IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-03-04

SpeedEvil	But it comes with source.	00:00
Arif_	the battery works pretty well though =P	00:00
villager	hmm, after reboot, hildon-home seems to have sort of hung... is using lots of cpu, and shows none of my widgets, though I can switch between desktops (the wallpaper moves)... anyone seen that? or know how to fix?	00:01
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Arif_	reboot again?	00:02
villager	tried that	00:02
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villager	guess another time can't hurt	00:03
Arif_	delete everything from the desktop?	00:03
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FredrIQ	you cannot change username in maemo i guess? :P	00:05
FredrIQ	would be nice to change it to... well, something more personally than "user", even if it isn't the most important thing or something	00:06
villager	Arif_: would rather think of a better solution	00:06
cehteh	you may try to set up a second user account with the same uid .. and report how it works :)	00:06
Arif_	villager, it's that personalised? :P	00:07
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villager	Arif_: sure	00:07
mgj	So i'm an idiot. I simply cannot fathom how to get root on the Nokia N810. Any tips? Found some site telling me to install ssh-server and allowing root logins, but that doesn't help me much when i cant install ssh-server without root	00:07
villager	these widgets used to work, no reason they shouldn't continue to somehow	00:07
villager	hmm, perhaps it's omweather, could try removing that... if I can figure out where it's supposed to be without seeing any widgets	00:08
villager	nah, not even the X to delete it is showing up	00:09
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SpeedEvil	I got off stuff happening with widgets once.	00:09
SpeedEvil	eventually Iu uninstalled and reinstalled them all, and it worked	00:10
SpeedEvil	Also - try a sw update	00:10
villager	as in going to app manager to uninstall?	00:10
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SpeedEvil	yes	00:11
FredrIQ	hm	00:11
FredrIQ	i love the updater in maemo	00:11
villager	well, my sw is up-to-date, but I can try removing omweather	00:11
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* SpeedEvil hugs infobot.		00:11
villager	but I'm using widgets I probably can't uninstall, such as rss reader and calendar	00:12
FredrIQ	in my previous phone (P1i), i needed to set up an usb connection, wait for the firmware upgrade to proceed (could take hours), in maemo, it's like updating a normal app, and it goes really fast too (5min)	00:12
villager	hmm, app manager is really slow when hildon-home is eating all the cpu	00:13
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arachnist	FredrIQ: most of the phones on the market can't do OTA upgrades	00:14
FredrIQ	i know. :p	00:14
arachnist	FredrIQ: i remember my old se k800i could, though	00:14
FredrIQ	hm, btw, about extras-devel, what is so "DON'T ACTIVATE IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DO" with it? the worst thing that can happen is that you run out of space in root	00:14
arachnist	FredrIQ: which is a bad thing	00:15
Stskeeps	or it can kill you	00:15
arachnist	FredrIQ: n900 can have trouble booting when / is full	00:15
Arif_	all S60 phones from the last few years have OTA updating o.O	00:15
FredrIQ	hm, ok	00:15
arachnist	Arif_: winmo can't, iphone can't, android can't	00:16
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Arif_	eyephone can't do anything without a cable ;(	00:16
arachnist	anyway, i'm off	00:16
ShadowJK	FredrIQ, if you want I couod upload an app to -devel that frees up more than 100 megs on rootfs	00:17
Arif_	lol	00:17
Arif_	"rm -rf *"	00:18
Arif_	?	00:18
FredrIQ	heh	00:18
FredrIQ	sudo gainroot first. ;)	00:18
GeneralAntilles	FredrIQ, possibly it can brick your device. :)	00:18
Arif_	that'll make the program too big	00:18
Arif_	;(	00:18
FredrIQ	but, rm -rf * will do nothing with the rootfs without gainroot	00:18
ShadowJK	yep, or a suid binary that does rm -rf /	00:19
Arif_	maybe it'll replace your bootloader with hello kitty pictures	00:19
villager	hmm, omweather wasn't it	00:19
FredrIQ	heh	00:19
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FredrIQ	hm, how does easydebian work, does it boot an alternate os virtually or what?	00:20
villager	it's a chroot	00:20
Arif_	no idea, but it has a word processor that takes 7 hours to start up	00:20
FredrIQ	lol	00:20
FredrIQ	idd	00:21
FredrIQ	tried openoffice one time	00:21
FredrIQ	it took like 10 minutes just booting	00:21
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FredrIQ	and maked the whole OS lag	00:21
FredrIQ	(yay my english)	00:21
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jon1012	hi	00:21
jon1012	what is the state of qml in maemo ?	00:22
* Arif_ wants quickoffice on Moomo		00:22
jon1012	I mean, I have an existing app with gtk	00:22
FredrIQ	quickoffice...	00:22
jon1012	and want to have it with qt... is QML a good way ?	00:22
FredrIQ	KOffice will work fine, i guess	00:22
FredrIQ	and have more features	00:22
odin_	this Qt 4.5 and 4.6, is AT the _ONLY_ ABI being changed/broken ?	00:22
Arif_	dunno, it worked great on N95	00:22
odin_	and can some apps use Qt 4.5 and some Qt4.6 at the same time ? i.e. is there any shared data areas thats incompatible?	00:23
FredrIQ	anyway	00:24
odin_	can Qt 4.5 be compiled and distributed in /opt (as an optional install) ? for the PR 1.2 release?	00:24
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wizkoder	Want to run my first compiled program with scratchbox. And I get this. "QGtkStyle cannot be used together with the GTK_Qt engine."	00:24
FredrIQ	if i plays with extras-devel, i guess i would just have to df -h sometimes so it doesn't get problematic near 100%	00:25
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villager	wonder how I can remove widgets when the hildon-home doesn't show them in the desktop editor mode?	00:25
GeneralAntilles	lardman, muahaha!	00:26
lardman	evening chaps	00:26
GeneralAntilles	We're free of your tyranny!	00:26
lardman	hey GeneralAntilles	00:26
* FredrIQ is going to change computer-->phone		00:26
lardman	why's that? Have I left the front page?!	00:26
FredrIQ	7run shutdown.exe -s -t 0	00:26
FredrIQ	yay my shift key	00:26
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GeneralAntilles	bug #9351	00:26
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9351 Random members not so random	00:26
lardman	damn!	00:27
lardman	I was getting used to it ;)	00:27
SpeedEvil	lol.	00:27
GeneralAntilles	A $100 donation to X-Fade's "I need a new suit" fund may further your ends, though. :P	00:27
* SpeedEvil passes X-Fade the 34 of clubs.		00:28
lardman	:)	00:29
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* lardman prepares to do battle with QImage and QPixmap		00:30
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NarNia	Salut quelqun peut me dire ou il et le salon francais	00:33
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FIQ	yay xchat	00:33
lardman	Je ne sais pas si il y a un	00:33
FIQ	hm	00:34
lardman	FIQ: yes, that was(n't) aimed at you ;)	00:34
NarNia	lardman tu parle francais ?	00:34
lardman	un peu	00:34
FIQ	whoever that is the xchat port author, the nicklist has minor problems with big font size	00:34
NarNia	Ces as un tchat francophone ici	00:34
NarNia	?	00:34
FIQ	(i prefer 20, easier to read for me)	00:35
Lumpio-	NarNia: Could you speak English? >_>	00:35
NarNia	Lumpio- Moi parler francais	00:36
congerro	can i use clutter in maemo5? there is libclutter on the phone but no -dev	00:36
Lumpio-	NarNia: I cannot understand a word.	00:36
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NarNia	Lumpio- quoi ?	00:36
dregin	hi hi	00:36
Lumpio-	NarNia: English! Do you speak it!	00:37
NarNia	Lumpio- toi tes une sale merde comme tes pas francais tu comprend que dalle	00:37
NarNia	tg	00:37
GeneralAntilles	Lumpio-, this isn't Pulp Fiction.	00:37
tg	me?	00:37
NarNia	Mdr	00:37
Lumpio-	NarNia: Meeerde!	00:37
dregin	rabble	00:37
NarNia	tg nan ta gule	00:37
tg	ENOPARSE	00:37
Lumpio-	sigh French people are probably the worst @refusing to learn English	00:37
NarNia	Lumpio- quoi	00:37
NarNia	tu me comprend ,	00:37
Lumpio-	je tu non comprend	00:38
Lumpio-	si?	00:38
dregin	what's the craic with catorise? I've installed it and it doesn't seem to have done anything....	00:38
NarNia	BADE DE SALE RACE	00:38
GeneralAntilles	dregin, it should've rearranged your applications menu.	00:38
NarNia	allez vous faire enculer	00:38
dregin	GeneralAntilles: I assumed as much. Everything's exactly the same as it was before :\	00:38
GeneralAntilles	dregin, hum, I wonder.	00:38
GeneralAntilles	dregin, restart?	00:38
Lumpio-	sacre bleu!	00:39
dregin	was thinking that myself	00:39
GeneralAntilles	dregin, also try installing something else.	00:39
GeneralAntilles	dregin, though I can't imagine what's up.	00:39
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dregin	k	00:39
dregin	what shell comes with maemo by default?	00:39
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dregin	I'm looking for something similar to .zshrc/.bashrc to put alias' into...	00:39
villager	looks like the rss reader was the problem	00:39
GeneralAntilles	dregin, Busybox	00:40
dregin	ah yus I noticed that when I launched the terminal	00:40
dregin	dur :)	00:40
GeneralAntilles	dregin, bash may be available in the repos.	00:41
GeneralAntilles	dregin, not sure what the status is on Fremantle, though.	00:41
dregin	I'm quite happy to use busybox if I can get some sort of config file	00:41
GeneralAntilles	.profile?	00:41
dregin	hmmm	00:41
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dregin	never associated that with shell specific stuff	00:41
NarNia	dregin arsehole	00:42
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dregin	...	00:42
congerro	NarNia: ta 12 ans ou qoi?	00:42
GeneralAntilles	NarNia, unprovoked attacks are not appreciated.	00:42
NarNia	congerro a bah tes francais toi	00:43
NarNia	je comprend que dalle	00:43
dregin	shit troll is shit	00:43
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NarNia	Khertan tes francais ?	00:44
NarNia	congerro tes un francais ?	00:44
crashanddie	NarNia: les apostrophes ne sont pas interdites sur ce channel, merci	00:44
crashanddie	NarNia: et merci de parler anglais, le channel est anglais	00:44
NarNia	crashanddie In bah ces de la merde	00:44
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NarNia	ya pas un salon francais	00:45
NarNia	stp	00:45
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*** NarNia was kicked by crashanddie (au revoir, bonne journee)		00:45
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crashanddie	I'll handle it in private	00:45
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lardman	crashanddie: good stuff, am reaching the end of my vast knowledge of French! :)	00:46
lardman	crashanddie: and hi :)	00:46
fnordianslip	my IRC client makes a gunshot noise when you kick people and it always scares the shit out of me :)	00:46
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GeneralAntilles	fnordianslip, I turned off all of the varied sound effects Adium tends to spit out.	00:46
fnordianslip	I'm using Colloquy on my mac	00:46
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GAN900	I recommend the Adium beta for IRC	00:47
GAN900	faster and much less buggy than Colloquy	00:47
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lardman	hmm, why does QImage require input data to be 32bit aligned	00:47
lardman	that's rather annyoying	00:47
fnordianslip	turning the sounds off might be a good idea, but it breaks the monotony to find myself hiding under the table occasionally	00:47
GAN900	yMous is a good group chat theme.	00:48
GAN900	Hehe	00:48
GAN900	I had to after too many damn Europeans woke me up highlighting me at 4 in the morning. ;)	00:48
fnordianslip	bah. only a lightweight would be asleep at 4am	00:48
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crashanddie	FYI, the guy doesn't know what Freenode is, just wanted to find a french channel to talk. He found	00:50
lardman	ah fair enough	00:50
crashanddie	#ubuntu-fr but that mustn't have lasted long, I told him to use alis	00:51
* fnordianslip wishes he had the foresight to include an enumerated message type for "FFS, do something right for a change" in a network comms protocol for a distributed system		00:51
crashanddie	anyway, late for work	00:51
lardman	cu :)	00:51
trem	nite all, sweet dreams	00:51
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles & GAN900: you plonker, I'll never get that fucking 40d	00:52
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, that's because usuk.	00:52
crashanddie	no, that's because you made me bid on an auction I didn't need in the first place	00:52
crashanddie	I now I have neither the money, nor the camera	00:52
GeneralAntilles	Haha	00:52
crashanddie	I reported the guy to ebay for not having a valid phone number in his profile, and the only thing I got back was a "Please complete this survey to tell us what you think of customer service"	00:53
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, the waiting just makes the arrival so much sweeter. :D	00:53
crashanddie	there won't be any arrival	00:54
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crashanddie	the guy didn't think he'd sell it so low, so now he ignores me and waits for me to cancel the tranaction	00:54
crashanddie	or he found a dofus who bought it from him for twice the price	00:54
lardman	what did you buy?	00:54
crashanddie	camera	00:54
crashanddie	canon 40d, body	00:54
lardman	ok	00:54
* GeneralAntilles contemplates making pasta for dinner		00:55
lardman	get the roller out	00:55
crashanddie	anyway, 5 minutes till workday starts, and I haven't gotten out of bed yet	00:55
crashanddie	'later	00:55
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lardman	why is C++ so bloody picky about signedness?	01:01
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lardman	and what does this mean?: error: no matching function for call to 'QImage::fromData(const uchar*&, int, QImage::Format&)'	01:02
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n00bmonk3y	w00000000000psicles	01:08
* n00bmonk3y spammed extras-devel again :D		01:08
n00bmonk3y	lcuk awake?	01:09
* n00bmonk3y prods lcuk		01:09
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fnordianslip	lardman, i guess you are passing the wrong types in, or they aren't consts when they should be	01:10
lardman	that *& business is confusing	01:11
lardman	sorted now though thanks, last argument needed to be cast	01:11
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wormsxulla	rapsys_: les fai te dictent une loi économique, c'est bien plus pervers. et je ne les vois pas trop s'élever quand on leur demande d'espionner leurs clients	01:12
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wormsxulla	oops, wrong channel, sorry	01:12
fnordianslip	well, the error is suggesting that you are trying to pass in a reference to a pointer, but that no method is defined that accepts that set of actual parameters. dunno QT, though, so can't offer specific help	01:12
lardman	reference to a pointer, hmm, I was passing a "const uchar *"	01:13
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lardman	what is a reference to a pointer for that matter? :)	01:13
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* n00bmonk3y blinks		01:14
fnordianslip	good question	01:14
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fnordianslip	especially when it is a const too	01:14
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lardman	ah well, I just cast it to a const uchar * and it seemed happy, very odd	01:15
fnordianslip	is it an input or an output of the method?	01:15
lardman	input to the method	01:15
fnordianslip	not a buffer to be filled, or similar	01:15
lardman	filled buffer to be passed in	01:15
fnordianslip	oh, yeah, fromData suggests that. d'oh!	01:16
lardman	:)	01:16
lardman	I don;t think it likes my constness anyway	01:17
fnordianslip	const_cast ftw	01:17
lardman	so I'll fill it pixel by pixel instead and hope that works	01:17
Mousey	HAIL ERIS	01:17
fnordianslip	indeedy. plenty of discord around me today	01:17
* fnordianslip is glad i built ddate for my n900		01:18
fnordianslip	now my n900 is equipped to tell me that: "Today is Boomtime,the 62nd day of Chaos in the YOLD 3176"	01:21
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sar3th	for installing in scratchbox, i shoudl ./configure --prefix=/scratchbox, righto?	01:21
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lardman	sar3th: probably not	01:22
lardman	sar3th: if you're installing from within sb, then just use the normal prefix as it sees its own fs	01:22
fnordianslip	most certainly not, probably	01:22
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ptl	fnordianslip: show it in a widget	01:33
ptl	there's some program that shows the results of command in widgets	01:33
fnordianslip	ptl: DesktopCommandWidget ftw :)	01:34
ptl	yes!!	01:34
fnordianslip	ptl, do ya want a copy of the ddate bin i built?	01:34
ptl	the bad thing about ddate is that it is not internationalized	01:34
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fnordianslip	lol	01:35
ptl	well, at least it is not translated to my language	01:35
ptl	fnordianslip: no... thanks, I might use it as an exercise for building things in scratchbox. :)	01:35
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fnordianslip	what is boomtime in your language?	01:35
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lardman	anyone used QImage::setPixel before?	01:35
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ptl	Good question. My language is brazilian portuguese. I think I'd translate it as "hora do estouro" or "era do um".	01:36
ptl	*"era do bum"	01:36
fnordianslip	it doesn't have the same kinda of ring to it :)	01:36
sar3th	lardman: so ./configure shoudl be enough?	01:37
ptl	surely doesn't	01:37
ptl	many things are fnord lost in translation.	01:37
lardman	sar3th: yep	01:37
sar3th	thanks	01:37
lardman	np	01:37
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sar3th	i still have a hard time getting used to scratchbox	01:37
ptl	there's an old saying that says "all your base are belong to us !!" and it has everything to do with this case.	01:38
lardman	join the club! :)	01:38
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fnordianslip	ptl, is there a translation of Principia Discordia document either?	01:38
ptl	sar3th: scratchbox 1 or scratchbox 2?	01:38
Proteous	launch every zig for great justice	01:38
ljp	i still have a hard time getting used to scratchbox and I have used it since the n770 came out	01:38
ptl	fnordianslip: yes, but these times/dates are untranslated	01:38
sar3th	ptl: ...	01:38
sar3th	heck if i know	01:38
Mandator	Would anybody here mind to help me with the wiki ?	01:38
ptl	sar3th: there are two completely different scratchboxes, and I confused them in the beginning. I could swear I was using scratchbox 2 but I was actually using Scratchbox 1.	01:39
sar3th	howtotell?	01:39
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ptl	well, they are completely different. But don't ask me to remember the differences, I just erased it from my memory, I guess. :P	01:40
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ptl	actually I never learned to use scratchbox 2, i just had a glimpse about its commands and then realized I was using sb 1.	01:41
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fnordianslip	ptl: check this out. i was howling :) http://forums.devshed.com/database-management-46/ddate-discordian-date-problems-321852.html	01:45
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fnordianslip	what kind of sick coder used the discordian calendar in a database	01:48
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n00bmonk3y	lol	01:48
Lumpio-	I laughed at the bug report where someone said ddate should be moved because some users might have "more traditional values"	01:48
