IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-03-28

luke-jr	jacekowski: also, N800 and N810 have different BME binaries. I'm not 100% certain I noted the differences properly.	00:00
Kurppa_	I see. Is that on a N900?	00:00
jonaskoe1ker	Kurppa_: ... but I've written her u[number]@chat.facebook.com thing onto her entry	00:00
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: apparently this has already been reported and will be fixed in 1.2	00:00
jonaskoe1ker	Kurppa_: yep	00:00
luke-jr	"fixed in N920"	00:00
DocScrutinizer	lol	00:01
jonaskoe1ker	:)	00:01
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: you found a dup-ticket after crating yours? tztztzz	00:01
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: number?	00:02
Kurppa_	jonaskoe1ker: alright. Then I don't know what's going on. It sounds like the facebook jabber account is not signed in, but if you can see the status for some people and not others, I'm baffled..	00:02
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jonaskoe1ker	Kurppa_: you mean _I_ have to be logged on (with either jabber/facebook) to see statuses? Yeah, sure, I know that. I am	00:02
Kurppa_	Yup.	00:03
jacekowski	and they have to give you authorisation	00:03
jacekowski	for you to see their statuses	00:03
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jacekowski	and as far as i know there is no way of requesting authorisation on n900	00:04
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jonaskoe1ker	huh?	00:05
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7060 mine was already marked as a duplicate just now	00:05
povbot	Bug 7060: Sometimes photos are very green	00:05
DocScrutinizer	already there	00:05
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: I DID search for a bug before posting mine, but searching for "green" or "dark" didn't do it ^^	00:05
jonaskoe1ker	jacekowski: I see _some_ online-nesses, and I haven't requested anything on my n900, except facebook friendship in the web browser	00:05
jacekowski	maybe it's treated in a same way	00:06
Kurppa_	jonaskoe1ker: sounds like some weird bug. Sorry I couldn't help.	00:06
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Kurppa_	Or a feature I'm not familiar with..	00:07
jonaskoe1ker	I think Hermes is the (or at least _a_) culprit---the address book tends to get a lot of dupes when I run it	00:08
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jonaskoe1ker	I notice (reading the source) that is uses the evolution address book. Is osso-abook something distinct from that? How do the two connect?	00:09
Kurppa_	Yup. You need to merge those dupes yourself.	00:09
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Stskeeps	ah, lovely maemo once in a while	00:09
LiraNuna	will this help debugging why SmartReflex is crashing? https://gforge.ti.com/gf/project/omapkernel/wiki/?pagename=Power+Management	00:09
Stskeeps	SDK provides make 3.80. gcc requires make (>= 3.81)	00:10
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Kurppa_	Night folks.	00:11
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ptl	pata pata pata pon.	00:12
DocScrutinizer	LiraNuna: huh? SmartReflex(R) is crashing? o.O Pointer please	00:13
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LiraNuna	DocScrutinizer, well, that's what bug reports are sating	00:14
LiraNuna	saying*	00:14
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LiraNuna	I only enabled it yesterday	00:14
LiraNuna	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7633	00:14
povbot	Bug 7633: Enable SmartReflex on N900 by default	00:14
DocScrutinizer	you enabled what	00:14
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LiraNuna	I know my english is horrible, but I don't think I make no sense	00:15
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Tobarja	does anyone know how to get python-sqlalchemy?	00:19
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DocScrutinizer	hmmm	00:29
DocScrutinizer	LiraNuna: nah, you're perfectly reasonable	00:30
DocScrutinizer	leaves me puzzled. Nobody seems interested in what this tweaking of a sysnode actually does in hardware. I honestly doubt all the posters to this ticket acually know	00:32
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javispedro	"Sensors that adapt voltage dynamically in response to silicon processes and temperature variations. " (aka nothing)	00:33
DocScrutinizer	SmartReflex to all my knowledge is a rather complex multilayered technology, and it's not quite sure which parts of it are affected by that sysnode tweaking	00:34
javispedro	from a commercial point of view it encompasses most of the omap power saving related features	00:34
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: this part for sure isn't simply switched on/off via a sysnode	00:34
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: yep	00:35
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: docs said it can be switched via i2c	00:35
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DocScrutinizer	well, parts of it, as far as the PMU aka GAIA aka TL4030 is concerned	00:35
DocScrutinizer	my guess	00:35
DocScrutinizer	adaptive LDOs	00:36
DocScrutinizer	or somesuch	00:36
DocScrutinizer	the CPU bits for sure aren't switched via I2C, if at all	00:36
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DocScrutinizer	well the whole SmartReflex thing is TI IP and as far as it's software it's for sure closed source which Nokia can't disclose easily	00:37
DocScrutinizer	so... hard to debug	00:39
javispedro	... from reading at the driver behind that sysfs entry, seems to set some some memory mapped i/o regs	00:39
DocScrutinizer	and the batlife statements seem to me are mere handwaving	00:39
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javispedro	at 0x480C9000	00:40
javispedro	device "SR1"	00:40
DocScrutinizer	status register one? great	00:40
DocScrutinizer	well, we need the tech ref manual for the OMAP SoC	00:41
N900evil	I know there was hundreds of pages in the omap datasheets on smartreflex.	00:41
DocScrutinizer	no other way to understand a little tiny bit of that shit	00:41
N900evil	I haven't read it closely though	00:41
javispedro	sr_vdd1_autocomp -> sr1, sr_vdd2_autocomp -> sr2	00:42
N900evil	the 3300 page one?	00:42
nidO	anyone (ideally in the uk) got 1 minute and mind lending a hand?	00:42
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javispedro	was the 3430 leaked?	00:42
javispedro	s/3430/3430 manual	00:42
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javispedro	(cause I saw someone linking to another model's manual... like if it hadn't "confidential" written all over the place)	00:43
N900evil	google spruf98	00:43
DocScrutinizer	N900evil: yep, please :-D the whole 3k3 pages :-P	00:43
N900evil	nidO, ?	00:43
joga	hmm...too bad manage views doesn't allow reordering the desktops	00:43
javispedro	N900evil: "OMAP35xx"	00:43
joga	I seem to have put the two I use most separated from each other by another	00:44
joga	:)	00:44
nidO	N900evil - if you or anyone else could, go here, register, and vote: https://nationaltrust.uservoice.com/forums/45145-iphone-app-feedback-and-ideas-public-/suggestions/601935-app-for-other-platforms-too-?ref=title	00:44
N900evil	yes - it's not the individual part manual	00:44
nidO	or just vote, not sure if registration's actually needed	00:44
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N900evil	Also. TI has a forum.	00:45
nidO	noobmonk3y you're responsible and in the uk, you'd help right	00:46
N900evil	With actual engineers	00:46
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N900evil	nidO, what is this?	00:46
nidO	trying to get the national trust to recognise that crummy iphones arent the only smartphones that exist	00:46
joga	I installed screen and made a convenient shortcut for 'screen -RDU -s bash' if I want to have local persistence with terminal progs	00:48
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joga	apparently also needs bindkey -a -k fe stuff ^M in .screenrc for enter to work correctly in vim at least	00:51
DocScrutinizer	(smartreflex) anyway, to me it seems this whole tweaking won't cut it for mere standby time, and also it won't for massive datatransfer over wifi or even GSM. In the first case the CPU seems quite humble on its powerdemands, it the later cases there are other much more greedy consumers. It might have an impact on things like mp3-listening with screen off	00:52
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TomaszD	DocScrutinizer, > msg	00:54
* Arif_ sneezes		00:54
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N900evil	DocScrutinizer, or reading books at low brightness.	00:55
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Veggen	hmm. The n900 will know about DST automatically, no?	00:56
ShadowJK	yes	00:57
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Veggen	I use it as alarm, DST starts tonight, and I have a plane to catch tomorrow morning :)	00:57
* ShadowJK bangs head against desk trying to get something useful out of bme with gdb		00:57
Stskeeps	don't rely on only a n900 then	00:57
Veggen	nah.	00:57
ptl	Some countries don't have fixed dates for their DST, so the file containing it must be constantly updated. Is maemo prepared for this?	00:58
DocScrutinizer	N900evil: reading books is a run-to-idle situation. Nothing for SmartReflex to help much	00:58
ShadowJK	as well as an other distro	00:58
ShadowJK	whether nokia will push timezone updates or not is another question :-)	00:58
ptl	My country just switched from a variable DST dates regime to a fixed one	00:59
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ptl	ShadowJK: ubuntu is prepared for this, I think fedora too	00:59
Arif_	Lets just get rid of DST	00:59
Arif_	;(	00:59
ptl	it's constantly updating its timezones	00:59
N900evil	DocScrutinizer, IIRC it impadts having some functional units up, and some down.	00:59
ShadowJK	My guess would be that there'd be no timezone updates unless someone points out that it's wrong as is	00:59
ShadowJK	(if it's wrong)	01:00
range	Hmmm.	01:00
range	But tzdata gets constantly updated.	01:00
ptl	yes	01:00
range	When things change (the last ones were for the relatively short sighted chilenian updates after the earthquake)	01:00
range	They're not changing that package for fun :)	01:01
DocScrutinizer	N900evil: yep, but I doubt this functions will be disabled by that sysnode=0	01:01
DocScrutinizer	otherwise the whole device wouldn't get a >24h standby	01:02
ShadowJK	iirc @nokia.com said it's not guaranteed to change stuff except shortly after boot?	01:02
DocScrutinizer	in the ticket there was a comment WTTE	01:03
ShadowJK	anyway.. "I enabled smartreflex and the device crashed" is a bit of a "doctor doctor" type thing..	01:03
DocScrutinizer	yeah	01:05
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DocScrutinizer	you'd bet if it was safe, Nokia would have enabled it. And they damn sure should know a bit more about it than we do	01:06
DocScrutinizer	lease notice I usually don't state such pro-closed-wisdom statements	01:07
LiraNuna	oh don't get me wrong - I never said SmartReflex is responsible for crashes	01:08
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DocScrutinizer	but smartreflex is really fucking complicated and impossible to debug if you got not decent tools (hw tools) and a lot of devices to rip and mess with them, plus all the sources for SmartReflex sw drivers	01:08
DocScrutinizer	LiraNuna: seems it is, though	01:08
DocScrutinizer	but only nokia knows exactly why, and what to do to fix it	01:09
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DocScrutinizer	at least that's how I tend to see the situation. I'd love to stand corrected, and some smart guys work into that to a point where they tell Nokia how to fix it	01:10
ptl	maybe not even nokia, because the processor is OEM, isn't it?	01:10
ptl	hey buy it as a closed package	01:10
ptl	and use in their mobiles	01:10
ShadowJK	or they just thought "it crashes and it'll probably take months to debug this"	01:10
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ShadowJK	:P	01:11
DocScrutinizer	could be, yes	01:11
LiraNuna	DocScrutinizer, apparently the /sys/power triggers are given from TI's -omap kernel patches	01:11
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DocScrutinizer	yup, makes sense	01:11
LiraNuna	https://gforge.ti.com/gf/project/omapkernel/wiki/?pagename=Power+Management	01:11
ptl	hey, is it possible to get the frequencies of some Infrared Control using the regular N900 camera?	01:12
ptl	I've tested and it detects the infrared light.	01:12
ptl	I just don't know if it detects fast enough to get the frequencies...	01:13
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DocScrutinizer	LiraNuna: please don't think I'm rude, but I'm just fine with >48h of idle standby on GSM. And as soon as I use GPRS and do IRC or websurfing abroad, I know where the powerhogs are, and smartreflex won't fix that	01:14
DocScrutinizer	ptl: N900evil and me discussed that "barcode interference approach" some weeks ago. Seems it might work	01:15
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ptl	DocScrutinizer: where did you discuss that? tmo?	01:16
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DocScrutinizer	N900evil: i.e if you take a video, and place the IR TX diode directly to the camera lens, you might get all the info you need, from the resulting videofile	01:16
DocScrutinizer	here	01:16
N900evil	yes. especially if the shutter time is short	01:17
Arif_	doesn't IR equipment go way faster than 30FPS?	01:17
ptl	I dunno	01:18
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* Arif_ still hasn't gotten QtIrrecco to work ={		01:18
ptl	but it seems low frequency	01:18
DocScrutinizer	Arif_: the idea is you get a barcode like interference with the "rolling shutter" of the cam	01:18
ptl	neither did I	01:18
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nidO	qtirreco entirely depends on the remote that you choose	01:18
Arif_	I tried all three remotes in technotrend	01:19
nidO	the app itself works, but like 70-80% of the remotes are broken with it	01:19
Arif_	and neither work :D	01:19
ptl	Examination of LIRC datafiles shows the vast majority of remote handsets use 38 kHz.	01:19
nidO	btw	01:19
ptl	38 kHz? This would be impossible to detect	01:19
nidO	lend a hand and give a vote :D http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48497	01:20
Arif_	so like	01:20
Arif_	3800 FPS? :P	01:20
ptl	30 fps (30 Hz) is the maximum, isn't it?	01:20
ptl	more like 38000 FPS	01:20
ptl	actually	01:20
DocScrutinizer	ptl: you got a carrier of 32..42KHz, which is 100% on/off modulated by a 20..100baud 'serial' data stream	01:20
ptl	it would have to be double the frequency to detect the signal, 76000fps	01:20
ptl	hmm	01:20
DocScrutinizer	heh guys! you seen my comment above???	01:20
DocScrutinizer	the idea is you get a barcode like interference with the "rolling shutter" of the cam	01:21
ptl	DocScrutinizer: so you'd actually assume, say, 38 kHz and use whatever on/off (larger pattern) you detect there?	01:21
Arif_	you could try finding a camera that shoots 76000 pictures in one second too	01:22
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DocScrutinizer	ptl: depends on what you actually can get from such a video. standard video format is 16K lines/s	01:22
