IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-04-13

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MohammadAGE0x, out of space :)00:01
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E0xMohammadAG: oh heh00:02
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* V13 is tempted to start a thread "speculation about the next tablet (N910) and its release date"00:05
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rm_youanyone know if there is a more up to date version of something like MaemoVMWare somewhere? the one on garage says it is the final release of 1.0 but only has Maemo5 SDK Beta 200:07
inzV13, with clearly photoshopped "leaked" images?00:07
V13inz.. no... just some fud :)00:07
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rm_yousince I still don't have my replacement n900 but am getting impatient, i want to start my project now on the VM :P00:07
MohammadAGV13, I'll come over and kill you :P00:07
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V13rm_you there is latest SDK which is not beta.00:08
V13rm_you: http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/00:08
rm_youSo is there a VMWare image that includes that? or is MaemoVMWare on garage the best I can do?00:08
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V13this one i'm using and it is *not* beta.00:08
rm_youhrm00:08
rm_youit says it is, odd00:08
V13it is the final which can then be upgraded...00:09
V13"Maemo SDK Virtual Images, 1.0 final"00:09
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rm_youright00:09
rm_youbut the changelog says it includes Beta 200:09
V13Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z - 1693332116 - ut-of-box ready Maemo Final Fremantle 5.0 and Diablo 4.1.2 SDK and Eclipse IDE Virtual Image with Ubuntu Intrepid 8.10 Desktop (7-zip compressed)00:09
rm_you<_<00:09
rm_youalright yeah, the downloads agreement says that, i see now00:10
rm_youthey must just need to update the site00:10
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V13ok... this 1.7GHz may be fake00:20
V13a) it has an alarm set00:20
V13b) it has 20h uptime00:20
V13c) the fan seems still00:20
V13d) the pwm connector of the fun seems to be not connected and instead just sit under n90000:20
MohammadAGit is fake00:20
SpeedEvil1 it is fake00:21
javispedro  it is fake00:21
MohammadAGdon't bother00:21
MohammadAGhe said it's fake00:21
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* Shapeshifter is startled that there's no #maemo-offtopic00:21
Shapeshifterwhere does all the silly talk go to? (t.m.o.? :P)00:21
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V13:)00:22
dubziiV13 check this one out xD http://netbookhelden.de/sonderimg/7700mhz.jpg00:22
V13lol :)))00:22
javispedrof.m.o ate my post!00:22
javispedroer.. f.m.c00:22
toggles_wlol00:22
* dottedmag .oO(f.m.l.)00:23
javispedroforum.meego.com you pervert00:23
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V13so.. talk was replaced with forum, maemo with meego and org with com...00:24
V13what all these say ?00:24
tripzerozomg00:24
tripzero7700MHz eh?00:25
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V13MohammadAG, SpeedEvil1, javispedro: looking at your "it is fake" words... you would make a good triplet... for singing...00:26
javispedrono, you should join and make it a quartet00:27
* Shapeshifter just overclocked his n900 to 1.21jiggowatts00:27
V13ok.. we need another one and go play basket...00:27
* Shapeshifter also watched all three back to the future parts today00:27
Shapeshifter;)00:27
tripzerolol, nice00:27
V13killed a vampire00:28
V13shoot an alien00:28
V13brought peace...00:28
tremnite all, sweet dreams00:28
pupnik_nii00:28
V13bb00:28
V13cured cancer00:29
V13cured aids00:29
pupnik_quartet would be a fun multiplayer to recreate00:29
V13invented time travel00:29
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MohammadAGhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=607589#post607589 :)00:44
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* javispedro notes Xarchiver00:46
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MohammadAGjavispedro, Xarchiver?00:47
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javispedrothe one that was available for diablo00:47
MohammadAGnever seen it00:49
javispedrowell, it was the _only_ one.... :P00:49
V13[not so] hype: Based on this: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=544861&postcount=3 don't you assume that pr1.2 will support live wallpapers?00:50
MohammadAGV13, it's already working...00:50
V13ok .. the bug clears it:  Yes, this live homescreen will 'fix' this bug. Will be available in pr1.2.00:50
V13MohammadAG: with xcompmgr ?00:51
MohammadAGnot sure00:51
MohammadAGV13, install my package and see for your self :)00:51
MohammadAG(it will be broken for blurred backgrounds, but it works)00:52
V13i'll wait :)00:52
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Treibholzhmm, any idea how to tickle the calendar-widget to reload the calendardb?00:58
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javispedroV13: afaik, it's hildon-desktop specific, custom protocol. not using xcompmgr01:06
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JakubSis there widget/application to show network throughput as graph?01:10
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JakubSfor example line chart with upload and download updated every x seconds01:11
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jacekowskioO01:13
jacekowskigoogle.pl is in black and white01:13
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MohammadAGfile-roller packaged :)01:16
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w00t_any facebrick users: take a look at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49866 please :)01:48
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GAN900lol, chevrolette.com forces the iPad to to mobile version01:55
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* Treibholz hasn't experienced any website, that forced me to the mobile version01:57
Treibholzwith the n90001:57
lcukw00t_, just put the damned poll somewhere in the app itself ;)01:58
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greenflyw00t_: couldn't the sorting for the messages be a configurable option?01:58
lcukthere is no right or wrong ordering, merely what people feel is right01:58
lcukmake the app configurable and the problem is gone01:58
greenfly^^01:59
w00t_'make it an option' is always an option, but the value of sensible defaults is something which is often not considered02:00
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crashanddieyo bitches02:00
w00t_a keyboard that defaults to dvorak with an option to go to qwerty will probably have a higher number of frustrated users by default (even if it does have a niche appeal)02:00
lcukyou are scary02:00
lcukw00t_ :) see my post02:01
w00t_lcuk: we are on the same wavelength as ever02:01
w00t_;)02:01
* lcuk smiles02:01
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w00t_btw I do have some limited ideas about in-application polling.. we'll see02:01
w00t_:P02:01
w00t_(if this works, I plan on doing it more often)02:02
lcukpolling hte server?02:02
pupnikdvorak = placebo02:02
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lcukdoes the website poll, or use ajax02:02
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kevloralhello all02:08
tripzerosup02:08
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crashanddielcuk: what's the difference between polling and ajax?02:19
lardmannight all!02:21
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GAN900What happened to fiasco-flasher?02:22
lcukajax holds a connection doesnt it02:24
MohammadAG_GAN900, it's there for some users02:24
MohammadAG_not me though02:25
GAN900Nor me02:25
GAN900What the hell02:25
GAN900flasher's there02:25
MohammadAG_same02:25
GAN900"Suitable USB device not found"02:25
GAN900The whole regional firmware thing is really irritating.02:25
MohammadAG_use fiasco-image-update02:25
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crashanddielcuk: nope02:29
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crashanddielcuk: ajax simply means that the webpage (or underlying code) talks to the webserver after the initial page load02:30
lcukso, it polls?02:30
crashanddieasynchronous javascript and xml02:30
crashanddiedoesn't matter whether it polls or not02:30
crashanddiecould do either, still be java02:31
lcukor it has a connection which waits for stuff to pop out02:31
lcukit matters02:31
lcukbecause polling == bad02:31
crashanddies/java/ajax/02:31
infobotcrashanddie meant: could do either, still be ajax02:31
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crashanddielcuk: usually a well-designed ajax app would only request info from the server upon user events02:31
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crashanddiebut again, it can be polling if required, or continuous. webchat.freenode.net is a continuous connection, mail.google.com uses polling and user-generated events02:34
lcukyou sure it polls?  it sits with a connection most of the time02:35
crashanddienha, if you shut down google chat there shouldn't be a connection02:35
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crashanddiethough it's been a while since I looked into it, so they may have changed the rules02:37
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lcukhow often do you poll!02:38
pupnikregularly. with metamucil02:39
lcukevery second would cause meltdown every minute would be too slow for people02:39
lcukhaha02:39
* MohammadAG_ knows the package he uploaded is going to fail02:44
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MohammadAG_wow I hit upload and got disconnected here02:44
TomaszDwell let that be a lesson to you02:46
MohammadAG_lol02:46
TomaszD;)02:46
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* MohammadAG_ gives it another go02:49
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MohammadAG_grrr02:52
MohammadAG_~curse autobuilder02:52
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, autobuilder !02:52
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Only-OneHi friends, I invite you to a new network of mIRC, /s -m irc.joinirc.org [join #CService for HELP]02:58
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haltdefoh god02:58
MohammadAG_:/02:58
* MohammadAG_ wonders why they don't just gline bots02:59
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pupnikwonderful to see such nice emus lately03:00
MohammadAGindeed :)03:01
* MohammadAG gives the autobuilder another chance03:01
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MohammadAGdoes anyone know what the autobuilder is running on?03:03
MohammadAGit seems to be a bit slow.03:04
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* MohammadAG failed, once again03:06
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MohammadAG# [extras-builds] [fremantle]: file-roller 2.24.3-1maemo1 FAILED   Maemo Extras Builder  :(03:07
jacekowskiwhat would be the best approach to disabling noexec on mmc?03:09
jacekowskiif i would just remount it manualy03:10
jacekowskiis there something watching it and making sure that it's mounted with noexec?03:10
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MohammadAGnot that I know of03:10
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MohammadAGjust edited the file that generates fstab at startup03:11
MohammadAGedit*03:11
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dmj726_n900my scratchbox won't update.  Is this a 1.2 issue?03:14
MohammadAGno...03:14
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MohammadAGThe 1.2 scratchbox was released last month, so it won't have issues03:15
MohammadAGYES!03:15
MohammadAGfile-roller built in the autobuilder03:16
crashanddielcuk: 3 minutes is enough for most people03:16
dmj726_n900...this is a pre 1.2 scratchbox...updates should just work03:16
crashanddielcuk: for email anyway, you can go up to 5 minutes03:16
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lcukcrashanddie, many ajax systems update in realtime03:19
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crashanddielcuk: sure you can have a low-resource pipe that serves as an event trigger (basically poor-man's push)03:20
crashanddieThough that requires specific software that most webhosts wouldn't allow03:20
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MohammadAGerrordeveloper, any tmo mods here?03:22
crashanddieMohammadAG: just submit a report03:22
MohammadAGcrashanddie, I just want the title for my thread to be changed03:22
crashanddiesubmit a report03:22
MohammadAGwouldn't a report just waste their time?03:22
MohammadAGk03:22
crashanddieno03:22
crashanddieYou'd be amazed at the stupid reports we get03:23
DocScrutinizeryoyoyo03:23
MohammadAGlol I'm a mod on another site, but we don't get stupid reports03:23
MohammadAG(a lot) :P03:23
MohammadAGhey DocScrutinizer03:23
crashanddieMohammadAG: do you have as many visitors as TMO?03:23
MohammadAGcrashanddie, well no, but most of the users on TMO just troll :/03:24
DocScrutinizeryep03:24
DocScrutinizerwell, actually most of them probably don't even recognize they are trolling03:25
MohammadAGlol good point03:25
crashanddie"Off Topic lacks a controversial thread"03:26
crashanddiefuck that03:26
tripzerolol03:26
MohammadAGcrashanddie, and I'm assuming a user starts spamming you by PM if you give them an infraction?03:27
crashanddie"Nokia shoukd consider this design" <-- controversial; "Getting Around the GPL" <-- controversial; "Whatever Apple touch, it turns gold" <-- controversial; "A little something for Apple haters." <-- controversial... do I need to continue?03:27
DocScrutinizera big fat BOLD 47pt warning with a link to http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html for sure wouldn't hurt03:27
MohammadAGcrashanddie, no you don't lol03:27
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MohammadAGdoes Nokia even read tmo?03:28
crashanddieMohammadAG: yes, and I quit moderation for that reason03:28
* MohammadAG really really doubts that03:28
crashanddieMohammadAG: I think the only one who endures it is Quim03:28
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MohammadAGwell I turned off Private messaging for my account once03:29
MohammadAGdidn't have the time to argue so I replied and turned it off03:29
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, who's Quim? can't seem to find him on tmo03:30
crashanddieqgil03:30
MohammadAGhe's a mod?03:30
MohammadAGit doesn't say that under his nick for some reason...03:31
crashanddieNo, he resigned from moderation as well03:31
DocScrutinizerhe's nokianized03:31
MohammadAGwow03:31
crashanddiebecause people were saying it was a conspiracy and conflict of interest for him to be a moderator as he is a nokia employee03:31
MohammadAGtwo mods resigned?03:31
crashanddiewankers if you ask me, the guy has the patience of a holy person03:32
crashanddieMohammadAG: feel free to offer your services as a mod03:32
crashanddieMohammadAG: we need more mods03:32
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: wtf, this can't be true. Conflict of Interests when a Nokia employee is moderating a Nokia forum?03:32
MohammadAGerrordeveloper, you don't make it sound as a good thing :p03:32
crashanddieMohammadAG: though if you don't feel like taking the abuse, I suggest you start a discussion to setup clear rules around moderation tasks03:33
* DocScrutinizer checks his ignorelist...03:33
crashanddieMohammadAG: it would be good if moderators knew what foot they can stand on. At the moment it's free for all, we just dump most of the things we do in a specific moderator forum (OMFG, THE MODS HAVE A PRIVATE FORUM, CONSPIRACYYYY) in order to cover our asses03:34
MohammadAGcrashanddie, why don't you have a moderators channel?03:35
crashanddiebecause we're in too different timezones, wouldn't help03:35
dmj726_n900moderating can be hard, especially in a high noise forum like tmo.03:35
MohammadAGI barely use the mods section on the site I moderate03:35
crashanddieI'm the only mod in Asia/Pacific, we have a couple of mods in the US, and a couple in Europe (or maybe a handful in Europe)03:36
crashanddieplus the council has the right to see/post in the mod forum so that they can see what's happening03:36
dmj726_n900so many threads about apple crud that it's a bit hard to the the awesome threads about development.03:36
MohammadAGand one from russia03:36
MohammadAGlooking @ http://talk.maemo.org/showgroups.php03:36
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crashanddieMohammadAG: so really, the mod channel would only be for specific people, plus, texrat and qole never come to IRC, etc03:37
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, why does the site have only 2 super moderators?03:38
crashanddiebecause supermod is a tough position03:38
crashanddieIt's better to have someone focus on 2 or 3 forums than be all over the place03:38
crashanddieusually people have an interest in only one or two forums anyway03:39
crashanddie(applications, n800, community, etc)03:39
crashanddieI seem to remember that mods can become supermods after they reach 500 posts03:39
crashanddiebut that may have changed03:39
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DocScrutinizerthat sounds like a great idea anyway, to elect those with many posts for mods :-P03:40
dmj726_n900grr...broken scratchbox03:41
* GeneralAntilles is out for SF.03:41
MohammadAGSymbian Freak? :P03:41
ds3SF?03:41
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GeneralAntillesLinux Foundation Collaboration Summit03:41
DocScrutinizersourceforge, sience fiction?03:41
ds3ah03:41
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: have fun, enjoy!03:42
ds3have fun, and bring a raincoat03:42
MohammadAGcrashanddie, PM'd you the rules I agreed to03:42
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: no, moderators who get to 500 posts become supermods03:42
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: not regular users03:42
MohammadAGnot sure if you had to do the same when you got the mods position03:42
crashanddienope03:42
crashanddiethough those rules are pretty laughable, and quite standard bullshit you get on low-end think-you-re-though-forums03:43
crashanddieno offense03:43
GeneralAntillesds3, lot colder than it is here at the moment. :(03:43
MohammadAGnone taken :)03:43
crashanddieMohammadAG: if you want to become a moderator on TMO, you just post to the moderator thread, or send a PM to Reggie. He looks at your previous posts, and if you're not a troll and seemingly helpful, you get the rights03:43
ds3GA: where is here?03:44
MohammadAGnot sure about it03:44
GeneralAntillesds3, Florida03:44
MohammadAGtwo mods resigned, it doesn't sound like a good position03:44
crashanddieMohammadAG: the paragraph about "proper English" is really laughable in that list, considering that there's spelling mistakes all over the paragraph :P03:44
DocScrutinizerhehehe03:44
ds3GA: yes, indeed... probally even wetter03:44
MohammadAGand I don't give a **** about the forum title, I don't moderate so that I can have the power to do it03:44
MohammadAGcrashanddie, I never read the whole thing anyways :P03:45
MohammadAGI just followed what the other mods did03:45
crashanddiemy point exactly03:45
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MohammadAGbut it works well03:45
MohammadAGwe never have arguments03:45
crashanddieWhat TMO needs is rulebook, not a "Thou shalt not abuseth thy powerz"03:45
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MohammadAGlol03:46
MohammadAGtmo needs a database nuke tbh :)03:46
DocScrutinizerouch03:46
crashanddieMohammadAG: the disciplinary actions section is excellent though, that's really what we need03:46
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crashanddieMohammadAG: tailor that for TMO, and submit it for review in Community03:48
crashanddieMohammadAG: I'm serious, you'd be doing the mods a huge favour03:48
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, will do :)03:49
MohammadAGfile-roller archive manager now in extras-devel http://maemo.org/packages/view/file-roller/ :)03:50
dmj726_n900MohammadAG: great!03:50
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MohammadAGI seriously can't believe how stupid the app manager icon thing can be03:56
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MohammadAGI'm not manually adding a space 400 times03:56
DocScrutinizeruh?03:56
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging#Displaying_an_icon_in_the_Application_Manager_next_to_your_package03:57
MohammadAG"Add a space in front of every line of the encoded icon "03:57
MohammadAGsurely there's an easier way to do it...03:57
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DocScrutinizerLOL03:58
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timeless_mbpMohammadAG: perl is your friend03:58
Guest75878crap03:58
MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, what if I don't know perl lol03:58
DocScrutinizersed03:58
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pupnikanybody here try the lenovo x100e?04:00
MohammadAGDone04:02
MohammadAG400 lines04:02
* MohammadAG likes his coordination :)04:02
DocScrutinizerhaha04:02
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: cat myfile|sed 's/^/ /' >myfile_edited04:06
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rm_youanyone worked any further on barcode libs for n900?04:09
MohammadAGthanks DocScrutinizer, already done it manually though (no really), next time :)04:09
rm_youAm looking at utilizing them soon04:09
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tgalalhow do we write a gtk app to run in portrait by default ?04:16
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dmj726_n900clutter-box2d is cool04:20
MohammadAGwhat's that?04:20
pupnikdo box2d sprites draw with opengl es?04:21
dmj726_n900it's clutter plus a physics engine.04:22
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dmj726_n900clutter-box2d doesn't work properly in scratchbox though04:43
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rm_yougrrr internet04:51
MohammadAGit's 8 mins till 5 AM, and I'm fixing a package...04:52
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MohammadAGfixed some bugs in archive manager04:58
MohammadAGif you can call them bugs...04:58
MohammadAGnight :)04:58
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bullet`hello all05:25
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crashanddiehey bullet`05:27
bullet`how is it going crashanddie ... any interesting news about maemo?05:28
crashanddiebullet`: www.mwkn.net05:28
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bullet`hey u know james ghosling left oracle ..  muat have been a sad time for him ..05:28
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crashanddiebullet`: not necessarily05:40
crashanddiebullet`: I'm surprised he stayed in the first place to be honest. Anyone believing that Oracle wouldn't fundamentally change Sun was naive...05:41
bullet`yea05:41
crashanddiebullet`: if only he could write a new language that we could specialise in for the next 15 years ;)05:42
bullet`still he did so much for the company, all his lifes work, and day u have to leave ..05:42
crashanddiebullet`: leaving is a good thing05:42
bullet`hmm05:42
crashanddiebullet`: the best people change companies every 4-5 years05:43
crashanddiemaximum05:43
crashanddieI would say 3 years is the average for excellent people who add a lot to a company05:43
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bullet`well, i know for myself, what u said is true, but i cannot imagine how does it feel to the person who contributes to the level which he did ..05:45
bullet`doesnt it become kind of a home to u at that level of contribution ..05:45
bullet`leaving in 3 years05:46
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crashanddiespell out your words lol... you have a full keyboard05:46
crashanddieYeah, I guess that it becomes your baby after a while, so that's probably why he stayed with Sun for so long, no doubt. But that's more the exception than the rule05:47
bullet`yea05:47
crashanddiePlus, having new blood can only be beneficial to Java -- Java isn't looking too good lately05:47
bullet`sorry for the short letters i write for words .. these r the manners that ppl keep on reminding me .. will have to get used to it ..05:48
crashanddieno, I won't05:48
crashanddiewrite fully or don't05:48
bullet`i cant05:49
bullet`i will try thats all i can say05:49
crashanddiethanks, much appreciated05:49
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slingris there an official launch date for pr1.2?05:52
crashanddieno05:52
bullet`nope05:52
crashanddie~ping05:52
infobot~pong05:52
bullet`whats the used of this ping crashanddie ?05:52
bullet`use*05:52
crashanddieto see how long it takes for my messages to reach the server and back05:53
slingri have been out of the maemo scene for awhile.  is there a n average wait time from when the sdk is released to when end users see a firmware update usually? couple months maybe?05:53
crashanddieslingr: usually a lot shorter than that05:53
crashanddieslingr: not that I paid particular attention, but I don't remember the SDK being out a long time before the public release05:53
slingrawesome.  i'm very excited :)05:53
bullet`good good05:53
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crashanddieslingr: that's why a lot of people are crying wolf every 20 minutes, but really it could be today as much as it could be 2 weeks from now -- nobody knows.05:54
slingrunderstandable05:54
bullet`crashanddie, what OS do u primarily use ?05:54
bullet`you*05:54
crashanddieOSX at home, Windows at work (desktop), zLinux (mainframe)  and Solaris as dev environments05:54
bullet`and you do maemo development right ?05:55
crashanddienot in my day job05:55
bullet`ok05:55
crashanddiewould love to though -- if anyone has a job ;)05:55
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bullet`but do u do maemo development on linux as well as mac ?05:56
crashanddiebullet`: depends the language used05:57
crashanddiebullet`: when it's compiled language, I use a Linux VM on the Mac, when it's an interpreted language I use the Mac directly.05:57
bullet`i want to know, if one is doing maemo development, how different is the experience if he keeps shifting linux and mac. What i assume is it should be pretty similar since the qt creator and al the tools seems similar on all platforms05:58
crashanddiewell, if you use Qt with an interpreted language (PyQt or PySide), it's fairly easy.05:58
crashanddieyou can easily develop your app on any platform, and then there's a minimal effort to port it (as long as the app doesn't use platform-specific features, gps or such)05:59
crashanddieIf however you're writing C/C++ apps, I would recommend working on Linux with scratchbox, you depend on so many specific libraries and platform-specifics that the porting effort would be mad and no provide anything good.06:00
bullet`and what about c++, if all the qt stuff is used and its left to qt how it uses the platform underneath, is that even possible ..06:00
bullet`how much of a % of that coudl be done06:00
luke-jrcrashanddie: huh? C is C06:01
crashanddiewell, a big percentage, but you still need to compile it anyway06:01
luke-jrC doesn't require porting :D06:01
bullet`oh, while talking to you i myself forgot i was asking questions related to develping for maemo, not other platforms (mac/win/nix)06:01
luke-jrif you write it in pure Qt, you should be good too06:01
crashanddieluke-jr: true, but I'm talking about the platform behaviour, such as threading, IPC, and such which differ slightly, don't they?06:02
luke-jrbullet`: programs should not be developed *for* a specific platform06:02
luke-jrbullet`: they should be platform-independent and run anywhere you compile them06:02
bullet`so i guess if u r going to be developing for maemo in qt, regardless of nix/win/mac, its should be a similar experience. Liek save the project at one place in nix, open it in mac or windows, build for mameo and deploy ?06:02
