| timeless_mbp | mapping gtk onto qt is a waste | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: but - for example - I'm not holding my breath for a qt-gnuplot - say | 00:00 |
| luke-jr | Robot101: Maemo has always had parts of KDE! | 00:00 |
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| luke-jr | even Maemo 4 had Telepathy | 00:00 |
| Robot101 | nothing in KDE actually uses Telepathy yet - we're working on it... | 00:01 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 prays gconf will die on moving to qt | 00:01 | |
| luke-jr | Robot101: but Telepathy itself is a KDE project | 00:01 |
| Robot101 | luke-jr: heh | 00:01 |
| Robot101 | luke-jr: you do realise I started the Telepathy project, right? | 00:02 |
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| Shapeshifter | _o_ | 00:02 |
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| luke-jr | Robot101: nope :P | 00:02 |
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| Robot101 | luke-jr: yeah, so, er, it's not a KDE project. sorry about that. :) | 00:02 |
| luke-jr | ... | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | probably such a compatibility lib should have some nagging built in (or get a 30day quarantine penalty) so devels move to qt eventually | 00:03 |
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| luke-jr | was always hosted on KDE sites as far as I rememer | 00:03 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 prays gconf will die on moving to qt | 00:03 | |
| Robot101 | luke-jr: it's always been hosted on freedesktop.org as far as I remember | 00:03 |
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| luke-jr | hmm, maybe I'm thinking about something else :/ | 00:03 |
| Robot101 | Decibel? that was a KDE project based on Telepathy but it never got any apps in KDE to use it either, and its kinda dead now. | 00:05 |
| ManoftheSea | what's Telepathy? | 00:05 |
| Robot101 | ManoftheSea: real-time communication framework, it's what the N900 uses to make cellular calls, SMS, skype, google talk, etc | 00:05 |
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| ManoftheSea | RTCOMM? | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mindreading ;-P | 00:06 |
| ManoftheSea | thanks, doc | 00:06 |
| ManoftheSea | That's what makes it difficult to google | 00:06 |
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| Robot101 | hardly, it's the 2nd hit...! | 00:06 |
| * ManoftheSea fails, then. | 00:06 | |
| luke-jr | Robot101: yeah, that might be it | 00:07 |
| ManoftheSea | I admit, I asked before trying. | 00:07 |
| ManoftheSea | Sorry, sorry everyone. | 00:07 |
| Robot101 | luke-jr: yeah, maemo never used that | 00:07 |
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| luke-jr | Robot101: gotta admit I never saw *much* purpose to Decibal/Telepathy :) | 00:08 |
| Robot101 | ManoftheSea: but yeah, Maemo RTCOMM is based on Telepathy | 00:08 |
| genewitch1 | how do I add a feed to osso-rss-feed-reader that doesn't end in .rss? | 00:08 |
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| luke-jr | Robot101: I am of the XMPP-only-or-die mindset :) | 00:08 |
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| Robot101 | yeah, XMPP gateways being so helpful for placing cellular calls...? :P | 00:08 |
| Robot101 | we wrote an XMPP gateway that uses telepathy actually | 00:08 |
| Robot101 | but it's at a very early stage | 00:08 |
| luke-jr | Robot101: I would *never* use a cellular by itself | 00:08 |
| Robot101 | even with XMPP, it doesn't solve the problem of sharing a connection between multiple programs | 00:09 |
| luke-jr | I would setup a call with my PBX directly (probably over SSH) and get my phone to understand what the call was | 00:09 |
| Robot101 | yeah you're not a normal user | 00:09 |
| luke-jr | :) | 00:09 |
| luke-jr | normal users just get WinMo | 00:09 |
| Robot101 | telepathy is for doing almost exactly what the N900 does, sharing your IM server connections between contacts, presence, call and conversation UIs | 00:09 |
| luke-jr | XMPP doesn't need that, since you can have unlimited connections | 00:10 |
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| Robot101 | yeah, on a mobile device, that's not actually a good idea | 00:11 |
| Robot101 | even with just XMPP then Telepathy acts as a local demuxer | 00:11 |
| Robot101 | and, I think XMPP priorities stink for choosing where your messages go, really | 00:11 |
| Robot101 | so connecting multiple times just makes life worse | 00:11 |
| Robot101 | and yeah, I do like XMPP a lot, it's the best supported protocol in Telepathy, and we've worked a lot on Jingle calling and added video support and all sorts | 00:12 |
| Robot101 | but it's not perfect, and it's not the solution to all problems | 00:12 |
| luke-jr | :) | 00:12 |
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| Robot101 | the xmpp roster is the most insane and broken part of the protocol, it's the most scary part of all telepathy code, just 100s of lines of insanity :( | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway telepathy dbus interface sucks like almost each and every dbus interface does | 00:13 |
| Robot101 | and then google came and broke it even more | 00:13 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: actually we're pretty good at writing dbus interfaces now, you can route an incoming call to the UI with two d-bus messages now | 00:13 |
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| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: we just need to delete the rest of the API which is inefficient... | 00:13 |
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| Shapeshifter | I wonder what was wrong with dcop | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | and write some decent manpage? :-P | 00:14 |
| Robot101 | yeah, that would help - the client libraries are getting more docs, and we have a telepathy book now | 00:14 |
| Robot101 | so we're working on it | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: aiui dcop and dbus are almost identical | 00:14 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: but dcop seemed so much easier to understand and work with | 00:14 |
| Robot101 | dcop was just not possible for GNOME because it relies on qt object serialisation | 00:14 |
| Shapeshifter | meh gnome | 00:15 |
| Shapeshifter | ditch that. | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsck g* | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~nuke gconf | 00:15 |
| Robot101 | the whole point of d-bus was to link gnome and kde shit together :P | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~die | 00:15 |
| * infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless. | 00:15 | |
| Robot101 | and gconf is bad, gnome know that - they just replaced it too | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~useless | 00:15 |
| * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :( | 00:15 | |
| Shapeshifter | but why does dbus-send have such a silly syntax where you repeat the same thing 3 times? | 00:16 |
| Robot101 | oh, that just sucks | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | and friggin skype used dbus-1 while nobody else had support for the obsolete crap | 00:16 |
| Shapeshifter | and where searching is a pita | 00:16 |
| Robot101 | the qdbus tool is much better | 00:16 |
| Shapeshifter | ah | 00:17 |
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| Robot101 | don't get me wrong, I don't love d-bus at all, but it did enable a lot of good stuff | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: mdbus2 -i ftw | 00:17 |
| Robot101 | it's just a shame that it got 90% written and then everyone just gave up on making it good | 00:17 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: thanks | 00:17 |
| MohammadAG_ | dbus ftl :P | 00:17 |
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| Robot101 | I might organise a d-bus hackfest this autumn | 00:17 |
| Robot101 | with the linux foundation stuff in boston | 00:18 |
| Robot101 | plumbers / linuxcon | 00:18 |
| ManoftheSea | hmm, I recognize that I don't have a clue... | 00:18 |
| lbt | Robot101: a dbus docfest would be a good start | 00:18 |
| * DocScrutinizer suggests burning d-bus in a fire 20m high there on that hackfest | 00:19 | |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: that'd be great, then we can go and rewrite all of the software that's been written using it! | 00:19 |
| lbt | making python dbus talk to C dbus talk to perl dbus talk to c++/libsigc dbus talk to Qt dbus... | 00:19 |
| MohammadAG_ | sigh http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52268 | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | fucking dbus still seems to have that annoying bug whith async or whatever, occasionally dropping msgs | 00:19 |
| Robot101 | the best way to achieve success is to keep rewriting everything from scratch - this open source lark has it all wrong. code re-use just means you use other people's less good code... | 00:19 |
| lbt | some 'best practice' docs | 00:19 |
| MohammadAG_ | Robot101, aww you'd do that? Thanks guys | 00:20 |
| * lbt likes dbus... | 00:20 | |
| Robot101 | I don't mind it, it could be faster, and libdbus is a bit of a shame | 00:20 |
| * MohammadAG_ hates it, deeply, about as much as the iPhone | 00:20 | |
| Robot101 | and qdbus is, er, kinda unmaintained which is awkward | 00:20 |
| lbt | Robot101: but that's just implementation :) | 00:20 |
| MohammadAG_ | (otoh if I could understand it, I might start to like it) | 00:20 |
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| Robot101 | lbt: yeah, conceptually it's a lot better than the practice | 00:21 |
| Robot101 | lbt: thankfully it's not too hard to implement - glib now has its own implementation... gvariant is the dbus data structures and gdbus marshals/unmarshals messages using it | 00:22 |
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| Robot101 | MohammadAG_: http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2010/05/07/eat-burgers-on-the-short-bus/ might help you understand it :) | 00:22 |
| lbt | *nod* | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | if dbus came with a policy that NO APPLICATION EVER gets away without introspection or without a decent manpage incl a dbus-send example of every method... | 00:22 |
| lbt | http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-python/doc/tutorial.html | 00:23 |
| lbt | hmm 2006... | 00:23 |
| * DocScrutinizer burrrps | 00:23 | |
| Robot101 | oh the introspection is upsetting | 00:23 |
| SpeedEvil | No. The lack of docs - which introspection is a shitty implementation of - is upsetting | 00:24 |
| * lbt wonders if Robot101 is talking about python or Robot101's life... | 00:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ACK!!! | 00:24 |
| Robot101 | lbt: haha, no the whole XML introspection thing in d-bus, is very upsetting | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | python?? | 00:25 |
| Robot101 | dbus-glib is upsetting too | 00:25 |
| Shapeshifter | so. everything about dbus is upsetting. | 00:25 |
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| Robot101 | the implementations... the wire protocol is tolerable, and the concept is excellent | 00:25 |
| lbt | Shapeshifter: apart from the basic design + principles | 00:25 |
| Robot101 | given it enables such wonderous things as telepathy | 00:25 |
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| * DocScrutinizer mumbles CORBA | 00:26 | |
| Shapeshifter | well. the gstreamer basic design and principles are also win. still, gstreamer is pure horror. | 00:26 |
| Robot101 | and hal^Wudev | 00:26 |
| ManoftheSea | source and sink? | 00:26 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer: nah, we should all switch to Qpid http://qpid.apache.org/ | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually gstreamer is something I could love eventually | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | even though it starts with a 'g' | 00:28 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: have you written something using it? | 00:28 |
| Shapeshifter | I nearly lost my mind. And #gstreamer is the most unfriendly and unhelpful place I've ever visited. | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | gstreamer for me looks like a cmdline toolset | 00:28 |
| luke-jr | lol | 00:28 |
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| Shapeshifter | stuff just doesn't work, the docs are horrible, and debugging is a pain. | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | if it's yet another alternative to PA, then nuke it together with the other useless crap pretending to enable audio/media processing | 00:29 |
| ManoftheSea | PA? | 00:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~pa | 00:30 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, pa is PAY ATTENTION!!!!! | 00:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~shutup | 00:30 |
| infobot | yes master, I'll STFU | 00:30 |
| Shapeshifter | pulseaudio | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pulse Audio | 00:30 |
| Shapeshifter | I admit I haven't tried libav as an alternative because I was already to deep into the project using gstreamer, but from the glimpse I got it seemed much nicer. | 00:30 |
| Robot101 | oh its one of those /pre-existing/ pieces of software? | 00:31 |
| Robot101 | it must suck then, best to start over | 00:31 |
| budfive | pulseaudio is great! | 00:31 |
| budfive | :) | 00:31 |
| Shapeshifter | pulseaudio is stupid | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | /kick budfive | 00:31 |
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| Robot101 | everyone who wrote all of the software in existence was an idiot, and did such a bad job of solving such simple problems | 00:31 |
| lbt | oss rulez | 00:31 |
| * Shapeshifter shouts "OSS forever" | 00:31 | |
| Robot101 | all the code out there is just cruft, we should start over | 00:32 |
| budfive | i have a server with the speakers connected to it, running pulse. various laptops redirect their output to the server | 00:32 |
| lbt | Shapeshifter: latency | 00:32 |
| * Robot101 joins DocScrutinizer's new replacement for everything project | 00:32 | |
| budfive | to the laptop the pulse server looks like any alsa device | 00:32 |
| lbt | Robot101: MeeGo then? | 00:32 |
| budfive | works great | 00:32 |
| Robot101 | lbt: zing! | 00:32 |
| ManoftheSea | um... this looks like a religious argument | 00:32 |
| lbt | nah, ManoftheSea, we just don't have whisky | 00:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | frals: hey, can you change fMMS's Configuration dialog to use Maemo5 instead of Maemo4 input fields? | 00:33 |
| timeless_mbp | and move the 'Advanced' button to above 'Save' | 00:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: I DO NOT WANT REPLACEMENTS! take all your replacements and eat it! There's been decent IPC before dbus, and my desktop audio has lags of >60sec(!!!), guess since when... right, since last update introduced PA | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 00:34 |
| Robot101 | there is no precursor to pulseaudio that solves the same problem space | 00:35 |
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| budfive | DocScrutinizer: if you're not sending audio over the network you really shouldn't be using pulse. that's a heavy extra layer of crap for not much benefit then | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ohnoes. Yeah I can't live without err, what? Ahyes without audio-over-network and hotswitching audiocards | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | Did I miss any advantages of PA over ALSA? | 00:36 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: N900 hot switches between loudspeaker, earpiece, headset and bluetooth | 00:36 |
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| Robot101 | there's a reason both palm and nokia chose pulseaudio for their devices... | 00:36 |
| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: for N900 I not yet made up my mind | 00:36 |
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| ManoftheSea | and fm | 00:36 |
| Robot101 | even desktops hot-switch with bluetooth and USB devices too | 00:37 |
| Robot101 | anyway, 'night | 00:37 |
| * lbt would like pa for home AV systems | 00:37 | |
| lbt | night Robot101 :) | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I guess you don't need hotswitching. A splitting of the stream to 3 sinks, each with a softvol, that might do the trick as well | 00:37 |
| lbt | interesting stuff BTW ... | 00:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: (for the reason part) maybe the reason was: ALL distros got PA now, just because somebody was realy loud about it? | 00:38 |
| wall[e] | http://www.flickr.com/photos/30142075@N00/4591915763/ | 00:38 |
| wall[e] | done last night! | 00:39 |
| wall[e] | no clothes, just body | 00:39 |
| * DocScrutinizer gives a steaming shit on a desktop PC hotswitching to BT - with a 60sec lag | 00:40 | |
| MohammadAG_ | ImportError: No module named wnck <-- any ideas | 00:40 |
| ShadowJK | pa is crap, but the alternatives are worse | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | the alternatives have even steeper learning curve | 00:41 |
| ShadowJK | well that too | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | and are even worse documented | 00:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but there's abolutely nothing wrong with ALSA the software | 00:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it just works | 00:41 |
| wall[e] | any tool i can use to adjust hsv and level? | 00:41 |
| liori | DocScrutinizer: ALSA being linux-only? | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno, who cares? | 00:42 |
| ShadowJK | Well, dmix never ever worked as good as pulseaudio does for me | 00:42 |
| lbt | wall[e]: gimp? | 00:42 |
| ShadowJK | often every alsa-using app would just hang/halt due to dmix :) | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: then you had a crappy setup | 00:42 |
| wall[e] | lbt, anything on n900, sorry. | 00:42 |
| wall[e] | gimp is ported? | 00:43 |
| lbt | doubt it | 00:43 |
| wall[e] | ok | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | imagemagic? | 00:43 |
| Shapeshifter | what good would it be. you can run it in easy debian but of course it's slow and stuff | 00:43 |
| ShadowJK | mind, alsa's pulse plugin seems to have many of the bugs alsa's dmix plugin has.. enormous latency coupled with nonexistant/wrong/crap buffer fill and delay reporting.. | 00:43 |
| wall[e] | DocScrutinizer, I think they ported graphic magick | 00:43 |
| wall[e] | I can't find the deb | 00:43 |
| luke-jr | ImageMagick* | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that's not correct | 00:44 |
| Robot101 | alsa doesn't do the same as pulseaudio. what learning curve does pulseaudio have when you have a UI like http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2o81e3u4ZFU/S5pho0-AH4I/AAAAAAAAAVY/jOQTw5yzIIc/s1600-h/Screenshot-2.png ? | 00:44 |
| wall[e] | it was for old system | 00:44 |
| wall[e] | those devices before n900 | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | to all my knowlede these are issues *introduced* by PA | 00:44 |
| wall[e] | graphicmagicks was a clone | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | not heratage of dmix | 00:44 |
| wall[e] | er fork | 00:44 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not saying it's a heritage | 00:44 |
| ShadowJK | but the same issues are there | 00:45 |
| wall[e] | i installed sdk just to port it to n900 before someone ruin my box | 00:45 |
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| wall[e] | anyone with good mood can port graphicmagick for me then it would be nice | 00:45 |
| Robot101 | ie pick a sound card, set the speakers, receive audio. | 00:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: I *hate* ALSA as it has NO docs that gained the name "doc" - but honestly it has all I ever needed, and it just works | 00:46 |
| wall[e] | it's very important for n900 artists, i think. | 00:46 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: so, you're not the target user either | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | PA otoh never(!) worked for me | 00:46 |
| BCMM | what is the connection between graphicmagick and imagemagick? | 00:46 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: as you a) know what alsa is, b) looked for docs | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: ack, granted | 00:47 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: there are literally millions of people who use ubuntu or fedora or RHEL or whatever, and pulseaudio works fine for them | 00:47 |
| ShadowJK | If you output direct to audio device with alsa, it works beautifully.. but that's a bit inadeuate on modern desktop :) | 00:47 |
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| Robot101 | remember to pick your rants well, or you might come across as uninformed. :P | 00:47 |
| * ShadowJK is still suffering from pulseaudio pausing bug despite using a version where it's supposedly fixed | 00:47 | |
| Robot101 | d-bus replacing corba, now that's something we could have a good discussion about | 00:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: you can create whatever audio plugin stack you need, while opening a ALSA device | 00:48 |
| Robot101 | like, was it just a political decision to keep kde folks happy... | 00:48 |
| Robot101 | but, another day | 00:48 |
| * Robot101 really sleeps now | 00:48 | |
| ShadowJK | and I get periodic buffer underrun in the form of crackling, no atter what priority I run pulseaudio | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | no need to output 'directlly' | 00:48 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, for me the only thing that actually works without issues is alsa direct, or pulseaudio -> alsa | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | alsa -> alsa plugins -> ??? -> audio device, too buggy to be usable | 00:49 |
| zash | Robot101: where is that surround ui hidden? | 00:50 |
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| wall[e] | ok, i guess i'll install sdk again on my home box | 00:50 |
| wall[e] | :S | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: never had any issues, except of understanding how to use it correctly | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | once set up correctly it worked like a charm every time | 00:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (well, since alsa0.98 maybe) | 00:51 |
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| ShadowJK | I want to know how to set it up so that it doesn't add 2 second granularity to delay measurements | 00:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err, if you need delay *measurements* then probably PA is the right thing for you. ALSA is just happy with delivering a guaranteed max delay you can config as you like within the limits of your hardware | 00:53 |
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| ShadowJK | like, when using alsa output plugin/device/whatever 'default', like repeatedly requesting amount of audio in output buffer says "2000ms" for about 3 seconds and then it says 0 and xrun | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | default is a very fuzzy thing in ALSA. Depends on your distro, your particular hardware, dunno what | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I admit most distros come with a ALSA config that's suboptimal at best | 00:55 |
| ShadowJK | but alsa direct to device gives the expected results, where if you request the delay every 10ms, you get answers that are smaller each and every time, and answers that decrement at almost 10ms per request | 00:55 |
| ShadowJK | (almost, because system and audio clocks aren't synchronized) | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | and how should they | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | if they were you'd not even need a ringbuffer | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | I did not say they should be. | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | not to mention interrupts and thresholds | 00:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: odds are alsa default is a PA plugin since years now | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | aplay -v /dev/urandom is your friend | 00:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as are aplay -l and aplay -L | 00:58 |
| ShadowJK | Atleast using pulseaudio directly doesn't kill audio delay granularity and usefulness :) | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | well I curse PA 50 times every day, as it killed my desktop audio, after 8 years of flawless operation under ALSA | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | each time I close a window, or hit left cursor in xterm once to often | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the audio for that comes 2 minutes later | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | or 5sec later | 01:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or 2 days later (no kidding) | 01:03 |
| ShadowJK | hah, sounds like alsa using apps on my desktop :P | 01:03 |
| ShadowJK | when dmix decided to hang everything and then later when I kill the right app, the others get unwedged :P | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | alsa default is guaranteed to be a plugin based on PA nowadays | 01:04 |
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| lcuk | does pyqt work on the 8x0? | 01:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: then you probably missed to config the device in a way to create unique dmix handles by adding the process number to the handle base integer | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | or you actually used PA and didn't recognize it | 01:06 |
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| ShadowJK | no this was before PA | 01:07 |
| wall[e] | is it bad to turn off touch screen vibration? | 01:07 |
| ShadowJK | why would it be bad.. | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | you are sure about the date PA crept in to your system? | 01:07 |
| wall[e] | will make the panel got scratch easier? | 01:07 |
| wall[e] | like you won't know if you press too hard | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | wall[e]: suuuure -nah why should it? | 01:08 |
| wall[e] | ok | 01:08 |
| wall[e] | can't paint properly with that turn on | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's what the switch is for ;-) | 01:08 |
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| wall[e] | :) | 01:08 |
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| ShadowJK | yes, I know when PA came, because all movie players stopped working, and music playing apps stopped hanging.. | 01:09 |
| wall[e] | i guess i need a widget | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | wall[e]: profiles are your friend | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | check tweakr | 01:10 |
| wall[e] | DocScrutinizer, ah, i installed tweakr but i didn't know it allow more profiles | 01:10 |
| wall[e] | thanks! | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | hooray, 10 minutes past 0:00 | 01:10 |
| wall[e] | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAUcrUO8rQQ | 01:10 |
| wall[e] | you guys probably have seen that | 01:10 |
| wall[e] | it's creativetone playing with mypaint on n900 i think it's very cool | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | war is over ;-P | 01:11 |
| wall[e] | :D | 01:12 |
| wall[e] | rtorrent rocks! | 01:12 |
| wall[e] | now i need a step by step partitioning guide. | 01:13 |
| * wall[e] feels silly | 01:14 | |
| wall[e] | just doesn't want to do something wrong :P | 01:14 |
| wall[e] | (for a person who occasionally fix linux kernel) | 01:15 |
| SpeedEvil | I 'simply' tarred up mydocs, and stuck the tgz on /home | 01:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Deleted and recreated the mydocs partition. | 01:16 |
| wall[e] | good idea! | 01:16 |
| SpeedEvil | as a 4G partition | 01:16 |
| SpeedEvil | mkdosfs'd it | 01:16 |
| SpeedEvil | then made a 28G remainder partition | 01:16 |
| SpeedEvil | and made that ext3 | 01:17 |
| wall[e] | must store it on a different machine though, now i used 20gb | 01:17 |
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| wall[e] | ok, thanks, let's do it | 01:18 |
| Arkenoi | i see usb hostmode enthusiasts are not going to give up. that's good, maybe someday they get it working | 01:18 |
| wall[e] | i guess i didn't need doc but inspiration :S | 01:19 |
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| lcuk | wall[e], very nice :) (mypaint vid) | 01:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: you're kidding?? | 01:21 |
| wall[e] | lcuk, yeh, did you check the mypaint thread? creative tone and possibly me have some arts there :) | 01:21 |
| wall[e] | and more others | 01:21 |
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| lcuk | not yet i havent | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: we're just days, maybe hours away from a fully working hostmode iimplementation | 01:21 |
| lcuk | it would be good if the forum could make a page showing all the art/photos in a thread | 01:21 |
| lcuk | ie minimal comment breaks and just gallery page | 01:22 |
| wall[e] | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41807 | 01:22 |
| Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer, i hope it is true | 01:22 |
| wall[e] | yes | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: basically hostmode IS THERE already | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | see today's post of egoshin | 01:22 |
| lcuk | i wonder if theres a plugin for hte forum software to do it | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | and my answer clearly stating that | 01:23 |
| lcuk | of how easy it would be to make | 01:23 |
| lcuk | or | 01:23 |
| wall[e] | i think so | 01:23 |
| wall[e] | already plugins | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650145#post650145 | 01:24 |
| lcuk | wall[e], if you could find one and post it on the forum as an idea? | 01:24 |
| lcuk | see if its feasible :) | 01:24 |
| wall[e] | http://www.photopost.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121701 | 01:24 |
| wall[e] | 60 usd? | 01:25 |
| wall[e] | bot wrote by the guy who made vb | 01:25 |
| wall[e] | er | 01:25 |
| wall[e] | ybullatin | 01:25 |
| wall[e] | n/m that link | 01:25 |
| wall[e] | i confuse vbulletin with ybulletin | 01:26 |
| wall[e] | ok, it's vbulletin | 01:26 |
| wall[e] | argh | 01:26 |
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| lcuk | wall[e], thats a bit more than i was thinking (not money, the features lol) i just thought show all photos ;) | 01:27 |
| lcuk | not making an entire subforum | 01:28 |
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| wall[e] | hehe | 01:28 |
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| Macer | ugh | 01:31 |
| Macer | i just went through a ton of crap just to get my zimbra stats working properly | 01:31 |
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| Macer | at least the battery life in kubuntu on this macbook is a lot better now that i realized i had it set to the wrong cpu settings | 01:32 |
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| wall[e] | what does pi/14 means for rotation? | 01:34 |
| wall[e] | why 14? | 01:34 |
| lcuk | wall[e], sometimes more context helps, its a fraction? | 01:35 |
| wall[e] | command == 'RotateRight': self.tdw.rotate(+2*math.pi/14) is the rotation code in MyPaint | 01:36 |
| lcuk | right, its just the stepsize they use? | 01:36 |
| wall[e] | i don't know, why they use 14 | 01:36 |
| wall[e] | like i should rotate 15 degree | 01:36 |
| lcuk | you are right, they should have used 13 | 01:37 |
| asjWrk | well is it degrees or radians? | 01:37 |
| lcuk | wall[e], what on earth does it matter? | 01:37 |
| lcuk | its an arbritary figure - change it if you dont like it, but expect users who use it to shout | 01:37 |
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| wall[e] | the rotation of canvas in mypaint | 01:37 |
| wall[e] | i wonder if there's some maths behind this or they just invent the number | 01:38 |
| lcuk | "i need to rotate it a bit" | 01:38 |
| wall[e] | 15 is also a bit, it isn't even configurable | 01:38 |
| lcuk | they are dividing by whole circle, it just rotates | 01:38 |
| asjWrk | 28 steps in a full rotation? or just under 2 rotations a second at 60fps? <shrug> | 01:38 |
| lcuk | its a nonesense | 01:39 |
| lcuk | a folly figure | 01:39 |
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| lcuk | disregard or your mind will explode | 01:39 |
| wall[e] | i guess | 01:39 |
| wall[e] | lolll | 01:39 |
| wall[e] | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650923#post650923 | 01:39 |
| wall[e] | i am not alone! | 01:39 |
| lcuk | i have such figures in the early liqbubbles thing im playing with | 01:39 |
| lcuk | on desktop it runs too fast | 01:39 |
| lcuk | on 900 its just about right | 01:40 |
| asjWrk | lcuk: where's the turbo button when you need it? | 01:41 |
| lcuk | asjWrk :) this test code is the first ive written in python | 01:41 |
| lcuk | it needs converting to c or c++ | 01:41 |
| asjWrk | lcuk: python, say no more ;) | 01:42 |
| lcuk | to be as fast as liqbase | 01:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | Argh. /me should sometimes listen to the voices. | 01:46 |
| Gh0sty | nice nice, autodisconnect application rulez :) | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I thought a while ago 'You should really investigate that 'boot other OSs stub' for putting a simple rescue script in it that let you ssh in. | 01:47 |
| Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: think it was you who mentioned there was somewhere a list of bluetooth earphones on the wiki ... just looked a bit around but can't find it :( | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | IOW - I bootlooped it. | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe I mentioned it, but I can't remember if I actually seen it or just heard somebody talk about it | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | ~flashing | 01:48 |
| infobot | from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: congrats | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-/ | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | how?= | 01:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: hope it was for a good reason | 01:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | I was editing rcS-late - or whatever it's called. | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeahyeah | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I was making my working hacks to the system to mount /home/user/data/ - 'pretty'. | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | A fatal mistake! | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, the missing rescue system is the fatal mistake -of Nokia though | 01:50 |
| * lcuk looks at SpeedEvil sideways | 01:50 | |
| * DocScrutinizer yawns | 01:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, aging a year a day makes you feel tired ;-P | 01:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | Combined is just rootfs + kernel? | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Not mmc too? | 01:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nope, no eMMC | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | also you can specify what to flash and what not to flash | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume there isn't a way to copy the / off the device? | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | with the flasher | 01:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nope :-( | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | not AFAIK | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | FAIL!!! nokia hear me? FAAAAAAIIIIIL | 01:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: try -U/-D for upload/download, like for OM-flasher ;-P | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | if only NOLO had a way to boot from uSD... :-/ | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | or to redirect rootfs to somewhere else | 01:59 |
| MohammadAG_ | can't you back up from Mer? | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Hmm | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly yes. but how to boot mer? | 01:59 |
| MohammadAG_ | install bootmenu to flash the initfs | 02:00 |
| b-man|laptop | if only NOLO was open source - then we could multiboot kernels :) | 02:00 |
| MohammadAG_ | (to show a bootloader at bootup) | 02:00 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG_, requires preplanning | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | needs botmenu -> edit /fs | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I suppose I could use the flasher to pass a commandline saying rootfs=/dev/mmcblk1 | 02:00 |
| MohammadAG_ | lcuk, oh, didn't notice he borked the device | 02:00 |
| lcuk | there is a window in the boot sequence which Stskeeps put in for pr1.1 | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: however - it requires a script already on the device | 02:00 |
| lcuk | but that even requires a file to be placed there prior to breakage | 02:00 |
| lcuk | yes | 02:00 |
| MohammadAG_ | (should've been @ me but wth, blame lcuk for everything) | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: that would be great | 02:01 |
| MohammadAG_ | :P | 02:01 |
| lcuk | consider what functionality would be required and the skills needed to implement a rescue core based on it? | 02:01 |
| lcuk | get it into extras? | 02:01 |
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| lcuk | thats a first viable step? | 02:01 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: well - not really | 02:02 |
| MohammadAG_ | or they could open up flasher | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: extras doesn't help at all | 02:02 |
| MohammadAG_ | (nvm, that won't happen in the near future) | 02:02 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, for a first step it does | 02:02 |
| lcuk | write it | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: go ahead! | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: the ideal would be a small rescue image that you can copy to a mmc | 02:02 |
| lcuk | well | 02:02 |
| lcuk | no DocScrutinizer i have other things to consider | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: and use flasher to boot a kernel that boots that | 02:02 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, difficult | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: why? | 02:02 |
