| ShadowJK | jacekowski, I think 1 will needed for OS, 1 for mass storage of user files, leaving none free for memory card | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| pupnik_ | cehteh: ability to do rollbacks seems very useful | 00:00 |
| Stskeeps | trbs2: i'm setting up open sourcing queue tomorrow, feel free to start pumping. | 00:00 |
| ShadowJK | If nokia wants to have / on big drive | 00:00 |
| ShadowJK | in the future | 00:00 |
| cehteh | if you look at nix, deb will look like old dust too :P | 00:00 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: that can be shared | 00:00 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: OS and storage on same memory | 00:00 |
| cehteh | pupnik: but as i saied i dont know how well it works on small devices | 00:00 |
| ShadowJK | jacekowski, hell no | 00:00 |
| cehteh | there is some bloat involved | 00:00 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: partitioned | 00:00 |
| trbs2 | Stskeeps, how exactly do you mean ? putting a list together of things we would like to be opensourced ? | 00:01 |
| ShadowJK | jacekowski, that's fucking slow, just try have gpodder download something on your N900 and you'll discover | 00:01 |
| pupnik_ | cehteh: do you find that installing packages with HAM is too slow? I despise spending 7 minutes with an unusable device because 3 packages got updated | 00:01 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: what's slow? | 00:01 |
| Stskeeps | trbs2: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44127 | 00:01 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: it's just memory that's slow | 00:01 |
| wolf^ | pupnik_, it's slow | 00:01 |
| trbs2 | Stskeeps, *click* :) | 00:01 |
| cehteh | pupnik: yeah could be better | 00:01 |
| ShadowJK | jacekowski, dude it's MMC, it can't be made not slow... | 00:02 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: if you would use really fast memory for system+storage and parition it | 00:02 |
| ShadowJK | Atleast not while keeping vfat | 00:02 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: it can | 00:02 |
| ShadowJK | Well nobody makes it in non-slow versions today | 00:02 |
| cehteh | but ending up with 5 variants of the libc in ram just because one didnt carefuly setup the nix stuff would be devasting for a 256MB device | 00:02 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: interface can handle 20MB/s | 00:02 |
| pupnik_ | does RPM have to rescan the whole DB with every update like apt-worker does? | 00:03 |
| jacekowski | pupnik_: there is no database | 00:03 |
| ShadowJK | But the underlying storage still does a 256-kilobyte read-modify-write cycle for the 4K writes that the OS sends it | 00:03 |
| jacekowski | pupnik_: there is no dependencies as such | 00:03 |
| jacekowski | pupnik_: i mean no dependencies solving | 00:04 |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, wow! just like dpkg! | 00:04 |
| pupnik_ | oh you just hope things work together jacekowski ? | 00:04 |
| ShadowJK | rpm is like dpkg, rpm is not like apt | 00:04 |
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| ShadowJK | dpkg has no dependencies resolving | 00:04 |
| pupnik_ | ok, i forgot all redhat stuff | 00:04 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: i was planing to leave him with feeling that .deb is superior | 00:04 |
| wolf^ | pupnik_, you can't install rpm if dependencies are not met (you can install deb with unmet dependencies) | 00:05 |
| range | No, but apt is like apt and why shouldn't you be able to use that on rpm? | 00:05 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: you can't | 00:05 |
| wolf^ | pupnik_, you have tools, like apt-get, to get the deps for you | 00:05 |
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| range | jacekowski: You can. | 00:05 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: unless you use --force-* | 00:05 |
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| jacekowski | wolf^: and same with rpm | 00:05 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: you can use force to install it | 00:05 |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, deb will install just fine, but won't "configure" | 00:06 |
| range | No need to force it. You can install it, but then it cannot be configured. | 00:06 |
| jacekowski | no it wont' | 00:06 |
| pupnik_ | i hope some gurus are consulted for this stuff and not middle-managers | 00:06 |
| pupnik_ | meddle-managers :) | 00:06 |
| guardian | merely-managers | 00:06 |
| guardian | :p | 00:06 |
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| cehteh | pupnik: hah .. prolly the middle manager are not even asked, markeing decided | 00:07 |
| wolf^ | pupnik_, if maemo would use rpm and the spec files (debian/* equivalent) would be done the right way, there would be no /opt problem | 00:08 |
| trbs2 | Stskeeps, subscribed to the thread, will help when/where ever i can | 00:08 |
| Stskeeps | trbs2: thanks | 00:08 |
| range | jacekowski: Yes, it will: http://pastebin.centos.org/31535 | 00:08 |
| pupnik_ | sounds good wolf^ | 00:08 |
| wolf^ | pupnik_, nokia would define in their sdk proper prefix for all packages and they would be installed to /opt without any modifications | 00:08 |
| cehteh | wolf^: the fucked up partitioning scheme is somethnig completely unrelated | 00:08 |
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| jacekowski | and spec files are fucked up | 00:08 |
| jacekowski | to be honest only good package manager i've seen is portage | 00:09 |
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| wolf^ | spec files are very simple to write, unlike debian/rules | 00:09 |
| woglinde | wolf lol | 00:09 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: you are joking? | 00:09 |
| wolf^ | lol indeed | 00:09 |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, no, of course not | 00:09 |
| shd | i agree, debian/rules is awful | 00:09 |
| wolf^ | debian/* is horror | 00:09 |
| cehteh | i install debian desktops and servers with 128MB rootfs since ages and have not the problems that the n900 has | 00:09 |
| * pupnik_ patiently awaits some FBSD bombs from 50,000 feet | 00:09 | |
| woglinde | wolf did you have seen rules files witrh cdbs or debhelper7? | 00:10 |
| cehteh | thats really something nokia failed spectactulary | 00:10 |
| shd | debian packaging is overengineered | 00:10 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, not really | 00:10 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, just the crap dh_make (?) generated for me | 00:10 |
| woglinde | wolf nope | 00:10 |
| wolf^ | cehteh, true | 00:10 |
| pupnik_ | it's easy enough to optify things with "ar" :) | 00:11 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, example spec file: http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/packages/cairo-clock/cairo-clock.spec?rev=1.10 | 00:11 |
| LiraNuna | is Maemo dead now? | 00:12 |
| LiraNuna | is it called MeeGo? | 00:12 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, %prep, %setup, %install, %clean are different build steps | 00:12 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, it's really simple | 00:12 |
| woglinde | wolf no quilt patches? | 00:13 |
| woglinde | please go away | 00:13 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, no what? | 00:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | LiraNuna, yup, | 00:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | well, within the next year or two, anyway. | 00:13 |
| LiraNuna | but Intel == x86 | 00:13 |
| pupnik_ | i would like quilt to go away :( | 00:13 |
| LiraNuna | they'll push Maemo out of ARM | 00:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | LiraNuna, no. | 00:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | LiraNuna, the FAQ says both x86 and ARM devices will be supported. | 00:13 |
| woglinde | pupnik you suffer the pain from diff -Naur? | 00:13 |
| LiraNuna | how did Intel agreed for both? | 00:14 |
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| cehteh | you see in this case intel is the little brother and nokia boss .. i suppose | 00:14 |
| spencer_ | need some help on gstreamer on n900 can anyone help:) | 00:14 |
| pupnik_ | woglinde: i guess it fills a need for multiple patches | 00:14 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, actually, the patches are completly orthohonal from dpkg/rpm | 00:14 |
| t-tan | wolf^: a rules file with debhelper7 looks like this: %: dh ${@} | 00:14 |
| t-tan | wolf^: that's it | 00:15 |
| sobczyk_ | the default app manager does not use apt-get? | 00:15 |
| woglinde | t-tan psst | 00:15 |
| Stskeeps | t-tan: random fact, debhelper5 is latest debhelper in maemo5 | 00:15 |
| woglinde | dont destroy wolf's world | 00:15 |
| woglinde | stskeeps we have cdbs | 00:15 |
| t-tan | Stskeeps: nope, we have the debhelper7 backport | 00:15 |
| woglinde | wolf do you have a example for package-split? | 00:16 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, moment | 00:16 |
| woglinde | lib dev dbg | 00:16 |
| spencer_ | need some help on gstreamer on n900 can anyone help :) can't get the nokiamp3dec sink to start :( | 00:16 |
| cehteh | ok .. unrelated, i am going to make the blinkenlight (notification led) plugin for xchat anyone want to help me and has knowledge about the 'proper' way to enable notification and cancel it in maemo? | 00:16 |
| wolf^ | t-tan, how does it look when some special steps needs to be done during for example install stage? | 00:16 |
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| cehteh | (xchat plugin rather than this script hack) | 00:17 |
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| woglinde | wolf you have overrides | 00:17 |
| woglinde | let me fish the blogpost from joey hess | 00:17 |
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| lardman | at least we can be happy that not everything in this world has changed, the Pandora still hasn't been released | 00:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 00:18 |
| * lardman looks through his archived bookmarks | 00:18 | |
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| wolf^ | woglinde, http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/packages/SDL/SDL.spec?rev=1.176 | 00:18 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, %package, %description name, %files name | 00:18 |
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| * ShadowJK nominates lardman for the quote of the day :) | 00:18 | |
| ShadowJK | lardman++ | 00:19 |
| pupnik_ | http://www.flickr.com/photos/hendry/3763078319/ ("Not your grandma's debhelper" - Joey Hess) | 00:19 |
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| t-tan | pupnik: :) | 00:20 |
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| pupnik_ | wasn't there a rumor about microsoft office for maemo5? | 00:26 |
| asj_ | pupnik_: pass me your crack pipe eh? | 00:27 |
| wolf^ | t-tan, it looks much better than that what's in nokia's sdk | 00:27 |
| wolf^ | t-tan, still, I'd prefer rpm | 00:27 |
| ShadowJK | pupnik, I think it's office reader for symbian | 00:28 |
| spencer_ | need some help on gstreamer on n900 can anyone help :) can't get the nokiamp3dec sink to start :( | 00:28 |
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| t-tan | wolf^: sure, it's a matter of taste and familiarity - another similar system are the Portfiles... | 00:28 |
| microlith | wait | 00:29 |
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| jacekowski | in media player | 00:29 |
| microlith | does that adflashblock-css actually prevent ads from being downloaded or does it do like Chrome and just hide them after the fact? | 00:29 |
| jacekowski | how do i go to playlist? | 00:29 |
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| patrikoak | Hello, I'm trying to fix a memory problem on my N900, the memory drops into read-only, dmseg says fat_get_cluster: invalid cluster chain. | 00:30 |
| lardman | spencer_: you didn't work for Sharp once upon a time did you? | 00:30 |
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| lardman | spencer_: and re the question, what error do you see? | 00:30 |
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| spencer_ | lardman, i think that's the different spencer :P... basically i got an internal negotiation error when i start playing in the nokiamp3dec pipeline... i'll run it again and see what exactly is the error again... | 00:32 |
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| lardman | spencer_: np :), pastebin the output | 00:35 |
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| Shapeshifter | uhm, how do I write a "1" in dosbox? | 00:37 |
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| Shapeshifter | or any other number? | 00:37 |
| wolf^ | Shapeshifter, google for rover.sys | 00:37 |
| Shapeshifter | wolf^: thanks | 00:38 |
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| KamuiN900 | does ovimaps not work for directions without data? | 00:38 |
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| * jacekowski = N900: Nightwish - Dark Chest of Wonders | 00:40 | |
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| Lumpio- | Gee, thanks for letting us know | 00:41 |
| pupnik_ | 1080p projectors is real nice to have | 00:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: I don't see the point in this "one SD-interface dedicated for /" idea | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | shit, scratch that | 00:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Oh, man, I need a pano background of this. http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=527928&postcount=269 | 00:43 |
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| t-tan | wolf^: for your qt* upgrade question: you can use --get/set-selections and the -O flag | 00:45 |
| woglinde | wolf | 00:45 |
| woglinde | ups | 00:45 |
| lardman | ah, the wonders of tabbed file browsing | 00:45 |
| lardman | KDE is not so bad | 00:45 |
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| BalSak1 | hi guys. I'm pretty new to maemo, so please excuse my ignorance | 00:46 |
| sobczyk_ | how to enable exdtras-devel with apt-get? | 00:46 |
| BalSak1 | where can I get an ISO or an image of maemo that I can use to load on my netbook (via SD card) | 00:46 |
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| BalSak1 | sobczyk_: possibly mod your /etc/apt/sources.list? | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | BalSak1, Maemo really only boots on Maemo devices. | 00:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | BalSak1, or devices with very similar hardware. | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | What, exactly, are you after? | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | A development environment? | 00:47 |
| BalSak1 | GeneralAntilles: are they not x86-based? | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or do you just want to run Maemo on your netbook? | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, Maemo 5 targets OMAP3. | 00:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Certain packages are compiled for x86 for use in the SDK. | 00:48 |
| BalSak1 | I want to test maemo. I run other distro's like moblin, android & jolicloud quite OK on it, & I'd really like to test maemo | 00:48 |
| BalSak1 | dang! | 00:48 |
| Lumpio- | The official SDK doesn't really use virtual machines or emulation or stuff | 00:48 |
| Lumpio- | But natively compiled packages. | 00:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | BalSak1, well, you have two options. | 00:49 |
| BalSak1 | so, what? can I use the SDK to build an image that I can dd to an SD card & lod it that way? | 00:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | The SDK, which is really only vaguely similar to the actually Maemo experience | 00:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or Mer which is more similar in some ways but more different in others. | 00:49 |
| sobczyk_ | BalSis extra-devel risky? | 00:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | The SDK will give you a testing environment that sort of looks mostly like Maemo. | 00:49 |
| sobczyk_ | is extra-devel risky? | 00:49 |
| BalSak1 | sobczyk_: noidea, sorry | 00:50 |
| pupnik_ | depends on your linux knowledge sobczyk_ | 00:50 |
| kynky | sobczyk_, if you have to ask, then the answer is yes | 00:50 |
| sobczyk_ | pupnik_, moderate, bbe on gentoo fo a while, but not a genius :) | 00:50 |
| BalSak1 | GeneralAntilles: thanks. I think I'll try Mer, since I'm not inclined to muck around with compiles & such | 00:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | BalSak1, well, the SDK doesn't inolve compiling if you want to test. | 00:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | BalSak1, but the goodnews is that Maemo and Moblin merged into MeeGo today which will run just fine on your netbook in about 6-12 months. ;) | 00:51 |
| pupnik_ | sobczyk_: if you can survive messing around with your desktop linux, you can survive -devel | 00:51 |
| pupnik_ | keep a close eye on your root partition, don't let it fill up | 00:52 |
| BalSak1 | GeneralAntilles: yea, I jsut saw that, which let me to reconsider maemo again. I'd really like to try it out for myself before it merges, & besides, the 1st release is still quite some way off, AFAIK | 00:52 |
| sobczyk_ | I'll try apt-pinning, I don't want everything unstable | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: but isn't guaranteed to run on N900 AIUI | 00:53 |
| pupnik_ | you can temporarily enable -devel just for a package or two | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, yeah, I think that's still up in the air even internally. | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, however, whether Nokia ships support or not seems much less relevant with MeeGo. | 00:54 |
| sobczyk_ | pupnik_, yeah great idea too | 00:54 |
| sobczyk_ | thx | 00:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: given the statement "maemo apps will run on MeeGo", I just don't like to see maemo5 won't benefit from all the app development for MeeGo | 00:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Qt 4.6 on both platforms | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: ... if we were left with maemo5 (6?) on N900, whole the MeeGo train rides on | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/whole/while/ | 00:57 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: GeneralAntilles: ... if we were left with maemo5 (6?) on N900, while the MeeGo train rides on | 00:57 |
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| wiretapped | deb vs rpm vs dontcare poll: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44597 | 00:57 |
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| kynky | tar.gz++ | 00:58 |
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| sobczyk_ | wheres the del key mapped? | 01:01 |
| frals | ~curse error-unspecified | 01:01 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, error-unspecified ! | 01:01 |
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| frals | MMSC RESPONDED: {'Message-ID': 'g5pv8sawg47q92@w.mms.tele2.se', 'MMS-Version': '1.0', 'Response-Status': 'Error-unspecified'} | 01:01 |
| frals | best error message :< | 01:01 |
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| sandman | Why the hell did they choose RPM! (sorry, needed to say it) | 01:04 |
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| lardman | hmm, is there a desktop email widget? | 01:04 |
| ShadowJK | So that they wouldn't have to switch back to deb again | 01:05 |
| t-tan | sandman: to get rid of Maemo5 apps, Debian ARM know-how and open-source loving Debian fans | 01:05 |
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| KamuiN900 | lardman: conversations kind of | 01:05 |
| lardman | does that do email? | 01:06 |
| KamuiN900 | convo desktop widget i mean | 01:06 |
| w00t | frals: I've seen worse | 01:06 |
| w00t | "error: everything fine!" | 01:06 |
| KamuiN900 | tells you new mail vs unopened | 01:06 |
| frals | w00t: hehe, loving how i sent the exact same message 20seconds later and it accepted it... >_< | 01:06 |
| sandman | t-tan: guess so. I hope they change their mind | 01:06 |
| lardman | hmm, am really after a desktop app like the one on Win Mobile HTC something, which presents emails and allows you to scroll through like pieces of paper | 01:06 |
| Stskeeps | t-tan: arent most debian arm guys at nokia anyway? | 01:06 |
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| sandman | I understand the merge but not the rpm.. shit... | 01:07 |
| lardman | http://nexus404.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads2/2009/11/HTC-HD2-mail-view-400.jpg | 01:07 |
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| sandman | Stskeeps: Do you have any insights? I see you op at #meego.. how big is the chance of .deb in meego? | 01:10 |
| lardman | hmm, that conversations inbox doesn't allow you to scroll, you have to sit and wait | 01:10 |
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| ShadowJK | sandman, any "efforts" based on feeling alone: nil | 01:11 |
| t-tan | Stskeeps: I have no idea. their email adresses don't like @nokia | 01:11 |
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| * sandman starts digging a hole | 01:11 | |
| jacekowski | sandman: meego was designed for .rpm | 01:11 |
| t-tan | sandman: I think it was a political decision, not based on technical considerations | 01:11 |
| wiretapped | R.I.P. maemo http://www.maemoit.org/extra/lapide.jpg | 01:11 |
| ShadowJK | The switch to RPM probably happend quite some time ago? | 01:12 |
| jacekowski | what's wrong with maemo? | 01:12 |
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| sandman | t-tan: guess so | 01:12 |
| t-tan | jacekowski: how can you design a distribution for a specific package format?? | 01:12 |
| jacekowski | it comes with rpm by default | 01:12 |
| jacekowski | that's all | 01:12 |
| t-tan | Moblin switched from .deb to .rpm last year | 01:12 |
| jacekowski | replacing package manager is ussualy a problem | 01:12 |
| javispedro | Moblin switched from basing on Ubuntu to Fedora. | 01:13 |
| jacekowski | because it breaks compatibility | 01:13 |
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| KamuiN900 | thought of one possible rpm advantage | 01:13 |
| KamuiN900 | the only one | 01:13 |
| pupnik_ | fatalsaint makes a good point about rpm distros non-compliance | 01:13 |
| KamuiN900 | you can vhange the installation root | 01:13 |
| t-tan | the claimed that rpm would be better suited for proprietary software | 01:13 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: after basing for a year on ubuntu; i can see why they might have | 01:14 |
| sandman | shit | 01:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, that one made me a bit misty eyed. | 01:14 |
| KamuiN900 | so no worries on installation of non optified packages | 01:14 |
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| t-tan | maybe Ubuntu's release cycle was to fast for them? | 01:14 |
| woglinde_ | t-tan *g* | 01:15 |
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| javispedro | KamuiN900: dpkg --root? But that doesn't take care of putting binaries in path, etc. | 01:15 |
| ShadowJK | fedora has 6 month cycle.. | 01:15 |
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| sandman | if they have based on Ubuntu before then it should not be a problem to go back.. especially when they merge Maemo | 01:15 |
| KamuiN900 | javispedro: you demolished my theory | 01:16 |
| ShadowJK | I think it's just a divide between nokia and intel, intel is better at the lower level stuff, and nokia is better at the UI stuff, so they decided to take UI from Nokia and base system from Intel | 01:16 |
| javispedro | thus firing the entire nokia lower stuff staff and the entire intel higher stuff staff? /me wonders | 01:17 |
| t-tan | sandman: true. AFAIK Ubuntu's netbook remix is a Moblin 2 implementation | 01:18 |
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| ShadowJK | "From what I understand from [1], the the thing I'll miss most will be X11." "[1] http://qt.nokia.com/products/platform/qt-for-embedded-linux#compact-efficient-windowing-system" | 01:18 |
| ShadowJK | oh dear | 01:18 |
| ShadowJK | I hope X11 wont disappear | 01:18 |
| microlith | yeah | 01:18 |
| ShadowJK | how will I run xchat without X11 :/ | 01:18 |
| microlith | I'd hate to be forced to use Qt | 01:19 |
| t-tan | maybe the maemo community should try to port the Maemo components to Ubuntu? | 01:19 |
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| TheNerdTV | Scream: LOL IM A HAXXOR | 01:19 |
| TheNerdTV | Scream: LOL IM A HAXXOR | 01:19 |
| TheNerdTV | Scream: LOL IM A HAXXOR | 01:19 |
| TheNerdTV | Scream: LOL IM A HAXXOR | 01:19 |
| TheNerdTV | Scream: LOL IM A HAXXOR | 01:19 |
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| lardman | what, where's X11 going? | 01:19 |
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| t-tan | microlith: they'll continue Gtk support | 01:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dumbass | 01:19 |
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| lardman | I wonder who scream is? | 01:20 |
| ml-mobile | t-tan: not if they ditch X and do that Qt framebuffer crap | 01:20 |
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| lardman | I can't see going back to that really | 01:20 |
| lardman | made porting apps a pita | 01:20 |
| ds3 | are the cheaper vendors shipping N900's now? | 01:20 |
| javispedro | I could :) but I don't really expect that for M6 nor the foreseable future. | 01:21 |
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| lardman | QTE was abandoned wasn't it? | 01:21 |
| rohanpm | neither maemo5 nor maemo6 is currently using "qt for embedded linux" | 01:21 |
| * GeneralAntilles notes mwkn is completely devoid of relevant info for this week. | 01:21 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Half the stuff we covered was obsoleted. . . . | 01:21 |
| javispedro | you get used to it. | 01:21 |
| t-tan | GTK support: http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture , X11 is not mentioned | 01:21 |
| lardman | probably assumed | 01:22 |
| lardman | ? | 01:22 |
| javispedro | of course... | 01:22 |
| rohanpm | lardman: qt embedded is still supported | 01:22 |
| lardman | rohanpm: really? | 01:23 |
| rohanpm | yes | 01:23 |
| lardman | rohanpm: still based on the very old version of Qt? | 01:23 |
| rohanpm | lardman: qt embedded is just another platform of qt | 01:23 |
| rohanpm | the latest qt versions support it | 01:23 |
| lardman | oh ok | 01:23 |
| rohanpm | it's not a separately distributed thing | 01:23 |
| woglinde_ | lardman you mean qtopia | 01:23 |
| woglinde_ | which is long dead | 01:23 |
| t-tan | oh wait: yes, X11 support http://meego.com/developers/hardware-enabling-process | 01:24 |
| lardman | ah yes, that's probably what I'm thinking off | 01:24 |
| rohanpm | lardman: no Nokia devices which have Qt are actually using qt embedded though (AFAIK) | 01:24 |
| rohanpm | maemo uses qt/x11 and symbian uses qt/symbian | 01:25 |
| pupnik_ | what's that new cleanroom X-derivative called | 01:25 |
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| woglinde_ | pupnik wayland? | 01:27 |
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| sandman | t-tan: I am with you on that.. there should make a repo for debians too. So the hardware are supported. | 01:30 |
| lardman | is push email free? | 01:30 |
| lardman | e.g. the Nokia Messenging stuff? | 01:30 |
| sandman | t-tan: there is a possibility to repack to .deb | 01:31 |
| ShadowJK | lardman, "no" | 01:31 |
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| ShadowJK | lardman, long answer: it depends on the country you live in and the operator you have | 01:31 |
| lardman | ah I see | 01:32 |
| lardman | and if it's not free, does it count as data usage? Or do I really need to check? | 01:32 |
| t-tan | sandman: unfortunately, the package format is not sufficient. it's the whole infrastructure | 01:32 |
| lardman | I never realised there was even the option for push email on the N900 | 01:32 |
| jebba | wow. meego. just read about this. | 01:32 |
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| t-tan | sandman: but if MeeGo is really open-source (I doubt it) porting the hardware specific stuff to Ubuntu Netbook should be easy | 01:33 |
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| sandman | t-tan: damn.. but i am sure i have seen something like than.... was it alien it was called. The program sucked but hey... | 01:33 |
| sandman | t-tan: let's hope on that | 01:33 |
| sandman | t-tan: the latest news from Nokia have frighten me a lot | 01:34 |
| t-tan | jebba: long time no see | 01:34 |
| jebba | ya, been running around a lot :) just catching up now | 01:34 |
| t-tan | jebba: you just learned that Maemo is RIP? | 01:35 |
| jebba | uh huh. | 01:35 |
| jebba | quite a surprise. Back to RPM again, i guess ;) | 01:35 |
| t-tan | sandman: alien is only for the raw package conversion, but not for distribution specific stuff | 01:36 |
| woglinde_ | jebba no thanks | 01:36 |
| woglinde_ | I will not touch spec files | 01:36 |
| sandman | t-tan: ahh... was ages ago since i heard about it | 01:36 |
| woglinde_ | only paied | 01:36 |
| woglinde_ | ups paid | 01:36 |
| t-tan | I'll only buy RPM based devices if I get a huge discount | 01:37 |
| javispedro | heh | 01:37 |
| KamuiN900 | jeez, is it just me or is the ntfs samba mounter slow as balls | 01:37 |
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| Quad | http://www.sexyemilie.com/?id=2049953 | 01:39 |
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| MikeJB | What happened to my favorite Finnish channel to lurk in? | 01:40 |
| MikeJB | Something happened *just* as a learned how to pronounce Maemo the other day? | 01:41 |
| uhsf | anything new here since this morning that i should know? | 01:41 |
| ds3 | sanity check question - maemo5 == N900's version, right? | 01:41 |
| marmoute | ds3: True | 01:42 |
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| marmoute | uhsf: maemo's dead | 01:42 |
| ds3 | thanks | 01:42 |
| MikeJB | uhsf: Maemo + Moblin = Meego | 01:42 |
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| uhsf | i know this i was here this morning | 01:42 |
| satmd | it's dead when meego arrives | 01:42 |
| satmd | not before | 01:42 |
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| ds3 | one more nomeclature question - fremantle == maemo5 right? | 01:42 |
| uhsf | i meant any new development about this | 01:42 |
| javispedro | it's dead, jim. | 01:42 |
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| MikeJB | So Maemo 6 = Meego 1? | 01:43 |
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| w00t | no branding decision on maemo6 has been made yet | 01:43 |
| pinchartl | MikeJB: Maemo 6 == Harmattan | 01:43 |
| w00t | (iirc) | 01:43 |
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| pinchartl | at least before the MeeGo project announcement | 01:43 |
| uhsf | i'm happy to have bought a n900 when it was released because the next device will work on rpms so it will suck | 01:43 |
| MikeJB | The news articles I read, well, I'm not sure they got into the guts enough. | 01:43 |
| MikeJB | It'll use RPMs? | 01:44 |
| pekuja | uhsf: are you serious? | 01:44 |
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| pinchartl | I'm not aware of anything having been published regarding whether Maemo6 will still be released outside of the MeeGo project | 01:44 |
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| ds3 | maybe the N1000 will be an atom then all this is moot | 01:44 |
| * MikeJB is a bit of a Fedora fan, so switching to RPMs would be great. | 01:44 | |
| MikeJB | I practically grew up on Red Hat Linux and Fedora... | 01:44 |
| w00t | oh dear, packaging discussion again | 01:44 |
| * w00t goes back to work | 01:44 | |
| pinchartl | hehe | 01:44 |
| pinchartl | has anything been published regarding what package manager MeeGo will use ? | 01:45 |
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| woglinde_ | pinchart no | 01:45 |
| woglinde_ | only rpm based | 01:45 |
| * cpscotti but apt-get moo is sooo cooler | 01:45 | |
| pinchartl | .deb vs .rpm have been discussed in length, but I don't think that's an important issue | 01:45 |
| MikeJB | Ubuntu swung the balance in favor of .deb, I'd like to see The Package balance out again. | 01:45 |
| woglinde_ | moblin has yum | 01:45 |
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| MikeJB | And yum is awesome. | 01:45 |
| pinchartl | I'm pretty sure someone could port apt to .rpm :-) | 01:45 |
| MikeJB | But for the end-user... | 01:45 |
| wazd | MeeGo time! | 01:45 |
| prusnak | there already is apt-rpm | 01:45 |
| woglinde_ | pinchart is already done | 01:45 |
| MikeJB | "yum install wesnoth" is probably similar to "apt-get install wesnoth" :P | 01:46 |
| wazd | it sounds like Ari decided to quit | 01:46 |
| pinchartl | :-) | 01:46 |
| MikeJB | So really, technicalities aren't the most important thing. | 01:46 |
| woglinde_ | wazd hm? | 01:46 |
| MikeJB | I am curious on what the guts of the OS will be, though. | 01:46 |
| woglinde_ | wazd the blogpost was diffrent | 01:46 |
| wazd | woglinde_: well, me_go joke :P | 01:46 |
| woglinde_ | wazd or ari and quim are good at black humor | 01:46 |
| woglinde_ | dont know | 01:46 |
| wazd | meego sleep anyway :D | 01:47 |
| pupnik_ | argh | 01:47 |
| w00t | meego find a less horrible name | 01:47 |
| pupnik_ | it's the jar jar binks distro :( | 01:48 |
| * javispedro now quietly reminds his tmo "so how you know m6 doesn't suck" post at the "n900 owners want m6 thread" | 01:48 | |
| pupnik_ | :) | 01:48 |
| ph1l | yodülidü, i develop for maemo, i don't know if megoo suprort n900, jodulidüüü, if n900 go for my efforts gonna | 01:49 |
| ph1l | ups... | 01:49 |
| ph1l | sorry | 01:49 |
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| satmd | currently there's no reason NOT to support n900 | 01:49 |
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| ph1l | satmd: tell me a reason why they should support "old" hardware on the new plattform | 01:51 |
| satmd | because it's no extra work | 01:51 |
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| ph1l | same like intel.... they didn't even support theyr own plattform... like gma500! | 01:52 |
| voltagex | bye maemo, we hardly knew you :( | 01:52 |
| ph1l | please ignore me, i'm just pissed off... | 01:54 |
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| ShadowJK | If you develop for QT on maemo it'll require minimal effort to make it work on meego | 01:54 |
| Scelt | it was nice to buy a 550 euro mobile phone just to get to know that in half a year it's total history and already efforts are taken away from it | 01:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Scelt, erm? | 01:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Scelt, WeeGo actually makes it more likely that there's continued support for the N900. | 01:55 |
| Scelt | sure | 01:56 |
| jacquesdptd | hi everybody | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | Scelt, you know that most developers started working on Maemo6 before the phone was in the shops, right? :) | 01:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Scelt, yes, because your FUD is so useful. | 01:56 |
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| jacquesdptd | i'm happy to that channel, been testing maemo on a nokia n900, was using ubuntu for 5 years and i'm building a tablet pc prototype and i think i'm gonna choose one of the maemo branches | 01:56 |
| jacquesdptd | :) | 01:56 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: I prefer MeeGoo | 01:56 |
| jacquesdptd | so hello | 01:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lardman, guh, it's a hard goddamn name to type. | 01:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | What were they thinking?! | 01:57 |
| wiretapped | GeneralAntilles: have you read jaaksi's latest blog post? | 01:57 |
| jacquesdptd | sad MeeGoo aint downloadble for testing right know | 01:57 |
| Scelt | ShadowJK: but maemo6 is not meego | 01:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | We should just rename it to "MeeGo (What were they thinking?!)" | 01:57 |
| ph1l | ShadowJK: yeah shure, what i'm missing is the statement that the new vesrsion will support n900, because if not, i've no reason to support the whole platform at all. | 01:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | jacquesdptd, they said they should have something out in a few weeks. | 01:57 |
| wiretapped | if nokia was willing to support maemo6 on the N900 I think they would be singing it from the rooftops right now | 01:57 |
| jacquesdptd | yes i just talked with one of the dev | 01:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Whatever, I'm so not interested in playing this FUD game again. | 01:58 |
| Scelt | use no marketing terms | 01:58 |
| wiretapped | instead they're emphasizing that you can develop software for maemo6 using your maemo5 device | 01:58 |
| Scelt | ain't making you cooler, son | 01:58 |
| jacquesdptd | so guys what would you suggest me for a 15 inch tablet resistive touch with amd sempron 2000, 1 gig of memory ddr 2 and nvidia based graphic | 01:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Scelt, FUD's a marketing term? | 01:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Scelt, anyway, first warning. | 01:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm so not in the mood. | 01:59 |
| jacquesdptd | i would like a UI smooth full of effect and usuable with the fingers | 01:59 |
| Lumpio- | jacquesdptd: ipad | 01:59 |
| jacquesdptd | do you guys have ideas ? | 01:59 |
| Scelt | GeneralAntilles: first warning? | 01:59 |
| jacquesdptd | ipad is far slower than my stuff, not open, no usb, expensive, monotouch, apple is it enough Lumpio- ? | 01:59 |
| Lumpio- | aw. | 02:00 |
| jacquesdptd | my thing is more notebook / netbook / tablet-pc / ipad | 02:00 |
| Lumpio- | I don't get the point of big tablets in the first place | 02:00 |
| jacquesdptd | same point of netbooks | 02:00 |
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| voltagex | openmoko died we have no more options | 02:00 |
| lardman | argh | 02:01 |
| javispedro | Pandora! | 02:01 |
| lardman | bloody C++ | 02:01 |
| cehteh | big tablet = ebook reader | 02:01 |
| cehteh | .. plus some more fun | 02:01 |
| cehteh | well i want colored e-ink for that and weeks lasting battery | 02:01 |
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| ph1l | it's just iritating... maemo is gonna die.... symbina: if no one want's it you make it open source.... and now the coorperation with a product like moblin which didn't even supports it's own hardware... shame on intel!!! | 02:02 |
| jacquesdptd | but this time in your hands, my device will have different possibilities, you come back home, it controls your house medias, you go outside in a internet coffee bar, it makes a real good computer to work on, you're at work you can still work or plug it to video projector for showing project or medias, you are cooking, you have you're kitchen computer, Lumpio- do you need others reasons ? | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I tried to use my n900 in the oven earlier. | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | It wouldn't get wifi alas. | 02:03 |
| Lumpio- | I guess it's all kind of hard to imagine for me | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | (to monitor bread rising) | 02:03 |
| Lumpio- | When I come back home I sit in front of my house medias, I don't go into coffee shops, and I have a desktop computer at work. Which I don't use for presentations. | 02:03 |
| ShadowJK | ph1l, I thought meego == opensource maemo ontop of moblin base | 02:03 |
| javispedro | lol at the rpm vs deb holy war. | 02:04 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 02:04 |
| * GeneralAntilles throws holy water on javispedro. | 02:04 | |
| ali1234 | rpm vs deb is just bikeshedding | 02:05 |
| ShadowJK | I probably shouldn't say it, but I've always been annoyed at when someone just uploaded something from debian straight. With debian's maintainer emails and debian's bugtrackers, etc... | 02:05 |
| ShadowJK | ali1234, indeed. | 02:05 |
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| ShadowJK | <ShadowJK> I guess when just the packaging becomes such a "big" part of "porting" an app, it just tells you something about how portable that app is and how close to mainstream distros a distro is... the big picture is missing somewhere ;) | 02:05 |
| ali1234 | debs can be abused just like rpms - there is no better example of that than maemo | 02:05 |
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| ph1l | ShadowJK, just that moblin (intel) sucks much! again, they sell gma500 and don't support it on theyre own plattform... | 02:06 |
| jacquesdptd | Lumpio-, as you said , it's you, i've got already orders, anyway we don't care about what i'm doing i wanna help to get things working and maybe find some help | 02:06 |
| cehteh | .. just everyone buy a n900 and write software for it and dont care for maemo6 any beyond .. lets see what nokia thinks then :P | 02:06 |
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| ph1l | ShadowJK, i hope nokia has more responsibility thowards theyre customers.. | 02:07 |
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| * javispedro throws some more fire | 02:07 | |
| javispedro | s/fire/holy fire | 02:07 |
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| lardman | Holy Handgrenade? | 02:08 |
| ShadowJK | ph1l, well Nokia doesn't support Maemo on most of their devices either. | 02:08 |
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| ph1l | ShadowJK: Don't tell me that Nokia didn't support Maemo... it's theyre only weapon against the holy jobbs-store | 02:10 |
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| ph1l | if there's no apps for maemo... they gonna die.. | 02:11 |
| ShadowJK | ph1l, there have been 5 maemo devices, and during that time about 60 other devices from nokia which did not support Maemo. Intel's ratio with Moblin is probably no worse. | 02:11 |
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| gjl | what's interesting is that moblin is being referred to as an Intel project. Didn't Intel offload it to the Linux Foundation a while ago? | 02:12 |
| ph1l | yeah, i agree, it's nice to have intel on board, for sure! ... i just hope that nokia dont't drop support for n900 | 02:13 |
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| pupnik_ | intel is nice like godzilla | 02:13 |
| ShadowJK | We always knew they'd drop support for N900. They always do that ;-) | 02:13 |
| ph1l | jeah... | 02:14 |
| * pupnik_ senses a new opportunity for mer | 02:14 | |
| ShadowJK | And hey! We should be happy, we've gotten more features to N900 than we were supposed to! | 02:14 |
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| ph1l | what i'd like to say is that niether intel nor nokia is going to push support on old devices , just because they like to sell new devices... | 02:15 |
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| pupnik_ | new devices are nice as long as the hardware doesn't get worse | 02:16 |
| pupnik_ | <cough> speakers | 02:16 |
| javispedro | so | 02:16 |
| javispedro | since I hardly believe any of you can alter any step of the mr. magoo distro merge, | 02:17 |
| Aranel | dont want to interrupt, anyway: will N900 receive new updates? as in Maemo 6 maybe? | 02:17 |
| javispedro | why not create a useless^Wonline petition for Nokia to keep the Maemo brand? :) | 02:17 |
| ph1l | i don't beleve anyone until i've got a goomeeee (whatewver) support for my n900 :-D | 02:17 |
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| bef0rd | somehow I'm glad I skipped the n900 | 02:17 |
| * GeneralAntilles is tempted to setup a global autocomplete for MeeGo. Mee "What were they thinking?!" Go | 02:18 | |
| pupnik_ | damn t-online blocking talk.maemo.org again | 02:18 |
| milos_ | Hi AMeegos! | 02:18 |
| Lumpio- | They're blocking a forum? | 02:18 |
| Lumpio- | What is this, North Korea? | 02:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | milos_, kill me now. | 02:19 |
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| satmd | huh? t-online does? | 02:19 |
| ph1l | bef0rd, yeah, this way you've just don't get that much telefone calls :-) | 02:19 |
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| milos_ | Hehe :) | 02:19 |
| pupnik_ | yes Lumpio- german goverment forced ISPs to proxy/record DNS lookups and t-online's implementation breaks without a router that redirects IPs | 02:19 |
| pupnik_ | IP addresses | 02:19 |
| Lumpio- | nice | 02:19 |
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| satmd | that's hardly true that way you put it | 02:20 |
| pupnik_ | sorry modem | 02:20 |
| satmd | just turn off the 'navigations-hilfe' | 02:20 |
| pupnik_ | it's behind the router | 02:20 |
| ph1l | bullshit -> pupnik_, you can have any dns-server you want | 02:20 |
| satmd | ph1l: not if udp/53 is restricted | 02:21 |
| pupnik_ | i can use opendns or verizon, which isn't much better tbh | 02:21 |
| bef0rd | google public dns? | 02:21 |
| satmd | 4.2.2.2 | 02:21 |
| pupnik_ | give them a call. they will tell you you need to upgrade their modem | 02:21 |
| ph1l | please don't tell me that german isp are blocking port 53... shure? | 02:21 |
| satmd | pupnik_: I WORKED for them 5 years ago | 02:22 |
| pupnik_ | good, then tell me what they did to break their dns servers | 02:22 |
| satmd | nothing, works fine on my box over there | 02:22 |
| ph1l | damn, glad i'm not from europe :-) | 02:22 |
| pupnik_ | how do you turn off 'navigations-hilfe' | 02:22 |
| satmd | more likely you have problems with mtu or pmtu | 02:22 |
| pupnik_ | nm, it works again | 02:23 |
| satmd | pupnik_: surf a non-existant domain | 02:23 |
| satmd | the resulting webpage will have a link to the settings of your account, where you can turn it off | 02:23 |
| pupnik_ | ahh i see at the bottom, ty | 02:23 |
| satmd | ;) | 02:23 |
| pupnik_ | after a while it works again. do you know why? | 02:24 |
| pupnik_ | same url | 02:24 |
| satmd | most likely you're running into pmtu/mtu issues | 02:24 |
| satmd | get drtcp and set the mtu to 1492, enable blackhole detection and path mtu | 02:24 |
| satmd | on linux, ifconfig eth0 mtu 1492 | 02:25 |
| satmd | :p | 02:25 |
| satmd | (or ppp0) | 02:25 |
| satmd | will need restarting of networking or reboot | 02:26 |
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| ph1l | so what you would sugesst... i have a greate software for maemo5... what should i do... waiting for meego for releasing? | 02:28 |
| ptl | do it in qt | 02:28 |
| ph1l | it's qt allready... | 02:29 |
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| ph1l | oh, no it's gtk | 02:29 |
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| ptl | ph1l: I think you should ask the meego guys at #meego | 02:30 |
| ptl | try to dodge the rpm/deb flamewar | 02:30 |
| ph1l | it's about home-partition encryption... so at this point youn dont have hildon... or qt | 02:31 |
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| ShadowJK | I suspect that will be specific to every device anyway | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | Since every device will most likely have different storage devices | 02:32 |
| wazd | weeeell... | 02:33 |
| wazd | just checked WM7 demo | 02:33 |
| ph1l | ShadowJK: i would be so glad if there would be a generic hook... | 02:33 |
| wazd | I think they've "flattened" UI a bit too much :) | 02:33 |
| lcuk | wazd, what do you mean? | 02:34 |
| lcuk | and pics will help | 02:34 |
| woglinde | jo lcuk | 02:34 |
| lcuk | hi woglinde | 02:34 |
| wazd | lcuk: well, they now have some kind of "typographic" centric UI | 02:34 |
| * lcuk rpms woglinde | 02:34 | |
| woglinde | lcuk what a sad day | 02:34 |
| lcuk | pics? | 02:34 |
| wazd | lcuk: http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7-series-is-official-and-microsoft-is-playing-to/ | 02:35 |
| lcuk | woglinde to put things in perspective, im burying my gran tomorrow. i would happily use rpms for the rest of my life if it brought her back | 02:35 |
| lcuk | oh that wazd, it reminded me of liqbase | 02:35 |
| wazd | lcuk: well, metro UI concept existed in XP media center already :P | 02:36 |
| lcuk | indeed | 02:36 |
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| lcuk | but that one made me sit up a bit more than usual | 02:36 |
| lcuk | do you think the photos zoom when you click em | 02:37 |
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| frals | lcuk; plenty of answers in #meego eh? ;) | 02:40 |
| wazd | lcuk: looks like no :) | 02:40 |
| lcuk | indeed | 02:40 |
| lcuk | and which answer is that | 02:41 |
| frals | and my condolences :< | 02:41 |
| lcuk | wazd ^ mine here, or the meego one | 02:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sorry to hear that, lcuk. :( | 02:41 |
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| wazd | lcuk: bout zooming pictures :) | 02:41 |
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| wazd | lcuk: I don't care bout meego much right now | 02:41 |
| lcuk | wazd, oh, they dont? how do you see one fullscreen after you panned to the thumbs? | 02:42 |
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| wazd | lcuk: well, it just opens :) | 02:42 |
| lcuk | aww | 02:42 |
| lcuk | lol | 02:42 |
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| javispedro | I was pondering... does anyone know about any Hildon-input-method protocol documentation other than the source? | 02:43 |
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| javispedro | cause I've just read some summit slides that make a passing reference to that documentation (including a "SDL binding") | 02:43 |
| frals | javispedro: i recall a mailinglist post about it but not sure there is any actual docs | 02:44 |
| javispedro | hm.. | 02:44 |
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| javispedro | frals: ok, found it. thanks. | 02:51 |
| frals | np | 02:51 |
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| frals | i wonder if they try really hard not to understand you there lcuk | 02:53 |
| * frals heads back to playing with breaking gprs | 02:53 | |
| GeneralAntilles | It's amazing that for all of ars generally excellent articles their commenters are really nearly YouTube levels of idiocy. | 02:53 |
| lcuk | frals, i find that really odd | 02:53 |
| lcuk | there was fanfare 12months ago about all these moblin machines, i cant find a single one | 02:53 |
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| lcuk | anyway, bed for me, long day tomorrow | 02:54 |
| frals | gnite :) | 02:54 |
| woglinde | nite lcuk | 02:54 |
| javispedro | good nite lcuk | 02:54 |
| javispedro | it's quite a bit of a cultural clash. | 02:55 |
| javispedro | and I though maemo and moblin were somewhat similar... | 02:55 |
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| javispedro | my next merger proposal: pandora vs meego communities! | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 02:56 |
| frals | he :D | 02:56 |
| * javispedro joes watch that dilbert tv series episode about mergers | 02:56 | |
| frals | mm, new version of fmms posted, better head to bed before it hits the repos so im fast asleep while the shitstorm hits | 02:56 |
| javispedro | s/joes/goes | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | February 15th, 2010 | 02:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RIP Maemo | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.maemoit.org/extra/lapide.jpg | 02:56 |
| javispedro | yes, a bad day indeed. | 02:56 |
| woglinde | frals *g* | 02:57 |
| t-tan | good nite | 02:57 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles | 02:57 | |
| *** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | Join #meego for discussions about the merger | http://www.maemoit.org/extra/lapide.jpg" | 02:57 | |
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| javispedro | and this is how maemo dies... with thunderous rpm vs deb holy war. | 02:57 |
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| ali1234 | man i knew there would be a huge argument about it but i didn't think it would be this bad | 02:59 |
| uhsf | ²/c | 02:59 |
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| javispedro | I'm actually impressed that rpm is the "holy issue". just the merge itself is more an issue... | 03:00 |
| ali1234 | i figured rpm would be the big issue | 03:00 |
| frals | im just curious whats happening to the maemo.org community | 03:01 |
| ali1234 | nothing else is really clear | 03:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | frals, hoping to run for council to help steer that in the right direction. | 03:01 |
| javispedro | ah.. osnews. | 03:01 |
| javispedro | so yesterday they were saying that "a new OS is always good, competition!" | 03:01 |
| frals | because from what ive gathered moblin got 0 community | 03:01 |
| ShadowJK | It starts looking more and more like me like meego is becoming maemo's upstream, since meego on nokia will be different then meego on <othermanufacturer> anyway. | 03:01 |
| javispedro | today they're saying that "... unification that is much needed in ..." | 03:01 |
| frals | ShadowJK: yeah, judging from the #meego chatter it seems that way | 03:02 |
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| javispedro | ShadowJK: that's my actual impression too. if that's the case, then I don't consider it awful either. | 03:02 |
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| javispedro | since for one we'll finally have 100% oss "core platform" -- no more closed icd2! yay! | 03:02 |
| ali1234 | ShadowJK: yes, exactly. and maemo desperately needs an upstream to bring some structure | 03:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wish they'd keep the brand. . . . | 03:03 |
| ali1234 | meego is a terrible name, without doubt | 03:03 |
| uhsf | should've been Meeko, OpenMeeko | 03:03 |
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| javispedro | even OpenMeeko sounds better :) | 03:03 |
| ali1234 | "me" and "we/wii" are the new "Xtreme" | 03:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | You know, it took Freenode 18 freaking months to process the damn contact form now it's complete useless. | 03:04 |
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| mece | GeneralAntilles, I REALLY want to keep the maemo brand alive too. I was actually thinking about that just now.. | 03:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | People are already abandoning the mask. | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/mask/cloak | 03:05 |
| javispedro | things to worry about: secretism (why? oh, why???), the new leadership,.. | 03:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Who owns the maemo trademark? | 03:05 |
| frals | now, im a noob in this community, but, i dont see why this community would have to die or go away | 03:05 |
| Anidel | they couldn't have kept the name.. neither of them | 03:05 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: it doesn't. | 03:05 |
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| Anidel | I think that if they did would meant one of the two was disappearing into the other... | 03:05 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: however - people only have so much time. | 03:06 |
| mece | perhaps the community could keep the brand | 03:06 |
| javispedro | a nice move would be to opensource all the fremantle gtk apps :) | 03:06 |
| strohi | what will happen with actual maemo devices? | 03:06 |
| mece | I wouldn't mind at all if moblin disappeared into maemo... | 03:06 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: Add to that that devs go - largely - where the users do. | 03:06 |
