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| cehteh | note that bash is 2.05b only .. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| PBeck | cehteh: thats not the problem it has worked before without problems | 00:00 |
| PBeck | i think its a game | 00:00 |
| cehteh | if some new programms install newer completion engines which require features not present in that old bash then it will likely barf with that error | 00:00 |
| cehteh | /etc/bash_completion: line 49: s | 00:01 |
| cehteh | .. look at that file, whats there? | 00:01 |
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| PBeck | UNAME=${UNAME/CYGWIN_*/Cygwin} | 00:02 |
| cehteh | i tinhk ${} is a newer bash feature | 00:03 |
| cehteh | comment that line out | 00:03 |
| cehteh | err | 00:03 |
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| PBeck | -sh: /etc/bash_completion: line 53: syntax error: Bad substitution | 00:04 |
| cehteh | i mean tha // replacement | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | // is old | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC | 00:04 |
| cehteh | 2.05? | 00:04 |
| PBeck | # <= is actual | 00:04 |
| cehteh | lemme try | 00:05 |
| PBeck | i think its a other error | 00:05 |
| PBeck | the system was running ok and then - that problem | 00:05 |
| cehteh | yesh ${//} works | 00:05 |
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| cehteh | is UNAME defined? | 00:07 |
| cehteh | well debug that by yourself ;P | 00:07 |
| PBeck | cehteh: sorry ;) | 00:07 |
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| PBeck | cehteh: i have now bash_completition in .bashrc out commented | 00:15 |
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| cehteh | and works? | 00:15 |
| PBeck | cehteh: should i restart and look? :> | 00:15 |
| cehteh | exec bash -l | 00:16 |
| PBeck | that is working :) | 00:16 |
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| PBeck | btw - i have replaced the root shell with chsh for /bin/bash - why can't i do the same for the user? | 00:17 |
| cehteh | huh why not? | 00:17 |
| cehteh | i'Ve done that too | 00:17 |
| cehteh | i also build bash4 recently on the SDK, but not packaged and commented out some features i only need it for a test | 00:18 |
| PBeck | cehteh: the prompt say invalid shell | 00:18 |
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| PBeck | hum argh -.- | 00:18 |
| cehteh | chsh -s bash user | 00:18 |
| PBeck | oh it works ... ;) | 00:18 |
| PBeck | i have thought that it hangs ;) | 00:19 |
| PBeck | cehteh: one moment i test | 00:19 |
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| cehteh | jebba: btw when you build a new kernel can you switch the io scheduler to the deadline scheduler (or noop) | 00:20 |
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| cehteh | i wonder why nokia didnt tweaked that, its just trivial | 00:20 |
| PBeck | cehteh: hey thats works - the user can't change the shell? | 00:21 |
| PBeck | cehteh: i have to be root to change it | 00:21 |
| cehteh | depends on the setup chsh must be suid root | 00:21 |
| PBeck | ah ok thank you cehteh :) | 00:21 |
| PBeck | cehteh: has you coreutils running? | 00:22 |
| PBeck | busybox is a bit ... minimalistic ;) | 00:22 |
| cehteh | nope | 00:22 |
| cehteh | well prolly installed is just use whats there :P | 00:22 |
| cehteh | missing 'less' somewhat | 00:23 |
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| PBeck | cehteh: hehe here the same ;) I miss the colour of ls :( | 00:24 |
| PBeck | cehteh: and a few commands :( hum i have to look for a package | 00:25 |
| SpeedEvil | less is there | 00:27 |
| SpeedEvil | in the tools repo | 00:27 |
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| PBeck | so ok i have to go to bed now ;) | 00:29 |
| PBeck | six hours musst be enough for sleep ;) | 00:30 |
| PBeck | bye bye thank you cehteh | 00:30 |
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| jebba | cehteh: i built a new kernel that included the other schedulers. I think that can be changed dynamically, no? | 00:30 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: uhm i is there an extensive list of available repos? | 00:30 |
| jebba | cehteh: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Keymap | 00:31 |
| cehteh | jebba: yes, but the others dont make much sense for flash devices | 00:31 |
| jebba | anyway, they are all available right now | 00:31 |
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| cehteh | just bloat the kernel :P .. imo deadline could be compiled in and leave all others out | 00:31 |
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| lcuk | cehteh, http://repository.maemo.org/ | 00:33 |
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| cehteh | jebba: S-Space works nice for tab | 00:33 |
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| cehteh | ah tools is from the diablo repository | 00:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/tools free non-free | 00:39 |
| jebba | cehteh: heh, i meant to paste you http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Repositories not the keymap one, but thanks for the good suggesoin! much better;) | 00:40 |
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| dimitris82z | hi all | 00:41 |
| dimitris82z | i am using fedora 12 X64 is there any tutorials or howto install maemo 5 SDK ? | 00:41 |
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| cehteh | jebba: thanks | 00:41 |
| dimitris82z | i got a fatal error on gui installer py | 00:41 |
| TTilus | whats the current status with n900 + nokia su-8w bw keyboard? | 00:42 |
| TTilus | this is the "best" ive seen by this far http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33397 | 00:43 |
| dimitris82z | i am getting this message: Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed! | 00:43 |
| cehteh | jebba: escape on shift return .. i found some keys which have no shift assignment yet .. and for emacs you need escape | 00:43 |
| TTilus | but it still gets me nowhere with fn-keys and "blue" keys | 00:43 |
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| jebba | dimitris82z: see here for docs on using 64bit fedora12 SDK: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Repositories | 00:44 |
| v2px_ | damn :( i forgot my n900 lockcode | 00:44 |
| jebba | gah wrong paste again ;) | 00:44 |
| jebba | dimitris82z: see here: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/SDK | 00:44 |
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| dimitris82z | jebba, thnx man i tried from Gerard Braad howto | 00:45 |
| jebba | cehteh: i'm trying to figure out how to get it to work in the console (e.g. for mer/fedora) | 00:45 |
| jebba | dunno that one | 00:45 |
| dimitris82z | jebba, i will try yours now :P | 00:45 |
| cehteh | getting what to work? | 00:45 |
| jebba | v2px_: search for jack the ripper on how to recover your lockcode in talk.maemo.org | 00:46 |
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| dimitris82z | see ya later | 00:46 |
| jebba | cehteh: well, no - !123456789 / etc because no Fn (RALT) key in console. Hard to do anything | 00:46 |
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| cehteh | ah | 00:47 |
| cehteh | framebuffer console | 00:47 |
| v2px_ | jebba: thanks! | 00:47 |
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| jebba | np | 00:48 |
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| dmj7261 | Kamui: Have you checked to see if Blender is a non-compositing window? | 00:49 |
| dmj7261 | I've heard that can boost performance. | 00:49 |
| shinkamui | hey | 00:50 |
| shinkamui | its not | 00:50 |
| shinkamui | its in a compositing window | 00:50 |
| cehteh | heh turn that off :) | 00:50 |
| shinkamui | it continues to run even when the screen is expose'd | 00:50 |
| cehteh | there are hints on the formum how too | 00:50 |
| cehteh | also opengles has some limitations which may need some porting for performance | 00:51 |
| dmj7261 | You should try making it non-composited, and keep it that way if it's noticeably faster | 00:51 |
| cehteh | using integer math instead of floats in some cases and so on | 00:51 |
| lcuk | key point #1 with optimization, simplify, reduce the layers. | 00:52 |
| N900evil | I misread that as lawyers | 00:53 |
| lcuk | that too | 00:53 |
| dmj726_n900 | but lawyers a just so efficient. | 00:54 |
| lcuk | true, but lawyers are best used as webservers | 00:55 |
| lcuk | they can serve 1000s of pages a second | 00:55 |
| shinkamui | pupnik no luck, even with compilier optimizations, no speed increase | 00:56 |
| shinkamui | lag is still around 1 second after click | 00:56 |
| shinkamui | definately going to need to use an opengl->opengles warpper | 00:56 |
| shinkamui | wrapper | 00:56 |
| shinkamui | :( | 00:56 |
| dmj726_n900 | shinkamui: once you have optimized performance, you might make some new default views | 00:56 |
| dmj726_n900 | aww | 00:57 |
| shinkamui | dmj7261 well, new views might not help yet | 00:57 |
| shinkamui | I got the blenderpocket wrapper code | 00:57 |
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| shinkamui | the author told me he did that because of the opengl floating point issue | 00:57 |
| pupnik | shinkamui: blender needs mesa to draw wireframes too? | 00:57 |
| shinkamui | opengles apparently uses fixed point math transparently | 00:57 |
| dmj726_n900 | no, but they might make things easier , less cluttered | 00:58 |
| cehteh | isnt that what i just saied :) | 00:58 |
| shinkamui | pupnik, that I don't know, but I wish mesa had a fixed point build option :) | 00:58 |
| pupnik | using mesa for anything is fail | 00:58 |
| pupnik | anything | 00:58 |
| pupnik | its not meant for that | 00:59 |
| lcuk | is the whole ui done in gl? | 00:59 |
| shinkamui | yep | 00:59 |
| lcuk | ok, can you reduce the density of polygons | 00:59 |
| lcuk | or is it already minimal | 00:59 |
| shinkamui | yep | 00:59 |
| cehteh | nah .. | 00:59 |
| shinkamui | there is nothing on the screen | 00:59 |
| lcuk | amn, was tihnking like the options you get in games | 01:00 |
| shinkamui | the UI is slow | 01:00 |
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| lcuk | turning aa off and stuff | 01:00 |
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| lcuk | i need a new new keyboard | 01:00 |
| cehteh | you will never get it to reasonable performance when you use the wrong gl way .. you have to port it to gles | 01:00 |
| shinkamui | yea, I think thats right cehteh | 01:00 |
| shinkamui | luckily I have the blenderpocket gles wrapper code ;) | 01:01 |
| cehteh | yes that might help | 01:01 |
| shinkamui | its just a bit daunting, I dont know where to begin | 01:01 |
| shinkamui | he was able to work off of the microsoft standard opengl lib | 01:01 |
| shinkamui | I dont know if I should start wrapping the gl functions in mesa or what | 01:01 |
| cehteh | i dont know either | 01:02 |
| shinkamui | and then the big question is what library do I need for opengles | 01:02 |
| shinkamui | obviously this code has to link to a library | 01:02 |
| cehteh | maybe you can just make a LD_PRELOAD lib from that? .. then it becomes useable for other projects too | 01:02 |
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| jebba | If you have a kernel with a framebuffer console, you can get the console login thusly: | 01:04 |
| jebba | sudo /sbin/getty 38400 tty3 | 01:04 |
| jebba | sudo chvt 3 | 01:04 |
| pupnik | why does entering text in google or youtube or elsewhere cause a 5-7 second delay before I see what I type? | 01:05 |
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| cehteh | thats new | 01:06 |
| dmj726_n900 | shinkamui: a general opengl to gles wrapper would be good for porting games too. | 01:06 |
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| lardman | night all | 01:09 |
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| jebba | htop looks rad haha | 01:10 |
| shinkamui | yes it would dmj7261 | 01:10 |
| shinkamui | I wonder if this works out ok if I can turn it into a wrapper | 01:10 |
| shinkamui | a general warpper | 01:10 |
| shinkamui | wrapper | 01:10 |
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| shinkamui | im just not fluent in opengl, I've only done a little ogl programming some years ago when I was interested | 01:11 |
| shinkamui | so it would probably be up to the community to keep upgrading it | 01:11 |
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| shinkamui | damn my N900 is acting stupid | 01:13 |
| shinkamui | keeps disconnecting from my wireless and going edge | 01:13 |
| pupnik | please fix text entry in browser | 01:13 |
| pupnik | i am sick of my text going into URL addressbar | 01:14 |
| shinkamui | yea I get that too if I dont doubletap in teh entry box to be sure | 01:14 |
| shinkamui | would be nic e if in the new firmware update, nokia also repartitions root to have about 100 extra megs | 01:15 |
| N900evil | they can't | 01:16 |
| shinkamui | i keep dropping into the 95% full range | 01:16 |
| shinkamui | why cant they | 01:16 |
| shinkamui | it seems to me that that usb flash mode is the best time to repartition | 01:16 |
| N900evil | / is on a 256m device | 01:16 |
| shinkamui | or is it a completely different chip | 01:16 |
| shinkamui | oh | 01:16 |
| shinkamui | painful | 01:16 |
| ShadowJK | be sure to reply to the threads/bugs/etc asking for people who fill their / to rwport what they've installed | 01:18 |
| N900evil | I want the LED torch to come on automatically if I open the shutter and kill the camera app immediately. | 01:19 |
| cehteh | look at /etc/systemui/* | 01:19 |
| cehteh | you can disabled the camera app | 01:20 |
| cehteh | and possibly enable a torch app there | 01:20 |
| lcuk | N900evil, hat happens if you want to take a picture | 01:20 |
| cehteh | using the flash when the shutter is open for the alarm clock would also be nice | 01:20 |
| N900evil | lcuk, and kill the camera app within 5s say | 01:21 |
| cehteh | and you never forget to close the shutter then :) | 01:21 |
| N900evil | or open, closeshutter, open | 01:22 |
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| N900evil | ceh900, never open it randomly if I don't want to use cam or LED | 01:22 |
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| N900evil | And only if vcam is killed immediately after opening. | 01:23 |
| * lcuk thinks all this is solved with a simple little torch icon in the camera ap | 01:26 | |
| lcuk | p | 01:26 |
| N900evil | gettujng almolst to ther olkijunt where I cahn type with eyes shur | 01:26 |
| N900evil | oooh | 01:26 |
| cehteh | note that the flashlight also has a dimmer 'indicator' mode .. | 01:26 |
| N900evil | that's bettrer than I thought | 01:27 |
| N900evil | :) | 01:27 |
| cehteh | might be already bright enough for some things | 01:27 |
| N900evil | yeah | 01:27 |
| lcuk | and since its in process, it knows when should be on/off | 01:27 |
| lcuk | and wont get mixed up or fucked up | 01:27 |
| lcuk | and most of all, it will be | 01:27 |
| lcuk | INTUITIVE | 01:27 |
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| angasule | note to nokia: cleaning clothes should NOT look like paper napkins one would find in a 5th grader's birthday party, those tend to get thrown into the waste bin (luckily I was able to retrieve it in time...) | 01:28 |
| cehteh | well flashlight sucks a lot of power, so i prefer to make turning it on a very explicit action | 01:28 |
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| N900evil | not that much | 01:28 |
| N900evil | 1W or so | 01:28 |
| N900evil | 4h or so. | 01:29 |
| N900evil | err | 01:29 |
| N900evil | no | 01:29 |
| cehteh | maybe 2w .. | 01:29 |
| cehteh | i didnt calculated .. but thats already quite a lot for the device | 01:29 |
| N900evil | 1W at flash mode. | 01:29 |
| cehteh | i doubt... flash is brighter than my 5W led headtorch | 01:30 |
| N900evil | 50mA at 3.5v | 01:30 |
| cehteh | its more than 50ma | 01:30 |
| cehteh | times 2 leds .. (7Volt or whatever) | 01:30 |
| lcuk | cehteh, flash is brighter than the sun | 01:30 |
| N900evil | Old LEDs may be 10 percent as efficient. | 01:30 |
| N900evil | hmm | 01:31 |
| N900evil | series is pposible | 01:31 |
| lcuk | i bet nokia engineers are currently investigating n900 sharp connection addons | 01:31 |
| lcuk | shark | 01:31 |
| cehteh | yes but i rememmber from the datasheet that torch mode is more than 50ma | 01:31 |
| N900evil | no | 01:31 |
| cehteh | 100 or 150ma | 01:31 |
| crashanddie | ~seen qwerty12 | 01:31 |
| infobot | qwerty12 <n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 31d 5h 7m 37s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'. | 01:31 |
| N900evil | must be less than | 01:31 |
| crashanddie | ~seen qwertyn900 | 01:32 |
| infobot | i haven't seen 'qwertyn900', crashanddie | 01:32 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, tmo | 01:32 |
| crashanddie | ~seen qwerty900 | 01:32 |
| infobot | i haven't seen 'qwerty900', crashanddie | 01:32 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: dunno what's happened, why the hell isn't he on IRC anymore? | 01:32 |
| lcuk | ask him | 01:32 |
| cehteh | the leds are quite conservatively powered .. less than the chip can deliver | 01:32 |
| N900evil | yeah - limit is 50mA | 01:33 |
| N900evil | check wiki page | 01:33 |
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| N900evil | so .35w | 01:34 |
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| N900evil | or about 10h | 01:34 |
| cehteh | how do you get the wattage? | 01:34 |
| cehteh | because you dont know the voltage :P | 01:34 |
| N900evil | multiply by 7 | 01:34 |
| cehteh | that was just a guess | 01:34 |
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| cehteh | could be anything between 6 and 9 volts depending on the leds | 01:35 |
| N900evil | White leds all have a forward voltage in the range of 3.4 and 3.9v or so | 01:35 |
| cehteh | and the step up circruit has only about 80% efficiency | 01:35 |
| N900evil | for singe die devices | 01:35 |
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| N900evil | covered in 'about' | 01:36 |
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| N900evil | have proper current measurement setup about 1/2 built | 01:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | did someone poke me earlier? | 01:56 |
| * luke-jr pokes timeless_mbp for the heck of it | 01:57 | |
| * timeless_mbp counter-pokes luke-jr | 01:57 | |
| * jX joins in the poking | 01:57 | |
| timeless_mbp | hi jX | 01:57 |
| jX | sup | 01:57 |
| timeless_mbp | it's midnight | 01:57 |
| * N900evil does not poke timeless_mbp | 01:57 | |
| jX | it's midnight, do you know where your nokia mobiles are? | 01:58 |
| N900evil | yes | 01:58 |
| * luke-jr stabs timeless_mbp | 01:58 | |
| luke-jr | N900evil: nope, it's in my pocket | 01:58 |
| timeless_mbp | jX: charging | 01:58 |
| jX | please dont' stabtimeless. | 01:58 |
| jX | we need him | 01:58 |
| jX | a little. | 01:58 |
| luke-jr | hehe | 01:59 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 01:59 | |
| timeless_mbp | http://cellphone.gadgetzonia.com/nokia-review-from-windows-mobile-smartphone-round-robin/ | 01:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | claims the n900 has 768mb of 'rom' | 01:59 |
| timeless_mbp | can someone please tell me what the heck they're talking about? | 01:59 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: is $320 for a N900 definitely a scam? | 01:59 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: 768 MB would be swap | 01:59 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: i wouldn't place money on it being a scam | 01:59 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: hmm... so it could be a legit deal? :D | 02:00 |
| timeless_mbp | perhaps | 02:00 |
| jX | timeless_mbp: They MEAN OS storage, but they quoted the swap space | 02:00 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: care to read and comment on a sales chat? | 02:00 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: i'll read | 02:00 |
| luke-jr | http://pastebin.ca/1736039 | 02:00 |
| jX | wait, java? | 02:01 |
| jX | we have java on the 900? | 02:01 |
| timeless_mbp | jX: where? | 02:03 |
| jX | The long and the short of it is that the N900 browser can handle just about anything you throw at it. Flash? No problem. Java? Sure thing. | 02:03 |
| jX | from that link of yours | 02:03 |
| t_s_o | oh crap, cold day in hell moment, openpandora have gone mass production?! | 02:03 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: looks like a scam | 02:04 |
| timeless_mbp | i would never deal w/ a group that doesn't accept credit card payments | 02:04 |
| luke-jr | >_< | 02:05 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: ok then... do you think there is any chance Nokia would gift me a N900 if I finish porting (real) Linux to N8x0? | 02:05 |
| luke-jr | or (alternatively) if I complain loud enough about the false advertising? :P | 02:05 |
| ljp | maemo isn't real linux? | 02:06 |
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| angasule | ROM swap sounds rather useless ^_^ | 02:06 |
| TTilus | luke-jr: what would count as "real"? | 02:06 |
| luke-jr | ljp: Maemo is an OS based on Linux. | 02:06 |
| luke-jr | TTilus: kernel.org | 02:06 |
| rashed2020 | What if you run out of ROM :o | 02:07 |
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| rashed2020 | Has anyone tried compiling fuppes for the N900? | 02:07 |
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| luke-jr | ljp: Maemo 4, abandoned version that last supported N8x0, is based on a highly modified fork of Linux 2.6.21 | 02:07 |
| TTilus | luke-jr: ?! ive been told its a kernel, not an os | 02:07 |
| luke-jr | ljp: there is much work involved in porting that fork to Linux now | 02:08 |
| luke-jr | TTilus: Linux is a kernel. Maemo is an OS. | 02:08 |
| ljp | luke-jr: and us tabout every other distribution has a fork of the kernel as well | 02:08 |
| TTilus | luke-jr: yes | 02:08 |
| jX | it's an OS AND a kernel! It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping! | 02:08 |
| luke-jr | ljp: yes, but every other distro can still *work* with a standard Linux | 02:08 |
| luke-jr | except Android | 02:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Linux is a sort of cheese. | 02:08 |
| zash | Mmmmm... cheeeeeese | 02:09 |
| luke-jr | ljp: anyhow, I'm not talkign about porting Maemo4 to Linux, I'm talking about porting Linux to N8x0 | 02:09 |
| luke-jr | the work involved to do so would cost me over $500 | 02:09 |
| luke-jr | of time | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | And the screaming noise of a penguin coming at you at mach 4 in the night. | 02:09 |
| jX | lucent: Good news, it's don! | 02:09 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: i can't imagine you'd get much of a reward for providing a later linux kernel to an old product | 02:09 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: ok, so no point doing it :( | 02:10 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, you really shouldv just signed up for the summit | 02:10 |
| ljp | so proprietary drivers make it a fake linux? | 02:10 |
| TTilus | timeless_mbp: i prolly would ;) (have n810) | 02:10 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: signing up was enough?? | 02:10 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: I can't leave the country at this time... | 02:10 |
| lcuk | and luke-jr isnt the mer project designed to deal with the case you are wanting to recover | 02:10 |
| luke-jr | ljp: proprietary or open, it is a fork thereof | 02:10 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: and I am the only person on the Mer project even looking at possibly doing it | 02:10 |
| * lcuk nods | 02:11 | |
| jX | oh, this is luke, I remember now. | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | but doing it would only be for my own benefit, and with the work needed costing most than a new N900, that goes into question | 02:11 |
| ljp | luke-jr: and because its a fork, its fake? | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | ljp: I didn't use the word fake, you did. | 02:11 |
| ljp | you used 'real linux' which means somethine else is 'fake linux' | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | ljp: I used 'real linux' to more clearly distinct it from 'linux and forks of linux' that people tend to assume if you just say 'linux' | 02:12 |
| TTilus | *sig* ... ive got igo stowaway and nokia su-8w and NEITHER works with n900 :-/ | 02:12 |
| * lcuk shakily puts a hand in the air | 02:13 | |
| jX | luke-jr: Can you please name for me one actual FORK of linux? | 02:13 |
| TTilus | damn! | 02:13 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: you're just too funny | 02:13 |
| jX | as opposed to your politically skewed designations? | 02:13 |
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| TTilus | jX: just let it be ... puh-leese | 02:14 |
| jX | because every time you say things like fork, I feel like Inigo Montyoa. "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." | 02:14 |
| jX | TTilus: I try, I really do... | 02:14 |
| crashanddie | ~jX++ | 02:14 |
| luke-jr | jX: Maemo's Linux | 02:15 |
| jX | not a fork,. | 02:15 |
| jX | try again. | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | jX: if it's not a fork, what is it? | 02:15 |
| jX | it's a distribution | 02:15 |
| jX | try again. | 02:15 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: there's a *massive* difference between a fork and a distributioun | 02:15 |
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| crashanddie | s/oun/on/ | 02:15 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: luke-jr: there's a *massive* difference between a fork and a distribution | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | jX: Maemo is a distribution, which includes a kernel that is a fork of Linux | 02:15 |
| jX | nope | 02:15 |
| jX | not a fork | 02:15 |
| jX | sorry | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | yes | 02:15 |
| jX | try again | 02:15 |
| lcuk | a fork would have a new name | 02:16 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: a fork literally means they take the codebase at one point, and completely separate from it -- naming it something else, and working on it privately. | 02:16 |
| luke-jr | so you claim it's not a fork unless it has a new name? | 02:16 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: except for a new name, Maemo's kernel is just that | 02:16 |
| jX | you can't claim it's a fork unless it's being developed ina an intirely new direction | 02:16 |
| luke-jr | Maemo4's* | 02:16 |
| jX | like freebsd and openbsd | 02:16 |
| TTilus | jX: i think luke-jr tries to say he thinks linux that goes with maemo4 is big (and dead end?) enough a patchset to be considered a fork | 02:16 |
| jX | or the various unixes of old | 02:16 |
| lcuk | luke, slow down a bit | 02:16 |
| crashanddie | however, the Linux kernel that ships with Maemo is still entirely based on the Linux kernel. Personalising it and tailoring it doesn't make it a fork. Welcome to Linux. | 02:17 |
| jX | TTilus: no, he calls anythign that isn't 100% GPL a fork | 02:17 |
| jX | which gets irritating after a while. | 02:17 |
| TTilus | jX: umm, you have it ;) | 02:17 |
| luke-jr | anything not part of mainline is a fork per definition | 02:17 |
| lcuk | so th maemo 4 kernel has custom modifications which make it in compatible with the stock kernel? | 02:17 |
| jX | it's like a tiny RMS here in channel. | 02:17 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: yes, many | 02:17 |
| TTilus | jX: definitely better analysis than mine | 02:17 |
| lcuk | is it all better now in n900? | 02:18 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs and pulls up iPlayer | 02:18 | |
| angasule | umh, great, if I try USB networking the n810 reboots when I remove the USB, I'm thinking it has to do with the fact that I'm booting from the internal memory | 02:18 |
| * jX snorts a little n900 and everything is better | 02:18 | |
| * lcuk laffs | 02:18 | |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering, a project fork happens when developers take a copy of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_code from one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_software and start independent development on it, creating a distinct piece of software. | 02:18 |
| crashanddie | game, set and match | 02:18 |
| kpel | #does N900 make coffee? :P | 02:18 |
| * jX raises crashanddie's hand in victory | 02:18 | |
| lcuk | crashanddie, technically there is a point before where the codebranch is a fork in all but name | 02:18 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: which Nokia did to make Maemo's kernel | 02:18 |
| timeless_mbp | ooh, flubber is showing | 02:19 |
| jX | timeless: Well then zip up your pants, no one wants to see your flubber | 02:19 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, one very important question | 02:19 |
| lcuk | how is the n810 kernel related to you wanting an n900 | 02:19 |
| timeless_mbp | jX: do you remember flubber? | 02:19 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: you may be a cool guy sometimes, but for fuck's sake, stop trying to be RMS | 02:19 |
| jX | timeless: The original with Ed MacMurray or the remakes with Eddie Murphy? | 02:19 |
| luke-jr | the end point is, the work required to port Linux to N8x0 is extensive and not worth my effort unless I get reimbursed somehow :/ | 02:19 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: WTF does RMS have anything to do with this? | 02:20 |
| jX | luke-jr: I'll reimburse you... IN RAPE DOLLARS! | 02:20 |
| timeless_mbp | jX: i think the remake is robin williams | 02:20 |
| timeless_mbp | but i prefer the original(s) | 02:20 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: N900 would be reimbursement worth porting Linux to N8x0 | 02:20 |
| lcuk | my n810 has linux on it | 02:20 |
| jX | http://danarchy.youfailit.net/Spiderman/spidey14.jpg | 02:20 |
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| crashanddie | luke-jr: you acting like him. Just accept the definition of a word, and stop fighting windmills. | 02:20 |
| luke-jr | I could spend my time doing other work and earn $$$ to buy a N900 instead, of course. | 02:20 |
| * lcuk gets off the merry go round | 02:20 | |
| luke-jr | but then N8x0 will never get a Linux port | 02:20 |
| luke-jr | unless someone else feels like wasting their time, anyhow | 02:20 |
| jX | it HAS linux ports | 02:20 |
| jX | lucent: you can install Debian on the 810 already | 02:21 |
| lcuk | the n810 has linux distros coming out of its teeth | 02:21 |
| luke-jr | jX: no, it doesn't. Nobody has managed to run a single 2009 Linux on it. | 02:21 |
| TTilus | jX: now luke-jr prolly points out debian's linux being o fork being | 02:21 |
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| TTilus | oops | 02:21 |
| ljp | my 810 has dentures | 02:21 |
| jX | there's no such think as a "2009 linux" | 02:21 |
| jX | linux is not a car | 02:21 |
| crashanddie | wtf is a 2009 Linux? | 02:21 |
| luke-jr | well, maybe Q1 | 02:21 |
| * jX thinks luke-jr is 14 | 02:22 | |
| luke-jr | and I'm including Linux forks/variants in that | 02:22 |
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| lcuk | didnt carsten get some sort of linux running on it | 02:22 |
| crashanddie | yes | 02:22 |
| lcuk | and didnt you get gentoo on it | 02:22 |
| luke-jr | jX: Linux, like all software, has newer versions regularly | 02:22 |
| lcuk | with slono | 02:22 |
| TTilus | jX: could be older, maybe just late developed | 02:22 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: yes, using Maemo's kernel | 02:22 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: which is now so old that udev no longer supports it | 02:22 |
| lcuk | so the maemo kernel is good enough to bootstrap gentoo? | 02:22 |
| jX | no, not regularly, and most software isn't released regularly unless you're counting AV versions and new versions of Madden football. | 02:22 |
| lcuk | kickass! | 02:22 |
| jX | most software is released irregularly, linux included | 02:23 |
| luke-jr | Linux is released quarterly | 02:23 |
| jX | LULZ | 02:23 |
| TTilus | *muahahaaa* | 02:23 |
| lcuk | which quarter is the unstable one | 02:23 |
| jX | lol | 02:23 |
| * jX goes back to playing Duke Nukem Forever | 02:23 | |
| luke-jr | the point is you cannot download Linux and run it on N810, nor any modern OS that requires it | 02:23 |
| crashanddie | it's well known, Linux is released 4 times a year, and coincides with the FSF's fiscal year end | 02:24 |
| TTilus | lcuk: might be the fifth? | 02:24 |
| * ljp really likes the n900... even with all the gtk stuff | 02:24 | |
| kpel | crashanddie: lol | 02:24 |
| luke-jr | the point is that there is a crap ton of work needed to port Maemo's drivers to Linux | 02:24 |
| jX | dude | 02:24 |
| kpel | that's something different | 02:24 |
| jX | stop | 02:24 |
| jX | they'rea lready ported to linux. you're talking about putting a new kernel version on, not "linux" | 02:25 |
| luke-jr | the point is that it is not logical for me to do it when I could get a N900 for cheaper | 02:25 |
| jX | it's already running linux | 02:25 |
| luke-jr | jX: no, it's running a fork of Linux | 02:25 |
| jX | no, it's not | 02:25 |
| luke-jr | you can't download an old version of Linux proper and run that either | 02:25 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, is it feasible to get a *from source* gentoo distro running on n900 | 02:25 |
| kpel | luke-jr: what about ubuntu? does it include a fork of linux? | 02:25 |
| ljp | ok, lets compromise and say it's a spoon of linux | 02:25 |
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| jX | there IS NO LINUX PROPER | 02:25 |
| lcuk | complete and fully standalone | 02:25 |
| luke-jr | it's not like Linux used to support it and now doesn't | 02:25 |
| TTilus | luke-jr: well, if it aint logical, just stop bashing about it here, will you | 02:25 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: yes, should be trivial | 02:25 |
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| lcuk | gentoo, on my n900? | 02:26 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: you're wrong | 02:26 |
| jX | you can't jsut download and run "linux" to start | 02:26 |
| luke-jr | jX: if there is no Linux proper, then Linus is nothing | 02:26 |
| lcuk | no seb, hold up | 02:26 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: gentoo works on the n810, without the maemo stock kernel | 02:26 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: yes | 02:26 |
| jX | you have to download the source then compile it for yoru platform | 02:26 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: prove it | 02:26 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: First off, I've switched from the Maemo kernel to the http://www.muru.com/linux/omap/ with the http://www.muru.com/linux/n8x0/ and the http://stlc45xx.garage.maemo.org/. This allows us freedom from the 2.6.21 kernel -- no more patching for old-ABI/EABI problems, and along with this change, we get a proper FN key (yea for digits). | 02:26 |
| luke-jr | jX: I'm implying the compile step | 02:26 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, could you do the bootmenu stuff? | 02:26 |
| lcuk | so i can dualboot | 02:26 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: http://nosocomia.com:8099/n810-gentoo/ | 02:26 |
| lcuk | gentoo and fremantle? | 02:26 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: I would presume so. If you expect me to help with it, I need a N900 first. | 02:26 |
| jX | in all seriousness, luke-jr, how old are you? | 02:27 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: that predates even slonopotamus_ and I's port; it's Linux-OMAP, not Linux proper; and finally, it didn't really *work* | 02:27 |
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| luke-jr | jX: 23 | 02:27 |
| jX | really? | 02:27 |
| luke-jr | jX: married, 3 children, good job | 02:27 |
| crashanddie | poor kids | 02:27 |
| luke-jr | jX: hence why my time isn't worthless | 02:27 |
| jX | interesting. you argue from a point of naivety I don't see often in non-teens. must be political. | 02:28 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: your kids must be having a blast when they learn something at school and you scold at them for being wrong, cuz you learnt something else eh? | 02:28 |
| lcuk | how about, theres a point to what lukes saying even tho his words are wrong | 02:29 |
| TTilus | luke-jr: umm, then Linux-x86 is not proper? neither is Linux-PPC | 02:29 |
| lcuk | he strives for a 100% open system | 02:29 |
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| luke-jr | crashanddie: formalized school is neglect; so go troll someone else | 02:29 |
| lcuk | and theres nothing wrong with that | 02:29 |
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| luke-jr | lcuk: this doesn't even have anything to do with open vs closed | 02:29 |
| jX | "formalized school is neglect"? | 02:30 |
| jX | so, you home school? | 02:30 |
| TTilus | crashanddie: pleez, dont... | 02:30 |
| luke-jr | Maemo4's kernel is open, except for WiFi which Linux *does* support | 02:30 |