| lcuk | not all users use command line flasher | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: meh | 02:03 |
| lcuk | im thinking an oh crap my machine is dead moment for a regular user | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't care about them! | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I care aobut me! | 02:03 |
| MohammadAG_ | not all users break their devices :) | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: think that's exactly what I said, no? | 02:03 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I stupidly encrypted my backup that I made before I reflashed...and now most of my applications didn't restore...is there any way that I can decrypt the backup file on my n900 to get the /Root/var/lib/hildon-application-manager/packages.backup file extracted so I can reinstall? | 02:03 |
| MohammadAG_ | it's a regular zip file | 02:03 |
| lcuk | absolutely MohammadAG_ | 02:03 |
| Gizmokid2005 | MohammadAG_: not when it's encrypted | 02:03 |
| MohammadAG_ | decrypt it | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Gizmokid2005: you know the password? | 02:04 |
| Gizmokid2005 | it extracts to an applications.zip.cpgz | 02:04 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I do SpeedEvil, I just can't seem to figure out how to decrypt it on my computer | 02:04 |
| Gizmokid2005 | to just view the file. | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG_ | how'd you encript it? | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG_ | encrypt* | 02:04 |
| b-man|laptop | MohammadAG_: http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/ - too bad it only works with the N770, N800, and N810 | 02:04 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I don't want my N900 to try to restore it, I just want to decrypt it so I can view the file | 02:04 |
| Gizmokid2005 | with the Backup utility | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG_ | oh | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG_ | b-man|laptop, omg? | 02:05 |
| b-man|laptop | hehe | 02:05 |
| Gizmokid2005 | and I know the password, and I know the file I want...but I can't get it to open once I get the file to my laptop (since it's pw protected)... | 02:05 |
| asjWrk | Gizmokid2005: run file <filename> perhaps it'll clue you in on the crypto tool | 02:05 |
| * Arkenoi wonders if there will ever be decent DtG release, the initial one just sucks | 02:06 | |
| b-man|laptop | MohammadAG_: it partially works with the N900 ;) | 02:06 |
| b-man|laptop | MohammadAG_: it can do fw dumps - but can't flash yet | 02:06 |
| MohammadAG_ | err | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | b-man|laptop: partially as in 'flashes half of the kernel and half of the rootfs"? | 02:07 |
| MohammadAG_ | fw dumps? | 02:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ^^^ dumps! | 02:07 |
| b-man|laptop | firmware dumps; ie extract the 1st and 2nd bootloaders | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | from WHERE? | 02:07 |
| b-man|laptop | or anything else | 02:07 |
| b-man|laptop | from the NAND xD | 02:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | from flike or from device? | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | file... | 02:08 |
| b-man|laptop | from the device xD | 02:08 |
| MohammadAG_ | device, if it's a dump | 02:08 |
| MohammadAG_ | ^ | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | from NAND!! SpeedEvil !!!!! | 02:08 |
| MohammadAG_ | lol that's why I was asking | 02:08 |
| b-man|laptop | rofl | 02:08 |
| MohammadAG_ | I wonder if SpeedEvil hit enter | 02:09 |
| Gizmokid2005 | asjWrk: on what? | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 02:09 |
| MohammadAG_ | hope he forgets the sudo | 02:09 |
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| asjWrk | Gizmokid2005: the crypted backup file | 02:09 |
| MohammadAG_ | <DocScrutinizer> from NAND!! SpeedEvil !!!!! | 02:09 |
| b-man|laptop | xDDD | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | oh. | 02:09 |
| Gizmokid2005 | asjWrk: I know, but on the N900? | 02:09 |
| asjWrk | Gizmokid2005: no on your desktop linux machine | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | But even if that works - how could I mount a ubifs image? | 02:10 |
| Gizmokid2005 | asjWrk: running it on OSX | 02:10 |
| MohammadAG_ | SpeedEvil, with a ubifs enabled kernel | 02:10 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I may try to pull it apart with 7-zip on my windows box though.. | 02:10 |
| b-man|laptop | or a ubifs kernel module | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG_: ubifs is not a block device fs | 02:10 |
| asjWrk | Gizmokid2005: oh well, your sol | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG_: it's a NAND fs. My laptop has no NAND | 02:10 |
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| MohammadAG_ | ~ubifs | 02:10 |
| MohammadAG_ | infobot, ubifs is http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=403015&postcount=3 | 02:11 |
| infobot | MohammadAG_: okay | 02:11 |
| MohammadAG_ | SpeedEvil, that ^ | 02:11 |
| Gizmokid2005 | so there's no way to just get the applications.zip out of the encrypted backup file? | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 02:11 |
| Gizmokid2005 | at /all/? | 02:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Gizmokid2005: try with a decent unzipper tol, whatever there might be available on macOS | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | tool even | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | or unzip on N900, with unzip | 02:12 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I've tried it with both the built-in utility and StuffIt Expander | 02:12 |
| Gizmokid2005 | will that actually work? | 02:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dunno | 02:12 |
| Jiri- | Hello | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | never tried | 02:12 |
| MohammadAG_ | Gizmokid2005, what do you want to do exactly? | 02:13 |
| Gizmokid2005 | worth a shot I suppose | 02:13 |
| Jiri- | Anyone can help me with Ovi map loader with n900? says all the time waiting for phone! | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG_ | the restored decrypted file should be in /var/lib/hildon-application-manager/packages.backup | 02:13 |
| Gizmokid2005 | MohammadAG_: I just want the packages.backup file out of my latest backup, since my N900 didn't seem to want to install nearly /any/ of my applications I had installed. | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG_: he created a backup with backup tool on N900 and gave it a password | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG_ | Gizmokid2005, restore backup and cat the file above | 02:13 |
| Gizmokid2005 | MohammadAG_: checking | 02:13 |
| asjWrk | MohammadAG_: the N900 backup utility can create an encrypted backup file, he wants to decrypt it himself | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, yeah I got that part ;) | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG_ | I got that part too | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG_ | (aren't they the same :P) | 02:14 |
| asjWrk | MohammadAG_: but he has useless operating systems and can't | 02:14 |
| MohammadAG_ | asjWrk, but his N900 should have it decrypted as /var/lib/hildon-application-manager/packages.backup | 02:14 |
| MohammadAG_ | I doubt HAM handles decryption | 02:14 |
| MohammadAG_ | (which would be stupid tbh) | 02:14 |
| asjWrk | MohammadAG_: yeah but <shrug> :) | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gizmokid2005: errr, do I get that right you're talking about apt's database file? | 02:15 |
| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, HAM file | 02:15 |
| Gizmokid2005 | MohammadAG_: it seems to be there...Hmm, my backup file doesn't really seem to have everything...IE - I KNOW I had witter installed, but it's not in the list... | 02:15 |
| Gizmokid2005 | DocScrutinizer: MohammadAG_'s idea seems to be what I want | 02:15 |
| MohammadAG_ | Gizmokid2005, are you sure you restored the right backup? | 02:15 |
| Gizmokid2005 | yep | 02:15 |
| asjWrk | witter is pretty bad, tyou don't really want it ;) | 02:15 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I only have 2... | 02:15 |
| MohammadAG_ | lol | 02:15 |
| Gizmokid2005 | asjWrk: :P I do though :D | 02:15 |
| Gizmokid2005 | an encrypted and an unencrypted backup | 02:15 |
| asjWrk | Gizmokid2005: your phone agrees with me | 02:15 |
| Gizmokid2005 | LOL asedeno_work | 02:15 |
| Gizmokid2005 | ** asjWrk | 02:16 |
| MohammadAG_ | no idea why it wasn't backed up, it should be in user/ | 02:16 |
| Gizmokid2005 | eh, oh well. | 02:16 |
| MohammadAG_ | user/* | 02:16 |
| asjWrk | just reinstall...it's not that hard | 02:16 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I haven't changed much since my last backup | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't get it now... Why don't you just restore the applications from backup tool?? | 02:16 |
| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, read my suggestion 10+ lines up :P | 02:16 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I know asjWrk, but that's not the only thing missing...but I can't place exactly what all wasn't reinstalled (besides the extra protocol plugins ( a few of them)), but like I'd get told, if I need it, and it's not there, it probably wasn't reinstalled... | 02:16 |
| Gizmokid2005 | DocScrutinizer: I tried...but it seems to have missed a lot | 02:17 |
| Gizmokid2005 | whether that actually be the fault of the backup or not...I"m not really sure. | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG_ | <MohammadAG_> asjWrk, but his N900 should have it decrypted (Edit: by the backup tool) as /var/lib/hildon-application-manager/packages.backup | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | then something is borked and extracting any file manually won't help out of that | 02:17 |
| Gizmokid2005 | MohammadAG_: is right, the timestamp is 1837 locally which is correct I do believe. | 02:17 |
| asjWrk | MohammadAG_: I'm wondering if he's restoring after having installed the fake PR1.2 and deps are screwed up | 02:17 |
| Gizmokid2005 | Nope. | 02:17 |
| Gizmokid2005 | never installed PR1.2 | 02:17 |
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| MohammadAG_ | asjWrk, it doesn't backup version apps | 02:18 |
| MohammadAG_ | the backup tool | 02:18 |
| MohammadAG_ | not sure about 1.2 though | 02:18 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I was reflashing 1.1.1 becuase I've had some weird issues with it (going slow, not taking calls, random reboots (twice) etc.) | 02:18 |
| ohwhyme | anyone get jagged alliance 2 to work? | 02:18 |
| asjWrk | MohammadAG_: I'm thinking couldn't satisfy qt deps | 02:18 |
| Gizmokid2005 | my phone was 1.1 then OTA updated to 1.1.1. | 02:18 |
| MohammadAG_ | asjWrk, well witter is pygtk afaik | 02:18 |
| asjWrk | MohammadAG_: yeah, sadly | 02:18 |
| Gizmokid2005 | the extra protocol plugins wouldn't reinstall due to some "upstart-job" but I found the answer to that. | 02:19 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I'll just pull the older unencrypted backup and check the apps from that | 02:19 |
| Gizmokid2005 | thanks for the help guys :) I can manually reinstall the apps, that doesn't bother me. I've been meaning to clean out the dead weight anyways... | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG_ | sample .backup file http://pastebin.com/nHhkkM9d | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG_ | yeah, my backups are epic | 02:20 |
| Jiri- | Please help me with ovi map loader.. n900, win7 saying all the time waiting for phones | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gizmokid2005: you considered taking a peep at HAM's installation log? | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG_ | 119 applications | 02:20 |
| Gizmokid2005 | MohammadAG_: I was close to that, 101 last I knew... | 02:20 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG_: You do know that they're not pokemon? | 02:20 |
| Gizmokid2005 | DocScrutinizer: never heard of it...so no? | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG_ | Gizmokid2005, that was after a cleanup | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG_ | SpeedEvil, I almost choked xD | 02:20 |
| Gizmokid2005 | haha MohammadAG_, so was mine :P | 02:21 |
| MohammadAG_ | they were 156 :) | 02:21 |
| MohammadAG_ | my bad, 116 | 02:22 |
| MohammadAG_ | I counted the xml crap | 02:22 |
| Gizmokid2005 | MohammadAG_: http://gizmokid2005.pastebin.com/QejivkgC | 02:22 |
| Gizmokid2005 | 137 in my late april backup | 02:22 |
| MohammadAG_ | bah | 02:23 |
| MohammadAG_ | :P | 02:23 |
| Gizmokid2005 | :P | 02:23 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I only paid for ONE app for my phone | 02:23 |
| MohammadAG_ | angrybirds? | 02:23 |
| Gizmokid2005 | Line 38 | 02:23 |
| MohammadAG_ | or joikuspot | 02:23 |
| * MohammadAG_ checks | 02:23 | |
| Gizmokid2005 | Nope, each time I went to buy the extra levels, they weren't in the Ovi store because of their issues. | 02:23 |
| MohammadAG_ | got them using apt-get | 02:23 |
| Gizmokid2005 | and I only bought that because I"m lazy, but I LOVE the app, can't go wrong for $3.75 | 02:23 |
| MohammadAG_ | then paid later on when they appeared | 02:24 |
| Gizmokid2005 | MohammadAG_: yeah, I didn't catch them either time...and last time I looked they STILL weren't there. | 02:24 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | hmmm... | 02:27 |
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| maddler | anyone ecperiencing SIM registration error in here? | 02:42 |
| maddler | s/ec/ex/ | 02:43 |
| Scifi_ | Hi, how long does it take to receive the invite to upload to extras-devel? | 02:44 |
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| MohammadAG_ | a day or two | 02:44 |
| MohammadAG_ | could be less on non-weekend days | 02:44 |
| Scifi_ | MohammadAG_: Oh ok, thanks. I requested yesterday | 02:44 |
| MohammadAG_ | sunday, most probably no one even checked them | 02:45 |
| Scifi_ | I thought so. But I am too eager with this being my first app and all :) | 02:46 |
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| zlimvos | i feel like a retard.. cant find the external card i just inserted on my n900... where is that folder? nothing under /mnt | 02:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | df | 02:50 |
| Scifi_ | zlimvos: tried /media ? | 02:50 |
| kynky | SpeedEvils way is best | 02:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | maddler: i've hit it once or twice | 02:51 |
| timeless_mbp | (out of perhaps a thousand boots) | 02:51 |
| zlimvos | thanx both i think its just too late and i cant think. the /media/mmc1 folder is empty. i guess ill have to manual mount it | 02:51 |
| zlimvos | ill look it up tomorrow, ty all and gnight for europeans | 02:52 |
| MohammadAG_ | zlimvos, | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG_ | did you close the battery cover? | 02:53 |
| zlimvos | ye | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG_ | is it vfat? | 02:53 |
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| zlimvos | hmmm it could be ntfs.. | 02:53 |
| kynky | there is ntfs3g | 02:53 |
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| zlimvos | i see kernel-module-ntfs in appman i guess i need that | 02:54 |
| timeless_mbp | zlimvos: dmesg | 02:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | it should at least give you a hint about why it didn't load | 02:55 |
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| zlimvos | nice timeless thanx for helping me remember my linux whereabouts | 02:57 |
| timeless_mbp | you can also install sysklogd if you're so inclined | 02:58 |
| zlimvos | bad thing dmesg is quite happy with my mmc and recognized it | 02:58 |
| * timeless_mbp would be inclined to just mount it w/ a normal computer | 02:58 | |
| timeless_mbp | zlimvos: what did it say about it? | 02:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | dmesg is your kernel's output about whatever | 02:58 |
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| zlimvos | at the end new high speed SDHC card at address d55 | 02:59 |
| zlimvos | mmcb1k1:mmc0:d555 SU08G 7.60GiB | 02:59 |
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| zlimvos | let me add the ntfs support from the reps | 03:00 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, i was hoping it'd be more talkative | 03:00 |
| timeless_mbp | oh well :) | 03:00 |
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| zlimvos | i hope its just the file system as suggested. but dmesg is fun! | 03:01 |
| zlimvos | :) | 03:01 |
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| zlimvos | ok maybe my last question, any idea how can i re-initiate the mmc recognition process without physically removing it and reinserting it? | 03:03 |
| SpeedEvil | remove and replace the back cover | 03:04 |
| zlimvos | ok ty again. mor tomorrow im off gnights | 03:08 |
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| Termana | good morning | 03:39 |
| timeless_mbp | not really | 03:41 |
| * timeless_mbp cancels travel plans | 03:41 | |
| asjWrk | timeless_mbp: ? | 03:41 |
| timeless_mbp | i counted an my chickens before an egg was laid | 03:41 |
| timeless_mbp | and it isn't going to be laid, so it won't hatch, and i won't be flying | 03:42 |
| * GeneralAntilles complains about application announcements that aren't quotable. | 03:42 | |
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| asjWrk | timeless_mbp: at least it won't be roten | 03:43 |
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| wall[e] | anyone has problem flickr setting crash all the time? | 03:46 |
| maddler | wall[e]: let me try | 03:47 |
| wall[e] | i remove my flickr acct and add it back | 03:48 |
| wall[e] | didn't help, removing the flickr and reinstall didn't help | 03:48 |
| wall[e] | wonder if there's a config file i can remove | 03:48 |
| maddler | working fine here | 03:49 |
| wall[e] | ugh | 03:49 |
| SpeedEvil | how does a setting crash? | 03:49 |
| wall[e] | internal error | 03:49 |
| wall[e] | i guess reflash | 03:50 |
| wall[e] | do you know if sharing use python services some how? | 03:51 |
| wall[e] | i wonder if installing of mypaint from testing cause that | 03:52 |
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| *** omar has joined #maemo | 03:55 | |
| wall[e] | er devl | 03:55 |
| wall[e] | devel | 03:55 |
| *** otubo is now known as otubo[AFK] | 03:59 | |
| wall[e] | hmm no it's something to do in dbus level | 04:00 |
| wall[e] | sharing-accountstore.c 516 sharing_account_store_add_account Last added id exists: 15 | 04:01 |
| wall[e] | process 2478: arguments to dbus_bus_request_name() were incorrect, assertion "_dbus_check_is_valid_bus_name (name)" failed in file dbus-bus.c line 1070. | 04:01 |
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| Pekuja_ | is there any info on when PR 1.2 will be out? | 04:02 |
| wall[e] | see topic | 04:02 |
| MohammadAG_ | read the topic | 04:02 |
| * wall[e] scores 1:0 | 04:02 | |
| MohammadAG_ | [04:02:21:02S] <MohammadAG_> read the topic | 04:02 |
| MohammadAG_ | [04:02:21:02S] <wall[e]> see topic | 04:02 |
| * MohammadAG_ scores 1:1 | 04:02 | |
| wall[e] | lol | 04:02 |
| asjWrk | wall[e]: you can't score till the /kick | 04:02 |
| MohammadAG_ | same MS | 04:02 |
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| wall[e] | lol | 04:03 |
| MohammadAG_ | /kick asjWrk *scores* | 04:03 |
| wall[e] | lmao | 04:03 |
| asjWrk | MohammadAG_: hehe, you love me to much ;) | 04:03 |
| MohammadAG_ | /kickban asjWrk no i don't :P | 04:03 |
| * asjWrk feels the love :) | 04:04 | |
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| * MohammadAG_ feels awkward... | 04:04 | |
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| wall[e] | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10089 | 04:05 |
| povbot | Bug 10089: Cannot create Flickr sharing account: "Internal error. Application 'Settings' closed." | 04:06 |
| wall[e] | no luck | 04:06 |
| Dassu | >:) | 04:06 |
| Pekuja_ | wall[e]: well the topic doesn't really tell, but I guess there's no info then | 04:06 |
| *** user__ is now known as caoticM | 04:07 | |
| wall[e] | i've heard they have bug to fix | 04:07 |
| wall[e] | so it must be late | 04:07 |
| *** Gizmokid2005 is now known as Gizmokid2005|AFK | 04:08 | |
| caoticM | is there any alternative application for the n900 to access installed applications ? | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pekuja_: which part of "NO PR1.2 YET, askers will get kicked http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=638289#post638289" was unclear? | 04:09 |
| wall[e] | i can backup-reflash and get everything back right? | 04:09 |
| Pekuja_ | DocScrutinizer: I did not ask *for* PR1.2. I asked *about* it. | 04:09 |
| wall[e] | yeh that was in a thin gray line | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, ok. But Nokia *never* announces any release dates | 04:10 |
| wall[e] | :) | 04:10 |
| MohammadAG_ | we did not specify what you could or could not ask | 04:10 |
| Pekuja_ | MohammadAG_: then perhaps everybody who asks any question should be kicked? | 04:10 |
| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, change topic to PR1.2* will get kicked? | 04:11 |
| MohammadAG_ | Pekuja_, we're not that strict... | 04:11 |
| MohammadAG_ | otherwise you'd be gone :P | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | ¿ rotated by 180° triggers auto-kickban ;-P | 04:11 |
| MohammadAG_ | ? | 04:11 |
| MohammadAG_ | :P | 04:11 |
| wall[e] | looks like espanol | 04:11 |
| * MohammadAG_ demands a kick | 04:11 | |
| MohammadAG_ | I'll sue if I don't get it | 04:12 |
| MohammadAG_ | it's a right! | 04:12 |
| Pekuja_ | I assumed the topic meant that you can't ask for the illegaly leaked files | 04:12 |
| wall[e] | sounds like foot fetishism | 04:12 |
| MohammadAG_ | LOL perv | 04:13 |
| * wall[e] hides. | 04:13 | |
| wall[e] | Pekuja_, oh, i think that assumption make a lot of sense to me | 04:14 |
| wall[e] | i'd assume like that too, thinking about it. | 04:14 |
| Pekuja_ | hehe | 04:14 |
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| Macer | it sucks having been in the USMC and watching the pacific because i already know john basilone dies | 04:14 |
| *** C-S-B-N900 has joined #maemo | 04:15 | |
| * MohammadAG_ kicks wall[e] | 04:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer | err aha | 04:15 |
| * wall[e] rolls away. | 04:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack | 04:15 |
| infobot | :), DocScrutinizer | 04:15 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~botsnack | 04:16 |
| infobot | thanks, MohammadAG_ | 04:16 |
| Macer | in the movie he dies wrong though. he was actually killed by shrapnel | 04:16 |
| MohammadAG_ | does it get overweight if we keep doing that? | 04:16 |
| Macer | er.. show | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems she's suffering from that already | 04:16 |
| MohammadAG_ | ooh, a she? | 04:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~attack MohammadAG_ | 04:17 |
| MohammadAG_ | never knew bots were she-s | 04:17 |
| * MohammadAG_ laughs as the command fails | 04:17 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ignore MohammadAG_ | 04:17 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~unignore MohammadAG_ | 04:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | blarg | 04:17 |
| MohammadAG_ | yep, she's overweight | 04:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/r/rr/ | 04:17 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: blarrg | 04:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | weird | 04:18 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~nuke DocScrutinizer | 04:18 |
| MohammadAG_ | that too | 04:18 |
| MohammadAG_ | think she's out of missiles | 04:18 |
| Dassu | eh... has the "save link as" feature been removed from microb? | 04:18 |
| MohammadAG_ | nope | 04:18 |
| Dassu | doesn't seem to be working for me | 04:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think she experienced a lobotomy | 04:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lobotomy | 04:19 |
| infobot | I feel different somehow. | 04:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~status | 04:19 |
| infobot | Since Fri Apr 30 19:47:02 2010, there have been 66 modifications, 458 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 280 commands. I have been awake for 9d 5h 32m 30s this session, and currently reference 0 factoids. I'm using about 41976 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 22972.96/633.33 child 0.17/0.09 | 04:19 |
| MohammadAG_ | 0? | 04:20 |
| * GeneralAntilles guesses konttori is not the person to talk to about pushing Fremantle issues anymore. | 04:20 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~factstats | 04:20 |
| * GeneralAntilles guesses Fremantle is more stillborn now that he suspected. | 04:20 | |
| Dassu | MohammadAG_: it appears that with mp3's the "save link as" is not present O_o | 04:20 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~help | 04:20 |
| Dassu | yep | 04:21 |
| MohammadAG_ | unlobotomy <--? | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~flashing | 04:21 |
| infobot | rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 04:21 |
| Dassu | wtf.... | 04:21 |
| Dassu | jesus, why would they do that | 04:21 |
| Dassu | guess I have to limit mp3's from mplayer plugin | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | downloading a podcast in the browser gave me the option to dave it or play it in media player. | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ping | 04:24 |
| jacekowski | hmm | 04:24 |
| infobot | ~pong | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | pfft | 04:24 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~lart DocScrutinizer | 04:24 |
| * infobot declares DocScrutinizer a moron | 04:24 | |
| SpeedEvil | But in media player, I can't tell it to get it all, as I'm going to be going out of coverage | 04:24 |
| SpeedEvil | which is annoying | 04:24 |
| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, maybe she went corrupt? | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems like, yes | 04:24 |
| jacekowski | have anybody tried to create iphone emulator for maemo? | 04:25 |
| MohammadAG_ | Caught signal 11 (Segmentation fault). Server aborting | 04:25 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: I tried. | 04:25 |
| jacekowski | and? | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | holiday on Maggie's Farm | 04:25 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: It turns out wishing really hard doesn't make it true. | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | she doesn't talk to me at all now, in private query :-S | 04:25 |
| jacekowski | maybe somebody else tried harder? | 04:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Perhaps. | 04:25 |
| jacekowski | i spent last couple hours coding | 04:26 |
| jacekowski | and i've got something that resembles linker | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Iphone or android would be interesting. | 04:26 |
| jacekowski | but then i saw iphone sdk | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Is palm emulator there? | 04:26 |
| jacekowski | and it's huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | old palm that is | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG_: | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-05-10 03:21:06] <DocScrutinizer> status | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-05-10 03:21:06] <infobot> Since Fri Apr 30 19:47:02 2010, there have been 66 modifications, 458 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 282 commands. I have been awake for 9d 5h 34m 4s this session, and currently reference 0 factoids. I'm using about 41976 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 22975.07/633.36 child 0.17/0.09 | 04:26 |
| Dassu | SpeedEvil: yes, that happens if you dont have a mplayer plugin but with mplayer plugin mp3's are oppened with mplayer-plugin. I guess telling it not to play mp3's is to best option | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-05-10 03:22:50] <DocScrutinizer> factstats total | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-05-10 03:23:37] <DocScrutinizer> total | 04:27 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: like wine - you only really need to do the common calls | 04:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Dassu: ah | 04:27 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: not really | 04:27 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: iphone definition of basic is different than mine | 04:27 |
| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, currently reference 0 factoids | 04:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Commonly used calls I mean. | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG_: yes :-0 | 04:27 |
| SpeedEvil | If no app uses them... | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | though: | 04:28 |
| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, no restore thing? | 04:28 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: the problem is that just hello world uses like 100 different calls | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~joerg | 04:28 |
| infobot | joerg is probably a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer | 04:28 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Impressive. | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo joerg | 04:28 |
| infobot | joerg -- created by jOERG <n=jr-N810@p5493F5D9.dip.t-dialin.net> at Thu Oct 23 12:00:02 2008 (563 days); it has been requested 23 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 14s ago; it has been locked by jOERG. | 04:28 |
| jacekowski | cocoa hello world i mean | 04:28 |
| jacekowski | console hello world would be simpler | 04:28 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders cocoa. | 04:28 | |
| * SpeedEvil gets up to get some. | 04:29 | |
| jacekowski | and i'm just wondering if somebody who has mac and is able to install iphone sdk to give me little bit of help | 04:29 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~Ubuntu MohammadAG_ | 04:29 |
| dotblank | ~factinfo dotblank | 04:29 |
| infobot | dotblank: there's no such factoid as dotblank | 04:29 |
| dotblank | :( | 04:29 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~Ubuntu MohammadAG_ | 04:29 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~factinfo Ubuntu | 04:29 |
| infobot | ubuntu -- last modified at Tue Oct 25 18:33:34 2005 by sinplomo; it has been requested 2 times, last by pcj at Fri Nov 21 10:46:58 2008. | 04:29 |
| MohammadAG_ | :/ | 04:30 |
| jacekowski | anyways | 04:30 |
| jacekowski | good night | 04:30 |
| jacekowski | time to sleep | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | she's sick | 04:30 |
| MohammadAG_ | poka | 04:30 |
| *** raster has quit IRC | 04:30 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~reboot | 04:30 |
| infobot | Not on your life cowboy :(, or are you using Window$? | 04:30 |
| MohammadAG_ | LOL | 04:30 |
| MohammadAG_ | err | 04:31 |
| *** adalal has quit IRC | 04:31 | |
| MohammadAG_ | ~wtf | 04:31 |
| MohammadAG_ | why is that a factoid... | 04:31 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~wtf MohammadAG_ | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | k, I know how to kill her | 04:31 |
| infobot | Gee... I don't know what MohammadAG_ means... | 04:31 |
| MohammadAG_ | ... | 04:31 |
| MohammadAG_ | oh | 04:31 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~wtf lol | 04:31 |
| infobot | LOL: laughing out loud | 04:31 |
| MohammadAG_ | that might come handy | 04:31 |
| omar | what's going on in here | 04:31 |
| omar | playing w/chat bots? | 04:32 |
| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, ctrl+c :P | 04:32 |
| *** raster has joined #maemo | 04:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~chaninfo | 04:35 |
| infobot | I'm on 17 channels: #debian/921, #openmoko-cdevel/95, ##guleague/13, ##ducleague/11, #webos-internals/4, ##bz-inc/4, ##icf/3, #asterisk/2, #oe/2, #maemo/1, #utah/1, #meego/1, #elinux/1, ##pxe/1, #tomcat/1, #bzflag/0 | 04:36 |
| infobot | i've cached 1061 users, 1035 unique users, distributed over 17 channels. | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | rebooting? | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | rebooting? | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~chaninfo | 04:36 |
| infobot | I'm on 19 channels: #debian/921, #openmoko-cdevel/95, ##kierra/20, ##guleague/13, #debian-bots/13, ##ducleague/11, #webos-internals/4, ##bz-inc/4, ##icf/3, #asterisk/2, #oe/2, #maemo/1, #utah/1, #meego/1, #elinux/1, ##pxe/1, #tomcat/1, #bzflag/0 | 04:36 |
| infobot | i've cached 1094 users, 1051 unique users, distributed over 19 channels. | 04:36 |
| Macer | hm | 04:36 |
| Macer | wonder if there are any zimbra apps for maemo | 04:36 |
| Macer | :) | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG_: confess!! YOU rebooted her | 04:37 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: docz! | 04:38 |
| MohammadAG_ | :O how'd you know?! | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | moin raster | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~attack MohammadAG_ | 04:38 |
| MohammadAG_ | Nooooooooooz | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hmmm | 04:39 |
| raster | how goes? | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | older | 04:39 |
| raster | hahahahah | 04:39 |
| MohammadAG_ | lol | 04:40 |
| * MohammadAG_ is off | 04:40 | |
| MohammadAG_ | Night all | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | since today I pay half price at the public pool | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | night MohammadAG_ | 04:40 |
| MohammadAG_ | oh the 16800 seconds passed? | 04:40 |
| MohammadAG_ | Happy bday DocScrutinizer :) | 04:40 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: that's proof. you ARE old now :) | 04:40 |
| *** Jiri- has quit IRC | 04:40 | |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, your birthday today? | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | managed to get past that annoyance | 04:41 |
| Termana | yesterday? | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | mm | 04:42 |
| MohammadAG_ | the day host mode was announced :P | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 04:42 |
| Termana | Well, happy birthday for yesterday :P Why do you think it was an annoyance? :P | 04:42 |
| MohammadAG_ | birthday are exciting, till you reach 17 | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | getting one year older in one day... that's clearly an annoyance | 04:43 |
| MohammadAG_ | hehehe | 04:43 |
| Termana | lol | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~chaninfo | 04:46 |
| infobot | I'm on 34 channels: #debian/921, #kde/364, #openmoko-cdevel/95, #htc-linux/83, #curseforge/53, ##kierra/20, #elive/19, #debianppc/13, ##guleague/13, #debian-bots/13, ##ducleague/11, #botpark/9, #arl/8, #linuxpakistan/8, #debian-france/6, #webos-internals/5, #dub/4, ##bz-inc/4, ##icf/3, #gsoc/2, #asterisk/2, #oe/2, #casualti/1, #maemo/1, #utah/1, #meego/1, #wowhead/1, #nslu2-linux/1, #uclibc/1, #elinux/1, ##pxe/1, #tomcat/1, #bzflag/0 | 04:46 |
| infobot | i've cached 1668 users, 1527 unique users, distributed over 34 channels. | 04:46 |
| *** benh has quit IRC | 04:46 | |
| DocScrutinizer | good, she's slow. Will reach the 240 chan in 3 hours or so | 04:46 |
| MohammadAG_ | oh, right, night :P | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~attack MohammadAG_ | 04:48 |
| * MohammadAG_ dies | 04:48 | |
| *** MohammadAG_ has quit IRC | 04:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: wondering if I should move to .au ;-) | 04:49 |
| wall[e] | nokia license term for flashing is very confusing | 04:50 |
| wall[e] | also including a ( without a ) | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 04:51 |
| wall[e] | and a page of string conflicting with previously declared gpl | 04:51 |
| * wall[e] click accept and move forward. | 04:51 | |
| wall[e] | nobody care reading this even themselves! | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | hack the site and replace it by "Nokia owes you 500$ if you click <accept>" :-P | 04:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | wall[e], how does it conflict with the GPL? | 04:53 |
| wall[e] | GeneralAntilles, no, actually they weren't affect | 04:54 |
| wall[e] | like All right reserved never effect gpl context | 04:54 |
| wall[e] | just confusing | 04:54 |
| wall[e] | for non legal | 04:54 |
| wall[e] | stuffs like, this is GPL, and then following by reverse engineering isn't allowed | 04:55 |
| *** Termana has quit IRC | 04:55 | |
| SpeedEvil | That does not make the license invalid on its face. | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | It means they are infringing teh copyright of the GPL by using it in an unauthorised manner | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | but having an invalid license doesn't automatically give you any form of license. | 04:56 |
| wall[e] | gpl invalidated the part | 04:56 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: you can have our great firewall to play with! | 04:56 |
| raster | :) | 04:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh nice | 04:56 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders how Australians keep calm on their Gvmt planning to implement little china | 04:59 | |
| raster | they don't | 04:59 |
| raster | but the govt doesnt give a crap | 04:59 |
| raster | neither doesw the opposition | 04:59 |
| *** Termana has joined #maemo | 04:59 | |
| raster | it puts more power in the hands of the govt | 04:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, so it's riot time | 05:00 |
| raster | and govt is all about accumulation of power - as that justifies them taking more money | 05:00 |
| raster | australians are not that type | 05:00 |
| raster | instead we just bitch | 05:00 |
| wall[e] | anything not effect blender dev would be nice | 05:00 |
| wall[e] | will they have chinese wall around that? | 05:00 |
| raster | blender dev? | 05:01 |
| wall[e] | a few au are deving blender | 05:01 |
| wall[e] | which is the app i used for living | 05:01 |
| wall[e] | :) | 05:01 |
| wall[e] | use* | 05:01 |
| raster | you need to read up on it | 05:01 |
| raster | its not to do with affec ting blender devs | 05:01 |
| raster | the firewall is so weak - u can bypass it trivially | 05:02 |
| raster | the point is - it's the govt telling people what they can and cant see | 05:02 |