Lumpio-	What an idiot.	01:48
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fnordianslip	:)	01:49
crashanddie	mode #maemo +b	01:49
crashanddie	woops	01:49
fnordianslip	crashanddie: does that mean we have to talk in binary now?	01:49
n00bmonk3y	that is pretty funny	01:50
Wizzup	Has anyone used wpa_supplicant on n900 before?	01:50
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Wizzup	I can get it to connect to my home network, but I somehow don't seem to be able to actually make the phone use the interface	01:50
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crashanddie	Freenode seriously fails sometimes	01:51
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* n00bmonk3y nods		01:53
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crashanddie	wtf	01:54
crashanddie	-ChanServ- You are not authorized to perform this operation. :(	01:55
n00bmonk3y	lols	01:58
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n00bmonk3y	did you try and bend chanserv over again? ;)	01:58
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lardman	~lart QImage for being really bloody crap	01:59
* infobot takes a big bite out of QImage's jugular vein for being really bloody crap		01:59
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lardman	full of handy utility classes my arse	02:00
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n00bmonk3y	:)	02:01
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fnordianslip	its probably a bazillian times better than using MFC though	02:02
lardman	no doubt, but would be faster to write this in asm	02:02
fnordianslip	my favourite instruction is EIEIO	02:03
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lardman	nothing to do with a farm ;)	02:04
fnordianslip	they must have had the song in mind	02:04
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FIQ	the only thing i miss with the N900 is a N64 emulator	02:05
FIQ	else than that, awesome	02:05
FIQ	anyway	02:05
Wizzup	So if noone uses wpa_supplicant, how do you guys connect to PEAP wireless networks?	02:06
FIQ	MHeiGB18030C-Medium Light 20	02:06
* timeless_mbp looks around		02:06
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* n00bmonk3y blinks		02:10
lardman	hmm, what is up with the qt-maemo channel, tumbleweeds gallore	02:10
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n00bmonk3y	no idea, never been in there :P	02:14
fnordianslip	n00bmonk3y, chav'glish, eh?	02:15
lardman	just a bit quiet when I want to ask some questions	02:15
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* Wizzup wonders what nokia's reasoning was when they made their own wifi stuff rather than using wpa_supplicant		02:17
Wizzup	Normally I wouldn't mind, but it simply doesn't work	02:17
lardman	will wonders never cease! it works!	02:17
lardman	it's alive!!	02:17
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n00bmonk3y	lol fnord	02:22
n00bmonk3y	yeah :)	02:22
n00bmonk3y	sorry too many windows open	02:22
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Wizzup	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1635 Ah... /me waits impatientienly for next update	02:27
povbot	Bug 1635: Eduroam (EAP-TTLS+PAP) WiFi auth	02:27
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marmoute	ha eduroam	02:40
lardman	night all	02:40
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lcuk	n00bmonk3y, i crashed with last nights again	02:40
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Wizzup	eduroam is very useful	02:44
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Askani	Hello	03:52
Askani	can someone explain to me all the meebo fuzz?	03:52
maher	anyone good with fcron? I' having problems getting it to run /etc/cron.daily/*	03:52
crashanddie	Askani: meego?	03:53
Askani	yep	03:53
Askani	thats it	03:53
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Askani	so?	03:54
GeneralAntilles	More specific question?	03:54
crashanddie	Askani: Intel and Nokia have decided to merge forces and bring a new platform to the world. MeeGo will be taking the better parts of Maemo and Moblin to create a platform that will work seamlessly on phones, mobile devices, netbooks... <insert anything else here>	03:54
maher	Askani: suppose you'd heard you were meant to have a smartphone stragey, but were completely overcome by corporate confusion....	03:54
Askani	just to be sure	03:55
Askani	I mean, Nokia makes us believe that N97 would be great	03:55
Askani	and it isnt	03:55
Askani	really bad piece of technology	03:55
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Askani	and two months later, boom N900	03:56
maher	Askani: when did a company ever make anything and not tell you it was great?	03:56
Askani	Maemo this, maemo that	03:56
Askani	and then, boom meego	03:56
Askani	just getting lost	03:56
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crashanddie	plonker	03:57
phreck	lol, people are still crying?	03:57
crashanddie	maher: please don't feed the trolls	03:57
phreck	i wish they would contribute instead of cry and run to the fruitphone.	03:58
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GeneralAntilles	I wish Nokia would quit poisoning their community.	03:58
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crashanddie	I wish people stopped being narrow-minded twats and calling competitors stupid nicknames	03:59
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maher	ok - i don't get it - why can't calling fcrontab -l (as root) look at /etc/fcron.conf?	04:06
phreck	oh cmon	04:08
phreck	fruitphone is funny.	04:08
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maher	bingo - /etc/fcron.conf must be _exactly_ 644 - 640 doesn't work as must check to see if its 644	04:12
maher	in spite of what the documentation says...	04:13
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pronto	yay, i got a ps3 controller today, and was using it to play snes games on teh n900 :o	04:32
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crashanddie	~stats	05:24
infobot	Since Thu Mar 4 01:30:25 2010, there have been 1 modification, 8 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 2 commands. I have been awake for 1h 53m 44s this session, and currently reference 116874 factoids. I'm using about 16348 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 139.82/6.16 child 0.33/0.16	05:24
crashanddie	~thanks	05:24
infobot	bitte, crashanddie	05:24
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v infobot		05:24
DocScrutinizer	chanserv got funny ideas, no?	05:26
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DocScrutinizer	~weather EDDN	05:27
infobot	Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2010.03.04 0320 UTC; Dew Point: 21 F (-6 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.91 in. Hg (1013 hPa); Relative Humidity: 68%; Temperature: 30 F (-1 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the NE (040 degrees) at 6 MPH (5 KT); Windchill: 23 F (-5 C)	05:27
DocScrutinizer	~botsnack	05:27
infobot	thanks, DocScrutinizer	05:27
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DocScrutinizer	~uptime	05:29
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: I told CS to do that :)	05:30
DocScrutinizer	:-)	05:30
crashanddie	~weather brisbane	05:30
infobot	I can't find station code "BRISBANE" (see http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/site.shtml or http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml for ICAO locations codes).	05:30
crashanddie	:(	05:30
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crashanddie	~weather YBBN	05:33
infobot	Brisbane Airport M. O, Australia; (YBBN) 27-23S 153-06E 5M; last updated: 2010.03.04 0300 UTC; Dew Point: 64 F (18 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.85 in. Hg (1011 hPa); Relative Humidity: 61%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 78 F (26 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the SE (130 degrees) at 13 MPH (11 KT)	05:33
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: 27C difference :P	05:34
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ptl	~weather http://maemos.ru/2009/12/20/java-nokia-n900-maemo-5-opera-mini/ ---> java SE and java ME for N900	05:37
infobot	I can't find station code "HTTP://MAEMOS.RU/2009/12/20/JAVA-NOKIA-N900-MAEMO-5-OPERA-MINI/ ---> JAVA SE AND JAVA ME N900" (see http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/site.shtml or http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml for ICAO locations codes).	05:38
ptl	oops	05:38
ptl	no ~weather line	05:38
ptl	lol	05:38
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crashanddie	ptl: java has been working on the N900 for quite a while now	05:40
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DocScrutinizer	maybe not in .RU ;-P	05:42
ptl	crashanddie: yes, but that's an unified solution, a single zip file. That helps, don't you think?	05:42
ptl	java SE and ME	05:42
crashanddie	well	05:42
crashanddie	people who want to use SE rarely want ME	05:42
crashanddie	and vice versa	05:42
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anotnac	just woke up i had strange dream that there was an firmware update on my n900 when i woke i ran to my n900 and dissapointed myself lol i thought my dream was real	06:21
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DocScrutinizer	don't you know dreams are about future, not present?	06:23
ShadowJK	morning	06:23
DocScrutinizer	moin	06:23
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crashanddie	"My mother in law broke up my marriage." "How'd that happen?" "Well, my wife came home from work one night, and found us in bed together."	06:25
GeneralAntilles	Special	06:25
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crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: admit it, you like it	06:35
arachnist	i like it	06:35
anotnac	lol	06:40
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crashanddie	http://www.vodafone.com.au/personal/mobilebroadband/mobile-broadband-prepaid.htm	06:51
crashanddie	look at the price for 4GB and 6GB	06:52
crashanddie	notice anything weird?	06:52
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ali1234	crashanddie: but it has a 180 day expiry, so you only have to "top up" every 6 months	06:56
crashanddie	so topping up every 6 months is worth losing 2GB of data?	06:57
ali1234	consider someone who will use 1GB per month	06:57
ali1234	the 6GB plan will be cheapest for them	06:58
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crashanddie	ali1234: true	07:02
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johnx	hallo	07:10
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johnx	>_< anyone remember if kernel 2.4.19 had a known memory leak (besides the iptables one)?	07:12
arachnist	2.4.19?	07:14
arachnist	that was like... over 6 years ago	07:15
johnx	8 years	07:15
arachnist	8 maybe even	07:15
arachnist	yeah	07:15
johnx	yeah	07:15
arachnist	;>	07:15
johnx	work related ...	07:15
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johnx	I have a linux-based (though mostly closed) NAS that's been up for 257 days and it's grinding to a halt	07:16
johnx	the RSS of all the processes on the machine don't add up to the amount of memory used	07:16
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DocScrutinizer	johnx: don't you think it's silly to ask if somebody can count all the flaws of a 8 year old kernel, from top of his head?	07:18
johnx	nah. more like taking a shot in the dark that someone remembers	07:18
johnx	anyways, I should have probably added a <half-joking> to the front of that :)	07:19
johnx	and I figured someone might get a laugh out of the ancient stuff we're using	07:20
crashanddie	johnx: ask it on #linux	07:21
crashanddie	johnx: might be the funzors	07:21
DocScrutinizer	johnx: for the laugh it was a success	07:21
crashanddie	actually, I'll do it	07:21
trip0	man, android is stupid	07:23
johnx	trip0, but cheap	07:23
johnx	it'd make a good motto actually: "Stupid ... but cheap!"	07:24
trip0	mobile OS's are like prostitutes. you probably don't want cheap.	07:24
johnx	heh. but if you're dead set on a hooker and you only have $150 that kinda limits your options	07:24
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johnx	some people would just tell you to save up and get something nice later, but not everyone has the willpower to hold out	07:25
trip0	then you wake up the next morning next to your droid and you think "why didn't i just save up for the n900?"	07:25
trip0	...probably wishing you were still drunk	07:26
johnx	yeah, or you shell out $500 for the N900 and think: maybe I should have gotten a used G1 and $350 of vodka	07:26
arachnist	lol	07:26
mtnbkr	johnx: lol	07:27
arachnist	i'd get a droid... if it had a better keyboard	07:27
arachnist	its keyboard is almoast as bad as typing on a touchscreen	07:27
johnx	I'm thinking of getting a G1 (and $350 of booze) when I have to return my loaner N900	07:27
johnx	(not actually getting $350 of booze so much as ... food for the month)	07:28
trip0	seen the G1... not impressed	07:29
johnx	played with one	07:29
johnx	dunno if I'm $350 more impressed with the N900	07:29
trip0	i played with the nexus one for 2 weeks	07:29
trip0	i was definitely $350 more impressed with the n900	07:30
arachnist	speaking of food... i have to stop buying things, unless i'm going to learn how to eat air...	07:30
johnx	hmm, I'll have to get my hands on a G1 again and see if my vision of the past is just rose tinted ...	07:30
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uhsf	i am ~400$ impressed by my n900, but i paid ~800$ for it	07:31
ptl	only have $150?	07:31
microlith	o_O	07:31
* johnx just furnished an apartment from craigslist :>		07:31
ptl	for a hooker?	07:31
trip0	lol	07:31
GeneralAntilles	johnx, traitorous thoughts!	07:31
ptl	here you can get a hooker for $20, half an hour	07:31
johnx	ptl, well that's the problem right there: half an hour. that's just getting started ...	07:32
RST38h	moo johnx	07:32
MiXu-	Pfft. 5 minutes is plenty! ;)=	07:32
johnx	RST38h, m00f	07:32
trip0	MiXu-: +1. after 10minutes, i'm already snoozing	07:32
RST38h	So, lemme see, someone betraying his N900 for a hooker?	07:33
MiXu-	trip0 =D	07:33
johnx	GeneralAntilles, eh, dunno how to justify $500 when there are other things on the budget ...	07:33
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GeneralAntilles	johnx, may be cheaper by the time return time rolls around.	07:33
MiXu-	How much does N900 actually sell for in the US at the moment?	07:33
johnx	GeneralAntilles, $350 cheaper in the next couple weeks?	07:33
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trip0	MiXu-, i hear 400 on ebay	07:34
trip0	it's 530 on newegg where i got mine	07:34
MiXu-	Alright. That's so wrong.	07:34
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johnx	MiXu-, google says $500 - $530 new	07:34
GeneralAntilles	johnx, G1 sucks, though.	07:34
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MiXu-	In europe it's same numbers, but different currency.	07:34
trip0	seriously, the G1 is stuck in android 1.5 land	07:35
MiXu-	$530 becomes 530e	07:35
MiXu-	(which is $724)	07:35
johnx	GeneralAntilles, if it shows maps and web pages and lets me make phone calls, text messages and IMs I'm pretty much good	07:35
johnx	MiXu-, seems kinda steep	07:35
RST38h	Wait, you are looking for the CHEAPEST tablet phone?	07:36
MiXu-	When N96 hit the stores back in 2008, the price was about $1300 (1e=1,3$)	07:36
johnx	RST38h, cheapest one with a keyboard and linux, essentially	07:36
MiXu-	But only for like the first week or two though	07:36
RST38h	johnx: ah that limits choices	07:37
trip0	the G1 doesn't run linux	07:37
RST38h	johnx: Are you sure you want Android "linux", to begin with?	07:38
johnx	RST38h, symbian and winmo drive me up the wall, and I'm stuck on t-mobile USA	07:38
trip0	android is more like "linooks" than Linux	07:38
johnx	trip0, it's "close enough" in most ways	07:38
MiXu-	iPhone is technically linux too ;)	07:39
RST38h	johnx: N900 then. Or suffer for another 9 months and then the next Maemo.	07:39
RST38h	MiXu: FreeBSD.	07:39
johnx	and who knows, maybe I'll hack it up and try some of the patches that recently have been getting into mainline to make the MSM in it work in "real" linux	07:39
MiXu-	Oh, my bad.	07:39
johnx	RST38h, yeah, you missed the part where I have a better use for $350	07:39
RST38h	johnx: That I can understand, yes	07:39
trip0	a man must have his principles	07:40
trip0	...so he can toss them out the window for cheap booze and hookers	07:40
RST38h	johnx: but is that better use going to be as much fun? =)	07:40
johnx	trip0, I'll drink to that!	07:40
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johnx	RST38h, well part of it is going to food and part is going to an HDTV, sooo I'd have to say yes	07:41
johnx	anyways, I'm not giving up on maemo/meego, just the N900 hardware ;)	07:41
RST38h	johnx: I would screw HDTV off the list	07:41
ptl	is it possible to reformat MyDocs as an ext2/ext3 partition?	07:41
RST38h	johnx: No, really. After considering all the benefits.	07:42
johnx	RST38h, then call it a $150 (used) 36" monitor that I can use for watching movies with my wife	07:42
RST38h	(and, btw, I probably canot insist on N900 specifically, but Droid or Nexus will still be way better than the G1)	07:43
RST38h	johnx: Ah	07:43
RST38h	ok	07:43
johnx	225lbs of CRT lovin'	07:43
ptl	Droid has its partitions cryptographically signed, you can't change system software	07:43
johnx	ptl, that and being on verizon are a big strike against it	07:44
RST38h	johnx: Which brings up a question of whether N900 et al are available used?	07:44
RST38h	ptl: Oh =(	07:44
microlith	ptl: err, I doubt that's true	07:44
ptl	so instead of the usual half-baked openness of android you'll have a quarter-baked android	07:44
microlith	unless that doesn't apply to the kernel	07:44
johnx	microlith, why? tivo does the same thing...	07:45
ptl	microlith: ok, i confess that I didn't dig deeper into the subject, I trusted a friend who's a technical guy and has a motorola droid	07:45
microlith	because I work with guys who've taken the Droid and installed a custom kernel on it	07:45
ptl	But motorola traditionally locks up their phones tight	07:45
microlith	ptl: aware of that	07:46
ptl	maybe they got some hack to do it, some workaround	07:46
johnx	RST38h, lowest is $465 on fleabay	07:46
microlith	ptl: entirely possible, the Droid has been rooted iirc	07:46
RST38h	tivo...feh	07:47
RST38h	johnx: Have they reenabled ad skipping in tivo?	07:47
johnx	RST38h, I have no idea. I'm pretty disillusioned with them overall though	07:48
ptl	microlith: that was the matter, he told me that due to the encryption, even with root access you couldn't do modifications on the root partition (or something like that)	07:48
microlith	ptl: weird, I'll ask about it tomorrow	07:49
microlith	wouldn't surprise me, and makes me happy I ignored the Droid (and verizon)	07:49
RST38h	Verizon is good	07:49
RST38h	In terms of signal reception	07:49
microlith	sure	07:49
RST38h	The rest is...mhm	07:49
johnx	also good at charging a lot of money	07:49
RST38h	johnx: they are all good at that	07:49
johnx	t-mo US is worse at both :)	07:50
RST38h	johnx: the only solution is to charge your employer a lot of money, preferably on hourly basis	07:50
johnx	working on that :)	07:50
ptl	The Droid is a very good device hardware-wise and Android has some merits too	07:50
ptl	it is really beautiful	07:50
ptl	but	07:50
RST38h	ptl: keyboard does suck a bit	07:51
johnx	RST38h, actually, my employer offered to pay my phone bill, but I have a feeling that comes with certain expectations of being on-call, etc	07:51
ptl	it has problems, I got three friends with Motorola Droid, and it can be a coincidence, but they're all geeks and confessed to be disappointed with the device	07:51
ptl	RST38h: but it has four rows, one row more than the N900, I thought it was good when I tried my friend's droid	07:51
