IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-01-13

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Stskeeps	we pretty much all agree /opt is shit but there's no better setup at short warning	00:00
Stskeeps	we discussed it in amsterdam too, interesting workshop	00:01
lupine_85	was maemo 4 the same?	00:01
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Jef91	Afternoon all	00:01
Stskeeps	people just cloned to SD when they ran out of space, end of story	00:01
Stskeeps	you can't expect 'normal' people to do that though	00:01
DocScrutinizer51	alas doing it right (like have a eparate opt partition) will break the upgradeability of the current system	00:01
Jef91	Anyone else here have performance issues with VGBA emulator on the N900?	00:01
lupine_85	well, as long as they're still debs, it's upgradable	00:02
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lupine_85	TBH, LFS isn't a /great/ match for anything with limited root storage and a need to install loads of user applications	00:03
lupine_85	erm, FHS	00:03
Jef91	My n900 just powered down with it was charging... >.<	00:03
DocScrutinizer51	FHS yeah. What? FHS? never heard	00:03
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lupine_85	interesting that it's using 60MB swap already	00:04
DocScrutinizer51	Jef91: then evidentally it was NOT charging, no? Did it tell it's charging?	00:04
Jef91	DocScrutinizer51 Yep.	00:05
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DocScrutinizer51	Jef91: so it,s not been a reboot?	00:06
red	Jef91: you can use more power than the charging output is	00:06
red	I know by experience :p	00:06
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DocScrutinizer51	hmm when using a usb host then yes	00:07
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Jef91	red - I figured thats what it was (its just charging via USB)	00:07
Jef91	Turned my 3g off thehehe	00:07
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DocScrutinizer51	otherwise (wallcharger) hardly i guess	00:07
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red	havent gotten a powerdown with wallcharger	00:08
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red	but having my phone tethered on laptop and torrents running on laptop	00:08
red	plus watching a videos from n900 for couple hours	00:08
DocScrutinizer51	lol. easily	00:08
red	and battery starts screaming :)	00:08
DocScrutinizer51	yeah	00:08
DocScrutinizer51	~hail usb-charging	00:09
* infobot bows down to usb-charging and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"		00:09
DocScrutinizer51	also invented by managers	00:09
DocScrutinizer51	they honestly requested to extend that nonsense to laptops - muhahaha	00:10
Jef91	Now if only we could hot swap batteries...	00:10
Jef91	its kinda funny - I'm no where near an outlet right now so I have my netbook out running off battery just to charge my phone...	00:11
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* lupine_85 gets confused by the sdk installerater		00:12
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lupine_85	doesn't seem to make use of the apt cache :/	00:12
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Jef91	When I run dpkg-buildpackage - where is the name of the package defined that is created?	00:15
Anidel	it gets it from the debian/changelog file	00:15
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Stskeeps	no, debian/control	00:16
lupine_85	I'm going to have to reboot for this vdso32 thing, aren't i...	00:16
jaem	lupine_85, yes	00:16
Anidel	I thought he was asking the filename (.deb) that's been created	00:17
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lupine_85	oh well, away we go	00:17
Anidel	the version's taken from the changelog, but the actual package name is from the control file	00:17
DocScrutinizer51	vdso32?	00:19
jaem	DocScrutinizer51, I'm not sure exactly what it is, but it's a kernel option for 64-bit systems that has to be enabled for sbox to work	00:20
jebba	lupine_85: there is a way to get around it, but anyway..	00:20
DocScrutinizer51	aah devel	00:20
DocScrutinizer51	jaem: thanks	00:20
apol	my n900 crashed while dist-upgrade -.- what should i do to fix? :(	00:21
apol	it's vibrating from time to time :S	00:21
frals	uh dist-upgrade	00:21
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frals	i heard thats a pretty good way to "brick" it, i could be wrong thou	00:22
jaem	gah... stupid voicemail	00:22
apol	great -.-	00:22
jaem	my uni Residence has a PBX that our phones all run through, and I guess they wanted to be "intuitive"	00:22
apol	frals: so should I flash it or what?	00:22
jaem	so all the options are the letter that the word starts with instead of just "press 1 for foo, 2 for bar", etc	00:22
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jaem	it's annoying as heck	00:23
frals	i dunno, i'm fairly certain a flash would solve it, but i'm not sure its necessary, someone else might have a solution for you :)	00:23
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jaem	apol, what do you mean by "crashed"? Spontaneously powered off/rebooted? or something else?	00:24
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apol	jaem: black screen, ssh connexion broken while updating xorg	00:25
apol	-.-	00:25
jaem	eep	00:25
jaem	so now it's just doing the power-on/vibra/logo/power-off loop, or what?	00:25
apol	jaem: yes	00:26
jaem	hmm	00:26
jaem	yeah, sounds like you'll need a reflash to me	00:26
jaem	the data in your $HOME theoretically should be fine	00:26
apol	jaem: can i reflash without windows?	00:26
jaem	yes, but there's no pretty GUI for it	00:27
jaem	check the wiki	00:27
lupine_85	that was 'fun'	00:27
lupine_85	forget my pc is also a bridge and a router these days	00:27
jaem	it's actually substantially less painful than NSU if you know what you're doing :P	00:27
jaem	lupine_85, oops	00:27
lupine_85	not so bad	00:28
lupine_85	grrr, no config.gz?	00:28
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SouBE	gosh, bricked N900	00:29
apol	SouBE: me too	00:29
ifreq	how did you manage?	00:30
Anidel	jaem thanks for the post in the thread	00:30
SouBE	is there any way to boot in root shell?	00:30
jaem	Anidel, no problem ;)	00:30
SouBE	i wish maemo had grub2 =)	00:30
jaem	Anidel, by the way, did you see what I meant now?	00:30
Anidel	:)	00:30
jaem	I had a hard time expressing it for some reason	00:30
Anidel	yep.. but still I don't see the diff between what you ask and a fixed amount .. I am not sure it can be done on a per "sheet bg"-basis	00:31
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jaem	Anidel, if it's a technical issue, I understand	00:31
Anidel	yup :) but the "fixed amount" would be defined in the Xournal config file	00:32
Anidel	so at least...	00:32
Anidel	there's some degree of personalization...	00:32
jaem	the difference, as I said, is that right now it's arbitrary - so to scroll by a unit of text (e.g. a line), you end up just mashing the arrow key until it looks right	00:32
Anidel	may be I can hack in a widget to change it.. we'll see .. as usual :)	00:32
jaem	if you could make it so it actually knew the line height, then the user wouldn't have to think about it	00:32
jaem	they could just click and have more space to write	00:33
Anidel	yup.. but so far the bg is just an image	00:33
jaem	heh, fair enough	00:33
jaem	ah, I didn't realize	00:33
jaem	well, in that case, couldn't you just calculate it from the zoom level, then?	00:33
Anidel	but I think I can add support for smart backgrounds	00:33
jaem	not a /good/ solution overall, but it should work, no?	00:33
jaem	that would be even better	00:33
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Anidel	where smart is an xml with the pixmap and some info related to the bg itself	00:33
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jaem	nice	00:34
Anidel	like line height	00:34
Anidel	I'll keep this in mind..	00:34
jaem	thanks :)	00:34
mj_	hi all, question, since there are lots of apps in the iphone that use 'PUSH' such as an ebay alerts app, do N900/Maemo apps have ability to recieve PUSH alerts as well?	00:34
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mj_	I am guessing it is just a matter of, if some one makes an app that uses it?	00:35
lupine_85	depends on the push technology, I guess	00:35
jaek	so after i flash the device, why does it keep the home partition (or at least /home/opt/)?	00:35
jaek	should i wipe out /home/opt myself?	00:35
lupine_85	it's full of jabber, for instance	00:35
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jaem	by the way, not a criticism, but I didn't notice much performance improvement over the N810. I would have expected it to be a bit better out of the box	00:35
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jaem	is that just optimization that needs to be done?	00:35
* lupine_85 does the maemo5 update		00:35
Anidel	jaem: xournal?	00:36
jaem	Anidel, yes	00:36
gouverneur	Anidel: how is the camera-to-grab-bg feature doing?	00:36
jaem	...given that the N900 is much faster	00:36
jaem	I'm just curious, as I said	00:36
Anidel	jaem the code is the same.. no idea why it doesn't feel faster.. actually. how can it be faster.. it's you writing :)	00:36
mj_	lupine_85: thanks	00:36
jaem	Anidel, I meant "responsive", I guess	00:36
Anidel	gouverneur, nothing.. I'm still completing the UI refinements	00:36
jaem	then again, come to think of it, the page size was rather larger than the last time I tried it on the N810	00:37
jaem	that's probably why	00:37
jaem	4 slides vs 1 Letter page :P	00:37
Anidel	jaem, it looks to me.. but can't compare straight away.. mind also that Xournal uses some old GTK.. may be needs some optimization..	00:37
jaem	how much does it keep in memory at a time?	00:37
* jaem nods		00:37
gouverneur	ah so no further feature work atm... looks good so far what are the issues with the UI	00:37
lupine_85	wonder if their browser will get WebSockets at any point	00:37
Anidel	and for now I only ported it.. it could use some optimization	00:38
* lupine_85 hates on Comet		00:38
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Anidel	gouverneur, yeah the UI is the reason why there's suck a lack of features	00:38
Anidel	they are all there in the code.. but missing a way to enable them	00:38
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Anidel	in Barcelona we found a nice way to bring back many features if not all	00:38
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Anidel	and i am doing that atm.. but slow :(	00:39
jaem	Anidel, do you mean the "next-gen UI" that you were showing?	00:39
kynky	webkit supports websockets i thought, and im sure fennec will	00:39
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Anidel	jaem, I wish :) that'll probably come with Maemo 6	00:39
jaem	heh, fair enough	00:39
jaem	it's nice as-is	00:39
gouverneur	uhh that sounds bad	00:39
Anidel	jaem, hopefully it'll be easier with Qt	00:39
jaem	that would be awesome, though	00:39
Anidel	jaem, indeed! Patricia did a very nice work.. and now offscr made this Blackboard Lite that looks nicer than Xournal :D	00:40
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jaem	hmm... I may have to look at that, if you think it's good :P	00:40
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jaem	but I do like Xournal	00:40
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lupine_85	oh, while I'm moaning, the N900 stylus is crap	00:41
lupine_85	compare it to a HTC one, you'll see what I mean :)	00:41
gouverneur	lupine_85: got a lamy 747...	00:41
Anidel	uhm I just had a nice idea about how to get one slot back in the toolbar	00:41
jaem	lupine_85, it's better than Palm, anyway	00:41
jaem	which is all I have to compare it to	00:41
jaem	Anidel, do tell	00:41
SouBE_	beware, don't install AdBlock Plus from App. manager and then remove it from MicroB's add-on manager. this will brick your N900	00:42
lupine_85	ooh, up to kernel 2.6.28	00:42
Anidel	jaem: when you tap the pen icon, it just highlights.. what about using that icon as a toggle between Pen and Eraser...	00:42
jaem	hmm	00:42
Anidel	tap Pen and you can write.. the icon shows eraser	00:42
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Anidel	tap again, you erase, the icon show pen	00:42
jaem	that sounds like it could work. If you can punch out a test build, I can give you feedback in terms of usability	00:42
Anidel	needs a way to indicate you can write or erase.. mmm	00:42
Anidel	maybe the icons just need to be clear	00:43
Anidel	they are big enough	00:43
jaem	is there enough space to split the icon, and then highlight either tool?	00:43
Anidel	to show that you can write and if you tap you get the eraser	00:43
jaem	probably a bad idea	00:43
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Anidel	something like that..	00:43
GeneralAntilles	I can't believe nobody brought out R&D mode for that stupid Do you want INSTALL FROM FILE back?!?!? thread.	00:44
* lupine_85 tries to visualise MDI + maemo		00:44
Anidel	not sure I need that in Xournal though.. you can switch say to Hand tool.. what happens if you want to go back there? keep it at last tool? toggle? mm.. need to think	00:44
* jaem nods		00:44
gouverneur	or you make it an indicator flashing for 500ms for any tool to choose	00:45
* Anidel needs to also pack the other icon set		00:45
Anidel	and make my own standard one	00:45
Anidel	'default' one	00:45
jaem	does Maemo (or its HIG) support the drop-down buttons (e.g click and drag down/up)	00:45
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Anidel	gouverneur, yup.. also...	00:45
Anidel	I am also thinking about splitting the toolbar in two vertical ones.. like the nextgen-ui	00:46
Anidel	but in GTK visual :) not that fancy one	00:46
GeneralAntilles	Red Pill is trying to "lock us out". Some people. . . .	00:46
Anidel	anyway.. just brainstormining	00:47
jon1012	yeah, about that, how to enable red pill mode in new maemo ?	00:47
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Anidel	GeneralAntilles, what's going on? I saw the thread.. but I can't follow talk that often anymore :(	00:47
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GeneralAntilles	Anidel, just a bunch of trolls and idiots being trolls and idiots together about Red Pill and root not shipping enabled out of the box.	00:48
jebba	GAH. So the stupid SDK install script reads at the top "This is proprietary software owned by Nokia Corporation." It's just some lame thing that grabs the SDK from their site and untars it, in some. So i can't even modify it to point at my own local repo?	00:48
jebba	s/some/sum/	00:48
infobot	jebba meant: GAH. So the stupid SDK install script reads at the top "This is proprietary software owned by Nokia Corporation." It's just sum lame thing that grabs the SDK from their site and untars it, in some. So i can't even modify it to point at my own local repo...	00:48
Anidel	GeneralAntilles, ah usual.. why are you still caring :)	00:48
jebba	haha, bot got that wrong anyway.	00:48
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gouverneur	my camera got a button to show the onscreen menus... what about to hide the toolbar at all and make the popup button the indicator for the tool	00:48
Anunakin	GeneralAntilles: huhauahuhauhuahuhuahuhau	00:48
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GeneralAntilles	Anidel, because the useful people trying to contribute to the thread missed the important fact that R&D mode is a thing.	00:49
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Anidel	so they removed update-icon-cache.. now all my new apps have the blue square icon.. nice :(	00:50
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GeneralAntilles	Anidel, yeah, how's that supposed to work, exactly	00:50
GeneralAntilles	?	00:50
GeneralAntilles	Reboot?	00:51
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Anidel	GeneralAntilles, explain it to them.. i'm sure you're doing it :)	00:51
Anidel	GeneralAntilles, if you reboot, you get the icons back	00:51
GeneralAntilles	Hrm, what runs on reboot to grab the icons?	00:51
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Anidel	GeneralAntilles, before it was enough to install a new one and only the last one would be iconless	00:51
Anidel	GeneralAntilles, actually.. yesterday after a bit some of them were there..	00:51
GeneralAntilles	Most postinsts were running gtk-update-icon-cache, right?	00:51
Anidel	GeneralAntilles, not sure what happened.. if just time or not..	00:52
Anidel	yep.. now is a no-op	00:52
GeneralAntilles	There's no icon cache.	00:52
GeneralAntilles	So how's h-d grabbing the icons?	00:52
* GeneralAntilles is clueless with GTK.		00:52
Anidel	GeneralAntilles, I don't know now how it works...	00:52
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GeneralAntilles	http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2010/01/good-start-for-2010.html	00:53
GeneralAntilles	lol . . .	00:53
GeneralAntilles	Comment 2 is classic.	00:53
Ave	it really is	00:54
Ave	but I guess the guy has better things to do than hang around with some smelly hippies	00:54
jon1012	how do I activate red pill mode in new firmware ?	00:54
jon1012	someone knows ?	00:54
Anidel	and of course he's Anonymous :)	00:55
Mozillion	I've read red pill is no longer available	00:55
SouBE	I've no idea how to debrick N900.. so is there some sort of a recovery console available or do I need to reprogram flash memory?	00:55
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Anidel	well he works 100% time on Maemo.. surely he has more karma than say Quim? or at least as much	00:55
jon1012	I really hope apt-get is still available, and will still be available in the future	00:55
jebba	SouBE: why do you need to debrick=	00:56
jon1012	nokia seems to be trying to lock maemo...	00:56
jebba	jon1012: apt-get aint going away i wouldnt think.	00:56
jon1012	:(	00:56
andre__	jon1012, red pill has gone	00:56
GeneralAntilles	Ave, yeah, I'd bet so. ;)	00:56
Anidel	looks like Quim's back :)	00:56
Mozillion	of course apt-get is available	00:56
andre__	jon1012: trying to lock? why?	00:56
GeneralAntilles	SouBE, define "brick".	00:56
jon1012	yeah but if they removed red pill, next step is to remove apt-get cli	00:56
Mozillion	it's just that red pill allowed for installing debs without missing depends, I believe	00:56
GeneralAntilles	jon1012, pffft.	00:56
Mozillion	with missing*	00:56
Mozillion	nah, it'll be fine!	00:57
Mozillion	gn all	00:57
GeneralAntilles	jon1012, then they have no package management.	00:57
GeneralAntilles	jon1012, please end the lame conspiracy theories.	00:57
Mozillion	I like PR1.0.1... my n900 is so much more snappier with the new kernel	00:57
jon1012	GeneralAntilles: using api and no cli apps... and only package manager	00:57
andre__	jon1012, of course apt-get will be available in the future	00:57
jon1012	I hope so	00:57
jaem	jon1012, like they said, red pill lets people do dumb things if they don't know what they're doing	00:57
andre__	jon1012, and if not you could still install it. come on.	00:57
SouBE	jebba , GeneralAntilles: N900 freezes while booting. it shows animated dots and then stops animation.	00:57
jon1012	but how to release an app as a deb then ?	00:58
jaem	the assumption being that if you know enough to use apt-get, you probably know what you're getting into	00:58
jon1012	without having a repo	00:58
jaem	if you don't, then you probably shouldn't be messing with it anyway	00:58
jon1012	you can't tell people to install your deb using app manager	00:58
jon1012	without red pill	00:58
jebba	SouBE: at second dot?	00:58
GeneralAntilles	SouBE, so, not bricked.	00:58
GeneralAntilles	SouBE,	00:58
GeneralAntilles	~flashing	00:58
infobot	well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	00:58
GeneralAntilles	jon1012, you shouldn't be passing .debs around through anything but a repo.	00:59
SouBE	jebba: yes, at the second dot	00:59
jebba	GeneralAntilles: he doesn't need to reflash	00:59
Mozillion	indeed	00:59
Mozillion	as debian-devel that just feels dirty!	00:59
jon1012	GeneralAntilles: why ? sometimes it is handy to just send a .deb	00:59
jebba	SouBE: read this: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Flash	00:59
Mozillion	oof :)	00:59
jebba	jon1012: then use dpkg -i foo.deb	00:59
Mozillion	gotta shower	00:59
jaem	jon1012, dependencies, for one	01:00
jaem	and it's just more messy than a repo	01:00
jaem	repos are there for a reason	01:00
jon1012	jaem: deps are handled when installing a .deb	01:00
Anidel	GeneralAntilles, http://share.ovi.com/media/anidel.n900/anidel.10193	01:00
jaem	if you can't use them, that's one thing, but they're always rpeferable	01:00
jaem	jon1012, not automagically, with dpkg	01:00
jon1012	jaem: with red pill it wad	01:00
jon1012	was*	01:00
jon1012	and that was a good thing	01:00
jaem	jon1012, ah, yes, but that's through HAM	01:00
jaem	well, in and of itself, yes	01:00
jaem	but there were problems, as we've been saying	01:01
GeneralAntilles	jon1012, Red Pill didn't handle dependencies for debs.	01:01
GeneralAntilles	jebba, can you please move some of that info out of your userspace?	01:01
jaem	GeneralAntilles, oh, I forgot	01:01
jaem	sorry	01:01
jebba	GeneralAntilles: go ahead if you want.	01:01
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jebba	top of my main page: "Feel free to take any of these pages and copy them over to the main wiki namespace (here or in any other wiki, for that matter)."	01:02
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Remosi	A friend of mine made an RSS feed that shows new/updated packages as they enter a repository, such as "maemo extras" http://packages.portal.net.nz/repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/ if anyone's interested.	01:07
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jebba	Remosi: nice	01:09
lupine_86	sigh, relegated to irssi	01:09
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Remosi	jebba, you get RSS feeds that tell you when things enter extras-devel but you really don't want to put that on your phone.... So knowing if/when apps hit extras itself is quite handy	01:10
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jebba	Remosi: so it does extras, extras-devel, extras-testing? (real slow for me to look right now on my end)	01:10
Remosi	it'll do any repository you tell it to	01:11
Remosi	the link I posted was just for extras	01:11
Remosi	and yeah, I suspect it's really slow, esp for repositories it's never seen before	01:11
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jebba	ah, ok. Cool. Any repo. Would be nice if it included the .changes file too	01:12
gorio	hi guys... i bougth an N900 and id like to know how to enable the accelerometer..	01:12
jon1012	gorio: how to enable ?	01:13
GeneralAntilles	Woo, apparently Mer voids your warranty. http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/discussions/board/message?board.id=maemo&message.id=2898#M2898 :rolleyes:	01:13
gorio	yes	01:14
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GeneralAntilles	gorio, as an application developer or as a user? :)	01:14
ds3	oh no!	01:14
andre__	gorio, like when writing code?	01:15
gorio	user	01:15
mrmg	gorio: landscape only	01:15
gorio	i a new user	01:15
GeneralAntilles	gorio, the accelerometer is enabled.	01:15
andre__	gorio, take an app that uses it :)	01:15
mrmg	only phone app is portrait	01:15
gorio	where ?	01:15
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andre__	gorio, what exactly do you want to see?	01:16
gorio	andre__ where can i get an app to test ?	01:16
mrmg	Bounce	01:16
andre__	install Bounce for example	01:16
gorio	i saw a video about a flight simulation	01:16
andre__	or aptitude	01:16
andre__	err sorry	01:16
gorio	yes	01:16
andre__	attitude I mean	01:16
gorio	this is	01:16
gorio	where can i get it ?	01:16
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mrmg	package manager	01:17
mrmg	application manager	01:17
andre__	gorio, aptitude in application manager. bounce in ovi store I think	01:17
andre__	arrrgh. I mean "attitude", not "aptitude".	01:17
mrmg	bounce is in extras	01:17
andre__	I think Bounce moved	01:17
mrmg	ah, okies	01:17
gorio	i'll try	01:17
mrmg	ovi is live now?	01:17
andre__	see bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7316	01:17
povbot`	Bug 7316: Bounce is not available anymore in any repository	01:17
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mrmg	my 2gig download of the maemo sdk images failed. sigh :-(	01:18
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jebba	2gig?	01:19
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mrmg	yeh	01:19
[Tycho]	Does anyone have virtual machine image with SDK for n770 ?	01:19
mrmg	Maemo_PreFinal_2_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Splitted.zip.001/002	01:20
andre__	mrmg, why prefinal 2?	01:20
* andre__ wonders what that means actually		01:21
mrmg	andre__: that was the newest	01:21
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GeneralAntilles	andre__, RC2.	01:21
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andre__	mrmg, but Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Splitted.zip.001/002 exists	01:23
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andre__	mrmg: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php	01:23
SouBE	jebba: thanks! it booted in rd-mode and i managed to get rid of malfunctioning browser add-on :)	01:24
andre__	SouBE, out of curiousity, which add-on was that?	01:25
mrmg	andre__: Maemo PreFinal Fremantle Beta 2 and Diablo SDK Virtual Image with Ubuntu Intrepid 8.10 Desktop Part 1	01:25
SouBE	andre__: AdBlock Plus	01:25
mrmg	that's beta, pre-final is better?	01:25
andre__	SouBE, ah	01:25
andre__	mrmg, I'd say it's final because it does not say anything	01:25
andre__	mrmg, but I'm not totally sure	01:26
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mrmg	andre__: on the right hand side?	01:26
andre__	mrmg, ah. darn. I see it now.	01:26
mrmg	hehe	01:26
andre__	mrmg, you're totally right, yours seems to be the latest. sorry.	01:26
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mrmg	no probs	01:27
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* Arkenoi just checked again. still no firmware update for me, wtf?		01:27
mrmg	and now I gotta download it again anyway.	01:27
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frals	so err.. did anyone else lose their "Synchronization" widget in the statusbar after 44-1?	01:27
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andre__	Arkenoi: sounds like https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7858 . feel free to add a comment there, please	01:29
povbot`	Bug 7858: cant see 1.2009.44-1 software update	01:29
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frals	nvm, reboot brought it back, probably me doing something bad(tm)	01:33
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* lardman\|home marvels at the wonders of the council and the fact that a fairly major route (hill) is now covered in snow with not a gritter in sight		01:43
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SpeedEvil	The grey council?	01:43
SpeedEvil	Snow all melting here.	01:43
SpeedEvil	My inner 5 year-old mourns.	01:44
lardman\|home	in Bath, been snowing for a couple of hours now	01:44
lardman\|home	was melting 'till this evening	01:44
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jebba	i was in snow in argenina a couple days ago :)	01:45
lardman\|home	:)	01:45
xorAxAx	Jaffa: and, is it ready? :)	01:46
ds3	so is the entire island snow covered now?	01:46
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jebba	anyone need to work in a SDK? I want to set up a new user with my new script ;)	01:46
lardman\|home	ds3: you mean the UK?	01:46
SpeedEvil	ds3: It was a few days ago. It's now melting in places	01:47
ds3	landman\|home: yeah, just the stuff on the north side of the channel (I think the UK has land elsewhere)	01:47
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SpeedEvil	ds3: see http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/402252main_LCROSS_results10_full.jpg	01:47
SpeedEvil	err	01:47
ds3	SpeedEvil: I saw the BBC picture	01:47
ds3	wanted ground confirmation ;)	01:47
ifreq	does the repos have good vnc client?	01:48
lardman\|home	ds3: dunno, I think they are classed as something else	01:48
lardman\|home	you know, America, India, Australia, etc. ;)	01:48
SpeedEvil	http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/amayfield/bAwhlBjuHpbDzaJJtGvfJHelpCAEwheIjsFCbomdoxJlrAqyngBgitvsfgtv/media_httpc2apiningco_dcFya.jpg.scaled500.jpg	01:48
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red	Anyone wanna help me a bit with port forwarding? :S	01:48
ds3	thought that's the difference between UK vs GB vs "England"?	01:48
SpeedEvil	http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4207075892/ is my favourite.	01:48
mrmg	how can I dev on device?	01:48
SpeedEvil	ds3: no.	01:49
SpeedEvil	ds3: UK is the united kingdoms of northern ireland, scotland, england and wales.	01:49
lardman\|home	England is a country, doens't include Wales, Scotland, NI, GB is the contiguous countries i.e. England, Scotland, Wales, UK also includes NI	01:49
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ds3	ah ok	01:49
red	Using Knots2 at the moment, and I opened 1978 port and 19780 port, locally it plays everything fine, using outside IP it says "waiting for video" and I tried as low bitrates as 500bps, so the video should be visible, but I feel like my NAT might be blocking it	01:49
mrmg	united kingdom of great britian and nothern ireland	01:49
lardman\|home	hmm, too many commas not enough semi-colons there	01:49
red	anyone know if it's TCP or UDP?	01:49
ds3	guess I what I meant there was GB; not sure of the snow status in NI	01:50
lardman\|home	iirc it's raining there	01:50
mrmg	ds3: some of ireland has it	01:50
lardman\|home	from looking at the forecast	01:50
mrmg	It's supposed to snow here tonight but nothing out my window yet	01:50
ifreq	has anyone got probs with icons after 1.0.1 patch?	01:51
lardman\|home	mrmg: where are you?	01:51
ds3	what's UK + Canada and the other countries that formally still has the queen as the head of state?	01:51
mrmg	London	01:51
mrmg	ds3: commonwealth?	01:51
ds3	ah	01:52
lardman\|home	mrmg: +1	01:52
mrmg	hehe	01:52
mrmg	is this a quiz?	01:52
mrmg	:-)	01:52
lardman\|home	test your UKness :)	01:52
mrmg	hehe	01:52
lardman\|home	not wanting to offend by saying Englishness ;)	01:52
lardman\|home	you know those Scots and Welsh ;D	01:53
mrmg	englishness is fine for me	01:53
jebba	ifreq: yes, re icons (not me, as i havent installed, but seen it mentoined)	01:53
ifreq	ah okay too bad :P	01:53
ifreq	just block after install	01:53
ifreq	s/block/blocks/	01:53
infobot	ifreq meant: just blocks after install	01:53
jebba	this looks cool: http://blog.pierlux.com/2010/01/12/one-more-map-app-for-the-n900/en/	01:54
* SpeedEvil is Scottish.		01:54
mrmg	is the easiest way to start developing just doing it in linux?	01:54
mrmg	I only have osx and win7 installed atm	01:54
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* lardman\|home takes back all the bad things he said about the Scots ;)		01:54
lardman\|home	My wife's father was Scotish	01:55
ifreq	mrmg: install virtualbox on osx and fetch virtual sdk image	01:55
pierlux	jebba, thanks! ;-)	01:55
zash	mrmg: i get the feeling that tools are more readily available	01:55
ifreq	mrmg: or vmware. what ever	01:55
ds3	Hmmm	01:55
ds3	<--- learned most things about the UK from BBC programs	01:55
mrmg	that the image that's corrupted for me twice now? :-(	01:55
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ds3	so at the moment, there appears to be only 2 big cities in GB - London and Cardiff :D	01:56
mrmg	some of my family are in scotland	01:56
ifreq	jebba: ah it was here :P https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6931	01:56
povbot`	Bug 6931: After installation of software last icon in "More..." view has default icon instead of own one	01:56
mrmg	aunt lives in Glasgow and a cousin in Aberdeen.	01:56
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ifreq	reboot & pray	01:58
mrmg	why am I typing on my ux when I could be on my n900?	01:58
ifreq	mrmg: really dunno.. :-P	01:58
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Jef91	Hey all	01:58
mrmg	hehe	01:58
mrmg	heya	01:59
Jef91	I'm trying to install .deb in my scratch box	01:59
Jef91	and I am getting this depen message "Package libgnutls13 is not configured yet."	01:59
Jef91	How do I tell my system to configure said pacakge?	01:59
Jef91	been hunting around on google but have not found anything	01:59
