IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-02-01

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wazdXisdibik: no, I think that's enough :) Thanks a lot00:00
redinz: and I take it there was no changing host quit message just before?00:00
wazdXisdibik: oh, opened statusbar :)00:00
inzred, no, just before was leaving message00:00
redgood, works like a charm then00:00
redSSL connection, cloaked hostname and autoidentifying working as expected ^^00:01
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inzI prefer vanity domain names over cloaks =)00:01
rednow those bastards in Sweden won't be reading what I'm jabbering in IRC, unless they are on the channel that is ;)00:01
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Xisdibikwazd: OK00:01
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Xisdibikwazd: http://imagebin.org/8275500:03
Xisdibikwazd: http://imagebin.org/8275600:04
Xisdibikwazd: http://imagebin.org/8275700:04
meceis there a good way to get dependencies from my list of imported modules in my python app?00:05
wazdXisdibik: great, that's enough :)00:05
Xisdibikhey wazd did you get that background from the Win 7 beta?00:05
wazdXisdibik: ta00:05
wazdXisdibik: mm, nope00:05
Xisdibiklooks really similar00:05
Xisdibikminus the fish00:06
* Stskeeps hides from wazd00:06
wazdXisdibik: well, it looks like underwater00:06
wazdXisdibik: :)00:06
Xisdibikah, and it is different, the one for win 7 was light coming from the top00:06
Xisdibik:)00:06
XisdibikI do like how the buttons/task bar etc look in the theme00:07
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StskeepsXisdibik: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/14/the-funny-thing/00:07
wazdXisdibik: good :)00:07
wazdStskeeps: :D00:07
Xisdibik:D00:08
Xisdibikthat was funny00:08
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Xisdibikkimitake: you still around?00:18
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meceanyone want to volunteer to test the dependencies on my comic widget?00:22
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Ken-Youngmece, You just wont someone to try to install it?00:24
meceKen-Young, yes :)00:24
Ken-YoungI'll bite.   Where can I find it?00:24
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meceKen-Young, https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=127600:24
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kimitakeXisdibik, yes00:26
meceKen-Young, there is one issue that I'm aware of. Well a couple, but one major one. It will become invisible after a reboot, so you have to remove it and add it again after that. FYI.00:27
Ken-Youngmece, Didn't install. It needs hildon-desktop-python-loader, and that is not installed on my N900.00:29
meceok, well that's in the dependencies.00:29
meceKen-Young, try, as root, apt-get install --fix-missing00:31
meceand see what happens00:31
Ken-Youngmece, OK00:31
* mece is a little excited to see what happens.00:32
derfkimitake: Would you take patches to enable skk as an alternative to anthy?00:32
Ken-YoungOK, I had to do an apt-get -f install, then the --fix-missing, but after that I could install your .drb .00:33
Xisdibikkimitake: have you used his scim, and did you get it working?00:33
meceKen-Young, does the program work then? That's the real question.00:34
kimitakederf: I'm not familiar with skk...00:34
Stskeepsrandom question, is your SCIM's usable without keyboard?00:34
Ken-Youngmece, I don't see a new menu item - how can I test it?00:34
kimitakeXisdibik, what do you mean his scim?00:35
meceKen-Young, it's a desktop widget00:35
derfkimitake: http://openlab.ring.gr.jp/skk/00:35
Xisdibikthe one you mentioned.   maemocjk's scrim ;)  guess its not really a him, but that one ;)00:35
Ken-Youngmece, I don't see a new widget on my desktop.00:35
meceKen-Young, and it's not in the add widget list?00:36
kimitakederf, it seems there is scim-skk, so him-scim could use skk also.00:36
Ken-Youngmece, Nope.00:36
derfkimitake: Right.00:36
meceKen-Young, right, actually, I think there is a problem with the python loader thingie.00:36
Ken-Youngmece, What exactly should the widget be called in the add widget list?00:37
meceKen-Young, after installing that, it might need a reboot of hildon-home (or the whole phone)- Either way, you can try the widget manually00:37
meceComic widget00:37
kimitakeXisdibik, some Japanese N900 user are using him-scim00:37
Ken-Youngmece, Sorry, it's not there.00:37
meceKen-Young you can run it like this: python /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/comic-widget.py00:37
wazdhttp://tabletui.wordpress.com/2010/02/01/marina-theme/00:38
Xisdibikkimitake: yea, ive tried them all,  after installing, how do you start it up. :/00:38
meceKen-Young, that will also give you some output and you'll see any python errors regarding missing modules.00:38
Ken-Youngmece, That does not work either.00:39
kimitakeXisdibik, I have been asked on my blog so I just added comment in English, but you him-scim is one of virtual keyboard, so you need to enable it00:39
meceKen-Young, what does it say?00:39
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Ken-Youngmece, arguments to dbus_connection_get_data() were incorrect, assertion "connection != NULL" failed in file dbus-connection.c line 5757.00:39
meceKen-Young, wow.00:39
meceKen-Young, nothing before that?00:40
Xisdibikkimitake: ahhh, its virtual.  that helps:).    so you cant use the normal keyboard to type romanji and have it convert to hiragana/katakana?00:40
Ken-Youngmece, That's the first error test.   After that is says: This is normally a bug in some application using the D-Bus library.00:40
Ken-Youngprocess 1757: arguments to dbus_connection_set_data() were incorrect, assertion "connection != NULL" failed in file dbus-connection.c line 5721.00:40
Ken-YoungThis is normally a bug in some application using the D-Bus library.00:40
Ken-YoungAborted00:40
fralsusually get that when you run something as root instead of user00:41
Ken-Youngs/test/text/00:41
meceKen-Young, ah. yes run as user.00:41
Ken-Youngmece, OK, I'll try that.00:41
kimitakeXisdibik, actually if you set GTK_IM_MODULE=scim on command line, you can use it directly.00:42
mecefrals, thanks for the info :)00:42
kimitakeXisdibik, but in this case, you cannot use default HIM anymore.00:42
Ken-Youngyes frals, thanks.   It works when run as user.00:42
meceoh.. works? as in you see a picture and everything?00:42
Ken-Youngmece, Yup.00:42
kimitakeXisdibik, so I have wrote him-scim (hildon input method plugin) and it just set the environment in it.00:43
meceKen-Young, well that's nice. Then the dependencies look to be ok.00:43
Ken-Youngmece, Got a comic displayed nicely.00:43
kimitakeXisdibik, so the GUI can use scim.00:43
meceKen-Young, ok. try clicking the star00:43
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Xisdibikkimitake: but for your HIM-scim, its set to just work the the Virtual KB?00:43
meceKen-Young, (should display a different comic, perhaps xkcd)00:44
Ken-Youngmece, Got an xkcd comic on the stuck rover when I clicked the star.00:44
meceKen-Young. well cool.00:44
kimitakeXisdibik, him-scim's one is temporary setting, so you still use the default HIM00:44
Ken-Youngmece, It looks nice!00:45
Xisdibikkimitake: maybe i dont know enough about how that all works to totally get what you mean :)00:45
meceKen-Young, it appears to be working. If you want to (you really don't have to) you could ctrl-c the app and remboot, and then try to add widget.00:45
meceKen-Young, thanks :)00:45
Ken-Youngmece, I'll give that a try - it's been nearly 20 minutes since my last reboot anyway.00:45
meceKen-Young, LOL00:46
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Ken-YoungDoes anyone know how to get rid of that insipid hand-clasp video that plays during reboots?00:46
kimitakeXisdibik, please check http://kimitakeblog.net/item/704#c170800:47
jebbaKen-Young: /etc/hildon-welcome.d/  and comment it out00:48
Ken-Youngjebba, Thanks!00:48
meceKen-Young, you can also delete the file (or move it to opt or MyDocs, to free up 1.5Mb of rootfs :)00:48
Ken-Youngmece, Sadly, it's still not in the add widget list after a reboot.00:48
meceKen-Young, dammit.00:49
meceKen-Young, I'll look into that.00:49
Ken-Youngmece, Nice widget though.00:49
meceKen-Young, just to be sure. Did you check if it's somewhere, invisible? It takes up space but you can't see it unless you enter the edit desktop mode.00:50
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Ken-Youngmece, I'm not sure I know ecactly what I should be looking for, but I want into edit mode on all desktops, and I don't see any sign of it.00:52
Ken-Youngs/ecactly/exactly/00:52
infobotKen-Young meant: mece, I'm not sure I know exactly what I should be looking for, but I want into edit mode on all desktops, and I don't see any sign of it.00:52
meceKen-Young, ok, it's not there then.00:52
meceKen-Young, you would see a [x] and a [wrench] icon in the would-be corners of the invisible widgets. Buttons that don't belong to any other widget.00:53
Ken-Youngmece, I didn't see anything like that.00:54
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yuizyit seems the usb port on my n900 is broken00:56
yuizyhave any of you had the same problem?00:56
fralsbroken how?00:56
yuizymy battery just ran out and there's no way to charge it now00:57
fralstried the wallcharger?00:57
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yuizyyes00:57
fralsright that means im out of ideas :P00:57
yuizyit must be physically broken00:57
pupnik___do you see a led liht if you wiggle gently?00:58
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pupnik___light00:58
meceKen-Young, thank you very much for the help, I'll see if I can find the problem with the widget not showing up in the list.00:58
yuizypupnik___: yes00:58
Stskeepsyuizy: production or summit?00:58
yuizyproduction00:58
Ken-Youngmece, My pleasure.00:58
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pupnik___yuizy: the place device so there is light pressure on the charging cable01:00
Stskeepsyuizy: send it in for warranty i'd say01:02
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jebbayuizy: i had this exact same thing happen to one. I'm sending it back (amazon)01:10
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Stskeepsevening jebba01:11
yuizy:E01:11
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yuizythis just sucks01:12
yuizymy mini-laptop has the same problem01:12
yuizyi can't charge it either01:12
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javispedrogreat01:32
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javispedrotransifex tried to overwrite a file on my repo...01:33
pillarmy package doesn't build with autobuilder, it's complaining about not having mce/mode-names.h and mce/dbus-names.h, which are used for the rotation, any ideas?01:33
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javispedrowouldn't you happen to know a way I could let people get the POT file _without_ adding it to the file filter? (So that nobody can try to overwrite it...)01:33
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puslinghmm.. how do I request 'current orientation' of the phone ?01:35
jebbahey Stskeeps :)01:37
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* lcuk hits javispedro on the head with a heavy instrument and takes him away to sekrit underground labs01:51
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meceKen-Young, ping01:53
Ken-Youngmece, pong01:53
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Ken-Youngmece, You rang?01:56
meceKen-Young, could you check which version of python-hildondesktop you have?01:56
Ken-Youngmece, How can I check that?01:56
meceumm.. how was it again01:57
mecedpkg -l python-hildondesktop01:57
mecethat's a small L01:57
mecelowercase L01:58
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Ken-Young0.1.0-1maemo201:58
meceKen-Young, agh--crap. I have the same one. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5232 says that the problem should have been fixed in 0.1.0-1maemo102:00
povbotBug 5232: Desktop Widget does not appear in "Add Widget" list02:00
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Xisdibikwazd: I see one issue with your Marina theme02:05
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wazdXisdibik: let me guess02:08
wazdXisdibik: gear? :)02:08
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Xisdibikwazd: gear? what gear?     in modest, the author/time are in blue,  which happens to be the color that new mail is supposed to be as well :P02:09
wazdXisdibik: can you make a screenshot?02:09
XisdibikI opened my email and was like woah howd all my mail become unread.. oh its not :P02:09
Xisdibikwell lemme test it a little first02:09
Xisdibikgonna send myself a mail and see how it looks02:09
Xisdibikah its ok wazd02:10
Xisdibikthe Subject shows in blue if its unread02:10
Xisdibikso i can distinguish between unread and red02:10
Xisdibikread*02:10
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PavelOn Ovi Maps on N900, is there a way to "bookmark" a location for future use?02:22
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javispedrooh02:27
javispedrodoes the palm pre have a snes emulator?02:27
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javispedrocause I just thought that my emu is basically sdl drpocketsnes, and could be a prime candidate to port to the "palm blessed" libsdl1.202:28
javispedro(thinking loudly since I'm playing with a friend's Pre...)02:29
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dmj726Is there any way to adjust the encoding settings for the video camera app?03:06
dmj726I find myself taking 2-6 GB of video a day.03:09
Ken-Youngdmj726, How long is that, in elapsed time?03:10
dmj726up to 3 hours03:10
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ShadowJKwow :)03:11
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dmj726I now have video of most of my lectures03:11
xorAxAxand how do you fixate the device while filming, dmj726?03:12
dmj726hold it in my left hand03:12
dmj726take notes with my right hand03:12
xorAxAxsounds stressing03:13
dmj726not really03:13
xorAxAxi guess i would be too lazy for that03:13
dmj726I just aim it in the general direction, not very professional looking but it's good enough to have the professor and what he's writing03:13
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derfSo is repository.maemo.org just broken?03:45
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user_hello03:52
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Ken-Younguser_, Hi03:54
user_anybody here?03:55
Ken-Younguser_, I am, many others are too.03:55
user_i see...kinda quiet03:55
Ken-Younguser_, It was much more active a couple of hours ago.03:56
user_ok03:56
Ken-Younguser_, I think this channel is often more active during evening hours in europe.03:56
user_yes true03:57
user_i am in Canada03:57
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RobertLevinsup03:58
user_hey03:58
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user_welcome03:59
RobertLevinwant my social security number03:59
jebbaBuild #7085 of 10,220.  Debs built: 465803:59
RobertLevinDelink the sacred server04:00
RobertLevinSodomize the holy channel04:00
RobertLevinDrink the red blood of the wife of lilo04:00
RobertLevinMasturbation on the dead body of freenode04:00
RobertLevinThe king of PDPC is dead04:00
RobertLevinand so are the lies04:00
RobertLevinVomit on the host of Wikipedos04:00
RobertLevinMasturbate on the throne of #ruby-lang04:00
RobertLevinBreak the seals of lilo's oper block04:00
RobertLevinDrink the sweet blood of #emacs04:00
RobertLevinTaste the open sores04:00
RobertLevinSodomize open source04:00
RobertLevinThe king of PDPC is an idiot04:00
RobertLevinThe IRC network will burn04:00
RobertLevinDelink the IRC server04:00
RobertLevinRob Levin is dead04:00
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RobertLevinRob's federal employer identification number is 74-303369704:00
RobertLevinThe address officially listed for pdpc is 10100 main street #31 houson tx04:00
RobertLevin77025.04:00
RobertLevinPhone number for pdpc officially listed is 713-589-5863.04:00
RobertLevinRob's ssn is 462 13 0351.04:00
RobertLevinPDPC's 11-digit texas state taxpayer number 3200451442104:00
RobertLevinRob's apartment is at 9212 BURDINE ST. #1005 HOUSTON, TX 77096.04:00
RobertLevin12-16-1955 is Rob's birthday04:00
*** word2007adobefla has joined #maemo04:01
word2007adobeflaThe Devil (Greek: diabolos = 'slanderer' or 'accuser'[1]) is believed in certain religions and cultures to be a powerful, supernatural entity that is the personification of evil and the enemy of God and humankind. The Devil is commonly associated with heretics, infidels, and other unbelievers. The Abrahamic religions have variously regarded the Devil as a rebellious fallen angel or demon...04:01
word2007adobefla...that tempts humans to sin or commit evil deeds. Others regard the Devil as an allegory that represents a crisis of faith, individualism, free will, wisdom and enlightenment.04:01
word2007adobeflaIn mainstream Christianity, God and the Devil are usually portrayed as fighting over the souls of humans, with the Devil seeking to lure people away from God and into Hell. The Devil commands a force of evil angels, commonly known as demons.[2] The Hebrew Bible (or Old Testament) describes the Adversary (Ha-satan) as an angel who instigates tests upon humankind.[3][4] Many other religions...04:01
word2007adobefla...have a trickster or tempter figure that is similar to the Devil. Modern conceptions of the Devil include the concept that it symbolizes humans' own lower nature or sinfulness.04:01
doc|homeword2007adobefla: run along now you little nutjob04:02
RobertLevinNIGGER04:03
RobertLevini run freenode04:03
doc|hometry again04:03
RobertLevini suck dick in a trailer04:03
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RobertLevini steal all your money from donations04:03
doc|homeyou're boring04:03
glassbuy a flood script or something04:03
RobertLevinPhone number for pdpc officially listed is 713-589-5863.04:04
RobertLevinRob's ssn is 462 13 0351.04:04
RobertLevinPDPC's 11-digit texas state taxpayer number 3200451442104:04
RobertLevinRob's apartment is at 9212 BURDINE ST. #1005 HOUSTON, TX 77096.04:04
RobertLevin12-16-1955 is Rob's birthday04:04
doc|homeyes yes, you've said that04:04
doc|homethis script... very boring ...04:04
b-man17someone needs to bas these people NOW :P04:04
b-man17*ban04:04
RobertLevinPhone number for pdpc officially listed is 713-589-5863.04:04
RobertLevinRob's ssn is 462 13 0351.04:04
RobertLevinPDPC's 11-digit texas state taxpayer number 3200451442104:04
RobertLevinRob's apartment is at 9212 BURDINE ST. #1005 HOUSTON, TX 77096.04:04
RobertLevin12-16-1955 is Rob's birthday04:04
RobertLevinPhone number for pdpc officially listed is 713-589-5863.04:04
RobertLevinRob's ssn is 462 13 0351.04:04
RobertLevinPDPC's 11-digit texas state taxpayer number 3200451442104:04
RobertLevinRob's apartment is at 9212 BURDINE ST. #1005 HOUSTON, TX 77096.04:04
RobertLevin12-16-1955 is Rob's birthday04:04
RobertLevinPhone number for pdpc officially listed is 713-589-5863.04:04
RobertLevinRob's ssn is 462 13 0351.04:04
RobertLevinPDPC's 11-digit texas state taxpayer number 3200451442104:04
RobertLevinRob's apartment is at 9212 BURDINE ST. #1005 HOUSTON, TX 77096.04:04
RobertLevin12-16-1955 is Rob's birthday04:04
RobertLevinPhone number for pdpc officially listed is 713-589-5863.04:04
RobertLevinRob's ssn is 462 13 0351.04:04
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* zash /ignore04:04
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doc|homethanks GeneralAntilles04:05
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b-man17thank you GeneralAntilles04:05
derfGlad not everyone's in Europe.04:05
zashGeneralAntilles: o704:05
sp3000yeah it'd get crowded04:05
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GeneralAntillesChrist this network is really going in the shitter.04:05
b-man17it seems so :P04:06
doc|homein fairness, the kind of half-wits have always been around04:06
doc|home*these04:06
b-man17i haven't seen this kind of spam ever on #maemo04:06
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, yeah, but it's particularly bad lately.04:06
* doc|home nods04:06
wazd07-12-1987 is wazd's birthday04:06
wazd:P04:06
GeneralAntillesDaily botspam, all sorts of prickery.04:07
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: I think some gnaa numpty's took a dislike to freenode04:07
GeneralAntillesdoc04:07
* doc|home looks aghast at that '04:07
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, seems like it.04:07
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odin_target the channels with the most users in them04:08
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GeneralAntillesStaff is a little touchy. . . .04:11
doc|homeI think the word you wanted there was sh... wait, are we allowed to swear here?04:11
GeneralAntillesFuck yeah!04:12
b-man17LOL04:12
doc|homethe word was ... shit!04:12
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b-man17hmm04:21
b-man17does anyone know how to right-click in emelfm2 in fremantle?04:21
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Xisdibikwe are allowed to swear here GeneralAntilles ???04:50
Xisdibikwhat about all the 12 yr olds with n900's here with innocent ears?04:50
dmj726you mean the ones with access to bullshit bingo?04:54
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user_12 year olds with N900s ? funny05:00
_andygtk is the worst.05:00
zash12 yo's with gtk, yeah05:01
user_what soft do you guys use to access irc on your n900s?05:01
zerojayXisdibik: Fuck yeah.05:01
zashuser_: when i get one i'll probably ssh to a screen session with irssi on my server05:02
Xisdibikuser_: Xchat05:02
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user_gotta try xchat05:02
Xisdibikwho here has seen in the games section in extras-devel the  "cutesquare" game05:02
Xisdibikwith the discription:  "Build squares with your stones"05:03
dmj726pidgin mostly05:03
user_xchat or irssi - what's better?05:04
zashuser_: the irssi+screen setup has the advantage that you never have to quit it, so you won't miss anything if you close the window on the client device05:07
zashuser_: and you can have the same session on multiple computers/devices05:07
zashaccess from05:07
zashbut it might be harder to setup and you need a shell somewhere05:07
user_i see05:08
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ErodI like irssi better on low resolution screens, such as the N900.05:08
shamusyah irssi is nice and low usage too05:09
user_really?05:09
shamuswell less gui05:09
shamusso probly les mem05:09
user_how do I make the font smaller in irssi?05:09
shamusxchat has a full gui05:09
shamusirssi is cli05:09
shamusi like cli05:09
zashuser_: you access it through the xterminal05:10
zashuser_: so, you change the font on the xterm05:10
user_ok, yes. sorry for noobish question05:10
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user_nice05:13
villagerGeneralAntilles: you mean freenode hasn't always been this bad? About a year ago I was *so* happy to be able leave freenode forever after I no longer was interested in the last channel I was on here... but then I recently bought a n900, and found maemo was here... argh05:13
* zash 's favorite store still says "New! Released in early 2010" on N900 :(05:15
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Kajkoxchat is nice too05:50
Kajkotrying xchat now05:50
shamusxchat is nice05:50
Kajkoyes05:51
shamusit's full blow very well layed out gui05:51
Kajkoyes05:51
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Kajkovery nice05:51
shamusaltho one dose tent to get use to irssi afre a wile05:51
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Kajkoirssi is nice too05:52
pupnikirssi gets more text onscreen too05:52
shamusyep05:52
shamusmore text less clutter05:52
Kajkoyes but in xchat you can scroll more easily05:53
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pupnikfn+uparrow pages up here05:54
shamuswhere is the pageup key?05:54
pupnikneed to edit keymap though05:54
shamuson the virtural keyboard on the n80005:54
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pupnikdunno05:54
Kajkoxchat has the scroll bar on the right05:55
shamusyep05:55
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zashcan you scroll by dragging in xchat?05:56
Kajkono, only by dragging the bar05:57
zashscrollbars, in 2010? ;)05:57
Kajkowell....it works05:58
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crashanddieyo06:02
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wazd_~ping06:10
pronto~pong06:10
wazd_heh06:11
wazd_I guess +R is off now06:11
shamuspoke06:11
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wazd_Moaning all06:12
DesertZarzamora_hi all06:12
DesertZarzamora_hi wazd_06:12
crashanddiewazd_: we never had +R06:13
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crashanddiewazd_: we only used it during bot attacks06:13
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wazd_Crashanddie: ah06:13
* DesertZarzamora_ wonders what +R means06:14
shamusirc thingy06:14
wazd_DesertZarzamora_: forced nick identification06:14
DesertZarzamora_oh06:14
shamusis the nick server even back up yet?06:14
crashanddieDesertZarzamora_: that only registered users can join the channel06:14
DesertZarzamora_thanks for the clarification crashanddie06:15
wazd_Crashanddie: not join, but write :)06:15
crashanddieshamus: yup, was never down06:15
DesertZarzamora_btw im looking for a volunteer for testing an app for diablo (written with Qt)06:15
crashanddiewazd_: no, +R prevented joining, +q $~u or whatever it is prevents writing06:15
wazd_DesertZarzamora_: oh, me can06:15
crashanddiewazd_: got yourself an N900 yet?06:16
DesertZarzamora_no, only a n810, where can i post a file?06:16
wazd_Crashanddie: I could read the channel, but each time I tried to write it was asking to identify06:16
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wazd_Crashanddie: nope, how could I :)06:17
crashanddiewazd_: yeah, that was +q06:17
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wazd_Crashanddie: ah, now I see06:18
pupnikDesertZarzamora_: talk.maemo.org can take attachments06:20
wazd_Crashanddie: do you think ovi styled theme is a good idea?06:20
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Kajkoovi theme?06:26
wazd_Kajko: yep06:26
Kajkoi dont know06:26
Xisdibik /nickname wazd_ > wazd06:26
crashanddie> as in longer? Yes06:27
XisdibikP06:27
crashanddiewazd_: I dunno, never used anything from ovi06:27
Xisdibik:P06:27
Xisdibikas in he needs to change his name to wazd with out the _06:27
