13:51 |
| viliny__ | heh, oc discussion again | 13:51 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: thats why I ask, if you are so sure about you wouldnt deny testing it yourself | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: It's not a case of denying it - I simply haven't. | 13:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | I have however read the requisite sections of the CPU datasheet. | 13:53 |
| jacekowski | ok | 13:54 |
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| jacekowski | i resent chromium | 13:54 |
| jacekowski | this time without courgette | 13:54 |
| jacekowski | and they can kiss my ass | 13:55 |
| chem|st | I saw chips still working but having a gap in the lineups of several nanos with a connection of less than 1/5 of the actual width, something like |-| or \_/ | 13:55 |
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| crashanddie | dneary: there? | 13:56 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: I'm not arguing that electromigration can't be found out - but nokia are not going to be doing it. | 13:56 |
| chem|st | well in case of a few they might not but in case of a hundreds they will | 13:57 |
| jacekowski | tekojo: that letter states that their firmware over the air is used by nokia ( which i assume is licensed ) so in fact nokia can host chromium as they have license for that piece of software | 13:58 |
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| tekojo | I don't know, but usually licences have a very specific area of applicability | 13:58 |
| tekojo | I can ask our legal | 13:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | chem|st: Even if lots of people were doing it - they are not going to do that. They will at most inspect flash for an overclocked kernel. Anything else costs way more than replacing a motherboard. | 13:59 |
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| Tuukka | is it possible to open images with terminal? What command am i supposed to use? | 14:00 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: as nokia got the equipment themselves they can do it realy cheap... and for hundreds you just boot up an automatic stage (we do not have but nokia will) | 14:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | chem|st: No, they can't. | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | They will not have the equipment set up to evaluate _all_ non-booting returns. | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | This is clearly insane. | 14:02 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: our XPS runs 3 platens full auto, 5-10 hours programming and the beast runs for 4-6 days without one watching | 14:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | JTAG inspection of the flash - maybe. | 14:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | If it can be automated. | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | And pushed out to the shops. | 14:03 |
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| lbt | jacekowski: have you contacted corbet at LWN ... would be interesting | 14:06 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: darn hell, I ran such stuff myself and we are getting jobs like "please check on the bonds of these 100 chips"... not fully automated, took like forever | 14:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also - the CPU is a POP | 14:08 |
| jacekowski | well, that courgette is pretty much thing that text diff is doing | 14:09 |
| SpeedEvil | You've got 3? chips on top of the package | 14:09 |
| SpeedEvil | on top of the CPU | 14:09 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: you dont know what companies spend in case of large warranty issues, they actualy dont want to check for oc itself but want to know what was wrong so they give the warranty through to their suppliers | 14:09 |
| jacekowski | i suppose converting original binary file and new one to hex form with one byte per line | 14:09 |
| jacekowski | and then diffing them | 14:09 |
| jacekowski | would have similiar result to courgette | 14:09 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: Of course. You investigate customer returns as a sampling measure and for reliability. | 14:10 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: You absolutely do not perform extensive teardowns on everything to catch every screwy thing users may have done. | 14:10 |
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| chem|st | SpeedEvil: no you don't! but most of the time we find stuff like this by accident when actualy looking for another answer to a completely different question! | 14:12 |
| jacekowski | lbt: what's his e-mail address? | 14:13 |
| jacekowski | lbt: or jabber | 14:13 |
| chem|st | so nokia returns the omap chips as they give the fault... so Ti now got about 300 chips on their desk, bin or basket? | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: I doubt it. | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: The omap costs - IIRC - probably $25 in volume. | 14:14 |
| chem|st | basket and up to the lab as another huge customer just ordered 120k chips of the same kind | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not worth the hastle of them trying to do warranty returns. | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Even if that was possible. | 14:14 |
| lbt | http://lwn.net/op/FAQ.lwn#contact just lwn@lwn.net would be fine - let them know what's happened | 14:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: I assume it's a really minor patch? | 14:15 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: yes | 14:15 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: it's unused anyways | 14:15 |
| smhar | is it possible/easy to double boot two OSes in N900? not Andriod and maemo, but 2 maemo. one for the normal use and the other for experimentation | 14:15 |
| jacekowski | no | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | smhar: possible, yes | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | yes it is | 14:15 |
| jacekowski | possible - yeas | 14:15 |
| jacekowski | easy - no | 14:15 |
| lbt | jacekowski: it would be nice to help them put together a piece for next edition - maybe get some EFF input too | 14:15 |
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| smhar | SpeedEvil, jacekowski, any link on how to do it? | 14:16 |
| lbt | (I say this as I don't really know what's going on and I'd like to ... and I'm sure others would too) | 14:16 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.maemonokian900.com/maemo-news/dual-booting-mer-on-nokia-n900/ see | 14:16 |
| SpeedEvil | smhar: | 14:16 |
| smhar | thanks SpeedEvil | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | smhar: also - with a new kernel with mmc and kexec support - it should be possible to dual boot. | 14:17 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: kexec has some re-entry usage, for example, external mmc breaks | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Using a kernel commandline with something like root=/dev/mmcblk1p1 or root=/dev/ubifs | 14:17 |
| Stskeeps | problems, that is | 14:17 |
| Stskeeps | we're looking into it | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | well - flasher -k would in principle work | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Or the 'early check for keyboard out and run script in 1.1' that I've forgotten the URL of | 14:18 |
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| MohammadAG_ | SpeedEvil, it's in Qole's repo afaik | 14:21 |
| MohammadAG_ | bootmenu-1.8 | 14:21 |
| Stskeeps | no, bootmenu-n900 in extras-devel | 14:22 |
| MohammadAG_ | I don't use it | 14:23 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: OMG... fake-scratchbox... everything used to link to /scratchbox/tools/bin/ ... now it's /scratchbox/tools/autotools/automake-1.9/share/automake-1.9/missing /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486/arch_tools/share/libtool/ltmain.sh etc.... | 14:25 |
| * lbt grabs hold of scratchbox and dremmels its eyeballs out | 14:26 | |
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| * lcuk gets lbt a towel to mop up blood splatter | 14:31 | |
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| X-Fade | go lbt, go lbt! | 14:34 |
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| X-Fade | jacekowski: Quick response ;) | 14:36 |
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| jacekowski | fight the power | 14:38 |
| jacekowski | and tell red bend to bend over | 14:38 |
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| lcuk | lbt swap that dremel for an axe | 14:39 |
| lbt | with a dremmel it's personal... | 14:39 |
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| lcuk | lbt its also slower | 14:40 |
| * lbt nods and smiles evilly | 14:40 | |
| lcuk | tho you can make those fancy curvy bits easier | 14:40 |
| lbt | X-Fade: what versions of scratchbox do we need to support in the OBS? | 14:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Blunt spoon++ | 14:41 |
| * chem|st wishes abill_uk would be here and the bot was working properly | 14:42 | |
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| jacekowski | ok | 14:45 |
| jacekowski | chromium is almsot back in repo | 14:45 |
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| dneary | crashanddie, Now I'm here | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Hmm. How much smaller is this binary? And how many more unused bits can you rip out! :) | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Woo - 76.5M free on / | 14:48 |
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| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: i suppose something about half | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Hmm. <blink> <marquee> - and who really needs uppercase? | 14:53 |
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| inz | <span style="color: white; background: white;"> </span> | 14:53 |
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| wall[e] | http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash | 14:55 |
| wall[e] | should... The device creates a default /home in NAND.... | 14:56 |
| wall[e] | should mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1 b /dev/mmcblk0p2 | 14:56 |
| wall[e] | sfdisk -c /dev/mmcblk0 2 83 | 14:57 |
| wall[e] | mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1 | 14:57 |
| wall[e] | should I edit to p2? | 14:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | the default home is not in nand | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | it's on the emmc | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | only / is on nand | 14:59 |
| wall[e] | SpeedEvil, that was meant to be searched for the line | 14:59 |
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| wall[e] | the line i want to fix is mkfs.ext3 | 15:00 |
| wall[e] | it create fs in wrong partition | 15:00 |
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| bullet_ | hey all | 15:00 |
| bullet_ | ppl running opera on m5 ? | 15:00 |
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| *** Guest2163 is now known as bullet` | 15:01 | |
| crashanddie | bullet`: do you have a full keyboard? | 15:01 |
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| bullet` | yes | 15:01 |
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| crashanddie | then use it | 15:01 |
| bullet` | rigth now typing on my laptop | 15:01 |
| bullet` | ok i'll try | 15:01 |
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| crashanddie | thanks | 15:01 |
| bullet` | so people running opera ? | 15:02 |
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| bullet` | i'm getting this "unable to install opera-mobile, application package not found" | 15:02 |
| bullet` | any idea of a work around ? | 15:02 |
| tybollt | no idea | 15:02 |
| tybollt | I get the same when I try to install Internet Explorer. :-( | 15:03 |
| bullet` | i mean, opera on n900. | 15:03 |
| Appiah | o_O | 15:03 |
| bullet` | whats do those symbols mean Appiah ? | 15:04 |
| Shapeshifter | O_o | 15:04 |
| bullet` | 0 O | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | .oO(??) | 15:05 |
| Appiah | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=O_O | 15:05 |
| bullet` | i was talking about Opera ppl :p | 15:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mooo | 15:07 |
| * DocScrutinizer googles opera-ppl | 15:07 | |
| bullet` | ahh | 15:08 |
| bullet` | google for opera-mobile | 15:08 |
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| bullet` | ppl was for people :) | 15:08 |
| wall[e] | thanks | 15:08 |
| wall[e] | i want ppl too | 15:08 |
| wall[e] | i am a people | 15:08 |
| wall[e] | where is my ppl | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I see, the 'e' and 'o' key rather worn out already, I guess | 15:08 |
| bullet` | its not released yet | 15:09 |
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| bullet` | no its not worn out, it was just not used | 15:09 |
| bullet` | its ok, | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | /mode +o #maemo crashanddie | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 15:09 |
| tybollt | yes it's quite enough now | 15:10 |
| viliny__ | anyone have any idea why flash videos aren't working in ff fennec? | 15:10 |
| viliny__ | i see flash adds working after the plugin disable false in about:config but the main video on website does not load | 15:10 |
| bullet` | but my question was, are many people facing problems installing the beta opera on n900 ? | 15:10 |
| viliny__ | missing codecs? | 15:10 |
| tybollt | viliny__: tried the beta? perhaps it is fixed? | 15:10 |
| wall[e] | final fantasy? | 15:11 |
| wall[e] | shopping! | 15:11 |
| viliny__ | tybollt: i would imagine i have the latest -> 1.0.1? | 15:11 |
| tybollt | viliny__: beta is 1.1b1 | 15:13 |
| SpeedEvil | some flash sites require >9.? | 15:13 |
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| viliny__ | tybollt: ok that i don't have, neither can i find it in the repos... where could i try it out? | 15:15 |
| viliny__ | SpeedEvil: same video works in microb | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | k\\ | 15:15 |
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| tybollt | http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/m/beta | 15:17 |
| tybollt | but ye | 15:17 |
| tybollt | what speedy says | 15:17 |
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| tybollt | if site requires flassh 10 you're SOL | 15:17 |
| Shapeshifter | flash ftl | 15:18 |
| Shapeshifter | people should stop freaking out about having flash support | 15:18 |
| viliny__ | thanks tybollt | 15:18 |
| viliny__ | and as i said, same video works with microb | 15:18 |
| tybollt | no Shapeshifter | 15:19 |
| tybollt | video FTL | 15:19 |
| viliny__ | i'm not freaking out either, watching streaming episodes on phone is useful and wondering if ff does a better job at it... just testing | 15:19 |
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| tybollt | did you read up on the ownews (was it?) piece about that? | 15:19 |
| tybollt | osnews | 15:20 |
| viliny__ | about flash10? | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~wtf sol | 15:20 |
| infobot | SOL: shit out [of] luck | 15:20 |
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| tybollt | Shapeshifter: Basically all video is royaltyware MPEG LA - even the stuff you record on your camcorder | 15:21 |
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| tybollt | there is no "free" in computer video. | 15:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer cheers to SpeedEvil | 15:22 | |
| tybollt | everything is as locked in as flash really. So utterly foofed | 15:22 |
| Termana | tybollt, surely your not talking about Jobs' accusations against Vorbis? | 15:24 |
| Termana | That or your forgetting about Vorbis | 15:24 |
| Termana | err... Theora rather | 15:25 |
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| Termana | Vorbis is audio, Theora is video | 15:26 |
| Termana | IIRC | 15:26 |
| tybollt | Termana: Tell me what JVC, Sony or other camcorder readily available in stores today that records in Ogg/Theora/Vorbis/thingamajig? | 15:26 |
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| Termana | tybollt, probably none - but that does not mean all video formats are "royaltyware" as you just implied | 15:27 |
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| thresh | who cares for theora anyway | 15:28 |
| viliny__ | i don't even know what theora is | 15:28 |
| thresh | that is probably a good thing | 15:28 |
| Termana | thresh, GTFO or I'll H.264 your arse. You'll be shitting proprietary | 15:28 |
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| tybollt | Termana: Everything that is usable basically and as soon Ogg/Theora gaisn traction they will be sued into onblivion and shut down before you know it | 15:29 |
| thresh | only freetards believe theora doesnt have any patent problems. | 15:29 |
| ruskie | tybollt, MPEG_LA believes that fairy tail... no need for the rest of the world to do so | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | This is all going to be quite irrelevant in a coupole of years - when uncompressed mbmp becomes the format of choice, as the only unencumbered format. | 15:30 |
| Termana | thresh, thats a nice iPad you must own. You probably own an iPhone, an iPod Touch, an iPod, an iPod Nano and if Steve Jobs asked you to have ghey sex with him, you would faint in disbelief that your god would want to do that | 15:30 |
| thresh | Termana: there's nothing proprietary in computer video (provided you don't live in a world's worst country) | 15:31 |
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| tybollt | SpeedEvil: was it you or someone else who said that about Ogg/Theora five years ago? ;P | 15:31 |
| thresh | haha that was nice :) | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Not me | 15:31 |
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| tybollt | thresh: if there's nothing proprietary... then howcome I still can only play a bluray disc in any of two programs available at all? | 15:33 |
| tybollt | and both of them are for windows | 15:33 |
| tybollt | \o/ | 15:33 |
| viliny__ | tybollt: tried the new beta but no luck, big empty where the flash content should be. damn | 15:33 |
