IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-04-08

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juliankjavispedro: Reinstalling the package makes them correct, so why would they prelink them on the firmware image but don't have prelink installed on the device to run after package installation?00:00
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Proteousmaybe they are all just hacked binaries00:00
javispedrojuliank: yes, that's what I think has been done indeed.00:00
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javispedrojuliank: they don't expect anybody reinstalling packages on the device (save for SSUs), thus having prelink there is a waste of precious rootfs space00:01
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juliankjavispedro: Installing upgrades would cause the same.00:02
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juliankthe prelink effect would be lost then00:02
javispedrojuliank: SSUs. that's known.00:03
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juliankOK.00:05
javispedroArkenoi: sad truth (and this includes n900 promo video, look at the rotation animation). Everyone does it though (Apple was sued here for speeding up and "coolifying" the animations)00:07
javispedro(in a TV ad)00:07
nidOthats why their ads now have "not shown in real-time" or similar plastered along the bottom of them in the uk at least00:08
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nidObecause they show the "click something" then immediately the "something happening" without the "wait 5 seconds" that happens in the middle being shown00:08
shvedskywhen will they just show "LIE" near the ads?00:09
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ptl_demands_PR12javispedro: in the case of the N97 the 'coolify' was even bigger00:09
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javispedroptl_demands_PR12: that's what the video tries to prove00:09
nidOthe video's on an old firmware though00:10
javispedrobut I don't have an iPhone to compare.00:10
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MohammadAGthe iPhone opens apps real quick00:14
MohammadAGbut I noticed how it does that00:14
tripzeroreadahead?00:14
MohammadAGit saves images of applications and open those, then replaces the app with the images00:14
Noobmonk3y"opens an app"00:14
MohammadAGopens*00:14
MohammadAGthe images with the apps*00:14
tripzerolol, that's pretty cheatish00:14
MohammadAGwell maemo does it, but not the same as the iPhone00:15
MohammadAGopen the clock app in maemo, you'll see the background in low quality, then the clock itself will show00:15
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Noobmonk3ytheres a clock app?00:16
shvedskyerm... I see only clock00:16
nidO...00:16
javispedroor the app manager. I have to wonder why more apps are not doing it too.00:16
Noobmonk3yahhhh see what you mean00:16
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* MohammadAG loves the new zoutube00:19
MohammadAGjavispedro, DrNokSNES does it too I think00:19
nidOanything's better than the new actual site design00:19
* javispedro knows (for obvious reasons)00:19
MohammadAGwhich are?00:19
javispedrothat I made it...00:19
MohammadAGLOL00:19
* MohammadAG failed00:19
MohammadAGbig time00:19
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javispedro:P :)00:20
JaffaQuick question, does PR1.1 use MyDocs/DCIM or MyDocs/.camera as the output folder for the Camera?00:20
javispedroDCIM00:20
Noobmonk3ydcim i think00:20
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JaffaHermes does it too.00:21
javispedroJaffa: I know because I've always wondered why they implemented non-hidden hildon-fm "safe folders" (like music, documents, DCIM) but then didn't move .sounds to AUDIO00:21
javispedroand instead of that shipped the "Mac OS" "trick"00:22
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Jaffa...and I proposed it for Maemo back in March 2008: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/03/09/improving_application_start_up_mockup00:22
timeless_mbpjavispedro: eh?00:22
timeless_mbpJaffa: DCIM is a standard00:22
MohammadAGjavispedro, just wondering, how is that image on startup thing done?00:22
timeless_mbpwe've used it since day 1 of the n90000:23
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* MohammadAG is thinking it has to do with the .desktop file for some reason00:23
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javispedrotimeless: why .sounds, and not "sounds"? hildon-fm is now capable of handling non-hidden folders (does it for "dcim")00:23
javispedros/does it/it does00:23
timeless_mbpjavispedro: read #maemo logs00:23
timeless_mbpi've explained it before00:23
timeless_mbpheck, i think i started writing a blog entry for it00:23
timeless_mbpnot sure if i finished00:23
* _llll_ would also like to know00:23
timeless_mbpso go read the logs00:24
_llll_it's the kind of thing i expected on the wiki00:24
* MohammadAG would like to know, but would rather read logs00:24
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timeless_mbphttp://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/170/00:24
ptl_demands_PR12does anyone know a good mkv (matroska) player on the N900? Does mplayer plays it?00:25
ptl_demands_PR12s/plays/play/00:25
infobotptl_demands_PR12 meant: does anyone know a good mkv (matroska) player on the N900? Does mplayer play it?00:25
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Sceltthat's corny, T-rex00:25
Scelts/that's c/i'm h/00:26
infobotScelt meant: i'm horny, T-rex00:26
Scelt:-D00:26
javispedrotimeless: thanks.00:26
JaffaMohammadAG: hildon_gtk_window_take_screenshot is the thing you want to Google00:26
_llll_timeless_mbp: thanks for the link00:26
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* timeless_mbp goes back to fixing up the article00:26
MohammadAGJaffa, thanks :)00:26
timeless_mbpit isn't anywhere near done00:26
_llll_i dont think most people would reformat something just because no files showed up00:27
_llll_instead they would say "it doesnt work" perhaps00:27
timeless_mbp_llll_: you haven't met most people00:27
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javispedrotimeless: also you can document that via obex (pc suite) plain english names are shown :P00:27
_llll_thp: thankfully00:27
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_llll_err, s/thp/timeless_mbp/00:27
timeless_mbpjavispedro: regardless of the language used on the device and by suite?00:28
_llll_good to know i can delete that file anyway00:28
JaffaMohammadAG: Python implementation in https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=hermes;a=blob;f=package/src/org/bleb/wimpworks.py;h=4f602f2c2d1b90940c3958cab0a8d336ba09bfdf;hb=f0f5782da144008b3373c78e92967a3bbd78f0ec00:28
javispedrotimeless: yep. you can look at ~/.obex-roots/00:28
t-tanwe just found out that Nokia violates http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/thewarningtm.jpeg00:28
javispedros/roots/root00:28
t-tanphone calls lock the device to 600Mhz00:28
javispedroyes, I'm going to spend more time in a phone call than playing drnoksnes!00:28
ptl_demands_PR12timeless_mbp: there is something wrong with your blog, the latest blog entry on the RSS and ATOM feeds is from 2008: http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/index.xml00:29
_llll_the explanation in "Why does Maemo fight the user by renaming and hiding dirs?" is hilarious, just shows why programmers should not be allowed to design things really!00:29
JaffaMohammadAG: General trick is you connect your expose-event to a function which calls hildon_gtk_window_take_screenshot after a short timeout. If your app is launched via DBus (.desktop & .service file) then hildon-desktop will find the pre-saved image and show it whilst your app starts.00:29
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JaffaMohammadAG: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=hermes;a=blob;f=package/src/org/bleb/wimpworks.py;h=4f602f2c2d1b90940c3958cab0a8d336ba09bfdf;hb=f0f5782da144008b3373c78e92967a3bbd78f0ec#l140 most specifically.00:30
MohammadAGJaffa, thanks a heap mate :)00:30
MohammadAGI always thought it was something in Maemo 500:30
MohammadAGi.e not app dependent00:30
JaffaMohammadAG: App has to expose a screenshot which can be used sensibly.00:31
javispedroexactly00:31
JaffaMohammadAG: i.e. clock has to do it before showing the time00:31
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MohammadAGJaffa, can the quality be increased?00:31
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MohammadAG(in App Manager it seems to be highly pixelated)00:32
MohammadAG(funny thing is, I think the iPhone screens the clock too)00:32
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timeless_mbpptl_demands_PR12: i only publish stuff when i'm done with them00:32
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timeless_mbpptl_demands_PR12: 170 is nowhere near done00:33
wazdOh my god :)00:33
timeless_mbpas evidenced by the timestamps :)00:33
javispedroMohammadAG: probably, you'll have to reimplement take_screenshot function though :D00:34
wazdApple really rocks at UI design sometimes :)00:34
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MohammadAGjavispedro, well the only app I ported opens with a dialog not a window00:34
wazdtheir ipad's screen keyboard actually has "blind mark" pn "J" key :D00:34
javispedroMohammadAG: UX team will kill you00:34
MohammadAGUX?00:35
MohammadAG~UX00:35
javispedro2010's way of saying UI :)00:35
wazdhello all btw :)00:35
javispedromoo wazd!00:35
MohammadAGjavispedro, lol00:35
wazdjavispedro: UX is a bit different thing btw :)00:35
Jaffawazd: That's what all UI types say :-p00:36
javispedrothe common use of it is pretty much interchangeable, though :)00:36
wazdjavispedro: UX guys plan interactions :)00:36
wazdJaffa: ohnos :D00:36
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wazdJaffa: we're not like them! :D00:36
wazdbut seriously, blind mark on the touchscreen keyboard - epic00:37
t-tansmooth user experience = SUX00:37
wazdhttp://besho.narod.ru/reviews/ipad/sc/7.PNG00:37
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Jaffawazd: future evidence that a future iPad will have a physically morphing screen!00:38
wazdReally awful user experience - RAWX :D00:38
wazdoh, fail :)00:38
javispedrot-tan: btw, you packaged debhelper7? you might be interested in the discussion in -developers about pr1.2 sdk in autobuilder (one idea is to switch to squeeze toolchain)00:38
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wazdforgot the user :)00:38
shvedskywazd: that should be on failblog00:39
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lucenthey guys, slightly OT question for N900 users, how do I enable the speakers?00:39
lucentI have the TVout cable plugged in and I'm looking for a way to use the built-in speakers while doing this00:39
t-tanjavispedro: oh, thanks. I didn't follow the discussion on -devel lately...00:39
Jaffalucent: Err, turn the volume up? They're "enabled" when the headphones aren't attached and ... ah00:39
Jaffalucent: See how FM Radio does it00:39
lucentah, okay00:40
b-man|ubuntuinfobot: failblog is a blog for all-things fail http://failblog.org/00:40
infobotokay, b-man|ubuntu00:40
lucentSome Programming Involved :)00:40
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wazdJaffa: first the webcam, then morphing glass touchscreen00:40
b-man|ubuntu~failblog00:40
infobotsomebody said failblog was a blog for all-things fail http://failblog.org/00:40
b-man|ubuntu:)00:40
wazdand this is how an iPad looks for real btw: http://besho.narod.ru/reviews/ipad/10.jpg00:40
javispedrowazd: lol (to blindmark) :)00:40
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Jaffalucent: Indeed :-)00:40
lucenthttp://maemo.org/packages/view/fmradio/ in case someone knows the answer already00:42
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LateralusHaving networking trouble in scratchbox; ifconfig returns SIOCGIFCONF: Bad address, and wget google.com returns Host not found. Won't resolve anything.00:42
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LateralusMy resolv.conf is the same as my host OS.00:42
lucentJaffa: trying to find links to the source00:43
javispedrosbox has, like, three copies of resolv.conf00:43
javispedroLateralus: do a find /scratchbox -name 'resolv.conf'  and edit them all00:43
wazdwhat happened to engadget btw? is it an "ipad apps review" blog now?00:43
* Jaffa got really pissed off with that when doing his VM for grads doing one-day Maemo dev00:44
* javispedro is so pissed with the general status of name resolution in a typical desktop distro that has long switched to dnsmasqd/pdnsd (hey, like the tablets)00:44
javispedroin fact, I switched before they did that very same thing with network manager...00:44
t-tanjavispedro: uh, who suggested switching to squeeze? wouldn't that delay PR1.2 till 2011?00:45
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ptl_demands_PR12timeless_mbp: hmm, stuff from 2008? You wouldn't be the management person responsible for releasing PR1.2, would you? :P00:45
fralswazd: ive found using engadget.com/exclude/apple/ makes for a much better experience ;)00:45
lucentfolks, I have the link http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmradio/ from that how do I get to the source code?00:45
javispedrot-tan: autobuilder only. .symbol files would come, uh, "externally".00:45
wazdfrals: oooooh!00:45
_llll_Lateralus: sounds like no device exists rather than a resolv.conf issue00:46
C-S-B-N900so how is this sister of bearcave channel getting on?00:46
wazdfrals: can they mare /include/apple instead? :)00:46
wazdmake*00:46
javispedrot-tan: (.symbols files for firmware packages, that is)00:46
wazdI bought the most boring gadget in my whole life - a fridge :D00:46
Jaffajavispedro: Have we got a proposed mechanism by which we'd generate them? Do we need source, and have we got source for everything we'd need it for?00:46
lucentargh, I just want the source code, or a link to how to get that, I don't have any intent to build the source00:47
wazdyou blug it in, and it's on00:47
wazdplug*00:47
wazdwhat happens to my hands I wonder :D00:47
Lateralusseems to be resolving after I found /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf00:47
_llll_lucent: apt-get source00:47
LateralusIt won't download any data once connecting though00:47
_llll_if you;'ve enabled the deb-src stuff00:47
lucent_llll_: I can't do that00:47
Jaffalucent: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/f/fmradio/00:47
_llll_you could just browse the repository alternatively00:47
lucentJaffa: ah-ha, thanks00:47
javispedroJaffa: theoretically, we don't need source, but some ugly blank magic with a nm-like utility, the two (old/new) binary packages, and patience.00:47
javispedro*black, not blank :)00:48
Lateralusapt-get update works, wget does not.00:48
timeless_mbpptl_demands_PR12: nah00:48
timeless_mbpptl_demands_PR12: feel free to read other articles00:48
timeless_mbpif you see bugs, lemme know, the sooner people review them, the sooner i can publish :)00:48
Jaffajavispedro: Sounds evil; would be good to have a PoC (and a poke of X-Fade, and then maybe Ed Bartosh, as to whether it's doable)00:48
Jaffajavispedro: ...and whether it solves *all* the issues.00:48
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Jaffajavispedro: I _think_ it does from the last time we looked at it00:49
ptl_demands_PR12timeless_mbp: how do I get the index for still-to-be-published articles?00:49
javispedroJaffa: it solves the "first part" (detecting if a package I just sent to the autobuilder is pr1.0 or 1.2), but still doesn't solve the other questions perse00:49
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Jaffajavispedro: Ah, QA UI etc. Seems that there's some consensus around "promote everything at once" forming00:49
javispedroJaffa: more than one QA UI is out of the question I think. Now, wheter there are two "package pipelines" behind or just one I have currently no arguments for one or the other, but for some reason having two seems to be preffered00:51
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javispedroby pipeline I mean "fremantle-extras-devel-1.0 -> -testing-1.0"00:51
* Jaffa nods00:51
juliankWhy is there a file "._00:51
juliank"  on the device  in MyDocs?00:51
GeneralAntillestimeless, "i"? Really?00:51
ptl_demands_PR12huh?00:52
javispedroIt would seem to me that the simplest would be to just merge pr1.2 and pr1.0 in -devel and -testing and classify them at -stable promotion time would be easiest...00:52
ptl_demands_PR12[user@n900 MyDocs]% cat ._*00:53
ptl_demands_PR12Mac OS X                2��ATTR;����xThis resource fork intentionally left blank   ��[user@n900 MyDocs]%00:53
javispedrodon't do that! you'll break the internet!00:53
Jaffajavispedro: I think people are too worried that the situation we're in now would become typical; when the fraction of apps using the new symbols is miniscule, if any.00:53
ptl_demands_PR12juliank: mine doesn't have the "|" but it seems something for Mac OS X, probably one of the hidden folders timeless_mbp was blogging about00:53
GeneralAntillesAh, resource forks.00:54
juliankBTW, I get 14.28 MiB/s copying files to the eMMC via USB.00:54
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GeneralAntilles<3 Classic Mac OS00:54
javispedroJaffa: that's a reason I think that the "just go back" option isn't so insane.00:54
ptl_demands_PR12GeneralAntilles: what is a resource fork?00:54
GeneralAntillesptl_demands_PR12, not a data fork.00:54
javispedroJaffa: being a geek of course I prefer the über complex one :)00:54
GeneralAntilleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_fork00:54
SpeedEviljuliank: You can get about 25M/s if you read from both at once.00:54
GeneralAntillesptl_demands_PR12, has to do with HFS00:54
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Jaffajavispedro: :-)00:55
SpeedEviljuliank: mmc and sd00:55
ptl_demands_PR12ok00:55
t-tanjavispedro: just read your yesterday's IRC discussion about autobuilder and squeeze devkit00:55
SpeedEvilResource forks are in principle a nice idea.00:55
SpeedEvilIf everyone did them00:55
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javispedrot-tan: feel free to point any inaccuracies, I'm mostly speaking for a hardly-lenny-user perspective00:55
javispedros/for/from ...00:55
ptl_demands_PR12GeneralAntilles: so there's no harm if I remove it from my N900, since I will never plug it into an Apple device/laptop, right?00:56
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GeneralAntillesptl_demands_PR12, sure.00:57
t-tanjavispedro: how about setting up a parallel experimental autobuilder and uploading a couple of packages from extras to see how well it would work?00:57
GeneralAntillesIt's not particularly difficult to get back, either.00:57
GeneralAntillesptl_demands_PR12, it's just a bunch of aliases.00:57
t-tanjavispedro: which role could dh7 play?00:57
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javispedrot-tan: we'd use the squeeze devkit one. Just poking you since you seem to have experience using it in Fremantle :)00:58
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javispedroah, before I forget: whatever we do to the autobuilder would have to be easily replicated in local SDKs (more work)00:59
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t-tanjavispedro: I don't think there would be issues with backwards compatibility00:59
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javispedrohopefully :)01:00
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t-tanwe definitely should test it - it's too complex to make a good guess01:00
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t-tanNokia should've used and supported the maemo-sdk+01:02
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javispedroI believe at this point that not even harmattan will use it.01:02
GAN900Harmattan will require submitting all efforts to Nokia for compilation under a "Nokia decides" license.01:04
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tgalalI'm trying to upload to extras-devel, but the builder fails for i386 message: dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory01:05
lucentJaffa: FYI it looks like the FM Radio app does it by starting a gstreamer pipe from the PGA to the speakers01:05
lucentnot trivial01:06
javispedrotgalal: post link to full log, if possible01:06
tgalaljavispedro, https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/retroconv_0.5.0-1/01:06
javispedrolucent: that's how it "gets" the actual fm radio, but not how it enables speaker output iirc01:06
lucentjavispedro: there's alsa mixer controls for it01:07
lucentI have some more tests to do and see if simple mixer controls can enable the speakers01:07
javispedrolucent: i think that's more like it, but I wouldn't be fiddling with alsamixer controls at random :)01:07
timeless_mbpptl_demands_PR12: i can generate an index01:07
Jaffalucent: There were definitely threads about it on maemo-developers and the alleged possibility of making things go "pop" in a bad way01:08
ptl_demands_PR12timeless_mbp: :] thanks. I found your articles to be quite interesting.01:08
* ptl_demands_PR12 trying to compile hot-babe for the N90001:08
lcukptl_demands_PR12, it builds, but the window looks ugly01:08
lcukit needs turning into a widget01:08
* timeless_mbp runs the indexer01:08
lcuknot that ive built it or anything01:09
timeless_mbpptl_demands_PR12: add .0 to the rss/atom feed urls01:09
timeless_mbpit should work01:10
ptl_demands_PR12seems I'm not the first one trying, lol01:10
ptl_demands_PR12timeless_mbp: ok, thanks!01:10
lucentJaffa: uh-oh01:10
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* timeless_mbp frowns01:10
timeless_mbpsafari doesn't like my file01:10
* timeless_mbp wonders why01:10
Proteoussafari hates you01:11
Proteousyou should go and stand in the corner01:11
lucent"# PGA Bypass MUST NEVER be used with speakers, ONLY with headphones!"01:11
Proteousthink about what you have done01:11
lucentfrom the fmradio source01:11
ptl_demands_PR12timeless_mbp: tried http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/index.rss.0 and http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/index.xml.0 - didn't work01:12
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MohammadAGfor those of you who know, where is the CPU physically located?01:14
MohammadAGlooking at the manual and I'm assuming it's on the left part01:14
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ptl_demands_PR12this is important to know. If an N900 ever attacks you, you've got to aim to the heart.01:15
ptl_demands_PR12or the brain...01:15
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lcukptl_demands_PR12, you cannot kill the n900 - its like the borg and has a hive mind.01:16
MohammadAGptl_demands_PR12, or just hit it with a grenade01:16
lcukif you do murder one, the others will know.01:16
GAN900MohammadAG, there are schematics somewhere01:16
SpeedEvilThere are naked pics somewhere.01:16
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer+++01:16
GAN900PoP should say Micron on top, I think.01:16
MohammadAGWTF IS WRONG WITH TMO http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=600048#post60004801:16
javispedroDocScrutinizer+++++ indeed01:17
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: the users.01:17
timeless_mbpptl_demands_PR12: didn't work /how/ ?01:17
MohammadAG(sorry for the caps, it's just annoying me)01:17
javispedronow put out a pray or two for Doc's N900 :)01:17
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, why do I have a feeling this wasn't the case two years from now01:17
w00t_any facebook addicts, take a look at http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=600100&postcount=8101:17
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: err?01:18
timeless_mbphrm, that script isn't doing what i thought it was doing01:18
* timeless_mbp goes fishing01:18
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, umm, I mean I feel the forums were betters pre-N90001:18
MohammadAGbetter*01:18
GAN900duh01:18
SpeedEvilah01:18
timeless_mbpsorry, try adding -draft1 to the url :)01:19
timeless_mbpnot .0 :)01:19
* w00t_ still says the forums are better just because he's on them now01:19
ptl_demands_PR12timeless_mbp: first one says not found, second one has no content01:19
ptl_demands_PR12oh, ok01:19
timeless_mbptoo many scripts, i have to pay attn to which script generates which draft format :)01:19
ptl_demands_PR12timeless_mbp: worked, I'll subscribe to your feed.01:20
ptl_demands_PR12thank you!01:20
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timeless_mbpptl_demands_PR12: i really don't promise the random extension will have content01:20
timeless_mbpeventually the primary urls will have content01:20
timeless_mbpit's just a matter of time01:20
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ptl_demands_PR12timeless_mbp: ok01:24
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zappahi,  how can i pull up the onscreen keyboard on my n900 while in xterm01:31
tripzerozappa, i don't think you can01:32
zappahmm,  how can i inout a > character?01:32
lucentJaffa: Okay, I got it working with a bit of amixer cset voodoo01:32
lucentthanks for the tips01:32
zappainput rather01:32
tripzerozappa, ssh from a computer with a real keyboard?01:33
ptl_demands_PR12Alt-Ctrl (Alt is the blue arrow)01:33
tripzeroor, bluetooth keyboard01:33
zappathanks01:33
ptl_demands_PR12then you'll have extra characters keyboard01:33
SpeedEvilzappa: close the keyb - press on the screen01:34
zappahow do you generally pull up the normal onscreen keyboard?  for any app so to speak.  I enabled it in settings but have seen no effect?01:34
SpeedEvilblue-arrow - symbolkey - pressed in that order only01:35
SpeedEvilthen release symbol and release blue01:35
zappagot it01:35
SpeedEvilzappa: press a textfield01:35
SpeedEvilzappa: with the screen open01:35
SpeedEvilzappa: err keyb shut01:35
zappadon't know how i hadnt notice it before01:35
zappaguess i usually have the keyboard open01:35
SpeedEvilBlame strong drink.01:36
zappature that01:36
zappatrue even01:36
zappaby chance any one doing any qtruby dev on the n900 here?  I'm gonna see what I can do with it myself.01:37
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shvedskyhow can I contact atilla77?  (I'd like to ask him about shepherd and GSoC.)01:40
jacekowskiwho had that chrome in gentoo chroot on n900?01:40
SpeedEviljacekowski: wont' it work in easy debiabn?01:41
SpeedEvilmaybe01:41
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javispedrochrome armel?01:43
jacekowskii just need info how long did it took to build01:44
jacekowskibecause i'm kinda stuck on linking chrome binary01:44
jacekowski( after ~45 minutes it failed on out of memory kill )01:45
jacekowskiso i'm changing my vm settings to add more memory to vm01:45
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jacekowskibut over 45 minutes linking seems little bit long01:45
zeqjavekowski: are you hitting a swap storm?01:46
javispedrofor webkit? i remember worse times when they were talking about tear :)01:46
microlithzappa: qtruby?01:46
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meceheh UAE runs unmodified. Not very easy to use though...01:46
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zappamicrolith:: yeah qt bindings for the ruby language.  someone has packaged it for either the n800 or n900.01:47
microlithooh01:47
microlithmaybe kaspernj01:47
microlithhe packaged up stuff for Gtk and Hildon01:47
zappawhen i search for it I don't find anything on the subject,  but it is in one of the repos01:48
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microlithhmm01:51
zappadoes the n900 support qt3?  I'm all about doing some qtruby, but I think gambas would be great for the community01:51
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microlithyou'd have to port it, N900 only officially supports Qt 4.601:51
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microlith4.5 in the community repos01:52
SpeedEvil_I want to build ff1.501:52
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* microlith wants to build NCSA Mosaic01:52
JaffaCan anyone remember OTTOTH how to reuse the Flash browser wrapper? I'm thinking of having the screensaver from the Joggler on my N900 as it's quite a nice fullscreen clock.01:52
javispedrozappa: note that gambas iirc had gtk+ support first, and maemo is pretty much still gtk+ these day.01:52
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lcukjaffa theres notes on tmo about it on diablo01:52
lcuknot sure about fremantle01:52
zappathx javisperdo, thats a good point01:53
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microlithmmm, Red Vines01:54
microlithand they're just stale enough to be perfect01:54
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jacekowskiJaffa: how long did it took them to ship it?01:54
zappai'm not crzy interested in gambas as its a language that i personally think doenst lead anywhere, but at the same time it could be like bringing visual basic to the n900 and that means lots more apps01:54
Jaffajacekowski: Ordered Good Friday, arrived Tuesday01:54
microlithzappa: as someone scarred by VB, that's not a good reference to make :)01:55
zappared vines = crzy delicious01:55
zappavb made windows in my mind01:55
microlithI was quickly moved by friends to Delphi01:56
javispedroJaffa: is there a video of such an screensaver, so good that you'll even kill your N900's battery for it?01:56
javispedro(curious ;P)01:57
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lcukjavispedro, the alarmclock next to my bed (and the joggler) are both plugged in devices - overnight charging isnt a problem for some devices01:57
tripzerofor odd reasons i'm noting that the media player cannot playback videos that i record on the n900 because it's an "unsupported format".  howver, they work again on a reboot.01:57
Jaffajavispedro: It's in Mer at the moment.01:57
tripzeroanyone else notice this?01:57
SpeedEvil_Jaffa: record a video of the clock. autoplay at midnight.01:57
Jaffajavispedro: http://images.intomobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/joggler-review1.jpg - it's basically a nice flip clock01:58
JaffaSpeedEvil_: :-)01:58
javispedroJaffa: aha01:58
javispedro*feels sudden gadget lust*01:58
Jaffajavispedro: 49 quid01:58
Jaffajavispedro: http://shop.o2.co.uk/joggler/01:58
lcukjaffa - are you and mrs jaffa planning new offspring? o_O :D01:58
Jaffalcuk: No :)01:59
microlithsomeone could make a killing reselling those outside the UK :)01:59
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lcukthats very out of date clock jaffa01:59
javispedrohah, a properly priced internet tablet at last02:00
Jaffajavispedro: Mer runs; MeeGo (long term) and Mer^2 are my hot picks02:00
Jaffalcuk: Or futurey02:00
lcukjaffa is your mer on a stick02:00
* javispedro decides to quit #maemo and go to joggler.org02:00
Jaffajavispedro: No battery, though02:00
lcukits pasty02:00
* javispedro quickly undoes that02:00
lcuk2009 june 12 was a friday, 2010 is a saturday02:00
Jaffajavispedro: And x86, so probably would be a large 'un02:00
Jaffalcuk: Very futurey :-p02:00
lcukeither way, its wrong02:01
zappau think atom is the future of mobile?02:01
lcukdoes it pullback internet and auto tune02:01
lcukor have you not got that far02:01
javispedrox86 device at 49.9 ?02:01
javispedrouh02:01
microlithzappa: for the sake of our battery life, I hope not02:01
microlithoh and competition :)02:01
javispedroI'm sure it runs MS-DOS faster than this desktop02:01
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* lcuk feels a tingle when touching joggler screen02:02
Jaffajavispedro: It's very nicely built. The built in OS has two good features: a nice screensaver, a digital photo frame and a digital radio.02:02
jacekowskijavispedro: with a touchscreen02:02
javispedroI would be sold at the idea of a 49.9 x86 "tablet" :P02:02
javispedrohow pc-ish is it?02:03
zappai was llokin ginto the new atmo arch harcore before i picked up the n900,  the LG and the (avva?sp) look like they've got it all figured out02:03
javispedroI assume a lot, if Mer runs on it.02:03
jacekowskijavispedro: it can run ubuntu02:03
microlithisn't the joggler running an Atom?02:03
jacekowskimicrolith: it is02:03
javispedrowhy isn't this joggler stuff, uh, more popular? why it doesn't even have a wikipedia article?02:04
microlithjavispedro: iirc it's a re-brand of another company's product02:04
