| Shapeshifter | mak89k: for python I recommend the official tutorial (http://docs.python.org/tutorial/) and I don't know any pyside tuts as I learned using qt with pyqt, but I'm guessing pyside is rather similar. A nice pyqt tutorial is here: http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pyqt4/ | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| mak89k | Shapeshifter: awesome thanks a lot!!! :) | 00:01 |
| Shapeshifter | and I'd say for Qt just stick to the C++ API docs, I'd say the Qt API is superb | 00:02 |
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| Shapeshifter | Mh. No curl in the repos :( | 00:07 |
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| port21 | Yo | 00:08 |
| port21 | Wondering if anyone can help me with a youtube problem on the n900 :) | 00:08 |
| SpeedEvil | port21: What problem? | 00:09 |
| port21 | Basically, ive seen on youtube how people have access youtube and its displayed how it would display on a desktop, but i cant get it to come out of mobile view | 00:09 |
| pupnik | btw, mytube works great on PC if you don't want to install flash | 00:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Also. Woo! Angrybirds all 21 level 1 and 2 ***. | 00:09 |
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| port21 | tfor some reason im stuck with the mobile view stylesheet | 00:09 |
| port21 | SpeedEvil, you got any ideas? | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | port21: what do you mean 'mobile view stylesheet' | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd try clearing any cookies? | 00:10 |
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| jaem | mmm... cookies | 00:11 |
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| sandman | poert21: could it have been with another browser? (i am a noob on n900) | 00:11 |
| port21 | ive tried clearing cookies, ive tried it with the n900 built in browser and firefox on there too | 00:12 |
| jaem | port21, I"m not aware of a mobile page for Youtube. Is there one, are are you just referring to CSS layout modifications? | 00:12 |
| jaem | e.g. removing sidebars, etc. | 00:12 |
| port21 | m.youtube.com i think if the url | 00:12 |
| jaem | ah | 00:12 |
| port21 | *is | 00:13 |
| jaem | and it redirects you to there? | 00:13 |
| port21 | yep | 00:13 |
| jaem | hmm | 00:13 |
| port21 | even if i click to change to destop | 00:13 |
| jaem | maybe that's new | 00:13 |
| port21 | hmm | 00:13 |
| jaem | I've found some sites that don't know what to do with the Maemo 5 browser, because it reports itself as a desktop-class browser on a mobile device | 00:13 |
| port21 | pretty lame if it is | 00:13 |
| jaem | some sites get confused | 00:13 |
| jaem | can you try with Tear? | 00:13 |
| port21 | Tear? | 00:13 |
| jaem | Tear lets you set the useragent string to anything you want, say, desktop Firefox | 00:14 |
| jaem | yeah, it's another browser which isn't stable for the N900 yet | 00:14 |
| jaem | but it works more or less, and it would allow you to check a few things | 00:14 |
| port21 | nice. i'll check it out | 00:14 |
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| jaem | port21, do you know how to change useragent strings? | 00:15 |
| port21 | cant say i do | 00:15 |
| port21 | lol | 00:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, you need to con some more sub-editors. :P | 00:15 |
| jophish | what conditions must be met in order for MyDocs to show up in any standard save dialog, or file manager. Or better yet, is there any way in which I can get /home/user to show up in them (apart from with a symbolic link on the external card. | 00:15 |
| port21 | it seems on the videos of people showing off their n900, theyre using the builtin browser to view youtube, and it appears in desktop mode, but mine keeps throwing me back to mobile view | 00:15 |
| sandman | port21: if you write "about:config" in firefox you could change the useragent | 00:15 |
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| simula | does anyone know of a tutorial for packaging a simple Qt project into a .deb? x86 to start with... working my way to arm | 00:16 |
| jaem | port21, it's in the Tear options. Essentially, a useragent string is what the browser sends with web requests to identify itself and/or the device | 00:16 |
| greenfly | there's also a package in either testing or devel that lets you change useragent easily | 00:16 |
| jaem | that's how sites know if you're using a dumbphone, an iPhone, or a real phone | 00:16 |
| jaem | ;) | 00:16 |
| jaem | or a desktop | 00:16 |
| jaem | etc. | 00:16 |
| jaem | greenfly, I vaguely thought I'd heard of that | 00:16 |
| port21 | yeah, i got ya, ive used it before. :) | 00:16 |
| jaem | that might be worth trying first, port21 | 00:16 |
| jaem | simula, Debian packaging specifically, or Maemo's guidelines? | 00:17 |
| jaem | also, which language is your app in? | 00:17 |
| simula | jaem, i was thinking generic debian to start with... c++ | 00:17 |
| port21 | jaem, what am i looking for in about:config? | 00:17 |
| jaem | simula, well, there are some tutorials, and I'll try to find one, but you'll want to read up one the actual Guidelines, too | 00:18 |
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| sandman | port21: write useragent | 00:18 |
| jaem | Debian has theirs, and Maemo has a slightly modified set of Guidelines on top of it, IIRC | 00:18 |
| port21 | jaem, no results for useragent | 00:18 |
| jaem | simula, as for ARM, if you're using Qt, and nothing weird, then it shouldn't be much work to cross-compile | 00:18 |
| jaem | port21, this is in microB, or whatever they call the stock browser these days? | 00:19 |
| jaem | simula, give me a sec | 00:19 |
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| simula | jaem... i'm working my way through the "Debian New Maintainers' Guide", but it's relatively slow going | 00:19 |
| jaem | yeah, Debian packaging is quite pedantic, unfortunately | 00:19 |
| jaem | be glad you're not doing RPMs | 00:19 |
| jaem | heh | 00:19 |
| simula | heh :) | 00:19 |
| jaem | me, I like my Arch packages... nice and simple, no frills, and quick to write and test | 00:20 |
| port21 | got 4 results from useragent, im assuming useragent.vendor is what im after? | 00:20 |
| jaem | port21, I'll check | 00:20 |
| port21 | thats the only one that mentions maemo and N900 | 00:20 |
| lcuk | jaem, can say the same about debian once you understand it | 00:20 |
| sandman | port21: strange.. when i write it shows "general.useragent.extra.firefox" and is set for "Firefox/3.6" on my Ubuntu machine | 00:21 |
| jaem | hmm, it looks like FF breaks the string down into pieces | 00:21 |
| port21 | it sasandman, jaem told me to use the stock browser | 00:21 |
| jaem | lcuk, oh, probably, but I still would argue that's it's more pedantic | 00:21 |
| sandman | port21: ahh ok | 00:21 |
| jaem | port21, well, you can try Tear or something else - I was just advising you try what you have first | 00:21 |
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| port21 | i googled around and couldnt find anyone else having the same problem | 00:22 |
| port21 | tis odd | 00:22 |
| jaem | can you paste (or pastebin, if it's long) what shows up for a query of "useragent" in about:config | 00:22 |
| jaem | I'll doublecheck with a couple of browsers now | 00:22 |
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| jaem | simula, http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-debpkg.html looks decent | 00:22 |
| jaem | I think that's what I used originally | 00:22 |
| jaem | I'm not sure how up to date it is, though | 00:22 |
| port21 | jaem, it says "Firefox/3.5 Maemo Browser 1.5.6 RX-51 N900" | 00:23 |
| jaem | port21, out of curiousity, are you logged into Google/Youtube when you're visiting this page? | 00:23 |
| simula | ok, thanks jaem, i appreciate the help | 00:23 |
| lcuk | simula, lots of people take an existing package thats similar and hack from there | 00:23 |
| port21 | jame, ive tried both, clearing cookies between tries | 00:23 |
| jaem | lcuk, good point | 00:23 |
| simula | i'm considering that lcuk :) | 00:23 |
| lcuk | its not hte best approach | 00:23 |
| lcuk | but along with your reading | 00:23 |
| lcuk | it might help | 00:23 |
| jaem | lcuk, isn't there also a command to autogenerate a skeleton set of buildscripts? | 00:24 |
| lcuk | yeah lol | 00:24 |
| lcuk | i cant remember tho | 00:24 |
| jaem | ...so, the Olympic torch went through my campus this morning... it made me late for my exam | 00:24 |
| lcuk | i have a clicky button inside visual basic to do that for me | 00:24 |
| simula | jaem, i think it's dh_make | 00:24 |
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| jaem | and all it was was a guy running with a burning stick :P The sponsors put on a better show | 00:24 |
| jaem | still neat, though | 00:24 |
| jaem | simula, sounds about right | 00:24 |
| * lcuk ponders ogl liqbase | 00:25 | |
| jaem | port21, hmm... worksforme in the stock browser | 00:26 |
| port21 | thats so weird | 00:28 |
| port21 | so you get the full desktop experience? | 00:28 |
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| port21 | scroll to the bottom to mobile and click that, and you'll see howi see it. | 00:28 |
| jaem | port21, up | 00:28 |
| jaem | sure, give me a sec | 00:28 |
| port21 | i click on a video, and it opens up my media player to play it fullscreen, thats nice, but i want in browser viewing | 00:28 |
| port21 | =P | 00:28 |
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| port21 | jaem, are you using firefox or the maemo browser that came with the phone? | 00:29 |
| jaem | the stock browser | 00:29 |
| jaem | I'll try it with Tear momentarily | 00:29 |
| jaem | I don't have Firefox installld | 00:29 |
| port21 | ive tried with the stock browser and firefox | 00:29 |
| port21 | both same result | 00:29 |
| port21 | i doubt tear would be any different? | 00:29 |
| jaem | probably not, but I'm curious | 00:30 |
| jaem | hmm | 00:30 |
| jaem | that really is odd | 00:30 |
| jaem | when did this start? | 00:30 |
| port21 | since i got the phone 2 days ago | 00:30 |
| jaem | -shrug- | 00:31 |
| sandman | maybe if he delete everything but "Firefox/3.5"? | 00:31 |
| sandman | inabout:config | 00:31 |
| jaem | that might be worth trying, actually | 00:31 |
| SpeedEvil | port21: odd. Does it do it over wifi and cell? | 00:31 |
| jaem | SpeedEvil, I was just going to ask that | 00:31 |
| port21 | yeah. same result | 00:31 |
| jaem | given the site, I wouldn't be surprised if some carriers might think of messing with your requests | 00:31 |
| SpeedEvil | port21: is this a generic n900 - or is it bought theough an opeatror? | 00:31 |
| jaem | to save bandwidth | 00:31 |
| jaem | it would be evil, but it wouldn't surprise me | 00:32 |
| port21 | bought through vodafone. | 00:32 |
| SpeedEvil | aha! | 00:32 |
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| port21 | gah, i was afraid of that, lol | 00:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I would next try flashing it to the stock firmware | 00:32 |
| * jaem nods | 00:32 | |
| SpeedEvil | Does it have any explicit branding / vodafone apps? | 00:32 |
| jaem | and if it suddenly magically works, then go raise heck about it | 00:32 |
| jaem | that sort of thing isn't cool, if that's what they're doing | 00:33 |
| Shapeshifter | if I delete ICQ (or other IM protocol) contacts from the n900 contacts list, will they get deleted from the ICQ,... servers? | 00:33 |
| port21 | rather frustrating cos i sign out of my youtube account and it says "this page does not have a mobile version, view desktop version?", then i tap it and it takes me back to the home page in mobile version. | 00:33 |
| jaem | seriously, though, if they're messing with your web requests, make noise about it | 00:33 |
| port21 | no, its just a normal n900 just on contract | 00:33 |
| SpeedEvil | what does settings->about list as the softwareve reiosn? | 00:34 |
| SpeedEvil | version | 00:34 |
| port21 | in the phones settings or browser settings? | 00:35 |
| sandman | could it be a filter vodafone are using for mobile devices? | 00:35 |
| SpeedEvil | phones | 00:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | sandman: he/she said it did it on mobile and fixed line | 00:35 |
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| port21 | 2.2009.51-1.205.1 | 00:36 |
| port21 | maemo 5 | 00:36 |
| qole | jaem, I'm considering going to see the torch come thru my campus tonight... Not worth it? | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Interesting | 00:36 |
| jaem | qole, unless there's more fanfare than there was up on the hill, I wouldn't say it's worth going anywhere | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | my version is 51-1.203.2 | 00:36 |
| jaem | if you live nearby, then it might be worth it just to say you saw it | 00:36 |
| jaem | but as I said, it really comes down to a guy running past with a burning stick | 00:37 |
| port21 | any way to force an update? thats how i updated my old t mobile G1 | 00:37 |
| port21 | hell, i'll run pas your campus with a burning stick :D sounds like fun. | 00:37 |
| SpeedEvil | 205.1 would seem to be more recent | 00:37 |
| jaem | when does it go through at YouBeeSee? | 00:37 |
| jaem | er... UBC | 00:37 |
| port21 | oh, would also like to mention by the way that im in the UK. =P | 00:38 |
| port21 | not sure how that might effect it, but its a possibility | 00:38 |
| jaem | port21, it'd be a long run | 00:38 |
| jaem | and yes, I know you're in the UK, thanks to the Wonders of Technology | 00:38 |
| port21 | lol, that wasnt in reference to the torch, more my problem | 00:38 |
| port21 | lol | 00:39 |
| jaem | well, it would affect both matters | 00:39 |
| jaem | :) | 00:39 |
| port21 | yeah dude, wasnt sure if you'd seen. | 00:39 |
| port21 | haha | 00:39 |
| port21 | pay me the same amount as the olypic dude and i'll run across water to ya | 00:39 |
| port21 | lol | 00:39 |
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| jaem | hmm, well, there was another carrier in the UK that was doing evil things to save bandwidth, so I don't suppose it's out of the question | 00:39 |
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| port21 | yeah | 00:39 |
| jaem | I forget who, but they got some bad press a year or so ago when they proxied all images through a server running high-level GIF compression | 00:40 |
| jaem | it was painful, from the pictures I saw | 00:40 |
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| jaem | and that was the basis of their ad campaign saying that they had the fastest Internet service on their phones | 00:40 |
| jaem | yikes | 00:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there any way to get a textual output of all package versions? | 00:41 |
| SpeedEvil | apt-cache somehow? | 00:41 |
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| jaem | SpeedEvil, you'd want dpkg-query, and yes probably | 00:41 |
| jaem | oh wait | 00:41 |
| jaem | all installed, or in the repos? | 00:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I meant on the phone | 00:41 |
| jaem | installed, then? | 00:42 |
| SpeedEvil | so we could compare port21's versions with the normal | 00:42 |
| jaem | you'd have to use dpkg-query | 00:42 |
| port21 | jaem, yeah, i think that was T mobile. | 00:42 |
| jaem | and I always forget the switches, because they were non-obvious | 00:42 |
| jaem | port21, I think I heard of something different, but it also sounds like something T-Mo would pull | 00:42 |
| jaem | ...when they're not suing bloggers over colour schemes | 00:42 |
| jaem | haha | 00:42 |
| port21 | actally, it could be vodafone, theyve been going crazy with advertising lately about their internet speeds ;/ | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | port21: dpkg-query -l >out | 00:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | then pastebin or copy out somewhere public might be interesting | 00:43 |
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| port21 | 2 secs, restarting phone. | 00:43 |
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| jophish | what conditions must be met in order for MyDocs to show up in any standard save dialog, or file manager. Or better yet, is there any way in which I can get /home/user to show up in them (apart from with a symbolic link on the external card. | 00:43 |
| jaem | SpeedEvil, do the carriers have their own repos for custom things, then, or does Nokia host them? | 00:43 |
| jaem | or do they just not update things... | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | jaem: I have no idea. | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | jaem: The version on port21s phone is later than on mine | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | or apparantly | 00:44 |
| jaem | hmm... I'm wondering because it might affect the versioning | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - true | 00:44 |
| jaem | SpeedEvil, I think that's a version suffix, similar to n.n.n-xmaemoy | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | sounds not implausible | 00:44 |
| port21 | SpeedEvil, it might, in that case, be carrier specific firmware | 00:44 |
| jaem | the last part probably isn't set by Nokia, at least not in the same sense | 00:44 |
| jaem | port21, that's my guess | 00:45 |
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| jaem | the suffix doesn't fit with Nokia's usual versioning scheme, as far as I've seen | 00:45 |
| jaem | I'm going to grab some lunch, but I'll be around - poke me if you figure out anything, please | 00:46 |
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| jon1012 | ui-wise, on maemo, what is the best way to represent tabs ? | 00:46 |
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| jaem | jon1012, hmm... it's not a common UI element | 00:46 |
| jaem | did you check the HIG? | 00:46 |
| jon1012 | yeah | 00:47 |
| jon1012 | and I don't find anything like that | 00:47 |
| jaem | did it disallow them, or just not mention them? | 00:47 |
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| wazd | who wants to test an iTheme for maemo 5? :P | 00:47 |
| jon1012 | just not mention and somehow tell its discouraged | 00:47 |
| jon1012 | wazd: itheme ? | 00:47 |
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| jaem | wazd, I would, but I'd have to burn my phone afterward :P | 00:47 |
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| jaem | screenshots? | 00:47 |
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| jon1012 | my problem : user can do a search for places (bars/restaurants) in an area... and I want to let the user switch betwen map and listing views | 00:48 |
| wazd | jaem: don't forget to take a shower :D | 00:48 |
| jaem | jon1012, would the normal "stacked window" approach be unsuitable? | 00:48 |
| jaem | as in the mail client | 00:48 |
| jon1012 | jaem: yeah :( | 00:48 |
| jon1012 | jaem: as there is search, then place view | 00:48 |
| wazd | jaem: I actually can't take a screenshots, as you remember, so I ask to test somebody in the crowd :D | 00:48 |
| jon1012 | but search can be either map or listing | 00:48 |
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| wazd | jon1012: iPhone theme for maemo5 :) | 00:48 |
| jaem | wazd, fire me a linnk, and I'll see what I can do | 00:48 |
| jon1012 | wazd: lol why not | 00:49 |
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| jon1012 | wazd: could be fun to test | 00:49 |
| jaem | jon1012, is this in Qt or GTK? | 00:49 |
| jon1012 | gtk | 00:49 |
| port21 | Hmm. this is odd. im gonna go do a bit of googling. i'll be back soon :) | 00:49 |
| port21 | thanks for your help so far guys | 00:49 |
| port21 | :) | 00:49 |
| jaem | hmm... okay, I'm not familiar with GTK, so I can't suggest specific widgets | 00:49 |
| jaem | port21, no problem - good luck | 00:50 |
| jon1012 | let me show screenshots of what I mean | 00:50 |
| wazd | jaem: I hope the link will be ready in like 30 minutes | 00:50 |
| jaem | jon1012, sure, that would be good | 00:50 |
| port21 | chers mate | 00:50 |
| jon1012 | wazd: when you have I would test too | 00:50 |
| port21 | *cheers | 00:50 |
| jaem | wazd, okay - I may be gone at that point, and my scrollback isn't set up properly, so PM me with it just in case, please | 00:50 |
| wazd | jon1012: good | 00:50 |
| wazd | jaem: sure | 00:50 |
| jon1012 | this is the listing search result : http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5279/screenshot04n.png | 00:51 |
| jon1012 | this is the map search result : http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/8255/screenshot10v.png | 00:51 |
| jon1012 | both views can lead once a place has been selected to this stackable view : http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5515/screenshot05q.png | 00:51 |
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| jon1012 | (I tried to keep the ui look as native as possible) | 00:52 |
| jaem | right... I see your issue | 00:53 |
| jaem | are you designing this for Maemo, or porting? | 00:53 |
| jon1012 | designing for maemo | 00:53 |
| jon1012 | (the main website is done in python and I have a connector class for distant mvc thourgh json already in python too) | 00:53 |
| jon1012 | (so making this in pygtk isn't that hard :)) | 00:53 |
| jaem | okay | 00:53 |
| jaem | well... | 00:53 |
| jaem | Tabs are ugly and not phone-ish, to be sure. | 00:54 |
| jon1012 | yeah | 00:54 |
| jaem | Failing any HIG mentions, you could always try something tabbish | 00:54 |
| jaem | such as having a bar on the left side of the map that slides the other page across when clicked | 00:55 |
| jaem | and vice-versa | 00:55 |
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| jaem | I've seen UI's like that, and I think it would fit better | 00:55 |
| jaem | but for Maemo, I'm not sure | 00:55 |
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| jaem | I mean, it would probably be usable, and look better than normal tabs, but it isn't really something that I've seen on Maemo yet | 00:55 |
| jaem | wazd, any opinions? | 00:55 |
| jacekowski | i'm just wondering | 00:56 |
| jaem | jon1012, do you know what I mean? | 00:56 |
| jacekowski | if tomtom is running linux on ARM | 00:56 |
| jon1012 | jaem: not really | 00:56 |
| jacekowski | how complicated it would be to run it on n900 | 00:56 |
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| jaem | jon1012, you know those old mini tabbed binders that quick reference guides for computers and such came in? | 00:57 |
| jaem | actually, never mind with that | 00:57 |
| jaem | one sec | 00:57 |
| wazd | oh | 00:57 |
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| jaem | I'm not sure where I've seen it, but they sometimes will put a vertical bar on the side of a content pane that represents another "page", or some such | 00:58 |
| jaem | and you click it, and that page comes to the top, slides across, flips, or whatever | 00:58 |
| jon1012 | btw, I'll probably release a big chunk of that app (minus the specific connector for my website network) as open source | 00:58 |
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| jaem | and the other view minimizes to a bar on the opposite side | 00:59 |
| jaem | jon1012, yay, thanks! | 00:59 |
| wazd | shots look clean :) | 00:59 |
| jaem | yeah, you've done a good job, from what I can see | 00:59 |
| jaem | wazd, do you understand what I'm trying to express? | 00:59 |
| jaem | or am I just crazy? | 00:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | frals, ping? | 01:00 |
| wazd | jaem: It's 2 AM here, don't expect much :D | 01:00 |
| frals | GeneralAntilles: pong | 01:00 |
| jaem | wazd, ha, sure | 01:00 |
| jon1012 | (btw, is python with qt enoguh stable to use today on n900 apps ?) | 01:01 |
| jon1012 | (or is it better to stick with gtk ?) | 01:01 |
| jaem | jon1012, I'm not sure. Qt 4.6 technically isn't stable yet, but it should be soon that I wouldn't rule it out | 01:01 |
| jaem | as for the Python bindings, I have no idea | 01:02 |
| jaem | soon enough* | 01:02 |
| jon1012 | ok | 01:02 |
| jaem | word is that it will be "supported" in the next PR version | 01:02 |
| jaem | but I don't know for sure | 01:02 |
| jon1012 | hehe ok | 01:02 |
| SpeedEvil | http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/0,1000001991,40022669,00.htm - interesting. (chip and pin broken) | 01:02 |
| jon1012 | I'll stick to gtk for now, I know gtk a lot, so I guess it's better until maemo 6 :) | 01:02 |
| jefferai | this might be of interest to people here: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=2086ed382621c57f&hl=en | 01:02 |
| luke-jr | gtk = fail | 01:02 |
| jon1012 | gtk = good :) but won't be the default in the future, that's why I start to look at qt :( | 01:03 |
| jaem | jon1012, well, no, Qt is in late beta now | 01:03 |
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| jaem | the N900 will be an officially supported platform quite soon (they said Q1 sometime originally), and is already quite usable | 01:03 |
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| jaem | we've been using it for a research project at my university since October | 01:04 |
| simula | i'm so excited about qt-creator / madde integration and 4.6 on the phone :) | 01:04 |
| jon1012 | so, anybody has an idea of gtk widget for my selector problem ? :) | 01:05 |
| jefferai | simula: apparently there's still some cmake problem, narf | 01:05 |
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| simula | hehe :) hopefully it gets fixed soon jefferai | 01:06 |
| jon1012 | (well, selector/tab/ etc) | 01:06 |
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| nomis | jon1012: I missed the original question, what is the problem? | 01:06 |
| jon1012 | I have a search result view, that can be of two types, either result list or map | 01:07 |
| jon1012 | and when you select a place on one of those views, it opens a stackablewindow with the place you selected | 01:07 |
| jon1012 | thing is, is there an equivalent for tab to switch between the view types | 01:07 |
| jon1012 | (23:51:39) jon1012: this is the listing search result : http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5279/screenshot04n.png | 01:08 |
| jon1012 | (23:51:39) jon1012: this is the map search result : http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/8255/screenshot10v.png | 01:08 |
| jon1012 | (23:51:39) jon1012: both views can lead once a place has been selected to this stackable view : http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5515/screenshot05q.png | 01:08 |
| simula | jeffarai... does it sound like cmake bugs are the only thing holding back qt-creator madde integration? if so, that's great! | 01:08 |
