IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-12-21

Macer	ugh. i am lost	00:00
worluk_	hm, stupid question, is there anything i could forget after installing the openvpn applet, causing it to not show up on my N900?	00:01
Macer	i can connect to the pptp vpn on my dd-wrt wifi router from the outside. but i can't ping anything else on teh local subnet other than the router	00:01
Macer	anybody have any ideas?	00:01
* lcuk giggles @ the droid forums		00:01
lcuk	the topic "what are the first things you are gonna do with your droid" brings about normal crappy responsed	00:02
lcuk	s	00:02
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lcuk	Macer,	00:03
DocScrutinizer51	Arkenoi: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/gdb	00:03
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Macer	lcuk: heh. sorry. was just hoping someone here was having similar vpn problems	00:03
Macer	:)	00:03
Macer	i already asked in dd-wrt heh	00:03
lcuk	can you ping the router once you are on the vpn	00:03
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lcuk	damn	00:04
lcuk	its ok missed your last thing	00:04
lcuk	lol	00:04
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AakashPatel	whats the arg's to add to make to make it use the scratchbox compiler?	00:13
lcuk	theres usually no changes required to build inside scratchbox	00:15
AakashPatel	:/	00:16
lcuk	and i call "make" whether im inside, outside or on device	00:16
AakashPatel	Yeah Im doin that but i get...	00:16
AakashPatel	make: i686-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: Command not found	00:16
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AakashPatel	I'm tryin to compile the new version of pidgin-facebookchat	00:17
Macer	AHHHH	00:17
Macer	AakashPatel: tell me why i can't ping anythign other than the router	00:17
Macer	when connected to a dd-wrt pptp vpn :(	00:17
Macer	it's killing me .. i don't know what i'm missing here	00:17
AakashPatel	lolol	00:17
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AakashPatel	lcuk: in the make file the compiler is set has	00:18
AakashPatel	LINUX32_COMPILER = i686-pc-linux-gnu-gcc	00:18
AakashPatel	as*	00:18
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lcuk	AakashPatel, urg, mine simple calls gcc	00:19
woglinde	~lart maemo for not containing automake.10	00:19
* infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking maemo's head off for not containing automake.10		00:19
woglinde	args 1.10	00:19
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Corsac	hmhm, is there a way to adjust jabber priority?	00:20
Macer	omg	00:20
AakashPatel	wtf	00:20
AakashPatel	i intsalled purple0	00:20
Corsac	ha, #2141	00:20
AakashPatel	but it still doesnt have /usr/include/libpurple and stuff	00:21
AakashPatel	OH	00:21
AakashPatel	haha	00:21
AakashPatel	i needed libpurple0	00:21
AakashPatel	>.<	00:21
AakashPatel	...which is already installed	00:21
AakashPatel	:/	00:21
Corsac	This WILL NOT be fixed for Maemo5/Fremantle.	00:21
Corsac	mpf.	00:21
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jebba	ShadowJK: ffmpeg failed on builder but works locally. Trying to get to the logs to find out why, but looking at a spinning cursor: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/ffmpeg_0.5+svn20090706-4/	00:22
woglinde	jebba I wonder why you arent in #ffmpeg	00:23
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fnordianslip	jebba: probably buggered set up phase - there's a timeout in my logs	00:25
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AakashPatel	ahhh	00:26
AakashPatel	wtf is up	00:26
AakashPatel	with this	00:26
woglinde	poor maemo.org	00:26
fnordianslip	someone should put it out of its misery	00:27
jebba	heh	00:27
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jebba	woglinde: i can barely keep up with all the windows i have open already ;)	00:28
woglinde	g	00:28
woglinde	heh	00:28
AakashPatel	ahh	00:29
AakashPatel	someoen try compilng pidgin-facebookchat :P	00:29
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woglinde	jebba -> --extra-cflags="-mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfloat-abi=softfp -mfpu=neon"	00:30
woglinde	not good with i386	00:31
woglinde	try harder	00:31
woglinde	to fix the debian package	00:31
fnordianslip	ooh. fail :)	00:31
jebba	gah, ShadowJK, the build went fine for armel, failed for i386 haha., cuz of the cflags i suppose....	00:32
sivang	woglinde: FPUless machine?	00:32
woglinde	hm I see many debian packages are in ugly state as many autotools software is	00:32
jebba	man, i hope the builder is running ccache ;)	00:32
woglinde	both is failure of maintainers	00:32
jebba	gah, will fix that for ffmpeg. kinda spaced the i386 thing...	00:33
woglinde	no	00:34
woglinde	your rules file is wrong	00:34
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LuciusMare	hi	00:35
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LuciusMare	is n900 getting the maemo 6 ?	00:35
ml-mobile	unknown	00:36
LuciusMare	:(	00:36
hcarrega	n900 its now out	00:36
jebba	woglinde: ya, i see the thing, i fixed it. I put it in the if armel section	00:36
woglinde	hm anyone familiar with liblocation?	00:36
hcarrega	i maemo 6 apear like the delay off n900	00:37
hcarrega	u will w8	00:37
jebba	i edited the two at the same time, but was thinking i had it under there and didn't do a i386 build shame on me.	00:37
LuciusMare	i know	00:37
LuciusMare	i mean, you cant update,right?	00:37
woglinde	or with gypsy stuff in fremantle?	00:37
sivang	woglinde: you should see the mips port...	00:37
sivang	woglinde: almost everything is broken there in cross compile	00:37
sivang	woglinde: (debian, that is)	00:38
woglinde	hm okay	00:38
woglinde	gispy is only used for bt-mice	00:38
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LuciusMare	ooh	00:40
LuciusMare	You can connect a BT keyboard to the device?	00:40
woglinde	hm maybee the fremantle developer guide has somethin	00:41
woglinde	LuciusMare sure	00:41
woglinde	LuciusMare you could do that even with diablo	00:41
LuciusMare	^^	00:41
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woglinde	~lart poor maemo.org	00:41
* infobot farts in poor maemo.org's general direction		00:41
* LuciusMare digs in this crate of unused hardware		00:41
Gadgetoid_mbp	Where the hell is Flash in Android?	00:42
LuciusMare	There is not	00:42
Gadgetoid_mbp	I'm doing browser speed comparisons between the Droid and N900	00:42
Gadgetoid_mbp	Droid is slower to load the same page without flash, or tends toward the mobile version	00:42
LuciusMare	then you fail at this,afaik droid does not have and is not capable of playing flash	00:43
oscillik	lol	00:43
Gadgetoid_mbp	But but but	00:43
Gadgetoid_mbp	It says Flash 10!	00:43
LuciusMare	Hm	00:43
LuciusMare	okay,wrong	00:43
woglinde	damn seems I have to write an liblocation plugin for navit	00:43
LuciusMare	I stopped caring about droid when the g1 came out	00:44
LuciusMare	it seems like they already got it	00:44
LuciusMare	then,i do not the hell know	00:44
Gadgetoid_mbp	Oh fscking hell, no flash until 2010?	00:44
LuciusMare	haha	00:44
LuciusMare	There you are,androids!	00:44
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Gadgetoid_mbp	jQuery cycle works like balls on Android, too	00:44
LuciusMare	I guess you will have to do the test without flash	00:44
Gadgetoid_mbp	Well, I call it in the N900s favour	00:45
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Gadgetoid_mbp	timeless: good job on MicroB, you win, pat yourself on the back	00:45
timeless_mbp	:)	00:45
LuciusMare	aw,crap	00:45
LuciusMare	what day is it?	00:45
Gadgetoid_mbp	And by win, I mean fscking pwn	00:45
timeless_mbp	i'll try to remember to tell my coworkers tomorrow	00:45
sivang	Gadgetoid_mbp: Driod as in Andriod ?	00:45
LuciusMare	I just accidentally reseted all my clock	00:46
Gadgetoid_mbp	Droid as in Android on the Motorola Droid which is confusingly and infrigingly named thus	00:46
LuciusMare	it says 1.1.2000	00:46
LuciusMare	And i dont know what day is it.	00:46
LuciusMare	hm	00:46
LuciusMare	what does mbp mean?	00:46
Gadgetoid_mbp	Macbook Pro	00:46
Gadgetoid_mbp	MacBook Pro, even	00:47
LuciusMare	oh	00:47
sivang	I already asked :)	00:47
Gadgetoid_mbp	Or Most Bodacious Penis	00:47
LuciusMare	timeless_mbp: you puttle apple sheeple!	00:47
Gadgetoid_mbp	IIt's very telling that all I can come up with on short notice tends to involve penis	00:47
LuciusMare	Gadgetoid_mbp: Suck it,lets just blow the problems.	00:48
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Gadgetoid_mbp	I need another heavy website to test this shiznit	00:48
Gadgetoid_mbp	ah yes PORN!	00:48
LuciusMare	what the hell was that	00:48
LuciusMare	i heard a scream by my window	00:48
Gadgetoid_mbp	Oh damn, no Flash facepalm	00:48
* LuciusMare goes over to look		00:48
* LuciusMare curses the winter		00:48
LuciusMare	its freakin frozen	00:48
LuciusMare	and i dont dare to open it	00:49
timeless_mbp	Gadgetoid_mbp: fwiw, pr0n on the n900 is generally not going to work	00:49
sivang	Gadgetoid_mbp: www.williamhillpoker.com :)	00:49
timeless_mbp	the standard for pr0n testing is you pr0n	00:49
Gadgetoid_mbp	timeless_mbp: I wish MicroB had google's find-as-you-type integrated though	00:49
timeless_mbp	and it requires more cpu power than we have	00:49
Gadgetoid_mbp	timeless_mbp: video porn sites work like a dream on the n900	00:49
timeless_mbp	google's find as you type?	00:49
Shapeshifter	guys, could somone please just quickly tell me how people launch the terminal on the n900, how the user prompt looks like, and how the root prompt looks like?	00:50
Gadgetoid_mbp	Sorry, I mean "suggest"	00:50
timeless_mbp	you mean chrome? android? other?	00:50
timeless_mbp	oh	00:50
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timeless_mbp	do you mean just for the urlbat	00:50
sivang	Shapeshifter: you want to launch it? you have the device ?	00:50
LuciusMare	Shapeshifter: what are you running,right now on your desktop?	00:50
timeless_mbp	s/at/ar/	00:50
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: do you mean just for the urlbar	00:50
oscillik	i really don't understand why people are complaining in reviews about the "heft" of the N900 - it's not that big at all, my E90 is longer and thicker than the N900	00:50
Gadgetoid_mbp	When you type something into the browser address bar it pops up lovely suggestions	00:50
Shapeshifter	sivang: no I don't have it, that's why I'm asking	00:50
timeless_mbp	ok	00:50
timeless_mbp	yeah well...	00:50
Gadgetoid_mbp	oscillik: oh come on, the N900 is a fatty!	00:50
oscillik	it isn't	00:50
LuciusMare	it looks just like a normal prompt	00:50
Shapeshifter	LuciusMare: archlinux both machines, I consider myself an expert by now ;)	00:50
LuciusMare	okay	00:51
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Shapeshifter	LuciusMare: yeah but how exactly	00:51
LuciusMare	so it looks like a bash.	00:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	And so is the E90!	00:51
sivang	Shapeshifter: you need to install it	00:51
LuciusMare	er	00:51
Shapeshifter	bla@n900 # or what	00:51
LuciusMare	What?	00:51
LuciusMare	I expected it being preinstalled	00:51
Shapeshifter	I mean, what does it say.	00:51
GAN900	Shapeshifter, tap the menu button, tap More... tap X Terminal	00:51
LuciusMare	someone@something $:	00:51
SpeedEvil	or add it to desktop	00:51
oscillik	Gadgetoid_mbp: well, if you want to flash your phone in front of some girls in the hopes of gettin' some, then by all means go for another phone :p	00:51
LuciusMare	er	00:51
LuciusMare	someone@something:~$ i guess	00:51
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GAN900	Or press ctrl-shft-x	00:51
Shapeshifter	LuciusMare: yeah but, on the n900, what exactly ;)	00:51
timeless_mbp	http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/gallery/2009/12/20/GA2009122001750.html?hpid=topnews ??	00:51
Shapeshifter	GAN900: thanks	00:52
LuciusMare	badass@n900:~$	00:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	oscillik: I don't need to whip my phone out for that, just a feather boa and a shiny glittered plastic hat	00:52
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GAN900	Shapeshifter, or add a shortcut to Home.	00:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	Oh and they also have to be very, very drunk	00:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	Woah browser bugorama!	00:53
jebba	woglinde: ok, building ok i386. /me facepalm... btw, i think we're going to need some more space for /scratchbox it appears! That thing is filling up fast. I have lots more space on another drive (360G free), but it's currently on a RAID-0 SCSI system, which is much faster of course... ;)	00:53
Arkenoi	e90 impressed girls much more ;-)	00:53
woglinde	jebba g	00:53
Shapeshifter	LuciusMare: and the root shell?	00:53
Shapeshifter	and what does it use as "badass"?	00:54
sivang	jebba: fakeroot apt-cache clean ?	00:54
Gadgetoid_mbp	JESUS CHRIST ANDROID I JUST WANT TO CLICK A FUCKING LINK	00:54
Shapeshifter	name you give at the beginning?	00:54
* Gadgetoid_mbp headbuts Droid		00:54
sivang	Gadgetoid_mbp: hehe	00:54
zash	Gadgetoid_mbp: LOL WUT?	00:54
woglinde	sivang we compile a lot of stuff	00:54
LuciusMare	Shapeshifter: chucknorris@n900:~$	00:54
jebba	sivang: more like rm -rf ~/kernel ;)	00:54