| penguinbait | you got your maemo in my moblin, you got your moblin in my maemo | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anidel, problem is, Moblin doesn't have a community. | 03:07 |
| Anidel | mece: you don't... others do. I don't care about the name.. I can be romantic and stick with Maemo (great name).. but oh well.. in the end.. it's just a Maemo reincarnation. | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anidel, Maemo has a very strong one around maemo.org | 03:07 |
| Anidel | GeneralAntilles, so what? | 03:07 |
| wizkoder | hy everybody | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anidel, so killing our community identity out from under us is a low blow. | 03:07 |
| mece | Andiel, who? | 03:07 |
| Anidel | GeneralAntilles, that should go follow Maemo into MeeGo | 03:07 |
| penguinbait | Maemo was NOT a great name, but way better than meego | 03:07 |
| penguinbait | I would rather Moblin | 03:07 |
| Anidel | GeneralAntilles, it is.. but.. it's done.. so let's deal with it | 03:07 |
| frals | SpeedEvil: what i figured, there are quite some movement behind maemo.org... and moblin seems to have 0 :P | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | We own the maemo.org trademark more or less. | 03:08 |
| mece | frals, exactly! | 03:08 |
| mece | GeneralAntilles, so, let's keep it. | 03:08 |
| frals | anyway, im still curious of how this whole maemo/meego "merge" is actually gonna go down and whats gonna be separate | 03:08 |
| Anidel | GeneralAntilles, let's make it meego.org then.. like it or not | 03:08 |
| javispedro | frals: yes, me too., | 03:08 |
| javispedro | I have to wonder if unifying garage is even the right idea. | 03:08 |
| frals | because by the sounds of #meego chatter meego is only lowlevel stuff and each manufacturer gets to add their own flavor on top | 03:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think it's unfortunate that there's so much on the Maemo side and so little on the Moblin side and yet the whole merger so far has been VERY biased towards Intel. | 03:09 |
| cehteh | mhm after all 3 stars its hard to beat ones own highscores in angry-birds :P | 03:09 |
| Anidel | frals, I think they'll both earn a new UI and the core will be merged from hopefully the best pieces of both platform... | 03:09 |
| frals | Anidel: one can hope :) either way, time will tell i guess | 03:09 |
| jacekowski | i think the whole thing is more about sticking american intel chips into phones | 03:09 |
| jacquesdptd | hi | 03:09 |
| Anidel | GeneralAntilles, you think it'll be like that or seen it? | 03:09 |
| jacekowski | instead of european ARM chips | 03:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anidel, infra is Intel | 03:10 |
| Anidel | frals, but we can push for it as well | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anidel, technical details are mainly Intel. | 03:10 |
| javispedro | jacekowski: Embrace Maemo, Extend MeeGo, Entiguish ARM! | 03:10 |
| jacquesdptd | i'm actually testing moblin 2 and i wanted to know if anybody here managed to make it run using virtual box ? | 03:10 |
| wizkoder | meego reminds me of that hobbits name in lotr. smeegol :-) | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anidel, all of the "MeeGo" people I've talked to so far are all Intel. | 03:10 |
| Anidel | GeneralAntilles, Nokia isn't trashing Maemo into Moblin either | 03:10 |
| jacekowski | but everybody knows that ARM is superior | 03:10 |
| javispedro | s/Entinguish/Extinguish | 03:10 |
| jacekowski | arm is native RISC processor | 03:10 |
| javispedro | Anidel: Nokia is trashing all the low level stuff of Maemo | 03:10 |
| jacekowski | while all x86 are only RISC inside while outside is still x86 and whole pipeline has to translate | 03:11 |
| javispedro | but, much like with the Qt move, "because the low level Moblin stuff is nicer and more open". | 03:11 |
| jacquesdptd | javispedro, really ? | 03:11 |
| Anidel | javispedro, you mean ofono? | 03:11 |
| jacquesdptd | javispedro, you can't run it into 1,2,3 levels ? | 03:11 |
| ali1234 | javispedro: good. all the low level stuff of maemo is either closed or broken or both | 03:11 |
| jacekowski | ali1234: it's working for m | 03:11 |
| jacekowski | e | 03:11 |
| jacquesdptd | javispedro, i've tried the nokia n900 | 03:11 |
| javispedro | Anidel: more than ofono -- icd2 comes to mind. | 03:11 |
| Anidel | GeneralAntilles, so what ? I am sure Intel had more free people to prepare the ground than maemo people | 03:11 |
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| wizkoder | where can I find the documentation for "Hildon Touch Text Entry"? | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anidel, it's frustrating and doesn't help my whole "I've been punched in the gut" feeling. | 03:12 |
| jacquesdptd | what you guys think of modde ? | 03:12 |
| Anidel | anyway.. time will tell.. but let's voice our concern to our maemo guys... I like Maemo, but as long as its soul is there.. I can be fine | 03:12 |
| jacquesdptd | madde | 03:12 |
| jacquesdptd | i meant | 03:12 |
| Anidel | GeneralAntilles, I know.. me neither .. and I am still digesting.. | 03:12 |
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| frals | i think whats needed is to focus on getting a council elected that got the time and energy to see this merger through | 03:13 |
| microlith | here's a question: If maemo.org is going to go by the wayside, what happens to the existing repos and the devices that dependon them? | 03:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | microlith, no idea. | 03:13 |
| microlith | frals: and hoping that the meego people listen? | 03:13 |
| mece | Well after hearing the name MeeGo, Maemo suddenly seems very unique and cool a name. Actually the name is the only thing that really bothers me. | 03:13 |
| EspadaV8_L | surely meamo 6 will still be released? | 03:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | microlith, presumably r.m.o will stay up for a while. | 03:13 |
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| EspadaV8_L | or is this happening from today? | 03:14 |
| frals | microlith: *make* them listen ;-) | 03:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | EspadaV8_L, it's going to be fairly close to MeeGo. | 03:14 |
| Anidel | r.m.o probably will be moved to r.m.c ? | 03:14 |
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| microlith | frals: they can ignore you. they have through today. | 03:14 |
| Anidel | the only think I don't actually like is the .com part | 03:14 |
| javispedro | EspadaV8_L: Maemo 6 is going to be released, and dunno whatever way is Nokia going to be marketing it, but I doubt they moved it to Moblin. | 03:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anidel, seems unlikely for legacy support | 03:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | But who knows. | 03:14 |
| javispedro | (due the short timeframe) | 03:14 |
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| Anidel | GeneralAntilles, :) indeed | 03:14 |
| Anidel | hey Seb | 03:14 |
| * frals hits his sheeva, stop lagging damn it | 03:14 | |
| crashanddie | yo | 03:15 |
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| EspadaV8_L | i can kind of see the point behind it, there do target similar devices, so it could help speed up and improve the system | 03:15 |
| mece | javispedro, jaaksi says maemo 6 should be considered a MeeGo release | 03:15 |
| Anidel | we'll be on the same time zone in a few days for a few months | 03:15 |
| javispedro | mece: will it have RPM packages already? I seriously doubt it. | 03:15 |
| javispedro | mece: so it's just a marketing thing. | 03:15 |
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| frals | hehe, wonder if we're gonna see a bunch of "adds rpm-support" commits in ham @ gitorious | 03:16 |
| mece | javispedro, possibly. I have no idea. Do we have any m6 developers here? | 03:16 |
| javispedro | M6 is scheduled for _this year_. If they can rebase and repackage the entire of Maemo in a few months, hats off. | 03:16 |
| mece | javispedro, I was thinking that they've known about this for a while now.. | 03:17 |
| javispedro | mece: "a core subset of developers has known" for a while, it seems (to prevent leaks) | 03:17 |
| ali1234 | at the end of the day linux is linux | 03:17 |
| javispedro | this remembers me... why so many secrets??? | 03:18 |
| mece | ali1234, tru dat | 03:18 |
| javispedro | ali1234: go buy webos phone | 03:18 |
| jacquesdptd | hehe | 03:18 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: there are all sorts of wacky reasons. | 03:18 |
| ali1234 | javispedro: that just proves my point. maemo is not like webos or android - it is built out of mostly standard components | 03:18 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: For example - releasing to community may have SEC implications. | 03:18 |
| mece | javispedro, well big corporate cooperations are secret until everything is sorted and clear (the business part I mean) so that's no surprise at all. | 03:19 |
| ali1234 | plus, everyone loves a good flamewar right? | 03:19 |
| Anidel | going to bed, see you later.. and well.. let's see | 03:19 |
| jacquesdptd | yeah but he was meaning cause of the linux base supposed to be Open :) | 03:19 |
| javispedro | of course! a good flamewar on the d-day | 03:19 |
| Anidel | later | 03:19 |
| mece | rpm vs deb war ftw! | 03:19 |
| jacquesdptd | anyway i'm understanding it | 03:19 |
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| ShadowJK | Just threaten with openembedded/bitbake/etc... | 03:20 |
| jacquesdptd | guys is it possible to install maemo on a normal desktop computer running ubuntu desktop ? | 03:20 |
| SpeedEvil | no. | 03:20 |
| mece | nnnnno | 03:20 |
| javispedro | mnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooo | 03:20 |
| jacquesdptd | ok | 03:20 |
| mece | oops | 03:20 |
| jacquesdptd | sad | 03:20 |
| microlith | ShadowJK: "diaf" is an appropriate response to that :P | 03:20 |
| javispedro | ;) | 03:20 |
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| jacquesdptd | can't dual boot with it ? | 03:20 |
| jacquesdptd | weird | 03:20 |
| cehteh | well ... sdk .. think about it | 03:20 |
| mece | but MeeGo should be possible afaict | 03:20 |
| EspadaV8_L | is maemo moving to prm or moblie to deb? | 03:21 |
| jacquesdptd | i know | 03:21 |
| cehteh | with some efforts it should be possible | 03:21 |
| javispedro | or Mer. | 03:21 |
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| jacquesdptd | i've talk with lbt | 03:21 |
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| jacquesdptd | i'm gonna choose meego for the devices i'm gonna create | 03:21 |
| javispedro | cehteh: it's easy enough. Just point SDK to fullscreen Xorg -- but Maemo sucks at anything other than 800x480 | 03:21 |
| ShadowJK | EspadaV8_L, moblin is rpm. maemo is deb. meego is rpm. | 03:21 |
| jacquesdptd | but for now i'm searching for all kind of os to test them | 03:21 |
| EspadaV8_L | ah, so they'll be using moblin as the base | 03:22 |
| jacquesdptd | i want something smooth with good visual effects running on any plateform | 03:22 |
| jacquesdptd | maemo and meego seems to be that os's i'm searching for | 03:22 |
| ali1234 | jacquesdptd: smooth visuals are entirely down to having working accelerated drivers | 03:22 |
| jacquesdptd | i'm trying to test moblin building some images but that's kinda hard | 03:22 |
| javispedro | you're looking for moblin indeed, if any platform means any x86 platform. | 03:22 |
| ali1234 | the actual OS you run on top of those is pretty much irrelevant | 03:22 |
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| jacquesdptd | ali1234, plus i have nvidia chipset on my devices | 03:22 |
| javispedro | (any SSE3 capable x86 platform, of course) | 03:22 |
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| mece | jacquesdptd, well they did market meego as a os for many different types of devices, so I guess you're in luck there. | 03:23 |
| jacquesdptd | i'm trying moblin | 03:23 |
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| EspadaV8_L | i wonder if this means meego will also be on the nokia 3g booklet in the future | 03:23 |
| jacquesdptd | but same here kinda laggy and i have some problem on it, and theres saddly no support on the channel | 03:23 |
| mece | I really hope nok will come out with a nice tablet. The market is wide open since apple hyped up the market and then delivered the iFail. | 03:24 |
| jacquesdptd | mece, yeah that's what they are saying, we've talked to me about madde | 03:24 |
| ali1234 | well you'd probably have to hack moblin to install the nvidia binary | 03:24 |
| jacquesdptd | that would correspond for a touch device and qt experience with maemo base | 03:24 |
| jacquesdptd | do you guys knows a bit about it before i'm testing it ? | 03:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | EspadaV8_L, let's hope so. | 03:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | EspadaV8_L, boooo Windows 7. | 03:24 |
| mece | aw crap, 3:24. I guess I should be getting to bed. I just came here to see if other people are interested in preserving the maemo brand somehow. | 03:25 |
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| crashanddie | mece: check the mailing lists | 03:25 |
| javispedro | is anyone not interested in that? | 03:25 |
| mece | crashanddie, I've never actually done that. Where do I go? | 03:26 |
| ali1234 | o/ | 03:26 |
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| EspadaV8_L | GeneralAntilles: i think it'd be interesting if they did something like dell, have an arm system on there too running meego that you can just open the lid and be on | 03:26 |
| crashanddie | mece: in my case my inbox, in your case google probably, can't remember the links | 03:26 |
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| EspadaV8_L | and if you need win7 you can do a normal boot and get reduced battery life | 03:26 |
| crashanddie | isn't that what Macos does? | 03:26 |
| crashanddie | I usually just open the lid and it's on | 03:27 |
| ali1234 | i'd rather just have the arm part and use the other 90% of the space for a bigger battery | 03:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, no, its sleep is just less shitty than anybody elses. | 03:27 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: my point exactly, who cares about the implementation as long as the result is good | 03:27 |
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| crashanddie | EspadaV8_L: and why would a chipmaker be interested in providing an extension to built computers? | 03:27 |
| crashanddie | I don't understand why Intel would partner with a ARM-based OS though? | 03:28 |
| javispedro | crashanddie: Embrace Extend Extinguish! ;) | 03:28 |
| crashanddie | I mean, surely Intel can't believe it can gain traction in in-car computing? | 03:28 |
| zash | crashanddie: make it suck, sell more x86 :D | 03:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, netbooks. | 03:29 |
| javispedro | from slashdot, words of wisdom! | 03:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Possibly set-top boxes. | 03:29 |
| EspadaV8_L | crashanddie: they probably have a lot of duplicated work, in which case that make sense | 03:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | Nothing stopping intel from buying arm licenses :) | 03:29 |
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| zash | will we see intel producing arm cpus? | 03:29 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: lol | 03:29 |
| greenfly | probably has more to do with nokia not wanting to deal w/ maemo and focus more on symbian | 03:29 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: I'd like to see that | 03:29 |
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| woglinde | zash they did some time ago | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | strongarm | 03:30 |
| greenfly | now Intel can provide the developers for the OS and Nokia can provide the open source community (it hopes) | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | though they sold that | 03:30 |
| EspadaV8_L | aren't they wanting to ditch symbian? | 03:30 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: "We've spent 30 years developing our own CPUs, but we've finally come to the conclusion that we're too shit at it, and we'll just stick to producing somebody else's designs" | 03:30 |
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| woglinde | speedevil jupp | 03:30 |
| EspadaV8_L | i can't see them wanting to focus on it just now | 03:30 |
| greenfly | EspadaV8_L: dunno, I've seen a ton of announcements about symbian lately | 03:30 |
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| woglinde | after lubook I think | 03:30 |
| woglinde | or lubock | 03:30 |
| cehteh | my bets are still that intel will try to enter the embedded/phone market with some atom like x86 chips | 03:30 |
| woglinde | who cares | 03:30 |
| crashanddie | greenfly: of course not | 03:30 |
| EspadaV8_L | yeah, that's just about it being open sourced, that's not really part of nokia now | 03:31 |
| zgold | SpeedEvil: ah, too many channels | 03:31 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: and people think the N900 sucks in terms of battery life! | 03:31 |
| cehteh | crashanddie: not current atoms of course .. | 03:31 |
| woglinde | allright | 03:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://delivery.acm.org/10.1145/1720000/1716385/p10-furber.html?key1=1716385&key2=1157826621&coll=GUIDE&dl=GUIDE&CFID=15151515&CFTOKEN=6184618 | 03:31 |
| mece | crashanddie, well, people are wrong :) | 03:31 |
| SpeedEvil | interview with aRM founder | 03:31 |
| woglinde | I am going to read further with Thomas covenant and than to bed | 03:32 |
| woglinde | good nite | 03:32 |
| greenfly | I guess I'm unclear, if meego is basically going to be based off moblin, what nokia is providing other than some developers, QT, and and agreement to use meego on "flagship" devices | 03:32 |
| greenfly | other than the community | 03:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | greenfly, the stacks are already pretty damn similar. | 03:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | greenfly, Tracker, phone stuff, etc. will come from Maemo in addition to the similar stuff. | 03:34 |
| greenfly | ahh makes sense. plus I guess fedora /is/ using more ubuntu-like stuff like upstart these days | 03:34 |
| EspadaV8_L | moblin doesn't support 3g, does it? | 03:34 |
| * EspadaV8_L thinks they should rebase to use Gentoo instead | 03:35 | |
| EspadaV8_L | :-D | 03:35 |
| greenfly | heh, that would be great for battery life :) | 03:35 |
| * zgold *chokes* @ EspadaV8_L | 03:35 | |
| * zgold 's comment | 03:35 | |
| EspadaV8_L | lol | 03:35 |
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| EspadaV8_L | "give me an few days, I'm just updating vim" | 03:36 |
| zgold | EspadaV8_L: i can imagine the firmware update process.. 20 days to download/compile the os upgrade | 03:36 |
| mece | EspadaV8_L, some info about what comes from where: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=528564&postcount=355 | 03:36 |
| greenfly | "No, I SWEAR ls runs faster when I compile it myself" | 03:36 |
| zgold | mece: oh boy, tracker from maemo | 03:36 |
| angasule | will it use RPM as heard somewhere? | 03:36 |
| zgold | mece: i cant tell if thats a blessing or curse having used the n900 | 03:36 |
| crashanddie | anyone who keeps trolling about Gentoo gets kicked | 03:36 |
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| angasule | meh, typing without my right index finger is annoying | 03:37 |
| crashanddie | and if you want to discuss MeeGo, please join #meego | 03:37 |
| angasule | crashanddie: ok | 03:37 |
| EspadaV8_L | mece: that seems to make sense | 03:37 |
| mece | zgold, I've not have any problems with tracker. Everyone else is just doing it wrong I guess :D | 03:37 |
| mece | dammit ok. I really have to get to bed. Ta. | 03:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, but what if we want to say offensive things about it? :P | 03:38 |
| zgold | mece: I don't know. I've got about 2000 songs on my device and when I open the media player it literally pegs the CPU for about 2 minutes just downloading data via dbus from tracker | 03:38 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: then here is fine | 03:38 |
| angasule | so what happens to maemo? it'll join the dodo? | 03:38 |
| crashanddie | hang on | 03:38 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 03:38 | |
| *** crashanddie changes topic to "Topic for #maemo: Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | No to MeeGo! Off with their heads | http://www.maemoit.org/extra/lapide.jpg" | 03:39 | |
| greenfly | zgold: I noticed that the first time the index was built, but not after that (at least for the same set of songs) | 03:39 |
| zgold | crashanddie: in all seriousness, why the anti-meego sentiment? (a joke perhaps?) | 03:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | h8t3r | 03:40 |
| zgold | greenfly: Its consistent for me, sadly. Might be something to do that im using ogg files? | 03:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | zgold, because we love Maemo, we love maemo.org and we love our community. | 03:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | zgold, and Nokia and Intel sort of made a backroom deal to kill them all and replace them with a Fisher Price toy. | 03:40 |
| greenfly | zgold: hmm, wonder if you basically reset the tracker db if it'd help | 03:40 |
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| EspadaV8_L | lol, nice image :) | 03:41 |
| zgold | greenfly: is there a tracker command to do that? Something like trackerd --reset ? | 03:41 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, change that, you dont speak for the community | 03:41 |
| zgold | GeneralAntilles: I guess I agree about the backhandedness, but i do think they were well intentioned and good will come of it | 03:41 |
| EspadaV8_L | GeneralAntilles: do you really think it'll change the community? | 03:41 |
| lcuk | you might be a moderator, but thats just not nice | 03:41 |
| greenfly | zgold: there is one, but I don't recall it at the moment | 03:41 |
| EspadaV8_L | i mean, coding apps in Qt/GTK will be the same | 03:42 |
| pupnik_ | actually a toy would sell better than a hacker device | 03:42 |
| EspadaV8_L | the base system is similar | 03:42 |
| EspadaV8_L | the only difference will be packaging the apps | 03:42 |
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| crashanddie | zgold: this whole thing has always been about openness. I remember Ari Jaaski, at the very Maemo Summit explaining how hard it was to convince Nokia execs to embrace openness, but that they finally got there, and that they were enjoying it as much as we were. Where was the openness in this merger? Why were people signed under NDAs before being told about it (which in an Open Source community is like bribing or holding a knife u | 03:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | EspadaV8_L, how can it not? | 03:42 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: damn, did Nokia merge your sense for humour as well? | 03:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, obviously for marketing reasons. | 03:43 |
| * pupnik_ thinks it's time for pizza | 03:43 | |
| *** crashanddie changes topic to "Topic for #maemo: Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | Please join #meego for MeeGo related questions | http://www.maemoit.org/extra/lapide.jpg" | 03:43 | |
| greenfly | eh, I think in a year the community will more or less as it is now--same battered-wife syndrome with Nokia, but still willing to believe it's different this time | 03:43 |
| zgold | crashanddie: I dont know, I think there are probably corporate realities that required the hush hush until now | 03:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | greenfly, :rolleyes: | 03:43 |
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| greenfly | everyone who threatens to leave will still be here, sans a few | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | zgold, I agree 100% | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | zgold, doesn't make it feel less like I've been punched in the stomach. | 03:44 |
| zgold | GeneralAntilles: amen | 03:44 |
| greenfly | everyone else will eventually just get back to working on what they find interesting | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | zgold, the reasons people have trouble with it are primarily emotional. | 03:44 |
| crashanddie | zgold: I feel pretty sick to be honest, and I don't know why I would stay | 03:44 |
| zgold | GeneralAntilles: I generally like the name Maemo better than meego :) | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | zgold, it's worlds better. | 03:44 |
| zgold | crashanddie: why would you leave is a better question i think | 03:44 |
| angasule | zgold: well, meego sounds like the name of a retarded alien | 03:45 |
| EspadaV8_L | nokia make good hardware, they just have issues following it through with the software at time | 03:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | zgold, it's also been built up as a reasonable strong brand | 03:45 |
| EspadaV8_L | s | 03:45 |
| greenfly | GeneralAntilles: oh I agree what they did and the secrecy totally sucks and is a slap in the face to the maemo community | 03:45 |
| zgold | crashanddie: unless you have some really strong affection to debs | 03:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | (at least compared to MeeGo) | 03:45 |
| greenfly | especially considering how much they expect the community to do for them | 03:45 |
| angasule | zgold: I do, and I loathe rpm (I've done both | 03:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | greenfly, that's the fun of Maemo. | 03:45 |
| crashanddie | zgold: I wasn't here because of the OS. I was here because of a combination of the software, hardware, the possibilities, and the community. More than once was working with a handful of people the only reason I stayed here | 03:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | greenfly, if they shipped a platform like the iPhone I wouldn't be interested. | 03:45 |
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| greenfly | heh I wouldn't be around here either, in that case | 03:46 |
| zgold | crashanddie: what about that changed? | 03:46 |
| zgold | crashanddie: Moblin provides a lot of really cool things (Faster boots anybody?) | 03:46 |
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| greenfly | it's the fact that I don't have to jailbreak or violate warranties to get root that brought me here | 03:46 |
| zgold | crashanddie: will only make the device better i guess | 03:46 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, there was a long period you didnt even have an active device! | 03:46 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: indeed | 03:46 |
| crashanddie | zgold: if it wasn't for lcuk, GeneralAntilles, anidel, vdvsx and jaffa, I probably wouldn't be here anymore, and for quite some time. | 03:46 |
| zgold | I dunno, did they fire lcuk ? | 03:47 |
| * lcuk looks | 03:47 | |
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| crashanddie | zgold: I just don't see what it brings | 03:47 |
| lcuk | zgold, can you fwd me that mail | 03:48 |
| crashanddie | zgold: the only thing I see is marketing hype and changing names to remove the blistering that Maemo endured with the N900 | 03:48 |
| zgold | lcuk: I would never :) | 03:48 |
| ShadowJK | what blistering... the thing is still sold out everywhere.. | 03:48 |
| zgold | crashanddie: I think its too early to judge thaat | 03:48 |
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| zgold | crashanddie: unless you know something about the actual state of maemo 6 that I don't | 03:49 |
| crashanddie | zgold: it's an easy escape hatch, rather than fighting through. Intel has its fingers in more pies than a lepper on a cooking course, so uniting forces with them is pretty much a moot point. | 03:49 |
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| lcuk | i see the technical aspects of widening the scope of maemo to be essential | 03:49 |
| ali1234 | crashanddie: intel has a way better reputation with the open source community in general | 03:49 |
| EspadaV8_L | i've not heard any bad press about the n900 | 03:49 |
| crashanddie | well, they do fuck all, so yeah, not hard to have a good reputation if you never make mistakes | 03:49 |
| zgold | EspadaV8_L: I have, usb connectors falling out, battery life, no multi touch | 03:50 |
| EspadaV8_L | unless you count "it's for geeks" bad | 03:50 |
| zgold | EspadaV8_L: nothing worth thinking twice about though | 03:50 |
| ali1234 | crashanddie: they released open source drivers and the full documentation for their graphics cards | 03:50 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: not really 100% true. See powertop forex. | 03:50 |
| sheepbat | well.. I'm personally wondering what i can do to keep the connector from falling out | 03:50 |
| ali1234 | they also made a lot of contributions to xorg to make sure the drivers really worked | 03:50 |
| ali1234 | intel do as much "behind the scenes" stuff as nokia | 03:50 |
| crashanddie | okay, I'm probably wrong on a lot of points | 03:50 |
| zgold | Honestly, i do feel the sucker punch, but I can't think of anything better than *finally* a united force pushing linux | 03:51 |
| ali1234 | what they don't do is build "communities" | 03:51 |
| ali1234 | personally i think nokia and intel is a good compliment | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | sheepbat: don't stress the connector. | 03:51 |
| reillyeon | zgold: Right, we need Maemo running on more than one platform. | 03:51 |
| crashanddie | ali1234: as I explained on the ML, there is no community for Moblin as there is no released device that has it OOTB | 03:51 |
| ali1234 | indeed | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | sheepbat: push it straight in, pull it straight out. Don't tread on it. | 03:51 |
| crashanddie | so there's a few ways we can look at this | 03:51 |
| ali1234 | but what is a community really? | 03:51 |
| sheepbat | yes, SpeedEvil | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | sheepbat: Don't touch the cable when plugged in. - well - don't press on it. | 03:52 |
| crashanddie | either we take it as a godsend, and embrace a small modification to Maemo in order to enable the use of Maemo on more devices | 03:52 |
| greenfly | ali1234: free developers, tech support, and fans? | 03:52 |
| ali1234 | is it developers? is it end users? is it people whining on forums? | 03:52 |
| zgold | reillyeon: would be nice for there to be more than 1 maemo device at the edge too wouldn';t it? | 03:52 |
| sheepbat | if I'm using the phone while plugged in, I'll generally fold it back so that it's touching the back surface | 03:52 |
| luke-jr | ... | 03:52 |
| crashanddie | I just wish they kept Maemo as the name | 03:52 |
| sheepbat | just so the weight of the cable isn't tugging down on it | 03:52 |
| pupnik_ | weeblo | 03:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | zgold, I agree, reducing fragmentation has been something I've been waiting for for a long time. | 03:52 |
| greenfly | well, in other news, I don't feel quite as bad about the iPad name anymore | 03:53 |
| ali1234 | greenfly: plenty of people are out there giving free tech support for intel drivers. they just don't consider themselves part of a "community" of intel users | 03:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | zgold, doesn't take much of the sting away, though. | 03:53 |
| ali1234 | greenfly: they're just part of their distro community | 03:53 |
| reillyeon | zgold: Android has the "give us a phone and we'll bring great software" model. We need that too. | 03:53 |
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| zgold | GeneralAntilles: I think that'll wear off when we have Maemo 6 booting in 3 seconds | 03:53 |
| zgold | GeneralAntilles: thanks to mobilin tech =P | 03:53 |
| greenfly | zgold: how often do you boot your n900? | 03:53 |
| zgold | greenfly: sadly more often than i'de like to admit... | 03:54 |
| crashanddie | zgold: maemo 6 will be meego compatible, nobody said it would be the first instance of meego (what I mean by that, dunno if it'll run on other platforms) | 03:54 |
| greenfly | I rarely boot either my n900 or my laptop | 03:54 |
| luke-jr | greenfly: I have to boot it after I take it out. Battery never lasts a trip outside. -.- | 03:54 |
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| crashanddie | ~greenfly++ | 03:54 |
| zgold | greenfly: your point is valid though, but i think so is mine -- moblin does bring some good quality tech and definitely a lot of good engineers | 03:54 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: then come back home during the week? | 03:54 |
| luke-jr | or rather, battery might last, but BME forces a shutdown -.- | 03:54 |
| greenfly | which sucks because I set up a really cool boot video | 03:54 |
| zgold | greenfly: oh did they ever post the app that makes that easy? | 03:55 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: it lasts 3 hours tops | 03:55 |
| crashanddie | zgold: definitely, not critisising that at all | 03:55 |
| zgold | greenfly: ive been meaning to do that forever | 03:55 |
| reillyeon | greenfly: You have a point, most non-smartphones take ~20 seconds to boot and people live with it. | 03:55 |
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| crashanddie | luke-jr: you're doing it wrong! | 03:55 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: Nokia won't let me do it right :( | 03:55 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | cool | 03:55 |
| greenfly | zgold: dunno, it's really easy, put avi in /usr/share/hildon-welcome/something/ and edit /etc/hildon-welcomed/default.conf to point at it | 03:55 |
| zgold | greenfly: what video did you use? there was a really cool maemo one i saw on a talk.maemo thread that i definitely lost | 03:56 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | talking from moblin2 emulated on ubuntu | 03:56 |
| greenfly | zgold: I took an avi of Hackers I ripped and cut out a few seconds | 03:56 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | seems to work perfectly | 03:56 |
| crashanddie | fuck me, there's a flood going on here in brisbane | 03:56 |
| zgold | greenfly: touche | 03:56 |
| angasule | some people forget shutdown times, my samsung shuts down instantly! I mean, I'm just walking, look at it, and in the blink of an eye, puf! it's off, it's amazing, now I only have to get it to do it only when I want it to... | 03:56 |
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| greenfly | luke-jr: weird. mine lasts generally all day | 03:57 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: also, I got mine off ebay | 03:57 |
| greenfly | or at the very least until I get home (if I'm using it heavily) | 03:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, good thing you're up high in a hotel, eh? | 03:57 |
| greenfly | but I also don't have everything dialed all the way up, well and I don't leave all the conversations plugins on all the time | 03:57 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: aye | 03:58 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: going for a ciggy and maybe filming a bit | 03:58 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | sad to learn there4s no possibilities to run maemo on a pc | 04:08 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | or on virtualisation software | 04:08 |
| microlith | closest you can get is the SDK | 04:09 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | yes | 04:09 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | and building a versionfron it you mean ? | 04:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, and Mer. | 04:10 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | weve been talking to me about mer can you explain me what it is M | 04:12 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | ? | 04:12 |
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| luke-jr | jacquesdptd-mob2: uh, Maemo runs in qemu if you do some magic tricks | 04:13 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | yes like i did for moblin 2 | 04:14 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | but i would prefer to find a way to install it as an os cause virtualised its verry laggy even on a very good computer | 04:15 |
| luke-jr | oh well | 04:15 |
| luke-jr | be glad Maemo is merging into Moblin I guess | 04:15 |
| lcuk | jacquesdptd-mob2, maemo plays best on nokia hw thats the difference | 04:16 |
| luke-jr | Maemo only plays on Nokia hw | 04:16 |
| lcuk | you can run it in xephyr | 04:16 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | im actually hardly talking inempathy installed in moblin 2 fro; virtual box and wrong keyboard | 04:17 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | what a lag ;) | 04:18 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | yes i knoz but then what should i choose for os for a device with sempron and nvidia chipset and resistive touch screen that im building as tablet so virtual keyboard needed and finger travelling | 04:19 |
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| lcuk | i picked up an x41 pen tablet last year | 04:20 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | me in planet to build tablets from comfortable notebooks | 04:22 |
| pupnik_ | is the screen usable for drawing lcuk? dead spots? | 04:22 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i have the designer for the boxes and the usb panel capacitive touch screen add on | 04:22 |
| pupnik_ | i'd be worried about that with a used x41 | 04:22 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | cant wait to receive my touch screen my professional bank is really interested by the project i have to do things good | 04:23 |
| lcuk | pupnik, :( the cable is look in the twisty hinge and it rarely functions as a tablet any more, its just became the couch surfboard pc | 04:23 |
| pupnik_ | is look? | 04:24 |
| lcuk | mmmn is stuck | 04:24 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i wnt to make somthing more than a tablet browser thats im opting for a powerfull device | 04:24 |
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| pupnik_ | ah ok. well getting a decent paint prog on tablet should suffice for me | 04:24 |
| lcuk | i ran liqbase on it for ages | 04:24 |
| pupnik_ | need a quick way to pan image, and select brushes/colors | 04:24 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i want to group notebook / netbook / ipad / tablet-pc with user friendly interface and very beautiful customisable box | 04:25 |
| luke-jr | ... | 04:25 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liqbase_big.JPG pupnik i could dig out the port | 04:25 |
| * luke-jr wonders if LCDs can be compressed | 04:26 | |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | kitchen pc,visio conference, professional laptop, fast media center. mobility | 04:26 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, usually with shattering results | 04:26 |
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| pupnik_ | i have fairly specific ideas for a sketch app, like everyone seems-to :) | 04:27 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | with advantages of usb connectors oppened run low level vga connector for TV video projector | 04:27 |
| pupnik_ | though i see how yours is very good for disgrammatic/text sketching | 04:28 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: no, I'm thinking like N900, but with a button that makes it grow to 2-3 times the physical size... | 04:28 |
| ds3 | <irrational>I WANT USB HOSTS!!!!</irrational> | 04:28 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, just pull another out of your pocket | 04:28 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: squared. | 04:28 |
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| lcuk | luke-jr, it scales ;) | 04:28 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: my pocket doesn't | 04:28 |
| pupnik_ | ds3 http://www.open-pandora.org/ that should be out this year sometime :) | 04:29 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, there was a rollout concept somewhere | 04:29 |
| luke-jr | ds3: hint: they said that 2 years ago | 04:29 |
| ds3 | I don't want a pandora! | 04:29 |
| ds3 | luke-jr: I am well aware of that | 04:29 |
| * vmlemon_ waits for the iPad Shuffle | 04:30 | |
| ds3 | pupnik_: and unless I get paid, I am not working on the USB host feature on the OpenPandora either | 04:30 |
| vmlemon_ | dl | 04:30 |
| pupnik_ | what do you work on? | 04:31 |
| ds3 | me? embedded linux stuff | 04:31 |
| pupnik_ | cool | 04:31 |
| ds3 | the USB hosts on OP Is a potential can of worms | 04:31 |
| ds3 | note how Nokia has not wired it that way in any of their NITs | 04:32 |
| vmlemon_ | Me? I'm just one of those weird Symbian (and occasionally Apple Darwin, Linux, various UNIXes and other platforms) folks, with a passing interest in the whole Maemo/MobLin/MeeGo saga... | 04:32 |
| ds3 | can the N900 easily handle multiple DUN connections via BT? | 04:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | ds3, use PAN instead? | 04:33 |
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| ds3 | GA: okay, can it handle a DUN and a PAN connection at the same time? | 04:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ds3, dunno. | 04:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | ds3, but it's just BlueZ | 04:33 |
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| ds3 | GA: I am more concerned with the UI side... there is a entire spider web of DBUS droppings around and inside BlueZ | 04:34 |
| ds3 | the alternative is for me to build a little box that exports the USB host functionality via BT | 04:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | ds3, there's no UI support for either. | 04:34 |
| ds3 | GA: oh.. so all the DUN/PAN stuff that was in the N800 got chucked? | 04:34 |
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| ds3 | well, not PAN, but the DUN stuff | 04:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, since there's little point for client and host is a lot of work. | 04:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Fairly straightforward to do it without the GUI, though, I hear. | 04:36 |
| ds3 | yes, they are symetrical | 04:36 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | im actually installing madde and configuring it | 04:45 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | you agree i can build a version of maemo from it ? | 04:45 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | well what i wanted to say is that if i can contribute to the project ill do it and wont keep things for me | 04:48 |
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| anamal | is maemo going to die or continue to coexist along meego | 05:11 |
| zgold | Think of it as an evolution, not a death =P | 05:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's merging with Moblin to become MeeGo. | 05:11 |
| anamal | so what will happen to devices with maemo on them (n900) ? | 05:12 |
| anamal | will they update to meego? | 05:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | anamal, currently unknown. | 05:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Seems likely, though. | 05:12 |
| anamal | thats awesome | 05:12 |
| anamal | good going guys | 05:12 |
| MikeJB | afaik, Maemo 6 will basically just be Meego... | 05:14 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i cant get into madde | 05:14 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i just installed it in ubuntu | 05:14 |
| anamal | hm but meego uses rpm, and maemo uses deb | 05:14 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i dont know to get in mad terminal | 05:14 |
| MikeJB | Bah! Not this RPM and DEB thing again. :( | 05:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | MikeJB, sort of. | 05:14 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | madde | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | Incredible what a shitty job nokia did on that announcement. And I always thought our OM speaksmen where on top of spoiling it | 05:15 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | can anyone help me ? | 05:15 |
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| MikeJB | I've used Fedora for years, I've used Debian a few times, and there's no end-user difference. The main difference is "apt-get install foo" instead of "yum install foo" | 05:15 |
| MikeJB | :P | 05:15 |
| MikeJB | It's interesting to see in which ways Debian is more faithful to upstream packages and in which ways Fedora is, though. | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | MikeJB: hmm, tend to agree | 05:15 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | really easy apt-get ans aptitude | 05:16 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | deb are the futur ? | 05:16 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | yes | 05:16 |
| MikeJB | deb is popular because Debian *and* Ubuntu use it. | 05:17 |
| MikeJB | rpm is used by Fedora and openSUSE, but openSUSE has been of declining popularity in recent years ever since Novell's deal with /s/Satan/Microsoft | 05:17 |
| uhsf | could've been worse, we could have merged with android, webos or even samsung bada | 05:17 |
| MikeJB | So deb has more packages, which is a moot point with meego | 05:17 |
| SpeedEvil | .-10 | 05:17 |
| MikeJB | since everything has to be recompiled anyway, or so I've heard. | 05:17 |
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| MikeJB | uhsf: Merging with Android would solve everything, actually. Native Google apps support + *real* Linux framework under it, would be my dream. | 05:18 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | thats it and thats not a problem at all | 05:18 |
| jfm3 | Hello #maemo. I'm trying to tether my laptop to my n900 and I'm dangerously close. I have the bluetooth-dun package on my n900, and have edited the /etc/bluetooth/main.conf to not disable networking. I've got blueman running on my Fedora 12 laptop and it sees the phone and NetworkManager starts trying to do stuff with it, but it ultimately fails saying "... failed to connect ...". Any clues welcome! | 05:18 |
| anamal | ah its been brought up eh | 05:19 |
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| MikeJB | Android is good if you like Google, and has more apps, but Maemo is truer to Linux... | 05:19 |
| uhsf | i disagree i hate google | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: renice -10 :-P | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 05:19 |
| MikeJB | Which makes it tough for a Google-and-Fedora-using person to choose | 05:19 |
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| microlith | MikeJB: Android would only be good as a compatibility layer between X11 and a real Linux environment | 05:19 |
| MikeJB | uhsf: I dislike Google, but I hate Bing and Yahoo more than Google, thus limiting my choices... to Google. | 05:19 |
| MikeJB | Just like voting for a politician, you choose for the *least* evil. | 05:20 |
| microlith | or you run for office yourself | 05:20 |
| uhsf | why would any sane person need millions of apps like android or iphone | 05:20 |
| jfm3 | microlith: you've got the right idea there | 05:20 |
| uhsf | i don't feel limited in apps with maemo | 05:20 |
| MikeJB | uhsf: Actually, Ovi Store kinda doesn't have enough apps | 05:20 |
| microlith | and when you can't get a majority on your own, you merge your parties! | 05:20 |
| MikeJB | Relative to the par. | 05:20 |
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| microlith | ovi store doesn't have anything | 05:21 |
| MikeJB | If there's one big mark against Maemo atm, it's number of apps. | 05:21 |
| microlith | but extras/extras-testing is great | 05:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | MikeJB, stupid number | 05:21 |
| uhsf | the millions android and iphones apps all suck. i prefer my old faithful linux apps anyday | 05:21 |
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| anamal | The first version of MeeGo will be available in the second half of 2010, and Nokia promises a product that builds on the Nokia N900 to begin with. By using the Qt framework, MeeGo will ensure that third-party developers will be available to reach the wide range of product types mentioned above. | 05:21 |
| anamal | oops sorry for the paste | 05:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | MikeJB, have you SEEN the sort of shit they spew onto the app stores? :P | 05:21 |
| MikeJB | GeneralAntilles: Yes. Flashlight apps, etc. | 05:22 |
| MikeJB | The reason I say Maemo doesn't have enough is becaues it's actually lacking some useful things other stores have. | 05:22 |
| uhsf | like what? | 05:22 |
| SpeedEvil | uhsf: like more than one polished game? | 05:22 |
| jfm3 | The android app store is bullshytt. | 05:23 |
| uhsf | i don't game, i didn't buy the n900 for games | 05:23 |
| jfm3 | You can barely find an SSH client in there. | 05:23 |
| wiretapped | anamal: i read "builds on" pessimistically | 05:23 |
| MikeJB | (1) lots of games actually does affect adoptation of a platform, ask all the annoying people who say "Ubuntu is great, but I like to play foo Windows games." | 05:23 |
| jfm3 | Popularity and worthiness have never been correlated in any field of human endeavor. | 05:24 |
| anamal | wiretapped: haha | 05:24 |
| jfm3 | Wish I could tether my damn f12 box though. | 05:24 |
| uhsf | yes human endeavor, that sounds good, i'll look up that word | 05:24 |
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| phy1 | I also looked everywhere for a ssh client | 05:25 |
| MikeJB | (2) Honestly, I'm not the best person to ask, because I don't have an iPhone, a Nexus One, a Palm Pre, a WinMo 7 phone, a Blackberry whatever, and an N900 on hand right now... I left them all upstairs. | 05:25 |
| MikeJB | (Don't ask me about the data bill. :P) | 05:26 |
| * GeneralAntilles hands wiretapped a drink. | 05:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer | jfm3: you seen the wikipage(s)? | 05:26 |
| jfm3 | DocScrutinizer: That's how I got this far. | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | k. So no more helpful info here. Sorry | 05:27 |
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| crashanddie | it's quite interesting to be looking at the tmo threads regarding the elections | 05:27 |
| crashanddie | and more interesting even to see who thanked in them... | 05:28 |
| crashanddie | Except for the usual bunch, not a single Maemo contributor thanked in those threads | 05:28 |
| crashanddie | They don't give a shit about the Community, and now they crya bout MeeGo | 05:28 |
| crashanddie | wankers | 05:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, er, which thread? | 05:29 |
| crashanddie | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44623 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44036 for example | 05:29 |
| zgold | crashanddie: i think its generally excepted that engineers are not always the best communicators | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: exactly. /me wonders how to bother about tmo at all. Unbearable to use that webforum shit | 05:30 |
| crashanddie | oh feck zgold, maemo community isn't made of engineers | 05:30 |
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| zgold | crashanddie: of course not, but many of the open source coders are | 05:30 |
| crashanddie | zgold: this is clicking on a bloody button to thank someone for saying something useful, not requiring any particular skill | 05:30 |
| zgold | crashanddie: i dont think tis the skill. I don't mean to be in any way rude when I say this, but i think its just the caring level | 05:31 |
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| crashanddie | zgold: which is different from what I said, how exactly? :P | 05:31 |
| zgold | crashanddie: my point is i dont think you can blame them for not caring | 05:31 |
| zgold | crashanddie: | 05:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: here (on Konqueror) not even the button shows up ;-P | 05:32 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: get a real browser | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I need to find some glue for my stand magnet | 05:32 |
| zgold | crashanddie: if on one hand you had big threads of coders screaming about wanting a voice, and then in another thread them not voting or thanking, then maybe; but in general i think a silent engineer is not an anomaly | 05:32 |
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| crashanddie | zgold: but they're not coders or engineers, bloody hell | 05:33 |
| crashanddie | zgold: if you believe that the main part of the maemo community are engineers or coders, you are sorely mistaken | 05:33 |
| crashanddie | zgold: the biggest part these days are people who use the device, not developers. | 05:33 |
| crashanddie | the most vocal, anyway | 05:33 |
| crashanddie | zgold: and there's really no need to preach to the choir, especially considering you have no credentials in my book! | 05:34 |
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| zgold | thats fine. I'm just a lurker who decided to chat a lot today, having been stimulated by meego. | 05:35 |
| crashanddie | heh, the meego mailing lists is a bit dodgy... "We have received a request from 127.0.0.1 for subscription" | 05:35 |
| Basstard` | MeEgo | 05:35 |
| crashanddie | oh really, I'm on 127.0.0.1? | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: aye sir! I assume tmo "optimized for microsoft browser" | 05:35 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: works fine here in either firefox or safari | 05:36 |
| crashanddie | lmao http://www.weego.org/ | 05:36 |
| Basstard` | "optimized for microsoft internet" | 05:36 |
| crashanddie | "a [...] project designed for one simple purpose: to get cars off the road." <-- Destruction derby! | 05:36 |
| * GeneralAntilles cleans the crap out of his N900. | 05:37 | |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: qwerty gave a good tool on how to do it | 05:37 |
| microlith | GeneralAntilles: fingerprints? | 05:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | microlith, pocket lint in the battery bay. | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: basically even with that button nothing could make me check that webforum annoyance frequently | 05:37 |
| microlith | ouch | 05:37 |
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| crashanddie | woops | 05:38 |
| crashanddie | anyway, going back to coding | 05:39 |
| crashanddie | HL me if needed | 05:39 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | ok rebooting | 05:41 |
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| whyhi | as soon as i started asking that intel guy on #meego about community and saying intel are holding all the power he never chattedagain since | 05:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | whyhi, he went to dinner. :P | 05:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | whyhi, honestly, they don't know any more than we do. | 05:42 |
| whyhi | nice time for him to go lol | 05:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | whyhi, because the community stuff hasn't been decided yet. | 05:42 |
| whyhi | they must have plan there problem is implementing without losing the support of the other i'm sure | 05:43 |