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| jefferai | well, no | 01:09 |
| simula | heh | 01:09 |
| jefferai | qmake certainly works with qt-creator/madde | 01:09 |
| jefferai | but if you're like me, and working on porting bits of KDE programs over | 01:09 |
| jefferai | you want cmake | 01:09 |
| jefferai | :-) | 01:09 |
| nomis | jon1012: you actually could use a notebook and place the tabs on the side. | 01:09 |
| jon1012 | nomis: yeah, but it's not recommended by HIG | 01:10 |
| Shapeshifter | mhh, no lftp in the repos. | 01:10 |
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| nomis | jon1012: Ok, I am not an expert on the HIG :) | 01:10 |
| jaem | jefferai, what are you porting now? | 01:11 |
| jaem | I thought I recognized your nick :) | 01:11 |
| jefferai | jaem: I'm going to hold off on saying anything yet | 01:11 |
| Shapeshifter | mhh, I don't see anything providing "ftp" either. What package contains a simple small cli (scriptable) ftp client? | 01:11 |
| jefferai | until I figure out how much of it is at all possible | 01:11 |
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| jaem | jefferai, ah, fair enough | 01:11 |
| jaem | was it you that did the initial KOffice, etc. on the N810, or something else? | 01:12 |
| jaem | I can't remember | 01:12 |
| jefferai | Nope | 01:12 |
| jefferai | I didn't have a n810 | 01:12 |
| simula | if i have a dependency in a .deb package for qt 4.6 or greater and 4.6 doesn't exist in any repo, how do i handle that? should i put those libs into my deb? | 01:12 |
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| luke-jr | simula: you're aware you can't just use a .deb from one OS and install it in a different OS? | 01:13 |
| simula | luke-jr... what OS specific things besides arch do i have to worry about luke-jr? | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | simula: ABIs, library versions, etc | 01:16 |
| luke-jr | for embedded architectures like ARM, also stuff like optimizations | 01:16 |
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| jaem | yay! X Bailed for no apparent reason | 01:17 |
| jaem | woohoo | 01:17 |
| simula | so luke-jr, i was expecting to handle the library version with Depends: qt (>= 4.6), but i hadn't thought of the ABI being different because of what compiler it was compiled with | 01:18 |
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| luke-jr | ugh | 01:20 |
| luke-jr | #GNU is terrible | 01:20 |
| tripzero | you are terrible | 01:20 |
| tripzero | ;) | 01:20 |
| jaem | luke-jr, is that anything GNU? | 01:20 |
| jaem | *rimshot* | 01:21 |
| luke-jr | jaem: haha | 01:21 |
| simula | hehe | 01:21 |
| luke-jr | seriously though, the oper there has a huge bug in his logic program | 01:21 |
| Shapeshifter | does someone know how to silence ncftpput? | 01:21 |
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| Shapeshifter | there's no quiet switch or anything | 01:21 |
| tripzero | well, if i go in there trying to explain to them why the bsd license is more free, i'd come to the conclusion that its terrible too | 01:21 |
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| luke-jr | tripzero: nah | 01:22 |
| tripzero | :P | 01:22 |
| luke-jr | tripzero: I was just pointing out that FSF approved a non-free license. | 01:22 |
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| jaem | luke-jr, that's impossible | 01:23 |
| simula | what license? | 01:23 |
| gouverneur | no news I had to day.. just recognized that EU Swift negotiations are canceld! | 01:23 |
| luke-jr | "SIL Open Font License 1.1" | 01:23 |
| jaem | if Stallman's cool with it, then it is Free. Or are you saying you're more rabid than rms? ;) | 01:23 |
| jaem | hmm | 01:24 |
| luke-jr | jaem: Stallman has no authority | 01:24 |
| gouverneur | no US MI will be granted access directly | 01:24 |
| jaem | luke-jr, it was a jest | 01:24 |
| luke-jr | he's just a figurehead | 01:24 |
| luke-jr | SIL forbids selling | 01:24 |
| tripzero | i thought he was a harry monkey | 01:24 |
| jaem | luke-jr, I know, I wasn't actually wanting to get into it | 01:24 |
| jaem | tripzero, naw | 01:24 |
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| jaem | tripzero, actually never mind... his Google Images ranking for "unix beard" has climbed back up | 01:25 |
| jaem | ...it's based esr now | 01:25 |
| jaem | XD | 01:25 |
| jaem | s/based/past/ | 01:25 |
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| tripzero | lol | 01:25 |
| red | lo | 01:25 |
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| red | so whats hot at maemo? :) | 01:25 |
| red | beeen busy for a while so gotta catch up | 01:25 |
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| jon1012 | jaem: I'll try to use visually grouped toggle buttons in the search bar at bottom... | 01:26 |
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| jon1012 | One saying "List" and the other saying "Map" | 01:26 |
| jaem | jon1012, that might work | 01:26 |
| jon1012 | I'll try to see how it is visually... | 01:26 |
| jaem | if you do a mock-up or screenie, I wouldn't mind seeing it | 01:26 |
| jon1012 | I'll add it right now and do a screenie | 01:26 |
| jaem | red, didn't you hear? The new N100000 has come out | 01:27 |
| jaem | everything else is obselete | 01:27 |
| jaem | -snerk- | 01:27 |
| luke-jr | I got the N100000 with 4 GB RAM :) | 01:27 |
| jaem | ...and yes, that was an arbitrary amount of key-mashed trailing 0's | 01:27 |
| jaem | hmm... Google ads for the query "unix beard" | 01:28 |
| jaem | do I click on the HP-UX one, or the Braun Shaver one | 01:28 |
| jaem | decisions, decisions | 01:28 |
| jaem | "Which path will YOU choose" | 01:28 |
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| tripzero | m | 01:32 |
| jaem | ? | 01:32 |
| Shapeshifter | the desktop command execution widget is one of the best things that happened to my desktop. | 01:33 |
| tripzero | heh, wrong window. m == an alias for make -j5 :P | 01:33 |
| jaem | hehe | 01:33 |
| jaem | sudo passwd | 01:33 |
| jaem | sahdfldsjlfks | 01:33 |
| jaem | ;) | 01:33 |
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| wazd | jaem: package is baking now | 01:34 |
| wazd | jaem: it's now a weird combination of Marina and an iPhone, but some elements should look fine :) | 01:35 |
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| * jaem smells the oven | 01:35 | |
| jaem | mmmm | 01:35 |
| jaem | biiiiiits | 01:35 |
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| wazd | anyway, converting process is much faster than creating :) | 01:36 |
| jon1012 | bwahh | 01:36 |
| jon1012 | visually grouped toggle buttons aren't implemented in defaulttheme | 01:36 |
| jon1012 | (both buttons have all rounder corners) | 01:37 |
| jon1012 | (giving no clue they are a one-or-other chooser) | 01:37 |
| jon1012 | :( | 01:37 |
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| jon1012 | this is what the widget ui spec says: "Implemented with the GtkToggleButton class using hildon_gtk_toggle_button_new(). Visually grouped toggle buttons are packed inside a GtkHBox with homogeneous set to TRUE and spacing set to 0." | 01:37 |
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| ShadowJK | I used Ovi Maps for turn by turn navigation today | 01:52 |
| ShadowJK | unfortunately it was on my symbian phone :-( | 01:52 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: and survived? :D | 01:52 |
| * ShadowJK had to drive extra to go get it | 01:52 | |
| ShadowJK | wazd, barely | 01:53 |
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| ShadowJK | It's pretty the opposite of tomtom | 01:53 |
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| ShadowJK | tomtom is highly allergic to small roads.. the kinds that were covered by 60cm snow today | 01:53 |
| *** simula_ is now known as simula | 01:53 | |
| ShadowJK | and ovi seems to love those | 01:53 |
| * ShadowJK just drove until it suggested a big road | 01:53 | |
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| jacekowski | that depends on settings | 01:55 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: maybe you've used "ped. mode"? | 01:55 |
| Shapeshifter | does someone know which package contains less? | 01:55 |
| N900evil | less | 01:55 |
| Shapeshifter | the app, "less". | 01:55 |
| jaem | ShadowJK, if it's allergic to small roads, see if the symptoms improve while driving off of downed bridges, or unbuilt freeways | 01:55 |
| Shapeshifter | oh | 01:55 |
| jaem | I hear that works | 01:55 |
| N900evil | apt get install less | 01:56 |
| jaem | N900evil, that's called remove | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | less is in sdk tools repo | 01:56 |
| jaem | hehe | 01:56 |
| jaem | apt-get install more! | 01:56 |
| Shapeshifter | N900evil: thanks. apt-cache search's behavior of listing everything even remotely related to what you search for is still confusing me | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | wazd, jacekowski: it wasn't in pedestrian mode.. it even had "fastest", not "shortest" selected.. | 01:56 |
| N900evil | oh - it's in the tools repo | 01:56 |
| N900evil | np | 01:56 |
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| b-man17 | vjoin #xceleo | 02:01 |
| b-man17 | woops | 02:01 |
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| jon1012 | jaem: http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/304/screenshot12r.png | 02:02 |
| jon1012 | this is what it does | 02:02 |
| jon1012 | not that good :( | 02:02 |
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| offender_ | feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces feces | 02:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | What lame spam. | 02:07 |
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| redeeman | but far less annoying than 10 bots pasting till they timeout | 02:07 |
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| wazd | jaem: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/hildon-theme-itheme/0.1/ | 02:09 |
| wazd | and everyone | 02:09 |
| jaem | thanks, wazd | 02:10 |
| jaem | I'll take a look, but I have to run to a meeting, so I'll catch you later | 02:10 |
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| wazd | jaem: sure, thanks | 02:10 |
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| jon1012 | wooho I've found a good way ! using hildon.CheckButton... very poorly documented but does the job :) | 02:20 |
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| wazd | jon1012: ^ :) | 02:21 |
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| jon1012 | someone knows if there is a glade plugin for hildon widgets ? | 02:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol . . . apologist salary | 02:31 |
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| * SpeedEvil finds bonnie in repo | 02:35 | |
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| * SpeedEvil ponders responses to bugs about not supporting multiple screen-sizes. | 02:53 | |
| * SpeedEvil is exporting stuff to his laptop. | 02:53 | |
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| ShadowJK | I just noticed | 03:06 |
| ShadowJK | my N900 has newer kernel than my workstation | 03:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | Interesting. | 03:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Running bonnie and mplayer to send the video camera image to my laptop over wifi seems to make something rather upset. | 03:07 |
| SpeedEvil | [48805.234405] omap-iommu omap-iommu.1: iommu_fault_handler: da:0000c000 pgd:cfe8c000 *pgd:8fea8001 pte:cfea8030 *pte:00000000 | 03:08 |
| SpeedEvil | [48805.266967] omap-iommu omap-iommu.1: omap2_iommu_fault_isr: da:0000c000 translation fault | 03:08 |
| SpeedEvil | spamming logs | 03:08 |
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| Mousey | holy kernel unhappinesses, batman | 03:10 |
| * Mousey suspects contention | 03:10 | |
| SpeedEvil | perhaps. | 03:10 |
| Mousey | US$0.02++ | 03:10 |
| SpeedEvil | It is a slightly unusual workload for a mobile phone. | 03:10 |
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| Mousey | i consider it a computer.. shaped like a phone | 03:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | It may have been running nokia maps and displaying it on my laptop which did it though. | 03:11 |
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| * SpeedEvil wonders why text rendering on fbreader is a couple of orders of magnitude slower when rotated | 03:21 | |
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| SpeedEvil | \ | 03:25 |
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| Aethaeryn | How is Maemo pronounced? "May-mo"? | 03:38 |
| WZhang | ma-emo thats how i do it | 03:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Aethaeryn, my-eh-mo more or less. | 03:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | may-mo is mostly "wrong" (assuming pronouncing a made up word can really be considered correct or incorrect) | 03:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Aethaeryn, http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo.html | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Spanish - Maria gets you a pretty close approximation | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Finnish - Sanna is good, too. | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Take the linux approach | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | (maybe better) | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | how did the originator pronounce it. | 03:45 |
| Aethaeryn | GeneralAntilles: I guess it's the English-speaking mentality... We tend to try to make one sound out of multiple vowels | 03:45 |
| Aethaeryn | this words like "aisle" | 03:45 |
| Aethaeryn | Not "a-isle" | 03:45 |
| Aethaeryn | GeneralAntilles: Though I don't think anyone knows how to pronounce Maemo... was reading Engadget comments and everyone had a different pronunciation | 03:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Aethaeryn, it was generated by pwgen. | 03:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | So there, arguably, isn't a "correct" pronunciation. | 03:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | However the guy who generated it is Spanish and Nokia is Finnish | 03:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | and Spanish and Finnish generally agree on the pronunciation | 03:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, my-eh-mo | 03:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | (very weak middle sylable) | 03:47 |
| jf- | pronounced ma-e-mo | 03:48 |
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| Aethaeryn | GeneralAntilles: I guess I wasn't too far off, then. | 03:54 |
| Aethaeryn | My-eh-mo is May-mo if you put the two vowels together like I assumed | 03:55 |
| Aethaeryn | Kinda | 03:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not. :P | 03:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | may != my | 03:56 |
| Aethaeryn | Say My-eh fast enough... and you get something kinda like May | 03:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, but may-mo isn't really right. :P | 03:56 |
| Kamui | may-EE-moe | 03:58 |
| ShadowJK | my idea: "ma" as in your mom, e as in "eh?", "mo" again as in your mom | 03:58 |
| Kamui | reah!!!! | 03:58 |
| ShadowJK | with a nick like 'kamui' I'd think pronuncing arbitrary sequences of syllables would be easy ;-) | 04:00 |
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| Kamui | well that would depend on the language from wihich the name is based wouldnt it ShadowJK | 04:01 |
| ShadowJK | yeah :) | 04:01 |
| Kamui | ka-mueee | 04:02 |
| ShadowJK | If we assume finns made the name... the finnish language is spelled phonetically with latin alphabet | 04:02 |
| Kamui | but i hear a lot of ka-moo-eee | 04:02 |
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| Aethaeryn | Kamui: That's dangerously close to pronouncing it as "My-emo" | 04:03 |
| Kamui | lol my emo | 04:04 |
| Kamui | nice | 04:04 |
| Kamui | mae mo | 04:04 |
| Kamui | is what i say | 04:04 |
| Kamui | and i stand by it | 04:04 |
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| Kamui | off topic. i need a better pdf reader or a comic reader that does pdf format | 04:06 |
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| Kamui | pdf reader wont quite do fullscreen zoom | 04:06 |
| matthew- | isnt it mimo ? | 04:06 |
| Kamui | and while xournal works too its slow and annotates | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | matthew-, er, no? | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | my-eh-mo is approximately the real pronunciation. | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo.html | 04:07 |
| matthew- | well it would make sense ;-) | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Finnish - Sanna | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Type "Maemo" into the box. | 04:07 |
| Kamui | meamo would make sense | 04:07 |
| matthew- | i know finnish | 04:07 |
| Kamui | i dont know finnish | 04:07 |
| Kamui | but it dont work in engrish | 04:08 |
| gouverneur | damn this charging bug drives me mad | 04:09 |
| Kamui | ae in english would be a hard A sound | 04:09 |
| Kamui | now that its settled | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Kamui: it's annoying, yes | 04:09 |
| crashanddie | My EMO | 04:10 |
| Kamui | pdf reader with full screen zoom? | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Kamui: submit a bug | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Kamui: that - and you can't do 180.1% zoom | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | (for example | 04:10 |
| crashanddie | n900 is optimized for MySpace, and it runs My-Emo software, wooooohooooooooo | 04:10 |
| WZhang | lol | 04:12 |
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| Kamui | zing! | 04:15 |
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| Kamui | pr1.1 really fixed the touchscreen keyboard. i can thumb it really much faster than i could with 1.0 | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I haven't noticed any differemce, but I don't use it that much. What are the changes? | 04:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, they disabled gestures | 04:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | In favor of iPhone-like functionality. | 04:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | My speed dropped by about 30% | 04:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I hate it. | 04:18 |
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| Kamui | lol i dont use gestures | 04:20 |
| Kamui | i just mean its more accurate | 04:20 |
| Kamui | before speed tapping would spell out random shit | 04:21 |
| Kamui | but now its much much better | 04:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because you didn't lift your other thumb fast enough. | 04:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | It aint multitouch. | 04:21 |
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| Kamui | not the case at all | 04:21 |
| konfoo | anyone know if the jquery touch devs are at least looking at the n900 for a device profile? | 04:21 |
| Kamui | but maybe a video demo is in order | 04:21 |
| Kamui | :) | 04:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Kamui, if you're getting gibberish it is. | 04:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | PR1.1 uses the final position of the tap to select the character, not the initial one. | 04:22 |
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| Kamui | GeneralAntilles: it wasnt gibberish as much as i was hitting the wrong letters | 04:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | PR1.0 you could tap a character and swipe left/right/up/down to delete and shift | 04:22 |
| Kamui | even though i wasnt | 04:22 |
| Kamui | recalibrating didnt help | 04:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, because your first thumb was still on the screen. | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meaning you'd end up with at pouch point between the two actual touch points. | 04:23 |
| Kamui | if i was getting middle keys i would buy that | 04:23 |
| Kamui | hitting any key almost always resulted in the key to the right and down | 04:23 |
| Kamui | maybe i just adjusted the way i use it | 04:24 |
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| Kamui | doesnt really matter now, it works better for me, a lot better | 04:24 |
| Kamui | key deadzones might have been adjusted, who knows | 04:24 |
| Kamui | touchscreen driver could have been improved | 04:25 |
| Kamui | maybe i was typing too fast | 04:25 |
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| ShadowJK | that voice synth is good | 04:29 |
| ShadowJK | btw, they also fixed tx calibration in pr1.1 I think | 04:29 |
| ShadowJK | it was definitely broken before | 04:29 |
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| Kamui | see | 04:52 |
| Kamui | i was right | 04:52 |
| Kamui | i rock | 04:53 |
| Kamui | espeak v synth? | 04:53 |
| Kamui | cause its awesome | 04:53 |
| Kamui | even if its brittish | 04:53 |
| Kamui | brrrritttttish | 04:53 |
| Kamui | i want to write a python script for xchat to use that | 04:53 |
| Kamui | havent gotten around to trying to get the python module on the n900 | 04:54 |
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| Kamui | has to be compiled iirc | 04:54 |
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| crashanddie | Kamui: please don't use return as a punctuation sign | 04:55 |
| N900evil | why | 04:55 |
| Kamui | ouch | 04:55 |
| crashanddie | N900evil: because we are intelligent beings and we should be able with a sentence longer than 3 words? | 04:56 |
| ShadowJK | Nah I meant the one that GeneralAntilles pasted... the finnish synth is awesome | 04:56 |
| crashanddie | s/ble /ble to cope / | 04:56 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: N900evil: because we are intelligent beings and we should be able to cope with a sentence longer than 3 words? | 04:56 |
| Kamui | ill write long paragraphs from now on sorry. just guess i got carried away talking tomyself and as usual someone got mad. man i screwed up. but you have to admit, espeak is cool, i love it, works quite well on the n900 but not on my desktop. i wonder why... | 04:57 |
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| crashanddie | drama queen much? | 04:57 |
| zerojay | Question... if I placed a grid over the N900 screen and wanted to be able to accurately choose any by the touch of a finger.. what would you say should be the maximum size of each square in the grid? | 04:57 |
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| Kamui | moderately bored, i shant flood anymore | 04:58 |
| crashanddie | ~Kamui++ | 04:58 |
| crashanddie | for using "shan't" | 04:58 |
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| Kamui | :D | 04:58 |
| zerojay | crashanddie: Nice response to silvermountain, btw. lol | 04:59 |
| crashanddie | zerojay: 6 in width, 4 in height | 04:59 |
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| zerojay | crashanddie: 6x4 pixels each square? | 05:00 |
| crashanddie | no | 05:00 |
| crashanddie | 6 squares by 4 squares total | 05:00 |
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| zerojay | Yeah, that's definitely not going to work when I need at least 20x20. | 05:00 |
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| crashanddie | zerojay: depends what you're trying to do | 05:00 |
| zerojay | Creating a game based on a grid. | 05:00 |
| crashanddie | zerojay: just try it | 05:01 |
| zerojay | Yeah, I think I will. | 05:01 |
| crashanddie | zerojay: show an image on screen, draw the grid dynamically, and highlight the squares you tap | 05:01 |
| crashanddie | and just look up to which point you can select a specific point in the image accurately | 05:02 |
| zerojay | Yeah, I think I'm going to have to do a series of tests at different sizes to see how it works. | 05:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, silvermountain is such a prick. | 05:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, good show. :P | 05:06 |
| SpeedEvil | A skilled or an idiotic gloved finger | 05:07 |
| * N900evil goes to watch southpark episode on finger glove. | 05:08 | |
| N900evil | s/g// | 05:08 |
| acidjazz | finger glove? | 05:09 |
| ShadowJK | is "shan't" timeless-certified use of english?.. | 05:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: try to hit the crosshairs and see which radius the dots are | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | then calculate (aka draw) the outer square | 05:17 |
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| crashanddie | ShadowJK: timeless isn't a good writer | 05:20 |
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| crashanddie | ShadowJK: he speaks american, hence his English is already flawed to begin with | 05:20 |
| crashanddie | ShadowJK: he asked me to tag my blog as being "en-GB" | 05:20 |
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| lucent | multiplayer "Hearts" card game for N900? | 05:21 |
| crashanddie | lol... silvermountain is sending hatemail in PM | 05:22 |
| lucent | oi. people do odd things | 05:23 |
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| lucent | btw fellow N900 owners, how difficult is it to set up a network connection over Bluetooth between N900 and Ubuntu laptop? | 05:25 |
| Lumpio- | Doesn't you laptop have wifi? | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | PAN? | 05:25 |
| lucent | I want to do windows filesharing and see my shares on the laptop, but the laptop wifi must not be bothered | 05:25 |
| lucent | Lumpio-: don't want to muck about with wifi settings | 05:25 |
| Lumpio- | aw | 05:25 |
| lucent | DocScrutinizer: have you used PAN for a network link with Ubuntu? I tried for 10 minutes to research and do this, the result was not very progressive | 05:26 |
| lucent | looking for some advice now | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=454840#post454840 | 05:26 |
| lucent | oh hm, it's not in a package repo | 05:27 |
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| crashanddie | zerojay: some other mod deleted my response to silvermountain :( | 05:29 |
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| Proteous | you must get him back | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | lucent: aah this one even better: http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles | 05:34 |
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| kamui | *yawn* | 05:35 |
| lucent | DocScrutinizer: bless your heart, thank you for the help | 05:35 |
| lucent | I'm confused, where is my Documents folder on the N900 filesystm | 05:38 |