crashanddieluke-jr: also, window behaviour would be quite different, and would need to be adapted quite significantly06:02
luke-jrcrashanddie: C doesn't define threading/IPC06:02
crashanddieluke-jr: no, but the platforms libs do06:02
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crashanddieluke-jr: I'm not familiar with it, but pretty sure they're seriously different on mac/linux06:03
luke-jrhence the qualifier 'pure' on C :)06:03
bullet`c doesnt define a lot as far as i have read on the internet06:03
bullet`threading being one of it06:03
dmj726_n900programs should try to be cross platform, but there are cases where they would be silly.06:03
crashanddieluke-jr~= +5 pedantic06:03
luke-jrthreading isn't usually necessary06:03
bullet`well06:03
dmj726_n900like a gps app on my desktop.06:03
luke-jrdmj726_n900: there's no reason to be platform-dependent in a Qt app06:03
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bullet`u r saying htat in the age where now we have like 8 or 12 cores on one desktop machine ?06:04
luke-jrsure06:04
luke-jrhow often do you have a single process running? ;p06:04
bullet`but i get it for maemo though06:04
luke-jrin any case, I don't have a single multi-core system06:04
crashanddiebullet`: he's poor and angry, don't mind him :P06:05
luke-jrlol06:05
luke-jrI don't need one either :)06:05
luke-jrmy Athlon64 3200+ keeps up06:05
crashanddiehe's still thinking of C-89, monolithic kernels and code organised through #ifdef06:05
luke-jr...06:05
luke-jrI don't know C < 9906:05
frosty`lol06:05
crashanddiecue: "Get off my lawn"06:05
luke-jralso, Linux is monolithic06:06
dmj726_n900what about a qt interface to manage ext filesystems?06:06
luke-jrdmj726_n900: no reason that needs to be platform dependent :P06:06
crashanddieabstraction creates overhead06:06
dmj726_n900or something similarly linux specific.06:06
crashanddieuseless abstraction creates stupid programs06:07
luke-jrext isn't Linux specific06:07
luke-jryou can use it on Windows ;)06:07
luke-jrafaik Android supports ext still06:07
crashanddieand for all intents and purposes, Android is Linux06:07
dmj726_n900that said, I'm not suggesting actively making anything platfom specific, just where it makes sense to enssure it vs not worry about it.06:07
luke-jrcrashanddie: didn't they make the fork official?06:07
dmj726_n900no, android just doesn't have a gnu userland06:08
bullet`android is not linux i heard06:08
crashanddiewell, running off Linux, it's a VM that could run on anything, but the day they separate the VM from the baselayer, all those specifics will fly out of the window, and you can be sure ext will go too.06:08
luke-jrcrashanddie: no, I mean literally...06:08
bullet`i mean it does use the kernel, but i heard a lot of imp stuff is missing which make the porting apps diff to android06:08
dmj726_n900android is a linux kernal and a java vm.06:08
bullet`unlike maemo06:08
luke-jrbullet`: that's unrelated; Android isn't X1106:09
dmj726_n900maemo has a gnu debian userland06:09
crashanddieanyway, useless thread06:09
timeless_mbpdmj726_n900: err06:09
luke-jrAndroid included a fork of Linux06:09
timeless_mbpbusybox is hardly debian userland06:09
luke-jrGoogle doesn't want to merge to mainline; mainline doesn't want Google's stuff06:09
dmj726_n900(simplification)06:09
luke-jrlast I heard they officially split ways06:09
bullet`i dont know official or intentionaly, but they couldnt maintain stuff in the kernel, and kernel devs removed their contributions .. what i read in the greg's blog (i think thats his name)06:10
luke-jrGoogle reinvented some Linux feature as "wakelocks" and mainline doesn't want the duplicate functionality06:11
dmj726_n900I think the split was that the most recent kernel wasn't compatible, and didn't have android changes, not any real "we're forking" thing.06:11
luke-jrall drivers are affected by it06:11
crashanddiewow, "greg's blog" that's going to be easy to find ;)06:11
bullet`heheh06:11
bullet`greg kroah06:11
luke-jrLinux Monkey something06:11
bullet`that kernel maintainer !!06:11
bullet`:)06:11
luke-jrLinux Kernel Monkey Log06:11
timeless_mbphttp://www.google.com/search?q=greg%20android%20blog&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-806:11
bullet`yea that one :)06:12
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: really hard… i'm feeling lucky ^06:12
dmj726_n900ext4 is not functional at all on windows06:12
luke-jrext4 is useless imo06:12
luke-jr:p06:12
luke-jrext3 does everything I need fine06:12
bullet`http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=b0a0ccfad85b3657fe999805df65f5cfe634ab8a06:12
bullet`this is the post06:12
luke-jrexcept SD stuff06:12
bullet`ooopss06:12
bullet`wrong one06:13
bullet`sorry06:13
luke-jrbut ext4 doesn't improve that06:13
dmj726_n900...and the other exts are only kindof there06:13
bullet`http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/android-kernel-problems.html?seemore=y06:13
dmj726_n900that's why I have so many ntfs partitions06:13
bullet`anyway06:13
dmj726_n900give me a real file system over ntfs any day.06:14
bullet`anyone knows whats up with the next version of c++ .. tey were calling it .. c zero or something ?06:14
crashanddietimeless_mbp: I'm not lucky :P06:14
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luke-jrbullet`: it *was* called "C++ 0x" for development06:14
luke-jrassuming it was going to become "C++ 09" or such (year)06:14
bullet`hmm06:15
luke-jrbut probably will be C++ 2010 or so now06:15
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crashanddieI love how they said C++0x was "Almost going to be 100% compatible with old C++"06:16
crashanddieSo... 99%?06:17
crashanddie98%?06:17
crashanddieWhat's "Almost 100%"06:17
crashanddie?06:17
godrikguys I got a problem with maemo mapper06:17
luke-jr99.999999999999999999%06:17
godrikit seems that the maps I got from open street map are off06:17
crashanddieluke-jr: "Everything is compatible, except for one thing, one character. Semicolon"06:17
godrikI mean that the track I got from my gps do not correspond to the right street at all06:18
crashanddiegodrik: define:"at all"06:18
godrikI uploaded the tracks to osm to check them and they were fine there06:18
crashanddiegodrik: 10m difference, or 20km?06:18
godrikcrashanddie: 6Km06:18
godrikperhaps 1006:18
crashanddiesounds like your maps are diff'd06:19
crashanddiehave you tried turning it off and on again?06:19
crashanddieI mean, download again?06:19
godrikI mv-ed the database file and got the same problem06:19
godrikI am checking using an other source (google street) at the moment06:19
crashanddieluke-jr: std::vector<T>&& woop dee fucking woop06:20
godrikthe version of meamo mapper is 2.6.206:21
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godrikare all the data of maemo mapper stored in ~/MyDocs/.documents/Maps ?07:03
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godrikwhere does maemo mapper store its information ?07:16
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godrikI tried to erase both ~/.maemo-mapper and ~/MyDocs/.documents/Maps07:16
godrikbut MM still remembers thing07:16
godrikI would like to completly flush MM data.07:16
godrikany idea ?07:16
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mrlanrathello everyone!07:29
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mrlanratI was just wondering, how do i get the album art to show in the default diablo media player (it showes up just fine in canola and other media players) The artwork is in the id3 tag.07:30
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ptlHow do I simulate the "power" button inside scratchbox?07:42
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ptlhello-o?07:45
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bullet`helo07:45
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crashanddiehehehe07:51
crashanddie"Steve Jobs confirms original iPhone won't run iPhone OS 4.0"07:51
crashanddieTake that bitcheees07:52
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crashanddie(aimed at all the whiners crying about N900 not officially supporting MeeGo)07:52
koala_manhaha07:53
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bullet`it was in the news .. i think it 'll run for 3gs?07:54
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crashanddiewell, there's the iPhone, iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS07:55
crashanddieso we can safely assume that the iPhone 3G and 3GS versions will support OS407:56
bullet`for the 3g, isnt it going to be very slow ? 3gs wud be the only one that 'll run it good07:57
crashanddieNot necessarily07:57
bullet`i hear 3gs is like 2.5x faster than 3g07:57
crashanddieSpeed has rarely something to do with it, more like the actual chipset drivers or functionalities are used a bit too much for it to be compatible with the original iPhone07:57
bullet`so since the multitasking in there now, they need a better hardware, atleast like 3gs07:57
crashanddie(digital compass etc)07:58
dmj726_n900where did you hear it wouldn't be supported?07:58
crashanddiehttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20002318-37.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-2007:58
crashanddieJobs responded to a customer e-mail asking if the new operating system would support the original iPhone, according to Mac  enthusiast site MacStories. In his typical succinct style, Jobs said:  "Sorry, no. Sent from my iPhone"07:59
Stskeepsheh08:00
Stskeepswell, android is doing same these days08:00
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dmj726_n900the aritcle seems a bit confused as to whether it's just the multitasking or 4.0 in general that isn't supported.08:01
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ptlwhat about the power button in scratchbox? Noone knows?08:05
mrlanrator does anyone know how to make the album art work in diablo?08:06
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crashanddiemrlanrat: not supported AFAIK08:08
crashanddiemrlanrat: only .jpg files can be used for Album Art in diablo08:08
mrlanratso you need to have the artwork as a separate file?08:08
mrlanratugh, i just put my n810 into an infinite reboot.08:11
mrlanrattime to reflash again.......08:11
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mrlanratunless anyone knows how to fix hildon desktop08:11
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ptlyou should have previously installed bootmenu08:14
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mrlanrati think i will next time08:15
mrlanratbut can bootmenu alone help?08:15
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mrlanratdoes bootmenu come with a shell?08:15
mrlanratall i need to do is edit a config file, can that be done over usb?08:15
Stskeepson usb yes08:15
mrlanrathow?08:15
Stskeepsbut you should have installed bootmenu in advance08:15
Stskeepstelnet08:16
Stskeeps:P08:16
mrlanratyou can telnet over usb????08:16
luke-jr...08:16
luke-jrit's a network connection08:16
mrlanrato, so bootmenu can allow the n810 to act as a network card?08:16
Stskeepsright08:17
luke-jrminus the card ...08:17
mrlanratgood to know08:17
mrlanratlol08:17
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mrlanratis there anything i can do without bootmenu installed?08:17
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luke-jryes08:17
mrlanratwhat?08:17
* RST38h moos triumphantly08:17
luke-jrbut not simple enough to hold your hand through08:17
luke-jrflasher can boot a custom kernel w/o flashing it08:17
luke-jrcould build one that has fbcon and execs /bin/sh08:18
mrlanrathmm, are there any kernels that i could use that are pre-built? (so that I don't need to compile my own)08:19
luke-jrslonopotamus: ... wtf do I care?08:20
slonopotamusluke-jr: it's just funny :)08:20
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Triztmrlanrat; I think there is one in the testing repo08:21
mrlanratwhere/how do i get it?08:21
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Triztmrlanrat; http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing08:21
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mrlanratThanks trizt, ill look into it08:28
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crashanddieHaha, Microsoft's phone attempts is ridiculous09:17
crashanddie(re the Kin and Kin Two)09:17
crashanddieNo SDK, no App Store, no pricing, and only 8GB of storage with no uSD09:18
bullet`microsoft is so pathetic !!!09:19
bullet`sorry i had to just say that !09:19
bullet`only they do good is directx and xbox i guess ;P09:19
bullet`only thing*09:19
MiXu-And Windows 709:19
crashanddieerhm, directx sucks donkey balls09:19
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crashanddiethe xbox is ok, but the model is wrong09:20
bullet`it maybe from the programming point of view ..09:20
crashanddiepaying for playing on the interwebs? When I'm hosting the server and paying for all the bandwidth? Thank you very much, bastards09:20
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bullet`i dotn know about windows 7 ... although i hv been using it since some time now09:21
crashanddiemorning lardman09:21
bullet`aha09:21
lardmanmorning crashanddie09:21
Stskeepswoo, 3333 thanks on tmo09:21
crashanddieStskeeps: you the devil's cousin?09:21
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Stskeepsclose enough09:21
lardmanbrother09:21
lardman;)09:21
crashanddietwice removed09:21
crashanddieStskeeps: how many posts?09:22
Stskeeps87909:22
lardmanI had a uid of 666 at a company I was working for09:22
* crashanddie looks for one of Stskeeps' posts to ruin his magical number09:22
crashanddieStskeeps: nice ratio!09:22
Stskeepsso i was thanked on average 3.79 times per post :P09:22
crashanddieI'm only at 1.52 :(09:23
lardmanare we looking at new karma metrics?09:23
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Stskeepsi wouldn't mind thanks:posts as a metric for signal vs noise09:23
* bullet` nods09:24
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crashanddieStskeeps: why can't I find any of yours posts ffs09:24
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fralsthe problem is when you give endusers who refuse to read support on your application, and they refuse to thank you... good way to decrease thanks:posts ratio :p09:24
Stskeepscrashanddie: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4521309:24
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crashanddieStskeeps: 400 in one post?09:25
crashanddiedjeezus09:25
Stskeepsyeah09:25
Stskeepsit was a good post09:25
Stskeeps:P09:25
crashanddienha, not exceptionally good09:26
crashanddieyou just posted in the right forum for the audience09:26
Stskeepsit did shut up people, at least for a little while09:26
Stskeeps:P09:26
crashanddiehad you posted it in Community (where it belongs), you would've been trolled to death09:27
lardmangood lord, that's a lot of thanks09:29
ptlis there ANY way of taking screenshots via command-line without using imagemagick or screenshot-tool ?09:29
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crashanddieptl: short answer or long answer?09:30
lardmanwasn't there a ctrl-shift-p (or similar) keypress to do that?09:30
ptlcrashanddie: longer is better09:30
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crashanddieptl: yes09:30
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ptlyes, there is09:30
ptlbut there is no dbus method or anything assigned to that, lardman09:30
ptlI want an automated way09:31
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lardmanI see09:31
crashanddieptl: the short answer was "no"09:31
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crashanddie(because "yes" is longer than "no")09:32
ptlso the long answer is yes?09:33
crashanddiedef longest_answer(first, second):09:33
crashanddie    if len(first) > len(second):09:33
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lardmanand what's the method is the next question ;)09:33
crashanddie        return first09:33
crashanddie    else:09:33
crashanddie        return second09:33
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ptlyes, so what is the method?09:34
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ptlpreferrably following the order "simple command-line" >> "shell script" >> "already installed x-window utility" >> "perl script" >> "python script" >> "external c program" (screenshot-tool, imagemagick's import)09:36
ptlthe >> are arbitrary symbols. They mean nothing in this context.09:37
ptlit's just an order of preference. :P09:37
lardmanptl: is screenshot-tool open source?09:37
lardmanpresumably one could hack it into something command line friendly09:37
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JaffaMorning, all09:40
Jaffalardman: osso-screenshot-tool still exists, doesn't it?09:40
lardmanmorning Jaffa09:40
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lardmanJaffa: dunno, never used it, was just suggesting somewhere for the OP to look09:41
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* noobmonk3y swears that some people on t.m.o. just love to be arrogant for the fun of being arrogant09:45
noobmonk3y~Arif09:46
noobmonk3y~Arif_09:46
noobmonk3y~Seen Arif09:46
infobotarif <Arif@95.168.163.235> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 52d 16h 10m 36s ago, saying: 'yeah it was sarcasm :('.09:46
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noobmonk3ylol i'm slow today09:46
noobmonk3y~Seen Arif_09:46
infobotarif_ <Arif@95.168.163.235> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 9d 18h 51m 27s ago, saying: 'they're not exactly the same are they?'.09:46
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wiredhey guys09:47
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ptllardman: I was investigating the issue, sorry. Yes, it is open-source and I have seen the code and it's very very simple, couldn't be simplest. It just invokes a standard X API call to get the root screen, writes a png and that's it.09:49
ptllardman: but this is something that can be done from the shell09:50
noobmonk3yhi wired09:50
ptl~seen ptl_demands_PR1209:50
infobotptl_demands_pr12 <~patola@unaffiliated/ptl> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 3h 41m 20s ago, saying: 'http://www.somelink.com if anyone is trying to test this bug :)'.09:50
crashanddieptl: that's based on the assumption that the display server is standard xorg09:50
crashanddieptl: the way I would do it, is find a way to call whatever calls ctrl shift p, and call that from your script09:51
ptlcrashanddie: sure, but that's the case with maemo, isn't it?09:51
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ptlthe code to whatever calls ctrl-shift-p... isn't that intermingled with the closed source components? it might be a bit difficult to get it, isn't it?09:52
ptlI tried to do dbus sniffing, didn't get anything09:52
wirednew kernel again =]09:52
ptlI even confused a thumbnailer service call to issuing the screenshot command09:52
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ptls/ to / with /09:53
infobotptl meant: I even confused a thumbnailer service call with issuing the screenshot command09:53
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ptlsorry09:55
ptlnot standard X API call09:56
ptlbut standard gtk API call09:56
ptlnamely, gdk_pixbuf_get_from_drawable09:56
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lardmanso what was the code that uses the X Windows calls?09:58
ptlthere's no such code. I confused. It uses gtk+10:01
ptlanyway, if you want such code (in C), xwd uses that and you can get the source10:02
lardmanno, I was wondering for you10:02
ptlI found two python examples, using QT and GTK+10:02
ptlhttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/69645/take-a-screenshot-via-a-python-script-linux10:02
lardmancan you send keypresses to the window server then10:02
wiredhmmm10:02
ptlkeypresses? I don't think this solution would be very reliable10:03
lardmanperhaps not, just a thought10:03
wiredcrap10:03
wiredthe latest titan kernel doesnt boot10:03
lardmanis that an overclocked one?10:03
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wiredor it didn't flash properly10:04
wiredlardman: not by default10:04
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lardmanwired: what's different about it then, other than the ability to change the overclocking?10:04
wiredlardman: lots of extra kernel modules10:04
wiredincluding nat10:04
wiredand ofcourse onthefly oc10:05
lardmanok10:05
wiredmfff10:05
wiredsucks10:05
ptlthe python-gtk way worked10:06
lardmanptl: good good10:06
ptlI will add it to Phone control10:06
wiredi have a kernel image lying around somewhere...10:06
* wired looks for it10:06
lardmanptl: why does a phone control need screenshots?10:07
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ptllardman: I don't have the slightest idea, a friend of mine asked me to find out for him and I am curious enough that I tried.10:07
ptlactually "Phone control" means "device control"10:08
ptlthe page is misnamed10:08
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lardmanah ok10:09
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crashanddielardman sounds like the spanish inquisition10:10
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crashanddiewell, spanish as spoken by an english person, I guess10:11
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lardmansi!10:12
lardmanand on that note, /me gets ready to head to work, cu all later10:13
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wired... it wont boot anymore, yay10:14
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ab_crashanddie, do u use macbookpro ?10:15
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crashanddieyup10:16
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bullet`how much does it have ?10:16
bullet`ram*10:16
crashanddie8GB10:16
bullet`wow .. thats a lot .. so the os is ofcourse 64 bits, do u run windows on a vm in it ?10:17
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crashanddienope10:17
crashanddieonly linux10:17
bullet`aha .. hw is the performance of linux on vm ?10:17
crashanddieand > 4GB doesn't require 64bit, you can have 32 bit and > 4GB10:18
crashanddieit's only that a single process will only be able to address 4GB10:18
bullet`aha . is that a feature for mac that even on 32 bits u can utilize more than 4gb?10:18
bullet`aha ok10:19
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meceWTF? Tweego is 15Mb? that's a lot.10:19
crashanddieNo, any OS can implement that, Linux does, so do some versions of Windows, dunno about Mac, I do have a 64bit OS10:19
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bullet`well i have been only familiar with gaming forums that the guys discuss their the gaming pcs they have (windows), they always have to select a 64 bit vista/win7 if they have 4 gb or above ram10:20
crashanddieyeah, because microsoft chose not to implement it10:20
bullet`yea10:21
lupine_85highmem is a bit poor, to be fair10:21
crashanddiebut windows server 2003 supports 8GB of RAM in 32bit mode10:21
crashanddieLinux supports 64GB in 32bit mode10:21
bullet`so how is the performance of linux in the vm on your mbp?10:21
crashanddieexcellent10:21
crashanddiefeels native10:21
bullet`yea servers have those capacities10:21
bullet`aha thats cool10:21
bullet`can we say windows will be that good on the vm in mbp too ?10:21
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bullet`i have a laptop , vostro 1500, and now its the 3rd year going .. and i cannot convince myself to get any other laptop, nothing seems way better than my current laptop. But since few months i have my eyes on mbp 15, design wise and durabillity, i think everything is excellent.10:23
bullet`i know will have to spend a lot of money but totally worth it10:23
crashanddiebullet`: new macbook pros are going to come out10:23
crashanddiebullet`: it's a bad time to buy -- you won't get good value for money10:24
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bullet`but since i do the dvelopment in windows, i cant give it up totally.10:24
crashanddiewait for the new ones to come out, and then buy refurbished10:24
bullet`yea i have heard that somewhere, maybe engadget .. will wait for them10:24
crashanddieyou can get 10-40% off10:24
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bullet`how long have u been using yours ?10:25
crashanddiebullet`: Don't forget that there's bootcamp, which allows you to boot windows natively as well10:25
crashanddie6 months10:25
bullet`yea10:25
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crashanddieBut I can't expect a windows vm not to run smoothly10:25
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bullet`any fears about battery ? will it run for like 2 years ?? its not replaceabl right ?10:25
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crashanddieWell, 6 months down the line and i still get 7hours out of mine10:26
bullet`cool10:26
crashanddieand if it breaks, I'll replace it... Whether I have to go to an apple store or not for that doesn't change much10:26
bullet`what about the new mbps, is the battery repleaceable ?10:26
crashanddienope10:26
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bullet`aha10:27
bullet`but its safe to  assume that the battery should last like 2 years .. so many ppl r using this stuff.10:27
crashanddiepretty much10:28
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crashanddiebullet`: I only have the 13" one though10:30
crashanddiebullet`: the 2.6Ghz one or whatever it is10:30
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crashanddieI upgrade the RAM myself, went from 2GB to 8GB (the prices from Apple are mad)10:30
bullet`aha10:31
bullet`so i should get the lowest ram available and than buy my own10:31
jacekowskioh no10:31
jacekowskiyou used non apple ram?10:31
bullet`so how muchw as the 8gb extra, did u sale the 2gb u had ?10:31
jacekowskithat's blasphemy10:32
crashanddienha, gave it to a friend10:32
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crashanddieI don't remember the price10:32
jacekowskiwhat's mounting sd card in n900?10:32
Stskeepske-recv10:33
crashanddiebullet`: I think I paid $220 per 4GB chip10:33
mecequestion, why do people buy the iPad?10:33
crashanddiebullet`: so $440 in total, whereas from Apple it was like $1000 or something10:33
jacekowskicrashanddie: that's still cheaper than server memory10:33
bullet`hmm10:34
crashanddiejacekowski: and? It just wasn't part of my budget10:34
bullet`i'll suffice with 4 gb i guess :)10:35
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crashanddieYou can run 2VMs with 2GB10:35
crashanddieI just give each VM 512MB10:36
bullet`crashanddie,  when mac os boots and ready to start doing stuff, how much ram is it taking at that time , generally ?10:36
crashanddieI have a few apps running in the background10:36
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crashanddieusually with Skype, browser and such, I'm around 500-70010:37
crashanddiewhen it just boots, probably 30010:37
bullet`thats pretty nice10:37
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crashanddiebullet`: you can run most OSs with 256MB of RAM10:39
crashanddieif you want to use it comfortably, 512, if you need to run memory intensive stuff, 768 or 102410:39
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bullet`yea i have tried several times, windows on windows ..10:40
bullet`it was ok ..10:40
bullet`but yes depends on what u wanna do and so adjust the ram accordingly10:41
crashanddiebullet`: where do you live?10:41
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bullet`well these days, i'm in east timor10:42
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crashanddiewhere the hell is that? Country/10:43
bullet`hehe10:43
bullet`umm10:43
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bullet`its used to be a part of indonesia10:43
bullet`got independence in 200210:43
crashanddieoh wow10:43
crashanddieok10:43
bullet`first country of 21rst century10:43
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crashanddiemost recent country/10:44
bullet`its a pretty small island, near indonesia10:44
crashanddie?10:44
bullet`yea10:44
bullet`its 600km from darwin/australia10:44
