IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-01-27

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blizzow	does anyone know if Nokia is taking the reigns on releasing MMS support for the N900 eventually?	00:00
henkie-	there we go	00:01
timeless_mbp	oh	00:01
* timeless_mbp finds the dialog		00:01
timeless_mbp	yeah, that's cute	00:01
timeless_mbp	there's no way this is going to work	00:01
timeless_mbp	anyway, once you get a happy picture of the string not fitting at all	00:02
timeless_mbp	please file a bug @ bugs.maemo.org and attach the picture	00:02
timeless_mbp	it's in um	00:02
henkie-	just did	00:02
cpscotti	henkie- the screenshots go to "Images" folder	00:02
henkie-	yeah, just mounted the usb-storage	00:02
timeless_mbp	cpscotti: he's using Dutch	00:03
cpscotti	wooops...	00:03
timeless_mbp	Afbeeldingen	00:03
timeless_mbp	the actual directory is .images	00:04
timeless_mbp	then Screenshots	00:04
cpscotti	yeep	00:04
* timeless_mbp frowns		00:05
* timeless_mbp has no idea what this is doing		00:05
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* timeless_mbp debates asking for specs		00:05
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lardman	re	00:05
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Damion2	paul42: is your volume down?	00:08
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lcuk	blizzow, the mms project is principally in a community mode, i would consider asking frals more when he thinks he is ready to do some integration work :) its entirely prototype at this stage.	00:10
* lardman wonders if half the conversations in this channel are simply missed by his "wonderful" client		00:11
lcuk	and ontop of that request, i hope you have tested it yourself and added your settings to the thread/wiki page growing up around his amazing project	00:11
paul42	Damion2: It's not mute	00:11
henkie-	http://ev18.kicks-ass.org/n900/ found	00:11
henkie-	+them	00:11
lcuk	lardman, which client you using	00:11
frals	lardman: the key is to scrollup and read backlog ;>	00:12
henkie-	Screenshot-20100126-230109.png shows the text not fitting	00:12
Damion2	paul42: in my experience alsamixer helps, even if suff looks up often some audio channel somewhere is down	00:12
Jaffa	lardman: I think you'll find the answer is	00:12
Jaffa	lardman: Hopefully that makes it clear.	00:12
Jaffa	lardman: like qgil just said	00:13
* Jaffa muwahahahas		00:13
frals	haha	00:13
Damion2	I think I can make mms work but it's not pretty	00:13
lardman	virc	00:13
lcuk	Damion2, then liase with the principle developer whos talking here right now \@/	00:13
lardman	hmm, I see nothing relevant, only joined at ~20.30	00:13
Damion2	logic with whether dialed on to wifi and brining up -host route for gprs0	00:13
Damion2	I mentioned I'd do some shell for the logic	00:14
lardman	but then am doing something else, do don't worry	00:14
paul42	Damion2: hmmm, there's just one channel, up	00:14
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Damion2	paul42: that's exhausted my knowledge/caring ;)	00:15
paul42	ok, thanks :)	00:15
frals	Damion2: keep me posted on ways to bring gprs0 up when wlan0/gprs1 is up without breaking stuff :)	00:15
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lardman	Jaffa: did that make sense? Is that your drinking or mine? ;)	00:15
Damion2	gprs should never be needed if already up. unless there are providers who don't share APN	00:16
paul42	Oh, BTW, another question which is not related at all	00:16
frals	Damion2: a lot of them dont :p	00:16
paul42	What the best way to reach the GPS (in C++)	00:16
* lardman wonders if perhaps it's all happening in a different #maemo-* channel....		00:16
paul42	I've heard about gpsd, geoclue	00:16
Damion2	paul42: you could try killing PA and testing, you'll probably need to reboot after	00:16
VDVsx	lardman, nah, its your "wonderful" client :D	00:16
* VDVsx is kidding		00:16
lardman	paul42: liblocation	00:16
RST38h	sleep.	00:17
paul42	Damion2: I've tried. Doesn't help because alsa is trying to reach PA	00:17
ScribbleJ	#maemo-nolardman	00:17
paul42	lardman: and what about dbus?	00:17
lardman	VDVsx: may well be, I've had people cursing me for not responding to PMs when my client wouldn't bother displaying them	00:17
lardman	ScribbleJ: ah that one, ok ;)	00:17
Damion2	frals: a lot of provider suggest different APN but it would work anyway? or a lot _require_ different APN?	00:17
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henkie-	but anyway, screenshots dont solve my lockcode problem :)	00:17
* RST38h reads "not responding to PMS"		00:17
VDVsx	lardman, what are you using ?	00:17
lardman	paul42: what do you want to do with it?	00:17
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* RST38h goes to sleep happy		00:17
ScribbleJ	lardman: xchat FTW	00:17
lardman	RST38h: that too!	00:17
* Damion2 idles for heroes with wife		00:18
frals	Damion2: judging by the amount of people complaining about settings im fairly sure they require different APN, i could be wrong though :)	00:18
lardman	Running under WinXP atm and xchat is not free under Windows unless you compile it yourself, at least last time I checked	00:18
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paul42	lardman: I just want to know how to have the coordinates of the user	00:18
paul42	lardman: for Fennec	00:18
ScribbleJ	lardman, fair enough... run it on your maemo device! :P	00:18
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lardman	frals: I must admit I've had troubles too, though haven't complained because I need to RTFM first	00:18
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Damion2	frals: they moan as it IS a pain, doesn't mean they tried ;)	00:19
lcuk	lardman, xchat2 afaik	00:19
henkie-	timeless_mbp, still need me to send the screenshot to bug @ ... ?	00:19
lcuk	is prebuilt	00:19
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lcuk	from normal source	00:19
lardman	paul42: liblocation callback is probably the best way, not sure if you can activate the GPS using dbus	00:19
VDVsx	lardman, http://www.silverex.org/news/	00:19
frals	Damion2: true	00:19
lardman	lcuk: and free too?	00:19
frals	lardman: hehe, just ping me if you need help ;)	00:19
timeless_mbp	henkie-: yes	00:19
timeless_mbp	you need to file a bug	00:19
henkie-	ok	00:19
timeless_mbp	i mean, you could make me do it	00:19
timeless_mbp	but you found it	00:19
lardman	frals: will do, need to check on the Vodafone UK mms settings first though	00:20
frals	im looking forward to pushing this next release which breaks stuff horribly wrt old messages stored	00:20
henkie-	sending an email is no problem	00:20
lardman	frals: np here as I've not actually received one yet ;)	00:20
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lcuk	lardman, from his site "I am making an unofficial free X-Chat (UNIX IRC client) build for Windows, compiled on Windows XP SP2 with Microsoft Visual Studio .NET 2003 Enterprise Architect C/C++ compiler."	00:20
timeless_mbp	henkie-: not email	00:21
lcuk	http://www.silverex.org/features/	00:21
timeless_mbp	visit https://bugs.maemo.org	00:21
lardman	lcuk: cool, thanks	00:21
timeless_mbp	create an account	00:21
timeless_mbp	file a bug	00:21
timeless_mbp	after you've created the bug, create an attachment	00:21
timeless_mbp	http://ev18.kicks-ass.org/n900/Screenshot-20100126-230113.png	00:21
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timeless_mbp	is the one that matters	00:21
timeless_mbp	please describe exactly which locale/region you're using and exactly which things you hit	00:22
timeless_mbp	(tap top left corner, tap 'Instellingen', tap the title area)	00:22
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timeless_mbp	it's awful fwiw	00:23
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timeless_mbp	they recycled a string, which is totally illegal	00:23
timeless_mbp	for exactly this reason	00:23
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* lardman hopes this binary isn't one of lcuk's CC scam keyloggers ;)		00:24
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dotblank	ok	00:24
lcuk	nahh but timeless provided a translation which includes a block of shellcode to the same effect ;)	00:24
dotblank	Now this may seem a bit crazy	00:24
dotblank	but here is my vell phone solution/crazyness	00:25
dotblank	Please ignore the crudeness of my drawing	00:25
timeless_mbp	lcuk: well, my translations add a sudo script :)	00:25
lardman	lcuk: I've come to expect that from timeless's translations by now	00:25
dotblank	cell*	00:25
henkie-	oops :)	00:25
dotblank	http://imgur.com/sTKY0.jpg	00:25
* timeless_mbp frowns		00:25
timeless_mbp	henkie-: fwiw	00:26
timeless_mbp	i have that menu item too	00:26
timeless_mbp	i suspect it's a bug	00:26
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timeless_mbp	it probably shouldn't be appearing at all	00:26
dotblank	My cell phone setup is mad crazy	00:26
timeless_mbp	but that's an unrelated problem :(	00:26
lardman	good good	00:26
lcuk	dotblank, im sensing since gtalk is part of issue 1#,#2 and #3 that there is a common thing	00:26
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timeless_mbp	henkie-: this dialog should be for when your operator subsidizes the purchase of your phone	00:27
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dotblank	lcuk, this set up doesnot use gtalk at all	00:27
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timeless_mbp	and after your 2 year subscription you say "hey, i've paid for my phone, i'd like you to give me the sim unlock so i can use it w/ another carrier"	00:27
henkie-	timeless_mbp, aha, makes sense	00:27
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timeless_mbp	henkie-: anyway	00:27
timeless_mbp	once you've filed the "this doesn't fit" bug	00:27
lcuk	s/gtalk/gvoice/	00:27
infobot	lcuk meant: dotblank, im sensing since gvoice is part of issue 1#,#2 and #3 that there is a common thing	00:27
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timeless_mbp	you're welcome to file the "why are you showing me a menu item for a non locked phone" bug	00:27
lcuk	holy crap i did a regex properly \o/	00:28
dotblank	Well the problem is that 3 fold.. skype doesnt like dtmf tones on the n900 dialpad	00:28
frals	congrats lcuk ;D	00:28
timeless_mbp	henkie-: fwiw, there are rewards for filing bugs	00:28
dotblank	Tmo prepaid will not let me set my voicemail to gvoice	00:28
henkie-	timeless_mbp, you are right. The found the real unlock code at the bottom of the settings menu :)	00:29
henkie-	works like a charm	00:29
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timeless_mbp	i presume you mean something in 'Phone'	00:29
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dotblank	I would forward gvoice to skype verizon and n900 but n900 will get the skype call and miss the landline.. which is ok but it generates missed call events and it is random with what service reaches my phone first	00:30
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mikhas	lcuk, only for you: http://xkcd.com/208/ (obligatory)	00:30
* timeless_mbp kicks finland		00:30
timeless_mbp	at least 12 hours, on more than 24	00:30
timeless_mbp	is translated 12-23	00:31
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timeless_mbp	they lost an hour in translation	00:31
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henkie-	timeless_mbp, different timezone i'd guess :P	00:31
lcuk	:D mikhas amazing! xkcd has an answer for everything	00:31
timeless_mbp	henkie-: NCIS, Rock Creek Park, Washington, D.C.	00:31
timeless_mbp	so yes, different time zone :)	00:31
henkie-	translations always/most of the time look 'plastic'	00:32
lcuk	dotblank, so individually all the providers "work" its just cos you are trying to route them up each others backends it fails	00:33
lcuk	?	00:33
timeless_mbp	henkie-: eh?	00:33
dotblank	lcuk, each provider works.. its just im trying to unify it under gvoice	00:33
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Jaffa	lardman: And that's when the bishop said "not in my church!"	00:35
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lardman	hmm :)	00:35
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dotblank	I could set a forwarding filter on gvoice but skypes caller id inbound is the callers' caller id which makes it impossible	00:36
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ph1l	i have a question about flasher-3.5 and the option -b, --boot[=ARG] -> anybody know if this replaces the whole kernel-argument-list within NOLO or is this a temporary thing?	00:38
ph1l	does it overwrite the init= argument?	00:39
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Stskeeps	ph1l: honestly i'm not sure if the arg works for the kernel.	00:41
Stskeeps	especailly since CMDLINE is hardcoded in kernels	00:41
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timeless_mbp	iirc it's temporary	00:42
ph1l	is there a more detailed explanation of the options of flasher-3.5 than http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher?	00:42
timeless_mbp	but do not trust me	00:42
Stskeeps	ph1l: no, but feel free to ask them on maemo-developers	00:42
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* timeless_mbp doesn't really use flasher		00:42
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ph1l	anybody willing to assist me when i have to reflash NOLO? :-)	00:43
ph1l	thanks Stskeeps and timeless_mbp	00:43
Stskeeps	not really. i don't believe in assisted device suicide.	00:43
timeless_mbp	i'm not sure this is covered by your warranty :)	00:44
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps++	00:44
ds3	isn't there JTAG? ;)	00:44
ph1l	nah.. its for good pourposes :-)	00:44
__ibz	whats the command to enable the voice dialler on rotate?	00:44
ds3	or maybe SD boot?	00:44
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jon1012	__ibz: voice dialer ?!	00:46
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* lardman tries some super-resolution stitching magic		00:51
lardman	CSI-stylee	00:51
lcuk	on the shelf behind you	00:51
lcuk	there, zoom into the bar area	00:51
lardman	nah, already got a beer on the go, thanks	00:52
lardman	:)	00:52
lcuk	ok, now closer on that bottle	00:52
woglinde	hi lcuk	00:52
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mikhas	to be fair, it was bladerunner that started that	00:52
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lcuk	good, now i see its a 1972, excellent, zoom rotate	00:52
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lcuk	and drink	00:52
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lardman	hmm, I wonder what an IR image of a cold beer bottle would look like, dark I imagine	00:52
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lcuk	hi woglinde	00:52
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* lardman must remember to take a beer to the lab for testing purposes		00:53
lcuk	haha	00:53
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__ibz	jon1012: like this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eZu3nku2uM	01:00
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__ibz	jon1012: 20s in	01:01
__ibz	ah, i meant phone dialer, not voice dialer	01:01
lardman	lcuk: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/temp/untitled.jpg and we wonder why the yank miss with their predator drones ;)	01:02
lardman	s/yank/yanks	01:02
lardman	s/yanks/lovely Americans	01:02
lardman	;)	01:02
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mikhas	is that a bottle of beer?	01:05
lardman	no, my office	01:05
lardman	though quite hard to tell ;)	01:05
lardman	is a low res camera	01:05
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lcuk	lardman, ir cam?	01:06
lardman	yep	01:06
andre__	hmm, where does the media player on the N900 stores the playlists?	01:06
lcuk	n900+colored lens or real one?	01:06
lardman	real microbolometer array IR long wave camera	01:07
lcuk	neat! as always, science being used for the proper purposes	01:07
lcuk	andre__, ooo not sure dude	01:07
lardman	and long wave as in significanly shorter than you get by removing the IR filter in a normal CCD camera	01:07
lcuk	i dont make them	01:07
* andre__ not the first person asking this, found an answered thread in tmo too		01:08
lardman	andre__: gconf?	01:08
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andre__	now that's a funky idea, let's see...	01:08
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andre__	hmm, cannot see a schema for that	01:09
lardman	twas just a guess, sorry	01:10
GeneralAntilles	blizzow, no.	01:10
GeneralAntilles	blizzow, Nokia has no plans to support MMS.	01:10
GeneralAntilles	blizzow, however they are endeavoring to support the community support.	01:10
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GeneralAntilles	ds3, serial pads under the battery.	01:13
GeneralAntilles	andre__, somewhere in MAFW? :P	01:13
ds3	GA: thought there were JTAG pads too?	01:13
ds3	on the N800, I think	01:14
andre__	...or tracker :-P	01:14
henkie-	is PyQT4 available for this platform?	01:14
GeneralAntilles	ds3, don't think there are enough pins.	01:14
ds3	I've used the serial pads on the 800 before	01:14
ds3	hmm	01:15
GeneralAntilles	ds3, USB, serial, and something else for cellular stuff, I think.	01:15
GeneralAntilles	ds3, the are 3 sets of pads.	01:15
VDVsx	henkie-, yes	01:15
GeneralAntilles	ds3, could be JTAG, dunno, though.	01:15
VDVsx	extras-devel IIRC	01:15
ds3	GA: which model?	01:16
* GeneralAntilles is still a touch too noob at this to say for sure.		01:16
GeneralAntilles	ds3, N900.	01:16
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GeneralAntilles	Ehehe	01:17
* GeneralAntilles ponders evil things about iPhone OS MacBooks.		01:17
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javispedro	ah, they're still optimist about harmattan in the rover.	01:20
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ShadowJK	who?	01:21
javispedro	tmo.	01:21
ShadowJK	Yes well, considering the average TMO quality lately, I wouldn't be surprise they'd still be optimistic about the earth being flat	01:22
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lardman	and next you;re going to say it;s not riding on the back of a giant tortoise aren't you?	01:23
lardman	or even sugges that the apostrophe is better used to indicate a missing letter than the semi-colon....	01:24
ml-mobile	how many pads are there per set?	01:24
javispedro	where is that ovi maps free thread? I am bored and want to slam someone's optimism.	01:24
LuserN800	I'm about to buy from tigertiger, anyone has opinion on them?	01:24
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GeneralAntilles	ml-mobile, I'd tell you, but my uptime is over 10 days and I don't feel like taking out the battery. ;)	01:25
ml-mobile	aha	01:25
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andre__	javispedro, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ovi+maps+free+site%3Atalk.maemo.org&l=1 ? ;-)	01:26
VDVsx	javispedro, harmattan in the 770 FTW ;)	01:26
javispedro	andre__: what did you do! now I have even more incentive to troll :)	01:26
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* jon1012 hopes android will be available soon for his n900 :)		01:28
jon1012	at least there are some decent mapping stuff on android	01:28
thresh	yeah screw maemo, java ftw	01:28
jon1012	:D	01:28
javispedro	this remembers me when people bought palmos devices then asked for windows mobile	01:28
woglinde	thresh java should work	01:28
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ml-mobile	nothing like mireing oneself in Java...	01:28
woglinde	maybee in march we have little more time to work on jalimo	01:29
thresh	that's what IBM folks keep telling us when their RSA software breaks	01:29
mikhas	I am not going to trade the speed and responsiveness of the latest fw updates for android!	01:29
javispedro	well if you bought the horribly overpriced palm just to put windows mobile in it, you surely deserve wm.	01:29
* thresh loved his T5		01:29
woglinde	javis lol	01:29
* VDVsx thinks that java sucks		01:30
* VDVsx hides		01:30
jon1012	(I bought the n900 but I've been a bit disapointed :(... maybe android will help me with that :))	01:30
thresh	it had iphone-sized screen in 2004	01:30
andre__	mikhas: pah, you're biased! probably your company even earns some money with Maemo or so! ;-))	01:30
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inz	VDVsx, java is still a bliss when compared to javascript...	01:31
thresh	now now don't you like your firefox?	01:31
ml-mobile	inz: that's because Javascript and Java are totally unrelated	01:31
luke-jr	anyone up for porting Linux to LG Apollo? 8)	01:32
LuserN800	well it has java still in the name ;)	01:32
VDVsx	inz, has java in the name what would you expect ;)	01:32
inz	thresh, not after "having" to code an extension it for a school project	01:32
luke-jr	ECMAScript is far better than Java, actually <.<	01:32
jon1012	let's hope maemo 6 will get official release for n900 :)	01:33
ml-mobile	I didn't realize how many pads were open on this thing. there's easily space for serial and JTAG	01:33
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inz	ml-mobile, no, it's because JavaSCript just sucks. Java does too, but not quite as much. (Yes, I know they're unrelated, but that's not the reason why Java is a bliss)	01:33
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ph1l	anybody interested in bootchart nad N900... i've written a tutorial: https://arch.nord.thebc.ch/wiki/index.php/N900_Installing_and_using_Bootchart comments welcome :-)	01:33
luke-jr	jon1012: it won't	01:33
lcuk	who still uses the n8x0	01:33
jon1012	luke-jr: ???	01:33
LuserN800	ph1l, ahh good!	01:34
luke-jr	jon1012: Nokia has already made that clear. Maemo 6 will not support N900	01:34
inz	VDVsx, yeah, doesn't that mean you should multiply the suckiness of Java by the suckiness of Script =)	01:34
mikhas	there once was a language called bliss ... want to know what happened to it?	01:34
jon1012	luke-jr: I bought a 650 euro device and I won't get any update ? I'll just put it in my ass and nothing more ? :)	01:34
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luke-jr	jon1012: that's how Nokia plays	01:34
GeneralAntilles	jon1012, you've already gotten 2 updates.	01:34
lcuk	jon1012, with the vibration unit onboard that might be feasible	01:34
woglinde	luke-jr hm when was this annoucement?	01:34
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, fun fact, there are, apparently, conflicting reports about it now.	01:34
thresh	luke-jr: URL pls	01:34
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: O.o	01:35
VDVsx	inz, lol	01:35
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, though my money is still on "not".	01:35
jon1012	maemo device hasn't had videos of destruction by angry customers like apple device had...	01:35
javispedro	GeneralAntilles++	01:35
jon1012	it might be the first !	01:35
javispedro	yes please!	01:35
jon1012	it could do a lot of buzz	01:35
lcuk	jon1012, actually..	01:35
javispedro	will it blend?	01:35
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: isn't that what you were ranting about in here earlier?	01:35
lcuk	world record n900fly would be good	01:35
mikhas	there was that scratch-my-display test on youtube, no?	01:35
lcuk	trebuchet!	01:35
GeneralAntilles	jon1012, if it aint Blendtec then GTFO.	01:35
jon1012	lol	01:35
mtnbkr	lcuk: yes!	01:35
lcuk	nahhh	01:35
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, yup.	01:35
VDVsx	there's one language called brainfuck, I can't expect anything better :D	01:35
LuserN800	ph1l, why does it look so much different that the one posted yesterday. like what's all these pidof???	01:35
luke-jr	anyhow, it's starting to look like LG Apollo will be my next device	01:35
lcuk	n900 would survive a blentec piece of crap	01:36
javispedro	yes	01:36
javispedro	definitely.	01:36
lcuk	their weak blades wouldnt manage it	01:36
lcuk	piffly motor	01:36
javispedro	the vibrator unit would help the n900 make its way outside the blendtec	01:36
lcuk	theres no hope	01:36
jon1012	lol	01:36
lcuk	thats why we havent seen one yet	01:36
jon1012	a hammer is better	01:36
lardman	n900 also has a titanium backplate to stop such abuse?	01:36
ph1l	LuserN800: these pidof came from bootchartd itself... don't worry about them :-)	01:36
mtnbkr	ok, so maybe no Maemo6 for my shiney new n900, but how long will Nokia continue to maintain/update Maemo5? That is my big concern	01:36
jon1012	mtnbkr: I would say 3 months ?	01:37
luke-jr	jon1012: if you're really upset over it, I'll pay shipping for it :P	01:37
GeneralAntilles	Doesn't non-free promotion already work? . . .	01:37
luke-jr	mtnbkr: Nokia's history says they'll stop maintaining 5 before 6 is out	01:37
jon1012	mtnbkr: then they will tell us to fuck ourselves with a sharp glass	01:37
javispedro	basically, the blendtec guy tried to blend the n900 but he got killed by the laser hidden under the CIR emitter cover.	01:37
mtnbkr	luke-jr: lol THAT sucks I hope that is not the case with Maemo5	01:37
ShadowJK	hm, when was the last N8x0 update, and when did N900 come out? :)	01:37
lcuk	no wai javispedro	01:38
luke-jr	mtnbkr: I hear rumours it's already the case.	01:38
LuserN800	ph1l, 235s!!! ??	01:38
lcuk	:(	01:38
mtnbkr	ARG!	01:38
lardman	javispedro: was that before the cyanide capsule got him?	01:38
mtnbkr	:(	01:38
GeneralAntilles	mtnbkr, biker, PR1.2 is confirmed, the stars tell me more (and possibly larger) are likely to come after.	01:38
* woglinde wonders how many android-updates G1 will have in the future		01:38
luke-jr	ShadowJK: last N8x0 update was 2.6.21 timeframe, so at least 2 years ago	01:38
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lcuk	lardman, you have to flex the display to release the neurotoxins	01:38
ShadowJK	luke-jr, nah it was 2008 sometime..	01:38
lcuk	so it wouldnt have been that	01:38
luke-jr	ShadowJK: it's 2010 :)	01:38
lcuk	we have only had one reported emmission	01:38
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, yeah, no.	01:38
lcuk	and superman is still pissed at us for that	01:38
lardman	luke-jr: kernel versionrelease data and maemo update date are not the same	01:38
ShadowJK	luke-jr, what, really?	01:38
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, they just didn't update the kernel.	01:39
ShadowJK	oh fuck me, it really is 2010	01:39
javispedro	my current prediction is that harmattan will be delayed and that we may get a larger fremantle update.	01:39
javispedro	though who knows that.	01:39
jon1012	for example, htc hero will get android 2.1.. htc seems to care more about its customers than nokia :(	01:39
lardman	hmm, I though there was an update in 2009...?	01:39
lardman	lcuk: blue ringed octopus stuff there iirc?	01:39
luke-jr	lardman: I bought my N810 in Jan 2009; Diablo was already out	01:39
ShadowJK	I think it was week 42 in 2008 or something	01:39
ph1l	LuserN800: yeah... i've defined that bootchart should stop recording when i open a "browser".	01:39
GeneralAntilles	Please see the tablet here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo#Future	01:39
javispedro	there haven't been diablo ssus since december 2008	01:39
lardman	luke-jr: fair enough	01:39
thresh	jon1012: nokia never cared about its customers	01:39
ShadowJK	oh it was december 2008?	01:39
javispedro	yep, i bought my n810 by then.	01:40
ph1l	LuserN800: do you know a better trigger let me know	01:40
lcuk	thanks GeneralAntilles	01:40
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GeneralAntilles	s/tablet/table/	01:40
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Please see the table here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo#Future	01:40
luke-jr	I couldn't care less when Nokia abandons devices, if only they'd release the specs/code to support the hardware	01:40
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javispedro	as I always say, the day I buy a device, they it is abandoned by the manufacturer.	01:40
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, Inverna is missing ;)	01:41
javispedro	s/they/the day	01:41
jon1012	thresh: true.... I can remember having been mad at nokia because 3 months after buying my 770 they released a new device with a new os that wouldn't work on my tablet...	01:41
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, feel free to fix it yourself, Wikipedia is no longer a project I invest time contributing to.	01:41
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LuserN800	I'm about to buy from Tigerdirect, anyone has good/bad opinion on them? I order rarely from the us but want a qwerty keyboard	01:41
GeneralAntilles	LuserN800, eeeeeeviiiiiiiil	01:42
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, neither I, they suck, with their censorship policy, bastards!!	01:42
LuserN800	GeneralAntilles, :) tell me more. it runs windows? :)	01:42
jon1012	LuserN800: why buy a device that is already outdated ? :)	01:42
javispedro	oh.	01:42
jon1012	ahah, well I stop trolling :)	01:42
GeneralAntilles	jon1012, Maemo 6 aint released yet.	01:42
javispedro	devices usually get more interesting by the time they're outdated.	01:43
LuserN800	jon1012, I am always a bit slow to react	01:43
GeneralAntilles	jon1012, and as I've already said, you can expect several more updates in the future.	01:43
lardman	sod it I'd buy another Psion 5(mx) just for the calendar	01:43
mtnbkr	GeneralAntilles: that's good news to my ears	01:43
mtnbkr	s/ears/eyes	01:43
GeneralAntilles	They should be much larger in scale than PR1.1, too.	01:43
luke-jr	s/news/speculation ?	01:43
jon1012	GeneralAntilles: really ?	01:43
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, scrollback.	01:44
javispedro	PR1.2 might have some more rotation support, for example.	01:44
LuserN800	jon1012, if it was serious then I think you are wrong..	01:44
mtnbkr	I'd like to see a properly functional IMAP email client on my n900	01:44
thresh	i wonder why nokia doesnt ship theora in gstreamer by default	01:44
thresh	pissed of due to patents issues?	01:44
ml-mobile	little use?	01:44
lardman	thresh: worries about submarine patents	01:44
lardman	?	01:44
thresh	yeah	01:44
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thresh	probably	01:44
javispedro	and they also want to promote aac.	01:45
thresh	stupid big companies :S	01:45
lardman	ask derf	01:45
ml-mobile	anyone who wants theora will add it themselves	01:45
lardman	adding video codecs is a pita though really	01:45
ml-mobile	saved me rootfs sace by not including it	01:45
jon1012	(don't get me wrong, I'm a real maemo advocate at work, for friends and all... but nokia sometimes pisses me off a lot)	01:45
ml-mobile	space*	01:45
GeneralAntilles	jon1012, join the club.	01:45
LuserN800	so I'll order from tigerdirect yes, you all convinced me	01:45
javispedro	jon1012: god! so you're not a fanboy.	01:45
javispedro	s/god/good	01:45
lardman	s/adding/writing to use DSP	01:45
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GeneralAntilles	jon1012, Nokia's been pissing me off for more than 4 years.	01:46
thresh	cortex a8 is capable of decoding some 720p	01:46
lardman	yeah, mpeg though I imagine	01:46
thresh	at least that's what ffmpeg guys achieved on beagleboard:)	01:46
thresh	no, h264	01:46
woglinde	lol thats fun to control windows-keyboard via kvm konsole	01:46
lardman	ah yes, using DSP though I thought?	01:46
GeneralAntilles	It was MPEG4 (part 2) with NEON last time I checked.	01:47
thresh	i'd say neon stuff	01:47
* luke-jr wonders why people pissed off by Nokia still promote their products?		01:47
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GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, because they're worlds ahead of the competition.	01:47
woglinde	for beagleboard exist dsp h264 stuff	01:47
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, and I'd like to see Maemo succeed despite its warts.	01:47
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, pragmatism.	01:48
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: oh, for the software?	01:48
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ShadowJK	ffmpeg doesn't use DSP	01:48
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woglinde	ShadowJK I know	01:49
GeneralAntilles	Maemo gets us Mer which gets us a mobile platform which isn't either completely useless (Anything using Enlightenment) or completely evil (Android, LiMo, etc.).	01:49
ShadowJK	mpeg4 part 2 is xvid/divx/mpeg4ASP isn't it..	01:49
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GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, yes.	01:49
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: KDE?	01:49