jacekowskijavispedro: it used to cost over 100 quid not so long ago02:04
Jaffajavispedro: EFI rather than BIOS. Check Stskeeps' blog http://jogglerhacks.blogspot.com/ and http://wiki.maemo.org/O2_Joggler02:04
javispedroit's so near the impulse buy price point02:04
Jaffajavispedro: That's why I impulse bought it.02:05
Jaffajavispedro: 49 quid price is supposed to be limited to a couple of weeks. 800x480 screen. 1GB RAM. USB. Ethernet. Wifi. Digital radio. Digital photoframe. And seemingly hackable02:05
zappau guys got it good.   the good mobile tech never comes out in the states first02:05
Arkenoiwow where can i get one if i am outside UK?02:06
Jaffazappa: It's a rebranded OpenPeak device02:06
javispedroJaffa: so yes, now I understand microlith's point about making a fortune reselling :)02:06
jacekowskizappa: ARM is from england02:06
jacekowskizappa: 1st computer was built in england02:07
javispedrohttp://www.openpeak.com/OpenFrame7.php ?02:07
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zappajackeowski: i could argue that on different levels,but I wont.  I know here in the states we get screwd on mobiles and mobile plans.02:09
Jaffajavispedro: Earlier one02:09
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zappaUs just got screwed on net neutraility if u guys didnt see the news02:10
microlithnot yet02:10
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zappaFederal court told the FCC (communications regulation committee) that they can't make ISP's NOT ban p2p.02:12
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microlithright, they said the FCC does not have the authority02:12
microliththey can be given the authority though, but that would require congress to act02:12
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zappaunfortunately Congress acts on money02:13
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javispedroJaffa: what the hell. that stuff could potentially even run windows. decently.02:15
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zappaquestion for you all:  In the states I have my n900 on Tmobile, which from what I understand is the seOver Is there a small company overseas that uses the ATT 3g signal?re Tmbile is small compared to ATT.02:16
javispedrothe cpu alone should be a quarter of the price at least.02:16
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microlithzappa: overseas wehre?02:17
microlithwhere*02:17
javispedronow I'm mad :)02:17
zappamicrolith:: anywhre the n900 is sold02:17
microlithwell, the same frequency is used by some providers in south america and australia I think02:18
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microlithbut that just means you won't get 3G02:18
zappajust curious why ATT with all their moeny would have targeted a different radio than most the rest of the world02:19
microlithnot sure02:19
microlithI'm on AT&T, and it's not too terribly slow02:19
Proteouszappa, I doubt it was ATTs choice02:20
Proteousthey just bought whatever freq was available at the time02:20
zappathe n900 definetly pulls up web pages faster than what my iphone 2g did02:20
Proteouswith that stuff you just get what you can get02:20
zappathe us 3g frequenices were sold in an auction02:20
Proteousall freq are sold in an auction02:21
zappatmobile got the scraps.02:21
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Proteousthey sould just free up everything and make everyone use UWB02:22
zappaagreed02:22
crashanddieIsn't that like saying: "Stop using GMail, here's OWA"?02:22
Proteousno OWA love? heh02:22
crashanddiebeen using it exclusively for 3 weeks... No love, no.02:23
zappaits differen t crash, cause  could use iether eith your provider02:23
crashanddiezappa: get a keyboard02:23
Proteouslol02:25
Proteous(typed on his ipad)02:25
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crashanddieseriously?02:25
Proteousno02:25
Proteouswell, I guess it could be02:25
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Proteousbut I just made that up02:26
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crashanddie CTCP VERSION reply from zappa: xchat 2.8.6 Ubuntu02:27
crashanddieNope, just failwhale surfing on a keyboard02:27
zappaipad i thin wold be neat to have, just overpriced is all i think02:27
crashanddieoverpriced? It's cheaper than a N900 FFS02:27
zappayeah but u could get a real deal tablet for the same price02:28
crashanddieeh?02:28
zappau pay big money for hte n900 for the form factor02:28
crashanddie"real deal"02:28
crashanddiezappa: seriously, take a bit more time to spell and type correctly02:28
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Proteousand the is misspelled teh, not hte, get it right02:29
zappacrash:   doing the best the beer will let me02:29
Proteousuh oh, drunkircing02:29
crashanddiezappa: not my problem. Either spell correctly or go slurr in the pub02:29
zappacrash:  and its a netbook,  tiny keyboard and all.02:29
crashanddieagain, excuses, not my problem.02:30
SpeedEvil_Oh come on.02:30
zappahowever,  dinner is coming,  thanks all for the info02:30
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, N900 lets you slur in the pub.02:30
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: except he ain't in the pub02:30
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, yeah, yeah.02:30
zappaI do appreciate it,  Crash and all02:31
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: also, note I didn't prevent him from slurring on IRC while being in a pub :P02:31
* C-S-B wants to be in the pub.02:31
MohammadAGhttp://static.apberget.se/images/p/g/3bf/3bf664d1c8fdd964c01ed9e4aacea783_522_600.jpg couldn't resist02:32
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javispedroi'm dangerously falling in love with this stupid joggler thing02:34
javispedroI blame you all02:34
Jaffajavispedro: It's sweet02:35
javispedrostop02:35
tgalalcould  some one help me out with these logs? https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/retroconv_0.5.0-1/ why am I getting failed for i386????02:35
javispedroI'm not listening!!02:35
* Jaffa really would like a Maemo 5 environment on it though02:35
b-man|laptopLOL02:35
JaffaAll that touch scrolley goodness.02:35
javispedronoooo02:35
GeneralAntilleslol02:35
Jaffajavispedro: It's just like a portable, open, thicker, iPad.02:35
Jaffajavispedro: At a tenth of the price ;-)02:35
MohammadAGJoggler?02:36
javispedromust ... resist... too away... too far...02:36
Jaffajavispedro: If nothing else, cheap digital photo frame. How much do you pay for a 7" 800x480 digital photo frame with wireless?02:36
* b-man|laptop waves it in front of javispedro02:36
* javispedro explodes, starts sending emails02:37
Jaffajavispedro: Join us :)02:38
Jaffajavispedro: If it's good enough for lcuk, lbt and Stskeeps; it's good enough for me :)02:38
JaffaOh shit. I should really go to bed. Long day tomorrow02:38
* javispedro doesn't know how to import it either way, not with a week's notice :P02:38
lcukjaffa mine is waiting downstairs unpowered up because it loses configuration every reboot02:38
* lcuk would like a nice usb stick with mer on :)02:39
* Jaffa beds. G'night02:39
lcuk\o02:40
javispedrognite02:40
b-man|laptopc ya jaffa02:40
ptl_demands_PR12I just tried to update luxus02:40
ptl_demands_PR12and look what happened02:40
ptl_demands_PR12dpkg: error processing /home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/qt4-homescreen-loader_4.6.2~git20100406-0maemo1_armel.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/hildon-desktop/loaders/libqtpluginloader.so', which is also in package qt4-maemo5-homescreen-loader02:40
ptl_demands_PR12:/02:40
b-man|laptopthat sucks :\02:41
javispedroprobably pr1.2 autobuilder issue02:42
ptl_demands_PR12yeah. And it's caused by PR1.2 not being available02:42
* b-man|laptop wonders why they would release the SDK without a firmware update to prevent these kind of issues...02:43
javispedroso don't worry, it will fix itself. eventually. when pr1.2 is release, sometime around july 201202:43
ptl_demands_PR12hmm-hmm.02:43
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b-man|laptopthis is why i didn't update my sdk yet ;)02:43
javispedrodamn stupid joggler.02:44
javispedroget out of my head02:44
SpeedEviljavispedro: Stop misleading people.02:44
* b-man|laptop waves it in front of javispedro some more02:44
SpeedEviljavispedro: no way will it be that early.02:44
b-man|laptopxD02:44
ptl_demands_PR12it seem we're building a whole mythology around PR1.202:45
Proteousheh02:45
javispedroSpeedEvil: but I have insider info! that's what my magic 8-ball is telling me at least!02:45
Ken-YoungI understand it ties up some of the loose plot elements in "LOST".02:46
* SpeedEvil inspects his magic-8-balls. 02:46
SpeedEvil'ask again later'02:46
javispedromine has been upgraded to say "ask again in july 201202:46
javispedro"02:46
b-man|laptopi think the PR1.2 update is somewhat similar to the Maemo4>4.1 situation02:46
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javispedroIMO it's more similar to Maemo4=4.102:47
javispedrosince it breaks abi from chinook/4.002:47
javispedrobut still so similar02:47
b-man|laptopyeah02:47
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ptl_demands_PR12hermes doesn't do that02:48
ptl_demands_PR12is there an easy way to integrate msn (haze) contact pictures into the N900 contacts?02:48
javispedrobahj02:48
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javispedrowhy does everything remind me of the joggler02:49
b-man|laptopLOL02:49
javispedroat look at my monitor, see my displaylink/dlo usb port and think hm.. joggler has usb host...02:49
javispedro*I look02:49
b-man|laptoptry just imagining something else, it works for me xD02:50
javispedroporn02:50
javispedrodoesn't work.02:50
b-man|laptoprofl02:50
* SpeedEvil cues the flashback scene from Airplane.02:50
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b-man|laptopjavispedro: try not to imagine joggler and porn together - it sounds very wrong xD02:52
fqhuyHi, anyone knows about performance of PyQT4 in Maemo (n900)02:52
fqhuyis it acceptable02:52
brikdoes anyone else have problems logging into msn using "MSN protocol plugin for Conversations and Contacts"?02:53
javispedrob-man|laptop: indeed the name of the thing wasn't chosen wisely02:53
b-man|laptoplol yes xD02:53
Robot101javispedro: well we got complained at for telepathy-haze :P02:54
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javispedroyes, telepathy is such a bad name >:)02:55
ptl_demands_PR12and at the same time so good a name.02:55
Robot101it used to be called IPCF, so count yourself lucky :D02:55
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javispedroipcf-haze, much better and politically correct :)02:56
* javispedro 's firefox's awesomebar is already full of joggler stuff :(02:57
b-man|laptopxDD02:57
ptl_demands_PR12javispedro: what OS does this joggler thingie run?02:59
javispedropropietary os afaiu, but linux.02:59
ptl_demands_PR12"but linux"? A closed-down linux system?03:00
javispedrocustom ui03:00
javispedroflash based03:00
b-man|laptopwell, if it's linux, you can always install something else :)03:00
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ptl_demands_PR12hmm03:02
b-man|laptopit's kinda creative that it's flash-based, admiringly03:02
b-man|laptop**admittingly03:02
b-man|laptopgah03:02
* b-man|laptop needs coffee xD03:02
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ptl_demands_PR12maybe I could use my old HTC Athena - picture at http://images.wmexperts.com/articleimages/2007/_/_media_2007_03_htc-advantage-us.jpg - for such a calendar. nevertheless, based on two reviews I've just read, I didn't find this joggler very useful.03:02
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javispedrowell, my m130 is starting to .. uh, get old as wall pda :)03:03
javispedroscreen is pretty dim, touch screen is pretty unsensitive, and battery lasts four or five seconds03:03
* b-man|laptop wonders why NetBSD refuses to properly support newer arm architectures03:04
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zappa@fqhy http://blog.rburchell.com/2010/04/qt-on-maemo-warning.html03:12
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crashanddieb-man|laptop: because BSD is going the way of the dodo03:15
b-man|laptoplol03:16
zappabsd is being used in other good things like the haiku os03:16
tgalalok app has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository, how long does this usually take?03:17
crashanddieI thought you said good things?03:17
zappaheh03:17
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MohammadAGX-Fade, ping03:39
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b-man|laptop~ping03:47
infobot~pong03:47
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crashanddielmao03:56
crashanddie53 reports about the fake pr1.2 release03:56
b-man|laptoprofl03:57
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lcukcrashanddie, which part was fake03:57
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crashanddiehttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=598720#post59872003:58
* MohammadAG remembers he reported that03:58
crashanddiehttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=598795#post59879503:58
MohammadAGcrashanddie, why don't you delete those?03:59
MohammadAGinstead of locking03:59
crashanddiebecause, we're not allowed to delete anymore03:59
crashanddieanyway, I resigned from my moderator position03:59
MohammadAGbecause apple does it?03:59
MohammadAGlol why?03:59
crashanddieToo much drama, can't be bothered anymore04:00
MohammadAGhow many mods does the site have again?04:00
crashanddieSome wanker tells people to use extras-devel to absolute noobs, I delete the message, and the guy goes to the council because I'm abusive04:00
MohammadAGo.O04:00
crashanddieIf I don't delete the message, we get 1 report per half hour for the next 2 days04:01
crashanddieIf I do delete it, I get shit04:01
crashanddieIf I edit it, I get shit04:01
MohammadAGso you're losing either way :/04:01
crashanddieIf I warn the guy, I get shit04:01
crashanddieIf I give him an infraction, I get shit for being abusive, and power-hungry04:02
MohammadAGthat just sucks04:02
lcukmoderation - do not delete - just wipe things below the threshhold of normal users04:02
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corecodehonestly, i think the maemo community is too conservative04:02
crashanddieIf we move threads around, some people start threads saying that we're abusive, elitist, and shaping the forum in a way only us want to see it04:02
lcukwe managed 18pages of potential porn04:02
corecodeso what, some guy uses the devel repo04:02
corecodebig deal04:03
crashanddieif we don't  move them around, we have people complaining that the moderators don't do anything04:03
MohammadAGban those who you think are wrong04:03
MohammadAGproblem solved04:03
crashanddiecorecode: so a guy who doesn't even understand how to use skype on his N900 should be using bleeding edge apps?04:03
corecodewhy not?04:03
corecodehis phone04:03
MohammadAGhe shouldn't have an N90004:03
corecodeno offense, but tmo sucks04:03
lcukwhy not?04:03
crashanddiecorecode: because we'll get 10 times the amount of crap once he breaks it?04:03
corecodeand i don't think it is the moderators04:03
Ken-Youngcrashanddie, Why don't you just do what you think is appropriate, and if the complaints get you removed as a moderator, so be it?04:03
lcukwe should be embracing users04:03
corecodeit is the users04:03
lcukwell, not literally04:04
corecodeevery user wants to say something04:04
crashanddieKen-Young: because I have better things to do in life than get yelled at when I'm trying to help?04:04
MohammadAGand I thought the site I mod was crap...04:04
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corecodei can't use tmo04:04
MohammadAGnever had any mod issues except one or two who'd PM stuff when you give them an infraction04:04
crashanddielcuk: depends which ones, I don't mind embracing female users04:04
MohammadAGlol04:05
lcukbe careful, some of those you call female have lunchboxes04:05
crashanddielcuk: I really made an effort on the type of comments I made on tmo ever since I became a mod04:05
tgalalhow long does it take for a package to appear in extra-devel ?04:05
Ken-Youngtgalal, If it builds properly, it's almost instantaneous.04:06
MohammadAGtakes 30 minutes here04:07
MohammadAGit's instant when I upload the old version with a new number (just to make me look like an idiot)04:07
tgalalit's been an hour, and the build logs show OK04:07
lcuktgalal, this delay gets me everytime i submit to builder04:08
Ken-Youngtgalal, What's the package name?04:08
lcukbecause i have to also wait - and it feels like months04:08
Ken-YoungI've never seen a significant delay.04:08
tgalalKen-Young, retroconv04:08
lcukKen-Young, i usually upload a library, then apps using that library04:09
lcukthey cant go in at same time04:09
lcukits an eternity04:09
MohammadAG(if you time it, it's actually less than an hour, but it feels longer :P)04:09
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tgalalmaybe I screw something up in packaging04:12
tgalalI've trying to get it right for like 5 hours04:12
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MohammadAGtgalal, if it says OK just wait04:13
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Ken-Youngtgalal, There is a warning with your package build.   It says the package does not have a proper description.04:13
lcukhttp://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/retroconv/0.5.0-1/04:13
lcuktgalal, to extend what ken just said ^04:14
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lcukread the package page04:14
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lcuki wonder, are these faults reported in the cauldron build log sent to email?04:14
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tgalalKen-Young, what should a proper description look like04:15
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lcuktgalal, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_packaging04:15
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tgalallcuk, aghh not another guide ! lol04:16
Ken-Youngtgalal, Do you have a Decription field in your control file?"04:16
Ken-YoungDescription04:16
tgalalKen-Young, yes I do04:17
crashanddieI feel like I'm commiting incest04:17
crashanddieI'm using grep on Windows.04:18
Ken-YoungCan you show us (pastebin or something)?04:18
tgalalthe description is also shown when I try to open with gdebi on ubuntu04:18
tgalalok 1 sec04:18
crashanddieKen-Young: grep " 18:2" iasp-server.2010-03-31.log >> result.log04:18
Ken-YoungSorry, crashanddie - I was responding to tgalal , but didn't tag my response.04:19
crashanddieKen-Young: I know, I was being thick on purpose04:19
tgalalKen-Young, http://pastebin.com/vGeFRqFy04:20
tgalalfollows this the XB-Maemo-Icon-26: section04:20
Ken-Youngtgalal, Is line 12 all one long line?04:21
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tgalalyes04:21
Ken-Youngtgalal, I don't know if this is the problem, but it may not like the long line.   In my package, I have broken the long description into several separate lines.   Each of them must start with a space.04:22
tgalalKen-Young, I'll give it a shot, thanks04:23
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GAN900Hooboy04:37
GAN900Gotta love Talk04:37
GAN900http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=600274&postcount=4304:38
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ea_suterhowdy05:02
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corecodeis there something better than the backup app?05:03
corecodesomething to save my ~ off-device?05:03
timeless_mbprsync?05:03
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corecodeyea, sure05:05
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corecodesomething nicely packaged, only running when i am on certain wifi networks05:05
corecodeetc.05:05
corecodemaybe only with wifi and battery plugged in05:05
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ea_suterI have a question about GSOC application: if I'de like to apply to work on an idea in the list (or a bunch of them), do I write up my own application and send it to you or do you guys have a template?05:15
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Ken-Youngea_suter, There's usually more activity on this channel during the evening hours in Europe.05:22
ea_suterright...05:22
ea_suterthanks anyhow05:22
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crashanddieea_suter: contact VDVvx05:28
crashanddieVDVsx, sorry05:28
crashanddieea_suter: drop him an email, he should be quite responsive from 10AM GMT05:28
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crashanddiecorecode: no app like that, but I'm sure it would have a lot of success. Might even plug-in to the export framewokr05:30
ea_suterI did05:30
ea_suterbut he didn't mention any specifics about applying05:30
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ea_suterI guess that if I send him my application it should be alright?05:31
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crashanddieea_suter: did you check the wiki pages?05:36
crashanddieea_suter: the application process is listed there05:36
ea_suterok, thanks05:40
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crashanddie~ping05:47
infobot~pong05:47
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DocScrutinizer~ding06:03
infobotdong06:03
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godrikI would like to run some code frequently on my N810 and only when I have an internet access06:29
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godrikOn a classical linux, I would use cron, but I though there was something better on maemo06:30
godrikany comments ?06:30
Lateralusgodrik: "better"? Is there something you need to do which cron does not allow?06:30
godrikwell, typically, i don't want to do anything if I don't have an internet access06:31
godrikI could just test that at the beginning of my script06:31
godrikbut I though there might be a system that would run the script as soon as an internet connexion appear in that case06:31
godrikomweather does something like that for instance.06:32
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godrikand I don't recall seeing cron or at by defaut on my n81006:33
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Lateralusgodrik: may be something you can pull off with dbus in this regard06:34
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godrikmmm, Iam going to have a look at that06:36
godrikthank you06:36
godrikdid someone ported wget or curl ?06:37
DocScrutinizeron maemo5 there's alarmed app06:39
Ken-Younggodrik, wget is there, if you're talking about Maemo 5.06:39
godriknop, I am talking about diablo06:39
Ken-YoungSorry06:40
godrikthank you for the info anyway :)06:40
dotblankok06:41
dotblankWhen you set an sms message does it copy it to the root fs?06:41
dotblanksms message alert06:42
dotblankbecause I set the sms alert tone to a named pipe and it generates random wav sounds06:42
dotblankSo far when I receive an sms it is actually the first sound that I put into the pipe06:43
DocScrutinizererr, sorry, can't follow06:45
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DocScrutinizerif I make any sense of what you say, I conclude the system creates a .wav backup of the ringtone selected, at the time you actually select the original ringtone. I think I remember to have seen such 'cache' files in some hidden drawer somewhere06:48
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dotblankDocScrutinizer, I tried searching for files of a similar size none came up06:55
DocScrutinizerdotblank: that might fail as probably it's transcoded to another format, so changes size. Check for new files, or compare a full ls -a >before.txt with after.txt06:57
DocScrutinizerbtw I think I've seen those cached files somewhere in ~06:59
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DocScrutinizerthe named-pipe idea is actually intriguing07:01
dotblankyea it actually works really weel07:02
dotblankwell.. like I can select the file from the list and it plays random files each time i play it07:02
dotblankjust when I get a message seems to have a cache07:02
DocScrutinizerduh07:03
DocScrutinizersms alarmtone is different to ringtone?07:03
dotblanknah.. I was setting the sms alarm tone07:03
dotblankit was really hard to get a named pipe into the MyDocs folder07:05
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DocScrutinizerI bet it was. MyDocs is VFAT07:05
dotblankmounted a 1mb loopback ext2 in the vfat07:06
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DocScrutinizeryay07:06
dotblankalso has a symlink to root07:06
DocScrutinizerwhy didn't you create the pipe in ~ simply?07:06
dotblankthe drop down menu doesn't give you access to it07:07
DocScrutinizeryep07:07
dotblankonly to contents in MyDocs07:07
DocScrutinizerI 'fixed' that mega-annoyance by bindmounting / to MyDocs/rootlink07:08
DocScrutinizerbut I fail to understand why you ned access to the named pipe via this braindead filemanager selector07:09
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dotblankto select a named pipe to be usedf as an alert.07:10
DocScrutinizeraaaah07:10
dotblankin the background I have a script piping sound into it07:10
DocScrutinizerdarn07:11
dotblankoh I found the location of the cache07:11
DocScrutinizer:-D07:11
DocScrutinizerwhere is it?07:11
dotblank/home/user/.local/share/sounds07:11
DocScrutinizeryep07:11
DocScrutinizertoldy it's in ~07:11
dotblankI compared the diffs of my entire FS07:11
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DocScrutinizeralso I remembered it's hidden07:11
DocScrutinizerwoohaa, my brain has a neuron left that really works :-P07:12
dotblankit encodes it to wav07:12
dotblankyou were right about location and encoding07:12
DocScrutinizer3. point I remembered :-D07:12
dotblankbrb07:13
DocScrutinizerkepp us updated please :-)07:13
DocScrutinizerdotblank: so now you know location of the cache, you don't need fileselector access any more ;-D. Just place your named pipe there07:16
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ptl_demands_PR12what OS the joojoo tablet runs on?07:20
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dotblankDocScrutinizer, not so fast I have to make sure I encode all the files to the same wav format and quality07:24
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DocScrutinizerdotblank: you tried playback of the cache file?07:25
dotblankim about to just got back07:25
DocScrutinizeror a simple 'file <cachefile>'07:25
dotblankok playback worked07:26
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dotblankUncompressed 16-bit PCM audio Mono 48000 Hz07:26
dotblankis the fileformat07:26
DocScrutinizeramazing07:26
dotblankgah07:27
DocScrutinizerI would have expected a 24KHz07:27
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dotblankmy source file has a lower hz07:27
dotblankI think it will play ok anyway07:27
DocScrutinizertzzz07:27
DocScrutinizernot really. probably they use 48KHz so they don't need to transcode it during playback07:28
dotblankok im testing t07:30
dotblankYES!!!07:30
dotblankI think it works07:30
dotblankAwesoem07:31
dotblankI now have a random SMS alert07:31
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dotblankI took the entire Starcraft unit selection sounds and am now using them as random sms alerts07:31
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dotblanknow I need to run "hile true; do /usr/bin/gnu/shuf /home/user/MyDocs/SC1S/list.txt | head -n 1 | xargs cat 1>/home/user/.local/share/sounds/Love\ Sounds.mp3.wav; done" as a daemon07:32
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DocScrutinizersorry, was offline. have I missed a post before that last one?07:33
dotblank<dotblank> ok im testing t07:34
dotblank<dotblank> YES!!!07:34
dotblank<dotblank> I think it works07:34
dotblank<dotblank> Awesoem07:34
dotblank<dotblank> I now have a random SMS alert07:34
dotblank* clicx has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)07:34
dotblank<dotblank> I took the entire Starcraft unit selection sounds and am now using them as random sms alerts07:34
DocScrutinizeryeeeha! :-D07:34
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dotblanknow I just need to run the above command at start in the backgound07:35
* DocScrutinizer hands hacker-of-the-day batch to dotblank07:36
dotblankIm going to make a post about this on maemo.org07:36
DocScrutinizergreat07:37
DocScrutinizeryou are aware how mad useful this is as well for contact specific ringtones?07:37
dotblankhmm.. not too sure..07:38
dotblankI guess what would happen07:38
dotblankdbus wopuld send a message about contact info07:38
dotblankon incoming call07:38
dotblanklisten for it and then pipe contact ringtone into named pipe07:39
DocScrutinizeryep07:39
dotblankdo I win anything?07:39
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DocScrutinizeryou won the batch ;-D07:39
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dotblankok now to make a simple python script to do this07:40
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dotblankbrb again07:41
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dotblankback07:44
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dotblankwonder if I can pipe espeak to say aloud the contact's name07:46
dotblankI could make it say "call from dotblank"07:47
dotblankas the ringtone for that person07:47
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DocScrutinizershould work07:48
dotblankI don't think any current phone can do that really07:48
DocScrutinizerand actually there's a really dirty hack doing this07:48
naxus60 devices can do it07:48
naxuit syntesizes caller name on top of normal ringintone07:49
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DocScrutinizeryep07:49
DocScrutinizerthat's nasty07:49
dotblankor make it read the sms07:50
DocScrutinizerwell, that's not necessarily coupled to alarm tone playback07:51
DocScrutinizerbut things like ramp up ringtone volume, contact specific ringtones etc pp - that's really a good concept to implement such things07:52
dotblankwell I just tested piping espeak and it works07:52
dotblankdate07:53
dotblankment to type that in a terminal07:53
Proteousls -la /etc/network07:55
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ptl_demands_PR12good morning, crashanddie07:59
crashanddieit's 3PM :)07:59
crashanddiegood morning07:59
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DocScrutinizerdotblank: now if headset pushbutton and voicedial would work, then we really fixed headset usability08:01
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dotblankdbus monitor into espeak is hilarious08:04
* DocScrutinizer wonders if there's a GSoC project for a basic speech2txt to implement voice dialing and voice cmds08:05
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ptl_demands_PR12that would be nice08:06
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: isn't there a sister project for asterisk that does that?08:06
DocScrutinizerIt's kinda embarrasing N9x is brilliant on that, and N900 can't do at all08:06
ptl_demands_PR12and it's something that we need to catch up on the android and iphone fronts08:06
crashanddieerhm... the android one sucks donkey balls08:06
ptl_demands_PR12really?08:06
crashanddieyeah08:06
ptl_demands_PR12I have no practice on it08:06
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: asterisk? sounds quite unrelated, but well... anyway never heard of it08:07
ptl_demands_PR12nevertheless it's there, and ours isn't08:07
ptl_demands_PR12crashanddie: 3 pm? Where do you live? It's 2 AM here in Brazil08:07
crashanddieptl_demands_PR12: as in: say "encule" (roughly translated as asshole in english), and it will pick a contact at random08:07
dotblankcmon look at google voice their sppech2text is terrible. If they can't get that right how would android08:07
crashanddiedotblank: because they're not based on the same technologies?08:07
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dotblankI guess I should never attempt humor in an irc channel08:08
RST38hmoo all08:08
crashanddiewell, you can, but if your humour is shit, it doesn't really matter08:08
dotblank:(08:09
MiXu-The voice commands are shit for Finnish language even on S60 :P08:09
MiXu-They "sort of work"08:09
DocScrutinizermoo RST38h08:09
DocScrutinizerdotblank: :-D08:09
ptl_demands_PR12symbian has speech2text?08:10
DocScrutinizeryess08:10