| thresh | tybollt: this SoC will probably have this fixed. | 15:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: alas when these happy times arrive we will have all the music fubar by mp3-128k, and same for video I guess | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/all the/all the already existing | 15:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | Don't forget all fed through a compressor to leave 1.5dB of dynamic range | 15:34 |
| tybollt | thresh: how? GSOC is based in US innit? Means all the legal BS still apply no? | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | and as everybody ruined his ears with cheap mp3 players and his eyes with watching 'videos' on his 2.8 gameboy screen, nobody will care about high quality formats | 15:35 |
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| viliny__ | i don't need bluerays and other junk tbh - i'm actually perfectly fine with watching 640x480 divx :) | 15:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | viliny__: I agree - a 640*480 divx with good quality is more fun to watch than a HD-shit with lots of artefacts | 15:37 |
| thresh | tybollt: no idea about where it's based or other boring stuff :) BD-J will probably be implemented in VLC and libbluray. | 15:37 |
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| * DocScrutinizer curses DVB | 15:37 | |
| * thresh just bought a netbook solely for a purpose of playing back HD video | 15:37 | |
| Surfa | .. gaah.. my eyes.. hd it must be | 15:37 |
| X-Fade | lbt: Only SB1 | 15:38 |
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| lbt | X-Fade: which release? it seems to have changed | 15:39 |
| lbt | Termana: did you see this yesterday ? http://apina.biz/29334.jpg | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | what a idiotic/smart concept to filter sounds out of mp3 that I'm supposed not to hear, and mange video to reduce detail which I'm supposed not to see - I SEE/HEAR IT NEVERTHELESS | 15:41 |
| X-Fade | lbt: http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo5-sdk/main/binary-i386/ | 15:41 |
| tybollt | thresh: that's awesome but still - the keys are needed aren't they? | 15:41 |
| X-Fade | lbt: 1.0.16 | 15:41 |
| Termana | lbt, I believe so, plus its in my bookmarks, but its not showing for some reason at the moment - isn't that the picture about the iPad and at the end it has a cartoon of Jobs with 2 ipads for multi tasking and the angry face :P | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | mangle even | 15:41 |
| lbt | yes | 15:41 |
| thresh | tybollt: sure. | 15:41 |
| Termana | lbt, I actually laughed out loud for that :P | 15:41 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, as you have openmoko in your vhost i would like to ask you something | 15:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vhost? | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ahh cloak | 15:43 |
| tybollt | thresh: keys which ... one supposedly needs to pay money for. Or? | 15:43 |
| lbt | X-Fade: OK ... we need to update fake-scratchbox. We'll pre-install all the packages it provides and then just x-link them | 15:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | darn, seems it's going to be a looong question | 15:43 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, go grab some sort of stress reliever and then come back | 15:44 |
| thresh | tybollt: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 here you go :p | 15:44 |
| Termana | :P | 15:44 |
| viliny__ | heh, got good laughs from the ipad jpeg :P | 15:44 |
| ZogG | * [DocScrutinizer] (~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg): joerg | 15:44 |
| ZogG | this | 15:44 |
| thresh | tybollt: they are even available on pedowikia. | 15:44 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, so my question is how hard to port app from openmoko to maemo? | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: probably not harder / easier than porting from any other platform | 15:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Depends slightly on what your platform is | 15:45 |
| viliny__ | ...pedowikia? | 15:45 |
| SpeedEvil | qtmoko - possibly quite easy | 15:46 |
| GAN900 | Ah, Chriz Ziegler | 15:46 |
| SpeedEvil | for the new version | 15:46 |
| GAN900 | 'Maemo's official forums' | 15:46 |
| thresh | viliny__: some people also call it 'wikipedia'. | 15:46 |
| SpeedEvil | gkt environment, quite likely easy | 15:46 |
| viliny__ | thresh whats funny about pedowikia? | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~smack GAN900 | 15:46 |
| thresh | viliny__: everything? | 15:46 |
| viliny__ | :/ | 15:46 |
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| tybollt | thresh: :) very well then | 15:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (she's really a bitch) | 15:47 |
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| ZogG | SpeedEvil i think it's gtk | 15:47 |
| viliny__ | like in... encyclopedia? | 15:47 |
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| chem|st | thresh: what is the matter with you? did too many drugs at once? or less than usual? | 15:47 |
| ZogG | just found an other open gps app | 15:47 |
| thresh | chem|st: yes. | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: SHR is GTK | 15:48 |
| SpeedEvil | ZogG: tangogps? | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: QtMoko is... guess what | 15:48 |
| chem|st | thresh: so both less from one but too many of the other? | 15:48 |
| viliny__ | heh... is the ball red or blue? "Yes." | 15:48 |
| ZogG | SpeedEvil, yup | 15:48 |
| SpeedEvil | It will need to be ported over to understand the location framework | 15:48 |
| thresh | chem|st: having a bad time trying to get backups up and running after 20T filesystem corruption. | 15:48 |
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| chem|st | thresh: oh so less sleep aswell | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: which shouldn't be TOO hard | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | alas the tangoGPS original author seems to have vanished from the public | 15:50 |
| ZogG | he just went back to his planet | 15:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep, something like that | 15:50 |
| ZogG | the most wierd story about open sorce dev was about reiser dev | 15:51 |
| jacekowski | 13:35 < X-Fade> jacekowski: Quick response ;) | 15:51 |
| jacekowski | ? | 15:51 |
| jacekowski | X-Fade: ? | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah please!!! | 15:51 |
| alterego | Looks like I'm going to be sacked on Friday -_- | 15:52 |
| jacekowski | alterego: what have you done? | 15:52 |
| alterego | I think I'm being the fall guy. | 15:52 |
| alterego | It's been ongoing for about 6 months, but it should all be over by the end of this week I suspect. | 15:53 |
| tybollt | alterego: what do you do then? | 15:53 |
| alterego | I'm a software engineer, | 15:53 |
| ZogG | SpeedEvil, also if you want to port something gtk←→qt (both ends) does it mean you have to rewrite everything or just you can adopt code to new UI? | 15:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ZogG: yes | 15:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rodarvus: ([2010-05-12 12:12:46] <rodarvus> DocScrutinizer51, I was able...) A big Thank You! :-) much appreciated | 15:56 |
| ZogG | SpeedEvil, it was «OR» question =) | 15:56 |
| tybollt | alterego: sigh... but programers should be able to find new jobs easily I supposed | 15:57 |
| tybollt | suppose... | 15:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | ZogG: You either need to rewrite completely, or adapt the code. | 15:58 |
| SpeedEvil | ZogG: It depends how structured the program is - and how much it relies on features of each. | 15:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | And how large it is. | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought we got GTK on N900... o.O | 15:58 |
| SpeedEvil | If the core is a couple of dozen lines, and the interface code is 1000, porting it may not make much sense. | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | yes - that too | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | there is gtk on the device - and it seems likley to be remaining for the newar future | 15:59 |
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| ZogG | DocScrutinizer yes we do - but moving to QT, i'm of guys who prefer not to make zoo of the libs from different toolkits =) | 16:00 |
| Gizmokid2005 | anyone having any issues connecting to an AIM account with the conversations plugin? | 16:00 |
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| ZogG | also if you port it to QT you can port it to any device much easier | 16:01 |
| alterego | tybollt: that would be true, but I don't have any qualifications :/ | 16:01 |
| tybollt | uhm... ? | 16:01 |
| alterego | Getting a job being easy, sort of hard if you don't have a degree. | 16:01 |
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| pupnik | make one up | 16:02 |
| alterego | Heh | 16:02 |
| alterego | I have a 2.1 in Eyecandy ^.^ | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: that's all valid, true and fine. Anyway we'll see a lot of GTK apps on N900 for quite some years I'd guess | 16:03 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer if n900 would survive that long | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's really up to you if you want to do a low effort GTK port, or same time migrate to Qt | 16:04 |
| GAN900 | I need to get a BL-5J charger that isn't a 5800 | 16:04 |
| RST38h | Will N97 do? =) | 16:05 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, i'm more theoretical guy right now - as don't know that much about coding and don't ahve anytime =( | 16:05 |
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| ZogG | GAN900, what's wrong with 5800? | 16:05 |
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| alterego | GAN900: http://thpmaemo.blogspot.com/2009/12/charging-bl-5j-n900-battery-in-n810.html | 16:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: I'm planning to use my N900 for the next 5 years at least | 16:06 |
| ZogG | i think until i get better job me too =) | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: get a generic one | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | The UI is fundamentally OK and fast enough. And in 5 years, it's got maybe 256G of flash cheaply. | 16:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | err - 288. | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | 288??? | 16:08 |
| SpeedEvil | I would hope that SDs are available with more sane block interface | 16:08 |
| SpeedEvil | 256+32 | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ugh | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah | 16:08 |
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| * DocScrutinizer grabs his 2nd glass of coffee | 16:09 | |
| ZogG | SpeedEvil don't think SDs would be same size and standart | 16:09 |
| * tybollt hands doc a cup | 16:09 | |
| DocScrutinizer | it will | 16:09 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, it's not healthy you know | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: SDXC | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | compatible aiui | 16:10 |
| SpeedEvil | ZogG: SDXC is just coming on stream - and it's just a software tweak to get them supported | 16:10 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: curent HW going to be compatible w/ sd >32GB? | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | good question | 16:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I would expect a 256g microsdxc to support lower voltages, and a faster interface too - but it'll almost certainly be backwards compatible. | 16:11 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: As I understand it, yes. | 16:11 |
| * Arkenoi wonders why it takes two years to put 32Gb microSD to mass production | 16:11 | |
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| SpeedEvil | Arkenoi: Prices. | 16:11 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: lovely | 16:11 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer SpeedEvil but we are talking about 5 years | 16:11 |
| thresh | Arkenoi: shitloads of non-sold 16gb microSD? :) | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | ZogG: Sure - sdxc is launching at 32G. | 16:12 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: I'd expect there to be a SDHC type cap somewhere prior to 256GB but... | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: The interface to the SD is basically similar to a network interface. | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, yes. So it will take ~28h to 'dd if=/dev/random of=/media/mmc1' | 16:12 |
| ZogG | today we have dozens of cpu types when several years ago it was pentium 1 -2 -3 -4 and now it's not like that. it's more like tree | 16:12 |
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| thresh | well that's just not true | 16:13 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: It's not really deeply programmed to support the SD/... protocol | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | SDHC is end of the road with 32G | 16:13 |
| thresh | we had a lot of cpus ten or fifteen years ago. they just died. | 16:13 |
| SpeedEvil | powerpc | 16:13 |
| ZogG | "Samsung Rolls Out 256GB SD Memory Card" | 16:13 |
| SpeedEvil | (which is mostly dead) | 16:13 |
| SpeedEvil | ZogG: that's gigabits | 16:14 |
| Arkenoi | powerpc is not quite dead | 16:14 |
| SpeedEvil | mostly | 16:14 |
| SpeedEvil | freescale still sells them for use in cars. | 16:14 |
| thresh | not really dead | 16:14 |
| Arkenoi | some game consoles still use it afair | 16:14 |
| SpeedEvil | alpha is dead? | 16:14 |
| thresh | some? :)) | 16:14 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: nokia strategy "sorry you need that new phone to support that type of card" why would this strategy not apply for N900? | 16:14 |
| thresh | wii, ps3, xbox360 arent "some" | 16:14 |
| SpeedEvil | mips is going strong. | 16:14 |
| ZogG | SpeedEvil i meant not different companies i meant the same company | 16:15 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: we can build our own kernels. | 16:15 |
| ZogG | now we have analogs of the same company, cpu for that and that. | 16:15 |
| Arkenoi | but i doubt ppc will ever reclaim desktop market | 16:15 |
| RST38h | Moo Arkenoi | 16:16 |
| Arkenoi | moo | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: 2..3 processors from intel nowadays? wake up guy! | 16:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | They sold strongarm | 16:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: sorry scratch that | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | misread | 16:18 |
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| ZogG | they just don't go straight road anymore | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | (and to whom it may concern, I prefer my late macchiato in a large *glass* rather than a cup) | 16:19 |
| * DocScrutinizer grabs coffee | 16:19 | |
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| ZogG | i prefer only 2-3 types of glass than a cup, otherwise i would liek a cup | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | you bet hat glass serves me fine | 16:20 |
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| ZogG | DocScrutinizer i'm happy when you are happy | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't say that, you never experienced it yet ;-P | 16:22 |
| ZogG | yeap, and all orgasms were fake too =( | 16:22 |
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| MohammadAG | o.O | 16:22 |
| ZogG | Openfree, have you seen Closedexpensive? | 16:23 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, hey | 16:23 |
| GAN900 | alterego, no N810 here. | 16:24 |
| Shapeshifter | tybollt: interesting | 16:24 |
| Shapeshifter | tybollt: ogm :) | 16:24 |
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| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, IBM's pushing PPC still. | 16:26 |
| alterego | GAN900: unlucky :( | 16:26 |
| GAN900 | meh | 16:26 |
| GAN900 | Hated the keyboard. | 16:26 |
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| RST38h | IBM is still pushing AS400, so it is not saying much... | 16:26 |
| GAN900 | Well, Power 4, 5 etc. | 16:27 |
| GAN900 | It's a bit more advanced than an AS400 | 16:27 |
| thresh | yeah, like those would not be needed to support old installations in critical areas. | 16:28 |
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| alterego | GAN900: the N810 keypad? | 16:28 |
| GAN900 | alterego, yes. | 16:29 |
| alterego | Didn't think it was too bad, do you prefer the N900's? :P | 16:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: well, if it wasn't a question of individual preferences, I'd say you're insane | 16:34 |
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| alterego | Heh | 16:34 |
| alterego | I quite liked the N810 keypad, not sure if I prefer the N900's, the fact it's smaller, kind of makes it lose points, but then, the keys are easier I think. | 16:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | I got up to 30wpm in quite short order - using it for a week basically | 16:36 |
| crashanddie | a lot easier | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: then otoh when I consider your live-reporter action words-per-minute on N900, I have to admit N900 is the right kbd for you ;-D | 16:36 |
| crashanddie | alterego: the n810's keyboard had almost no tactile feedback, even sliding between keys provided no feedback | 16:36 |
| Disconnect | i keep hitting m instead of space. :/ | 16:36 |
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| MohammadAG | you'll get used to it | 16:37 |
| alterego | Disconnect: I got that for a while, not so much anymore :) | 16:37 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: he's used to playing with small things :P | 16:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 16:37 |
| cehteh | uurgs btrfs for meego? ... | 16:37 |
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| cehteh | i like it, but in my experiments so far i was always able to crash it, its not really stable yet | 16:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Disconnect: same here | 16:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: no,myou'remgoingmtomgetusedmtomitm;-P | 16:39 |