crashanddiewell, I don't know how pricing is there, but I used to live in the UK, and bought my mbp in the US10:44
crashanddiePaid about half price10:44
crashanddiewell, maybe a tad more, but really, massive price difference10:44
ptleast timor? So you speak portuguese? Então você sabe português, bullet`? Costuma acessar fóruns de N900 brasileiros?10:45
bullet`well i cant find anything here for sure, i can pick up the laptop from singapore or indonesia, or maybe ask a friend coming from usa to get me mbp1510:45
bullet`hehe, no ptl i am not a local here10:45
timeless_mbpwow10:45
ptloh, sorry then10:45
bullet`just trying to learn some stuff10:45
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timeless_mbpmy kernel_task uses 1.08gb :)10:46
bullet`portugese is official language here but the locals speak Tatum10:46
crashanddieptl: no, he's not used to going to the brasilian n900 forums you're an admin of :P10:46
timeless_mbpmy browser tends to use ~600mb10:46
ptlcrashanddie: I am not admin of any forum10:46
timeless_mbpmy irc client tends to use ~400mb10:46
crashanddieEH?10:46
crashanddie400mb on IRC?10:46
ptlI usually try hard to stay as an user10:46
crashanddiewtf10:46
ptladministering things steals your time.10:46
crashanddietimeless_mbp: what do you use?10:46
timeless_mbpmy indexer (like tracker) [Quicksilver] uses 150mb10:46
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: atm, ZFS, Caminio, Adium, Quicksilver10:47
timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure ZFS is the reason my kernel is using >1gb of ram10:47
crashanddietimeless_mbp: I don't have that much running, littlesnitch, macirssi, and that's about it :)10:47
* ptl is using irssi + irssi-proxy on server and kvirc on client10:48
crashanddiemacirssi uses something like 30mb I think10:48
timeless_mbphow many channels?10:50
timeless_mbpi have 33 tabs in 4 windows, from 4 networks including 6 tabs for servers10:51
timeless_mbp17 channels10:51
timeless_mbpadium (when it isn't crashing, or updating) is kinda nice10:51
timeless_mbpit has useful highlighting, and works w/ growl10:51
bullet`what do u do on so many channels ?10:52
timeless_mbpit draws a 'you stopped reading here' line and shows me where others poked me10:52
timeless_mbpbullet`: 17 is really not many at all10:52
timeless_mbpone network is for casual chat10:52
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bullet`i'm a noob so i have only 2 channel windows opn :)10:52
timeless_mbpactually 3 networks, sorry10:52
timeless_mbpone network is for work purposes10:52
timeless_mbpsplit into primary dev, backchannel, secondary dev, tertiary dev, monitoring10:53
bullet`just bcuz of n900, i started using irc10:53
timeless_mbpthis network is a couple public chats maemo/meego, plus a dev channel10:53
timeless_mbpthe last network is for standards work10:53
timeless_mbpin 3 areas iirc10:54
bullet`standards mean10:54
timeless_mbpw310:54
timeless_mbpthings like html, css, ...10:54
ptltimeless: doesn't it pay to use some bnc or irssi-proxy if adium crashes that much? This way you would still use adium but would not lose your session10:54
* timeless_mbp points to timeless10:54
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bullet`aha10:54
timeless_mbpif i need a little scrollback, timeless has it :)10:54
ptlircii epic10:55
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ptlmight be nice but it doesn't have the proxying of irssi ;)10:55
timeless_mbpptl: yep, running one of those10:55
* timeless_mbp shrugs10:55
ptltry it10:55
ptlI couldn't  believe I used irssi for so many years without actually knowing about irssi-proxy10:56
ptlyou just join the network and channels you need10:56
Anss|wondering what n will reveal in 3 minutes: http://events.nokia.com/everyoneconnect/10:56
ptldo a /save layout, /load proxy, set up some basic stuff (ports and passwords)10:56
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ptland then you can use your irssi as an IRC server10:56
ptlit works transparently through every IRC client10:56
bullet`is there any public http proxy for accessing freenode channels ?10:56
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jacekowskiirc isn't going to work over http proxy10:57
ptlmight work10:57
ptlX-Chat can do IRC via http proxy10:58
bullet`hmm10:58
Anss|ssh tunnel somewhere might do the trick10:58
Shapeshifterjust use screen10:58
ptlI don't know how it does that.10:58
Shapeshifterscreen + irssi10:58
Shapeshifteror weechat.10:58
ptlyep10:58
timeless_mbpptl: oh, i know it exists10:58
timeless_mbpbullet`: webchat.freenode.net ?10:58
bullet`but i need a public http proxy to use it xchat .. cuz from my home i cant access ip:port, its kind of a restriction , so if i cant specify some http procy, maybe i can chat from it10:58
bullet`yes i have tried that .. its good10:59
* timeless_mbp was very impressed by it10:59
bullet`but i was thinking if i can power xchat with some proxy at home10:59
bullet`yea pretty neat and fast10:59
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Anss|hm11:00
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Shapeshifterlol fail11:01
Shapeshifterwhat an uber-impressive surprise this was.11:01
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timeless_mbp?11:02
Shapeshifterhttp://events.nokia.com/everyoneconnect/ the count down ended 3 minutes ago11:03
timeless_mbpi'm impressed11:05
timeless_mbpthey managed to find articulate people11:05
timeless_mbpi didn't know nokia could do that!11:05
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Shapeshifterhey, look, you can have contacts on your home screen11:08
Shapeshifterisn't that something11:08
SpeedEvil2I want contacts on my homescreen! (So I can plug in a trackpoint)11:09
Anss|not big wow moment but still11:09
Anss|looks pretty ok devices all together11:09
* timeless_mbp sighs11:09
timeless_mbpfinns suck11:10
timeless_mbpAnss|: some offense intended11:10
viszo_O11:10
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jacekowskiShapeshifter: countdown to pr1.2?11:10
timeless_mbp"pretty ok" is not English11:10
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timeless_mbpand "all together" is probably wrong. perhaps "all in all"11:12
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Anss|timeless_mbp, thank you for your opinion11:12
timeless_mbp(or just overall)11:12
Treibholzremote commands would be so cool for telepathy.11:13
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timeless_mbp"stick tongue out at user"11:14
timeless_mbp[remotely]11:14
Treibholzforwarding messages for example.11:14
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wiredok guys my n900 won't boot anymore :P it turns on, shows nokia logo, the bullets loading screen then turns black (but keeps running, i can tell cause if i hold the power button it powers off). is there any way i could salvage it without flashing it?11:19
ptltry using rd mode11:20
ptlsometimes it helps.11:21
jacekowskiwired: you shouldn't have tried to overclock it11:21
wiredit was not overclocked11:21
jacekowskibs11:21
wiredjacekowski: oh come on11:21
ptllol11:21
wiredlol11:21
wiredi indeed use it oc'd occasionally11:21
jacekowskido you want me to grep logs for wired and overclock?11:21
wiredbut i use the titan kernel11:22
wiredso on boot its not ocd11:22
Stskeepsat your own i'd say11:22
Stskeeps:P11:22
wiredblah i wish i could boot in console and see whats happening11:22
Treibholzcan I somehow configure the activesync-thing to not notify me on new mails in subfolders?11:22
wiredthis happened after a kernel upgrade so im guessing something went wrong there11:23
ptljacekowski: do you plan on making further improvements and adaptations in chromium for the N900? I think that's pretty much the general expectation11:23
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jacekowskiptl: yeah, the problem is that on my hardware it takes like 5h to build it11:23
ptlwow11:23
jacekowskiptl: but i'll have new server today or tomorrow11:23
ptlwell, I should have known, chromium is a big beast11:23
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wiredjacekowski: try using distcc (localy) it helps11:24
jacekowskiptl: well, on maemo builder it's 20minutes11:24
ptloh11:24
Treibholzwebkit needs a huge amout of RAM and disk to build.11:24
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jacekowskibut i'll have http://www.ovh.co.uk/products/eg_best_of.xml11:24
jacekowskitoday11:24
wiredjacekowski: in my arm gentoo chroot (on an i5) it went down from 2h22m to 51m with distcc :)11:25
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jacekowskidistcc?11:25
jacekowskiwhy would you use it on single machine11:25
wiredbecause the chroot emulates arm gcc11:26
wiredthats ugly11:26
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wiredif you send all the compiling to a native gcc that crosscompiles to arm11:26
wiredyou get huge speed increases11:26
wired;)11:26
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SpeedEvil2Is it that small?11:30
SpeedEvil2down to 40% that is11:30
SpeedEvil2I would have expected compiling natively to be several hundred percent faster11:31
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mortalwhy is my n800 battery discharging so rapidly11:32
mortallike 2 days11:32
mortalidle11:32
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till-because it's old?11:32
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mortalnew11:33
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wiredSpeedEvil2: well there's still overhead, the configure phase has to be done by the chroot for one11:34
SpeedEvil2because it's a cheap knock-off from ebay?11:35
SpeedEvil2wired: hmm. I suppose it oesn't take that long before that starts to dominate.11:35
SpeedEvil2wired: working out where the time goes - bootchart? and optimising that might be interesting. For example - you don't need cat to run as arm11:35
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X-FadeMorning11:36
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* SpeedEvil2 notes the evil daystar has in fact just woken him up.11:37
* Treibholz was happy, to find out, new batteries for the N900 aren't expensive. Mine will be down in a year (at the latest)11:37
SpeedEvil2Treibholz: ?11:38
SpeedEvil2Treibholz: you mean non-genuine ones?11:38
TreibholzSpeedEvil2: genuine, 12€11:38
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SpeedEvil2Treibholz: are you sure that's actually real - it just doesn't have 'genuine' printed on the battery?11:39
Treibholzhttp://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B001O5ES0S/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_i2?pf_rd_m=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=13ASPCVDDCJP2DQTMB9B&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463375193&pf_rd_i=30112811:39
nid0theres no real guarantee it's genuine, and for that price i'd suggest it isnt11:39
mtrltyea right. :D11:39
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mtrlttwo reviews, both 1 star11:40
jacekowski447M    chrome11:40
mtrlti'd bet it's a cheap chinese copy11:40
jacekowskione single 447M binary11:40
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jacekowskiif i compile it with -g option11:40
SpeedEvil2jacekowski: lol.11:40
jacekowskiand don't strip11:40
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SpeedEvil2jacekowski: It'd be amusing to see if that started.11:40
jacekowskiit does11:41
SpeedEvil2:)11:41
jacekowskiin gdb11:41
Treibholzhmpf.... ok...11:41
jacekowskilinux kernel is clever enough to just mmap that file without loading it11:41
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jacekowskii'm just wondering how strip would shrink it11:42
bullet`later everyone11:42
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jacekowski35M     chrome11:43
jacekowski35M after stripping11:43
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SpeedEvil2Bring back lzexe!11:45
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jacekowskiptl: what happened to you nick?11:47
jacekowskiptl: pr1.2 is released?11:47
ptljacekowski: no11:47
ptljacekowski: you can say I'm giving up.11:47
jacekowskiyou can't give up on your dreams11:47
ptljacekowski: will try another venues. Announced my N900 on ebay11:48
ptlok, just kidding. :)11:48
ptlIt's just that ptl is registered, ptl_demands_PR12 not11:48
SpeedEvil2My clock does not drip down the screen! I'm selling my n900! Dalibreaker.11:49
cos^does anyone happen to know if LibLocation's reported speed is really in km/h in Maemo5? in Maemo4 it's in m/s11:49
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ptljacekowski: ptl_wants_Nokia_to_have_a_clue it too big for freenode11:50
cos^sounds like a pretty stupid api change, as m/s is the standard unit for velocity11:50
X-Fadecos^: double speed;  Current speed (km/h).11:50
X-Fadehttp://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/liblocation/LocationGPSDevice.html11:50
Sceltptl: as konttori is on the paternity leave, no one does anything about pr1.211:51
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X-Fadecos^: Seems odd to me too btw ;)11:51
konttoriScelt: what do you mean?11:52
* lcuk thinks Scelt is wrong11:52
X-Fadekonttori: He wants a scoop ;)11:52
Sceltkonttori: you're not spaking the people there :D11:52
Sceltspanking11:52
cos^another useless #ifdef between maemo 4 and 5 :-/11:52
konttorioh, yeah, I am not, except as a normal hacker/community member.11:52
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ptlok11:52
konttoriemilia is sleeping atm, so I am coding.11:52
Scelt:]11:53
ptlif you're from Nokia (I never know), please, guys. PR1.2 is important... release it. There's just too much frustration around it right now11:53
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ptlJust trying to help, now I'll return to my studies of the maemo5 environment.11:53
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X-Fadeptl: And you think that people working on it don't know that?11:53
konttoriwell, I am not even reading my nokia emails, so personally, I have no idea about the pr1.2 release status.11:53
ptlX-Fade: seems like they don't know 'hard enough', I dunno.11:53
konttori(and I want to keep it that way ;) )11:53
X-Fadeptl: Do you really think that Nokia has it sitting on the shelf and waits just to piss you off? :)11:54
ptlno, it must have its internal reasons11:54
Stskeepseach time people speak of pr1.2, it gets delayed one more day11:54
Stskeeps;)11:54
ptlbut they should nevertheless increase the priority.11:54
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Sceltkonttori: how about ovi maps 3 for N900? is it in progress at all?11:55
ptlStskeeps: the tmo topic keeps growing and growing... this way PR1.2 release schedule will outgrow the cold death of the universe11:55
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ptls/outgrow/outlive/11:56
infobotptl meant: Stskeeps: the tmo topic keeps growing and growing... this way PR1.2 release schedule will outlive the cold death of the universe11:56
konttorito be honest, I am not exactly sure. They were working on it to some degree, but I wasn't exactly certain that did they decide to halt the development or not. It's part of the applications teams work, so I didn't pay too much attention to that, as I don't use it myself.11:56
ptlout-whatever11:56
ptloutage?11:56
konttoriis that uninformative enough? In theory, they are doing their app with web runtime, so it should be the same app for all nokia platforms, so, ... anyway, you can email simone.leggio@nokia.com to ask. He's heading the applications team for n900.11:57
ptlshe'll respond "Nokia doesn't announce release dates"11:58
konttori(or whatever the official term is... I suppose coach in these 'agile' days)11:58
ptlbut I thought it should be in testing stage by now. Are they still applying the fixes?11:58
Sceltkonttori: okay, thanks!11:59
konttoriactually, it's he.11:59
konttori(and not she)11:59
ptlsorry, "he" then11:59
ptlit's just that Simone is a lady's name in my country11:59
SceltI thought so too :P11:59
konttoriNokia Maps is developed completely by the nokia maps team, which does it for all platforms, so we have quite limited interaction with those guys.12:00
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konttoriAnd simone is the maemo contact person for nokia maps.12:01
Sceltand I think that they have some higher priorities for new s60 phones. launching new supported phones all the time12:01
StskeepsScelt: s60 team is also bigger though12:01
SceltStskeeps: there's one team doing all the maps dev12:02
konttoriwell, otoh, they are doing cross platform development, so that should not matter so much.12:02
konttorithat's the beauty of qt and wrt.12:02
StskeepsScelt: true12:02
Sceltkonttori: one hell of a jump in development12:03
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MiXu-Maps on S60 is pretty good, so I'm wondering what the hell went wrong with Maps for Maemo.12:03
MiXu-With the UI mostly12:03
ptlNothing went wrong12:03
ptlthey just have to reprogram it12:03
ptlnot so easy, I think12:03
ptllots of such code is dependent on UI12:03
konttoriI think s60 maps is not yet based on wrt.12:03
MiXu-The UI is not intuitive at all.12:03
konttoriwhile maemo ui is. anyway, as said, I have no clue what they are doing really.12:04
Sceltjust ircing and gettig paid :D12:04
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hrwhi12:04
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Sceltwork work work.... wirk wirk wirk... irc irc irc...12:04
ptlbork bork bork12:05
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Sceltovi maps should have come to older s60 phones too but I doubt that. Older customers are awfully often just forgotten12:05
jacekowskiwhy that https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/ is forcing https12:06
hrwScelt: many users of older s60 phones runs warez copy of ovi maps instead12:07
hrwScelt: license protection for ovi maps 3.x was broken over year ago12:07
Scelthrw: dunno. I bought the license two times. great app which I wanted to support12:07
hrwScelt: I got free month license and stay with tomtom device12:07
SceltI never bought tom tom or similar. ovi maps 3 was just fine12:08
jacekowskiyeah, it's nice to have satnav in a phone12:08
jacekowskibut i'm using tomtom in car12:08
jacekowskiit has better speaker12:08
jacekowskiwindscreen mount12:08
hrwjacekowski: fresher maps12:08
jacekowski( my windscreen has cracked couple days ago )12:08
jacekowskiwell, no12:09
hrwiq routes and few other nice things which ovi maps did not had12:09
Sceltovi maps were really up-to-date12:09
mtrltwho wants to look at the tiny monitor of a phone to navigate?12:09
SceltI don't look at the monitor12:09
mtrltin that case. :)12:10
nid0who looks at the monitor while driving anyway, thats what voice guidance is for12:10
Sceltbut I must admit that I never used the navigation in a place that I really know nothing about12:10
ptlI tried to navigate yesterday using Sygic and the FM transmitter. Didn't work very well12:10
hrwScelt: what pissed me off from ovi maps was very often recalculating of road12:10
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hrwScelt: it recalculated when I stopped on red light and then recalculated 5 meters later12:11
Scelthrw: ovi maps 2 did that but 3 solved all the problems I had with 2. left nothing to complain12:11
hrwScelt: ovi maps312:11
Sceltnot with me12:11
Sceltyou got the monday version12:11
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jacekowskibuilder is broken12:11
jacekowskiagain12:11
hrwScelt: which s60 phone? s60v3fp1 or s60v3fp2 or s60v5?12:11
X-Fadejacekowski: what's up?12:11
Scelthrw: N82. I think fp112:11
jacekowskibtw. https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/kernel-maemo_2.6.28-maemo22/12:11
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jacekowskiX-Fade: i've sent something to build and it's still in queue12:12
X-Fadejacekowski: which one?12:12
jacekowskiX-Fade: do you have highlight for builder and broken?12:12
jacekowskicgdb12:12
X-Fadejacekowski: it helps if you upload the tarball too.12:15
X-FadeOnly diff and .dsc are in your .changes ;)12:15
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jacekowskidput failed12:16
X-Fadejacekowski: check your .changes.12:16
X-Fadejacekowski: It is not in there either.12:16
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sECuREhrw: my ovi maps doesn’t recalculate routes at all. do i have to enable that?12:17
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hrwno idea, I left my s60 phone in decembber12:17
sECuREah, so you were not talking about the maemo version12:17
hrwsECuRE: maemo version of ovi maps is useless crap12:19
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sECuREyep, that’s what i think, too12:19
hrwpaper map is much better12:20
hrwtoo bad that there is no demo version of sygic maps12:20
MiXu-Yes, it's a shame.12:21
MiXu-Sygic is pretty good for car use12:21
jacekowskiif you have something to hold your phone12:21
jacekowskiand for that price you can buy dedicated tomtom12:22
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MiXu-Huh? For 59e?12:22
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MiXu-The cheapest tomtom I found with quick googling was 108,90e12:23
jacekowskiyou go to any shop here12:24
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jacekowskiand it's about 90 quid12:24
jacekowskiand includes in car charger12:24
jacekowskiwindscreen mount12:24
jacekowskibetter speaker12:24
JaffaCheap GPSes mean outlay for N900 car mount and Sygic probably isn't worth it for my occasional use.12:24
JaffaWill stick with Wayfinder on N810 for now12:24
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MiXu-I have a windscreen mount that cost me 11 euros.12:24
Jaffajacekowski: Probably faster fix when you don't have a data connection12:25
LynoureCheap GPSes are less handy for cycling than N900 with good maps would be.12:25
jacekowskitomtom have same maps everywhere12:25
MiXu-Sygic also has walking/cycling routing. I haven't tried that yet, but I know it's there.12:26
jacekowskiX-Fade: have you thought about displaying live progress somewhere?12:26
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MiXu-I'm just saying that you don't actually need an additional device for navigation. :)12:27
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jacekowskiMiXu-: yeah, it's usefull to take a look at map or something12:27
MiXu-I know there are devices that do the job slightly better than N900+Sygic.12:27
jacekowskibut it's not in car navigation12:27
X-Fadejacekowski: In this case it doesn't matter as your source is broken?12:28
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jacekowskifixed i it now12:29
jacekowskis/\ i//12:29
X-FadeYes, looks better.12:29
X-FadeAnyway, builds get picked up every 2 minutes and can run up to 8 in parallel.12:30
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jacekowskiwhat's used for it?12:31
jacekowskibuildd?12:31
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X-Fadesbdmock on the builder and buildme for build queue processing.12:31
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jacekowskirepository imports are done every 2 minutes as well?12:32
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X-Fadeimports are done every 2 mins yes.12:34
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alexj_http://bug.corp.yahoo.com/show_bug.cgi?id=357415112:46
povbotBug 3574151: was not found.12:46
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wiredok12:47
wiredfiasco+emmc fixed it12:47
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wiredthankfully i didn't lose much, i only had one [recent] config file not backed up, but its fresh in memory :)12:48
Shapeshiftermh, I can't seem to manage to install extensions in chromium. I tap "install" and it just scrolls to the top of the page and nothing happens12:48
ptlwired: you had to erase your emmc to fix the N900 boot issue?12:49
wiredyes unfortunately12:49
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Shapeshiftermh now it worked12:50
wiredbut i did manage to backup everything from mydocs12:50
wiredsince usb storage mode worked :)12:50
ptlcool.12:51
* GAN900 yawns and complains about the TSA making him get up early for the airport.12:51
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X-FadeGAN900: They allow you to fly?12:51
GAN900X-Fade, I guess we'll find out when I get there. ;)12:52
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* GAN900 doubts Delta would check with the TSA before taking somebody's money.12:52
X-FadeGAN900: Expected you to be on all kinds of no-fly lists :)12:52
GAN900X-Fade, you see the cloak bug?12:52
X-FadeGAN900: Yes, will do that.12:53
hrw~die maemo, die12:54
* infobot murders maemo, die, takes two shots to the head then crumples to the ground, lifeless...12:54
Stskeepsthat's rude12:54
Stskeeps:P12:54
* wired mental note - beware of kernel updates12:54
hrwStskeeps: it is rather too simple die sequence for it12:55
hrwwired: n900?12:55
wiredhrw: yeap12:55
hrwwired: so far there were no official kernel updates for n90012:55
wiredi did not say official12:55
wired:>12:55
hrwwired: I do not use unofficial ones - except mine ;)12:56
wiredheh12:56
wiredyes thats probably what i should be doing as well12:56
wiredi was using the one in the repo12:56
wiredit updated today and boom12:56
wiredno boot12:56
jacekowskirootfs                  227.9M    224.3M         0 100% /12:57
ptl~die himself, ressurrect on the third day then goes on writing a large book about PR1.2 revelations, but12:57
* infobot murders himself, ressurrect on the third day then goes on writing a large book about PR1.2 revelations, but, takes two shots to the head then crumples to the ground, lifeless...12:57
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wiredjacekowski: you have to love that... happened to me as well :P12:57
ptlnever happened to me, lalalalala12:58
hrwwired: but you can flash just kernel so no worry12:58
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wiredhrw: tried, didn't work12:58
wiredhrw: tried fiasco alone, didn't work12:58
wiredtried a bunch of other stuff that didn't work before that12:58
wiredin the end i flashed fiasco+emmc and it booted12:59
ptlwhat's ~/MyDocs/cities/diskcache used for? it's huge12:59
hrwptl: ovi craps12:59
jacekowskigeotagging maybe12:59
lcukptl, some sort of diskcache for the maps ;)12:59
Stskeepsptl: cached maps12:59
jacekowski /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive12:59
hrws/craps/maps12:59
jacekowskithat's hhuge12:59
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wiredmeh i wish i could boot gentoo on this with everything working12:59
jacekowskiand i suspect that it contains locale for all languages12:59
jacekowskiwired: i'm never going back to gentoo13:00
crashanddie_wired: well, ready for some 20 years of compilation?13:00
ptlI have ran ovi maps 3 or 4 times only since I bought the N90013:00
jacekowskieverything took to long to install13:00
wiredi love gentoo13:00
jacekowskiit's slow13:00
crashanddie_I loved Gentoo with a passion, but seriously, having to manually remove the masks of unstable packages, never again13:00
ptlcan't imagine why this directory is so large13:00
jacekowskicrashanddie_: autounmask13:00
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wiredcrashanddie_: no, i already have a gentoo chroot on the n900, i built it on my i513:00
wiredand i use ~, stable is for servers13:00
wired=]13:01
crashanddie_wired: so, only took 10 hours?13:01
crashanddie_for 0 performance gain?13:01
wiredi don't care about performance13:01
crashanddie_finally13:01
wiredi care about knowing what the heck is going on with my system13:01
wired:)13:01
crashanddie_finally someone who understands gentoo13:01
jacekowskiwell, i've tried different combinations13:01
crashanddie_wired: you just gave me confidence in the human race again13:01
jacekowskiand gentoo is faster13:01
dragon900wired: have you tried gentoo prefix?13:02
jacekowskibut only because of one reason13:02
wiredand i enjoy the way gentoo works13:02
jacekowskistock kernel in most of distributions is bloated13:02
wireddragon900: no, not yet anyway13:02
jacekowskiand that's where most of performance is lost13:02