DocScrutinizer	each line may consist of marks and spaces	01:22
DocScrutinizer	two marks and spaces / line make a carrier of 32KHz	01:23
DocScrutinizer	get the picture?	01:23
DocScrutinizer	(muhaha what a pun)	01:23
ptl	not really... Or is there a way to concentrate the optical chip on such lines and making it refresh the same spot every time?	01:24
* Arif_ offers DocScrutinizer a job in anime translations		01:24
N900evil	probably, but there isn't a datasheet	01:25
DocScrutinizer	my english here is anime t10n enough ;-P	01:25
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Arif_	I'm really impressed how they made 250*20 minutes of puns for YuGiOh...:P	01:26
ptl	new stupid topic on tmo, how to get a girl into bed using N900	01:26
ptl	lol	01:26
DocScrutinizer	ptl: depending on the way the cam chip reads out its pixels, you might have a timeskew of 1s/fps/lines/dots-per-line	01:26
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Arif_	ptl, there was a topic about sharing pr0n made with the N900	01:27
Arif_	XD	01:27
ptl	(I'm "Patola" on tmo)	01:27
ptl	yeah	01:27
ptl	I did some posts there	01:27
ptl	in the end there was no shared pr0n	01:27
* Arif_ doubts a black brick can get a girl into bed		01:27
ptl	only some (dressed) boobs and some ass.	01:27
DocScrutinizer	if the IR TX iluminates the whole sensor same time, the readout of the sensor pixels is a timeline graph of the brightness	01:27
Arif_	ptl, aww...there's more to see outside...	01:28
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ptl	what about using the proximity sensor to detect the IR? :P It detects light, isn't it?	01:28
DocScrutinizer	(timeskew) 1/(50fps * 600dpl * 512lines_per_frame)	01:29
ptl	you'd have to have a very dark room, I think	01:29
ptl	(obs.: this was a joke)	01:29
DocScrutinizer	ptl: the prox chip has some logic aiui which probably does debouncing, maybe even filtering and one probe each 500ms, idling the remaining 499,9ms	01:30
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DocScrutinizer	ptl: nota bene the prox chip is an active chip which emits IR and detects the reflected light. It won't do that all the time	01:32
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DocScrutinizer	(all time) means it'll do a active/idle cycle with very short active time, otherwise power consimption is too high	01:33
ptl	i imagined something like that	01:33
DocScrutinizer	and from schematics it seems to me the chip does that autonomously, not under cpu control	01:34
ptl	ok, ok... next try, the lux detector?	01:34
DocScrutinizer	no way. has builtin logic and A/D converters	01:34
DocScrutinizer	slooooow	01:34
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DocScrutinizer	and before you ask, the camslider detector is probably the same as the prox	01:36
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ptl	I didn't even know the camslider detector was optical	01:37
ptl	I thought it was mechanical	01:37
ptl	ooops	01:37
ptl	never mind.	01:37
ptl	confused camslider with keyboard slide.	01:38
DocScrutinizer	but I did a video holding a IR-remote directly to the cam, and I got stillvideo pics showing a light/dark/light bar pattern representing the 75baud data at least	01:38
DocScrutinizer	zooming in might reveal more detail in the light bars indicating the carrier frequency	01:40
DocScrutinizer	if not, just use the raw data and try with your appliance, with different carriers until you succeed to control it	01:40
ptl	hmmm... that seems good. Is there any such program for other mobiles (iPhone, android etc.)?	01:40
DocScrutinizer	not that I've ever heard of	01:41
DocScrutinizer	heh, every once in a while I got a own genuine thought	01:41
ptl	which resolution did you use on your video?	01:42
ptl	(supposing you can choose. I haven't filmed with the N900 yet)	01:43
DocScrutinizer	lol, no idea. is there so much choice?	01:43
ptl	For better framerates, should I choose lower resolutions?	01:43
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DocScrutinizer	I'd think I haven't used any zoom-in	01:43
DocScrutinizer	which might be worth a try	01:43
adisbladis	Is there any app that acts as a launcher for external shellscripts? I have written a shellscript i want a launcher for on the desktop but i cant figure out how	01:44
adisbladis	N900 that is	01:44
DocScrutinizer	err, what? cmdline execution widget?	01:44
ptl	desktop commander execution	01:44
ptl	queen beecon widget	01:44
adisbladis	DocScrutinizer: Exactly	01:44
ptl	*desktop command execution	01:44
ptl	these two do the job	01:44
ptl	queen beecon widget is a fork of DCE with more features.	01:45
adisbladis	Thanks =)	01:45
ptl	yw	01:45
DocScrutinizer	methinks, it's called "Commadline Execution Widget" pkg. bah, nevermind	01:46
ptl	You might want to check the thread for queen beecon widget on tmo (talk.maemo.org)	01:46
ptl	desktop-cmd-exec - Results of custom commands in your desktop.	01:46
ptl	but I prefer queen beecon widget	01:46
ptl	:P	01:46
ptl	it's fancier	01:47
adisbladis	Hum.. That wasnt quite what i wanted..	01:47
ptl	I just wish beacon was written correctly.	01:47
ptl	then what do you want?	01:47
DocScrutinizer	ok, Desktop Command Execution Widget	01:47
adisbladis	I wanted something to create a button for launching applications	01:48
_llll_	fancier how?	01:48
adisbladis	Not displaying their output	01:48
DocScrutinizer	adisbladis: that's exactly Desktop Cmd Exec Widget. See option "execute cmd on click"	01:49
DocScrutinizer	adisbladis: if your cmd has no output, none will be displayed	01:50
lardman	night all	01:50
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DocScrutinizer	adisbladis: you can have arbitrary string for a label	01:50
DocScrutinizer	and you can configure hight/width	01:50
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DocScrutinizer	of the "button"	01:50
ptl	queen beecon too	01:51
ptl	you can also configure a nice icon for it	01:51
DocScrutinizer	aaaah, DCEW can't do the icon stuff	01:51
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adisbladis	Now i just got to complete my scrip to actually test it ;)	01:53
C-S-B-N900	hey DocScrutinizer	01:54
C-S-B-N900	how are you.	01:54
C-S-B-N900	i now have a very small scratch on the screen...	01:54
DocScrutinizer	pissed by my own laziness	01:54
C-S-B-N900	its bugging me.	01:54
DocScrutinizer	ouch	01:54
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ptl	there's a thread on tmo about spare parts for the n900	01:55
C-S-B-N900	its only visible in a certain light at a certain angle	01:55
ptl	or maybe if you get a screen protector it will make the scratch invisible	01:55
C-S-B-N900	but im anal.	01:55
DocScrutinizer	ptl: (invisible) I was going to propose that	01:56
C-S-B-N900	i think im going to get the lifetime out of this screen, then replace the screen after.	01:56
C-S-B-N900	i think replacing it will invite dust which is even worse.	01:57
DocScrutinizer	for the spare parts I'm really sad, as I missed my qwerty keyboard for one day. When I finally made it to get creditcard, it wasn't availöable any longer	01:57
C-S-B-N900	whats wrong with your kba.	01:57
C-S-B-N900	a=?	01:58
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DocScrutinizer	german layout. up/down are blue	01:58
C-S-B-N900	whya.	01:58
C-S-B-N900	oh crap.	01:58
C-S-B-N900	and what is wrong with blue up and down arrows?	01:58
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DocScrutinizer	drives me nuts. and I'm sure I used the äöü for less than 5 keypresses each	01:59
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C-S-B-N900	am i to assume you are german?	01:59
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DocScrutinizer	what's wrong?? you're kidding. they can't be used, as I have to press the blue Fn arrow each time - FOR CURSOR MOVEMENT :-((	02:00
C-S-B-N900	can you get away with not using an umlow or does it start making no sense?	02:00
C-S-B-N900	ouch! can you not remap the key?	02:01
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DocScrutinizer	sure I can. But then I basically end up with a paper to recall the key positions	02:01
C-S-B-N900	a paper?	02:02
DocScrutinizer	showing the real key mapping	02:03
C-S-B-N900	I see your need for a new kb.	02:03
C-S-B-N900	so can you omit an umlow?	02:03
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C-S-B-N900	and have you taken your n900 apart yet?	02:03
DocScrutinizer	I can cope with z and y swapped on german and english kbd. for the special keys that starts to get annoying though to remember where the symbols and punctuation are	02:04
C-S-B-N900	ill be surprised if i dont at one point.	02:04
DocScrutinizer	I managed to avoid that. mainly due to missing replacement screws	02:05
DocScrutinizer	using new screws is mandatory	02:05
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C-S-B-N900	do they strip?	02:07
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DocScrutinizer	break	02:07
C-S-B-N900	i read the requirement in the service manual	02:07
C-S-B-N900	but i didn't realise it would mean they break! i assumed it was a quality decision.	02:08
C-S-B-N900	how do they break?	02:08
DocScrutinizer	in two parts	02:09
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C-S-B-N900	any need for that, seems a bit odd.	02:10
C-S-B-N900	i dont understand how they can break and be removed safely.	02:11
DocScrutinizer	hmm, seems they are worn after one machine assembly	02:11
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DocScrutinizer	well, they remove and break when you try to tighten them on reassembly	02:11
C-S-B-N900	m5s wouldn't do that. :p	02:12
DocScrutinizer	:-)	02:12
* DocScrutinizer away		02:13
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C-S-B-N900	after moving a sofa up 3 flights of stairs today, just holding my n900 seems to be a choir.	02:17
C-S-B-N900	chore.	02:19
C-S-B-N900	idiot.	02:19
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* ptl still wants PR1.2		02:36
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* ptl is working out at his home gym while he wanders around tmo topics and talks on IRC		02:38
CutMeOwnThroat	C-S-B-N900, it did make sense, though	02:44
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C-S-B-N900	i hate poor spelling	02:44
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C-S-B-N900	when is 1.2 being pushed out?	02:45
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C-S-B-N900	if ive flashed the global image to my uk phone, i should get the update normal time yeah?	02:46
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cehteh	eh is this "bike dashboard" available as open source software?	02:49
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ptl	cehteh: if it's not in the meantime you can use ecoach	02:50
cehteh	i dint seen this bike dashboard live yet, but ecoach isnt what i want	02:50
ptl	The blog post with the example code will be coming in a few days once CTIA 2010 has finished. The three teams of finalists are all busy exhibiting their hacks on the official Nokia booth and we'll have some video going live in a few days.	02:51
ptl	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48145&highlight=bike+dashboard	02:51
cehteh	so it will become a open app	02:51
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Arif_	oo	04:02
Arif_	the N900 changed the time by itself	04:02
haltdef	heh	04:03
haltdef	happy 2am	04:03
Arif_	its 3!	04:03
Butcream	cool	04:03
crashanddie	Man, I'd love it if TMO would stop being such an ego-producing petri dish.	04:04
haltdef	n900 arriving on monday	04:04
crashanddie	I mean, wtf, elite here, conspiracy there, oppressive administrators, nokia apoligisers	04:05
crashanddie	seriously?	04:05
DocScrutinizer	ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US	04:06
crashanddie	So the old-timers' elite is influenced by the council, which in turn is licking the administrators' sicle and telling the apologisers what to do?	04:06
crashanddie	Ctrl Alt Elite mofo!	04:06
cehteh	note for what TALK in talk.maemo.org stands for ..	04:06
* javispedro ponders which of gazillion threads that could potentially match crashanddie's experience he's talking about.		04:07
crashanddie	text and letters, kunt?	04:07
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DocScrutinizer	s/(^.*)/small\1/	04:07
cehteh	some people believe they change the world by just talking intensive enough	04:07
cehteh	the more they talk, the less they code .. many only talk	04:08
crashanddie	it has been a very, very long time ever since the majority of people on tmo were devs	04:08
crashanddie	and coders-only isn't what we need either	04:08
cehteh	yep	04:08
crashanddie	but jeesus, why the fuck did we have to inherrit all the roswell fanatics?	04:09
DocScrutinizer	pfeew	04:09
cehteh	but still only talking doesnt change much if ever	04:09
DocScrutinizer	it changed crashanddie's mood obviously	04:10
lcuk	crashanddie, so what should tmo be discussing	04:10
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crashanddie	discuss whatever you want	04:11
crashanddie	but stop antagonising blame and moaning	04:11
* lcuk has enjoyed some recent threads		04:11
crashanddie	oh yeah, no, definitely, there is some good stuff in there	04:11
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DocScrutinizer	hard to find	04:12
lcuk	how do i make a mouse work on a glass table	04:12
DocScrutinizer	get a better one	04:12
lcuk	tracy would shout, the table was expensive	04:12
* lcuk prefers wooden		04:12
DocScrutinizer	beter mouse would do as well	04:13
lcuk	can they work on glass?	04:13
DocScrutinizer	some claim they can	04:13
lcuk	this is a laser one?	04:13
cehteh	lcuk: some laser mouses work on glass table	04:13
cehteh	and old roller ball mouses work too	04:13
DocScrutinizer	err, not really	04:14
lcuk	:) cehteh indeed	04:14
lcuk	a ball mouse	04:14
cehteh	well you can sand/etch the surface that would help too :P	04:14
lcuk	i would still be using one but i have only got ps2 version	04:14
DocScrutinizer	or take a marker	04:14
DocScrutinizer	trow some dust on it ;-)	04:14
DocScrutinizer	throw even	04:14
lcuk	meh ill just finish setting up my new pooter	04:15
javispedro	or get a ... mouse pad.	04:15
cehteh	hydrofluoric acid (or whatever the english name is)	04:15
cehteh	its a bit nasty to handle .. but well	04:16
DocScrutinizer	some scars might do	04:16
cehteh	(a drop on your skin and you die in pain)	04:16
DocScrutinizer	nah	04:16
lcuk	ms windows clock on the setup fails on touchscreen	04:17
lcuk	widgets are tiny and unfreindly	04:17
lcuk	unfriendly too	04:17
DocScrutinizer	HF isn't exactly healthy, but I don't think it's such toxic	04:17
cehteh	http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorwasserstoffs%A4ure#Biologische_Bedeutung	04:17
cehteh	damn xchat	04:17
cehteh	DocScrutinizer: its one of the most nasty substances	04:18
cehteh	http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorwasserstoffs%C3%A4ure#Biologische_Bedeutung	04:18
CutMeOwnThroat	you don't die of a single drop, though	04:18
lcuk	depends where the drop is tho	04:19
CutMeOwnThroat	you will have some doctor stick needles into you and inject calcium chloride in multiple painful steps, though	04:19
lcuk	if it dropped on my pants i think i might die in pain	04:19
DocScrutinizer	hehe, nasty stuff	04:19
cehteh	well depends on the treatmet you get, if you try to rub it off you worsen it .. if not treated it might be serious to fatal when the acid is concentrated	04:20