RST38h	johnx: Of course. Besides, the guy may always start analyzing your call logs for private calls no related to work	07:52
johnx	RST38h, nah. I'd have to set that up for him ...	07:53
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RST38h	ptl: Felt like a piece of flat plastic film to me =) But yes, 4 rows at least	07:54
* RST38h hopes Maemo Devices will not make the same mistake twice		07:54
johnx	the mistake of including a keyboard?	07:54
johnx	remember how they fixed the dpad?	07:54
RST38h	johnx: Ah, that's true	07:55
RST38h	johnx: But they did add the arrow buttons, at least for americans, so not all is bad	07:55
johnx	granted, the d-pad was actually bad enough on the N800 that the arrows almost feel like an improvement	07:55
johnx	but really, d-pads are not that hard...the whole situation boggles the mind...	07:56
RST38h	johnx: It is weird how everyone mourns the dpad but nobody notices that the basic operaions (running an app, switching between apps) also became harder	07:56
johnx	I noticed. using the shutter button via camkeyd helps a lot though	07:57
RST38h	johnx: task switch was made with 1 touch in Maemo4, in Maemo5 it is 2 touches + some waiting for task switcher to show up	07:57
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RST38h	johnx: and running an app is 3 touches and a slide and another touch	07:57
microlith	RST38h: but that required screen real estate, no?	07:57
microlith	(and woe be he that does not put frequently used apps directly on the desktop)	07:58
RST38h	yes	07:58
RST38h	which effectively hides the other apps from me :)	07:59
DocScrutinizer	worst brainfuck is taskswitcher doesn't work via kbd anymore	08:02
GeneralAntilles	Er, doesn't?	08:02
GeneralAntilles	Works here	08:02
GeneralAntilles	camkeyd is really useful too	08:02
DocScrutinizer	UHUH! how?	08:02
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GeneralAntilles	ctrl-backspace?	08:03
DocScrutinizer	and THEN?	08:03
johnx	DocScrutinizer, push the keyboard back in and tap on the screen. :)	08:03
DocScrutinizer	LOL	08:03
* johnx pulls out the marketing book		08:03
johnx	"touchscreens are the future"	08:03
RST38h	capacitive touchscreens!	08:04
RST38h	hehe	08:04
DocScrutinizer	touchscreens are A PITA both to use and to clean	08:04
DocScrutinizer	and NO I do not want a c-ts	08:04
johnx	capacitive buttons are awesome actually :) my parents' TV set from the 80's (still working) has 13 capacitive channel selector buttons on the front	08:05
* johnx tries to find a pic ...		08:05
GeneralAntilles	johnx, I hate them	08:05
GeneralAntilles	You can never find the right one.	08:05
GeneralAntilles	Switching inputs on my Samsung 2343bwx is an unholy pain	08:05
johnx	GeneralAntilles, you've never even met my parents. bit harsh O_o;	08:05
GeneralAntilles	I have my mouse charging stand set so the input switching button is just to the right of it	08:06
RST38h	johnx: non-tactile stuff is still kinda problematic :(	08:06
GeneralAntilles	Otherwise I hit Auto all the time.	08:06
DocScrutinizer	I hardly use the mouse on my PC. TS is a botch replacement for a mouse. So WTF would I want to use TS? If I got a kbd	08:06
RST38h	looks futuristic like hell but problematic to use	08:06
johnx	RST38h, actually the buttons were raised and had the numbers clearly written next to them	08:06
RST38h	another little details sf writes guessed wrong	08:06
RST38h	johnx: Ah, that changes things	08:06
johnx	basically it looked like 13 little -	08:07
johnx	on the front of the TV to the right of the screen	08:07
RST38h	s/details/details s/writes/writers shit I hate this keyoard	08:07
johnx	you could flip channels like you would slide your finger over a piano	08:07
DocScrutinizer	johnx: clearly a great advantage for blind people at least (yes, even blind use TV)	08:07
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RST38h	johnx: Funny, late Soviet color TVs had the same touch selector	08:07
johnx	cool. this one was probably American made though	08:08
RST38h	either copied or somehow oscillated to the same design	08:08
johnx	oh, I took a pic I think...	08:08
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johnx	http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnxx/4135486786/sizes/o/	08:09
DocScrutinizer	c-ts is absolutely optimized to be a replacement for a hw keyboard (like 9 button kbd)	08:10
DocScrutinizer	all the useful aspects of a r-ts are gone with c-ts	08:10
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DocScrutinizer	on N810 I had not to use the ts for a whole day of working with it. N900 you rather can dismiss the kbd than the ts :-(	08:12
DocScrutinizer	epic fail of GUI designers	08:13
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Stskeeps	morning	08:13
DocScrutinizer	moi Stskeeps	08:13
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johnx	mornin' Stskeeps	08:14
RST38h	ehlo Stskeeps	08:14
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pupnik	GeneralAntilles is right again.	08:17
DocScrutinizer	I mean, even windoze eventually learnt you might want a kbd shortcut for just everything. Maemo5 ingores that	08:17
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ShadowJK	I think windows removed the underlining of letters in menus thing	08:22
RST38h	Doc: Well, file a few bugzilla trackers and show them to konttori	08:22
RST38h	It is not like Maemo5 entirely lacks shortcuts but their use is inconsistent	08:22
DocScrutinizer	exactly	08:22
RST38h	Some will be fixed in PR1.2, if I understand correctly	08:22
DocScrutinizer	see ctrl-bs, but then missing arrow keys and space/enter to select a task	08:23
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DocScrutinizer	also a consistent way to invoke menus	08:23
DocScrutinizer	N810 had menu button	08:23
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ml-mobile	ShadowJK: it hides them until you hit the alt key by default	08:24
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DocScrutinizer	QT (3?) has an automatism for that (alt shortcuts). I really hope they won't kick that for maemo5	08:26
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DocScrutinizer	anyway even that won't help for the missing menu key/shortcut	08:28
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DocScrutinizer	nor for the taskswitcher	08:29
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DocScrutinizer	err s/maemo5/maemo6/	08:31
Trizt	will there be a 6?	08:31
johnx	Trizt, yes	08:31
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DocScrutinizer	well I heard a lot of the maemo taskforce is working on maemo6 already. Whether it's calle maemo or meego in the end, who knows	08:32
* Trizt nods		08:32
DocScrutinizer	who cares!	08:32
Trizt	as long as it begins on an 'm', it's the same ;)	08:33
DocScrutinizer	m*o :-P	08:33
DocScrutinizer	moblin genes were recessive there XP	08:34
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johnx	take one 'o' from maemo and one from moblin and call it 'moo'	08:35
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DocScrutinizer	evolution at it's best	08:35
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Stskeeps	did you people catch http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/towards-day-one yet?	08:46
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GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, yes, it tells us absolutely nothing new.	08:51
* GeneralAntilles notes he misspelled Niels.		08:51
ShadowJK	It's a nice summary confirmation of the pieces of puzzle	08:51
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: that first port is for N900 is pretty new	08:52
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, meh.	08:53
GeneralAntilles	Not anything particularly mind boggling.	08:53
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: you're hard to please :P	08:53
GeneralAntilles	Nor does to do anything for the Harmattan/N900 issue.	08:53
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, yeah, well.	08:53
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DocScrutinizer	well, at least it's been about time some statement was published. Not read to the last line yet, and seems I'll be disappointed	08:53
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: well, it is a bit hard to demand Harmattan answers in a MeeGo post ;)	08:55
ShadowJK	Stskeeps, damn you and your logic!	08:56
Stskeeps	ShadowJK: it only exists until i have my coffee, then it's replaced with my chaos working method	08:56
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Stskeeps	:P	08:56
ShadowJK	The community has invested all their remaining money in pitchforks! And it's not season for making hay	08:57
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* tekojo coffee...		09:00
Stskeeps	indeed, i hear my kettle whistling	09:00
tybollt	pot meet kettle	09:01
tybollt	:-S	09:01
tekojo	GeneralAntilles I do feel like I should comment on the Niels spelling, but it would sound like nit picking in the blog	09:01
GeneralAntilles	tekojo, email.	09:01
tekojo	GeneralAntilles old faithful solution to all problems	09:05
* DocScrutinizer wonders what "public R&D" might look like in the end of the day. Been a big topic on some former project		09:06
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: both highlevel meego architects and idealistic Mer type guys going out for icecream in the red light district of amsterdam	09:06
Stskeeps	:P	09:06
Stskeeps	together ;)	09:06
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: hehe. Hope to be one of that number	09:07
Stskeeps	random fact, there is actually a decent icecream store there :P	09:07
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* DocScrutinizer icecoffee. Interesting proposal for my next cup ;-P		09:11
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johnx	wait, going out for "ice cream"? I know what a "coffee shop" is in amsterdam, but I don't know what ice cream is a euphemism for...	09:19
Stskeeps	icecream	09:20
Stskeeps	:P	09:20
SpeedEvil	kinky.	09:20
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* ShadowJK waits for the first "....should forget about N900 and Omap3, Omap4 and snapdragon is where it's at!"-posts/whining		09:28
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johnx	AFAIK, the next maemo device will be an omap3 as well	09:30
SpeedEvil	Clearly we need to wait for x86-64 mobile	09:30
johnx	intel is getting right on that...	09:30
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crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: you cost me a week of my life	09:31
johnx	it will be compatible with most backpack generators and car batteries with a capacity of 600Ah or better	09:31
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: I demand damage and interest	09:31
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ShadowJK	There's cool video on youtube where a guy uses a 2400mAh Li-Ion A123 battery to start his car :)	09:32
crashanddie	Definitions of "cool" vary widely, apparently	09:33
ShadowJK	it was -21C	09:33
tybollt	ShadowJK: I want this video	09:33
tybollt	fuck sake my car won't start cause of cold sometimes :S	09:34
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: they are fun bats.	09:34
ShadowJK	I'll try find it again	09:34
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: I have a design for a little flying thing which extracts ~600W from 3 cells.	09:34
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ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, I'm tempted to try order the "developer kit" and see if it shows up in finland	09:34
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: until recently half price cells were on ebay	09:34
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SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: someone seemed to have gotten a big batch surplus	09:35
Sachin	who wants to take a guess at when the next firmware is going to be released?	09:35
ShadowJK	yeah... "surplus".. I think I could probably spot the counterfeit eneloops, but I know nothing of the A123 that'd help me on ebay	09:36
Sachin	next friday?	09:36
johnx	Sachin, end of april (just a guess)	09:36
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: reportedly (by purchasers) the real thing	09:36
Sachin	why so late?	09:37
ShadowJK	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcvmvrmTMMk for the batteryfreaks	09:37
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Sachin	if that is the case why release 1.1 so early?	09:37
SpeedEvil	http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-PCS-A123-NEW-18650-1000-1100mah-Lifepo4-battery-cell_W0QQitemZ270536768218QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3efd3f7ada	09:37
tybollt	I remember someone saying (around here) that the 1.2 thingy was expected "next week" when 1.1.1 arrived :)	09:37
johnx	Sachin, because you asked me to guess. So I did. I have no more info than you do	09:38
johnx	I can guess again if you want	09:38
Sachin	better not be so late..	09:38
johnx	or what?	09:39
crashanddie	ShadowJK	09:40
crashanddie	~weather YBBN	09:40
Sachin	ill make my own firmware and release it :)	09:40
DocScrutinizer	duh	09:41
DocScrutinizer	/invite infobot	09:41
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johnx	alright. back to work. 'later maemoers :)	09:42
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ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, how did purchaser determine it's the real thing? :-)	09:45
ShadowJK	I think you'd have to push it beyond what the standard lifepo4 can do	09:45
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SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: fast charges	09:46
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: standard lifepo4 can't do them really	09:46
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DocScrutinizer	what means fast here?	09:54
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anotnac	is t.m.o down	09:56
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anotnac	http://talk.maemo.org/	09:56
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mece	looks like it.	09:56
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: >20C charge	09:57
DocScrutinizer	ahh, k	09:57
mece	I want 20C charge!!	09:57
mece	I can has?	09:57
* tybollt hands mece a cheezeburgr		09:58
mece	om nom nom	09:58
mece	anyway	09:58
mece	1C is getting rather old...	09:58
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ShadowJK	"float charge" allowed...	09:59
ShadowJK	but how damaging is it, I wonder	09:59
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anotnac	t.m.o is alive again its been going off and online all morning for me since it done the daily back up	10:00
DocScrutinizer	mhm, noticed a few 120sec downtimes last few hours as well	10:01
DocScrutinizer	wiki that is	10:01
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anotnac	i never checked wiki only looked at downloads and that seems unaffected	10:02
mece	I'm having some trouble getting gcc to work in easy debian.	10:03
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mece	Does anyone have some experience with this?	10:03
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DocScrutinizer	infobot: hi! welcome back again	10:07
DocScrutinizer	infobot: say hi!	10:07
infobot	hi!	10:07
cehteh	yawn	10:08
DocScrutinizer	~poke cehteh	10:08
* infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind cehteh, pokes cehteh repeatedly, hilarity ensues.		10:08
cehteh	~puke DocScrutinizer	10:09
* infobot , while sick, attempts to make it to the porcelain god and pukes all over harleypig		10:09
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cehteh	hm .. :P	10:10
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tybollt	~kill tybollt	10:13
* infobot shoots a inverse fluxquark gun at tybollt		10:13
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cehteh	no suicide protection?	10:13
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ptl	~kill infobot	10:20
* infobot shoots a ionized fluxelectron gun at infobot		10:20
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* n00bmonk3y waves up		10:22
* n00bmonk3y wakes up *		10:22
n00bmonk3y	woah way to early	10:22
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marmoute	~slap n00bmonk3y	10:23
* infobot slaps n00bmonk3y, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!		10:23
tybollt	~wake n00bmonk3y	10:23
* infobot throws a barrel-full of ice water on n00bmonk3y and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!"		10:23
* n00bmonk3y blinks		10:23
mece	hmm-. aptitude upgrade over 3g 384kbps might have been a bad idea...	10:24
n00bmonk3y	2 slaps, a bucket of water and a ~wake? lol!	10:24
n00bmonk3y	lol mece	10:24
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mece	are there any open source office readers for maemo?	10:26
mord	hmm. what's the latest pr build?	10:26
mord	3.2010.02-8?	10:26
n00bmonk3y	1.1.1, depends where you are	10:26
n00bmonk3y	doesnt docs on the go that comes on the device count? or do you watn the code? lol	10:26
mece	n00bmonkey3y, it's not free I understand.	10:27
n00bmonk3y	yup mord	10:27
n00bmonk3y	:)	10:27
n00bmonk3y	oh well	10:27
mord	right. ty.	10:27
n00bmonk3y	still depends where you are	10:28
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n00bmonk3y	not released in the UK yet	10:28
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mece	is extras down?	10:35
mece	oh nvrmind	10:35
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The_Tall1	Hi has anybody compiled rdflib to diablo?	10:43
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n00bmonk3y	the quietness may mean no :P	10:50
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The_Tall1	or everbody shiffers, cause its scary :(	10:51
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The_Tall1	the python-egg installation is no problem with gcc-4.3 on i386 but using a cross-compiler ended in "processor doesn't support <assembler code>" or basic stdout.h was missing	10:54
The_Tall1	Not my kind of fun in scratchbox	10:55
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mece	The_Tall1, did you clean it between builds?	10:56
The_Tall1	no but used different dir for the object files	10:57
mece	fun times.	10:57
The_Tall1	mece: Between which builds?	10:58
mece	The_Tall1, well i had a similar problem when i compiled something in i386, then the same thing in armel	10:59
mece	"make clean" helped.	10:59
mece	and configure	10:59
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The_Tall1	mece: thanks for this hint.	11:00
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jacekowski	good morning	11:05
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Jaffa	Morning, all	11:27
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The_Tall1	mece: thanks again got rdflib installed in scratchbox. Now have to build a debian package. Might become interesting	11:46
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Jaffa	Morning, all	11:51
Jaffa	Ah, I did that.	11:51
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The_Tall1	Jaffa: Do you have a debian package for armel devices?	11:52
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mece	The_Tall1, cool!	11:57
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Jaffa	The_Tall1: Of?	12:05
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The_Tall1	no shower	12:17
tybollt	no?	12:18
tybollt	can you atleast use deodorant? You kind of smell :(	12:18
lcuk	Jaffa, going senile i see! good mornin to you	12:19
lcuk	i hope there is going to be a weekly news item about the lardman fix	12:20
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The_Tall1	Jaffa: No just got back	12:21
homeasvs_	in wiki.maemo.org, how can I contact an author of a wiki page ?	12:21
homeasvs_	clicking on his name, or the talk link next to it, just takes me to pages that don't exist	12:21
SpeedEvil	create the page	12:21
SpeedEvil	they may notice	12:21
SpeedEvil	or find the linked talk.maemo.org page and send them a message	12:22
SpeedEvil	or if they're on IRC, ping them	12:22