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ptl_demands_PR12and can't they port it to maemo/meego?08:10
DocScrutinizerand it works like a charm on german N9508:10
RST38hah those germans...08:10
MiXu-N900 is the first Maemo phone. You can't expect it to have _everything_ that Symbian/S60 has.08:11
RST38hBy the way, voice commands is not the same thing as speech to text08:11
DocScrutinizereven understands names of contacts without any training08:11
RST38hVoice commands are way easier to do08:11
ptl_demands_PR12I know08:11
MiXu-If they had implemented everything, it would've taken another year or two to get N900 to shops :)08:11
DocScrutinizerRST38h: that's why I asked for *basic* s2t08:12
DocScrutinizerMiXu-: we all know and appreciate that08:12
MiXu-Just stating the obvious :)08:12
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: that's because you sound like you're going to kill someone everytime you give an order (germans as a whole)08:13
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crashanddieTELEFONIERT SIE HANS, SCHNELL08:13
DocScrutinizerbut really Nokia could port their S60 speech recog to maemo. I wouldn't even mind if it was closed source08:13
crashanddieand the phone replies: Ja Herr General08:13
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: hehe08:14
Kurppa_It only responds if you yell loud enough.08:14
MiXu-I think the problem in porting is that it's all written in an overly complicated manner since they're stuck with Symbian C++.08:14
MiXu-So it would be a complete rewrite.08:15
crashanddieThe algorithm is the important part08:15
crashanddieimplementation never is08:15
DocScrutinizerack08:15
ptl_demands_PR12it depends, the implementation might have a lot of special cases to deal with and that might be very important08:15
ptl_demands_PR12at least in my experience08:15
RST38hDocS: No such thing as basic s2t08:15
MiXu-I believe they're better off just using the known algorithm but writing everything else "from scratch".08:16
RST38hDocS: You either go the whole way, or it does not work, or you do voice control which does not do any s2t to speak of08:16
crashanddieif your algorithm is sound, the language doesn't matter (except for performance) -- you can throw monkeys at it and it'll work; that's what Indian programmers are for08:16
MiXu-lol08:16
DocScrutinizerRST38h: well, recognizing spoken contact surnames without training is what I call basic s2t08:16
ptl_demands_PR12what's the best open source speech2text engine?08:18
DocScrutinizers2t with a *very* limited dictionary, but one that lacks phonetic transscriptions08:18
RST38hthrowing monkeys on anything more complicated than a web app is a bad idea08:18
ptl_demands_PR12no08:19
ptl_demands_PR12throwing monkey at a web app is a bad idea08:19
ptl_demands_PR12you've gothe worst piece of software I ever saw08:19
crashanddieptl_demands_PR12: you haven't shared my experience then ;)08:20
ptl_demands_PR12it was made by indians (MRO Corp.) and sold to IBM in 2005. It's called Maximo.08:20
ptl_demands_PR12this message from 2008 states that maemo has poorly performed speech2text --> http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12484608:21
ptl_demands_PR12anyone knows what this guy is talking about?08:21
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DocScrutinizernope08:24
DocScrutinizer:-S08:24
crashanddieptl_demands_PR12: sphinx is in Java, but open source08:24
RST38h"in Java" == "useless"08:26
Kurppa_It's the algorithm that counts.08:26
crashanddieSometimes I wish the chinese didn't get access to the interweb08:27
crashanddieyou wouldn't have to read crap like this: "the problem is none of HW related, it's just a unfinished work, every HW have this problem. It's not a but, just like XORG."08:28
MiXu-crashanddie: They don't really ;)08:28
DocScrutinizerIt's not a but?08:28
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DocScrutinizerLOL08:28
MiXu-you put buts in buttracker08:28
DocScrutinizerbutcracker08:30
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ptl_demands_PR12time for a swapoff - a; swapon -a :)08:34
DocScrutinizeruhuh08:35
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MiXu-ptl_demands_PR12: What for?08:35
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DocScrutinizerto sweeten the coffee08:35
DocScrutinizerI'm doing that 12 times a day08:36
ptl_demands_PR12MiXu-: too much tabs open in google chrome, chromium, firefox and akregator, I guess08:36
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naxusyntax sugar on java?08:36
MiXu-ptl: oh, I thought you meant on N900.08:36
DocScrutinizereach of these words is enough on its own to kickban you :-P08:37
ptl_demands_PR12MiXu-: no, I never needed to do that on N900...08:37
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MiXu-Me neither, which is why I was asking :)08:37
DocScrutinizerstill I fail to understand how it would help to fix any problem on any platform08:38
ptl_demands_PR12but I guess the reason my usage was so bad was due to the flash plugin/nspluginviewer, it was quite large on xrestop08:38
crashanddieI just had to wait 3 days for engineering to write a tool08:39
crashanddieit's supposed to modify an XML file, in very complicated ways08:39
ptl_demands_PR12DocScrutinizer: I suspect it's memory leak or so, but I don't have the guts to use valgrind or anything else for such a large program08:39
crashanddie(35.5k lines in the XML file)08:39
crashanddieIt changed 10 lines.08:39
ptl_demands_PR12does it use XSLT?08:39
crashanddieWe waited 3 days for 10 lines.08:40
crashanddiefuck xslt, tell me what to change next time08:40
DocScrutinizeryep08:40
DocScrutinizersed probably needs 0.005s cpu time to do that08:40
woodong50_a base of maemo is Linux?08:40
DocScrutinizerwoodong50_: err, yes...08:41
ptl_demands_PR12yeah, and all maemo base are belong to us.08:41
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woodong50_oh thanks08:41
DocScrutinizerhrhrhrr08:41
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ptl_demands_PR12woodong50_: maemo is linux, not only the kernel, but the whole infrastructure - dbus, gstream, hal, X, gtk+, qt, networkmanager, upstart08:42
crashanddieaboyer: you're from Canada, right?08:42
DocScrutinizerupstart is linux? OMG08:42
crashanddieptl_demands_PR12: I would've said the exact opposite, but nevermind08:43
aboyercrashanddie: yes... and a little surprised that you would know that...08:43
ptl_demands_PR12DocScrutinizer: I meant that upstart makes part of some distros' infrastructure, not that it 'belongs' to linux only. X also runs on other OSs, why the surprise?08:43
DocScrutinizer~traceroute 130.188.198.10908:44
infobottraceroute to 130.188.198.109 (130.188.198.109), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets08:44
ptl_demands_PR12DocScrutinizer: of course, I am not referring to the kernel here, but if I used GNU/Linux I'd only complicate things for woodong50_08:44
ptl_demands_PR12crashanddie: what do you mean?08:44
woodong50_ OS of n900 vs n810 is same?08:45
aboyercrashanddie: why do you ask?08:45
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ptl_demands_PR12basically, yes, but that doesn't mean apps from N810 will work out of the box in N900, might need recompilation or even some adaptations to account for changes in the OS libraries.08:46
crashanddieaboyer: I just happen to know a Boyer, and he's from Canada, also your first name is Alain, which means you're either french  or french canadian08:46
ptl_demands_PR12woodong50_: basically, yes, but that doesn't mean apps from N810 will work out of the box in N900, might need recompilation or even some adaptations to account for changes in the OS libraries.08:46
DocScrutinizerptl_demands_PR12: well I thought upstart is ubuntu. And for ubuntu see http://xkcd.com/424/08:46
ptl_demands_PR12woodong50_: and this also means that apps written for the N900 will be even more difficult to backport to the N810, generally speaking08:46
crashanddieaboyer: I got lucky, nevermind08:46
woodong50_yes08:46
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aboyercrashanddie: french canadian (from ontario and not quebec...)08:46
aboyeryou may know the difference...08:47
ptl_demands_PR12DocScrutinizer-8: maemo uses it and i think fedora does too, isn't it? Many tools are invented for one distribution and become popular in others.08:47
crashanddieaboyer: which explains why you're still awake at this time of day :)08:47
crashanddieaboyer: en effet, je connais la difference08:47
DocScrutinizerptl_demands_PR12: just kidding, never mind08:47
aboyercrashanddie: well, i'm not living in canada anymore...08:47
aboyerit's morning for me...08:48
ptl_demands_PR12DocScrutinizer: sorry for not getting the joke :)08:48
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ptl_demands_PR12it's 3 AM here in Brazil but I sleep at day and awake at the night, mostly due to my job (although I am on vacation now)08:49
crashanddieaboyer: welcome to Europe08:49
crashanddieaboyer: what does a canadian do working for Nokia?08:49
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Ian--toxic4808:49
aboyercrashanddie: i'm not working for nokia, although i work with the n900 all day long!08:50
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crashanddieaboyer: oh well, you live in Finland and come to #maemo, I had a 2/3 chance you were working for Nokia :p08:52
Surfanot really08:52
ptl_demands_PR12Linus Torvalds should use a N90008:52
crashanddieplease, no08:52
crashanddieThe day torvalds endorses the n900, I sell mine08:53
ptl_demands_PR12lol08:53
Surfathat sound very reasonable, sell device if person x owns it08:53
ptl_demands_PR12It's not because of that08:53
ptl_demands_PR12since he's the Linux kernel manager, he'd surely steer the development towards its daily usage08:54
ptl_demands_PR12like, maybe we could get an open-source bme driver08:54
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DocScrutinizerptl_demands_PR12: go ahead write your own bme. It's not that difficult really08:55
DocScrutinizerprobably N900 would work and even charge flawlessly (though a lil tad slower and only from wallcharger) even without any BME at all08:56
ptl_demands_PR12I have some development skills, most of them in userspace. I will not spend my vacation with that, but I thanks for the advice. I've got to spend most of the time working out and nurturing my new relationship. :P08:58
crashanddieNo, if Linus had an interest in Maemo/Meego (unlikely considering Nokia/Intel are behind it), his arrogant and sorry ass would immediately criticise all of the very good and sound decisions we have made over the years08:58
ptl_demands_PR12s/but I thanks/but I thank you/08:58
infobotptl_demands_PR12 meant: I have some development skills, most of them in userspace. I will not spend my vacation with that, but I thank you for the advice. I've got to spend most of the time working out and nurturing my new relationship. :P08:58
crashanddieHe wouldn't pay any attention to the "why", rather than the "how", everyone would be low-level junk to him, and the project would die in the burning flames of corporate trolls versus open source zealots08:59
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ptl_demands_PR12would you be in the side of the corporate trolls?08:59
ptl_demands_PR12I trust more in the open source zealots ;)09:00
ptl_demands_PR12not that I trust too much, tho09:00
naxuso one man could ruin the whole community and existing product?09:00
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crashanddieTo be honest? Yeah, corporate trolls usually have more integrity and loyalty than open source zealots09:00
crashanddienaxu: sure, look what he did to Mandriva09:00
slingryummmmmmm09:01
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mecemornin maemites09:01
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crashanddieheh, for aussies: maemomites09:01
mecehehee09:02
naxucrashanddie: I don't know what happened there.. but I would expect that Meego will be steered from Intel and Nokia09:02
ptl_demands_PR12naxu: yeah, into the hands of the community09:02
naxuand they do steering based on business09:02
MiXu-in my opinion "into the hands of community" fully happens only after product support ends09:03
luke-jrMiXu-: it never really happens ever09:03
luke-jrafter support ends, the community is just screwed09:04
naxumer ?09:04
MiXu-Of course community has a huge role in software development, but I wouldn't say that means the whole platform is "in the hands of the community".09:04
DocScrutinizern809:04
crashanddie"Liberté, égalité, fraternité. Trois mensonges dans une phrase, ça fait quand meme un peu pitié"09:04
luke-jrnaxu: Maemo is too closed source09:04
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StskeepsMiXu-: community has next to no sway over maemo, agreed09:05
luke-jrthe community lacks the code needed to get things working09:05
Stskeepsmeego's changing that it seems09:05
Chiku|dctout a fait09:05
MiXu-Stskeeps: Yes.09:05
Stskeepsthat said, it is possible to get some things done here and there09:05
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naxuI don't know if it is ever possible to totally open maemo/meego. There are liability issues with gsm for example. And IP rights issues with chip manufacturers etc.09:08
Stskeepsi don't mind 97%, where shared platform is 100% and hardware may have bits here and there09:09
luke-jrnaxu: GSM isn't handled by the main processor09:09
luke-jrnaxu: as with all smartphones, GSM is handled by an independent "phone" CPU running 100% closed software09:10
luke-jrnaxu: the closed parts tend to be things like GPS and battery charging09:10
Stskeepsare you pro or con that btw? if there's open interfaces to gsm chip09:10
luke-jrand 3D, but I don't care so much about 3D as there's no practical alternative ;(09:10
luke-jrStskeeps: I consider it firmware, so I choose to tolerate it for now.09:11
Stskeepsfair enough09:11
luke-jropen firmware is still a long way off09:11
naxuluke-jr: battery charging might be also liability issue.. if user messes with charging algoritm and ruins/explodes battery, device manufacturer will be blaimed09:11
luke-jrnaxu: I can mess with charging algorithm without source. Source just makes it less likely I do something wrong.09:11
naxuyeah, true09:12
luke-jrtherefore, liability is greater with battery charger closed09:12
luke-jrthey force me to work blind ;)09:12
DocScrutinizernaxu: nope that's nonsense09:12
ptl_demands_PR12naxu: anyway, doesn't a disclaimer solve the vendor liability?09:12
naxuwell might be that algorithms are IP09:12
Stskeepsluke-jr: you're aware that the only way to prove that open source is better, is injuring yourself while experimenting with this stuff?09:12
Stskeeps:P09:12
naxudisclaimer is not automatic "get away from jail" card09:13
Stskeeps(we danes have a good expression along the lines of 'bodies needs to go on the table before anything is done')09:13
Stskeeps:P09:13
luke-jrnaxu: IANAL, but I bet a disclaimer on modifying the algorithm would hold up ;p09:13
Stskeeps+dead09:13
Stskeeps:P09:13
DocScrutinizer**you can not change the algorithm. It's implemented in bq24150*09:14
ptl_demands_PR12Stskeeps: are you descended from vikings?09:14
naxuluke-jr: it very much depends on country where "accept" button is pressed09:14
luke-jr"my arm got blown off by their device!" "you modified the code to do that, idiot"09:14
luke-jrnaxu: there is no 'accept' button09:14
luke-jrheck, I would expect even *without* a disclaimer, someone who did that would have no legal basis for suing09:14
naxuwell I guess you get the point?09:15
Stskeepsmcdonalds, hot coffee.09:15
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Stskeeps:P09:15
luke-jrit's like buying a gun and shooting your foot off09:15
tekojoluke-jr you aren't obviously american09:15
Stskeepshe is, though09:15
ptl_demands_PR12"I'll sue ya" songs from Weird Al Yankovic holds true now.09:15
luke-jrStskeeps: scaldingly hot coffee; that case actually had *some* merit09:15
tekojooh, then he isn't American09:15
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tekojowith a capital A09:15
luke-jrtekojo: I try not to be. :p09:15
tekojothere is still hope then :)09:16
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ptl_demands_PR12luke-jr: I guess if it was *that* hot, the coffee would evaporate instantaneously :P09:16
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luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: why?09:16
tekojobut naxu is right on the disclaimers, they don't hold in many places in the world09:16
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luke-jrtekojo: disclaimers aside, the liability is greater with closed source since it forces modifiers to work blind09:17
DocScrutinizerplease take notice you basically CAN NOT explode the battery by any sw tweaking. That's all BS, cargo cult coding, and urban legends09:17
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Stskeepsis that a bet?09:17
ptl_demands_PR12luke-jr: water goes only to 100 degress celsius, is not something like hot oil that can fry you alive, although it can hurt. Besides, people usually wait a few before actually drinking the coffee.09:17
naxuDocScrutinizer: "explode == safety vent opens" in my book09:17
luke-jrI wouldn't bet, but I think DocScrutinizer is right09:17
tekojoluke-jr the hard part of making mass market things is that the assumed buyer is not really tech savvy09:17
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* tekojo hmmm... coffee...09:18
luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: water can burn before it evaporates09:18
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luke-jrtekojo: someone non-savvy would not modify it, with or without code09:18
ptl_demands_PR12luke-jr: water from a little cups gets cold quite fast, and the low volume does not allow such harm.09:18
DocScrutinizernaxu: so I don't care what's on your book. There's a hardware chip designed to manage battery in a gentle way fully autonomously, and it's quite hard to mess with that chip in a way so battery will go any mad state09:18
Stskeepsluke-jr: after someone made youtube videos of how to install meego on a n900, we can no longer assume things like that09:18
Stskeeps:P09:19
ptl_demands_PR12*little cup09:19
naxuluke-jr:  what if tech-savvy creates software that breaks things up and then non-savvy uses it without knowing what he is doing and breaks the device?09:19
tekojoluke-jr well, reading the talk thread on cpu clocking, there is a bunch of people who do the craziest thing just "cause it said so on the internet"09:19
Stskeepsluke-jr: there will always be people telling lesser knowledged (that sounds wrong) how to do advanced things09:19
Stskeeps:P09:19
luke-jrnaxu: same with or without source09:19
tekojoluke-jr not what the courts think09:20
ptl_demands_PR12I told a bunch of non-tech savvy brazilian guys how to activate smartreflex in a forum09:20
luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: 72 C water can do third degree burns in a second.09:20
naxuluke-jr: but from manufacturer point of view there is a difference09:20
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luke-jrtekojo: some ignorant court has come out and said forcing people to work blind reduces liability?09:21
DocScrutinizer[2010-04-08 07:56:36] <DocScrutinizer> probably N900 would work and even charge flawlessly (though a lil tad slower and only from wallcharger) even without any BME at all09:21
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: on a sidenote, did you start that maemo-developers@ discussion yet?09:21
ptl_demands_PR12luke-jr: not a few drops because they exchange temperature with the body water, it has to have some volume.09:21
tekojoluke-jr essentially yes09:22
luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: I wonder what temperature is enough to affect someone driving.09:22
DocScrutinizernot yet, as I don't like to start such a thread without a device to confirm the statements and assumptions I'm going to post there09:22
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: fair enough - technical basis first09:23
DocScrutinizeryep09:23
ptl_demands_PR12luke-jr: if that person is driving with the cup on his/her lap, I guess the temperature is not what counts here.09:23
* luke-jr notes if the battery really could be exploded, BME would *need* to be in the kernel anyhow09:23
mecewow.. Angstron2 looks so awesome it makes my head explode.09:23
DocScrutinizerimagine I yell about 'where's the sysnodes?' and actually there are some09:23
luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: I'm thinking taking a sip09:23
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: get shadowjk or someone to give you ssh access?09:23
luke-jrsomeone w/ a N900: killall -s STOP BME09:24
luke-jr:)09:24
ptl_demands_PR12luke-jr: while driving? isn't that forbidden? The traffic laws here in Brazil forbid such a thing...09:24
luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: of course not09:24
luke-jryou can't even drink coffee while you're driving in Brazil??09:24
ptl_demands_PR12you can't drink anything while drivin09:25
ptl_demands_PR12&driving09:25
luke-jrI regularly use my N810 while driving09:25
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: see? yes, BME is a mere 'convenience' thing, for faster charging and/or charging on PC usb hosts at 500, and/or info about capacity09:25
luke-jrand every so often eat/drink09:25
ptl_demands_PR12or eat anything for that matter09:25
ptl_demands_PR12of course, most people don't obey this law09:25
luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: that is quite frankly insane09:25
luke-jrI suppose they ban phones too?09:25
luke-jrwhat do they expect people to do while driving?09:26
ptl_demands_PR12yes09:26
ptl_demands_PR12You can't use the phones while you're driving09:26
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: that won't pan out (sigstop BME) as then the bq24150 I2C watchdog will shoot09:26
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: the battery has a wd now?09:26
DocScrutinizeryep09:26
DocScrutinizer32s09:26
ptl_demands_PR12and you can't use callphones when you're in gas stations (that law was made because some high-ranked politician believed in the urban legend about cellphones blowing up gas stations with sparks)09:27
luke-jrso I guess we can be sure it won't explode within 32s09:27
luke-jr<.<09:27
ptl_demands_PR12s/callphones/cellphones/09:27
infobotptl_demands_PR12 meant: and you can't use cellphones when you're in gas stations (that law was made because some high-ranked politician believed in the urban legend about cellphones blowing up gas stations with sparks)09:27
luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: what do they expect people to do while driving?09:27
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DocScrutinizerthe bq24150 can either work autonomously which it does quite flawlessly with wallcharger. Or you can control it over I2C and then you need to 'keep alive' it09:27
ptl_demands_PR12luke-jr: pay attention to the road. Maximum distraction would be to chat to his/her passengers and listen to the radio or CD.09:28
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: if you don't keep-alive, does it kill the power, or just revert to default behaviour?09:28
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ptl_demands_PR12luke-jr: actually there are statistics that prove that this greatly affects driving, speciall cellphones09:28
DocScrutinizereven in I2C mode you can't do arbitrary nasties to the battery09:28
luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: maybe if you're actively making turns and such09:28
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: it reverts to default iirc09:28
luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: otherwise driving is entirely passive to me, like breathing09:28
ptl_demands_PR12luke-jr: Yeah, but the law doesn't have any good means to discriminate that09:29
luke-jrI do recall last week missing my turn 2 or 3 times <.<09:29
naxumost drivers think they are better than "average driver" :)09:29
ptl_demands_PR12'you will get a fine for drinking coffe while driving, but only if you are turning or in heavy traffic'09:29
luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: even missing turns, however, is not regulation worthy <.<09:29
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luke-jrespecially in heavy traffic, I would be bored without something to do ...09:30
ptl_demands_PR12I agree, but risking lives beats boredom.09:30
luke-jrnaxu: well, at least 49% are...09:30
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luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: I question that lives are at risk09:30
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luke-jrthe only close calls I've had, I wasn't doing anything other than driving boredly09:31
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ptl_demands_PR12but it's not only about you. The problem is that there are people - many people - who will get affected by this stuff and will risk lifes. And by the laws of statistics, you will get more people injured and dead.09:32
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slingri'm so glad i got this n90009:32
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=600466&postcount=67309:32
slingri had the n810 before and had to sell it cause i was a poor ass student09:32
luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: good point09:32
slingrjust trying to find some fun programs to dl for it now09:33
slingri really wish there was a garmin xt for this09:33
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ptl_demands_PR12slingr: www.sygic.com - I think it's 60 euros or so. It's a good Assisted GPS program.09:33
luke-jr:o09:34
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ptl_demands_PR12slingr: you can see videos of it running in N900 in youtube.09:34
slingrassisted... meaning it needs data?09:34
slingroi!09:34
ptl_demands_PR12no, means it tells you the directions.09:34
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slingrnice, thanks09:34
ptl_demands_PR12yw09:35
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luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: that site is sure slow XD09:36
slingrthanks ptl09:36
korhojoahm. what's the fastest anyone's got it to be stable at?09:37
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crashanddiekorhojoa: sorry?09:37
ptl_demands_PR12korhojoa: 900 MHz, I suppose09:37
korhojoa1.1 for a guy on ircnet09:37
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korhojoacrashanddie: the n90009:37
crashanddieI'm tempted to ban overclocking discussions09:37
poutsihey, what (if any) version of GLX does fremantle have?09:37
korhojoasorry. just asking.09:38
luke-jrcan you overclock the GPU part?09:38
crashanddiekorhojoa: not about you09:38
crashanddiekorhojoa: just as a whole09:38
crashanddiekorhojoa: I really feel like in a couple of weeks we're going to get a bunch of whiners saying that it's our fault they overclocked and it broke09:38
ptl_demands_PR12luke-jr: there is one of the kernels from the overclock notice that had an accelerated GPU, I think it was 433 MHz09:39
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korhojoasay "baww." then you stick it in the topic09:39
Wolfiecrashanddie: i think that would be a very bad move. Isn't n900 marketed as the hackable phone?09:39
korhojoai'm not clocking mine for this reason.09:39
Wolfiesure, the warranty is void, but see where Intel and AMD are now with their overclocking culture09:40
crashanddieWolfie: I don't care what the N900 is marketed as, this is #maemo, not overclockersforum.com09:40
slingrthis sygic looks decent09:40
luke-jrkorhojoa: define 'stable'09:40
korhojoaalso, a lady next to me just whipped out her n90009:40
Wolfiecrashanddie: oh, you meant for this channel only. Nevermind, then :)09:40
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luke-jrkorhojoa: the problem with overclocking isn't during usage, it's the shortened lifespan09:40
crashanddieWolfie: yeah, lol09:40
ptl_demands_PR12It's just information, you should counteract with better information. Like 'overclocking WILL melt your phone, don't be deceived and you will not have an warranty for this'09:40
korhojoaluke-jr: well, 24+hrs without problems. no lifetime ideas yet09:40
crashanddieWolfie: or at least keep it within reasonable limits of discussion, not that every noob comes here asking "OMFGZ I want to run Crysis, how do I overclock to 8GHZ??? ZOMG"09:41
ptl_demands_PR12lol09:41
luke-jrLOL09:41
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crashanddiekorhojoa: do you feel a difference in performance/usability?09:41
korhojoawell. i'd like to try it for one reason: dosbox and action supercross09:41
crashanddiekorhojoa: has the phone quality changed at all? (voice distortion?)09:41
korhojoacrashanddie: not my device.09:41
ptl_demands_PR12crashanddie: that is much much better, something that's next to impossible to disagree with. I thought you'd just prevent people from ever saying anything about overclocking. :)09:42
Wolfiecrashanddie: heh, well, i guess you'd do good to have a short Q&A link that you can refer to which mentions the channel's policies, and the most frequently questioned answers09:42
luke-jrI really need to get to bed09:42
luke-jrnight09:42
crashanddieWolfie: channel policies depend on my mood, really09:42
ptl_demands_PR12bye luke-jr09:42
crashanddieand that of DocScrutinizer's09:42
Wolfiesomething in the lined "#maemo is about the platform, not about N900. For more overclocking info, goto urls suchansuch"09:42
korhojoaanyone know if it's a good move to run irssi locally instead of over ssh? i mean, do you save any power?09:42
Wolfie*lines09:42
crashanddiebut he's lame, hardly uses the ban hammer in any kind of abusive manner09:42
luke-jrso in other words, policy sez not to tell crashanddie how much he sucks09:43
luke-jrj/k :)09:43
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slingrcan anyone recommend any decent, non-stock repo's i should add to my n900?09:43
crashanddieluke-jr: pretty much09:43
luke-jrWolfie: a number of people, myself included, consider #Maemo to be about the devices as well09:43
luke-jrWolfie: I run Gentoo on N810. ;)09:43
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Wolfieluke-jr: well, that's hardly anything to do with maemo anymore, has it?09:43
ptl_demands_PR12slingr: extras-testing, extras-devel *** WARNING WARNING, IT WILL BRICK YOUR DEVICE *** and qole.org *** WARNING WARNING, IT HAS ALREADY BRICKED YOUR DEVICE, BUY ANOTHER ***09:43
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korhojoai'm still notg as fast on the n900 as i was on the e61, find it harder to type with the greater distances.09:44
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luke-jrLOL ptl_demands_PR1209:44
korhojoaptl_demands_PR12: :D09:44
ptl_demands_PR12slingr: http://n900.aguilarj.com/?page_id=36909:44
crashanddiekorhojoa: if you screen it properly, you don't get disconnected from IRC everytime your N900 loses connectivity09:44
slingrthanks a bunch :D09:44
ptl_demands_PR12yw!09:44
Wolfieanyways, back to the salt mines (i.e. Eclipse)09:44
meceif N810 cpu is arm1136j-s, what is N900 cpu?09:44
MiXu-Cortex A809:44
crashanddiemece: arm1226?09:44
korhojoacrashanddie: which one? ssh or local?09:45
crashanddie(1136 + 90)09:45
luke-jrarm1337zomg09:45
crashanddiekorhojoa: ssh09:45
korhojoafor ssh it doesn't matter09:45
mececrashanddie, I don't know, that's why I asked..09:45
slingrlol09:45
crashanddiemece: it was a joke09:45
mece:)09:45
korhojoaah, you meany on the remote host09:45
meceI realize that... now.09:45
korhojoay=t09:45
crashanddiekorhojoa: yeah, I meant your IRC connection doesn't get interrupted constantly, which can get rather annoying for other users09:46
korhojoacrashanddie: of course screen, i thought everyone did that09:46
crashanddiekorhojoa: ctcp version me09:46
ptl_demands_PR12korhojoa: I think using irssi on the remote host is better if you have a good connection to this host09:46
MiXu-I agree09:47
meceok, it's armv7-a apparently.09:47
ptl_demands_PR12korhojoa: or, if you are too keen on running irssi locally, you could maybe use a bnc on the remote host so that you can reenact your conversations09:47
crashanddieoy, luke-jr, didn't allow you!09:47
korhojoaptl_demands_PR12: i was going to use irssi-proxy09:47
slingrI'm using my n900 on Wind Mobile in Canada. I'm getting decent speeds finally :D09:47
crashanddieptl_demands_PR12: irssi supports bnc features09:47