| raster | and the list of those things is secret | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh nice | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | they copied the German Idiocy | 05:02 |
| wall[e] | only saw riot part, hehe | 05:02 |
| raster | and the govt insists on doing this despite in polls something like 95%$ of people polled don't want the filter | 05:02 |
| raster | err 95% | 05:02 |
| raster | so regardless of what peolpe want - the govt will do it because they are pandering to special interest groups | 05:03 |
| raster | and the senator in charge is a bit of a fundamentalist christian himself | 05:03 |
| raster | its not the govt governing for the people. | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~nuke fundamentalists | 05:03 |
| raster | thats plain to see | 05:03 |
| raster | it's doign whatever the hell it feels like to keep buddies happy | 05:03 |
| raster | the firewall wont affetc those smart enough to know there is a bypass | 05:04 |
| raster | but it will affect the "unwashed masses" | 05:04 |
| raster | and thats all the govt needs to be able to use it as a tool to "sway the masses" | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | DNS filter? | 05:04 |
| raster | no | 05:05 |
| wall[e] | is tor outlawed? | 05:05 |
| raster | transparent port 80 proxy | 05:05 |
| raster | thats all it is | 05:05 |
| raster | no it isnt | 05:05 |
| raster | thats why i said | 05:05 |
| raster | its trivial to get around | 05:05 |
| raster | its a simple transparent http proxy filter | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | tzzz proxy | 05:05 |
| raster | simply bans specific url's | 05:05 |
| raster | doesnt do anything else | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | idiots | 05:06 |
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| *** C-S-B-N900 has quit IRC | 05:06 | |
| wall[e] | we have that here | 05:06 |
| wall[e] | .th | 05:06 |
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| wall[e] | that works well for the mass though, nobody bother effort to bypass that | 05:06 |
| raster | yes - idiots. i know | 05:07 |
| raster | it's more the principle of the matter | 05:07 |
| raster | the vast majority of the populatin does not want it | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 05:07 |
| raster | a democracy is about governing for the people | 05:07 |
| raster | but the govt doesnt give a shit - it will do whatever it likes | 05:07 |
| raster | this isnt a "togh measure needed in tough times and of course its unpopular" | 05:07 |
| raster | its a mechanism for control and accretion of power | 05:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | The notable feature of accretion disks is the holes at the centre. | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | how iwll they enforce it? | 05:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I mean, probably 95% of providers also don't like it. probably 100% | 05:09 |
| raster | do by law. all isp's must implement the filter by law, and they must use the govt supplied blacklist | 05:09 |
| *** GuySoft has quit IRC | 05:09 | |
| raster | yes | 05:09 |
| *** GuySoft has joined #maemo | 05:10 | |
| raster | most isp's dont liek it or want it | 05:10 |
| raster | but they will have to by law implement it | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | just refuse | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | do a bad job | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's expensive | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | it often fails X-P | 05:10 |
| Termana | raster, assuming the law even passes through | 05:10 |
| raster | that will end up an expensive way to fight it | 05:11 |
| raster | as they will b e levied with hefty fines | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I assume Australia got no "Volksbegehren" | 05:11 |
| *** Mek has quit IRC | 05:11 | |
| raster | Termana: it will because the govt wants it and the opposition doesnt oppose it | 05:12 |
| Termana | Theres an election in '11 as well for Australia, I think, so we can just vote someone else that will get rid of it, in. | 05:12 |
| Termana | raster, I thought the opposition opposed? | 05:12 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: we do, but the govt calls a referendum | 05:13 |
| raster | not the people | 05:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | we here in D got a new party based on opposition against such ideas and laws. Got a considerable amount of votes though was just 6 months old | 05:13 |
| raster | Termana: the opposition won't - they have not opposed the filter - unliek almost everything else the instantly oppose | 05:13 |
| raster | there is n alternative | 05:13 |
| raster | there is no one to vote for who will oppose it | 05:13 |
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| *** pcfe has joined #maemo | 05:14 | |
| Termana | Well, looks like I'll be moving out of Australia. :P Anyone want to go to Sweden, I hear they have great internet speeds and lax laws | 05:14 |
| raster | same | 05:14 |
| wall[e] | just wonder, i love this, but do politics allow on #maemo? coz it's banned from tmo | 05:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | pirate party :-D | 05:15 |
| Termana | tmo and #maemo are separate. | 05:15 |
| raster | i wrote to conroy's office - told him that all he will succeed in doing is braion-draining the nation as those smart enough to realise they are just being shafted and democracy doesn't work, will simply leave | 05:15 |
| wall[e] | :D | 05:15 |
| raster | and people who can leave so easily are the most valuable members of society - they bring in the most money, ideas, business etc. etc. | 05:15 |
| raster | so i'm off | 05:15 |
| raster | au can wallow in its own mess | 05:15 |
| Termana | raster, where are you intending to move? :P | 05:16 |
| raster | yes | 05:16 |
| wall[e] | china! | 05:16 |
| raster | moving | 05:16 |
| raster | looks like .kr | 05:16 |
| raster | at least they have fast internets | 05:16 |
| raster | :) | 05:16 |
| Termana | .kr - isn't that South Korea? | 05:17 |
| raster | yes | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought you planned Austria | 05:17 |
| wall[e] | and people are so beautiful | 05:17 |
| *** GuySoft has quit IRC | 05:17 | |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: life takes me many places | 05:17 |
| raster | :) | 05:17 |
| wall[e] | one nation that people looks best among others | 05:17 |
| *** GuySoft has joined #maemo | 05:17 | |
| Termana | Just be careful the North doesn't bomb you | 05:17 |
| * raster shrugs | 05:17 | |
| raster | i wont stay there forever | 05:17 |
| * SpeedEvil likes Scotland. | 05:18 | |
| raster | i'll stay until i finally have the perfect linux phone out and working | 05:18 |
| raster | and well... stay as long as that holds my interest :) | 05:18 |
| *** rodarvus_ is now known as rodarvus | 05:18 | |
| wall[e] | how it's perfect if e isn't running on it? | 05:18 |
| Termana | :P | 05:19 |
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| *** rodarvus has joined #maemo | 05:19 | |
| * raster hums a little tune | 05:19 | |
| SpeedEvil | Clearly the perfect linux phone runs slackware/fvwm95. | 05:19 |
| ljp | fvwm95 mobile | 05:19 |
| Termana | heh | 05:19 |
| Termana | you can have that 'perfect' linux phone - all to yourself :P | 05:20 |
| Termana | Though, you could probably do that with the n900 | 05:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Does anyone have any numbers as to how slow qemu-x86 would be on n900? | 05:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.tuug.fi/~toni/serendipity/index.php?/archives/9-Windows-NT-4.0-running-on-N900!.html | 05:21 |
| raster | Termana: n900 is mediocre hw at best | 05:22 |
| Termana | raster, I merely meant that you could probably use slackware and fvwm95 on the n900, not that it was the perfect hardware :P | 05:23 |
| * DocScrutinizer finds raster staying at .kr for the rest of his life | 05:24 | |
| raster | you could | 05:24 |
| raster | but why? | 05:24 |
| Termana | raster, | 05:24 |
| Termana | <SpeedEvil> Clearly the perfect linux phone runs slackware/fvwm95. | 05:24 |
| Termana | It was a joke | 05:24 |
| raster | :) | 05:24 |
| wall[e] | clearly aster has speedevil in his ignore list | 05:24 |
| raster | thus "why" :) | 05:24 |
| wall[e] | raster! | 05:24 |
| raster | no - i dont :) | 05:25 |
| wall[e] | j/k | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | at the time the perfect linux phone is ready for rollout, the goalpost has moved quite a lot | 05:25 |
| raster | i know it was a joke | 05:25 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: i know. | 05:25 |
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| wall[e] | anyphone with resistive touch and run mypaint is a perfect phone | 05:25 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: tho for me perfect means "fast enough" and frankly - i already have that hw on my desk | 05:25 |
| raster | hw-wise its "good enough" | 05:25 |
| raster | and thats just getting better | 05:25 |
| raster | n900 is sub-par in that dept | 05:26 |
| Termana | raster, if you consider then n900 mediocre hardware, what do you consider good enough hardware currently, that runs Linux the way the n900 does (not Android) (at least out of box) | 05:26 |
| Termana | the n900* | 05:26 |
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| Funnyface | what's the problem with the N900 hardware? | 05:26 |
| Funnyface | it's great :P | 05:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | raster: What's the problem with the n900 hw? | 05:27 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: I can give niggles. | 05:27 |
| raster | software is the bit i focus on. and for me that means it runs e + efl. x11. is "open" (everyone has different definitions of open and what's acceptable) | 05:27 |
| raster | well 1. resistive ts on n900 - fail. | 05:27 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: more RAM would be nice, and some HW decisions are a bit questionable. | 05:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Why should I care? | 05:27 |
| raster | sorry - resistive is just wrong. it's hopelessly insensitive, can'td do multiple touches. | 05:27 |
| SpeedEvil | It just works? | 05:27 |
| Termana | I don't think there is actually ANY other phone, besides Freerunner and the first Openmoko phone, on the market that run a full normal linux stack out of the box | 05:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I agree on the second. | 05:28 |
| wall[e] | capacitive ts on other without pressure sensitivity - fail | 05:28 |
| Funnyface | raster: it's sensitive enough :P | 05:28 |
| raster | lcd - sub-par. amoled thanks. super amoled. | 05:28 |
| timeless_mbp | raster: how's e's support for multitouch? | 05:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I disagree totally on the first | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: it can do mt | 05:28 |
| raster | Funnyface: use capacitive ts's for a while and you will realise just how bad it is | 05:28 |
| SpeedEvil | The screen is quite good enough for me. | 05:28 |
| wall[e] | some resistive will do multi touch, just not n900's :( | 05:28 |
| raster | timeless_mbp: it's there. | 05:28 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: What aspect of the screen is bad? | 05:29 |
| Termana | And I'm not even sure the Freerunner and 1973 can still be brought, let alone the fact I would consider the hardware subpar to the n900 | 05:29 |
| wall[e] | but most cap screen are junk for painting | 05:29 |
| raster | SpeedEvil: iuntil u stick it side by side with a super amoled screen - u dont know what you're missing | 05:29 |
| raster | black is not blacxk | 05:29 |
| wall[e] | unless you want junk in return | 05:29 |
| raster | its grey | 05:29 |
| Funnyface | the display is great, great colours, great resolution :P | 05:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: The neo1973 can be bought. I will sell mine for only ONE BILLION DOLLARS! | 05:29 |
| raster | colours are washed out | 05:29 |
| timeless_mbp | raster: please continue your list past point 1. | 05:29 |
| raster | seriously | 05:29 |
| raster | timeless_mbp: already on #2 | 05:29 |
| raster | cpu is relatively slow | 05:29 |
| Funnyface | I can help you add a second point to your list :P | 05:29 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: Fair enough - the screen is arguable. I disagree on ts. | 05:29 |
| Funnyface | it lacks some hardware buttons on the front panel | 05:30 |
| Termana | SpeedEvil, Good luck ever trying to sell it for that :P | 05:30 |
| raster | these days - the stuff i have in front of me in raw compute is 2x what the n900 manages | 05:30 |
| raster | and its only clocking in at 800mhz | 05:30 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 05:30 |
| raster | mostly because the memory subsystem is better | 05:30 |
| SpeedEvil | 2* is not actually that interesting. | 05:30 |
| raster | much better | 05:30 |
| Termana | raster, development boards? | 05:30 |
| raster | gpu-wise it's about 3-4x what the n900 does | 05:30 |
| raster | no | 05:30 |
| SpeedEvil | The harder issue is getting the sw people to do sane stuff. | 05:30 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: and that's apps again. | 05:30 |
| raster | full on device in a case | 05:30 |
| wall[e] | DocScrutinizer, can n900's ts and not strontum ts do mt? | 05:30 |
| raster | prorotype admittedly | 05:30 |
| timeless_mbp | raster: what's the price point? | 05:31 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: Sure - you've got shiny hardware. Needs app-devels to do it. | 05:31 |
| raster | prototype | 05:31 |
| timeless_mbp | last i checked, protos ran somewhere upwards of 6kCUR | 05:31 |
| raster | no price point | 05:31 |
| timeless_mbp | most people aren't willing to shell out 6kCUR | 05:31 |
| wall[e] | but i only see mt useful for musicians | 05:31 |
| timeless_mbp | you're comparing a product which isn't on the market with one that is | 05:31 |
| raster | its the same hw that is in production devices though | 05:31 |
| timeless_mbp | this is fair, how? | 05:31 |
| SpeedEvil | With one that has been for 6 months even | 05:31 |
| raster | timeless_mbp: scroll back and see where the discussion started | 05:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | suppose i had a proto on my desk at the office which had better specs | 05:32 |
| Termana | raster, what hardware are we talking? (cpu etc.) | 05:32 |
| timeless_mbp | (i don't have a desk, so.. it's purely hypothetical) | 05:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I note also that there would be a 'drop in' CPU speed improvement for the n900 | 05:32 |
| Termana | what SoC rather | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | wall[e]: afaik not | 05:32 |
| SpeedEvil | With the faster grade of SoC | 05:32 |
| SpeedEvil | (drop-in for nokia) | 05:32 |
| wall[e] | i see thanks | 05:32 |
| raster | <raster> DocScrutinizer: tho for me perfect means "fast enough" and frankly - i already have that hw on my desk | 05:32 |
| timeless_mbp | the discussion seemed to start with governments and isps and idiots | 05:32 |
| raster | <raster> hw-wise its "good enough" | 05:33 |
| raster | <raster> and thats just getting better | 05:33 |
| raster | the hw on my desk inside the prototype is the same thats rolling out in announced products already | 05:33 |
| raster | they are shipping soon i think | 05:33 |
| raster | same as galaxy s and wave | 05:33 |
| * wall[e] must miss some points | 05:34 | |
| raster | DocScrutinizer said i'd be waiting for the perfect phone forever | 05:34 |
| raster | my point is - i have hw that is already good enough | 05:34 |
| raster | and it just gets better | 05:34 |
| raster | n900 is below my expectations | 05:34 |
| Funnyface | what device do you have? | 05:34 |
| raster | (its also horribly bulky - another point iwas going to make) | 05:34 |
| timeless_mbp | he has a product which isn't on the market yet | 05:34 |
| raster | Funnyface: prototypes | 05:34 |
| Funnyface | well it's an internet tablet :P | 05:35 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: Does your hw have hardware keyb? | 05:35 |
| wall[e] | how about china made phones? | 05:35 |
| wall[e] | those run androids | 05:35 |
| *** GuySoft has quit IRC | 05:35 | |
| timeless_mbp | and is comparing it with a product which has been available for ~9months | 05:35 |
| * wall[e] doesn't like hw kb | 05:35 | |
| *** viatech has quit IRC | 05:35 | |
| wall[e] | hard to press, doesn't support my language | 05:35 |
| *** GuySoft has joined #maemo | 05:35 | |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: ~6 surely | 05:35 |
| raster | SpeedEvil: no. and i'm happy enough without it as the screen is sensitive and mt-capable already (and enabled with drivers etc.) | 05:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: shrug, 6 months is december | 05:35 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: 7 maybe | 05:35 |
| timeless_mbp | it was available for show in august | 05:35 |
| raster | wall[e]: china phones are all 2g (well almost all) | 05:35 |
| Funnyface | I like HW keyboard, but regardless of whether people like it or not, it's better to have one there than to not have it | 05:35 |
| Funnyface | the N900 has both :P | 05:35 |
| wall[e] | raster, ah I see | 05:36 |
| raster | also tend to be very low-spec otherwise too | 05:36 |
| timeless_mbp | i was able to show it to my sister then | 05:36 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: I was counting from first orders arriving at users | 05:36 |
| asjWrk | the n900 on screen kb is fairly useless | 05:36 |
| Funnyface | there may be situations where touch only is shit | 05:36 |
| wall[e] | yeh better not have them | 05:36 |
| wall[e] | i use them for playing game | 05:36 |
| raster | anyway - point is. hw is there/. software isn't | 05:36 |
| raster | being worked on | 05:36 |
| Funnyface | for example, try playing any games that are not specifically designed for touch or tilting on a touchscreen | 05:36 |
| Termana | raster, what do you think of Snapdragon SoCs? | 05:36 |
| raster | needs to be open enough | 05:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: err - no. If you don't use a hw keyboard - it's lots more robust and smaller | 05:36 |
| wall[e] | since mt doesn't work, hw kb is neccessary | 05:36 |
| raster | Termana: i can't really say. never had one to play with, but what what i read the soc i have here equals the snapdragon or beats it in all departments | 05:37 |
| raster | expecially gpu | 05:37 |
| Funnyface | speed: well what I mean is that sometimes you'll hear iFans saying "hardware keyboard sucks, so my iPhone is better", the N900 has both :p | 05:37 |
| raster | its pushing about 2-3x the speed on the gpu side compred to snapdragon | 05:37 |
| Funnyface | it's better to have a feature that sucks, than to not have it at all :p | 05:37 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: anyway, your metric will delay his proto another couple of months :) | 05:37 |
| wall[e] | hw kb is very slow to type | 05:38 |
| wall[e] | i think | 05:38 |
| raster | the n900 hw kbd is nig useless | 05:38 |
| raster | nigh | 05:38 |
| raster | they made it too thin | 05:38 |
| raster | (vertically) | 05:38 |
| wall[e] | only 3 lines | 05:38 |
| timeless_mbp | raster: typically we call that "short" | 05:38 |
| wall[e] | i need 4 | 05:38 |
| raster | no space above the top row for fingers to overlap so it makes it hard to type | 05:38 |
| Funnyface | I preferred the 4 line keyboard of my old device indeed | 05:38 |
| timeless_mbp | thin is not generally used for that dimension... | 05:38 |
| raster | the g1 is massively better in that dept | 05:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | wall[e]: I'm up to 30wpm on it | 05:39 |
| raster | the hw kbd on the n900 could probably be thrown out | 05:39 |
| wall[e] | SpeedEvil, how about your onscreen speed? | 05:39 |
| Funnyface | anyway it was mostly the OS, and the great display, + decent battery time that made me go for the N900 | 05:39 |
| raster | but resistive ts limtis the ability to do a good vkbd | 05:39 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, w/ pr12, the lack of the fourth row is less of a problem | 05:39 |
| timeless_mbp | and no, i'm not a big fan of the hardware designers for the n900 | 05:39 |
| timeless_mbp | we sadly had no control over the design, it was essentially given to us as is | 05:40 |
| raster | n900 is mediocre | 05:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Another 1mm of slide would have made the keyoard a fair bit easier | 05:40 |
| raster | not crap - just mediocre | 05:40 |
| raster | (hw-wise) | 05:40 |
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| wall[e] | SpeedEvil, you only type with thumbs? | 05:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's not mediochre. It's black. | 05:40 |
| SpeedEvil | wall[e]: yes | 05:40 |
| wall[e] | ok, thanks | 05:40 |
| ljp | the whole resistive vs. capacitive debate is subjective | 05:40 |
| * SpeedEvil can't wait for inductive screens to show up. | 05:41 | |
| SpeedEvil | Or memristive. | 05:41 |
| Funnyface | actually I think it's good that you need to apply a little force to click :P | 05:41 |
| wall[e] | cap doesn't do pressure sensitivity currently, so it sucks, end of question. | 05:41 |
| wall[e] | oh, with stylus. | 05:41 |
| raster | ljp: any debate like that is | 05:41 |
| raster | but what matters is what most people prefer | 05:41 |
| Funnyface | that way you can support the phone lightly with your thumb without clicking :p | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | memristive?? | 05:41 |
| raster | and statistically capacitive has the votes | 05:41 |
| ljp | most people have never used a touchscreen | 05:41 |
| raster | i definitely find cap much better | 05:41 |
| raster | \i can reliably drag shit around with no pressure | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | same here | 05:42 |
| raster | ljp: if you require all peole in the world to be part of a vote then you're never going to get anywhere | 05:42 |
| asjWrk | capacitive depends on how it's been setup, they don't have to be ultra sensitive | 05:42 |
| * SpeedEvil does not get tired exerting a force of several grams on a screen. | 05:42 | |
| raster | asjWrk: no they dont | 05:42 |
| raster | but they CAN be | 05:42 |
| raster | and invariably are | 05:42 |
| asjWrk | raster: I have 3 here that aren't | 05:43 |
| raster | and i just throw the thng into my pocket and it stops having the screen touched | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: the contrary - I really like it | 05:43 |
| raster | and nicely sleeps | 05:43 |
| raster | without getting continual pocket-presses | 05:43 |
| Termana | raster brings up a good point with the dragging - if you've tried to do this this, on some devices, it plain wont work even with pressure | 05:43 |
| Termana | tried to do this* | 05:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | Works fine on the n900 for me | 05:43 |
| raster | Termana: well the cap screen i have is good | 05:43 |
| raster | its quite sensitive - handles up to 10 touchpoints, though onyl 3 exposed. | 05:43 |
| SpeedEvil | The whole 'capacitive/resistive' thing is bullshit. | 05:43 |
| raster | SpeedEvil: i disagree | 05:44 |
| Termana | raster, mmm works fine for capacitive AFAIK, but not that great on resistive | 05:44 |
| SpeedEvil | There are bad implementations of both | 05:44 |
| * SpeedEvil wants SAW. | 05:44 | |
| raster | true | 05:44 |
| raster | but resistive simply cant do things cap can | 05:44 |
| raster | the pocket example | 05:44 |
| wall[e] | cap can't do painting as well? | 05:44 |
| ljp | SpeedEvil: agreed. I have a n900 and ipod touch and the difference is negligable, except for multitouch which is a niche function | 05:44 |
| raster | that alone imho is worth going for cap | 05:44 |
| Funnyfacemob | how accurate is cap btw? | 05:44 |
| asjWrk | or the glove thing for example | 05:44 |
| raster | wall[e]: of course it can | 05:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | and cap can't do things I like on r-ts | 05:44 |
| wall[e] | raster, pressure sensitive with stylus point? | 05:45 |
| raster | Funnyfacemob: very. | 05:45 |
| raster | Funnyfacemob: holding my finger down i can get it to move by 1-2 pixels with a delicate move ofmy finger | 05:45 |
| raster | and i can control it | 05:45 |
| Termana | raster, isn't it possible that the warmth from your leg is possible to trigger touchscreen reactions? May not be enough through pants though | 05:45 |
| raster | (and thats 480x800 3.5" screen) | 05:45 |
| timeless_mbp | the glove example is fairly important in snowstorms :) | 05:45 |
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| Termana | (on capacitive) | 05:46 |
| Funnyfacemob | if I calibrate the screen and pull up the stylus to draw something, it gets pretty much dead on, is capacitive the same? | 05:46 |
| asjWrk | or riding motorcycles | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: but you'll never see the 1..2 pixels you move as the touch is under your fat fingers | 05:46 |
| raster | wall[e]: u can have capacitive styluses, and pressure sensitivity is normally done as area of touch on cap | 05:46 |
| GAN900 | Funnyface, no. | 05:46 |
| raster | ie a finger will deform as it presses harder | 05:46 |
| raster | i like the fact i dont have a stylus to worry about | 05:46 |
| GAN900 | Capacitive simply isn't as precise | 05:46 |
| wall[e] | raster, but stylus doesn't give area | 05:46 |
| GAN900 | accuracy is the wrong word. | 05:47 |
| wall[e] | only finger do | 05:47 |
| GAN900 | Capacitive vs resistive really comes down to personal preferences. | 05:47 |
| wall[e] | and when you use finger it isn't as accurate as stylus | 05:47 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: i can tell because i've done measurements.. and i can see by scrolling things too | 05:47 |
| GAN900 | Any claim that one tech is better than the other is bullshit | 05:47 |
| raster | wall[e]: u can have a soft stylus that deforms | 05:47 |
| GAN900 | It's only true in certain use cases. | 05:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: you missed my point. you always have a covered touchpoint | 05:47 |
| wall[e] | raster, must build one | 05:47 |
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| wall[e] | not working out of the box | 05:48 |
| Funnyfacemob | I never need the stylus for any of the maemo apps, however with these debian apps that aren't designed for touch, I sometimes use the stylus. it's better than nothing in those cases :P | 05:48 |
| Termana | One thing nice about capacitive is it forces you to build a touch friendly interface | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: and I hate hat offset crap | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | that | 05:48 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: in all cases you do. | 05:48 |
| raster | ewith resisitve and capacitive | 05:48 |
| GAN900 | What Nokia needs to do is give their customers a goddamn choice | 05:48 |
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| raster | if you insist on minimising it - you use a stylus. both types can have styluses | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, with r-ts I have a pinpoint touch spot | 05:48 |
| daniel32708 | has anyone done a login screen for maemo? or an alternative lock code (maybe letters)? | 05:48 |
| GAN900 | Not force one or the other on people who don't want it. | 05:48 |
| raster | but capacitive works better in the absence of one | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | by using stylus, nail, whatever | 05:49 |
| raster | its also more natural | 05:49 |
| GAN900 | raster, capacitive is not as precise. | 05:49 |
| raster | GAN900: there i beg to differ - my actual numbers say it is | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: c-ts can not have a stylus, just sausage | 05:49 |
| Termana | GAN900, you have an n900 and a Nexus One - what screen do you prefer personally, the n900 resistive or N1 capacitive? | 05:49 |
| GAN900 | raster, and "more natural" is about as subjective a statement as it gets. | 05:49 |
| GAN900 | Termana, N900 by leaps and bounds | 05:50 |
| GAN900 | I've also used all 3 generations of iPhone and the iPad | 05:50 |
| GAN900 | Still greatly prefer the N900's touchscreen | 05:50 |
| raster | GAN900: pointing with a finger vs getign a styulus and writing with it... which one of thses needs to be a learned action? | 05:50 |
| wall[e] | anyway, deform stylus will cover the pixel | 05:50 |
| Funnyfacemob | someone actually bought the iPad? :) | 05:50 |
| GAN900 | raster, I don't use a stylus | 05:50 |
| GAN900 | raster, so your hypothetical situation reveals bias. | 05:51 |
| raster | and which is done naturally years before you ever manage to learn to use an impliment to point it at things? | 05:51 |
| Termana | Don't you get tired of that swirl to zoom motion? :P Personally I think thats rather bad, multi touch pinch to zoom feels better. But I guess they worked with what they had | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: I can't use my nails on a c-ts | 05:51 |
| GAN900 | Termana, double-tap | 05:51 |
| GAN900 | Termana, and pinching is just awkward. | 05:51 |
| GAN900 | Termana, besides, multitouch is hardly unique to capacitive. | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: and I get a first hit accuracy of 1mm*3mm this way. Can't ever get that on a c-ts | 05:52 |
| daniel32708 | has anyone done a login screen for maemo? or an alternative lock code (maybe letters)? | 05:52 |
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| raster | DocScrutinizer: good luck with getting that on the bus | 05:52 |
| raster | or walking down the street | 05:52 |
| Termana | GAN900, right, I've seen the "trick" resistive multi touch. I don't thats any good either. | 05:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | no problem | 05:52 |
| Funnyfacemob | well multitouch is a + to capacitive, whether people find it useful or not, its better to have it than to not have it | 05:52 |
| Termana | Not very useful either | 05:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw I'm rarely on the bus | 05:52 |
| GAN900 | Termana, two-touch isn't what I'm talking about. | 05:52 |
| raster | Funnyfacemob: mt is requuired if u want a proper vkbd | 05:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | and when I'm I can still touch with my fat(ty) fingers | 05:53 |
| GAN900 | Termana, Stantum. | 05:53 |
| Funnyfacemob | I prefer zooming with the +/- hw keys at the side of the phone | 05:53 |
| GAN900 | raster, also an interesting claim | 05:53 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: u wont get the accurace | 05:53 |
| raster | as you, the phone and finger bump about | 05:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | tzz | 05:53 |
| raster | your accuracy drops massively | 05:53 |
| wall[e] | Funnyface, pressure sensivity with stylus as well | 05:53 |
| wall[e] | which cap screen doesn't have it | 05:53 |
| * GAN900 does 60 WPM on the N800's finger keyboard | 05:53 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | come visit me, so I'll show you | 05:53 |
| * GAN900 thinks raster is revealing an awful lot of bias. | 05:54 | |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: sit on a sydney bus and show me :) | 05:54 |
| Termana | GAN900, yeah ok, there is actual multi touch for resistive - but we're talking about whats actually implemented, I don't think Stantum has been implemented on a marketed device yet | 05:54 |
| raster | GAN900: when doing a vkbd eventually u will end up pressing 2 keys at once | 05:54 |
| raster | both are depressed (u press 1 key, then the next but havent release the first yet) | 05:54 |
| GAN900 | Yes, I'm aware of the concept | 05:54 |
| raster | to handle that proeprly ands not mis-press you need mt. | 05:54 |
| GAN900 | Nokia solved this in software | 05:54 |
| asjWrk | raster: I don't think you do | 05:55 |
| GAN900 | and not having that doesn't make a un "proper" vkb. | 05:55 |
| raster | GAN900: where? n900 | 05:55 |
| raster | ? | 05:55 |
| * GAN900 goes back to reading. | 05:55 | |
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| raster | there is no vkbd there... so no solution | 05:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I give a shit on vkbd. that's why I got a N900 with r-ts | 05:55 |
| asjWrk | raster: the argument you make relies on two fingers touching the kb at the same time and releasing at the same time | 05:56 |
| onefish | out of curiosity, have any of you that prefer capacitve screens been using pdas for a longer time? | 05:56 |
| raster | and n800/80 (os2008 etc.) definitely had zero solution to anything like that | 05:56 |
| asjWrk | raster: which can never happen, so the question is, can you infer key presses with order by using time? | 05:56 |
| raster | asjWrk: no - i know the solution you are going to propose | 05:56 |
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| raster | if the point moves suddenly without a release in ebtween you take previous point and extrapolate to guess where the new point may have been | 05:56 |
| asjWrk | raster: there's no guess, you know | 05:57 |
| raster | highly problematic to do as that point moves a lot based on varying pressure on the 2 points | 05:57 |
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| asjWrk | toss all the data at that time it's unstable | 05:57 |
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| asjWrk | so you'll see something like Press A----->highly moving press----->Press B | 05:58 |
| raster | your other option is to require data to be stable rpreas and release or not for a minimum time to get the next point | 05:58 |
| raster | and that is generally problematic as its guessing that the ssudden move then stabilisation of point is in fact a new press point | 05:58 |
| raster | to do it properly you need mt | 05:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 05:59 |
| raster | without making bad guesses/losing data | 05:59 |
| asjWrk | you haven't proven that | 05:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | we have | 05:59 |
| raster | you havent proven the opposite | 05:59 |
| GAN900 | raster, Maemo 5 has a vkb | 05:59 |
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| acidjazz | any updates to maemo recently? | 05:59 |
| GAN900 | it uses the lift point rather than the touch point for key choice. | 05:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | but actually, the debate is really far off | 05:59 |
| raster | GAN900: where is it? as there simply is none on my n900. | 05:59 |
| wall[e] | ukeyboard? | 06:00 |
| Funnyfacemob | you have to enable it in the settings | 06:00 |
| GAN900 | raster, settings, close the keyboard, tap a text field | 06:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | raster: vkbd??? | 06:00 |
| raster | there is no vkbd setting | 06:00 |
| wall[e] | anyway, is there a way to force vkbd to pop up when the slider is on? | 06:00 |
| SpeedEvil | ... | 06:00 |
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| Funnyfacemob | tested it just now out of curiousity.. it covers the whole screen :S | 06:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, just close the slide and set focus to textfield | 06:00 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: yes, there is | 06:01 |
| raster | nothing | 06:01 |
| raster | no vkbd | 06:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | wall[e]: nope, afaik | 06:01 |
| raster | press text field | 06:01 |
| raster | nada | 06:01 |
| asjWrk | raster: I've simply provided an alternative that requires somewhat simplistic data processing, key precess are insanely long and slow events after all | 06:01 |
| Funnyfacemob | works here, must be your device then :P | 06:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: check you settings -> input | 06:01 |
| wall[e] | DocScrutinizer, :S, just like alt-sym would be nice | 06:01 |
| ljp | rasters' n900 is playing a trick on him :) | 06:02 |
| wall[e] | he bought china's clone | 06:02 |
| asjWrk | you have to turn on the vkb on the n900 it's odd by default | 06:02 |
| raster | ooh there it is | 06:02 |
| raster | under input | 06:02 |
| Funnyfacemob | haha | 06:02 |
| asjWrk | odd is true too, but I meant off | 06:02 |
| wall[e] | check if there are 2 sim sockets and tv | 06:02 |
| Funnyfacemob | I liked how fail my brother's "hiphone" was | 06:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | settings -> text input -> use vkbd (check mark it) | 06:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: ^^^ | 06:03 |
| Funnyfacemob | drained the battery so fast that it came with 2 batteries in the box | 06:03 |
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| wall[e] | i can however, leave the slider 1/10 way and use both vkbd and hwkb at the same time, DocScrutinizer | 06:04 |
| Funnyfacemob | and it could turn photos into a laggy video if you dragged a photo rapidly around | 06:04 |
| wall[e] | but i don't feel so right about that | 06:04 |
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| raster | thats pretty inaccurate for a fullscreen kbd | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | and WHY the hell would you want to do that?? | 06:05 |
| raster | it doesnt do correction well | 06:05 |
| wall[e] | DocScrutinizer, my hw kb doesn't support thai | 06:05 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders who might have source for a autocorrecting keyboard. | 06:05 | |
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| wall[e] | which can't be implemented on hw kb due to it needs 4 lines | 06:06 |
| wall[e] | but i am thinking of mixing use it with alt-sym short cuts | 06:06 |
| wall[e] | but no character on the panel, so may be a phonetic based is making more sense.. | 06:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet there's a way to pop up the vkbd while slider open | 06:07 |
| wall[e] | must look at how ru do it. | 06:07 |
| wall[e] | i don't know how :/ | 06:07 |
| wall[e] | but having the slider 1/10 way to open isn't that bad, just.. no light in the dark | 06:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | well the switching tween vkbd and hwkbd for sure is opensource | 06:08 |
| Funnyfacemob | raster: its a bit about what youre used to as well | 06:08 |
| wall[e] | indeed | 06:08 |
| wall[e] | him something | 06:08 |
| wall[e] | hildron input method framework. | 06:08 |
| wall[e] | didn't have time to dive into that yet | 06:08 |
| wall[e] | i'd want alternative input style widget, like gesture text input | 06:09 |