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wireddragon900: i guess i should at some point13:02
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dragon900i set gentoo prefix up on my n900 today13:03
wiredcrashanddie_: i also like use flags and ebuilds are really easy and fun to write =]13:03
dragon900even with distcc, emerge is really slow :(13:03
wiredexpected13:04
wiredcreate a gentoo/arm chroot on a fast system13:04
wiredusing qemu-user13:04
wiredand build binpackages13:04
jacekowskidragon900: paludis13:04
wiredlol13:04
wiredthat won't get him past the configure phases faster13:05
jacekowskiand emerge "recently" became faster13:05
jacekowskiwired: but emerge is awfully slow on calculating dependencie13:05
jacekowskis13:05
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wiredwas13:05
wiredits ok now, unless you override eclasses13:05
jacekowskiwhen did it changed?13:05
jacekowskiit was awfully slow 2 years ago13:06
jacekowskiand 3 years ago13:06
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jacekowskiand 4 years ago13:06
wiredwell13:06
jacekowskiso i doubt anything has changed13:06
wiredim only using gentoo for 2 years this june13:06
wiredand developing for it since last july, but it did improve vastly at some point :)13:06
jacekowskiint a=1; a=a<<8; printf("%d",a)13:08
jacekowski256 or 0?13:08
lcuk25613:09
visz0?13:09
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jacekowskiit's either << or >>13:09
dragon90025613:10
lcukalso jacekowski it wont compile13:10
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jacekowskijacekowski:~# gcc test.c13:13
jacekowskijacekowski:~# ./a.out13:13
jacekowski25613:13
jacekowskiwell it compiles on x8613:13
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lcukwow, a c compiler that doesnt care about putting things in functions or semi colons :p13:14
wall[e]hi, can you format MyDocs to ext3 or something?13:14
wall[e]is it safe to do that?13:14
ptlyou have to modify mmc-mount for that13:15
ptland it will break when you update.13:15
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ptlso, use the definition of 'safe' you like better. :)13:15
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wall[e]lol ok13:16
wall[e]thanks.13:16
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SpeedEvilI shrunk mydocs to 4g and put another ext3 partition in the space13:17
ptlI am bzip2-tarring my ~user13:20
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ptl1.3GB so far... excluding some movies and my mp313:20
ptls/mp3/mp3s13:20
ptlso I can do more audacious stunts with my N900.13:21
wall[e]cool, good ideas thank!13:22
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jacekowskiwhat is mounting memory card?13:25
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ptljacekowski: Unix jargon for assigning a mount point (a directory) for some drive/partition and making it available13:29
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noobn900hello everyone. I am new to linux and just got my n900. I plugged in the USB cable, it asked me if I wanted to go into MASS STORAGE MODE, I said yes. Then I copied some files over, now I unmounted the device off linux pc, but how do I get the phone to "get out of MASS STORAGE MODE?" it's still showing USB Connected - Mass Storage Mode and I donm't want to just unplug it if there's something I can do to turn off mass storage mode on the n90013:31
fralspretty sure you need to unplug it13:32
TigerTaelEject the USB device?13:32
sECuREno, ejecting does not do anything13:34
sECuREyou need to re-plug13:34
sECuREthere is a ticket for that13:34
noobn900sECuRE: thanks13:34
TigerTaelwhy RE-PLUG it?13:34
TigerTaelHe wants to turn off mass storage mode.13:34
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TigerTaelDidn't say he wants it back on or in a different mode.13:34
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noobn900TigerTael: I figured I just unplug it and see. It's just I'm used to the G1 that used to ask you to get into some kind of usb storage mode, and when you were done you would go back and turn off the storage mode to be on the safe side. I guess n900 doesn't have that, you just unplug it once the n900 is unmounted from your connected pc.13:36
pupnikthe umount should flush any write cache13:36
noobn900pupnik: k, thanks. just wasn't sure, still new to this n900 but I already love it :D13:37
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pupnikcool13:37
lcuknoobn900, one question - are you, or have you ever been a monkey?13:38
noobn900lcuk: monkey?13:38
X-Fadelcuk: lol ;)13:38
lcukits ok noobn900 :) theres a noobmonkey who comes in with his n900 ;)13:39
noobn900lcuk: oh haha. I didn't know what nick to pick when entering this channel. I'm sure I'll be registering myself on maemo.org and on freenode soon to be a regular idler though13:40
bullet`hehe13:41
bullet`yea thats noovmonkey13:41
lcukim sorry, you cannot idle13:41
bullet`noobmonkey13:41
lcukspace core directive 397 states13:41
lcukany n00b must pull his weight13:42
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noobapehow about that? :)13:42
noobapehm, that just looks wrong ...aka   "no babe" (+typo?!)13:43
* lcuk wanders off back to work muttering something derogatory about irc ;)13:43
* pupnik lcuk will let us know when he thinks it is time :)13:43
lcuktime for?13:43
noobapeanyways, good night ya'll. Thanks again for the pointers. Off to play some more with the n90013:43
pupnikcheers have fun noobape13:43
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* DocScrutinizer grumbles14:01
Stskeepsmoo14:02
DocScrutinizerremoo14:02
DocScrutinizerknow I'm late on the 'paper' :-((14:02
jaskano remoorse14:02
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DocScrutinizer""Dear cutomer. Your device needs a send-in to Nokia for further processing"" >:-(14:03
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GAN900Oops14:04
bilboed-pianyone knows how to clear the dhcp cache ?14:05
DocScrutinizerso prepare for at least another two weeks of a evil-mooded DocScrutinizer14:05
bilboed-pii.e. I want the device to get another ip14:05
MiXu-run "dhclient" from cli as root?14:06
derfbilboed-pi: What are you using for a dhcp server?14:06
pupnikDocScrutinizer: what are you writing14:06
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bilboed-piderf, no idea14:06
bilboed-piderf, I'm talking about client side14:06
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DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: that'S rather tricky, as DHCP-servers tend to keep IPs for MACs14:07
bilboed-pifuck14:07
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DocScrutinizernot the internets' DHCP servers though14:07
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DocScrutinizerbut your router for sure does14:08
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lcukyou should be able to try to get a new ip tho - bilboed-pi what do you need a new one for?14:08
lcukhave you used all the bits on your current one?14:08
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DocScrutinizerlol14:08
MiXu-:D14:09
bilboed-pilcuk, no, it's just that sip is so much fail with this phone... that it didn't close the previous connection14:09
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bilboed-pilcuk, ending up with... still receiving the incoming udp/rtp stuff14:09
DocScrutinizerfor DSL / GPRS/3G oit's as simple as relogin14:09
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DocScrutinizermuhahahaha14:10
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DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: that should stop in max 5min14:10
DocScrutinizerrather 2 minutes14:11
bilboed-pinope14:11
bilboed-piit's been over an hour14:11
DocScrutinizero.O14:11
DocScrutinizerrogue far end14:11
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bilboed-piI don't even understand why it's allowing the two udp connections14:12
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DocScrutinizerandway I gather it's about a public IP then. Just tear down and re-establish the connection to the internets14:12
bilboed-piwhy can't it just kick it out14:12
bilboed-piDocScrutinizer, I can't tear it down, company internet14:13
DocScrutinizerouch14:13
bilboed-piraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh14:13
lcukudp == connectionless14:13
bilboed-pilcuk, you still get the point14:13
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: yep, but you'd get a new DHCP-lease14:13
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DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: so I take it you're behind a NAT14:14
bilboed-piyup14:14
javispedromoorning14:14
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lcuki can see why bilboed-pi wants to change ip, but the problem is in whatever server is trying to continuously push data to a machine thats not even acking14:14
GAN900Wee, hooray for backed-up Delta.14:15
GAN900Direct flight my ass.14:15
DocScrutinizerhmm, inbound UDP keeps the NAT sesssion alive14:15
bilboed-pilcuk, I don't get why when calling again... it doesn't instruct the server to drop the other connection14:15
bilboed-pis/it/SIP/14:15
infobotbilboed-pi meant: lcuk, I don't get why when calling again... SIP doesn't instruct the server to drop the other connection14:15
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DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: A SIP-conversation is bound to a unique ID, you can't cancel it by initiating a second conversation14:16
javispedroGAN900: flying to san francisco?14:16
* bilboed-pi still doesn't get why it stays up for so long14:16
GAN900Yeah14:17
javispedroenjoy! :)14:17
DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: technically it's not the SIP registrar or SIP-server that's spamming you, but the peer (probably gateway)14:17
DocScrutinizerthere's very little the registrar can do about it14:18
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bilboed-pigah :(14:18
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bilboed-piDocScrutinizer, but since I'm calling a landline... the gateway's owned by the SIP operator I guess14:18
DocScrutinizeryep, usually. still separate entities14:19
lcukbilboed-pi, silly question, did the person on the other end of hte landline hang up14:19
bilboed-pilcuk, I'm dialling into a conference server14:19
bilboed-pilcuk, so it'll act dumb as shit forever14:19
GAN900javispedro, hopefully, connecting in the most obnoxiously distant location possible for this flight14:19
bilboed-pilcuk, looking through my logs it looks like those connections stay up 2 hours14:20
javispedro:)14:20
javispedrohope some of the slides will be up after the event14:20
DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: out of luck14:20
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GAN900Seat request14:21
* GAN900 shakes fist at Kaleva.14:21
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Rabidus:O14:21
ptlis this some kind of greeting?14:22
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DocScrutinizeryour client failed to tear down the connection correctly, now you probably lost the call 'handle'. Instruct conference telco provider to nuke the conference14:22
lcukbilboed-pi, eep14:22
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DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: or disconnect your PC from ethernet (or shut down) for some minutes, until your company's NAT decides to drop the session14:23
bilboed-piDocScrutinizer, .... maybe I wasn't clear at the beginning14:24
BCMMmy n900 is asking me for the WEP key for my 802.11 network, but it's a WPA network14:24
bilboed-piDocScrutinizer, I'm using the n90014:24
BCMManyone else had this?14:24
nid0have you tried giving it the key?14:25
BCMMnid0: yes, it quite reasonably complains that it isn't the right length for a WEP key14:25
DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: N900 is a subclass of PC anyway14:25
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nid0beats me then, i've never had any problems with wpa access14:26
BCMMif i connect manually using xterm, will it recognise that it's supposed to use it as its internet connection?14:26
DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: switch to 'flight-mode' for 10 minutes. Might cure it14:26
koala_manI hate to ask, but.. did you point at the wrong network?14:27
BCMMkoala_man: thanks, i'll do it again carefully14:27
DocScrutinizerthere's fuckedup AP out there, that do 'dual mode' allowing WEP *plus* WPA un same SSID and network14:28
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BCMMDocScrutinizer: ook, is that what "mixed" might mean on the router?14:29
DocScrutinizerYES ;-P14:29
BCMMDocScrutinizer: actually, not sure that's what it means14:29
nid0nice idea, but routers that do that really should provide two ssid's14:30
BCMMDocScrutinizer: options are disabled, mixed, b-only, g-only14:30
nid0ah different14:30
nid0thats just transmission modes14:30
nid0nothing to do with the security in use14:30
DocScrutinizerooh, so that's another mixed14:30
BCMMi know, different 802.11 standards14:30
BCMMstill, might unconfuse something14:30
javispedroGAN900: facepalm on this ;) : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=607875#post60787514:30
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nid0the only time you might get confusion from transmission modes is if you have an -n capable router broadcasting on both 2.4 and 5ghz14:31
nid0but even then the security method in use would be unrelated14:31
GAN900javispedro, yeah, I did. . . .14:31
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javispedroand this is why we shouldn't use such attractive topic tiles :P14:32
BCMMnah, changing wireless standards doesn't make it recognise the WPA network14:32
javispedromaybe "request" would've been a more appropriate word.14:32
TigerTaelturn off WEP?14:32
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: how do you get the nice links pointing to a particular post in the whole thread??14:33
BCMMTigerTael: how do you mean?14:34
BCMMTigerTael: the router doesn't do WEP14:34
nid0DocScrutinizer: the link under the post number14:34
nid0top right14:34
DocScrutinizeraah14:34
BCMMit's doing WPA personal with TKIP14:34
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BCMMwell, it can do wep, but certainly isn't14:34
javispedroDocScrutinizer: yeah, but that link goes directly to post instead of thread; replace showpost with showthread and add # and done.14:35
BCMMif i just set up the network connection manually, will it know to use it as an internet connection?14:35
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nid0just a minor thought, is the router set to wpa or wpa2?14:35
javispedroDocScrutinizer: (or grab the full thread link from the single post view)14:35
BCMMnid0: that's odd, it's set to wpa14:35
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: pfffuh, thought I'm losing my force14:35
crashanddie_who's done some graphical app with python here?14:35
BCMMnid0: i don't know why that should be; but perhaps somebody had an obsolete laptop a while ago14:35
ptlLOL14:35
ptlLOLOLOL14:35
BCMMthey certainly don't now14:36
crashanddie_ptl: once more and you get kicked14:36
ptlbest facepalm yet in TMO: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49869&page=214:36
nid0for the sake of trying, give wpa2 a try? I havent personally used wpa on my n900, every router I connect to's wpa214:36
ptlhuh?14:36
ptlI was laughing from the TMO thread, crashanddie14:36
BCMMnid0: thanks a lot!14:36
ptlthe guy confused the arrow for leaving fullscreen with the arrow for enabling mouse mode.14:37
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BCMMnid0: that makes a lot of sense; i can't see why they'd put a great deal of testing into that14:37
nid0that actually fixed it?14:37
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles: around?14:37
BCMMnid0: oh yes, i remember now - somebody had a stupid stupid laptop a few years ago taht wouldn't do wpa214:37
BCMMnid0: yeah14:37
BCMMwell, it says it did14:37
nid0hum14:37
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nid0if it works fine with the router in wpa2 but not in wpa, i'd suggest filing a bug report, just so it's at least known about14:37
nid0though as you say wpa isnt used much any more so it probably never got tested properly to begin with14:38
Sceltptl: pr1.2 out+014:38
BCMMuh, maemo won't let me 'ping' as a normal user/14:38
BCMMguess i'll have to use a web browser or something14:38
crashanddie_BCMM: yes, that's normal14:38
BCMMoh wow, internet14:38
BCMM(it just arrived today)14:39
BCMMany idea if it's normal that i can't connect to the internet via 3g yet?14:39
nid0if your sim's active you shouldnt have problems14:39
BCMMnid0: well, i made a phone call14:40
BCMMthey are supposed to be moving my old number over though, and i don't think they've done that yet14:40
lcukBCMM, some ISPs internet connection settings may be incorrect14:40
BCMMmeh, perhaps there is just no reception here14:40
lcukspeak with the service provider about correct settings14:40
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BCMMany idea how to tell the difference between poor signal and just plain not working with the network?14:40
nid0if you have signal and the connection icon just constantly flashes14:41
DocScrutinizerBCMM: you need any kind of dataplan for your SIM, plus correct APN settings14:41
crashanddie_BCMM: poor signal: takes a long time to load, not working: doesn't load14:41
nid0its probably a connection settings fault14:41
BCMMDocScrutinizer: yeah, supposed to have an 'unlimited' data plan14:41
BCMM(scare quotes intended)14:41
DocScrutinizerBCMM: carrier?14:41
BCMMDocScrutinizer: t-mobile14:42
crashanddie_country?14:42
BCMMcrashanddie_: UK14:42
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DocScrutinizeranybody on UK t-mobile please psot the APN settings?14:44
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asjDocScrutinizer: there's a huge list of them if you google it14:44
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DocScrutinizerasj: the idea of IRC partially is to help noobs with direct help, rather than telling them 'try the 5k hits in google - well, probably 90% are BS or don't apply to your case"14:45
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asjDocScrutinizer: wow, now that makes me want to help you now doesn't it? :)14:46
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DocScrutinizerhelp ME??14:46
DocScrutinizerI'll consider to help YOU pal ;-P14:46
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: may as it be for you, the other 90% of IRC is to make fun of noobs who come here and ask questions that have 5000 answers on Google14:46
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koala_manwhile the other 10% solves your problem14:46
asjkoala_man: 6%14:47
crashanddie_asj: 3%14:47
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crashanddie_c'mon doc, say 1%, full circle!14:47
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asjkoala_man: the other 3% give wrong answers, and 1% give you answers that destroy your system14:47
crashanddie_BCMM: install maemo-devel and install Qt 4.614:48
koala_manstill better than a lot of irc channels14:48
crashanddie_will solve all your problems14:48
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crashanddie_BCMM: it will even make your kids smell nice without them taking a bath. Heck, you'll smell nice without taking a shower.14:48
DocScrutinizerBCMM: sorry for the fools here, please come back when they finished their silly hour :-)14:49
asjDocScrutinizer: when is that exactly? :)14:49
crashanddie_ /kick DocScrutinizer stop being such a buzzkill14:49
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crashanddie_asj: when DocScrutinizer isn't around :P14:50
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer14:52
*** DocScrutinizer was kicked by DocScrutinizer (User terminated!)14:52
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crashanddie_man he ain't coming back14:53
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asjdo we all need to /invite him back?14:53
crashanddie_you can't14:53
DocScrutinizer-8I'm always with you14:53
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Ken-YoungCheck for stigmata.14:54
crashanddie_not _always_14:54
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DocScrutinizervery refreshing. I'd recommend this to everybody feeling pissed by IRC ;-P14:56
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pupnik < DocScrutinizer> asj: the idea of IRC partially is to help noobs with direct help.14:56
pupniktrue14:56
asjpupnik: are you mocking him or me? :)14:57
crashanddie_he mocks himself14:57
pupnikneither14:57
DocScrutinizerme of ourse14:57
ptlas I was saying14:57
crashanddie_pupnik is one of the rare auto-flagelating people on the planet14:57
ptlScelt: no PR1.2, but thanks for the joke anyway :)14:57
crashanddie_before him, we had jesus14:57
Sceltptl: :-D14:57
crashanddie_ptl: I can give you the opper power, if you wish to avenge yourself on Scelt14:58
crashanddie_too late14:58
ptlcrashanddie_: lol14:58
DocScrutinizerdman, you've never seen those muslim mass madness?14:58
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pupniksounds like a video game14:58
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d14:))14:58
ptlthanks :)14:58
crashanddie_ptl: you're not kick enough14:58
crashanddie_(hehe, saw what I did there?)14:59
crashanddie_wordplay on kick and quick14:59
ptlyup14:59
ptlI tried to /deop myself as soon as I've seen the @ but chanserv was faster14:59
crashanddie_That'd be interesting14:59
crashanddie_if you could do anything in the channel14:59
crashanddie_what would it be?14:59
ptltruth is, I never kick/ban anyone in channels... I've got quite burned on the notion of exclusion14:59
ptlI'd do nothing15:00
crashanddie_let's see15:00
crashanddie_ptl: nothing would include not deoping yourself15:00
ptlI value conversation if it involves trolling sometimes15:00
ptlok15:00
ptlI would deop myself15:00
ptlas an exception to nothing :P15:00
crashanddie_pupnik: what would you do?15:00
crashanddie_wwjd? What would Jaffa do? xD15:01
TermanaWhat... would Jesus do?15:01
ptlMultiply fish and turn water into wine!15:01
ptlNo, no15:01
crashanddie_22:01 <crashanddie_> op #maemo jesus15:01
crashanddie_22:01 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- Jesus is not on #maemo.15:01
ptlhe would do some miracle15:01
TermanaI mean besides kick ban himself from earth15:01
ptllike making PR1.2 be released15:01
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer15:02
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer15:02
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Stskeepswhat's with all the op/deopping?15:02
MohammadAGerr15:02
Stskeeps:P15:02
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps15:02
* MohammadAG mass kicks everyone :p15:03
*** Stskeeps sets mode: -o Stskeeps15:03
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Stskeepsno thanks, only people on access list should be added.15:03
MohammadAGseriously, don't try to guess the command for that15:03
javispedroStskeeps: kick them all!15:03
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: actually that's not true15:03
TermanaHA HA BITCHES STSKEEPS WAS QUICKER AT DEOPPING HIMSELF THEN YOU AT DEOPPING HIM15:03
BCMMhmm, does the map thing do directions?15:03
crashanddie_Termana: actually, no one was trying15:03
wiredit does15:03
Termanacrashanddie_: Don't lie, you know you were typing the next command as fast as you could15:04
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: it's perfectly best practice to temporarily op non-AL chan members15:04
BCMMwired: the option seems "greyed out" to me15:04
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: yes, but is the threat level orange?15:04
Stskeeps:P15:04
MohammadAGactually he could just press up and enter Termana15:04
crashanddie_also [[Warning: CAPSLOCK from Termana@#maemo]]15:04
MohammadAGlol15:04
Stskeeps..15:04
wiredBCMM: hmm maybe it depends on your location - it works in athens :)15:04
* Stskeeps sighs and goes back to doing work15:04
BCMMwired: there are three options at the bottom of ovi maps, places - routing - directions15:05
BCMMdirections is greyed-out15:05
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: seems yes, crashanddie_ going mad. We need all the joint effort of the whole chan to get him back on rail ;-P15:05
crashanddie_Stskeeps: you can't do anything permanent really as far as I'm aware15:05
MohammadAGso.. why's #maemo err different today15:05
crashanddie_MohammadAG: I didn't take my pills15:05
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: 'going'?15:05
Stskeeps:P15:05
MohammadAGLOL15:05
crashanddie_actually, that is a good question, what happens if you ban me DocScrutinizer?15:06
Stskeepslet's not go there..15:06
Stskeeps:P15:06
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: I can't CS my way out of it15:06
ptlyou can unban yourself15:06
Termanacrashanddie_: Question, do you ever take your pills?15:06
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: nuttin15:06
BCMMhmm, what IRC client do you guys use on your phones?15:06
wiredBCMM: use the routing option first15:06
BCMMand is there one in teh default install15:06
wiredBCMM: i use xchat15:06
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: you can't ban AL-members15:06
SpeedEvilBCMM: xchat15:06
ptlBCMM: x-chat and irssi, tuned for connecting to my irssi proxy running on my personal server15:06
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: sure you can :P15:06
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crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: try15:07
BCMMwired: hmm, internet suggests they charge for directions...15:07
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: it is fairly easy to unwind though15:07
MohammadAGcrashanddie_, you just /cs unban #channel yourself15:07
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: well, you can, but doesn't help15:07
ptlBCMM: there's also kvirc compiled for the N900, but it's not in the repositories and I've never tried it15:07
javispedroah. a war!15:07
wiredxchat over znc on my n900 and irssi on all my other systems15:07
TigerTaelBCMM, the N900 doesn't currently have turn-by-turn navigation...15:07
wiredBCMM: the service is free, the data isn't15:07
ptlTigerTael: it has on Sygic15:07
Stskeepsjavispedro: a sad show of epenis'es15:07
TigerTaelBut Nokia have recently given all their GPS/map products free turn-by-turn...15:07
TermanaStskeeps: lol15:07
TigerTaelptl, that's not nokia.15:07
wiredunless you're on wifi or a pretty dataplan :)15:07
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crashanddie_lol... /cs clear #maemo users ->> Kicks all users from a channel.15:07
TigerTaelBCMM, but the N900 map application has yet to be updated.15:08
BCMMTigerTael: ah, so i will get a line on the map like google maps, not "left here right here" like a garmin?15:08
ptlTigerTael: it isn't, but runs on the N90015:08
TigerTaelBCMM, correct.15:08
DocScrutinizerI think the procedure is you'll op yourself via cs, and ops won't suffer from bans15:08
MohammadAGcrashanddie_, so does /mkick :)15:08
TigerTaelptl, I know, but Nokia is supposedly letting users have turn-by-turn for free now.15:08
TigerTaelOnly not on our N900's.15:08
crashanddie_MohammadAG: isn't that client-based?15:08
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, if an op is banned he can't join15:08
MohammadAGtill he's unbanned15:08
ptlTigerTael: have a little patience15:08
TermanaDocScrutinizer: I believe you can get ChanServ to do auto unbanning if your on ChanServ's access list15:09
MohammadAGcrashanddie_, not sure, never tried it except in a 2 user channel15:09
TigerTaelptl, I AM HAVING LOTS OF PATIENCE.15:09
TigerTael:)15:09
Termanaerr... he probably still has me on ignore :P15:09
wiredlol15:09
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TigerTaelptl, BCMM was asking, not me.15:09
MohammadAGTermana, I said the command :)15:09
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: not sure bout that. AIUI /cs unban is something different to a normal ban15:09