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| whyhi | i'm just going to ride it out, i'm excite for the future just wish they announced more to put everyone on ease | 05:44 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | ok seems i configured everything ok except its laggy | 05:44 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | and that i need a virtual keyboard | 05:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | whyhi: +1 | 05:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | At least for the community stuff it's being left to us. | 05:46 |
| microlith | too bad none of them are here in Folsom | 05:46 |
| whyhi | we must make sure we elect strong characters in maemo elections to push our ideals forward | 05:47 |
| whyhi | general are u running | 05:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | whyhi, think so. | 05:47 |
| whyhi | you get my vote for sure | 05:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa's running too | 05:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully I can convince a few others to run | 05:48 |
| pupnik_ | things are in development and flux for everyone | 05:49 |
| pupnik_ | incl ppl at nokia and intel | 05:50 |
| whyhi | have you subscribed to youtube meego channel? | 05:50 |
| jfm3 | ... could I need to set up a dhcp server on the n900? | 05:50 |
| pupnik_ | i've only got fuel for a few things. not caring about the rest | 05:51 |
| matthew- | jfm3: yes | 05:51 |
| whyhi | heres channel if anyone as not seen it http://www.youtube.com/user/MeeGoProject ironicly comments not allowed on videos lol | 05:52 |
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| pupnik_ | that isn't necessarily ironic | 05:54 |
| crashanddie | I think neither Nokia nor Intel understand what Open Source means. | 05:54 |
| lpotter | oh? | 05:55 |
| microlith | I think it's more that they don't grasp Free Software (or rather, they're not interested in that aspect.) | 05:56 |
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| lpotter | hmm.. I could have sworn Nokia released Qt under the LGPL | 05:57 |
| microlith | they did | 05:57 |
| * pupnik_ plays with fosdem blisters | 05:58 | |
| whyhi | i think they will get there in the end they have no choice really nokia are left without a proprietary platform so they have to lear fast | 05:58 |
| whyhi | learn | 05:59 |
| lpotter | both symbian and maemo are open source | 05:59 |
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| johnx | m00f | 06:37 |
| johnx | what's new? | 06:37 |
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| lpotter | oohh nuthin much | 06:43 |
| johnx | just (more progress) on the drivers for the N8x0 and that meego thing, huh? :D | 06:45 |
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| GAN900 | johnx, welcome back to the madhouse. | 06:54 |
| johnx | thanks | 06:54 |
| GAN900 | What grand adventures did you get up to? | 06:54 |
| johnx | in summary: workworkwork. raise! woo! moving (next monday) and still waiting for my freakin' pandora :P | 06:55 |
| GAN900 | Sounds fun | 06:55 |
| johnx | played some video games, generally relaxed a bit, spent time in the real world | 06:55 |
| GAN900 | We're just shaking things up here | 06:56 |
| johnx | yup. saw the news. that's why I'm back early | 06:56 |
| GAN900 | don't want anybody to get too comfortable. | 06:56 |
| GAN900 | Very few answers | 06:56 |
| johnx | quite interested in how this will affect that project I was going to return to once I got new hardware to play with | 06:56 |
| johnx | really, really stoked about intel and nokia finally working together | 06:56 |
| johnx | though looking back, all the signs were there for a long time | 06:57 |
| GAN900 | Yeah, RIP Maemo, though. :( | 06:57 |
| johnx | meh. what's in a name? | 06:57 |
| microlith | a lot, apparently | 06:58 |
| microlith | sMeeGo(l) | 06:58 |
| johnx | though I'm not terribly stoked about RPM... | 06:58 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | wow im bulding qt librairy to process started 2 hours ago just for the make | 06:58 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | is it normal ? | 06:59 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | its on a fast computer | 06:59 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i mean quite fast | 06:59 |
| johnx | qt is not small. quite not small | 06:59 |
| aziwoqpd | qt takes a long time to build, especially webkit | 07:00 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | yes | 07:04 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i just past that part | 07:04 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | 'im gonna try to build a maemo desktop version based on qt via madde | 07:05 |
| GAN900 | johnx, a lot | 07:05 |
| GAN900 | johnx, sounds like a Fisher Price product. | 07:06 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | when we are building stuff if i understood well we can share them on mer that's it ? | 07:06 |
| johnx | if the name is the biggest complaint, we're doing pretty darn good I think | 07:06 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | wich name meego ? | 07:06 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | or maemo ? | 07:06 |
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| johnx | meego | 07:07 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i like it a lot | 07:07 |
| johnx | (and yes, the name is stupider than even moblin) | 07:07 |
| GAN900 | johnx, it's not, but it's the one that's got me most depressed. | 07:07 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i dont see why ppl would be complaining | 07:07 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | or they ? | 07:07 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | are | 07:07 |
| johnx | with moblin at least we had a chance of the mascot being the moblin goblin | 07:07 |
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| johnx | dunno. meego sounds pretty silly to my ears | 07:07 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | a question, meego is moblin + maemo that's it ? | 07:08 |
| johnx | yup | 07:08 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | is it made with madde ? | 07:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | jacquesdptd-mob2, part of it is because a lot of us have a lot of attachment with Maemo and maemo.org. | 07:08 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i think it's different and maemo will be continuing as long as ppl work on it | 07:09 |
| anamal | to me maemo sounds the best | 07:09 |
| anamal | name-wise | 07:09 |
| anamal | :D | 07:09 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | if maemo is evolving meego will still be new maemo + moblin | 07:09 |
| johnx | errr, the people who getting paid to work on maemo are now working on meego (AFAICT) | 07:09 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | you think ppl that bought a noka n900 will be able to update there devices to meego then ? | 07:10 |
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| johnx | nope. probably not | 07:10 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | ok | 07:10 |
| johnx | (officially at least) | 07:10 |
| johnx | that was already settled back in october though | 07:10 |
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| johnx | OTOH, maemo5+qt4.6 and meego+qt4.6 are supposed to be pretty compatible (again, AFAIK) | 07:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, actually, current winds seem to be moving in the "Yes, possibly" direction. | 07:11 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | second question, i'm searching for this type of os but for a fast computer transform in a tablet resistive touch screen of 15 inch screen with good nvidia chipset, i would like a finger useable interface smooth plenty of effect | 07:11 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | anyody's got and idea of something i might be not knowing ? | 07:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's much more likely now with MeeGo than it was a week ago, though, so. | 07:11 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | so ? | 07:12 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, if meego for n900 materializes, I'll be pleasantly surprised | 07:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, so, basically, combing through damn near every scrap of information and chatter that's come up today. | 07:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, it sounds like the issue is still down to multitouch and that they're likely still undecided. | 07:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | MeeGo pretty clearly pushes away from the multi issue. | 07:13 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | multitouch will make producers of device like me obliged to buy sensitive screen | 07:13 |
| johnx | if you say so. I think the clearest thing is that companies don't like putting a lot of time into things that don't make them money | 07:14 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | wich are a lot more expensive | 07:14 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | saddly you're right | 07:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, in a short-sighted sense, anyway. | 07:14 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | reducing cost price = reducing sell price | 07:14 |
| johnx | jacquesdptd-mob2, sorry, I was talking to GeneralAntilles. I have no real feeling on multitouch accept that "it makes good demo" | 07:15 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | ok so another question , what would be better on meego between moblin i'm running on ? | 07:15 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, find me a company that's not consistently not short-sighted | 07:16 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | johnx you're right plus there's not usb panel kit sensitive touch add | 07:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, to a certain extent I'd argue Apple is one of them. | 07:16 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | it's only resitive | 07:16 |
| johnx | people will be making apps for meego two years from now. they won't be making them for moblin | 07:16 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i must admit i have an iphone and sensitive screen are really much appreciated to navigage | 07:17 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | and itneract | 07:17 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, yeah. it looks like they've set up a game plan where they plan to do this stuff in advance though | 07:17 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | for a finger use | 07:17 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, also, a big part of apple's business plan includes "making people think we're awesome" | 07:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, it isn't all RDF, however. | 07:18 |
| johnx | and they're not afraid to throw lots of money into R&D | 07:18 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | that's it | 07:18 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | but remember that if you're too scarry to fight with sames weapon that you do not agree that they can be used, you'll get beaten | 07:19 |
| johnx | "we need more expertise on ARM systems in house, so we'll just go out and buy PA Semi" | 07:19 |
| simula | heh | 07:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, that A4 is a damn impressive piece of hardware, though. | 07:20 |
| simula | how much ram does a4 use? | 07:20 |
| johnx | cortex A9 + ??? GPU | 07:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mali | 07:20 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i think there's a big place to make a big website selling everything to make is own touch / mid /net,notbook devices | 07:20 |
| johnx | the impressive part is that the first one shipping an A9 unless I'm quite mistaken | 07:20 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i mean motherboard boxes everything well | 07:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which makes it the first large-scale production ARM SoC to use either. | 07:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | and the Mali | 07:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Which pretty severely kicks ImagTech's ass. | 07:21 |
| johnx | but the PVR architecture is sooo coooool | 07:21 |
| * johnx really wanted it to win out | 07:21 | |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | you dont recommand me to use arm proc on a bigger device like a tablet of 15 inch screen | 07:21 |
| whyhi | A9 the 2GHz chip set? | 07:22 |
| simula | A9 is 2Ghz? | 07:22 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | supposed to multitask and be used on a professional or family way | 07:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think it's 1GHz, actually. | 07:22 |
| whyhi | i was just reading an announcement regarding A9 i think let me find it | 07:23 |
| simula | yeah, dual 1Ghz | 07:23 |
| simula | iirc | 07:23 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | yeah | 07:23 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | whynot, problem will then be for the powerfull 3d chipset | 07:23 |
| johnx | jacquesdptd-mob2, what resolution screen are you intending to drive? what kind of movie/graphics capabilities are you targeting? what kind of CPUs can you use (ie, do you need specific features of the OMAP3 that make it good for small runs)? | 07:23 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | my tablet have to be able to run a compiz like interface | 07:23 |
| johnx | jacquesdptd-mob2, and you're designing the mainboard yourself? | 07:24 |
| * RST38h moos at johnx evilly. Knew the MeeGo announcement will smoke him out to IRC again =) | 07:24 | |
| Proteous | heh | 07:25 |
| johnx | RST38h, heh. alright, you've lured me back in, and all it took was manipulating your employer to play nice with nokia :P | 07:25 |
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| GeneralAntilles | whyhi, 2GHz is just the upper limit for A9. | 07:25 |
| RST38h | johnx: yea, yea...right... | 07:25 |
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| RST38h | johnx: RedHat though... You know I could not have done that... | 07:26 |
| johnx | RST38h, really? I always felt redhat was closer to slackware than debian was (or were you more gentoo than slackware?) | 07:26 |
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| whyhi | heres the article i was reading earlier http://hothardware.com/News/ARM-GlobalFoundries-Detail-NextGeneration-28nm-Partnership/ | 07:28 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | johnnx not at all im working with notebook stuff | 07:29 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | that's why arm won't fit | 07:29 |
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| microlith | quad core A9? Thank you very much. | 07:29 |
| whyhi | still a while away but its a beast | 07:31 |
| johnx | jacquesdptd-mob2, well, then that answers your question. if you're stuck with using a whole board you're basically down to 1) intel stuff or 2) openRD or 3) beagleboard | 07:31 |
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| crashanddie | ~join #meego | 07:37 |
| crashanddie | <infobot> I am not allowed to join #meego. | 07:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, talk to TimRiker. | 07:37 |
| crashanddie | infobot: do you always do what your parents told you? | 07:37 |
| infobot | yes, I always do what your parents told you. | 07:37 |
| whyhi | traitor lol | 07:37 |
| crashanddie | infobot: wanker | 07:37 |
| infobot | [wanker] giving the palm pilot a flight, massaging Kojak's head. Fuck, someone pass me the tissues. | 07:38 |
| crashanddie | lol | 07:38 |
| whyhi | lol | 07:38 |
| johnx | O_ol | 07:39 |
| whyhi | i'm sure i said i was going to bet 2 hours ago finished that vodka i opened only meant to have a glass | 07:39 |
| whyhi | bed | 07:39 |
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| qgil | hi there | 07:39 |
| johnx | whyhi, drink some water first :P | 07:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | morning qgil | 07:39 |
| johnx | hey qgil :) | 07:40 |
| qgil | someone willing to have a chat about MeeGo? | 07:40 |
| crashanddie | hey johnx & qgil | 07:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | qgil, have been all day. | 07:40 |
| qgil | this must be the less noisy time of the "day" at #maemo :) | 07:40 |
| johnx | allo crashanddie | 07:40 |
| crashanddie | qgil: about 300 people in #meego want to | 07:40 |
| * GeneralAntilles is still super confused. | 07:40 | |
| johnx | qgil, love to :) | 07:40 |
| whyhi | yea i will vodka and coke gives lot of acid | 07:40 |
| qgil | ah ok, you're right | 07:40 |
| qgil | I could just go there | 07:40 |
| qgil | so are you all at #meego? | 07:40 |
| johnx | yup | 07:41 |
| crashanddie | pretty much | 07:41 |
| johnx | all of us who matter | 07:41 |
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| crashanddie | johnx: i like your attitude | 07:41 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | iok | 07:42 |
| johnx | that's good. I like my attitude too :) | 07:42 |
| Proteous | hey now | 07:42 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | beagle board are not sufficient i guess | 07:42 |
| RST38h | johnx: Being close to Slackware is not a compliment | 07:42 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | heard enlightnment is made to fit perfectly with beagle board | 07:42 |
| * RST38h is a BSD guy | 07:42 | |
| johnx | RST38h, well, we can both agree on that | 07:42 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: How long have I been screaming that Maemo's biggest issue was the fact that there were too many toolkits, languages and fragmented libraries all over the place? | 07:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, dunno, I tuned it out. :P | 07:52 |
| johnx | crashanddie, at the very least I'm with you in that I agree on intelkia (noktel?) are best of "blessing" one of each "thing" (one toolkit, pkg format, build env, sdk, type of sandwich, etc) | 07:53 |
| crashanddie | aye | 07:53 |
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| crashanddie | With regards to the whole rpm vs deb war, I'd like to say: Opinions are like asshole, everybody's got one. Now that's not a reason to shove yours in my face, is it? | 07:53 |
| johnx | crashanddie++ | 07:54 |
| johnx | big fan of deb, but if that's one of the points nokia had to concede to intel, then it was well worth it | 07:55 |
| uhsf | there isn't too many maemo toolkits. gtk vs. qt is just that perpetual linux wide futile duality. there's not much that can be done about it | 07:55 |
| johnx | this just means meego has all the more momentum as a real first-class desktop that other distros will be supporting | 07:55 |
| RST38h | johnx: RedHat base will be a huge minus though | 07:56 |
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| uhsf | as for pkg, i'm a fan of arch's pacman. way better than any debs, portage or rpm. but who am i to impose my opinion | 07:56 |
| Trizt | it's just a question about taste and there is nothing that will prevent someone to install another package manager and use it :P | 07:58 |
| johnx | RST38h, gnome started in RH-land and debuntu has adopted it quite well. I have a feeling with enough hands working on packaging it's not too big a deal to end up with something meego-based in $your_fav_distro | 07:58 |
| johnx | uhsf, heh. I actually like the OE/opkg system. it's super easy, but I'm not a big fan of building everything from the ground up | 07:59 |
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| johnx | FWIW, a nice intel-person told me they wanted to work together with maemo/nokia almost a year ago and I wrote them off as optimistic :) | 08:01 |
| crashanddie | johnx: when I moved to London, I wanted to get an interview with OpenedHand as they worked on Maemo for Nokia. When I arrived I never even got an interview, as Intel had bought them and frozen all hiring. | 08:02 |
| crashanddie | johnx: this was 2 years ago now | 08:02 |
| RST38h | crash: Ho ho ho | 08:03 |
| johnx | :D | 08:03 |
| crashanddie | A guy in #moblin confirmed to me that indeed, a lot of their expertise was brought over to Moblin | 08:03 |
| johnx | the intel-person I talked to was actually working in the moblin project and visited the mer booth I was running at LinuxFest NorthWest :) | 08:03 |
| crashanddie | johnx: don't say that | 08:03 |
| crashanddie | "northwest" | 08:03 |
| crashanddie | has a pretty bad connotation in Europe | 08:04 |
| crashanddie | Northwest is where lcuk comes from, you see | 08:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Great movie. :P | 08:04 |
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| johnx | http://www.google.com/search?q=linuxfest+northwest | 08:04 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | hem | 08:22 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | seems this guy who's getting me ashamed of being french with this horrible accent he has, has made exactly what i was going to do but thank to him he didn't made everything i was about to make :) | 08:23 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | saddly i can't link the pasteboard | 08:25 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | on virtuabox | 08:25 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i won't be able to past the video | 08:25 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | the video is called on you tube always innovating touchbook - the coolest computer ever!!! | 08:26 |
| RST38h | touchbook, hehe, tell that to Macer | 08:26 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i even don't care about macer | 08:27 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | im so much hesitating with that beagle board | 08:27 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | seems it's the future | 08:27 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | but for now it aint powerfull enought for the interface i want to have, i want to make a very classy perfect device | 08:28 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | but he has some good ideas | 08:28 |
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| johnx | lenovo is doing something touchbook-like as well | 08:30 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | his interface is really horrible, i'm starting from the idea that don't try to use a 3d rendering effect interface if it's even a little little bit laggy | 08:30 |
| RST38h | Lenovo. | 08:30 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i think it's wasting everything | 08:30 |
| * RST38h excuses himself | 08:30 | |
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| johnx | RST38h, :) | 08:30 |
| Stskeeps | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=528589&postcount=606 really illustrates the community is adapting | 08:30 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | better to use a non composite rendering for that kind of stuff | 08:31 |
| Chiku | what will be happend to maemo with meego? | 08:31 |
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| wormsxulla | hello, people. can you see this on the n900? http://imgh.us/Shadok_-_Pluie_3.svg (i'm making tests) | 08:34 |
| wormsxulla | seeing it animated, i mean | 08:35 |
| Chiku | un shadok | 08:35 |
| wormsxulla | oué :p | 08:35 |
| Chiku | no animation firefox 3.6 | 08:35 |
| wormsxulla | argh. about:config: svg.smil.enabled set to true? | 08:36 |
| Chiku | svg.smil.enabled;true | 08:37 |
| Chiku | same | 08:37 |
| Chiku | need to restart firefox? | 08:37 |
| wormsxulla | i don't think so. refreshing should be enough | 08:37 |
| Chiku | pas d'animation | 08:37 |
| wormsxulla | d*mn. this is bad news :-( | 08:37 |
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| wormsxulla | so maemo doesn't support smil? | 08:38 |
| Chiku | I'm not testing on my nokia | 08:38 |
| Chiku | on my desktop computer | 08:38 |
| wormsxulla | meh | 08:38 |
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| wormsxulla | *then* your desktop has no excuse! (and i don't understand) | 08:39 |
| wormsxulla | s/men/meh | 08:39 |
| wormsxulla | maybe relaunch firefox (but i don't think this should be necessary) | 08:39 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | there's mer place in france ? | 08:40 |
| Chiku | hum animation is text appartition? | 08:41 |
| wormsxulla | Chiku: no, there is a cloud coming from the right, rain falling, etc. you don't see anything? | 08:41 |
| Chiku | on my nokia I see text displayed later | 08:41 |
| wormsxulla | yes, the bottom text comes at the end | 08:41 |
| wormsxulla | Chiku: what OS are you on? | 08:42 |
| Chiku | text in on top of pict | 08:42 |
| Chiku | PR1.1 | 08:42 |
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| Chiku | OS on desktop? | 08:42 |
| wormsxulla | that text is always there, it is not animated | 08:42 |
| wormsxulla | pr1.1 ? | 08:42 |
| Chiku | maemo 5 | 08:42 |
| wormsxulla | (pardon my french :p ) | 08:42 |
| Chiku | sur mon pc c'est seven 64 | 08:42 |
| wormsxulla | AHAHAHAH | 08:43 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | ya ds francais cool | 08:43 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i need french people to work with me | 08:43 |
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| Chiku | tu veux que je teste sur un freebsd et ubuntu ou debian ? j'ai ca aussi | 08:43 |
| Chiku | mais la flemme de les allumer | 08:43 |
| Trizt | it's not animated in ff3.6 either, maybe you did forget to save it properly? | 08:43 |
| wormsxulla | Chiku: oui, please. and actually i still don't get what your desktop is using | 08:44 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | we're talking aout an animated .sg ? | 08:44 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | .svg ? | 08:44 |
| wormsxulla | Trizt: it's working for others :-( | 08:44 |
| wormsxulla | jacquesdptd-mob2: yes | 08:44 |
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| Trizt | in chromium it seems to anim, not ff | 08:44 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | made with inkscape ? | 08:44 |
| Chiku | breakfast,... I will be late | 08:44 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | cause that's a known issue | 08:45 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | btw not sure ff is supporting animated .svg | 08:45 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | chrome is | 08:45 |
| wormsxulla | jacquesdptd-mob2: no, with svg-edit, and handcoding with smil | 08:45 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | oki | 08:45 |
| wormsxulla | Trizt: thanks (for the chromium test) | 08:45 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | should be cheked with the new safari | 08:46 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | gimme back the adress | 08:46 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i must have a mac somewhere | 08:46 |
| wormsxulla | http://imgh.us/Shadok_-_Pluie_3.svg | 08:46 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | ok just waiting my iphone to finish erasing the zero space | 08:46 |
| Trizt | wormsxulla; opera 10 works too | 08:46 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | in 2 minutes | 08:46 |
| wormsxulla | Trizt: :) | 08:47 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | opera is supporting it | 08:47 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | in 2 minutes i tell you if it works in safari | 08:47 |
| Trizt | wormsxulla; with konqueror4 you will see all the parts displayed at once, no anim | 08:47 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | gonna test in konkeror during this time | 08:47 |
| wormsxulla | Trizt: hehe | 08:47 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | oh ok | 08:47 |
| wormsxulla | konqueror is on ubuntu? | 08:48 |
| Trizt | wormsxulla; seamonkey 1 you get the first frame and there I did run out of browsers on my machine | 08:48 |
| wormsxulla | Trizt: yeah, seamonkey 1.x doesn't support smil at all | 08:48 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | kuuntu yes | 08:48 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | its prolly everywhere on a linux based systeme | 08:48 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | system | 08:49 |
| wormsxulla | you'd need sm2.0.2 and i'm not even sure it supports smil (sm is my browser of choice, though) | 08:49 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | just need to install kde and konqueror | 08:49 |
| luke-jr | eh | 08:49 |
| luke-jr | why would a browser support SMIL? | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=528791&postcount=425 <- semi-announcement of the MBX driver availability | 08:49 |
| wormsxulla | luke-jr: because it's implemented after svg, and firefox's implementation isn't even complete | 08:50 |
| luke-jr | as in, 12 year old SMIL?? | 08:50 |
| wormsxulla | so the animation can't be seen at all on a n900? :-( | 08:51 |
| wormsxulla | luke-jr: yup! | 08:51 |
| luke-jr | ... | 08:51 |
| Chiku | Stskeeps, what will happend to maemo with meego ? | 08:51 |
| wormsxulla | but you know what they say: "it's the future!" (and it's "easy" to code, compared to javascript) | 08:51 |
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| Chiku | moblin and maemo will drop fro meego? | 08:52 |
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| Chiku | does what merging mean? | 08:52 |
| Stskeeps | Chiku: all good questions | 08:53 |
| doc|home | meego = we go? :) | 08:54 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | ok usb bootable moblin created and started | 08:54 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | but except the grub boot menu it doesnt seems to be starting | 08:54 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | :) | 08:54 |
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| wormsxulla | jacquesdptd-mob2: is it funny? ;) | 08:58 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | really yes | 09:00 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i'm doing 10 stuff at a time | 09:00 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | this zero erasing stuff for iphone is a good good thing it's really faster now and it just finished | 09:01 |
| Chiku | jacques a dit : coucher | 09:01 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | for themoblin i'm gonna have to change tboot command not a problem | 09:01 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | hehe | 09:01 |
| Chiku | moblin on n900 ? | 09:01 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | ok testing your page on safari | 09:01 |
| Chiku | do you know the "jacques a dit" ? | 09:02 |
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| uhsf | i know, i'm french | 09:03 |
| Chiku | il y a trop de francais ici | 09:03 |
| uhsf | what's the english name for that game i don't remember? | 09:03 |
| Chiku | simons says | 09:04 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | workign | 09:04 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | perfectly | 09:04 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | that's great, i see it on my iphone, gonna use those animated.svg | 09:04 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | except it's a bit laggy it can replace animation flash or java for iphone based websites | 09:05 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | good news | 09:05 |
| potter | Does anyone know the classic rock song/artist that's at the very end of this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFgLvT-ghrQ | 09:05 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | nope | 09:07 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | not hearing enought | 09:07 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | was happy to see youtube perfectly working on moblin 2 on virtuablbox on ubuntu | 09:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | YouTube HTML5 beta is nice. | 09:10 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | yeeeha | 09:11 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i was just totally right | 09:11 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i made moblin working on usb live boot on a sempron 2000 and nvidia chipset and it works perfectly | 09:11 |
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| kamal | hi | 09:15 |
| kamal | I am new to Maemo and Linux environment | 09:15 |
| ensi | hi | 09:15 |
| johnx | welcome kamal :) | 09:15 |
| kamal | I would like to know how to install 3rd party application on N900 | 09:16 |
| kamal | without using GPRS or Wireless connection | 09:16 |
| ensi | is there a .deb built for N900? | 09:16 |
| ensi | if you have the .deb | 09:16 |
| ensi | sudo gainroot | 09:16 |
| ensi | dpkg -i foobar.dev | 09:16 |
| kamal | no I don't have | 09:17 |
| ensi | but then again if you havent enabled R&D mode that wont work | 09:17 |
| ensi | and then i cant help :) | 09:17 |
| kamal | how do I get itwhat is R&D mode and where can I find more info on it | 09:17 |
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| ml-mobile | why can you not use wireless? | 09:17 |
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| ensi | kamal: install rootsh | 09:18 |
| kamal | I don't have access to one now. I was wondering is there any way we can do it as we do for symbian phones | 09:18 |
| kamal | by transfering the sis file | 09:18 |
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| kamal | and then installing it | 09:18 |
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| ensi | kamal: yes but you need the .deb | 09:19 |
| ensi | like i said before | 09:19 |
| ml-mobile | you can, but I recommend against it | 09:19 |
| johnx | on Maemo 5 (the N900's OS) the application manager counts on being able to automatically install any other packages that a program "depends" on | 09:19 |
| johnx | so, even if you get the ".deb" file for a specific program, you have to solve the "dependencies" yourself and get all of those .deb files as well | 09:20 |
| qgil | last question if you ahve a new topic? then I must really go onto other meeGo things | 09:21 |
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| ensi | hmm, i have an app that i want started on boot automatically, i guess I just make a script in /etc/rc2.d ? | 09:21 |
| qgil | silence, so not too bad :) | 09:21 |
| johnx | qgil, thanks for taking the time to brave the waters and answer questions :) | 09:22 |
| Stskeeps | silence about meego in #maemo? ;) | 09:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Did they push PR1.1.1? | 09:23 |
| qgil | ooooops | 09:23 |
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| kamal | say if I want to download the deb file for Capsule mentioned in this link http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/graphics/ How do I get it? | 09:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Likely a staggered global rollout again if so, so I'm in a position to know last. | 09:24 |
| kamal | when I download I get an .install file | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i don't see anything | 09:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, Talk must just be seeing things again. | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: it's the meego socialist cabal putting things in our water | 09:25 |
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| johnx | kamal, you open the .install in a text editor, and manually go through the "repository" it mentions to find your files | 09:25 |
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| konttori_work | so, did everybody go apeshit about yesterdays announcement? | 09:26 |
| tybollt | yes, yes we did | 09:26 |
| tybollt | we've gone ape AND monkeyshit | 09:26 |
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| Stskeeps | konttori_work: you have no idea how many discussions about rpm vs deb people have had.. | 09:26 |
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| Stskeeps | :P | 09:27 |
| thresh | s/discussions/trolls/ | 09:27 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | starting an install | 09:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori_work, I'm still apeshit. | 09:27 |
| tybollt | seriously though, I think a lot of FUD right now and the comming week is inevitable seeing as how Nokia is kind of dodging questions right now. | 09:27 |
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| Stskeeps | tybollt: otoh, nokia doesn't have all the answers, the plans are out of their hands atm | 09:27 |
| Stskeeps | and has to be weighed with well, meego community | 09:28 |
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| tybollt | Stskeeps: Not talking about Meego per se. Meego to mee is an interesting project in the future. But as a device owner I have some amount of money invested and so I'm left speculating about the fate of it. | 09:29 |
| Stskeeps | tybollt: i will personally try to help get meego on n900 if it doesn't happen from vendor side. | 09:29 |
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| tybollt | Stskeeps: sure, thanks, lovely. | 09:29 |
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| tybollt | Stskeeps: I still think if Ari would've announced say "don't worry there will still be support for N900 phones" that'd comforted a fair few who right now may be a bit worried. | 09:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | tybollt, problem is, that, too, seems to be up in the air. | 09:31 |
| tybollt | instead people get edgy and go on here and other places and get foul mouthed :( | 09:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Indeed | 09:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Nokia really just needs to decide either way. | 09:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | (preferably the sane and justifiable one, but) | 09:32 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | redimensionning wow i m scared | 09:32 |
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| kejen | hi, does anyone know where the dictionary lives? Wanted to take some words out | 09:33 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | am i going to loose my ubuntu installation (i dont care its a test machine) | 09:33 |
| Stskeeps | kejen: in older versions you could tap-and-hold and remove | 09:34 |
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| ShadowJK | I just woke up. I was having a nightmare; people were still whining about packaging. | 09:35 |
| * ShadowJK sighs and goes back to bed | 09:35 | |
| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: they still do | 09:35 |
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| kejen | only shows me cut, copy, and paste. Gotta be a text file somewhere i would think. Kinda like browser_typed_urls | 09:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Night folks | 09:37 |
| konttori_work | Stskeeps, I heard about that also yesterday for the first time. I can imagine the comments. | 09:39 |
| mece | hello. What's this new update people are talking about? | 09:39 |
| konttori_work | fact is that n900 will have really great lifetime support. | 09:39 |
| mece | konttori_work, that's nice to hear :) | 09:40 |
| konttori_work | it will come with qt4.6, (and later full web runtime support), so you should be able to develop content on n900 that will work the same on MeeGo Devices, of course, packaging will have the be done again, but that's life. | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | konttori_work: i'm really astonished noone picked up on the fact DUI works on N900 | 09:40 |
| Netrum | :D | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | then again, all the announcements came in a bundle | 09:41 |
| konttori_work | yes, that's also interesting point. | 09:41 |
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| ShadowJK | dui? | 09:41 |
| Stskeeps | maemo6 UI framework | 09:41 |
| Stskeeps | konttori_work: random question, there hasn't been a Maemo5 update today, right? | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | konttori_work: people are seeing things but we think it's not true | 09:42 |
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| konttori_work | Stskeeps, not sure... there should be one this week, but I don't know the date. | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | ah, PR1.1.1 | 09:43 |
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| mece | today? | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | seems so, it's on nokia_N900.php | 09:43 |
| * Netrum checking | 09:43 | |
| mece | nothing here tho.. | 09:44 |
| itdock | woot | 09:44 |
| itdock | updating to new maemo | 09:44 |
| thresh | not for me :( | 09:44 |
| itdock | hehe | 09:45 |
| itdock | good that i stayed up so early | 09:45 |
| itdock | 2:45 am here | 09:45 |
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| itdock | it says restart to complete installation | 09:45 |
| itdock | oookay | 09:45 |
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| itdock | mm need my usb cable | 09:46 |
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| SouBE | I'm excited about MeeGo. I hope they make all MeeGo programs portable to all MeeGo platform, even if vendors use different front end UIs | 09:48 |
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| SouBE | that would suck if apps became desktop UI spesific | 09:49 |
| X-Fade | SouBE: Well, that is not possible anyway. | 09:50 |
| X-Fade | SouBE: A small screen on a phone is so different from a netbook etc. | 09:50 |
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| X-Fade | SouBE: Just doesn't make sense to have it the same. | 09:50 |
| thresh | is extras-devel still broken? | 09:50 |
| * itdock is drunk, hopes he doesn't break his n900 with this update | 09:51 | |
| Netrum | its doesnt show upp on my phone yet, nor on nsu. not sure if it should even show upp in nsu.. (i hate asking questions...) | 09:51 |
| X-Fade | thresh: Should not? What was broken? | 09:51 |
| thresh | yeah, it still is. | 09:51 |
| thresh | W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz Hash Sum mismatch | 09:51 |
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| X-Fade | thresh: Doesn't do that for me. | 09:52 |
| thresh | it does from Russia, it seems. I'm not the only one. | 09:52 |
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| X-Fade | thresh: The origin doesn't have that problem, so it must be in the caching network. | 09:53 |
| adeus | yes | 09:53 |
| thresh | yeah, have that for week already? | 09:53 |
| adeus | http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4952791&postcount=10 | 09:53 |
| adeus | that has worked for me when I have had it | 09:53 |
| adeus | no guarantees | 09:53 |
| thresh | no, i'd prefer that fixed | 09:53 |
| thresh | than hacking around | 09:54 |
| X-Fade | thresh: Really? That is weird. | 09:54 |
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| thresh | X-Fade: A-ha. what should I file a bug against? | 09:54 |
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| X-Fade | thresh: When I test from a few countries I don't have that problem. | 09:55 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | boring vga=current | 09:55 |
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| thresh | I do, from Moscow. A friend of mine from Saint Petersburg has the same problem. | 09:55 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | a chance i can run lowlevel 3 | 09:55 |
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| thresh | X-Fade: and i have this on different ISPs, so it couldnt be a network caching problem | 09:56 |
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| adeus | unless they actually use the same cache | 09:56 |
| thresh | i meant squid or something | 09:56 |
| X-Fade | thresh: I will request an akamai flush, let's see if that fixes it. | 09:56 |
| thresh | X-Fade: thanks! | 09:56 |
| X-Fade | thresh: Can you show me the http headers of the fetch? | 09:57 |
| X-Fade | thresh: wget -S --delete-after http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz | 09:57 |
| X-Fade | thresh: In a pastebin ;) | 09:58 |
| thresh | X-Fade: sure, http://pastebin.ca/1798137 | 09:58 |
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| X-Fade | thresh: I see exactly the same and it works for me? | 09:59 |
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| thresh | well, how does apt check the hash sum? | 10:02 |
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| thresh | my md5 sum of Packages.gz is b42efbc2b291308be80d1eae5cc9dd1b | 10:03 |
| X-Fade | thresh: Release file | 10:03 |
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| thresh | hmm, it matches the one in Releae :/ | 10:04 |
| thresh | Release | 10:04 |
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| X-Fade | thresh: Uhm.. that is even weirder :) | 10:05 |
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| SouBE | I had in Helsinki hash sum mismatch maybe a week back in time, but it's gone now | 10:08 |
| thresh | X-Fade: hmmm, manually removing all apt lists seems to have fixed the issue | 10:08 |
| thresh | debian's apt is beyond me | 10:08 |
| adeus | so you have no repositories now? :) | 10:09 |
| thresh | no, but I'm hitting https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8702 now :-))) | 10:09 |
| povbot` | Bug 8702: GPG error when updating Extras from repository.maemo.org | 10:09 |
| SouBE | just remember to reboot you device often enough :P | 10:10 |
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| SouBE | I had strange hardware errors in kernel log. reboot helped | 10:10 |
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| X-Fade | thresh: I have found the issue in the caching network. | 10:21 |
| thresh | X-Fade: nice, so it wasnt a local misconfiguration then? | 10:22 |
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| X-Fade | thresh: No, it is because of the cache duration on the mirrors. | 10:22 |
| thresh | X-Fade: maybe you also know a solution for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8702 i'm experiencing now? :-) | 10:22 |
| povbot` | Bug 8702: GPG error when updating Extras from repository.maemo.org | 10:22 |
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| X-Fade | thresh: They are caching for 30 minutes, but the start time is not synchronized. | 10:22 |
| X-Fade | thresh: So there is a race condition there. | 10:22 |
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| hrw|n900 | hi | 10:23 |
| hrw|n900 | did nokia told anything about meego for n900? I am on gprs so did not read any tmo talks | 10:24 |
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| MiXu- | Nope | 10:24 |
| hrw|n900 | like I thoug | 10:24 |
| hrw|n900 | ght | 10:24 |
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| hrw|n900 | brb | 10:26 |
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| hrw|n900 | re | 10:26 |
| X-Fade | thresh: By waiting max an hour this should be fixed once an for all. | 10:26 |
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| X-Fade | thresh: I have changed the config, but you need to wait until your local edge server times out. | 10:27 |
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| kejen | even though qt is going to be the main ui for future maemo/meego...gtk apps can still be ran correct? | 10:28 |
| X-Fade | kejen: gtk can always be installed. No matter what. | 10:28 |
| X-Fade | kejen: It might not look as native, but that is just theming. | 10:28 |
| thresh | X-Fade: alright. | 10:29 |
| kejen | nice, would hate to lose pidgin | 10:29 |
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| itdock | piding seems to be a battery hog to me | 10:30 |
| X-Fade | I see no need for pidgin now we have the contacts/conversation plugins. But yeah, you could run it. | 10:30 |
| itdock | wish there was a reconnect now button on contacts/convs | 10:31 |
| kejen | which plugins? | 10:32 |
| X-Fade | kejen: What networks do you use? | 10:32 |
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| johnx | X-Fade, on n900, I'd have to agree. until the conversations UI is open though, pidgin (or empathy) will probably be necessary on meego-based devices from comapnies other than nokia | 10:32 |
| kejen | jabber and need to be able to join chats is my only concern | 10:32 |
| X-Fade | kejen: Supported by default. | 10:33 |
| X-Fade | johnx: It is good enough for me now, but your needs might be different. | 10:34 |
| johnx | right now, it's good enough for me too ;) | 10:34 |
| johnx | just saying, there is still a reason for pidgin-hildon to exist | 10:34 |
| X-Fade | johnx: It works and doesn't eat battery. Fine by me :) | 10:34 |
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| kejen | yeah, got onto jabber conversation out of the box. But didnt see how to join chats. I will play with it in the morning | 10:36 |
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| thresh | X-Fade: mmm seems to have fixed 8702 as well :-) | 10:37 |
| thresh | X-Fade: thank you! | 10:37 |
| X-Fade | thresh: that was a race condition between Release and Release.gpg | 10:37 |
| X-Fade | thresh: In the caching network. | 10:37 |
| thresh | why oh why it is always me | 10:38 |
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| X-Fade | thresh: You might actually be 2 cache layers away. | 10:38 |
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| ensi | i add this script to /etc/event.d/ | 10:46 |
| ensi | http://pastebin.com/d67dfd1c9 | 10:46 |
| ensi | but why the hell the application isn't started? | 10:46 |
| ensi | (on reboot) | 10:46 |
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| ensi | it does try to connect to xserver, but shouldnt that be running at that point | 10:47 |
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| ShadowJK | wtf | 10:49 |
| ShadowJK | my n900 hung, I pulled battery and on reboot cellular and wifi doesn't work | 10:49 |
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| * itdock is restoring apps after nokia software updater on n900 | 10:51 | |
| itdock | 4 am | 10:51 |
| itdock | don't want to sleep | 10:51 |
| itdock | :P | 10:51 |
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| ShadowJK | not enough patiene to wait for ssu? | 10:52 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:52 |
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| itdock | couldn't OTA, don't feel like sorting out my extras-devel stuff | 10:52 |
| tybollt | sorry but I've had it w/ meego astroturfing for now :) | 10:52 |
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| itdock | lol | 10:55 |
| mece | tybollt, MeeGo? this is MAEMO!! (*300) | 10:57 |
| johnx | tybollt, eh. you missed my reply. believe me, I'm the last one to fall on Intel's side, but if meego fails it won't be related to closed source drivers ;) | 10:58 |
| tybollt | mece: hence why I left #meego ;) | 10:58 |
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| lardman | onion: ping | 11:01 |
| lardman | and morning all | 11:01 |
| mece | lardman, http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27978 | 11:02 |
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| itdock | lol | 11:03 |
| lardman | :) | 11:04 |
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| lardman | so Qt'ers, is there a delegate that will render images in a table? | 11:05 |
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| lardman | and not just a decoration icon to go along with some text (unless said icon can be made much larger than the text) | 11:06 |
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| rlinfati | 2010-2 firmware? ¿? | 11:12 |
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| Corsac | one good thing about that meego stuff is that it may mean that scratchbox will be dropped altogether | 11:13 |
| lardman | yeah, but to be replaced by what? | 11:14 |
| tybollt | rlinfati: ??? | 11:14 |
| X-Fade | lardman: OBS :) | 11:14 |
| * lardman googles that | 11:14 | |
| X-Fade | lardman: And developing inside the OS itself. | 11:14 |
| thresh | rpm ftw | 11:14 |
| lardman | ah right | 11:14 |
| tybollt | rpm ftl!1111 | 11:14 |
| alterego | Yeah, hopefully there'll be qemu images maybe. | 11:15 |
| mece | this is maemo | 11:15 |
| lardman | that won't handle specific devicisms tho | 11:15 |
| * mece is just sayin' | 11:15 | |
| Lantizia | Is there a way Maemo can continue along side Meego? | 11:15 |
| Corsac | well, developing inside the OS is kind-of hard when you want to test hw features | 11:15 |
| lardman | ah ok, still qemu, ok | 11:15 |
| X-Fade | alterego: Yeah, that would be good. | 11:15 |
| alterego | lardman: well, neither does scratchbox ;) | 11:15 |
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| Lantizia | Since I don't really care about a MeeGo core | 11:15 |
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| mece | Lantizia, I guess N900 will still run maemo | 11:15 |
| alterego | I'm hoping for qemu images, ia32 and arm for the maemo/meego instances. | 11:15 |
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| Lantizia | mece: I already have that - but I don't want work on Maemo to stop | 11:16 |
| Corsac | ia32 is dead! | 11:17 |
| Lantizia | MeeGo is not a continuation of Maemo... it is Moblin with Qt... that is all | 11:17 |
| tybollt | ia64 ftw!1111 | 11:17 |
| Corsac | hem | 11:17 |
| tybollt | meh | 11:17 |
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| Corsac | atom handles perfectly fine x86_64 | 11:17 |
| tybollt | mece: not if Stskeeps has anything to say about it... | 11:17 |
| tybollt | not the early atoms | 11:18 |
| mece | tybollt, Stskeeps is bringing meego to N900? | 11:18 |
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| Stskeeps | mece: if noone else is, i would certainly help out | 11:18 |
| tybollt | mece: he said he'd give it his best shot... a brave endeavour indeed. | 11:18 |
| mece | man I hate that name. MeeGo. Sounds like Microsoft meets Apple. | 11:18 |
| mece | Stskeeps, I definately want it. | 11:18 |
| alterego | mece: really? I thought it sounded like Microsoft meets Google. | 11:19 |
| alterego | Are we going to have a Go language implementation on MeeGo ^.^ | 11:19 |
| mece | alterego, lol.. how about apple meets google? | 11:19 |
| mece | lol | 11:19 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | got it all working well great | 11:21 |
| mece | I'm very positive about MeeGo, It's just that I really like the Maemo maemo and really don't like the MeeGo name | 11:21 |
| mece | Jacquesdptd-mob2, what is working great? | 11:21 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | dont need meego ubuntu-moblin-remix is better for a real laptop transformed to tablet | 11:22 |
| mece | s/maemo/name | 11:22 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | moblin | 11:22 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | except maemo is maybe running faster so meego may be faster than ubuntu-moblin-remix | 11:23 |
| mece | I'm guessing the ubuntu-moblin-remix wont work on phones.. | 11:24 |
| mece | anyone got PR1.1.1 from HAM btw? | 11:24 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | yeah sure i notificate it was better for my touchbook , a real laptop transform to tablet | 11:24 |
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| kejen | yeah, meego is a horrible name | 11:26 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i think i'm gonna install a basic kubuntu + compiz solution that will run virtually the moblin ui on one of the cube face and then i'll have to find 2 other UI for the other 2 faces restings | 11:26 |
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| kejen | sounds like some car or bike for a little kid | 11:26 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | and i'll have the best reason of choosing fast hardware even if the device is bigger | 11:26 |
| ShadowJK | mece: considering there's a guy running fedora on n900... | 11:26 |
| mece | I really hope MeeGo will deliver on the multiple hardware front. This would be a good time to launch a nice big Nokia Tablet since Apple's iPad hyped up the market and failed to deliver. | 11:27 |