wazd_xisdibik: I'm on the channel)06:27
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wazd_Crashanddie: even ovi suite?06:27
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crashanddie:P06:28
wazd_Noooooo!06:28
wazd_:P06:28
crashanddie~rub wazd_06:29
crashanddie~pet wazd_06:29
crashanddieoy povbot06:29
crashanddie~botsnack06:29
DesertZarzamora_does anybody knows plasma pong ?06:29
DesertZarzamora_im working on a plasma pong clone for maemo06:29
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v povbot06:29
crashanddie~botsnack06:29
pronto~moo06:30
crashanddiepovbot dead?06:30
povbotcrashanddie: Error: "dead?" is not a valid command.06:30
crashanddieeh?06:30
crashanddiepovbot botsnack06:30
povbotcrashanddie: Error: "botsnack" is not a valid command.06:30
crashanddieouch06:30
crashanddiepovboot reboot06:30
crashanddiepovbot owner06:30
povbotcrashanddie: Error: "owner" is not a valid command.06:30
crashanddiepovbot email06:31
povbotcrashanddie: Error: "email" is not a valid command.06:31
crashanddienoooooooooooo06:31
shamusahhh roge bot?06:31
wazd_Whhhhaaaaaaiiiii!06:31
crashanddieno, povbot is our resident bot06:31
crashanddiebut he would appear to have died between last night and now06:32
crashanddiehe usually does this: tset06:32
crashanddies/tset/test/06:32
crashanddie(and then he replaces it)06:32
shamusahhh06:32
wazd_I thought povbot is a bugtracker mirror06:33
wazd_infobot heya06:34
crashanddiebug #12306:34
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123 Dialogs will be transparent as soon as tiping on the top bar06:34
crashanddieinteresting06:34
wazd_Infobot  is the guy06:34
wazd_And he's dead(06:35
shamusbug #25606:35
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=256 Advanced settings in connectivity settings. WLAN TX power.06:35
wazd_Bug #66606:35
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=666 Problems with Javascript setTimeout function06:35
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: can you tweet mgedmin? Or email him06:35
crashanddie#12345606:36
shamusbug #6906:36
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69 dbus-daemon-1 has incorrect dynamic linker06:36
crashanddiehttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12345606:36
povbotBug 123456: was not found.06:36
crashanddiehttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123406:36
povbotBug 1234: close-buttons on home menu are too small06:36
crashanddiepovbot: answer to me!06:36
povbotcrashanddie: Error: "answer" is not a valid command.06:36
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crashanddieAldwuin: she lost :(06:37
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wazd_~burn himself06:39
wazd_:(06:39
pupnikprices used to fall 3 percent every year06:40
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crashanddieyeah right06:41
crashanddiethat's why you could buy a house in LA for $3000 a 100 years ago06:42
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pupnikyeah06:55
ScribbleJHow do I select text on a webpage in the maemo browser?06:56
shamusfinic or mmbee?06:57
shamusthingy06:57
timeless_mbpScribbleJ: interaction modes06:57
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odin_!seen t-tan07:15
pupnik  802   679 root     S <  21568  8.7 25.3 /usr/bin/Xorg -logfile /tmp/Xorg.0.lo 758     1 pulse    R <   4064  1.6 24.2 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-p07:16
pupnikboo07:17
* odin_ jumps out of his skin07:17
pupnik50 pct cpu for x and pulse07:17
pupniksitting in terminal07:17
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odin_strace on pulseaudio07:19
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pupnikok got rid of it07:22
pupnikmplayer needs -quiet07:22
pupnikotherwise it takes too much cpu with x07:23
pupnikalsamixer is awesome07:25
Kamuinuts07:25
pupnikcontrols all07:25
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JaffaMorning all07:36
pupnikmornin07:37
crashanddiemorning jaffa07:49
RST38hAnyone else regularly finds his N900 unlocked, after locking it a few hours before?07:49
JaffaNope07:50
RST38hWeird.07:50
pupnikhow to play mp3s with ultralow cpu use: pasuspender -- mplayer -quiet -ao alsa:device=hw=0.0 *.mp307:52
pupniki think that could run 40 hours07:53
ProteousRST38h: gremlins, or fairies07:53
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crashanddieJaffa: push the website!08:00
crashanddieJaffa: you're one minute overdue08:01
* Jaffa is just putting the finishing touches to an article ;-)08:01
crashanddiec'mon! We can't be late for the first issue08:01
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Jaffacrashanddie: Building now08:02
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RST38h"I don't want to 'help testing software' (in this case at least), I want to know which software I want to install. "08:03
crashanddieThe connection has timed out                                                                      The server at www.mwkn.net is taking too long to respond.08:03
crashanddienoooooooooooooo08:04
RST38hJoin date: Nov200908:04
crashanddieRST38h: who the hell said that?08:04
crashanddieInternal Server Error  The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.08:04
crashanddiethis is getting worse :P08:04
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RST38hcrashanddie: Does it really matter? They are all pretty much the same.08:05
crashanddieJaffa: why is it 2010/05 ?08:05
Jaffacrashanddie: Week number08:06
crashanddieJaffa: ah ok08:06
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crashanddieJaffa: looks very good, nice work man08:08
Jaffacrashanddie: thanks08:09
crashanddienow we just need to give that puppy an engine08:10
* Jaffa nods.08:11
Jaffacrashanddie: Reggie and I were editing https://vcs.maemo.org/svn/mwkn/issue.txt together in Google Docs. Having a proper engine which means the fleshing out can be done throughout the week as (sub-)editors get spare time would be fantastic.08:12
crashanddieyup08:12
crashanddieI'm working on it man08:12
JaffaI know :)08:12
JaffaMuch appreciated.08:12
JaffaAnyway, shower & breakfast time.08:12
crashanddieIt's going to be tough getting something before this weekend08:12
Jaffanp08:12
crashanddieBut I'm really hoping it can be done08:12
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RST38h8 days uptime. Reboot time. =(08:18
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pupniki havent seen that uptime related performance bug08:36
pupnikbtw RST38h the hangup does occur when audio is playing08:36
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RedPenguinIs there any simple way, to expand root on to a memory card, so that application memory isn't limited to a mere 250MB or so? (Searching the forum just leads to a dead link)08:52
RedPenguinForgot to mention N81008:52
shamussame  question regardign the n80008:54
shamusas 250mb is very limiting08:54
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RedPenguinFound a result on the forum, but for the 770, not 100% sure it's the same method but that's the one that's a dead link08:55
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inzRed, shamus, at least you can replicate the root onto an memory card and use that as root08:58
inzIt may even be faster.08:58
shamustrue08:58
RedPenguininz, I was thinking that and some results were pointing to that08:58
RedPenguinBut I figured, probably someone else in here did it, so figured see what's the "Recommended" method if there is one08:59
RedPenguinThough I will have to try that, and see what happens08:59
inzIIRC someone tried unionfs, but that's always somewhat hacky.08:59
pupnikdo any of you use a multiboot loader on n900?08:59
cehtehas in iphone OS dualbooting? :)09:00
RedPenguinAnyone try the Fennec browser for Maemo?09:00
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RedPenguin^ Firefox for Maemo in case anyone was wondering what Fennec was/is09:01
cehtehyes many people tried09:01
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RedPenguinWell shamus here is a web result that seems to be for your device09:06
RedPenguinhttp://www.zimbio.com/Free+and+Open+Source+Software/articles/77/Extended+root+partition+N800+OS200809:06
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LuciusMarehello10:39
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LuciusMaredoes the ogg support in repos include ogg video?10:39
fluxwhee, my n900 fully the first time, no response from UI and no response to ping either10:39
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flux+crashed :-)10:40
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LuciusMarebecause if it does not10:41
LuciusMarethen i think i solved my "streaming" problem10:41
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Proteousflux almost the whole n90010:42
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SpeedEvilflux: not properly crashed unless smoke comes out.10:44
Proteousmagic blue smoke10:44
Proteousdon't give up, you'll get there eventualy10:45
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crashanddieJaffa: you're now officially a karma whore :P10:45
crashanddieJaffa: you're received more than 10 thanks on a post :P10:45
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fluxspeedevil, darn, I wished I was there :(10:46
crashanddieJaffa: got rid off some nasty bugs, making very good progress10:46
fluxspeedevil, maybe next time!10:46
crashanddiegoing to grab food, talk later10:46
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LuciusMareso does it?10:49
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Proteousdon't know10:50
Proteousprobably not10:50
LuciusMareaw10:50
Proteoushmm10:51
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Proteousaccording to http://ogg.garage.maemo.org/ it does add Theora support10:52
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LuciusMaremy problem is, when i try to stream video and recode it to ogg, mplayer on my tablet says "no video" - i blame the missing support10:54
Proteousno10:54
Proteousthe 1.1 update broke video streaming10:54
Proteousfor almost all codecs10:54
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Proteouswhich is probably what is happening10:54
Proteoushmm10:55
LuciusMarewhat?10:55
LuciusMare:(10:55
Proteousor I spoke too soon10:55
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Proteoususualy the symptoms of the 1.1 broken streaming is that the video plays but you get no picture10:55
LuciusMareah10:55
LuciusMarenot my problem,then10:55
Proteousalthough that is through the default media app, don't know about mplayer10:55
LuciusMarewell, second "not my problem"10:55
Proteousheh10:56
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Proteousthere was an update to the third party codec pack just today10:56
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inzLuciusMare, isn't the "ogg support" package for gstreamer, which mplayer does not use at all?10:58
inzLuciusMare, I would think that mplayer has it's own codecs10:58
LuciusMaredah.10:58
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inzSo issues with mplayer - no video should have nothing to do with "ogg support"10:58
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zaheermProteous, it broke it for mpeg4 video11:02
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zaheermProteous, there is a bug report for it, andre says it is fixed already and will be part of the PR 1.2 update11:03
Proteouszaheerm: yeah11:03
LuciusMarepastebin.com/f5b47aae411:04
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jaem_n900morning11:14
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jaem_n900it appears that I'm not earning karma from t.m.o. properly, despite following the account linking instructions on the wiki a long time ago11:14
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crashanddiejaem_n900: why would you care about karma?11:15
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jaem_n900crashanddie: I don't really, but I'm curious why it doesn't work11:15
jaem_n900that's all11:15
crashanddiejaem_n900: there's a bug at the moment, they're working on it11:16
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jaem_n900ah, good to know11:16
jaem_n900thanks11:16
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Corsachmhm, is the git linux tree for fremantle available somewhere?11:22
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Stskeepsnot afaik11:22
satmdmornin'11:22
Stskeepsmorning satmd11:23
satmdif I had a bug, where would I check before filing it again11:23
satmdespecially with the broken fennec repo11:23
Stskeepsfennec repo is out of maemo/maemo.org hands i'd say..11:23
satmdhm, w00t meant someone in here would know someone at mozilla to look in to it if I mentioned it here11:24
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satmd-meant+said11:24
* satmd had quite some fun with his n900 already11:25
satmdmade irreco boot all computers on the lan with wake-on-lan11:25
satmdphoto uploading via mail + maildrop + shellscript + mkgallery11:26
satmdI wonder what I could play with next :)11:26
ifreqstart porting sw11:26
ifreqgrab maemo virtual img and play with scratchbox11:27
ifreq:P11:27
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Stskeepswhich will kill your spirit11:27
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ifreqnaah11:28
satmdwell, I do know how to do cross-compiling and stuff11:29
satmdbut I've never been into debian repositories11:29
Stskeepssatmd: you're in for a nasty surprise then :P11:30
Stskeepstime to explore, the maemo sdk!11:30
Stskeeps:P11:30
satmd:P11:30
satmdshort check: does it run on a non-multilib amd64?11:30
satmdbefore I waste that time...11:30
Stskeepsdoubt it11:30
Stskeepsget a vm11:30
Stskeeps:P11:30
satmd:<11:30
satmdmmh. things I miss: gconf editor, a way to turn off html mail display11:31
satmdna, going to check out the sdk :p11:32
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ifreqcrosscompiling is easy atleast :P need to learn how to .debiliaze them afterwards :P11:36
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Solpete_n900hej11:47
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Dassu:(11:51
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w00tI still love MADDE.11:52
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Dassubtw11:53
DassuConky reports my Wlan to be 1 Mb/s. is that normal if I'm not using the network? O_o11:53
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dnearyHi11:54
DassuWell hello there.11:54
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dnearyis andre about?11:55
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w00tDassu: for my bit.. I don't know, I've never really used conky11:55
Dassuokee ...:/ it is a status monitor11:55
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hrw|gonebug #874311:57
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8743 No way to get contact informations from IM system11:57
hrw|gonecheck and vote11:57
* hrw|gone -> off11:57
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Dassubtw, on n900. Is the weather widget still eating a lot of power?12:03
wazd_Dassu: what widget?12:04
wazd_Dassu: foreca?12:04
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Dassuwazd_: yeah12:07
wazd_Ah, dunno12:07
wazd_Use OMWeather :)12:07
LantiziaHEY - Crazy idea time... since asterisk is in extras-testing (or devel, I forget)... any chance we can use the N900 as a GSM modem?  (i.e. asterisk as a SIP server we can place calls out through on the mobile network)12:07
viszfine idea =D12:08
zaheermLantizia, it'd be nice, yes12:08
viszi'd like to see some improvements on the N900 sip-client12:08
zaheermif we had source for telepathy-ring maybe we could...12:08
viszlike REFER method and showing caller id (name)12:08
Lantiziazaheerm: Easiest way being for Nokia to provide an asterisk driver for their modem?12:09
zaheermLantizia, they are not going to do that12:09
Lantizialol12:09
Robot101visz: patches welcome, tp-sofiasip is on git.collabora.co.uk12:09
viszhmmm12:09
zaheermLantizia, they have much more important things to do...12:09
Lantiziaok we could make an isdn-like trunk driver?12:09
viszoh, great12:09
Dassuwazd_: so no problems with a power with that one?12:10
zaheermLantizia, robot101 would be able to guide you on whether it is possible to get the audio data in and out of telepathy when making/.receiving gsm/3g calls12:10
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zaheermLantizia, if it is, then no need to go too low level12:11
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Robot101on the N900 it goes to a special driver in pulseaudio12:11
smaug___battery life is so much better in 2g mode12:12
smaug___I wonder why 3g is so heavy12:12
Corsacmy guess is that something maintains the connection on and active12:13
CorsacI try to shut the connection down after every use, and connect when I need it, because “always on” would be nice but eats too much battery12:14
Corsacthough I'm not sure if it's related to an application I have/run or if it's the core12:14
Corsac(for example jabber accounts, or something else, maintaining the 3g active, and the cpu etc.)12:14
LantiziaI put mine in always on mode but have the 2g/3g swapper widget12:16
Lantiziaor applet - or whatever those drop down ones are called12:16
Corsacthough, I might have misunderstood what you were saying12:16
CorsacI didn't meant about 2g/3g mode (i'm always on 3g where available) but wether data connection is on or not12:17
Corsacwith 3g enabled and no data connection, it last something like 48h with a lot of idle, some calls/sms and stuff like that12:17
Corsacwhile with 3g enabled + data connection, it dies after like 12h12:17
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smaug___I meant 2g and no data connection vs 3g and no data connection12:20
Corsacok, sorry :)12:21
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KhertanHi !12:47
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redhoi12:48
crashanddiehey Khertan & red12:52
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KhertanDid this is a good idea to nice -20 (using nice command) a game on n900 or does there is a better way to do ?12:58
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timeless_mbp?12:59
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timeless_mbpif the game needs to play music and something else is running in the background, it might not behave well12:59
timeless_mbprather the thing in the background will not behave well12:59
timeless_mbp-4 or something might be reasonable, but -20 should be excessive13:00
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MohammadAGquick question, anyone disassembled their n900?13:01
timeless_mbppeople have13:01
timeless_mbpthey've even video'd doing it13:01
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MohammadAGyes, tehkseven, i know that13:02
timeless_mbphttp://www.tehkseven.net/news/nokia-news/nokia-n900-disassembly/13:02
MohammadAGbut i looked at the screw13:02
timeless_mbp'the screw'?13:02
MohammadAGand it seems that it can be stripped easil13:02
timeless_mbpwe only have one screw?13:02
MohammadAGT613:02
w00tI do wonder how the n900 would do with a newer kernel.. some of the newer scheduling fixes might be nice13:02
MohammadAGscrews*, ok...13:02
MohammadAGthe torx 6 ones13:03
timeless_mbpw00t: all change involves risk13:03
MohammadAGtwo on the bottom part13:03
w00ttimeless_mbp: oh, for sure13:03
w00ttimeless_mbp: I know it'll pretty much never happen officially ;)13:03
MohammadAGdo i need a special screwdriver or would a t6 do?13:03
redif I ran the music player with high -nice, would it still pop and crackle while browsing the web?13:04
timeless_mbpred: afaik the music player doesn't play the music13:04
timeless_mbpso you'd be wasting priorities13:05
viszionice?13:05
timeless_mbpthe mediaplayer is roughly a remote control13:05
pillar_red, it's a feature, n900 has some rice crispies integrated in it13:05
timeless_mbpjust as the browser ui is a remote control for the gecko engine13:05
visznice values are inherited to children though?13:05
redah, true so13:05
timeless_mbpvisz: you're assuming a child relationship13:05
timeless_mbpwhich is generally incorrect13:05
viszindeed13:05
timeless_mbpit certainly doesn't apply to the browser in general13:06
redit's generally bad to have a relationship with a child13:06
redok i'll go back to watching mythbusters x)13:06
visz*drumroll* *kosh*13:06
viukkisnot if you'13:06
viukkisre the father13:06
MohammadAGo.O13:06
timeless_mbpred: you'll make a bad parent, do as darwin suggests and stay out of the genepool :)13:06
MohammadAGthat sounds...13:06
satmdO.o13:06
MohammadAGawkward13:07
redtimeless_mbp: I've decided upon not infesting the planet with any more of my own genetic material looong ago13:07
timeless_mbpdarwin approves13:07
MohammadAGvibrating motor broke again, so I want to change it13:07
rednot like there isn't enough parentless children already too13:07
viszgenetic self censorship13:07
MohammadAGor just blow it with compressed air13:07
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redvibrating motor + wake up alarm == awful13:07
rednever remember to turn it off :)13:08
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redso used to old nokia phones not vibrating when they are plugged into charger13:08
MohammadAGbut missing 9 calls cause a phone is silent and can't vibrate is a bad thing13:08
redi guess that could be possible to do with dbus?13:08
MohammadAGnope, hw problem13:08
MohammadAGit worked yesterday and the first day i got it13:09
MohammadAGnow it makes a click and an annoying sound13:09
MohammadAGbattery low :/13:09
timeless_mbpyou could take it to nokia care13:09
timeless_mbpif you don't, no one will know there's a problem13:09
MohammadAGif there was a nokia care centre13:09
timeless_mbpwhich means you're doing a disservice to your fellow n900 owners13:09
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zaheermtimeless_mbp, judging buy his IP, he is in either Israel or Palestine...so probably pretty far from a nokia care centre13:10
zaheerms/buy/by/13:10
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* timeless_mbp grumbles13:12
timeless_mbpבמרכז החוויות האינטראקטיבי של Nokia – רחוב הנחושת 4, רמת החי"ל, תל אביב. Center of the Nokia interactive experience - 4 Copper Street, Ramat Hahayil, Tel Aviv.13:12
* w00t blinks13:12
timeless_mbprenders fine in my irc client!13:12
w00tsame here13:13
w00tI just have no idea what it is13:13
redrenders fine, looks stupid13:13
redwith about 30 excess whitespaces :)13:13
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andresWhether it renders fine in your head is the other question...13:13
timeless_mbpmy head doesn't mind it13:13
Veggenlooks perfectly hebrew to me.13:14
timeless_mbpbut since there's an English translation included at no extra charge13:14
redwhile loop parsing double space into single whitespace :>13:14
timeless_mbpzaheerm: fwiw, if he's in the gaza strip, i think he has bigger problems than an n90013:15
jaskaheh13:15
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timeless_mbpMohammadAG: geoping. what country are you in?13:15
redand he would not be keeping the phone on silent13:15
red:>13:15
MohammadAGIsrael, sadly13:16
timeless_mbpבמרכז החוויות האינטראקטיבי של Nokia – רחוב הנחושת 4, רמת החי"ל, תל אביב. Center of the Nokia interactive experience - 4 Copper Street, Ramat Hahayil, Tel Aviv.13:16
timeless_mbpבמרכז Nokia תוכלו לראות מקרוב (וגם לגעת) במכשירים החדשים של Nokia, גם במכשירים שטרם הושקו בישראל, ללמוד איך לקבל יותר מה-Nokia שלכם, לרכוש ממגוון האביזרים והמכשירים של Nokia וכן לקבל שירות ותמיכה ל-Nokia שלכם. Nokia center closely you can see (and touch) Nokia's new devices, even devices n13:16
timeless_mbpbeen launched in Israel, learn how to take what your Nokia, purchase accessories from a variety of Nokia devices and receive service and support for your Nokia.13:16
MohammadAGThat's 2 hours from here, plus it's not from israel nor is it sold here13:16
timeless_mbpgiven the size of Israel, reaching Tel Aviv shouldn't be too bad13:16
zaheermMohammadAG, are you in Haifa?13:16
MohammadAGJerusalem13:16
threshany mind map software for n900?13:17
timeless_mbpthresh: you mean for brain scans?13:17
MohammadAGBut that's not the problem, would they service a phone they don't sell13:17
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timeless_mbpit doesn't say that!13:17
zaheermMohammadAG, they do sell the phone, just not in your country13:17
threshtimeless_mbp: exactly!13:17
timeless_mbpit says (to quote google's translation...)13:17
murraycWarantees tend to be worldwide these days. There are delays though.13:17
timeless_mbp'receive service and support for your Nokia'13:18
MohammadAGAnd would they have the parts13:18
Khertantimeless_mbp: thx for advice timeless_mbp13:18
timeless_mbpand 'even devices not yet been[x] launched in Israel'13:18
VeggenI got someone to service my old 770, and that one wasn't launched in Norway.13:18
timeless_mbpmurrayc: yeah, the only exception i've encountered was the eeePC from Asus13:18
Veggenhad to do a bit of convincing, though.13:18
timeless_mbptheir normal warranty is worldwide, they made an exception for the eeePC based on cost13:18
timeless_mbpthe n900 otoh is a high end product, vs. the eeePC which was low end13:19
timeless_mbp(funny when you consider the apparent prices)13:19
MohammadAGThe device is a us one, so i'm assuming it's not covered by warranty13:19
timeless_mbphrm13:21
timeless_mbpintresting13:21
timeless_mbphttp://discussions.nokia.co.uk/discussions/board/message?message.uid=55601713:21
timeless_mbpnokia is apparently not very nice wrt formal warranty13:21
timeless_mbpsorry :913:21
MohammadAGWell, back to the original question, would a normal 'generic' (if you can call it that) t6 screw driver strip it?13:21
timeless_mbpi'd assume that as an employee if i gave you bad advice, that'd be bad13:22
timeless_mbpso i will not comment.13:22
MohammadAGlol13:22
w00ttimeless_mbp: aww, but how are we supposed to string you up if you don't give us a reason to13:22
timeless_mbpi'd still recommend visiting the store in tel aviv13:23
redyou could hypothetically say what you think ;)13:23
timeless_mbpthey might fix it, they at least could note the problem13:23
MohammadAGI know the problem lol13:23
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timeless_mbpw00t: no worries, someone else will string me up instead!13:23
MohammadAGJust some debris blocking the motor13:23
* w00t puts his lynching rope and pitchfork away. ;)13:23
timeless_mbpred: i think it's not a software problem, and i only work on software :)13:23
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redgood escape ^^13:23