TigerTaelI was merely stating the fact.15:09
crashanddie_MohammadAG: interesting to see that /cs help doesn't list unban, however it replies to it15:09
crashanddie_Termana: who has you on ignore?15:09
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it unbans15:09
Termanacrashanddie_: DocScrutinizer15:09
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, ban crashanddie :)15:09
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: unignore Termana15:09
TermanaI did try to say sorry to him, but he called that spam15:10
DocScrutinizerwhy?15:10
crashanddie_because you're an op, you're not allowed to ignore people for more than an hour15:10
MohammadAGlol15:10
DocScrutinizernobody drops off my ignore list. All ever made it there deserved it15:10
Termanalol15:10
crashanddie_if he starts being annoying again, you need to be aware of it to take action15:10
wiredlmao15:10
ptlthen ignore only its private messages15:11
MohammadAGhe has a point :p15:11
ptlyou can do that15:11
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ptl*his/her15:11
MohammadAG/its*15:11
Termanaptl: Oh thats nice, no I'm "its" :P15:11
MohammadAG:P15:11
Termananow*15:11
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: we got you for such duties :-P15:11
crashanddie_why the fuck are we keeping you then?15:11
DocScrutinizer:-P15:11
crashanddie_because at this rate, people just need to piss you off, and then they can troll the whole channel without repercussion15:11
Stskeepsdon't we have anything better to discuss, like bacon?15:12
Stskeeps:P15:12
ptllike lolololing in all caps or worse, trolololing15:12
nid0recruit moar ops15:12
DocScrutinizerk, you're right15:12
ptlor bitching about PR1.2 (notice the caps)15:12
MohammadAGptl, or overclocking :P15:12
* MohammadAG waits for it...15:13
DocScrutinizer[2010-04-13 14:13:01] [Ignorieren] Termana!* von der Ignorieren-Liste entfernt.15:13
ptlMohammadAG: oh no, now you'll be banned15:13
BCMMwhy would an op /ignore?15:13
* wired runs his n900 @2.6ghz15:13
BCMMisn't that what devoicing is for? ;)15:13
ptlbecause an op is also an user?15:13
MohammadAGptl, i've been hearing about that for some time15:13
Treibholzwired: both cores?15:13
crashanddie_anyway, MohammadAG & DocScrutinizer, fwiw: /cs clear #maemo bans and /cs akick are your friends in case of chan takeover15:13
MohammadAGBCMM, channel is -m15:13
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wiredTreibholz: you mean all three15:13
wiredits tri-core =]15:14
DocScrutinizeryeah, and /cs recover15:14
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crashanddie_BCMM: the channel isn't moderated, nobody has a voice in here (except infobot, but he's special)15:14
Treibholzwired: well, if you count the FPU...15:14
MohammadAG-ChanServ- Unknown command recover.  "/msg ChanServ HELP" for help.15:14
BCMMwell, thanks for all the help15:14
BCMMi should eat lunch now15:15
crashanddie_I'm going to grab dinner15:15
* MohammadAG hates how no one's +q15:15
crashanddie_MohammadAG: people without a username are +q'd15:15
TermanaDon't discuss overclocking. Thats what started the whole thing that got me onto Doc's ignore list :P15:15
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DocScrutinizer[2010-04-13 14:09:46] [Notice] -ChanServ- RECOVER         Regain control of your channel.15:15
TigerTaelwired, I run mine at 4ghz in ln2.15:15
MohammadAGcrashanddie_, without a username?15:16
TigerTaelhard to use the touchscreen though.15:16
crashanddie_MohammadAG: not registered15:16
nid0MohammadAG: not registered with nickserv15:16
MohammadAGthat's not +q...15:16
MohammadAG+q is channel owner15:16
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TigerTaelDifference between channel modes and user modes?15:16
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crashanddie_MohammadAG: lol15:17
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie_15:17
*** crashanddie_ sets mode: +q MohammadAG!*@*15:17
crashanddie_there, channel owner?15:17
TigerTaelnice15:17
DocScrutinizeranyway the +q~A option is considered a real PITA and for emergeny threat handling only15:17
*** crashanddie_ sets mode: -q MohammadAG!*@*15:17
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie_15:17
TigerTaelIRCD differences.15:17
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: nha it's fine15:17
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: you can use ban exemptions if people need it15:18
TigerTaelor invites15:18
* Stskeeps ponders if there was a reason for that +q that couldn't be solved with a '+q is for silencing masks here' statement.15:18
MohammadAGhmm, +q is channel owner on the server i'm on15:18
TigerTaelMohammadAG, different IRCD15:18
DocScrutinizerno it's not, as it breaks all sorts of autojoin/autoregister schemes for several clients, by blocking nick changes15:18
MohammadAGTigerTael, explains a lot then..15:18
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: autojoin/auto nick changes are the pita15:19
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crashanddie_who cares whether you use your real nickname or not? If it's automatic, it means you're not in front of the computer anyway15:20
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TigerTaelI like watching automation. :D15:20
crashanddie_I'd rather block on auto script every 6 months, or see a poor guy have to register before he can talk rather than having some bots join and spam/DCC disconnect people15:20
crashanddie_TigerTael: invites don't work on +q AFAIK15:21
TigerTaelcrashanddie, oh, sorry, not familiar with IRCD seven.15:21
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DocScrutinizerwell, we've not seen many of such attacks since ircd7 migration. And this chan is -q~A for a long time now (like all the chan I'm op in)15:22
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crashanddie_TigerTael: +q prevents talking and changing nicks, but people can still join15:22
* MohammadAG has autorejoin :)15:23
crashanddie_so if you want to exempt someone, you need to +e hostmask them15:23
Stskeepsand this isn't a hinderance to people joining in the conversation how? does the mode tell them to register?15:23
Stskeeps:P15:23
Stskeepsie, with full instructions15:23
crashanddie_Stskeeps: no, but the topic does15:23
Stskeepsno, it doesn't15:23
Stskeepsit says 'register'.15:23
Stskeepsif you're going to do it right, at least refer to a guide on how to do it.15:23
jacekowskiyeah, o2 has problem with jogglers15:24
jacekowskinothing in stock15:24
Stskeepshttp://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration would be a good one.15:24
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TigerTaelgood idea15:24
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RST38bisUfff15:25
*** ChanServ changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | Can't talk? Register. Getting spammed? /mode YOURNICK +R | http://bit.ly/1MtZU"15:25
DocScrutinizerIt's common policy (and obviously also this channel's policy) NOT to have +q~A by default. So the whole heritage from pre-ircd7 times with those massive spam attacts is moot15:25
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Stskeeps[14:22] -!- 0 - #maemo: ban #~a!*@* [by15:25
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DocScrutinizerNOOO!15:26
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javispedrowhat the hell are you doing?15:26
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Stskeepsand topic would make more sense with | Can't talk? Register - see http://bit.ly/1MtzU on how to. Getting spammed? /mode YOURNICK +R15:26
crashanddie_Stskeeps: yeah, chanserv failed on that one15:26
Stskeepsblame the tool15:26
Stskeeps:P15:26
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crashanddie_hey, I'm just a worker15:26
X-Fadecrashanddie_: join message?15:26
crashanddie_of course it's the tool15:27
javispedrothe topic is too long.15:27
javispedroNOBODY will read it.15:27
TermanaMohammadAG: The server your on is probably an UnrealIRCD or Inspire IRCd server, both of which have +q as channel owner (i believe, though I'm not sure +q channel owner mode got merged into the main unrealircd project)15:27
TermanaStskeeps: ^^?15:27
TermanaI realize that looks like some stupid japanese anime smiley15:27
*** crashanddie_ sets mode: -q *!*@*15:27
javispedrowell, nobody that SHOULD've read it would read it.15:27
MohammadAGUnreal15:27
Termanadamn it lag15:27
StskeepsTermana: +q is inheritance from EliteIRCd15:27
*** crashanddie_ sets mode: -q #~a!*@*15:28
DocScrutinizerthe whole topic doesn't need this naggedynag as we don't need +q~A either, and we don't have it and I hope crashanddie_ isn't going to enable it once again - it's not the way this chan has been for 99% of the time and there's been no agreement on changing that15:28
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: revert that please!15:28
*** crashanddie_ changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/"15:28
TermanaStskeeps: A lot of UnrealIRCD builds had +q for channel owner in them (as well as +a), did those end up making it into the main unrealircd project? (or you don't know?)15:28
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: why?15:28
TermanaOh nevermind, i see15:28
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StskeepsTermana: it came from unreal itself15:29
DocScrutinizerwhy you've done it first place??15:29
MohammadAGTermana, actually +a is just more perms than +o, it's not channel owner :)15:29
TermanaWas there a compile time switch to turn off the modes or something?15:29
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: I removed it15:29
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: it was a typo from a couple of months ago15:29
* MohammadAG requests a kick15:29
*** MohammadAG was kicked by crashanddie_ (done)15:29
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DocScrutinizernah, crashanddie_ you're wrong15:29
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MohammadAGcool, i got kicked on #maemo15:29
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* MohammadAG takes a screenshot15:29
DocScrutinizerit's been you who enabled it first instance15:30
Stskeepssubmit complaint? :P15:30
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crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: 22:27  0 - #maemo: ban #~a!*@* [by crashanddie!~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie, 5704074 secs ago]15:30
TermanaMohammadAG's IRC client is now officially bitchin with auto-join15:30
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: #~a doesn't match anything15:30
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: it's $~a15:30
MohammadAGTermana, it's xchat15:30
crashanddie_I'm just cleaning up the crap15:30
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MohammadAGTermana, i can say how to enable it15:31
tgalalhey, does porting an app require approval by the original app writer?15:31
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: it's always been you who enabled that option. As stated above the channel was set up to allow unregistered users for 99% of time, for the last 9 months15:31
MohammadAGbut that might piss someone off15:31
MohammadAGtgalal, not that I know of15:31
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: it didn't actually work, fwiw15:32
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: #~a had no effect mate15:32
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: I added it one day when some troll came around, but typoed, he got killed from the network, and I couldn't be bothered to remove it15:32
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: in other words: the channel was always available even to unregistered users15:32
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jacekowskii vote for avaliability15:33
crashanddie_it was just at some point Freenode was really hit pretty bad by spammers and trolls, and btw, you're an op as much as I am, so you're free to remove anything I do ;)15:33
javispedrodays like this make me proud about being ignorant about the irc protocol15:34
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TermanaYes, put something back that has no effect DocScrutinizer15:34
crashanddie_javispedro: ah yes, our geek badge is completely shiny now15:34
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: nevermind, I need glasses. not noticed the MINUS leading the "q *!*@*"15:34
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crashanddie_lol15:35
DocScrutinizerthought you'd "+" it15:35
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crashanddie_anyway, going to grab a sandwich for dinner, later all15:35
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* MohammadAG remembers when someone klined *@*15:35
DocScrutinizergoing to prepare a coffee to kickstart other half of my brain15:36
MohammadAGhad to reboot the server15:36
DocScrutinizerlol15:36
nid0sysadmins have made much bigger mistakes than that ;)15:36
MohammadAG/gline *@* ? ;)15:36
crashanddie_yeah, like typing "rm -fr /" on a production server at BT15:36
MohammadAGor shun *@*15:37
DocScrutinizerhmm, like formating the wrong partition on a huge productive system :-S15:37
MohammadAGoh wait15:37
* DocScrutinizer hides15:37
MohammadAGthat can be worked around15:37
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crashanddie_didn't press enter, just told the guy "You shouldn't leave a root console unprotected buddy!"15:37
nid0DocScrutinizer: akin to what a tech did at flexiscale 2 years ago15:37
crashanddie_He was so pissed off, in his hurry to hit backspace, he hit enter15:37
nid0wasnt a partition on "a production system", was the entire storage array for an entire cloud platform15:37
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DocScrutinizeryeeeha15:38
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TigerTaelcrashanddie, aha...15:41
TigerTaelcrashanddie, but ctrl+c/x ?15:41
nid0well, there should be no need15:42
nid0unless the system was ancient or had --preserve-root intentionally disabled15:42
nid0rm -rf / would do nothing anyway15:42
TigerTaelmmm15:42
crashanddie_nid0: oh it does on mainframe :)15:42
TigerTaelI've had no problems using rm-rf / on my desktop servers.15:43
crashanddie_though wasn't really bad, without 10 minutes the backup was rolled out and server was up again15:43
nid0TigerTael: if it works on any sun/bsd/gnu rm, then it's pre-2005 ish or is gnu with --preserve-root disabled15:43
TigerTaelWell, I just use them for testing purposes, so I default install... debian/FreeBSD etc.15:44
DocScrutinizernid0: (preserve-root) that's what I thought as well15:48
DocScrutinizernid0: but depends on system flavour15:48
nid0not that i test it terribly extensively, but I dont remember the last time I saw a distro that wont preserve root by default any more15:49
DocScrutinizerbtw preserve-root doesn't help for rm -rf /* obviously15:50
nid0obviously, but it stops root deletes15:50
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nid0out-of-box debian/ubuntu definately say no15:50
nid0root@alex-ubuntu:/# rm -rf /15:51
nid0rm: cannot remove root directory `/'15:51
DocScrutinizerprobably gnu/linux generally15:51
X-Fadenid0: and /* ?15:51
DocScrutinizerwouldn't take any bet for HP-UX, AIX etc pp15:51
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andrewfblackMorning15:52
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nid0X-Fade thatll still undoubtedly kill it, that also takes more than a minor typo ;)15:52
Termanaandrewfblack: Good morning15:52
DocScrutinizerhi X-Fade :-)15:53
nid0preserve-root is pure typo protection, not idiot or asshole protection :_15:53
X-Fadehi DocScrutinizer15:53
DocScrutinizerAUTH *should* implement idiot/asshole protection ;-P15:54
RST38hHuawei as one of potential Palm buyers... hehehe15:54
DocScrutinizerhmm, in German we have the term "Wanderpokal"15:55
DocScrutinizer(AUTH) and /etc/sudoers of course15:56
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javispedropoor Palm15:57
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DocScrutinizeryau15:57
oscilliki want goddamn BeOS15:57
javispedroPalm doesn't own BeOS15:58
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BCMM_so what happens if i get highlighted while i,m in another window?15:58
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: this?15:59
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: obviously depends on your irc client and its setup15:59
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TigerTaelnid0, lol, I thought this was more than just idiot protection we were talking about.15:59
BCMM_docscrutinizer i was in this window...16:00
nid0TigerTael no, the whole idea of preserve-root is to prevent rm -rf / path/to/file fuckups16:00
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DocScrutinizerBCMM_: xchat highlights the chan tab. And may pop up a notification on N90016:00
BCMM_do you mind highlightings me again?16:01
DocScrutinizernp16:01
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: highlight16:01
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: highlight216:01
BCMM_good good16:01
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: highlight316:01
BCMM_thanks16:01
BCMM_so, what does one do for an IMAP client?16:02
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nid0one uses the one built into the n90016:02
nid0and one wishes they had one that wasnt so awful16:02
TigerTaelnid0, lol, never done that in my life.16:03
TigerTaelBut crashanddie was talking about deliberately typing it... and so was I.16:03
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nid0well, preserve-root will prevent rm -rf / (on gnu/linux,bsd,solaris) whether it's typed accidentally or deliberately :)16:04
DocScrutinizerTigerTael: the enter-key hit was by accident, according to crashanddie_16:04
Treibholz"Many modern mail servers support the IMAP Idle feature, which allows your email client to monitor an inbox. Sadly Modest on the N900 has this feature disabled for power reasons."16:04
Treibholzwhat?16:04
TigerTaelso if he appended an asterisk, his story would be A.O.K?16:05
Treibholzis polling every 5 minutes better?16:05
SpeedEvilTreibholz: maybe, yes.16:05
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TigerTaelBut because he didn't, now the whole story is implausible?16:05
nid0TigerTael well, if it was on a unix mainframe then it'd likely as not toast a system anyway, and he did clarify it was16:05
TreibholzSpeedEvil: that's bullshit, It works with XMPP.16:05
DocScrutinizerola` SpeedEvil :-)16:05
BCMM_how do i tab nicks?16:05
pupnikiirc the available imap idle algorithm is using polling16:05
SpeedEvilTreibholz: the cell modem can be very good standby wise, but take a large chunk of power to move one packet16:05
TigerTaelnid0, anyways, I don't really care, I just found it an amusing idea. ;]16:05
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TreibholzSpeedEvil: I use jabber all the time, so I have a connection open anyway.16:06
BCMM_nid0: what is the imap client called?16:06
nid0BCMM_ - the mail client on the n900's Modest16:06
SpeedEvilTreibholz: there is no good way to notify other apps that there is somethng else using the net though16:06
ssidI'm a chinese boy16:07
ssida new friend16:07
SpeedEvilIt would be lovely if you started a browser - and it sent a dbus message 'user initated net activity'16:07
nid0that or modest could just give the user the choice to enable imap-idle or not :(16:07
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SpeedEvilSo that anything wanting net activty which would have normally kicked off n the next 5 mins goes now16:07
TigerTaelsweet, new virtualbox16:07
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: (tab nicks) assign shift-space to nick-completion, in xchat's keybindings16:07
BCMM_mi16:07
BCMM_oops16:08
SpeedEvilmodest is opensource16:08
SpeedEvilbuild t yourself.16:08
SpeedEvilI prefer shift-rightarrow16:08
BCMM_spee16:08
BCMM_oops ag16:08
SpeedEvil(for tab)16:08
TreibholzCTRL-I16:08
RST38hjavispedro: Palm richly deserves it16:08
wiredhmm ok i assumed it was the kernel that fracked things up, but it seems its not16:09
X-FadeRST38h: he's gone.16:09
BCMM_speedevil: not working here16:09
n900EvilBCMM_: you need to setup the keybindings16:09
wiredso one thing i install (or a combination of em) makes boot fail16:10
RST38hSo am I, most of the time...16:10
wiredffff16:10
ssidGod ah, my English is poor performance, are there who can help me?16:10
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (shift-rightarrow) I need that for text markup purposes16:11
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n900Evilhttp://www.mauve.plus.com/keybindings.conf - if anyone cares.16:12
BCMM_is there copy/paste?16:12
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: you seen my advice above?16:12
n900EvilBCMM_: select wth fingers or pointer - ctrl-c16:12
* wired is going to reboot on every single change now until he finds why it explodes16:13
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DocScrutinizerBCMM_: see wiki about 'gestures and shortcuts'16:13
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DocScrutinizerwired: you smoked up your CPU by overclocking. Now please don't whine about instabilities16:15
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wiredDocScrutinizer: 1) im not whining 2) i didn't really push it that hard :)16:15
TigerTaelI wouldn't mind underclocking/undervolting.16:15
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wiredthe behavior is far from anything oc related :)16:17
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DocScrutinizerwired: ok for #1. For #2 I don't see how you're going to proove it didn't do any harm to your CPU, no matter how 'hard you pushed'16:18
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BCMM_what about copying in xterm?16:19
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ech0Asusctrl c16:19
BCMM_uh16:20
ech0Asusdidnt work?16:20
BCMM_that just sends sigterm16:20
BCMM_like a normal xterm16:20
ech0Asuserm.. need a shift lol16:20
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DocScrutinizerand actually you can't predict how a OC-caused CPU wearout will manifest16:20
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RST38hwhy? we can16:21
RST38hMost likely with random coredumps.16:21
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DocScrutinizerBCMM_: c&p in xterm is via menu16:21
BenjaminWilkhello everybody16:21
ech0Asussup milk16:21
BCMM_thanks do16:21
BCMM_docscrutinizer16:21
BenjaminWilkis there no chance, wo run .jar-files on a maemo-based mobile phone like the nokia n900??16:22
BenjaminWilkreally no chance?16:22
BenjaminWilkcant believe that16:22
BenjaminWilk:-/16:22
X-Fade~seen lizardo16:22
infobotlizardo <~lizardo@189.2.128.130> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 23h 51m 36s ago, saying: '(C is usually faster in performance)'.16:22
ech0Asusinstall easy debian and try and install java through that16:22
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ech0Asusif ur brave16:22
BenjaminWilki dont want to install easy debian...16:22
BenjaminWilkeats to much space16:22
BenjaminWilk:P16:22
jacekowskiwired: you are 1st to fuck up his phone by oc16:23
jacekowskicongratulations16:23
ech0Asuswell java works on firefox with easy debian16:23
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jacekowskihow does it make you feel?16:23
ech0Asusnot sure if java works outside of that with it but its only thing i now to suggest..16:23
BenjaminWilkcan i download the 2,5 gb debian image?16:23
BenjaminWilkdont want to download it via handy16:23
ech0Asusyes u can download it on another computer and usb it16:23
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BCMM_is there a simple way to get more command-line stuff16:23
BenjaminWilkwhere16:23
ech0Asuslink was on maemo talk16:23
jacekowskiif you would build normal java outside of easy debina16:23
BCMM_i mean, bash for example16:24
BenjaminWilkyes?16:24
jacekowskiit should work in chromium16:24
BCMM_host would benice too16:24
marmouteBCMM_: you have bash.16:24
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: bash is in extras-devel repository16:24
wiredDocScrutinizer: ok, agreed, it might be damaged. it still doesn't explain why it only fails to boot after i install a few packages (namely, last time it failed to boot after installing rootfs, openssh, catorise, vim and bash3)16:24
BenjaminWilki have a .jar-file which can be installed16:24
jacekowskimarmoute: that's bb16:24
wiredim testing now with stock everything (nothing installeD) and it does not fail16:24
wiredjacekowski: i doubt it ;)16:24
jacekowskiyet16:25
BCMM_docscrutinizer don't know about that yet - have only installed xchat and that was from gui16:25
ech0Asusall details are here http://wiki.maemo.org/Easy_Debian u can download on another computer and extract on another computer then just transfer the img file to the  n900 via usb...16:25
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marmoutejacekowski: bb ?16:26
jacekowskibusy box16:26
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ech0Asusit gives you synaptic... surely you can install java from there..16:26
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: rootsh is your friend. And apt-get16:26
Shapeshifterwhy do people care about java16:26
ech0Asusgames and bullshit hacking apps for bluetooth16:27
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: but also may turn to be a flase friend, if you don't know what you're doing16:27
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ech0Asusthey mostly want super bluetooth hack to work on there n900 lol16:27
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BenjaminWilkokay ech0Asus16:27
gouverneurBenjaminWilk: are you german? handy is used in "that comes handy" but not as mobile or cell expression16:27
BenjaminWilk:P16:27
BenjaminWilkhandy = mobile phone16:27
BenjaminWilk^^16:27
jacekowskiyou can hack bluetooth with C16:28
Shapeshifter"hack bluetooth"?16:28
Shapeshifterwhat has this to do with java?16:28
gouverneurhandy != mobile phone16:28
BenjaminWilkyes16:28
BenjaminWilkbut i meant it16:28
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DocScrutinizerBenjaminWilk: that's aGermanism16:28
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BenjaminWilki know...16:28
ech0Asusjava has crap apps newbs use to tap other phones they have access to16:28
X-FadeGerlish? :)16:29
ech0Asusnot really hacking16:29
gouverneurwhy you use it then in a english speaking channel?16:29
ech0Asusmore like installing a trojan..16:29
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: kinda16:29
BenjaminWilk-.-16:29
ghostcubeany news for cute explorer and the missing qt libs?16:29
wiredstill booting... im now really curious to see when it'll fail =]16:29
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: though actually it's a genuine German word16:29
DocScrutinizerby now16:29
Shapeshifterme when I first heard the n900 won't support java: http://i.neoseeker.com/mgv/366444-Lukaeu/444/7/awesome_display.png16:29
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: yeah, we also have some weird words like that (NL). Beamer is another famous one.16:30
gouverneurdidnt need java yet....16:30
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: Germans tend to think it's English, as it sounds like16:30
ech0Asuswonder if i can virtual box backtrack on the n900 lol16:31
BenjaminWilkit was only a mistake...16:31
ghostcubeech0Asus: aircrack is enough on N90016:31
ghostcubebt would be to hard16:31
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gouverneurlike noone in here knows Dinner for One but german speaking ppl16:32
ech0Asusaircrack is locked to chan 6 and has no bt tools16:32
DocScrutinizeryep16:32
ghostcubeeh?16:32
Treibholz"Dinner for One" rocks!16:32
ech0Asusu can't scan past chan 6 on aircrack on the n90016:32
gouverneurhey Treibholz16:32
ghostcubei scann aircrack channel 6 - 12 with all tools16:32
ech0Asusor under..16:32
ech0Asusi can't... mines locked..16:32
jacekowskigouverneur: what's wrong with dinner for one?16:32
ghostcubecause if not i wouldnt see my ap16:32
ech0Asushow did u unlock it?16:32