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GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, um, I can use KDE with my fingers?	01:49
luke-jr	yes?	01:49
* javispedro notes GeneralAntilles failed to specify finger size		01:50
ml-mobile	KDE is not designed for small screens. hell the standard desktop UI concept isn't	01:50
javispedro	and/or screen size	01:50
luke-jr	KDE is configurable	01:51
javispedro	yes, you can actually use kcontrol to edit the dialog layouts so that they all fit into 800x480!	01:51
woglinde	javis g	01:52
lcuk	javispedro, http://pickmeup.mlblogs.com/fb.jpg	01:52
javispedro	lcuk: my sources tell me that is the finger size harmattan ux people aim for >:)	01:53
lcuk	i want one of the 4foot n900s from the nokia store	01:53
lcuk	but a real one	01:53
lcuk	:D	01:54
MohammadAG	slightly (or more than that) off topic, but the ps3 was hacked http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/01/heres-your-silver-platter.html	01:54
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LuserN800	the blackberry too	01:55
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jon1012	GeneralAntilles: I hope you're right about new updates coming in the future :)	01:55
lcuk	MohammadAG, my big n900 dream isnt offtopic	01:55
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MohammadAG	lcuk, err wasn't talking about your n900 dream lol	01:56
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wazd	time to buy PS3 as BD player I guess :D	01:57
lcuk	lol wazd	01:58
lcuk	hey, did you get all the testing time you needed on n900? how do you like your themes on it?	01:58
wazd	well, since it's actually one of the best players out there :)	01:58
wazd	lcuk: Ironicaly no :D	01:58
thresh	and it actually has really nice games too	01:58
lcuk	yeah you can play hopskotch with it	01:59
wazd	thresh: well, for 50 bucks?! :D	01:59
thresh	that too	01:59
thresh	wazd: 80 bucks usually when the game is out	01:59
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lcuk	wazd, dont tell me, angry birds took up your entire testing time?	01:59
wazd	lcuk: I actually had a quick overlook on n900, that's all :)	02:00
* thresh is ok buying one game each two months or so		02:00
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* wazd is ok stealing one game each week :D		02:00
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wazd	but I'm a PC gamer :)	02:01
wazd	well, PC "player", not a gamer so much	02:01
thresh	i don't really want to buy a new pc every year	02:01
lcuk	then dont	02:01
wazd	thresh: hehe, these are the stories of the past	02:01
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wazd	thresh: current games are basically have the same specs	02:02
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lcuk	thresh, purchase machine to requirements	02:02
wazd	thresh: thanks to consoles	02:02
thresh	i'm fine with PS3 and switching laptops every three or four years	02:03
lcuk	there are still cases where games take advantage of newest tech	02:03
wazd	there are almost no PC exclusive games anymore	02:03
lcuk	but the engines are normally now graceful enough to degrade	02:03
wazd	the only game that kicked my PC's 1.5yo ass is GTA4	02:03
lardman	graphics cards are the big issue now, and they are relatively cheap	02:03
Jaffa	lcuk: MWKN manual edition has been kicked off. More volunteers to contributor links via Twitter (http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Weekly_News) welcome.	02:04
wazd	lardman: hehe, the funny thing is that I have a bad CPU for GTA4 :)	02:04
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thresh	that still involves buying a decent monitor and finding a place at hoe	02:04
thresh	home	02:04
thresh	which i don't have	02:04
lardman	wazd: not dual core?	02:04
wazd	lardman: Athlon X2 4200	02:04
wazd	lardman: but GTA4 is a real CPU bitch	02:05
lardman	oh right	02:05
wazd	lardman: too much stuff happening on the screen :)	02:05
lardman	turn down the res?	02:05
wazd	lardman: I prefered to strip down visuals a bit	02:06
thresh	GTA4 was ok, i didnt like it much though	02:06
lcuk	Jaffa, have you seen in #mer they have a bot that can push updates	02:06
lardman	mine seems ok, core2duo 2.13GHz, runs Crysis, etc., with decent graphics	02:06
lcuk	to microblog from irc	02:06
wazd	thresh: dude, the radio is epic :)	02:06
* thresh loves his Uncharted 2 though		02:06
derf	The ARM chip can do 720p, but it chews through battery like nobody's business.	02:06
wazd	thresh: with this radio, gta could have a pong gameplay	02:06
lcuk	#mwkn lardman gets more wine.	02:06
lardman	?	02:07
lcuk	sorry lol was a mwkn entry example :D	02:07
lcuk	tho thats never news :D	02:07
wazd	I see consoles as a community entertainer :)	02:08
wazd	like football with friends and stuff	02:08
thresh	wazd: you mean that 'chanson' stuff radio they had in gta?	02:08
wazd	thresh: well, the whole radio thing	02:08
lardman	yeah as in community where you can see the people you're playing against	02:08
wazd	thresh: ads, DJs	02:09
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lcuk	jaffa is it the ~mwkn or a #mwkn?	02:09
lcuk	@mwkn	02:09
lardman	what does that mean?	02:09
thresh	wazd: didnt they had pretty much the same stuff in GTA3 and Vice City anyway	02:09
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wazd	thresh: yeah, but this never gets old :)	02:10
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lcuk	wazd consoles have changed then	02:11
lcuk	it never used to be community entertainer, it was however many people you could fit in your bedroom without your mum shouting	02:11
Jaffa	lcuk: People who are contributors can use either "@mwkn <section>" or "#mwkn <section>"	02:11
pupnik_	extras devel hash sum mismatch!	02:11
wazd	And their... the tablet is going to be based on the iPhone operating system and so it'll be transferable	02:12
lcuk	cool so you are picking up the #hashtag	02:12
wazd	haha	02:12
lcuk	but filtering on editors	02:12
Jaffa	lcuk: If they're a contributor, a bot'll pick it up and put it out under the "mwkn" account. At the end of the week, the tweets form the basis of the issue	02:12
wazd	ipod touch for 1.5k	02:12
Jaffa	lcuk: Correct; but other people can suggest content which a contributor can pass/fail	02:12
pupnik_	wtf is up with extras-devel?	02:12
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lardman	night chaps	02:13
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pupnik_	nite	02:13
wazd	cya	02:13
pupnik_	wtf is up with extras-devel?	02:13
lcuk	ooh that does brush on the firehose queue, nwkn could get "as someone approves it on going magazine format" with that sort of route	02:13
Jaffa	lcuk: a bot here and in #maemo-devel which'd post to the account if a contributor did "@mwtn <section> <keywords>" which then suffixed it with the URL to the log from a few seconds prior	02:13
Jaffa	lcuk: ...would be excellent :)	02:13
lcuk	well speak to carsten and marius	02:14
Jaffa	Indeed	02:14
* Jaffa hopes to have more volunteers on infrastructure as well as content side ;-)		02:14
* Jaffa beds		02:14
lcuk	we have the silicon watching, i know its feasible, gnite	02:14
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jebba	pupnik: http://espejo.freemoe.org/espejo-maemo-extras-devel.install	02:20
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paul42	I'm running "paplay" (simple pulseaudio player) , but I can't hear any sound	02:21
paul42	Do you know why?	02:21
woglinde	hoi jebba	02:22
jebba	paul42: get alsamixer, run `alsamixer -c0` and look for "HP DAC" and turn it up	02:22
jebba	hey woglinde	02:22
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woglinde	hm guess I need alsamixer for espeak too	02:22
jebba	paul42: one of these i think will do it:	02:22
jebba	amixer -D hw:0 -- sset 'HP DAC' playback 100%	02:22
jebba	amixer -D hw:0 -- sset 'HP DAC Playback Volume' playback 100%	02:22
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woglinde	let see	02:22
Jef91	anyone here use fMMS?	02:23
* paul42 trying		02:23
jebba	paul42: wait, i completely take that all back. That's an alsa issue, this is pulse. I don't think that will work, nvm.	02:23
woglinde	hm no wonder	02:24
jebba	basically pulseaudio is used to set levels for each channel, but there isn't a pulseaudio mixer.	02:24
woglinde	pcm is highest	02:24
woglinde	jebba hm	02:24
woglinde	non in patools?	02:24
jebba	woglinde: actually, that is what i run after i turn off pulse to use jack	02:24
frals	Jef91: yeah.. 0.3.0 not working? ;o	02:25
jebba	woglinde: i've seen a pulseaudio mixer, but not in maemo. i may have just overlooked it.	02:25
Jef91	frals : it works but all the pictures I get are super tiny - is there a way to adjust/chance that?	02:25
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jebba	there's no patool in maemo	02:25
frals	Jef91: blame T-Mobile for that and not following standards/guidelines :(	02:26
paul42	jebba: HP DAC & HP DAC 0 are already 100%	02:26
woglinde	thanks jebba for the alsa-tip	02:26
Jef91	frals : so thats a no then I take it?	02:26
woglinde	now espeak is a lotter friendlyer	02:26
frals	Jef91: yeah, ive tried all the stuff that should solve it, and seems it works for some on some pictures, but.. no :(	02:27
jebba	woglinde: you used that amixer command to change levels in espeak? Running pulse?	02:27
woglinde	jebba pcm	02:27
woglinde	it actually was	02:28
woglinde	100%	02:28
Jef91	frals : kk, I was just wondering - I'm just happy to have mms thehehe	02:28
woglinde	so master level didnt do anything	02:28
paul42	jebba: and not mute	02:28
jebba	woglinde: i dont see a patools package anywhere	02:28
pupnik_	pulseaudio-utils exists	02:29
woglinde	-17	02:29
woglinde	damn	02:29
woglinde	I am think I am russia or something	02:29
woglinde	+in	02:29
pupnik_	temp is -17??	02:29
woglinde	yes	02:29
jebba	pavucontrol	02:29
* pupnik_ cries		02:29
jebba	pavucontrol - PulseAudio Volume Control	02:30
jebba	what's up pupnik?	02:30
paul42	I really don't understand, paplay doesn't work but other "graphical app" work	02:30
pupnik_	so expensive to heat house	02:30
* Jef91 heads back to class		02:30
Jef91	Linear Algebra is so dry	02:30
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pupnik_	alsamixer can see all kinds of stuff	02:31
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woglinde	hm I wonder what pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice is for	02:31
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pupnik	ty jebba	02:33
paul42	Actually, I'm trying to understand why I don't have sound with scummvm. If anyone know...	02:33
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paul42	I think it uses alsa, which uses PA	02:33
paul42	aplayer doesn't work either	02:33
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paul42	jebba: and this is an Alsa issue	02:33
paul42	jebba: aplayer foo.wav <- no sound	02:34
paul42	s/aplayer/aplay	02:34
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cehteh	maybe unmute your device?	02:36
cehteh	turn volume up	02:36
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jebba	woglinde: the nokia-voice one probably does their GSM (audio) codec	02:36
jebba	paul42: you using headfones or anything. I can only suggest trying alsamixer -c0 and upping them all....	02:37
jebba	i assume the regular mediaplayer is playing fine, btw.	02:37
paul42	it is	02:37
paul42	But I don't test with headphones	02:37
jebba	No libglademm to build pavucontrol	02:37
javispedro	i doubt it would work either way, the maemo pa is heavily modified	02:38
woglinde	jebba hehe make libglademm package	02:39
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pupnik	wow something broke my xterm -	02:40
timeless_mbp	cute	02:41
timeless_mbp	my bluetooth module came back	02:41
timeless_mbp	and told me its name	02:41
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timeless_mbp	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?s=f90411e2b2db3270a63eb7ccf7753d33&p=463606#post463606	02:42
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shrdlu-	is there any way to set up a pop account using a SSL secure connection without using secure authentification on the N900?	02:53
shrdlu-	it seems to automatically select it if you use SSL	02:53
ml-mobile	it does	02:54
ml-mobile	but it still works	02:54
* ml-mobile uses it with gmail		02:54
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shrdlu-	doesn't work for me on my isp :/	02:54
* timeless_mbp is confused		02:55
timeless_mbp	what the heck does that mean in pure technical terms?	02:55
timeless_mbp	what port do you speak and what protocol and what do you say?	02:55
timeless_mbp	109? 110? 995?	02:55
ml-mobile	pop3 over SSL	02:55
timeless_mbp	so 995?	02:55
shrdlu-	yeah	02:56
timeless_mbp	so standard pop over ssl, no fancy starttls games	02:56
shrdlu-	guess I'll have to	02:56
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shrdlu-	why would they set the server up like that anyway? Doesn't that mean the logon information isn't secure? Seems to make securing the downloads rather pointless if you can just swipe the passwords	02:57
timeless_mbp	?	02:58
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Robot101	if you have SSL, everything is encrypted, including the authentication	02:58
timeless_mbp	SSL means the server says "hi, here's my public key, verify me"	02:58
timeless_mbp	you say "oh hey, your certificate verifies as being signed by someone i trust"	02:58
timeless_mbp	"i'll talk to you, lemme generate a session key with you"	02:58
timeless_mbp	they're like "great, DVWER@#QRIQRORT#ERQ"	02:58
timeless_mbp	you and the server speak ssl, and no one can eavesdrop without defeating SSL	02:59
timeless_mbp	which most people consider to be tolerably difficult for a 3 month window :)	02:59
shrdlu-	I dunno, all I know is that in Thunderbird, if I select 'Use secure authentification' the client comes back with 'server does not support secure authentification'	03:00
shrdlu-	but it lets me use SSL	03:00
shrdlu-	and on the N900, selecting SSL doesn't work	03:00
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timeless_mbp	http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=195976	03:01
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timeless_mbp	http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=1125060&sid=616bc7d8f351a74ab4bc2bb7d0773f6b#p1125060	03:01
digitalstimulus	hello, does anyone know how to tell what codename version I am running on n810? I can get the numeric version, but I can't seem to find a list somewhere or the codename :)	03:01
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ml-mobile	rather, the UI shows secure auth as checked even though it isn't activated	03:01
timeless_mbp	secure auth is really enciphering the password credentials	03:01
shrdlu-	hrm.	03:03
ShadowJK	digitalstimulus, what numeric?	03:03
ml-mobile	shrdlu-: uncheck it, activate SSL	03:03
digitalstimulus	5.2008.43-7	03:03
ml-mobile	it'll work	03:03
ShadowJK	http://wiki.maemo.org/Codenames	03:03
ShadowJK	that's diablo	03:03
shrdlu-	I can't uncheck it	03:03
shrdlu-	that's the point	03:03
ml-mobile	before enabling SSL	03:03
shrdlu-	it isn't checked	03:04
ml-mobile	ok	03:04
timeless_mbp	digitalstimulus: ok, so you have a random number	03:04
ml-mobile	I think it's a bug in the GUI	03:04
timeless_mbp	which no one should be using	03:04
timeless_mbp	why?	03:04
shrdlu-	but it shows up as checked anyway. but ml-mobile says it's a gui thing, i see	03:04
ml-mobile	yes	03:04
digitalstimulus	ShadowJK, thanks, that's what I was looking for :)	03:04
timeless_mbp	oh	03:04
timeless_mbp	sorry, 2008	03:04
ml-mobile	I hit that when setting up my gmail accounts	03:04
digitalstimulus	timeless, 5.2008.43-7 shows as 4.1.3 diablo on the wiki codenames	03:05
timeless_mbp	digitalstimulus: sorry, i missed the '8' in 2008	03:05
timeless_mbp	it's late here	03:05
ShadowJK	timeless_mbp, "no on should be using", because if it was 2009.43-7 it would be ancient, or because nobody should have obtained it? :-)	03:05
shrdlu-	well, SSL isn't working, in this case	03:05
ShadowJK	Those people part of nokia's tester program that received N900's (and I'm not talking about the Maemo summit and dev programs) never quoted version numbers :-(	03:07
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shrdlu-	oh. there we go	03:07
shrdlu-	nice, thanks for that ml	03:07
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: 'yes' :)	03:08
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pupnik	hmm, 221b video game uses a chatbot for characters	03:08
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ShadowJK	Do we need to add another column to that table to add "PR1.0" and "PR1.1" schemes..	03:09
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* timeless_mbp curses svn		03:11
* timeless_mbp contemplates using hg convert instead		03:11
timeless_mbp	(probably wiser)	03:11
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pupnik	i should bring ps3 controllers to fosdem	03:12
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kamui	pupnik	03:13
kamui	I need some help	03:13
kamui	accessibleName was not declared in this scope	03:13
kamui	I've narrowed it down to QtGui	03:14
kamui	but I have no idea why its saying that in the scratchbox	03:14
kamui	the code builds fine on my native system	03:14
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pupnik	hey kamui what are you building?	03:15
kamui	lmms	03:15
kamui	or attempting to anyway	03:15
pupnik	i failed building lmms	03:15
kamui	roh noes!	03:15
kamui	where did you get stuck?	03:16
pupnik	don't remember	03:16
kamui	I wanted to try hyrdogen, but I didn't think the UI would fit well wihtout major rework	03:16
pupnik	http://cplusplus.syntaxerrors.info/index.php?title=%E2%80%98bar%E2%80%99_was_not_declared_in_this_scope	03:17
pupnik	:)	03:17
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pupnik	picodrive would get you a gaggle of groupies	03:17
kamui	I thought that at first pupnik	03:18
kamui	but its declared in QWidget	03:18
kamui	so I purposely included that in the source file	03:18
pupnik	perhaps related to gcc version?	03:18
kamui	and it still fails when linking	03:18
kamui	could be	03:18
kamui	compiling	03:18
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mtnbkr	guess this guy ain't buying an N900: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/01/25/apple.fans/index.html	03:24
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shrdlu-	he will be buying some elasticated jeans and a bulk pack of TV dinners though	03:26
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pupnik	phooood	03:28
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shrdlu-	"He said he spends about 4 to 6 hours per day reading online news about Apple." lol	03:28
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SpeedEvil	...	03:28
mtnbkr	that guy is missing more than one screw...	03:29
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* VDVsx facepalms		03:29
mtnbkr	for instance: "I bought the iPod when it was announced. I didn't know what it was going to do when I bought it," he said, adding that Apple knows before he does what he needs in technology. DUMB just dumb	03:29
shrdlu-	I thought the tablet sounded alright until I saw that it was going to run the iphone OS	03:29
shrdlu-	guess I had assumed it'd run straight OSX	03:30
Wizzup	got the n900 today, and I'm literally blown away. It's linux... on a phone... :-)	03:30
CutMeOwnThroat	it produces wind?	03:30
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SpeedEvil	Wizzup: Similarly still blown away after a couple of months.	03:31
shrdlu-	I'm also very happy	03:31
crashanddie	yooo bitches!	03:31
SpeedEvil	Wizzup: last month I realised that - with my laptop hard disk a bit dodgy - the easiest way for me to back it up was to rsync to the phone.	03:31
Wizzup	:p	03:31
Wizzup	Only thing I didn't find in experimental reposses was git, but I may have to look harder	03:32
* mtnbkr_N900 is happy too - and irc'ing from his n900		03:32
pupnik	man, try to find a SpaceSaver II kbd for under $200...	03:32
digitalstimulus	anyone has n900 and n810?	03:32
pupnik	many people	03:32
ph1l	Wizzup: at the downside... i'm not reachable on the phone anymore since i have to stage my n900 every 5min :-D	03:33
digitalstimulus	I have n810 and am looking forward to getting the n900, wonder how it compares in a daily use type of way, not a youtube "this button is now here" kind of way :)	03:33
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mtnbkr	ph1l: could be an upside - for you though	03:33
ph1l	mtnbkr: actually it is indeed :-)	03:34
pupnik	goddamn t-offline	03:34
ph1l	btw: anyone know a app which filters incomming calls and present them with a mp3-bla bla message?	03:35
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Wizzup	ph1l: I don't think I'll want to do too dangerous things on it just yet - may try to see if I can port gentoo later. but ATM I'm just enjoying the way it just `works' :)	03:35
digitalstimulus	ph1l, google voice?	03:35
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sr71	digitalstimulus: I have both but honestly I've been using the N900 way more than the N810 due to it's size/phone/performance	03:35
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digitalstimulus	sr71, I've had the n810 for about a year and a half, I love it but I'm having a battery issue that appears to be common. Would you say the n900 is a full replacement?	03:36
ph1l	i would like a blacklist of phone-numbers and if they call they get anoyed by "if you want to tallk about tax please press1, ...	03:36
digitalstimulus	sr71, for what the n810 is designed for anyways, not just because n900 is a phone	03:37
ScribbleJ	It is currently possible to build my own kernel for my N900?	03:37
ScribbleJ	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7972	03:37
povbot`	Bug 7972: Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found	03:37
Damion2	fixed in M6 ;)	03:37
ScribbleJ	I'm new... what's M6? I'm just trying to make my own kernel for the first time. :)	03:38
sr71	digitalstimulus: imho it is	03:38
jebba	ScribbleJ: i have some info about building kernels here http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Kernel	03:38
ScribbleJ	digitalstimulus, the N900 does not support USB OTG, except for that I don't think you'll miss anyhting.	03:39
digitalstimulus	sr71, awesome, I look forward to the n900 even more	03:39
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digitalstimulus	OTG?	03:39
shrdlu-	does ovi maps do speed cameras?	03:39
ScribbleJ	digitalstimulus, the N810 can act as USB host, the N900 cannot.	03:39
SpeedEvil	ScribbleJ: that's still somewhat in question - at least host mode - it doesn't support OTG - no.	03:39
sr71	I like the N900 keyboard a bit better but if you have larger hands it may take some getting used to since it's smaller	03:39
Damion2	maemo6/harmahatton	03:39
ScribbleJ	SpeedEvil, there might be some way to do host mode? Hey... don't I know you from #electronics?	03:39
Damion2	I've spelt that wrong	03:39
SpeedEvil	ScribbleJ: All the technical reasons by nokia that I've chased down so far seem incorrect.	03:39
SpeedEvil	ScribbleJ: probably.	03:39
ScribbleJ	It's been a long time since I've been int here. You're not the guy with the awesome garden, are you?	03:40
SpeedEvil	ScribbleJ: The USB PHY chip does not seem to be configurable in such a way to prevent USB host mode working.	03:40
ScribbleJ	Maybe that was Professor or something.	03:40
SpeedEvil	ScribbleJ: debatably awesome.	03:40
ScribbleJ	Hah	03:40
shrdlu-	SpeedEvil does indeed have a magical garden	03:40
digitalstimulus	I've not used the USB host mode	03:40
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SpeedEvil	I've been spending much of this year with my limited energy getting it sane - hence cutting my hacking time.	03:41
ScribbleJ	I'm very interested in getting my N900 to do USB host... if there's a way to get it to work, that would be awesome.	03:41
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ScribbleJ	I just don't know enough about it to even know where to start on that one.	03:41
ScribbleJ	jebba, thanks for the link, I am perusing it.	03:41
SpeedEvil	yes, I know. I need to get it done - it's just I've more important stuff to do - tomorrow I'm fixing the kitchen worktops and trying to stop moisture getting in again. :/	03:41
digitalstimulus	what do you all use host mode for?	03:42
digitalstimulus	mainly	03:42
SpeedEvil	digitalstimulus: it does not currently work.	03:42
ScribbleJ	digitalstimulus, reading/writing USB memory sticks?	03:42
digitalstimulus	I understand the concept, I just don't see application for it for me	03:42
SpeedEvil	digitalstimulus: If it worked - I'd be using it for plugging in an external hard drive occasionally.	03:42
ScribbleJ	Or in my case, USB seems like a fine way to integrate to an external device like a uC. I guess BT is good for that too though.	03:43
shrdlu-	woo. ovi maps does indeed support speed cameras.	03:43
SpeedEvil	digitalstimulus: turn on hard drive, plug in n900 - pull off a movie in a couple of minutes, shut it down.	03:43
digitalstimulus	guess that would work, I guess I'm jus tpatient transferring via wireless	03:43
ScribbleJ	jebba, that looks awesome, I was mainly lookign for a way to do NAT/iptables... you are my hero.	03:43
SpeedEvil	Or ripping DVDs, or connecting a scanner/printer/audio system/...	03:44
jebba	there's a talk thread about NAT too. Search for wifi hotspot	03:44
ScribbleJ	I saw that thread.	03:44
ScribbleJ	It was useless!	03:44
ScribbleJ	I mean, it was a bunch of guys talking about how maybe htis or that would work... but it seemed to me just making my own kernel and trying it would be fine.	03:44
SpeedEvil	Or connecting up a DisplayLink adaptor	03:44
digitalstimulus	NAT would be awesome, similar to Sprint's MiFi	03:44
SpeedEvil	to plug in a monitor	03:44
ScribbleJ	Only... then I found you can't actually build a kernel, which is the saddest disappointment I've had on a machine I bought because it was open.	03:44
javispedro	er.. what?	03:45
ScribbleJ	What to who? Me?	03:45
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ScribbleJ	Read up the page, there's a bug right now that prevents me (or presumably anyone outside Nokia) from building a kernel properly.	03:46
javispedro	what?	03:46
ScribbleJ	Missing fiasco-gen	03:46
javispedro	I've bought a few kernels already, and lots of modules	03:46
javispedro	what you'd need fiasco-gen for?	03:46
ScribbleJ	IT's required to compile the latest kernel in the SDK repos.	03:46
javispedro	"compile"?	03:46
ScribbleJ	Yes, compile.	03:46
javispedro	you mean "package"	03:47
ScribbleJ	What do you mean by "bought?"	03:47
ScribbleJ	Well, I dunno what fiasco-gen does, I just know it's a prereq, apt-get build-dep kernel	03:47
javispedro	so it's not stoping you from building a kernel, isn't it?	03:47
ScribbleJ	Well, yes...	03:47
javispedro	it's stopping you from packaging it.	03:47
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ScribbleJ	?	03:48
ScribbleJ	The first step in building a kernel -- and I'm new here so feel free to tell me how wrong I am -- is presumably to do apt-get build-dep kernel so I have all the tools required to build said kernel.	03:48
ScribbleJ	Yet, this command fails since fiasco-gen is not available anywhere.	03:48
ScribbleJ	Presumably, building the kernel would also fail due to it's absence.	03:49
javispedro	well, so I tell you that fiasco-gen is not needed to build the kernel, but maybe to package it.	03:49
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ScribbleJ	OK, that's good information. Not being a debian wizard, how do I find/install the remaining dependencies?	03:49
luke-jr	oh wow	03:49
Wizzup	does anyone else have the issue that dosbox won't type ":" or "/", when in dosbox console? It prints > and ignores the "blue arrow" key	03:49
javispedro	if you installed the full sdk dev, you probably have them already.	03:49
luke-jr	I want a handheld with QSD8672 <.<	03:49
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ScribbleJ	javispedro, the only thing I know I am missing is the binary parts; I added a line to my apt sources for it, but not sure what packages to get.	03:50
luke-jr	ScribbleJ: you don't need FIASCO crap	03:50
javispedro	ScribbleJ: "Nokia-binaries" and "nokia-apps" as clearly stated in the sdk guide.	03:51
javispedro	though you don't need them to build the kernel iirc.	03:51
luke-jr	ScribbleJ: but you do need blob userland to make it work	03:51
ScribbleJ	javis, that's awesome... can you link me to where it's clearly stated? I know I'm retarded, I don't feel like I'm finding all the docs yet.	03:51
javispedro	Wizzup: search for "rover.sys" in talk.maemo.org	03:51
ScribbleJ	I must be looking in the wrong docs so far, I think.	03:51
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luke-jr	ScribbleJ: ./flasher -k bzImage -l -b	03:52
luke-jr	ScribbleJ: that will boot your bzImage over USB without modifying flash	03:52
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luke-jr	to actually write it to flash, replace -l with -f	03:52
ScribbleJ	That's very good and interesting to know!	03:53
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javispedro	ScribbleJ: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation	03:53
ScribbleJ	Thanks, javis. I don't mean to be a dick, I'm just genuinely a bit lost. :)	03:54
Wizzup	javispedro: Thanks.	03:54
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javispedro	I've never tried building the kernel package (just from patched sources without debhelper stuff), but I guess plain dpkg-buildpackage will fail due to fiasco-gen. Still, when it fails (my guess is late in the process) you should have the image floating around.	03:58
ScribbleJ	That makes sense... I wasn't using buildpackage though.	03:58
ScribbleJ	This is the first thing I'm ever building for N900/maemo except the shortest possible C "Hello World" I threw together to see if I had it all right.	03:59
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javispedro	btw, and, fwiw, flasher supports "--flash-only kernel" if you ever need to revert to the default fw.	04:02
luke-jr	I find I need to --flash-only initfs most often :P	04:05
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javispedro	not on n900 (it's gone)	04:06
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luke-jr	javispedro: so I lose everything when I make a typo in the boot scripts?	04:07
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javispedro	probably, but there's bootmenu	04:07
javispedro	i don't play with that stuff though	04:08
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luke-jr	bootmenu is initfs	04:09
javispedro	... not on n900. :)	04:10
luke-jr	my point stands.	04:10
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luke-jr	if I make a typo in the boot scripts (bootmenu), the only recovery is wiping everything?	04:10
javispedro	it does.	04:10
javispedro	yes.	04:10
luke-jr	ugly :x	04:10
javispedro	well, you might be able to change init=	04:10
luke-jr	I guess it's a little better since it has the huge internal storage tho	04:10
javispedro	again, I don't play with that.	04:11
luke-jr	if I had one, I'd probably turn the MTD into an initfs anyway	04:11
luke-jr	XD	04:11
luke-jr	javispedro: so what are your thoughts on the LG Apollo?	04:11
luke-jr	1.3 GHz QSD and 1 GB RAM	04:11
javispedro	ah, wow.	04:12
javispedro	Screen Resolution: WXGA 1280 x 720 px heh	04:12
cpscotti	Hey.. any user of the "desktop command execution widget" there? Already using version 0.6? I'm looking for some feedback on whether it is a good idea to go on with this version to extras-testing =]	04:12
javispedro	10 hours of video playback? I have to wonder how they'd pull that off.	04:12
luke-jr	javispedro: supposedly Qualcomm isn't using ARM's stuff as-is	04:13
luke-jr	they actually spent $$$ on engineers to optimize it	04:13
SpeedEvil	cpscotti: how does it work - I diddn't see docs	04:13
luke-jr	javispedro: they also have a dual-core 1.5 GHz Snapdragon coming out too, but I don't know anything using it	04:14
cpscotti	SpeedEvil: should be very self explanatory (sory). You add one to your desktop and in the widgets settings you can set up any shell/bash cmd	04:14
cpscotti	and then the output will be shown there	04:14
cpscotti	(it comes with some simple examples and all)	04:14
javispedro	luke-jr: so far I classify it in the "hard-to-believe" category, which means we'll see when it comes out (supposedly september seems)	04:15
cpscotti	http://static.pixelpipe.com/45c7df9b-db4a-4ffc-a97d-322b6914f26d_m.jpg	04:15
luke-jr	javispedro: yeah, knowing that's coming, I can't see myself getting anything else until then XD	04:15