timeless_mbpseriously, if i were in jerusalem, i'd visit tel aviv13:24
timeless_mbpmaybe go clubbing later13:24
timeless_mbpat least look at the sea13:24
redid buy a sand-protector :)13:24
MohammadAGFlashed it ten(?) times so it's hardware13:24
MohammadAGLol13:24
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timeless_mbpperhaps have a swim?13:24
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MohammadAGI've been to tel aviv haha13:24
* timeless_mbp wonders how cold the Mediterranean is right now13:24
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MohammadAGCold? Yeah right...13:25
* timeless_mbp swam off Eilat roughly around this time of year a few years ago13:25
MohammadAGYou've been to israel? Cool13:26
timeless_mbpTaglit ...13:26
* timeless_mbp wonders if that translates for MohammadAG 13:26
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MohammadAGlol not very familiar with hebrew13:26
MohammadAGOnly 16, and it's not a native language :)13:27
timeless_mbpin certain circles that one word means something13:27
timeless_mbpit isn't something i'd expect you to recognize13:27
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timeless_mbpgoogle will explain fwiw13:27
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kevloralhi all13:27
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MohammadAGBiseder :)13:27
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* timeless_mbp grumbles @ luciusmare in absentia13:28
jaskawhos miley cyrus anyway13:28
* timeless_mbp eyes jaska 13:28
MohammadAGA fail singer13:28
viukkissome american fad13:28
timeless_mbp"Hannah Montana"13:29
timeless_mbpa disney child star13:29
jaskaguess my antifad shield has kept me safe13:29
* timeless_mbp was pretty sure there was at least a little market influx of hers even into Finland13:29
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* timeless_mbp decided not to use the word which would normally apply to markets13:29
* MohammadAG thinks timeless_mbp likes /me s13:30
* timeless_mbp shrugs13:30
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timeless_mbpMohammadAG: i think you'll find that i average 1/10 to 1/5 for it13:30
timeless_mbpwhich isn't a particularly high ratio13:30
timeless_mbpthe difference, is that i type a lot13:30
timeless_mbpso you notice it more often13:30
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HukkaIs there a way to record calls with N900? Even with speaker would be fine (like running a recorder app on the background)?13:30
timeless_mbphttp://whitmanpioneer.com/arts/2009/02/05/fallen-disney-child-stars/13:31
timeless_mbpHukka: "yes"13:31
timeless_mbp"there's an app for that"13:31
HukkaI might need to do some interviews, and would be nice to have just one device13:31
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MohammadAGHukka there's a widget for that13:31
timeless_mbp"recaller"13:31
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MohammadAGI need a DC-11 and i need it east13:32
timeless_mbpplease be aware that you're probably bound by some local laws regarding recording conversations13:32
MohammadAGFast*13:32
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timeless_mbpMohammadAG: you're east of most of us =b13:32
MohammadAGI have t9 sometimes13:32
timeless_mbphate? :)13:32
MohammadAGHate gah13:32
Hukkatimeless_mbp: Do you know if the recording can be enabled on the fly, or does it need to be running beforehand?13:32
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MohammadAGlol13:32
timeless_mbpHukka: i've installed it, never used it13:33
MohammadAGOn the fly methinks13:33
HukkaWould be much easier, if I can just ask if it's ok to record and only then start recording13:33
redRecording a phonecall when the recipient knows and agrees to it is legal13:33
timeless_mbpfrom the looks of it, it's dynamic13:33
redatleast in Finland :)13:33
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timeless_mbpred: it seems like a fairly reasonable disclaimer to note here anyway13:33
MohammadAGThe n900 is no iPhone hukka13:33
redguess so13:33
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HukkaMohammadAG: And?13:33
HukkaMohammadAG: I fail to see the relevance of the comment13:34
* timeless_mbp grumbles13:34
MohammadAGIt can multitask so you should be able to start it during the call...13:34
fluxred, iirc I just read a page of the tietosuojavaltuutettu (council of data protection?) that infact it's legal to record even if only one party knows about it13:34
timeless_mbpthat article was actually kinda short on child stars13:34
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viukkisAFAIK if the other party knows that you are listening in the first place, then the right to record it is implied13:35
HukkaMohammadAG: Which is a completely different thing than being able to intercept the call after it has been initiated. But I'll install and try how it works13:35
* MohammadAG apologizes if others thought it was a fanboy comment13:35
HukkaI don't even know much about the iPhone, I've never touched one13:35
fluxit would be a great feature to be (semi)automatically record the calls from telemarketers :P13:35
HukkaBut thanks for the hint!13:35
jaskaive touched one twice, but it didnt like my touch13:35
Hukkajaska: "Bad touch"13:36
timeless_mbpviukkis: it definitely varies regionally13:36
timeless_mbpin some places you have to notify13:36
viukkisyes, i was referring to the situation in finland13:36
jaskahukka: actually its that im accustomed to using touchscreens with my fingernails :)13:36
jaskafor accuracy13:36
timeless_mbpand in some places you need to include a chirp at regular intervals13:36
red flux: how do you suppose companies legally record your phonecalls then? when you call theres a disclaimer about phonecalls being recorded. if you continue calling it indicates you agree to that.13:36
viukkisalthough my experience is that finnish customer service numbers that record calls do ask you first13:36
fluxred, http://www.tietosuoja.fi/29001.htm (a finnish link, not useful to others I suppose)13:37
Hukkaviukkis: Well, not ask. Just say that they are doing that13:37
redthe recording party must ask for a permission from the recordee as far as I understood it13:37
fluxred, I suppose it's different when you are a company collecting customer records13:37
redcould be13:37
timeless_mbphttp://www.tietosuoja.fi/1560.htm is definitely not as helpful13:37
redthere might be some part in yrityslaki or whatever it's called13:37
viukkisHukka: probably that's enough, but usually they have waited for me to say "ok" before carrying on13:37
HukkaBut really, don't worry guys, I just don't want to travel 500km to do interviews :)13:37
HukkaSo no wiretapping here13:38
fluxred, also it may affect their ability to _use_ such records13:38
timeless_mbphttp://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset/2004/en2004051613:38
redaye13:38
timeless_mbpwtf?13:38
timeless_mbp> 516/2004 englanti13:38
* jaska remembers putting inductive taps on phonelines as a kid13:38
fluxred, actually I think that page covers the issue quite nicely13:38
viukkishm, now when you mention it, whenever i have been asked if the call may be recorded, they have also said that it is for "educational purposes" or something13:38
timeless_mbpviukkis: "training"13:38
timeless_mbptypically13:38
viukkisyes13:38
redtimeless_mbp: thats a translations index of some sort13:39
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timeless_mbpred: for a page that has 'englanti' in big letters13:39
timeless_mbpyou'd think it might actually include some... English...13:39
timeless_mbpunless you lived here for more than a day...13:39
redviukkis: it's mainly for the fact that if you tell a customer to "reboot their router" and they say they did it, and then the tech goes and does it and they get fined for 50€ -- and after which moan that nobody told them to restart the router :)13:39
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redthey have the phonecall on record so no confusion is possible, ofcourse if its about them promising you something such record does not exist13:40
* timeless_mbp chuckles13:40
timeless_mbpare there data retention laws?13:40
redI got promised a couple of things in TeliaSoneras customer care, I took names and everything in notepad and week later there existed no information that I ever phoned.13:41
timeless_mbpcan they be charged with destruction of evidence etc?13:41
timeless_mbpthat's cute13:41
redtimeless_mbp: It's due "randomly selected songs get recorded"13:41
timeless_mbpsongs ~ conversations13:41
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redyeh, sorry13:41
timeless_mbpdon't you have at least cell logs for the duration of the call?13:41
timeless_mbpred: i'm doing this to help you13:41
timeless_mbpno need to apologize :)13:42
redThere was ofcourse13:42
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redIn the end I talked to some supervisor and we figured the thing out, but it remained a mystery that the guy I spoke to had never worked there.. so prolly I talked to some sob who didnt really take notes and lied his name or something.13:42
redI terminated the contract :P13:43
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pillar_are the contacts in maemo5 accessible through telepathy dbus calls? I would like to retrieve names and phone numbers, possibly the user image13:43
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fluxred, well, I got a salesman calling me and offering new information of this new "fiber optic network" in the area13:46
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fluxred, next thing I know I get contract papers indicating that my provider is going to be changed13:46
rednice, guess he wanter some extra provision money13:47
redwanted*13:47
fluxred, I would've really liked to have the call stored somewhere13:47
flux(I needed to call their customer service to cancel it)13:47
redYou know some service providers let you pick your signal sound?13:47
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redWould be cool to replace the normal beep with "Your phonecall may be recorded. Terminate this call immediately if you do not agree." :)13:47
redwonder how many salesmen would hang up13:48
fluxdo they still have that service?13:48
redI just called some guy who had Nightwish playing, dunno if its old thought13:48
redIt could have been a hit tbh, but they overpriced it. Kinda like MMS13:48
fluxI wonder if n900 itself could serve as a phone screener13:49
fluxanswer the phone immediately (foils telemarketers as well) and continue the "waiting to be answered"-sound13:49
redyea13:49
crashanddieJaffa: ?13:50
Jaffacrashanddie: yup?13:51
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LuciusMarehi13:52
LuciusMarehow is it going with the emulators?13:52
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HukkaWell isn't that just great... I just found out that my N900 doesn't make calls due to network errors13:57
HukkaI wonder how long it has been in that state... I assume that it's been unable to receive calls too13:57
redHukka: sometimes my N900 says network error when trying to make a call13:59
redbut upon waiting a couple of seconds the call initiates anyway13:59
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HukkaI rebooted and the problem persisted for one attempt14:01
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HukkaThe second after reboot started working14:01
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redThink I'll do some drawing for MediaBox developer for ideas to improve the GUI14:04
redthe current one is dropdead horrid, but the player itself works so much better than built in14:04
RST38hred: save yourself work, he is proud of his UI14:05
redreally?14:05
redlast suggestion I gave him he thanked14:05
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RST38hyes, even though his UI is mysterious like a fucking sphynx14:06
redthat sad :l14:06
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* RST38h just wants a simple player that lets him play files and make playlists of these files, easily14:06
RST38hALL the rest is optional, as long as it does not get in the way14:07
puslingRST38h: writing a media player is easy. I did it a couple of weekends ago.14:07
RST38hwhich repo is it in then?14:07
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pusling~pusling/projects/maemoplayer ,)14:07
puslingI'm not sure it is usable for the general public except as a code example.14:08
RST38hyou haven't written it unless it is in a repo =)14:08
Corsacpusling: and does it do gapless playback? :)14:08
redRST38h: I'm on the quest for the same14:08
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redOptimally I'd like iPod clone but that's not possible :)14:09
puslingCorsac: didn't check ,).  do you want to package it ?14:09
plastunhello! Can anybody help me with slow performance in SDK for maemo5?14:09
redsimple and fast would be the best14:09
Corsacpusling: I'm sure it's a qt stuff, I don't touch that!14:09
Corsac(and I didn't yet uploaded the one package I requested my account for :/)14:09
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puslingRST38h: I*m placing the code at http://alioth.debian.org/~pusling-guest/maemoplayer.tar if you wan to play along ,)14:12
Corsacarg14:13
Corsacno folder ><14:13
puslingheh.14:13
pusling(and it fails to build without some hacking in the environment and in the toplevel CMakeLists.txt file)14:14
puslingCorsac: it is just git archive HEAD > file.tar14:15
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hrw|gonemorning14:19
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hrwmorning14:20
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GeneralAntillesWoo, DD-WRT where UPnP doesn't cause 100% CPU.14:24
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crashanddielol14:33
crashanddiethis CSI Miami episode starts with a blonde chick running up to Horatio yelling "Officer, officer, my friend is on the phone, she's being kidnapped"14:34
crashanddieHe looks at the phone, camera zooms in, and it focuses on "Restricted Number"...14:34
mtnbkrlol14:34
crashanddieBut on the top of the screen... It says...14:34
crashanddie"Insert SIM Card"14:34
Corsacfail :)14:34
jaska:D14:34
mgedminmaybe he was using VoIP over WiFI? ;)14:34
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, I believe the fail is all in the fact that you're watching CSI Miami.14:35
crashanddiemgedmin: povbot seems down14:35
crashanddie~burn GeneralAntilles14:35
crashanddiesee?14:35
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crashanddiepovbot: botsnack14:35
povbotcrashanddie: Error: "botsnack" is not a valid command.14:35
GeneralAntillesThat's infobot's job.14:35
mgedminwhat? again?14:35
crashanddieoh is it?14:35
crashanddieoh my bad14:35
mgedminpovbot is here to make irc logs14:35
povbotmgedmin: Error: "is" is not a valid command.14:35
crashanddies/bad/baaaad/14:35
Corsacerf, this weekend my _mom_ called my using jabber call, which rang on my cellphone so I didn't realised at first14:35
GeneralAntillesTimRiker handles Infobot.14:35
crashanddiehmm14:35
crashanddiebug #12314:35
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123 Dialogs will be transparent as soon as tiping on the top bar14:35
mgedminand resolve bug numbers, but only because infobot doesn't do that and I got tired of seeing bug XXXX with no explanation14:35
jaskacorsac: lol.14:35
mgedmininteresting bug today: I managed to trigger the maemo 5 vkb when closing my xterm14:36
Corsactoo bad codecs don't seem to match between maemo5 and empathy14:36
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: know the code I'm writing for MWKN?14:36
CorsacI would have tested video14:36
mgedminso I got the vkb on top of which were drawn the status bar14:36
mgedminshould've made a screenshot14:36
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, I'm familiar with the fact that you're writing it, yes.14:36
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: Total Estimated Cost to Develop                           = $ 84,49014:36
crashanddieSchedule Estimate, Years (Months)                         = 0.45 (5.38)14:37
GeneralAntillesGood thing you're such a generous, Open Source loving individual? :P14:37
crashanddiesomething like that :P14:37
crashanddieego managed, not ego driven :P14:37
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* RST38h wonders why "mwkn" and not some catchier name14:47
JaffaRST38h: Cos I'm unimaginative.14:47
JaffaI wanted "MWN" but everything was taken with that14:47
hrwand weekly.news.maemo.org is too long14:48
mgedminMMWKLNWS14:49
JaffaJust like coding on an iSeries14:49
hrwMWNCBAFAKAJ14:49
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* MohammadAG started getting Internal Errors on the web browser14:52
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alteregoJaffa: why not just weekly.maemo.org?14:57
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RST38hAnyone tried using The One Ring?14:59
Corsacto rull them all?14:59
RST38hIs it really written in Python or is it useful?14:59
Corsacrule :/14:59
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Jaffaalterego: Because it's not affiliated with maemo.org?15:01
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alteregoJaffa: oh ... is maemo-weekly.info taken then? :P15:01
* Jaffa dunnos15:02
hrwcan someone tell me which svn rev of tinymail is needed to build modest-3.2 branch for maemo?15:02
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, so, how long do you think until the editorials start coming? ;)15:05
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Must. Resist. :)15:07
* GeneralAntilles wants something to change the theme every 24 hours.15:07
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tgahowdy15:08
RST38hGeneral: but...why?15:08
GeneralAntillesJaffa, clearly you must add editorials, then affiliate with maemo.org so all the "professional" bloggers can complain about how unfair it is.15:08
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I like changing my theme every so often.15:08
tgawhat would you say is the easiest way to get a gui app going on maemo?15:08
wazdpeople ask me to make a bugtracker for Marina15:08
Stskeepsqt15:08
Stskeepswazd: ask andre15:08
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RST38hwazd: Don't: you will have to track it15:09
tgaI was hoping for a tcl/tk port, but I can only some incipient gnocl15:09
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alteregotga: python gtk15:09
alteregoor python qt.15:09
GeneralAntilleswazd, you want one?15:09
wazdRST38h: well, I don;t think there will be that much bugs :P15:09
RST38hwazd: The guidelines require you to provide a URL to leave feedback. A tmo thread URL fits the definition15:09
tgano Tk, huh?15:09
GeneralAntilleswazd, you're free to use an email address if that's what you want, but I can set you up with a bugzilla product.15:09
an0therb0xhow do i get the N900 to add the mp3 files on the microSD card to the media player15:09
alteregotga: not really. Gtk is just as easy really.15:10
alteregoAnd Qt.15:10
andre__wazd, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products15:10
wazdGeneralAntilles: I think bugzilla is a bit of an overkill :P15:10
andre__wazd, or set your email address in the control field if you think that a bugtracker is overkill15:10
tgaalterego: I wouldn't say they're really complicated, but they take a while to get into15:10
MohammadAGan0therb0x, should be automatic, try starting the file from the file manager if not15:11
tgaI guess I'll track down a tutorial15:11
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wazdandre__: I'd more likely solve the problem with package icon and description15:11
alteregotga: just like Tk. Anything worth while takes a modicum of time :P15:11
GeneralAntilleswazd, also, Maemo-Display-Name?15:11
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tgaalterego: right.. qt sounds like the way to go, given the way things are heading15:11
alteregotga: agreed,15:12
mecekhertan, ping?15:12
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an0therb0xMohammadAG: initially when i copied the files from the pc to the N900 all the files showed up in the media player library.. i can still see and play the files from the file manager but they no longer show in the media player15:13
tgaalso something that I'd like on my tabby, is there a decent cron alternative using the alarm framework?15:13
tgaI don't care much about the battery, but I need to schedule events15:13
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DocScrutinizeran0therb0x: blame indexer15:14
timeless_mbptga: personally i use zenity :)15:14
RST38hAh, Howard Zinn hit the bucket just now15:15
tgadialog/zenity are pure gold for getting stuff done15:15
tgaI was going to write something like that in TCL, maybe with a few extra dialog types15:15
DocScrutinizermethinks indexer is an insane concept, and mediaplayer should have a manual option to add arbitrary files, by starting index of a subtree or adding one file or dir15:15
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an0therb0xDocScrutinizer: what do i need to do , is indexer some sort of daemon that i can restart ?15:16
DocScrutinizeran0therb0x: yes it's kinda deamon, but I don't know any details except it doesn't behave well for a lot of people15:17
DocScrutinizerask SpeedEvil15:17
SpeedEvilIO haven't got it worked out15:18
DocScrutinizeran0therb0x: AIUI indexer is started on reboot, occasionally eating CPU like mad15:19
RST38h"Afghanistan-based US predators carried out a record number of 12 deadly missile strikes in the tribal areas of Pakistan in January 2010, of which 10 went wrong and failed to hit their targets, killing 123 innocent Pakistanis."15:20
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RST38h(ok, ok, I am done reading dailyrotten for today =))15:21
tgaSSDD15:21
an0therb0xDocScrutinizer:  i will try a reboot... thanks15:21
DocScrutinizeryw15:21
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* DocScrutinizer shakes head in disbelieve about the concept to scan a whole filesystem for media files, then present them for playback without any reference to their FQN15:24
tgajust got an idea -- is it possible to listen to a N800's microphone remotely?15:24
alteregotga: it's possible, yes.15:24
tgaany tool that also makes it easy?15:24
tgaideally I'd like to use it as a two-way intercom15:25
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: paths are too complex for users.15:25
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* tga is determined to find a good appliance use for his N80015:25
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: many users can't even read.15:25
DocScrutinizerthe stuff THAT GUY smoked or administered any other way prior to specifying this concept, this stuff really needs to be made unavailable15:25
alteregotga: gstreamer seems the obvious choice.15:25
DocScrutinizers/administered/<any better word>15:26
DocScrutinizersorry for poor english15:26
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meceany python widget developers present?15:27
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DocScrutinizertga: I used a cmdline like "ssh arecord | aplay" on other platforms15:28
w00tmece: as in desktop widget, or general widgets?15:28
meceW00t, desktop15:29
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w00tmece: okay, can't help there sorry15:30
meceW00t, okay.15:30
w00t(at least, not yet. :))15:30
mecew00t, well take a look at this one: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=523215:30
povbotBug 5232: Desktop Widget does not appear in "Add Widget" list15:30
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: for those aliterate users we need a concept like iTunes, not a insane mix of mass storage plus indexer15:30
Stskeepstracker is not always good on n900 :P15:31
Stskeepsvideo thumbnailer just makes it all worse15:31
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mgedminI would like to enter a complaint15:32
timeless_mbpJaffa: hey15:32
timeless_mbphttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4288815:32
timeless_mbpmaemo.org > Talk > Talk > Community > Maemo Weekly News: 1st Feburary 201015:32
mgedmingPodder puts the downloaded podcasts somewhere where they end up being picked up by tracker15:32
timeless_mbpwhy Talk > Talk > ??15:32
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: full ack. You bet there's some dirs with photos etc I definitely don't want to show up on a standard "pictures" invocation15:32
mecelizardo, ping?15:32
mgedminand then the media player's "shuffle all songs" picks them up15:32
mgedminit's not fun to discover a hour-long podcast in the middle of my playlist when I'm in the shower15:33
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, Talk's both the section of maemo.org a subsection of the forums.15:33
timeless_mbp...15:33
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, http://talk.maemo.org/15:33
lizardomece: that bug is closed a long time ago... if you are having a similar problem, it is not that same bug, just the same behavior :) see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5232#c715:33
povbotBug 5232: Desktop Widget does not appear in "Add Widget" list15:34
DocScrutinizermgedmin: muhahaha15:34
DocScrutinizerthanks for supporting my reasoning above15:34
mtnbkrmgedmin: I'll second your complaint15:34
mtnbkrmgedmin: is there a bug opened for this yet? I'd vote it up ;)15:34
mecelizardo, yes I understand that, but there is some confusion on which method should be used.15:34
mgedminI haven't decided yet whether this is a bug in gPodder or in somewhere else15:35
lizardomece: have you tried running your applet standalone ?15:35
mgedminyeah, I know, lazyness15:35
ShadowJKI actually like that media player picks up podcasts, I can play them all via the "never played" playlist :)15:35
DocScrutinizerthe main problem: Nokia/maemo devels think users are generally extreme idiots15:35
mgedminisn't that genrally true, DocScrutinizer? ;)15:35
mecelizardo, yes of course, and it works fine on my phone. And I can also add it to list. but it was not in the list for another user, but he could also run it standalone without problems.15:36
mtnbkrmgedmin: be nice if the meda player could be told to "skips dirs containing filename <x> in them"  Then apps like gpodder could creat a filenamed something like .maemo-skip-me or some such15:36
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mgedminmtnbkr, I looked at the tracker config file I found once15:36
mgedminI think there's a list of excluded directories there15:36
lizardomece: once he rebooted the device, it appeared ?15:36