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jebba	pierlux: cool you're here. :) Definitely needs to add openstreetmaps data instead of the proprietary data sources. They'll never cover much of the world (e.g. argentina, where i am...)	02:00
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nhg	anyone know what gstreamer element is used by maemo/N900 etc. in order to display a video stream to the frame buffer?	02:00
pierlux	jebba, adding nominatim shouldn't be too hard ;-) but never as much detailed!	02:00
jebba	dpkg-reconfigure foo Jef91	02:00
jebba	pierlux: not yet as much detailed ;)	02:01
pierlux	jebba, I mean for instance OSM will never have phone number of businesses ;-)	02:01
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Jef91	jebba: dpkg-reconfigure - command not found	02:01
jebba	Jef91: you're right. I dunno ;)	02:02
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jebba	pierlux: but aren't there other sources that have this that can be tied in with OSM? I haven't followed this too closely, but i thought there were.	02:02
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Jef91	dpkg --configure foo	02:03
Jef91	Goo man docs thehehe	02:03
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jebba	ah ya, that heh	02:04
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red	what does "mapped private port" mean while port forwarding?	02:09
red	i do understand mapped private IP, and start port and end port	02:09
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ifreq	jebba: okay its not so bad.. as hildon-desktop reboot fixes it	02:11
ifreq	:P	02:11
odin_	the "private" is another way of saying the "local LAN"	02:11
odin_	so its possible to make a public IP and public port to any arbitrary private IP and private port, like 1.2.3.4:80 => 192.168.0.1:8080	02:12
odin_	s/make/map/	02:12
infobot	odin_ meant: so its possible to map a public IP and public port to any arbitrary private IP and private port, like 1.2.3.4:80 => 192.168.0.1:8080	02:12
pronto	that method of install .deb files, by typing matrix into add app catalogs dosent work for me o.O	02:12
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gouverneur	pronto: it was removed	02:13
pronto	oh	02:13
gouverneur	pronto: are you working on a live n900 or in a sdk?	02:13
user_	beautiful new look to app manager	02:13
mrmg	user_: yeh	02:13
pronto	guess i'll just use dpkg then	02:13
mrmg	the categories	02:13
odin_	is it possible to "make install" some autoconf enabled packages/application into an alternative root ?	02:14
odin_	can I use a /usr/bin/install or install.sh or something in a special way to effect this ?	02:14
user_	upgrade also freed 10MB on root here	02:14
odin_	I want visibility of all files a package installs and where they are installed to, so thay can be packaged up into a .deb	02:15
jebba	dpkg -L foo odin_?	02:15
user_	he has no deb yet	02:15
jebba	ah duh	02:16
gouverneur	odin_: you may 'make' a .deb	02:16
jebba	odin_: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Package_Building_HOWTO	02:16
odin_	dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot (what is fakeroot about ? that sound like what Im after)	02:17
jebba	fakeroot is sorta like sudo, without becomign root. It tricks apps into thinking you are running as root when you aint	02:18
odin_	I want "mkdir /tmp/my_arbitrary_root" then "make install use_root=/tmp/my_arbitrary_root" ? and I get a load of dirs/files as /tmp/my_arbitrary_root/usr/local/xyz	02:18
user_	odin, the "right way" is painful but perhaps less timewaste in the long run	02:18
jebba	odin_: what is your final goal?	02:18
odin_	can FuSE help? some kind of overlay FS ?	02:18
user_	go upstream in the process odin_	02:19
odin_	the final goal is to see clearly which files a package installs (no I wont want to take apart the "make install" output)	02:19
jebba	you are just making a .deb?	02:19
gouverneur	odin_: everything is allready mentioned in how to build packages, why do you wnat to find a new way?	02:19
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jebba	odin_: to see where it installs for what? you could do --prefix=/tmp/foo or somesuch too. but is the final goal to make a .deb?	02:20
odin_	well which part of the process isolates the files built ? i.e. I am using "./configure && make" to build something	02:20
odin_	I won't want to --prefix thats no good, it buggers up all the substituions based on it and /usr/local is _PERFECT_ default	02:20
jebba	if you are just trying to make a .deb you are going about it quite strange. WTF is it that you are really trying to do?	02:20
user_	not for maemo eh	02:20
odin_	so the dpkg auto-builder automatically isolate the files built ? if so how does it do that ? make some kind of loopback fs ?	02:21
jebba	odin_: it installs in something like foo-1.2.3/debian/tmp	02:21
user_	i woud pardon jebba for repeating the url here	02:21
gouverneur	odin_: its like tar... its a container with full pathes imported	02:22
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jebba	odin_: i think you are making this way more complicated that it needs be. But not quite clear what your final goal is. Like why would you just want to find out where the packages install? Just quit once you know? Or do something with that info?	02:22
odin_	ok how does it install into foo-1.2.3/debian/tmp what is the manual mechanism to do that ?	02:22
odin_	if I manually use ./configure --someoptions and make someoption=foo how do I make it install into foo-1.2.3/debian/tmp ?	02:23
gouverneur	odin_: its like extracting with path	02:23
jebba	odin_: are you just trying to make a .deb? Plz just answer that or i resign.	02:23
odin_	not at this time now	02:23
odin_	s/now/no	02:23
gouverneur	odin_: tell us what you are about or leave...	02:24
gouverneur	its anoying	02:24
odin_	about ?	02:24
jebba	it probably does something like `make DESTDIR=foomanchu install`	02:24
odin_	ah thanks a useful answer to investigate	02:24
jebba	odin_: see debian/rules files	02:24
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odin_	since Makefile is built with autoconf, then it must be an autoconf function, I'll take another looks at the awful docs	02:25
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gouverneur	odin_: ac_abs_top_builddir=$ac_abs_builddir/${ac_top_builddir}	02:28
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odin_	http://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf/manual/autoconf.html#Installation-Names (searching for DESTDIR does find mention here)	02:29
gouverneur	all variables are set with configure the makefile reads the config... and so on...	02:29
red	Anyone with the latest release candidate firefox (3.6) and VLC plugin in their browser here? =)	02:29
red	I'd like to run something by if I find a tester	02:29
jebba	VDVsx: reading your blog post on karma. Seems building a package for extras-devel and/or -testing should get some karma too, no? I mean, just clicking "thumbs up!" gets karma... actually building a package should be worth something i would think.	02:29
gouverneur	red: no vlc... what to test?	02:30
red	a media server I got configured	02:30
red	would need to test my transcoding settings vs my upstream	02:30
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VDVsx	jebba, karma comes when the package land in Extras	02:30
gouverneur	red: why does it need to be vlc?	02:31
red	it's ment to be played in a browser (latest firefox cause native full screen video support) or by utilizing VLC plugin	02:31
red	guess it might work on other platform	02:31
red	but im not sure and could skew results :)	02:31
gouverneur	red: link?	02:31
jebba	VDVsx: ya, i saw that, but there's lots of apps in -devel that should at least get something. I mean, the guy did the whole mapbuddy thing, which is worth far more than just some random comment, for example. He may have like 0 karma, even though having that in -devel is way better than just some blog post.	02:32
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red	wrote in query	02:32
jebba	if someone makes it thru all the hoops and timeouts to get something in extras "main" they should be canonized ;)	02:32
blarpystan	jebba can maintainer specifiy compile flags for extras?	02:33
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VDVsx	jebba, agree, but the karma system is imperfect, we can't add all those restrictions, will become too complicated	02:33
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VDVsx	jebba, we can give karma to maintainers	02:33
VDVsx	we planed because of the libs	02:34
jebba	blarpystan: ya, you can write the whole debian/rules file for whatever you want.	02:34
VDVsx	probably will address that issue that you raised	02:34
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VDVsx	S/we planned/is planned/	02:35
blarpystan	ty jebba	02:35
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GAN900	I wish h-a-m wouldn't bitch for updates.	02:52
GAN900	B	02:52
GAN900	Jaffa, you win.	02:53
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GAN900	Jaffa, just wish the icons were a bit bigger.	02:53
jebba	pierlux: have you seen the threads on maemo-devel about sharing map data (e.g. no need to re-download OSM data if Maep already has it)	02:53
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lardman\|home	how do I get a directory listing using wildcards in Python?	02:55
lardman\|home	and also, how can I load a module from a name contained in a variable?	02:55
lardman\|home	for the first, am not sure if os.listdir(path) takes wildcards	02:56
pierlux	jebba, I've seen a similar thread on talk-fr (osm)	02:56
pierlux	jebba, I am not on that list	02:56
lardman\|home	hi pierlux	02:57
pierlux	hi	02:57
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GAN900	lardman\|home, try Catorise?	02:58
odin_	is there any reason why /usr/local/lib is not in /etc/ld.so.conf by default?	02:58
lardman\|home	GAN900: is Jaffa's new menu app?	02:58
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah	02:58
lardman\|home	opening HAM now	02:59
angasule	I'm starting to like canola2	02:59
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GeneralAntilles	48x48 pngs encoded in base64 are not insignificant.	03:00
Andrewfblack	Jaffa got his menu app out yet?	03:00
odin_	also /etc/ld.so.conf.d/ directory does not exist, does Maemo support it, it created on a recent and standard ld.so right?	03:01
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lardman\|home	GAN900: nice	03:03
lardman\|home	Jaffa: well done	03:03
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cosmo	GeneralAntilles: we're back from california road trip, thanks for the hints	03:05
GeneralAntilles	cosmo, ah, happy to help. Good trip, I suppose? :)	03:05
cosmo	yep, we had fun	03:06
Archanamiya	Would I be allowed to ask for feedback on this app in the forums? http://arch.xceleo.org/themex	03:06
jebba	why not?	03:06
cosmo	we decided to skip LA and went only south to santa barbara	03:06
Archanamiya	jebba, @ me?	03:06
GeneralAntilles	cosmo, sounds like it was probably a good plan.	03:06
b-man17	jebba: it's a bit web-oriented	03:07
jebba	Archanamiya: ya, talk is pretty wide open	03:07
Archanamiya	Awesome :)	03:07
Archanamiya	thanks	03:07
b-man17	Archanamiya: do it ;)	03:07
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Archanamiya	b-man17, I shall	03:07
Archanamiya	Should I just post it in Development?	03:08
cosmo	GeneralAntilles: weather was good compared to almost any other place in the us.. even florida was colder	03:08
Archanamiya	jebba, should I just post it in Development?	03:09
blarpystan	irssi /me color is white on white	03:09
* blarpystan tests		03:09
jebba	Archanamiya: depends who you want feedback from. Development if you want feedback from develoipers, applications if you want from users (as a suggestion)	03:09
GeneralAntilles	cosmo, was it ever . . . :stillshivering:	03:09
Archanamiya	jebba, yeah. devleopment	03:09
GeneralAntilles	Finally climbing back into the 50s during the day this week. <_<	03:09
GeneralAntilles	Archanamiya, are you familiar with the maemo-developers mailing list?	03:10
Archanamiya	GeneralAntilles, I am not.	03:10
GeneralAntilles	~mailing-lists	03:10
GeneralAntilles	http://maemo.org/community/mailing-lists/	03:11
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GeneralAntilles	~mailing-lists is http://maemo.org/community/mailing-lists/	03:11
infobot	okay, GeneralAntilles	03:11
GeneralAntilles	Archanamiya, another good option to spam.	03:11
Archanamiya	I can't say I've ever used mailing lists before.	03:11
Archanamiya	heh :P	03:11
GeneralAntilles	Archanamiya, well, now's as good a time as any. ;)	03:11
Archanamiya	I suppose so. :P	03:11
GeneralAntilles	No time like the present, etc., etc.	03:11
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pronto	Is it possible to add an "alt" key button on xterm next to Ctrl or TAb?	03:18
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Shapeshifter	has anyone tried a Gigabyte M528?	03:20
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lardman\|home	night all	03:25
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jebba	pronto: i haven't done "alt", but here's some keymap hints: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Keymap	03:28
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pronto	ah, thats somewhat annoying, since i have irssii to use alt and i ssh to my box	03:30
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Archanamiya	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=467543	03:37
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odin_	can I compile again "host_shared" in scratchbox, so that some tools/binaries can be used inside scratchbox no matter what the current target it set to ? it seems I can't run my favorite editor (which I build under FREMANTLE_X86 and also the system compiler) when I am setup for FREMANTHE_ARMEL but I see all the tools that work report /scratchbox/host_shared/ libraries	03:38
odin_	ldd /scratchbox/tools/bin/vi: reports libc.so.6 => /scratchbox/host_shared/lib/libc.so.6, when I am sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL, but my favorite editor reports libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (which I presume is mapped/fixed up for ARM now)	03:40
odin_	so I need a compiler that will link against /scratchbox/host_shared/ and output a native binary (X86)	03:42
t7g__	Has anyone considered or looked into trying to do an open-source Angry Birds level editor?	03:42
red	:D	03:43
red	why	03:43
t7g__	I know they probably wouldn't like that per se, and I don't mind paying for the levels, but I'd rather like to make my own if they won't sell the the tool	03:43
red	ah :)	03:44
t7g__	I would pay say, 15-20$ USD for a level editor but from the research I've done they aren't gonna do that	03:44
red	they probably didnt make the levels with any editor	03:44
red	or how would I know, never even checked the game x)	03:45
t7g__	I haven't peered into it yet, but I would assume they'd at least make some tool	03:45
red	could be yeah	03:45
red	most games have some type, but its usually more extensive / only coder friendly	03:45
odin_	ok I created a new target HOSTSHARED and use "host-gcc" as the compiler and that appears to result in a.out against "libc.so.6 => /scratchbox/host_shared/lib/libc.so.6" which is exactly what I needed	03:45
red	so releasing it as is and coding a custom level support is some work	03:45
t7g__	Well I mean, I don't know how the binary is constructed but it shouldn't be impossible to change the levels, especially if you keep it under the previous level filesize (unless they did something behind the scenes)	03:46
jebba	odin_: why the hell are you doing all this?	03:48
SpeedEvil	/home/opt/rovio/angrybirds/data/levels/pack1/	03:48
jebba	the purpose makes no sense to me.	03:48
SpeedEvil	*lua	03:48
SpeedEvil	It's got handy hints in it at least	03:48
odin_	jebba, so I can run my favorite text editor from inside SBOX no matter what the current target is set to	03:49
jebba	(we had a long thread in /msg about something similar earlier today, for those spectating)	03:49
jebba	what is your favorite editor anyway?	03:49
jebba	just build a .deb of it and install it ;)	03:49
odin_	joe (Joe's Own Editor)	03:49
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odin_	three times ?	03:50
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jebba	well, you just package it once and build it for ARM & i386. Not sure what third one you are talking about.	03:51
odin_	for the system outside of SBOX	03:51
jebba	ah, i can just install that outside sbox.	03:51
jebba	1 sec	03:51
jebba	you can also edit files in your scratchbox from out of it.	03:52
jebba	odin_: ok, joe installed outside of scratchbox	03:52
odin_	yep, thanks on joe installation	03:52
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jebba	I have a symlink in my homedir (outside) like: scratchome -> /scratchbox/users/jebba/home/jebba/ So then you can use joe from outside to edit things easily (such as building joe!)=	03:52
odin_	well I'm upto 8 packages so far tonight in my audit, to create a "busyboxless" group-package	03:53
odin_	goal is to replace anything linked to busybox with the real package, that is installed in /usr/local	03:53
SpeedEvil	odin_: sounds interesting	03:53
jebba	i'm building wxwidgets2.8 right now ;) for the hell of it since someone mentioned audacity in talk...	03:54
jebba	odin_: someone did a gcoreutils, btw. All coreutils programs, but prefaced with g	03:54
jebba	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Repositories ruskie iirc	03:54
odin_	bash-4.1 coreutils-8.3 util-linux-ng-2.17 grep-2.5.4 gzip-1.3.13 psmisc-22.10 net-tools-1.60-cvs iproute2-2.6.31 (so far)	03:54
jebba	probably better if you put them in /opt not /usr/local due to space reqs	03:55
jebba	like /opt/foo/bin or somesuch then people can just put that in their path ahead of /bin /usr/bin etc	03:55
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odin_	not what my goal are, no prefix just correction of GNU utils for interactive shell use on N900 (since /usr/local is not used by the system), yes sorry if I was not clear the binaries go into /home partition (so /opt, but symlinks exist from /usr/local/ => /opt)	03:56
odin_	as in /home/opt/maemo/usr/local/bin	03:57
jebba	ah ok. As long as they are in /opt you'll be good. + whatever symlinks	03:57
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odin_	that is where I'm thinking, that the /home/opt/maemo/ is a secondary system tree (of non-important stuff)	03:58
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jebba	i'll be clobbering the box with a make -j8 for awhile here ;)	04:03
odin_	no greedy	04:03
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jebba	ah nice, we actually got 3 simultaneous users building on there ;) perhaps i shouldnt be so greedy ;)	04:08
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GAN900	Where the hell is Boxwave's N900 protector. . . .	04:11
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jebba	odin_: btw you can add this to parallelize your builds:	04:21
jebba	export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=$DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS,parallel=8	04:21
jebba	export CONCURRENCY_LEVEL=8	04:21
Macer	sherlock holmes sucks	04:21
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jaek_	after flashing, what should i do about /opt?	04:39
jaek_	the package metadata is gone, so...	04:39
jebba	jaek_ if you did a backup of the data using the stock backup program, i think you may be able to restore it (i havent done this myself, but i think that's what i've read)	04:41
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jaek_	i'm not concered about keeping the software, since it is all from extras-*	04:41
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jaek_	i'm not concerned with keeping the data in /opt	04:44
jaek_	rather just don't want the old packages still installed there	04:45
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user_	i can get 30 cm range on radio while holding device and using fm boost applet	04:46
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jaek_	how would i purge the /opt after i flash the device?	04:47
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jebba	jaek_: you'd have to manually rm i suppose	04:48
pupnik	the installed apps in opt should be gone afaik	04:48
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jaek_	looks like there is a separate image for the eMMC	04:53
odin_	maemo-optify-deb (is that installed, or just some kind of script I obtain) ?	04:56
pupnik	we have competing Load-applet and cpumem-applet.	04:56
jaek_	yup, there are 3 of them	04:56
jaek_	i think they are just forks of eachother tho	04:57
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pupnik	inatalling more than one caused me trouble	04:57
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pupnik	didnt realize there were multiple. do you know which is best?	04:57
jaek_	i use the simplest one, don't need the screenshot functionality	04:58
jaek_	that should really be a separate package really	04:58
pupnik	some crazy utilities in the pipeline... usb-host-mode...	04:58
Caesium	that'll be an interesting one	04:59
jaek_	um, crazy? not really considering the 770 had host mode	04:59
Caesium	someone figured out the host mode then?	04:59
pupnik	no idea	04:59
jaek_	i thought the hw on the n900 couldnt support it	04:59
pupnik	never read any posts showing it working	04:59
odin_	jaek, ditto	04:59
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pupnik	hence, "crazy"	05:00
pupnik	and not "not really"	05:00
odin_	I think fir the next N900 (i.e. "Mobile Computer" they should have 2 USB ports, i.e. add a Micro-USB which is pure-hostmode) this means you can charge/power and user host-mode and no issues with connector confusion	05:00
pupnik	nice idea odin_	05:01
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jebba	odin_: install maemo-optify package to get maemo-optify-deb if it's not there already	05:01
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odin_	how can you call the device a "Mobile Computer" when it has not USB hostmode, when USB is "the bus for peripherals"	05:02
microlith	because lack of USB does not negate its being a computer?	05:03
microlith	lack of usb host mode, rather	05:03
jaek_	i personally don't see myself ever using usb host	05:03
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odin_	it a "Mobile Internet Tablet" (just like is predecessor) not a "Mobile Computer" like say a Netbook is	05:04
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microlith	it's still a computer	05:04
microlith	in fact I'd say my N900 at this point is equally capable and far more useful than my aspire one :?	05:05
Caesium	odin_: that's just nit picking :)	05:05
microlith	:)	05:05
jaek_	my watch is a computer too, semantically	05:05
odin_	no a computer has peripherals and is general purpose	05:05
Caesium	N900 can have peripherals? BT ones :)	05:05
microlith	odin_: N900 has peripherals, and it's quite general purpose	05:05
odin_	yay for BT storage	05:05
odin_	by the time I copied 100Mb my battery went flat, ho ho	05:06
Caesium	I was hunting for a BT-based usb host earlier, or a wifi one, but couldn't find anything	05:06
SpeedEvil	jaek: pupnik: my latest research seems to say that it's very likely that USB host mode (with external power) can be done. I (or someone) just has to get round to poking the hardware to do so.	05:06
Caesium	apparently they do exist tho	05:06
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microlith	I stuffed a 16GB uSD in mine	05:06
microlith	plenty of storage	05:06
SpeedEvil	wifi storage is quite common	05:06
odin_	yep and me	05:06
pupnik	also has radio, transmitter, camera, gps and storage peripherals	05:06
odin_	wifi storage that is battery powered is not so common :(	05:06
jaek_	don't forget IR	05:06
microlith	jaek_: xmit only	05:06
jaek_	i doubt bluetooth is that power hungry	05:06
SpeedEvil	It's not.	05:07
SpeedEvil	Much	05:07
SpeedEvil	But the whole system has to be awake to feed it data	05:07
odin_	but its not fast either	05:07
jaek_	power efficiency wise, bluetooth is probably the least power hungry (out of bluetooth/wifi/gsm/3g)	05:07
microlith	wifi is very power hungry :(	05:07
SpeedEvil	jaek: I doubt it.	05:07
* pupnik boggles at devbox kernel panic on fsck.vfat		05:08
SpeedEvil	microlith: it's really not - if power saving is working.	05:08
microlith	I have to turn off all the powersave modes in my apartment or my router won't talk to my N900	05:08
odin_	short range and slow == lower power use, but I really don't think its beats the Megabits per milli-amp-hour of wifi ?	05:08
microlith	so it gets quite warm and the battery doesn't last	05:08
jaek_	same	05:08
microlith	at work it's not too bad	05:08
microlith	but they probably have cisco APs or the like	05:08
SpeedEvil	microlith: as in sshing into the n900 asking about battery life over wifi - it lasts >30h	05:08
jaek_	i actually just disable wifi, only use it when i need to download lots of stuff	05:08
jaek_	and put the "phone" to 3g only	05:09
jaek_	it seems to last much longer than before	05:09
microlith	of course, I'm not using the 3G parts of the device (only 2.5G)	05:09
jaek_	if you just need to update an rss feed or chat, you don't need it	05:09
pupnik	glioblastoma ftw	05:09
odin_	SpeedEvil, are you using the SSH session to shift any data tho ? or like maybe just 1Mb per hour over that 30hours	05:09
SpeedEvil	odin_: more like 100k/hour	05:10
SpeedEvil	but if you burst data transfer at 5 meg a second - for 60 seconds - that's 300 meg	05:10
odin_	SpeedEvil, and 12 hours asleep and 4 hours washing, eating and dumping and maybe 8 hours idling he he	05:10
pupnik	i have seen 2MB/s max over wifi to fk	05:11
pupnik	flash	05:11
jaek_	someone should benchmark the power usage of the different radios	05:11
odin_	Im sure I get 6Mb/s to eMCC over SSH	05:11
odin_	but I've had phone crash on me half-dozen times when doing ~12Gb copies	05:11
pupnik	i get about 15 hours music playback + ssh+irssi + wifi	05:12
odin_	i.e. 6 time when I first filled my 16Gb uSD... or rather the phone did not always crash just the WiFi failed to work, i.e. no amount of doing anything could get it working again	05:12
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pupnik	with screen dimmed	05:12
odin_	wow I don't think I could get 15h out of mine like that... mine is flat in less than 3 hours if I use it for RSS/browsing over WiFi while watching TV	05:13
jaek_	using fbreader alone seems to kill the battery pretty quickly for me	05:13
jaek_	odin_, agreed...	05:14
jaek_	if i'm not careful, it won't even last till i get home	05:14
SpeedEvil	jaek: I'm going to. jaek: I have a half-completed power measurement jig.	05:14
jaek_	SpeedEvil, sweet, make sure to post it somewhere that gets picked up by maemo planet ;)	05:15
odin_	SpeedEvil, to measure mA draw under use ?	05:15
SpeedEvil	Won't.	05:15
SpeedEvil	Will stick it on the wiki.	05:15
SpeedEvil	I don't really do blogs.	05:15
KenYoung	Reading the Extras-testing QA checklist, it sounds like the location of a package's bug tracker must be listed in one of the package's files (like README or something). Does anyone know if there is a specific place where bug tracking details must be listed in order to pass the Extras-testing QA?	05:15
jaek_	SpeedEvil, are you going to compare close range/long range?	05:15
SpeedEvil	jaek: initially no. Just raw baselines	05:16
jaek_	wifi close range vs bluetooth is what we were discussing earlier	05:16
pekuja	Angry Birds is fun	05:16
SpeedEvil	The BT radio is probably half the power of the wifi radio.	05:16
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odin_	can you make a simple mA measuring device out of a PIC microcontroller	05:17
odin_	SpeedEvil, when idling? or in use?	05:17
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SpeedEvil	But - the wifi one is on the order of a few dozen times faster	05:17
jebba	KenYoung: in debian/control	05:17
SpeedEvil	odin_: the CPU will dominate over radio usage.	05:17
jaek_	you should be able to read it directly from the acpi or something... shouldnt you?	05:17
jaek_	my laptop somehow knows how much power it is drawing itself	05:17
jebba	KenYoung: add a line like this:	05:17
jebba	Xsbc-Bugtracker: https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=BurgerSpace	05:17
SpeedEvil	jaek: I have questions about the whole in-device measurement stuff. Some of it seems very inaccyurate. Plus, it can't measure when suspended for obvious reasons	05:18
odin_	SpeedEvil, ah you just need kernel support for power-management-auditing	05:18
jaek_	SpeedEvil, of course wifi is faster, pure efficiency wise, byte/watt	05:18
KenYoung	jebba, Thanks! That's exactly what I needed to know.	05:18
SpeedEvil	odin_: no.	05:18
SpeedEvil	odin_: you cannot measure idle power usage without something to measure the idle power usage.	05:18
odin_	SpeedEvil, if you combine your metrics with knowing the kernel info you have reliable data	05:19
SpeedEvil	odin_: if that involves wakeups, you are no longer idle	05:19
SpeedEvil	odin_: yes, and assuming kernel state can be harder than simply making a bit of hardware.	05:19
odin_	SpeedEvil, well you might be able to count CPU intertupts and bytes for BT/WiFi to get a reliable counter	05:20
jaek_	measuring just the power usage from the battery alone should just require an amp meter	05:20
SpeedEvil	jaek: it's regrettably complex. But basically.	05:21
odin_	jaek, yes... and combine all the weighting (i.e. usage pattern, duty cycle, idle, when off, when on, startup, etc...) with kernel info and reliable info can come out	05:21
odin_	jaek, you come out with a formula for each thing, a bunch of kernel counters/metric/stats	05:22
SpeedEvil	odin_: yes - that sort of stuff - just starting off with an external meter hooked to a scope	05:22
SpeedEvil	odin_: to verify the internal meters.	05:23
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jaek_	anyways, i'm getting hungry, catch you guys later	05:23
odin_	SpeedEvil, does the scope have a memory? hence my thoughs on a PIC microcontroller as a mA measuring device that can store sample over time	05:24
SpeedEvil	odin_: no - hooked to usb	05:25
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odin_	cool so you can graw pretty graphs for the wiki :)	05:26
odin_	s/graw/draw/	05:26
infobot	odin_ meant: cool so you can draw pretty graphs for the wiki :)	05:26
SpeedEvil	ideally, yes.	05:27
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SpeedEvil	More interesting is periodicity.	05:27
SpeedEvil	You do a hundred times	05:27
SpeedEvil	turnsomethingon;sleep 1;turnsometningoff;...	05:28
SpeedEvil	and then you get a very nice measurement of how much that thing uses	05:28
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orangey	hello all! Is there any work to do an android for n900?	05:43
orangey	or, for that matter, is android for n810 any better?	05:43
SpeedEvil	Not public.	05:43
GeneralAntilles	Android on N900 . . . lol	05:44
dryajov	had anyone looked into porting maemo to other non maemo nokia devices?	05:44
dryajov	like the 5800 XM	05:44
xorAxAx	forget it	05:45
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xorAxAx	its not open enough	05:45
orangey	GeneralAntilles: one problem currently plaguing me is the lack of medical apps for maemo. I use GVM, and that works great.. but it doesn't do some important once : )	05:45
microlith	I think there's a port on the Zoom II, not exactly a cellphone but...	05:45
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SpeedEvil	orangey: there are people looking at various ways to get android apps to run.	05:45
orangey	SpeedEvil: that would be AWESOME!	05:45
SpeedEvil	orangey: it's not simple - however it's done though.	05:45
orangey	how will it happen?	05:45
SpeedEvil	orangey: and it's going to be some time.	05:46
SpeedEvil	orangey: I'm not aware of more than people expressing interest in doing it. Don't know about actual people working on it.	05:46
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dryajov	looks like arm has linux images for the nokia 5800 processor - ARM1136J(F)-S	05:54
dryajov	http://www.arm.com/products/os/linux_download.html	05:55
dryajov	has anyone tried them?	05:55
dryajov	anyone?	05:56
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GeneralAntilles	dryajov, is your question whether anybody has booted Linux on the 5800?	05:57
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GeneralAntilles	dryajov, because it's not nearly as simple as having a binary compiled for the right instruction set.	05:58