| MohammadAG | Imalreadymgotmusedmtomit | 16:40 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 16:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bhappit'nobackspacinsteaom | 16:41 |
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| lbt | any python / unicode people here? | 16:42 |
| lbt | I'm trying to do codecs.ascii.encode(res.group('version'), 'replace') | 16:42 |
| lbt | and codecs.ascii is wrong | 16:42 |
| lbt | despite http://docs.python.org/library/codecs.html#standard-encodings | 16:42 |
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| * DocScrutinizer cloudy recalls to have seen similar thing in USSDpad | 16:45 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe not | 16:45 |
| wall[e] | why my n900 is mounted as 6D46-96EE, i wonder | 16:46 |
| wall[e] | over an ubuntu | 16:46 |
| wall[e] | i repartitioned it | 16:46 |
| MohammadAG__ | vendor ID and something | 16:46 |
| MohammadAG__ | device ID i think | 16:46 |
| MohammadAG__ | lsusb to find out | 16:47 |
| ruskie | wall[e], disxid | 16:47 |
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| wall[e] | ah, thanks | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yo | 16:47 |
| wall[e] | can I change it? | 16:47 |
| wall[e] | to CuteCuteN900 as usual? | 16:47 |
| ruskie | wall[e], you could use tune2fs to add a label | 16:48 |
| wall[e] | ruskie, thanks! | 16:48 |
| ruskie | I think ubuntu might respect that | 16:48 |
| wall[e] | poNy900 | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly | 16:48 |
| wall[e] | ok | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | though on buntkuh you never know | 16:48 |
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| ruskie | true | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://xkcd.com/424/ | 16:49 |
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| alterego | What's the keyboard shortcut to open the terminal? | 16:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | might as well display "Shuttleworth" for the name | 16:50 |
| E0x | my n900 on archlinux is get mount as n900 | 16:50 |
| E0x | the but not get the n900 icon setup to the volumen | 16:50 |
| E0x | like windows does | 16:50 |
| E0x | :( | 16:50 |
| joga | alterego: ctrl-shift-x | 16:50 |
| wall[e] | haha | 16:51 |
| alterego | joga: thanks ;) | 16:51 |
| wall[e] | E0x, it uses .n900.ico ? | 16:51 |
| E0x | look like windows does | 16:51 |
| E0x | but gnome don't do the trick | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's windows? | 16:52 |
| wall[e] | i think gnome don't bother parsing autorun | 16:52 |
| wall[e] | i admire that! | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol muhaha | 16:52 |
| E0x | wall[e]: is work with my Bad company cd | 16:52 |
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| E0x | it* | 16:52 |
| E0x | when i put the Bad Company cd , gnome put the icon of BC on it | 16:52 |
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| wall[e] | oh | 16:53 |
| MohammadAG__ | .ico? | 16:53 |
| * DocScrutinizer is going to write a .bat JIT-compiler and shell to execute | 16:53 | |
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| wall[e] | for autorun? | 16:53 |
| E0x | MohammadAG__: hmm not sure | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | finally!!!! msdos batch file run on linux | 16:53 |
| wall[e] | may be you can try dosbox? | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | blah | 16:54 |
| wall[e] | if you were serious but you didn't | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | too simple | 16:54 |
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| wall[e] | i want ecma compiler | 16:54 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG__ today is especially horny? | 16:55 |
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| MohammadAG | x.x | 16:55 |
| wall[e] | on mac it has .VolumeIcon.icns | 16:55 |
| wall[e] | what gnome use for icon? | 16:55 |
| MohammadAG | .png | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 16:56 |
| MohammadAG | or .xpm | 16:56 |
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| wall[e] | i want apng! | 16:56 |
| MohammadAG | i want mp4 | 16:56 |
| MohammadAG | seriously... | 16:56 |
| wall[e] | i want 3d w/o glasses ts | 16:56 |
| * DocScrutinizer considers each report of 'doesn't behave like windows' to be a feature rather than a problem | 16:57 | |
| wall[e] | but i guess that must choose between portrait and landscape | 16:57 |
| * wall[e] never use windows | 16:57 | |
| DocScrutinizer | wall[e]: nope - just use frontcam for iris detection | 16:57 |
| alterego | I like Ari acting all sad talking about the N900 and Palm developing a device on their code and getting it done before Nokia ^.^ | 16:58 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders who's got that patent | 16:58 | |
| wall[e] | ah interesting | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | somebody does, for sure | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: yeah, but quite late to comment on that one | 16:59 |
| wall[e] | how do i query current volume label? | 17:00 |
| alterego | :) | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: also shows Nokia hasn't yet got their heads wrapped around the whole FOSS thing yet | 17:00 |
| alterego | I'm watching the Linux Collaboration summit | 17:00 |
| alterego | presentations | 17:00 |
| E0x | wall[e]: for vfat with mtools | 17:01 |
| wall[e] | E0x, thanks! | 17:01 |
| E0x | man mlabel | 17:01 |
| E0x | wall[e]: http://embraceubuntu.com/2006/03/01/editing-fat32-partition-labels-using-mtools/ | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ubuntu wall[e] | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~useless | 17:02 |
| * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :( | 17:02 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen timriker | 17:03 |
| infobot | timriker <timr@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker> was last seen on IRC in channel #saygus, 10h 40m 27s ago, saying: 'my launcher is a ground launcher, but similar in design to this one: http://www.sciencetoymaker.org/waterRocket/'. | 17:03 |
| wall[e] | E0x, thanks! | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly he shot infobot right in her forehead with that launcher thing | 17:04 |
| wall[e] | hiehie | 17:06 |
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| wall[e] | E0x, works! thanks! | 17:09 |
| wall[e] | ~ubuntu | 17:10 |
| infobot | ubuntu is probably caca from this ass http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3843/18427557718e22857e9rb.jpg | 17:10 |
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| RurouniJones | Any Japan based N900 users who have managed to get the f#$%"('%ing thing woring with a Japanese network without separate hardware or a huge data bill? | 17:11 |
| TigerTael | mm? | 17:11 |
| Disconnect | anyone got a faq on finding out where your rootfs space all went? it was a little startling to discover only 1.9 megs free. | 17:12 |
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| wall[e] | i wrote a script a couple days ago | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ping | 17:12 |
| infobot | ~pong | 17:12 |
| achipa | uuurgh | 17:12 |
| wall[e] | for each packages, dpkg -L |grep | 17:13 |
| BCMM | i'd really like to see something a bit like Konqueror's File Size View | 17:13 |
| * achipa has just been blinded with size 48 fonts in the meego list | 17:13 | |
| BCMM | (where directories occupy screen space proportional to disk usage) | 17:13 |
| E0x | wall[e]: cool | 17:13 |
| wall[e] | and sum the data usage | 17:13 |
| Disconnect | looks like a big part of it is themes. (well, 30 megs anyway) | 17:13 |
| Disconnect | that seems excessive, since i don't use most of them ever :) | 17:13 |
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| E0x | package view app | 17:14 |
| E0x | tell you | 17:14 |
| hrw | use ncdu? | 17:14 |
| E0x | Disconnect: PackageView tell you the size of eatch package installed | 17:15 |
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| E0x | but some package use extra data that are not listed there | 17:15 |
| wall[e] | will they filter partitions ? | 17:15 |
| E0x | example the .pak0 files for quake2 | 17:15 |
| Disconnect | packages that stick that data on rootfs should be slapped | 17:16 |
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| wall[e] | ah | 17:16 |
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| * RurouniJones continues on his quest to get N900 working nicely in Japan. | 17:17 | |
| * Disconnect was doing what he'd do on any other box - poke around with du and df :) themes are the easiest target, since most of them interfere with the app look&feel and so I won't miss them in teh slightest | 17:17 | |
| BCMM | Disconnect: you can also list installed applications by size in the app manager | 17:17 |
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| Disconnect | is it a safe bet that 90+ % of what is on rootfs is installed apps? (and, conversely, that their app-manager size is going to reflect mostly rootfs?) | 17:18 |
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| RST38h | no | 17:18 |
| twoboxen | Is thursday a finnish holiday? | 17:19 |
| BCMM | one could enable ssh, and use konqueror and fish:// | 17:19 |
| BCMM | maybe | 17:19 |
| RST38h | first of all, rootfs is compressed, so the actual space taken by a file is not the same as the file size | 17:19 |
| BCMM | but fish:// isn't working here | 17:19 |
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| E0x | i run x11vnc , how i stop it ? | 17:20 |
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| BCMM_ | E0x: kill from shell | 17:20 |
| wall[e] | killall x11vnc | 17:20 |
| BCMM_ | or connect to it | 17:20 |
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| wall[e] | actually disconnect would do it | 17:20 |
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| wall[e] | ok | 17:20 |
| E0x | hmm i saw that x11vnc dont have password | 17:20 |
| wall[e] | 0:1 | 17:20 |
| wall[e] | you can assign | 17:21 |
| BCMM_ | since iirc it terminates afterconnection ends | 17:21 |
| E0x | cool | 17:21 |
| E0x | that work | 17:21 |
| wall[e] | but you can just... | 17:21 |
| wall[e] | connect first | 17:21 |
| wall[e] | it won't share | 17:21 |
| wall[e] | and will die after you disconnect | 17:21 |
| E0x | yes i see that, thx | 17:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Any thoughts about what I should assign/search for a bug in auto-setting time under? | 17:22 |
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| wall[e] | now I really enjoy my new partitioning scheme | 17:23 |
| wall[e] | /dev/mmcblk0p1 : start= 64, size= 27271168, Id= c | 17:23 |
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| wall[e] | 13GB is enough for everybody | 17:24 |
| * wall[e] repartition just for torrents | 17:24 | |
| E0x | torrent download in the n900 ? | 17:24 |
| wall[e] | E0x, yes | 17:25 |
| E0x | :\ | 17:25 |
| SpeedEvil | I guess clock | 17:25 |
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| E0x | that is only for casual download | 17:25 |
| Disconnect | ok just removed 60 megs of stuff (2 games) according to package manager list. i gained a whopping 100k on rootfs :/ | 17:25 |
| wall[e] | E0x, consume less electricity than my main machine, i guess | 17:25 |
| * frals waits for the "OMG PR1.2 CONFIRMED FOR THIS MONTH" frenzy after reading -devel ML | 17:25 | |
| jacekowski | well most apps are on /opt | 17:25 |
| frals | ~rootfs | 17:25 |
| infobot | hmm... rootfs is mount ro, but all the nessary files that need to be writen to are created in a ramdisk that is rw | 17:25 |
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| jacekowski | frals: srsly? | 17:25 |
| jacekowski | frals: isn't it rw? | 17:26 |
| wall[e] | E0x, and my wireless is too old for torrent enabled | 17:26 |
| Disconnect | ah. so "why is my rootfs full" is a nonsensical question. i'm good with that. | 17:26 |
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| wall[e] | firmware | 17:26 |
| wall[e] | openwrt | 17:26 |
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| frals | bah, theres some wikipage that has a script for finding all the large files | 17:26 |
| frals | thought that'd link to it, but alas no :p | 17:26 |
| wall[e] | or it has space for that | 17:26 |
| wall[e] | find can find last find | 17:26 |
| Disconnect | jacekowski: it is rw but if its supposed to be mostly full i'm not worried. thats like going "omg why is my cdrom full" :) | 17:27 |
| E0x | maybe will need port disk usage analyzer | 17:27 |
| E0x | http://www.exnol.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/disk-usage-anlyser.png | 17:27 |
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| wall[e] | someone here suggested using find with time | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 17:28 |
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| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs | 17:28 |
| wall[e] | may be using find time and plot graph | 17:28 |
| wall[e] | for disk usage | 17:28 |
| wall[e] | install gnuplot | 17:28 |
| wall[e] | haha | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | du -h /|sort -n | 17:28 |
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| Disconnect | DocScrutinizer: du -k | sort -n | 17:29 |
| * lcuk looks sideways | 17:29 | |
| DocScrutinizer | err, even | 17:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | du -kx | 17:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | / | sort -n | 17:29 |
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| wall[e] | may be du is hard to find certain package? | 17:30 |
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| E0x | ah better | 17:30 |
| wall[e] | coz each may install things everywhere | 17:30 |
| E0x | -ah | 17:30 |
| * frals throws a trout at lcuk from behind | 17:30 | |
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| * DocScrutinizer looks at lcuk looking sideways, and wonders what a strange practice... | 17:31 | |
| lcuk | well DocScrutinizer 2 minutes ago i used that device for sending an sms | 17:31 |
| lcuk | i didnt hear any death rattles or anything | 17:31 |
| wall[e] | but a file that was generated and remove by install/uninstalling script won't be listed in dpkg -L ? | 17:31 |
| lcuk | mind you i stepped outside | 17:31 |
| lcuk | omg @ glowing wolf eyes boot up logo | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ffs | 17:32 |
| lcuk | i feel i need 3 wolf moon shirt | 17:32 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders when the 'DONT PANIC' bootscreen he suggested will hit the repos | 17:33 | |
| TigerTael | haha | 17:33 |
| wall[e] | i wish package are done in Appole's way | 17:33 |
| lcuk | how does Appole do it? | 17:34 |
| wall[e] | store things in .app | 17:34 |
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| alterego | Eh? | 17:34 |
| alterego | .crapp | 17:34 |
| SpeedEvil | wall[e]: That has annoying issues of its own. | 17:34 |
| lcuk | i dont mind that | 17:34 |
| wall[e] | SpeedEvil, yes true but | 17:34 |
| SpeedEvil | wall[e]: Primarily that no app can touch any other apps files | 17:34 |
| Disconnect | lcuk: if he means apple, they have a fairly cool setup. (well, for apps. for packages its a complete hairy nightmare) | 17:34 |
| lcuk | i also strongly dislike the linux filesystem spew | 17:34 |
| * DocScrutinizer starts to grep irclogs to figure whom to slap with a large trout | 17:34 | |
| * SpeedEvil gets out his book of trout recipies. | 17:35 | |
| range | Larger trout and everybody | 17:35 |
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| Disconnect | lcuk: they basically just say "if a directory ends in .app, its like a jar with metadata, resources and executables and all that is hidden from the user" | 17:35 |
| wall[e] | SpeedEvil, but i guess i am more tire with others | 17:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | wall[e]: Which has all sorts of odd problems - lack of a globally accessible filesystem on the device is icky. | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | gfx people, always so err.... :x | 17:35 |
| lcuk | Disconnect, sure | 17:36 |
| SpeedEvil | wall[e]: Leading to stuff like bouncing from external filesharing services. | 17:36 |
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| wall[e] | SpeedEvil, may be a better design, shouldn't store user data in .app | 17:37 |
| Disconnect | lcuk: they also have an installable-package format that is a complete mess and has no user-visible uninstaller, lister, etc. (think windows updates circa 95, only without even a list) | 17:37 |
| wall[e] | they don't, anyway | 17:37 |
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| Disconnect | and it throws user data in ~/Library/Application Support/appname (by convention - some apps don't, esp if they were straight-ported from a real unix/linux) | 17:37 |
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| wall[e] | stuffs in .app shouldn't be shared, kinda, encapsulation | 17:37 |
| Termana | I believe there actually is a site that has Linux applications in a format similar to Apples .app - as long as you install their app first of course | 17:38 |
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| wall[e] | like gnustep or what? | 17:38 |
| Disconnect | Termana: there was a dist that did that at one point | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: It's called slackware | 17:38 |
| lcuk | theres good ponts for and against | 17:38 |
| lcuk | and some apps suit encapsulated folders | 17:39 |
| lcuk | others like to spew | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen t-tan | 17:39 |
| infobot | t-tan <~tanner@g227082229.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 21h 33m 54s ago, saying: 'Stskeeps: morning'. | 17:39 |
| Termana | SpeedEvil, :P This was actually for Ubuntu/Debian I think | 17:39 |
| Termana | Rather than a whole distro :P | 17:39 |
| Termana | It just had an app you had to install ontop of Ubuntu/Debian and then a heap of application downloads | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | java. | 17:40 |
| Termana | Funny | 17:40 |
| Termana | But I'm not an idiot | 17:40 |