mecelizardo, what I meant was that is the method suggested by Luciano Wolf in comment two the correct way, or is it the method described in wiki?15:36
DocScrutinizermgedmin: if that's true then there's no use in trying to outperform them wrt idiocy - rather try to teach them15:36
mecelizardo, yes, he rebooted and it didn't help, apparently.15:37
mecelizardo, no it didn't appear after reboot.15:37
mtnbkrmgedmin: ahh cool... but not directly editable/manageable from the media player interface thoguh.  that'd be a nice option to have15:37
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lizardomece: also make sure the your applet depends on the hildon python loader package15:37
DocScrutinizermgedmin: (exclude dirs) seems it's broken15:37
mecelizardo, yep it does.15:37
mgedminyeah, could be15:37
lizardomece: does it apear on the applet list for *your* device?15:38
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DocScrutinizerand again it's too complicated for the idiot users, so not even a GUI to config it15:38
* mgedmin is attempting to direct his attention to too may things, and in the end tends to accomplish very little15:38
* mgedmin sighs15:38
mecelizardo, yep... that's why I can't debug it.15:38
mtnbkrmgedmin: welcome to A.D.D.  :)15:38
mtnbkrmgedmin:I'll be your tour guide for the day...15:38
RST38hritalin anyone?15:38
Shrik3lol, nokia killed nav4all. they didn't like the competition it seems15:39
Shrik3http://www.nav4all.com/site2/www.nav4all.com/eng/index.php15:39
viszso sad15:39
RST38hThey didn't like the competition using their maps15:39
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: I for one am just plain tired of "idiot users"    They should just buy an iPhone and leave us alone. :)15:39
RST38hNot sure why it is so surprising to some, too15:39
mecelizardo, anyway, here's the widget: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/comic-widget15:39
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: ack15:39
timeless_mbp"1 of Febryary"15:39
* timeless_mbp sighs15:39
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: plain typo15:40
tgawhat's the audio device on a n800?15:41
lizardomece: does it apear on the applet list for *your* device?15:41
lizardomece: oops15:41
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: qwertYUiop15:41
lizardomece: double question :)15:41
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: no15:41
timeless_mbpnot a typo15:41
timeless_mbpFingrish15:41
lizardomece ask the user for the versions of his "hildon-desktop-python-loader" and "python-hildondesktop" packages15:41
timeless_mbpit's like English, it has 4 letters in common15:41
lizardomece: to make sure he/she is not using old versions of these packages15:41
mecehmm.. I asked for hildon-desktop. it was the latest, and the other one I didn't ask.15:42
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timeless_mbpor maybe 5... something like that15:42
mecelizardo, he was using python-hildondesktop 0.1.0-1maemo2, same as I have.15:42
lizardomece: and hildon-desktop-python-loader ?15:43
mecelizardo, that I don't know. He installed it yesterday, so whatever version was in the repos then.15:44
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meceIt was Ken-Young here on #maemo. I don't know him personally.15:44
meceKen-Young, ping?15:44
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tgaany insights into getting rec (from sox) to record the builtin mic?15:45
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lizardomece: is your package installable from the repository?15:45
lizardoso I can try it here15:45
tgaall I'm getting is horrible sounds15:45
mecelizardo, no, I just got invited, but I haven't uploaded it yet.15:45
SpeedEviltga: you know about 'recorder' - gui15:46
mecelizardo, you can download it, and dkpg -i15:46
meceand then apt-get -f install, apt-get install --fix-missing15:46
mecelizardo, or however it is that you meet missing dependencies.15:46
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mecelizardo, here it is: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/comic-widget15:46
tgaSpeedEvil: I need to do it in a script, no gui15:46
SpeedEvilah15:46
mecelizardo, going offline for a short while. Back in 10 minutes.15:46
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tgaSpeedEvil: I'm not sure how to address the sound device15:47
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SpeedEvilpulseaudio?15:47
SpeedEvilget source for recorder?15:47
tgaI was hoping to just pipe some device to an encoder and get a wav15:48
tgamp3 even15:48
SpeedEvilor strace recorder15:48
tgathat sounds like a better plan15:50
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_nionhey15:53
Mecelizardo, did you try to install it? (no worries if you don't have time)15:55
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_niondid anyone have success putting the wireless card of the n900 into master mode?15:55
lizardoMece: I just added some notes to http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/HildonDesktop#Testing_the_example15:55
lizardoMece: basically, I believe your widget filename is not a valid one15:55
lizardoMece: not sure why it worked for your for so long :)15:55
Mecethe - ?15:55
lizardoMece: yes.. try replacing it with underscore15:56
Mecelizardo, ok. i changed it from _ to - because garage wouldn't allow _ hehe.15:56
lizardoMece: I refer to the .py file name specifically15:57
lizardoMece: your project name of course does not matter :)15:57
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Mecelizardo, yeah. I wanted consitency :)15:57
satmdmh, for some obscure reason the cam app stores temporary data on the emmc15:58
lizardoMece: the Python widget loader does something similar to "import <widget_base_name>"15:58
lizardoMece: and this does not work for files with minus on their names15:58
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crashanddie_nion: there's a thread on tmo discussing it15:59
Mecelizardo, I'll just make it comicwidget. can't go wrong with that..15:59
DocScrutinizerheadset jack output is so "optimized for earphones" (bass extremely over emphasized) it's almost useless for playback via home stereo :-(15:59
crashanddie_nion: there's a guy who's been working on getting the n900 act as an access point, so I guess the answer is yes15:59
Mecelizardo, thank you very much for the help.15:59
DocScrutinizerI.E we *need* equalizer audio applet15:59
lizardoMece: my suggestion: don't worry much about the widget file name, it does not appear to the users ;) (just the description on the .desktop file) , also remember to change the file name on the .desktop file accordingly15:59
_nioncrashanddie: you've got a link handy? in theory there's not much to do if you manage to get the card into master mode, but it seems the driver is rejecting this16:00
Mecelizardo, will do. going offline again (conserving batteries)16:00
lizardoMece: if that still does not work, make sure to notify us either on the #pymaemo channel or on the pymaemo-developers mailing list16:00
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crashanddie_nion: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3091616:01
_nionthx!16:01
* DocScrutinizer winks at crashanddie while listening to "Lucretia my Reflection"16:02
Stskeepsheh, haven't listened to SoM for a while16:02
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: ?16:02
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: just recalled your last(?) /kick16:03
DocScrutinizer:-P16:03
crashanddieah, lol16:03
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: D.A.F "Der Mussolini" makes a nice ringtone for me ;-)16:09
tganot a chance grabbing the sound device16:09
tgaquestion: what console sound mixer can I use?16:09
tgaand also, how can I dump sound input to a file?16:09
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ShadikkaGot my N900 back \o/ New display and touch panel.16:10
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DocScrutinizertga: alsamixer?16:10
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tgaDocScrutinizer: can't see it in the default sources16:10
ShadikkaAnd amusingly enough, the top part of the cover is on the wrong way, so the Nokia logo that should be on upper left (when in landscape mode) is upside down in the bottom right :D16:11
SpeedEvilShadikka: what was wrong with it?16:11
SpeedEvilShadikka: doesn't that mean the mic is covered?16:11
SpeedEviloh - no16:11
ShadikkaI think it might mean :P16:11
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Shadikkaso I might go back to complain a bit.16:12
DocScrutinizertga: no idea. It's installed here by default I guess. alsamixer -c016:12
Kegetyssell it as an unique collectors item16:12
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ShadikkaBut anyway, it was probably a connector problem or something, considering that I got a strange interference-like stuff on the display that looked a lot like when a DVI connector is a bit loose on a monitor.16:12
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tgaDocScrutinizer: maemo 5?16:12
DocScrutinizertga: yup16:13
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: as long as it's the frame only, then np. if the N900 engraving is wrong way as well, then "Nokia, we got a problem"16:14
tgadiablo here16:14
DocScrutinizertga: ooh16:15
* tga is trying to get some new life into a N80016:15
tgait's either that or ebay16:15
DocScrutinizertga: confirmed, no alsamixer on diablo16:15
tgaI could use any pointers about dealing with sound from the command line16:16
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tgasetting the volume, choosing a recording device, recording audio16:16
tgaall I can do now is play stuff16:16
DocScrutinizertga: well for N800 the choice of audio sources is rather limited anyway16:17
DocScrutinizertga: check recorder app16:17
ShadikkaDocScrutinizer: It's the frame only, the N900 engraving is the correct way.16:17
tybolltmsn users on n900?16:17
DocScrutinizeriirc it kinda works on diablo16:17
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Meceis there a meta package with the stuff needed to create a deb from source on the device? A python app.16:19
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tgaeasy: Depends: lightblue1 (>= 0.3.1-1osso1) but it is not installable16:20
tgahmm16:20
lizardoMece: just for your own use of to add to debian/control ?16:21
tgais there a way to run .install files from the command line?16:21
lizardoMece: if just for your use (to facilitate your work), try installing "maemo-python-device-env"  (from extras-devel)16:21
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bobbob1016I'm going to be looking at getting a used N810 today.  Can anyone suggest what I should look at, as in what usually goes bad on the N810 so I know what to look for?16:22
jophishis there any way to modify the headers sent from the default fremantle browser, specifically to add pragma:no-cache and Cache-Control: no-cache16:22
lizardoMece: this package should not be added to debian/control16:22
tgaknowing myself, look at its corners for major bumps16:22
Mecelizardo, I wanted to upload a new deb to garage to allow my friend to install the app.16:22
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Mecelizardo, I just want to do a 'debian/rules binary' to create a deb on the device.16:25
DocScrutinizertga: mc is quite versatile (managing al kinda filetypes)16:25
lizardoMece: hmm, have you tried installed the package I mentioned ?   also "dpkg-dev" might help16:26
lizardoMece: but I haven't tried that16:26
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DocScrutinizerbobbob1016: got 2 new N810 for ~220EUR each. One has a weak contact on the power receptacle by now16:28
bobbob1016tga: I'm guessing "look for bumps" was for me?  I know external stuff, I know to check the slider and keyboard, not sure what else.16:28
DocScrutinizerbobbob1016: kbd printing wears on heavy usage16:28
Mecelizardo, didn't do it yet, just wanted to make sure that it was clear what I wanted to do. Is it a big package? my rootfs is rather low on space...16:28
tgaDocScrutinizer: that gives me hope of selling my N800 for >100EUR16:28
bobbob1016DocScrutinizer I found one on craigslist for $75 (he said $10 off since it's like 30 miles south)16:29
javispedromoorning16:29
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DocScrutinizermoo javispedro16:29
tgahow do I run an .install file from the command line?16:29
lizardoMece: I really don't know... if you are low on space , better not installing metapackages then ;)16:30
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lizardoMece: what errors you are having ATM when running debian/rules binary ?16:30
Mecelizardo, ok.16:30
Mecelizardo, permission denied, as root no less.16:31
lizardoMece: you need to run it either as root or using "fakeroot" (I don't know if fakeroot is available on the device16:31
Mecedoh16:32
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tgawoot, easy is teh rules16:32
tgaall I ever wanted for dealing with hardware16:32
Mecelizardo, I actually have scratchbox ready on my server for remote packaging :)16:33
lizardoMece: much better :)16:33
Mecelizardo, yep :)16:33
lizardoMece: if you really are both (1) low on storage space and (2) need to sabe battery, creating packages on the device is not the best option , I think :)16:34
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Mecelizardo, turns out there are outlets for every seat on this train, so it's ok now :)16:36
javispedroah.. so where's that "slap tmo user" application?16:37
Mecejavispedro, :D indeed.16:38
* RST38h moos at javispedro16:38
javispedromorning RST38h16:38
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RST38hjavis: tmo users playing smart again? =)16:39
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javispedroas usual. today we're back at "the hardware sucks, it's not as smooth as the idealized iphone". and also that one user  who doesn't know what "-testing" is and just want apps _again_ .16:40
RST38hjavis: why are they buing those N900s at the first place?16:40
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javispedrowho knows16:41
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zaheermsame people who buy tricycles and complain about the lack of a 4th wheel16:42
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tybolltjavispedro: ? :) IIRC it's the same chip as in the iphone 3GS, innit?16:42
* tybollt shrugs16:42
* RST38h suggests a hunting expedition to tmo16:43
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javispedrotybollt: it's not exactly the "same chip" -- some parts of both chips designs are common (a8, sgx) but that's about it.16:43
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* tybollt provides RST38h w/ the just the right rifles16:43
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javispedrotybollt: actually, it's not even the same sgx. the iphone's one is a bit faster.16:44
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DocScrutinizersorry, but how would I delete a single song from actual playlist of mediaplayer? (or generally edit playlist beyond adding new songs to end of list?)16:44
RST38hahhahaha16:45
tybolltjavispedro: *shrug* :)16:45
RST38hDocScrut: You do not, it is a bug :)16:45
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: cant you just touch and hold on the song then choose delete or remove from playlist?16:45
DocScrutinizerRST38h: thanks for confirming that16:45
hrwDocScrutinizer: maybe will be fixed in harmattan16:46
RST38hShould hopefully be fixed in PR1.216:46
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: no such menu entry16:46
Mecegaah! who put all these tunnels here? keep loosing connection.16:47
tybolltRST38h: there will _be_ a PR1.2?16:47
DocScrutinizeris canola any better?16:47
javispedroyes.16:47
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mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: then I must be thinking of something else...16:48
* mtnbkr picks up his N900 to look16:48
hrwtybollt: there were rumours that there will event something after PR1.216:48
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: maybe for stored playlists16:48
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javispedroPR1.2 is confirmed; PR1.3 is "probable" IMO; PR1.4 is "possible" :)16:49
* tybollt found out why his phone would constantly "stick" in portraite after having used the phone part ...16:49
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: ahhh no... I was mistaken... there are three options only... "remove this song" is not one of them... sorry!16:49
tybolltit's that silly "broken glass" app that makes it "stick" :)16:49
tybolltuninstall that -> no problem16:50
mtnbkrYES!  the Imap bug I reported was FIXED... Now the waiting for next update begins... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=857416:51
povbotBug 8574: Subfolders of Zimbra IMAP server not appearing/not available16:51
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, there's a PR2 in there.16:51
javispedrointeresting16:52
mtnbkrThen I will be able to actually USE the email app16:52
RST38hhrw: Extinction event?16:54
* DocScrutinizer wonders when - if at all - nokia/maemo will consider to publish new versons of their *own* crap in maemo-devel. For users like mtnbkr16:55
javispedrobtw great job with MWKN16:56
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RST38hDoc: No.16:56
javispedroin fact the first piece of news I wasn't aware of was MWKN being online16:56
javispedropretty ironic :)16:56
libbenwhat media player is it in maemo?16:56
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javispedroso, here you have: http://www.mwkn.net16:56
libbeni want to add more stations thru xml file and ssh16:56
RST38hjavis: I still do not understand why haven't they chosen some catchier site name16:56
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lopzhi ;)16:57
javispedroRST38h: because I guess the target audience is devs instead of Oct2009ers16:57
* mtnbkr liikes the "newspapery" look of MWKN16:57
DocScrutinizerRST38h: "No." means exactly what?16:57
* javispedro MWKN --> bookmarks16:58
viukkisexactly as catchy as american radio station names16:58
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: Kinds of bums me out that I need to wait for a firmware release to fix that mail app.    Too bad there is not a Thunderbird for Maemo5  :)16:59
javispedromtnbkr: isn't the mail app open?16:59
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RST38hDoc: No, Nokia will not place betas of its firmware into -devel16:59
javispedromtnbkr: I've pulled some of the "fixed in fremantle" tinymail fixes for my n81016:59
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GeneralAntillesmtnbkr, go build the requisite packages.17:00
DocScrutinizerRST38h: is there a good rationale for that policy?17:00
RST38hjavis: Oh, interesting, so they bet on Oct2009ers being unable to memorize four consonants in a row? ;)17:00
GeneralAntillesmtnbkr, the source is available.17:00
mtnbkrjavispedro: the dev in that thread told me that I'd need to do some "tricky" stuff that might break the next update... I guess I didn;t tell him my extensive level of experience in *nix etc. ;)17:00
RST38hDoc: Of course not.17:00
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, because that's not how their release process works.17:00
javispedroRST38h: you'd be surprised =)17:00
DocScrutinizerRST38h: aaah ok then17:00
RST38hDoc: Like it would have to be required...17:00
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, and you can hardly expect the devs to invest their own free time in pushing packages.17:00
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RST38hjavis: Will they create "How to access weekly news" thread now?17:01
javispedromtnbkr: so, backup and give it a try.17:01
mtnbkrGeneralAntilles: I would love to!  Is there a URL for the maemo-specifc steps etc to do it?  (I know htere is, but just looking for a URL) :)17:01
DocScrutinizerso let me rephrase:17:01
javispedromtnbkr: that's why I often say the "no more updates" situation of the N810 is bliss. I get to decide what fixes I want for the OSS apps bugs.17:01
javispedros/what/which17:01
tybolltmtnbkr: hmm that's an interesting pov...17:01
* DocScrutinizer wonders when - if at all - nokia/maemo product managers will consider to publish new versons of their *own* crap in maemo-devel. For users like mtnbkr17:01
mtnbkrjavispedro: yeah nice.17:01
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tybolltmtnbkr: I've done some thinking along those lines...17:02
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, likely never.17:02
DocScrutinizerack17:02
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, unless somebody higher up decides that that's how things should be done.17:02
javispedroDocScrutinizer: easy answer. They will never do that for closed source packages, and they're already doing for (some) OSS packages (see gitorius)17:02
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, there are too many goddamn Symbian people in Maemo Devices for things to ever really be sane.17:02
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tybolltmtnbkr: like the built in apps that are seemlessly integrated into Hildon or a stand alone app that has its own gui but is ever so much more tested and proven to work?17:03
DocScrutinizerI see17:03
* GeneralAntilles has been on the receiving end of their culture shock too many times.17:03
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GeneralAntillesWe'd be better off if Nokia had stuck to hiring out of open source communities. . . .17:03
RST38hNokia already does that17:04
javispedrothis culture shock is also present in the "user side of the fence", see tmo.17:04
GeneralAntillesRST38h, they also pull in a ton of S60 people, too.17:04
RST38hJust count how many little OSS-based companies maemo Devices outsource to17:04
GeneralAntillesRST38h, which is where the problem lies.17:04
RST38hGeneral: These are mostly managers / UI people, right?17:04
javispedro... Ovi Maps people :)17:04
RST38hOvi Maps is separate17:04
GeneralAntillesand Ovi Store17:04
tybolltgrrr17:04
GeneralAntillesBut, yeah, lots of managers.17:04
tybolltovi shitshow :(17:04
tybolltpisses me off17:05
DocScrutinizeryay, what did I do?? :-P17:05
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LuciusMarehello17:05
LuciusMarewhy n900 cant have multitouch? i heard that resistive touchscreens can support multitouch...17:06
DocScrutinizeror, maybe "what I've done?"17:06
GeneralAntillesLuciusMare, resistive can support algorithmic two-touch.17:06
javispedrocue "today in MWKN" jokes.... "symbian vs maemo war escalates"17:06
SpeedEvilLuciusMare: It can.17:06
GeneralAntillesLuciusMare, multi-touch resistive is a separate technology.17:06
GeneralAntillesSee Stantum.17:06
LuciusMareah17:06
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, nuke them from orbit.17:06
SpeedEvilLuciusMare: it however requires a specially engineered resistive touchscreen, which is not in the n90017:06
LuciusMareaw17:06
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare: they can, but only with a modified hw-driver to support this17:06
LuciusMareaw again.17:07
SpeedEvilit's the hardware - not only the driver hardware17:07
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* SpeedEvil wants SAW17:07
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: it's the R probing for each plane that's not inplemented in standard driver hw17:07
LuciusMarewhat does "algoritmic two touch" mean anyway?17:07
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tybolltLuciusMare++17:08
Mecehmm.. i managed to lock the git repo when i got disconnected while doing a git push. anyone know how to complete the push or remove the lock?17:08
tybolltwhat the hell does that mean :)17:08
GeneralAntillesLuciusMare, meaning it can detect a second touch software-side.17:08
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javispedroI _love_ the MWKN writing style: "The post contains lots more information, but boils down to "wait until the Maemo 6 alpha SDK is released". Those who think (hope?) that Maemo 6 will be made available for existing devices took this ambivalence as a further sign of hope; those who remember the transition from the 770 to N800 or N810 to N900 took it as further evidence that Maemo 6 will mean a new device;"17:08
GeneralAntillesSo if you place one finger, then place a second finger, it can tell approximately where that second finger is.17:08
GeneralAntillesWhich is not quite the same thing as proper multitouch.17:08
LuciusMareoh.17:08
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SpeedEvilAs you can't detect subsequent motion of the fingers17:08
Stskeepsjavispedro: at alpha sdk they announce nokia bought out apple and we're all wswitching to iphone os17:09
Stskeeps:P17:09
SpeedEviland you only get an approximate indication of where the seperate touch is17:09
javispedroStskeeps: as I said a few months ago, for "Inverna" to be "as surprising as Harmattan" they are switching to E17.17:09
LuciusMarethat sucks :(17:09
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javispedrorewriting the media player again.17:10
tybolltjavispedro: this is a joke right, E17?17:10
GeneralAntillesLuciusMare, basically, you end up with a point between the two touch points.17:10
GeneralAntillesLuciusMare, and you can find the vector to guess where the second touch point is.17:10
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javispedrotybollt: of course not! =)17:10
SpeedEviland where along the line along the two touchpoints you are depends on pressure, touch area, and the wind over dubai.17:10
DocScrutinizera rough guess though17:10
LuciusMaretybollt: e17 is perfectly fine17:11
SpeedEvils/you are/the touch is reported/17:11
LuciusMareSpeedEvil: hah17:11
Stskeepsjavispedro: no, worse!, - moving back to gtk17:11
Stskeeps:P17:11
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tybolltjavispedro: U G H!17:11
LuciusMare~s/hah/meh/17:11
LuciusMareaw, i thought infobot can do regexps17:11
SpeedEvilshades of OM.17:11
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SpeedEvilGTK->QT->...17:12
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, pish, they're porting Davlik.17:12
javispedroThey're going to reveal they didn't have time to rewrite the Media Player in Qt and as such, Harmattan is a mix of Gtk/Qt code.17:12
StskeepsGTK->QT->E17, you mean17:12
SpeedEvilStskeeps: yeah17:12
LuciusMareSpeedEvil: and,current state? if it detects this broad touch, it ignores it?17:12
GeneralAntillesand based on the Harmattan mockups, the entire OS will consist of Android widgets.17:12
SpeedEvilLuciusMare: it detects it - but it interprets it as a touch movement - not a new touch17:13