SpeedEvil	cpscotti: I find it most annoying there isn't a nice standard way to - say - long press on applications inthe app manager - and hit a standard help page location.	04:16
luke-jr	unfortunately it ships with Win7 tho	04:16
SpeedEvil	cpscotti: I haven't actually looked for docs - it was one of the apps I've installed without doing research	04:16
cpscotti	SpeedEvil: ohh.. yehp..	04:16
SpeedEvil	Hmm - neat. I need to actually read the docs.	04:16
cpscotti	well.. since the first time that I figured out the "long press" (or press outside anything, and then on the gear), I try it with everything.. lol	04:17
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DocScrutinizer	cpscotti: are you the decel of that clicmd widget?	04:23
cpscotti	nope..	04:23
cpscotti	clicmd?	04:23
DocScrutinizer	wel I dunno the exact name	04:24
DocScrutinizer	the small widget you can display the result of shell commands on homescreen	04:25
cpscotti	yeep	04:26
cpscotti	desktop-cmd-exec	04:26
DocScrutinizer	well probably it's called "desktop command execution widget"	04:26
cpscotti	that's me	04:26
cpscotti	and yes .. that's the XB-DisplayName	04:27
DocScrutinizer	it's nice, but has a rather silly and annoying shortcome: you can't have more than one of them	04:27
cpscotti	=]	04:27
cpscotti	just update	04:27
cpscotti	your wish has become true	04:28
DocScrutinizer	ok :->	04:28
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cpscotti	(ok.. bad english there)	04:30
timeless_mbp	cpscotti: XB-Display-Name: no?	04:31
cpscotti	yeh yeh..	04:31
cpscotti	haha	04:31
kamui	epic fail tonight pupnik	04:31
kamui	tried to build openlierox	04:31
kamui	can't build the libboost dep	04:31
kamui	:(	04:31
* bfree shakes his fist at the left handed "long press" ;-) http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/right_handed_popup_menus		04:31
kamui	segfaults	04:31
cpscotti	bfree: Agree totally with it! it just got another thumb up	04:34
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cpscotti	(well.. post any comments regarding my widget (desktop-cmd-exec) on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=496691 .. I pretend to send it up to testing soon)	04:40
cpscotti	good night to everybody!	04:40
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pupnik	Ari at summit: http://www.flickr.com/photos/32856926@N06/4027159841/sizes/l/in/set-72157622622073500/ Finland: http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=1045 :)	04:46
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pupnik	kamui: libboost? wait a sec	04:52
kamui	I suck pupnik	04:53
kamui	its all in devel-extras	04:53
kamui	and extras-devel	04:53
kamui	and extras-testing	04:53
kamui	didn't think about adding the repos to the scratchbox :)	04:53
pupnik	oh heh	04:53
kamui	hoewver, openliero can't be ported easily	04:53
pupnik	a lot of stuff turns out to be problematic!	04:53
kamui	looks like there is code thats not arm compatible yet	04:53
pupnik	yuop	04:53
kamui	Im going to actually look into it more this weekend	04:53
kamui	but I think again, its probably more than I want to take on right now	04:54
kamui	liero is by far one of my favorite games, so its sad	04:54
* pupnik installs liero		04:54
pupnik	openlierox?	04:55
kamui	yea	04:55
kamui	I always played liero	04:55
kamui	then some years ago openlieroX came out	04:55
kamui	added multiplayer via internet, random # of players, exensible weapon system, etc	04:56
kamui	thooper suite!	04:56
pupnik	slow download	04:57
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pupnik	http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaaksi/337387474/sizes/o/ another nice n900 photo	05:07
pupnik	i think	05:07
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kamui	pupnik	05:15
kamui	if I port something successfully	05:15
kamui	can I just use fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -d on it?	05:16
YeTr2	maemo is designed to only be used on nokia things, yes?	05:16
kamui	to build a quick deb	05:16
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tank-man	YeTr2, check out "mer"	05:16
tank-man	http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer	05:17
kamui	YeTr2, naah, aigo N500 shoudl be out	05:17
kamui	not a nokia device	05:17
kamui	running MAemo 5	05:18
pupnik	-b and -d to ignore deps	05:18
kamui	4" screen, no keyboard	05:18
pupnik	b to build	05:18
kamui	oh suite	05:18
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kamui	and pupnik, say I want to change the default path to /opt	05:18
kamui	can I .configure it first	05:18
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kamui	or is there a flag for dpkg	05:18
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* pupnik crawls into a corner, twitching and glancing at the ceiling		05:18
kamui	dont' be a hater pupnik :) I've never deployed a package for others	05:20
kamui	I ususally only build for myself	05:20
pupnik	i can't help with optification	05:20
pupnik	i do it by hand, with ar	05:20
kamui	I C	05:20
kamui	I just assumed I could change the prefix directory	05:21
kamui	then in my post install script link the bins to /usr/bin	05:21
_andy	anyone know how to get a pipe character in xterm for maemo?	05:21
kamui	_andy, use sym key	05:21
_andy	kamui, doesn't do anything...	05:22
timeless_mbp	_andy: you have to press blue first	05:22
pupnik	_andy: you can add special chars to the toolbar using gconf	05:22
YeTr2	tank-man: kamui: yeah, I was just checking to see if there was a possibility it would run on this other non-nokia web tablet I have. I doubt it will.	05:23
kamui	well, its a very good assumption that it wont "just work"	05:23
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kamui	if you managed to boot it, you'd need to at the very least recompile the kernel to support your hardware	05:24
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_andy	timeless_mbp, still does nothing..	05:24
timeless_mbp	what did you 'do'?	05:24
_andy	i press the blue ('function') key and then i press the Sym key	05:25
_andy	then nothing happens.	05:25
_andy	and when i push random characters i get nothin'.	05:26
SpeedEvil	press blue function - hold, press sym - release sym - release blue	05:26
timeless_mbp	brother	05:26
SpeedEvil	I can never get that to work when I jkust mash the two keys - which is annoying and broken	05:26
_andy	hmm.. SpeedEvil nothin' when I try that	05:27
timeless_mbp	_andy: go to settings>text input	05:27
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timeless_mbp	enable the onscreen keyboard	05:27
timeless_mbp	use that.	05:28
timeless_mbp	there's a pipe in there	05:28
_andy	does that work in xterm?	05:28
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timeless_mbp	yes	05:28
* timeless_mbp wonders why sym isn't working in xterm		05:28
SpeedEvil	It does	05:29
timeless_mbp	not for me atm	05:29
SpeedEvil	wfm	05:29
timeless_mbp	which is odd, because it worked for me a few days ago	05:29
_andy	hmm.. i can't get the onscreen kb to work when I enable that option.will try a reboot	05:29
SpeedEvil	though witht he above caveats on button order	05:29
SpeedEvil	ukkbd	05:29
timeless_mbp	you have to close the keyboard tray	05:30
_andy	AH..	05:30
_andy	ty	05:30
_andy	anyone got gpsd working on the N900?	05:30
kamui	works on mine	05:30
_andy	what device name do you use?	05:30
kamui	what version do you have timeless	05:30
timeless_mbp	kamui: sorry.	05:30
kamui	euro? US?	05:30
timeless_mbp	i'm not running 51-1	05:31
kamui	oh, thats why?	05:31
* timeless_mbp shrugs		05:31
timeless_mbp	i'm 99% certain this build has worked for me	05:31
timeless_mbp	but my system is flaky atm	05:31
timeless_mbp	a few hours ago the phone refused to function :)	05:31
timeless_mbp	and then bluetooth reset	05:31
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_andy	aah i feel retarded.. the onscreen kb still doesn't open in xterm.	05:32
* timeless_mbp ponders		05:33
kamui	make sure its enabled in settings andy	05:33
timeless_mbp	did you tap the screen?	05:33
kamui	by default isn't it off timeless?	05:33
_andy	kamui, it is :). timeless_mbp yes	05:33
_andy	i fail so hard at N900 tonight.	05:34
* timeless_mbp cries		05:38
timeless_mbp	well, on screen keyboard works for me	05:41
wiretapped	my n900 periodically claims to have no cellular data when it actually does	05:41
pupnik	i've seen that since pr1.1 wiretapped	05:41
wiretapped	like right now, i'm typing in a remote shell	05:41
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wiretapped	and it just said it. and yeah, i'm on pr1.1	05:41
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ScribbleJ	I can't ruin my N900 by flashing kernels and things at it, right, I can always just lfash on the default stuff again?	05:52
luke-jr	you can by flashing the bootloader	05:52
luke-jr	why not just USB-boot without modifying the flash, though?	05:52
kamui	or by flashing your erection at it	05:52
kamui	that tends to break electronics	05:53
ScribbleJ	Yes, that probably would ruin it.	05:53
_andy	can I put grub on my N900 and dual boot windows?	05:54
_andy	jk	05:54
ScribbleJ	Oooh, why didn't I think of that?	05:54
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ScribbleJ	You know how computers are all 1s and 0s inside, right? Well, I'm going to make my computer go twice as fast by replacing all the 1s with .5s.	05:55
_andy	i hear floating point operations are much simpler.	05:55
ScribbleJ	I might need some little tweezers though.	05:55
shamus	you know i wonder is it posable to run the origional myst on a n800 or n900	05:55
ScribbleJ	Well, wasn't the original myst a dos game?	05:56
ScribbleJ	It'd probably run under dosbox.	05:56
shamus	thaght it was win 3.1	05:56
ScribbleJ	I can't remember. :/	05:56
Robot101	ScribbleJ: you laugh, but actually, reducing voltage and shrinking the silicon is a requirement for clocking CPUs faster, because it comes down to how long it takes for electrons to flow on or off the silicon pads...	05:56
Robot101	ScribbleJ: so yes, we did turn the 1s into 0.5s to make CPUs faster :)	05:56
ScribbleJ	Robot101, well, yes, but that is intentionally confusing voltage with logic... .... I was just trying to be funny.	05:57
_andy	my internet tablet keeps making a ringing noise.. wtf?	05:57
Robot101	ScribbleJ: :)	05:57
Robot101	ScribbleJ: well the funny thing for me is that it's not so far from the truth, in some ways	05:57
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ScribbleJ	I bet they did it with tweezers and a magnifying glass, too.	05:58
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YeTr2	kamui: so, how would I go about trying to make maemo work?	06:10
pupnik	turn device on	06:12
b-man17	lol	06:12
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YeTr2	ok... lets fastforward, after I configure Haret to boot maemo, what should I be looking for if it does/doesn't work..	06:13
pupnik	maybe you want to look into 'mer', the free open-source version	06:15
pupnik	http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer	06:15
ScribbleJ	luke-jr, I'm not sure why I can't usb boot. I tried that way to boot jebba's presumably working kernel...	06:17
ScribbleJ	And my own.	06:17
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pupnik	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/mg/2.6.6-1/ test MasterGear emu! Free ROMs here: http://www.pdroms.de/files/mastersystem/ http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/roms.html	06:18
YeTr2	well, that sure as hell failed.	06:21
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YeTr2	stops at 'Jumping to Kernel..."	06:23
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YeTr2	so, now I need to figure out how to get Mer to run on an intel xscale pxa255 ?	06:25
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MistaED	funny how there's no megadrive emulator yet	06:28
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jebba	ScribbleJ: my kernel definitely works with PR1. Not sure about PR1.1.	06:33
ScribbleJ	jebba... I can't follow your directions, I just found.	06:35
jebba	ah	06:35
ScribbleJ	I get an error message trying to flash the kernel from the device about how it pre-depends on fiasco-flasher which is not installed ... and I can't seem to find anywhere.	06:36
jebba	geez opensuse is over a gig just for text install....	06:36
ScribbleJ	Any idea what I'm missing?	06:36
jebba	you need to install kernel-flasher	06:36
ScribbleJ	I also noticed you have .debs for vlc, which I'm dying to see running on my N900... any caveats to installing them?	06:37
jebba	well, definitely needs poking at and the interface isnt great, but it works.	06:37
jebba	this version isn't optimized for n900 at all. But there is a git tree with another one, so i may build that.	06:37
jebba	ah, and it's NOT optified due to bug in maemo-optify-deb and I didn't optify manually.	06:38
odin_	ScribbleJ, there is bug for fiasco-flasher https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7972	06:38
povbot`	Bug 7972: Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found	06:38
ScribbleJ	I actually have kernel-flasher installed, still no fiasco-flasher.	06:39
ScribbleJ	odin, I'm aware of that bug -- wasn't aware they were the same thing. Thanks.	06:39
jebba	you're runnign which PR, and which kernel you trying to install?	06:39
jebba	ScribbleJ: you can't apt-get install fiasco-flasher?	06:40
ScribbleJ	I'm totally new - so I don't know how to answer the first question. For the second, I have been trying kernel_2.6.28-20094102.6+0m14_armel.deb	06:40
ScribbleJ	Nope, I cannot;	06:40
ml-mobile	hmm	06:40
jebba	ScribbleJ: have you run update since oyou got your fone? I have fiasco-flasher installed on mine from somewhere, but it's not free software.	06:41
ScribbleJ	E: Couldn't find package fiasco-flasher ... I have run update.	06:41
ml-mobile	jebba: would it be possible to take the stock kernel from kernel.org and build one for the N900?	06:41
ml-mobile	(using the appropriate .config and whatnot)	06:41
jebba	ml-mobile: no	06:41
jebba	missing drivers	06:41
ml-mobile	closed modules?	06:42
jebba	so far i've only heard of people building working kernels using the 2.6.28 source from nokia.	06:42
jebba	no closed modules.	06:42
ml-mobile	hm	06:42
odin_	ml-mobile, nope, more like http://www.linux-arm.org/LinuxKernel/WebHome	06:43
ScribbleJ	Can I just add your repo to my apt sources, jebba, that works fine in maemo?	06:44
jebba	ya, but even more than just linux-omap is needed.	06:44
ScribbleJ	I really wish I knew where the fiasco-flasher is, but... it is MIA!	06:44
jebba	ScribbleJ: ya, that's what i do. You may want to turn it off before you do any apt-get upgrades though.	06:44
microlith	granted the last time I was working with the kernel on ARM, it was stock compiles for PXA270 on Intel's Mainstone II platform so...	06:44
jebba	ScribbleJ: you may have to enable the nokia proprietary repos, though i think those are on by default in the ofne	06:44
odin_	yes nokia have an open patch to the kernel, yes there maybe some blobs but you can load your own kernel with the same features/kernel API as the official build	06:44
ScribbleJ	I think I have enabled those, jebba, but I'm still pretty uncertain of everything. :)	06:45
jebba	the blobs would be for wifi etc	06:45
jebba	ScribbleJ: dunno, sorry. You could try 0xFFFF	06:45
jebba	i may bail on using the nokia flasher and just convert everything over to 0xFFFF here next round	06:46
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ScribbleJ	Well, if I can't get my own kernel working -- for the record, my kernel works as well for me right now as yours -- then I'll just try whatever you do next, I suppose.	06:47
jebba	which kernel of mine did you use?	06:48
ScribbleJ	Why would you run asterisk on maemo?	06:48
ScribbleJ	kernel_2.6.28-20094102.6+0m14_armel.deb	06:49
shamus	why not?	06:51
luke-jr	shamus: qemu + WINE	06:52
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ScribbleJ	Sheesh, it is just not my night.	06:57
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ScribbleJ	How did I get into this situation? Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/f/ffmpeg/libavdevice52_0.5+svn20090706-5_armel.deb Size mismatch	06:57
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jebba	ScribbleJ: try http://espejo.freemoe.org/espejo-maemo-extras-devel.install	07:01
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ScribbleJ	jebba, I get a size mismatch on the same packages from there.	07:08
ScribbleJ	Maybe they are in the middle of an update or something?	07:08
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jebba	ah yes, could be doing an update, but then i would have had to have snagged it at the same time.	07:11
jebba	i guess one option is i could run my own update on the repo and serve that up instead of their data.	07:12
ceda	hmm, my mmc card is mounted read-only	07:12
ceda	photo-app fails to sve images	07:12
ceda	and media framework fails to index	07:13
GeneralAntilles	ceda, FAT's corrupt.	07:13
ceda	GeneralAntilles: ouch, ok. Is there a bug with workaround or similar?	07:14
GeneralAntilles	ceda, fsck it?	07:14
jebba	ceda try a couple reboots too, i think it fscks it when it boots up. Or is this a microsd card?	07:15
ceda	microsd	07:15
ceda	it reboots at least twice a day	07:15
jebba	ah, ya, then you can unmount it and fsck it.	07:15
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ceda	yes, of course homer-doh	07:18
pupnik	MistaED: there is one since 2007	07:18
pupnik	doesn't run many titles	07:18
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MistaED	pupnik: oh didn't know	07:19
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MistaED	i was just looking, DrMD could be used with the drnoksnes maemo framework	07:19
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ceda	GeneralAntilles: anyway to have trackerd rescan? such as a SIG?	07:30
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Vratha	hi	07:37
Vratha	must say that the n900 maemo installation has gotten a little better. still waiting for full contact sync and a better calendar before i move back off the nexus one	07:38
Vratha	but do have to say it's improved nicely	07:38
* luke-jr peers		07:40
GeneralAntilles	ceda, yes, don't remember the recipe.	07:40
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shamus	is it me or is the ovi soefwhere on windows xp crap	07:50
shamus	last time i tryed it my memory usage was frickign insin	07:51
pupnik	plonk	07:52
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shamus	pc suite was far more stable and less hungry	07:53
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kuriiri	so how awful is the ovi then?? :D	07:53
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kuriiri	just makes me wonder	07:54
shamus	maby thy have had an update	07:54
shamus	but i uninstalled with in 15 min of trying it	07:54
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pwnguin	oh interesting	07:55
pwnguin	if you turn on the camera on, tv out displays the captured image instead of the desktop	07:55
Milo-	obviously?	07:56
shamus	then again i dont have a n900 and the old phone i do have works great with the old pc suite why bother with ovi	07:56
pwnguin	not so obvious if you want to take a picture of yourself in good focus ;)	07:56
pwnguin	or demo the camera UI to a lot of people via projector	07:57
pwnguin	but it is pretty fun to point at itself	07:58
shamus	ah the classic infinity tunnle	07:58
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Stskeeps	morn	08:13
luke-jr	morning	08:14
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* RST38h moos evilly		08:16
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* Stskeeps glances at the -20 C on the hotel weather applet		08:17
luke-jr	Stskeeps: btw, on the topic of N8x0 support, you are aware of my gitorious push of that kernel work I ended up stopping on?	08:18
ds3	luke-jr: what were you working on?	08:18
luke-jr	ds3: porting Linux to N8x0	08:18
timeless_mbp	person w/ n900 handy: ping	08:19
luke-jr	Stskeeps: if not, it's at http://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/linux-omap/n8x0	08:19
ds3	huh?	08:19
ds3	don't Linux already run on N8x0?	08:19
timeless_mbp	ds3: ignore luke-jr	08:19
timeless_mbp	he's a zealot	08:19
luke-jr	ds3: only a very much diverged branch/fork of Linux 2.6.21, which is now unsupported	08:19
ds3	oh	08:20
ds3	you are one of the people trying to bring the L-O kernel up to snuff?	08:20
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ds3	(for the N8x0 devices)	08:20
luke-jr	ds3: no. I was, until I realized it would be cheaper to buy a N900. the link above is the last effort I made on it.	08:20
Stskeeps	luke-jr: yes i was aware of it - the remaining issues was that you can't implement a full subsystem?	08:21
Stskeeps	(re)	08:21
timeless_mbp	ds3: do you have an n900 handy?	08:21
luke-jr	in case someone else wanted to pick it up	08:21
ds3	timeless_mbp: nope	08:21
luke-jr	Stskeeps: there was quite a bit remaining; the biggest one was rewriting the C-Bus to fit in mainline	08:21
timeless_mbp	luke-jr: hey, does that mean you have one? :)	08:21
luke-jr	timeless_mbp: nope, holding out for LG Apollo now	08:21
ds3	I had some L-O kernel running on an N800 before	08:22
* timeless_mbp grumbles		08:22
* timeless_mbp pokes Trizt		08:22
luke-jr	Stskeeps: http://elinux.org/N800#Status is the status chart :)	08:22
Stskeeps	luke-jr: :nod:	08:22
Trizt	morning timeless_mbp	08:22
timeless_mbp	morning	08:22
timeless_mbp	got time for a quick item?	08:22
rosseaux	timeless_mbp: i've a n900 smartphone here.	08:23
timeless_mbp	open media player	08:23
timeless_mbp	tap music	08:23
Trizt	yeah, don't have to leave until 20 mins later	08:23
timeless_mbp	tap an album	08:23
Stskeeps	write 'r i c k r o l l'	08:23
Stskeeps	and it will put on rick astley ;)	08:23
timeless_mbp	long time on the first track in the list	08:23
timeless_mbp	is there a 'delete' item?	08:23
timeless_mbp	and does it delete the file from your n900?	08:23
luke-jr	Stskeeps: board-specific code is needed to get webcam, keyboard, ambient light sensor working at least	08:23
timeless_mbp	(warning: it probably does, so actually testing this is dataloss...)	08:23
Stskeeps	luke-jr: if we were not to do it mainline but a bunch of patches stalking mainline, would that reduce complexity?	08:24
ds3	luke-jr: hmmm wonder what broke.. I had more then that running on an N800 before	08:24
Trizt	timeless_mbp; yes, there is	08:24
luke-jr	Stskeeps: initial complexity, possibly; long-term, it would increase it	08:24
timeless_mbp	Trizt: wanna thwack the reporter of https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8330 ?	08:25
povbot`	Bug 8330: Delete track from Media Player	08:25
rosseaux	timeless_Mbp; yes, there is a delete item at my n900 with PR1.1	08:25
luke-jr	ds3: 2.6.30-rc had most of N8x0 supported in Linux-OMAP; that was all stripped out when 2.6.30 was released	08:25
timeless_mbp	thanks	08:25
luke-jr	ds3: but that never saw a working WiFi driver	08:25
* timeless_mbp offers someone a large trout for the occasion		08:25
ds3	Ohhh	08:25
luke-jr	now Wifi is like the only thing working with mainline	08:25
ds3	I was using 2.6.24 or something around that era	08:25
timeless_mbp	luke-jr: why was it stripped? because the hardware vendor was EOL?	08:26
timeless_mbp	s/vendor was/was vendor/	08:26
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: luke-jr: why was it stripped? because the hardware was vendor EOL?	08:26
* Stskeeps heads to breakfast and kamppi		08:26
ds3	probally no one to clean it up for the K-O commit	08:26
Trizt	timeless_mbp; you want me to delete a track?	08:27
timeless_mbp	Trizt: well, make a backup	08:27
luke-jr	timeless_mbp: the code was not mainlined; 2.6.30 was more or less a reset	08:27
timeless_mbp	but do confirm before you thwack him/her	08:27
Trizt	timeless_mbp; delete works for me	08:27
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: what will you do in kamppi?	08:27
* timeless_mbp is awake and could drop by		08:27
Trizt	timeless_mbp; nah, no point, it's time to change tracks	08:28
luke-jr	timeless_mbp: plus what ds3 said :)	08:28
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slonopotamus	morning	08:28
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slonopotamus	ds3, K-O commit - ?	08:28
luke-jr	IIRC, some of the code no longer works with current kernel structures	08:28
luke-jr	slonopotamus: Kernel.org commit, I think	08:28
ds3	Kernel.org commit	08:28
ds3	aka Linus's tree	08:28
slonopotamus	okay	08:28
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Trizt	grr... forgot to update my password... time to find right email when back home after work	08:30
luke-jr	Stskeeps: if it were merely keeping C-Bus independent, it would reduce complexity quite a bit in the short-run, but the LCD platform stuff uses Tahvo, so it wouldn't be mainlinable until C-Bus is :/	08:30
Trizt	timeless_mbp; you close the bug 8330 ?	08:31
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8330 Delete track from Media Player	08:31
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timeless_mbp	Trizt: i'd rather not be the only user of bugs.maemo.org	08:32
timeless_mbp	so it'd be better if you or rosseaux commented	08:32
timeless_mbp	you only need to stick a comment in, the resolution will happen later	08:32
ds3	luke-jr: Who would have to sign off on tthe C-bus commit? It looks like it'd be out of tony's hands	08:33
Trizt	okey, then I'll look for my new password	08:33
luke-jr	ds3: no idea? the code needs to be written before that matters	08:34
Trizt	damn, I can't login, guess I have to register again	08:35
ScribbleJ	Sheesh	08:36
ScribbleJ	Just the package list from extras-devel take 15MB on /	08:36
ScribbleJ	That's harsh.	08:36
crashanddie	We just need to make / 4 gig and be done with it	08:37
crashanddie	I'm tired of the optification discussions	08:37
slonopotamus	crashanddie, :)	08:37
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, $$$$	08:37
pwnguin	i look forward to seeing your unionfs patches	08:37
ScribbleJ	Yeah, I don't care how fast the 256mb storage is... I'd rather have slower disks and more space.	08:38
GeneralAntilles	ScribbleJ, no you wouldn't.	08:38
crashanddie	fuck the whole "but we're going to kill the 32gig flash, it can't handle it", at the current rate, we're using it all the time anyway	08:38
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, the problem is it's freaking slow and high latency.	08:38
ds3	it sucks that code got regressed	08:38
* timeless_mbp repokes Stskeeps about kamppi		08:38
pupnik	GeneralAntilles: ++	08:38
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: ok, so how many libs are on /home/opt now?	08:39
pupnik	endless, useless whine	08:39
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: how many shitloads of apps are using /home/opt continuously?	08:39
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, not the core stuff.	08:39
luke-jr	ds3: in the case of CBus, it was never implemented properly in the first place AFAIK	08:39
Trizt	timeless_mbp; so, commented	08:40
ds3	luke-jr: didn't it come directly from Nokia?	08:40
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: well, just chuck everything in /boot, all the rest in /usr	08:40
timeless_mbp	Trizt: thanks	08:40
luke-jr	ds3: I imagine so.	08:40
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crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: it's a stupid design, I can't believe they went to market with only 256M for /	08:40
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GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, I agree, but, well . . . here we are.	08:41
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slonopotamus	GeneralAntilles, did you measure sd vs onboard flash speed?	08:42
crashanddie	zhy the fuck did ,y keyboqrd just szitch to french§	08:42
crashanddie	better (test)! aaaQQ	08:42
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slonopotamus	GeneralAntilles, and did you try running maemo from sd and seeing that it is unusably slow?	08:43
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slonopotamus	GeneralAntilles, or maybe you have a link to someone who did that?	08:44
ScribbleJ	slonopotamus, that measurement was done. The 256 flash is in fact much faster.	08:44
ScribbleJ	I just saw the comparison in the wiki about two minutes ago.	08:44
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crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: other option: make 4GB (or whatever size) for / in SD, then only move/symlink the core stuff that really slows down the whole device to the 256 flash	08:44
slonopotamus	ScribbleJ, ssd disks are much faster than hdds. it doesn't mean that hdds are unusable.	08:44
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ScribbleJ	I'm just saying. You want the numbers, they are out there.	08:45
ScribbleJ	IIRC it's something like 100MB/sec on the one side and 20MB/sec on the other.	08:45
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: this way, all applications that have been optified keep working, applications that have no clue what's happening keep working, albeit a tiny bit slower, but we keep relatively acceptable speed for the core stuff	08:45
slonopotamus	...	08:45
crashanddie	how many binaries are 20MB?	08:46
slonopotamus	ScribbleJ, that doesn't matter when you have 256mb total.	08:46
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: KOffice? :)	08:46
crashanddie	that just means you can load the whole rootfs in 2.5s... there's no way the CPU can cope with that anyway	08:46
slonopotamus	so you can read full rootfs in 2 seconds. wonderful. why?	08:46
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timeless_mbp	crashanddie: otoh, it means that it'd take 200s to load the /home fs :)	08:47
timeless_mbp	if the thing you need is swapped out and lives in /home, the penalty is much worse	08:47
ScribbleJ	Hey don't ask me; I'm on the side of it's silly to have a 256mb / partition. I mean, I filled it up with nothing non-optified installed... it's easy to do when just putting in the apt.sources line for extras-devel costs you 15mb of space, and god forbid you have a mirror for it listed too, then you just lost 30mb for -- nothing.	08:47
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: again, 32G in 200s? Seems acceptable to me.	08:48
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: no, 2g in 200s	08:48
ScribbleJ	Not even anything installed at all and 30mb gone.	08:48
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: 4G actually	08:48
timeless_mbp	2gb / 20mb/s	08:48
timeless_mbp	oh whatever	08:48
crashanddie	lol	08:48
timeless_mbp	100s	08:48
timeless_mbp	it's still a long time	08:49
ScribbleJ	If it were up to me, I'd just take the 256mb as fast swap...	08:49
crashanddie	I daresay there are only very few scenarios where loading 2GB of data in 1m40 isn't fast enough -- movies? Boot time?	08:49
timeless_mbp	ScribbleJ: so	08:49
timeless_mbp	are you volunteering to write the code to make it happen?	08:49
crashanddie	there is no code required	08:50
timeless_mbp	because the rootfs isn't on a thing which swap supports out of the box	08:50
crashanddie	just partitioning	08:50
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: no.	08:50
crashanddie	lolwut?	08:50
ScribbleJ	timeless, is it possible to make it happen? If I can I certainly will.	08:50
luke-jr	ScribbleJ: are you crazy? <.<	08:50
ScribbleJ	luke-jr, yes, probably.	08:50
timeless_mbp	ScribbleJ: there were estimates of a certain number of man months (plus testing etc) to get it working	08:50
luke-jr	ScribbleJ: swap on NAND = bad NAND	08:50
ScribbleJ	luke-jr, it would be helpful if you told me how I'm nuts though.	08:50
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ScribbleJ	luke-jr, good point.	08:51
timeless_mbp	luke-jr: actually, people think it might be almost ok	08:51
timeless_mbp	although there's definitely a risk	08:51
luke-jr	tbh, I wouldn't be comfortable swapping to anything internal, ever <.<	08:51
luke-jr	I'll risk a disposable MicroSD for that	08:51
ScribbleJ	Yeah, kind of difficult to replace if you /do/ wear it out.	08:51
timeless_mbp	'kind of'?	08:51
timeless_mbp	how about impossible :)	08:52
luke-jr	XD	08:52
ScribbleJ	But look, that's beside the point, I guess.	08:52
timeless_mbp	anyway, people are investigating it	08:52
timeless_mbp	but it is non-trivial	08:52
* luke-jr swaps to external MicroSD with the assumption it will destroy it someday		08:52
ScribbleJ	I'm up to page 10 of this thread on meamo.org about the root parition and I'm still not seeing anything that people make sound workable.	08:52
ScribbleJ	This whole optifying thing is a joke, you have to know it.	08:52
timeless_mbp	ScribbleJ: a joke isn't the right word	08:53
