IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-01-02

AakashPateladalal: i say that the new update for telepathy-extras broked something00:00
adalalAakashPatel: i think so too... report it?00:01
adalalneed to have a look a the bugs list00:01
AakashPatelme too00:01
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phreckso whats up00:17
MaemohammadAGhi00:19
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RST38hIn the wake of public outcry against the Transportation Security Administration for serving civil subpoenas on two bloggers, the government agency has canceled the legal action and apologized for the strong-arm tactics agents used00:21
adalalAakashPatel: had a look?00:21
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MaemohammadAGrunning low on root space. how can i check which apps are installed to root00:24
AakashPateladalal: nah i was setting up my phoen again, ill do it right now00:24
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AakashPateladalal: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2585000:32
povbot`Bug 25850: was not found.00:32
adalalit is found00:33
adalallol00:33
rlinfatiHi, using liblocation with mode = CWP, what is the default accuracy? 640000 ?00:37
rlinfatior someone with location-test-gui + n900 + sim  can checkit ? ( i'm not sure if this value is per country o global )00:38
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AakashPateladalal: fixed in .600:57
AakashPatelhe just uploaded it00:57
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KamuiN900hi01:06
pupnik_ /lastlog fixed01:07
KamuiN900round of golf01:07
KamuiN900very refreshing01:07
KamuiN900so xchat is really quite nice now01:07
KamuiN900just a little hildonizing...01:07
crashanddieso is talking to yourself, apparently01:07
KamuiN900is that your way of telling me to shut up01:08
crashanddiequite01:08
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KamuiN900*sniff*01:08
crashanddie~pett kamui01:08
crashanddiedamn01:09
crashanddie~pet KamuiN90001:09
* infobot reaches over and pets KamuiN900 on the head, saying "There, there! It'll all be ok!"01:09
KamuiN900lol01:09
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crashanddieanyone have a megavideo link for doctor who? (the one that aired tonight?)01:12
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tps_Is nokia planning to drop support for gtk on maemo because most of the news coming from nokia about maemo are mainly Qt related. Anybody knows?01:28
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jXwell, Nokia bought TrollTech, and are opening Qt, and moving to it in the next Maemo, hence the spate of Qt related news, as for dropping it, not sure.01:29
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jXI'd say right now they're not entirely sure, but I'd wager there'll be a period of dual support.01:29
jopputps_: M6 will have legacy support for GTK+01:30
SpeedEvilAnd mer is gonna be a _lot_ more functional in the nearish term.01:30
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ifreqcan anyone dl firefox beta from their site01:31
ifreqcant dowload it with n900 atleast01:31
ifreqit opens up to app manager and i get msg: operation not permitted01:31
wazd_e63reheya01:31
jXwfm01:31
ifreqwww.firefox.com/m01:31
joppudon't worry; it sucked anyway01:32
ifreqokay :)01:32
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angasuleis there any reason cloning guides all want the internal mmc to be partitioned into 2 or more partitions?01:34
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jXI'd say yes, there is a reason.01:36
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adalalAakashPatel: cool, sorry was out01:38
AakashPatelnp01:39
angasulejX: thanks, what is the reason?01:39
jXI haven't a clue.01:39
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GAN900angasule, so swap has a place to go and USB will mount something.01:40
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angasuleGAN900: I'm not quite sure I want swap, and ext2 doesn't seem to be a problem with USB, I tried it already01:42
GAN900You want swap01:42
angasuleI do :?01:42
GAN900But you don't need FAT for it if you enable it manually.01:42
GAN900Yes.01:42
GAN900And you want ext3.01:42
dmj7261do you want to only have 256 mb for ram?01:42
angasulehow do I get ext3?01:43
GAN900128MB on the N81001:43
GAN900angasule, follow the guide?01:43
SpeedEvilext3 is a problem with usb if you want to plug it into random appliances. for example mp3 players and have it suck the music out.01:43
GAN900mkfs.ext301:43
SpeedEvilIf I simply copy all the files off the existing mmc partition remake it as 4G, and put the files back - that should work OK?01:44
GAN900SpeedEvil, we already determined that that wasn't a necessary feature.01:44
jX"I've been bitten by the deadly MP3back snake! You must open the woiund and suck the music out or I'll die from RIAAitis!"01:44
SpeedEvilwant a large ext3 part01:44
angasuleok, so I should convert to ext3 and then proceed with a single partition01:45
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dmj7261ext_ should be default when windows support is only a niche feature.01:46
jXniche feature?01:46
jXfrom what planet do you hail? I'd liek to go there.01:46
dmj7261I'm dreaming here.01:46
jXindeed.01:46
dmj7261Or when M$ decides not to saddle the whole world with filesystems that are nearly as bad as the kind undergrad students make.01:47
* SpeedEvil stabs the exfat thing01:48
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adalalAakashPatel: what's the difference b/t MSN and MSN (Haze)?01:49
AakashPatelNo clue01:49
ali1234msn(haze) = libpurple, msn = butterfly01:49
adalalthanks!01:50
ifreqi wonder how long until ovi store will open it doors :P01:50
ali1234butterfly being a native telepathy plugin. haze is just a wrapper01:50
adalalah.. so ur suggesting using MSN as the option over MSN (Haze)?01:51
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cehtehanyone knows where one can read the brightness sensor (and proximity sensor perhaps?) dbus or /sys?01:53
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pupnik_searching this channel will give you the prox sensor at least\01:57
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ali1234adalal: not really, no. i find haze to be more stable. but neither of them is "ready" yet, that's why they're not in extras yet. unless they are and i missed it.01:58
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adalalali1234: they aren't i suppose...02:06
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KamuiN900has anyone come up with a definitive answer on which consumes less power with light/moderate use, pidgin or conversations with various plugins?02:14
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GAN900The people in the firmware thread are so inane.02:16
jebba1what thread?02:16
SpeedEvilKamuiN900: somewhat irrelevant if you have 3g on02:17
SpeedEvilKamui; start top, look at CPU use after an hour02:17
jebba1http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=449032#post449032 ah probably that thread...02:18
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SpeedEviljebba1: I read the first page, and I can feel neurons dying.02:19
KamuiN900i had thought it had to do with network use02:19
KamuiN900well now i know02:19
nikosapiany of you n810 owners have a problem with their battery swelling?02:20
SpeedEvilxchat lasts >>12h logged in02:20
pupnik_confirmed around 10-1202:21
SpeedEvilKamuiN900: 3g is horribly power using for any \02:21
SpeedEvilIRC client02:21
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pupnik[ADVERTISEMENT] Are you daunted by the scratchbox setup wiki!  Does crosscompiling make your eyes blur? Don't get mad, get MADDE! Maemo Application Development and Debugging Environment  http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE02:27
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pupnikanybody good with x86 debuggers.  i want to find the function that turns left/right/forward/back in ultima underworld 1 (1992, DOS) and bind those to keyboard arrows02:42
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cehtehmhm will maemo.org ever be fast?02:43
lcukyes02:44
lcukpupnik, its a dos debugger you need then?02:45
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pupniklcuk: i think it would be not-so-easy02:45
pupnikjust planting seeds02:46
lcukindeed,gdb is better for debugging02:46
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lcukbut not sure of mileage02:47
lcukin emulated dos apps02:47
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pupnikit's still a bit slow in dosbox02:47
pupnikit is listed in top games of all time lists.  and it was really good, once you got past the pixelation02:47
Caesiumhow much life is everyone getting out of their N900 with wifi on permanently? I'm at about 50% battery after 24 hours of sitting htere mostly idle with wifi on.. wondering how that fared02:48
pupnikbut all steering was done by clicking on the mouse... RSI hell02:48
pupnikstrange hobby Caesium02:48
Caesiumhey, I'm geeky, what can I say :)02:48
cehtehCaesium: well it very much depends on what the device does02:48
pupniki got a spare battery and external charger02:48
pupniksolved, next issue02:49
cehtehif its idle and doesnt do much connections it will last quite long02:49
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cehtehbut i drained the battery in about 6hours or so with a lot of email, skype and rss updates running02:49
Caesiumouch :)02:49
Caesiumexternal charger, hmm, will have to scout for one of those, not a big fan of the N900s "intelligent" charging02:50
cehtehjust wlan on doesnt consume power, transmitting data does02:50
Caesiumif it has power it should chuffin' well charge the battery.02:50
SpeedEvilCaesium: over 30h or so02:50
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ShadowJK(unless the AP is crap)02:50
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GAN900Caesium, saves battery cycles.02:50
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SpeedEvilCaesium: I gave up at ~30h of testing.02:50
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ifreq  hmm hermes saved some time to fillup contact details :)02:50
ifreqgotta love it02:50
SpeedEvilCaesium: wiht it simply reporting battery stats over ssh every 20s. And about an hour of normal use too02:51
ifreqnow just give good/simple sw to rate up apps02:51
cehtehlistening webradio lasts prolly 5-7 hours for me, cant exactly say because i usually do other things then too with the device02:51
SpeedEvilcehteh: and yes, wlan on consumes power02:51
Caesiumoh, where did you get the battery stats? I had a look for /proc/acpi but it's not there02:51
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SpeedEvilcehteh: the reciever - even though it's on for a short time only - uses a fair bit of power02:51
SpeedEvilCaesium: lshal|grep batter02:51
cehtehSpeedEvil: yes but "just on" is quite less than transfering data02:51
Caesiumah, ta :)02:52
cehtehi usually have it all times on02:52
SpeedEvilcehteh: not really that much02:52
SpeedEvilcehteh: transmitting data generally isn't much more expensive than preparing that data to transmit02:52
cehtehthat hardly makes a big drain, other things are more expensive, like i saied .. add the rss widget, update email automatically, have skype running02:52
cehtehwell power issues are somewhat black magic .. with my device reflashed some days ago and have a dozen charge cylces now it lasts much longer than in the beginning02:53
Caesiumthat's another reason I'm letting it run down02:54
cehtehfirst days i was really unsatisfied, always less than 8 hours sometimes even only 4 hours02:54
lcukanyone considered its because you were running around installing loads of stuff all day at first02:54
jXspeaking of RSS, the RSS widget doesn't autoscroll anymore?02:54
cehtehyou dont/should not run down a li-ion battery too often, thats not good for them02:54
cehtehlcuk: yeah prolly that too02:55
Caesiumagreed, but once or twice to get it calibrated won't hurt it I think02:55
SpeedEvili wish it was possible to set maximum charge voltage02:55
lcukmy batteries go up and down like a hookers ass02:55
SpeedEvilcharging only to 98002:55
lcuksometimes they are full, sometimes not02:55
CaesiumSpeedEvil: hm, why? :)02:55
SpeedEvil90% does wonders for battery longevity02:55
lcuksometimes they drain ocmpletely, othertimes they are drip fed02:55
cehtehwell i now keep it on the charger while sitting and working, then its full when i disconnect02:55
cehtehand new batteries are not that expensive compared to a laptop battery so this is not a that big issue02:56
cehtehjust having it last far less than a workday in the beginning was disappoiinting02:56
cehtehbut looks ok now02:57
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cehtehthere are some bugs still .. turn wifi off and it sucks battery like no more02:57
cehtehsometimes xinput-sound gets stuck at 100% cpu02:58
cehtehwatch out when the device gets warm .. prolly a good idea to look at it then, or reboot02:58
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Caesiumload-applet is handy for that :)02:58
cehtehwell load applet wakes the cpu by itself02:59
* cehteh just scratches the design for an automatic profile switcher, based on a voting system, anyone here interested on such a project03:01
SpeedEvilcehteh: voting system?03:03
cehtehhttp://pastebin.org/70410   config alike03:05
SpeedEvilcehteh: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist/Profiles - some thoughts03:05
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cehtehthat is there are 'engines' which query a certain thing, if the device is facing down, or about the time03:05
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cehtehthen this is looked up in the associated table, which in turn votes for some feature03:06
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SpeedEvilI'm planning on resizing partitions on the mmc. Shrinking p1 - the vfat - to 4G - and putting P4 - an ext2 - in the free space.03:07
cehtehlike celluar = on, availability = offline and so on,   after gone through all engines the votes are counted and wining things are set03:07
SpeedEvilAnyone aware of any issues with this?03:07
SpeedEvilI'm copying off the stuff in the vfat first03:07
cehtehi first thought about logic rules, but that becomes too complex to configure03:07
tremnite all, sweet dreams03:08
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cehtehbtw, how/where can i control the speaker and microphone volume when doing calls? i yesterday tried to call someone from a party and the phone was way to silent03:10
SpeedEvilthe hardware volume buttons03:11
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cehtehmhm ok trying that next time, i had the impression they had no much effect03:11
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cehtehwaah .. who designed this?03:14
cehtehthe volume buttons change direction in portrait mode03:14
SpeedEvilyes03:15
dmj7261It's retarded03:15
SpeedEvilit's 'intuitively obviuous'03:15
SpeedEvilor retarded.03:15
cehtehi vote for retarded03:15
dmj7261They are the right direction in portrait, and not the wrong direction in landscape,03:15
dmj7261but the switching directions is weird03:15
cehtehyes03:15
cehtehand i would like if phone volume is independent of music volume03:16
dmj7261this wouldn't be an issue if the buttons were on the bottom (landscape) of the device03:16
dmj7261and alarm volume03:16
cehtehalarm volume is already independent03:16
dmj7261I wanted the alarm to be top volume without watching video at ear blasting loudness.03:17
dmj7261really?03:17
cehtehiirc its set in ringtones03:17
dmj7261I must be missing something03:17
dmj7261but if I turn the main volume down, does it get quieter?03:17
cehtehprofiles03:18
cehtehmhm no03:18
dmj7261Actually, the color for the volume bar is inverted from what it should be.03:18
cehtehor its always max volume?03:18
cehtehwell thats a minor issue03:18
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dmj7261I generally associate black with background more than yellow.03:19
* cehteh tries alarm03:19
dmj7261It's minor, but it confused me the first time.03:19
cehtehthere are a lot little things which can be done better03:20
cehtehyeah looks like alarm always goes up to max volume03:20
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cehtehuhm welcome to the reboot :/03:53
SpeedEvilwhat recreates fstab?03:56
jXa pissed off fgirlfriend with a fknife03:56
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pupnikcehteh: there are application profiles in pulseaudio config, it might be possible to do04:02
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cehtehuhm wtf .. ssh asks me for password, was setup for key only04:04
SpeedEvilyou flashed?04:05
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cehtehno .. but solved :)04:06
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cehtehshared connection setup i have to initiate a connection as user, from my laptop first before i start root<>root rsync04:06
cehtehroot has no ssh key on my lapto04:07
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cehtehpupnik: well i am thinking about something which integrates it all in one thing04:08
pupnikAn app volume setter gui?04:08
cehtehah .. i thought you talked about the profile thing i talked earlier04:09
* pupnik is listening to the Dan Ellsberg interview from yesterday again04:09
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SpeedEvilcehteh: why not just do ssh root@phone ?04:11
SpeedEvilwith the key added to your user accounts keys it just works04:12
cehtehSpeedEvil: i exactly did that, but as root04:12
cehtehthe root on my laptop has no key04:12
cehtehbut i am using the ssh connection shareing feature of ssh .. so i can start ssh root@phone as user first after that i can do that from a sudo-root terminal too04:13
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cehtehusing pam-ssh sso04:14
cehtehnever enter passphrases04:14
cehteh(almost, except for initial login)04:14
SpeedEvilah04:15
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* SpeedEvil is rsyncing his laptop to back it up onto the phone.04:15
SpeedEvilhard disk is doing odd things.04:15
AakashN900is there tab complete in xchat maemo?04:15
el_zilchoanyone know where to find a man package?04:15
jXdown on the docks04:16
el_zilcho:)04:16
* SpeedEvil was wondering about that the other night.04:17
SpeedEvilabout what options stupid busybox tar supported04:17
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* SpeedEvil wants a nukebusybox package04:17
SpeedEvilbash/findutils/...04:17
el_zilchooh well, it was worth a shot04:18
el_zilchoa friend and i have found that upon installing certain packages, we have no clue what the associated commands are... no one specific package though04:19
pupniksomething broken on package 'heimdal'04:21
pupnikWarning: Unknown: Failed to write session data (memcache). Please verify that the current setting of session.save_path is correct (tcp://maemovm4.dmz:11211) in Unknown on line 004:21