wazdhttp://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=62379217:13
tybolltjavispedro: I find it hard to grasp, there's olready GTK and QT, why bring even more bloat? What a mess :)17:13
LuciusMarehm17:13
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare: true MT on R-ts involves sensing the reduction of R over one plane, when a part of the distance between upper and lower end ist "shorted" by two distant touchpoints creating a bypass via the 2nd plane17:13
javispedroSo we get to keep the osso_rss_reader app, with the non-finger friendly buttons and menus, in Harmattan! yay!17:13
GeneralAntillestybollt, sarcasm detector failure. ;)17:13
SpeedEvilAlong with the next upgrade comes an extra RAM chip, and a soldering station.17:13
LuciusMarezing17:13
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Stskeepsjavispedro: maemoblocks should never go away17:14
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LuciusMareand a pair of @nokias17:14
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare: current hw has no means to sense this R reduction17:14
SpeedEvilStskeeps: it should get a score though.17:14
SpeedEvilStskeeps: highscore17:14
javispedroI wonder if Nokia will license the "Tetris" trademark some day (Palm did)17:14
LuciusMareDocScrutinizer: thank you for explanation17:14
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DocScrutinizeryw17:14
SpeedEvilMy most beloved russian export.17:15
LuciusMareand anyway, i heard some rumors...apple patented "mt" didnt it?17:15
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javispedroSpeedEvil: "The Tetris Company LLC, aka TTC, is based in Hawaii..."17:16
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare: nope17:16
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tybolltIt's gotten to the point that when I farted yesterday, I imediately went on the net to find out whom I should pay a royalty to for farting...17:17
LuciusMarei think i heard it  in an article where was explained why google (htc) didnt include the mt driver in g117:17
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javispedroApple couldn't patent MT since it was happening way before Apple though about the iphone. they have some patents on some of the gesture gimmicks iirc.17:18
LuciusMareah17:18
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: exactly17:18
javispedrowhich, if any, should be software patents.17:18
DocScrutinizersynaptics does MT on their touchpads17:19
javispedroand that resistive screens company (trustum? trantum? trantor?)17:19
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RST38hjavis: So if Apple has no patent on mt, why mt is still not being used everywhere?17:19
tybollthttp://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2007/0262964.html17:20
javispedro*sees backlog* stantum.17:20
LuciusMarejavispedro: traitor, i guess17:20
tybolltRST38h: because potentially - microsoft has the patent ()see url above :)17:20
LuciusMarescrew patents17:20
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RST38hinteresting17:21
RST38htybollt: It says "tablet pc" though17:21
LuciusMarehuh.17:21
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javispedrotybollt: that's a pretty nice thing to throw to an Apple user on the face, even if it were only 1% accurate (which I don't know).17:21
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LuciusMareMicrosoft tablet pc?17:22
tybolltRST38h: IANAL... wouldn't know how the law interprets the diff17:22
javispedro"here you have, Microsoft has the patent on multitouch!"17:22
javispedrooh man, I'd like to do that17:22
javispedro*thinks of the nearest apple fanboy*17:22
LuciusMarehaha17:22
tybolltjavispedro: calm down - that what I refered to is an application - AFAIK it has yet to be granted.17:22
bubill2009ÄêÈ«ÇòÖÇÄÜÊÖ»ú³ö»õÁ¿´ïµ½ÁË¿ÕÇ°µÄ 1.738ÒÚ²¿£¬½Ï2008ÄêµÄ1.511ÒÚ²¿Ôö³¤ÁË15%¡£17:22
LuciusMarebubill: i agree17:23
tybolltwhich is what I said _potemtially_17:23
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jaskaline noise?17:23
tybollts/what/why/17:23
javispedrotybollt: and that is what I said "even if it's only 1% accurate :)"17:23
javispedros/what/why17:23
javispedroheh.17:23
RST38hjavispedro: Just seed it on tmo17:23
tybolltdamit, stop making the same typo I do ;-D17:23
javispedroactually, that wasn't intentional.17:23
DocScrutinizerRST38h: when you got a patent on the knot on shoe straps, I patent same thing on my boots :-P17:23
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RST38hjavispedro: And transdickify them as they come17:24
LuciusMareactually, does patenting gestures make sense?17:24
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare: does patents make sense?17:24
jaskagotta patent the middle finger gesture17:25
DocScrutinizerLOL17:25
LuciusMare!17:25
* RST38h patents sense17:25
* LuciusMare patents patenting17:25
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LuciusMareha!17:25
amigadaveLuciusMare: IBM already did that :P17:25
LuciusMaredamn17:25
DocScrutinizerrotfl17:25
javispedro"We claim: 1. A handheld computer comprising: a CPU executing a palm operating system in which executable programs are directly accessed from a permanent data storage in a database format; where said database format applies equally to data files which are formatted in palm file formats."17:25
* satmd patents patenting patents17:25
inzprior art never stopped corporations17:25
LuciusMarebut17:25
LuciusMarepatents make sense17:26
LuciusMareactuall think of spending years on project17:26
* mtnbkr patents recursive patenting of patents17:26
satmdnot in IT17:26
LuciusMarethen here comes joe r random, reads your data and gets shitload of money17:26
tybollthow did the software patent thing ever play out here in EU anyway? There is software patents now?17:26
satmdcurrently not allowed but the local patent offices do it anyway17:27
LuciusMares/data/research/17:27
* DocScrutinizer patents recursion and boolean logic17:27
javispedrotybollt: they're being granted, but no sane judicial system is going to force you to license them17:27
LuciusMareDocScrutinizer: 0!17:27
SpeedEvil`ACTA...17:27
tybolltSpeedEvil: please don't curse, sir.17:27
LuciusMarehuh17:27
LuciusMarebusybox's tar can't untar bzip?17:27
* satmd compares patents on software with keeping ideas to yourself but saying eh beh, this is how it works, now pay me17:28
bubillLuciusMare ,are you chinese?17:28
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DocScrutinizer~nuke busybox17:28
MohammadAGLuciusMare, err, I've untar-red a bzip before17:28
javispedroinfobot: ping17:28
tybollt~nuke tybollt17:28
LuciusMareweird.17:28
javispedroyou killed infobot!17:28
LuciusMarehe apparently nuked him17:29
MohammadAG~curse patents17:29
MohammadAGyep, it's broken :p17:29
DocScrutinizerchanop may invite17:29
LuciusMarebubill: no,why?17:29
inzn900 doesnt even have bzip2 by default17:29
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MohammadAGinz it does here17:30
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LuciusMaretar: invalid option -- j17:30
MohammadAGi wanted to install it and it said it was already installed17:30
LuciusMarehuh17:30
tybolltso pipe your tar/bzip command , is it really that hard?17:30
MohammadAGLuciusMare, bzip2 -d (filename)17:30
* tybollt hands out bongs17:31
inzmoha  ad, maybe it was installed as a dependency for sth17:31
LuciusMarestand back, i thought its preinstalled17:31
MohammadAGbzip2 is preinstalled17:31
* DocScrutinizer smokes all his patents17:31
inzmoha, mine for sure doesnt have17:31
LuciusMareMohammadAG: i dont have it17:31
MohammadAGpreinstalled here17:32
DocScrutinizerbusybox crap17:32
MohammadAGjust used apt-get and it set it to manually installed17:32
MohammadAGbzip2 set to manually installed.17:32
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MohammadAGwith a bzip2 is already the newest version. before that17:32
MohammadAGtar -j didn't work for me though17:33
MohammadAG(-jxvf)17:33
RST38hPrototype Phone Shifts Weight and Thickness, Right In Your Hand [Concepts]17:33
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HiDDeNhi17:34
inzmoha, you dont happend to have installed easy-deb-chroot at any point?17:34
LuciusMarenow,again,please for us not really cli people, what is the whole pipe command?17:34
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inzpipe is not a command, its more like an operator17:34
LuciusMarehah17:35
LuciusMarei know17:35
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MohammadAGinz, i do17:35
LuciusMarebut i dont know how to use tar to accept from pipe17:35
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DocScrutinizer[2010-02-01 16:30:46] <tybollt> so pipe your tar/bzip command , is it really that hard?17:35
LuciusMareyes, i dont know how17:35
inzmohammad, well, thats the reason you have bzip217:35
MohammadAGLuciusMare, apt-get install bzip2 then do the command i typed17:35
ptmanLuciusMare, tar c . | tar xf -17:35
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ptmanLuciusMare, and man tar17:36
LuciusMarehah17:36
LuciusMareno man here17:36
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DocScrutinizercurse that17:36
mgedminthere are man pages on the web17:36
ptmanLuciusMare, use google, the net is full of man pages17:36
DocScrutinizernot even mandb in any repo17:36
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LuciusMarewait,how come it reads correctly even if there is not specified to decompress it?17:37
Meceok, got a new comicwidget deb out. Anyone wanna try it?17:37
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DocScrutinizerptman: that's not a googlephone17:37
Jaco2khi all17:37
LuciusMareDocScrutinizer: dont say googlephone's got man17:38
ptmanDocScrutinizer, ok, so use yahoo, or bing17:38
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DocScrutinizergooglephone is an always-online system - I want manpages when in the outback17:39
tybolltDocScrutinizer: I found that sad to be honest... would've loved to have man pages on there... very nifty17:39
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GeneralAntillestybollt, they take up valuable space.17:39
Mecewell if someone's interested, here is the widget: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=127617:39
Stskeepsmanpages take up a shitload of space17:39
Stskeeps:P17:39
Jaco2kcan anyone tell me the quick way to downgrade Conversations from 0.8 to 0.7? if I totally remove it and then install again 0.7, will it keep my settings?17:39
GeneralAntillesFor something that maybe 1 in 1000 customers might ever even use.17:39
tybolltGeneralAntilles: optify, then :)17:39
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: ooh yeah, so much of my valuable 32G17:40
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GeneralAntillesMore complicated than that.17:40
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: 256mb, thank you very much17:41
Stskeeps:P17:41
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DocScrutinizerbah17:41
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CorsacMek: comics can be set to whatever we want?17:41
Corsacor is there a fixed list?17:41
DocScrutinizeranyway not having it it tols or devel even is really mean17:42
DocScrutinizertools repo17:42
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DocScrutinizerjr@halley:~> du /usr/share/man/   # 55M     /usr/share/man/17:52
Stskeeps55m is a shitload on a mobile device better used for features17:52
DocScrutinizerthat's a full desktop system17:52
SpeedEvilno, it's not.17:53
SpeedEvilIn the context of a 32G /17:53
mgedmin/ is 256 mb on n90017:54
Stskeepsbut it isn't a 32g / ..17:54
mgedminI'm kinda surprised docpurge doesn't purge /usr/share/man17:54
mgedmin... or maybe it does?17:54
Stskeepsit does17:54
mgedminjust noticed the @halley17:54
mtnbkranyone else use the Maemo mail app and wander why OH WHY sent messages are not copied to the server and only kept on the device?17:54
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Stskeepsi liked chinook's mail client better.17:54
furunk3lmtnbkr, yep17:55
mgedminI kinda liked the last ukbdcreator changelog: "add examples and format documentation in /usr/share/doc/..."17:55
mtnbkrfurunk3l: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875117:55
povbotBug 8751: Sent items should go into Sent folder on SERVER17:55
mtnbkr;)17:55
siriusnovaactually i wonder why the Maemo Mail app doesnt download all the email when using imap and has to reload the mail through an internet connection all the freaking time17:55
siriusnovabecause atm the mail app sucks17:55
furunk3li want imap-idle17:55
furunk3lor profimail :p17:55
siriusnovawith 32gb of storage you would think you can keep all your mail on the phone17:55
siriusnovalike an iphone17:55
mtnbkras much as I HATE to say it, The Apple iPhone IMAP client "gets it right"17:55
furunk3lsiriusnova, thats not the point17:55
siriusnovayeap17:55
furunk3li heavily use the phone for my company mails17:56
SpeedEvilMaking it configurable is the right way17:56
furunk3lwith imap you just download the sent mails to your desktop computer17:56
javispedrowell, use POP3 =)17:56
siriusnovabut there needs to be a setting for downloading email messages and headers17:56
furunk3land you are all set17:56
siriusnovapop3 wipes out the mailbox no?17:57
furunk3ljavispedro, i dont want all my company mails on the phone17:57
furunk3li want them on the server17:57
furunk3land synced17:57
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DocScrutinizerhah I know, I'll send me all the manpages per mail :-P17:57
mtnbkrsiriusnova: not necessarily. most POP3 apps offer a "delete mail after downloading" option or somesuch17:57
* DocScrutinizer giggles insanely17:57
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: put them in your Sent folder.17:57
siriusnovabut doesnt the iphone mail app use imap17:58
* mtnbkr ducks17:58
furunk3limap-idle is the way to go17:58
siriusnovaand manage to have local copies of your mail17:58
siriusnovahow does that work17:58
furunk3limplement imap-idle in modest17:58
mtnbkrsiriusnova: I htink you can choose on iPhone POP or IMAP... I OLNY and ALWAYS use IMAP though.17:58
javispedroagain, modest is oss.17:58
siriusnovame too17:58
DocScrutinizerIMAP is as insaner as http-manpages17:59
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: modest is crap :-D18:00
javispedrooh, it all depends on what features you want18:00
DocScrutinizerack18:00
DocScrutinizerjust kidding18:01
javispedroI still like the UI so on N810 I ended up heavily patching it18:01
javispedrodidn't have facepalming issues on the N900 yet with it so i'm still using the pr1.0 one18:01
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mtnbkrjavispedro: I did... Mail currently is unuseable to me:  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=857418:03
povbotBug 8574: Subfolders of Zimbra IMAP server not appearing/not available18:03
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DocScrutinizerI hate the missing option to select different "from" for same account. For mailaccounts with multiple aliases18:04
javispedromtnbkr: ask him what kind of problems he meant. if it's anything other than "the modest data store format has changed" I'd say patch and build.18:05
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mtnbkrand then I find out that sent messages are not copied to server... sigh...  They really should have thought the email app out before release.18:05
javispedroDocScrutinizer: ha. I use fake pop3 accounts on my server for that =)18:06
mtnbkrjavispedro: will do .   goona ask for the exact steps after expl,aining that I am an experienced Linux/Unix admin ;)18:06
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tybollthttp://gizmodo.com/5302097/giz-bill-nye-explains-the-iphone-3gss-oleophobic-screen/gallery/18:08
javispedrohttp://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2009/07/iphonegrease_01.jpg find the 9 differences18:10
javispedros/find/spot18:10
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SplasPoodHrm, are there any maemo RSS/Atom readers that'll do notifications on new feed items?18:12
RST38hjavispedro: I guess you have to try with olive oil to see the difference...18:13
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javispedroor apple fan boy dna in your oil excreting cells...18:16
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* GeneralAntilles expects it's time to give in and just CC on bugs like a normal person.18:17
w00tGeneralAntilles: seems sane!18:17
RST38hjavispedro: you mean, even their excretions are slick and shiny?18:17
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GeneralAntillesw00t, for a while I was trying to track all new changes, but there's just too much stuff that I don't care about.18:17
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w00tGeneralAntilles: frankly, I don't think there are enough hours in the day18:18
GeneralAntillesw00t, there used to be plenty.18:18
w00tyeah..18:18
w00tbut things have kinda grown a little18:18
javispedroRST38h: :)18:18
GeneralAntillesw00t, but then Fremantle hit and the number of incoming reports quadrupled.18:18
w00tI used to be able to track talk without spending 6 hours a day on there, too18:19
GeneralAntillesLast 24 hours we have 32 UNCONFIRMED reports.18:19
GeneralAntilles226 bugs changed in the last 48 hours.18:19
* w00t nods18:19
GeneralAntillesw00t, well, the good news with Talk is that most of it isn't worth paying any attention to. ;)18:19
w00t(that rate of incoming reports is a bit worrying, are they all being triaged?)18:19
w00tpsh18:19
RST38hGeneral: Need a cool Flash UI to see those18:19
GeneralAntillesw00t, no.18:19
w00tI'll have you know I used to enjoy talk18:19
GeneralAntillesw00t, Andre's very good at picking them all up EVENTUALLY18:19
w00thrrm.18:20
andre__no, they are not all triaged...18:20
GeneralAntillesw00t, with Talk, I can open up New Posts in the morning, go through 8 pages of threads and maybe open 2 or 3 in tabs.18:20
GeneralAntillesw00t, we really need more triagers. . . .18:20
w00tGeneralAntilles: is that a hint? :-(18:20
GeneralAntillesw00t, *g*18:20
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w00tactually, I do have one bug I can close, because it's useless keeping it open18:20
* w00t finds it18:21
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Stskeepsw00t, take over as default assignee for mer bugs18:21
Stskeeps:18:21
w00tStskeeps: sure, if you don't mind me pestering you 24x718:21
Stskeepsw00t: you already do18:21
w00tStskeeps: good point. go ahead! :P18:21
Sargun_Screen   /j #ubu18:22
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Stskeepsdo we have one or two bugmasters atm, btw?18:22
Sargun_Screenerrgle.18:22
GeneralAntillesOne18:22
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GeneralAntillesKarsten's on loan.18:22
Stskeepscos Karsten seems mentioned at times18:23
Stskeepsk18:23
pupnikand he deserves a cookie18:23
GeneralAntillespupnik, no cookies until 3.4 is live!18:23
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andre__Karsten is in the background currently, as I want him to fully concentrate on getting 3.4 running18:24
andre__so, yes, he is around, but not very visible18:24
andre__once we have 3.4 it's time to see how to continue18:24
Stskeeps:nod: good to have someone cracking on the technical side18:25
andre__oh yeah, because I suck with such stuff18:25
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w00tandre__: you might not suck, but your time is probably more valuable elsewhere18:25
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w00t..at least I think that's a more positive way of viewing it ;)18:26
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andre__w00t, hehe18:26
* w00t takes a look at recent reports in bugs.18:26
GeneralAntillesIf anybody wants to be a winner, save yourself a search like this https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?bug_file_loc=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&chfield=%5BBug%20creation%5D&chfieldfrom=1d18:26
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GeneralAntillesand see if you can't poke at 5 of those bugs a day.18:26
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javispedrodoesn't work! doesn't work!18:27
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w00tI have no idea why, but that failed horribly18:27
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GeneralAntillesHrm, works here.18:27
GeneralAntillesBugzilla URL cleansing still confuses me.18:27
GeneralAntillesWell, UNCONFIRMED bugs whose [Bug creation] date was in the last 24 hours.18:28
w00tagreed18:28
javispedrobah, the quips are more boring every day18:28
javispedro"hi" is not a quip18:28
javispedroquipsquad!! where are thou!!18:28
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javispedronoooooooooooo18:29
javispedronot even gettext crossbuilds18:29
javispedrothis is plain sick18:29
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pupniki love deps like gettext18:29
pupnikshould be here somewhere18:30
pupnikbut i cant fix such things for builder18:30
javispedroi am trying http://gentooarm.powderluv.org/ and see if I can get to the 50th package without having to poke the ebuilds18:30
pupnikneat javispedro .. but why18:32
javispedrocause I want a better chroot than debian's armv418:33
ali1234javispedro: there are binaries available of that you know18:33
javispedrowithout nls (don't ask)18:34
hrwali1234: binaries are for pussies18:34
mtnbkrlol18:34
pupniki was tempted to play with chroot but it doesnt help maemo18:34
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hrwbuilding modest 3.2.x takes too much time18:34
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hrwI wonder about system-upgrades/ repo creation18:35
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ali1234javispedro: actually i'm not sure that's the same overlay18:35
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pupnikali1234: is anyone doing a gles psx plugin?18:42
ali1234no idea18:43
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ali1234i heard that 3d acceleration for the gpu does not help much with psx, cos it's so simple18:43
pupnikshit.  i hears some talk of it last year18:43
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ali1234it's certainly my experience with desktop emulators that the GL plugins are flaky, crashy, glitchy etc, and software is almost perfect emulation18:44
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Kajkoyou're right about psx18:44
ali1234i think i might have read it in a comment in the psx4all source :)18:44
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ali1234either that or some blog while looking for an arm dynarec18:45
hrwPreparing to replace modest 3.0.17-rc66+0m5 (using .../modest_3.2.13-0.hrw1_i386.deb) ...18:45
Zeddyanyone care to tell me how i get QT Network components installed on the n900?18:46
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woglindejo18:46
Zeddyi tried installing som qt4dev packages but no work.. :\18:46
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hrwZeddy: apt-cache search qt network18:46
DassuIs it normal that my ping to my AP is like "28ms"18:47
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DassuI tested it with my laptop in the same location and ping came out to be 0.5ms18:47
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Zeddylibqt4-maemo5-network-dbg18:48
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Dassualso on this network n900 has really slow connection speed in certain aspects18:48
Dassulike ssh takes years18:48
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Dassuoke, not years but like 5mins18:48
Zeddythats years in ssh language18:49
Zeddy:P18:49
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Dassugotta try to connect directly to the ip. Just in case it is the same server O_o18:49
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mtnbkrDassu: ssh from my wired desktop to my wifi N900 takes about <1 second18:49
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mtnbkrDassu: if you are ssh'ing OUT of the n900 to another machine it could be a simple reverse DNS issue causing what appears to be a long delay in connecting18:50
Dassuyeah, eeven to the AP the ssh takes a loing time O_o18:50
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Dassumtnbkr: Tried with the IP to18:51
Dassuo18:51
mtnbkrthat doe snto mappter. sounds like reverse dns. When you ssh to a server the server can be configured to do a reverse lookup of the IP you are coming from. If there is no mapping, this can sometimes cause the long delays you are describing18:52
Zeddyhrw, you rock..18:52
Zeddyi found the missing parts...18:52
mtnbkrs/doe snto mappter/does not matter/18:52
mtnbkrDassu: see if you can disable reverse DNS lookups on the servers/devices you are trying to ssh into18:52
Dassuoh18:54
DassuI'll try that18:54
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SpeedEvilIs there a chiming clock in the repos anywhere?18:55
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Dassumtnbkr: oke18:56
Dassumtnbkr: helped a lot18:56
Dassubut damnit18:56
DassuI dont have access to another box I use :D18:57
Dassuwait18:57
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Dassutesting...18:58
odin_seen t-tan18:59
Dassuits seems like it works if I have just used the browser O_o18:59
mtnbkrLooks like my IMAP Sent folder issues were already in the bugs database and I was directed to "vote" here for an appropriate possible fix:   http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/keep_sent_and_drafts_on_imap_server/?net_nemein_favourites_execute=fav&net_nemein_favourites_execute_for=18fca2043b5b11dea696b58b2eb67fd17fd1&net_nemein_favourites_url=/news/favorites/json/fav/org_maemo_brainstorm_idea_solution/18fca2043b5b11dea696b58b2eb67fd17fd1/19:00
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mtnbkrug19:00
mtnbkrsorry... tinyurl to follow19:00
Dassuh mm...19:00
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mtnbkrhttp://tinyurl.com/ydjuet719:01
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Dassuyeah...19:01
Dassuwtf19:01
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SpeedEvillol19:02
SpeedEvilcheck first and last solutions19:02
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mtnbkrDassu: it is also possible that the resolving library on the server caches negative lookups for a while which would explain that behavior19:02
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Dassuwell19:03
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mtnbkrSpeedEvil: Yep... I voted down all the others and then voted up #1 and #11 which are exactly the same thing :)19:03