sivang	jebba: eh :)	00:54
Gadgetoid_mbp	fuckfuckfuckfuck!N AEEOEOO	00:54
woglinde	jebba I could delete some stuff from me	00:54
Shapeshifter	LuciusMare: I'm not sure you understand my question.	00:54
jebba	it's only 20G there now.	00:54
sivang	jebba: or make clean ?	00:54
sivang	:)	00:54
GAN900	Shapeshifter, or add a systemui.xml entry to add a shortcut to the power menu.	00:55
Shapeshifter	LuciusMare: on the n900, how exactly is the prompt made up? what does it say before the @. Where does it take the username from	00:55
Gadgetoid_mbp	Okay, now I know why the 5-way nav on the Droid selects links... it's fucking impossible to tap on a specific link when there are several in close proximity	00:55
zash	Gadgetoid_mbp: Maemo > Android?	00:55
jebba	woglinde: i think i may move my /home/jebba dir on the host system to the fat partition, and then dedicate that whole partition to /scratchbox, which would bring us from 20G to 55G	00:55
AakashPatel	wtf	00:55
LuciusMare	no idea,hell	00:55
AakashPatel	is up with extras-devel	00:55
jebba	woglinde: anyway, no real big hurry, still go 3G left...	00:55
LuciusMare	i guess it takes the username from the user that is just logged in	00:55
Gadgetoid_mbp	Nah zash, resistive kicking capacitives ass	00:55
LuciusMare	just as any shell	00:55
Shapeshifter	So, can anyone else tell me what the n900 shell prompts for user and root look like?	00:56
zash	Gadgetoid_mbp: what does that have to do with the os?	00:56
AakashPatel	i try to use it but get some No Hash entry in Release file error	00:56
Shapeshifter	LuciusMare: yeah but the n900 is hardly a multi user env ;)	00:56
Shapeshifter	and the username has to come from somewhere	00:56
Gadgetoid_mbp	Sod all zash :) I'm talking about the Droid, not Android	00:56
LuciusMare	THEY typed it.	00:56
Shapeshifter	LuciusMare: when	00:56
Shapeshifter	LuciusMare: first setup?	00:56
sivang	Shapeshifter: when creating the user	00:56
Gadgetoid_mbp	High resolution + capacitive really doesn't work :(	00:57
Shapeshifter	sivang: on the n900, when you buy it you first create a user?	00:57
LuciusMare	holy crap	00:57
LuciusMare	no	00:57
LuciusMare	the nokia developers set it	00:57
Shapeshifter	LuciusMare: dude I'm not talking about "any" prompt	00:57
zash	Gadgetoid_mbp: install maemo on it! :P	00:57
LuciusMare	i know	00:57
Shapeshifter	LuciusMare: but _the n900_ as you're holding it in your hands	00:57
Gadgetoid_mbp	zash: That wont make it not suck, sadly	00:57
sivang	Shapeshifter: I would assume so, when you do your first setup, or not, the others would be more knowledgable as I don't own a one :)	00:57
Shapeshifter	sivang: me neither else I'd just look for myself xD	00:57
sivang	timeless_mbp: ^^	00:58
sivang	?	00:58
* timeless_mbp is confused		00:58
sivang	Shapeshifter: there's probably a default user which you can modify the real name or something.	00:58
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Shapeshifter	timeless_mbp: I was asked how the shell prompts for user and root look like on the n900	00:58
timeless_mbp	~ $	00:59
sivang	Shapeshifter: that's the same as on any other linux box that's running a shell	00:59
infobot	from memory, $ is a dollar sign	00:59
Shapeshifter	*asking	00:59
timeless_mbp	/home/user #	00:59
sivang	Shapeshifter: and you can configure it, as you can in bash	00:59
Shapeshifter	timeless_mbp: thank you!!	00:59
Shapeshifter	timeless_mbp: I think you're the first who got my question.	00:59
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Shapeshifter	sivang: yeah but I was asking how it is out of the box nothing touched for any user	00:59
Shapeshifter	sure you can make it anything	00:59
sivang	Shapeshifter: ah, I see.	00:59
timeless_mbp	Shapeshifter: all things considered, your original questions were confusing	01:00
Shapeshifter	timeless_mbp: :( I'm sorry I should have been more clear	01:00
timeless_mbp	philipl: oh, you exist	01:01
LuciusMare	oh,crap	01:01
LuciusMare	00:01	01:01
LuciusMare	i am going to freaking work tommorow	01:01
LuciusMare	er,today	01:01
Gadgetoid_mbp	Hmm, from "Medical Emergency" to "Naked Angels In Beach Paradise" .... whew, ARGH NAKED MEN!	01:01
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jebba	asterisk 1.6.2.0-3 OK :)	01:01
Shapeshifter	timeless_mbp: mh, and the root prompt?	01:01
Shapeshifter	I spotted this on the forums: Nokia-N900-42-11:~#	01:01
timeless_mbp	Shapeshifter: i'm using 'rootsh'	01:02
timeless_mbp	out of the box, you can't really get a root shell	01:02
timeless_mbp	you need to do one of the following:	01:02
timeless_mbp	enable-rd-mode	01:02
timeless_mbp	install rootsh or something like it	01:02
timeless_mbp	install sshd	01:03
Shapeshifter	I assume most novices will use rootsh? If you're using rootsh, how will the root prompt look like?	01:03
timeless_mbp	it's not that the device is locked, it's just that... you don't need root and pretty much all you can do is break your device with it	01:03
timeless_mbp	i used rootsh	01:03
timeless_mbp	and there should be no 'novices' :)	01:03
timeless_mbp	i gave 2 prompts	01:03
timeless_mbp	the first was user, the second was immediately after sudo gainroot	01:04
timeless_mbp	(the user prompt is incredibly boring, since you start in ~)	01:04
sivang	timeless_mbp: what's enable-rd-mode ?	01:04
Shapeshifter	timeless_mbp: oh, I'm sorry I missed the first one	01:04
timeless_mbp	Shapeshifter: you have to get used to how prompts look	01:05
timeless_mbp	# is typically reserved for root	01:05
jebba	sivang: an option you can pass to the n900 using the flasher-3.5 program. R&D research & development. But you really dont want to run it that way.	01:05
sivang	jebba: ah, I see thanks	01:05
AakashPatel	What the dir for Documents?	01:05
timeless_mbp	sivang: r&d mode is basically "give me as many ways as possible to ruin my battery life"	01:05
Shapeshifter	timeless_mbp: I use zsh and just > ;)	01:05
sivang	timeless_mbp: hehe	01:05
gomiam	AakashPatel: /home/usr/.documents?	01:05
timeless_mbp	AakashPatel: ~/MyDocs/.documents/	01:05
timeless_mbp	gomiam: your spelling is awful :)	01:06
sivang	jebba: why is not osso-xterm listed in app manager even when the respective repo is enabled ?	01:06
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timeless_mbp	the user account is 'user', not 'usr'	01:06
AakashPatel	HH	01:06
gomiam	timeless_mbp: don't worry, my mind is even worse :P	01:06
AakashPatel	ahh	01:06
AakashPatel	i had my usb plugged in lol	01:06
* sivang is trying to install the terminal app for the last 3 hours. Congrats. It is nearly to impossible on the SDK :)		01:06
timeless_mbp	AakashPatel: yeah well... if you do that, ~/MyDocs will be exported...	01:06
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jebba	sivang: probably doesn't have Section: user/foo in it's debian/control file.	01:09
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sivang	jebba: can I fix it then and dupload ?	01:09
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Shapeshifter	timeless_mbp: I could have just looked at the screenshot for the rootsh package -.-	01:10
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jebba	sivang: well, they probably left it out intentionally as it is considered a core package.	01:11
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Shapeshifter	now these questions might all seem weird, but I'm just writing a quick intro into the shell and it's a bit hard without having the actual device :\| Could someone please post the output of uname -a for demonstration purposes?	01:15
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timeless_mbp	surely google can answer that?	01:15
woglinde	sivang write bug report there paid nokia emplyoees	01:16
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timeless_mbp	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba	01:16
Shapeshifter	timeless_mbp: mh, you're right. Is this correct: Linux Nokia-N900-42-11 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Wed Oct 28 15:32:55 EET 2009 armv7l unknown	01:16
timeless_mbp	has it under 'kernel'	01:16
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timeless_mbp	dunno	01:17
timeless_mbp	i'm not running sales	01:17
Shapeshifter	ah well thanks.	01:17
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timeless_mbp	hrm, the maemo-org theme is odd	01:17
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timeless_mbp	sadly, the orange does not contrast well against the gray	01:17
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bleader	Shapeshifter: Linux Nokia-N900-42-11 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Wed Oct 28 15:32:55 EET 2009 armv7l unknown	01:18
jebba	ok, a very nice burgerspace has finally made it into the repo :)	01:18
Shapeshifter	bleader: thank you so much.	01:18
jebba	i'd a told ya Shapeshifter but my uname -a would give you something different ;)	01:19
philipl	timeless: for some values of exist :-)	01:19
timeless_mbp	philipl: with a genuine @maemo.org address?	01:19
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timeless_mbp	and packaging the bluetooth dun thing to at least extras-testing	01:19
Shapeshifter	jebba: well, different timezone, different time, possibly different version	01:19
woglinde	I wonder when 2.6.32 will come	01:19
timeless_mbp	i tried my hand at packaging it myself...	01:19
timeless_mbp	philipl: an icon for you: http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/bluetooth-dun-upstart-0.1/icon.png	01:20
timeless_mbp	(if you want it)	01:20
an0therb0x1	help i can't use my camera on the nokia n900 will on a call	01:21
AakashPatel	okay i moved libfacebook.so to /usr/lib/purple-2/	01:21
jebba	i built up a 2.6.32-omap1 using the rx51_defconfig from the 2.6.28-omap1 kernel and it built but the very last step it failed linking due to missing symbols in some mmc thing IIRC. Lots was missing from that kernel though that's in nokias 2.6.28....	01:21
AakashPatel	but it still doesnt show up in teh protocals list	01:21
AakashPatel	any dieas?	01:21
AakashPatel	ideas	01:21
an0therb0x1	interesting issue	01:21
sivang	woglinde: I would or create a depatch or something	01:21
woglinde	jebba hm	01:21
jebba	sivang: you talking about it not appearing the the app manager? If you want it there, open a bug report saying it's not there and they probably need to add Section: user/foo to the debian/control file. done.	01:22
AakashPatel	Oh my god	01:22
AakashPatel	i got facebook chat workin in pidgin	01:23
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jebba	heh	01:23
jebba	nice	01:23
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jebba	well, maybe not nice. i can't stand facebook :P	01:23
AakashPatel	hah	01:23
sivang	jebba: will do	01:23
jebba	but still, nice job ;)	01:23
woglinde	lol socialnetworks are evil anyway	01:23
jebba	uh, ok, so ASTERISK is in the repo now. A very fine version, i might add. :)	01:24
SpeedEvil	repotastic.	01:24
jebba	fone localhost :)	01:24
SpeedEvil	Does it take calls from 3G and auto-answer?	01:24
woglinde	jebba hm n900 as voip-machine	01:24
philipl	timeless_mbp: it's a genuine maemo.org address, but that comes with the garage account.	01:24
SpeedEvil	:)	01:24
woglinde	SpeedEvil should be possible	01:24
philipl	Thanks for the icon. I'll use it :-)	01:24
jebba	would be rad to tie it into the GSM hardware for damn sure, but for now just does SIP & IAX2	01:25
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jebba	oh, but ya, over 3G it would work fine.	01:25
woglinde	jebba you have to package lcr now	01:25
jebba	same as any data connection.	01:25
SpeedEvil	yeah - I meant GSM	01:25
jebba	heh.	01:25
SpeedEvil	:)	01:25
woglinde	most users use asterisk with lcr now	01:25
woglinde	or a lot of	01:26
jebba	least cost routing? Is there such a package for it though? I've set up (crude) LCR in the past. very crude...	01:26
woglinde	jupp	01:26
jebba	woglinde: pointer to what you're talking about? like a package of it??? asterisk lcr google is going to give me abillion random hits.	01:26
woglinde	yeah I am searching	01:26
sivang	jebba: so how does a n900 user installs it the first time if it does not appear in the app manager?	01:27
jebba	i see a perl module, but yikes.	01:27
sivang	errr, perl	01:27
jebba	sivang: the terminal comes with the device.	01:27
GAN900	Woo, Avatar 3D time.	01:27
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jebba	sivang: so probably really not needed a Section: they'll likely close WONTFIX or INVALID	01:28
woglinde	jebba -> http://www.linux-call-router.de/	01:28
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jebba	woglinde: uh, that's all ISDN stuf....	01:29
woglinde	jebba hm I am seeing its german specfig	01:29
woglinde	because of isdn	01:29
sivang	jebba: ah, and I thought they wanted to hide it...	01:29
woglinde	he you can connect a usb-isdn card	01:29
sivang	jebba: oh well	01:29
woglinde	to n900	01:29
jebba	that's a totally different thing than Least Cost Routing	01:29
woglinde	jebba right	01:29
jebba	which is what i assume you wanted with LCR	01:30
jebba	http://search.cpan.org/~jhiver/Asterisk-LCR-0.03/lib/Asterisk/LCR.pm that one seems possible	01:30
woglinde	no	01:30
jebba	oh	01:30
woglinde	but its okay	01:30
jebba	ah, well least cost routing would be very cool too ;)	01:31
jebba	but the other LCR will have to wait until the fone gets a PCI slot.	01:31