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| luke-jr | but it's still different enough that the drivers need to be ported | 02:30 |
| luke-jr | jX: plan to, anyhow | 02:30 |
| luke-jr | jX: oldest is 4 | 02:30 |
| jX | evangelical by any chance? | 02:30 |
| luke-jr | what? | 02:31 |
| jX | religion? | 02:31 |
| luke-jr | Catholic | 02:31 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: stlc45xx isn't a good choice for the n810 wifi? | 02:31 |
| luke-jr | though I have to wonder what it matters | 02:31 |
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| luke-jr | crashanddie: hm? no, I'd use p54spi | 02:31 |
| jX | doesn't MATTER, I'm just trying to build a picture. | 02:31 |
| jX | I was Catholic once too. | 02:31 |
| jX | politically conservative? | 02:31 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: in case you misread, WiFi is pretty much the *only* perhipheral of N810 that Linux proper supports | 02:32 |
| crashanddie | jX: way off topic though now | 02:32 |
| luke-jr | jX: you could say I fell off the right side of the political spectrum | 02:32 |
| jX | k. | 02:32 |
| * TTilus puts his children to this dreaded "formalized school" | 02:32 | |
| jX | thanks for humoring me. | 02:32 |
| ljp | i prefer causualized schools | 02:32 |
| luke-jr | TTilus: no offense, some parents don't have a real choice. I was just exaggerating it a bit in response to the trolling ;) | 02:33 |
| crashanddie | jX: you're not exactly mind-reading :P Anyone who says he has a "good job" and can't waste his time is pretty much on right side :P | 02:33 |
| kpel | g'night | 02:33 |
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| jX | crashanddie: lulz | 02:33 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, are you signed up/ applied for hte developer program (is it still on | 02:33 |
| TTilus | luke-jr: its a bit country-dependent what "formalized school" actually means | 02:34 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: ? | 02:34 |
| luke-jr | TTilus: indeed; like I said, I was exaggerating it :P | 02:34 |
| TTilus | yup | 02:34 |
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| luke-jr | though I would love to learn of a country with not totally insane formal schools | 02:34 |
| TTilus | luke-jr: "insane"? | 02:35 |
| luke-jr | not that I would send my children there, of course. it's still a parent's duty to educate, not some random "teacher" | 02:35 |
| TTilus | luke-jr: like performance-wise or? | 02:35 |
| luke-jr | TTilus: USA schools are designed for brainwashing and not much more | 02:35 |
| luke-jr | creating the perfect slave | 02:35 |
| jX | lol, "teacher" | 02:35 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: this being said, I could probably shout you till the middle of next week with regards to how much I hate and despise pretty much all education systems worldwide. | 02:35 |
| * lcuk gingerly puts his hand up again | 02:35 | |
| ljp | luke-jr: i would agree with you on duty to educate. too many parents leave that totally to the edu system | 02:36 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: shout at *me*? why me? XD | 02:36 |
| TTilus | luke-jr: uhh, here teachers are respected professionals with university degrees and decent pay | 02:36 |
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| luke-jr | TTilus: universities here are not much better | 02:36 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: it's one of those topics that gets me shouting at anyone | 02:36 |
| luke-jr | just extended brainwashing | 02:36 |
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| luke-jr | neither lower schools nor universities in the USA (in general) actually teach, just brainwash and feed memorization | 02:37 |
| lcuk | oh | 02:37 |
| lcuk | err | 02:37 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: have you seen Ken Robinson's talk about Education? | 02:38 |
| TTilus | luke-jr: of course its my responsibility to get my children educated, and i can count on prolly 95% of "random teachers" being way better teachers than me | 02:38 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: never heard of him | 02:38 |
| lcuk | can i undelete stuff in linux? | 02:38 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html | 02:38 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: not if you rm'd it | 02:38 |
| lcuk | :'( | 02:38 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: not reasonably. if it's important enoguh to spend days on, you might manage to get something | 02:38 |
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| luke-jr | I spent about 48 hours one time trying to figure out my RAID-5 | 02:39 |
| lcuk | i was deleting a folder in | 02:39 |
| lcuk | ~ | 02:39 |
| luke-jr | apparently it needed the 8 drives connected in the same order... | 02:39 |
| lcuk | and i caught enter instead of backspace | 02:39 |
| luke-jr | 40k possibilities there IIRC | 02:39 |
| lcuk | oh theres no raid | 02:39 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: RAID is easier ;) | 02:39 |
| lcuk | single drive | 02:40 |
| luke-jr | just a matter of identifying the correct driver order for RAID | 02:40 |
| luke-jr | for files, you need to get an old copy of the directory with the file still in it | 02:40 |
| luke-jr | and hope the inode list is intact | 02:40 |
| luke-jr | etc | 02:40 |
| ssvb | luke-jr: your point about the kernel support is clear, we just need to find some guy whose time is worthless enough to spend it on ensuring that the latest linux kernels always work on N810 :) | 02:40 |
| ssvb | luke-jr: and it still does not guarantee that the needed patches will even reach mainline kernel | 02:40 |
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| ssvb | luke-jr: you can imagine how much efforts it may take once you get your N8x0 board patches for usb support accepted upstream | 02:40 |
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| luke-jr | ssvb: if someone's time is worthless, I'd bet they lack the skills | 02:41 |
| luke-jr | Kalle Valo was working on it last summer, but he seems to have stopped | 02:41 |
| ssvb | luke-jr: these were your words :) | 02:41 |
| luke-jr | obviously he would be interested as a Nokia employee, but AFAIK they weren't paying him for it :( | 02:41 |
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| lcuk | ill bbiab | 02:42 |
| luke-jr | ssvb: ok | 02:42 |
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| luke-jr | I guess I just see working extra to save up for a N900 kind of a cop-out and leaving people with N8x0 hanging | 02:43 |
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| luke-jr | so if possible, I'd rather Nokia just save me that effort and I can agree to spend the same time (and probably more) to get Linux working on N8x0 again | 02:43 |
| timeless_mbp_ | oops, iPlayer killed my computer | 02:43 |
| * timeless_mbp_ sighs | 02:44 | |
| timeless_mbp_ | luke-jr: please give this up | 02:44 |
| timeless_mbp_ | Linux is the only platform that runs on the n8x0 | 02:44 |
| timeless_mbp_ | you can't run symbian on it | 02:44 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp_: a fork thereof | 02:44 |
| timeless_mbp_ | or windows | 02:44 |
| timeless_mbp_ | no, a distribution | 02:44 |
| luke-jr | you can't run Linux either. | 02:44 |
| timeless_mbp_ | all distributions include custom kernels | 02:44 |
| timeless_mbp_ | and most distributions maintain their custom kernels for some length of time | 02:45 |
| luke-jr | they don't require custom kernels | 02:45 |
| * timeless_mbp_ ponders | 02:45 | |
| timeless_mbp_ | androids do | 02:45 |
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| timeless_mbp_ | the iOpeners did | 02:45 |
| luke-jr | and Androids don't claim to be Linux AFAIK | 02:45 |
| luke-jr | I don't mess with Android | 02:45 |
| timeless_mbp_ | well, actually, i can't remember what they ran originally | 02:45 |
| jX | luke-jr: Every distro has customizations to their kernels | 02:46 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp_: anyhow, the fact that Maemo runs on N810 does not change the goal of running Linux on N810 any. | 02:46 |
| timeless_mbp_ | the eeepc required a custom kernel to use stuff originally too | 02:46 |
| luke-jr | jX: how many times must I respond to that? | 02:46 |
| jX | as many times as it takes for you to admit your position is wrong. | 02:46 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp_: the eeepc ran a proprietary fork of Linux, not Linux itself | 02:46 |
| luke-jr | jX: this isn't about a position | 02:46 |
| luke-jr | it's about a task | 02:46 |
| luke-jr | porting Linux to N8x0 | 02:47 |
| luke-jr | either it will or won't be done. | 02:47 |
| timeless_mbp_ | it's about a waste of time | 02:47 |
| luke-jr | either it will or won't be done by me. | 02:47 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp_: ok, if that is Nokia's view, then there is no point to me even asking | 02:47 |
| jX | it has been done, as we said | 02:47 |
| jX | so, move on | 02:47 |
| luke-jr | jX: nope | 02:47 |
| jX | yup | 02:47 |
| timeless_mbp_ | i don't speak for nokia | 02:47 |
| jX | timeless speaks for nokia | 02:47 |
| jX | today is opposite day | 02:48 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp_: you would know their view better than me. is that it, more or less? | 02:48 |
| timeless_mbp_ | luke-jr: as a corporation, nokia believes in the future | 02:48 |
| timeless_mbp_ | that's where the money and market is at | 02:48 |
| ljp | s60 doesn't run symbian, either | 02:48 |
| luke-jr | how about the future for old devices that they advertised as having that future? | 02:48 |
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| jX | Nokia belives in the future. We have always been at war with East-Asia | 02:48 |
| jX | luke-jr: They have limited future, Nokai has to make a profit, and that doesn't come from updating devices endlessly | 02:49 |
| timeless_mbp_ | luke-jr: the future is apps, not kernels | 02:49 |
| luke-jr | jX: I understand that, and I understand why Nokia would decline the offer. | 02:49 |
| jX | the 810 certainly has more potential than last year's Motorola phone, being as open as it is | 02:49 |
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| luke-jr | timeless_mbp_: apps require kernels. | 02:49 |
| timeless_mbp_ | rarely | 02:49 |
| timeless_mbp_ | firefox doesn't need a modern kernel | 02:49 |
| timeless_mbp_ | open office doesn't need a modern kernel | 02:50 |
| luke-jr | they require something | 02:50 |
| luke-jr | which will inevitably come down to a kernel | 02:50 |
| timeless_mbp_ | not a modern one | 02:50 |
| timeless_mbp_ | just one | 02:50 |
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| ljp | kernels are overrated | 02:51 |
| timeless_mbp_ | firefox and friends do appreciate the new thread library | 02:51 |
| timeless_mbp_ | but beyond that they really do not care | 02:51 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp_: so we should all just run obsolete versions full of bugs? | 02:51 |
| timeless_mbp_ | most people do | 02:51 |
| timeless_mbp_ | but most bugs don't matter | 02:51 |
| timeless_mbp_ | bugs in browsers sadly do matter | 02:51 |
| luke-jr | ah, that explains with N810's GPS is still too buggy to use | 02:51 |
| luke-jr | s/with/why | 02:51 |
| jX | wfm | 02:52 |
| jX | especialyl with the agps doohicker | 02:52 |
| ssvb | luke-jr: what makes you think that new kernels are not full of bugs? | 02:52 |
| luke-jr | jX: wfm if I play games with it for 15 minutes first | 02:52 |
| luke-jr | ssvb: new kernels are required to run any modern OS | 02:52 |
| luke-jr | udev no longer supports 2.6.21 | 02:52 |
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| dmj7261 | by the way, the eeepcs did need a custom kernel for regular distros like ubuntu, not just that terrible zandros thing | 02:59 |
| * luke-jr nods. | 03:00 | |
| dmj7261 | *xandros | 03:00 |
| dmj7261 | at least on my eeepc 900 the vanilla karmic works perfectly out of the box aside from some annoying touchpad defaults | 03:01 |
| angasule | what N810 program can take geotagged photographs? | 03:01 |
| cehteh | grr | 03:04 |
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| cehteh | i send my n900 back finally ... reboots, spring came of camera slider and now the charge connector broke | 03:05 |
| mza | damn | 03:07 |
| mza | sounds like you're pretty hard on phones | 03:07 |
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| dmj7261 | cehteh: that's terrible | 03:11 |
| dmj7261 | At my house we've had pretty good luck with our n900s so far. | 03:11 |
| dmj7261 | Although it was very distracting for my mom at dinner today. | 03:12 |
| mza | im wondering if my lady would like one | 03:12 |
| arachnist | how many of them have you got? | 03:12 |
| mza | she's got an e71 now | 03:12 |
| dmj7261 | I have one, and my mom liked mine enough that she got her own. | 03:13 |
| N900evil | I wish there were readymade rigfht angle usb connectors. | 03:13 |
| mza | amazon up to $599 | 03:13 |
| mza | damn | 03:13 |
| dmj7261 | we got ours from buy.com | 03:13 |
| mza | how long did it take to get them? | 03:14 |
| dmj7261 | A couple days. | 03:14 |
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| mza | they're sold out:( | 03:14 |
| dmj7261 | aw | 03:14 |
| * MaemohammadAG got internal error on the Web application | 03:15 | |
| dmj7261 | Another wonderful example of Nokia underestimating the popularity of the n900 | 03:15 |
| mza | i saw it for as much as $850 at the mall | 03:15 |
| dmj7261 | Where was that? | 03:15 |
| mza | houston, tx | 03:16 |
| mza | the galleria | 03:16 |
| Cromag | there is a taco shop or somthing there right ? | 03:16 |
| Cromag | a small one, on a conor | 03:16 |
| Cromag | coner^* | 03:16 |
| dmj7261 | I didn't look at the price, since I had my n900 already, but Fry's Electronics had a Nokia end cap with a dummy n900. | 03:16 |
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| jX | I ordered an N900 from buy.com teh day befor thanksgiving US, canceled it in late december because they had no idea when they'd ship. | 03:17 |
| mza | Cromag, houston is full of tex mex | 03:17 |
| jX | ordered it from Dell.com on dec 24, got it dec 29. | 03:17 |
| dmj7261 | I don't think anyone would buy an n900 based on a dummy phone. | 03:17 |
| Cromag | mza: yeah, i just remember something - still. 10 years ago or so. | 03:17 |
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| mza | Cromag, ive only been here 4 | 03:17 |
| dmj7261 | I got mine from buy.com a few days before Dec 19. | 03:17 |
| N900evil | nov 30 :) | 03:18 |
| N900evil | started diet when ordered phone. down 13Kg | 03:18 |
| dmj7261 | hehe | 03:18 |
| N900evil | another 10 to go. | 03:19 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: Well, a lot of people just want apps and such. They don't really care so much about SDK and Nokia binaries. | 03:19 |
| jeremiah | Plus, Nokia should really open this stuff up. | 03:19 |
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| N900evil | Also it should come with slackware on the mmc :) | 03:20 |
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| [Tycho] | Hello, people. | 03:30 |
| KenYoung | I am trying to port a gtk+ application to maemo 5. The application uses gtk_spin_button widgets to set some numerical values. The does not seem to work with maemo 5 - the up/down arrows do not appear, and the text field cannot be properly modified by keyboard input. Does maemo 5 use some other widget for this, or is there something I can do to make gtk_spin_buttons work properly? | 03:31 |
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| [Tycho] | Have someone tried to install Maemo SDK for n770 ? | 03:33 |
| shinkamui | well | 03:37 |
| shinkamui | Im trying to totally migrate over to xmpp | 03:38 |
| shinkamui | and use transports to get access to my stragglers on msn or aim | 03:38 |
| shinkamui | anyone using jabber/xmpp with conversations? | 03:38 |
| shinkamui | or is pidgin preferred for managing IM contacts | 03:38 |
| * [Tycho] thinks that it's already time to consider migrating from xmpp to psyc. | 03:39 | |
| [Tycho] | I tried to install maemo SDK 2.2 almost by tutorial, but can't get it to work. It shows me this error: http://tr00.ru/ub_01.png | 03:40 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | See you tomorrow, guys | 03:55 |
| Sir_Lancelot | [[[[]]]] | 03:55 |
| cehteh | hmpf .. fsck .. doesnt boot | 03:56 |
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| cehteh | can one enable va framebuffer console on fremantle? | 03:58 |
| cehteh | watching boot messages... | 03:58 |
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| shinkamui | roh noes cehteh | 03:59 |
| shinkamui | reflash time? | 03:59 |
| shinkamui | I still dont even have the needed images | 03:59 |
| cehteh | well i really dont use it much and it still borks | 04:00 |
| cehteh | will send it back next days :/ | 04:00 |
| cehteh | i really wonder why nokia didnt choosen some bullet proof unionfs setup with the underlying rootfs readonly | 04:02 |
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| dmj7261 | cehteh: maybe for maemo 6 | 04:03 |
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| SplasPood | shinkamui: I use jabber for * | 04:03 |
| SplasPood | [Tycho]: psyc? | 04:03 |
| cehteh | well .. oplc and eeepc do that, its not rocket science | 04:04 |
| [Tycho] | psyc. | 04:04 |
| cehteh | would have solved the 256mb restriction nicely too | 04:04 |
| SplasPood | [Tycho]: what is that? | 04:04 |
| [Tycho] | It's a messaging protocol of future. | 04:04 |
| SplasPood | I'm still waiting for XMPP to answer on that promise... ;) | 04:05 |
| cehteh | xmpp sux somewhat .. overengineered bloat | 04:05 |
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| SplasPood | cehteh: I like to compare it to git... both solve a problem reasonably to very well, both do so by designing a platform vs a specific application | 04:08 |
| SplasPood | maybe it's not the greatest comparison, but I think it works | 04:08 |
| cehteh | huh | 04:08 |
| SplasPood | Maybe it only makes sense to me? | 04:08 |
| cehteh | git is very pragmatic tied around linux (and kernel development) most things are added as aftertught | 04:08 |
| cehteh | not that its bad, i like it, but it started with very simple ideas | 04:09 |
| SplasPood | While that was the itch it was meant to scratch I wouldn't say thats the case at all. | 04:09 |
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| cehteh | ok .. reflash time grr | 04:09 |
| luke-jr | I use git for my email folders | 04:09 |
| luke-jr | :D | 04:09 |
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| shinkamui | SplasPood on conversations or pidgin | 04:14 |
| jebba | rsync rsync://espejo.freemoe.org/repository.maemo.org/ | 04:19 |
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| kamui2 | nice | 04:19 |
| kamui2 | had to reboot my damn router | 04:19 |
| kamui2 | phone aint getting wifi | 04:20 |
| SplasPood | shinkamui: conversations (telephony) | 04:20 |
| cehteh | i had the same yesterday with my AP | 04:20 |
| cehteh | got wlan but no ip from dhcp | 04:20 |
| cehteh | maybe it sucks the whole pool empty when trying? .. | 04:20 |
| kamui2 | see, im not getting wlan at all | 04:21 |
| kamui2 | its sticking with freeking edge | 04:21 |
| cehteh | ok | 04:21 |
| kamui2 | whcich wouldn't bug me too much | 04:21 |
| kamui2 | but downloading a 12meg update on edge | 04:21 |
| kamui2 | aint fun. | 04:21 |
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| KenYoung | I just received an automatic update of the free42 calculator program. I allowed the update, and now free42 no longer works on my N900. If you use the free42 calculator on an N900, I would advise against updating to this new vrsion. | 04:28 |
| cehteh | Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2101 | 04:35 |
| cehteh | .. thats one of the first production batches or? | 04:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | cehteh: where did you get the revno | 04:36 |
| cehteh | flasher | 04:36 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 04:36 |
| cehteh | it also shows the list of images it can flash .. 2101 seems very early .. | 04:36 |
| cehteh | actually i dont find a lower number | 04:37 |
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| cehteh | so .. sending it back and hoping to get a device with more childhood diseases fixed | 04:37 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 04:38 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a 2101 too | 04:38 |
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| matthew- | WOW | 04:38 |
| SpeedEvil | cat /proc/cpuinfo | 04:38 |
| matthew- | that's a massive support group | 04:38 |
| matthew- | is the hype created by n900? | 04:38 |
| SpeedEvil | We're an insult group, idiot. | 04:39 |
| matthew- | w/e | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Many of us have n900s. | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | And most are happy with them. | 04:39 |
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| matthew- | well i am too | 04:40 |
| matthew- | apart from the bat life | 04:40 |
| SpeedEvil | battery life seems to vary some with some users hitting bad usecases or having bad APs. | 04:40 |
| SpeedEvil | What sort of battery life? | 04:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | And some of the software hasn't been optimised yet. | 04:41 |
| matthew- | yeah i know | 04:41 |
| matthew- | but a few hours when im on it heavily | 04:41 |
| |R | Does anyone know if the firmware update will bring a newer version of the kernel or just patch to it ? | 04:41 |
| cehteh | some hardware neither grr | 04:41 |
| Pavlov | battery life is a joke | 04:41 |
| SpeedEvil | xchat just got a bit better today forex - as it was poling every 0.5s. | 04:41 |
| matthew- | well i dont use it to irc | 04:42 |
| cehteh | |R: likely only fixes | 04:42 |
| matthew- | if i do, its via terminal and ssh | 04:42 |
| cehteh | but no one knows for sure | 04:42 |
| Pavlov | mine sitting idle gets like 8 hours | 04:42 |
| Pavlov | when its on the network | 04:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Pavlov: your AP sucks | 04:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Pavlov: probably | 04:42 |
| Pavlov | SpeedEvil: its not on wifi | 04:42 |
| Pavlov | on 3g | 04:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Pavlov: 3G sucks power if the data connection is active at all | 04:42 |
| Pavlov | sure | 04:42 |
| Pavlov | my iphone still lasts 3x longer | 04:43 |
| KenYoung | Is 3G more power-hungry than WiFi? | 04:43 |
| Pavlov | or, well, really, every phone i have | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Pavlov: Some oif that may be due to stuff not being properly optimised. | 04:43 |
| matthew- | iddle with wifi | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | KenYoung: _lots_ | 04:43 |
| cehteh | way more | 04:43 |
| matthew- | is about 24h | 04:43 |
| Pavlov | SpeedEvil: i'm sure it is | 04:43 |
| arachnist | KenYoung: quite a bit | 04:43 |
| cehteh | switch back to gsm if you can | 04:43 |
| Pavlov | but excuses don't really matter for users | 04:43 |
| matthew- | maybe more | 04:43 |
| KenYoung | Thanks, that's good to know. | 04:43 |
| KenYoung | (about the power, that is) | 04:44 |
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| Pavlov | "your phone would be better except the software isn't done yet" | 04:44 |
| SpeedEvil | KenYoung: ssh'd into it, asking for battery life every 20s, it lasts >30h. on wifi. On 3g - maybe 4-5 | 04:44 |
| cehteh | i hope there will be an automatic switcher between 2g/3g depending on application/load | 04:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Pavlov: the iphone software has gotten substantial polishing as it has gone along. | 04:44 |
| KenYoung | SpeedEvil, How does WiFi bandwidth compare with 3G, typically? | 04:44 |
| matthew- | KenYoung: massive difference. | 04:45 |
| Pavlov | SpeedEvil: mostly going down hill ;/ | 04:45 |
| cehteh | 3g has horrible latency .. bandwidth can be good, but depends on the cell where you are | 04:45 |
| SpeedEvil | KenYoung: wifi is G. I get umm. 150kbytes/s or so on 3G | 04:45 |
| jebba | ftp://espejo.freemoe.org/repository.maemo.org/ | 04:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Though it of course varies | 04:45 |
| matthew- | KenYoung: WiFi you'll get that 1GB and 3g ull get to 200kb/s | 04:45 |
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| matthew- | kbps | 04:45 |
| SpeedEvil | 1G? | 04:45 |
| Pavlov | my other n900 that usually sits idle has great battery life | 04:45 |
| matthew- | 1MB | 04:46 |
| SpeedEvil | wifi is 54mbps | 04:46 |
| Pavlov | idle/off the network/nothing running/setup | 04:46 |
| Pavlov | like 4 days? | 04:46 |
| jX | Pavlov: Stuart? | 04:46 |
| Pavlov | hi | 04:46 |
| jX | heh | 04:46 |
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| jX | hey there. Wasn't sure if that was really you or another pav. :) | 04:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Pavlov: have you installed any of teh non-nokia apps? | 04:46 |
| Pavlov | SpeedEvil: nope | 04:46 |
| matthew- | Pavlov: well my n900 on iddle with wifi on all the time, + emails and shit | 04:47 |
| matthew- | is about 24h | 04:47 |
| Pavlov | matthew-: nice | 04:47 |
| Pavlov | maybe i should put mine on wifi while it is idle | 04:47 |
| cehteh | really depends on your AP .. some break powermanagement | 04:47 |
| matthew- | Pavlov: mine switces to wifi | 04:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Specific usecases that are badly performing in terms of battery life can often be worked around some. | 04:48 |
| matthew- | when available | 04:48 |
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| cehteh | and even worse there is a bug which makes turning wlan off still suck power | 04:48 |
| pupnik | it's good we're finding bugs | 04:48 |
| cehteh | well | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | The 1.1 firmware reportedly has some stupid number of bugs fixed. | 04:48 |
| pupnik | :) | 04:48 |
| cehteh | good if someone else finds them .. :P | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | having said that - I find no real show-stopper bugs for using it as a phone. | 04:49 |
| cehteh | i am actually quite pissed today | 04:49 |
| Pavlov | SpeedEvil: tmobile is my biggest one | 04:49 |
| SpeedEvil | USB connector faling off isn't good. | 04:49 |
| Pavlov | at&t drops calls all the time cause their network sucks, tmobile i just hit dead spots :( | 04:49 |
| jX | agreed. would it really have cost much more to use a transceiver that worked on AT&T's network too? | 04:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Pavlov: Why? | 04:49 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - US | 04:49 |
| jX | yeah | 04:49 |
| SpeedEvil | jX: yes, it would. | 04:49 |
| jX | only 300 million of us. | 04:49 |
| jX | SpeedEvil: I disagree, I can't see more than a penny a part. | 04:50 |
| cehteh | well its a loose connection on the charger side (the male micro usb) | 04:50 |
| SpeedEvil | jX: you cannot produce a radio that works on AT&Ts network without AT&Ts approval. | 04:50 |
| jX | granted I can't find a spec sheet listing the exact part used, but still. | 04:50 |
| cehteh | so i can still charge via usb | 04:50 |
| jX | SpeedEvil: LOL, sure. | 04:50 |
| cehteh | but this device goes back next days .. grr | 04:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | jX: And the radio is in the $30-40 range, it's one of the expensive bits in the phone. | 04:51 |
| Pavlov | oh, yeah, we had one usb connector come out of the device | 04:51 |
| cehteh | jX: i thought its a software and not tranceiver problem | 04:51 |
| matthew- | SpeedEvil: ur in UK ? | 04:51 |
| SpeedEvil | The standards used in the US essentially mean you'd need a largely completely seperate part of the radio for theUS. | 04:51 |
| jX | cehteh: AFAIK it's the chip itself, but I could be mistaken. | 04:51 |
| SpeedEvil | matthew-: yes. | 04:51 |
| matthew- | same, what network? | 04:51 |
| jX | SpeedEvil: Er, no? | 04:51 |
| cehteh | i read everywhere "quad band, works anywhere around the world" | 04:51 |
| matthew- | cehteh: well it does. | 04:52 |
| jX | cehteh: Works and works on all 3g networks are two different statements | 04:52 |
| Pavlov | you can put a at&t sim in the n900 works fine | 04:52 |
| jX | it WORKS on AT&T, I use it daily | 04:52 |
| Pavlov | just not on 3g | 04:52 |
| zsoc | Does maemo's implementation of SDL support the SDL_DOUBLEBUF video flag? | 04:52 |
| jX | but it's edge speed only | 04:52 |
| cehteh | ok | 04:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Ok - AT&Ts CDMA network was what I was referring to, sorry to be unclear. | 04:52 |
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| GAN900 | Such a stupid decision on Nokia's part | 04:52 |
| GAN900 | But it's clear they don't care about the US. | 04:53 |
| matthew- | I waited for the phone for over 8 months | 04:53 |
| matthew- | And im really happy with it. | 04:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I think they evisioned the phone selling in rather smaller volumes. | 04:53 |
| matthew- | GAN900: well they kinda do. | 04:53 |
| cehteh | there are a lot doubtful hardware decisions ... | 04:53 |
| cehteh | but well .. i dont engineer phones | 04:53 |
| matthew- | cehteh: not really | 04:53 |
| matthew- | cehteh: I deal with semiconductors, and they picked best possible hardware with good roadmaps | 04:53 |
| SpeedEvil | And the USA variant being produced along with an evolved next version. | 04:53 |
| matthew- | nothing will go obsolete in a while | 04:54 |
| jX | SpeedEvil: The transceover chips aren't that costly, I hate to tell you. | 04:54 |
| cehteh | the gps could be better, the frontcam is to be seen if it works better with new firmware | 04:54 |
| jX | the cpu costs more. | 04:54 |
| matthew- | jX: the 'design' is the cost of electronics, not the hardware. | 04:54 |
| matthew- | hardware cost is under 100usd. | 04:54 |
| SpeedEvil | jX: the trancievers are not perhaps individually costly, but adding extra stuff to a small device is not free, even if the parts are. | 04:54 |
| jX | granted, but making a given chip access one more freq isn't that costly. | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not. | 04:55 |
| jX | so to state that yeah, it was a huge cost issue is untrue | 04:55 |
| jX | it was simply more than they wanted to spend | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a completely seperate radio for CDMA - pretty much. | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Or it's a chipset that supports all bands. | 04:55 |
| jX | AT&T isn't CDMA, you're thinking sprint and verizon | 04:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ok - my knowledge of the US cellphone network isn't great, sorry. | 04:56 |
| GAN900 | WCDMA != CDMA | 04:56 |
| jX | indeed | 04:56 |
| jX | the difference between TMob in teh US and AT&T is merely teh frequencies used for 3g | 04:56 |
| GAN900 | It's not the radio type, it's the frequencies. | 04:57 |
| jX | but please, feel free to continue to spout bullshit. | 04:57 |
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| pupnik_ | cehteh: been abusing the usb port again? | 04:57 |
| cehteh | pupnik: again? | 04:58 |
| cehteh | abuse? | 04:58 |
| pupnik_ | you say connection is loose. a few people have ripped theirs also. | 04:58 |
| Pavlov | pupnik_: yeah, one of my guys pulled one out | 04:58 |
| Pavlov | they're not in there very good | 04:58 |
| Pavlov | i'd return it, asap! | 04:58 |
| cehteh | on the cable side here, luckyle not the device connector | 04:58 |
| ali1234 | you know there isn't just "the radio chip", it's a whole chipset | 04:59 |
| pupnik_ | wow. my plea is for shorter lever-arms on usb cables | 04:59 |
| cehteh | so i can charge with usb .. but the charger is out of order | 04:59 |
| ali1234 | frontend chips handle the different frequencies | 04:59 |
| jX | ali1234: right | 04:59 |
| ali1234 | even the n900 probably has multiple different frontend chips already | 04:59 |
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| jX | yes, but there are chipsets that can handle both sets of US 3g freqs already, and the cost diff between the two is trivial. | 05:00 |
| cehteh | well just add a connector which is screwed (or even only crimped!) to the pcb wouldnt cost a arm and a leg and make this much more reliable than surface soldering only | 05:00 |
| pupnik_ | i think the stupid thing is the cable tbh | 05:01 |
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| pupnik_ | look at the lever-arm | 05:01 |
| denix0 | jX | 05:01 |
| Pavlov | the usb thing on the device is horribly attached | 05:01 |
| cehteh | solder and copper surface on the pcb are not made for mechanical stress | 05:02 |
| pupnik_ | right, bingo | 05:02 |
| denix0 | any actual handsets with those chipsets? | 05:02 |
| pupnik_ | so eliminate the source of stress | 05:02 |
| Pavlov | or at least tie down the connector | 05:02 |
| ali1234 | jX: those chipsets aren't nokia chipsets, and they are heavily patented and expensive, even if the manufacturing cost is low | 05:02 |
| ali1234 | even if they are nokia chipsets, they're using a lot of qualcomm patents | 05:03 |
| ali1234 | that's where all the cost of the phone goes, patent licensing to recover R&D | 05:03 |
| jX | amazinly, I know that as well. But I'm going to stop now, since the point here was the cost difference btween one part and another, and it doesn't seem I'm comunicating that well. | 05:04 |
| ali1234 | it isn't a direct replacement part | 05:05 |
| jX | gotcha. | 05:05 |
| ali1234 | it's the cost between putting in an additional front end chip, and not | 05:05 |
| ali1234 | and also licensing all the extra patents | 05:05 |
| jX | right | 05:05 |
| johnx | jX, also, if they're not available in any other phone right now, then they probably didn't exist when Nokia was finalizing the N900 design | 05:06 |
| jX | sure thing | 05:06 |
| johnx | in other news: I asked a t-mo USA employee and he seems to think t-mo will be selling them at some point in the nearish future | 05:07 |
| jebba | GAN900: if you can't get to the repos, just point here: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ :P | 05:07 |
| pupnik_ | the provider situation in USA is not what one could call 'a competitive market' | 05:07 |
| jX | there was no such thing as half a dozen blackberry phones over the past 2 years that work on both 3G networks. nope. | 05:07 |
| johnx | I highly doubt he has any kind of serious inside access, so take it with a grain of salt, but he seemed convinced at least | 05:07 |
| jX | not even cheap ones meant to expand blackberry's footprint in the consumer segment. | 05:07 |
| jX | hence, no chipsets at anything like a reasonable price. | 05:07 |
| johnx | jX, ah. I didn't know that. (sarcasm deserved though) | 05:08 |
| ali1234 | it may even be the case that it just can't be done with current chipsets, i mean HTC make two version of all their 3g phones, there must be a reason for that | 05:08 |
| jX | OH WAYT | 05:08 |
| ali1234 | basically one for US and one for everyone else | 05:08 |
| pupnik_ | a phone mfgr making special models for certain providers is uncool | 05:08 |
| jX | ali1234: Yeah, there is, three pennies per unit across 5 million units adds up | 05:08 |
| jX | I gett hat | 05:08 |
| johnx | pupnik, uncool, but very common | 05:08 |
| matthew- | w/e. | 05:08 |
| jX | however, this isn't a low cost unit | 05:08 |
| matthew- | US is not the biggest market for nokia | 05:09 |
| matthew- | never will be | 05:09 |
| jX | it's unsubsidised, with endusers bearing all the burden | 05:09 |
| matthew- | and never was. | 05:09 |
| *** pupnik has quit IRC | 05:09 | |
| jX | an extra threecents per unit is bearable to the market | 05:09 |
| pupnik_ | but it's not an extra three cents | 05:10 |
| *** pupnik_ is now known as pupnik | 05:10 | |
| ali1234 | even assuming it is possible, three cents per unit is nowhere near the actual cost | 05:10 |
| matthew- | so stop whine ;-) | 05:10 |
| matthew- | dsaddsdsdd;] | 05:10 |
| matthew- | Ofc is not. | 05:10 |
| jX | oh for christ's sake. Does anyone here grasp the concept of a generalization? | 05:10 |
| johnx | jX, so why do you think Nokia didn't do it in the case of the N900 (or any of their other phones)? | 05:10 |
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| matthew- | jX: well as I said i work with semiconductors, and its not only cost of the hardware. | 05:11 |
| jX | further, does anyone have anything ot offer other than irrelevant and obvious statements? | 05:11 |
| matthew- | ANY chip change = redesign | 05:11 |
| jX | matt_c: Please, shut up. Everyone knows this. | 05:11 |
| GAN900 | matthew-, Nokia's market share in the US is, sadly, completely deserved. | 05:11 |
| jX | that and that the us isn't nokia's bigget market | 05:11 |
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| matthew- | GAN900: It was never a focus. | 05:11 |
| matthew- | jX: well stop making idiotic statements then. | 05:11 |
| matthew- | stupid question = stupid answer. | 05:11 |
| kamui2 | he makes a good point | 05:11 |
| jX | I haven't been | 05:11 |
| kamui2 | that was somewhat idiotic | 05:12 |