| lucent | am looking in /home/user/MyDocs it is not there apparently | 05:38 |
| Lumpio- | ...it's hidden | 05:38 |
| Lumpio- | .documents | 05:38 |
| kamui | .documents | 05:38 |
| Lumpio- | Infact all the built-in directories are hidden for some bizarre reason | 05:38 |
| kamui | standard linux | 05:38 |
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| kamui | all .files/directories are hidden from a standard listing | 05:39 |
| kamui | try ls -a to see them | 05:39 |
| lucent | oh huh | 05:39 |
| lucent | got you there, I understand now | 05:39 |
| Lumpio- | Why are they hidden in the first place | 05:39 |
| lucent | though it confuses me greatly - know why this is? | 05:39 |
| kamui | again, standard linux convention | 05:39 |
| kamui | .files tend to be config files | 05:39 |
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| kamui | stuff you dont' necessarily want/need to see | 05:39 |
| kamui | and stuff you dont' want to accidentally fuck up in mass file operations | 05:40 |
| kamui | so they are implicitly ignored in all mass operations | 05:40 |
| kamui | easy to get used to. | 05:40 |
| kamui | what doesn't make sense though | 05:40 |
| kamui | is that it sits on a fat32 partition | 05:40 |
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| Lumpio- | But .documents are something I definitely would like to see | 05:41 |
| lucent | hah | 05:41 |
| Lumpio- | Hiding them makes no sense IMO | 05:41 |
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| kamui | *sigh* | 05:41 |
| kamui | why they hid THOSE directories is a myster | 05:41 |
| kamui | y | 05:41 |
| lucent | naming them dot-something on fat32 is nonsense | 05:41 |
| Lumpio- | ...yeah | 05:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, lol. . . . | 05:41 |
| kamui | im just telling you why its hidden | 05:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, PLEASE ban him. | 05:42 |
| kamui | not WHY they hid them | 05:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, he's an idiotic little troll. | 05:42 |
| Lumpio- | I know how Linux works ¬_¬ | 05:42 |
| lucent | it's interesting that Linux is a viable kernel for mobile computing devices vs. say FreeBSD or something | 05:43 |
| lucent | (not related to previous remarks) | 05:43 |
| Proteous | dont' start that troll topic :P | 05:43 |
| kamui | who's trolling | 05:43 |
| lucent | I just heard this wonderful FLOSS weekly interview, Randal Schwartz interviewed self-proclaimed "FreeBSD Girl" | 05:43 |
| Proteous | no one, move along :P | 05:43 |
| kamui | trollin' for gussy | 05:43 |
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| lucent | okay I'll get to the point, I'm impressed with the organic / chaotic way that Linux development happens | 05:44 |
| lucent | it's just fascinating. | 05:44 |
| Proteous | kamui, emoticons are signposts for sarcasm | 05:44 |
| lucent | hey guys, does it matter which user I effectively am when I do 'gconftool-2' ? | 05:46 |
| lucent | can I be root is that any different outcome than just being user? | 05:46 |
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| Proteous | you can try it and find out | 05:48 |
| Proteous | let us know | 05:48 |
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| ShadowJK | The reason they're hidden is that the File Manager translates them | 05:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, as some product managers at Nokia thought it's *less* confusing to name /home/user/MyDocs "N900" in fileselector of gui apps. And /home/user/MyDocs/.documents "Documentos" or whatever matches your LOCALE | 05:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | kamui, silvermountain. He's an old troll. | 05:52 |
| Proteous | managers are brilliant | 05:52 |
| Proteous | everyone should be working under at least 3 managers for the benefit fo all | 05:53 |
| lucent | that's not a bad idea, at least now that I've heard it explained in context | 05:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | even worse is the fact you got no (sane) means to access *any* files outside MyDocs or uSD card | 05:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | in GUI selector | 05:54 |
| ShadowJK | I don't have an issue with the restricted file manager really | 05:54 |
| SpeedEvil | me neither | 05:54 |
| lucent | DocScrutinizer: that bit me hard when I tried to use a Qt app "KeePassX" | 05:54 |
| ShadowJK | Atleast you don't have to pay extra to get access to files outside the user friendly zone | 05:54 |
| SpeedEvil | but making the names confusing is broken | 05:54 |
| lucent | DocScrutinizer: I had to launch it from commandline | 05:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: actually you have. When you're a app developer that has to write his own fileselector to allow user to "send arbitrary files over BT" (petrovich) for example | 05:56 |
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| ShadowJK | No I mean I as a user don't have to pay 25euro for some "PowerUser filemanager" crapware | 05:57 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I wish | 06:02 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: sadly, I'm not a fully trusted mod | 06:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, :eyeroll: | 06:02 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I'd get my rights removed right away if I tried anything of the sorts | 06:03 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: plus, you only become a supermod when your each 500 posts, bla bla bla | 06:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, where is that written down? | 06:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, get elected for Council and bring the place down. :P | 06:03 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: in a PM from Reggie? | 06:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | That should be documented on the wiki. . . | 06:03 |
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| lucent | well I've veered off-topic, stumped how to share internet connection over bluetooth from Ubuntu | 06:11 |
| lucent | running Ubuntu Karmic here in case one of you fine peoples knows the answer and pity me a clue how to do it :) | 06:12 |
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| Toba | can the diablo apt sources be added to the n900 without causing problems? | 06:59 |
| Proteous | doubt it | 07:02 |
| Proteous | why? | 07:02 |
| crashanddie | Toba: no | 07:06 |
| crashanddie | Toba: a few apps might run | 07:07 |
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| Toba | just wondering if i could get pysqlite running without having to try too hard | 07:10 |
| Toba | but i don't want to mess up my n900 in the pursuit of lazyness | 07:11 |
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| |R | is it normal to have the n900 ring super loudly while on silent profile? and not with the selected ringtone for that matter? (even in non-silent actually) | 07:21 |
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| |R | I'm sure i've installed something stupid but with 110+ shortcuts, it's going to be hard to figure out ... :P | 07:21 |
| gouverneur | |R: doing what while that? | 07:21 |
| gouverneur | listen to music? | 07:21 |
| |R | nothing | 07:21 |
| MiXu- | I've never seen it do that | 07:22 |
| |R | the phone is just there, charged, on the charger. | 07:22 |
| |R | when i get called over SIP at home, (it's on wifi connecter to asterisk) it goes super loudly into a generic ring | 07:22 |
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| gouverneur | no not normal | 07:23 |
| |R | anyway, SIP is borked until PR1.2 (#6936).. i may flash when that comes out, i'll test it tomorrow and see, i'd wake up people at this hour if i tested hehe :/ | 07:24 |
| MiXu- | :) | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | bug 6936 | 07:25 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6936 Caller voice gets minced after some time when taking call via SIP | 07:25 |
| |R | facebook gets XMPP support, this is going to be a mess... when will they add email? | 07:27 |
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| MiXu- | |R: I don't care if it'll be a mess. It's a killer feature \o/ | 07:33 |
| MiXu- | I'll be able to be logged in to facebook 24/7 ;) | 07:34 |
| |R | hehe | 07:35 |
| |R | and i'll be able to never login to it on the web actually haha ;) | 07:35 |
| konfoo | is it just me or is the n900 camera a total pile | 07:35 |
| MiXu- | What's wrong? | 07:35 |
| |R | (I only have a stalker account, everything at off, and you still can't hide fan of !) | 07:35 |
| MiXu- | lol | 07:36 |
| konfoo | focus is always @ infinity | 07:36 |
| konfoo | even after doing a set on it | 07:36 |
| MiXu- | Haven't seen that problem. | 07:36 |
| konfoo | http://www.flickr.com/photos/konstantin/4350761004 like that | 07:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | konfoo, you realize the shutter has a half-step, right? | 07:37 |
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| konfoo | yeah | 07:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then you're either doing it wrong or there's something wrong with your device. | 07:37 |
| konfoo | its doing it on two devices | 07:38 |
| konfoo | it seems to randomly set itself to infinity | 07:38 |
| konfoo | is the camera using a center point for focus or a matrix? | 07:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, we know it works for some people. ;) http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/3970357641/ | 07:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Center. | 07:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thus the bracket. . . . | 07:39 |
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| konfoo | well, my dslrs have brackets as well | 07:39 |
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| konfoo | but you can still set them to matrix | 07:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sure, but the N900 isn't a DSLR. :) | 07:39 |
| konfoo | did i say it was | 07:39 |
| MiXu- | wtf just happened | 07:39 |
| MiXu- | My N900 got completely stuck. | 07:40 |
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| crashanddie | konfoo: take a chill pill | 07:41 |
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| crashanddie | konfoo: the camera will certainly get better -- technically speaking we have free access to it | 07:42 |
| derf | Do we? | 07:42 |
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| derf | Can we fix the horrible "noise reduction" it does? | 07:43 |
| MiXu- | Bah. Had to reboot. | 07:44 |
| villager | noise reduction? what noise reduction? | 07:44 |
| MiXu- | All (cheap) digital cameras do noise reduction | 07:44 |
| villager | I don't see noise-free images from my n900 | 07:45 |
| crashanddie | guys, we're talking about a seriously small sensor | 07:45 |
| MiXu- | villager: It doesn't mean it would be noise free. | 07:45 |
| crashanddie | so as soon as we go over ISO200, you're going to have huge amounts of noise | 07:45 |
| |R | anyone finished hex-a-hop? :P | 07:45 |
| crashanddie | we need to be able to set the shutter speed, and lower the ISO | 07:46 |
| * ShadowJK always wondered if you could make a fake-longshutterspeed by taking several pictures and adding them together | 07:46 | |
| crashanddie | ShadowJK: nha, but you can do HDR | 07:46 |
| angasule | any word on a possible N910? :-) | 07:46 |
| MiXu- | But you can change the iso in the stock camera already? | 07:46 |
| crashanddie | MiXu-: yeah, think so | 07:47 |
| ShadowJK | doesn't multiple exposures add up to a long exposure :-/ | 07:47 |
| MiXu- | angasule: Nokia has promised the next Maemo device in 2010. | 07:47 |
| derf | I'm not complaining that the sensor has noise. I know the sensor has noise. | 07:47 |
| derf | But when you look at stuff like this: http://images.dailymobile.se/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/nokia-n900-camera-samples-03.jpg | 07:47 |
| angasule | MiXu-: cool, thanks for the info :-D | 07:47 |
| angasule | MiXu-: N900 + magnetometer would be neat | 07:47 |
| derf | That's not sensor noise. That's some horrible attempt to clean up the noise gone horribly awry. | 07:48 |
| |R | indeed | 07:48 |
| |R | biggest fail... | 07:48 |
| MiXu- | derf: eww | 07:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | derf, note that the noise reduction has been tweaked since September. :) | 07:48 |
| derf | GeneralAntilles: Sure, that's just a URL I had handy. | 07:48 |
| derf | My images still look like that, though. | 07:48 |
| crashanddie | ShadowJK: no, with proper HDR software you get very balanced pictures, nothing is overexposed | 07:48 |
| ShadowJK | crashanddie, I meant it from the point of view of two 100ms exposures adding up like a single 200ms exposure ;) | 07:49 |
| ShadowJK | but it probably adds noise | 07:49 |
| tigert | morning | 07:49 |
| villager | crashanddie: shutter speed, would that be the exposure setting? | 07:49 |
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| crashanddie_ | ShadowJK: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/HDR_example_-_exposure.jpeg | 07:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | That example sucks. | 07:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | They'd've been better off just taking real pictures. | 07:53 |
| tigert | mm | 07:55 |
| tigert | gpodder cannot stream episodes anymore | 07:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The comments on LWN about the security talk are funny. | 07:57 |
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| tigert | mediaplayer says "cannot find mediafile" | 07:57 |
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| * RST38h moos at all the presentr | 07:58 | |
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| * RST38h managed to screw up the media player yesterday BTW | 07:58 | |
| RST38h | Gave it an H264 encoded video, it said "cannot play" and then could not play any other video, even previously playable ones | 07:58 |
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| RST38h | Hardkilling a bunch of gst processes seems to have cured it but still | 07:59 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 07:59 |
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| ShadowJK | did this start after pr1.1? I forget | 08:00 |
| MiXu- | No, it's been there for a while. | 08:00 |
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| villager | hmm, so (since nobody's explaining it), I'm guessing that shutter speed is the exposure control, and that ISO is the gain control of the sensor? | 08:03 |
| MiXu- | There's no actual shutter, is there :P | 08:04 |
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| villager | it would have to be the digital equivalent... which, in my guess, is exposure | 08:05 |
| MiXu- | yeah, I think so | 08:06 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: I heard of this happening before 1.1 | 08:07 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: And yes it still happens now | 08:07 |
| RST38h | MiXu: Know the bug number for this? | 08:08 |
| RST38h | ah finally a use for laser weaponry: http://gizmodo.com/5470148/this-is-a-mosquito-getting-killed-by-a-laser | 08:10 |
| MiXu- | RST38h: It's a known issue | 08:10 |
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| Toba | creative nick | 08:11 |
| Toba | hah | 08:11 |
| PhonoN900 | good evening, all | 08:11 |
| RST38h | MiXu: Just wondering if anyone is working on it... | 08:11 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h: yeah, had that happen here as well | 08:13 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h: don't know what I tried to play, but suddenly even MP3 wouldn't go | 08:13 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h: had to reboot the device | 08:13 |
| MiXu- | RST38h: I think so yes. I can't go into details. | 08:13 |
| RST38h | MiXu: thanks =) | 08:14 |
| crashanddie_ | bloody hell, noobmonkey is such a twat | 08:14 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Killing gst* processes appears to fix it, but a normal user would have to reboot indeed | 08:14 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts: http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/senate/186/st01/st01777.htm | 08:15 |
| crashanddie_ | he'll go at great lengths to put enormous emounts of sarcasm in his posts, but won't bother adding a link to actually make it useful | 08:15 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h: feck off, I'm not a "normal user" | 08:15 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h: the only thing you did was force a re-read of the available codecs -- list that got corrupted due to a stack overflow when opening mp4 files with a specific codec | 08:16 |
| crashanddie_ | :P | 08:16 |
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| RST38h | crashanddie: same list that is hardcoded?= | 08:18 |
| RST38h | moorning konttori | 08:19 |
| konttori | morning! | 08:19 |
| villager | RST38h: under what circumstances does it happen? maybe I have a similar problem... I reported my problem the bug tracker but not sure I really have a test case | 08:20 |
| crashanddie_ | ShadowJK: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/HDR_example_-_exposure.jpeg <-- the pictures on the left and right extremities are the originals, the middle image is the HDR one | 08:21 |
| * PhonoN900 still has not found a "view", in xchat, that allows me to see who is currently in the channel. Any suggestions? | 08:21 | |
| villager | I can mess up the media player by playing 128K WMA over mms/rtsp or something and then losing the connection | 08:22 |
| villager | then I gotta reboot | 08:22 |
| MiXu- | I has Facebook chat over XMPP! | 08:23 |
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| villager | I has Facebook-free device, even better | 08:24 |
| RST38h | villager: usually a h264-encoded video it cant play | 08:25 |
| RST38h | phonon900: pull left edge | 08:25 |
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| villager | RST38h: okay, maybe not same issue then... I'm just playing audio, and works for a while... | 08:26 |
| PhonoN900 | RST38h: Awesome awesome stuff. Thanks for that | 08:27 |
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| ShadowJK | villager, is there a bug report? | 08:33 |
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| villager | ShadowJK: what, for my problem? | 08:33 |
| LuciusMare | hi, i might have a way how to make a n900 communicate with some electrical circuit... What about the jack and sound tones? You know, you can connect to the internet with telephone and tones... The sound frequency can be like voltage, we just need something that will translate the sound signal to electrical impulses...? Is it a stupid idea? | 08:33 |
| villager | ShadowJK: I reported mine as #8661 | 08:34 |
| pwnguin | LuciusMare: thats basically how the fm reciever works | 08:34 |
| pwnguin | except instead of passing that on to an audio output, you'd do further processing and whatnot | 08:35 |
| LuciusMare | oh. | 08:36 |
| pwnguin | LuciusMare: ive been considering that approach for my own ir detector | 08:36 |
| villager | the n900 doesn't really connect to the internet with tones though... | 08:36 |
| LuciusMare | no no no, i meant like controlling servos, or somewhat | 08:36 |
| pwnguin | s/ir detector/arduino | 08:37 |
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| LuciusMare | oh, so you understood me, i just wasnt sure | 08:37 |
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| villager | presumably you can assert a DC input/output on the sound chip that drives the headphone jack to give a signal, instead of necessarily using external circuitry to convert AC tones | 08:38 |
| LuciusMare | well, after i get my arduino, i will definitely try that ^^ | 08:38 |
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| pwnguin | LuciusMare: keep me posted ;) | 08:38 |
| LuciusMare | yes, of course, but no need to power the circuit from n900 anyway | 08:38 |
| LuciusMare | so thanks guys, gtg, bye | 08:39 |
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| pwnguin | http://pwnguin.net/albums/main.php?g2_itemId=47 | 08:40 |
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| pwnguin | i gotta say i like these jumper wires | 08:40 |
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| pwnguin | they're stranded copper soldered to solid core terminals | 08:41 |
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| crashanddie_ | wow, how fascinating, a picture of wires and a led | 08:48 |
| crashanddie_ | that's not something you see every day | 08:48 |
| pwnguin | i have a video of it where the led changes color :P | 08:50 |
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| crashanddie_ | pwnguin: your life must be thrilling | 08:52 |
| pwnguin | some days | 08:52 |
| RST38h | badly lit, discolored picture of wires and a led made by a cell phone | 08:52 |
| * RST38h giggles satanically | 08:53 | |
| * thresh waves | 08:53 | |
| pwnguin | discolored? | 08:53 |
| pwnguin | badly lit, yes. noisy, yes. cell phone yes | 08:54 |
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| MiXu- | Someone needs to write a software that can be used to mass merge contacts | 08:59 |
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| MiXu- | Would be a nice feature in Hermes | 08:59 |
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| RST38h | pwnguin: tiny little sensors often lose color saturation in bad lighting conditions | 09:00 |
| RST38h | pwnguin: Which is eactly what we see :) | 09:00 |
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| RST38h | Someone needs to write a software that can be used for replacing every freaking 8 in my contacts with the proper +7 =) | 09:01 |
| thresh | well | 09:01 |
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| thresh | do cell operators still report incoming numbers with 8? | 09:01 |
| RST38h | (and yes, I tried editing vcards database) | 09:01 |
| RST38h | thresh: I have got a really old address book. | 09:01 |
| thresh | weird | 09:02 |
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| thresh | incoming calls from cell phones are +7 here, while those that were done with cable phones are reported with 8 | 09:02 |
| RST38h | thresh: As I said, a lot of my contacts are from 2001 or even a bit earlier | 09:03 |
| thresh | yeah, i was mumbling on a side matter, not really related to yours | 09:03 |
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| RST38h | Oh weird...N900 lost networking. Like, totally lost networking | 09:09 |
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| RST38h | Looks like DHCP client has died | 09:10 |
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| tigert | RST38h: perl -pi -e "s/8/+7/g" addressbook-export-file ? :) | 09:18 |
| tigert | with proper regexp of course | 09:18 |
| tigert | then reimport? | 09:18 |
| RST38h | tigert: Yes but won't I get multiple contacts after reimport? | 09:23 |
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| * RST38h is kinda afraid of reimport =) | 09:23 | |
| RST38h | ==> work | 09:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | freaky | 09:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | (the +7 vs 8 thing) | 09:26 |
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| tigert | RST38h: erase all before reimport? | 09:30 |
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| Lantizia | Morning :) | 10:02 |
| Stskeeps | morn | 10:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | :( | 10:04 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone here remember the name of the company which offers MfE support? | 10:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | nuevasync | 10:06 |
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| yakov | hey | 10:10 |
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| yakov | I've converted mwv to mp4 using ffmpeg with default options only set smaller size. my resulting file is about 100M | 10:12 |
| yakov | and it takes ages to open in media player | 10:12 |
| yakov | i did not wait until it start playing | 10:13 |
| yakov | might it be that i need to specify baseline coding for mp4? | 10:13 |
| yakov | are there any peculiarities | 10:14 |
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| ifreq | try with handbrake and some n900 preset users made for it | 10:16 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/south-korean-iphone-users-turn-to-sausages-as-a-cold-weather-me/?s=t5 | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | excellent | 10:24 |
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| Shrik3 | still better than a stylus | 10:25 |
| Shrik3 | since you can eat it when you're done =) | 10:26 |
| MiXu- | Yum | 10:26 |
| Shrik3 | and 100% biodegradable | 10:26 |
| MiXu- | Makes using iPhone 100% more fun | 10:26 |
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| rmrfchik | http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/373780/1b98fb582ab0249c/ | 10:50 |
| rmrfchik | ...open mode, the user cannot run DRM-protected software purchased from the Ovi Store or play music bought from the Nokia Comes With Music store... | 10:51 |
| rmrfchik | who cares about Music store now? | 10:51 |
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| X-Fade | rmrfchik: And then you can probably also not play games like Angrybirds anymore. | 10:52 |
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| asj_ | I'm not so worried about the kernel, but the access control will kill the platform | 10:54 |
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| asj_ | "So the main goal of Nokia's engineers was to create a lightweight system on top of existing Linux security mechanisms, while having to make the smallest possible change to existing applications. The Maemo 6 security system starts from the principle of least privilege: every application should be able to access only a limited set of needed resources" | 10:54 |
| rmrfchik | X-Fade: you mean, games I bought. Who cares now to buy games? | 10:54 |
| asj_ | basically, Symbian Capabilities meets Maemo | 10:55 |
| X-Fade | rmrfchik: No, also gratis games. | 10:55 |
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| rmrfchik | gratis? | 10:55 |
| asj_ | free | 10:55 |
| X-Fade | rmrfchik: Free as in no charge. | 10:55 |
| Stskeeps | asj_: what i've seen of it, it is really a security framework i would want on my PC as well. | 10:55 |
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| rmrfchik | maemo will not able to run j2me? | 10:55 |
| Stskeeps | and i'm paranoid about this kind of stuff normally. | 10:55 |