korhojoacrashanddie: browser?09:47
crashanddiekorhojoa: sadly, yes09:48
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korhojoahow does that compare to cgi:irc09:48
crashanddiea lot better than cgi::irc09:48
crashanddienot as good as mibbit09:48
ptl_demands_PR12korhojoa: irssi-proxy? Never used that. Is it better than BNC?09:48
ptl_demands_PR12I guess I'd use bnc because I sometimes want to use x-chat09:49
korhojoaptl_demands_PR12: well, if you like being able to connect to a already open connection, it works nicely09:49
korhojoaoh, it's not like that09:49
korhojoathe first irssi becomes the proxy09:49
korhojoayou can connect with anything09:49
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korhojoaie, it's irssi as a bnc09:50
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korhojoai like it better than miau or psyBNC09:50
ptl_demands_PR12lemme see.09:50
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korhojoadad said not to let strangers touch your bnc.09:51
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EmpJoeDCC SEND "поɦʞɔпɟ" 0 0 009:51
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ptl_demands_PR12o009:52
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ptl_demands_PR12what was that?09:52
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crashanddiethat was someone trying to kill people's connections09:52
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crashanddieit says 'fuckyou' upside down09:52
korhojoa:D09:52
crashanddiesome DLINK routers reset their connection when that string is passed through09:52
crashanddieexpect to see a few ping timeouts in the next few minutes09:53
korhojoahis name was EMPjoe :D09:53
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korhojoasomeone did that in #debian quite some time ago and like 1\5th of the channel dissappeared09:54
MiXu-haha09:54
crashanddieyeah, I used to do it in #gentoo to prove a point when people were trolling09:55
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korhojoa"stop fucking around, or this will happen to you."09:56
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* ptl_demands_PR12 trying to use irssi proxy10:01
mecehmm10:01
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mecefor gaming controls, szax would be pretty useful. Works as a dpad, only at a 45 degree angle.10:02
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korhojoamairas: sixaxis ? or what is a szax?10:03
korhojoamece: whoops. wrong nick10:03
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mecekorhojoa, szax are s, z, a and x on your keyboard.10:04
meces = up, z = down, and so on and so forth.10:04
korhojoaahh10:04
mecefor one finger controlling.10:04
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meceone thumb10:04
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korhojoagood idea10:04
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meceI'll test it on openarena.10:05
meceszax and stylus aiming is pretty accurate for gaming, but still missing the ability to fire. Hmm.10:06
mecestylus tap would work I suppose.10:07
korhojoai suggest one finger on another key10:07
korhojoaright pinky on right arrow?10:07
mecehmm left index finger on proximity!10:09
mecehey that might just work10:09
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korhojoaahh10:10
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korhojoaclever10:10
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ptl_demands_PR12korhojoa: what type of proxy is irssi-proxy?10:12
korhojoa?10:13
korhojoait's just a irc server, i guess10:13
korhojoayou need to have a build compiled with it10:14
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ptl_demands_PR12IRC Server? Oh, I understood it wrong. Ok, I'll try it.10:14
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korhojoawell, in the same sense a bnc is a irc server10:16
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korhojoaseriously, fuck. this drains my battery like hell10:18
korhojoalistening to music and using irc over ssh10:18
Surfasurprise? :)10:19
korhojoait's down to under 50 in a hour10:19
korhojoathe e61 lasted a LOT longer10:19
Surfawith ssh and irc?10:19
ptl_demands_PR12nice, it seems it worked.10:20
Surfait's not surprise either10:20
meceso anyone have a good idea how to remove samba-common?10:20
meceI get post removal script error :/10:20
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korhojoaSurfa: what do you mean?10:21
korhojoai'd have expected this to manage power better10:21
korhojoaptl_demands_PR12: got it working? good for you10:21
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Surfakorhojoa, you probably have noticed the difference in cpu and screen size/quality.. if  you do constantly something, you prevent the device from getting into sleep -> battery draining10:24
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korhojoaSurfa: well, yes. this thing has a larger battery though10:25
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korhojoa1300 mAh vs 110010:25
Surfasure, but it has been clear for some years now that battery technologies are developing slower than would be appreciated10:26
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Surfaother technologies are moving a lot faster nowadays.. :(10:26
korhojoayup10:26
korhojoashould get me one of them external batteries10:27
korhojoathat slim nokia thing looks nice enough10:27
ptl_demands_PR12korhojoa: yes, it's nice, very nice.10:29
korhojoayou've got it?10:30
ptl_demands_PR12yes10:30
korhojoaah, but does it work?10:30
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crashanddieSurfa: word10:33
ghostcubehmmm are the missing files for koffice anywhere available ?10:33
ghostcubethe qt 4.6 libs10:33
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ghostcubeand frozen bubble 2 isnt installable on meamo510:34
ghostcubemissing packages10:34
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korhojoaaww10:34
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korhojoawell. got to go now, battery low. need to save some for the rest of the day10:35
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crashanddieyo dave10:44
crashanddiedneary: comment va?10:44
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ptl_demands_PR12korhojoa: yes, I am configuring all my IRC clients to work with it now. Thanks for the tip. :)10:46
dnearyMorning10:46
dnearycrashanddie, Bien bien10:46
dnearyil pleut10:46
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ptl_demands_PR12Hmm, Ubuntu's kvirc is broken10:49
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meceok tested with openarena and yes, it definately works well.10:52
mecebetter than accelerometer controls imo.10:52
mecei left the jumping to accelerometer10:52
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nidOnoobmonk3y_ about or actually working?11:03
* noobmonk3y_ blinks........ working on a holiday, shocker.....11:03
noobmonk3y_just packing really :( leaving in a few hrs11:04
nidO1.0.0.0 is looking good11:04
nidOquestion though11:04
noobmonk3y_yay!11:04
noobmonk3y_ooo go for it11:04
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nidOis there any point atall in the "current cpu freq" check?11:04
noobmonk3y_well... no kinda... yes and no11:04
nidOevery time I update the system info the cpu always steps up to max anyway11:04
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noobmonk3y_1 you can tell that it is using the cpu11:04
nidOso it always reads 600 :P11:04
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noobmonk3y_but i want to see what happens with mohammadAG etc11:05
noobmonk3y_as they have overclocked11:05
noobmonk3y_does it erad the lower or upper values there...11:05
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noobmonk3y_essentially version 2 needs to have polling :D11:05
nidO:D11:05
noobmonk3y_so at the moment, it can just sit there looking pretty :P11:06
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noobmonk3y_definitley a big old change from the first released version :D11:06
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nidOyeah :P11:06
noobmonk3y_right quick ciggy before packing continues, brb11:06
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nidOI hadnt actually checked out the dead pixel check while it was in devel11:07
ptl_demands_PR12HealthCheck is it?11:07
nidOwas going down the list of different colour modes and at the second one while going down was thinking "I wonder if theres a way to move these buttons to check the pixe... ah!"11:07
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noobmonk3y_:D11:10
noobmonk3y_lol nidO11:10
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noobmonk3y_hehe was thinking of a clever way, but the button was the easiest11:11
noobmonk3y_should probably get that screen to autorotate11:11
noobmonk3y_actually probably need the whole thing to autorotate11:11
nidOthatd be nice, I would think recoding the ui to support portrait shouldnt be that troublesome11:12
noobmonk3y_at the mo it is, not go great until 1.2 i think11:12
noobmonk3y_there is a good GTK version but not using gtk :(11:13
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noobmonk3y_sorry the recoding bit should be easy, just the detection and auto part  lol11:13
* konttori would wait until pr1.2 before making the portrait support to any app (mostly as it makes things so much easier)11:14
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m77771111How many time nokia n810 can live with bluetooth powered on and running pidgin? (-;11:15
sejohom do I get the terminal on the sdk?11:16
noobmonk3y_same way as normal isnt it?11:17
sejonoobmonk3y_: can't find the package :/11:17
noobmonk3y_:| sorry havnt used the sdk in a while, hopefully someone here will answer though :D11:18
noobmonk3y_is there no walk through on the forums?11:18
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Appiahsejo: tried installing it from the app manager?11:24
ptl_demands_PR12sejo: fakeroot apt-get install osso-xterm11:25
ptl_demands_PR12for some reason the updated scratchbox environment took it off11:25
sejoptl_demands_PR12: thanks!11:25
JaffaMorning, all11:25
X-FadeMorning Jaffa.11:26
ptl_demands_PR12sejo: it's in the sdk repositoryu11:26
ptl_demands_PR12morning11:26
ghostcubenoobmonk3y_: youre doing the healthcheck :) app11:26
ghostcubeworks fine11:26
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ptl_demands_PR12sejo: be prepared, because for some reason the scratchbox terminal only accepts the keypad enter11:28
noobmonk3y_ghostcube, yay!11:28
noobmonk3y_thank you  :D :D11:28
ghostcube:) updated to 0.90 yesterday :)11:28
noobmonk3y_ahaaaa and v 1.0 last night :D11:28
ghostcube:O11:29
ghostcubemust check11:29
ptl_demands_PR12sejo: for the normal enter to work, you have to highlight "Ctrl" in the lower window part, then press enter, then undo the highlight11:29
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noobmonk3y_it is in extras testing now :D11:29
ghostcubeoh cool11:29
jacekowskimy chrome build failed miserably11:29
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jacekowskiwith stupid linking errors11:29
jacekowskii'm making relase build this time11:29
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sejothk now to get dvorak running on it11:29
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: did you try to build it within easy-debian or the maemo environment (scratchbox)?11:30
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: I have tried here but it was stopping on the part that it tried to import a python2.5 lib onto python 2.311:31
ptl_demands_PR12forgot the lib right now11:31
jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: i'm building it in scratchbox11:31
jacekowskiyeah11:31
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: how did you fix that part?11:32
jacekowskii had to hack python little bit11:32
jacekowskimv /scratchbox/tools/bin/python /scratchbox/tools/bin/python2.311:32
jacekowskisudo mv /scratchbox/tools/bin/python /scratchbox/tools/bin/python2.311:32
jacekowskithat was one11:32
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ptl_demands_PR12and what about the libgl libraries that chromium tries to use? Did you substitute with libgles or tried to compile it without these libs?11:32
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ptl_demands_PR12hmm11:32
jacekowskithen i had to modify couple files in /scratchbox/tools/bin/ to use /scratchbox/tools/bin/python2.3 instead of /scratchbox/tools/bin/python11:33
jacekowskiand then i had to do similiar trick with python inside scratchbox11:33
jacekowskibut that was just matter of changing symlink11:33
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jacekowskithat one - /scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/usr/bin/python11:34
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ptl_demands_PR12I tried a different approach, I figured it was hardwired to use python 2.5 due to importing that 2.5-only library, so I tried to override python 2.3 with python 2.511:34
jacekowskilrwxrwxrwx 1 maemo maemo 18 2010-04-06 16:49 /scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/usr/bin/python -> /usr/bin/python2.511:34
jacekowskiyou have to get rid of that python in /scratchbox/tools/bin/ otherwise it will fail11:34
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ptl_demands_PR12ok...11:34
jacekowskibecause it's earlier in $PATH11:35
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noobmonk3y_right! time for breakfast then a 5 hour drive!!! :D11:35
jacekowskiand i don't want to modify $PATH11:35
noobmonk3y_See ya'll laters!11:35
ptl_demands_PR12I tried to override by adding other paths to the start of the $PATH variable11:35
ptl_demands_PR12good trip, nomis11:35
ptl_demands_PR12*noobmonk3y11:35
noobmonk3y_lols11:36
noobmonk3y_chars!11:36
sejosomeone knows whether I can get the dvorak layout working on the n90011:36
ptl_demands_PR12definitely.11:36
ptl_demands_PR12after all, it uses standard X.11:36
ptl_demands_PR12just remap and you'll be set.11:36
sejosomeone knows whether I can get the dvorak layout working on the sdk? Can't seem to find it on google11:37
ptl_demands_PR12never tried it, I don't know if Xephyr accepts remapping the keys within itself11:38
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ptl_demands_PR12but I changed my N900 keybindings to have a few portuguese characters. Changing to dvorak would just involve more time.11:39
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jacekowskijust change keymap11:40
jacekowskiin whole system11:40
sejojacekowski: ok thx!11:40
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sejojacekowski: sorry but cannot find anywhere how to do that with the sdk, got a hint?11:51
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SpeedEvilCan anyone point me to how to overclock - well - underclock - the n900 - how do I set the kernel command line? I tried searching TMO, but my head exploded.11:54
jacekowskisejo: same as with normal linux disto11:55
jacekowskidistro*11:55
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jacekowskiSpeedEvil: you want to have it permanently running at low frequency?11:56
sejojacekowski: /6211:56
sejonvm11:56
SpeedEviljacekowski: no - I want the lower frequency available for scaling.11:56
SpeedEvilAlso - I want to try several freqs and benchmarks for current use with smartreflex on and off - but that's a seperate issue11:57
jacekowskii doubt it's possible11:57
SpeedEvilwhat's possible?11:57
jacekowskilower frequency11:57
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nidOofc it is, most of the overclocking changes also lower the min freq to 12511:59
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nidOproblem is, not all devices are stable that low11:59
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meceif I do opengl in Qt does that automagically work with gles?11:59
mecehm11:59
jacekowski /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq12:00
jacekowski /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_min_freq12:00
MiXu-Isn't the minimum frequency 125MHz to begin with? :o12:00
cehtehno 250 is12:00
SpeedEviljacekowski: yes - that only exposes frequencies that are allowed.12:00
MiXu-Oh, ok12:00
cehteh125 is configured but the production units kernels dont allow that12:01
SpeedEviljacekowski: note the absence of 125, 900, and 1700MHz12:01
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DocScrutinizermoroning12:02
cehteh:)12:03
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jacekowskiSpeedEvil: ~/maemo/kernel-source/drivers/cpufreq12:08
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jacekowskiN900 is a rx51?12:21
jacekowskior rx71?12:21
MiXu-rx5112:21
nidO5112:21
jacekowskimhm12:22
jacekowskiso what is it that rx71?12:22
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nidOwhere?12:22
MiXu-something unreleased12:22
jacekowskiin kernel sources12:22
jacekowski * linux/arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-rx71.c * * Copyright (C) 2007 Nokia12:23
jacekowskiquite old as well12:23
MiXu-There's talk about RX-71 in tmo12:24
MiXu-too bad it's down12:24
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nidOits not12:24
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nidOhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=2726212:24
MiXu-It is for me12:24
nidOold thread discussing rx7112:24
nidOdoesnt really seem to go anywhere tho12:24
MiXu-tmo hasn't worked for me in weeks12:24
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jacekowskiSpeedEvil: it looks like it's impossible to change that frequency easily12:28
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: you would have to recompile kernel12:29
ptl_demands_PR12:P°12:30
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: ~/maemo/kernel-source/arch/arm/mach-omap2/omap3-opp.h12:30
jacekowskiline 2912:30
jacekowskiwell, it starts in line 2412:30
jacekowskithere is whole struct defining all accepted cpu speeds12:31
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ptl_demands_PR12does it have 1700? :P12:32
jacekowskino12:32
jacekowskithere is 125 in one of #define12:33
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jacekowskibut it looks like it's doing some sort of smooth scaling12:34
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jacekowskii wouldn't overclock it without having temperature sensor12:37
ptl_demands_PR12does it have? I have seen some N900 screenshot with temperature12:37
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jacekowskithere is temperature sensor in cpu12:39
Edheldildoes it really pay off to gain some % of speed with a vastly increased risk of overheating  the phone or battery?12:39
jacekowskithat theoreticly should cut off clock to cpu if it gets too warm12:39
ptl_demands_PR12Edheldil: The answer is there's no answer to that question, at least not an agreeable answer12:40
ptl_demands_PR12or, the answer is a flamewar.12:41
jacekowskiEdheldil: have you seen datasheet for cpu inside of n90012:41
Edheldilnope12:41
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ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: is it thermically isolated?12:42
ptl_demands_PR12apart from temperature, there is the problem of electron migration, people told me here.12:42
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hrwmorning12:42
marmouteelectromigration.12:43
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jacekowskimhm12:44
Edheldilwould not a better option be underclocking to prolong battery life? :)12:45
jacekowskii'm trying to find that datasheet12:45
jacekowskiand i can't find it now12:45
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nidOEdheldil: some people have reported success in underclocking the min freq to 125 and getting better battery life when idle, but some devices also become unstable with a min freq that low12:46
SpeedEvilUnderclocking is not always directly relevant to battery life.12:47
nidOadditionally, some people are reporting actually getting slightly better battery life by overclocking the max freq as well, if the phone's just used occasionally as processes can race back to idle more quickly12:48
SpeedEvilYou really, really want it to be always idle12:48
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nidOyeah I think theres some crosstalking there, I assume Edheldil's referring to lowering the min freq, not underclocking the max freq12:48
Edheldilyep12:49
nidOcould be wrong tho :)12:49
Edheldilthanks for the info12:49
ptl_demands_PR12first link of electromigration (on ars technica) says that electromigration for overclocking is something of a myth in P2's and it is dependent of temperature12:49
nidOin p2's?12:49
RaafatHi, all I have submitted a proposal for Pocket Jeeves project in GSOC, I will be pleased if you provide me with your feedback(s) on the proposal, here you are the link for it http://www.4shared.com/file/259640743/fc9804c7/GSOC_Proposal.html12:49
Edheldiltemperature being dependent on cfrequency :-P12:49
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jacekowskii found it12:50
jacekowskihttp://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/omap3530.pdf12:50
ptl_demands_PR12link is http://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Farstechnica.com%2Fcpu%2Foc-myths-2.html&ei=zKW9S_KRGIP8NfH7ldMH&usg=AFQjCNERFeh7EMUnryMdoE8ASio27FPgnA&sig2=ui5sPFAUoQo2LN1Y9Os12w12:50
SpeedEviljacekowski: you found what?12:51
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jacekowskidatasheet12:51
ptl_demands_PR12N900's datasheet12:51
ptl_demands_PR12N900's CPU12:51
SpeedEviljacekowski: yes.12:51
jacekowskiti website just makes me wanna kill myself12:52
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jacekowskipage 14412:54
jacekowskiPLL can only generate up to 720MHz12:54
jacekowski(1) OPP6 frequency range is only supported on high-speed grade OMAP3530/25 devices.12:54
MiXu-jacekowski: only supported on high-speed grade OMAP3530/25 devices12:54
jacekowski(2) Cannot boot in OPP1. If OPP1 is desired, boot in higher OPP then switch to OPP1.12:54
SpeedEviljacekowski: that's assuming you use recommended PLL settings.12:55
nidOim having a curry tonight with a guy that works at arm, be interesting to find out if he can get hold of any internal testing info on the chip12:55
SpeedEviljacekowski: the PLL settings are typically not enforced - there is no '125MHz' PLL setting - you setup the frac-n synth to produce the correct output frequency.12:55
SpeedEvilnidO: Interesting.12:55
jacekowskiit's just about their definition of supported12:55
lcuk2nidO, you having chips with your curry? :D12:55
SpeedEvilnidO: what sort of curry.12:55
nidOill probably be going for a lamb balti!12:55
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SpeedEvilGood choice.12:55
nidOand lcuk2, ew no.12:55
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: it's DPLL12:56
SpeedEvilerr yes - been reading too much on frac-n synths12:56
SpeedEvilwhich are cool, but generally overkill for clock gen12:56
jacekowskiit might just refuse to accept any unsupproted freq12:56
SpeedEvilIt doesn't.12:57
SpeedEvilIt just tries to lock them12:57
SpeedEvilAt least based on experience of several processors12:57
SpeedEvilBasically as the datasheet is - at least somewhat - written after the silicon is produced.12:57
SpeedEvilSo they don't know the best/stablest settings for the pll till they make one12:58
SpeedEvilAlso interlocks for aceptable freqs would cost area12:58
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jacekowskijust stick little bit of microcode on it12:59
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SpeedEvilThere is lottle point trying to user-proof micros, it just confuses people.13:01
jacekowskilittle*13:02
jacekowskihttp://bunnitude.com/misc/files/omap/pdf/sprufa5.pdf13:02
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ptl_demands_PR12what is this pdf, jacekowski?13:04
jacekowskiIt internally generates two main clocks according to the following equations:13:04
jacekowski· CLKOUTX2 = (Fref x 2 x M) / (N+1)13:04
jacekowskithat pd13:05
jacekowskif13:05
jacekowskiOMAP35xx Applications Processor13:05
jacekowskiPower, Reset, and Clock Management13:05
jacekowskionly 400 pages13:05
Noobmonk3ysounds geeky to me :)13:05
timeless_mbpanyone here happen to use Sampo?13:05
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ptl_demands_PR12~sampo13:08
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MiXu-I do, but it's probably not the 'sampo' that you mean.13:09
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ptl_demands_PR12In Finnish mythology, the Sampo was a magical artifact of indeterminate type constructed by Ilmarinen that brought good fortune to its holder13:10
MiXu-It's also a man's name.13:10
MiXu-...and a bank13:10
ptl_demands_PR12and an insurance company13:10
MiXu-and whatnot13:10
MiXu-ptl_demands_PR12: Actually it's not an insurance company anymore afaik13:11
ptl_demands_PR12ok13:11
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timeless_mbpusing a man's name sounds crude13:12
timeless_mbpassume i'm unfortunate enough to need to use the bank13:12
shvedsky_MiXu-: so the insurance company that bears a name that brings fortune went bankrupt?13:12
timeless_mbptechnically afaiu, the banking bit got spun off from the other interests13:13
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MiXu-shvedsky_: The insurances are now under the brands "If" and "Mandatum Life"13:13
timeless_mbpright… so...13:13
timeless_mbpis the bank name 'Sampo Bank', 'SAMPO PANKKI', or '00075 SAMPO PANKKI'?13:13
MiXu-"Sampo pankki" yes13:13
MiXu-www.sampopankki.fi13:14
timeless_mbpany idea what the heck the 00075 thing is?13:14
naxupost number?13:14
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timeless_mbpis that roughly "we're so big, we have our own zip code" ?13:14
MiXu-many organizations have their own zip code13:14
MiXu-Well not many, but some. :)13:15
timeless_mbpMiXu-: less than 100? :)13:16
timeless_mbpsince 00100 is a human zip code13:16
MiXu-timeless_mbp: probably yes13:16
timeless_mbp(mine in fact)13:16
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timeless_mbphi konttori13:16
timeless_mbpi'm supposed to bug you about something13:17
timeless_mbpbut first i need to do banking13:17
timeless_mbpand then since there aren't many things certain in life, i need to do taxes...13:17
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Stskeepsi hope your tax forms comes in english versions too :P13:17
Stskeepscos they don't here13:17
timeless_mbpoh, this is US taxes13:17
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: well to me that sounds like 125MHz is supported, just you can't boot on that13:18
* timeless_mbp thinks they come in Spanish, French, probably Chinese, Japanese and Korean13:18
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MiXu-I'd hope that 600MHz is used on bootup.13:18
MiXu-Makes things much faster13:19
DocScrutinizerMiXu-: WTF? nope13:19
MiXu-Why not?13:19
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DocScrutinizerno system ever boots up in a high clock rate. You always set higher clock *during* boot13:19
DocScrutinizerat least that's sane common sense best practice for all I've learnt so far13:20
konttoritimeless_mbp: hi13:20
timeless_mbpso, to the finns here13:20
timeless_mbphow do you burn money you aren't using?13:20
timeless_mbpmy 'savings' account is earning me 0.04 %13:21
timeless_mbpor roughly "absolutely nothing"13:21
MiXu-Nice ;)13:21
MiXu-Minus taxes13:21
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timeless_mbpoh yes13:21
kirmayou can drink your savings13:21
timeless_mbpthe taxes part is really cool13:21
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timeless_mbpone year i think i got ~1 EUR in interest13:21
MiXu-Doc: Makes sense. But I was referring to the clock that's used during OS boot. I don't know anything about the low level stuff.13:22
timeless_mbpbut the taxes were something like 30EURCent13:22
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: They invest it in hard liquor.13:22
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: yeah yeah13:22
timeless_mbpbut if i don't drink, and want something harder13:22
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MiXu-timeless_mbp: Yeah, it's 28% tax on interest13:22
timeless_mbpwith preferably 0.1% interest13:22
DocScrutinizerMiXu-: that of course should use highest allowable clockrate13:22
timeless_mbphow would i manage that?13:22
konttoriI put my spare to funds13:22
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konttoriinsurance stock funds mostly13:23
timeless_mbpkonttori: "how"?13:23
timeless_mbpand does it give you 0.08% or 0.1 %? :)13:23
timeless_mbpand is it taxed at 60% or 90%? :)13:23
MiXu-timeless_mbp: I get something like 0,5% at the moment13:23
konttorigo to bank and setup stock insurance. then agree that you are allowed to transfer funds to that from your usual accounts whenever you please and without comission.13:23
DocScrutinizerkonttori: Hi! any chance you get a simple value number from hw guys at nokia for us?13:24
timeless_mbp"Real-time OMX" ?13:24
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MiXu-For that 0,5% I need have a savings account with a savings plan. 20e/month currently. :D13:24
konttorithe 'winning' is taxed at 28%13:24
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timeless_mbpMiXu-: wait is that 0.20 EUR or 20.00 EUR?13:25
konttoriI'm getting some tens of percents annually, but then again, I'm investing to eastern markets mostly.13:25
* timeless_mbp hates euro currency notation13:25
konttorialthough, I do have quite global spread13:25
MiXu-timeless_mbp: 20.00EUR twenty.13:25
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timeless_mbpMiXu-: are you getting more than that in interest each month?13:25
timeless_mbp(after taxes)13:26
MiXu-timeless_mbp: No no no. I put in 20 euros a month. It's my money. I just need to "keep saving" in order to get that interest.13:26
MiXu-Even though I can take the money out whenever I want and as often as I want.13:26
timeless_mbpoh, it isn't a fee?13:26
MiXu-No. I'm not charged for using the account.13:27
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konttoriDocScrutinizer: value, as in what freq to use? Well, I'm on daddy month atm, so cannot ask. I do remember that we were talking about checking possibility to drop the lowest clockrate to 125 for pr1.3, but that was uncertain still at that time.13:27
timeless_mbpMiXu-: so. I currently have a "Resources Account"13:27
timeless_mbpwhich gives me 0.04 %13:27
DocScrutinizerkonttori: We would need to know the milliOhms of R1129, R1130, R114013:27
timeless_mbpthere's a "Savings" account which claims to offer 0.2% to 2.00%13:28
DocScrutinizerkonttori: do you think we could get those values from Nokia EE ?13:28
konttorisorry, can't dig those out from my home.13:28
MiXu-timeless_mbp: But if you're looking for something to put amounts with at least four figures, I'd go with some sort of funds, like konttori said.13:28
DocScrutinizerkonttori: aah, baby vacation still13:28
timeless_mbpMiXu-: yeah, we're talking medium 4 figures13:28
crashanddieeh?13:28
crashanddie4 figures in a fund?13:28
crashanddieGuys, wtf13:28
MiXu-Hm?13:28
crashanddie4 to 5 figures should be what you have in your savings account13:29
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: the euro isn't doing well against the usd13:29
konttoriDocScrutinizer: I would write an email to the devs list. 13:29
MiXu-I have 208 euros on my savings account at the moment ;)13:29
timeless_mbpotherwise i'd send it to the US and pull it into paypal and get better interest13:29
timeless_mbp> Savings Account13:30
timeless_mbp...13:30
timeless_mbp> The account is not suitable for everyday banking because of it's transaction fees.13:30
crashanddienice grammar mistake13:30
timeless_mbpThe account is not suitable for native speakers because the idiots writing the text can't spell "its" correctly13:30
crashanddieI don't understand why banks still bother differentiating between savings and current accounts13:31
crashanddieHistorically speaking, the high transaction fees existed because the money was physically sent elsewhere, but now it's all digital13:32
DocScrutinizerkonttori: thanks :-)13:32
nidObecause they dont want to pay lots of interest to everyone's normal monthly money in-out13:32
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: ^^^13:32
crashanddienidO: nha, bollocks13:32
timeless_mbphttp://pastebin.mozilla.org/71372313:32