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timeless_mbp	embarassment is probably better	08:53
crashanddie	embarassment is usually what people feel after a good sharp joke though	08:53
timeless_mbp	and after many bad ones...	08:53
timeless_mbp	and things which just aren't funny	08:54
timeless_mbp	this falls squarely in the 'not funny' category	08:54
slonopotamus	hehe :) no, it is funny	08:55
ScribbleJ	I wish I knew where to look for the actual decision-making through-process that went into deciding on /opt as opposed to any of the laternative solutions.	08:55
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ScribbleJ	If I could just understand /why/ someone though the optifying was the best solution I might feel better.	08:55
slonopotamus	so crappy disk layout and ppl are accepting it, sitting around and repackaging, and optifying everything.	08:56
timeless_mbp	ScribbleJ: the /opt solution was chosen by the maemo community	08:56
ScribbleJ	How?	08:56
ScribbleJ	That's what I want to know.	08:56
timeless_mbp	it's a matter of public record	08:56
crashanddie	ScribbleJ: http://wiki.maemo.org/Opt_Problem	08:56
GeneralAntilles	ScribbleJ, the mailing lists are where you want to look.	08:56
GeneralAntilles	Talk is useless.	08:56
GeneralAntilles	http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-October/021289.html	08:56
ScribbleJ	crashanddie, that doesn't explain how a solution was selected. A lot of the others sound better to me.	08:57
ScribbleJ	Thanks, GeneralAntilles - reading now.	08:57
crashanddie	ScribbleJ: GA gave the answer, mailing lists	08:57
timeless_mbp	ScribbleJ: roughly, it was not something nokia picked on its own	08:58
slonopotamus	no. you _already_ had 256mb rootfs when that discussion raised.	08:58
timeless_mbp	what we didn't do was think about "oh hey, where will our customers stick a 2gb application"	08:58
slonopotamus	you already had fixed partition sizes.	08:58
timeless_mbp	partition sizes? bah	08:58
timeless_mbp	the nand size is hardly a partition size	08:58
timeless_mbp	it's a piece of hardware	08:58
timeless_mbp	it's not like we can dynamically resize it!	08:58
crashanddie	indeed, I'm guessing you guys just took whatever fitted the budget	08:59
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, sd partition sizes. 2gb is one more crap.	08:59
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: actually, if you looked, i think you'd find it was for its time one of the larger nands	08:59
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: a lot of people installed Diablo on their internal SD, I don't understand why people are so uptight about putting it on the 32g one now	09:00
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: a lot of people also put it on SD cards and whatnot	09:00
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timeless_mbp	crashanddie: people can do whatever they like	09:00
tekojo	crashanddie expectations are the thing	09:00
timeless_mbp	nokia is uptight about performance	09:00
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timeless_mbp	any minor performance degradation results in customers whining	09:00
crashanddie	I have a uSD that answers faster than the rootfs though	09:00
crashanddie	granted, it's only 144k in size, but still	09:01
timeless_mbp	you have a 144k uSD ?!	09:01
crashanddie	aye	09:01
ScribbleJ	My SD card is only 2MB/sec - now that /is/ a bit slow to use.	09:01
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* timeless_mbp grumbles		09:02
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: remember what my company does?	09:02
timeless_mbp	importing kde is slow	09:02
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: oh yeah, duh :)	09:02
timeless_mbp	it's too early in the morning for me to use my memory :)	09:02
timeless_mbp	it won't wake up for another 4 hours, it's very high latency :)	09:02
slonopotamus	okay	09:02
slonopotamus	who ran diablo from sd here?	09:02
slonopotamus	was it unusably slow?	09:03
timeless_mbp	objection!	09:03
timeless_mbp	your honor, calls for speculation	09:03
timeless_mbp	leading the witness	09:03
* slonopotamus did. it was indistinguishable from diablo from internal flash.		09:03
crashanddie	slonopotamus: confirmed	09:04
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, what's so different about fremantle that it needs much faster disk? i say what. nothing.	09:04
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: you think maemo5 is a lighter or as light of a platform as maemo4?	09:05
ScribbleJ	So.... if I understand this right, the /opt decision was the product of a meeting of 10 people, total?	09:05
timeless_mbp	i'm pretty sure it has more daemons than maemo4	09:05
timeless_mbp	and does more stupid work	09:05
timeless_mbp	ScribbleJ: you'd rather us collect the first 10,000 customers into a single room	09:05
timeless_mbp	and let them pick something?	09:05
crashanddie	ScribbleJ: 10 people who care > whole community	09:05
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, 37MBps is a speed of normal desktop hdd just several years ago.	09:05
thresh	several as in 15?	09:06
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: and we're talking about 20, half that :)	09:06
ScribbleJ	I'm just saying, I was told earlier it was a community decision.	09:06
timeless_mbp	ScribbleJ: it was	09:06
ScribbleJ	10 people doesn't sound like much of a community.	09:06
timeless_mbp	as opposed to a nokia decision	09:06
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, ...	09:06
crashanddie	ScribbleJ: it was annouced on multiple media	09:06
crashanddie	ScribbleJ: if people don't show up, we can't force them to	09:06
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, you don't write at that speed when running apps.	09:06
ScribbleJ	Heck	09:07
ScribbleJ	Let me put it another way	09:07
slonopotamus	w/e	09:07
slonopotamus	it's just crap :)	09:07
ScribbleJ	I'd have expected 10 people on this issue from Nokia /alone/.	09:07
ScribbleJ	Nevermind the community.	09:07
timeless_mbp	ScribbleJ: well, as noted people were notified about it	09:07
timeless_mbp	those who came, came	09:07
timeless_mbp	those who didn't, are the silent group you're faulting somehow	09:08
ScribbleJ	So at Nokia, meetings are like, hey, come if you feel like it, or go play basketball if you don't?	09:08
crashanddie	ScribbleJ: it's a big issue in a lot of communities, but ours maybe moreso: people shout and yell when they hear a decision was made about a specific subject ONLY WHEN IT BOTHERS THEM. Whenever an issue is raised, but doesn't affect them, they couldn't be bothered	09:08
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ScribbleJ	crashanddie, timeless -- yes, I understand what you both are saying, but I'm saying forget the community... ten people isn't even a proper contingent from Nokia.	09:09
timeless_mbp	ScribbleJ: at nokia, internally decisions are often made without any useful notice to anyone	09:09
crashanddie	ScribbleJ: we don't know how many people decided this at Nokia	09:09
timeless_mbp	and people not present at the meeting are told "we made the decision at the meeting, read the minutes"	09:09
timeless_mbp	or	09:10
crashanddie	welcome to corporations ;)	09:10
timeless_mbp	people do come to a meeting, there's a discussion	09:10
slonopotamus	crashanddie, ScribbleJ, that's all irrelevant. rootfs _already_ was 256mb and sd was _already_ partitioned as 2gb/768mb/30gb when that discussion took place.	09:10
timeless_mbp	and then afterwards we're told "management has decided to do something else"	09:10
timeless_mbp	"we will now do that"	09:10
timeless_mbp	what the maemo community did is very different from either nokia strategy	09:10
crashanddie	slonopotamus: we're actually talking about the fact that the nand is 256M -- who decided to only provide a 256M sized one	09:10
timeless_mbp	i hope you can see the difference and accept that it's much better than the alternatives	09:10
ScribbleJ	I've had that happen to me, timeless... I remember when I was younger I had our whole office running on linux... one day, the BoD comes in and says, starting tomorrow we're a windows shop.	09:10
ScribbleJ	Heh	09:11
ScribbleJ	crashanddie, no, that's not my perspective. ANY sized NAND would be too small, what sized was picked is necessarily somewhat arbitrary.	09:11
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crashanddie	well, drop me a line whenever you've invented unlimited memory	09:12
timeless_mbp	heh	09:12
slonopotamus	ScribbleJ, so. just hack maemo to run from sd and let's bench it :)	09:12
crashanddie	bonus points if it has unlimited speed as well	09:12
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: infinite is better than unlimited :)	09:12
ScribbleJ	slonopotamus, I only got my N900 yesterday, first exposure to maemo... give me a little time. :)	09:12
crashanddie	yeah, that was the word I was looking for timeless_mbp	09:12
ScribbleJ	At this point, I'm not entirerly clear on the boot sequence and what can be changed.	09:12
timeless_mbp	ScribbleJ: it's linux, roughly anything can be changed	09:13
crashanddie	ScribbleJ: then don't think you have answers or new questions. Most of the things you are saying have been said time and time again.	09:13
slonopotamus	ScribbleJ, there's already bootmenu for n900.	09:13
timeless_mbp	and any change you make will have tradeoffs	09:13
slonopotamus	ScribbleJ, and mer happily runs with it.	09:13
ScribbleJ	crashanddie, I'm sorry if I offended you; I don't think I've given any new suggestions, and my questions are just out of a hope to understand why the decision was made.	09:13
ScribbleJ	slonopotamus, I don't know what anything you just said means. :)	09:14
timeless_mbp	ScribbleJ: standard response "please use google, read the wiki, skim the mailinglist"	09:14
timeless_mbp	before asking questions. i.e. read first. ask questions later.	09:14
ScribbleJ	timeless, thanks, but I did read first, I was looking in the wrong places as GeneralAntilles pointed out earlier.	09:14
ScribbleJ	When I did look in the right place, I was just stunned to hear this decision was the product of a meeting of 10 people, that's all.	09:15
ScribbleJ	IT was just a shocker.	09:15
timeless_mbp	10 people is huge	09:15
timeless_mbp	read the average minutes for a maemo.org sprint	09:15
timeless_mbp	i think they have trouble getting 6	09:15
ScribbleJ	That makes me a sad panda.	09:15
timeless_mbp	and that's including people paid to attend :)	09:15
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: try have a meaningful meeting with over 4 people, and have every single one of them provide useful contributions	09:15
ScribbleJ	I assumed all six were!	09:16
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crashanddie	6 is usually the magic number, after that, people start playing magic bingo or desktop defense	09:16
* timeless_mbp isn't sure there are 6 people paid to be maemo.orrg		09:16
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ScribbleJ	So I'm sure I'd figure this ut eventually, but who is the maemo wiz? Is there someone on the Nokia team who is the daddy of the project?	09:16
slonopotamus	ScribbleJ, techie?	09:17
ScribbleJ	Yeah, tech wise.	09:17
slonopotamus	ScribbleJ, afaik, nobody :) at least not public	09:17
ScribbleJ	That makes me very sad.	09:18
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ScribbleJ	When I imagine a day that there is an elegant solution to the / parition size issue in place, it makes me feel a little icky inside to contemplate all the packages that will still be installing things to /opt and odd places by default.	09:20
pupnik	http://www.shop.thesouthbutt.net/ the south butt is being sued by 'the north face'. shop	09:21
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ScribbleJ	Well, I'm sure it won't take me too long to get it all figured out -- except that little issue where I can't properly build or install a kernel... heh.	09:22
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ScribbleJ	Okay, not to regress.	09:24
ScribbleJ	But	09:24
ScribbleJ	What kind of sense does it make that default themes take up 14mb of my precious /?	09:25
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ScribbleJ	Is that the kind of thing that's intentionally nonoptified?	09:25
slonopotamus	:)	09:25
pupnik	of course it is intentional. the question is, is it a wise choice?	09:26
slonopotamus	ScribbleJ, du -sh /usr/share/locales :)	09:26
ScribbleJ	Oh, I did.	09:26
ScribbleJ	I wasn't sure what to do about that one though.	09:26
slonopotamus	rm -rf unused :)	09:27
ScribbleJ	Is that kosher?	09:27
slonopotamus	... no	09:27
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GeneralAntilles	ScribbleJ, that's not the only discussion. :)	09:48
GeneralAntilles	ScribbleJ, and there are lots of extremely knowledgeable people both in the community and in Nokia.	09:50
GeneralAntilles	ScribbleJ, unfortunately the /opt issue is a product of people realizing it was one way too late in the game.	09:51
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GeneralAntilles	ScribbleJ, but, seriously, read more, denounce and judge less.	09:51
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, maemo.org has 6 people.	09:51
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, not counting Nokian's whose responsibilities tend to revolve around maemo.org	09:51
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jukey	hi, there seems to be a problem regarding http://wiki.maemo.org	10:13
jukey	are you able to load the page?	10:13
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tekojo	jukey maintenance reboot	10:13
jukey	ah :)	10:13
tekojo	need to install new kernel and nfs modules	10:13
tekojo	and then hope it is a bit more stable	10:14
Myrtti	MOAR COFFEE	10:14
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jukey	thanks, I'll try again late	10:15
jukey	r	10:15
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Myrtti	tekojo: btw I haet u. Was just going through bugz to check wiki bugs.	10:29
Myrtti	(with all my love, of course.)	10:29
Myrtti	♥	10:29
pronto	ツ	10:29
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aquatix	good moaning	10:31
pronto	morning	10:32
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Stskeeps	fb-progress	10:47
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tybollt	"? /opt should be a short-term solution.	10:59
tybollt	"	10:59
tybollt	hmmmmmm...	11:00
slonopotamus	tybollt: sure. for maemo5 lifetime :)	11:00
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tybollt	maemo5 lifetime == short term solution? :)	11:02
slonopotamus	tybollt: correction: maemo5 nokia support time :)	11:02
tybollt	right :P	11:03
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hrw\|gone	hi	11:05
tbf	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=497032#post497032	11:06
tbf	someone coming across a vodafone shop to check those magic features?	11:06
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slonopotamus	how vodafone can _not_support it? don't you just take your simcard and put in n900?	11:07
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tbf	slonopotamus: well, out of the box there is no java on the N900	11:09
tbf	slonopotamus: nor MMS	11:09
tbf	slonopotamus: so if they really have those features, there must be some vf specific software on the device	11:10
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mrmg	I'd be fairly sure it doesn't have those features	11:19
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acidjazz	4.0 MB/s - 333.7 MB of 1.6 GB, 5 mins left	11:23
acidjazz	<3 this internet	11:23
pronto	o.o	11:23
pronto	k	11:23
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acidjazz	hows this new image? ppl usin it alot?	11:23
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timeless_mbp	??	11:32
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acidjazz	hey timeless_mbp	11:40
timeless_mbp	hi	11:40
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TriztFromWork	acidjazz; new image?	11:57
acidjazz	TriztFromWork: the vmware image on maemo.org	11:57
acidjazz	so fromt his pre-installed image where do i look next on steps to get the emu running?	11:57
TriztFromWork	oh with the SDK, right?	11:57
acidjazz	yea	11:58
SpeedEvil	hmm	11:58
TriztFromWork	I guess I will make a try when I get back home tonight	11:59
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mece	acidjazz, wow sounds sweet. I can run that bad boy from win, right? My old winxp work machine get a little sluggish when running linux mint running scratchbox	12:03
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acidjazz	mece; yup	12:05
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acidjazz	hmm	12:10
acidjazz	so i started up the emu and there are like zero apps .. not even a browser or anything	12:10
ShadowJK	it's not an emulator	12:11
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ShadowJK	there is no emulator	12:11
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w00t	morning maemo :)	12:12
alterego	ShadowJK: what's qemu about then :P	12:12
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ShadowJK	cpu transparency	12:12
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alterego	Erm .. That's not just what it's used for is it now ..	12:13
alterego	It's used for _emulating_ an ARM processor in scratchbox.	12:13
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timeless_mbp	http://www.youtube.com/v/vOhf3OvRXKg&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1 is amazing	12:14
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acidjazz	dope timeless_mbp	12:20
timeless_mbp	?	12:20
timeless_mbp	ah, slang	12:20
acidjazz	anywyas any answer to my ? of why no apps or anything my fresh pre-made vm sdk?	12:21
timeless_mbp	?	12:21
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timeless_mbp	do you have app manager?	12:21
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acidjazz	all i have is settings and more	12:22
acidjazz	i do	12:22
acidjazz	no apps available	12:22
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tybollt	acidjazz: ls -al /etc/apt/sources.list/hildon*	12:24
tybollt	acidjazz: does that file exist?	12:25
timeless_mbp	what's in more?	12:25
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acidjazz	sec	12:25
timeless_mbp	because app manager should be in more	12:25
acidjazz	installing vmware tools..	12:25
timeless_mbp	you typically have to install things w/ it	12:25
acidjazz	it is in more timeless_mbp just says no apps to install	12:25
timeless_mbp	the sdk doesn't come with lots of preinstalled junk	12:25
timeless_mbp	tap the title area	12:25
timeless_mbp	tap catalogs	12:25
timeless_mbp	(or catalogues)	12:25
tybollt	acid:_: you need to populate the sources list	12:26
tybollt	duuh :)	12:26
timeless_mbp	... the sdk doesn't come with lots of preinstalled junk	12:26
timeless_mbp	... because most people don't need it	12:26
timeless_mbp	if you have settings and app manager, then you have enough to build most things	12:26
tybollt	I don't think it is unreasonable to assume someone installing SDK knows how to handle apt	12:26
timeless_mbp	some things would only come from accepting nokia's nokia-closed binary terms	12:27
acidjazz	wow this really _is_ that bare	12:27
timeless_mbp	tybollt: we provide ham, so we don't assume that :)	12:27
timeless_mbp	acidjazz: the sdk is NOT an emulator	12:27
timeless_mbp	it's a software DEVELOPMENT kit	12:27
* TriztFromWork hates apt and no one has taken the time to make a recent ebuild		12:27
tybollt	timeless_mbp: :P	12:27
acidjazz	yea i know all that and it makes sense just that the sdk stuff before this acme w/ it all instal	12:27
acidjazz	installed*	12:27
acidjazz	timeless_mbp: sdk + emulator	12:28
SpeedEvil	No.	12:28
acidjazz	its a software development kit tha tincludes an emulator	12:28
SpeedEvil	It's really not an emulator of the final phone.	12:28
acidjazz	why cuz its x86	12:28
acidjazz	but it is an emulator	12:28
acidjazz	basic concept	12:28
SpeedEvil	It emulates the CPU only.	12:28
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timeless_mbp	acidjazz: it lets you run the apps you write	12:28
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acidjazz	the phone that appears in your computer is not a phone it is an _emulation_ of the phone	12:28
timeless_mbp	it doesn't emulate the phone	12:28
acidjazz	not _the_ phone but _a_ phone :)	12:28
timeless_mbp	it doesn't emulate the camera	12:28
timeless_mbp	or the gps	12:28
timeless_mbp	or the ir port	12:28
SpeedEvil	or the phone	12:28
TriztFromWork	does the SDK work on an arm machine?	12:29
acidjazz	still an emulator..	12:29
timeless_mbp	or ..	12:29
timeless_mbp	acidjazz: WYSIWYG	12:29
timeless_mbp	it lets you run hildon	12:29
acidjazz	k this conversations over :)	12:29
acidjazz	were on the same page	12:29
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SpeedEvil	TriztFromWork: The emulator runs under qemu - so you can test your apps, and compile natively.	12:29
acidjazz	SpeedEvil just called it an emulator	12:30
SpeedEvil	TriztFromWork: in one mode - and in a similar x86 environment for 'normal' debugging	12:30
acidjazz	NYAH	12:30
SpeedEvil	It is an emulator od some functions - not of the whole phone.	12:30
* RST38h moos thoughtfully		12:30
RST38h	So what is the current discussion about? "N900 is not a phone" again?	12:30
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Wolfie	RST38h: the SDK is not a N900, more like	12:31
TriztFromWork	SpeedEvil; but the emulator itself is x86? I think I could only run my "apps2 only if I compiled x86	12:31
SpeedEvil	TriztFromWork: you will normally compile and run your apps as x86 - and do most debugging there.	12:31
SpeedEvil	TriztFromWork: as it's faster - and most bugs are CPU independant.	12:31
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* TriztFromWork nods		12:31
TriztFromWork	it was just that I thought of getting an arm based laptop	12:32
SpeedEvil	TriztFromWork: then you compile as ARM - and run it under the emulator to check for wierd oopses.	12:32
tybollt	RST38h: Got a mail from nookia this morning "install ovi on your PC" ... I downloaded it but the bastard would not install on my N900 :-\|	12:32
alterego	Damnit, why doesn't the N900 auto setup usb0 when it's plugged in >:(	12:32
tybollt	;-)	12:32
SpeedEvil	alterego: it's not always what you want.	12:32
SpeedEvil	It should be configurable - I don't know if hte standard UI lets you pick a default though	12:33
TriztFromWork	sometimes I have got that the N900 thinks it's connected to a computer when I use the nokia charger	12:33
SpeedEvil	bad connection	12:33
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Stskeeps	nokia charger will provide your mass storage over the electric network ;p	12:33
SpeedEvil	check the connector is not fully in	12:33
ahmedammar	anyone here have any experience with gst-dsp	12:33
alterego	No, it doesn't automatically bring it up it seems.	12:34
acidjazz	lol dont install ovi	12:34
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alterego	/etc/network/interfaces has it.	12:34
TriztFromWork	I'm not talking about the usb cable, but the one you plugin to the wall	12:34
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: I argued way back in the day for the OM phones that a charger with a hub on top would be cool.	12:34
tybollt	acidjazz: that was a joke though	12:34
lardman	andre__: did you knoe that calendar bugs are sent to nobody@maemo.org?	12:34
tybollt	lardman: it's not a bug it's a feature!	12:35
andre__	lardman, but hasn't that been for years, with 15 other products too?	12:35
acidjazz	should i write apps in python or ruby	12:35
ShadowJK	the usb charging spec seems to have provisions for creating docking stations	12:35
lardman	andre__: yeah, but I would like some calendar bugs fixed	12:35
slono_n900	lardman, lol :) really?	12:35
andre__	lardman, bug 630? ;-)	12:35
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=630 Increased Bugzilla transparency - get the developers involved!	12:35
timeless_mbp	tybollt: complaint to nokia care :)	12:35
lardman	andre__: no, later than that	12:36
timeless_mbp	alterego: if you choose pc suite mode it doesn't setup usb0?	12:36
lardman	andre__: and fwiw there are lots of calendar bugs/enhancements	12:36
andre__	so.....?	12:37
* timeless_mbp chuckles		12:37
lardman	all headed to /dev/null	12:37
timeless_mbp	lardman: bugzilla internally didn't handle enhancements	12:37
timeless_mbp	until recently	12:37
timeless_mbp	and i doubt that really includes fremantle anyway	12:37
lardman	yeah I know, but it doesn't fill me with hope that no-one's actually seen these bugs anyway	12:38
timeless_mbp	well, at least you're a realist	12:38
timeless_mbp	better than it fill you with hope for a year and you be crushed by that hope	12:38
timeless_mbp	obviously it's doing its job :)	12:38
* Stskeeps ponders a "clone my n900" tool		12:39
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lardman	I know my hope wuold be crushed if I expected any enhancements to be made, but at least if someone looked at them I could let the calendar team know how rubbish their ui is	12:39
lardman	;)	12:39
tybollt	nokia put up a bugzilla just so users would have something to do instead of calling helpdesk	12:39
tybollt	;)	12:39
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acidjazz	hmm my setup does have app catalogs	12:40
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acidjazz	i ownder if maybe the phone just doesnt have internet	12:40
lardman	tybollt: lol	12:40
acidjazz	the emu..	12:40
timeless_mbp	lardman: i sure hope they know	12:40
timeless_mbp	if they don't, we really have problems :(	12:40
* TriztFromWork hates iis		12:40
* timeless_mbp ponders		12:40
Corsac	in soviet russia, iis hates you	12:40
timeless_mbp	char *	12:40
timeless_mbp	asctime_r (struct tm const * restrict tm, char * restrict buf)	12:40
timeless_mbp	{	12:40
timeless_mbp	return copy_string_result (buf, asctime (tm));	12:40
timeless_mbp	}	12:40
timeless_mbp	they call that reentrant safe?	12:40
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acidjazz	how can i test if my emu has internet .. lol no ping	12:42
timeless_mbp	ssh	12:42
timeless_mbp	or just read about /etc/nsswitch.conf and /scratchbox/etc/resolve.conf or something like that	12:42
acidjazz	damn internte works	12:42
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acidjazz	maybe these repos setup in the sdk are invalid?	12:42
timeless_mbp	ssh probably cheats	12:43
timeless_mbp	did you check the two files?	12:43
timeless_mbp	they're typically wrong	12:43
timeless_mbp	google will explain	12:44
acidjazz	i fixed the scrtachbox resolv.conf	12:44
acidjazz	ssh works	12:44
acidjazz	it has internet	12:44
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acidjazz	gona verify the catalog repos	12:44
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acidjazz	ai_ib_unable_edit	12:45
acidjazz	cant edit catalogs :/	12:45
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tybollt	timeless_mbp: on a more serious note though, HAM is not _just_ a pure apt wrapper - is it?	12:45
lardman	does anyone know what the calendar backend is?	12:45
timeless_mbp	tybollt: with a different apt resolver algorithm	12:46
lardman	i.e. is there an api for it?	12:46
timeless_mbp	it basically is	12:46
Stskeeps	lardman: calendar-backend	12:46
Stskeeps	(oss)	12:46
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: how dare they have a reasonable name!	12:46
timeless_mbp	that's totally unaccpetable!	12:46
timeless_mbp	s/pe/ep/	12:46
acidjazz	so all i did was mount the new vmware .. go into terminal and start up the SDK UI	12:46
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: that's totally unacceptable!	12:46
lardman	Stskeeps: thanks	12:46
spectre-	is joikuspot going to be open source or am i going to have to pay for it	12:48
Stskeeps	spectre-: changes are pay	12:48
Stskeeps	chances	12:48
Stskeeps	you can probably make it command line yourself	12:48
lardman	hmm wrong attitude, you don't pay, you go and write a better version	12:48
spectre-	er are other joikuspot ports open already?	12:49
spectre-	or is that a pay app on other platforms?	12:49
Myrtti	latter	12:49
spectre-	damnit	12:49
spectre-	we need an open alternative	12:49
spectre-	i'm sure bridging would do it	12:49
SpeedEvil	What is it?	12:49
Myrtti	here are the specs, why don't you code	12:49
spectre-	if br-utils were available for maemo	12:49
range	There already is bluetooth DUN ...	12:50
Stskeeps	they are, afaik	12:50
Stskeeps	:P	12:50
spectre-	can i run native debian packages on here?	12:50
SpeedEvil	oh - it's a mifi thing	12:50
spectre-	from, say, etch?	12:50
ptman	btw, is there bluetooth pan? that would be so much better than dun	12:50
range	There's the bluez stack on the phone, so ...	12:51
SpeedEvil	http://intr.overt.org/blog/?p=94	12:51
SpeedEvil	claims so	12:51
SpeedEvil	pan	12:51
acidjazz	ai_ib_unable_edit still	12:51
acidjazz	cant modify catalogs in the app manager	12:51
acidjazz	maemo needs to make their sdk alot more out of the box if they want more developers writing apps :/	12:52
alterego	acidjazz: use the VM.	12:52
alterego	That's abotu as "out-of-the-box" as you can.	12:52
alterego	And if you call yourself a developer and you can't follow the installation procedure, which is damn easy really. Then you're not really a particularly good developer are you :P	12:53
acidjazz	alterego: that what im trying to do :/	12:53
acidjazz	i tried to follow it as detailed as possible	12:53
alterego	What's your problem then>?	12:53
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acidjazz	i started up the emu and no apps installed nothin .. just an app manager w/ a catalog i cant edit	12:54
acidjazz	i get ai_ib_unable_edit notification	12:54
spectre-	!ping	12:54
timeless_mbp	acidjazz: add a repository	12:54
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acidjazz	juts said i cant	12:55
acidjazz	wont let me modify the catalogs	12:55
timeless_mbp	msgid "ai_ib_unable_edit"	12:55
timeless_mbp	msgstr "Can't edit this catalog"	12:55
timeless_mbp	and i said ADD onw	12:55
timeless_mbp	s/w/e/	12:55
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: and i said ADD one	12:55
timeless_mbp	don't try to edit the one that's there, add a new one	12:55
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alterego	How come my /dev/video0 is identical to my /dev/video1 when viewed on a gst pipeline?	12:56
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timeless_mbp	heh	12:56
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alterego	Different device node.	12:57
alterego	IS this a known issue?	12:58
timeless_mbp	first time i've seen it, ask google	12:58
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acidjazz	"Enter web address first"	12:58
alterego	Oh wait, I typo'd the device parameter ;)	12:58
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timeless_mbp	http://uadmin.blogspot.com/2009/03/beginning-of-end-of-opensource.html	12:59
timeless_mbp	> Blue suits and stuffy bushiness men don't get along with long beards and pony tails of the Open Source community, even Sun's dress code doesn't match well with IBM, Sun's dress code by the way is simple. "You must dress, use your best judgement."	12:59
* timeless_mbp chuckles		12:59
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Stskeeps	"must dress", excellent	12:59
timeless_mbp	yeah	12:59
acidjazz	hmm let me add hte maemo extras	13:00
timeless_mbp	too bad i never heard that one until today	13:00
alterego	wow, the video quality is god aweful on the front camera :)	13:00
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: please note the last comment of the blog	13:00
alterego	Looks like there's loads of RF interference or something.	13:00
acidjazz	i dont even think ur supposed to konw that exists yet alterego	13:00
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timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: aww	13:01
timeless_mbp	well, i'll give him this: they're shiny	13:01
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timeless_mbp	definitely overdoing it	13:01
acidjazz	here we go theres somtehing in the log	13:01
lardman	hmm, just watched video of Palm Pre, looks crap	13:01
lardman	No, I tell a lie	13:02
acidjazz	get btadapter: the name org.bluez was not provided by any .service files	13:02
lardman	Motarola Milestone	13:02
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acidjazz	/usr/share/hildon-application-manager/defaults: No suc file or directory	13:02
timeless_mbp	poor high school girls	13:02
lardman	ah, that will be why it's running Android then	13:02
timeless_mbp	the prom dresses are ~50% more than bridesmaids dresses	13:02