| * SpeedEvil points his idiot-meter at Termana. | 17:40 | |
| wall[e] | i think slackware's tgz spread files everywhere? | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | wall[e]: yes - but they are one file. :) | 17:40 |
| hawai`i | In a controlled manner. | 17:40 |
| wall[e] | hehe | 17:41 |
| lcuk | a lot of the new generation of qt apps keep most everything in their /opt folder | 17:41 |
| lcuk | with just a .desktop file pointing into it | 17:41 |
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| ruskie | lcuk, only if configured so | 17:41 |
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| lcuk | ruskie, sure | 17:42 |
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| ruskie | and making something like .App for linux system should be easy enough... though I'd probably use some fuse fs to mount the generate app image rw or ro depending on the needs etc... | 17:42 |
| lcuk | but its incredibly motivating to dive into a folder thats the same layout on device as your source (because you used pyqt or something) | 17:42 |
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| thresh | yeah, and bring back the thell of static libraries. | 17:42 |
| thresh | -t | 17:43 |
| ruskie | thresh, only if badly setup | 17:43 |
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| Disconnect | thresh: there's nothing that says it has to be static libraries except your assumptions. | 17:43 |
| thresh | you said it yourself "like .App" ;-) | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Shared libs are damn near mandatory in the devices RAM we have | 17:43 |
| Disconnect | want to get really creative, your metadata could include hardlinks to the libraries you need. | 17:43 |
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| ruskie | thresh, like .App but as I don't know how those actually work in the end | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | If we're going that way - I'd like to run each app chrooted too | 17:44 |
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| ruskie | SpeedEvil, easy... lxc | 17:44 |
| Disconnect | thresh: i wasn't the one saying it was ideal for embedded systems, i just explained what it was because it sounded like lcuk didn't know | 17:44 |
| thresh | chrooted is easy. | 17:44 |
| thresh | ok | 17:44 |
| lcuk | Disconnect, :) i know alright | 17:44 |
| ruskie | thresh, but I was assuming something like .Lib and .App | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | thresh: yes - chrooted is quite easy - though that alone isn't quite isolation. | 17:44 |
| Termana | SpeedEvil, http://www.appbundles.org/ I think this is it maybe | 17:44 |
| ruskie | just to have a differentation between them | 17:44 |
| ruskie | and libs would add themselves to /etc/ld.so.conf or one could do some LD_LIBRARY_PATH magic | 17:45 |
| ruskie | etc.. | 17:45 |
| ruskie | there are ways | 17:45 |
| ruskie | just nobody really bothers with that | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | fhddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | It would be so nice if there was a bounty for improving memory footprint for common stuff | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | (and oops) | 17:45 |
| Disconnect | fwiw android security is about the only way to realistically isolate apps on an embedded system. (if you strip out the java weirdness, binder, etc you get "one user per app, packages can request shared uid or shared gid, data goes in an app-specific place, permissions are granted per-uid"..) | 17:45 |
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| ruskie | Disconnect, lxc | 17:46 |
| wall[e] | i think on xnu they have daemon for that anywhere library? | 17:46 |
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| ruskie | anyway off to do other things than discuss dreamy non-existant future scenarios | 17:46 |
| wall[e] | which slow down system a lot? | 17:46 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, memory is as precious as battery and cpu and time - reducing all of them is possible for different amounts of work - step by step we will all get there | 17:46 |
| Termana | SpeedEvil, I'm sorry it was actually this one - http://klik.atekon.de/ | 17:46 |
| wall[e] | (.framework) | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: no, we won't. | 17:47 |
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| lcuk | fine, we wont | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Apps will continue to expand as RAM becomes available. | 17:47 |
| ruskie | yeah because most coders today go: disk is cheap cpu is cheap mem is cheap etc... is cheap | 17:47 |
| ruskie | I still remember back in the day when I ran X on 32mb of mem | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | And there is only one response to that. | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | YOUR MOM IS CHEAP! | 17:47 |
| lcuk | then they see shiney new n900 device and their app runs like shite | 17:47 |
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| ruskie | lcuk, and proclaim the device shite | 17:48 |
| lcuk | optimise now and save tomorrows batteries | 17:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: also - it's a shiny smartphone now. The 256M RAM pricepoint will rapidly move down | 17:48 |
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| * RST38h notices that Opera10 somehow manages not to expand to fill all the available ram | 17:48 | |
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| SpeedEvil | RST38h: File a bug. | 17:49 |
| RST38h | While Fennec will eat all your ram and all your cache too | 17:49 |
| RST38h | Funny, isn't it? | 17:49 |
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| GAN900 | Hilarious | 17:49 |
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| GAN900 | No Flash, though. | 17:49 |
| lcuk | hurrah?! | 17:50 |
| RST38h | screw flash | 17:50 |
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| GAN900 | I love that they had to bring their own repo to do it. | 17:50 |
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| RST38h | screw thast too | 17:50 |
| wall[e] | force file registration for each package wouldn't be a too bad idea i guess.. | 17:50 |
| wall[e] | or folder for temp files | 17:50 |
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| Disconnect | if apps couldn't write all over the world, it'd be very easy to monitor their usage. "du -h /opt/apps/data/app-foo/" | 17:51 |
| * RST38h doubts having their own repo will hurt opera's popularity | 17:51 | |
| wall[e] | doesn't mean dependency system should be revoked though | 17:51 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, we're all well aware of your opinions on the subject. | 17:51 |
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| wall[e] | but it's like encapsulation w/o aggregation | 17:52 |
| lcuk | Disconnect, if apps stuck to a folder and were already on opt you wouldnt have started this investigation | 17:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | opt is so loser's last realm | 17:55 |
| lcuk | whats the better solution | 17:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 17:56 |
| infobot | rumour has it, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | the partitioning is FUBAR -> fix partitioning | 17:57 |
| * wall[e] thinks it's something to do with OO | 17:57 | |
| lcuk | how | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | move /usr and /var to eMMC | 17:57 |
| lcuk | what about /opt files now? | 17:57 |
| wall[e] | files should be no more | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the classic orthodoc unix way to handle this problem | 17:57 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: it you move /usr and /var, what's the / good for anyway ? ;) | 17:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for /bin /sbin, /etc /libs | 17:58 |
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| achipa | none of that is apps | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | huh? | 17:58 |
| achipa | (well, etc is, but it's lighweight) | 17:58 |
| achipa | what user apps put stuff in /bin /sbin or /libs ? | 17:59 |
| wall[e] | there's something in NSApis like zone allocation | 17:59 |
| RST38h | GAN900: jolly good then! =) | 17:59 |
| achipa | (emphasis on USER) | 17:59 |
| ruskie | leave / for the base boot system and the rest on the emmc | 17:59 |
| ruskie | as it is one can't even move /usr over | 17:59 |
| ruskie | it breaks | 17:59 |
| lcuk | is this what btrfs is meant to solve btw | 17:59 |
| wall[e] | NSZone, wonder if that thing went obsolete in iphone. | 17:59 |
| ruskie | because early boot relies on things in /usr | 18:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jr@halley:~> which oocalc | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | /usr/bin/oocalc | 18:00 |
| * achipa wishes if Nokia hats published their results with regard to eMMC speed testing | 18:00 | |
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| achipa | DocScrutinizer: that's /usr, not /bin :) | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | so that's why I said [2010-05-12 16:57:26] <DocScrutinizer> move /usr and /var to eMMC | 18:01 |
| wall[e] | i think he want app to take advantage of faster fs? | 18:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wall[e]: yeah, all the 7GB of them | 18:02 |
| achipa | what I'm saying is that if you move /usr and /var, you're basically not using the root for anything substantial | 18:02 |
| achipa | just booting | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | for the SYSTEM!! | 18:02 |
| alterego | Wow, that guy's an ass | 18:02 |
| achipa | sys-what ? | 18:02 |
| wall[e] | wow i hate unix :) | 18:03 |
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| achipa | seriously, all apps (including system ones) are in /usr/bin and usr/lib and keep files in /var | 18:03 |
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| achipa | and /bin /sbin /lib is really-really low level unix stuff you generally do not use all that often | 18:03 |
| wall[e] | lib shouldn't be shared, they should be run and register as NSServices :P | 18:04 |
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| achipa | (okay, maybe /lib has a lib or two, but not nearly as much as /usr/lib) | 18:04 |
| * DocScrutinizer shakes head, yawns, and wanders off to the left | 18:04 | |
| achipa | :) | 18:04 |
| * wall[e] goes painting more chicks | 18:04 | |
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| achipa | the thing is... you don't want the rootfs to be empty... you want to use as much of it as possible without letting it bork the system by getting full | 18:05 |
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| lcuk | wall[e], its quicker if you hold them by their feet and dunk them in the tin | 18:06 |
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| achipa | swap + root + data on the same device is not necessarily a good idea | 18:06 |
| * lcuk has had this discussion many times | 18:06 | |
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| wall[e] | i think not all part of an app should be using a faster service area | 18:07 |
| achipa | with chicks or opt people ? | 18:07 |
| wall[e] | eg, some part of code shouldn't be load often | 18:07 |
| lcuk | lol opt | 18:07 |
| wall[e] | so a single elf should be splitted | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | "we want fast access to /usr/bin, so let's put this on NAND aka rootfs. OOPSIE rootfs gets terribly crowded, so let's symlink all apps from /usr/bin to /home/opt" - don't you think that's somewhat weird and wrong? | 18:07 |
| achipa | wall[e]: say hello to /opt :) | 18:07 |
| wall[e] | a single file i am talking about :) | 18:08 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, individual file symlinking made me wince | 18:08 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: what I'm sayins is sticking everything on the eMMC and watch it iowait till eternity is just as wrong | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: get a better device then | 18:08 |
| achipa | symlinking is just a patch of a patch... | 18:08 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: waiting for it, but they won't give me a prerelase one, dammit ! | 18:09 |
| * wall[e] tries to remember beos | 18:09 | |
| achipa | android is doing the same cludgy thing btw :) | 18:09 |
| achipa | just waiting to see how they call opt :) | 18:09 |
| wall[e] | hws are cheap! | 18:10 |
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| * wall[e] runs. | 18:10 | |
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| achipa | wall[e]: it's not even necessarily about money... PoP NAND size choices are rather limited | 18:10 |
| achipa | nowadays it's still around 512MB with the occasional 1GB fattie | 18:11 |
| wall[e] | yeh sarcasm | 18:11 |
| MohammadAG_ | what does Connection Refused mean :/ | 18:11 |
| lcuk | means you fail and must hand in your geek card | 18:12 |
| wall[e] | i think it's bad to mix namespace with storage | 18:12 |
| wall[e] | like unix | 18:12 |
| MohammadAG_ | it worked | 18:12 |
| MohammadAG_ | Nokia-N900:~# Write failed: Broken pipe <--- wtf | 18:12 |
| wall[e] | root of all problems... | 18:12 |
| achipa | MohammadAG_: it means that Mr Connection changed it's fuses. | 18:12 |
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| wall[e] | just me, i am just a lost artist, i knows nothing | 18:13 |
| wall[e] | can't wait for hurd | 18:13 |
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| wall[e] | since they move ns to server thread level whatever. | 18:13 |
| achipa | what concerns me more is that all OMAP3s I've seem have 256/256 mem... even 3640s... | 18:14 |
| achipa | s/seem/seen/ | 18:14 |
| infobot | achipa meant: what concerns me more is that all OMAP3s I've seen have 256/256 mem... even 3640s... | 18:14 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 18:14 | |
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| timeless_mbp | sudo threatened to report an attempt by root to sudo | 18:14 |
| timeless_mbp | well, it tried, it was thwarted by the fact that the mail daemon on this machine wasn't configured :) | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: if you have a particular file (e.g. a large lookup table) in your eMMC resident /usr/bin, and you want to speed it up, you either mmap it and let the (hopefully fast nanad based) swap do the rest, or you link it back to a /speed-opt-auxiliary file on rootfs | 18:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/nanad/NAND | 18:15 |
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| achipa | well, will be interesting to see what the solution in Harmattan will be in any case :) | 18:16 |
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| Disconnect | wow. awesome. /var/cache/apt/archives is on rootfs. | 18:17 |
| Disconnect | there's my missing space. | 18:17 |
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| MohammadAG_ | <achipa> MohammadAG_: it means that Mr Connection changed it's fuses. | 18:19 |
| MohammadAG_ | apparently rebooting doesn't change them back | 18:19 |
| MohammadAG_ | grr | 18:19 |
| Disconnect | try a factory reset | 18:19 |
| MohammadAG_ | no thanks | 18:19 |
| Disconnect | thats what fixed it for the last guy | 18:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Disconnect: see? /var on rootfs - MEGAFAIL | 18:20 |
| Disconnect | DocScrutinizer: cache on rootfs is fail. cache should be on tmpfs. or at least get wiped when it reboots. | 18:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | and var/spool??? :-P | 18:22 |
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| Disconnect | spool is frequently work to be done. that doesn't get invalidated by rebooting (think mail) cache is supposed to be temporary, or at least replacable | 18:23 |
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| Disconnect | so without getting into release dates, etc, does anyone know if the leaked 1.2 images added a prompt on shutdown? (an 'are you sure' or 'turn device off?' etc) | 18:30 |
| hawai`i | Nope. | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | fail | 18:31 |
| lcuk | fail? | 18:31 |
| pupnik | channel ops should kick for stupid 1.2 questions | 18:31 |
| Disconnect | it wouldn't be so annoying if it didn't lag so frequently. so a click on what should be "desktop menu" ends up being "turn off device and throw everything away". | 18:31 |
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| lcuk | you have to press a hardware button then a specific place | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | disco: you can disable long-press IIRC | 18:31 |
| hawai`i | The buttons are right close to each other. I think a confirmation dialog would have been a nice option. | 18:32 |
| Disconnect | lcuk: not that specific. its the same place as the front-most-app menu, as desktop's "add shortcut", as everything else. and immediately above "change profile". | 18:32 |
| lcuk | Disconnect, but you need to press the hardware button to get that | 18:33 |
| Disconnect | even without lag you get to go through "lemme mute this....sonofabitch. hang on. lemme turn it on... grr startup sound, sorry. lemme mute it again." | 18:33 |
| MohammadAG_ | I use my hardware muter | 18:34 |
| MohammadAG_ | 3.5mm jack | 18:34 |
| hawai`i | a lead pouch? | 18:34 |
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| achipa | my two 10-clicks-to-do-something-trivial is still the volume in chat and initiating a SIP/Skype call from the phone menu when you're offline | 18:34 |
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| MohammadAG_ | Disconnect, remove the button | 18:34 |
| * Disconnect never accidentally turned off any other device with the ease and simplicity of this one. 9300 doesn't really turn off at all. e90 has a prompt that - iirc - includes rebooting. | 18:34 | |
| MohammadAG_ | Symbian devices never had confirmation dialogs | 18:35 |
| Disconnect | need to file a bug, keep forgetting. was on a call the other day and witter (or some ohter app) popped to the foreground to tell me it had no connection. took - with lag, etc - about a minute to get the phone app back so that I could end the call. | 18:35 |
| hawai`i | Symbian devices didn't need rebooting :D | 18:35 |
| MohammadAG_ | They needed hard resets | 18:35 |