pupnikhttp://maemo.org/packages/view/heimdal/04:21
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cehtehso rsync backup, with important files under git .. should be fine now :)04:23
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cehtehNokia-N900-42-11:~# du -a / | sort -rn | head -8004:24
cehteh  ... lets see if the device survives that :P04:24
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cehtehwow .. was even fast04:26
SpeedEvilThe device is sruprisingly capable.04:27
cehtehunless the watchdog disagrees04:28
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jebbaya, i rsync the entire device and it rips thru it pretty quick04:46
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cehteharrg reboot again04:56
cehtehjust listening music and doing nothing else on the device04:56
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cehtehuhm sw_rst .. wtf ...04:58
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SpeedEvilnever been an issue for me05:01
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SpeedEvilonly unexpected reboots have been due to user error05:01
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cehtehmaybe i send this device back, i have another one ordered05:04
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cehtehi wanted to cancel the other order, but well the newer one will likely be a better hardware revision05:05
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Mika_ijoo vaan matkaan. palataan huomenna ellet ole keissä05:31
Mika_iups sorry05:31
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dmj7261cehteh: I hope you end up with a non-borked device.05:46
cehtehdmj7261: well yes i maybe just send it back05:46
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cehtehits from this amazon warehouse deals .. but they have still a 30 day return warranty05:47
dmj7261I'm happy that mine isn't having such troubles.05:47
cehtehi thought it stopped after reflashing, but seems to return05:47
dmj7261I think a lot of these troubles have some hardware aspect to them.05:48
cehtehwell i can send it back and wait a little more for a new device, first i only wanted one for review and to take a mold for my case project05:48
dmj7261Just my guess though.05:48
cehtehyeah i have some doubts that a software fix will be very good05:48
dmj7261Yeah, I really like mine despite all the complaining I do about aspects that I dislike.05:49
cehtehi expect there will be something alike "if hardware revision < xxx then disable feature bar"05:49
cehtehlike currently there is a workaround proposed by some people to disable some power management05:49
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cehtehif nokia slips that silently in for first batch devices to make them stable that would be sad05:50
dmj7261Strangely enough, my mom liked mine so much she got herself one.05:50
cehtehhehe05:50
cehtehyou seen my case?05:50
dmj7261No05:50
dmj7261Link?05:50
cehtehhttp://lumiera.org/n900_case1.jpg05:50
cehtehand until case4.jpg05:51
cehtehthat was just a try, next days i build a better one from the things i learned from the first attempt05:51
dmj7261That does look nice05:51
dmj7261I'm currently thinking of making a case.05:51
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cehtehi have the molds for vacuforming the shells now :)05:52
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dmj7261I take it you don't use the hardware keyboard much?05:52
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cehtehoh well i have no idea how to build a shell which is rugged and provides access to the keyboard .. but i just take it out when i need the keyboard05:53
cehtehi wanted access to the sockets and loudspeakers .. so you cant get all05:53
dmj7261I have seen some on ebay that do.05:53
cehtehwell i doubt their ruggedness05:54
dmj7261That's true.  I haven't used them personally.05:54
cehtehi have no doubts that mine will now endure even bad crashes05:54
dmj7261While I'm looking around at cases, I've just been storing it in a garmin gps case and removing it when I want to use it.05:55
SpeedEvilI have a crappy clear case from ebay05:55
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SpeedEvilwhich mostly works after some sandpapering05:55
SpeedEviltwo parts which clip onto the phone05:56
cehtehi want to make another watertight clear case around the current one.. with bikemount05:57
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SpeedEvilPity you can't boost the brightnes of the LEDs05:57
SpeedEvilto make it easily sunlight readable that is05:58
cehtehwhich ones? display? flash?05:58
cehtehah05:58
cehtehfor sunlight readable i rather want a black on white theme05:58
SpeedEvilflash LEDs as bike light - lol.05:58
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SpeedEvilDoesn't work so well.05:58
dmj7261you tried it?05:59
cehtehwell its a transreflexible display .. but you need a lot bright/white dots to let light in05:59
SpeedEvilOt's not useless - but when you're not hand-holding it, it is somewhat debatable.05:59
Arkenoiyep, b/w theme would be nice, i had one on s6005:59
dmj7261You need a mounting bracket for attaching n900s to bikes06:00
cehtehopen a (white) xterm and turn brightness down, cover the brightness sensor and shine with a bright lamp on it06:00
cehteh thats reasonable readable then (not great, but better than the black theme)06:00
SpeedEvilno need06:01
SpeedEvillook for the *brightness node in /sys and eco 0 to it to turn off06:01
cehtehor that06:01
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cehtehwell having it completely turned off and readable would be noce06:02
dmj7261What would be a great idea is a back comer that allows you to mount regular camera lenses.06:04
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cehteh cat /sys/class/backlight/acx565akm/cabc_available_modes06:05
cehtehoff ui still-image moving-image06:05
cehtehmhm06:05
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cehtehdmj7261: lol06:05
user_nice find06:06
go1dfishinteresting06:07
go1dfishwonder if that is what the 'power saving mode' option on the display is?06:07
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AakashPatelAre there any existing projects going on to port android ot the n900?06:08
svanheulengood evening06:09
greenflyAakashPatel: why would you want to do that? android seems inferior other than the head start in apps06:10
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greenfly(half of which are just to make up for a limited web browsing experience)06:10
AakashPatelgreenfly: idk, just seem like it would be cool06:10
AakashPatel(and yea the apps thing also)06:10
svanheulenanyone know how to get the good old normal terminal ftp utily on the n900? all i see in the repositories are gui ftp clients06:12
svanheulennever tried android... limited web browsing? does it not use chrome?!06:14
go1dfishI think by limited web browsing he means not blessed by adobe to support their unholy POS of a web plugin06:15
svanheulenso i'm not the only one that thinks flash should burn in hell... nice :)06:16
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cehtehhttp://www.natisbad.org/N900/n900-commented-hardware-specs.html .. nice page06:18
svanheulenbah, no one's responding on maemo-devel. is there a package to get gcc on the n900?06:18
user_svanheulen i compiled lftp and put it on tmo06:18
cehtehsvanheulen: apt-get install gcc ... extras-devel repositroy06:19
cehtehoh not, only on scratchbox?06:19
svanheulenlol wut... i tried that, said gcc didn't exsist06:19
AakashPatelit doesnt use chrome06:20
cehtehwell compile gcc then and make a package :P06:20
AakashPatelits WebKit based06:20
AakashPatel(android browser006:20
Arkenoicehteh, scratchbox only, sou you should probably optify it before installing06:20
cehtehbut why do you want that? .. fry your cpu?06:20
cehtehyeah06:20
AakashPatelwhat do you guys mean when you say "optify"06:20
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svanheulenwell i don't plan on compiling gnome on n900 or anything, haha06:21
user_AakashPatel: saving space on root partition06:21
svanheulenjust for my own code06:21
AakashPatelOh, sticking stuff in /opt?06:21
svanheulenalso, chrome is webkit based too06:22
AakashPateli thought it was V806:24
AakashPatelor whatever06:24
* Arkenoi is thinking on removing unused i18n packages from the device, there are many06:24
svanheulenv8 is the javascript engine i think06:24
AakashPateloh yeah06:25
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go1dfishyes v8 is the javascript engine06:34
go1dfishuses webkit for rendering06:34
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Arkenoiaccording to http://www.natisbad.org/N900/n900-commented-hardware-specs.html there is IR _receiver_ as well?06:41
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kamui2jesus06:42
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user_thanks arkenoi06:44
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AakashPatelOkay, is there a way to import all the contact at once, that i exported using the "export" button?06:47
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dmj7261arkenoi: that site has an error06:51
dmj7261it does come with a usb to microusb cable06:51
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gandhiistill trying to get my head wrapped around this optify thing..  why not just enlarge the root partition?06:53
dmj7261because it's as big as it can be06:53
dmj7261It's on a physical 256 MB drive06:53
dmj7261not the 32GB one06:54
user_http://maemo.org/packages/view/toppler/  should have info on package status and voting06:56
gandhiithought that might be the case.    where exactly can I find documentation on the specifics of what is where?06:56
gandhiiand is it only /opt that is put on another partition?  how about /usr and /etc?06:58
user_also the sort order for testing packages is a mystery.  i really hope the server upgrades go well06:58
dmj7261Your home folder is on the 32 gb as well06:58
user_and we need to thank yhe webguys for all the work06:58
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* cehteh rarely installs linux on a root partition bigger than 256mb (well less than 1GB for sure) 07:05
cehteheven for desktops and servers07:05
kamui2has anyone announced working on porting blender to the N90007:05
cehtehlol#07:05
dmj7261I wouldn't mind a port of 2.5, but I don't know if anyone is.07:06
dmj7261kamui2: you interested?07:06
kamui2yea07:06
gandhiiwhere do I'll second the blender port thing07:06
kamui2I was asking before duplicating someones effort07:06
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kamui2didn't see anything really on the maemo.org site either07:06
dmj7261Please port 2.5 series not 2.4x07:06
kamui2well, here goes, Ill start tonight07:07
dmj7261hooray!07:07
dmj7261You know there was someone who did this for winmo07:07
kamui2yea07:07
kamui2blenderce07:07
kamui2I used to use it all the tie on my EXec07:08
kamui2concept work, and dicking around during class07:08
gandhiiI'm going to guess that it would be alot easier to port to maemo than winmo  ;]07:08
cehtehit really doesnt matter how much power a mobile device has .. you always find people who will satuate it07:08
kamui2it was a real hassle to use, and the resolution was ridiculously low if you didn't have a vga device07:08
kamui2I tried using it later on the tilt07:08
dmj7261I found that 2.5 looked usable (with stylus) at 800x480 on my desktop.07:08
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AakashPatelscreenshots is Ctrl+P right?07:08
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kamui2well, of course 2.5 is only available in svn :)07:09
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kamui2anyway, im on it, lets see what I can pull off07:09
AakashPatelon ctrl sht p07:09
dmj7261http://imagebin.org/7791007:10
AakashPatelshft*07:10
gandhiiawesome..  I'll be keeping an eye on it07:10
dmj7261that's blender 2.5 at wvga07:10
cehtehwell .. still looks cramped07:11
cehtehdunno for what you want to use it :P07:11
kamui2is that 2.5?07:12
gandhiiyea..  but looks pretty usable compared to the winmo version.. and any of those panels are easy to full screen07:12
dmj7261I'm viewing the pic now on my n900, and it looks like it would be usable with stylus07:12
kamui2much better than 2.407:12
kamui2chanbge of the default interface layout?07:12
dmj7261far better than the winmo screenshots seemed07:12
kamui2haven't even used 2.5 yet, justgrabbed it07:12
dmj7261That's default 2.507:12
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dmj7261It's a lot nicer than 2.4 when it comes to the ui07:12
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gandhiijust now dl'ed and running it for the first time too.  Looks like it will require some relearning..  but looks good so far07:18
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user_nice.  winxp reinstall nuked bigbox part table07:24
user_always good to refresh the rescue skills07:24
user_thanks bill07:24
kamui2confirmation07:24
kamui2GL/glu.h is provided by mesa right07:24
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user_mesa provides glu.h07:25
user_not the other way around07:25
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kamui2ok, so what did I say that was different07:25
user_glu.h could come from another sourxe07:26
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kamui2great, anyway thats a big help, I was 99% sure but I wanted to verify before wasting time trying to build mesa07:27
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user_no dont07:27
user_google a bit07:27
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svanheuleni don't see any way of recording video on the n900 out of the box, or any way of using the front camera. am i missing something?07:28
kamui2the only app that uses the front camera that I've seen is mirror07:29
kamui2to record video using the normal cam, just run the camera app07:29
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kamui2and change the mode from auto image to auto video07:29
kamui2if you haven't tweaked the camera app at all, it will be the box with the A in it07:29
svanheulencool, thanks07:29
svanheulenalso, is there any way to do video calls with skype?07:30
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kamui2naah07:30
kamui2not yet07:30
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kamui2afaik07:30
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svanheulendang07:30
kamui2on a positive side note, skype calls are relatively low latency even over edge :)07:30
user_what would you pay for skype video capability?07:31
svanheulenyeah, i've tried it a few times and it sounded better then a normal call, haha07:31
svanheulenwait, you have to pay to get video with skype? i did not know that... just created an account last week07:31
svanheulenor you mean i pay you to make it happen?07:32
svanheulenhaha07:32
user_no just wondering07:32
svanheulenmeh, i don't think i'd use it much. i was just curious if it was possible07:33
user_if i were skype i would try to sell it as an addon07:33
user_through ovi maybe07:33
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cehtehnokia tells 'skype coming soon' still .. that prolly means a client with video capability07:34
cehtehfirst they have to fix the frontcam anyways07:34
svanheulencool07:34
kamui2this is gonna take a while07:34
kamui2my scratchbox has a shitload of updates07:34
RST38hcenteh: You are overlooking one more possibility07:35
RST38hcenteh: That Nokia's left hand does not know what Nokia's right hand is doing07:35
RST38hI.e. Maemo Select marketing people simply do not know that Skype is already bundled with the device07:35
cehtehi dont care, i dont need video capability07:35
cehtehRST38h: looks like they dont even know that the device is in production already :)07:36
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user_how about a free service that lets two n900s initiate private p2p video07:36
cehtehsip?07:37
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cehtehi was thinking about installing a sip server/proxy on my server machine07:37
user_no idea. i just see the std video streaming witn mencoder /gstreamer07:37
cehtehthere is SIP :P07:37
cehtehthe n900 supports sip .. its an open standard07:38
go1dfishunlike skype07:38
cehtehyeah, i'd like to use sip more, but really skype has some services you cant do with just a open project07:38
cehtehcalling landlines, doing stuff only carriers can do07:39
kamui2why can't skype do that07:39
user_i was hoping for a non evil alternative for the near future07:39
cehtehi saied sip07:39
kamui2oh07:39
kamui2pardon07:39
go1dfishcehteh: sure you can07:39
go1dfishyou can do all that with sip07:39
cehtehwell it will cost someones money07:39
go1dfishyou cant do it completely for free as in beer07:40
cehtehyes but then again you need some service provider like skype07:40
go1dfishbut you can certainly do it with open protocols07:40
user_why07:40
cehtehwell you cant do it (at least not easily) in a community effort07:40
go1dfishlike gizmo (now owned by google)07:40
user_i kust need an ip and a connection thru a firewall to my friend07:40
go1dfishused to be called sipphone07:40
cehtehsip is capable of a lot and more things07:40
go1dfishall sip/jabber based07:41
cehtehbut the thing is that you need the infrastructure to interfaces the technologies07:41
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cehtehthat needs money07:41
user_i want no service provider and no central point of control or spying07:41
kamui2thats the only really must have missing feature of conversations07:41
kamui2and the IM plugins07:41
kamui2no way to transfer images/files07:41
cehtehuser_: if you only want to talk over the internet then use sip07:41
kamui2cehteh over skype?07:42
kamui2seems cheaper to use skype for that07:42
kamui2and its less problematic than sip07:42
cehteheh?07:42
go1dfishuser_: then you cant use traditional phone networks/numbers at all07:42
RST38h(mental note: change default nick in XChat from user/user_/user__ to iamstupid/really_stupid/idiots)07:42
* RST38h cackles evilly07:42
user_this nick rules btw07:42
cehtehRST38h: well i like that :) last time i was user_ from my bathtub :P07:42
kamui2N900 in the tub!?!07:43
kamui2nice07:43
kamui2I didn't get a lanyard, and im oto chicken to risk it07:43
go1dfishhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype_protocol#Obfuscation_Layer07:43
cehtehmhm where does one announce mameo projects and gather devs? talk.mamemo.org looks more like a users place07:44
go1dfishhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype_protocol#Legal_Issues07:44
cehtehml? i am not subscribed07:44
cehtehkamui: put it in a zip bag .. listening music, well and chatted a bit07:44
go1dfishno thanks, your stuck with whatever client they feel inclined to bless your platform with07:44
go1dfishdont like it? tough shit07:45
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Arkenoishit. the media player hiccups every 20 minutes or so, seems that *something* wakes up in the phone. shoudn't it be reniced by default to higher priority?07:50