BenjaminWilkgerman production^^16:32
jacekowskigouverneur: what does it relate to?16:32
ghostcubei didnt -.-16:32
ech0Asusi installed with easy debian..16:33
ech0Asusu?16:33
DocScrutinizeryou can *scan* waht you like, but you'll get #chan6 results only16:33
ghostcubefrom repo inside extra devel16:33
gouverneurdinner for one isn't known outside german speaking countries16:33
ghostcubeDocScrutinizer?? i can get my ap to be realized in airplay16:33
ech0Asusit's got some firmware issue which has monitor mode locked to chan 6....16:33
ghostcubeso if i would be chained to 6 this won be16:33
gouverneurso is the word "handy" for mobile phone, not even swiss use it16:34
jacekowskigouverneur: you mean "table for one"16:34
jacekowski?16:34
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gouverneurno16:34
ech0Asuscan you pastebin a scan of more then chan 6?16:34
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ghostcubewe use handy as cellphone replacement here16:34
DocScrutinizerghostcube: I can't verify with pr1.1.1 atm, but I've seen this chan6 issue myself16:34
ech0Asuscause if so then we just need to find out why yours is working like that16:34
DocScrutinizersome months ago16:34
ghostcubeech0Asus: ehm must check this later but i get all traffic from my ap on channel 10 o.O16:35
ghostcubeand 1216:35
gouverneurdinner for one is a newyears comedy act produced in germany and it's done like it is some british one16:35
ghostcubeso i dont get it but maybe iam wrong and its on 6 and airplay can see it16:35
DocScrutinizerand what's the channel reported?16:35
ghostcubeshouldnt be but who knows16:35
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ech0Asusi have 30 ap's in range of me, none pick up but chan 6 on my n90016:35
ghostcube10 and 12 DocScrutinizer16:35
DocScrutinizerstrange, nah fine16:36
ech0Asushowever on my asus that is not issue, i can scan them all16:36
wazdhello people16:36
Shapeshiftergouverneur: uhm... the swiss do use the term "handy" for mobile phone16:36
ghostcubei dont get it ech0Asus you tested the reo version not in easy debian ?16:36
ech0Asussup16:36
DocScrutinizerhi wazd16:36
ghostcuberepo16:36
ech0Asusi tested the repo version as well16:36
ech0Asuswas locked on chan 616:36
ghostcubehmm strange need to check this later at home16:36
ech0Asusthen i tested with easy debian, same issue16:36
gouverneurShapeshifter: yes nowadays but they used to say natel16:37
Shapeshiftermany still do, I know ;)16:37
ech0Asusyeah my n900 is a beast on channel 6 though lol16:37
ghostcube:D16:37
gouverneuror depends on the region maybe16:37
Shapeshiftergouverneur: now they also say "iphone" :P16:37
ech0Asusgreat for gettin handshake packets to take home and crack...16:37
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ech0Asuslong as ur on #6... :(16:37
gouverneurShapeshifter: thats so stupid16:37
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* ShadowJK has 3 APs in range, on non-overlapping channels16:38
DocScrutinizergovthat's also my idea16:38
DocScrutinizergouverneur: ^^16:38
ech0Asusit's a 2WIRE zoo over there16:38
DocScrutinizerghostcube: what's your fw region?16:38
gouverneurjust thinking of doing an iMan tshirt16:38
ghostcubegermany16:38
ghostcubeeurope16:38
DocScrutinizerhmm, same here16:39
ech0Asusi have over 30 ap's i can test on lol16:39
pupnikwould be nice if all these aps could just share the bandwidth16:39
ghostcubestrange thing really will set later monitor on and check16:39
ghostcubeat work now16:39
ech0Asuswould be cool if i had an adapter that could access all of them at once and bridge the connection :) hell yeah!16:39
gouverneurpupnik: you could use one for up and one for down16:39
* DocScrutinizer curses flat-plastic-cables and wanders off to shout some nasty swearwords in the cellar16:40
* ghostcube loves his ssh server16:41
ghostcube:D16:41
ech0Asusgrr 98.5% done witht he rainbow tables.. takin forever...16:42
ptlhttp://twitter.com/bundyo/status/12093830311 - "In next three days - release which will enable premium Maemo content in Ovi Store. Maybe PR1.2 hint. #nafb"16:42
ech0Asuslike day 3 now16:42
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pooutls16:42
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ptlhttp://twitter.com/bundyo/status/12098753092 - Another mention that PR1.2 for N900 will be released in ¨one of the next days¨. #nafb16:43
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* gouverneur is seeing dead ppl and PR1.216:43
ech0Asuswill pr1.2 require reflashing?16:43
ghostcubePR1.2 -.-16:43
ghostcubeyes16:43
ghostcubei still dont belive it till its here16:44
ghostcube:D16:44
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ech0Asusi'm more excited for backtrack mobile lol16:44
ech0Asuswhich is prolly waitin on pr1.2 tho...16:44
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* achipa thinks Waiting for PR1.2 is the sequel to Waiting for Godot16:47
wiredlol... i found what hosed the system16:47
avee_But will PR1.2 will run Duke Nukem Forever?16:48
fralsptl: whos that bundyo? as ahe doesnt quote a source16:48
DocScrutinizer>>Welcome to the National Association of Farm Broadcasting (www.nafb.com). We're just getting started.<<16:48
ptlfr01: I do not have the slightest idea, someone on tmo said he's from nokia staff16:49
ptloops16:49
ptlfrals: I do not have the slightest idea, someone on tmo said he's from nokia staff16:49
TigerTaelnice16:49
frals"someone said" check16:49
ptllol16:49
ptlyep16:49
ptlI don't said to give it confidence16:49
TigerTaelYo mamma said.16:49
ptljust felt like quoting it here16:50
ptlI don't said --> agh! I didn't say16:50
ech0Asusn900 is cool but i don't see why you'd want to play games on it.. unless you want to carry a wireless controller.. buttons on the n900 suck for gaming, would honestly just piss me off tryin to really play a game on that thing..16:50
TigerTaelAll I want: Bugs fixed, Turn by turn navigation.16:50
ptlAll I want: bugs fixed, repositories working again16:50
TigerTaelOh, and better battery life would be nice. ;]16:51
Treibholzimap idle16:51
ech0Asusturn by turn navigation get sygics16:51
TreibholzCalDAV16:51
TigerTaelech0Asus, doesn't support my country...16:51
TigerTaelAnd I don't want to pay more, thanks.16:51
TigerTaelSo your solution is a no-go.16:51
ptlalso I want a redhaired girl with thick legs and large breasts16:51
Treibholzech0Asus: how much is sygics?16:51
TigerTaelptl, ew.16:52
fralsah, they hinted at nokia app forum bulgaria it might happen16:52
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DocScrutinizerptl: google for Zappa's 'big leg emma' ;-P16:52
TigerTaelfrals, I expect turn by turn from Nokia as they have committed it to the symbian platforms.16:52
fralslol16:52
TigerTaelBut they sure are dragging their heels. ;/16:52
ech0Asusyou guys know about transmission right?16:53
fralsmy comment was about pr1.2 in the next few days16:53
ech0Asusand how to use it...16:53
nid0yes16:53
TigerTael"Navigation on your Nokia. For Free. Forever."16:53
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ech0Asusok well there u go thats how much sygics costs...16:53
nid0...16:53
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achipathey have a window of opportunity - navigation for the N900 from Nokia will arrive at the end of the year at best16:54
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ech0Asuslinux is free, commercial pisses me off on it.. just torrent that shit treibholz...16:54
TigerTaelachipa, I'm not estimating a time, I just want it. ;]16:54
achipa(as they are writing it for Harmattan)16:54
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TigerTaelI know for a fact that Ovi Maps turn by turn navigation works in my country, just not on the N900 because OVI maps is very basic atm.16:56
peetahech0Asus: then where did you steal your n900 ?16:56
TigerTaelIt's just a matter of programming the app. ;/16:56
achipaech0Asus: for nav the real cost for the publisher is in the maps. Somebody has to pay for them, it's not really about Freedom, them satellites won't fly on their own nor get the maps updated...16:56
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TigerTaelWell it's free for other Nokia mobile phones with GPS and the N900 being a high-end device, I would expect it. ;/16:57
achipathat does not explain why *sygic* should be free :)16:58
ptlDocScrutinizer: I've read the lyrics, really, I think it's worse to date a thin girl. My preferred style is like that: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nVEel9W7iZo/SP-bv5SupYI/AAAAAAAAAMU/FBVpLB1S4D4/s400/mulher_melancia1.jpg - you can say it's sort of brazilian style, specially in Rio de Janeiro and Salvador16:58
Treibholzech0Asus: freedom has nothing to do with torrents...16:58
DocScrutinizer[2010-04-13 10:55:20] <Scelt> konttori: how about ovi maps 3 for N900? is it in progress at all?  [2010-04-13 10:56:29] <konttori> to be honest, I am not exactly sure. They were working on it to some degree, but I wasn't exactly certain that did they decide to halt the development or not. It's part of the applications teams work, so I didn't pay too much attention to that, as I don't use it myself.    [2010-04-13 10:57:40] <konttori> is that16:58
DocScrutinizeruninformative enough? In theory, they are doing their app with web runtime, so it should be the same app for all nokia platforms, so, ... anyway, you can email simone.leggio@nokia.com to ask. He's heading the applications team for n900.16:58
TigerTaelachipa, yeah, I never said sygic should be free.16:58
TigerTaelI don't want Sygic, I want Ovi Maps to be updated. ;p16:58
TigerTaelDocScrutinizer, thank you, I will email now.16:58
ech0Asusmeh redhats..16:59
TreibholzI want to be able to download a full country. Data-Roaming in other countries is damn expensive.17:00
* ShadowJK doubts ovi maps on s60 is wrt based..17:00
ShadowJKor maybe they rewrote it17:00
RST38hIt is not17:00
TigerTaelMail sent.17:01
ech0Asusgrr stupid nagra3 i want to watch tv again...17:02
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pupnikend tv17:03
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* DocScrutinizer envisions simone kicking konttori down the Nokia office stairs17:03
ech0Asusi don't like regular tv but it was cool being able to watch local channels from all over the us...17:04
ech0Asusand canadian tv isn't bad...17:04
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ech0Asusi prefer their techtv channel, has more brainfood instead of retards playin video games like the usa channel...17:05
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DocScrutinizerwell, someone posted his notion about why US-Americans love portrait mode...17:06
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ech0Asusi hate it, i only have it with the phone part cause its built in...17:06
ech0Asusif its not going to be fully supported i'd rather it not be supported at all its a pain...17:07
TigerTaelIt's a bit annoying not having portrait mode for telephone conversations.17:07
gouverneur????17:07
shvedskyDocScrutinizer: why's that?17:07
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ShadowJKMy operator broke 2g yesterday... even with just openvpn doing a ping every 20s, and even with the mugen battery, getting through the day would have been difficult had I not disconnected from intarwebs :/17:07
ech0Asusi dont understand why my contact list wont turn to portait.. what is the point of it being all short...17:07
TigerTaelech0Asus, agreed.17:08
DocScrutinizercheck http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog, I'll not repeat that17:08
ech0Asusreadin17:08
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* ShadowJK 's contact list seems to work in portrait17:08
TigerTaeloh?17:08
gouverneurif you use the phone ap instead of the contacts app17:09
TigerTaelYeah, it does work in that case.17:09
ech0Asusbookmarked will come in handy17:09
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yeah, 20s pings keep alive 3G all the time17:09
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: would result in some 4..5h with normal battery17:10
ech0Asusbut why not have the contact app be like the one in the phone app... its way better...17:10
ShadowJKportrait mode annoys me a bit.. when someone calls and I pick up phone and it decides to rotate I have to wait extra 2s before pushing the big red "I'm busy" button17:10
TigerTaelWhy not combine the phone and contact app? :P17:10
TigerTaelShadowJK, so it's actually the delay that's annoying?17:10
ShadowJKyeah17:10
TigerTaelI find the rotate delay to be annoying as well.17:11
ech0Asusyeah exactly.. just a shortcut link to the phones apps contact page would work...17:11
ShadowJKbut on the other hand if there was no delay it'd mistake all sorts of movement for attitude17:11
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: disable auto-rotate17:11
ShadowJKit can't distinguish rotation from acceleartion really :)17:11
ech0Asushow to disable auto-rotate?17:11
ech0Asuswould love to17:11
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DocScrutinizerdunno, no N900 owner here17:12
nid0ShadowJK: if the rotation delay is annoying, remove it17:12
TigerTaelIn the Phone app settings...17:12
ptlech0Asus: where? In phone? In browser?17:12
TigerTaelYou can disable 'Automatic'.17:12
nid0the rotation animation's fully configurable via transitions.ini17:12
ShadowJKphone _ turning control17:12
TigerTael'Turning Control'17:12
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TigerTaelnid0, for all apps I presume.17:13
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DocScrutinizer~nid0++17:13
nid0transition.ini's rotation control functions will control the graphic animation/delays for all switches between portrait<>landscape17:13
ech0Asuscool got it17:13
ech0Asusthanks... was lookin way in wrong place for that17:14
TigerTaellol, got some nice graphics corruption on the one switch animation.17:14
TigerTaelOpening the keyboard switches to landscape as well, btw.17:14
nid0if you set the fade-in / fade-out delays to 0 and the rotation angle to 0, then there's no switch animation or delay anymore, it just flicks straight from landscape to portrait and vice versa17:14
TigerTaelI assume it's fast?17:15
nid0for all practical purposes it's instant17:15
DocScrutinizernid0: is this documented anywhere in wiki?17:15
TigerTaelWhere is this file exactly?17:16
nid0http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Transitions is about all that's mentioned in the wiki17:16
TigerTaelhildon-desktop17:16
nid0the file itself is well commented to specify exactly what every option does though17:16
nid0and there've been a couple of threads recently on tmo discussing alterations to the transitions17:16
DocScrutinizer~lart tmo17:16
* infobot cuts off tmo's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper17:16
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TigerTaelnid0, where is the file located?17:17
ech0Asusthis sim card still has 3g lol17:17
nid0/usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini17:17
ech0Asusalthough the phone has not been paid in over a week17:17
javispedrobut the issue is not the animation, but as ShadowJK mentioned, the period it's doing nothing waiting to ensure you really did put it in portrait17:17
ech0Asusphone is off, messaging is off... 3g works...17:17
TigerTaelnid0, ah...17:17
larsiviI have used the 5.0 installer to install scratchbox+maemo, but trying to apt-get qt stuff fails (wrong deps it seems)17:18
larsivianyone know where I'm going wrong?17:18
MohammadAGis #maemo back to normal now? :)17:18
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TigerTaelbetter make a backup. :D17:18
ech0Asusskype works on it still.. has not been capped on speed either...17:18
ghostcubeMohammadAG: has it ever been ?17:18
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TreibholzMohammadAG: no OC-Talk for some minutes...17:19
nid0TigerTael: rotation configuration is quite near the bottom under the # Screen rotation transition comment17:19
ech0Asusuntil this stops working this will be my phone lol... skype with 3g from expired tmo sim card haha17:19
nid0there're 6 values, and essentially if you put them all to 0 then you get instant flicks between portrait<>landscape17:19
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: it ever been? define 'normal'17:20
TigerTaelnid0, thanks, looking at it now.17:20
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, pre-today normal :)17:20
* MohammadAG wonders if crashanddie_ "took his pills" :P17:21
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achipajavispedro: would be cool if we had enough battery to do orientation via facial recognition - orientation determined by the line of the eyes17:21
* DocScrutinizer fails to spot any particular madness in #maemo today17:21
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javispedroachipa: yeah17:22
DocScrutinizerachipa: that's actually a brilliant idea17:22
DocScrutinizerachipa: alas the aux cam probably just is too crappy17:23
achipaDocScrutinizer: tell me about the front cam... aaanyway, should be good enough for those purposes17:23
DocScrutinizerpower consumption shouldn't be a main issue17:24
achipathe idea was born when I realized the orientation is always (murphy) wrong then the device is flat on the table17:24
DocScrutinizeryou can 'pulse' - means 90% off 10% on17:24
ShadowJKthose digicams that are supposed to detect the location of faces for focus... I've never seen them spot an actual face, how are those awesome machine vision algorithms going to determine orientation of face when it fails so hard on finding face :D17:25
X-FadeShadowJK: My Canon Ixus does detect faces quite well.17:25
TigerTaelI would say there's a 500msec blank in between switches.17:25
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: OMNIA maincam as well17:25
X-FadeShadowJK: Even multiple faces at the same time.17:25
achipaShadowJK: also, we're in a better position - people are in front and at a guessable distance17:26
DocScrutinizerOMNIA even does 'smile detect auto-shoot'17:26
ShadowJKcanon powershot fails at it :)17:26
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Mine has blink detection and doesn't shoot when you frown.17:26
X-FadeSad face detection too.17:26
ShadowJKonce it put a rectangle around a beer can. I took the hint17:26
achipaNikon got sued because some cameras always warned about Asians people 'blinking'17:27
DocScrutinizerlol17:27
achipaAsian*17:27
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nid0well there was that youtube video a few months ago as well about problems with HP's laptop webcams' auto face following17:29
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nid0that wouldnt follow black people or even see that theyre there17:29
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TigerTaellol17:29
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bullet`crashanddie_ there ?17:30
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DocScrutinizerdon't wake him! ;-P17:31
achipafirefox just blew up in my face, duh...17:31
TigerTaelEish, when you scroll the virtual desktops really fast, you eventually end up with a blank desktop behind the last selected one.17:31
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DocScrutinizererr?17:32
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TigerTaelonly whilst transitioning.17:32
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TigerTaelIt's like drawing a blank (black) desktop right behind the one it's currently transitioning to.17:33
DocScrutinizeraah, seems you'd need a video to attach to THAT ticket17:33
TigerTaelYeah, I don't think it's got to do with my rotation transition settings I just modified...17:33
massoudhey there17:34
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TigerTaelIf I do it fast, continously, I eventually end up with a black/blank screen whilst it continues transitioning.17:34
massoudanyone knows where to get the source code for "wifi switcher" for n900 -> the greatest package to save the batt on the n900 :)17:34
massoudi am wondering how the kernel module is disable the wlan interface17:34
SpeedEvilmassoud: if your AP isn't great17:35
BCMM_is it possible to copy numbers from my sim card to my n900?17:35
TigerTaelI am playing music in the background... don't think that should affect it.17:35
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BCMM_dunno how else to get them off my 341017:35
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: I seem to remember there's acopy_from_sim option somewhere17:36
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TigerTaelHrm, music paused (mp3), and the problem is less persistent.17:36
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: maybe in sync_contacts from settings17:36
TigerTaeloh wait, there we go, got it to do it again.17:36
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DocScrutinizerBCMM_: or somewhere in contacts' menu17:37
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BCMM_docscrutinizer what do you mean by " sync_contacts from settings"?17:38
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: there's also 'import contacts from other device, via BT'17:38
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BCMM_docscrutinizer other phone is a 341017:38
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BCMM_good for calls, texts, self-defence at a pinch, but thats it17:39
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: sorry, can't check right now, no N900 here ATM17:39
BCMM_black and white, no nluetooth no memory cards17:39
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DocScrutinizerBCMM_: anyway there's 'copy from SIM' somewhere17:40
JaffaHi, anyone aware of problems using gconftool-2 in postinsts in Scratchbox? Either via HAM, or apt-get, the lack of a working D-Bus connection scuppers it17:40
MohammadAGContacts > title bar/menu > Get contacts17:40
MohammadAGI think17:40
DocScrutinizeryep17:41
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javispedroJaffa: do you have the UI booted up?17:42
BCMM_MohammadAG thanks17:42
BCMM_copying17:43
Jaffajavispedro: Yup17:44
BCMM_well, rebooting with new sim17:45
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javispedroJaffa: weirdo, drnoksnes does install gconf schemas with conftool and it seems to work :P17:45
Jaffajavispedro: Anything weird other than gconfgtool-2 ...?17:45
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javispedroiirc it has something like if [ "$1" = "configure" ]; thengconf-schemas --register drnoksnes.schemas17:47
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Jaffajavispedro: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=hermes;a=blob;f=package/debian/hermes.postinst;h=aa2d4f3e219c51c908f7a808757925e1c8a25390;hb=0f1a18a9c0e2f6fb72fbba75ee46663422d3613a is mine17:47
javispedroso you need to run-standalone.sh that I guess17:48
javispedro(and also I learnt that installing schemas doesn't need a d-bus connection :) )17:49
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DocScrutinizerrun-standalone.sh makes a lot of sense17:50
javispedrowait, it tries to use system bus?17:50
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javispedrostill, it works here when run-standalone.sh 'd .17:52
javispedroDocScrutinizer: I'm sure that's from the very first days :)17:52
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DocScrutinizerhhmmm, aiui you'd need the user-session environment to do certain things related to dbus and other session-specific services17:54
Yggdrasillhello17:54
Yggdrasilldoes somebody know if there is a way to have synergy (the client) running on a n900 ?17:55
TreibholzYggdrasill: you need to compile it in the SDK17:55
Treibholzshould work.17:55
YggdrasillTreibholz: yeah probably, but I'm wondering how it could be managed because on maemo there is no mouse pointer17:56
timeless_mbp1Yggdrasill: i've seen people use it17:56
Treibholzbut I guess x2x would be better.17:56
YggdrasillTreibholz: I don't know this, I'll check it out17:56
Yggdrasilltimeless_mbp1: working fine or just running ? :p17:56
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* Treibholz "sometimes" has a mousepointer, but this is a bug.17:57
Yggdrasilllol17:57
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Treibholzso it should be possible to enable it.17:58
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MohammadAGSoo...17:58
MohammadAGthe next MeeGo won't have a keyboard17:58
MohammadAG:/17:58
massoudSpeedEvil: what do you mean "AP" ?17:58
StskeepsMohammadAG: eh?17:59
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aquatixMohammadAG: meego device?17:59
MohammadAGhttp://cdn1.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/meego_handheld_feature_list.jpg17:59
aquatixah17:59
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Yggdrasillarf18:00
TreibholzMohammadAG: you mean like the iPhone? only onscreen?18:00
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Yggdrasillit sux18:00
MohammadAGTreibholz, well that's what I'm guessing18:00
MohammadAGit says Virtual keyboard18:00
MohammadAGno mention of a hardware one18:00
Treibholzso, my next device has to be an android...18:01
javispedroit also says "Intel UX design"18:01
Stskeeps..18:01
Treibholzgreat!18:01
Stskeepsthat's a far stretch for 'no keyboard'18:01
aquatixis this some tablet?18:01
Stskeepseven n900 has a virtual keyboard18:01
javispedrobut has it Location Based Service Application18:01
MohammadAGStskeeps, but they did mention a hardware keyboard18:01
MohammadAGiirc18:01
aquatixah no, 'handset'18:01
TreibholzStskeeps: where? haven't found it yet...18:02
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MohammadAGTreibholz, enable it in settings > text input18:02
* Treibholz wants hardware-keys! onscreen-keyboards suck!18:02
marmoute+118:03
MohammadAGerr18:03
MohammadAGdon't jump to conclusions18:03
MohammadAGI said I was guessing18:03
javispedroMohammadAG: I wonder why you didn't post the most provocative screenshot, which is18:03
javispedrohttp://cdn1.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/meego_handheld_ui_1.jpg18:03
MohammadAGdon't troll tmo about it18:03
MohammadAGjavispedro, I suck at marketing ;)18:04
MohammadAGbut seriously, I looked at the specs sheet first18:04
javispedrobut look at the poor dog!18:04
Treibholzjavispedro: it's an ugly dog!18:05
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DocScrutinizermy comment: FUCK that!18:05
* javispedro patiently waits for tmo's OMG UI I WANT THIS HOW I INSTALL 18:05
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DocScrutinizerthat's so clearly heading opposite direction maemo is going with the 'small desktop' approach. I don't like that *at all*18:06
ech0Asusu guys seen that commercial from samsung bout their new way of txtin? wonder if we could clone that on the n900... they broke the world record for texting with it..18:06
aquatixech0Asus: that sliding over the keyboard?18:07
ech0Asusyeah with the one finger18:07
Arkenoimaemo is not really a "small desktop", and it is good. "small desktop" was early Zaurus and it sucked big time18:08
ech0Asusif its more efficient.. then we wouldn't need keyboard at all.. cut down on size..18:09
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: well anyway meego handheld UX seems to be s/desktop/dialer app/ and that's clearly not what I want for a tablet18:09
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ech0Asusn900 is great but bulky lol18:09
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Treibholzech0Asus: thats because of the camera.18:09
Treibholznot becaus of the keyboard.18:09
javispedroDocScrutinizer: well, I somehow like it more than the harmattan sketches.18:10
aquatixlooks clean18:10
Stskeepsi wonder if they hired wazd18:10
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Stskeepshttp://tabletui.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/14.png18:10
Stskeeps:P18:10
javispedrostill, forget about this: n900+1 will have harmattan ui, not moblin.18:10
ech0Asusis like a brick though lol i could prolly knock someone out with this...18:10
aquatix:)18:10
javispedro;)18:10
DocScrutinizerech0Asus: thanks for this statement18:11