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SplasPood	yay, found proper ruby packages for the N900	01:31
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LuciusMare	^^	01:31
LuciusMare	but what is it for?	01:32
jebba	LuciusMare: what is what for?	01:32
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LuciusMare	ruby	01:32
LuciusMare	ruby packages at n900	01:32
jebba	ah, it's like python, but japanese	01:32
AakashPatel	hey guys	01:33
pwnguin	heh	01:33
AakashPatel	who should i give this lib to?	01:33
AakashPatel	for facebook chat for pidgin	01:33
AakashPatel	the one in the repos are outdated	01:33
SplasPood	LuciusMare: so I can write stuff in ruby	01:33
jebba	LuciusMare: see: http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/	01:33
LuciusMare	oh	01:33
LuciusMare	okay,okay	01:33
LuciusMare	i just thought that ruby...	01:33
LuciusMare	actually	01:33
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LuciusMare	ruby is something like php	01:34
LuciusMare	mainly web technology	01:34
SplasPood	I wouldn't directly equate the two	01:34
sivang	thanks jebba , you've been most helpful. I wish the wiki was as such :)	01:39
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jebba	sivang: I AM THE WIKI	01:40
sivang	jebba: heheh, he wished :)	01:40
sivang	or "it" wished	01:41
jebba	LuciusMare: ruby on rails is web. Ruby is used for whatever. Like python. But Japanese.	01:41
sivang	jebba: Nokia should hire you	01:41
jebba	heh	01:41
AakashPatel	okay pidgin sucks on maemo	01:41
sivang	AakashPatel: isn't it better to use other preseance clients?	01:41
AakashPatel	preseance?	01:42
sivang	hrm	01:42
sivang	how'd ya spell it ?	01:42
AakashPatel	chat?	01:43
AakashPatel	idk lol	01:43
AakashPatel	conversation	01:43
AakashPatel	presence?	01:43
sivang	yeah, I should get to sleep :)	01:43
sivang	night all	01:43
AakashPatel	night	01:43
sivang	thanks again jebba	01:43
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jebba	np	01:44
jebba	sleep well	01:44
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Ha ha ha	01:47
Gadgetoid_mbp	"I'm a PC, and easier wireless was my idea"	01:47
Gadgetoid_mbp	Nothing to do with the paltry few seconds it takes a Mac to acquire a wireless signal when woken from sleep, then? Nothing to do with Mac's wake on wireless? Pfft	01:48
pwnguin	wake on wireless?	01:49
pwnguin	as in "wake me up if any network traffic comes in?"	01:49
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Yup pwnguin	01:50
Gadgetoid_mbp	Me likey wake on wireless	01:50
AakashPatel	o.o	01:50
pwnguin	that sounds like a battery drain	01:50
AakashPatel	it can do that?	01:50
AakashPatel	:0	01:50
* AakashPatel is on a mbp irght now		01:50
pwnguin	aakash: preliminary linux support: http://lwn.net/Articles/333075/	01:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	Mine certainly can, AakashPatel... I tried it with ftp once	01:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	But now I don't use my laptop much outside work	01:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	Doesn't WOL if I've brought it back from work sleeping in my bag	01:51
AakashPatel	thats sweet	01:51
pwnguin	so if you sleep with adium or pidgin on	01:51
* AakashPatel needs to try it out soon		01:51
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Gadgetoid_mbp	That would be WAN, pwnguin, so it wouldn't wake up	01:52
AakashPatel	aww D:	01:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	Although you can, in theory, do it	01:52
pwnguin	Wide area network?	01:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	Yeah traffic coming in from yonder tinternet doesn't wake it up, methinks, but I could be wrong	01:53
Gadgetoid_mbp	That I have not tried	01:53
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pwnguin	you'd also have traffic going out to mantain TCP connections	01:53
AakashPatel	i think it would be bad ifi t idid	01:53
Gadgetoid_mbp	Gawd knows how it works, but it does	01:53
AakashPatel	lol	01:54
AakashPatel	bbiab	01:54
pwnguin	you said you tried it out once? you have to enable it?	01:54
pwnguin	if its not on by default, it probably doesn't work intelligently as one hopes	01:54
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Gadgetoid_mbp	I don't think so, pwnguin	01:56
pwnguin	oh, http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/28/a-closer-look-at-snow-leopards-wake-on-demand-feature/	01:56
Gadgetoid_mbp	I just tried to FTP into it	01:56
pwnguin	apparently you need an apple base station	01:56
pwnguin	so it can offload advertising	01:56
Gadgetoid_mbp	Yeah I've got one, because OSX doesn't fscking work well at all with any other make	01:57
Gadgetoid_mbp	Or at least, not with Belki	01:57
pwnguin	hah	01:57
pwnguin	it works with our campus Cisco just fine	01:57
Gadgetoid_mbp	I made the mistake of buying a shitty glossy consumer draft N router	01:58
pwnguin	and nobody's complianed about my linksys	01:58
Gadgetoid_mbp	It, and OSX, did not get on well at all	01:58
Gadgetoid_mbp	so I just thought "fuck it", took it back, and replaced it with the Airport Extreme	01:58
pwnguin	so basically, it's not a generic wake on tcp	01:58
Gadgetoid_mbp	Shame about the lack of DynDNS support	01:58
pwnguin	it's a wake on magic wlan packet	01:59
pwnguin	with special airport sauce	01:59
pwnguin	for specific services	01:59
Gadgetoid_mbp	Hahaha	01:59
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pwnguin	its more for light load servers than your macbook	02:00
pwnguin	or i suppose its a way to get at your macbook files with less hassle	02:01
Gadgetoid_mbp	Aye, I use FTP to grab stuff off my mbp to my N810/900	02:01
Gadgetoid_mbp	Too lazy for USB	02:02
pwnguin	i just use my NAS	02:02
pwnguin	interestingly, the NAS supports upnp, which the n900 sees	02:02
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Yeah, me needs a Buffalo Linkstation	02:03
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pwnguin	ive seen some hardware that runs debian quite well	02:04
Gadgetoid_mbp	Wait a minute, the Droid is a 550mhz ARM Cortex A8!?!?!?!?	02:04
pwnguin	yes	02:04
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Gadgetoid_mbp	I thought it was Snapdragon....	02:05
Gadgetoid_mbp	Wow....	02:05
pwnguin	http://www.cyrius.com/debian/	02:05
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pwnguin	i thought snapdragon was MIPS. must have confused it with something else	02:05
pwnguin	either way, sounds like a power hog	02:05
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pwnguin	sadly, most of the videos on my NAS can't be played by the default n900 player	02:06
LuciusMare	nooo	02:07
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Yeah and mplayer eats root like a starving rabbit	02:08
eitreach	pwnguin, have you installed the extra decoders support?	02:09
Macer	wow	02:09
pwnguin	eitreach: i installed ogg	02:09
Macer	i have been trying to find out wtf is wrong with this damn pptp setup	02:09
Macer	Linksys WRT54G V4 with factory firmware (or DD-WRT firmware) cannot forward GRE 47 protocol from WAN-to-LAN	02:09
pwnguin	eitreach: not sure about the rest; what's the package name?	02:09
eitreach	pwnguin, you can install a whole bunch of extras.. So far I haven't found anything I can't play afterwards.	02:09
eitreach	pwnguin, "decoders support", I believe.	02:10
pwnguin	(also, these are like 720p or 1080)	02:10
eitreach	It's in extras-testing, as far as I remember.	02:10
eitreach	oh. I haven't tried HD-movies yet.	02:10
eitreach	only with strange and obscure encodings.	02:10
pwnguin	its mostly anime	02:11
pwnguin	lemme get some stats on an example	02:11
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jebba	<chant>bur-ger-space bur-ger-space bur-ger-space</chant> All install it now! <chant>bur-ger-space bur-ger-space bur-ger-space</chant>	02:11
jebba	burgerspace, now in extras-testing :)	02:12
eitreach	pwnguin, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/d/	02:12
pwnguin	Stream #0.0(und): Video: h264, yuv420p, 848x480, 29.97 tbr, 29.97 tbn, 59.94 tbc Stream #0.1(und): Audio: aac, 48000 Hz, stereo, s16	02:12
Gadgetoid_mbp	I wonder how long I'll remain banned from #android, I just wanted to let them all know how much the Droid sucks	02:12
T7g	I take it the dosbox in the repos isn't hildonized? (or keymapped correctly) - I got syndicate running on it earlier, the only real issue I had was not having a true mouse, it sort-of worked but you could never really get a "fix" on the pointer, it would always be an inch away from where you were pointing.	02:12
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jebba	hah	02:14
pwnguin	eitreach: already installed	02:14
pwnguin	im surprised dosbox works on arm	02:14
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eitreach	then I'm stumped.	02:15
pwnguin	im not surprised	02:15
eitreach	gadgetoid-mbp, is the droid that bad?	02:15
pwnguin	h264 is cpu heavy	02:15
Gadgetoid_mbp	syndicate, T7g, nice!	02:15
Gadgetoid_mbp	eitreach: yes, yes, and yes	02:15
pwnguin	without DSP support it's probably a nogo	02:15
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pwnguin	even if it's nearly the right size for the screen	02:15
eitreach	gadgetoid_mpb, I had a HTC Magic.. It was nice for Google-stuffs, but with multimedia it sucked bad. Same thing about the droid?	02:16
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T7g	I was pretty amazed when the syndicate movie played nearly perfectly, perhaps I should get a tiny bluetooth mouse to take along with me.	02:16
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Here's what it has going for it: an 856*480 resolution screen	02:16
Gadgetoid_mbp	Here's what it doesn't: everything else	02:16
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Well it has almost no internal storage,and you can't swap MicroSD cards in and out without first removing the battery... sucky enough for you?	02:16
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eitreach	that's bad, yeah.	02:17
Gadgetoid_mbp	I WANT to love it, I want an excuse to waste £50 getting one with a phone contract for my N900, I WANT to love it	02:17
Gadgetoid_mbp	But it's shit	02:17
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T7g	it's motorola, they make pretty phones (like razr) but I haven't seen them make any truly useful phones	02:18
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Gadgetoid_mbp	The Droid is definitely not pretty	02:18
Gadgetoid_mbp	The DEXT is, though	02:18
T7g	heh, make you take the battery out to switch sd cards, ewww	02:20
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Yeah, that's tragic combined with no internal storage	02:20
Gadgetoid_mbp	basically kills the Droid dead if you like to hot swap out absurd amounts of media	02:21
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pwnguin	meh. just grab a ridiculusly large microsdhc	02:22
toggles_2	hmm.. http://twitter.com/daedaluz/statuses/6875457945 really?	02:24
eitreach	Meh. That's telling me a little too late.	02:25
pwnguin	or too early	02:25
zash	toggles_2: hm, pricedrop on n900? hopeful	02:26
toggles_2	lol too late for me too	02:26
Gadgetoid_mbp	Ha, I got mine for £350 anyway	02:26
Gadgetoid_mbp	£50 less if my TopCashBack ever gets paid... which is unlikely	02:26
jebba	pfft. twitter knows, ya right,.	02:26
toggles_2	lol	02:27
Gadgetoid_mbp	Haha, that Twitter smells like bullshit	02:27
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jebba	pricedrop when they can make enough of them. Hell seems amazon is raising the price. It's more now than when i ordered it.	02:28
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Gadgetoid_mbp	I can just imagine Nokia execs saying "Let's alienate our entire fanbase, render our current OS obsolete and render our current hardware obsolete before we've even opened up a commercial store for it!"	02:28
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jebba	well, simple fact is that maemo 6 just isnt going to be there by then i seriously doubt. But go get the git tree and check it out if you really want to know	02:29
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mikhas	just check the other twitter posts of that account ... this is just a hoax	02:30
jebba	got anymore BS for us toggles_2?	02:31
* mikhas feels cheated for wasting time on twitter ... again!		02:31
Milo-	maemo5 wasn't ready for normal users so why would maemo6 be?	02:31
jebba	toggles_2 is trolling methinks.....	02:31
toggles_2	lol, not me the rss app poped it up on me n900	02:31
T7g	dude talks about getting banned from 4chan on his twitter, he's obviously a troll :p	02:31
SpeedEvil	I see nothing wrong with 5 for normal users that don't enable extras-dev	02:31
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jebba	SpeedEvil: ?	02:32
SpeedEvil	->milo	02:32
Milo-	SpeedEvil not enough applications, no store, and no manual comes with n900	02:32
jebba	ah. ya.	02:32
Milo-	it wasn't made for end users	02:32
Milo-	n900 is toy for developers	02:32
jebba	Milo-: not enough apps cuz everyone is tired of looking at spinning cursors on the website. You can't even give a package in -testing good karma.	02:33
jebba	great toy :)	02:33
Milo-	jebba exactly	02:33
Milo-	and extras isn't enabled by default	02:33
* jebba hits ctrl-5 (reload) on browser pointed at maemo.org/packages for 50th time....		02:33