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pupnik	~	12:27
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DocScrutinizer	~!	12:28
DocScrutinizer	~~	12:29
infobot	well, ~ is the key	12:29
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tybollt	~slap self	12:30
Jaffa	The_Tall1: You were asking about Debian armel packages	12:30
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* infobot slaps self, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!		12:30
The_Tall1	Jaffa: Yes	12:31
The_Tall1	Jaffa:Building a package out of the rdflib python-egg	12:32
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The_Tall1	Jaffa: Is dh_make and fixing rules, control and makefile the only way?	12:34
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V13	Hello. Is "Attila Csipa" here ?	12:48
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V13	do you know if pyqt4 is in extras ?	12:54
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lcuk	V13, you can check	13:05
V13	i did and i found: not	13:06
lcuk	then there is your answer	13:06
V13	but then again, atilla77 which is the maintainer of pyqt4 asked me if i'm going to promote wifieye to extras which depends on pyqt4	13:07
lcuk	im not sure what the qt and extras arrangement will be post 1.2, hopefully it will be simpler - X-Fade do you have any idea	13:07
X-Fade	V13: That does no matter, it gets promoted as a dependency.	13:07
V13	X-Fade: even if we're talking about pyqt4 ?	13:07
V13	i understand this for all other libraries, but pyqt4 too ? :-)	13:08
X-Fade	V13: Well, there is the PR1.2 thingie ;)	13:08
V13	hmm.. perhaps i should check qt4 instead of pyqt4	13:08
V13	X-Fade: Exactly :-)	13:08
V13	oh... problem solved.	13:08
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V13	qt4 4.5.3 comes from nokia, so there is no reason not to promote pyqt4 when needed.	13:09
X-Fade	qt5 4.5.3 is on < PR1.2 devices by default.	13:09
X-Fade	qt4 ;)	13:10
X-Fade	qt4 4.6 on >= PR1.2	13:10
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V13	ok then... I bring you pyqt4 in extras then :)	13:11
pupnik	anybody know ehrer microb caches the .flvs? i would like to copy them out of /tmp or wherever	13:11
pupnik	where	13:11
X-Fade	V13: It will also mean that it won't work once PR1.2 is released.	13:12
X-Fade	On PR1.2 devices.	13:12
V13	x-fade i'd rephrase that as: ... it might not work once PR1.2 is released	13:12
X-Fade	V13: Will.	13:12
V13	I'm not doing anything 4.5 specific.	13:13
V13	nor maemo specific.	13:13
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X-Fade	V13: As then you need an updated python2.5-qt4-core too.	13:13
V13	oh	13:13
V13	right	13:13
X-Fade	Well, it depends if it that will work. As it has >= 4.5.3 depends.	13:14
V13	Perhaps the'll reconsider having qt 4.5 available in /opt	13:14
V13	this qt-thing versioning is very lame.	13:14
X-Fade	Dual install will be quite a pain.	13:14
V13	not very but lame	13:14
X-Fade	Let's hope that Qt4.6 stays for a while :)	13:15
V13	they should properly handle library versions instead of using the "product" version for them.	13:15
V13	I mean, someone should force trolls to read the info page of libtool.	13:15
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* ptl is not from trolltech triggers 'info libtool' right now		13:16
lcuk	V13, are you offering?	13:16
* V13 gets its gun		13:16
V13	s/its/his	13:16
* V13 computerized		13:16
lcuk	lay down your arms	13:16
lcuk	start a tshirt campaign or something	13:17
w00t	X-Fade: it won't be such a problem in the future	13:17
w00t	X-Fade: API/ABI compatibility	13:17
X-Fade	w00t: Yeah.	13:17
V13	w00t yeah right..	13:18
V13	as far as i remember qt>4.0, it always was... no ?	13:19
pupnik	systemui 977 user mem REG 254,1 29763056 130236 /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive	13:19
V13	4.5 => 4.6 should be 4.5 => 5.0	13:19
V13	pupnik yes.	13:19
w00t	V13: I don't understand what you're saying	13:19
V13	w00t: qt4 always had api and abi breakage between releases	13:20
w00t	V13: no, it doesn't	13:20
w00t	V13: they introduce new API, they don't break old API, and nor do they break ABI	13:20
V13	ok.. i'm not 100% sure but i remember kde always working on a specific qt version	13:20
w00t	V13: Qt on Maemo was different prior to 4.6	13:20
V13	w00t: AFAIK, it's not the maemo additions that make qt 4.6 incompatible with 4.5. KDE 4.2 will not work with qt4.6 for example.	13:21
ptl	Nexus 900, how's that for the name of a phone?	13:21
w00t	V13: it is the Maemo additions, because e.g. kinetic scrolling (on Maemo) changed totally from 4.5 that is there now to 4.6, along with other changes	13:21
V13	w00t: of course I might be wrong, but that's what I remember.	13:21
V13	w00t: then python2.5-qt4-core will work both with qt4.5 and qt4.6 ?	13:22
pupnik	7834245 3666 /home/user/MyDocs/tmp/FlashFYlp2n woooot	13:22
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w00t	I don't definitively know the answer, probably, if it's built for 4.5 and doesn't use any new additions from 4.6	13:23
V13	pupnik: are you looking for packages that take up space ?	13:23
V13	w00t: it currently works with 4.5, so it should be compatible with 4.6 ?	13:23
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V13	I really hope you're right.	13:24
V13	:)	13:24
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pupnik	V13: no just a way to archive video from browser	13:26
V13	oh	13:26
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mece	why-the-frak wont this configure file recognize sdl_mixer having ogg support?	13:28
X-Fade	V13: Actually wifieye runs on pr1.2 with qt4.6 only.	13:28
V13	?	13:28
V13	i didn't get that. you mean it requires 4.6 ?	13:28
V13	or that is runs if qt is upgraded ?	13:29
X-Fade	No, it runs on PR1.2 where only qt4.6 is available.	13:29
V13	you've pr1.2 in your hands ? :)	13:29
X-Fade	Can't comment on that, but I'm telling you it works ;)	13:30
V13	thanks :)	13:30
* lcuk giggles		13:30
* V13 presses the "Thanks" button		13:30
X-Fade	Oh, sweet. More karma ;)	13:30
DocScrutinizer	~X-Fade:++	13:31
DocScrutinizer	oops	13:31
V13	x-fade i suppose you're using python2.5-qt4-* from extras testing. right ?	13:31
DocScrutinizer	~X-Fade++	13:31
X-Fade	V13: Installed wifieye from testing, yes.	13:31
V13	i mean, not another version, compiled for a different maemo (let's say pr1.2)	13:32
X-Fade	V13: No, python is a community supported runtime. So it is not included in the device by default.	13:32
V13	yes. i'm aware of that. but you could have re-compiled it yourself. suppose not	13:33
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X-Fade	python2.5-qt4-core 4.7-maemo7	13:33
V13	yeap... that one :)	13:33
X-Fade	V13: I just clicked from AM, I really don't have time to recompile things ;)	13:33
tybollt	X-Fade could tell you but then he'd have to kill you...	13:35
V13	Any idea how the screenshots for http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/ are generated?	13:37
V13	I mean... who does it? I don't see a way to add a screenshot for wifieye	13:37
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X-Fade	V13: You can do it yourself.	13:38
V13	hm... how exactly ?	13:38
X-Fade	V13: The entry will be created automatically once the app is in Extras.	13:38
V13	oh.. good	13:39
X-Fade	V13: And then you can just go to the page and click 'edit' on the floating bar.	13:39
V13	thanks	13:39
V13	I suppose you don't mean this one: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/wifieye/0.5.0-1/	13:39
X-Fade	No	13:40
V13	k	13:40
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satmd	hi	13:48
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pupnik	it is very nice to watch webvideo with mplayer, letting browser cache it on pause :)	13:55
satmd	is it possible to have an smtp-only mail account in modest which stores sent mail on imap?	13:56
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V13	satmd: I didn't understand what you said. How is it going to be 'smtp only' if it has access to imap ?	13:59
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V13	you mean, not to fetch mails ?	13:59
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satmd	V13: yes	14:11
satmd	I have one central imap account with getmail integration	14:12
satmd	but for sending mail, I use individual smtp accounts on my desktop	14:12
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V13	Perhaps you mean identities ?	14:13
andre__	hmm. my maemo.org karma dropped to nearly half of it.	14:13
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timeless_mbp	andre__: i lost a large portion of my karma too :(	14:13
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tybollt	My name is Tim! (ref My name is Earl!)	14:14
satmd	well, if I can use these identities with individual smtp server, fine	14:15
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V13	Since it is not possible to subscribe to folders or exclude from check mail, i guess it is not 100% possible	14:16
V13	you can have multiple accounts for different identities and use whichever you like	14:16
V13	you can also make those accounts look at the same server/username but they will slow mail fetching.	14:17
V13	since they will all retrieve mail.	14:17
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satmd	hm, so ONE workaround means to have a dummy pop3 locally	14:17
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V13	If you disable mail fetching for all of them then it will ok, but at some cases (sending failed) you may need to do a "send&receive" which will most probably cause mails to be fetched	14:17
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V13	well.. yes.. but storing sent mails on imap... i don't know if it can do that	14:18
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satmd	mh	14:19
Arif_	morning o:	14:19
satmd	I could bcc myself	14:19
satmd	but that's rather uglxy	14:19
satmd	-x	14:19
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lardman	afternoon all	14:23
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corecode	satmd: i have the same problem	14:35
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corecode	satmd: there are two solutions: either modify modest/tinymail, or change the smtpd to put sent mails into imap :)	14:36
Arif_	oo	14:37
Arif_	nearly 200 apps in Moomo 5 extras	14:38
YoannL	Hi, is there any way to trigger custom vibration on Maemo 5? (except the MCE d-bus interface)	14:38
Termana	Arif_: I didn't realize Nokia put cows on the n900. I thought they put Maemo the OS. Not Moomo the cows. :P	14:40
Arif_	xD	14:40
Stskeeps	Moomin 5	14:41
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Shut up troll ;)	14:41
range	MooBox in Moomin Extras! Arf, arf!	14:41
Termana	lol	14:41
DocScrutinizer	YoannL: /sys	14:41
Arif_	meh	14:41
Arif_	I woke up too early	14:41
Arif_	I could've slept for 20 more minutes!	14:41
Termana	Whoever said #maemo had NORMAL users?	14:42
Arif_	norwhat?	14:42
Termana	Exactly.	14:42
Termana	:P	14:42
Arif_	oo	14:42
Arif_	Map Loader for Moomo devices is announced...	14:42
tybollt	Arif_: Fuck yeah, do I ever hate that. This morning I woke up like an hour too early and couldn't go back to sleep, grrr	14:43
Stskeeps	you know	14:43
Stskeeps	Moomin would be a lot cooler name for MeeGo.	14:43
tybollt	++	14:43
YoannL	DocScrutinizer: what about /sys ?	14:44
Termana	Stskeeps - I think they are trying to market MeeGo to average users and businesses. Not baboons like us.	14:44
Termana	:P	14:44
* SpeedEvil eats a bananna.		14:44
range	MooGoo?	14:44
Arif_	hmm	14:44
DocScrutinizer	YoannL: there's a vibrator node somewhere, you can 'echo 100 >vib/brightness'	14:44
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* Arif_ thought of some improvements for the media player		14:45
Arif_	:D	14:45
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* SpeedEvil moves Arif_ to brainstorm.		14:45
Arif_	not that big :P	14:45
Arif_	just a "delete" and "send" option in the little playlist when you press the album art	14:46
Arif_	and when you press back ont he upper right	14:46
Arif_	the current playing song is selected	14:46
Arif_	instead of just going to the top	14:46
* Arif_ misses that from S60		14:46
Arif_	would andre__ hit me with a brick if I added those as enhancement bugs? :P	14:48
andre__	either that, or brainstorm if it's non-trivial	14:48
Arif_	if brainstorm is used for these kinds of small things	14:49
Arif_	I'd open one	14:49
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zaheerm	create a brainstorm: improve media player	14:51
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zaheerm	then add solutions for each of your enhancements	14:51
* Arif_ goes looking for an existing brainstorm		14:52
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silverbullet	hi all	14:52
achipa	X-Fade poke (I broke Extras again (C) )	14:54
lardman	ot question, nVidia GTX 275 or wait a while for a GTX 260?	14:54
X-Fade	achipa: Tell me more :)	14:54
silverbullet	lardman?	14:54
lardman	silverbullet: I need a graphics card to try some CUDA stuff	14:54
silverbullet	what do u mean wait for a while	14:55
silverbullet	why wait	14:55
silverbullet	just grab one	14:55
lardman	the 260 is apparently delayed from the supplier	14:55
silverbullet	aha	14:55
achipa	X-Fade: somebody promoted an app (wifieye) depending on my lib (you-know-which), but the lib did not get promoted from testing -> broken apps in Extras	14:56
silverbullet	275 has many more cores than 260 so get one if the additional dollars dont bother u much	14:56
lardman	hmm, nice to see the nVidia page doesn't even realise their new gtx260s have 216 cores	14:56
silverbullet	hehe	14:56
X-Fade	achipa: Hmm let me check why it didn't get promoted then.	14:56
achipa	prolly a side-effect of the qt blockade	14:56
silverbullet	go for 275	14:56
X-Fade	achipa: no, should not.	14:56
X-Fade	achipa: I made sure wifieye worked on PR1.2	14:57
lardman	silverbullet: 260 is supposed to be a downgraded 280 (due to dodgy cores, etc.), was wondering if the 280/260 arch is better than the 275	14:57
X-Fade	achipa: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/wifieye/0.5.0-1/	14:57
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silverbullet	i am pretty sure thats not the case that 260 is going to be better than 275	14:58
lardman	yeah I wouldn't think so, but was just wondering	14:58
achipa	X-Fade: yep, but the python2.5-qt4-* deps did not get promoted	14:58
X-Fade	achipa: Interface shows them?	14:58
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achipa	X-Fade: ah, I think I see the problem - when I click on the dep, I get the package that was erased from Extras	14:59
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achipa	maybe the dep checker 'accepted' that as a valid package so did not pull in the newer ones currently in testing	15:00
X-Fade	achipa: hmm yeah, need to check if it looks at the 'deleted' status.	15:01
X-Fade	achipa: But let me push the packages into extras manually.	15:02
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achipa	X-Fade: ok... just be careful as it's a multi-package... umm... package (so we don't shoot ourselves in the foot when the remaining python2.5-qt4-* packages get promoted)	15:03
X-Fade	achipa: the maemo7 versions work on PR1.2 at least.	15:03
achipa	X-Fade: yay ! :) It might be good to have it fully in PR1.1 Extras too, otherwise dep-funk could ensue	15:05
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* Arif_ wobbles off to uni		15:05
Shapeshifter	would someone like to activate my extras-devel uploading request ;) Or should I just wait?	15:05
X-Fade	Shapeshifter: lol, 2 minutes response time ;)	15:06
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V13	achipa: that would be me :-)	15:07
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Shapeshifter	X-Fade: :D	15:08
Shapeshifter	thanks	15:08
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lardman	bbl	15:09
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achipa	V13: hi there :) there is some fallout from my previous 'I borked Extras' episode, but nothing serious :)	15:10
V13	I also show that pyqt was not promoted but I thought it was just the interface that lagged.	15:11
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pupnik	http://wejp.k.vu/category/ben-nanonote cute tiny tiny linux clamshell	15:11
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Shapeshifter	this whole build system is well interesting...	15:15
achipa	V13: long story short - there was a version of pyqt in extras that got deleted, but the promotion mechanism might have not be aware (of the deleted status) so it did not promote the version from testing	15:16
V13	oh... let's shoot the promotion mechanism :-)	15:16
V13	i guess this is a custom made mechanism, because debian would go the opposite way: wifieye would be promoted when all its dependencies were promoted.	15:17
V13	btw, isn't there any karma for developing apps ?	15:18
zaheerm	V13, there is i think...but they need to be in extras to get karma	15:19
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dregin	Is it possible to force maemo's media player app to re-scan my memory card for music?	15:19
V13	zaheerm... well.. i don't get :)	15:19
X-Fade	V13: Takes up to 2 days.	15:19
dregin	for some reason it can't see any since I installed the extra decoders	15:19
V13	oh!	15:19
V13	x-fade: thanks	15:19
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Shapeshifter	mhh. So, why exactly did this fail? https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/alarmed_0.1.3-1/i386.root.log.FAILED.txt I made the tar.gz, dsc and .changes files using py2deb. Apart from the gpg issue I don't really see what's wrong.	15:20
V13	Shapeshifter: missing dependencies?	15:21
Shapeshifter	V13: the dependencies are: python2.5, pyside-qt4-base, pyside-qt4-core, pyside-qt4-maemo5, pyside-qt4-gui	15:21
V13	build-dep	15:21
X-Fade	Shapeshifter: build-depends?	15:21
Shapeshifter	X-Fade: mhh, I followed the Py2deb wikipage. it doesn't say anything about build-depends. And my app doesn't need any, it's python	15:23
jebba	odd the log doesnt show the missing build dep	15:23
lizardo	Shapeshifter: you NEED build-depends even for python	15:24
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lizardo	Shapeshifter: they should list dependencies needed for constructing the debian package	15:24
lizardo	Shapeshifter: so you need to at least put "python" there	15:24
X-Fade	achipa: core and gui promoted, now waiting for things to catch up.	15:25
Shapeshifter	lizardo: so, python2.5 is not enough, I also need python in build depends?	15:25
lizardo	Shapeshifter: did you put "Build-Depends: python2.5" ?	15:25
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Shapeshifter	lizardo: no, I used py2deb and it doesn't say anything about that. But I'll find out how to add build-depends using py2deb	15:26
Shapeshifter	thanks	15:26
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lizardo	Shapeshifter: now looking at your source... I don't think this is the case	15:27
achipa	X-Fade: (Y), but there is an indirect dep, too: -common	15:27
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X-Fade	achipa: Got auto promoted.	15:28
Shapeshifter	lizardo: I used this thing: http://wiki.maemo.org/Py2deb#Setup_the_build_myapp.py_code and there I listed the dependencies and stuff. build-depends doesn't appear in the wiki, but I guess there's some p.build_depends or so for it.	15:28
X-Fade	achipa: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/python2.5-qt4-common/4.7-maemo7/	15:28
lizardo	Shapeshifter: now I see... your source package looks buggy	15:28
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lizardo	Shapeshifter: intead of unpacking to a "alarmed-0.1" directory, it unpacks the debian and src directories directly	15:29
achipa	X-Fade: great. What about the other packages ? I guess they won't be promotable either before PR1.2 ?	15:30
lizardo	Shapeshifter: can you pastebin your py2deb configuration ?	15:30
lizardo	Shapeshifter: note use something like http://pastebin.com	15:30