| hawai`i | I've never hard reset my E71 | 18:35 |
| MohammadAG_ | you're special | 18:35 |
| hawai`i | My helmet says so. | 18:36 |
| Disconnect | finding out right now, the wif has my old e90. i'm pretty sure it has an are-you-sure prompt. and its symbian. | 18:36 |
| achipa | MohammadAG_: though if I think about it, shutdown on Symbian works just like on the N900 | 18:36 |
| Disconnect | well... grr. finding out when she gets out of the meeting | 18:36 |
| MohammadAG_ | achipa, yes | 18:36 |
| achipa | power button, pick shutdown and off you go... no further confirmation | 18:36 |
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| Disconnect | part of that is that there is no touchscreen. so you're less likely to accidentally select the wrong entry. ditto for lag - it flushes the input queue before displaying the menu. | 18:37 |
| Disconnect | so you are way less likely (nearly impossible) to have it take unrelated queued input and turn off. | 18:38 |
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| achipa | yes, input queue can be a bitch | 18:39 |
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| GAN900 | Yo, achipa. | 18:44 |
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| achipa | yo GA | 18:44 |
| E0x | input queue ? | 18:44 |
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| Disconnect | E0x: ever type faster than the computer (or phone) can read and it churns through all the missed input? thats an input queue. (and it works on touchscreen/mouse input too) | 18:45 |
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| E0x | oh | 18:48 |
| E0x | maybe i don't type that fast | 18:48 |
| E0x | for saw that effect | 18:48 |
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| Macer | hi | 18:53 |
| wall[e] | what does HR mean? | 18:54 |
| Disconnect | E0x: you can see it on the n900 pretty easy. open firefox and microb to a couple of pages, then start trying to use it :) | 18:55 |
| andre__ | wall[e], "Human Ressources"? | 18:56 |
| Disconnect | hybrid rabbits | 18:56 |
| wall[e] | andre__, no, something about reflash? I dont' know | 18:57 |
| andre__ | well. provide context. | 18:57 |
| wall[e] | homorabbit | 18:57 |
| wall[e] | like homosapien but looks like rabbit | 18:57 |
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| wall[e] | andre__, HR will make N900 run faster | 18:57 |
| andre__ | shrug | 18:58 |
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| E0x | Home Rest ? | 18:58 |
| wall[e] | when you get the device, it wasn't HR out of the box | 18:58 |
| wall[e] | but after HR it is much smoother | 18:58 |
| wall[e] | wow this is really cool... | 18:58 |
| andre__ | so wtf do you talk about? | 18:58 |
| wall[e] | shrug too | 18:58 |
| wall[e] | no, someone asked that question. | 18:59 |
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| wall[e] | and i was wtf | 18:59 |
| andre__ | then provide URLs for "someone" and your "quotes". | 18:59 |
| andre__ | as written before: context. | 18:59 |
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| wall[e] | andre__, I translated that right from thai language. | 18:59 |
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| wall[e] | Hohoho Reflash | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | anyway usability wise the GUI is suboptimal in various aspects | 19:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | (confirmation dialog and accidental switchoff the is) | 19:01 |
| b0unc3 | hello | 19:01 |
| Macer | yawn | 19:01 |
| b0unc3 | I've some problems using upstart and dbus ( with DBUS_BUS_SESSION ) any hint ? | 19:01 |
| Disconnect | DocScrutinizer: every ui is suboptimal in various aspects. this one is actively hostile in many aspects :) | 19:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ack | 19:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | inbound call dialog same | 19:04 |
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| Disconnect | yah. inbound calls, ability for background apps to appear over the in-call dialog without user interaction (compounded by the lag issue) etc | 19:14 |
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| Disconnect | then again, android ui (esp in 2.1) is beginning to get a lot of acclaim. and it was - if anything - worse in 1.0. at least I can almost always answer a call on the n900, although it usually doesn't tell me its answered until a 15-20 secs later. | 19:14 |
| SmokeyD | Hey everyone, is it possible on my N900 to see the call log including the length of calls? i can find the communication history but that only states who I called/called me at what times, but not how long the call lasted. | 19:15 |
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| Disconnect | SmokeyD: istr thats what extended call log does | 19:15 |
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| ruskie | Disconnect, odd I never have any problems with the phone functionality | 19:16 |
| frals | i wonder wtf you lot are doing to your phones as ive never had any problems with callui | 19:17 |
| Disconnect | ruskie: when i get a call, it takes a few secs to show feedback from the 'answer' button. but it does connect quickly | 19:17 |
| ruskie | Disconnect, hmm don't get that as well | 19:17 |
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| ruskie | it just works | 19:17 |
| Disconnect | rahter, it sometimes takes a few secs. | 19:17 |
| ruskie | infact it's better than it was on the n95 | 19:17 |
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| Disconnect | when i was on a call the other day (in 3g but maybe it was spotty?) I finished leaving a vm and went to hang up. except i had been pushed into a difft app so that the app (either facebrick or witter, don't recall) could tell me it had no connection. and with the lag, it was a real pita (30-45 seconds) to get abck to the phone so I could end the call. | 19:18 |
| ruskie | vm? | 19:18 |
| Disconnect | apps shouldn't be allowed to force themselves to the front, thats what notifications are for. they -especially- shouldn't be allowed to do so when the proximity sensor says the phone is covered.. | 19:19 |
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| frals | never had witter force itself to active and id yell at w00t_ if facebrick did it | 19:21 |
| Disconnect | ruskie: I suspect thats what the issue is, but at the time all I had open was 1 browser window (fairly light static page) and then facebrick, witter and the phone app. | 19:21 |
| E0x | i can't connect to the n900 using a XDMCP connection ? | 19:22 |
| w00t_ | sure you didn't turn your touchscreen into an earscreen? I've done that a few times | 19:22 |
| frals | ^^ | 19:22 |
| w00t_ | I once managed to send myself an email, no idea how I did that but hey | 19:22 |
| E0x | ? | 19:23 |
| Disconnect | w00t_: not positive of course, i wasn't looking at it :) and it was bright out (so I wouldn't have noticed the screen lighting up) but it hasn't happened to me before. not that that means anything .. | 19:23 |
| w00t_ | facebrick at least won't do anything focuswise, witter I've not had that happen, but I don't know its code | 19:24 |
| Disconnect | fair enough. love it btw, except for covering more media types (eg view pics and such in the app) | 19:24 |
| Disconnect | and it seems to click-instead-of-scroll with some frequency. but thats a platform problem - mentioning it now because it looks like tweego managed to solve it | 19:25 |
| t-tan | does anybody know whether there is a a DBUS signal when a phone call is hung up | 19:25 |
| slaxium | Hello, maybe some coder have free time and could look for Palringo, some work is done: http://github.com/EspadaV8/QPalringo | 19:26 |
| frals | t-tan: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#End_current_phone_call | 19:26 |
| wall[e] | anyone know for sure the flash block size thing for repartitioning ? | 19:26 |
| wall[e] | 32 64 or 128k? | 19:26 |
| t-tan | frals: I mean receiving a signal when the users hangs up | 19:26 |
| frals | oh, dunno that, sorry :) | 19:27 |
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| t-tan | frals: thanks, anyway | 19:27 |
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| E0x | hmm , cat /proc/cpuinfo don't show the CPU Mhz field | 19:29 |
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| Disconnect | E0x: welcome to arm ;) there is a diff't place ot get it (other than just running conky) lemme look | 19:30 |
| GAN900 | alterego, who's an ass? | 19:30 |
| GAN900 | Do I need popcorn? | 19:30 |
| crashanddie | alterego: you obviously | 19:30 |
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| GAN900 | crashanddie, tab complete fail. | 19:30 |
| crashanddie | brainfreeze too | 19:31 |
| Disconnect | /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq | 19:31 |
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| wall[e] | 56631296 / (32 * 1024 * 2) * (32 * 1024 * 2) | 19:34 |
| wall[e] | default size suggest it should be 32k | 19:34 |
| wall[e] | nokia shouldn't get it wrong | 19:34 |
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| ShadowJK | it's more like 128 or 256k | 19:38 |
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| t-tan | if you want to be safe use 128k | 19:38 |
| wall[e] | ShadowJK, then the default partition size isn't suitable ? | 19:38 |
| ShadowJK | the manufacturers don't always disclose it | 19:38 |
| ShadowJK | ? | 19:39 |
| wall[e] | ShadowJK, default size is 56631296 | 19:39 |
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| wall[e] | no, my bad | 19:39 |
| wall[e] | sorry | 19:39 |
| wall[e] | oh not | 19:40 |
| wall[e] | 56631296 / (128 * 1024 * 2) * (128 * 1024 * 2) = 56623104 | 19:40 |
| wall[e] | neither 64 it is aligned | 19:40 |
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| wall[e] | er n/m | 19:41 |
| wall[e] | suck at math! | 19:41 |
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| t-tan | it only fits with 8k, but if you align it with 128k, it also aligns with all <128k | 19:42 |
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| ShadowJK | well.. I think most important is that it's 4k aligned | 19:44 |
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| wall[e] | yeh, why | 19:44 |
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| wall[e] | is default bad? | 19:44 |
| ShadowJK | because even if you align the partitions at 256k, the os is still writing stuff in chunks of 4k randomly all over | 19:44 |
| wall[e] | ah i see | 19:44 |
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| t-tan | AFAIK it swaps in larger chunks | 19:45 |
| ShadowJK | t-tan: only initially.. | 19:46 |
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| wall[e] | but reading isn't random? | 19:46 |
| wall[e] | in cache layer? | 19:46 |
| ShadowJK | for reading you only need 4k alignment | 19:46 |
| wall[e] | like cache read 256k, you'll read from the cache not directly flash? | 19:46 |
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| yabba | There is no voddler client for maemo? | 19:47 |
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| pupnik | what's that for yabba | 19:49 |
| BCMM | yeah, never heard of it | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | t-tan: thanks for participating in hostmode enterprise | 19:50 |
| yabba | that I think too | 19:50 |
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| ShadowJK | flash erase block size might be 256k, but smallest adressable page is 4k | 19:50 |
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| ShadowJK | not that the manufacturers will confirm nor deny that | 19:50 |
| t-tan | DocScrutinizer51: you're welcome. I really hope we can get USB hostmode someday | 19:51 |
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| wall[e] | thanks. | 19:51 |
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| wall[e] | should I repartition to align with 256k ? | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | t-tan: you might ne able to look a little closer to the diffs between fremantle and e.g. diablo wrt that | 19:52 |
| wall[e] | I didn't put any data in it yet | 19:52 |
| ShadowJK | repartitioning sounds like a pain | 19:52 |
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| wall[e] | just did hehe | 19:52 |
| wall[e] | give more torrent space | 19:52 |
| t-tan | ShadowJK: no, it's not as painful as the default layout | 19:53 |
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| wall[e] | so i can download tutorials | 19:53 |
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| slaxium | http://github.com/EspadaV8/QPalringo | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | t-tan: the major question is "why doesn't a 'echo host >mode' show the expected effects?" | 19:54 |
| ShadowJK | I've got all of microsd in ext3.. | 19:54 |
| * tripzero doesn't believe in ext3 | 19:54 | |
| tripzero | btrfs ftw | 19:54 |
| ShadowJK | for performance, a more recent kernel that isn't too buggy to run ext4 or nilfs2 or LogFS would probably be better.. | 19:55 |
| tripzero | nilfs2 has promise | 19:56 |
| ShadowJK | ext4 was hugely faster than btrfs in my test on sd storage.. | 19:56 |
| tripzero | oh? | 19:56 |
| tripzero | most benchmarks have btrfs pwning ext4 | 19:56 |
| cehteh | nilfs is cool but doesnt work for flash storage well | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | t-tan: keep in mind all of egoshin's results on hostmode so far actually are strange OTG side effects, not really generic hostmode | 19:56 |
| tripzero | but i guess it depends on what kevnel version | 19:56 |
| tripzero | s/kevnel/kernel* | 19:56 |
| cehteh | ext4 is awesomely faster than fat and ext2/3 on the n900 in my tests | 19:57 |
| cehteh | and i dont dare to use btrfs yet for serious things | 19:57 |
| ShadowJK | cehteh, nilfs2 works quick on flash | 19:57 |
| ShadowJK | and will wear out your emmc in 20 years | 19:57 |
| cehteh | ShadowJK: it has excessive writes | 19:57 |
| l0g1tech | can someone help me uninstall the enhanced power-user kernal as i keep getting an error (error during deinstallation could not install nokia kernel) ? | 19:57 |
| SpeedEvil | t-tan: mmc built in would be good too - to allow a kernel to boot SD without touching / - using flasher -b | 19:57 |
| ShadowJK | instead of 2000 | 19:57 |
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| tripzero | nilfs2 is supposed to be really good for flash, but yeah, it does currently do excessive writing | 19:58 |
| cehteh | ShadowJK: only because the emmc is so slow :P | 19:58 |
| t-tan | l0g1tech: are you running LR1.2? | 19:58 |
| l0g1tech | yeah | 19:58 |
| cehteh | well nilfs is nice when you need ultra reliable storage with a lot of writes | 19:58 |
| tripzero | :P | 19:58 |
| tripzero | btrfs with compression is the awesome | 19:58 |
| wall[e] | if i update kernel will that void warranty ? | 19:59 |
| t-tan | l0g1tech: then you need to install it manually from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel/ | 19:59 |
| cehteh | i managed to crash btrfs so far with some efforts .. its not yet fully reliable | 19:59 |
| l0g1tech | thanks t-tan i'll give it a try ;) | 19:59 |
| wall[e] | er better wait | 19:59 |
| tripzero | cehteh, i haven't gotten it to crash yet. but my experience isn't very extensive | 19:59 |
| cehteh | i really looking forward for it .. but yet, shipping a device by default with it is close to suicide | 19:59 |
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| cehteh | the enospc problems are not completely fixed yet iirc | 20:00 |
| cehteh | there are *known* problems where it will go out for lunch | 20:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | t-tan: you have a diablo device? | 20:01 |
| t-tan | DocScrutinizer51: no, only N900. there are major HW differences, correct? | 20:01 |
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| t-tan | ext4 in kernel-power is patched and should be stable. (so far no negative feedback) | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | quite some, but nothing I couldn't help to adapt from N810 to N900 | 20:02 |
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| l0g1tech | t-tan: abit confused as to which one to download to fix my problem :/ | 20:03 |
| hawai`i | ext4 for internal or external? | 20:03 |
| t-tan | SpeedEvil: reg builtin mmc. need to check whether has any side effects. e.g. whether tries to insmod it | 20:03 |
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| t-tan | hawai`i: both | 20:03 |
| t-tan | l0g1tech: the latest one | 20:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | t-tan: on N810 diablo we got woring hostmode. And it's just a matter of adapting some register addresses (simply speaking) to adapt that to N900 | 20:04 |
| tripzero | woring hostmode? | 20:06 |
| ruskie | t-tan, hmm does the power kernel support ppp and fbcon? | 20:06 |
| hawai`i | ruskie: fbcon has stability issues with .28 | 20:06 |
| ruskie | I'm using jebbas kernel with fbcon with no issues | 20:06 |
| mikki-kun | hi uhm, how did you again set aliases on the N900 like "alias short='$fricking_long_command_with_special_chars'" so that those are read every time you start the xterm? | 20:06 |
| t-tan | ruskie: ppp yes, fbcon see hawai`i | 20:06 |
| ruskie | mikki-kun, put alias foo="bar --commmand" into .ashrc iirc | 20:07 |
| t-tan | ruskie: is his kernel up to date or uses any special patches? | 20:07 |
| hawai`i | ruskie: there is an fbcon enabled kernel in the Customization thread on TMO | 20:07 |
| ruskie | it's just a rebuilt of the default maemo kernel I guess | 20:07 |
| mikki-kun | ruskie: does it matter wheter i use '' or ""? | 20:07 |
| wall[e] | rootsh can't be uninstalled, error in uninstalling script | 20:08 |
| t-tan | I have posted a fbcon build of kernel-power there | 20:08 |
| ruskie | t-tan, what kind of stability issues are there? | 20:08 |
| wall[e] | nokia will know i jailbreak the device :( | 20:09 |
| ruskie | wall[e], lol you can't jailbreak it... you get root ;) | 20:09 |
| wall[e] | :) | 20:09 |
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| tripzero | lol @ "jailbreak" on an n900 | 20:09 |
| tripzero | you are root! | 20:09 |
| t-tan | kernel oops like the ones you can see in this video http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/12/nokia-n900-running-android-2-1-still-rough-around-the-edges/ | 20:10 |