Milo-	and normal user won't stumble upon _how to_ enable extras by accident	02:33
jebba	well, extras they could. It is there already, they just need to uncheck it. THey could stumble upon that.	02:34
SpeedEvil	not enough apps - yet	02:34
SpeedEvil	It's been a month	02:34
jebba	they ain't gonna add extras-testing accidentally	02:34
SpeedEvil	In 3 I'd expect to see a fair number more apps	02:34
jebba	and if the website stays like this there's only gonna be like 30 more apps by next month.	02:34
Milo-	SpeedEvil yes but as for 'end users'	02:34
Gadgetoid_mbp	Sheesh, Expansys have put the N900 up by £5, haha	02:34
Milo-	apps and store is necessary for real end users to feel comfortable	02:34
villager	Milo-: I think extras got enabled for me when I installed something from maemo select	02:35
jebba	here's a great one for endusers :) install burgerspace and if it works for you give it karma++ http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/burgerspace/1.8.3-17/	02:35
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Milo-	jebba end users don't want to have anything to with the community websites	02:35
Milo-	community = communism	02:35
jebba	Milo-: they dont' have to have anythign to do with community websites	02:35
Milo-	if they have to vote, then they do :)	02:36
jebba	what the hell do they know about maemo. They just see "oh extra apps" <CHECK> done.	02:36
Milo-	jebba but they won't be able to _see_ that button anywhere	02:36
jebba	Milo-: they don't have to, just if enough devs do. But plenty users would to IF IT FUCKING WORKED.	02:36
fnordianslip	end users shouldn't be trusted to vote. look who they elect into governements.	02:36
jebba	Milo-: sure, it's not that buried. Users will find that one for sure eventually.	02:36
pupnik	++	02:36
Milo-	jebba I wouldn't have any faith in the end users on that matter	02:37
jebba	wooo! I got my page to load!	02:37
pupnik	alright, who has experience with sdl->alsa and grotty sound	02:37
Milo-	even I had trouble finding that checkbox	02:37
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jebba	Milo-: its just a freaking checkbox. It's not like they have to open a terminal or enter any URL or anything.	02:37
Milo-	though, finnish is confusing in technical terms	02:37
pupnik	i can get 4 seconds of clean sound if i output at 48khz, start alsamixer and exit it	02:37
pupnik	maybe 6	02:38
Gadgetoid_mbp	Jesus Christ I hate PC World adverts	02:38
zeenix	Milo-: finnish is confusing anyways :)	02:38
Milo-	zeenix ._·	02:38
jebba	Milo-: you make no sense. What's finnish got to do with it?	02:38
zeenix	jebba: his phone speaks finnish to him	02:38
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jebba	ah, well if you have it set to that language....	02:39
Milo-	finnish doesn't describe technical terms as you would expect	02:39
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Milo-	and if you set your phone's language to english, the date format is all messed up	02:39
jebba	you can change date format even in english	02:39
jebba	iirc	02:40
SpeedEvil	jebba: no, you can't	02:40
zeenix	Milo-: it is?	02:40
Milo-	jebba you can't	02:40
Milo-	it's a known bug	02:40
SpeedEvil	jebba: there is a fixed date format displayed in settings per language	02:40
Milo-	zeenix uses mm/dd/yyyy :/	02:40
SpeedEvil	Milo-: number?	02:40
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zeenix	Milo-: even with british enlish?	02:40
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jebba	ah, just decimal separator and stuff.	02:40
Milo-	oh actually it's dd/mm/yy for uk	02:41
* zeenix agrees with Milo- that american date format is just non-sense		02:41
Milo-	but that's still wrong	02:41
zeenix	yes, it certainly is :)	02:41
Milo-	dd.mm.yyyy > everything else	02:41
zeenix	even yyyy.mm.dd makes sense	02:42
SpeedEvil	zeenix: but sorts	02:42
Milo-	SpeedEvil https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6363 and https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=463	02:42
povbot	Bug 6363: Date format should be defined by Regional Settings, not Device Language	02:42
povbot	Bug 463: Date format should be user defined	02:42
zeenix	at least it's better than google speaking to me in the lang of the place i happen to be at that time	02:43
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zeenix	i was in spain the other day and it showed me the temperature of helsinki in spanish :)	02:44
Milo-	heh	02:45
Gadgetoid_mbp	http://www.gadgetoid.com/2009/12/21/nokia-n900-versus-motorola-droidmilestone/ ahh, nothing like a rant thinly veiled as journalism	02:46
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Gadgetoid_mbp	First page of google for "nokia n900 versus motorola droid" ... for now at least	02:47
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gtessier00	Hi everybody, anyone here has the Nokia N900?	02:49
Gadgetoid_mbp	<--	02:49
henningms	<--	02:49
yuizy	<--	02:49
lcuk	<--<--<-	02:49
luke-jr_	for the sake of reducing spam, you should probably ask who doesn't	02:50
Gadgetoid_mbp	Obligatory troll is obligatory	02:50
gtessier00	hahaha alright... I have a small concern about it, and I'd like to have your advice... I'm from canada and tomorrow I will get one. Did any1 of you received it DOA? I know there are a lot of problems concerning the MIC	02:50
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Mine was fine	02:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	Haven't bricked it yet, either, fingers crossed	02:51
luke-jr_	gtessier00: more likely that has to do with which batch it came from ;)	02:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	My iMac was fine too	02:51
ml-maemo	anyone see my question earlier?	02:51
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Gadgetoid_mbp	I obviously have a courier that doesn't drive all their parcels around in a large cement mixer	02:52
T7g	Anyone know an easy way to force a fsck on a filesystem at boot? not /forcefsck or the shutdown command, n900 doesn't like either.	02:52
T7g	I switched app/mydocs and mounting it via usb leads to two linux systems mounting the same filesystem and that's kinda caused some data loss.	02:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	ml-maemo: nope	02:52
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Milo-	<--	02:53
ml-maemo	ok	02:54
ml-maemo	is the vim package optified?	02:54
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Milo-	yes	02:54
Milo-	if it wasn't, it would have a bug report	02:55
Milo-	and I can clearly see it in the /opt/maemo/usr/*/vim	02:55
ml-maemo	cool	02:55
Gadgetoid_mbp	NOOO NOO NAEO an article calling the Snapdragon "Far superior" than Arm A8, and looking only at raw megahertz values!	02:55
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SpeedEvil	loltards.	02:55
Gadgetoid_mbp	I wish there was an informed article out there	02:56
Milo-	Gadgetoid_mbp I can make one	02:56
Gadgetoid_mbp	I don't want to write it myself, it'll be ill informed	02:56
SpeedEvil	It's the internet!	02:56
Milo-	just cat few thousand characters from /dev/urandom	02:56
luke-jr_	Milo-: I'm not sure that has anything to do with the CPU <.<	02:56
luke-jr_	please do it based on calculating pi	02:57
luke-jr_	kthx	02:57
Milo-	Who says random characters isn't informal?	02:57
Milo-	made up numbers are just as useful as calculated numbers	02:57
Gadgetoid_mbp	Haha	02:57
Milo-	so why wouldn't the same thing apply to informal text?	02:57
luke-jr_	Milo-: no, random will bottleneck on the RNG	02:58
Milo-	potato tomato	02:58
luke-jr_	random data is hardware-generated, not CPU-generated	02:58
Milo-	and I never said I was going to give accurate data about the CPU	02:58
Gadgetoid_mbp	Milo-: Face it, you need to be dumb to troll	03:00
Gadgetoid_mbp	Smart troll is too smart	03:00
Milo-	I wasn't trolling ._·	03:00
Milo-	you obviously missed the Dilbert reference, so let me point it out for you: http://u.meelo.org/dilbert/AccurateNumbers.png	03:01
Gadgetoid_mbp	Subtle troll is subtle	03:01
Gadgetoid_mbp	Dilbert troll is dilbert	03:01
Gadgetoid_mbp	Sorry, I read too much Garfield	03:01
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Gadgetoid_mbp	I clearly need to study more Dilbert	03:04
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pupnik	ok i really need to know this. what program/process in maemo5 keeps touching the mixer? i need to suspend that	03:04
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Gadgetoid_mbp	HTC Sense UI, which is based on the principles: "Make it mine," "Stay Close" and "Discover the Unexpected,"	03:05
Gadgetoid_mbp	vomit	03:05
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Oh dear, a review favouring a capacitive touchscreen over resistive because "it's more responsive"	03:12
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T7g	eh, let the people buy shit, they'll just always continue to be jealous of the real gadget geeks ;p	03:13
Gadgetoid_mbp	True T7g, but it's a sign of terrible things to come	03:13
* SpeedEvil ponders how to sell inductive touchscreens to the unwashed.		03:13
Gadgetoid_mbp	Can you imagine a future when we have absurdly high definition screens... coupled with horribly inaccurate finger-only input?	03:13
SpeedEvil	finger input that could track which finger - and the orientation could be stupidly powerful	03:14
Gadgetoid_mbp	Those of us with working eyes would be doomed forever to prod and poke hopelessly at tiny URLs with our nacho-fattened fingers, or constantly zoom in and out	03:14
Gadgetoid_mbp	SpeedEvil: the only solution I want is a combination of btoh	03:14
Gadgetoid_mbp	Or both	03:14
Gadgetoid_mbp	BTOH... almost BOFH... dun dun DUN	03:15
Gadgetoid_mbp	Well the one article i actually bothered to finish reading turned out in favour of the N900. Conclusive evidence that my viewpoint is, indeed, the correct one	03:16
Gadgetoid_mbp	Believe me, if the Droid was better than the N900 I'd be ebaying my N900 for a profit and buying a Droid on contract a couple of days ago	03:17
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Preaching to the choir... whee!	03:17
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jebba	got wxwidgets2.6 to build on armel :)	03:20
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Gadgetoid_mbp	I'd say I love you, if I knew what the hell that was	03:21
jebba	cross-platform toolkit. Not sure how it's gonna look on maemo thoguh. But lots of applications need it to build.	03:21
gtessier00	IMO, maemo is 10x better than android	03:21
jebba	they did have a ./configure --enable-hildon at one point, but back in the 710 era AFAICT	03:22
Gadgetoid_mbp	I can't quite come to terms with Android	03:22
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jebba	android is java crap. n900 is debian.	03:22
jebba	no comparison	03:22
gtessier00	n900 has flash support, a GREAT thing	03:23
jebba	proprietary flash...	03:24
Gadgetoid_mbp	The Droid will have Flash support, but the browser is already a deal slower than the N900s	03:24
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luke-jr_	N900 is not Debian	03:24
Gadgetoid_mbp	So I can only wince at the thought of flash in it	03:24
Gadgetoid_mbp	If Maemo isn't a Debian derivative, what the hell is apt doing in it?	03:24
luke-jr_	key word: derivative	03:24
Gadgetoid_mbp	Haha, touche	03:25
jebba	i'm still really impressed at how fast the n900/maemo5 is. I have a sharp netwalker running ubuntu--roughly the same spec (but more memory in netwalker) and the netwalker is a DOG by comparison.	03:25
luke-jr_	huge difference	03:25
Gadgetoid_mbp	Everything's a sodding Debian derivative these days anyway	03:25
jebba	Gadgetoid_mbp: it is a debian derivative.	03:25
Gadgetoid_mbp	It's the grandaddy of all relevant linux	03:25
Gadgetoid_mbp	Errr, apart from CentOS	03:25
jebba	well, fedora/rh pretty relevant...	03:25
gtessier00	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=435924#post435924	03:25
Gadgetoid_mbp	Pfff, redshat	03:25
Gadgetoid_mbp	I mean hat	03:25
gtessier00	oops sorry I didn't to put this here, hehe :P	03:25
luke-jr_	jebba: not really	03:25
luke-jr_	but even still, I bet RedHat is derived from Debian somehow	03:26
Milo-	it's not.	03:26
Gadgetoid_mbp	Lies, damn lies, and statistics	03:26
Gadgetoid_mbp	Forums, being the go-to place for all complaints, create some of the most inaccurate "statistics" I've ever laid eyes upon	03:27
luke-jr_	Milo-: IIRC, Debian is the first Linux-based OS... kinda hard to not derive from it when starting one	03:27
Milo-	red hat came roughly at the same time	03:28
Gadgetoid_mbp	red hat sounds like the tip of a penis...	03:28
luke-jr_	...	03:28
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Milo-	uhm, yes..	03:28
Gadgetoid_mbp	I whipped out my red had for a bit of gentoo, and she thought it was a bit debian and said she only likes mandriva and corel.... uuhh	03:29
Gadgetoid_mbp	And a bit of yellow dog	03:29
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Milo-	My Gentoos are awesome	03:29
jebba	hah	03:29
jebba	yikes.	03:29
* jebba used to work at yellow dog		03:29
jebba	well, terrasoft	03:29
luke-jr_	actually, now that you mention it...	03:29
Gadgetoid_mbp	Turquoise Dog	03:29
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luke-jr_	RedHat is the only Linux-based desktop OS I've used that is missing the tempfile command	03:30