| matthew- | 04:09 < jX> an extra threecents per unit is bearable to the market | 05:12 |
| dmj7261 | I think Nokia has about as big a share in the US market as they can get considering their carrier relations, and the carrier's practices | 05:12 |
| matthew- | its extra manhours | 05:12 |
| matthew- | bla bla bla | 05:12 |
| siriusnova | Nokia needs to release an update that keeps the N900 from crashing and being a buggy piece of crap before it can compete in any market | 05:12 |
| siriusnova | :| | 05:12 |
| jX | matthew-: you'd be surprisde how little manhour difference there would have been for a compatible part. | 05:12 |
| pupnik | stable here | 05:12 |
| jX | ditto | 05:12 |
| matthew- | jX: well I wouldnt. I work with them for years now. | 05:13 |
| johnx | jX, answer for my question? | 05:13 |
| matthew- | And I know exactly how electronics life-cycle works. | 05:13 |
| kamui2 | seriously, when was the N900 even marketed as a mass market device | 05:13 |
| dmj7261 | it wasn't | 05:13 |
| matthew- | kamui2: It wasnt, and it wont be. | 05:13 |
| kamui2 | it seems to me they knew from teh getgo it wasn't goign to be ready for the sheep | 05:13 |
| jX | johnx: isn't it obvious? They decided the US+AT&T segment was too small to bother with. | 05:13 |
| ali1234 | here's the thing. nokia could have put in the extra chip, at a cost of perhaps an extra $50 per unit, plus an extra 6 months delay. and the extra US sales would dwarf the number of sales lost globally because of that. | 05:13 |
| jX | wasn't cost effective from their view | 05:13 |
| matthew- | It's not iPhone competitor, as most of people say. | 05:13 |
| kamui2 | so why are we even debating this | 05:13 |
| johnx | jX, that doesn't make much sense if it's really as cheap as you say, does it? | 05:14 |
| cehteh | blender on the iphone? :) | 05:14 |
| jX | kamui2: An excelletn question. I merely bitched. | 05:14 |
| dmj7261 | I think Nokia was more surprised that it got as much reaction as it did. | 05:14 |
| johnx | cehteh, iphone in a blender? | 05:14 |
| matthew- | ali1234: well, see it wouldnt because in 6 months the chips that they've put in wouldn't be such a good choice | 05:14 |
| jX | kamui2: Then several people decied to illuminate us that grass is green. | 05:14 |
| dmj7261 | johnx: I've seen that | 05:14 |
| cehteh | johnx: actually seen that :P willitblend.com | 05:14 |
| kamui2 | cehteh it was a typo, I fixed it. | 05:14 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: I have sent in a request to blendtek to review the n900. | 05:14 |
| kamui2 | cehteh: but not before it spread all over the internet :) | 05:14 |
| kamui2 | which im surprised its on as many sites less than 10 hours later as it is | 05:15 |
| Pavlov | i considered buying a blendtek to put my n900 in | 05:15 |
| jX | ali1234: I fyou really think it'd have been an extra $50 per unit then you really need to stop talking and go look at integration costs. | 05:15 |
| matthew- | dmj7261: It's cause of Maemo hype. | 05:15 |
| matthew- | and being first 'geeky friendly' phone | 05:15 |
| kamui2 | dude, I give up, my wifi just aint working | 05:15 |
| kamui2 | seems to be just on the phone too | 05:15 |
| jX | Pavlov: I'm sure dolske would love to drop it in the blender :) | 05:15 |
| denix0 | is powertop in any of the standard repos? | 05:16 |
| dmj7261 | matthew: you just described why I got one. | 05:16 |
| matthew- | jX: You are retarded. The cost of putting an extra chip (if not implemented in the first design) would actually be around 50usd/handset. and millions in losses in a few months sales. | 05:16 |
| matthew- | dmj7261: Same. | 05:16 |
| matthew- | Android didnt work for me. | 05:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I was blown away when when my laptop drive started making wierd noises, I realised I could just install rsync and rsync over the files from my laptop. | 05:16 |
| cehteh | http://www.blendtec.com/willitblend/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=iphone | 05:16 |
| jX | matt_c: You're off your rocker. You're acting like it's a group up design, rather than a nearly identical part swap. | 05:17 |
| jX | er, matthew- | 05:17 |
| * matt_c may be off his rocker as well :) | 05:17 | |
| jX | We're NOT talking CDMA/GSM here people | 05:17 |
| jX | we're talking a quadband chip as opposed to a triband, and one badn is only 50mhz off | 05:17 |
| dmj7261 | Eh, in the USA you wouldn't even really want to use the other gsm network. | 05:17 |
| jX | we'r enot talking completely differetn tech of huge ranges | 05:17 |
| dmj7261 | (unless you already had an iphone) | 05:18 |
| SpeedEvil | quinband | 05:18 |
| matthew- | queer band. | 05:18 |
| matthew- | jX: there is a quadband chip. | 05:18 |
| jX | I'm talking the UTMS transceiver | 05:18 |
| dmj7261 | ATT is not exactly known for their robust network | 05:18 |
| jX | not the GSM part | 05:18 |
| kamui2 | router upgarde | 05:18 |
| kamui2 | brb | 05:18 |
| jX | er, UMTS, typo | 05:19 |
| jX | it's bloody cold for virginia... | 05:19 |
| dmj7261 | yeah, but it already works just fine on tmobile and wouldn't work on cdma either way | 05:19 |
| jX | I AM NOT TALKING CDMA | 05:19 |
| jX | jesus christ | 05:19 |
| matthew- | jX: Well, move away from US then :) | 05:19 |
| dmj7261 | I know. | 05:20 |
| jX | maybe everyone here is just making assumptions. AT&T and TMobile both use GSM technologies. Both use identical frequencies too, except for the 3g service, which is about 50mhz apart. | 05:20 |
| matthew- | is atnt and tmobile usingdifferent bands? | 05:20 |
| jX | nokia chose to ignore (IIRC) teh 850 UTMS band | 05:20 |
| dmj7261 | I'm just saying that ATT is not that appealing unless you want an iphone | 05:20 |
| matthew- | AH. | 05:20 |
| matthew- | ok | 05:20 |
| jX | dmj7261: Or you already have AT&T | 05:20 |
| dmj7261 | so adding a chip to support att won't change much | 05:21 |
| dmj7261 | yeah, if you're stuck on ATT that sucks | 05:21 |
| matthew- | jX: cant u just move ur number/contract to another provider? | 05:21 |
| * jX facepalms | 05:21 | |
| redeeman | dmj7261: you are not listening to him | 05:21 |
| matthew- | :-) | 05:21 |
| jX | is there an IQ restriction on this channel I missed? | 05:21 |
| ali1234 | wait, are you saying the N900 is not compatible with GSM on AT&T? | 05:21 |
| matthew- | jX: yes, you're well under it. | 05:21 |
| redeeman | dmj7261: there need not be added any chip, merely changed to one that supports one more frequency for the same gsm/3g technology | 05:21 |
| dmj7261 | You can move your number but you might have a hassle breaking contract | 05:21 |
| redeeman | ali1234: only 3g on att | 05:21 |
| microlith | no but it seems this has descended into a pointless argument | 05:21 |
| jX | oh my god, redeeman: I LOVE YOU | 05:22 |
| matthew- | dmj7261: well, not in the UK. you can just 'move' your remaining time of the contract bla bla bla | 05:22 |
| jX | MARRY ME | 05:22 |
| matthew- | to different provider. | 05:22 |
| redeeman | jX: i have had some pretty baffling discussions inhere aswell.. | 05:22 |
| zsoc | Does maemo's implementation of SDL support the SDL_DOUBLEBUF video flag? | 05:22 |
| ali1234 | redeeman: on 3g what? | 05:22 |
| jX | redeeman: Any second I expect Oompa Loompas to come marching through with a moral lesson in song. | 05:22 |
| dmj7261 | I know that he just wants the chip changed. I'm just saying that the market for such is small | 05:22 |
| matthew- | jX: is this chip also from broadcom ? | 05:22 |
| ali1234 | redeeman: only 3g works? or only 3g doesn't work? | 05:22 |
| matthew- | that supports 850 ? | 05:22 |
| redeeman | ali1234: on AT&T, you won't get support for 3g | 05:23 |
| dmj7261 | n900 supports gsm and 2g on att but not 3g | 05:23 |
| jX | matthew-: I don't know what chips the n900 uses | 05:23 |
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| jX | ali1234: Yes, it is, but it won't do UMTS on AT&T because of frequency issues. I'm using my 900 on AT&T right now. | 05:23 |
| jX | but no 3g speed unless I move to tmobile. | 05:23 |
| dmj7261 | Of course if you could upgrade it via drivers to do att 3g it would be totally worth it. | 05:23 |
| jX | which I MIGHT | 05:23 |
| matthew- | jX: well then i suggest looking at a roadmap of the chip that supports 850 AND 900 as opposed to the one that uses the 900 only. | 05:23 |
| redeeman | I ofc don't give a rats ass about at&t or any other american crappy carrier | 05:23 |
| dmj7261 | I'm liking some of Tmobile's recent moves. | 05:24 |
| jX | matthew-: And what do you think this will tell me? seriously, I'm not sure why you suggest this | 05:24 |
| redeeman | dmj7261: they do appear to be the most sane, using proper frequencies and all | 05:24 |
| jX | tmobile has great pricing too | 05:24 |
| jX | but at&t's networkis faaster, sadlty. | 05:25 |
| dmj7261 | and encouraging unsubsidised phones without contracts | 05:25 |
| redeeman | i hear they are a joke though, with crappy coverage and such | 05:25 |
| matthew- | jX: It may give you a suggestion to why they picked what they did. | 05:25 |
| dmj7261 | and being a lot less expesnive | 05:25 |
| jX | matthew-: As I Stated several days ago, I know why they did, a minor cost savings. | 05:25 |
| jX | I'm merely bitching about that. | 05:25 |
| pupnik | if there are smart people in the room, how can i hook up a midi keyboard to N900? ;) | 05:25 |
| matthew- | jX: i doubt they would make it for a 5c cost savings. | 05:25 |
| matthew- | jX: their policy is different. | 05:26 |
| jX | matthew-: Yes, as I states, that was an exxageration | 05:26 |
| dmj7261 | does the keyboard have bluetooth or usb host? | 05:26 |
| matthew- | even 1USD | 05:26 |
| jX | stated | 05:26 |
| matthew- | which it wouldnt be as much as 1$ | 05:26 |
| arachnist | pupnik: if you can find one with bluetooth... | 05:26 |
| pupnik | can't - needs to be cable/midi or usb | 05:26 |
| matthew- | jX: I'll make the effort and check it for you tomorrow. I've got BOM for n900 in my office. | 05:26 |
| jX | redeeman: proper frequencies? What makes 900mhz more proper than 850? | 05:26 |
| arachnist | pupnik: usbip might be an option | 05:26 |
| redeeman | jX: the civilized world uses those frequencies | 05:26 |
| jX | matthew-: For that I would be EXTREMELY grateful. I don't want to crack open my 900 | 05:27 |
| * SpeedEvil steals matthews office. | 05:27 | |
| jX | I've even looked at the repair manual, and teardowns, no one has high enough res pix | 05:27 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders what he will do with the alligator. | 05:27 | |
| matthew- | SpeedEvil: ;] | 05:27 |
| arachnist | pupnik: but you'd need a pc to actually hook it up, and use usbip to "proxy" it from the pc to the n900 | 05:27 |
| jX | redeeman: so, because Europe uses 900, that makes 850 wrong? | 05:27 |
| arachnist | pupnik: n900 has no usb by itself | 05:27 |
| pupnik | ah interesting | 05:27 |
| SpeedEvil | I want to crack open my n900 and solder crap to it. | 05:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Also work out the USB host thing. | 05:28 |
| pupnik | maybe n800 or 770 then | 05:28 |
| dmj7261 | SpeedEvil: a usb port! | 05:28 |
| matthew- | jX: No worries. We supplied all B and C class components to them for years now. | 05:28 |
| matthew- | and they do make 'weird' decisions from what I know, but when you look closer they're most sane ;-) | 05:28 |
| redeeman | jX: not just europe, as i said, the civilized world, it was merely a choice to be made, someone in !.us made the choice of 900, even one in .us made it, seems insane to not use it for at&t | 05:28 |
| SpeedEvil | dmj7261: As far as I can tell the USB phy chip should support host mode, it's not implemented in the driver as I can see. | 05:28 |
| matthew- | and what like what, they're _not_ a cost cutting company. | 05:28 |
| arachnist | jX: well, given the state of USA cellular networks, anything other than what's used in europe might be considered wrong ;) | 05:28 |
| pupnik | SpeedEvil: so hacked driver + powered hub and win. :) | 05:29 |
| matthew- | SpeedEvil: what USB thing? | 05:29 |
| redeeman | jX: its one more example of the grotesk system which you have in the US, which is obviously the equivelant of a cavemans insane invention | 05:29 |
| pupnik | arachnist: ++ | 05:29 |
| jX | redeeman: yes, so the US is uncivilized. Thanks. | 05:29 |
| redeeman | jX: im afraid you are | 05:29 |
| jX | mhmm. | 05:29 |
| SpeedEvil | matt: the twl4030 | 05:29 |
| redeeman | jX: and i can proove it | 05:29 |
| jX | please do. | 05:29 |
| dmj7261 | SpeedEvil: You feel like writing a driver? | 05:29 |
| redeeman | jX: very well.. but i shall privmsg it to you as to not be offtopic inhere | 05:29 |
| SpeedEvil | matt: I forget the equivalent part with released specs. | 05:29 |
| matthew- | SpeedEvil: tab pls! :D | 05:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | dmj7261: I feel like investigating what the issues are. | 05:30 |
| jX | I'll grant that the cell infrastructure in the US is dumb. | 05:30 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 05:30 |
| matthew- | SpeedEvil: tab my whole nick so ill get highlight ;D | 05:30 |
| SpeedEvil | matthew-: ah | 05:30 |
| SpeedEvil | diddn't realise I was doing that | 05:31 |
| arachnist | jX: in europe you can buy a phone in spain, go to poland and you can be sure that everything the phone supports will work in poland (unless it's some phone-firmware and operator specific feature) | 05:31 |
| Pavlov | its like that in the US too | 05:31 |
| jX | arachnist: Yes, I'm aware, you can do that here too unles syou buy a CDMA phone from sprint or verizon | 05:31 |
| Pavlov | you go from flordia to georgia to alabama, and your phone works | 05:31 |
| arachnist | Pavlov: except if you change carriers, you're screwed | 05:31 |
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| matthew- | Pavlov: except both florida, georgia and alabama are in the same country | 05:31 |
| matthew- | ;) | 05:31 |
| Pavlov | matthew-: well, sure, but they're also as big as many countries in europe ;p | 05:32 |
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| matthew- | and asn Pavlov said you're using same careers. | 05:32 |
| auenf | <jX> I'll grant that the cell infrastructure in the US is dumb. <-- telstra has been complaining about the US cell infrastructure in their ads for 15yrs | 05:32 |
| matthew- | Pavlov: Ok, lets put it this way. you buy a phone in Russia or Japan and it works in Europe | 05:32 |
| matthew- | and not in US :D | 05:32 |
| Pavlov | in Japan? | 05:32 |
| Pavlov | really? | 05:32 |
| SpeedEvil | dmj7261: It's possible that I will find some show-stopper. But so far, I can't see one. As I can understand it, the twl4030 is the USB phy for the SoC, and the USB is in fact connected to it, and it supports host mode. | 05:32 |
| SpeedEvil | japan? | 05:32 |
| matthew- | yah. | 05:32 |
| auenf | err, doesnt japan use a propriatory network | 05:32 |
| auenf | ? | 05:33 |
| matthew- | it will only support 3G | 05:33 |
| SpeedEvil | japan is wierd | 05:33 |
| matthew- | but still. | 05:33 |
| matthew- | auenf: they have _only_ 3G | 05:33 |
| dmj7261 | wcdma is japan | 05:33 |
| arachnist | japan is another story | 05:33 |
| * Pavlov thinks one of the people in this conversation doesn't quite know what they're talking about | 05:33 | |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: figured out how to handle power on the usb port? .. | 05:33 |
| matthew- | still will work :D | 05:33 |
| arachnist | they've had FTTH links for quite some time now | 05:34 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: I'm assuming external cable. | 05:34 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: the twl* does have a charge pump, but I'm not sure it's implemented | 05:34 |
| SpeedEvil | (as in the required capacitor is connected) | 05:34 |
| matthew- | Pavlov: well they use what, pdc, cdma and wcdma. | 05:34 |
| cehteh | hey maybe you can power the usb port and charge the device at the same time .. pepetuum mobile! :) | 05:34 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: probably. | 05:35 |
| matthew- | Pavlov: do you can get an european phone that supports 3g and take it to japan. It will work. American one from atnt wont. | 05:35 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: err - no | 05:35 |
| matthew- | Pavlov: and the other way around. | 05:35 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: exactly that the problem if you power it up it might fry something | 05:35 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: you can probably charge while in USB host mode | 05:35 |
| jX | matt_c: Actually, no, I CAN buy some handsets from american carriers and take them worldwide | 05:35 |
| Pavlov | sorry, i lost interest | 05:35 |
| jX | er, matthew- | 05:35 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: and externally powered. | 05:35 |
| Pavlov | this conversation is silly | 05:35 |
| auenf | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScThCYgEm7g&feature=related | 05:36 |
| matthew- | jX: I still dont understand why atnt would use 850 | 05:36 |
| jX | matthew-: Regulatory issues, sadly. | 05:36 |
| matthew- | ah. | 05:36 |
| jX | they didn't have much choice. | 05:36 |
| matthew- | That's kinda idiocracy there again. | 05:36 |
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| auenf | matthew-, 850 is used in australia too | 05:36 |
| matthew- | are all other networks 900 ? | 05:36 |
| auenf | but only by 1 provider | 05:37 |
| matthew- | auenf: Oh i dont know anything about ozzies. | 05:37 |
| shinkamui | word to heard | 05:37 |
| auenf | everyone else uses 2100 | 05:37 |
| shinkamui | yea, 2100mhz is a satellite freq in the US | 05:37 |
| shinkamui | and they couldn't even standardize an alternative here | 05:37 |
| shinkamui | :( | 05:37 |
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| auenf | err, isnt it a DOD band? | 05:38 |
| matthew- | what about Verizon ? | 05:38 |
| matthew- | jX: ^^ | 05:38 |
| jX | Verizon and Sprint are CDMA | 05:38 |
| auenf | verizon is cdma? | 05:38 |
| jX | not GSM | 05:39 |
| jX | no clue about their freqs | 05:39 |
| matthew- | ah ok | 05:39 |
| matt_c | Different from the rest of the world as usual I think, but I'm not 100% sure. | 05:39 |
| auenf | most cdma networks have been (or going to) be shut down | 05:39 |
| auenf | telstra's 850 umts network used to be cdma | 05:40 |
| matthew- | auenf: And that is why? | 05:40 |
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| shinkamui | iI believe sprint and vzw are just 1900mhz pcs | 05:41 |
| shinkamui | with most devices able to roam on 800mhz | 05:41 |
| matthew- | is sprint nextel ? | 05:41 |
| zsoc | shinkamui: sprint is only 1900, verizon is both | 05:41 |
| shinkamui | more like nextel is now sprint | 05:41 |
| denix0 | sprint bought nextel | 05:42 |
| shinkamui | zsoc: that make ssense | 05:42 |
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| matthew- | yeah yeah | 05:42 |
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| zsoc | matthew-: nextel is a separate iden frequency, 100 year old garbage | 05:42 |
| shinkamui | they never managed to merge the iden tech | 05:42 |
| shinkamui | ha ha ha | 05:42 |
| matt_c | Can we argue about iDEN while we're at it? | 05:42 |
| shinkamui | sextel | 05:42 |
| johnx | matt_c, sure. no iden on the n900 = dealbreaker | 05:43 |
| denix0 | why not AMPS? | 05:43 |
| jX | AMPS FOREVER | 05:43 |
| johnx | and it doesn't work with my 49MHz fisher-price walkie-talkies | 05:44 |
| denix0 | NMT... | 05:44 |
| |R | can't wait to get a general transmitter 0-2Ghz with GnuRadio by Nokia ;-) | 05:44 |
| |R | 2/3 | 05:44 |
| jX | it better run proper Linux, not a fork, too! | 05:45 |
| jX | none of this "compiling' nonsense either! | 05:45 |
| johnx | mmmm, ForkOS | 05:45 |
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| johnx | jX, lies! pre-compiled binaries are a tool of the devil. | 05:45 |
| jX | agreed! | 05:45 |
| |R | hehe, can you trust trust? | 05:45 |
| jX | I want my Nokia GnuRadio to run RAW SOURCE CODE | 05:45 |
| pupnik | i keep hitting something that brings up 'contacts'... any ideas? | 05:46 |
| johnx | C interpreter? | 05:46 |
| johnx | pupnik, you're hitting the keyboard | 05:46 |
| johnx | stop doing that | 05:46 |
| pupnik | sometimes it comes up when i jostle device | 05:46 |
| pupnik | i'm serious | 05:46 |
| denix0 | dont jostle it! | 05:46 |
| johnx | doesn't it say not to jostle, shake, fold, spindle or mutilate right in the manual? | 05:47 |
| jX | to not taunt happy fun 900 | 05:47 |
| pupnik | i thought that was part of my testing duties ;) | 05:47 |
| jX | s/to/do/ | 05:47 |
| infobot | jX meant: do not taunt happy fun 900 | 05:47 |
| pupnik | lol johnx | 05:47 |
| pupnik | jx | 05:47 |
| pupnik | well clicking on amazon video hung it | 05:47 |
| johnx | but yeah, if you hit any key on the keyboard while not in a text field, it will bring up the contacts app | 05:47 |
| pupnik | that's it? really? | 05:48 |
| pupnik | >_< | 05:48 |
| johnx | well, it's certainly my first guess | 05:48 |
| johnx | I'd *dearly* like to disable that | 05:48 |
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| pupnik | thanks johnx - that is an amazing design choice :) | 05:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Night all | 05:50 |
| johnx | it's most annoying when I open something like SMS or IM and start typing before it fully appears and focuses the text field | 05:50 |
| johnx | 'night SpeedEvil | 05:50 |
| KenYoung | Goodnight, SpeedEvil | 05:51 |
| KenYoung | I am trying to port a gtk+ application to maemo 5. The application uses gtk_spin_button widgets to set some numerical values. The does not seem to work with maemo 5 - the up/down arrows do not appear, and the text field cannot be properly modified by keyboard input. Does maemo 5 use some other widget for this, or is there something I can do to make gtk_spin_buttons work properly? | 05:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Good luck, and I hope that you've all implemented voice control and gesture recognition byt the time I wake up. | 05:51 |
| matthew- | BTW, if someone knows. | 05:51 |
| matthew- | While plugging the device to a large LCD screen, the screen is very dark | 05:52 |
| matthew- | and if i set the device display on highest brightness the color looks shit on the TV | 05:52 |
| johnx | KenYoung, do you have an N900 to play with? or are you just working in the SDK? | 05:54 |
| KenYoung | johnx, I've got an N900, and I've got the SDK working too. | 05:55 |
| KenYoung | johnx, In the SDK, the Spin Buttons work properly, but not on the actual N900. | 05:56 |
| KenYoung | johnx, Some parts of the keyboard interaction work on the N900, for example the arrow keys and delete key. But I am unable to type in explicit numeric values into the text box of the Spin Button. | 05:57 |
| johnx | sorry, I'm not much of a gtk guy and I can't picture what you're talking about exactly. Is this the kind of widget that typically has a number in it which you can either type in manually or adjust with the up/down arrows? | 05:57 |
| KenYoung | johnx, Yes, that's exactly what it is. | 05:58 |
| johnx | I can't picture any other app on the N900 using it, so I'm not really sure what that means ... | 05:58 |
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| johnx | for date/time they tend to pop-up a new window with a kineticly scrolled list of all numbers in the acceptable range | 05:59 |
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| KenYoung | johnx, Yup, I may have to go that way, although I personally think that is cumbersome. | 06:00 |
| johnx | it is for some things I think | 06:00 |
| johnx | but it seems to work well for selecting times and dates | 06:00 |
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| johnx | errr, and I'm not sure if this will help you track down gtk_spin_button, but there is a little known cross-reference here: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ | 06:01 |
| KenYoung | johnx, Not so much for arbitrary floating point values, though. | 06:01 |
| KenYoung | johnx, Thanks for the pointer! | 06:01 |
| johnx | yeah. you could have an individual 0-9 kinetic list for each place (joking of course :D ) | 06:02 |
| johnx | may I ask what this is for? | 06:02 |
| mza | anyone know what db the calendar uses to store data is? | 06:02 |
| mza | sqlite? | 06:03 |
| johnx | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Changes#Calendar_Backend | 06:03 |
| mza | thanks! | 06:04 |
| matthew- | While plugging the device to a large LCD screen, the screen is very dark | 06:04 |
| matthew- | and if i set the device display on highest brightness the color looks shit on the TV | 06:04 |
| matthew- | :D | 06:04 |
| mza | dude, it's built off iCalendar | 06:04 |
| mza | but doesn't have iCal support | 06:04 |
| mza | that's, amazing | 06:04 |
| mza | caldav i mean | 06:05 |
| matthew- | mza: iCal => google cal => n900 | 06:06 |
| matthew- | ;] | 06:06 |
| mza | seriously! | 06:07 |
| matthew- | why not ? | 06:07 |
| mza | what? | 06:07 |
| johnx | matthew-, yup. saw that the first time. I still don't have an answer | 06:07 |
| matthew- | johnx: ;] | 06:07 |
| matthew- | Is there any RSS on maemo.org ? | 06:09 |
| matthew- | i mean the talk.maemo.org | 06:09 |
| jebba | ya | 06:10 |
| jebba | matthew-: http://talk.maemo.org/external.php?forumid=44 | 06:10 |
| jebba | to get N900 forum, for example. Look at other forumid's to get whichever ones you want. It's a bit borked because if someone posts the follow up post you *always* get the first post in the thread in your feed | 06:11 |
| matthew- | yh ok | 06:11 |
| matthew- | jebba: and any good RSS reader for maemo? | 06:13 |
| johnx | google.com/reader/i | 06:13 |
| matthew- | i rather a standalone app | 06:14 |
| johnx | it comes with one built-in I believe | 06:14 |
| jebba | matthew-: ya, it comes with one, but i only used it once. I read it on my laptop | 06:16 |
| jebba | so i dont know offhand | 06:16 |
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| shinkamui | shit the google voice plugin shows up again | 06:18 |
| shinkamui | but it still seems borked | 06:18 |
| shinkamui | wont ever sign in | 06:18 |
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| shinkamui | oh well, Im about to go through hell by adding jabber with my transports to n900's im services | 06:19 |
| shinkamui | that will be about 2 hours of contact merging :) | 06:19 |
| johnx | 'night all. | 06:19 |
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| GAN900 | shinkamui, Telepathy Extras? | 06:23 |
| shinkamui | yea | 06:23 |
| matthew- | and anything to show bat life in %% | 06:23 |
| matthew- | or time left ? | 06:23 |
| GAN900 | matthew-, time left is complete meaningless | 06:24 |
| GAN900 | lshal | grep battery | 06:24 |
| matthew- | gez i love linux on a mobile | 06:26 |
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| Aakash | What package is NMAP in? | 06:30 |
| luke-jr | nmap | 06:31 |
| luke-jr | if it's available at all | 06:31 |
| Aakash | then its not :( | 06:32 |
| Aakash | also, the "host" command | 06:32 |
| luke-jr | what exactly is that supposed to do? | 06:34 |
| luke-jr | bind-utils has 'dig' | 06:35 |
| Aakash | example: | 06:35 |
| Aakash | AakashPatel:~ AakashPatel$ host 69.69.69.69 | 06:36 |
| Aakash | 69.69.69.69.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer the-coolest-ip-on-the-net.com. | 06:36 |
| luke-jr | dig -x 69.69.69.69 | 06:37 |
| Aakash | oh | 06:37 |
| Aakash | thats cool. | 06:37 |
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| Aakash | lulz | 06:37 |
| Aakash | -sh dig: not found | 06:37 |
| pupnik | ali1234: 500 ps1 games in cds. http://cgi.ebay.de/Uber-500-PS1-Spiele-Riesige-Sammlung-lesen-PS1_W0QQitemZ360217490416QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGro%C3%9Fhandelsposten?hash=item53dea2b3f0 ;) | 06:43 |
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| v2px_ | holy shit | 06:44 |
| Aakash | oh my | 06:44 |
| luke-jr | Aakash: [22:35:09] <luke-jr> bind-utils has 'dig' | 06:45 |
| Aakash | i swera i just insatlled it | 06:45 |
| Aakash | oh nvm | 06:46 |
| Aakash | diff package | 06:46 |
| Aakash | but its not in extras | 06:46 |
| Aakash | uhh | 06:46 |
| Aakash | is it in the repo's at all? | 06:46 |
| Aakash | `bind-utils` | 06:47 |
| luke-jr | complain to all those n00bs who claim Maemo is Debian | 06:47 |
| Aakash | Omg | 06:47 |
| Aakash | I was lied to??! | 06:47 |
| * Aakash takes out the knife | 06:47 | |
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| Aakash | i could just recompile it...right? | 06:50 |
| luke-jr | good luck | 06:50 |
| Aakash | o.O | 06:50 |
| luke-jr | don't expect it to be trivial | 06:50 |
| luke-jr | you don't need to be an expert, but it's not likely to be simple | 06:50 |
| * Aakash looks up the dependencies for bind-utils | 06:51 | |
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| villager | the "host" package is in the repos | 06:52 |
| Aakash | oh it is | 06:52 |
| villager | if that helps | 06:52 |
| luke-jr | lol | 06:53 |
| Aakash | wtf hha | 06:53 |
| Aakash | i *swear* i did a search for it | 06:53 |
| Aakash | i think i need some sleep :/ | 06:53 |
| villager | looks like nmap may be in extras-testing | 06:55 |
| villager | wonder if anyone is working on porting qemu | 06:58 |
| Aakash | qemu to n900 | 06:58 |
| Aakash | oh my | 06:58 |
| villager | would be neat | 06:58 |
| Aakash | and slowww lol | 06:58 |
| Aakash | haha run windowsxp in a vm | 06:59 |
| villager | shouldn't be that slow, qemu does dynamic recompilation to native arch | 06:59 |
| luke-jr | villager: it would be slow | 06:59 |
| luke-jr | N900 has 3D accel | 06:59 |
| luke-jr | closed | 06:59 |
| luke-jr | no way qemu would be able to virtualize it | 06:59 |
| Aakash | ouch | 07:00 |
| Aakash | I HAZ TEH OPEN DEVICE | 07:00 |
| Aakash | yarite | 07:00 |
| luke-jr | ... | 07:00 |
| luke-jr | made the same mistake I did, huh? | 07:00 |
| Aakash | Yeah. | 07:00 |
| * Aakash ^5's luke-jr | 07:01 | |
| villager | does it have to virtualize it? if it can emulate a linux-x86 on linux-armel then it could use the native libgl, I think qemu is designed to be able to do that | 07:01 |
| villager | then we could run wine-x86 | 07:01 |
| villager | that could exhaust the ram though | 07:01 |
| luke-jr | villager: that's user-mode qemu | 07:01 |
| luke-jr | it doesn't run a system | 07:02 |
| villager | yes? that's my point | 07:02 |
| luke-jr | it wouldn't be emulating a N900 :p | 07:02 |
| luke-jr | you could only run the apps | 07:02 |
| luke-jr | and only ones that don't care | 07:02 |
| villager | I don't want to emulate n900, I want it to run *on* n900 | 07:02 |
| luke-jr | eh | 07:03 |
| luke-jr | what are you talking about now? | 07:03 |
| Aakash | Lol | 07:03 |
| luke-jr | using qemu to emulate an x86 nmap? | 07:03 |
| luke-jr | seriously? | 07:03 |
| Aakash | no | 07:03 |
| Aakash | he wants to emulate x86 on the device | 07:03 |
| Aakash | >.> | 07:03 |
| villager | this isn't about nmap | 07:03 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 07:03 |
| villager | more like running WinCE apps on the device | 07:04 |
| pwnguin | dynarec doesn't mean fast | 07:04 |
| luke-jr | VMWare claims to support that insanity | 07:04 |
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| luke-jr | pwnguin: "fast" is relative. dynarec means fast for an emulator | 07:04 |
| pwnguin | villager: dosbox is available | 07:04 |
| villager | or run standard x86 windows desktop apps for that matter | 07:04 |
| villager | pwnguin: I know | 07:05 |
| luke-jr | villager: you mean non-standard >:) | 07:06 |
| villager | or I could try to run the linux-x86 version of google earth on the n900 or something | 07:06 |
| luke-jr | who needs Windows crap? | 07:06 |
| villager | would probably not work though | 07:06 |
| Aakash | FUCK YEAH | 07:06 |
| Aakash | WINDOWS | 07:06 |
| luke-jr | probably would, actually | 07:06 |
| luke-jr | IIRC Google Earth is just Qt | 07:06 |
| Aakash | Yeah | 07:07 |
| * luke-jr beats Aakash with excalibolg | 07:07 | |
| Aakash | Hehehe | 07:07 |
| Aakash | wth's a n excalibolg | 07:07 |
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| luke-jr | <.< | 07:08 |
| luke-jr | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ELRZ08hNaU | 07:08 |
| Aakash | Oh god | 07:08 |
| luke-jr | XD | 07:09 |
| Aakash | Haha | 07:09 |
| Aakash | luke-jr: what other devices do you own? | 07:09 |
| Aakash | Mobile* | 07:09 |
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| Aakash | besides the oh-so-open n900 | 07:09 |
| Aakash | >.< | 07:09 |
| luke-jr | don't have n900 | 07:09 |
| Aakash | ? what u hvae | 07:09 |
| luke-jr | N810 and C760 | 07:09 |
| Aakash | ah | 07:10 |
| luke-jr | I was quite happy with C760, though it shipped more closed than N810 | 07:10 |
| Aakash | Im in the mood to d o soething crazy with my n900 | 07:10 |
| Aakash | like rm -rf / | 07:10 |
| Aakash | or something | 07:10 |
| luke-jr | Aakash: how about mailing it to me? ;) | 07:10 |
| Aakash | haha yarite | 07:11 |
| Aakash | My other phone is somewhere lost in my house | 07:11 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 07:11 |
| Aakash | ADP1 | 07:11 |
| luke-jr | I've been so close to buying a N900 the last few days | 07:12 |
| luke-jr | but I probably won't. Fool me twice, shame on me... | 07:12 |
| Aakash | Do it | 07:12 |
| luke-jr | why? | 07:12 |
| Aakash | Just cuz | 07:12 |
| luke-jr | -.- | 07:12 |
| Aakash | Or get that Nexus One haha | 07:12 |
| Aakash | I would have gotten it over this one if it had a keyboard | 07:12 |
| luke-jr | it's missing a keyboard or I probably would | 07:12 |
| luke-jr | haha | 07:13 |
| Aakash | >.< | 07:13 |
| luke-jr | 512 MB RAM would be sweet | 07:13 |
| Aakash | Yeah | 07:13 |
| Aakash | 1GHz mothafucka | 07:13 |
| luke-jr | XD | 07:13 |
| luke-jr | I would just be scared of the closedness | 07:13 |
| luke-jr | qualcomm is mucho unfriendly | 07:14 |
| Aakash | True | 07:14 |
| Aakash | But I dont see us having N900 drivers falling out of the sky either | 07:14 |
| luke-jr | no? | 07:14 |
| Aakash | Oh dude its kinda open | 07:14 |
| luke-jr | I've been given the impression that most of N900 is mainlined :p | 07:14 |
| Aakash | Like the bootloaders unlocked and tsuff | 07:14 |
| luke-jr | that's not open at all -.- | 07:15 |
| luke-jr | that's just GPL compliance | 07:15 |
| Aakash | :P for an android devices its heaven | 07:15 |
| luke-jr | oh, you mean the Nexus | 07:15 |
| pupnik | what do i do if my required libs re not in extras | 07:15 |
| Aakash | yeah lol | 07:15 |
| luke-jr | pupnik: freak out and run for your life | 07:15 |
| Aakash | I agree with luke-jr | 07:15 |
| luke-jr | Aakash: how about the hardware tho? | 07:15 |
| Aakash | What do you mean... | 07:16 |
| luke-jr | meh, without a keyboard it doesn't matter | 07:16 |
| Aakash | Yeah | 07:16 |
| Aakash | true | 07:16 |
| luke-jr | I don't want a stupid phone | 07:16 |
| luke-jr | I want a handheld | 07:16 |
| Aakash | Werd. | 07:16 |
| Aakash | Oh wait..N900 offers that | 07:16 |
| Aakash | :0 | 07:16 |
| luke-jr | ? | 07:16 |
| Aakash | Handheld lol | 07:16 |
| luke-jr | only in theory | 07:16 |
| luke-jr | but in theory, N810 did too | 07:16 |
| Aakash | True. | 07:16 |
| * Aakash thinks it would be cool to port android userspace to n900 | 07:17 | |
| aziwoqpd | are they going to port maemo 6 to the n900 when it comes out? | 07:17 |
| aziwoqpd | or is that still secret | 07:17 |
| Aakash | aziwoqpd: sekrit | 07:17 |
| luke-jr | Aakash: not practical, and besides, Android sucks | 07:17 |
| aziwoqpd | curse those finns | 07:17 |
| luke-jr | aziwoqpd: "no" | 07:17 |
| luke-jr | the official word is no | 07:17 |
| Aakash | luke-jr: at least it has apps :/ | 07:17 |
| luke-jr | Aakash: so does KDE 4? | 07:17 |
| sheepbat | aww really, luke-jr ? | 07:17 |
| luke-jr | sheepbat: that's what I hear | 07:17 |
| sheepbat | it's not going to have the hardware to support 6? | 07:17 |
| Aakash | orly? | 07:18 |
| Aakash | "no" | 07:18 |
| luke-jr | I'm just repeating the stuff others say here | 07:18 |
| sheepbat | well, officialy, I'm sure.. | 07:18 |
| sheepbat | ahh, okay | 07:18 |
| luke-jr | quite frankly, I probably don't care to find out for sure | 07:18 |
| luke-jr | since I will likely never touch a N900 | 07:18 |
| luke-jr | :p | 07:18 |
| Aakash | You should | 07:18 |
| Aakash | So we can "collaborate" | 07:18 |
| Aakash | >.> | 07:18 |
| Aakash | HEY LEWK...I CAN HAZ BACON | 07:18 |
| Aakash | wtf is up with my comp | 07:19 |
| Aakash | so slowowww | 07:19 |
| luke-jr | Aakash: buy me one then | 07:19 |
| Aakash | haha of course....firefox-bin | 07:19 |
| luke-jr | I'm too pissed at Nokia to give them any money | 07:19 |
| Aakash | Why? | 07:20 |
| Aakash | Openness? | 07:20 |
| luke-jr | I've already invested far over $500 in time trying to get my N810 to work as they advertised | 07:20 |
| Aakash | heh | 07:20 |
| luke-jr | I have no reason to trust their claims about N900. | 07:21 |
| Aakash | True | 07:21 |
| luke-jr | and I don't feel like spending more time/$ investigating the git trees to verify them | 07:21 |
| Aakash | XXXX has confirmed you as a friend on facebook" | 07:21 |
| swc|666 | [21:17] <luke-jr> Aakash: not practical, and besides, Android sucks .. +1 | 07:21 |