dryajov	yep	05:58
GeneralAntilles	the ARM11 is one of the most common CPU in mid-high range mobile devices.	05:58
GeneralAntilles	dryajov, yeah, Nokia's bootloader prevents that from happening.	05:58
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dryajov	what about using u-boot or any other boot loader?	05:59
dryajov	or is there some sort of hardware restriction?	05:59
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microlith	dryajov: swapping the bootloader is quite risky	06:00
lcuk	linux likes to be on other hardware. thats the nature of the game, havent we spent the last 15 or so years installing it on everything from computers to toasters to carrs and other impractical devices?	06:02
lcuk	dryajov, how do you get a bootloader on there?	06:03
lcuk	ill forget the fact you have no drivers at the moment	06:03
lcuk	and that the device might not have a happy amount of memory for maemo	06:03
lcuk	and however many other things	06:03
lcuk	just assuming all that was right, how do you start	06:03
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orangey	lcuk: jtag?	06:04
lcuk	not really user friendly, but plausable for an engadget article	06:05
dryajov	well, there is an attempt to create a boot loader that would be run from within symbian	06:05
dryajov	http://n70linux.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/one-little-step-forward/	06:06
dryajov	it is for n70	06:06
dryajov	the idea is to gain kernel priveleges from within the os and then bootstrap whatever is that we want	06:06
dryajov	can be linux...	06:06
lcuk	ok dryajov so you came with a loaded question and knew the answer before you started	06:06
dryajov	not really, I'm just trying to create a discussion...	06:07
* lcuk nods		06:07
dryajov	see if anyone had atempted it befor on the 5*** series...	06:07
lcuk	its an interesting one too!	06:08
lcuk	people round these parts generally dont talk about the other nokia devices tho	06:08
lcuk	since we are maemo and geared towards the interest tablets	06:08
lcuk	there are pracitcal problems with putting maemo on its sibling hardware related mainly to screen resolution	06:08
* lcuk would be mega impressed if mer got onto them tho		06:09
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dryajov	hmm... probably mer would be a more suited place to ask this questions... :)	06:10
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lcuk	mer has apparantly been run on devices with lower resolution (even running it on a cigarette lighter!)	06:11
dryajov	what about maemo drivers are they proprietaty?	06:13
dryajov	or there is source code for them	06:13
lcuk	theres a few device specific blobs around	06:13
dryajov	because I think in therms of hardware the 5*** devices are close to the n8x0 series...	06:13
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luke-jr	pizza	06:35
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BirdFlew	evening all	06:41
pronto	hi hi	06:41
* BirdFlew just pulled his first all-nighter coding for the N900... and it doesn't look like it'll be the last		06:42
pronto	awesome, i just got my n900 in the mail today :p	06:42
BirdFlew	nice :-D	06:43
BirdFlew	it really does keep getting better the more time you spend with it	06:43
pronto	gonna take some time getting used to the keybaord though	06:43
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BirdFlew	yeah, but you get the hang of it... i'm coding in python directly on the N900 and there's no dramas	06:45
pronto	ouch	06:46
pronto	i feel sorry for your thumbs	06:46
pronto	or did you ssh to it? :p	06:46
BirdFlew	haven't tried ssh yet, just been pummling my thumbs	06:46
lcuk	pronto, hes not the first	06:46
BirdFlew	heh	06:46
lcuk	BirdFlew, have you installed pygtkeditor	06:46
BirdFlew	yup	06:47
lcuk	im sure khertan would appreciate some feedback :)	06:47
lcuk	he worked hard to make it useable	06:47
BirdFlew	i'm becoming quite the fan of it actually	06:47
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pronto	any news on google maps for maemo5?	06:48
BirdFlew	i'll thank him next time i run into him	06:48
GeneralAntilles	pronto, Maemo Mapper	06:48
GeneralAntilles	pronto, the web interface is also workable	06:49
BirdFlew	anyone know which is higher precision in mysql, real or floats?	06:50
lcuk	arent they all the same thing? look on mysql docs	06:51
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BirdFlew	looking at the docs as we speak, but for some reason i'm losing a few digits after the decimal point no matter what i choose... further tinkering is required	06:54
red	what are you making BirdFlew	06:54
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BirdFlew	a loss prevention program for the N900 which periodically polls the gps then uploads the coordinates to a web server... so of course the more precise the numbers are, the better	06:57
pronto	oh nice	06:58
pronto	i would acutly pay for something like that , if it was good	06:58
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BirdFlew	pronto: i'm aiming to polish it up real good... working on a central web service with google map integration, but i assure you the end result will be totally free	06:59
pronto	you gonna release the server side?	06:59
pronto	because my location is something i'd pefer to keep private(ish)	07:00
BirdFlew	maybe, but it's a mess... still, who better than the open source community to clean that up, hey?	07:00
BirdFlew	yeah i anticipated that	07:01
pronto	awesome	07:01
BirdFlew	so i'm adding the ability to upload to your own ftp server	07:01
BirdFlew	also trying to keep it all as anonymous as possible where the web service is concerned, i'm a big privacy advocate	07:04
xorAxAx	did somebody try ruskies repartitioning script?	07:05
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pronto	hey BirdFlew your project got a website or anything yet?	07:17
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BirdFlew	not yet	07:21
BirdFlew	gotta get the nuts and bolts of it working first	07:21
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GAN900	BirdFlew, for a sharing plugin?	07:27
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BirdFlew	not sure what you mean by sharing plugin mate?	07:28
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GAN900	BirdFlew, for photo/video sharing	07:31
GAN900	BirdFlew, be great to have a plugin for FTP to go with flick, Ovi, etc.	07:32
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* thomaz finally got his n900		07:38
BirdFlew	ah	07:38
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GeneralAntilles	BirdFlew, in summary, I'm trying to sucker some poor chump into writing it. ;)	07:42
lcuk	i see your motivational skills are working perfectly GeneralAntilles lol	07:44
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tank-man	BirdFlew, why do you need to log the location of your n900?	07:54
tank-man	if its just for loss prevention	07:54
tank-man	it's	07:54
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rkc	can we connect external hard drives to n900?	07:54
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auenf	read the USB OTG and USB HOST threads	07:55
rkc	what is the exact name of the channel?	07:56
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auenf	?	07:56
tank-man	he thinks you are giving 'smart ass' answers	07:57
auenf	well, i am	07:57
auenf	but they are also correct	07:57
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auenf	my useless smart ass answers are reserved for doom9	07:58
rkc	auenf: I thought its a different irc channel.. i ll check that thread..	07:58
rkc	well guys.. cool.........	07:58
auenf	make 3 pots of tea/coffee	07:58
auenf	you'll need it to get thru the threads	07:58
rkc	:)	07:58
Proteous	heh	08:01
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BirdFlew	tank-man: mainly to prevent theft	08:08
BirdFlew	i've actually never had a phone stolen from me before, so knock on wood, but it does happen	08:09
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lcuk	BirdFlew, it wont prevent theft tho	08:10
lcuk	it may facilitate its return	08:11
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pronto	is it jsut me, or does the included media play suck when ty ing to play mp3's	08:11
tank-man	yea but how does a log of locations improve recover vs single known last location	08:11
jX	pronto: WFM, what problems do you have?	08:11
lcuk	i like the log idea tho	08:11
lcuk	for different reasons :)	08:11
pronto	in the middle of a song it'll randomly jump to another one	08:11
lcuk	having a full breadcrumb trail is cool	08:11
lcuk	mmm pronto ?	08:12
jX	auenf: hey there!	08:12
Proteous	why does the "fullscreen" button need to stay lit when I go fullscreen. I know it is active... cause... the terminal is filling the screen...	08:12
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Proteous	draconian UI rules probably	08:13
pronto	jX: ^	08:14
jX	can't say I've had tha tproblem	08:14
jX	and I have over 2k mp3s on the unit	08:14
pronto	insterting	08:14
pronto	i only have about 50 or so	08:14
auenf	jX, you're hiding in here with timeless?	08:15
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jX	auenf: Apparently.	08:15
jX	I should look at the nick list and see who else is here.	08:15
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jX	looks like we're it.	08:17
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tigert	Proteous: because its a toggle button	08:21
tigert	toggle buttons work like that	08:21
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ruskie	omg... 2 highlights in one less than 8 hours...	08:33
ruskie	xorAxAx, the script is actually a set of instructions... if you save it and run it, it will just exit safely :) you're supposed to follow it not run it :)	08:34
ruskie	xorAxAx, sure copy pasting will work as well :)	08:34
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ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/13/gsm_crypto_crack/ <-- :)	08:45
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pronto	anyone know if swype is gonna be ported to maemo	09:05
pronto	http://www.swypeinc.com/index.html	09:06
Wolfie	I've never used the virtual keyboard on my n900... i don't see how swype could compete with the hw keyboard	09:07
Undrwater	Wolfie: for maybe other devices...	09:07
pronto	though swype does look pretty awesome	09:07
Wolfie	Undrwater: but... i mean, maemo is more linux than phone os, in my mind. you wouldn't want to use xterm with a virtual keyboard	09:08
Wolfie	the screen estate wouldn't allow for it	09:08
Wolfie	pronto: sure, for hw-keyboard-less phones, it seems like an excellent choice	09:08
Undrwater	Wolfie: using xterm with virtual kb on openmoko ;) not great	09:08
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Wolfie	Undrwater: heh :) i can imagine	09:09
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Undrwater	Wolfie: doable with the available keyboards...but nothing like a hard keyboard	09:09
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rkc	what is the difference between fremantle and diablo.. soryy if its a silly question	09:25
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cosmo	rkc: fremantle is a newer version of the operating system	09:27
cosmo	if you want to know more specific differences, you should probably search maemo.org	09:28
rkc	cosmo: thanks..	09:28
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Stskeeps	morning	09:37
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cityLights	hi all, how can I take a screen shot in the N900?	09:39
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Stskeeps	ctrl-shift-p	09:39
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pronto	thats hard as hell to press xD	09:41
cityLights	yes this is hard to press	09:41
RST38bis	Ahhahaha, Offscr Backgammon crashes when it cannot win :))	09:41
RST38bis	sneaky	09:41
cityLights	but I just tried it, where should the picture be stored?	09:41
pronto	does it tell you that a screen shot was taken?	09:41
cityLights	no	09:41
pronto	oh	09:42
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pronto	then i probally just took like 20	09:42
cityLights	what?	09:42
pronto	nah only took two	09:42
fatal^	is there any way to override the "the file is to big to attach" when sending emails from the n900?	09:42
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ifreq	fatal^: it depends on your ISP. so answer is no. and smtp is no made for transferring big files.	09:44
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ifreq	fatal^: and if you somehow get it sent the next hop may deny it too.	09:45
fatal^	ifreq: I'm my own isp, so no... that's not it..... I'm not allowed to even add the attachments in the mail client on the n900....	09:45
fatal^	(haven't even gotten to the send part yet.)	09:45
ifreq	well if youre own isp you should know better abt big attachments :P	09:45
Proteous	SMTP IS NOT FTP PEOPLE	09:46
ifreq	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6465	09:46
povbot`	Bug 6465: Sending of large attachment denied: "File too large to be attached"	09:46
* Proteous breaks down crying		09:46
Proteous	it's for your own good	09:46
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Proteous	no one wants the 2000x3400 picture of your cat anyway	09:46
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ifreq	it has 15M filesize limit hardwired	09:47
ifreq	isnt that enuff??	09:47
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ifreq	imo its more than enuff for mobile users	09:47
fatal^	Proteous: people love when others dictate what they are allowed to do and what they really want..... that's how you get stuff sold!	09:47
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Proteous	fatal^: :)	09:47
fatal^	</irony>	09:47
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ifreq	fatal^: yeah and smtp is not ment for big file size transfers g	09:48
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fatal^	Proteous: and ftp sucks....	09:48
ifreq	use scp or <insert any secure websharing here>	09:48
ifreq	gtg to work cyas! ->	09:48
Proteous	using scp to throw files around between linux computers makes me smile every time	09:49
ifreq	Proteous: or rsync via ssh or anything :) g	09:49
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Proteous	people at work emailing 100mb files to someone who is in the next room becuase they don't want to figure out how to mount a share makes me cry	09:49
* Proteous installs "angry birds"		09:51
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fatal^	so, what's the proper GUI way to launch the gvfs backends?	09:55
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cityLights	Stskeeps: is there a diffrent way to make a screen shot?	09:59
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pupnik	i dont get how youse survive app testing without synergy on device	10:01
Stskeeps	cityLights: load applet, but really, this is the easiest	10:01
cityLights	right. I isntalled it - how to use it now?	10:01
cityLights	min. I think I got it	10:02
* lupine_85 installs cmake into sdk, compiles		10:06
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mrmg	synergy works on n900?	10:19
Stskeeps	worked on n8x0 i think	10:19
Stskeeps	hrw: maemo gtk+ is on gitorious now btw	10:20
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L0cutus	re	10:31
cehteh	mrmg: try x2x if you only need sharing between X servers	10:32
cehteh	much more resource friendly and easier to set up	10:32
cehteh	(needs no additional software on the n900)	10:32
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Anidel	I feel like snowed in today... :)	10:44
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auenf	Anidel, that would be hard here, it was 30+C	10:46
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flux	synergy is pretty nice, but I don't remember why I switched to it from x2x	10:46
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Anidel	eheh here in London is quite rare as well (I think).. but not this year looks like..	10:46
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pekuja	is there something wrong with the Ovi Store? I can't see any of the paid-for stuff	10:51
pekuja	I wanted to buy the full version of Angry Birds, but it's not there.	10:51
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Hukka	pekuja: Oh, hai	10:51
pekuja	Hukka: hai	10:51
Anidel	pekuja, is not there for me as well...	10:52
Hukka	pekuja: Ovi store is still beta on N900, I think	10:52
Hukka	I guess they have some release pressures from all the mounting rants on the nets	10:52
pekuja	Hukka: sure	10:52
Hukka	Uargh... HAM... "Operation in progress" when trying to load new stuff from Ovi. And what is the operation? Showing the message about a successfull installation...	10:54
pupnik	looking at the pace of FOSS, i wonder how many professional "man-hours" that ovi oevre represents	10:54
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flux	maybe they indeed had some architectural problem in providing paid apps?-)	10:55
pekuja	perhaps	10:56
pekuja	I did hear about someone saying that some paid content was available freely in the repos	10:56
pupnik	depends on the size and scale	10:56
pekuja	so maybe they didn't have their DRM quite figured out	10:57
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phr	how does that ovi map application compare with a typical cheap automotive gps?	10:59
mece	pekuja, yeah it was in the repo and available as apt-get install angrybirds-levelpack1	11:00
mece	so now it's removed until sorted I guess.	11:00
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`0660	phr, it's really basic	11:00
`0660	but works for most needs	11:01
phr	hmm.	11:01
phr	is there source (hah)?	11:01
`0660	you can search for places, and it shows you on a map and even displays a route	11:01
`0660	but that's about it	11:01
`0660	for now at least	11:01
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phr	thanks	11:03
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phr	how fast can i use the 5mp camera? can i program it to take a pic every 2 seconds, say ?	11:03
Hukka	phr: You mean with full resolution?	11:04
phr	yes	11:04
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phr	if it helps the subject distance will be approx. constant, so it doesn't have to AF	11:04
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lardman\|home	morning	11:08
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lardman\|home	anyone happen to know where that link to a page of MMS servers was located?	11:08
* lardman\|home tries to setup fMMS		11:08
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Anidel	lardman\|home, snowed in as well?	11:10
lardman\|home	http://www.activexperts.com/xmstoolkit/mmsclist/	11:10
lardman\|home	Anidel: yep :)	11:10
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Anidel	lardman\|home, :) me too	11:11
lardman\|home	Bathwick hill is immpassable, certainly without chains or studs	11:11
lardman\|home	not snowing any more though, forecast yesterday evening reckoned it would snow all day today too	11:12
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Anidel	lardman\|home, I could make it to work, but I fear being stuck there once I'll arrive.. and also.. WHEN will I arrive to the office ? :) so better not loose time and work from home.. cool	11:12
krig	Hey, if anyone have time/interest, I'm trying to get jamaendo promoted to extras.. need more testing though. Link: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/jamaendo/0.2.5-1	11:12
Anidel	it's still snowing here in London	11:12
lardman\|home	Anidel: you had that much in Londinium?	11:12
Anidel	lardman\|home, enough for us :)	11:12
Hukka	pekuja: Haven't seen you here before, just got you N900?	11:12
lardman\|home	Anidel: :)	11:12
Anidel	lardman\|home, this is Chiswick this morning: http://twitpic.com/xwc3w	11:12
phr	someone please tell me to not buy an n900. i can't afford it but i'm thinking about it obsessively ;)	11:13
pronto	phr: do what i did	11:13
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pronto	i flipped a coin, heads buy, tails dont	11:13
Anidel	and Jaffa just tweeted is goind back home	11:13
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pronto	my coin landed on heads	11:13
phr	:)	11:13
pronto	i'm not a proud owner of a n900	11:14
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pronto	now*	11:14
Anidel	pronto, you've used the Coin Toss app? :)	11:14
phr	it's not just the n900, but if i got it i'd be stupid to not get a data plan	11:14
Wolfie	phr: first step would be to leave the channel	11:14
phr	$$$$ every month	11:14
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pronto	lol	11:14
phr	wolfie, hee	11:14
lardman\|home	Anidel: nice :)	11:14
phr	but i have an n770, that runs maemo, doesn't that count? :)	11:14
Anidel	lardman\|home, :)	11:15
Wolfie	fair enough	11:15
Anidel	phr it's "770" :p	11:15
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phr	i never use the 770. there must be something interesting i can do with it	11:15
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phr	i was gonna use it for wifi cafes but i got a netbook instead. now i'm thinking of the 900 as a mini-netbook with a phone, probably an error	11:16
pronto	my favourte app that i found in the n900 is this:, flyn900 or something, it uses the accometer , and cacluclatse how high you can toss your n900 in the air	11:16
phr	lol	11:16
phr	and if you let go by accident you can measure directly ;)	11:17
pronto	granted to say, i'm not testing it :p	11:17
tybollt	phr: that's exactly what it is - a small computer w/ posibility to make phone calls...	11:17
phr	well i want a programmable high res camera too	11:17
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phr	the netbook doesn't have that	11:17
Anidel	phr: N900, iPhone, Android and Pre (at least) are nothing more than expensive phones if you don't get a companion data plan	11:17
cehteh	huh?	11:18
phr	n900 without a data plan = cool tiny linux box with a quite good camera	11:18
Anidel	phr: so if you plan to buy one, plan a data plan as well.. or just go for a "normal" phone	11:18
cehteh	at home i have wlan, dont need a data plan	11:18
Anidel	yeah, they give the best with a data plan...	11:18
Anidel	cehteh, "at home" exactly :)	11:18
Anidel	at home I use my netbook, when commuting or abroad.. the n900 is simply the best	11:19
mece	if you leave your home, you're not a proper nerd!	11:19
cehteh	i just have prepaied .. and dont use data connections much	11:19
Anidel	mece, true :D	11:19
mece	if you're hardcore, you don't need data.	11:19
mece	:)	11:19
tybollt	mece: that is to say only nerds will own the N900? Ouch... >:)	11:19
Arkenoi	still no update for me!	11:19
Anidel	if you don't need data, you may not really need the n900 :)	11:19
cehteh	exactly .. i needed the n900 to be able to phone and surf from my sofa and from the toilet	11:19
mece	tybollt, no, but the people on this channel....	11:20
mece	:)	11:20
Anidel	ah:D	11:20
phr	i feel like the n900 has bugs and that i should hold out for the n910... wasn't the n900 supposed to be step 4 of 5?	11:20
tybollt	mece: course, I know I am >:)	11:20
tybollt	well	11:20
cehteh	i doubt the n910 will have less bugs when released	11:20
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Anidel	I am as well, but not all the people are... and be realistic.. an N900 is underused if used only at home with wlan.	11:20
Anidel	phr: look at Nexus One bugs on 3G	11:21
lardman\|home	what image width do people use with MMS?	11:21
phr	whats nexus 1?	11:21
Anidel	and Android is been around for several years already on HTC Phones..	11:21
Anidel	phr: Google Phone	11:21
tybollt	the rumours have it the next maemi device will be a capacitive one... I have a hard time figuring how that will fly... If you want to use "real" webpages and not iphon:ish specially-crafted ones you pretty much have to have the stick and a resistive screen	11:21
cehteh	Anidel: relly i need an gps and camera but not much phone when leaving the house	11:21
Anidel	that's to say every phone every OS has bugs..	11:21
Corsac	lardman\|home: is there a standard?	11:21
Corsac	lardman\|home: i'd say something like 320x240 (or so)	11:22
Hukka	phr: Whoa, don't read the news?	11:22
cehteh	ok bit maps and agps .. but you dont need much data for that (consider that you can prefetch maps)	11:22
lardman\|home	tybollt: they said multitouch would proibablt be supported not that it would necessarily be capacative	11:22
lardman\|home	Corsac: thanks	11:22
Anidel	cehteh, that's you .. I do need it .. so yeah.. just need to say there are people who do, and people who don't.. but if someone needs to flip a coin, then he has to know, right?	11:22
tybollt	lardman\|home: ? multitouch resistive? This exist?	11:22
hrw	morning	11:22
cehteh	tybollt: yes	11:22
phr	i guess i saw something about the google phone but i want something hackable	11:22
hrw	Stskeeps: thx	11:22
phr	and i want the big camera	11:22
tybollt	cehteh: oi, didn't know, pardon my ignorance	11:23
Corsac	lardman\|home: just my humble opinion though	11:23
cehteh	but i guess they go capacitative because its a buzzword ... even if not better :(	11:23
Anidel	phr, n900 is the most hackable phone out there	11:23
Anidel	phr, and the closer to a real Linux distro on a phone out there	11:23
phr	anidel right, it's the only hi-end phone of any interest to me right now	11:23
Anidel	phr, I don't see anything else at all..	11:23
phr	i guess i could get a GSM card for a netbook...	11:24
tybollt	cehteh: is there a device out there that has that?	11:24
Anidel	phr, Google Phone and Pre are only based on Linux, but they aim to be phone for regular users, not hackable devices	11:24
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hrw	Anidel: openmoko phones are more hackable then n900	11:24
Anidel	I read N900 screen is a mix of capacitive and resistive, that's why people are able to turn the screen on if they put it next to a magnet	11:24
Hukka	phr, Anidel: And I suppose the moblin phones are around the corner now	11:24
Anidel	hrw, but they don't have that much power	11:24
hrw	Anidel: for n900 you have to wait for code drops from nokia to get info what is developed	11:25
Anidel	Hukka, wanna see how hackable are those.. we'll see.. but they are still around the corner, same for openmoko ones	11:25
* hrw wants n900 kernel git tree access		11:25
lardman\|home	hmm, so will fMMS scale my photo before sending it?	11:25
Anidel	hrw, so what?	11:25
cehteh	tybollt: nothing i know	11:25
Anidel	lardman\|home, I hope so :) I think it asks	11:25
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phr	openmoko is a pretty wimpy computer compared to the n900	11:26
hrw	Anidel: there are still closed components required to get Nxxx working ;(	11:26
Stskeeps	hrw: at least it's getting better with gitorious	11:26
konttori_nokia	lardman\|home, it's supposed to scale	11:26
lardman\|home	Anidel: yeah it does ok, thanks	11:26
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phr	and again, i'm pretty keen on using that 5mp camera	11:26
cehteh	Anidel: magnets dont affect apacitative screens .. but there is a magnet switch for the slide kiyboard which activates the screen	11:26
konttori_nokia	we really need to integrate fmms properly to the user flow.	11:26
Anidel	hrw, I know.. but why you woulnd't want those? I mean why you need to remove those to be able to hack?	11:26
konttori_nokia	e.g. add a sharing plugin that uses fmms	11:26
Anidel	cehteh, ah the switch is magnetic?	11:26
lardman\|home	hmm, people driving up the wrong side of the road	11:27
cehteh	less wear and problems with wear and dust	11:27
hrw	Anidel: because I may want to have total control on device?	11:27
Anidel	cehteh, didn't know that.. cool.. still I read the n900 screen is R-resistor, something like that if that even exists	11:27
cehteh	err ... - one wear :)	11:27
cehteh	dunno	11:27
cehteh	its very sensitive anyways	11:27
cehteh	i liked it	11:27
cehteh	well waiting for a new device :P	11:28
lardman\|home	konttori_nokia: yeah, having to setup your own APN is a pita	11:28
Anidel	hrw, so get a beagle board.. why would you want to change, say, the gps module? I mean I don't care if the driver that drives the hardware is closed source as long as they let me control it.. and the n900 is as open as it gets and it's improving..	11:28
lardman\|home	hmm, seems to have locked up for me anyway, Send button is blue & nothing's happening	11:28
cehteh	i really thing the resistive screen is awesome compared to capacitative ones	11:28
Anidel	konttori_nokia, a sharing plugin to send mms.. nice	11:28
hrw	Anidel: I have 3 beagleboards on desk	11:28
cehteh	but there exist compuund technologies which use both	11:28
tybollt	cehteh++	11:28
Anidel	lardman\|home, a friend of mine tested it and sent several mmses before realizing it was actually working :)	11:29
Stskeeps	konttori_nokia: think it's just a matter of pointing frals in the right direction :)	11:29
cehteh	but most this stuff is rather academic .. finally only price matters	11:29
Anidel	hrw, so you're a different beast :)	11:29
hrw	Anidel: one of them has expansion board which exists in ~20 copies and only 2 of them in Europe	11:29
phr	is that the usb socket on the left edge?	11:29
phr	http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/image-gallery/#3	11:29
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Anidel	hrw, I think you'll never see a phone like the one you want...	11:29
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tybollt	cehteh: to whom? I've spent so much money to find a good phone... n900 looking very much like it...	11:29
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Anidel	phr, is a microusb socket	11:30
hrw	Anidel: I have: 2x neo1973, nokia 770/n810/n900, sharp zaurus c760, atmel at91sam9263ek devboard, sim.one devboard, STEricsson NHK15 devboard, atmel NGW100 devboard, 3x beagleboards, 2x bug devices and few x86 devices	11:30
cehteh	for nokia .. making profit by using the cheapest (well hopefully still quality) parts	11:30
phr	they make profit on the $39.95 batteries !@#$^%&^* :)	11:30
Anidel	hrw, eheh as I told you, you're a totally different beast.. no one will ever built a phone for you	11:30
Anidel	cehteh, who else doesn't ?	11:31
phr	if i get one i'm gonna build an AA power pack for it	11:31
cehteh	phr: micro usb .. thats standard ,, but dont mix that with mini usb	11:31
Anidel	hrw, I saw the Neo at the nokia event in london last year.. a guy had it ant the N900 meet up event..	11:31
phr	the usb is on the same side as the camera lens? damn	11:32
phr	it's possible to power the 900 thru the usb, right?	11:32
phr	i mean is that how you charge it?	11:32
Anidel	I saw at CES a charger that gets its power from a WiFi signal.. pretty cool	11:32
konttori_nokia	lardman\|home, I think we could, as a community provide a pre-defined list of APNs for each operator.	11:32
cehteh	hehe yes .. i wished usb and headphone jack would be on the opposite side each	11:32
cehteh	but well :)	11:32
konttori_nokia	fmms could then start to use that db.	11:32
Anidel	phr you only charge it thru the usb	11:32
* RST38h moos		11:32
konttori_nokia	it could just get the operator from the device SIM card, and then use that to map to correct mms APN from the db	11:33
* Anidel moos back at RST38h		11:33
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phr	i'm thinking of putting a hunk of velcro in the blank area next to the lens	11:33
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phr	and sticking a 4aa battery pack there	11:33
X-Fade	konttori_nokia: I wonder if we can't just take the list nokia has for this?	11:33
X-Fade	konttori_nokia: They must have this data somewhere ;)	11:33
phr	110mm... its smaller than the 770	11:33
pronto	so who here acutly uses that Ovi thing?	11:33
phr	hmm, there is no tripod socket	11:34
phr	is there a suction cup clamp thingie to put it on your windshield for the gps?	11:34
Anidel	X-Fade, but that db has only one APN per carrier	11:35
phr	if the n900 lets me get rid of my digicam, phone, netbook, AND gps, it gets interesting...	11:35
X-Fade	Anidel: Obviously that is because the plain N900 only needs that.	11:35
Anidel	X-Fade, and doesn't hold the MMS APN and related settings.. not sure it could be expanded	11:35
X-Fade	Anidel: But I think this info is available on other nokia phones?	11:35
Anidel	X-Fade, not really true as a bug report showed there is need for more APNs for carrier even without counting the MMS one, but that's a different matter	11:36
cehteh	Anidel: there is a bug for that, please vote for it	11:36