nidOoh, its bollocks? you think banks like paying interest?13:32
timeless_mbpthe only error camino found in the actual agreement is fulfilment13:32
MiXu-The money that's on people's normal accounts is basically a free loan for banks13:33
crashanddienidO: on my current account I have 3% interest for everything above 1000 gbp13:33
nidOexactly.13:33
nidOyes, and only above 1000 gbp, and bugger all banks offer that13:33
timeless_mbpnidO: this account won't give me more than 2% !13:33
crashanddienidO: it used to be from 0, but well, banks getting squashed and all... Still, doesn't change much13:33
nidObanks dont want to pay interest unless they have to, so most just stick with the status quo of paying bugger all / nothing to current accounts, so that they have people's £700-2000 wages a month as a free loan to them13:34
crashanddieExcept it's pretty low-risk for customers13:34
crashanddieWhen you're young, so 20-30, basically every spare penny should go into high-risk, high-payout medium-length investments13:37
crashanddiethis can be a friend's company, a deal from your bank, or stock13:37
MiXu-My next investment will be an apartment. Money well spent.13:38
timeless_mbpso… a money market?13:38
nidOmy last investment was an apartment13:38
nidOmy bank account doesnt like me for it :(13:38
timeless_mbpemerging equity market?13:38
timeless_mbpnidO: eh, why?13:38
timeless_mbpMiXu-: a second one?13:38
MiXu-timeless_mbp: A first one.13:39
nidObecause its now much sadder than it was before i bought it :P13:39
MiXu-I haven't even graduated yet ;)13:39
timeless_mbpMiXu-: i've already done that part13:39
timeless_mbpi'm now at the next stage13:39
MiXu-ah, I see13:39
timeless_mbphence my need to burn money faster13:39
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* GAN900 chuckles at luke-jr's ideas about traffic safety.13:40
timeless_mbpin the past, i would give away ~6kEUR to one random person each year13:40
nidOa 2nd apartment then!13:40
MiXu-I'd go with low-risk funds13:40
_llll_invest in your pension13:40
timeless_mbp_llll_: in finland?13:40
timeless_mbpdo i even *have* a pension?13:40
_llll_oh, foreign :p13:40
nidOthen setup a pension and invest in it?13:41
_llll_if you dont have a pension then getting one is proabbly the best thing you could do13:41
timeless_mbpnidO: in EUR or USD?13:41
_llll_YUAN13:41
lcuk2timeless would rather sip bacardi on the tropical finnish beaches13:41
nidOI dont have a private pension yet :<13:41
timeless_mbpbecause atm the EUR is doing badly against the USD13:41
timeless_mbpwhich means now is a bad time for me to buy a USD backed pension13:41
_llll_well a pension is presmably a long-term investment13:42
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_llll_so what they are doing now is irrelevant13:42
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_llll_unless you plan on retireing in the next 5 years13:42
_llll_in which case, go for the bacardi option13:42
nidOabsolutely avoid land banks though13:42
MiXu-It's not irrelevant. Because you will likely lose money *now*, if you buy dollars with euros.13:43
naxutropic in Finland needs it more climate change than is currently visible13:43
naxubit more13:43
GAN9001.2GHz? These people are insane.13:43
timeless_mbpsince i can sit on my EUR now and buy USD later, there's no reason for me to buy USD now13:44
lcuk2you just have to drive device at 88mph13:44
timeless_mbpkonttori: what's the smallest unit you'd buy in a fund?13:44
_llll_you could also invest in gold or even wine13:44
timeless_mbp500EUR?13:44
nidOgold is a reasonable investment, kinda missed the boat for making a killing out of it tho13:44
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* timeless_mbp is trying to figure out how T and K funds differ in Sampo's ui13:45
timeless_mbpjavascript:papirdetaljer('FI0008803986%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20AK%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20FI0008803986') EUR 17.55742 07.04.2010 0.00 0.00 %13:45
timeless_mbpjavascript:papirdetaljer('FI0008803978%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20AK%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20FI0008803978') EUR 29.36939 07.04.2010 0.00 0.00 %13:46
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timeless_mbpjavascript:papirdetaljer('FI0008810981%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20AK%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20FI0008810981') EUR 1.11622 07.04.2010 0.00 0.00 %13:46
timeless_mbpjavascript:papirdetaljer('FI0008810999%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20AK%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20FI0008810999') EUR 1.28649 07.04.2010 0.00 0.00 %13:46
timeless_mbpanyone have any idea what those T and Ks are?13:46
SpeedEvil?13:47
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konttoritimeless_mbp: well, I have automated couple huldred per month + I sometimes add some thousands on top of that, but I think the smallest possible for those savings / insurance funds was 50 euros.13:47
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timeless_mbpi can't even figure out how to create an account13:47
timeless_mbpCustody accounts13:48
timeless_mbpNo custody account for this agreement13:48
crashanddietimeless_mbp: T and K?13:48
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: see the 4 listed lines above13:48
crashanddietimeless_mbp: I don't see any Ts or Ks13:48
timeless_mbpDI India [TK] ...13:49
konttoritimeless_mbp: go to a bank and ask for advise13:49
timeless_mbparg, it's too close to 2pm13:49
crashanddietimeless_mbp: I just see a bunch of javascript13:49
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konttoribut dont use savings accounts13:49
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timeless_mbpkonttori: great13:49
* konttori goes for a walk with Emilia13:49
timeless_mbpso i just wasted time creating a useless account and burning account transfers?13:50
* timeless_mbp hates this stuff13:50
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meceWOOOW! http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcv6dv_pixels-by-patrick-jean_creation that video made my day!13:59
* ptl_demands_PR12 loading video14:00
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Appiahanyway to send files via bluetooth on the n900? only place I can find send with bluetooth is if I'm looking at pictures14:03
jacekowskihehehhehehehe14:03
ptl_demands_PR12use petrovich14:03
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nidOeither install petrovich, or wait for pr1.214:03
jacekowskihttp://gallery.jacekowski.org/main.php?g2_itemId=11614:03
jacekowskitake look14:03
jacekowskigoogle chrome running on N90014:04
ptl_demands_PR12or wait for PR 1.214:04
jacekowskinative build14:04
ptl_demands_PR12wow14:04
jacekowskinot using any gentoo/debian chroots14:04
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: have the .deb?14:04
jacekowskinot yet14:04
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MohammadAGjacekowski, thumbs up :)14:04
jacekowskii have .tar.gz14:04
ptl_demands_PR12congrats14:04
MohammadAGjacekowski, would package it for you if you want14:04
nidOwould not say no to a package of that14:04
jacekowskisure14:04
nidOhows it compare to microb performance wise?14:05
* MohammadAG is currently compiling gparted - entering a dependency loop14:05
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jacekowskinidO: don't know yet14:05
MohammadAGjacekowski, got any links to the tar.gz? If you don't mind14:06
hrwMohammadAG: deploop with gparted?14:06
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MohammadAGhrw, well atm, configure: error: Your version of libreadline is too old to be used.14:07
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ptl_demands_PR12is there a guide to solve the dependencies and issues with scratchbox compiling? I am fighting with debhelper now, by trying to compile libwww-curl-perl.14:07
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MohammadAGand for some reason I doubt that's upgradable on the N90014:07
MohammadAGat least not without breaking a dependency or two14:07
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hrwit is not dep loop14:08
ptl_demands_PR12Yeah, and I can't compile the most recent debhelper because no matter what I do to override PERL5LIB, it always tries to use devkit's paths.14:08
MohammadAGgparted > libparted > libreadline > still to be found....14:08
crashanddieone of my favourite time lapse videos: http://vimeo.com/852535614:08
jacekowskiMohammadAG: i'm making .deb14:09
crashanddieshame the sound is gone14:09
MohammadAGjacekowski, cool :)14:09
jacekowskii just need to read up how to do it for maemo14:09
jacekowskistuff should go to /opt?14:09
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jacekowskiand i'm not sure what to do with one required library14:09
jacekowskiwhich isn't present14:09
MohammadAGjacekowski, package the library14:09
MohammadAGthen package chrome14:10
MohammadAGdon't worry about /opt since it's a development build14:10
jacekowski library goes to /opt as well?14:10
jacekowskiit won't fit on /14:10
MohammadAGmost of the libraries don't work in /opt but you can try14:10
MohammadAGhow big is it?14:10
jacekowskiit's almost 50M after unpacking14:10
MohammadAGhmm, try moving it into /opt then14:10
MohammadAGmaemo-optify is the easiest way14:10
MohammadAG(maemo-optify-deb if you have a deb file ready)14:11
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ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: you can use maemo-optify-deb after packaging14:13
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lardmanmorning14:14
ptl_demands_PR12MohammadAG: do you have any idea how can I compile the most recent debhelper to proceed with my libwww-curl-perl compilation?14:14
MohammadAGptl_demands_PR12, most of the time it doesn't work with libraries14:14
ptl_demands_PR12MohammadAG: I didn't know that...14:14
MohammadAGdownload the .tar.gz, unpack and compile14:14
MohammadAG(I make it sound too easy don't I :P)14:15
ptl_demands_PR12tried with the source deb package14:15
MohammadAGdon't use debs14:15
MohammadAGalways compile the source14:15
ptl_demands_PR12yeah, but I entered the source tree and tried dpkg-buildpackage14:15
ptl_demands_PR12that should work, shouldn't it?14:15
_llll_what, why not use the deb?14:15
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ptl_demands_PR12I have all build dependencies14:15
mececrashanddie, that video makes the digger look really cute somehow.14:15
MohammadAGJoikuspt updated14:15
_llll_debuild is a good command14:15
lardmanis TMO down?14:15
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MohammadAG_llll_, if it's a debian build you'll most likely break dependencies14:16
crashanddiemece: yeah, it seems extremely gentle... reminds me of dog in Half Life 214:16
lardmanhmm, I appear to have lost my admin privs too, ah well14:16
mecenope14:16
meceerr..14:16
MohammadAG(which would break mp-fremantle-generic-pr on the N900 - breaking SSU)14:16
_llll_break dependencies?14:16
mecelardman, no, it's not down14:16
nidOits not right now14:16
lardmanah, must be my connection then14:16
lardmanworking again now, thanks14:16
nidObut it's been yoyoing up and down for the past hour or two14:17
MohammadAG_llll_, if it uses a debian dependency (not one build for maemo), the dependency will be upgraded, breaking SSU14:17
MohammadAGif you don't mind breaking SSU, go ahead14:17
MohammadAGif you compiled the deb, no problem in using it14:17
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_llll_not following... i thought he wanted to build the debhelper package14:17
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MohammadAGptl_demands_PR12, did you get the deb from the debian repositories or did you build it?14:18
DocScrutinizerWTF? 50MB lib?! libboost or what?14:19
MohammadAGlol14:19
crashanddietimeless: you still work for Nokia?14:19
* DocScrutinizer always thought optification is done in a postinstall script14:19
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ptl_demands_PR12MohammadAG: from the ubuntu repositories, apt-get source14:20
Noobmonk3yis tmo down again? :(14:20
crashanddieA very good read, send this to the Nokia UI crew too: http://fontfeed.com/archives/ipad-typography/14:20
crashanddietimeless: ^14:20
nidOon holiday 2 hours and on your phone + irc already Noobmonk3y?14:20
DocScrutinizerI recommend to rename libboost to libbust14:20
nidOalso, yes14:20
MohammadAGptl_demands_PR12, then you built the deb? if so, there's no problem when using it14:20
Noobmonk3ymeh14:20
* timeless looks up14:21
Noobmonk3ylol nidO  waiting for a few peeps b4 we leave14:21
mecehttp://www.tietokone.fi/uutiset/nokia_n900_paasee_kovaan_kayttoon14:21
timelesssp...14:21
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MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, update joikuspot14:21
ptl_demands_PR12MohammadAG: no, I couldn't, because when running the debhelper setup, it stops because it seems to use old libraries from the current debhelper14:21
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meceNoobmonk3y, no, it's just you.14:21
Noobmonk3yjoiku update today?14:21
timelesssampo tells me theykhave a savings account that offers 1.5pct instead of 0.2pct14:21
DocScrutinizerand why would a properly linked lib in opt/ not work?14:21
Noobmonk3yjust on 3g atm14:21
timelessthey just sell it "under the table"14:21
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MohammadAGptl_demands_PR12, well try using the deb, although I doubt it'll work14:22
timelessi'm so glad to discover i bank with a dishonest bank14:22
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ptl_demands_PR12MohammadAG: http://pastebin.com/e1fXx3Va14:22
ptl_demands_PR12using the deb? which deb?14:22
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mecetimeless, which bank is that?14:22
timelesssampopankki14:22
crashanddiesounds dodgy14:23
Noobmonk3ymeh arn't all banks useless?14:23
mecetimeless, ok, not mine then :) Although there's no doubt mine is dishonest too.14:23
crashanddieI'm very happy with my bank :)14:23
crashanddieThere's two kinds of people14:23
crashanddieThose who have bank/money problems14:23
meceI'm going to a childrens playground with FC Inter, sponsored by my bank today :D14:23
mecego figure14:23
crashanddieAnd those who have tax problems.14:23
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DocScrutinizerI thought there are 10 kinds of people14:23
DocScrutinizerthe ones that can read binary, and those who cant14:24
nidOthere are if you're trying to be funny a decade ago14:24
crashanddiethere were**14:24
meceI thought it was 2 kinds: "Idiots and me"14:24
Noobmonk3yDocScrutinizer, that was poor........14:25
crashanddietimeless: PM14:25
DocScrutinizeryou didn't like it? so sorry14:25
Noobmonk3y:)14:25
ShadowJKStskeeps, luke-jr, DocScrutinizer: I think on N8x0 you can actually do pretty nasty things to the battery. When digging mailing lists I came across almost no info, except someone found the register by which to set the proportion of on/off on the charging PWM, which is basically all the info you need to unleash the device's full go-boom potential... On N900 there is an actual, real, and sensible charger, that apart from implementing the proper charging alg14:25
ShadowJKorithm itself, also has overcurrent, overvoltage and bad input voltage protection/rejection.. so I don't see either how you'd make it do anything stupid14:26
ptl_demands_PR12there are 2 kinds of people, people who classify people as two kinds and people who do not (this is from the Murphy's Law book)14:26
meceaaaggaa14:26
meceer14:26
meceaahaha I means14:26
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mecenow itmo is down apparently.14:26
StskeepsShadowJK: thought so14:26
mecetmo14:26
Surfaptl_demands_PR12, what if someone classifies people on one day and doesn't on the next?14:26
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: thanks. My words though14:26
Surfawhich group does he belon to?14:27
Surfa+g14:27
nidOSurfa: people can change.14:27
Surfabut on the whole, which group is correct for him?14:27
ptl_demands_PR12Surfa: it just change groups by time, no big deal14:27
mecejacekowski, did you modify anything to build chrome?14:27
crashanddieptl_demands_PR12: I think you'll find murphy was of the people with tax issues...14:27
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crashanddieand btw, you can see that category very easily in here14:28
crashanddiethere's people with macs14:28
Surfaptl_demands_PR12, well, some logical issues there.. but never mind14:28
t-tanptl_demands_PR12: use the debhelper7 package14:28
crashanddieand then there's the tightasses that went for "I'm a PC"14:28
ShadowJKSo the reason bme is closed right now, for N900, I could guess from the bme charge state reporting and from the leaked schematics... The charge reporting is too different from bq27200's reporting, and it's too good to be based on voltage readings from bq27200... I note that from the leaked schematics, cellmo side gazoo has access to the required information for charge metering... So my guess is that bme talks to the cellphone side of N900, and this is pro14:28
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: so why not put exactly this statement on devel ML?14:28
ShadowJKbably the biggest obstacle?14:28
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ShadowJKAnd then it's an open question what happens if you don't have bme shut down the device in a timely manner, does similar stuff happen on N900 as did on SmartQ? :)14:30
StskeepsShadowJK: doesn't this technically mean that we can make a open bme but with different reading?14:30
DocScrutinizerwhat happened on SmartQ?14:30
nidOgotta love battery-eye14:30
nidOmy n900's battery level has been going up for the past 4 hours according to it14:30
ptl_demands_PR12t-tan: wow, that was something I just slipped. Thanks very much. Nevertheless, I'd still like to solve issues like that, do you have a guide or directions?14:30
ShadowJKStskeeps, yes, yes it does14:31
ptl_demands_PR12make: dh: Command not found14:31
ptl_demands_PR12and I can't install make-dh, no candidate.14:32
ShadowJKStskeeps, and it can be implemented in busybox sh script14:32
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: btw to all my understanding bq27200 should be better/more accurate than any bme-algo wrt capacity tracking of a standard battery14:32
ShadowJKkinda14:32
ShadowJKit has some setup issues...14:32
DocScrutinizerafter a proper learning cycle14:32
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ShadowJKand we can't afaik tweak the eeprom14:33
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DocScrutinizerneh, we can't afaik. As it needs 20V progvoltage14:33
DocScrutinizerat least for bq27000 that's the problem iirc14:34
Stskeepsso, 'open14:34
Stskeeps' charging on n900 would be safe?14:34
DocScrutinizeropen what?14:34
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DocScrutinizerticket?14:35
DocScrutinizerthread?14:35
Kurppa_Open charging.14:35
Stskeepsas in, no matter what instructions you sent to the chips, it would not kill the battery?14:35
ebzzryHi! Using the built-in, sliding, physical keyboard of the N900, how can I input characters like an asterisk?14:35
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: yep, almost14:35
Stskeepswhat's the 'almost'?14:35
DocScrutinizerthere's exactly one setting that's a bit fishy14:35
nidOebzzry: asterisk is fn a14:36
ebzzrynidO: I want to do it in a contact details window, in the number area.14:36
DocScrutinizerthat's maximum charge voltage which can go as high as 4V4x, which is a bit above the commonly used 4V214:36
nidOebzzry: then its just a14:36
t-tanptl_demands_PR12: what is the issue? I just joined the channel14:37
ebzzrynidO: Hmm, that did it. Thanks14:37
ptl_demands_PR12t-tan: http://pastebin.com/e1fXx3Va14:37
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DocScrutinizermy guess is the cell used in a standard Nokia battery for N900 would stand that voltage for quite a while, but wpould wear rapidly14:37
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t-tanptl_demands_PR12: all those issues are solved in debhelper714:38
Stskeepsso, can you propose a charging algorithm and make a proof of why this will not blow up a battery? :P14:39
nidOiv been wondering for a while exactly what design constraint limits the bl-5j to 1320mah :(14:39
DocScrutinizerbut still you need to set this very intentionally, and no closed source will stop a user from messing with I2C directly to do that, even without noticing maybe14:39
ptl_demands_PR12t-tan: I installed it, should I uninstall the regular debhelper? I think it'll try to install maemo-dev or something like that14:39
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: we basically got no charging algorithm, and we don't need such an algorithm. It's all in hardware14:40
t-tanptl_demands_PR12: no, they can coexist. you need to add two lines in your rules file to use it (see pkg description)14:40
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: and the proof for that is simply the bq24140 datasheet14:41
ptl_demands_PR12ok14:41
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, on N8x0 the charge voltage can spike to 4.4, at around 4.5 bme does abort() and the device reboots.. and since N8x0 hardware is incapable of proper charge current management, a battery with very high internal resistance causes N8x0 to enter reboot loops on charger :)14:41
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timelessshadowjk: nice14:42
DocScrutinizerhehe14:42
DocScrutinizerobviously N810 bat mgmt is abyssmal crap14:42
DocScrutinizerhw wise14:42
KhertanHi guys !14:42
DocScrutinizerthat's the reason for BME heritage14:42
DocScrutinizer(damn I said same words before)14:43
ShadowJKSo I didn't realize at first why this was happening, I just saw bme dying, so I thought I'll just run it from the shell in a god damn while true; bme ; done ... hour later i discoverd a very hot N810 :)14:43
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: so the charging voltage stuff is public knowledge?14:43
timelesscan this happen w/ an official nokia battery?14:43
ShadowJKStskeeps, yes14:43
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: yes14:43
Yggdrasillhello14:43
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jacekowskihmm14:44
jacekowskihow to add shortcut to menu?14:44
DocScrutinizertimeless: (bootloop?) yes14:44
X-FadeIR of the lipo will increase over time/cycles.14:44
KegetysI think my N810 is in that state, when its sitting on the charger it randomly reboots14:44
timelessjacewoski: power menu?14:45
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yikes. The selfdestruct script14:45
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, yep :)14:45
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Kegetysgood to know its probably just the battery :P14:45
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, needless to say, I am no longer using that battery. Ever14:45
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DocScrutinizerKegetys: same here o.O DUH14:45
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jacekowskitimeless: i mean in a .dev14:46
jacekowski.deb14:46
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: so, cooking it down, you can make a description of how to charge a n900 battery safely using public information and provide statements why it is safe?14:46
Stskeepsand where the pitfalls are and why this is already public info14:46
timelessshadowjk: did you send it to nokia?14:46
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: yep, I can14:46
ShadowJKtimeless, the battery? Past its 6 month warranty.14:46
timelessjacekowski: what kind of "menu"? and when?14:46
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jacekowskihildon menu14:47
jacekowskii'm making a package14:47
jacekowskiand i want app to appear in menu14:47
timelesswhat "menu"?14:47
KhertanI ve also got a battery which was hot during charge on my n810 ... the original one ... and it also prevent back cover to be close14:47
Khertanas the battery grow in size :)14:48
timelessis this the icon view@that ets people run apps like "Web"?14:48
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: might be useful to note that the situation is completely different than in n8x014:48
ShadowJKKhertan, that is dangerous14:48
DocScrutinizerhheget vrid of that pregnant battery - then duck and cover ;-P14:48
DocScrutinizershit14:48
DocScrutinizerKhertan: get rid of...14:48
KhertanShadowJK : Clearly ...14:49
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KhertanI ve return it to a nokia repair shop14:49
ShadowJKPregnant teens, pregnant batteries, I don't know which one is the bigger accident14:49
Khertanlol !14:49
timelessif the battery miscaries...14:49
Khertanhum   pregnant battery could burn ... and fix the pregnant teens issue14:50
lcukhope it doesnt - khertan will be paying paternity to duracell for the rest of his life14:50
Khertanbefore the problem happens14:50
lcukall for one night of passion with a AA14:50
Khertanlol14:50
KhertanSalut lcuk !14:50
lcuk\o14:50
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* Khertan is looking at what toppic is hot since one week on t.m.o14:52
crashanddielol: http://revision3.com/oneoff/unboxpornipad14:52
crashanddiesalut Khertan, yo lcuk14:52
MiXu-crashanddie: 40414:52
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Khertanhum .... 1.1 Ghz overclock14:52
Khertanlol14:52
KhertanHi crashanddie14:52
hrwKhertan: beagleboard kernel has even 1.2GHz step14:53
Khertansome didn't fear to not have children with a such overclocked device in the pocket14:53
crashanddieMiXu-: sorry: http://revision3.com/unboxingporn14:53
MiXu-alright, that works :)14:53
Khertanhrw: yep ... but beagleboard doesn t stay in your pocket14:54
Khertan:)14:54
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, SmartQ has a Sandisk emmc that autobricks itself if the voltage drops too low. There were some casualties..14:54
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DocScrutinizerMUHAHA14:55
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DocScrutinizerwell, proper lowvolt emergency shutdown isn't exactly a BME domain anyway14:56
ShadowJKI always knew Sandisk were full of shit, but I never quite realized the depths of it :)14:56
* SpeedEvil wonders on RFI from CPU at 900, and GSM at 90014:56
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: good point14:56
* timeless thanks someone for the font-iPad article14:56
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, oh that's an interesting topic actually, I'm not sure if N900 has a hardware cutoff14:56
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* timeless will try to pass it on internally14:57
ShadowJKL3&L4, iirc, only says Gaia will prevent startup on low voltage14:57
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SpeedEvilfont-ipad?14:57
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: GAIA14:58
DocScrutinizershould do that via kernel (probably apmd / acpid)14:58
DocScrutinizerCPU should get an IRQ on lowvolt detect, which I guess is GAIA's job14:59
ShadowJKOh wait, it does say GAIA Cutoff voltage 2.7V14:59
DocScrutinizeryep14:59
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: when you have the package ready, please share... I am surely interested :)14:59
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, so when LCD runs on 2.8V, and µSD 1.8-3.0..? :)15:01
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DocScrutinizer:-) the wonders of auto-stepup/down converters15:01
ShadowJKthis is more of a "No BME at all" territory though15:01
ShadowJKoh I didn't know gaia did stepup :)15:02
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jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: it's ready15:04
jacekowskii'm sending it to my server15:04
DocScrutinizerI'm not sure about it, but very probably it does15:04
jacekowskiand i need somebody to test it15:04
jacekowskimhm15:05
jacekowskihildon failed me15:05
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: do you have ARMEL and X86 deb's or only ARMEL?15:05
jacekowskionly armel15:05
DocScrutinizerbtw if somebody missed it: very smae bq24150 battery charger chip also *definitely* is able to provide VBUS 5V for a potential USB hostmode15:05
ptl_demands_PR12If it's optified, I can test it right now15:06
ShadowJKI wonder how long until, or if dsme would at all notice a killall -STOP bme_RX-51 :)15:06
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jacekowskiit's optified15:06
ptl_demands_PR12can you /dcc send it to me?15:06
jacekowskii'm not sure why there is no icon in menu15:06
jacekowskii can http send it to you15:06
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: it's easy to test15:06
ptl_demands_PR12ok15:06
ptl_demands_PR12not even the blue icon?15:06
jacekowskibut it has to finish uploading15:06
jacekowskino15:06
ptl_demands_PR12there's a bug of icons not updating after installing15:06
ptl_demands_PR12oh...15:06
jacekowskibut it's probably my fault15:07
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, oh do you have any idea what bme would do with the adc on gaia? afaict gaia's madc driver is open and documented.. I'm just not sure what bme uses it for :)15:07
ShadowJKOh right, battery temperature sensor15:08
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ShadowJK: Stskeeps: (hostmode) so for all I can guess USB host mode on N900 actually *is possible*15:08
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: EXACTLY15:08
DocScrutinizeroops capslock15:09
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, GAIA ADCIN0 --> BTEMP "R1110 10K", GAIA ADCIN4 --> BSI15:09
ShadowJK:)15:09
DocScrutinizeryoh15:10
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ptl_demands_PR12what?15:10
ptl_demands_PR12but isn't it physically impossible?15:10
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DocScrutinizerptl_demands_PR12: huh?15:10
javispedroDocScrutinizer: I find it weird that it's missing kernel stuff, since hostmode in the beagleboard is working OK afaik?15:10
ptl_demands_PR12DocScrutinizer: isn't USB Host mode dependent on hardware that is not there?15:11
ShadowJKjust means the battery temp sensor is on-device... probably behind one of those metal springs under the battery15:11
DocScrutinizerptl_demands_PR12: see above statement - it contains all the info15:11
ptl_demands_PR12[09:05:53] <DocScrutinizer> btw if somebody missed it: very smae bq24150 battery charger chip also *definitely* is able to provide VBUS 5V for a potential USB hostmode15:12
ptl_demands_PR12this one?15:12
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tackat_http://nienhueser.de/blog/?p=95 < Marble 'N Maemo15:13
DocScrutinizerptl_demands_PR12: jury still is out on 1707 PHY chip switching the pullup-R for device mode to the pulldowns for hostmode (or was it other way round?), but hostmode *can* work without that switching15:13
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DocScrutinizerptl_demands_PR12: yes, plus this one: [2010-04-08 14:08:15] <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: ShadowJK: Stskeeps: (hostmode) so for all I can guess USB host mode on N900 actually *is possible*15:13
C-S-B-N900DocScrutinizer: can haz host mode?15:13
C-S-B-N900solder free host mode?15:14
DocScrutinizeryes15:14
DocScrutinizermere sw issue15:14
* C-S-B-N900 is fed up of solder after he burnt his little finger jtagging a 360 for someone.15:15
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C-S-B-N900well if it is sw only, what reason is there for nokia not including.15:15
jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: jacekowski.org/maemo/15:15
jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: both .debs15:15
DocScrutinizercert. It's not conforming all the mandatory standards15:15
nidOwoot, archos got returned finally15:15
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jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: but i need somebody to tell me why it doesn't like my .desktop file15:16
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MiXu-I should solder a bit today15:17
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C-S-B-N900DocScrutinizer: well good find. :)15:17
C-S-B-N900Ill assume its just a bit flip?15:17
jacekowskianybody here familiar with hildon desktop and .desktop files?15:17
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MiXu-My car's central locking system probably has some damaged leads that need soldering :P15:17