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user_how do you know the hiccup is in userspace07:52
cehtehhttp://git.pipapo.org/?p=profiled;a=blob;f=profiled.lua;h=44cd2ec293e4b056a2d058052f2012403772a5c8;hb=3ea0c1fe9bde819c9a1f125442ebcaf39331cea008:00
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cehteh.. anyone want to help with such a project?08:00
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kamui2had to build a dependency, libdrm08:03
kamui2however, pkg-config will only point to the old version08:03
Arkenoiuser: just a guess. i am not sure :-(08:04
kamui2I relinked the library, and updated the ld.so.conf as needed08:04
kamui2ldconfig and tryed to reconfigure08:04
kamui2what am I screwing up here08:04
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hrw|gonemy SDK image has hildon-desktop without 'More...' button now08:10
hrw|gonethx nokia08:10
cehtehwell 'less' isnt installable either .. grr :P08:12
hrw|gonewhere I can fine sources of gtk+ 2:2.14.7-1maemo15 (or newer)?08:15
user_i google fremantle pool src (pkgname)08:17
user_iirc08:17
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hrw|goneonly maemo12 is in repository08:20
user_what depends on it hrw?08:20
hrw|gonenewer hildon-desktop08:21
kamui2finally08:21
kamui2mesa is building in the scratchbox08:21
user_hre the hildon-desktop should have a maintainer email for the person who knows the answer08:22
Arkenoitmo down?08:23
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aspiditeshas anyone come across any decent (hildonized) Qt examples08:25
aspiditesi'm technically using python bindings but at this point I'll settle for Qt examples. The examples in the source seem to be lacking (no stackable windows, etc)08:26
Arkenoilooks like Qt applications usually take about 2 seconds to start (while there are gtk ones that start in a blink of eye), or did i just pick wrong ones?08:28
hrw|goneaspidites: http://gitorious.org/qt-module-player/qt-module-player08:28
hrw|gonebye08:28
user_ebay.de lists N810 as a smartphone08:28
aspiditesthanks hrw|gone i'll check that out08:30
hrw|goneaspidites: thats my tool - you can catch me on monday if have questions08:31
aspiditeshrw|gone: i noticed the name :-P08:32
aspiditesany special set up you used with designer?08:33
hrw|gonenone08:33
* hrw|gone -> off08:33
aspiditesk, i'll try to stop by on mon. if i have questions08:34
kamui2who's familiar with mesa08:37
kamui2im only building the swrast driver08:38
kamui2thats software rendering only?08:38
villagersounds like it08:40
kamui2yea, I vaguely remember a recent change to mesa08:40
kamui2where the old software render was replaced by a new one, I believe swrast was the new08:40
aspiditesexit08:43
aspiditeser...08:43
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kamui2shit09:32
kamui2I probaby should have not build the blender game engine09:32
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pwnguinon the phone?09:33
kamui2im building it in the sandbox at the moment09:33
DangerMaushohum09:35
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kamui2I have an app im trying to build that requires Phython.h10:14
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kamui2which I was sure was already in maemo10:14
kamui2so I grabbed the maemo python source and rebuilt it10:15
kamui2the Make still cna't find the .h file10:15
kamui2but its sitting in /scratchbox/include/python2.510:15
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dmj7261phython.h?10:26
tps_Hello, is there a big drawback in using python(PyQt, PySide) for maemo compared to using C++/Qt?10:27
kamui2yea10:27
kamui2im really close to finishing the blender port10:27
kamui2im on the apps core now10:28
dmj7261p*h*thon?10:28
kamui2apparently my sandbox is a bit hosed10:28
kamui2I need to install Python-dev10:28
kamui2but it wont let me10:28
kamui2my libs are too new, and those headers are too old10:28
kamui2im gonna try the testing and devel repos10:28
tps_what is the major drawback? Speed? If yes, how bad is it?10:28
dmj7261where is the header you're looking for?  I don't see a /scratchbox/include10:30
kamui2on my system after downloading the source for python its in /scratchbox/include/Python2.5/Python.h10:31
dmj7261oh, I didn't download the python source on my scratchbox, just the python 2.5 packages10:32
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lucentSpeedEvil: "kerryboard" is like an Ouiji board, but instead for communicating with John Kerry's presidential election campaign10:35
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dmj7261so how did you get python there again?10:38
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kamui2its not working10:39
kamui2but apt-get source Phython2.510:39
kamui2then I build it10:39
kamui2built10:40
kamui2make, then make install10:40
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kamui2anyway, Im going to bed, I almost had blender working in only a few hours10:40
kamui2but Im tired. see you guys tomorrow10:40
dmj7261why do you havd an h in there?10:40
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lucentlisp?10:41
lucentba-dum-dum rimshot10:41
lucentlanguage jokes.10:41
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pupnikis there some easy way to add a diablo armel target to the new sdk?10:57
cehtehi guess adding a new bootstrap ...10:59
lucentwhat is "diablo", I've heard it several times and did not find a succinct description on tmo11:00
pupnikcodename for older maemo release11:00
lucentthanks11:00
pupnikn800, n8q011:00
pupnik81011:00
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pupnikor do real devs just use autobuilder to create those packages11:01
pupnik... expiring minds waht to know11:02
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tigertheh11:02
tigerteasy to spot tablet users by typos ;)11:03
cehtehhehe11:03
tigertgood morning from the dentist waiting room btw ;)11:04
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lucenttigert: too much teeth grinding, waiting for Ovi Store to open for N900?11:07
tstaerkdamn... ARMEL means ARM, endian, little, right?11:07
lucentjust a guess....11:07
lucentnah11:07
lucentARMEL is ARM + EABI11:07
tstaerkok, what is EABI?11:07
lucentwell it might mean ARM,endian,little but I don't think so11:07
tigertlucent: hehe11:08
lucentEABI is the binary interface between code11:08
lucentI don't know a lot about it11:08
lucentthere was an older non-EABI Application Binary Interface and it was considered annoying11:08
lucentthe EABI only is possible with new versions of GCC since a few eyears ago11:08
* lucent grins at the etypo11:09
lucentelol11:09
tstaerkok, thanks11:09
tigertlucent: /me spotted an ad for a drink today at the tram stop11:10
tigertit was called "LOL"11:10
* lucent facepalms11:10
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tigerta teen shot thingy11:10
lucentshoot the teens, great idea.11:11
lucentnot what you said, it's what you said.11:11
* lucent :)11:11
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tigerthttp://www.lolshots.com/ < and tghey likely expect people to paste the link just like this :P11:12
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* RST38h only understood "Jatka" 11:13
tigertits a .fi site11:13
lucenttigert: how do I use their product? Am I supposed to vomit *before* or *after* drinking it?11:13
RST38hThe rest completely missed this target11:13
tigertlucent: after you piss but before you vomit?11:13
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tigertoh well11:14
lucentI think this is an Idea that I will really hate if it is a success11:14
mzaanyone know of something similar to knots2?11:15
mzathe web front end portion11:15
* RST38h wants an applet for switching xkb layouts11:15
lucentlike zippered hip pouches tourists wear and colored "show your support" rubber bracelets11:15
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tigertsomeone should hack a ovi store applet11:18
tigert"is it there yet?" "no."11:18
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tigert"yes!"11:18
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RST38hSomeone should come up with a real use for Ovi Store first.11:19
lucentyeah I wish Nokia would say officially "Chill bitches, we're workin' our pimp game. Don't hate the player, hate the game."11:19
RST38hPreferably before it follows Nokia Download, NGage, etc11:19
tigert:)11:19
fralsRST38h: awesome new version of xchat!11:22
tigerthmm11:23
tigertqtify11:23
tigerthas someone tried, does it work ok?11:23
tigerti dont have spotify premium11:23
tigertso i cannot test11:24
KamuiN900new xchat is great11:25
KamuiN900saves prefs now no crash11:25
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KamuiN900pidgin is also great11:26
KamuiN900pidgin > conversations plus plugins11:26
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pupnikthanks to marat KamuiN90011:34
cehtehKamuiN900: oh ... nice11:36
pupnikcan apt-get update spit-out a list of NEW packages?11:37
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user_\o/ default nicks rule11:39
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JaffaMorning, all11:42
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tigerthm11:43
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tigertvagalume has libre.fm stuff on config11:43
tigertbut i get last.fm error messages11:43
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Stskeepstigert: i recall something about needing to set a config as last.fm API isn't happy about streaming to cellphones11:47
tigerthmm11:47
tigertthis isnt last.fm11:47
tigertlibre.fm11:47
tigertit works now11:47
Stskeepsah11:47
tigertbut maybe the whole app is not fixed yet :)11:48
tigertbut11:48
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tigertnow I have this other issue11:48
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tigertthat seems to haunt all community music appsä11:48
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tigertthey dont play with profile on silent11:48
tigertmediaplayer plays ok though11:48
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* tigert wonderd why11:48
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tigerts/rd/rs/11:49
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pupnikpulseaudio has application profiles and some way to register which you want11:49
tigertyeh11:49
tigertthis is sucky11:50
pupnikmore /etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf11:50
pupnikand other files11:50
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pupnikno it s great.  just need to learn how to use it11:51
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tigertyeah11:52
ceh900so hopefully th lasrt restart11:52
tigertno no i mean11:52
tigertthe fact that tmost apps dont set this sucks11:53
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* cehteh still searches for help implementing his automatic profile switcher .. bit unrelated to pulseaudio, but still11:55
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tigertceh900: based on the location framework?11:58
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cehtehtigert: using all kinds of sources for input and all kinds of actions to change things12:03
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tigertXhmm12:04
tigertXyeah, this is way nicer12:04
tigertXthough the default color palette is horrid :)12:04
cehtehhttp://git.pipapo.org/?p=profiled;a=blob;f=profiled.lua;12:05
cehtehhacked some ideas/brainstorming together in lua12:05
cehtehhehe12:05
* cehteh just had a reconnect12:06
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cehtehtigert: i just want some intuitive way to configure certain (many) aspects of the device ..12:07
tigertyep12:08
cehtehfor example if it lays face down at night then it can shutdowen celluar12:08
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Stskeepshappy newyears, wazd_e6312:08
cehtehor if not at home it should prefer to secure the device earlier12:09
tigerti wish libre.fm could filter out the sucky indie music :)12:09
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* tigert didnt especially enjoy the artist "Jimmy the Hideous Penguin" more than a few beats12:09
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cehteh:)12:10
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tigerti have a synth too! gee, it makes funky effects!12:11
RST38hheya wazd12:11
RST38htigert: it plays Jimmy to all the open source people!12:11
tigertyea!12:12
RST38hSeriously though, I want last.fm back. Libre.fm is just some useless Last.fm wannabe site.12:12
* cehteh listens radio paradise .. but well i need something new :P12:12
tigertsomafm works nicer for me so far12:12
cehtehhehe try this russian 16bit station :)12:13
cehteh(from the default playlist)12:13
tigertall these free music sites are a nice idea12:13
tigertbut if the music sucks its no fun :)12:13
cehtehthere is always a off button12:13
tigertcehteh: where?12:13
cehtehtop of the device in the middle, just press it long enough12:14
tigerttrying vagalume, just tag radio seems to work12:14
fralsanyone heard anything about python-abook bindings? there are tutorials up on pymaemo garage site but i seem to be unable to find the actual bindings :P12:15
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BluesLeeis there a navit port on the n900 available?12:17
BluesLeeovi takes too long to fire up12:17
cehtehjep ovi is the worst of all mapping apps12:17
BluesLeemaemo mapper confuses me when downloading maps, sqlite db doesnt seem too work12:17
cehtehdo you need maps or routing?12:18
cehtehyeah i hope that will be fixed soon12:18
BluesLeei need maps cehteh12:18
cehtehotherwise maemo mapper looks great12:18
BluesLeea script to download maps on the pc for osm would be enough12:18
cehtehthere are a lot more mapping apps12:18
cehtehmostly in testing or elsewhere12:19
cehtehosm2go, maep, ...12:19
BluesLeeosm2go is an editor12:19
* cehteh would like to see someone porting viking to maemo12:19
cehtehmaybe i should try just to compile it12:19
BluesLeethere is qlandkarte12:20
BluesLeebut i dislike that they use all different formats for handling the maps12:20
* RST38h will listen to music the old way: dc++/torrent, download a few albums, listen to them in mp312:20
BluesLeei just want to download all of them into a loopable image and mount it to the correct path12:20
RST38hto hell with internet radio12:21
cehtehfrom all i seen, mameo mapper looks most promising so far12:21
RST38hmaep12:21
cehtehRST38h: streamripper :)12:21
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RST38hcenteh: too complicated12:22
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BluesLeethere was a guy here who was porting navit at least he tried12:22
BluesLeeoverall, i am happy with the n90012:23
cehtehconfigure: error: libgps is needed for Realtime GPS Tracking feature, but not found. The feature can be disable with --disable-realtime-gps-tracking12:23
BluesLeei miss only a few things yet12:23
cehtehdamnit12:23
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cehtehah maep looks nice too, bit simple, but i guess thats a feature12:26
BluesLeecehteh: did you tried fennec on the n900?12:26
BluesLeecehteh: but i need a method to autodownload a lot of maps12:26
cehtehfennec is unuseable imo12:27
BluesLeecehteh: for my freerunner i used tangogps, there was a 386 version with which i downloaded all the maps and then i copied it to the mobile devoce12:27
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BluesLeecehteh: yeah, fennec is much too slow, i was suprised why they released it12:28
cehtehits not really released, still beta12:29
cehtehi hope that there are a lot assertions and other slowdowns enabled and a release will be much faster, else this will be a fail12:29
cehtehi am happy with microb .. and tear looks also nice12:30
BluesLeetear?12:30
melmothA possible workaround for donwling maemomapp on a pc is ...to use the sdk12:30
melmothjust compile maemomapper there, and ask ti to download a huge area, go to sleep. The day after, you got your repository12:30
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tigertfennec lacks the networking hildon api12:31
tigertso it doesnt ask you to connect to network12:31
BluesLeemelmoth: is there no script to do that?12:31
tigertwhich is annoying too12:31
melmothnot that i am aware of.12:31
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BluesLeetear is the default browser on mer, right?12:31
lardmanmorning all12:31
tigertthere was some map downloading tool12:32
BluesLeehi lardman12:32
StskeepsBluesLee: yeah, might switch to midori but we'll se12:32
Stskeepse12:32
RST38htigert: which is probably the least annoying thing about fennec12:32
tigerti just dont remember more, but i remember seeing something like that12:32
tigertRST38h: its become slightly better,12:32
tigertbut missing interactions are worst12:32
RST38hjust a little bit...no longer flashes the screen on startup12:32
BluesLeeStskeeps: i was really suprised taht maemo's midori is much better than on my freerunner12:32
RST38hbut it tends to hang for seconds with no indication of activity12:33
tigertyeah12:33
StskeepsBluesLee: well i guess freerunner is old. Tear worked -really well- on freerunner12:33
RST38hand this absolutely drives me nuts12:33
tigertand the kinetic panning drags too much12:33
tigertmicrob got that pretty good with the touchscreen we have12:33
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RST38hpanning in Fennec is ok, very subjective anyway12:35
BluesLeei am also happy with microb, its ore than sufficient for me12:36
RST38hI guess it is all that javascript/xul that is dragging it down though12:36
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BluesLeedoes someone know something about anki/mnemosynce on n900?12:38
BluesLeei tried yesterday ankiqt, but it misses too many python deps12:38
BluesLeeankimaemi fires up but no interaction is possible for instance opening a file12:39
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BluesLeemnemosyne seems to work out of the box from the repo http://evince.garage.maemo.org/12:59
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ColdFyremaemo doesn't support more than one application playing sounds at once?(like esd)13:04
PaulFertserColdFyre: ever heard about pulseaudio or simple alsa dmix? ;)13:05
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ColdFyreyes, but i thought it would be OOTB13:08
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fralsomg13:13
fralsi just sent an mms from my n90013:13
fralsIM AWESOME13:13
frals\o/13:13
pupnikmaybe browser could mail warning to admin@site "took 25 seconds to load (URL) please fix."13:13
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pupniklegitimate problems arent spam13:15
ColdFyrefrals:  how?13:16
fralsworlds ugliest python hack13:16
pupnikotoh maybe sites will start catering more to mobiles13:16
pupnikpretty cool frals13:16
pupnikproof it is possible at least13:16
ColdFyrehaha, did you write the script?13:17
fralsya13:17
pupnikno he did not.  his fingers did13:17
fralsso now im both receiving and sending MMS on my n900 :]13:17
ColdFyrepastebin it!13:17