CutMeOwnThroat	yeah, but a single drop sounds a bit too little for death	04:20
CutMeOwnThroat	but yes... people died of exposure	04:21
cehteh	well want to volunteer in an experiment? :)	04:21
CutMeOwnThroat	actually, some guy did in ##chemistry and wouldn't go to a doctor	04:21
lcuk	thats like people that carry on ircing	04:22
lcuk	yeah and today we OMG ive been shot"	04:22
lcuk	"its bleeding"	04:22
CutMeOwnThroat	don't think so	04:22
lcuk	arghhhh windows ui using touch only is shat	04:23
* cehteh learned a chemistry job actually ... looong ago		04:23
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shinkamui	sup guys	06:17
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crashanddie	probably a bit old for some: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgqnOqfehJE	06:19
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crashanddie	Highly recommend anyone to watch this: http://www.ted.com/talks/jamie_oliver.html	08:07
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* RST38h yawns		09:06
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RST38h	wazzzd	09:09
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* rm_you eagerly anticipates being "back"		09:16
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RST38h	rm_you: Finals soon? =)	09:42
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Shapeshifter	so, i'm going across the border and I dont want any gprs traffic to happen. but i still want wlan and sms. theres no setting for that, right. I simply shouldnt choose a gprs connection?	09:51
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LuciusMare	Hello, how does one set user's PATH, and does busybox have it's file that's executed on start?	09:57
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LiraNuna	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCx8RfNhhXk	10:03
LiraNuna	oh	10:03
LiraNuna	my	10:03
LiraNuna	god	10:03
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LiraNuna	where can we get those demos?!	10:06
LiraNuna	they look very practical	10:06
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LuciusMare	hm. And will it mess the system if i will change "user"'s default shell to bash?	10:18
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crashanddie	LiraNuna: I guess there's a reason they're demos, and not "Newly released software"	10:27
LiraNuna	are you suggesting something? :)	10:28
LuciusMare	on fremantle	10:28
LiraNuna	LuciusMare, I would love to know that too	10:29
LiraNuna	I find ash annoying	10:29
crashanddie	LiraNuna: me? Suggesting? Never.	10:30
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LuciusMare	LiraNuna: k, i will try...	10:31
LuciusMare	but one last thing: does the backup app cover the /home ?	10:31
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LuciusMare	or, if i would need to reflash, does it erase the /home?	10:32
LiraNuna	I believe reflashing wipes everything	10:32
LiraNuna	at least it does on N810	10:32
LiraNuna	everything internal, that is	10:33
LuciusMare	:o	10:33
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LuciusMare	k, MyDocs?	10:34
LiraNuna	/	10:34
LiraNuna	I didn't reflash my N900 yet, but N810, everything goes away	10:35
LuciusMare	wow	10:35
LiraNuna	+in	10:36
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LuciusMare	hm, it seems that mydocs stays there	10:39
LiraNuna	oh that's nice to know	10:39
LiraNuna	I recall everything wipes away on N810	10:40
LiraNuna	my poor N810 didn't get any attention since I got my n900	10:40
* LiraNuna goes to pet it		10:40
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crashanddie	LiraNuna: no, the internal memory card wasn't touched during flash either	10:49
crashanddie	even on the n810	10:49
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LiraNuna	crashanddie, weird, I recall everything wiping away	10:55
crashanddie	that's alsheimer's	10:55
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LiraNuna	I forgot how awesome the N810WE keyboard is	10:57
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t_s_o	sometimes its worrying to see 3 year old bugs with patches provied linger in the bug tracker...	11:39
Stskeeps	well, some are getting picked up by lma	11:39
Stskeeps	but honestly, best way to include patches is through maemo.gitorious.org	11:40
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t_s_o	maybe now, but was it back then?	11:40
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Stskeeps	yeah, i agree it is worrying	11:44
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LuciusMare	okay, so setting bash as default shell works, but not exactly as expected	12:08
LuciusMare	$PS1 is kinda screwed up, and .bashrc is not executed after running	12:08
LuciusMare	but that is xterm's problem, i guess, running bash (again) from the prompt works	12:10
Stskeeps	does rebooting work?	12:10
Stskeeps	:P	12:10
LuciusMare	erm.	12:10
LuciusMare	I just rebooted ;)	12:10
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LuciusMare	gah, but it kinda pisses me off :<	12:11
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LuciusMare	I'll make a thread on tmo...	12:13
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DocScrutinizer	hooray for thread o tmo	12:33
Stskeeps	which one?	12:33
Stskeeps	:P	12:33
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DocScrutinizer	<LuciusMare> I'll make a thread on tmo...	12:33
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Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: how would you say your ideal development environment for MeeGo would be?	12:33
DocScrutinizer	meego topics after first coffee only - esp on sundays :-P	12:34
Stskeeps	fair enough	12:34
* Stskeeps brews a cup for DocScrutinizer		12:34
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* man_in_ltop waves		12:43
Stskeeps	moo	12:44
DocScrutinizer	hmm, my current ideas along the line "eclipse, with integrated qt-designer, linguist, ssh, sftp, and remote gdb" might indicate the coffee needs some time to kick in :-P	12:44
atiti	i needa try mer	12:45
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DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: anyway to me it seems I'd like a client-server architecture for dev environment (where server is either a real device like N900, or an emu on same or different PC than the client), rather than this bizarre chroot setup we got now	12:51
LuciusMare	Hi, i set bash as default shell for user, but there are a few problems, for example .bashrc is not executed and $PS* variables are set differently. I use fremantle	12:52
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: would a VM where you can test locally on x86 and then with one command build for arm work too?	12:52
DocScrutinizer	LuciusMare: this all is really welknown, not only for maemo (rather for all friggin messybox based systems)	12:53
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: sure, as long as VM is the server part running the target architecture, and I "log in" to it from my usual working environment	12:54
LuciusMare	DocScrutinizer: Too bad, but thanks for answering :)	12:55
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man_in_ltop	i'm wondering if there's a sort of general-purpose hierarchical data storage thingy for maemo	12:55
corecode_	upstart is completely broken in maemo	12:56
Stskeeps	really? :P	12:56
LuciusMare	DocScrutinizer: also, nothing really wrong with busybox, although it is maybe too "lightweight" for maemo	12:58
Stskeeps	also, it's gplv2	12:58
Stskeeps	:P	12:58
DocScrutinizer	I HATE BUSYBOX	12:58
LuciusMare	Why?	12:59
* RST38h crashed the hildon status bar		12:59
man_in_ltop	pfft, busybox is only marginally less awesome than bourne	12:59
RST38h	how funny is that?	12:59
man_in_ltop	and everyone knows bourne is the most awesome shell in the universe ;)	12:59
DocScrutinizer	and - honestly - I found very little not to be wrong with messybox	12:59
Stskeeps	scratchbox or busybox?	12:59
Stskeeps	:P	12:59
DocScrutinizer	BUSYBOX, I HATE BUSYBOX	13:00
LuciusMare	...	13:00
corecode_	beep	13:00
corecode_	upstart, anyone?	13:00
corecode_	it keeps hanging when i use "start", and doesn't launch on boot	13:01
LuciusMare	busybox is great, but it does not fit into maemo	13:01
DocScrutinizer	less is a crippled more, like almost all cmds are. the whole concept isn't for interactive use	13:01
LuciusMare	well, that's the point	13:01
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LuciusMare	Would you want to have this pile of full-blown gnu utilities... at a router?	13:02
DocScrutinizer	messybox is a script interpreter for non-interactive systems' initscripts - if it's useful for anything at all	13:02
TTilus	my n900 has my timezone wrong, last night we went EET->EEST but if i have "automatical" selected in date/time settings it gives me EET	13:03
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DocScrutinizer	actually for that (executing initscripts) it's not that bad. Good design for this purpose	13:04
DocScrutinizer	for a user login shell it's simply FUBAR	13:05
corecode_	initscripts don't work!	13:05
corecode_	at least the upstart ones	13:05
corecode_	i'd like to have zsh anyhow	13:05
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DocScrutinizer	corecode_: how comes my phone performs remarkably good, without working upstart scripts? ;-P	13:06
corecode_	DocScrutinizer: you tell me	13:06
Stskeeps	corecode_: as in /etc/rc?.d ones? :P	13:06
corecode_	DocScrutinizer: most scripts are init.d style ones	13:06
DocScrutinizer	I tell you you're wrong	13:06
RST38h	MSI informed the over 97,000 people registered with its support forums that its reps were "fed up" with repeating information easily found in user manuals. The company even went so far as to say that it had installed an "RTFM" chip on its hardware boards to determine whether users had read their manuals and that anyone who hadn't read them would be banned from support.	13:06
corecode_	Stskeeps: no, as in /etc/event.d ones	13:07
Stskeeps	RST38h: excellent	13:07
RST38h	"...and don't ever write us again, bitch"	13:07
corecode_	DocScrutinizer: just try a simple one, it hangs here while starting	13:07
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lardman	morning	13:08
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LuciusMare	hi	13:08
lardman	anyone have a pointer to file selection dialogs in Qt?	13:09
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: cool, but a month and some days too early	13:09
LuciusMare	and anyway, DocScrutinizer, what does busybox have to do with these problems? I thought that it's just xterm that runs the shell...	13:09
DocScrutinizer	LuciusMare: yeah probably	13:09
lardman	is needed for scripts too	13:09
DocScrutinizer	first coffe didn't kick in yet	13:10
* lardman is on the way for another too! :)		13:10
lardman	I'll grab one for you too	13:10
ShadowJK	less is crippled? I thought that was terminfo not busybox issue ;p	13:10
ShadowJK	having to press ctrl-j instead of enter..	13:11
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: lol	13:11
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: you ever tried to search text in busybox-less?	13:11
ShadowJK	uh, I have real less installed afaik	13:12
DocScrutinizer	you bet me too	13:12
ShadowJK	and that works except ctrl-j instead of return	13:12
DocScrutinizer	no issue here	13:12
DocScrutinizer	:-o	13:12
DocScrutinizer	or I never noticed?	13:13
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DocScrutinizer	but for busybox topic - all cmds are totally crippled. Well almost all	13:13
ShadowJK	eol = M-^?; eol2 = M-^?;	13:14
* corecode_ gives up on plain upstart and creates init.d script		13:15
RST38h	DocScrut: ls works.	13:15
DocScrutinizer	so rather than having messybox PLUS coreutils, binutils, findutils, less, you-name-it, I'd rather prefer a decent bash-based setup, completely messybox free	13:15
corecode_	bash?	13:15
corecode_	eek.	13:15
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: WHAT works?	13:15
RST38h	another BSD user? =)	13:15
ShadowJK	I suspect meego isn't having busybox :)	13:15
RST38h	DocScrut: I can type "ls" in BusyBox and it show me directory listing!	13:15
corecode_	zsh kplz	13:15
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ShadowJK	busybox sh line editing isn't utf8 proof	13:16
ShadowJK	that annoys me the most	13:16
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: incredible!!1!!!1!!	13:17
ShadowJK	hehe, get this, I was listening to streaming music with default media player over hsdpa 2 bars of signal, and i held hand near antenna too long, phone switched to 2.5g, I removed hand and it went back to 3.5g, without any interruption in music!	13:18
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: try 'busybox ls --help' vs '/bin/ls --help'	13:18
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corecode_	how come the tools in scratchbox are others than on the device?	13:21
Stskeeps	cos it's scratchbox	13:21
Stskeeps	:P	13:21
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: see? ^^^	13:21
* Stskeeps isn't a scratchbox fan but it does some things right		13:22
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: server-client plz	13:22
Stskeeps	i'm a OBS fan personally :P	13:22
LuciusMare	gah	13:23
LuciusMare	/home/user # apt-get install coreutils	13:23
LuciusMare	busybox is already the newest version.	13:23
LuciusMare	oh, coreutils-gnu >_>	13:24
DocScrutinizer	LuciusMare: your one cmdline makes me think you're invoking apt-get as user 'user'	13:24
ShadowJK	installing coreutils replacing busybox used to be guaranteed way to brick device :)	13:24
LuciusMare	DocScrutinizer: see the '#' ?	13:24
DocScrutinizer	ahh	13:24
LuciusMare	ShadowJK: used to be?	13:24
DocScrutinizer	yo	13:25
ShadowJK	hopefully coreutils-gnu thingy puts it in /opt/gnu or something solaris/bsd-like	13:25
DocScrutinizer	as the friggin initscripts rely on messybox bugs to work correctly	13:25
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: ah yes, run-parts -l for instance :P	13:25
DocScrutinizer	I HATE BUSYBOX!	13:26
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK, /usr/bin/gnu	13:26
* ShadowJK facepalms		13:26
dottedmag	back to the SunOS	13:26
DocScrutinizer	yeeeha!	13:27
SpeedEvil	well - which is a symlink to /opt	13:27
dottedmag	/usr/xpg4/bin/sh	13:27
DocScrutinizer	migration SunOS to Solaris was... err, real fun?	13:27
ShadowJK	even /usr/gnu with symlinks would have been less facepalm	13:27
LuciusMare	I do not hate busybox, yet i agree with DocScrutinizer, N900 (or fremantle, if you will) deserves a full blown installation, like this, it is stuck right between power user tool and a clevarphone	13:28
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dottedmag	Well, I recently spotted /usr/share/beep.wav in my (quite small compared to Maemo) embedded system - It's easy to do it wrong without regular review and cleanup.	13:28
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SpeedEvil	LuciusMare, wrong.	13:29
SpeedEvil	LuciusMare, at least for script use	13:29
DocScrutinizer	BAH	13:29
SpeedEvil	LuciusMare, busybox tools are ver nloticable faster and lower RAM	13:29
SpeedEvil	as it' all in ram anyway	13:30
ShadowJK	so are busybox tools posix compliant? ;p	13:30