acidjazz	then a bunch of error retriving file info: No such file or directory	13:03
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acidjazz	is there any1 in here thats successful setup the sdk ui via the new vmware image?	13:04
timeless_mbp	url?	13:05
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acidjazz	me?	13:05
timeless_mbp	yes	13:05
timeless_mbp	your description is useless w/o a url to the 'new vmware image'	13:06
acidjazz	http://maemo.org/news/announcements/maemo_fremantle_and_diablo_sdk_virtual_image_final_version_released/	13:06
acidjazz	it was this announcement couple dyas ago	13:06
timeless_mbp	well i missed it :)	13:06
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acidjazz	im just gonna re-install the sdk i think	13:07
spectre-	yeah i'm looking forward to video skype calls	13:08
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spectre-	with the front camera	13:08
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acidjazz	This image is out-of-the-box ready Maemo SDK Virtual Image. Image includes the latest version of Ubuntu Intrepid Desktop Edition together with full Maemo Fremantle and Diablo development environments preinstalled and configured.	13:09
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acidjazz	they even like setup bookmarks in firefox for api docs	13:11
odin_	is Ubuntu debian based? (never been a user of Ubuntu)	13:11
timeless_mbp	yes	13:11
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acidjazz	timeless_mbp: dont get me wrong i had 0 issues settup in the sdk via the docs	13:12
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acidjazz	setting up*	13:12
acidjazz	just was lookin forward to this cuz that previous setup took forever	13:12
* timeless_mbp kicks svn		13:12
* ShadowJK doubts skype videocalls will arrive		13:13
acidjazz	ithink they will	13:14
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zaheerm	spectre-, it will require someone to port and optimise vp7 (that is what skype video uses)	13:19
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acidjazz	lol holy shit	13:20
acidjazz	i just realized that app called conky	13:20
acidjazz	is from that doll conky from trailer park boy s:)	13:20
acidjazz	http://www.pocketbikepics.com/data/502/medium/conky8.jpg	13:20
acidjazz	hilarious	13:20
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acidjazz	timeless_mbp: are yo gonna mess w/ that vm?	13:21
timeless_mbp	nope	13:21
timeless_mbp	i already have two vms	13:21
timeless_mbp	i'll update mer when i'm told	13:21
timeless_mbp	i might try to fix my osol vm	13:21
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acidjazz	zip up and give me one :)	13:22
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inz	Hmm, my N900 decided that it didn't want to join the WPA networks of the uni.	13:23
inz	Luckily applying force (read: reboot) helped	13:24
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acidjazz	rad the eula in the maemo 5 ui installer doesnt work	13:27
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GAN900	inz, there's a bug floating around.	13:30
mece	acidjazz, got an url for that vm image?	13:30
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acidjazz	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php	13:34
mece	acidjazz, thankee-sai	13:34
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acidjazz	url isnt responding	13:35
acidjazz	for me	13:35
acidjazz	guess its being flooded or down?	13:35
mece	is GNU general the most open license?	13:36
acidjazz	yea maemo.org is failing everywhere	13:38
range	GNU is not a license at all.	13:38
zash	range: you missed the word "general"	13:38
acidjazz	gnu is an os	13:38
bilboed-pi	general is a rank in the army	13:39
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zash	:D	13:39
range	zash: I thought that sentence was missing an "in".	13:39
mece	thanks for the help guys.	13:39
mece	I meant GPL :)	13:39
zash	range: i thougt it missed "public license"	13:39
acidjazz	mece; did u get that image	13:39
mece	acidjazz, nope. Borked	13:40
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ptl	hello	13:40
range	mece: And that is something which is a) debatable and which b) others have debated over for a long time. So there's no general(!) answer to that.	13:40
acidjazz	fucking this sdk ui shit	13:40
ptl	how do I install an scratchbox 2 target on esbox?	13:40
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acidjazz	im just gonna put sshd on my phone code on the damn phone	13:40
range	Google knows more in this case.	13:40
zash	mece: open for what? :P	13:40
zash	and then there's "free"	13:40
mece	zash wel li wanted to start a project and it asked for license	13:40
mece	I got bored and chose GPL something something.	13:41
ptl	I try to add a scrathbox 2 target (my scratchbox 2 is on /scratchbox) and it says "No build machine configured or applicable SDKs installed"	13:41
ptl	how do I correct it?	13:41
tybollt	mece: no	13:41
acidjazz	faelmo.org	13:41
zash	acidjazz: lol	13:42
mece	tybollt, ok.. so I should have gone with "None" ?	13:42
tybollt	mece: if you want truely open - use BSDL/ISC style license.	13:42
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zash	mece: I like the "I don't give a shit-license"	13:42
mece	zash, that's the one I wanted.	13:42
range	As said, that is debatable. And I think this is probably the wrong channel to discuss that.	13:42
zash	:D	13:42
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mece	zash, I didn't realize that "None" was an option, which it was...	13:42
thresh	DWTFPL is teh best	13:42
tybollt	mece: If you don't license your code it's problematic at best. If you really don't care at all then put it in the public domain	13:43
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ptl	no one knows? or is my question dumb? I have tried to google it but no dice.	13:43
thresh	WTF PL for the win	13:43
Myrtti	Finnish legistlation doesn't recognice public domain, btw	13:43
mece	range, tybollt, zash, what does putting it in the public domain mean?	13:43
ptl	Please, I am keen to program for maemo.	13:43
zash	GPL → free code, BSD → free devels	13:43
mece	well I went with gpl either way.	13:43
Myrtti	mece: you revoke all your claims to it. Finnish legistlation assumes you can't revoke your own copyrights.	13:44
tybollt	mece: sorry to hear you locked your code in. :-(	13:44
mece	I wanted people to be able to use my code to whateverthefuck they want and sell it for a million bucks if they feel like it.	13:44
mece	tybollt, it's not written in stone	13:44
tybollt	mece: according to your statement - you want BSDL	13:45
tybollt	not gpl :)	13:45
mece	tybollt, i just registered a project in garage.	13:45
ptl	GPL allows anyone to sell the code or compiled code for a million bucks	13:45
ptl	it just disallows closing the source	13:45
tybollt	yeah	13:45
ptl	Do you really want people to close the modifications to your code?	13:45
tybollt	gpl ! "whatever the fuck you want"	13:45
range	BSD neither.	13:45
range	You need to at least keep the copyrights intact.	13:46
tybollt	provided you keep the copyright notice it is :)	13:46
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mece	ptl, I really don't care. But I'm happy with GPL atm. Mostly because it was the first on the list, hence least amount of work to choose it.	13:46
zash	mece: :D	13:46
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ptl	I am not criticizing you	13:46
ptl	just raising a point	13:46
zash	"least amount of work" ftw	13:47
mece	ptl, I guess you have a point though.	13:47
tybollt	mece: sure... if you're content w/ locking the BSD community out - go for it =)	13:47
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ptl	I don't even know what your code is all about	13:47
mece	tybollt, I have no idea what the BSD community is, so yeah, I'm fine with that.	13:47
tybollt	:-D	13:47
adeus	http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/	13:47
ptl	there are projects for which I think BSDL is best, others for which I think GPL is best	13:47
Robot101	bsd license is nothing much to do with the bsd community	13:47
ptl	even the FSF founder Richard Stallman does not think the GPL is the best license for all cases	13:47
mece	tybollt, I can change the license later I suppose. I haven't actually submitted any code so... :)	13:48
ptl	hence the LGPL... and he also told the ogg people the best license for their code would be a BSD-like license, which they adopted	13:48
ptl	anywaaaay	13:49
mece	licenses annoy me.	13:49
mece	:D	13:49
ptl	you guys seem experienced coders	13:49
mece	ptl, yees?	13:49
mece	LOL, I mean no.	13:49
ptl	why not help me here and tell me what the heck should I do to use scratchbox 2 under esbox?	13:49
Myrtti	best discussions ever: license fight GPL vs. BSD/MIT @ company christmas party	13:49
ptl	I try to add a scratchbox 2 target and it says "no, no, no" to me	13:49
mece	Myrtti, I bet :D	13:49
ptl	says "No build machine configured or applicable SDKs installed""	13:50
ptl	I'm stuck on this one	13:50
ptl	I am sure 10 more hours of googling about it would get me the solution	13:50
ptl	but I don't have 10 hours to spare with that... please?	13:50
acidjazz	i need some good python examples	13:51
ptl	esbox has them, acidjazz	13:51
mece	acidjazz, I've been knee deep in python the last few days. what do you need?	13:51
ptl	lol	13:51
mece	acidjazz, I downloaded source for touchsearch and witter to get some ideas.	13:52
ptl	at least point me to proper documentation	13:53
mece	acidjazz, I can send you the stuff I'm working on if you want.	13:54
mece	acidjazz, it's crude stuff though, so wear goggles.	13:54
acidjazz	mece: just wanna get into it w/ hildon	13:54
acidjazz	oh touchserach is in python eh?	13:54
acidjazz	i juts need good examples to get going	13:54
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acidjazz	mece: can u point me to the source of touchsearch?	13:55
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mece	ok hold on. touchsearch is a widget though. not the same as an application.	13:55
acidjazz	whatd you use as a good source to an application example?	13:56
mece	acidjazz, this is where I started: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/HildonDesktop	13:56
acidjazz	im at http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/UITutorial/Getting_started#Hello_World_in_Hildon	13:56
acidjazz	mece; are you coding in an sdk or the phone?	13:56
mece	acidjazz, both, depending on if I'm at computer or in sofa/car/train/can	13:56
mece	acidjazz, here's touchsearch source: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/source/t/touchsearch/	13:57
acidjazz	tnx	13:57
mece	acidjazz, this is the stuff I'm working on: http://twitpic.com/zu3bf	13:58
ptl	:(	13:58
acidjazz	gonna have to wait ofr maem.org to be back up	13:58
acidjazz	dope .. the comic widget?	13:58
mece	ptl, All I have is http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Maemo_5_SDK_installation_for_beginners	13:59
mece	acidjazz, that's what I'm doing atm.	13:59
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acidjazz	whats the transmit switch thing mece	13:59
mece	acidjazz, it turns on transmitter and boosts it if you want it to.	14:00
mece	it's in extras I believe.	14:00
acidjazz	what transmitter?	14:00
zash	fm radio?	14:01
acidjazz	ah	14:01
acidjazz	im gonna nap and hopefully wake up to a working faelmo.org	14:01
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tybollt	hmm	14:03
tybollt	nap	14:03
tybollt	I'll go ask my boss if I can nap for a while	14:03
fragment	why ask? just do it	14:06
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t_s_o	hmm, are the repos having a bad day?	14:12
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mece	t_s_o, yes, and freenode too apparently...	14:13
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jebba	again? Hmm. http://espejo.freemoe.org <--- mirrors	14:13
zash	Made of fail and aids!	14:13
t_s_o	mece: there was a warning sendt out about the freenode "issue" ;)	14:13
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mece	I see.	14:13
t_s_o	jebba: thanks, but i use maemo 4...	14:14
jebba	ah sry	14:14
mece	is there a howto on packaging python stuff for maemo?	14:15
tybollt	t_s_o: "freenode issue"?	14:15
t_s_o	tybollt: they appear to be doing some server maintenance, and so need to restructure the network	14:16
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mece	whoa project approved. That was fast. Didn't take quite the 72 hours that were expected.	14:18
mece	who manages the garage anyway? Anyone here?	14:18
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tekojo_	the 72 hours is a worst case	14:20
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mece	guessed as much, still, it was a very fast response. Much appreciated.	14:21
tekojo_	it's a question of when the people with approval rights happen to sit by a computer	14:22
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ceda	hmm, tracker doesn't index my files, or actually, it counts down from five minutes to zero, and the result is: nothing. No files, no video, no images, no sound. Take a screenshot. Still nothing (though I can find the file from X terminal and the file manageR)	14:29
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jebba	ceda: is it plugged in via USB?	14:30
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tekojo	repositories are back from hibernation	14:32
bilboed-pi	is there any chance libpurple will be fixed to have icq working ?	14:32
bilboed-pi	as opposed to downgrading to a previous version	14:32
ceda	jebba: uhm, right now yes. But it fails after bootup as well.	14:32
ceda	(with USB disconnected)	14:33
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frals	programming java after sitting a month in python leads to alot of errors ;(	14:34
jebba	well, leave it with USB disconnected awhile and perhaps it will index. If it's connected to your PC via USB it may not index fotos if it is mounted.	14:34
ceda	jebba: I ran tracker-stats (as root) and it segfaulted (and the crash report popped up)	14:36
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mece	having git on the phone makes me all tingly in my nether regions...	14:40
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alterego	Successfully streaming h264 video across thet network from the N900 to my laptop :)	14:48
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mece	hey where's that file that you modify to add paths and such on the N900. Like .profile on regular linux boxes	14:50
Shrik3	alterego: from the camera or where?	14:50
spectre-	alter	14:51
spectre-	what app are you using for that	14:51
alterego	Shrik3: camera the front one or the back one.	14:51
alterego	gst-launch	14:51
alterego	On both ends	14:51
Shrik3	any idea if that will work with a N810?	14:51
alterego	Possibly, I don't have mine on me to test though	14:52
spectre-	gst-launch eh	14:53
spectre-	can i apt-get that?	14:53
alterego	Yup, that's how I got it.	14:53
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spectre-	from what repo	14:55
ptl	Does someone here uses esbox with scratchbox 2 ? I can't add the scratchbox 2 target!	14:55
alterego	extras testing probably, not entirely sure.	14:55
jebba	alterego: can you paste the command you ran somewhere like http://pastebin.ca if they are long?	14:56
* ptl justs subscribed to esbox mailing lists to see if someone can help him		14:56
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alterego	http://pastie.org/796776	14:57
Shadikka	I think that qualifies as "long", yes.	14:58
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alterego	:) I plan on wrapping it in a python script with libsoup support for sdp advertisment.	14:59
Shrik3	that's some serious command line-fu right there	14:59
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bilboed-pi	alterego, you know about gst-rtsp-server, right ? :)	15:00
GeneralAntilles	I really, really, really, want this guy to fry his N900. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39753&page=4	15:00
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bilboed-pi	GeneralAntilles, and his pants while at it :)	15:01
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Shrik3	seriously, overclocking his N900?	15:03
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jebba	alterego: http://gitorious.org/freemoe/freemoe/blobs/master/bin/freemoe-gst-video :)	15:05
spectre-	whats that?	15:06
spectre-	the gst thing he mentioned earlier?	15:06
jebba	GeneralAntilles: i've run mine at 600MHz for periods too. It's completely permitted by the kernel. I didnt notice anything adverse. I set the cpu governor to user, and echo'd 600000 > /sys/somewhere/cpu0/....	15:07
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GeneralAntilles	jebba, long term you're talking reducing CPU longevity to months.	15:07
jebba	it's not really "overclocking" though, as the CPU is designed to run at that speed.	15:08
GeneralAntilles	jebba, it's not designed to be locked at that speed for extended periods, though.	15:08
jebba	ah. Perhaps.	15:08
jebba	Where's docs on that?	15:08
GeneralAntilles	jebba, Igor Stoppa has slides up somewhere from the Summit.	15:08
jebba	ah ok	15:08
jebba	thx	15:08
GeneralAntilles	It's also been corroborated by TI engineers working on the Beagle Board.	15:09
mgedmin	there was a picture somewhere on the web	15:09
MistaED	wouldnt it be better to concentrate on adding shader support to offload some video decoding to the pvr sgx gpu? or are they doing that already?	15:09
jebba	mine doesnt smell as burnt as it used to ;	15:09
GeneralAntilles	MistaED, the DSP handles video decoding.	15:10
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* GeneralAntilles suspects benny1967 still has him on ignore.		15:17
MistaED	yuv to rgb conversion could be done with a shader still, wonder if that is already been done :o	15:18
alterego	jebba: that's identical to mine :)	15:19
alterego	And I mean _identical_ :D	15:19
* GeneralAntilles wonders whose palms he needs to grease to get input here. http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-January/003833.html		15:22
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Damion2	can I force mine to remain under clocked ?	15:27
Damion2	like 250 or even lower?	15:27
GeneralAntilles	Damion2, why?	15:27
Damion2	I'm assuming it may help with battery drain, and if I see something move sluggishly I know it;s something which I can avoid using as I know under normal (changing freq) conditions, would be eating more	15:28
GeneralAntilles	It wont	15:28
GeneralAntilles	Are you familiar with the concept of Race to Idle?	15:28
Damion2	explain	15:28
GeneralAntilles	Say you have a given task.	15:29
GeneralAntilles	That takes a certain amount of time to complete at 600MHz.	15:29
GeneralAntilles	and say that task takes more than twice as much time to complete at 250MHz.	15:29
slonopotamus	Damion2: smth like echo 250000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq	15:29
GeneralAntilles	The difference in power consumption between 250MHz and 600MHz is relatively small compared to the difference between idle and in-use.	15:30
Damion2	GeneralAntilles: I see where you're going	15:30
Damion2	okay	15:30
mece	A very good point GeneralAntilles	15:30
Damion2	so even the encryption and X11 dealing that my ssh in xterm is doing should be using the correct amount at all times	15:30
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GeneralAntilles	So in one case, you have the CPU consuming slightly more power for a significantly shorter period of time and in the other you have it consuming slightly less power but consuming it over a much longer period of time.	15:30
GeneralAntilles	Damion2, the power saving is quite intelligent.	15:31
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GeneralAntilles	Damion2, it does a good job of picking the right CPU state for the job.	15:31
mece	I was thinking about the 3g battery eating. If I'm not mistaken, The same (somewhat) applies to 3g,. eg. the faster the connection, the shorter the time being connected.	15:31
Damion2	ideally when no data is passing it should be running idle, HLT instructions?	15:31
GeneralAntilles	mece, that depends on a larger number of variables, though.	15:31
slonopotamus	GeneralAntilles: then why not run with performance governor? :)	15:31
GeneralAntilles	Damion2, the CPU is consuming the next best thing to zero power when it's not in use.	15:32
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Damion2	excellent	15:32
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, because a long-running task that consumes a small amount of CPU will kill your battery, then.	15:32
mece	GeneralAntilles, yes, but in general, at least when moving around large amounts, I'd say that it's definately more battery friendly with a 5Mbps line than a 384kbps (like mine)	15:32
alterego	mece: where have you got the data to backup that theory? ^.^	15:33
GeneralAntilles	mece, of course if you're just pushing IRC packets around every so often and your network operator requires your modem to remain on for 60 seconds after every communication. . . .	15:33
GeneralAntilles	Then you'd be better off with EDGE.	15:33
mece	alterego, where did I give the impression that I have data?	15:34
alterego	:) You seem so sure :P	15:34
Damion2	has anyone done a widget that shows estimated time to battery drain, just like a laptop shows ?	15:34
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, for the optimal case, yes, locking to performance would offer better battery life (setting aside the obvious issue of killing your SoC).	15:34
mece	GeneralAntilles, yes, that is true. Edge vs 3G is totally different. Talking slow 3g vs fast 3g here. But for irc it's the same afaik.	15:34
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, but the optimal case is rarely the one that actually occurs in reality.	15:34
mece	alterego, just specualting.	15:34
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, and 600MHz at 1% or 250MHz at 2% can mean the difference between 5 and 10 hours of battery life.	15:35
alterego	Teeheehee	15:35
GeneralAntilles	Damion2, anyway, Nokia's powersaving engineers are good at their jobs. ;)	15:35
Damion2	has somebody done a widget or something which can toggle 2G/3G ?	15:35
alterego	I just swapped the video source to ximagesrc, now I'm streaming the N900's desktop over the network to my laptop.	15:35
slonopotamus	GeneralAntilles: if you have 2% of 250MHz for 10 hours, something is broken in your software.	15:35
Damion2	GeneralAntilles: well they excelled themselves on all previous devices	15:35
Damion2	I've not charged my phone last night and it's okay	15:36
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, :shrug: some people use broken software.	15:36
alterego	Hrm, performace isn't great.	15:36
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GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, for the average case, CPU throttling makes a lot of sense.	15:36
Damion2	I have a script which some logic based on lid closed etc, which I start in /etc/ip-up.d/ to take me off line and that helps	15:36
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GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, besides, with the N900, locking at 550MHz or above is going to kill your CPU.	15:36
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, so you have to throttle if you want max performance.	15:36
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slonopotamus	GeneralAntilles: how do you know that?	15:37
Damion2	wouldn't the cpu peg itself high if you stress it with some ffmpeg/gcc of whathave you ?	15:37
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, because Igor Stoppa and several TI engineers said so.	15:37
GeneralAntilles	Damion2, the powersaving setup have safety interlocks in place for that.	15:38
slonopotamus	so... did they disable performance governor then?	15:38
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Damion2	somebody is claiming http://www.derekhail.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/holly-valance-hot-t.jpg is coming to work in our office, and somebody looking just like that was at lunch	15:43
Shrik3	why would a singer work in an office?	15:43
Damion2	beats me	15:43
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tybollt	Damion2: SFW?	15:44
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Damion2	tybollt: that depends on where you work, if they monitor web traffic and if you care, or have your screen seen by anyone	15:45
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Damion2	frankly I'd risk goatse.cx at my desk as nobody can see it ;)	15:45
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tybollt	heh	15:46
Damion2	it's tame, just a pretty pic, dressed	15:46
Myrtti	tybollt: no nipples	15:46
ifreq	tittiessss	15:46
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tybollt	nipples is probably fine...	15:46
Myrtti	ifreq: yes, what about the bird? I rather like the song of the great tit	15:46
tybollt	2g1c is probably not	15:46
tybollt	;D	15:46
range	Myrtti: Too bad that the sex guys got that domain: nice-tits.org	15:47
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Myrtti	range: indeed	15:47
range	Because there were some very nice birds on there >:D	15:47
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Damion2	for those who've heard of tub girl, you should laugh at tubguy.com	15:52
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Damion2	and yes this IS SFW	15:52
mece	I can confir, it's sfw.	15:53
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mece	confirm too	15:53
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spectre-	the new goatse.cx is pretty funny too	15:54
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spectre-	also sfw last i checked	15:54
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Damion2	confirm	15:55
Damion2	now, does anyone know how to switch 2g to 3g programatically rather than via the UI settings	15:55
Damion2	settings UI that is	15:55
tybollt	Damion2: check the source code of the UI app? :)	15:56
Damion2	oh	15:56
* slonopotamus couldn't understand the purpose of that 2/3g switch app.		15:56
Damion2	that's a good idea. I've not yet grabbed it all	15:56
Damion2	slonopotamus: which one? there is one?	15:56
spectre-	i demand to be downgraded to 2g	15:57
spectre-	god damn newfangled 3g crap	15:57
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tybollt	Damion2: yes there's an app for changing between 2g and 3g	15:57
spectre-	:p	15:57
tybollt	heh	15:57
spectre-	sounds wierd to me	15:57
tybollt	they have just released 4g (LTE) here in Stockolm	15:57
Damion2	3G doesn't make it very well to the downstairs of my house, so the phone switches between them which causes a delay for ~7seconds when it does it and it keep bouncing	15:57
spectre-	ahhhhh	15:57
Damion2	also trains do this a lot, also don't need 3g for ssh (only browsing)	15:57
tybollt	Apparently current gen 4G maxes out at about 40Mbit/s	15:58
slonopotamus	why one wants to downgrade to 2g?	15:58
spectre-	4g can do much faster	15:58
spectre-	theoretically	15:58
tybollt	slonopotamus: to avoid flapping between 2g/3g	15:58
spectre-	100 to gigabit for stationary reception	15:58
tybollt	spectre-: in theory yes	15:58
Damion2	what speed can this n900 do ? I don't recall seeing over about 4Mbits/sec on any tyoe of connection, despite the 802.11Gness of it, or the 7.? max 3G	15:58
slonopotamus	tybollt: why one cares?	15:58
Damion2	slonopotamus: 3G doesn't make it very well to the downstairs of my house, so the phone switches between them which causes a delay for ~7seconds when it does it and it keep bouncing	15:59
* slonopotamus saw 3.5g on his n900 in some places. anyone knows what that means? :)		15:59
Damion2	slonopotamus: HSDPA rather than stock 3G I think	15:59
tybollt	slonopotamus: because as damion says when you are on the brink of 3G coverage and it starts flapping phonecalls can be disconnected and data can be as well	15:59
mgedmin	yep	15:59
slonopotamus	Damion2: oh. why you use 3g in your house at all? instead of wifi? :)	15:59
Damion2	slonopotamus: my phone switches up to that when I browse and request a lot of b/width	15:59
mgedmin	3G is UMTS/WCDMA, 3.5G is HSDPA	15:59
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slonopotamus	mgedmin: i see	15:59
mgedmin	should be quite faster	15:59
mgedmin	wikipedia has the numbers somewhere	16:00
mgedmin	I'm sure	16:00
Damion2	slonopotamus: when I'm connecting in to reboot my wifi router ;)	16:00
slonopotamus	Damion2: o_O	16:01
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tybollt	muahaha,. colleague got DAS keyboard	16:04
* tybollt impressed		16:04
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tybollt	would be nice to connect a das keyboard to my mini =)	16:06
tybollt	ehr, mu N900 =)	16:06
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alterego	It's weird how the video quality looks a little better (imho) when streamed and transcoded across the network to my laptop.	16:17
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range	tybollt: It's just too expensive.Das Keyboard is a Key Tronic ergoforce (or was, last time I looked). My Ergoforce did cost me EUR 20,- - and it still has all the characters.	16:24
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tybollt	range: this baby weighs in at like >1kg	16:26
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tybollt	range: so... you sure about that?	16:26
tybollt	it is blatantly heavy	16:26
tybollt	and oh... it's shiny >:D	16:26
range	Yeah, mine isn#	16:26
tybollt	Iono why but man does this thing trigguer the magpie in me :D	16:27
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range	't that light either (but the "'" is too close to the <RET>) :)	16:27
mece	is ther a gui editor for maemo5 that higlights code?	16:27
tybollt	vim	16:27
tybollt	is tehre	16:27
range	And that python editor.	16:27
tybollt	so I guess you want gvim	16:27
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lizardo	mece: pygtkeditor ?	16:28
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alterego	Have apple made their announcement yet? I can't wait, whatever ity is I'm going to get it the day it comes out.	16:35
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tybollt	har to tell if you're being sarcastic or not there :)	16:35
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* zash throws a nokia 3310 at alterego		16:36
alterego	:D	16:36
alterego	I hate Apple, so yes, I'm being sarcastic. But I would be interested to see what ideas they've stolen, and how big their next peice of polished shit is. ^.^	16:37
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tybollt	yes	16:37
tybollt	yes because we all want a shiny turd to put on the nightstand at the end of the day, don't we?	16:37
zaheerm	they stole multimultitasking :P	16:37
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flux	I just wondered on another channel how well an unnamed, unpriced, non-refundable item would sell on the apple store prior the event :)	16:38
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alterego	iHate Apple :)	16:39
zash	the iThing!!!! BUY IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!	16:39
zash	111	16:39
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: geoping	16:39
tybollt	7msg zash Hi where can I send some monneh?+++++	16:40
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zash	:D	16:40
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alterego	I'm know iFool!	16:40
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Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: c2	16:41
timeless_mbp	gah	16:41
timeless_mbp	i'll be down shortly	16:41
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* w00t mumbles		16:45
jebba	alterego: ya, i just put yours there.	16:45
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w00t	do I really need an icon to use py2deb?	16:45
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alterego	jebba: oh, right. Cool, well. I've rewrote it, and I'm probably going to implement a better system in python this evening :P	16:48
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alterego	I was thinking, if I attend the maemo summit this year. I'll stream it from an N900 to the internet for people to watch :)	16:48
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alterego	Or maybe, I could write an app that lets everyone stream their experience to the net.	16:53
alterego	Then people can choose which stream to watch if they're not there etc.	16:54
alterego	Could record it all too.	16:54
* alterego contemplates		16:54