ColdFyreis it CLI for sending ? ;)13:17
fralsdepends on a lot of ugly code13:17
lbtStskeeps: bug 6416  ... can you ask for the source in your official capacity :)13:18
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6416 Wifi won't connect until rebooted...13:18
arachnistfrals: you are? how?13:18
ColdFyrei jsut moved from android to maemo..lots of different stuff13:18
ColdFyreno ringtnos for each person :(13:18
lbtespecially given Alan's comment that it's not in the w51-1 build13:18
fralsencoding the mms message binary and then just posting it to my mmsc, was really easy :P13:19
lbtfrals: cool... :D    --  are you going to do fax next? ;)13:20
fralscolor fax! ;)13:21
ColdFyrealso, maybe i'm tripping, but there are no working themes for download?13:23
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joppuIs it just be, or does telepathy-butterfly cause a significant power drain? So haze is just a wrapper for Pidgin? Is pecan any good? Jabber requires setting up a own server, right? What is the level of battery drain between the last 3 options?13:33
arachnistjoppu: you don't need to set up your own jabber server. there are dozens of free ones13:37
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arachnistjoppu: even google talk is jabber13:37
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joppuI was talking about MSN13:38
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arachnistjoppu: you did ask about jabber.13:39
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joppuI forgot to mention it, I was talking about the MSN transfer on Jabber13:39
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gerrymothquit13:41
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joppuBut yeah, does anyone have any battery life experience between butterfly, haze and pecan?13:43
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Ceronis pecan new?13:46
Ceronhavent heard of it13:46
Ceronhttp://felipec.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/msn-pecan-0-1-0-rc2-ready-for-testing-now-with-n900-support/13:49
pupnikbbl13:54
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ifreqanyone had strange probs after updating msn plugin(under conversations)13:58
ifreqcant find it anymore on accounts.but i can change my availability13:58
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ifreqso cant disable msn acc anymore and see all my contacts offline14:01
ifreqsuckage14:01
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ifreqalso it seems to add my offline msn friends into contact book14:02
ifreqlots changed, makes me wonder how easily ppl can upload unfinished stuff.into repos14:03
joppuifreq: I have the same14:03
joppuBut I just removed the whole butterfly due to it's huge battery drain14:04
joppuCurrently testing the other choices14:04
ifreqyeh going to either fring or pidgin then14:06
ifreqtoo bad as i liked the conversation integration14:06
ifreqwant to buy simple voting app14:07
SpeedEvilcall diebold?14:08
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ifreqhrr14:09
ifreqcant remove msn now from availability list14:10
ifreq:) grr14:10
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Ceronlol samsung bada = just another maemo?14:10
Ceronright14:10
joppuifreq: why not give haze a try? pecan was nonfunctional for me.14:12
joppuI hate using a seperate application for IM14:14
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ifreqjoppu,yeah testing it atm14:17
ifreqalso read on many postings buttfly was quite disapointment14:17
arachnistmsn is quite a disapointment14:24
ifreqyeah true. not all use irc tho..like parents etc14:29
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xorAxAxcehteh: do you want to start a project for n900?14:30
Remosi Hrm, I read some discussion about MMS requiring two independant internet connections, since a carrier may have two APN's with the same gateway address.  There was discussion using iptables and multiple networking stacks, why not use setsockopt(.... SO_BINDTODEVICE ... ) to force the MMS send/receive out a particular APN?14:32
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Arkenoimore detailed power management howto http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39038 <- anyone?14:33
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fluxarkenoi, wouldn't those numbers depend also on the quality of network service in your region?14:35
fluxarkenoi, but hey, you could measure them and provide a great service :)14:35
Arkenoiflux: really hard to do so ;-) if i only had second n900, it could be easy, but incoming calls and other evreryday needs disrupt my measurement attempts ;-)14:39
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DerSaidinifreq: bitlbee14:40
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joppubitlbee requires you to set up a server14:44
FIQuh14:44
FIQno, it requires you to connect to it and create an account14:45
FIQvery hard i know14:45
FIQthe hardest part would be inserting it in your autoconnect list14:45
joppuFIQ: if you want to use a public server that is.14:46
joppuStrangely enought, I'd let Microsoft or Google to handle my IM accounts but not some obscure person somewhere hosting the server.14:47
Macermasters of science fiction would be great if they didn't have stephen hawkings throwing quotes into it14:47
Macerit totally ruins the show :) no offense to people with whatever he has that makes it so he has to use the digital voice14:48
Macerbut he totally sucks14:48
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hrw|n900hi14:53
joppuhrw|n900: hello there14:53
joppudamn it the repos aren't updating :/14:53
hrw|n900joppu: why they have to?14:54
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hrw|n900btw... does someone know which version of hildon-desktop is in fw1.1?14:57
hrw|n900git head does not split applications into two screens - would be nice to have it in14:57
SpeedEviltwo scrreens?14:59
RST38hMacer: Well, he kinda has no choice on this15:00
MacerRST38h: yeah but they had a choice on who they would use for it15:01
Macerand he was not the right choice :)15:01
joppuCan someone try refreshing their appmrg?15:09
SpeedEvilArkenoi: I'm planning on hooking it up to my scope today to see if I can better measure current.15:09
SpeedEvilArkenoi: measure consumption of - ideally - every seperate element of the phone.15:10
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SpeedEvilIf I can get out of bed.15:11
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moo-_-is microb qt or gtk based?15:14
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redeemangtk no doubt15:15
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Macerwow15:22
Macerthat episode of masters of science fiction was like something straight off the christian channel15:22
Macerhaha15:22
HukkaWhat would be the best encoding for videos on N900?15:22
HukkaOn 770 it was necessary to transcode every video, but it seems that quite often the playback is choppy on just some random video file15:23
Hukka+even on N90015:23
Macerprobably because it only has a hw h26415:24
Macerdecoder15:24
HukkaAh, so h264 then15:25
HukkaThanks15:25
Maceryeah. best ot just use ffmpeg or something and make it h264+aac15:25
Macerot/to15:25
lcukHukka, if you are already in a transcoding mindset, the lower the rate you can put up with.15:27
HukkaAny recommendations on what is the optimal resolution for the tv out? I mean what is the point that increasing the resolution won't give any better picture on analog tvs15:27
lcukit will also give better bettery life15:27
HukkaWell, battery is not an issue. I mainly watch movies when stationary15:28
fralsworst part about doing quikc and ugly hacks is trying to make them look good and removing all hardcoded values... >_<15:28
HukkaIn buses and so on I read15:28
lcukmmm Hukka dunno, but you are right, i dont use tvout for videos most of the time tho15:28
lcukfrals :) not a problem at all15:28
lcukyour proof of concept is good15:28
lcukwell done!15:28
HukkaIt's actually nice, since at my place I use my big TFT-screen for movies directly from desktop, but N900 is the only device I have that can output to my gf's tv :)15:29
fralscheers :)15:29
* lcuk will get you a pint at the next summit15:29
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lcukwhat res is this at?15:30
lcukfrals ^15:30
fralsappearently my decode_mms function is too smart, it manages to get everything from the mms i send.. which didnt show up as nicely on a symbian phone :P15:30
lcukhehe cool15:30
lcukfrals, does that mean that at the moment, the n900 could be said to support "mms+" ...15:31
lcuk:D15:31
fralshaha :D15:31
Macerwhy does stephen hawkings still use dr sbaitso for his voice?15:31
lcukor rather have a rather rickity bunch of scripts held together with hair clips and chewing gum15:31
fralsonly handles .jpg and .txt atm thou ;)15:31
* lcuk calls u mcguyver15:32
pH5_what is the official way for checking whether the keyboard slide is open?15:32
RST38hAnyone can help me finding the place in xkb config where Ctrl+Space is defined?15:32
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pH5_via hal (/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_slide) or is there something on a higher-level?15:32
fralsprobably a similiar signal in dbus i *think*15:33
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pH5_RST38h: rx-51 xkb symbol config says Ctrl+Space is hardcoded in hildon15:56
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xorAxAxis there a way to talk to the gsm "modem"?16:03
xorAxAxin at commands16:03
pH5_xorAxAx: pnatd16:04
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xorAxAxpH5_: no, i want to talk to the gsm chip16:05
xorAxAxi want to circumvent phonet because it doesnt give me full access16:06
crashanddiewhere's is the council chair when you need him?16:07
crashanddies/ is//16:07
infobotcrashanddie meant: where's the council chair when you need him?16:07
lcuklast i heard he was going to a new years party16:08
xorAxAxhmm, sed test16:08
lcukhes prolly still strung up somewhere16:08
crashanddiehmm16:08
xorAxAxs/sed/& /16:08
infobotxorAxAx meant: hmm, &  test16:08
xorAxAxargh, damn infobot, wrong16:08
lcukis it urgent?16:08
lcukive got a batphone16:08
crashanddielcuk: tmo is one of the main tiers of the community, however it is not managed by the community16:08
arachnisthmm, sed test16:08
xorAxAxpH5_: do you have an idea?16:08
arachnists/sed/\& /16:08
infobotarachnist meant: hmm, \&  test16:08
arachnists/sed/\0 /16:09
infobotarachnist meant: hmm, \0  test16:09
arachnisthmm16:09
crashanddielcuk: there is no reaction when people offer help, and there is even less action when help is required. People like orangebox are ruining perfectly good forums and we need to take action16:09
lcukcrashanddie, orangebox is one troll, hasnt hebeen banned by mods already?16:09
crashanddieno16:09
lcuki tohught his threads all calmed down16:09
crashanddiebecause "he's only troubling in off-topic", nobody takes action16:09
crashanddiecalmed down? His thread is one of the most active at the moment16:10
lcuk"thread"   when people were complaining he had about 2016:10
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crashanddiedoesn't matter, ban the bastard ffs16:10
villagerMacer: it's hawking, not hawkings... and his synthetic voice technology and his interface to it was donated to him many years ago, and it's probably never been important to anyone to upgrade it, he probably likes it by now16:11
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crashanddievillager: well, if he says he doesn't like it, they'll take it away -- no more moaning then16:11
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villagerthat too16:12
villagerHukka: just use the maximum resolution of whatever tv format you're using, I suppose... the tvout is not limited to the device's resolution16:14
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Hukkavillager: Do tv formats have a max resolution? They are analog, after all16:15
lcukyes16:15
crashanddieHukka: they still have a resolution16:15
* Hukka checks wikipedia16:16
villagerHukka: there's definitely a max vertical resolution... horizontal may depend on the particular tv, remember even old color tv sets used raster mask things16:16
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villagerHukka: but there's typical horizontal resolutions as well16:17
HukkaHm, so would it be the vertical lines or the active lines?16:17
HukkaThe article mentions both16:17
Hukka(at least for PAL)16:18
villager57616:18
pH5_xorAxAx: unfortunately not.16:18
villagerthe remaining non-visible lines are used for encoding stuff like teletext16:19
HukkaOk, got it16:19
villagerthis probably still includes the overscan though16:20
crashanddieHukka: 768x576 is the average in Europe (PAL)16:20
HukkaThanks16:21
crashanddieNTSC is 720x48016:21
HukkaWho cares :)16:21
crashanddieNTSC sucked because you had saturation issues... (Never The Same Colour)16:22
HukkaBtw, are the new hd discs the same everywhere (apart from region codes, of course)?16:22
crashanddieyeah16:22
crashanddieblu-ray has nearly no region codes tbh16:22
crashanddieIIRC, only 10-20% of all blu-rays have a region code16:23
HukkaGreat, with DVDs it was quite annoying, that you couldn't really order from the states and PAL versions were months late, always16:23
HukkaNot that I know when I actually will buy a bluray drive. Probably not soon.16:24
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crashanddiejust get a PS316:24
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crashanddieit's a very decent blu-ray player -- not as good as a standalone one, but it just does a whole lot more16:24
HukkaI've always used my desktop as a media player, so no.16:25
HukkaBut yeah, if I did use a more traditional home theater setup, PS3 would be the best choice. Even moreso with the first revisions of it16:26
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mkargarheelo16:26
crashanddieHukka: get an iMac and use it to display your PS3 :P16:27
HukkaMy PS3 :?16:27
crashanddiewell, provided you buy one :P16:28
HukkaCan't afford one after iMac, it's one or other :)16:28
crashanddiewhere do you live?16:28
HukkaFinland, Espoo16:28
crashanddiehmm16:28
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crashanddieget a credit :P16:28
HukkaWell, seriously, macs aren't that expensive, considering it all and not just CPU power16:29
mkargari want help for share internet connection between laptop & n900!?i tested this help,but,it doesn't work:(:http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Sharing_ppp_connection_with_wlan_interface16:29
crashanddiemkargar: ouch16:29
FIQpal-version of things always being around 1year later or smth like that, than ntsc/jp is annoying16:29
crashanddiemkargar: ad-hoc doesn't work on the N900 IIRC16:29
mkargarcrashanddie:ad-hoc doesn't work on n900??!16:32
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villagerthe hardware should support ad-hoc, since pc-connectivity can enable it16:33
villagerand it seems I can add ad-hoc networks in settings... though I guess I've never had to16:34
villagercrashanddie: so are you saying it's broken?16:35
crashanddieI dunno, I thought I heard something like that16:35
mkargarvillager:do yo test it?it work?i tested it,but it doesn't work!:(16:36
villagermkargar: can't test, I don't have an adhoc net16:36
crashanddiemkargar: even if it works, you do realise that ad-hoc wifi will not allow you to use power-save mode on the N900 -- your battery will drain pretty quickly16:37
crashanddiemkargar: may I suggest going out to the shop and getting one of these: a wifi card that supports AP features, or an access point16:37
villagerI have a wifi card that supports AP features, but it doesn't support powersaving... argh16:38
lcukvillager, yeah i use adhoc16:38
mkargarcrashanddie:ok!wifi card for my laptop?16:39
lcukwhen my router dies i just switch back to it16:39
crashanddiemkargar: just get a cheap AP, costs $20 or less if you get it second hand16:39
crashanddiewhere do you live?16:39
* lcuk uses adhoc in many situations16:39
mkargarcrashanddie:in iran!16:40
crashanddieouch16:40
crashanddiehow are the fights going?16:40
villagerhoping that some future revision of the linux ralink driver will make my wifi card support powersave properly in ap mode16:40
Ceron16:27:09  crashanddie: Hukka: get an iMac and use it to display your PS3 :P16:41
mkargarcrashanddie:hehe:)16:41
CeronMAC != not in here plz16:41
crashanddieso mac = in here please?16:41
Ceronlol typo ;(16:41
Ceronremove not16:41
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mkargarlcuk:are yo use ad-hoc fro connetct to internet in n900?16:42
crashanddieCeron: ctcp version me16:42
crashanddieCeron: don't put your hate in here, as far as I'm aware, we're allowed to discuss nearly anything in this channel16:42
HukkaCeron: What, and Sony is ok then :?16:43
lcukmkargar, i use adhoc in different situations, my desktop has wired internet, if its on the network, then yeah i can access internet (gateway address set there)   normally though its just between laptop and n900 (think, on a train) and no internet that way16:43
Ceronno :P16:43
lcukbut when im adhocing i dont normally need internet16:43
FIQs//d/16:45
FIQs/a//16:45
infobotFIQ meant: pl-version of things always being around 1year later or smth like that, than ntsc/jp is annoying16:45
FIQehm, ok16:45
FIQs/m/\nprivmsg #maemo :test/16:45
infobotFIQ meant: eh\nprivmsg #maemo :test, ok16:45
FIQ._.16:46
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FIQs/._.//16:46
infobotFIQ meant:16:46
mkargarlcuk:dow you want guide me how to set configs for share internet from laptop to n900?(i using ADSL connection on eth0)!16:47
* RST38h wonders if anyone here knows anything about Maemo5 hardware keyboard configuration16:47
lcukno16:47
lcuki used windows, it has a nice internet connection wizard16:48
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mkargarlcuk:i want share it by wlan0(wifi!)!16:48
RST38hOpenVMS startup begun!16:48
* RST38h slaughters another hamster on the sacrificial altar16:48
lcukmkargar, i dont know via linux, and thats not n900 specific anyway16:48
crashanddieRST38h: it's a qwerty keyboard, and uses a function key to access special characters16:48
lcukRST38h, the lights in my house dimmed16:48
HukkaWasn't the problem with wlan connection sharing, that there's no iptables, and thus nat, on N90016:48
lcukthe n900 doesnt need it does it?16:49
crashanddieHukka: NAT and iptables isn't running on the N900 isde16:49
crashanddies/isd/sid/16:49
infobotcrashanddie meant: Hukka: NAT and iptables isn't running on the N900 side16:49
lcukn900 sets up network, giving ip,dns,gateway16:49
lcukset gateway to ip address of machine with bridge installed16:49
RST38hcrashanddie: thank you. anything more detaild?16:49
lcukbadda bing16:49
RST38hlcuk: OpenVMS needs power. Lots of power.16:50
lcukyeah RST38h you said before, i didnt think it would actually cause a brownout across europe tho!16:50
* frals curses different character encodings16:50
RST38hSHUTDOWN -- Perform an Orderly System Shutdown on node XXXVAX16:50