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| tripzero | android on the n900 is an abomination | 20:11 |
| wall[e] | will future itune be able to detect if the hardware it's flashing has previously been jailbroken and phone home? | 20:11 |
| wall[e] | is that breaking law? | 20:11 |
| Disconnect | tripzero: its broken, but i don't know if i'd call it an abomination. beats the heck out of android on a g1 ;) | 20:11 |
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| mikki-kun | mehhh, i couldn't stand ash anymore... hopefully bash will be better | 20:12 |
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| t-tan | DocScrutinizer51: I wonder what would happen with a kernel that is build only with hostmode, and not OTG | 20:12 |
| tripzero | Disconnect, better than the g1, sure, but android itself is an abomination | 20:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | t-tan: very good idea | 20:13 |
| pupnik | "What brought you to libertarianism?" "It just made sense." | 20:13 |
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| tripzero | putting it on the n900 screams "why" | 20:13 |
| tripzero | pupnik, +1 | 20:13 |
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| hawai`i | tripzero: for the challenge. | 20:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | And more importantly - IMO - for running android as another app | 20:13 |
| SpeedEvil | in principle | 20:13 |
| Disconnect | tripzero: the aosp is a joke, but android beats the pants out of maemo for adoption, saner ui decisions, application support, etc. | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | t-tan: as OTG is the one thing we need the least | 20:14 |
| Disconnect | SpeedEvil: yah thats my goal, once the basic port works start hacking on a wine-style wrapper to allow android apps to run just like any other. | 20:14 |
| tripzero | Disconnect, maemo was never built for wide adoption | 20:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Disconnect: that would be great - I was assuming some sot of more vmware type thing. | 20:14 |
| tripzero | so comparing it to android in that respect is unwise | 20:14 |
| mikki-kun | is there somewhere a package of zsh floating around which is optified for maemo? | 20:14 |
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| ruskie | t-tan, you mean that oops on startup? hmm doesn't look like a serious issue to me | 20:15 |
| t-tan | ruskie: yep. it usually continues to boot, sometimes there are no oops. and most often it fails to shutdown. | 20:16 |
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| Disconnect | tripzero: sorry man, they've been saying off and on since the beginning that a goal is porting: http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Maemo_Base_Port | 20:16 |
| ruskie | are there actually any patches for fbcon? | 20:16 |
| ruskie | that it causes the oops? | 20:17 |
| mikki-kun | ruskie: just saw your post regarding zsh... did you find a way around that? | 20:17 |
| ruskie | mikki-kun, around what? | 20:17 |
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| mikki-kun | Changing users user shell to /bin/zsh makes it NOT boot. Yes even after installing. | 20:17 |
| tripzero | Disconnect, yes, but in reality, maemo was built for a single device vendor (nokia). | 20:17 |
| mikki-kun | that thing | 20:17 |
| ruskie | mikki-kun, I just have a shortcut to launch zsh instead of the normal terminal | 20:17 |
| tripzero | meego is probably the evolution of that idea to make it more portable | 20:17 |
| t-tan | ruskie: no idea. I'd need to extract the oops and google for it... | 20:17 |
| mikki-kun | ruskie: did you upload your zsh-package? | 20:18 |
| ruskie | mikki-kun, it's all in my repo | 20:18 |
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| Disconnect | tripzero: meego is an attempt to take two marginalized platforms and try to combine them into a slightly less marginalized platform. also, get buy-in outside nokia for said platform.. | 20:18 |
| ruskie | I don't bother with extras repos | 20:18 |
| tripzero | Disconnect, meego is meant to be much more portable | 20:19 |
| tripzero | and run on many more mobile devices than maemo ever considered | 20:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | mikki-kun: (user shell) wellknown effect | 20:20 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer51: changing my shell will screw up the device? | 20:20 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes | 20:20 |
| Disconnect | tripzero: -moblin- was meant to be more portable. meego is what happened when it was merged with maemo (thereby gaining nokia's always-halfhearted support and the maemo userbase) | 20:21 |
| mikki-kun | wth is just wrong there? | 20:21 |
| tripzero | Disconnect, but i agree as well with the purposes you suggested. | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | the idiotic initscripts rely on idiotic busybox | 20:21 |
| SpeedEvil | mikki-kun: the scripts use some busybox-sh'sms, | 20:21 |
| mikki-kun | how hard it would it be removing busybox? | 20:21 |
| tripzero | yes, meego inherited the portable-ness from it's moblin parent | 20:22 |
| tripzero | would moblin be the daddy or the mommy? | 20:22 |
| tripzero | :P | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you probably can fix the initscripts | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but happy upgrading then | 20:22 |
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| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer51: so every upgrade would just kill configured initscripts? | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | odds are it will | 20:23 |
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| Disconnect | tripzero: in any case, hopefully future software updates will solve the lag/ui issues and android (as a full bootable os) will go back to being a useless "gee wiz" project on n900, instead of "a working os with apps and stuff" :) | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so it's basically an annoying bug that Nokia ought fix | 20:24 |
| MiXu- | I'm unable to update scratchbox armel target to PR1.2 :( | 20:24 |
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| tripzero | Disconnect, yeah, i hope so too :). if meego is ever productized on the n900, i think it will pwn android in responsiveness | 20:25 |
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| hawai`i | Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. | 20:25 |
| hawai`i | 0x4441a13c in QMetaObject::indexOfSignal(char const*) const () from /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4 | 20:25 |
| hawai`i | 0x4441a13c <_ZNK11QMetaObject13indexOfSignalEPKc+32>:ldrr0, [r1, #16] | 20:25 |
| hawai`i | This makes me sad. | 20:25 |
| MiXu- | osso-mission-control won't upgrade. "subprocess new post-removal script returned error exit status 255" | 20:26 |
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| Disconnect | tripzero: depends. the new dalvik jit stuff is helping a lot as far as speed. fondle a droid or nexus some time, they finally have iphone beat as to perceived speed/response | 20:26 |
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| * Disconnect ponders throwing together a python app to back sms's up to imap. | 20:27 | |
| SpeedEvil | Are you installing dalvik - or is it an open source clone? | 20:27 |
| Disconnect | SpeedEvil: dalvik is it's own open source clone. | 20:27 |
| Disconnect | so um... i have no idea what your question means | 20:27 |
| SpeedEvil | oh. | 20:27 |
| * ShadowJK blames the emmc for all stutter :D | 20:28 | |
| SpeedEvil | I assumed for some reason that dalvik was a closed binary | 20:28 |
| MiXu- | Is there a way to reset my fremantle armel target in scratchbox? | 20:28 |
| Disconnect | (and right now, if you check nitdroid, its mostly dj_steve and he's working on things like "why does the touchscreen keep killing children" and "is that supposed to be on fire? I don't think it was on fire before..") | 20:28 |
| ShadowJK | N900 relies heavily on it for its multitasking capabilities, at the same time the emmc is uberslow for it :P | 20:28 |
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| Disconnect | SpeedEvil: in android - esp recent hw - very little core bits are closed. (i'd say less than on maemo, but i haven't looked at the "whats closed" list in a while.) things directly related to gmail syncing, marketplace, open gl drivers, etc are pretty much it. and on htc lots of hw drivers (camera, etc) use closed libraries | 20:30 |
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| Disconnect | for a port, you can now have a reasonable totally-open device if you start with the right hardware and don't want gmail etc. | 20:30 |
| microlith | N900's media player and phone stack are closed, IIRC | 20:30 |
| microlith | among other things | 20:30 |
| SpeedEvil | quite a lot | 20:31 |
| Disconnect | yah there's a decent list with some bizarre entries ('battery management') | 20:31 |
| ShadowJK | we actually have all the docs needed to reimplement open battery management | 20:31 |
| ShadowJK | from hardware point of view atleast | 20:32 |
| Disconnect | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture .. the list i was thinking of was from 4.1 (oops) but that has a more recent graphic at least | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Disconnect: muhaha see BME | 20:33 |
| Disconnect | DocScrutinizer: http://www.bmezine.com/? | 20:33 |
| SpeedEvil | ~BME | 20:33 |
| infobot | methinks bme is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME | 20:33 |
| Disconnect | looks like half of everything is closed source. | 20:34 |
| BCMM | anyone else use AGTL (the geocaching tool)? | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: that's exactly the crux - we lack a proper function spec of BME and its ABI | 20:34 |
| BCMM | a recent update seems to make it crash on startup | 20:34 |
| ShadowJK | atleast Nokia pays a guy to figure out how to work with letting other distros use binary bits instead of suing people :D | 20:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | they should pay me to reimplement jrbme | 20:38 |
| Disconnect | ShadowJK: google left me alone for a -long- time shipping binaries of theirs. (because the core android system depended on them.) and they never sued anyone - they sent a standard letter to the people distributing bins after it was possible to build a system without htem. and now they turn a blind eye to the various filesharing links for adding their proprietary apps to devices.. | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jrbme just replaces bme | 20:38 |
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| ShadowJK | yeah :P | 20:39 |
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| Shapeshifter | opera is totally awesome. too bad it runs the battery dry in no time | 20:39 |
| ruskie | how many times do you plan on repeating that it is awesome? | 20:40 |
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| Shapeshifter | until I'm tired of repeating it | 20:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: how awesome is it? | 20:40 |
| BCMM | could somebody help me understand the n900 partition scheme? | 20:40 |
| ShadowJK | anyone tried it on n8x0 yet? | 20:40 |
| Shapeshifter | because this really is the first app I really like. maybe besides maep. | 20:41 |
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| Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: totally | 20:41 |
| BCMM | specifically, is /opt/ separate from / | 20:41 |
| GAN900 | Disconnect, the split is 80/20 | 20:41 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: /etc/rc.d/rcS.late (IIRC) generates fstab | 20:41 |
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| GAN900 | Disconnect, mostly user-facing stuff. | 20:41 |
| Disconnect | GAN900: tab-complete fail :) | 20:41 |
| Disconnect | oh nm | 20:41 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: /opt is a directory in /home | 20:41 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: ah, ok | 20:41 |
| Disconnect | thought you were talking about the partitioning :) | 20:41 |
| ShadowJK | BCMM, /opt is symlinked to /home/opt, /home is on emmc, / is on onenand | 20:41 |
| GAN900 | Disconnect, open/closed. | 20:42 |
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| BCMM | ah, didn't think of doing stat /opt/ and was just being confused by it not being in mount output | 20:42 |
| ShadowJK | the attention to detail in Opera is amazing, and awesomely amazing considering it's some engineers' spare time project | 20:42 |
| Disconnect | GAN900: thats kinda nuts anyway for an "open" project. system ui. address book. backup. calendar-backend (wtf its just modified evolution!) etc.. | 20:42 |
| BCMM | so what uses space on / ? things that haven't really been set up for maemo? | 20:42 |
| GAN900 | Disconnect, well, governance is way more open. | 20:43 |
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| GAN900 | Disconnect, and Nokia actually works well with upstream | 20:43 |
| GAN900 | It's more than just code licenses. | 20:43 |
| BCMM | and when should i be worried about rootfs? there seems to be about 500k available... | 20:43 |
| GAN900 | It's been getting steadily better since 2005 | 20:43 |
| GAN900 | but big ships turn slow. | 20:43 |
| Disconnect | GAN900: android works well with upstream, they just treat downstream coders terribly ;) takes 6 months to get a patch accepted/reviewed, etc. | 20:43 |
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| BCMM | is it possible that that is why AGTL keeps crashing on startup with an error (to standard error) about not being able to open a database file? | 20:44 |
| GAN900 | Disconnect, er, yeah, except for not sending kernel patches | 20:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: yes | 20:44 |
| andres | Disconnect: depends on the upstream. You barely can call their linux upstream contacts "collaboration" | 20:44 |
| Disconnect | GAN900: except thats not what happened. | 20:44 |
| GAN900 | DiBona didn't even know there were other people in the industry kicking their asses | 20:44 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: sorry, to which bit? | 20:45 |
| GAN900 | Disconnect, show me their OMAP3 patches, then. | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: df -h / dhould show at least several MB free | 20:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I was surpised to find myself with 76.5M free earlier. | 20:45 |
| Disconnect | GAN900: you mean http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/omap.git? | 20:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Though I had just flashed. | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: du -xk /|sort -n | 20:46 |
| crashanddie | Disconnect: 404 - No such project | 20:46 |
| Disconnect | crashanddie: can't help that, it opened here | 20:47 |
| crashanddie | Disconnect: and finding the correct link, it shows the last commits were by Torvalds himself (so no mods from them), and dated Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:12:14 +0000 | 20:47 |
| crashanddie | http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/omap.git;a=summary | 20:47 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: so there is a UBIFS root, an ext3 /home/, and a vfat /home/user/MyDocs? | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes | 20:48 |
| Disconnect | crashanddie: i clicked my paste and got the same page btw. | 20:48 |
| Disconnect | crashanddie: also, thats the upstream head. so yeah, its no susprise that its got only upstream posts. try http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/omap.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/android-omap-2.6.32 | 20:48 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer51: du -xk /|sort -n should be done from /, right? | 20:48 |
| BCMM | oh | 20:48 |
| BCMM | i didn't see the / | 20:48 |
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| Disconnect | (got the working page i mean, so i dunno why you don't see it.) "http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/omap.git" | 20:50 |
| crashanddie | that one works | 20:50 |
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| crashanddie | the one with a ? at the end doesn't | 20:50 |
| Disconnect | that wasn't "the one with a ?" that was a question, traditionally ended with ? .. | 20:51 |
| GAN900 | Disconnect, dunno, just had this discussion at the LF Summit and DiBona admitted they were doing a bad job of it. | 20:51 |
| Disconnect | 2 ?s in a url is not a valid url | 20:51 |
| crashanddie | Disconnect: just learn to format your damn'd URLs | 20:51 |
| GAN900 | So I'm not sure what the value is in defending it. ;) | 20:51 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer51: what is /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive for? | 20:54 |
| BCMM | (28 megs) | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | internationalization I think | 20:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not sure though | 20:54 |
| ddos | heloo | 20:54 |
| ddos | thear gerl? | 20:55 |
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| BCMM | ah, installed themes go on / ... | 20:55 |
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| BCMM | i can't see anything obvious on / really | 20:57 |
| tripzero | Disconnect, i had a nexus for a while. it was okay. I still think the iphone has slightly better responsiveness. tearing is still a big issue on the droid/nexus/n900 IMHO | 20:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | Is anyone one the UK with t-mobile? | 20:58 |
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| * lcuk mutters stuff under his breath | 20:58 | |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm not getting the time automatically set | 20:58 |
| Disconnect | i think they still need to work on the process management (and accept that sometimes the user -knows- they won't be going back to an app and should bea llowed to non-destructively kill it) but its still way better responsiveness-wise than the n900 is. and arguably multitasks better since there is such a defined split between "app" and "service". | 20:59 |