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jebba	alterego: sounds cool. Gimme a copy when it's ready : )	16:56
pupnik	i suppose they could sue for iSpoof products	16:56
hrw	re	16:57
pupnik	hi hrw	16:57
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Matthew-	Damn	16:57
Matthew-	my phone heated up	16:57
Matthew-	and burned my leg	16:57
Matthew-	it was in my pocket only with headphones	16:57
SpeedEvil	that's not good.	16:57
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Matthew-	no coins, no lighter, no metal apart from the 3.5 jack	16:58
Matthew-	what could it be?	16:58
SpeedEvil	with the battery in the phone?	16:58
SpeedEvil	and the n900?	16:58
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alterego	Eesh	16:58
Matthew-	SpeedEvil: yes	16:58
alterego	I noticed mine ge4ts warm when I'm tethering my laptop sometimes.	16:58
alterego	Not hot though, and it happened to my symbian phone too, so I guessed it was normal.	16:59
zash	N900 - now with built in microwave!	16:59
alterego	Teeheehee	16:59
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tybollt	uhm	16:59
tybollt	exploding batteries - anyone??	17:00
lopz	hi ;=)	17:00
pupnik	first report i have seen of a n900 getting 'hot'. skeptical.	17:01
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SpeedEvil	Matthew-: Are we talking 'ow - that's a bit too warm' or melted plastic and second degree burns?	17:01
SpeedEvil	I would call nokia care personally.	17:02
SpeedEvil	And certainly not use the battery again	17:02
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mgedmin	mine gets noticeably warm after intensive use	17:02
SpeedEvil	It is a real nokia bat?	17:02
SpeedEvil	yes - noticably warm I'll agree with.	17:02
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SpeedEvil	Hot - unless you're doing something strange - no.	17:02
SpeedEvil	(it got very warm when under my pillow when trackerd kicked in	17:03
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tybollt	under your pillow?	17:04
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tybollt	huh?	17:04
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Milo-	porn before sleep?	17:05
Milo-	or did you try to kill the alarm?	17:06
SpeedEvil	ebooks	17:06
SpeedEvil	fbreader++	17:06
SpeedEvil	and not porn ebooks either.	17:06
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Damion2	right, busybox crond works	17:11
Damion2	I'm not a fan of calendar systems. crontab -e is my preferred interface	17:11
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tybollt	SpeedEvil: porn ebooks? I've got a cybook, it does ... 4 shares of grey.... good luck w/ pr0n on ebook :D	17:14
tybollt	shades	17:14
SpeedEvil	tybollt: text	17:15
tybollt	erotic novels	17:15
tybollt	dear jebuis that's boring :)	17:15
SpeedEvil	Tastes vary. The internet has all sorts of things - even if you're into Snape/Dumbledore slash.	17:15
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tybollt	dumbledre pr0n... good grief you nearly made me hurl my lunch on the keyboard here...	17:16
tybollt	=)	17:16
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pupnik	'There was no need to stick the wand in that hard,' he (Dumbledore) said gruffly, clambering to his feet. 'It hurt.'	17:24
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zash	pupnik: http://www.bash.org/?111338	17:26
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pupnik	h3h	17:31
tybollt	:-)	17:31
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pupnik	For the past three decades the city of Port au Prince has grown from approximately 300,000 to over 2.5 million inhabitants.	17:32
pupnik	amusingly, those with only shacks and tents had no rubble to be buried-under	17:33
GeneralAntilles	Haiti's been having a tough few years.	17:34
pupnik	http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/20/haiti-suffering-earthquake-punitive-relationship	17:35
pupnik	damn wrong channel	17:35
tybollt	free n900 to all haitians?	17:35
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GeneralAntilles	Damn, nice screenshots: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=497612#post497612	17:35
pupnik	good modern style on the graphics	17:36
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zash	tybollt: didn't openstreetmap do somtin'	17:36
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tybollt	no idea	17:37
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GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, ping?	17:38
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AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, Pong	17:38
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GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, so, I think with Quim's money talks the minimum we should try to shoot for is some table livery.	17:39
RST38h	tybollt: Free hard drugs, firearms, and ammo to all haitians!	17:39
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GeneralAntilles	$3.99 for a COLOR SCHEME?! http://nokia-n900.com/paid-theme-n900-az-theme-mmmooo/	17:40
SpeedEvil	well...	17:41
GeneralAntilles	Egads, they're selling it as a .deb?!	17:41
SpeedEvil	supply and demand	17:41
GeneralAntilles	We have arrived, I suppose.	17:41
* GeneralAntilles takes some aspirin for the impending headache.		17:41
range	Selling it as a .deb looks like a real smart idea.	17:42
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GeneralAntilles	range, yeah, since your customers have to dpkg -i it.	17:42
RST38h	GeneralAntilles vs general mobile phone community	17:43
range	Oh, they even have a HowTo.	17:43
range	http://shop.immmooo.com/affiliates/product/product_view.php?product_id=496#Description	17:43
GeneralAntilles	OK, we really need news to trim stories with more than 1000 vertical pixels of images.	17:43
* RST38h suspects General has never heard of ringtones and screen backgrounds for $3.99 a pop		17:43
range	Download the .deb on your pc and transfer it N900's root folder	17:43
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, I have, but not on Maemo.	17:43
GeneralAntilles	range, egads.	17:43
GeneralAntilles	range, they're missing a step.	17:43
RST38h	It's a phone now :)	17:43
range	GeneralAntilles: ssssht	17:44
GeneralAntilles	Somebody please go beat these people up.	17:44
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AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, Iḿ not sure who is going ot head up writing the Marketing Plan for the money	17:45
RST38h	So, are Apple fanboys in the US rolling out their prayer mats just about now?	17:45
tybollt	well	17:45
tybollt	$DEITY knows the free schemes out there are a bag of fail :)	17:45
tybollt	epic fail :)	17:45
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zaheerm	RST38h, more like asking banks for extended overdrafts	17:46
AndrewFBlack	tybollt, please tell me know that $4 theme looks better then my Free one?	17:46
RST38h	zaheerm: THAT expensive?	17:47
tybollt	AndrewFBlack: which one is yours?	17:47
AndrewFBlack	tybollt, maemo.org	17:47
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, clearly.	17:47
zaheerm	RST38h, if you bought every apple product they released, you'd either have to be mega rich or in financial problems	17:47
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, it's $4. :P	17:47
AndrewFBlack	I would think I could get $5 for mine if that one is $4	17:48
alterego	Just had my device get stuck in portrait, that was fun. Quiet easy to fix.	17:48
AndrewFBlack	Infact there is an open source Matrix one just like $4 one	17:48
alterego	~quite ..	17:48
RST38h	zaheerm: They make money on Appl estock! =)	17:48
* RST38h ===> home		17:48
tybollt	AndrewFBlack: Fair enough I'll test it more extensively then :)	17:49
glass_	RST38h: :DD	17:49
range	AndrewFBlack: Yours is just to easy to install.	17:49
AndrewFBlack	tybollt, I´m just asking whats wrong with it I hear people in here everyday say all Fremantle themes are epic fails, if thats a case tell me why that is	17:49
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* AndrewFBlack is starting to get tired of working on themes to hear people just bitch about them		17:50
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GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, I had some notes.	17:50
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, I need to reinstall it and look again.	17:51
AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, ok	17:51
alterego	Any screenshots?	17:51
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tybollt	AndrewFBlack: yours is way WAY better than others I've tested.	17:51
tybollt	AndrewFBlack: so you have the moral highgroung here :)	17:52
tybollt	d	17:52
AndrewFBlack	alterego, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41363 screenshtos	17:52
AndrewFBlack	I have been fighting all the people on t.m.o from just releasing .debs or folders of themes	17:53
AndrewFBlack	BTW I got themes their own section now outside of Design to make them easier to find	17:53
alterego	Look quite pleasant to me, though I'm not really a fan of orange ;)	17:54
tybollt	yeah I dislike the colours too but that's not my "FAIL" poiint	17:54
alterego	Quite like the icons,	17:54
tybollt	I used I think it was hitech for a few days	17:54
tybollt	where you couldn't even distinguish some buttons	17:54
tybollt	grrr	17:54
hendry	https://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing#Sections where is the hello world example? will user/web work?	17:55
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, OK, first thought is that the desktop background interacts weirdly with the operator name.	17:55
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GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, it looks like it's underlining that text.	17:55
alterego	Yeah, I think it's too close.	17:55
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GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, not in love with the gradient on the menu buttons.	17:56
AndrewFBlack	Lose grey border or just make it come down futher?	17:56
jebba	hendry: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Package_Building_HOWTO	17:56
alterego	Are those to "Julie" contacts the same juli?	17:56
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, I'd bring the gradient down a few notches and darken it up a lot.	17:56
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, make it come down more.	17:56
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, the border is a nice effect.	17:56
alterego	~two	17:56
infobot	picobot: three	17:56
AndrewFBlack	alterego, two My Wife and Wifeś Best Frend	17:56
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, I like how the border interacts with the status area bar.	17:56
alterego	AndrewFBlack: so they're not the same person?	17:57
tybollt	~four	17:57
infobot	picobot: five	17:57
AndrewFBlack	alterego, Not same person	17:57
alterego	:) Confusing :)	17:57
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, ah, right, I remember my big one.	17:57
GeneralAntilles	Invert the text entry flieds.	17:58
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GeneralAntilles	and I'd say drop the orange border.	17:58
AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, by menu buttons you mean ones on desktop for shortcuts	17:58
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GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, the buttons you see when you tap the application name.	17:58
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2240466/Maemo/Screenshots/maemo-org-5.png	17:59
GeneralAntilles	The Dialing Pad/Select contact widgets.	17:59
GeneralAntilles	Darken them up a bit and reduce the severity of the gradient.	17:59
GeneralAntilles	Also, kill the orange text shadow.	17:59
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GeneralAntilles	It just looks like JPEG compression artifacting	17:59
GeneralAntilles	Or maybe SGX corruption. :P	17:59
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GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, I'm inclined to think a white theme would look really nice.	18:00
GeneralAntilles	More inline with the website styling.	18:00
AndrewFBlack	been thinking of making a while one but I think I might run into some problems like we have on Diablo with dark ones	18:01
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GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, Ian was working on a light one.	18:02
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GeneralAntilles	Biggest problem was with the chat UI	18:02
GeneralAntilles	But I think timeless figured that one out.	18:02
AndrewFBlack	Text shadow is hard because it uses secondary color and if I make it black anywhere it uses secondary text color you will have black text on dark grey background	18:03
GeneralAntilles	But, anyway, right now I don't thing there's enough contrast between the menubar and the content background	18:03
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, really? Nice. . . .	18:03
GeneralAntilles	I'd recommend making the menu gradient darker.	18:03
AndrewFBlack	ok	18:04
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GAN900	AndrewFBlack, try sticking a maemo.org logo (perhaps in a white/gray?) in the bottom right of pano desktop #1?	18:05
pupnik	trademark infringement!	18:07
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AndrewFBlack	pupnik, we can use maemo.org logo just can´t use Maemo	18:10
tybollt	that's one of the things	18:11
tybollt	how nokia is maemo.org	18:11
tybollt	really	18:11
AndrewFBlack	tybollt, not really	18:12
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GeneralAntilles	tybollt, er?	18:12
AndrewFBlack	GAN900, You know if Texrat is working on purposal for a Marketing budget?	18:12
GeneralAntilles	pupnik, lol.	18:12
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, not a clue.	18:12
pupnik	anyway thick skin. only comments like GA's are worthy of listening to	18:13
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, I'm just pondering evil ways to squander it.	18:13
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AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, lol See maybe you can go to SELF this year	18:13
pupnik	offer bounties for games. i'll tell them what needs to be done	18:13
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	18:13
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, I'm flying business!	18:14
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lcuk	sand and salt-water testing using caribbean beaches involving multiples testers for the difference salt concentrations on each island	18:14
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lcuk	GeneralAntilles, ^	18:14
w00t	mmmm	18:15
w00t	i'm up for that	18:15
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, I'm actually kinda not that tired of beaches and hot weather.	18:15
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, cold winter. . . .	18:15
lcuk	well that works as well, have to check how they handle going from hot to cold climates	18:15
lcuk	repeatedly	18:15
* w00t stares out the window at soggy, overcast hull		18:16
* w00t dreams of lying on a beach.		18:17
GeneralAntilles	w00t, I grew up 4 blocks from the beach. So bored with beaches.	18:17
w00t	GeneralAntilles: I grew up in australia, moved to one of the wetter parts of england 4 years ago	18:17
w00t	I regret it far too often	18:18
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	18:18
w00t	it's a bit of "grass is always greener" though	18:18
w00t	I could never stand the summers there, they were always too hot	18:18
w00t	I deliberately went home in winter there a few years ago, and still went to the beach, swimming, etc	18:18
w00t	the locals looked at me like I was insane	18:19
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Corsac	TuneWiki is nice but won't play oggs :(	18:26
Corsac	even with extra codecs	18:26
javispedro	heh.	18:26
javispedro	i just received a nokia.com email originally intended for someone else.	18:27
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GeneralAntilles	javispedro, PR1.2 cancelled, N920 shipping with Maemo 6 (i.e., PR1.2) in 2 weeks?	18:27
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* w00t grins painfully		18:28
javispedro	No. much worse. They're congratulating me for buying the N85.	18:28
Corsac	GeneralAntilles: free of charge for every #maemo user	18:28
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, lol.	18:28
GeneralAntilles	Corsac, haaaaaaaaaaa. . . .	18:28
* javispedro notes the intended recipient phone number is right there, in plain text.		18:29
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zaheerm	javispedro, ouch	18:29
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, clearly you should call and congratulate them.	18:29
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VDVsx	javispedro, you should tell them that the N85 is broken and ask from a replacement ;)	18:30
javispedro	"Yes, I'm placing this international phone call just to tell you that Nokia messed up and sent me your N85 "welcome" email..."	18:31
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lardman	w00t: so you moved to Bath then?	18:31
javispedro	This is the mail address I gave them for the Ovi store account, so they're the responsible ones >:)	18:31
lardman	seems to us to be the wettest place in England ;)	18:32
javispedro	VDVsx: yes, I can't connect it to PC Suite! :( ;)	18:32
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w00t	lardman: hull	18:33
lardman	oh ok, you might beat us then	18:33
w00t	I can count on two hands the number of sunny days I've seen in these past 4 years	18:33
lardman	lol	18:33
lardman	that's the effect of the smog too though ;)	18:34
w00t	haha	18:34
w00t	nooo	18:34
w00t	clear skies up here	18:34
w00t	it's certainly not beautiful though ;)	18:34
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lardman	Well despite the weather I'd perfer to be in Oz right now	18:37
zaheerm	same here	18:37
w00t	grin	18:37
w00t	as I said, always greener	18:37
zaheerm	can watch the tennis	18:37
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* w00t is looking forward to moving to .no eventually		18:38
pupnik	i wonder who here even has used 'PC Suite'	18:38
lardman	w00t: what nationality are you?	18:38
lardman	pupnik: yeah	18:38
lardman	what's up?	18:38
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pupnik	failsauce. constant.	18:39
w00t	lardman: dual british/australian, however I'm engaged to a norwegian.. I like to call myself 'nationality confused'	18:39
lardman	w00t: ok	18:39
pupnik	congrats w00t	18:39
lardman	indeed :)	18:39
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pupnik	engagement is win, of sorts	18:40
w00t	ta	18:40
w00t	been a long while coming, and still a long while to go :P	18:40
lardman	well it's actually not win as you need to buy a ring	18:40
w00t	lardman: tell me about it	18:40
lardman	I got married last year	18:40
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w00t	that really screwed up my 2009 mid year finances	18:41
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lardman	I know that feeling :)	18:41
pupnik	girl i wanted to marry got .. instead of a ring... a cross plated with a new electrochemical procedure invented by her pHd husband	18:41
* w00t blinks		18:42
pupnik	that is style	18:42
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lardman	not sure my wife would have really appreciated anything manufactured by her phd husband-to-be other than a ring ;)	18:43
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luke-jr	ring is supposed to be life insurance :)	18:43
luke-jr	if you die, she can sell it	18:44
lardman	here you are darling, it's really great thermal image analysis software, you can wear in a memory stick around your neck..... fail!	18:44
w00t	hahaha	18:44
w00t	epic win more like	18:44
zaheerm	lardman, if it's got real diamonds on it, then a win	18:44
lardman	luke-jr: money is better kept liquid though, as wives inherit that too	18:45
* w00t has written software for a specific person once, as a birthday present		18:45
w00t	back in the day..	18:45
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luke-jr	lardman: well, that's what the ring is for ;	18:46
luke-jr	:p	18:46
Damion2	is the 2g/3g toggle app in extra-devel ? Do I need to add jebba's repository ?	18:46
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lardman	no, that's a token of your committment, otherwise why loose the >30% on the conversion back to cash?	18:46
w00t	commitment, hmph	18:46
lardman	I guess it's easily portable though :)	18:47
w00t	we should all be more sensible and just keep the extra cash	18:47
lardman	girls like sparkly things	18:47
w00t	(i'm so lucky there aren't many women on irc)	18:47
Damion2	ahha found it 3g2g-mode-selection-applet	18:47
luke-jr	why not get a replica then?	18:47
Damion2	I can manually browse to it	18:47
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luke-jr	w00t: the only ring I have ever bought was about $10 or so	18:47
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lardman	I've only bought 2 and they were a bit more expensive	18:48
w00t	^	18:48
luke-jr	as lardman said, better to keep money liquid these days-- and then you're left with a mere symbol :p	18:49
luke-jr	no reason to spend lots on a symbol	18:49
alterego	Hah, just crashged my device decoding an rtp stream ^.^	18:50
alterego	Well, cause it to reboo ^.^	18:50
pupnik	economics discussion to ##economics	18:50
alterego	(note: ffmpeg kills tablet) ^.^	18:50
lardman	pupnik: true :)	18:51
hendry	is there a way to debug why my shortcut is failing to run?	18:51
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Damion2	nice and 21.01.2010 18:35 8606	18:53
Damion2	oops	18:53
Damion2	3g2g-mode-selection-applet works perfectly, lovely :)	18:53
* Damion2 removes an item from his todo list		18:53
SpeedEvil	Damion2: in the event that you're connected does it postpone change?	18:53
Damion2	nope	18:54
Damion2	it changes and keeps you connected	18:54
Damion2	although it does pop up a notice that cellular connection not available in a small yellow bar at the top	18:54
SpeedEvil	doesn't ip change/	18:54
Damion2	nope	18:54
Damion2	well not with O2	18:54
Damion2	UK	18:54
SpeedEvil	neat	18:54
Damion2	other carriers might suck	18:54
SpeedEvil	tmobile-uk here	18:54
SpeedEvil	was cheapest	18:54
SpeedEvil	25 quid for 6 months net and calls	18:55
Damion2	I know for example that "3" dont' permit the same SIM to connect to two separate APNs at the same time	18:55
Damion2	I think voda were same	18:55
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lcuk	hendry, pastebin the .desktop file and we can have a look, no promises tho	18:55
Damion2	not a common use case, but I could ssh via wap.o2.co.uk and mobile.o2.co.uk one via tethering, once from the s2putty on the e90 and I got two IPs via same 3g connection	18:56
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Damion2	it's amazing how often I need strings and strace	18:58
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* Damion2 will assume/hope they're in deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/tools free		18:58
SpeedEvil	strace is	18:58
Wizzup	No screen in the repos? :(	18:59
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SpeedEvil	strings isn't	18:59
SpeedEvil	screen is	18:59
SpeedEvil	Install these packages without verification [y/N]? y	18:59
SpeedEvil	Get:1 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/free screen 4.0.3-0.3osso4+0m5 [595kB]	18:59
Wizzup	apt-cache can't find it afaik	18:59
Wizzup	hm....	18:59
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Matthew-	can we install .cab files ?	19:00
SpeedEvil	cab files are typically a windows thing	19:00
woglinde	matthew no only extract	19:00
SpeedEvil	I think they are really zips - so you can unzip them	19:00
woglinde	with cabextract	19:00
SpeedEvil	but - unless you build qemu...	19:01
woglinde	if someone has ported it	19:01
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Damion2	somebody must have done strings	19:01
Matthew-	yeah im trying to install citrix	19:01
Matthew-	on my cell	19:01
woglinde	speedevil wahaha not vmware again on the tablets	19:01
luke-jr	Matthew-: fail	19:01
SpeedEvil	woglinde: no - vmware of course won't work.	19:02
SpeedEvil	woglinde: qemu should though.	19:02
SpeedEvil	not especially fast of course.	19:02
woglinde	speedevil the vmware embedded hypervisor runs on the n800 fine	19:02
Wizzup	SpeedEvil: Package screen is not available, but is referred to by another package.	19:02
Wizzup	Am I missing a repos?	19:02
woglinde	wince and maemo at the same time	19:02
SpeedEvil	seeabove line	19:02
SpeedEvil	Wizzup:	19:02
woglinde	or was it win95	19:02
woglinde	cannt remember	19:02
SpeedEvil	woglinde: I was meaning to run x86 content	19:03
SpeedEvil	Though running wince stuff might be interesting too	19:03
Damion2	mode-selection-applet.c is 99% gui/gtk efforts, I'm still trying to see the one line of C which does the switch	19:03
woglinde	speedevil didnt you see the video?	19:03
Matthew-	luke-jr: why?	19:03
Damion2	it includes dbus, so it's probably possible via a cmdline, which means I could have a cmd icon to press rather than having to open the top widget	19:03
SpeedEvil	woglinde: no.	19:03
woglinde	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNo6pn-dnSQ	19:04
woglinde	there you go	19:04
SpeedEvil	woglinde: oh - I missed that video	19:04
woglinde	its no fke	19:04
woglinde	args fake	19:04
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luke-jr	Matthew-: N900 doesn't run Windows crap	19:06
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luke-jr	or rather, Windows crap doesn't work on anything but a single platform	19:07
Wizzup	SpeedEvil: so the SDK reposses	19:07
SpeedEvil	yes	19:07
* Wizzup isn't sure if he wants to add that		19:07
leod	N900 doesn't run Windows, crap!	19:07
GeneralAntilles	wazd!	19:08
woglinde	hm I am sure ti has a ce port for omap3550	19:08
wazd	hello all	19:08
woglinde	jo wazd	19:08
wazd	waiting for Jobsie to rock the world :)	19:08
GeneralAntilles	wazd, those app downloader mockups really turned out amazing!	19:08
wazd	GeneralAntilles: glad to hear that :)	19:09
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* lardman heads home		19:10
woglinde	bye lardmn	19:10
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LuciusMare	hello	19:11
LuciusMare	i stream a video over http with vlc, and try to catch it at my tablet with mplayer - sound is fine, but there is no video, the whole output is there: http://pastebin.com/f7b3a9880	19:13
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woglinde	????	19:14
LuciusMare	"???"?	19:15
woglinde	Ogg stream 1 is of an unknown type	19:15
LuciusMare	.	19:15
LuciusMare	I also dont know.	19:16
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red	LuciusMare: try to mux as acf and not ogg	19:21
LuciusMare	acf?	19:21
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LuciusMare	haha, this is funny	19:21
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red	or just use Knots	19:21
LuciusMare	at my tablet, nothing but sound, and here ctching the stream from localhots, nothing but video	19:21
red	if ur not familiar with that stuff	19:21
LuciusMare	*catching	19:22
LuciusMare	*localhost	19:22
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pupnik	please nokia put the n810 speakers in the next phone. they were awesome.	19:23
derf	Are you serious? I could barely hear them at max volume. I can't even turn my N900 up to max volume; it would hurt.	19:23
luke-jr	lol	19:24
woglinde	as we figured yesterday out	19:24
woglinde	to control volume the real way	19:25
woglinde	you have to use alsamixer and alsamixer -c0	19:25
pupnik	derf: don't confuse the volume limited n810 drivers with the capability of the speakers. they can fill a room with sound	19:25
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pupnik	stunning... amazing...	19:25
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derf	All I know is I can't hear the navigation instructions in a car with the thing sitting on the dashboard in front of me.	19:26
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derf	At least not while the car is operating.	19:26
pupnik	ok that sucks	19:26
woglinde	derf you are using my navit package?	19:26
derf	No, this was with maemo mapper.	19:27
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pupnik	try mplayer or something... loud as.. f**k	19:27
pupnik	i can lay n810 on a table and listen to lectures from other rooms	19:28
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LuciusMare	ooooppss,, hhaadd aannyybbooddyy hahadd tthhee pprroobblleemm wwiitthh ccrraazzyy kkeeyybbooaarrdd rreeppeeaattiinngg aallll ggiivveenn cchhaarraacctteerrss mmoorree ttiimmees	19:28
woglinde	maemomapper has navigation function?	19:28
derf	Sure it does.	19:28
woglinde	hu?	19:29
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woglinde	never saw it	19:29
LuciusMare	wweellll,,ii ddoo	19:29
pupnik	derf, i recall that problem. it is some brain damaged 'lets not play anything too loud to get sued' problem	19:29
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woglinde	or functional	19:29
derf	You can go in to "Download Route..." or whatever it was, and enter addresses.	19:29
LuciusMare	oohh,,yyoouu wweerree nnoott ttaallkkiingng ttoo mmee	19:29
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woglinde	download route?	19:30
woglinde	wtf?	19:30
derf	And it pulls turn-by-turn instructions with waypoints at each turn, and reads them with text-to-speech when you approach one.	19:30
Lynoure	LuciusMare: poor you.	19:30
woglinde	whats when you are offline?	19:30
LuciusMare	iinnddeeeedd	19:30
derf	No, you have to download it while you're online.	19:30
pupnik	LuciusMare: your comments here have been pretty stupid	19:30
woglinde	derf whaha this suckz	19:30
derf	It's not ideal.	19:31
woglinde	navit can do this all complete offline	19:31
derf	But it works okay.	19:31
derf	Yes, but I could do this two+ years ago.	19:31
LuciusMare	iitt mmiigghhtt bebe ccaaususeedd bby y tthhee ffaacctt tthhaatt ii aamm s stutuppiidd .:pP	19:31
derf	Whereas I've only just now heard of navit.	19:31
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LuciusMare	ookkaayy,, tthhiiss iiss aannnnooyyiinngg,, nnooboboddyy hahadd memett tthhiiss ebbeeffoorree	19:32
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woglinde	derf the package right now is not optimal	19:33
woglinde	but I am working on it	19:33
pupnik	LuciusMare: what device are you using?	19:33
LuciusMare	rorovveerr	19:33
pupnik	There is a problem related to repeated keys but i can't find the source, sorry.	19:34
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LuciusMare	hhhheehhhh..	19:34
LuciusMare	tthhaannkkss ffoorr aat t lleeaasstt ttrriinngg	19:35
LuciusMare	leettss hohoppee rreebboooott ffixixees s itit	19:35
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pupnik	please do. gollum mode is annoying	19:36
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andre__	garr. so what was again the command to find out from which repository an installed package came from?	19:41
* andre__ getting lost with dpkg and apt-get		19:41
Matthew-	;-)	19:42
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luke-jr	andre__: not possible afaik	19:45
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andre__	gnarf	19:46
VDVsx	andre__, apt-cache show package_name (look at filename field)	19:46
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VDVsx	there's a easier way, but can't remember atm	19:47
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woglinde	apt-cache showpkg package	19:48
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andre__	thanks. now wondering where I should write this down for the next time :)	19:48
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VDVsx	woglinde, that's better :)	19:49
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GeneralAntilles	andre__, infobot?	19:50
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woglinde	~infobot snack	19:52
* infobot snack? yes yeaaas yeaaaaaaaaaaas pleaaase :P		19:52
SpeedEvil	F****** thumbnailerd.	19:52
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javispedro	so, where are the failsafes for that "prolonged 600Mhz equals fry" story?	19:54
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javispedro	cause I just noticed that what I initially though were the failsafes is the sgx driver blocking (and idling the cpu)	19:55