jebba	9 years ago now. yowza	03:30
luke-jr_	which turns out to be part of debianutils pkg	03:30
luke-jr_	<.<	03:30
Milo-	Gentoo is the only distro that makes sense.	03:30
Gadgetoid_mbp	Sheesh, 9 years ago I thought work was something people made up to scare me	03:30
luke-jr_	...	03:31
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* luke-jr_ would get so much flak if he logged on as luke-jr_mbp...		03:31
Gadgetoid_mbp	And on that note, I should probably sleep because I've got work tomorrow and am still physically hungover from Friday night	03:31
luke-jr_	Stskeeps: wouldn't I? :P	03:31
Gadgetoid_mbp	In future, I'll binge drink instead of dancing... the side effects last for significantly less time	03:32
T7g	Well, we'll see if inserting this /sbin/fsck -y /dev/mmcblk0p1 before mounting /home in rcS-late keeps my n900 from booting ;P I really couldn't think of any other easier way	03:32
Gadgetoid_mbp	You cannot physically strain yourself by lying unconscious on the floor	03:32
jebba	T7g: give it a -v too	03:32
Milo-	I should install gentoo on N900	03:32
Milo-	but I don't think it could handle all the compiling :(	03:32
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jebba	wow. DONT give it a -v	03:32
jebba	sry	03:32
T7g	a lil late fer that now but I'm sure that won't stop it from booting if it's gonna.	03:33
jebba	was thinking that was verbose T7g ...	03:33
pupnik	cat /proc/asound/card0/pcm0p/sub0/status yields about 12 seconds of workin, then state: XRUN happens and sound gets sdistorted	03:33
jebba	that would just give version heh	03:33
T7g	hm, does -y say yes in your output?	03:33
T7g	I was consulting my gentoo's manpage	03:33
jebba	-V is verbose -v is version (at least in teh "real" one)	03:33
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jebba	all bets are off on the busybox fsck, check it carefully	03:34
Milo-	that kind of breaks the GNU standards :P	03:34
luke-jr_	Milo-: my N810 runs Gentoo	03:34
luke-jr_	or did anyhow	03:34
Milo-	heh	03:34
jebba	oh wait, it may be a real one	03:34
Milo-	luke-jr_ how did that work out?	03:34
jebba	ya, it's from e2fsprogs	03:34
luke-jr_	Milo-: the only problems are Nokia's fault <.<	03:34
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Milo-	really?	03:34
Milo-	:o	03:34
luke-jr_	Milo-: N810 is too closed	03:34
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luke-jr_	N900 in theory should be slightly better	03:35
Milo-	though, you would still be using binary packages	03:35
luke-jr_	...	03:35
Milo-	not sources	03:35
luke-jr_	no, Gentoo is from source :p	03:35
Milo-	even the maemo packages?	03:35
luke-jr_	Nokia gifted slonopotamus a N900, but he doesn't have time to do this stuff anymore I think	03:35
luke-jr_	Milo-: I don't run Maemo.	03:36
luke-jr_	Gentoo is Gentoo, not Maemo	03:36
luke-jr_	I ran console mode and, on occasion, KDE 4.3	03:36
Milo-	were you able to make calls with it?	03:36
luke-jr_	um	03:37
luke-jr_	no	03:37
Milo-	:D	03:37
luke-jr_	I didn't bother	03:37
luke-jr_	I can just pick up my hard phone while at home	03:37
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luke-jr_	and there's not enough Wifi here to make it worth the effort to setup a softphone	03:37
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luke-jr_	Milo-: don't forget Nxx0 are not phones, they're handhelds.	03:38
luke-jr_	N900 is the first model to even support cellular frequencies	03:38
luke-jr_	N810 is strictly 802.11bg	03:38
Milo-	oh, did not know that	03:38
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pupnik	ah, our libsdl src/audio/alsa/SDL_alsa_audio.c is simply not recovering from XRUN state	03:42
pupnik	and when i run alsamixer, that gets fixed for a while	03:43
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jebba	[2009-12-21 03:39:16] ffmpeg 4:0.5+svn20090706-5 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository :)	03:45
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pupnik	nice jebba	03:49
T7g	hm, it's still sitting here displayin' nothin' and I would imagine that the fsck would be done by now.	03:53
jebba	T7g: you need a kernel with a console...	03:54
T7g	that's pretty crappy that it wasn't included.	03:54
T7g	but I assume when it sits and doesn't show the graphical dot thing that it's still doing something on the console	03:55
T7g	unless, it's literally hanging there because I pretty much couldn't do the fsck like that	03:55
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T7g	Suppose I'll give it until the reflash images download;p	03:57
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jebba	well, if its not hung at the dots, that's actually a better sign	03:59
jebba	what size and what exactly are you fscking anyway?	03:59
T7g	Well, I switched the partition type flags on apps and mydocs	04:00
T7g	The bad thing was, my linux system was automounting apps (/home) instead of mydocs because of it being mmcblk0p1	04:00
T7g	Soo I was basically concurrently using a filesystem, I tried fscking it a couple times before I realized I was fscking a live system.	04:01
T7g	It worked fine but the used space total was very wrong and I had random corruption issues	04:01
T7g	I resolved to just not use it via usb anymore however I figured I'd fsck it now and get all my data over wifi and not worry about the corruption.	04:02
pupnik	http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/libsdl1.2/src/audio/alsa/SDL_alsa_audio.c Lines 326 - 348 - there must be some way to recover from underrun	04:02
T7g	I take it, there is no way to fsck /home (or mmcblk0p1) without doing it before it boots	04:02
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jebba	T7g: not that i know of	04:11
T7g	I feel better knowing I had no other choice :P	04:12
T7g	On the other hand, is there any way I can tweak the n900 to export a device over usb other than mmcblk0p1?	04:13
SpeedEvil	pupnik: there isn't - other than to play fake data	04:14
SpeedEvil	pupnik: underrun means you ran out of audio data when the DAC needed some.	04:14
SpeedEvil	pupnik: there is no way back.	04:14
pupnik	SpeedEvil: when i run alsamixer and exit, the sound gets fixed	04:14
pupnik	while playing	04:14
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pupnik	i guess i'll look at what alsamixer does on exit	04:16
SpeedEvil	pupnik: sorry - not reading code at this time - migrane, and can't get to sleep.	04:16
pupnik	np, it's nice to have someone to chat with	04:17
pupnik	my eyes are starting to go	04:17
cehteh	anyone working on bringin bash3 to maemo?	04:17
SpeedEvil	Does it support multitouch?	04:17
arachnist	how would bash3 support multitouch?	04:17
T7g	jebba, you said that it not freezing on the dots was better than it freezing before, is there some keycombo I can hit to get into interactive mode or something to skip this fsck I put in before mount /home in event.d/rcS-late?	04:18
jebba	T7g: the only thing i can think of is trying to put it into r&d mode	04:18
AakashPatel	what was tha app that lets me control the tv over ir?	04:18
* cehteh tries to compile bash4 .. :P		04:19
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jebba	T7g: with the flasher: ./flasher-3.5 --enable-rd-mode	04:19
T7g	Well I have the reflasher and images now.	04:19
jebba	then fix it, then disable it.	04:19
jebba	T7g: try r&d mode first i guess	04:19
T7g	What does r&d mode give me access to?	04:19
jebba	just makes the device weird and half broken. But it does skip fscks ;)	04:19
T7g	This is a manual one I put in myself :p	04:20
jebba	but again, it skips nokia's fscks, not sure about it skipping your fsck ;)	04:20
jebba	worth a shot. One freaking line. Easier than a flash.	04:20
T7g	yeah, you're right, if not I'm due for a flash. Since I don't have to debrand the phone I guess I owe it one :p	04:21
AakashPatel	aircrack lets me crap wep passwords, right?	04:21
AakashPatel	yeh	04:21
AakashPatel	sweet	04:21
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T7g	To be clear, nothing I can do to the files in /etc could make the device unflashable right? It's all the same nand and the nokia bootloader can reflash as long as I don't mess with wherever it is?	04:23
jebba	ya, you can rm -rf /etc and still reflash ok	04:23
jebba	you LOSE all / on reflash, except /home which also contains /opt	04:24
T7g	Shouldn't be an issue that I flagged that partition ext3 and it is ext3?	04:24
jebba	it'll just blow that out and overwrite it	04:25
T7g	So /home will be destroyed regardless?	04:25
jebba	the flash doesn't write it like it's a file system, it does it more like "dd", if you get what i mean	04:25
T7g	I know what ya mean	04:25
jebba	/home WON't be destroyed. Just the 256M gets destroyed	04:25
jebba	ah, but it may have a hard time mounting it if it's formatted ext3. Not sure there. hehe	04:25
T7g	I basically just want to come up with a plan to have a non-corrupted ext3 filesystem (even if I can't mount it over usb)	04:26
jebba	worst case you ahve to blow out /home too	04:26
T7g	yeah that's not an issue, made a backup of phone settings before	04:26
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jebba	T7g: you may want to try this free one for kicks too: http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/	04:27
cehteh	[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~/bash-4.0] > /usr/local/bin/bash --version	04:27
cehteh	GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i686-pc-linux-gnu)	04:27
jebba	you'll need the latest mercurial code with it though:	04:27
jebba	hg clone http://hg.youterm.com/0xFFFF	04:27
jebba	nice	04:27
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cehteh	eww does scratchbox something specual there? :)	04:27
T7g	I was having weird stuff happen like icons disappearing from the desktop and video file corruption on reboot. I'm almost sure it was because both the n900 and my gentoo box had mounted the partition at the same time, to make it worse I fsck'd it a ton	04:27
jebba	ah, i thought you had bash4 built	04:28
jebba	haha, ya, fscking live filesystems ....	04:28
T7g	I went well enough	04:28
T7g	here's the issue, it always said I had something like 16777775T used in df -h	04:29
T7g	and as I said, stuff disappeared here and there.	04:29
T7g	it let me write to it but I didn't want the uncertainty, I had a disappearing wiiload icon that was there at the start and then deleted itself when the desktop finished opening	04:29
SplasPood	hrm.. libc6-dev is mia	04:29
cehteh	jebba: well yes so i thought	04:30
cehteh	./bash --version	04:31
cehteh	GNU bash, version 4.0.0(2)-release (i486-pc-linux-gnu)	04:31
cehteh	strange things	04:31
T7g	jebba, What exactly activates nokia's fscks? 34 mounts?	04:32
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jebba	seems to fsck a lot more than that.	04:32
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jebba	ffmpeg is now in the extras-devel repo :)	04:36
T7g	how do ya know it's fscking jeb?	04:38
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T7g	I would've left rcS-late alone if I thought it was gonna fsck sooner!	04:39
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T7g	Is the whole partition flag switching and remaking the fs's a worse idea than say running an ext in a loopback? eghh. I just don't like vfat and all the systems I use around here are all linux (they can mount vfat but..) so it's not as if I needed vfat	04:40
jebba	dont really know how you know witout a console enabled kernel	04:40
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jebba	ya, exact same here. I dont need vfat at all	04:41
cehteh	what i saied .. reformat, disable the storage thing, run networking, sshfs or samba when you need to transfer files	04:41
T7g	What is your solution? Did you just resist the temptation and leave it as vfat?	04:42
T7g	yeah	04:42
T7g	I agree sir, I think that's where I am headed after the reflash-- there is an option to disable usb mass storage mode?	04:42
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cehteh	would be cool if nokia would support/develop/sponsor some kind of virtual fat driver	04:42
cehteh	looks like a vfat storage device but is just a file-server	04:43
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cehteh	... PASSED 125 TESTS, 0 SKIPPED	04:43
T7g	indeed, but it would be so much easier if we had some config file where we could simply specify what partition was exported over USB when it was connected in mass storage mode.	04:43
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cehteh	yay .. that was fremantle x86	04:44
cehteh	now lets try with armel	04:44
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T7g	ehh... I almost wonder if I could hexedit the flasher image to change the partition table to better resemble a normal linux system and flash that, like keep the partition designations but change the cylinder starts and finishes since the image obviously won't flash to the entire device at once..	04:46
cehteh	in theory yes, but it certainly has some checksum to be corrected too	04:47
T7g	ahh yeah, durr	04:47
cehteh	and if something goes wrong you may brick your device	04:47
T7g	What do you have to do to make an n900 unflashable?	04:47
T7g	Where is the flasher bootloader stored? on nand? in rom?	04:48