DocScrutinizer	I'd happily watch each boot take 5 extra seconds, just to know it's done by a decent shell, rather than messybox	13:30
dottedmag	ShadowJK: it's a bug if not	13:30
dottedmag	DocScrutinizer: it's a religion (or similar brain-damageness)	13:30
ShadowJK	ah, that's fine then	13:30
LuciusMare	for script use, yes. But as ds DS said, not for interactive use	13:30
ShadowJK	because if you stray outside posix you're un unportable-land anyway ;p	13:31
dottedmag	For interactive use I'd install zsh. Rest of tools are quite ok	13:31
dottedmag	And there's bunch of DESKTOP_* config options to enable more useful options.	13:31
dottedmag	So it might have sense to ping virtuoso to enable those in newer busybox as he updates it in maemo.	13:32
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: the 'lower on ram' bit I give a shit as on init we got plenty of ram, and I'd hope messybox frees ram as does bash	13:32
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: for the 'faster' we still need decent figures	13:32
DocScrutinizer	and for regular everyday scripting you want a decent POSIX conformant shell anyway, won't you?	13:34
dottedmag	DocScrutinizer: busybox shell is a decent posix conformant shell.	13:34
DocScrutinizer	muhaha	13:34
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dottedmag	DocScrutinizer: prove non-conformance.	13:34
DocScrutinizer	so how comes maemo init breaks on replacing messybox coreutils??	13:35
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dottedmag	Okay, you can't.	13:35
SpeedEvil	lower on ram - start 2 bashes and ashes, and look at pss	13:35
SpeedEvil	of the second	13:35
SpeedEvil	google smem for a good tool to look at PSS	13:36
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DocScrutinizer	dottedmag: wouldn't you agree a shell like bash is proven to be POSIX? and coreutils as well? Why can't initscripts run with coreutils installed then?	13:37
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dottedmag	DocScrutinizer: NO	13:37
dottedmag	DocScrutinizer: there are lot of bugs in bash	13:37
LuciusMare	bug free != posix complaint	13:37
dottedmag	oh shit	13:37
DocScrutinizer	ok, show me a case where messybox is right, and bash fails, please	13:38
dottedmag	DocScrutinizer: It's your obligation to prove that busybox ash is wrong, as you started the whining.	13:38
DocScrutinizer	show me a proof for messybox being more POSIX than coreutils	13:38
dottedmag	And stop "more" bullshit.	13:38
DocScrutinizer	dottedmag: I'll simply stop arguing with you, sir	13:39
LuciusMare	heh, funny	13:39
LuciusMare	What is the command to get battery level?	13:39
DocScrutinizer	lshal	13:40
DocScrutinizer	\|grep bat	13:40
LuciusMare	My tablet just got reseted because of low battery, I let it charge for ~10 minutes and yet it shows full battery level	13:40
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SpeedEvil	smem - look at http://www.mauve.plus.com/memlog	13:40
LuciusMare	for more than five minutes	13:40
SpeedEvil	some are surprisingly light in pss	13:40
SpeedEvil	camkeyd say - 8k	13:41
SpeedEvil	pss is proportional set size.	13:42
SpeedEvil	if 9 progs allocate 1 lib, each gets 1/9th added to its pss	13:43
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: what are you at, mate?	13:43
SpeedEvil	Going out into the garden to dig.	13:43
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: know 'Blaumilch channel' ?	13:44
SpeedEvil	and commenting on ram use - especially of busybox	13:44
SpeedEvil	no	13:44
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SpeedEvil	on another matter - anyone know of a thing that goes beep on low wifi sig?	13:45
DocScrutinizer	http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Blaumilchkanal	13:45
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LuciusMare	SpeedEvil: no, if you will get one, tell me :)	13:50
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O2eYMlSBI0	13:50
LuciusMare	DocScrutinizer: what's that?	13:51
FIQ	ok, i don't know much about linux but wouldn't it be possible to make a symlink to /home/opt from, whatever applications prefer to be installed?	13:51
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dottedmag	FIQ: apps are installed to lot of different directories by default	13:52
FIQ	ah	13:52
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crashanddie	FIQ: linux doesn't work like windows, with a PRogram Files dir	14:05
FIQ	hm	14:06
DocScrutinizer	LuciusMare: that's my take on SpeedEvil digging his garden day after day, for weeks	14:06
DocScrutinizer	;-D	14:06
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DocScrutinizer	"The Big Dig" ;-P	14:07
RST38h	anyone knows why hildon notification bubbles would show up with the broken icon???	14:07
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RST38h	!	14:08
RST38h	VDVsx: Have you ever encontered a situation when hildon notification bubbles pop up with a broken image?	14:08
RST38h	(i.e. little broken document image to be exact)	14:09
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: sounds like 1.2 ?	14:09
RST38h	no	14:09
DocScrutinizer	a goat eaten your icon files?	14:10
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LuciusMare	huh	14:11
VDVsx	RST38h, no, the yellow notes ?	14:11
LuciusMare	i have gcc-base installed, yet it goes "gcc: command not found"	14:11
RST38h	yes	14:11
RST38h	the LITTLE yellow notes	14:11
Stskeeps	hm, sygic is actually quite good	14:12
RST38h	ones which fly out then fly away	14:12
Stskeeps	LuciusMare: gcc-defaults	14:12
* DocScrutinizer suggests strace to RST38h		14:12
RST38h	tried, didn't work	14:12
RST38h	does not find anything meaningful	14:13
RST38h	will try again, for the hell of it though	14:13
DocScrutinizer	o.O	14:13
LuciusMare	Stskeeps: package nor command exist...	14:13
DocScrutinizer	if the icon data is linked in (i.e. no file) then that's really strange	14:14
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DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: heh, you made my phone nag me again ;-)	14:15
RST38h	How do I redirect strace output into a file?	14:15
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: 0.1.8-3	14:15
RST38h	ah -o	14:15
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RST38h	None of the icon files show up in the strace. Weird	14:20
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DocScrutinizer	statically linked data?	14:21
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LuciusMare	hm, can i compile on my n900?	14:22
DocScrutinizer	or you missed a fstat() or sth before, which decided the app can't find the correct directory	14:22
DocScrutinizer	LuciusMare: I heard some brave guys did	14:23
LuciusMare	meh.	14:24
DocScrutinizer	actually N900 has more bang than my CF-27 panasonic toughbook. And I compiled real KDE apps there :-P	14:24
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LuciusMare	ha	14:25
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LuciusMare	the only thing that holds me down is the little fact that gcc is not in repos	14:25
crashanddie	it isn't?	14:25
LuciusMare	well	14:25
crashanddie	that's weird, I wonder how everyone manages to compile shit for the n900 then?	14:26
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LuciusMare	there is gcc-4.2-base	14:26
LuciusMare	crashanddie: scratchbox?	14:26
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crashanddie	and?	14:26
LuciusMare	that's a cross-compiling env	14:26
crashanddie	and?	14:26
LuciusMare	aint it obvious?	14:26
crashanddie	not to you apparently	14:26
MohammadAG	is there a way to clone a repository?	14:26
LuciusMare	:<	14:27
DocScrutinizer	LuciusMare: scratchbox isn't exactly a xcompile setup aiui	14:27
LuciusMare	okay, DS said that some brave guys did	14:27
LuciusMare	some brave guys probably didnt code all the apps for maemo	14:27
DocScrutinizer	it's more like a VM with genuine tools for target arch	14:27
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: add deb http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk free non-free to your repos, then apt-get install build-essential	14:28
crashanddie	erhm, sorry, that was for LuciusMare	14:28
RST38h	Mhm, real xchat starts via maemo-invoker	14:28
RST38h	Shit	14:29
LuciusMare	wont it eat my rootfs?	14:29
crashanddie	LuciusMare: sure will	14:29
RST38h	How do I strace THAT?	14:29
crashanddie	RST38h: plug JTAG right into your brain	14:29
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: never even hreard of maemo-invoker	14:30
LuciusMare	crashanddie: sounds great	14:30
dottedmag	RST38h: through strace -f	14:30
crashanddie	some people only feel pain, others can see a brunette, blonde...	14:30
RST38h	dotted: does not work	14:30
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dottedmag	RST38h: and what process does the actual fork/exec? just attach to it	14:31
crashanddie	LuciusMare: It's not optimal, but people have been developping on the n800 for quite some time, no reason the same things wouldn't work for n900	14:31
RST38h	dotted: Probably some dbus crap	14:31
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dottedmag	RST38h: dbus crap does not run anything, except services as described in service files.	14:31
* DocScrutinizer mumbles "easy debian"		14:31
LuciusMare	crashanddie: MyDocs chroot, maybe?	14:31
dottedmag	And I don't believe xchat is registered as dbus service.	14:31
LuciusMare	DocScrutinizer: i heard something about it, but nothing more	14:32
RST38h	mhm, correct	14:32
RST38h	on the other hand, -f does not help	14:32
LuciusMare	meh	14:32
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LuciusMare	i guess that downloading the whole chroot on this gprs will be...	14:33
LuciusMare	slow.	14:33
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dottedmag	RST38h: according to google, maemo-invoker calls maemo-launcher which does the actual work.	14:33
* RST38h makes an attempt to facepalm		14:33
LuciusMare	RST38h: you fail even at facepalming? facepalms	14:34
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FIQ	W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz Write error - write (28 No space left on device)	14:35
FIQ	sounds nice. :d	14:35
RST38h	Ok, I am totally lost.	14:35
LuciusMare	ha	14:35
LuciusMare	FIQ: df /	14:36
FIQ	4.4MB	14:36
FIQ	8 did that	14:36
FIQ	s/8/i/	14:36
infobot	FIQ meant: i did that	14:36
RST38h	The icon in the left top corner of the bubbles shown by libnotify: where the hell does it come from???	14:36
FIQ	or well, i used -h but w/e	14:36
MohammadAG	FIQ, df /var/lib/dpkg	14:36
LuciusMare	apt-clean	14:37
LuciusMare	s/n/r/	14:37
infobot	LuciusMare meant: apt-clear	14:37
FIQ	4.3M available	14:37
LuciusMare	wait, no, clean :D	14:37
MohammadAG	FIQ, not the same command	14:37
FIQ	after the clean: 10.0M	14:37
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MohammadAG	actually	14:37
LuciusMare	i optified mywhole /var/cache	14:37
MohammadAG	du -h /var/lib \| grep M	14:37
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LuciusMare	rm -rf / ;P	14:38
LuciusMare	(I hope you dont do that)	14:38
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FIQ	lol, np	14:39
FIQ	i know what it does	14:39
FIQ	:)	14:39
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LuciusMare	i had this case on our local ubuntu forum	14:39
LuciusMare	he got banned for saying that to a noobie	14:39
FIQ	maybe i don't know much linux, but i'm not _that_ stupid. :P	14:39
FIQ	hah	14:39
LuciusMare	i was one of the mods... :/	14:40
LuciusMare	back to our topic	14:41
LuciusMare	i recommend going through the "uninstall" menu in ham, it shows the size	14:41
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FIQ	hm	14:42
FIQ	can i check what takes spaces on where?	14:42
crashanddie	search tmo	14:42
crashanddie	there's a script by zerojay who does just that	14:43
LuciusMare	du -h /usr :)	14:43
corecode_	alright	14:43
corecode_	finally i got it all down	14:43
crashanddie	and also, it allows you to move stuff from the rootfs to the other partition	14:43
crashanddie	corecode_: too many blue pills at once?	14:43
LuciusMare	crashanddie: he took both	14:43
corecode_	crashanddie: no, the debhelper scripts for maemo are broken	14:43
crashanddie	oh, condoleances	14:44
corecode_	and upstart is old and undocumented	14:44
crashanddie	upstart?	14:44
corecode_	= pain	14:44
corecode_	the init.d replacement	14:44
crashanddie	hm	14:44
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crashanddie	A beginner's guide to slashdot: get your karma up to "Excellent" by posting a handful of +5 comments, and then never spend all of your mod points = 5 mod points every day, unlimited karma	14:47
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crashanddie	All your comments start with +2 to begin with, which tends to make them rise faster anyway (sheep effect, "oh, someone already modded him up, we need to make sure others can see it")	14:48
SpeedEvil	And there I was trying to clarify poorly understood points for the elucidation of others.	14:49
* SpeedEvil has been doing it wrong.		14:49
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* DocScrutinizer coughs		14:50
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FIQ	hm	14:52
FIQ	my battery died	14:53
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: where you've been?	14:53
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: du /usr\|sort -n\|less	14:53
FIQ	hm	14:53
FIQ	i don't know the syntax but it's wrong	14:53
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DocScrutinizer	nah,if there's anything wrong, then it's MESSYBOX	14:54
DocScrutinizer	I HATE BUSYBOX	14:54
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FIQ	eheh	14:55
crashanddie	SpeedEvil: /. crowd praises itself to be more technically oriented, and less thick than the people at large because they, by self-classification think they are more critical thinkers and have a deeper understanding of the world	14:55
Ken-Young	Will meego use busybox?	14:55
crashanddie	SpeedEvil: truth is, they're as misinformed and thick as the rest of the world	14:55
FIQ	anyway, why does "Maemo 5" showing up at the uninstall thing?	14:55
crashanddie	Ken-Young: saw a thread about that on the mailing lists, can't remember the outcome	14:56
FIQ	i have no plans at uninstalling it, and i'm pretty sure none else too	14:56
SpeedEvil	crashanddie, somewhat	14:56
crashanddie	Ken-Young: thread in question: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-February/000574.html	14:57
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: btw no problem here, on N900 with busybox	14:58
Ken-Young	crashanddie, Thanks for the pointer!	14:58
FIQ	it maybe should be a pipe somewhere?	14:58
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FIQ	du: invalid option -- n	14:58
crashanddie	FIQ: nobody told you to use -n	14:59
FIQ	/home/user # du /usr sort -n less	14:59
crashanddie	he said \| sort -n \| less	14:59
crashanddie	PIPE	14:59
FIQ	well, as i though	14:59
crashanddie	see that vertical bar? It's a special character	15:00
FIQ	but i used a pipe to little it seems (i tried a pipe before sort)	15:00
* crashanddie facepalms		15:00
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crashanddie	what use is it to tell people to do stuff if they don't even understand the basic concepts?	15:00
DocScrutinizer	c&p may help	15:01
flux	how would I mount the external mmc, given that the device thinks the back cover is open?	15:02