X-Fade	achipa: Which ones?	15:30
Tahitibob35	hi, python-location is in extras-testing, but does not appear in the extras-testing list(http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/)	15:31
Tahitibob35	So, no tester can see it and vote for it.....	15:31
achipa	the, umm, rest... -network, -gl, -sql, etc etc	15:31
X-Fade	Tahitibob35: That is because it is not a user package.	15:31
Tahitibob35	ok	15:31
lizardo	Tahitibob35: you shouldn't vote for non user packages	15:31
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Tahitibob35	thx	15:32
X-Fade	Tahitibob35: non-user packages get promoted automatically with user apps.	15:32
X-Fade	for now ;)	15:32
X-Fade	achipa: It depends, if an app depends on -network ( >= 4.7-maemo7) they will.	15:33
achipa	X-Fade: I already have 2 user/* packages in testing that are just waiting for enough t-ups (the python2.5-qt4 which depends on all, and the -doc which is also a demo)	15:33
achipa	X-Fade: trouble is people often omit versions in the deps	15:33
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X-Fade	achipa: Yeah, but this will be fixed with the maintainer interface anyway.	15:34
X-Fade	achipa: As I committed to for this Sprint.	15:34
achipa	X-Fade: cool	15:35
achipa	ok, so off I go to lobby for testers :)	15:35
X-Fade	achipa: Still not sure if python2.5-qt4 should be a user app.	15:35
X-Fade	achipa: It is ugly and good at the same time ;)	15:36
achipa	X-Fade: it's a borderline case, I admit, but I do think there are more pros than cons	15:36
achipa	X-Fade: BTW have you read my mail to the testingsquad list ? regarding how multi-package promotions can cause dependency hell ?	15:37
Shapeshifter	lizardo: http://pastie.org/853422 this is the build_alarmed.py as I used it for the failed build. I now tried adding p.build_depends but ran into other problems. I'm looking for solutions atm.	15:38
X-Fade	achipa: no, sorry i'm not on that list. Probably should though.	15:38
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Shapeshifter	lizardo: well, build was 1 for the initial release, not 2 as I made it now.	15:39
achipa	X-Fade: okay, in short: wifi eye got maemo7 versions of common, core and gui promoted to extras	15:39
achipa	X-Fade: now, I upload a maemo8 version, and FooApp get promoted, but it uses common, core and network	15:40
X-Fade	achipa: Once the admin interface is there, the maintainer of the lib plans promotion.	15:40
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achipa	X-Fade: ok, If you say it solves this problem, I believe you :)	15:41
X-Fade	achipa: So you can push your versions in at a certain time. And people using your libs need to wait for them to be available.	15:41
mikkov	achipa: send important mails to -developers :)	15:41
achipa	mikkov: okay, okay :)	15:41
X-Fade	achipa: Current setup is just so that most simple promotions work without having a lot of people working on it.	15:41
X-Fade	achipa: Something needed to be in place quickly before fremantle release. Now we can improve on that.	15:42
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mikkov	javispedro: could you upload sdlgles to extras-devel	15:43
V13	achipa: what you mentioned can be solved by making your packages depend on exact versions of each other. This way, if you put maemo8 in testing and an app that depends on that is promoted, then this one will cause other maemo8 packages to be promoted replacing maemo7. No?	15:43
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achipa	V13: not with the current scheme (that's the problem, it's not apt), but X-Fade says the new admin UI will solve this, so, fingers crossed :)	15:45
V13	oh.	15:46
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X-Fade	achipa: We now promote minimal dependencies, out of ease. It should be the other way around, but that only works if there are active maintainers for these dependencies.	15:46
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X-Fade	achipa: And we don't have that for a large number of dependencies atm.	15:47
achipa	yeah, (py)qt is a bit of an icebreaker in that regard as it's one of the few packages that has an extensive dependency net...	15:48
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mikkov	the promoter use about the same logic as Application Manager for updates which is good	15:48
mikkov	the logic is not good though :)	15:49
X-Fade	Most people upload a lib because they need it, but not want to maintain it.	15:49
X-Fade	This is what makes it hard.	15:49
lizardo	Shapeshifter: as I said, I don't think anymore it is related to build-depends	15:50
lizardo	Shapeshifter: it is something to do with the .tar.gz tarball generation	15:50
Shapeshifter	lizardo: mhh. what's missing?	15:52
pupnik	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLsN92YPRDs pretty use of accelerometer in a Nintendo DSi game	15:52
lcuk	X-Fade, a community solution to that problem, like the bugsquad - but a small group of people who watch the community ports might be an idea	15:52
lizardo	Shapeshifter: I think the tarball is slightly broken (not sure if it is py2deb fault or something missing on your py2deb .py file)	15:53
lizardo	Shapeshifter: note that I never used py2deb	15:53
X-Fade	lcuk: Yeah, you need some community maintainers for packages.	15:53
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Shapeshifter	lizardo: mhh.	15:53
X-Fade	I hope to create the tools for that.	15:53
lcuk	X-Fade, of course cool	15:54
lizardo	Shapeshifter: hmmm, I think my guess was wrong ... just tried unpack your sources and they unpacked fine	15:55
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lizardo	Shapeshifter: but trying to build it by hand gave:	15:55
lizardo	dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: syntax error in control file debian/control at line 13: continued value line not in field	15:55
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lizardo	Shapeshifter: looking at that error line, I see that your package description is broken	15:56
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lizardo	Shapeshifter: it has a spuprious newline	15:56
lizardo	Shapeshifter: try removing the \n's from lines 23,24,25	15:56
lizardo	Shapeshifter: (Python adds those newlines automatically, so you don't need to add them)	15:57
lizardo	Shapeshifter: either that, or put everything under a single line	15:57
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lizardo	Shapeshifter: as used on the Py2Deb documentation	15:57
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Shapeshifter	removing only the \ns didn't work. trying a single line now.	16:01
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fzfq3m	Hi there guys..	16:02
fzfq3m	I want to Wipe my N900... and I found a Nokia support thread that explain how to do it... it suggest to reflash both: Firmware and 32Gb part...	16:03
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fzfq3m	I'm just confused on what firmware should I pick... the US version or the Global one??	16:04
mgedmin	well, where are you, fzfq3m?	16:04
mgedmin	since I don't live in the US, I picked the global version	16:04
fzfq3m	My N900 keyboard is us US I guess	16:04
mgedmin	keyboard doesn't matter	16:04
mgedmin	actually I'm not sure what exactly differs between those versions	16:05
fzfq3m	mgedmin: That´s what I'm thinking but I wanted to be sure	16:05
fzfq3m	A last question: Should I Flash firmware image firts and then flash the eMMC content image after, or what?	16:06
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mgedmin	also a good question	16:07
X-Fade	fzfq3m: doesn't matter if you don't boot in between flashes.	16:07
mgedmin	that's what I did	16:07
mgedmin	I even booted between flashes	16:07
mgedmin	but it seemed to turn out all right anyway	16:07
X-Fade	mgedmin: Yes, but if you flash emmc first, boot and then flash firmware. The emmc isn't entirely clean anymore.	16:08
fzfq3m	Thanks guys... I will follow X-Fade suggestion	16:08
X-Fade	It just depends on how factory default you want it ;)	16:08
X-Fade	All asuming you are flashing the same versions you are already runnning.	16:09
Shapeshifter	lizardo: nope, still failing, even with everything on one line without any newlines.	16:09
X-Fade	Shapeshifter: tried lintian against the source package?	16:09
Shapeshifter	https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/alarmed_0.1.3-1/ http://pastie.org/853468 <- build_alarmed.py	16:09
Shapeshifter	X-Fade: lintian?	16:09
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lizardo	Shapeshifter: it might be failing with something else now	16:11
lizardo	Shapeshifter: but the original error was certainly because of the newlines (as I paste the error for you)	16:11
fzfq3m	X-Fade: I will use RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin (Global version), and want to have my N900 completely clean... a mean factory settings	16:11
Shapeshifter	lizardo: okay	16:11
X-Fade	fzfq3m: That is fine, just make sure you flash the emmc too then.	16:12
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lizardo	X-Fade: looks like the sbmock is not saving all the errors ... if you look at Shapeshifter's build log, the one marked as FAILED is not what failed actually	16:12
fzfq3m	sure: For that i will use RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Am I right??	16:12
lizardo	X-Fade: it failing at the very beginning of "dpkg-buildpackage"	16:13
X-Fade	lizardo: I'm thinking missing make or configure or something like that?	16:13
lizardo	X-Fade: no... the first error was a debian/control syntax error, but sbdmock and/or autobuilder scripts didn't pick it up	16:14
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lizardo	X-Fade: instead there was only a "root.FAILED" log wich actually does not contain any error message	16:14
X-Fade	Shapeshifter: Last build still had newlines in your control file.	16:15
lizardo	X-Fade: so at some point I understand why Shapeshifter was not noticing the error just by looking at the autobuilder failed logs :)	16:15
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X-Fade	lizardo: Yeah, I'm not sure why dpkb-buildpackage doesn't show an error.	16:15
lizardo	X-Fade: running "dpkg-buildpackage" locally returned the error	16:16
X-Fade	Shapeshifter: And your bugtracker field is broken too.	16:16
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X-Fade	Shapeshifter: Are you sure you are using the latest py2deb? Khertan fixed that bug iirc.	16:17
lizardo	X-Fade: my guess: sbdmock first tries to get the build depends assuming the debian/control file syntax is ok	16:17
lizardo	X-Fade: so it in fact ignores the stderr of that command	16:17
X-Fade	lizardo: My guess is that the control file only has 5 lines.	16:18
lizardo	X-Fade: so it is failing between the rootstrap setup and the build dependency installation, and sbdmock does not save logs for that...	16:18
X-Fade	lizardo: As it stops after the \n\n	16:18
lizardo	X-Fade: yes, I know that. I'm just pointing that the autobuilder logs are not recording that	16:18
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X-Fade	lizardo: I'd have to ask Ed.	16:19
lizardo	X-Fade: and given that it is all that uncommon to insert syntax errors on debian/control, it would be nice to try to get those errors	16:19
lizardo	"all that" -> "not all that"	16:19
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mmgcs	where (a forum, channel, et cetera) is the best place to ask N900 "user" question (e.g. Is there a way to snap contacts on the desktop to a grid?)	16:22
Corsac	mmgcs: use tweakr	16:22
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mgedmin	mmgcs, here, I think	16:27
V13	achipa: ping	16:28
achipa	V13: pong	16:28
V13	I've a pyqt related q in case you know...	16:28
V13	may be qt only though.	16:28
achipa	shoot	16:29
V13	I've a sample mainwindow and it shows a dialog... now everything is ok, unless I do this for the mainwindow: self.setStyleSheet(""" """). Then the dialog is messed up	16:29
achipa	though, if it's qt, more qt hats in #qt-maemo	16:29
mgedmin	mmgcs, snapping to grid exists, but the grid is 4x4 pixels ...	16:29
Shapeshifter	X-Fade: mhh, it's the newest version apparently.	16:30
achipa	yep, qt thing :) Pyqt just wraps, does not interfere with what qt does	16:30
mgedmin	mmgcs, you can change the grid size by editing (as root) some file somewhere	16:30
V13	yeah... thanks anyway.	16:30
achipa	recommendation stands: ask in #qt-maemo	16:31
mgedmin	mmgcs, it's described here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5372	16:31
povbot	Bug 5372: Can't easily align desktop widgets (snap to position) on home screens	16:31
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V13	achipa: I will	16:31
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SpeedEvil	you can set the right frob in the config file and it works	16:37
SpeedEvil	40 pix is about right IMO	16:37
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AndrewFBlack	Stskeeps: Its my time to bug you again	16:46
* Stskeeps ponders idly when his wife comes home		16:46
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Stskeeps	AndrewFBlack: going to look at it now, i don't have anything better to do	16:47
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AndrewFBlack	Stskeeps: I'm sure their is always something better to do but I wont complain about you looking at it :)	16:48
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Stskeeps	AndrewFBlack: right, so theme creation is your theme package together with tools (hildon-theme-tools) and layout package (hildon-theme-layout-5)	17:02
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Stskeeps	or sec..	17:03
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Shapeshifter	lizardo, X-Fade: thanks guys for the help. I guess I did some stupid thing because the file I uploaded didn't have the changes (removed newlines) that I did put in my source file... Anyway, it built OK now :)	17:05
X-Fade	Shapeshifter: Heh, well at least it worked now :)	17:05
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Stskeeps	ok, so you'll need to fork hildon-theme-layout-5, like hildon-theme-layout-5-afb, and alter the rc/base.rc file in there to point to a new gtk-icon-theme-name.. and then ask Meizirkki how he made a icon theme.. that icon theme has to inherit from 'hicolor'	17:06
Stskeeps	and then you point your theme to build-depend on hildon-theme-layout-5-afb instead and depend on your new icon theme	17:07
Stskeeps	that's roughly how you do it	17:07
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Sounds easy ;)	17:08
AndrewFBlack	Stskeeps: ok	17:09
Stskeeps	i hoped i could include it in the theme template but it looks like the original template prevents me from doing so.	17:10
Stskeeps	er, original layout	17:10
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AndrewFBlack	reading all that makes me want to do it like I did it back in the Diablo days and just build package my self after I cut theme apart to just include the icon files in the new package. Keeps from me from making a new layout and template	17:14
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AndrewFBlack	basiclly what I did in daiblo days was to build theme to have template cut apart and all files generated, then I unpacked .deb and added icon files and modified theme files. Then used py2deb to build source package again then upload.	17:16
Stskeeps	yeah, i'm trying to figure out if there's a better way	17:17
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Shapeshifter	Mhh. But for some reason my alarmed.py doesn't have o+x. the one I've put in the package. Do I have to care about file permissions upon packaging?	17:18
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akeripper	should you format your cdcard when it previously have been in a s60(n82)?	17:20
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AndrewFBlack	I still like my idea > http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45964 that gives you a program that lets you customize your theme one peice at a time.	17:21
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Stskeeps	AndrewFBlack: if you can, try out to make /usr/share/icons/themename/ and mimic the structure in /usr/share/icons/hicolor	17:24
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AndrewFBlack	Stskeeps: ok	17:26
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Stskeeps	AndrewFBlack: it might actually pick up those icons first	17:26
Stskeeps	if it does, we can do tricks directly in the template	17:27
AndrewFBlack	I don't know about in maemo5 but on diablo it would pick on the in theme named folder first and any missing ones it would revert to /hicolor	17:27
Stskeeps	yeah, let's see if this still exists	17:28
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AndrewFBlack	going to have to wait til I get home don't have network access on my n900 at work to ssh into it.	17:29
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AndrewFBlack	stupid company network requires me to enroll my root cert to get on work network so only windows	17:30
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ptl	AndrewFBlack: what's your scheme? EAP-TLS?	17:39
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AndrewFBlack	ptl?	17:40
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AndrewFBlack	ptl: ?	17:41
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ptl	AndrewFBlack: for the network in your job, that forces you to enroll	17:43
AndrewFBlack	ptl: not sure what you mean by scheme?	17:43
mmgcs	is there an option in MfE to go back to the Inbox (or source folder) after deleting an email (from the email reading screen) - as opposed to it moving to the next email?	17:45
ptl	authentication schema	17:45
ptl	LEAP, EAP-TLS, PEAP and so on	17:45
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timeless_mbp	mmgcs: MfE isn't a mail app	17:46
timeless_mbp	it's a sync transport	17:46
timeless_mbp	the mail app is modest, it's 100% open source	17:46
timeless_mbp	and if you have issues w/ it, you can write patches	17:46
timeless_mbp	which reminds me, i need to bug the devs	17:46
mmgcs	ok, sorry, the mail app	17:46
AndrewFBlack	ptl: I'm not sure any idea how I find out?	17:46
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timeless_mbp	mmgcs: so, http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/modest/ is the source for the version we shipped in fremantle sales iirc	17:48
AndrewFBlack	ptl: looks like EAP	17:48
mmgcs	timeless_mbp: thanks	17:48
timeless_mbp	i have a cross reference of trunk somewhere too, because i wrote patch for it sometime this year, but i don't remember which xref hosts it	17:48
ptl	AndrewFBlack: it seems to be EAP-TLS, by the need to 'enroll' your certificate. But N900 has support for EAP-TLS, so it should work	17:48
ptl	source for modest? isn't it closed-source?	17:49
SpeedEvil	(03:46:17 PM) timeless_mbp: the mail app is modest, it's 100% open source	17:49
ptl	good, I didn't know that, I thought it followed the ways of the media player	17:50
timeless_mbp	nope	17:50
Shapeshifter	So, I still don't understand this. My app, alarmed.py, has 755 permissions on my machine. When I make the package using py2deb and then upload it to autobuilder, it makes the package allright, it goes to extras-devel, but after installation, the user can't launch it because it has 644 permissions...	17:50
timeless_mbp	the mail team managed to get it right for their rewrite	17:50
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timeless_mbp	the browser team tried and failed	17:50
Shapeshifter	Do I have to do something special to give the .py app proper permissions?	17:50
andre__	ptl: http://gitorious.org/modest	17:50
timeless_mbp	the media player team only tried to get the framework opened for fremantle, and i think they succeeded	17:50
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AndrewFBlack	ptl: I think other problem I'm running into when I try to connect it is asking for WEP but I am told to tell device The Key is automatically provided but I don't think n900 has that option	17:51