cehteh	dunno if it reflashes the firmware needed on the device side to handle flashing	04:48
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cehteh	iirc the device has no rom, only flash/nand	04:48
T7g	eghh, that's not so great	04:48
cehteh	call it flexible and cheap :P	04:48
cehteh	but i am not sure about that	04:48
T7g	neither am I	04:49
T7g	Would be nice imho if we had a how to brick an n900 permanently so we know what steps not to do.	04:49
T7g	I mean obviously, don't disconnect the usb cable or power off while reflashing but	04:49
T7g	Other things that could cause you to be screwed without a crazy solder job	04:50
cehteh	grr .. bash4 doesnt compile on arm	04:50
jebba	T7g: you can extract the flasher image using the flasher-3.5 program	04:50
cehteh	or maybe sdk bug ..	04:50
jebba	what's the error?	04:51
T7g	Well, I can roll with the more hackish ways to do it	04:51
T7g	I really don't need to use the USB function	04:51
jebba	T7g: then check out 0xFFFF :)	04:51
T7g	emerging hg atm ;p	04:52
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jebba	T7g: did you get latest hg of it?	04:52
T7g	haven't even tried since I didn't have hg, but if you're asking about my hg version I run ~amd64 so I assume it's the best without going into ~x86	04:53
jebba	cuz the latest tarball of it 100% for sure doesn't have n900 code, but the latest hg 100% does.	04:53
jebba	you'll definitely need hg of 0xFFFF, not tarball.	04:53
T7g	Oh yeah, just cloned it	04:54
jebba	ah ok	04:54
jebba	cool, git is now in the repo too :)	04:54
T7g	I'm not a linux newbie, but I'm not an expert, I'm not a coder, but I can code- just not well. I kinda just do good on doing general things. Last project I did was bringing Gentoo to the Wii	04:55
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jebba	sounds like me	04:56
cehteh	configure bash4 with --disable-readline .. what a shame :P	04:56
jebba	i just poke at it and beat the code until it worksforme	04:56
jebba	cehteh: there is readline4-dev btw	04:57
jebba	if it wanted readline5 you may just be able to downgrade it	04:57
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kaudio	hello	04:57
cehteh	i only need a more recent bash for a test script	04:57
cehteh	and i got linker errors so prolly not a dev package problem	04:57
T7g	okay, well, this n900 looks like this fsck won't get done anytime soon since it's been an hour and a half, and I did a whole badblock test in 35 minutes. I'll try the r&d mode	04:58
cehteh	worked on x86 but not on armel	04:58
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cehteh	fsck over vfat?	04:58
T7g	nope, ext3, I did the vfat/ext partition switch thing with sfdisk	04:59
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T7g	so I inserted... /sbin/fsck -y /dev/mmcblk0p1 right before /bin/mount /home in /etc/event.d/rcS-late	04:59
T7g	so it's fscking a 27gb or so fs, but I did a badblock test through usb in 35 mins before I had my durr moment and realized the cause of the problem.	05:00
cehteh	The following extra packages will be installed:	05:00
cehteh	libreadline5 readline-common	05:00
cehteh	The following packages will be REMOVED:	05:00
cehteh	libreadline4-dev maemo-core-dev maemo-sdk-dev	05:00
cehteh	great :P	05:00
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jebba	cehteh: ya, that's why i said do readline4	05:03
jebba	edit debian/control and try downgrading it.	05:03
T7g	Oh, I have the dots...	05:03
cehteh	i doubt bash4 will like old stinking readline	05:03
T7g	hmm...	05:03
T7g	booted	05:04
T7g	but that begs the question, how the hell do I trigger a real fsck?	05:04
jebba	do it correctly in your script :P	05:04
jebba	T7g: so the r&d mode did it?	05:04
T7g	no, it just err, booted	05:05
ml-maemo	anyone have vim working good on the N900?	05:05
T7g	sat blank screen for hour and a half, held down power, powered down, turned on again, sat tehre	05:05
jebba	ah, you mean it finally finished the fsck or did you put it in r&d mode?	05:05
T7g	then eventually the dots came up	05:05
jebba	ah cool	05:05
T7g	No, I turned the damn thing off	05:05
jebba	T7g: check out http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Installing_my_custom_kernel	05:05
jebba	that is a kernel with a console so at least you can see WTF is goign on	05:05
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cehteh	me is still at step 1 ... install my custom shell :P	05:06
T7g	jebba, that sounds awesome	05:06
T7g	In fact, you just answered a question I wanted asked without asking :p	05:06
jebba	i'm getting better	05:07
jebba	it's the fone/computer/camera	05:07
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T7g	yeah man, n900 will change all our lives :P	05:07
T7g	So, n900 keeps kernels in /lib?	05:08
jebba	no, keeps modules there	05:08
jebba	back up your old modules for sure.	05:08
jebba	it keeps kernel in /boot, but not really	05:08
jebba	the real kernel it loads it gets from somewhere else methinks	05:08
T7g	It did fsck	05:08
jebba	and gets flashed in there	05:08
jebba	cool	05:09
T7g	Perhaps i stopped it permaturely?	05:09
T7g	but on my gentoo box I did a full badblock scan in 35mins tops...	05:09
T7g	I waited like 1.5 hours at least, unless it was on a third fsck pass...	05:09
luke-jr_	......	05:10
GAN900	As a side note: Avatar was excellent.	05:10
luke-jr_	T7g: you didn't try to badblocks your SSD?	05:10
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T7g	not read/write (-cc)	05:10
luke-jr_	read-only at most I hope	05:11
T7g	I thought about that one, and I know that would've hosed the nand	05:11
luke-jr_	XD	05:11
T7g	thank god I'm not as stupid as I could've been ;)	05:11
luke-jr_	too bad Nokia is	05:11
luke-jr_	<.<	05:11
luke-jr_	swap is probably just about as bad	05:12
T7g	A standard n900 block is 32kb? and the nand writes in 512k blocks? or less?	05:12
luke-jr_	yet it's enabled by default on N900	05:12
luke-jr_	what is a N900 block? :p	05:12
T7g	I mean, you know the filesystem has x size blocks	05:12
luke-jr_	badblocks uses no filesystem	05:12
luke-jr_	neither does swap	05:12
T7g	I've been drinking, be forewarned	05:13
luke-jr_	.........	05:13
T7g	if you scroll up it'll make slightly more sense if you see what I've been talkin' about	05:13
T7g	I didn't realize I was dual mounting the ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1 over usb	05:13
T7g	thought I had badblocks until I realized the filesystem was just being crazy because it was still mounted when mounted over usb	05:14
jebba	heh	05:15
T7g	That isn't half as bad as when I ported one of my perl scripts to windows and didn't realize I was prefixing the exec calls with ./ still for an hour or so	05:15
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T7g	and contrary to what they say, you can get away with live fscking your n900	05:16
T7g	your data will just randomly disappear on reboots.	05:16
luke-jr_	.........	05:16
luke-jr_	that's not get away with	05:16
T7g	hahaha, yeah, perhaps not =)	05:16
ml-maemo	vim does not like my keyboard	05:16
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GiantTalkingCow	Vim doesn't like anything. Use Emacs.	05:17
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ShadowJK	badblocks on an SSD would be funny	05:18
ShadowJK	rather, it IS funny	05:18
ShadowJK	in that it doesn't work at all	05:18
ShadowJK	SSDs, mmc/sd, etc have that load spreading stuff. Your bad block will constantly move around :)	05:19
ShadowJK	I have a transcend 1GB SD card that does that :)	05:19
ShadowJK	the range of blocks this bad block moves to is limited, but it's quite big	05:20
T7g	I guess I should've came here before I started screwing with my n900 but I haven't had to reflash yet so I'm doing alright so far.	05:21
cehteh	heh .. actually they do checksumming and error correction so they find the bad blocks and replace them	05:21
T7g	On the n900 cehteh ? Or SSD's in general?	05:21
cehteh	even cheap ones have to do that they rely even more on error correction	05:21
cehteh	in general	05:21
ShadowJK	cehteh, they should find bad blocks and replace them	05:22
ShadowJK	btw, the bad block goes away if I access the card slowly	05:22
cehteh	the nand prolly not, ubi/ubifs is completely managed by the linux mtd layer including error correction, wear leveling and so on iirc	05:22
ShadowJK	it's not a transport error, I think, because then the bad bits would be spread out over the entire card, or could appear over the entire card	05:23
ShadowJK	yeah the onenand is different	05:23
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ShadowJK	SSDs and SD/mmc run their own ftl to make them look like harddrives/etc	05:24
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Lantizia	Lo, I was on earlier and a guy suggested I hard link /usr to /usr-del so that I can symlink /home/usr to /usr.... reboot... then delete /usr-del	05:37
Lantizia	i.e. move usr to eemmc but kinda-sudo-safely	05:37
Lantizia	but hard linking usr to usr-del don't work... I just get "Operation not permitted" any tips on why?	05:37
Lantizia	and yeah I'm root	05:37
derf	You can't hard link directories.	05:38
derf	Use cp -al	05:39
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Lantizia	i know what a is.. whats l?	05:39
derf	It makes hard links instead of copying the files.	05:39
Lantizia	for every file/dir it finds?	05:39
T7g	yeah	05:39
derf	For every file.	05:39
derf	You can't hard link directories.	05:39
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Lantizia	so the _real_ /usr would be left behind... just a bunch of empty directories?	05:40
T7g	with symlinks	05:40
derf	I don't know what you're trying to do, but you'll likely screw up your device.	05:40
Lantizia	nah don't want symlinks	05:40
Lantizia	if I have symlinks I can't delete the real /usr	05:40
derf	I don't think /home is mounted early enough to replace /usr.	05:41
T7g	derf, I think he's trying to avoid bricking by filling up the 256mb chip	05:41
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Lantizia	T7g, yup	05:41
derf	Yes. I'm saying what he's trying won't work.	05:41
T7g	home is not mounted until after /etc/event.d/rcS-late	05:41
Lantizia	I've reflashed already - so I can try as many times as needed to get it right lol	05:41
T7g	Well it's mounted in that file	05:41
T7g	sorry	05:41
Lantizia	so?	05:41
T7g	so /user is already there when you mount /home, which means you can't replace /usr with it	05:42
T7g	without losing everything on /usr at least	05:42
T7g	you can mount over it but then you can't access the original /usr	05:42
T7g	forgive the typo after his so and my so /user (should be /usr)	05:43
Lantizia	no no... I'm hard linking usr to usr-del so that I can symlink /home/usr to /usr so I can delete the real usr (now usr-del) after	05:43
Lantizia	basically doing what is already done to /opt	05:43
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T7g	but if you did that, then /usr would be hard linked to somewhere that does not exist	05:44
T7g	because /home/usr isn't there when /usr needs to be there	05:44
Lantizia	no it wouldn't it would be symlinked not hard linked	05:44
T7g	no, no, you don't understand, /home won't be mounted when you need your /usr	05:44
Lantizia	and when is that? what needs it?	05:44
T7g	well, that is a question better answered by the rest of the folks in the channel, but at least something I would imagine	05:45
Lantizia	bah I want to try anyway	05:45
type_t	whats the problem?	05:45
T7g	that's cool, I'm curious for one	05:45
Lantizia	I'm told var is a bad idea... but usr should be ok	05:45
Lantizia	this was earlier today	05:45
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T7g	type_t, he wants to symlink /usr to /home/usr and reboot I think, not realizing that /home/usr isn't mounted until long after /usr is needed ?	05:46
T7g	or maybe not, basically he's trying to solve the optification problem in one fell swoop	05:46
Lantizia	but to do that (and delete the real /usr) I need to hard link /usr to something else so I can delete it after I've made the symlink	05:46
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Lantizia	but hard links won't work for some reason	05:47
T7g	right? to just have your /usr on /home so it never fills installing from apt?	05:47
Lantizia	exactly	05:47
T7g	well you can't hardlink directories as the gentleman above said.	05:47
SpeedEvil	hard links are only allowable on one device	05:47
Lantizia	yeah well it's the same device	05:47
Lantizia	ln /usr /usr-del	05:47
Lantizia	cp -a /usr /home/usr	05:47
Lantizia	ln -s /home/usr /usr	05:48
T7g	yes but you have to understand how things are mounted on startup	05:48
Lantizia	REBOOT	05:48
T7g	that could work until you have to reboot	05:48
Lantizia	rm -Rf /usr-del	05:48
Lantizia	but if I can't hard link a dir... then I've no way of getting rid of the ORIGINAL /usr	05:48
T7g	can you go look at /etc/event.d/rcS-late?	05:48
T7g	See that is all on the / partition, and so is /usr, it is on the / partition as well	05:48
Lantizia	thats fine then	05:48
T7g	and / is mounted first	05:49
T7g	and it mounts /home, and then /MyDocs	05:49
Lantizia	sure	05:49
Lantizia	look if it fails then thats fine... I'll reflash and only do certain directories like the maemo wiki says	05:49
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Lantizia	but if I can move all of /usr then thats easier	05:49