crashanddie	you can't, iirc	15:02
flux	it's electronically prevented?	15:02
flux	difficult to believe..	15:02
crashanddie	no, logically	15:02
FIQ	i readed the pipe as a space, i missed that it was a pipe, ok?	15:02
flux	so the limitation would be implemented in the linux kernel or linux user side?	15:02
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FIQ	gosh, your patience suck	15:03
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flux	I guess I'll just find a magnet and look what happens	15:03
ech0dish	my n900 will no longer charge off my wall charger only the usb charger... perhaps my wall charger has some how gone bad?	15:04
crashanddie	ech0dish: what wall charger is it?	15:04
crashanddie	ech0dish: one with interchangeable plug-adapters?	15:04
FIQ	less wasn't found anyway	15:04
ech0dish	its the one that was originally shipped with it	15:04
crashanddie	ech0dish: try with another one if you can find one (or ask to us one off your friends)	15:04
crashanddie	s/us/use	15:05
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: du -x / \| sort -n \| less; # even better	15:05
ech0dish	i've tried it on a few outlets but i have nothing else to try and charge with it to see if its the adapter.. would suck to buy another one and find out this is some type of conflict with something i've downloaded...	15:06
FIQ	less is still not found	15:06
FIQ	:)	15:06
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FIQ	and i copy/pasted this time to dodge fails	15:06
DocScrutinizer	so use it without " \| less"	15:07
FIQ	yeah, did it	15:08
DocScrutinizer	though I seem to remember less was a link to messybox, before I installed decent less :-o	15:08
FIQ	got wall of lines	15:08
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: the last lines indicate the largest dirs/files on root filesystem	15:08
FIQ	guess it is how much space any dirs take	15:09
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FIQ	yeah	15:09
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flux	bah, indeed it looks like the sensor is used by the mmc block device driver :-o	15:09
* DocScrutinizer facepalms		15:10
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DocScrutinizer	flux: If you reprogram the GPIO used for the reed contact, you might be able to fake a closed backcover by writing a 0 or 1 to that output	15:12
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flux	docscrutinizer, for today, I think I'll just find a tape, though :)	15:13
adalal	is there a way to make your n900 handsfree and use a computer as a speaker and mic, or a control panel?	15:14
flux	actually.. maybe I can poll the gpio pins from /sys to find the pin first..	15:14
DocScrutinizer	that's easy -> dmesg	15:15
DocScrutinizer	names GPIOxxx in verbatim	15:15
flux	it only talks about slide and kb_lock	15:15
flux	the messages surrounding mmcblk1 activity don't have GPIO-messages nearby	15:15
DocScrutinizer	nah, really. Seems my memory plays jokes on me	15:16
lcuk	isnt there a memcheck app?	15:16
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marcus_	Expecting my n900 in a few days :3	15:17
lcuk	:D	15:17
DocScrutinizer	gah, you're right	15:17
flux	/sys/bus/platform/drivers/gpio-switch apperas to have a bunch of already labeled directories, but none of them seem to reflect the mmc switch..	15:17
* Jaffa 's new N900 is sat with DHL. Not rush to pick it up (until MeeGo day 1, anyway)		15:17
flux	unless cmt os something like that	15:17
lcuk	lardman, qt creator includes a "Standard dialogs" example	15:18
lcuk	i believe you can just use any of those in your code	15:18
lcuk	and they should work as described	15:18
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DocScrutinizer	flux: Mar 28 14:16:42 IroN900 ke_recv[1327]: prop_modified:1889: udi /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_mmci_omap_hs_0_mmc_host modified button.state.value	15:20
DocScrutinizer	Mar 28 14:16:42 IroN900 ke_recv[1327]: event_in_cover_open:1042: E_CLOSED for ext-MMC	15:21
DocScrutinizer	from syslog -- dunno if that helps	15:21
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flux	I thought it would, but hald-addon-gpio doesn't react then I activate the sensor	15:24
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flux	it does react when I slide open the keyboard (by react: issue system calls as per strace)	15:24
lardman	lcuk: Thanks, I found some example code in the end	15:25
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noobmonk3y	lcuk, - hows brum-meetup?	15:32
DocScrutinizer	flux: from schematics, sdcard hotswap sensor is wired to : GPIO_160 T21 McBSP1_CLKS	15:32
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DocScrutinizer	on D4800 OMAP4030	15:33
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lcuk	noobmonk3y, :D was great, for the half hour or so we made it lol	15:35
lcuk	2 hours late lost driving around with tracytracy giving directions was "amusing"	15:36
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noobmonk3y	lol!	15:36
noobmonk3y	MohammadAG, sorry missed ya pm yesterday - left my irc on idling	15:37
lcuk	then on the way back 2 junctions of m6 were blocked	15:37
noobmonk3y	lcuk, - thats usual though isnt it?	15:37
lcuk	had a great time tho :) me n tracy and no kids for the night was worth it	15:37
noobmonk3y	:D :D	15:37
nidO	oh hey	15:37
MohammadAG	noobmonk3y, np, i forgot what I wanted to say lol	15:37
nidO	as theres several brits here now	15:37
lcuk	and met some cool ppl	15:37
noobmonk3y	lol, sure it was uber-important ;)	15:37
noobmonk3y	lo nick_fn	15:38
noobmonk3y	nidO,	15:38
noobmonk3y	meh	15:38
nidO	read plus vote plx :D http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48497	15:38
noobmonk3y	auto-tabbing fail......	15:38
noobmonk3y	voting :D	15:38
nick_fn	Hey anyway noobmonk3y ;-)	15:38
nidO	ta :D	15:38
flux	docscrutinizer, thanks, I'll take a note of it. although my small-piece-of-hard-drive-magnet+duck-tape-solution seems to be working fine..	15:38
flux	docscrutinizer, although I'm a bit worried if the tape will lose its cohesion resulting possibly in the magnet shorting the sensor permanently :)	15:39
noobmonk3y	lol hi nick_fn - you.... yuo.... ..... first person on the N'list lol	15:39
noobmonk3y	right...... what to do today ......	15:40
nidO	isnt highlighting fun	15:40
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noobmonk3y	nidO, :\|	15:40
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noobmonk3y	hmmmmmmmmm i need to give healthcheck a graphics overhall... and it needs to do some threading for constant reading of values i feel	15:41
nidO	i've managed to get that "other platforms" idea as the top voted idea on the national trust's feedback for the iphone app in about 12 hours, hopefully theyll take note of that :D	15:41
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ShadowJK	is reading values taking alot of time?	15:47
ShadowJK	with little cpu use?	15:47
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gouverneur	any news on pr1.2 yet?	15:55
noobmonk3y	its going to be pink.......	15:55
haltdef	yes, it's out but you cannot have it	15:56
haltdef	!	15:56
noobmonk3y	lols	15:56
noobmonk3y	gouverneur, be a bit more specific	15:56
noobmonk3y	1.2 is available on an adk environment	15:56
noobmonk3y	common sense then asks why on there?	15:56
noobmonk3y	answer - so the developers can confirm apps work :D	15:56
gouverneur	euweick PINK thats a serious show stopper to me, wont buy it though	15:56
haltdef	which reminds me, updates to maemo don't mean reflash+hard reset like on WM devices, right? :x	15:56
noobmonk3y	ahhhh next question - how long to fix an app and get it through extras-testing? minimum 2 weeks ;)	15:57
noobmonk3y	nope haltdef - not yet	15:57
gouverneur	noobmonk3y: what do you want to tell me?	15:57
haltdef	not yet?	15:57
noobmonk3y	gouverneur, nothing, :D	15:57
gouverneur	noobmonk3y: ^^ right	15:57
noobmonk3y	adk - meant sdk	15:57
noobmonk3y	meh meh meh, darn my fat fingers	15:57
gouverneur	noobmonk3y: I am just to lazy to grep from irc...	15:58
noobmonk3y	lol	15:58
noobmonk3y	i'm hoping for 1.2 after easter at some point :D	15:58
noobmonk3y	my prediction would be somewhere between 12th - 24th ish	15:58
ech0dish	joikuspot makes my n900 get kinda hot	15:58
noobmonk3y	ech0dish, - mine too	15:58
ech0dish	i don't like that lol	15:58
noobmonk3y	updated version?	15:58
gouverneur	noobmonk3y: that sdk is upgraded I know thats days ago, screwed my sdk again	15:59
noobmonk3y	has been better for me	15:59
ech0dish	i got retail	15:59
noobmonk3y	yeah, i mean the updated retail one?	15:59
noobmonk3y	had an upgrade last week	15:59
ech0dish	i dunno lol	15:59
noobmonk3y	re-enable the joiku repos and see :D	15:59
noobmonk3y	runs a lot better	15:59
noobmonk3y	less battery and heat issues	15:59
ech0dish	aight haha	15:59
ech0dish	i think it might of burned my charger	16:00
noobmonk3y	:\|	16:00
ech0dish	i can't use my wall charger no more	16:00
ech0dish	just the usb one..	16:00
noobmonk3y	right off for lunch, back laters	16:00
ech0dish	i dunno.. it just does nothin	16:00
ech0dish	l8	16:00
gouverneur	l8	16:00
gouverneur	damn this freakin fft lib is playing up on me and if I am right I have to integrate it in the program using it if I want it in extras...	16:01
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ech0dish	wonder where he is to be eatin lunch right now	16:01
ech0dish	like 8am here lol	16:01
gouverneur	ech0dish: uk	16:02
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gouverneur	ech0dish: I didnt have breakfast yet but its 3pm...	16:03
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anotnac	ovi publishing is down and ovi store will be down tomorrow, i'm hoping its a sign of better maemo support coming	16:03
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ech0dish	i think maemo's good on its own lol	16:04
ech0dish	my device now does everything i care about it doing	16:04
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anotnac	i want to play some the cool games from the MWC video	16:04
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C-S-B-N900	am i dead?	16:05
ech0dish	no?	16:05
gouverneur	ech0dish: apart of autoconnecting wpa-enterprise, making coffee, connect enterprise-shares (samba or ws)	16:05
gouverneur	C-S-B-N900: you look alike	16:06
C-S-B-N900	cheers.	16:06
gouverneur	but I guess your not	16:06
gouverneur	have you tried to look in a mirror yet	16:06
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FIQ	"making coffe" - buy some kind of ir/bt-enabled coffe maker, make n900 enabled to communicate with it and done. :D	16:08
FIQ	lol	16:08
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gouverneur	FIQ: it is on its way...	16:09
JLP	hi all, I would like to ask about the idea I have for GSoC	16:10
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crashanddie	anyone know what "wtfc TS" means?	16:10
gouverneur	my saeco vienna is currently pulled apart in the kitchen due to heater issues, the hardware looks simple enough to attach it to a bt switch	16:10
gouverneur	crashanddie: was wondering the same	16:11
crashanddie	gouverneur & FIQ: please don't use new ways to make coffee listen to computers, there are very well defined standards for that	16:11
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* RST38h would go for a wireless MIDI sequencer sending electric shocks to the members of a symphony orchestra		16:11
RST38h	Can this qualify for a Google Summer of Code project?	16:11
gouverneur	RST38h: thats sounds int... wait for it	16:12
crashanddie	HTCPCP comes to mind	16:12
gouverneur	my coffeemaker is just to heat up if any bt radio in range is available...	16:12
gouverneur	eresting	16:12
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crashanddie	RST38h: not sure that works with the "Do no evil" mantra	16:13
gouverneur	crashanddie: who cares	16:13
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* marcus_ wonders if anybody tried Wine for Maemo		16:13
gouverneur	my chi is that bad that cats follow my way	16:13
LuciusMare	Hi, i want to install the easy debian chroot, and the wiki page tells that the image file is 2gb - i am downloading it externally, and the image is only 278 mb?	16:14
FIQ	"Wine for Maemo"	16:14
FIQ	uh, that seems impossible	16:14
gouverneur	LuciusMare: extracted?	16:14
crashanddie	FIQ: I find that wine /before/ Maemo works a lot better	16:14
crashanddie	or after, depending on your schedule	16:14
marcus_	:P	16:14
RST38h	"After a networking error first reported on Wednesday last week caused computers in Chile and the US to come under the control of a system that censors the Internet in China, the 'root DNS server associated with the networking problems has been disconnected from the Internet,' writes Robert McMillan."	16:14
FIQ	luciusmare, it's compressed	16:14
LuciusMare	so much?	16:14
gouverneur	LuciusMare: my device says 2.00GB	16:14
LuciusMare	A terminal program will open and ask you where to place the image file (again, it is a 2 GB file) - that made me think that the image is 2gb	16:15
* RST38h especially like the first half of this paragraph		16:15
LuciusMare	since it talks about a file	16:15
FIQ	that root server were in sweden?	16:15
FIQ	luciusmare, that confused me too first	16:15
RST38h	Apparently yes	16:15
FIQ	but seems as it's compressed	16:15
gouverneur	LuciusMare: after extracting it	16:15
FIQ	it will be 2GB after the extract though (as others state)	16:16
LuciusMare	great	16:16
JLP	I was thinking about making a MeeGo/Maemo game client for Thousand Parsec games (turn based space empire building) for GSoC	16:16
joga	is there a recommended procedure to backup all (relevant parts) of the n900, is using rsync like this ok and can I restore it without problems too? :) http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showpost.php?p=446488&postcount=20	16:17
DocScrutinizer	WinXP in qemu seems has been done before, on maemo, though	16:17
joga	(I don't have -devel enabled but I did install grsync)	16:17
gouverneur	LuciusMare: another pendrive linux is 300MB download with an install script that eats up 2-6GB (user input needed) as it resizes the image after download	16:17
LuciusMare	those compressions... shakes his head	16:18
gouverneur	LuciusMare: ? you need it fast and have 3g available, you would blame those people stupid not to compress properly	16:19
thresh	.фцфн	16:19
thresh	oups	16:19
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: muhaha	16:20
thresh	moroning	16:20
LuciusMare	hurm	16:20
LuciusMare	nevermind...	16:20
gouverneur	thresh: hey hey	16:20
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* marcus_ can't wait till he gets his N900 on monday/tuesday.		16:21
ech0dish	after i use joikuspot, when i try and use my laptop to connect to any other ap it fails and i have to reboot the laptop before i can connect to another ap...	16:21
gouverneur	marcus_: welcome to the jungle ;)	16:21
* joga has been tweaking almost non-stop ever since he got one		16:21
marcus_	:D	16:21
joga	:)	16:21
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: great chinese Fwall is a virus?	16:21
gouverneur	joga: so do I	16:21
gouverneur	DocScrutinizer: have you expected other?	16:22
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FIQ	uhm	16:23
FIQ	what the...	16:23
DocScrutinizer	gouverneur: not really. seems it's easy to do really nasty things in DNS	16:23