| asj_ | Stskeeps: you ever worked with symbian? | 10:55 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: don't be thick | 10:55 |
| rmrfchik | i am | 10:56 |
| Stskeeps | asj_: briefly, and nothing of this reminds me of symbian capab in implementation. | 10:56 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: of course j2me will work on maemo 6 | 10:56 |
| X-Fade | asj_: In symbian capablities were awarded per developer. Now it is per repository. | 10:56 |
| rmrfchik | crashanddie: so, why in opensource mode i will not able to run free games? | 10:56 |
| asj_ | Stskeeps: sure, look at this line "but components like cellular functionality or location information will be on that list. The former should be protected because misuse could harm the device, while the latter should be protected because misuse could cause harm to the user." -- until recently location was not on the list of 5 self grantable privs,that only change 8mo ago. | 10:57 |
| X-Fade | asj_: So as long as Extras has the capabilities, we can assign them to your app. | 10:57 |
| rhenz | Ive got problems to ping (or ssh) to my N900. It works only if I start a shell on my N900 and ping some other host | 10:57 |
| Stskeeps | asj_: you can edit your own security policy. | 10:57 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: the writer of the article did a pretty poor job at understanding the principle | 10:57 |
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| rmrfchik | ...in the open mode, which gives them the capability to define their own security policy. | 10:59 |
| asj_ | X-Fade: and wihch capabilities will the extra's repo have? ReadUsrData, WriteUserData, Location, NetworkServices? :) | 10:59 |
| rmrfchik | if I get .jar I will able to run it. will i? | 10:59 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: stop thinking about bleending jar files | 10:59 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: who gives a damn about jar files? | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | asj_: my best argument for the need for this stuff is the fact it is probably possible for a random extras app to explode your battery or overwrite my NOLO. | 10:59 |
| X-Fade | asj_: The idea is to have most, yes. | 10:59 |
| asj_ | X-Fade: that's not most | 11:00 |
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| X-Fade | asj_: No, but also cell etc. | 11:00 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: my understanding is that people who run the Open system will be able to run any kernel/OS they want. At least this is how Elena has been explaining it to me. If you choose to opt in on the Nokia kernel, you will get all the tools and utilities needed to use DRM-protected content, or install DRM protected apps | 11:00 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: if however, you choose to run another OS, there is no guarantee (alas, from Nokia) that the software and content will work; unless the OS/kernel implements the required packages to read it | 11:01 |
| rmrfchik | so, who cares about DRM protected apps now? | 11:01 |
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| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: DRM is just a sideeffect. it's what attracts most people's eyes to the thing, but the good thing is really in the framework itself. | 11:01 |
| asj_ | Stskeeps: and you do have a point there, but the same argument can be made about linux for the last 18 years | 11:01 |
| rmrfchik | I considered to buy something. But not now. Now i think to dump maemo in favor of android. | 11:01 |
| X-Fade | rmrfchik: It depends on what is being done with the default apps though. | 11:01 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: android has exactly the same thing | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | asj_: linux wasn't exactly made for mobile devices that are more promiscious than a slutty american girl getting introduced to european drinking.. | 11:02 |
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| crashanddie | rmrfchik: are you the same troll as yesterday? | 11:02 |
| rmrfchik | i different one | 11:02 |
| crashanddie | but still a troll, thanks for admitting it | 11:02 |
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| asj_ | Stskeeps: no, it's made to be on the front line of the internet with 4 billion infected windows machines knockking on the door ;) | 11:03 |
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| rmrfchik | crashanddie: sure. being a troll allows me to get info | 11:03 |
| rmrfchik | ;) | 11:03 |
| rmrfchik | crashanddie: android is the same thing but it don't pretend to be open | 11:03 |
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| crashanddie | rmrfchik: I'll say the same as yesterday: You do *not* understand the principle, you do *not* understand the consequences, and you definitely don't *understand* the basic advantages. If you can't look past the most obvious points | 11:03 |
| crashanddie | then how about you just sod off? | 11:04 |
| crashanddie | learn to think, for crying out loud | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: how is open anything but being able to run your own kernel, disable drm, use the chip to your own advantage? :P | 11:04 |
| rmrfchik | crashanddie: oh, c'mon. My point is such: maemo6 will open doors for DRM-lovely developers, so they will start to write stuff for maemo6 | 11:04 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: and? | 11:04 |
| asj_ | X-Fade: btw, symbian has 20 different capabilities, or which just to use an example Qt uses 19 ;) | 11:05 |
| rmrfchik | and this stuff will not run on maemo5 | 11:05 |
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| crashanddie | rmrfchik: and? | 11:05 |
| rmrfchik | so, why the hell I need maemo5? i don't. so, dump it. | 11:05 |
| rmrfchik | next. | 11:05 |
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| X-Fade | asj_: We should get all relevant ones. | 11:05 |
| asj_ | so any OSS project with a scope similar to Qt is basically dead on symbian if it weren't owned by Nokia | 11:05 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: you don't, but we use it, so fuck off? | 11:05 |
| rmrfchik | I pretty sure, opensource mode will have a lot ot restrictions | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: like what? | 11:05 |
| X-Fade | asj_: Be assured I'm taking to the right people already. | 11:06 |
| rmrfchik | Stskeeps: unsupported API | 11:06 |
| rmrfchik | u'll see it ;) | 11:06 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: such as? | 11:06 |
| rmrfchik | opengl/es, motion senser, u name it | 11:06 |
| rmrfchik | or GPS | 11:06 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: that has nothing to do with the TPM | 11:06 |
| rmrfchik | "sorry, GPS driver is avail only in DRM mode" | 11:06 |
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| crashanddie | rmrfchik: I'm working on a bloody prototype you idiot, we're miles away from there | 11:07 |
| rmrfchik | crashanddie: being a troll, I don't fuck you. be some polite. | 11:07 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: tone it down a bit please ;) | 11:07 |
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| crashanddie | sure | 11:08 |
| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: my main argument against that happening is that well, if you can run your own kernel, how on earth are they going to limit your access.. | 11:08 |
| rmrfchik | if platform allow to be controlled by vendor -- be sure, they will control it | 11:08 |
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| X-Fade | crashanddie: I'm trying to keep it a at least a PG rating ;) | 11:09 |
| rmrfchik | Stskeeps: heh, n810 has 3d hardware. where the fuck is driver? Ah... it closed. | 11:09 |
| asj_ | http://developer.symbian.org/wiki/index.php/Capabilities_%28Symbian_Signed%29 -- a good link for symbian capabilities if anyone is interested. To write a screen saver for the OLED N85 I had you required: LocalService,ReadUserData,WriteUserData,PowerMgmt,ReadDeviceData,WriteDeviceData,SwEvent,NetworkControl or something like that. | 11:09 |
| X-Fade | rmrfchik: heh, now you are talking to the right person :) | 11:09 |
| rmrfchik | Stskeeps: you think maemo6 hw will be opened for your kernel? | 11:09 |
| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: not true. open source kernel driver, closed source lib (waiting for upload to TI extranet) | 11:09 |
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| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: maemo5 kernel is fully open source. | 11:09 |
| rmrfchik | waiting... I rember old days with zaurus. When some usefull soft comes to it, zaurus was dead. | 11:10 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: you do realise that people are running ubuntu on the N900, right? | 11:10 |
| rmrfchik | Stskeeps: and what about hardware? maemo6 will run on it's own pjone | 11:10 |
| X-Fade | asj_: Capabilities will be detected automatically in the SDK. | 11:10 |
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| rmrfchik | crashanddie: with maemo5, which IS os | 11:10 |
| X-Fade | asj_: No need to request anything manually. | 11:10 |
| rmrfchik | opensource, I mean | 11:11 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: you're wrong on quite a few points, I'm sad to say | 11:11 |
| rmrfchik | show me | 11:11 |
| pupnik | anything new/interesting announced in scrollback? :| | 11:11 |
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| rmrfchik | pupnik: no, just screaming | 11:11 |
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| rmrfchik | ok, I have to go now. be the peace with you, guys ;) (will troll a bit later) | 11:12 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: basically, each device has its own keys, having access to the keys enables you to run and play games and music that you bought from the Ovi store. In order to have access to the keys, you need to authenticate to the HSM, and the only way to do that is by running an authorised kernel. | 11:13 |
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| asj_ | X-Fade: right, I saw that, but presumably is the repo doesn't provide it your app doesn't get compiled and added. So let's see extras doesn't qualifiy for location since you can report nasty things to google/stalk your gf, etc. No one writes gps enabled apps anymore. More realistic is ReadDeviceData where you try and read /proc to override the camera button to provide tast swithing. Sorry not allowed. Or you want access to the system dbus. | 11:13 |
| asj_ | bzzt rejected. | 11:13 |
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| Stskeeps | asj_: best way to ask about intentions is to go talk to the people implementing it. | 11:14 |
| pupnik | but you can load kernel modules into an authorised kernel, right crashanddie ? | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | they're -very- reasonable people. | 11:14 |
| X-Fade | asj_: Yes, simple things like that should really not happen. | 11:14 |
| crashanddie | pupnik: sure | 11:14 |
| pupnik | nice | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | asj_: and they are out in the open and taking questions | 11:14 |
| crashanddie | pupnik: well, if you have a personalised OS/kernel from a network operator, they might limit you | 11:14 |
| pupnik | right | 11:14 |
| X-Fade | asj_: Only very high level capabilities might be an issue. | 11:14 |
| crashanddie | pupnik: however a stock Nokia device that you paid in full should be fine | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: loading kernel modules is a bit of an attack vector though, for a DRM kernel :P | 11:15 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps: not really | 11:15 |
| asj_ | X-Fade: you think they learnt from symbian caps? ;) | 11:15 |
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| crashanddie | Stskeeps: the most important stuff happens in hardware, not software, so whatever accesses the hardware is irrelevant | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: intercepting encrypt/decrypt requests? :) | 11:15 |
| X-Fade | asj_: Look like they take a more minimal approach this time. | 11:15 |
| asj_ | Stskeeps: tell me the right people, I'll email them as well :) | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | asj_: hang on for finding the current threads | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_security | 11:17 |
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| Stskeeps | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43627&highlight=fosdem | 11:17 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps: not entirely convinced by that argument. I yet have to see a smartcard be compromised through software | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: fair enough | 11:17 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps: plus, don't forget that Aegis will limit what is able to happen, so they could full well prevent anything but specific memory bits to access the HSM, if required | 11:17 |
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| crashanddie | X-Fade: I do realise the channel should be PG, but my patience grows thin with these kind of idiots | 11:18 |
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| asj_ | Stskeeps: thanks :) | 11:20 |
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| Stskeeps | asj_: one very important thing i've had to learn about maemoians within nokia is the fact that maemo started as a research project and still has this open spirit. i've caught myself thinking them more 'evil' and 'calculating' than they were and being positively surprised. | 11:22 |
| asj_ | Stskeeps: it's not the maemoans that I'm worried about | 11:22 |
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| jose_manrique | hi | 11:37 |
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| asj_ | heya jose_manrique | 11:43 |
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| jose_manrique | has anybody tried a 2.6.31 kernel in an n900? | 11:48 |
| asj_ | I would love too, but I can't turn off DRM ;) | 11:52 |
| * asj_ stops trolling | 11:52 | |
| pupnik | mytube runs great on pc. lets me see the youtubes without installing flash | 11:52 |
| pekuja | what does it use instead? | 11:53 |
| pupnik | mplayer | 11:53 |
| pekuja | ok | 11:53 |
| pupnik | i think it should go into debian upstream. | 11:54 |
| Corsac | debian already has multiple youtube downloads, epiphany/firefox extension etc. | 11:55 |
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| Corsac | apt-cache search youtube | wc -l | 11:55 |
| Corsac | 16 | 11:56 |
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| pupnik | so what | 12:10 |
| pupnik | "How can so much stupidity fit in one head? I think Seagate or WesternDigital should study such compression techniques." | 12:10 |
| pupnik | none of them do what mytube does | 12:10 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 12:13 |
| pupnik | which is: let you search, browse and download youtubes with previews from a gui | 12:13 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Indeed. More volunteers all round would be good (and some of the ones we've got are fairly quiet in terms of contributions) | 12:13 |
| dov | Is there any package for installing less(1) on maemo? | 12:14 |
| cehteh | in devel | 12:15 |
| cehteh | (or tools? .. forgot, but i have it installed for sure) | 12:15 |
| dov | cehteh: Ok, I'll have a look again, though I thought I checked it already. | 12:16 |
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| pupnik | http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/dual-booting-mer-on-nokia-n900.html | 12:16 |
| dov | (It's a tough name to search for...) | 12:17 |
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| cehteh | woops its even in the main repo by now? | 12:17 |
| dov | Hm... "apt-cache search less | grep less" doesn't find it. | 12:18 |
| cehteh | dov | 12:18 |
| cehteh | http://lumiera.pastebin.ca/1794449 | 12:18 |
| dov | Thanks. | 12:19 |
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| LuciusMare | Hi, what is /usr/sbin/anim-shower for? | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | old tool i think | 12:29 |
| LuciusMare | no animated showers? :( | 12:30 |
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| dov | xev in x11-utils is broken. It doesn't take keyboard focus to the xev window. | 12:33 |
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| yannj | : | 12:34 |
| yannj | :1 | 12:34 |
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| asj_ | Error: Can't open display: :1 | 12:35 |
| Stskeeps | http://blip.tv/file/3209258 <- Mer 0.17 with 3d acceleration on N900 | 12:36 |
| dov | In what directory is the Contact DB stored? I still haven't sync'd my phone. | 12:36 |
| asj_ | Stskeeps: cool | 12:37 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Nice. | 12:37 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Nice Sith look going on btw in the reflection :) | 12:38 |
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| Stskeeps | X-Fade: yeah :P | 12:38 |
| * asj_ doesn't understand hoodies ;) | 12:38 | |
| Stskeeps | it's cold here. | 12:39 |
| X-Fade | wearing one now too. | 12:39 |
| asj_ | Stskeeps: where are you? | 12:39 |
| Stskeeps | asj_: poland. | 12:39 |
| thresh | hoodies are cool | 12:39 |
| asj_ | Stskeeps: ah, you guys have had a rough winter there too? | 12:40 |
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| Stskeeps | asj_: -25 C and a lot of snow | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | (well, not right now -25 C but earlier) | 12:40 |
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| asj_ | Stskeeps: well it | 12:41 |
| asj_ | Stskeeps: well it's +25c here ;) | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | Oh how nice would it be to have that here. Can't wait for the summer. | 12:42 |
| asj_ | it | 12:43 |
| asj_ | it'll be there soon enough | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | eh, people reporting that they received Pandoras in the mail? :P | 12:45 |
| pekuja | I think they've sent them out to some developers | 12:46 |
| pekuja | @Craigix sez: "Another batch of Pandoras made from the last case samples shipped to devs today." | 12:47 |
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| asj_ | pandora? | 12:47 |
| pekuja | asj_: a handheld gaming device | 12:48 |
| asj_ | ah | 12:48 |
| pekuja | asj_: open source, Linux-based, hardware based on Beagle Board, I think | 12:48 |
| fragment | http://www.open-pandora.org/ | 12:48 |
| asj_ | thanks fragment | 12:49 |
| fragment | "same" hardware as in N900 | 12:49 |
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| asj_ | wow, that makes the n900 look non brick like ;) | 12:49 |
| Myrtti | omg ugly | 12:50 |
| Stskeeps | truely designed by engineers | 12:50 |
| thresh | =) | 12:50 |
| asj_ | look where the space bar is ;) | 12:50 |
| RST38h | What? Pandora shipping already? Or have the founders been finally arrested for fraud? | 12:51 |
| pekuja | it is basically made for engineers | 12:52 |
| pekuja | RST38h: not yet | 12:52 |
| * RST38h facepalms slightly | 12:52 | |
| pekuja | RST38h: probably after Chinese new year | 12:52 |
| RST38h | Designed by engineers, for engineers, to be produced by engineers, and sold by engineers to engineers, but not for very long | 12:52 |
| pekuja | the design is pretty nuts | 12:53 |
| RST38h | pekuja: there is no design | 12:53 |
| RST38h | it is a used soap box with some buttons, spraypainter black | 12:54 |
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| pekuja | it's like they had a meeting: "ok, which features should we put in?" "all of them" | 12:54 |
| pekuja | yeah, well I basically mean the feature set | 12:54 |
| RST38h | well, Maemo Devices also seem to have had a meeting like that, but it did not lead to a used soap box | 12:54 |
| pekuja | it's like they just put everything in it that they could possibly think of | 12:54 |
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| ruskie | still wouldn't mind having one ;) | 13:00 |
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| Tronx | possible to manually create the deb file? | 13:04 |
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| Tronx | the applications is just one executable. | 13:05 |
| pupnik_ | yes | 13:05 |
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| Tronx | pupnik_ : ok, thx for answering this question above, how about this one -- how exactly ? ;) | 13:06 |
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| Tronx | the* | 13:06 |
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| BluesLee | felipe`: ping | 13:09 |
| pupnik_ | why do you want to make a deb | 13:09 |
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| Tronx | pupnik_ : to be able to add a shortcut to it to the desktop | 13:11 |
| * satmd had more funny ideas: lock the n900 so an alarm goes off when disconnected from usb | 13:11 | |
| Tronx | the command exec widget is giving me lots of problems | 13:11 |
| pupnik_ | nice | 13:11 |
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| satmd | I just lack the free time currently | 13:12 |
| pupnik_ | a .deb is an ar archive containing control, data. | 13:12 |
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| pupnik_ | extract an existing deb with ar command | 13:13 |
| Tronx | pupnik_ : found a good article, let me read it and i'll come back to you if all else fails. | 13:14 |
| BluesLee | does someone use an msn plugin here? | 13:15 |
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| ifreq | msn pecan | 13:16 |
| MiXu- | I use the pecan also, but not on daily basis. | 13:16 |
| BluesLee | i installed msn pecan yesterday | 13:17 |
| BluesLee | and my battery was completely drained this morning | 13:17 |
| MiXu- | BluesLee: It's because of the MSN protocol | 13:17 |
| MiXu- | It's shit for mobile use | 13:17 |
| ifreq | yeah dont use it 24/7 | 13:17 |
| ifreq | samew with facebook widget | 13:18 |
| ifreq | it polls continuously | 13:18 |
| BluesLee | hehe, i used it 5 minutes, just to test it | 13:18 |
| BluesLee | i turned off wifi | 13:18 |
| ifreq | so no wonder you ran out of batt | 13:18 |
| ifreq | sure your gprs/edge/3g wasnt on? | 13:18 |
| BluesLee | and i was sure that it shutdown the device | 13:18 |
| BluesLee | ifreq: sure | 13:18 |
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| ruskie | use jabber and use a msn transport... let the server handle the nasty protocols ;) | 13:18 |
| ifreq | or did it left you with msn trying to connect into mtework | 13:19 |
| MiXu- | Battery-eye is a nice piece of software for checking the power consumption. | 13:19 |
| ifreq | i disablw msn account when i dont use it | 13:19 |
| MiXu- | me too | 13:19 |
| BluesLee | MiXu-: yes, i checke it with battery-eye (great tool) | 13:19 |
| MiXu- | I just wish it updated itself :) | 13:19 |
| ifreq | heh | 13:19 |
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| BluesLee | do you use the latest version from testing? | 13:20 |
| ifreq | y | 13:20 |
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| MiXu- | Yeah | 13:20 |
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| BluesLee | maybe i retry it | 13:20 |
| ifreq | just disable acc when no use | 13:20 |
| BluesLee | oki doki, i forgot that, nevertheless when going offline with wifi it shouldnt do anything | 13:21 |
| jacekowski | MiXu-: it only shows battery level | 13:21 |
| jacekowski | MiXu-: not power consumption | 13:21 |
| MiXu- | jacekowski: I know | 13:21 |
| Tronx | ok doesnt really seem to make sense | 13:21 |
| MiXu- | But it's pretty easy to look at the graph and figure out the consumption as well. | 13:22 |
| MiXu- | It would be easy to derive the consumption from the readings it gets, so maybe in the next version :) | 13:22 |
| jacekowski | not really | 13:23 |
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| jacekowski | battery isn't linear | 13:23 |
| jacekowski | and it's not accurate enough | 13:23 |
| jacekowski | esspecialy with GSM working | 13:23 |
| Tronx | pupnik_ : i've extracted a deb file a moment ago and just found the files that needed to be extracted, in the form of /usr/bin/file ... | 13:23 |
| jacekowski | as it transmists 8 times per second with full 2W power | 13:23 |
| Tronx | is it that simple ? | 13:23 |
| jacekowski | you need something really fast for it | 13:23 |
| pupnik_ | extracted with what Tronx | 13:23 |
| pupnik_ | ar or dpkg | 13:24 |
| ptl | How do I use the PC Suite Mode when connected to a Linux laptop? | 13:24 |
| Tronx | some tool i found called anytoiso | 13:24 |
| Tronx | windows applications. | 13:24 |
| asj_ | ptl: ifconfig usb0 <ip> | 13:24 |
| pupnik_ | learn to use ar | 13:24 |
| Tronx | ok | 13:25 |
| MiXu- | jacekowski: It doesn't have to be accurate. Average consumption is good enough for me. | 13:25 |
| GEROIN | Hi linuxoids! | 13:25 |
| ptl | asj_: oh, it's just a point-to-point network connection? Anyway, what I meant was, what program do I use to synchronize contacts, todos and so on? | 13:25 |
| MiXu- | I've done power measuring stuff and it's not even possible to make accurate measurements by software. | 13:25 |
| asj_ | ptl: it does more than that | 13:25 |
| cos^ | i'm changing operator and i've inserted the new operator's sim. Is it normal that N900 says "Sim card registration failed"? | 13:25 |
| MiXu- | You need separate hardware for that. | 13:26 |
| cos^ | the new sim _should_ work by now | 13:26 |
| MiXu- | cos^: Yes. Your new sim doesn't work yet. | 13:26 |
| X-Fade | cos^: Then the sim is not activated yet. | 13:26 |
| ptl | asj_: what does it do, which software do I use? | 13:26 |
| asj_ | ptl: Nokia PC Suite | 13:26 |
| pupnik_ | Tronx: see this https://synthesize.us/HOWTO_make_a_deb_archive_without_dpkg | 13:26 |
| ptl | for Linux? | 13:26 |
| cos^ | ok.. maybe i'll just wait and keep rebooting | 13:26 |
| ptl | I am on a Linux laptop | 13:26 |
| ptl | I don't even have Windows | 13:27 |
| asj_ | ptl: that excersize is left to the student | 13:27 |
| Tronx | ok thx | 13:27 |
| Tronx | brb | 13:27 |
| X-Fade | cos^: I think it tries automatically. No need to reboot. | 13:27 |
| ptl | asj_: I am asking the answer to that exercise ;) | 13:27 |
| ptl | gnokii, maybe? | 13:27 |
| BluesLee | MiXu-: is there also an irc plugin for conversations? | 13:27 |
| asj_ | ptl: you'll have to use something like mfe or syncml | 13:27 |
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| ptl | BluesLee: there is, I didn't use it yet, but you can download that plugin | 13:28 |
| ptl | [patola@ubuntola bittornado]% apt-cache search mfe | 13:28 |
| ptl | vdmfec - recover lost blocks using Forward Error Correction | 13:28 |
| ptl | mfe? couldn't find it | 13:28 |