| mece | ShadowJK, is it a phone? | 11:27 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | that said i can't be waiting to see devices as small as iphones running meego as smooth as iphone runs osx mobile | 11:27 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | advantages of meego are simple compared to iphone : multitasking user friendly, flash ?, battery time maybe ? and open source and what seems to be a good community | 11:29 |
| mece | ShadowJK, I mean can you make phonecalls with fedora? | 11:30 |
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| itdock | i love my n900 but wish it was 1/2 as thick | 11:31 |
| itdock | perhaps a bit bigger screen | 11:31 |
| itdock | :) | 11:31 |
| ShadowJK | mece: he said he was close :) | 11:32 |
| nid0 | wish mine was e90-sized with matching keyboard :( | 11:32 |
| mece | ShadowJK, cool. Very! | 11:32 |
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| * lbt_ wishes it had a berillium crystal too | 11:32 | |
| itdock | e90 is too big | 11:32 |
| mece | ShadowJK, well I guess it would be easiert to get MeeGo on N900 then fedora :) | 11:32 |
| itdock | i don't have a purse to put it in | 11:32 |
| nid0 | e90's perfectly pocketable | 11:32 |
| itdock | if you're a giant. | 11:33 |
| nid0 | im a whopping 5 foot 8 | 11:33 |
| itdock | :P | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | mece: fedora is on n900 already | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | mece: jebba ported | 11:33 |
| ShadowJK | e90 is like a SUV. It does most things badly, but it's expensive, looks big and badass, and automatically makes your penis bigger | 11:34 |
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| thresh | so it's worth buying | 11:34 |
| itdock | is that a phone in your pocket or are you just happy to see me? | 11:34 |
| nid0 | in fairness, it only really does most things not-so-well because it runs symbian, the hardware and particularly the keyboard are fantastic | 11:34 |
| mece | Stskeeps, yeah, I just meant that if fedora is already there, meego should be easy, even if nok doesn't do it themselves. | 11:35 |
| Shapeshifter | so i dont get what i have to do so that the location widget or de ovi maps app follow my current position. i just want a dot moving on the map.... | 11:35 |
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| ShadowJK | well it's N810-era hardware too | 11:35 |
| Shapeshifter | im on the train right now and the location thing shows my position but whenthe train moves nothing happens on the map | 11:35 |
| ShadowJK | You've got no gps signal probably | 11:36 |
| ShadowJK | (and ovi maps gives up after 30 secs) | 11:36 |
| mece | hey I actually have a programming issue, perhaps someone can help me with this. | 11:37 |
| tybollt | well | 11:37 |
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| tybollt | w/ meego nokia bought out of needing to ever give us proper ovi (maps, calendar, addy book you name it) ever I suppose =) | 11:37 |
| itdock | nah i think nokia will still do it | 11:37 |
| itdock | they have to | 11:37 |
| lardman | I think companies will still need to add value with their own apps | 11:38 |
| tybollt | "they have to"... | 11:38 |
| itdock | plus they spent billions to buy navteq, they better put it to good use | 11:38 |
| ShadowJK | what do you mean proper ovi? | 11:38 |
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| lardman | anyway, have we got new Ovi Maps yet, just out of interest? | 11:38 |
| itdock | not yet | 11:38 |
| tybollt | ovi maps, ove calendar, ovi you-name-it =) | 11:38 |
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| itdock | next week one hopes? | 11:38 |
| lardman | any reason for that hope? | 11:39 |
| mece | in python, I'm debugging my widget, and I need error output, so I set sys.stderr = open('asdf/asdf/error.log', 'a') | 11:39 |
| mece | but how do I close it? | 11:39 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | a friend of mine has the n900 and i found it rocking | 11:39 |
| itdock | no particular reason :) | 11:39 |
| mece | jacquesdptd-mob2, best device evah, IMO. | 11:39 |
| marmoute | mece: sys.stderr.close() ? | 11:39 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i'm really more planning on maemo/meego than andriod | 11:40 |
| itdock | my n900 is definitely faster after this update | 11:40 |
| lardman | itdock: ah, wondered if there had been some hint, etc | 11:40 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | the user interfaces is a lot better | 11:40 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | and it seems more pro | 11:40 |
| mece | marmoute, yes, but where? | 11:40 |
| tybollt | itdock: what update? | 11:40 |
| itdock | lardman: last major update was preceeded by a minor one exactly a week prior | 11:40 |
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| itdock | PR1.1.1 | 11:40 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | mecei could take one if i wanted | 11:40 |
| lardman | have we just had a minor update then? | 11:40 |
| itdock | yes | 11:40 |
| lardman | oh | 11:40 |
| tybollt | itdock: let me tell you - you're late to the table :) | 11:40 |
| mece | lardman, PR1.1.1 apparently | 11:40 |
| itdock | i definitely am :P | 11:40 |
| lardman | ah good | 11:40 |
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| lardman | I'll see if I can get it downloaded then | 11:41 |
| mece | doh | 11:41 |
| marmoute | mece: why to you want to close it anywhere ? | 11:41 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | cause i finished my cell phone supplier engement and i can resiliate and profit of new customers offers | 11:41 |
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| itdock | memory use seems better as well, though i wish i could easily see what from extras-devel was occupying root | 11:41 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i should check the price the n900 would cost me | 11:41 |
| mece | marmoute, well I don't know where the error comes, I need all the output, but I'm not sure where to close the file. | 11:41 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | but now i know there no chances meego will run on it i should maybe wit a bit more | 11:42 |
| marmoute | mece: don't close it then | 11:42 |
| marmoute | pyton ill do it at the end. | 11:42 |
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| jacquesdptd-mob2 | guys | 11:42 |
| Dipsy | hi all | 11:42 |
| mece | marmoute, oh. Well that solves a lot of problems :) | 11:42 |
| * lardman curses the slowness of "checking for updates" | 11:43 | |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | starting from hardware / price what's the best phone actually ? | 11:43 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | for all of you | 11:43 |
| ShadowJK | mece: it'll be closed on exit anyway, but I'm fairly sure there's a way to set it unbuffered or line buffered too | 11:43 |
| itdock | hmm firefox is actually fast on 1.1.1 | 11:43 |
| Dipsy | who know how to get start php coding on my n900? | 11:43 |
| mece | ShadowJK, line buffered! Yes that's what I want | 11:43 |
| lardman | or just flush it after each write | 11:43 |
| ShadowJK | it's probably just because you just rebooted | 11:43 |
| mece | Dipsy, install the web server and get crackin | 11:44 |
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| itdock | nah i reboot all the time, this is definitely different | 11:44 |
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| itdock | ok time to catch some sleep before work in 4.5 hrs | 11:45 |
| itdock | :P | 11:45 |
| mece | hmm does sys.stderr use the write() function? I could just make a function that opens, writes, closes or something. | 11:45 |
| ShadowJK | mece: I'm pretty sure you can change buffering of fds in python | 11:46 |
| ShadowJK | I remember doing it on pys60 | 11:46 |
| marmoute | you do | 11:46 |
| lardman | so going back to the update, I don't see it currently, is that normal? | 11:46 |
| ShadowJK | lardman: last time it ws staggered across timezones? | 11:46 |
| mece | ShadowJK, I'm finding out. Thanks for the help. | 11:46 |
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| lardman | ShadowJK: ah ok | 11:47 |
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| * lardman heads off to try to work out Qt Table Delegates | 11:48 | |
| lardman | cu later chaps | 11:48 |
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| mece | apparently open('asdf/asdf/error.log', 'a', 0) would make it unbuffered. | 11:55 |
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| mece | renaming maemo 6 to meego: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=529073 | 11:57 |
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| Stskeeps | what on earth is Aptana | 11:58 |
| mece | Stskeeps, some moblin stuff perhaps? | 11:58 |
| adeus | ide | 11:58 |
| adeus | for webapps | 11:58 |
| mece | so it appears. | 11:59 |
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| Shapeshifter | Stskeeps: nah my gps lock was fine. meh I'll find out another time, I'm at work now ;) | 12:02 |
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| mece | PR1.1.1 now available OTA in Finland . | 12:05 |
| fcrozat | in whole west europe in fact | 12:06 |
| Corsac | any changelog? | 12:06 |
| mece | Wohooooo!!! | 12:07 |
| mece | found the bug! | 12:07 |
| Shapeshifter | is there a way to prohibit the n900 to connect to a specific non-secured wlan? | 12:07 |
| X-Fade | Shapeshifter: Not add it to your list? | 12:07 |
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| Shapeshifter | X-Fade: so removing it should work | 12:07 |
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| X-Fade | Shapeshifter: yes | 12:08 |
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| Shapeshifter | X-Fade: okay thanks | 12:11 |
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| mece | interesting. Turns out hildon-desktop loads the widgets before MyDocs is mounted, resulting in problems when a widget uses stuff from MyDocs. Since MyDocs is unmounted when masstorage connected I should implement workarounds either way... | 12:12 |
| Lantizia | is there actually an update released (after 2.2009.51-1 ?) as claimed by the forums? | 12:13 |
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| mece | Lantizia, yep. | 12:13 |
| Lantizia | mece: that turns it part meego? | 12:13 |
| mece | Lantizia, No | 12:13 |
| Lantizia | lol ok | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | Lantizia: only your device | 12:13 |
| mece | hahaha | 12:14 |
| mece | Let's see if this works. I have not even looked at df -h today.. | 12:14 |
| mece | tons of devel apps | 12:14 |
| mece | :) | 12:14 |
| mece | hmm downloading. Seems to be working. | 12:15 |
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| konttori_work | Stskeeps, Pr1.1.1 is going out today. I verified hat | 12:24 |
| konttori_work | it will be rolled out at different times in different time zones. | 12:25 |
| X-Fade | konttori_work: it already is. | 12:25 |
| konttori_work | Europe will roll out in 30 minutes | 12:25 |
| konttori_work | rest of the world should already be out now. | 12:25 |
| satmd | it already is being rolled out | 12:25 |
| Stskeeps | konttori_work: thanks, was a bit surprised :) we're happy cos it comes with sdk-fiasco-gen | 12:25 |
| satmd | and I could need some help | 12:25 |
| satmd | how can I list all packages belonging to extras-devel with dpkg? | 12:26 |
| * satmd is getting the 'not enough space' again | 12:26 | |
| konttori_work | how much space do you have satmd ? | 12:26 |
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| konttori_work | open xterm, type df | 12:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | heh | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | "Maemo" is in some of the symbian repositories :) | 12:27 |
| satmd | / is only 33mb left | 12:27 |
| asj_ | is there a 1.1.1 changelog? | 12:27 |
| ShadowJK | changelog would be cool | 12:27 |
| crashanddie | was the udpate released? | 12:28 |
| konttori_work | Key changes and improvements: | 12:28 |
| konttori_work | - OpenGL ES 1.1 API libraries added | 12:28 |
| konttori_work | - Support for OVI Store paid content distribution | 12:28 |
| konttori_work | - Support for almost new 40 new countries | 12:28 |
| konttori_work | - WLAN bugs mostly fixed | 12:28 |
| konttori_work | - Set of browser related error´s fixes | 12:28 |
| crashanddie | konttori_work: please don't flood the channel | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | asj_: i thought andre__ published one | 12:28 |
| asj_ | thanks :) | 12:28 |
| konttori_work | crashanddie, that wasn't too biig a flood | 12:28 |
| Corsac | konttori_work: an url would be better :) | 12:28 |
| asj_ | oooh, I wonder if it "supports" australia by now | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: please don't write "uDPate" | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | it reminds me of symbian code | 12:28 |
| andre__ | sigh | 12:28 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: eh? | 12:28 |
| asj_ | timeless_mbp: no, that would be CUpdateL | 12:28 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: ah, my bad | 12:28 |
| asj_ | ;) | 12:28 |
| andre__ | well, I have a ChangeLog here, yeah. and I expect Nokia to put it online | 12:29 |
| andre__ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1 exists, so I did expect http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 personally. But it does not exist ("yet", hopefully) | 12:29 |
| crashanddie | tiemlsee: i tond caer waht ouy kthin! | 12:29 |
| mece | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=529143&postcount=397 | 12:29 |
| ShadowJK | uh oh, PR1.1.1 will roll out 20 minutes before I have to leave for work, do I dare upgrade :) | 12:30 |
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| arachnist | hi | 12:30 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: it's a really minor update | 12:30 |
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| mece | If you have a twitter account you can follow it here: http://tweetchat.com/room/NokiaMWC for example... | 12:30 |
| mece | wow! | 12:30 |
| timeless_mbp | it isn't critical, it can wait for 8 hours | 12:30 |
| arachnist | how does one change the browser to portrait mode? ctrl+shift+o doesn't seem to work here | 12:30 |
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| ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, but I'll miss the new shiny for 8 hours :( | 12:30 |
| timeless_mbp | arachnist: um | 12:31 |
| ShadowJK | the new shiny I can't use anyway because I'll be busy | 12:31 |
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| ShadowJK | logic.. not... working | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | you realize you have to close your keyboard and hold your n900 in portrait orientation after using the keystroke | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | right? | 12:31 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: my mbp crashed when opening a new tab in safari | 12:31 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: it's doing the same right now... again | 12:31 |
| ShadowJK | crashanddie, blame flash | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: my mbp decided not to wake up last night | 12:31 |
| arachnist | timeless_mbp: hm | 12:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | the sata controller wasn't cooperating (The hdd is dying) | 12:31 |
| mece | ota update was pretty cool. I clicked download and started playing with the computer. next time I looked at the phone, it looked like app manager had crashed, since it was back at home. Turns out it was already updated and booted :) | 12:31 |
| crashanddie | ShadowJK: nothing to do with flash, at least I think... it's just those damn previews | 12:31 |
| arachnist | timeless_mbp: oh, thanks | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | arachnist: fwiw, the same behavior exists in Phone and all other apps | 12:32 |
| bigbrovar | wait a minute has any update been released for the N900? I hearing some talk about PR 1.1.1 ? | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | we're not supposed to give you portrait mode when your keyboard is open | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | you're obviously not using it in portrait mode :) | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | bigbrovar: yes | 12:32 |
| mece | bigrovar, yep its out. just updated from HAM here. | 12:32 |
| * asj_ install the update | 12:32 | |
| * timeless_mbp pokes crashanddie in private | 12:33 | |
| bigbrovar | timeless_mbp: nice :) | 12:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | bigbrovar: *shrug*, it's a _minor_ update | 12:33 |
| timeless_mbp | please don't expect the world to shift | 12:33 |
| asj_ | no one here is at mwc are they? | 12:33 |
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| *** lardman|gone is now known as lardman | 12:33 | |
| lardman | re | 12:33 |
| bigbrovar | timeless_mbp: still better than nothing, beside it might be yet another John the Baptist of updates :P | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | bigbrovar: please excuse me for not getting the reference | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | some historical figure... this i know | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori_work: congrats on shipping it btw | 12:35 |
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| cityLights | pls help , I can't update for a dont have engouth space. here is my df -h | 12:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | cityLights: don't paste your df here | 12:35 |
| cityLights | http://dpaste.com/159828/ | 12:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | cityLights: your problem is rootfs | 12:35 |
| cityLights | how to free space? where to free space? | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | you'll need to find some misbehaved 3rd party package and remove it for a bit | 12:36 |
| X-Fade | cityLights: Did you use apt to install things? | 12:36 |
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| cityLights | new update claims 16M yet I got 18 Mb free there | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | or, well, if you used apt, then you're the one who misbehaved :) | 12:36 |
| * timeless_mbp starts getting maemo bugmail | 12:36 | |
| cityLights | yes X-Fade I used apt to install stuff and allready rm /var/cache/apt/archives | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: is this you fixing tms? | 12:36 |
| andre__ | who is tms? | 12:37 |
| konttori_work | cityLights, clear the cache completely | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | target-milestones | 12:37 |
| X-Fade | cityLights: apt-get clean helped? | 12:37 |
| bigbrovar | well john the Baptist was suppose to be the dude who came before the christ to prepare the way for The coming of the christ. the reference was used in explaining the minor update which came just before PR 1.1 | 12:37 |
| andre__ | later | 12:37 |
| * RST38h moos at konttori, X-Fade, and others | 12:37 | |
| bigbrovar | timeless_mbp: . | 12:37 |
| asj_ | hmm, needs more than 32 megs in / | 12:37 |
| konttori_work | RST38h, is mooing good or bad? | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | bigbrovar: ah | 12:37 |
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| RST38h | konttori: Depends on the adjective | 12:37 |
| X-Fade | konttori_work: It is a friendly moo, didn't you hear? :) | 12:38 |
| timeless_mbp | bigbrovar: certainly not impossible | 12:38 |
| konttori_work | lol! | 12:38 |
| cityLights | apt-get clean dosnt free any space | 12:38 |
| bigbrovar | timeless_mbp: lol | 12:38 |
| timeless_mbp | however in this case, i think it's more likely that nokia wants to be able to sell stuff @ovi store | 12:38 |
| konttori_work | apt-get autoremove | 12:38 |
| lardman | cityLights: but does it remove any packages? | 12:38 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: so, that was a crash :) | 12:38 |
| bigbrovar | timeless_mbp: hehe in that case the John the baptist reference doesnt apply :p | 12:38 |
| lardman | Jaffa: you about? | 12:38 |
| cityLights | apt-get autoremove - doesnt remove any. I allready removed a few apps | 12:38 |
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| bigbrovar | timeless_mbp: I believe you are a maemo developer? | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm glad you believe that | 12:39 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: quick, duck | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: ok! | 12:39 |
| * timeless_mbp ducks | 12:39 | |
| pillar_ | asj_: I have 40mb free and stillc omplaining.. | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | pillar: what does "log" say in ham? | 12:40 |
| cityLights | http://dpaste.com/159831/ should I rm /var/cache/apt/* ? | 12:40 |
| bigbrovar | timeless_mbp: I wanted to know your take on the move to meego, most maemo developers have been silent so far. You guys would soon be working with the moblin dudes (I use moblin too and hangout in their IRC.. really nice dudes if I most say) | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | bigbrovar: so um | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | there are a number of reasons for us to be silent | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | 1. we just got the news when you did, so we have to think about it | 12:41 |
| w00t | a very big number of reasons | 12:41 |
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| tybollt | apt-get zomg-crash-and-burn-and-run-to-the-hills-rpm-will-soon-pwn-us | 12:41 |
| koivula | cityLights, apt-cache autoclean / clean | 12:41 |
| lardman | hmm, the wonders of a progress bar, supposed to let you know the app hasn't hung, except when the progress bar sits stationary for minutes at a time | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | 2. we were probably asked not to comment much | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | 3. we're probably busy working on maemo6 | 12:41 |
| pillar_ | timeless_mbp: there's some "ignorin versions from" from packages that replaces the default system ones | 12:41 |
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| koivula | cityLights, -cache/-get | 12:42 |
| * ShadowJK would disable extras-testing and extras-devel before update | 12:42 | |
| timeless_mbp | pillar_: you can save the log file from ham, upload it to a pastebin | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: good advice | 12:42 |
| asj_ | the office seems to agree Meego is pronounced Magoo | 12:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | bigbrovar: beyond that... i haven't really formed a public opinion | 12:42 |
| lardman | asj_: as in Mr Magoo :) | 12:42 |
| * ShadowJK would say it miigo | 12:42 | |
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| asj_ | lardman: ayup | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | 4. we're still waiting for more information about what it means from management | 12:42 |
| crashanddie_ | ShadowJK would disable extras-testing and extras-devel <- t,fitfy | 12:43 |
| cityLights | koivula: I ran 1. apt-cache autoclean and apt-cache clean - nothing workd | 12:43 |
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| tybollt | ehr yeah | 12:43 |
| Aranel | Hi, After selecting a new boot video, If I delete selected video, what happens? Does it revert back to "hands" and boots anyway? I dont want to brick my device for a simple change. | 12:43 |
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| konttori_work | I know it's not much of a consolation, but pr1.2 will require much less rootfs space than 1.1.1. | 12:43 |
| tybollt | this might not be the time to start picking on individual employees at nokia so - by GOD people, do restrain yourselves. | 12:43 |
| ShadowJK | konttori_work, what does it do to require less? :-) | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | tybollt++ | 12:43 |
| koivula | cityLights, well maybe then you don't have any packages in /var/cache/apt/archives/ | 12:43 |
| konttori_work | optify | 12:44 |
| cityLights | koivula: I ran 1. apt-get clean nothing happend | 12:44 |
| asj_ | konttori_work: assuming we can install 1.1.1 | 12:44 |
| ShadowJK | konttori_work, wow | 12:44 |
| cityLights | /var/cache/apt/archives/ if empty | 12:44 |
| * ShadowJK has 61 megs free on / anyway, without any extra tricks | 12:44 | |
| konttori_work | asj_, well, even if you cannot, then you can jump over it. | 12:44 |
| * lardman has ~10Mb free, time to apt-get remove some things | 12:44 | |
| cityLights | du -h /var => 60.8M | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | Aranel: no | 12:44 |
| asj_ | ShadowJK: ah it is possible....do you have anything installed? | 12:44 |
| konttori_work | only people who have installed from extras-devel, will have issues in rootfs. | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | Aranel: the way the boot videos work is this: | 12:44 |
| bigbrovar | timeless_mbp: I guess it was a hasty decision motivated more by business than Technical advantage, The decision was first made, and the technical details would be worked on later | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | there are a list of files which each specify videos to show | 12:45 |
| konttori_work | we have tested installing about 60 apps from extras, and not issues with rootfs. | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | if a file isn't present, that video isn't shown | 12:45 |
| cityLights | can I rm /var/lib/apt/lists to gain 21.5M ? | 12:45 |
| RST38h | To update Maemo5, do I need to stop OpenSSH first? | 12:45 |
| ShadowJK | asj_, openvpn, rsync, openssh, mytube, zoutube, xchat, gpodder, location-test-ui, crash-reporter, less, nano, fuelpad, pwsafe, mplayer | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | but if the file that used to specify hands is missing, then it couldn't be shown | 12:45 |
| ShadowJK | I probably forget something | 12:45 |
| pillar_ | timeless_mbp: http://pastebin.com/m1c9666e4 | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | and if you aren't seeing hands today, that means that file isn't around | 12:45 |
| ShadowJK | 3g/3g/dual mode switching applet, foreca weather applet | 12:45 |
| asj_ | heh I have 29 megs in /var/lib/dpkg | 12:45 |
| Aranel | timeless_mbp: so If it cant find specified video, it just skips and boots anyway? thanks =) | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | bigbrovar: well | 12:45 |
| cityLights | RST38h: no the update will put the device in offline mode | 12:45 |
| * asj_ turns off -testing and -devl for a moment | 12:46 | |
| konttori_work | cityLights, I'll make a script that will free up some serious space. | 12:46 |
| timeless_mbp | pillar_: not very helpful, eh? | 12:46 |
| konttori_work | hold on a sec... | 12:46 |
| cityLights | or should I rm /var/lib/dpkg/* ? | 12:46 |
| lardman | konttori_work: allowing users to choose localisation data would free space | 12:46 |
| timeless_mbp | personally i just moved all of a coworker's locales to /opt and added symlinks for them | 12:46 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: i should write a package that does that | 12:46 |
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| konttori_work | yeah, we'll also optify the localizations. | 12:47 |
| lardman | would be good if the data were in the repo, and Settings had a choose which to install applet | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori_work: coming in 1.2? | 12:47 |
| konttori_work | of course that kind of data compresses well, so it's not that much. | 12:47 |
| pillar_ | timeless_mbp: no, will disable devel and extras and see if that helps | 12:47 |
| konttori_work | yeah, coming in pr1.2 | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | pillar_: so | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | if this fails, disable every repo you don't need | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | set up apt to use /opt | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | and try asking it to do the upgrade | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | apt should give you a better error message | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | the "set up apt to use /opt" step is very important, don't skip it! | 12:48 |
| frals | sorry for being late to the party, any patchnotes around? | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | (someone else will walk you through that one) | 12:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | frals: in the log for today, by konttori_work | 12:48 |
| pillar_ | timeless_mbp: that's the step I'm not sure how to do | 12:48 |
| frals | ty | 12:48 |
| El_Angelo | thee is a new update for maemo n900? | 12:49 |
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| konttori_work | Here is a script that frees about 20 megs of space: http://pastebin.com/m53b242fc | 12:49 |
| satmd | yes | 12:49 |
| konttori_work | save as a optify.sh | 12:49 |
| El_Angelo | what is it about? | 12:49 |
| konttori_work | store to device. | 12:49 |
| konttori_work | execute as root | 12:49 |
| pillar_ | timeless_mbp: looks like disabling testing and devel was enough to get it upgrading | 12:49 |
| cityLights | konttori_work: let me test this answer | 12:49 |
| timeless_mbp | pillar_: cool | 12:49 |
| RST38h | I have 41MB / available but the Maemo5 update still does not install. Any specific reason? | 12:49 |
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| asj_ | what is /var/lib/dpkg/info used for? | 12:50 |
| konttori_work | I'm trying a reboot to see if device still comes up after executing that ;) | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: does the log say anything? | 12:50 |
| RST38h | what log? | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | asj_: it's the package database | 12:50 |
| pillar_ | RST38h: disabling testing and devel did it for me, I had 42mb before doing that and having the same trouble | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: tap the title area of ham | 12:50 |
| konttori_work | RST38h, I think 1.1.1 needs 42 mb of space (or 45... can't remember) | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | there should be a 'log' button | 12:50 |
| RST38h | ahha | 12:50 |
| asj_ | timeless_mbp: oh, there are recent date stamps, sorry I missed them | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | asj_: *shrug*, perfectly reasonable question | 12:51 |
| RST38h | the log is empty | 12:51 |
| konttori_work | yeah, device came up nicely. | 12:52 |
| konttori_work | cityLights, go ahead and use that script | 12:52 |
| konttori_work | also, anybody else, who needs only about 20 megs of free rootfs should use that. | 12:52 |
| konttori_work | I'll try to add a bit more to the script in a while. | 12:52 |
| RST38h | Mhm | 12:52 |
| RST38h | Still cannot update. | 12:52 |
| RST38h | No log. | 12:52 |
| ShadowJK | US? | 12:53 |
| cityLights | HORRAY!\ | 12:53 |
| ShadowJK | ah, still 7 minutes to europe I think? | 12:53 |
| cityLights | is this the fix that brings back the sip buttons to phone? | 12:54 |
| cityLights | konttori_work: thanks a lot man | 12:54 |
| timeless_mbp | cityLights: sip buttons?? | 12:54 |
| konttori_work | np! | 12:54 |
| konttori_work | ShadowJK, yeah, afaik. | 12:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | konttori_work: btw, how well will the 1.2 update work for people who are partially optified? :) | 12:54 |
| ShadowJK | cityLights, bug #? | 12:55 |
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| konttori_work | but I'm not part of the release process, so I don't know how punctual they are about the schedule | 12:55 |
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| konttori_work | timeless, it'll work just fine. Opt folder might have duplicates, but that's it | 12:55 |
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| konttori_work | we are going to use this path convention in the optification, so /opt/<rootfs path of the content-to-optify> | 12:56 |
| konttori_work | so, e.g. that script above won't result in duplicate files after upgrading to pr1.2 | 12:56 |
| tybollt | ugh | 12:57 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 12:57 | |
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| timeless_mbp | that's what i've been using | 12:57 |
| tybollt | all this 1.2 talk is making me nervous :S | 12:57 |
| tybollt | anxious | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | and i've prayed that it would "do the right thing" | 12:57 |
| konttori_work | yeah, well, it will do | 12:57 |
| plastun | hello! how to get 'back button' of StackableWindow to connect own signal? | 12:57 |
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| tybollt | timeless_mbp: I meant to file a bug about the missing --DWFIW flag to most hildon apps ;-) | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | tybollt: hey, i filed a bug against modest to DWIW | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori_work: speaking of which, i have some things i need to poke you about | 12:58 |
| asj_ | update installing... | 12:58 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp: ;) | 12:58 |
| pillar_ | .. updated. | 12:59 |
| asj_ | wife will life the update, the wifi keeps going nuts and killing her battery | 12:59 |
| lardman | konttori_work: should backups work ok with the update? | 12:59 |
| tybollt | pillar: which version | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | tybollt: well, one problem i have, is i have no idea how long it'll take before i get a response | 12:59 |
| pillar_ | tybollt: 1.1.1 I guess | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | w/ nokia, i have one patch i sent that got 2 responses in <1week | 12:59 |
| w00t | tybollt: nervous? it makes me excited! :P | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | one patch got no response (and doesn't seem to be present in the archive) | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | and in that same time, i sent a patch to xerces which was integrated | 12:59 |
| * timeless_mbp has a file with 150k entries | 13:00 | |
| timeless_mbp | (it had >300k entries when it started) | 13:00 |
| cityLights | timeless_mbp: the bug that shows only cellular number in phone | 13:00 |
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| aboyer | what is the prefered way of accessing the camera on maemo? using libgdigicam? | 13:00 |
| timeless_mbp | cityLights: bug#? sorry, your description is still poor | 13:01 |
| cityLights | so if you click a missed call, you can't choose to use sip | 13:01 |
| cityLights | searching | 13:01 |
| timeless_mbp | cityLights: oh | 13:01 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't think that's going to be fixed the way you want | 13:01 |
| lardman | hmm, nice to see a big "Operation Failed" banner during the update.... :) | 13:01 |
| timeless_mbp | if you click the dude icon on the left | 13:01 |
| timeless_mbp | you can typically get a better card which has the sip option | 13:01 |
| crashanddie_ | lardman: maybe using your code to access the camera? | 13:01 |
| timeless_mbp | cityLights: assuming this is what you mean, it'd only be fixed if konttori is given ownership and resources and decides to fix it | 13:01 |
| konttori_work | lardman, yes, backups should work | 13:02 |
| lardman | crashanddie_: ? | 13:02 |
| lardman | konttori_work: cheers | 13:02 |
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| crashanddie_ | lardman: remember the early versions of mbarcode? | 13:02 |
| konttori_work | asj_, the pr1.1.1 has wlan power consumption fixes | 13:02 |
| lardman | oh did it say that, long time ago ;) | 13:02 |
| timeless_mbp | cityLights: roughly, i have stuff like this w/ SIP, and at least in most cases, i'm able to do what i described to do what you want | 13:02 |
| timeless_mbp | but i rarely miss calls, so it's possible my use case isn't a match | 13:02 |
| ShadowJK | konttori_work, I don't need to ifconfig wlan0 down after leaving home anymore? :-) | 13:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | (konttori_work could call me if you wanted us to test) | 13:03 |
| lardman | oo, the startup screen is snazzier anyway | 13:03 |
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| cityLights | SIP is cheap. so I click the number long and open the "open contact" , then choose to call using sip | 13:03 |
| timeless_mbp | cityLights: oh, i know about cost | 13:03 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia has roughly speaking ordered me to use SIP | 13:03 |
| timeless_mbp | so i'm using it frequently w/ my n900 | 13:04 |
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| * MohammadAG wonders what the dbus signal for toggling bluetooth is | 13:04 | |
| crashanddie_ | or SIP is free to call France for people with specific credentials... | 13:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: oh brother | 13:04 |
| MohammadAG | lol why? | 13:04 |
| timeless_mbp | just use a dbus sniffer and use the bluetooth applet | 13:04 |
| timeless_mbp | see what happens | 13:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | dbus is a well understood system, the tools for managing it are there | 13:05 |
| MohammadAG | running mbus2 atm | 13:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | you can solve this black box w/o wondering here | 13:05 |
| Gaap | hi | 13:05 |
| crashanddie_ | hi Gaap | 13:05 |
| Gaap | do you know if it possible to enable verbose mode on boot on a rooted n800 ? :O | 13:05 |
| timeless_mbp | Gaap: what would that mean? | 13:05 |
| crashanddie_ | rooted? | 13:05 |
| timeless_mbp | there's no text console for output from the kernel while you boot | 13:06 |
| Gaap | n800 with root access | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | you'd have to install your own kernel if you wanted that | 13:06 |
| Gaap | like in linux, with dmesg output at start | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | ^^ | 13:06 |
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| * lardman wonders why the capital Os in Catorize have some sort of slash on them | 13:06 | |
| Gaap | :O | 13:06 |
| Gaap | ok, i read about compiling it | 13:06 |
| Gaap | ty | 13:06 |
| crashanddie_ | Gaap: no | 13:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | lardman: to be fancy? :) | 13:06 |
| crashanddie_ | lardman: font? | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | Gaap: why do you want to do this? | 13:07 |
| crashanddie_ | I nearly chose not to use Catorize because it's spelt wrongly -- with a z | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | is there something wrong? | 13:07 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: nope, he just wants to show off | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie_: eh? | 13:07 |
| lardman | yeah font, but why would an O have any dangly bits I wonder | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | it's spelled Catorise in engb, no? | 13:07 |
| Gaap | timeless_mbp, cause i'm a linux user and i like to see what my system start on n800 | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | afaik it's only Catorize for enus | 13:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | Gaap: total waste of time, but have fun | 13:07 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: is it? I was just picking up on lardman spelling with a z... Your sarcasm meter is broken | 13:08 |
| Gaap | :) | 13:08 |
| lardman | oh maybe | 13:08 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: see, told you, show off | 13:08 |
| Gaap | that's linux :p a totally waste of time | 13:08 |
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| * timeless_mbp doesn't run a sarcasm detector | 13:08 | |
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| timeless_mbp | finns don't do sarcasm, so it's a waste of resources :) | 13:08 |
| lardman | I've been reading code, hence the z's | 13:08 |
| asj_ | hmpf, install failed half way though | 13:08 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: I mean, he's italian, he speaks about a "rooted n800", and wants to see boot messages, of course it was show off :P | 13:08 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie_: yeah, you won that bet | 13:09 |
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| aboyer | any reason why libgdigicam is only available on x86 and not arm? | 13:10 |
| timeless_mbp | aboyer: wouldn't it make more sense to ask the packager? | 13:10 |
| lardman | aboyer: it's on arm too | 13:10 |
| crashanddie_ | Gaap: you have a radical n800? | 13:10 |
| lardman | or do you mean not in the repo? | 13:10 |
| Gaap | crashanddie_, radical? | 13:11 |
| aboyer | lardman: apt tells me that libgdigicam0 is not available in scratchbox arm | 13:11 |
| crashanddie_ | ah man, even a native doesn't get my jokes | 13:11 |
| crashanddie_ | radical -> radici -> root | 13:11 |
| Gaap | :O yes | 13:11 |
| Gaap | root on os2008 | 13:11 |
| lardman | aboyer: I don't have my build machine here, but my code compiles against it | 13:11 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, I'm a finn, and sarcasm is my first language... | 13:11 |
| cityLights | no https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8159 , is not fixed | 13:11 |
| povbot` | Bug 8159: Missing direct shortcut to use SIP/Skype again in Recent Calls list | 13:12 |
| crashanddie_ | mece: yeah, right | 13:12 |
| lardman | crashanddie_: that was poor | 13:12 |
| guerby | 3.2010.02-8 upgrade running! | 13:12 |
| satmd | my n900 froze | 13:12 |
| timeless_mbp | cityLights: 1.1.1 is a *MINOR* update | 13:12 |
| Gaap | i saw that it was possible to install angostrom on n800 too | 13:12 |
| Gaap | that's interesting :-/ | 13:12 |
| crashanddie_ | lardman: see, no wonder they didn't understand me in amsterdam... | 13:12 |
| timeless_mbp | cityLights: note that any mention of 10.2010.* means "AFTER 1.1.1" | 13:12 |
| *** Anidel has joined #maemo | 13:12 | |
| lardman | :) | 13:12 |
| Anidel | hi guys | 13:12 |
| crashanddie_ | yoo Anidel | 13:13 |
| *** fcrozat is now known as fcrozat|lunch | 13:13 | |
| Anidel | uninstalling stuff to update Maemo | 13:13 |
| Anidel | hey Seb | 13:13 |
| mece | hi andiel | 13:13 |
| Anidel | hi mece | 13:13 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 13:13 | |
| timeless_mbp | cityLights: wait | 13:13 |
| mece | andiel, this update didn't need much it appears. | 13:13 |
| timeless_mbp | it says that if i upgrade my n900 to an internal build, my life might suck less | 13:13 |
| Anidel | more than I have :) | 13:13 |
| mece | andiel, I only removed openarena | 13:13 |
| cityLights | too bad, was hoping for that one | 13:13 |
| mece | andiel, right | 13:13 |
| timeless_mbp | cool | 13:13 |
| nid0 | blah, still no update even showing here yet :( | 13:13 |
| Anidel | mece: it's anidel not andiel :D | 13:14 |
| timeless_mbp | cityLights: thanks, i'll update and enjoy it for a while :) | 13:14 |
| crashanddie_ | Jaffa, lardman: let me share you a nice one from Anidel yesterday... He PM'd me yesterday, sounding very happy... Saying "I'm going to the West coast of Canada, I might come and visit you!" | 13:14 |
| Anidel | nid0, you can flash it :) | 13:14 |
| * Anidel needs to go somewhere :) | 13:14 | |
| Anidel | well Canada's still closer to Australia than Uk :P | 13:14 |
| nid0 | meh, means firing up another machine, rather wait for ota to hurry up | 13:14 |
| mece | anidel, doh. I've always heard it in my mind as andiel. | 13:14 |
| Anidel | mece ahah | 13:15 |
| cityLights | I also saw sevral secerions where the N900 freeses. must repreduce to report it | 13:15 |
| * satmd needs to reflash :( | 13:15 | |
| mece | satmd, howcome? | 13:15 |
| Anidel | nice.. I'm uninstalling and free space on / goes down instead of up ... may be I need to reboot | 13:15 |
| satmd | mece: doesn't boot, stays black | 13:16 |
| aboyer | lardman: apt is acting weird, it is now listing gdigicam under the arm target... | 13:16 |
| timeless_mbp | Anidel: typically you do | 13:16 |
| mece | satmd, well that's not very good now is it.. | 13:16 |
| konttori_work | Anidel, use this script: http://pastebin.com/m53b242fc | 13:16 |
| timeless_mbp | ubifs is a garbage collecting system | 13:16 |
| konttori_work | run that as root | 13:16 |
| satmd | happened during the upgrade to 1.1.1 | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | question, is your /home/user/.profile empty? | 13:16 |
| konttori_work | it will free enough space for you | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | on your n900 | 13:16 |
| satmd | mece: probably easily fixed - and I did a backup before upgrading, too :) | 13:16 |
| El_Angelo | annoying that you can't update from the device itself :( | 13:16 |
| konttori_work | satmd, try removing battery and reboot again. | 13:16 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Not even there. | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: excellent | 13:17 |
| mece | konttori_work, nice script. Very straight forward. I like it :) | 13:17 |
| Anidel | konttori_work, thanks, will run it | 13:17 |
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| Anidel | nice.. it appened .txt anyway.. grrr hate this | 13:18 |
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| *** bigon has joined #maemo | 13:18 | |
| *** bigon has joined #maemo | 13:18 | |
| El_Angelo | having to keep a winxp machine around just for updating my phone is a bit annoying | 13:18 |
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| *** rdorsch has joined #maemo | 13:18 | |
| timeless_mbp | Anidel: you can use sh -x foo.txt | 13:18 |
| X-Fade | El_Angelo: Huh? | 13:18 |
| timeless_mbp | .sh is just a convention | 13:18 |
| nid0 | why not update ota El_Angelo? | 13:18 |
| El_Angelo | ota? | 13:18 |
| nid0 | using the phone's app manager. | 13:19 |
| Anidel | timeless_mbp, I know. it's just the point.. | 13:19 |
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| *** bigon has joined #maemo | 13:19 | |
| El_Angelo | nid0: it tells me i need to update from the computer ? | 13:19 |
| Anidel | timeless_mbp, why show me the full name (bla.txt) and let me change it if then you'll append .txt anyway? | 13:19 |
| Stskeeps | El_Angelo: use linux flasher? | 13:19 |
| El_Angelo | have no linux here atm | 13:19 |
| timeless_mbp | Anidel: so you'll know what extension it'll get at the end ;-) | 13:20 |
| Anidel | konttori_work, do I need to create a dir before running it? | 13:20 |
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| thresh | woah, updater says i've got to use some application | 13:20 |
| El_Angelo | linux @ home, windows 7 /2008R2 @ work :( | 13:20 |
| konttori_work | Anidel, no, you don't | 13:20 |
| konttori_work | just put in anywhere | 13:20 |
| Anidel | I mean 'mkdir /home/opt/usr' ? | 13:20 |
| konttori_work | then | 13:20 |
| El_Angelo | thresh: indeed | 13:20 |
| konttori_work | Anidel, that script makes that dir as first thing it does | 13:20 |
| thresh | but i run leeenuks | 13:20 |
| timeless_mbp | thresh: so um, make more space on your n900 | 13:20 |
| timeless_mbp | by using konttori_work 's script | 13:20 |
| Anidel | I see that. I get errors.. let me investigate a bit | 13:20 |
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| mece | konttori_work, could also have cp -r /var/cache/apt/* /opt/var/cache/apt; rm -r /var/cache/apt; ln -s /opt/var/cache/apt /var/cache/apt | 13:21 |
| thresh | timeless_mbp: oh joys of 'nokia language'. | 13:21 |
| timeless_mbp | thresh: are you using my English? | 13:21 |
| timeless_mbp | if not, you should switch :) | 13:21 |
| thresh | i really need a translation from 'dumb users language' to a more technical one | 13:21 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 13:21 | |
| timeless_mbp | "Run Flasher tool" | 13:21 |
| El_Angelo | the only reason the phone doesn't want to update itself is because it needs more storage space?? | 13:21 |
| RST38h | 61MB / free, still cannot install | 13:21 |
| thresh | RST38h: the ultimate solution: remove qt4 :-) | 13:22 |
| * timeless_mbp wants to fire RST38h as a customer | 13:22 | |
| konttori_work | mece, good point. feel free to post fixed version (and perhaps somebody could blog about that) | 13:22 |
| Anidel | so.. that's weird I cd in /home/opt | 13:22 |
| *** simha has quit IRC | 13:22 | |
| Anidel | and I see usr there | 13:22 |
| Anidel | drwxr-xr-x usr | 13:22 |
| Anidel | but I can't ls or cd in it? | 13:22 |
| konttori_work | RST38h, sounds like something else is blocking the update for you | 13:22 |
| Anidel | should I run it as user? | 13:22 |
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| konttori_work | perhaps you have a conflicting package | 13:22 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: the log should really say *something* | 13:23 |
| thresh | 34.5M, no go | 13:23 |
| El_Angelo | 51.4 MB | 13:23 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Otherwise see what apt-get says. | 13:23 |
| El_Angelo | no go | 13:23 |
| Anidel | ah !!! I see 'usr' but the name is wrong.. it has sme binary stuff in it!! | 13:23 |
| *** bigon has quit IRC | 13:23 | |
| El_Angelo | where is the log? | 13:23 |
| *** bigon has joined #maemo | 13:23 | |
| *** bigon has joined #maemo | 13:23 | |
| timeless_mbp | oh, awesome | 13:24 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori_work: ? | 13:24 |
| timeless_mbp | if you have an untagged mp3, you get "(unknown albu" | 13:24 |
| Anidel | let me reboot first... | 13:24 |
| RST38h | konttori: I killed OpenSSH already. But how do I diagnose which package? | 13:24 |
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| *** bigon has joined #maemo | 13:24 | |
| RST38h | thresh: Really? qt4? | 13:25 |
| * RST38h closing in for a kill | 13:25 | |
| Shapeshifter | so, I see there's an update for "maemo5". And it asks me to connect it to the PC? | 13:25 |
| mece | konttori_work, http://pastebin.com/m78d75a95 | 13:25 |
| thresh | well, libqt4 eats a lot of space | 13:25 |
| Shapeshifter | >.> what is this. I don't have any software for nokia on my linux machine | 13:25 |
| El_Angelo | Shapeshifter: join the party! | 13:25 |
| mece | oops.. should use /home/opt/ like the rest. | 13:25 |
| satmd | konttori_work: had no luck, but reflashing seems to still work | 13:25 |
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| Shapeshifter | El_Angelo: excuse me? | 13:26 |
| mece | konttori_work, ok, here: http://pastebin.com/m3ceee36e | 13:26 |
| Shapeshifter | so, what do I need to install? | 13:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | mece: can you add a comment on line 2 explaining what the script is for? | 13:26 |
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| nid0 | if you're on nix, use the maemo flasher | 13:26 |
| thresh | the joys of nokia, duh | 13:26 |
| Shapeshifter | nid0: okay thanks | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: and also lines 2..7 should really eat error messages | 13:26 |
| thresh | it finds a way to screw something up :) | 13:26 |
| ifreq | is it pr 1.2 ? | 13:27 |
| bleeter | lol trying to get Schneider to explain why developers should have to wait 6+ months for hardware... think I'm on mission impossible | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | otherwise people will see 'cannot create directory' which is stupid | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | ifreq: 1.1.1 | 13:27 |
| Shapeshifter | nid0: do I need to backup my data or something? or can I just flash | 13:27 |
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| nid0 | generate a backup on the phone first | 13:27 |
| asj_ | ah screw it, I'll wait till 1.2 | 13:27 |
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| RST38h | bleeter: you should obviously burn yourself in front of Nokia HQ | 13:27 |
| Anidel | how should /home/opt be mounted ? | 13:27 |
| asj_ | arg I can't, it's half installed | 13:27 |
| X-Fade | bleeter: And what are you expecting in new hardware that warrants that wait? | 13:27 |
| RST38h | bleeter: Will provide great comic relief for all the present, at least | 13:27 |
| Anidel | I think I have something messed up here... | 13:28 |
| Janick | hi | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori_work: see the bottom right item in http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/Screenshot-20100216-132517.png | 13:28 |
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| bleeter | X-Fade: Taking that long for n900 to become avail under warranty here... if next gen hardware like this might just punch my own face ;) | 13:28 |
| ensi | whats the trick to getting an app running at startup with upstart? :/ | 13:28 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, I'm clueless about shellscripting, so dunno how to ignore errors | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | [ -d foo ] || mkdir foo | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | or | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | mkdir foo 2> /dev/null | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | your choice | 13:29 |
| X-Fade | bleeter: Every Nokia device has been that way. Symbian phones too. | 13:29 |
| bleeter | X-Fade: not as if been able to get any previous maemo hardware, either... | 13:29 |
| asj_ | n900 won't be sold here ever | 13:29 |
| vmlemon_ | Next time you're in London, get down to Boundary Row in Southwark, and vent your frustrations at the Nokia office there ;) | 13:29 |
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| bleeter | asj_: look at nokia.com.au, next month it says | 13:29 |
| * timeless_mbp puzzles | 13:29 | |
| timeless_mbp | vmlemon_: aren't you in #symbian? | 13:29 |
| bleeter | asj_: as does the staff of there, and crazy johns | 13:29 |
| vmlemon_ | Yeah | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | the crossover i keep seeing is really surreal | 13:30 |
| asj_ | bleeter: o rly? | 13:30 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: *g* | 13:30 |
| bleeter | asj_: my bad, doesn't say 'next month', says 'upcoming' | 13:30 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: it's worse IMO with #maemo vs #meego, I just see 'm' at the start and get confused | 13:30 |
| Anidel | damn... | 13:30 |
| bleeter | it's in store says next month there's some staff competition where the n900's the prizes | 13:30 |
| bleeter | ie, nokia care staff | 13:30 |
| thresh | :/ | 13:30 |
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| mece | timeless, "mkdir foo 2> /dev/null" what's the 2 doing there? | 13:31 |
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| satmd | redirecting stderr instead of stdout | 13:31 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: unix works w/ file handle numbers | 13:31 |
| timeless_mbp | 1 = stdout | 13:31 |
| timeless_mbp | 2 = stderr | 13:31 |
| mece | ok, thanks | 13:31 |
| Anidel | ahhhh there it is!!! :D | 13:31 |
| satmd | 0 = stdin | 13:31 |
| timeless_mbp | so it's saying "send stderr to /dev/null" | 13:31 |
| Anidel | the script has been save with '^M' so it created usr^M | 13:32 |
| RST38h | Sorry but what is the actual name of the maemo5 package? What should I apt-get install? | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, for >, it defaults to 1> | 13:32 |
| mece | # is comments, right? | 13:32 |
| mece | hehe | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: yes | 13:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | (except the first line, which is magical) | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | #!<whatever> | 13:32 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, yep. Here: http://pastebin.com/m489444ef | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | it's technically a comment, but it's a meaningful comment | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | > from to opt | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | i think you lost a SLASH there :) | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: definitely better | 13:33 |