FIQ	a query msg came into me in xchat	16:23
FIQ	the balloon popped up	16:23
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DocScrutinizer	tzzz	16:24
FIQ	it stated ":<"	16:24
FIQ	i check it out	16:24
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FIQ	it was meant to be ":<"	16:24
FIQ	so, here's my question:	16:24
FIQ	WHY did it get htmlescaped..?	16:24
Flyser	some stupid firewall?	16:25
DocScrutinizer	haha	16:25
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DocScrutinizer	some stupid string typeconversions back and forth	16:25
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FIQ	it seems reproduceable	16:26
FIQ	xchat fail or maemo fail?	16:26
DocScrutinizer	xchat	16:26
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FIQ	ok	16:27
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FIQ	R3st8h, ^	16:27
DocScrutinizer	what??	16:27
DocScrutinizer	I doubt his highlighting regexp will catch that	16:28
DocScrutinizer	btw I guess a cehteh: ping is more appropriate	16:29
FIQ	RST38h, ^	16:29
FIQ	ah	16:29
FIQ	meh	16:29
C-S-B-N900	marcus_: why have you no n900 now?	16:29
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marcus_	C-S-B-N900: 'Cause I just ordered it :)	16:30
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C-S-B-N900	they are friggin great. but promise me that you check the av jack and fm tx straight away.	16:30
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marcus_	FM TX?	16:31
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marcus_	And how would I check it? (:	16:31
C-S-B-N900	marcus_: fm transmitter	16:31
C-S-B-N900	with a radio and the inbuilt mp3s.	16:31
marcus_	Oh okay, and I just test the AV jack by going over the tv I assume.	16:31
C-S-B-N900	yeah,or headphones, check for a dropped channel.	16:32
C-S-B-N900	only because im on my 3rd.	16:32
marcus_	Srsly? o.o	16:32
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C-S-B-N900	first had a failed fmtx and the second had a dropping channel on the av jack	16:33
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DocScrutinizer	fail to detect headphones is a more common problem for AVcon than missing channel	16:34
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DocScrutinizer	I suggest to check both headset (incl check for mic working), and AV-video	16:34
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C-S-B-N900	docscrutinizer mine was nothing sw. the headphones were working.	16:34
C-S-B-N900	it was the contact to the board.	16:35
DocScrutinizer	yeah. so?	16:35
C-S-B-N900	i needed new hw.	16:35
C-S-B-N900	im just making sure marcus_ checks everything first so he can get it sorted out as easily as possible.	16:36
DocScrutinizer	fail to detect headset is a hw issue	16:36
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C-S-B-N900	true. who mentioned that? im lost :s	16:36
marcus_	C-S-B-N900: I will check it for sure! Thanks for the advice mate.	16:36
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C-S-B-N900	np	16:37
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RST38h	FIQ: What?	16:38
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GAN900	So tired of having to reboot every few days to keep performance up.	16:39
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: cehteh's notification plugin borks on RTF escapes	16:39
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RST38h	GAN: There is a bug tracker for that?	16:40
RST38h	!	16:40
RST38h	Actually there is	16:40
Celesteh	today my country switched to daylight savings time, nut my n900 did not.	16:41
DocScrutinizer	cehteh: <FIQ> the balloon popped up <FIQ> it stated ":<" <FIQ> it was meant to be ":<"	16:41
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DocScrutinizer	cehteh: mine did -> ntpd ;-P	16:42
DocScrutinizer	cehteh: fix your notification crap! ;-D	16:42
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joppu	Stskeeps: what's different with the new hildon-theme-example-stskeeps?	16:43
Kurppa_	GAN900: there will be fixes to that in PR1.2	16:43
Kurppa_	Or so I hear.	16:44
ShadowJK	I wonder what kind of "fixes"...	16:44
Celesteh	is there away to alert my clock that local time is in daylight time?	16:45
ShadowJK	what alerting do you need..	16:45
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Kurppa_	Wish I could say more. It's better than before.. :-)	16:45
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Celesteh	local time is listed as GMT, but it should be GMT+1	16:45
ShadowJK	ah	16:46
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DocScrutinizer	cehteh: install ntpd, or schedule a cmdline event in alarmed :-)	16:46
ShadowJK	well you're BST now aren't you	16:46
ShadowJK	ntpd doesn't care about daylight savings :-)	16:46
GAN900	Maemo - The Mobile Linux version of Windows.	16:46
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Kurppa_	Windows ME	16:46
b-man\|n900	rofl	16:47
ShadowJK	Swap on emmc/sd degrades in performance over time since it's designed to swap on harddrive not SD :)	16:47
* GAN900 notes MeeGo is a super convenient way for Nokia to shunt away community stuff from their own software.		16:47
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: whatever, my N900 time switched from 2 to 3 on the point	16:47
Celesteh	yes, bst. when i go to the world clock, it knows that london is gmt+1, but the local time stubbornly is not	16:47
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ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, yes, mine too, but that's not because of ntpd	16:47
DocScrutinizer	probably not, you're right	16:47
Celesteh	ps aux does not list ntpd	16:48
DocScrutinizer	ooops, sorry cehteh. tab completion error paired with myopia	16:48
ShadowJK	ntpd at most deals with unix time on the system, and unix time doesn't jump back or forward :-)	16:49
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DocScrutinizer	yep	16:49
DocScrutinizer	Celesteh: seems you need to correctly set your timezone	16:49
ShadowJK	All I find is "regional settings" ;p	16:50
Celesteh	so when i disable update automatically, it knows i'm gmt+1, but when i re-enable it, it goes back to gmt +0	16:50
DocScrutinizer	odds are there's a bug setting TZ to GMT/UTC and that one isn't supposed to see any DST	16:51
Celesteh	i think i'm just going to give up on automagical time updates	16:52
ShadowJK	I forget the difference between UTC and GMT... wait.. one has the leap seconds and the other doesn't? And then there's GPS time too, and I don't remember what was different with that either :P	16:52
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Celesteh	thanks fols	16:52
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Ken-Young	ShadowJK, Both UTC and GMT have leap seconds. GPS time does not.	16:53
DocScrutinizer	friggin notice there's "auto update" for time. WHY was <me> bothered to install ntpd??	16:53
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DocScrutinizer	is this a new feature of >1.0, or am I just stupid?	16:54
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, I think it uses time data from GSM, and lots of operators are incompetent, so there's a use case for ntpd as well ;)	16:54
ShadowJK	iirc it was there since 1.0?	16:54
DocScrutinizer	hmmm	16:54
DocScrutinizer	~spank DocScrutinizer	16:55
* haltdef wobbles ShadowJK		16:55
* infobot bends DocScrutinizer over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on DocScrutinizer's pasty white buttocks.		16:55
* DocScrutinizer ponders whether to uninstall ntpd and give "auto update" a try, or just happy along with the perfectly working setup		16:56
nidO	update automatically doesnt work properly for me	16:57
haltdef	you're doing it wrong if you have an n900 and don't mess with it for no reason :D	16:57
DocScrutinizer	k, thanks mate :-)	16:57
nidO	not sure why, but my device just seems to ignore the operator broadcast time entirely	16:58
DocScrutinizer	operator broadcast time is fubar and rotten to the root anyway. Seems every carrier has its own ideas about it	16:59
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DocScrutinizer	at least that's what I recall from OM and FSO tinkering with it	17:00
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DocScrutinizer	and worst of all: your system time might skip unadvertedly while traveling, or when living close to a border	17:01
ShadowJK	"Some time in the 22nd century, two leap seconds will be required every year. The current use of only the leap second opportunities in June and December will be insufficient, and the March and September options will have to be used. In the 25th century, four leap seconds will be required every year, so the current quarterly options will be insufficient. Thereafter there will need to be the possibility of leap seconds at the end of any month. In about two	17:01
ShadowJK	thousand years even that will become insufficient, and there will have to be leap seconds that are not at the end of a month."	17:01
DocScrutinizer	cooooool	17:02
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DocScrutinizer	y3k problem preprogrammed	17:03
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ShadowJK	the table of leapseconds will be megabytes big	17:04
ShadowJK	but then we'll laugh at worrying about measly megabytes	17:04
RST38h	GAN900: bug #6382	17:05
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6382 Device becomes sluggish after several days	17:05
DocScrutinizer	methinks we should tune definition of a second / jiffy, rather than use those nasty leap seconds	17:05
RST38h	GAN900: Raise hell, if you still can	17:05
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DocScrutinizer	ooh shit, scratch that. It'll mess all SI units, all astronomy, and even FM radio dials	17:08
DocScrutinizer	:-P	17:08
ShadowJK	"n the 1970s, it became clear that the clocks participating in TAI (International Atomic Time) were ticking at different rates due to gravitational time dilation, and the combined TAI scale therefore corresponded to an average of the altitudes of the various clocks."	17:08
ShadowJK	time is fuzzy	17:09
DocScrutinizer	time is relative. That's what Einstein tought us	17:09
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SpeedEvil	And the doctor.	17:10
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DocScrutinizer	MOAR gigantic tide powerplants - I want a 30 hours day	17:14
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C-S-B-N900	Celesteh: what country?	17:28
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nidO	C-S-B-N900: he's gone	17:36
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C-S-B-N900	like everything in my life :(	17:43
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C-S-B-N900	in case anyone cared, my phone in UK set it self right.	17:43
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Clickety	mine did as well	17:48
nidO	my time updated properly as well, but it still doesnt maintain the right time broadcast by o2	17:48
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nidO	C-S-B-N900: you seem an outdoors-y type right?	17:49
C-S-B-N900	lol, why? I dont think im that outdoorsy at all.	17:49
nidO	well even if not, any chance of a read + vote here plx? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48497	17:50
C-S-B-N900	where are you based nidO ?	17:51
nidO	its a real pet-hate of mine that "non-developer" companies/organisations decide to "get with the times" by releasing only an iphone app as though the other 83% of smartphones dont exist, trying to change that with the national trust at least	17:51
nidO	im in norwich	17:51
C-S-B-N900	i detest iphone as a result.	17:52
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C-S-B-N900	im down in bucks. we have some nice areas here also.	17:53
nidO	if i can get the national trust to release that app for maemo, and wagamama to do the same with their online ordering app, ill be happy \o/	17:53
RST38h	Ah, the revolt in maemo-developers!	17:54
RST38h	Took a while...longer than I thought	17:54
C-S-B-N900	wagama app would be good, my gf asked me if i could do it on my phone after seeing the iphone ad in the restaurent.	17:54
C-S-B-N900	they should just have good apis.	17:55
nidO	yeah pisses me off every time me and my girlfriend are there looking at the bigass add plastered on every placemat	17:55
C-S-B-N900	then the community can make a far better solution than they would.	17:55
Stskeeps	RST38h: which one?	17:55
nidO	her with her winmo phone, and me with maemo, knowing we still have to use their shitty website to order online :<	17:55
C-S-B-N900	the iphone is clever marketing, as with all apple.	17:55
RST38h	Stskeeps: Khertan decided to fold it and move to his own repo	17:55
nidO	wasnt that a while ago?	17:56
C-S-B-N900	the website is not that bad when the n900 renders it so well.	17:56
C-S-B-N900	nido i voted btw.	17:56
nidO	cheers \o/	17:56
C-S-B-N900	im sorry to asl you, just interested.	17:57
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nidO	hm, well you already have the s and the l now :)	17:58
nidO	and im 25.	17:58
C-S-B-N900	im 26 going on 27, linux/win admin.	17:59
Stskeeps	RST38h: ah, yes	17:59
nidO	as of next week im a purely nix admin, we've had a win2003 server for the past couple of years thats finally being shutdown	17:59
nidO	\o/	17:59
C-S-B-N900	currently unemployed. :(	17:59
C-S-B-N900	kill it.	18:00
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C-S-B-N900	what distro are you rolling?	18:00
C-S-B-N900	you arent using exchange? i like your company.	18:01
nidO	centos and debian lenny	18:01
nidO	our vps nodes run proxmox (openvz) which runs on debian	18:01
RST38h	Stskeeps: What was the breaking point for him, anyway? Something with autobuilder breaking python packages?	18:01
nidO	and no exchance, we're a nix hosting outfit :>	18:02
nidO	exchange*	18:02
C-S-B-N900	cool	18:02
C-S-B-N900	id like to work for your company.	18:02
nidO	if you're still kicking around this channel in a few months, we're likely to have a tech position available :p	18:03
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C-S-B-N900	may i ask why a nix hosting company even had a win box?	18:03
nidO	we bought out another host a couple of years ago, they had several nix boxes and one win machine as they offered accounts on both	18:04
C-S-B-N900	bit too far to commute, but i seriously appreciate the info.	18:04
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nidO	my commute distance is bedroom <> living room	18:04
nidO	about 10 feet ;)	18:04
C-S-B-N900	you work remotely?	18:05
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nidO	yeah, all our staff work from home	18:05
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: seems it's more like the alldays changing requirements to push something into extras	18:05
C-S-B-N900	nice!	18:05
RST38h	Doc: Oh, I can confirm that....	18:05
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C-S-B-N900	you could work from your n900 and save the trip to the living room.	18:05
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: khertan was fed up with that aiui	18:06
nidO	well one particularly cold winter 4-5 years ago I did spend a few weeks working from the laptop in bed for most of the morning	18:06
DocScrutinizer	but I think it's better you ask him :-)	18:06
RST38h	DocS: He is not the first.	18:06
DocScrutinizer	ooh well, he's not here atm	18:06