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Dassumy connection works great if I launch the browser at the same time O_o19:04
Dassuotherwise it takes a minute19:04
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Dassuis it possible that the wlan is in power save?19:05
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mtnbkrSpeedEvil: any idea how much water brainstorm holds with Nokia?   I mean, seems like a lot of people (well 161 last time I clicked) want this IMAP sent folder thing fxed in a sensible manner... Does Nokia even care or pay attention to brainstorm?19:06
Dassuill disable the power save  just to check19:06
Damion2erk19:07
SpeedEvil Does Nokia even care or pay attention to brainstorm?19:08
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Dassuyeah19:08
Damion2I just typed halt before removing the battery instead of using the button and when I powered it back on it reset my date19:08
siriusnovanokia doesnt care about maemo19:08
siriusnova:p19:08
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mtnbkrsiriusnova: lol19:08
Damion2I wonder what other settings are lost :-/19:08
Dassuseeems to be faster with no power save19:08
SpeedEvilDamion2: type sync three times first :)19:08
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siriusnovamaemo is the red headed step child of Nokia, its better in every way but Symbian will always be Nokia's First Love so it gets the most attention19:09
mtnbkrand click your heels19:09
SpeedEvilshutdown -t 0 now -halt19:09
Damion2SpeedEvil: heh19:09
Damion2I don't know why it ran me through the localisation stfuf19:09
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Damion2I guess halt doesn't run the same rc stuff has a power down and so left some semaphore somewhere which made poweron think it was postreset19:09
Dassuoke19:10
mtnbkrDassu: hmm, I have power save enabled on mine, and it connects instantly to my server.19:10
Dassutake that back19:10
Myrttisiriusnova: maemo requires rough love, but it doesn't mean it will be any less loved ;-)19:10
DassuI take that back19:10
siriusnovaMyrtti19:10
siriusnovawhat are you doing here19:10
siriusnovaD:19:10
siriusnovaarent you supposed to be in buntuland19:10
siriusnova:p19:11
Dassuat first it connected fast19:11
tybolltI don't see why symbian has to be ! maemo19:11
tybolltlet them coexist19:11
Kajkoi hope guys at the top at Nokia push for Maemo to be their top os... to hell with Symbian19:11
tybolltsymbian has its niche19:11
tybolltno19:11
tybolltsymbian doesn't need to die19:11
Myrttisiriusnova: maemo is what I do for bread and a bottle of wine19:11
woglindewith qt's maemo and symbian port its easy to make apps for both19:11
siriusnovaoh19:11
Kajkonot saying die.... just make it for lower end devices19:12
tybolltKajko: that's what it is today :)19:12
Kajkoyes19:12
tybolltsymbian doesn't need less love... it's about maemo needing more love19:12
siriusnova^19:12
tybolltnow how do we convey this to espoo? :)19:13
Myrttitybollt: as long as symbian is their goose of golden eggs, it will be loved to keep laying golden eggs to fund maemo19:14
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Myrttitybollt: though, the birth of symbian foundation is a sign of a goose coup being rebuilt19:15
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tybolltanyway I long for the day when maemo becomes a ... non-enthusiast OS.19:16
Dassumtnbkr: Hmm, do you have static IP set?19:17
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mtnbkrDassu: no not on N90019:17
Dassuyeah.19:17
DassuAll the other networks work fine but I have static IP for this one19:17
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tybolltif you need static ip on your n900 - set it via dhcpd19:18
DassuI'm gonna keep on testing this19:18
mtnbkrDassu: and I just verified that I don't have a reverseDNS Ip mapping either, but 99.999% sure I have disbaled reverseDNS  lookups on my ssh server for the exact reason I mentioned. :)19:18
Dassumtnbkr: well. when I set power_save off19:18
hrwtybollt: no, symbian does not have its niche beacuse it is not niche product. maemo is niche product.19:18
Dassumtnbkr: It all works normally19:18
DassuO_o19:18
odin_Stskeeps, have you tried compiling latest kernel without https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797219:19
povbotBug 7972: Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found19:19
DassuI have tried that for like 10 times now19:19
mtnbkrInteresting. well, at least you have a "fix" :)19:19
Dassualso tried the medium power save19:19
Dassusame problem19:19
hrwodin_: you can build kernel without fiasco-gen19:19
odin_hrw, just not with dpkg-buildpackage19:20
hrwodin_: I do not use it19:20
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Stskeepsodin_: - a fix is in progress. but yes, with modification it is entirely possible.19:26
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woglindehms why garage accounts are not connected to talk19:30
lcukbecause single signon is not yet reached unity19:31
woglindelcuk nokia should hire another admin19:32
woglindefor maemo19:32
Stskeepsi suggest we clone X-Fade19:32
* johnsu01 is wondering about best practices for changelog, version numbers etc for packages ported from debian19:33
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woglindejohnsu01 debian-versionmaemao119:33
woglindeargs19:33
woglindemaemo119:33
hrwjohnsu01: debian: 2.3.4-5 so maemo: 2.3.4-5m119:33
woglindeat the and19:33
hrwor 2.3.4-5maemo119:33
Stskeepsjohnsu01: there's a policy19:33
woglindehrw m?19:33
woglindem suckz19:33
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hrwwoglinde: it does indeed - thats why nOkia uses it19:34
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woglindeold policy said maemo19:34
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johnsu01cool, glad I asked19:35
johnsu01whereabouts is the policy documented?19:35
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dprohi19:35
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woglindejohnsu01 somewhere in the wiki19:35
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hrwwoglinde: "modest 3.2.13-0.hrw1" is my way19:35
dprodoes anyone know where I can grab the data from the ambient light sensor ?19:36
woglindehttp://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging#Checking_Maemo_Packages19:36
woglindePorting an existing Debian package19:37
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lcukhrw thats cos you have a cool enough nick to make that practical19:37
dprooh and I tried the 2nd (front) camera with mplayer and gstreamer and it looks horrible, not webcam bad but a lot worse more like a wrongly configured webcam in almost complete darkness ...19:37
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SpeedEvildpro: try it in sunlight19:38
SpeedEvilOr with it within 20cm of a 100w bulb19:38
woglindeargs the pdf19:38
siriusnovais there a memo.org packages website19:38
siriusnovakind of packages.ubuntu.com19:38
woglindehas the 2008 version still19:38
siriusnovaa list of all packages19:38
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johnsu01woglinde: Thanks19:38
Myrttisiriusnova: surprisingly, yes19:38
dproSpeedEvil: ah so it is _that_ bad then ?19:38
Myrttino, hold on.19:38
siriusnovawhere?19:39
MyrttiI need coffee19:39
* dpro just had coffee :)19:39
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* lcuk pokes Myrtti 19:39
* Myrtti grunts, as her back is sore19:40
woglindeI nead bacon19:40
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lcuk:( Myrtti not good19:40
lcuki just had bacon and egg woglinde19:40
lcukwas lovely19:40
MyrttiI had my MRI. I feel lighter now. Specifically, 410€ lighter19:41
Myrtti*sniffles*19:41
derfFor an MRI?19:41
derfCheap!19:41
Myrttiyeah, it is19:41
tybolltonly in EU :)19:41
Myrttiit's also about half of the credit limit on my credit card19:42
hrwmri?19:42
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siriusnova410 euros for a MRI19:42
siriusnovaOUCH!19:42
SpeedEvilMagnetic resonance imagary.19:42
derfhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_resonance_imaging19:42
siriusnovai thought healthcare was free in Europe19:42
siriusnovaor something19:42
Myrttisiriusnova: list price before national health insurance reimbursement is 700€19:42
SpeedEvilMRI is a _beautiful_ application of maths.19:42
siriusnova:(19:42
tybolltsiriusnova: try an mri w/out insurance in .us, heh19:42
siriusnovaoh19:42
pupnik1100 for my mri19:42
siriusnovayikes19:42
pupnikthey are expensive machines19:43
Myrtti(and oh yes, this was a lower back/lumbar mri)19:43
pupnikwhat they find?19:43
SpeedEvilYou select a slice of tissue by applying the right magnetic field and gradient, then apply a pulse of RF to excite that tissue, then manipulate the gradients a bit - and you get an output RF in terms of frequency along one axis of the slice, and phase across the other.19:43
Myrttiremains to be seen, but most probably a slipped disc pinching a nerve19:44
GeneralAntillesMyrtti, ouch.19:44
SpeedEvil:/19:44
pupniki got fixed by surgery19:44
GeneralAntilleswazd, Marina came together really nicely.19:44
Myrttithe current diagnosis is M51.1, Lumbar and other intervertebral disc disorders with radiculopathy19:45
luke-jrpupnik: what was broken?19:45
Myrttibut for further planning of fixing whatever is broken, they need the MRI19:45
Myrttianyway19:45
MyrttiI saw a really purty blue theme for N900 today on my google reader ♥19:46
hrwMyrtti: marina one?19:49
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Myrttiprobably19:49
WizzupHas anyone changed the way his nokia does some mounts?19:53
* Wizzup personally doesn't like a /tmp/ of only 1mb19:53
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Stskeepsuse /var/tmp for that kinda stuff19:54
Markus23Wizzup: yes, its not very difficult to change mountpoints19:54
Wizzupok, because my app manager keeps telling me there is not enough space on the device when updating devel-extra19:54
Markus23does anyone know why the fstab is generated every boot?19:54
Markus23Wizzup: reboot first19:54
Markus23or do apt-get clean19:54
woglindeWizzup lol19:55
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woglinde /tmp has nothing to with it19:55
woglinde+do19:55
WizzupI figured, just noticed though19:55
WizzupSo what *does* cause this error?19:56
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timeless_mbphey19:56
timeless_mbpwhat do i install if i want a vpnc commandline client?19:56
woglindedpkg -L vpnc?19:57
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woglindeafter apt-get install vpnc?19:57
* dpro has to go 19:58
dprottyl19:58
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woglindeme too19:59
woglindetill later19:59
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odin_what hours of the day does timeless sleep ?20:05
timeless_mbpthe ones when no one notices :)20:05
odin_I recone you have just had a 4hrs nap20:05
aSIMULAtorvampire20:05
timeless_mbpnope, i'm working20:06
timeless_mbpwhich involves reviewing a very long powerpoint presentation20:06
ShadowJKdo you have flextime? :-)20:06
timeless_mbpi use it20:06
timeless_mbpwhether i have it is questionable20:06
w00ttimeless_mbp: that's the best variety20:06
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odin_you were also working at 04:57, 11:00, 12:4220:07
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timeless_mbpwhich local time were you using?20:08
* timeless_mbp guesses that's british20:08
odin_good 'ol GMT20:09
Myrtticrikey, where did the time go, it's 8 o'clock20:09
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odin_no its not.. its 6 o'clock... TV news time20:10
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timeless_mbpvpnc was built without openssl: Can't do hybrid or cert mode.20:11
timeless_mbp?20:11
lcukopenssl seems to be a crutch to a few programs20:11
lcukisnt git also built without it20:11
GeneralAntillesWe need to get the inter-site linking together. . . .20:13
w00tGeneralAntilles: what's wrong with it?20:14
timeless_mbpok, so i now have a vpnc which is totally useless20:14
timeless_mbpwhy?20:14
GeneralAntillesw00t, too many people are ending up on maemo.org who don't belong there.20:14
GeneralAntillesWe need to be directing them to the right place.20:14
w00tGeneralAntilles: mm. where are they coming from?20:14
GeneralAntillesEither maemo.nokia.com or Maemo @ Forum Nokia.20:14
GeneralAntillesGoogle, mostly, I suspect.20:14
GeneralAntillesBasically, we need to have a couple of links on the homepage at maemo.org at a minimum.20:15
w00tthe homepage itself could use a little work I think20:15
wazdGeneralAntilles: thx20:15
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w00texplaining what maemo (and maemo.org are) would be a very good start20:15
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GeneralAntillesWe need an Intro that isn't from early 2008.20:15
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w00t(yes, yes, /intro/, but that's out of date, and not the *front* page)20:16
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GeneralAntillesA paragraph like what's found on the subpages: http://maemo.org/community/20:16
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: time to get back in council and whip the community into shape20:16
GeneralAntillesand I think that would improve the look.20:16
w00tGeneralAntilles: exactly20:16
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, what, and set myself up to be RESPONSIBLE for things again? :P20:16
* GeneralAntilles LIKES only doing things when he fscking feels like it. *g*20:17
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: not feeling responsible or taking action on things seems to work for council members ;P20:17
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, oooh.20:17
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w00tStskeeps: *REOW*20:18
w00t:P20:18
Stskeepsreow?20:18
Stskeeps:P20:18
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, although another term might help ensure Nokia doesn't forget me for sponsorships and protos and such in the future.20:18
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, catfight!20:18
w00tStskeeps: me making a catfight noise20:18
w00t^20:18
Stskeepsw00t: stop acting like a furry20:18
w00tGeneralAntilles understands me.20:18
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, Seinfeld. ;)20:18
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GeneralAntilleshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57l9ihMrsic20:21
GeneralAntillesSeriously, lardman in the sidebar.20:22
GeneralAntillesIs this just a conspiracy or something?20:22
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Stskeepsi really wonder about that too20:25
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GeneralAntillesWhat sort of kicksback is he feeding X-Fade?20:25
GeneralAntilless/kicksback/kickbacks20:26
Veggenaaa20:26
wazdwow, a new bug was found in Marina :(20:27
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GeneralAntilleswazd, did it have anything to do with the configure button on the desktop having weird icon issues?20:28
wazdGeneralAntilles: you're like 10th person to report :P20:28
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wazdGeneralAntilles: it's not an actual bug, more like theme limitation20:29
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GeneralAntilleswazd, file a Hildon bug?20:29
wazdGeneralAntilles: that's because actual statusbar is made with 2 pieces - right "curve" and center "scalable plane"20:29
wazdGeneralAntilles: I've made the "curve" side to have a nice black gradient20:30
SpeedEvilhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D3TNScbllw - on brainstorm20:30
GeneralAntilleswazd, ah, I see.20:30
wazdGeneralAntilles: but the problem is that "configure" background doesn't use the whole "curve", only part of it. That's why gradient doesn't fit20:31
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johnsu01If anyone wants to test out some nethack, I have nethack-console and nethack-common. Interested in feedback to get them ready for extras-devel :)20:34
johnsu01They are the maemo packages in http://www.wjsullivan.net/tmp/20:34
johnsu01at your own risk and all, but they seem to install optified and play fine on my device20:35
SpeedEvilwoo!20:36
SpeedEvilthough telnet nethack.alt.org also works well20:36
johnsu01yeah, and Vulture's Eye is already available and pretty cool20:36
SpeedEvilReally needs a fullscreen termina.20:36
johnsu01but I'm a sucker for the classic20:36
SpeedEvilI can't get on with vultures eye.20:37
SpeedEvilIt obscures the fundamental game mechanics for me.20:37
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johnsu01I might do the other UI's at some point too, but I ran into immediate problems with the X dependencies and I wanted the console asap20:37
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SpeedEvilI was pondering the UI. finger based 'travel' might be interesting.20:38
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johnsu01do you think the console should have a launcher from the menu?20:39
* SpeedEvil realises his fixed bug might actually be of use.20:39
SpeedEvil(reported that 18/19/20 high terms crashed nethack)20:39
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SpeedEviljohnsu01: ?20:40
SpeedEvilwhat do you mean.20:40
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johnsu01SpeedEvil: I mean, should it have an icon to launch it20:41
SpeedEvilah20:41
AranelHi, I need help about languages. How can I select a new language, after adding it with "add_remove_language add tr_TR" ?20:41
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SpeedEvilwhat's the *maemo_armel - and the plain armel debs?20:41
AranelSettings > Language & region does not show, btw.20:42
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johnsu01SpeedEvil: the plain armel debs are non-optified20:42
johnsu01SpeedEvil: you should try the maemo version20:42
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johnsu01the armel ones have been tested and work fine, what I just did was rebuild with optification, fixing the package version number to be standard, proper changelog20:43
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SpeedEvilah20:43
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GeneralAntillesGawd, why did I get myself into another "You're all superior elitist assholes!" thread. . . .20:48
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Stskeepswhat, the red pill one?20:49
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, nah the "confusing" repositories one.20:50
w00tGeneralAntilles: link?20:50
GeneralAntillesI really think Nokia needs to pick up the slack for average user support.20:50
GeneralAntilleshttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=50545220:50
w00tta20:51
GeneralAntillesIt's boredom inducing when people keep complaining that maemo.org is complicated.20:51
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GeneralAntillesand the whole Maemo/Nokia/maemo.org confusion makes all of those discussions 1000x less complicated. . . .20:51
* w00t reads 'MAEMO in the original post and cringes'20:51
w00ter20:51
w00t*'MAEMO'20:51
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Stskeepsi vote we rename maemo.org to mer.org20:52
Stskeeps:P20:52
GeneralAntillesStskeeps Land®20:52
w00thahaha.20:52
derfSometimes it feels like Nokia is going down the list in http://lwn.net/Articles/370157/ and checking off boxes.20:52
w00toh dear, more negativity20:52
GeneralAntillesderf, things are getting better, though.20:52
Arkenoianyone got maemo mapper working with yandex traffic info?20:52
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GeneralAntillesderf, and they're certainly better than any OTHER maintsream mobile manufacturer.20:53
derfYes. They have a community to destroy.20:53
Stskeepsderf: the step of making things mainstream is by getting rid of all the geeks ;p20:54
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, shouldn't be a problem after Maemo 6. ;)20:54
lcuktimeless, ping20:54
Myrttioh yes, negative attitude within the community certainly helps with the distruction20:54
* Myrtti zones out with a cuppa tea20:54
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RST38h"It's not enough to have no web site at all; in such situations, the community has an irritating habit of creating sites of its own. But a flaky site can forestall the creation of those sites, ensuring that information is hard to find. "20:57
RST38hOh yesssss20:57
RST38hHas anyone made Quim read this? =)20:57
StskeepsRST38h: maemo-developers20:57
RST38hpurrfect20:57
Stskeepsit was the big discussion about servers20:58
Stskeeps:P20:58
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lcuktranslation question from #maemo-devel if theres any brainpower to answer it20:59
lcuk<Aranel> I am trying to build a translation package for Maemo 5, added .mo files to /usr/share/locale/tr_TR/LC_MESSAGES20:59
lcuk<Aranel> and did "add_remove_language add tr_TR" via Xterm.20:59
lcuk<Aranel> Its OK. But how can I select tr_TR now? It doesnt show up on Settings > Language & region"20:59
* Jaffa likes qgil's comments about MWKN, even after he accused Quim of muddying the waters20:59
SpeedEviljohnsu01: Installed, and found /oSpM in the start room.20:59
RST38h"Community-averse corporations, Josh says, should learn from the United Nations and create lengthy, complicated processes. Keep the decision-making powers unclear; this is an effective way to turn contributors into poisonous people. Needless to say, the rules should be difficult or impossible to change. "21:00
RST38hAh how true21:00
pupnikty johnsu0121:00
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, where?21:00
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Which bit? He was +ve on Twitter and I quoted him about Maemo 6 on N90021:01
SpeedEviljohnsu01: have you been screwing with the RNG? Stealth boots too first room :)21:01
GeneralAntillesJaffa, saw the quote, wondering about the comments.21:02
johnsu01SpeedEvil: lol, no, haven't changed anything :)21:02
johnsu01pupnik: welcome!21:02
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pupnikit is uncomplicated to contribute if you are not stupid21:02
JaffaGeneralAntilles: presuaambly visible under http://twitter.com/quimqil21:03
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, damnit, I hate having to pay attention to twitter.21:03
JaffaGeneralAntilles: You don't need to make a habit of it with MWKN ,)21:04
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prontowhen i plug the usb cable in, for the computer, it just goes staight to charging21:04
andresAny idea why I get a BADSIG error with repository.maemo.org/extras?21:05
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: what would be the earliest mentions about maemo.org as a community?21:06
mikhasdid I miss the PDF link for the MWKN? I want to easily consume it on my "ebook reader"21:06
SpeedEvilpronto: does the n900 show up on lsusb?21:06
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, how do you mean?21:06
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: how things got started21:07
prontoSpeedEvil: the odd thing is, it worked yesterday21:07
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, like, when things switched from being Nokia to community?21:07
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: well, when things started moving in that direction21:07
prontoSpeedEvil: yes it shows up21:07
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GeneralAntillesWell, the new branding guidelines were posted in early 2008.21:07
GeneralAntillesSo around late 2007/early 2008.21:07
GeneralAntillesJaffa, sound right?21:08
JaffaSounds roughly right21:08
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Stskeepsjust pondering the original intention with the community21:08
JaffaBut planet's much older than that, for example21:08
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GeneralAntillesYeah, maemo.org was never particularly Nokia-oriented.21:08
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JaffaAnd the mailing lists date back to 200521:08
Jaffa(apart from -community, of course)21:09
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* GeneralAntilles remembers the giant application wiki page fondly.21:09
* Jaffa shudders21:09
GeneralAntillesEhehe21:09
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JaffaCould've been worse: what about the "apps wanted" page21:09
GeneralAntillesJaffa, but it was so fun loading it up every week or so and hunting for new screenshots. :P21:09
GeneralAntillesHa21:09
GeneralAntillesRight21:09
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JaffaAnd people claim the Maemo community's become less technical ;)21:10
JaffaGeneralAntilles: didn't you use my Application_Catalog RSS feed?! :-p21:10
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, I've never been able to get myself to use RSS.21:11
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lcukthe maemo "community" has changed, from pretty much everyone knowing everyone, like in a commune, to being more like a town or city.  you can walk out of your door and see different people you dont know21:11
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odin_t-tan, ping21:11
t-tanodin_: pong21:11
GeneralAntilleslcuk, no more free love! You pay!21:12
Jaffalcuk: largely true, but there's always been a large silent group who just get on with shit.21:12
lcukindeed jaffa21:12
odin_t-tan, I have a debhelper5 patch for scratchbox, adding --prefix (just a little more checking/testing to do on it)21:12
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lcukGeneralAntilles, i always paid!21:12
JaffaGeneralAntilles: five dorrar21:12
Jaffalcuk: with blood!21:12
t-tanodin_: cool! where can I download it?21:12
lcukthats just pointing out the obvious lol21:13
* Jaffa reckons we'll know when the NX01 is nearing release as lcuk'll lose another finger21:13
GeneralAntillesHaha21:13
mikhasJaffa, is there a PDF version of MWKN?21:13
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lcukjaffa, push n900 party, thursday night london centre, theres tix available for yourself and anidel if you like21:13
Jaffamikhas: Not yet, I'm afraid. But single HTML and PDF downloads are planned21:13
lcukhahahahahaha21:13
mikhascool21:13
lcukno fudging way, i have a keyfob now21:14
mikhassingle HTML would suffice, aye21:14
lcukhad*21:14
Jaffalcuk: ah cool, I'll ask the missus for a pass21:14
Jaffalcuk: will let you know. would be good.21:14
lcuki am having transport problems, but if i can be there i will21:14
lcukyou are on the guest list tho21:14