| mece | k. | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | if you want to add a comment before each section explaining which file type it is, that'd be cool | 13:33 |
| * RST38h laughs satanically as apt-get is remving qt4 | 13:33 | |
| w00t | aww, that's not nice | 13:34 |
| w00t | what did qt4 ever do to you | 13:34 |
| mece | timeless_mpb, http://pastebin.com/m4313f94d | 13:34 |
| timeless_mbp | # Themes, # Icons, # Splash Screen(s), # ??? , # Apt commandline cache | 13:34 |
| thresh | RST38h: it will remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr as well :-) | 13:34 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, could post this to wiki I suppose. | 13:34 |
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| thresh | who cares, though | 13:34 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: yeah it should move to a wiki | 13:34 |
| Anidel | now the script runs. .thanks konttori_work | 13:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | mece: ok, i think you're set to move it to a wiki | 13:34 |
| timeless_mbp | and provide instructions :) | 13:35 |
| *** fr01 has quit IRC | 13:35 | |
| timeless_mbp | then stick the wiki page into the topic | 13:35 |
| Caesium | RST38h: mp-fremantle-002-pr looks likely | 13:35 |
| timeless_mbp | (if there's space) | 13:35 |
| * satmd is getting a locked sim symbol | 13:35 | |
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| thresh | it is not 'ignoring errors' | 13:35 |
| Shapeshifter | so, do I need some fiasco image or what? I'm really confused. This procedure is so non-linux like >.> | 13:35 |
| thresh | it's 'hiding errors' | 13:35 |
| thresh | ignoring is adding ||: after each line | 13:35 |
| Anidel | now I can updaete | 13:36 |
| Anidel | s/updaete/update | 13:36 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: thresh is correct, sorry :) | 13:36 |
| bleeter | would seem Schneider's telling me I should import hardware and void warranty... gah | 13:36 |
| El_Angelo | This Maemo update requires the Nokia software application on your PC for installation. Connect device to PC via USB cable an open Nokia software update application. The application will guide you through the rest of the Maemo update. | 13:36 |
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| thresh | and i'd rather add -p instead of all that uglyness :) | 13:36 |
| Anidel | anyway.. the fact that I like Windows Phone 7 Series interface (i.e. Zune one) .. it's bad? | 13:36 |
| bleeter | ah well, least with the meego/Intel there should be less of this hattery ;) | 13:37 |
| lardman | Anidel: no | 13:37 |
| Anidel | lardman, thanks.. | 13:37 |
| lardman | I want some plain Windows 6.x email love | 13:37 |
| Anidel | looks like email experience in win 7 phone series is amazing.. we'll see | 13:38 |
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| lardman | Anidel: http://nexus404.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads2/2009/11/HTC-HS2-Smartphone-side-3-quarter-angle-email.jpg | 13:38 |
| El_Angelo | i hope windows 7 series *FAILS* *EPICALLY* | 13:38 |
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| Anidel | El_Angelo, why? | 13:38 |
| El_Angelo | cause i want no ms monopoly in mobile space as well | 13:39 |
| Anidel | lardman, that's Sense UI.. you find the same widget into Android from HTC | 13:39 |
| El_Angelo | it will bring nothing than misery | 13:39 |
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| lardman | Anidel: ah right, well either way their UI is nice | 13:39 |
| Anidel | El_Angelo, actually.. I think this time is Apple monopoly | 13:39 |
| lardman | has useful widgets anyway | 13:39 |
| nid0 | success != monopoly | 13:39 |
| * thresh is dist-upgrading using apt-get, stupid appmanager sucks | 13:39 | |
| El_Angelo | Anidel: no it's not | 13:39 |
| Anidel | lardman, indeed it is | 13:39 |
| Anidel | El_Angelo, yes it is. | 13:39 |
| El_Angelo | there are still less iphones than nokia's | 13:39 |
| El_Angelo | *WAY* less | 13:39 |
| vmlemon_ | New WinMo 7 UI looks like a kid had an accident in a scrapbooking class | 13:39 |
| El_Angelo | and android is doing well | 13:39 |
| * vmlemon_ hides | 13:39 | |
| El_Angelo | and i'm not even judging the technology begin win7 | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: "ooh shiny" | 13:40 |
| Anidel | El_Angelo, but sill an Apple monopoly. I wish THAT fails miserably | 13:40 |
| lardman | vmlemon_: yes does a little, will be interesting to see what they do with i | 13:40 |
| vmlemon_ | 32MB per process | 13:40 |
| vmlemon_ | Still in 2010 | 13:40 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: not shiny, just usable, far more so than the client we have | 13:40 |
| El_Angelo | Anidel: and still iphone's sucess is not hurting you | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: that too | 13:40 |
| El_Angelo | the same can not be said about ms technology | 13:40 |
| thresh | nice, dist-upgrade went fine | 13:41 |
| * timeless_mbp kicks bugzilla | 13:41 | |
| thresh | well, almost | 13:41 |
| timeless_mbp | like i really want a row with all goose eggs | 13:41 |
| nid0 | the iphone's success actually tends to be hurting the rest of the mobile community more than ms's success does with desktops | 13:41 |
| Anidel | El_Angelo, it is. | 13:41 |
| Anidel | El_Angelo, how come Win 6.x is hurting anybody ? | 13:41 |
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| El_Angelo | win 6 is no succes... | 13:41 |
| El_Angelo | it still is an epic failure | 13:42 |
| Shapeshifter | so... http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php there's no "not for debian based linuxes" | 13:42 |
| El_Angelo | no one like winmo6 | 13:42 |
| Anidel | El_Angelo, still it runs on a WIDE range of phones out there and will continue | 13:42 |
| Shapeshifter | oh nevermind | 13:42 |
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| thresh | niiiiiiiiice: http://pastebin.ca/1798260 | 13:43 |
| Anidel | shit! 30Mb free and still complains | 13:43 |
| El_Angelo | Anidel: and still there is no monopoly in mobile space | 13:44 |
| El_Angelo | i want it to stay that way... that's why i like winmo7 to fail | 13:44 |
| El_Angelo | nothing more... nothing less | 13:44 |
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| Anidel | El_Angelo, I wish the exact opposite :) we need more players | 13:45 |
| El_Angelo | i think that is a fair concern considering microsoft's state of record... | 13:45 |
| El_Angelo | i didn't say ms can't play in mobile space... | 13:45 |
| El_Angelo | they are totally allowed | 13:45 |
| Anidel | oh so this is not PR1.2 .. it's PR 1.1.1.? | 13:45 |
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| El_Angelo | but i don't wish them *ANY* luck | 13:46 |
| El_Angelo | :) | 13:46 |
| Anidel | fair enough | 13:47 |
| asj_ | lol nothing like apt-get -f install to gget the upgrade through | 13:47 |
| Anidel | WTF!!!! he says I need 12Mb , I have 30Mb .. what is missing??? | 13:48 |
| ifreq | Anidel: its just minor patch no 1.2 | 13:48 |
| frals | Anidel: i needed around 40, disabled -devel and -testing and it should be fine | 13:48 |
| Anidel | ok, but why it says there is no space? | 13:48 |
| mece | Anidel, did you remove the extras repos? | 13:48 |
| Anidel | why disabling -devel and -testing helps? | 13:48 |
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| Anidel | do they occupy that much space? | 13:49 |
| mece | anidel, caching and whatnot. | 13:49 |
| RST38h | thresh: thanks a lot =) Removing QT worked like a charm | 13:49 |
| Anidel | :/ | 13:49 |
| mece | anidel, yes. massive amounts | 13:49 |
| thresh | RST38h: lucky you | 13:49 |
| mece | anidel, just disable, you don't need to remove. | 13:49 |
| thresh | RST38h: i've dist-upgraded using apt and now one of the packages just does not configure :) | 13:49 |
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| thresh | rebooting atm, looks like it flashes nevertheless | 13:49 |
| mece | anidel, disable extras, testing, devel and any 3rd party repos | 13:50 |
| mece | anidel gives you 20M or so :) | 13:50 |
| Anidel | thanks.. it going ahead | 13:50 |
| genis3ll | Just upgraded and haven't found any visible changes? whats in this update? | 13:50 |
| Anidel | they should optify HAM :D | 13:50 |
| asj_ | genis3ll: wifi fixes | 13:50 |
| mece | genis3ll, just minor bugfixes. | 13:50 |
| genis3ll | asj_: mece: Should this improve battery consumption? | 13:51 |
| Anidel | asj_, wifi fixes? I can finally go back and forth from home and office without restarting my device? :) | 13:51 |
| asj_ | Anidel: maybe? :) | 13:51 |
| Anidel | I don't like it.. it's updating.. HAM said Operation Failed | 13:51 |
| Anidel | and it's going ahead? | 13:51 |
| asj_ | yup | 13:51 |
| Anidel | the Title Bar disappeared | 13:51 |
| nid0 | lots of people reporting that | 13:52 |
| thresh | lol, mobile just doesnt start now :-( | 13:52 |
| thresh | looks like i really need to use flasher | 13:52 |
| mece | anidel, i didn't look at mine, so I don't know what it did. worked fine though. | 13:52 |
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| nid0 | still not even got an ota update showing here :( | 13:52 |
| Anidel | mece: you prefer to look away :D | 13:52 |
| Anidel | eheheh | 13:52 |
| RST38h | thresh: I would not dist-upgrade Maemo5 | 13:52 |
| mece | anidel, no, it was downloading, and I was busy. | 13:52 |
| thresh | wow, started up now :-) | 13:52 |
| Anidel | mece: kidding :p | 13:52 |
| mece | thresh, :) | 13:52 |
| thresh | it took the device four reboots | 13:52 |
| RST38h | thresh: BAD, BAD idea. Maemo4 was actually ok if approached carefully | 13:52 |
| Anidel | rebooting | 13:53 |
| thresh | RST38h: how am i supposed to update it then? | 13:53 |
| mece | hammy | 13:53 |
| thresh | it doesn't work. | 13:53 |
| thresh | :) | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: ping | 13:54 |
| tru | anyone seen any changes in the new firmware? | 13:54 |
| tru | is Qt updated? | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, nm | 13:54 |
| andre__ | timeless, pong | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry, i misread | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | you moved version, not target milestone | 13:54 |
| mece | whoa! the rollercoaster game looks sweet! | 13:54 |
| RST38h | thresh: I have done apt-get remove libqt4-core | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | ARG | 13:54 |
| * timeless_mbp missed lunch | 13:54 | |
| * timeless_mbp cries | 13:54 | |
| RST38h | thresh: It made a farting sound and autoupdated me with maemo5 | 13:54 |
| mece | http://mobiletechaddicts.com/2010/02/16/3d-games-coming-to-n900/ | 13:55 |
| andre__ | tru: Qt has never been part of the firmware, hence it cannot be updated... | 13:55 |
| * andre__ hands over a cookie to timeless | 13:55 | |
| RST38h | thresh: My guess is that HAM made that maemo5 update pending, then apt-get started it as soon as qt4 was removed | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: only mostly correct | 13:55 |
| tru | andre__: oh, but I saw something about Qt4.6.2 for PR1.2. | 13:55 |
| andre__ | hehe | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | we have a baseline bit of qt in maemo5 :) | 13:55 |
| andre__ | tru: yeah, but this is PR1.1.1 | 13:55 |
| Anidel | there was a fond change? | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | it's used by mail iirc | 13:55 |
| tru | ah. | 13:55 |
| tru | ok. | 13:55 |
| tru | thanks for the clarification. | 13:55 |
| andre__ | np :) | 13:55 |
| Anidel | font | 13:55 |
| RST38h | thresh: About still shows 51.1 though, I hope it is ok | 13:56 |
| Anidel | ok updated.. not flawlessly, but updated | 13:56 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: i'm pretty sure that's wrong | 13:56 |
| thresh | RST38h: well, did it show the progressbar under Nokia logo on reboot? | 13:56 |
| mece | RST38h, that doesn't sound like it updated.. | 13:56 |
| Anidel | RST38h, it is wrong | 13:56 |
| RST38h | thresh: it did not reboot | 13:56 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: you need to ask it to reboot | 13:56 |
| thresh | then you did not flash it yet :-) | 13:57 |
| Shapeshifter | mh. what a dumb update procedure | 13:57 |
| RST38h | Ok rebooting | 13:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: eh? | 13:57 |
| thresh | and it says Version: 3.2010.02-8 here | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | the default update procedure works quite nicely | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | it's graphical, shiny, and painless | 13:57 |
| Shapeshifter | timeless_mbp: wiping everything, having to restore backup. All very unlinuxy | 13:57 |
| mece | Shapeshifter, ? The update procedure is: launch ham, click update, choose maemo, click continue. Wait. | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: um | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | you're not supposed to do that | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | if you did that, you weren't patient enough | 13:57 |
| Shapeshifter | timeless_mbp: then why did it say "you have to connect to pc to update this" | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | and really | 13:58 |
| tybollt | ok so nokia ma{kes,de} tires and TV's, but lunch? come on timless :P | 13:58 |
| mece | Shapeshifter, you need to uninstall some conflicting devel apps first. | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | tybollt: who's timless? | 13:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: because something prevented it from working magically | 13:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | perhaps you didn't have enough space? | 13:58 |
| Shapeshifter | timeless_mbp: patient enough? I saw an update "maemo5". I wanted to install it. Then it said "you have to connect to PC app to update". | 13:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | perhaps you had a conflicting package | 13:58 |
| RST38h | Showed dots then asked for pin | 13:58 |
| Shapeshifter | timeless_mbp: uhm, then why didn't it say so. | 13:58 |
| RST38h | No flashing detected | 13:58 |
| mece | Shapeshifter, for me it was openarena. | 13:58 |
| Shapeshifter | like "conflicts with package xy" or "not enough space" | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: because nokia doesn't want people calling nokia care and spending millions of dollars getting support | 13:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | for things nokia care couldn't handle anyway | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | but you, the idiot who did i | 13:59 |
| Shapeshifter | timeless_mbp: well then I stand my point. what a dumb update procedure. | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | should have asked for help here | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: why? | 13:59 |
| Shapeshifter | timeless_mbp: I did :) | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | it saves nokia money | 13:59 |
| Shapeshifter | scroll up | 13:59 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp: Well aren't you mr nitpicker then? :) | 13:59 |
| mece | Shapeshifter, I didn't see it. sorry. | 13:59 |
| Shapeshifter | no worries | 13:59 |
| Shapeshifter | I don't date to demand help ;) | 13:59 |
| Shapeshifter | *dare | 14:00 |
| timeless_mbp | tybollt: i've been told to sign up for things as Tim E Less | 14:00 |
| tybollt | >:X | 14:00 |
| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: the alternative for an automatic updater | 14:00 |
| tybollt | >:D | 14:00 |
| timeless_mbp | when it reaches a state it can't handle are to try anyway and give you a brick | 14:00 |
| timeless_mbp | the brick will um, make you much less happy | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | and would be much more unixy | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw | 14:01 |
| Shapeshifter | indeed xD | 14:01 |
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| * tybollt bricks self | 14:01 | |
| timeless_mbp | the "use a flasher" is roughly equivalent to "printer is on fire" | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lp0_on_fire | 14:01 |
| tybollt | mmmmh fire.... | 14:01 |
| Shapeshifter | well, now I flashed it. And now it reinstalls all the apps. | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: besides, if it manages to reinstall all your apps for you | 14:02 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | on beagle board the graphic chipset is onboard ? | 14:02 |
| timeless_mbp | and you keep your settings | 14:02 |
| andre__ | so, ChangeLog. I just created http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 | 14:02 |
| timeless_mbp | then who cares? | 14:02 |
| Shapeshifter | timeless_mbp: sure | 14:02 |
| timeless_mbp | the apple update model fwiw is to reflash and reinstall apps | 14:02 |
| Shapeshifter | apple is not a reference ;) | 14:02 |
| mece | andre__, thankee-sai! | 14:02 |
| timeless_mbp | apple is unix ;) | 14:02 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | yes | 14:03 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, apple is evil | 14:03 |
| thresh | andre__: nice, thanks! | 14:03 |
| Anidel | Apple is more Unix than Linux | 14:03 |
| Shapeshifter | oh and now I'm positively surprised, the auto-reinstall thingy lets me pick which apps to reinstall | 14:03 |
| andre__ | sure :) | 14:03 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | iphnoe is different from all apple stuffs | 14:03 |
| Shapeshifter | so I can untick openarena not to download 250mb over 3G | 14:03 |
| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: heh | 14:03 |
| frals | andre__: "Fiasco-gen was published in PR1.1.1 SDK" - I guess the SDK was updated? ;) | 14:03 |
| jacquesdptd-mob2 | i'm moreand more seeing as a linux os mobile than an apple os | 14:03 |
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| mece | Shapeshifter, openarena was what made ham updating not work in the first place :) | 14:03 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 14:03 |
| tybollt | Shapeshifter: no, you have to submit the question in writing (hand written) and snailmail it to Nookla. | 14:03 |
| pupnik | is it cool or lame that we are using a system invented in 1969? | 14:04 |
| thresh | icd usb networking is finally in maemotorius, niiiiiice | 14:04 |
| andre__ | frals, not according to the Nokians I talked with. Interesting. Seems there's different info around :) | 14:04 |
| frals | bug #7972 | 14:04 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7972 Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found | 14:04 |
| andre__ | fragment, yeah, I saw it | 14:04 |
| tybollt | konttori_work: is there a changelog for this release? | 14:04 |
| andre__ | oh sorry, frals ^^ | 14:05 |
| andre__ | tybollt, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 for my part | 14:05 |
| mece | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 :D | 14:05 |
| mece | LOL | 14:05 |
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| andre__ | that's only my (public) part though | 14:05 |
| tybollt | jajaja no need to mock me, I do that quite enought myself. :) | 14:05 |
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| mece | so.. bug 6615 fixed. Hmmpf. I thought it was general battery use. I never had this problem. | 14:06 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6615 Battery Dies Under 6 Hours with Very Moderate Use (Static IP?) | 14:06 |
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| mika__ | hi, i'm thinking of buying the nokia n900 with maemo, i know that here there is someone who has it... how is it? what are the pro/cons? | 14:08 |
| andre__ | mece: I'm sorry that your bug was fixed and had a different root ;-)) | 14:08 |
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| andre__ | mika__, you can probably spend hours in http://talk.maemo.org/ reading about people's impressions... :) any specific questions? | 14:08 |
| tybollt | ugh... | 14:09 |
| tybollt | did this update just brick my device or what? :S | 14:09 |
| Guest97655 | mika__: I got one ... and I simply love it ... granted, it's probably the biggest phone in physical shape I'd ever consider ... but maemo5 is great ... the open OS is great ... it works perfect .... but it's more a computer than a phone ... the phone features are not as strong as the rest of the features | 14:09 |
| mika__ | andre__: mmm..ok, i'll look at it, thanks :) most important are if there is something to sync it with kde (kdepim) and what will change with meego | 14:09 |
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| tybollt | halp \o/ | 14:10 |
| tybollt | iz crashink | 14:10 |
| andre__ | meego? shrug. not much. | 14:10 |
| andre__ | kdepim... hmm... don't know | 14:10 |
| mika__ | dazo: how's the touch screen? i mean, is it precise or do you have to tap more than once? | 14:11 |
| Shapeshifter | Mh. This app manager is really slow. I mean, apt is slow already, but this manager keeps "updating" stuff and "reloading" things after every step you make. I guess it's going to get even worse with rpm. | 14:11 |
| tybollt | hmm so does anyone else have a non functioning (just screen flashing in black and the occasional colour) device after update + reboot? | 14:11 |
| Anidel | my N900 load avg is 3.01 and 3.82 the current .. the thumbnailerd 60% CPU.. thanks :( | 14:11 |
| Anidel | yeah I do have plenty of images synched .. but still.. tell me | 14:12 |
| dazo | mika__: well, I've never really used a capacitative touch screen more than I've looked at iPhones a few years ago .... but I don't find any problems with the screen to be honest ... sometimes, I do need to tap an extra time or two, but that's seldom for me | 14:12 |
| Anidel | tell me you're killing my batter, tell me you're making my system unusable.. tell me something | 14:12 |
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| dazo | (probably because my big fingers move too much during the tap) | 14:12 |
| andre__ | mika__, Re MeeGo: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=527251&postcount=87 | 14:12 |
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| Stskeeps | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7757 <- wow | 14:13 |
| povbot` | Bug 7757: wrong cmt-firmware-rx51 (cell modem) version in published firmware? | 14:13 |
| thresh | how do i check if packages is in SDK? | 14:14 |
| thresh | is there any gui | 14:14 |
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| thresh | oh nevermind, found m.o/p | 14:14 |
| thresh | and as i thought, libicd2-dev is not in SDK | 14:14 |
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| Stskeeps | the stuff to make plugins? | 14:15 |
| Stskeeps | it should be | 14:15 |
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| Stskeeps | sure you don't mean icd2-osso-ic-dev? | 14:15 |
| thresh | yes, i'm sure | 14:15 |
| thresh | http://maemo.gitorious.org/icd2-network-modules/libicd-network-usb/blobs/master/debian/control implies it should be there, though | 14:16 |
| X-Fade | thresh: Should be in nokia binaries repo. | 14:16 |
| RST38h | Ok, I seemingly have not updated and do not see the update | 14:16 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Staggered release, are you in the US? | 14:17 |
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| RST38h | X-Fade: .RU but using proxy that places me either into .IE or .US | 14:17 |
| RST38h | What is staggered release? | 14:17 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Well US will be later. | 14:17 |
| RST38h | but I have seen it just moments ago | 14:18 |
| nid0 | proxies wont do anything, it's your product code that matters | 14:18 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Release per region to lower the traffic. | 14:18 |
| lardman | how does the staggered release work out of interest? | 14:18 |
| X-Fade | *peak | 14:18 |
| crashanddie_ | nid0: eh? | 14:18 |
| * RST38h checks by google what region he is in | 14:18 | |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h: use GPS | 14:18 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: I am in .IE | 14:18 |
| crashanddie_ | I'm in .au :( | 14:19 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Could you tell me the exact package name so that I can check with apt-get from command line? | 14:19 |
| * Caesium told you earlier, mp-fremantle-002-pr | 14:19 | |
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| tybollt | RST38h: Myself I am in .FIREFOX | 14:19 |
| Caesium | it's just a meta-package that depends on all the other stuff | 14:19 |
| RST38h | thanks =) | 14:20 |
| * RST38h got carried away at work | 14:20 | |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Depends on who you got your device from. And which region ;) | 14:20 |
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| RST38h | X-Fade: developer device, euro1 | 14:20 |
| Caesium | apt-cache show mp-fremantle-002-pr gives me Version: 3.2010.02-8.002 | 14:20 |
| thresh | X-Fade: still it is not. | 14:20 |
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| X-Fade | RST38h: The mp-fremantle metapackage has different name for certain regions. | 14:20 |
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| X-Fade | RST38h: And even providers :) | 14:21 |
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| RST38h | Unable to locate package | 14:21 |
| Caesium | anything for dpkg -l | grep mp-fremantle? | 14:22 |
| sulx | does anyone have MyFoneKit BT HF with n900? | 14:22 |
| visz | what she said | 14:22 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: mp-fremantle-generic-pr ? | 14:22 |
| RST38h | A moment, checking | 14:22 |
| crashanddie_ | cock... I have about 3k lines of code, and one query that fails... Now how the hell do I find the query? | 14:22 |
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| X-Fade | crashanddie_: Selective commenting? | 14:23 |
| crashanddie_ | X-Fade: in 3k lines of code? | 14:23 |
| RST38h | Caesium: No such thing | 14:23 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie_: put one in the middle. | 14:23 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h: I'm pretty sure Caesium exists | 14:23 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie_: And then split from there ;) | 14:23 |
| Caesium | :D | 14:23 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie_: You will find it soon enough. | 14:23 |
| Caesium | RST38h: strange then, wonder what metapackage you have instead | 14:23 |
| crashanddie_ | X-Fade: dude... It's not a linear file... | 14:23 |
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| RST38h | X-Fade: generic does show up | 14:24 |
| thresh | well, maybe i'm the only one who has it | 14:24 |
| Veggen | mmf. any experiences with last update? feels sluggish, screen doesn't update properly... | 14:24 |
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| X-Fade | RST38h: Then it is not avaible on that mirror yet. | 14:24 |
| Veggen | definitely something wrong. | 14:24 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: I am installing -generic, is it ok? | 14:24 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Just wait, it is a very minor update anyway. | 14:24 |
| thresh | Veggen: so far it's ok here (~25 minutes) | 14:24 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Should I stop downloading generic? | 14:25 |
| Anidel | thumbnailerd still at 50% variable of CPU | 14:25 |
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| Anidel | :/ | 14:25 |
| lbt_ | ooh - new PR today :) | 14:25 |
| thresh | RST38h: apt-get dist-upgrade! | 14:25 |
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| lardman | Anidel: kill it | 14:25 |
| Anidel | lardman, you think it's stuck? | 14:25 |
| lardman | Anidel: yeah | 14:25 |
| Anidel | let's try | 14:25 |
| lardman | I had that on the last release, killed it and it went away | 14:25 |
| RST38h | thresh: Naah, I am too much of a chicken for that =)9 | 14:25 |
| thresh | RST38h: at least it will show you if you have something to ugprade :) | 14:26 |
| Andy80 | guys.... | 14:26 |
| Andy80 | attention when upgrading to 1.1.1 | 14:26 |
| Caesium | dist-upgrade still shows me 4 packages to upgrade even after the 1.1.1 update, weird | 14:26 |
| Andy80 | I got an infinite loop reboot :( | 14:26 |
| Anidel | lardman, it's the second time it happens.. anyway.. it's not sucking up CPU now | 14:26 |
| Caesium | gstreamer0.10-tools maemo-launcher pymaemo-optify python-support .. wonder why they weren't done as part of the other update | 14:26 |
| Andy80 | I had to remove battery and flash it from scratch | 14:26 |
| Anidel | I thought it was working on my huge picture gallery.. but indeed it was stuck | 14:27 |
| konttori_work | dudes, you really should use application manager to make the updates. | 14:27 |
| RST38h | konttori: Application Manager shows me nothing now | 14:27 |
| Andy80 | and now, after the upgrade, it doesn't see the internal MMC :S | 14:27 |
| Caesium | konttori_work: oh I did, I just typed dist-upgrade as a matter of curiousity.. not actually going to do it :) | 14:27 |
| Anidel | Andy80, you flashed and rebooted and it doesn't see it ? | 14:27 |
| Veggen | no infinite reboot loop here, but the n900 is sluggy as hell, I got left-over clutter on screen frequently, etc... | 14:27 |
| RST38h | konttori: Wondering if I should download and install mp-fremantle-generic-pr | 14:27 |
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| Andy80 | Anidel: exactly, now I've rebooted again, let's see... | 14:28 |
| Anidel | Veggen this happened to me sometimes .. reboot, let it reboot quietly and don't use it until it's done loading everything.. | 14:28 |
| Andy80 | now it can see it... | 14:28 |
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| Andy80 | restoring settings from backup.... | 14:29 |
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| Anidel | Andy80, cross your fingers:) | 14:29 |
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| matthew- | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-_rf2jVxxY | 14:30 |
| matthew- | hehe | 14:30 |
| andre__ | WTF do people in the forum always write "Maemo 5 3.2"? where does this weird "3.2" come from? | 14:31 |
| Anidel | 3.2 ???? | 14:32 |
| lbt_ | the keys to the right of "1" ? | 14:32 |
| lardman | andre__: they are in a forum.... | 14:32 |
| Veggen | seems better after reboot. *puh* | 14:32 |
| lardman | or perhaps they are stressing the 32bit nature of the OS ;) | 14:32 |
| Veggen | <---using my n900 as my primary phone, nowadays. I'd hate to go back to my old Nokia. | 14:32 |
| pupnik | I would love to be able to watch ustream.tv on N900 | 14:32 |
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| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 14:33 | |
| timeless_mbp | who files bugs about Browser stealing focus? | 14:33 |
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| * tybollt hands timeless a pink poneh | 14:34 | |
| asj_ | ap manager or something steals focus | 14:34 |
| asj_ | especially when installing apps and you switch away with ctrl-backspace | 14:35 |
| tybollt | I'll file a bug report about the browser + flash b0rking but that's another story | 14:35 |
| tybollt | and silly ad block can't cope | 14:35 |
| mikhas | asj_, the notification banner when an app got installed steals the focus, more specifically | 14:35 |
| tybollt | silly willy ap | 14:35 |
| tybollt | ap | 14:35 |
| asj_ | mikhas: oh ya that's it | 14:35 |
| pupnik | is there a "mlocate" equivalent for maemo5? | 14:35 |
| slonopotamus | yellow bar in app manager steals focus from everything. | 14:35 |
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| pupnik | not just xterm slonopotamus ? | 14:36 |
| tybollt | slonopotamus: that has got to be way way intentional :) | 14:36 |
| g0tcha | hey guys, | 14:36 |
| pupnik | that is way wrong tybollt | 14:36 |
| g0tcha | anyoen has a changelog for the new fw? | 14:36 |
| g0tcha | n900 maemo5 fw | 14:36 |
| pupnik | thought it was a problem with xterm | 14:36 |
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| slonopotamus | pupnik, that is everything :) dunno, haven't tried with other apps | 14:37 |
| pupnik | it was posted. search pr1.2 features/changelog g0tcha | 14:37 |
| tybollt | pupnik: is it /wrong/? Iono, not IMHO | 14:37 |
| tybollt | pupnik is less humble than me, though ;) | 14:38 |
| g0tcha | pupnik, search for that where? | 14:38 |
| wazd | heya all | 14:38 |
| slonopotamus | anyone else experiences _sometimes_ nonworking language switcher in microb? | 14:38 |
| thresh | how am i supposed to install proper fonts to N900? | 14:38 |
| pupnik | it isnt intntional iirc. i cant be arsed to search for the bug | 14:38 |
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| tybollt | pupnik: I fancy that behavior *shrug* | 14:39 |
| * timeless_mbp files bug 9079 | 14:39 | |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9079 Mail steals focus when loading a message after another app is brought to the foreground | 14:39 |
| timeless_mbp | slonopotamus: "language switcher"?? | 14:39 |
| timeless_mbp | tybollt: yeah the banner from app manager is really lame | 14:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i believe that's a frameworks bug | 14:40 |
| timeless_mbp | poke konttori_work to poke someone :) | 14:40 |
| timeless_mbp | (make sure there's a public bug filed before poking people) | 14:40 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp: you may call me lamer, but I don't have a problem w/ it. | 14:40 |
| asj_ | 9079 is a lot less bothersome since it also gets visual focus too, not just input focus | 14:40 |
| timeless_mbp | asj_: true | 14:41 |
| timeless_mbp | but i don't install apps that often | 14:41 |
| timeless_mbp | for some stupid reason i do read mail and use notes | 14:41 |
| timeless_mbp | although that's probably because i'm translating mail | 14:41 |
| Jaffa | lardman: pong | 14:41 |
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| * timeless_mbp wonders what Crazycat is and why it wants to update | 14:42 | |
| asj_ | timeless_mbp: the app installer though gives you no indication why you can't do anything till you swap out | 14:42 |
| timeless_mbp | asj_: oh, i know | 14:42 |
| asj_ | ok :) | 14:42 |
| konttori_work | timeless, hat have I missed? | 14:42 |
| asj_ | timeless_mbp: so my bug is worse than your bug ;p | 14:42 |
| timeless_mbp | asj_: oh, absolutely :) | 14:43 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori_work: i'll let asj gripe | 14:43 |
| * timeless_mbp is busy poking something else | 14:43 | |
| *** cpasjuste is now known as Cpasjuste | 14:43 | |
| asj_ | timeless_mbp: I only wish that was my biggest problem | 14:44 |
| timeless_mbp | asj_: you have konttori_work 's attn for half a minute, don't spoil it | 14:44 |
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| * timeless_mbp ponders | 14:45 | |
| timeless_mbp | wow | 14:45 |
| asj_ | nah, i pitty the maemo group at the moment, I want to be kind to them | 14:45 |
| timeless_mbp | ham can steal focus too | 14:45 |
| tybollt | wasn't that the topic timeless? | 14:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | it just came up saying my catalog list was unhappy | 14:46 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp: or ham <-> golden bar? | 14:46 |
| timeless_mbp | tybollt: well, asj's complaint is when it steals focus w/o popping to top | 14:46 |
| timeless_mbp | because it uses an infobanner | 14:46 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm complaining about window popping to top | 14:46 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp: ack, that's something else :S | 14:46 |
| timeless_mbp | in my case using a dialog | 14:46 |
| tybollt | yes I'm saying I _like_ the popping to top behaviour, ++, keep it ;) | 14:47 |
| timeless_mbp | tybollt: to test, you need: 1. a package to update. 2. a repository to break | 14:47 |
| timeless_mbp | break the repository, ask to update the package, once it gives you the yellow box | 14:47 |
| timeless_mbp | dismiss it and immediately switch to another task | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Me too (steal focus without being visible app-mangler) | 14:47 |
| timeless_mbp | eventually it should swap back complaining about the repository you break | 14:47 |
| tybollt | yes I distinctly remembre having had that | 14:48 |
| tybollt | it's ok | 14:48 |
| pupnik | SpeedEvil: seen that when using anything but xterm? | 14:48 |
| timeless_mbp | can i get you to file it? :) | 14:48 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: i'm using notes mostly | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: yes. fbreader | 14:48 |
| tybollt | if I'm fucking around in HAM I expect it to override my other tasks and grab attention when needed (that's me, others will think I'm nuts) | 14:48 |
| tybollt | mmmmmh nuts... | 14:48 |
| timeless_mbp | but i was actually in Image Viewer this time | 14:48 |
| pupnik | thanks! i am corrected | 14:48 |
| konttori_work | asj_, if you have some issue, just lemme know. But include my name in the comment so that I actually see it. | 14:48 |
| konttori_work | otherwise, I miss it. I'm doing quite many other things atm besides watching this channel | 14:49 |
| asj_ | konttori_work: if I real a issue I'd file a bug report :) | 14:49 |
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| * timeless_mbp rotfl | 14:49 | |
| timeless_mbp | one of my countries is "Error" | 14:49 |
| timeless_mbp | do i get points for that? | 14:49 |
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| konttori_work | bug reports will get eventually fixed, but if you need something still for pr1.2, ping me | 14:49 |
| konttori_work | as we are about to close it any day now. | 14:50 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori_work: oh right | 14:50 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp: Very dogbert'ish points if so :P | 14:50 |
| timeless_mbp | we have a bug in skype that *really* needs to be fixed | 14:50 |
| asj_ | konttori_work: thanks :) | 14:50 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori_work: we forgot to file it | 14:50 |
| *** hrw|gone is now known as hrw | 14:50 | |
| hrw | morning | 14:50 |
| * tybollt happy camper I'm not using skyper | 14:51 | |
| pupnik | hrw did you look at seqretary for alarms? | 14:51 |
| * hrw got to the computer after few days of being offline and lot of things happened | 14:51 | |
| hrw | n900 dropped, maemo dropped etc | 14:52 |
| hrw | lot of posts 'I will go android' etc | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | hrw: My n900 was dropped. | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | hrw: only off the sofa onto carpet though. | 14:53 |
| pupnik | many silly posts (incl ine) | 14:53 |
| tybollt | My mom dropped me a lot as a kid | 14:53 |
| tybollt | :( | 14:53 |
| hrw | ;D | 14:53 |
| g0tcha | hmm whats this "meego" thing everyone is talking about? | 14:53 |
| g0tcha | is maemo going to change or something? | 14:53 |
| tybollt | pupnik: shrug... initial reactions are like that... people will come around :) | 14:53 |
| hrw | but I can understand why maemo got dropped in favour of meego. | 14:53 |
| w00t | g0tcha: moblin and maemo, are merging into meego | 14:53 |
| tybollt | hrw: what do you like the name 'meego'? | 14:54 |
| g0tcha | w00t, why? | 14:54 |
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| hrw | it is simpler to develop 10 apps instead of develop more of them and full base system | 14:54 |
| g0tcha | is meego anything special? | 14:54 |
| hrw | tybollt: que? | 14:54 |
| g0tcha | tybollt, the name meego sounds lame tbh | 14:54 |
| w00t | g0tcha: it's what both communities make of it | 14:54 |
| tybollt | hrw: the new name for the project... 'meego' | 14:54 |
| SpeedEvil | g0tcha: meego is a collaboration between intel moblin and maemo. | 14:54 |
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| tybollt | and nookla | 14:55 |
| g0tcha | so is our N900 becoming obselete very fast or what? | 14:55 |
| hrw | tybollt: for me they could choose anyname - it is just a branding | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 14:55 |
| g0tcha | with this meego thing? | 14:55 |
| g0tcha | SpeedEvil, really??? | 14:55 |
| g0tcha | wtf | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | really. | 14:55 |
| w00t | SpeedEvil: um, say what | 14:55 |
| hrw | Jaffa: mwn ;) thx | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | what | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | http://meego.com/about/overview/big-merge-message-intel-and-nokia | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | video | 14:56 |
| hrw | Jaffa: during fosdem some nokia guys rumoured about mms+videocalls in pr1.2 - but now... will 1.2 ever be released? | 14:56 |
| w00t | crying that all hope is lost a day after the announcement is a bit ..premature, I think, to say the last | 14:56 |
| Jaffa | hrw: Yes, PR 1.2 will be released | 14:56 |
| X-Fade | hrw: There was a 1.1.1 release even today. Don't worry ;) | 14:56 |
| hrw | X-Fade: what in 1.1.1? | 14:57 |
| X-Fade | hrw: Athough MMS in 1.2? No way. | 14:57 |
| w00t | fMMS! <3 | 14:57 |
| pupnik | actually merging mobile distros is useful for us in principle | 14:57 |
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| X-Fade | pupnik: It actually being a distro even more. | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | MMS support is clearly beyond the wit of man. Only aliens could do it. | 14:58 |
| w00t | pupnik: it's more than useful when you consider the X and kernel expertise that intel can help offer | 14:58 |
| hrw | pupnik: agreed | 14:58 |
| thresh | SpeedEvil: not talking about USSD. | 14:58 |
| thresh | which even aliens cant master yet | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | there is a ussd-widget I though | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | t | 14:58 |
| hrw | w00t: X yes, kernel? this is rather left for vendors to care when it comes to phones | 14:59 |
| thresh | made by an overmind. | 14:59 |
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| zerojay | Wow, that 3d rollercoaster game was VERY impressive. | 14:59 |
| rom1dep | hi there ! I've got a maemo update available for my n900, but hildon-appinstaller says that I need some nokia connectivity apps to do such update... why ? | 14:59 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: weird | 14:59 |
| pupnik | zerojay: where? | 14:59 |
| timeless_mbp | ari's comment about "Linux is honest" at around 2:35 | 14:59 |
| w00t | hrw: for some, yes, but not for all.. I imagine there will be a fair bit of collaboration over time | 14:59 |
| zerojay | pupnik: http://url4.eu/1PmHX | 15:00 |
| timeless_mbp | rom1dep: typically that either means you don't have enough space, or you have a conflicting package | 15:00 |
| timeless_mbp | rom1dep: mece has a script that will help w/ the former | 15:00 |
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| tybollt | ari has a very "visionary"esque way of writing... frankly I can't quite stand it :-| | 15:00 |
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| hrw | w00t: nokia shown in past that they lack skills to push support for their hardware into mainline | 15:01 |
| tybollt | no offence intended | 15:01 |
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| rom1dep | timeless_mbp: and if i go throught apt-get upgrade, what'll happen ? | 15:02 |
| hrw | w00t: 770 or n8x0 were never supported in vanilla kernel during their 'on market' time | 15:02 |
| * SpeedEvil has had bad experiances with visionary leaders. See OpenMoko. | 15:02 | |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: That project went promptly in the shitter right? They are doing what these days? | 15:02 |
| timeless_mbp | rom1dep: if you don't use the script that mece evolved? | 15:03 |
| timeless_mbp | you'll run out of space | 15:03 |
| w00t | hrw: if you keep focusing on the past, you'll never get *anywhere*. | 15:03 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: thankfully nokia doesn't have visionary leaders :) | 15:03 |
| tybollt | w00t: which is exactly what the moderates want >:) | 15:03 |
| mece | rom1dep, http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space#Use_a_script_to_move_things_from_.2F_to_.2Fhome.2Fopt.2F | 15:03 |
| w00t | hrw: saying 'it won't happen because it has never happened' is a great way to kill off a good thing before it has a chance | 15:03 |
| rom1dep | mece: \o/ | 15:03 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: please change 'make it executable' to be a box explaining how to do that :) | 15:04 |
| rom1dep | timeless_mbp: mece: thanks I'll have a look | 15:04 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: The problem fundamentally was that in mid 2008 there was a functional software stack. It was OK. It made calls, it had a few bugs, it could have been faster. With 6 months polishing it was definately suitable for a 'hacker user' release by xmas 2008. | 15:04 |
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| tybollt | right so? | 15:04 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: So - several weeks before it got to the 'almost stable' state - the chairman pops up at a conference - saying 'something really!!!!!!!!!!1 coool!!! is coming!@!!!! | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: And they decide to completely revamp the UI | 15:05 |
| jukey | text | 15:05 |
| jukey | re | 15:05 |
| jukey | flow | 15:05 |
| jukey | :) | 15:05 |
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| hrw | w00t: n900 is my 3rd linux device from nokia. previous ones still use original systems cause getting something free and fresh is nearly impossible. why should I think that n900 will be different? | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: Which of course - takes ages. Then as it's sort-of-working - after about a year - chairman pops up at a conference - says 'something really cool is coming!' - change to Qt. | 15:06 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil:I recall some about shifting focus to another device even before finalizing the first one? | 15:06 |
| hrw | w00t: there is still no access to n900 kernel tree | 15:06 |
| w00t | hrw: great, let's all pack up and go home and buy an iphone | 15:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | tybollt: That too. The first device was fundamentally OK. It had some minor tweaks needed. It was a functional phone. The second device was supposed to be all singing and dancing with a graphics accel. But the original 200MHz device with a dumb framebuffer with no accell at all - and the 400MHz device with a graphics accel - turn out - after lots and lots of effort coding for the GPU - as a wash. | 15:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | tybollt: The graphics accel was _bad_. | 15:07 |
| hrw | w00t: i think that next 3-4 months will show | 15:07 |
| w00t | hrw: that I do agree with | 15:08 |
| w00t | hrw: but panning stuff before it even happens, while easy, is just not a proactive approach | 15:08 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: where are they today though? ceased entirely or? | 15:08 |
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| pupnik | iphone is overpriced jewelry. but many people buy jewelry | 15:09 |
| * timeless_mbp rotfl | 15:09 | |
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| tybollt | what now tim e less? | 15:09 |
| timeless_mbp | root@timeless-tablet:/# reboot | 15:09 |
| tybollt | ja? | 15:10 |
| hrw | "Will you see MeeGo on your N900? I don’t think so. Should you get excited about MeeGo? Yes, but now’s not the time for that." = thats nice quote from http://maemo.org/midcom-permalink-4754ef661a4511df86465719f89f43da43da post | 15:10 |
| timeless_mbp | -bash: /sbin/reboot: Input/output error | 15:10 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp: meh :P | 15:10 |
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| * timeless_mbp kills timeless-tablet | 15:11 | |
| satmd | :( | 15:11 |
| timeless_mbp | satmd: it's a vm | 15:12 |
| * satmd revives timeless-zombie | 15:12 | |
| timeless_mbp | on a laptop whose hdd is dying | 15:12 |
| satmd | and I was making a joke :P | 15:12 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: Basically sitting on a slowly decreasing pile of old hardware that they're selling. Also went sideways into the wikireader. Which was a rugged wikipedia reader. Which was good - but nothing spectacular. | 15:12 |
| timeless_mbp | heh, 'resolvconf: Error: /etc/resov.conf must be a symlink' | 15:12 |
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| Shapeshifter | soo, the changelog? I can't find it. | 15:15 |
| Shapeshifter | except Qt | 15:16 |
| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: it was listed repeatedly in this channel while you were alive | 15:16 |
| Shapeshifter | timeless_mbp: okay thanks | 15:16 |
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| tybollt | Shapeshifter: what about qt - nothing about it in the changelog | 15:18 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, done. | 15:18 |
| tybollt | or you getting at the harmattan pics? | 15:18 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 15:19 | |
| * timeless_mbp wonders how PIPE works in apt dependencies | 15:19 | |
| hrw | "Auto-rotation (portrait/landscape) is now supported via window-flag, no more manual D-Bus usage required" - looks like I will like newer Qt/maemo more | 15:21 |
| tybollt | thks | 15:22 |
| tybollt | which may indeed pull down on the port/land related bugs | 15:22 |
| timeless_mbp | hrw: ooh, there's a dbus api for roation? | 15:23 |
| tybollt | I had a massive one (required reboot :) just during lunch today when showing the device to my colleagues... People got way irked :) | 15:23 |
| marienz | timeless_mbp: the "or" dependencies kind of pipe? | 15:23 |
| timeless_mbp | yea | 15:23 |
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| marienz | timeless_mbp: I have recently found out that "it depends", specifically on if you use aptitude or apt-get (or something else?) to install the package | 15:23 |
| timeless_mbp | marienz: heh | 15:24 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: for accelettion orientation | 15:24 |
| LuciusMare | Anybody else noticing the "keypress sent twice" bug on vncviewer? | 15:24 |
| timeless_mbp | hrw: i need a way to force portrait and then force landscape | 15:24 |
| timeless_mbp | will dbus let me do that? | 15:24 |
| marienz | timeless_mbp: the dep is satisfied if any of the packages in the or is installed. apt-get picks the first one if none of them is installed yet. aptitude does something more complicated (afaik roughly: tries them all and picks the least "disruptive" based on some metric, like how many extra packages would be installed) | 15:24 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: when you listen on dbus you get portrait/landscape and face up/down messages | 15:24 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: use dbus-monitor or mdbus2 on system bus and rotate n900 few times | 15:25 |
| timeless_mbp | hrw: i don't want to actually change the device | 15:25 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm software | 15:25 |
| timeless_mbp | i need the screen to change orientation | 15:25 |
| konttori_work | wohoo! nice apps coming soon http://www.youtube.com/nokiaconversations#p/u/0/K7lHPX_iHKs | 15:25 |
| timeless_mbp | because if i don't force it to do that twice, the screen ends up looking awful | 15:25 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: andto force orientation I do not know - I use same code as was in Qt 4.6 examples/maemo5/rotation/ | 15:25 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm generally /bin/sh not something fancy, i don't really have a 'window' :) | 15:26 |
| timeless_mbp | marienz: so... | 15:26 |
| timeless_mbp | what i have is a package A which used to depend on package B | 15:26 |
| timeless_mbp | package B is somewhat obsoleted by a package C in a newer version | 15:26 |
| Jaffa | konttori_work: Congrats on PR1.1.1. Is there any info yet on how Ovi's doing paid content? | 15:27 |
| timeless_mbp | the user only installs Package A. | 15:27 |
| timeless_mbp | Package C is part of the system and upgrades randomly | 15:27 |
| konttori_work | Jaffa, plain old .deb files | 15:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i want to release a newer package A which will result in package B being uninstalled if there's a new enough package C | 15:27 |
| timeless_mbp | but if there isn't a new enough package C, then i want to install package B (a dependency) | 15:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i wrote depends C (>= ...) | B | 15:28 |
| marienz | timeless_mbp: I don't know how to do that yet. I think you'd normally express the uninstall part of that by having C replace B. | 15:28 |
| timeless_mbp | marienz: yeah, but C doesn't know about B | 15:28 |
| Jaffa | konttori_work: And is it using per-user virtual repos or something else? | 15:28 |
| timeless_mbp | C is a buggy or non buggy system package | 15:28 |
| marienz | timeless_mbp: I don't know if you can express the uninstall part then. | 15:28 |
| timeless_mbp | B is a patch to repair the buggy system package | 15:28 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, teh system notification area hasn't resurrected itself yet | 15:29 |
| timeless_mbp | isn't it supposed to be life guarded? | 15:29 |
| pupnik | ogl es 1.1 !? whoa! | 15:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | pupnik: the description's lame | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp | it's more like "there are various bad version labels for an opengles package | 15:30 |
| RST38h | Installed. | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp | this sort of fixes them, maybe" | 15:30 |
| RST38h | Yahoo | 15:30 |
| * RST38h still wants a preservable reflow switch in the MicroB. Who should I bribe? | 15:31 | |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: babu | 15:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | heh | 15:31 |
| tybollt | heh I used to have a female friend nicknamed babu, so that sounds awkward ;) | 15:32 |
| timeless_mbp | someone's username had a '.' in it, and that broke accounting :) | 15:32 |
| pupnik | i need a basement full of coders for ports | 15:32 |
| pupnik | anybody want to live rent free: :) | 15:33 |
| tybollt | "will hack for food" | 15:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | pupnik: see www.nmfs.noaa.gov/mb/sk/pdf/Report_18.pdf | 15:36 |
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| * crashanddie_ tries not throwing up | 15:38 | |
| hrw | In order to make the application auto-rotate depending on the current device orientation, Qt::WA_Maemo5AutoOrientation must be set on a top-level widget. | 15:38 |
| hrw | Note: The device's rotation sensor will be enabled when auto-orientation is switched on, which will drain extra battery power. | 15:38 |
| hrw | ~hail Qt 4.6.2 | 15:38 |
| * infobot bows down to Qt 4.6.2 and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" | 15:38 | |
| SpeedEvil | umm | 15:38 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm sure it has a threshold reporter somewhere | 15:39 |
| crashanddie_ | ~burn Qt 4.6.2 | 15:39 |
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| * infobot pours gasoline all over Qt 4.6.2, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 15:39 | |
| SpeedEvil | which means that doesn't have to be true | 15:39 |
| * SpeedEvil needs to reread the datasheet | 15:39 | |
| pupnik | SpeedEvil: saved | 15:40 |
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| * crashanddie_ just created 2 twitter accounts :./ | 15:40 | |
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| mece | nok Q/A on twitter right now btw. http://tweetchat.com/room/NokiaMWC | 15:42 |