T7g	guys? is there any reason he can't get rid of /usr before booting and mounting /home?	05:49
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T7g	I could be wrong granted but the way I understand it, it shouldn't be possible	05:50
T7g	just because /usr isn't mounted by itself, it's part of the mount of /	05:50
Lantizia	so copy usr to home... symlink it... then some how access the / filesystem to delete the original /usr ?	05:50
pupnik	device here has all the apps i care to install and 23MB free on /	05:50
Lantizia	pupnik, I easily reached the limit easier	05:50
Lantizia	*earlier	05:50
Lantizia	T7g, well /opt isn't mounted by itself... it's just a symlink to /home/opt	05:51
T7g	your best bet is to do this maybe... I am drunk so don't take me too seriously lant, but maybe keep a minimal /usr in your setup and then after mounting home, mount -o bind /home/usr /usr	05:51
Lantizia	nah! no bind mounts!	05:51
Lantizia	they get done much much much later I think	05:51
T7g	no, you do this manually in /etc/event.d/rcS-late	05:52
Lantizia	yeah but I'm still left with a problem on how to delete the original /usr	05:52
T7g	you don't, you slim it down before you switch and leave it alone.	05:52
Lantizia	want to destroy it instead	05:52
Lantizia	KABAM!	05:52
T7g	it's needed to boot before you rebind your /usr from a different directory	05:52
T7g	or to ehh	05:53
Lantizia	"it's needed to boot" by what?	05:53
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Lantizia	for what!	05:53
Lantizia	these things I will learn when I brick it for the 3rd time in a week :D	05:53
Lantizia	KABAM!	05:53
Lantizia	can I use a delete tool that ignores symlinks? i.e. it looks on the raw file system for a /usr and deletes it - ignoring the symlink already at /usr	05:54
T7g	I think if there was an easy solution to all of this that someone other than one of us would've came up with it :p	05:54
T7g	I just repartitioned lant, you can't use it over USB properly but otherwise you're fine.	05:54
Lantizia	why repartitioned? what advantage is that?	05:55
Lantizia	you put the whole filesystem on the eemc?	05:55
T7g	okay	05:55
T7g	your problem:	05:55
pupnik	heh, find /usr -size +1500 reveals some things	05:55
Lantizia	KABAM!	05:56
T7g	can't install apps	05:56
T7g	need more than 2gb?	05:56
Lantizia	sure!	05:56
Lantizia	32 would be nice	05:56
T7g	have you switched your 2gb ext3 partition and your 27gb vfat partition yet?	05:56
Lantizia	don't need this thing as usb storage	05:56
Lantizia	eh!?	05:56
T7g	okay good, there is a forum thread that teaches you an advanced way to switch your partition type flags on your table	05:56
T7g	the n900 seems to autogen fstabs	05:56
Lantizia	so theres 2gb of NAND flash?	05:57
T7g	There is 32gb	05:57
Lantizia	your suggesting stick swap on the 32gb?	05:57
T7g	it's split weird	05:57
T7g	No	05:57
T7g	I'm sugges	05:57
* Lantizia is confused.com		05:57
T7g	Okay, your N900 is basically a single flash device (other than tha main rootfs? I am no expert so please correct)	05:57
T7g	that is partitioned	05:58
Lantizia	from what I hear it is not	05:58
Lantizia	2 seperate storage devices	05:58
T7g	there is some little 256mb chip maybe for the rootfs	05:58
Lantizia	ok	05:58
Lantizia	well that chip can sod off... way too small	05:58
T7g	so, I mean, you have that 256mb	05:58
T7g	now you can install with apt-get and it will by default for packages that are not "optified" install to that 256mb chip, bad of course	05:59
Lantizia	yes like perl which I attempted to install	05:59
Lantizia	so frozen bubble would work lol	05:59
T7g	otherwise optified packages will appear in /home/opty	05:59
T7g	-y, anyways	05:59
pupnik	flobopuyo, enigma, xchat leave some things that seem optifiable	05:59
* Lantizia feels opty		05:59
pupnik	hatari also	06:00
T7g	you basically need to tell perl not to install to /usr, but to /home/opt instead	06:00
Lantizia	would rather move usr to home	06:00
T7g	if you install anything substantial to the 256mb chip, you'll fill it	06:00
T7g	I know! we all would I bet, it's a great idea I admit	06:00
T7g	i just don't know how doable it is	06:00
Lantizia	well I wanna try that first!	06:00
T7g	I don't know if the n900 needs anything from /usr before mounting /home	06:00
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Lantizia	hell one sec I'm gonna try it	06:00
Lantizia	I'm gonna try it without removing the original /usr	06:01
T7g	First unless you wanna brick a lot and reflash is you need to install jebba's kernel with console so you can tell us the error messages	06:01
Lantizia	it'll be small at the moment anyway as I just reflashed	06:01
Lantizia	that sounds like work	06:01
T7g	you just bought the n900, your idea of a great sunday night isn't installing Debian?	06:01
Lantizia	Nokia-N900-42-11:/home# cp -a /usr .	06:01
Lantizia	well got it a week ago	06:02
Lantizia	see I loved the Zaurus machines... openzaurus on there - boot from SD card... lovely	06:02
T7g	sd cards are slow	06:02
Lantizia	but spacious	06:02
Lantizia	256mb is frankly pathetic	06:02
T7g	Ah, well, that is bascially	06:03
pupnik	you fail to grasp the nature of Thai Quan Leep	06:03
T7g	256mb for the people that are incapable of working with linux :p	06:03
pupnik	approach so that you may learn	06:03
T7g	you can work around it	06:03
Lantizia	yes like moving usr to home :D	06:03
T7g	think of it like a fun puzzle	06:03
pupnik	think of it as a waste of timem	06:03
Lantizia	yay!	06:04
Lantizia	KABAM!	06:04
T7g	to be honest lant, I think after a few more people actually get their phones they ordered and the holidays pass we'll see a lot more movement in that stuff	06:04
Lantizia	what stuff??	06:04
Lantizia	people moaning about the space?	06:04
T7g	people doing something about it.	06:04
Lantizia	ok usr copied... making symlink	06:05
Lantizia	damn it! won't do it while it exists	06:05
Lantizia	hmm I could move it then symlink	06:05
* Lantizia makes a crappy shell script to do it quickly		06:06
* jebba hearts quilt		06:06
T7g	it's good we have people that are willing to try it like you are though lant, waste of time or not, who knows, it is inspiring.	06:06
Lantizia	YAY it worked!	06:06
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Lantizia	I renamed /usr to /moo	06:06
jebba	heh	06:06
Lantizia	and made a symlink to /home/usr	06:06
* Lantizia deletes /moo		06:06
Lantizia	if this works when I reboot I'll be really happy	06:07
T7g	Okay well I can tell you one thing for sure	06:07
T7g	If it does not work	06:07
* Lantizia reboots		06:07
T7g	then it means you can not symlink to /home	06:07
T7g	before the n900 needs something from /usr	06:07
Lantizia	well lets see :D	06:07
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Lantizia	lol it's on a reboot loop	06:08
Lantizia	come on little N900!	06:08
T7g	the little n900 needs /usr there until after /home is mounted	06:08
Lantizia	fuck buckets... time for another reflash	06:08
T7g	so wait and then mount -o bind an image of /usr	06:08
T7g	on a writable bigger parition afterwards	06:09
jebba	let it do it's reboot loops (?)	06:09
Lantizia	nah it's rebooted like 6 times now hehe	06:09
T7g	you have to duplicate it but it's your only choice.	06:09
Lantizia	T7g, well I can still delete the original /usr ... your saying add a mount bind in a script?	06:09
T7g	Here is what I think a solution could be for yo u	06:10
T7g	You leave your /usr as is.	06:10
pupnik	that clock_worldmap_time_chooser.jpg could be reduced from 1MB to something a bit smaller	06:10
T7g	you copy it to /home/usr 0a	06:10
SpeedEvil	e	06:10
T7g	err -a, then you mount -o bind however you do that command after mounting /home in /etc/event.d/rcS-late	06:11
SpeedEvil	either work out what files are used before /home is mounted - and leave those - or mount home earlier	06:11
Lantizia	T7g, but if I mount bind when it's needed in rcS-late... then it should be fine without the original /usr	06:11
SpeedEvil	which may slow boot down a little	06:11
Lantizia	or even boot up	06:11
T7g	No, you don't understand Lant, I think you're trying to reference /home/usr before it's mounted	06:11
T7g	the symlink will always reference /home/usr, even if it's not mounted	06:12
jebba	ah, it's probably doing a fsck.vfat and failing (hence reboot) when it should fsck.ext3 ??? I havent really been paying attention to wha tyou¿'ve been doing tho	06:12
T7g	it'll just fail if it's not there	06:12
Lantizia	yes I know that	06:12
Lantizia	I know!	06:12
Lantizia	was just hoping it didn't need it on boot up	06:12
T7g	jebba, I fixed my thinger	06:12
Lantizia	or at least before home gets mounted	06:12
T7g	We're trying to help Lant fix the optification problem somehow	06:12
jebba	T7g: how?	06:12
T7g	he wants symlinks, I want mount -o binds	06:12
Lantizia	well bind mounts are next :D	06:12
Lantizia	gotta reflash first (again lol)	06:13
T7g	jebba, I just let it reboot, I guess fsck ignored it once it was done right, perhaps it got stuck wanting to reboot and the N900 doesn't like doing that proper?	06:13
T7g	I noticed shutdown -r does crap	06:13
T7g	perhaps fsck wanted to -r the system after fixing it and then couldn't, and after manual powerdown started up and didn't check the clean filesystem (thank god I omitted -f)	06:14
jebba	ah cool. sudo reboot works. But T7g bit warning: don't reboot your device 17 times without a power off with powercable (usb) disconnected or it bricks!	06:14
Lantizia	T7g, I will be back! gotta go into linux to reflash... this 64bit windows box doesn't like the flasher	06:14
T7g	I read that sir, as a precaution I never type reboot, I hit the power button and choose "Switch Off"	06:14
pupnik	there, 45MB free on / and all apps still happy	06:15
T7g	Alright lant, I might be passed out drunk before you get back but I have 24oz to go so you should have some time.,	06:15
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T7g	I run a really goofy gentoo linux system with a read only root partition	06:15
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pupnik	hehe T7g	06:15
jebba	hahah	06:15
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T7g	I just have /etc stored as /eti, let it boot from /etc and then do a tmpfs and copy /eti to it	06:15
pupnik	some fuse stuff so you can monitor changes?	06:16
T7g	No, god I'm so lazy	06:16
T7g	works great though, booting off a ssd on my main box so I love that it's mounted read-only	06:16
pupnik	what do you do that for/	06:16
pupnik	ohhh	06:16
T7g	trying to squeeze life out of it	06:17
T7g	it's an ocz vertex 32gb	06:17
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T7g	all variable files are mounted over it from my 1tb wd	06:17
T7g	so I kinda have some experience with booting and crazy configs that aren't writable	06:18
T7g	I haven't updated /etc in forever, ehh, I wonder when that's gonna cause problems..	06:18
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lantizia	MEOW!	06:18
* lantizia is back, and reflashed		06:18
T7g	that was quick	06:18
T7g	256mb only though?	06:18
lantizia	yeeeeah :D	06:18
lantizia	yeah the normal file off the nokia/maemo site	06:18
lantizia	gotta put ssh back on here tho now	06:19
T7g	be a man, type with the n900's keyboard	06:19
lantizia	I'm not that much of a man	06:19
*** AakashPatel is now known as BitchSlappin		06:19
T7g	let it frustrate the living shit out of you!	06:19
nezb	what did you just flash with?	06:19
lantizia	sudo flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11.203.2_PR_COMBINED_203_ARM.bin -f -R	06:19
nezb	is that a new firmware?	06:20
lantizia	new?!	06:20
lantizia	o_O	06:20
nezb	oh wait nvm, that's the same one	06:20
lantizia	theres newer!	06:20
lantizia	GIMME!	06:20
nezb	got all excited for a second. there isn't ... yet	06:20
lantizia	ah ok lol	06:20
*** BitchSlappin is now known as AakashPatel		06:21
nezb	1.92009.42-11.002	06:21
lantizia	isn't that older?	06:22
T7g	just a diff way of saying it I think	06:22
lantizia	T7g: ok ready to rollllllll!	06:22
lantizia	whats the new plan? :D	06:23
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T7g	The best I can give you as a suggestion is...	06:23
T7g	Okay	06:23
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T7g	bootup, main desktop, open yer term, sudogainroot all that	06:23
T7g	cp -a /usr /home	06:23
T7g	so it's /home/usr	06:24
T7g	leave /usr alone	06:24
lantizia	ok copying...	06:24
T7g	then using your editor of choice edit /etc/event.d/rcS-late	06:24
lantizia	well I don't have an editor of choice... my choice would be nano -- but nokia are nano haters	06:24
T7g	look for "# We can safely continue booting now."	06:24
T7g	you can apt-get install nano	06:25
lantizia	NANO HATERS!	06:25
jebba	leafpad :)	06:25
lantizia	I don't see it... maybe I missed it	06:25
lantizia	I did look for it in apt	06:25
T7g	just don't ctl-w and try to search, it'll segfault	06:25
lantizia	lol	06:25
T7g	do this from console	06:25
lantizia	im in ssh	06:25
T7g	anyways, once your /usr is copied to /home/usr	06:25
lantizia	done	06:25
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* lantizia welcome everyone to "Baking with your N900"		06:26
T7g	then you edit /etc/event.d/rcS-late, and before "# We can safely continue booting now."	06:26
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T7g	before that line add something like "mount -o bind /home/usr /usr"	06:26