Caesiumgrumble, I think I've only just noticed that my laptop usb ports don't give enough power to charge the N900 up16:50
Caesiumfound it at 2% battery this morning16:50
Caesium(after being plugged in all night)16:50
* RST38h wonders what disorderly shutdown looks like16:51
lcukCaesium, screen off, wifi off, shutoff apps16:51
lcukfor maximum warp charing16:51
Caesiumlcuk: check, check, check :/16:51
lcukcharging16:51
lcuk:(16:51
lcukthat just sucks balls16:51
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Caesiumthe N900 said it was charging, but lshal values say differently16:51
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Hukkacrashanddie: No? Maybe I misunderstood what he wanted16:51
lcukCaesium, was your monitoring knocking it over the edge16:52
* RST38h would love to find the magic setting that makes HIM think that it running with RU keyboard16:52
Caesiumnah, I mean, I just ran  lshal this morning to see what the voltage etc were, and they were still very low16:52
RST38hIt is not hardcoded, is it???16:52
Caesiumit wasn't actually doing anything overnight16:52
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lcukmy battery died last night, i fell asleep playing some game or other16:53
Caesium  battery.reporting.current = 27  (0x1b)  (int)16:53
Caesium  battery.reporting.design = 1262  (0x4ee)  (int)16:53
Caesiumnot entirely sure what they mean16:53
lcukand it happily played till the morning16:53
CaesiumI thought it'd be current usage, but 27mAh? I don't think so :)16:53
joppuIf anyone has some time: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/reflect/0.74-1/16:53
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joppuIt's currently voted 9/10 :)16:54
arachnistjoppu: what's that supposed to do?16:54
mkargarplease help me for share internet from laptop to n900!i extreme need to internet on n900:(16:54
joppuarachnist: It's a theme16:54
arachnistoh16:54
Caesiumooh themes, I want new themes, I'll check it out :)16:54
* arachnist wants a LCARS theme for the N90016:55
HukkaAh, _from_ laptop to the phone16:55
lcukmkargar, look up linux internet connection sharing google results16:55
RST38hn900 is too small to qualify for lcars =)16:55
HukkaDidn't see that one coming :)16:55
Caesiumjoppu: errors when apt-get installing, I'll put them in www space, hang on..16:55
lcukthe instructions should be parallel to your requirements16:55
joppuCaesium: don't worry, it's normal :)16:56
lcukRST38h, didnt stafleet enlist midgets16:56
Caesiumah ok :)16:56
lcukstarfleet16:56
Hukkamkargar: Your system should have a connection sharing in an easy control panel or something. If not, switch to an easier system!16:56
RST38hlcuk: A midget will not be able to lift n90016:56
RST38hlcuk: And a normal guy will find the screen tiny =)16:56
HukkaAt least Ubuntu and OSX work just like that16:56
lcukmidgets in space could get round geoffries tubes tho16:56
lcukso it has its benefits either way16:57
* RST38h idly wonders why no new StarTrek soap in a while16:57
lcukthey said they were resting16:57
RST38hSome in peace, already...16:57
lcukbrennan n braga killed it with wussy stuff16:57
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* lcuk still shakes head @ theme "song" in enterprise16:58
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crashanddielcuk: resting? william shatner sounded like he's been running after his breath for the past 3 decades16:58
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crashanddieouch, looks like that one didn't go to well eh :P No comeback?16:59
lcuksorry, stuck on planet with no comms17:00
* RST38h wants StarTrek crew go the full way and finally show that StarTrek and Starship Troopers universes are in fact the same17:00
crashanddieCap'n, we're being overrun by bugs! --Fire all phasers leftenant smith (hang on, that's star wars)17:01
* RST38h has seen glimpses in some StarTrek episodes: military with phasers at each corner of the homeworld, rationing, etc. But it really requires a revelation.17:01
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* Arkenoi finds it quite disturbing that even my old symbian phone could act as AP with NAT while n900 cannot17:05
crashanddieoh ffs17:06
RST38hN900 probably can just requires some coercing17:06
crashanddiecould people please shut up about *my old phone did this, but the n900 doesn't, fail* already?17:06
RST38hArkenoi: Could you do something for me?17:06
ArkenoiRST38h, what?17:06
RST38hArkenoi: tar -cvzf ru-xkb.tgz /usr/share/X11/xkb ?17:06
RST38hArkenoi: and mail it to me?17:06
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crashanddieI mean seriously, you're comparing a brand new operating system, that is months old, with things that have been developed by corporations over years?17:07
Arkenoiok, wait17:07
thopiekarhi17:07
RST38hActually, tgz the whole /usr/share/X1117:07
thopiekaris "Till Harbaum" here?17:07
RST38hHe is comparing Linux with Symbian. Symbian winning is not a good sign.17:07
thopiekarMaintainer of the maep package?17:07
thopiekarfound a problem in his debian/rules..17:07
crashanddiethopiekar: the email line in the debian file is there for a reason17:08
crashanddiethopiekar: also, firstname@lastname.org17:08
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thopiekarcrashanddie: hmm I could say him very fast what the problem is, when he would be online here..17:09
thopiekarbut ok crashanddie17:09
villagerRST38h: I don't think it has anything to do with the OS... linux can act as an AP with NAT if the wifi chip and the driver supports it... same would probably be required for whatever symbian runs on17:09
villagerRST38h: but the n900's wifi chip don't support ap mode, I hear17:10
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Ceronhttp://aussenlager.namespace.at/pix/0727b1c2f97b5fd3656495c75bb66a1efcd3e50b.jpg17:11
jebbaUh, can someone help me out? I have wrecked my apt-transport-https .deb... I can't install it again via apt-get, because, well, it is missing. Can anyone apt-get --download only it for me and make it available or repack it or something so I can get it running again?  :)17:12
ArkenoiRST38h, got it?17:12
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RST38hArkenoi: yep17:14
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villagermy Symbian phone (N95) can't do AP mode either, by the way17:16
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villagerI can run NAT software on it, but then it can only do adhoc, not ap17:17
villagerand the n900 can definitely do that too17:17
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SpeedEviln900 can do, n900 can do with a bit of shell, and n900 can do out of the box with the stock firmware and no addons and an averagely skilled user are very different things.17:18
luke-jrif I find the N900 online for $320, is it a scam?17:19
RST38hArkenoi: Shit. It is exactly the same =(17:19
SpeedEvilluke-jr: no, of course not.17:20
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: Verify that your credit card will stand behind the purchase if the vendor does not deliver.17:20
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Caesiumjebba: er, apt won't let me download a package I have installed, and I have no package-building clue, but I can give you the file that looks like it'll make apt do https?17:22
Caesiumjebba: http://bsd.dsl.shagged.org/~chris/tmp/https drop that into /usr/lib/apt/methods/https and try recovering the package :)17:23
Caesium(rest of the package is just docs anyway)17:23
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jebbaCaesium: checking thx!17:25
Caesiumlooks like it's just a binary https fetcher that apt calls to do it's work17:26
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jebbaCaesium: seems to work, but i don't think i can reinstall the package. What does "dpkg -S /usr/lib/apt/methods/https" give you?17:29
CaesiumNokia-N900-42-11:/var/lib/apt/lists# dpkg -S /usr/lib/apt/methods/https17:29
Caesiumapt-transport-https: /usr/lib/apt/methods/https17:29
CaesiumI found that with dpkg -L apt-transport-https17:29
Caesiumcan you not now apt-get -d install apt-transport-https17:29
Caesiumthen maybe move that https out of the way17:30
jebbaE: Package apt-transport-https has no installation candidate17:30
Caesiumand apt-get install apt-transport-https which will use the local copy?17:30
jebbawhen i tried to install it.17:30
jebbaanyway, it is using the https binary i think, but i just can't get the actual package.17:30
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jebbaya, working, but no apt-transport-https deb available (?!)17:31
Caesiumyour sources.list didn't get nuked did it? :)17:31
jebbano17:31
thopiekaromg! properly the craziest ./configure file ever! it's modifing the debian/* file !17:31
jebbai'm grabbing this right now, for instance (for qstardict):17:31
jebbaGet:3 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/free libqt4-xml 4.5.3~git20090723-0maemo4+0m5 [114kB]17:31
CaesiumI can't find a way to force apt to download a deb it already has installed or I'd just give you the deb17:31
thopiekarI really hope that the Maintainer of maep will fix that!17:32
lcukjebba, you need the scratchbox apt https module/thingy17:32
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* thopiekar just wrote the email..17:32
jebbaoh ya, i did build that already ahhaha17:32
jebbai'm getting old17:32
kamui2morning17:32
jebbahttp://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/scratchbox/apt/freemoe/17:32
kamui2i need a little help building something that requires Python in the scratchbox17:34
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kamui2I can't install python-dev, so I downloaded the source of the python package I haave17:35
kamui2and build it17:35
kamui2but I still can't build off of it17:35
RST38hAhahaha17:36
RST38hWiFi password is stored as open text in gconf :)17:37
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RST38h ext_kb_model = nokiasu8w17:42
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derfRST38h: It alays has been.17:44
derf*always17:44
RST38hArkenoi: If you are still around, could you please do ' gconftool-2  -R /apps/osso/inputmethod' for me?17:44
RST38hheya derf17:44
RST38hArkenoi: I am trying to make Fremantle think it has got cyrillic keyboard17:45
derfMoo.17:45
GAN900Hooray for rhetoric fail on Talk17:45
RST38hBecause mighty UX designers for Nokia seem to think that we are not supposed to switch languages on English keyboards17:45
|RIs blueMaemo optified? :)17:46
RST38hOh shit email passwords are stored as open text too!17:47
javispedrowhat would you expect?17:47
wolf^security by obscurity probably17:47
RST38hMODEST.17:47
RST38hThe name is MODEST.17:47
SpeedEvilIf the user can install and run tcpdump, what's the point of encryption17:48
javispedrobtw, I still ponder wheter to tell those tmoers how to use the fmtx with headphones. is it safe? why doesn't nokia allow it?17:48
GAN900javispedro, FCC17:48
jaskawell, the imap login could use something other than plaintext?:)17:48
Caesiumpop3 and imap can both use ssl too?17:49
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javispedroGAN900: ah, thanks.17:49
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* javispedro thinks the fmtx is basically useless without headphones17:49
* GAN900 wishes somebody would 'splain the insanity in the firmware thread.17:49
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javispedroon the other side, I have to remember to tell fmradio's author that I want to be able to use it _without_ headphones ;)17:50
GAN900javispedro, and get a signal how?17:50
RST38hjavis: not possible, it uses the wire as antenna17:50
javispedroexternal antenna17:50
kamuipython2.5-dev: Depends: python2.5 (= 2.5.2-11.1maemo3+0m5) but 2.5.4-1maemo5 is to be installed17:51
RST38hthat is what headphones are17:51
kamuilittttttttttle help17:51
javispedrowireless external antenna ;)17:51
RST38hfail.17:51
javispedroa big metal column at ~2 meters17:51
javispedrodoes wonders17:51
RST38hespecially if someone uses it for grounding =)17:51
javispedro:)17:51
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ArkenoiWhere, exactly, is that Nokia newfound-focus on apps? While Apple's iPhone offers thousands and many are found for the Android phones, Nokia's offering its new N900 cell phone/internet tablet and Maemo 5.0 with current offerings of about 100 apps.17:51
ArkenoiIs he idiot, or what?17:52
javispedroalso, in some places I can get good enough reception without headphones17:52
wackldoes the fm transmitter also use the headphone line as antenna? hope so17:52
javispedroe.g. on the wild17:52
ArkenoiBut looks like it is quite widespread kind of idiocy17:52
javispedrowackl: it does, though the fcc doesn't allow the default sw to use it17:52
GAN900wackl, no, that would violate FCC regulations.17:52
GAN900javispedro, put it more accurately.17:53
lcukArkenoi,17:53
lcuknm17:53
lcukwhy cant i charge my device whilst fmtxing17:53
* b-man17 had a device that used the headphone line as an antenna xD17:53
javispedroGAN900: I think it depends on wheter you feel like toying or you mean "the device out of the box" :)17:53
lcukis my problem atm17:53
lcuki had a nearly flat n900 and power from laptop available, but i couldnt tx whilst charging17:54
wacklGAN900: so the hardware could use it but it's disabled because the transmit power must be < EIRP (think 10uW here in germany)?17:54
GAN900lcuk, because the fm signal might leak out your charger and kill your neighbors.17:54
lcukim in a car17:54
wolf^lcuk, wasn't that on bugzilla somewhere? already fixed iirc17:54
lcukthe only thing near is lions17:54
javispedroyou could kill the lions!17:54
lcukAND THEY SHOULD BE DEAD17:54
lcuki dunno wolf^17:54
GAN900wackl, software lock on it, yes.17:54
* lcuk must check17:54
javispedrowell, the usb cable also acts a bit as antenna17:55
* lcuk puts n900 into wok17:55
javispedroin fact even wrapping the thing with a copper wire acts as antenna, to both fmrx and fmtx...17:55
lcukanyway gan, i dont have any neighbors here in the uk17:55
lcukwe have neighbours, but they are different17:56
wacklneed to do a little experimenting with that. didn't get the transmitter to work with 3 different cars17:56
javispedro(therefore, using fmtx and charger may violate fcc regulations too)17:56
lcuki have a shaky video of me in car with n900 fmtx testing17:56
lcukis fcc a US thing?17:56
javispedroyep17:56
wacklyes17:56
* lcuk checks if he lives in the us17:56
javispedrothough I'm pretty sure there are more stupid restrictions here17:57
lcuknope, quite certain i dont17:57
RST38hArkenoi: Ah forget the apps, better do gconftool-2  -R /apps/osso/inputmethod17:57
Stskeepsjavispedro: a teaser for you: http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/Problems#542215276818899953817:57
SpeedEvillcuk: OFCOM17:57
* Arkenoi wonders why so many assholes out there 1) keep whining about MMS, though they just shut the fuck up 3 years ago when iphone had no MMS and 2) keep whining about ovi store, though there is application manager with download menu17:57
lcukofwat?17:57
javispedroStskeeps: lemme guess: touchbook with mbx?17:58
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* moo-_- wonders why Arkenoi refers people as assholes17:58
SpeedEvillcuk: Office of the COMunications regulator.17:58
Stskeepsjavispedro: well, SGX, but there's our "white problem17:58
lcukArkenoi, mms is rumbling its way through :) from early discussions to now i see great progress17:58
wolf^lcuk, bug 679217:58
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6792 FM radio transmitter does not play while USB cord is connected17:58
javispedroStskeeps: ah17:58
javispedroStskeeps: did you see my latest patch to the bugreport?17:58
Stskeepsjavispedro: nop, URL?17:58
javispedroStskeeps: the logic of it seems wrong if you look at it twice :P, but seems to work17:58
* javispedro thinks we need infobot / povbot to search for bugzilla ;)17:59
javispedros/for/17:59
Stskeepsbug 487017:59
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4870 Red & blue color channels swapped sometimes in SDK17:59
javispedrohttps://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1890&action=view17:59
javispedroah, thanks.17:59
Arkenoimoo-_-, because of their inconsistent behavior: when Apple does it, "MMS is not needed", when Nokia does the same, they call it "Nokia just fucked things up with lack of MMS support"18:00
* lcuk will use charger only next time,not try to use it in laptop mode18:00
lcukthx wolf^18:00
jeremiahhttp://shadowfax.dlinkddns.com/nokia.html18:00
javispedroStskeeps: with that you don't need any of the other "workarounds"18:00
jeremiah^^ view with N90018:00
jeremiahOr similar18:00
jeremiahI would like some feedback on that link please.18:01
javispedronice18:01
javispedro(without n900, sorry)18:01
jeremiah:)18:01
Arkenoiand whining "there are just 100 applications" because you are too stupid to add extras and devel fits to being asshole as well18:01
jeremiahNo biggie, I just want some feedback on usability, and how it looks on the device.18:01
RST38hmoo-: Because everyone has one, no?18:02
jeremiahArkenoi: I agree - total Apple fanboiism out there18:02
moo-_-Arkenoi: I'd rather call them "not educated" than assholes... maybe Application manager could make it easier to enable those repos?18:02
kamui2naah18:03
joppuDamn, I can't promote my package due to "Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/midcom/helper/_dbfactory.php  on line 451"18:03
joppu:(18:03
RST38hjeremiah: looks cool, a bit plain18:03
kamui2they are clearly not ready for the apple sheep18:03
jeremiahThe thing is, there are more apps for the Nokia N900 than for anything else out there because you can fairly easily port everything from debian18:03
RST38hjeremiah; Does not resize to the browser width18:03
jeremiahRST38h: Thanks - it is meant to be plain for the moment.18:03
kamui2still too many things to worry about like incompatible packages, or running out of space on root :)18:03
SpeedEviljeremiah: Umm - no.18:03
RST38hjeremiah: But it should resize to the browser width18:03
jeremiahI'll get maemo styling latter.18:03
jeremiahor later.18:03
SpeedEviljeremiah: once those apps are ported, it's fair enough to say that, but...18:03
moo-_-people will be ignorant to the end of the world... if they cannot find some information then maybe the information should be more well presented18:04
RST38hjeremiah: <TABLE WIDTH="100%"> etc18:04
jeremiahokay18:04
jeremiahBut there is no table.18:04
javispedroStskeeps: I still need to do more research on that, but that should work on LE platforms for now. Still don't know what causes the white, though.18:04
RST38hmoo-: Well, you could have found that "more well" is broken English, but you did not18:04
kamui2SpeedEvil just the guy I wanted to see18:04
jeremiahAnd it resizes for me if I just click on it.18:04
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RST38hmoo-: Was that information presented to you insufficiently well at some point?18:05
kamui2are you familiar with developing with Python.h18:05