C-S-B-N900	i want your job nido.	18:06
dmj726_n9001	VDVsx: should students put their ideas in the wiki too?	18:06
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VDVsx	dmj726_n9001, if you want, but if you want discussion, better try the MLs or talk.maemo	18:09
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* DocScrutinizer suspects a conspiration wrt N900 successor. Seems gan9001 and dmj726_n9001 know more than us ordinary mortals :-P		18:10
RST38h	ISO9001?	18:10
DocScrutinizer	LOL	18:10
dmj726_n9001	tmobile and my wifi conspired to bring me a device from the future.	18:11
* DocScrutinizer cackles on ISO9001 audited garage business in Istambul, producing fake Addidas		18:12
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sp3000	someone want to test bug 9744? it's not very labor-intensive ;)	18:23
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9744 Display active while camera lens open and no picture is taken	18:23
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* C-S-B-N900 's fat sausage finger closed irc.		18:53
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ech0dish	someone do something cool	19:07
* haltdef strips		19:07
satmd	if that's cool, it's bad	19:08
satmd	if it was hot, it was good	19:08
haltdef	:<	19:08
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haltdef	stupid dpd not doing anything on weekends	19:09
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LuciusMare	Hi, would anyone mind to lighten up me a few things about easy debian?	19:16
C-S-B-N900	ive not used it but i can try...	19:17
LuciusMare	When it's a chroot, how come that when i run "debian lxde" from the menu that the / is mounted as usual?	19:17
LuciusMare	I mean, i can access all the things, like my maemo home, mydocs... Like only lxde was running, and the easy debian was layered on my rootfs	19:19
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C-S-B-N900	check /etc/mtab maybe they are mounted seperately for convieniance.	19:20
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LuciusMare	oh	19:22
LuciusMare	seems like only /home is mounted, i thought the whole / was mounted	19:23
satmd	bind mounted /home probably	19:23
C-S-B-N900	i guess i maybe helped...	19:25
JakubS_	hello	19:25
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C-S-B-N900	hello	19:26
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JakubS_	while testing n900 wireless i got strange result: ping to router takes 50ms while on laptop (the same network) only 1-2ms. Also when the network is congested ping to 200-500ms (yeah, differences so this high) while on laptop to only 100-150ms	19:28
JakubS_	is this something with my network router, n900 hardware or maybe wireless driver?	19:28
C-S-B-N900	power management i bet	19:29
C-S-B-N900	turn it off and try again.	19:29
JakubS_	how?	19:29
C-S-B-N900	in advanced on your connection settings.	19:29
C-S-B-N900	it will reduce your battery though. ymmv	19:30
* sp3000 knows nothing about networks		19:30
sp3000	but afaiui a common beacon interval is about 300ms	19:30
sp3000	so if your avg ping is less than that, something's probably wrong :)	19:30
JakubS_	C-S-B-N900: thanks	19:31
sp3000	(something being, power management, indeed)	19:31
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sp3000	afaiui laptops generally don't bother since they have comparatively infinite energy to waste	19:32
JakubS_	i am porting video streaming (more like proxying) app to n900 and i am getting very inconsistent speed compared to the laptop. while trying to find the reason i found the problem with latencies.	19:32
C-S-B-N900	sp3000: i wasn't looking too deeply, just reeling off stuff ive seen happen before.	19:32
JakubS_	sp3000: so I can just (I hope it is possible) turn off wifi power management when a stream is being proxied, and turn it on later again	19:32
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C-S-B-N900	JakubS_: you could.	19:33
C-S-B-N900	just check that it is pm first.	19:33
C-S-B-N900	might be your dodgy port lol.	19:34
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JakubS_	very dodgy :-) it is based on qt, so whole port was just recompile and it works	19:34
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* sp3000 wonders if there's a market for gold-plated air filters for improving wifi performance		19:35
sp3000	if it works in hifi it must work in wifi right? :P	19:36
JakubS_	guys selling hifi stuff must make millions	19:36
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DocScrutinizer	beakon not related to pingtime	20:04
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DocScrutinizer	beakon is just used to detect AP	20:04
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Shapeshi1ter	DocScrutinizer: yeah I fixed a major bug; many people couldn't use profile switching and the other script based functions. My mistake was to have a !/bin/bash shebang instead of !/bin/ash D:	20:04
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Shapeshi1ter	that's why it worked for you and me and some others but not for many others	20:05
DocScrutinizer	and to some extent to 'allocate' the channel	20:05
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DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: should be #! /bin/sh anyway	20:05
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: I thought bash was symlinked to ash by default. and why should it be ash?	20:06
Shapeshifter	uhm sh	20:06
DocScrutinizer	as ash isn't any mandatory unix standard, neither is bash	20:07
DocScrutinizer	shell on unix is /bin/sh	20:07
Shapeshifter	but sh sucks. and ash also sucks	20:07
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DocScrutinizer	so what?	20:07
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Shapeshifter	ash doesn't know =~	20:07
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DocScrutinizer	then you need to specify /bin/bash for processor to execute your script	20:07
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Shapeshifter	or rather, ash's test ( [[ ]] )	20:07
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Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: but then I'd need to add bash as a dependency ;) maybe I should just do that.	20:08
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DocScrutinizer	you have to know.	20:08
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DocScrutinizer	I'd not prepend any shebang for execution	20:08
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LuciusMare	Hi, can i set my keyboard so fn+enter=tab, and so?	20:08
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RST38h	The Tentacled One is having diarrhea tonight...	20:09
LuciusMare	huh	20:09
LuciusMare	Hi, can i set my keyboard so fn+enter=tab, and so?	20:09
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LuciusMare	anyone?	20:12
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DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: for your own scripts you just have to decide if you want do standard shellscripts with #! /bin/sh, or you need some special bash functions and use #! /bin/bash. The later creates a dependency for your package quite obviously. You have to know if you like it that way	20:12
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DocScrutinizer	hmm	20:13
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Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: well this was just a stupid mistake anyway. the small scripts alarmed ships with are sh compatible. I'll change it to sh in the next release	20:15
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haltdef_	what's wrong	20:25
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DocScrutinizer	netsplit	20:25
haltdef_	on freenode? nowai	20:25
haltdef_	:>	20:25
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DocScrutinizer	seems infobot is an another branch than me	20:25
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DocScrutinizer	~ping	20:29
apt	~pong	20:29
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DocScrutinizer	lol	20:29
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noobmonk3y	wohooooooo	20:35
noobmonk3y	laptop listed on ebay :P	20:35
noobmonk3y	havn't been on ebay in years!, took me ages!	20:36
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nidO	superquiet here today	20:38
RST38h	death, desolation, plastic forks	20:39
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* noobmonk3y waves		20:40
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DocScrutinizer	netsplit	20:47
DocScrutinizer	*day	20:47
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* Stskeeps glares at rpm		20:48
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Scelt	any estimates 'bout pr 1.2?	20:48
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haltdef_	some time between now and 2020	20:49
haltdef_	yw	20:50
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Scelt	haltdef_: thanks. very helpful!	20:50
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RST38h	Ah. Arkenoi.	20:51
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atiti	hummz	20:53
atiti	would moving /var/cache or /home/user/MyDocs off to the internal memory and symlinking to it cause my os2008 to be stuck in a reboot loop?	20:53
RST38h	yes, and it will rain flying monkeys	20:54
atiti	so i guess thats a no	20:54
RST38h	Stskeeps: BTW, given that Autobuilder has switched to PR1.2, does it mean that any package submitted to it from now on will not run on any of the users' N900s?	20:55
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RST38h	(until PR1.2 is released and they upgrade to it that is)	20:56
Chiku\|dc	PR1.2 is for next week ?	20:57
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nidO	pr1.2 is for sometime soonish	20:57
Chiku\|dc	soonish? today ?	20:57
nidO	...	20:57
* RST38h rereads his question, searching for the spot where he mentioned PR1.2 release date		20:57
Shapeshifter	Chiku\|dc: ask yourself, does it really matter?	20:57
nidO	RST38h you said the word pr1.2, that obviously means you know when its coming.	20:58
nidO	duh	20:58
Ken-Young	Shapeshifter, Yes!	20:58
RST38h	Oh, the new generation of the net users simply reacts to keywords...	20:58
reggna	Hmm.. Does anyone know how to set up the Nokia N900 with a private rsa-key to auto authenticate when using ssh?	20:59
RST38h	all heil the twitter...	20:59
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reggna	When I try it says I have to unlock the private key each time I connect.	20:59
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SpeedEvil	you mean ssh to the n900?	21:00
SpeedEvil	quack.	21:00
Shapeshifter	reggna: mh? but do you mean, a private rsa-key? you just put the pub key of the box your connecting from into the n900s authorized_hosts file	21:00
Shapeshifter	s/but/what/	21:01
apt	Shapeshifter meant: reggna: mh? what do you mean, a private rsa-key? you just put the pub key of the box your connecting from into the n900s authorized_hosts file	21:01
Shapeshifter	*rolleyes	21:01
Shapeshifter	what a useless bot feature	21:01
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Shapeshifter	humans can parse s///	21:01
reggna	SpeedEvil: No, the other way around, connecting from the N900 to a server.	21:02
nidO	so just reverse the process	21:02
reggna	Shapeshifter: Yes, but when I do it says I have to unlock the key each time I try to connect to the server.	21:02
Chiku\|dc	put your private key on your .ssh folder on n900 and pub key on your remote one	21:03
reggna	Googled it found that ssh-agent needs to be running	21:03
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reggna	But it does not work even with ssh-agent wrapping my terminal.	21:04
reggna	ssh-add -l tells me that my key has been added.	21:04
reggna	Butt I still needs to provide password to unlock the key each time I connect.	21:05
reggna	*-s	21:05
atiti	put the public key in the .ssh/authorized_keys file on the server	21:05
atiti	and put the private key in .ssh/ on your nokia	21:06
atiti	its usually called id_dsa or stmg	21:06
reggna	I've done that, and everything works fine when i try it on my laptop (with the same key).	21:06
reggna	Hmm.. Maby should try to generate a new key from the N900..	21:06
atiti	did you try it with -i to specify the private key?	21:07
SpeedEvil	I simpl.y copied my laptops ~/.ssh	21:07
SpeedEvil	and it simply worked	21:07
reggna	atiti: Yes, still got the "Enter passphrase for key '.ssh/id_rsa'"-message	21:08
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atiti	and you didnt specify a passphrase when you created the pub/priv key?	21:09
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RST38h	a1	21:09
reggna	20:07:37 < SpeedEvil> I simpl.y copied my laptops ~/.ssh	21:11
reggna	Pretty much what I did too.	21:11
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reggna	atiti: Sure I did, is it even possible to create a key pair without a passphrase?	21:12
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: humans can also parse s/x/y	21:12
reggna	atiti: Or what do you mean?	21:13
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DocScrutinizer	s/humans/apes/ as well	21:13
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treitter_	is there any container at the top of a HildonTouchSelector such that its contents will move out of view when I scroll the selector (like the action area of a HildonTreeView, as used for the "New message" button at the top of the mail box views in Modest)?	21:13
reggna	atiti: When I try to connect to my server, it tells me to "Enter passphrase for key '/home/user/.ssh/id_rsa'".	21:15
reggna	atiti: I enter the same passphrase I did when creating the key, and I get logged in.	21:15
reggna	atiti: The next time i try to connect, it does the same thing.	21:15
DocScrutinizer	wtf are you able to make up your mind whether to ssh into N900, or from N900 into another server?	21:15
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reggna	Did I say into?	21:16
MiXu-	Hmm. WinSCP send to shell extension is nice with N900 <3	21:16
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DocScrutinizer	nah, but adding some shit to .ssh/authorized_keys on N900 is for ssh'ing IN	21:17
reggna	DocScrutinizer: Ah, sorry.	21:17
DocScrutinizer	and if you created your key to use a passphrase, then it obviously will ask for that passphrase each time you gonna use it	21:18
DocScrutinizer	create a key without passphrase, to get rid of that	21:18
reggna	Ah, think I get it.. The keyrig on my laptop fooled me..	21:20
reggna	DocScrutinizer: Tanks.	21:21
reggna	*h	21:21
reggna	'n	21:21
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Stskeeps	RST38h: no idea, keep in mind extras-devel has a new URL for pr1.2	21:30
Stskeeps	so they won't even see it	21:30
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dottedmag	reggna: better idea is to start ssh-agent once per session (by putting some script to /etc/X11/Xsession.d)	21:34
dottedmag	So it will ask for key only once.	21:34
FIQ	a new url..?	21:34
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FIQ	doesn't seem logical for me	21:34
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FIQ	w/e	21:34
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Jaco2k	can that be the reason why I cannot meet the dependencies for some of the latest updates?	21:36