| wall[e] | i have heard someone done 80wpm | 06:09 |
| wall[e] | was that a joke? | 06:09 |
| raster | Funnyfacemob: i've done both rs and cs and cs by far feels better, misses many fewer hits, drags better, doesnt pocket-press. | 06:09 |
| wall[e] | good you don't use for painting | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | or writing | 06:10 |
| wall[e] | i know you are good at painting but beat me http://www.flickr.com/photos/30142075@N00/4584058583/ with a cap ts | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | or just with your nails | 06:10 |
| raster | i dant write anymore anyway | 06:11 |
| raster | my handwriting is attrocious | 06:11 |
| * wall[e] too | 06:11 | |
| DocScrutinizer | :x | 06:11 |
| wall[e] | writing sucks | 06:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 06:11 |
| wall[e] | who write? | 06:11 |
| raster | agreed | 06:11 |
| raster | only old people do | 06:11 |
| wall[e] | end of the era! | 06:11 |
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| raster | :) | 06:11 |
| wall[e] | :) | 06:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 06:11 |
| raster | wall[e]: http://www.rasterman.com/drawings/draw3.jpg | 06:12 |
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| raster | http://www.rasterman.com/drawings/draw4.jpg | 06:12 |
| raster | http://www.rasterman.com/drawings/draw5.jpg | 06:12 |
| wall[e] | on cap ts? | 06:12 |
| raster | no | 06:12 |
| raster | with an actual pen and paper | 06:12 |
| raster | :) | 06:12 |
| ljp | bah! thats so old skool | 06:12 |
| raster | couldnt do that on any ts | 06:13 |
| wall[e] | i have seen your works since 10 years ago may be when i joined wmaker core dev :P | 06:13 |
| raster | probalem is hand always touchsing screen instead of pen | 06:13 |
| raster | (ie hand resting on surface) | 06:13 |
| raster | cap has that prob too | 06:13 |
| raster | these days tho - i do it all with mouse and on screen | 06:13 |
| Funnyfacemob | well you can decrease the res sensitivity I guess :P | 06:13 |
| wall[e] | i put it on the table | 06:13 |
| raster | for me drawign with mosue is as natural as a pen | 06:13 |
| raster | and it has fewer problems :) | 06:14 |
| wall[e] | and part of hand on the floor | 06:14 |
| raster | wall[e]: i guess since its small u can do that | 06:14 |
| raster | but that drawing is pretty good | 06:14 |
| wall[e] | yes | 06:14 |
| raster | (the girl) | 06:14 |
| wall[e] | yours too! | 06:14 |
| raster | that reminds me | 06:14 |
| raster | i need to work on my todo list | 06:14 |
| * DocScrutinizer yawns | 06:14 | |
| wall[e] | work time! | 06:15 |
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| raster | ok | 06:15 |
| raster | gl engine does 90 degree rotates | 06:15 |
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| raster | what else | 06:15 |
| raster | hmm thats right | 06:15 |
| raster | nested scroller works for key/wheel control | 06:15 |
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| raster | need that | 06:15 |
| raster | then need to make sliders work in scrollers too | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw my phone has a proximity sensor which prevents unintended touch actions inside pocket much more reliable than any c-ts does by inherent properties ;-P | 06:16 |
| Funnyfacemob | lol | 06:17 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: n900? | 06:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, what else | 06:18 |
| raster | where is that sensor? | 06:18 |
| raster | i dont see it | 06:18 |
| wall[e] | next to speaker | 06:18 |
| Funnyfacemob | next to the ear speaker | 06:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | upper left corner, next to cam | 06:19 |
| raster | oh between camera and speaker | 06:19 |
| raster | right? | 06:19 |
| wall[e] | i thought it was infrared | 06:19 |
| wall[e] | when i tried qirreco | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | and before you ask, no it's not (yet) configurable to do that in all apps | 06:19 |
| wall[e] | and i wonder why it didn't work | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, right | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | wall[e]: IR apperture is next to cam button | 06:20 |
| Funnyfacemob | are there any apps that make use of the front camera yet? | 06:20 |
| Funnyfacemob | other than the mirror app | 06:20 |
| wall[e] | DocScrutinizer, yes, found out a couple days later lol | 06:20 |
| wall[e] | was an idiot | 06:20 |
| * DocScrutinizer waves | 06:21 | |
| DocScrutinizer | night #maemo | 06:21 |
| * wall[e] waves | 06:21 | |
| Termana | good night DocScrutinizer | 06:21 |
| wall[e] | g'nite, thank you helping us fumbling raster | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster and me have more notions in common than we have different ones | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | muuch more | 06:22 |
| wall[e] | X-D | 06:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | just he has a faible for c-ts, which I don't share | 06:23 |
| raster | yeah | 06:23 |
| raster | we disagree on our ts tech | 06:23 |
| raster | but thats fine | 06:23 |
| raster | we agree on most other things | 06:23 |
| wall[e] | noticed! | 06:23 |
| Funnyfacemob | I agree that the n900s hardware may not be the best, but I still think it is good enough, I wouldn't have complained about 128MB RAM or a 450MHz CPU | 06:25 |
| Funnyfacemob | it's fast enough for a device like this :p | 06:25 |
| Termana | I wonder what all these people that favour resistive are going to do when Nokia goes over to capacitive? :P | 06:26 |
| asjWrk | Termana: cut holes in the end of my gloves? | 06:26 |
| wall[e] | Termana, soon cap will do pressure sensivity | 06:26 |
| wall[e] | i saw a news about that | 06:26 |
| asjWrk | Termana: I'm guessing they may end up with a bit of a mixes bag of phone | 06:27 |
| Termana | wall[e], I think Nokia will be implementing pure capacitive on the Harmattan device | 06:27 |
| wall[e] | Termana, then a bluetooth pen with pressure sensivity is my only hope | 06:28 |
| Termana | Thats probably more speculation than fact though - so either of us could be wrong :P | 06:28 |
| wall[e] | or i'll wait till wacom build cintiq-phone! | 06:29 |
| wall[e] | i plan to use n900 for 5 years | 06:29 |
| wall[e] | before that it was t68 | 06:29 |
| wall[e] | ericsson's) | 06:29 |
| Funnyfacemob | hehe my thought when getting the n900 was also "now I probably won't have to get a new device for a few years" | 06:30 |
| wall[e] | is it good for torrenting? | 06:31 |
| Funnyfacemob | I initially thought the same thing when I bought a htc tytn ii, but... I was everything but happy about that device | 06:31 |
| asjWrk | Funnyfacemob: when did you buy it? | 06:31 |
| wall[e] | electricity consuming perspective | 06:31 |
| wall[e] | is it bad to plug charger all the time for torrenting? | 06:31 |
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| Funnyfacemob | no idea, haven't tested it much for that | 06:31 |
| wall[e] | will battery life get down if it has charger pluggged in all the time? | 06:32 |
| wall[e] | will n900 works w/o battery? | 06:32 |
| Funnyfacemob | but transmission has a warning saying "this app consumes lots of power" when you run it the first time :P | 06:32 |
| wall[e] | hehehe | 06:32 |
| Funnyfacemob | asjwrk: hmm... | 06:33 |
| wall[e] | but probably better/lower than my PC right? | 06:33 |
| Funnyfacemob | 2-3 months ago maybe | 06:33 |
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| * wall[e] too | 06:33 | |
| asjWrk | Funnyfacemob: so maybe a year ;) | 06:33 |
| wall[e] | my salary is 300 usd monthly, wouldn't afford that in a year | 06:33 |
| Dassu | wall[e]: naw, I dont think so. Using no battery might help but nobdoy wants to do that | 06:33 |
| wall[e] | Dassu, for torrenting while i was sleeping. | 06:34 |
| wall[e] | if that use less electricity than my pc | 06:34 |
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| Funnyfacemob | well li ion doesn't like to be warm and charged to 100% all the time | 06:34 |
| wall[e] | due to heat generation, it shouldn't | 06:34 |
| Funnyfacemob | that's the worst storage condition you xan put it in | 06:35 |
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| Funnyfacemob | but the battery isn't that expensive | 06:35 |
| wall[e] | Funnyfacemob, i guess i can get an expired one just to swap-in for that? | 06:35 |
| wall[e] | if it didn't work w/o any battery? | 06:35 |
| wall[e] | ok, work, need to reflash too | 06:36 |
| wall[e] | good luck for me! | 06:36 |
| wall[e] | first time reflashgin! | 06:36 |
| Funnyfacemob | Ive heard it wont work without battery | 06:36 |
| wall[e] | ah too bad | 06:36 |
| wall[e] | thanks | 06:36 |
| Funnyfacemob | but a bad battery should be fine :P | 06:37 |
| wall[e] | yeh | 06:37 |
| Funnyfacemob | however I am not sure if that heat is from the battery | 06:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | wall[e]: nope. N900 needs bat. And keeping charger connected will not wear bat | 06:37 |
| Funnyfacemob | might be the radio and cpu | 06:37 |
| wall[e] | DocScrutinizer51, cool! thanks! | 06:37 |
| Funnyfacemob | it won't wear the batt as in "overcharging" it | 06:38 |
| Funnyfacemob | but generally li ion wears out faster when its warm and fully charged | 06:38 |
| Funnyfacemob | charger plugged in or not | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes. that's why it's not fully charged most of the time | 06:39 |
| wall[e] | hardware should have something to prevent that automatically? | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~batteryfaq | 06:39 |
| infobot | i guess batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers | 06:39 |
| wall[e] | thanks | 06:40 |
| Funnyfacemob | room temp and 60% was the best storage condition if I remember right | 06:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nope. 10C | 06:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | better | 06:41 |
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| Funnyfacemob | I hope that one day we'll see batteries with a decent capacity that will charge in a few secs | 06:44 |
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| wall[e] | fuelcell? | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not over USB :-P | 06:45 |
| Funnyfacemob | hehe | 06:45 |
| wall[e] | :D | 06:45 |
| Funnyfacemob | well it'll have to be a separate charger | 06:45 |
| wall[e] | something stick and thrown away | 06:45 |
| wall[e] | likes good old AA | 06:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | A123 | 06:47 |
| wall[e] | better made of good, so it's good for nature. | 06:47 |
| wall[e] | looks cool. | 06:48 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: USB4 has a liquid hydrogen line. | 06:48 |
| Funnyfacemob | :D | 06:48 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: This does mean that the cables are 8cm thick - but sacrifices have to be made. | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | cool err cooling? | 06:49 |
| SpeedEvil | No - fuel cell! | 06:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 wonders if ther's such thing like liquid H2 | 06:50 | |
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| Funnyfacemob | compressed | 06:50 |
| Funnyfacemob | or cooled.. maybe | 06:51 |
| wall[e] | and frozen | 06:51 |
| SpeedEvil | liquid hydrogen exists - it's what the shuttle fuel tank has in it for example | 06:51 |
| SpeedEvil | (largely) | 06:51 |
| wall[e] | wp says 20K.. | 06:53 |
| Funnyfacemob | did you get your drivers license now, speed? | 06:53 |
| wall[e] | will flasher format MyDocs? | 06:54 |
| Funnyfacemob | I think so | 06:55 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 starts to wonder about SpeedEvil 's nick | 06:55 | |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: No - funding problems. | 06:55 |
| Funnyfacemob | :( | 06:55 |
| wall[e] | oh | 06:55 |
| wall[e] | thanks | 06:55 |
| wall[e] | should I move backup files away? | 06:55 |
| wall[e] | better to it for everything | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | wall[e]: sure, if you flash emmc | 06:56 |
| Funnyfacemob | you should hurry up and get it done asap so you dont forget how to drive and have to start all over again like my matw | 06:56 |
| wall[e] | DocScrutinizer, can I flash only the system? | 06:56 |
| Funnyfacemob | mate | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sure | 06:56 |
| wall[e] | without MyDocs | 06:56 |
| wall[e] | ok, thanks | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | different files even | 06:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: Yes, I know. It's not that simple unfortunately. | 06:57 |
| wall[e] | mmm, i guess i'll just backup things | 06:57 |
| wall[e] | just for sure | 06:57 |
| Funnyfacemob | my device needs a reflash too.. calibration tool is broken | 06:57 |
| Funnyfacemob | and the display is miscalibrated | 06:58 |
| Funnyfacemob | can't find a solution in the forums other than "reflash" | 06:58 |
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| Funnyfacemob | SpeedEvil: ah well it will be fine one day you see :p | 06:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Funnyfacemob: scan the chan logs for calibration | 06:59 |
| wall[e] | i should have MyDocs under svn | 06:59 |
| SpeedEvil | svn makes tracker a sad panda. | 07:00 |
| wall[e] | lol | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | tracker IS a sad *wombat* | 07:01 |
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| Funnyfacemob | ah finally..bochs in the repositories | 07:06 |
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| wall[e] | is that x86 emu? | 07:06 |
| Funnyfacemob | yes | 07:07 |
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| wall[e] | cool with wine ie will work now | 07:07 |
| wall[e] | or counter strike | 07:08 |
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| wall[e] | :S | 07:08 |
| svanheulen | Hello | 07:08 |
| wall[e] | hello | 07:08 |
| wall[e] | anyone make a n900 an ubuntu boot drive? | 07:09 |
| wall[e] | for x86 | 07:09 |
| Funnyfacemob | well bochs is way too slow for that | 07:10 |
| svanheulen | can't say that i have but that sounds like fun | 07:10 |
| Funnyfacemob | it equals somethimg like a 20MHz x86 | 07:10 |
| wall[e] | yeh was kidding, but how about simcity 2000? | 07:10 |
| wall[e] | remember simcity 2000? | 07:11 |
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| wall[e] | does dosbox emulate x86? | 07:11 |
| svanheulen | heck yes, i loved that game | 07:11 |
| Funnyfacemob | yes | 07:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Lemmings | 07:11 |
| wall[e] | yeh love lemmings | 07:12 |
| svanheulen | the first lemmings was the best! the floppy i had it on failed though and i never found another copy | 07:12 |
| svanheulen | it was sad | 07:12 |
| wall[e] | ever play lemmings 3d? | 07:13 |
| wall[e] | i kinda like it. but only play the demo | 07:13 |
| svanheulen | nope | 07:13 |
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| wall[e] | well, lemmings can turn left-right too, that's all | 07:13 |
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| wall[e] | flash! | 07:14 |
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| wall[e] | anyone know if i can get RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin somewhere? | 07:26 |
| wall[e] | that i can wget -c | 07:26 |
| wall[e] | the file is too large for the connection | 07:27 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders | 07:27 | |
| SpeedEvil | no - my dcc is broken | 07:27 |
| wall[e] | :) | 07:27 |
| wall[e] | may be w3m could help | 07:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I would see if the file could be downloaded with lynx | 07:28 |
| SpeedEvil | set the lynx cookie file to a file | 07:28 |
| SpeedEvil | use the cookie file for wget | 07:29 |
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| wall[e] | hmm thanks | 07:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | or install a download manager for firefox | 07:30 |
| SpeedEvil | hangon - doesn't the normal ff do completion? | 07:31 |
| wall[e] | i don't think so | 07:31 |
| wall[e] | just auto (2) something | 07:31 |
| SpeedEvil | I know 'pause' / 'resume' downloading stops and starts | 07:32 |
| wall[e] | yeh they have that | 07:32 |
| wall[e] | this one i download with ff and it said it's finished | 07:32 |
| wall[e] | at 100M | 07:32 |
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| wall[e] | no idea how to continue it | 07:32 |
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| wall[e] | i also expected some sha-256 | 07:34 |
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| wall[e] | bad downloading service! | 07:35 |
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| kajko | it's quiet here today | 07:45 |
| Stskeeps | indeed | 07:46 |
| rektide | too quiet . . . | 07:46 |
| kajko | yes | 07:47 |
| rektide | i'm listening to the new crystal castles album on youtube | 07:48 |
| rektide | thats a little less quiet | 07:48 |
| svanheulen | empathy is the best song on that | 07:49 |
| rektide | Stskeeps, is mer still going to exist? or is everyone just moving to meego? | 07:49 |
| Stskeeps | rektide: we're all moving to meego it seems like | 07:49 |
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| * SpeedEvil hopes the migration goes well. http://xkcd.com/623/ | 07:51 | |
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| manjiri | I have been able to configure N900 to connect to my wi-fi network. Proxy auth is required to connect to internet through this network. I have set proxy server address in the internet connections. When I try to get updates from applcation manager it says 'Application list partially refreshed. Some catalogues unavailable'. In the application manager log I see : 407 proxy authentication required. | 08:40 |
| manjiri | Browser asks for proxy user name pwd. App manager doent | 08:41 |
| manjiri | Where can I set these values? | 08:41 |
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| RST38h | Mhm....GPS satellite is out of control | 08:49 |
| viliny__ | manjiri: http://blog.mypapit.net/2006/02/how-to-use-apt-get-behind-proxy-server-ubuntudebian.html - hope this helps you | 08:50 |
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| Manjiri | I have been able to configure N900 to connect to my wi-fi network. Proxy auth is required to connect to internet through this network. I have set proxy server address in the internet connections. When I try to get updates from applcation manager it says 'Application list partially refreshed. Some catalogues unavailable'. In the application manager log I see : 407 proxy authentication required. | 08:57 |
| Manjiri | Viliny I chked out the link. Doent work for MAEMO5 | 08:58 |
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| Corsac | hmhm, no fun, I'm stuck in the applications menu ¬¬ | 09:01 |
| Corsac | 1083 969 user R 12128 4.9 97.5 /usr/bin/hildon-desktop | 09:02 |
| Corsac | hhmh | 09:02 |
| Corsac | at least it's not dead | 09:02 |
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| tekojo | Morning | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | morning tekojo | 09:09 |
| tekojo | Back from coffee Stskeeps :P | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | slowly waking up, kitchen isn't far away | 09:10 |
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| mece | mornin | 09:10 |
| Manjiri | How does one set proxy user name password for hildon application manager? | 09:11 |
| Stskeeps | Manjiri: did you set it up in the internet connections? | 09:11 |
| Manjiri | Stskeeps: I set the proxy server details in the internet conn | 09:11 |
| MiXu- | I suppose there is no gui way of doing it. | 09:11 |
| Manjiri | Command-line? | 09:12 |
| Manjiri | MiXu: is there a file I can edit to set this | 09:12 |
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| Stskeeps | Manjiri: if HAM doesn't support it , it's a bug | 09:12 |
| Manjiri | I need to install rootsh to get root access in order to install apps I am developing. | 09:13 |
| MiXu- | Manjiri: I don't know | 09:13 |
| * tekojo goes for that coffee | 09:13 | |
| Manjiri | MiXu: Thanks anyway | 09:13 |
| MiXu- | You can't take the device to a network that doesn't require proxy username? | 09:14 |
| MiXu- | That would seem like an easy solution to me | 09:14 |
| Manjiri | MiXu: You are right. I have a 24X7 free broadband access that uses the proxy. I wanted to be sure that this will not work before I pay for a connection that doesnt use proxy | 09:15 |
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| MiXu- | I guess proxies that require authentication are quite rare. I've never had to use a username/password for a proxy. | 09:17 |
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| TigerTael | One thing which kinda annoys me, is that I'm merging contacts on my N900 but whenever I was SyncEvolution to sync to my google contacts, the merged information isn't updated there. I'm aware that that's probably intentional, but I'd like an option to properly merge contacts. | 10:09 |
| SafPlusPlus | Ah... the headaches of linking contact systems... | 10:12 |
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| * RST38h asks the Tentacled One to own the Gods of Internet | 10:16 | |
| m0sand | Hi, I'm wondering if anyone else has issues with the media player's shuffling on the N900? It seems it shuffles once and then follows the same pattern. At least that's what I've experienced with a small set of songs (25-50). | 10:16 |
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| * achipa_nettop asks the gods of SNAFU (or X-Fade) to take a look at deplib stuff | 10:17 | |
| RST38h | Given that his symbols stuff does not even work under sb2... | 10:18 |
| achipa_nettop | as in, how can http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/flashlauncher/0.1-maemo0/ depend on three different versions of Qt... | 10:18 |
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| petteri | m0sand: it is known bug. Should be fixed in PR1.2 :P https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7133 | 10:19 |
| povbot | Bug 7133: Shuffle all songs often plays a non-random sequence after the first song | 10:19 |
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| m0sand | Ok thanks! | 10:20 |
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| mece | oh my.. MyPaint just blew my mind. That is a sweet sweet application. In fact I think it's the sweetest app I have on my N900. | 10:27 |
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| pupnik | nice to read that, mece | 10:32 |
| pupnik | any progress on ui? | 10:33 |
| pupnik | i notice none of my improvements were used | 10:33 |
| mece | what where those? I just installed it the first time, and it turned out to be awesome. | 10:33 |
| mece | pupink, no finger scrolling in brush list. | 10:33 |
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| TigerTael | Okay guys, I need some sort of software that can import directories of .vcf's, some sort of auto-merge, and then re-export them to .vcf's in a folder. ;P | 10:39 |
| TigerTael | I guess I could just merge all of them into one big VCF? | 10:41 |
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| pupnik | what is a vcf | 10:42 |
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| pupnik | mece... bind all useful stuff to keyboard keys | 10:42 |
| pupnik | http://pupnik.de/mypaint_cmds1sm.jpg | 10:43 |
| mece | have you linked that in the thread? | 10:43 |
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| pupnik | it is linked on a t.m.o thread | 10:45 |
| mece | ok.. the Mypaint-0.7.1 for fremantle one? | 10:45 |
| mece | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41807 | 10:45 |
| mece | I didn't read the whole thing. | 10:45 |
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| pupnik | will add thanks | 10:46 |
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| * RST38h is testing a Symbian package on S60e3 | 10:48 | |
| RST38h | So damn slow... But yes, the phone spent a *week* on and the battery gauge is down 1 (one) bar. | 10:49 |
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| pupnik | what model? | 10:49 |
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| asj | I'm guessing an n95? | 10:49 |
| RST38h | E70 | 10:50 |
| RST38h | N95 is just an overhyped ugly brick | 10:50 |
| asj | lol | 10:50 |
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| pupnik | e70 is sexy | 10:51 |
| RST38h | yep, the best form factor Nokia ever produced | 10:51 |
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| RST38h | ok, creating a case for THAT has been somewhat problematic, but otherwise... | 10:52 |
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| pupnik | i agree now... as a phone it rules. but i prefer a tablet / porftrait for two-thumb action | 10:52 |
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| jacekowski | RST38h: n95 is the best symbian phone | 10:52 |
| RST38h | pupnik: not that they couldn't combine the two... | 10:53 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: yea. right. | 10:53 |
| asj | I think you could made the case for the E90 | 10:53 |
| Surfa | let's argue about subjective views :) | 10:53 |
| RST38h | E90 is nice | 10:54 |
| Surfa | sounds so much fun | 10:54 |
| asj | what other phone can you use to protect yourself from a police night stick? | 10:54 |
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| RST38h | looks like a hidden gun holster when you are carrying it in your jacket, but cool otherwise | 10:54 |
| Surfa | nokia 1610 | 10:54 |
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| pupnik | i would sell body parts for an updated maemo/meego clamshell phone similar to, but smaller than E90, with n900-sized keys in 5 rows | 10:57 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: I heard Chinese will buy some body parts | 11:03 |
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| Khertan_Home | Hi ! | 11:15 |
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| lbt | moin | 11:18 |
| lbt | hi Khertan_Home.... | 11:18 |
| Khertan_Home | hi lbt | 11:18 |
| lbt | Khertan_Home: were you unhappy with the maemo Extras QA process? | 11:18 |
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| Khertan_Home | lbt, yes i didn't like it | 11:19 |
| Khertan_Home | why ? | 11:19 |
| lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Application_QA_Process#Individual_Homes_and_PPAs | 11:19 |
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| lbt | I'm working through how this will appear when we deploy an OBS for Fremantle/harmattan and meego | 11:20 |
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| Khertan_Home | lbt, hum ... interesting ... | 11:22 |
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| lbt | *nod* | 11:23 |
| lbt | did you see my post on planet? | 11:23 |
| X-Fade | Does not fix Khertan's issue. | 11:23 |
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| lbt | X-Fade: doesn't it? | 11:23 |
| X-Fade | No, | 11:23 |
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| Khertan_Home | Why ? | 11:23 |
| RST38h | Ok, whoever is interested, the Symbian version of Speccy is up | 11:23 |
| X-Fade | He wanted to have his app available for everybody, but without QA. | 11:23 |
| X-Fade | That is never going to happen. | 11:24 |
| X-Fade | Sure, you can have your own repo, but that is what he has now. | 11:24 |
| RST38h | Hey, X-Fade, could you solve my issue? :) | 11:24 |
| lbt | I think it's in between X-Fade | 11:24 |
| Khertan_Home | X-Fade, the problem is n't the QA ... but the actual QA ... | 11:24 |
| lbt | it's on the same infra which means it's reliable insofar as it won't vanish | 11:24 |
| Khertan_Home | and a PPA ... is nice | 11:24 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Your super duper symbols package only works with Squeeze tools and Squeeze tools are not available for SB2 | 11:25 |
| X-Fade | lbt: He still needs to push to extras, if he wants to have the big audience. | 11:25 |
| Khertan_Home | it s package builded from source | 11:25 |
| lbt | fully agree | 11:25 |
| Khertan_Home | X-Fade, i forgot this idea :) | 11:25 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: SB2 uses host tools, rght? | 11:25 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: nOpe. | 11:25 |
| RST38h | It did once, but not for a long time =( | 11:25 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Well, SB2 is kind of deprecated it seems. | 11:25 |
| RST38h | BTW, could someone tell me why not being in Extras means less audience? | 11:26 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Isn't SB2 what Nokia is planning to replace SB1 with? | 11:26 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: End users don't add repos. | 11:26 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Doesn't look like it. | 11:26 |
| lbt | Extras is at least on the device by default | 11:26 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: But they do not have to, they just need to click on the Install thing on his page, righr? | 11:26 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: SB is dead in MeeGo anyway. | 11:27 |
| Shapeshifter | private repositories are a bother | 11:27 |
| lbt | tbd | 11:27 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Well, there seems to be SB2 development going on at Nokia, people respondign to emails etc | 11:27 |
| lbt | I personally don't think PPAs should be a mass-deployment thing | 11:27 |
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| Khertan_Home | RST38h, this is the reallity ... everyone doesn't add external repository, some reading talk didn't do it due to many warning available everywhere | 11:27 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Yes, but how would they ever find that .install ;) | 11:27 |
| lbt | I would like them to support a much quicker cycle time | 11:27 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Web search? TMO announcement? Planet Maemo post? | 11:27 |
| Khertan_Home | X-Fade, on maemo.org | 11:28 |
| lbt | with dedicated followers of an application able to subscribe | 11:28 |
| Khertan_Home | X-Fade, on maemo.org/downloads/ | 11:28 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: 1% of all users, will probably do that yes. | 11:28 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: I mean, any of these are better than finding your package in a slow-scrolling list of 100+ packages in App Manager | 11:28 |
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| Khertan_Home | X-Fade, exactly ... but i ll say from my stats 2% :) | 11:28 |
| lbt | Anyhow...... | 11:28 |
| lbt | we have the facility to offer something like that | 11:28 |
| RST38h | Khertan: You should market the same way people always marketed their shareware | 11:29 |
| lbt | although I'm getting to the point where I need help making the OBS chroot work | 11:29 |
| X-Fade | lbt: I think the 'home' builds have more value as they are linked to the actual repo they can be added to. | 11:29 |
| RST38h | Khertan: Make a web page with a huge install link. Regularly announce at t.m.o and ask bloggers say a word for you in their blogs | 11:29 |
| X-Fade | lbt: And will never get out of date because they can follow updates in the 'parent' repo. | 11:29 |
| lbt | yep... and someone can fork them | 11:30 |
| lbt | no namespace issues | 11:30 |
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| RST38h | Khertan: This is no different from the way it has always been done. I am not sure where the current app store fixation is coming from | 11:30 |
| * lbt has json-glib building BTW | 11:30 | |
| lbt | almost | 11:30 |
| lbt | which is the build-dep for conboy | 11:30 |
| Khertan_Home | RST38h, it ll never come to fremantle ... | 11:30 |
| lbt | \o/ | 11:30 |
| RST38h | Khertan: what will never come? | 11:30 |
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| X-Fade | It seems we need to fix mimetypes on the FE, downloads are being served up with weird mime. | 11:31 |
| Khertan_Home | RST38h, ovi store for selling paid apps | 11:31 |
| X-Fade | lbt: ^^ | 11:31 |
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| lbt | yes... have you seen http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Fremantle_Setup | 11:31 |
| X-Fade | lbt: No, I saw it in the FE overview though. | 11:32 |
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| lbt | so right now I'm having problems making fakeroot-tcp work in chroot | 11:33 |
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| lbt | also mount --bind doesn't work in qemu | 11:33 |
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| lbt | so I'm adapting base-files to do better tests | 11:33 |
| X-Fade | lbt: Latest qemu? | 11:33 |
| lbt | http://gitorious.org/m-obs/base-files | 11:33 |
| lbt | it's the suse-special qemu | 11:33 |
| lbt | they're pretty much upstrea, | 11:34 |
| lbt | m | 11:34 |
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| TigerTael | Where are the contacts stored on the N900? SQL/XML/? | 11:34 |
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| X-Fade | lbt: Ok, just though we could ask Riku perhaps. | 11:35 |
| Corsac | TigerTael: sqlite | 11:35 |
| lbt | X-Fade: *nod* | 11:36 |
| TigerTael | Corsac, does that include IM contact details? | 11:36 |
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| Corsac | I think so, not sure | 11:36 |
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| RST38h | Khertan: Screw Ovi Store | 11:37 |
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| RST38h | Khertan: I have been selling through eSellerate for years, and it worked | 11:37 |
| RST38h | Khertan: All this talk about Ovi Store sounds like some kind of anal fixation to me | 11:37 |
| Corsac | don't you like anal fixation? | 11:38 |
| Corsac | (you don't have to answer that) | 11:38 |
| RST38h | Corsac: no, I find it unnatural | 11:38 |
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| RST38h | Khertan: People honestly think that Ovi is the *only* way for them to sell their stuff | 11:38 |
| RST38h | Khertan: In spite of Ovi being rather broken, requiring high fees, corporate insurance, and allowing everyone to just steal paid content right from the repos | 11:39 |
| lbt | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IT_%28South_Park;_The_Entity%29.jpeg | 11:39 |
| alterego | It's not at all when you're a developer like the majority here :P | 11:39 |
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| Khertan_Home | RST38h, it s more a Visibility Fixation | 11:42 |
| Khertan_Home | RST38h, no one care test things in non-free maemo repository | 11:42 |
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| RST38h | Khertan: my stuff gets tested | 11:42 |
| RST38h | Khertan: not without some coaxing though | 11:42 |
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| Khertan_Home | RST38h, i ve lost any hope | 11:43 |
| RST38h | But yes, this "testing" requirement for Extras has become mostly a political hurdle | 11:43 |
| achipa_nettop | ~poke X-Fade | 11:43 |
| RST38h | It no longer has anything to do with actually testing apps | 11:43 |
| Khertan_Home | RST38h, i 'm now doing things for myself | 11:43 |
| X-Fade | achipa_nettop: here | 11:43 |
| Khertan_Home | if it s usefull for other ... i said ... add my repository to your app manager ... | 11:44 |
| achipa_nettop | X-Fade: is the shlibs thingie supposed to work with Qt libs ? | 11:44 |
| Khertan_Home | RST38h, and if noone is happy with that ... i answer : do it yourself | 11:44 |
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| achipa_nettop | X-Fade: see http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/flashlauncher/0.1-maemo0/ | 11:44 |
| achipa_nettop | it managed to depend on 3 different versions of Qt | 11:44 |
| alterego | Noice | 11:45 |
| pupnik | qt libs are a mess for me too achipa_nettop | 11:45 |
| Khertan_Home | RST38h, anyway i didn't care anymore of trying to made my apps available on extras ... | 11:45 |
| pupnik | phototranslate wont run here | 11:45 |
| X-Fade | achipa_nettop: Yes, and this is bad why? | 11:45 |
| Khertan_Home | RST38h, i ve made my own repository ... source published on gitorius ... and bugtracker is on khertan.net/flyspray | 11:45 |
| X-Fade | achipa_nettop: They are all >= | 11:45 |
| achipa_nettop | X-Fade: plus, I’m not sure why libqt4-gui (>= 4.5.3~git20090723-0maemo6+0m5) is a missing dependency - that is the one in PR1.1 | 11:46 |
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| Khertan_Home | RST38h, and as many claim : it s haven't destroy the maemo community | 11:46 |
| X-Fade | achipa_nettop: Firmware in the interface is PR1.0 | 11:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | 'interface'? | 11:47 |
| achipa_nettop | X-Fade: it is inherently wrong to mix qt versions, especially since in Maemo we’re not binary compatible | 11:47 |
| X-Fade | Packages interface views from a PR1.0 pov. | 11:47 |
| X-Fade | achipa_nettop: It doesn't mix. | 11:48 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: why not update it to 1.1.1? | 11:48 |
| X-Fade | achipa_nettop: It just says that it needs at least that version. | 11:48 |
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| X-Fade | achipa_nettop: In practice this will give you only one version anyway. | 11:48 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Because not all devices can run PR1.1.1 | 11:48 |
| achipa_nettop | X-Fade: but it’s the wrong version. My app compiles against PR1.0 just fine. | 11:49 |
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| achipa_nettop | (yes, PR1.1 has cool fixes, but they should be API/API compatible) | 11:49 |
| X-Fade | achipa_nettop: You must be using a symbol which is only in a newer version? | 11:49 |
| jacekowski | i doubt these are compatible | 11:50 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: What devices cannot run PR1.1.1? | 11:50 |
| jacekowski | on linux most update break at least ABI | 11:50 |
| achipa_nettop | achipa_nettop: negative. PR1.1 Qt and PR1.0 Qt are binary compatible, it’s the same API. | 11:50 |
| jacekowski | and in 90% cases api | 11:50 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Onces from providers which don't offer PR1.1 | 11:50 |
| X-Fade | *ones | 11:50 |
| RST38h | Do these actually exist? Who are they? | 11:51 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Search tmo | 11:51 |
| achipa_nettop | X-Fade: also, the 4.6 dep is bogus. I compile against 4.5 on my scratchbox. | 11:51 |
| X-Fade | achipa_nettop: This is all because they messed with Qt. | 11:52 |
| achipa_nettop | X-Fade: I know | 11:52 |
| X-Fade | achipa_nettop: I really feel this is a WONTFIX until PR1.2 is out ;) | 11:52 |