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| ptl | what's mfe, asj_ ? | 13:32 |
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| asj_ | ptl: mail for exchange | 13:32 |
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| ptl | mail for exchange? On Linux? | 13:32 |
| asj_ | maybe there's a linux client? | 13:32 |
| asj_ | you can sync to google via nueva sync then back to linux easy enough | 13:33 |
| ptl | I am a complete alien to the windows world | 13:33 |
| ptl | haven't used it for years | 13:33 |
| BluesLee | hehe | 13:33 |
| ptl | ok | 13:33 |
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| ptl | I'll remap my keyboard | 13:35 |
| alterego | evolution can sync with exchange servers. | 13:35 |
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| ptl | I know but I haven't used evolution for about 3 years, and I never used exchange sync | 13:37 |
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| crashanddie | hey BluesLee | 13:38 |
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| crashanddie | BluesLee: why does your nickname seem familiar? (and don't say martial arts) | 13:38 |
| BluesLee | hey crashanddie, ho r u? | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: btw, carsten@maemo.org doesn't seem to work | 13:39 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps: it's a conspiracy | 13:39 |
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| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Hmm let me check. | 13:39 |
| BluesLee | crashanddie: i am not sure but you tried to convince me that i should call nokia support after removing the "useless" mac os directory in /home:-) | 13:40 |
| BluesLee | or was it someone else? | 13:40 |
| crashanddie | I told you to call nokia support? | 13:40 |
| crashanddie | doubt it, however I do remember something about mac os, so may have been part of the conversation | 13:41 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Works fine from the logs? Check your gmail? | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: hmm, got that one | 13:41 |
| * Stskeeps tests something | 13:41 | |
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| BluesLee | crashanddie: i was wrong, that was someone else ... but we discussed something in the past, i dont remember what | 13:42 |
| BluesLee | does someone knows the app iqnotes? | 13:44 |
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| BluesLee | or qtdiary? | 13:44 |
| BluesLee | i miss something like that, hierachical notes app and a diary app | 13:45 |
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| Hrww | iqnotes... old qtopia times | 13:48 |
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| hrw | BluesLee: try Conboy. it is not hierarchical but linkable notes | 13:49 |
| BluesLee | hrw: your name remembers of a guy in poland | 13:49 |
| hrw | BluesLee: /whois hrw | 13:49 |
| BluesLee | hrw: ahh ... i was formerly known as malik (zaurus times) | 13:50 |
| BluesLee | hrw: i wrote as message in your blog concerning the lack of a good gps app | 13:51 |
| hrw | I know | 13:51 |
| BluesLee | hrw: if navit would be more stable it would be my first choice | 13:51 |
| BluesLee | its much more usable on the neo freerunner | 13:52 |
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| hrw | BluesLee: please... do not mention openmoko devices... I have 2x neo1973 and do not like any | 13:55 |
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| mikhas | 1973 ... they are pretty old then | 13:56 |
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| hrw | mikhas: I got them 3 years ago or sth like that. I was part of 'so called' Phase0 developers | 13:56 |
| BluesLee | hrw: i will give away my zaurus sl3100 tomorrow, good old times | 13:57 |
| hrw | never had 3100. I had 5500 (gave to Thomas Kunze for 2.6 porting), c760 (got as donation, still have). for some time I also had 5600, 6000L, 3000 which were OpenEmbedded project devices. | 13:58 |
| hrw | best combo would be c760 with sl-6000l screen | 13:58 |
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| BluesLee | the screen of the tosa was really great | 13:59 |
| BluesLee | and it was great as a gameboy replacement | 14:00 |
| BluesLee | nevertheless, the n900 is the device of our choice and the best so far | 14:01 |
| hrw | each device has own lacks | 14:03 |
| hrw | nokia tablets lack accessible serial port which was great to have in Zaurus | 14:03 |
| hrw | ok, have to go - bb in ~1h | 14:04 |
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| jacekowski | hrw|gone: why you would need serial port in it? | 14:08 |
| jacekowski | hrw|gone: use can use usb->serial converter in n800 and n810 | 14:08 |
| jacekowski | hrw|gone: and it will probably be possible in n900 in future | 14:09 |
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| X-Fade | zerojay: ping? | 14:21 |
| VDVsx | crashanddie, ping | 14:23 |
| crashanddie | VDVsx: pong | 14:23 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: Bugtracker and description checks deployed. | 14:24 |
| VDVsx | crashanddie, merge request: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44156 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44114 | 14:24 |
| VDVsx | :D | 14:24 |
| crashanddie | bastard | 14:24 |
| VDVsx | X-Fade, cool :) | 14:24 |
| VDVsx | crashanddie, one of the disadvantages of being available on irc :D | 14:25 |
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| crashanddie | VDVsx: You have reached the automated reply bot for "crashanddie", who is not available at the moment. Please leave a /msg after the beep. | 14:25 |
| VDVsx | :D | 14:27 |
| crashanddie | done | 14:27 |
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| Roaziel | Umm, can anyone tell me if ScummVM and DRNokSnes can be installed on N900 and if they're stable? | 14:28 |
| crashanddie | Roaziel: yes and yes | 14:28 |
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| VDVsx | crashanddie, thanks :) | 14:29 |
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| VDVsx | X-Fade, cool: "Warning: This package does not have the required bugtracker link specified!" ;) | 14:33 |
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| Roaziel | Any instruction manual I can read for installing ScummVM and DRNokSnes on N900? :P | 14:40 |
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| VDVsx | Roaziel, these apps are in Extras-devel repository at least | 14:42 |
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| pupnik_ | Roaziel: talk.maemo.org gaming threads have extensive discussions on those programs | 14:46 |
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| Roaziel | extras-devel ? :S.. but they crashanddie said they were stable. Are Extra-devel apps usually umm, waiting to be confirmed as stable? | 14:57 |
| satmd | devel -> testing -> stable | 14:59 |
| satmd | depending on the willing of risking breakage, willing of testing or the no-risk option | 14:59 |
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| pupnik_ | Are there any 3rd party batteries superior to the Nokia BP-5L for N900? | 15:04 |
| pupnik_ | besides the double sized mugen | 15:04 |
| jacekowski | nokia one is the best | 15:04 |
| jacekowski | it's just about physical limit of battery | 15:05 |
| anunakin | I need some help on scratchbox and maemo 5 sdk, I cant install base-passwd package because a error on update-passwd | 15:05 |
| ifreq | i use atom power | 15:05 |
| xt | ifreq: everyone does | 15:05 |
| jacekowski | i'm using diesel power | 15:06 |
| jacekowski | ( no mains electricity for 3rd day already ) | 15:06 |
| ifreq | nuclears ftw | 15:06 |
| matthew- | I use fusion. | 15:07 |
| jacekowski | diesel ftw | 15:07 |
| ifreq | also sacrifying virgins helps | 15:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | np: Prodigy - Diesel power. | 15:08 |
| lcuk | pupnik, i saw something about an extended battery | 15:10 |
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| X-Fade | A second battery doubles the capacity :) That is how I do it when I go away to somewhere where I don't have power for a really long time. | 15:12 |
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| pupnik_ | ok i buy originals then | 15:13 |
| matthew- | ifreq: p-11B cycle FTW! | 15:13 |
| X-Fade | pupnik_: Just put a few in your bag ;) They are so light, you don't notice it. | 15:13 |
| pupnik_ | yeah and i lost one :) | 15:14 |
| thresh | bag? what's that? | 15:14 |
| pupnik_ | or maybe it is in a pocket somewhere :) | 15:14 |
| X-Fade | pupnik_: yeah, light also has it's downsides. | 15:14 |
| X-Fade | thresh: Or pocket. Together with your keys :D | 15:14 |
| matthew- | http://i.imgur.com/59V2r.jpg | 15:14 |
| matthew- | ;> | 15:14 |
| matthew- | SFW. | 15:15 |
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| pupnik_ | wow +5 insightful | 15:15 |
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| pronto | yay my second n900 should be here on monday | 15:20 |
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| jacekowski | second? | 15:23 |
| pronto | my first one broke | 15:23 |
| jacekowski | how? | 15:23 |
| pronto | the usb port came out when i was unplugging it | 15:23 |
| jacekowski | oh | 15:23 |
| pronto | yeah -.- | 15:23 |
| jacekowski | free repair? | 15:24 |
| pronto | free replace | 15:24 |
| pronto | <3 newegg | 15:24 |
| pronto | even if sometimes they're not the cheapest , its worth it for the custommer support | 15:25 |
| pronto | though when i orginnally bought it, dell was the only cheaper place selling the n900 | 15:25 |
| pupnik_ | some intrepid hacker should find a 3rd party lcd that can attach to the n900 board | 15:26 |
| MiXu- | Why? :) | 15:27 |
| pupnik_ | so we can maked little n900 netbooks as hobbyists | 15:27 |
| pronto | haha | 15:27 |
| pronto | that would be awesome | 15:27 |
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| pupnik_ | maybe for n900 push | 15:29 |
| Arif | where is the call log hidden on the N900 | 15:30 |
| Arif | :o | 15:30 |
| MiXu- | in the phone application | 15:30 |
| Arif | ah | 15:31 |
| * Arif looks | 15:31 | |
| * Arif still thinks S60 style | 15:31 | |
| Arif | :D | 15:31 |
| MiXu- | There's only one thing I miss from S60. Sportstracker. | 15:32 |
| Arif | I miss some media player features | 15:32 |
| Stskeeps | e-coach? :P | 15:32 |
| Arif | like when I press back in now playing | 15:32 |
| Arif | the currently playing song was selected | 15:32 |
| MiXu- | Stskeeps: eCoach doesn't have a nice web portal to complement it. | 15:33 |
| X-Fade | MiXu-: yet... | 15:33 |
| MiXu- | In many other ways eCoach is better | 15:33 |
| Markus23 | I think too that eCoach is great | 15:34 |
| Markus23 | had no problem with it so far, and use it a lot | 15:34 |
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| hrw | hi | 15:34 |
| keesj | hi | 15:34 |
| hrw | jacekowski: I do not want to have device->serial but serial->device | 15:34 |
| hrw | jacekowski: it is very useful thing when you develop new kernel or distribution for device | 15:34 |
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| ptl | that is VERY disappointing. :( | 15:35 |
| ptl | I just found out that Maemo 6 will have a drm-enabled mode | 15:35 |
| MiXu- | Anyone checked if it's possible to import existing (sportstracker) workouts to eCoach? | 15:36 |
| X-Fade | ptl: Almost 6 months know now, old news? | 15:36 |
| ptl | X-Fade: old news but I didn't know until now | 15:36 |
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| ruskie | ptl, apparently it will be optional though | 15:36 |
| Arif | DRM is made for your convenience! | 15:36 |
| Arif | .....or so they say | 15:36 |
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| ptl | it will, but the mere option will enable drm-drones to buy the phone and bully the market into it | 15:36 |
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| cehteh | http://kottke.org/10/02/meat-stylus-for-the-iphone | 15:37 |
| X-Fade | What is the easiest way to extract the changelog from a .deb package? | 15:37 |
| cehteh | who likes capacitative displays? :) | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | dpkg-deb -e | 15:37 |
| ruskie | X-Fade, wasn't there a dpkg option to display it? | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | ptl, it will also give you open mode, too :P | 15:37 |
| ruskie | ptl, how will they bully if nobody bothers buying the stuff? | 15:37 |
| hrw | X-Fade: use mc (midnight commander) to view inside? | 15:38 |
| keesj | hrw: the serial certainly is placed behind thbatterye | 15:38 |
| ptl | is there a PDF reader for n900 that has cinetic scrolling like the native one but remembers the pages you were on when you closed the program? | 15:38 |
| hrw | X-Fade: or "dpkg --extract file.deb ." | 15:38 |
| hrw | keesj: sure, and require soldering thin wires to make it fit under battery or making some kind of jig to have battery on cables | 15:39 |
| keesj | i did a sweet hack once for that | 15:39 |
| ruskie | ptl, hmmm I take it evnice doesn't do it? | 15:39 |
| ruskie | Stskeeps, that vid was a bit speed increased wasn't it? | 15:40 |
| keesj | perhaps we should try to request such adapters | 15:40 |
| hrw | keesj: the problem is that I lack 600€ to get another n900 in case something will get fried | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | ruskie: what vid? | 15:40 |
| pronto | wait, ptl drm mode? :s source? | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | the one with the acceleration ? no | 15:40 |
| X-Fade | hrw: I just want to only have the changelog file ;) | 15:40 |
| ruskie | looked like that to me | 15:40 |
| keesj | problematic indeed | 15:40 |
| ptl | ruskie: I installed evince on my emulated N900 and it doesn't do cinetic scrolling there | 15:40 |
| ptl | pronto: yes, that's very bad | 15:41 |
| pronto | thhats evil | 15:41 |
| Stskeeps | sigh, will you drm naysayers look into the actual technology | 15:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:41 |
| Shrik3 | cehteh: 1) 100% biodegradable 2) cheaper than a stylus =) | 15:41 |
| pronto | though, i've never had an issue with drm...since nothing i own has drm xD | 15:41 |
| ruskie | Stskeeps, if it restricts it's pointless :) | 15:42 |
| cehteh | Shrik3: but dont bite in your finger accidentally | 15:42 |
| hrw | X-Fade: dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile file.deb | your script which will get just changelog from tar archive | 15:42 |
| Stskeeps | ruskie: if you can write your own security policy, how does it restrict? :P | 15:42 |
| hrw | ptl: emulated n900? tell me more | 15:43 |
| ruskie | ptl, hmm it does do scrooling... might be somewhat kinetic but yeah it's not like in the address book or others | 15:43 |
| ruskie | Stskeeps, true | 15:43 |
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| ptl | hrw: scratchbox | 15:44 |
| ptl | hrw: It's all on the maemo 5 sdk installation guide | 15:44 |
| hrw | ptl: it is not emulation | 15:44 |
| ptl | ok | 15:44 |
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| ptl | but you got the idesa | 15:44 |
| ptl | *idea | 15:44 |
| hrw | ptl: it is just part of maemo5 running on x86 | 15:44 |
| Stskeeps | ruskie: then again, presenting this stuff at FOSDEM is kinda ball-sy | 15:45 |
| ptl | wine is also not an emulator, but it's close enough for most people... :) | 15:45 |
| hrw | ptl: I have n800 REAL emulator in qemu - thats emulation | 15:45 |
| Stskeeps | it's like waving a red cloth in front of people | 15:45 |
| ptl | hmm | 15:45 |
| ptl | Yeah, I tried running the armel target in scratchbox | 15:45 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: But the code is out in the open now. | 15:45 |
| ptl | it doesn't work for Xephyr | 15:45 |
| ptl | most things dump core. | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: all of it? | 15:46 |
| ptl | so I guess the "real" emulation part is flaky | 15:46 |
| hrw | ptl: I am not talking of sbox running some binaries | 15:46 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: No idea, but there is code in gitorious now. | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: just libcreds2 :P | 15:46 |
| hrw | ptl: you can use qemu to run n800 emulation and use Diablo/Chinook/Poky/anything as system | 15:46 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Well watch that space, or something like tha ;) | 15:46 |
| X-Fade | Hmm I really have packetloss on my keyboard. | 15:47 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: yeah :P | 15:47 |
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| keesj | i liked fosdem saw many n900 devices but no real developer interest in maemo | 15:47 |
| ptl | anything includes fremantle? | 15:47 |
| hrw | keesj: indeed - n900 was at big amount | 15:47 |
| hrw | ptl: give me fremantle for n8x0 | 15:48 |
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| keesj | the ofono talk was followed by only a handfull of people | 15:48 |
| hrw | I had other talks at that time | 15:48 |
| hrw | more interesting ones ;D | 15:48 |
| keesj | ... see .... | 15:49 |
| Stskeeps | keesj: open something sadly doesn't always mean that people will contribute | 15:49 |
| ptl | are you guys bitter about N900? I feel like you don't likeit | 15:49 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not bitter, i use it every day. :P | 15:49 |
| hrw | Freesmartphone.org (FSO) stuff was nice | 15:49 |
| hrw | ptl: I use it every day as a phone and complain even more often | 15:50 |
| keesj | but compared to the maemo event really not much | 15:50 |
| Myrtti | ptl: developers have always things to complain about | 15:50 |
| Myrtti | ptl: don't let it muddle your perception | 15:50 |
| hrw | Myrtti: users too ;( | 15:50 |
| ptl | I was a developer | 15:50 |
| Myrtti | hrw: developers usually have more issues | 15:50 |
| * hrw is more user then developer on maemo5 platform. but more advanced user then n00b | 15:50 | |
| Corsac | n900 is not a phone anyway | 15:51 |
| ptl | well, I'm still sort of a developer, but my job is an Unix System Administrator now | 15:51 |
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| hrw | Corsac: it is good device with crap software | 15:51 |
| ptl | I bought the n900 because that would be the first phone I'd be able to program for. | 15:51 |
| mikhas | I think it is the other way around, hrw =) | 15:51 |
| ptl | I also see it as the other way around | 15:51 |
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| keesj | as embedded engineer if find the n900 an amazing platform to play with | 15:52 |
| LinuxCode | you should be glad there is a N900 | 15:52 |
| Veggen | crap software? What is, isn't bad. | 15:52 |
| * LinuxCode has been waiting years for a device thats running a proper linux distro and has 3g and fits in the pocket | 15:52 | |
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| hrw | ptl: I have 2 openmoko devices | 15:52 |
| Veggen | granted, there's not the selection as for the iPhone. But things have a potential. | 15:52 |
| Arif | I find it a great toy, too | 15:52 |
| Arif | :p | 15:52 |
| hrw | mikhas: hw is nice from my point of view. software has many bugs which will remain not fixed | 15:53 |
| LinuxCode | hrw, are you the project lead for maemo ? | 15:53 |
| LinuxCode | and that is why you know they wont get fixed ? | 15:53 |
| LinuxCode | lol | 15:53 |
| hrw | LinuxCode: 'fixed in harmattan', 'wontfix for fremantle' - heard that too many times now | 15:54 |
| pupnik_ | hrw is pretty accurate there. but "many" is subjective | 15:54 |
| LinuxCode | I see that daily in Fedora too | 15:54 |
| LinuxCode | so ? | 15:54 |
| ptl | LinuxCode: me to | 15:54 |
| ptl | *too | 15:54 |
| Arif | as long as they fix the bug I entered today | 15:54 |
| Arif | ;P | 15:54 |
| hrw | LinuxCode: browser is hildonized nicely. but go to page which has expired ssl certificate and you will get ugly page - wontfix by nokia | 15:55 |
| LinuxCode | if it says wont fix, for the most part people provide no useful information | 15:55 |
| LinuxCode | "ugly" | 15:55 |
| ptl | LEAP support is 'wontfix' :( | 15:55 |
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| ptl | I need LEAP support so badly. | 15:55 |
| frals | s/ugly/default mozilla/ | 15:55 |
| LinuxCode | ptl, LEAP is proprietary | 15:56 |
| hrw | frals: sure, but it remains not hildon style so ugly | 15:56 |
| LinuxCode | tell cisco to change the license | 15:56 |
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| LinuxCode | now you see why people say "wontfix" | 15:57 |
| LinuxCode | not a bug... | 15:57 |
| hrw | bug #6933 is a bug | 15:58 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6933 Alarm times are shown wrong | 15:58 |
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| hrw | bug #8549 is a bug | 15:58 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8549 Skype call/chat to offline contacts ends with wrong text note | 15:58 |
| hrw | bug #7788 is a bug | 15:58 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7788 emoticons are displayed in chat view but messages list do not shows them | 15:58 |
| hrw | etc etc etc | 15:58 |
| ptl | LinuxCode: well, n900 has proprietary code in it. Instead of worrying about DRM in maemo 6, why can't they do something useful when you need to go proprietary? | 15:59 |
| hrw | lack of folder subscription in email client is a bug which hits badly on hundreds of imap folders | 15:59 |
| ptl | oh | 15:59 |
| ptl | btw | 15:59 |
| ptl | what's the best way to use gmail in n900 if you have thousands of unread messages? | 15:59 |
| Myrtti | m.gmail.com | 16:00 |
| Shrik3 | read the damn messages?-) | 16:00 |
| Myrtti | hth, hand | 16:00 |
| Shrik3 | or set up a filter so your inbox won't get flooded | 16:00 |
| keesj | i a all for the maemo security model(what i understand of it) | 16:00 |
| ptl | I tried it on the emula... ooops, sorry, scratchbox environment compiled for x86 and it was slow as hell | 16:00 |
| hrw | bug #72127 is other annoying bug | 16:00 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72127 was not found. | 16:00 |
| ptl | there's a maemo 4 client called macuco | 16:00 |
| ptl | but it isn't ported to the N900 yet | 16:00 |
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| ptl | it's just a webkit browser widget that identifies itself as iPhone and then handles the screen properly | 16:01 |
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| ptl | on gmail | 16:01 |
| keesj | other companies I know are doing a worse job | 16:02 |
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| keesj | horrible job and the maemo security sounds doable | 16:03 |
| keesj | i think they miss good runtime protection of processes | 16:03 |
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| ptl | you saying that there's a real need for drm? | 16:05 |
| ptl | drm is different from security | 16:05 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: drm is just a side effect, main focus is on on-device security | 16:05 |
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| Shrik3 | drm is the way you get commercial software on devices | 16:06 |
| ptl | that's my point, it does not need to be a side-effect | 16:06 |
| ptl | you can get on-device security without drm | 16:06 |
| keesj | indeed i think there is a good need for booth | 16:06 |
| Shrik3 | ptl: how? | 16:06 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: sure, and that's what open mode is also for - making your own security policy | 16:06 |
| Shrik3 | or we might just have different definitions of "DRM" | 16:06 |
| ptl | just apply standard security measures. like, say, firewall, permissions, capabilities, good programming practices, process protection and so on | 16:07 |
| keesj | security first but second help developers sell sofware to make a viable place is a good goal IMHO | 16:07 |
| X-Fade | There are 2 things. There is going to be platform security and drm support. | 16:07 |
| pupnik_ | not being able to use ussd is a catastrophe for german providers | 16:07 |
| ptl | what's ussd? | 16:08 |
| Shrik3 | ptl: and that would stop piracy how? | 16:08 |
| ptl | oh, you said security. | 16:08 |
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| pupnik_ | being able to manage the prepaid account requires this menu system which uses # ans * | 16:08 |
| ptl | security does not really concern unauthorized use of copyrighted software. | 16:08 |
| doubleukay | zerojay: hey, I've used your flash blocker for a day and it's been working well, thanks! | 16:09 |
| keesj | ptl device security is different. go watch the maemo security presentation and come back when you reaaly know what you are talking about | 16:09 |
| ptl | keesj: ok, what's the URL? | 16:09 |
| keesj | google for it! | 16:09 |
| ptl | but I may find the wrong one. Assure I am in the right direction. :) | 16:09 |
| keesj | i a on my n900 | 16:09 |
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| ptl | or at least say the site, that decreases the chance of mistake., | 16:10 |
| pupnik_ | user security is different from content/software provider security ptl | 16:10 |
| pupnik_ | they want to secure their apps from copying | 16:10 |
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| X-Fade | pupnik_: yes, but there is a lot more. | 16:10 |
| ptl | that's sooooo 1999. | 16:10 |
| VDVsx | is some more maemo6 code already out ? other someone made a mistake at -devel ML ? :) | 16:11 |
| X-Fade | pupnik_: Allowing apps to encrypt their data, checking capabilities of an app. Making sure nobody else messes with your own app. | 16:11 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: i assume he's getting spanked with birc leaves in public at the moment as punishment | 16:11 |
| keesj | the main thing is that YOU also dont want every stupid app that you download to be able to read youperswonal data | 16:11 |
| pupnik_ | ty X-Fade | 16:11 |
| ptl | <flame>So, DRM is really an enabled for immorality and immoral software?</flame> | 16:11 |
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| ptl | *enabler | 16:11 |
| keesj | security is developed on gitorious | 16:11 |
| Stskeeps | or for hiding your porn website history from your wife | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | depending on perspective | 16:12 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, ehehe, not a big deal, I think | 16:12 |
| nid0 | thats what microb needs, inprivate! | 16:12 |
| ptl | keesj: but that's fine-grained access that can be implemented using capabilities and no DRM at all, isn't it? | 16:12 |
| X-Fade | Or securing your phonebook, local files. | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: capabilities are notoriously broken in that regard :P | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | dbus security is an interesting thing, too | 16:12 |