Anidel	X-Fade, not sure, may be they get it from the network directly?	11:36
Anidel	cehteh, know that	11:36
Anidel	cehteh, I'm following it	11:36
X-Fade	Anidel: yeah, but we can work around that by just disconnecting, and reconnecting etc.	11:36
X-Fade	Anidel: Not pretty, but works.	11:36
tybollt	phr: yes... when the N get turn-by-turn ovi maps and a car-dashboard-mount it will be the ultimate device >:)	11:36
cehteh	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5791	11:36
povbot`	Bug 5791: Unable to set alternate APN	11:36
Anidel	X-Fade, yup	11:36
acidjazz	where can i read about hte new stuff in that last maemo patch??	11:37
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phr	if there's a dash mount i can probably hack a tripod socket onto it.. i want to use the 900 as an automated camera	11:37
X-Fade	Anidel: I guess concentrating on what we can do is the smart thing here ;)	11:37
Anidel	X-Fade, but still, probably there will be a need for a community provided db	11:37
Anidel	X-Fade, that's what I am trying to do.. if we can use that data from Nokia, fine.. but I doubt so	11:37
X-Fade	Anidel: Sure, can even be just a text file in a git somewhere ;)	11:37
X-Fade	Anidel: Where the app just downloads the file.	11:38
pronto	http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/ why is that no longer working?	11:38
Anidel	X-Fade, yes... and I like the idea of having it as a sharing plug-in as well	11:38
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X-Fade	Jaffa: Thanks for catorise. I like it ;)	11:39
phr	i ordered some crap from dealextreme earlier tonight... resisted the urge to toss one of their junky bl-5j clone batteries into the order (for the n900 that i don't have)	11:39
Anidel	whoot, Downloads section disappeard from maemo.org ???	11:39
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pronto	seems like it	11:39
Anidel	jaffa was on the train back home last time I've heard	11:39
Anidel	X-Fade, working on the maemo.org website ?	11:39
acidjazz	looks like theyre messing w/ their site	11:39
X-Fade	Anidel: I think there is a broken style somewhere. There is work going on, yes.	11:40
Anidel	okay...	11:40
X-Fade	Although it should not break obviously :)	11:40
Anidel	may be a small note on the main page stating there's work in progress and you might be experiencing issues...	11:40
Anidel	:p :)	11:40
lardman\|home	Anidel: check Google Latitude and see where Jaffa is? ;)	11:40
Anidel	right :)	11:41
Anidel	but I don't have him I think.. let me see	11:41
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Anidel	I hate the new Google home page fade-in effect	11:41
Anidel	I don't.. and, lardman\|home, your in an unknown location :)	11:42
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lardman\|home	will be updated soon	11:43
lardman\|home	hmm, where is Web located when using Jaffa's new menu organiser app?	11:43
lardman\|home	I should have been updated now Anidel	11:43
Anidel	yep it did	11:44
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lardman\|home	hmm, can't work out how to zoom to someone's location, not that Jaffa is actually showing anything anyway	11:46
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lardman\|home	ah, option not there for Jaffa	11:47
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phr	http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Nokia_N900_Gets_a_Firmware_Update/551-108659-580.html	11:47
konttori_nokia	X-Fade, could be. I can check if it's available. But I doubt we can publish it. There are probably contracts set between nokia and operators on this kind of information	11:48
X-Fade	konttori_nokia: Yeah, not sure about that either ;)	11:48
phr	what's this db you're discussing? i don't recognise the different acronyms	11:49
Anidel	I need to check if now the sharing APIs are public...	11:49
lardman\|home	It must also sometimes work over the air though, e.g. when I go abroad?	11:49
hrw	Jaffa: catorise roxx!	11:49
lardman\|home	hrw: can you see Web in there?	11:49
lardman\|home	konttori_nokia: or does each phone have a list of every possible mobile network, I can't see that happening	11:50
hrw	lardman\|home: only in All	11:50
Stskeeps	X-Fade: any opinion on http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/extras.png btw? (it seems like SSH keys are actually required to do extras web upload)	11:50
lardman\|home	hrw: ok, so I'm not going mad :)	11:50
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X-Fade	Stskeeps: Legacy. But you don't have to upload keys, you do have to accept the invitation though..	11:53
X-Fade	Stskeeps: In ths case the user didn't accept that yet.	11:54
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Stskeeps	X-Fade: hmm, okay	11:54
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Stskeeps	X-Fade: i guess my state (it was my account) was stuck somewhere then	11:55
Stskeeps	it would first allow me to continue after adding ssh key so	11:56
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X-Fade	Stskeeps: What if you do what the text says?	11:56
Stskeeps	X-Fade: it asks me to fill in ssh keys	11:57
Stskeeps	well, at least that's what it did last night	11:57
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Stskeeps	didn't take no keys for an answer (i think, was kinda late) and when i added keys it let me on	11:58
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X-Fade	Stskeeps: I think blablabla will work.	11:59
Stskeeps	k	11:59
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X-Fade	Stskeeps: But yeah, that needs to be made optional.	12:00
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hrw	lardman\|home: catorise needs few tweaks possible	12:09
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Arkenoi	where is my updaaate?	12:10
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alekseiko	Hi all!	12:11
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alekseiko	i have a trouble with wifi connection on my nokia n810	12:11
alekseiko	Could we help me...	12:12
mrmg	Hi guys	12:12
mrmg	Arkenoi: Reboot?	12:12
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Arkenoi	mrmg: done that at least twice	12:13
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mrmg	:(	12:13
alekseiko	Connectivity hasn't found new wifi networks	12:16
joppu	AndrewFBlack-Wor: pong	12:18
Stskeeps	morning joppu	12:18
Stskeeps	joppu: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/creative-use-of-madde-new-way-for-theme.html - just uploaded imagemagick to extras so the resulting themes should be possible to build in extras now :P	12:19
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hrw	Jaffa: s/alpha/default/g in catorise and better chance for users to get correct icons	12:20
hrw	I have digital nature ones	12:20
joppu	I'm kinda sick atm and tied to bed :/	12:23
joppu	Fortunately I have my n900 :D	12:24
pupnik9	lets see the power of python... a timer app - that counts down from a number to zero - requires close to a megabyte	12:24
Stskeeps	tablets are excellent for sick days	12:24
alterego	pupnik9: something that small would be better in C :P	12:25
hrw	lardman\|home: I think I know why there is no browser	12:25
alterego	Interpreters do tend to have a pretty high memory footprint from the get go.	12:25
lardman\|home	hrw: why's that?	12:26
hrw	moment - need to recheck	12:26
lardman\|home	one of the settings in the .desktop file?	12:26
* lardman\|home remembers the talk of how to hack phone onto each desktop		12:26
hrw	lardman\|home: there is no 'browser' package and catorise uses packages for checking section	12:27
adalal	anyone aware on how to get the n900 to work handsfree on a desktop computer (linux based)	12:27
lardman\|home	ah ok	12:28
lardman\|home	~curse Windows applications for stealing the focus	12:28
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Windows applications for stealing the focus !	12:28
hrw	lardman\|home: maemosec_certman_mimehandler, as-daemon are also skipped	12:28
joppu	Stskeeps: Is it possible to include maemo-sb-icon and the bug tracker in the scr package? These are kinda required for Extras distrobution,	12:28
rmrfchik	Arkenoi: lol hi	12:28
lardman\|home	hrw: ok	12:28
phr	python is pretty bloated	12:29
phr	there are some much smaller interpreters	12:29
phr	lua	12:29
phr	hedgehog lisp	12:29
phr	picolisp	12:29
phr	tcl :P	12:29
hrw	/usr/share/applications/hildon/browser.desktop is not present in package	12:29
Stskeeps	joppu: yes of course :) give me a patch or what i should insert?	12:29
rmrfchik	picolisp is avail on maemo?	12:29
hrw	hmm	12:29
phr	i doubt anyone has picolisp running on maemo but it should be easy to port	12:30
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alterego	I ported tinyscheme a while back.	12:31
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alterego	Never bothered packaging or uploading it though.	12:31
phr	i don't like lisp very much these days... i've been wanting to adapt an ML compiler to make hedgehog bytecode or something similar	12:31
alterego	Just fancied a play with it on the N810	12:31
pupnik9	at least we have the choice of what we want to install	12:31
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lardman\|home	hmm, snowing again here now :)	12:32
rmrfchik	ahhh. i remember this lame lisp. burn it	12:32
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hrw	found	12:33
Untouchab1e	Hi all	12:33
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phr	how big is tinyscheme? i wasn't familiar with it	12:33
Untouchab1e	I am still slightly confused as how to best get started on Maemo application development..	12:33
phr	gimp switched to it from guile!	12:34
phr	?!	12:34
Untouchab1e	Each time I get a totally different answer	12:34
hrw	Jaffa: you cannot just read desktop file... you need to parse it. browser.desktop has few ^Type= lines and only first one is Type=Application - rest are Type=Neutral and thats why it got skipped	12:34
joppu	Stskeeps: Well, here's my debian control file: http://joppu.pastebin.com/d61e45750	12:34
Untouchab1e	Anyone want to help me get started, or at least point me in a direction?	12:34
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rmrfchik	chicken scheme is amazing [on desktop]	12:35
rmrfchik	i switched from plt for hackign and it great	12:35
Stskeeps	hmm	12:37
Stskeeps	wasn't there some script that converted into XB-Maemo-Icon?	12:38
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Untouchab1e	Anyone?	12:38
Untouchab1e	Is this good reading? http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation	12:38
lardman\|home	whoa, whole desktop has rotated	12:39
lardman\|home	not supposed to do that is it?	12:39
hrw	$skip \|\|= /^Type=(.*)$/i && $1 !~ /^Application$/i;	12:40
hrw	perl magicians: how to reverse check?	12:40
Untouchab1e	:/	12:40
vesa	Untouchab1e: i'd just get the ubuntu vmware image and run that in vmware player	12:41
vesa	easiest way to get things set up	12:41
Untouchab1e	I got ubuntu up ;)	12:41
Untouchab1e	just wondering where to go from there	12:41
adeus	that's a good start	12:41
vesa	i haven't done any of that manual installing stuff	12:41
vesa	way too hard, image = copiable, backupable. just easy.	12:42
Trizt	anyone working on a alternative mail application for maemo5?	12:42
glass_	vesa: and less chance of messing your desktop	12:42
vesa	aye	12:42
Untouchab1e	so, yeah.. how do i get everything set up?	12:42
vesa	Trizt: there's claws... which is quite horrible at the moment on the n900	12:43
Untouchab1e	I am bit confused as that what I should use..	12:43
kirma	hmmh. idea of the day: application that runs when camera app is running - and draws overlay hint for orientation on viewfinder to say when camera is "properly aligned" (==houses don't lean one or another way on results, etc...)	12:43
kirma	shouldn't be exceedingly hard to implement	12:43
alterego	kirma: using accelerometer?	12:43
vesa	Untouchab1e: what do you run as your desktop?	12:43
kirma	exactly	12:43
alterego	neat idea	12:44
hrw	vesa: but at least claws works	12:44
Untouchab1e	vesa: Ubuntu? (Gnome)?	12:44
Trizt	vesa: okey, memory leaking thing like the default one?	12:44
kirma	detecting when camera viewfinder window is active might be small challenge though	12:44
vesa	Untouchab1e: if you're good using your desktop for development then follow the instructions you posted. should get you started.	12:44
vesa	Untouchab1e: just saying if you run osx or windows or otherwise don't want your desktop to get wonky i'd put my money on using a vmware image.	12:45
joppu	Stskeeps: Yeah, it's Base64 encoded	12:45
vesa	it's all personal preference	12:45
vesa	Trizt: the default one isn't perfect but atleast it doesn't need a stylus =)	12:46
joppu	http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_packaging#Displaying_an_icon_in_the_Application_Manager_next_to_your_package	12:46
Stskeeps	joppu: could be nice to automate it so	12:46
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vesa	hrw: it might work but it's horrible to use.	12:46
Stskeeps	joppu: actually within the template there's a place for icon	12:46
Stskeeps	at least when i checked before	12:47
Untouchab1e	vesa I have always been running Ubuntu on this computer ;)	12:47
Trizt	vesa; I get out of memory problems constantly and it don't manage to fetch mail from my inbox, keeps on for all time until run out of ram	12:47
Untouchab1e	thats not the problem..	12:47
joppu	Stskeeps: Yeah, but that is just for the theme selection template, the XB-icon is for HAM	12:47
Untouchab1e	but I am just slightly confused over the development environment.. Gtk, Hildon, etc..	12:48
vesa	Trizt: my only gripe is that the updates happen when it feels like it. maybe. sometimes it has a hard time fetching the folders of imap accounts etc. but mostly it works.	12:48
Untouchab1e	Like, when I developed Android apps, I just downloaded the SDK and used Eclipse, and for my WinMo apps, I use Visual Studio along with the compact .net framework	12:48
hrw	vesa: switching from Symbian to Maemo5 made me mailless	12:48
Untouchab1e	but with the N900, I cant really get the hang of what to use	12:48
alterego	Untouchab1e: the SDK	12:49
andre__	Untouchab1e: Gtk, Hildon are just a toolkit. WinMo also has a toolkit, but simply no name for it :-P	12:49
Untouchab1e	yeah, downloading and installing the SDK is simple enough, but it would be nice with some kind of visual tool to handle the GUI	12:49
Trizt	vesa; is there any way to disable it, when it's running it draws like 60-90% of the cpu	12:49
andre__	isn't there MADDE?	12:49
alterego	Untouchab1e: how do you mean? What GUI?	12:50
Untouchab1e	let me rephrase then, is there some kind of Eclipse/Visual Studio equivalent that I can use to make the GUI design easier instead of coding it.. (GUI of the app)	12:50
Untouchab1e	oh, and Qt?	12:50
alterego	Untouchab1e: if you're using Qt, then QtDesigner, if you're using Gtk, then you might be able to use glade	12:50
Untouchab1e	ok..	12:50
lupine_85	.glade files are cross-platform, thankfully	12:51
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alterego	There is no eclipse integration of those tools as far as I know.	12:51
lupine_85	Just make sure you use Gtk::Builder	12:51
Untouchab1e	so, if I have the SDK + QtDesigner, Im good to go?	12:51
lupine_85	ho de hum, no ipv6 support?	12:51
alterego	Untouchab1e: well, you're ready to go, I don't know how good you are ::P	12:51
frals	<Stskeeps> konttori_nokia: think it's just a matter of pointing frals in the right direction :) <- correct, im open for suggestions ;)	12:51
lupine_85	that's... disappointing	12:51
Untouchab1e	the coding itself shouldnt be a problem... just setting up is what is bothering me	12:51
lardman\|home	frals: the To: button doesn't seem to do anything (e.g. open the contact db), is that right?	12:52
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lupine_85	anyone touched the N900's kernel by any chance?	12:52
frals	lardman: yeah, not implemented yet - python is missing the osso-abook wrappers but ive figured out how to do it now	12:52
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adeus	qtdesigner is dead	12:53
adeus	qtcreator	12:53
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lardman\|home	frals: cool	12:54
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lupine_85	yep, complete lack of AF_INET6 support	12:56
lupine_85	despite compiling busybox with ping6	12:56
lupine_85	weird	12:56
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konttori_nokia	frals, we were discussing that it would be great to make a sharing plugin.	12:59
konttori_nokia	and that it would also make sense if community would create a database with the operator settings	12:59
lopz	ep :]	13:00
frals	yeah those would be nice to add - esp the database with operator settings	13:01
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frals	also atm im hoping the "sharing plugin commandline" or what the project is called produces something soon, as i got a cli sendscript which could use and that would solve the sharing part :)	13:03
konttori_nokia	and that you would retrieve from sim card the operator codes and use that to map to the db	13:04
konttori_nokia	frals, sounds great!	13:04
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hrw	lardman\|home: want to check my ver of catorise?	13:08
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apol	i have my n900 rebooting all the time and the NSU doesn't detect my device. how should i do that?	13:11
apol	(i want to flash it and its in a reboot loop)	13:11
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ifreq	google n900 usb boot mode	13:11
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frals	anyone know how to make the N900 autoconnect to a specfici GPRS connection?	13:18
frals	since people have started complaining it autoconnects to their MMS one instead of the "Internet" one after adding another with my program ;o	13:18
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X-Fade	frals: Alphabetical order? :)	13:19
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frals	I don't think it is, since it prefers "Orange MMS" over "Orange" (from what I've gathered, I could be wrong though)	13:20
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apol	ifreq: when I run in usb boot mode NSU still doesn't find my device :S	13:22
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hrw	http://hrw.pastebin.ca/1749489 for those who use Catorise by Jabba	13:22
hrw	this is fixed version	13:22
hrw	http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2010/01/12/catorise_auto_organise_n900_applications#c46567	13:24
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apol	ifreq: anybody knows how can I flash a n900 if i just have usb mode?	13:31
apol	NSU doesn't detect it	13:32
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xorAxAx	hrw: is that script up in the repos somewhere?	13:34
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Angry Birds on iTunes store for 59p with all levels, no fair :(	13:35
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frals	this stuff is a tad worrying http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37107&page=13	13:38
hrw	xorAxAx: yes - catorise in extras-devel. It was written by Jaffa and I just did some fixes	13:38
xorAxAx	hrw: then push your changes upstream :)	13:39
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hrw	xorAxAx: waiting for Jaffa to wakeup	13:39
hrw	xorAxAx: I added comment on his blog with fixed version so he got notify	13:40
xorAxAx	yeah	13:40
Stskeeps	frals: better than the smartq5/7 forums that put a MID into a friggen x-ray machine..	13:40
Stskeeps	:P	13:40
frals	lol	13:40
hrw	now I am checking how much things changed in 51.1 without 51.1	13:40
Gadgetoid_mbp	frals: I think he's just a touch paranoid	13:41
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frals	oh link wasnt pointing to the right post, at the bottom of the page someone managed to break his/her connector on a sales unit	13:43
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Gadgetoid_mbp	there's always someone frals	13:44
frals	yeah true	13:44
xorAxAx	hrw: cant find it in -devel	13:46
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Gadgetoid_mbp	That said, I might grind my plug	13:48
Gadgetoid_mbp	a	13:48
hrw	xorAxAx: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2010/01/12/catorise_auto_organise_n900_applications	13:48
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ccooke	Morning	13:50
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rmrfchik	hmm, icon pc-connectivity manager has disappered from main toolbar (where clock reside)	13:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	Mah, iPhone 3Gs loads Angry Birds considerably faster than the N900.. damn it and its single tasking cheatery	13:52
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Wolfie	i wish the plane game would be less choppy	13:59
Wolfie	it's not like it would be crysis...	13:59
cehteh	overclock your gpu :P	14:00
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xorAxAx	ruskie: why the tmproot bind mount?	14:01
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pekuja	cehteh: I'm guessing the game doesn't use the GPU	14:02
* timeless_mbp looks for a finn		14:02
pekuja	all of the Offscreen games are terribly choppy	14:03
timeless_mbp	hi pekuja , your country and your compatriots suck.	14:03
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timeless_mbp	:)	14:03
pekuja	timeless_mbp: thanks	14:03
timeless_mbp	but hopefully you knew that ;-)	14:03
pekuja	timeless_mbp: you seem to hail from a .fi host yourself	14:04
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timeless_mbp	yes, i'm a victim	14:04
ruskie	xorAxAx, to be able to remove the old data that's still in place... it's optional really	14:04
pekuja	timeless_mbp: you chose to come here	14:04
pekuja	timeless_mbp: I was born here. I had no choice.	14:04
ruskie	without it you'll just have the same space as before	14:04
timeless_mbp	i was misled	14:04
Untouchab1e	While installing the SDK, (using the python script), i got an error midway in the installation	14:04
Untouchab1e	Failed to install Nokia Binaries, giving up	14:04
timeless_mbp	yeah, you get sympathy from me :)	14:04
xorAxAx	ruskie: i dont understand	14:04
Untouchab1e	any ideas?	14:04
ruskie	xorAxAx, you do a cp not a mv	14:04
ruskie	so the old files remain in /usr	14:04
Untouchab1e	File "./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py", line 2606, in __taskInstallNokiaBins	14:04
Untouchab1e	raise Exception("Failed to install Nokia Binaries, giving up")	14:04
Untouchab1e	Exception: Failed to install Nokia Binaries, giving up	14:04
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pekuja	timeless_mbp: not that I'm sure what your problem with Finland is	14:05
timeless_mbp	pekuja: total lack of understanding of the concept of 'service'	14:05
pekuja	timeless_mbp: unless maybe it's the cold weather, or the introverted people	14:05
ruskie	xorAxAx, once you reboot to the new setup you might want to remove the old files... to gain access to them the bind will give you access	14:05
timeless_mbp	i just spent time dealing w/ Welho "customer service"	14:05
timeless_mbp	their menu starts with "press 2 for English"	14:05
timeless_mbp	so i press 2	14:05
timeless_mbp	and after a while of waiting, i get someone who answers the phone in Finnish	14:05
ruskie	pres 4 for Svahilli	14:05
xorAxAx	ruskie: ah, the bind mount reveals the real root directory?	14:06
pekuja	timeless_mbp: yeah, Welho is obviously representative of the whole country	14:06
pekuja	timeless_mbp: did the person understand English?	14:06
ruskie	xorAxAx, yup	14:06
timeless_mbp	and whose command of the English language is insufficient to offer customer support	14:06
timeless_mbp	pekuja: understand? yes	14:06
ruskie	xorAxAx, since /usr is then mounted over with the modified one	14:06
xorAxAx	ruskie: should the last step be done after or before the reboot?	14:06
timeless_mbp	could speak / command the language? no	14:06
pekuja	timeless_mbp: :-/	14:06
timeless_mbp	failed to explain "could you please give me the pin code so the service agent can enter your apartment complex"	14:06
Untouchab1e	anyone?	14:06
murrayc	Has anyone else seen a few corrupt pixels around the x window title button?	14:06
ruskie	xorAxAx, post reboot	14:06
murrayc	I'm getting it on my new N900.	14:07
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: iiiiääääiiii perkele iiiii#äääääiiii	14:07
xorAxAx	ruskie: why?	14:07
timeless_mbp	the words came out so garbled it sounded like a request about an external window	14:07
ruskie	else you might destabilise the running system	14:07
timeless_mbp	in fact, i think she mentioned 'external' and 'window'	14:07
ruskie	because apps might have stuff open in /usr	14:07
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xorAxAx	ruskie: indeed, open dirs	14:07
ruskie	timeless_mbp, maybe it was babelfish translation ;o)	14:08
xorAxAx	ruskie: now package it and push it to -devel :-)	14:08
ruskie	xorAxAx, lol... that sounds insane	14:08
xorAxAx	ruskie: why, if nokia manages do perform complex SSU, you can also repartition :)	14:08
ruskie	I might have something else for -devel sometime... but need to finish writting it up first	14:08
xorAxAx	what else? :)	14:09
ruskie	it's a secret	14:09
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andre__	murrayc: I've seen this too in 1.2009.44-1, haven't seen in later internal releases	14:09
ruskie	xorAxAx, as confident as I am in my shell scripting skills, I'm well aware that there would be users that wouldn't know what do actually do with it	14:09
timeless_mbp	ruskie: babelfish would have been better	14:09
* timeless_mbp grumbles		14:09
timeless_mbp	my DVR finished scanning	14:09
timeless_mbp	the dialog now says:	14:10
murrayc	andre__: Thanks. It must be some strange combination of the software version versus the hardware version. I don't get it with my loan N900 with the same software version.	14:10
timeless_mbp	No Channel	14:10
timeless_mbp	Press OK	14:10
ruskie	hmm pin to enter appartment complex	14:10
timeless_mbp	ruskie: a 4 digit sequence (typically) to enter on an (optional) keypad at the front entrance	14:10
murrayc	andre__: http://www.flickr.com/photos/murrayc/4271546396/	14:11
timeless_mbp	it's fairly common in Finland, or at least in Helsinki and its suburbs	14:11
ruskie	gimme a single-biometric scanner and a chip card and it would probably be quite decent security	14:11
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Stskeeps	ruskie: fairly common in .pl too it seems	14:11
Stskeeps	well, apartment number + pin	14:11
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ruskie	haven't seen it here as of yet	14:11
andre__	murrayc: core sgx issues IIRC, in several places (also screen calibration and New event button in calendar in 42-11)...	14:11
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murrayc	andre__: So software?	14:12
andre__	murrayc, yes, definitely	14:13
timeless_mbp	ruskie: the idea isn't biometrics	14:13
timeless_mbp	it's to allow random unknown people access	14:13
timeless_mbp	however it isn't onetime keys	14:13
timeless_mbp	so it's basically Security Theater done wrong	14:13
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ruskie	timeless_mbp, I meant the general idea of decent security is: something you are(biometrics), something you have(key/chipcard/other token) and something you know(pin/password/etc...)	14:14
murrayc	andre__: Thanks. Then I don't need to send it back.	14:14
timeless_mbp	ruskie: that isn't the point here	14:14
timeless_mbp	actually, i have no idea what the heck thepoint is	14:14
timeless_mbp	the idea that a lady over the phone would ask me for the pin to my apt so that she could give it to a contracting agency	14:15
timeless_mbp	which would then give it to a dispatcher	14:15
timeless_mbp	which would then give it to a contractor	14:15
timeless_mbp	....	14:15
woglinde	iris control with the backcam	14:15
woglinde	haha	14:15
timeless_mbp	it isn't like they'll tell me in advance which idiot is coming	14:15
ruskie	we tend to give a spare key to the postman so he can get to the mailboxes... other than that... nobody else has any business coming in...	14:15
timeless_mbp	here there are ~4 extra keys locked outside behind their own individual tumblers	14:16
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timeless_mbp	so the postman can use his master key to unlock the tumbler to retrieve our apt key, and get in	14:16
ruskie	ahh one one locked in a box for the electrical company	14:16
timeless_mbp	when he leaves, he returns the key to the tumbler and locks it	14:16
timeless_mbp	at least, that's the theory	14:16
DocScrutinizer51	woglinde: (iris recog) we needed to adopt NASA immage processing techniques to put this to work ;-P	14:18
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zash	woglinde: what?	14:19
murrayc	What's the default "lock code" on the N900? I need it to restore the settings on my loan N900 before sending it back.	14:20
Stskeeps	murrayc: 12345 i think	14:20
murrayc	Stskeeps: Yeah. Thanks. I had only tried 1234.	14:20
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murrayc	I notice that it doesn't delete accounts.	14:21
Stskeeps	eMMC flash?	14:21
murrayc	oh maybe it does. now it's rebooting.	14:22
Stskeeps	that's at least what i plan to do when returning mine	14:22
hrw	murrayc: nokia strats requesting n900s back?	14:22
mece	Stskeeps, Amazing, I've got the same combination on my luggage!	14:22
woglinde	zash only joking	14:22
Anidel	nice you can zoom in Angry Birds	14:23
murrayc	hrw: Not of me, but I want to send it away to avoid the confusion of having 2.	14:23
murrayc	Stskeeps: Yeah. Guess so.	14:23
woglinde	hrw the summit n900's	14:23
woglinde	only 2 months left or so	14:23
Anidel	I hope they'd The Pig Revenge :)	14:23
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timeless_mbp	having two is handy at times	14:25
* timeless_mbp misses having two		14:25
\|Night\|	hey, how is the GPS on the Nokia N900	14:25
\|Night\|	is it a turn by turn gps?	14:25
* Anidel misses having three		14:25
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: i am kinda pondering to get two, one for own usage, one for development	14:25
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timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: i like: one for me, one for whomever is with me	14:26
timeless_mbp	it makes demos much easier	14:26
andre__	Stskeeps, it's helpful for comparing issues between versions too :)	14:26
Anidel	\|Night\|, gps is good, Ovi Maps gives directions, doesn't guide you, but Sygic about to relaese one	14:26
Stskeeps	then again i should find money on the company budget for a zoom2 too, hrm	14:26
woglinde	Night	14:26
woglinde	ups	14:26
timeless_mbp	andre__: it also helps having one that can run Bounce Evolution	14:26
timeless_mbp	since the one i had recently didn't	14:26
kirma	\|Night\|: unfortunately not, at least yet.	14:26
* Stskeeps sighs a little and continues with polish homework		14:26
timeless_mbp	that made demos suck	14:26
woglinde	stskeeps why zoom2?	14:26
\|Night\|	kk kirma	14:26
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\|Night\|	when google fixes google maps for the N900	14:27
\|Night\|	it will work	14:27
hrw	Stskeeps: what was given today?	14:27
zash	woglinde: but, focus control with a cam would be cool	14:27
\|Night\|	lets hope that soon	14:27
kirma	with the browser and maemo-geolocation, one could implement a web-based navigator if one wanted, though	14:27
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hrw	\|Night\|: gmaps do not cache ;(	14:27
\|Night\|	i have came down to eather NOkia N900 or HTC HD2	14:27
Stskeeps	hrw: atm having fun with feminium/neutrum/masculium	14:27
timeless_mbp	\|Night\|: you can install a -location addon for microb	14:27
\|Night\|	cant seam to decide	14:27
Stskeeps	(sp)	14:27
timeless_mbp	hrw: gmaps can cache, if you enable disk cache	14:27
Stskeeps	woglinde: cos all the equipment i would need for a beagle would be worse than the cost of a zoom2	14:28
RST38h	Famed Pentagon wildcard boffinry outfit DARPA issued a stark message today. According to the military crazytech bureau, America faces a crippling shortage of mad scientists - in particular, of mad computer scientists - in the near future, and only drastic action in the US educational system can rectify this.	14:28
hrw	timeless_mbp: o.. did not found that in s60 one	14:28
RST38h	(omg are they gonna legalize hard drugs?!? =))	14:28
kirma	maps.google.com/maps/m does understand about geolocation on my n900...	14:28
timeless_mbp	hrw: i mean Browser on the n900	14:28