| Corsac | just do it in GTK+ :p | 11:52 |
| achipa_nettop | Corsac: GTK+ is a big wontfix in itself ;) | 11:52 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Will this continue even after 1.2 is release? | 11:52 |
| RST38h | released | 11:52 |
| Khertan_Home | achipa_nettop, but gtk+ works on maemo | 11:53 |
| X-Fade | achipa_nettop: Qt is not to be used until PR1.2, that is how I feel about it. | 11:53 |
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| achipa_nettop | X-Fade: don’t worry, they’ll break it again, so you’ll feel the same about PR1.3 :) :( | 11:53 |
| X-Fade | After PR1.2 release, we can opt to remove the Qt symbols file. So it only builds against the current sdk. | 11:53 |
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| * RST38h feels something fishy about this whole process | 11:54 | |
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| achipa_nettop | X-Fade: okay, so for now I’ll force 4.5 PR1.0 deps and hope for the best... | 11:55 |
| X-Fade | achipa_nettop: I think that is the best solution, yes. | 11:55 |
| achipa_nettop | Khertan_Home: I tried, I really did, but I never grew to like it. Plus, for some reason, it was a pain to develop simultaneously for Diablo and Fremantle | 11:56 |
| Khertan_Home | achipa_nettop, just a matter of preferences, as i found it s a pain to use qt for diablo and fremantle, but i ve not problem with gtk/hildon | 11:57 |
| Khertan_Home | :) | 11:57 |
| Khertan_Home | but i didn't know well qt while i know better the gtk framework | 11:58 |
| achipa_nettop | Khertan_Home: yes, I agree there is huge chunk of preference | 11:59 |
| TomaszD | just got an e-mail back from mapmytracks, once they are done with iphone and android version they will develop an app for the n900 | 12:04 |
| TomaszD | :) | 12:04 |
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| rcg-work | X-Fade: ping | 12:09 |
| X-Fade | rcg-work: pong | 12:09 |
| rcg-work | ah great :) | 12:09 |
| pupnik | holy cow. drawn with default sketch app ??? http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4040/4575218668_a58db2867c_o.png | 12:10 |
| rcg-work | X-Fade: i had some problem with importing packages using the autobuilder .. the problem is: i uploaded some packages with apparently wrong bugtracker links etc. .. then i fixed these and reuploaded .. but maemo.org/packages/ still shows the old values | 12:11 |
| X-Fade | rcg-work: which package? | 12:11 |
| rcg-work | X-Fade: i double checked the control file and it has the correct values | 12:11 |
| rcg-work | X-Fade: icedtea6, ant, and libjline | 12:12 |
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| X-Fade | rcg-work: Maybe it has something to do with your description, that doesn't look sane. | 12:16 |
| rcg-work | X-Fade: ah ok, any hint on how to correct this? | 12:18 |
| X-Fade | rcg-work: empty line in description should be <space><dot> | 12:18 |
| X-Fade | rcg-work: You seem to be using underscores. | 12:18 |
| rcg-work | X-Fade: ok, thanks! i'll try this | 12:18 |
| rcg-work | yes thats what i did | 12:19 |
| X-Fade | rcg-work: the bugtracker line itself looks ok, I guess that the parser just bails out before reaching it. | 12:19 |
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| phellarv | icedtea to N900. Nice. | 12:24 |
| phellarv | rcg-work: Does it include browser plugin and webstart? | 12:25 |
| rcg-work | X-Fade: i just checked, ant and libjline do not have empty lines in the description | 12:25 |
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| X-Fade | rcg-work: only checked icedtea, let me check the other ones. | 12:26 |
| rcg-work | phellarv: it has javaws .. not sure about the browser plugin | 12:26 |
| wall[e] | uggggg | 12:27 |
| wall[e] | firmware download keeps stop at 100m | 12:27 |
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| wall[e] | i don't know what to do | 12:28 |
| wall[e] | f nokia | 12:28 |
| MohammadAG | ... | 12:29 |
| Surfa | wall[e], wait couple of hours and try again | 12:29 |
| wall[e] | several times, i tried | 12:29 |
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| wall[e] | and it keeps stopping at 100m | 12:29 |
| wall[e] | and it doesn't allow continue download | 12:29 |
| Surfa | make sure you don't have any non-connectivity repositories in app manager | 12:29 |
| Surfa | it may cause that kind of behavior | 12:30 |
| MohammadAG | what does that have to do with it... | 12:30 |
| mece | wall[e], did you wait a couple of hours several times? | 12:30 |
| wall[e] | this is firmware download | 12:30 |
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| wall[e] | mece, yes | 12:30 |
| Surfa | wall[e], it has everything to do with it, trust me | 12:30 |
| mece | wall[e], which one are you trying to dl? | 12:30 |
| MohammadAG | Surfa, it has nothing to do with it | 12:31 |
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| wall[e] | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 12:31 |
| rcg-work | phellarv: it's the version from http://camswl.com | 12:31 |
| wall[e] | that one | 12:31 |
| Surfa | MohammadAG, sure it does, i can produce situation like that simply by enabling one repo that doesn't answer, some applications download partly and then stop | 12:31 |
| wall[e] | i download this on PC | 12:32 |
| wall[e] | it has nothing to do with repo | 12:32 |
| MohammadAG | Surfa, ... | 12:32 |
| MohammadAG | read what he said | 12:32 |
| sivang | re all | 12:32 |
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| Surfa | MohammadAG, quickly checking backlog didn't give me any hits on that, but now i see the point.. that you could also give and not just give arbitrary "nothing to do with" comments | 12:33 |
| frals | timeless_mbp: noted! | 12:33 |
| MohammadAG | ... | 12:33 |
| Surfa | wall[e], weird anyhow | 12:33 |
| wall[e] | did they have imie built in in each download ? | 12:33 |
| MohammadAG | nope | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 12:34 |
| MohammadAG | it's only a cookie | 12:34 |
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| Surfa | wall[e], you sure did try download on another pc? | 12:35 |
| Surfa | ..or browser.. | 12:35 |
| wall[e] | on another pc | 12:35 |
| wall[e] | not from the n900 | 12:35 |
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| Surfa | well, it shouldn't make any difference then | 12:35 |
| Surfa | i've seen some browser related download issues like that | 12:36 |
| Surfa | but don't know for sure of course | 12:36 |
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| wall[e] | ok | 12:37 |
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| Surfa | sure highly regulated network could cause that too.. but i kind of doubt it's nokia-end problem, which it may of course be :) | 12:38 |
| frals | bah, so annoying browser registers taps when screen is blanked | 12:38 |
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| mece | can someone point me towards a 24" WQXGA monitor? | 12:38 |
| dneary | Jaffa, Ping? | 12:39 |
| Khertan_Home | i ve same problem downloading image from tablet-dev | 12:39 |
| Corsac | mece: google? | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | froogle? | 12:39 |
| Khertan_Home | seem to be cached | 12:39 |
| wall[e] | it won't have a problem if they provide a proper downloading service | 12:40 |
| wall[e] | like ftp, with one time passwd whatever | 12:40 |
| Khertan_Home | as i didn't got this problem using a proxy from a other country | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | wall[e]: what country are you in? | 12:40 |
| wall[e] | timeless_mbp, thailand | 12:41 |
| mece | Corsac, google is not being helpful | 12:41 |
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| mece | Corsac, they keep throwing 30" at me | 12:41 |
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| TomaszD | there are no 24'' WQXGA monitors | 12:41 |
| mece | why the hell not?!?! | 12:41 |
| mece | grr | 12:42 |
| MohammadAG | it's a conspiracy | 12:42 |
| TomaszD | there is a 27'' Dell | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | wall[e]: i had no problem downloading it | 12:42 |
| mece | it's annoying, that's what it is. | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | it's possible thailand is not an allowed country | 12:42 |
| *** sar3th|away is now known as sar3th | 12:42 | |
| timeless_mbp | there are countries that are blocked | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | e.g. Iran | 12:42 |
| MohammadAG | or the akaimi server's down? | 12:42 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, why? | 12:42 |
| Corsac | embargo | 12:42 |
| mece | right. politics. *sigh* | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: it's up. i'm using it | 12:43 |
| TomaszD | mece, look at the NEC PA271W or Dell U2711 | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: akamai is not the kind of thing that generally goes down | 12:43 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: But then you get a 401 or something like that. | 12:43 |
| wall[e] | timeless_mbp, it is allowed, just it keep stopping at 100mb, but that doesn't matter, they should just allow thing for something like wget -c | 12:43 |
| TomaszD | there is currently nothing smaller with that res mece | 12:43 |
| mece | wow, that's embarrassing. | 12:43 |
| MohammadAG | you should be able to do that | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | wall[e]: iirc you're cookied | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | just steal the cookie and feed it to wget/curl | 12:44 |
| mece | my phone and my 8 year old laptop has better resolution than the latest monitors. | 12:44 |
| MohammadAG | you need the cookie downloaded using wget | 12:44 |
| MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, beat me to it | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | stealing cookies is trivial. javascript:document.cookie | 12:44 |
| wall[e] | well.. i used to do that... let me see | 12:44 |
| Corsac | mece: your phone has better resolution than latest monitors? | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | wall[e]: i have 102mb and going | 12:45 |
| dneary | Jaffa, We should probably announce date & time for this meeting tomorrow | 12:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | at what point do you want me to stop? | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | 120mb... | 12:45 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 12:45 |
| mece | Corsac, well yeah... 3,5 inch, 800x600. translate that to 24" | 12:45 |
| mece | err480 that is | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | if it's breaking somewhere in the middle, it sounds more like a network connectivity problem on your side | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, i have the entire file | 12:45 |
| wall[e] | good! | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | what the heck would i do w/ it? | 12:45 |
| * timeless_mbp trashes it | 12:45 | |
| MohammadAG | pingtest.net for drpped packets | 12:45 |
| mece | Corsac, 1600x1200 on 15" | 12:45 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 12:45 |
| Corsac | mece: ha, better DPI | 12:46 |
| Corsac | mece: the term resolution if often confusing since usually it's used for pixel dimensions :/ | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | wall[e]: fwiw, it isn't a onetime use token, it's more of a time limited token | 12:47 |
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| wall[e] | ok | 12:48 |
| mece | Corsac, well dpi then. | 12:48 |
| wall[e] | working on cookies method | 12:48 |
| wall[e] | since i already have 100m | 12:48 |
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| mece | Corsac, I don't want to downgrade. My old 17" crt had better resolution than my current 20".. it's tragic. | 12:49 |
| slonopotamus | ~curse autotools | 12:49 |
| * MohammadAG wonders where microb stores history files | 12:49 | |
| slonopotamus | ... infobot ? | 12:49 |
| MohammadAG | ... is dead | 12:49 |
| wall[e] | oh, i saw md5sum | 12:49 |
| wall[e] | must be blind | 12:49 |
| RST38h | OMG the Tentacled One has taken the infobot! | 12:50 |
| RST38h | BTW, someone has committed MicroEmulator into the extras. Wonder how many of those J2ME games are playable now... | 12:50 |
| MohammadAG | 1/4 | 12:50 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 12:50 |
| Corsac | purple tentacle? | 12:51 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: does it include an npapi plugin? :) | 12:51 |
| ShadowJK | what's npapi? | 12:53 |
| slonopotamus | ShadowJK, netscape plugin api, i thiink | 12:54 |
| ShadowJK | j2me isn't useful with browsers is it? | 12:54 |
| ShadowJK | don't you want j2se for that? :) | 12:54 |
| * RST38h does not want any java for that | 12:54 | |
| slonopotamus | you don't want applets at all usually :) | 12:54 |
| slonopotamus | RST38h, hehe | 12:55 |
| RST38h | especially given that java is pretty much out as an in-browser engine | 12:55 |
| RST38h | just needs a few more kicks in the gonads to become completely gone | 12:55 |
| * slonopotamus has autogen.sh running for 10 minutes already... die, die autotools! | 12:55 | |
| RST38h | why use autotools if you hate them? | 12:56 |
| wall[e] | cookie didn't help | 12:56 |
| wall[e] | wget -O RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin --no-proxy -c --load-cookies cookies.txt --referer=http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php "http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin" | 12:56 |
| slonopotamus | RST38h, that's not my project | 12:56 |
| wall[e] | something wrong with my wget? | 12:56 |
| RST38h | oh | 12:56 |
| wall[e] | 98 97 96 ... seconds | 12:57 |
| wall[e] | :-X | 12:57 |
| wall[e] | urgg | 12:59 |
| wall[e] | rapidshare doesn't work for my isp! | 12:59 |
| wall[e] | what a day! | 12:59 |
| slonopotamus | meh. it detects that it isn't building static libraries but still goes and checks if gcc/g++ -static works... | 12:59 |
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| Piotras | X-Fade, ping, Can I use any workaround for python build issue ? | 13:05 |
| X-Fade | Piotras: You should check what other packages do, nobody else seems to have issues with this? | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | wall[e]: where'd you get your cookies.txt from? | 13:07 |
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| wall[e] | javascript:document.cookie | 13:07 |
| manjiri | How do I install rootsh withput internet access? | 13:07 |
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| MohammadAG | click the deb | 13:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/using-the-cookies-sqlite-from-firefox-3-in-wget-653227/ | 13:09 |
| timeless_mbp | wall[e]: did you properly format your cookies.txt file? | 13:09 |
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| * timeless_mbp wouldn't use cookies.txt | 13:10 | |
| timeless_mbp | iirc wget supports commandline cookies | 13:10 |
| MohammadAG | it does | 13:10 |
| wall[e] | timeless, just a single line, separated with ; | 13:11 |
| wall[e] | i tried 4 lines, for all cookies, doesn't work as well | 13:11 |
| wall[e] | oh let me try | 13:11 |
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| timeless_mbp | wall[e]: that's not what cookies.txt looks like | 13:12 |
| wall[e] | ah i see | 13:13 |
| manjiri | MohammadAG: I clicked the deb, it in turn opens the app manager that show options to either uninstall, download or update..? | 13:13 |
| wall[e] | timeless, i'm going to do sqlite one | 13:13 |
| Piotras | X-Fade, how many python module packages has been built since SDK/builder update? | 13:14 |
| Piotras | X-Fade, and which ones ? :) | 13:14 |
| X-Fade | python-qt4 for instance, on 25th of april? | 13:15 |
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| wall[e] | timeless_mbp, MohammadAG working thanks! | 13:19 |
| wall[e] | just use --header "Cookie: blahblah" | 13:19 |
| wall[e] | with one line ; separated | 13:19 |
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| MohammadAG | manjiri, wait till it says install | 13:20 |
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| Piotras | X-Fade, https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/midgard-python_10.05.0-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt | 13:25 |
| wall[e] | anything like alt-tab? | 13:25 |
| manjiri | MohammadAG: I have not enabled the red-pill mode. | 13:25 |
| Piotras | X-Fade, "unrecognized option `-Qy'", do you think it's something in rules file which triggers this? | 13:26 |
| X-Fade | Piotras: Hmm, let me check. | 13:27 |
| Piotras | X-Fade, in control file: Build-Conflicts: python2.3-dev, python2.3 | 13:27 |
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| Piotras | X-Fade, if this is 'Build-Conflicts', why python2.3 headers include is appended to cflags? | 13:28 |
| manjiri | I need to install rootsh to be able to get root access. | 13:30 |
| Piotras | X-Fade, "-g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -g -O2 -g -Wall -O2" | 13:30 |
| Piotras | X-Fade, O3 or O2 ? :) | 13:30 |
| * Piotras believes builder is broken | 13:30 | |
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| X-Fade | Piotras: Does it build in a clean PR1.2 sdk ? | 13:34 |
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| * alterego wonders what the hit count is like on http://tablets-dev.nokia.con/nokia_N900.php | 13:37 | |
| alterego | s/con/com/ :D | 13:37 |
| Piotras | X-Fade, I do not know, I just upload it using extras assistant | 13:39 |
| MohammadAG_ | manjiri, red pill was disabled... | 13:39 |
| MohammadAG_ | what FW are you on? | 13:39 |
| manjiri | How do I figure that out? | 13:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | manjiri: settings -> about | 13:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | manjiri: on the device - apps menu | 13:42 |
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| manjiri | Got it: the verison is 2.2009.51-1. So this FW doesnt have Red pill. | 13:43 |
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| MohammadAG_ | manjiri, and it doesn't have App Manager installs | 13:44 |
| manjiri | MohammadAG_: FW - 2.2009.51-1 | 13:44 |
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| MohammadAG_ | update to 3.2010.02-8 then click on the deb | 13:44 |
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| manjiri | How do I update w/o internet on the device | 13:45 |
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| manjiri | proxy is blocking access to internet | 13:45 |
| MohammadAG_ | remove the proxy then | 13:45 |
| SpeedEvil | should the proxy allow http? | 13:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | Alternatively | 13:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | ~flashing | 13:46 |
| infobot | well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | See that | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | get the latest firmware file for your n900 and region, and flash it | 13:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking | 13:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | alternatively - if you can get access to a computer with the internet. | 13:47 |
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| * SpeedEvil wonders if anyone knows where his microSD-SD adaptor is. | 13:49 | |
| * SpeedEvil suspects not. | 13:49 | |
| Wolfie | SpeedEvil: it's in the same place all those lost DVI-VGA adapters go | 13:49 |
| phellarv | SpeedEvil: It ran that way ---> | 13:49 |
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| r0gcas | speedEvil can you help me i am novice | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Wolfie: I'd be surprised if I have any of those - no DVI in this house! | 13:50 |
| manjiri | SpeedEvil: I have computer with internet access | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | r0gcas: Perhaps. Do you have a problem with spreadable cheese? | 13:50 |
| wall[e] | anyone know if you can separate the 3d movie channel with any player? | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | r0gcas: Partial differentials? | 13:50 |
| wall[e] | into 2 views separately | 13:51 |
| wall[e] | so i can cross eyed watching | 13:51 |
| manjiri | My main problem is: where do I specify proxy user and password so that app manager can access internet? | 13:51 |
| r0gcas | no haha, i don't know what are you talking about but suspect you are kjoking | 13:51 |
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| manjiri | I have set server details in internet connections | 13:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | r0gcas: I am attempting to guess your question. | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | r0gcas: It may be more efficient if you state what it is, otherwise this could go on for some time. | 13:52 |
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| r0gcas | my objective is to get running a gtk_helloworld app in a nokia maemo device, the n900 | 13:52 |
| MohammadAG_ | manjiri, advanced settings? | 13:53 |
| amigadave | r0gcas: you might like http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging#A_concrete_example_-_hello | 13:53 |
| rcg-work | X-Fade: did you have a chance to look at the other two packages? | 13:54 |
| r0gcas | i have done that in scratchbox on the pc with xephire | 13:54 |
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| manjiri | Mohammad: advanced settings allows one to set just server IP etc, not username or pwd. | 13:54 |
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| X-Fade | rcg-work: No, way too fragmented at the moment. Will look at it later. | 13:54 |
| r0gcas | thanks i will look at that | 13:54 |
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| manjiri | Mohammad: browser prompts for the account details but app manager silently fails | 13:54 |
| MohammadAG_ | hmm | 13:55 |
| rcg-work | X-Fade: ok, thanks for your efforts anyway :) .. might ask you later on if i'm at home you don't mind .. | 13:55 |
| manjiri | I can see in the app manager log : 407 proxy server auth required | 13:55 |
| rcg-work | *if you don't | 13:55 |
| MohammadAG_ | no idea about that one | 13:56 |
| manjiri | :) | 13:56 |
| MohammadAG_ | try apt-get dist-upgrade? | 13:56 |
| MohammadAG_ | oh wait | 13:56 |
| MohammadAG_ | no root | 13:56 |
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| manjiri | Mohammad: I think one can set the values in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00maemo | 13:57 |
| manjiri | but as you said no root | 13:57 |
| manjiri | so no permission | 13:57 |
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| MohammadAG_ | manjiri, this might be useful, although it is very dangerous (if you tinker a lot with the bootloader) http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode | 13:57 |
| MohammadAG_ | sudo gainroot in the console can be used, without installing anything extra, to gain a root shell. | 13:57 |
| MohammadAG_ | then install rootsh and disable R&D mode | 13:58 |
| MohammadAG_ | you don't need to reflash, but you need flasher-3.5 | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there a standard place to put n900 related stuff that does not go through the packager? | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - rescue 'disk' images. | 13:58 |
| MohammadAG_ | packager? | 13:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | err - I mean - not distributed through HAM | 13:59 |
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| MohammadAG_ | don't put it in user/ and it shouldn't show up in HAM | 14:00 |
| manjiri | Mohammad: Thanks. I will try it out. Can firmware be upgraded offline: download to PC and install on N900? | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: I mean packages which are not meant to be installed in the normal manner on the n900. (as they are not n900 based) | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | man: | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | ~flashing | 14:01 |
| infobot | flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | See that | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | manjiri: keep in mind that flashing is destructive | 14:02 |
| timeless_mbp | whereas over the air isn't | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Yes, I should have mentioned that, sorry. | 14:02 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 14:02 | |
| timeless_mbp | users getting advice from random people = stupid | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Flashing will wipe a few settings - though it preserves most user data for normal users. | 14:02 |
| manjiri | Thanks timeless_mbp n SpeedEvil | 14:02 |
| timeless_mbp | you could be giving him a virus or stealing his credit card | 14:02 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: wtf? | 14:03 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: this is IRC, the whole point is peer review and trust | 14:03 |
| MohammadAG_ | crashanddie, coffee shortage | 14:03 |
| alterego | timeless_mbp: don't tell him the maaaaaster plan! | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I could? Cool! | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | manjiri: Can you PM me your CC details too. | 14:03 |
| * SpeedEvil diddn't know this was allowed in the channel. | 14:03 | |
| crashanddie | OMFG LOL manjiri type rm -rf / in the console for pr0n lols | 14:03 |
| manjiri | :) | 14:03 |
| MohammadAG_ | err don't do that lol | 14:03 |
| alterego | Hahah | 14:03 |
| alterego | No, really don't do that .. | 14:04 |
| r0gcas | i have a question please: the only way to get a gtk_helloworld app running on a nokia-maemo device is through a packaging process, isn't there a more simple and straight for way to do that? | 14:04 |
| MohammadAG_ | rm -rf /* for better pr0n, crashanddie's method sucks | 14:04 |
| MohammadAG_ | <alterego> No, really don't do that .. ^ applies for that too :P | 14:04 |
| crashanddie | r0gcas: copy the binaries to the device, execute | 14:04 |
| alterego | I remember watching a psychology documentary about how when you tell someone not to do something, they will, inevitably do it. | 14:04 |
| * lcuk2 sees if it works | 14:05 | |
| lcuk2 | don't kick alterego | 14:05 |
| alterego | And even though I've known what rm -rf * does, for a long time, I have executed that command in rather annoying locations on my filesystem. | 14:05 |
| r0gcas | crashhanddie i tried that but dosen't work dfor me | 14:05 |
| crashanddie | alterego: yeah, don't tell your kids "Don't eat the lovely red fruits from that tree, it will burn very badly" | 14:05 |
| MohammadAG_ | <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: I mean packages which are not meant to be installed in the normal manner on the n900. (as they are not n900 based) | 14:05 |
| MohammadAG_ | not following tbh | 14:05 |
| MohammadAG_ | and ffs | 14:05 |
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| alterego | Heh | 14:05 |
| MohammadAG_ | I didn't see his message till now | 14:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: sorry - n900 related packages that are meant to be installed on other devices. For example, 'rescue disk' mmc images. | 14:06 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: SD images | 14:06 |
| MohammadAG | define other devices | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Other than the n900. | 14:07 |
| alterego | Cool, new nokia phones (not N900) do encryption? | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | nvm - I need to get this working first | 14:07 |
| alterego | I wonder what the technique is, would be good to port that functionality to maemo. | 14:08 |
| alterego | (encrypted SD cards that is ...) | 14:08 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: There is a n900 hw crypto driver going to the kernel now | 14:08 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: officially? | 14:09 |
| crashanddie | alterego: I have hardware encryption on my N900 :) | 14:09 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org/msg04318.html | 14:09 |
| SpeedEvil | and related | 14:10 |
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| alterego | Oh, nice. | 14:11 |
| alterego | Wonder if Nokia will pick that yp. | 14:11 |
| alterego | ~up | 14:11 |
| infobot | it has been said that up is the opposite of down | 14:11 |
| alterego | O_O | 14:11 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: Look at the author | 14:11 |
| alterego | Hah, neat, never heard of Dmitri before :) | 14:12 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: OMG It's a commie! | 14:12 |
| r0gcas | i think it lacks in the setting up environment guide a testting gtk_helloworld app in nokia-maemo device part | 14:12 |
| crashanddie | alterego: he's head of SW engineering at Nokia | 14:12 |
| achipa | The bomb, Dimitri... | 14:13 |
| alterego | crashanddie: meego/maemo devices? Or actually head of S/W engineering at Nokia? ^.^ | 14:13 |
| crashanddie | my bad, his official title is "Principal SW Engineer" | 14:14 |
| crashanddie | so team lead | 14:14 |
| alterego | He's not even a senior s/w engineer then :P | 14:14 |
| alterego | m'kay | 14:14 |
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| alterego | http://www.aijaa.com/v.php?i=6183543.png -- I like this guys home screen | 14:15 |
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| alterego | I still wish he wouldn't put them in extras though ... | 14:16 |
| Corsac | what are the network widgets on top right? | 14:16 |
| alterego | Corsac: no idea. | 14:16 |
| alterego | Well, they're shortcuts, not widgets? | 14:16 |
| alterego | Oh wait, they _are_ widgets. | 14:17 |
| alterego | My bad | 14:17 |
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| r0gcas | please anyone knows a document where to find guidance on testting a gtk_helloworld app in the nokia-maemo device without entering on the packaging process stuff? thanks | 14:18 |
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| sECuRE | r0gcas: just copy the binary and run it? | 14:19 |
| r0gcas | it doesn't work for me put line 1:syntax error "(" unepected | 14:20 |
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| sECuRE | if you use autotools, the binary is in .libs | 14:20 |
| alterego | r0gcas: looks like you're trying to run a binary compiled for the wrong architecture. | 14:20 |
| alterego | r0gcas: are you sure you've compiled it under the ARMEL target in scratchbox? | 14:21 |
| r0gcas | yes first i compiled in x86 target but then i compiled the same source code in arm target with the same compiling instruction. i did well? | 14:22 |
| lcuk2 | make clean the build first :) | 14:23 |
| lcuk2 | and whatever other magic spells you do to get back to pristine source | 14:23 |
| sECuRE | are you using autotools or not? | 14:23 |
| r0gcas | i have to use the same source code and compiling shell instruction as under x86 target? | 14:24 |
| sECuRE | sure | 14:24 |
| alterego | Then copy the binary to your N900, and from a console: run-standalone.sh ./gtk_helloworld | 14:25 |
| alterego | Or whatever it's called. | 14:25 |
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| r0gcas | no i don't use autotools i think i use 'gcc <file> -Wall ´--cflags --libs...' something like that | 14:26 |
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| r0gcas | sECuRe i will try it but i will suspect the same lack of success. but if not i will thank it to you | 14:28 |
| RST38h | Aficionados of Facebook punch-up Mafia Wars will no longer be able to deploy pit bulls as part of their arsenal, following intervention by whale-hugging animal rights outfit PETA. | 14:30 |
| RST38h | eeeek | 14:30 |
| r0gcas | thanks too to alterego | 14:30 |
| alterego | r0gcas: np ;) | 14:31 |
| amigadave | people for the eating of tasty animals? | 14:31 |
| * RST38h wonders if using humans in place of pitbulls is ok | 14:31 | |
| lbt | heh... | 14:32 |
| * lbt watched CSI last night... people stabbed to death with sound effects, blood and autopsy.... all fine as long as there were no nipples on show and no animals were hurt. | 14:33 | |
| Corsac | alterego: seems it's “connectnow” | 14:33 |
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| alterego | Corsac: ? | 14:34 |
| TomaszD | lbt, watch The Wire and leave that csi bs behind | 14:35 |
| RST38h | A pair of nice beefy lawyers on a leash, fully suited up, muzzled to prevent poisonous saliva from sprinkling around... | 14:35 |
| RST38h | lbt: It is well known that the only tv show worth watching is the DrWho: it does not pretend to reflect reality in any shape or form =) | 14:35 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: except that the new dr who sucks donkey balls | 14:36 |
| lbt | jej | 14:36 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: he looks like a gay teen | 14:36 |
| petteri | spartacus blood and sand, that one has it all :) | 14:36 |
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| * lbt moves his keyboard a little to the right | 14:36 | |
| RST38h | crash: The last three DrWhos all looked gay. Maybe that is because they are gay? | 14:37 |
| Corsac | alterego: the widgets :) | 14:37 |
| alterego | Corsac: are, okay :) Cool | 14:37 |
| RST38h | Anyway, it does not trouble me in any way. | 14:37 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: chris eckelston and tenant definitely don't look gay | 14:37 |
| crashanddie | well, tenant maybe a bit | 14:37 |
| RST38h | crash: Why should it even matter though? | 14:38 |
| crashanddie | I dunno, I don't like the new guy | 14:38 |
| RST38h | crash: Ok, he is worse than the previous one and the one before him | 14:38 |
| RST38h | crash: But this may just mean he requires some getting used to | 14:38 |
| crashanddie | tenant was a great doctor | 14:38 |
| lcuk2 | +1 | 14:39 |
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| RST38h | we will see... | 14:39 |
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| marmoute | I'm more concerne about the emptyness of the season 5 script at the moment. | 14:41 |
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| marmoute | last episodes was pretty plot was meaning less. Previous one was a shame. | 14:42 |
| alterego | I think they've been okay. | 14:42 |
| alterego | tbh, even though Tennant is a brilliant actor, I never realy liked his Dr. | 14:43 |
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| dneary | X-Fade, Do you know who has root on wiki.maemo.org? | 14:43 |
| dneary | X-Fade, I need to get some docs imported from Jarmo | 14:43 |
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| hellu | help | 14:50 |
| hellu | nm | 14:50 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 14:50 |
| d14 | o/ | 14:50 |
| Jaffa | dneary: pong. what meeting tomorrow? | 14:50 |
| hellu | mornin' | 14:50 |
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| dneary | Jaffa, The "let's do a sprint meeting to figure out what we should be doing now" meeting | 14:50 |
| dneary | Jaffa, I proposed on talk that it be Tuesday, 15h UTC (our usual time) and no-one said they had any issues with that | 14:51 |
| sivang | what's the sprint gonna be about ? | 14:53 |
| Jaffa | dneary: I've not seen that post yet; but the involvement of the maemo.org staff in that thread has been ridiculously light. | 14:53 |
| sivang | is this about the september summit in London ? | 14:54 |
| Jaffa | sivang: What September summit in London? | 14:54 |
| sivang | Jaffa: There's gonna be something in september I think | 14:54 |
| Jaffa | sivang: There's a conference in November in Dublin, if that's what you meant ;-) | 14:54 |
| sivang | Jaffa: oh, interesting, is that the one instead of the san fran that was about to take place? | 14:54 |
| Jaffa | sivang: And there's Nokia World at some point in September (that's in London, but maemo.org involvement is usually pretty light) | 14:54 |
| Jaffa | dneary: It's not like "I'm busy" is a good excuse when people are wondering whether or not the bills are worth paying ;-/ | 14:55 |
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| sivang | Jaffa: I took it there's gonna be MeeGo invovlement in the september nokia developer' | 14:55 |
| sivang | Jaffa: summit | 14:55 |
| dneary | Jaffa, Indeed, not much response | 14:56 |
| dneary | Either on the mailing list or in the forum | 14:56 |
| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: ooh Dublin? goody, i haven't been there yet | 14:56 |
| dneary | So I think it's just "set up the meeting, see who's there" | 14:56 |
| hellu | how many maemo developers are there? | 14:56 |
| dneary | Jaffa, I thought it might be better you announcing the meeting, but I can do it | 14:56 |
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| dneary | Needs to be done now, really, if we want it in 27 hours | 14:57 |
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| RST38h | n9002? | 14:57 |
| RST38h | like iso9001? | 14:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | ./flasher-3.5 -l -k /home/user/Downloads/zImage-arm-n900 -broot=/dev/mmcblk1p0 | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | This should load the kernel specified onto the device, and boot it with the flags mentioned? | 14:58 |
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| ag0ny | Whats the required package for icq integration called ? | 15:00 |
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| Jaffa | dneary: I'm not going to have a chance before 1900 UTC tonight. | 15:01 |
| dneary | Jaffa, Are you OK with the time? | 15:02 |
| Jaffa | dneary: Send it and CC me and/or council@ | 15:02 |
| dneary | I will. | 15:02 |
| Jaffa | dneary: What was the time? 27 hours from now? | 15:02 |
| MohammadAG | <SpeedEvil> This should load the kernel specified onto the device, and boot it with the flags mentioned? | 15:03 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 15:03 |
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| MohammadAG | assuming the kernel flag is root=/dev/mmcblk1p0 | 15:03 |
| dneary | Jaffa, Yeah | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG | (why p0 btw, the first partition is p1) | 15:04 |
| dneary | 15h UTC | 15:04 |
| Jaffa | dneary: ah, ta :) | 15:04 |
| Jaffa | dneary: 1700 CET. Yup, fine with me. | 15:04 |
| * Jaffa in Stockholm today/tomorrow/Wednesday | 15:04 | |
| dneary | 1700 CEST | 15:04 |
| dneary | 1600 CET | 15:04 |
| dneary | (but since we're in CEST now, that's OK) | 15:04 |
| dneary | Oh - by the way: | 15:04 |
| slonopotamus_ | (/me never got the joke with having partitions numbered from 1) | 15:05 |
| dneary | Can everyone who has a prime minister please step forward? ;) | 15:05 |
| Jaffa | dneary: I have a prime minister. | 15:05 |
| Jaffa | Just not an elected one ;-) | 15:05 |
| sivang | Jaffa: the dublin event is going to be a maemo developer' | 15:05 |