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ptl	AndrewFBlack: that's because in windows mobile you do it this way... A very stupid way, I think. I still have an old Windows Mobile phone, it took me months to realize that you should tell it that the EAP-TLS is a 'WEP with automatically provided key' and configure the certificate elsewhere.	17:52
ptl	AndrewFBlack: that was one of the less user-friendly interface issues I have ever found	17:52
Shapeshifter	nevermind	17:52
timeless_mbp	AndrewFBlack: that probably means you need to install the key manually first :)	17:53
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ptl	no, there's no key at all	17:54
ptl	only the certificate	17:54
timeless_mbp	s/key/cert/	17:54
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: AndrewFBlack: that probably means you need to install the cert manually first :)	17:54
ptl	and its password	17:54
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Shapeshifter	chmod +x /home/user/MyDocs/alarmed/src/opt/alarmed/alarmed.py; ls -lah /home/user/MyDocs/alarmed/src/opt/alarmed/alarmed.py -> permissions are 644. Can stuff on the MyDocs partition not be +x?	17:57
AndrewFBlack	I installed Cert, setup connection with the SSID for the network, set it up as WPA with EAP and set EAP type as TLS still asks for WEP when I try to connect	17:58
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V13	Shapeshifter: No. It is a vfat partition that doesn't support permissions.	17:58
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AndrewFBlack	it does ask for a certificate during setup but none show their	17:59
Shapeshifter	V13: okay. the py2dev tutorial is broken then ;) might fix it once I get this build working. it says I could put stuff in a MyDocs subdir and set permissions	17:59
V13	Perhaps it was referring to the SDK ?	17:59
V13	AndrewFBlack: what's the problem ?	18:00
ptl	is it possible to set a file as a block device under MyDocs and format it as ext2/ext3 and mount as a loop device to get more executable stuff into the device?	18:00
Shapeshifter	V13: actually it's quite specifically writte with people in mind who want to build the package on the n900	18:00
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AndrewFBlack	V13: trying to connect n900 to network that requires a root cert to be enrolled first	18:01
V13	enrolled ?	18:01
V13	ptl: I believe that's what easydebian does.	18:02
AndrewFBlack	ptl: btw it is EPA/TLS just read that on guide for windows mobile	18:02
ptl	V13: yeah, but without booting into a new OS, just for a few extra executables :)	18:02
V13	AndrewFBlack: I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to do and what is your problem.	18:02
V13	ptl: I meant: If easydebian does it, then why not you ?	18:03
ptl	AndrewFBlack: my job also supposedly supports EAP/TLS but I never got it to work, from the laptop, mobile or amything	18:03
ptl	and I did get the .p12 certificate and such	18:03
AndrewFBlack	I think one thing is only option on n900 I see for EAP is WPA-with EAP but I need WEP with EAP	18:04
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V13	I've EAP/TLS working so it can be done... BUT: It seems to have a bug with certificates that don't have a password. I couldn't make that work.	18:04
V13	WEP with EAP?	18:05
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V13	I believe there is no such thing.	18:06
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AndrewFBlack	Its the options they tell you use to use on Windows Mobile, trying to use my companys windows guide to connect n900 lol	18:06
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Arif_	mmm	18:07
Arif_	pizza	18:08
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Stskeeps	just ordered kfc	18:08
Arif_	and why must busses be so full between 16-18!	18:08
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Stskeeps	rush hour :P	18:08
Arif_	meh	18:08
ptl	AndrewFBlack: never mind about this "WEP" stuff, it's just windows mobile lame way of making that work	18:08
Arif_	I sat next to someone with loud music	18:09
Arif_	so I put mine louder than his :D	18:09
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ptl	announcement	18:11
ptl	http://www.nokian900applications.com/meego-will-be-compatible-with-nokia-n900/	18:11
Arif_	rumors!	18:11
ptl	Meego will be compatible with the Nokia N900	18:11
ptl	wow.	18:11
toggles_w	awwww	18:11
Arif_	damnit	18:11
Arif_	I so hoped it wouldn't be ;(	18:11
ptl	it seems official	18:11
ptl	lol	18:11
Arif_	it gave me an excuse to waste money on a new device :D	18:11
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toggles_w	ptl: http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/towards-day-one	18:12
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ptl	that's great news, I don't feel abandoned anymore.	18:14
arnor	Maemo + Moblin = Meego, no? ;]	18:14
Arif_	pretty much	18:14
arnor	Moblin, is it Debian-based?	18:14
AndrewFBlack	wonder my certificat is not showing up for me to select when setting up connection	18:14
Shapeshifter	of course it will.	18:15
Shapeshifter	arnor: no it is not.	18:15
ptl	AndrewFBlack: was it a .p12 certificate?	18:15
ptl	AndrewFBlack: mine has shown up	18:15
ptl	AndrewFBlack: but the connection didn't work.	18:15
ptl	I don't have the slightest idea why.	18:15
ptl	Everything seemed ok.	18:16
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ptl	Anyone knows where can I see the logs for that? /var/log/messages?	18:16
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AndrewFBlack	ptl: name of file is SoCo_Root_Certificate.cer	18:17
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ptl	.cer?	18:17
ptl	I think you need a user certificate, a client certificate and a private key	18:18
ptl	the .p12 file has all three in it	18:18
ptl	.cer is just one certificate, in PEM format if I recall it correctly	18:18
ptl	btw	18:19
ptl	about this meego stuff	18:19
ptl	is there someone here to whom I could say 'THANKS'?	18:19
ptl	:P I am very happy about this.	18:19
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AndrewFBlack	ptl: I think that is purpose of the enroll.exe file for windows mobile I think it gets the other certificates for you from network	18:21
ptl	AndrewFBlack: oh, I see	18:21
AndrewFBlack	I guess I'm stuck getting a Windows Mobile PDA for use at work	18:22
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ptl	AndrewFBlack: if you get the three files (maybe from your windows mobile) and get someone who understands openssl and certificates to do it for you, you can generate a .p12 file to use in the N900.	18:24
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AndrewFBlack	ptl: ok now just to find a windows mobile device that is overly expensive or a phone lol	18:25
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AndrewFBlack	I wonder if I could get a SmartQ V7 to connect at work on Windows Ce	18:32
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ptl	question	18:48
ptl	if I reformat the N900 to use a larger applications partition and a ext2 MyDocs partition, will it work?	18:49
Arif_	the camera wont	18:49
cehteh	depends, not out of the box	18:49
cehteh	camera problem can be fixed	18:50
Arif_	and wind00z wont read it :P	18:50
cehteh	(just permission problem)	18:50
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* cehteh reformated everything to ext3 meanwhile		18:50
* Arif_ just leaves it as is :D		18:50
cehteh	tried ext4 .. which is almost double as fast! .. but needs custom kernel which may make problems	18:51
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cehteh	you need to hack some scripts and configs to make reformatting work	18:51
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ptl	what's a goodies developer, kalikiana?	18:57
ptl	cehteh: hack scripts and configs? wouldn't it break on each update?	18:57
* Shapeshifter definetly needs to improve his uploading/testing cycle to extras-devel -.-		18:59
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apol	is it possible to install maps over-the-air using the map application?	19:00
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Shapeshifter	putting the sources into a tar.gz, uploading them, downloading them on the n900, unpacking, running py2deb, uploading the results, downloading them on the laptop, uploading them to autobuilder from there, and installing it from the repo on the n900 after that is somewhat suboptimal >.>	19:00
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apol	>.<	19:03
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oilinki	has this Microsoft error reporting system been implemented with Maemo platform yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc4j3pEoMXY	19:06
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cehteh	ptl: not on each, but yes can happen	19:11
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bashee_	Haha	19:14
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kalikiana	ptl, goodies in Xfce are basically additions you may like but which are not needed for a base install	19:17
kalikiana	and you can guess what a goodie developer does :-)	19:18
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ptl	kalikiana: ok :)	19:28
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aep	i wonder if there is an adapter to plug in a 5.5" cable into the microphone input for guitar tuning :D	19:34
aep	i bet it would fry the soundchip	19:34
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SpeedEvil	For tuning - any mic will do	19:36
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lucent	aep: impedences are different	19:38
lucent	otherwise it should work	19:38
lucent	you want a "direct box" converter common in guitar live stage setups	19:38
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aep	SpeedEvil: not really. either the tuning app sucks or putting the phone in the same room as the amp is not how it works	19:38
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aep	besides you can't play on an amp on stage while tuning	19:39
n00bmonk3y	hmmmm any pulseaudio experts here? :D	19:40
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aep	lucent: you sure i can plug it into a DI output? oO i though that would be 50 Ohm and with quite some power.	19:41
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aep	i rather dont try. heh	19:42
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Khertan	Rahhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!l! This QA Testing process will made me crazy !	19:45
Arif_	I let my N900 fall from 20 stairs today...	19:45
Arif_	o.o	19:45
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Khertan	Something will be made quickly to improve that !	19:45
Khertan	?	19:45
Khertan	this is borring ...	19:45
Khertan	harassing !	19:45
Arif_	what's wrong with it :P	19:45
Khertan	and is stupid !	19:45
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Khertan	rules changes everytimes	19:46
Khertan	no one test	19:46
Khertan	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/pygtkeditor/3.0.14-1/	19:46
Khertan	no vote	19:46
Khertan	this sucks ! really !	19:46
cehteh	Arif_: better 20 stairs than 20 stories :)	19:46
Arif_	it seems that nothings wrong with it:D	19:46
Khertan	i i m furious ....	19:46
Khertan	fighting	19:47
Khertan	i tired of fightinh	19:47
Khertan	and will stop to try to make things available in extras !	19:47
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Khertan	making is own repository is far easier and quicker	19:47
* Arif_ votes for it :P		19:47
Khertan	and putting a link in maemo with an install file is easy	19:47
Stskeeps	Khertan: qa is there for a reason	19:48
Stskeeps	to not let buggy sw get into extras	19:48
Khertan	currently i pass more time trying to publish things than fixing bug	19:48
Khertan	stskeeps: false !	19:48
Stskeeps	Khertan: no, not false	19:49
cehteh	where is the QA process documented?	19:49
ptl	Arif_: 20 stairs? You mean 20 steps, isn't it? Do you have any kind of protective case?	19:49
* cehteh just doesnt care .. i write what i use myself :P		19:49
Arif_	yes, and no	19:49
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zaheerm	i find it much easier to submit my package to autobuilder	19:49
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zaheerm	than to create own repo	19:50
Arif_	Khertan have you considered Ovi!	19:50
Venomrush	hey guys	19:50
Venomrush	quick qeustion	19:50
ali1234	setting up a repo is trivial compared to fighting the autobuilder	19:50
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ali1234	and extras process	19:50
Venomrush	if there are contacts in SIM	19:50
Venomrush	does the n900 show them by default?	19:50
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Venomrush	or have an option to only show these SIM contacts?	19:51
cehteh	you can import them to the addressbook .. iirc it doesnt show then, but i am not sure	19:51
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Venomrush	i know you can import them	19:51
Khertan_	[18:50] <Khertan> currently i pass more time trying to publish things than fixing bugn[18:50] <Khertan> stskeeps: false !n[18:50] <Khertan> it s just here to force dev to create their own repositoryn[18:51] <Khertan> and as i said it doesn t help as the time i pass to pusblish things isn t time use to implement new feature and fix bugs	19:51
cehteh	well i did that once and never cared again :P	19:52
n00bmonk3y	lol khertan, i'm testing it now :) - been using it all day :D	19:52
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Venomrush	just happened when i was abroad i wanted to see just the contacts on the sim	19:52
Venomrush	there was no way	19:52
Venomrush	i had to import	19:52
Venomrush	which took 15 mins :\	19:52
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Venomrush	the sim was specific to that country, i just wanted to see the contact/number to show credit	19:52
Venomrush	but had to import the entire sim entries	19:52
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Khertan_	Or maybe i should just made one app .... an installer that will download and install my apps ... will be easier and pass this -4_5#6(7 qa test	19:53
ali1234	submit a package that just adds your repo :)	19:53
Khertan_	ali1234. yep this is the idea	19:54
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ali1234	i did once consider making a package that would do that	19:54
ali1234	but since i would have to add first the repo to get my package, it was chicken and egg situation	19:54
KFurious	but with an ui as you can t put package without ui in user/section	19:55
ali1234	you can if you run your own repo	19:55
KFurious	as elsewhere it will be refuse in qa test	19:55
ali1234	the state of extras is pretty bad	19:55
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KFurious	clearly ... this sucks	19:55
n00bmonk3y	:)	19:55
ali1234	there QA process is totally wrong, and so all the good apps are stuck in testing and devel	19:55
n00bmonk3y	lol awww thankee venom for voting up healthcheck - bet it will get rejected due to the bugtracker in the end though :(	19:56
KFurious	now i can understand why sio2interactive cheat on the qa process	19:56
ali1234	first thing i have to do after reflashing N900 is add a bunch of repos to it	19:56
KFurious	maybe we should do a developper league to vote between us for others app !	19:58
KFurious	or should we create our own repository ... and publish our app exclusively on it ... forcing users which want usefull app force them to add our repository	19:58
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GeneralAntilles	Ah, what a nice little conversation here.	20:00
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ljp_	i think that might take jailbreaking your n900 :)	20:02
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kFurious4	[18:59] <KFurious> maybe we should do a developper league to vote between us for others app !n[19:00] <KFurious> or should we create our own repository ... and publish our app exclusively on it ... forcing users which want usefull app force them to add our repositoryn[19:01] <KFurious> ~ping	20:03
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Pillum	what is the shortcut for autocomplete with xchat?	20:04
cehteh	... still no one pointed me out how QA works ..	20:04
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kFurious4	~ping	20:04
infobot	~pong	20:04
cehteh	Pillum: ctrl-space here .. but i think i configured it...	20:04
cehteh	somewhere, forgotten where :)	20:05
Pillum	yeah....seems so	20:05
kFurious4	grrr since the tempest the 3g network coverage is really bad	20:05
Pillum	for me it is changing input language	20:05
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cehteh	Pillum: settings->advacned->..	20:05
cehteh	yes someone told that to me	20:06
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Pillum	it says "tab"	20:06
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Pillum	which one is the tabulator? :)	20:06
cehteh	yeah you have no tab key	20:06
cehteh	i remapped the tab to shift space .. bit strangely that didnt worked on xchat	20:06
kFurious4	So does there is other dev by making/using a common repository ?	20:07
cehteh	(but works in emacs :P)	20:07
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kFurious4	So does there is other dev interested by making/using a common repository ?	20:07
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cehteh	kFurious4: i would if i had useful software to share	20:07
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n00bmonk3y	ooo GeneralAntilles spoke and my mirc died.... odd :\|	20:08
* Pillum jumps		20:08
* n00bmonk3y blinks		20:08
Pillum	:(	20:08
n00bmonk3y	:D	20:08
cehteh	Pillum: you can define your favorite shortcut for it	20:09
Pillum	yeah i know	20:09
Pillum	but there was already a preconfigured one	20:09
Pillum	and it worked	20:09
cehteh	yes?	20:10
Pillum	but i dont know it....	20:10
Pillum	and the keyboard shortcuts dont work either	20:11
pupnik_	kFurious4: there are a couple out thee	20:11
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cehteh	mhm ... works for me	20:14
GeneralAntilles	kFurious4, yeah, it's called Extras. . . .	20:15
cehteh	haha	20:16
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kFurious4	GeneralAntilles it s will be called Extras Plus	20:17
kFurious4	or Better Extras	20:17
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kFurious4	or maybe Extras with apps in it	20:17
GeneralAntilles	If you have issues with the QA process, address the QA process.	20:18
cehteh	ExtraExtras :)	20:18
kFurious4	Hahaha are you serious	20:18
mikkov	QA is all about guarding that all bugtracker links are following thre rules (yes, there is rules)	20:18
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kFurious4	who take the decision on this rules ?	20:19
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cehteh	maybe maemo should attract packagers additionally to developers .. i feel it always pita to package things	20:19
mikkov	who ever happens to write to the wiki page	20:19
nid0	everyone has a hand in deciding the qa rules, if you want to change them, propose changes.	20:20
kFurious4	i ve add my think in the discussion of the pagbe	20:20
kFurious4	s/think/thought	20:20
mikkov	nowadays rules are mostly changes without proposing or agreeing anything	20:20
kFurious4	cehteh specially when rules changs	20:20
cehteh	kFurious4: i just ignore rules :P	20:21
n00bmonk3y	Hmmm question on bugrtracking....	20:21
n00bmonk3y	My bugtracker is set as - p.xsbc_bugtracker="http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45453"	20:21
kFurious4	and without any warning	20:21
n00bmonk3y	yest the link is pointing at - xsbc-bugtracker:%20http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45453	20:21
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kFurious4	i m just tired	20:22
cehteh	quote from the GPL: "This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,"	20:22
n00bmonk3y	any ideas peeps?	20:22