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\|Night\|	whats the "best" phone N900 or HTC HD2	14:28
hrw	timeless_mbp: I thought about gmaps app not site	14:28
Stskeeps	\|Night\|: we're horribly biased in here	14:28
hrw	\|Night\|: nokia 3210 beats both	14:29
\|Night\|	as are msot ppl Stskeeps	14:29
timeless_mbp	\|Night\|: what Stskeeps said	14:29
chollya	Hi. Anyone tried navit on n900?	14:29
\|Night\|	thats the problem with Windmoes Mobile	14:29
SpeedEvil	\|Night\|: Does a linux computer - freely hackable - in your pocket interest you? If so - that's a plus on the n900 and almost no other phone.	14:29
Stskeeps	\|Night\|: i love my n900 and i think you would love yours like your own child. :P	14:29
\|Night\|	^^	14:30
\|Night\|	i have no plans to get a child i the next lets say 100 years	14:30
timeless_mbp	\|Night\|: darwin says you're helping get out of the gene pool	14:30
hrw	\|Night\|: so get both	14:30
mece	LOL	14:30
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\|Night\|	hrw not spening 900 USD on phones	14:30
Stskeeps	900? eh? :P	14:31
Stskeeps	isn't it like 450 these days?	14:31
hrw	\|Night\|: use coin?	14:31
mece	but two phones...	14:31
\|Night\|	norway its 520	14:31
hrw	Stskeeps: n900+hd2 = 900	14:31
\|Night\|	620	14:31
\|Night\|	exoluding taxes	14:31
\|Night\|	-	14:31
\|Night\|	i want a SCan. keybord so no use ordering a US mod.	14:31
Stskeeps	you don't want a scan keyboard	14:31
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Stskeeps	trust me on that	14:32
mece	\|Night\|, I think you're in the wrong chatroom to ask this question.	14:32
mece	\|Night\|, the keyboard cost 10€	14:32
\|Night\|	Stskeeps : Scandinavian keybord?	14:32
Stskeeps	\|Night\|: yeah	14:32
Stskeeps	\|Night\|: i'm danish and i definately don't want the scandinavian one. :P	14:32
\|Night\|	dont wanna fuck the warrenty with opening the phone op	14:32
timeless_mbp	\|Night\|: you really don't want the non english keyboard	14:32
\|Night\|	up	14:32
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Stskeeps	(cursor key stuff)	14:33
\|Night\|	ah	14:33
\|Night\|	so they are differnt placed	14:33
hrw	\|Night\|: no, they are missing	14:33
kirma	imho, nordic keyboard is quite acceptable for my use (hint: I don't use the phone to write code)	14:34
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Stskeeps	afternoon ptlo	14:34
\|Night\|	wtf	14:34
ptlo	heya	14:34
kirma	maybe game use would be problematic though	14:34
* DocScrutinizer51 curses German kbd layout		14:35
ruskie	omg bug 176 is resolved fixed	14:36
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176 Ogg Vorbis support out of the box	14:36
range	Fixed in Harmattan!	14:36
Stskeeps	O_x	14:36
range	:)	14:36
* Stskeeps watches pigs flying outside		14:36
range	Probably a cold day in hell ...	14:37
ruskie	we already had a cold day in hell	14:37
ruskie	the day Micros~1 released code under the GPL	14:37
ShadowJK	did anyone see satan is on twitter now? he says he's freezing his ass off	14:37
\|Night\|	ill pick up NOkia N900 l8ter 2day	14:37
\|Night\|	:)	14:37
thresh	(001	14:37
\|Night\|	found a store that has it	14:37
\|Night\|	does it play HD movies any? (mkv)	14:38
ShadowJK	interesting statistics... "mobile data", average per user per month: 1.5 gigabyte (finland)	14:38
thresh	0n133 33ph U 7311 1t $0	14:38
thresh	fear my leet skills.	14:38
Wolfie	ShadowJK: I would imagine the mobile internet dongles would explain those	14:39
kirma	btw: is there any sort of clarification on getting harmattan on N900? or is it practically open still?	14:39
Wolfie	those things you stick into your usb-port, to get 3g connectivity	14:39
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ShadowJK	it plays h264 baseline, and xvid/divx/asp/mpeg4 among other things, max resolution 800x480	14:39
ShadowJK	Wolfie, sure. I've done 30 gigs in a month myself :-)	14:39
glass_	Wolfie: plenty of people hit several hundred/gigs without dun use	14:39
glass_	yeh, just leave torrents on	14:39
glass_	:p	14:39
kirma	ShadowJK: where are those stats?	14:39
glass_	and updates and whatever	14:40
Stskeeps	kirma: best way to make it happen is by contributing to mer/n900, if there's going to be an official version, who knows	14:40
ShadowJK	kirma, "Tietokone" arrived in my mailbox today :P	14:40
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ShadowJK	Hm, the statistics on my N900 says 1.80gigabyte since 4th december.. no DUN use	14:40
kirma	ShadowJK: hmmh	14:40
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Wolfie	ShadowJK: that sounds like a lot...	14:41
kirma	my bill for last month stated 1.4 gigabytes, and I didn't have N900 all that time	14:41
range	And bug 2527 got closed, too.	14:41
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2527 Support FLAC out of the box	14:41
kirma	with E90, it used to be <300 megabytes per month	14:41
Stskeeps	range: scary shit. did i wake up in bizarro maemo world today?	14:41
range	Stskeeps: Tomorrow will be the day when they say that Harmattan won't work on the n900 :)	14:42
Stskeeps	range: probably	14:42
ruskie	or even better	14:42
ruskie	it won't work on the following 2 devices :)	14:42
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ShadowJK	lol	14:42
ruskie	though that might actually be an improvement	14:43
kirma	one thing that they upgrade on next device generation must be the root flash capacity...	14:43
Stskeeps	ruskie: nah "Harmattan project shut down by Nokia lawyers"	14:43
SpeedEvil	kirma: I don't see that as important at all	14:43
SpeedEvil	kirma: RAM is _vastly_ more important	14:43
ruskie	Stskeeps, that's easy to solve with a shotgun ;)	14:43
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ruskie	kirma, no they should just do some prope mounts and so on	14:43
Trizt_	kirma: so how much do you have to pay for the 1.4g?	14:43
SpeedEvil	kirma: rootfs issues are dealt with by sanely handling the emmc	14:43
kirma	I could wish for "hacker edition" version of harmattan that could be squeezed into N900, but in non-hacker-friendly way (full reinstall and stuff probably)	14:43
kirma	I mean, I don't assume anything fancier to happen	14:44
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SpeedEvil	kirma: there is no way at all to upgrade RAM.	14:44
SpeedEvil	(well - easily)	14:44
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kirma	Trizt: 20 euros per month for 1 Mbps connection	14:44
Trizt_	okey, thought you got a mega bill	14:45
ruskie	hmm I got to 700mb in the last month on the data	14:45
kirma	if harmattan is dramatically more memory heavy than fremantle, I'm really sort of disappointed	14:45
* ShadowJK pays 10E per month... and sometimes gets >5mbit/s.. I think ISP/operator must've forgot to put a throttle :-)		14:45
ruskie	but I pay 18eur/month for 20GB/month no speed limit(or guarantee at that ;)	14:46
ruskie	and I had the n900 since the 3rd of december :)	14:46
kirma	I downgraded from 2 Mbps to 1 couple years ago when I didn't see over 1 practically ever, but now I get that one megabit pretty much consistently everywhere I go, so increasing might make sense again	14:46
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pekuja	ShadowJK: or they have some "try full speed for free for a month" thing that you didn't know you had	14:47
ruskie	kirma, this on mobile connection?	14:47
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ShadowJK	oh that could be it	14:47
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kirma	ruskie: definetly. home I have 100/10... for 20 euros :I	14:47
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pekuja	ShadowJK: I signed up for mobile internet a while ago and found the same thing. Then I noticed that they had some campaign going that gives me three months of full speed.	14:47
ruskie	hmm	14:48
ruskie	we don't get per speed pkgs yet	14:48
ruskie	only so much and much download per month	14:48
pekuja	kirma: nice	14:48
ShadowJK	It's "MegaDataEtu" from Saunalahti.. it was a special offer many years ago... originally "unlimited" speed, but then at some point they revised it and put a 2mbit limit on it when the network's hsdpa capacity grew	14:48
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pekuja	ShadowJK: ah, I've heard of that one. I wish I had it :-P	14:48
Trizt_	kirma: thats a nice price, myself have 30/30 for 42€/month	14:49
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kirma	trizt_: house deal, really... otherwise, if it were even available, it would probably be closer to 50 euros.	14:50
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* Trizt_ nods		14:50
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Trizt	Hmm... easier to type on a big keyboard	14:50
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Trizt	I miss a grid system when placing out icons on the n900 desktop	14:53
pekuja	me too	14:53
Corsac	agrid	14:53
Corsac	(:)	14:53
pekuja	I also want to be able to organize my applications menu	14:53
Corsac	pekuja: grab catorize	14:53
Trizt	I did edit the hildo config file and create .directory-files	14:54
kirma	grid wouldn't really need to be fixed on the background, but more like snap-into-neighborhood thing	14:54
Trizt	but I guess I will loose those with next update, damn when will it be released	14:54
kirma	I must say I'm slightly surprised by the fact I have something like 60 applications installed on my N900 now	14:55
kirma	even if half of them are practically unused	14:55
\|Night\|	is there a working spotify (with cache) for N900?	14:55
pekuja	Corsac: catorize?	14:55
SpeedEvil	kirma: only 45ish here	14:56
Trizt	there was some tool using despotify as base	14:56
kirma	in contrast with E90, where I had maybe three that I used in addition to preinstalled stuff (and out of those, 95% of use was putty use)	14:56
pekuja	Corsac: I'm guessing you misspelled that. I can't find it	14:56
Nitial	pekuja: catorise	14:56
* Trizt has only tools he will be using, or think he will use		14:56
niekt0	I just experienced https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6460, anyone else?	14:56
povbot`	Bug 6460: Problems with extras-devel repository on N900 ("No Hash entry in Release file")	14:56
Trizt	\|Night\|; I think you need to add the extras-devel to find the tool, not sure if it caches	14:57
jebba	niekt0: this happens frequently. just "try again" and have patience! though they are moving the repos today, supposedly	14:57
Corsac	pekuja: oops, sorry	14:57
SpeedEvil	kirma: I use on a regular basis - xchat, eggtimer, weightjinni - though it doesn't work right I'm trying to debug, fuelpad I would use if I was using the car regularly, packagerate I would use if it worked, htop regularly, recorder (audio) angrybirds, fbreader	14:57
kirma	Trizt: with simple installation, one may try even those that are not apparently super-useful. of course being too easy to install arbitary software might be a risk, too...	14:57
X-Fade	jebba: Probably tomorrow, as it takes a while for dns changes etc.	14:57
SpeedEvil	oh - supertux, enigma, osm2go	14:58
kirma	camera alignment helper really sounds like a thingie that could be useful, only if I'd care to start developing ;)	14:58
Trizt	kirma; yeah, true, but I never installed everything on my Gentoo box, so I don't think I will do that on the n900	14:58
jebba	good to know. i can't wait :)	14:58
SpeedEvil	kirma: plus less, tcpdump and lots of that sort of stuff	14:58
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Trizt	I wish I could uninstall one of the default apps	14:59
X-Fade	jebba: Me neither. Just a few last checks. But looking good.	14:59
kirma	== acceleration-sensor based overlay on camera viewfinder that would show when horizon is properly aligned	14:59
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SpeedEvil	kirma: I want a compass too - but that requires hardware mods alas	14:59
SpeedEvil	kirma: really simple hardware mods - but still	14:59
* Trizt wants an offline gps map system		15:00
pekuja	Corsac: catorise sounds like just what I was looking for. thanks :-)	15:00
SpeedEvil	Trizt: osm2go! :)	15:00
kirma	compass would be fancy, but the camera alignment is plain software addition	15:00
SpeedEvil	(not really)	15:00
SpeedEvil	kirma: indeed	15:00
alterego	Compass: turn on GPS, walk a few meters in one direction :P	15:01
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KenYoung	Compass: Use orrery	15:01
alterego	Heh	15:01
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SpeedEvil	alterego: yeah - it doesn't work very well in most places though.	15:03
rkc_	Hi.. I am debugging the helloworld app with sdbox, it llooks like the signal is not emitted when i press helloworld button..."m_button_helloworld.signal_activate().connect( sigc::mem_fun(*this, &MyWindow::on_menu_helloworld));" is how the signal is connected to the slot	15:03
rkc_	any idear?	15:03
SpeedEvil	alterego: and for openstreetmaps, camera would be very handy.	15:03
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SpeedEvil	alterego: trying to map from a point, where you've taken a panorama of pictures, it's much easier if you can see the orientation of the pics	15:03
alterego	Yeah	15:04
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: recorder borks after 2GB of recorded audio ;-/	15:04
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: ...	15:04
alterego	Probably not recoder's fault. I don't think the N900 has largefile support.	15:04
DocScrutinizer51	yup	15:04
SpeedEvil	It can certainly write to 4G files	15:05
SpeedEvil	as that's what my latpop image grew to on the vfat before it died	15:05
DocScrutinizer51	VFAT issue	15:05
DocScrutinizer51	?	15:05
SpeedEvil	I haven't directly tried on the new /home/user/data - but I suspect it will work fine	15:05
SpeedEvil	yes	15:05
SpeedEvil	2G is however a largefile/author not thinking about it issue	15:06
Trizt	why didn't they pick a real file system?	15:06
Stskeeps	mass storage..	15:06
Stskeeps	:P	15:06
villager	Trizt: because it's supposed to be mountable from windows through usb	15:06
thresh	because broken OS do not support proper FS	15:06
DocScrutinizer51	iirc I even had to rm the file to put recorder back to work	15:06
SpeedEvil	Trizt: because if you want to plug it into your computer and be able to drag and drop files - for 95% of people, that means it needs to be vfat.	15:07
DocScrutinizer51	~curse mass storage	15:07
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, mass storage !	15:07
SpeedEvil	Trizt: There are alternatives - with a lot of coding.	15:07
Corsac	rewriting the partition table to reformat the stuff should be possible though maybe a bit risky :/	15:07
Trizt	SpeedEvil, villager; but they can easilly use a LiveCD if they need to access the files	15:07
Corsac	Trizt: “easily”?	15:07
SpeedEvil	Trizt: ...	15:07
thresh	lol	15:08
* RST38h moos woefully		15:08
* Corsac moos back		15:08
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RST38h	heya Corsac	15:09
Corsac	hey RST38h	15:09
RST38h	Ah, cute, Google pretty much told Chinese government to go fuck themselves	15:09
Corsac	yes	15:09
woglinde	rst and?	15:10
woglinde	china has more cheap people than google	15:10
woglinde	so they will make their own search engine	15:10
Jaffa	hrw: I did those fixes about an hour before you when on the train this morning :-)	15:10
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RST38h	woglinde: and nobody will ever care.	15:10
woglinde	rst moo btw.	15:11
RST38h	In related news, they made GMail use https by default	15:11
RST38h	woglinde: moo indeed.	15:11
Corsac	hmhm, is it just me or rss reader chokes easily when there are many feeds?	15:11
woglinde	rst lol	15:12
hrw	Jaffa: good	15:12
hrw	Jaffa: anyway it was fun to hack perl code again. last time I touched perl 6-7 years ago	15:12
zaheer_	think the nokia online shop is bad.....try the google one for the nexus one	15:13
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beck_	hello	15:13
Gadgetoid_mbp	Amagad! Starcraft on Stratagus	15:13
beck_	i'm trying to set up a bridge between usb and wifi interfaces on a nokia N800	15:14
beck_	i have several versions of the software installed on my devices, but i can't figure out how to get the brctl command	15:14
zaheer_	i was asked by the company i work for to purchase the nexus one for them, the shopping experience is a pain...	15:14
woglinde	beck use proxyarp and routing	15:14
woglinde	I bet the n800 wifi driver will not allow briding	15:15
Gadgetoid_mbp	Bah my flippin' starcraft CD is in the loft	15:15
tybollt	zaheer_: are the online shop thingies open yet?	15:15
beck_	what i'm looking for is top merge the 2 interfaces	15:15
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zaheer_	tybollt, yah i ordered a nexus one just now...i have no clue what type of charger it comes with and no way of calling someone or talking live with someone to ask	15:16
beck_	in the same way it is done for example in OpenWRT on Linksys routers	15:16
Bolle	hi	15:16
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zaheer_	they ship from the USA, so they can't tell me the full price as it will be subject to VAT and duty which they cannot give me an exact value	15:16
tybollt	zaheer_: oh ok url? :)	15:16
Bolle	does anyone use syncevolution?	15:16
zaheer_	www.google.com/phone/	15:17
Stskeeps	zaheer_: VAT will get applied on EU customs	15:17
Corsac	Bolle: at one point yes I tried (but from the desktop, not the n900)	15:17
zaheer_	Stskeeps, i don't mind that, the fact they can't tell me the total amount is the issue	15:17
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Stskeeps	zaheer_: of course, but the total amount they charge you is without VAT and duty	15:17
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Stskeeps	VAT and duty customs will charge you	15:17
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Bolle	i have some trouble syncing with funamble	15:18
zaheer_	Stskeeps, yah so the experience for a non american is broken	15:18
woglinde	beck as I said not all wifi drivers allows this	15:18
tybollt	zaheer_: muahahaha "Sorry the nexus one is not available in your country"	15:18
tybollt	>:)	15:18
Bolle	works fine on the desktop but not on the n900	15:18
zaheer_	tybollt, yah its open for select countries only	15:18
tybollt	no shit :)	15:18
beck_	woglinde, thanks for the hints, i'll take a look at proxyarp	15:21
Jaffa	hrw: :-)	15:22
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hrw	Jaffa: what is next step for that app?	15:24
hrw	Jaffa: something for toplevel menu would be nice	15:24
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woglinde	beck maybee the kernel on n800 is to old for this	15:26
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Untouchab1e	hey again :D	15:26
Untouchab1e	so, I got the SDK properly installed now..	15:26
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Untouchab1e	setting up Qt now	15:27
woglinde	beck look for /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/eth0/proxy_arp	15:27
woglinde	beck aeh /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/wlan0/proxy_arp	15:28
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hrw	Jaffa: another thing to add - autorun after installation of packages	15:28
beck_	i was looking on that yep	15:28
woglinde	okay	15:29
hrw	Jaffa: it is easy to do - check /etc/apt* dirs for docpurge	15:29
beck_	trying to find some doc to see if it is feasible with that to lure all neighbors and make them believe that my n800 has only 1 IP address	15:29
Jaffa	hrw: It does autorun after installation (and removal) of packages; using a dpkg trigger on /usr/share/applications/hildon	15:30
Jaffa	hrw: 0.0.2 on its way to extras-devel.	15:30
beck_	woglinde, do you think bridging would be possible on a N810 ?	15:30
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woglinde	beck dont know	15:32
woglinde	I can test it this evening	15:32
woglinde	n810 is at home	15:32
hrw	Jaffa: ok	15:32
hrw	Jaffa: so what was changed in 0.0.2?	15:32
beck_	the testbed on which we are working is composed of N800, but we could get some N810	15:32
Shapeshifter	:'(	15:33
woglinde	beck uh thats this testbed for?	15:33
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woglinde	beck hm but you could try the bridge method anyway?	15:33
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woglinde	compile bridge-utils in scratchbox	15:33
beck_	yep, i have also these tabs opened in firefow	15:34
beck_	(and i'm loosing my english sorry)	15:34
beck_	we're working on service discovery in ad-hoc networks, our testbed is based on N800 devices	15:34
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Jaffa	hrw: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2010/01/12/catorise_auto_organise_n900_applications#c46573	15:35
hrw	Jaffa: use Config::IniFiles next time	15:36
tybollt	jaffa kri!	15:36
woglinde	beck avahi for wireless?	15:36
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woglinde	beck how many n800?	15:37
Jaffa	hrw: Perhaps; however I currently like the fact it has no external dependencies :-)	15:37
kamui	Avatar in iMAX 3D was awesome	15:37
hrw	Jaffa: grab source of config::inifiles, remove perldoc from it and integrate in package?	15:38
beck_	we've got 4 of them	15:38
Jaffa	hrw: good plan	15:38
hrw	Jaffa: it is 72KB with perldoc	15:38
Jaffa	hrw: perfick	15:39
woglinde	beck hm thats not much	15:39
hrw	Jaffa: UI menu editor would be awesome but who would write it ;D	15:39
beck_	woglinde, for the tests we're doing it's enough, the partners have more for the real tests at the end	15:40
hrw	woglinde: did you got java working under maemo5?	15:40
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beck_	woglinde, avahi is not runnign	15:40
woglinde	hrw sebastin wrote he got it run	15:41
woglinde	with chinook-compat compiled	15:42
woglinde	thats how I read his mail	15:42
beck_	hrw, if you install jalimo SWT examples it installs everything and it works	15:42
woglinde	beck we are talking about maemo5	15:42
woglinde	beck and you are lucking I am one of jailmo guys	15:43
hrw	woglinde: does it allow j2me to run too?	15:43
woglinde	hrw but robert and I are to busy with projects to look jalimo	15:43
woglinde	hrw sorry dont know	15:43
woglinde	test it	15:43
hrw	ok	15:43
woglinde	compile with chinook-compat and report	15:43
woglinde	maybee you have to stitch chinook-compat for the x-changes	15:44
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hrw	woglinde: btw - nokia900 and maemo5-compat from jalimo will be merged into OE by you jalimo team or can I?	15:44
woglinde	okay I will go now	15:44
woglinde	hm	15:44
hrw	woglinde: see ya	15:44
woglinde	oh	15:44
woglinde	hrw ask sebastian	15:44
beck_	thx for the help woglinde	15:44
woglinde	I have objections	15:45
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Corsac	hmmh, is there an alt key available btw?	15:45
woglinde	beck yeah till later or evening	15:45
Corsac	(for irssi stuff)	15:45
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beck_	will try with scratchbox or proxyarp	15:45
beck_	woglinde, i'll drop by to let you know if it worked out	15:45
woglinde	yeah If I find the time I till test it myself	15:46
beck_	woglinde, thanks!	15:46
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mrmg	Hi guys, just a FYI	16:03
mrmg	http://emailsfromcrazypeople.com/2010/01/12/impossible/	16:03
tybollt	wooot there's a BURGERTIME clone?	16:03
* tybollt \o/		16:03
pupnik	thanks mrmg, great	16:04
pupnik	:)	16:04
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jebba	tybollt: si, it's the secret killer app for n900 :)	16:05
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tybollt	jebba: you bet! :D	16:07
tybollt	atleast for an oldtimer like myself :)	16:07
Bolle	i just tried jagged alliance 2...	16:07
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Bolle	didn't realise that this is 10years old...	16:08
vpol	http://nokia-n900.com/new-firmware-update-v-1-2009-44-1/	16:08
leon-	haha :)	16:08
vpol	fake?	16:08
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leon-	vpol, fake what? the firmware upgrade is real.. :)	16:09
vpol	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	16:10
tybollt	vpol: huh fake?	16:10
vpol	nothing here	16:10
tybollt	vpol: I've got that same update mate :)	16:10
* vpol not		16:10
vpol	but i don	16:10
vpol	t use windows	16:10
tybollt	vpol: apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade and you're good	16:10
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furunk3l	what tybollt said	16:11
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vpol	yoohoo	16:12
vpol	thnx	16:12
vpol	i hope i'll get my sip working again :)	16:12
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leon-	onks kellää kokemust black satinist?	16:13
leon-	uups, wrong chan.. sry :)	16:13
vpol	:)	16:13
leon-	too many servers damn it	16:13
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zeev	Hi, I just tried to send all my contacts from my old cellphone to N900, but after I choosed location for the file.vcf - N900 told me that there is not enough space for - it doesn't seems to be true... what should I do?	16:20
tybollt	zeev: Place it in your homedirectory - it _will_ have enough place.	16:21
zeev	how is it called?	16:21
zeev	(by default?)	16:22
cehteh	/home/user/	16:23
cehteh	/home/user/MyDocs for the 27GB partition .. i doubt you can fill that with all your contacts :P	16:23
zeev	I have N900/ - Audio clips Camera cities	16:24
zeev	documents	16:24
zeev	but I don't see user	16:24
cehteh	that is your home	16:24
cehteh	the filemanager cheats a bit with naming	16:24
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cehteh	actually thats /home/user/MyDocs ..	16:25
zeev	so it says that there is no enogh space in Documents for example	16:25
cehteh	strange	16:25
ifreq	zeev: cant you sync then via bluetooth, not sending any files	16:25
ifreq	?	16:25
cehteh	do you have usb plugged in?	16:25
zeev	my old phone is old	16:25
zeev	no	16:26
cehteh	no idea then without further investigation	16:26
zeev	so it can not sync I think its SonyErricson T610	16:26
zeev	"Not enough memory in target location" - is what it says on N900/Documents and I have only User guide inside...	16:28
tybollt	Well I've done the "send the entire phonebook of old device in one big gob of .vcf" so I know that works, granted - my "old" device was an E75...	16:29
zeev	maybe T610 says that the file size is bigger than it is in reallity?	16:30
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zeev	how can I get this file on my laptop with debian lenny?	16:30
zeev	through bluetooth	16:30
zeev	?	16:30
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clmntch_	hello	16:31
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lardman\|home	re	16:35
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tigert	hmm	16:41
tigert	flv and mplayer	16:41
tigert	any tips on commandline?	16:42
tigert	plays but a/v off sync	16:42
tigert	video is slower	16:42
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tigert	-hardframedrop causes megastuttering	16:42
X-Fade	tigert: -framedrop ?	16:42
X-Fade	Ah.	16:42
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xorAxAx	yippeee, my n900 arrived	16:42
tigert	maybe its just a bit too heavy	16:42
X-Fade	tigert: tried -fs?	16:43
tigert	fullscreen?	16:43
tigert	sure, no help either	16:43
X-Fade	tigert: Yeah, sometimes it tries to scale in non-fullscreen mode.	16:43
tigert	i managed to build and run rtmpdump-yle	16:43
tigert	so i can get areena.yle.fi content	16:44
tigert	piping to mplayer works but with above issue	16:44
tigert	mediaplayer with flv codec doesnt play it	16:44
tigert	can i somehow try gst-play from commandline?	16:45
bilboed-pi	gst-launch playbin2 uri=http://blahblahblah	16:45
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X-Fade	tigert: -lavdopts lowres=2:fast:skiploopfilter=all	16:45
tigert	sig6 in decode-video	16:46
tigert	s/-/_/	16:47
infobot	tigert meant: sig6 in decode_video	16:47
tigert	bilboed-pi: this is a local file or stdin	16:48
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frals	for local file just do file:///path/?	16:49
X-Fade	tigert: file:///myfile ;)	16:49
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tigert	didnt work	16:49
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tigert	~ $ gst-launch playbin2 file:///home/user/MyDocs/.videos/Dok-2010-01-10T21_00_00.flv	16:50
tigert	Setting pipeline to PAUSED ...	16:50
tigert	ERROR: Pipeline doesn't want to pause.	16:50
tigert	Setting pipeline to NULL ...	16:50
tigert	Freeing pipeline ...	16:50
bilboed-pi	tigert, ?	16:51
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bilboed-pi	tigert, same command but with -v	16:51
fatal^	uri= ?	16:52
bilboed-pi	oh yeah, also	16:52
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bilboed-pi	tigert, gst-launch -v playbin2 uri=file:///....	16:52
tigert	right :)	16:52
bilboed-pi	tigert, worked ?	16:54
tigert	prerolling	16:57
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tigert	and takes its time there	16:57
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bilboed-pi	oh ?	16:58
bilboed-pi	is that file massive or what ?	16:59
tigert	http://pastebin.com/m4fed16bb	16:59
tigert	its maybe high bw	16:59
tigert	maybe too much for n900	17:00
tigert	but mplayer plays, just video off sync (slow vid compared to snd)	17:00
bilboed-pi	sigh... openmax :(	17:01
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tigert	hm?	17:02
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tigert	"too much to chew"?	17:02
bilboed-pi	hard to say	17:02
tigert	ok	17:02
bilboed-pi	openmax can fail for "whatever-the-reason-it-decides"	17:02
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tigert	http://users.tkk.fi/~aajanki/rtmpdump-yle/index-en.html	17:03
tigert	this is the downloader app if you are interested	17:03
tigert	any video from that site	17:03
tigert	would be sweet to make a player	17:03
bilboed-pi	could be a bit too big indeed	17:04
tigert	that pulls the rss and makes a list of content to play	17:04
tigert	its maybe on the edge :/	17:04
tigert	ffplay stutters a lot	17:04
bilboed-pi	sure, but that shouldn't make the decoder fail	17:04
tigert	mplayer is ok but off sync	17:04
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tigert	yea	17:04
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tybollt	hrrm	17:07
tybollt	if there's a phone number in a text, when I click on it I only get the option to call that number - why don't I get the option to text that number? I find that very silly.	17:07
juhjokel	tybollt: Did you already file a bug about that?	17:08
Arkenoi	where is my updaaaate?	17:08
tybollt	juhjokel: No, quite frankly I'm right now debating whether it's a feature or a bug ;)	17:09
tybollt	juhjokel: would you care to enlighten me?	17:09
tigert	lavdopts skiploopfilter=all:fast=1	17:09
tigert	helped a lot	17:09
juhjokel	or feature request	17:09
tigert	now dinner	17:09
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tybollt	juhjokel: Fair enough - guess I have something to do this evening then ;)	17:10
juhjokel	tybollt: Is there "show contacts page / add to contacts" options either?	17:11
juhjokel	Don't have N900 myself... yet...	17:11
tybollt	juhjokel: no, there's only a number pad and a little textbox with the number and a green "dial" button	17:12
tybollt	very scarce	17:12
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chollya	anyone knows, what system liblocation uses for lat/long values?	17:14
pupnik9	when posting actual useful info to the channel, it would help to include some relevant description on the same line to help google search	17:14
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lardman\|home	what's the recommended package for Python plotting on device?	17:19
alterego	gdk-pixbuf? :)	17:22
lardman\|home	I was hoping for some abstraction ;)	17:22
bilboed-pi	pylab ? matplotlib ?	17:22
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lardman\|home	is matplotlib available for the device now?	17:23
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villager	yay, my syncevolution frontend gui is finally basically done... now to figure out how to package it up	17:34
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pupnik9	what would be a simple way to add shellscript shortcuts to desktop or some other fast launch method	17:36
edheldil	does not maemo use *.desktop files?	17:37
villager	yeah you can probably just make a .desktop file	17:38
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mfinkle	*.desktop files do not actually add shorcuts to the desktop	17:40
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villager	but they add it to the menu that lets you add it to the desktop I think	17:41