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| ptl | so, let's say dbus security. Ok, so we got a solution. Then why DRM? | 16:13 |
| keesj | we are talking about security not drm. drm is the side effecg that one app can hide the data from the other apps | 16:13 |
| ptl | DRM is bad in all cases, in my opinion. You don't have an organization that's deemed to stop dbus security, do you? | 16:13 |
| X-Fade | ptl: You really need to read the slides. | 16:13 |
| ptl | The guys from Defective by Design know better | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: you need to read all the Q&A stuff and slides | 16:13 |
| ptl | X-Fade: I am keen to... | 16:13 |
| keesj | dbus only work on user security so..... | 16:13 |
| X-Fade | ptl: they are on slideshare. | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: DRM is a side effect to a security framework. security framework makes it possible, but you don't need DRM to use security framework. | 16:14 |
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| keesj | they added security to the dbusdaemon to support theire security model. | 16:14 |
| crashanddie | I love how people complain, and when you point out they should've been just a tad more patient, suddenly you're the bad guy for implying they were impatient... | 16:15 |
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| ptl | is that the URL? http://www.slideshare.net/reshetov/maemo-platform-security-fosdem | 16:15 |
| ptl | there is another for maemo 6 specifically | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | this one is most recent | 16:16 |
| X-Fade | ptl: maemo 5 has no platform security ;) | 16:16 |
| X-Fade | ptl: So ... | 16:16 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: sure it has plenty of security... You can... Oh wait | 16:16 |
| crashanddie | :D | 16:16 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: user / root, that is about it :) | 16:17 |
| Stskeeps | ruskie: why did you think the video is speed up btw? it's actually how fast it goes :) | 16:17 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: at least the passwords aren't stored in unencrypted text files... oh wait | 16:17 |
| ptl | X-Fade: so that's why it's am fabulous platform | 16:17 |
| ptl | X-Fade: why made it worse on purpose? | 16:17 |
| pupnik_ | god damn these carriers. sucking my money and blocking service | 16:18 |
| X-Fade | ptl: Wait until some app causes your phonebill to be $10000,- | 16:18 |
| crashanddie | ptl: it's not worse | 16:18 |
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| ptl | X-Fade: you make it sound like open-source is insecure... | 16:18 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: nou dat is echt een Hollandse manier om een getal te schrijven ;) met ",-" op het einde | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: the current problems are people complaining their IM passwords are plain text, for instance | 16:19 |
| ptl | because that's what's being compared here | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | this could be fixed with security framework | 16:19 |
| X-Fade | ptl: It can be. Just like closed source can be. | 16:19 |
| ruskie | Stskeeps, your hand movements seem faster than I would expect | 16:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Some aspects of it. | 16:19 |
| X-Fade | ptl: I just would like to know about it. | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | ruskie: i have really fast and creepy hands | 16:19 |
| SpeedEvil | A comprehensive security framework that doesn't get in the way is hard. | 16:19 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: yeah yeah, dutchman is creeping up sometimes. | 16:20 |
| Arif | hmm | 16:20 |
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| Arif | I've been thinking | 16:20 |
| ptl | X-Fade: it can, but not by itself, it's not mandatory, and you are using it in contrast with being able to store encrypted passwords | 16:20 |
| derf | If it doesn't get in the way, it's not security. | 16:20 |
| Arif | a battery and signal indicator on the "slide to unlock" screen would be nice | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | And that doesn't impact performance much | 16:20 |
| keesj | :p | 16:20 |
| ptl | *much* | 16:20 |
| ptl | but does | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | either way | 16:20 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: I'm afraid it never really leaves ya | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | should we let them release examples of use and the source before we condemn them to death? :P | 16:20 |
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| Stskeeps | let practice speak for itself | 16:21 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: at some point you might convince people you're south african, but that's about as good as it'll get | 16:21 |
| ptl | well, but it is the practive speaking for itself | 16:21 |
| ptl | drm has been there for years | 16:21 |
| ptl | and I haven't recalled seeing a single good case for it. | 16:21 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: I can pull off a belgian quite nicely though ;) | 16:21 |
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| ptl | it's all about disabling legitimate rights. | 16:22 |
| sivang | do we have phone switch for Fremantle ? | 16:22 |
| sivang | (sorry about the abrupt entrance) | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: or protecting your content | 16:22 |
| sivang | (and hi to all) | 16:22 |
| ptl | using the badly named "piracy" as a lame excuse | 16:22 |
| sivang | timeless: still here? | 16:22 |
| X-Fade | ptl: Most of this security is really not about drm at all. | 16:23 |
| lbt | what does (#) mean? | 16:23 |
| ptl | X-Fade: so keep the non-drm part! Why the open source guys can't get the secure part? | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: sure they can | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: that's the point | 16:23 |
| lbt | like \o/ ? | 16:23 |
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| X-Fade | ptl: It is just like SELinux in a lot of respects. | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: if you don't want DRM, you're more than free to not have it | 16:23 |
| dneary | hi | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | and use the security framework for your own abilities | 16:24 |
| dneary | amigadave, Ping? | 16:24 |
| keesj | i don't think tere are many examples of good but open security applied to the phone usage senario | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | ptl: And there is a drm component too. But that part sets of red flags so that you can't think clearly anymore ;) | 16:24 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl: I want to give my child the phone - to amuse them in the car. I trust them to not throw it out the window. I do not trust them to not go looking for porn. | 16:24 |
| ptl | Stskeeps: can I choose to not have DRM and have the rest of the security framework? I am reading the presentation and it doesn't seem possible | 16:24 |
| keesj | i did not look at palm pre yet so i don't know what they did | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: yes | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | ptl: Yes, you can. | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | ptl: In open mode, the device key for the drm part is not available. So drm doesn't work. | 16:25 |
| amigadave | dneary: pong | 16:25 |
| w00t | http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/south-korean-iphone-users-turn-to-sausages-as-a-cold-weather-me/ <- hahaha. | 16:25 |
| X-Fade | ptl: But you still have the platform security, only now you can specify the policies. | 16:25 |
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| ptl | *this choice | 16:26 |
| ptl | well, I have to say it's not as bad as I thought then, but I still think having this choise is not good, because the proprietary software industry will bully the viability of this future device being closed-source, copyrighted and patented material only, and again the open-source programmers will have to play catch... | 16:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | smaug: before i forget, the answer to who improves modest is: you, it's 100% opensource @ modest.garage.maemo.org | 16:28 |
| timeless_mbp | Nokia doesn't micro manage the project, and if there are improvements in modest, then they should appear in future versions released by nokia | 16:28 |
| X-Fade | ptl: It being a phone brings some resposibilities for us too. Not giving users a high phonebill or making sure your facebook password isn't uploaded is crucial. | 16:28 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry for the terrible delay | 16:28 |
| timeless_mbp | the only mail related things which aren't opensource are MfE/pcsuite/nokia messaging, which are just sync / provider plugins | 16:29 |
| ptl | X-Fade: agree on that | 16:29 |
| ptl | X-Fade: disagree on drm | 16:29 |
| keesj | so the biggest problem (for me) is that it will be nokia who in the end will say if your application is allowed to access the phone functionality and i reaaly hope (but dont thing so) the phone can be used in insecure mode | 16:29 |
| ptl | agree on aegis security model | 16:29 |
| ptl | on encrypted passwords and such | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: one example that actually did happen was the FM radio causing the microphone not to work and hence disrupting emergency calls etc.. which points to the need for security within the OS | 16:29 |
| X-Fade | ptl: But you can just boot your own kernel and not use it. | 16:30 |
| Stskeeps | right now, an installed app has access to everything | 16:30 |
| cpasjuste | is there a package size limit when installing with hildon package manager ? | 16:30 |
| X-Fade | I still think we need to have a discussion on the 'killswitch' too. | 16:30 |
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| ptl | but look | 16:30 |
| X-Fade | Should the community be able to kill a obviously broken app. | 16:31 |
| ptl | this security model is about: YOU deciding whether or not the software makes some stuff or not | 16:31 |
| X-Fade | Or warn the user in some way. | 16:31 |
| ptl | but DRM is the opposite: the SOFTWARE deciding for you how you use your device | 16:31 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl: no it's not. | 16:31 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl: you can use DRM under the users control to enforce their wishes. | 16:31 |
| RST38h | pt1 is right | 16:31 |
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| RST38h | DRM decides for me on the use of BitTorrent | 16:32 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Which will still work in Maemo 6. | 16:32 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: So options enough. | 16:32 |
| RST38h | hopefully :) | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | ptl, in implementation DRM is about keeping cryptographic keys secret and content secret | 16:32 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl: I don't want the wallpaper with moving boobs according to the accellerometer to have access to the phone. This can be done with the aid of DRM | 16:32 |
| RST38h | Speed: Can't | 16:33 |
| X-Fade | SpeedEvil: No, that is done with platform security. | 16:33 |
| RST38h | Speed: All DRM can do is prevent you form fondling those boobs | 16:33 |
| ptl | Stskeeps: I know, it shares a lot with standard security, it overlaps indeed. But the bad part is what it is used for, and it's for limitting you, not your software. | 16:33 |
| X-Fade | SpeedEvil: Not drm. | 16:33 |
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| Stskeeps | ptl: of course, and if you're liberal, you choose a mode where the DRM doesn't work | 16:33 |
| Stskeeps | at least you have the choice | 16:33 |
| Stskeeps | the challenge is to avoid anything but the DRM getting broken when you switch modes. | 16:33 |
| Stskeeps | and that's where it will be interesting to see nokia's policy on it | 16:34 |
| ptl | If software providers bully the usability of the device for the DRM-only mode, you have no practical choice | 16:34 |
| ptl | that's my point | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | ptl, agreed, policy is a discussion point | 16:34 |
| ptl | software providers and their sheep users | 16:34 |
| smaug | timeless_mbp: hah. Sorry, just now I'm busy enough with some other open source project :) | 16:35 |
| timeless_mbp | smaug: yeah, i know the feeling | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: but either way, it's up to you if you want to let the application restrict your use further. | 16:35 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm currently adding more projects | 16:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'm poking hudson, symbian, xerces | 16:35 |
| timeless_mbp | i need to poke sqlite again | 16:35 |
| timeless_mbp | sdwilsh promised to help me | 16:35 |
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| crashanddie | timeless: xerces? Java or Cpp? | 16:35 |
| timeless_mbp | cpp | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: but yes, intended policy will be interesting to see. | 16:36 |
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| Stskeeps | i'd like to hear how shut down DRM mode truely is. | 16:36 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: why? | 16:36 |
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| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: I ported the initial version of xerces-cpp to Maemo | 16:37 |
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| Stskeeps | ptl, but i think we can all agree on that the proposed security framework is not evil and it enables choice instead of taking it away from you unless you agree to | 16:37 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/XERCESC-1911 | 16:37 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: sent back a few bugfixes to mainstream so that it would compile (nearly) out of the box | 16:37 |
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| Stskeeps | (and that content providers/etc can choose to not let you have their content if it's not securely treated) | 16:38 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: i'd appreciate any help to get that committed | 16:38 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 16:38 | |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: check out the patch size :) | 16:38 |
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| *** crashanddie sets mode: +b *!*~jansimon@*.dip.t-dialin.net | 16:38 | |
| *** dl9pf was kicked by crashanddie (dl9pf) | 16:38 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 16:39 | |
| crashanddie | VDVsx: unban the guy later today, k? | 16:39 |
| keesj | so lack of focus for maemo on fosdem worries me. if maemo is not interesting for linux people we have a big problem. can we expect the interest to grow? | 16:40 |
| Myrtti | crashanddie: +b *!*jansimon@*.dip.t-dialin.net$##fix_your_connection | 16:40 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: page isn't loading -- wifi is crap | 16:40 |
| VDVsx | crashanddie, there's a better way to ban in these situation | 16:40 |
| VDVsx | exactly what Myrtti said :) | 16:40 |
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| crashanddie | Myrtti: he's not having a problem with his connection, he's DCC'ing | 16:40 |
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| crashanddie | as soon as he's done downloading pr0n, he will be stable again | 16:41 |
| lcuk | keesj, lack of interest? | 16:41 |
| lcuk | did oyu see how many n900s there was? | 16:41 |
| crashanddie | were | 16:41 |
| keesj | device yes many | 16:41 |
| lcuk | no actually crashanddie i meant "you" | 16:41 |
| crashanddie | oh, now that I think of it, I saw my first N900 in the wild here in Brisbane | 16:41 |
| Myrtti | crashanddie: that has happened with non-dccing people after the new ircd because they've joined too many channels without enough time between the /joins. it's not necessarily dcc. | 16:42 |
| keesj | and at my work i now have two collegues with devices | 16:42 |
| Myrtti | (or because their irc clients have been shite) | 16:42 |
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| crashanddie | Myrtti: will that send him to a specific channel? | 16:42 |
| Myrtti | anyway, I need to leave for the weekend forced labour camp | 16:42 |
| Myrtti | crashanddie: yes, to the one after the $ sign | 16:42 |
| crashanddie | Myrtti: k | 16:43 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 16:43 | |
| lcuk | keesj, we did not have a focused booth tho, there were presentations given wrt to | 16:43 |
| lcuk | i see what you mean now i think | 16:43 |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: -b *!*~jansimon@*.dip.t-dialin.net | 16:43 | |
| lcuk | isnt linuxtag coming up again | 16:43 |
| mgedmin | ah, so that's why xchat delays every channel join on startup by about 1s | 16:43 |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: +b #maemo!*@* | 16:44 | |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: +b *!*jansimon@*.dip.t-dialin.net$##fix_your_connection | 16:44 | |
| crashanddie | woops | 16:44 |
| Myrtti | woops indeed | 16:44 |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: -b #maemo!*@* | 16:44 | |
| crashanddie | sorry 'bout that | 16:44 |
| keesj | it's all because of qgil not comming | 16:44 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 16:44 | |
| Myrtti | yeah, now that he's banned from here, he stopped excess flooding himself out and his connection is stabler | 16:44 |
| Myrtti | from looking at #mer | 16:45 |
| crashanddie | Myrtti: so maybe it was a DCC... | 16:45 |
| crashanddie | :P | 16:45 |
| Myrtti | or just because it was 537 nicks less or something | 16:46 |
| Myrtti | I'm not completely certain about the little details, but that is usually what happens, when they're blocked from a fairly big channel | 16:46 |
| crashanddie | I still have trouble seeing #maemo has a "fairly big channel | 16:47 |
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| ptl | Stskeeps: I was away. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly on that | 16:48 |
| keesj | bbl | 16:49 |
| cehteh | uhm .. ovi maps is da suck ... | 16:49 |
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| crashanddie | I wonder if we could do a "No moaning day" | 16:49 |
| cehteh | tried to route for biking, choosen 'by foot' .. gives: cant calculate pedestrian routes longer than 50km | 16:49 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: which is reasonable? | 16:49 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, mmm 15th biggest out of 5000 channels and has more users than #freenode itself \o/ meh | 16:50 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: serious? Wow | 16:50 |
| nid0 | if you're biking, whats wrong with "by car"? | 16:50 |
| lcuk | its got ~ same number of users as #c | 16:50 |
| crashanddie | nid0: because he's a plonker who's afraid of driving on the motorway :P | 16:50 |
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| lcuk | its hardly small and "fairly big channel" would seem to be accurate | 16:51 |
| nid0 | im sure there must be an exclude motorways option, even ovi cant be that bad? | 16:51 |
| crashanddie | reminds me, when I was driving down from Australia Zoo the other day, I saw a biker go at roughly 50kph | 16:51 |
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| nid0 | k the marketing emails from nokia about winning a trip to paris are getting annoying now :< | 16:52 |
| cehteh | nid0: bike routes differ much from car routes here | 16:52 |
| nid0 | they know I own an n900, it's right next to the advert for the holiday :( | 16:52 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: I'm pretty sure bike routes differ much from pedestrian routes as well | 16:53 |
| cehteh | yeah .. neither matches | 16:53 |
| cehteh | but pedestrian usually matches better | 16:53 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: unless you really want the nice gravel, the stairs and the angry pedestrians | 16:53 |
| cehteh | :) | 16:53 |
| cehteh | i hope mamemo mapper makes some progress :/ | 16:53 |
| cehteh | downloading maps and so on | 16:54 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: I'm not aware of any website that offers bike-trails | 16:54 |
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| crashanddie | at least, not in a google maps/queriable maps format | 16:54 |
| cehteh | opencyclemap? | 16:54 |
| crashanddie | ? | 16:54 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: btw, who needs a map to cycle, anyhoo? | 16:55 |
| cehteh | http://www.opencyclemap.org/ | 16:55 |
| cehteh | heh | 16:55 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: just get on yer bike and go, anywhere | 16:55 |
| hrw | cehteh: so far there is no usable navigation app for maemo5 | 16:55 |
| cehteh | well .. in summer i sometimes bike overnight, having a map and gps is some good thing then | 16:55 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: what do you think of the "no-moan day" idea? Achievable? | 16:56 |
| cehteh | and otherwise i sometimes choose bike to reach something ... | 16:56 |
| lcuk | ive been working, where was this discussed | 16:56 |
| cehteh | like going to conferences or so | 16:56 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: even when I do overnights, I just use the GPS to see where I'm at, and which direction I need to follow. After that road signs or bicycle paths usually lead the way | 16:57 |
| cehteh | yeah | 16:57 |
| cehteh | well some time ago (before n900) i had only gps without maps | 16:57 |
| crashanddie | it's impossible to follow turn-by-turn on a bike anyway | 16:57 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, when the commonwelth games game to uk (i think), there were a cycling team from some random country | 16:57 |
| cehteh | thats a bit pita when you find yourself in a dead end at night | 16:57 |
| lcuk | who got cautioned for cycling up the motorway | 16:58 |
| cehteh | i dont want turn by turn | 16:58 |
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| Veggen | lcuk: heh, I remember when I got a new gps, and tested it in Paris, when my sister picked me up... | 16:59 |
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| Veggen | It kept telling me "do a U-turn", which I relayted to my sister.... | 16:59 |
| * hrw wants TomTom like app for maemo5. same features I mean | 16:59 | |
| lcuk | http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/funny_old_game/2151150.stm | 16:59 |
| Veggen | "No way", she said. This is correct. | 16:59 |
| * jon1012 wants turn by turn on his n900 | 16:59 | |
| Veggen | we got to where we were going - she was, after all, living there :) And then I checked the settings. Seems I had told it I was going by bike, so what it *did* tell me, was "turn around and get off the highway, you idiot!" | 17:00 |
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| hrw | jon1012: and voice selection and offline poi? | 17:00 |
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| jon1012 | why not... but turn by turn would be a good start | 17:01 |
| crashanddie | Veggen: yeah, like once you're on the motorway, turning around in the middle of it is better than going further... | 17:01 |
| hrw | jon1012: maemo7 will have first attempt at it I heard | 17:01 |
| doubleukay | hm whiel we're on this topic - does anyone's n900 show that they're moving (~2km/h) when they're actually stationary? | 17:01 |
| jon1012 | hrw: but maemo 7 wont run on my n900 | 17:01 |
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| hrw | jon1012: who knows what future will bring | 17:02 |
| nid0 | the speedo app on mine sometimes insists its doing 1mph while sitting on my desk, closing/reopening the app often clears that tho | 17:02 |
| jon1012 | hrw: since nokia wants n900 buyers to fuck themselves with | 17:02 |
| jon1012 | sharpnels | 17:02 |
| VDVsx | wow maemo 7, what about maemo6 ? :D | 17:02 |
| jon1012 | :) | 17:02 |
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| Veggen | doubleukay: not unusual. | 17:02 |
| lcuk | nid0, desk on a gradient? | 17:02 |
| nid0 | no | 17:03 |
| lcuk | i made my gps tell me i was travelling at 70mph before now :) | 17:03 |
| cehteh | hehe .. i wonder what nokias plans are with maemo6 when all devs have an n900 :) | 17:03 |
| lcuk | by spinning it round my head | 17:03 |
| sharpneli | wat | 17:03 |
| doubleukay | Veggen: ok thanks for affirming | 17:03 |
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| Veggen | It's common for GPSes, as they are not accurate enough, really. So it will have a different position than last calculation, which it interpret the only way it can: movement. | 17:03 |
| doubleukay | Veggen: don't they use doppler shift to measure speed? | 17:04 |
| doubleukay | I'm not sure how, but my recreational garmin puts me at zero speed when I'm stationary | 17:05 |
| sandman | Soo.. there. Now i have ordered a N900 as the community looks wounderful. I have a question thugh. Is there or are it possible by script to close everything except telephone function to save battery? Or is there alredy a dist like that? Or is that something plausable to make? | 17:05 |
| hrw | doubleukay: but garmin is in gps business since beginning. nokia is not so long | 17:05 |
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| hrw | cehteh: by 'all devs' you mean 'in-nokia devs', 'community devs' or 'all devs'? | 17:06 |
| cehteh | community of course | 17:06 |
| pupnik_ | sandman mu | 17:06 |
| lcuk | sandman, its not ususally the idling daemons that cause the battery drain | 17:06 |
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| lcuk | its high demand apps | 17:06 |
| pupnik_ | "mu" unasks the question | 17:06 |
| sandman | ok, so there is little point making something like that? | 17:07 |
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| RST38h | "When will Symbian compile?" | 17:08 |
| * RST38h is too tired to facepalm | 17:08 | |
| Myrtti | "will it blend" | 17:08 |
| tigert | =) | 17:08 |
| Myrtti | "BRRRRRRRZZZZZZZH" | 17:08 |
| Myrtti | "YES IT BLENDS!" | 17:08 |
| doubleukay | ahh.. I went to my balcony where it could see more birds, and now it shows 0.06m/s +- which is more reasonable | 17:08 |
| cehteh | sandman: only for daemons which behave badly .. but you dont want them in first place | 17:09 |
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| hrw | cehteh: why they would have to worry about them? users will buy next phone because marketing will be aggressive enough. some devs will follow crowd sooner or later | 17:09 |