Jaffajavispedro: Needing to run-standalone it would make sense, except when started from HAM (in a user env) and that it works on device, even via SSH ;-)18:11
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wazdStskeeps: hehe18:11
aquatixmight be that the 'handheld feature list' is talking about the software18:11
MohammadAGStskeeps, 15 hours at 21%? lol18:11
aquatixas it's a MeeGo article after all18:12
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ptlmeego really seems very different from Maemo UI18:12
javispedroJaffa: yeah, dunno why it doesn't work from HAM18:12
Stskeepsptl, otoh, so was fremantle18:12
MohammadAGI'd say someone start fixing up Maemo 5 for the next maemo/meego device :p18:12
ech0Asusit feels like i have a weapon in my hand when i hold my n900 now haha18:12
aquatixech0Asus: another feature :)18:13
ptlStskeeps: but I think that apart from the application reach, maemo 5 UI is very good18:13
wazdStskeeps: I'm still one step ahead18:13
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: Jaffa AIUI HAM talks to apt running as root18:13
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Arkenoiech0Asus, it does not matter if it is "more efficient". you cannot type anything exceeding the size of short email with comfort with single finger, touch screen keyboard or *anything* other than classic qwerty18:13
Stskeepswazd: indeed18:13
ptlby application reach I mean that you have to navigate too long to find your app18:13
wazdStskeeps: http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4440/83451808.jpg if you remember :P18:13
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javispedrowazd: indeed18:13
wazdStskeeps: and it's an old mockup already btw :)18:13
Stskeepswazd: i do occasionally ponder if i can find some way to pay you minimum wage and get you into the EU ;)18:14
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: (so was fremantle) not rally18:14
ech0Asusi dunno i had an n800 was fine without the keyboard imo, especially if you could have the texting like the new samsung...18:14
DocScrutinizerreally18:14
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Arkenoibut if you need text input for something more than "texting" it is not fine at all for sure18:15
ech0Asusi just used the stylus to txt on the n80018:15
ech0Asusactually was responsive..18:15
ptlI am not gonna comment too much on very early versions18:16
ptlbut I hope they change meego's interface to look more like current maemo 5.18:16
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ptl*except* for the app menu. :)18:16
javispedroseriouuuuuuuuusly you should look at the harmattan mockups18:17
ptlwhat would be the worst current smartphone UI?18:17
JaffaDocScrutinizer: True18:17
ptlwindows mobile 6.5?18:17
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Doesn't explain why it wortks on device but not in SB18:17
ptljavispedro: where?18:17
ech0Asusi also liked having two sd cards.. i dont see why as bulky as this thing is i don't have an external sd card slot...18:17
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Apart from "Scratchbox's shit"18:17
Arkenoisymbian touch18:17
DocScrutinizerJaffa: ok, yes18:17
ech0Asusat least for another micro...18:17
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: Don't get me wrong, I can get behind "Scratchbox's shit" ;-)18:18
wazdStskeeps: hehe :)18:18
MohammadAG<wazd> Stskeeps: http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4440/83451808.jpg if you remember :P18:18
wazdhttp://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1760/source2.png that's the latest "part"18:18
javispedroptl: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/10/091009-maemo-01.jpg18:18
* MohammadAG posts that as the MeeGo UI on tmo and waits for the "WHEN CAN WE DOWNLOAD IT" part18:18
javispedroMohammadAG: you're late18:19
MohammadAGjavispedro, ?18:19
Treibholzjavispedro: yeah! Comic-Style!18:19
MohammadAGI like it18:19
wazdMohammadAG: I'll post the whole teaser when it'll be ready18:19
* MohammadAG votes for wazd as a UI designer18:19
ptljavispedro: looks very confusing18:20
javispedro"it's not maemo! it's not maemo!"18:20
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ech0Asusman i wish i had some tools to mold a new back panel for the n900.. i want a door to open the SD card slot.. you know you would all buy it too lol..18:21
ech0Asuscould just slide like the camera cover...18:21
MohammadAGactually I want to get rid of the bulge18:22
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MohammadAGor even it out like on the N9718:22
wazdStskeeps: just read that loaned n900's will be sent to the developers at long last :)18:22
Stskeeps:nod:18:23
Stskeepshopefully you're high on the list18:23
microlithech0Asus: Only so long as it tripped the panel open switch18:23
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ech0Asusyes that would be ideal micro18:24
* Treibholz would like an n900 without a camera.18:24
wazdStskeeps: hehe, can't wait to receive scratched n900 in august with the request to ready OMWeather for MeeGo18:24
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ech0Asusthen we could use multiple sd cards easily18:24
* ptl would like an n900 with one more camera, just to see a /dev/video2 device18:24
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DocScrutinizerTreibholz: removing the maincam is easy :-P18:25
TreibholzDocScrutinizer: yes, but it has the same bulky shape...18:25
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ptlremove the battery! it will become thinner18:26
Treibholzanyway, the n900 is the best phone-like device ever, yet.18:26
DocScrutinizerTreibholz: so your requirement was oddly set18:26
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Treibholzthough there is much potential to improve.18:27
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dssterI've found a great solution for all you torrent lovers. Just get a seedbox for $13 a month and never worry about bandwith again18:28
ptl?18:28
Treibholzdsster: And I found a great solution for all spammers: go fuck yourself!18:28
ptloh18:29
ptlspam18:29
ech0Asuslol18:29
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ptlthought it was something relevant18:29
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dssterHow am i a spammer Treibholz ?18:29
DocScrutinizerTreibholz: thanks :-D18:29
ptldsster: I respectfully advise you to fornicate with your on body in the most invasive way18:29
ptls/ on / own /18:29
infobotptl meant: dsster: I respectfully advise you to fornicate with your own body in the most invasive way18:30
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* DocScrutinizer politely points dsster to channel topic18:30
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ech0Asusit's funny he thinks torrent lovers will pay for something...18:31
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dssterI just found about this recently so I thought I would get it out there18:32
DocScrutinizerit's more funny he thinks any torrent lovers in here that would care about his great solution18:32
nid0ech0Asus: because seedboxes and usenet arent, like, massively popular, rite?18:32
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ech0Asusrofl their advertised on every torrent site18:33
dssteralright just forget about it then. for me $10 a month for unlimited is awesome18:33
dssterFor me it's worth it. Only for me not you18:33
ech0Asusthey are just as known18:33
ech0Asusno need to advertise that anywhere18:33
ech0Asusnot like he's goin to make cash of it..18:33
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ech0Asusdsster you now have on file you pay to download illegal shit18:34
ech0Asusenjoy your time in jail one day lol18:34
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* DocScrutinizer TOPIC!18:35
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ech0Asusk, sorry lol.. anyways whats new today doc?18:36
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ptldsster: what's the app you use for torrents on your maemo device?18:39
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dssterI am still waiting for it :( it's in the mail18:40
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dssterIn my mind I already have it and trying to configure it for myself18:41
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dssterptl: I heard Transmition is working very well...18:44
dssterI hear*18:44
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ptllol18:47
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dssterAfter looking up heard, it is a past tense of hear so I was correct. I know irrelevant to topic but still, I thought maybe I wasn't the only one confused18:54
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MohammadAGLOL there's no calculator on the iPad18:57
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threshyou can do calculations in google, MohammadAG18:57
MohammadAGwhat if I'm out of internet coverage ;)18:58
threshwhy would you need ipad then ;)18:58
nid0or the like 500 calculator apps in the app store18:58
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ptlthat's not much of a bad decision18:59
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dssterDoes anyone here own a class 10 microSDHC card? if so how is it performing on the n900?18:59
ptlpeople who need the calculator will get it18:59
nid0if there's a wide variety of a certain type of application in the store, it's in apple's interests not to include it on the device18:59
glassnot a programmable calculator though18:59
glassremember no extra runtimes buahahaha19:00
nid0makes the store look better + more attractive, and brings in extra cash for them19:00
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: on android and foulfruit phones you're fucked without coverage anyway19:01
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, well the iPhone drops coverage in the covered areas :P19:02
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MohammadAG(so you're fooked all the time) :)19:02
* MohammadAG failed19:02
MohammadAGFile-roller doesn't open .tar.gz s on the N900 x.x19:02
* javispedro thinks you should get xarchiver from diablo and start from ther19:03
MohammadAGbut it works on the SDK19:03
javispedrowill be easier to make a sane guy19:03
javispedroerr... *gui.19:03
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DocScrutinizeror mc19:04
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opdf2i know there are qr barcode apps, but is there one that lets me make a barcode of my contact information?19:04
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, mc is terminal based afaik19:04
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DocScrutinizeropdf2: now that's a funny idea :-)19:05
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: yep19:05
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nid0opdf2: you can generate barcodes with any text content you want19:05
opdf2is it in any of the repo?19:06
MohammadAGwow the xarchiver source is the weirdest I've ever seen19:06
nid0eh?19:06
opdf2i know i can make an image on my computer19:06
nid0theres like 54690469048 websites that have barcode generators19:06
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opdf2im wondering if there was a specific app19:06
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DocScrutinizeropdf2: probably not, as there's no obvious usecase for barcodes generated on N90019:08
opdf2ty19:08
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nid0considering you can just generate them through the browser anyway, should you need to19:09
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opdf2yeah i have been, still just wondering if there was an app19:09
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opdf2but theres not19:09
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cehtehsince texlive is ported to n900 i bet there is a barecode package for it19:09
DocScrutinizeryep, was thinking along same line19:10
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cehtehwould be bit bloated to have a full texlive installation to generate barcodes .. but well :)19:10
DocScrutinizerbarcode fontsets etc19:10
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cehtehthere is a barecode generator in pure postscript somewhere19:11
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cehtehhttp://www.terryburton.co.uk/barcodewriter/19:11
MohammadAGjavispedro, well the open dialog is better19:12
javispedroMohammadAG: consider that the n900 doesn't have coreutils but the sdk does. xarchivar installed gnu versions of some tools, gtar for example19:12
MohammadAGother than that19:12
MohammadAGnada19:12
DocScrutinizeropdf2: what you're planning to do?19:12
MohammadAGjavispedro, good point19:12
nid0tbh, itd take 5 minutes to knock up an app to generate qr barcodes using google's chart api19:12
opdf2i made a barcode of my contact information so people could just scan it for my info19:12
nid0would need a net connection to work, but would be tiny19:12
Treibholzjavispedro: you can install gnu-coreutils19:12
javispedro.... which doesn't matter if the gui isn't using them.19:13
MohammadAGTreibholz, yes he said that19:13
Treibholzoh, sorry...19:13
DocScrutinizerOptX: sounds like a nice project19:13
MohammadAG<javispedro> MohammadAG: consider that the n900 doesn't have coreutils but the sdk does. xarchivar installed gnu versions of some tools, gtar for example19:13
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MohammadAGgtar is part of gcoreutils afaik19:13
TreibholzMohammadAG: there ist coreutils and gnu-coreutils. gnu-coreutils doesn't conflict with busybox, which makes it nicer :-)19:14
DocScrutinizerI installed proper tar yesterday (to create backup before saying goddbye to my N900). Wasn't in coreutils19:14
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, gcoreutils19:15
DocScrutinizerkk19:15
* Treibholz is wondering, why his backup with rsnapshot didn't worl last night...19:15
MohammadAGactually19:15
MohammadAGyou're right19:15
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ptlsaying goodbye? What happened to your n900?19:15
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it doesn't have them x.x19:15
MohammadAGhe murdered it19:15
ptlhow?19:16
DocScrutinizersshhhhhh19:16
* MohammadAG stays shut19:16
MohammadAG:)19:16
DocScrutinizerfriggin flat-pastic-connector broke. Those are too flimpsy obviously19:17
ptl:-|19:17
ptloh, you sent to Nokia to fix?19:17
ptlthat will take ages19:17
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DocScrutinizeryeah :-/19:17
dsster10 days from what i read19:17
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EbzzryHi! Is there a 'todo' app that has an audible alarm?19:19
nid0the calendar has a to-do list19:20
DocScrutinizerEbzzry: maybe you want to have a look to alarmed app19:20
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javispedroaha, a page in a few seconds.19:22
javispedrohow many posts for the two unexplainable meego screenshots thread?19:22
BCMMi have a little "no entry" sign in the status bit (the bit with the signal strength and so on)19:22
javispedroplace your bets, ladies and gentleman.19:22
BCMMwhat does it mean?19:22
BCMM(i am currently connected to wifi and to a linux machine using usb networking)19:22
BCMMqfree19:23
javispedroBCMM: means that any instant messaging protocol failed to connect19:23
BCMMwrong window, sorry19:23
BCMMjavispedro: ah, thanks19:23
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javispedroBCMM: unless it sits right below the signal bar, in which case it means "plane mode"19:23
javispedroaka cellmo disabled19:24
DocScrutinizerBCMM: your online-accounts like SIP, jabber etc aren't able to connect19:24
BCMMmaybe it doesn't like me being logged into skype on a computer at the same time19:24
BCMMwhich would be odd, because you can have as many computers as you like logged in at once...19:24
javispedrothat works here19:24
javispedroprobably temporary error, bring in the presence applet and disconnect/reconnect19:25
BCMMpresence applet - where?19:26
BCMMsorry, total newbie19:26
BCMMphone arrived today19:26
EbzzryDocScrutinizer: pardon me, but what were you referring to?19:26
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DocScrutinizerEbzzry: a nice 'little' app to set all sorts of timed events, including alarms and notifications19:27
BCMMah there we go19:27
EbzzryDocScrutinizer: and what is the name of that app?19:28
nid0errr19:28
nid0he gave you it's name19:29
nid0and I gave you another option19:29
BCMMhah, neglected teh possibility that there was actually no 'net connection19:29
BCMMprobably doesn't like being on wifi and usb at the same time19:29
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DocScrutinizerEbzzry: 'alarmed' is the name. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4659419:31
DocScrutinizerBCMM: routing may be messed up19:32
BCMMDocScrutinizer: yeah, it got happier when i dis/reconnected the wifi after setting up USB networking19:32
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BCMMwhen i'm at my own desk again, i'll set up my computer to act as a gateway19:33
MohammadAGjavispedro, now you got me into porting gnutar and rest of the dependencies grr19:33
MohammadAG:p19:33
javispedrowhy don't ya just pull the diablo packages and push them to fremantle19:33
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: huh? My tar of yesterday was fine, except it wasn't in $PATH19:34
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MohammadAGgnutar19:34
MohammadAGgnutar, gnuzip, bzip2, zip, unzip, unrar, arj, lha, p7zip, lzma19:35
MohammadAGwell that confirms it19:36
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MohammadAGREJECTED: The same or newer version (tar 1.22-2maemo5) is already in extras-devel19:36
hrwX-Fade: how goes symbols squeeze sdk?19:36
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javispedrohrw: we're testing how many packages the squeeze devkit kills19:37
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# /usr/bin/gnu/tar -t -f /media/mmc1/backup/repair.tgz19:37
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ^^^19:38
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javispedrohrw: the symbols files themselves are done19:38
EbzzryDocScrutinizer: I'm getting this though: http://imgur.com/070ev.png19:38
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, thanks :)19:38
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MohammadAGEbzzry, disable -devel19:39
DocScrutinizerEbzzry: friggin PR1.2 autobuilder megabork19:39
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: alarmed is in devel :-P19:40
andrewfblackanyway to see most downloaded programs in extras on maemo.org?19:40
* MohammadAG fails yet again19:40
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MohammadAGcan build it for PR1.1.119:40
MohammadAGbut let me finish xarchiver first19:40
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: ^^^19:40
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* MohammadAG wonders what DocScrutinizer was pointing at19:41
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: <Ebzzry> DocScrutinizer: I'm getting this though: http://imgur.com/070ev.png19:42
EbzzryMohammadAG:  alarmed is in -devel19:43
MohammadAGoh19:43
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MohammadAGEbzzry, was it necessary to point my fail again? ;)19:43
MohammadAGwill build it in a bit19:43
EbzzrySorry, I got disconnected and didn't see the scrollback.19:44
EbzzryFor -testing?19:44
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if maybe jebba's mirror has stopped syncing to keep it in a useable state...19:45
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smhargreetings19:48
smharI am wondering if Nokia will ever release an arabic keyboard (physical) now that they are planning a new device already19:48
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microlithsmhar: only Nokia knows19:49
javispedroalias reg=gconftool-219:49
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MohammadAGEbzzry, mohammadag.ucoz.com/maemo/alarmed_0.1.8-3_all.deb19:50
MohammadAGEbzzry, http://mohammadag.ucoz.com/maemo/alarmed_0.1.8-3_all.deb19:50
EbzzryMohammadAG:  Thanks. I'll fetch it now.19:50
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MohammadAGsmhar, arabic isn't officially supported, so I doubt it19:50
MohammadAGnp19:50
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andre__smhar, "already" sounds funny in your sentence19:51
khertanheya !19:51
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smharandre__, because this is my experience with Nokia, as soon as I purchase a mobile they announce a replacement19:52
andre__haha, okay :)19:53
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EbzzryIt complains about pyside-qt4-* not being installed.19:53
EbzzryMohammadAG:  It complains about pyside-qt4-* not being installed.19:53
MohammadAGapt-get -f install19:55
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MohammadAGwhy were all the old packages cleaned :/19:56
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DocScrutinizer[2010-04-13 18:39:52] <DocScrutinizer> Ebzzry: friggin PR1.2 autobuilder megabork19:57
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khertanbecause i think of bug in maemo.org/packages19:57
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, my package should work19:57
javispedroDocScrutinizer: what does pyside have anything to do with it?19:57
khertansometimes use old icon, old description, old bugtracker link19:57
khertanbut i think also is too reduce size of extras-devel size index on rootfs19:58
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: no idea, just guessing here. Can't check/confirm19:58
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khertanin prevision of a futur pr1.2 release19:58
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* slonopotamus hates hitting bugs in libs :(19:58
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, built it using the PR1.1.1 SDK, so again, it should work :)19:58
khertans/too/to19:58
khertan~ping19:58
infobot~pong19:58
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: 'it' here is what exactly?19:59
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> Ebzzry, http://mohammadag.ucoz.com/maemo/alarmed_0.1.8-3_all.deb19:59
MohammadAGthat20:00
DocScrutinizerwell, the pyside libs simply aren't installed on Ebzzry's device I guess20:00
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> apt-get -f install20:01
EbzzryWhere can I get them?20:01
MohammadAG:)20:01
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EbzzryI did that, but it doesn't work.20:01
MohammadAGEbzzry, do the command above :/20:01
MohammadAGapt-get -f install20:01
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MohammadAGwhat does it say?20:01
DocScrutinizersyntax error, missing mandatory argument <package> ?20:02
EbzzryMohammadAG: it asks permission to remove alarmed. If I hit yes, then install alarmed later, I'm back at square one.20:03
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MohammadAGEbzzry, after doing that, dpkg -i it again, then tell me which package conflicts20:03
khertandid you know any pyqt app available on the n900 ?20:04
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MohammadAGkhertan, healthcheck?20:06
khertanit s pygtk, isn't it ?20:06
lcukno20:06
MohammadAGnope, Qt20:06
khertanoh ... i ll check it so :)20:06
khertani ve many strange problem with my qt dev20:07
* MohammadAG facepalms20:07
khertanso i ll look if it s happen also on it :)20:07
MohammadAGnow pyside packages are broken20:07
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fralshmpf20:07
MohammadAG1.2 needs to come out, quick!20:07
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: :-P20:07
fralsusing osso_abook functions is 0.1sec slower on load then the ebook20:07
khertanhum ... ouf ... mine was installed before20:07
frals:(20:07
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MohammadAGyay I cached previous debs20:08
* frals blames lcuk20:08
khertanbut some things arent working with release 0.220:08
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: friggin repo autobuilder megabork needs a fix, last week!!!20:08
khertanlike the QSyntaxHilighter20:08
MohammadAGNokia-N900-02-8:/home/opt/var/cache/apt/archives# ls pyside*20:08
MohammadAGpyside-qt4-base_0.2.3-1maemo3_armel.deb20:08
MohammadAGpyside-qt4-core_0.2.3-1maemo3_armel.deb20:08
MohammadAGand the rest of them20:08
MohammadAGXD20:08
lcukfrals, blaming me for what exactly20:08
fralslizardo: your example works great, cheers :)20:08
Ebzzrygah20:09
fralslcuk: using the proper osso_abook functions to get name from contact adds 0.1s to loading time of fmms!20:09
MohammadAGEbzzry, gimme a sec20:09
javispedrofrals: ditch python! ;)20:09
lcuk!20:09
MohammadAG0.1s, you timed that? lol20:09
* timeless_mbp tries an over the air ssu20:09
lcukyou will gave over 9000 seconds20:09
lcukgain even20:10
khertanok i got the same problem with healthcheck20:10
fralsMohammadAG: yes20:10
Ebzzrypyside-qt4-(base|core|maemo5|gui) is not installed.20:10
fralsjavispedro: i blame osso_abook in this case!20:10
khertanseems it to come from .my pyqt, pyside or qt binding problem20:10
javispedrohow you dare blame some C library!20:10
MohammadAGEbzzry, yes, they're broken too, I have them cached20:10
fralsi think the extra time is spent waiting for the aggregator to get ready, need to do some more testing i think20:11
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MohammadAGjust give me time to up them20:11
Ebzzryok20:11
lcukfrals, whats the margin of error on your 0.1s startup difference20:11
MohammadAGdpkg - warning: downgrading pyside-qt4-core from 0.3.0-1maemo1 to 0.2.3-1maemo3.20:11
* MohammadAG wonders what he's going to break20:11
khertanHum now i ve interest in Pr1.2 ... coding in pyqt :)20:11
lcukand can it be attributed to swans flying past the window or something20:11
fralsonly did 10 tests but seems +-0.02sec20:12
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MohammadAGSetting up alarmed (0.1.8-3) ...20:12
MohammadAGProcessing triggers for python-support ...20:12
MohammadAGNokia-N900-02-8:/home/opt/var/cache/apt/archives#20:12
MohammadAGtake that autobuilder!20:12
fralsonly did some simple tests, gonna see what it does to the whole application20:12
MohammadAG:)20:12
lcukofc20:12
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lcukyou may be swapping some pain initially for gain internally20:13
lcukbut feel free to blame me :) i will pass on compliments to those who require it lol20:13
fralshehe20:13
* javispedro tinks you're putting too much blame on the autobuilder. qt packages _were renamed_. those are going to break no matter what.20:13
fralswould be nice if osso_abook was opensource so it be easier to see what it does20:13
fralsanyway need to get my hair cut now, need to look proper tomorrow!20:13
javispedrofixed in MeeGo (TM)!20:14
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khertanjavispedro: /me blame nothing20:14
lcukfrals, ? gettin married?20:14
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fralshehe20:15
fralsmeeting someone i recon its worth looking proper for ;D20:16
DocScrutinizerlcuk: at marriage time you won the game, no more need to look proper20:16
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lcukfrals, ur mum doesn't mind what you look like20:16
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fralslol20:16
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MohammadAGhttp://mohammadag.ucoz.com/maemo/pyside.zip20:21
MohammadAGEbzzry,20:21
Ebzzryok20:21
MohammadAGdon't use zips, but I thought you might not know how to untar a tar.bz220:21
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EbzzryMohammadAG: what made you think that?20:22
DocScrutinizerI'd probably fail on unzip20:22
EbzzryMohammadAG: what would be the size if it was .tar.bz2? how about lzma?20:23
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lizardoguys just a small tip which might help early PySide users try the latest 0.3.0 packages from extras-devel: we could manage to test them by adding the SDK repositories to the N900 and upgrading *only* the libqt4* packages from there ... worked for PySide, but YMMV20:24