Arkenoijeremiah, actually when iPhone was just out new, i blogged an entry describing its misfeatures and stating HTC or Nokia could get lynched for releasing such a castrate to the public, and the *only* reason people swallowed it is that it was Apple18:05
RST38hjeremiah; Make it a table18:05
moo-_-RST38h: no, but on the other hand I have 15 years of developer experience18:05
moo-_-RST38h: if people complain it maybe then there is a reason for the complaint?18:05
jeremiahRST38h:  No interest in going back to web standards from 199618:05
RST38hmoo-: A lot of people complain for the sake of complaining18:05
RST38hjeremiah: TABLE works. Everywhere.18:05
jeremiahI repeat.18:05
moo-_-RST38h: well in this case... Does the application manager tell anyhow there could be more applications available?18:06
RST38hjeremiah: So, I do not see why be snobbish about it18:06
joppujeremiah: how bout <div>s?18:06
SpeedEvilRST38h: but it's not javascript or css, or ...18:06
Arkenoiwell, though i think having extras and devel configured, just disabled by default could be reasonable18:06
SpeedEvilkamui2: no.18:06
SpeedEvilkamui2: sorry.18:06
* frals bashes his head against utf8 and iso-8859-118:06
* RST38h publicly sticks css where sun does not shine18:06
lcukRST38h, is it rendering ok with no glitches?18:06
moo-_-RST38h: also I assume your english parser is more fault tolerant than strict XML18:06
RST38hlcuk: yea18:06
jeremiahjoppu: Maybe I should add one.18:06
jeremiahBut I don't really see the need18:07
jeremiahI mean, all I want is a form and CSS18:07
jeremiahSo it loads fast18:07
* lcuk orders a team of nubile masseures to frals house18:07
jeremiahRST38h: Now it is you who is being snobbish18:07
javispedroit should be XForms! it should use a Java Applet for client-side validation!18:07
* jeremiah smacks javispedro with a moldy IE18:08
lcukserver side blink FTW18:08
javispedroit works well enough, only I have to agree that the fields need to be resizable18:08
Arkenoinowdays an average web page is several hundred kb long and it looks exactly the same one could do with 10kb page 10 years ago18:08
javispedrothey're too small now.18:08
javispedro(testing on n900 now)18:08
javispedrothe entire form only fits when in fullscreen18:08
javispedroand Description should be a textbox, depending on what kind of description you have in mind :)18:09
Arkenoiand there are damn too many scripts - and nothing breaks if i just disable it with noscript18:09
jeremiahjavispedro: Yeah, you're right about text box18:09
jeremiahjavispedro: Good feedback.18:09
Arkenoi(and if it does, it is just poorly implemented page, not some vital features requiring js)18:09
lcuktext size bigger18:10
jeremiahlcuk: Bigger!18:10
jeremiahIt is huge18:10
lcukwhats huge?18:10
jeremiahOh well, I'll make it bigger18:10
jeremiah22pt18:10
lcukthe label says PUT STUFF HERE18:11
SpeedEvilArkenoi: And it makes compression impossible.18:11
lcukand the text itself is like magnifying glassish18:11
jeremiaheh?18:11
lcukthe captions for the items is big18:11
lcukbut the text in the textbox is tiny18:11
lcukand uneditable18:11
* lcuk can barely read it :$18:11
javispedroyep18:12
jeremiahah!18:12
jeremiahI have to change that18:12
jeremiahthanks18:12
jeremiahYou guys rock.18:12
jeremiahEvery single one of you.18:12
javispedroI was just thinking about the ITP the other day :)18:13
Sir_Lancelothi guys18:13
javispedrogood job18:13
Sir_Lancelotdoes anyone know about a facebook app on the way for n900?18:13
Sir_Lancelot:S18:13
SpeedEvilActually - ebay has gotten slightly better in terms of page sizre than it last was.18:13
RST38hjeremiah: No, just being a careful old fart18:13
jeremiahs/careful/persnickety/18:14
jeremiah:P18:14
RST38hjeremiah: You are making me google for it =)18:14
SpeedEviloh - my mistake, it's gotten worse on most pages18:14
jeremiahw00t18:14
ifreqextras devel changed? do i need to change it manually?18:14
fralsso i got this lgpl library here ive modified slightly.. i can just append myself to authors and redistribute it right?18:15
joppujeremiah: http://tinypic.com/m/6xw7bq/218:15
RST38hjeremiah: Wrong word choice.18:15
RST38hjeremiah: 'Cause it is no small detail18:15
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jeremiahjoppu: Thanks.18:15
RST38hint_kb_layout = ru18:16
jeremiahheh, from your link I can buy a skateboard with that image18:16
joppudamn, copied the indirect link, sorry18:16
jeremiahJust what I want.18:16
RST38hthat may do it18:16
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jeremiahhttp://bit.ly/6tJPuN18:18
RST38hslide-layout = Russian/Latin18:18
RST38hLet us try THAT18:18
jeremiah^^ Thanks joppu - I am going to now buy this hat18:18
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joppu:P18:21
RST38hHURRAH! I GOT SECOND LAYOUT WORKING18:23
kamui2this is fucked18:23
kamui2forked18:23
kamui2why is getting the python dev headers so freeking hard18:24
RST38hOk, I lost arrows in the process but so fucking what18:24
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joppuFirst theme for Fremantle! Rejoice!18:29
joppuhttp://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/reflect/18:29
joppuAlso 203 karma, does this make a real developer? :P18:29
Stskeepswell i guess18:29
RST38hjoppu: More screenshots?18:30
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RST38hStskeeps: Is there a way to take global control of Ctrl+Space?18:30
joppuRST38h: soon18:31
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RST38hjoppu: Taking requests? =)18:33
Stskeepsjoppu: license of theme btw?18:34
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xorAxAxtimeless: do you know how to talk to the gsm chip directly on the n900?18:35
StskeepsxorAxAx: take a look at cellmo-icpr82-headers18:36
* RST38h feels like Dr Evil finally getting his doomsday weapon finished18:36
xorAxAxStskeeps: whats that? a package?18:36
StskeepsxorAxAx: yes18:37
StskeepsxorAxAx: it's in nokia-binaries18:37
PaulFertserxorAxAx: n900 gsm chip uses ISI protocol, there's some support in ofono already.18:37
xorAxAxPaulFertser: is there a kind of shell?18:37
RST38hgconftool-2  --set --type=string /apps/osso/inputmethod/intkb_layout ru18:38
RST38hThis will immediately turn the cyrillic layout on. No need to do any extra switching.18:38
RST38hNow, if I figure out a way to take over Ctrl+Space, I am all done: cyrillics will start working on Euro-1 N900s18:38
xorAxAxhah, //In case of problems concerning content of this file contact Markku Loukusa, Sauli Laukka or Markus M<F6>rsky18:39
PaulFertserxorAxAx: pnatd ?18:39
xorAxAxPaulFertser: i wonder if it gives me netmon functionality18:40
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xorAxAxPaulFertser: is ISI documented somewhere?18:41
PaulFertserxorAxAx: not publicly. ofono was going to provide a free software implementation though.18:41
StskeepsxorAxAx: those headers are ISI headers18:42
xorAxAxStskeeps: i saw18:42
Stskeepsofono may give clues how to use it though18:42
papohum can anyone suggest an email client which is nicely integrated with the maemo 5 UI?18:42
joppuIs there some person responsible for the web package management? I'm running into some nasty error pages :(18:42
xorAxAxStskeeps: what is ofono?18:43
StskeepsxorAxAx: google is your friend18:43
Markus23when I format /dev/mmcblk0p1 as ext3, can it then still be accessed as mass storage (under linux)18:43
RST38hpapo: Claws18:43
RST38hpapo: May not be as nicely integrated as Modest but at least it works.18:44
xorAxAxStskeeps: does the n900 use ofono?18:44
Markus23how does the mass storage mechanism work? Is it described somewhere?18:44
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RST38hjoppu: web package management is fucked up.18:44
StskeepsxorAxAx: no18:44
RST38hjoppu: probably will not be fixed unless someone new works on it.18:44
xorAxAxStskeeps: how is the gsm chip called that is being used in the n900?18:45
StskeepsxorAxAx: nokia's own18:45
Stskeeps(afaik)18:45
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joppuRST38h: Will this be fixed when the servers have been moved? I'm currently unable to anything in extras-devel.18:46
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Stskeepsvolunteer for helping out?18:46
Stskeeps:P18:46
kamuiim about to murder something18:46
RST38hjoppu: My guess is no18:47
kamuiwhy is  Python so difficult to work  wwwith18:47
RST38hkamui: go for someone! need any candidates?18:47
kamuiyea18:47
kamuiwhoever packaged pyhthon-dev18:47
xorAxAxPaulFertser: do you know how the gsm chip is called?18:47
Stskeeps'cellmo' would be a good guess18:48
Stskeeps:P18:48
PaulFertserxorAxAx: no idea, sorry.18:48
xorAxAxmaybe its in lspci or lsusb18:48
xorAxAxor dmesg18:48
xorAxAxcan somebody check?18:48
Stskeepsit uses Phonet maybe18:48
joppuRST38h: So is there anything I am able to do? Try to upload the package again?18:49
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RST38hjoppu: Depends on they way in which it is fucked up. Could you give me the URL and tell me what you are trying to do?18:50
jebba"Stskeeps: volunteer for helping out?"  with the servers?18:50
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joppuRST38h: I'm tryin to promote this to testing but all I get is the PHP timeout error:18:52
joppuhttp://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/reflect/0.75-118:52
RST38hok18:52
joppuIt's working, but if I log in it just gives the error18:52
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RST38hyea, it is pretty dead18:53
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jebbajoppu: this is where outages are reported: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581818:54
povbot`Bug 5818: We need servers18:54
javispedrojoppu: happens to me on some packages... try at different hours18:54
jebbai just gave up18:54
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RST38hjoppu: promoting to -testing?18:55
papoRST38h: Trying, thank you18:56
jebbaRST38h: ya, it times out all the time. Similar to when you try to vote karma for a package.18:56
RST38hnaah, nothing I can do, none of the tricks work18:57
RST38hjoppu: Catch X-Fade. Whine. Whine. Whine some more.18:57
joppuWhat happened on "November/December 2007" :P18:58
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RST38hSome long past clusterfuck?18:58
javispedrothe world ended.18:59
Sir_LancelotI need a hint guys: inside fremantle repo19:01
Sir_Lancelotthere are a lot of apps19:01
Sir_Lancelotwhich name starts by "Hildon"19:01
Sir_Lancelotwhat does it mean?19:01
javispedrohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildon19:02
lcukjoppu, maemo 4 came out19:03
lcukn81019:03
Sir_Lancelotthanks Javispedro19:03
Sir_Lancelotshould I install this on n90019:03
javispedrowhat?19:04
javispedrohildon is already installed.19:04
Sir_Lancelotor will it mess around and force me into a format19:04
Sir_Lancelotif it's installed why does it show up isnide app manager?19:04
Sir_Lancelotnow I'm confused...19:04
javispedrowhat's the exact name of what's showing up inside the app manager?19:04
Sir_Lancelot1 min19:04
Sir_Lancelothildon-application-manager-|10n-zhhk19:05
Sir_Lancelothildon-common-strings-|10n-zhhk19:05
lcukthe l10n packages are translations to different languages19:05
Sir_Lancelotso, ALL Hildon |10n packs are translations?19:06
andre__L. it's an L.19:07
Sir_LancelotI got it....it's written bellow the app "language files..."...19:07
andre__L10N = localization.19:07
Sir_Lancelotmy bad19:07
andre__:)19:07
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Sir_Lancelotobrigado andre19:07
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Sir_Lancelotanother silly question19:08
Sir_Lancelotwhen I install an app19:08
Sir_Lancelotwill it install all necessary libraries19:08
* lcuk releases a wholesome and rewarding burp upon the unsuspecting world19:08
RST38hyes19:08
Sir_Lancelotor do I have to install each dependency by hand?19:08
RST38hno19:08
* javispedro is starting to seriously hate cmake19:09
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GAN900Sir_Lancelot, turn off Red Pill mode. . . .19:12
Sir_LancelotRed Pill ??19:13
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RST38hehehehe19:13
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Sir_Lancelotwhat's the meaning of Red Pill?19:14
jebbaanyone know if board-rx51-camera.c is the front camera or the back camera or both?19:14
CaesiumSir_Lancelot: The Matrix reference19:15
joppuhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode19:15
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Sir_LancelotMatrix reference?.. you guys all in code... ehehehe19:16
Stskeepsjebba: no, the website :p19:16
Sir_Lancelotthanks joppu. I understood now19:16
Sir_Lancelot;)19:16
KamuiN900wow. even if i do get blender to build, im a little concerned now about the lack of an fpu on the n90019:18
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javispedro"lack"?19:18
KamuiN900where is pupnik when you need him19:18
joppuOnce I was IRCing, terminal colors naturally set to green-black. Some random dude came over to comment "Pretty cool Matrix screensaver you got there" :D19:19
javispedrothere are two theoretically, the vfp3 lite and the neon one.19:19
FIQ~seen pupnik19:19
infobotpupnik <n=user@p54B2E28C.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5h 24m 47s ago, saying: 'bbl'.19:19
FIQmeh19:19
joppuIt was just irssi :(19:19
GAN900Sir_Lancelot, you shouldn't be seeing hildon packages unless you're doing something screwy.19:19
Sir_LancelotI haven't changed nothing...19:19
Sir_Lancelot:S19:19
Sir_LancelotI just added catalogs19:20
Sir_Lancelotand that's it19:20
joppuGAN900: Someone has spammed devel with some translation files19:20
GAN900joppu, in user/*?19:20
Sir_LancelotI don't wanna see stuff which n900 doesn't support19:20
villagerKamuiN900: it can run 3d games and you think it lacks fpu features?19:20
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GAN900Sir_Lancelot, then remove Extras-devel from your catalog.19:21
joppuGAN900: yeah, how smart is that19:21
Sir_LancelotI thought that extras-devel would show up only fremantle apps19:21
Caesiumyes, but ones that will eat your n900 :p19:21
GAN900joppu, ah, I see.19:22
GAN900Sir_Lancelot, Extras-devel isn't anywhere anybody who's not either extremely adventurous or a developer should be playing.19:22
joppuGAN900: http://i50.tinypic.com/2eygl4y.jpg Like 1/8 of the "All" category is these :|19:23
FIQoh19:24
FIQthat suits me perfectly19:24
jeremiahHow does one take screenshots?19:24
Caesiumload-applet lets you do it19:25
FIQCtrl+shift+p19:25
jeremiah(Sorry, to lazy to look it up.)19:25
jeremiahThanks!19:25
lcukshift ctrl p19:25
Sir_Lancelotctrl+shift+p19:25
SpeedEvil'eat your n900' is somewhat unlikely for a non malicious app.19:25
SpeedEvilEat all your contacts isn't.19:25
jeremiahFIQ beat you lcuk19:25
FIQ..and i don't even own a device yet. :319:25
lcukindeed19:25
Sir_Lancelotheeehe19:25
jeremiah~FIQ++19:25
jeremiahFIQ++19:25
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Caesiumcool, didn't know about that keycombo19:26
lcukfiq just bein smug :p19:26
jeremiahkarma ~FIQ19:26
joppuCaesium: So bloated with all the unusable buttons :(19:26
jeremiahinfobot karma ~FIQ19:26
infobot~fiq has neutral karma19:26
FIQ~karma FIQ19:26
Caesiumno hardware ctrl though, so you can't do it without onscreen keyboard?19:26
jeremiahpff19:26
infobotfiq has karma of 119:26
jeremiah:)19:26
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javispedrohow does the hildon app mgr react to conflicts in conffiles?19:26
joppu~karma joppu19:26
infobotjoppu has neutral karma19:26
joppu:)19:26
RST38hbadly?19:26
jeremiahjoppu++19:26
jeremiah(for help done previousl)19:27
pH5_jebba: I think both. the smia-sensor driver is for the second cam (vs6555).19:27
GAN900Caesium, control is the upper left key on the keyboard. . . .19:27
Caesiumd'oh19:27
CaesiumI'm blind :)19:27
Caesiumcaesium--19:27
jeremiahCaesium++19:28
jeremiahfor saying d'oh19:28
Caesiumcan't believe I didn't see that, I've been using theonscreen ctrl in xterm all the time19:28
RST38hjaremiah++++19:28
RST38hjeremiah++++19:28
jeremiahhim too19:28
RST38hdoes not let do +n or ++++19:28
jeremiahRST38h++19:28
javispedro~karma joppu19:28
infobotjoppu has neutral karma19:28
jeremiahFor being so . . . RST38hish19:28
javispedro~[nick name]++19:28
javispedrowithout the ~ infobot's not listening19:29
RST38hjavispedro: so what if I /nick sue ?19:29
javispedro~cookie19:29
* infobot pulls out the cookie jar and finds x+gpm... see gpm+x19:29
jeremiah~RST38h++19:29
joppuNEWSFLASH: Esc in terminal is actually Alt!19:29
RST38hor /nick cookie for that matter19:29
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jeremiah~Caesium++19:29
javispedro~karma RST38h19:29
infobotrst38h has karma of 219:29
inzjoppu, you mean oldsflash?19:29
RST38hjoppy: Yeah?19:29
javispedro~karma joppu19:29
infobotjoppu has neutral karma19:29
jeremiah~joppu++19:29
javispedro~karma joppu19:29
infobotjoppu has karma of 119:29
jeremiahw00t19:30
joppuinz: for me it was :/19:30
inz~inz--19:30
FIQInteresting19:30
inz:(19:30
javispedro~karma inz19:30
infobotinz has neutral karma19:30
javispedro~sue--19:30
FIQ~FIQ--19:30
FIQ~karma FIQ19:30
FIQ~FIQ++19:30
FIQ~karma FIQ19:30
infobotfiq has karma of 119:30
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javispedro~cookie++19:31
javispedroRST38h: there's your answer.19:31
jebbapH5_: cool thx. Looks like they've done a bit of work on it, hopefully front camera will be working soon...19:31
lcuk~*++19:31
* javispedro ponders..19:32
javispedroin the usual packageX and packageX-data split, is the conffile inside the packageX, or inside packageX-data19:32
javispedrotheoretically it is a "arch: all" file, but is also the conffile for the binary, not for the data...19:32
javispedrodata.19:33
KamuiN900damn19:34
KamuiN900how do you write a tilde on the n90019:34
RST38hjavis: ah!19:34
javispedroKamuiN900: btw, Blender won't work unless you magically remove the OpenGL dependency19:34
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kamuijavispedro,19:35
kamuior19:35
kamuior19:35
kamuihow about  a software renderer19:35
kamuiI've already built Mesa successfully.19:35
kamuiso I don't think any magic is needed.19:36
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javispedrono, that's not magic indeed. just slow :)19:36
kamuiactually, it runs fine on muchh slower pocketpcs19:37
kamuiso I think l be ok if I can get past the python dep19:37
kamuiwe'll19:37
kamuinot l19:37
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kamuiso if you have any insite on that portion, it would greatly help push the port forward19:38
javispedroblender on a 240x320 pocketpc?19:38
kamuiyea19:38
kamuiworks fine, a bit cramped, I used to use it on my vga htc exec19:38
kamuiand it was very useful19:38
kamuiwas't as nice on my tilt though19:38
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kamuibut     we have plenty realestate, and theeee 2.5 alpha intttterface is much better19:39
kamuikvm is acting up again19:39
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papohm. I have a very large IMAP account and modest always reports 0 messages. Is this a known bug? I've seen it several times on t.m.o but can't find a bug report for it20:00