| cehteh | usually things just go into wait for something to go and dont need power then | 17:09 |
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| cehteh | if you configure it that it polls email, rss or whatever it wakes up of course .. but thats you who wanted it this way | 17:09 |
| hrw | cehteh: nokia forgets about previous model when new one is released - check 770/n800(n810(we))/n900 | 17:09 |
| Veggen | "balcony"...mmmm, I'm longing for the time when it's not filled with snow ;) | 17:10 |
| crashanddie | Veggen: I'd wish my balcony wasn't at 32 degrees | 17:10 |
| cehteh | hrw: lets wait and see, nokia may forget, but community may stay a bit longer with n900 because not everyone can afford a new device every half year | 17:10 |
| sandman | ok, so it's better to keep away from big apps. No point in making something that don't improve. Thanks for the insight ;) | 17:12 |
| cehteh | my vague guesses would be that a predcessor to the n900 will be less interesting for geeks but more mainstream/waf | 17:12 |
| cehteh | sandman: not the size matters, programmers knowledge does | 17:13 |
| sandman | hehe.. yeah and conky ;) | 17:13 |
| cehteh | conky east battery by itself | 17:13 |
| cehteh | top -d 300 | 17:14 |
| sandman | yeah, you are true | 17:14 |
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| tigert | the battery life with built in apps and just cellular online is pretty ok | 17:14 |
| tigert | battery eye is a nice app | 17:15 |
| tigert | draws a graph which shows consumption well | 17:15 |
| sandman | ahh.. there is a program. cool | 17:15 |
| tigert | likely consumes a bit by itself of course | 17:15 |
| pupnik_ | i see amazon.de offers for bp-5l batterym from 7 to 30 euro. what should a REAL nokia bp-5l cost? | 17:15 |
| tigert | but it has a bg process that records stuff | 17:15 |
| cehteh | and battery eye draws battery by itself too .. but well .. looks ok so far | 17:15 |
| tigert | yea | 17:16 |
| RST38h | pupnik: the more real, the more expensive =) | 17:16 |
| RST38h | 30 euro is the most real of 'em all | 17:16 |
| cehteh | iirc i seen original for as cheap as 34 Eur | 17:16 |
| tigert | the n900 built in sw is pretty well tuned for good batterylife | 17:16 |
| RST38h | The 7 euro one is made of vapor and feces | 17:16 |
| RST38h | ===> home | 17:16 |
| hrw | pupnik_: go to nokia store and check how much they want | 17:16 |
| tigert | its the active use that drops cpu from sleep mode that eats juice really fast :/ | 17:17 |
| pupnik_ | argh BL-5J | 17:17 |
| cehteh | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22691 | 17:17 |
| cehteh | urgs | 17:17 |
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| hrw | I was surprised when saw that n900 battery is smaller then e66 one but has bigger capacity. | 17:17 |
| tigert | batteryeye also makes a nice steeeeep slope when you keep 3G online :S | 17:17 |
| * cehteh waits for a standard sized higher capacity battery | 17:18 | |
| nid0 | conversely, the n900 battery is about the same size as the e90 battery and with lower capacity :( | 17:18 |
| doubleukay | cehteh: o | 17:19 |
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| doubleukay | cehteh: I'm ordering that one, it should arrive in a few weeks | 17:19 |
| cehteh | doubleukay: install battery-eye and report | 17:19 |
| cehteh | i bet it will be crap | 17:19 |
| doubleukay | oh wait, sorry it's the $20 one I'm ordering | 17:19 |
| cehteh | heh ok | 17:19 |
| doubleukay | which is still dubiously cheap | 17:19 |
| cehteh | maybe the first charge gets 1200mah but these decay quite fast | 17:20 |
| sandman | is there a list or something on app battery consumption? Like a recommended type of list | 17:21 |
| cehteh | with a device like the n900 where you charge 1-2 times a day bad batteries will wear out really fast | 17:21 |
| doubleukay | nod | 17:22 |
| cehteh | sandman: just dont care unless you have some really bad app, battery life is ok and if you disable 'normal' behaving apps the savings will be minute | 17:22 |
| sandman | cool | 17:22 |
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| X-Fade | cehteh: more than once a day? What are you doing? :) | 17:22 |
| cehteh | who cares if its 15hrs or 15:30 hrs of normal usage? | 17:23 |
| pupnik_ | could a 11 euro bl-5j be real? | 17:23 |
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| X-Fade | pupnik_: probably not. | 17:23 |
| cehteh | X-Fade: when heavily playing, video, games, network and so on | 17:23 |
| doubleukay | is there a way to disabling 3.5G while leaving 3G enabled? | 17:23 |
| X-Fade | cehteh: Yeah, that is the 'first week' effect ;) | 17:24 |
| pupnik_ | lots of fraudulent sellers on amazon.de then | 17:24 |
| X-Fade | cehteh: First week the battery doesn't last because you try everyting. | 17:24 |
| cehteh | actually i keep mine in the charger when sitting stationary, not too good for the battery either, but i dont care and i have a full battery when leaving the house | 17:24 |
| X-Fade | cehteh: It actually discharges when green led is on. | 17:24 |
| cehteh | i know | 17:24 |
| cehteh | besides this green led is yellow blinking here :P | 17:25 |
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| cehteh | modded mci.ini | 17:25 |
| X-Fade | hehe | 17:25 |
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| red | would be nice to be able to create a schedule for battery charging | 17:28 |
| cehteh | http://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/279964276-mobile-phone-battery-BL-5J-high-capacity-battery-wholesalers.html | 17:28 |
| cehteh | hehe .. want a 100's pack | 17:28 |
| red | so it would begin at 4am instead of being full at around 1am and keep discharging thru night :p | 17:28 |
| red | AND | 17:28 |
| red | ffs, gimme an alarm clock where I can't shut it off with random finger on screen | 17:29 |
| red | swipe to deactivate :) | 17:29 |
| X-Fade | red: turn device upside down. | 17:29 |
| lcuk | red, math puzzles | 17:29 |
| lcuk | or something similar | 17:29 |
| red | X-Fade: it's not enough | 17:30 |
| nid0 | gimme an alarm clock I can change the monstrously annoying tune for :( | 17:30 |
| red | I already set 3 alarms per morning and just two days ago I slept too late again | 17:30 |
| lcuk | lol | 17:30 |
| cehteh | mhm maybe i should really buy such a cheap battery for home use and use the original when being on the road | 17:30 |
| red | google alcometer for phone alarm | 17:30 |
| lcuk | red, i have 3 alarm clocks | 17:30 |
| X-Fade | red: Don't put it next to your bed then. | 17:30 |
| hrw | nid0: maemo5 one is not enough? | 17:31 |
| red | only place I can charge it in my bedroom is bedsid sadly | 17:31 |
| lcuk | nid0, you can change the tone | 17:31 |
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| lcuk | one of mine plays James: ring the bells | 17:31 |
| lcuk | the other is the default | 17:31 |
| lcuk | red, do you set the alarms every morning, or have you a recurring one | 17:32 |
| lcuk | night ^ | 17:32 |
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| nid0 | ah handy, somehow id missed that option to set the tone when I last looked. no easy way to disable the vibrate though :( | 17:33 |
| lcuk | the vibrate is useful | 17:33 |
| lcuk | i have been woken in the past by the virbate from it being in another room | 17:34 |
| nid0 | the vibrate's far too powerful/piercing for me though, I hate waking up abruptly and the damn vibrate on the alarm does exactly that before the tone even starts playing | 17:34 |
| red | lcuk: I set them every night since my time to wake up differs 1-2 hours daily | 17:34 |
| lcuk | red how curious | 17:34 |
| red | and my gf confirmed that she heard em ring and saw me shut them off and thought i was just snoozing :) | 17:34 |
| lcuk | luckily tho it remembers all times | 17:34 |
| red | i have no recollection ^ | 17:34 |
| lcuk | and you just tick them | 17:34 |
| cehteh | nid0: you can configure it | 17:35 |
| lcuk | red thats a reasonable suggestion | 17:35 |
| cehteh | /etc/mce/mce.ini | 17:35 |
| nid0 | a method of doing so through the ui would be handy though, iv had a play with mce but havent found any confirmation on how to disable it entirely | 17:35 |
| red | what is a reasonable suggestion? | 17:35 |
| red | the swipe to deactivate? | 17:35 |
| nid0 | id just comment the line out but for all I know thatll brick the thing if it expects the value to be there | 17:35 |
| red | i think its quite a must :) | 17:35 |
| cehteh | just remove it from the list | 17:35 |
| red | older nokia touch screen phones had it too | 17:36 |
| cehteh | i disabled vibration for incoming emails completely | 17:36 |
| lcuk | red, yeah - i have to swuint when i want to snooze it too | 17:36 |
| nid0 | ah handy to know they are fully removable then | 17:36 |
| lcuk | to make sure i dont accidentally the whole thing | 17:36 |
| cehteh | well and some gui config app for mce would be nice | 17:36 |
| lcuk | squint | 17:36 |
| red | agree | 17:36 |
| red | I'd actually like the idea of turning the phone upside down to go into snooze -- and swipe to deactivate alarm. | 17:37 |
| lcuk | too easy to miss | 17:37 |
| lcuk | if the cats knock my phone off in the night | 17:37 |
| red | If the phone is face down, then turning it the correct way around would put another snooze | 17:37 |
| lcuk | it might be facedown | 17:37 |
| red | it would start ringing no matter the position, but turning it on the opposite side while alarm plays would activate snooze | 17:37 |
| nid0 | well, could easily work on turning it over, not having it facedown specifically | 17:37 |
| jacekowski | to be honest - the best idea of deactivate would be something requiring to read what it wants to do | 17:37 |
| red | true though | 17:38 |
| red | like the google e-mail alcometer :) | 17:38 |
| lcuk | red so you pick it up to check whether its the one you HAVE to get up at | 17:38 |
| red | simple mathematical calculation | 17:38 |
| jacekowski | because otherwise you will just start sleeping again | 17:38 |
| lcuk | and alarm disables | 17:38 |
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| Stskeeps | lo javispedro | 17:38 |
| red | lcuk: you understood wrong, lemme rephrase | 17:38 |
| javispedro | moo | 17:38 |
| lcuk | hi javispedro | 17:38 |
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| lcuk | jacekowski, lol i read lots of things whilst sleeping | 17:39 |
| lcuk | missus said i talk about code :$ | 17:39 |
| red | lcuk: Turning the phone 180 degrees would stop the alarm and activate snooze. To DISABLE the alarm you'd have to swipe the screen. | 17:39 |
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| lcuk | red but sometimes i just want to see if its the one where i can snooze it, or put up with its noise for another couple of minutes | 17:39 |
| jacekowski | lcuk: but reading something and acting on it will require you to wake up properly | 17:39 |
| lcuk | jacekowski, nahhh | 17:39 |
| red | Ha :) oh well | 17:39 |
| red | they could be preferences. | 17:39 |
| lcuk | best alarm ever is when tracy whispers in my ear "why is your computer making an odd noise" | 17:40 |
| red | Just saying I'd be happier any way -- if only shutting the alarm off wasn't this easy. | 17:40 |
| jacekowski | show us naked photo of her | 17:40 |
| lcuk | just a minute | 17:40 |
| cehteh | http://www.geekalerts.com/flying-helicopter-alarm-clock/ ... | 17:40 |
| Guest_55926 | hello | 17:41 |
| Guest_55926 | anyone at home?? | 17:41 |
| ifreq | yeh just arrived @home | 17:41 |
| javispedro | wazd: ping | 17:41 |
| Guest_55926 | why all you guys only use boring b & w fonts??? | 17:42 |
| crashanddie | Guest_55926: because if you use colours you'll be banned faster than you can imagine? | 17:42 |
| red | rofl at that helicopter | 17:42 |
| Guest_55926 | is there any reason for this | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | Guest_55926: because colors make kittens cry | 17:42 |
| Guest_55926 | i see | 17:42 |
| red | because colors are for hilights and channel modes :) | 17:42 |
| nid0 | colors + irc = reason for punching faces via tcp/ip to exist | 17:42 |
| * Myrtti kisses mode +c | 17:43 | |
| red | mode +C ftw :) | 17:43 |
| red | c* | 17:43 |
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| crashanddie | anyone want to see purty colours? | 17:43 |
| sivang | so any news on phone switcher for Maemo ? :) | 17:43 |
| crashanddie | /mode -c? | 17:43 |
| Guest_55926 | crashanddie yes | 17:43 |
| red | nooes | 17:43 |
| Guest_55926 | can you see mine @ crashanddie | 17:43 |
| Myrtti | crashanddie: we've got enough trolls already | 17:43 |
| sivang | if not, what owuld be required to port it from symbian ? | 17:44 |
| lcuk | jacekowski, its an old one, and a bit blurry but shes showing off her stuff, you can see right inside http://liqbase.net/DSCF0004.JPG | 17:44 |
| sivang | I am willing to do the work if I can get the source. | 17:44 |
| crashanddie | Guest_55926: how about you get on topic, and stop discussing colours? | 17:44 |
| sivang | lcuk: ohhh nice | 17:44 |
| crashanddie | Guest_55926: please don't PM me | 17:44 |
| Myrtti | sivang: source of what? | 17:44 |
| Myrtti | oh | 17:45 |
| Myrtti | source of phone switcher? OLOLOLOLOL | 17:45 |
| Myrtti | *cough* | 17:45 |
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| Myrtti | more brandy | 17:45 |
| sivang | Myrtti: yeah | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: what's a phone switcher? :P | 17:45 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: something that takes all your stuff from another phone and merges it in an intelligent way to the new one. | 17:45 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: very cool gizmo to work with 2 or n Symbianish boxes | 17:45 |
| * Myrtti has heard of this new thing called syncml | 17:45 | |
| Guest_55926 | [crashanddie] | 17:46 |
| sivang | syncml ? | 17:46 |
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| Guest_55926 | :) | 17:46 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 17:46 | |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: -b *!*jansimon@*.dip.t-dialin.net$##fix_your_connection | 17:46 | |
| sivang | Myrtti: I prefer silva palinka | 17:46 |
| doubleukay | lcuk: did you gut the computer on the left for its optical drives? ;) | 17:46 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 17:46 | |
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| Guest_55926 | ACTION hey u forgot me lol | 17:46 |
| crashanddie | anyone have any objections for the removal? | 17:47 |
| lcuk | doubleukay, that was ancient actually, afaik i had to do a double bypass operation for its FLOPPY drive! | 17:47 |
| Guest_55926 | no | 17:47 |
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| Guest_55926 | is ok by me too :) | 17:47 |
| crashanddie | fair enough, if you're asking for it | 17:47 |
| *** Guest_55926 has left #maemo | 17:47 | |
| sivang | hahah | 17:47 |
| sivang | this time he saw it coming | 17:47 |
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| Myrtti | awwww | 17:48 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 17:48 | |
| Guest_55926 | lol | 17:48 |
| Myrtti | fail | 17:48 |
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| pupnik_ | 14720themes | 17:48 |
| sivang | ban them and that's it | 17:48 |
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| *** crashanddie sets mode: +b *!*~Guest_55@*.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com | 17:48 | |
| Guest_55926 | he heee | 17:48 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: go for it. | 17:48 |
| Guest_55926 | lol | 17:48 |
| pupnik_ | 1128tutorial-applet | 17:48 |
| *** Guest_55926 was kicked by crashanddie (goobye) | 17:48 | |
| *** Guest_55926 has joined #maemo | 17:48 | |
| crashanddie | wtf | 17:48 |
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| *** crashanddie sets mode: +b Guest_55926!*@* | 17:48 | |
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| Myrtti | crashanddie: what client are you using? | 17:49 |
| crashanddie | a fail client | 17:49 |
| villager | crashanddie: your first ban said 55 instead of 559.... | 17:49 |
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| Myrtti | crashanddie: xchat, irssi? | 17:49 |
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| crashanddie | no colloquy | 17:50 |
| crashanddie | but I'm about to change | 17:50 |
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| Myrtti | right, failclient then | 17:50 |
| crashanddie | will take care of it tomorrow | 17:50 |
| sivang | nbody ever uses IRSSI anymore ? | 17:50 |
| crashanddie | Myrtti: it works for just talking, not channel management | 17:50 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: Isn't it tomorrow already there? :) | 17:50 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: well, 2AM, yeah | 17:50 |
| * lcuk giggles @ lbt | 17:50 | |
| crashanddie | anyway, cyas | 17:50 |
| X-Fade | later. | 17:51 |
| Myrtti | crashanddie: your slip is showing though | 17:51 |
| Myrtti | crashanddie: are you going to leave it like that? | 17:51 |
| X-Fade | drop the ops though ;) | 17:51 |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: -b *!*~Guest_55@*.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com | 17:51 | |
| crashanddie | yeah, I'll disconnect in a second, later | 17:51 |
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| Myrtti | sivang: have used since 2002 and see no reason to use others | 17:53 |
| X-Fade | sivang: irrsi works fine for me. | 17:53 |
| Myrtti | I should update the themes I've got at irssi/themes | 17:54 |
| pupnik_ | Nokia-N900-51-1:~# mv /usr/share/tutorial-applet/ /opt/ && ln -s /opt/tutorial-applet /usr/share/tutorial-applet | 17:54 |
| pupnik_ | Myrtti: add espeak support to irssi | 17:54 |
| Myrtti | pupnik_: sorry, I do only themes and alias packs | 17:54 |
| pupnik_ | boo :) | 17:55 |
| ptl | sivang: I use it | 17:55 |
| javispedro | moo pupnik | 17:55 |
| pupnik_ | moo | 17:55 |
| lcuk | pupnik, have a look at this: http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime | 17:55 |
| pupnik_ | lcuk: away from pc - you are working on a list of things that can be safely moved? | 17:57 |
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| javispedro | seems so. | 17:58 |
| lcuk | yes, and an extra par of eyes on things might be good | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | excellent, the DRM thread is turning into a GPLv3 discussion | 17:58 |
| lcuk | that project is just first test | 17:58 |
| lcuk | ive got it on my machines :) | 17:58 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: wonderful ;-) | 17:58 |
| lcuk | conf file has a list | 17:58 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/blobs/master/maemo-optify-boottime.conf | 17:58 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: zealots about that I can go and laugh about? | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | Myrtti: not yet, but i'm preparing popcorn | 17:58 |
| * Myrtti brings the booze | 17:58 | |
| pupnik_ | i cannot safely test due to cracked usb connector | 17:58 |
| javispedro | I would just gzip some stuff into the ubifs that after a reflash would be expanded to /opt | 17:59 |
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| hrw | lcuk: idea is nice - how much space you got? | 17:59 |
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| javispedro | cracked usb connector :S | 18:00 |
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| javispedro | well, mine's now without a functional left speaker and with the keyboard slighlty cracked. I can't really say it's a well-built device. | 18:01 |
| lcuk | hrw quite a lot i think that gained me about 25mb, it was a few weeks ago and ive had lots in head since, mvo has started looking at a similar method for the default optify | 18:01 |
| pupnik_ | howd you break the keyboard? | 18:01 |
| javispedro | pupnik: I didn't. A Nokia care employee did :( | 18:01 |
| hrw | lcuk: add /var/cache/apt/ and /var/lib/apt/ to the list | 18:01 |
| hrw | lcuk: /var/lib/apt/ is 25MB here | 18:02 |
| sivang | cool, so is it only for maemo or is it croos platform symbian/linux ? | 18:02 |
| sivang | (syncml) | 18:02 |
| hrw | but I have it on /home/user/MyDocs/.apt/var-lib-apt/ | 18:02 |
| lcuk | i think those are catered for themselves, or should be. hrw the idea is its kinda configured at the moment for investigation | 18:02 |
| lcuk | theres a load more folkders that could potentially be done | 18:03 |
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| X-Fade | hrw: That will help in space, but also slow it down a bit. | 18:03 |
| hrw | X-Fade: how often you install apps? | 18:03 |
| X-Fade | hrw: Well, I'm a special case ;) But just saying. | 18:04 |
| hrw | sure | 18:04 |
| javispedro | btw X-Fade, did you look at http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/diablo_extras_free_armel/openttd-data/0.7.4-1maemo2/ ? | 18:04 |
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| javispedro | I don't know why it thinks maemo-installer-utils is missing :S | 18:05 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Can you point me to the package which should provide it? | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: (slow down) are there any semi-official resilts on speed difference between NAND and eMMC? | 18:05 |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: Yes | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: any pointer to toss over?= | 18:05 |
| javispedro | X-Fade: | 18:06 |
| javispedro | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/diablo_sdk_free_armel/hildon-application-manager/2.1.19/ | 18:06 |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: That and it reads from compressed fs vs noncompressed. | 18:06 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: on tmo someone ran bonnie++ | 18:06 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: compressed vs non-compressed may give more difference. | 18:06 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: As these repo files compress quite well. | 18:07 |
| javispedro | X-Fade: agreed | 18:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: hmm maybe that's sufficient for google. thanks | 18:07 |
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| wazd | javispedro: PONG | 18:07 |
| wazd | caps :( | 18:08 |
| javispedro | wazd: (reading logs) vulture's eye for diablo should install to internal card (/media/mmc2) by default | 18:08 |
| pupnik_ | X-Fade: any hope to speedup the apt-worker or reduce how often HAM calls it? | 18:08 |
| X-Fade | pupnik_: Don't look at me. | 18:08 |
| wazd | javispedro: well, it says that it's out of the memory :( | 18:08 |
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| javispedro | wazd: ouch. Can you install it frm apt-get? Maybe this is the app mgr free space check. | 18:09 |
| wazd | javispedro: no, actually it starts installation and then cancels it | 18:10 |
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| hrw | bye all | 18:13 |
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| wizkoder | hy everybody | 18:13 |
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| wizkoder | Just got the graphical "hello world" running. I am happy :-) | 18:13 |
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| * sivang high fives wizkoder | 18:15 | |
| sivang | wizkoder: GTK / py ? | 18:15 |
| wizkoder | Yes, the gtk one | 18:15 |
| wizkoder | c++ | 18:16 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: provides is stored correctly, need to find out why it isn't found/used. | 18:16 |
| wizkoder | Heard its a pain in the ass to deplay python based programs | 18:16 |
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| wizkoder | deploy | 18:16 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: I can file a bug if you want to leave it for later | 18:17 |
| javispedro | X-Fade: fwiw, the dependency is also a Pre-Dependency. (as suggested by the packaging guide!) | 18:17 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Yeah, please do so. It seems to be bug I need to trace, not an easy fix. | 18:17 |
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| pupnik_ | bbl | 18:18 |
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| javispedro | wazd: I've just installed it on my recently-reflashed N810 and it installs to /media/mmc2 (no symlinks; the package unpacks directly to the card) -- on / it just puts a 2MiB binary. | 18:20 |
| javispedro | ouch, he's away | 18:20 |
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| mtnbkr | anyone know of any work being done on allowing different notification sounds depending on who the SMS (or IM) is from? I'd LOVE to know if the incoming SMS I am getting is from my monitoring server (and is important) or just a text from a friend without having to actually check | 18:27 |
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| mashiara | mtnkbr you could make a simple dbus listener in python that recognized your network monitoring messages (all sms/im/etc are handled via telepathy dbus) and plays awoogaawooga sounds | 18:29 |
| mashiara | in addition to the default notification... | 18:29 |
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| jacekowski | i've seen nagios thingy for n900 | 18:30 |
| X-Fade | mashiara: There is a nagios widget aswell. | 18:30 |
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| X-Fade | mtnbkr: ^^ | 18:30 |
| jacekowski | so it contacts nagios on server and gets all important informations out of it | 18:31 |
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| RST38h | 1 | 18:34 |
| mtnbkr | mashiara: Hmmm... Not a python programmer :( Maybe I can get my programmer friend to step away from ruby long enough to code something for my N900 in python. :) | 18:34 |
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| RST38h | Kobo Deluxe is in Extras... YEAAAAH! | 18:35 |
| mashiara | also if your network monitoring is nagios (or nagios based, many are) see Xfades comment | 18:35 |
| Corsac | what's kobo deluxe? | 18:35 |
| mtnbkr | jacekowski: I am using Xymon (used to be hobbit) and I am currently just sending customized emals alerts from a script to myphonenumber@txt.att.net (or whatever that address is) | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | an addictive game | 18:35 |
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| RST38h | Corsac: open source version of Bosconian | 18:36 |
| dl9pf | crashanddie: whats the issue ? | 18:36 |
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| mashiara | mtnbkr: python is easy if you have any idea of how to program OO languages | 18:38 |
| Corsac | RST38h: I don't know bosconian either, tbh :) | 18:39 |