| sivang | Jaffa: developer's summit ? | 15:05 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: what if i have no idea? | 15:06 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: yes - I worked that out - still nothing though | 15:06 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: looks like Finland has one | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: thanks | 15:07 |
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| MohammadAG | np | 15:08 |
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| r0gcas | hi, i am trying to execute a gtk_helloworld app compiled under armel target into the nokia-maemo device and i can't. what i do is to sotre the binary into MyDocs in the device and exectue it from terminal. the result is a permission denied message | 15:12 |
| adeus | don't put it there, MyDocs is noexec | 15:12 |
| viliny__ | can you get powertop for the n900? | 15:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes vil | 15:13 |
| r0gcas | powertop what is it? | 15:13 |
| r0gcas | ah ,sorry | 15:13 |
| r0gcas | adeus, so i | 15:13 |
| viliny__ | SpeedEvil: is it available in some convenient location? | 15:13 |
| petteri | /sbin/powertop | 15:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | viliny__: I think ist's in tools repo | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | apt-get install powertop | 15:14 |
| r0gcas | adeus, do you know a way a can store the binary outside MyDocs? | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | r0gcas: cp | 15:15 |
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| adeus | put it to /home/user | 15:15 |
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| r0gcas | SpeedEvil and adeus, thanks, i will try it | 15:15 |
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| adeus | ..and then give it "chmod +x myapp" | 15:16 |
| adeus | if not already | 15:16 |
| Termana | SpeedEvil, Captain Planet? | 15:16 |
| Termana | Cheddar Cheese? | 15:16 |
| viliny__ | ta SpeedEvil | 15:16 |
| Termana | oh shit | 15:16 |
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| Termana | I guess Cheese doesn't start with p :P | 15:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: Parmesan does. | 15:17 |
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| r0gcas | i copied it to ~/ (that is , i suppose /home/user) and execute it and that was the message: "/usr/bin/run-standalone.sh: line 11: /home/user/gtk_helloworld-1: Permission denied"" | 15:19 |
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| r0gcas | Do you know what can i do? | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | you've chmodded it? | 15:20 |
| r0gcas | no | 15:20 |
| r0gcas | chmod +x?? | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 15:20 |
| r0gcas | and then execute? | 15:20 |
| r0gcas | i will try | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - I assume so | 15:20 |
| pupnik | 15:13 <+wli> Heh, "Greeks promise to repay loan with giant horse" | 15:20 |
| viliny__ | apt-get didn't find it SpeedEvil | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | viliny__: you have to have tools repo enabled | 15:21 |
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| viliny__ | yeah most likely SpeedEvil - i'll try to find the information | 15:21 |
| viliny__ | thanks again | 15:21 |
| r0gcas | i did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 | 15:22 |
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| r0gcas | thanks a lot guys!!! | 15:22 |
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| r0gcas | ::))))) | 15:22 |
| viliny__ | SpeedEvil: i got extra and extra devel added but can't find info about tool repo | 15:22 |
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| marsje | People, what is going on when someone using Firefox on Maemo cannot use the browse button for uploading files with http? Like to attach a file to a mail in webmail? | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37102 | 15:23 |
| r0gcas | seeyouu next bug time, and many thanks :) bye bye | 15:24 |
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| marsje | Anyone wants to try? http://datkan.net/upload/ | 15:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | moooo | 15:26 |
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| adeus | marsje: worked just fine | 15:28 |
| marsje | adeus: thanks for testing | 15:28 |
| adeus | with n900/ff | 15:28 |
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| marsje | adeus: this person has been able to upload stuff from a N900 before, but all of a sudden it stopped working... | 15:28 |
| marsje | adeus: if I understand correctly the browse button is disabled | 15:29 |
| X-Fade | marsje: Check if javascript is disabled in settings. | 15:29 |
| adeus | the page has no javascript | 15:29 |
| marsje | X-Fade: it should not require javascript... it's a simple POST-form | 15:30 |
| dneary | amigadave, ping? | 15:30 |
| amigadave | dneary: pong | 15:30 |
| viliny__ | Thanks SpeedEvil but i can't see the repo mentioned here, just a deb file so far... | 15:30 |
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| dneary | amigadave, I saw you categorising pages in the flasher docs | 15:30 |
| amigadave | dneary: let me guess, all about to get overwritten? :P | 15:31 |
| dneary | amigadave, I will be reimporting all those docs this afternoon I hope - so I'm afraid we might lose the changes :} | 15:31 |
| amigadave | heh | 15:31 |
| amigadave | alright, i will hold off for now | 15:31 |
| dneary | X-Fade, Do you have time to help me out this afternoon? | 15:31 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Depends on what it is and how long it takes ;) | 15:32 |
| dneary | I'm not too keen on writing pages live into the wiki with the docs conversion tools, but I'd like to get Jarmo's docs into wiki.maemo.org today | 15:32 |
| dneary | I would like to have root run a back-up of the wiki first, and then run the script to install the docs | 15:32 |
| dneary | I can set everything up, it should just be running the right command line | 15:32 |
| X-Fade | dneary: import it in a local wiki install and export the pages then? | 15:33 |
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| X-Fade | dneary: That is how daniel does it. | 15:33 |
| dneary | (or alternatively, if you know who has root on wiki.maemo.org...) | 15:33 |
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| lbt | dneary: can't we use some kind of git repo at the backend? | 15:33 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Has nothing to do with root, it lives in a db, right? | 15:33 |
| lbt | allowing merges? | 15:33 |
| dneary | X-Fade, I guess you didn't pay attention to the maemo-community thread last month when Jarmo gave out to me because I did that? | 15:33 |
| dneary | X-Fade, There are a collection of things - DB permissions and filesystem permissions | 15:34 |
| dneary | Images need uploading too | 15:34 |
| dneary | And backing up the wiki doesn't work for an underprivileged user like me | 15:34 |
| X-Fade | dneary: I don't trust Jarmo's tools. | 15:34 |
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| dneary | Can you say so on the list then, please, because I'm stuck between a rock & a hard place with docs to import | 15:35 |
| X-Fade | So we better make full backups yes. | 15:35 |
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| dneary | lbt, For what? The wiki? | 15:35 |
| lbt | or as part of the import process | 15:36 |
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| dneary | X-Fade, There is a back-up script that saves just pages & history | 15:36 |
| lbt | wiki-> files; new docs->files; merge files; files->wiki | 15:36 |
| dneary | That's the one I'd like to do. I did a mysqldomp before, but that has a lot more (privileged) information in there too | 15:36 |
| dneary | lbt, Ah, I see what youo're getting at | 15:37 |
| dneary | X-Fade, So - can I take a ticket & get some of your time later? | 15:37 |
| dneary | I don't want to interrupt you if you are doing something else | 15:37 |
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| X-Fade | dneary: Always doing multiple things, so don't wait for that ;) | 15:38 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Give me an hour or so, then I will look at it with you. | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~hail X-Fade | 15:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~ping | 15:40 |
| infobot | ~pong | 15:40 |
| GAN900 | infobot is one ungrateful bastard | 15:40 |
| * DocScrutinizer fetches doctor for ibot | 15:40 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~nuke busybox | 15:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~attack GAN900 | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~status | 15:41 |
| infobot | Since Fri Apr 30 19:47:02 2010, there have been 66 modifications, 474 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 290 commands. I have been awake for 9d 16h 54m 35s this session, and currently reference 0 factoids. I'm using about 41976 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 23635.28/648.19 child 0.17/0.09 | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | and currently reference 0 factoids. :-O | 15:41 |
| GAN900 | Oops | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo joerg | 15:42 |
| infobot | joerg -- created by jOERG <n=jr-N810@p5493F5D9.dip.t-dialin.net> at Thu Oct 23 12:00:02 2008 (564 days); it has been requested 23 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 11h 13m 59s ago; it has been locked by jOERG. | 15:42 |
| Khertan_Home | 395313153 octets (395 MB) copiés, 1,91903 s, 206 MB/s <<< nice usb stick | 15:42 |
| marsje | Upload problem solved: turned device off/on :-) | 15:42 |
| Khertan_Home | :) | 15:42 |
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| dneary | X-Fade, OK, see you in an hour | 15:45 |
| chem|st | crashanddie: I need more rounds! | 15:46 |
| Khertan_Home | how it s possible that dd 300Mb img on usbstick take less than 1 seconds | 15:47 |
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| X-Fade | Khertan_Home: Type 'sync' | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen timriker | 15:48 |
| infobot | timriker <~timr@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker> was last seen on IRC in channel #saygus, 2d 15h 19m 30s ago, saying: 'sorry, have to reboot. back in a bit'. | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~cough* | 15:48 |
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| Khertan_Home | X-Fade, oh ! thx ! | 15:48 |
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| MohammadAG | that's one long reboot | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: indeed | 15:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Khertan_Home: though 300MB in <1s is incredible even for mere buffer2buffer dd | 15:52 |
| Khertan_Home | yep | 15:53 |
| Khertan_Home | ) | 15:53 |
| Khertan_Home | but ... now it s syncing since 10 min :) | 15:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's actually a god sign | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | god | 15:54 |
| Khertan_Home | DocScrutinizer, not so incredible ... i use an ssd and 16Gb of ddr3 | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | gooooooood* | 15:54 |
| Khertan_Home | :) | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ahhh, ok | 15:54 |
| Khertan_Home | but the usb stick is old usb2 1go slow stick | 15:54 |
| Khertan_Home | so things seems normal | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 15:54 |
| Khertan_Home | i just thanks x-fade ... as i didn't know that was cached | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why you *always* shalt "remove safely" | 15:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw buffering probably does a great job to avoid random writes and instead do a nice sequential write, which should please the flash | 15:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, dd does few randowm writes anyway I guess | 16:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmmm, forgot the inodes | 16:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then otoh odds are this is FAT | 16:01 |
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| Khertan_Home | hum my meego img still not boot | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | Khertan_Home: just because I'm curious - what was that dd? | 16:02 |
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| Khertan_Home | DocScrutinizer, sudo dd if=/home/khertan/Bureau/meego-0.90-default-201005101239.usbimg bs=4096 of=/dev/sdb | 16:02 |
| woodong50__ | hi | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaaahyes | 16:03 |
| Khertan_Home | DocScrutinizer, ? | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | Khertan_Home: umount /dev/sdb prior to doing that | 16:03 |
| Khertan_Home | DocScrutinizer, of course :) | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | otherwise fs will bork your freash image | 16:03 |
| woodong50__ | n900 have linux ? | 16:04 |
| E0x | yes | 16:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | woodong50__: I like coffee? | 16:04 |
| woodong50__ | hehe i like beer | 16:04 |
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| woodong50__ | i am chatting on iphone | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | Khertan_Home: bs=4096 ?? o.O | 16:06 |
| Khertan_Home | yes | 16:06 |
| Khertan_Home | what the problem ? | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | Khertan_Home: not that it really matters | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | just unnecessary slow | 16:06 |
| woodong50__ | if there is a chance , i wanna use n900 | 16:07 |
| X-Fade | bs=1M :) | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | for such things I usually use bs=1M | 16:07 |
| Khertan_Home | yes ... but for obvious reason ... with 1M i always got errors | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh | 16:07 |
| Khertan_Home | (i think this is due to my stick) | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, you seen it's buffered anyway | 16:07 |
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| Khertan_Home | (and it s the cmd use by mic-creator) | 16:08 |
| woodong50__ | is it possible to make Web server on n900 | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | and if it weren't buffered I'd particularly suggest a bs>64k | 16:08 |
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| Khertan_Home | but i think that if mic creator use speciffically 4096, i think they have a good reason | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't think so, it's just the buffer size | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | of the dd internal buffer | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for machines low on RAM I'd understand a bs<100k | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | woodong50__: sure it's 'possible' | 16:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | woodong50__: though a server needs two things: fast disk reads and lots of RAM. Both not exactly the strong points of N900 | 16:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | n900 is very fast at small block reads | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, and of course a good fat network connection would help a lot | 16:16 |
| SpeedEvil | And ~10mbytes/s of read is plenty | 16:16 |
| SpeedEvil | For many servers | 16:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | c'mon Web(!) server on N900... | 16:17 |
| * DocScrutinizer muses about netto diskread while N900 starts heavy swapping | 16:18 | |
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| ZogG | HEY | 16:18 |
| alterego | What if you used the N900 to serve HTTP froma mounted NFS store accessed over 3G | 16:19 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, who is the owner of this chan and maemo.org in the first place? and why admins and mods not here(or at least here but you never know who they are) | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd say there are devices a tenth the price, which do a somewhat better job on webserver | 16:19 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 16:20 | |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: sure | 16:20 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 16:20 | |
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| ZogG | DocScrutinizer yeah - that i know - that's why i asked you | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | /msg chanserv access #maemo list | 16:20 |
| ZogG | is tehre any connection between talk.maemo and irc? | 16:20 |
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| ZogG | thanx | 16:21 |
| * Khertan_Home didn't understand the question | 16:21 | |
| kirma | DocScrutinizer: like... sheevaplug, but this one really amazed me regarding the price: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26320 ... it's 250 MHz ARM with 32 MB of RAM and ethernet+usb | 16:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml ->We strongly suggest that you avoid configuring your channel to "auto-op". Use the chanserv "op" command to obtain channel operator status only when needed. This will help to keep your channel temperature low and reduce conflicts. | 16:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: ^^^ | 16:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: (connection IRC<->tmo) no | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | ZogG: I am the Founder for this channel. | 16:24 |
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| frals | kirma: sheeva plug is twice the price and 1.2GHz and 512MB ram? :) | 16:25 |
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| * crashanddie hands chem|st more rounds | 16:29 | |
| kirma | frals: well, maybe it's twice the price *somewhere*. it's over three times the price at least to be shipped where I live. | 16:29 |
| kirma | one of those is cheap enough to be purchased on a whim, another not quite so. | 16:30 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, thanx - that makes me happy — like this http://leprastuff.ru/data/img/20100510/25a2a2c745816d57f213df152f03e719.gif | 16:30 |
| alterego | [B[B[B | 16:31 |
| BCMM | ? | 16:31 |
| ZogG | alterego no way, i don't believe you | 16:32 |
| SpeedEvil | -- | 16:32 |
| kirma | still, there are certainly radically more affordable and sensible options available for a small web server than n900. ;) | 16:32 |
| * frals pets his sheevaplug | 16:33 | |
| * SpeedEvil pets his old laptop. | 16:33 | |
| * kirma waits for his feebleplug to arrive | 16:33 | |
| * lcuk2 sheevas pet his frals | 16:35 | |
| frals | :D | 16:36 |
| * ZogG ☭ | 16:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer | sheeva plugs his pet | 16:36 |
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| BCMM | ZogG: meaningful, or just noticed that IRC does Unicode? | 16:37 |
| ZogG | sheeva sounds like 7 in hebrew =) | 16:37 |
| ZogG | BCMM, what you mean IRC does UTF-8? | 16:37 |
| ZogG | all my system is unicode =) | 16:38 |
| BCMM | ZogG: well, in my client, you just did a /me [hammer and sickle] | 16:38 |
| ZogG | BCMM, yeap - that what i wrote | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | 両 | 16:38 |
| ZogG | compose key - FTW | 16:38 |
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| ZogG | where i check compose system wide symbols? | 16:39 |
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| ZogG | haha nokia again apple again | 16:41 |
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| ZogG | patent war =) | 16:41 |
| ZogG | techcrunch.com/2010/05/07/the-legal-battle-between-apple-and-nokia-heats-up/ | 16:43 |
| * MohammadAG is thinking about being a patent lawyer | 16:43 | |
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| MohammadAG | the more infringements the better for me | 16:44 |
| alterego | pedant lawer? | 16:44 |
| pupnik | useless litigation makes us all poorer | 16:45 |
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| pupnik | read Stephan Kinsella to learn more about why | 16:45 |
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| alterego | pupnik: you think it's useless? | 16:48 |
| alterego | pupnik: if all the other manufacturers have reached an understanding with Nokia's IP why can't Apple do the same? | 16:48 |
| ZogG | alterego pedolaywer | 16:48 |
| alterego | :) | 16:48 |
| ZogG | lawyer* | 16:49 |
| ZogG | alterego it's not about understanding, it;s about slowing down companies | 16:49 |
| ZogG | i think patents are evil | 16:49 |
| ZogG | you want to be first - try to develop the best thing | 16:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | Patents are not. | 16:49 |
| alterego | I think patents are evil. | 16:49 |
| alterego | I'm just saying what Apple are doing is illegal. | 16:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Patents that are granted on a basis of rubberstamp are bad. | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | the way patents are used is completely perverted | 16:50 |
| ZogG | SpeedEvil, depend, the point of patents to defence indi developers from big companies | 16:50 |
| ZogG | but it wors other way | 16:50 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - obvious problems that have obvious solutions - but that solution hasn't been applied to the problem before because the problem is new - are evil. | 16:50 |
| SpeedEvil | For example you can patent painting metal | 16:51 |
| jacekowski | you can? | 16:51 |
| ZogG | wow | 16:51 |
| jacekowski | good idea | 16:51 |
| SpeedEvil | but you can then seperately patent painting ships made of metal | 16:51 |
| SpeedEvil | painting cars made of metal | 16:51 |
| SpeedEvil | ... | 16:51 |
| ZogG | can i patent masturbation? i would be damn rich | 16:51 |
| SpeedEvil | (well - the above example - of course not) | 16:51 |
| Mece | zogG, but how would you enforce? | 16:51 |
| ZogG | i would patent trolling | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~patent | 16:51 |
| infobot | rumour has it, patent is EVIL | 16:51 |
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| ZogG | haha | 16:52 |
| Mece | zogg, fishing? | 16:52 |
| jacekowski | patent penis shaped dildos | 16:52 |
| ZogG | ~ZogG | 16:52 |
| ZogG | =( | 16:52 |
| ZogG | ZogG is awesome guy | 16:52 |
| ZogG | ~ZogG | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ZogG is a loser | 16:52 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer | 16:52 |
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| MohammadAG | lmfao | 16:52 |
| ZogG | ahhhh =))))) | 16:52 |
| Mece | :) | 16:52 |
| MohammadAG | ~ZogG | 16:52 |
| infobot | it has been said that zogg is a loser | 16:52 |
| ZogG | it's unfair | 16:52 |
| crashanddie | ~forget ozgg | 16:52 |
| infobot | i didn't have anything called 'ozgg' to forget, crashanddie | 16:52 |
| crashanddie | ~forget zogg | 16:52 |
| MohammadAG | ~unforget ZogG | 16:52 |
| infobot | crashanddie: i forgot zogg | 16:52 |
| infobot | MohammadAG: Successfully recovered 'zogg'. Have fun now. | 16:52 |
| Mece | ~ZogG | 16:53 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 16:53 |
| infobot | i heard zogg is a loser | 16:53 |
| Mece | haaa | 16:53 |
| crashanddie | ~#maemo | 16:53 |
| MohammadAG | muhahahaha | 16:53 |
| MohammadAG | ~forget ZogG | 16:53 |
| infobot | i forgot zogg, MohammadAG | 16:53 |
| MohammadAG | ~forget ZogG | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: no, zogg is a awesome guy | 16:53 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: okay | 16:53 |
| Mece | poor infobot | 16:53 |
| ZogG | crashanddie, i'm like all these companies we talked before - you can laught at me or say anything you want - but at least i have to be popular =)))) | 16:53 |
| SpeedEvil | zogg http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=site%3Awww.freepatentsonline.com+masturbation&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= | 16:53 |
| crashanddie | ~#maemo is a channel filled with a bunch of puerile wankers | 16:53 |
| infobot | okay, crashanddie | 16:53 |
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| MohammadAG | ~#maemo | 16:53 |
| infobot | [#maemo] a channel filled with a bunch of puerile wankers | 16:53 |
| alterego | Hahah | 16:54 |
| Mece | cute | 16:54 |
| lcuk2 | http://gadgetsteria.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/implied-facepalm.jpg | 16:54 |
| frals | lol | 16:54 |
| ZogG | ~access | 16:54 |
| infobot | M$ Access is a database. No, really, a database. A real live multi-user... well, ok, not really multi-user, but a database. | 16:54 |
| ZogG | ~n900 | 16:54 |
| infobot | somebody said n900 was a wooden box with stained cans inside | 16:54 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 16:54 |
| ZogG | ~cartman | 16:54 |
| infobot | i heard cartman is eating cheesypoofs and is *not* bigboned !, or was it fat? | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~crashanddie | 16:55 |
| infobot | OMG!!! | 16:55 |
| ZogG | HAHA | 16:55 |
| * MohammadAG downgrades lcuk2 to lcuk | 16:55 | |
| alterego | Heh | 16:55 |
| ZogG | is lcuk2 cloning himself? | 16:55 |
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| MohammadAG | no, he's just an upgraded version | 16:55 |
| lcuk2 | i wish | 16:55 |
| MohammadAG | using Qt | 16:55 |
| ZogG | if i clone myself - i'll marry myself | 16:55 |
| ZogG | cause i'm the best i can get =)) | 16:56 |
| Corsac | I don't think it's authorized | 16:56 |
| lcuk2 | crashanddie, best make the #maemo definition proper before you forget | 16:56 |
| *** lcuk2 is now known as lcuk | 16:56 | |
| crashanddie | ~forget #maemo | 16:56 |
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| MohammadAG | downgraded | 16:56 |
| infobot | i forgot #maemo, crashanddie | 16:56 |
| ZogG | Corsac it is - there is some place (don't remember where) you can marry anything - even urself | 16:56 |
| ZogG | ~infobot | 16:56 |
| infobot | i heard infobot is the most helpful and smartest of all the bots | 16:56 |
| MohammadAG | I wouldn't want to do that... it's kind of weird | 16:56 |
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| lcuk | some guy married a cardboard cutout of himself | 16:57 |
| * lcuk saw that randomly over the weekend | 16:57 | |
| MohammadAG | <lcuk2> http://gadgetsteria.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/implied-facepalm.jpg | 16:57 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, think of that - that you can always understand and hang out with yourself and neverr tired of yourself, you can be a wingman for yourself =) | 16:57 |
| lcuk | whats worse is when your fake you gets more women than you | 16:57 |
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| ZogG | lcuk don't lie - we know it was you | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm always tired of myself, even without a cardboard double | 16:58 |
| Khertan_Home | Youhou ! | 16:58 |
| crashanddie | well, he won't be sprouting as many stupid crap as most of us here, so lcuk, it's actually quite probable | 16:58 |
| Khertan_Home | i ve found my nokia agreement about loaned device | 16:58 |
| * lcuk folds up this chan for now anyway | 16:58 | |
| crashanddie | lcuk: we send more self-disqualifiers out than any other species of humans | 16:58 |
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| MohammadAG | lcuk, /part seems to help | 16:58 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 16:58 |
| * Corsac folds back | 16:58 | |
| Khertan_Home | i didn't understand why noone answering me where was the adress to return it | 16:58 |
| Khertan_Home | now i 'm a bit late ! | 16:58 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_Home: PM | 16:59 |
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| MohammadAG | keep it :P | 16:59 |
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| ZogG | say what? | 16:59 |
| ZogG | send it to me | 17:00 |
| MohammadAG | it's amazing how ppl lose such important addresses and documents | 17:00 |
| ZogG | whatever it is | 17:00 |
| Khertan_Home | ok ... haven't see the address | 17:00 |
| MohammadAG | i still have my N900 box with those things amazon put to protect it | 17:00 |
| Khertan_Home | in the url | 17:00 |
| alterego | http://londonphotographers.org/2010/05/abuse-terror-laws-continues/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=social-media | 17:00 |
| * MohammadAG goes looking for his credit card | 17:00 | |
| alterego | I think his phone might have been an N900 ^.^ | 17:00 |
| Khertan_Home | MohammadAG, i ve the paper ... it s just that my wife do the paper classement | 17:00 |
| Khertan_Home | :) | 17:00 |
| MohammadAG | oh, that means it was binned long ago, even if it "wasn't her" | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | Khertan_Home: simply send it to me, I'll PM you my address ;-D | 17:01 |
| MohammadAG | Khertan_Home, don't! He wants to torture it | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 17:01 |
| MohammadAG | Dave999's "Medea Downloads PR1.2" starring drunk Laughingstok as Chuck Norris along with gerbils (4,547) <-- bah | 17:02 |
| Khertan_Home | :) | 17:02 |
| MohammadAG | think of all the packages that can be uploaded with that wasted space | 17:02 |
| Khertan_Home | currently mine is a bit tortured ... it 's running meego :) | 17:02 |
| MohammadAG | Khertan_Home, that's SW torture, a reflash will help. | 17:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'll tortue it on hw level | 17:03 |
| MohammadAG | otoh... | 17:03 |
| Khertan_Home | on what doing overclock ? | 17:03 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, will get it, laugh diabolically and cut it open | 17:03 |
| Khertan_Home | already done :) | 17:03 |
| alterego | Did anyone here actually get an N810 wimax? | 17:03 |
| MohammadAG | nope, he'll tear it inside out | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | been there, done that | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | need new ideas :-P | 17:04 |
| MohammadAG | (he'll start with the screen *hears shredding sound*) | 17:04 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, what's the tallest building in Germany? | 17:04 |
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| * DocScrutinizer shrugs | 17:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer | N900fly is a bit silly | 17:05 |
| MohammadAG | I wanted photos btw, you misunderstood | 17:05 |
| nid0 | 5 seconds on teh internets says its http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerzbank_Tower | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | FFM I guess | 17:05 |
| achipa | X-Fade: Did I break something again ? :) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/flashlauncher-experimental/0.1-maemo4/ | 17:05 |
| MohammadAG | Host mode + Javelin + building = DocScrutinizer = terrorist :P | 17:05 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG have you bought it from amazon | 17:06 |
| MohammadAG | yeah | 17:06 |
| range | nid0: Internet fail, then. The TV tower in Berlin is taller. | 17:06 |
| MohammadAG | achipa, wait it out, it takes time | 17:06 |
| alterego | frals: if I ever decided to use MMS, you'd be my god ;) | 17:06 |
| X-Fade | achipa: No, needs to be imported still. | 17:06 |
| MohammadAG | X-Fade, is there a pattern for the importer? | 17:07 |
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| alterego | On the other hand, I might just install it to have the ability to read them if/when someone sends me one | 17:07 |
| frals | alterego; thanks ;-) | 17:07 |
| ZogG | Khertan_Home why wouldn't you just give it to one of devs (like one was given to nitroid dev) | 17:07 |
| nid0 | range, no. | 17:07 |
| MohammadAG | (every 30 minutes or something) | 17:07 |
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| X-Fade | MohammadAG: Runs every 30 mins yes. | 17:07 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG but you prob payed all the extra money on post? | 17:07 |
| MohammadAG | may I ask when those 30 minutes start? | 17:07 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, you don't wanna know | 17:07 |
| frals | 38/08 is when fmms gets imported usually | 17:07 |
| MohammadAG | 530 from amazon, 20 bucks shipping, 34% taxes | 17:08 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, i bought it from someone who bought it like you | 17:08 |
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| MohammadAG | how much? | 17:08 |
| X-Fade | Starts at 5 and 35, yes. | 17:08 |
| ZogG | he bought 2 - wanted to sell prob to make extra money - so i got it cheap cause it is sold in israel also after all =) | 17:08 |
| MohammadAG | all in all mine was about 2700 | 17:08 |
| MohammadAG | not back in December it wasn't | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | X-Fade, 5:35? | 17:09 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG i bought less than 3k shekels | 17:09 |
| ZogG | 2900 i think | 17:09 |
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| ZogG | in box - new | 17:09 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG: :5 and :35 | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | oh | 17:09 |
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| MohammadAG | meaning 4 minutes ago it imported packages | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | make that 5 | 17:10 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG: No, it started then. | 17:10 |
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| MohammadAG | how long does it take? | 17:10 |
| Gaap | hi all | 17:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: 40 minutes :-P | 17:10 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG: A few minutes. | 17:10 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 17:10 |
| Gaap | i got Mer/maemo running on my archos tablet, wifi works but i can't manage it using NetworkManager, do you know where to add the interface name for it? | 17:11 |
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| MohammadAG | #mer might be of more help, but does the archos have closed wifi firmware? | 17:11 |
| MohammadAG | if so copy it from /lib/firmware on the original OS, whatever that is | 17:11 |
| Gaap | i can scan wifi using iwlist | 17:12 |
| nid0 | depends which tablet | 17:12 |
| Gaap | but can't get it working on networkmanager | 17:12 |
| Gaap | i can use wpa_supplicant too | 17:12 |
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| dneary | X-Fade, Ping? | 17:16 |
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| frals | ~ping | 17:20 |
| infobot | ~pong | 17:20 |
| X-Fade | dneary: pong | 17:20 |
| ZogG | ~pong | 17:20 |
| infobot | ~ping | 17:20 |
| Khertan_Home | ping | 17:20 |
| woodong50__ | pong | 17:21 |
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| E0x | what is a : "community OBS" ? | 17:21 |
| dneary | X-Fade, Hi :) | 17:21 |
| dneary | OK - there are a few bits & pieces to do... | 17:21 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Let's take this off channel | 17:22 |
| dneary | X-Fade, Are you on wiki.maemo.org? | 17:23 |
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| dneary | I'll need a minute or two to copy the toolchain packages over... | 17:23 |
| X-Fade | No | 17:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dneary: you're managing the wiki? | 17:24 |
| dneary | DocScrutinizer: In a manner of speaking | 17:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dneary: the CSS is crap for me sometimes, esp for editing | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/CSS/layout | 17:24 |
| dneary | DocScrutinizer: I have the means to make some changes, and I'm one of the wiki admins, but I don't have root on the machine, so changing things like CSS isn't that easy :) | 17:25 |
| MohammadAG | ~seen noobmonk3y | 17:25 |
| dneary | DocScrutinizer: You know MediaWiki allows you to specify custom CSS? | 17:25 |
| infobot | noobmonk3y <~noobmonk3@cpc2-lanc4-0-0-cust67.brig.cable.ntl.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 18h 2m 17s ago, saying: 'lol :P'. | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | I thought as much | 17:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dneary: nope | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | dneary: for editing? | 17:26 |
| dneary | DocScrutinizerYes | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, so you suggest I'll STFU and get a custom CSS for wiki.maemo.org to work with Konqueror and 1280*768 ? :-D | 17:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's annoying for me - also on 1024x768 | 17:27 |
| X-Fade | Those resolutions are so last century. | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | the 'index' on the right covering a third of the edit-box | 17:27 |
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| alterego | Urgh, this class is looking like an evil robot, can't wait until I've finished this module and refactor this horrible beast! | 17:27 |
| dneary | DocScrutinizer: Not at all | 17:28 |
| dneary | Just making you aware of that possibility | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: my laptop is of 2008 though :-P | 17:28 |
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| tale | can someone please help me with the partition table? | 17:28 |
| * SpeedEvil also has a 2007/8 laptop | 17:28 | |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: Obviously, you bought a wrong one. | 17:28 |
| SpeedEvil | tale: What is your problem? | 17:28 |
| lcuk | yeah the onl resolution that matters is 800*480 :D | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: not maemo-certified? | 17:28 |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: Mine is from 2008 too, but is 1920x1280 ;) | 17:28 |
| dneary | DocScrutinizer: Please open bugs for specific formatting issues in the Website product | 17:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 'website product'? please elaborate | 17:29 |
| dneary | DocScrutinizer: I have revisiting the CSS as a TODO item, but as I mentioned, it's not me who will be putting it in place. I have, however, documented how a MediaWiki page gets rendered, and there are pointers to the sources for all of these files, and (you guessed it) patches are most welcome :) | 17:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bugtracker? | 17:30 |
| dneary | DocScrutinizer: https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=maemo.org%20Website | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | k | 17:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dneary: thanks | 17:31 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 17:33 |
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| pupnik | alterego: there is use for some people but i think we can show that such battles are inherently wasteful to economic prosperity | 17:34 |
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| alterego | pupnik: in regards to patent suits between large companies? | 17:35 |