| Aakash | Great, thanks facebook...i dont give a shit | 07:21 |
| Aakash | lol swc|666 | 07:22 |
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| luke-jr | swc|666: don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Maemo either :P | 07:22 |
| Aakash | Heh,in Android, the Google integration is what got me | 07:23 |
| swc|666 | luke-jr, i hear that, but @ least maemo is linux | 07:23 |
| Aakash | ..so is android | 07:23 |
| * luke-jr hates Google. | 07:23 | |
| luke-jr | swc|666: Maemo is not Linux | 07:23 |
| Aakash | luke-jr: you bing? | 07:23 |
| Aakash | >.< | 07:23 |
| Aakash | Linux is linux | 07:23 |
| luke-jr | Maemo is a distribution built upon a fork of Linux | 07:23 |
| Aakash | :0 | 07:23 |
| luke-jr | or at least Maemo4 was | 07:23 |
| swc|666 | helluvalot more linux than android is | 07:23 |
| luke-jr | supposedly Maemo5 is better and might actually run Linux someday | 07:23 |
| luke-jr | hmm | 07:24 |
| luke-jr | I really should call Nokia Care, complain about the not-as-advertised stuff, and see if they'll give me a refund <.< | 07:24 |
| Aakash | LOL | 07:24 |
| Aakash | I really should | 07:25 |
| Aakash | I could probably still get one | 07:25 |
| luke-jr | Aakash: what about your N900 isn't as advertised, if you don't mind me asking? :p | 07:25 |
| Aakash | lemme think a bit | 07:25 |
| luke-jr | IIRC, they admit it's still incomplete on the software side, so can't really complain it doesn't run mainline Linux yet | 07:25 |
| Aakash | LOL if you look at the features on the N900 page | 07:26 |
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| Aakash | they're basic features | 07:26 |
| Aakash | well, ones that literally *have* to be in it | 07:27 |
| aziwoqpd | does it at least have pull IM/email | 07:27 |
| aziwoqpd | or is it nokia messaging only | 07:27 |
| aziwoqpd | still | 07:27 |
| luke-jr | Aakash: link? | 07:27 |
| Aakash | http://maemo.nokia.com/features/ | 07:28 |
| pupnik | maybe falcons eye offers some hints on how to throw away the ui for tome, angband, zangband | 07:28 |
| Aakash | The ones listed on here | 07:28 |
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| Aakash | at the bottom | 07:28 |
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| Aakash | aziwoqpd: i use IMAP with Gmail right now | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | Aakash: so true | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | Aakash: most of the false advertising is on blogs IIRC | 07:28 |
| Aakash | yeah | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | and the crap they feed the userbase directly | 07:28 |
| Aakash | :( | 07:29 |
| aziwoqpd | Aakash: is it like a phone in that it can fetch/pull email, or more like a tablet that only wakes up when you hit a button | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | if the fanboys are around, I'll get attacked for pointing out that they're not open source, or that Linux doesn't REALLY run on them | 07:29 |
| Aakash | aziwoqpd: what? the n900? | 07:29 |
| aziwoqpd | yeah | 07:29 |
| zerojay | Ah, more luke-jr BS. Glad to see some things never change around here. | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | Aakash: observe zerojay :) | 07:30 |
| Aakash | aziwoqpd: it fetches email..? | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | aziwoqpd: email != phone | 07:30 |
| Aakash | yeah... | 07:30 |
| pupnik | what we need is remote control for when n900 is hooked up to pc: zeemote/wiimote controlling x cursor | 07:30 |
| zerojay | luke-jr: Only in your mind, perhaps. | 07:30 |
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| pupnik | what we need is remote control for when n900 is hooked up to TV: zeemote/wiimote controlling x cursor | 07:30 |
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| pupnik | i havent gotten an x pointer with the old n8x0 tricks yet. any idea how to activate it? | 07:32 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: my mind, being the only mind here right now that has actually looked at the code state of Linux N8x0 support? | 07:33 |
| luke-jr | sure, then only in my mind, since you're too ignorant to research your assertions | 07:33 |
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| Aakash | hm | 07:34 |
| jebba | details on mirror server setup fwiw http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Espejo | 07:34 |
| zerojay | luke-jr: Right, whatever you say. | 07:35 |
| zerojay | luke-jr: Keep on trollin'. | 07:35 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: truth is only 'trolling' to happily ignorant fanboys | 07:35 |
| pupnik | zerojay: is browser not copying text bug reported? | 07:35 |
| zerojay | luke-jr: You don't need to be a fanboy to know that all you ever do here is bitch, moan, complain and make shit up to bitch, moan and complain about. | 07:36 |
| pupnik | hilight text: hit "copy" switch to term, hit paste: old buffer pasted | 07:36 |
| zerojay | pupnik: No idea. My N900 has been dead for over a month already. | 07:36 |
| pupnik | it is necessary to use ignore | 07:36 |
| pupnik | ow. ow. | 07:36 |
| pupnik | why man | 07:37 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: you do have to be a fanboy to think I make any of it up | 07:37 |
| zerojay | And still no response from Nokia/Quim. | 07:37 |
| pupnik | im not sure what their policy is on dev/summit units | 07:37 |
| jebba | zerojay: you forgot he spreads misinfo too. | 07:37 |
| luke-jr | jebba: nope | 07:38 |
| zerojay | jebba: Yeah, but that's already far beyond arguing over. | 07:38 |
| luke-jr | jebba: list a single misinfo I have spread | 07:38 |
| zerojay | pupnik: I don't know. If they say "look, we're in sales, we won't be exchanging it even though it's our own hardware fault", fine... I could at least understand where they are coming from, but I don't enjoy being completely ignored. | 07:39 |
| luke-jr | exactly. nothing. | 07:40 |
| zerojay | pupnik: The more I feel like I'm being ignored, the less inclined I feel to participate and stick around. | 07:40 |
| pupnik | right | 07:40 |
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| pupnik | but big companies have these right-hand/left-hand issues, always... | 07:41 |
| iMuse|Bday | Is Maemo the iPhone 4G OS? | 07:41 |
| luke-jr | no | 07:41 |
| pupnik | no | 07:41 |
| iMuse|Bday | Cuz I never heard of it. | 07:41 |
| zerojay | pupnik: Yeah, there's always stuff like that which happens... but Quim's supposed to be the man in the middle of both hands, so... :) | 07:41 |
| pupnik | lmgtfy.com iMuse|Bday | 07:41 |
| luke-jr | iMuse|Bday: it's a closed OS with a Linux-based kernel used by Nokia Internet Tablets | 07:41 |
| zerojay | And there's jebba's example right there. | 07:42 |
| goodwill | does any one know where the source code repo is for onversations-inbox-widget? | 07:42 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: that is fact. | 07:42 |
| iMuse|Bday | CLOSED OS | 07:42 |
| iMuse|Bday | no wai | 07:42 |
| iMuse|Bday | That's bad. | 07:42 |
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| luke-jr | iMuse|Bday: yes, but there is no open alternative, so ... | 07:42 |
| ifreq | lol | 07:43 |
| ifreq | quite troll id say | 07:43 |
| luke-jr | does he think iPhone is open or something? | 07:43 |
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| Veggen | well. to be fair, it's a lot less closed than the OS for iPhone ;) | 07:45 |
| luke-jr | Veggen: sure, but so is Windows | 07:45 |
| luke-jr | and unlike Microsoft, Nokia likes to spread disinformation advertising their products as open | 07:46 |
| luke-jr | so it actually needs clarification | 07:46 |
| zerojay | I think that even if Nokia did put out a 100% open OS (as you interpret it), you would still be bitching and complaining about something... or just plain making shit up still. | 07:47 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: I'm not making anything up. | 07:47 |
| luke-jr | I might complain, but not about that. :P | 07:48 |
| luke-jr | and if it were 100% open, I could actually *fix* the problems | 07:48 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: noone is forcing you to use it | 07:48 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: Nokia tricked me into spending money on it | 07:48 |
| * [Tycho] is complaining about nokia | 07:48 | |
| goodwill | luke-jr: return the phone | 07:48 |
| luke-jr | and they are forcing me to use it by preventing me from using something else | 07:48 |
| jebba | zerojay: what example? huh. not quite folllowing all this | 07:48 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: how did they trick you? | 07:48 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: by advertising it as open and Linux-supported | 07:48 |
| luke-jr | neither of which are true | 07:48 |
| luke-jr | nor will ever be for N810 | 07:49 |
| zerojay | Yes, we're all completely delusional here. | 07:49 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: open means different thing ... just as free does | 07:49 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: there is bsd-free and gpl-free | 07:49 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: it's neither open nor free | 07:49 |
| Aakash | truth. | 07:49 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: well did you do your research before you bought? | 07:49 |
| pupnik | YHBT goodwill | 07:49 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: I *thought* I did. | 07:49 |
| Aakash | Same here. | 07:50 |
| luke-jr | apparently I need to browse the git trees first | 07:50 |
| Aakash | Ha-ha | 07:50 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: when I did my research, it became clear from talk.maemo.org pretty quickly there are closed source parts to it | 07:50 |
| goodwill | like drivers | 07:50 |
| luke-jr | talk.maemo.org didn't exist when I purchased. | 07:51 |
| luke-jr | there was InternetTabletTalk that had a screwed up theme | 07:51 |
| luke-jr | and was a pain to read | 07:51 |
| esaym153 | whoa luke-jr, haven't seen you in awhile | 07:51 |
| esaym153 | I thought you were dead | 07:51 |
| luke-jr | esaym153: ... | 07:51 |
| Aakash | rofl | 07:51 |
| esaym153 | where you been? | 07:51 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: well ... yes I agree they shoudl have been more clear ... but I think there is a risk in everything | 07:51 |
| luke-jr | esaym153: you're the one who hasn't been around. :p | 07:51 |
| Aakash | there shouldnt be | 07:52 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: I have an openmoko ... and I was takign a risk that they woudl fold ... and they did | 07:52 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: blatent false advertising is not justified by such | 07:52 |
| Aakash | Yeah dude | 07:52 |
| Aakash | I agree with luke-jr on this. | 07:52 |
| zerojay | lol | 07:52 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: also, when I so much as *mention* it's not open and Linux doesn't support it, I get flamed by all the fanboys here | 07:52 |
| zerojay | This is so completely retarded. | 07:52 |
| esaym153 | luke-jr: I am saddened on the close source parts of the nokia | 07:53 |
| Aakash | zerojay: welcome to the internets! | 07:53 |
| pupnik | i dealt with FIC for a number of years in the 90s | 07:53 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: yes, but now OpenMoko works, despite the company folding | 07:53 |
| luke-jr | because it was open | 07:53 |
| ifreq | esaym153: how do the closed drivers affect your life? | 07:53 |
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| Aakash | they make him cry when he tries to sleep | 07:53 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: openmoko software had a lot of issues when released ... | 07:53 |
| Aakash | keep him up a night | 07:53 |
| luke-jr | ifreq: even the open-but-need-porting drivers affect my life significantly | 07:53 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: when released, sure, but that was disclosed, no? | 07:54 |
| ifreq | yeah seems so. too bad man. | 07:54 |
| ifreq | bbl work calls -> | 07:54 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: and the first openmoko had closed source drivers for the gps ... because the hardware vendors restrict it | 07:54 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: there is NO 3G chip right now with open source driver support | 07:54 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: I'm aware. So do all NITs. | 07:54 |
| jebba | the "can't charge the battery" without maemo part *really* sucks. | 07:54 |
| jebba | thats total BS about battery... | 07:55 |
| pupnik | jebba it does.. external charger for any li-ion batt is worth it | 07:55 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: N900's supposedly has it open spec enough that it will work open soon | 07:55 |
| esaym153 | ifreq: My only dislike is the closed source alarm clock, | 07:55 |
| luke-jr | or is that more false advertising? | 07:55 |
| Aakash | ^^^ | 07:55 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: it is open if you use the API | 07:55 |
| pupnik | now i charge all batts on the station and am content | 07:55 |
| zerojay | There's some parts that are closed and yes, it's not the best of situations, but claiming it's all false advertising is completely boneheaded. | 07:55 |
| esaym153 | ifreq: I only use it for some custom apps of my and as an alarmclock so... | 07:55 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: you have access to all functionality | 07:55 |
| luke-jr | jebba: citation needed, though it's true you can't charge the battery w/o Maemo's blob | 07:55 |
| jebba | pupnik: external charger? are you saying that's comparable? ... I mean, i shouldnt have to yank the battery to charge. THat said i will get an external charger and more batteries at some point too... | 07:56 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: that's "unlocked" at best, not open | 07:56 |
| jebba | "you can't charge the battery w/o Maemo's blo" that's exactly what i'm talking about | 07:56 |
| luke-jr | jebba: that's 100% true | 07:56 |
| pupnik | yep it is just too nice to have charged spares around | 07:56 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: I thought unlocked mainly meant it was not tied to carrier | 07:56 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: hence 'at best' | 07:57 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: an extensive API is in no way open | 07:57 |
| zerojay | goodwill: That is what unlocked means. | 07:57 |
| pupnik | locked n900s also have locked kernels | 07:57 |
| tigert | cpscotti: thanks for the hacking =) | 07:57 |
| luke-jr | and no API can ever consider ALL possible scenarios | 07:57 |
| pupnik | if provider insists | 07:57 |
| Aakash | okay im out | 07:58 |
| Aakash | peace guys | 07:58 |
| pupnik | going into debt for consumer electronics. wtg usa | 07:58 |
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| luke-jr | Aakash: don't leave me with the fanboys :( | 07:58 |
| luke-jr | darn, too late :( | 07:58 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: I agree with you ... I just think that nXXX series is a good step forward. between Mer and FSO we are gettign there | 07:58 |
| v2px_ | jebba: i have a little problem with your new (-jebba6) kernel :S i installed it for testing usb tethering and with usb0 enabled the device reboots randomly | 07:59 |
| luke-jr | goodwill: in the meantime, I'm stuck having bought a useless device and pissed at Nokia too much to dare spending any more | 07:59 |
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| goodwill | luke-jr: I am sorry that it did not work out for you | 07:59 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: I do think it will get better | 07:59 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: last 6-7 years were fantastic for linux hardware support | 08:00 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: I am sure you remember time when you could not get simple audio support on linux | 08:01 |
| luke-jr | actually, no, audio always worked fine for me | 08:01 |
| luke-jr | the only hardware issue I had was mobo RAID | 08:01 |
| zerojay | Be glad. Stuff like OSS and esd were hell. | 08:01 |
| luke-jr | OSS worked for me. esd is GNOME so I wouldn't touch it | 08:01 |
| goodwill | luke-jr: hee heee .. then it just me then .. | 08:01 |
| arachnist | hmm | 08:02 |
| arachnist | i remember the begginings of nvidia graphics support for linux | 08:02 |
| goodwill | and its still closed | 08:02 |
| goodwill | though noveau is not bad | 08:03 |
| v2px_ | but it works like a charm | 08:03 |
| arachnist | it may be closed, but at least it works | 08:03 |
| goodwill | yeah ... nvidia has consistently made sure it works well | 08:03 |
| goodwill | got to give them props | 08:03 |
| zerojay | has nouveau reached a usable state yet? | 08:03 |
| goodwill | zerojay: last couple of release really got good things in | 08:04 |
| arachnist | zerojay: depends on what you consider usable | 08:04 |
| go1dfish | yeah I generally don't complain about something being closed until it prevents me from doing something I want to do | 08:04 |
| go1dfish | seems stable, so not nearly as agrivating as ATI's closed linux drivers | 08:04 |
| zerojay | Performance at least approaching the closed source driver. | 08:04 |
| arachnist | zerojay: not there yet | 08:04 |
| arachnist | go1dfish: ati drivers nowadays also are not that bad | 08:05 |
| zerojay | Yeah, I didn't think it would be yet, but I haven't checked up on it in a while. | 08:05 |
| luke-jr | ATi works fine with open drivers | 08:05 |
| arachnist | go1dfish: both opensource and closed ones | 08:05 |
| pupnik | please preface comments to luke-jr with "luke-jr:" | 08:05 |
| go1dfish | yeah I am speaking of the 9800 pro days heh | 08:05 |
| arachnist | go1dfish: i had 9800se modded to pro :> | 08:06 |
| go1dfish | but still is agrivating when you can't get open drivers or decent hardware docs | 08:06 |
| luke-jr | I migrated to X850 a year or two ago | 08:06 |
| luke-jr | works great | 08:06 |
| arachnist | and i had to sell it, because it didn't work at all | 08:06 |
| arachnist | (under linux) | 08:06 |
| go1dfish | even if someone does eventually manage to reverse engineer and build a decent replacement | 08:06 |
| zerojay | I knew a lot of people that had to get rid of their ATI cards because they wouldn't work at all a few years ago. | 08:06 |
| arachnist | now i have radeon hd5870 and it just works | 08:07 |
| jebba | v2px_: did -jebba5 reboot? Did you test tethering with that? what about stock? I'm about to fall over now, but email me lots of into about wtf is going on and i'll reply tomorrow (today...) moe@blagblagblag.org thx | 08:07 |
| arachnist | even with 2 screens attached | 08:07 |
| v2px_ | jebba: i didn't test it with the prev. version | 08:07 |
| v2px_ | jebba: will do if it helps :) | 08:07 |
| jebba | v2px_: well, try it with the stock kernel (tethering). I don't know of any changes i made that would affect that. | 08:08 |
| v2px_ | so NAT with stock kernel works now? | 08:08 |
| arachnist | speaking of networking | 08:09 |
| jebba | v2px_: i haven't heard of NAT working with stock kernel. I dont think it's possible. Its in -jebba6 though | 08:09 |
| arachnist | has anyone tried compiling ipv6 modules for the N900 kernel? | 08:09 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: I tend to do my research and buy only what is supported. | 08:09 |
| luke-jr | N810 was a goofup due to the misinformation. :/ | 08:09 |
| jebba | arachnist: i haven't but i'll add it to the list. If you have specific CONFIG_FOO=m let me know | 08:09 |
| luke-jr | and probably in part from my incorrect memories of my Zaurus | 08:09 |
| luke-jr | I realize now that it was originally far closed than when I last used it. | 08:10 |
| jebba | v2px_: I did enable USB_SERIAL=m, that isn't getting loaded though is it? | 08:10 |
| luke-jr | if I remembered that, I might have been a bit more suspicious of whether the current models were really open | 08:10 |
| jebba | i dont think that does anything anyway, i was just a hopin' | 08:10 |
| v2px_ | jebba: nope, not loaded | 08:11 |
| v2px_ | jebba: i upped usb0 a few minutes ago and its stable so far. seems like its only rebooting if i generate traffic over usb0 | 08:12 |
| jebba | hmm. Would be interesting to see if it does it with stock too, if you continue to see the issue. Probably has to do more with trackerd or the thumbnailer or someshit locking up the disk ;) | 08:12 |
| v2px_ | last time i tried reflashing the stock kernel my device wouldnt boot :/ | 08:13 |
| jebba | did you copy over the stock kernel modules? | 08:14 |
| v2px_ | i'm scared now. i don't want to reinstall all the apps :S | 08:14 |
| jebba | how'd you flash it? with kernel flasher or via flash-3.5 ? | 08:14 |
| v2px_ | yea, i followed yout guide :P | 08:14 |
| v2px_ | your* | 08:14 |
| jebba | ya, but there's still two ways to do it. | 08:14 |
| jebba | heh | 08:14 |
| v2px_ | with flash(er?)-3.5 | 08:14 |
| jebba | ya, did you remember to copy over the old modules? | 08:14 |
| v2px_ | yea i did that b4 | 08:15 |
| jebba | cp -a /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1.orig /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1 like htat ,) | 08:15 |
| jebba | cuz installing new kernel blows out old modules, unfortunately, so yuou have to copy them before you install, then copy them back. THen if things go to hell, you can flasher-3.5 a zImage. But you shouldn't have to flasher-3.5 the zimage, just as a last resort. | 08:16 |
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| jebba | I've been dpkg -i *deb fine and the last ones I did I even just apt-get upgraded to the latest kernel and it worked fine. | 08:16 |
| jebba | anyway, i'm outta here for a bit, i'll check back in one last time before sleep | 08:16 |
| v2px_ | so how do i reinstall the stock kernel without flashing the zimage? | 08:17 |
| v2px_ | k tyt :) | 08:17 |
| jebba | ah | 08:18 |
| arachnist | i'm a little surprised that n900 isn't as hackable as my other linux-running arm toy | 08:18 |
| jebba | download it, dpkg -i kernel-modules*deb kernel-2*.deb, then dpkg -i kernel-flash*deb | 08:18 |
| jebba | same as with mine | 08:19 |
| arachnist | (which has a 1.2GHz cpu, 512MB ram, 512MB flash and loads of i/o ports) | 08:19 |
| v2px_ | arachnist: does it fit in your pocket? | 08:20 |
| v2px_ | jebba: oh ok thanks. :) | 08:20 |
| arachnist | v2px_: i think i have a pair of pants where it would | 08:21 |
| arachnist | though it wouldn't be very comfortable | 08:21 |
| goodwill | arachnist: chumby? | 08:22 |
| arachnist | nope | 08:22 |
| arachnist | goodwill: openrd-client | 08:22 |
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| bigbrovar | Hi guys am about to reinstall my N900 by flashing it, I just want to know if the connect in the 32gb memory would always be formated, do I need to back that up too ? | 08:26 |
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| bizzle1 | does anyone know the correct config_cmdline to use when compiling the kernel to recognize and set the root as the external mmc? | 08:27 |
| go1dfish | has there been any indication of whether nat will be possible for future official kernels? | 08:27 |
| go1dfish | i.e. has the lack of necessary symbols been filed as a bug? | 08:27 |
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| pupnik | bigbrovar: when i flash, the 32GB is not overwritten | 08:34 |
| bigbrovar | pupnik: thanks, which should mean my bookmarks and other apps user configs in /home/user (which I believe is mounted on the 32gb drive) should be safe | 08:36 |
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| pupnik | bigbrovar: desktop 'bookmarks' will be erased | 08:37 |
| pupnik | your bookmarks in browser will be preserved | 08:37 |
| pupnik | i was filling my desktop with bookmarked pages cause it looks so cool :) | 08:37 |
| lcuk | bigbrovar, take a backup first, it helps smooth everything back after a flash and restore by putting the obscure stuff back too, like repo selection apps and your desktops | 08:38 |
| bigbrovar | pupnik: thanks, what about optified apps AFAIK they install files on /opt which is also mounted on the 32gb drive.. no? | 08:39 |
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| pupnik | apps get cleared, as they must | 08:39 |
| pupnik | never tried restoring installed apps | 08:40 |
| bigbrovar | lcuk: I really want to start from scratch beside my bookmarks, I want nothing saved :p | 08:40 |
| go1dfish | bigbrovar: yeah me to, I'll be flashing my n900 to a completely clean state once I get PR1.1 | 08:41 |
| lcuk | fair enough, most people say that until 3 weeks later they curse something | 08:41 |
| go1dfish | now that I have a good idea of what apps I want installed and what I don't | 08:41 |
| lcuk | take a backup anyway, you dont have to restore it if you dont want | 08:41 |
| go1dfish | yeah def recommend backing up first regardless, I plan to backup mine | 08:41 |
| bigbrovar | thanks guys I will let you know how it went :) | 08:42 |
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| lcuk | hey tekojo \o | 08:43 |
| tekojo | morning lcuk | 08:43 |
| * lcuk needs coffee | 08:44 | |
| lcuk | have a good xmas tekojo ? | 08:44 |
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| * tekojo waits for someone else to come to the office before coffee | 08:44 | |
| v2px_ | hmm. is there an app to blog over a MovableType API? | 08:44 |
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| lcuk | lol tekojo first in after xmas! | 08:44 |
| tekojo | lcuk, yes quite relaxing | 08:44 |
| lcuk | not bad | 08:44 |
| v2px_ | or MetaWeblog? | 08:44 |
| tekojo | No, but almost first in today :-) | 08:45 |
| lcuk | v2px_, mastory deals with blogging from device | 08:45 |
| v2px_ | but it doesn't seem to support those APIs | 08:47 |
| v2px_ | i can choose between wordpress, blogger, livejournal and drupal... | 08:47 |
| lcuk | :( but thats in a way good, it shows he at least knows about different servers, perhaps the dev might add movabletype with some help | 08:48 |
| tekojo | MovableType is wordpress | 08:48 |
| tekojo | afaik | 08:48 |
| v2px_ | tekojo: i'll try that, thx :) | 08:48 |
| lcuk | v2px_, if not, check the bug reports for the app, if its anything like hermes there will be 50 reports for each provider | 08:49 |
| tekojo | Just look up the http, I think it wanted an exact match, not just blog name (or then it's been fixed) | 08:49 |
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| v2px_ | tekojo: doesnt work with "Wordpress" :/ | 08:52 |
| pupnik | heh, i had to ssh into N900 and use mplayer to locate device | 08:52 |
| tekojo | Strange, I remember blogging to it on an N810 with the precursor of MaStory | 08:52 |
| v2px_ | meh. the app adds "/xmlrpc.php to the url | 08:53 |
| v2px_ | +" tahts why it downt work | 08:54 |
| v2px_ | -typos | 08:54 |
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| v2px_ | the api i'm trying to use uses "/xml-rpc" | 08:55 |
| tekojo | Oh, that's not nice | 08:57 |
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| lcuk | v2px_, if its a trivial fix such as this, i heartily recommend starting the year with an enhancement request :D | 09:02 |
| v2px_ | heh. great idea | 09:03 |
| v2px_ | but my uptime is 24+h | 09:04 |
| v2px_ | i'm too lazy to do it right now | 09:04 |
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| lcuk | thats ok :) you will remember next time you want to blog | 09:04 |
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| v2px_ | sure will :P | 09:05 |
| lcuk | and you can make your post about how you helped improve maemo :) | 09:05 |
| lcuk | :p | 09:05 |
| RST38h | Heh, finally | 09:05 |
| lcuk | morning RST38h | 09:06 |
| RST38h | TSA starts body-searching people by their country of origin | 09:06 |
| RST38h | lcuk: moo | 09:06 |
| lcuk | scary aint it | 09:06 |
| RST38h | Not really. Predictable. | 09:06 |
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| * lcuk shakes head | 09:07 | |
| RST38h | They did total searches in the name of political correctness. Now they have got a choice between body-searching the whole flight or being politically incorrect. | 09:07 |
| lcuk | we are having full body xray | 09:08 |
| RST38h | And the political correctness finally cracked. | 09:08 |
| * lcuk cheers weakly | 09:08 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: Oh but TSA thinks it is not enough! They want pat-searches | 09:08 |
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| RST38h | So, if you happen to be a Yemeni woman, in that full muslim garb... Hehe | 09:09 |
| cehteh | hi RST38h .. did you found something out abut the xchat sleep problem yesterday? | 09:09 |
| lcuk | i hate having to take my belt off | 09:09 |
| RST38h | cehteh: Yeah, I seem to have fixed it, get new version from -Devel and delete your ~/.xchat2 | 09:09 |
| cehteh | cool ...maemo14? | 09:10 |
| RST38h | yes | 09:10 |
| cehteh | had to reflash earlier anyways ... grr | 09:10 |
| cehteh | and my charger broke .. | 09:10 |
| RST38h | There was a "mischellaneous xchat events" timer running at 500ms | 09:10 |
| cehteh | this device goes back | 09:10 |
| cehteh | wow 500ms is a long time | 09:11 |
| RST38h | I gave lagometer a separate 1sec timer and disabled it when lagometer is off | 09:11 |
| doc|home | the screwy thing is, the guy's family went to the embassy/consulate and warned them he was going to do something, but he was let on the flight anyway | 09:11 |
| RST38h | I switched DCC timeout checks from every second to every minute | 09:11 |
| RST38h | doc: As long as all the proper procedures were observed, none of the DHS managers will be harmed by this fact. | 09:11 |
| RST38h | doc: Us, on the other hand... Mhm | 09:12 |
| cehteh | good work | 09:12 |
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| RST38h | cehteh: But you absolutely have to disable the lagometer. Deleting .xchat2 dir will do it for you | 09:12 |
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| cehteh | ok | 09:14 |
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| user__ | lets see | 09:15 |
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| pupnik | http://wiki.gpodder.org/wiki/List_of_Configuration_Options /me's brain aspoldes | 09:20 |
| pupnik | did not have any idea how complex this was | 09:21 |
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| pupnik | i hate the web so much. you take an idea like "a list of articles/sound/video that gets updated" | 09:22 |
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| pupnik | and build a freaking jungle out of it | 09:22 |
| RST38h | what does web have to do with this? | 09:22 |
| pupnik | because 1/2 of the 'podcasts' i want to subscribe to don't do it in a gpodder compatible way | 09:23 |
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| RST38h | then why use gpodder? | 09:23 |
| pupnik | the alternative is bookmarking the website, which is ok | 09:24 |
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| pupnik | "gPodder can execute an arbitrary script after a download has finished." <<- that's very nice, thanks Tomas | 09:25 |
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| * RST38h can't understand the point of podcasts, frankly | 09:25 | |
| * RST38h also can't understand the point of YouTube though | 09:25 | |
| pupnik | there are some good sources of information in mp3 form that can be useful while doing other things | 09:26 |
| tigert | while commuting, for example | 09:26 |
| RST38h | Can't easily browse through it, takes a lot of space/bandwidth, usually narrated by geeks lacking any diction or coherency | 09:27 |
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| tigert | dont listen to geek podcasts :) | 09:28 |
| RST38h | naaah, text rules | 09:28 |
| tigert | npr cartalk is nice ecample | 09:28 |
| tigert | i like the show | 09:28 |
| pupnik | Foreign Policy News and Interviews: (the only worthwhile one) http://antiwar.com/radio/ | 09:28 |
| [Tycho] | Podcasts are evil and should be eliminated. | 09:28 |
| tigert | but i never remember when it airs | 09:28 |
| RST38h | NPR Car Talk is a proper radio show | 09:28 |
| tigert | so podcast works nicely | 09:28 |
| [Tycho] | Youtube was good. | 09:28 |
| * RST38h listens to it on ...well...NPR when in the US | 09:28 | |
| tigert | yeah | 09:29 |
| tigert | so its all in podcast | 09:29 |
| RST38h | tigert: Every Saturday, at 11:00 :) | 09:29 |
| tigert | i love it while sitting in trams | 09:29 |
| pupnik | Economics Lectures: (the only worthwhile ones) http://mises.org/media.xml | 09:29 |
| tigert | RST38h: i have kids | 09:29 |
| tigert | saturday 11 is "other things" :) | 09:29 |
| RST38h | tigert: And they do not like Car Talk? =) | 09:29 |
| RST38h | Ah | 09:29 |
| tigert | i have a hour a day during commute | 09:30 |
| pupnik | http://feeds2.feedburner.com/WallStreetUnspunWithPeterSchiff another decent weekly economics podcast | 09:30 |
| RST38h | But, again, it is no podcast, more like timeshifting | 09:30 |
| tigert | yes | 09:30 |
| tigert | podcasting is like timeshifted radio that is easy to air without media companies | 09:30 |
| tigert | theres trash and good stuff | 09:30 |
| tigert | depends on the subject | 09:30 |
| tigert | i also like an aviation related one called "Uncontrolled Airspace" | 09:31 |
| tigert | some US pilot geezers discuss shit | 09:31 |
| tigert | its nice too | 09:31 |
| tigert | if you like the subject | 09:31 |
| pupnik | flying is fun | 09:32 |
| pupnik | good exercise in discipline too | 09:32 |
| tigert | there is little point in listening to something you read on the web anyway (geek podcasts) unless the author adds something useful | 09:32 |
| tigert | pupnik: yeah | 09:32 |
| pupnik | never heard a geek podcast worth listening to except that Mer one | 09:33 |
| tigert | pupnik: you do that too? | 09:33 |
| pupnik | i gave it up | 09:33 |
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| pupnik | it's serious business, you know. | 09:33 |
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| tigert | it is, you can die | 09:34 |
| tigert | if you are not serious with it | 09:34 |
| tigert | fun too thoughä | 09:34 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: The Mer one we can get directly from Sts here =) | 09:34 |
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| cehteh | eh | 09:34 |
| cehteh | RST38h: seems the 'channel list' is now fixed on the right side .. moment tryning | 09:35 |
| RST38h | tigert: You should go to Alaska, that place got airfields instead of parking lots | 09:35 |
| RST38h | cehteh: ??? | 09:35 |
| RST38h | cehteh: should be at the bottom | 09:35 |
| cehteh | yes started at the bottom | 09:36 |
| cehteh | i configured to upper left but it switched to upper right | 09:36 |
| tigert | RST38h: yeah :) | 09:36 |
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| RST38h | cehteh: I know why | 09:37 |
| RST38h | cehteh: the user list is at the left. Move it to the right, move channel list to the left. See what happens | 09:37 |
| tigert | is Stskeeps the british mer guy? | 09:37 |
| RST38h | tigert: Danish | 09:37 |
| lcuk | no, hes the great dane afail | 09:37 |
| tigert | ok | 09:37 |
| lcuk | david lbt is the british guy | 09:37 |
| RST38h | Hey Sts is Polish now :) | 09:37 |
| lcuk | afaik | 09:37 |
| tigert | I met one mer guy in barcelona | 09:38 |
| lcuk | yeah lol | 09:38 |
| * RST38h cackles evilly | 09:38 | |
| pupnik | the fun is in great part hanging out with pilots, tigert - kind of like #maemo - commonalities | 09:38 |
| tigert | he was fun talking with | 09:38 |
| lcuk | tigert, was lbt | 09:38 |
| cehteh | no user list at all .. lemme check | 09:38 |
| tigert | pupnik: yeah | 09:38 |
| tigert | lcuk: ok | 09:38 |
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| pupnik | ever do any soaring tigert ? | 09:38 |
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| pupnik | really recommend it | 09:39 |
| tigert | not yet | 09:39 |
| cehteh | never seen that you can configure the side of the user list | 09:39 |
| tigert | did an intro soaring flight years ago | 09:39 |
| tigert | should do it to learn to fly finaly ;) | 09:39 |
| tigert | s/finaly/finally/ | 09:40 |
| infobot | tigert meant: should do it to learn to fly finally ;) | 09:40 |
| pupnik | well same, just an intro flight, but it was beautiful without the buzz of an engine | 09:40 |
| tigert | yeah | 09:40 |
| tigert | pupnik: http://irene.vanderzwan.org/Site_IreneFilms/Welcome.html | 09:40 |
| ceh900 | ok looks useable now | 09:40 |
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| RST38h | cehteh: sos did it go to the left? | 09:41 |
| cehteh | yes, got it all configured again :) | 09:41 |
| RST38h | ok | 09:41 |
| tigert | see "wavecamp" > second from top ("Elevator") | 09:41 |
| cehteh | C3 | 82.7% | 164.3ms | 250 MHz | 96.0% | | 09:42 |
| cehteh | C4 | 7.9% | 591.1ms | | 09:42 |
| cehteh | better, but still | 09:42 |
| RST38h | Should spend ~35% of time in C4, at least when you lock the device | 09:42 |
| RST38h | 1) Lock device 2) Wait 30 seconds 3) Run powertop via ssh | 09:42 |
| cehteh | doing so | 09:42 |
| cehteh | well device was unlocked | 09:43 |
| cehteh | btw you may add a fullscreen/non-compositing mode dunno if that improves much, but maybe worth a try | 09:44 |