| villager | python can also be used as a procedural language, if you don't like OO... but that might lose some of its power | 18:40 |
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| mtnbkr | mashiara: Time is my main issue. last "programming" I ever did was Turbo ascal in '89-'90 thn a little C++, and now just bash shell scritps etc. :) | 18:40 |
| RST38h | Corsac: google. | 18:40 |
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| vanadismobile | hai | 18:41 |
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| vanadismobile | is there any application like dataplan monitor, just for wlan? | 18:42 |
| mashiara | mtnbkr: well starting with python is easy too :) the DBUS itself is rather simple and I would suppose telepathy has better documentation than IcD2 (for which I basically had to reverse engineer the working way to achieve certain things) | 18:42 |
| mashiara | IcD2 = Internet-connection Daemon (version 2) | 18:43 |
| villager | you're supposed to use python-conic to access icd2 | 18:43 |
| mashiara | maybe | 18:43 |
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| villager | of course I didn't because python-conic didn't actually work, maybe they've fixed it though | 18:43 |
| mashiara | old habits dies hard | 18:43 |
| mashiara | used icd1 via dbus too (on n770,n8x0) | 18:44 |
| villager | I just looked at the libconic sources to figure out what to do though | 18:44 |
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| mashiara | also the dbus approach works, after you figure out that the documentation is subtly wrong in a few places | 18:45 |
| mashiara | and the interface in general has weird C-isms in it | 18:45 |
| mashiara | passing connection names as ByteArrays, null-terminitated even | 18:46 |
| mashiara | WTF is wrong with dbus.String ? | 18:46 |
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| RST38h | Is extras-development screwed up again? | 18:49 |
| ShadowJK | isn't it always? | 18:49 |
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| RST38h | Well, it has got its good days and bad days | 18:49 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: What's up? | 18:49 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: like always, fails to refresh index | 18:49 |
| * RST38h will get the exact message in a moment | 18:50 | |
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| X-Fade | RST38h: I don't see a problem? | 18:51 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: It got scared of you and refreshed properly this time =) | 18:51 |
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| RST38h | Are you wearing a screwdriver in your pocket? =) | 18:52 |
| Toba_ | or are you just happy to see me | 18:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: nah, that's me ;-) | 18:53 |
| RST38h | hmmm... kobo does not start with an icon | 18:55 |
| RST38h | and it seems to hang from the command line =( | 18:56 |
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| Shapeshifter | how can I copy text in x-terminal and then paste it in vim? without middleclick or shift-insert Im clueless | 19:09 |
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| mgedmin | Shapeshifter, try "+p or "*p in vim | 19:11 |
| X-Fade | Shapeshifter: click on arrow icon, select text, click on top to copy and later paste? | 19:11 |
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| Milo- | ggvGd | 19:11 |
| Shapeshifter | ah i didnt know about the top menu, thanks | 19:12 |
| inz | Milo, feeling helpful?-) | 19:12 |
| inz | Milo, :0dG is of course the real vi way | 19:13 |
| Milo- | heh | 19:13 |
| Milo- | true | 19:13 |
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| inz | Erm, :0 of course requires enter | 19:13 |
| Milo- | true | 19:13 |
| satmd | :0 :) | 19:13 |
| Milo- | hmm | 19:13 |
| Milo- | ggdG should be enough | 19:13 |
| inz | Yeah, but gg is vim specific ;) | 19:14 |
| Milo- | but you might have to do ggdG$ | 19:14 |
| Milo- | erm | 19:14 |
| Milo- | nvm | 19:14 |
| Milo- | vi is weak | 19:14 |
| Milo- | vim is nice | 19:14 |
| Milo- | I am hopeless with vi | 19:15 |
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| inz | Milo, so you're weak, no vi ;) | 19:15 |
| inz | +t | 19:15 |
| Milo- | heh | 19:16 |
| inz | I actually suck with vi too, but I think that spending some (quality ;) time with vi would make one more efficient | 19:16 |
| Milo- | I was introduced to vim before vi, so I learnt to use vim | 19:16 |
| inz | In vim it's too easy to use inefficient things ;) | 19:16 |
| lbt | vim is a kind of poisonous bleach liquid here in the UK... | 19:17 |
| Milo- | the host which I used had alias vi="vim" | 19:17 |
| lbt | sounds reasonable | 19:17 |
| Myrtti | lbt: not cif? | 19:17 |
| w00t | lbt: how dare you | 19:17 |
| lbt | my undersink cupboard is quite old :D | 19:17 |
| derf | I think if you run vim as vi, it starts vim in vi-compatibility mode. | 19:17 |
| w00t | nobody insults my vim, and lives | 19:17 |
| * lbt never logs in as nobody | 19:18 | |
| lbt | but he might now :) | 19:18 |
| RST38h | pico! | 19:19 |
| ifreq | :/ | 19:19 |
| lbt | RST38h: never mind, size isn't supposed to matter | 19:19 |
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| * lbt looks at his rather splendid emacs and smirks | 19:19 | |
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| nez | sup #maemo | 19:20 |
| ifreq | sky | 19:20 |
| lbt | nez: just emacs vs vi again | 19:20 |
| RST38h | emacs is dangerous | 19:20 |
| lbt | so is gcc | 19:21 |
| nez | vi is the one true editor (TM) | 19:21 |
| RST38h | it uses AI language and may change your code while you are not watching | 19:21 |
| ifreq | there shall be no else | 19:21 |
| lbt | RST38h: for the better | 19:21 |
| RST38h | nez: you mean, ed does not satisfy you? | 19:21 |
| derf | Impossible. RST38h's code is perfect. | 19:21 |
| lbt | emacs is running in the bg | 19:21 |
| tripzero | ed is the defacto editor | 19:22 |
| lbt | QED | 19:22 |
| tripzero | period | 19:22 |
| RST38h | at least, it is better than some weird ai can ever make it =0 | 19:22 |
| nez | actually I think we can all agree that nano is better than all other editors </sarcasm> | 19:22 |
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| derf | I've never actually read any of your code. | 19:22 |
| nez | RST38h: I prefer to just cat my code directly into the compiler | 19:22 |
| * RST38h agrees with nez | 19:22 | |
| mgedmin | for values of "all other editors" being equal to "pico" | 19:22 |
| derf | Or joe. | 19:22 |
| RST38h | nano is even better than pico! | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | or notepad | 19:22 |
| lbt | damn mgedmin beat me | 19:22 |
| tripzero | real mean edit by physically manipulating the heads on the magnetic storage drive. only girls use editors | 19:22 |
| RST38h | joe is weird. tried using it but never could get used to it | 19:23 |
| nez | notepad doesn't even interpret the unix linebreaks | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | tripzero, oh no, you set up the scene for the emacs camp to pull out M-x butterfly again! | 19:23 |
| villager | I use joe | 19:23 |
| tripzero | hahaa | 19:23 |
| lbt | my emacs is already flapping | 19:23 |
| tripzero | villager, i use jo-mamma | 19:23 |
| * mgedmin wonders if there's anybody on this channel who hasn't seen http://xkcd.com/378/ yet | 19:23 | |
| villager | joe is probably easier to get used to if you've ever used that ancient ms-dos word processor, wordstar | 19:24 |
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| nez | c:\utils\editors\edit.com | 19:25 |
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| * mgedmin once wrote his own advanced MS-DOS text editor | 19:25 | |
| * mgedmin later discovered vim and never went back | 19:25 | |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: I am sure the first guy in that xkcd strip was continuing typing away in nano all that time =) | 19:27 |
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| nez | vim > vi | 19:28 |
| nez | [D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D | 19:28 |
| nez | sorry...my irc is being weird | 19:28 |
| mgedmin | is that what vi prints when you hold down the left arrow key? | 19:28 |
| nez | mgedmin: yeah | 19:28 |
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| nez | I wonder if there is an IRC plugin for emacs | 19:30 |
| Myrtti | erc | 19:30 |
| villager | I bet it is a favorite extreme sport to type your name into vi in command mode | 19:30 |
| lbt | of course | 19:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | boooring. | 19:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I just get 'an' | 19:30 |
| nez | SpeedEvil: is your name... ian? | 19:31 |
| frals | ~curse MMS | 19:31 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, MMS ! | 19:31 |
| nez | frals: not as bad as being a Window ME admin | 19:32 |
| nez | ~cmds | 19:32 |
| nez | ~help | 19:33 |
| nez | ~wtf | 19:33 |
| nez | ~wtf afaik | 19:33 |
| infobot | AFAIK: as far as I know | 19:33 |
| nez | infobot: sweet | 19:33 |
| infobot | methinks sweet is a great girl? | 19:33 |
| tripzero | infobot: lick | 19:34 |
| tripzero | like* | 19:34 |
| mgedmin | level 45 in kobodeluxe is hard... | 19:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | nez: indeed. | 19:37 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: can you start it from the app launcher? | 19:40 |
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| mgedmin | no, playing it on my laptop | 19:40 |
| RST38h | oh ok | 19:40 |
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| LuciusMare | hi, the xterm cant be set to width of "standard" 80, only to 79, is it known? | 19:40 |
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| Shapeshifter | can I get the gprs transfer counter numbers from the commandline? | 19:43 |
| cehteh | there is *some* api for that .. maybe dbus | 19:44 |
| mgedmin | Shapeshifter, you're right! I never noticed! | 19:44 |
| Shapeshifter | mhh | 19:44 |
| mgedmin | but if you shrink the font you can get e.g. 98 columns | 19:44 |
| mashiara | shepshifter "ifconfig grps0" ? | 19:45 |
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| mgedmin | ought to be enough for everybody | 19:45 |
| Shapeshifter | mashiara: nah, ifconfig doesnt provide the info | 19:45 |
| frals | Shapeshifter: theres a gconf key for that, dunno exact path thou | 19:46 |
| Shapeshifter | frals: thanks | 19:46 |
| frals | if you check the source of personal-data-monitor you should be able to find it | 19:46 |
| cehteh | Shapeshifter: there is this "Data Plan Monitor" app .. use the source luke | 19:46 |
| mashiara | you mean total or sesison counts ? | 19:46 |
| frals | or data plan monitor or what the name is ;) | 19:46 |
| Shapeshifter | mashiara: total for a month | 19:46 |
| * mashiara was thinking of the byte counts for the session... | 19:46 | |
| cehteh | yeah i dont know the exact name either | 19:46 |
| Shapeshifter | yeah ill look at the source | 19:46 |
| mashiara | /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/GPRS/gprs_rx_bytes | 19:47 |
| *** LinuxCode is now known as LinuxCat | 19:47 | |
| mashiara | /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/GPRS/gprs_tx_bytes | 19:47 |
| *** LinuxCat is now known as LinuxCode | 19:47 | |
| * mashiara has a full XML dump of his gconf tree always at hand | 19:48 | |
| mashiara | fastest way to locate key names if you have ideas of what to search for | 19:48 |
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| Shapeshifter | mashiara: thanks :) | 19:49 |
| mashiara | be aware though that I have no idea if/when these keys are reset | 19:49 |
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| RST38h | OMG, they did release Barbie the Computer Engineer | 19:54 |
| * RST38h will have nightmares now | 19:54 | |
| derf | Hahahaha. | 19:54 |
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| Lumpio- | Can I disable automatic mail fetching for a certain account? | 20:01 |
| Lumpio- | I have a few accounts for important mail and then some for less-than-important mail | 20:02 |
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| Lumpio- | I'd like to get notifications for the important mail, but having my phone go off everytime someone posts on a mailing list is a bit excessive | 20:02 |
| pupnik_ | multiple accounts dude | 20:03 |
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| Lumpio- | ...I have multiple accounts | 20:04 |
| Lumpio- | But I can't really find a way to configure notification/fetch settings separately for each account | 20:04 |
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| Lumpio- | At least from the GUI, is it hidden away in some file? The documentation for the built-in apps tends to be somewhat scarce | 20:05 |
| Shapeshifter | funny, dbus-send --help doesn't work | 20:06 |
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| pupnik_ | Lumpio-: send bugreports to a webmail then | 20:16 |
| Lumpio- | So... I guess there's no way to use the built-in mail stuff with this | 20:17 |
| Lumpio- | Luckily my not-so-important account is gmail, so I guess I could use the browser for it | 20:17 |
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| sandman | Shapeshifter: but man dbus-send works? | 20:27 |
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| moo__ | nice someone seems to be working on quassel port. | 20:31 |
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| * GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk @ Joiku. | 20:48 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | All these damn Symbian developers. | 20:50 |
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| RST38h | What about them? Refuse to die? | 20:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, they keep opening their own damn repos. | 20:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's the bad old days all over again. | 20:56 |
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| pupnik_ | repos? repos? tar xzvf! | 21:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, I expect we'll be needing to revive that wiki page. . . . | 21:08 |
| MohammadAG | is there any way to make a .deb file that copies certain files to /opt/<dir>? | 21:12 |
| RST38h | General: Well, the Extras promotions are still kafkian hell, so I cannot blame them | 21:12 |
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| * RST38h finally found how to configure snap-to-grid feature in hildon desktop | 21:14 | |
| RST38h | The step of 10 pixels seems to work the best (default is 4) | 21:14 |
| mashiara | MohammedAG: sure, do it in postinstall | 21:14 |
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| dracflamloc | RST38h, how? | 21:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, they didn't even attempt, it. | 21:27 |
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| mashiara | of course it still is very much beta and can cause device reboots etc | 21:28 |
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| mashiara | but (as I noted in the thread) doesn't extras require source packages ? | 21:29 |
| mashiara | for not using Ovi they have no excuse once the thing is stable enough to pass QA | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | mashiara, only free. | 21:29 |
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| mashiara | ah ok, for some reason I was under the mistaken impression that extras would be the "hippie haven" and binary-only needs to go through Ovi | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | nah, we have non-free | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | We'd just be shooting ourselves in the foot since Ovi charges crazy fees for distribution | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | besides, Ovi is a very recent invention | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Extras has been around since the 770. | 21:31 |
| mashiara | True | 21:31 |
| RST38h | General: Dont forget Maemo Select too | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, that's not actually a repository. | 21:32 |
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| ShadowJK | New users generally use maemo.org and don't know about extras :/ | 21:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, it's enabled out of the box. | 21:33 |
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| mashiara | Also maemo.org has these nice big green buttons pointing to the .install files | 21:34 |
| RST38h | Hmm...once in a while, Gizmodo publishes something useful | 21:34 |
| RST38h | General: Yea, but a distribution channel still | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it's a web portal. | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Weird, Darwinia is on 360 Arcade. | 21:35 |
| RST38h | General: So is Downloads :) | 21:35 |
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| RST38h | And...well...Ovi too :) | 21:35 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, which works if they know about app manager :) | 21:35 |
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| ShadowJK | Maemo Select has its place | 21:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, Ovi is a repository. | 21:36 |
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| medo | anyone here know anything aout a video calling app? | 21:40 |
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| ptl | does anyone know what file do I edit in busybox for setting up shell environment variables? like .bashrc in bash | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | .profile? | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:55 |
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| dracflamloc | RST38h, how did you get the snap to grid configured? | 21:58 |
| RST38h | there is an ini file | 21:59 |
| ptl | Stskeeps: I tried .profile and it worked, but I'd prefer something like .ashrc... anyway there is a directory .profiled that has some stuff in it, like custom.ini, do you know what they're for? they're full of #'s | 22:00 |
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| Stskeeps | ptl: see how busybox does it.. but .profile is a good bet | 22:00 |
| ptl | yes, .profile worked | 22:01 |
| ptl | I googled it... | 22:01 |
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| ptl | now let's install QuakeIII... | 22:04 |
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| MohammadAG | what's the best site for uploads? | 22:05 |
| MohammadAG | Wanted to upload the modified source for an app | 22:05 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: YouTube! =) | 22:11 |
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| Ced_ | !list | 22:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.peroxidepropulsion.com/ | 22:19 |
| SpeedEvil | ops | 22:19 |
| SpeedEvil | oops | 22:19 |
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| hcarrega | ? | 22:39 |
| hardaker | ! | 22:40 |
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| jophish | ¿ | 22:41 |
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| hcarrega | :) | 22:42 |
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| pwnguin | ok, so here's a fun problem | 22:47 |
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| pwnguin | i recorded things with recaller | 22:48 |
| pwnguin | but they're too quiet | 22:48 |
| pwnguin | it stores in .aac and i cant for the life of me get any linux tools to handle it properly | 22:49 |
| ptl | what do you mean by too quiet? | 22:49 |
| ptl | oh | 22:49 |
| ptl | lol | 22:49 |
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| pwnguin | its quiet. i can hear the speaker barely | 22:49 |
| ptl | I'll try it myself sometime | 22:50 |
| pwnguin | well this was an adhoc unintended use | 22:50 |
| pwnguin | someone was giving a LUG lecture | 22:51 |
| pwnguin | so i wanted to audio record it. | 22:51 |
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| ptl | but isn't it meant to record phone conversations? | 22:51 |
| ptl | or is it a general audio recorder? | 22:51 |
| pwnguin | it just records what's on th emic | 22:51 |
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| ptl | ok | 22:52 |
| pwnguin | and other stuff probably | 22:52 |
| ptl | but that said, it will not record the other people talking? | 22:52 |
| pwnguin | im sure it records the remote party if you have one | 22:52 |
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| satmd | the terminal should allow "alsamixer -c0" | 22:54 |
| pupnik_ | government is the bigmouth idiots from your high-school student council | 22:54 |
| satmd | you can control volumes there (more detailed as on the gui) | 22:54 |
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| bigon | Hi, | 22:56 |
| bigon | I've a bug to report against libcurl | 22:57 |
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| bigon | wich component is that? | 22:57 |
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| mashiara | bigon in maemo bugzilla ? | 22:59 |
| bigon | yes | 23:00 |
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| ptl | libcurl? I use libcurl in my ubuntu | 23:00 |
| ptl | it's nice to program with it | 23:00 |
| mashiara | system software I would think | 23:00 |
| bigon | I've installed syncevolution on my n900 and it fails to connect because of the hostname of my server has AAAA records | 23:00 |
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| mashiara | however the good question is if libcurl is shipping with the maemo platform or not | 23:01 |
| mashiara | (it's likely that it is, but not impossible that it isn't) | 23:02 |
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| mashiara | and if it's not part of the default package then you should probably file the bug against syncevolution directly and ask that they link against a libcurl that has your bug fixed | 23:02 |
| satmd | I wonder if there's a workaround | 23:03 |
| satmd | waitasec | 23:03 |
| mashiara | if the latest libcurl itself still has this bug I recommend filing it upstream and then adding a maemo enhancement pointing to the upstream bug basically saying "when this is fixed please get it downstream asap" | 23:03 |
| bigon | mmm | 23:04 |
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| bigon | It will be for tomorrow then | 23:05 |
| mashiara | or you could ask the syncevolution guys for their opinion | 23:05 |
| bigon | does anybody know the guy how made the port? | 23:05 |
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| satmd | try adding ipv4 = 1 to ~/.curlrc | 23:06 |
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| hardaker | grrr.... scratchbox failing to compile against libraries already available. | 23:07 |
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| bigon | satmd: thx | 23:07 |
| bigon | but that still a bug :) | 23:07 |
| satmd | true | 23:08 |
| mashiara | though tuning the config should be easy in postinstall | 23:08 |
| * satmd prefers getting ipv6 because | 23:08 | |
| mashiara | http://maemo.org/profile/view/pohly/ -> http://www.estamos.de/ -> email address can be found | 23:08 |
| satmd | .. my guess is that curl was built with ipv6 support, but the adress family is not (yet?) supported on maemo | 23:09 |
| bigon | satmd: I would prefere Ipv6 support too :) | 23:09 |
| satmd | bigon: but since connectivity tools are not ready for this yet, that'll be a mid-term goal at best | 23:09 |
| satmd | at least to see it builtin | 23:10 |
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| bigon | satmd: so what should I do? contact syncevolution guys? | 23:10 |
| satmd | no, I'd rather blame the curl build itself | 23:11 |
| satmd | packaging/build mistake | 23:11 |
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| satmd | $ LANG=C LC_ALL=C curl http://www.kame.net/ -v | 23:13 |
| bigon | ipv4=1 in .curlrc doesn't seems to work | 23:13 |
| satmd | * Trying 2001:200:0:8002:203:47ff:fea5:3085... Network is unreachable | 23:13 |
| satmd | * Trying 203.178.141.194... connected | 23:13 |
| bigon | mmm | 23:13 |
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| bigon | I blamed curl because of http://www.mayrhofer.eu.org/Default.aspx?pageid=117 | 23:13 |
| satmd | that's the rfc defined behaviour on systems with correct stacks | 23:13 |
| satmd | can you retry my test above? | 23:14 |
| satmd | on the n900? | 23:14 |
| satmd | -n900+maemo | 23:14 |
| jacekowski | i've got problem with FM transmitter in N900 | 23:15 |
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| jacekowski | basicaly i have problem finding any free frequency in UK | 23:15 |
| bigon | mmm only the lib on my n900 not the exec | 23:15 |
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| satmd | :( | 23:16 |
| bigon | well and of course on scratchbox it work because Ive ipv6 connectivity | 23:19 |
| bigon | well it will be for tomorrow | 23:19 |
| satmd | syncevolution on the terminal... any messages of use? | 23:20 |
| bigon | the same than here http://www.mayrhofer.eu.org/Default.aspx?pageid=117 : "CurlTransport Failure: couldn't connect to host" | 23:20 |
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| bigon | I really need to go now | 23:21 |
| satmd | well, ok, see you later | 23:22 |
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| bigon | thx | 23:22 |
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| satmd | the site just confirms my assumptions | 23:23 |
| satmd | ipv6-build on non-ipv6 kernel | 23:24 |
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| ml-mobile | heh | 23:38 |
| ml-mobile | this is why I like how iTunes maintains a database of file paths and metadata | 23:39 |
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| * ml-mobile waits for the media player to settle down | 23:39 | |
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| frals | ~curse MMS | 23:44 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, MMS ! | 23:44 |
| dracflamloc | what formats for ringtones does the n900 support | 23:47 |
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| jacekowski | all of them | 23:47 |
| jacekowski | and if it doesn't then you can always write some code for it | 23:47 |
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| ShadowJK | it does not support "all of them" | 23:52 |
| dracflamloc | midi? | 23:52 |
| dracflamloc | mod? | 23:52 |
| dracflamloc | mp3? ogg? | 23:52 |
| dracflamloc | =P | 23:52 |
| ShadowJK | mp3 and possibly ogg | 23:52 |
| ShadowJK | no midi, no polyphonic | 23:52 |
| dracflamloc | hmmk | 23:52 |
| ShadowJK | no per-caller ringtones | 23:53 |
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| dracflamloc | eh i never used those | 23:59 |
| dracflamloc | but i do like midi ringtones | 23:59 |
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