| alterego | Sure | 17:35 |
| pupnik | k | 17:35 |
| alterego | I'm just pro-anti-apple, anything that tarnishes their reputation is good in my books ;) | 17:35 |
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| pupnik | ok hey they aint all bad. at least the os is good | 17:36 |
| alterego | I want Nokia to win, so people can see that Apple are money theiving bitches :P | 17:36 |
| pupnik | i have a lot of respect for the way nokia plays. that is just increasing over time | 17:36 |
| pupnik | but there is this thing called the US government. ... .... | 17:37 |
| pupnik | trolololo | 17:37 |
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| alterego | Hahahah | 17:37 |
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| achipa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NPdVpx5CgE | 17:39 |
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| alterego | That's somewhat cruel ... | 17:39 |
| E0x | i find that having google talk and skype account always connected in 3g drain a lot of battery | 17:39 |
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| E0x | anybody have this kind of behavior too ? | 17:40 |
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| pupnik | E0x: it will reconnect more than having them off ... havent seen data | 17:42 |
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| E0x | pupnik: what ? | 17:42 |
| achipa | alterego: I have not decided which one causes more long term damage. What they do to the dog, or what the youtube captions of the dog do to our brains. | 17:42 |
| pupnik | are you travelling from cell to cell much E0x ? | 17:43 |
| alterego | E0x: continual 3G usage, even if it's just checking facebook will drain battery, might be worth forcing 2G until you need the extra throughput. | 17:43 |
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| E0x | pupnik: oh you mean cell tower reconection | 17:43 |
| E0x | ? | 17:43 |
| alterego | I found my battery life is considerably lowered when I have a constant 3G connection and I have accounts online .. | 17:43 |
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| TomaszD | yeah, it's no more than a few hours before the battery is flat | 17:44 |
| E0x | alterego: i find a post ( looking for it again ) that is because google and skype protocol do a lot of chat | 17:44 |
| TomaszD | I sure hope PR1.2 improves the situation | 17:44 |
| E0x | ( a lot of traffic ) | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: Unlikely. | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: Oh. Well - there are a couple of reasons. | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: The bit about 3G using a lot of power when active - little can be done about it. | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: It just does - it's not the CPU that's active. | 17:45 |
| alterego | E0x: like I said, you don't get so much of a hit on 2G, if you explicitly force 2G until you need to use the service properly. That will help substantially. | 17:45 |
| TomaszD | so the telepathy plugins cannot be optimized better? | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: Better control of external traffic may be possible | 17:45 |
| alterego | TomaszD: no. | 17:45 |
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| alterego | Well, I'll rephrase, yes, more than likely, but the improvements would be miniscule :) | 17:46 |
| felipec | tale: what exactly do you want to do? | 17:46 |
| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: The problem with many plugins is that - for example - if you connect to two IRC servers - they will - randomly send 'ping' requests - at - say - 30 second intervals. | 17:46 |
| E0x | alterego: ok | 17:46 |
| TomaszD | so the flaw is only in hardware, as in a battery hungry 3G modem and/or weak battery for purpose | 17:46 |
| E0x | thx | 17:46 |
| alterego | TomaszD: it's a mixture of everything, but the battery use is the 3G modem yes. | 17:46 |
| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: This means that you get a ping every 15 seconds on average - which will keep the modem in 'high power' mode a large fraction of the time on 3G | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption | 17:47 |
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| TomaszD | so every IM account needs to send some keep-alive packets and if we send them less often we'll get disconnected anyway, yes? | 17:47 |
| alterego | This is why I force mine to only use 2G, unless I'm actively using the connection. I might write a daemon that does an auto-switch when it detects a "high" load. | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | The device idle - apart from a 30s ping over 3g - uses the same amount of power as it does active with the screen at mid brightness. | 17:48 |
| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: yes. For some protocols at least. | 17:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: For others, it may be possible to optimise. It also may be possible to use stuff like proxies for example. | 17:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | 2G - for comparison purposes - uses one third of the power with a 30s ping | 17:49 |
| E0x | alterego: maybe a switch when you open "someapps" | 17:49 |
| E0x | like webbrowser | 17:49 |
| TigerTael | Just give me a better battery. ;P | 17:49 |
| TomaszD | so in order for this to be a really always-on-data whole day device we need to wait for better 3G modems and better battery technology | 17:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: Proxies can do a lot. | 17:50 |
| alterego | E0x: My issue is with apps that are always open ;) It wouldn't be to hard to monitor usage, and when it exceeds a point, for say a couple of seconds, it switches to 3G | 17:50 |
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| alterego | Unfortunately, that switch may affect some connections whilst in process. | 17:50 |
| E0x | yes | 17:50 |
| TomaszD | the thing is, I like 3G call quality :) | 17:50 |
| TomaszD | I don't want a compromise | 17:50 |
| alterego | TomaszD: then look at what I've been suggesting :P | 17:50 |
| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: For example - if in the above irc example - the proxy talks to the IRC servers, and only sends you a packet to keep your connection alive - say once every 5 min - or when something actually happens. And it might - for example - batch messages in channels that are not directed to you for 5 min. | 17:51 |
| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: When the screen is off | 17:51 |
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| TomaszD | SpeedEvil, I do understand the concept, but that won't work for skype, and you only need one rogue plugin to fuck up the party | 17:52 |
| E0x | SpeedEvil: that can be done at protocol level i think | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | E0x: Sure. | 17:52 |
| E0x | so a improved in the protocol can help too | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | E0x: If you write the protocol. | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | E0x: Good luck trying to get a powersaving batched IRC protocol rolled out worldwide to all servers. | 17:52 |
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| E0x | SpeedEvil: true but my idea was more | 17:53 |
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| E0x | for IM protocols | 17:53 |
| redeeman | i invented a general purpose IM/Chat protocol | 17:53 |
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| E0x | telepathy one | 17:53 |
| redeeman | designed to minimize traffic as much as possible | 17:53 |
| redeeman | and even invented a compression algorithm for it | 17:53 |
| luke-jr | ... | 17:53 |
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| luke-jr | compression = more CPU use = more power | 17:53 |
| fysa | :P | 17:53 |
| luke-jr | packet size isn't as relevant I think | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Err - wrong | 17:53 |
| redeeman | luke-jr: you're mistaken, radio time is what costs | 17:53 |
| alterego | Unfortunately, you'd probably need a driver for every IM protocol, in which case, why not just use one of those demultiplexing services that do all the IM chat and give you a unified interface... | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | redeeman: nope. | 17:54 |
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| fysa | being awake is what costs. | 17:54 |
| alterego | Also, just point your browser to the IRC log if available and hit refresh when you wanna read it :D | 17:54 |
| luke-jr | alterego: there's only one worthwhile IM protocol :) | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | redeeman: A ping - 64 bytes - over 3g - at 30s intervals - uses 136mA | 17:54 |
| fysa | so use znc | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | redeeman: A ping - 8000 bytes at 30s intervals - is not measurably different | 17:54 |
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| E0x | alterego: hmm that can be cool , a jabber account in some public server that have gateway | 17:54 |
| E0x | for other protocolo | 17:55 |
| redeeman | SpeedEvil: which seems to prove my point? | 17:55 |
| alterego | This is why I use screen :D | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | redeeman: It's within 5% certainly. | 17:55 |
| alterego | SSH is very bandwidth friendly when not in use. | 17:55 |
| redeeman | ah | 17:55 |
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| redeeman | hmm | 17:55 |
| fysa | znc + bitlbee is where it's at | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | redeeman: Over 3G - 2G is a bit better at powersaving. | 17:55 |
| redeeman | SpeedEvil: the cpu can impossibly use more when awake than 3g | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | redeeman: ? | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | redeeman: The power usage above is with the screen and the CPU idle. | 17:56 |
| alterego | The 3G modem takes more power than the CPU? | 17:56 |
| redeeman | im not sure i trust your data regarding 3g battery usage | 17:56 |
| Funnyface | 3g is better if you are to download a large file | 17:56 |
| SpeedEvil | redeeman: Fair enough - this was polling the bq27200 battery managment chip - averaging over a period of 5 minutes the 5s interval measurements. | 17:56 |
| alterego | Funnyface: that's not the point :P | 17:56 |
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| Funnyface | but for just IM and some small web browsing.. | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | redeeman: With the CPU idle, screen off. | 17:57 |
| Funnyface | 2G is way better | 17:57 |
| E0x | jabber server with gateway for google talk and MSN example just need one "still alive ping" so in theory that can help minimize the impact in the 3g not ? | 17:57 |
| alterego | Web browsing for me is painful on 2G ... | 17:57 |
| alterego | IM is fine. | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | E0x: It depends on the protocol details. | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | E0x: you actually need to look at tcpdumps | 17:57 |
| E0x | i mean you only will need the jabber server still alive ping | 17:57 |
| E0x | and not one for google and msn | 17:57 |
| E0x | too | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | E0x: If the jabber server is acting like a proxy - then yes | 17:58 |
| E0x | yes , the jabber public server act like that | 17:58 |
| SpeedEvil | redeeman: What's your argument with the above numbers? | 17:58 |
| Corsac | didn't had a chance to trace IM trafic, but it's definitely not doable to have it enabled all day for me | 17:58 |
| Corsac | if I enable my jabber account in the morning, the bat will die before the evening :/ | 17:59 |
| E0x | you create a account , and define the other account ( if the jabber server have that gateway for that protocolo ) | 17:59 |
| Funnyface | for an active IRC channel you can forget about it, because it keeps re enabling the radio all the time | 17:59 |
| Funnyface | but for MSN where you get a message every once in a while it's all good :P | 17:59 |
| Funnyface | put the phone next to a stereo so it catches the interference, then join an empty IRC channel, send one message and see how long the radio is active for just for that one message :P | 18:00 |
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| Funnyface | anyway, I installed some 2G/3G switcher app which can switch while the data connection is active so it doesn't drop your connection to everything | 18:01 |
| Funnyface | I keep it on 2G all the time unless I am going to do something that specifically needs 3G | 18:02 |
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| alterego | Funnyface: that's exactly what I do, though I'm thinking of automating it to switch when the load is high for more than a few seconds. | 18:02 |
| alterego | So I don't have to use the applet anymore. | 18:02 |
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| Funnyface | :P | 18:02 |
| Funnyface | yes, another feature I miss is that it should enable 3G for internet when I receive a phone call | 18:02 |
| Funnyface | because my carrier doesn't support GSM calls and data over the same radio | 18:03 |
| E0x | Funnyface: what app do the switch without data drop ? | 18:03 |
| Funnyface | E0x: it was called 2g/3g/dual or something | 18:03 |
| Funnyface | can't remember, but if you sort by name it should be near the top | 18:03 |
| E0x | i have that and do the drop of the connection | 18:03 |
| E0x | when i do the switch | 18:03 |
| Funnyface | it doesn't, it dies for like 6-7 secs | 18:03 |
| Funnyface | but it doesn't disconnect you | 18:04 |
| E0x | hmm | 18:04 |
| E0x | i will try it | 18:04 |
| Funnyface | when you switch, it doesn't drop you from IRC for example, things just get delayed by a few secs | 18:04 |
| alterego | Funnyface: that's actually a problem with 2G, 2G only allows voice OR data, not simultaneous. Where as 3G allows both at the same time. | 18:04 |
| E0x | hmm that is a problem | 18:05 |
| Funnyface | alterego: as far as I know, the N900's GSM radio should allow both | 18:05 |
| E0x | for me | 18:05 |
| SpeedEvil | FunnyfaceThat depends on ISPs annoyingly | 18:05 |
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| E0x | i can't then allow have my IM connected | 18:05 |
| E0x | in 2g | 18:05 |
| Funnyface | yes, what speed said | 18:05 |
| alterego | E0x: yes you can, it'll just stall whilst you're on the phone :P | 18:05 |
| Funnyface | E0x: if it's a short phone call, it will be restored afterwards | 18:05 |
| E0x | oh ok | 18:05 |
| E0x | cool then | 18:06 |
| Funnyface | it depends if the break is so long that your TCP connections time out or not | 18:06 |
| E0x | hmm what blackberry does for keep battery consumtion fine and alway have IM connected ? | 18:07 |
| Surfa | tcp connection timeouts are insanely long by default.. it's highly unlikely yhat they timeout | 18:07 |
| E0x | or do something like in fly switch ? | 18:07 |
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| Jiri- | Hello | 18:08 |
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| Jiri- | CAn some help me with nokia map loader. n900 win7 | 18:08 |
| Surfa | talking many minutes at tcp level | 18:08 |
| timeless_mbp | Jiri-: is it supported? | 18:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Surfa: freenode forex timesout at 240s. | 18:08 |
| Jiri- | timeless_mbp it should be | 18:08 |
| Jiri- | timeless_mbp it allways says "waiting for phones" | 18:09 |
| Surfa | SpeedEvil, sounds typical | 18:09 |
| Surfa | Jiri-, it isnt i think | 18:09 |
| SpeedEvil | It used to be 10 min. | 18:09 |
| * SpeedEvil preferred 10 min. | 18:09 | |
| Surfa | SpeedEvil, most clients will timeout sooner | 18:10 |
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| cehteh | bah .. spamers send spam through ovi to the git ml | 18:10 |
| timeless_mbp | Jiri-: why do you think "it should be"? | 18:11 |
| Jiri- | Surfa tämmösen löysin mut ei löytynyt http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=494373&postcount=46 | 18:11 |
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| Jiri- | timeless_mbp surfa. is it anyother way to donwload offline maps to n900 then? | 18:12 |
| frals | Jiri-: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2009/10/13/downloading_ovi_maps_without_a_network_c | 18:12 |
| Surfa | n900 maps is pretty crappy :( | 18:12 |
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| Jiri- | well do yuo know any better navigation system for n900` | 18:13 |
| Funnyface | I installed something called Sygic or whatever it was | 18:13 |
| Surfa | sygic or so.. what was the name | 18:13 |
| Funnyface | turn by turn navigation | 18:13 |
| Funnyface | but the maps are lacking there as well | 18:14 |
| Funnyface | + it's not free | 18:14 |
| MiXu- | Yes? | 18:14 |
| MiXu- | You need to install the maps separately for it. | 18:14 |
| MiXu- | THey're in ovi store | 18:14 |
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| Funnyface | well, I got them from "another source" | 18:15 |
| Funnyface | :p | 18:15 |
| MiXu- | I'm not sure what you mean by "lacking" | 18:15 |
| Funnyface | well, at my location, it doesn't contain small streets and things like that, only main roads and cities | 18:16 |
| MiXu- | ah, got ya | 18:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: Openstreetmap! | 18:16 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 18:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: Where are you again, I forgot. | 18:16 |
| Funnyface | SpeedEvil: OSM doesn't even have my street on the map :P | 18:16 |
| Funnyface | Norway | 18:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh no. | 18:17 |
| MiXu- | That's odd | 18:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: well - fix it! :) osm2go++ | 18:17 |
| Funnyface | :P | 18:17 |
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| MiXu- | All the Finnish streets and roads that I've needed so far have been there. | 18:17 |
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| Funnyface | MiXu-: perhaps you have a different map pack | 18:18 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd pay the 60CUR or whatever and get the other vendor's product | 18:18 |
| MiXu- | I've got the Nordic map pack | 18:18 |
| timeless_mbp | they probably offer real support among other things | 18:18 |
| Funnyface | like, you'll have detailed maps of finland, but only main roads in the rest of europe | 18:18 |
| Funnyface | ah ok | 18:18 |
| Jiri- | well i just want to have some kind of map whenn going abroad... | 18:18 |
| MiXu- | Bought it for 39,90e | 18:18 |
| Funnyface | but well like I said, I got them from.. ahem.. "another source" :P | 18:18 |
| E0x | hope google port the map app for meego a least | 18:18 |
| Funnyface | so I guess those maps aren't nordic | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10149 | 18:18 |
| povbot | Bug 10149: CSS for editing renders a messed up page on 1280*768 | 18:18 |
| Jiri- | well poland | 18:19 |
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| Jiri- | i try that sygic from "another source" if it better than ovi maps | 18:19 |
| lcuk | can we remove the notice about pr1.2 and instead change it to a generic block on pirated copyright materials | 18:20 |
| MiXu- | imo Sygic is well worth paying for | 18:21 |
| Jiri- | i test it first and then decide after that | 18:22 |
| frals | lcuk: should probably highlight DocScrutinizer for that ;o | 18:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah... | 18:22 |
| lcuk | i wasnt aware they had a test version Jiri- would you show me the link to their site where its offered? | 18:23 |
| Funnyface | as long as it isn't bogged down with DRM crap and locked to the device's ID etc it might be worth paying for yes | 18:23 |
| MiXu- | Funnyface: There's no DRM | 18:23 |
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| Funnyface | and if they allow you to download a binary copy | 18:23 |
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| Jiri- | lcuk i think the "test" version filetype is .torrent | 18:24 |
| lcuk | Jiri-, do you write your own software? | 18:25 |
| Jiri- | no i don't | 18:25 |
| Jiri- | i use to about 15 year ago but not anymore | 18:25 |
| MiXu- | There is a test version of Sygic | 18:26 |
| MiXu- | It's free for 7 days | 18:26 |
| Jiri- | ok i didn't know that | 18:26 |
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| lcuk | MiXu-, from where? | 18:27 |
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| MiXu- | lcuk: ovi store | 18:28 |
| Funnyface | hmm, which means you can use a tool to reset the trial every week? lol | 18:29 |
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| MiXu- | Doing that would be just teasing yourself. | 18:29 |
| Funnyface | my mate is running an "extended trial" of norton antivirus :P | 18:30 |
| MiXu- | Because that's probably not any more legal than just stealing it. | 18:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and this chan has a lot of members that earn their living by selling software. You won't gain a lot of friends by suggesting such practice | 18:32 |
| hrw-uds | hi people | 18:33 |
| lcuk | and since the gpl and most open source is supported by strong copyright laws, even people in the free software crowd will look down upon such practices | 18:34 |
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| MiXu- | I'm proud to say I haven't pirated anything on Maemo. :) | 18:34 |
| hrw-uds | MiXu-: thats because there is nothing to pirate here (maybe except sygic mobile) | 18:35 |
| alterego | MiXu-: good job :) | 18:35 |
| MiXu- | and joikuspot (which I also bought) | 18:35 |
| alterego | I don't really have a need for either. | 18:35 |
| MacDrunk | hmmm | 18:36 |
| MacDrunk | hey hello all | 18:36 |
| alterego | I'm happy using the USB connector for my internet tethering needs. | 18:36 |
| MacDrunk | im new at this | 18:36 |
| MacDrunk | is hard to program on maemo | 18:36 |
| MacDrunk | i like to take some programming courses | 18:36 |
| MiXu- | Learn Qt | 18:37 |
| MacDrunk | qt | 18:37 |
| MacDrunk | ?? | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | MacDrunk: there are better platforms to start learning programming, for sure | 18:37 |
| MacDrunk | yea like ???? | 18:37 |
| MacDrunk | c++ or so | 18:37 |
| hrw-uds | MacDrunk: write code for desktop. use Qt for it | 18:37 |
| MiXu- | If you wanna code for maemo start from: http://qt.nokia.com | 18:37 |
| MiXu- | Write a desktop app and then port it to Maemo. | 18:38 |
| MacDrunk | ok | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | MacDrunk: see, the maemo development tools are not exactly easy to master even for experienced programmers | 18:39 |
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| ruskie | hmm is there a way to specify that a certain mime type should be opened with a diff tool? on the n900 that is naturally... | 18:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: would think so | 18:40 |
| MacDrunk | well first ill take a look at the qt tutorials | 18:41 |
| MacDrunk | then ill take a basic proggaming course | 18:41 |
| MacDrunk | first of all | 18:41 |
| MacDrunk | i havent a clue on how to program | 18:41 |
| MacDrunk | so i better start form zero | 18:42 |
| MiXu- | MacDrunk: Qt is a toolkit for C++. So if you can't find a Qt course, take a C++ course. | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | MacDrunk: then by all means avoid looking at qt for now | 18:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MacDrunk: and I'd even recommend not to start with C++ either | 18:42 |
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| alterego | Python+Qt/PySide :) | 18:43 |
| alterego | Nice gentle introduction into programming ... | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | you might want to start with a 'simple' programming language, like C | 18:43 |
| alterego | anyhow, I gotta get a bus, later #maemo | 18:43 |
| hrw-uds | or BASIC? | 18:43 |
| tripzero | simple... lols | 18:43 |
| hrw-uds | DocScrutinizer: C++ is simpler then C | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | nooooooo, no basic | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | hrw-uds: LOL | 18:44 |
| alterego | hrw-uds: lies | 18:44 |
| hrw-uds | if you do not touch classes, inheritance but only write functions | 18:44 |
| alterego | :) | 18:44 |
| * alterego waves | 18:44 | |
| MiXu- | My first programming language was Java, but now I wish I had learnt C++ first. | 18:44 |
| tripzero | i think it's better to start with c++. c++ can do c too | 18:44 |
| hrw-uds | C forces few things which C++ allows | 18:44 |
| tripzero | and it can be simple enough | 18:45 |
| hrw-uds | like declaring variables anywhere which is C++ but not C | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | tbh I'd like to suggest assembler to everybody, for starting programming | 18:45 |
| MiXu- | lol | 18:45 |
| hrw-uds | DocScrutinizer: pic16xxx had simple asm | 18:45 |
| MiXu- | DocScrutinizer: To make sure they give up? :D | 18:45 |
| tripzero | lol | 18:45 |
| tripzero | asm forces you to learn how it all works under the hood. but it sure is painful... | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, to get the right approach to what programmin | 18:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | g is all about | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | tripzero: ++ | 18:46 |
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| MiXu- | Majority of programmers don't need to know about asm | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | MiXu-: that's a common error | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | leading to absurdities like drivers written in C++ and taking minutes to initialize | 18:48 |
| tripzero | Majority of programmers also suck | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | tripzero: exactly | 18:48 |
| MiXu- | tripzero: True | 18:48 |
| tripzero | i should know, i'm one of those who suck :P | 18:48 |
| MiXu- | Me too | 18:48 |
| MiXu- | But that's the point. It's ok if majority sucks, as long as there are the experts that can fix things when other's don't know how. | 18:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer summons raster | 18:49 | |
| MiXu- | In a perfect world things would be different of course | 18:49 |
| E0x | i am a perfect world i was a king :D | 18:50 |
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| tripzero | so... is pr1.2 out yet? | 18:50 |
| MiXu- | But if you look at the most used programming languages: In addition to C and C++ (where it's good if you know asm) there's Java, PHP, Javascript, Python, SQL, Perl, C#... No need for asm afaik. | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | asking for /kick? | 18:51 |
| tripzero | i just got done battling my phone with the droid over the weekend when I visited my family | 18:51 |
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| tripzero | my bro thought the front facing camera was cool. too bad there's no software to use it yet :S | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | MiXu-: ASM isn't about using it in SQL, it's about learning concepts | 18:52 |
| tripzero | ...and writing drivers and other low level stuff that you want fast | 18:52 |
| hrw-uds | ~pr1.2 | 18:53 |
| infobot | i heard pr1.2 is not here yet. Stop asking. Read the topic Just stop asking. Read the topic. AND STOP ASKING. If you ask then release moves by another week, so do not ask. | 18:53 |
| MiXu- | DocScrutinizer: I suppose you can learn those concepts (good programming practices, etc.) even if you don't know about asm? | 18:53 |
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| MiXu- | Of course it never hurts to know what's under the hood. I'm just saying that starting from asm is quite extreme. | 18:54 |
| ruskie | hmm fun... 13.7MB on / | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | MiXu-: you *can* but alas in E.G. C++ nothing is forcing you to learn them, and you'll end with code that's abysmal ugly wrt machine optimization and a number of other aspects | 18:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MiXu-: starting from C++ is what I call extreme. Learning about object instantiation while no idea whatsoever about the difference between call-by-ref and call-by-value | 18:56 |
| lcuk | MiXu-, raw binary is a bit extreme, assembler teaches you the fundemental building blocks that ALL code is written using no matter the language | 18:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: exactly! thanks mate | 18:57 |
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| MacDrunk | well later all | 18:58 |
| MacDrunk | im off to look for a programming school | 18:59 |
| MacDrunk | thanks for the advice | 18:59 |
| MiXu- | I see what you guys are saying. | 18:59 |
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| Funnyface | I was always recommended to start directly on something like C or C++ instead of a crap language, because it'd be harder to learn C/C++ later after learning the crap one :p | 19:01 |
| chem|st | tripzero: mplayer tv:// -tv device=/dev/video1 | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | MiXu-: by all means avoid things like garbage collectors, implicit typecasts and esp implicit var declarations in the language you start with | 19:01 |
| MiXu- | Funnyface: Exactly | 19:01 |
| tripzero | chem|st, ehhe, true | 19:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so what? You won't tell me assembler is a crap language? | 19:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | basic is a crap language | 19:02 |
| Funnyface | assembly is probably the least crappy one | 19:02 |
| chem|st | tripzero: many ways how to display front cam, even stream it... | 19:02 |
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| Funnyface | while vb is the most crappy one :p | 19:02 |
| MohammadAG | vbulliten? | 19:02 |
| tripzero | chem|st, but not via skype/google voice/talk :( | 19:02 |
| Funnyface | MS visual basic | 19:03 |
| MohammadAG | bah | 19:03 |
| MohammadAG | sucks | 19:03 |
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| MiXu- | In my books the efficiency of a language also counts. If I write a 1KLOC app in Qt and it'd take me 1000KLOC in asm, I'd say asm is a crap language. But those numbers aren't based on anything. Just an example. | 19:03 |
| tripzero | lols | 19:04 |
| * tripzero writes a stupid "mirror" application | 19:04 | |
| chem|st | tripzero: if you come from µ$ you may have a problem but being the kind of people using xserver to have multiple windows on one monitor... is exporting of /dev/video1 to somewhere else just a 30 char cmd-line | 19:04 |
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| omar | hey Docscrutinizer, lcuk I uninstalled the callnotifier and my hildon-status-menu's cpu usage is nearly non existent now. i'm guessing the app kept polling the device every few seconds to check for missed calls and stuff | 19:04 |
| chem|st | s/windows/shells/ | 19:04 |
| infobot | chem|st meant: tripzero: if you come from µ$ you may have a problem but being the kind of people using xserver to have multiple shells on one monitor... is exporting of /dev/video1 to somewhere else just a 30 char cmd-line | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's three types of devels that are spoiled for life and never will get it right: the scriptkiddies, the vb idiots, and the prolog math nerds | 19:05 |
| chem|st | well screen is capable of doing things like that aswell... | 19:06 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, i spent 10 years as a vb guy | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | C++ is somewhere in between the later 2 | 19:06 |
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| lcuk | but i never stopped coding like it was c :) | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: as long as you touched vb after you finished your programming elementary school, you're not doomed ;-P | 19:07 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, zx spectrum got me into identifying faults, amiga sas c got me into coding | 19:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: :-D | 19:08 |
| lcuk | 68k is the nicest flavour of asm ive ever used | 19:08 |
| lcuk | looking at x86 asm made me weep | 19:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep | 19:09 |
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| dneary | andre__, ping? | 19:10 |
| andre__ | dneary, pong | 19:10 |
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| MohammadAG | http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/10/canonical-shows-off-unity-desktop-ubuntu-light-for-oems/ | 19:11 |
| dneary | andre__, I was wondering, which questions of mine were you thinking of when we talked about a documentation product for bugzilla? | 19:11 |
| andre__ | dneary, hmm? you mean my email response to jarmo why I haven't created it yet? | 19:12 |
| dneary | andre__, Yes, that one | 19:12 |
| andre__ | ah. was about the workflow. if you think everything's clear now I can create it this week | 19:12 |
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| dneary | The workflow? Ah - you mean when someone goes "New bug" what the title on the next screen should say? | 19:24 |
| dneary | Sorry - I need to refresh my memory on this | 19:24 |
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| andre__ | dneary, nope, refered more to technical stuff (like copying content). but that seems to be solved now | 19:26 |
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| crazyhorss | Is there a function for camera to take photo in 5 seconds for say a time when i just want to set the phone on a platform and take a photo including myself | 19:28 |
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| crazyhorss | it's a very simple feature | 19:29 |
| dneary | andre__, The last thing I can find is "proposed reorganisation of ..." | 19:29 |
| andre__ | dneary, I think that's the status currently, yepp | 19:30 |
| dneary | crazyhorss, I don't know if a way to do it with the N900. | 19:30 |
| dneary | andre__, Then if we could put that proposal into practice soon, that would be cool | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | crazyhorss: thought same ~12h ago | 19:30 |
| andre__ | dneary, ok | 19:30 |
| dneary | I'd like to start using Bugzilla to track wiki gardening tasks | 19:30 |
| dneary | Rather than trying to maintain a wiki page as a TODO list | 19:31 |
| dneary | Which sucks badly | 19:31 |
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| andre__ | crazyhorss, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38275 , http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/camera_timer_for_taking_timed_shots/ | 19:31 |
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| andre__ | dneary, is that the "wikify useful stuff posted in t.m.o" thread or more general? | 19:32 |
| dneary | crazyhorss, so, as andre__ says, there's a way to script it, but not using the camera app | 19:32 |
| dneary | slightly more general | 19:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | wow, camera pumps up cpu to 100 | 19:35 |
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| TomaszD | hmm, bike gloves made in Pakistan | 19:37 |
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| andrewfblack | Hello | 20:03 |
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| Piotras | X-Fade, Anything new wrt python2.3 issue and unrecognized option ? | 20:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | anybody herealready had a look into it? how's camera notfied about cam_launch button press? | 20:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | dbus? sysfs? direct readout of the SoC GPIO register? | 20:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | I looked on dbus a while back, and diddn't see anything | 20:18 |
| r0gcas | hi anybody there? i would need help with scratchbox. what i want is to enter scratchbox specifying the target for compilation before entering. | 20:18 |
| SpeedEvil | I diddn't look at it very closely. | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | there's a msg on dbus | 20:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | szstembus | 20:19 |
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| alterego | I'm pretty sure it's dbus | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | reedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_cam_focus; interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=Condition string "ButtonPressed" | 20:20 |
| MohammadAG | gpio | 20:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - of course the lowest level is fpio | 20:20 |
| MohammadAG | [ 8253.836700] cam_focus (GPIO 68) is now active | 20:20 |
| SpeedEvil | what watches the GPUIO and pokes the camera though | 20:20 |
| SpeedEvil | cam_focus is 'half-pressed' | 20:20 |
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| MohammadAG | [ 8268.757873] cam_launch (GPIO 69) is now inactive | 20:21 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 20:21 |
| SpeedEvil | I suppose it's logical that the camera would half-wake on cam_focus - to get ready for the likely shortly upcoming press event | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I 'just' want to fake a buttonpress event for cam_GUI ;) | 20:21 |
| r0gcas | i am sorry to interrupt, but i only need to know how to enter scratchbox specifying before the compilation target | 20:21 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: why? | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: I know | 20:21 |
| SpeedEvil | r0gcas: /me has no clue. | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: timer shoot | 20:22 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 20:22 |
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| alterego | DocScrutinizer51: would it not be far easier to use gstreamer direcgtly? | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | should scrutinize camgui's dbus methods - maybe there's shoot? | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | alterego: for simply operating the cam chip yes | 20:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | but I want augmented camgui functionality | 20:24 |
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| alterego | DocScrutinizer51: what functionality? everything can be done through gstreamer surely? | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | alterego: and I don't want to reinvent whole camera GUI | 20:25 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: As I understand it, overlay is hard | 20:26 |
| alterego | oh you want a UI :) | 20:26 |