villagerit might report more if you enter the folder and wait sufficiently many eternities20:01
papook let's try that20:03
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villagerI've determined that 15 minutes often suffice for me... I switched to Claws mail, works better20:03
jeremiahWhoa. http://www.maemory.com/N900/20:03
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villagerno reason to wait for modest when claws can update in a fraction of the time20:05
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papovillager: Hm. If I wait a couple of minutes in the folder view, the correct number of unread emails appear20:07
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papovillager: however, if I open that folder, the circle-thing at the top spins for a while, then stops and instead of the emails, I get "(No Messages)"20:08
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villagerthen you have to wait a few minutes more while it's downloading something20:09
villagerI think20:09
villagerwait, it stopped spinning?20:09
papoyes exactly20:09
Sir_Lancelotwhat is that maemory stuff??20:10
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papovillager: and while spinning, I did du -s /home/user several times but the number never changed20:10
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villagerI doubt it actually ever caches anything in the folders to disk20:12
villagertoo slow for that to be the case20:12
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papohum ok20:13
villagerwell, I've never had it say no messages after it stopped spinning without the folder actually being empty, so don't know20:13
papotoo bad the exchange sync thing fails as well... :(20:13
RST38hAnyone can tell me what dh_maemolauncher is and whether it is necessary?20:14
villagerso yeah, I recommend using Claws until modest gets better20:14
SpeedEvilIs there a way to ge teh phonje desktop exported over X?20:14
papovillager: Hm ok20:15
SpeedEvilThe whole desktop.20:15
SpeedEvilIdeally not using VNC20:15
papovillager: Just ran modest in debug mode and before it stops spinning, I get20:15
papoCamelException.setv(0x40a23d98, 308, 'Unexpected response from IMAP server:  UID 2271)')20:15
SpeedEviltcpdump it20:15
SpeedEvilsee what it's choking on20:15
SpeedEvilor strace20:15
papoSpeedEvil: actually I think the whole IMAP traffic is outputted to the console, so no need for sniffing20:17
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SpeedEvilpapo: ah - fair enough20:17
papoSpeedEvil: http://pastebin.com/m4def9cc0 FYI20:18
angasule:'( I cloned the jffs to the internal mmc, also installed the boot loader, but the booloader failed to load it20:19
angasuleI'm using fanoush' init thingie, I'm not sure it can boot from ext3, hmm20:20
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javispedroSpeedEvil: Maemo GTK apps do some magic to X so it's dead slow (too many roundtrips)20:30
javispedroVNC is better even for single apps20:31
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RST38hjavis: Looks like your Vultures package has been marinating in -Devel for a while20:31
corecodehey20:31
RST38hPromoted to extras20:31
SpeedEviloh well.20:31
SpeedEvilthanks20:31
corecodeso it seems the n900 is shipping now?20:31
javispedroSpeedEvil: the alternative is NX, I played with it on N810 but building it is a mess20:31
javispedro(btw my guess is that the cause of the slowness is sapwood)20:32
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gandhiiis there an easier way to scroll in gftp?  some sort of shortcut for page up/down?20:34
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SpeedEvil~shortcuts20:35
infobotsomebody said shortcuts was http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures20:35
SpeedEvilaha20:35
SpeedEvilmaybe?20:35
angasuleis there any way to figure out why the bootloader is failing to boot from the internal mmc?20:35
jeremiahheh, cool http://code.google.com/p/storageusage/20:37
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dolfunfinally got trackpoing working on this ibm spacesaver keyboard and it is *so* worth it20:42
RST38hslashdot.org: MicroB -- 15 seconds, Fennec rc1 -- 40 seconds20:42
RST38hengadget.com: MicroB -- 18 seconds, Fennec rc1 -- 120+ seconds20:43
SpeedEvilRST38h: is it running out of RAM and swapping?20:43
SpeedEvilRST38h: or is it just CPU hog20:43
RST38hWho knows? Who cares...20:43
RST38hIt is a memory hog indeed20:44
SpeedEvilwhere'd you get it?20:44
RST38hofficial repo20:44
SpeedEvil?20:44
RST38hactually, the numbers come from a different source, but I can confirm them20:44
dolfunofficial repo20:45
SpeedEvilapt-get install fenec does nothing20:45
SpeedEvildolfun: I want one of those.20:45
RST38hofficial FENNEC repo20:45
SpeedEvilCurrently keyboard is under hte covers and toasty warm.20:45
SpeedEvilFor hte mouse I need to move out intot he cold.20:46
* SpeedEvil is in bed.20:46
dolfunthere's a guy in florida with non-clickey ones for about 40 bux SpeedEvil20:46
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SpeedEvildolfun: yeah - well - that's a problem - international shipping. L:/20:47
SpeedEvilPlus lack of cash currently.20:47
dolfunyes, shipping, customs20:47
dolfundoubles cost20:47
SpeedEvilHence indirectly the need for it - 5C or so in here.20:47
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* javispedro decides to leave the autobuilder alone20:49
dolfunhello javispedro and happy new year20:49
dolfuntakes a lot of time?20:49
javispedroHNY, dolfun20:49
angasulehmm, the end of the line in the bootloader says "N/A"20:50
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angasuleso, partition doesn't exist, cool20:51
javispedrono, I'm just debugging a issue that manifests only in the diablo autobuilder20:51
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javispedrobut every package has 50% of chances to break in the build-dep stage, so.20:52
RST38hhm20:52
javispedrocmake is failing to copy a file, and I dunno why.20:53
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javispedro(I even considered ENAMETOOLONG)20:53
javispedrothe stupid buildsystem could printf the errno, dang it.20:54
javispedrobut nooooo.20:54
kamN900damn20:54
kamN900crosscompiling innnnntroduces all types oproblems20:54
javispedroNo, build systems introduce problems.20:55
dolfunhttp://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andreslc/xen-gl/  wow.  opengl from vnc server or other apps without direct xorg access20:55
kamN900while mesa built fine in fremantle x86 scratchbox, Im having to struggle through the arm build20:55
angasulecomputers should just display source code and humans should interpret it20:55
angasulekamN900: well, no wonder, I'm guessing x86 has been debugged to Hel and back :)20:56
dolfunkamN900 i don't understand what you are doing with mesa20:56
dolfunbesides learning how to build packages20:56
javispedrodolfun: http://depot.javispedro.com/vmgl/ for debian lenny20:56
kamN900dolfun need to build a software rendering build              of mesa for blender20:56
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dolfunah.  i hope it doesn't actually try to use it20:57
GAN900Christ, second cold in two weeks.20:58
angasulethis is driving me nuts :-(21:02
angasuleI can't figure out what's wrong21:02
dolfuni think people complaining about mplayer not playing 820x520 videos are funny21:03
dolfunsomeone even complained mencoded did not encode 800x480 stream from camera21:03
dolfunmencoder21:03
dolfuni should build folding@home for them21:04
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corecodewhat's the advice where to buy a n900?21:05
arachnisti bought mine from nokia's online shop21:07
* corecode blinks21:07
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angasulehmm21:07
corecodearachnist: you're everywhere21:07
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arachnistcorecode: i actually thought this was #dragonflybsd when i saw your nick ;>21:08
corecodeheh21:08
corecodedifferent network21:08
arachnistyes. i realized it's "not here" when your nick missed an @ ;>21:09
corecodeso you got yours yet?21:09
arachnistyes, almoast 6 weeks ago21:09
corecodeo i c21:10
corecodeprice?21:10
arachnist2500pln21:10
corecodeoh wow21:10
corecodethat's expensive21:10
arachnistat current currency rates, it's about 612 euros21:10
arachnistwell, i needed a new phone anyway21:12
corecodei need a data rate plan then21:13
arachnistand i didn't feel like getting a winmo/symbian based device or an iphone21:13
corecodewebos?21:13
arachnisti didn't like the feel of palm pre21:14
arachnist(a friend has one)21:14
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arachnistand there are no good phones with android (with high-res screen, hardware keyboard and a battery that doesn't drain to 30% after half an hour of some game)21:15
arachnist(the last one ruled out motorola milestone)21:15
rantomarachnist: How about Motorola Droid/Milestone?21:15
arachnistrantom: see above21:16
dolfunlandscape format makes more sense for a pocket device with keyboard, imo21:16
rantomGranted though that what I tested from it today I didn't like it's keyboard21:16
javispedrowell, the n900 is much better: the battery only drains to that after 3 hours of some game ;)21:16
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rantom:)21:16
arachnistnot to mention that the keyboard on the droid/milestone doesn't feel good21:16
dolfuni reccommend external charger and spare battery for full day use21:16
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hrwhi21:17
arachnistoh, and getting openvpn/vpnc running on android phones is quite a hassle21:17
rantomarachnist: That's the main reason why I got N900. HTC had one good phone which was similar to N900 but it had Windows Mobile on it. No thanks21:17
arachnist(yes, i do need it sometimes)21:17
hrwbtw... does someone know which version of hildon-desktop is in fw1.1?21:17
javispedrohrw: there's a branch in gitorious21:18
hrwthx21:18
hrw2.2.120 will be21:19
javispedrodunno the exact number21:19
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hrwjust checked21:19
hrwwill have to hand build h-d after fw1.1 then21:19
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hrwhttp://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop/hildon-desktop/commit/e731282a59924e3bbb84ea6647736ed6c0fc0245 removes second level from lancher21:20
hrwI have it in SDK and looks nice21:20
javispedronice21:21
javispedroit was being time21:21
javispedro:)21:21
arachnistso, after an update, there will be no "More..." button?21:21
hrwarachnist: no, 1.1 will have it21:21
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rantomAnyone else having a problem to reply directly via email to the sender?21:21
tigertso its all one level with scroll?21:21
arachnisthrw: as i said, after an update21:21
rantomI tried it today and it left the recepient field empty21:21
dolfunyou can put whatever you want on the front page of icons21:21
hrwtigert: it is21:21
GAN900I love the broken sorting in recent versions.21:22
tigerthrw: ok21:22
tigertI guess there is a way to hack sort21:22
tigertthe sort is stored somewhere anyway21:22
arachnisthrw: do you know if it'll be possible to reorganize icons in there?21:22
dolfundoesnt it go by timestamps?21:22
dolfunold to new (2nd page)21:22
dolfunthe sort for first page is defined in some textfile21:22
arachnistif it would go by timestamps a simple "touch" on files would do the trick21:23
javispedroit does21:23
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javispedroon the 2nd page.21:23
GAN900Manual sort for default stuff then alphabetical for installed stuff in new versions.21:23
javispedroalphabetical??21:23
javispedroah well21:23
javispedroat least they'll stay put and not move around randomly after an apt-get upgrade21:23
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hrw"Enable to activate status menu in portrait mode." - also after 1.1 stuff21:24
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angasuleinsmod: cannot insert `/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/ext3.ko': Unknown symbol in module (-1): No such file or directory  <-- umh?21:24
javispedrosee dmesg21:25
angasuleaah, jbd21:25
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JaffaGAN900: It's worse than that, actually21:26
GAN900Jaffa, what's the bug number?21:26
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JaffaGAN900: Since I made them all sorted, I realised that they're sorted by .desktop filename, not localised label21:27
JaffaGAN900: Erm, let me check21:27
GAN900Ah, nice.21:27
JaffaObviously sub-optimal with osso-...21:28
* javispedro envisions commercial app X shipping "0X.desktop" file21:28
hrwangasule: do not use insmod - use modprobe21:28
javispedroby the kernel version, I guess that's diablo, and there modprobe requires some previous work21:28
hrwbtw - can someone create wiki page which will list scm locations of maemo components?21:29
JaffaGAN900: #735021:29
Stskeepshrw: i'll have a report of that coming out in january21:29
dolfunanyone can, hrw21:29
javispedrobug #735021:29
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7350 MADDE 0.5's dpkg replacement does not work with --search reliably21:29
Jaffabug #7450, sorry21:29
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7450 Application sorting ignores first 12 items21:29
hrwStskeeps: cool21:29
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hrwdolfun: sure, but not everyone knows them21:29
Stskeepshrw: listing licensing status of everything, if it depends on closed stuff, if it only exists on device etc21:30
hrwJaffa: first 12 are in /etc/xdg/menus/hildon.menu?21:30
hrwStskeeps: something like packages.debian.org would be great to have21:30
dolfunoh we have the webmaster here21:30
dolfunIt would be great to get the licenses from Loki Games.21:32
angasuleYAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYyyyy, it's booting from the internal mmc :) let's see if it all works21:32
hrwdolfun: I would rather prefer to get (L)GPL sources of calendar21:33
dolfunyes21:33
hrwthis app suxx so badly that it is not relaeased to show how ugly source is21:33
angasulehmm21:34
dolfunI think it looks pretty21:34
Jaffahrw: No, that's first screen, More... is /etc/xdg/menus/hildon/applications.menu21:34
hrwJaffa: right21:34
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angasulein the control panel, memory, Storage has device and internal memory card, both with the same size, but no external card, hmm21:34
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Jaffahrw: What does packages.debian.org have that's useful that maemo.org/packages/ doesn't21:34
dolfunhrw to see your events, go to "week view".21:35
hrwdolfun: please..... do not get me started to list maemo5 calendar bugs21:35
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angasuleJaffa: search description (and more search options in general)?21:37
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dolfunit does everything i would expect in a bundled app, really.  it is interesting how perceptions differ.21:37
hrwJaffa: what maemo.org/packages lacks: links to source (diff, dsc, tarball), bugtracker...21:38
angasuleJaffa: links to related packages (if you go to openssh's page, debian allows you to go to -server and -client)21:38
hrwdolfun: really??? it does not allow to set alarm time in usable way (1:15 for example), does not allow to set alarms for 1st monday of month, does not allow to set repeat each 3rd friday21:39
hrwdolfun: does not allow to remove ONE occurance of repeatable event21:39
gandhiidolf:  true.  different people use calendar apps differently i guess.21:39
hrwdolfun: lists all calendars as 'local' but lacks support for non-local ones21:39
hrwdolfun: does not allow to define own colors for calendars21:40
hrwdolfun: require lot of clicks just to do something21:40
hrwdolfun: lacks text previews in month view - look at nokia eseries calendar or handycalendar/s6021:40
Jaffahrw: It links to bug tracker if package declares one, FWIW21:40
RST38hThe new law makes blasphemy a crime punishable by a fine of up to Á¬25,000... The government says it is needed because the republic's 1937 constitution only gives Christians legal protection of their beliefs.21:41
RST38h(next time you go to Ireland, keep this in mind)21:41
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hrwdolfun: so it does a lot less then simple calendars from other platforms21:41
SpeedEvilRST38h: I note the law specifies a number of people have to be upset by it - without giving consequences.21:41
SpeedEvilRST38h: I do wonder what happens if they recieve ten thousand signatures protesting against an insult to the FSM.21:42
hrwdolfun: maemo5 calendar reminds OpenedHand Dates which now is ~3 years old21:42
RST38hSpeed: The define blasphemy as anything offending christians21:42
SpeedEvilRST38h: that's been changed.21:42
RST38hthe rest can be blasphemed against as much as needed21:42
RST38hSpeed: really?21:42
SpeedEvilyes.21:42
SpeedEvilsee the line you pasted21:43
RST38hoh, shit, lawsuit galore21:43
hrwJaffa: but not gives sources ;(21:43
dolfunCalendar is a fresh 1.0 bundled app on a new OS using a new UI metaphor.21:44
RST38hIn related news, .CZ legalizes drugs21:44
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angasulehmm, funny, I have /dev/mmcblk1p1 on / , also rootfs on / and /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc2 (which shows the same data as 1p1 on / )21:45
angasuleRST38h: legalises or decriminalises?21:45
angasuleah, yes, decriminalises, same as in Buenos Aires21:46
RST38hWell, as you are even allowed to grow it, I guess it is legalisation21:46
nomisis it possible to disable vibration on the clock alarm?21:46
RST38hyes21:46
hrwhttp://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/tmp/pic20.jpg is what hildon-desktop HEAD shows as first screen21:46
nomisRST38h: where?21:46
RST38hnomis: profiles I think21:47
RST38hhrw: you mean, the first screen with More is gone?21:47
nomisRST38h: it should vibrate on SMS and Ringing.21:47
dolfunhrw, please compare apples to apples.21:47
hrwRST38h: right21:47
angasuleRST38h: no, they are different things, here in Argentina it's also legal to grow it and consume it21:47
nomisit is just that the vibration totally kills the silently-sneaking-in-effect of the wakeup sound.21:48
hrwdolfun: so I should compare it to /usr/bin/cal then21:48
angasuleI want the external SD card to show up, but I'm afraid of touching anything since both 0p1 and 1p1 seem to be the internal memory...21:48
RST38hhrw: You do know that it is configurable and you can even create folders there>21:49
hrwRST38h: cool21:49
RST38hangasule: When does it become legalisation then?21:49
RST38hhrw: http://maemos.ru/2009/12/28/making-folders-icons-n900/21:50
* hrw -> movies21:50
hrwbye21:50
hrwthx RST38h21:50
angasulehttp://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Fall06/Panzer/legal.html21:50
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angasuleit says Reefer Review on the title, so you know it's right :P21:50