Khertan__	[18:46] == #maemo Please register with services and use the IDENTIFY command (/msg nickserv help) to speak in this channel	19:55
Khertan__	this suck !	19:55
*** Khertan__ is now known as Khertan		19:55
Shadikka	We had our share of the spambots recently	19:55
Khertan	[18:46] == #maemo Please register with services and use the IDENTIFY command (/msg nickserv help) to speak in this channel	19:55
wirelessdreamer	has anyone had their audio cutting out on phone calls with their n900?	19:55
javispedro	but when no sgx is involved, the thing happily stays at 600mhz.	19:55
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Khertan	i was talking to /dev/null	19:55
Khertan	someone know a way to record screen on n900	19:56
Khertan	?	19:56
GeneralAntilles	Sorry, Khertan.	19:56
GeneralAntilles	Will take it off as soon as the spambots are done for. :\	19:56
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, prod Igor?	19:57
zaheerm	gst-launch ximagesrc ! <pick_an_encoder> ! <pick_a_muxer> ! filesink location=<filename>	19:57
SpeedEvil	Where is the tracker database?	19:57
javispedro	SpeedEvil: $HOME/.cache	19:58
X-Fade	Ok, Packages interface now also supports diablo: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/diablo_extras-devel_free_armel/	19:58
X-Fade	diablo promotion is now done through the packages interface too.	19:58
javispedro	or $XDG_CACHE_DIR :)	19:58
javispedro	X-Fade: ow, nice!	19:58
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X-Fade	Direct promotion, no testing queue though ;)	19:58
javispedro	X-Fade: can we start promoting things right now? :)	19:58
X-Fade	Yes	19:58
X-Fade	So I can see if it breaks somewhere ;)	19:59
SpeedEvil	hmm - how did I miss that...	19:59
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javispedro	X-Fade: pre-dependencies missing! >:)	20:00
X-Fade	javispedro: yes, yes. :)	20:00
X-Fade	javispedro: just push those first ;)	20:01
X-Fade	javispedro: At least it does more checking than the old promoter.	20:01
javispedro	oh.	20:02
javispedro	maemo-installer-utils...	20:02
javispedro	i think that was provided by hildon-app-mgr iirc	20:02
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VDVsx	the next wow is about to be announced , lol	20:02
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X-Fade	Should handle provides like it does in fremantle.	20:02
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X-Fade	javispedro: Provides:	20:03
X-Fade	maemo-installer-utils, maemo-select-menu-location	20:03
javispedro	i think it needs a bit more time, some packages are missing	20:03
javispedro	i.e. drnoksnes	20:04
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X-Fade	Hmm weird, import should have finished a long time ago.	20:04
Khertan	Hi again (try 6)	20:04
Khertan	~ping	20:05
infobot	~pong	20:05
javispedro	hi khertan	20:05
Khertan	oh god ! now every one can read me	20:05
Khertan	very annoying that identify is required for speaking but it s prevent from changing nick	20:06
Pavlov	is it possible to get maemo.org to serve .install files with the right mimetype?	20:06
Pavlov	who would i talk to about that?;)	20:06
Khertan	so does there is a way to make a screencast on n900 that record pygame display output too ?	20:07
Khertan	(load doesn t record pygame display)	20:07
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javispedro	sorry X-Fade, I completely forgot it was removed!	20:07
X-Fade	javispedro: I don't see your app in extras-devel ;)	20:07
Khertan	other question does there is a pygane expert in the room ? i need some advice to speed up my game	20:07
X-Fade	javispedro: duh, yeah :)	20:08
lcuk	VDVsx, it doesnt stop! which	20:08
X-Fade	javispedro: Was grepping the Packages file already ;)	20:08
GeneralAntilles	Pavlov, you want X-Fade. ;)	20:08
VDVsx	lcuk, apple chocolate tablet :p	20:09
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X-Fade	Pavlov: Which file, where?	20:09
lcuk	Khertan, same advice as always, minimal streamlined, use the library functions where possible if you can offload some direct python processing to a core c lib, do so	20:09
Stskeeps	X-Fade: btw, any special reason for update1 vs update2 in autobuilder?	20:09
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Update2 was the latest that worked.	20:09
Stskeeps	X-Fade: well, autobuilder is at update1 at the moment	20:10
X-Fade	Stskeeps: No?	20:10
GeneralAntilles	Can you imagine what a triumph an Apple tablet might've been if they had combined the best parts of the Newton with a real OS X?	20:10
wazd	iPad, haha :)	20:10
Khertan	lcuk : it s what i do ... but the rendering is very slow (60fps to 7fps)	20:10
Khertan	ah apple as announced something ?	20:11
* lcuk cant wait for flipbook style n900 apps		20:11
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Ehm, yes ;)	20:11
javispedro	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/diablo_extras-devel_free_armel/openttd-data/0.7.4-1maemo3/	20:11
Khertan	the iphoneos 4 with 2 apps max to do multitasks ?	20:11
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Khertan	:)	20:11
Stskeeps	X-Fade: reason i was wondering is cos it doesn't have hildon-theme-layout-5 and theme makers are getting kinda hurt by that :P	20:11
GeneralAntilles	Khertan, ah, interesting point.	20:11
Stskeeps	(update2 has)	20:12
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GeneralAntilles	Khertan, no multitasking is vaguely justifiable on a freaking phone, but on a tablet it's downright insane.	20:12
VDVsx	Ipad is a A4 size Iphone, lol	20:12
X-Fade	Stskeeps: The lets compare update2 and 1.	20:12
Khertan	GeneralAntilles : i was jokking	20:12
X-Fade	*then	20:12
javispedro	VDVsx: are they announcing it now?	20:12
Stskeeps	http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/5.0update1_vs_5.0update2_content_comparison.html	20:12
VDVsx	javispedro,	20:12
VDVsx	yes	20:12
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VDVsx	javispedro, http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/live-from-the-apple-tablet-latest-creation-event/?sort=newest&refresh=30	20:12
wazd	looks boring	20:12
VDVsx	yeah	20:12
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wazd	changeable wallpapers!	20:13
Stskeeps	heh, a4 iphone?	20:13
Stskeeps	oh dear	20:13
wazd	now thats a revolution!	20:13
javispedro	lol	20:13
VDVsx	steve said that apple is the biggest mobile company in the world :D	20:13
Khertan	rrrrhhhha a 8bit display is slower than 16 bits with pygame on n900	20:13
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javispedro	as usual Jobs has said "runs PC applications" is a con for netbooks, and he'll get away with it.	20:13
RST38h	wazd: moooo?	20:13
wazd	RST38h: heya :)	20:13
zash	VDVsx: for apples definition of "mobile" ofc	20:13
Khertan	VDVsx : steve is ill ... do not rely on what he said	20:14
RST38h	What? The scheduled coming of Apple Jesus has started?	20:14
javispedro	yes	20:14
X-Fade	Ipad.. duh ;)	20:14
Stskeeps	RST38h: in A4 form	20:14
Stskeeps	:P	20:14
RST38h	OMG	20:14
RST38h	Stskeeps: OMG	20:14
* RST38h awed		20:14
wazd	it's not even widescreen)	20:14
javispedro	iPad was the name the idiots were thinking jobs would use for a "dockable USB pad" or something like that	20:14
Stskeeps	also	20:14
RST38h	"Drivers of vehicles weighing more than 10,000 pounds have been banned from sending text messages while driving in the US"	20:14
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javispedro	oh the irony.	20:15
zash	HP suing for trademark too similar to "iPAQ" in 3.. 2.. 1..	20:15
RST38h	Has HP got rights for "hPaq" already?	20:16
javispedro	so.	20:16
wazd	iPod, iPad, iPud, iPid, iPed	20:16
VDVsx	can't see any advantage comparing to a laptop only disadvantages	20:16
wazd	iPed, lolz	20:16
cehteh	iTurd	20:16
javispedro	Apple itself uses the fact that they have been getting free promotion as promotion.	20:16
RST38h	Well one thing I can immediately see is that bezel is too thick	20:16
cehteh	iPet	20:16
* VDVsx wants a iPet		20:16
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, indeed.	20:16
VDVsx	lol	20:16
Khertan	... ... ... hum pygame doesn t seems optimized at all when running my game ... but works well for solarwolf ... i didn t understand where my game is so slow	20:17
javispedro	Khertan: PR1.1?	20:17
X-Fade	"10:16AM We're basically just watching Steve casually browse. This is odd."	20:17
wazd	http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0128-rm-eng.jpg	20:17
X-Fade	lol ;)	20:17
VDVsx	Khertan, are you in fullscreen mode ?	20:17
wazd	HAHA	20:17
Khertan	javispedro : yep	20:17
Stskeeps	is it just me or does that just look like moblin?	20:17
Khertan	VDVsx : yep fullscreen	20:17
javispedro	the launcher is ridiculous.	20:17
Khertan	solarwolf run well ... so mine should too	20:17
javispedro	the could have increased the number of items or the icon size.	20:18
VDVsx	Khertan, so you should have full power	20:18
Khertan	so mine need to be optimized	20:18
javispedro	but I guess redefining the constant was too effort.	20:18
javispedro	s/too/too much	20:18
X-Fade	Looks fairly low res.	20:18
Khertan	the constant ?	20:18
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VDVsx	can it multitask ? :p	20:18
javispedro	Khertan: not talking about your topic, sorry :P	20:18
wazd	keyboard is super lame	20:18
RST38h	Sts: Moblin looks like it	20:19
javispedro	yes.	20:19
Pavlov	X-Fade: for example, http://maemo.org/downloads/product/raw/Maemo5/conversations-inbox-widget/?get_installfile	20:19
RST38h	Sts: or like iPhone rather	20:19
wazd	I'm really surprised that apple really made it	20:19
Pavlov	X-Fade: it just comes down as text/html	20:19
Khertan	javispedro hehe not a problem	20:19
Pavlov	instead of application/x-install-instructions	20:19
Khertan	godwin point : http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2740/4308988357_56e6a45744_o.jpg	20:20
Khertan	haha	20:20
X-Fade	Pavlov: ****, that is a regression.	20:20
Khertan	ouch no keyboard	20:20
Khertan	haha	20:20
X-Fade	Pavlov: need to check what is up with that.	20:20
VDVsx	wazd, well they can sell anything :)	20:20
Khertan	n900 still better :)	20:20
* RST38h learned the lesson the hard way today: N900 really does not look all that much, all the useful, especially in comparison with other devices. UNTIL YOU TRY TO PART WITH IT.		20:20
Stskeeps	RST38h: heh	20:20
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RST38h	Then you suddenly find all those little things that you have done seamlessly with N900 and which now require Effort	20:21
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Lynoure	RST38h: What did you try to switch to?	20:21
RST38h	Lynoure: E71, E70	20:22
SpeedEvil	Is anyone aware of a strace-alike that can do ioctls?	20:22
RST38h	strace does not do ioctls?	20:22
SpeedEvil	Well - of course it does	20:22
Lynoure	After years with Palm OS, I'm having annoying droolies with Palm Pixi	20:22
Lynoure	But luckily it's not available in Europe.	20:22
wazd	http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0159-rm-eng.jpg	20:23
Khertan	Lynoure : for a dev it s too crappy	20:23
* RST38h tried the Pre in the US. Felt kinda fake.		20:23
hardaker	Lynoure: After years with Palm OS I'm finally happy with my N900 :-)	20:23
SpeedEvil	I mean that can print the results/calls of ioctls - at least in - say 'print 20 bytes after ioctl pointer'	20:23
wazd	itunes look like a first attenpt in photoshop	20:23
Khertan	Lynoure : can t dev onboard	20:23
Khertan	:)	20:23
wazd	attempt*	20:23
javispedro	SpeedEvil: last time I wished that I had to patch strace myself.	20:23
Khertan	like i was doing wth my palm tx	20:23
Lynoure	hardaker: I'm still missing a whole lot of apps I need... coding one of them, hoping others to rain from the heavens =)	20:23
RST38h	wazd: But....WHY STILL ONE BUTTON?	20:23
SpeedEvil	javispedro: meh.	20:23
Pavlov	X-Fade: ok, cool	20:23
SpeedEvil	javispedro: thanks.	20:23
VDVsx	cofth cofth,no flash :D	20:23
RST38h	The thing is huge, why only keep one button?	20:23
Pavlov	X-Fade: will make my life easier ;)	20:23
wazd	RST38h: I guess Ive hates hardware buttons :)	20:24
slonopotamus	~ping	20:24
infobot	~pong	20:24
RST38h	wazd: Or He is afraid someone will hack it by pressing buttons	20:24
Lynoure	But, now coding done for today, and off to movies.	20:24
javispedro	SpeedEvil: still I'm pretty sure I've come across an android dev blog post that published his patch, but google's in a bad mood today...	20:24
Khertan	a virtual keyboard this really sucks	20:24
hardaker	Lynoure: the only thing I truly miss from palm days was datebk	20:24
hardaker	my last phone, the 680, which is still sitting here next to me hasn't been turned on in a month and I don't even have the urge too	20:25
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javispedro	VDVsx: Jobs speaks: "Having Flash" is a disadvantage of netbooks.	20:25
villager	SpeedEvil: each ioctl is different... I suspect strace can already do that, but only for ioctls it know	20:25
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SpeedEvil	villager: I know it is.	20:25
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villager	SpeedEvil: so someone has to make strace know those ioctls...	20:26
SpeedEvil	villager: however - devolving to the generic - 'print 20 bytes after pointer in hex' wouldn't be impossible.	20:26
Khertan	Does there is some tips and trick for using pygame on n900, like using HWSURFACE only or something like that ?	20:26
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javispedro	Khertan: don't use HWSURFACE at all.	20:26
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luke-jr	iPad is such a joke :P	20:26
Khertan	ok ... did use it	20:26
* VDVsx predicts people suffering backache due to iPad usage		20:27
javispedro	tbh, it does nothing in rgb surfaces, only in the screen surface, at it won't do anything at all in non-paletted modes iirc.	20:27
Shadikka	Seriously, it's just a big iPhone.	20:27
Stskeeps	luke-jr: i am kinda disappointed in it	20:27
Shadikka	With a probability of 199%, running iPhone OS, making it neigh-useless for anything serious.	20:27
Stskeeps	at least they could have done something revolutionary	20:27
Khertan	vdvsx : but obviously ... will be surely a best seller	20:27
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joppu	They just could have put a real OS in to it	20:27
Khertan	joppu ? ple putting a real os ?	20:27
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javispedro	and you can even CHOOSE your own background!	20:28
joppu	I mean, they just took the iPhone OS and rearranged the UI layout	20:29
joppu	javispedro: That's what I call customization	20:29
Corsac	an iphone os in a laptop size, I would have expected the opposite	20:29
javispedro	"rearranged" lightly.	20:29
RST38h	javispedro: miracle! MIRACLE!	20:29
wazd	javispedro: that's the revolution	20:29
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luke-jr	frankly, iPad is even less capable than netbooks	20:29
wazd	javispedro: first time ever!	20:29
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javispedro	since they could have AT LEAST made the launcher icons _bigger_.	20:29
javispedro	but no.	20:29
joppu	luke-jr: but it runs _smoother_ nad that's the only thing that matters	20:30
luke-jr	LOL 1 GHz XD	20:30
Corsac	and it's apple	20:30
luke-jr	joppu: obviously that depends on software	20:30
luke-jr	Corsac: that's a minus	20:30
Stskeeps	"10 hours battery life	20:30
Corsac	which is really the only thing that matters eventually	20:30
javispedro	specs? where!	20:30
wazd	IPS display	20:30
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Corsac	no 3g	20:31
luke-jr	javispedro: http://live.gdgt.com/2010/01/27/live-apple-come-see-our-latest-creation-tablet-event-coverage/	20:31
wazd	1k+ price, anyone? :)	20:31
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joppu	luke-jr: iPhone only runs so smoothly because no multitasking	20:31
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red	joppu: wrong.	20:32
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javispedro	"Apple A4 chip"?	20:32
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joppu	red: How so?	20:32
\|R	yeah, wtf A4 chip	20:32
red	iPhone runs smoother cause 1) Smaller resolution 2) Better optimized animations	20:32
wazd	pixel doubling!	20:32
VDVsx	a compass really ? for what lol	20:32
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wazd	wow!	20:33
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Stskeeps	'10:32AM "We can also pixel double and run the apps full screen."	20:33
Stskeeps	....	20:33
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wazd	Stskeeps: revolution!	20:33
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villager	apple fanboys will still buy it, and become living examples of what makes humanity so horribly messed up	20:33
luke-jr	LOL	20:33
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\|R	so the resolution is 640x960 ?	20:33
red	Multitasking has little to do, since iPhone animation is fluent even while playing a mp3 and having browser tabs open in background (you can multitask on iPhone, but only on preselected software).	20:33
red	Now N900 scrolling and mp3 playing = mp3 skips every now and then	20:34
javispedro	red: that's the difference between real multitasking and walled garden multitasking.	20:34
zaheerm	that facebook app looks pointless, the browser facebook is nicer on it	20:34
javispedro	a 66Mhz Clie could also play Mp3 "on the background"	20:34
red	agree on that	20:34
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red	might be the resolution alone, might be the fact theres more processes running on background of the N900 nobody can know for certain	20:35
javispedro	(truth is that they had a special mp3 decoder and thus that's the reason it was the "only" app allowed to multitask)	20:35
javispedro	s/special/hardware	20:35
red	good for them, bad for us :)	20:35
joppu	N900 has the DSP?	20:36
red	im not trying to bash our lovely child here, just not trying to be fanboy either	20:36
GeneralAntilles	\|R, for 10"?!	20:36
X-Fade	Pavlov: Better now?	20:36
Stskeeps	joppu: it has dsp yes	20:36
\|R	GeneralAntilles: well no clue, but if they can pixel double (ie: 2x2 instead of 1x1) and you double the iPhone res :)	20:36
villager	I imagined the mp3 skipping on N900 was because of the slow eMMC (and swapping)?	20:36
javispedro	but it's not used for audio because someone decided the most common use case for listening to audio would be with the main CPU idle.	20:36
javispedro	(the dsp)	20:37
luke-jr	Apple is scared to announce RAM :p	20:37
Pavlov	X-Fade: checking	20:37
\|R	haha yeah, RAM and resolution	20:37
VDVsx	"all iPhones apps will run in the iPad"	20:37
Pavlov	X-Fade: looks like it	20:37
joppu	And the scaling will look horrible	20:37
Stskeeps	also, no 3g ;p	20:37
woglinde	VDVsx allother were nitemare	20:37
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javispedro	man, even palmos handled the resolution switch better.	20:38
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red	joppu: it doesn't really matter if it looks horrible. it means that when it comes out theres ton of software it can run, while software that the screensize is optimum are coming.	20:38
lardman	I wonder if our skipping is caused by cpufreq?	20:38
red	and expect really easy porting due the compatability too	20:38
joppu	480x320 on 1024x768 (?) urgh...	20:39
wazd	X-Fade: E: Couldn't find package hildon-theme-layout-5	20:39
wazd	X-Fade: wtf does that mean? :)	20:39
joppu	wazd: Yeah, it's broken currently	20:39
RST38h	luke: iPad has no "RAM". "RAM" is for geeks	20:39
X-Fade	wazd: Exactly as it says.	20:39
X-Fade	wazd: The SDK we run doesn't have that package.	20:40
wazd	X-Fade: ah	20:40
wazd	X-Fade: ok then :)	20:40
joppu	wazd: They downgraded the autobuilder or something	20:40
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javispedro	hm.. how can I make my N900 media player skip?	20:40
X-Fade	wazd: Will check tomorrow if we can go to update2, which has this package for you.	20:40
wazd	X-Fade: great news, thx a lot :)	20:40
glass_	the apple foleo	20:41
javispedro	oh, the foleo was better.	20:41
javispedro	it had xterm.	20:41
lardman	have Apple released their gadget then?	20:41
joppu	javispedro: open a lot of apps :)	20:41
RST38h	glass: iFoleo, of course	20:42
X-Fade	Stskeeps: update2 looks quite safe, only the gtk one worries me a bit.	20:42
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javispedro	4*3 apps and still no skipping..	20:42
lcuk	you gotta try harder than that!	20:43
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javispedro	this includes dosbox and drnok which I know they don't sleep when not active.	20:43
glass_	whats the price	20:43
Gadgetoid_mbp	iPad <3	20:43
javispedro	and dosbox consumes insame amounts of ram+swap	20:43
* javispedro looks to see if he got the headphones connected to the desktop instead of n900...		20:43
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lardman	hmm, that iThingie looks bloody big	20:45
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lardman	I'm thinking iDefinitelyWouldn'tWantOneCosIt'sTooLarge	20:45
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villager	it skipped for me when I walked home from the office, without anything running other than the media player, the skipping might have occurred when I got out of range of the wifi and it switched to gsm, or perhaps some powersave mode	20:45
dvoid	hail the ipedo	20:45
dvoid	or not	20:45
X-Fade	It's a netbook without keyboard ;)	20:45
luke-jr	lardman: I'm thinking it's just an Apple branded TouchBook	20:45
* lcuk has a 7inch maemo tablet (well, 2 3.5inchers but working collaboratively)		20:45
villager	s/gsm/gprs/	20:46
infobot	villager meant: it skipped for me when I walked home from the office, without anything running other than the media player, the skipping might have occurred when I got out of range of the wifi and it switched to gprs, or perhaps some powersave mode	20:46
hardaker	villager: I had it skip once when it switched the app from portrat to profile.	20:46
lardman	yeah, not very exciting	20:46
X-Fade	lcuk: you need 4 of those for that ;)	20:46
* tybollt slaps Gadgetoid_mbp hoping he will snap out of it ;)		20:46
javispedro	hildon-desktop is now hung. 23rd app, and media player didn't skip.	20:46
hardaker	I wondered if your walking jiggled the sensors	20:46
hardaker	ie, it wasn't the multitasking but the app itself	20:46
lcuk	X-Fade, i need 5 really to test properly	20:46
Gadgetoid_mbp	tybollt: not ruddy likely, I'm waiting for the price and where to buy one	20:46
tybollt	:D	20:46
lcuk	4 in a square 2*2 and then one controller	20:46
X-Fade	lcuk: Sorry, can't help you. I only have 3.	20:46
lcuk	but it scales nicely, so good to see undo working	20:46
lcuk	ive got 2.99 myself	20:47
tybollt	Gadgetoid_mbp: just coz ole man Jobs sez so or do you actually like the idea of a tablet like that?	20:47
lardman	dare I open TMO, how much time will it suck away....?	20:47
villager	hardaker: which sensors? shake2control wasn't in use	20:47
lcuk	ill just have to do like power rangers and combine them for higher power when together	20:47
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lcuk	i keep holding a pair like drumsticks	20:48
lcuk	and wanting the data on the third	20:48
villager	hardaker: since I wasn't running anything other than the media player, nothing should be checking any sensors	20:48
lcuk	now it will be able to :D	20:48
Gadgetoid_mbp	tybollt: yup	20:48
hardaker	does it switch between portrait and landscape when you rotate it?	20:48
villager	hardaker: I don't think so	20:49
villager	with a locked screen even more unlikely	20:49
hardaker	hmm... you know, I think I was listening to an audio book in a different app.	20:50
hardaker	it was what switched, not media player.	20:50
* javispedro gets a watchdog reboot		20:50
villager	nope, it won't rotate... I've never enabled rotation anywhere anyway, I never wanted it	20:50
hardaker	(since I tried it and it doesn't rotate)	20:50
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javispedro	at around 25 windows (24 apps)	20:50
villager	maybe except in the phone app I suppose	20:50
Gadgetoid_mbp	tybollt: in fact, I want 2!	20:51
\|R	still no ram / res. / price... and no front cam, wait wha?	20:51
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RST38h	"iPad has no kickstand!" -- Gizmodo	20:51
Stskeeps	heh	20:51
Stskeeps	500$ accesory	20:52
luke-jr	so any speculation on if A4 is Intel or ARM?	20:52
RST38h	does it support mms? =)	20:52
javispedro	luke-jr: ARM	20:52
joppu	They can unveil a whole new line of "docks" now :D	20:52
RST38h	ARM	20:52
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luke-jr	RST38h: it doesn't support cell phone at all	20:52
javispedro	luke-jr: it runs iphone arms	20:52
javispedro	s/arms/apps	20:52
RST38h	luke: really? just like n800? =)	20:52
tybollt	ARM of course	20:52
luke-jr	javispedro: are iPhone apps natively compiled? O.o	20:52
javispedro	luke-jr: yep	20:53
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tybollt	what other cpu can you buy and mod to your liking?	20:53
VDVsx	Stskeeps, probably more ;)	20:53
lcuk	ok screw all this appleness, can maemo run on any multitouch large format tablets?	20:53
luke-jr	tybollt: PowerPC, SPARC, and MIPS?	20:53
RST38h	they bought a cpu company	20:53
luke-jr	lcuk: TouchBook?	20:53
tybollt	luke-jr: hush you =)	20:53
joppu	lcuk: Harmattan...?	20:53
tybollt	RST38h: orly? didnt know	20:53
RST38h	lcuk: I just noticed.	20:53
* lardman emerges from TMO having learned nothing much new		20:53
derf	That sounds normal.	20:54
lardman	yep	20:54
javispedro	lardman: well I learned something today; that there seems to be no actual failsafes for when you lock the n900 at 600Mhz.	20:54
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lardman	oh, have you cooked yours?	20:54
lcuk	luke-jr, can maemo run on it?	20:55
lcuk	joppu, that wasnt the question	20:55
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javispedro	no, but it will happily go at 600Mhz for hours	20:55
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RST38h	lcuk: You look like DrWho played by David Tennant	20:55
tybollt	javispedro: ? "lock the n900 at 600Mhz." the hell does that mean?	20:55
* RST38h promptly hides		20:55
joppu	tybollt: the clock speed	20:55
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tybollt	ja?	20:55
tybollt	can you alter the clock speed?	20:55
RST38h	yes	20:56
joppu	yeah	20:56
nomike	hi	20:56
* lcuk raises eyebrows @ RST38h		20:56
* lcuk mourns david tennant		20:56
tybollt	oh dear, how's that? I looked for "press F1 to enter bios" but really, the thing doesn't even have a POST ;)	20:56
* belsatsar mourns Juergen Moellemann		20:56
javispedro	"iBooks" -- now including ripped off bookshelf art!	20:57
RST38h	cooool	20:57
VDVsx	lol	20:57
nomike	i'm using a nokia 770 with OS2008HE. Does the built in Mail Client support IMAP subfolders?	20:57
luke-jr	lcuk: of course not	20:58
luke-jr	lcuk: Maemo is proprietary :P	20:58
VDVsx	with iBooks number of apps in apple store have to go down to 60k-70k :D ohhhh	20:58
GeneralAntilles	Seriously, iBooks? . . .	20:59
* GeneralAntilles pictures lots of laptops filling the iPad.		20:59
javispedro	only apple could do _yet again_ the book reader application with bookshelf paradigm again and get away with it	20:59
lcuk	i thought the ipad was a sanitary product	20:59
VDVsx	ehhehe	21:00
Myrtti	lcuk: it does need iWings	21:00
RST38h	it is	21:00
lcuk	well top results in google video indicate as such	21:00
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javispedro	"iWork for the iPad" (aka Pocket Office)	21:01
RST38h	without keyboard?	21:01
javispedro	oh, they use ePub file format!	21:01
javispedro	wow	21:01
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javispedro	hell freezing over and all that.	21:02
VDVsx	only landscape, take that :p	21:02
RST38h	javis: no iPub?	21:02
javispedro	ePub! Even FBReader is capable of opening it.	21:02
RST38h	unless it is drmed of course	21:02
joppu	I guess after 10 years of failing the tablet PCs will become mainstream just because Steve Jobs held one of them in his hand	21:03
javispedro	there's no actual ePub DRM standard iirc	21:03
javispedro	No 3G. Less space than a Netbook. Lame.	21:04
ml-mobile	mmm, more closed hardware platforms from Apple	21:04
* RST38h mentally goes over a list of objects he would like Steve Jobs to hold in his hand		21:04
luke-jr	ml-mobile: you say that as if there's an open platform in this market?	21:04
joppu	And oh, can you actually read ebooks with a LCD display? Kindles, etc. have eInk ones	21:04
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RST38h	Gizmodo went into iPad hysteria already	21:05
tybollt	engadget too	21:05
* VDVsx sends a N900 to steve :D		21:05
belsatsar	tools of tyranny	21:05
javispedro	tmo too.	21:05
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RST38h	javispedro: looks like it does not scale iPhone apps all that much	21:05
ml-mobile	luke-jr: the N900 is the only one going in the right direction, and miles more open than anything else	21:06
belsatsar	ml-mobile: ++	21:06
RST38h	they look like a little square in the middle of a black screen	21:06
tybollt	tmo?	21:06
lcuk	question, how come holding device like this didnt accidentally run apps http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/01/27/article-1246551-080C4654000005DC-611_468x597.jpg	21:06
luke-jr	ml-mobile: dunno, tmzt seems to have got much Qualcomm supported	21:06
javispedro	RST38h: Jobs actually mentioned "pixel doubling"	21:06
ml-mobile	what is tmzt?	21:06
javispedro	jobs or some of his minions	21:06
VDVsx	RST38h, they need to rebuild it seems	21:06
luke-jr	ml-mobile: tmzt is a person	21:06
joppu	javispedro: yeah :D	21:06
luke-jr	ml-mobile: and unlike TI, Qualcomm's got nice dual-core 1.5 GHz Snapdragons.... <.<	21:06
* timeless_mbp cries		21:07
* timeless_mbp messed up		21:07
luke-jr	not to mention all the phones/handhelds with over 256 MB RAM	21:07
lcuk	timeless, happens to us all	21:07
tybollt	timeless_mbp: ?	21:07
RST38h	VDVsx: ah!	21:07
VDVsx	RST38h, "We rewrote all of our apps for this display. the iPhone SDK supports development for this now... and we're releasing it today."	21:07
timeless_mbp	tybollt: i'm maintaining enus and engb	21:07
ml-mobile	that's just newer hardware, has nothing to do with openness	21:07
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VDVsx	dunno what that means	21:07
timeless_mbp	i made a set of changes for enus, managed them as a changeset	21:07
timeless_mbp	applied them to engb	21:07
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luke-jr	ml-mobile: tmzt's work has to do with openness :)	21:08
timeless_mbp	but forgot to refresh the changeset to include the engb files	21:08
javispedro	X-Fade: btw, did you see http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/diablo_extras-devel_free_armel/openttd-data/0.7.4-1maemo3/ ?	21:08
timeless_mbp	then i pushed my changesets and built them	21:08
RST38h	Interesting how nobody has mentioned the most interesting question so far	21:08
dpro	hi	21:08
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timeless_mbp	it happens to me often	21:08
javispedro	RST38h: THE PRICE?	21:08
Stskeeps	RST38h: 'does it run android'?	21:08
RST38h	With iPad out, every Chinese manufacturer will try to catchup. And Nokia too.	21:08
lcuk	timeless, thats like developers forgetting to update changelogs and stuff	21:08
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ml-mobile	luke-jr: great, but only the N900 is available via retail :)	21:08
timeless_mbp	roughly, yes	21:08
RST38h	This means 1) Android on really huge screens and 2) N9?0 that looks like a slate again ;	21:08
VDVsx	there's android tablets already	21:08
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, hey, maybe it means Maemo will get some progress back into its past. ;)	21:09
javispedro	"Will our N900 be able to upgrade to MaemoPad"	21:09
RST38h	VDVsx: Yes, but Apple sets the standard. Now they will alll strive to look like iPad	21:09
lcuk	timeless, and some are more regular at that, how long does it take to rebuild?	21:09
javispedro	(hm.. MaemoPad+...)	21:09
VDVsx	RST38h, true	21:09
timeless_mbp	lcuk: <5mins	21:09
timeless_mbp	it's more that it's such a stupid thing	21:09
lcuk	not a problem then, just frustration no douby	21:09
lcuk	yeah lol	21:09
luke-jr	ml-mobile: I can wait.	21:09
RST38h	General: Well, judging from how Nokia always plaued catchup before, I almost do not doubt	21:09
dpro	looks like I need to roll my own kernel for the n900 .. any pitfalls I should be aware of to avoid bricking the thing ?	21:09
RST38h	The MaemoPad author is up for some nice royalties for selling rights to the name back to Nokia ;)	21:10