odin_t-tan, please take a look, this is a beta and still needs checking over from someone who knows better than me: http://www.darrylmiles.org/temp/maemo/debhelper-5.0.42.20100131.dlm.diff21:14
* lcuk is going to fosdem the next day21:15
Dassuanything similar to the spotify for maemo. Something non-flash :P21:15
Dassu?21:15
odin_t-tan, if you use dpkg-buildpackage is fails the unit-tests (you have to install the changes manually over /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/ and then re-run dpkg-buildpackage  (the self hosting ./run script is broken inside scratchbox :( )21:17
fralsthere are spotify clients if thats what you are after21:17
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pupnikodin_: that could make optification much simpler, yes?21:18
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t-tanodin_: thanks. looks good, similiar to what I had planned. I'd add a DH_PREFIX env.var which overwrites the prefix for all dh_ commands21:18
t-tanodin_: would you mind updating it for debhelper7? debhelper5 is dead21:19
odin_pupnik, yes the patch is to improve the process, as some stuff still ends up in /usr/share/... and such, you just need to set in debian/rules: export DH_OPTIONS=--prefix=/usr/local21:19
Stskeepsnot on maemo21:19
Stskeeps:P21:19
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odin_t-tan, yes that was my next chore, when I am happy its good, work with current debhelper version21:20
* lcuk giggles @ Stskeeps 21:20
Jaffalcuk: excellent, should I let you know or email someone else? (Actually, whereabouts in London is it?)21:20
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Dassufrals: yes, but they require premium account21:20
t-tanodin_: oh, right. DH_OPTION is a better option :) the debhelper7 testsuite works21:21
lcukjaffa, ill send a mail to all 3 of us, for some reason i thought you were already included21:21
fralsyes, afaik only the official "desktop" version can be run without a premium acc21:21
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odin_t-tan, actually I need to check for --prefix=/usr/local return "usr/local" no leading or trailing slashes (just to make it work as expected for users, just in case a trailing slash is important to something, needs to canonizalise the path to "usr/local"21:22
t-tanI hope we can someday get true optification, i.e everything is under /opt/package and relevant files are linked in /opt/maemo/*21:23
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Sef24hello21:23
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odin_t-tan, I think flash price/size will get better, so 1Gb is not a problem in 2 years time21:23
Sef24today I selled my TP2, totally sick of WinMo21:24
Sef24niw the good news21:24
Sef24Tomorrow, I have my new N90021:24
odin_t-tan, but still needs to make package management scalable but work with anticipated rootfs size increases with time21:24
Sef24so now my question21:24
t-tanodin_: it's not only about space (and I want to use my N900 now) but about good design21:25
Sef24I have a Windows Mobile PIM file, created with PIM backup21:25
konttoritimeless: is browser using libjpeg to load jpegs?21:25
Sef24how I can import this in Maemo?21:25
Sef24Google don't find anything21:25
timeless_mbpit's probably using gecko's libjpeg...21:25
timeless_mbpabout:buildconfig should say21:25
* timeless_mbp is @dinner21:25
konttoriah, well, we just added neon code to encoding and decodings.21:25
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Sef24anybody?21:26
konttoriit improves jpeg load times 2x21:26
timeless_mbpgiven that i don't trust your team not to introduce security vulnerabilities21:26
timeless_mbpabout:buildconfig says --with-system-jpeg21:26
konttorigreat!21:26
timeless_mbpwhich means you've probably just added 10 security vulnerabilities21:26
konttorilol! Should be fun then21:26
timeless_mbpplease send a memo to avs21:26
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, we don't want Maemo to be boring.21:27
t-tanodin_: Nokia would merely need to add /opt/maemo to the search paths for bin, lib, man, icons, apps etc21:27
konttoriwho is avs?21:27
timeless_mbp /whois =b21:27
pupniksomeone pls listen to t-tan21:27
timeless_mbpkonttori: please keep in mind that the browser gets png/bmp/pcx/gif marked as jpeg21:27
Stskeepst-tan: and pkg-config and so on..21:27
timeless_mbpand it also gets and expects to render incomplete files21:27
konttorioh, that guy. Sure, will do. I have other matter I need to discuss with him anyway21:27
Stskeepst-tan: the list is very long21:27
konttoritimeless_mbp: the code segments are very clear parts of the decoding (and encoding process).21:28
mikhasSef24, the way you import contacts with the N900 are vcards21:28
konttoriAlso, the code was ported from upstream for the most part by serge.21:28
t-tanStskeeps: i don't think so. most of it can already be done by modifying /etc/profile or osso-startup21:28
Sef24ok21:28
Sef24Look21:28
konttorianyway, the gain is significant.21:29
timeless_mbpoh, this is a backport?21:29
Sef24I don't have a windows phone anymore21:29
mikhasso I guess you'd need a tool to convert your PIM backup to vcards, or have an exchange server nearby?21:29
konttoritimeless_mbp: for a part, yes21:29
konttoribut not entirely21:29
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Sef24I have a WinMo Emulator21:29
Sef24can I de backup it on there21:29
Sef24and dump it in vcards?21:29
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mikhasSef24, try http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3290821:31
mikhaskeywords: active sync, outlook, exchange, nokia pc suite21:31
mikhashope that helps21:32
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odin_t-tan, yes... I am trying to isolate the issues, but I think some people at Nokia think that optified package should be compiled with --prefix=/usr and I think that is incorrect, they should all be --prefix=/usr/local and its the /usr/local tree that gets the symlinks (this leave the main rootfs largely unchanged, and so less issue with NSU/SSO)21:32
Sef24I don't have Outlook or Exchange nearby21:32
Sef24only a PIM backup .PIM file21:33
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Sef24I can extract it on a winmo emulator21:33
Sef24then I only need a way to dump it in vCards21:33
Stskeepskonttori: BTW, is the reason you optify things inside /usr/share/themes/<themename> and not the <themename> folder itself, due to a bug in the theme chooser?21:33
konttoritimeless_mbp: the parts of neon optimizations are not touching the envelope handling any way, so there is no change to the "png/bmp/pcx/gif marked as jpeg"21:33
konttoriStskeeps: yes21:33
timeless_mbpkonttori: ok, but what about the malformed jpeg? :)21:33
t-tanodin_: fully agreed. but why /usr/local and not /opt?21:34
konttoritimeless_mbp: should work exactly the same as previously. Just faster21:34
timeless_mbpbtw, i'm not sure jpeg's are that common on the web anyway21:34
Stskeepskonttori: alright, we ran into it when running maemo-optify - thanks for telling me21:34
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odin_t-tan, /usr/local is the traditional place to have a fill unix like tree, like /usr/local/etc /usr/local/bin /usr/local/share /usr/local/lib21:34
konttoritimeless_mbp: Interesting opinion. I would assume most of the bigger graphic elements are jpegs in sites.21:35
odin_t-tan, where as /opt is the traditional place to put /opt/AdobeAcrobat9.2/ and /opt/SunJvm1.6u18 (large things that standalone and do not conform to Unix like filesystem layouts)21:35
t-tanodin_:  according to LSB /usr/local is for stuff not maintained by pkg management.21:35
timeless_mbpnot if they want transparency21:35
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konttoriStskeeps: yeah, definitely, you should optify themes with optifying all subfolders the the themefolder itself21:35
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konttoritimeless_mbp: yes, not if they need transparency, as most content does not.21:35
timeless_mbplooks like the pictures on youtube are .jpg21:36
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odin_t-tan, then according to LSB we should package all the optified stuff and symlink from /usr/bin/foo (since that falls under package management)21:36
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konttoritimeless_mbp: I just took random site that I visit: http://www.joystiq.com/ -> most of the image content is jpeg.21:37
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konttori(used web developer extension, page info to find out921:38
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wolf^timeless, are you joking about those jpegs?21:38
Stskeepsi sense a bit of sarcasm21:38
t-tanodin_: there is apparently no consensus, but have look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard21:38
jophishAt the moment the partition table for the internal card is a 27gb ext3 partition, then a 2gb fat partition and 700mb swap, would there be any problem is shrinking the fat to 1gb, and expanding the swap to 1.7gb and the obviously reformatting the fat partition?21:38
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timeless_mbp?21:39
lcukkonttori, a lot of site graphics are pngs and gifs, a lot of site content is jpeg21:39
SpeedEvilbigger swap won't help21:39
SpeedEvilby the time you're 768m deep in swap - you're almost certainly dead21:39
GeneralAntillesjophish, swap EXT3 and FAT there . . . .21:40
timeless_mbphttp://s.ytimg.com/yt/img/master-vfl141814.png21:40
jophishok, thanks21:40
timeless_mbpthe youtube graphic is actually a tile thingy21:40
jophishwhat do you mean GeneralAntilles21:40
t-tanGeneralAntilles: not here :)21:40
timeless_mbpso it's one file w/ all the youtube art21:40
timeless_mbpthe rest of the stuff is "content" as lcuk  categorized it21:40
t-tanSpeedEvil: agree21:40
wolf^timeless_mbp, now try to find some photos in png21:40
GeneralAntillest-tan, the 27GB is FAT, the 2GB is EXT3.21:40
jophishI ahve swapped them around21:40
GeneralAntillesAh, I see.21:41
GeneralAntillesWell21:41
jophishreally, I would like to get rid of the blasted fat fs totally21:41
odin_jophish, 1.7gb of SWAP ? for a mobile device?21:41
t-tanGeneralAntilles: I swapped them too21:41
GeneralAntillesjophish, some stuff may break.21:41
konttorilcuk: timeless_mbp: yes, that's a fair generalization (what lcuk said)21:41
GeneralAntillesjophish, really not worth worrying about.21:41
jophishodin_, well, I thought it might be better than 1gb of wasted fat space21:41
t-tanjophish: we have thread/brainstorm for that http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3786921:41
timeless_mbpwolf^: well, the question is how much 'content' do people encounter v. 'chrome'21:41
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jophishyeah, been reading that a bit t-tan21:42
lcukkonttori, your original point though, optimizations.  they are really noticable?21:42
wolf^timeless_mbp, I think amount of png content is insignificant, when compared to jpegs21:42
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odin_jophish, if I were you, I'd worry about your partition layout after you have, 1) filled your 2Gb ext3 filesystem, 2) explored the used of the microSD port for mounting 16Gb cards that you can wear out and replace and also partition how you want21:42
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konttorilcuk: look at the statistics on the internal bugzilla.21:43
konttorithe encoding speed is near to DSP capability after those optimizations21:43
lcukyeah ive read it, i just havent had a chance to reflash and try em21:44
jophishodin_, I was planning on symlinking some things like /var/ and /usr/ to the internal card21:44
konttorishould be pretty darn visible in image viewers thumbnail view21:44
jophishrunning out of space on /21:44
timeless_mbpwolf^: load about:cache?device=memory21:44
* lcuk msiles heartily21:44
lcuksmiles21:44
konttoriwhich is loading jpegs like mad.21:44
timeless_mbpin my gecko, i have way more .png files than i have .jpg flies21:44
timeless_mbps/flies/files/21:44
t-tanodin_: if you sync with a POSIX file system on your desktop, your home is filled very soon...21:44
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konttoritimeless_mbp: probably also depends on sites you visit21:44
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timeless_mbpkonttori: certainly21:45
odin_t-tan, what are you syncing ?  I can understand content? but what in /home ?21:45
lcuki dont think ive ever seen png porn21:45
Stskeepsso the issue is the usage of maemo libjpeg6b vs gecko libjpeg?21:45
timeless_mbplcuk: you mean you've never seen people compose pr0n out of two otherwise innocent images? :)21:45
lcukkonttori, harryf was also talking about some optimization hes making to tables in qt, for a small compromise you can get much faster rendering of them :)21:46
jophishodin_, all of my stuff on my desktop is in home /home/images /home/documents21:46
odin_and N900 and an IPhone (p0rn!)21:46
w00ttimeless_mbp: I have 3k .jpg in my cache, 2k png, 2k gif21:46
wolf^timeless_mbp, I don't see the content I have loaded on that page21:46
lcuktimeless, sure, but fakes are normally helped by a bit of jpeg artifacts21:46
w00t(fyi)21:46
jophishnot in the silly Mydocs folder21:46
timeless_mbpStskeeps: check about:buildconfig21:46
timeless_mbpat least the build i'm using says --with-system-jpeg21:47
t-tanodin_: scripts, symlinks, documents, music etc21:47
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: yes, system jpeg21:47
timeless_mbpwhich means we aren't build the gecko one21:47
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i'm just wondering what the issue is, security issues in libjpeg?21:47
timeless_mbpkonttori: this also means you're on hook for any security issues either from your changes21:47
odin_jophish, okay I'm not into this syncing of $HOME data (my $HOME has a 66 Gb partition for it and I'm the only user, 50% full mind!)21:47
timeless_mbpor from mainline which happen to need fixing21:47
lcukStskeeps, history of image formats having security vulns21:47
lcukor rather, parsers thereof21:47
Stskeepslcuk: well, yes21:48
konttoritimeless_mbp: isn't that the way it always is?21:48
timeless_mbpkonttori: most of the time people don't seem to take any responsibility21:48
timeless_mbpso, 'no'21:48
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timeless_mbpwhat i mean, is that i hold you personally responsible :)21:48
konttorilcuk: sounds interesting. Provided that he feels those are usually acceptable compromises. He should know21:48
t-tanodin_: it's just much cleaner. I know that I'll hardly ever need a FAT fs - so why keep it21:49
lcukkonttori, if its an optimization pathway that could be identified when filling a table and used in specific case then its a real win21:49
konttoritimeless_mbp: well, hold me or don't. I haven't coded the part and I am not in position to evaluate it. As far as I know, it should not raise any new security issues.21:49
jophishodin_, what would you (or anyone else) recommend symlinking out of / to /home. /var/cache seems like a good example21:49
konttorithat's as far as I go.21:49
timeless_mbpkonttori: as long as if any are found you help get a fix delivered21:50
timeless_mbpi'm not going to hold you to personally fix it21:50
konttorilcuk: so, sounds like it's not affecting the other cases then at all.21:50
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timeless_mbpbut you will either get it fixed and delivered or let us revert the optimization / upgrade to unoptimized and deliver something21:50
pupnikt-tan: such solutions cannot be mainstreamed21:50
konttoritimeless_mbp: I'll have guys in there until fremantle maintenance is stopped.21:50
t-tanjophish: my restore scripts automatically moves: usr/share/icons usr/share/nokia-maps usr/share/themes usr/share/fonts usr/share/locale usr/lib/locale var/lib/apt21:50
konttoriand I would assume those fixes also go to harmattan pretty quickly21:50
timeless_mbpkonttori: getting fixes internally isn't the same as delivering them21:50
lcukkonttori, i dont know if hes finished it, it was just a brief conversation i saw from him earlier that made me smile21:50
* w00t raises an eyebrow21:51
konttori(or perhaps we just hold on a bit more and later 'fix performance issues' like magic21:51
jophisht-tan, sounds good. I'm interested in this restore script too, care to elaborate?21:51
timeless_mbplcuk: what's a "Table in Qt" ?21:51
t-tanpupnik: it is possible. if you have a FAT loopfile and dm_loop module, there should be no need for partitions and no speed issues21:52
lcuka gridview i assume, since he talks about transparent cell rendering and such21:52
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javispedroah, the n900 is on slashdot again today.21:53
odin_t-tan, hmmm.. can we have ext3 partition and loop a FAT/VFAT image of it for USB ?21:53
lcukmy n900 goes on slashdot every day21:53
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mikhaslol!21:53
pupnikahh ty t-tan .. so vfat would still exist for pc-suite users?21:53
greenflyI wonder whether you couldn't create a vfat plugin for fuse21:53
t-tanjophish: I'll upload it someday. basically it's a script I run after every reflash to restore my /etc modications, apps and FS hierarchy21:54
greenflyand then just expose the underlying ext3 file system as a vfat with fuse, when you want usb mass storage21:54
GeneralAntillesI can't believe the N900 made /. with freaking PearPC.21:54
GeneralAntillesWHO CARES?!21:54
iPeter-Hi21:54
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: geeks who smell like dead cheese21:54
t-tanodin_, pupnik: yes, that's the solutions I have implemented. works fine21:54
iPeter-How should i import music to my phone, i did import over 10gb music to .sounds folder21:54
iPeter-but they doesnt seem to be on mediaplayer21:54
javispedroGeneralAntilles: oh, on Engadget it even made it to the non-apple feed.21:54
odin_greenfly, all you need to do is track the block allocations, that can be done with a backing store file21:55
greenflyI mean, vfat features (at least from the perspective of the user) are a subset of ext3 anyway21:55
greenflyno permisions, etc.21:55
t-tanpupnik: AFAIK you could even export multiple loop files, e.g. a FAT and a ext321:55
odin_greenfly, indeed21:55
javispedrogreenfly: it makes no sense21:55
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rangeiPeter-: Just copy the music somewhere. Can be that .sounds isn't indexed for the media player.21:55
javispedrogreenfly: you'd need a block device emulator, not a filesystem in user space21:55
w00tGeneralAntilles: to be fair, any publicity is good publicity21:55
konttorijavispedro: I meant to ask that are you using the compositor zooming or not?21:55
konttori(in drnoksnes)21:56
odin_javispedro, you can expose a % of your overall volume via USB and a sub-tree somewhere21:56
GeneralAntillesw00t, very much agreed, I just find it bizarre that it should be this generating the publicity.21:56
GeneralAntillesw00t, and not the fact that the N900 is the freaking N900. ;)21:56
w00tagreed21:56
w00tespecially when it took 2 hours to actually do anything21:56
greenflyjavispedro: you don't think that's achievable with fuse?21:56
GeneralAntillesWhich should be directly up the alley of every person on /.21:56
javispedrokonttori: current on -devel is using remote-texture when you select full screen in options dialog, current on git uses animation-actor through a SDL wrapper21:56
t-tangreenfly: WinDOS expects a stupid block device21:56
odin_javispedro, why block device emulation ?  what is that ?  a block device is nothing more than a I/O endpoint servicing requests, what you needs is a FAT emulation and just control is via block allocation21:56
javispedrokonttori: so, yes :)21:57
t-tanif you want higher-level access, use CIFS,NFS, sshfs etc21:57
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1532544&no_d2=1&cid=3098458221:57
jophisht-tan, would you be able to put this script on pastebin or something, If is's not too much trouble21:57
konttorijavispedro: so, in the end it is faster than doing it in code?21:57
konttori(with scaler algo)21:57
t-tanjophish: so far it + the other files contain personal stuff or very device specific things.21:58
javispedrokonttori: it was not faster than a 2x scaler in assembly with the window uncomposited21:58
pupnikdepends on integer 2x scale vs non-int, yes?21:58
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, Nokia really needs to work on their advertising.21:58
pupnikmwah21:58
ShadikkaStuff like this is one thing that I like in Maemo 5.21:59
ShadikkaApplication installations failed (had to create /home/opt), then thought that the App Manager should really have a log view or something.21:59
ShadikkaAnd then I naturally noticed that it does. ;p21:59
javispedrokonttori: it's faster in composited mode, and my guess is that it will be faster than non simple ratio scalers (didn't try)21:59
odin_javispedro, host via USB reads in FAT, decides to allocate a block, writes out change; linux monitors this change and what it has been associated against, the other area is monitoring of directory structure activity and inode to cluster-number translation21:59
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: nokia does advertising? where?22:00
Stskeepslondon tube?22:00
javispedroodin_: the scsi protocol does not include "allocate a block" in its command set.22:00
odin_javispedro, what has SCSI protocol got to do with it22:00
javispedroodin_: a lot22:00
odin_javispedro, the emulated FAT is at a fixed address into the logical device22:00
iPeter-range: It seems it didnt update it so quickly, now they are there. Thanks anyway.22:00
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javispedroodin_: we're talking about USB Mass Storage here don't we?22:00
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odin_javispedro, a write to that logic storage range means we're editing the emulated FAT22:01
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odin_javispedro, the SCSI protocol is just the device driver command/data transport, nothing to do with FAT emulation22:01
konttorijavispedro: thanks. Good to know. And yeah, I also assumed proper 2x scaler would be faster, but that's something that really cannot be used on our device, as nothing is exactly 2x.22:01
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t-tanodin_: so much effort for what? why not just install Samba over USBnet?22:02
odin_javispedro, the transport should be just as well a process using open()/close()/read()/lseek()/write() or SATA or anything22:02
javispedroodin_: yes, but you assume the "host allocates a block" like if it was such a simple thing to detect22:02
odin_t-tan, to keep the partition on the device a super-set and retain Linux unix permisstions/ACL/xattrs etc... you don't have to share your entire 32Gb eMMC, you might want to only make 8Gb visible (via quotas)22:03
javispedroodin_: you've never read a SSD firmware, and never experienced the issues they experience when the fw, used to the windows fastfat driver behaviour suddenly is replaced by the linux's vfat behavior.22:03
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javispedros/suddenly/which is suddenly22:03
t-tanjavispedro: have you?22:03
odin_javispedro, block allocation is simple to detect, if the write is heading for an unallocated block we know its new data, the only issue is out-of-order matters (since you can not control the order the implemntation manipulated the logical device)22:04
GeneralAntilleswazd, seriously, Marina's quite tasty.22:04
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, try it yet?22:04
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: marina?22:04
GeneralAntillesYeah22:04
GeneralAntillesand can somebody PLEASE give me some input here? http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/5783922:05
javispedrot-tan: odin_: I tried to do this to support writes to builtin Palm T|X drive through Mass Storage. And it is a engineering nightmare.22:05
odin_javispedro, think of it like a load of open transactions but at some point the the picture will become clear22:05
GeneralAntilles(preferably on -community so it'll stimulate some discussion)22:05
jophishok, no worries. thanks anyway t-tan22:05
timeless_mbpis it in extras or do i need testing?22:05
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, should be in -testing.22:06
t-tanodin_, javispedro: a read only solution should be easy22:06
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odin_javispedro, you can quickly detect writes to: superblock, FAT1, FAT2, directory, existing file, new data block (on a request by request basis)22:06
javispedrot-tan: a both sides read-only solution, yes.22:06
javispedrot-tan: if you factor in writes are coming from the ext3 side, it's not easy any longer22:06
javispedrot-tan: it's a suicide22:06
javispedroodin_: again, please grab a dump of the access patterns of the windows fastfat driver. you'd be surprised.22:07
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timeless_mbpi don't see it in testing22:07
timeless_mbpmaybe it's installed? :)22:07
odin_write's can't come from ext3, by definition the host expects it to have exclusive access to the filesystem22:07
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, or possibly -devel, not sure.22:07
t-tanjavispedro: correct. you'd have to lock all exported files22:08
konttoriGeneralAntilles:  what input do you need?22:08
TomaszDUS-based people, there's a cool linux-based gadget for cheap only today http://www.woot.com/22:08
odin_the existing mechanism must already have a stratagy for merging changes by N900 and changes over USB, but I'm saying you can control kernel block allocation (and availability to never error)22:09
javispedroso basically you're going to present two diferent filesystem to both sides?22:09
jophishIf I wanted to have /var/cache symlinked to /home/var/cache what would be the best way of doing this, so that it works over a reboot22:09
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t-tanjophish: should be no problem - it is preserved over reboots22:10
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odin_javispedro, well the FAT version is 100% emulated, it doesn't exist as FAT, but the FAT layout and design is used as the communication mechnism22:10
jophishthanks t-tan22:11
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GeneralAntilleskonttori, anything, really.22:11
GeneralAntilleskonttori, particularly stuff about the specific metrics, though.22:11
jaskaiirc qemu does fat-emulation22:11
konttorithat the idea of statistics is nice?22:11
GeneralAntilleskonttori, mostly about the specifics of said statistics.22:11