| cehteh | Ping reply from ceh900 : 5.96 second(s) .. wlan powersaving sux | 09:44 |
| RST38h | it is added | 09:44 |
| RST38h | Ctrl+Enter | 09:44 |
| cehteh | ah nice | 09:45 |
| * cehteh thinks he needs a decent accesspoint | 09:45 | |
| * RST38h feels like he has forced Ctrl+Enter on the community now =) | 09:45 | |
| cehteh | C3 | 38.3% | 188.7ms | 250 MHz | 100.0% | | 09:45 |
| cehteh | C4 | 60.5% | 789.4ms | | 09:45 |
| cehteh | ok thats acceptable | 09:45 |
| cehteh | well done! | 09:45 |
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| RST38h | nickname completion is Shift+Enter BTW | 09:46 |
| * Stskeeps yawns and wakes up | 09:46 | |
| cehteh | arrgs :) i maped ESC to to shift+enter for emacs | 09:47 |
| cehteh | and TAB is shift+space | 09:47 |
| cehteh | imo we should make some community proposal/guidelines for such common keys | 09:47 |
| * RST38h prefers to force 'em de facto =) | 09:48 | |
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| RST38h | BTW TAB will also complete nickname, so no big deal | 09:48 |
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| cehteh | yes and you hardly need esc on irc | 09:49 |
| pupnik | want irssi tab completion for words appearing onscreen also | 09:49 |
| pupnik | not just nicks | 09:49 |
| RST38h | ah fuck irssi | 09:49 |
| ceh900 | RST38h, works | 09:49 |
| RST38h | the package in extras does not even start when you click on the icon (thry forgot -e after xterm) | 09:49 |
| pupnik | on n900 xchat has advantages | 09:50 |
| ceh900 | next make the scrollbar biggier, finger friendly or hildonize it | 09:50 |
| ceh900 | and tell me how for emacs | 09:51 |
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| pupnik | another feed that doesn't work with gpodder: "Financial Sense Online" http://feeds.feedburner.com/fso?format=xml | 09:54 |
| pupnik | i suspect some of these sites just don't want to serve up the bandwidth without advertising (fair enough, but please don't call it a 'feed') | 09:55 |
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| ceh900 | need speech to text for xchat :] | 09:55 |
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| phreck | anyone using the newest build of xchat in the devel repo? | 09:56 |
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| pupnik | ok here's a good one (economics) that works with gpodder also http://www.howestreet.com/goldradio/grpodcast.php | 09:57 |
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| phreck | anyone using the newest build of xchat in the devel repo? | 10:03 |
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| L0cutus | re | 10:12 |
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| cehteh | phreck: yes .. we talked before bout it | 10:16 |
| cehteh | works great, but delete your .xchat2 and reconfigure | 10:16 |
| * cehteh noticed yesterday that it keeps the cpu busy, thats fixed now | 10:17 | |
| phreck | yea | 10:17 |
| phreck | ive had alot more dropped connections since todays update | 10:17 |
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| pupnik | btw spending time finding the optimal channel for N900 fm transmitter pays off nicely. | 10:20 |
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| * tigert does a +1 for irssi, never understood gui irc | 10:20 | |
| tigert | but the new xchat looks nice for sure | 10:21 |
| phreck | they fixed the config. its nice | 10:21 |
| phreck | always been usable, more convenient now | 10:22 |
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| Muhvi | Does anyone know where the mfe settings are (in file format). I'm testing activesync with lotus domino server and i'm unable to get it to work. For domino traveler service to work, you have to put server name in format servername.com/servlet/traveler but nokias software doesn't allow /servlet/traveler to server field | 10:24 |
| Muhvi | i was wondering if i edited the file manually, it might work | 10:24 |
| Muhvi | might it work | 10:24 |
| Muhvi | talking about N900 of course | 10:24 |
| ruskie | maybe it's a gconf setting | 10:28 |
| cehteh | tigert: my xchat is almost terminal like configured, but buttons for channel switching are convinient | 10:28 |
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| Muhvi | ruskie, have to look on that | 10:32 |
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| tigert | cehteh: yea. i have terminal buttons for that | 10:34 |
| tigert | cehteh: the real DEALBREAKER (heh) is disconnects | 10:34 |
| tigert | so screen keeps my irssi running and i just attach it to whatever computer i happen to use | 10:35 |
| tigert | so it also avoids cluttering others sessions with quit/joins all the time | 10:36 |
| ceh900 | using a bouncer and soon openvpn against that | 10:36 |
| tigert | sure, but its a lot less hassle | 10:36 |
| tigert | everything has ssh already | 10:36 |
| cehteh | well irc is not *that* essential | 10:37 |
| kuriiri | yes it is :) | 10:37 |
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| tigert | :) | 10:37 |
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| pupnik | anybody have libopenal1? | 10:43 |
| pupnik | trying ubuntu now/ sid is broken | 10:44 |
| pupnik | ubuntu fixes patch bug | 10:45 |
| pupnik | -- Check for working C compiler: /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc | 10:45 |
| pupnik | qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - core dumped | 10:45 |
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| pupnik | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/c/cmake/ | 10:50 |
| pupnik | http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/cmake_broken_on_freemantle/ | 10:50 |
| RST38h | what is cmake and what does it do that make does not? | 10:51 |
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| hrw | morning | 10:56 |
| wiretapped | what is the quickest way to get my gps coordinates, to paste into google local? | 10:57 |
| wiretapped | maps.google.com/m i mean | 10:57 |
| * wiretapped wonders why the n900 doesnt support the html5 geoloction stuff | 10:58 | |
| wiretapped | hrw: good morning | 10:59 |
| pwnguin | wiretapped: it's there | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | wiretapped: maemo-geolocation package | 10:59 |
| pwnguin | fennec supports it | 10:59 |
| ShadowJK | make, gmake, qmake, xmkmf, smake, cmake... one of those things people reinvent constantly | 10:59 |
| pwnguin | and there's a package for microB | 10:59 |
| tybollt | ShadowJK: boo, you | 11:00 |
| tybollt | ShadowJK: boo, you forgot about imake ;) | 11:00 |
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| pwnguin | and rake | 11:00 |
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| RST38h | wiretapped: Answer: N900 supports geolocation stuff now (download plugin from extras) | 11:00 |
| wiretapped | sweet! installing now | 11:01 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: That is why the moment your employee starts writing his own build system, you are supposed to fire him, quickly. | 11:01 |
| pwnguin | so is there actually going to be a firmware fix for n900? | 11:01 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: It is good for the society, too | 11:02 |
| johnx | RST38h, that's the problem with open source | 11:02 |
| RST38h | pwnguin: Why should there be a firmware fix? | 11:02 |
| RST38h | johnx: That's the problem with idiots who cannot learn how to use make. | 11:02 |
| pwnguin | RST38h: i got the impression some things were only fixable that way, like the video chat camera | 11:02 |
| cehteh | RST38h: well .. i may do one someday :P | 11:03 |
| cehteh | make has some shortcomings :) | 11:03 |
| tybollt | 'some'? :) | 11:03 |
| RST38h | cehteh: The moment you start doing it, shoot yourself, quickly | 11:03 |
| pwnguin | its just like NES emulators | 11:03 |
| pwnguin | there's a billion *NES | 11:03 |
| RST38h | cehteh: Because in practice, gmake is sufficient. | 11:03 |
| hrw | does someone uses fremantle_armel in sdk with full hildon session running? | 11:03 |
| wiretapped | ok i installed maemo-geolocation and said killall browser browserd | 11:04 |
| cehteh | RST38h: depends | 11:04 |
| wiretapped | google local still doesnt know where i am | 11:04 |
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| RST38h | cehteh: does not, it is just sufficient, period. | 11:04 |
| hrw | and qmake is generating Makefile for gnu make... | 11:04 |
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| pwnguin | i didnt know google local supported geolocation | 11:04 |
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| RST38h | so does automake, may it be damned | 11:04 |
| wiretapped | pwnguin: i just assumed they would | 11:04 |
| hrw | RST38h: autotools are ARG$%@@$ | 11:04 |
| wiretapped | :( | 11:04 |
| pwnguin | wiretapped: well theres your problem | 11:04 |
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| cehteh | we using scons and automake in parallel delaying any discussion about :) .. so far there is no clear winner | 11:05 |
| hrw | RST38h: but I prefer to hack autotooled projects instead of fighting with crapbox | 11:05 |
| cehteh | both have their rough ends | 11:05 |
| RST38h | hrw: Autotools are solving an artifical problem by creating a bunch of real problems | 11:05 |
| pwnguin | is there a changelog server for extras? | 11:05 |
| pupnik | for most things i see, a simple Makefile would be SO MUCH easier to deal with. | 11:05 |
| hrw | RST38h: sure, but at least helps for cross-compiles | 11:05 |
| RST38h | hrw: Not really | 11:05 |
| ShadowJK | cmake also seems to generate makefile for gmake | 11:05 |
| ShadowJK | or make | 11:06 |
| hrw | ~curse fremantle_armel target in maemo5 sdk for not working | 11:06 |
| RST38h | hrw: I cross compile with normal makefiles, no problems | 11:06 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, fremantle_armel target in maemo5 sdk for not working ! | 11:06 |
| cehteh | RST38h: well there are some things which make can not do, such as building the dependency tree dynamically as its going or track non-file metadata (options, env vars) | 11:06 |
| hrw | RST38h: how you check size of int? | 11:06 |
| hrw | for example | 11:06 |
| RST38h | cehteh: True, but there is an utility for that | 11:06 |
| cehteh | huh at least the build dependencies dynamicall is impossible | 11:07 |
| RST38h | cehteh: And as to non-file metadata, I explicitely DO NOT WANT make to track that. | 11:07 |
| ShadowJK | I love how autotools checks sizeof char | 11:07 |
| wiretapped | hmm http://maxheapsize.com/staticm5geolocationdemo.html asks if i want to share my location, but then says location unknown | 11:07 |
| RST38h | hrw: typedef int U32; | 11:07 |
| RST38h | hrw: You are forgetting that ints are 32bit pretty much everywhere nowadays | 11:07 |
| pwnguin | wiretapped: have you ever gotten a fix? | 11:07 |
| hrw | RST38h: was exampole | 11:08 |
| cehteh | uhm | 11:08 |
| ShadowJK | C99 has nice collection of types now :) | 11:08 |
| RST38h | hrw: But it is a good example: it demonstrates that the "problem" autotools were solving is no longer a problem | 11:08 |
| RST38h | hrw: Instead, autotools are. | 11:08 |
| cehteh | yeah c99 or posix yes .. but typedef int u32 is really the reciepe for fail | 11:09 |
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| cehteh | not that autotools make things much easier | 11:09 |
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| RST38h | The world pretty much standardized on gcc/msc by now, as well as a really small set of cpu architectures which are all using the same basic datatypes | 11:09 |
| RST38h | cehteh: fail where? | 11:09 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:09 |
| cehteh | well signedness of 'char' is another thing | 11:10 |
| hrw | RST38h: samba_cv_HAVE_WORKING_AF_LOCAL is flag from autotools which differ on arm/mips/powerpc glibc/uclibc combos | 11:10 |
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| cehteh | that differs widely | 11:10 |
| RST38h | cehteh: typedef unsigned char byte; | 11:10 |
| RST38h | cehteh: isn't it common sense? | 11:10 |
| cehteh | you can only typedef your own types .. but system interfaces still use 'char' | 11:10 |
| RST38h | cehteh: and what is the problem with that? | 11:10 |
| wiretapped | pwnguin: yeah | 11:10 |
| wiretapped | says coarse accuracy | 11:11 |
| RST38h | hrw: Well, that is something Samba devs have to resolve | 11:11 |
| johnx | RST38h, your "solution" doesn't solve anything because: (x) it requires everyone to "do the right thing" | 11:11 |
| cehteh | char foo = ~0; to invert all bits for example .. doesnt work anywhere (thinking baout the n900 sdk which barfed on me) | 11:11 |
| RST38h | johnx: Well, if they write bad code, why should it work? | 11:12 |
| RST38h | cehteh: char foo = 0xff; | 11:12 |
| RST38h | works everywhere | 11:12 |
| wiretapped | isnt there an easy way to get get my coords so i can paste them into google? | 11:12 |
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| Stskeeps | morning danielwilms, and happy new years :) | 11:17 |
| lcuk | morning danielwilms welcome back :D | 11:17 |
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| danielwilms | hey :) morning and happy new year everybody ;) | 11:18 |
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| pupnik | go1dfish: go to town on gemrb :D | 11:20 |
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| hrw | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/01/04/are-maemo5-developer-tools-obsolete/ | 11:26 |
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| RST38h | hrw: how about sb2? | 11:28 |
| go1dfish | pupnik: is it in the repos now? | 11:28 |
| hrw | RST38h: does not change situation with debhelper for example | 11:29 |
| go1dfish | im getting very worried about the microusb female connector on the n900 | 11:29 |
| hrw | RST38h: autobuilder uses sbox1 | 11:29 |
| go1dfish | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39072 | 11:29 |
| RST38h | hm | 11:30 |
| pupnik | repos? gemrb? haahahaa | 11:30 |
| hrw | RST38h: so if I want to have package available for users in easy way I have to stick with that crap | 11:30 |
| go1dfish | new build? | 11:30 |
| hrw | RST38h: if I want to use normal tools then I have to create own repo | 11:31 |
| go1dfish | i installed the debs posted a couple weeks back | 11:31 |
| pupnik | i'd like to be able to build it also. still no luck | 11:31 |
| RST38h | hrw: I do think that creating a separate community repo is the way to go right now | 11:31 |
| go1dfish | havent been able to play much lately | 11:31 |
| go1dfish | visiting family | 11:31 |
| RST38h | hrw: The "official" package promotion procedure got so convoluted and broken that it is barely usable | 11:31 |
| pupnik | well how about a little hack for stylus-motion minimum-travel | 11:31 |
| go1dfish | much of my family has been brainwashed to the effect of d&d=demonic | 11:32 |
| pupnik | depends on the character you play, i guess | 11:32 |
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| hrw | time to rsync n900 and update few packages | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | i kinda wonder if n900/ovi store will be having an autobuilder | 11:34 |
| hrw | I do not think so Stskeeps | 11:34 |
| RST38h | Sts: No, they replaced autobuilder with lawyers | 11:34 |
| go1dfish | and liability insurance requirements :/ | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | on a weird sidenote, corporate liability insurance, any good companies that deal with that? | 11:34 |
| go1dfish | at least for current ovi | 11:34 |
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| RST38h | Ah, forget the Ovi | 11:35 |
| go1dfish | not sure if it will appy to maemo ovi, but if so, that will be suicidal | 11:35 |
| RST38h | Ovi will stay for a year or two, then close, quietly | 11:35 |
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| go1dfish | Stskeeps: idk we looked around a bit | 11:38 |
| go1dfish | but it was too cost prohibitive for our current state | 11:39 |
| go1dfish | at least it should help keep out the fart/flashlight apps | 11:39 |
| go1dfish | but will likely keep some good stuff out to, but it's definitely a significant barrier to entry | 11:40 |
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| pupnik | nice use of wiki, jebba | 11:42 |
| Macer | hm | 11:42 |
| Macer | anybody here try out nitdroid? | 11:42 |
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| hrw | Macer: waste of time | 11:45 |
| * hrw -> off for some | 11:45 | |
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| Macer | heh | 11:45 |
| Macer | ok thanks | 11:45 |
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| flux | hmph, my device says "destination memory is insufficient" (or something to that effect in Finnish) and the dialog is stuck. which processes should I kill to continue as safely as possible?-) | 12:15 |
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| ManuelSE | flux - if you have a term open delete something, then kill | 12:18 |
| flux | manuelse, yep, doing that now | 12:18 |
| flux | hey, now it resumed | 12:18 |
| flux | after I freed some space | 12:19 |
| ManuelSE | argh sorry | 12:19 |
| ShadowJK | how much space on / ? (df -h) | 12:19 |
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| ManuelSE | i have 40700 kB free atm | 12:19 |
| hrw | re | 12:19 |
| flux | it was rootfs 233344 233340 0 100% / | 12:19 |
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| flux | it's now rootfs 233344 229576 0 100% / | 12:19 |
| ShadowJK | 100% :( that's bad | 12:20 |
| hrw | Macer: nitroid is good if you want to check what android is. but not for each day use | 12:20 |
| flux | but it apparently has some root-preserved area | 12:20 |
| flux | because 0 dosen't increase after removing stuff immediately | 12:20 |
| flux | whee, 156k after dpkg -r's and sync :) | 12:20 |
| hrw | Macer: at least that was with version which I had installed in october 2009 | 12:21 |
| flux | reboot usually takes me to 10M+ | 12:21 |
| ShadowJK | apt-get clean all | 12:21 |
| ShadowJK | oh if it's really full it wont boot, btw... | 12:21 |
| flux | yeah | 12:21 |
| ManuelSE | i keep a local MyDocs cache of debs. never know when i need em | 12:22 |
| flux | I've moved apt repos off the root already | 12:22 |
| flux | maybe I should do the same to dpkg | 12:22 |
| flux | but, off to eat | 12:22 |
| ShadowJK | it'll probably break upgrades, but you probablyh already know this, and you probably do backups too | 12:23 |
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| slonopotamus | where stuff from /opt is located on | 12:35 |
| slonopotamus | err | 12:35 |
| slonopotamus | is located on 28-gb partition? | 12:35 |
| slonopotamus | ah, nevermind | 12:35 |
| slonopotamus | /home is 2gb | 12:35 |
| slonopotamus | what's the point to separate root from /home? | 12:35 |
| ManuelSE | /home/opt is the point | 12:36 |
| slonopotamus | yeah, found it already | 12:36 |
| ManuelSE | ... | 12:36 |
| slonopotamus | but why not just make 2gb rootfs? | 12:37 |
| ShadowJK | the chip is 256meg | 12:37 |
| ccooke | Morning, all | 12:37 |
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| ShadowJK | the other chip is 32 marketing-gigs, divided into swap, /home and MyDocs | 12:38 |
| ManuelSE | it makes sense. if you are curious why, check devel list for debate | 12:38 |
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| ManuelSE | marketing gigs introduced by a crap company in 1994 iirc | 12:39 |
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| ManuelSE | megs back then | 12:39 |
| konttori | slonopotamus: the rootfs is on a oneNand chip (fast writes, fast random access, long durability), and the home is on emmc (moviNand), slow writes, slow random access. | 12:39 |
| ManuelSE | would you rather not see emus bypass pa, konttori? | 12:41 |
| konttori | sorry, what do you mean? | 12:41 |
| slonopotamus | konttori, have benchmark numbers? :) | 12:42 |
| ManuelSE | would you prefer if emus didnt bypass pulseaudio | 12:42 |
| hrw | someone wants to test newer hildon-desktop on n900? | 12:42 |
| hrw | no warranty at all | 12:42 |
| slonopotamus | konttori, booting my n800 from sd isn't slower than booting it from builtin flash | 12:42 |
| konttori | slonopotamus: no, I don' have them at hand. | 12:43 |
| konttori | Yes, reads are about the same speed on both | 12:43 |
| ShadowJK | the gpodder author complained gpodder startup was slower once he optified it... | 12:43 |
| konttori | also, SD is again different tech, and the chips tend to have some cache to balance off the slow writes. | 12:43 |
| slonopotamus | ... | 12:43 |
| ManuelSE | hrw isnt that coming out with next firmware? | 12:43 |
| hrw | ManuelSE: I nave newer one | 12:44 |
| hrw | built | 12:44 |
| ManuelSE | cool | 12:44 |
| slonopotamus | how much do you writer to 256-mb root, uh? | 12:44 |
| slonopotamus | s/writer/write/ | 12:44 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: how much do you write to 256-mb root, uh? | 12:44 |
| ManuelSE | i cannot risk it right now sorry | 12:44 |
| ShadowJK | it's the small writes that really hurt | 12:45 |
| konttori | slonopotamus: usually the writes are for db related activities on maemo - and no, on fremantle, almost no writes take place on rootfs. | 12:45 |
| slonopotamus | ShadowJK, how many small srites do you do to rootfs? | 12:45 |
| slonopotamus | all user data is in /home | 12:46 |
| ManuelSE | you might as well argue keyboard layout | 12:46 |
| ShadowJK | The question is how many writes do you do to /home and MyDocs | 12:46 |
| PaulFertser | Hm, somebody's claimed production n900 had that "falling off receptable" problem fixed. | 12:47 |
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| slonopotamus | ShadowJK, i don't see any reason to use 256mb chip at all. it just introduced tons of problems (optification, yep) | 12:47 |
| * slonopotamus attempts to reorganize his n900 disk layout | 12:49 | |
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| ShadowJK | The times when you want to read executables and libraries is when you're under memory pressure, and then you'll have swap activity, and those writes will drown out reads.. | 12:49 |
| slonopotamus | you want to read executables when you launch them :) | 12:50 |
| ManuelSE | viel spass beim verschlimmbessern | 12:50 |
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| ShadowJK | optification is kinda silly. why bother with symlinks and all, just configure with --prefix /opt/maemo or something... and maybe calling it /usr/local to start with would've made more sense | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: ld.so.conf will be insane :P | 12:51 |
| ManuelSE | hmm | 12:51 |
| ShadowJK | stskeeps: works with /usr/local ? | 12:51 |
| ManuelSE | can i alias configure="configure --prefix /opt/maemo" in sbox? | 12:52 |
| ShadowJK | Let's just ignore the guidelines saying /opt is supposed to be /opt/application/* | 12:52 |
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| ManuelSE | oh right | 12:52 |
| konttori | I agree on the above. | 12:52 |
| ShadowJK | and treat it as /usr/local or whatever | 12:52 |
| konttori | that's the right spirit! | 12:53 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, yeah, changing each and every package _again_ is much simpler | 12:53 |
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| konttori | I think the choice is something to be done on per project, per maintainer basis. | 12:53 |
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| slonopotamus | i choose 32-gb partition mounted at /. | 12:54 |
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| ShadowJK | But hey, it's better than N8x0 which had no extra space for apps at all :) | 12:54 |
| slonopotamus | ShadowJK, boot from sd and forget all this 256mb crap :) | 12:54 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, you have bootmenu working on n900, correct? | 12:55 |
| Hrww | fucking watchdog... | 12:55 |
| * ShadowJK has only been killed by watchdog once on n900 so far :D | 12:56 | |
| * RST38h reMoos | 12:56 | |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: right | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: but i'm not sure PR1.0 is multiboot stable | 12:58 |
| Hrww | ok, now my n900 is in reboot hell | 12:58 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, pr1.0 - ? | 12:59 |
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| Hrww | slonopotamus: 42.11 firmware | 12:59 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: the initial firmware on production n900s | 12:59 |
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| tigert | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/blender2.5alpha-maemo5/ | 13:00 |
| tigert | woot | 13:00 |
| tigert | :) | 13:00 |
| RST38h | ehhehe | 13:01 |
| RST38h | Now need Matlab. | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | octave too | 13:01 |
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| tigert | well, blender has a game engine | 13:02 |
| tigert | would be interesting if that worked well | 13:02 |
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| RST38h | at 1fps, probably | 13:05 |
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| pupnik | any good news from your end, ali1234 ? | 13:06 |
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| ccooke | So, I hear I'm not the only one who has had a preproduction n900 lose its miocrousb port? | 13:15 |
| andre__ | hmm, so why does my blog entry not show up on planet maemo? and who to ping about this? :-/ | 13:15 |
| * RST38h sighs at andre | 13:15 | |
| pupnik | ccooke: a few seem to not be seated properly and pull-out | 13:16 |
| RST38h | andre: file a bug at bugzilla | 13:17 |
| ccooke | pupnik: that's the one. Has there been any suggestion that nokia will do repair or replacement? | 13:17 |
| RST38h | pupnik: The way I heard it, they are all surface mounted (including production models) so they come off | 13:17 |
| Jaffa | andre__: X-Fade. | 13:19 |
| Jaffa | andre__: And presumably perhaps because of the new blog which has been introduced by "Unknown author" coming all in in one go. | 13:19 |
| ccooke | (... hell, I'd be willing to pay (within reason) for a repair) | 13:20 |
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| tekojo | andre__ news update is about once an hour | 13:21 |
| pupnik | ccooke: can you stick it back in and get a connection? | 13:22 |
| andre__ | tekojo: see http://maemo.org/news//planet-maemo/category/feed:dc20fa196db95934cf422cacd1cd8471/ - http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/2010/01/01/2009-bugzilla-statistics-for-maemo-org-and-gnome/ is missing though it has a "maemo" category | 13:22 |
| ccooke | pupnik: that'll be my fallback if I can't get someone to do it for me. At least, I'll attempt it! | 13:23 |
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| LuciusMare | hi | 13:28 |
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| LuciusMare | i accidentally unmounted my memory cars,how do i mount it back?its not in fstab (i have a n900) | 13:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | LuciusMare: have you removed the back? | 13:29 |
| MaemohammadAG | reboot. easiest way | 13:29 |
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| red | 09:05 [Freenode] DCC SEND from bear [0.0.0.0 port 0]: поɦʞɔпɟ [0B bytes] requested in channel #maemo | 13:30 |
| red | 09:10 [Freenode] DCC aborted receiving file поɦʞɔпɟ from bear | 13:30 |
| red | cool | 13:30 |
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| LuciusMare | SpeedEvil: no | 13:32 |
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| * asj_ dances | 13:34 | |
| * Hrww reflashes | 13:35 | |
| asj_ | I have my first useful maemo5 app running on the device and working :P) | 13:35 |
| * LuciusMare would like to moumt | 13:36 | |
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| LuciusMare | i mean,whats the /device | 13:36 |
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| ifreq | red he was k-lined after | 13:38 |
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| MaemohammadAG | lucismare just reboot | 13:46 |
| LuciusMare | but...but... | 13:46 |
| MaemohammadAG | what | 13:46 |
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| LuciusMare | that will break my uptime! | 13:46 |
| lcuk | asj_, so you managed to install liqflow then :D | 13:46 |
| asj_ | lcuk: hmm? | 13:46 |
| lcuk | most useful app award | 13:47 |
| MaemohammadAG | o.o | 13:47 |
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| asj_ | lcuk: ah no, I wrote a scheduler with qt 4.6 so you can switch silent/general at certain times. I'll expand it to do more timed events for dcop controls | 13:48 |
| MaemohammadAG | lucismare /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat | 13:48 |
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| red | ifreq: how do you know? :p | 13:52 |
| * hrw wants dpkg-repack for maemo5 | 13:52 | |
| MaemohammadAG | conboy updated | 13:54 |
| PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: hi :) | 13:55 |
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| PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: need your opinion: is "Differentiation" (meaning what makes one company's products different from other's) a buzz word? Does it have any connotations with press-releases or PR department? | 13:56 |
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| ifreq | red: saw it afterwards | 14:00 |
| ifreq | red: and it happened yesterday | 14:00 |
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| MaemohammadAG | how do i restart media daemons? | 14:01 |
| pupnik | "Mail for Exchange (MfE). Blame me here, pls" has to be one of the best announcement titles on t.m.o :) | 14:01 |
| hrw | ~hail dpkg-repack | 14:03 |
| * infobot bows down to dpkg-repack and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" | 14:03 | |
| hrw | ~curse nokia for not providing packages | 14:03 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nokia for not providing packages ! | 14:03 |
| TomaszD | hrw, what packages? | 14:04 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, around? | 14:04 |
| zaheerm | yep | 14:04 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, why none of your gstreamer packages have a postrm script for removing filetypes recognition from tracker upon package removal? | 14:04 |
| TomaszD | brb | 14:05 |
| zaheerm | TomaszD, because I forgot to put them! | 14:05 |
| Macer | :) | 14:06 |
| Macer | ZFS is a 128-bit file system, so it can address 18 quintillion (1.84 × 1019) times more data than current 64-bit systems. The limitations of ZFS are designed to be so large that they would never be encountered, given the known limits of physics (and the number of atoms in the earth's crust to build such a storage device). | 14:06 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, I noticed that while making gstreamer0.10-rm | 14:06 |
| Macer | did someone actually do the math on that? | 14:06 |
| zaheerm | TomaszD, thx for spotting | 14:06 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: but what if we start harvesting mars | 14:06 |
| Macer | see! | 14:06 |
| Macer | that's what i said! | 14:06 |
| RST38h | Macer: 2^128 | 14:07 |
| Macer | or the moon | 14:07 |
| Macer | we can get more atoms from the moon | 14:07 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, it's really troublesome for people who remove my decoders-support package, because flv files stay as recognized in the media player :( | 14:07 |
| RST38h | Macer: lots, lots of data | 14:07 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, I'll have versioned deps on your packages once you release fixes | 14:07 |
| zaheerm | TomaszD, i'm creating a new package for extras-devel | 14:07 |
| RST38h | Although, you can of course represent all the atoms in the universe in a zillion diffierent ways and overload ZFS | 14:07 |
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| Macer | RST38h: yeah well... :) | 14:07 |
| hrw | dpkg-deb: building package `browser-neteal' in `./browser-neteal_0.6.10.1.1+0m5_armel.deb'. | 14:08 |
| hrw | TomaszD: calendar for example | 14:08 |
| hrw | TomaszD: once removed, cannot be installed | 14:08 |
| Macer | i just thought it was funny that someone made that statement | 14:08 |
| Macer | we can't do it with all the atoms in the earth's crust | 14:08 |
| Macer | earth's crust isn't that thick | 14:08 |
| Macer | i'm sure we can find some atoms underneath it | 14:08 |
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| TomaszD | zaheerm, which ones are yours again? -flv, -ogg, -flac? | 14:09 |
| slonopotamus | err... no > turned up on n900??? | 14:09 |
| RST38h | So, gentlemen, Gweled or Battle Gweled? | 14:09 |
| TomaszD | hrw, why would you want to remove the calendar? | 14:09 |
| RST38h | What should I install? | 14:09 |
| hrw | TomaszD: that was example | 14:10 |
| pupnik | Thanks for the help TomaszD - the 'feeds' that don't work are simply broken/fraudulent/not-feeds | 14:10 |
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| TomaszD | pupnik, np :) | 14:11 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, I'm planning to release gstreamer0.10-musepack, will you be around to help today CET? You weren't yesterday, I've had a terrifying time figuring this stuff out for gstreamer0.10-rm | 14:12 |
| TomaszD | I've already ported and optified the musepack decoder | 14:13 |
| zaheerm | yes | 14:13 |
| zaheerm | i am here today | 14:13 |
| TomaszD | cool | 14:13 |
| TomaszD | :) | 14:13 |
| zaheerm | i have been ill since 20/12 | 14:13 |
| zaheerm | so have hardly been around | 14:13 |
| TomaszD | ahh, I'm sorry to hear that, but you're ok now? | 14:13 |
| zaheerm | getting better | 14:14 |
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| zaheerm | my brain has been vegetating over xmas/new year | 14:14 |
| zaheerm | so many things i'm now behind on | 14:14 |
| TomaszD | caught something in Barcelona? ;) | 14:14 |
| zaheerm | yes | 14:14 |
| zaheerm | i went to bcn again the following week after long weekend | 14:14 |
| zaheerm | so i'm pretty sure bcn contributed | 14:14 |
| crashanddie | or airplanes | 14:14 |
| tybollt | pigflu? | 14:15 |
| TomaszD | I was meaning to speak with you there but I got pretty busy | 14:15 |
| zaheerm | tybollt, yah well i had the symptoms | 14:15 |
| crashanddie | the air in airplanes is very very bad, ever since they banned smoking (ironically) | 14:15 |
| zaheerm | tybollt, and took the tamiflu that the docs prescribed me | 14:15 |
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| tybollt | good thing you've recovered now though (I take it?). | 14:15 |
| zaheerm | yep mostly recovered | 14:15 |
| zaheerm | at least back to work again | 14:16 |
| crashanddie | swine flu was a joke though | 14:16 |
| TomaszD | good, because you need to fix your gstreamer package(s) | 14:16 |
| TomaszD | ;) | 14:16 |
| zaheerm | fixing :) | 14:16 |
| TomaszD | but it's extremely easy, you probably know, same as postinst, but replace -a with -d | 14:16 |
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| MaemohammadAG | tracker-update-ontology -c Music -d application/x-pn-realaudio audio/vnd.rn-realaudio audio/x-pn-realaudio | 14:18 |
| MaemohammadAG | tomaszD it removed mime types when i uninstalled your package | 14:18 |
| TomaszD | MaemohammadAG, that's because it's my package, not zaheerm's | 14:19 |
| MaemohammadAG | oh | 14:19 |
| TomaszD | check gstreamer0.10-flv as an example | 14:19 |
| zaheerm | :) | 14:19 |
| TomaszD | I'm looking at the rest now.. | 14:20 |
| zaheerm | his packages actually work unlike mine ;) | 14:20 |
| MaemohammadAG | btw i'm getting a lot of could not get files by MIME type, Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken. errors | 14:20 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, it took my about 3hrs to figure things out enough to produce a safe package for realmedia support | 14:20 |
| TomaszD | I was very close to just ripping libraries out and forcing them in the right place without any build systems | 14:21 |
| zaheerm | :) if you need gst related help, just ping in here...i'm around most weekdays during day | 14:21 |
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| zaheerm | by day i mean 10am - 7pm CET (9am - 6pm GMT) | 14:22 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, if you have a moment, take a look at the -rm package, there still might be a major screw-up somewhere, hopefully not though | 14:22 |
| zaheerm | ok will take a look after i submit better flv/other packages | 14:23 |
| TomaszD | also, I've noticed that the -bad set also has a realmedia decoder of sorts | 14:23 |
| TomaszD | but from the docs on gstreamer's website, I gather it's only for streams? | 14:23 |
| zaheerm | rmdemux from ugly is the one to use | 14:24 |
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| TomaszD | good, it's the one I'm using | 14:24 |
| TomaszD | tracker refuses to index my .rmvb sample though | 14:24 |
| zaheerm | all the streaming bits for real are now in ugly unless i missed something | 14:24 |
| TomaszD | although I've put a lot of trouble into mimetype recognition | 14:24 |
| neal | what's the right signal to catch to determine when the user selects an entry in a HildonTouchSelector? The "changed" is triggered if the store changes... | 14:25 |