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| thresh | how totally impractical this link is | 15:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | Hmm - yes. It can interrupt on low and high accelleration thresholds - programmable - in each axes. So you can setup the accel so it doesn't interrupt unless it's moved 45 degrees out of the current orientation | 15:44 |
| jacekowski | i've created flickr account | 15:44 |
| jacekowski | just because there is no imageshack support | 15:45 |
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| mece | jacekowski, pixelpipe has imageshack | 15:46 |
| RST38h | pixelpipe wants to register with them | 15:47 |
| RST38h | screw them. | 15:47 |
| RST38h | on the other hand, picasa support has been just added, so I am a happy camper =) | 15:47 |
| mece | RST38h, you can use ovi or twitter account to login to pixelpipe | 15:48 |
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| * RST38h has no ovi or twitter accounts either | 15:49 | |
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| mece | RST38h, well I guess you're out of luck there then :) | 15:49 |
| pupnik | very cool SpeedEvil. now lets trigger a voice recorder with that | 15:49 |
| * RST38h keeps number of accounts minimal, for gigienic reasons | 15:49 | |
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| mece | RST38h, is gigienic really a word? | 15:50 |
| RST38h | mece: google, will ya? | 15:50 |
| mece | RST38h, google says no. | 15:50 |
| RST38h | mece: make a sacrifice. | 15:50 |
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| crashanddie_ | RST38h: funny how h and g are close to one anothe reh? | 15:51 |
| TMM | hi all! I have a short question: How customizable is the maemo implementation on the N900? Can I remove the non-free software that I don't want to have on my phone such as the flash player? | 15:51 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h: I figured that one out -- I noticed T and G were pretty close too -- when I was writing an email to my team, finishing in: Thanks, regards! | 15:52 |
| TMM | can I replace the entire OS with a self-build version should I want to? | 15:52 |
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| Stskeeps | TMM: we run android and mer on it | 15:53 |
| Stskeeps | so, yes | 15:53 |
| TMM | awesome | 15:53 |
| crashanddie_ | hang on | 15:53 |
| crashanddie_ | Stskeeps: how usable is android? | 15:53 |
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| crashanddie_ | Stskeeps: does phone work? 3G? Wifi? bluetooth? | 15:54 |
| crashanddie_ | sound? | 15:54 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: how is the wireless connectivity accessed? does the thing just have a CDMA modem internally? | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie_: dunno | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | TMM: it's HSDPA, no CDMA | 15:54 |
| crashanddie_ | Stskeeps: what about mer? | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | TMM: don't expect to run a fully 'free' system on it and you should be fine. | 15:54 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: I meant the extended set of hayes modem commands :P | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | TMM: ISI | 15:54 |
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| Stskeeps | crashanddie_: wifi works, bluetooth should work, but anything mer is kinda in shreds atm :) | 15:54 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: do you need to run non-free software to access the 3G functionality? | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | TMM: there's a ofono plugin | 15:55 |
| hrw | Stskeeps: android on n900? available finally or only as YT videos? | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | hrw: he postedp atches | 15:55 |
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| TMM | Stskeeps: awesome | 15:55 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: well, what bits do I need that are non-free then? | 15:55 |
| hrw | Stskeeps: still android 1.5/1.6 based only? | 15:55 |
| jacekowski | i don't know but when i see somebody having problems with non-free software it makes me wanna kill somebody | 15:56 |
| marienz | eep? | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | TMM: feel free to browse my openness report, http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html | 15:56 |
| TMM | jacekowski: well, that's a very positive outlook. I don't care what you do and don't run. I just don't use non-free software. I don't see how that would make you want to kill me | 15:56 |
| jacekowski | because you are a fanatic | 15:57 |
| jacekowski | and i don't like fanatics | 15:57 |
| jacekowski | they are dangerous | 15:57 |
| hrw | jacekowski: so you are fanatic too | 15:57 |
| TMM | jacekowski: at what point did I say "You need to stop using non-free software?" I didn't | 15:57 |
| trbs | sigh | 15:57 |
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| TMM | jacekowski: and if you don't want freedom from your soft and hardware, that is entirely fine by me. But I demand freedom. | 15:58 |
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| alterego | Erm, what are you two arguing about? #debian is over there ->> | 15:58 |
| TMM | alterego: when someone says they want to kill me over anything, I tend to get a bit offended | 15:58 |
| jacekowski | all that debian approach is bad for whole floss movement | 15:59 |
| hrw | jacekowski: you are 15th? | 15:59 |
| alterego | TMM: he's obviously a bit of an idiot, why can't you just ignore him? | 16:00 |
| alterego | I mean seriously, he's not serious. | 16:00 |
| alterego | And this isn't really isn't the place for fundamentalist FOSS philosophy. | 16:01 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: that doesn't buy you anything other than not having 100Hz interrupts. - a little battery saving | 16:01 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: I'm not entirely sure how to read those numbers. Say I basically want a Webbrowser and 3G. Can I have that without non-free bits? | 16:01 |
| doubleukay | allllright. pr 1.1.1 update just popped up "Operation failed" and continued anyway. hmm.. | 16:01 |
| jacekowski | TMM: no | 16:01 |
| Stskeeps | TMM: go see the components | 16:01 |
| jacekowski | TMM: 3G is not going to happen without non-free | 16:01 |
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| konttori_work | Jaffa, no, it's just plain deb file. Session locked download of the deb, then installation through HAM as usual. | 16:02 |
| alterego | TMM: unless you tether via bluetooth to a closed seperate handset ;) | 16:02 |
| konttori_work | so, server protected download. | 16:02 |
| Jaffa | konttori_work: Ah, interesting. | 16:02 |
| TMM | alterego: I'm not asking these questions to discuss my philosophy, I just need to know these things before I can decide on a purchase :) | 16:02 |
| Jaffa | konttori_work: Does that mean no auto-updates then? | 16:02 |
| jacekowski | alterego: nah, bluetooth radio needs a propertiary firmware afair | 16:03 |
| Andy80 | retoric question: a f***** changelog is available for PR 1.1.1 :D ??? | 16:03 |
| jacekowski | TMM: there is no completly free phone | 16:03 |
| jacekowski | TMM: even openmoko have binary drivers for radios | 16:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: nope. | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: there is a seperate core for the GSM radio | 16:04 |
| Stskeeps | Andy80: yes, on wiki | 16:04 |
| alterego | Yeah, cellular modems are very closed. You wont find a handset with an open one. Just look for a spec on any GSM readio. | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: with its own firmware (not running linux) | 16:04 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: propertiary firmware | 16:04 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: I'm not entirely sure on this : Telephony/GPRS <-- is that just the software component to interface with a hayes compatible component on the phone, or does it actually implement the driver for it. | 16:04 |
| Andy80 | Stskeeps: can you link, please? | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Completely open-source user-editable-source cellular radios would actually be illegal to sell. | 16:04 |
| alterego | TMM hayes is an illusion bought on by a driver that talks proprietary and exports that interface. | 16:05 |
| TMM | alterego: there are phones where the 3G stack is abstracted behind a software layer running on a separate processor, and you can talk to it using free software. | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | TMM: the phone module in the n900 is not an 'AT' modem - it has a driver which can make it act like this. | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | thi... | 16:05 |
| alterego | TMMwhat's the difference with that and talking to the nokia csd hayes interface? | 16:05 |
| TMM | alterego: I realize that, but I'm ok with it running separately somewhere :P | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: you will not find any phone at all not running nonproprietory firmware. | 16:06 |
| jacekowski | TMM: but what's a difference | 16:06 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: and very, very, very few computers. | 16:06 |
| TMM | alterego: at least the proprietary bits won't be a practical problem when mucking around with the software on the phone itself. | 16:06 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: i'm just wondering how big would be a market for completly free phone | 16:06 |
| alterego | TMM: well, they're not with the N900, | 16:06 |
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| Stskeeps | Andy80: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 | 16:06 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: almost zero. | 16:07 |
| TMM | alterego: so I don't need to run some special proprietary daemon on the phone that pins me to a specific libc or other shit like that? | 16:07 |
| doubleukay | hooray, I've bricked my phone after the update. phone restarts after the boot video. | 16:07 |
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| Stskeeps | luke-jr: i think i've found you a friend | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: plus, it'd be illegal to sell in many countries. (if the user can edit the firmware of the modems) | 16:07 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: USRP + battery + making it little bit smaller | 16:07 |
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| alterego | TMM, well, how about a chroot? :P | 16:08 |
| jacekowski | and sell it as fully open source phone | 16:08 |
| TMM | alterego: I can for now live with having to upload a proprietary blob to some processor if I can then forget about it... some pragmatisy is required, sadly | 16:08 |
| jacekowski | mhm | 16:08 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: And that would be illegal to sell in the UK. With actual jailtime. | 16:08 |
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| tybollt | doubleukay: tried NSU? | 16:08 |
| jacekowski | that still leaves propertiary hardware | 16:08 |
| Bluewind | can /usr/share/fonts be moved to /opt or is that needed while booting? | 16:08 |
| doubleukay | tybollt: not yet. reading how I can recover this. | 16:08 |
| tybollt | doubleukay: I'd say go for NSU mate | 16:08 |
| TMM | alterego: well... do I need to, or not? :) | 16:08 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: you can transmit legally up to couple nanowatts legally | 16:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Not functional for GSM. | 16:09 |
| alterego | TMM, I think in this case, yes, I'll just check though ... | 16:09 |
| doubleukay | tybollt: thanks.. guess I can kick myself for not backing up first :) | 16:09 |
| tybollt | doubleukay: if NSU works you'll still have all of /home and such left | 16:09 |
| jacekowski | TMM: you know that hardware that n900 is using os propertiary | 16:09 |
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| tybollt | doubleukay: hence - no need for backup | 16:09 |
| doubleukay | tybollt: oh I would? great! | 16:10 |
| jacekowski | TMM: and there is million patents on it | 16:10 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: also - the FM transmitters are - in most jurisdictions - specially legalised. An intentional unlicensed transmitter on GSM can't emit that much. | 16:10 |
| tybollt | doubleukay: ya | 16:10 |
| tybollt | doubleukay: just don't come after me w/ pitchfork and shovel when it doesn't work for you :P | 16:10 |
| jacekowski | well, GSM can be implemented as FM radio | 16:10 |
| jacekowski | 900MHz fm radio | 16:10 |
| doubleukay | I will try not to ;) | 16:10 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: no, it can't. | 16:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: GSM is not FM | 16:11 |
| jacekowski | it's PSK | 16:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: and to be more clear - broadcast band FM transmitters are specially legalised. Other frequencies are not. | 16:11 |
| jacekowski | and if you can alter frequencies quickly you could transmit PSK with FM | 16:11 |
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| jacekowski | so you would change frequency to 0.00001Hz for 1/4T of original frequency | 16:12 |
| Shrik3 | + the internal FM radio is (afaik by law) required to be reeeally low powered | 16:12 |
| jacekowski | which would result in phase shift | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: yes, however anyone that would claim you are in fact trasmitting FM as a result is an idiot. | 16:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: I know - and have actually implemented such as scheme. | 16:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: simulation only - but... | 16:12 |
| alterego | TMM: you could try bugging Nokia for a static build of libisi and pnatd :) | 16:13 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC there have ben comments from nokia that they don't mind people running the binaries on the n900 under different OSs | 16:14 |
| jacekowski | mhm | 16:14 |
| jacekowski | GSM is FSK | 16:14 |
| jacekowski | so it could be transmitted with FM | 16:14 |
| jacekowski | it's CDMA that's PSK | 16:15 |
| jacekowski | or maybe wifi is psk | 16:15 |
| SpeedEvil | fundamentally, there is no reason you could not put it in a chroot. | 16:15 |
| SpeedEvil | You can transmit any waveform with FM. | 16:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | This does not make the transmitted waveform FM. | 16:16 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: my point exactly, a seperate chroot with all the proprietary blobs in :P | 16:16 |
| kristof78 | Anyone from Belgium? | 16:16 |
| alterego | Or, port Linux to the DSP. (bahahaha) | 16:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Much like you can draw any picture with an etch-a-sketch - this does not make the resulting picture of an etch-a-sketch | 16:16 |
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| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: GSM is FM | 16:17 |
| koivula | it's GDSM | 16:18 |
| koivula | oops. not #nethack | 16:18 |
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| ShadowJK | "corpses of maemo and moblin line route" | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: yes - and this is irrlevant - as I pointed out a while back - only FM broadcast band low-power-transmitters are legal in many places. - as intentional emitters. Any transmission in the GSM band is not in FM broadcast band, unless you're going really, really fast. | 16:21 |
| ShadowJK | thereg knows how to write headlines :) | 16:21 |
| * SpeedEvil hits koivula with a wide-angle disintegration beam. | 16:21 | |
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| Justus | hi | 16:22 |
| TriztFromWork | has someone the url to the fixes in the latest update? | 16:22 |
| Justus | I hope I'm right here *g* I have a minor problem with fbreader on the n900 I can't find a way to scroll with my fingers, anyone here who could help me? I feel pretty stupid right now and I don't find any solution on the web | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Justus: go into settings | 16:23 |
| Shapeshifter | TriztFromWork: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Justus: you're looking for one on the righthandside of the settings tab list. | 16:23 |
| Justus | SpeedEvil: Preferences -> Scrolling? | 16:24 |
| SpeedEvil | it's called something like 'touch pressure' | 16:24 |
| SpeedEvil | set both entries to about 5 | 16:24 |
| TriztFromWork | Shapeshifter; thanks | 16:24 |
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| TMM | alterego: so, those are the proprietary bits then? libisi and pnatd are required for the 3g modem to function? | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | look at ofono.. | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | it has isimodem plugin | 16:25 |
| hrw | basically if you want to make alternative OS for n900 then check oFono instead of maemo5 phone stack | 16:25 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: I'm just not clear on what bits are and aren't free software... ofono itself is free software apparently... but that doesn't say much it seems | 16:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Justus: no | 16:26 |
| alterego | TMM, yes. libisi hasa closed API which pnatd uses, pnatd implements hayes to libisi functionality, I presume libisi talks to the hardware. | 16:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Justus: press teh dot on the righthandside of the tabs to scroll all the way to 'maemo' | 16:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Justus: minimal stylus pressure set to 0, max to 6 | 16:26 |
| Justus | good lord! thank you so much SpeedEvil | 16:27 |
| Justus | I was agitated to the point of shouting and screaming *sigh* | 16:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Justus: you also want to go to 'indicator' - and disable scrolling - otherwise when you hit it you move randomly throughout the book | 16:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Justus: you know the 'zoom' buttons also scroll? | 16:28 |
| Justus | nope, now I do XD | 16:28 |
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| TMM | http://ofono.org/documentation <--- so.. that picture seems to suggest that 'isi' functionality is provided as GPL licensed bits... I'm completely confused now :P | 16:28 |
| satmd | hmmm, my device is coming up with a weird BMC... initialization configuration filename | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | TMM: it is, in ofono | 16:29 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: ok, so with ofono, I don't need proprietary bits then? | 16:29 |
| satmd | ok, found.... hidden within the bluetooth settings | 16:30 |
| satmd | that gotta be moved | 16:30 |
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| TMM | Stskeeps: sorry if I seem to be going on circles, I'm just a tad confused about the workings of the n900 3g stack and how it interacts with maemo | 16:30 |
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| Stskeeps | TMM: kernel interfaces are open and ofono has a open implementation | 16:31 |
| SpeedEvil | TMM: There is the 3g modem. This runs its own OS - which you can't touch. There is then a kernel driver which is open, and talks to a userspace driver - which is closed. All userspace talks to this driver to get it to do phone stuff. | 16:31 |
| TMM | ah, ok. That sounds acceptable. without the userspace driver that is. But ofono takes on that responsibility | 16:32 |
| SpeedEvil | The modem also runs the GPS | 16:32 |
| wizkoder | Does meego mean that maemo will not run on arm processors anymore??? | 16:32 |
| SpeedEvil | wizkoder: no. | 16:33 |
| alterego | wizkoder: read meego.com and then ask. | 16:33 |
| TMM | Stskeeps, SpeedEvil: thanks a lot for clearing that up for me | 16:33 |
| wizkoder | I am there. reading :-) | 16:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Intel has infact sold ARM processors. | 16:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | (though they sold that division) | 16:33 |
| alterego | Has anyone actually tried building ofono for the N900? | 16:34 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: if you don't mind : Is the Xorg driver free software? | 16:34 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: your report list a '3%' non-freeness | 16:34 |
| alterego | Looks like it has. | 16:34 |
| Arif | oo | 16:35 |
| Arif | a maemo update... | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | TMM: GLES drivers | 16:35 |
| TMM | ow, I can live without those | 16:35 |
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| alterego | TMM, right now, you can use X with the framebuffer for OMAP, but the OpenGL ES driver is not open (yet) | 16:35 |
| Arif | is there a changelog? | 16:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: where is this awesome report? | 16:35 |
| Justus | ok, again thank you bigtime SpeedEvil! :) | 16:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Justus: np | 16:35 |
| matthew- | http://www.goldmansachs666.com/ | 16:35 |
| matthew- | lol | 16:35 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: ow, I see you can click through the report. Sorry, I didn't realize that. My apologies | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html | 16:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Thanks! | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | please read through explanation and then jump to report | 16:36 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: any brick prevention in the N900? :) Or is there a definite way to completely hose it? | 16:36 |
| hrw | ok, have a nice est of day | 16:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: awesome - thanks! | 16:36 |
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| Stskeeps | TMM: don't toy with NOLO | 16:36 |
| SpeedEvil | TMM: dropping it in the toilet. | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | or overclock it | 16:36 |
| TMM | ok, but if you keep the bootloader in tact, you can't brick it? | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | and don't mess up CAL area either, i thin | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | k | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | but that's about it | 16:37 |
| TMM | cal? | 16:37 |
| wizkoder | Okay, found that question in the faq there. I am wondering why rpm was chosen? Isn't deb better? | 16:37 |
| X-Fade | And the modem too ;) | 16:37 |
| alterego | wizkoder: #meego | 16:37 |
| X-Fade | Don't mess up your cellmo ;) | 16:37 |
| Shrik3 | wizkoder: no one knows, but that's just the way it is | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: signed afaik, so difficult | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | TMM: an area containing partition table and such for NAND | 16:38 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Yeah, but if you want a list, you need to add it :) | 16:38 |
| alterego | I'd imagine it's because Intel wanted to contribute _something_ ^.^ | 16:38 |
| TMM | well, alright then. I'm getting a N900 then, seems I can make it work the way I want it | 16:38 |
| alterego | TMM: you're british right? | 16:38 |
| TMM | Dutch | 16:38 |
| alterego | Ah, my mistake. | 16:38 |
| TMM | that's ok | 16:38 |
| alterego | I was wondering if I knew you :P | 16:39 |
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| Stskeeps | TMM: just promise us you'll look into the situation and what can be done constructively before complaining day in day out :P | 16:39 |
| TMM | alterego: you might. I've been trudging around in these circles for a long time :) | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages | 16:39 |
| slonopotamus | nooo... again that stupid link | 16:40 |
| * slonopotamus never understood 'legacy' reason | 16:40 | |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: i'm doing a revamp of that page soon anyway | 16:40 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: ow... I need proprietary software for the battery? | 16:40 |
| SpeedEvil | TMM: at the moment, yes. | 16:41 |
| slonopotamus | 'we are abandoning this and don't want you to touch it ever too' | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | TMM: sad, but so it is | 16:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Someone needs to read the kernel driver and flip the right bit. | 16:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I've glanced over it - it looks plausible | 16:41 |
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| alterego | Is ofono set for Harmattan? | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: but who's to blame if you cause someone bodily harm by exploding battery? | 16:42 |
| TMM | if you muck with the software, you get to keep all the pieces... it seems to me | 16:42 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, bme argumentation doesn't work. | 16:43 |
| alterego | I have insurance :) | 16:43 |
| alterego | Does software hacks count as accidental? :) | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: the zeroth level of protection is inside the battery. The first is inside the PSU chip - the second is inside the kernel. | 16:44 |
| wizkoder | People at #meego hate it if you ask why deb is not used ^^ | 16:44 |
| alterego | wizkoder: I don't think you'll find anyone here that gives a crap either. | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | wizkoder: yes, of course - it is the most common question | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: the BME thing - as far as I've read and understood the code so far has only covenience functions. It may also slightly increase the usable lifetime of the battery. | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | the BME-userspace | 16:45 |
| alterego | wizkoder: just read the site, that's the part from moblin. | 16:45 |
| wizkoder | Stskeeps: Most open source programmers support debian. SO of course that is a question that will be raised all the time | 16:45 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: so... to have a free system I'd need to get an X server on the thing, install/port ofono and use some minimal gui version of mozilla? | 16:45 |
| doubleukay | tybollt: hiya, is there anything I have to do to get my phone recognized by NSU? I flashed my E51 before and it detected the USB NSU interface, but with the N900 it seems unable to. the USB NSU interface only detects after I switch the phone on and unlock it. | 16:45 |
| Stskeeps | TMM: somewhat yes | 16:45 |
| doubleukay | but that's for a split second, after which the phone reboots.. | 16:45 |
| TMM | Stskeeps: sounds to me some mucking about with GPE is in order then :) maemo seems to have a bit too many closed bits to 'clean up' easily | 16:46 |
| alterego | TMM, not at all, all the maemo UI is open, check out Mer. | 16:47 |
| |R | dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/cmt-firmware-rx51_8.2.2009.47-1.97+0m5_all.deb (--unpack): <- anyone is getting this? | 16:48 |
| |R | oh wait full rootfs ;) | 16:48 |
| X-Fade | |R: Don't use apt-get | 16:48 |
| sandman | I would never have bought the N900 if it was rpm... good thing Maemo 5 is | 16:48 |
| |R | X-Fade: why not? | 16:48 |
| |R | X-Fade: i couldn't even upgrade to PR1.1 without :/ | 16:48 |
| X-Fade | |R: Because it doesn't do the things that AM does. | 16:48 |
| sandman | hope the community can continue with Maemo 5.. and i will need to check mer | 16:49 |
| |R | like what? | 16:49 |
| X-Fade | |R: And you will end up with a much larger rootfs. | 16:49 |
| TMM | alterego: ow, shiny. Can I actually cobble together an image based on mer that would run on a N900? | 16:49 |
| |R | uhm | 16:49 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: the maemo UI contains closed-source UI elements. | 16:49 |
| javispedro | |R: Like moving the apt archive cache to the fat volume, thus not showing that error message :) | 16:49 |
| |R | javispedro: i can do it by hand :P | 16:49 |
| TriztFromWork | not again flamewar about package managers.... they all suxx in one way or another | 16:49 |
| alterego | TMM: possibly I wouldn't know,m but even if you can't it'd be nice if you helped out with that project :) | 16:50 |
| X-Fade | |R: And set UBIFS compression to high. | 16:50 |
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| wolf^ | sandman, I bougt N900 even though it doesn't have rpm. get over it, it's only a stupid package manager | 16:50 |
| |R | ok | 16:50 |
| doubleukay | tybollt: seem to be getting somewhere with the U button.. | 16:50 |
| |R | it's weird that it's not in the packages script... | 16:50 |
| |R | bad way to do it then IMHO | 16:50 |
| sandman | wolf^: I will probably not get over it :( | 16:50 |
| TMM | alterego: well, if it's goal is to have a completely free system then I don't see why I wouldn't spend some time to get it working to my level of satisfaction :) | 16:50 |
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| X-Fade | |R: apt-get is just not supported. | 16:50 |
| X-Fade | |R: It works, but that is just a side effect :) | 16:51 |
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| |R | cause last time i really had no choice :/ | 16:51 |
| alterego | TMM: that is it's exact goal :) | 16:51 |
| sandman | maybe ubuntu arm get it's big shot here | 16:51 |
| * TriztFromWork shivers | 16:52 | |
| TMM | alterego: is there already a browser in Mer? | 16:52 |
| alterego | TMMwell, you could use mobile firefox, or any number of browsers, I'm not sure of the state of microb | 16:53 |
| |R | damn now i have not enough space on target... | 16:53 |
| |R | damn /var/lib/dpkg :P | 16:53 |
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| * javispedro args to opensuse | 16:54 | |
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| javispedro | I managed to render it unbootable without even going to a shell | 16:54 |
| TMM | alterego: well, if there's something I'd be ok with it. Ow, a mail client is rather important too :P | 16:54 |
| javispedro | just trying to right click on the updates available icon and updating... | 16:54 |
| |R | how much space does this update needs? | 16:54 |
| javispedro | then it said PackageKit was broken et voilà . | 16:55 |
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| alterego | TMM, mutt? :P | 16:55 |
| * javispedro goes to fedoraproject.org ... | 16:55 | |
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| alterego | Again, there's claws or something like that which will probably do the job. | 16:55 |
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| TriztFromWork | wb timeless_mbp | 16:58 |
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| TMM | alterego: ok, awesomeness :) I'm ordering a N900 then. I'll probably be here bugging you about how to muck about with the hardware ;) | 16:59 |
| TMM | alterego, Stskeeps, SpeedEvil: Thanks a lot for your information and patience :) | 16:59 |
| VRe | hmm.. Maemo 5 3.2010.02-8 .. application manager lists such a update | 17:00 |
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| javispedro | oh, pr1.1.1? | 17:03 |
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| VRe | Maybe.. quite a lump it seems.. nothing on maemo.org | 17:04 |
| javispedro | tmo is getting crazy already | 17:04 |
| javispedro | hm... seems noone dumped the changes onto the wiki yet | 17:04 |
| ifreq | they are? | 17:05 |
| evilrob | TMM: best price I could find this week was dell | 17:05 |
| |R | uhm i fucked up hehe | 17:05 |
| evilrob | ordered mine yesterday afternoon. hasn't shipped yet. estimated delivery friday. | 17:06 |
| evilrob | but I live about 4 miles from their warehouse. | 17:06 |
| TMM | evilrob: dell? | 17:06 |
| ifreq | javispedro: under Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 | 17:06 |
| |R | rebooted, updated, booted, little dots, then nothing... oops :) | 17:06 |
| |R | maybe i should have forced thos hildon initscripts over mp-something-002 afterall ;) | 17:07 |
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| evilrob | yeah. dell. wouldn't think it, butthey have good prices on other tech stuff sometimes too | 17:07 |
| javispedro | ifreq: ta! | 17:07 |
| evilrob | forget it. price went up from yesterday | 17:07 |
| nid0 | hm, anyone seen any recent issues where the app manager seems to function perfectly fine, but is outputting "ignoring version from wrong domain" errors relating to gstreamer and gstreamer-tools every time it runs/updates/installs? | 17:07 |
| evilrob | bought mine from dell yesterday for 500. now it's 539 | 17:08 |
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| evilrob | amazon has em for 529 still | 17:08 |
| TMM | evilrob: what currency? | 17:08 |
| evilrob | USD | 17:08 |
| TMM | evilrob: euro zone here :-/ much more expensive | 17:08 |
| TMM | 627 USD is the cheapest I can find it here | 17:09 |
| * evilrob forgets this channel is much more international than most he's on | 17:09 | |
| pupnik | euro zone has much stricter returns laws. that is part of the price. | 17:09 |
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| TMM | yes, I guess so | 17:10 |
| pupnik | the rest is the taxation on every stage of business | 17:10 |
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| TMM | well, I'll look around for a bit | 17:11 |
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| * pupnik imagines a smuggling ring :) | 17:11 | |
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| TMM | well, I can just order it cheaper from the US | 17:12 |
| TMM | I'd probably have to pay some extra duties, but no way it'll be that much | 17:13 |
| evilrob | I might be on a plane for Turin in the next few weeks. I should smuggle some over :) | 17:13 |
| TMM | looks like I'll be able to save myself around 100 euros if I import it | 17:13 |
| ifreq | wazd. i really like what ya done to your theme coloring. easy for the eye :) | 17:13 |
| evilrob | I imported my N82 2 years ago. I still see myself swapping my sim to use that phone once in a while after I get the N900 even. | 17:14 |
| Arif | hmm | 17:14 |
| Arif | anyone know why the N900 rings so quiet? | 17:15 |
| Arif | it's nearly unhearable outside ;o | 17:15 |
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| wazd | ifreq: glad to hear that :) | 17:15 |
| ShadowJK | where is the volume slider? | 17:15 |
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| Jaffa | Heh, rcadden is shutting down maemo-guru.com. Why does http://www.maemo-guru.com/2010/02/with-meego-i-go/ sound similar to http://www.maemo-guru.com/2008/08/tablet-guru-on-hiatus-until-further-notice/ | 17:16 |
| Arif | all the way up | 17:16 |
| javispedro | "To be honest, the MeeGo name itself is awesome, from a marketing standpoint. It’s much more friendly and inviting than Maemo," iaaaaaaaaaargggggggh | 17:16 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: no | 17:16 |
| SpeedEvil | iaaaaaaaaaaaaargggggggggo | 17:16 |
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| javispedro | :) | 17:17 |
| Arif | maybe I'm just too used to the N95 8GB's speakers | 17:17 |
| Arif | -.- | 17:17 |
| javispedro | I just love that "Meego, Meesaw, Meelost" | 17:17 |
| vmlemon_ | "Let MeeGo!" | 17:18 |
| javispedro | haha | 17:18 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: meego-guru.com! | 17:18 |
| javispedro | this name is too fun. | 17:18 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi-go | 17:18 |
| javispedro | youtube.com is already of meego videos | 17:19 |
| wazd | RST38h: confess, it was your idea to call it MeeGo :D | 17:19 |
| * vmlemon_ wonders if it'll have satellite navigation functionality | 17:19 | |
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| javispedro | MeeGoNowhere | 17:19 |
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| vmlemon_ | Will it have a "MeeGoHome" button, should you get lost? | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | MeeGo 2 Amsterdam | 17:20 |
| wazd | MeeGoHazCheesburger :D | 17:20 |
| vmlemon_ | Sounds like something a Furby would say | 17:20 |
| * Arif wants a MeeWent button as a call log | 17:20 | |
| javispedro | vmlemon_++, lol | 17:20 |
| trbs | MeeIs in Amsterdam | 17:20 |
| trbs | ow what that doesn't fit lol :) | 17:20 |
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| trbs | s/what/wait/ | 17:20 |
| infobot | trbs meant: ow wait that doesn't fit lol :) | 17:20 |
| Arif | why do you want to go to hamsterdam | 17:20 |
| Arif | o.o | 17:20 |
| SystemParadox | can anyone help me get gcc working on my N900? I'm a bit confused by the repo setup | 17:20 |
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| vmlemon_ | "MeeGo, MeeHongry Furby" | 17:20 |
| jsa_ | At least it'll be more difficult to whine about it.. "MeeGo sucks!" | 17:20 |
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| ab | jsa_, it should have been just "Mee" to fully complicate whining :) | 17:22 |
| Arif | this reminds me of the Wii... | 17:22 |
| * vmlemon_ waits for the MEEEPC | 17:22 | |
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| javispedro | MeeGoWiiSuck | 17:24 |
| wazd | javispedro: eew :D | 17:24 |
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| * javispedro has mistyped meego numerous types already. first #meebo, now #megod | 17:26 | |
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| wazd | yeah, meebo is really frustrating similarity | 17:26 |
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| wazd | meebo, meego, meefo, meedo | 17:26 |
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| ab | javispedro, one nice thing about "MeeGoWii" can come true if someone ports it to this specialized hardware ;) | 17:28 |
| * javispedro is reminded of the Mergotchi... hm... MeeGotchi :) | 17:29 | |
| vmlemon_ | Argh, now I can imagine parrots squawking it | 17:29 |
| vmlemon_ | What have you folks done? | 17:29 |
| villemv | hey, w/ sensors + tv out we have a megowii already | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: time for "Licensing" product? | 17:29 |
| vmlemon_ | MeeGo, Yugo, WiiGo! | 17:29 |
| Shrik3 | weebaboo-derpderp | 17:30 |
| wao | :)) | 17:30 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps: Yes Sir! Roger Sir! Awaiting further instructions, Sir! ;-) | 17:30 |
| wao | metoo | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: sorry, that came out wrong :) | 17:30 |
| vmlemon_ | In keeping with the Nintendo theme, I guess that MiiGo also works | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: what info do you need from me? | 17:30 |
| andre__ | haha, not at all. I'm just trying to fool you :-P | 17:30 |
| andre__ | hmm, classification would be cool | 17:31 |
| Arif | heh | 17:31 |
| Arif | bugzilla tells me my file's too big :D | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: actually, it might be a benefit to hide this product a bit as to have a entry from somewhere else | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | so i would be pointing to enter.cgi?product=Licensing | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | so, think i'd be shot for putting it under Official Platform? | 17:32 |
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| andre__ | Arif, there's a limit, yeah | 17:32 |
| Arif | Would it be a problem if I put it on rapidshare? | 17:32 |
| andre__ | Arif, what exactly? | 17:32 |
| Arif | A crash report | 17:33 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, description? | 17:33 |
| andre__ | Arif, a crash report is not 2MB big :) maybe a coredump though, or an attachment... | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: For licensing change requests | 17:33 |
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| andre__ | Stskeeps, okay, but I think we should already put a warning there, like "no me too, elaborate and give good points" | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | and <a href="http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_development/Licensing_change_requests"> please read or something | 17:34 |
| Arif | andre__, that could be it too.. :) do you think it's neccessary for this bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9020 to upload a report from the new fw or not? | 17:34 |
| povbot` | Bug 9020: Media player crashes when trying to search in ''All songs'' | 17:34 |
| andre__ | Arif, ah, that's you :) | 17:34 |
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| Arif | yes :) | 17:34 |
| andre__ | Arif: can you send it by private email to me? aklapper at openismus | 17:35 |
| andre__ | dot com | 17:35 |
| Arif | sure | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: so Licensing change requests, please read <a href= > for instructions | 17:35 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, yeah | 17:35 |
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| andre__ | Stskeeps, Done | 17:37 |
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| Stskeeps | andre__: thanks | 17:38 |
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| andre__ | Stskeeps, but is this just for requests? | 17:38 |
| andre__ | or also for bugs, e.g. conflicts between different licenses stated in two files | 17:39 |
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| Stskeeps | andre__: mm. i'm not sure if that should be covered in this or not since it is a bug against specific components | 17:40 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, so maybe I should rename "Licensing" then :-D | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | Licensing requests is fine | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | or licensing change requests | 17:41 |
| andre__ | yeah, probably better | 17:41 |
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| andre__ | Stskeeps, I'll do that later and also move all tickets there that can be applied, got to have a coffee now first with a friend. priorities, you know ;-)) | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | sounds good, no rush | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | have a good cofee | 17:42 |
| SystemParadox | why is chmod +x not doing anything!?! | 17:43 |
| Shrik3 | you're doing it wrong | 17:43 |
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| SystemParadox | # ls -l kbdd | 17:44 |
| SystemParadox | -rw-r--r-- 1 user root 27420 Jun 3 2007 kbdd | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | SystemParadox: is it on a fat fs? | 17:44 |
| SystemParadox | chmod +x kbdd | 17:44 |
| javispedro | MyDocs = FAT filesystem, noexec. | 17:44 |
| SystemParadox | -rw-r--r-- 1 user root 27420 Jun 3 2007 kbdd | 17:44 |
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| SystemParadox | javispedro, oh | 17:44 |
| SystemParadox | so it is | 17:44 |
| SystemParadox | I saw ext3 for /home/user | 17:44 |
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| SystemParadox | why is the documents in .documents anyway? And why is there a "Mac OS" folder? | 17:45 |
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| pupnik | mac users are special | 17:47 |
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| thresh | don't be politically correct | 17:48 |
| javispedro | thresh: before you say anything, wait until all mac users on this room leave ;) | 17:48 |
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| mashiara | oi! | 17:48 |
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| * mashiara is an unique snowflake | 17:49 | |
| vmlemon_ | That's for the Classic Mac OS users | 17:49 |
| mashiara | :) | 17:49 |
| thresh | javispedro: i'm a macos user myself :-( | 17:49 |
| X-Fade | Oh watch out now ;) | 17:49 |
| vmlemon_ | The next version will support Mac OS X ;) | 17:49 |
| SystemParadox | ok nope that didn't work. I've still gotta compile this for the right kernel version | 17:49 |
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| SystemParadox | I really don't understand why the build tools are in with the unstable packages | 17:49 |
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| javispedro | SystemParadox: they're not with the unstable packages, but within the sdk/tools repos | 17:50 |
| * mashiara wonders why the 20100303 kernel source package control file does not list kernel-flasher | 17:50 | |
| SystemParadox | sdk/tools? | 17:50 |
| SystemParadox | I've seen freemantle/sdk | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | mashiara: someone misunderstanding a bug? | 17:50 |
| SystemParadox | but everyone says that pulls in all the testing packages too, which I don't want | 17:51 |
| mashiara | well the old control file *was* excessive... | 17:51 |
| javispedro | SystemParadox: may I suggest a chroot. Chances of trashing the base system are lesser. | 17:51 |
| TMM | alterego: is there a free equivalent to the 'flasher' tool? Or do you also need that with mer? | 17:52 |
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| alterego | TMM, no I don't think there is. | 17:52 |
| SystemParadox | that sounds like unnecessary compilication to me. The build tools must be stable, so why aren't they in stable repos? | 17:52 |
| alterego | TMM, but once you're installed you can come up with your own bootstrapping facility I'm sure. | 17:52 |
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| TMM | alterego: so, it will only be needed once? | 17:53 |
| alterego | TMM depends how many times you want to flash it. | 17:53 |
| TMM | alterego: well... what parts need to be flashed? Just the kernel I suppose? | 17:53 |
| alterego | kernel, root filesystem | 17:53 |
| alterego | That should be it. | 17:54 |
| TMM | alterego: ah, the rootfs also lives in a special place? | 17:54 |
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| alterego | Not realy speciial, but the flasher is useful for doing that. | 17:54 |
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| alterego | I'd probably boot off of MicroSD and just flash the kernel. | 17:54 |
| javispedro | th | 17:54 |
| TMM | ok, but I could just copy over a new root fs on a file-by-file basis rather than flash it? | 17:54 |
| SystemParadox | javispedro, are there instructions for a chroot somewhere? | 17:54 |
| alterego | Sure, | 17:54 |
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| TMM | well, I'll be fine then | 17:55 |
| javispedro | SystemParadox: they are, but lost in talk.maemo.org. If you want you can install any Debian version. | 17:55 |
| javispedro | (thus follow usual debian foreign chroot instructions) | 17:55 |
| SystemParadox | wait hold on | 17:55 |
| SystemParadox | is this going to require me install a whole debian system? | 17:55 |
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| * RST38h moos at javispedro with no apparent purpose | 17:56 | |
| TMM | SystemParadox: a bare debian debootstrap isn't too large | 17:56 |
| * VDVsx moos at RST38h :) | 17:56 | |
| javispedro | SystemParadox: yes, which is something that is missing on your N900 currently. | 17:56 |
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| SystemParadox | lol | 17:56 |
| javispedro | moo RST38h | 17:57 |
| * RST38h feels like moving whatever little UI he has to Harmattan framework right away =) | 17:57 | |
| SystemParadox | I would probably have installed it anyway | 17:57 |
| RST38h | Heya VDVsx, javis | 17:57 |
| javispedro | RST38h: looks pretty similar to Fremantle GUI... | 17:57 |
| javispedro | I wonder what happened to the "all applications were desktop gadgets concept" | 17:57 |
| RST38h | javispedro: But also looks like moblin in a way | 17:57 |
| wazd | RST38h: anything interesting with this Maemo 6 UI FW? | 17:58 |
| javispedro | ""Maemo 6" will not be used by Nokia as a brand since all the marketing effort around the software platform will be around MeeGo." heh | 17:59 |
| javispedro | so Maemo is RIP indeed. | 17:59 |
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| Jef91 | is the update they pushed out today for the n900 solid/stable? | 17:59 |
| god206 | Harmattan framework looks fsckin fast | 18:00 |
| pupnik | maemo is a better name :( | 18:00 |
| Lynoure | Moo is a bit cowlike, yes. | 18:00 |
| javispedro | but he's confirming my yesterday's intuition that it would be still the hartmattan we know, only renamed. | 18:00 |
| cehteh | me mooh }:> | 18:00 |
| wazd | meego really sounds like some lolcat quote :) | 18:00 |
| Lynoure | oops, Mee | 18:00 |
| Lynoure | Cowlike still, at least pronounced the Finnish way | 18:01 |
| pupnik | maego would have been better | 18:01 |
| SystemParadox | what's the biggest microSD card you can get now? | 18:01 |
| cehteh | 32gb | 18:02 |
| wazd | thank god they haven came up with maeblin :D | 18:02 |
| cehteh | but officalls only 16gb is supported on the n900 | 18:02 |
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| cehteh | (with the disclamer that not all cards my work) | 18:02 |
| cehteh | i bet some 32gb cards will work too | 18:02 |
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| trbs | meego.... reminds me a bit of that game "world of goo" *ponders* if maemo-6 will have soft, mold-able goo interface :P | 18:03 |
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| javispedro | maeblin sounds better! | 18:03 |
| wazd | trbs: that would be too awesome for 2 boring mega-companies | 18:03 |
| wazd | javispedro: beleive me, not in russian :D | 18:03 |
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| frals | loving how my exchange spamfilter sends most of the meego-dev posts to spam | 18:04 |
| wazd | frals: currently I have a freaking load of messages form meego dev | 18:05 |
| alterego | frals, I here a lot of gmail accounts are doing the same thing .... | 18:05 |
| alterego | frals, kidding :P | 18:05 |
| Sergey_ | linux in nokia....the best !!!!Great | 18:05 |
| ZogG | DA!! | 18:06 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Well, it is the same concept as Fremantle (dialogs popping up from the bottom), uses gray/orange theme, top bar looks like moblin | 18:07 |
| RST38h | wazd: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andreagrandi/sets/72157623318994953/detail/ | 18:07 |
| RST38h | Maeblin actually sounds cool =) | 18:07 |
| thresh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3TdoY868kc looks ugly | 18:08 |
| thresh | RST38h: yeah i already joked about it yesterday | 18:08 |
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| Stskeeps | thresh: if that's a reference theme, i'm sure there's reason for Mer :P | 18:09 |
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| Stskeeps | my god, that's ugly.. | 18:09 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:09 |
| wazd | RST38h: yeah, let's have a "oh my god I don't beleive they really nemed it like that" brands era :D | 18:09 |
| wazd | RST38h: iPad, maeblin :) | 18:09 |
| thresh | i proposed a 'maemo, blin' | 18:09 |
| RST38h | thresh, wazd: Eblin. Just Eblin. | 18:09 |
| nid0 | lack of uk firmware update is getting old :'( | 18:09 |
| Shapeshifter | is there some way to configure if a script should be run when a specific wlan connection is made? (I need vpnc to be run when connecting to this AP here) | 18:10 |
| RST38h | Ok, Ma eblin. | 18:10 |
| thresh | nid0: that's what you get for living in advanced country | 18:10 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: remember my words that I can't outperform the whole floor of nokia/intel designers? | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i think you can, judging by these themes | 18:11 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:11 |
| RST38h | wazd: You probably can | 18:11 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: forget it :D | 18:11 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: started looking at QML yet btw? | 18:11 |
| thresh | :D | 18:11 |
| RST38h | wazd: IQ of the crowd = IQ of its stupidiest participant / crowd size | 18:11 |
| Dharmit | Hello. I can't install maemo sdk on my Fedora 12 as per the instructions mentioned in the post http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34924 | 18:11 |
| iPeter- | Hi, im trying to update to newest update. It says not enough memory. What should i do? | 18:11 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: actually yes | 18:11 |
| * RST38h works on his capitalization: Me eBlin would probably be the perfect fit | 18:12 | |
| RST38h | s/Me/Ma | 18:12 |
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| Shapeshifter | Mah Meh | 18:12 |
| iPeter- | Oh, and i got maemo 5, N900 | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: cool | 18:13 |
| wazd | but seriously, that's what they came up after, like, 3 years of work? | 18:13 |
| * javispedro doesn't dislike the harmattan theme much | 18:13 | |
| wazd | since they've started to develop Harmattan right after n810 release | 18:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: Well, they scratch their work and start from scratch every 6-12 months | 18:13 |
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| X-Fade | wazd: That is just an sdk theme of course. | 18:14 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Previous SDK theme (Maemo5) ended up not that far from the final | 18:14 |
| wazd | X-Fade: I'm not about theming, it's temporary ofcourse | 18:14 |
| wazd | X-Fade: I'm about overall :) | 18:14 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: So, no reason to believe this one will be that far off | 18:14 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: This is not even the alpha sdk. | 18:14 |
| javispedro | notificacions actually look like a step down :) | 18:14 |
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| javispedro | *notifications. | 18:14 |
| RST38h | javispedro: They look like MS Phone7 stuff =) | 18:15 |
| javispedro | RST38h: true :) | 18:15 |
| X-Fade | Looks like Qt desktop stuff to me. | 18:15 |
| RST38h | javis: Aka "I can't draw frames" | 18:15 |
| wazd | RST38h: but you should be happy, looks like you can use an image for the backgrounds right now :) | 18:15 |
| javispedro | the home icon and background image, specially. I think I even saw those already on some other Qt project | 18:15 |
| tru | iPeter-: http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space | 18:15 |
| javispedro | X-Fade^^ | 18:15 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: 'epic user experience' | 18:16 |
| javispedro | I have to wonder how they do the title bar transparency with X11... oh noes they moved to Qt-FB! >:) | 18:16 |
| * javispedro fears it will be just a clutter bar overimposed the xwindows and thus app devs will have to take care that each windows' top 60px will be unusable | 18:17 | |
| wazd | RST38h: seen my link bout Mi-Go? | 18:17 |
| wazd | The Mi-go are large, pinkish, fungoid, crustacean-like entities the size of a man with a "convoluted ellipsoid" composed of pyramided, fleshy rings and covered in antennae where a head would normally be. | 18:18 |
| RST38h | WAZD: url? | 18:18 |
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| wazd | RST38h: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi-go | 18:18 |
| wazd | RST38h: I thought you should know them since you're worshipping The Tentacled One :D | 18:19 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Yea, that looks like something Intel has created | 18:19 |
| wazd | http://lolthulhu.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/mikemystery-migo.jpg :D | 18:19 |
| wazd | omg :D | 18:20 |
| RST38h | wazd: Very familiar | 18:20 |
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| iPeter- | How to paste on nano in xterm | 18:22 |
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| pupnik | menu-paste | 18:23 |
| iPeter- | Yup, found. | 18:23 |
| RST38h | ===> home | 18:23 |
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| Shapeshifter | any hints on my question of executing scripts when connecting to a wlan AP? | 18:27 |
| MiXu- | anyone know where the release notes for pr1.1.1 are? | 18:27 |
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| ZogG | how do i add my personal rep? | 18:31 |
| ZogG | i just added url of it but it adds wierd stuff to it | 18:31 |