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C-S-B-N900MiXu-: diy, my finger is in recovery15:18
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nidOsay, hows your job hunt going15:19
DocScrutinizerC-S-B-N900: a little bit more than that. You need the proper hostmode kernel drivers, and you need some cruft which probably was planned to go to bme but is missing for same reasons as the kerneldrivers15:19
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C-S-B-N900nidO: havent really pushed much as I have interview tomoz.15:19
C-S-B-N900overpaid wintel support role.15:19
nidOoverpaid jobs suck when im not doing them :(15:20
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: thanks! will get15:20
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DocScrutinizeranyway, USB is basically no directional bus, it can talk and listen to the differential D+/- line in host and device mode in the same way. So it's just a question of the driver to 'talk host'15:21
C-S-B-N900nidO: ukfast never got back to me.15:21
jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: don't install it yet15:21
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nidOdickheads15:21
jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: my hildon desktop just died15:21
C-S-B-N900lol,strong but yeah.15:21
jacekowskiand i'm not sure if it's related15:21
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C-S-B-N900nidO: when is your comapny opening a slot?15:22
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DocScrutinizerall above without any waranty. It's just how I understand things work15:22
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C-S-B-N900thanks DocScrutinizer, i appreciate the research.15:23
nidOC-S-B-N900: no idea on specifics, probably going to be needing more staff inside of 4-6 months though15:23
* DocScrutinizer away to get a N90015:24
C-S-B-N900DocScrutinizer: a new one?15:25
DocScrutinizeryup, need one to play with to bring free bme and hostmode to you, another one for actual phone usage15:25
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DocScrutinizers/free bme/bme-free ;-P15:26
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: ok15:27
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C-S-B-N900DocScrutinizer: are ypu rich.15:27
DocScrutinizernope, I'm totally broke15:27
C-S-B-N900as I cant see how, with gay abandon, one can just "get another n900"15:28
nidOwell if one was inclined, one could buy the one that fake broke, he offered to sell that for next to nothing15:28
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nidOworks fine other than him smashing the lcd, and thats cheap to replace15:29
DocScrutinizerwell, no food, and ultranice guy who's appreciating what I do15:29
nidOor just leave as-is, if it's purely a dev device15:29
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: maybe your desktop file is too fancy, you might try to trim it down... or maybe it's not the right location, I see that there aren't many .desktop files in /usr/share/applications15:29
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jacekowskithere is more in /usr/share/applications/hildon15:30
jacekowskiand i moved it there on my phone15:31
C-S-B-N900jacekowski: seems like the kind of person to have a fancy desktop file.15:31
ptl_demands_PR12ok15:31
jacekowskii moved it to that hildon subfolder15:31
jacekowskiand changed it to15:31
jacekowskihttp://pastebin.com/S0S3Dvgn15:31
jacekowskion my phone15:31
ptl_demands_PR12by 'too fancy' I mean the translations and such15:31
jacekowskiand it's still no bo15:32
jacekowskino go15:32
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jacekowskii'll try restarting15:32
jacekowskimaybe it's just watching for new files15:32
StskeepsRST38h: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcXtT3rZcqg15:32
DocScrutinizernidO: reference please15:33
jacekowskii just gave up15:33
jacekowskithat's not working15:33
ptl_demands_PR12:(15:33
nidODocScrutinizer: to fake's n900?15:34
DocScrutinizeryep15:34
nidOhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=599483&postcount=59715:34
nidOpictures of the broke phone are at15:34
nidOhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=598104&postcount=58315:34
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jacekowskidoes anybody have any ideas?15:37
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ptl_demands_PR12I don't. :(15:37
ptl_demands_PR12nidO: I ordered his stands15:37
nidOsame15:37
ptl_demands_PR12but it takes a long time to get to Brazil15:38
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nidOmine got to the uk in 3 days, was well impressed15:38
nidOtempted to order some more as he's got non-slip acrylic ones now, and a couple of styli as well15:38
MohammadAGopenssh-server + 24/7 server + scratchbox = compiling on the go :)15:39
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ShadowJKgrr15:49
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* ShadowJK was having fun unpacking 2 flags, one 2 bit integer and one signed 4bit integer from a byte in bq27200 eeprom, with busybox sh arithmetic, and nano (on device) segfaulted and ate my code >:-(15:50
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SpeedEvil:/15:51
jacekowskifun fun fun15:51
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jacekowskii've tried to rename one of .desktop files15:51
SpeedEvilI suggest awk15:51
jacekowskiand it disappeared from hildin15:52
jacekowskiafter simple rename15:52
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ptl_demands_PR12weird15:53
timeless_mbpsomeone remind me to ask crashanddie about fortezza :)15:53
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jacekowskifun fun fun16:04
jacekowskii've tried different thing16:04
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jacekowskii've renamed my chrome-browser.desktop to mc.desktop ( that icon already existed )16:05
jacekowskiand it worked16:05
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jacekowskimc icon is gone16:05
jacekowskiand it's replaced by chrome16:05
jacekowskiso WTF?16:05
andrewfblackMorning16:05
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ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: isn't there something on the development guide? maybe you have to register your desktop file, or something?16:11
lardmanhmm, has anyone written a control panel plugin to allow transitions, etc., to be disabled?16:12
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lardmanjacekowski: could be a dbus thing, or does chrome come with a dbus service file too?16:12
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jacekowskino16:13
jacekowskii think i know where is the problem16:13
jacekowski /uetc/xdg/menus16:13
jacekowski /etc/xdg/menus16:13
jacekowskithere is a list of all .desktop files16:13
jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: have you tried installing it16:14
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jacekowskibecause i might be catorise problem16:14
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: No, because you said I shouldn't16:14
ptl_demands_PR12I don't use catorise16:14
ptl_demands_PR12should I install?16:14
lardmanwhere's this chrome browser then?16:15
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jacekowskijacekowski.org/maemo/16:15
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jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: try16:15
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: sure, just a minute, will transfer to my N90016:16
lardmanhmm, big, will have to clear some space this evening16:16
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ptl_demands_PR12installing it...16:16
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ptl_demands_PR12no icon16:18
lardmanhm, overclocked N900s, how many have bitten the dust so far then?16:18
ptl_demands_PR12let's try rebooting16:18
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shvedsky_(test) can I talk?16:18
jacekowskido you have catorise?16:18
lardmanshvedsky: we can hear you16:19
shvedsky_thx16:19
lardmanshvedsky_: or rather you16:19
lardman;)16:19
shvedsky_both me, but one is unregistered16:19
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lcukhey lardman16:20
lardmanhey lcuk, how's things?16:20
ptl_demands_PR12rebooted, no Icon yet, jacekowski. I don't have catorise16:20
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jacekowskihmm ok16:21
jacekowskiuninstall it16:21
jacekowskii have new package16:21
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lardmanjacekowski: how well does it perform?16:21
jacekowskiuploading it16:22
jacekowskilardman: don't know yet16:22
lardmanah I see :)16:22
jacekowskiso far i'm fuc**** around with icon16:22
lcuklardman a little more busy than i expected for easter16:22
lardmantell me about it16:23
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lardmanlcuk: family well I trust?16:24
ptl_demands_PR12it works well16:25
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jacekowskii see the problem16:25
MohammadAGjacekowski, where does chrome install? (binary)16:26
jacekowskiok16:26
lcukyeah simon :) everyone cool16:26
jacekowskithere is new package16:26
jacekowskisame address16:26
ptl_demands_PR12what was the problem?16:26
jacekowskiupdated version16:26
jacekowskiuninstall it16:26
jacekowskiand install again16:26
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: ok16:26
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: there is an issue16:26
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ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: when you fill some fields, by default it uses uppercase16:26
jacekowskicatorise watches /usr/share/applications/hildon/16:26
MohammadAGhildon-desktop watches that too16:27
ptl_demands_PR12so if you are writing posts, you have to keep pressing shift for lowercase16:27
jacekowskiand but it's only updated when package is installed16:27
jacekowskii mean - catorise is updated16:27
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MohammadAGmoved the .desktop file16:28
jacekowskiso just moving file from /usr/share/applications/ /usr/share/applications/hildon/ by hand wouldn't work16:28
jacekowskiwith catorise16:28
jacekowskii'm not sure how about clean hildon16:28
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jacekowskibut anyways16:29
lardmanjacekowski: catorise uses the same paths16:29
jacekowskilardman: i know16:29
X-Fadejavispedro: ping16:29
lardmanso yes, your icon is in the wrong place atm16:29
jacekowskilardman: but catorise is updating icons cache differently16:29
jacekowskionly when there is file installed by dpkg to /usr/share/applications/hildon/16:29
jacekowskianywas16:29
jacekowskii've got to do some work16:29
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javispedroX-Fade: pong16:31
X-Fadejavispedro: I have a symbols package with PR1.0 symbols for the critical libs.16:31
javispedroaha16:32
X-Fadejavispedro: If I install those in the rootstrap before trying to build with debian squeeze devkit against PR1.2 builder, this should help work?16:32
javispedrogenerated somehow?16:32
jacekowski1.0 is useless16:32
X-Fade- help ;)16:32
javispedromaybe you'd need to edit MINVER, need to check on that, but should work16:32
javispedro(so that any non found symbol generates a PR1.2 dep)16:33
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X-FadeHmm yeah, not sure how that will work.16:33
* javispedro hasn't install the squeeze devkit yet16:33
jacekowskihow to submit a .deb to maemo-extras-devel?16:33
X-FadeI installed it on the builder.16:33
javispedroX-Fade: there's a remote but not ignorable chance that just installing it might cause a package not to build16:33
X-FadeCan be installed next to the old ones.16:34
javispedroX-Fade: ouch16:34
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X-Fadejavispedro: On the host, sbdmock config hasn't changed for the regular builders of course.16:34
javispedroah, nice16:34
javispedroX-Fade: could you distribute the symbols files? I'd like to test the stuff locally too16:35
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hrwX-Fade: do you plan to update those symbols with 1.1/1.2 versions?16:35
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ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: another issue, I could bring the virtual keyboard for symbols like [] {} only the first time, now it doesn't appear anymore and anyway the first symbol i tried wasn't sent to the field I was writing on16:35
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ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: this look very promising though, I hope you upload to extras-devel so we can flaunt this to all our Android-using friends. lol16:43
lardmancu later chaps16:44
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jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: i'm just reading how to send it16:46
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: nice :D thanks.16:47
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jacekowskii've sent a request16:50
jacekowskimhm16:51
jacekowskii would have to upload it to non free16:52
X-Fadehrw: This is just a proof of concept, let's see if we can make that work.16:53
hrwwould be great16:53
X-FadeWould not solve all problems, but at least it would be more sane.16:54
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jacekowskiwho approves these requests?16:54
X-Fadejavispedro: me ;)16:54
X-Fadeehm jacekowski ^^^16:55
jacekowskican you approve it16:55
jacekowskibefore i go home16:55
X-Fadejacekowski: check your mail.16:56
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StskeepsX-Fade: is 1.2 squeeze devkit?16:56
X-FadeStskeeps: no16:56
X-FadeStskeeps: That is the hack part ;)16:56
Stskeepscos i've seen funky issues with Breaks: and old dpkg16:57
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X-FadeLet's see what happens. I rather have it break in extreme cases then with every regular package.16:59
javispedroX-Fade: t-tan suggested creating a temporary sbdmock and throwing most -devel packages (at least a selection of dangerous candidates) to it for a test17:00
X-Fadejavispedro: Yes, I'm setting up a fremantletest build queue on the builder.17:00
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X-FadeNot going to setup a repo at the output, will just put them all in a web dir I guess.17:01
javispedrofor a start the squeeze devkit tends to throw quite a few more warnings about stuff17:02
javispedros/stuff/shlibdeps stuff17:02
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javispedro(even without symbols files)17:02
javispedrobut are pointing potential problems that were already happening even with the older debian devkit, so no problem there (other than the extra verbosity)17:03
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jacekowskii'm confused17:03
jacekowskidput -f fremantle-extras-devel-non-free PACKAGE_VERSION_*.changes17:03
jacekowskinvm17:04
jacekowskii'll rtfm17:04
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SceltPR1.2?17:04
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jacekowskinah17:06
jacekowskiwhat is the content of that *changes file?17:07
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javispedro(sigh) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/debtest/1.0.2-1/17:08
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ptl_demands_PR12debtest?17:09
javispedrosomeone upload his hello world to -devel :P17:09
javispedro*uploaded17:09
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Stskeepsi'm amazed at how many deodorant advertisements there are on hulu17:21
Stskeepsmust be the season17:21
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bullet`hello room17:21
bullet`any news about the pr1217:21
bullet`?17:21
frosty`yes, but we can't tell you17:22
bullet`hehe17:22
bullet`ok17:22
hrwbullet`: 12 November17:22
bullet`i know that news too that no body knows17:22
MohammadAGbullet`, pr12?17:22
bullet`hehe17:22
bullet`just skipped the dot17:22
MohammadAGpr12 is coming in 301217:22
frosty`lol17:22
bullet`hehe17:23
bullet`what an amazing time it ll be17:23
MohammadAGindeed17:23
MohammadAGthe N900 will be running @15GHz17:23
bullet`even my brain will support plug n play !!17:23
MohammadAGif you live that long :P17:24
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ptl_demands_PR12It is said that people usually die only after they reach some objective in life17:24
bullet`15ghz is nothing, by 3000, science would gone reletavity to the processor level ... quantum all the way17:24
bullet`every calculation in no time :p17:24
bullet`ok than i'm living till 3k17:25
bullet`:)17:25
ptl_demands_PR12PR 1.2 is making us get more longevity by locating this objective too far in time17:25
Sceltptl_demands_PR12: pr1.2 \o/17:25
bullet`my n900 is really realy not behaving these days17:26
bullet`as it knows it needs 1.2 and now refusing to live with 1.117:26
Sceltme too17:26
bullet`the processor usage is going constantly 100%17:26
Sceltbattery dying17:26
bullet`some osso process17:26
ptl_demands_PR12mine too, and I can't update 3 apps because of that17:26
bullet`no not the battery17:26
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bullet`and than that tracke-indexer process17:27
bullet`i dont know what these processes want !!!17:27
bullet`y now17:27
lcukblood17:27
ptl_demands_PR12And that's not justice and love17:28
ptl_demands_PR12that's PR 1.217:28
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ptl_demands_PR12They want the same as we want.17:28
bullet`yes17:28
bullet`the software has evolved !!!17:28
MohammadAGactually i think lcuk is right, the N900 has attacked me a couple of times17:29
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bullet`looks like while i was sleeping and i leave it connect to internet ... my n900 went to internet , saw the jurrasic park, and somehow *understood* that "life finds its way"17:29
bullet`sigh17:29
ptl_demands_PR12MohammadAG: aim for the heart17:29
bullet`is n900 going to take over the world17:30
MohammadAGptl_demands_PR12, location location location17:30
ptl_demands_PR12MohammadAG: look at the datasheets to see where the CPU is located17:30
MohammadAGwhere is it?17:30
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lcukbullet`, it already has17:30
lcukyou just havent noticed yet17:30
bullet`i'm just starting to notice all this !17:30
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ptl_demands_PR12MohammadAG: http://rs359.rapidshare.com/files/357130766/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf ---> N900 schematics17:31
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ptl_demands_PR12let's find out17:31
MohammadAGi think it's on the left side17:32
MohammadAGunder the keyboard17:32
bullet`btw17:32
bullet`how many ppl r dual booting n900 here ?17:32
MohammadAGi did it some time ago17:33
ptl_demands_PR12MohammadAG: er17:33
ptl_demands_PR12LOL17:33
Sceltbullet`: I only dual boot my gf17:33
ptl_demands_PR12MohammadAG: there's a message from you on the page where I found this pdf17:33
ptl_demands_PR12http://www.nokiausers.net/forum/nokia-n900/34175-n900-schematics-now-available.html17:33
MohammadAGptl_demands_PR12, :)17:33
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ptl_demands_PR12Scelt: which bootloader did you install on your girlfriend?17:33
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bullet`what is it like dual booting a gf !!17:33
MohammadAGpetitboot most probably ptl_demands_PR1217:34
bullet`y oh y .. is it called RX51 ????17:34
MohammadAGcause it's from Area-5117:34
bullet`was it decided in the end that this device will be called n900?17:34
bullet`internally was it always rx51 ?17:34
Sceltptl_demands_PR12: a small one. called fallos17:34
bullet`20k/s download :(17:34
MohammadAGRX is ReX17:34
bullet`as in trex ?17:35
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hrwbullet`: 770 was SU-18, n800 was RX-34, n810 was RX-44, n900 is RX-5117:35
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* MohammadAG wanted to say that's what she said17:35
hrwbullet`: each nokia product has such name17:35
MohammadAGbut..17:35
* MohammadAG decided not to17:35
Kurppa_RX-51 a.k.a. Rover.17:35
SceltRange rover?17:35
bullet`another question is that was R always for Rover17:35
StskeepsRX obviously means Rex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex)17:35
Stskeepsking of devices17:35
Stskeeps:)17:35
bullet`whats a rover17:35
hrwI love 700KB/s limit on rapidshare17:35
bullet`lemme consult a dictionary first17:36
javispedroRoverosaurus Rex17:36
MohammadAGStskeeps, ha! so I was right17:36
bullet`roamer, wandered :)17:36
bullet`ok17:36
bullet`bur RS is giving me only 18k right now17:37
bullet`ahh17:37
hrwbullet`: and during prototype phase is was N00 probably too17:37
bullet`100% usage still on my sweetest n90017:37
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bullet`its not ginving me anymore attention :( ... says it needs pr 1.2 baddd !!17:37
hrwI used n810 with n00 on it some time ago17:37
MohammadAGbullet`, top it17:37
bullet`yea17:37
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bullet`ok the schematics r downloaded now17:42
bullet`should we locate the proc and shoot it ???17:42
bullet`but aftyer that will it be able to work and install or1.2 when its time come !!17:42
bullet`>17:42
bullet`?17:42
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javispedroyes, the nearest gremlin will come and fix it for you17:44
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bullet`marina harrison !!!17:44
bullet`is what i saw on the first page !!17:44
bullet`i dont know if she is cool or not17:44
bullet`but i want to know that17:44
bullet`is she a model ?17:44
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* javispedro kills developer for mixing tabs and spaces for indentation17:49
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lcukbullet`, to help make your mind up if shes cool or not: marina is running pr1.217:49
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bullet`ok she is the coolest girl in the world17:49
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bullet`no one can says anything against that17:49
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bullet`i dont knpow where marina is right now ... but i'm going to sleep ... alone !!17:51
bullet`sigh !!17:51
lcukgnite17:52
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MohammadAGzoutube rocks!17:55
MohammadAGit uses the media player now (and the dsp)17:56
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ptl_demands_PR12is it working with the new youtube?17:56
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kamuizoutube is good now?17:58
kamuisweet17:58
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SpeedEvil_Wacky. First call on n900.17:58
SpeedEvil_(incoming)17:58
ptl_demands_PR12?17:58
kamuianyone use the espeak incoming call plugin?17:58
Treibholzhmpf... no cron...17:58
kamuifor some reason, even though I have named contacts, it only reads off the number17:58
kamui...17:58
ptl_demands_PR12kamui: eSpeakCaller? I do17:58
kamuiyea that ptl_demands_PR1217:59
kamuihow does it work for you17:59
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kamuiyour names get spoken?17:59
SpeedEvil_kamui: I would if I got more than one call per three months.17:59
kamuilols17:59
ptl_demands_PR12I think so, I usually forgot to run it after reboot17:59
ptl_demands_PR12lemme try it.17:59
kamuioh man, didn't realize it had to be run after each reboot17:59
kamuihowever, Im on my longest uptime yet17:59
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tgalalmy app is in python, in control file should I set architecture to all or any? and under scratchbox should I issue dpkg-buildpackage for i386 or armel target?18:03
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baraujotgalal, if your app is pure python (e.g. nothing is compiled) you can use "all" architecture in debian/control18:05
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tgalalbaraujo, thanks after doing so, the app installed successfully on my N900. In auto builder logs it shows only i386, is this correct or I did something wrong? https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/retroconv_0.5.0-1/18:06
ptl_demands_PR12kamui: it doesn't seem to be working now. Weird.18:06
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baraujotgalal, IHMO it is correct, because you have to build it only once to be able to use on both archs... autobuilder must run a i386 build because it's faster18:08
tgalalbaraujo, Great! So now I should wait till it appear in extras devel18:08
kamuioh well, it was a nice idea18:09
kamuiI think...I want to buy that battery for the N90018:09
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baraujotgalal, yeah, it shouldn't take long :)18:09
kamuiit doesn't look as bad as I thought18:09
kamuiIll definately be picking it up if I switch over to tmobile, I hear battery life when you have 3G activated is an attrocity18:10
tgalalbaraujo, ok thanks a lot :)18:10
* kamui looks at his N900, and a solitary tear rolls down his cheek thinking about his at&t edge connection woes18:10
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Mece'lo maemites!18:18
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Kurppa_kamui: at least for me, switching from 3G to 2G about doubled my battery life.18:19
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Kurppa_It's partly because none of the network operators here support a certain power saving feature in 3G mode.18:20
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Kurppa_The 3G connection does not go idle for 50 seconds after transferring even a single ping packet, so with all my presence accounts online, the 3G data connection never ever sleeps.18:21
nidOwell half the reason most people's battery lives suffer in 3g mode is because the radio's having to activate and hunt for signal so often in low-reception areas, which are much more common on 3g obviously18:21
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Kurppa_Absolutely. I've noticed the same battery drain in optimal 3G conditions as well though.18:22
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nidOcould really use properly accurate battery level monitors to check exact usage, tbh18:23
Kurppa_Optimal meaning 5 operator antennas in this floor of the building.18:23
nidObeen keeping an eye on things with battery-eye and had a period of about 4 and a half hours this morning of it reporting my battery level *increasing*18:24
Kurppa_Yeah. battery-eye is not that accurate :-)18:24
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DocScrutinizerI think main reason for *any* data connection to suck battery is TX, which takes place as well on unsolicited inbound TCP packets18:25
nidOI have found out that an obvious way to massively increase my battery life further was to disable the bluetooth connection to my system18:25
nidOim used to just leaving BT enabled and connected as on symbian devices it idles well enough to draw essentially no power18:25
Kurppa_Yeah. There's something wrong with BT as far as I can tell.18:25
Kurppa_It also starts to cause weird behavior in my device, after being active for a few hours and connecting to a few different BT accessories.18:26
DocScrutinizervisible BT sends baecons18:26
nidOI disabled the connection on my pc yesterday (leaving bluetooth actually active on the device but no longer connected to the pc) and from the past 24 hour's level drop according to battery-eye, i've halved the device's idle power draw18:26
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jacekowskimhm18:27
jacekowskiUploading to fremantle-extras-devel-non-free (via scp to drop.maemo.org):18:27
jacekowskiPermission denied (publickey).18:27
jacekowskilost connection18:27
javispedroyou have to put a public ssh key into garage18:28
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jacekowskii did18:28
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X-Fadejacekowski:18:29
X-FadeFailed publickey for jacekowski from 109.224.x.x18:29
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jacekowskii copied my authorized_keys from my server and pasted it into box18:30
jacekowskiand i can login to that server18:31
X-Fadejacekowski: you need to paste id_rsa.pub18:31
jacekowskii don't have id_rsa18:31
jacekowskii have id_dsa18:31
X-Fadejacekowski: Not your own authorized_keys.18:31
jacekowskiand id_dsa.pub18:31
X-Fadejacekowski: That one then ;)18:31
X-Fadethe pub one!18:31
jacekowskii know18:31
X-Fadejacekowski: Ok, just to make sure ;)18:31
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X-FadeAh, I see the problem.18:32
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X-Fadejacekowski: You pasted 2 keys and one has root@jac* attached to the end.18:33
jacekowskiyes18:33
X-Fadejacekowski: without space.18:33
jacekowskiand that's one i'm using18:33
jacekowskioh18:34
X-Fadejacekowski: So I'd advice you to drop it, it is not needed.18:34
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* Mizaku is back18:36
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jacekowskithat's how it stands in id_dsa.pub http://jacekowski.org/keys.txt18:37
jacekowskiand that's how it was working for ages18:37
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Mizakuthat site is weird (O.O)18:38
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ptl_demands_PR12which site?18:39
jacekowskilet me generate rsa keys18:39
X-Fadejacekowski: no need.18:39
X-Fadejacekowski: just paste the ssh-dss and the key part in the field. Leave out the host.18:39
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* mgedmin notes that the third bit of an ssh public key is called the comment field, or something like that18:39
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jacekowskino18:39
dotblankI have a script I would luike to run as a daemon and at phone startup18:39
dotblankHow would I go about doing that18:40
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Mizakuhttp://jacekowski.org/~blessjah/log/   that's better18:40
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tgalalDoes this mean something has gone wrong ?! http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/retroconv/0.5.0-1/   I'm getting fed up with this packaging thing. This is like my 20th attempt :(18:40
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mgedmindotblank, on a N900? write an (old) upstart config file in /etc/event.d/18:40
dotblankmgedmin, yea. Thanks for the info18:41
nidOI would say something appears to have gone pretty badly wrong, yes18:41
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jacekowskiMizaku: that's not mine18:42
jacekowskiX-Fade: i made new rsa key18:42
jacekowskiX-Fade: and it's still failing18:42
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Mizakubut it begins with your url..?18:43
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jacekowskiMizaku: but that's not mine18:43
jacekowskisomebody has shell account on my server18:43
MizakuDumdadum....18:43
jacekowskiwell couple people have shell account there18:44
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jacekowskiand drop.maemo.org doesn't like my brand new keys18:44
X-Fadetgalal: Let me check your package.18:45
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tgalalX-Fade, thanks!18:45
jacekowskiX-Fade: are these keys updated straight away?18:46
jacekowskior i have to wait?18:46
X-Fadejacekowski: no, cron job.18:46
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jacekowskithat could explain it18:46
MohammadAGjacekowski, it took 10 mins yesterday18:47
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MohammadAGkept saying perm denied (publickey)18:47
jacekowskii added new rsa key18:48
jacekowskiand will wait18:48
X-Fadetgalal: Don't use uppercase section names, it is user/desktop18:48
X-Fadetgalal: If you change that, it will be fine.18:48
tgalalX-Fade, thanks I'll give it a shot18:48
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jacekowskiSuccessfully uploaded packages.18:49
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tgalalX-Fade, still the same problem after going small case letters.  I tried to re upload again now it says The same or newer version (retroconv 0.5.0-1) is already in extras-devel18:57
X-Fadetgalal: Increase the version number after it has been accepted once.18:57
X-Fadetgalal: Also the interface can take up to 30 mins to import the data.18:58