lizardowe didn't document it anywhere because it is too hack to even be put public somewhere in www.pyside.org :D20:25
MohammadAGEbzzry, it doeesn't matter in this case, since debs don't get compressed20:25
MohammadAGso: 6.5MBs20:25
MohammadAG<DocScrutinizer> I'd probably fail on unzip LOL20:25
wazdseriously, those meego mock ups are pretty weird20:25
wazdI'd say they are fake :)20:25
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khertanOuch there is so many : i can't install/update apps X on t.m.o20:26
khertanOuch there is so many : i can't install/update apps X thread on t.m.o20:26
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Triztdelete them if you can20:26
smharhow difficult is to remap the 'physical' keys, as I can have the key printed on the keyboard20:27
khertanlizardo : i m happy to ear it ... i ll so be able to start dev on device :)20:27
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khertanbefore 1.220:27
khertan:)20:27
wazdhttp://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8537/meegohandheldui1.jpg <- is shelly McGregor on hold? is +44 2456697823 here number? is it separate number on hold? How can I switch to it? How can I hang held call?20:28
MohammadAGsmhar, I think there's already an arabic keymap20:28
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wazdand why for god sake the most important info "caller's name" is so small20:28
lcukwazd looks like the call is just on hold20:28
wazdlcuk: how to pick up it then?20:29
wazdlcuk: end call? :)20:29
smhargreat, so I just need to imprint the arabic alphanum  on it20:29
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lcukwazd i dunno20:30
MohammadAGsmhar, download ukeyboard20:30
Kegetyswhy is there a dog on it, I dont want a dog on it20:30
lcukwazd, look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZmkuuFKz5s at 1:20 there is a bit about very similar call screen20:30
MohammadAGit comes by default20:30
DocScrutinizersmhar: seems printing new symbols on the caps isn't working too good with backlight20:30
smharMohammadAG, what is ukeyboard? a virtual keyboard?20:31
javispedrowazd: but isn't the dog cute?20:31
wazdlcuk: this is a mockup that can be done in like 1 hour of one man brainstorming right before the event20:31
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wazdjavispedro: where is the dog? :D20:31
MohammadAGsmhar, yes, and it adds keymaps afaik20:31
wazdjavispedro: I'm watching UI prom here :D20:31
wazdpron*20:31
lcukwazd its been there for over a year then20:31
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smhardocscrutinizer, there is a shop here that does laser printing to notebook keyboards20:32
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DocScrutinizersmhar: check kbd in the dark20:32
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DocScrutinizerhard to print transparent parts to black plastics20:33
smhardocscrutinizer, what about transparent tickers20:34
wazdnot to mention full iphone statusbar replica20:34
wazdexact20:34
DocScrutinizerthe original letters will shine thru20:34
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javispedrolcuk: thanks for the video lcuk, was looking for it20:35
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DocScrutinizersmhar: you might add transparent stickers with small white additional arabic letters20:36
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DocScrutinizerthose won't shine in the dark, but at least it might work in daylight20:36
lcukjavispedro, came up in unrelated stuff20:36
smhardocscrutinizer, it seems it is a messy business. I hate it20:37
DocScrutinizeryeah20:37
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* MohammadAG won a discount code from ZAGG20:37
MohammadAGoh hi noobmonk3y20:37
noobmonk3yhey hey! :D20:37
noobmonk3yeveryone having a gd day?20:37
SpeedEvilI have been out spreading my seed, and am finally finished.20:38
SpeedEvil(the lawn)20:38
noobmonk3ylol!20:38
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TriztSpeedEvil; I don't think the babes likes to be called for lawns20:40
noobmonk3y:D20:41
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: :-D20:49
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if Nokia could be talked into producing blank keymats, to either print/laser your own custom keymapping in black on a white keycap, or etch/mill/laser out black varnish for the transparent white symbols20:51
SpeedEvilthat would be awesome20:51
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SpeedEvilhmm20:52
SpeedEvilis there a hardware reason shift+blue+key won't work?20:52
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* mece concurs that it would infact be awesome.20:52
mecewon't it?20:53
SpeedEvilshift-blue x and y both produce identcal output20:53
DocScrutinizerhell, for my y2000 6210 I remember that lil plastic thingy at the bottom you could **send in to nokia and get it lasermarked with your name** or whatever you liked20:53
meceSpeedevil, but is there something mapped to them?20:53
DocScrutinizerfor free!20:53
mecewow20:54
SpeedEvilmece: j/k and z/x seem to do the same thing20:54
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: n-key rollover?20:55
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: no diodes in kbd matrix20:55
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SpeedEvildunno20:56
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TheOnehi20:57
TheOnecan someone give me some tips, how i can figure out why my n900 is so slow today?20:58
TheOnei mean scrolling has lags and even the terminal output is slow20:58
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SpeedEvilWhat did you install/do recently20:59
SpeedEvilhave you added lots of music or videos?20:59
TheOnei did not do anything the last days with my n900 - only yesterday i charge the battery20:59
E0xrun top21:00
E0xand check if something is eating cpu21:00
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: on a short glance there are 8 QCOL and 8 QROW, and seems Fn, Shift, Ctrl don't conflict with any of the standard keys21:00
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: so N-key rollover for the qualifier keys shouldn't be an issue21:01
SpeedEvilhmm21:01
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SpeedEvilshift-blue, and ctrl-blue are not too hard to get with a fat thumb21:02
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SpeedEvilI use shift-numbers for xchat channels forex21:02
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DocScrutinizerbtw I finally got a qwerty ordered :-))21:03
TheOneE0x: nothing special if i do nothing, but if i type something or press the display /usr/bin/Xorg reached 100% cpu usage21:03
MohammadAGwhat the...21:03
MohammadAG/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set21:03
meceMohammadAG, you need to make clean before recompiling in arm21:04
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MohammadAGI compiled for arm21:05
MohammadAGjust testing some changes in X8621:05
MohammadAGand it's not compiling21:05
* RST38h moos inquiringly21:05
meceMohammadAG, as I said, you need to make clean first.21:05
MohammadAGnvm figured it ou21:05
MohammadAGt21:05
mece:)21:05
* DocScrutinizer remoos affirmatively21:05
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* mece baas21:06
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TheOnei turned off the device and removed the battery and than restart again - now it behaves normal again21:16
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TheOnebut i dont know why21:17
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lcukTheOne, open console, type top - wait and see whats taking up cpu21:20
lcukif you have a next time21:20
SpeedEvilTheOne: some application is using up lots of resources21:20
TheOnei did that, but i could not see any special21:21
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SpeedEvil_htop is nicer21:22
TheOnebut if i typed something i get houge cpu usage21:22
SpeedEvil_shows the long process names better21:22
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: scratch N-key rollover comment :-/  Fn: QROW4,QCOL5;  Shift: QROW4,QCOL6; Ctrl: QROW4,QCOL4  -- means e.g. pressing Sh-Fn shorts QCOL6-5.  "Z": QCOL5;  "X": QCOL521:24
DocScrutinizererr "X": QCOL621:24
DocScrutinizerJ:5 K:621:25
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DocScrutinizerI.E pressing any 2 of shift,Fn, ctrl concurrently will inevitably break detection of the correct letter key for some keys21:27
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SpeedEvil_DocScrutinizer: slightly annoying. as long as it works for many I suppose21:29
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DocScrutinizerhonestly, nokia managed to mess it up *thoroughly* :-((( - for the keyboard matrix21:29
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* andrewfblack wonders why his newest blog post hasn't shown on planet yet21:31
DocScrutinizersome diodes for at least the 3 qualidier keys would have solved it for good21:32
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* DocScrutinizer shakes head in disbelieve21:32
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DocScrutinizerI mean, even a friggin schottky costs what? 2cent?21:33
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DocScrutinizerseems to me like my arguments why Nokia needs to hire me are getting better and better21:35
SpeedEvil_DocScrutinizer: naah21:35
SpeedEvil_DocScrutinizer: software21:35
SpeedEvil_oh21:35
SpeedEvil_nvm21:36
DocScrutinizeryou can't fix21:36
SpeedEvil_yeah21:36
DocScrutinizer2key rollover you can do in sw, N-key rollover needs hw21:36
dmj726_n900and the way they do things seems to break number keys for x2x.21:36
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: do you think it'd help to open tickets against hw-issues?21:38
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Sargundockside, Nokia should hire you, agreed.21:42
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SargunDocScrutinizer, Agreed, Nokia should hire you21:43
dmj726_n900updoc21:43
DocScrutinizer:-)21:43
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dmj726_n900what's updoc?21:44
docksideSargun:  huh?21:45
jef91Can I make my n900 not go idle when I'm not using it? My download keeps pausng when the phone goes idle :-/21:45
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: doubt it21:45
Sargundockside, Sorry, no, Nokia shouldn't hire you21:45
docksideehm, is Sargun a bot?21:46
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: the question probably was too unprecise. Help what is the question21:46
SargunDocScrutinizer, Didn't a lot of OM go work for Samsung?21:46
dmj726_n900I don't think they would make too many changes other than to improve yields or increase safety.21:46
DocScrutinizerSargun: not afaik21:46
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: bugzilla is traditionally for sw bugs :/21:46
SargunDocScrutinizer, Where did most of the OM team go?21:46
DocScrutinizereverywhere21:47
* MohammadAG heard update21:47
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DocScrutinizeror nowhere, oblivion?21:47
* RST38h almost made EMULib internal config menu accept mouse clicks21:47
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dmj726_n900anyone know how to make desktop keyboard numbers work right?21:48
dmj726_n900(through x2x of course)21:49
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RST38hlet us see...21:50
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TheOnehow do i change the default pdf viewer to evince ?21:50
TheOneor default browser to firefox?21:50
DocScrutinizererr, I seem to remember mimetypes21:51
DocScrutinizerprobably some gconftool crap once again21:51
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wazdbtw, this broken live wallpaper deb in devel21:54
wazdthat's ours I guess21:54
lcuk"ours"?21:55
wazdhttps://garage.maemo.org/projects/livewp/21:55
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lcukwhat do you mean by ours though21:55
wazdme, vlad and Tanya are working on it :)21:55
* lcuk tips hat21:56
lcukthen, yes it most likely is21:56
lcukits on my device21:56
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lcukwazd, will the sky weather change eventually ?21:57
lcuki see it does day/night21:57
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lcukit would be good to incorporate some of the omweather logic if you havent already21:58
wazdlcuk: we'll see21:58
wazdlcuk: we have this idea on board but we should fit into FRUCT contest timings21:58
wazdlcuk: so maybe a bit later21:59
lcuk:) reasonable enough21:59
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pupniktick tock lcuk22:01
javispedrowazd: pretty nice (livewp)22:01
WolfieI'm hazarding a guess that this blogpost might interest you in this channel, http://wolfie.github.com/2010/04/13/fittss-outlaw.html22:01
wazdjavispedro: well, I hope so :D22:01
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lcukpupnik, yes \o22:03
wazdjavispedro: I can only judge by Vlad's descriptions and screenshots :D22:03
javispedroI was taking a look at the package yesterday to see how it was done22:03
* lcuk still finds this incredibly hard to believed personally22:03
javispedro:)22:03
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lcukwhat do you think then javispedro22:04
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javispedroabout? technical part -- seems doable. art -- pretty :)22:05
lcukjavispedro, not just art tho22:07
lcukall sorts of practicalities occur22:07
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Nils^hey people. I often ssh to the same connection with my n900 and it would be nice to have a shortcut on my desktop that invokes the terminal and directly ssh into the specified adress.22:23
Nils^So nothing else like startterminalcommand -x command ... like any linux terminal can do. But how to manually create a desktop shortcut?22:23
toresbeyou know of .ssh/config, right?22:23
lcukNils^, theres a desktop wdget that can add buttons for commands such as you speak.  i think at least22:24
lcukbut i cant think what its called ;)22:24
toresbeIf you add something like "Host hjem" (newline) "Hostname foo.bar.org" (newline) "Username foobarbaz"22:24
toresbeyou can just run "ssh hjem" which is what I do :)22:24
Nils^toresbe: the problem is not to shortcut the ssh command, I have a script for that. The desktop shortcut is the problem.22:25
Nils^the Icon, I mean.22:25
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toresbeYeah, I know, but I was making a second-best suggestion :)22:25
Nils^ok, I already have a second best, thanks :)22:25
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Nils^Desktop Command Execution Widget22:27
Nils^I already have this installed... the description sounded so nice.. but why did it not do what I thought... second attempt then.22:27
Nils^but so far I have my n900 for one week now. Feels like home :)22:28
Nils^never used a smartphone before and I can't think of anything more smart than linux22:28
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TheOnedoes nobody change some mimetype handlings ? i can not imagine the firefox user didnt change the default link handling22:31
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joomsterand that is?22:32
ShadowJKhm, my operator has half-fixed 2g.. 2 bars22:32
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ShadowJKbetter than none and having oto use 3g :)22:32
lcuki like the idea of buying a harddrive preloaded with movies22:32
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joomsteryes but then how much would that cost?22:33
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TheOnejoomster: the default maemo browser handles links22:33
TheOnee.g. if you got some email with a link and you click it, the maemo browser opens up22:34
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TheOnebut i want to change that to firefox/fennec22:34
ToJa92[TheOne]: Use browser switchboard22:34
ToJa92works perfectly22:34
TheOneand for pdf via filemanager?22:35
n900-dkAny one having an error like "missing: libhildon1 (>=2.2.10)" when trying to install apps?22:35
TheOneToJa92: can i change this via switchboard too?22:35
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ToJa92[TheOne]: No you can't.. it's only for browsers22:35
ToJa92and I have no idea on how to change the other associations.22:36
TheOneokay, than i have to look under the hood of switchboard22:36
TheOnei found some link, but that doesnt work for me22:36
TheOnehttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=1519422:36
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ShadowJKn900-dk, you're trying too install from -testing or -devel22:37
TheOnei changed text/html to fennec.desktop and pdf to evince.desktop but it didnt work22:37
n900-dkShadowJK: yes, is there a way to solve this?22:37
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ToJa92[n900-dk]: Try (as root): apt-get install --reinstall libhildon122:38
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Nils^is 2.2.3 higher or lower than 2.2.10 ?22:39
inzlower22:39
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javispedroNokia just sent me an email where they talk (<h1>) about "Interenet" on your phone22:40
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Nils^then reinstall libhildon1 does not change anything because 2.2.3 is in the repository22:40
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joomsterI cant stand using firefox/fennec, it's so laggy and slow22:40
joomsteri dont see how people could use it22:40
ToJa92oh, then IIRC it's because the autobuilder is updated and uses newer dependencies(from PR 1.2)22:40
ShadowJKn900-dk, -devel is building apps for firmware 1.2. firmware 1.2 isn't released yet. So, the end-user solution is to not install stuff from -devel and wait for the next firmware upgrade22:40
Timboi thought #n900 was rather quiet...22:40
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ToJa92[joomster]: I use it all the time22:41
ToJa92or actually fennec22:41
ToJa92it's faster than firefox 1.022:41
Timboit did seem slow when i tried it22:41
Timbochromium seems better22:41
joomsteryou mean the beta?22:41
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: aren't there spare keyboard lines? If so you could just brute force it - no need for diodes - one line per key22:41
ToJa92[joomster]: Yeah22:41
Timbobut the ui is too desktop orientated right now22:41
joomsterbeta builds?22:41
joomsterok22:41
Timboi don't mind microb though22:42
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Timbotrem o_O22:42
ToJa92I use it mostly for Weave... which keeps everything synced between my desktop computer, N900 and laptop computer22:42
SpeedEvil_lynx is fast.22:44
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil_: seems they used all 8 x 822:44
SpeedEvil_ff from a desktop displaying via wifi is ok too.22:44
SpeedEvil_with the right extensions.22:45
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SpeedEvil_rather sucks battery tho22:45
DocScrutinizerdunno why they didn't use 3 dedicated rows or cols for the 3 qualifier keys - I mean 5 x 8 = 40 still22:45
zash!e22:46
DocScrutinizeranyway 3 schottkys were a nobrainer22:46
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tremTimbo: ?22:52
Timbosorry, trem to me means http://tremulous.net/ :)22:53
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joomsterSo would anyone recommend installing the latest beta of fennec?22:56
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ToJa92[joomster]: If you use it regulary and I would recommend it... It some new stuff such as portrait mode too.22:57
ToJa92It have some*22:57
joomsterI dont use it regularly because it tends to freeze/choke alot :S22:57
joomsterhas it improved in those terms?22:57
ToJa92yeah, sometimes the scrolling freezes though and the startup time is still kinda slow, but otherwise it's much better IMO22:58
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joomsterso would this be the latest version? http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/candidates/1.0.1rc1-candidates/build1/maemo/en-US/22:59
joomstermarch 30th22:59
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ToJa92no... they're built nightly so the newest one is today ;)23:00
ToJa92do you have the mozilla FTP repository on your N900?23:00
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joomsterI have the one that was added when i installed fennec from their web site :S23:01
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ToJa92oh23:01
ToJa92well23:01
joomsternot the ftp one i suppose23:01
ToJa92if you just want to try it out, here's the latest build: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/nightly/2010-04-13-02-mobile-trunk/23:02
ToJa92otherwise I could send you the repository details23:02
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joomsterill try this out for now. Will it play nicely with the 1.0 release or overwrite?23:03
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ToJa92I think it'll overwrite.. I'm not too sure23:03
joomsterif i install a deb using dpkg will it now show in the app manager for uninstallation?23:03
ToJa92yes it should23:03
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joomsterok23:03
joomster*not23:03
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joomsterthanks, ill give it a shot23:04
ToJa92if it doesn't the package name is fennec so it's easy to remove anyway23:04
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fabinaderHi, I'm failing in building a C++ application which requires the pre-processor directive #include_next within Scratchbox... Does anybody knows if it works correctly  for Maemo?23:04
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil_: well, with a slightly less braindamaged matrix layout the whole qualifier key N-key rolover issue would have been fixed for good with absolutely 0 BOM change23:05
fabinaderAs #include_next is  not being executed properly, it is failing on the compilation... By adding manually the content it works perfectly....23:05
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil_: also both the 2stage camkey as well as lockslider aren't affected by the matrix messup, and as such would make really nice qualifier keys ;-D23:06
joomsterfabinader, maybe ask in #maemo-dev23:06
joomsterI needed help just setting up esbox alone and no one ever responded :S23:07
fabinaderOK, thanks!23:07
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tekonivelmI wish Gwibber was available for Maemo23:10
SpeedEvilso compile it23:12
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SpeedEvilhttp://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=gwibber+maemo23:13
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tekonivelmF.ex. Some bloke has started devedloping his own Facebook app23:16
tekonivelmSaw it on planet.maemo.org23:16
tekonivelmBut gwibber would accomplish what he's after23:17
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tekonivelmWell, i don't know rly what his plans are, but i think it would be beneficial to have a coordinated status updating clinet on Maemo23:18
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: have you seen any hw boad revision 'jumpers' ?23:18
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (thinking about N900i)23:19
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jacekowskii'm trying to start app in armel target23:20
jacekowskii have my xserver running, and exported DISPLAY23:20
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: no. You mean to allow sw detection of hw version?23:20
DocScrutinizer(gwibber) facebrick?23:21
jacekowskibut when i start application nothing appears on display23:21
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jacekowski( and when i kill xserver i get error can't connect to xserver )23:21
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yep, like on GTA0223:21
dmj726_n900I secured the game rights to the highest rated film in theaters (according to rotten tomatoes). :P23:21
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petterii think you can only compile with armel target23:21
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jacekowskiwell, i should get something on xserver23:21
jacekowskinot just blank screen23:22
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jacekowskiafter trying to connect my phone to that xserver i get something23:23
dmj726_n900Actually everybody has the rights, but I've started working on one with a bit of help from the director.23:23
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: probably could be accomplished via IMEI or SER# lookup table23:23
dmj726_n900very nice open source artwork.23:23
pupnikgood luck dmj726_n90023:24
dmj726_n900Sita Sings the Blues is a good movie.23:24
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DocScrutinizers/ser#/S\/N/23:26
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SpeedEvilhttp://wepad.mobi/en shiny23:27
waoguys, what do you say at samsung galaxy s23:28
waoand at htc desire?23:28
DocScrutinizerhmm, the 'I'm no iPad killer' metoo23:28
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DocScrutinizerwhat should we say? Maybe 'Hi desire! Hide, here comes my N900!" :-P23:30
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MohammadAGxarchiver pushed and fixed23:31
MohammadAGnight :)23:31
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wall[e]hi23:38
wall[e]anyone like populous?23:38
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wall[e]i want a clone that can play with stylus23:39
wall[e]like the nds version23:39
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jacekowskiis there source avaliable of hildon-input-methods?23:39
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wall[e]let me know if you want to make this populous engine idea. i can do both coding and graphics23:40
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pupnikwall[e]: are there any free sources for the needed graphics?23:43
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DocScrutinizerheh :-)23:44
DocScrutinizerI wonder if it's not possible to have a modified domesheet to integrate the diodes into the spring domes23:44
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dmj726_n900what would this game be like?23:45
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wall[e]pupnik, no, but I could remake them.23:46
wall[e]I'm quite ok with blender.23:47
pupniki am surprised there arent populous clones23:47
wall[e]can be played with emulator though23:47
wall[e]but stylus won't work23:47
pupnikwhich emu? amiga, dos, atarist?23:48
pupnikds? snes?23:48
wall[e]snes and picodrive i think23:48
wall[e]well, i can't remember how many version there are23:49
wall[e]too many populous versions23:49
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wall[e](to remember)23:49
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pupnikwall[e]: which version of populous did you prefer?23:52
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wall[e]pupnik, any basic version I don't know23:53
wall[e]but I like powermonger23:53
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wall[e]prefer for playing or for cloning?23:53
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wall[e]the basic version answer was for cloning.23:53
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wall[e]also look for a gnu go client23:55
wall[e]i wrote one, look very nice but can't easily be ported :S23:56
pupnikhttp://freepop.sourceforge.net/23:56
wall[e]thanks!23:56
wall[e]promising23:56
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wall[e]thanks again!23:57
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wall[e]graphics look horrible but may be ai could be useful23:58
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wall[e]s/ai/simulator/23:59
infobotwall[e] meant: graphics look horrible but may be simulator could be useful23:59
wall[e]thanks.23:59
jacekowskii think i found the problem with all caps in chromium23:59

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