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| wazd | jeeez | 18:33 |
| wazd | I just encountered a result of Mighty Soviet Designers! | 18:33 |
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| wazd | and failed :D | 18:33 |
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| sandman | Due to the latest Meego discussions i have been looking around little. I think the merge with intel is good... though little dissapointed in some of the decisions. Though it is rough and not finnished have someone tryed this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2 | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | sandman: ubuntu's having a lot of trouble with thumb | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | 2 | 18:34 |
| sandman | Stskeeps: yeah i know... saw the bugs | 18:34 |
| uhsf | the problem is they deprecated the n900 way too fast with this announcement | 18:35 |
| sandman | ohh.. could it be possible to phone in CLI? | 18:35 |
| sandman | uhsf: yeah | 18:35 |
| uhsf | they should have waited a few months when meego was more ready | 18:35 |
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| uhsf | now they just killed many n900 sales | 18:36 |
| sandman | yeah.. they made a vacum for the N900 now | 18:36 |
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| javispedro | oh, my god. | 18:36 |
| javispedro | a maemo fansite started their own repo. | 18:36 |
| sandman | what!! | 18:36 |
| sandman | give mee | 18:36 |
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| frals | javispedro: :| which one? | 18:37 |
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| sandman | I wan't to find the best .deb solution for my phone | 18:38 |
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| iPeter- | what is vacum | 18:38 |
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| sandman | javispedro: do you have a link? | 18:38 |
| javispedro | sandman: yes, though I'm not sure why you want it. | 18:39 |
| uhsf | usb networking was all set up but suddenly i get ssh: connect to host 192.168.2.15 port 22: Connection refused. what could be wrong? | 18:39 |
| javispedro | frals: spanish one. theoretically, they're going to ship "translations". | 18:39 |
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| frals | tell em to go to maemo.org instead :< | 18:39 |
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| uhsf | i still can ping the device | 18:40 |
| javispedro | I've told them numerous times. | 18:40 |
| javispedro | So they called me "unhelpful" and seems made their way either way | 18:40 |
| Shapeshifter | so, has anyone else trie vpngui? It seems like I can only enter a numeric password >.> | 18:40 |
| wazd | damn, looks like I caught that epic e63 bluetooth bug :( | 18:40 |
| Shapeshifter | but no alpha | 18:40 |
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| red | sup with Maemo update? | 18:41 |
| red | changelog somewhere? | 18:41 |
| god206 | would be nice | 18:41 |
| frals | on the wiki there is some | 18:41 |
| frals | /PR1.1.1 or smth | 18:41 |
| sandman | javispedro: for me the N900 is a computer... If there is a new repo i like to know | 18:41 |
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| red | Maemo 5 PR1.1 is being released on January 14, 2010 | 18:42 |
| red | thats an older update | 18:42 |
| javispedro | sandman: there shouldn't be any more repos. this "gotta catch em all" behavior is nonsense. | 18:42 |
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| red | this is some 16.2MB | 18:42 |
| iPeter- | Is there any msn client / plugin what allows connections to msn from many computers? | 18:42 |
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| Andy80 | iPeter-: google is the answer, off topic here :P | 18:43 |
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| iPeter- | Can i uninstall Mozilla runtime if i uninstalled Firefox? | 18:44 |
| iPeter- | Andy80: I just found some info of vacuum | 18:44 |
| sandman | javispedro: yeah, you are right. It is better to have one big. My dream would be to use Ubuntu on my phone though with phone capabilities | 18:44 |
| matthew- | Hmmm, | 18:44 |
| matthew- | what's the thing with the meemo? | 18:44 |
| matthew- | meego | 18:45 |
| matthew- | i mean | 18:45 |
| javispedro | also, they're doing translations the ugly way. by "binary" editing packages of interpreted applications | 18:45 |
| nid0 | red: the 1.1.1 changelog is where frals said it is | 18:45 |
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| frals | red: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 | 18:46 |
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| red | ty frals | 18:47 |
| red | for some reaosn when I tried to add .1 in the last it showed the old update | 18:47 |
| red | got me confused :) | 18:47 |
| sandman | matthew: I think the merge is right in the longrun but that rpm might make me not use it. (I swapped OS on desktop cause of rpm) | 18:47 |
| matthew- | sandman: What you mean, they're moving to RPM packs? | 18:47 |
| matthew- | :o | 18:47 |
| frals | well | 18:48 |
| sandman | yes | 18:48 |
| frals | harmattan is going to use .deb | 18:48 |
| matthew- | I mean, is maemo over? | 18:48 |
| sandman | frals: that is goood!! | 18:48 |
| javispedro | matthew-: yes, maemo is dead. see topic image :) | 18:48 |
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| matthew- | that's just stupid. | 18:49 |
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| sandman | matthew: yes | 18:49 |
| matthew- | I bought my device as it was a maemo one. | 18:49 |
| sandman | matthew: yeah, me too | 18:49 |
| matthew- | and meego sounds shit. | 18:49 |
| nid0 | and it still is a maemo one. | 18:49 |
| sandman | but with rpm | 18:50 |
| matthew- | Ok, let me ask differently, what are the major changes? | 18:50 |
| matthew- | (and meego logo sucks) | 18:50 |
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| sandman | i will need to think deeply next device i buy.. where i go. | 18:50 |
| javispedro | maemo as brand is dead. maemo 6 will continue to be released as usual, only marketing will rename it to "meego" (but it will be meego in name mostly). after harmattan, maemo as distro disappears and is replaced by moblin + qt gui. that's the plan, basically. | 18:51 |
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| matthew- | Why isn't it updated on nokia's website? | 18:52 |
| matthew- | http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/ | 18:52 |
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| nid0 | because thats the n900 page | 18:52 |
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| nid0 | which runs maemo | 18:52 |
| nid0 | not meego | 18:52 |
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| matthew- | but wait, will the n900 run meego now? | 18:52 |
| nid0 | possible/dont know/unlikely | 18:53 |
| range | Hrmpf. | 18:53 |
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| cehteh | there is no meego yet | 18:53 |
| range | program manager tells me that I don't have enough space for the firmware update. | 18:53 |
| matthew- | nid0: well if it wont, it will just fuck up the roadmap of the device. | 18:53 |
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| range | 32.6MB free on / | 18:53 |
| matthew- | That's idiotic. | 18:53 |
| range | Why isn't /var/lib/dpkg somewhere outside of rootfs? | 18:53 |
| nid0 | it wont alter the roadmap any more than it was yesterday, as there basically wasnt one and still isnt, at least not publicly | 18:54 |
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| frals | range: disabling -devel and -testing should free up enough space | 18:54 |
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| range | The only enabled ones are "Nokia", "Nokia Updates" and "maemo.org" (not sure how the first two are called on an english device) | 18:55 |
| matthew- | I think i'll write a strongly worded letter to Nokia. | 18:55 |
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| Scelt | I had pokerth taking too much space from rootfs | 18:55 |
| Scelt | both most space needing libraries are maemo os dependant | 18:56 |
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| Scelt | another was 16 MB and can't remember the other one but already 16 MB is pretty much from 228 MB | 18:56 |
| range | I have /var/lib/dpkg being around 32MB large. | 18:56 |
| range | That's state stuff which does not really be on rootfs for performance reasons. Or does it? | 18:57 |
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| range | *need to be | 18:57 |
| greenfly | you need about 41Mb to update | 18:57 |
| iPeter- | Is it possible to have google chrome on maemo 5? ^^, | 18:57 |
| range | But where should I take that from? | 18:57 |
| greenfly | disable -devel and -testing and any other 3rd party repos | 18:58 |
| range | greenfly: I have. | 18:58 |
| greenfly | if you hack around with apt-get, remove any debs from /var/cache/apt/archives | 18:58 |
| range | There's only the two Nokia repos and maemo.org | 18:58 |
| Scelt | why the flash has to be only 256 MB at the first place? I say it's pretty short-sighted | 18:58 |
| greenfly | I noticed abiword took up a huge amount of space by itself | 18:58 |
| range | greenfly: I don't. I just install software via the app manager (okay, I have some testing stuff and devel stuff on there). | 18:58 |
| nebo | greenfly: yes, abiword did the trick for me | 18:58 |
| greenfly | Scelt: see the billion faqs on the file system layout for the n900. short story: very fast flash like that is expensive | 18:59 |
| nid0 | because any bigger than 256 would be very akward + hugely expensive | 18:59 |
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| nid0 | the first 512mb chips were only released at the beginning of 2009 (when the n900's hardware was probably already about finalised) and cost assloads | 18:59 |
| range | Yes, but I don't see why /var/lib would need to be on rootfs. | 18:59 |
| greenfly | range: also, if you are a fan of trying out themes, either uninstall or move ones from /usr/share/themes/ that you don't use | 19:00 |
| Scelt | greenfly: I know that fact but it seems to be a bad compromise. I have been using n900 only for like 2 weeks and already got into problems because of rootfs space. doesn't that tell it | 19:00 |
| range | Stuff which is accessed often in /lib or /bin or /sbin - yes ... | 19:00 |
| matthew- | Hmmm | 19:00 |
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| range | greenfly: Don't tell me they live on rootfs too? | 19:00 |
| greenfly | Scelt: do you use extras-devel? | 19:00 |
| range | Okay, let me see. | 19:00 |
| greenfly | range: /usr/share/themes/ does | 19:00 |
| * wazd swears like Jules Winnfield cause lookslike he needs to reflash his e63 :( | 19:00 | |
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| greenfly | range: so run a du -sh * in /usr/share/themes and see just how many of those tie up space | 19:01 |
| Scelt | greenfly: yes, I do but you can't blame all on that | 19:01 |
| greenfly | and since it's primarily taken up with compressed images, you don't get much benefit if any from the filesystem compression | 19:01 |
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| nid0 | Scelt: sure you can, as it's basically the reason. | 19:01 |
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| greenfly | Scelt: why not? most apps have to optify themselves appropriately before they are moved up to extras proper | 19:01 |
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| greenfly | in fact, that's one of the big reasons some apps are probably still in -devel | 19:01 |
| greenfly | if you want to play in -devel, then don't complain | 19:02 |
| greenfly | if you want to complain, then don't play in -devel | 19:02 |
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| greenfly | be happy with the fact that you own a device that allows you to hack around with it even if you don't know what you are doing | 19:03 |
| Scelt | nid0 and greenfly: damn guys. just admit that the 256 MB is living on the edge. even you used only official repos etc. you don't have like 90 % free, or most likely not even 60 %. it already tells that the 256 MB flash is excepting troubles for itself | 19:03 |
| nid0 | so what dyou want them to do about it, retrofit the device with a bigger flash chip at your expense? | 19:04 |
| nid0 | or move stuff onto the ssd and have it run dog-slow? | 19:04 |
| alterego | Use the internal 32G storage .. | 19:04 |
| greenfly | Scelt: I'd rather have the super-fast storage for the OS *shrug* | 19:04 |
| greenfly | instead of the slow 32g bulk storage | 19:04 |
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| greenfly | if they used the 32gb slow storage you'd be complaining about boot times instead of about root free space | 19:05 |
| greenfly | right now you are complaining because you want the very latest update that just came out, just because the version numbers are higher | 19:05 |
| doubleukay | btw, how much slower is the 32gb storage? | 19:05 |
| greenfly | but you screwed yourself up by playing around with development packages and filling up your / | 19:05 |
| range | nid0: Na, but move things around a bit. One of the largest consumers on my rootfs is (as stated) /var/lib/dpkg. | 19:05 |
| Lantizia | "Maemo 6 is still coming out… And I believe the plan is to keep it alive into V7 and beyond." | 19:05 |
| greenfly | see, I filled up my / and wasn't able to update either | 19:05 |
| Lantizia | who said that! | 19:05 |
| Lantizia | and is it true!? | 19:05 |
| greenfly | but I was able to figure out how to free up space | 19:05 |
| range | I don't see why that has to live there? | 19:05 |
| matthew- | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=529975 | 19:06 |
| greenfly | and I didn't complain, because that was the price I paid to use devel | 19:06 |
| uhsf | usb networking was all set up but suddenly i get ssh: connect to host 192.168.2.15 port 22: Connection refused. what could be wrong? | 19:06 |
| uhsf | i can still ping the device | 19:06 |
| alterego | You can ping the device? Hahah | 19:06 |
| alterego | My device doesn't respond to pings .. So .... | 19:06 |
| Scelt | greenfly: I know and I solved myself the same space issues but still I'm concerned about the device's possibilities | 19:07 |
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| greenfly | Scelt: it's possibilities are the exact reason you were able to fill up your / to begin with | 19:07 |
| alterego | Scelt: that's a bit of a pampered attitude. | 19:07 |
| greenfly | its even | 19:07 |
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| greenfly | if you want your phone to protect you from yourself, get an iPhone | 19:07 |
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| greenfly | if you want to hack around, stick w/ the n900 | 19:08 |
| greenfly | then again, you'd probably jailbreak your iPhone and complain when something didn't work | 19:08 |
| evilrob | is there a list somewhere of killer-apps? a must-have list? I've just started browsing the downloads at maemo.org | 19:09 |
| greenfly | my / was filled up mostly from debs from my adventures with command-line apt-get, a spare theme or two, and big non-optified -devel apps like abiword | 19:09 |
| greenfly | all things that took me maybe 10 minutes to fix | 19:09 |
| greenfly | *shrug* | 19:09 |
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| nid0 | personally speaking you guys with no space dont get to complain anyway, the update isnt even available to uk devices yet :< | 19:09 |
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| Lantizia | Maemo 6... will it still exist? | 19:10 |
| nid0 | yes | 19:10 |
| Lantizia | maemo 7? | 19:10 |
| rdorsch | I constantly get not enough space for the new FW bugfix release 3.2010.02-8 | 19:10 |
| rdorsch | How much space do I need? | 19:10 |
| nid0 | crystal ball doesnt go that far | 19:10 |
| Lantizia | maemo 6 still being .deb based? | 19:10 |
| nid0 | rdorsch 42mb needed | 19:10 |
| greenfly | ^^^ | 19:10 |
| Lantizia | i.e. still maemo | 19:10 |
| villager | 40MB seemed to work for me... I got it by disabling extras-testing | 19:11 |
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| Scelt | greenfly: nah. don't take me wrong. It's just odd that the flash is so small. Maybe cause of the price or maybe something else but still it's small and causing troubles. Maybe I'm one of the reasons in the problem but so is the small flash. to be honest, I'm a bit worried the whole meego bullshit going on right now and will it work with n900 etc. | 19:11 |
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| villager | or maybe it was more like 41.5MB | 19:11 |
| greenfly | Scelt: it's exactly because of the price | 19:11 |
| nid0 | Scelt: it's "so small" because it's the biggest that was available when the n900 hardware was decided | 19:11 |
| Lantizia | nid0: and how do you know for sure maemo 6 will come out as well as meego - instead of just meego? | 19:11 |
| nid0 | until the beginning of 2009 it was physically impossible to get larger than 256mb nand chips | 19:11 |
| greenfly | do you really think they'd go to the trouble of splitting up the OS across multiple storage if the 32Gb storage was just as fast? | 19:12 |
| rdorsch | nid0: thanks, 7mb to go.... | 19:12 |
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| nid0 | and when 512mb chips were released they were hugely expensive, and still are | 19:12 |
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| matthew- | nid0: not really | 19:13 |
| matthew- | they could've go with numonyx | 19:13 |
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| Scelt | nid0: ye, got it. but it doesn't take the problem away even the reason is very logical and good. maybe they should have waited before the launc of n900, maybe they should have done something differently, don't know. just hoping that flash of 256 MB doesn't make n900 meego-incompatible | 19:14 |
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| nid0 | it was mentioned in #meego yesterday that it wouldnt. | 19:15 |
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| Lantizia | nid0: wouldn't what? | 19:15 |
| Lantizia | oh I see | 19:15 |
| Scelt | nid0: make incompatible or compatible? | 19:15 |
| Lantizia | I don't really care about MeeGo for N900 | 19:15 |
| Lantizia | I care about maemo 6 for N900 | 19:16 |
| Lantizia | what makes you so sure it'll happen? | 19:16 |
| cehteh | the flash size is utterly unimportant, if only the partitioning wont suck that much | 19:16 |
| frals | its never been said anything about maemo6 on n900. | 19:16 |
| nid0 | the 256mb rootfs limitation doesn't make the n900 automatically incompatible with meego, theyre aiming for a smaller footprint than that | 19:16 |
| Scelt | nid0: cool | 19:16 |
| range | Lantizia: So you think they stop all development which has gone in the direction of Maemo6? | 19:16 |
| cehteh | you need a minimal busybox and a kernel on the boot system i guess you can go as small as 16MB | 19:16 |
| frals | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44664 | 19:16 |
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| Lantizia | range: I think thats a definate possibility if the next nokia device in this range will come with MeeGo - YES | 19:16 |
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| Lantizia | if (example) an N910 is Meego 1.0... where does Maemo 6 go? | 19:17 |
| Lantizia | only place is N900 | 19:17 |
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| tru | I thought that maemo 6 was supposed to be rebranded meego? | 19:17 |
| pupnik | what's in a name | 19:17 |
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| Lantizia | When I say Maemo... I mean nothing to do with meego | 19:18 |
| Lantizia | DEB based | 19:18 |
| range | qgil said that maemo6 will happen. | 19:18 |
| Lantizia | who is that? | 19:18 |
| range | Quim. | 19:18 |
| Lantizia | he said that after the meego announcement? | 19:18 |
| range | Works for Nokia as community manager. | 19:18 |
| range | Yes. | 19:18 |
| Lantizia | and it'll happen for n900 and it will be deb based as normal? | 19:18 |
| range | Nobody has said anything about n900 | 19:19 |
| Lantizia | I just did | 19:19 |
| Mousey | range: shh! taboo | 19:19 |
| range | I know. As have many outside of Nokia. | 19:19 |
| frals | Lantizia: none else have said anything about harmattan or anything except maemo5 on fremantle. | 19:19 |
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| range | frals: On n900, you mean :) | 19:20 |
| frals | yeah, doh | 19:20 |
| frals | s/fremantle/n900/ | 19:20 |
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| Lantizia | yes but if the next big Nokia will be MeeGo (undoubtably) | 19:20 |
| Lantizia | then the work going in to Maemo 6 has no where to go | 19:20 |
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| range | But Maemo6 *will* come out. | 19:21 |
| frals | id suggest you go read some on talk.maemo.org | 19:21 |
| Lantizia | range: on what! | 19:21 |
| range | See the link frals gave you above | 19:21 |
| range | Lantizia: On a Nokia Device! | 19:21 |
| Lantizia | frals: I have - theres nothing certain about any of it | 19:21 |
| Lantizia | range: which one! | 19:21 |
| * frals bashes head | 19:21 | |
| range | Lantizia: On the same it came out before the MeeGo announcement. | 19:21 |
| Lantizia | it's all just rumours | 19:21 |
| range | NO. | 19:21 |
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| range | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44664 | 19:21 |
| range | Read that. | 19:21 |
| Lantizia | ok i'll brb | 19:22 |
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| * frals quickly runs off not to get sucked in to the same discussion again | 19:23 | |
| matthew- | ;] | 19:23 |
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| * satmd doesn't like either | 19:23 | |
| pupnik | have you forgotten the N810 with no /opt whatsoever? N900 is an improvemednt. | 19:24 |
| range | pupnik: Still :) | 19:24 |
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| Lantizia | OK read | 19:24 |
| range | I think the complete dpkg/apt/package management stuff shouldn't need to be on the rootfs. | 19:24 |
| Lantizia | I'll stop saying Maemo 6 and start saying Harmattan | 19:24 |
| Lantizia | but the question is still there - what device will receive Harmattan! | 19:25 |
| matthew- | Hmmm, hy no update in the UK yet :? | 19:25 |
| pupnik | the next device | 19:25 |
| nid0 | matthew- nope | 19:25 |
| Lantizia | But that'll be MeeGo | 19:25 |
| range | Lantizia: Or maybe even the n900. | 19:25 |
| range | Nobody knows. | 19:25 |
| range | Except Nokia. And they don't tell. | 19:25 |
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| Lantizia | the next next nokia _will_ be meego | 19:25 |
| Lantizia | it even implies it in the announcement | 19:25 |
| pupnik | this OS works great | 19:25 |
| * range looks for a wall. | 19:25 | |
| Lantizia | all the marketing effort around the software platform will be around MeeGo. | 19:25 |
| Lantizia | </quote> | 19:25 |
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| * frals hands range a solid brick wall | 19:26 | |
| kevloral | hi all | 19:26 |
| range | Thanks. | 19:26 |
| * range smashes head | 19:26 | |
| frals | :-) | 19:26 |
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| vmlemon_ | Seems like a wasted investment, if the next device doesn't run MeeGo | 19:26 |
| Lantizia | yeah | 19:26 |
| pupnik | so who wants to do something useful? | 19:26 |
| satmd | the announcement also said that they're targetting current devices as well | 19:26 |
| matthew- | well, i've got insurance on mine | 19:26 |
| Lantizia | can't Nokia just hand Maemo over to the community once they've done stealing parts? | 19:26 |
| matthew- | so when the next device will come out ill just smash this one. | 19:26 |
| Lantizia | give us _ALL_ the damned source code | 19:26 |
| Lantizia | kernel code included | 19:27 |
| matthew- | and get the upgrade. | 19:27 |
| ml-mobile | all the kernel code is out there | 19:27 |
| satmd | he's including modules | 19:27 |
| range | Psssht. | 19:27 |
| Lantizia | yes | 19:27 |
| ml-mobile | all the modules are roo | 19:27 |
| ml-mobile | too | 19:27 |
| range | So which kernel module isn't out there as source? | 19:27 |
| ml-mobile | point one out that isn't | 19:27 |
| Lantizia | then why does Mer require you to have them from maemo | 19:28 |
| Lantizia | I've read they arn't available | 19:28 |
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| ml-mobile | point one out | 19:28 |
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| Lantizia | ml-mobile: I can't... it's just something I've read | 19:28 |
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| Lantizia | if I find the mer install guide for n900 it'll say there | 19:29 |
| matthew- | sandman: ! | 19:29 |
| sandman | yes | 19:29 |
| sandman | i was afk shortly | 19:30 |
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| Lantizia | personally I don't see why Harmatten has to go Qt... I think there would be alot more character is Maemo was the Debianised/Hildon OS and MeeGo to RPM/Qt one | 19:30 |
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| Lantizia | If MeeGo is going to be used on the next device anyway - why would nokia be adament to put Qt on the next Maemo? when it'll never get used "out of box" | 19:31 |
| sandman | matthew: did you want something? | 19:31 |
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| ml-mobile | Lantizia: what? | 19:32 |
| ml-mobile | nokia has planned to go Qt with maemo6 for a long time | 19:32 |
| matthew- | sandman: no. | 19:32 |
| matthew- | ;] | 19:32 |
| Lantizia | ml-mobile: Qt is coming to Maemo (the UI change) primarily I tend to think because they bought Trolltech... thats fine... but if they are not concentrating on MeeGo - they can accomplish that there | 19:32 |
| sandman | lol! | 19:32 |
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| Lantizia | So leave Maemo to be the Hildon / Deb based OS... and they can concentrate on MeeGo to be the Qt / RPM based OS | 19:33 |
| Lantizia | like Fedora vs Ubuntu | 19:33 |
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| Lantizia | well ok maybe OpenSUSE vs Ubuntu | 19:33 |
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| Lantizia | in other words... very distinct - very different | 19:33 |
| ml-mobile | I suspect the Qt transition was well underway before the merge | 19:33 |
| Lantizia | gives each of them a valid purpose | 19:33 |
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| Lantizia | Or perhaps merge whats left of Maemo 5 into Mer | 19:34 |
| Lantizia | Mer and MeeGo | 19:34 |
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| pupnik | getting "maemo" on more than just nokia devices is pretty important. what are paths that can lead to that? | 19:35 |
| sandman | Lantizia: i am with you on that | 19:35 |
| Lantizia | pupnik: they can do that with MeeGo | 19:35 |
| pupnik | answer: partnerships, and only intel was ready to go that path, it seems | 19:36 |
| Lantizia | I don't mind running the underdog Deb/GTK/Qt based OS (maemo / mer) while they fuck about with RPM's and shit | 19:36 |
| pupnik | so grin and bear it :) | 19:36 |
| Lantizia | as long as Nokia set it free. there isn't even source for the media player | 19:36 |
| Lantizia | which is constantly broke | 19:36 |
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| pupnik | dont use it then | 19:36 |
| Lantizia | maemo is incredibly open sure... but you can easily see why openmoko was more so | 19:36 |
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| ml-mobile | openmoko was also a disaster | 19:37 |
| Lantizia | true | 19:37 |
| Lantizia | :) | 19:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | In some fronts. | 19:38 |
| lupine_85 | oh dear to maemo 6 | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | The hardware proved that modest investments could get you to a pretty release ready phone. | 19:38 |
| pupnik | damn samsung should have hooked up with us :( | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | (talking of neo1973) | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | It also proved that you need to stick with shit until it works. | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | And need to talk to the community. | 19:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | rather than dropping massive project changes on them with no notice. | 19:39 |
| mtnbkr | hey my N900 just informed me there is a Maemo5 UPDATE! is there a URL for a changelog? | 19:39 |
| SystemParadox | is the kernel configuration for maemo available somewhere? | 19:39 |
| Lantizia | if nokia really want to just concentrate on the hardware and making good kit to run -ANY- os on | 19:39 |
| Lantizia | then let maemo go free | 19:39 |
| ml-mobile | Lantizia: "value-add" | 19:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Nokia wants to be IBM. | 19:39 |
| SpeedEvil | (of 1986) | 19:40 |
| vmlemon_ | Aren't the OpenMoko folks working on WikiPedia readers, or something stupid like that now? | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Not compaq. | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | vmlemon_: the wikipedia reader was a almost completely unrelated project. No linux involved. | 19:40 |
| vmlemon_ | Indeed. Seemed like a last-ditch attempt to stay relevant to me. | 19:41 |
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| marienz | 19 | 19:41 |
| marienz | err | 19:41 |
| Lantizia | am I the only person who REALLY likes hildon?> | 19:41 |
| uhsf | openmoko didn't work because people don't care about software freedom. people only care about having the latest shiniest fisher price toy | 19:41 |
| vmlemon_ | I guess that their lasting legacy is a bunch of obsolete mobile phones that barely even work as phones. | 19:41 |
| Lantizia | I don't see why we have to let HIldon go | 19:41 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, Licensing_Change_Requests wikipage does not seem to exist (yet)? | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: no, i'm making it tomorrow | 19:42 |
| andre__ | ah | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | just wanted to have the backend ready | 19:42 |
| andre__ | darn. I just linked against it :-P | 19:42 |
| andre__ | okay | 19:42 |
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| Lantizia | with maemo going qt...meego qt... angstrom (primarily) qtopia... openmoko qtopia | 19:42 |
| Lantizia | anything left hildon ? | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | ubuntu MID | 19:43 |
| Lantizia | other than ubuntu mobile which was a disaster that'll never see the light of day | 19:43 |
| Lantizia | lol | 19:43 |
| vmlemon_ | Ubuntu Mobile on a one-off basis | 19:43 |
| Lantizia | yeah - that doesn't count :) | 19:43 |
| Lantizia | was speaking with them today and basically they're discontinuing it | 19:43 |
| Lantizia | hildon is a mess - so they claim | 19:43 |
| vmlemon_ | They were also talking up an Android Execution Environment that's still vapour | 19:43 |
| vmlemon_ | Would have been interesting to see, though | 19:43 |
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| sportplusbr | www.pt-br.justin.tv/sportplusbr => [17:30] UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE: MILAN X MANCHESTER UNITED (OITAVAS DE FINAIS) AO VIVO | 19:44 |
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| Lantizia | umm thanks | 19:44 |
| pupnik | thsnk god Lantizia | 19:44 |
| Lantizia | pupnik: what? | 19:44 |
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| pupnik | we needed that like a toenail infection | 19:44 |
| Lantizia | you don't like hildon? | 19:45 |
| pupnik | ubuntu mobile | 19:45 |
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| lupine_85 | oh, wow. No GPL3 at all in any of Maemo6? | 19:45 |
| Lantizia | with the ubuntu mobile thing - I never actually understood what the fuck about it was related to "Moblin" | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | lupine_85: nor maemo5 | 19:45 |
| Lantizia | if Moblin was RPM ... then how is ubuntu MID related? | 19:45 |
| vmlemon_ | 3 letters | 19:45 |
| Lantizia | unless they mean Moblin 1.0 ? | 19:45 |
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| lupine_85 | maybe that explains some of the odd missing packages | 19:46 |
| lupine_85 | ah well | 19:46 |
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| * lupine_85 can't see this being a good move | 19:46 | |
| ml-mobile | lupine_85: GPLv3 isn't very welcome among industry | 19:47 |
| uhsf | Lantizia: ubuntu mid is used by the pandora project and these are starting to ship now | 19:47 |
| lupine_85 | indeed not | 19:47 |
| lupine_85 | but I meant the 'trusted' computing bits in general | 19:47 |
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| ml-mobile | there isn't any real support for it in Maemo5 | 19:48 |
| lupine_85 | yeah | 19:48 |
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| ml-mobile | future versions will, but it will be optional, at least from Nokia | 19:49 |
| lupine_85 | it'll be interesting to see how the security model they develop in an open-source fashion stands up to attempts to break it | 19:49 |
| ml-mobile | continually submit patches that undermine it :) | 19:49 |
| lupine_85 | heh | 19:50 |
| lupine_85 | 'though if I read it correctly, they're depending on a root key | 19:50 |
| ml-mobile | hardware crap | 19:50 |
| lupine_85 | it's not clear to me whether the private key is in the arm chip, or if that's just the public key | 19:50 |
| ml-mobile | all hardware vendor specific | 19:50 |
| ml-mobile | in that case it's just the public key | 19:50 |
| lupine_85 | it's also not clear whether the key in the device is unique per-device, or a global key | 19:51 |
| ml-mobile | global probably | 19:51 |
| lupine_85 | since they can't change the hardware key (I'm guessing?), that strikes me as being fairly vulnerable | 19:51 |
| lupine_85 | every device sounds like it's protected by virtue of keeping the private key secret | 19:51 |
| ml-mobile | no idea if there are device specific keys | 19:52 |
| ml-mobile | maybe with regular drm | 19:52 |
| lupine_85 | shouldn'y be too unbreakable, fortunately :) | 19:54 |
| matthew- | Hmm, waay. Cisco wont port to n900 either. Great. | 19:54 |
| Corsac | lupine_85: trustzone is a TPM, it's not exactly easy to break by nature | 19:54 |
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| Corsac | (it's not a TPM but it's the same kind of stuff, I mean) | 19:54 |
| lupine_85 | I guess it depends on the ease of getting hold of a dodgy key | 19:55 |
| * wazd ' gonna cook such a UI concept that nokia/intel designers will perform harakiri at one :) | 19:55 | |
| Corsac | though we don't have much documentation about it | 19:55 |
| wazd | once* | 19:55 |
| lupine_85 | matthew-: what aren't cisco porting? | 19:55 |
| ml-mobile | the only problem with all this TPM crap is the vendors invariably use it against their customers instead of for them | 19:55 |
| Lantizia | uhsf: pandora as in the games thing? | 19:55 |
| Lantizia | or the music thing? | 19:55 |
| matthew- | lupine_85: the voip app | 19:56 |
| Lantizia | all I ever hear is ubuntu mid is dead as dead as dead | 19:56 |
| lupine_85 | matthew-: ahh | 19:56 |
| uhsf | the gaming device | 19:56 |
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| uhsf | which has similar specs to the n900 | 19:57 |
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| matthew- | lupine_85: which is a bit of a let down, as i got 14x n900 for the office | 19:57 |
| * lupine_85 is mostly happy with the SIP support | 19:57 | |
| lupine_85 | matthew-: can't use sip? | 19:57 |
| lupine_85 | maybe get an in-office asterisk to interface to the phones, and act as a gateway | 19:57 |
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| Shapeshifter | could it be that charging the n900 over USB takes a much longer time then using the charger? | 19:57 |
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| lupine_85 | Shapeshifter: probably | 19:57 |
| ml-mobile | It does | 19:57 |
| lupine_85 | USB can't push as much power as a mains charger | 19:58 |
| Shapeshifter | okay | 19:58 |
| lupine_85 | specs restrictions | 19:58 |
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| ml-mobile | the wall charger supplies 0.5A more | 19:58 |
| lardman|home | re | 19:58 |
| Shapeshifter | charging over usb is extremely daft anyway. I never understood why people would want it. Everytime I plug in a device just to transfer some data or do something with it, a charging cycle gets wasted | 19:58 |
| Shapeshifter | and it conflicts with usb host mode | 19:58 |
| Shapeshifter | which is even worse then the first thing | 19:59 |
| * lupine_85 almost always charges over USB | 19:59 | |
| matthew- | lupine_85: Hmmm, | 19:59 |
| lupine_85 | matthew-: the built-in sip works pretty flawlessly | 19:59 |
| ml-mobile | Shapeshifter: because a billion different charger sockets sucks | 19:59 |
| lupine_85 | or if you have an xmpp server, it supports voice over XMPP too | 19:59 |
| Shapeshifter | ml-mobile: well ther -are- standards for charger sockets | 19:59 |
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| Shapeshifter | the round one, | 20:00 |
| ml-mobile | yes, many | 20:00 |
| Shapeshifter | symbol looks like this --<o--- | 20:00 |
| Shapeshifter | --(o-- | 20:00 |
| ml-mobile | sure | 20:00 |
| Shapeshifter | in different sizes. | 20:00 |
| matthew- | lupine_85: but why would i use sip and pay 14k for cisco solution? | 20:00 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps: moving to Licensing product finished, enjoy it :-P | 20:00 |
| ml-mobile | yeah, all sorts of sizes | 20:00 |
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| Shapeshifter | ml-mobile: one charger with an adaptor for all sizes isn't such a bother. | 20:00 |
| Shapeshifter | or they should settle for the smallest one | 20:01 |
| ml-mobile | that I have to buy it is | 20:01 |
| Shapeshifter | or at least let me choose if I want to charge or only transfer data ^^ | 20:01 |
| lupine_85 | matthew-: dunno. I've never understood the whole paying money for software thing, really | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: thanks, most of them are my own :P | 20:01 |
| ml-mobile | or that I have one from a prior phone I can only throw away | 20:01 |
| lupine_85 | if you gave them 14K, surely you got source code? | 20:01 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, feel more than free to reassign so it's clear who's repsonsible :) | 20:01 |
| matthew- | lupine_85: source code for what? It's cisco managed network. | 20:02 |
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| matthew- | lupine_85: It's not paying for software, but for recording of conference calls bla bla bla | 20:02 |
| lupine_85 | for whatever voip client is being used in your other hardware | 20:02 |
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| * lupine_85 has a generally low opinion of cisco anyway. we have a number of 7600-series routers at work - they've been less than great | 20:03 | |
| tybollt | la? | 20:03 |
| * Arif yawns | 20:05 | |
| matthew- | lupine_85: ;-) | 20:05 |
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| red | doh | 20:11 |
| red | 28,5MB free on rootfs | 20:11 |
| red | after garbage collection and apt-get autoremove | 20:12 |
| red | gotta uninstall some stuff >:/ | 20:12 |
| arachnist | > df -h / | 20:12 |
| arachnist | Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity Mounted on | 20:12 |
| arachnist | dataz2/sys/fbsd 5.2T 3.2G 5.2T 0% / | 20:12 |
| arachnist | which rootfs? ;> | 20:12 |
| red | the N900 one :p | 20:12 |
| TomaszD | disable extras testing and extras devel | 20:12 |
| thresh | 5.2T isnt huge | 20:13 |
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| red | I've already moved my apt-get caches out from rootfs | 20:13 |
| lupine_85 | I dunno | 20:13 |
| red | it's just apps mostly | 20:13 |
| lupine_85 | we only have 4.3T in our backup server | 20:13 |
| lupine_85 | ('though we do have 3 of those) | 20:13 |
| swc|666 | meh, run debian in a chroot for apps | 20:13 |
| red | I just bought a 1TB desktop hd <3 | 20:13 |
| arachnist | thresh: it's actually 5.4T, but zfs shows funny stuff with df | 20:13 |
| mavhc | in theory cisco support sip at some level, could never get it to work though | 20:14 |
| red | upgrade from my 10 year old 2x Maxtors (totaling in 500GB) which are running on holy spirit | 20:14 |
| arachnist | thresh: and there are 6 1.5TB drives configured in raidz2 | 20:14 |
| frals | is this where you insert df -h output from your fileserver of choice? | 20:14 |
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| arachnist | frals: no. this is where you insert df -h from your home NAS | 20:14 |
| thresh | yes | 20:14 |
| arachnist | ;> | 20:14 |
| swc|666 | 0o | 20:14 |
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| red | dataz2/sys/fbsd 105.2T 3.2G 105.2T 0% / | 20:15 |
| frals | home NAS/fileserver, potato potatoe ;) | 20:15 |
| red | see what i did there | 20:15 |
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| swc|666 | trickery | 20:16 |
| red | uninstall of chocie: fireshit & it's runtimes | 20:16 |
| red | back to plenty rootfs space | 20:16 |
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| * swc|666 solders a 512mb nand | 20:17 | |
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| ml-mobile | swc|666: I'd be impressed | 20:21 |
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| swc|666 | ml-mobile, not cost effective when one has the power of debian either/or/both on internal flash or sd ;) | 20:22 |
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| swc|666 | killall -9 {tracker-indexer,modest} seems to help too | 20:23 |
| swc|666 | and my biggest gripe is that the massive amount of lang files are depends with meta packages | 20:25 |
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| Arif | can't we delete all those languages to free up rootfs? :P | 20:27 |
| tybollt | red: 105 | 20:27 |
| tybollt | red: 105t? I hate you now :) | 20:27 |
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| nid0 | copy/alter/paste is well worth jealousy! | 20:28 |
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| tybollt | btw | 20:31 |
| tybollt | is it confirmed 1.1.1 is a stepping stone for 1.2? | 20:31 |
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| monoceros | 1.2 should be released before the end of February | 20:32 |
| Arif | I hear this is the last firmware update for the N900! | 20:32 |
| * Arif runs | 20:32 | |
| TomaszD | Arif is right, I can confirm | 20:33 |
| * TomaszD runs along | 20:33 | |
| Arif | :D | 20:33 |
| * ifreq grabs the shotgun | 20:33 | |
| ifreq | and a showerl | 20:33 |
| ifreq | showel* | 20:33 |
| Arif | shower? | 20:34 |
| SystemParadox | lol shovel? | 20:34 |
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| ifreq | shovel* | 20:34 |
| ifreq | :-P | 20:34 |
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| evilrob | playing with maemo5 sdk. in scratchbox, instead of time, it's displaying wdgt_va_24h_time. what did I break? | 20:41 |
| SystemParadox | hmm. the screen has gone blank on my N900 and won't come back. Seems that bzip2 is using all the CPU unpacking the debian image | 20:42 |
| sp3000 | anyone with an english, nederlands kind of keyboard layout? | 20:42 |
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| sp3000 | in notes, what character does shift (release) comma give you? | 20:43 |
| ml-mobile | evilrob: localization stuff is busted | 20:43 |
| sp3000 | (same for period, space) | 20:43 |
| evilrob | ml-mobile: figuring that out poking around. ideas on fixing it? | 20:44 |
| ml-mobile | evilrob: I had the issue but it was a while ago | 20:44 |
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| ml-mobile | try switching the language | 20:45 |
| ml-mobile | then reverting it | 20:45 |
| slonopotamus | ~ping | 20:45 |
| infobot | ~pong | 20:45 |
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| slonopotamus | so | 20:46 |
| evilrob | hmm... en_US is broken. en_UK is fine | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | os | 20:46 |
| slonopotamus | i think n900 can discharge faster than it charges :) | 20:46 |
| pupnik | "Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual who can labor in freedom." ~ Albert Einstein | 20:46 |
| slonopotamus | full cpu load + 3g + gps = really fast battery drain | 20:47 |
| simula_ | that is a great quote pupnik :) | 20:47 |
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| SystemParadox | ok help. How do I get my N900 to wake up again? It's busy doing something related to the debian chroot image. How did this make the screen go completely blank? I've got ssh access, any ideas? | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | SystemParadox: tap screen? | 20:52 |
| SystemParadox | lol | 20:52 |
| SystemParadox | it's not having any of it, buttons or anything | 20:53 |
| SystemParadox | I was messing with my bluetooth keyboard as well, maybe I've messed up the input events? Is there a way of waking it up on the command line? | 20:53 |
| swc|666 | SystemParadox, are u ssh'd into it? | 20:54 |
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| sivang | hi all | 20:54 |
| SystemParadox | yes | 20:54 |
| sivang | so MeeGo is Maemo 6? | 20:54 |
| swc|666 | use top/htop to see whats eating mem | 20:54 |
| sivang | the press are a tad confusing :) | 20:54 |
| swc|666 | run this... | 20:54 |
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| swc|666 | killall -9 tracker-indexer | 20:54 |
| sivang | ah, just noted the Topic | 20:54 |
| swc|666 | SystemParadox, what is the mount point for debian on your n900 btw | 20:54 |
| SystemParadox | bunzip2 is running, but it's only really using 40% CPU or less | 20:55 |
| SystemParadox | I suspect it's busy with disk access | 20:55 |
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| swc|666 | what is it unzipping? | 20:55 |
| swc|666 | let it run is my advice | 20:55 |
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| SystemParadox | but surely it shouldn't stop responding to the UI, even if it's using all CPU and munching on the disk as much as possible | 20:56 |
| swc|666 | yea it will | 20:56 |
| SystemParadox | it's doing the debian chroot install | 20:56 |
| swc|666 | leave it then | 20:56 |
| swc|666 | but | 20:56 |
| swc|666 | killall -9 tracker-indexer | 20:56 |
| LuciusMare | now, there are either of these two features i'd like to request: Subtitle support for mediaplayer or greater hw cooperation in mplayer, i watched half a hour of video and i've drained my battery already | 20:56 |
| SystemParadox | why am I killing that? | 20:56 |
| swc|666 | because its not needed right now | 20:57 |
| swc|666 | and if the mount point is not hidden with . then tracker-indexer will try and scan it | 20:57 |
| SystemParadox | the installer for debian needs a warning for this | 20:57 |
| uhsf | how can i ping a device via usb fine, and get ssh: no route to host error? how is that possible? of course there is a route to host if i can ping? | 20:58 |
| SystemParadox | uhsf, what OS? | 20:59 |
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| uhsf | arch linux | 21:00 |
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| uhsf | everything was fine but after a reboot (power interruption) i can't connect anymore | 21:00 |
| matthew- | still no update in the UK :? | 21:01 |
| SystemParadox | matthew-, what update? | 21:01 |
| matthew- | SystemParadox: firmware update | 21:01 |
| uhsf | + is it normal than most ports on my pc gives insufficient power to my n900 and it can't charge? | 21:01 |
| sr71 | uhsf: does the host you're attempting to connect to have a firewall? | 21:01 |
| SystemParadox | matthew-, I had one this morning | 21:01 |
| matthew- | SystemParadox: UK ? | 21:01 |
| SystemParadox | yeah | 21:01 |
| matthew- | i didnt... | 21:01 |
| SystemParadox | I was for maemo5 | 21:01 |
| sr71 | uhsf: you can get that message if the firewall sends an ICMP message | 21:02 |
| uhsf | sr71: no firewall | 21:02 |
| nid0 | matthew- - still no uk update | 21:02 |
| SystemParadox | any firewall which does that should be shot | 21:02 |
| matthew- | i've still got 2.2009.51 | 21:02 |
| matthew- | nid0: thanks. | 21:02 |
| SystemParadox | how do I find out what version? | 21:02 |
| nid0 | people in the uk who've had the update have international product versions | 21:02 |
| nid0 | either because they imported the phone or have flashed it to international in the past | 21:02 |
| matthew- | ah ok | 21:02 |
| SystemParadox | ok I may well be in that case | 21:02 |
| matthew- | nid0: thanks for the info. | 21:03 |
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| matthew- | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-_rf2jVxxY | 21:04 |
| matthew- | you've heard this, right?:D | 21:04 |
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| blizzow | does this mean no maemo6? | 21:05 |
| nid0 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44664 | 21:06 |
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| blizzow | booo rpm | 21:08 |
| marmoute | +1 | 21:09 |
| thresh | rpm ftw | 21:09 |
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| range | +1 | 21:09 |
| range | :) | 21:09 |
| w00t | oh lord, here we go again | 21:09 |
| thresh | (i totally should make an auto-exclamation on that) | 21:09 |
| sp3000 | it's an attempt to identify holy wars, step on one side, hten jump on the other | 21:09 |
| pronto | they should use yum | 21:09 |
| range | Na, I can hold my water. | 21:09 |
| pronto | *hides* | 21:09 |
| * sp3000 wonders if there are any more of those available, ...probably | 21:10 | |
| evilrob | does the underlying package manager really matter considering the platform isn't a command-line based install process? | 21:10 |
| pronto | you can do apt-get install <whatever> | 21:10 |
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| pronto | on maemo | 21:10 |
| evilrob | yes. I know. | 21:11 |
| pronto | plus when ever two projects merge , people are always upset about it | 21:11 |
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| * Mousey is upset | 21:12 | |
| marmoute | +1 | 21:12 |
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| evilrob | my point is that it doesn't really matter unless you're a command-line geek. (I'm a command-line geek) | 21:12 |
| Mousey | stupid intel, tryna piggyback on nokia's success | 21:12 |
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| Mousey | cuz they can't get it up themselves | 21:12 |
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| * Mousey waves fist o/ | 21:12 | |
| dl9pf | evilrob: its just <newpkgmanager> isntall foo | 21:12 |
| marmoute | evilrob: and I choose maemo because I'm a command-line geek. | 21:12 |
| dl9pf | marmoute: see ^^ | 21:13 |
| Mousey | that's like taking something fixed, and replacing it with something broken | 21:13 |
| dl9pf | oh - really ? | 21:13 |
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| evilrob | Mousey: it's taking something working and replacing it with something else that's working. | 21:13 |
| marmoute | I won't be happy to see the only geek compliant cellphone-os to merge into anything else. | 21:13 |
| Mousey | nah | 21:13 |
| luke-jr | Mousey: Nokia's success is mostly marketting anyhow -.- | 21:13 |
| Mousey | apt/dpkg is the best, most mature, package manager system in the known universe. replacing it with -anything- is a downgrade | 21:14 |
| evilrob | itn's not nessicarially needed, but someone somewhere made the business decision | 21:14 |
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| evilrob | Mousey: how long have you been a unix admin? | 21:14 |
| Mousey | evilrob: since about '94 | 21:14 |
| evilrob | my first unix admin job was in 89. quit being a unix admin 3 years ago. | 21:14 |
| luke-jr | hehe, on the other hand... "stupid nokia, tryna piggyback on Linux's success" ;) | 21:15 |
| Mousey | yah, i quit unix years ago | 21:15 |
| LuciusMare | huh,new update? | 21:15 |
| evilrob | dpkg is good. apt was bolted on top | 21:15 |
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| Mousey | crapp/lack of package managers | 21:15 |
| thresh | this is not a technical desision | 21:15 |
| Mousey | evilrob: bolted on top a decade ago | 21:15 |
| luke-jr | apt is deprecated for Debian | 21:15 |
| evilrob | rpm was good. yum was bolted on top | 21:15 |
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| thresh | maemo is run by 'effective managers' | 21:15 |
| Mousey | YUM is scotched taped on top of RPM | 21:15 |
| Mousey | i prefer bolts | 21:15 |
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| luke-jr | why Maemo still uses apt I don't know | 21:15 |
| evilrob | blah blah blah | 21:15 |
| * nid0 tosses in a nano handbook | 21:15 | |
| * RST38h remembers how he upgraded Python in RedHat and the whole rpm system stopped working | 21:16 | |
| luke-jr | lol | 21:16 |
| Mousey | lets just switch to .cabs and InstallSheild | 21:16 |
| Mousey | cuz redhat SUCKs | 21:16 |
| evilrob | how about tarballs | 21:16 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 21:16 |
| Mousey | tarballs are for old people | 21:16 |
| evilrob | how about pkgadd | 21:16 |
| cehteh | i am old :P | 21:16 |
| RST38h | Apparently, RedHat folks forgot to include a "safe" copy of Python to run their own crap | 21:16 |
| Mousey | pkgadd is for tarballs | 21:16 |
| Lumpio- | .msi! | 21:17 |
| Mousey | ew | 21:17 |
| blizzow | tar zxfv package.tgz && configure && make && make install | 21:17 |
| Lumpio- | It is the Industry Standard. | 21:17 |
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| Lumpio- | And part of Microsoft Enterprise Best Practices | 21:17 |
| Mousey | MEBP doesn't even spell anything | 21:17 |
| evilrob | how about installp | 21:17 |
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| Mousey | how about it's 2010 | 21:17 |
| evilrob | yeah. installp is alive and well | 21:18 |
| Mousey | lets use a (meta-)package manager like -real- computer folks | 21:18 |
| evilrob | enterprise package management | 21:18 |
| SystemParadox | IT'S ALIVE! | 21:18 |
| Mousey | what's next SAM | 21:18 |
| Lumpio- | Let's include a LISP interpreter for package management | 21:18 |
| Mousey | SMIT? | 21:18 |
| Lumpio- | And let everyone write their own package manager | 21:18 |
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| Mousey | lets all go back to OS/360 | 21:18 |
| Lumpio- | Packages? What packages? You mean decks of cards? | 21:18 |
| evilrob | well you brought up maturity | 21:18 |
| evilrob | of the package manager. obviously not your own | 21:18 |
| Mousey | maturity and longevity are two different things | 21:19 |
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| RST38h | Lumpio: This has been already done. In AmigaOS. | 21:19 |
| Mousey | just because something is old, doesn't mean it's mature | 21:19 |
| evilrob | my point that you failed to grasp is that the interface the majority of users see isn't the command-line one | 21:19 |
| evilrob | so it doesn't really matter as long as the front end tooling works well | 21:20 |
| Mousey | it matters for those of us who have to -deal- with the majority of users (who don't even know what a command line is) when it's time to fix things that are broken | 21:20 |
| Mousey | so when your mom comes to you cuz her package won't install, and it's not an industry-standard like apt.. then you have a harder time supporting it, and fewer resources to turn to to fix it | 21:21 |
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| Mousey | everybody (in here at least)(probably) knows apt.. and not just in the context of maemo | 21:22 |
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| evilrob | allright. enough of the package manager discussion. if he says anything intelligent, someone else let me know. (I love /ignore) | 21:22 |