tybollt	mfinkle: but they appear in the "add shortcut" dropdown box?	17:41
mfinkle	pupnik9: I noticed that you can use gconf to add shortcuts to the desktop	17:41
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mfinkle	yes, they do appear in the "add shortcut" dropdown	17:41
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redeeman	someone should really make an application to align icons on the "desktop"	17:43
yuizy	angry birds is clearly the best game on this phone :D	17:44
tybollt	redeeman: =) I'd have a use for that	17:45
tybollt	snap-to-grid++	17:45
* xorAxAx is repartitioning his n900		17:45
tybollt	ugh - really?	17:45
xorAxAx	yes	17:45
xorAxAx	with the ruskie recipe	17:46
ruskie	:)	17:46
ruskie	if you feel like things are missing from the instructions lemme know	17:46
jarod1	Hi, I am trying to use USB networking on Maemo OS 2008. I used the usbnet script on the N800 and connected the usb cable on a win XP machine. It works with OS2007 versions, but with the 2008 the windows xp network RNDIS gadget network interface is Disable. Had someone the same issues with the 2008 version and usbnetworking?	17:46
xorAxAx	Nokia-N900-42-11:~# mount /dev/mmcblk0p6 /usra	17:47
xorAxAx	mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p6 on /usra failed: Invalid argument	17:47
xorAxAx	ruskie: fails for me	17:47
ruskie	xorAxAx, you did mkfs the filesystem?	17:48
tybollt	doesn't looke like	17:48
ruskie	and you did reboot after you repartitioned	17:48
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xorAxAx	ruskie: yep	17:48
ruskie	you can try mount -t whateverfs(ext2/3)	17:49
xorAxAx	Nokia-N900-42-11:~# mount -t ext2 /dev/mmcblk0p6 /usra	17:49
xorAxAx	works	17:49
xorAxAx	yes	17:49
DocScrutinizer-8	ruskie: you actually did IT? overhaul the whole messed-up partitioning of N900. wow	17:49
* odin_ stats his assult on bugs.maemo.org <evil-laugh/>		17:49
ruskie	DocScrutinizer-8, see wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie	17:50
DocScrutinizer-8	coool	17:50
ruskie	DocScrutinizer-8, I've had it running like that since 5 days after I got it :)	17:50
ruskie	so basically by december 8 it was setup like that :)	17:50
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xorAxAx	ruskie: the script is missing a mkdir for home/user/MyDocs	17:51
xorAxAx	"script" that is	17:51
ruskie	that dir should be there already :)	17:51
ruskie	it's where teh big eMMC partition is mounted to :)	17:52
xorAxAx	no, its not there	17:56
redeeman	tybollt: im considering writing a script to do it, but i don't have time :(	17:56
ruskie	/home/user/MyDocs	17:56
ruskie	if it's not there something is odd with your device	17:56
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xorAxAx	/home/user is a freshly mouinted partition	17:57
xorAxAx	empty	17:57
ruskie	hmm	17:57
ruskie	ahh	17:57
ruskie	hmm	17:57
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ruskie	did you do a backup?	17:57
xorAxAx	yes, sure, via ssh	17:57
ruskie	I think I mentioned that	17:57
xorAxAx	currently untarring it	17:57
xorAxAx	why a bacckup?	17:57
ruskie	you restore the user dir back to /home	17:57
xorAxAx	i know, thats one step later in yoru script	17:58
ruskie	ahh	17:58
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xorAxAx	which makes sense, because the files need to run into the mount	17:58
xorAxAx	and not /home	17:58
ruskie	yeah	17:58
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ruskie	hmm I'll add that	17:58
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xorAxAx	can you move it to the wiki?	17:59
xorAxAx	in the same step	17:59
xorAxAx	and modify your post to link to the wiki article	17:59
ruskie	sure	17:59
manzn	hello folks	17:59
ruskie	won't do it right now but will do it	18:00
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manzn	i search help :-D - i have build a app for fremantle, this change the menu structure - i only have a problem i not able to build the source for upload to the extra repository - is someone here how can help me or give me a few tip?	18:03
ruskie	what? plain old: dpkg-buildpackage -S doesn't work ?	18:04
manzn	i don't know how to use - i am a beginner	18:05
manzn	at the moment it is only a bash script	18:05
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manzn	at the moment i build it with dpkg -b	18:05
ruskie	do you have a debian/ dir with control and rules etc?	18:06
wazd_e63	Lo all	18:06
manzn	a /debian dir i have - but i dont know how to use the rules - control is in	18:06
ruskie	manzn, and rules as well?	18:07
ruskie	manzn, is this just an existing debian package you are trying to rebuild?	18:07
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manzn	no its a new package	18:07
ruskie	'dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc' <-- builds the .deb and 'dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc -S' <-- builds the source	18:07
manzn	ah ok	18:08
ruskie	but usually I think it requires rules	18:08
manzn	ruskie can you look to this: maemo.3ion.at/mymenu-0.4.4.tar.gz	18:08
DocScrutinizer-8	ruskie: 1.0.1 update went smooth with that nice partitioning of yours?	18:08
ruskie	DocScrutinizer-8, yup	18:08
ruskie	DocScrutinizer-8, it's the 1.1 that worries me... but I think I'll only need to fixup some init/event.d scripts for that	18:09
DocScrutinizer-8	ruskie: aiui you won't even lose any of the installed apps or presets	18:09
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ruskie	erm???	18:09
ruskie	why would I loose them in any event?	18:09
ruskie	hmm manzn that's a debian binary only package	18:10
DocScrutinizer-8	yeah why	18:10
ruskie	DocScrutinizer-8, I don't plan on reflashing :)	18:10
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ruskie	only using OTA update	18:10
DocScrutinizer-8	me neither	18:10
manzn	how i sayed - i build this a the moment only with dpkg -b - sorry i just start with this - i will learn but - i dont understand it at the moment	18:11
* DocScrutinizer-8 wonders if backup app knows to work with the mod o fied partitioning		18:11
ruskie	DocScrutinizer-8, uses paths so doesn't care from what I can tell	18:11
ruskie	manzn, hmm you the mymenu author?	18:11
manzn	yep	18:11
xorAxAx	DocScrutinizer-8: why shouldnt it?	18:12
ruskie	you used dh_make to generate a basic debian/ dir in your sources?	18:12
DocScrutinizer-8	xorAxAx: why should camera bork when no VFAT	18:12
manzn	yes	18:12
manzn	but where i have to put the files for /opt etc....	18:13
ruskie	manzn, edited rules to do whatever you need to do to build and whatever you need to do to install ?	18:13
xorAxAx	DocScrutinizer-8: the camera still works	18:13
ruskie	just use maemo-optify-deb :)	18:13
xorAxAx	DocScrutinizer-8: the file systems remain equal	18:13
ruskie	that will do it all correct even if it's setup into /usr	18:13
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zeev	I get "Not enough memory in target location" when I try to send all my contacts from my old phone to N900. du -hc ./ said that only 1.7G is used (in /home/user)	18:15
manzn	ruskie ok i test it - thx for the moment	18:15
ruskie	zeev, used or free?	18:15
ruskie	and how much is there free?	18:15
zeev	used	18:15
DocScrutinizer-8	ruskie: now we only need a sane way to de-optify all those insane setups	18:16
ruskie	DocScrutinizer-8, I just roll my own for the stuff I need :)	18:16
zeev	how do I check it?	18:16
zeev	(how much is free)	18:16
ruskie	df -h	18:16
ruskie	that will tell you exactly the info	18:16
zeev	one second...	18:16
DocScrutinizer-8	ruskie: seen it. fair enough but for now not an option for me	18:16
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* DocScrutinizer-8 considers a universal deoptification postinstall script		18:19
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ruskie	DocScrutinizer-8, just need a maemo-deoptify-deb script :)	18:20
lupine_85	so having compiled a binary and copied it over to my phone, how do I run it? ./<filename> doesn't work in xterm for whatever reason...	18:21
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DocScrutinizer-8	I really wonder who and why invented that optification botch	18:21
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ruskie	lupine_85, erm... does it return anything?	18:21
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DocScrutinizer-8	mere madness	18:22
lupine_85	line1: syntax error: "(" unexpected	18:22
gouverneur	ruskie: its a config option to "not-optify"	18:22
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ruskie	gouverneur, per build but not after a deb has been optified :)	18:22
DocScrutinizer-8	ruskie: you ever considered to include /var to your improved scheme?	18:22
ruskie	lupine_85, head -n1 filename	18:22
gouverneur	ruskie: yes	18:22
ruskie	DocScrutinizer-8, tried it but rather not	18:23
lupine_85	ruskie: it's general binary garbage	18:23
xorAxAx	ruskie: in /tmproot, i still see the mounts overlayed	18:23
xorAxAx	ruskie: are you sure that this works?	18:23
lupine_85	...ok, it's compiled it as 32-bit LSB x86	18:23
ruskie	xorAxAx, hmm you did a mount --bind / /tmproot ?	18:23
lupine_85	dubya tee eff	18:23
xorAxAx	i.e. there is /tmproot/usr/lost+found	18:23
xorAxAx	yes	18:23
ruskie	worked for me hmm	18:23
ruskie	try to touch a file on /usr	18:24
ruskie	and see if it shows up	18:24
DocScrutinizer-8	what for would I need the tmproot?	18:24
xorAxAx	ooops, ruskie	18:24
xorAxAx	works indeed, was in wrong cwd	18:24
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lupine_85	gcc -v in scratchbox: ...--target=i486-pc-linux-gnu...	18:25
xorAxAx	rootfs 227.9M 67.5M 156.2M 30% /	18:25
xorAxAx	yeah!	18:25
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villager	lupine_85: and the command prompt says armel?	18:26
DocScrutinizer51	that's more like it	18:26
lupine_85	no, FREEMANTLE_x86	18:26
lupine_85	I guess I should RTFM some more ;)	18:26
villager	lupine_85: well there's your problem	18:26
villager	lupine_85: type sb-menu and select armel target	18:27
DocScrutinizer51	ruskie: I fail to see what for we need the tmproot bindmount	18:27
lupine_85	ta	18:28
* lupine_85 reinstalls qt librarie		18:28
lupine_85	...s	18:28
ruskie	DocScrutinizer51, to remove the old /usr/* content	18:28
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DocScrutinizer51	aah	18:28
DocScrutinizer51	k	18:28
DocScrutinizer51	thnx	18:28
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DocScrutinizer51	ruskie: awsome info and work. Many thanks for that	18:29
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zeev_	does anybody has a clue why I don't have enough space on my N900 to accept a file with contacts from my old phone?	18:29
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* DocScrutinizer51 giggles		18:30
thomaz	is anyboy using usb networking on the n900?	18:30
odin_	thomaz, what kind of networking are you attempting?	18:31
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thomaz	odin_: sharing my computers internet connection with the phone via usb	18:31
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ruskie	zeev_, df -h /home	18:31
ruskie	?	18:31
ruskie	returns what?	18:31
zeev_	ruskie: /dev/mmcb1kop1 27G	18:31
ruskie	erm	18:32
ruskie	that's /home ?	18:32
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ruskie	or /home/user/MyDocs ?	18:32
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thomaz	odin_: have you done that before?	18:32
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DocScrutinizer51	maybe the file even is desined to /var/tmp	18:33
zeev_	how do I check it	18:33
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zeev_	there must be enough space there ... I didn't put anything...	18:34
ruskie	df -h	18:34
DocScrutinizer51	Usual oops. click a pdf or media file. error: not enough free storage in /var/tmp to dl xyz	18:34
ruskie	it'll list /home	18:34
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odin_	thomaz, I have not no... the phones internet connect is via GPRS/3G ?	18:35
zeev_	df /home - 2G	18:35
ruskie	zeev_, how about the full line?	18:35
ruskie	it has: Size Used Avail Use%	18:35
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zeev_	Use% 2%	18:36
thomaz	odin_: ok... i'm able to ping internet using x terminal and all, but the phone itself doesn't recognize it, and tries to connect to wifi/3g	18:36
ruskie	hmm	18:36
ruskie	ok that is odd then	18:36
zeev_	Avail 1.8G	18:36
niezapomniana	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJWPN1DMOc0	18:36
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fiferboy	AndrewFBlack-Wor: What did you use to build the latest maemo-org theme?	18:36
fiferboy	AndrewFBlack-Wor: It looks like the postinst file no longer links the /opt/theme/maemo-org to /usr/share/themes/maemo-org	18:36
odin_	thomaz, x terminal on the phone ? u can ping from ? is it an N900 ? if so it only allows a single Internet connection at a time	18:36
odin_	thomaz, as yes you said you have N900 already	18:37
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thomaz	odin_: yes, on the phone	18:37
AndrewFBlack-Wor	fiferboy, working on getting it build with MADDE but themes are not optied with it yet	18:37
zeev_	ruskie: any ideas?	18:37
odin_	thomaz, ok what icon is shown in status? WiFi or 3G connection ?	18:38
AndrewFBlack-Wor	fiferboy, got to work on my post install file for it just doing a test run of it first	18:38
fiferboy	AndrewFBlack-Wor: Ah, cool. When I updated the optified version with the new version it no longer shows up in the theme selector	18:38
odin_	thomaz, or you want your phone to use your PC Workstation for internet ?	18:38
fiferboy	I'll try uninstalling and reinstalling	18:38
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thomaz	odin_: yes, phone to use pc's internet	18:38
AndrewFBlack-Wor	1.1-2 or 1.1-3?	18:38
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odin_	thomaz, I do not think that is possible out-of-the-box	18:38
odin_	thomaz, for a start the phone needs to connect to the PC workstation somehow ? like with PPP, then the PC needs to NAT the phones packets, etc... not strightforward	18:39
thomaz	odin_: there is a wiki entry, it is supposed to work, and it does, but the phone refuses to use it as an internet connection	18:39
DocScrutinizer51	zeev_: could you elaborate on steps you did to get the error	18:39
fiferboy	AndrewFBlack-Wor: 1.1.2	18:39
zeev_	yes, of course	18:39
thomaz	odin_: i have internet, but only on the x terminal (on the phone)	18:40
odin_	thomaz, so you have a PPP session between phone and workstation ? and you disable / turn off Wifi/3G ?	18:40
AndrewFBlack-Wor	fiferboy, I mightn ot have done something right	18:40
zeev_	turned BT on... sended contacts from my old phone, accepted it on my N900, was asked to provide location for the file to save it... chose Documents	18:40
odin_	thomaz, maybe thats because most of the apps in the phone use ICD (Intenet Connection Daemon) and it doesn't understand your setup, since that method of working, I do not think is supported out-of-the-box	18:41
zeev_	got the error message	18:41
thomaz	that's what i think too, was just hoping someone has been through that before	18:41
RST38h	wazd: moo	18:41
ruskie	zeev_, hmm Documents is /home/user/MyDocs	18:41
odin_	thomaz, so when you turn off Wifi/3G and then start browser, the first thing it asks ICD is, are we connected ? if not get us connected, which starts the usual dialogs	18:42
ruskie	the 27G partition	18:42
villager	thomaz: you can either set up the default route manually from the xterm, or try to set up the pc-connectivity package	18:42
ruskie	how much free space do you have there?	18:42
hrw	Documents is /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/ dir	18:42
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odin_	thomaz, maybe ICD needs a setting to force that its always connected and to never manage internet connections, this way the browser will just try and use the internet	18:42
zeev_	25G	18:43
zeev_	available	18:43
zeev_	in MyDocs	18:43
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ruskie	odd	18:44
fiferboy	AndrewFBlack-Wor: Uninstall-reinstall didn't help	18:44
DocScrutinizer51	zeev_: could you try to create a small random file in /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/ ?	18:44
odin_	thomaz, yes I know how that can work and be safe, if you turn on such an option ICD will always report internet is ready and working to all apps, and it will never try to manage/offer Wifi/3G access	18:44
ruskie	hmm might be readonly	18:44
AndrewFBlack-Wor	fiferboy, I need to run over my files I´m leaving something out.	18:44
zeev_	like echo "asdf" > file?	18:44
thomaz	odin_: thanks, i'll try to look for that	18:45
DocScrutinizer51	yup	18:45
fiferboy	AndrewFBlack-Wor: It looks like it is not installing to /usr/share/themes	18:45
odin_	thomaz, now evertime the user reboots their phone and uses an application (while ICD is in this mode) ICD will always offer just once per-powercycle, to turn ICD back into normal mode again	18:45
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AndrewFBlack-Wor	I downloaded the .deb version from site and most of the files didn make it into thepackage its only like 44kb in size	18:45
thomaz	villager: how should i set the route manually?	18:45
odin_	thomaz, this way users who forgot which setting they changed can get a quick fix after a reboot (which they will try as a way to get out of that situation)	18:45
wazd_e63	Rst38h: heya	18:46
fiferboy	AndrewFBlack-Wor: Yeah, only /usr/share/doc is in the deb	18:46
wazd_e63	Rst38h: do you know anything bout Western Union transitions?)	18:46
odin_	thomaz, run "/sbin/route" but I'm thinking you have internet connection already and have default route, your problem is ICD	18:46
thomaz	odin_: yeah, routes seem to be good	18:46
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odin_	thomaz, can you pastebin it ? for my long noseyness	18:47
zeev_	where is the ">" sign?	18:47
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DocScrutinizer51	zeev_: actually the No spaceN error might be fuzzy. Might as well mean "no permission" or other random error	18:47
villager	thomaz: as root, you can do "route del default" and "route add default gw <pc-ip-address>"	18:47
* odin_ thinks N900 needs /bin/tc and policy-routing compiled into kernel		18:48
RST38h	wazd: Yea, they are expensive	18:48
zeev_	it was created with echo	18:49
odin_	so we can have both Wifi and 3G internet's connected as same time, and a user preference as to which is used over which when both available	18:49
wazd_e63	Rst38h: well, I need to receive money from Roman somehow, he gave me that option)	18:49
zeev_	so its not read only	18:49
odin_	also for MMS APNs and WAP APNs we can bring them up with Wifi and because MMS/WAP APNs do not provide full internet connectivity they can also be low priority connections	18:49
wazd_e63	Rst38h: so I guess that's not a problem)	18:50
DocScrutinizer51	zeev_: does the filename contain any strange chars. spaces, umlauts, special chars?	18:50
zeev_	no	18:50
zeev_	sdf	18:50
zeev_	as I wrote it	18:50
DocScrutinizer51	not the one created by you	18:50
* odin_ rests his assult on bugs.maemo.org (while he goes to eat)		18:50
wazd_e63	Rst38h: what info should I provide?	18:50
DocScrutinizer51	the one that threw error	18:50
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zeev_	space	18:51
RST38h	wazd: Afaik, first/last name	18:51
thomaz	odin_: villager , this is what i have http://pastie.org/776616	18:51
zeev_	yes it was called whole phonebook.vcf	18:51
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DocScrutinizer51	zeev_: might be the cause	18:51
wazd_e63	Rst38h: cause I actually haven't found anything on their site (haven't googled for it though)	18:51
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zeev_	I tried to save it with a file name without the space - it didn't work as well	18:51
villager	thomaz: then presumably the problem is on the pc	18:51
RST38h	wazd: first/last name should be ok	18:52
thomaz	villager: well, i can ping each other and i can ping google.com from the phone	18:52
DocScrutinizer51	zeev_: I'm running short of ideas. prolly bug in bt-filetransfer	18:52
wazd_e63	Rst38h: ah, ok then, thanks)	18:52
zeev_	could somebody please try it with his phone?	18:53
villager	thomaz: ok, so it's the n900 browser and stuff that's the problem?	18:53
zeev_	(transfer a file through BT)	18:53
thomaz	villager: yes	18:53
DocScrutinizer51	zeenix: sorry. no source here to send via bt	18:53
wazd_e63	Rst38h: someone told me that you're reworking xchat according to my guidelines, great)	18:53
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DocScrutinizer51	s/ zeenix / zeev_ /	18:53
villager	thomaz: I suppose you could try to kill icd2 and see what happens... but I recommend installing pc-connectivity-manager, it has ways to kill the builtin connection management from menus (presumably by killing icd2 or something)	18:54
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RST38h	wazd: not really :)	18:54
thomaz	villager: ok, i'll try that, thanks :)	18:54
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RST38h	wazd: but I do try deuglifying it as much as possible without changing the code	18:54
wazd_e63	Rst38h: heh)	18:54
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wazd_e63	Rst38h: we're developing Qt atmosphere widget now for omw	18:55
Hydroxide	hi all. please forgive me if this is a FAQ, but I haven't found the answer anywhere yet. since updating to PR1.0.1 over the air, I can rarely hear the other person during phone calls. sometimes after pressing the volume button I'll have a moment or two of good volume but mostly negligible to zero	18:56
Hydroxide	has anyone heard of this?	18:56
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wazd_e63	Rst38h: it will show weather effects on the background of the day in detailed view	18:56
lupine_85	\o/ wget	18:57
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wazd_e63	Hydroxide: have you rebooted after update?	18:58
Hydroxide	wazd_e63: yes	18:58
RST38h	wazd: scrolling 3d map with weather on top? =)	18:58
Hydroxide	wazd_e63: this has persisted across multiple reboots, and unless I'm very confused this wasn't a problem before the update	18:59
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wazd_e63	Rst38h: well, not that epic :D	18:59
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RST38h	wazd: Should add a naked girl.	18:59
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RST38h	wazd: steering clouds with her finger or something	18:59
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AndrewFBlack-Wor	fiferboy, try maemo-org now	19:02
AndrewFBlack-Wor	it wont be optied but it should work	19:03
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wazd_e63	rst38h: mheheh)	19:04
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ruskie	finally place for jabber account on t.m.o	19:08
hrw	ruskie: user@talk.maemo.org JIDs?	19:09
ruskie	no	19:09
ruskie	just a spot to put a jabber id in :)	19:10
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hrw	ah	19:10
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Hydroxide	wow. nobody seems to have experienced the problem I described?	19:13
villager	I've updated but I almost never call anybody, so dunno	19:13
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Hydroxide	yeah, heh	19:14
SpeedEvil	Hydroxide: what villager said	19:15
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ruskie	same here	19:15
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fiferboy	AndrewFBlack-Wor: It works, but it is listed as @THEMENAME@ in the theme selector :D	19:17
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Hydroxide	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6063 seems to describe the behavior I'm seeing, fwiw	19:18
povbot`	Bug 6063: voice calls inaudible most of the time, but not through speakers or earplugs	19:18
Hydroxide	which makes it seem possibly unrelated to the new update. (also I haevn't tried speakers or earplugs yet)	19:19
luke-jr	quite frankly, that bug description sucks :P	19:19
andre__	luke-jr, better proposal?	19:20
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luke-jr	andre__: well, soemthing that actually says what the problem is?	19:20
luke-jr	to me, it says:	19:20
Hydroxide	luke-jr: it really is an intermittent/random variation between those three behaviors	19:20
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luke-jr	1. voice calls are silent	19:20
luke-jr	2. but not	19:20
crashanddie	gents, just wanted to say goodbye	19:20
luke-jr	in other words, works	19:20
luke-jr	crashanddie: leaving IRC?	19:20
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crashanddie	next stop will probably be from the asian continent, and after that, oceania	19:21
andre__	hmm. enjoy :)	19:21
Hydroxide	luke-jr: no, it is in fact an intermittent alternation between 1) 2) and 3), often within the same phone call, like it says	19:21
crashanddie	dunno when I'll have access to the interwebs	19:21
Hydroxide	crashanddie: yes, enjoy :)	19:21
Hydroxide	luke-jr: if it were always 1), then yes, it would be fine	19:21
luke-jr	Hydroxide: the description doesn't mention any 1,2, or 3 :P	19:21
luke-jr	Hydroxide: voice calls aren't supposed to be inaudible...	19:21
luke-jr	I would imagine	19:22
Hydroxide	luke-jr: well, right. did you look at the bug itself?	19:22
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luke-jr	nope, was just commenting on the description :P	19:22
luke-jr	reading the actual bug makes more sense	19:23
luke-jr	but missing one key point	19:23
Hydroxide	yes, it does	19:23
luke-jr	if there's no earplugs or speakers activated, how on earth are you expecting to hear anything?	19:23
luke-jr	N900 can beam the audio into your brain magicly?	19:23
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Hydroxide	luke-jr: I think by "earplugs or speakers", the speaker meant "external earbud headphones or external speakers"...	19:24
Hydroxide	luke-jr: not everyone is a native english speaker, and not every native english speaker speaks precisely all the time :)	19:24
luke-jr	ehh, I'd still be confused as heck trying to figure out what the bug report means XD	19:24
Hydroxide	clearly :) have I un-confused you?	19:24
luke-jr	I think so.	19:24
Hydroxide	ok	19:24
Hydroxide	good	19:25
luke-jr	might want to clarify the bug with that info :P	19:25
AndrewFBlack-Wor	fiferboy, found a varible I forgot to change all will be good next version hope ot get it re optified then to.	19:25
crashanddie	anyway, bubye!	19:25
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heinx	have you noticed the battery empty sound blasts away pretty much at full volume from the in-ear-buds and gives you a nice jump :)	19:25
Hydroxide	heh, I have yet to create a bugs.m.o account (wasn't my bug in the first place)... so many different bugzillas, all requiring separate accounts	19:25
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villager	luke-jr: I think by speakers he means the normal loud speakers used to play music and games and stuff... as opposed to the earpiece thing used when you use the device as a regular phone	19:26
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* Hydroxide wishes bugzilla didn't require accounts, but that's a much broader problem than just maemo, affecting almost every FOSS project other than Debian		19:26
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villager	luke-jr: like, the speakers are on the side, the earpiece is a hole on the left of the screen	19:27
villager	I think	19:27
Hydroxide	villager: ah, that makes sense. I haven't used the stereo music-playing speakers yet	19:27
lupine_85	does it have openid?	19:28
heinx	it would be cool if there was a different profile for earbuds and not-earbuds, perhaps in future releases?	19:28
greenfly	there should be already	19:30
greenfly	whatever the volume is set for on the headphones is separate from the volume for the speakers	19:30
greenfly	so you can, for instance, turn down the speaker audio all the way, then plug in headphones and adjust it accordingly	19:31
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greenfly	and if your headphones get unplugged it won't blast your music to everyone on the train, for instance	19:31
heinx	ok that's good	19:31
heinx	how about calls?	19:31
heinx	the ringtone	19:31
greenfly	volumes for notifications is set in the profile preferences	19:31
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heinx	it's volume has scared me a couple of times already when I haven't remembered to put it way down	19:32
heinx	and then you can't here the phone in your pocket if you leave it down	19:32
greenfly	open up the "General" profile preferences and scroll down	19:32
phr	it would be good to use the microphone to do active noise cancellation in software if you're weariring earphones	19:32
phr	subtract out the ambient low frequency sound	19:32
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xorAxAx	hmm, does your vibration motor make high pitched noises as well?	19:33
heinx	so does that ringtone volume also have two profiles (earbuds on/off)?	19:33
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phr	it would have to be equalized for the specific earphones but that'd be a one-time setup	19:33
hrw	bye	19:33
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phr	say, does anyone know the speed of the 900's 5mp camera (how many seconds required between shots)? tx	19:34
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julianol1ver	hmm, as of the last day Maemo has been really struggling on the N900. window flipping get's stuck, kb input also, as do scrolling to new workspaces, requiring a reboot in some cases. df -h tells me i'm not low on diskspace and top doesn't report anything unusual. any where else to look?	19:35
julianol1ver	it's been running like a charm since i was given the device..	19:36
julianol1ver	(2.5 months)	19:36
xorAxAx	hmm, does your vibration motor make high pitched noises as well?	19:37
julianol1ver	no	19:37
julianol1ver	but i typed some text into the terminal 1 minute ago and i have to see it appear..	19:37
Trizt	do you use modest?	19:37
RST38h	julian: reboot	19:38
julianol1ver	Trizt: what is it?	19:38
julianol1ver	RST38h: yes, i do that often.	19:38
Trizt	the emial client	19:38
julianol1ver	i use the default client	19:38
SpeedEvil	julianol1ver: I noticed tracker/thumbnailer using stupid amounts of CPU - and making it unresponsive	19:38
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Trizt	the default email client on n900 seems to leak memeory as hell and uses loads of cpu cycles	19:39
julianol1ver	SpeedEvil: top isn't reporting anything unusual, however it takes some time for the terminal to come into focus, so i may be fooling myself.	19:39
julianol1ver	Trizt: ahah.. well it has been quite fine up until this point.	19:39
julianol1ver	SpeedEvil: is it possible to purge this entirely?	19:39
SpeedEvil	k	19:39
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Trizt	julianol1ver; I usually need to do a "kill -9 <pid>" on it	19:39
julianol1ver	Trizt: ok	19:39
* julianol1ver tries this		19:40
Trizt	julianol1ver; I installed claw-mail today as a replacement	19:40
julianol1ver	hmm, the device is locked up. i have a half-faded in terminal, stuck there.	19:40
* julianol1ver reboots		19:40
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julianol1ver	the last thing i remember installing before it went a bit silly was the (excellent) 'Qik'.	19:42
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Trizt	did you do the maemo update recently (Monday I think it came out)?	19:43
julianol1ver	in fact i did..	19:43
* Trizt waits for the next one		19:44
julianol1ver	after reboot and while idle i'm using 98%CPU and 95M physical mem. after a minute it quitens down to 9%CPU but mem usage is still as high.	19:44
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odin_	does Maemo have a specific DEB packager ? i.e. customer modules to apt/dpkg ?	19:45
julianol1ver	ugh, weird. a single tap on the screen spikes it up to 100%!	19:45
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Trizt	julianol1ver; yeah, something that seems to be broke, I have ~2% / 155MB	19:46
Trizt	and tapping spikes up to 18%	19:46
julianol1ver	tomorrow i think i'll backup and reinstall.	19:46
julianol1ver	i'm sure it's my fault, i've been installing all sorts of evil goodies from extras, writing and running my own software (none on init though..)..	19:48
Trizt	extras-devel too?	19:48
julianol1ver	indeed..	19:48
julianol1ver	how can i not : \|	19:48
Trizt	:)	19:49
julianol1ver	it's an orchard ;)	19:49