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Jaco2k	e.g. Tuner	21:36
Jaco2k	something to do with libhildon1 and libpixman-1-0	21:36
reggna	dottedmag: That sounded something like what I was looking for. Thank you. :)	21:37
Jaco2k	it is weird because the updates seem to require an older version from these libraries than the one I already have	21:37
Jaco2k	any tips/ideas?	21:37
dottedmag	reggna: let me know if you find/compile GUI dialog for asking for passphrase, I miss it :)	21:37
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* DocScrutinizer wonders where zenity might have dropped off the table		21:46
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* Stskeeps wonders who invented rpmbuild and thinks he needs a lesson with a baseball bat in developer friendliness		21:49
C-S-B-N900	lol	21:49
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FIQ	hah	21:50
Stskeeps	i like yum/zypper/spec/etc until i got to this piece of shit	21:51
Stskeeps	:P	21:51
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wolf^	Stskeeps, why?	22:01
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Stskeeps	i mean, they have a perfectly sane format for a directory with sources + patches and a .spec..	22:02
Stskeeps	and then the whole BUILD, BUILDROOT, SRPMS, SPECS, SOURCES etc stuff	22:02
wolf^	imho it's better to have things separated than to have everything in one bundle, like in dpkg	22:04
Stskeeps	well yes	22:04
Stskeeps	but when a source rpm is a flat directory structure, why doesn't rpmbuild take a nice directory with a spec in it? :P	22:05
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Stskeeps	(i'm not pro or con any certain formats, i'm trying to do something :P)	22:05
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wolf^	so you have problem with SPECS and SOURCES separation	22:06
wolf^	I'm not sure, but I think we have this fixed in pld	22:06
Stskeeps	right, or rather, the need to set up a bunch of directories	22:06
Stskeeps	and not simply abstracting this way	22:07
Stskeeps	away	22:07
wolf^	rpm --init-build-tree or something	22:07
Stskeeps	instead of a simple "here's a spec, please build it, resolve Source0/ etc using the directory the spec is in"	22:08
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Stskeeps	wolf^: so, you're good with rpms and such? got some time to give me feedback on some things?	22:10
wolf^	in pld we have "builder" script	22:10
wolf^	it automates fetching specs, patches from cvs, and sources from external ftp	22:10
Stskeeps	:nod:	22:10
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pronto	:shake:	22:10
wolf^	Stskeeps, yes, I'm using it, ask away	22:11
Stskeeps	working on http://wiki.meego.com/User:Stskeeps/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment currently	22:11
Stskeeps	eventually it would hopefully be down to a 'osc build' instead of the rpmbuild insanity	22:11
RST38h	Stskeeps: This does not look very easy	22:11
Stskeeps	RST38h: i don't like it either	22:12
ptl	cool	22:12
ptl	my test worked	22:12
ptl	I just got back from the test.	22:12
Stskeeps	what test? :P	22:12
ptl	to get laid by using the N900	22:12
Stskeeps	excellent	22:12
Ken-Young	How'd that work out?	22:12
* RST38h can see it immediately that he will not be able to set this up on Ubuntu		22:13
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Stskeeps	RST38h: which parts are blocking?	22:13
ptl	went to some disco, talked to some girl, impressed her with some gimmicks (the FM transmissor, her cellphone had FM radio) - accelerometer, photos, I was kind of drunk, don't remember exactly what I showed her	22:13
Stskeeps	RST38h: actually, mic2 is a big one that might cause issues..	22:14
wolf^	Stskeeps, "rpmbuild --install-build-tree" prepares the build directory	22:15
wolf^	Stskeeps, with default rpm scripts it's always ~/rpm	22:15
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Stskeeps	RST38h: either way, this isn't how things should be like :P	22:16
Stskeeps	wolf^: no such option in my rpmbuild for some reason	22:16
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wolf^	% rpm --version	22:16
wolf^	RPM version 4.4.9	22:16
Stskeeps	hrm :P	22:17
MohammadAG	RPM?	22:17
MohammadAG	shouldn't that be in #MeeGo?	22:17
wolf^	Stskeeps, I think you should be able to just do rpm -i blah.srpm and have spec + patches + sources in SPECS and SOURCES automatically	22:17
wolf^	but I don't use srpms, so I'm not sure	22:17
Stskeeps	MohammadAG: discussion started here, so shush :P	22:18
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tools_	hi.. what's the easiest way to sync kaddressbooks contacts (kde 4.3) with the n900?	22:18
wolf^	Stskeeps, I wouldn't redefine _topdir, and just kept everything in ~/rpm	22:18
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Stskeeps	mmk	22:19
Stskeeps	ta	22:19
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: (from dmesg) [41874.176757] wlan0: roaming signal from driver, sending LOWSIGNAL	22:19
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Scelt	ptl: hopefully not your private parts. most likely or your hope is gone if you did that	22:20
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, sorry :P	22:20
SpeedEvil	hmm	22:20
wolf^	Stskeeps, assuming you are doing build based on srpm, you may want to pass -bb (build binary) to rpmbuild, instead of -ba (build all), which also creates srpm	22:20
Scelt	ptl: or -> all	22:20
Stskeeps	wolf^: thanks, will do some rewriting	22:20
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: hmm?	22:20
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SpeedEvil	yes	22:21
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: a lil more enthusiasm please :-P	22:21
* SpeedEvil reboots.		22:21
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ptl	Scelt: but the test went ok, it was successful. :)	22:23
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ptl	http://patola.org/leticia1.jpg is the "data" I used for this test	22:23
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N900evil	DocScrutinizer, I reserve enthusiasm for days I have moved under 2 tons of soil..	22:25
Stskeeps	not bad	22:25
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ptl	I've just seen now that the thread for this issue has been deleted	22:26
ptl	so I can post the results of my test.	22:26
ptl	too bad	22:26
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ptl	*so I can't	22:26
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DocScrutinizer	heh, there's a way to delete tmo threads? PLEASE, make that available to everybody XP	22:31
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dmj726_n9001	Wouls anyone find a document reader useful for the n900?	22:33
dmj726_n9001	*would	22:33
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C-S-B-N900	dmj726_n900: like word/odf etc?	22:34
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* SpeedEvil reads books using fbreader		22:35
* DocScrutinizer just skimmed about 40 posts in a thread on "fancy bits on N900" or somesuch crap, to find the ONE post that's not about well documented-in-wiki shortcuts. That one was lshal\|grep percent - - <facepalm>		22:35
dmj726_n9001	no, like you take a photo, and it reads the document (ocr, formatting, and text to speech)	22:35
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C-S-B-N900	a bit like a scanner...mmm.	22:36
dmj726_n9001	yep	22:36
ptl	I read book using FBReader and evince	22:36
C-S-B-N900	i dont know how often i have printed media i cant get digital.	22:36
ptl	evince is great for reading pdfs and has kinetic scrolling	22:37
DocScrutinizer	phototranslate	22:37
ptl	oh	22:37
C-S-B-N900	see docscrutinizer	22:37
dmj726_n9001	A big part of the audience would be blind users	22:37
C-S-B-N900	thats the only use for ocr.	22:37
C-S-B-N900	for me.	22:37
DocScrutinizer	wrecks flashlight	22:37
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* C-S-B-N900 wrecks fleshlight		22:38
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dmj726_n9001	but I'm gauging how much sighted people would find this useful.	22:39
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dmj726_n9001	I can think of a few occasions I would have liked to ocr photos.	22:39
C-S-B-N900	yeah, it would be novel for a few situations	22:39
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dmj726_n9001	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48548	22:43
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GAN900	When the hell does the election end?	22:45
Stskeeps	good question	22:47
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RST38h	GAN: Are you in? =)	22:47
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GAN900	23:59 UTC March 29th, I think.	22:49
GAN900	But I have no idea.	22:49
GAN900	Jaffa?	22:49
Stskeeps	not 23:39 yet for sure :P	22:50
Stskeeps	er, 59	22:50
GAN900	Yeah, that I realize. :P	22:50
GAN900	MWKN	22:50
Jaffa	GAN900: Yeah?	22:51
Jaffa	GAN900: Oh. Hmm.	22:52
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Jaffa	Well, it started 00:00 on Wednesday, so it'll finish 23:59 on Tuesday	22:52
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Jaffa	GAN900: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_Q1_2010 agrees	22:53
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kamui	sup pimps	23:06
kamui	dmj726_n900,	23:06
kamui	how would you like to test my latest blender build	23:06
kamui	I have the lag down in software to under 1 second	23:06
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pupnik	cool	23:08
SpeedEvil	kamui, neat	23:08
pupnik	but that is slow	23:08
kamui	its still slow pupnik	23:08
kamui	yes	23:08
kamui	but	23:08
kamui	it was over 2 seconds before	23:09
kamui	its probably running around 5-8 fps now	23:09
kamui	which is very usable	23:09
kamui	Im still working on the wrapper, but I think at this point the other gles wrappers might be the way to go	23:09
kamui	I would need to completely redo my build environment though, so I've been lazy about doing as much	23:10
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Jaffa	GAN900: Going to take a small break from fleshing out the issue to deal with a couple of site bugs	23:10
kamui	thinking about setting up a new virtual build environemnt in 7 instead of tainting my debian box further	23:10
GAN900	Jaffa, going to take a small break to eat, momentarily. :P	23:10
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dmj726_n9001	kamui 5-8 fps for blender, not too bad.	23:14
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haltdef_	kamui, n900 arriving tomorrow :>	23:18
pupnik	nice kamui :)	23:19
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C-S-B-N900	haltdef_: woot!	23:24
haltdef_	I'm hoping I'll be blown away	23:25
dmj726_n900	What's the best way to get the open windows?	23:25
haltdef_	coming from an xperia x1, always had windows mobile since I switched from palm OS in 2003 :P	23:25
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C-S-B-N900	open windows?	23:26
dmj726_n900	yes, to make an alternate task switcher	23:27
C-S-B-N900	haltdef_: i was blown away, but helps if you are a linux hacker	23:27
haltdef_	I don't like linux on the desktop but I am familiar with it	23:27
haltdef_	the idea of linux in my pocket though .. moist	23:28
dmj726_n900	Yes, anyone who is a fan of desktop linux will love the n900.	23:28
haltdef_	not android, proper linux :P	23:28
dmj726_n900	that's what maemo is.	23:28
C-S-B-N900	why dont you like linux on the desktop	23:28
C-S-B-N900	its like a desktop pc in your pocket.	23:28
haltdef_	windows just works, linux needed hackery to get the simplest of things working	23:29
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C-S-B-N900	it really doesn't.	23:29
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C-S-B-N900	but heck	23:29
haltdef_	this was a few years ago now	23:29
C-S-B-N900	point in hand	23:29
dmj726_n900	linux on the desktop is very different than a few years ago.	23:30
haltdef_	also I enjoy haxing at video files, all of the tools are on windows :p	23:30
C-S-B-N900	youd be plesently surprised with ubuntu these days	23:30
dmj726_n900	For games and video editing windows has better application availability	23:30
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dmj726_n900	everything else, ubuntu is quite capable	23:31
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C-S-B-N900	and even video editing ubuntu is now supplying a solution.	23:31
dmj726_n900	on a side note: n900 + microsd = liveusb	23:31
Shapeshifter	though when you know linux, ubuntu is overly annoying. and it's slow. and the only reason most stuff "just works" is because the whole universe is pulled in as a dependency when installing something.	23:32
dmj726_n900	It's a pretty basic editor, but not broken.	23:32
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haltdef_	I probably won't be using my microsd, that'll be strange	23:32
haltdef_	all devices I've owned so far have had tiny amounts of internal storage	23:32
C-S-B-N900	with 32gb onbaord, you dont need to.	23:33
haltdef_	mm	23:33
haltdef_	I can't fill 8GB :P	23:33
Shapeshifter	I can hardly fill 8gb on my laptop	23:33
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dmj726_n900	I can, but you have to leave the camera on for an hour at a time.	23:33
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haltdef_	heh	23:34
grishnav	any way to hit meta in xterm on the n900?	23:34
C-S-B-N900	i'm debating packing mine with audio and video.	23:34
haltdef_	yea that's the plan	23:35
dmj726_n900	pack it with av stuff, it's handy	23:35
DocScrutinizer	Ubuntu: http://xkcd.com/424/	23:35
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C-S-B-N900	playing vids without renecoding them to a tv	23:36
C-S-B-N900	is awesome	23:36
haltdef_	I'm looking forward to that, my x1 just can't do that	23:36
haltdef_	which is retarded because my much older htc universal can	23:36
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dmj726_n900	n900 can be used as a decently competent media center pc.	23:37
dmj726_n900	just avoid HD video and you'll be fine.	23:38
Shapeshifter	grishnav: esc often does meta	23:38
Shapeshifter	grishnav: the onscreen esc	23:38
C-S-B-N900	hd video lol, even the netbook falls at that hurdle.	23:39
grishnav	Shapeshifter: shoulda been more specific... any way to hold it down while pressing a number? :P	23:39
grishnav	Shapeshifter: I'm trying to switch windows in irssi without doing /window <x>	23:39
Shapeshifter	grishnav: esc works	23:39
Shapeshifter	grishnav: it's finger acrobatics but it works	23:39
grishnav	Shapeshifter: cant seem to get it to...	23:40
C-S-B-N900	xchat uses the volume keys to move between windows	23:40
Shapeshifter	grishnav: actually, do this:	23:40
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grishnav	C-S-B-N900: fuck yeah	23:40
Shapeshifter	grishnav: hit esc (and release), then hit the number	23:40
Shapeshifter	grishnav: tried it just now and it works. doesn't work if you keep esc pressed ;)	23:41
grishnav	Shapeshifter: that works too. thanks!	23:41
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SpeedEvil	C-S-B-N900, or shifted numbers. (with my bindings)	23:41
C-S-B-N900	ooooh. :)	23:41
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SpeedEvil	C-S-B-N900, annoyingly - symbol - foo can't be bound.	23:43
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