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| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: didn't work for me either with Vodafone in the UK, SFR in France, and Vodafone in Australia | 20:59 |
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| hawai`i | somebody solve my QT linking problem for me. | 21:01 |
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| * BCMM stabs Qt | 21:02 | |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10163 - I think it's a bug it won't use GPS to not set the time. | 21:02 |
| povbot | Bug 10163: GPS does not automatically set time of device. | 21:02 |
| BCMM | there you go | 21:02 |
| hawai`i | My main man BCMM! | 21:03 |
| * hawai`i humps your leg | 21:03 | |
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| BCMM | it seems that texlive is mostly installed on root | 21:04 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: if i move texlive to opt and symlink it myself, will my n900 catch fire? | 21:05 |
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| BCMM | or break horribly next time a new texlive versions comes out (ha ha) or something? | 21:05 |
| hawai`i | No | 21:05 |
| hawai`i | A new one will simply blow the symlinks away | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | for sure nothing bad will happe | 21:06 |
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| BCMM | at 14 megs for /usr/share/texmf-texlive, that is pretty much what the problem was, right? | 21:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm | 21:07 |
| BCMM | anybody know how much space / has out of the box? | 21:08 |
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| Disconnect | SpeedEvil: for some reason, none of the devices i've had with gps ever use it to set the time. which is dumb, since its a ton more accurate (and faster) than ntp, and way more likely to not be insane like the cell towers.. | 21:09 |
| hawai`i | 46MB ish? | 21:09 |
| BCMM | that's weird; texlive is supposed to be optified | 21:10 |
| BCMM | can somebody more experience help me? | 21:10 |
| BCMM | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42087 - this seems to imply that texlive ought not to install 14mb of stuff to the root partition, right? | 21:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | BCMM: no, it absolutely should not. It doing so is a flat bug. | 21:11 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: ah, thanks | 21:12 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: did you read the forum post? | 21:12 |
| SpeedEvil | I skimmed the first couple of posts till I saw the line 'virtually nothing on root' | 21:12 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: "It's already optified" means "it installs virtually nothing on /," right? | 21:12 |
| BCMM | oh | 21:13 |
| SpeedEvil | 14M is not virtually nothing | 21:13 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 21:13 |
| BCMM | i didn't see that bit | 21:13 |
| BCMM | ah | 21:13 |
| SpeedEvil | It's possibly an oops in a later version | 21:13 |
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| BCMM | SpeedEvil: i'm pretty much a debian newbie; how can i see the release history of a package? | 21:13 |
| SpeedEvil | dunno | 21:14 |
| SpeedEvil | what's the package? | 21:14 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 21:14 |
| dima202 | Hey Doc, my video is a copyright, I am not sure if it would be legal to post in bugtraq | 21:14 |
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| BCMM | SpeedEvil: a number of packages pulling it deps; trying to work out which i installed | 21:14 |
| dima202 | I can host on my server but i think i might get in trouble because of copyright crap | 21:14 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/texlive-latex-recommended/ | 21:15 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: the app manager only shows a subset, right? the ones one might actually use without all the libs? | 21:15 |
| SpeedEvil | shows versions | 21:15 |
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| BCMM | i think i did more than that, cause i needed some scientific packages | 21:15 |
| BCMM | (it is very, very cool that the n900 has latex) | 21:15 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: is it possible to search packages i have installed | 21:16 |
| BCMM | (all packages, not just ones taht show in app manager) | 21:16 |
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| BCMM | i know how to search all packages period with apt-cache | 21:16 |
| SpeedEvil | don't know, soryr | 21:17 |
| Disconnect | BCMM: dpkg -l | 21:17 |
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| BCMM | Disconnect: does that search in descriptions too? | 21:18 |
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| pupnik_ | app mgr is beastly slow with -devel repo added | 21:19 |
| hawai`i | BCMM: That lists applications and descriptions. | 21:19 |
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| BCMM | ah, i can list all of them then grep | 21:19 |
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| BCMM | thx | 21:19 |
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| BCMM | is there a way to select which version of a package one gets when installing it? | 21:21 |
| dima202 | Can someone please verify that media player will output to tv using the cables video larger then 55minute or over 400mb | 21:22 |
| dima202 | It's blacking out my tv every video file i try | 21:22 |
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| lcuk | dima202, ? | 21:22 |
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| lcuk | blacking out after 55minutes? | 21:23 |
| tripzero | dima202, works for me | 21:23 |
| dima202 | no as soon as video starts | 21:23 |
| tripzero | playing LOTR | 21:23 |
| dima202 | i see it on n900 but not on tv | 21:23 |
| SpeedEvil | dima202: Do you have the n900 set to the right standard - NTSC/PAL | 21:23 |
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| dima202 | yeah, small videos work | 21:23 |
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| BCMM | gah, it also installs man pages, despite the absense of 'man' | 21:23 |
| dima202 | Canola does the same thing | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | BCMM: no absence of man anymore | 21:24 |
| BCMM | one can install man? | 21:24 |
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| dima202 | i got man with easy debian | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ask MohammadAG_ | 21:24 |
| dima202 | but back to my video problem .. ;( | 21:24 |
| hawai`i | man pages are a waste of space | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | aiuinman should be in devel since rh | 21:25 |
| etrunko | dima202: works for me | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | hawai`i: you too | 21:25 |
| etrunko | i have about 40 ripped dvds with more than 1h | 21:26 |
| hawai`i | I actually don't exist, so I'm not. | 21:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | man pages take ~0.1% of my precious 32G | 21:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | and I copied a darn butload of manpages to it | 21:28 |
| dima202 | 21:28 | |
| hawai`i | Do honestly need them? | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | some 12000 manpages to be specific about it | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | hawai`i: the 50MB? not at all | 21:29 |
| dima202 | I think nokia wrote a code specifically for my n900 to stop showing video on tv | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | ooh, i love http://talk.maemo.org/thankedposts.php | 21:29 |
| hawai`i | Do you need the darn manpages? | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | do I need the N900? | 21:29 |
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| hawai`i | Let's not get all philosophyical here. | 21:30 |
| pupnik_ | ty ty Stskeeps | 21:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | sorry yes I need them. don't know all 12k by heart | 21:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | and thanks to friggin messybox not even foo --help is of any help | 21:32 |
| dima202 | Guys give me a reason why my N900 cuts off video | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | no idea | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | dima202: it has a bad day | 21:32 |
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| lcuk | dima202, reboot? | 21:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | bad video format? | 21:33 |
| dima202 | I have rebooted | 21:33 |
| lcuk | ok | 21:33 |
| dima202 | I tried 45 different videos | 21:33 |
| dima202 | .mkv .avi .mp4 whatever | 21:33 |
| dima202 | anything over 400mb cuts out | 21:33 |
| lcuk | just to tvout? | 21:33 |
| lcuk | orto everything | 21:34 |
| dima202 | and reoobted a few times too | 21:34 |
| dima202 | just tv out | 21:34 |
| dima202 | n900 shows | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | never had a video gt 400MB on N900 | 21:34 |
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| dima202 | I have exercise videos, work videos, movies, educational videos. I'm a big video collector kinda guy | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | might be swapsize related? o.O | 21:35 |
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| valdyn | dima202: what exactly is "cuts off" ? | 21:35 |
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| dima202 | TV goes black until I show multiple apps | 21:36 |
| dima202 | or close media player or that particular video | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | dima202: pm me a linnk to download one of those, and I'll test | 21:36 |
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| valdyn | i cant believe this is at 400mb | 21:36 |
| dima202 | DocScrutinizer-8: thanks, I will in a min | 21:36 |
| N900evil | does it go back to showing when you go back to player? | 21:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | and does it turn black on start or some time later? | 21:38 |
| thresh | duh | 21:38 |
| thresh | googlelatitude: Depends: libqt4-core (>= 4.6.2~git20100224-0maemo1+0m5) but 4.5.3~git20090723-0maemo6+0m5 is to be installed | 21:38 |
| E0x | i will do the test with a big video | 21:38 |
| E0x | wait | 21:38 |
| MiXu- | thresh: Requires PR1.2 | 21:38 |
| thresh | is it that infamous "we're waiting for PR1.2 so our packages would be installable" stuff? | 21:38 |
| thresh | mmkay | 21:38 |
| thresh | :E | 21:38 |
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| E0x | dima202: i am coping a 700MB video to my n900 to test | 21:40 |
| dima202 | thanks E0x I am uploading a test video to my ftp | 21:40 |
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| Stskeeps | http://talk.maemo.org/thankedposts.php?since=999 | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | most thanked post on tmo, woo | 21:41 |
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| E0x | dima202: playing it fine | 21:42 |
| E0x | how long i need wait ? | 21:42 |
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| dima202 | Are you seeing the video on the tv at all? | 21:42 |
| E0x | oh | 21:43 |
| E0x | not | 21:43 |
| E0x | at the n900 | 21:43 |
| dima202 | For me it doesn't play a second I get that loading thing | 21:43 |
| E0x | was on the tv ? | 21:43 |
| dima202 | what? | 21:43 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, whore. | 21:43 |
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| Stskeeps | GAN900: biggest tmo whore | 21:43 |
| E0x | dima202: i mean you error is went you use the tv-out ? | 21:43 |
| MiXu- | I haven't even tried the tv-out on N900 :) | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | Stskeeps: you need a statistic site to know that? :-P | 21:44 |
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| * GAN900 wonders when bugzilla karma will be fixed so he can go back to being the super whore. | 21:44 | |
| MohammadAG_ | was I pinged? | 21:44 |
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| * MohammadAG_ scrolls up | 21:44 | |
| thresh | Stskeeps: nice post, thanks | 21:44 |
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| dima202 | E0x: yeah when I have tv out the and try to play video i get the loading screen then tv blacks out | 21:44 |
| * DocScrutinizer-8 wonders if tmo karma will eventually take into account past posts | 21:45 | |
| MohammadAG_ | <hawai`i> man pages are a waste of space <-- you suck m8 | 21:45 |
| MohammadAG_ | :P | 21:45 |
| E0x | ah sorry i can't do that test | 21:45 |
| MohammadAG_ | man-db and man-db-pages are in devel | 21:45 |
| MohammadAG_ | 14MBs from /opt | 21:45 |
| MohammadAG_ | back to cod | 21:45 |
| valdyn | i played 1.2G sized mkv movies on tv just fine | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | otoh I give a shit about karma=36 | 21:46 |
| MiXu- | Hmm? mkv support works now? | 21:46 |
| valdyn | err no, it was mp4 i think | 21:46 |
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| valdyn | sorry for that, but it defenitely was 1.2G sized and worked fine | 21:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | angrybirds is a waste of space | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | angrybirds was awesome | 21:47 |
| yuizy_ | the best game for n900 | 21:47 |
| yuizy_ | :P | 21:47 |
| dima202_ | how to kill ghost? | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | numptyphysics is awesome | 21:48 |
| dima202_ | DocScrutinizer-8: my upload is pretty bad 70kb/s it might take me a few hours ;( | 21:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | np | 21:49 |
| thresh | dima202_: /msg nickserv ghost dima202_ lovesexsecretgod | 21:49 |
| thresh | err ghost dima202 of course | 21:49 |
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| Dima202 | ty | 21:52 |
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| Dima202 | how did you know my password o.O? | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | was too easy | 21:52 |
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| MiXu- | Graaaah. Broke my scratchbox and can't reinstall. | 21:53 |
| MiXu- | can you do optifying with madde? | 21:53 |
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| BCMM | how does one report bugs in 3rd party apps? | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | what's so particularly hard in optifyingaü | 21:55 |
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| mikki-kun | hmpf... how does one properly alias something that it will be read? i can't seem to figure that out on my n900 :( it doesn't source the .ashrc ;/ | 22:01 |
| pupnik | .profile | 22:01 |
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| mikki-kun | pupnik: .profile in ~ ? | 22:02 |
| pupnik | ya | 22:03 |
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| mikki-kun | ahhh, that was the goddamn file, thanks :) | 22:03 |
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| BCMM | is there a coordinated system for reporting bugs in third-party apps, or does one just whine on the forums? | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | yes, there's usually a bug tracker link in the apps pages | 22:05 |
| BCMM | oh, there is a catagory on bugs.maemo.org | 22:05 |
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| arthur_sr | do anybody has gotten problems installing maemo 4 in scratchbox 5? | 22:10 |
| crashanddie | lolwut | 22:10 |
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| arthur_sr | i'm trying to install maemo 4 in scratchbox, but i'm getting the following error: | 22:13 |
| arthur_sr | Scratchbox CPU transparency method for ARMEL is present... no | 22:13 |
| arthur_sr | E: CPU transparency method 'qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb2' not found. | 22:13 |
| arthur_sr | E: Please complete scratchbox installation first. | 22:13 |
| arthur_sr | E: Specify an alternative CPU transparency method using '-q NAME' option. | 22:13 |
| arthur_sr | do anyone knows why? | 22:13 |
| lcuk | arthur_sr, i bet you are missing cpu transparency methods | 22:15 |
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| lcuk | what OS are you trying to install into and which method are you using to do it | 22:16 |
| MohammadAG_ | There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. <-- damn genius! | 22:16 |
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| arthur_sr | lcuk, kubuntu 9.04 and i'm trying to run the acript maemo-sdk-install_4.0.sh, i have the scratchbox 5.0 installed and maemo sdk 5.0 works fine, but now i'm trying to use the 4.0 too, but i'm getting these problems... | 22:18 |
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| lcuk | arthur_sr, 32b 64b? | 22:21 |
| arthur_sr | lcuk, 32b | 22:21 |
| lcuk | oh cripes arthur_sr | 22:21 |
| lcuk | i dunno how that would work then | 22:21 |
| arthur_sr | lcuk, 64b have a similar problem? | 22:22 |
| lcuk | 64b has more common gotchas than 32b thats why i asked | 22:23 |
| lcuk | but you are doing something different | 22:23 |
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| lcuk | the cputransp stuff was more of a problem afaik for diablo | 22:24 |
| lcuk | you will have to use google | 22:24 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 22:26 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, wish somebody would write up a plugin for IRC karma | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | lol | 22:27 |
| GAN900 | Hey, crashanddie, you have tons of free time, right? :P | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ~karma GAN900 | 22:28 |
| infobot | gan900 has neutral karma | 22:28 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~karma MohammadAG | 22:28 |
| infobot | mohammadag has neutral karma | 22:28 |
| MohammadAG_ | so.. how does it work? | 22:28 |
| GAN900 | IRC lines | 22:28 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~karma infobot | 22:28 |
| infobot | infobot has karma of 5 | 22:28 |
| MohammadAG_ | selfish bot | 22:28 |
| GAN900 | ~DocScrutinizer++ | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ~infobot-- | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~karma DocScrutinizer | 22:29 |
| infobot | docscrutinizer has karma of 2 | 22:29 |
| * DocScrutinizer-8 hates the braindamaged infobot karma concept | 22:30 | |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | ~docsrutinizer++ | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ~docsrutinizer++ | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ~docsrutinizer++ | 22:31 |