| RST38h | clicked? | 14:25 |
| neal | RST38h : Was that for me? | 14:25 |
| RST38h | yes? | 14:26 |
| TomaszD | kulve, around? Your gstreamer0.10-flac package also doesn't have a postrm script AFAICS | 14:26 |
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| * RST38h moos at ab | 14:27 | |
| neal | RST38h : HildonTouchSelector does not implement the "clicked" signal. | 14:27 |
| DerSaidin | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/moobox/ - wheres the sauce? | 14:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: not really. It's kind of a straightforward term. | 14:28 |
| ab | RST38h, hi | 14:30 |
| RST38h | neal: do any of its parents implement clicked? | 14:30 |
| neal | RST38h : No. | 14:31 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, there's a guy asking for SDP streams support. I know there's sdpdemux, but will the media player be able to handle it? | 14:31 |
| RST38h | http://regmedia.co.uk/2010/01/04/fs_1.jpg | 14:31 |
| zaheerm | no | 14:31 |
| zaheerm | well if they download the sdp | 14:31 |
| zaheerm | then it could... | 14:32 |
| TomaszD | ah, so pointless then | 14:32 |
| neal | RST38h : Am I correct in that you haven't used this widget? | 14:32 |
| TomaszD | I'll reply to him | 14:32 |
| zaheerm | but usually you don't download an ssp | 14:32 |
| zaheerm | it is usually provided out of band like over rtsp | 14:32 |
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| dimitris82 | hello | 14:32 |
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| RST38h | neal: actually, I have, just in a different context | 14:33 |
| dimitris82 | jebba, i tried your howto yesterday and it worked the installation | 14:33 |
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| dimitris82 | jebba, now i am trying on another pc and it gives me the gui installation to configure proxy settings ? | 14:33 |
| neal | RST38h : How do you react when the user selects something? | 14:33 |
| neal | RST38h : Or do you only do that on some button click? | 14:33 |
| RST38h | neal: I do not. I call hildon_touch_selector_get_selected_rows | 14:34 |
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| * VDVsx yawns | 14:34 | |
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| dimitris82 | can anyone help me with this ? "why the gui installer tells me to confgiure prxoy settings?" and doesn't accept none settings? | 14:35 |
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| dimitris82 | anyone plz? | 14:38 |
| MaemohammadAG | tomaszD is there something wrong with the latest package? i'm getting no songs and no videos in the media player app | 14:39 |
| TomaszD | MaemohammadAG, turn your phone off and on again | 14:40 |
| dimitris82 | selinux i get it | 14:40 |
| dimitris82 | anyway thnx | 14:40 |
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| MaemohammadAG | kk | 14:40 |
| MaemohammadAG | any other way tomaszd? | 14:41 |
| woglinde | hi | 14:41 |
| MaemohammadAG | like restarting the daemons manually or sth? | 14:41 |
| TomaszD | MaemohammadAG, not sure, you could also restart tracker I guess | 14:41 |
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| MaemohammadAG | restarting tablet | 14:42 |
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| RST38h | 25kg of cocaine hits Spanish supermarket shelves | 14:45 |
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| woglinde | rst hm I wonder what you read the whole day | 14:45 |
| TomaszD | how do I control tracker? initctl list doesn't even have tracker on it | 14:45 |
| TomaszD | it's not a daemon? | 14:46 |
| TomaszD | there's no tracker-control binary | 14:46 |
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| TomaszD | ok that's not good, tracker-status segfaults | 14:47 |
| woglinde | oh oh | 14:48 |
| TomaszD | nah, false alarm, don't run as root :) | 14:48 |
| woglinde | *g* | 14:48 |
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| woglinde | shouldnt segfaul | 14:48 |
| woglinde | t | 14:48 |
| woglinde | but exit | 14:48 |
| woglinde | and warning dont run as root | 14:49 |
| joejoe | hi, i am playing with data sharing template, but i am not able to debug it. I written SharingPluginInterfaceAccountValidateResult validate (SharingAccount* account, ConIcConnection* con, gboolean *cont, gboolean* dead_mans_switch), but i am not able to debug it somehow | 14:49 |
| TomaszD | probably | 14:49 |
| joejoe | i mean, i cannot see the output of printf() or U_LOG_DEBUG anywhere | 14:50 |
| pupnik_ | there is just too much to learn | 14:51 |
| ShadowJK | do you have syslog installed? | 14:51 |
| ShadowJK | if so, it might end up in /var/log | 14:52 |
| ShadowJK | just guessing though | 14:52 |
| joejoe | i am using scratchbox, so i guess the ubuntu syslog is used | 14:53 |
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| RST38h | woglinde: That was pretty harmless, The Register | 14:56 |
| hrw | how to remove half of system: "apt-get install coreutils" from sdk | 14:56 |
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| * RST38h wonders if there is a way to prevent tracker from autoindexing the data | 14:57 | |
| hrw | RST38h: edit its config | 14:58 |
| zaheerm | TomaszD, ok new flv package on autobuilder | 14:58 |
| RST38h | and then have a button named "INDEX" | 14:58 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, cool, thanks | 14:58 |
| Arkenoi | wow guys, after month+ using n900 i've seen famous screen flicker in web browser and spontaneous reboot the first time :-) | 14:59 |
| Arkenoi | i thought it is kinda urban legend ;-) | 14:59 |
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| Arkenoi | though older tablets were quite easy to crash with web browser | 15:00 |
| pupnik_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39141 Organize program launcher icons - looks promising | 15:00 |
| Arkenoi | and 770 did it all the time | 15:00 |
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| RST38h | Anyone seen a bug where media player applet no longer reacts to pressing the play button? | 15:00 |
| pupnik_ | RST38h: do you get a yellow-bar error message, or nothing? | 15:01 |
| RST38h | nothing | 15:01 |
| pupnik_ | Ok, different problem | 15:01 |
| Arkenoi | rst38h: sometimes | 15:02 |
| ShadowJK | hrw: surely it asked first if you're sure you want to proceed ;) | 15:02 |
| RST38h | any preconditions to that? | 15:02 |
| Arkenoi | rst38h: none | 15:02 |
| wiretapped | anyone seen a bug where the timestamps in the mail client are all 10 minutes ahead of their real values? | 15:03 |
| wiretapped | i've been seeing this ever since i changed timezones | 15:03 |
| zaheerm | TomaszD, it's in, can you check it works please | 15:03 |
| RST38h | Weirdly even reboot does not fix that | 15:03 |
| RST38h | Only fixes itself if you remove the widget, then add it again | 15:03 |
| wiretapped | actually it is just the list view; message view is correct | 15:04 |
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| hrw | ShadowJK: of course it asked, I said no | 15:04 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, thanks, I'll versionize the -flv dep to pull your new package | 15:04 |
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| joejoe | maybe someone could take a look over my source code and tell me what to modify to see debuging messages (printf, U_LOG_ERR, etc.) http://pcmlich.fit.vutbr.cz/sharing-service-youtube.tgz | 15:07 |
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| TomaszD | 04 sty 2010, 00:07:37: Tracker-Critical **: Could not open directory 'file:///home/user/MyDocs/.camera': No such file or directory | 15:09 |
| TomaszD | wth | 15:09 |
| TomaszD | there never was a .camera folder | 15:09 |
| joejoe | so it is in template. But anyway, I created the directory .camera | 15:10 |
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| TomaszD | joejoe, what do you mean "it is in the template" | 15:11 |
| TomaszD | so the tracker template is wrong, is that what you're saying? | 15:11 |
| tbf | hmm. i wonder why some operators don't want to have the N900 in their program | 15:12 |
| TomaszD | they can't lock it down | 15:12 |
| PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: thanks :) | 15:12 |
| tbf | this awesome SMS integration causes even guys like me to 1) write SMSes | 15:13 |
| tbf | 2) to write them often | 15:13 |
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| tbf | 3) and to accidentally create multipart SMSes | 15:13 |
| TomaszD | unfortunately that's also true for me | 15:13 |
| tbf | so the SMS part should put $$$ signs into their greedy eyes | 15:13 |
| joejoe | TomaszD, just my misunderstanding, there is nothing about .camera folder in template or in my code | 15:13 |
| lcuk | tbf, sms on n900 is uber cool | 15:13 |
| ifreq | its same as on iphone tbh | 15:13 |
| ifreq | chat view | 15:13 |
| lcuk | my missus however doesnt like it when i send txts with 1 word in each | 15:13 |
| frals | lol lcuk, my gf is whining about how i use sms as im | 15:14 |
| TomaszD | joejoe, no, I was generally talking about the N900's tracker daemon, not your code | 15:14 |
| lcuk | whole flowing paragraphs with my unlimited txt account :D i can read em but it messes her up | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | 'it's just slow IRC' doesn't work well in some cases. | 15:14 |
| lcuk | frals, it makes you want sms account | 15:14 |
| * Arkenoi sms'ed alot with e90, now with n900 i use IM mostly | 15:14 | |
| lcuk | before the n900 i rarely if ever used sms, but now i use it like irc | 15:14 |
| lcuk | (ie a fuckload) | 15:14 |
| tbf | lcuk: seems you've got a valentines gift :-D | 15:15 |
| lcuk | tbf :) plans are already afoot | 15:15 |
| tybollt | lcuk: same here actually... I use to loath sending those blasted texts... | 15:15 |
| * lcuk will give her a pink one | 15:15 | |
| frals | i used it a lot before as well but now its even more | 15:15 |
| frals | <3 qwerty | 15:15 |
| lcuk | its the conversation aspect | 15:15 |
| tybollt | lcuk: problem is my current subscription has unlimited voice - restricted (so get very expensive) texts ;P | 15:16 |
| lcuk | old phone had 1 txt | 15:16 |
| lcuk | no context | 15:16 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: not having to remember context | 15:16 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: of course that screws conversation partners with no context :) | 15:16 |
| tybollt | lcuk: s/old phone/most phones/ | 15:16 |
| lcuk | tybollt, pay as i go, £15 a month gives access to an o2 bolton in the uk, unlimited sms and same 3g internet | 15:16 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, yeah | 15:17 |
| lcuk | hence mrs getting angry and wondering why i sent a text saying "and" | 15:17 |
| tybollt | haaha :D | 15:17 |
| lcuk | before the rest of the flood arrives | 15:17 |
| lcuk | (they come out of order) | 15:17 |
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| edheldil | unfortunately here the SMS is cash cow for all operators :( | 15:17 |
| lcuk | same here | 15:17 |
| tybollt | edheldil: same here in sweden. | 15:17 |
| * SpeedEvil is cheap - hence 20 quid for 6 month internet package and avoiding texting and calling on PAYG. :) | 15:17 | |
| Muhvi | its funny | 15:18 |
| lcuk | without the bolton i would *easily* burn through £10 credit in a day | 15:18 |
| frals | i got 3000 sms/mms here.. most ive used in a month is like 800 :( | 15:18 |
| lcuk | with just a couple of messages and a quick check on google | 15:18 |
| tybollt | lcuk: bolton is a footy team to me, what's that mean? :) | 15:18 |
| lcuk | frals, how many MMSs do you have | 15:18 |
| lcuk | "bolt on" | 15:18 |
| frals | its 3000 combined | 15:18 |
| Muhvi | as SMS uses signaling path which is necessary for GMS networks and doesn't cost anything extra to the phone firms | 15:18 |
| lcuk | add on extra service to account | 15:18 |
| tybollt | oh, sorry, hehe ;) | 15:18 |
| Muhvi | basicly that means that SMS costs nothing to the service provider, but they get lots of money from it | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Muhvi: meaningless. | 15:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | Muhvi: it costs something - of course it does. Maintaining and building out the network is not free. | 15:19 |
| tybollt | frals: frals what subscriptions is that? | 15:19 |
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| Muhvi | SpeedEvil, of course, but if you have people who talk with phones, the signaling pathway is necessary | 15:20 |
| Muhvi | and SMS is freebie | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Muhvi: just because one aspect of that service is easy to deliver, and cheap... | 15:20 |
| frals | tele2 kompis, its only within tele2 afaik, but i tihnk they have a add-on that gives you free sms to everyone | 15:20 |
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| milos_ | how to subscribe to a bug in bugs.maemo.org? | 15:21 |
| Muhvi | SpeedEvil, i get your point, of course it is much more efficient use of network when sms are used and you can get money from them | 15:21 |
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| hrw | dpkg-repack: File not found: /usr/share/doc/as-config-applet-l10n-svse/copyright | 15:21 |
| hrw | dpkg-repack: File not found: /usr/share/doc/as-config-applet-l10n-svse/changelog.gz | 15:21 |
| Stskeeps | hrw: docpurge | 15:21 |
| hrw | nice way of getting free space... | 15:21 |
| Muhvi | but for example sending email is much more demanding to the network than SMS | 15:22 |
| hrw | Stskeeps: they should not package it then | 15:22 |
| pupnik_ | being impatient with the browser really screws things up | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | hrw: debian policy | 15:22 |
| edheldil | here I have 70 minutes _or_ ~300 sms for 20$. The operators suck here :( | 15:23 |
| hrw | Stskeeps: please... since when maemo follows any policies except own ones? | 15:23 |
| * hrw back in few | 15:24 | |
| pupnik_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kte4RZXcH08 <- Warzone 2100 on N900 - new build / faster, harder, better... | 15:24 |
| viggi | Wait, duke nukem 3d? | 15:25 |
| milos_ | ok, I figured out | 15:25 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: Upload to extras? =) | 15:28 |
| matthew- | How do you get Duke 3d? | 15:28 |
| matthew- | is it extras-devel? | 15:28 |
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| ShadowJK | if sms is so light, how come there are 6 hours delay when people send "happy new year!" :) | 15:28 |
| woglinde | ShadowJK because everyone write sms | 15:29 |
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| MaemohammadAG | root's full again :( | 15:30 |
| MaemohammadAG | thinking about repartitioning it, but i don't want a small MyDocs partition | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | you can't repartition root | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | it is on a 256M device | 15:31 |
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| MaemohammadAG | so what's the method on tmo for? | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I would hesitate to say what anything on TMO is for. | 15:33 |
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| MaemohammadAG | lol | 15:33 |
| pupnik_ | Why don't you go moving things from root to opt and tell us when you reflash | 15:33 |
| MaemohammadAG | so what's the best way to have apps on extras-devel w/o filling up root | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | reboot occasionally - some things seem to eat space | 15:34 |
| MaemohammadAG | apt-get clean helps | 15:34 |
| MaemohammadAG | last reboot was ah hour ago | 15:34 |
| MaemohammadAG | an* | 15:35 |
| pupnik_ | out of curiosity, show du -s /usr/bin | 15:36 |
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| woglinde | anyone knows how cut and paste on osso-xterm works on n900? | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | hit the pointer icon | 15:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | select | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | ctrl-c | 15:37 |
| ShadowJK | tap pointer, paint text, tap menu, tap copy | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | or that'll work | 15:37 |
| MaemohammadAG | ctrl c kills processes | 15:37 |
| kulve | TomaszD: why should it have postrm script? | 15:37 |
| woglinde | ShadowJK pointer? | 15:38 |
| jeremiah | This guitar kills fascists | 15:38 |
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| woglinde | whats the pointer? | 15:38 |
| pupnik_ | lower left on terminal - arrow icon | 15:38 |
| MaemohammadAG | left bottom corner, there's a pointer icon | 15:38 |
| woglinde | ah | 15:38 |
| SpeedEvil | the pointer on the bar with tab | 15:38 |
| woglinde | got it | 15:38 |
| woglinde | yeah | 15:38 |
| woglinde | thanks | 15:38 |
| adalal | is there a voicemail program for maemo? | 15:38 |
| TomaszD | kulve, to de-register flash video mimetype upon package removal | 15:39 |
| TomaszD | kulve, oops, not flash, flac | 15:39 |
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| TomaszD | kulve, otherwise if you remove your package, the flac files (and possibly ogg files too) stay in the Media Player but you can't play them | 15:39 |
| ccooke | Anyone used one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/U-Bop-PowerSURE-Performance-Battery-XpressMusic/dp/B002SS3GBC/ref=sr_1_24/279-5234104-3229754?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1262611442&sr=1-24 ? | 15:39 |
| TomaszD | kulve, they should be de-indexed | 15:40 |
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| MaemohammadAG | pupnik_ 24576/usr/bin | 15:40 |
| kulve | TomaszD: the gstreamer packages just add/remove codecs. Ogg-support package has the postinst/rm scripts to handle Media Player / Tracker specific stuff | 15:40 |
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| pupnik_ | MaemohammadAG: 23468/usr/bin | 15:41 |
| pupnik_ | rootfs 233344 184716 44344 81% / | 15:41 |
| TomaszD | kulve, oh sorry, I just noticed that. I was under the impression that they weren't doing their job anyway. ;) | 15:41 |
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| MaemohammadAG | rootfs 232868 223832 4752 98% / | 15:42 |
| pupnik_ | du /var/cache/apt/archives | 15:42 |
| MaemohammadAG | 0 | 15:42 |
| pupnik_ | well something aint right there | 15:43 |
| MaemohammadAG | i did an apt-get clean | 15:43 |
| MaemohammadAG | extras-devel? | 15:43 |
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| pupnik_ | all repos enabled here | 15:43 |
| MaemohammadAG | what's the command to show installed apps? | 15:44 |
| MaemohammadAG | i'll pastebin the list | 15:44 |
| pupnik_ | there are deluxe ways. i do dpkg -l |grep ii | 15:44 |
| pupnik_ | i won't look at your list | 15:44 |
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| * ccooke considers taking a risk on a second battery and http://www.eastmaze.com/BL-5J-Desktop-Battery-Charger-for-Nokia-5800-Comes-With-Music-p904.html?tkid=16¤cy=GBP until he can get his n900 fixed :-) | 15:45 | |
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| matthew- | is it BL-5J ? | 15:46 |
| tigert | ccooke: you got a N8XX? | 15:46 |
| ShadowJK | ccooke: get two.. dismantle one and post pics | 15:46 |
| ShadowJK | (of the chips) | 15:47 |
| ShadowJK | My bet is that these chargers have battery protection chips instead of charging chips.. :) | 15:47 |
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| ccooke | tigert: I had an n810 up until last week. Unfortunately it looks like the battery is dead | 15:50 |
| ccooke | ShadowJK: oh yes? | 15:50 |
| tigert | ccooke: (with all possible disclaimers) it can charge the N900 battery iirc | 15:51 |
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| ccooke | ... really? | 15:51 |
| tigert | ccooke: oh, mine was like that too, had to be in charger for longer to actually boot up | 15:51 |
| ccooke | my n810 has been dying a little bit. | 15:52 |
| ccooke | for about six months... Ever since it got caught in the rain and the battery shrunk ;-) | 15:52 |
| tigert | ccooke: you just need to hack the little tab in N810 so the N900 battery fits | 15:52 |
| tigert | also | 15:52 |
| tigert | it might explode, burn your dog, cause famine and earthquakes etc disclaimer | 15:53 |
| tigert | etc etc | 15:53 |
| ccooke | *nod* | 15:53 |
| tigert | but it seems to charge | 15:53 |
| tigert | both are 3.7V | 15:53 |
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| Gadgetoid_mbp | What happens if I try swapping the battery with USB connected for "external" power? need to charge my spare, har! | 15:54 |
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| tigert | Gadgetoid_mbp: imagine the effect an old TV made when you turned if off | 15:55 |
| tigert | *poof* | 15:55 |
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| tigert | unfortunately it is not usb power supply, just charger :/ | 15:55 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Pfft! | 15:55 |
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| Dassu | ok | 16:01 |
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| mkargar | hello | 16:01 |
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| pupnik_ | wow a t.m.o. user just claimed to have transferred files to N900 via IR receiver.... | 16:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | cunning. | 16:06 |
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| woglinde | hehe | 16:07 |
| pupnik_ | via built-in IR receiver... | 16:07 |
| ShadowJK | sure, just get you tv's remote control, open the file in a hex editor on your computer, and start keying in the file on the remote | 16:07 |
| ShadowJK | ;) | 16:07 |
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| Arkenoi | pupnik: is it really separate from the transmitter and on the front? | 16:07 |
| Arkenoi | and is located on the front even | 16:08 |
| pupnik_ | i don't know if it exists | 16:08 |
| SpeedEvil | the proximity sensor does have an IR reciver. | 16:09 |
| SpeedEvil | however - if it can be used for IR reception is unclear. | 16:09 |
| SpeedEvil | how fast it is, how fast it can be polled | 16:09 |
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| ShadowJK | CIR is like 300bps | 16:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | something like that, but you need to sample moderately faster than that. | 16:10 |
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| tybollt | ehr, why would transmitting files via IR _not_ work (granted necesarry software might not be instaled by default)? :) | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | because htere is no hardware designed for it | 16:13 |
| flux | tybollt, I'd assume the IR link must be bidirectional for transfers to work | 16:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | there is no dedicated IR reciever | 16:13 |
| tybollt | oh | 16:13 |
| SpeedEvil | the camera, or the reciever of hte proximity sensor may work, but it's not straightforward in either case. | 16:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | Someone claiming to have 'just done it' wihtout writing software is at best confused. | 16:14 |
| flux | btw, I took a peek at the IR signal N900 produces and compared it to a tv remote, and it didn't seem to be much weaker. I suppose an actualy measureemnt would be required to get a better idea, though.. | 16:14 |
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| flux | speedevil, my guess is they accidentally transferred over BT :P | 16:15 |
| SpeedEvil | probably | 16:15 |
| flux | (s/they/he/) | 16:15 |
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| ShadowJK | just open up your n900 and add some wires from the proximity sensor's ir receiver to the mic input, and lirc should pick it up ;p | 16:15 |
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| flux | shadowjk, how about the 38kHz carrier signal, wouldn't it mess it up? | 16:15 |
| SpeedEvil | flux: you don't picxk thatup | 16:15 |
| flux | indeed, but it doesn't cause problems? | 16:16 |
| flux | I suppose not | 16:16 |
| SpeedEvil | flux: you just recxieve the baseband signal, and generate a guessaed caerrier | 16:16 |
| SpeedEvil | on transmission. | 16:16 |
| lcuk | the accelerometer on the n900 is sensitive enough to detect when IR light is shone on it. it detects the beat frequency of the wavelengths as each photon hits the shiney surface | 16:16 |
| flux | lcuk, hey, that's a nice discovery! when can be expect software to do that for lirc?! ! | 16:16 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk: so that's why you polish your n900 all the time | 16:16 |
| SpeedEvil | That is true, but the required intensity of IR is more easily detected by the case exploding. | 16:16 |
| lcuk | haha | 16:17 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, it looks like im polishing my n900 | 16:17 |
| lcuk | but now you know the truth | 16:17 |
| flux | shadowjk, yeah, to keep the cover from going soft and lowering the impulse | 16:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | hmm. | 16:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | who would sacrifice their front camera for a little joystick... | 16:18 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: easily | 16:18 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders hardware. | 16:18 | |
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| tybollt | problem is how you make it not poke your eardrum out ;O | 16:19 |
| flux | speedevil, purely mechanical hardware or what?-) | 16:19 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, we need a kempston interface | 16:19 |
| lcuk | ols school joysticks were amazing | 16:19 |
| SpeedEvil | optomechanical | 16:19 |
| lcuk | old | 16:19 |
| flux | is there a serial interface in the device somewhere? under the battery? | 16:19 |
| SpeedEvil | flux: probably | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | yeah but we're not sure which one | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | flux: I mean to investigate it, but havent got there yet | 16:20 |
| flux | I guess it could be used with relative ease, with those flexible thin plastic connectors | 16:20 |
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| tybollt | I would pay money for a serial interface... | 16:20 |
| tybollt | ehr whitepaper whatever ) | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking | 16:21 |
| tybollt | thanks | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | flux: not really | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | flux: there is no direct connector socket | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | flux: At best it's a nasty mechanical hack or a solder job | 16:21 |
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| SplasPood | jesus.. | 16:23 |
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| pupnik_ | Hmm, used zeemotes can be found at auction for cheap on occasion | 16:27 |
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| TomaszD | zaheerm, would you be able to tell why rmvb doesn't get indexed even though it's supposed to be? | 16:33 |
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| TomaszD | zaheerm, I'm sure that I'm adding the mimetypes correctly, because the same are used to detect realmedia files in the file manager, and that works fine | 16:34 |
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| zaheerm | TomaszD, as a test, do: gst-launch -v -m filesrc location=filename ! typefind ! fakesink | 16:36 |
| zaheerm | where filename is your real media file | 16:36 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, lots and lots of output | 16:39 |
| zaheerm | sorry | 16:40 |
| zaheerm | add silent=true after fakesink :) | 16:40 |
| zaheerm | then only relevant info will come | 16:40 |
| TomaszD | hmm | 16:41 |
| TomaszD | application/vnd.rn-realmedia | 16:41 |
| TomaszD | fine | 16:41 |
| TomaszD | seems ok | 16:41 |
| TomaszD | the file plays fine when you run it from the file manager btw | 16:41 |
| zaheerm | ok | 16:41 |
| TomaszD | it just doesn't want to get indexed for some reason | 16:41 |
| zaheerm | so tracker didn't index it properly | 16:41 |
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| zaheerm | it uses gstreamer's typefinding to figure out mimetypes | 16:42 |
| TomaszD | /usr/bin/tracker-register-mimetype -c Videos -a application/vnd.rn-realmedia video/vnd.rn-realvideo video/x-real-video | 16:42 |
| zaheerm | yep i saw that in your src | 16:42 |
| TomaszD | I even named it FUNNY.rmvb to see it clearly on the list | 16:43 |
| TomaszD | nowhere to be found | 16:43 |
| zaheerm | wonder if there's a way to test the tracker indexer | 16:43 |
| TomaszD | it works fine for every other mimetype | 16:44 |
| TomaszD | I even manually added the musepack mimetype | 16:44 |
| TomaszD | and I have files indexed now | 16:44 |
| zaheerm | yah so something is borked... | 16:44 |
| TomaszD | mind you, the ffmpeg musepack decoder is broken badly | 16:45 |
| TomaszD | that's why I need the gstreamer plugin | 16:45 |
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| ShadowJK | hm, the mpc decoder in ffmpeg is fine through mplayer iirc | 16:47 |
| TomaszD | gstreamer-ffmpeg is not what mplayer is using though, right? | 16:48 |
| ShadowJK | right | 16:48 |
| TomaszD | :) | 16:48 |
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| TomaszD | time for some hacking | 16:48 |
| ShadowJK | I'm implying the bug is in gst not ffmpeg :P | 16:49 |
| TomaszD | we'll see if I can get the -bad external musepack plugin to work instead | 16:49 |
| TomaszD | I ported the plain decoder yesterday already | 16:50 |
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| [K]wrk | anyone who uses jabber want to help me out real quick | 16:56 |
| [K]wrk | I just switched over, but it seems that even though I have 3 clients, only the 1st client gets messages | 16:56 |
| [K]wrk | all 3 can send though | 16:56 |
| [K]wrk | how do I change which client gets the responses? | 16:56 |
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| pupnik | "tah intendnet iz gougle!" | 16:58 |
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| tybollt | pupnik: Gesundheit! | 16:58 |
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| Arkenoi | btw there is no mp3 encoder in n900's libavcodec | 16:59 |
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| mgedmin | [K]wrk, jabber clients usually have a "priority" field | 17:00 |
| dimitris82 | can anyone help me with the Jebbas SDK howto ? | 17:00 |
| mgedmin | I never remember whether it's the one with a higher number that gets messages, or the one with a lower number | 17:01 |
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| hrw | mgedmin: or selected by user one | 17:01 |
| mgedmin | usually I get the initial message to all my clients, and when I open a conversation in one of them, replies go only to that one | 17:01 |
| mgedmin | hrw, yeah, what I meant was that this was a user-configurable field in the account settings | 17:01 |
| mgedmin | jabber is complicated :( | 17:02 |
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| [K]wrk | yea, thats whats fusckin me | 17:05 |
| [K]wrk | I can't figure out why my desktop at home has the top priority | 17:05 |
| [K]wrk | I read about htat | 17:05 |
| [K]wrk | but Im using psi and I dont even see a field for priority | 17:05 |
| dimitris82 | mgedmin, i have finished completely his guide but when i start Xephyr and gives me a black screen is it alright ? | 17:05 |
| [K]wrk | and | 17:05 |
| [K]wrk | I found it | 17:05 |
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| [K]wrk | dimitris82, yea, if you dont start the actual manager, xephyr is only an X server running as an X cilent | 17:06 |
| mgedmin | dimitris82, ??? | 17:06 |
| [K]wrk | dimitris82, have you logged into the scratchbox | 17:06 |
| hrw | I got 2774 packages from dpkg-repack | 17:06 |
| dimitris82 | [K]wrk, yes | 17:06 |
| [K]wrk | then set the display variable to the new display number? | 17:07 |
| * mgedmin doesn't know what "the Jebbas SDK howto" is | 17:07 | |
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| [K]wrk | then executed the scratchboard start command? | 17:07 |
| dimitris82 | export DISPLAY=:2 ? | 17:07 |
| [K]wrk | yes | 17:07 |
| dimitris82 | .. /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start? | 17:08 |
| [K]wrk | of course, you ran xephyr as display :2 right? | 17:08 |
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| dimitris82 | [K]wrk, yes | 17:08 |
| [K]wrk | and once you do the scratchbox login, you should only have to type sbox_ctl start | 17:08 |
| [K]wrk | no need to specify the path | 17:08 |
| dimitris82 | am i need to exit from FREEMANTLE ? | 17:09 |
| [K]wrk | no, you must be in the scratchbox | 17:09 |
| [K]wrk | hold on | 17:09 |
| dimitris82 | :O | 17:09 |
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| [K]wrk | I created this script inside my scratchbox login | 17:10 |
| [K]wrk | called it start | 17:10 |
| [K]wrk | #! /bin/sh | 17:10 |
| [K]wrk | export DISPLAY=:2 | 17:10 |
| [K]wrk | af-sb-init.sh start | 17:10 |
| [K]wrk | ~ | 17:10 |
| [K]wrk | ~ | 17:10 |
| dimitris82 | thnx a lot [K]wrk | 17:10 |
| [K]wrk | try that | 17:11 |
| mabahj | hi all! anyone knows what /usr/bin/intellisyncd does? it has been consuming almost 100% cpu for a while here. | 17:11 |
| [K]wrk | damn | 17:11 |
| mabahj | (maemo 5) | 17:11 |
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| [K]wrk | mgedmin, thanks man, that fixed it, just had to remove the priority from the one client that HAD it set :) | 17:15 |
| [K]wrk | now the responses go everywhere | 17:15 |
| [K]wrk | mgedmin, do you know if its possible for jabber to send IM's to all clients that originate from one client? | 17:16 |
| dimitris82 | [K]wrk, but.. af-sb-init.sh isnt for root and scratchbox/login for user ? | 17:16 |
| mgedmin | [K]wrk, (your nickname is unfriendly to type), what are "all clients that originate from one client"? | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | not that I would know the answer anyway... | 17:17 |
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| mgedmin | basically all I know about Jabber is: set the "Resource" field to the name of your device in every different computer | 17:18 |
| mgedmin | I'm not sure why (because you can't be logged in twice with the same resource?) | 17:18 |
| mihu | Hi. I read about 2.2009.51-1 for N900 on talk.maemo.org. Is it available to the public already? | 17:18 |
| dimitris82 | sorry my mistake.. | 17:18 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 17:18 |
| mgedmin | also, some jabber clients let the user select to which resource he/she wants to send the message, maybe? | 17:19 |
| mgedmin | it's all very complicated | 17:19 |
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| KamuiWrk | I set 3 resources | 17:19 |
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| KamuiWrk | removed all priorities | 17:19 |
| KamuiWrk | finally all responses go to all clients | 17:19 |
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| KamuiWrk | I was just wondering if the original message could then be sent to all clients similar to the new windows live protocl | 17:19 |
| KamuiWrk | not a big deal, I can live with this | 17:20 |
| KamuiWrk | its basically the same as all multi IM systems have been up tot his point | 17:20 |
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| hrw | localepurge: Disk space freed in /usr/share/locale: 10500 KiB | 17:20 |
| hrw | ;D | 17:21 |
| hrw | nice gain on n900 | 17:21 |
| dimitris82 | when i run : Xephyr 2.. i get this _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed | 17:21 |
| dimitris82 | fatal server error: Cannot esablish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running | 17:22 |
| pupnik | yeah hrw i do that out of habit. should get a mention somewhere | 17:22 |
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| dimitris82 | when i start af-sb-init.sh start shouldnt i get errors right ? and running normally? | 17:24 |
| hrw | dimitris82: for fremantle_x86 yes, not for armel | 17:25 |
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| hrw | dimitris82: and #maemo-devel | 17:25 |
| dimitris82 | hrw, i need to run X86 and armel at same time ? | 17:25 |
| dimitris82 | thnx hrw | 17:25 |
| hrw | dimitris82: what for? | 17:25 |
| dimitris82 | hrw i only want to see the enviroment of maemo | 17:26 |
| hrw | use x86 then | 17:26 |
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| dimitris82 | hrw, browserd[4189]: GLIB WARNING ** Gtk - cannot open display: :2 | 17:28 |
| dimitris82 | hrw do you know what i do wrong? | 17:28 |
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| KamuiWrk | yea you can't run armel built binaries on anything but the device | 17:29 |
| KamuiWrk | afaik | 17:29 |
| KamuiWrk | dimitris82, that error sounds like you didn't run xephyr properly | 17:29 |
| dimitris82 | KamuiWrk, i get this : Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running | 17:30 |
| KamuiWrk | Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -kb & | 17:30 |
| KamuiWrk | try that | 17:30 |
| KamuiWrk | thats how you should run Xephyr | 17:30 |
| dimitris82 | KamuiWrk, i am trying to run it on fedora 12 | 17:31 |
| dimitris82 | i think -kb doesnt need neither "&" | 17:31 |