Stskeeps	dpro: don't overclock it	21:10
Stskeeps	:P	21:10
lcuk	i look over my git commits and realise i have a habit of commiting new changes and logging them, but forgetting to actually add the new files to git	21:10
lcuk	i kick myself everytime	21:10
timeless_mbp	dpro: why do you need your own kernel?	21:10
RST38h	lcuk: Same for everybody	21:10
javispedro	RST38h: the original maemopad was made by nokia iirc?	21:10
luke-jr	lcuk: how do you manage that? O.o	21:10
RST38h	lcuk: You ain't any special in this sense	21:10
javispedro	maemopad+ is the third party app.	21:10
luke-jr	RST38h: he isn't?	21:11
RST38h	javispedro: Really? So they have got rights to the name l)	21:11
dpro	timelell_mbp: I need realtime scheduling and a higher timer resolution	21:11
lcuk	no RST38h i was singing with timeless's cat wail about something similar	21:11
luke-jr	with git you need to add even changed files, so I don't get how you can forget to add the ones you just made...	21:11
RST38h	urgh	21:11
lcuk	luke-jr, no you dont	21:11
lcuk	its very easy to leave files out	21:11
lcuk	and you dont need to explicitly mention every changed file	21:12
luke-jr	lcuk: unless you use commit -a, you do	21:12
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VDVsx	OMG a context keyboard 0_0 numeric keyboard will show up in numeric fields, lol	21:12
* lcuk looks on his wall		21:12
lcuk	"git commit -a -m "~~~~~"	21:12
lcuk	yup	21:12
lcuk	looks like i do	21:12
luke-jr	lcuk: that's the problem :P	21:12
* luke-jr finds git's index system very convenient		21:12
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javispedro	so this is apple's target	21:13
javispedro	ipad+iwork	21:13
tank-man	... No 3G, less buttons than a Kindle, Lame	21:13
lcuk	i want some iscream	21:13
lcuk	ive heard enough im goin playing with liqbase for a bit	21:13
javispedro	iBase	21:13
javispedro	"iLiq" sounds better.	21:13
dpro	what gcc flags are you guys using ? I used sth. along the lines of '-fPIC', '-mtune=cortex-a8', '-march=armv7-a', '-ftree-vectorize', '-mfpu=neon', '-mfloat-abi=softfp', '-ffast-math', '-fomit-frame-pointer', '-O3', '-fun	21:13
dpro	roll-loops' but that didn't make a difference	21:13
lcuk	imnotforsale	21:13
zash	ifrisbee	21:13
wiretapped	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs MadTV on the iPad	21:14
zash	wiretapped: that better be a rickroll	21:14
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javispedro	dpro: tune, arch are already on the specs so they have no effect. -tree-vectorize is already implicit with -o3 so it has no effect. -neon only does floats and uses softfp for doubles.	21:14
wiretapped	no it is an actual MadTV skit about the iPad	21:14
VDVsx	there's a model with 3g	21:14
javispedro	dpro: so basically you're only adding "-o3".	21:15
Shrik3	tank-man: umm, they just announced 3G =)	21:15
Stskeeps	ah, some models with 3g	21:15
* wiretapped was at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple-tablet-san-francisco-launch		21:15
Shrik3	$30/mo for unlimited	21:15
javispedro	dpro: which is not recommended, specially on a platform where memory bandwidth is limited.	21:15
belsatsar	how is tor on n900	21:15
tank-man	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs madtv iPad (2007 skit)	21:16
dpro	javispedro: so anything I can do to speed up floating point operations further with a gcc switch ?	21:16
RST38h	iSatan	21:16
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timeless_mbp	belsatsar: i wouldn't recommend hosting a tor exit point :)	21:16
javispedro	dpro: benchmark "no flags" (aka vfp), softfp and neon. use floats instead of doubles.	21:16
belsatsar	i'm wondering if i should be doing anythign else	21:16
* RST38h cannot believe Neon cannot do doubles. Really?		21:16
timeless_mbp	"don't worry, you'll be followed anyway"	21:16
ph1l	somebody asked me about what files get accessed by which program, on which parition... who was that again?	21:17
dpro	javispedro: floats instead of doubles are not an option I'm afraid, too much work	21:17
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timeless_mbp	ph1l: lsof is the answer..	21:17
tybollt	zap: branningan	21:17
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javispedro	dpro: then benchmark vfp vs softfp I guess...	21:18
ph1l	timeless_mbp: sadly it's not... how you wanna monitor the boot process with lsof?	21:18
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VDVsx	"micro SIMs" new tech ?	21:18
timeless_mbp	ph1l: you just instrument the boot scripts...	21:18
javispedro	dpro: (aka remove -mfpu=neon flag)	21:18
zap	tybollt: branningan is your uncle?	21:18
Stskeeps	ah	21:19
timeless_mbp	ph1l: or use strace -ff	21:19
Stskeeps	500$ and up	21:19
timeless_mbp	whichever	21:19
dpro	javispedro: will do, WTF is the matter with the repository .. I need the kernel source	21:19
javispedro	RST38h: it doesn't do doubles. tbh I don't have the instruction set, but gcc doesn't seem to generate code for doubles.	21:19
ph1l	timeless_mbp: lsof just make snapshots at a given time... no continious monitoring...	21:19
timeless_mbp	either way the tools are trivially available	21:19
luke-jr	ROFL	21:19
Stskeeps	oh dear	21:19
VDVsx	very cheap	21:19
VDVsx	lol	21:19
Stskeeps	wifi only: 16gb for 499, 32gb for 599, 699 for 64gb	21:20
javispedro	O.o	21:20
RST38h	But it is shiny!	21:20
ph1l	timeless_mbp: so do you know when the /home will get's accessed for the first time and when?	21:20
RST38h	Shiny things cost $$$	21:20
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javispedro	<rumor>3g model: 16gb for 1499 ;)</rumor>	21:20
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timeless_mbp	ph1l: just use strace -ff from something early	21:20
VDVsx	$829 3g+64GB	21:20
luke-jr	LOLOL	21:20
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RST38h	it has got Google Maps. What do you mean by "no 3G"? =)	21:21
ph1l	timeless_mbp: i'm just playing around with "audit" resp. auditd, maybe this will shed some light	21:21
* timeless_mbp goes back to reinventing 'diff'		21:21
VDVsx	where comes the keyboard	21:22
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RST38h	Funny: Oct2009ers created a tmo thread to replace Extras promotion process	21:23
VDVsx	RST38h, link please :)	21:23
RST38h	I.e. instead of voting at maemo.org, they post lists of Testing/Devel apps that "work for them"	21:23
VDVsx	lol	21:23
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b0unc3	hello	21:25
javispedro	RST38h: everybody wants to reinvent the process	21:25
luke-jr	so to summarize, iPad = 2 year old tech at 2 times the price	21:25
javispedro	RST38h: I just got a mail from someone who wants to create "their own repo" for "translated packages".	21:25
b0unc3	someone know hot to use the gtk_label_set_markup() on maemo ?	21:25
RST38h	javispedro creating policies gives satisfaction without having to do work	21:26
b0unc3	how*	21:27
javispedro	interesting	21:27
javispedro	gcc issues neon load instructions then does the vfp instruction	21:27
javispedro	I guess the vfp and neon registers overlap?	21:27
Shrik3	luke-jr: and the resistive non-multitouch touchscreen on the N900 is how old tech now?-)	21:28
RST38h	VDVsx, javispedro: Here it is, enjoy: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42358	21:28
luke-jr	Shrik3: better than capacitive?	21:29
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javispedro	Shrik3: resistive non-multitouch is old tech how? resistive multitouch has only recently come the public mind	21:29
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Shrik3	I remember using resistive single touch on my Palm m100 a decade ago	21:31
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VDVsx	RST38h, there's a couple of similar threads there	21:31
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b0unc3	which version of gtk (exactly) we have on maemo5 ?	21:37
konttori	what's optimal -vo for mplayer on n900? how about -ao?	21:37
konttori	-ao alsa seems to get out of sync in flv files	21:38
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Goliath23	hi	21:38
Goliath23	just got my N900 today	21:38
koala_man	konttori: make sure framedrop is enabled	21:38
javispedro	hm.. pupnik said -ao alsa got perfect sound	21:38
slonopotamus	b0unc3, 2-nokia-patchlevel-over-9000-maemo1	21:38
Stskeeps	Goliath23: congratulations!	21:38
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Goliath23	cool thing, works great!	21:38
* timeless_mbp frowns		21:38
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timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: if i want to get libalgorithm-diff-perl for maemo5	21:38
timeless_mbp	where upstream do i grab?	21:38
Goliath23	next I try syncevolution to sync the N900 with a Horde Groupware server	21:39
* timeless_mbp wonders if there's a table that says "maemo x ~ debian y"		21:39
konttori	koala_man: thanks. WIll test that now.	21:39
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slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, such thing can't exist because they have different set of patches.	21:39
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: err	21:40
timeless_mbp	which version of debian is closest?	21:40
timeless_mbp	i'm going to grab a sourceball and build it	21:40
Stskeeps	etch or the one before	21:40
timeless_mbp	but i need to know which	21:40
javispedro	sarge.	21:40
timeless_mbp	http://packages.debian.org/etch/libalgorithm-diff-perl ?	21:40
javispedro	though I'd try getting the latest and reducing debcompat level.	21:41
Goliath23	I guess Ove Kaaven is not here right now? :)	21:41
lardman	b0unc3: apt-cache search gtk?	21:41
lardman	btw anyone tried Octave on Fremantle?	21:42
* timeless_mbp ponders		21:42
timeless_mbp	it doesn't seem to have any patches	21:42
b0unc3	lardman, this doesn't give the version ... I've used dpkg -l instead	21:43
dpro	I tried building stuff from lenny works ok so far	21:43
lardman	ok, as long as you've found out	21:43
timeless_mbp	http://packages.debian.org/source/etch/libalgorithm-diff-perl	21:43
timeless_mbp	it wants debhelper 4	21:43
Stskeeps	that's good	21:43
Stskeeps	5 is ~fremante	21:43
timeless_mbp	and perl >= 5.6.0-16	21:43
timeless_mbp	that's probably a problem	21:43
timeless_mbp	we only have perl-base, right?	21:44
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red	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=498136 - Dropbox for N900?	22:17
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elian_m	hey guys, is this http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_localization the only place to know more about localization?	22:20
elian_m	I'm trying to understand where to begin to translate UI in my language	22:20
elian_m	if that's possible, of course	22:21
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\|R	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eF0y0IfpPU	22:26
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* timeless_mbp kicks elian_m for asking and running		22:29
timeless_mbp	so...	22:30
timeless_mbp	about perl	22:30
timeless_mbp	debian seems to install stuff to /usr/share/perl5	22:30
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sp3000	("about perl" -- this is asking, and others running :P)	22:30
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* sp3000 runs		22:31
timeless_mbp	but @INC has /usr/share/perl/5.8	22:31
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Quibus	hi all	22:31
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Quibus	is there a tutorial or guide on how to transform Debian packages to Maemo packages?	22:31
red	What would it basicly take to port a python based opensource application to Maemo 5 (Dropbox for example) ?	22:31
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nezb	ipad!	22:32
nezb	N900 > iPad for sure	22:32
* timeless_mbp wtf's		22:32
Stskeeps	yes, but does it dualboot android	22:32
Stskeeps	:P	22:32
nezb	neither of them do :P	22:32
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps / sp3000 : this doesn't make sense	22:32
lizardo	red: (1) check if all dependencies are already there (2) run , test , package and upload the application to extras-devel :)	22:32
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: scratchbox SDK fun or device?	22:33
timeless_mbp	i have python-centra providing /usr/share/perl5/Debian	22:33
timeless_mbp	device	22:33
villager	Goliath23: what?	22:33
timeless_mbp	netbase providing /usr/share/perl5/DebianNet.pm	22:33
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timeless_mbp	and dpkg providing /usr/share/perl5/Dpkg{,.pm}	22:33
baraujo	red, if you're lucky, just get the source and try to build it inside scratchbox... if all dependencies are there and your package builds correctly, you're set :)	22:33
timeless_mbp	but perl claims it doesn't look there!	22:33
Goliath23	villager: what what?	22:33
villager	Goliath23: you mentioned my name	22:33
red	alright	22:34
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timeless_mbp	ok, no	22:35
timeless_mbp	i just can't read	22:35
timeless_mbp	but i have this file	22:35
timeless_mbp	ok user error :)	22:35
timeless_mbp	Alorithm != Algorithm	22:35
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Goliath23	villager: ovek?	22:35
Goliath23	villager: I just trying your syncevolution port on fremantly and try to sync with a horde server	22:36
villager	Goliath23: okay	22:36
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Goliath23	since horde is not listed as server, I chose funambol and go from there with fiddling around with the config files.	22:37
Goliath23	currently it fails with [ERROR] addressbook: opening address book: Cannot open book	22:37
SpeedEvil	Would anyone else like the toolbar to be visible in the app-switcher?	22:37
Stskeeps	evening RevdKathy	22:37
RevdKathy	evening Stskeeps, evening all	22:37
Goliath23	villager: If I get it to work I'd gladly contribute to the maemo wiki page and the horde sync page	22:37
RevdKathy	just popping in for half an hour celebrating being up to date withh all my transcription	22:37
RevdKathy	what's new?	22:38
villager	Goliath23: hmm	22:38
Goliath23	and btw. THANKS for porting that thing and writing the backend. it was the one reason why I wouldn't buy the n900. now I have it :)	22:38
villager	Goliath23: did you do anything to the addressbook config file then?	22:39
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frals	evening RevdKathy	22:39
Goliath23	I set uri = contact .. didn't work. nothing else so far	22:40
RevdKathy	evening frals - hows the mmsing going?	22:40
* lcuk waves @ kathy before realising hes meant to be in the bath		22:40
frals	standing still atm, overwhelmed by uni projects and labs	22:40
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villager	Goliath23: ok, according to http://syncevolution.org/documentation/compatibility you should have uri = contacts	22:40
villager	Goliath23: however, I have no experience with horde	22:41
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Goliath23	dosn't work either. I recheck the settings	22:42
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Quibus	Do you recommend mud-builder for this? (Transform Debian package into Maemo package.)	22:42
Goliath23	I had that url bookmarked as well, but forgot about it ..	22:42
villager	Goliath23: you didn't mess with evolutionsource?	22:42
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Goliath23	villager: no, it's commented out	22:43
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villager	Goliath23: weird then... I think that message means that libebook could not connect to the system addressbook, not sure why that would happen	22:44
villager	Goliath23: if you just run syncevolution without parameters, what sources does it list?	22:44
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Goliath23	hold on	22:45
jeez_	when I add stuff (shortcuts, widgets, etc) to my "desktop" on the N900 where are the position of the icons stored? I mean, is there a config file for this?	22:45
jeez_	which says what is there and in which position ?	22:45
RST38h	client_id:s60Maps3.0	22:46
RST38h	voice_mode:Viking	22:46
RST38h	This is what Maemo5 Ovi Maps say =)	22:46
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Goliath23	villager: http://pastebin.ca/1768460	22:46
villager	Goliath23: don't run syncevolution as root	22:46
Goliath23	ups, okay	22:47
javispedro	that viking must be mute...	22:47
Goliath23	do I have to delete the config files now, or is it okay if they belong to root?	22:47
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RST38h	javis: you really want him to scream SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! at each intersection? =)	22:47
Goliath23	ah, never mind. different directories anyway	22:47
villager	Goliath23: they should belong to your user (and be in /home/user/.config), not to root	22:47
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RST38h	javis: Any guesses what MyDocs/.volbak is?	22:48
matan	jeez_: In gconf	22:48
Goliath23	villager: can I syncevolution --configure funambol ... but name the configuration to e.g. horde?	22:48
javispedro	RST38h: "SPAM!" is at least better than "you're way over the speed limit! yes you are!"	22:48
villager	Goliath23: yes... --configure --template funambol horde	22:48
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Goliath23	cool.	22:49
javispedro	RST38h: nope. i don't remember seeing that in libhildon-fm so some app will have that hardcoded, you can grep.	22:49
RST38h	javis: "The top speed of your guardian angel is 65mph"	22:49
villager	Goliath23: should also work to just mv the directory later	22:49
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RST38h	javis: It looks vaguely like having something to do with gst	22:50
javispedro	full-text search in mxr says nothing..	22:50
Goliath23	http://pastebin.ca/1768472	22:51
Goliath23	now it seems to work. but it detects no diffs at all	22:51
Goliath23	checking the html report file...	22:52
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villager	Goliath23: well it says "unsuccessfully", so probably some configuration needed	22:52
RevdKathy	frals: some silly peeps started a new thread. In case you missd it, it's here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=498193#post498193	22:53
Goliath23	any hint in what part?	22:53
frals	RevdKathy: cheers.. Don't understand why people don't search for the fmms thread before posting :P	22:53
villager	Goliath23: not really, I don't know anything about horde... guess you have to look in the log file, if you can stomach it... or ask someone who has used syncevolution with horde	22:54
Goliath23	villager: btw. I successfully synced to that horde installation using the S60 syncml client of the N73 ... the syncml sources of the horde installation are pretty up-to date as well)	22:54
Goliath23	sure, looking at the logfile...	22:54
Goliath23	will do	22:54
RevdKathy	frals: Lord only knows. They think they'll get more notice in a new threadin the wrong forum?? It makes the feel important??	22:54
frals	never wouldve seen that thread had you not linked it to me :D	22:55
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javispedro	RST38h: hit in "/usr/bin/volume_backup"	22:56
Goliath23	villager: in case you want to take a look	22:56
Goliath23	http://pastebin.ca/1768478	22:56
javispedro	package "maemo-statusmenu-volume"	22:56
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javispedro	I have to wonder what the " status menu plugin for sound volume slider" has to do with $MYDOCSDIR/.volbak	22:58
RevdKathy	Case of "My problem is different (cos it's mine) and Unique (cos it's mine) so I must start a New Thread to make it stand out and be noticeable". But maybe I'm just being jaded :p	22:58
Goliath23	villager: abort with status 20007 (LOCAL problem) ?	22:58
frals	RevdKathy: :)	22:58
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* frals goes back to wrestling with java.util.concurrent.*;		22:58
Goliath23	villager: I'll change the authentication settings first as described in the compatibility url	22:58
RevdKathy	Wnt me to notify on that and ask for a merge/	22:58
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frals	sure, i've posted and linked to the correct thread there anyway	22:59
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Quibus	wow, I need to do apt-get -f install and that gives me 300MB+ of used diskspace	23:00
Quibus	Did I do something wrong?	23:00
Quibus	(Talking about Scratchbox)	23:00
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RevdKathy	frals - I've notified. SJGadsby is around and moving hings, so I'm sure he will :)	23:00
villager	Goliath23: SML_ERR_XLT_INVALID_CODEPAGE 0x2011 /*< WBXML document uses unspecified code page /	23:02
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RevdKathy	Right time for my beauty sleep. Another long day tomorrow	23:04
RevdKathy	G'night all!	23:04
konttori	javispedro: so, you had used mplayer.	23:04
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konttori	is -ao pulse the fastest option?	23:04
Goliath23	villager: I'll enable horde's debug logs...	23:04
konttori	and do you know what is the best -vo option?	23:04
villager	Goliath23: is wbxml still turned off in your config?	23:04
javispedro	konttori: actually I don't -- I know pupnik uses it.	23:05
Goliath23	villager: name of the setting?	23:05
konttori	ah, hmm...	23:05
Goliath23	villager: oh, yes, seems so	23:05
konttori	I'm getting all the time audio out of sync	23:05
Quibus	Can someone help me please? I now get an error running apt-get update in Scratchbox: W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory'	23:05
Goliath23	villager: it's 0 .. guess it must be 1	23:05
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javispedro	though my wild guess is the usual "-ao alsa -vo xv".	23:05
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villager	Goliath23: dunno	23:06
Quibus	omg, things are getting worse	23:06
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Matthew-	fr33functional	23:06
Quibus	help: /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory	23:06
villager	Quibus: all of those messages are normal	23:07
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konttori	javispedro: alsa seems to be by default, and pulse seems to consume less cpu than alsa	23:08
Goliath23	villager: it does something now...	23:09
javispedro	pulse will consume less cpu than alsa in mplayer process	23:09
javispedro	konttori^^	23:09
javispedro	or do you mean total cpu usage already?	23:09
konttori	total cpu	23:09
konttori	it's a feels-like type of comment	23:09
konttori	I didn't measure it	23:10
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konttori	I'm trying even -autosync 30, and still content is out of sync	23:10
Quibus	villager: it doesn't look normal that I can't install packages in scratchbox	23:10
villager	Goliath23: wbxml is turned off by default in the funambol template... no other templates turn it off to my knowledge	23:10
Quibus	it also says: package architecture (i386) does not match system ()	23:10
javispedro	hope mplayer it's optified	23:10
Quibus	sounds like I misconfigured something	23:10
villager	Quibus: mismatched architecture? yeah that could be a problem	23:11
Quibus	villager: how do I fix it? I'm trying to build packages with mud-build	23:11
Quibus	I suppose I should do that on the ARMEL env	23:11
konttori	I think it must be something else than the audio drivers and video drivers. video runs fine, and even if I pause, and resume, audio is not in sync	23:11
villager	Quibus: dunno, not sure what you did, and I haven't had such issues	23:11
Quibus	villager: maybe I did something wrong with sb-menu	23:12
lcuk	konttori, RST38h was talking about alsa taking a lot of cpu for not much purpose	23:12
ShadowJK	hm, I can't connect to wlan :/	23:12
Quibus	villager: I tried to set it upa gain after I got complaints about SBOX_CPU_TRANSPARENCY not set	23:12
* ShadowJK tried unloading and reloading the wireless kernel module, that worked before but not this time		23:12
lcuk	perhaps its just the pipeline length	23:12
* ShadowJK ponders how to get it fixed this time :(		23:12
* javispedro records some DVB-T and exports via NFS... let's see if the N900 can do handle it.		23:13
konttori	yeah, qt4.6 guys were complaining same on phonon on alsa. And then converted to pulseaudio	23:14
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konttori	(with exact audio rate of 48khz if I remember correctly)	23:15
villager	Quibus: I guess you didn't get it right then... but I'm not an expert on that, I just use the mess and try not to mess it up too much	23:15
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javispedro	using alsa directly on n900 is a nogo either way, since pa will open the device (not via dmix layer)	23:15
Quibus	villager: that was also my plan, until it stopped working	23:15
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javispedro	[AO_ALSA] Trying to reset soundcard. lol	23:16
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konttori	hmm... of course all videos I'm checking are h264, but still	23:17
konttori	anyway. night!	23:17
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javispedro	nite konttori, i'm watching dvb-t/mpeg2 and seems fine for now.	23:18
Goliath23	villager: http://www.vidsolbach.de/tmp/sysynclib_linux.html	23:18
javispedro	na, it desynced already.	23:18
Goliath23	villager: i tried a slow sync on the addressbook. it seems okay, but the item's don't show up in horde (i deleted all entries in horde before=	23:18
villager	Goliath23: that url seems not to work	23:19
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Quibus	Can someone please help?? I'm getting stuck and desperate	23:19
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javispedro	"-hardframedrop"	23:20
Goliath23	villager: sry. now its there	23:20
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javispedro	"-cache 8192 -hardframedrop" seems to work fine.	23:21
javispedro	(cache since I'm using NFS)	23:22
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villager	Goliath23: must be something server-side this time	23:23
javispedro	-ao alsa is a bit faster here. (native rate)	23:24
Quibus	I'm trying to install (get the svn sources of) mud-builder and I'm getting an svn error... 301 moved permanently. Has it moved? Where to?	23:24
villager	Goliath23: perhaps the horde server still remembers the entries you deleted	23:24
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ShadowJK	-mc 30 too	23:24
javispedro	erm.	23:24
javispedro	-ao alsa is actually using pulseaudio	23:25
javispedro	noted because the volume control actually works	23:25
Goliath23	villager: horde writes: Error in adding client entry: Ungültiges Adressbuch: localsql	23:25
Goliath23	villager: Ungültiges Adressbuch	23:25
Goliath23	villager: is invalid adressbook...	23:25
ShadowJK	DVB-T streams are often brpadcast with a huge desync for the player to compensate, but MPlayer,s defaults are better at fixing small gradual desyncs	23:25
ShadowJK	Alsa's default device is the pulse plugin, yes	23:25
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ShadowJK	with MPlayer: -ao alsa:device=hw=0.0	23:26
javispedro	ah, this explains the shitload of error messages.	23:26
ShadowJK	it was either device or dev, i foreget	23:26
javispedro	device iirc	23:26
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villager	Goliath23: well, "localsql" is probably not coming from syncevolution...	23:27
Goliath23	villager: nope, I found something http://lists.horde.org/archives/sync/Week-of-Mon-20080114/001708.html	23:28
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ShadowJK	grrrrrrrrr @ wlan	23:29
ShadowJK	work, danmn you	23:29
Quibus	Should or should I not use mud-builder?	23:29
Quibus	I just noticed 2007 on that page	23:29
RST38h	Stskeeps: You will laugh but yes, kickstand is an accessory	23:30
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ShadowJK	N900 needs a hardware switch controlled by a gpio to powercycle the wlan, like on smartq :(	23:30
Stskeeps	RST38h: heh	23:30
Quibus	People, I'm trying to create packages for Maemo, but I need help... and I'm getting completely frustrated.... :S	23:30
RST38h	automake?	23:30
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: accellerometer + screaming detector	23:30
ShadowJK	that's UI	23:31
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ShadowJK	you need the hw capability to powercycle wifi too	23:32
slonopotamus	err... aigo m500? with maemo?	23:34
slonopotamus	s/m500/n500/	23:34
infobot	slonopotamus meant: err... aigo n500? with maemo?	23:34
Goliath23	villager: step by step. there was something wrong in horde. I guess an update problem. the default adressbook wasn't set	23:35
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slonopotamus	http://www.pocketables.net/2010/01/aigo-launches-feature-packed-n500-maemo-mid.html what's that?	23:36
RST38h	http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tuaw.com/media/2010/01/090413_jobs_tablet2.jpg	23:36
slonopotamus	second non-nokia maemo device??? what was the first?	23:36
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Stskeeps	actually third	23:37
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slonopotamus	Stskeeps, that link says second :)	23:37
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: someone didn't count properly	23:38
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timeless_mbp	there were iirc 2 chinese devices	23:38
timeless_mbp	one was a supersized device	23:38
timeless_mbp	and one was a phone	23:38
slonopotamus	and this one has 128mb ram :/	23:39
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timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: this one has a shiny dialer ui	23:39
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Goliath23	villager: contacts work now in both ways! great! :)	23:39
Goliath23	villager: next is calendar. the summary says 108KB received. but there are no new entries on the phone (the phone's calendar has one entry, the horde calendar has a bunch!"	23:40
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villager	Goliath23: try to force a slow sync then	23:41
Goliath23	villager: same result (did that)	23:41
Goliath23	villager: rcycle wifi too	23:42
Quibus	OK, I give up, bye	23:42
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Goliath23	villager: err, wrong window	23:42
villager	Goliath23: and the calendar config is how you want it?	23:43
Anunakin	:-D Lol	23:43
Goliath23	villager: its set to type = calendar:text/calendar! ... (including the !) .. is that right?	23:43
red	how do i force n900 to re-index? its all of a sudden showing only one audiofile	23:43
red	been that way two days now	23:44
villager	Goliath23: not necessarily	23:44
Goliath23	villager: what other options are there to try?	23:44
villager	Goliath23: the ! means overriding the server, which is probably only sensible in very specific circumstances	23:44
ShadowJK	shit. it works after reboot	23:45
villager	Goliath23: type = calendar should probably be enough	23:45
* ShadowJK 'd been happier if wifi still had been broken after reboot		23:45
javispedro	you wouldn't. really.	23:46
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Goliath23	villager: didn't help so far...	23:47
Goliath23	villager: lets see what the log says	23:47
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Goliath23	ah, there are some errors	23:48
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Goliath23	villager: new log file with errors when adding calendar items received from horde: http://www.vidsolbach.de/tmp/sysynclib_linux.html	23:49
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chx	hi. can you use an N900 to be the 3G modem for an N810?	23:55
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villager	Goliath23: maybe you need that override after all with that kind of server?	23:56
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villager	Goliath23: not sure if you need to override with text/calendar or text/x-vcalendar	23:57
Goliath23	villager: I try..	23:57
wiretapped	http://www.lightinthebox.com/N900-Style-Quad-Band-Dual-Card-Dual-Camera-JAVA-Qwerty-Keypad-Cell-Phone-Black--2GB-TF-Card--SZ00510226-_p86837.html	23:58
wiretapped	LOL N900 Style	23:58
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wiretapped	(found via an ad on nokia-n900.com via planet)	23:58
Stskeeps	but at least it runs java	23:58
javispedro	it runs java? DEALBREAKER!	23:59
Stskeeps	ah	23:59
Stskeeps	ovi shop too	23:59
Stskeeps	dealbreaker	23:59
Stskeeps	:P	23:59
Goliath23	villager: overriding desn't seem to have an affect. same error.	23:59
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