| arachnist | ~karma DocScrutinizer-8 | 22:31 |
| infobot | docscrutinizer-8 has neutral karma | 22:31 |
| arachnist | ~karma DocScrutinizer | 22:31 |
| infobot | docscrutinizer has karma of 2 | 22:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | ~gan900++ | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | :-P | 22:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | ~GeneralAntilles++ | 22:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | ...that's outright silly | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ~windows-- | 22:38 |
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| Proteous | heh | 22:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | ~karma bush | 22:43 |
| infobot | bush has neutral karma | 22:43 |
| trumee | how can i enable unzip support in thr filemanager? | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | I hunbly doubt | 22:43 |
| trumee | unzip in cli is tiring :) | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | FM is crap, use MC instead | 22:44 |
| luke-jr | who uses zip? | 22:44 |
| trumee | mc it is then | 22:44 |
| trumee | luke-jr: files downloaded from internet! | 22:45 |
| luke-jr | trumee: no, files on the internet are always .tbz2, .tar.lzma, or sometimes .tar.gz still | 22:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | lmao | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | "I zipped it as I dunno if you got untar" OWTTE in this chan | 22:48 |
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| hawai`i | if somebody sent me a tar.lzma, I would punch them in the throat | 22:48 |
| * ShadowJK sends a tar.xz to hawai`i | 22:49 | |
| hawai`i | omfg | 22:49 |
| hawai`i | You saw that eh? | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | HERE IN THIS CHANNEL muhahahahHAA*gasp* | 22:49 |
| hawai`i | I see that busybox has no `strings` | 22:49 |
| hawai`i | WEAKSAUCE | 22:50 |
| * MohammadAG_ sens hawai`i a tar.lzma and puts one sided chainsaw on his throat | 22:50 | |
| ShadowJK | I'll repent by creating a few .lha :( | 22:50 |
| hawai`i | MohammadAG_: A one sided chain saw eh? | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ~nuke busybox | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ~die | 22:50 |
| hawai`i | WTF is this? | 22:50 |
| * infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless. | 22:50 | |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ~useless | 22:50 |
| * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer-8 in the darkest corner of the room. :( | 22:50 | |
| hawai`i | `less` shows my printable characters | 22:50 |
| hawai`i | but cat doesn't show anything | 22:50 |
| hawai`i | What the fuck kind of magic is less doing from terminal input? | 22:51 |
| MohammadAG_ | hawai`i, yeah, punch me whenever you want | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | which less? | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | messybox less? | 22:51 |
| hawai`i | DocScrutinizer-8: not Maemo related. | 22:51 |
| hawai`i | full GNU less. | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | k | 22:52 |
| hawai`i | infact. | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | man less then | 22:52 |
| hawai`i | `more` doesn't show printable ASCII either | 22:52 |
| hawai`i | I know how to use less, lol | 22:52 |
| hawai`i | This is messed up. | 22:52 |
| hawai`i | I have a uuencoded file, that I decode and cat out the contents... | 22:52 |
| hawai`i | It is non-printable ascii, magic boxes and the like | 22:52 |
| hawai`i | I `less` it out, and I get the interactive console, with my desired printable strings. | 22:53 |
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| hawai`i | hm | 22:54 |
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| hawai`i | if I set a less logfile, I can cat out the contents properly. | 22:54 |
| hawai`i | This is blowing mymind | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | check -r | 22:54 |
| ruskie | -R iirc | 22:54 |
| ruskie | less -R tends to work for man pages usually | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | or that | 22:54 |
| ruskie | mostly | 22:55 |
| ShadowJK | less is so configurable, ranging from. automagically parsing random stuff like manpages into something readable, to being nothing more than a 'more' you can scroll both ways in | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless it's messybox less which is a more you can't scroll backwards | 22:55 |
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| hawai`i | but I don't want to do it in less | 22:56 |
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| hawai`i | Unless I can disable the interactivity | 22:56 |
| ShadowJK | more isn't supposed to scroll backwards ;p | 22:56 |
| hawai`i | I assume there is a dumb mode | 22:56 |
| ruskie | shift+pgup works ;) | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that's why messybox less is actually linked to more ;-P | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | mad usefull | 22:56 |
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| hawai`i | haha god I hated that | 22:57 |
| hawai`i | busybox has it's place, though. | 22:57 |
| ruskie | I tend to use more for most things and less only for a few bits and pieces | 22:57 |
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| hawai`i | I actually symlink GNU less to more | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | hawai`i: yep, far away from user interactive it's for sure a nice little script interpreter | 22:57 |
| hawai`i | if I'm using a file pager, I want full power. | 22:58 |
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| hawai`i | No point in paging through it with more, when less functions the same on a dumb level, and has more functionality when I need it. | 22:58 |
| opdf2 | frals? | 22:58 |
| hawai`i | ~seen frals | 22:59 |
| hawai`i | WHAT?! | 22:59 |
| infobot | frals <~frals@Maemo/community/contributor/frals> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3h 32m 10s ago, saying: 'oh, dunno that, sorry :)'. | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | after all that's what it's designed for, not for driving users insane with "BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso26+0m5) built-in shell (ash) Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands" | 22:59 |
| ohwhyme | does anyone know why my call log keeps dissapearing? | 22:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | PAGER=less | 23:01 |
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| hawai`i | Reminds of that movie, Angels in the Outfield | 23:01 |
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| hawai`i | where he says "less is more" | 23:01 |
| hawai`i | I'm all, DAMN STRAIGHT IT IS. | 23:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | man less -> less - opposite of more | 23:02 |
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| hawai`i | wait | 23:03 |
| hawai`i | How do you disable the interactive console with `less`? | 23:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wut | 23:04 |
| Disconnect | lol | 23:04 |
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| hawai`i | Well, obviously `less` is doing something that `cat` isn't | 23:04 |
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| hawai`i | as cat is not showing my printable ASCII | 23:04 |
| hawai`i | yet less is. | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, it opens a screen | 23:04 |
| b-man | damn, i just missed Addison :( | 23:04 |
| hawai`i | no, it's doing some other voodoo. | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | and doesn't do line editing discipline | 23:05 |
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| hawai`i | IT'S DOING MOAR | 23:05 |
| hawai`i | AND I MUST KNOW WHY | 23:05 |
| hawai`i | wtf | 23:05 |
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| hawai`i | Why are both my cores locked at 2GHz? | 23:05 |
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| hawai`i | No wonder this Thinkpad is getting so hot. | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | OC kernel ? ;-P | 23:05 |
| hawai`i | dude | 23:06 |
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| hawai`i | My balls are sweating | 23:06 |
| tripzero | ew | 23:06 |
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| hawai`i | Haha | 23:06 |
| hawai`i | Both were running at 2.10GHz | 23:06 |
| ShadowJK | you accidentally enabled adobe flash? | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | awesome, now titan has doubled the number of cores | 23:07 |
| tripzero | lol | 23:07 |
| hawai`i | My battery would be dead, if that happned. | 23:07 |
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| ShadowJK | ah just decompressing a tar.gz.bz2.lzma.xz then? | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 23:07 |
| hawai`i | :P | 23:08 |
| * DocScrutinizer cackles evilly | 23:08 | |
| ShadowJK | the cool kids know how to optimalize compression | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly just a .zip | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | but if you want to be really l33t, you split the tar.gz.bz2.lzma.xz into 50 .rar files | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeehaa! | 23:09 |
| hawai`i | hahaha | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | RAR how could I forget about that | 23:09 |
| hawai`i | You're too busy using CAB's | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeeeeew | 23:10 |
| * DocScrutinizer running for the bathroom | 23:10 | |
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| ShadowJK | cabs are cool | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | yellowcabs | 23:11 |
| ShadowJK | they're like the enterprise version of .deb | 23:11 |
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| * DocScrutinizer humms "Mr cab driver" | 23:11 | |
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| ptl | windows cabs? | 23:11 |
| ptl | enterprise? really? | 23:12 |
| ohwhyme | anyone know why my call log keeps getting deleted | 23:12 |
| FauxFaux | There's no such thing as a cab. | 23:12 |
| FauxFaux | ohwhyme: Your son keeps calling sex lines./ | 23:12 |
| ohwhyme | i sure hope i dont have kids :o | 23:12 |
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| ShadowJK | ptl: yeah. you take something useful and have a big corporation remove everything good and useful from it | 23:12 |
| FauxFaux | Okay, it's your mother, then. | 23:13 |
| hawai`i | I don't know if you're intentionally missing a comma there, ohwhyme | 23:13 |
| ptl | ShadowJK: lol | 23:13 |
| ptl | ShadowJK: good definition of enterprise! | 23:13 |
| ohwhyme | haha | 23:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol | 23:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | /etc/init.d/alsasound reload killed Kontact (plus another few) | 23:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it even killed Konsole | 23:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I swear if I ever get to meet the dude who pushed PA into all fscking distros | 23:16 |
| lcuk | lol | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | hope he'll be accompanied by the phonon guys | 23:17 |
| hawai`i | Ditch KDE fool | 23:18 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, it really grinds on the #qt bunch if you call it phenom | 23:18 |
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| * lcuk found out the hard way | 23:19 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | hawai`i: for using what then? g* crap?? | 23:19 |
| * DocScrutinizer beats novel with KDE4 until they beg for going back to KDE3 forever | 23:21 | |
| tybollt | I'm still using KDE3 | 23:22 |
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| ptl | pulseaudio is nice and it is present in N900 too :) | 23:24 |
| hawai`i | PA is easier to hack on than ALSA is. | 23:25 |
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| hawai`i | but OSS is arguably better. | 23:25 |
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| wazd | oh dear, my sister didn't get UK visa | 23:26 |
| ptl | I always thought it was obsolete (because it's old). Feature-wise, it rivals pulseaudio? | 23:26 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer-8, don't give karma to trolls. :P | 23:26 |
| wazd | screw you, brits :D | 23:26 |
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| hawai`i | ptl: It is obselete, but I preferred the uh...simplicity of it, I guess. | 23:27 |
| ptl | hawai`i: it might be simpler but I think pulseaudio is *needed* in order to ingrate the craziness of different linux sound subsystems. | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | FSCKDAMNBSFFS! flash plugin update came with borked audio | 23:28 |
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| ptl | s/ingrate/integrate/ | 23:28 |
| infobot | ptl meant: hawai`i: it might be simpler but I think pulseaudio is *needed* in order to integrate the craziness of different linux sound subsystems. | 23:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no more youtube - isn't that a great step ahead?? >:-( | 23:28 |
| hawai`i | ptl: I'll completely agree with that. | 23:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~lart Adobe | 23:29 |
| * infobot cuts off Adobe's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper | 23:29 | |
| b-man | lol | 23:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anybody nay idea how to tweak flash plugin's audio setup? | 23:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | hexedit | 23:31 |
| tybollt | doc: What they done now? | 23:31 |
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| tybollt | DocScrutinizer: flash 's it? | 23:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or even what the default audio system and setup is, that flash plugin comes with? | 23:32 |
| * DocScrutinizer gets upset | 23:33 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | I *BET* this BS uses PA :-((( | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | hardcoded | 23:39 |
| BCMM | you *only just* got upset about flash? | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly they learnt to do so from skype | 23:39 |
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| BCMM | i have been continually upset about flash since the late 90s | 23:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure, but desapite PA which came with recent system update mostly broke audio for my laptop, at least Konqueror with flash was able to playback youtube video *with sound*. Now some friggin site urged me to update flash plugin, and now sound is *completely* broken | 23:41 |
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| hawai`i | Anybody know if sharutils has been cross compiled? | 23:43 |
| hawai`i | Never mind, it's not in the repos. Guess I'll do that now. | 23:45 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, you don't want to waste time on YouTube anyway. :P | 23:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sam Lowry says "fixed itself" | 23:47 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; Noticed a new update on the translations, it seemed to correct my issues. Sorry not getting back on checking the translations files, just been quite busy at work lately | 23:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Mr Tuttle grins | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsck Central Services err... Adobe | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | "where's your 27B/6?" | 23:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq6rEPBN7aA | 23:50 |
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| MohammadAG | 23:51:50 up 3 min, load average: 4.32, 3.01, 1.26 | 23:51 |
| MohammadAG | I hate tracker | 23:51 |
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| hawai`i | wtf | 23:52 |
| hawai`i | sharutils doesn't actually provide `strings` | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: hrm, good to hear | 23:53 |
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| Stskeeps | hawai`i: strings ds | 23:53 |
| Stskeeps | does | 23:53 |
| hawai`i | I can't find the damn source for the `strings` package. | 23:54 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; it may be some extra package I have installed that is the root of the problem, but at the moment I'm a bit too lazy to investigate | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: new update on translations? maybe for diablo?? | 23:54 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: i haven't tried doing anything for diablo for a while | 23:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: (icon_home_thumbnail_tanna-fi) | 23:55 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh, interesting | 23:55 |
| * timeless_mbp goes fishing | 23:55 | |
| hawai`i | Stskeeps, any leads? | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | still unchanged since last year | 23:55 |
| hawai`i | Oops, sharutils is for uuen/decode, which I did want, anyways. | 23:55 |
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| MohammadAG | hawai`i, watcha packaging? | 23:56 |
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| tripzero | that's what she asked | 23:56 |
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| hawai`i | MohammadAG: uudecode, uuencode and strings. | 23:57 |
| MohammadAG | pfft | 23:57 |
| hawai`i | I have a shit ton of scripts I need to write for work. | 23:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | hrm, i see a copy of my strings | 23:58 |
| MohammadAG | oh, thought you were making HAM icons for a package | 23:58 |
| BCMM | i can't possibly think why right now, but i'm sure i'll need strings at some point | 23:58 |
| timeless_mbp | but it isn't a versioned copy | 23:58 |
| BCMM | hmm | 23:58 |
| timeless_mbp | and i know i have a versioned copy | 23:58 |
| BCMM | has anybody packaged 'file'? | 23:59 |
| MohammadAG | what's file | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | hawai`i: binutils /usr/bin/strings ? | 23:59 |
| MohammadAG | nvm, I have man-db now :D | 23:59 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: /usr/bin/file | 23:59 |
| hawai`i | BCMM: nope. | 23:59 |
| BCMM | awww | 23:59 |
| BCMM | i've wanted it a few times | 23:59 |
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