| dimitris82 | KamuiWrk, i get the same and this one above _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed | 17:31 |
| pupnik | xephyr shows you the blank window when you start it? | 17:32 |
| [Tycho] | I can run Xephyr only on :3 :( | 17:32 |
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| dimitris82 | now nothing lol | 17:32 |
| [Tycho] | But maemo can't start with :3 | 17:33 |
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| dimitris82 | [Tycho], lol i try it on 3 but blank screen again | 17:33 |
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| ali1234 | pupnik: good news on what? | 17:33 |
| dimitris82 | with (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed (2) | 17:34 |
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| pupnik | oh anything game or sound or video | 17:34 |
| [Tycho] | I get the blank screen on :3 and i think that it's normal since maemo is not started. | 17:34 |
| dimitris82 | [Tycho], how i can start maemo i am stuck with this | 17:34 |
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| dimitris82 | af-sb-init.sh start ? | 17:34 |
| pupnik | try ripping out sdl sound from something and using alsa libs with pasuspender, for e.g. ali1234 | 17:34 |
| ali1234 | pupnik: oh well, i only tried ogre3d so far, it compiles are runs quite fast but there is graphics corruption | 17:34 |
| [Tycho] | I'm stuck even more. | 17:34 |
| pupnik | nice | 17:34 |
| [Tycho] | I'm trying Maemo 2.2 SDK | 17:35 |
| ali1234 | pupnik: i tried pasuspender but it doesn't work very well | 17:35 |
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| [Tycho] | Can someone have a look at http://tr00.ru/ub_01.png ? | 17:35 |
| dimitris82 | i am having too many errors on GLIB when i try to start af-sb-init.sh | 17:35 |
| pupnik | ali1234: with sdl_sound_alsa i never got clean sound. with aplay, mplayer it's perfect | 17:35 |
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| [Tycho] | Do you start maemo in the same console as Xephyr ? I get much more errors when i use other terminal. | 17:36 |
| ali1234 | i find same. i never get clean sound with SDL because it is using so much CPU that it stutters after every buffer | 17:36 |
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| KamuiWrk | dimitris82, thats a good point, you may already have another x server running on :2 | 17:37 |
| KamuiWrk | just change that to another number in every instance | 17:37 |
| KamuiWrk | maybe you're running a vnc server | 17:37 |
| dimitris82 | thnx KamuiWrk | 17:37 |
| KamuiWrk | or something else, who knows | 17:37 |
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| [Tycho] | Did anyone get to run SDK for n770 at all ? | 17:37 |
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| dimitris82 | [Tycho], i look at your image and i found the same error when i run af-sb-init.sh LOL | 17:39 |
| dimitris82 | segmentation faul | 17:39 |
| dimitris82 | t | 17:39 |
| Arkenoi | btw after 4-5 days uptime [omap2_mcspi] appears in top consuming 15-25% cpu, is it normal? | 17:39 |
| ali1234 | no | 17:40 |
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| pupnik | that 10 2 root RW 0 0.0 26.6 [omap2_mcspi] | 17:40 |
| pupnik | writing reading 2MB/s from mmc1 | 17:40 |
| pupnik | i just happened to be scp-ing at the moment | 17:40 |
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| Arkenoi | i did reboot and it came back to normal cpu consumption | 17:41 |
| KamuiWrk | good morning there pupnik | 17:41 |
| dimitris82 | maybe a reboot needs to fix that ? right ? :D | 17:41 |
| dimitris82 | hahah | 17:41 |
| KamuiWrk | I started implementing the opengles wrapper | 17:42 |
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| KamuiWrk | this is gonna take weeks | 17:42 |
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| [Tycho] | dimitris82, what nokia model you want to develop for ? | 17:42 |
| * Arkenoi thinks on oolite port, but that may be too much for a hobbyst project | 17:42 | |
| dimitris82 | why they dont put QT Creator with the maemo 5 sdk to finish easily ? :P | 17:42 |
| dimitris82 | [Tycho], i just order N900 :P | 17:42 |
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| [Tycho] | dimitris82, you can download ready to launch virtual machine image. | 17:43 |
| Arkenoi | GNUstep and stuff | 17:43 |
| dimitris82 | [Tycho], it needs virtualbox right ? i show that article | 17:43 |
| Arkenoi | might be tricky | 17:43 |
| [Tycho] | It needs Virutal PC. | 17:43 |
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| [Tycho] | *virtual | 17:44 |
| dimitris82 | [Tycho], i am sort of newbie it would be nice to start playing with these :P | 17:44 |
| * pupnik waves pom-poms and cheers gooooOOO KamuiWrk ! | 17:44 | |
| [Tycho] | It's for newbies, i suppose. | 17:44 |
| dimitris82 | anyway thnx for all your help see ya | 17:44 |
| pupnik | ambitious :D | 17:44 |
| dimitris82 | laugh* | 17:44 |
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| TomaszD | zaheerm, around still? | 17:46 |
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| zaheerm | yep | 17:46 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, compilation gets killed here | 17:46 |
| zaheerm | killed? | 17:46 |
| TomaszD | yep, killed | 17:46 |
| TomaszD | I'll paste it somewhere | 17:46 |
| zaheerm | ok | 17:46 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, http://paste-it.net/public/e65e567/ | 17:47 |
| pupnik | bundyo kicks butt | 17:47 |
| TomaszD | to be clear, I just rebooted to see if this was an issue on my end | 17:48 |
| zaheerm | ok don't run the tests :) | 17:48 |
| TomaszD | pupnik, what did he do? | 17:48 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, let me see if I can disable them | 17:48 |
| pupnik | got a lot of broken things built | 17:48 |
| zaheerm | with configure you can | 17:48 |
| pupnik | to build gemRB | 17:48 |
| pupnik | or he remembered how we did it last year ;) | 17:49 |
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| pupnik | if any of you are not happy with scratchbox, this new development enviroment could use some testers http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE | 17:50 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, --disable-tests ? | 17:50 |
| TomaszD | I can't see an option like that | 17:50 |
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| xorAxAx | do dealers offer cases for the n900 already? | 17:55 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | yeps | 17:55 |
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| xorAxAx | Sir_Lancelot: URL? | 17:55 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | I already have an original Nokia puch | 17:56 |
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| xorAxAx | DocScrutinizer: how does AGPS work on openmoko? | 17:56 |
| Sir_Lancelot | I bought mine on a portuguese online sotre | 17:56 |
| Sir_Lancelot | but I bet you can find it on expeansys | 17:56 |
| Sir_Lancelot | *expansys | 17:56 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | I'm eager to see what Sygic made for N900 | 17:57 |
| Sir_Lancelot | or are there other turn-by-turn navigation SW | 17:57 |
| |R | Sygic will be interesting but for the price and features i don't know | 17:57 |
| Sir_Lancelot | compatible with N900? | 17:57 |
| Sir_Lancelot | I had once nokia maps on my N95 | 17:57 |
| woglinde | Sir_Lancelot navit | 17:57 |
| Sir_Lancelot | but it lagged sooooooo dman much | 17:57 |
| woglinde | but have to port some stuff | 17:57 |
| xorAxAx | Sir_Lancelot: this one? http://www.expansys.de/d.aspx?i=189312 | 17:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | xorAxAx: we have a reduced form of "A" | 17:58 |
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| xorAxAx | DocScrutinizer51: more specifically, how does it interact with GSM? | 17:58 |
| Sir_Lancelot | exactly xorAxAx ;) | 17:58 |
| xorAxAx | Sir_Lancelot: do you know of any other cases? | 17:58 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | nop | 17:58 |
| Sir_Lancelot | I love this one | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | xorAxAx: not at all afaik | 17:59 |
| Sir_Lancelot | but if you're not into it...there's always the One-fits-All kind of cases | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bbl | 17:59 |
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| TomaszD | zaheerm, DEB_MAKE_CHECK_TARGET = check || true is commented out by default, but libtool won't work without this | 18:01 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, and I've no idea how to disable tests | 18:01 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, can you take a look at the source? | 18:01 |
| zaheerm | give me a sec | 18:02 |
| SpeedEvil | xorAxAx: on the FR, the GPS is entirely seperate from the phone | 18:02 |
| SpeedEvil | xorAxAx: for AGPS, it fetches a file from the internets, and pushes it to the GPS. | 18:02 |
| xorAxAx | ok | 18:03 |
| xorAxAx | Sir_Lancelot: how would you like this one? http://www.fommy.co.uk/view-full-page.asp?divid=Nokia&model=Nokia+N900&cat=Cases&skuno=85902 | 18:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: I'm not eben sure we get any file from internet at all | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | by default | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Oh - K. Never really looked at FR GPS much | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Thought it did. | 18:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | it has an POV implementation for that afaik. Not default though. Still with good signal we get a fix withinn 10sec now | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and we store alm/ephem received from sat | 18:06 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, hold on, I think I have a result | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | /join #openmoko-cdevel. ping alphaone or mickeyl | 18:06 |
| Sir_Lancelot | xorAxAx it's looks good, however I wonder how it slides... On the other hand, rubber cases are always a pain when you want to take the phone out of your pocket | 18:07 |
| Sir_Lancelot | :D | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I think alphaone or shoragan did the gps implementation | 18:07 |
| xorAxAx | Sir_Lancelot: indeed | 18:07 |
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| TomaszD | zaheerm, cp: cannot stat `./debian/tmp/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstmusepack.so': No such file or directory | 18:08 |
| TomaszD | even though it's there | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so another 5 min and I'm offline again as I'm moving tod*y | 18:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: see, I don't know of any AGPS server sported by OM. The ublox server needs an account and they will most likely terminate that account if we made this one the default for all FSO based devices | 18:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | ah | 18:26 |
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| ShadowJK | Some people were using supl.google.com or something with n900, heh :) | 18:29 |
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| TomaszD | zaheerm, success | 18:30 |
| TomaszD | :) | 18:30 |
| Corsac | is supl.nokia.com filter by user-agent? | 18:30 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | I use the google one | 18:33 |
| Sir_Lancelot | and it's 10000000000000000000000000000000x faster | 18:33 |
| Sir_Lancelot | ;) | 18:33 |
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| TomaszD | tracker segfaults, geez | 18:49 |
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| TomaszD | sweet sweet Musepack goodness filling my ears straight from the N900 | 18:51 |
| clmntch | hello | 18:53 |
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| homeasvs | X-Fade, I submitted couchdb for building yesterday, and I just wanted to check if the build is proceeding, or if it locked up the build slave | 19:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: Sir_Lancelot: so supl.x.y is kinda standardiced format for gps assistance data? | 19:17 |
| woglinde | homeasvs couchdb went through | 19:18 |
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| Corsac | DocScrutinizer51: yeah | 19:18 |
| Corsac | DocScrutinizer51: http://www.openmobilealliance.org/Technical/release_program/supl_v2_0.aspx | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | woglinde: who did AGPS for FSO? | 19:18 |
| woglinde | doc ask mickeyl | 19:18 |
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| woglinde | homeasvs -> http://maemo.org/packages/view/couchdb/ | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | k :-) | 19:18 |
| woglinde | ups failed | 19:19 |
| woglinde | hm | 19:19 |
| woglinde | my memory | 19:19 |
| homeasvs | woglinde, no, it's building, look at the last line | 19:19 |
| woglinde | ah now | 19:19 |
| zaheerm | TomaszD, cool what was it? | 19:19 |
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| woglinde | no was yesterday | 19:20 |
| woglinde | today is 4th | 19:20 |
| woglinde | not 3rd | 19:20 |
| TomaszD | zaheerm, I've tracked the issue of tracker segfaulting down | 19:20 |
| homeasvs | woglinde, yes, I submitted it yesterday and it has been building since then | 19:20 |
| woglinde | homeasvs hm | 19:20 |
| homeasvs | woglinde, (after 3 failed attempts for other reasons) | 19:20 |
| woglinde | let see https://garage.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/extras-cauldron-builds | 19:20 |
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| homeasvs | woglinde, this isn't surprising, the erlang build took 6 days to complete on the extras builder IIRC | 19:20 |
| homeasvs | I just want someone with admin powers to make sure that the build is not stuck | 19:21 |
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| woglinde | hm yes | 19:21 |
| woglinde | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/couchdb_0.10.0-0maemo1/summary.log | 19:21 |
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| woglinde | DocScrutinizer51 but alphaone, stefan and shoragan were involved | 19:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | woglinde: I assumed as much | 19:24 |
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| woglinde | DocScrutinizer51 why you asked? | 19:25 |
| woglinde | *g* | 19:25 |
| woglinde | because of the shitty n900 solution? | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | there was AGPS topic in this chan a few minutes ago | 19:25 |
| woglinde | hm yes but its diffrent from n900 | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | someone asked me about .OM GPS | 19:26 |
| woglinde | I learned it yesterday I think | 19:26 |
| woglinde | ~lart sourceforge | 19:26 |
| * infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking sourceforge's head off | 19:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | 170735 <DocScrutinizer51> I think alphaone or shoragan did the gps implementation | 19:27 |
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| * ShadowJK wonders if anyone at all bothered yet to test and reply to qgil's working gps without internet access method | 19:28 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: pointer? | 19:28 |
| woglinde | ShadowJK ah hm right | 19:28 |
| woglinde | I should try it | 19:28 |
| woglinde | doc was some bug | 19:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ohh' a comment to that notorious bug? | 19:29 |
| ShadowJK | it was crossposted to bmo, tmo and #maemo, at least... | 19:29 |
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| derf | Which bug? | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, I'm not on any of those fulltime | 19:30 |
| derf | No one is. No one sane, anyway. | 19:30 |
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| PBeck | hi | 19:30 |
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| PBeck | is it not possible to set the shell of the user to bash? | 19:30 |
| woglinde | pbeck install bash | 19:31 |
| woglinde | edit passwd | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | heard it might break things | 19:31 |
| PBeck | woglinde: i changed it with chsh -s bash user | 19:31 |
| PBeck | woglinde: i have do that three times und in every case it wont boot after that | 19:31 |
| woglinde | dont know get root and change it | 19:31 |
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| PBeck | *done | 19:31 |
| woglinde | damn | 19:31 |
| PBeck | *and | 19:31 |
| woglinde | router failure again | 19:32 |
| PBeck | i have to reflash that | 19:32 |
| woglinde | bye until few seconds | 19:32 |
| PBeck | know anybody this problem? | 19:32 |
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| woglinde_ | re | 19:33 |
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| PBeck | woglinde: have you changed it? | 19:33 |
| m-work | hi. anyone can help me to instal irssi on nokia n900? | 19:34 |
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| PBeck | i search for a person who have done that ;) | 19:34 |
| PBeck | m-work: activate extras-devel (or testing) and install it via the packetmanager :) | 19:34 |
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| ShadowJK | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=436482&postcount=78 | 19:35 |
| m-work | i activated the extra | 19:35 |
| m-work | but i dont have it on the lis | 19:35 |
| m-work | t | 19:35 |
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| m-work | when i tried to install it with apg get | 19:35 |
| m-work | it gave me an error | 19:35 |
| m-work | unable to lock administration directory | 19:35 |
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| PBeck | m-work: extras is the stable branch - but it's only in devel | 19:36 |
| woglinde_ | PBeck no I am fine with busybox ash | 19:36 |
| PBeck | m-work: the error comes up when you have started the packetmanager gui and apt-get to the same time | 19:37 |
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| m-work | so then i add a new catalog? | 19:37 |
| m-work | wich one is the devel? | 19:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 is hardly suppressing a pavlov reflex | 19:37 | |
| PBeck | m-work: activate extras-devel, apt-get install irssi, deactivate extras-devel | 19:37 |
| PBeck | m-work: one moment | 19:38 |
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| matthew- | irssi is in extras-testing | 19:38 |
| matthew- | not devel ;D | 19:38 |
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| PBeck | http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel <= m-work | 19:39 |
| PBeck | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/i/ <= matthew- | 19:39 |
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| PBeck | huh it's in both | 19:39 |
| Dassu | I can't wai tto get ssh tunnel irssi_proxy to work :) on my n900 which of course isn't arraving | 19:39 |
| Dassu | Imean | 19:40 |
| Dassu | they dont sell n900's here | 19:40 |
| Dassu | they do sell em but they dont deliver | 19:40 |
| Dassu | reason: Nokia is gay | 19:40 |
| m-work | lol | 19:40 |
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| PBeck | m-work: ok testing is enough | 19:40 |
| m-work | n900 got out of stock in like 5 days in my country:) | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | which is a good thing basically | 19:41 |
| PBeck | http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing <= m-work in extras-devel you can get irssi-dev too but thats not necessary | 19:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | as it means meamo will live | 19:41 |
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| Hrww | bye | 19:44 |
| PBeck | DocScrutinizer51: :P | 19:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | jojo | 19:44 |
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| m-work | whats the default sudo password? | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | none | 19:48 |
| Sir_Lancelot | nono | 19:48 |
| Sir_Lancelot | none | 19:48 |
| Sir_Lancelot | but i won't advise extras-devel | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | install rootsh | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | do 'root' | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or 'sudo gainroot' | 19:48 |
| cpscotti | hello there.. anyone with some hildon/gtk experience; which widget is that used on "sharing accounts" (on the phone settings)? Or at least where is that shit source.. | 19:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | -root | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~root | 19:49 |
| infobot | rumour has it, root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account. | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yay | 19:49 |
| woglinde | args, by writing gps-vehicle for navit with liblocation | 19:50 |
| woglinde | its now clear what the gps can doo | 19:50 |
| woglinde | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Using_Location_API | 19:50 |
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| blizzow | ob | 19:56 |
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| ShadowJK | woglinde: nice page | 20:00 |
| woglinde | ShadowJK jupp I discoverd since some times | 20:01 |
| woglinde | but didnt read carfully | 20:01 |
| woglinde | but now I started the work for navit | 20:02 |
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| woglinde | and read it | 20:02 |
| Wolfie | is there an universal IR remote app for Maemo already? | 20:02 |
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| Arkenoi | qtirreco | 20:02 |
| Wolfie | thanks! | 20:02 |
| Arkenoi | irreco as well but i found its ui to be almost unusable | 20:02 |
| Arkenoi | qt version is slower but more usable | 20:02 |
| Wolfie | should it be able to control the ps3, it'd be perfect | 20:03 |
| flux | arkenoi, how is qt-version better? | 20:03 |
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| Arkenoi | flux: i tried original irreco and found it to be very.. hmm.. strange. and it does not auto start lirc server | 20:04 |
| [Tycho] | Hello, Arkenoi. | 20:05 |
| woglinde | ShadowJK intressting would be if you easly swtich btw. AGNSS and GNSS | 20:05 |
| ShadowJK | seems like you can just ask for GNSS instead of AGNSS? | 20:06 |
| Arkenoi | hi | 20:07 |
| ShadowJK | but as the doc mentions, GNSS is essentially same as agnss for some unkno amount of time since last agnss use | 20:08 |
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| philo | hi | 20:09 |
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| destinal | good morning all.. I'm trying to figure out how to use scratchbox2, epecially dynamic the filesystem mapping capabilities, but I'm not seeing much documentation. if anyone has a pointer at where to start, I'd appreciate it. | 20:12 |
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| RST38h | what exactly do you need to do? | 20:16 |
| felipec | destinal: have you checked the lua pathmaps? | 20:16 |
| felipec | destinal: also, there's #scratchbox | 20:17 |
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| LuciusMare | hi | 20:17 |
| destinal | RST38h: I'm trying to crosscompile software that builds through autoconf and I basically just want to override /usr/include, /usr/lib and some other paths with my own while in sb2 so that it can find the right libraries and headers | 20:17 |
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| LuciusMare | can i recieve and send files over IR on n900? petrovich doesnt seem to do that | 20:18 |
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| RST38h | no | 20:19 |
| flux | luciusmare, you cannot, N900 doesn't have an IR port suitable for that | 20:19 |
| mgedmin | LuciusMare, I've been told (here) that the N900 doesn't have IrDA, only CIR | 20:19 |
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| RST38h | destinal: have you considered doing this without changing sb2 setup? | 20:19 |
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| LuciusMare | uh,huh | 20:19 |
| RST38h | after all, autoconf allows you to change these directories via options to configure script | 20:19 |
| LuciusMare | i thought they're all same... >:( | 20:20 |
| felipec | destinal: check for example lua_scripts/pathmaps/simple/00_default.lua | 20:20 |
| destinal | felipec: sounds good .. I'll take a look at that | 20:21 |
| destinal | RST38h: you have a good point regard the configure script options, I may try it both ways, but since scratchbox is designed to be so transparent I thought it would be cool to try making everything look natively there | 20:22 |
| m-work | PBeck : thanks for the help. i managed to install irssi. | 20:22 |
| LuciusMare | thanks | 20:22 |
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| destinal | ie in standard paths etc | 20:22 |
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| felipec | destinal: instead of modifying the current pathmaps it's easier to just copy one, for example I have my own in lua_scripts/pathmaps/felipec | 20:23 |
| RST38h | destinal: just because it is designed transparent, you are not supposed to change its low level setup =) | 20:23 |
| RST38h | the "official" way is to play with configure options | 20:24 |
| PBeck | m-work: nice to hear that :) | 20:24 |
| PBeck | m-work: i use irssi on my n900 too :) | 20:24 |
| felipec | RST38h: sbox2 has no "official" way of using it | 20:24 |
| RST38h | mmm...I guess you have a point :) | 20:24 |
| destinal | although it is good to know what ways are most commonly used | 20:24 |
| felipec | RST38h: the way maemo uses it is just one instance (which is particularily hacky in fact) | 20:24 |
| philo | seriously what is wrong with that one guy ? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39254 | 20:25 |
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| Wolfie | Arkenoi: can qtirreco learn from remotes? | 20:25 |
| felipec | RST38h: but sbox2 is meant to be extensible to do any kind of funky stuff.. I could do for example 'sb2 -t debian-etch make' from my Fedora system | 20:25 |
| Wolfie | i seem to be able to program only existing remote's functionalities in new buttons | 20:25 |
| felipec | anyway, time to go home... laters | 20:26 |
| destinal | felipec: I'm starting to make use of sbox2 to build libsdl based games for the webos operating system on the Palm Pre (over in #webos-internals) in a way our devices are very close cousins. | 20:26 |
| RST38h | ah | 20:26 |
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| RST38h | that is getting more interesting | 20:27 |
| RST38h | in this case you may indeed go under the hood =) | 20:27 |
| felipec | destinal: cool! | 20:27 |
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| PBeck | cehteh: ping | 20:27 |
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| ShadowJK | curious, foreca applet on n810 is location-aware, but not on n900 | 20:28 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: real people use omweather anyway | 20:28 |
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| ShadowJK | omweather doesn't have a supercomputer churning 1sqm resolution weather model of my country | 20:29 |
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| RST38h | Shadow: And Foreca does? | 20:30 |
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| ShadowJK | ya | 20:30 |
| destinal | RST38h: sbox2 has really simplified things for me, reduced the amount of manual modifications to the autoconf stuff to use the cs toolchain etc, but I guess I was daydreaming about being able to download source code and run ./configure && make instead of pointing at alternate header directories, library directories, etc, especially when they'll be the same ones every time | 20:30 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: And weather.com (used by omweather) does not? | 20:30 |
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| ShadowJK | well they probably use it for rendering 3d porn, *shrug* | 20:30 |
| matthew- | HMMM, if i've got a blackberry pin, could I somehow use blackberry messanger on e900 ? | 20:30 |
| matthew- | or port it ? | 20:30 |
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| RST38h | no | 20:31 |
| RST38h | and it is n900 | 20:31 |
| matthew- | yeah, n900 | 20:31 |
| RST38h | destinal: If you are compiling for a non-Maemo device, you will probably have to reconfigure sb2 a little bit, once | 20:31 |
| RST38h | destinal: but after that, I do not see why you would have to do extra stuff on each package | 20:32 |
| destinal | RST38h: but for maemo, just ./configure && make on the host system is a common practice, then? | 20:33 |
| destinal | in sb2? | 20:33 |
| RST38h | yea | 20:33 |
| destinal | cool | 20:33 |
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| lardman | evening all | 20:35 |
| RST38h | ehlo lardman, how are things? | 20:36 |
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| ShadowJK | rst38h: The foreca web inteerface recognizes 3 places nearby me, at 30, 25 and 25km distance. However, since I'm fairly near the sea (50km), and those places are more inland, closer to sea, and one is not in the flat region I'm in, but in hillier are, neither match the weather nicely. As for weather.com, closest place I could find was about 40km away | 20:36 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: tried yr.no? | 20:37 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: So, no doughnut either way, foreca or omweather? | 20:37 |
| SpeedEvil | I've found that for me the formats are very good. | 20:37 |
| SpeedEvil | forcasts | 20:37 |
| * RST38h thinks ShadowJK has to move =) | 20:37 | |
| SpeedEvil | I am sort of hacking up a wget/awk/gnuplot weather thingy. | 20:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is very, very silly. | 20:38 |
| RST38h | oh | 20:38 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h: ah but the foreca applet on n810 seems to get different data than on web :-) | 20:38 |
| lardman | hi RST38h, still busy, you? | 20:38 |
| ShadowJK | but I still haven't checked all possibilities, whether it just picked the closest of offered places | 20:38 |
| RST38h | lardman: trying hard to avoid work, watching 2005 season of DrWho =) | 20:39 |
| SpeedEvil | And bugger - now forecast snow that was going to miss me is going to hit. | 20:39 |
| lardman | RST38h: :) | 20:39 |
| SpeedEvil | ~10mm over the next 2 days. | 20:39 |
| RST38h | Got a (horror) paper book to read, too | 20:40 |
| SpeedEvil | (10kg/m^3 of snow - not 10mm) | 20:40 |
| SpeedEvil | m^2 | 20:40 |
| RST38h | actually feels better than an ebook, more comfortable! | 20:40 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: have you heard of fbreader? | 20:40 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: it's quite good. | 20:40 |
| Sir_Lancelot | http://n900.aguilarj.com/?p=256&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter | 20:40 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Me? Of course not. | 20:40 |
| * RST38h has not heard of fbreader | 20:40 | |
| Sir_Lancelot | seeems like it's possible to change the menu layout on N900 | 20:40 |
| lardman | bloody cold here for England | 20:40 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: though I'd quite like tap-to-turn. (based on accelerometer) | 20:41 |
| RST38h | lardman: how bloody? | 20:41 |
| lardman | was -6C this at 111 this morning | 20:41 |
| lardman | s/111/11 | 20:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | -3Cish now. | 20:41 |
| RST38h | lardman: I just took a 2.5hr walk through the city at -20oC | 20:41 |
| lardman | well I did say England ;) | 20:41 |
| Sir_Lancelot | http://translate.google.pt/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fn900.aguilarj.com%2F%3Fp%3D256%26utm_source%3Dtwitterfeed%26utm_medium%3Dtwitter&sl=pt&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8 | 20:41 |
| RST38h | Ah =) | 20:41 |
| lardman | -20C though, nasty | 20:42 |
| RST38h | 'cause -6C isn't very cold | 20:42 |
| RST38h | lardman: actually, feels nice, dry, no wind, snow everywhere | 20:42 |
| lardman | feels bloody cold to me! :) | 20:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's not. | 20:42 |
| RST38h | lardman: actually wind+humidity make -6C worse | 20:42 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: there is a very, very easy way of getting aclimated to it, and having it feeling much warmer out. | 20:42 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: Turn heating off. | 20:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Also saves lots of money! | 20:43 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: I'll soon drop to ambient then as my wife will kill me | 20:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Think of the savings on food then! | 20:43 |
| lardman | lol | 20:43 |
| RST38h | effective budget management! | 20:43 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: can fbreader do URLs? | 20:43 |
| ShadowJK | rst38h: I checked the 5 closest places that foreca's webinterface can find, and none of them matched the data it gave me for my gps location. I guess it's running some sort of model for entire country, with a resolution better than 20 sqkm | 20:43 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: No. | 20:43 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 20:43 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: where are you? | 20:44 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: weather models are way weirder than that | 20:44 |
| ShadowJK | .fi | 20:44 |
| matthew- | Damn, the guy uses Bloomberg Anywhere on his n900. | 20:44 |
| lardman | ShadowJK: where are you? | 20:44 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: And given your closeness to the sea, they may just lie, period | 20:44 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: look at yr.no | 20:44 |
| matthew- | But he didnt reply for a week | 20:44 |
| matthew- | to say how did he do it. | 20:44 |
| SpeedEvil | I've found it very accurate. | 20:44 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: not so great for me | 20:45 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 20:45 |
| lardman | http://xcweather.co.uk/ is good, and has an iPhone web page too ;) | 20:45 |
| SpeedEvil | YWMV. | 20:45 |
| SpeedEvil | What we need is weather@home | 20:45 |
| lardman | :) | 20:45 |
| lardman | Anyone know how the iPhone gesture layer is used from Javascript? | 20:46 |
| ShadowJK | I'm about 25km from a "town" with population 4000, which foreca does know of :P | 20:46 |
| lardman | ShadowJK: yeah, but where? | 20:46 |
| red | anyone bought any screen/case protectors for N900? | 20:47 |
| ShadowJK | 40ish km inland from Kokkola, Finland | 20:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | red: yes | 20:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | red: I got http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190353399122&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT | 20:48 |
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| lardman | ShadowJK: kruunupyy not have a weather station? | 20:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | red: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Accessories | 20:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Nobody other than me seems to ahve reviewed one | 20:50 |
| ShadowJK | yes. it's about halfway between me and kokkola :) | 20:50 |
| lardman | so not good enough? | 20:50 |
| lardman | wow, is cold where you are anyway, ~0F | 20:51 |
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| ShadowJK | lardman: we'll see, foreca-efkk seems to forecast -15..-16 tomorrow, foreca-gps says -20 :) | 20:53 |
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| Xisdibik | -20C ShadowJK ? | 20:53 |
| lardman | foreca never worked well for me | 20:53 |
| RST38h | hmm | 20:53 |
| ShadowJK | xisdibik: yeah | 20:53 |
| lardman | though supposedly snow tomorrow afternoon, cool | 20:54 |
| Xisdibik | ShadowJK: thats a we bit chilly :). its about 14C here ;) | 20:54 |
| ShadowJK | hehe | 20:54 |
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| ShadowJK | oh wow, I clicked on the applet, and it opened web browser with: | 20:55 |
| Xisdibik | Ill be in Japan in 2 days though, and its supposed to be about 6-9C | 20:55 |
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| lardman | ~curse Google for immense crapness | 20:55 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Google for immense crapness ! | 20:55 |
| Xisdibik | lol lardman | 20:55 |
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| ShadowJK | ...foreca.com/?lon=xx.xxxx&lat=xx.xxx&name=foo type url | 20:56 |
| lardman | While "airfields near Kokkola, finland" gives me, airfields; "airfields near Bath, UK" gives me bloody taxi firms | 20:56 |
| matthew- | any1 heading for CES on wednesday from UK ? | 20:56 |
| ShadowJK | lardman: lol | 20:57 |
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| ShadowJK | hey, do those taxi firms show up on http://aprs.fi too? | 20:57 |
| lardman | craptastic | 20:57 |
| lardman | bloody taxi firms | 20:58 |
| lardman | and bloody google | 20:58 |
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| lardman | hmm, your neighbourhood Finnish airport had meteo data, but mine don't | 20:59 |
| papo | hm, I checked the option "Update automatically" in the clock settings, yet my clock is completely wrong | 20:59 |