Trizt	I tend to look how much it tries to install, if too much new stuff, then I skip the install	19:49
julianol1ver	i've been using Debian as my sole OS for around 11 years now, i should know better ;)	19:50
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* Trizt ain't that happy with debian		19:51
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, I think the browser's missing.	19:53
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angasuleN810	it seems the advanced power applet has a memory leak	19:55
odin_	"git clone git://gitorious.org/modest/wpeditor.git" fails for me, who do I contact to fix? is it a temp issue ? is it user error here ?	19:57
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flux	does n900 accept calendar entry sms-messages? atleast it looks like it can send them.	19:58
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odin_	does gitorious have a different login to other parts of maemo?	20:01
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slonopotamus	wooow! i just ran chromium on n800!	20:01
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slonopotamus	http://slonopotamus.org/chromium_n800.jpg	20:02
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flux	slonopotamus, pretty cool :). how's the memory use?	20:02
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slonopotamus	flux, 19mb with gentoo.org open	20:03
slonopotamus	flux, and it's damn fast	20:03
flux	slonopotamus, not to bad!	20:04
flux	slonopotamus, how about with multiple tabs?	20:04
flux	say, gentoo.org open twice?	20:04
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slonopotamus	err... flux 5x gentoo.org, 21mb	20:06
flux	so quite sensible memory use	20:06
flux	not sure if chromium would just fork the old tab in that case and maximize sharing, though	20:06
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Trizt	is there any way you can prevent the wallpapers to be displayed in the image viewer, I would like to block them permanently without delete them	20:12
julianol1ver	a MIME trick? suffix or make them a dotfile?	20:13
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DocScrutinizer51	seems all that doesn't help. the indexer seems to be greedy and doesn't act like expected to the config where and what to search for. At least that's what I've been told	20:15
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Trizt	that sound like windows	20:15
DocScrutinizer51	lol yeah	20:15
flux	you could move them to a directory that the tracker doesn't track	20:16
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flux	..possibly change tracker config to exclude certain directories	20:16
julianol1ver	that'd do it.	20:16
flux	tracker config is at /home/user/.config/tracker	20:16
Trizt	on a nfs share which ain't mounted	20:17
julianol1ver	bbl	20:18
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slonopotamus	flux, i bet it'll use _much_ less mem than microb on any page :)	20:20
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flux	slonopotamus, how are you measuring the memory use, btw?	20:22
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slonopotamus	err	20:22
slonopotamus	i did it wrong :D	20:22
slonopotamus	i should use chromium built-in thing.	20:23
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slonopotamus	flux, it doesn't go into swap. so, (free + buffered after launching chomium) - (free + buffered before launching chromium) is good enough?	20:27
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slonopotamus	+ (swap_after swap_before) if it does swapping	20:28
flux	how about used+swap+buffers?	20:28
flux	before and after?	20:28
slonopotamus	flux, gimme a good formula to calculate mem usage :)	20:28
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slonopotamus	or just a link where microb starts swapping	20:29
slonopotamus	slashdot.org is good enough? :)	20:29
slonopotamus	microb is crawling there	20:29
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GeneralAntilles	Hooray for stinking js	20:30
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RST38h	you can try enabling jit	20:34
slonopotamus	RST38h, uh?	20:34
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RST38h	slonopotamus: about:config	20:39
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slonopotamus	RST38h, does nothing in chromium. you're talking about microb?	20:41
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RST38h	MicroB of course	20:42
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slonopotamus	RST38h, regardless of what you do to microb, it'll still be slow and memory-hungry.	20:43
RST38h	slono: There is a magic trick to that	20:43
RST38h	slono: Install and run Fennec, and MicroB will suddenly become fast and slim.	20:44
slonopotamus	...	20:44
Corsac	aha :))	20:44
slonopotamus	it's still damn slow compared to chromium	20:44
luke-jr	hehe	20:44
slonopotamus	let's bench slashdot.org load time?	20:44
Corsac	sure, what a nice thing to do	20:44
RST38h	chromium on N900? ;)	20:44
angasuleN810	I want a browser with a good UI in addition to light and fast	20:45
flux	well, all kinds of things affect that, no?	20:45
angasuleN810	microb does well in UI	20:45
pronto	does anyone acutly use that ovi thing?	20:45
Corsac	I find midori nice, but microb is ok anyway	20:45
lardman\|home	trying to install gnuplot-nox in sb to build Octave, I get the following error, any thoughts?: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m3b2e7451	20:45
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smaug	midori is buggy as h***	20:46
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GeneralAntilles	smaug, probably why it's in Extras-devel and not Extras. :)	20:47
slonopotamus	microb is slow even on n900	20:47
smaug	MicroB works well on n900	20:47
guido_g	ack	20:48
RST38h	You all want Lynx.	20:48
RST38h	Lynx is damn fast.	20:48
slonopotamus	i didn't say it doesn't work	20:48
guido_g	it's balzingly fast compared to the browser on my e90 :)	20:48
slonopotamus	it is just slow	20:48
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smaug	doesn't feel slow here at all	20:49
smaug	I wonder if MicroB has all the JIT stuff	20:50
smaug	Tracemonkey is faster on ARM than V8, IIRC	20:50
RST38h	AFAIK, jit is disabled by default in microb	20:50
RST38h	someone enabled it and got +30% js performance	20:50
smaug	oh	20:50
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RST38h	But it probably leaks memory like hell	20:50
smaug	microb has old gecko	20:50
smaug	why would it leak memory a lot?	20:51
SpeedEvil	I've wondered how much it would take to speed stuff up given bounties.	20:51
RST38h	well, it feels like the only reason to disble jit by default	20:51
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SpeedEvil	For example 'For each 1% (based on a given metric) of speedup in foo, pushed to upstream patches - you get $100'	20:52
SpeedEvil	And reduce RAM	20:52
smaug	performance testing is hard. Many or most of the testcases I've seen are actually testing something else than the test author thought.	20:53
[Tycho]	eComStation way ? :)	20:53
timeless	kontorri: thememaker doesn't set a background color for active calendar items in week view	20:53
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, compared to? :)	20:54
smaug	timeless: kontorri -> konttori ?	20:54
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SpeedEvil	smaug: Sure. But - say a metric of time to complete page load of 20 leading sites, plus time to navigate to two randomly picked links (picked by a third browser) in each site - say.	20:55
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caratorn	hello, I was wondering if the firmware update has been pushed for everyone,	21:06
caratorn	because I didn't see any software update available on my N900	21:06
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Stskeeps	oh dear @ ovi store snafu	21:10
Stskeeps	it was really possible to just apt-get paid apps? ..	21:10
RST38h	really? =)	21:11
timeless_mbp	smaug: sure, konttori_nokia	21:11
RST38h	that is why I cannot get Angry Birds levels?	21:11
timeless_mbp	the reasons jit wasn't enabled	21:11
slonopotamus	GeneralAntilles, chromium, compared to microb, is blazing fast	21:11
timeless_mbp	were that it wasn't stable, it in certain instances (because it wasn't ready) was crashy	21:11
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, and, how, exactly, are you comparing? :)	21:11
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timeless_mbp	and it was probably bailing in enough cases that it was causing a slowdown	21:12
wazd_e63	Any way to sell something in ovi store without paying zillion bucks to nokla?)	21:12
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GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, ha! I KNEW it	21:12
timeless_mbp	when microb updates to a less ancient gecko, jit should be enabled	21:12
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, did they just obfuscate the package names?	21:12
slonopotamus	GeneralAntilles, by visiting websites. surprize!	21:12
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timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: are you comparing a chromium from 1 year ago, or a chromium from today?	21:12
timeless_mbp	because picking a chromium from today is unfair	21:12
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GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, with Chromium on the N900? :)	21:13
Hexagoon	Hey, anyone more that me having problem with internet connection in SDK?	21:13
slonopotamus	microb on n8x0 from today vs chromium on n8x0 from today, everything fair.	21:13
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: no	21:13
timeless_mbp	that's not a microb from today	21:13
slonopotamus	...	21:13
timeless_mbp	that's a microb from at best june	21:13
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, that's microb_on_n8x0 from today	21:14
slonopotamus	or you have newer one?	21:14
timeless_mbp	oh brother	21:14
timeless_mbp	whose microb?	21:14
timeless_mbp	is this the official nokia microb for diablo?	21:14
timeless_mbp	because that's more like a microb from 2 years ago	21:14
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xorAxAx	chinooks microb sucks on 770 :)	21:14
slonopotamus	that's whay is available from all maemo-related repos	21:14
slonopotamus	s/whay/what/	21:14
infobot	slonopotamus meant: that's what is available from all maemo-related repos	21:14
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: so roughly, you're comparing a browser from two years ago against a browser from _now_	21:15
slonopotamus	so what?	21:15
timeless_mbp	i hope you understand how that comparison is unfair	21:15
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slonopotamus	nokia stopped supporting n8x0	21:15
BluesLee	hello, can someone help with flashing the n900	21:15
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GeneralAntilles	and pointless	21:15
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wazd_e63	Sounds fair)	21:15
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slonopotamus	i'm comparing latest chromium to latest microb on n8x0.	21:15
thresh	duh, i'm unable to register the account on ovi	21:15
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BluesLee	how do i know that the n900 flashs the rootfs, should i see a bar or whatever?	21:16
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: you have to include 'diablo' in your comments	21:16
timeless_mbp	otherwise your statement is incredibly misleading	21:16
BluesLee	i see a black nokia symbol and an usb icon	21:16
timeless_mbp	it isn't the latest version of microb	21:16
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timeless_mbp	it's like saying "i'm comparing the latest firefox [that runs on windows 95] with Chrome"	21:16
Mozillion	Chromium \o/	21:17
synca	hi, what's the server adress to get on this channel using the irc plugin on N900?	21:17
SouBE	should Maemo 5 IM location sharing work? it doesn't update location even when i move from a city to another	21:17
Mozillion	works for me	21:17
timeless_mbp	SouBE: do you have a gps lock?	21:17
Mozillion	maybe it didn't get a fix all this time?	21:17
timeless_mbp	(i.e. a satellite icon)	21:17
GeneralAntilles	synca, chat.freenode.net	21:17
GeneralAntilles	Milhouse, ping?	21:17
SouBE	timeless_mbp: yes	21:17
synca	thx	21:17
timeless_mbp	fwiw, firefox2 required windows 98	21:17
Arkenoi	seems that it does not support location update xmpp extension	21:18
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, you have newer microb running on n8x0?	21:18
Arkenoi	nor google does support it	21:18
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: i think romaxa does	21:18
Arkenoi	so it is close to being useless	21:18
BluesLee	did anyone here flashed his n900?	21:18
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timeless_mbp	SouBE: the sharing we do sticks it into your status/away message	21:18
timeless_mbp	not into some dedicated location field	21:18
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, who is that?	21:18
Mozillion	nope	21:18
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: roughly the key microb engineer	21:18
timeless_mbp	you could do /whois ...	21:19
Mozillion	why is everyone so eager to flash to RP1.0.1 instead of upgrade?	21:19
wazd_e63	romaxa rullez)	21:19
slonopotamus	oh. do users have it? :)	21:19
timeless_mbp	Mozillion: because users are stupid	21:19
GeneralAntilles	Mozillion, and lots of them come from Symbian.	21:19
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, and stop trolling :P you perfectly understood my point.	21:19
SouBE	timeless_mbp: I can see a location message in status field, but location is incorrect	21:19
Mozillion	ok	21:19
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Mozillion	so, maybe it should be mentioned that upgrading is just as fine and more convenient?	21:20
SouBE	timeless_mbp: it hasn't updated location in the last 12 hours	21:20
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: my point is that you should not talk about 'microb' in the abstract without clearly indicating that you're talking about an old version of microb	21:20
timeless_mbp	what you're really complaining about is nokia management	21:20
BluesLee	Mozillion: thats not correct, i want to flash the initial firmware	21:20
timeless_mbp	and you're free to do so	21:20
timeless_mbp	i will not complain if you do that	21:20
timeless_mbp	although, i'd rather you complain to nokia care	21:21
timeless_mbp	since that'd be more useful than just ranting here	21:21
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, i'm talking about latest microb version available in maemo.	21:21
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: um	21:21
timeless_mbp	what does javascript:navigator.userAgent say for you?	21:21
JamieBennett	anyone know if the script that produces - http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/4.1.2_vs_5.0_content_changes.html - is available somewhere?	21:21
slonopotamus	and latest chromium available in gentoo :)	21:21
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, Maemo _WHAT_?	21:21
BluesLee	Mozillion: i had to struggle freeing 25 mb for RP1.0.1 and as i want RP1.1 in the end which needs 45 mb i have to do a cleanup and avoid devel repo	21:22
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, you know what the problem is with your position. YOU stop trolling.	21:22
Mozillion	BluesLee: I know.. that's fine to reset it	21:22
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wazd_e63	N	21:22
Mozillion	I just was reminded by the hordes of people asking to flash	21:22
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Mozillion	PR1.0.1 contains an optification of Python.. I had much more free space afterwards	21:22
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timeless_mbp	JamieBennett: as scripts go, that one shouldn't be particularly interesting	21:23
Mozillion	well... a bit more :)	21:23
timeless_mbp	it's roughly dpkg -l	21:23
timeless_mbp	dpkg -l	21:23
timeless_mbp	and then a fairly simple diff rule	21:23
BluesLee	Mozillion: it was about 3mb for me, i only see an usb symbol in the right corner no message nothing more	21:23
timeless_mbp	for any package missing from the older field they print 'N/A'	21:23
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timeless_mbp	and for any package missing from the newer field they print 'Removed'	21:23
GeneralAntilles	Mozillion, no Maemo release contains Python.	21:23
Arkenoi	where is my updaaaate?	21:23
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Mozillion	also... apt-cache show the installed size, as is normal in Debian.. but maybe we should have something to see the root size	21:23
JamieBennett	timeless_mbp: yep it uses a .css file to render the html, it would be nice to have rather than write my own :)	21:23
BluesLee	okay, let me ask following: did anyone flashed a nxxx device yet?	21:24
Mozillion	GeneralAntilles: no? it was maemo extras?	21:24
GeneralAntilles	Mozillion, yes.	21:24
synca	hmmm ok can anyone explain me how to get irc working on the N900?	21:24
Mozillion	the thing was.. I read a bunch about update	21:24
Mozillion	about the update*.. but didn't get any.. no notification, app manager showed nothing on manual update	21:25
timeless_mbp	synca: locally or remotely?	21:25
timeless_mbp	locally you could install xchat	21:25
Mozillion	then I did 'apt-get dist-upgrade' and suddenly saw that there were updates	21:25
timeless_mbp	personally, i go w/ remotely	21:25
Mozillion	but I couldn't distinguish extras from the PR1.0.1, my mistake	21:25
synca	timeless_mbp and what's th difference?	21:26
timeless_mbp	well, remote irc clients are less likely to be graphical	21:26
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Mozillion	I found xchat locally not nice to use (yet)	21:26
timeless_mbp	but if you use a local irc client and your network connection changes, you lose your irc connections	21:26
Mozillion	irssi locally works better IMO	21:26
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Mozillion	connecting to a remote IRC proxy ;)	21:27
timeless_mbp	w/ a remote irc client, you don't lose your connections when you change networks (although you do have to reconnect to your irc client)	21:27
Mozillion	indeed, timeless_mbp	21:27
slonopotamus	GeneralAntilles, maemo diablo.latest one available for n8x0.	21:27
timeless_mbp	or you could use an irc proxy, your choice	21:27
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BluesLee	okay, works now	21:27
BluesLee	someone should update the wiki	21:28
synca	let's start of locally then, 'cause I don't have a 3G plan yet, so I'm eather at home or at work on wifi	21:29
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timeless_mbp	synca: xchat is in one or more of the extras repositories	21:29
Robot101	\o/	21:29
BluesLee	hehe, the nokia hands are back	21:29
timeless_mbp	somewhere on *.maemo.org is an explanation of how things work	21:29
Robot101	Telepathy file transfer app uploaded to maemo extras devel	21:29
Robot101	:)	21:29
timeless_mbp	BluesLee: wanna replace it with a maemo.org splash?	21:30
ruskie	so when do we get telepathy-otr then?	21:30
synca	do i need the irc protocol plugin?	21:30
Stskeeps	Robot101: does it support skype file transfer?	21:30
* timeless_mbp has a package (in a repository) for that		21:30
Stskeeps	and why isn't that a sharing plugin? :P	21:30
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Using 0.0.2?	21:30
Robot101	Stskeeps: libsharing is fucking bonghits, we couldn't make it work without the source	21:30
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Robot101	Stskeeps: it makes threads for the plugins which is a total pile of crap for gtk apps	21:31
evo	hi, any vagalume users here? From what I read online I didn't get if you can listen to and scrobble the n900 library too	21:31
Arkenoi	ah, see it via dist-upgrade. but i do not have enough space, is it safe to relink /var/cache/apt/archives to, say, /home/archives?	21:31
dymaxion	anyone else experience apt-worker backend killingi the CPU on the N900 ? I've seen it grind at 90% for ages.. when installing apps...	21:31
timeless_mbp	dymaxion: why would that be bad?	21:31
Robot101	Stskeeps: gonna see if we can get the source to fix it	21:31
timeless_mbp	apt-worker is responsible for doing your installation...	21:32
dymaxion	because the device becomes non-responsive... for like 5mins...	21:32
Robot101	Stskeeps: and as for skype... good idea. I think they might be busy doing something else though	21:32
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, not then, am now. ;)	21:32
dymaxion	should install in a few secs... for some reason it gets itself really stuck...	21:32
BluesLee	timeless_mbp: i did that before, after reflashing i have the nokia hands	21:32
GeneralAntilles	Arkenoi, did you remove the OS metapackage?	21:32
Mozillion	omg! apt-get clean doesn't get run?	21:32
timeless_mbp	BluesLee: if you backed up your applications	21:32
timeless_mbp	you could restore from backup and it'd grab the package and get rid of hands :)	21:33
BluesLee	timeless_mbp: maemo.org flyby splash is a very good one	21:33
Arkenoi	GeneralAntilles, nope, should i?	21:33
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, you want an Extras component, by the way?	21:33
dymaxion	eg. I was donwloading a new theme from ovi store... it got stuck on "preparing for installation", wouldnlt respond to any screenpresses... for 5mins	21:33
ruskie	I hope sharing-plugin-cli will get done soon	21:33
GeneralAntilles	Arkenoi, well, it would explain why you aren't seeing the update if you removed it.	21:33
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Arkenoi	no	21:33
dymaxion	I eventally got a terminal open to run top (pressing ctrlL- <--)	21:33
BluesLee	timeless_mbp: i didnt backuped anything because i wanted to get rid of all the apps eating up /	21:33
timeless_mbp	Jaffa / GeneralAntilles : someone needs to help me get my splash package into extras	21:33
timeless_mbp	BluesLee: ah	21:33
BluesLee	timeless_mbp: only some mods for kbd	21:33
* dymaxion guesses that noone else has seen this problem... hmm..		21:34
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Arkenoi	so what about apt archives, does it break something if i replace it with link to another directory?	21:34
timeless_mbp	dymaxion: so, what repositories do you have enabled?	21:34
GeneralAntilles	Arkenoi, no.	21:34
Arkenoi	to a different filesystem, say, /home	21:34
Arkenoi	ok, so i will do now	21:34
GeneralAntilles	Arkenoi, but it doesn't fix why you aren't seeing the update.	21:34
timeless_mbp	having extras-devel/extras-testing enabled is hazardous to performance during installation of stuff	21:34
dymaxion	all the normal repos, + the dev , testing ones...	21:34
GeneralAntilles	Arkenoi, try apt-get install mp-fremantle-generic-pr	21:35
timeless_mbp	dymaxion: see, there's your problem :)	21:35
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thresh	angry birds rule	21:35
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dymaxion	timeless :-) you think it's timing out on one of the dev repos ?	21:35
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Arkenoi	GeneralAntilles, hmm, gonna install 18.9Mb, is it the update? how does it differ from dist-upgrade?	21:36
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GeneralAntilles	Arkenoi, that's the update.	21:36
GeneralAntilles	Arkenoi, I think you did remove the OS metapackage.	21:37
RST38h	oh	21:37
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Arkenoi	i am sure i did not, maybe rst38h did while playing with my phone ;-))	21:37
timeless_mbp	dymaxion: it generally does :)	21:37
RST38h	I did?	21:37
dymaxion	either way apt-get worker shouldbn't eat up so much CPU that OS becomes completely frozen...	21:37
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dymaxion	should yield to the task switcher function at least!	21:38
dymaxion	bug report ? what u reckon?	21:38
Arkenoi	RST38h, just a joke, but nobody else played with my phone app installer ;-))	21:38
Mozillion	need space on your n900 after installing & deinstalling apps.. you might want to run apt-get autoclean	21:38
RST38h	mmm	21:39
Mozillion	I'm really WTF that that doesn't happen	21:39
Mozillion	.. automatically	21:39
Trizt	is there a way to make claws-mail as the default mail client (clicking on an e-mail address in contact book opens claws)?	21:39
dymaxion	you guys reckon claws mail is better than modest? last time I checked it wasn't very finger friendly? modest on N900 drives me mad!	21:40
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dymaxion	1) no search 2) no multiple email delete 3) when deleting one email it refreshes the entire inbox... takes ages !	21:41
Mozillion	no multiple email delete?	21:41
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GeneralAntilles	Mozillion, h-a-m does it automatically.	21:41
Mozillion	(1) and (3) are a pain, yes	21:41
Trizt	modest eats up all my ram when I try to connect to my mailbox (imaps) and never shows any mail, so it's quite useless for me	21:41
GeneralAntilles	Mozillion, but only for stuff installed through it.	21:41
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Mozillion	GeneralAntilles: ah yes.. so for some reason it was unaware of the update	21:42
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SyncA	ok, on from xchat	21:42
ruskie	hmm can't update extras-devel	21:43
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Mozillion	SyncA: yay!	21:43
Arkenoi	thanks, updated successfully	21:43
dymaxion	Mozillion, i foro sure can't find a function where I can checkbox all the emailsl I want to delete then zap them all... have to do one by one! grrr :-(	21:43
SyncA	can this xchat support multiple servers?	21:44
Mozillion	dymaxion: I can.. press on the title bar, delete and click them	21:44
Mozillion	SyncA: it does	21:44
SyncA	nice!	21:44
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dymaxion	oh silly me! well still 1) and 3) are a pain :-)	21:45
Mozillion	dymaxion: also when you delete multiple you have to wait	21:45
* dymaxion thinks threaded emails would be nice too		21:46
Trizt	alpine would have been nice	21:46
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tigert	isnt modest free software?	21:47
tigert	hack away? :)	21:47
SpeedEvil	Angry Birds should clearly have a twitter component.	21:47
johnsu01	the email client has really been failing me	21:48
Trizt	tigert; and thgen you hacked fixed version will be overwritten next time you update the firmware	21:48
tigert	SpeedEvil: "Ooof" "Boom!" "Snort!"	21:48
johnsu01	recently none of the messages marked as read in the client were marked read on the imap server	21:48
Arkenoi	btw apt-get dist-upgrade still offers a lot of stuff to install, should i agree? ;-)	21:48
tigert	Trizt: so, then you reinstall it like other apps	21:48
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tigert	Arkenoi: NO	21:49
dymaxion	you know how iPhones have customised webpages for many sites (more finger friendly) --- was wondering if you could tell the browser to identify itself as an iphone and thus receive the iphone version of gmail website and other sites for example...	21:49
tigert	Arkenoi: dont do that	21:49
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Trizt	tigert; better to have a way to define your default mailer	21:49
tigert	Arkenoi: it looks like debian but it is not debian	21:49
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SpeedEvil	I wonder how badly it explodes if you dio that	21:49
tigert	dist-upgrade is not something you should do	21:50
wazd_e63	Back from the dungeon	21:50
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Arkenoi	tigert: so what are that packages and what's wrong with them?	21:50
GeneralAntilles	Arkenoi, with the right (i.e., wrong) repos you'll drop yourself in a reboot loop.	21:50
SyncA	I have this problem with microB, when your screen locks with the keyboard open, you can unlock by tapping the screen, but when you accidently hit a link (on the black screen) it opens th link	21:50
johnsu01	heh, I just did a dist-upgrade last night	21:50
GeneralAntilles	Likely they conflict with most of the core system packages.	21:50
Arkenoi	ah	21:50
SyncA	think it wasn't like that before the update...	21:50
Hardknox	new firmware update was my nightmare	21:51
Hardknox	phone hangs every time when I unlock keys arghhhhh	21:51
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SyncA	how can I find out if this bug is filed yet?	21:52
tigert	the setup is not like debian, but rather a metapkg depends on certain versions of everything	21:52
Arkenoi	do all qt-based application start 3 seconds or more or just some? ;-)	21:52
tigert	so app manager can know you have a known setup of stuff when you get an update	21:52
RST38h	probably all	21:52
Arkenoi	then qt is evil	21:52
tigert	its not supposed to work with dist-upgrade	21:52
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Arkenoi	it affects user experience much. it is generally acceptable delay, but actually it should not be	21:53
TTilus	say i wanted to programmatically poke with maemo5 contacts database, how would i go about that?	21:53
Arkenoi	or is there any way to speed that up?	21:53
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tigert	TTilus: its sqlite iirc, but i guess there are apis too?	21:54
alterego	TTilus, there's a library for contacts, check the API documentation on tthe maemo site.	21:54
TTilus	cool!	21:54
TTilus	alterego, tigert: thanks	21:54
tigert	its evolution-dataserver unless my knowledge is too old :)	21:55
Arkenoi	RST38h, may prelink help?	21:56
Hardknox	where are you from?	21:56
ruskie	yeah contacts is eds	21:57
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ruskie	calendar is sqlite	21:57
Arkenoi	Xarchiver is ugly. Is there an alternative?	21:58
ruskie	port the GUI to hildon?	21:58
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RST38h	Arkenoi: prolly	21:59
Hardknox	I gues I understand... In this room just talking about programming	21:59
ruskie	nope	21:59
t7g__	that's #maemo-devel, this is just kinda a general channel, the others aren't as filled or as active	21:59
ruskie	even -devel is more of a quiet spot	22:00
ruskie	not really coding specific I'd say	22:00
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Hardknox	OK	22:00
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Hardknox	Is someone can tell me why my phone After the upgrade so it hangs	22:02
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* microlith sweeps pidgin off his phone		22:03
Hardknox	whatever...	22:03
Hardknox	I thought that the amendments are to fix bugs :(	22:04
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SyncA	any help on adding a server in xchat that is not in the default list? can't seem to find info on using xchat on t.m.o	22:06
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SyncA	just a sec, might be getting somewhere	22:09
andre__	SyncA: Xchat > Network List > Add ???	22:09
bilboed	pierlux, love your description of map buddy on the website :)	22:09
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pierlux	bilboed, it's all facts :)	22:11
SyncA	andre__, found that out already, couldn't save the server adress, made it work	22:11
bilboed	pierlux, sadly true I know :(	22:12
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gevaerts	Is there a tutorial somewhere that describes how to convert a standard fullscreen sdl app to behave more or less nicely on maemo5?	22:13
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timeless_mbp	dymaxion: you can change microb's useragent to get iphone content	22:14
timeless_mbp	it does work, sometimes	22:14
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timeless_mbp	and sometimes you'll get junk for various reasons	22:14
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timeless_mbp	as for threading... threading is a bad idea on space constrained systems, what you want is google conversations	22:15
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SpeedEvil	tin.	22:15
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, hey, can we get an en_US localized package name for Catorise? :D	22:15
timeless_mbp	SyncA: so about screen blanking	22:16
timeless_mbp	the problem is iirc that the screen goes away on mouse down	22:16
Arkenoi	but i did not get more free space after update, it remains the same	22:16
timeless_mbp	but lets the mouse up and click events through	22:16
returnthis	question: I just installed scratch box, but there is no run_me_first.sh	22:16
timeless_mbp	which is what the browser sees	22:16