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jacekowskiX-Fade: does it accept dsa keys?18:59
X-Fadejacekowski: should.18:59
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jacekowskiSuccessfully uploaded packages.19:06
jacekowskiok19:06
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jacekowskichrome finally uploaded19:06
jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: chrome uploaded19:06
Sceltjacekowski: WHERE19:07
tripzerogoogle chrome?19:07
tgalalX-Fade, great!!! I increased the version number, re uploaded and now the description shows. But the file size is still 0, should I wait or what ? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/retroconv/0.5.1-1/19:07
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brikVDVsx: do you mind if I pm about gsoc?19:07
jacekowskito maemo-extras-devel19:07
VDVsxbrik, sure19:08
Sceltwhere I can follow newest devel or garage changes?19:08
jacekowskiappwatch19:08
jacekowskiScelt: it's not in repository yet19:08
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Sceltjacekowski: appwatch is a bit too simple19:09
jacekowskiok19:09
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jacekowskichromium is in repo19:09
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jacekowskii just hope that dependencies are correct19:10
jacekowskiwell, i'm pretty much sure that they are not19:10
tgalalX-Fade, YES FINALLY! Can't thank you enough! sorry it's my first time :)19:10
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* lcuk gets tgalal a cigarette19:11
ptl_demands_PR12lol19:11
jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: chrome in repo19:11
nidOtgalal: dont forget a bugtracker ;)19:11
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: cool,19:11
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: lemme refresh to see if I can find it there. Did you upload libxss too?19:11
jacekowskiyes19:11
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jacekowski( it's only package i've got in Depends:)19:12
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jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: look under chromium19:12
jacekowskiMohammadAG: chrome in repo19:12
nidOi'm either blind or not seeing it19:13
jacekowskilet me check19:13
MohammadAGjacekowski, already installed it from your site :)19:13
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MohammadAGhad to move the .desktop file into ./hildon19:13
tgalalnidO, I will, but let me enjoy this relief for a while before I mess things up again lol19:13
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ptl_demands_PR12ok! I will also post in a brazilian forum where there are some people too keen on trying software, will ask them to report bugs19:13
MohammadAGfrom /usr/share/applications19:13
MohammadAGjacekowski, is it optified?19:13
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ptl_demands_PR12it is19:14
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Sceltptl_demands_PR12: u talking about google chrome, dat browsah?19:15
jacekowskiMohammadAG: yes19:16
ptl_demands_PR12Scelt: yes, thanks to jacekowski19:16
tripzeroso long as it has flickscroll, it'd be quite an awesome mobile browser19:16
jacekowskiit doesn't19:16
Sceltptl_demands_PR12: okay, and where I can find it? from extras-devel?19:16
jacekowskiat least not now19:16
tripzero:(19:16
ptl_demands_PR12Scelt: jacekowski has just uploaded it, I am refreshing to see if I can find it19:17
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jacekowskiX-Fade: what i've done wrong?19:17
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SpeedEviljacekowski: you were naughty when you were 6?19:17
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SpeedEvilYou can install some addons to regular firefox to make it more usable touch19:18
SpeedEvilall-in-one gestures, for example19:18
SceltI don't like FF19:18
ptl_demands_PR12no results on extras-devel19:18
jacekowskii see it here19:19
jacekowskihttp://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/c/19:19
ptl_demands_PR12maybe the repository index has a cron job to be refreshed too19:20
jacekowskipossible19:20
ptl_demands_PR12why is it non-free?19:20
SpeedEvilautobulider down, can only up binaries?19:20
jacekowskibecause i'm to lazy to create proper debian package19:20
SpeedEvilwell - not down but can't make 1.1.1 binaries19:20
jacekowskithat would build on autobuilder19:20
SpeedEvilor am I confused19:20
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jacekowskiand it would take ages to build19:21
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jacekowskiand i had to hack scratchbox to build it19:21
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MohammadAGjacekowski, do you have the .tar.gz uploaded somewhere?19:21
jacekowskino19:21
MohammadAGso you're not making it open?19:22
jacekowskii just finished a package19:22
jacekowskiprobably on saturday when i'll have little bit of time19:22
jacekowskito make proper debian package19:22
MohammadAGno not a proper one19:22
MohammadAGjust a .tar.gz of the source19:22
jacekowskiit will go together19:23
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Sceltkonttori: Ho ho ho. Merry Christmas?19:23
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jacekowskianyways19:24
jacekowskitime to go home19:24
ptl_demands_PR12good rest19:24
Sceltwell done, son19:24
Sceltmay the Force be with you19:24
ptl_demands_PR12hakuna matata!19:24
konttoriScelt: ho ho, to you too.19:25
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Sceltptl_demands_PR12: what's that PR12 you are demanding?19:27
ptl_demands_PR12Scelt: PR 1.2, the mythical update that never comes™19:27
Scelt;D19:27
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ptl_demands_PR12Scelt: many packages on the repositories are currently broken, many bugs in bugzilla are marked fixed by more than a month, PR1.2 packages have been released for the scratchbox environment for almost one month and Nokia still hasn't released this service pack. I am just voicing the opinion of many users about that delay, and I don't get the excuse that it's due to necessary testing.19:31
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lcukptl_demands_PR12 how do you know its unnecessary?19:32
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trumeeguys anybody using sip?19:32
Mecezchydem's flickr app looks nice.. http://zchydem.enume.net/2010/04/08/my-first-qt-quick-app-quickflickr/19:33
trumeein N95 i could open the addressbook, select a phone number and do "Call using sip"19:33
trumeein N90, if i click on any phone number it straight away calls the mobile provider, and there is no way to choose it as a sip call19:33
Sceltptl_demands_PR12: I gotcha bro. Even I'm a Finn and very proud of the work of Nokia, I'm still a bit disappointed and sad about the situation in this current world where competitioners take their share from Nokia. For example navigation should have been free from the day one and they shouldn't have waited for the all these years for the touch phones. They are late in everything :(19:33
trumee /N90/N900/19:33
ptl_demands_PR12lcuk: not this flamewar again... I do not "know", because I do know nothing inside Nokia. But this is taking too long and the consequences of the packages being delayed are been felt19:33
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ptl_demands_PR12lcuk: daily in this very channel you see just too many issues caused from the delay of PR1.2, from autobuilder problems to packages that can't update due to a lack of updated libs like libhildon1 and conflict of names like qt4-maemo vs. qt419:34
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PhonicUKhey all19:36
ptl_demands_PR12hello19:36
PhonicUKhows everyone in maemo land?19:36
toggles_wmeego home now19:37
PhonicUKlol19:37
Stskeepslo toggles_w19:37
dotblankhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4952219:37
dotblankjust got all that to work :)19:37
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toggles_wStskeeps: hello! I'm coming to visit, clean off the couch19:37
PhonicUKim pulling 3.3Mbps while on the bus :|19:37
MohammadAGoperation temporrly disabled due to low memory err19:38
lcukptl, sure there is an ambiguity between sdk and real machines and i am also sure the devs and everyone involved is doing whatever possible to expidite the release.19:38
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Lateralusany suggestions as to how to fix an mmc set to read only?19:40
Lateralusor any idea as to what the heck happened to make it so?19:40
LateralusJust noticed my camera app won't take pictures on my N900, "operation failed", and the mmc I added awhile back can't be written to.19:40
ptl_demands_PR12Lateralus: usually a filesystem is set to read-only when some corruption is detected on it19:40
VDVsx~poke lcuk19:41
* infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind lcuk, pokes lcuk repeatedly, hilarity ensues.19:41
ptl_demands_PR12Lateralus: you should umount it, fsck it, then remount it with the errors corrected19:41
Lateralusptl_demands_PR12: That's fairly vague?19:41
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lcuk~fsck VDVsx19:41
Lateralusptl_demands_PR12: I will try19:41
infobote2fsck /dev/VDVsx : warning! filesystem contains dumbasses!19:41
VDVsx:D19:41
javispedro~botsnack19:41
infobotthanks, javispedro19:41
javispedrosuch a nice bot.19:41
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Lateralusbah, device or resource busy -_-19:43
ptl_demands_PR12lololol19:44
ptl_demands_PR12a brazilian n900 blog has a new post about the N900... watching sygic with brazil maps and PR 1.2...19:44
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lcukptl_demands_PR12, links help19:45
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ptl_demands_PR12"Meanwhile, in Nokia Headquartes... '- trainee, get me a coffee!' - '- But, sir, I was going to turn the coffee machine off to power up and bring online the server with PR1.2!' - '- The users have waited too long, they can wait a little longer. Get me my coffee!'"19:46
ptl_demands_PR12lcuk: it's in portuguese, but ok... http://n900.aguilarj.com/?p=112419:46
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ptl_demands_PR12the blog's owner is the developer of PySafe.19:47
b-man|laptophmm, it looks like repo.meego.com is down.. :P "Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to repo.meego.com"19:47
trumeeguys, is there a cron on N900? my intentions are to mute the volume when i go to bed.19:47
Stskeepsb-man|laptop: maintaince19:47
b-man|laptopah19:47
ptl_demands_PR12trumee: there are many crons, you can use fcron that is more cron-like but adds an extra service to the N900, or you can use alarmed which is an alarmd interface - alarmd is a scheduler daemon that comes with the N90019:48
b-man|laptopStskeeps: were they suppose to be announcing the mobile UX today?19:49
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lcukok ptl thats not a blog post thats another rant19:49
ptl_demands_PR12trumee: there is also another interface to alarmd called System Event Scheduler but it seems less mature19:49
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Stskeepsb-man|laptop: hm? :P19:49
trumeeptl_demands_PR12: i guess i can simply use amixer to set volume to 0 using alarmd.19:50
ptl_demands_PR12lcuk: actually it seems more like a joke, that happens when people are just frustrated. They use humour sometimes...19:50
b-man|laptopStskeeps: i saw some people talking about it on irc yesterday19:50
ptl_demands_PR12Treibholz: and you can use alarmed to configure that19:50
jacekowskiX-Fade: help19:50
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javispedrolcuk: it's half rant half news :)19:50
lcukptl_demands_PR12, speaking of humour, Marina Harisson is on pr1.2 :p19:50
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LateralusWTF19:51
trumeeptl_demands_PR12: any idea if it reduced the volume of the email/IM notifications. Bloody phone woke me up at 5AM this morning because of email notification.19:51
ptl_demands_PR12lol19:51
Lateralusptl_demands_PR12: did that, seemed to be ok, opened the camera lid and the N900 beeped/screeched and won't turn on.19:51
trumee /reduced/reduces/19:51
Lateralusturned off, and now won't turn on.19:51
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ptl_demands_PR12Lateralus: ???? What did you do?19:52
Lateralusptl_demands_PR12: I opened the damn camera lid19:52
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ptl_demands_PR12and this bricked your phone?19:52
ptl_demands_PR12oh19:52
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jacekowskitrumee: i would go and see specialist19:52
ptl_demands_PR12the filesystem problem19:52
ptl_demands_PR12:/19:53
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ptl_demands_PR12you remounted the filesystem ok?19:53
trumeejacekowski: :)19:53
jacekowskitrumee: i can set up alarm in n900 and it's not going to wake me up19:53
jacekowskie-mail notfication is like - ding19:53
Lateralusptl_demands_PR12: after removing the battery and sticking it back in it turned on19:53
Lateralusptl_demands_PR12: I was very angry for those few seconds.19:53
ptl_demands_PR12Lateralus: nice, and did it boot properly? is it working?19:53
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Lateralusptl_demands_PR12: seems to be fine19:54
ptl_demands_PR12cool@19:54
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Lateralusptl_demands_PR12: nome-vfs-daemon keeps crashing.19:54
Lateralusgnome*19:54
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Lateralusptl_demands_PR12: bah, it's still read-only19:56
Triztis there a "min free space needed" for pr1.2?19:56
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jacekowskimaybe my .dsc or .changes file is wrong19:57
ptl_demands_PR12Trizt: when it's out we will know19:57
Lateralusptl_demands_PR12: fsck just goes through the same steps each time I run it.19:58
ptl_demands_PR12Lateralus: that's weird, because the fstab (the file which lists the filesystems to be mounted) is generated at boot-time, so it could not have been a change in the config files. This means the filesystem is still corrupted. Have your fsck fixed all the problems in the filesystem? Was it MyDocs? If it was, maybe it's not fsck, maybe it's another program to fix that19:58
ptl_demands_PR12MyDocs is a vfat filesystem19:59
Lateralusptl_demands_PR12: no, this is an external card, not related to MyDocs19:59
ptl_demands_PR12hmm19:59
Lateralusit's just music, etc19:59
ptl_demands_PR12oh, ok19:59
javispedroNAUGHTY PROGRAMMER!!! SPANK SPANK SPANK!!! lol VDVsx19:59
ptl_demands_PR12anyway, I've just verified and fsck supports vfat19:59
Lateralusetc being a deb I made of Stellarium, and some tgz file19:59
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ptl_demands_PR12maybe you can temporarily copy its contents to another place, reformat it completely and put the contents back again20:00
Lateralusyeah, I'm trying that now, thanks20:01
LateralusI'll format the card on a separate computer if this doesn't work20:01
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konttoriTrizt: it's 30 megs (or 28, can't remember)20:04
Triztin that case I have space enough20:05
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konttoriactually something like 22 is enough, but we set the limit to 30 (or 28...)20:05
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* Trizt ods20:06
* Trizt nods20:06
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dmj726_n900Hmm...trying to decide the best method to distribute a video for my gsoc proposal.20:07
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jogglerspedrowhy, oh why.20:07
SpeedEvil_youtube.20:08
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Stskeepsjogglerspedro: ?20:09
jogglerspedroStskeeps: they made me fall in love with this joggler thingie only to realize they're only shipping UK :(20:09
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jogglerspedroStskeeps: oh, you have one too iirc?20:10
GAN900lol20:10
PhonicUKhow do i find large files on rootfs?20:10
Stskeepsjogglerspedro: yes20:10
GAN900jogglerspedro, I'm pretty sure this is unhealthy. :P20:10
PhonicUK23mb free with extras repo disabled20:10
Stskeepsjogglerspedro: not living in UK though20:10
jacekowskijogglerspedro: i ordered one20:11
SpeedEvil_PhonicUK: /usr/bin/gnu/find / -mount -size +999k -ctime -6620:11
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Stskeepsjogglerspedro: find a willing UKian to buy and ship you one20:11
ptl_demands_PR12PhonicUK: it's quite difficult to have a file in rootfs that does not belong to a package. There is a perl script which can tell you the usage on rootfs of each package, let me find it for you20:11
Stskeepsif they're not out20:11
jacekowski-66?20:11
VDVsxjogglerspedro, not my code, blame rasterman, I guess :D20:11
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SpeedEvil_jacekowski: younger than 66 days20:12
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jacekowskii know that20:12
jacekowskiwhat's the point of it20:12
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trumeeptl_demands_PR12: cant download alarmed from extras-devel, it has a qt-4.6.2 dependency20:12
javispedroVDVsx: excuses :)20:12
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SpeedEvil_jacekowski: where 66 is some number of days shorter than the time since the last update20:12
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ptl_demands_PR12PhonicUK: the perl scripts are here --> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=500101&postcount=720:13
PhonicUKty20:13
SpeedEvil_jacekowski: so you only find added20:13
trumeeStskeeps: is the audio ticking problem resolved for joggler?20:13
ptl_demands_PR12trumee: :( and when I "demand" PR1.2 people flame me... see? We need this update.20:13
Stskeepstrumee: not yet20:13
Stskeepstrumee: we're investigating still20:13
ptl_demands_PR12trumee: can you get version 0.1.8-3 from its page? I think this version does not depend on qt-4.6.220:14
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trumeeptl_demands_PR12: cant find its page :(20:16
trumeeptl_demands_PR12: its not in garage, and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46594&highlight=alarmd doesnt list the url20:17
javispedroStskeeps: here, I found an Ukian: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ukian20:17
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Sceltptl_demands_PR12: chrome already in devel?20:17
ptl_demands_PR12trumee: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/alarmed/0.1.8-3/20:17
trumeeptl_demands_PR12: cheers20:18
ptl_demands_PR12Scelt: lemme see20:18
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ptl_demands_PR12Scelt: it has not shown up here yet, after updating.20:21
Sceltptl_demands_PR12: okthx. later then20:21
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javispedroStskeeps: btw, could I ask you for a boot dmesg of a joggler?20:22
Stskeepsjavispedro: yes, gladly, give me a couple of seconds20:22
Stskeepsjavispedro: jogglerhacks.blogspot.com for interesting stuff as well :P20:23
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javispedrothanks!20:23
SpeedEvil_joggler url?20:23
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javispedroSpeedEvil: a useful one is http://hackthejoggler.blogspot.com/2009/06/what-is-this-hack-joggler-stuff.html20:24
Stskeepsjavispedro: http://pastebin.com/7gziERzK20:24
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Stskeepsjavispedro: http://pastebin.com/9SsRrVRs as well20:25
javispedroaha, the builtin flash is connected through a sdhci pci card20:26
Stskeepsmmc20:26
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MohammadAGhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/multitasking-comes-to-iphone-os-4-0/ 4 generations to get it right...20:27
PhonicUKgah the scripts don't work20:27
PhonicUKsyntax errors :\20:27
Triztthats iphone 4G?20:27
javispedroMohammadAG: looks like they didn't20:28
Stskeepsjavispedro: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/Joggler20:28
bergiejavispedro: yeah, seems only some certain services are working while your app is "in the background"20:28
javispedrobergie: PalmOS-style multitasking :(20:29
MohammadAGjavispedro, at least the poor guys got it20:29
javispedro*PalmOS520:29
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javispedro"We're releasing a framework called accelerate -- for hardware accelerated math functions." only jobs could advertise stuff like that. genius.20:31
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javispedroStskeeps: thanks! lack of rtc is disturbing me a bit now20:34
MohammadAGjavispedro, well the iPad was magical20:34
RST38hjavispedro: What? Jobs invented math?20:35
Stskeepsjavispedro: who cares with ntpdate..20:35
Stskeeps:P20:35
javispedroI had one plausible use for it that assumed rtc :(20:35
javispedrobut it was geeky anyway20:35
javispedro;)20:35
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ptl_demands_PR12I assume that to specify whether it was floating-point math or integer math would be too nerdy20:36
javispedromath!20:36
javispedrojust math.20:36
javispedroenough to throw confusion into all the expected audience20:36
javispedroeven better, to throw the entire audience into confusion :)20:36
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RST38hjavispedro: Has something happened with the apple cult lately? I managed to remove all apple news from gizmodo/engadget feeds, so I am not sure what you are talking about20:38
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javispedroRST38h: jobs invented multitasking, hw accelerated math, skype, and is at this moment inventing tomtom20:39
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RST38hjavispedro: Is he inventing tomtom for free or for a fee?20:40
javispedrothe latter, of course.20:40
andrewfblackiPhone os 4.0 is going to have Custom Wallpapers,  Welcome to the 1990s everyone!!20:40
RST38hAh20:40
javispedro^^ and now he's inventing wallpapers20:41
RST38handrewfblack <-- obviously not in the loop20:41
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andrewfblackjavispedro: he also invented Multitasting today20:41
javispedroand catorise, he also invented folders in the launcher20:41
MohammadAGjavispedro, when he announced the iPad, he said you can change your wallpaper20:41
RST38hthose in the loop know very well that there weren't any wallpapers before iPhone OS 4.020:41
MohammadAGI thought the iPhone could do that...20:41
javispedroMohammadAG: it couldn't. watch the the ministry of truth in action.20:41
andrewfblackMohammadAG: just on the lock screen no where else before today20:41
FIQ...20:42
FIQserious?20:42
furunk3lpls, someone help. i have this really strange problem with my n900 for the third time now. the touchscreen seems to hang. its not recognzing any input.20:42
andrewfblackHe also invented something called a Folder I don't know what it is but it sounds cool20:42
FIQeven the monochrome phones was able to do that...20:43
lcukfurunk3l, what apps are you running20:43
javispedroah, jobs just invented App Store Third-Party Mail Attachment Viewers!20:43
lcukdo you get click noises from it when you press20:43
furunk3llcuk, at the time the touchscreen is haning or in general?20:43
furunk3l*hanging/not responding20:43
lcukyour screen is not responding, what can you see20:43
lcukwhat happens when you touch it20:43
RST38hjavispedro: has he invented the instant messaging already or is it coming?20:44
lcukwhat did you do to break it20:44
javispedroRST38h: what's this instant thing you're talking about20:44
andrewfblackjust noticed steve can't do math they sold 450K ipads but the app Ibook has been downloaded 600k times how is that possible?20:44
javispedro;)20:44
RST38hjavispedro: you will know when jobs announces it20:44
furunk3llcuk: when i swipe to swipe through the desktops it seems to work, but then it switches back to the desktop i was.20:44
javispedroit doesn't exist! never exited!20:44
lcukandrewfblack, easily enough20:44
andrewfblackRST38h: he invented MMS last year20:44
furunk3lkinetic scrolling is not wokring20:44
furunk3land when i receive a call, i cannot take it20:44
RST38handrewfblack: most hyperactive fans downloaded it twice?20:45
lcukfurunk3l, ok, so its not a hardware problem in that its not working - its just funky and not working right20:45
furunk3li press  the touchscreen, and it hangs.20:45
andrewfblacklcuk: only way would be for 250k people to download twice20:45
furunk3llcuk, exactly20:45
javispedrofurunk3l: something funky indeed :P did you install anything recently?20:45
furunk3lnohing20:45
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furunk3li can fix it with a complete reinstall20:45
javispedrofurunk3l: put a lot of files in an sd card or the builtin memory?20:45
furunk3land after some time its back20:45
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furunk3ljavispedro, yes.20:46
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furunk3lloads of music20:46
javispedrofurunk3l: then leave it alone for a few hours and it might revive20:46
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furunk3lits not the trackerd20:46
lcukfurunk3l, can you click to open apps20:46
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lcukor console via ssh20:46
furunk3llcuk, no.20:46
javispedroaha, Free Winnie the Pooh eBook with every iPad. Their target market is crystal clear now.20:46
lcukno because ssh isnt installed or no because ssh isnt working20:47
furunk3lwhen i click, it somethimes gets recognized as a long press20:47
furunk3land opens the contextmenu20:47
SpeedEvil_javispedro: the ipad doesn't need additional poo.20:47
andrewfblackWTF no free Winnie the Pooh on N900 thats a Show Stopper for me20:47
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lcukas long as theres a free winnie the pooh theme :p20:48
andrewfblackbtw I wan to thank everyone who changed their useragent on Nokia Devices ot iphone for their websites you helped apple say this.. "iPhone has a 64% mobile browser use share"20:49
furunk3lssh is not istalled20:49
andrewfblacklcuk: don't make me go make a winnie the pooh theme for N90020:49
lcukfurunk3l, what happens if you reboot20:49
andrewfblacklcuk: you know I will do it a made a Hello kitty one for Stskeeps20:49
lcukandrewfblack, bet you cant20:49
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furunk3llcuk, when i reboot immediatly i cannot enter the pin for my simcard.20:50
andrewfblackPooh theme will be out this weekend20:50
* javispedro find the browser screenshot with a huge message box "Do you want to accept invitation to play Winnie the Pooh the Game with random boring contact that is interrupting you constantly while trying to, well, BROWSE the WWW?" hilarious.20:50
furunk3li press randomly on the screen and after some time its working20:50
lcukfurunk3l, if you turn off the phone remove battery and let it cooldown for 10mins20:50
lcukplug in and test again20:50
furunk3lokay20:50
lcuklets see if its potentially something like that20:50
lcukespecially if immediate reboot fails20:51
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kamuimy penis is affectionally errect20:51
kamuithat was inappropriate, and I apologize20:51
lcukkamui, i know you are as excited as the rest of us for pr1.2 but you are right,keep it in your pants20:52
Stskeepsto winnie the pooh? oh dear20:52
andrewfblackI manged to get Dropbox Sync on my N900, using N900, Desktop Computer, Dyndns, ipcheck script, application to sync Dropbox Folder to FTP server, Dropbear running on N900.  Now why I would I want an iphone.  If the application is made for hte iphone you are just out of luck20:52
furunk3lis there word for the pr 1.2 release?20:53
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andrewfblackStskeeps: You know you want the winnie the pooh theme20:53
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javispedrofurunk3l: not really.20:53
Stskeepsandrewfblack: i can guess some people that do20:53
andrewfblackStskeeps: I really did make that Hello Kitty theme I kept saying I would but just never released it20:53
* andrewfblack is giving up on a N900 LCARS theme not looking right20:54
lcuki see valid reasoning to enforce OMG Ponies! theme upon anyone with "demands_PR12" in their irc nickname20:54
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andrewfblackI'm almost to the point of getting in hte the whole lets go crasy on TMO thing.  I figure if I post that I have an early release of PR1.2 and do some fake screenshots people will beleave me20:55
MohammadAGlol I was just gonna see if noobmonk3y was online20:55
* noobmonk3y huffs n puffs20:56
noobmonk3y7 hours driving, my legs are achingggggggggg20:56
lcukflintstones car?20:56
noobmonk3y;) not far off20:56
MohammadAGLOL20:56
* MohammadAG gives noobmonk3y the massager maemo app20:56
noobmonk3yw000000000p20:56
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javispedroandrewfblack: you doubt it?20:56
noobmonk3ynice relaxing evening with the missus in a bit - so only on for 30 mins :D20:57
javispedroandrewfblack: they will. someone even nearly believed the "overclocked to a gazillion ghz" shot20:57
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andrewfblackjavispedro: Well I figure I have a little creditillity in the community to string people along for a while20:57
* MohammadAG reminds noobmonk3y that a PM window exists20:57
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noobmonk3ytrust lcuk to post a sensible reply in my oh so sensible healthcheck thread ;)20:58
lcuksomeone had to :p20:59
noobmonk3ylol good point ;)20:59
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* andrewfblack thinks about his if you can't beat them join them post he should do on tmo20:59
noobmonk3ythought i did a good job at fending of the "Kill my device " requests20:59
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jacekowskiX-Fade: are you there?21:00
lcukjacekowski, did you put the source to your package anywhere yet21:00
javispedroand now jobs just invented ... flash.21:01
javispedrobut it's not flash.21:01
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pupnikwhat then21:02
javispedrohtml5 advertising!21:03
andrewfblackjavispedro: looks like be invited Advertising aswell21:03
* andrewfblack can't talk to much junk about Apple he still steals his old iphone back from while for some mobile gaming every now and then21:05
GAN900iPad is offtopic. :P21:05
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andrewfblackGAN900: So is everything on t.m.o :)21:06
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jacekowskilcuk: it's just chromium from google21:06
javispedroGAN900: doesn't matter. it will be base for comparisons for the next year.21:06
jacekowskilcuk: with some mods to make it compile21:06
lcukso jacekowski, its open source - and you put it in the closed source section of m.o21:06
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lcukso now anyone who might want to download and tinker cannot21:07
lcukthat has bad mojo21:07
jacekowskii can move it to free21:07
FIQhm21:07
FIQno pr1.2...21:07
jacekowskibut i would have to build proper source package21:07
lcukindeed you can21:07
FIQwhat is happening actually?21:07
jacekowskiand hack it a lot to build21:07
lcukindeed you would21:07
lcukbut being in non-free is not correct21:08
lcukis worse21:08
FIQthe 1.1.1 was released over 2 months ago21:08
lcukis against license21:08
jacekowskinon-free is for people too lazy to build proper package21:08
lcuknon-free is for non-free softawre21:08
lcukfree software should not be there21:08
lcuklazyness is not a factor in this21:08
jacekowskithere is some free software in non-free section21:09
lcukplease make a list if that is the case (with chromium at the top for now) and they can all be cleaned up then.21:10
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jacekowskiwell it's BSD Licensed21:11
mgedminwait, what? chromium for n900?21:11
jacekowskiso theoreticely i can relicense it to jacekowski license21:11
jacekowskiand put it into non-free21:12
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andrewfblackjacekowski: I like the sound of that I should relicense all my themes to jacekowski License21:12
jacekowskimgedmin: yes21:13
jacekowskimgedmin: it's in http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/c/chromium/21:14
jacekowskimgedmin: but it's not in Packages21:14
jacekowskimgedmin: for some reason21:14
jacekowskiand i don't know what i've done wrong21:14