kFurious4	and feeling that the "community" is now clearly dislocked	20:22
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cehteh	.. when i write free software then i think it is useful, if others disagree its not my problem	20:22
kFurious4	cehteh: currently i ll just stop any developpment	20:23
kFurious4	just doing things for me without publishing it	20:23
GeneralAntilles	n00bmonk3y, sure you don't just want a Bugzilla product?	20:23
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n00bmonk3y	Hmmm, to be honest i'm not that thrilled with it, hard enough to learn linux, QT, Python and everything else.... Searched for over an hour on "How to create a bug Tracker" and there isn't one simple guide.... so read the QA process and it said nothing against using a forum post :) - of which i prefer - less logins, and less confusion for me :P	20:25
Khertan	~ping	20:25
infobot	~pong	20:25
cehteh	kFurious4: well thats bad too .. no way to publish and annonce it at least.. but dont care about the rest?	20:25
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cehteh	put it on some server out there, announce it on tmo .. done	20:25
GeneralAntilles	n00bmonk3y, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products	20:25
Khertan	i ve already stop to read tmo	20:25
Khertan	since the announce of the n900	20:26
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cehteh	stopping reading it doesnt prevent you from posting there :P	20:26
n00bmonk3y	would help if that was linked on the autobuilder - or actually anywhere lol :P	20:26
n00bmonk3y	thanks though	20:26
n00bmonk3y	lol! - i have to send an email to do it....	20:26
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Khertan	to create a product in bmo send an email	20:27
n00bmonk3y	thats just an extra annoyancy lol	20:27
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Khertan	to create a new version im the product list send an email	20:27
Khertan	this isn t serious !	20:27
n00bmonk3y	i'm sure i'm annoying testers, but... aghhhh thats not a well thought out, easy/user friendly process :(	20:27
* cehteh didnt looked into the intended publishing process		20:27
n00bmonk3y	meh, gonna try n fix the forum link i think	20:27
n00bmonk3y	but i'm not gonna be able to stop it pointing at the wrong place am i ? :(	20:28
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Khertan	and of course i think that with meego it ll be worse and more complicated	20:29
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cehteh	dunno maybe its even easier	20:29
n00bmonk3y	ooo intruiging... not using a debian control file - using autobuilder	20:29
Khertan	cehteh: with rpm !	20:29
n00bmonk3y	so this line - p.xsbc_bugtracker="http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45453" should work - and it isn't :(	20:29
Khertan	really !	20:29
GeneralAntilles	n00bmonk3y, it's not difficult.	20:30
cehteh	Khertan: i dont care .. I release software as source and hope for someone packaging it :)	20:30
Khertan	p.xsbc_bugtracker ? are you using pypackager ?	20:30
n00bmonk3y	it is :(	20:30
GeneralAntilles	n00bmonk3y, an email will take you all of 5 minutes	20:30
n00bmonk3y	erm using build_***.py method	20:30
GeneralAntilles	and your users will thank you.	20:30
n00bmonk3y	not really, the testers will	20:30
Khertan	GeneralAntilles: are you doing packaging yourself ?	20:30
n00bmonk3y	but thats their prefferred method	20:30
n00bmonk3y	having extra logins etc	20:30
pupnik_	can i play sound clips to people over phone?	20:30
GeneralAntilles	Khertan, why is that relevant? I'm talking about adding a product to bugzilla.	20:30
n00bmonk3y	i find myself in an odd position of not wanting to use all the developer tools... (Not really a developer tbh.....) and much prefer the talk.maemo awy of keep up to date, but its just a personal preference	20:31
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n00bmonk3y	if it was all simple, with one log in, and done in english, might change my mind... Just way to complicated for Joe-Bloggs the newbie....	20:32
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* GeneralAntilles shrugs.		20:32
n00bmonk3y	:)	20:32
n00bmonk3y	hehe	20:32
GeneralAntilles	Development isn't really a simple thing.	20:32
n00bmonk3y	well, the coding bit was easy then the publishing bit ;)	20:32
GeneralAntilles	If you have questions, ask.	20:32
n00bmonk3y	easier*	20:33
GeneralAntilles	People have different skill sets.	20:33
n00bmonk3y	but then i am doing a simple tool i suppose ;)	20:33
n00bmonk3y	i'm good at eating if that helps? lol ;)	20:33
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n00bmonk3y	wb khert	20:33
khertan2	19:32] <GeneralAntilles> Khertan, why is that relevant? I'm talking about adding a product to bugzilla.n[19:33] <Khertan> because each time you made new version / package you need to add a new product version in the bugtracker ... so send a email and wait !n[19:34] <Khertan> wait ... wait ... wait ...	20:34
n00bmonk3y	:( if it was automated it would make life alot easier :)	20:34
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n00bmonk3y	autobuilder - add product.... Retruns, your new bug tracker is... xxx	20:35
khertan2	this is far from the spirit .... release as often possible ... fix it as often possible	20:35
GeneralAntilles	khertan2, or ping me here.	20:35
n00bmonk3y	returns*	20:35
GeneralAntilles	khertan2, unfortunately this is the reality with our old bugzilla install	20:35
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GeneralAntilles	Karsten should have 3.4 up by the end of the month, however.	20:35
n00bmonk3y	which is probably why i'm prefering talk.maemo.org	20:35
n00bmonk3y	which hasn't been discounted by the QA process	20:35
n00bmonk3y	it just wont let me put the link in without adding xsbc-bugtracker: in front of it :(	20:36
khertan2	n00bmonk3y : not yet	20:36
n00bmonk3y	not yet to which bit? lol	20:36
khertan2	n00bmonkey are you using pypackager ?	20:36
khertan2	or py2deb ?	20:36
n00bmonk3y	but the 20 mins i spent talking on here i coulda sorted the problem out... instead i'm strill trying to figure it out lol :P	20:37
n00bmonk3y	erm, the auto builder one that uses build_***.py method lol	20:37
khertan2	ah ok sorry	20:37
n00bmonk3y	is that the packager?	20:37
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n00bmonk3y	sorry did it a few weeks ago, and just automate it now	20:37
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Shapeshifter	n00bmonk3y: py2deb that is.	20:37
n00bmonk3y	ahhh cheers Shapeshifter	20:37
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n00bmonk3y	that bit works well :D	20:38
* Shapeshifter used it today the first time		20:38
khertan2	because there was a bug in previous version of pypackager	20:38
n00bmonk3y	i just edit my code, change the build file and run it :)	20:38
khertan2	which is now fixed	20:38
n00bmonk3y	ooo maybe i need to update it? will go check	20:38
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khertan2	(and is of course available in extras-devel only)	20:38
n00bmonk3y	:D	20:38
n00bmonk3y	pretty sure mine is up to date	20:38
Shapeshifter	btw, any clues why some apps don't show their proper icon in the app menu right after installation? Some apps seem to, some other dont.	20:39
ali1234	users won't thank you for using b.m.o as bug tracker	20:39
ali1234	users will moan about how bugzilla sucks	20:39
khertan2	shapeshifter it s a bug :)	20:39
* SpeedEvil will.		20:39
Shapeshifter	most of the time, a reboot is required to show the icon	20:39
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khertan2	but wont fix	20:39
Shapeshifter	khertan2: >.>	20:39
cehteh	.. who thinks debians QA is insane didnt seen Maemo yet :>	20:39
khertan2	as the more menu will disapear in 1.2	20:39
n00bmonk3y	ali1234 - users, or testers?	20:39
khertan2	as the more menu will disapear in pr1.2	20:40
Shapeshifter	khertan2: ahh	20:40
GeneralAntilles	What a fun crowd tonight.	20:40
n00bmonk3y	:D	20:40
n00bmonk3y	we aim to please GeneralAntilles	20:40
ali1234	n00bmonk3y: users. i don't know what "testers" means	20:40
n00bmonk3y	latest pypackager installed	20:40
nid0	users wont care what you use as a bugtracker	20:40
ali1234	does "testers" mean the people who do QA?	20:40
khertan2	:)	20:40
n00bmonk3y	ali1234 - why will a user not like the tmo approach? - thats as far as most users get.... needing to register for bugzilla is a chore and annoying, and not user friendly	20:41
nid0	because theyll just post "xxx duznt wurk" on tmo in some irrelevant forum regardless of what bugtracker is used	20:41
n00bmonk3y	yes ali1234	20:41
ali1234	n00bmonk3y: because bugzilla is extremely difficult to use for users	20:41
n00bmonk3y	fine by me, i can tidy them up and list them :)	20:41
Shapeshifter	GeneralAntilles: why?	20:41
ali1234	n00bmonk3y: most users would rather post bugs on a forum thread than try to deal with it	20:41
n00bmonk3y	yup ali1234 my point :) - tmo is easier for people to post - granted the posts dont look pretty	20:41
GeneralAntilles	Shapeshifter, lots of complaining.	20:41
n00bmonk3y	but i prefer it there too :)	20:41
Shapeshifter	mh	20:41
khertan2	GeneralAntilles : thx to haven t use the word whine	20:42
cehteh	ali1234: which is ok ... i prefer users send me bug reports in simple words (but more than "does not work") instead spamming a bug tracker with noise	20:42
ali1234	cehteh: everyone prefers that	20:42
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khertan2	specially with that new qa rules	20:42
n00bmonk3y	:D	20:42
cehteh	sometimes i have doubts about that	20:43
khertan2	which make search in bmo more complicated	20:43
SpeedEvil	bugtracker on 4chan. Everyone wins.	20:43
cehteh	SpeedEvil: haha	20:43
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khertan2	yep 4chan should be added in the wiki as a validate bug tracker link	20:44
mikkov	javispedro: around?	20:46
n00bmonk3y	how abouts to ease the annoyancey now, when autobuilder goes through it auto-emails for the new bugzilla link? :D - allthough a bit late then i suppose lol	20:46
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ali1234	i seem to recall a thread on t.m.o where it was stated that "we use bugzilla because it is easy for developers"	20:48
khertan2	good evening everyone .. and bye	20:48
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GeneralAntilles	We use bugzilla because it's robust, scalable, does what we need it to do and lots of people know how to use it.	20:48
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n00bmonk3y	lol ali1234 - but i'm more of a user then a techy/developer - would much rather things spelt out, in simple order...	20:49
Shapeshifter	whats wrong with bugzilla?	20:49
mece	mikkov, in maemo5 sdk, is the SDL_mixer in i386 not working? I recall you writing something about it somewhere	20:49
GeneralAntilles	Shapeshifter, it's bugzilla.	20:49
n00bmonk3y	It really is hard enough to learn to code for #maemo without a list of 20 things to do before you can publish	20:49
phreck_	qt.	20:50
phreck_	go.	20:50
n00bmonk3y	?	20:50
Shapeshifter	GeneralAntilles: huh...	20:50
ali1234	Shapeshifter: it is extremely hard to use and doesn't integrate well into the rest of maemo.org, especially the QA process	20:50
* Shapeshifter likes flyspray for that matter		20:50
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GeneralAntilles	Shapeshifter, people hate bugzilla because it's bugzilla.	20:50
Shapeshifter	ali1234: hard to use?...	20:50
mece	I like bugzilla	20:50
ali1234	Shapeshifter: yes, hard to use. if i find a bug and try to see if it has already been reported, well, it is almost impossible	20:51
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mece	ali1234, ok, I agree with that one. I'm absolutely clueless as to how I'm supposed see if an issue has been reported.	20:51
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GeneralAntilles	https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?format=advanced	20:52
n00bmonk3y	lol	20:52
GeneralAntilles	The quicksearch defaults are idiotic and need changing.	20:52
n00bmonk3y	General - you know what you are doing - what about someone who joined a few weeks ago and wants to help out testing?	20:52
n00bmonk3y	Its not really friendly is it?	20:52
GeneralAntilles	n00bmonk3y, lots of people are around to help	20:53
GeneralAntilles	We all had to start there.	20:53
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GeneralAntilles	It's also my intention to make the process easier	20:53
n00bmonk3y	true, but wouldnt life be easier if the help wasnt needed? and things just worked?	20:53
GeneralAntilles	Part of this comes with the 3.4 upgrade, the rest with some additional work.	20:53
n00bmonk3y	had to remember how to use mirc to get quick help as threads can take a few days...	20:54
GeneralAntilles	n00bmonk3y, yes, utopia is always easier. :)	20:54
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n00bmonk3y	GeneralAntilles - i think you are missing the point... if we can make it easier to help, thats a good thing?	20:54
GeneralAntilles	But reality is rarely the same thing.	20:54
GeneralAntilles	n00bmonk3y, sure, and that's what I'm trying to do	20:54
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GeneralAntilles	it doesn't happen overnight, however. :)	20:54
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n00bmonk3y	well i asked a question 40 minutes ago and got no help lol.. just told to use bugtracker which according to the QA process i do not currently have to do......	20:55
n00bmonk3y	allthough i agree, i know you are trying to help :)	20:55
* GeneralAntilles can see this isn't going anywhere productive.		20:55
* GeneralAntilles will eat lunch instead.		20:55
n00bmonk3y	i'm just a bit pedantic because i'm annoyed :P	20:55
mece	n00bmonk3y, what was the question?	20:55
n00bmonk3y	Lol ty mece :D	20:55
n00bmonk3y	in my build.py file i have the line p.xsbc_bugtracker="http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45453"	20:56
* mece have been building lego castles for the last 2 hours, so he hasn't really checked tmo.		20:56
n00bmonk3y	yet the bugtracker link is showing as - xsbc-bugtracker:%20http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45453	20:56
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n00bmonk3y	not sure where the beginning bugtracker bit is coming from?	20:56
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n00bmonk3y	but gen is annoyed because i dont want to use bugzilla, because i find it counter productive and prefer to use tmo lol	20:57
mece	%20 means space..	20:58
mece	so what is the issue?	20:59
n00bmonk3y	lol yup, got that bit ;)	20:59
n00bmonk3y	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/healthcheck/0.5.2-4/	20:59
n00bmonk3y	look at the bugtracker link on there	20:59
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n00bmonk3y	i cant find out why the link has the beginning bit, when i am only setting it to = the tmo thread link	20:59
mece	ahaa IC	20:59
n00bmonk3y	:D	20:59
n00bmonk3y	the app is being voted down - ok... i probably should get a bugzilla account - but i do not like bugzilla... so.... i'm sticking to something i know :D	21:00
mece	what does the build script look like then?	21:00
mece	pastebin?	21:00
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n00bmonk3y	http://pastebin.com/DngiEuzd (Never used pastebin b4, did it work?)	21:01
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* Aranel needs help for two buttons - Photoshop. (Maemo related)		21:02
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mece	seems to be a py2deb bug (are you using py2deb?)	21:03
mece	I have the same issue with mine..	21:03
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n00bmonk3y	ahhhhh (lol no idea, possibly- i used a method that was easy and worked) one of the two lol	21:04
n00bmonk3y	creates 3 files when run	21:04
n00bmonk3y	i upload them to autobuilder	21:04
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mece	yep. same one. Apparently there's a bug.	21:04
mece	lemme check.	21:04
n00bmonk3y	hmmm so my app could be rejected due to a bug with the uploading lol :P yayness	21:05
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mece	yep. just edit debian/control	21:05
n00bmonk3y	ahhhh, got no files at all in debain folder	21:05
n00bmonk3y	:\|	21:05
n00bmonk3y	debian*	21:05
mece	you see the problem right away.	21:05
mece	oh right..	21:05
n00bmonk3y	:D hehe	21:05
mece	you need to unpack the tar	21:06
n00bmonk3y	so new to coding hadnt had the need to learn that yet	21:06
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mece	too bad khertan left already	21:06
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mece	LOL	21:06
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n00bmonk3y	lol	21:06
mece	that was convenient...	21:06
n00bmonk3y	every time i build it i'ma gonna need to unpack it to edit a file and repack? :(	21:06
ali1234	mece: khertan had a different problem	21:07
mece	oh?	21:07
n00bmonk3y	pity because i like just doing it on the device, and that just gets complicated :(	21:07
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mece	khertan made py2deb	21:07
n00bmonk3y	:)	21:07
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* n00bmonk3y thinks khertan is clever lol		21:07
khertan	Hi again ...	21:07
mece	khertan!	21:07
n00bmonk3y	Yay!	21:07
mece	right..	21:07
n00bmonk3y	khertan did i mention i love you?	21:07
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* khertan finally found some time to back again		21:07
ali1234	mece: oic	21:07
mece	khertan, py2deb makes bugtracker url wrong.	21:07
khertan	n00bmonk3y: ? uhm ... nope didn't remember that	21:08
khertan	mece: ?	21:08
n00bmonk3y	hehehe	21:08
n00bmonk3y	= my build file - http://pastebin.com/DngiEuzd	21:08
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n00bmonk3y	check the bug link here - http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/healthcheck/0.5.2-3/	21:08
mece	khertan, in debian/control, you get this type of problem: XSBC-Bugtracker: XSBC-Bugtracker: http://bugs.maemo.org	21:08
n00bmonk3y	mece described it better and quicker :)	21:08
khertan	XSBC-Bugtracker should be converted by autobuilder	21:09
mece	oh.. hmm.	21:09
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mece	doesn't autobuilder use debian/control?	21:09
khertan	for source only	21:09
khertan	for binary upload with dput it doesn't of course	21:09
mece	khertan, ok, well where does it get the url to bugtracker then?	21:09
khertan	ok ...	21:10
fzfq3m	Hi.. has somebody used the pidgin extra protocols for conversations integration? More specifically with Facebook Account	21:10
khertan	i understand you use py2deb	21:10
mece	since that error in control appeared before autobuilder touched it.	21:10
khertan	not pypackager	21:10
khertan	:)	21:10
mece	yes	21:10
n00bmonk3y	i need to confirm this dont i lol	21:10
khertan	i ve merge recently py2deb and pypackager to pypackager	21:11
khertan	with changes for the new QA rules	21:11
mece	it says "import py2deb" so yea, you use py2deb also, n00bmonk3y	21:11
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khertan	let me 5 minutes to convert your script to pypackager	21:11
n00bmonk3y	yay ty mce	21:11
n00bmonk3y	mece*	21:11
mece	np.	21:11
n00bmonk3y	hmmm hold on	21:11
Shapeshifter	khertan: do you have a guide for such a conversion? I got a py2deb script as well, I guess I need to convert it soon as well.	21:11
n00bmonk3y	everytime i build it will be wrong tho?	21:11
mece	khertan, well a sample script would be sufficient for me-	21:12
khertan	Shapeshifter: not yet :)	21:12
* n00bmonk3y just checked - py2deb installed :)		21:12
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mece	I guess we'll be getting a sample script in n00bmonk3y script :)	21:13
mece	anyway I've gotta split. the wife is beating me with a stick.	21:13
fzfq3m	Facebook contacts are created just when the user(Friend) get connected to facebook while I connected too!!! is that normal??	21:13