timeless_mbp	this is not a new feature	22:16
timeless_mbp	you're just imagining that it wasn't there before	22:16
timeless_mbp	bugs.maemo.org is our bug database	22:17
SyncA	might be so yes, not shure	22:17
returnthis	where do I get that? or do I have to rm -fr /scratchbox and start again?	22:17
timeless_mbp	you're free to file it, but you won't get much more of a response other than me moving it to the Desktop side with a note "it's their fault, their screen blanker sucks"	22:17
timeless_mbp	heck, now that i've told you this, if you file it in the browser component, i'll yell directly at you :)	22:17
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timeless_mbp	i.e. it's a bug in the screen blanker, and i don't want it in my component :)	22:18
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timeless_mbp	(i'm sure there's an internal bug for it, andre__ or someone will pair a number for it)	22:18
t7g__	I take it python would be fast enough on n900 to run an AngryBirds clone right? (Not sure how intense the physics calcs are)	22:18
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timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: re enus catoise, glad to see you asking :)	22:18
SyncA	timeless_mbp, that's why I wanted to ask the question here first, couldn't imagine me beeing the first to notice	22:19
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, I'm tempted to create an Extras product just to file that enhancement.	22:20
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SyncA	but couldn't find anything on it on T.M.O	22:20
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timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: go for it :)	22:20
SpeedEvil	t7g__: 30 or so objects interacting at 30hz or so - and painting at 25fps or so.	22:21
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odin_	any gitorious.org users on ? or GIT users even ? "warning: remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref, unable to checkout." from trying to "git clone git://gitorious.org/modest/wpeditor.git"	22:22
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timeless_mbp	odin_: awesome	22:23
Trizt	is there something wrong with maep or is the gps that lousy on the n900 that it shows 500m wrong?	22:23
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timeless_mbp	odin_: http://www.mail-archive.com/gitorious@googlegroups.com/msg00228.html	22:24
briglia	hi all. I'm trying to use gconf to set inhibit_blank_mode value to 1 in order to avoid backlight be turned off but seems that it is not working... anyone knows what is wrong?	22:24
ShadowJK	Well it depends on whether it's actually using the gps or not	22:24
GeneralAntilles	Trizt, are you indoors?	22:24
Trizt	yes	22:25
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, um, GPS doesn't generally work well indoors. :)	22:25
ShadowJK	indoors it wouldn't get gps signal, and it would be displaying its best guess based on cellphone signals :)	22:25
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timeless_mbp	briglia: why? :)	22:26
Trizt	can't they use stronger signal on the satellites? I guess there is a requirement for a new gps module when the European system is up (2099?)	22:26
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briglia	timeless_mbp, I'm testing some gconf + Qt application stuff	22:27
timeless_mbp	Trizt: do you really want an em wave to blanket the entire globe that is strong enough to go through a 5 story building?	22:27
ShadowJK	it's too late to change the satellites in space ;)	22:27
SyncA	trizt did you compare the signal to any standalone gps?	22:27
odin_	timeless_mbp, thanks for link, I guess someone with read-write access needs to fix it ?	22:28
Trizt	timeless_mbp; it's enough if it gets thru a thin outer wall	22:28
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timeless_mbp	odin_: the first google hit was for github	22:28
SyncA	ShadowJK, it's never to late!.-)	22:28
timeless_mbp	and had a way you could work around the problem locally	22:28
Trizt	SyncA; nope, don't have one, so a bit difficult	22:28
timeless_mbp	roughly "when you get an error message, google it"	22:28
angasuleN810	timeless_mbp, think how muuch easier it would be to microwave stuff!	22:28
timeless_mbp	...	22:29
odin_	timeless_mbp, but other GIT repos just work fine... are you saying its a local GIT configuration problem?	22:29
timeless_mbp	but i don't want my popcorn burnt :)	22:29
timeless_mbp	odin_: roughly, yes	22:29
SyncA	trizt, my guess is it will have the same outcome, without cellbased location	22:29
timeless_mbp	i'm also saying i don't work on git	22:29
* timeless_mbp does work on hg		22:29
mikhas	odin_, usually it happens when a remote repo has no master branch (i.e., the default branch)	22:29
ShadowJK	location-test-gui from sdk tools repo also displays estimated accuracy :)	22:29
timeless_mbp	odin_: roughly the repository is configured to be annoying	22:30
mikhas	specify the branch, and it should work	22:30
timeless_mbp	it's like SVN	22:30
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timeless_mbp	lots of branches and no hint about which ones actually matter	22:30
mikhas	trolling much?	22:30
mikhas	=p	22:30
mikhas	not many manage to delete their master branch, only some	22:30
timeless_mbp	mikhas: sorry, i think i've earned the right to curse svn	22:30
timeless_mbp	mikhas: shrug google found enough who managed it	22:31
mikhas	oh sure, curse svn as much as you want of course!	22:31
odin_	timeless_mbp, I'm more interested in getting the repos fixed if it needs to be fixed, I don't work with GIT either (this is the only and first project I run 'git' on) but the other 2 projects cloned out of gitorious.org just like the instruction documents indicated	22:31
timeless_mbp	thanks :)	22:31
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mikhas	odin_, without commit rights this could be hard	22:31
timeless_mbp	odin_: roughly "yes, to fix it properly, someone w/ write access needs to do something"	22:31
timeless_mbp	you can work around it locally	22:31
timeless_mbp	i'd file a bug if i were you	22:32
odin_	ok, I have emailed someone with read-write access (and owner of modest about it, so...)	22:32
* Trizt quits trolling for today and goes and dreams that next maemo update will be out so he can use his n900 as a phone		22:32
timeless_mbp	Trizt: are you a 3 user?	22:32
* Trizt nods		22:32
timeless_mbp	odin_: seriously, file a bug	22:32
timeless_mbp	stuff like this should be tracked publicly	22:32
mikhas	yeah, not having master is just lame	22:32
odin_	timeless_mbp, another one, but I've already dont maybe 10 today	22:33
odin_	s/dont/done	22:33
timeless_mbp	odin_: we reward bug filers	22:33
timeless_mbp	you can get a pretty tshirt	22:33
timeless_mbp	sometimes you might even get early access to software or hardware	22:33
timeless_mbp	or discounts	22:33
timeless_mbp	filing good bugs is good	22:33
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odin_	I'm more interested in fixing/porting/writing code than filing bugs :)	22:33
mikhas	and if you die while filing a bug you get 72 virgins	22:34
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* SyncA thinking of how to die while filing a bug...		22:35
odin_	I'll give the modest maintainer some more time first, not sure a repo issue needs a bug just yet :)	22:35
timeless_mbp	odin_: it really does	22:35
Gadgetoid_mbp	Has anyone got 3 stars in Angry Birds level 15 yet?	22:35
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timeless_mbp	if only to collect comments and explanations	22:35
simula_	SyncA, those virgins are other developers	22:35
odin_	ok then you asked for it	22:36
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gerrymoth	@Gadgetoid_mbp>	22:36
timeless_mbp	mikhas can share his git wisdom once you file the bug :)	22:37
SyncA	simula_, ok, leave it then;-)	22:37
Gadgetoid_mbp	gerrymoth: it's a tough level to crack	22:37
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pierlux	Red Pill mode has been removed in 1.2009.44-1 N900 firmware. WHY! :(	22:38
Stskeeps	cos red pill messes devices	22:38
GeneralAntilles	^	22:38
GeneralAntilles	pierlux, you don't need it.	22:38
Hexagoon	pierlux: cause it isnt needed ? :)	22:38
Stskeeps	konttori_nokia: any special reason your optification first happens under /usr/share/themes/directoryname?	22:38
gerrymoth	i got 3 stars in level 15 of Angry Birds :)	22:38
timeless_mbp	pierlux: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7858#c11	22:39
povbot`	Bug 7858: cant see 1.2009.44-1 software update	22:39
GeneralAntilles	pierlux, if you think you need it, you're doing things incorrectly.	22:39
ShadowJK	Because it stupid and dangerous and entirely pointless	22:39
timeless_mbp	redpill lets users do stupid things like that	22:39
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pierlux	it was useful to install debs from the UI	22:39
RST38h	pierlux: To prevent you from being ELEET	22:39
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* pierlux installs rootsh		22:39
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, eL33t, you mean.	22:39
timeless_mbp	pierlux: you shouldn't really be installing debs from the ui	22:39
timeless_mbp	you should be installing them from a repo	22:39
Hexagoon	i always had to correct dependecies using terminal after installing with red pill anyways.. totally useless	22:40
timeless_mbp	if that means creating your own repo and adding it, so be it	22:40
pierlux	timeless_mbp, as a dev I have to tests the software I write :P	22:40
timeless_mbp	pierlux: so do i	22:40
gevaerts	gerrymoth: how?	22:40
timeless_mbp	i maintain 2 repos	22:40
timeless_mbp	one for my customers, one for me to test	22:40
timeless_mbp	actually, that's false	22:40
timeless_mbp	i have ~5 repos	22:40
timeless_mbp	some are for bugs :)	22:40
timeless_mbp	i have a package that includes its own repo :)	22:40
phr	hmm, these guys say there's a new dell coupon code ($469 for n900) but it doesn't seem to work	22:40
odin_	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7936 "clone of /modest/wpeditor.git fails with: remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref, unable to checkout."	22:40
povbot`	Bug 7936: clone of /modest/wpeditor.git fails with: remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref, unable to checkout.	22:40
phr	http://thenokiablog.com/2010/01/13/nokia-n900-469-dell-coupon/	22:41
gerrymoth	Angry Birds Level 15: Best bet is to go high and bring the birds down in the middle	22:41
frals	as a dev you probably know how to do dpkg -i for installing your own package tbh	22:41
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villager	Gadgetoid_mbp: since you asked, I loaded up angry birds and tried level, played it for fun, and somehow scored 3 stars... killed all 3 pigs with 2 shots	22:41
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timeless_mbp	http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/double-dep-repo/	22:41
Gadgetoid_mbp	villager: hahaha, damn	22:41
timeless_mbp	is a repo created just for testing a bug :)	22:41
timeless_mbp	well, rather, it's a package that contains a repo for testing a bug	22:42
Stskeeps	wazd!	22:42
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timeless_mbp	(it is not a repo a normal person should enable, but the point is: it isn't hard to maintain your own repos)	22:42
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ShadowJK	I thought "developers" would find app manager and GUIs in general too slow and cumbersome to incorporate in any build-test cycle when you can just install openssh-server :)	22:43
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: for my stuff, i use the gui because i'm working w/ strings	22:44
timeless_mbp	so i need to test as many strings as possible :)	22:44
angasuleN810	I know I saw the option to stop music if headphones are unplugged, but I can't find it now	22:44
frals	ShadowJK: yeah, ssh is a must for on device testing for me	22:44
timeless_mbp	angasuleN810: in the n810?	22:44
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timeless_mbp	that doesn't sound familiar	22:44
timeless_mbp	and i translated it	22:44
timeless_mbp	(not for nokia, on my own)	22:44
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angasuleN810	yes	22:44
mtnbkr	angasuleN810: heh what about the option to be able to control the volume and or stop/start/ music using buttons on headphone cord? That would be nice	22:45
angasuleN810	maybe it was specific to an app	22:45
mikhas	odin_, replied	22:45
timeless_mbp	angasuleN810: probably	22:45
timeless_mbp	i don't use third party apps much :)	22:45
timeless_mbp	mtnbkr: those are generally proprietary	22:45
timeless_mbp	and require a large amount of work	22:46
timeless_mbp	you're welcome to look into doing it	22:46
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mtnbkr	timeless_mbp: I am referring to the ear buds that came with my N900	22:46
timeless_mbp	but i think the estimate was 3 months and a couple of engineers	22:46
mtnbkr	:(	22:46
timeless_mbp	not counting testers	22:46
dymaxion	anyone had any problems with USB charging? I've found that if i leave the N900 plugged into the USB port of my computer for ages... eventually it just locks up and becomes really unresponsive......	22:46
ShadowJK	the AD-54 (iirc) dont even product the signaling noise :/	22:46
angasuleN810	timeless, I'd like it for canola :-)	22:46
timeless_mbp	angasuleN810: it requires work from kernel on up	22:46
dymaxion	(i have to shutdown) - can someone do this test for me, and see if they get the same problem... if so I'll file a bug report.	22:47
villager	Gadgetoid_mbp, gerrymoth: I scored 3 stars by going head-on, though I guess it was mostly luck... first scatter-shot against the first pillar brought it crashing down to the left, and also killed the pig behind it somehow... then the second scatter-shot hit both the remaining two pigs	22:47
mtnbkr	dymaxion: sometimes when I plug in th eusb nothing happens. I need to unplug and re-plug to make sure that charging starts	22:47
Gadgetoid_mbp	villager: Maybe I'm trying too hard!	22:47
Gadgetoid_mbp	My daughter got through the first 6-7 levels with blind luck	22:47
timeless_mbp	heh	22:47
timeless_mbp	Gadgetoid_mbp: i take it you've purchased more?	22:48
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timeless_mbp	did she lose interest, or will she play again?	22:48
dymaxion	1) plug usb cable into linux pc, 2) on N900 dismiss the pop up window (selecting neither button) 3) in linux desktop ignore / close any prompts about media 4) leave it plugged in for 15mins+ 5) then try to slide open the N900 or slide lock on side...	22:48
Gadgetoid_mbp	timeless_mbp: nah, I bought the whole game on the iPhone for 59p	22:48
angasuleN810	timeless_mbp, bummer, it'd be nice	22:48
Gadgetoid_mbp	And she's addicted to it	22:48
dymaxion	I'm not sure if it's one particular app i've installed causing this problem... or somethign more core to the maemo OS and USB charging	22:48
nhg	Can someone please tell me what's the equivalent for the "synaptics package manager" in Ubuntu for Maemo?	22:48
Gadgetoid_mbp	I couldn't wrench my phone off her, so I had to grab it onto both iPhones... we were all sat playing it earlier... dangerously good game	22:49
timeless_mbp	nhg: eh?	22:49
timeless_mbp	hildon-application-manager aka HAM	22:49
dymaxion	running top shows nothign using much cpu (at most 10%), but as soon I as hit any maemo buttons or menus, it grinds...	22:49
angasuleN810	nethack!	22:49
mtnbkr	dymaxion: I do this all the time with my N900 (and Gentoo Linux machine) and phone never hangs/loks as you describe	22:49
timeless_mbp	aka 'app. manager' or 'app manager' or 'Add/Remove' depending on your localization	22:49
timeless_mbp	unless you mean "a more powerful one"	22:49
Gadgetoid_mbp	HAHAHHAHA the tower on the left just wobbles for about 30 seconds before FINALLY collapsing and scoring me my 3 stars	22:49
timeless_mbp	in which case "more powerful will break things"	22:49
Gadgetoid_mbp	Just 18 and 21 to go now	22:50
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timeless_mbp	Gadgetoid_mbp: you can play levels out of order?	22:50
Gadgetoid_mbp	I've completed them all now, just trying to get 3 star ratings	22:50
angasuleN810	what does mbp stand for? my beautiful pony?	22:50
timeless_mbp	MacBook Pro	22:50
* GeneralAntilles goes down for a software update.		22:50
timeless_mbp	but yeah, they're beautiful	22:50
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dymaxion	mtnbkr, when you do that... is your N900 connected to any wireless networks?	22:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	I hate level 18	22:51
mtnbkr	dymaxion: yes.	22:51
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* timeless_mbp feels like turning on elizabot for Gadgetoid_mbp		22:51
dymaxion	I get the feeling there's somethign wrong with the network stack or network manager... because I just terminated my wifi connection and the N900 suddenly became responsive again	22:51
timeless_mbp	"What makes you feel this way?"	22:51
Stskeeps	is debian/optify enabled on autobuilder these days?	22:51
* gevaerts spent ages on 18		22:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	timeless_mbp: Hahahahahaha, would probably chat to it all day	22:51
nhg	timeless_mbp: couldn't get the app manager to work yet on our setup...possibly due to proxy not being setup....manually installing packages from maemo.org cause dependency issues.	22:51
dymaxion	mtnbkr, I'm connecting however not to a standard router... an ad-hoc WEP network served from my laptop	22:52
gevaerts	I do have 3 stars there though :)	22:52
dymaxion	perhaps there'sa bug there somewhere...	22:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	gevaerts: it's evil, evil	22:52
timeless_mbp	nhg: are you on an n900 or using the sdk?	22:52
dymaxion	mtnbkr, could you try doing the same on your gentoo box? thank,s	22:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	I've managed to 3 star most levels with one shot, I wish it logged which ones though	22:52
mtnbkr	dymaxion: my wifi is WRT54GL running dd-wrt w/WPA	22:52
nhg	timeless_mbp: omapzoom	22:52
dymaxion	mtnbkr, perhaps it's specific to WEP and ad-hoc networks - PC to PC	22:53
timeless_mbp	interesting	22:53
* lupine_85 is confuzzled by the choice of software in the repos		22:53
mtnbkr	dymaxion: generally my N900 "just works" but I have seen times when it WILL NOT connect to Wifi, not Edge to get IP address. I need to power off and restart. This happens sometimes...	22:53
lupine_85	wget yes, screen no	22:53
timeless_mbp	nhg: if i were you, i'd ask for help from the #mer people	22:53
nhg	ok thx	22:53
woglinde	ad-hoc mode and filetransfer is hell	22:53
mtnbkr	s/not Edge/NOR Edge/	22:54
infobot	mtnbkr meant: dymaxion: generally my N900 "just works" but I have seen times when it WILL NOT connect to Wifi, NOR Edge to get IP address. I need to power off and restart. This happens sometimes...	22:54
RST38h	"Microsoft predicts Linux will fail mobile 'quality' test"	22:54
* RST38h ROTFLs		22:54
mtnbkr	wow this infobot is cool (and smart)	22:54
Gadgetoid_mbp	Microsoft failed the mobile quality test	22:54
RST38h	Coming from a company that subjects us to WinMobile...	22:54
* dymaxion 's N900 just works apart from this hanging issue.... (the connection is fine... ) nothing wrongn with connecting to the ad-hoc wep wifi network... just after a while.... when the N900 sleeps... it then grinds on wake up		22:54
Gadgetoid_mbp	RST38h: they don't do much of that anymore	22:54
mtnbkr	RST38h: I have Ignored ANYTHING microsoft has said since 1991 - seriously. Nothing but lies and FUD	22:54
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angasuleN810	wasn't it lies and FUD before too? :-P	22:55
* dymaxion would love another N900 to test his theory.... will test more specifically with his home wifi router as soon as he leaves office :-/		22:55
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angasuleN810	letter to hobbiests, etc	22:55
* gevaerts now has 3 stars on 15 \☺/		22:55
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mtnbkr	angasuleN810: LOL! Of course! Its just that I started ignoring them since '91 heh	22:56
angasuleN810	heh	22:56
* dymaxion saw a friend's HTC HD2 the other day... wow what a big screen and such a slim phone! (wishes the N900 was more that sort of size + keyboard)		22:56
Gadgetoid_mbp	Arrrghh! 46k on 18 and still no 3 star, need to perfectly 4 shot it	22:56
user__	ah my network connection the in the hotel is crap	22:56
mtnbkr	dymaxion: ask him if he can multitask ;)	22:57
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Ah, just perfectly four shot it	22:57
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Gadgetoid_mbp	:D	22:57
angasuleN810	I'm becoming a master of bobbly volley	22:57
mtnbkr	Gadgetoid_mbp: what game are you referring to? and of course, it is avail for me to try on N900?	22:58
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dymaxion	mtnbkr, he showed me his phone switching between apps... and pulled up a windows task manager... hmmm	22:58
Gadgetoid_mbp	mtnbkr: Angry Birds from the Ovi Store	22:58
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mtnbkr	Gadgetoid_mbp: D/Ling now. lol	22:58
angasuleN810	what's the ovi store exactly? paid repo?	22:59
\|R	Gadgetoid_mbp: haha, i finished all levels but now taking a break before trying to 3 stars them all :P	22:59
mtnbkr	angasuleN810: paid and free... Seems mostly some free stuff up there now	22:59
Gadgetoid_mbp	No way, 73800 in the final level and no 3 star rating :(	22:59
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gevaerts	Gadgetoid_mbp: I have 75180 and 3 stars, so you're close	23:00
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lupine_85	hmm, no ruby interpretor?	23:01
lupine_85	interpreter	23:02
lupine_85	stupid words	23:02
zash	interprinator	23:02
inz	inTERMINATOR!	23:02
lupine_85	can't see it being too hard to compile though	23:02
lupine_85	might even do rubinius instead	23:02
timeless_mbp	hi inz	23:04
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mikhas	interpredator?	23:06
ifreq	iPredator	23:06
mikhas	I need that app!	23:06
zash	let's just call it the RUBYNATOR	23:06
mikhas	err producht err whatever	23:06
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inz	timeless, hi	23:10
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mtnbkr	Gadgetoid_mbp: heh angry birds is pretty funny. :)	23:13
SpeedEvil	Is the level pack available still?	23:13
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Gadgetoid_mbp	no SpeedEvil	23:17
Gadgetoid_mbp	It's been pulled temporarily, due to a bug where you could apt-get install it for free	23:17
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* gevaerts still doesn't really understand how that bug could happen		23:18
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Gadgetoid_mbp	T'was a bit fail	23:19
Stskeeps	a bit?	23:19
Stskeeps	:P	23:19
* SpeedEvil is about played out.		23:19
SpeedEvil	On the ~4th play through - trying to get high scores.	23:19
Gadgetoid_mbp	I'm not stopping 'til I've got 3 stars in the final level	23:20
SpeedEvil	And it's getting annoying as pretty much the only way to improve is fluking.	23:20
SpeedEvil	21?	23:20
Gadgetoid_mbp	Then I'm gonna break out my iPhone and do it all over again	23:20
Gadgetoid_mbp	Yeah, it's true SpeedEvil... there's very little skill involved	23:20
SpeedEvil	59840 on last.	23:21
Gadgetoid_mbp	A certain amount of strategy gets you so far, but 3 stars just seems to be the product of a fluke	23:21
SpeedEvil	There are some where there are non-obvious 'easy' ways to get 3	23:21
t7g__	We talking about the birds?	23:21
Gadgetoid_mbp	t7g__: yeah	23:21
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SpeedEvil	10 3 stars so far	23:21
t7g__	Really, we really need to make an open sourced version and call it Irate Penguins	23:21
t7g__	Include level editor	23:22
Gadgetoid_mbp	t7g__: I'm planning that	23:22
Gadgetoid_mbp	For the Pandora though	23:22
Gadgetoid_mbp	Including versus mode	23:22
Stskeeps	t7g__: honestly i think we should applaud the makers of it though	23:22
pronto	oh man this is awesome, docs.google.com works o=	23:22
SpeedEvil	The *lua files look fairly decodable	23:22
SpeedEvil	but, yes.	23:22
Gadgetoid_mbp	With pre-game level editor to build forts	23:22
t7g__	I do,and I will buy the level pack if they ever put it back	23:22
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SpeedEvil	We need to encourage paid-for-apps on the n900.	23:22
SpeedEvil	Though of course free too.	23:22
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mikhas	free-to-pay-for-apps	23:23
Gadgetoid_mbp	Hopefully we'll continue to get only the good titles from the iPhone, wouldn't that be lovely	23:23
Gadgetoid_mbp	iPhone app store is packed with dross	23:23
gevaerts	mikhas: we had those!	23:23
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t7g_	Gadgetoid_mbp, did you see anything asking you what language you're doing it in before I timed out?	23:24
Gadgetoid_mbp	nope	23:24
svanheulen	Is there a way to get Chinese input support on the N900? I see lots of language files in the repositories but I just need a way to type in Chinese.	23:24
Gadgetoid_mbp	I have all the game programming experience of a plush pedo bear	23:24
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t7g_	Well, I'd like to know, what language are you going to do the Pandora clone in? I imagine people on any platform wouldn't mind playing it.	23:25
t7g_	and I agree, fort building would be great at the start for versus, would be an entirely different and awesome game.	23:25
Gadgetoid_mbp	t7g_: definitely!	23:26
SpeedEvil	Multiplayer birds!	23:26
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SpeedEvil	You're given a given number of blocks and stuff.	23:26
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SpeedEvil	And have to make a structure that you can easily destroy, but that others cannot	23:27
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Gadgetoid_mbp	SpeedEvil: exactly that, and you will be able to create arbitrarily sized walls in a selection of materials	23:27
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SpeedEvil	The ideal level is one that you utterly fail at until you get the trick, when you can do it most of the time	23:27
t7g_	Yeah I always figured that the block sizes and types were just specified arbirarily	23:28
svanheulen	so lots of work with childrens games?	23:28
t7g_	A fellow on the forums who was talking about making a level editor for the game itself said the levels were scripted in lua	23:28
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Gadgetoid_mbp	I think it would be a great project for N900/Pandora and it definitely seems to be garnering a lot of interest	23:30
Gadgetoid_mbp	The idea of versus fort building is awesome, as that whole concept doubles as a level editor	23:30
t7g_	I've been looking for a simple yet addictive game to spend time refining some of my other programming skills in	23:30
gevaerts	The levels seem to be in lua bytecode	23:30
Gadgetoid_mbp	I wonder if I should throw up a page or a forum post somewhere outlining it	23:31
pronto	http://pronto185.com/n900/screens/n900-google-docs.png google docs on n900 o=	23:31
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Stskeeps	Gadgetoid_mbp: technically pandora could feed off ovi store.	23:31
t7g_	Well the original AngryBirds could never really live up to what I think we'd all like to do with the concept.	23:31
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Gadgetoid_mbp	t7g_: same with a lot of games	23:31
Gadgetoid_mbp	I hate to undermine such an awesome title, but a versus tower defence style version just begs to be made	23:32
t7g_	I agree, but at least with other games you get a level editor. The non-inclusion of it just makes people want to clone it more.	23:32
t7g_	I'd pay 15-20$ for a level editor	23:32
Gadgetoid_mbp	built the most robust fort you can, save it, and challenge other players to knock it down before you can demolish theirs	23:32
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Doesn't even need to have both players on screen at the same time, unless you want to include things that deflect enemy birds back to their fort and other strategic nonsense	23:33
t7g_	You could turn base it and do it via e-mail or sms	23:34
t7g_	Or some medium that isn't exactly real-time	23:34
Gadgetoid_mbp	You can just swap times	23:34
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Gadgetoid_mbp	With a good online scoreboard/level swapping system... drool	23:37
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LuciusMare	is there a boinc client for maemo?	23:37
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, my thumbs are really confused tapping through the app menu now.	23:38
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SpeedEvil	Hmm. Pick an app, drag it, and let it ping off onto a selected virtual desktop	23:39
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, feel like killing quips?	23:41
timeless_mbp	hrm	23:41
timeless_mbp	are they bad?	23:41
timeless_mbp	or specific quips	23:41
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, specific ones that smell more like spam. https://bugs.maemo.org/quips.cgi?action=show	23:41
GeneralAntilles	"Gmail for N900…Please?"	23:42
Arkenoi	so does prelink really help speeding up application load? did you try?	23:42
GeneralAntilles	Also: "Sir, your history as an iphone user disqualifies you from owning a Maemo device. If you apply for a brain transplant, we are authorised to let you to fill out an appeal form."	23:42
GeneralAntilles	Though funny, it's probably not appropriate.	23:42
timeless_mbp	the gmail one is the last one	23:42
timeless_mbp	oh can you see them in order?	23:42
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GeneralAntilles	It's the last one here.	23:43
timeless_mbp	0 quips approved and 2 quips unapproved	23:43
GeneralAntilles	Thanks	23:44
timeless_mbp	fwiw, those two quippers are not repeat contributors	23:44
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Arkenoi	haha, fancy icons in the app manager	23:44
timeless_mbp	Arkenoi: why is that funny?	23:44
xorAxAx	oh oh	23:45
xorAxAx	i need no-lifeguard-reset	23:45
Arkenoi	not really, just different from ascetic view i got familliar with	23:45
xorAxAx	and hope that i can trouble shoot with it	23:45
bionoid	How can I power off the wlan completely? (N900)	23:48
Stskeeps	offline mode	23:48
Arkenoi	what is that 3d format capsule shows, are there more models someplace?	23:48
bionoid	Stskeeps: But that also kills packet data :(	23:49
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xorAxAx	does anyone know how i can debug a quitting hildon-desktop?	23:52
GeneralAntilles	bionoid, turn of automatic search?	23:52
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Gadgetoid_mbp	http://pandorawiki.org/Mogsvdogs good a place as any to start, I guess	23:53
GeneralAntilles	bionoid, alternative option: I think there's a statusarea applet that will let you switch the cellular radio and the WiFi radio on/off independently.	23:53
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: any idea?	23:53
timeless_mbp	you mean it's dying?	23:53
xorAxAx	yes	23:53
timeless_mbp	well um	23:53
timeless_mbp	you could at least install crash-reporter	23:53
xorAxAx	syslogd?	23:53
timeless_mbp	and send a crash back to nokia	23:54
timeless_mbp	but yeah, sysklogd is my first step	23:54
timeless_mbp	keep in mind that it's bad for battery/storage	23:54
mrmg_	o/	23:54
mrmg_	hi guys	23:54
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xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: crash-reporter will handle my case as soon as hildon-desktop dies?	23:55
xorAxAx	how can i manually start hildon-desktop? just by running it?	23:55
timeless_mbp	well um, i sure hope so	23:55
timeless_mbp	hildon-desktop is supposed to respawn on its own	23:56
bionoid	GeneralAntilles: I looked for one, but I'll look again ;-)	23:56
timeless_mbp	(there's a lifeguard)	23:56
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xorAxAx	well, i saw how it was spawning :)	23:56
xorAxAx	and then it stopped fortunately	23:56
xorAxAx	(am in RD mode currently)	23:57
xorAxAx	wow	23:57
xorAxAx	i started it manually and it didnt crash	23:57
xorAxAx	fun.	23:57
Stskeeps	i'm still wondering how the hell my n900 kept alive when i had pulled the battery	23:58
Stskeeps	(it was on charger)	23:58
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xorAxAx	oops, /usr is missing :)	23:59

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