RST38hok, so legalisation is when people start driving trucks full of this stuff?21:51
dolfunRight, like Broccoli21:52
dolfuna bunch of loudmouths sitting in a room have no moral right to define which objects you may own21:53
* SpeedEvil did some broccoli today.21:53
SpeedEvilSmoking that shit will fuck you up.21:53
dolfunafk food21:53
angasuleRST38h: apparently21:53
angasuleSpeedEvil: broccoli is evil21:53
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angasulealso, tomatoes, I hate tomatoes21:54
SpeedEvilangasule: And it can be TALLER THAN YOU!21:54
angasuleI have the munchies, cheers21:54
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SpeedEvilangasule: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/3563641682/in/set-72157619014257011/21:55
SpeedEvilThe brocolli jammed the wood chipper.21:55
SpeedEvilWhich was tearing through 5cm thick normal branches21:56
* RST38h knew he had a reason to be suspicious of broccoli21:56
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dolfun http://handheld.softpedia.com/images/software/screens/Handy-Calendar-S60-5th-Edition_6.png   /me LOLS22:00
lcuk~hopbeat++22:00
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angasuleSpeedEvil: I tell you, they are trying to take over the world22:09
angasuleso, if I have mmcblk1p1 on / and mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc2 but both are the internal memory, who do I call? the ghostbusters? :?22:10
phreckheh22:11
angasuleI think the 1p1 is an oddity of the bootloader, but still, I'm afraid to touch the real 1p1, and I have no real clue on how to get it to automount22:12
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angasulehelp?22:15
angasulepretty please?22:15
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tekonivelmI've installed a variety of Contacts plugins, but none of them appear in the accounts list to be configured :(22:16
tekonivelmOnly Ovi, Jabber, Skype, Google, Skype and SIP. No msn, irc or any other niceones22:17
tekonivelmdpkg --audit doesn't say anything22:18
tekonivelmI wonder...22:18
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RST38hA study in 1981 estimated that the dose from using a thorium mantle every weekend for a year would be 0.3-0.6 millirems, tiny in comparison to the normal annual dose of a few hundred millirems, although a person ingesting an entire mantle would receive a comparable dose of 200 mrem22:21
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xnt14Hi, I'm trying to compile the maemo5 sdk, I get these errors: http://pastebin.ca/1735389 any ideas?22:21
xnt14I'm on a x86-64 system22:21
zashtekonivelm: telepathy-haze & co?22:21
RST38h-64 <-- problem22:22
xnt14hmm22:22
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xnt14I followed the instructions to disable vdso3222:22
tekonivelmBugger!22:22
xnt14on the wiki22:22
tekonivelmYeah i have telepathy-haze et al22:23
xnt14hmm22:23
xnt14so the only way to run this is to use a vm?22:23
tekonivelmI have most telepathy-\* packages installed22:24
angasuleRST38h: reading slashdot, I see22:24
angasuleRST38h: unfortunately, thorium can be used to create nuclear weapons too22:24
angasule(or fortunately, depends on how much of a mad scientist you are)22:25
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tekonivelmI wonder if my telepathy* packages are in fact conflicting22:27
angasuleI tried 'sfdisk /dev/mmcblk1p1' and it rebooted itself, hmm22:27
ifreqhas there been some probs with repos today?22:27
ifreqappmanager fails atleast to update some repos22:27
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xnt14nevermind, its working22:28
angasulehmm, I see data=ordered , but I changed osso-mmc-mount.sh to data=writeback :?22:28
* luke-jr is back to debating his purchase of a N900 :x22:28
RST38hangasule: reading wiki22:29
RST38hslightly amused by the idea of consuming a gas mantle22:30
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angasuleRST38h: heh yes22:32
dolfunindia expects first thorium reactor online this year iirc22:32
angasuleluke-jr: you want to buy an N900 *waves hand*22:32
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luke-jrangasule: do I?22:37
luke-jrangasule: if so, only because Nokia failed to deliver with the N810 what was advertised22:37
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luke-jrbut when new phones have 512 MB of *real* RAM, I'm not so sure22:37
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Wolfieluke-jr: it really depends on what you want from your new gizmo22:38
Wolfieif you want a phone that has some tech capabilities, n900 isn't perhaps for you. If you want a tablet with some GSM capabilities, N900 is a strong competitor22:38
luke-jrWolfie: N810 would be fine if Linux supported it and it had a little more RAM, tbh22:39
phreckhuh?22:39
phreckwolfie what do you mean by "tech capabilities"22:39
luke-jrphreck: Facebook! :p22:40
phreckfb runs sweet on the n900 lol22:41
luke-jrI'm sure it does.22:41
luke-jrhis point is that N900 is not a phone22:41
phreckok22:41
phreckjust didnt sound right, this is a very capable device, in either category.22:42
phreckjust needs some software =P22:42
dolfun!topic22:42
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gevaertsIs there a repository somewhere that has curl for maemo 5 (n900)?22:43
luke-jrphreck: that's the problem with N81022:43
phreckthats always the issue hehe22:43
luke-jrphreck: care to test the internal SD speed for me BTW? :P22:43
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phrecksure22:44
Wolfiephreck: i think it's more a question of luke-jr's meaning of the words22:44
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angasuleuh oh22:44
phreckonce im done w this fennec install ill test it22:45
Wolfienow, showertime22:45
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phreckssd or sd luke?22:45
luke-jrphreck: eMMC or whatever22:45
luke-jrdon't care about the NAND22:45
kamN900holy shit22:46
kamN900it only took   3 hoursssss22:46
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phreckwha?22:46
kamN900but I built mesa for armel target22:46
luke-jrlol22:46
b-man17rofl22:47
phreckfack. is there a howto for that luke =P22:47
kamN900now i just            need to that python.h issue resolveed22:47
luke-jrphreck: great, care to do it?22:47
kamN900and blender is here!22:47
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phreckyea22:47
kamN900hey luke-jr22:47
phreckill do it22:47
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luke-jrkamN900: hi22:47
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ShadowJKluke-jr, what speed are you interested in?22:53
SpeedEvilluke-jr: about 12M/second read, and IIRC 10M write22:53
angasulelightspeed!22:54
luke-jrShadowJK: read/write22:55
ShadowJKluke-jr, just sequential read/write?22:56
luke-jrsure22:57
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luke-jrfor comparison, my HD seems to do 30-40 MB/sec write ;)22:58
luke-jrand extremely strangely, about 15 MB/sec read O.o22:59
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phreckwow. fennec is slowwwwww23:01
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dolfunit is very good that they built it for maemo, so people can appreciate microb23:02
dolfunfennec is 'normal'23:02
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phreckyea..23:02
phrecki dig the ui and features. its too slow though23:03
SpeedEvilIf you remove the 3.6V battery, put in a 9V one, and overclock to 1800MHz, it's not bad.23:05
phreckhahahaa23:05
phreckfor the one minute the dive lasts.23:05
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ShadowJKluke-jr, I get 9.6M write, 19.4M read23:07
ShadowJK(per sec)23:07
kamN900im very close23:07
* ShadowJK moved swap to microsd so it wouldn't interfere :)23:07
luke-jrhmm23:08
kamN900for configures that require it, ./configure --host=armel23:08
kamN900?23:08
SpeedEvilluke-jr: 9 min 13s for 1gb write23:08
luke-jrkamN900: all configures require it only when cross compiling...23:08
SpeedEvilon ext2 formatted mmc23:09
ShadowJKIt's funny how the device names are kinda swapped around like on N810..23:09
SpeedEvilShadowJK: is that on the mmc or on the nand?23:10
ShadowJKI guess they get renamed at some point, and the old name sticks around for some things23:10
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, mmc23:10
tekonivelmDoes anyone know where telepathy config files live?23:10
ShadowJKMyDocs23:10
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luke-jrShadowJK: would you buy a N900 for $320?23:11
SpeedEvilluke-jr: without hesitation.23:11
luke-jrXD23:12
luke-jreven though you already have one?23:12
SpeedEvilluke-jr: however at that price I would want to make sure my card company would stand behind it if it died.23:12
SpeedEvilluke-jr: if I had the spare cash, yes, to flip on ebay.23:12
luke-jrhehe23:12
luke-jrif it died?23:12
luke-jrdo N900 die often?23:12
SpeedEvil?23:12
ShadowJKSome of them come dead in the box ;)23:13
SpeedEvilnI have no idea.23:13
luke-jrShadowJK: really?23:13
xorAxAxluke-jr: where can it be bought for that price?23:13
luke-jrxorAxAx: I'll announce it *after* I order mine XD23:13
luke-jrin case it's an error, I want to be the one who gets it... :p23:13
ShadowJKluke-jr, seems there are two things that happens, one is where some units seem unable to wake up from sleep, and then there are some people reporting mic problems23:14
ShadowJK(and then the silent majority of N900s that work fine)23:14
luke-jrwouldn't Nokia have to replace it if it were dead?23:14
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ShadowJKYes23:15
SpeedEvilluke-jr: in some cases.23:15
clmntchhello23:15
ShadowJKThey have 2 year warranty in europe and 1 year in the US afaik23:15
SpeedEvilluke-jr: in some cases, the retailer may have that responsibility.23:15
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ShadowJKIt's the seller's responsibility in .fi according to law, but Nokia's website seems to indicate that they're willing to deal with it directly too. Dunno how it is elsewhere23:16
luke-jrbetter to pay w/ CC or PayPal in this area?23:16
SpeedEvilluke-jr: cc - you're in hte UL?23:17
SpeedEvilUK23:17
luke-jrUSA23:17
SpeedEvilWhy did I think you were in the UK.23:17
Stskeepsluke-jr: anything where you can claim an transaction was fraudulent23:17
SpeedEvilodd.23:17
SpeedEvilhmm.23:17
SpeedEvilext2 write on mmc - ~2M/s - read - ~2023:17
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: external?23:20
luke-jrhmm23:20
* luke-jr should probably use his Citi card; it generates credit card numbers per-transaction23:20
ShadowJKext2 will expose some of flash's hate of non-sequential writes :)23:20
SpeedEvilno23:21
SpeedEvilext3 rather23:21
dmj7261kamN900: Are you Shinkamui?23:21
SpeedEvilInteresting.23:21
SpeedEvilrewriting the file is ~9M/s23:22
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ShadowJKext2/ext323:23
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ShadowJKSD/MMC is designed to run on vfat :)23:23
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svanheulenso um i reflashed my n900 and everything seems to be fine but the LED doesn't work any more23:33
svanheulenany ideas on what i can try?23:33
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cehtehhuh23:36
cehtehthats odd23:37
Proteousdas blinken light is dead23:37
SpeedEvilyou mean the notification LED?23:37
cehtehtry a reboot23:37
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cehtehmaybe the uC is out for lunch23:37
cehtehyou can try to set some colors manually, but the uC will/should eventually overwrite your settings23:38
cehtehunless its stuck then i guess a reboot (possibly with removing battery) will fix that23:38
b-man17do you guys think it's worth it to enable ext4 support on the N900?23:39
svanheuleni tried a normal reboot, i'll try pulling the battery next23:39
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gevaertsIs it normal that an n900 gets warm while using GSM/GPRS/UMTS?23:40
cehtehb-man17: i want to setup a kernel git for the n900 maintaining community kernels, and possibly some configs, needs some helpers23:40
ifreqanyone got working converstation msn-plugin atm?23:41
SpeedEvilgevaerts: yes23:41
b-man17cehteh: sure, i might be able to help :)23:41
gevaertsSpeedEvil: thanks. That means mine probably isn't broken :)23:41
cehtehon my laptop ext4 gives a noticeable performance improvement, i if building a new kernel i would give it a try23:41
cehtehplus iptable, crypto and some more features i need23:42
cehtehbut so far i had no time to care for kernel23:42
b-man17i think it's worth it :)23:42
cehtehgevaerts: open 'top' in a terminal and see if some process sticks at almost 100% cpu .. if not all is ok (or install conky to watch)23:43
gevaertscehteh: it's not a cpu thing. I checked23:43
cehtehthen its likely ok23:43
* cehteh doesnt used data connection extensively yet23:43
gevaertsThe battery doesn't last very long with a data connection, but nothing I can't cope with23:44
b-man17cehteh: just to let you know, i don't have an N900 yet - so i might be a tad limited to what i can do :(23:44
svanheuleni really haven't noticed a difference between ext3 and 4 on my desktop23:45
svanheuleni have heard it ruins sqlite performance though23:45
cehtehcan you switch back to gsm only? .. that has some disadvantages but needs a lot less juice23:45
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gevaertsfor talking that should work fine23:45
cehtehsvanheulen: my laptop has a very slow 1.8" hdd .. you notice any performance thing with that :)23:45
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cehtehgevaerts: for slow data like email notifications, IM and so its also fine, but usually you cant talk and data at once in gsm only23:46
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gevaertshm, yes. That might be annoying23:46
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mkargar_hello23:47
gevaertsI'll have to experiment a bit23:47
mkargar_what is maemo 5 root pass?23:47
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cehtehthere is none or at least not known .. install the rootsh package23:48
cehtehthen you can sudo gainroot and be root23:48
b-man17mkargar_: maemo doesnt have a root passwd; just install rootsh23:48
corecodeclick ordered23:49
b-man17or it doesn't have one by default ;)23:49
cehtehinstalling ssh ask for a new password (user i think?)23:50
cehtehwell i disabled all passwords and do only key logings23:50
tigertssh-server you mean23:50
cehtehyep23:50
tigertopenssh client doesnt set password23:50
cehtehcould be23:50
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tigertthe server does (for obvious reasons)23:50
cehtehi just need both23:50
tigertI just install the server if I need to ssh in23:51
cehtehwell 'obvious' is questionable .. imo it would be fine to disable logins by default23:51
mkargar_b-man17:i have not internet on n900!it pissible that download and install manuelly?23:51
tigertdont want to keep the port open in the 3g network all the time23:51
tigertsince my gsm provider has public ip pool23:51
tigertwhich is nice if I want to ssh in23:51
tigertbut not fun the rest of the time23:51
cehtehi set up openvpn :)23:51
b-man17mkargar_: install it from the application manager ;)23:51
gevaertsopenvpn is pretty much essential :)23:51
cehtehgives you roaming :)23:52
b-man17mkargar_: or go to maemo.org and install it from the downloads section23:52
mkargar_b-man17:it possible without internet mobile?23:52
tigertopenvpn does mobile ip stuff?23:52
tigertlike so it can handle ip changes etc?23:53
tigertthat would be interesting if it does23:53
b-man17mkargar_: not too sure without root access23:53
gevaertstigert: I never had a problem with that. You'll have a stalled connection for maybe a minute every now and then, but that's about it23:53
tigertgevaerts: I mean if you switch from wlan to 3g etc23:54
gevaerts"every now and then" == "every time it has to reconnect due to a changed IP"23:54
tigertit handles that?23:54
tigertok23:54
b-man17mkargar_: try using the wifi ;P23:54
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tigertbut that needs a host in the net that acts as a recipient point of course23:54
* tigert needs to look into this more23:55
tigertwould be interesting for sure23:55
* cehteh tried to setup openvpn to migrate seamless from normal (home wlan) connection ... with some routing tricks23:55
tigertnow I am just lazy and use 3g also at home23:55
tigertits faster than my dsl anyway ;)23:55
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cehtehworks, but not well enough, i possibly put my accesspoint into a dedicated vpn network :/23:55
ifreqcan someone confirm apt-get update is working ok for all repos (inc extras-testing /devel)23:56
tigertand I use the N900 more than the laptop too23:56
gevaertsyes, if you want to migrate between openvpn and no openvpn, it will be a bit tricky23:56
tigertsince it does more or less everything23:56
phrecknew xchat woks nicely23:56
tigertexcept graphic design and photo editing23:56
tigertifreq: extras-devel usually has the "hash" problem23:56
cehtehhaha .. gimp on the n900 :P23:56
gevaertsit has a terminal, ssh, and a compiler. What more do you need?23:56
tigertmaybe due to a bad mirror or a non-atomic file update23:57
cehtehwith 1000'o'windows .. and constant switching :P23:57
svanheulenSo I took out the battery and even tried charging while it was off and the LED still does nothing :(23:57
tigertifreq: it usually works after a while23:57
tigertcehteh: heh yeah23:57
tigertor inkscape23:57
gevaerts(except curl, zip and a non-prehistoric version of make of course)23:57
ifreqtigert: okay, need to wait a bit then23:57
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tigertcehteh: 10 pixels to a millimeter is not really something to use with your thumbs to do design work :)23:57
cehtehtigert: inkscape might actually work well23:57
fralshttp://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell lol23:57
tigertcehteh: would if one had a good UI that handled zoom to the actual work area well23:57
cehtehi am a ion user on my laptop and configured inkscape to use only one window23:58
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tigertinkscape works ok with the dock ui23:58
tigertsince those are all in one window23:58
mkargar_b-man17:i testet more time!but,not worked!(i want sharing my dsl connection(lan0) by wlan0!but,doesn't work)23:58
gevaertscehteh: no ion on the n900 yet?23:58
xorAxAxcehteh: do you plan to develop software for your n900?23:58
tigertthe 250 DPI canvas is the problem23:58
cehteh12" laptop .. zoom on scroll wheel .. panning on middle button, thats awesome working on small display23:58
* gevaerts would actually like that23:58
cehtehxorAxAx: want to help me? i am thinking about a automatic profile switcher23:59
xorAxAxcehteh: maybe, if i have time23:59
cehtehxorAxAx: already hacked a little bit, but rather brainstorming yet23:59
xorAxAxcehteh: python, ok? :)23:59
b-man17mkargar_: do you have a regular data connection? (gsm, ect..)?23:59
cehtehxorAxAx: lua & C at least i started with lua23:59

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