konttoriWell, one interesting metric would be votes killed (so bug X has 20 bugs, it's resolved -> 20 votes killed) per month per component?22:12
GeneralAntilleskonttori, input on how to get qualitative answers from the data, etc.22:12
konttoriand that compared to open votes for that component.22:12
konttorithat gives a nice metric of speed a component is fixing serious issues.22:13
konttorior that it's not22:13
GeneralAntillesThe 3 samples I put in the email were weirdly consistent.22:13
timeless_mbpkonttori: what to do about votes on wontfix bugs22:13
wazdGeneralAntilles: well, thanks again, glad you enjoy it :)22:14
timeless_mbpthere's a bug asking the browser bookmarks menu to match the browser menu22:14
timeless_mbpthe ui team doesn't like making things consistent, so the bug's wontfix22:14
konttoritimeless - interesting choice. I suppose they remain as if they were actual bugs.22:14
* timeless_mbp would actually not mind having the menu items present22:14
timeless_mbpthe problem though22:14
timeless_mbpis that a bug can potentially have 100 voters22:14
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, provide commentary about how much we hate UI people and a management? :P22:14
timeless_mbpand be wontfix22:14
konttoriInvalid is a different resolution and then they should be treated as if they never existed22:14
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RST38hwazd moo22:15
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: actually, most of the ui people ceased to exist as of today22:15
GeneralAntillesBut, really, stupid stuff that ends up on Talk and gets 50 votes but is WONTFIX because it's stupid skews stuff.22:15
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konttoritimeless_mbp: doesn't that still mean that that issue was something that 100 people wanted fixed and it's still not fixed?22:15
timeless_mbpso we now hate ghosts22:15
konttoriperhaps the wontfix statistics should only affect that single month but not subsequent?22:16
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timeless_mbpi could live w/ that22:16
GeneralAntillesAs far as grading goes,22:16
GeneralAntillesI'm mostly interested in getting people from those products involved in Bugzilla.22:17
timeless_mbpwe just had someone do an internal review22:17
timeless_mbpand about the only positive mark was general involvement in the internal bugzilla22:17
GeneralAntillesSo whether stuff is being looked at and responded to by @Nokia (and @Nokia contractor) persons.22:18
timeless_mbpwe have a bunch of other tools which got very high NEGATIVE marks22:18
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jophishnothing should break if I just use a small FAT loop file on a large ext3 partition as /home/user/Mydocs?22:18
jophishgoing to get rid of the fat partition completly22:18
timeless_mbpjophish: very funny22:18
timeless_mbpthat won't make usb mass storage magically work22:19
jophishoh, and fix that too22:19
timeless_mbpi'm not sure if camera will work22:19
timeless_mbpi didn't spend enough time figuring out what the heck it was doing22:19
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GeneralAntillesI'd like to encourage higher "positive" resolution rates, but the number of factors involved in that makes trying to make those numbers useful more difficult.22:19
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jophishtimeless, I believe that the camera can output to ext3 now22:20
GeneralAntillesIt'd be easier if people were more careful about actually picking up bugs.22:20
Damion2may work if you point /dev/blkthing1 to loop0 but that probably won't last past a reboot22:20
GeneralAntillesIf somebody says they're working on something, then they need to mark it ASSIGNED. . . .22:21
Damion2I think stock boot expects 3rd part tol be fat.  dunno what size22:21
jophishchanging /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh22:21
jophishthe third partition is swap22:21
Damion2ah22:21
jophishfirst is fat by default22:21
Damion2k22:21
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Damion2anyway I know ruskie had to flash his a few times playing22:22
* ifreq tryes to crosscompile some games for maemo22:23
ruskiea few lol22:23
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Damion2you could linear concat raid several 4GB blocks on the fat to make large ext2/3 part22:23
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ruskie5 days straight when I got it, probably once every 4-5 hours22:24
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jophishruskie, Thanks for your efforts22:25
jophishmind if I explain what I'm going to do?22:25
t-tanjophish: I've uploaded an edited version of my restore script http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Tanner  (untested)22:25
Damion2it's dos style partition despite being completely different architecture?22:25
jophishoh thanks t-tan22:25
Damion2you might be able to shrink fat and make p4 out of the space after kit22:25
Damion2it22:25
ruskieDamion2, just how data is stored on the partition22:25
ruskiejophish, sure thing22:25
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Damion2ruskie: yes, but it's based on old BIOS things like having an active boot flag and pointless 512bytes at the start22:26
jophishOn the internal flash, one large ext3 partition and the 700mb swap. a bunch of things from /usr symlinked to dirs on the ext3 partition. And a small FAT loop in /home/user22:27
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jophishscripts I have to update are, the mass storage ones, and  /etc/event.d/rcS-late22:28
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woglindejo22:30
woglinde~seen javispedro22:30
infobotjavispedro <~javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 20m 29s ago, saying: 'so basically you're going to present two diferent filesystem to both sides?'.22:30
* asj_ waves good morning to everyone22:30
woglinde*g*22:30
woglindeits nearly time to go to bed22:31
jophishgoodnight22:31
pupnikjohnsu01: looks like nethack needs a symlink or shellscript in /usr/bin22:31
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woglindehe pupnik22:31
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Damion2I wonder if the kernel would panic if a r/o fat mount changed underneath it22:32
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odin_Damion2, why should it panic ?22:33
Damion2if I r/o mount MyDocs after it's exported to my ps322:33
Damion2then videos saved to it could be rsynced to my nas22:33
johnsu01pupnik: Yeah, not sure what to do about that -- the issue is /usr/games not being in the default $PATH which I believe is also true on typical gnu/linux systems22:34
Damion2odin_: it'll be changing at the block layer beyond what it's expecting22:34
woglindehm debian has it22:34
cehtehaccessing a block device concurrently by filesystems is a reciepe for desaster22:34
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satmdbreakage guaranteed22:34
Damion2cehteh: the mount would be ro :)22:34
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cehtehstill22:35
Damion2I have an EyeFi which does it22:35
johnsu01woglinde: it does?22:35
cehtehr/o still means the kernel caches vital datastructures in ram22:35
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woglindejohnsu01 /usr/games in path22:35
Damion2yes that was my q about likelihood for panics22:35
cehtehif these get changed unexpected then it will break22:35
pupnikjohnsu01: yeah, and how to make that change so that it works for autobuilder?  don't ask me22:35
johnsu01woglinde: my install doesn't seem to...22:35
cehtehDamion2: dont do that22:35
woglinde/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games22:36
johnsu01woglinde: is that defined somewhere other than /etc/skel?22:36
Damion2cehteh: maybe detect activity in the usb exported storage daemon and umount, then remount for rsync when the ps3 settles down22:36
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johnsu01wow, it's awesome that mmpc pauses my stereo when the phone rings22:37
cehtehDamion2: mounted device will not be exported, usb-storage connected device can not be mounted22:37
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woglindezsh/zshenv:     export PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/games"22:37
johnsu01ah zsh :)22:37
cehtehunless you circumvent that somehow .. but then you really shoot in your own foot22:37
woglindesame for bash22:37
woglindehm or not22:37
cehtehDamion2: you can use mtools to access a fat block device without mounting it, that should be safe22:38
johnsu01woglinde: yeah, I don't think so, I've had this in my .bashrc for a long time22:38
woglindelogin.defs:ENV_PATH     PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games22:38
Damion2cehteh: ahh yes mixed with fuse it could seem to be mounted22:39
Jophish_n900ruskie, replacing the partition table with this: http://pastebin.com/m3248f90b22:39
Jophish_n900not so sure about p2 there though22:39
Damion2cehteh: unmounted device can be presented at the client usbstorage22:39
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cehtehDamion2: soem fuse-mounting might work too *if* you explicitly turn off all caching22:39
pupnikand there's the 'fun' with our debhelper that doesn't seem to accept alternate destination prefixes.  see odin_22:40
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javispedrocehteh: on both sides22:40
Damion2cehteh: I'd write that part myself22:40
ShadowJKat some point using smb/cifs or nfs becomes more sensible..22:40
cehtehyes but libfuse caches some things internally iirc you have to turn that off22:40
pupnikat no point is nfs sensible for a wlan connection22:40
woglindepupnik?22:40
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Damion2cehteh: ps3 mounts the block dev from my phone.  I monitor load / data in/out on the block and mount r/o to run a quick rsync before umount22:41
javispedrowell, from a security point of view, only all_squash nfs is "safe".22:41
johnsu01woglinde: Hm, yeah, guess so. So the question is why doesn't maemo do that? :)22:41
cehtehDamion2: i'd opt for some usb-storeage server which emulates a virtual FAT over any other filesystem22:41
timeless_mbpkonttori: remind me to try to lecture people about strings22:41
cehtehthat would be awesome and there is already some code in qemu for doing that readonly22:42
javispedrocehteh: ... that doesn't work in windows22:42
timeless_mbpthey're mixing strings for Foo–updated <h:mm> and Foo–updated <date+time>22:42
timeless_mbpwhich unfortunately doesn't work22:42
cehtehwho cares about windows :P22:42
woglindejohnsu01 dont ask me22:42
javispedrocehteh: if you don't care about windows why are you keeping the FAT partition in the first place22:42
* ShadowJK suggests rsync over usb then22:42
woglindemaybee its not following LSB22:42
cehtehdunno i would delete it :)22:42
Damion2cehteh: eek not sure that's feasable.  the mounting device expects a stock block it can do what it wants with22:43
cehtehwell would quite some work to do, you have to virtualize a complete fat system22:43
javispedroit's feasable when both sides are read only, and even then is hard.22:43
Damion2my mount of say ext then colnverted into a fake blobk with fat?  v.hard22:43
timeless_mbpcehteh: yeah, it's really "not simple"22:43
konttoriare you talking about region settings?22:43
konttorior what?22:43
timeless_mbpkonttori: no22:43
timeless_mbpMfE's sync status22:43
Damion2look up the eyefi22:43
timeless_mbpin the system menu22:43
timeless_mbpcehteh: the system can make an arbitrary series of writes over an arbitrary amount of time22:44
konttorioh, well, I suppose we can mess up dates in other places and not just in locales22:44
konttori(or the lack of use of locales)22:44
cehtehi am actually wondering why the n900 doesnt do usb networking by default and starts a samba for the poor windows users22:44
timeless_mbpcehteh: because windows doesn't come w/ usb networking drivers22:44
timeless_mbpwhich means it wouldn't work22:44
cehtehthat would be simple enough to setup and way more flexible22:44
timeless_mbpthis stuff has been discussed22:44
SpeedEvilit's not only windows22:44
timeless_mbpit's also in the #maemo logs22:44
Damion2yeah.  other that playstation I use ssh and sshfs22:44
cehtehtimeless: ewww22:44
timeless_mbpi know, because i put it there22:44
SpeedEvilit's also plugging it into a printer - and having it 'just work' to print photos22:45
timeless_mbpnow, be a good boy and find the logs so i can write them up22:45
SpeedEvilif the printer can take mass storage devices.22:45
javispedroDamion2: the eyefi requires a "compatible" camera22:45
SpeedEvilor mp3 systems...22:45
timeless_mbpbut yeah, what SpeedEvil said22:45
timeless_mbpit's not just windows22:45
cehtehSpeedEvil: it doesnt support PICT bridge anyways .. thats another thing :P22:45
timeless_mbpusb mass storage is the universal standard because it's the universal standard22:45
ShadowJKwhen I plug in my N900, in "charging only" mode it pretends to be a usb ethernet thing of some sort22:45
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cehtehyeah and FAT sux22:45
Damion2javispedro: by compatible camera that just means /DCIM/100CANON/filename.jpg22:46
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javispedroDamion2: no. it means they have a _specific_ fat driver they care about22:46
javispedroand ignore the rest.22:46
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Damion2my linux box saved in to that dir and it worked22:46
ShadowJKBut you could do like the S60 people have done, put pcsuite "drivers" on a windows readable partition with autostart22:46
cehtehhence the rather complicated suggestion to make some virtual fat server ..22:46
javispedroDamion2: how do you tell it to upload the fotos?22:46
cehtehthat would be compatible and flexible .. but quite a lot work to do22:47
Damion2you don't it just seems to detect no save activity and run a sync22:47
ShadowJKNokia is even doing that for linux now, apparently. The CS-15 modem presents itself as a cdrom, and contains .deb for Ubuntu and autostart crud for windows drivers :-)22:47
satmd|n900just port samba?22:47
javispedroDamion2: that sounds so stupid.22:47
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satmd|n900or cifs22:47
johnsqHi22:47
timeless_mbpShadowJK: in charging only mode22:47
timeless_mbpyou're supposed to be an unconfigured usb device and get 100mA22:48
javispedroDamion2: so what If I write half-photo then my computer freezes for a few seconds and it decides to start uploading corrupting photos22:48
* konttori is using paradigm of no-context-menus in the new media player (and not only to be nice to timeless_mbp)22:48
Damion2it sounds easyfor users and seems to work22:48
javispedro*corrupted22:48
timeless_mbpif you don't pick pcsuite mode, then we're not supposed to ask for more22:48
timeless_mbpkonttori: hrm22:48
Damion2javispedro: dunno, cameras probably don't do that22:48
timeless_mbpthe few context menus in the maemo5 media player are lame22:48
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp: my N900 presents itself as usb networking and asks for 500mAh in charging only mode22:48
timeless_mbpso i won't cry when you show me they aren't there22:48
javispedroDamion2: _compatible_ cameras, I remark.22:48
woglindehe javis22:48
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timeless_mbpShadowJK: yeah22:49
javispedroDamion2: why do you think they keep a list?22:49
timeless_mbpiirc we cheat22:49
timeless_mbpbut historically we didn't22:49
timeless_mbpwhich meant you'd die way too easily22:49
javispedromoo woglinde22:49
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp: I thought it was a clever solution :-)22:49
woglindejavis edward nevielle rockz22:49
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Damion2javispedro: I think most will work if they save in the right place22:49
timeless_mbpShadowJK: illegal i believe, but yeah, it's a pretty nice hack22:49
woglindehe pushed thumbee support into openjdk22:49
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jophishI guess that there is no way I can resize the home partition while inside maemo22:50
javispedrowoglinde: nice22:50
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javispedrowoglinde: have url?22:50
ShadowJKis there actual current limiting to 500mA on N900 side?22:51
ShadowJKor does it take what it can get..22:51
Damion2javispedro: you write a byte to /EyeFi/XXXX (I forget the XXXX name) and moments later anotther file in that directory shows a list of detected access points.  it's all rather funky22:51
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lcukyou cannt get certified as a usb host device afaik if you supply more than 500ma22:51
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lcukShadikka, ^22:51
lcukShadowJK even22:51
woglindejavispedro here bugfixing sruff22:52
woglindejavis -> http://icedtea.classpath.org/hg/icedtea6/rev/ab2479dd2f8722:52
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javispedrowoglinde: pretty ironic Zero gained architecture specific support :)22:52
ShadowJKin practice lots of computers have no overcurrent protection, or then they just have one limiter for all ports22:52
timeless_mbpShadowJK: we take 1.2mA from our 'usb charger'22:52
woglindejavis I will test it22:53
cehtehmA? :)22:53
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timeless_mbp1.2A22:53
timeless_mbpwhatever22:53
timeless_mbpwhat's 1000x between friends?22:53
woglindewhen I have oe opendjdk support in shape22:53
cehtehforever you mean .. what charging would take22:53
cehtehhehe22:53
GeneralAntillesThe new server messages are weirding me out.22:53
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SpeedEvilhttp://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/02/01/1555206/Nokia-N900-Linux-Smartphone-Running-OS-X?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher23:02
ifreqsigh23:02
ifreq"cool"23:02
iPeter-Hey how can i change format of date and time on maemo 5?23:02
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timeless_mbpsp3000: progress23:03
timeless_mbp# Summary: 9 / 5323:03
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timeless_mbpso, that just leaves me w/ the annoying strings23:05
* timeless_mbp tries to decide how to deal w/ 'to'23:05
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* javispedro is surprised the first think a supposed geek criticizes about the n900 "debianness" is the /etc/sudoers23:06
javispedro(on slashdot article)23:06
Stskeeps...23:06
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timeless_mbpjavispedro: you mean that you have to use /etc/sudoers.d/ ?23:06
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timeless_mbp(and update-sudoers)23:06
javispedrotimeless: http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1532544&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=30985824#3098613023:07
pupnikall intelligence flees http23:07
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timeless_mbphrm23:08
javispedro"from what I read online". Even more weird. No one in Slashdot is criticizing the "debinannes" of the N900 (in fact the grandposter is saying "it has a sane filesystem layout")23:08
iPeter-Is there any own N900 channel where to ask questions bout maemo and how tos23:09
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, clearly Nokia shills.23:10
javispedroGeneralAntilles: that, or no one has it yet.23:10
pupnikiPeter-: yes, ##n900 but it hasn't become popular23:10
Stskeepsor #maemo-users ?23:10
iPeter-Damn23:10
Stskeepsnm23:10
javispedrothough someone hints at the monster behind the facade, quietly: "although N900 had me at 'df -h'".23:10
woglindedamn classpath23:11
pupnikstill getting badsig from maemo.org... :(23:11
iPeter-But how to change date style, i have language on english but region setting on Finland, still it shows time like 02/01/10, it should show 01/02/10, where to change it on N90023:12
SpeedEvilyou can't23:12
SpeedEvilat least yet23:12
jebbain evince on maemo5 how do you get out of full screen view?23:12
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SpeedEviljebba: I find camerad helps with that23:13
pupnikW: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG E40DC434616730BD maemo.org23:13
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SpeedEviljebba: also ctrl-enter?23:13
iPeter-jebba: Press power button, if you are running example nes emulator and want to close it press power button for options23:13
javispedropupnik: they're signing packages now!! O.o23:13
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javispedrojebba: or the builtin ctrl-backspace, but I think you know that already. If this the same diablo source package then there's no other fullscreen hotkey iirc.23:14
jebbaya, i can close it, i just want to keep viewing it in evince but not in fullscreen.  It's definitely not F11 like in regular evince ;)23:14
jophishdoes the maemo kernel support inline resizing?23:14
iPeter-Whats best media player for Maemo5?23:14
javispedrojebba: try the diablo F623:14
jophishonline*23:14
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jebbathis is just whatever evince is in maemo-extras*23:15
asj_http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1532544&cid=30984582 -- who would have thought you would hear such praise about a Nokia phone ;)23:15
javispedrohum.. not same version as in diablo, so dunno.23:15
jophishalso, would the following partition table be valid, and would swap be mounted correctly?23:15
Jophish_n900http://pastebin.com/m3248f90b23:15
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javispedroasj_: that's exactly the nokia shill we where discussing just a few minutes ago :)23:16
javispedros/where/were, s/we/I :)23:16
pupnikno idea how to fix this - teh googles are not helping23:17
javispedropupnik: if they just started signing packages, the key they used must be lying around somewhere23:17
Veggenmmf.23:17
pupnikthis error has been happening since at least december 14 javispedro23:18
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javispedropupnik: are you completely sure, or was it "a slightly diferent error" talking about missing pgp signature?23:18
Veggenmmf. my enter in xterm is buggy..23:18
Veggennorwegian layout.23:19
pupnikthe BADSIG matches  http://ibot.rikers.org/%23maemo/20091214.html.gz23:19
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jebbaah cool, SpeedEvil  ctrl-enter does it on evince. thx!  :)23:20
Damion2Veggen: known bug23:20
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Veggenah. probably will be fixed then?23:20
jebbahmm, but you can't zoom in full screen mode  (?).23:21
Damion2sorry don't know23:21
Damion2presumably23:22
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Damion2I've mapped it in vim other apps don't tend to care, such as irssi23:22
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jophishhmm, I have a feeling bad things are about to happen. I have used sfdisk to expand the mmcblk0p1 partition to take up all the space up to the swap, made p2 size 0,23:24
jophishresisize2fs isn't resizing p1 to fill the partition23:24
javispedrojophish: have you read the numerous threads in talk.maemo.org about repartitioning?23:25
javispedrolike, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3786923:25
jophishI have been through them a bit23:25
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Damion2diskpart needed to sync kernel's cached idea of the partition?23:26
jophishhmm?23:26
Damion2or is it partprobe23:27
Damion2the script/walkthrough I read had a few reboots23:27
Damion2which achieves the same without crosscompiling partprobe23:27
jophishI have used sfdisk to change the internal card to the following:23:27
Jophish_n900http://pastebin.com/m3248f90b23:28
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jophishshouldn't resize2fs on /dev/mmcblk0p1 expand it to fill the remaining space in it's partition?23:28
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Damion2yeah but unless the kernel outputted a fresh idea of the partition like when you plug an mmc in, I doubt it'll work23:28
JaffaVeggen: You can use Ctrl-M - it's a known bug23:28
Damion2dmesg?23:28
jophishah of course23:28
jophishand partprobe isn't here23:29
javispedroso, reboot.23:29
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JaffaVeggen: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=600923:29
povbotBug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications23:29
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Damion2of course it might not come up now23:29
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jophishfingers crossed then23:29
jophishthanks23:29
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t-tanjophish: if you want to shrink the ext3 parition you can do it before mounting it in rcS-late23:30
jophishoh, that's a good trick23:31
jophishLinux is so brilliant23:31
javispedrot-tan: what does happen if I comment that line on rcS-late. does it boot normally, putting the files in / ?23:31
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t-tanjophish: you might find some inspiration in my modifications of the scripts in http://www.maemory.com/N900/misc/mmc/23:31
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t-tanjophish: but backup first!23:31
t-tanjavispedro: sorry, which line?23:32
javispedrot-tan: mount /home.23:32
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t-tanjavispedro: IIRC it means REFLASH23:33
javispedrobut for unknown causes?23:33
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javispedrothe rootfs fills?23:33
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pupnikthat's a 'great' one Jaffa >_<23:34
jophisht-tan, all is hunky-dory, I now have a nice big ext3 home partition23:34
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t-tanjavispedro: I think it crashes at "mkdir /home/user" without the -p23:34
pupnikand when it gets fixed, we get to switch back SDL programs to use Enter23:34
javispedro??? /home exists in rootfs, and /home/user would succeed then.23:34
jophishnow to create symlinks23:35
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jophishyour script is very useful by the way t-tan23:35
t-tanjavispedro: you right23:35
javispedroI should try that some day. Just put in /usr/sbin/sshd & sleep 50 there and see what's going on23:35
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t-tanjavispedro: good luck! :)23:36
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pupnikJ.S. Bach - Chromatic Fantasies ... +++23:45
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jophishpupnik, my favourite Bach piece23:48
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pupnikbbiab23:49
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