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| alterego | well, you could write you own source filter and put it in the camera config file inplace of v4lsrc | 20:26 |
| alterego | Hrm, xevent feedback wouldn't work though :) | 20:27 |
| r0gcas | hi, i am sorry to interrupt, daes anybody happens when wants to change target in scratchbox a message like "first close other scratchbox session" appears? how do you resolve this? | 20:27 |
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| alterego | think you can specify the sink too though. not sure that helps. | 20:28 |
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| dmj726 | It's nice to see tmo filled with [Announce] threads again | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | alterego: nah, I want the original cam app. just make it shoot a photo | 20:30 |
| alterego | Are you trying to augment the camera ui? | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but keep all the setup, storing etc options | 20:31 |
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| alterego | right | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | alterego: exactly | 20:31 |
| dmj726 | If you can augment the cam ui, let me know | 20:31 |
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| alterego | Me too :D | 20:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | gdb goes a long way ;-P | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | as does hexedit | 20:32 |
| dmj726 | :):-( | 20:33 |
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| r0gcas | topic: scratchbox. problem: how to change compilation target when a message like 'first close other scratchbox session' appears. can anyone help? please.. | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | is that chinese letter? | 20:34 |
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| PSW | Are you looking to work from home to earn extra cash, just by answering calls? Check this out. It's real and eligible! Feel free to ask any questions. http://www.pswva.com/uk/1000310/ | 20:34 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 20:35 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b PSW!*@* | 20:35 | |
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| andre__ | thanks. | 20:35 |
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| MohammadAG | welcome | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | np | 20:35 |
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| andre__ | DocScrutinizer, can you do the same in #meego with the same guy? :-P | 20:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sorry, no +o on #meego | 20:37 |
| MohammadAG | * p :0 staff members GRR | 20:37 |
| dmj726 | it's a smiley and a frowny | 20:37 |
| MohammadAG | join #freenode and ask that it gets klined | 20:37 |
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| r0gcas | last try: anyone knows how to enter scratchbox specifying compilation target? | 20:39 |
| MohammadAG | sb-conf select FREMANTLE_X86/ARMEL | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | andre__: MohammadAG: done | 20:40 |
| r0gcas | thanks, but sb-conf select FREMANTLE_X86/ARMEL, you do it when you already are in scratchbox, and sometime happens that when you try this a message appears saying you must close first your actual session in scratchbox, do you know how to resolve this? | 20:41 |
| MohammadAG | sb-menu and hit killall | 20:42 |
| MohammadAG | last option | 20:42 |
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| r0gcas | yes, it is what i did and worked fine, but now it doesn't work. maybe it is a bug and have to restart | 20:43 |
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| MohammadAG | never happened to me tbh | 20:43 |
| MohammadAG | killall always solves it here | 20:44 |
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| * SpeedEvil sighs at the grammar of spammers. | 20:44 | |
| SpeedEvil | 'Real and eligable' ? | 20:44 |
| r0gcas | ok, thanks for your help MohammadAG, i don't know why this doesn't work now, but i suppose it will work in the future. goodbye and have a nice day | 20:45 |
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| alterego | DocScrutinizer51: gst-inspect camerabin looks interesting... | 20:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alterego: heh :-D what's it showing? | 20:45 |
| MohammadAG | am I going somewhere? | 20:46 |
| brik | he went somewhere | 20:46 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: lots | 20:46 |
| Terje_ | QSqlDatabase: QSQLITE driver not loaded | 20:46 |
| Terje_ | QSqlDatabase: available drivers: | 20:46 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: you can tell it to take a picture. | 20:47 |
| Terje_ | Not a good sign not to have any available SQL drivers. | 20:47 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: still probably not what you need though. | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | naw, prolly not | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | interesting stuff though | 20:47 |
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| alterego | yeah, if you use it as a sole element, it just shows the camera, but you can use it to tke videos or images :D | 20:48 |
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| alterego | Maybe I should rewrite camera-ui ;) | 20:48 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: Plz! | 20:49 |
| alterego | :) | 20:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Also integrate 'flashlight' into it | 20:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alterego: feels like ALSA, somewhat | 20:50 |
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| alterego | I'd make it far more modular. I might start working on it when I finish my current project. just need a few more days on this one :) | 20:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alterego: I'd happily help on reviewing the architecture | 20:51 |
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| alterego | DocScrutinizer: it's date ;) | 20:53 |
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| alterego | bbiab | 20:54 |
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| r0gcas | hi, i continue with scratchbox stuff. does anyone know how to execute killall from the command-line? i try kill -n 15 but it doesn't work | 21:00 |
| lcuk | r0gcas, it only works if you have ninjas on your tail | 21:01 |
| lcuk | killall ninjas | 21:01 |
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| r0gcas | killall ninjas? i will try | 21:01 |
| lcuk | and most liekly failing for you because you arent being chased, or root or something | 21:01 |
| slonopotamus_ | r0gcas, sb-<smth> killall | 21:02 |
| r0gcas | ninjas: no process killed | 21:02 |
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| slonopotamus_ | hey, you can't kill ninjas | 21:02 |
| lcuk | pirates can | 21:02 |
| slonopotamus_ | damn | 21:03 |
| BCMM | grrr | 21:03 |
| lcuk | *arrr | 21:03 |
| E0x | lcuk: not , they cannot | 21:03 |
| * BCMM is adding "+44" to the start of all his contact's numbers using sed | 21:03 | |
| BCMM | (so they work with skype) | 21:03 |
| lcuk | E0x, do you have proof that ninjas are pirate proof? | 21:03 |
| slonopotamus_ | i suspect r0gcas isn't a pirate | 21:03 |
| r0gcas | i don't know what ninjas are. slonopotamus_ i try sb-<smth> killall and says it doesn't exist the file | 21:03 |
| slonopotamus_ | ... | 21:03 |
| r0gcas | no, i am a novice, total | 21:03 |
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| slonopotamus_ | :D | 21:04 |
| lcuk | r0gcas, what are you trying to kill | 21:04 |
| r0gcas | all processes, | 21:04 |
| slonopotamus_ | r0gcas, <smth> should be replaced by something, i just can't remember exact name | 21:04 |
| r0gcas | because i want to change compile target | 21:04 |
| omar | BCMM, your skype out works? :( | 21:04 |
| lcuk | r0gcas, in "sb-menu" theres an option to kill everything | 21:05 |
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| r0gcas | ahh, ok, maybe like sb-menu ... | 21:05 |
| r0gcas | or sb-conf | 21:05 |
| BCMM | omar: apparently | 21:05 |
| slonopotamus_ | lcuk, it's also doable frim commandline | 21:05 |
| E0x | lcuk: yes, you can't follow ninja and pirate can run with they leg of wood | 21:05 |
| slonopotamus_ | s/rim/rom/ | 21:05 |
| infobot | slonopotamus_ meant: lcuk, it's also doable from commandline | 21:05 |
| BCMM | omar: only it cries at numbers without an international prefix | 21:05 |
| omar | BCMM, do i have to do anything special to get it working? whenever I call someone their phone rings and can answer but we can't hear each other and it disconnects after a sec | 21:05 |
| lcuk | sure slonopotamus_ but at least i can remember the method this way | 21:05 |
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| omar | BCMM, yeah i know i've been using the prefix | 21:06 |
| BCMM | so, export contacts, do some sed to them, import | 21:06 |
| omar | BCMM, furthermore i can use skype on my PC to same # and i can hear myself fine ;/ | 21:06 |
| BCMM | unless somebody knows a better way | 21:06 |
| BCMM | omar: well, i have no idea | 21:06 |
| slonopotamus_ | BCMM, storing numbers without country code is nonportable | 21:06 |
| omar | figured ;/ | 21:06 |
| BCMM | omar: does skype-skype work? | 21:06 |
| omar | skype skype works | 21:06 |
| BCMM | slonopotamus_: i know | 21:06 |
| omar | skype messaging works too | 21:06 |
| r0gcas | look, i do sb-conf killall and ok, and then i do sb-conf select FREMANTLE_X86 and problems, says close other scratchbox session first | 21:06 |
| BCMM | omar: no idea | 21:06 |
| omar | i shall contact skype support then | 21:06 |
| BCMM | by the way, if anybody has SIP and is happy with it, tell me what you use | 21:07 |
| lcuk | r0gcas, just reboot and stop switching around? | 21:07 |
| slonopotamus_ | lcuk, that soo windows-way | 21:07 |
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| BCMM | (especially if your network NATs you and it still works) | 21:07 |
| lcuk | slonopotamus_, hes a windows user | 21:07 |
| lcuk | i think | 21:07 |
| slonopotamus_ | oh | 21:07 |
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| slonopotamus_ | novice windows pirate, i see | 21:08 |
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| r0gcas | ok i will reboot. quitting... thanks and bye | 21:08 |
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| lcuk | something tells me he was using a virtual machine too | 21:09 |
| lcuk | rebooting that wouldv had the same job lol | 21:09 |
| frals | isnt there an option in sb-menu to kill all processes? | 21:09 |
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| lcuk | frals, i suggested this first | 21:10 |
| frals | ah ok | 21:10 |
| frals | didnt read the whole backlog :P | 21:10 |
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| lcuk | me neither but i offered the option from nice gui menu | 21:10 |
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| lcuk | but he carried on with command line | 21:10 |
| crazyhorss | hey Doc sorry for late reply im mobile atm... have you found the solution to timed picture taking thing? | 21:11 |
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| crazyhorss | oh scripting it, i see. going to ask if the guy that wrote manual video focus to add this option | 21:12 |
| crazyhorss | the manual focus is awesome.. use it all the time | 21:13 |
| SimonLR | I wrestled a bear once | 21:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: ( <BCMM> by the way, if anybody has SIP and is happy) sipgate.de | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | .at, co.uk | 21:15 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: and that is cool with NAT? | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | works flawlessly | 21:16 |
| BCMM | and does it generally peer with other SIP networks? | 21:16 |
| BCMM | (not that that is likely to make a great difference to me) | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | a large number, yes | 21:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, http://www.sipgate.co.uk/user/tarife.php?show=6 shows just 2 - once there's been like 100 | 21:20 |
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| derf | Wow, it is ridiculously hard to change your wifi password. | 21:32 |
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| ruskie | ? | 21:33 |
| derf | Well, typing it into the dialog didn't seem to change what was actually stored in gconf, so it would ask me again. Every time. | 21:33 |
| derf | I wound up using gconftool-2 to overwrite the plaintext version stored in gconf. | 21:34 |
| derf | Which, without cut and paste for the 6-bajillion digit hex id it uses for the network, was a PITA. | 21:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | derf: file a bug | 21:35 |
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| derf | This has been broken since at least Chinook. | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh cool | 21:36 |
| lcuk | derf, anything special about your network | 21:36 |
| derf | (I know, because I just did it 5 minutes earlier on my N810, where at least I had gconfeditor to make it relatively painless). | 21:36 |
| PhonicUK | hey all | 21:36 |
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| lcuk | and is there a bug number | 21:36 |
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| derf | lcuk: Not my network. Work. Which is why they make me change my password. | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | fwiw - I encountered same annoyance in Knetworkmanager | 21:37 |
| lcuk | password change time is bad for more than just handhelds | 21:37 |
| lcuk | my human brain has been broken with it forever | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems there's something essentially borked | 21:38 |
| ds3 | 8 | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | 9 | 21:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | obviously your best bet always is to completely delete the network link and configure from scratch | 21:39 |
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| lcuk | ive got an n900 on irc here, i know its ip address but i cannot open a connection to it because its on 3g | 21:40 |
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| * DocScrutinizer blames rendezvous | 21:41 | |
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| lcuk | i need to *find* the device | 21:41 |
| lcuk | and was gonna start media player or something over ssh | 21:41 |
| lcuk | but i cant connect \@/ | 21:42 |
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| lcuk | i dont suppose theres an xchat exploit around is there | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3G is NAT | 21:42 |
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| lcuk | yeah and theres an outbound connection from it | 21:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | won't help | 21:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | call it | 21:43 |
| Terje_ | Had a friend with a unix box a decade or so ago, who would let his friends telnet in. The friends returned the favour by playing rooster sound in the middle of the night. | 21:43 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, datasim on the missing on | 21:43 |
| lcuk | e | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 21:43 |
| ruskie | gah... why is perl so crippled on the n900 :( | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | highlight it on irc, if you got beep notifications | 21:44 |
| Terje_ | lcuk, any VoIP account configured? | 21:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Terje_: nice point | 21:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or send some mails ;-P | 21:45 |
| frals | lcuk: this is why we *always* open ssh-reverse tunnels ;-) | 21:45 |
| cehteh | openvpn ftw | 21:45 |
| lcuk | no Terje_ | 21:45 |
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| lcuk | i need to just go hunting | 21:45 |
| Terje_ | lcuk, then you just need to remember where you put the darn thing | 21:45 |
| lcuk | ^^ | 21:46 |
| lcuk | it wasnt me :) jacob asked if he could use it | 21:46 |
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| lcuk | no he doesnt remember where it is | 21:46 |
| lcuk | "wheres the car keys?" | 21:46 |
| lcuk | "in the sand daddy." | 21:46 |
| * lcuk looks around a whole beach | 21:46 | |
| lcuk | bbl | 21:47 |
| Terje_ | lcuk, ok, check the toilet bowl. | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: wait until bat drains - it will yell | 21:47 |
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| * lbt starts on the espresso and de-scratchboxing 'base-files' | 21:48 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: at least you learnt to schedule a few alarms whenever you give it to him again | 21:49 |
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| * DocScrutinizer suggests a RF-detector to lcuk - then opening a massive spamming irc session to make the modem transmit | 21:50 | |
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| lcukn9002 | no you dont. | 21:51 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, i need something | 21:53 |
| lcuk | ive found it now | 21:53 |
| lcuk | but for future | 21:53 |
| lcuk | i cant give him one with active cell in it because he calls people and answers calls as if its his own phone | 21:53 |
| frals | hahaha | 21:53 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Simply implement per-user accounts. | 21:54 |
| Terje_ | lcuk, I give my son an old N81 with no SIM. He's happy to play with it, but then again, he's only 18 months. | 21:54 |
| lcuk | well i asked this, remove the calling and messaging apps from use | 21:54 |
| lcuk | Terje_, mine likes to play angry birds and mahjong | 21:55 |
| lcuk | and whens hes bored of that he phones his mum and sings to her | 21:55 |
| Terje_ | lcuk, ok, I have a Nintendo DS for kids for playing. | 21:55 |
| lcuk | awfully cute, but not when we are in the hairdressers | 21:55 |
| lcuk | Terje_, nintendo ds doesnt have "call mummy" feature | 21:55 |
| Terje_ | lcuk, ok, enough details. | 21:55 |
| dhq | any new update for n900 | 21:55 |
| lcuk | its the frikkin killer app for him | 21:55 |
| Terje_ | lcuk, it's easier to talk to her. We're usually in the house. | 21:56 |
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| lcuk | Terje_, you know kids, they play calling when sat next to each other | 21:56 |
| lcuk | anyway i have a device with only data sim in :) | 21:57 |
| lcuk | which was the start of this | 21:57 |
| Terje_ | lcuk, lucky my kids haven't found that game. | 21:57 |
| RST38h | "A trainee accountant who posted a message on Twitter threatening to blow an airport ''sky high'' has been found guilty of sending a menacing electronic communication. " | 21:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: schedule alarms for 20:00, 20:02, 20:04... | 21:58 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, saw that | 21:59 |
| haltdef | speaking of alarms, is there something that'd slowly increase the volume from nothing? | 21:59 |
| haltdef | wake up andhave a fucking heart attack atm | 21:59 |
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| pupnik | who do we have to blow to get qt libs fixed in repo? | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | haltdef: alas not | 22:00 |
| lcuk | haltdef, just set it to an mp3 of your choosing | 22:00 |
| lcuk | with nice polite start? | 22:00 |
| haltdef | mm | 22:01 |
| * lcuk has James : Ring the bells | 22:01 | |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders if there's a dbus call to adjust volume | 22:01 | |
| haltdef | just using my old WM phone to do it atm | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.osso_hp_ls_controller /com/nokia/osso_hp_ls_controller com.nokia.osso_hp_ls_controller.loudspeaker.force_ loudspeaker_off | 22:02 |
| haltdef | most expensive alarm clock ever | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | not exactly what we need | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly the whole 'brilliant' pulseaudio' maze is missing a lot of softvol controls | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | the alarm app on N810 is magnitudes better | 22:04 |
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| lcuk | hiya noobmonk3y welcome back | 22:08 |
| lcuk | let me be the first to | 22:08 |
| noobmonk3y | hehe thanks! | 22:08 |
| * lcuk slaps you with a trout | 22:08 | |
| noobmonk3y | allthough still a little dazed from my stupidity this morning | 22:09 |
| lcuk | ? what did u do | 22:09 |
| pupnik | homemade parachute? | 22:09 |
| noobmonk3y | i have a comedy sized bump on my forehead | 22:09 |
| lcuk | pics.. | 22:09 |
| * frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout | 22:09 | |
| lcuk | and story | 22:09 |
| noobmonk3y | dropped my phone, bent down, smacked a fire extinguioher and knocked myself out | 22:09 |
| noobmonk3y | extinguisher* | 22:09 |
| hawai`i | Hahaha | 22:09 |
| noobmonk3y | lol no pics, head to sore atm! | 22:09 |
| lcuk | http://gadgetsteria.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/implied-facepalm.jpg | 22:10 |
| noobmonk3y | and all this at work lol | 22:10 |
| noobmonk3y | ooo i likie lcuk | 22:10 |
| hawai`i | that is quite possibly the funniest thing I have heard in a while | 22:10 |
| noobmonk3y | lol cheers hawai`i - i aim to please :P | 22:10 |
| noobmonk3y | allthough i need lots of rest lol | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, so it's an accident at work, you're covered by ensurance ;-P | 22:10 |
| noobmonk3y | lol doc - yeah right | 22:11 |
| noobmonk3y | i work for the health service, even funnier tbh | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 22:11 |
| noobmonk3y | tis only a bump :P - i'll still be as strange as i was before! | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn | 22:11 |
| noobmonk3y | :D | 22:11 |
| noobmonk3y | lcuk, - liked the liq maemo pythony stuff :P | 22:12 |
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| lcuk | noobmonk3y, it needs to be faster | 22:12 |
| noobmonk3y | lol bubbles or knightider? | 22:13 |
| lcuk | bubbles | 22:13 |
| noobmonk3y | mind if i use the knightrider as a keyboard light test? :D | 22:13 |
| lcuk | algo is really slow with lots of bubbles | 22:13 |
| * RST38h moos | 22:13 | |
| RST38h | lcuk | 22:13 |
| * noobmonk3y baa's | 22:13 | |
| lcuk | it does | 22:13 |
| lcuk | noobmonk3y, also during bubbles | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, the hostmode thread stalled completely - WTF? | 22:13 |
| lcuk | if you press keys | 22:13 |
| lcuk | the light underneath is on | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | monday? | 22:13 |
| * noobmonk3y will go lookie | 22:13 | |
| lcuk | it also effects the bubble sizes | 22:14 |
| lcuk | left hand side the bubbles grow | 22:14 |
| lcuk | right they shrink | 22:14 |
| noobmonk3y | lol forgot you need to be root to run it :| | 22:14 |
| lcuk | yes thats a drawback to any mechanism | 22:15 |
| noobmonk3y | meh, tried avoiding needing root in healthcheck :( | 22:15 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG has opened a thread on tmo with the keyboard stuff | 22:15 |
| lcuk | yeah | 22:15 |
| noobmonk3y | :D :D | 22:15 |
| lcuk | good idea | 22:15 |
| frals | noobmonk3y: can add the shellscript to sudoers :P | 22:16 |
| frals | noobmonk3y: tis what i do in fmms anyway ;o | 22:16 |
| noobmonk3y | frals, yeah seen other peoples example - it so far has just confused me | 22:16 |
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| noobmonk3y | and removes the "test easily and quickly" aspect of h/c :P | 22:16 |
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| noobmonk3y | i suppose i just dont quite understand how it works | 22:16 |
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| frals | adding 1 file and 1 line to that file in installscript doesnt make hc any harder to use? :P | 22:17 |
| frals | guess you have to update-sudoers in postinst/rm as well | 22:17 |
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| noobmonk3y | lol :P that kinda stuff just confuses me | 22:18 |
| noobmonk3y | i spose cos i use khertans py2deb | 22:18 |
| noobmonk3y | i have never seen those files | 22:18 |
| noobmonk3y | or i assume that is why i have never seen them | 22:18 |
| frals | fmms package has the sudoers file, can just rip it and change name :P | 22:18 |
| noobmonk3y | ooo think i have figured out the h/c looping now too | 22:18 |
| MohammadAG | oh noobmonk3y is alive | 22:19 |
| * noobmonk3y waves | 22:19 | |
| noobmonk3y | only just Mo | 22:19 |
| MohammadAG | thought you farted yourself to death | 22:19 |
| noobmonk3y | got a bruise the size of an apple on my forehead | 22:19 |
| * MohammadAG waves back | 22:19 | |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders if you can mount /sys with acl suport | 22:19 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | prolly not ;-P | 22:19 |
| noobmonk3y | :P | 22:19 |
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| MohammadAG | noobmonk3y, iPhones do that to you too | 22:20 |
| MohammadAG | wow hude lag | 22:21 |
| noobmonk3y | lol MohammadAG ! | 22:21 |
| noobmonk3y | yupper | 22:21 |
| noobmonk3y | s | 22:21 |
| wall[e] | after a reflash, my flickr sharing still crash controlpanel | 22:21 |
| noobmonk3y | :| flashed emmc too? | 22:21 |
| wall[e] | no | 22:21 |
| noobmonk3y | :D | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | what for? | 22:21 |
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| MohammadAG | did you purge the plugin? | 22:22 |
| * wall[e] is going to strace and delete everything open under /home/user | 22:22 | |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a better idea | 22:22 |
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| wall[e] | I did purge before I reflash | 22:22 |
| * noobmonk3y hmmmmmm's | 22:22 | |
| wall[e] | flash didn't format? | 22:23 |
| noobmonk3y | frals, removing the cellular stuff and gps fixes the healthcheck memory load stuff...... :| hmmmmmmm | 22:23 |
| * noobmonk3y blinks | 22:23 | |
| DocScrutinizer | skim ~user/.* and remove suspicious stuff ($suspicious = lsof -p `pidof plugin`) | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | noobmonk3y: don't blink, it might hurt | 22:24 |
| noobmonk3y | hehehe | 22:24 |
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| wall[e] | skim? | 22:26 |
| MohammadAG | milk | 22:27 |
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| noobmonk3y | so....... did i miss Pr1.3 while i was gone ;) ? hehe | 22:28 |
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| frals | noobmonk3y: the problem with h/c not closing i had is because you attach to gobject.MainLoop() (http://gitorious.org/healthcheck/healthcheck/blobs/master/healthcheck.py#line746) but if i decline to let the app use gps it seems it doesnt send any of the signals you listen to, hence the loop will never quit | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | someone's spamming devel with test debs... | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | testdeb1 testdeb2 testdeb3 | 22:29 |
| noobmonk3y | ahaaaaaaaaaa | 22:30 |
| MohammadAG | s/testdeb/debtest | 22:30 |
| frals | noobmonk3y: so it needs sanity check to see if you have access to the gps or not ;-) | 22:30 |
| noobmonk3y | ~ping MohammadAG | 22:30 |
| noobmonk3y | frals, doesn't it just mean i'm not closing the loop? | 22:31 |
| noobmonk3y | or waiting for it anyway | 22:31 |
| * MohammadAG pongs | 22:31 | |
| frals | yes you dont close the loop | 22:31 |
| frals | so your program is running forever | 22:31 |
| * noobmonk3y needs to figure out how to close it :P | 22:31 | |
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| noobmonk3y | checking value of loop on exit - if true - run data.quit() | 22:32 |
| noobmonk3y | maybe? | 22:32 |
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| frals | yeah just do .quit() on the loop | 22:32 |
| ruskie | hmm I have a few shortcuts that just run a cli app... don't care for the output or so... but each time I launch it it strats up a fullscreen window for a few seconds and then closes it... nothing in it | 22:32 |
| frals | quick way to fix it would be to make the loop a variable in the object instead of local so you can just do loop.quit() when user is closing the app | 22:33 |
| * noobmonk3y will brb 2 secs - shower, then will concentrate on hc | 22:33 | |
| * frals goes back to setting up his server | 22:33 | |
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| wall[e] | hmmm i think controlpanel will talk to something over dbus | 22:36 |
| wall[e] | so deleting any strace file woultn' work | 22:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | Fuskie: look at queen beecon | 22:37 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: | 22:37 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/queen-beecon/0.1.4/ | 22:37 |
| wall[e] | ~bug 10089 | 22:38 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10089 Cannot create Flickr sharing account: "Internal error. Application 'Settings' closed." | 22:38 |
| tybollt | lala? | 22:38 |
| ruskie | SpeedEvil, hmm why are you suggesting that? | 22:38 |
| wall[e] | nothing looks like a solution :S | 22:38 |
| ruskie | SpeedEvil, hmm it is an option true... but I would prefer to just have normal shortcuts | 22:39 |
| wall[e] | anyone here using qt ecma script binding? | 22:40 |
| * wall[e] wants to stay away from py | 22:41 | |
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| anger_ | hi | 22:41 |
| anger_ | i have some problems with sync with exchange | 22:41 |
| anger_ | I believe it's a certificate issue | 22:42 |
| wall[e] | i think so many people have that problem | 22:42 |
| wall[e] | sync is buggy | 22:42 |
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| wall[e] | any improvement in hk version? | 22:42 |
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| anger_ | yeah, noticed from the discussions | 22:43 |
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| anger_ | our exchange server seems to have GlobalSign Root CA which is different from the one that is shipped with n900... | 22:43 |
| wall[e] | i goes with enminig something | 22:43 |
| wall[e] | for calendar | 22:43 |
| wall[e] | google calendar | 22:43 |
| wall[e] | ok | 22:44 |
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| anger_ | I see from the logs that curl is exiting with status 51... | 22:45 |
| anger_ | which is CURLE_PEER_FAILED_VERIFICATION | 22:46 |
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| anger_ | but I suppose there isn't anything I can do for thi`s? | 22:46 |
| wall[e] | oh, reread that bug his twitpic solve it | 22:46 |
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| anger_ | ?? | 22:46 |
| wall[e] | (bug 10089) | 22:47 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10089 Cannot create Flickr sharing account: "Internal error. Application 'Settings' closed." | 22:47 |
| frals | hrhr, copied the sysinfo.pl which i run on my servers to my n900 and it worked almost perfectly ;D | 22:49 |
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| Cabletwitch | Evening. | 22:50 |
| Cabletwitch | I've been pondering this phantom file issue of mine... the fact that nothing shows up in the file manager should mean there are no rogue files, right? | 22:52 |
| Cabletwitch | So the issue is with whatever list the media player keeps of various files it finds. Only even doing that hard reset doesnt seem to sorting itself out. | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | rogue files? | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | The media player keeps no list | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | It's the tracker that does that | 22:53 |
| Cabletwitch | The 5000-odd media files it belives are still there. | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | delete ~/cache/tracker/* (IIRC) | 22:54 |
| SpeedEvil | There is probably a 'right' way to do this | 22:54 |
| Cabletwitch | Ok, then my next question... how does one delete something in the command line? | 22:54 |
| Cabletwitch | Right now, the 'right' way is anything that'll work :O) | 22:55 |
| ShadowJK | iiec the proper way is 'tracker-processes -r' | 22:56 |
| ShadowJK | iirc* | 22:56 |
| SpeedEvil | install rootsh | 22:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | actually - just terminal will do, as the files are owned by user | 22:56 |
| ShadowJK | I did it that way, it took hours to reindex and thumbnail all the video again :) | 22:56 |
| Cabletwitch | MohammedAG mentiond the --hard-reset, which I've tried. | 22:56 |
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| chadi | Doesn't anyone want to use skype via proxy, or can confirm that this really does not work? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10062 | 22:56 |
| povbot | Bug 10062: Skype doesn't use network connection proxy settings | 22:56 |
| Cabletwitch | Not tried just -r though. | 22:57 |
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| Cabletwitch | Hmm, same results as the hard reset. Although it does mention in both cases some missing files. | 22:58 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 22:59 |
| Cabletwitch | No good, its still listing the phantom files. | 22:59 |
| noobmonk3y | brb | 22:59 |
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| * timeless_mbp sighs | 23:00 | |
| timeless_mbp | MfE doesn't quite get proxy exceptions right | 23:00 |
| * timeless_mbp needs to file a bug | 23:00 | |
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| * Cabletwitch bangs his head gently on the desk | 23:02 | |
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| Cabletwitch | The user space is seperte from where the filesystem is kept, right? | 23:04 |
| frals | ~curse random users | 23:04 |
| frals | awesome, someone voted fmms down and didnt even say why | 23:05 |
| frals | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/fmms/1.0.3/ | 23:05 |
| frals | \o/ | 23:05 |
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| Cabletwitch | So if all else fails, I could format the damn thing and just shove what I need back on? | 23:05 |
| anger_ | frals: you working with fmms? | 23:06 |
| frals | yes | 23:06 |
| anger_ | should it work when I use wlan? | 23:06 |
| Cabletwitch | Or I could xray the bloody thing and laugh manicly. | 23:06 |
| anger_ | haven't found the right settings yet... | 23:06 |
| frals | unless you use havoc mode, no | 23:06 |
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| lcuk | Cabletwitch, n900 xrays pictures are on talk.maemo.org | 23:07 |
| anger_ | have to try it again | 23:07 |
| Cabletwitch | lcuk: I'm on about xraying it until its melting. Might not make the problem go away though. | 23:08 |
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| frals | anger_: connect manually to the MMS APN before sending and it should work, granted settings are correct | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: hello Mr Ian Stirling ;-) | 23:09 |
| Cabletwitch | Eh, too tired to think more about this right now. | 23:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: http://www.mwkn.net/2010/19/download.html | 23:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | Oh - right. | 23:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd been wondering wehre the blog reference had come from - that makes sense. | 23:11 |
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| GAN900 | lol | 23:14 |
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| alterego | Just two more stages to do .. | 23:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: For future reference - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Polar-Bears-Ian-Stirling/dp/047208108X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273522955&sr=8-1 I did not write this. | 23:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | (though I did once get an offer to go on a polar exploration trip by someone who thought I did) | 23:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | not interested? | 23:23 |
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| anger_ | frals: will have to test it later, will ask you again if there are still problems :) | 23:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - There was the whole not actually knowing anything about polar bears that was a bit of a problem. | 23:24 |
| frals | alright :) | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: there seems just one thing you need to know: keep out of reach of their teeth :-P | 23:25 |
| timeless_mbp | Jaffa / GeneralAntilles: we've mentioned instances of mirophones and micorophones, right? | 23:26 |
| timeless_mbp | recently i encountered an instance of microhones in the wild :o | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Anyway - they are all vegetarians. http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41906000/jpg/_41906050_polarbear_416_ap.jpg | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: if only those polar bears were living near equator rather than pole XP | 23:27 |
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| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, technology just keeps having to invent new words for all of its cool stuff, I suppose. | 23:28 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 23:28 | |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders who's editor of mwkn | 23:28 | |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: jaffa/gan | 23:29 |
| frals | according to http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Weekly_News ;) | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | tzz | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 23:30 |
| tybollt | pr | 23:31 |
| tybollt | \o/ | 23:32 |
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| lcuk | question: does mplayer work in portrait using its xv driver? | 23:35 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, you raaang? :P | 23:40 |
| tybollt | dang, you rang | 23:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: I did? | 23:44 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, mwkn editors. | 23:44 |
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| * DocScrutinizer sending the 519 groupies crowing down the pavement to GAN900 | 23:45 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | funny part I polished my tmo/garage-profile a lil bit today | 23:47 |
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| Macer | is it me or does a tmob smartphone plan seem to have less lag than an android plan? | 23:50 |
| mikki-kun | hm, how do i actually install local .deb's if i have em? | 23:50 |
| Macer | dpkg -i foo.deb | 23:50 |
| mikki-kun | thanks :) | 23:51 |
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