| papo | or rather, if I set a wrong time and enable the automatic update afterwards, the time does not get adjusted | 20:59 |
| ShadowJK | that yr.no thing is cool too, it has maps | 21:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: and xml | 21:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also gribs - but most people won't care. | 21:02 |
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| corecode | does it make sense to get a screen protector? | 21:06 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 21:06 |
| corecode | phone case? | 21:06 |
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| dnaumov | I have a zagg invisibleshield and its great | 21:07 |
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| dnaumov | it seems to be nicely resistant to dirt from pocket and fingerprints... contrary to the n900 we have at work | 21:07 |
| dnaumov | which doesnt have a protective screen | 21:07 |
| PBeck | dnaumov: a complete body kit? | 21:08 |
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| evo | hello, I just finished my first porting to maemo, but I think the app must be fixed to work on maemo (some parts of the GUI are not shown) | 21:09 |
| corecode | does full body coverage mean "also covers the back"? | 21:09 |
| dnaumov | PBeck: no, just for the front screen | 21:09 |
| PBeck | dnaumov: ah ok - knows anybody exim? | 21:09 |
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| evo | http://people.debian.org/~evo/upload/maemo if someone wants to try it | 21:09 |
| dnaumov | evo: so in other words, you havent finished your first porting | 21:09 |
| PBeck | dnaumov: fit it exactly? | 21:09 |
| dnaumov | ;) | 21:09 |
| dnaumov | PBeck: yes | 21:09 |
| corecode | okay, lifetime guarantee | 21:10 |
| corecode | that's good | 21:10 |
| evo | dnaumov: you're right, I was hoping to receive some suggestions about it, I'm not a QT expert | 21:10 |
| RST38h | dnaumov: How do you apply this thing without leaving bubbles? | 21:10 |
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| dnaumov | RST38h: it comes with a liquid you apply to both sides of the protective screen with a sponge that also comes with it | 21:11 |
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| RST38h | dnaumov: interesting! | 21:11 |
| dnaumov | RST38h: you then apply the screen and use a credit card to get rid of bubbles | 21:11 |
| * RST38h is getting his in a few days | 21:11 | |
| dnaumov | RST38h: some microbubbles remain, but they dissapear in about a day | 21:11 |
| RST38h | It is a DDP device though, reeeeally scared that the LCD will have dead pixels | 21:12 |
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| dnaumov | RST38h: after having a complete disaster with a protective screen for my fiance's PSP, I was pleasantly surprised with this one | 21:12 |
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| corecode | mm hong kong? | 21:13 |
| RST38h | dnaumov: Well, my experience with the n810 protective film also wasn't stellar | 21:13 |
| corecode | i wonder where else to buy it | 21:13 |
| N900evil | ebay! | 21:13 |
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| corecode | yea, hong kong :) | 21:13 |
| dnaumov | evo: well, the screenshot doesnt do much explaining of what this app actually IS :) | 21:13 |
| evo | dnaumov: it's a railway live traffic monitor tool, you choose the train number (like 2563) and it tells you where that train is | 21:14 |
| PBeck | hum i think in the forum are more users then on the mailinglist? | 21:14 |
| RST38h | dnaumov: says "transit stops" | 21:14 |
| * RST38h guessed right | 21:15 | |
| dnaumov | RST38h: the protective screen for the PSP I had was horrible, I ended up getting rid of it after 3 days, because it just made the thing barely useful, huge bubbles everywhere | 21:15 |
| RST38h | well in the case of n810, the film was ok, but the n810 screen design is...mghm.. | 21:16 |
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| Wolfie | i have an invisible shield for my n900 and it's pretty great | 21:16 |
| dnaumov | yep | 21:16 |
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| jaem_n900 | morning | 21:16 |
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| Wolfie | swipe requires a bit more touch, and the glare is a bit different (not more - just different). | 21:17 |
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| Wolfie | I just got some small speck under the shield, so i think i need to reattach the shield someday | 21:17 |
| jaem_n900 | which Bugzilla category would I file a bug about titlebar rendering? | 21:17 |
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| * RST38h moos at wazd | 21:18 | |
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| toggles_w | another vote for the zagg, it's pretty awesome shield, very resitant to crap and scratch and sticks well, requires a little more pressure for swipe, but worth it for what it does | 21:20 |
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| Wolfie | i also find that the shield gets dirtier than the screen itself, but that's pretty much a non-issue, since you can rub the shield pretty harshly | 21:22 |
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| GAN900 | I can't believe how good Nokia is at crippling virtual input. | 21:22 |
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| jaem_n900 | oh? | 21:22 |
| loft306 | heheh | 21:23 |
| Mozillion | hrm.. decoders-support 0.2 just wrecked the media stuff... tracker seems to be nonresponsive | 21:23 |
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| matthew- | And I still cant play any x264's on my n900.... | 21:25 |
| matthew- | 'not supported format' | 21:25 |
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| mtnbkr | Mozillion: is that why my built-in media play no longer sees ANY of my .oggs nor ANY of the videos (even the demos that came with my n900) after I just updated the decoders ? | 21:28 |
| Mozillion | my filemanager halts when I open a dir with media files | 21:28 |
| evo | Mozillion: sorry for OT .. you were on #debian-devel many years ago? | 21:28 |
| mtnbkr | hmmm lemme check that too | 21:28 |
| Mozillion | evo: hey... I remember you too.. I am still | 21:29 |
| evo | Mozillion: it's my fault then, I go there not often like I used to do :) | 21:29 |
| Mozillion | my IRC proxy does it | 21:29 |
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| Mozillion | mtnbkr: I'm trying to go to 0.3 (0.2 is the one that just entered extras-testing) | 21:30 |
| Mozillion | somehow the maemo.org packages page notes 0.2 as being cancelled for promotion | 21:30 |
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| papo | hrm this "update automatically" clock setting does not seem to do anything | 21:32 |
| Mozillion | papo: indeed, I noticed this too | 21:32 |
| mtnbkr | Mozillion: FYI... after a shutdown and then startup, Media Player now sees (and can play) my .oggs | 21:32 |
| Mozillion | maybe I should just install openntpd | 21:32 |
| Mozillion | mtnbkr: ah ok | 21:33 |
| papo | hrm | 21:33 |
| papo | today I had my first business day with my N900 | 21:33 |
| Mozillion | mtnbkr: already suspected something like this... but still, an update should block track or whatever | 21:33 |
| papo | I have to admit that I like the device but there's really quite some bugs :( | 21:33 |
| Mozillion | my god.. repository.maemo.org is very slow too | 21:35 |
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| mtnbkr | papo: I have had mine since nov 30th and love it, but there are some things I would also LOVE to see addressed. | 21:35 |
| Mozillion | same here | 21:35 |
| Mozillion | and same date ) | 21:35 |
| Mozillion | :)* | 21:35 |
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| mtnbkr | Mozillion: *.maemo.org has been slower than molasses in January since I first checked it out back in Nov | 21:36 |
| Mozillion | yeah | 21:36 |
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| mtnbkr | Mozillion: haha funny thing... for me to find out just now I had to ls -la on a photo that my web cam shot when it arrived... hehe I sent that photo to a bunch of friends who all knew I was waiting on my N900 - "FedEx-is-here.jpg" | 21:37 |
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| papo | mtnbkr: Hm yes, I'm putting some hope on the firmware, I hope I won't get disappointed :-/ | 21:38 |
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| mtnbkr | can't believe I have had this for a month already. wow | 21:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | papo: I have had mine since nov 30th and love it, but there are some things I would also LOVE to see addressed. | 21:38 |
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| xorAxAx | 20:27:14 -!- Irssi: New peak in #maemo@freenode : 514 | 21:39 |
| mtnbkr | papo: I could be wrong, but I have this link that supposedly shows the FIXES for the upcming firmware update: https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&classification=Maemo+Official+Applications&classification=Maemo+Official+Platform&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywo | 21:39 |
| mtnbkr | rds=&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=CLOSED&resolution=FIXED&rep_platform=N900&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=2009-11-01&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0= | 21:39 |
| jaska | zomg url | 21:39 |
| mtnbkr | damn sorry... | 21:39 |
| RST38h | that was not a good idea | 21:39 |
| adeus | mamma mia what a link | 21:39 |
| Mozillion | tinyurl.com? | 21:39 |
| Mozillion | or whatever service | 21:39 |
| mtnbkr | yeah really. I just cut and pasted... didn;t realize it was that big... one sec... | 21:39 |
| papo | mtnbkr: Hm yes, I just closed the bug report about the automatic clock thing, don't think it was flagged resolved | 21:40 |
| RevdKathy | I'm not sure what the fuss is with the firmware upgrade: having read the bugfix list, I'm not expecting it to make much difference to me | 21:40 |
| mtnbkr | RevdKathy: I agree | 21:40 |
| papo | mtnbkr: #5810 | 21:40 |
| SpeedEvil | The one moderately annoying bug for me looks likely not to make it in | 21:41 |
| RevdKathy | If this were symbian and I had to send the device back to the nokia centre to upgrade, I wouldn't bother | 21:41 |
| Mozillion | awwwww.. it almost played an .m4v | 21:41 |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6584 | 21:41 |
| povbot` | Bug 6584: GPS geotagged pictures truncate precision of GPS reading (0 decimal places) | 21:41 |
| mtnbkr | Mozillion: hmmm seems you need to be "logged in" to bugs.maemo.org so the tinyurl link I just created and tested didn't work... I get permission denied. :( | 21:41 |
| mtnbkr | sorry | 21:41 |
| papo | RevdKathy: They reportedly fixed exchange sync, that's going to be a plus for me | 21:41 |
| mtnbkr | I wonder when the Nokia PC Suite will #1: support LINUX and #2 support the N900 properly. | 21:42 |
| RevdKathy | I don't - I use my revdkathy mail in modest. And the diary I WANT to synch to is groupwise, so no chance of that | 21:42 |
| RevdKathy | MfE won't affect me | 21:42 |
| RevdKathy | I'm more interested in the ovi store -and not VERY interested in that | 21:43 |
| RevdKathy | I;m glad it will fix bugs for other people - that's great. But it won't affect me | 21:43 |
| papo | hm yes | 21:43 |
| PBeck | dnaumov: have you experience with different screen protectors? | 21:43 |
| RevdKathy | More interested in when certain things will get to extras or testing :) | 21:44 |
| dnaumov | PBeck: a few, but mostly noname ones I couldnt specify | 21:44 |
| RevdKathy | tweakr, shepherd - they will affect me | 21:44 |
| mtnbkr | ringtone per contact would be nice, ability to have different notification tones for differnt types of incoming (SMS, IM, email) and perhaps even different tone for SMS/IM/mail from specific people. but I KNOW that is not on the "FIXED" list | 21:44 |
| papo | RevdKathy: Other problems I notices are skype contacts which are online on my notebook have the status offline, troubles with the GPS, and today I noticed that cover.jpg does not work properly either | 21:45 |
| papo | oh and the headphones are just gross | 21:45 |
| mtnbkr | anyone else experience that subfolders of INBOX on an imap server don't show up in the mail app on N900/maemo5? | 21:45 |
| RevdKathy | I never use GPS - another bit I don't use. I have very little skype - but would love shepherd to enable it autimatically on wifi | 21:46 |
| papo | oh yes I read about shepherd | 21:46 |
| mtnbkr | papo: heh at least they stay in my ears when I move (unlike the stupid iPhone earphones) | 21:46 |
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| PBeck | dnaumov: have you read about exim? | 21:47 |
| papo | RevdKathy: last time I checked there was no public (pre-)release yet... shepherd is something I'm really looking forward to | 21:47 |
| papo | mtnbkr: Hm well I can just replace the headphones so no problems there | 21:48 |
| RevdKathy | no, it's still in devel, I think. I'm more excited about that and a few other community porjects than the firmware | 21:49 |
| RevdKathy | @papo I don't think Nokia are going to be the people who make this awesome gor me | 21:49 |
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| papo | RevdKathy: gor? | 21:49 |
| * SpeedEvil abducts RevdKathy and places her on a counter-earth. | 21:49 | |
| * SpeedEvil hopes RevdKathy can put up with really long monologues. | 21:50 | |
| RevdKathy | Sppedevil - i couldn't be more scary than the strange environments in my head! | 21:50 |
| frals | time to install my dev enviroment on the gfs computer | 21:50 |
| RevdKathy | Damn - I shouldn't do two things at once - mytyping goes to hell | 21:50 |
| frals | thank god i got her a proper keyboard for christmas! | 21:50 |
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| RevdKathy | How goes the MMS, frals? | 21:51 |
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| frals | excellent, its fully working for me.. except minor details like delivery reports, but who needs them anyway? ;-) | 21:51 |
| * RevdKathy can recite very long monologues | 21:51 | |
| frals | and another guy on talk managed to receive MMS just fine with my app, so I guess it works :D | 21:52 |
| frals | ive had some downloads of my package but none commented anything yet thou | 21:52 |
| frals | should probably create a thread asking for feedback at some point | 21:53 |
| GAN900 | frals, you're a sick, sick man. | 21:53 |
| RevdKathy | frals - how dependent is it on carrier? Will it work cross-platform, cross-nation? And if it's not using WAP. what do the carriers think is happening? | 21:53 |
| RevdKathy | I found myself wondering if it comes out of the dataplan, frals. | 21:53 |
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| RevdKathy | My plan has free sms, loads of free minutes and 500mb of data - but I pay for every single MMS | 21:53 |
| frals | RevdKathy: it should be counted as MMS as its submitted just like an MMS message | 21:54 |
| RevdKathy | what does the bill think I'm doing? MMS? | 21:54 |
| * Arkenoi bets i have most shitty plan of us all: no sms, no mms, no data and no minutes included. and i pay for incoming calls. | 21:55 | |
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| frals | it should work crossnation as the guy who got receiving to work is from .pl and im in .se :) | 21:55 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: the real question is WHY | 21:55 |
| frals | just need to make the configuration easier so more people can get it working as MMS usually "just works" on other phones | 21:56 |
| Arkenoi | rst38h: it is called "in-network roaming", you know. russian chimaera. | 21:56 |
| * RevdKathy kisses frals | 21:56 | |
| * RevdKathy loves things that "just work" | 21:56 | |
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| RST38h | Arkenoi: The real question is still WHY | 21:57 |
| frals | GAN900: and I take great pride in the fact I am ;-) | 21:57 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: $5 buy you a fresh MTS number | 21:58 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, because i want to keep my mobile number which is 10+ years old | 21:58 |
| Arkenoi | 12, actually | 21:58 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Keep it for those visits to SpB, buy a new one for MSK | 21:58 |
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| yuizy | what is the height of the top bar?q | 21:59 |
| yuizy | -q | 21:59 |
| RST38h | 64? | 21:59 |
| Arkenoi | it is the only my contact known to many people. and there is no sms forwarding in russian cellular networks (dunno why, ukrainians do that quite well) | 21:59 |
| N900evil | dual sim would be so cool | 22:00 |
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| RST38h | Arkenoi: They will have to memorize your new number, that's all | 22:00 |
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| RST38h | things change. | 22:00 |
| RST38h | <sleep> | 22:00 |
| woglinde | nite rst | 22:01 |
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| Arkenoi | rst38h: some of them call or write me once a few years | 22:01 |
| Arkenoi | and it is still important to me | 22:01 |
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| Arkenoi | and some of them do change their numbers so i cannot contact them right now | 22:01 |
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| RevdKathy | I'm with Arkenoi. I paid good money for a 'memorable number' and have kept it for years | 22:03 |
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| Arkenoi | wow, tower toppler! | 22:05 |
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| papo | hm does the "automatic update" clock setting work for someone in here? | 22:11 |
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| flux | funny how after a reboot / has reclaimed 26 megabytes of more space | 22:11 |
| barbacha | 'evening all | 22:11 |
| flux | and lsof | grep deleted showed nothing | 22:11 |
| barbacha | as a happy new owner of a n900, I'm looking for an alternative to the default mail client, which is quite too simple and mostly lags a lot with large inboxes | 22:11 |
| barbacha | I saw a port of claws for maemo but it does not seem to be available on the n900. Is there a way to install it and/or other application to suggest ? | 22:12 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 wonders what lsof l grep deleted might shaow anyway | 22:12 | |
| konttori | flux: that's one of the reasons for PR1.0.1 release | 22:13 |
| Arkenoi | there is claws for n900 | 22:14 |
| flux | konttori, so there's a bug about it? | 22:14 |
| konttori | you can have multiple instances of gtk icon cache reserved by kernel. | 22:14 |
| Arkenoi | if you do not see it you probably haven't enable appropriate repository | 22:14 |
| konttori | flux: and it's solved | 22:14 |
| Arkenoi | enabled even | 22:14 |
| flux | konttori, any keywords for bug search? | 22:14 |
| konttori | nope. gtk icon cache? | 22:14 |
| barbacha | akiniemi: in what repository is it ? | 22:15 |
| barbacha | i enabled extra, but it dosn't show up | 22:15 |
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| ShadowJK | I think claws-mail is in extras-devel. [Insert standard warnings and disclaimers about using extras-devel] | 22:22 |
| villager | nah, pretty sure I got it from extras-testing | 22:22 |
| ShadowJK | hm :) | 22:22 |
| villager | may not be the newest version though | 22:22 |
| ShadowJK | same disclaimer applies ;) | 22:22 |
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| flux | ah, lsof | grep deleted is an incomplete diagnostics, because there exists a non-deleted file in place of the deleted one | 22:23 |
| flux | I wonder if that's fixable.. it could compare the inode numbers perhaps? | 22:23 |
| * barbacha checks extra-testing | 22:24 | |
| Ceron | http://i.imgur.com/JmRmb.jpg READ THIS | 22:24 |
| * Arkenoi wonders why email interactions are not shown in conversations | 22:24 | |
| Arkenoi | quite illogical | 22:24 |
| flux | konttori, wouldn't it be true that if I'm being hit by that bug, I should be able to safely start the system, because the capacity will be free at next startup? | 22:26 |
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| konttori | yes | 22:26 |
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| konfoo | any nokia folks around who can point me to where to purchase N900s in bulk? | 22:28 |
| woglinde | bulk? | 22:28 |
| woglinde | what country is that? | 22:28 |
| konfoo | 5 phones for dev/test | 22:29 |
| ifreq_ | none | 22:29 |
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| GAN900 | konfoo, not exactly bulk. | 22:29 |
| GAN900 | ko | 22:29 |
| GAN900 | konfoo, but you might want to talk to Forum Nokia. | 22:29 |
| konfoo | yeah i dealt with quim the last time but ive lost his email | 22:30 |
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| GAN900 | Not REALLY Quim's job, Forum Nokia should be able to help. | 22:31 |
| konfoo | uhhuh. | 22:32 |
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| ShadowJK | Should be relatively easy to find him on the forums, etc | 22:37 |
| konfoo | ShadowJK: yup but he has turned off his private messaging ;) | 22:38 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 22:38 |
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| konfoo | ah found his email, nm | 22:41 |
| jebba | ah, so nice to do an apt-get update in 2s now :) | 22:42 |
| jebba | now, what was I working on again? Hmm. | 22:42 |
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| |R | decoders-support now has ogg vorbis, doesn't that conflict with the ogg-support package? | 22:46 |
| Jaffa | konfoo: qgil's job is "Open source advocate". Not really relevant to his job, as GAN900 says. If there's a publicity angle, perhaps Peter Schneider would be better. However, if it's low-profile, Forum Nokia | 22:46 |
| Jaffa | |R: Doesn't it just depends on the ogg-support package? | 22:46 |
| |R | jebba: ah uh oh maybe, i installed it afterward, didn't check 2 sec :P | 22:46 |
| woglinde | ~seen tomaszd | 22:46 |
| infobot | tomaszd <n=tom@unaffiliated/tomaszd> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3h 26m 31s ago, saying: 'zaheerm, I've tracked the issue of tracker segfaulting down'. | 22:46 |
| |R | Jaffa: yep, you're right (sorry, used wrong nick above) | 22:47 |
| jebba | |R meant jaffa? heh | 22:47 |
| |R | :P | 22:47 |
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| |R | Jaffa: the weird thing is if i install decoders-support or mod-support i loose all the media in the player or photo ... | 22:54 |
| |R | even after a reboot where i see the tracker indexing in to | 22:55 |
| |R | top | 22:55 |
| Jaffa | |R: It's just Tracker doing a full reindex AIUI | 22:55 |
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| |R | Jaffa: i'll wait a bit more and see if it comes back | 22:55 |
| |R | as during the install sometimes i see the list of files it finds, and some other times i see : | 22:56 |
| |R | Could not get files by MIME type, Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken. | 22:56 |
| |R | (that's apt-get over ssh) | 22:57 |
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| mkargar | hello | 23:05 |
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| jebba | hey | 23:09 |
| RevdKathy | 'Night all | 23:10 |
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| *** pierlux has joined #maemo | 23:13 | |
| lardman | hi pierlux | 23:13 |
| pierlux | hi, I am the maintainer of libchamplain and I would like to be able to update the libchamplain packages in extra-devel myself :) (to releve lardman from the burden hehe) | 23:13 |
| lardman | :) | 23:13 |
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| lardman | Anyone know how one registers to be able to upload? | 23:14 |
| lardman | I asked X-Fade | 23:14 |
| lardman | speaking of which, X-Fade, are you about? | 23:14 |
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| lardman | But if not, is there an official form to fill in on e.g. Garage? | 23:15 |
| jebba | lardman: see: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras-devel | 23:15 |
| lardman | cheers jebba | 23:16 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | how can I put a file inside .desktop folder, on N900? | 23:16 |
| Sir_Lancelot | :S | 23:16 |
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| lardman | pierlux: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php?target=invitation_request | 23:16 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | I was on n900wallpapers | 23:17 |
| Sir_Lancelot | but in order to make all 4 wallpapers to work simultaneuously | 23:17 |
| Sir_Lancelot | I need to put a html file inside .desktop folder | 23:17 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | but with N900 file manager, I can't reah that folder.. | 23:18 |
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| lardman | Sir_Lancelot: x-term | 23:18 |
| Sir_Lancelot | hum?? | 23:18 |
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| lardman | use the terminal | 23:18 |
| flux | I wonder if cifs/smbfs-support was left out of n900 just to potentially reduce the work on customer support | 23:19 |
| flux | fortunately they left in nfs ;) | 23:19 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | lardman I don't know linux comands to make that :( | 23:20 |
| MohammadAG | make what Sir_Lancelot ? | 23:20 |
| lbt | tigert: o/ | 23:20 |
| Sir_Lancelot | I need to move a file from documents folder into the .desktop folder | 23:21 |
| Sir_Lancelot | it's a html file | 23:21 |
| lbt | Sir_Lancelot: "mv" ? | 23:21 |
| MohammadAG | mv <filename> <destination> | 23:21 |
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| mkargar | i wnat run kbluetooth,but,i recieve this error:kbluetooth: error while loading shared libraries: libknotificationitem-1.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 23:22 |
| MohammadAG | like mv test.html <path containing .desktop folder>/.desktop | 23:22 |
| mkargar | i reinstall kdelibs,but,it not solved! | 23:23 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | I'm giving it a try | 23:23 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | thanks | 23:23 |
| MohammadAG | np | 23:23 |
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| MohammadAG | suppose I have a package and I want to upload it to the repositories | 23:23 |
| mkargar | whats my problem? | 23:23 |
| flux | sir_lancelot, cd and ls should help you around the filesystem | 23:23 |
| MohammadAG | where do i register? | 23:23 |
| flux | sir_lancelot, pwd will tell you the current directory, if it doesn't show it otherwise | 23:23 |
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| tigert | lbt: o/ | 23:24 |
| Sir_Lancelot | thanks | 23:24 |
| Sir_Lancelot | very usefull tips | 23:24 |
| flux | sir_lancelot, and "cd .." will move back to the higher level in hierarchy | 23:24 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | thank you guys | 23:24 |
| MohammadAG | mkargar, missing library | 23:24 |
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| MohammadAG | cd returns you to the 'default' one | 23:24 |
| MohammadAG | cd without parametres that is | 23:24 |
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| lbt | tigert: so where did we meet in Barcelona? ;) | 23:25 |
| mkargar | MohammadAG:excuse me for bad post! | 23:25 |
| tigert | lbt: you were the guy talking about mer? | 23:25 |
| MohammadAG | so can anyone help me? | 23:25 |
| lbt | yep | 23:26 |
| tigert | is there a photo of you in the net? | 23:26 |
| lbt | yep | 23:26 |
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| lbt | http://www.flickr.com/photos/96141280@N00/4165448443/ | 23:26 |
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| tigert | well | 23:27 |
| tigert | I think I took that photo :) | 23:27 |
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| tigert | that would be a "there" | 23:27 |
| lbt | :D | 23:27 |
| * timeless lands in HEL | 23:27 | |
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| tigert | as in http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/4161530652/ | 23:27 |
| jaska | +L | 23:27 |
| tigert | :) | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | welcome back, don't rely on the trains? | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:27 |
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| tigert | lbt: and you took this one | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: was it holiday inn you were at last? | 23:27 |
| tigert | so, heh. :D | 23:27 |
| lbt | excellent | 23:27 |
| timeless | the geniouses here decided to stick all baggage on one carousel (there are three) | 23:27 |
| timeless | that overloaded the belt | 23:27 |
| timeless | so they hit emergency stop | 23:28 |
| lbt | timeless: get off the carousel | 23:28 |
| tigert | lbt: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/4158771496/ | 23:28 |
| timeless | and now we get to wait for someone to come from the other side of the termknal | 23:28 |
| timeless | s/kna/ina/ | 23:28 |
| infobot | timeless meant: and now we get to wait for someone to come from the other side of the terminal | 23:28 |
| tigert | timeless: blame that on barona | 23:28 |
| timeless | barona? | 23:28 |
| tigert | baggage handling outsourced to barona, inc. | 23:29 |
| tigert | yay | 23:29 |
| tigert | joy etc | 23:29 |
| tigert | anyway, now its time to sleep a bit | 23:29 |
| tigert | laters! | 23:29 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/domestic-news/general/9349-runaway-carriages-plough-into-hotel-in-central-helsinki-.html | 23:29 |
| lbt | I like that hotel!! | 23:30 |
| tigert | Stskeeps: trains run fine now I heard | 23:30 |
| lbt | they've got it in for me :( | 23:30 |
| tigert | the fixed that crash damage a friend said | 23:30 |
| tigert | but the holiday inn got hurt :( | 23:30 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | even on x-tem I can't find the desktop folder.. | 23:31 |
| Sir_Lancelot | :S | 23:31 |
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| lardman | re | 23:31 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | I can't go into home folder... | 23:31 |
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| lardman | "cd ~" | 23:34 |
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| MohammadAG | Sir_Lancelot, or cd /home/user/MyDocs | 23:35 |
| Sir_Lancelot | hum? | 23:35 |
| Sir_Lancelot | done! | 23:35 |
| Sir_Lancelot | thkx | 23:35 |
| MohammadAG | you can use cd ~, cd (without anything) or cd /home/user/MyDocs | 23:35 |
| MohammadAG | :) | 23:35 |
| MohammadAG | tab will help btw | 23:36 |
| Sir_Lancelot | cd~didn't work... | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | to complete filename and directory names | 23:36 |
| Sir_Lancelot | wonder why... | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | space | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | cd ~ | 23:36 |
| Sir_Lancelot | ahhhhh | 23:36 |
| lardman | cd /home/user == cd ~ of course ;) | 23:36 |
| Sir_Lancelot | I didn't put the space.. | 23:36 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | :P | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | lardman, do you know how to up a package to extras-devel? | 23:37 |
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| lardman | yes | 23:37 |
| lardman | what are you trying to package? | 23:38 |
| MohammadAG | I have the deb file ready | 23:38 |
| MohammadAG | nano | 23:38 |
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| MohammadAG | and it's working on my N900 | 23:38 |
| lardman | you need the .dsc, .source and .tar.gz | 23:38 |
| lardman | as uploads have to be source | 23:38 |
| MohammadAG | .source? | 23:38 |
| lardman | unless you upload to non-free, though as nano is free that seems pointless | 23:39 |
| lardman | yeah | 23:39 |
| MohammadAG | got the .dsc and .tar.gz | 23:39 |
| lardman | comes from "dpkg-buildpackage -sa -S" | 23:39 |
| woglinde | MohammadAG please read developer documentation | 23:39 |
| lardman | you sure nano isn't already in extras-*...? | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | already looked for it | 23:40 |
| woglinde | nano is | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | as I hate vim | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | woglinde, where? | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | I have extras, extras-testing and -devel | 23:41 |
| woglinde | slow slow mameo.org | 23:41 |
| woglinde | http://maemo.org/packages/view/nano/ | 23:41 |
| woglinde | maybee he forgot to promote | 23:41 |
| MohammadAG | should be in devel | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | oh well, I'll just download the deb and install it through terminal | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | should update the build I did | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | thanks anyways lardman :) | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | and woglinde | 23:42 |
| Sir_Lancelot | where the hell is .desktop folder on N900? | 23:43 |
| Sir_Lancelot | I can't find it... | 23:43 |
| Sir_Lancelot | :( | 23:43 |
| Sir_Lancelot | isn't there a "search" for files and folders on N900? | 23:43 |
| Laiska | Does not exist by default I think? | 23:44 |
| MohammadAG | Sir_Lancelot, gpe-filemanager would help you | 23:45 |
| MohammadAG | apt-get install gpe-filemanager | 23:45 |
| Laiska | I ment that the folder .desktop does not exist by default | 23:46 |
| MohammadAG | Laiska, I know :) | 23:46 |
| MohammadAG | I just said it'd help him locate directories | 23:46 |
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| Laiska | Sir_Lancelot: What are you trying to accomplish again.. why can't you just add the background images from desktop menu one by one? | 23:48 |
| Laiska | MohammadAG: Ok, just for clarification :) | 23:48 |
| MohammadAG | oh xchat is running on the N900 | 23:48 |
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| blubbi | hi all | 23:49 |
| ifreq | hi blubbi | 23:50 |
| blubbi | I want to do some extensive app testing this week and looking for a reliable method to bakcup my contacts (merged contacts) events, dates, messages, etc... | 23:50 |
| blubbi | is the integrated backuptool reliable? | 23:51 |
| MohammadAG | used it today | 23:52 |
| blubbi | and while on this topic, where does Maemo store all this information? Is there a central database? Split up txt files? | 23:52 |
| blubbi | MohammadAG: and? | 23:53 |
| MohammadAG | it restored everything as it was | 23:53 |
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| MohammadAG | was checking SMSs and conversations to see if it restored them | 23:53 |
| blubbi | MohammadAG: that sounds good, so now I can safly brick my phone :-) | 23:53 |
| MohammadAG | my advice though is, install all conversation plugins, then restore contacts | 23:53 |
| MohammadAG | haha, flashed it twice in a week | 23:54 |
| blubbi | IMHO I didn't install any conversation plugin | 23:54 |
| Sir_Lancelot | Laiska when you're on n900 wallpaper page | 23:54 |
| Sir_Lancelot | there's 2 links | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | MSN yahoo etc | 23:54 |
| Sir_Lancelot | a link with the 4 wallpapers | 23:54 |
| Sir_Lancelot | and a link for an html file | 23:54 |
| blubbi | MohammadAG: I am only on Skype, XMMP | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | XMPP is? | 23:55 |
| Sir_Lancelot | which I guess has to be put inside the .desktop folder | 23:55 |
| Sir_Lancelot | so that N900 detects those 4 wallpapers has a batch | 23:55 |
| blubbi | MohammadAG: ICQ Plugin is one I'll test and report bugs now | 23:55 |
| MohammadAG | it isn't SIP | 23:55 |
| Sir_Lancelot | and change them all at once | 23:55 |
| blubbi | MohammadAG: XMMP is jabb | 23:55 |
| MohammadAG | oh | 23:55 |
| blubbi | jabber | 23:55 |
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| MohammadAG | then no plugins | 23:55 |
| MohammadAG | were installed | 23:56 |
| blubbi | ack | 23:56 |
| MohammadAG | blubbi, you made the ICQ plugin? | 23:56 |
| blubbi | ah, yes, and SIP I use a lot | 23:56 |
| Laiska | Sir_Lancelot: ahh.. umm, actually, the files I've seen over there are actually .desktop , not .html. Is this the case with your background image also? | 23:56 |
| blubbi | no | 23:56 |
| MohammadAG | oh kk | 23:57 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | so, where should I put that desktop file? | 23:57 |
| blubbi | MohammadAG: but I would like to use ICQ, so I'll test it and see if I can find some bugs :-) | 23:57 |
| Sir_Lancelot | you're right Laiska | 23:57 |
| Laiska | Sir_Lancelot: /home/user/MyDocs/.images/ | 23:58 |
| MohammadAG | never used ICQ really | 23:58 |
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| MohammadAG | need a facebook chat plugin, sadly most ppl I know only use it for chat :( | 23:58 |
| Laiska | Sir_Lancelot: ..and then also move the pictures to the same (../images) folder | 23:58 |
| blubbi | Two bugreports from me concerning SIP have been accepted an will hopfully be fixed in the next or the following FW-Upgrade :-) | 23:58 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | so, I have to put all inside the Images folder, right? | 23:59 |
| Laiska | umm, yes | 23:59 |
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