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khertan	http://pastebin.com/BBLkyS5h <- the script i use for pygtkeditor	21:13
n00bmonk3y	thanks mece	21:13
n00bmonk3y	and lol	21:13
ali1234	fzfq3m: no, but it probably is dependent on how facebook and the pidgin plugin for it works	21:14
ali1234	fzfq3m: for most protocols you should get all contacts when you connect, but maybe facebook just doesn't allow that	21:14
mece	oh.. I have a few minutes still heh.	21:14
n00bmonk3y	assume i just need to run it?	21:15
ali1234	fzfq3m: in particular, pidgin/MSN does not have this problem. i didn't try any others	21:15
fzfq3m	ali1234: It works that way for me... I though I did something wrong and then I reflashed my N900 (Firmware and eMMC) but still the same	21:15
fzfq3m	ali123: yeah.. I also use it with MSN and it works OK... all msn contacts are created at once!!!	21:16
Shapeshifter	I thought facebook went XMPP now.	21:16
user478964415	n00bmonk3y: http://pastebin.com/fBhAmKAk	21:17
mece	yeah facebook is xmpp	21:17
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mece	that's the correct way to do it.	21:17
user478964415	n00bmonk3y: should be ok after an apt-get install pypackager :)	21:17
mece	afaik	21:17
mece	hehe nice nick khertan :)	21:17
user478964415	yep	21:18
user478964415	this is the bot	21:18
user478964415	:)	21:18
Shapeshifter	fzfq3m: http://www.facebook.com/sitetour/chat.php just follow this to make yourself an XMPP facebook address and then add it as a jabber service.	21:18
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khertan	:)	21:18
khertan	so converting script is easy	21:19
khertan	just take care of some changes in name :)	21:19
fzfq3m	Shapeshifter: yeah... I also tried using jabber account against chat.facebook.com... But I like the way that facebook plugin adds the contact... it just use user id.. something like 549464965	21:19
khertan	and now you can with the same script generate source package or binary package	21:19
fzfq3m	Shapeshifter: Anyway I will revert back to jabber	21:19
Shapeshifter	fzfq3m: the old facebook chat is an abominations	21:20
khertan	but i didn't think that my packaging tools was usefull to other ... i was thinking i'm the only one to use it	21:20
fzfq3m	Shapeshifter: Why is that??	21:20
mece	khertan, it's the only way I could get anything done.	21:20
khertan	Shapeshifter: facebook is an abominations	21:20
mece	sure it is.	21:20
khertan	mece: oh ? really ? you are an other onboard developpers like me ?	21:21
khertan	using a netbook in the metro is cleary not possible :)	21:21
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khertan	every apps i do for maemo was writted in the train or in the metro	21:21
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khertan	s/do/write	21:22
Shapeshifter	fzfq3m: total crap protocol and implementation. just forget it ever happened.	21:22
mece	khertan, I write mine on the crapper	21:22
khertan	:)	21:22
n00bmonk3y	lol	21:23
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khertan	n00bmonk3y: does the script works ?	21:23
khertan	there is also : p.display_name as you can see in pypackager	21:23
n00bmonk3y	not tried yet, just had a shower - gotta go out in 10 - trying to run it now :)	21:24
fzfq3m	Shapeshifter: lol .... Then I will use jabber instead	21:24
fzfq3m	Shapeshifter: Thanks	21:24
khertan	maybe one day i should learn wiki syntax to edit wiki.maemo.org/Py2deb	21:24
* khertan hate wiki		21:24
mece	khertan, paste it there raw, and I'll make it look nicer.	21:24
mece	but not right now. gotta go. for reals now. tata.	21:25
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n00bmonk3y	do i just run it on my device?	21:25
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mikkov	mece: what's the problem with SDL_mixer?	21:28
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dang_	hello	21:30
dang_	can someone tell me what the path is to save wallpapers in?	21:30
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n00bmonk3y	mikkov - mece left :(	21:30
caratorn	dang_: I think it's MyDocs/.images/	21:31
n00bmonk3y	no idea, sorry dang :P	21:31
dang_	caratorn: thanks a lot!	21:31
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khertan	bye everyone	21:47
khertan	n00bmonk3y: if you have any question just send me a mail at khertan@khertan.net	21:47
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corecode	zsh: segmentation fault ./modest -s	21:55
corecode	gah.	21:56
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khertan	Someone have already try android here ? did you can do onboard development with a such OS ?	22:01
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corecode	did you can do?	22:05
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Kirk	listen	22:06
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Stskeeps	ENOWAY	22:07
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khertan	corecode: i mean can you write code on the device ... and run it directly	22:09
corecode	wrong channel i suppose	22:09
khertan	corecode: without needs of a desktop computer to code, build, package	22:09
khertan	corecode: yep ... and not :)	22:09
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khertan	just to know if some maemo user have already use / see a android os	22:09
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khertan	for my part ... i never	22:10
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* Stskeeps ponders idly to go on a shopping spree and buying all calvin and hobbes comic books		22:11
GeneralAntilles	Didn't they release a collection a few years ago?	22:11
Stskeeps	yeah, just saw it	22:11
GeneralAntilles	http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Calvin-Hobbes-v/dp/0740748475	22:11
GeneralAntilles	Friend of mine has the Far Side collection	22:12
GeneralAntilles	It's a decent set.	22:12
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pupnik_	stupid philosophers though	22:12
Stskeeps	then again, it would be a bit cliche to start collecting comic books at this age	22:12
* GeneralAntilles shrugs.		22:13
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GeneralAntilles	Calvin and Hobbes aint exactly Spiderman.	22:13
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corecode	great. modest segfaults on my desktop	22:15
corecode	how's that supposed to work on my n900 then	22:16
khertan	does you desktop is an arm cpu ?	22:16
corecode	no	22:16
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khertan	maybe you got your answer :)	22:17
corecode	why	22:17
satmd	well, he assumes you have taken the plain binary and try to run it on the desktop	22:17
corecode	...	22:17
corecode	that would be plain stupid	22:17
corecode	i compiled it from git	22:17
* satmd thought of X forwarding and qemu		22:18
satmd	;D	22:18
khertan	i didn't remember if modest is available in the sdk ... but try to run it on scratchbox before, i ll not be surprise if there is some glitches on x86	22:18
corecode	i didn't have time to look into scratchbox use	22:18
khertan	:)	22:19
khertan	same :	22:19
khertan	:)	22:19
corecode	i installed it	22:19
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corecode	but that's all	22:19
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khertan	i didn't finish the install ... too much error due to my 64bits install	22:20
khertan	oh god you cannot made onboard dev on Android OS	22:21
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corecode	strange, i have 64bit as well here	22:21
corecode	and it worked without problems	22:21
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* Shapeshifter is not very happy with libalarm		22:23
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khertan	corecode: yep but it s maybe due to old ubuntu install ... upgraded ... upgraded ... upgraded ... with custom things on it	22:26
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corecode	ok	22:26
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toggles_w	Shapeshifter: not very intuitive is it	22:26
Shapeshifter	toggles_w: not very	22:26
Shapeshifter	toggles_w: also, the doc is obscure and error reporting isn't that good	22:26
toggles_w	Shapeshifter: yeah, i gave up and used bash ;-)	22:27
Shapeshifter	^^	22:27
Shapeshifter	toggles_w: I'm writing a frontend	22:27
toggles_w	Shapeshifter: yeah, i started that too, figured for all i wanted to do a crappy cron script in bash was faster to implement and easier to maintain, plus cross platform...	22:28
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GeneralAntilles	Hopefully to be replaced in MeeGo	22:28
Shapeshifter	toggles_w: I just want automatic gprs-data resetting. I got that now	22:29
Shapeshifter	GeneralAntilles: D:	22:29
toggles_w	GeneralAntilles: another reason not to bother	22:29
Shapeshifter	then all my work was for nothing	22:29
toggles_w	lol	22:29
GeneralAntilles	Probably still in Harmattan	22:29
mmarc__	guys, could we put a firewall onto n900? I've got gprs traffic leak with messangers turned off and no usage.	22:29
Shapeshifter	GeneralAntilles: they _could_ just use cron imo >.>	22:29
SpeedEvil	mmarc__: gprs leak doing what	22:29
SpeedEvil	mmarc__: inbound or out?	22:29
SpeedEvil	mmarc__: tcpdump!	22:30
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GeneralAntilles	Shapeshifter, there were a variety of reasons why that wasn't workable back in the day.	22:30
Shapeshifter	GeneralAntilles: back in the day? is it old?	22:30
mmarc__	data counter counted 1.5 megabytes of gprs traffic on idle state, without any usage. I can't stand with this, it's not cheap in my area.	22:30
GeneralAntilles	Shapeshifter, i.e., 770/N800 timeframe.	22:30
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Shapeshifter	GeneralAntilles: mhhh	22:31
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SpeedEvil	mmarc__: is it possibly the autoupdate?	22:31
mmarc__	1.5 megs just in two last hours	22:31
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SpeedEvil	mmarc__: I'd first tcpdump it - and see what it is.	22:31
GeneralAntilles	mmarc__, N900 is a data-intensive device.	22:31
SpeedEvil	data intensive device doesn't mean it should do shit without permission.	22:32
SpeedEvil	IMO	22:32
mmarc__	I'd like all this autocrap to turn on with wifi available only. Thanks, I will try tcpdump	22:32
SpeedEvil	autoupdate or other things ever kicking in over gprs (and not configurable not to) is a bug.	22:33
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mmarc__	I never have such gprs bills before, as for last few days, if nokia thinks we have gprs for free, it will get its phone back with refund request.	22:35
Shapeshifter	Mhh, this is such a pain. This just raises InvalidEventException, which appens when alarmd_event_add(event.obj) returns 0 as the cookie. No reason given why it wont get added	22:35
Shapeshifter	mh. trial and error showed... some random behaviour. now it worked	22:36
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* Shapeshifter goes back pondering		22:36
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Shapeshifter	Mhh. alarmd is just weird. I have this event which is supposed to just ring an alarm once an hour. So I have action_stop.flags \|= (alarm.ACTION_WHEN_RESPONDED \| alarm.ACTION_TYPE_NOP) and a stop and a snooze button. Now, the first time, it waits until the correct time to ring the alarm the first time. But then, if I hit "Stop", it will ring again every minute. Doesn't matter if I do or do not set recurrence.mask_min \|= ...	22:56
Shapeshifter	... alarm.RECUR_MIN_DONTCARE. I don't even get what this "DONTCARE" is about its so badly documented.	22:56
Shapeshifter	and if I set alarm.ACTION_TYPE_DISABLE instead of NOP, it will be definetely disabled.	22:56
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ShadowJK	I expect I will just set gprs to "always ask" when I go travel	22:57
SpeedEvil	always ask is a bit broken though.	22:57
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ShadowJK	how come?	22:57
SpeedEvil	If I open up the web browser to look at a small text page - I don't want something else getting in and deciding it'd like to download a meg.	22:58
ShadowJK	ah	22:58
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SpeedEvil	Getting it right is hard though.	22:58
SpeedEvil	you'd want soemthing like quotas.	22:58
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ShadowJK	maybe i'll just get a prepaid card with data :)	22:59
ShadowJK	instead of using roaming data	22:59
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SpeedEvil	Generally a good plan.	22:59
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jacekowski	ShadowJK: i did that in US	23:02
jacekowski	ShadowJK: and i've used $100 in 20 minutes	23:02
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GeneralAntilles	There's no such thing as pre-paid data in the US.	23:04
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ShadowJK	I heard there was one	23:04
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burchr	GeneralAntilles: waves hand - this is not the paid data you are looking for? :)	23:06
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jacekowski	GeneralAntilles: there is	23:06
jacekowski	GeneralAntilles: i had sim from at&t	23:06
GeneralAntilles	jacekowski, from whom?	23:06
jacekowski	it took me a lot of walking from one place to antoher	23:07
jacekowski	another*	23:07
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Shapeshifter	prepaid data is like 20 usd for 1GB for one month in germany ;)	23:09
ShadowJK	"Alditalk's monthly flatrate for € 14.99/30 days (eplus network, no HSPA, partial EDGE-coverage, frequent network congestions) "	23:09
ShadowJK	http://prepaid-wireless-internet-access.wetpaint.com/page/Germany ?	23:09
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Shapeshifter	yeah stuff like that	23:10
Shapeshifter	it's not _that_ bad.	23:10
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pupnik_	now that n900 nolonger forwards all my incoming calls to a random stranger, i am happy with tschibo/o2 germany	23:17
pupnik_	probably pebkac too	23:17
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toggles_w	i hate pebkac	23:21
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johnsq	Hi	23:22
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Arif_	so	23:25
Arif_	hi	23:25
Arif_	:P	23:25
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burchr	hi!	23:29
johnsq	Arif_: what keyboard hi -> so?	23:29
Arif_	Not any that I used	23:30
Arif_	:D	23:30
rzr	hi are there broken n900 owners around ? http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB	23:31
rzr	i was wondering if replacement ones are more reliable, because i plan to get one soon	23:32
Arif_	hmm	23:32
Arif_	I keep mine falling around but it still works :D	23:33
zaheerm	people at nokia have said it's a warranty issue and that they should contact nokia care for a replacement	23:33
rzr	yes they said	23:34
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rzr	but is the replacement better ?	23:34
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zaheerm	no clue but the replacement would also be under warranty	23:34
Arif_	will it charge the phone faster :D	23:34
johnsq	the warrenty starts new on this part	23:34
rzr	or redesigned ?	23:34
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opdf2	is this chan for general n900 talk as well?	23:38
Hoxzer	yes	23:38
Arif_	as well?	23:38
Arif_	what else is it for?	23:39
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Hoxzer	Arif_: probably n770-N810 too	23:40
Arif_	aw	23:40
Arif_	only 4 people have one of those anyway	23:40
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joker_89	Hello,anyone uses python?	23:44
Khertan_	http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Bugtracker what to add to a such discussion : http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Bugtracker bye see you on an other plateform ?	23:44
* Arif_ invites Khertan_ to android		23:46
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dregin	Khertan_: you're looking at the aemo bug tracker	23:47
Khertan_	Arif i m already on #android	23:47
joker_89	anyone programming with python?	23:48
lcuk	joker_89, ask your question	23:48
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joker_89	i have problems with the pys60, with import urllib.openurl	23:48
joker_89	says AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'urlopen'	23:48
lcuk	yes im sure some are	23:49
lcuk	excuse me s60?	23:49
joker_89	yeah	23:49
joker_89	can i put maemo on a n85?	23:51
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lcuk	i dunno, i dont have one	23:51
Khertan_	http://maemo.org/packages/view/vectormine/ <-- dput the package 1.0.6 this morning ... 12h later still not in extras devel ...	23:51
joker_89	lcuk you have maemo?	23:51
lcuk	a bit yeah	23:52
joker_89	waht mobile?	23:52
Khertan_	im tired all this fucking process sucks ! i m tired ...	23:52
Khertan_	bye	23:52
lcuk	joker_89, n900	23:52
lcuk	khertan, thats not good	23:52
joker_89	n900 to expensive	23:52
* Arif_ blinks		23:53
zaheerm	joker_89, maybe there is a channel #symbian you can go to to ask the python s60 question	23:53
Khertan_	no more try to push in extras	23:53
Khertan_	bye maemo .. and no nogo !	23:53
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dregin	nice	23:53
dregin	:P	23:53
Arif_	aww	23:53
joker_89	this channel is dead	23:53
Arif_	he couldn't wait for Moogo	23:53
zaheerm	joker_89, which channel is dead?	23:54
dregin	you came in asking ridiculous questions and pronounce the channel dead?	23:54
dregin	gg	23:54
joker_89	symbian	23:54
zaheerm	joker_89, bear in mind we are not gods, we know very little about symbian programming	23:54
zaheerm	joker_89, maemo is more different to symbian than windows to mac os x	23:54
dregin	thank god :P	23:55
joker_89	but there ara few mobiles with maemo	23:55
joker_89	why this hcannel is full?	23:55
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Shapeshifter	lol	23:55
Shapeshifter	he's a joker.	23:55
dregin	why not?	23:55
zaheerm	joker_89, there is one mobile phone with maemo 5, that is Nokia N900	23:55
joker_89	and its to expensive	23:55
zaheerm	joker_89, there are 4 other devices running maemo made by nokia	23:55
Arif_	wait 4?	23:56
Arif_	whats the 4th?	23:56
zaheerm	770, n800, n810, n810 we	23:56
dregin	Nokia 3210 has it I HEARD	23:56
dregin	:P	23:56
Arif_	with snake!	23:56
joker_89	mm	23:56
joker_89	and anyone have symbian?	23:56
* lbt thinks about all the devices Mer went onto... that's essentially maemo		23:56
zaheerm	joker_89, symbian phones are cheaper generally	23:57
Arif_	I have a gameboy 95 8Bit edition	23:57
zaheerm	joker_89, the people who program symbian are probably sleeping now, go back tomorrow morning	23:57
dregin	why are you in a maemo channel demanding information on a completely different operating system?	23:57
zaheerm	joker_89, go back to #symbian that is	23:57
joker_89	always ara sleeping	23:57
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joker_89	what time is it?	23:57
dregin	....	23:58
zaheerm	joker_89, look at the clock	23:58
opdf2	i understand that nothing has been official sed on maemo 6, meego on n900, but is the outlook on n900 software support healthy?	23:58
joker_89	22:58	23:58
lcuk	joker_89, perhaps you are expecting too much and not asking the right questions, getting responses out of people in irc is like fishing. you have to have the correct sort of bait	23:58
Shapeshifter	lcuk: wow you're a friendly fellow ;)	23:58
zaheerm	joker_89, also you can propbably use google to find an answer to your question, i hear they do a good search facility for the web	23:59
opdf2	its the only 1700 wcdma device with qwerty keyboard what is not Tmobile branded, so I'm looking to get one	23:59
lcuk	Shapeshifter :)	23:59
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joker_89	i search and i dont get information	23:59
joker_89	and dont work on emulator	23:59
zaheerm	joker_89, well i can help a little	23:59
zaheerm	joker_89, do: import urllib	23:59
joker_89	i do this	23:59
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