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| Mousey | like tar, but more intelligent, apt/dpkg is available on a variety of devices, from mainframes to embedded devices | 21:22 |
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| * Mousey never says anything intelligent | 21:22 | |
| Trizt | still whining about meego uses rpm? | 21:22 |
| Mousey | it uses rpm? that's acceptable | 21:22 |
| LuciusMare | What, meeho uses rpm? >:( | 21:23 |
| Mousey | but rpm < apt | 21:23 |
| LuciusMare | Traitors! | 21:23 |
| Mousey | s/apt/dpkg/ | 21:23 |
| infobot | Mousey meant: but rpm < dpkg | 21:23 |
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| luke-jr | Mousey: but apt is broken and deprecated. | 21:23 |
| Mousey | hahaha | 21:23 |
| LuciusMare | what? | 21:23 |
| LuciusMare | Why? | 21:23 |
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| luke-jr | LuciusMare: which half? :p | 21:23 |
| * Mousey ceases postin' in a troll thread | 21:23 | |
| LuciusMare | heh | 21:23 |
| Trizt | it's just a question about taste and what you are used to, IMHO it should use portage | 21:24 |
| luke-jr | broken, because it fails to properly record user-desired packages | 21:24 |
| luke-jr | deprecated, because it has been replaced by aptitude | 21:24 |
| blizzow | anyone know what's supposed to come in the next "major" maemo update after this 16MB "minor" update I got this morning? | 21:24 |
| LuciusMare | Anyway, i saw several programs with summary like "Used for serial controlling on the usb port" - is it possible on n900? | 21:24 |
| konttori | timeless: wasn't it so that pr1.1.1 has all new browser engine? | 21:24 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 21:24 |
| timeless_mbp | 1.2 has a new engine | 21:24 |
| konttori | really? | 21:24 |
| timeless_mbp | 1.1.1 just has a minor bug fix or 3 | 21:24 |
| timeless_mbp | maybe 10 tops | 21:25 |
| Mousey | aptitude is a front end | 21:25 |
| timeless_mbp | probably closer to 5-7 | 21:25 |
| Mousey | and not as smart as apt | 21:25 |
| Mousey | wait, i'm doing it again | 21:25 |
| * Mousey stops | 21:25 | |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: did you see my bugmail to you <1hr ago? | 21:25 |
| konttori | oh. I thought browser was the main reason to have pr1.1.1 out | 21:25 |
| konttori | no, I don't read email @ home | 21:25 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 21:25 |
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| LuciusMare | Hello-o? | 21:25 |
| jf- | adblock coming for new browser engine? | 21:26 |
| timeless_mbp | jf-: eh? | 21:26 |
| timeless_mbp | the browser is a browser | 21:26 |
| timeless_mbp | adblocking is an addon | 21:26 |
| * frals enjoys checking webserver logs for N900 useragents | 21:26 | |
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| * timeless_mbp tries to get an n900 to actually restore settings | 21:27 | |
| Scelt | timeless_mbp: when 1.2 comes out approx? | 21:27 |
| timeless_mbp | Scelt: before the heat death of the universe | 21:27 |
| jf- | probably current adblock needs update to work with new engine | 21:27 |
| timeless_mbp | ... i hope | 21:27 |
| timeless_mbp | jf-: i sure hope not | 21:27 |
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| Scelt | timeless_mbp: thanks | 21:29 |
| konttori | timeless_mbp: I was trying to contribute a bit to http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: ah | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: spoke to me about it | 21:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | i tried to give him the best info i had | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm w/ sp3000 right now, and he's our integrator | 21:29 |
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| uhsf | from my notebook usb networking works fine, but from my workstation with the same commands: ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.202 port 22: Connection timed out. or No route to host. How is that possible? | 21:30 |
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| LuciusMare | So, no serial over usb at n900? | 21:30 |
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| uhsf | what's no serial? | 21:31 |
| SystemParadox | AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH | 21:31 |
| konttori | I don't have access to the full changelog from home. I would otherwise probably write all of the changes there. | 21:31 |
| SystemParadox | my N900 won't boot :'( | 21:31 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 21:31 |
| konttori | I could ask for ok to also publish the full changelog. As far as I remember it was something less than 50 fixes. | 21:31 |
| LuciusMare | i mean, serial port, for example for controlling servos | 21:32 |
| SystemParadox | it does the nokia screen, does the thing with the dots, then the screen goes blank and the backlight eventually turns off as well | 21:32 |
| uhsf | how to make serial work? | 21:32 |
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| doubleukay | SystemParadox: that happened to me too. I ended up reflashing, losing less than I feared. | 21:32 |
| SystemParadox | All I did was install the debian chroot! I thought that wasn't supposed to break things! | 21:32 |
| LuciusMare | ! | 21:32 |
| LuciusMare | uhsf: i was asking if it was possible | 21:32 |
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| SystemParadox | doubleukay, losing less? How can you reflash without losing everything? | 21:33 |
| pajp | my device doesn't have enough space for the new update... is this space I need on the / partition? in that case, how can I easily check what packages are eating space there? | 21:33 |
| LuciusMare | pajp: wmo, free up rootfs | 21:33 |
| Scelt | pajp: storage usage app | 21:33 |
| uhsf | LuciusMare: it works fine with my notebook and it was working fine with my workstation until today | 21:33 |
| andre__ | konttori, PR1.1.1 wikipage? edits very welcome, thanks! | 21:33 |
| pajp | LuciusMare: wmo? | 21:33 |
| doubleukay | SystemParadox: the only effort I had to put in was reinstalling apps and recustomizing the builtin settings + desktop. the contacts, and app settings, were thankfully still present. | 21:33 |
| LuciusMare | pajp: wiki maemo org | 21:34 |
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| uhsf | LuciusMare: what could have changed after a reboot that broke usb networking so bad? | 21:34 |
| * andre__ wonders where the folks went that normally did this... nokia probably busy with all the meego noise | 21:34 | |
| LuciusMare | wait. | 21:34 |
| doubleukay | SystemParadox: I only reflashed the root device without reflashing the 2GB home partition | 21:34 |
| pajp | LuciusMare: ah ok | 21:34 |
| SystemParadox | doubleukay, did you ever get the debian chroot working? | 21:34 |
| LuciusMare | I was talking about serial (http://nitlogic.net/free-download/serial_port.jpg ) | 21:34 |
| jf- | pr 1.1.1 fix: Disables apt-get from installing ovi store content, is it possible to downgrade apt-get and get content from ovi store free (for example upcoming sygic navigator?) :-D | 21:34 |
| LuciusMare | or somewhat like that :) | 21:34 |
| Lumpio- | I heard the N900 can't act as a USB host | 21:35 |
| Lumpio- | So at the very least you'll need special hardware. | 21:35 |
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| Lumpio- | As in, just any USB to serial adapter will not do. | 21:35 |
| lupine_85 | Lumpio-: compile gadget_serial ? | 21:35 |
| lupine_85 | (kernel module) | 21:35 |
| uhsf | i don't want to hear about that obsolete serial port | 21:35 |
| doubleukay | SystemParadox: yes, I had a false start though. I plugged the usb into the computer and chose "mass storage". when I ran the debian chroot installer it proceeded to fill up the 2GB partition.. which fortunately didn't brick the device | 21:35 |
| Lumpio- | lupine_85: Yes, but does that turn the N900 into a USB host? | 21:36 |
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| Lumpio- | I'd say most if not all the USB to serial adapters out there expect a host to connect to. | 21:36 |
| lupine_85 | Lumpio-: no, it's still a USB gadget | 21:36 |
| doubleukay | SystemParadox: I then went to get a microsd card to install the chroot onto, because I didn't wanna muck around repartitioning the builtin mmc | 21:36 |
| uhsf | my n900 was working fine with usb networking yesterday but today nothing will work | 21:36 |
| Lumpio- | Hence, special hardware. | 21:36 |
| LuciusMare | Why should be usb host needed for usb>serial? | 21:36 |
| lupine_85 | does it even have a usb host controller? | 21:36 |
| Lumpio- | ...no | 21:37 |
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| Lumpio- | At least that's what I heard | 21:37 |
| LuciusMare | well | 21:37 |
| Lumpio- | USB host not doable, on the hardware level. | 21:37 |
| LuciusMare | maybe, but it is disabled by the kernel | 21:37 |
| blizzow | Some of my facebook friends keep duplicating after I merge them with the original contact. I'm wondering if this is related to the extra pidgin protocols, or hermes application. Anyone seen this, and know how to fix it? | 21:37 |
| lupine_85 | Lumpio-: http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/usb/gadget_serial.txt is the closest you'll get, I suspect | 21:37 |
| uhsf | n900 can work with usb networking but i don't have an obsolete serial port on my pc | 21:37 |
| Lumpio- | *Sigh* | 21:38 |
| lupine_85 | I can't see why the bulk i/o wouldn't work | 21:38 |
| konttori | andre__: I have trouble remembering what went in there. It was only the first week of january that we worked on the pr1.1.1. | 21:38 |
| Lumpio- | All I said is that an off-the-shelf USB to serial adapter will probably not work | 21:38 |
| Lumpio- | If you make a USB to serial adapter that has an USB host controller inside it, then yes, it's doable | 21:38 |
| konttori | I only remember it was somehow a requested update release with predefined approved changes | 21:38 |
| LuciusMare | heh | 21:38 |
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| LuciusMare | Lumpio-: but how would it interact with the tablet itself? | 21:39 |
| Vanadis | my n900 lags | 21:39 |
| ensi | holy shit my keyboard app is finally working | 21:39 |
| Lumpio- | LuciusMare: ...via a USB cable | 21:39 |
| konttori | locales for region expansio, opengles for ovi games development, .deb installation to enable ovi paid content delivery | 21:39 |
| Vanadis | in xterm -> "top" | 21:39 |
| Vanadis | i have like 240mb of ram used | 21:39 |
| LuciusMare | heh, i meant, software side | 21:39 |
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| andre__ | konttori, yeah, can imagine...it's ben a while. I had also big trouble yesterday evening to get an overview at all which public bugs were fixed. Took me a while to understand, but timeless was very helpful in explaining some stuff :) | 21:39 |
| Lumpio- | You'll need a driver for it | 21:39 |
| luke-jr | Vanadis: Linux rarely leaves RAM unused | 21:39 |
| Vanadis | okay | 21:39 |
| Lumpio- | I've never heard of such an adapter so I have no idea what | 21:39 |
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| luke-jr | Vanadis: 'cached' is RAM that can be treated as unused ;) | 21:40 |
| Lumpio- | That is, if anyone has even written such a driver before | 21:40 |
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| LuciusMare | Assembly? | 21:40 |
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| Lumpio- | I... take it you're not into kernel development | 21:40 |
| LuciusMare | How did you guess? :P | 21:41 |
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| Lumpio- | Most kernel stuff is written in C | 21:41 |
| luke-jr | LuciusMare: C | 21:41 |
| luke-jr | if Linux was assembly, it wouldn't run on ARM :p | 21:41 |
| LuciusMare | i know linux is written in C | 21:41 |
| LuciusMare | well, mostly C | 21:42 |
| luke-jr | a very big mostly :p | 21:42 |
| LuciusMare | But not all :P | 21:42 |
| luke-jr | probably 0.0001% assembly | 21:42 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: i have no idea which folks are paying attn to meego | 21:42 |
| luke-jr | :p | 21:42 |
| Lumpio- | Some platform specific stuff is written in, yes, ASM. | 21:42 |
| timeless_mbp | afaik most of us aren't, or are at most merely speculating | 21:42 |
| LuciusMare | HA! | 21:42 |
| Lumpio- | But it's avoided for the aforementioned reasons | 21:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | konttori: if you wanna give me instructions for getting a better changelog, i can use the vpn from work to follow directions | 21:43 |
| luke-jr | AFAIK, perhipheral drivers, especially external ones, are NEVER assembly :P | 21:43 |
| LuciusMare | Hm, i think that if someone would go through all the pain with making usb host, he wouldnt make an serial port | 21:43 |
| LuciusMare | s/an/a/ | 21:43 |
| infobot | LuciusMare meant: Hm, i think that if someone would go through all the pain with making usb host, he wouldnt make a serial port | 21:43 |
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| Lumpio- | ...what | 21:44 |
| Lumpio- | Anyways, if you really need that device, start building ;P | 21:45 |
| Lumpio- | There should be microcontrollers with built-in USB host out there | 21:45 |
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| Mousey | Lumpio-: like the N810? | 21:46 |
| LuciusMare | I need half a thousand of people and three speenfeeders even to run one stupid program. | 21:46 |
| LuciusMare | I do not personally think i am the right one to do that :P | 21:47 |
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| LuciusMare | And it is not probably an easy job either. | 21:48 |
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| Lumpio- | Mousey: ;P | 21:50 |
| Lumpio- | LuciusMare: Well, if one is into electronics, something like that should be from the easy end of the scale | 21:50 |
| Lumpio- | ...I'm not really into electronics though | 21:50 |
| Lumpio- | so... | 21:50 |
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| LuciusMare | me neither, but i'd like to. | 21:53 |
| pwnguin | did a new version of maemo drop? | 21:54 |
| RST38h | qgil: In other words, they do not care about anyone present here? | 21:54 |
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| javispedro | hiyo RST38h | 21:55 |
| RST38h | mooo javispedro | 21:55 |
| javispedro | what a "FIX" for the pulseaudio issue. | 21:55 |
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| javispedro | hopefully this is one of the things we won't see with meego. if someone creates yet another private bugzilla for open components and forces andre to be the messenger, I will ensure he gets a slow death. | 21:56 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I am not getting it. Looks like they simply do not have anyone capable of understanding how PA works | 21:56 |
| javispedro | whoever creates the private bugzilla, not andre :P | 21:56 |
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| andre__ | javispedro, +1 | 21:57 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Which is really weird. | 21:57 |
| konttori | javispedro: what pulseaudio fix? | 21:57 |
| javispedro | konttori: bug #5524 | 21:57 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5524 PulseAudio clients are muted and hang on exit when media player is playing music | 21:57 |
| RST38h | konttori: Well, the PA-hangs-on-exit-when-blocked thing | 21:57 |
| monoceros | ahaha I realized now that in the topic there is my image of the maemo's tombstone :D | 21:57 |
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| RST38h | konttori: Instead of fixing it properly, whoever is responsible seems to be erecting workaround on top of workaround | 21:58 |
| andre__ | for bug 5524 it would be REALLY great if some developers would leave their black box and comment directly in bugs.mameo.org | 21:58 |
| konttori | javispedro: comment 31 says that media player playback should not stall sdl, but still, phone call will | 21:59 |
| konttori | I think that's perfectly ok strategy, do you disagree? | 21:59 |
| RST38h | konttori: that is not an issue | 21:59 |
| RST38h | konttori: I am personally ok even if the media player stalls SDL | 21:59 |
| javispedro | konttori: ok, that's the bit of clarification I wanted :) | 21:59 |
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| RST38h | konttori: The problem is that SDL (or any other application with stalled PA) cannot quit while its PA is being blocked by higher priority PA | 22:00 |
| ensi | if one wants to have his application come up in the list of available applications in the n900 application installer what kind of submission process does one have to go through? | 22:00 |
| konttori | yeah, I really hate some things about our policy. | 22:00 |
| RST38h | konttori: But it is not even about the policy! | 22:00 |
| RST38h | konttori: here is how it goes | 22:01 |
| konttori | first being that if you are in silent mode, apps need to request for access for audio. | 22:01 |
| RST38h | konttori: There is a thread that plays sound. That thread requests audio access at the beginning, then spins in a loop playing audio and checking the quit variable | 22:01 |
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| RST38h | konttori: Now, in the current Fremantle when someone else plays higher priority audiom this thread hangs at the start and never gets a chance to exit | 22:02 |
| konttori | well, media player should play at lowest prio, imho. | 22:02 |
| RST38h | konttori: The solution is pretty simple: DO NOT completely block at the start. Check for *both* audio becoming available *and* the quit flag | 22:02 |
| RST38h | konttori: This way even if you do not get a chance to play audio, you can still quit | 22:03 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: doesn't it also hang if you start mediaplayer _after_ the pa mainloop? | 22:03 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Probably | 22:03 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Either way, it simply blocks. Hard. | 22:03 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: should be avoidable by blocking with a timeout of a few seconds. | 22:04 |
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| javispedro | so, if the media player priority part's been fixed, remove all my crap from the bug and rename it to something more technical, like "libpulse's mainloop hangs when audio disabled/muted" | 22:05 |
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| RST38h | the priority thing isn't even a bug, it is more of a policy thing | 22:09 |
| RST38h | but the hangup is a bug | 22:09 |
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| red | media player no longer skips while browsing? | 22:09 |
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| RST38h | never did for me | 22:10 |
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| RST38h | only when establishing gprs connection which I can survive | 22:10 |
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| red | it's not that bad vs mediabox skipping when anything happends | 22:10 |
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| smhar | so, will we ever have a new maemo release? will the new Meego run on N900 too? http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/meego-nokia-and-intel-merge-maemo-and-moblin | 22:12 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: when the builtin games have preference over the "policy", then it's a bug :) but yes, I shouldn't have merged the policy issue with the bug it was causing. | 22:12 |
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| Scelt | damn | 22:14 |
| Scelt | locales are taking 28 MB of rootfs even I'd need max to two locales | 22:14 |
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| konttori | Scelt: that's compressed by ubifs | 22:16 |
| konttori | the actual size is just 3 megs | 22:16 |
| Scelt | oh, okay | 22:17 |
| wolf^ | konttori, 3 megs blocking us from doing firmware update ;p | 22:17 |
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| RST38h | hehe | 22:17 |
| Scelt | http://maemo-experience.blogspot.com/2010/02/free-up-space-on-rootfs.html | 22:18 |
| Scelt | how about that? | 22:18 |
| Arif | stop poking around in extras-devel | 22:18 |
| Arif | :p | 22:18 |
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| Scelt | verified? | 22:18 |
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| tybollt | hmm what os does crackberries use? | 22:20 |
| koala_man | is it the rootfs you have to free up space on to install the update? | 22:20 |
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| glyph | tybollt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry#Operating_system | 22:20 |
| Arif | Crackberry OS? | 22:20 |
| Scelt | koala_man: yeah | 22:20 |
| Scelt | koala_man: you need around 42-44 MB | 22:20 |
| RST38h | Crackberry has an OS? Stunning | 22:20 |
| Arif | it can multitask | 22:21 |
| Arif | it can open a word document and MSN at the same time! | 22:21 |
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| vmlemon_ | tybollt: Some proprietary Java-based crap | 22:22 |
| koala_man | will uninstalling stuff free up space on the rootfs? doesn't appear to help | 22:22 |
| nid0 | uninstalling extras apps wont | 22:22 |
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| nid0 | -devel and -testing stuff will | 22:22 |
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| nid0 | disabling those repos will as well | 22:23 |
| Scelt | koala_man: apt-get clean - emptied 4 MB for me | 22:23 |
| Arif | you can also flash with NSU! | 22:23 |
| Scelt | no you can't! it's not so 1337! | 22:23 |
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| nid0 | I cant anyway :< | 22:23 |
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| Arif | or use the flasher! | 22:24 |
| nid0 | stupid uk product code | 22:24 |
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| greenfly | koala_man: if you have a lot of themes installed, remove ones you don't use or move them from /usr/share/themes to your home directory temporarily | 22:24 |
| * wazd 's gonna kill everybody with flash meego UI concept :) | 22:24 | |
| greenfly | koala_man: also some apps are worse than others about taking up root space (abiword) | 22:24 |
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| koala_man | thanks, I've got it going now on 43.8mb free | 22:27 |
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| evilrob | woot! my n900 just shipped. should be here tomorrow | 22:28 |
| ml-mobile | cool | 22:28 |
| Shrik3 | happy meego day | 22:28 |
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| konttori | oh, so odd to see the DUI video pulled off | 22:28 |
| konttori | as well as blog posts pulled off | 22:28 |
| evilrob | yeah... the day I push the button the order, they announce meego. | 22:28 |
| jsa_ | konttori: Yeah, wondered about the same thing, where did they go? | 22:29 |
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| mashiara | btw, anyone have a good idea on how to questimate the theoretical speed at the gprs interface at given time | 22:29 |
| Arif | I want a keyboardless N900 | 22:29 |
| mashiara | as in when connected in 3G mode but user has 1mbit subscription | 22:30 |
| nid0 | I want an n900 with a decent keyboard :( | 22:30 |
| konttori | jsa_: yeah, really odd. | 22:30 |
| jsa_ | Watched it once, the second time I tried it was pulled. | 22:30 |
| Kegetys | just dont slide it out ;) | 22:30 |
| mashiara | then going to edge and to gprs | 22:30 |
| konttori | jsa_: you have it cached? | 22:30 |
| evilrob | Arif: superglue | 22:30 |
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| mashiara | (i'd suppose the GSM state changes are announced on DBUS) | 22:30 |
| Arif | a phone that's a bit thinner too! :P | 22:30 |
| konttori | anyway, I also saw it earlier. it was pretty good video | 22:30 |
| konttori | guys at the office are really excited about dui | 22:30 |
| Arif | then again, I come from the N95 :D | 22:30 |
| evilrob | Arif: oh well... now you say that :) | 22:30 |
| * konttori still believes it has too many widgets, but that's just him. | 22:31 | |
| Scelt | konttori: DUI = "Driving Under the Influence"? | 22:31 |
| konttori | yeah, that toolkit | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | Scelt: Developing, obviously | 22:31 |
| * Arif glues evilrob's N900 camera shutter | 22:31 | |
| RST38h | konttori: have they resolved the symbian duplication problem already? | 22:32 |
| Scelt | konttori: nice, I like it | 22:32 |
| konttori | RST38h: you mean orbit? | 22:32 |
| * GeneralAntilles gives up on scrollback. | 22:32 | |
| RST38h | konttori: yes | 22:32 |
| RST38h | General: Not much to see there anyway | 22:32 |
| * Arif empties GeneralAntilles' rootfs | 22:33 | |
| konttori | ah, well, as totally unofficial comment, I really don't know what to thing. | 22:33 |
| konttori | s/thing/think | 22:33 |
| matthew- | Hmmm, any1 wants to earn some cash? | 22:33 |
| Arif | how much cash? | 22:33 |
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| evilrob | and will there be bodies to hide? | 22:34 |
| javispedro | oh no, yet another business proposal over the rpm vs deb flame war? | 22:34 |
| matthew- | javispedro: no no | 22:34 |
| matthew- | Just need to run Citrix on maemo. | 22:34 |
| Arif | citrwhat? | 22:34 |
| RST38h | javispedro: no, he is probably just looking for a kidney... | 22:34 |
| matthew- | Arif: Citrix | 22:34 |
| evilrob | yeah. which citrix product | 22:34 |
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| matthew- | http://www.citrix.com/English/SS/downloads/details.asp?downloadID=3323&productID=-1 | 22:34 |
| Arif | never heard of it ;P | 22:34 |
| matthew- | for ARM Processor devices | 22:35 |
| matthew- | probably this one. | 22:35 |
| konttori | javispedro: why did we even have such a war? It's only packaging. | 22:35 |
| * konttori hides | 22:35 | |
| Arif | looks boring | 22:35 |
| asj_ | konttori: you expecting any releases after pr1.2? | 22:35 |
| konttori | yeah | 22:35 |
| * mashiara has been making RPMs and DEBs | 22:35 | |
| javispedro | matthew-: I'd ask Citrix... | 22:35 |
| konttori | pr1.3 scheduled some time before, or around summer | 22:35 |
| matthew- | javispedro: I did | 22:35 |
| mashiara | debs require a lot more diligence, this is not a bad thing | 22:36 |
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| matthew- | hcarrega: Maemo not supported. | 22:36 |
| konttori | (you know, the usual, no confirmation of dates) | 22:36 |
| asj_ | konttori: ok cool | 22:36 |
| matthew- | javispedro: ^^ that was to you | 22:36 |
| thresh | "debs require a lot more diligence" lol why | 22:36 |
| konttori | well, major release for that time | 22:36 |
| hcarrega | matthew-: ? | 22:36 |
| konttori | something might come in between. pr1.2.1. | 22:36 |
| konttori | but no such thing is planned atm | 22:36 |
| thresh | you can easily screw up spec files as well | 22:36 |
| javispedro | konttori: it's not actually a deb vs rpm war, as the more mentally capable combatants ;) have already stated -- it's something weirder about "the debian way". | 22:36 |
| konttori | and then after pr1.3 comer pr1.4 in autumn | 22:37 |
| mashiara | sure, of course it's just IMO | 22:37 |
| jacekowski | i don't like .rpm | 22:37 |
| evilrob | matthew-: vnc to another box that is running your citrix client then | 22:37 |
| Scelt | konttori: what's your position at the Nokia? or are you just a nameless informant? ;) | 22:37 |
| jacekowski | maybe it's just because of fedora that i'm fed up with | 22:37 |
| matthew- | evilrob: not quick/responsive enough | 22:37 |
| thresh | technology has got nothing to do with clueless maintainers | 22:37 |
| thresh | which fedora is full of | 22:37 |
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| jacekowski | well, most of them are red had maintainers | 22:38 |
| jacekowski | part of them* | 22:38 |
| jacekowski | i would really like to see gentoo like package manager | 22:38 |
| mashiara | I don't know if it's the "complexity" debian packaging or what that seems to keep debian maintainers on a higher level than some RPM based distributions | 22:38 |
| thresh | yeah, like RH only hires geniuses and robots | 22:38 |
| jacekowski | esspecialy that it's pretty much standard hardware | 22:38 |
| jacekowski | so it could use binary packages | 22:39 |
| thresh | mashiara: i cant see debian/ any more complex than .spec | 22:39 |
| jacekowski | however all modifications would be easier | 22:39 |
| thresh | everything is basically the same | 22:39 |
| javispedro | mashiara: I am under the impression that the typical rpm spec file "invites" people to reinvent the wheel. | 22:39 |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, rebuilding everything for a month on the device, because some library changed? ;> | 22:39 |
| thresh | what's not easy about vim debian/rules, say? | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=530500&postcount=1 <- finally a candidate that knows what he wants to do | 22:39 |
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| * RST38h screams "pkg_add!" and hides, quickly | 22:40 | |
| thresh | brb gotta have some pastis and ice rady | 22:40 |
| thresh | ready | 22:40 |
| konttori | Scelt: I'm heading OS & Middleware (including af) for Fremantle | 22:40 |
| thresh | RST38h: ahah | 22:40 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: as it's same hardware on all phones - it could be build somewhere on fast distcc cluster | 22:40 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: he's got my vote! and my wallet! | 22:40 |
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| jacekowski | wolf^: and phone would have access to binpackages | 22:40 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: and .ebuilds | 22:40 |
| Scelt | konttori: cool | 22:40 |
| * Arif waits for more maemo 5 games | 22:40 | |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, but you know, official packages wouldn't be built with -O99 ;> | 22:40 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: why? | 22:41 |
| Scelt | Arif: angry birds is an awesome game | 22:41 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: official packages could be built with all optimisations | 22:41 |
| Arif | "more" | 22:41 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: as there are only 4 or 5 maemo devices | 22:41 |
| Arif | I'm bored of that already | 22:41 |
| Arif | ;( | 22:41 |
| thresh | oh right, optimisations | 22:41 |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, because the highest optimization level recognized by gcc is -O3 | 22:41 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: that could be changed | 22:41 |
| thresh | how could anyone forgot about it | 22:41 |
| javispedro | the other day I saw that some random package in the debian archive was built with "-O4" | 22:41 |
| thresh | :( | 22:41 |
| Scelt | Arif: I know. just a btw info | 22:41 |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, but some gentoo folks think that passing -O6 or -O9 makes the apps faster | 22:41 |
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| thresh | but it does | 22:41 |
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| thresh | seriously. | 22:42 |
| Arif | Angry Birds is awesome | 22:42 |
| Arif | I want the level pack | 22:42 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: it's not about optimisations | 22:42 |
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| konttori | I think most of the new games will be published at the pr1.2 launch | 22:42 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: it's about ease of making your own package or modifing existing one | 22:42 |
| Scelt | Arif: have you played thru the one found in maemo.org? | 22:42 |
| thresh | jacekowski: i think there is a whole new world of OpenEmbedded for you | 22:42 |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, I know, I'm just making fun of gentoo | 22:42 |
| Arif | Scelt, no? | 22:42 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: and IMO portage beats rpm and deb | 22:42 |
| Arif | I only played the one from ovi store | 22:42 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: in that matter | 22:42 |
| Scelt | Arif: a user made level pack of 10 levels. it was nice | 22:42 |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, haven't used, no comment on that | 22:43 |
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| * Arif runs to the forums | 22:43 | |
| Arif | hmm | 22:43 |
| jacekowski | wolf^: and as portage support prebuild binary packages it would be nice solution | 22:43 |
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| Arif | no one has created a GUI for the LED modding yet either! :P | 22:43 |
| nid0 | still no sign of the /203 and /205 update I see :< | 22:43 |
| jacekowski | so people that want standard OS will use nokia provided .tar.bz2 packages | 22:43 |
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| jacekowski | and somebody who want to modify it would use other packages | 22:44 |
| jacekowski | or build his own | 22:44 |
| konttori | nid0: you need to contact your operator and ask them to release the update. | 22:44 |
| jacekowski | and it would automaticaly solve dependencies what has to be rebuilt and what can be left alone | 22:44 |
| nid0 | it's not operator locked | 22:44 |
| Scelt | Arif: http://mobileinfo.nomadsnirvana.com/2010/02/02/angrybirds-custom-levels | 22:45 |
| nid0 | 203 is the uk product code | 22:45 |
| matthew- | hmmm | 22:45 |
| nid0 | sold directly by nokia | 22:45 |
| matthew- | Nokia-N900-42-11:/home/user/MyDocs/Citrix# chmod +x setupwfc | 22:45 |
| matthew- | Nokia-N900-42-11:/home/user/MyDocs/Citrix# ls -la | 22:45 |
| matthew- | -rw-r--r-- 1 user root 19714 Feb 8 15:49 setupwfc | 22:45 |
| * javispedro purchases 7000 brownie points | 22:45 | |
| javispedro | number #! | 22:45 |
| matthew- | and then i get -sh: ./setupwfc: Permission denied | 22:45 |
| Arif | hmm | 22:45 |
| javispedro | oneone! | 22:45 |
| Arif | that'll keep me busy on the way to school I guess | 22:45 |
| konttori | ah, well, country managers get to decide what goes out in their country (for country variants) | 22:45 |
| matthew- | why is it so retarded? | 22:45 |
| thresh | jacekowski: why don't you just modify existing packages? | 22:45 |
| thresh | right now | 22:45 |
| konttori | nid0: so, contact nokia UK :D | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | thresh: it's easier to modify .ebuild | 22:45 |
| thresh | no | 22:45 |
| javispedro | matthew-: try moving it to home instead of MyDocs. | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | thresh: than to modify .deb | 22:45 |
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| thresh | that's just not true | 22:46 |
| javispedro | matthew-: MyDocs is FAT, and noexec. | 22:46 |
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| konttori | anyway, I'm we'll rollout pr1.2 everywhere | 22:46 |
| konttori | and you don't miss much with pr1.1.1 | 22:46 |
| jacekowski | thresh: and if i want to use different version of library i would have to rebuild all other packages by hand | 22:46 |
| jacekowski | thresh: while portage can do it for me | 22:46 |
| Scelt | konttori: any schedule for pr1.2? | 22:46 |
| thresh | no you don't | 22:46 |
| matthew- | javispedro: ah, ok | 22:46 |
| thresh | just make a new package with new library | 22:46 |
| konttori | Scelt yes there is | 22:46 |
| jacekowski | another version == binary incompatible version | 22:46 |
| thresh | and rebuild whatever you need | 22:47 |
| konttori | no, I cannot share it with you | 22:47 |
| thresh | 'binary incompatible version' means a new soname | 22:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | konttori, fingers crossed for another round of community beta testing. | 22:47 |
| konttori | plan is to have one | 22:47 |
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| jacekowski | thresh: sometimes yes | 22:47 |
| jacekowski | thresh: sometimes differences are bigger | 22:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, 28MB free and this stupid update still complains about not enough free space. . . . | 22:47 |
| Scelt | konttori: but hey, sharing is caring! | 22:47 |
| thresh | if it doesnt mean that, than the library is screwed | 22:47 |
| thresh | and no one should use that | 22:47 |
| Scelt | GeneralAntilles: 44 MB needed | 22:47 |
| nid0 | GeneralAntilles - 42mb free ish needed | 22:48 |
| frals | GeneralAntilles: i needed 40+ | 22:48 |
| jacekowski | thresh: everybody uses openssl | 22:48 |
| thresh | and someone should probably hit the developer with something huge | 22:48 |
| * GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk. | 22:48 | |
| thresh | yeah that's why ssl has sonames | 22:48 |
| thresh | or you can hand-craft one, if you really need to | 22:48 |
| RST38h | General: Remove libqt4-core | 22:48 |
| * Arif suggest GeneralAntilles doesn't poke around in devel :P | 22:48 | |
| konttori | GeneralAntilles: check backlog. I sent a nice shell script to free space. | 22:48 |
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| thresh | anyway assassin's creed time | 22:48 |
| jacekowski | thresh: so you would end up with 2 different versions of openssl | 22:48 |
| konttori | that was around 9 hours ago. | 22:49 |
| RST38h | General: In fact, you should try installing it in apt-get, because HAM fails with no diagnostics | 22:49 |
| jacekowski | thresh: and you can't tell apt to rebuild it packages depending on it | 22:49 |
| konttori | from my nokia me | 22:49 |
| matthew- | [default /usr/lib/ICAClient] | 22:49 |
| thresh | s/fails with no diagnostics/sucks/ | 22:49 |
| jacekowski | thresh: while you can tell portage to do it | 22:49 |
| matthew- | where should I install it?:D | 22:49 |
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| matthew- | just /home ? | 22:49 |
| RST38h | konttori: The Qt conflict is undiagnosable unless you run apt-get | 22:49 |
| thresh | i'm sure you can launch pbuilder or whatever to do the rebuild | 22:49 |
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| RST38h | konttori: No record in the HAM log, no mention of the actual problem in the dialog box | 22:49 |
| javispedro | see! .deb sucks! | 22:49 |
| * javispedro runs away | 22:50 | |
| konttori | RST38h: yeah, that sucks | 22:50 |
| ifreq | lots of runners today | 22:50 |
| * ifreq reload the shotgun | 22:50 | |
| konttori | RST38h: what was the issue for you? | 22:50 |
| RST38h | konttori: libqt | 22:50 |
| konttori | what about that? | 22:50 |
| RST38h | konttori: thresh has given the good advice | 22:50 |
| thresh | i couldnt guess what was the issue, i've just ran apt-get dist-upgrade and it went fine | 22:50 |
| fnordianslip | is it a coincidence, or has the problem I was having with audio breakup under high load been fixed in todays update? | 22:50 |
| thresh | however HAM was itching and wouldnt upgrade | 22:51 |
| RST38h | konttori: Before updating pr1.1.1, remove libqt4-core with apt-get | 22:51 |
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| konttori | RST38h: why? | 22:51 |
| thresh | actually that was an advice to save up some space, not to fix conflicts =) | 22:51 |
| ShadowJK | fnordianslip, I get that under heavy I/O load. The swapfile and such wont be as fragmented right after reboot, so it wouldn't be as noticeable | 22:51 |
| RST38h | konttori: because otherwise HAM fails | 22:51 |
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| ShadowJK | I thought libqt4-core depended on that maemo-pr package thing.. | 22:51 |
| RST38h | konttori: furthermore, I got to a state where pr1.1.1 did not show up in HAM at all, so I installed it with apt-get as well | 22:52 |
| konttori | RST38h: only for you | 22:52 |
| thresh | it's vice-versa actually | 22:52 |
| RST38h | konttori: me and thresh at least | 22:52 |
| thresh | nooooo | 22:52 |
| ShadowJK | thresh, oops, yeah, that's what I meant | 22:52 |
| thresh | it was not the issue for me | 22:52 |
| konttori | hmm... did you guys have some app that had exact dependency?? | 22:52 |
| RST38h | konttori: but somehow I do not believe I am special: had a pretty standard qt4.5 install | 22:52 |
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| thresh | i never fully removed libqt4-core | 22:52 |
| RST38h | no, no exact dependencies afaik, or ANY dependencies on qt | 22:52 |
| RST38h | I had qtirreco for a while but removed it long ago | 22:53 |
| konttori | I really wonder, as pr1.1.1 didn't even have qt updates | 22:53 |
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| ShadowJK | RST38h: | 22:53 |
| ShadowJK | # apt-cache rdepends libqt4-core|grep fremantle | 22:53 |
| ShadowJK | mp-fremantle-generic-pr | 22:53 |
| ShadowJK | mp-fremantle-generic-pr | 22:53 |
| fnordianslip | ShadowJK: you may be right, but it seemed more related to cpu load than swapping for me, although that wasn't based on firm evidence. for example, modest checking for mail would cause lengthy audio dropouts. | 22:53 |
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| thresh | maemo-pr-whatever thingide depends on libqt4-core | 22:53 |
| thresh | thinge | 22:53 |
| thresh | this probably explains why RST didnt had it on HAM | 22:53 |
| RST38h | aha, and I had the wrong version? | 22:53 |
| konttori | thresh: thats the meta-package | 22:53 |
| fnordianslip | ShadowJK: Noted mostly with panucci playing | 22:53 |
| thresh | he removed m-f-g-p | 22:53 |
| RST38h | no, no i only removed libqt4-core | 22:54 |
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| konttori | if you removed that, you had to remove the meta-package as well | 22:54 |
| ShadowJK | fnordianslip, I don't think any of the CPU widgets make a distinction between busy CPU and CPU idle due to waiting on I/O to complete | 22:54 |
| konttori | as that has strict dependency to the libqt4-core | 22:54 |
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| RST38h | konttori: I really do not know what happened. Never removed the metapackage | 22:55 |
| RST38h | konttori: there was another curious thing though | 22:55 |
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| bennypr0fane | hello, I'm trying to install the new maemo update, but it says not enough memory. can anybody help me with that? | 22:55 |
| RST38h | konttori: As it offed libqt4-core, apt-get immediately upgraded wl1251 driver and qt4.5 | 22:56 |
| RST38h | konttori: to newer versions | 22:56 |
| fnordianslip | ShadowJK: ok. I'll keep that in mind when/if i notice the problem again | 22:56 |
| RST38h | konttori: and then I could not find the pr1.1.1 in ham and had to install it with apt-get as well | 22:56 |
| konttori | well, metapackage is probably not installed in your syste | 22:56 |
| konttori | some previous apt-get activity has removed it | 22:57 |
| RST38h | weird | 22:57 |
| RST38h | but it should be installed now, right? | 22:57 |
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| fnordianslip | ShadowJK: oh well. the dropouts are back. | 22:58 |
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| konttori | RST38h: only if you manually installed the meta-package | 22:59 |
| konttori | mp-fremantle-generic-pr | 23:00 |
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| RST38h | I did | 23:00 |
| konttori | ah, well, then you have it | 23:01 |
| konttori | and pr1.2 will install nicely. | 23:01 |
| * RST38h keeps fingers crossed | 23:01 | |
| konttori | atm, it looks like the space need is at 30 megs, but we are working on decreasing it still | 23:01 |
| bennypr0fane | I mean how can there be not enough memory for downloading 16,2 MB? I don't get it... | 23:01 |
| ShadowJK | bennypr0fane, df -h | grep rootfs | 23:02 |
| Scelt | df -h / | 23:02 |
| konttori | bennypr0fane: it's failure in application managers logic | 23:02 |
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| ShadowJK | Scelt, even better :) | 23:02 |
| iPeter- | When will come new update to maemo 5, anyone? | 23:02 |
| bennypr0fane | shadowJK pardon? | 23:02 |
| Scelt | ShadowJK: :) just easier to write since you gotta get | all the away from sym-menu :P | 23:02 |
| ShadowJK | bennypr0fane, as in, how much free space do you have on / ? | 23:02 |
| Scelt | iPeter-: today did | 23:03 |
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| bennypr0fane | ah | 23:03 |
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| bennypr0fane | i enter that command in the console? | 23:03 |
| iPeter- | Scelt: Bigger than 16.2mb? I did understand it is a update to get that bigger one, or? | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | bennypr0fane, yeah, df -h / | 23:03 |
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| Scelt | http://www.youtube.com/nokiaconversations#p/u/0/K7lHPX_iHKs - that's nice | 23:04 |
| bennypr0fane | Used 190,5 available 33,2M | 23:05 |
| Scelt | bennypr0fane: 10 more megs, tru apt-get clean | 23:05 |
| Scelt | try | 23:05 |
| ShadowJK | bennypr0fane, do you have extras-testing or extras-devel enabled? | 23:05 |
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| bennypr0fane | yes | 23:05 |
| bennypr0fane | both | 23:06 |
| bennypr0fane | boy, i didn't think it was so crowded | 23:06 |
| ShadowJK | Go into application manager, application catalogue from the menu (you probably know where it is since you've added them), and uncheck the "Enabled" for both, making them kinda darker/greyed/blurred in the list | 23:06 |
| ShadowJK | That will free up some memory, extras-devel is gigantic | 23:06 |
| bennypr0fane | ah, didn't know that | 23:06 |
| ShadowJK | They come with a warning for a reason ;-) | 23:07 |
| SpeedEvil | also - rebooting may free disk | 23:07 |
| SpeedEvil | or go to shell, and type sync | 23:07 |
| SpeedEvil | as root | 23:07 |
| bennypr0fane | what does that do? | 23:07 |
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| Scelt | 14Mrepository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle_free_binary-armel_Packages | 23:08 |
| Scelt | damn that's a lot | 23:08 |
| SpeedEvil | ubifs frees disk only after some events. | 23:08 |
| Scelt | found in /var/lib/apt/lists | 23:08 |
| SpeedEvil | sync and reboot are two, there are probably ohters | 23:08 |
| bennypr0fane | how do i become root? | 23:09 |
| Scelt | type in root | 23:09 |
| bennypr0fane | do i need to do anything firsT? | 23:09 |
| Scelt | after installing rootsh | 23:09 |
| bennypr0fane | ok | 23:09 |
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| ShadowJK | (rebooting is easier) | 23:10 |
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| bennypr0fane | gee, I thought the swap partition could help with this kind of problem | 23:11 |
| bennypr0fane | ShadowJK done | 23:11 |
| ShadowJK | bennypr0fane, it's actually the operating system storage device... Badly behaved apps from extras-devel and extras-testing may consume too much space there, you've probably installed one of those.. | 23:12 |
| Scelt | like abiword or pokerth | 23:12 |
| bennypr0fane | not just one, i'm afraid | 23:12 |
| thorbjorn | Or tmw! Bad bad bad. | 23:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Scelt, somebody really needs to optify libboost | 23:12 |
| bennypr0fane | more like 5-10 | 23:13 |
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| bennypr0fane | none of the ones you mentioned though | 23:13 |
| Scelt | GeneralAntilles: yeah. I found out that "libicu40" and checked out it's trace. damn it took much space from the wrong place | 23:13 |
| Scelt | GeneralAntilles: I mean all the libs pokerth needs. libboost etc. | 23:14 |
| thorbjorn | Hmm, that nick looks like Genitals... | 23:14 |
| thorbjorn | I'll be off to bed. | 23:14 |
| Scelt | :-D | 23:14 |
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| Scelt | there you go, sir | 23:14 |
| thorbjorn | I'm starting to say silly stuff. :P | 23:14 |
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| simula_ | have the cpp dev tools been optified? | 23:16 |
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| bennypr0fane | ok, now i have 51,4MB. will that suffice? | 23:16 |
| nid0 | yeh | 23:16 |
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| bennypr0fane | do you guys it will ever be safe to install debian apps to Maemo 5? As in moving them to Mameo extras? | 23:19 |
| bennypr0fane | *do you think | 23:19 |
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| * GeneralAntilles sighs. | 23:19 | |
| GeneralAntilles | So much spam | 23:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | 93 new emails in my inbox in about 8 hours. | 23:19 |
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| bennypr0fane | GeneralAntilles oh, i'm glad you weren't talking to me | 23:20 |
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| Scelt | hey guys, damn! there's a new episode of the big bang theory available | 23:21 |
| thresh | seriously? i'ts March 1 now ? | 23:23 |
| thresh | it's | 23:23 |
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| Scelt | wat! | 23:23 |
| Scelt | is there a break too? | 23:23 |
| thresh | yes | 23:23 |
| bennypr0fane | and: is there a virtual keyboard layout in German that has arrow keys? I love the virtual keyboard, but i find it terrible hard to place the cursor right to correct a typo | 23:23 |
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| Scelt | thresh: : | 23:24 |
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| Scelt | thresh: :''( | 23:24 |
| Scelt | thresh: all the series on the break. wtf wrong with the usa | 23:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, it's not a writer's strike this time. ;) | 23:25 |
| pwnguin | did anyone ever figure out how to identify large & poorly optified packages? | 23:25 |
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| Arif | US shows never air ;P | 23:34 |
| RevdKathy | G'night all | 23:35 |
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| * Jaffa tries to catch up with the last 24 hours of tmo | 23:37 | |
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| matthew- | how can I install libXaw.so ? | 23:37 |
| Arif | Jaffa, have fun reading the new firmware thread | 23:38 |
| Arif | :p | 23:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I gave up. | 23:39 |
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| Arif | hmm | 23:41 |
| Arif | I need a microUSB cable for on the go | 23:42 |
| Arif | will any cable work for the N900? | 23:42 |
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| pajp | Arif: yeah I just bought an off-the-shelf micro-usb cable for my n900 | 23:43 |
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| Arif | I think I'll just order one from DX | 23:43 |
| Arif | :D | 23:43 |
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| SystemParadox | what was up with miniUSB anyway? Why did they have to create a new connector type? | 23:46 |
| Scelt | different shape | 23:46 |
| SystemParadox | it's wider | 23:46 |
| SystemParadox | that's all | 23:46 |
| Arif | it's way thinner? | 23:46 |
| ShadowJK | The components that wear out are supposed to be on the plug not the receptor, too | 23:46 |
| SystemParadox | oh sorry it is thinner- I was thinking of something else | 23:47 |
| Lumpio- | It's a conspiracy to sell more cables | 23:47 |
| Lumpio- | Mark my words | 23:47 |
| Arif | I found one for $3.something! | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | SystemParadox, it uses 50% less space. | 23:47 |
| Scelt | Arif: CA-146C? | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | SystemParadox, it's also about 5 times more durable. | 23:47 |
| Arif | no, some fake one | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Actually 5-10. | 23:47 |
| Scelt | Arif: genuine for under the 3 $ | 23:48 |
| nid0 | its about twice as durable as mini-usb, according to the standard | 23:48 |
| Arif | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26313 | 23:48 |
| nid0 | and a little smaller | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | You can get CA-101s on Amazon for a few bucks a piece. | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I got 5 for $10 shipped. | 23:48 |
| Scelt | Arif: sorry, wrong part. I meant CA-101 | 23:48 |
| Scelt | Arif: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.23193 | 23:49 |
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| Arif | oo | 23:49 |
| Arif | even cheaper! | 23:49 |
| Scelt | ye | 23:49 |
| pupnik | i wish konttori_work could ... waitaminute, he's not supposed to be working now | 23:49 |
| pupnik | could get a cable design change so there's less of a lever-arm on the usb port | 23:50 |
| Scelt | switzerland made a goal againts USA. well done boys! | 23:50 |
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| Arif | can you get that thing on the left side off? | 23:50 |
| Scelt | your left arm? | 23:51 |
| pupnik | yeah look at that cable Scelt. now imagine if the flexible wire went right up to the metal plug | 23:51 |
| Arif | the cable :P | 23:51 |
| Arif | the plastic thingy | 23:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Arif, you could cut it off | 23:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arif, but it's useful | 23:51 |
| Scelt | Arif: brute force | 23:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-CA101-Connectivity-Cable/dp/B000VIT0WK | 23:51 |
| Chiku | will this chan rename meego? | 23:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Chiku, no | 23:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | See #meego | 23:52 |
| Arif | List Price: $34.95 | 23:52 |
| Arif | Price: $1.42 | 23:52 |
| Arif | lol | 23:52 |
| pupnik | they should gall it glarpstrond, or quisquiptyuk | 23:52 |
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| pupnik | femfroozleblat | 23:52 |
| Chiku | there are alot people on meego chan too | 23:53 |
| pupnik | <- marketing genius | 23:53 |
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| red | how much free rootfs does the new update need? details says 12.7, i have 33 but still it says not enough memory | 23:53 |
| Scelt | 42+ | 23:53 |
| nid0 | 42mb | 23:53 |
| ds3 | in the light of recent changes, where is Mer going to go? | 23:53 |
| red | k | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | ds3, Stskeeps seems to be thinking backport for N8x0 and N900 (if Nokia doesn't do it themselves). | 23:54 |
| vmlemon_ | Chimnitz | 23:54 |
| Chiku | what is Mer? | 23:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~mer | 23:54 |
| infobot | it has been said that mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer | 23:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Open Source distribution of Maemo, basically. | 23:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ubuntu + Maemo = Mer | 23:54 |
| greenfly | do you pronounce it "Mair" or "Mur" ? | 23:55 |
| red | i think meer | 23:55 |
| GAN900 | Depends on who you ask | 23:55 |
| ds3 | GA: but is Mer going to follow and assume Moblin features in the future or is Mer forking? | 23:56 |
| evilrob | I pronounce it mer | 23:56 |
| GAN900 | Mair is probably more "accurate" | 23:56 |
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| Chiku | meer like beer | 23:56 |
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| GAN900 | greenfly, I usually just Americanize it because I'm lazy | 23:57 |
| greenfly | yeah, that's more or less what I do for maemo | 23:57 |
| GAN900 | Maemo I use the Finnish/Spanish pronunciation | 23:58 |
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| GAN900 | Since it clearly sounds better. | 23:58 |
| Stskeeps | ds3: encouraging people to join meego. bigger, similar goals or ability to help get things there. | 23:58 |
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| Scelt | GAN900: Finnish is good ;) | 23:59 |
| ds3 | Stskeeps: but is there a clear path for ARM based machines or will Intel's influence preclude that? | 23:59 |
| mashiara | whoa the rules/control on the pr1.1.1 source package was even more broken than I though | 23:59 |
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