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MohammadAGjacekowski, looks like packages is down21:16
MohammadAGThe requested URL /packages/view/ could not be found on this server.21:17
lcukjacekowski, you have removed the bsd attributation from it - effectively wiping out its history21:17
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RST38hhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzbQjd_Oo4Q&feature=player_embedded21:17
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javispedroah, they're battling over for the single ipad they brought in for a demo in public tv21:21
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lcukjacekowski, if you had pushed the package and source up, perhaps others could assist you better21:24
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RST38hjavispedro: obnoxious21:25
Gadgetoid_mbpApple just invented multitasking21:26
* javispedro bangs head repeteadly21:26
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Gadgetoid_mbpNext: The wheel21:26
* MohammadAG wonders21:26
MohammadAGif a package source was edited21:26
* ioeee salud o/21:26
MohammadAGcan I upload the package built into extras-devel non-free?21:27
MohammadAGeven if it's free?21:27
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lcukMohammadAG, you could until someone who cares speaks up21:28
lcuknormally it would be the proper maintainer21:28
lcukif you are replacing their package21:28
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MohammadAGlcuk, even if the package was never meant for maemo?21:29
jacekowskiwell, it's on jacekowski license now21:29
jacekowskiand jacekowski license says21:29
jacekowski- i don't care21:29
MohammadAGs/meant/made/21:29
infobotMohammadAG meant: lcuk, even if the package was never made for maemo?21:29
jacekowski- code will be released when i'll have some time421:29
* MohammadAG uses jacekowski's license and uploads to extras-devel21:29
lcukin that case jacekowski you best get looking at the guidelines for trademark stuff for third party implementors21:30
lcukhttp://code.google.com/chromium/terms.html21:30
jacekowskii'm not sure if i can release build anyways21:30
javispedrothe jacekowski license is incompatible with the bsd either way, my legal team says21:31
lcukMohammadAG, well thats pretty much what jacekowski just did21:31
jacekowskijavispedro: point 1 of jacekowski license21:32
SpeedEviljacekowski licence is like GPL, but you also have the right to request the code written in hot-sauce?21:32
lcukjacekowski, i have never spoken in this tone with anyone about open source before because ive not seen people do this kind of thing.  many folks like chromium and would actively help you bring it to maemo21:32
lcukbut thats fro man open community thing21:32
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SpeedEvilsee the dozens of ripoffs of mplayer and ffmpeg code into non GPL stuff21:33
* MohammadAG switches back to getting the app to compile21:33
MohammadAGI hate non-free21:33
SpeedEvilnot to mention busybox/linux into every third router21:33
lcukthe package as it stands should not be in non-free - i know it was easier- but if you built the package yourself, we can most likely help the autobuilder to create it too21:33
jacekowskiif you want i can post my ~/chrom/chromium... whatever21:33
lcukSpeedEvil, speaking of ffmpeg - theres a binary inside jacekowski's package21:33
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lcukwhich is lgpl21:34
jacekowskisource of ffdshow is publicly avaliable21:34
javispedrothe jacekowski license is incompatible with the gpl, my legal team also says >:)21:34
MohammadAGjacekowski, is chromium in the repos (app manager)?21:35
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MohammadAGok, it's in the repos, is it in app manager?21:35
bigbrovarHi guys I am having problem getting my N900 contacts synced with google contacts. If I delete my contacts on the n900 google contacts syncs fine (using mail for exchange) but if I were to edit the synced contacts (by merging dups enteries) I am unable to sync the result with google and I get server not responding error.21:35
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javispedrojacekowski: now seriously, if you can, you should really consider sending it to free. it will be better for you in the end and for us too (easier to reproduce). if you can't for some reason make it a sane source package, do not hesistate to post your doubts21:38
jacekowskiseriously21:38
jacekowskii'll send it21:38
javispedrook :)21:38
jacekowskibut i have to diff it 1st to orignal source21:38
RaafatHi all, I have submitted a proposal for Pocket Jeeves project in GSOC, can you please have a look on it and give me your feedback(s) ? thanks http://issuu.com/gsoc/docs/gsoc_proposal121:39
jacekowskiand make it nice21:39
javispedrothe nice part isn't needed until version2 :)21:39
javispedroas someone told me when I was noob around here, "if it compiles and runs, ship it!" is the maemo way :)21:39
lcukthe nice part is bringing another open source giant to the platform, the code can be as messy and wiggly as it needs to be21:40
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lcukactually javispedro pr1.2 proves that is not the case :)21:40
jacekowskiat the moment only thing i can post is my huuuuuuge ~/chrom folder21:40
jacekowskithat includes everything21:40
lcukgit diff21:40
jacekowskiand it would take day to send on my 512k upload21:41
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* javispedro looks at the time, tries to remove joggler stuff from his mind and tries to go back to work21:41
Zahrawhere is the mamo boot configs? I don't see anything on my /boot directiory21:41
jacekowskithat's a problem - it's not on git21:41
lcukok, reextract the tar.gz and diff against that21:41
jacekowskii would end up with shitloads of binary files21:42
jacekowskiin diff21:42
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SpeedEvil_Raafat: can't read on n900.21:42
jacekowskithere is no rush21:42
jacekowskii spent 2 days builing it21:42
lcukjacekowski, then why rush to get it in repository21:42
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jacekowskii'm not rushing it21:43
jacekowskii just want to know why it's not there21:43
SpeedEvil_Zahra: /etc21:43
jacekowskilet me just ssh to work21:44
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javispedroApple already breaking the dream21:46
javispedrothey won't bring the "full" 4.0 to older devices21:47
ZahraSpeedEvil_: & which file in /etc have boot information?21:47
SpeedEvil_I bought apple today.21:47
javispedro(i'm sure someone in Nokia is making a sound of relief)21:47
SpeedEvil_Zahra: wht do you mean boot info?21:47
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SpeedEvil_(well, apples)21:47
jacekowskii've got an idea21:47
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jacekowskiimport orginal source into svn repository21:47
jacekowskiand then import that huge file21:48
PhonicUKhey all, is the cpp-4.2 package just the compiler?21:48
jacekowskiand then i can possibly diff it21:48
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PhonicUKand am i ok to remove it21:48
RST38h"...and then Apple is going to send all the iPhone users a special knife for cutting the usb connector hole in their iPhones."21:48
jacekowskihuge folder *21:48
ZahraSpeedEvil_: boot configs, for example grub.conf in linux systems, I really don't know what's N900 bootloader21:48
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SpeedEvil_RST38h: I hear this knife is made by bledtek.21:48
RST38hiKnife21:49
SpeedEvil_Zahra: nolo? I don't think it's open, or has files like that.21:49
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dmj726_n900so when is the i****? getting expose?21:50
RaafatSpeedEvil_ : do you prefer a site to upload it ?21:50
shvedskyI request again (and for the last time, so sorry that I'm bugging you).21:50
shvedskyWill there be any reply to http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=600213&postcount=9121:50
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ZahraSpeedEvil_: ok, btw tnx21:50
SpeedEvil_Raafat: I simply mean I can't read it at the moment due to flash or ...21:50
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RaafatSpeedEvil_: I understand you, can I copy paste it in the private ?21:51
SpeedEvil_sure21:52
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* javispedro loling at "Around 1996, when I had AOL users complaining that the articles on my website were "cut off at the bottom of the screen", and I had to explain scrollbars to them, I should have found another career, preferably one that involved frequent use of explosives and heavy earthmoving equipment." 21:52
* RST38h vividly remembers 199621:53
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RST38hWith alt.tasteless discussing various methods of torturing frogs, naturally switching to torturing the French, ending up torturing AOLers21:54
RST38hUnlike French or frogs, nobody really felt like defending AOLers.21:54
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lcukRST38h, sounds not much different to now21:55
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* lcuk did not get internet at home until 200021:55
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RST38hlcuk: well, lemmings became smarter but more annoying since then21:56
Veggenlcuk: not dealiing with end users also rules.21:56
RST38hsmarter being a relative term of course21:56
lcukVeggen, ive dealt with end users since late 90s21:56
VeggenI have 1.5 million end users, but have only ever talked with one *once*, and that was  mistake, I shouldn't have.21:57
lcukin an industry built up of 90yo dears who know more about fabrics and sewing than computers21:57
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* javispedro feels a urge to play lemmings21:57
lcukand also small companies of people in first time businesses21:57
lcuklol javispedro21:57
toggles_wi see the iphone made it to 1993, finally have multitasking, just like win3.1 when it was release in 9321:58
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jacekowskitoggles_w: official software21:59
lcukactually toggles_w its not multitasking as such, just the os has a few predefined threads that apps can hook into21:59
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toggles_wneither was 3.1, cooperative ;-)21:59
lcuktry multitasking something they dont want you to do!21:59
jacekowskitoggles_w: with jailbreak you can have multitasking21:59
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lcukbut anyway22:00
lcukim off, bbl maemo \o22:00
toggles_wcya lcuk22:00
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dmj726_n900I don't think people have any trouble with n900 task switching.22:01
* ioeee resaluda o/22:02
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SpeedEvildmj726_n900: I do22:04
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dmj726_n900More on my gsoc proposal:  http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4854822:04
SpeedEvildmj726_n900: it's annoyingly slow22:04
SpeedEvildmj726_n900: there is no way to do alt-tab22:04
dmj726_n900overclock ;)22:04
* SpeedEvil really goes to sleep.22:04
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Veggensomething feels not right when I have to jailbreak an OS to get it to do as I want.22:04
dmj726_n900alt tab would be nice actually.22:04
dmj726_n900Veggen: yeah...many here agree with that.22:05
Veggen<---isn't going to buy an iPhone, but I do know how slick it looks.22:05
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MohammadAGI'd rather go back to symbian than buy an iPhone22:05
FIQwell22:06
FIQjailbreak is same idea as rooting (symbian)22:06
ptl_demands_PR12I'd rather not buy and iPhone than buy an iPhone22:06
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MohammadAGexcept it's easier on symbian22:06
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FIQbut well, it's easier to root a symbian device, and a symbian device has less limits unrooted22:07
* dmj726_n900 would accept a free iphone.22:07
dmj726_n900They can be sold for money.22:07
MohammadAGif I got a free iPhone I'd donate it22:07
* FIQ would as well - and sell it22:07
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FIQ:D22:07
MohammadAGand about 100 bucks because of the evil it carries22:07
MohammadAGok, 100 is a lot22:07
* MohammadAG takes back what he said22:07
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dmj726_n900since it's $100, and money is the root of all evil, the iphone's evil is over 9,00022:09
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dmj726_n900$100 = sqrt(iPhone.get_evil())22:11
b-man|laptophttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/jobs-if-you-see-a-stylus-or-a-task-manager-they-blew-it/       LOLOLOL22:12
RST38hHehe: http://www.alternet.org/rights/146273/ruling_ok%27s_tasering_pregnant_woman_three_times22:12
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b-man|laptopi think apple's ego has just entered astronomical levels xD22:13
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RST38hb-man: So, el Jobso is basically repeating Microsoft's mistake of never exiting apps?22:15
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SpeedEvilThis actually works - if you can enforce design.22:16
RST38hdoes not work22:16
RST38hyou always end up with memory getting full22:16
SpeedEvilFor example 'app must be able to start in x seconds from saved state'22:16
RST38hor alternatively you end up with apps exiting when they see fit, taking your work with them22:17
RST38hnaaah, thsis saved state stuff never worked and probably never will22:17
RST38halthough I guess they may have tried snapshotting the whole application, all the active memory pages, dumping them to disk for later unfreezing22:18
mgedminworked quite well on PalmOS, actually...22:18
b-man|laptopRST38h: you could say that xD22:18
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RST38hmgedmin: never worked neither on Symbian nor on WinMo22:18
b-man|laptopmgedmin: Palm OS had a _very_ small footprint22:18
mgedminfor values of "work" not including applications like a "web browser"22:18
RST38hWas particularly obnoxious on WInMo (Symbian did provide an app manager)22:19
SpeedEvilmgedmin: I want that.22:19
mgedmingiven the pain that is MicroB's back button I wonder how well that will work22:19
* RST38h guesses PalmOS is different, as it was never really an OS22:19
SpeedEvilmgedmin: For firefox - or whatever - to be able to snapshot each tab to non-volatile storage22:19
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dmj726_n900...that's called the session manager.22:20
Mecehey, does anyone know if SDL_GetModState() reacts to the fn key in N900?22:20
SpeedEvilwith _all_ the tab state in disk, not RAM22:20
SpeedEvildmj726_n900: not quite22:20
b-man|laptopRST38h: it was more of a microkernel with an application layer22:20
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dmj726_n900ah...you want everything.22:20
SpeedEvildmj726_n900: you navigate from a tab, it saves the tab to disk, and deletes the in-ram copy22:20
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SpeedEvildmj726_n900: it loads the - say - 5M of data back in .5s22:20
dmj726_n900ah...why would that be needed?22:22
SpeedEvildmj726_n900: the assumption is that there is not enough RAM for 20 tabs22:22
dmj726_n900Okay, I can't see needing that many on a mobile device.22:22
SpeedEvilI often have 6 microb windows open22:23
dmj726_n900though I could find myself wrong.22:23
dmj726_n900so do I.22:23
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TreibholzWTF? everything is vertical now!22:24
furunk3llcuk, that issue with the touchscreen just happened again. i removed the battery and i will wait for 10 minutes.22:27
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lcukfurunk3l, did it get better before on its own?22:29
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furunk3lyes, after some time22:29
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furunk3li sometimes just rapidly touch the screen. and it was fixed.22:30
lcukby leaving the device on, or turned off as i suggested22:30
furunk3li just turned it off as you suggested22:30
furunk3lstill waiting for the 10 minutes to pass ;)22:30
lcukyeah but you threw more spanner in works by saying it cured itself eventually on its own22:30
lcukor with brute force ;)22:30
furunk3lit always did after some time22:31
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furunk3lstrange thing is, that a reboot did not fix it.22:31
Treibholzgreat, everything is vertical now. even my browser22:31
Treibholzbut how do I get back?22:31
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Treibholzwithout killing my uptime22:32
mgedminTreibholz, how did you go forward?22:32
Treibholzmgedmin: i just don't know....22:32
TreibholzI did something with the phone-app22:33
mgedmini.o.w. triggered some bug22:33
mgedmintry starting the phone app (again) and exiting it normally22:33
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Treibholzok, i got back with feedinf-it22:34
b-man|laptopTreibholz: going for an uptime record, eh? :)22:36
Treibholz2 days!22:36
Treibholzthat's the best I smartphone ever did here!22:36
b-man|laptopthe longest i've done is a week22:36
Treibholz(except a very old Blackberry)22:36
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dmj726_n900I generally can't get more than a couple weeks without accidentally draining the battery.22:37
b-man|laptopdmj726_n900: had mine on a charger obviously xD22:37
dmj726_n900(not a single charge for me obviously)22:38
DocScrutinizeryay, 18 days on N900. Then rebooted due to some stupid app update requiring it22:38
b-man|laptopdmj726_n900: idle?22:38
DocScrutinizer>300 days on 621022:38
TreibholzDocScrutinizer: a 6210 is a phone!22:38
dmj726_n900...no...meaning I was charging about twice daily.22:38
DocScrutinizeryep22:38
TreibholzDocScrutinizer: you can't compare apples and pears!22:39
b-man|laptopdmj726_n900: ah lol22:39
DocScrutinizersee? phones are better than smartphones ;-P22:39
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dmj726_n900my old phone had much better battery life...and a dead(ish?) microphone22:39
furunk3llcuk, works again. but the phone settings like date and time are reset.22:40
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lcukfurunk3l, earlier on, you said the problem remained after rebooting22:41
furunk3lyes22:41
lcukhow often do you encounter it, and is it immediately after rebooting22:41
lcukor just randomly at some point in the future will it occur22:41
TreibholzI just found out, that jingle works quite great between two n90022:41
konttorioh man. why did the hildon touchselector have to have different api than gtk treeview. <sigh>22:41
furunk3li encounter it currently once a day. mostly after the phone was some time in standby22:41
furunk3lit happens more often when i listen to mp3s22:41
lcukkonttori, historical reasons no doubt22:42
furunk3land when i reboot without taking the battery out, the error is still there after the reboot22:42
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lcukok furunk3l are you doing anything else with the phone - or notice when it doesnt occur22:42
lcukie, you say "once a day"22:43
lcukdoes it not happen some days - ie when you arent listening to music or something22:43
lcukdamn22:43
konttorilcuk: yeah, probably for the philosophical idea of keeping gtk and hildon separate (while I never saw even the point of having hildon as a separate API at all)22:43
lcukapt-get install new-lighter22:43
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lcukkonttori, when we finish our time machine, we will go back and right the wrongs in gtk :D22:44
furunk3llcuk, it currently happens when the phone was on standby for a long time22:44
lcukeiter that or just use qt from scratch :D22:44
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konttorilol, well, qt did it pretty right22:44
lcukin some respects it did yeah.  im tinkering with pyqt22:45
furunk3llike it takes some time to wake up the hildon stuff or the touchscreen.22:45
lcukand i want it faster22:45
lcukand using a better syntax ;)22:45
lcukpossibly like vb :D22:45
jacekowskiX-Fade: how that builder work?22:46
nze`what does the n900 support when it comes to synchronising calendars/tasks? server/protocol wise22:46
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jacekowskii mean, what if i need library from extras-devel22:48
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nzeis there only mail for exchange or syncevolution?22:49
lcukkonttori, so is the thing you are playing with ukmp2 ?22:49
lcukor just getting comfortable22:49
konttorilcuk: no, I would never make ukmp on gtk. But, I'm making a functional video player. So, this time, function over form.22:50
konttoriAnd then once I have function that I'm happy with, I'll resort to my usual form over function and start converting the app to qml/qtgraphicsview22:51
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konttoriI would really like to switch already to qml, but, I think I'll finish the current implementation first, then publish it, then switch to qml. I really love qml. I see no reason to use anything else but either vanilla qt or qml.22:53
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* konttori really isn't personally a big believer of the new s60 toolkit nor DUI toolkits. 22:54
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lcukkonttori, the toolkits will help some people22:55
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lcukbut you are right, native simple implementations which just work well are always prefered and are the bread and butter22:55
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lcukfor round to ordering laser cut stand today :) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4359322:56
lcukgot round even22:56
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silboenyone has a good idea for GSoC project?22:58
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KhertanHello !22:58
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KhertanI'm trying to compile some c code for my n900 ... but it s running kinda slow ... as i'm clearly not an expert of c and gcc ... does there is some flags to optimize things a bit ?23:00
MohammadAGIt depends on the CPU23:00
lcukKhertan, slow to compile, or slow to run?23:00
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MohammadAGlcuk, since he asked about gcc, I'm assume to compile23:01
lcukand theres some cheapish c flags, but it depends on whether your time is spent in your little loops or within a prebuild linked library23:01
lcukyeah MohammadAG with khertan im never sure, but "c code for my n900"23:01
lcukthe for makes it tough23:01
lcukand optimizing would slow down compilation ondevice23:02
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lcukfastest compilation is unoptimised23:02
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lcukmmm i wonder if that could be used to advantage for making test builds of qt c++ on device23:02
lcukor if c++ is just that much slower it wouldnt make a diff23:03
Khertanlcuk: slow to run23:04
lcukanyway, Khertan in my CFLAGS i use -O323:04
microlithc++ puts a bigger burden on the preprocessor if templates are used, no?23:04
lcukbut it doesnt help without knowing where slowness is23:04
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lcukmicrolith, it puts a bigger burdon on everything23:04
MohammadAGlcuk, lol I was wrong23:04
SpeedEvilsomeone needs to get distcc in extras-devel.23:04
lcukits just much slower to build than flat c code23:04
SpeedEvilTo enable compiling when plugged into wall.23:04
SpeedEvilcloud of n900s.23:04
Khertanyep ... the problem is that the n900 is border line23:05
lcukSpeedEvil, i keep having a flash of something :)23:05
Khertana bit too slow :)23:05
lcukand it involves n810 too23:05
lcukits fast enough for c building i think23:05
SpeedEvillcuk: as long as it doesn't involve adobe.23:05
lcuklol SpeedEvil of course23:05
Khertanlcuk: for building yep ... for running complex things less23:05
lcukbut i need to have my code running immediate on all waiting devices as soon as ive started build23:06
lcukso it has to be done on all machines23:06
lcukSpeedEvil, i keep wanting to run a micro web server with simplified source code feed - when i save project each device stops what its doing, downloads, compiles, runs and gets back to point it was at23:07
SpeedEvil:)23:07
SpeedEviltcc23:07
* SpeedEvil sighs.23:07
lcukmost likely23:07
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SpeedEvilSo many projects.23:07
SpeedEvilI want to do a nice web proxy to reduce bandwidth.23:07
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lcukSpeedEvil, i was sat building liqbase routinely on 810 for ages with this in mind23:08
lcukweb proxy doesnt interest me much because i dont use net often23:08
lcukbut around local zone23:09
* Khertan is now trying to build opensonic for Maemo23:09
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|Ris it a known bug that with the browser in full screen if you let the device lock itself after the system delay you can't see the pin pad when it shows up, just the title?23:10
lcukKhertan, oooo23:11
Khertan?23:11
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Khertanhum ... build was fast ...23:11
Khertanbut s it s a bit too slow23:11
Khertanopensource next game :)23:12
lcukspeak with the gamers around23:12
Khertani m browsing playdeb.net :)23:12
* SpeedEvil plays lots of 'blocks'.23:12
lcukjavis and rst usually have good implementation ideas23:13
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jonaskoe1kerHi all.  I'm trying to add ~ to my osso-xterm bottom bar, as per http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35442 -- I fail; why?  I'm saying gconftool-2 -t list --list-type string -s /apps/osso-xterm/keys "[bar,~,Tab,Escape,Page_Up,Page_Down]" and $thesame/key_labels "[|,~,Tab,Esc,PgUp,PgDn]".  When I press the ~ button, nothing happens.  What gives?23:29
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DocScrutinizerprobably it's tilde, not ~. Also it even might be nodeadkey-tilde or sth like that23:32
grishnavAnyone here use OpenVPN on their N900?23:32
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peetahgrishnav: I do23:34
jonaskoe1kerDocScrutinizer: a similar amount of nothing happens for "tilde" and "nodeadkey-tilde"23:34
jonaskoe1kerDocScrutinizer: where did you get the nodeadkey-tilde name from?23:34
jonaskoe1kerDocScrutinizer: some X keysym list?  A header file?  A GNOME/osso/X/... header file?23:35
grishnavpeetah: Have you tried to make it run on startup with any luck?23:35
DocScrutinizerI'm not at all sure about the correct name. Just wild guessing led me to the assumption it's one of the chars that aren't represented by themselves but rather by their name23:35
peetahI have no use for it on startup, but you have to create a script in /etc/event.d/23:36
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jonaskoe1kerDocScrutinizer: sure, that seems reasonable; what I'm most puzzled by: where did you grab the "nodeadkey-" part from?23:36
DocScrutinizermere memory23:36
jonaskoe1kerah23:36
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peetahhave a look at /etc/event.d/ssh to have a template23:37
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peetahsorry it's /etc/event.d/sshd23:37
DocScrutinizerjonaskoe1ker: possibly I'm talking complete BS. Just an idea of the second, no backup by any hard facts or knowledge23:38
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jonaskoe1kerDocScrutinizer: ah okay.  Well, thanks for offering it :)23:38
peetahbasically, you remove what is between the pre-start script and end script23:38
jacekowskilcuk: and besides,23:38
peetahand replace what comes after exec by /etc/init.d/openvpn start23:38
jacekowskilcuk: i don't believe in community23:38
jacekowskilcuk: most community projects fail without corporate support23:39
peetahbe sure to check the /etc/default/openvpn to be sure that it connects to the desired vpn23:39
jonaskoe1kerDocScrutinizer: gaaaah, I found it: asciitilde ^_^23:39
grishnavpeetah: I don't see an /etc/event.d/sshd, just rc* scripts23:40
DocScrutinizerheh, so I've not been that wrong23:40
jonaskoe1kerDocScrutinizer: indeed you have not :)23:40
grishnavpeetah: ah wait, wrong machine... damn screens23:40
grishnavpeetah: ok, thanks23:40
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SpeedEvilIs there a way to strace the i2c bus? Is there a generic i2c-linux way?23:41
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: i think there is module that dumps i2c traffic to dmesg23:41
peetahgrishnav: np23:41
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: there's I2Ctools23:43
SpeedEvilhmm23:43
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: and there's strace ;-P23:43
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: yes. I know - not quite what I was aiming at.23:43
dmj726_n900http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGOZYGM5sOs23:44
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: honestly I have no clue. I'd guess all I2C is via a generic kernel driver. You might implement some debugging to that one23:44
dmj726_n900page reader concept23:44
SpeedEvilk23:45
KhertanYouhou ! GnuGo Compiled23:45
Khertannow rest the UI23:45
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SpeedEvildmj726_n900: neat23:47
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I have little energy to do creative stuff - more digging crap in garden today.23:48
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Khertanhttp://pastebin.com/wWvYzNxx <<< ouch a segfault on a compile23:48
Khertanhuhu23:48
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dmj726_n900Do you think the video would be good in the proposal?23:49
DocScrutinizerKhertan: heh, compiler segfaults always are BIG fun23:49
KhertanDocScrutinizer: yep ... and ... this on something that are coming from a Armel debian package23:50
SpeedEvildmj726_n900: link it - sure23:50
Khertandirectly compiled on scratchbox23:50
DocScrutinizerKhertan: I reverted to things like redirecting compiler log to printer when I encountered such threat23:50
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dmj726_n900okay, wasn't sure the video would help or not.23:51
SpeedEvildmj726_n900: It shoud of course also have a buisness card mode23:51
dmj726_n900business card mode?23:51
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dmj726_n900you mean to recognize business cards and add them to contacts.23:51
SpeedEvilto OCR them23:51
SpeedEvilthat sort of thing, yes23:51
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Khertanraaahahaha why open sonic is so slow on my N900 !!!23:54
jacekowskihow to remove something from non-free and resubmit is as free?23:55
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Khertanjacekowski: send a email to maemo dev mailing list23:55
Khertanbe prepare to be blame23:56
Khertanand wait at list one month23:56
MohammadAGX-Fade, ping23:56
PhonicUKHas anyone successfully managed to use their PS3 controller with an N900 using sixaxis-support and sixpair?23:56
Khertanat lesat23:56
Khertanat least23:56
MohammadAGPhonicUK, here23:56
PhonicUKim having a spot of trouble, i've used sixpair to set it to use my N900s bluetooth address23:56
PhonicUKand ive got the sixaxis-support on my N900 with bluetooth on23:57
PhonicUKbut i press the PS button on the controller and nothing happens23:57
jacekowskiKhertan: any simpler way?23:57
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MohammadAGPhonicUK, do you have HID enabled?23:57
Khertanjacekowski: pray23:57
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PhonicUKon the N900?23:57
MohammadAGyep23:57
PhonicUKprobably not, how do i do that?23:57
MohammadAGif yes, disable it23:57
MohammadAGguess not then23:58
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: just increment the version number and check in to free under the 'new' name?23:58
PhonicUKhow can i check>23:58
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MohammadAGPhonicUK, it's off by default, it should stay that way23:58
PhonicUKok23:58
KhertanDocScrutinizer: yep but it seems to cause problems on the maemo.org/packages/ interface23:58
Khertan:)23:58
MohammadAGPhonicUK, cat /etc/bluetooth/main.conf23:59
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MohammadAGDisablePlugins = network,input,hal23:59

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