T7g	that should make /home/usr your new /usr	06:26
lantizia	and what if rcS-late is updated later?	06:26
T7g	be vigilant? :p	06:26
lantizia	lol	06:27
T7g	wat if your n900's lithium battery catches fire and you die? :p	06:27
T7g	I dunno, be prepared :p	06:27
lantizia	i'll have nightmares now	06:27
T7g	Now I am not sure this'll work but	06:27
nezb	my N900 better not be catching fire	06:27
T7g	best guess I have	06:27
lantizia	but why not!	06:27
T7g	seems like in theory it should work	06:27
lantizia	peh the n900 was free	06:27
lantizia	if it does work can delete the real /usr ? :D	06:27
lantizia	PWEEEASE	06:27
T7g	you'll have to have your normal /usr on the / partition, but after booting you'll bind the same files with your own additions from /home	06:28
T7g	NO	06:28
lantizia	AWWW	06:28
T7g	you cannot delete the real /usr, this should FIX it	06:28
lantizia	your meanie	06:28
lantizia	I'm only teasing :)	06:28
T7g	instead of installing to the 256mb partition's /usr, you'll install to your /home/usr, keeping your real /usr safe and sound	06:28
lantizia	thanks for your input in all this by the way	06:28
T7g	that's fine :p I'm only drinking!	06:28
T7g	Oh nah, my pleasure	06:28
T7g	If it works (probably won't) perhaps that could fix some huge issue	06:29
T7g	who knows	06:29
lantizia	to me... usr is used for the same things you expect opt to be used for.... but opt has less structure	06:29
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lantizia	so both -ought- be usable from home	06:30
T7g	yeah I'm a gentoo guy so really fuck /opt	06:30
lantizia	yeah	06:30
T7g	and yeah, you could just be saving me reflashes, if it works for you I don't mind duplicating a hundred or even two hundred megabytes of /usr on /home as long as I don't have to micromanage the filesystem	06:30
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lantizia	ok DONE!	06:31
lantizia	REEEEEBOOOOOOT	06:31
T7g	wwait	06:31
T7g	did you do that rcS-late thing	06:31
lantizia	wha	06:31
T7g	?	06:31
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lantizia	yeah I did that thing	06:31
lantizia	and I ran the command for fun too	06:31
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T7g	so right before you did the mount -o bind?	06:31
T7g	and when you ran the command it worked too?	06:31
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lantizia	sure!	06:31
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T7g	okay, then give it a try sir, if you've done wat I said!	06:31
lantizia	i have sir	06:32
nezb	the slider on my N900 is a little difficult to slide up and down, is there a way to grease it?	06:32
T7g	The way I see it, it's gonna boot off it's normal /usr and then after mounting /home it'll bind your /home/usr over your normal /usr	06:32
lantizia	woooooooooooooo	06:33
lantizia	lovely nokia tune there	06:33
lantizia	hands all over the place	06:33
T7g	At least I didn't brick your shit :p	06:33
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T7g	we'll need to see mount's output at least to know if it's working	06:33
lantizia	T7g: and looking at mount that command worked on boot	06:33
lantizia	tadaaa	06:34
T7g	I just learned about mount -o bind the other day	06:34
lantizia	i've been using them for years on my servers	06:34
T7g	like fer serious, from the manpage	06:34
lantizia	handy for ftp daemons that don't like symlinks	06:34
nezb	what, manpages actually taught us something!?	06:34
T7g	always!	06:34
lantizia	right so now I can delete /usr ?	06:34
lantizia	:D	06:34
T7g	if you do you'll delete /usr/home :p	06:34
T7g	or err	06:35
lantizia	I'm kidding! :D	06:35
T7g	otherway, /home/usr	06:35
T7g	but yeah, try filling that shit up man, see if that bind works	06:35
lantizia	I could write a script to unmount... move it... remount	06:35
lantizia	well... unmount... move it... mkdir usr... remount	06:35
T7g	really, if /usr is on /home then apt won't fuck up /	06:35
T7g	and you can literally symlink anything else off /	06:35
lantizia	im gonna try getting rid of the original :D	06:35
T7g	you will brick :P	06:36
T7g	100% :p	06:36
lantizia	lets see :D	06:36
T7g	At least I got you to reboot without brick, hahaha	06:36
lantizia	umount -f usr	06:37
lantizia	mv usr moo	06:37
lantizia	mkdir usr	06:37
lantizia	mount -o bind /home/usr /usr	06:37
lantizia	thats my script :D	06:37
lantizia	won't unmount it lol	06:37
T7g	the reason your stuff bricked before though was because /usr wasn't there	06:37
T7g	yes	06:37
lantizia	brb	06:37
T7g	see, I just almost bricked doing this ext3 conversion	06:37
T7g	Am I being stupid? Is this a workable solution to /usr filling up and not optifying packages?	06:38
pupnik	ahaaa, it's not calling amixer that fixes, but pasuspender	06:38
pupnik	pasuspender ls works too	06:38
T7g	Oh geez dude, yeah, I hear PA is BAD	06:38
T7g	but It works fine for me so far	06:38
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pupnik	no it's wonderful, just takes some cpu	06:39
gtessier00	yayyyyyy, just ordered N900 :D	06:39
nezb	gstssier: yey!	06:39
T7g	congrats sir :D from amazon? :E	06:39
gtessier00	nope, mobilecityonline :)	06:39
gtessier00	priority shipping	06:39
gtessier00	can't wait to get this	06:40
T7g	Amazon sold out of pre-orders, and newegg had a cancel I caught at the perfect time, had it shipped overnight, got here 1 day late, but so happy, friend ordered day before me and still hasn't shioppped.	06:40
nezb	it is a very sexy phone	06:40
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gtessier00	I currently have an E71 its outdated LOL	06:40
nezb	hehe anyone here want to buy a used iPhone 3G?	06:41
gtessier00	overnight is nice... but since I'm in canada Im stucked with long shipping time and duties charges lol	06:41
T7g	At times I thought I had dead pixel but I think that was just me imagining it, no DP, no mic issues, (FM radio was shit, but bluetooth works great with wiimote), and no reboots at -all-	06:41
gtessier00	mic was one of my concerns :S its a dice toss... but well, i think it was just a batch of defect N900... mobilecityonline just received a new stock, I hope that i won't have problems! but let's not think about it !! haha	06:42
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T7g	ehh I saw some thread today with people havnig complaints...	06:43
pupnik	hmm, it does not appreciate rmmod -f phonet	06:43
gtessier00	what's that? rmmod -f phonet	06:43
T7g	it does not respect /forcefsck :P	06:43
gtessier00	and whats /forcefsck haha	06:43
pupnik	playing with modules	06:43
gtessier00	ahhhhhhh	06:44
gtessier00	i wont play with them	06:44
gtessier00	well... i think	06:44
gtessier00	:S	06:44
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pupnik	seems to be phone unit. i'd like to control that radio.	06:44
T7g	gtessier00, fsck is a linux filesystem checker program, /forcefsck is a file most distros test for to decide whether or not to force a file-system check	06:44
gtessier00	oh alright	06:44
gtessier00	so u guys know how to use C++ ?	06:44
T7g	nope	06:45
T7g	(for serious)	06:45
gtessier00	and u use the terminal??	06:45
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T7g	yes that is much lesser of a strife	06:45
lantizia	BACK!	06:46
lantizia	KABAM!	06:46
lantizia	so anyway I'm going to do /var the same way now	06:47
lantizia	or is that a looony idea	06:47
nezb	^ why not just repartition?	06:47
lantizia	explain	06:47
T7g	I tried to earlier	06:47
lantizia	if I can put rootfs on eemmc then thats fine	06:47
pupnik	if they find something that can be done with just shell commands, one could make a .deb out of it	06:47
gtessier00	how long does your battery last guys ? on a normal day	06:48
T7g	read this-> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35122&page=7 (really really good)	06:48
lantizia	a day lol	06:48
pupnik	4-10 hours	06:48
T7g	or not cause you don't mind reflashing	06:48
gtessier00	not bad for the hardware thats in it	06:48
lantizia	T7g: and that explains what?	06:48
T7g	repatitioning	06:48
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gtessier00	4-10 hours :\|	06:49
T7g	there's a list of commands that is good to study	06:49
lantizia	looks a little unfinished	06:49
lantizia	lots of people arguing, etc etc... I'll wait for a wiki page	06:49
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T7g	worked for me, I now have a 2gb vfat and an XXgb ext3	06:49
pupnik	if i'm not using it much, it lasts all day	06:49
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T7g	here's the battery crap	06:50
lantizia	T7g: ok well give me what you tried (exactly) and I'll repeat	06:50
gtessier00	cant wait to get itttttttttttttttt	06:50
T7g	if you use wifi, it pulls the wifi current even when you turn it off	06:50
T7g	you have to shutdown/reboot after using wifi to turn the radio off (I hear)	06:50
gtessier00	I also ordered a proporta 3400mAh turbocharger LOL to have enough battery	06:50
gtessier00	yeah i also heard that	06:50
T7g	I do it, and I can say it probably is true	06:51
gtessier00	thats not a big concern	06:51
T7g	it's a 15x battery increase if you don't pay attention tho :P	06:51
T7g	or decrease, I should say	06:51
lantizia	is there a proper guide on this repartitioning business?	06:52
T7g	yes sir, the page I showed you :p	06:53
lantizia	thats not a guide	06:53
T7g	if you have no fear of brick then sir this guide will work	06:53
lantizia	it's a bunch of people "wondering"	06:53
T7g	I can help you, ehh	06:53
T7g	pm me or somethin' gotta paste lots	06:53
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Arkenoi	how do i force maemo application to dump core on crash? ulimit -c does not seem to work	06:59
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type_t	since we are "wondering" many things i'll guess. its probably not possible since the binaries are stripped. and so on..	07:04
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odinm	help how do i use "sudo" it does not seem to take my root password (that works over ssh)	07:10
odinm	maybe i try ssh loopback	07:10
luke-jr_	odinm: does your user have sudo perms?	07:11
luke-jr_	also, by default, sudo takes the user's password, not root's	07:11
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oldtang	hi	07:15
oldtang	anyone?	07:15
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luke-jr_	nope	07:16
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gtessier00	hello oldtang	07:16
oldtang	hi	07:16
oldtang	nice to meet you all	07:16
gtessier00	nice to meet you	07:16
oldtang	I meet a problem, I can't run maemo examples	07:17
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oldtang	gt, where are you from?	07:17
gtessier00	i'm from canada	07:17
gtessier00	and you	07:17
oldtang	china	07:17
oldtang	did you run maemo 5 examples?	07:17
gtessier00	great	07:17
gtessier00	no I'm not an expert :S you should ask someone else here, but people may be sleeping haha	07:18
odinm	oh how do i give my user perm to use sudo with any command or can i make /bin/su suid to use it?	07:18
oldtang	thanks any way	07:18
oldtang	my hellworld on maemo is just successful, I am still a binginner	07:19
oldtang	odinm, i don't know either	07:19
odinm	the exec /bin/su is busybox haha	07:20
odinm	or is there a good gui text editor?	07:21
luke-jr_	odinm: visudo, rtfm	07:21
odinm	the thing u think about the you decide to travel with N900 at least i go somewhere hot away from this snow	07:22
oldtang	vim is very good	07:25
oldtang	and very powerful	07:25
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* Arkenoi updated recorder crash bug with straces		07:25
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odinm	vim is downloading 21mb yikes hope its optified	07:27
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oldtang	where do you want to use it? windows xp or N900?	07:28
luke-jr_	odinm: there may be another smaller vim pkg?	07:28
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odinm	gainroot? can see it in sudoers; how do you exit vim w/o save?	07:32
odinm	rootfs still has 21mb left after vim install heart attack	07:33
luke-jr_	:q	07:34
luke-jr_	why did you just install vim if you don't know even the basics?	07:34
oldtang	I am using vim, it is very powerful	07:34
oldtang	haha	07:34
odinm	i normally use joe	07:35
T7g	gosh I hate vim, I like nano..	07:35
T7g	QUEUE THE EDITOR WARS!!!	07:35
odinm	have used vim b4 seem so easy from pc workstation	07:35
odinm	that it Im "apt-get install emacs"	07:36
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odinm	hmm 3.5g gone only 2g now r u all there?	07:37
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oldtang	vim can be used like IDE, do whatever you want	07:37
odinm	oh vim uses same cmds as "vi" so sorted now	07:39
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odinm	ah good not lost cellular connection while traveling	07:40
luke-jr_	I use kate, nano, and vim	07:40
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odinm	oh u can only xterm once? i want one root and one user to test	07:41
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T7g	no	07:42
T7g	go to application menu	07:42
microlith	I can't get vim to work properly	07:42
T7g	next to clock/battery odinm	07:42
oldtang	why?	07:42
microlith	doesn't register arrow keys or enter key properly	07:42
luke-jr_	fwiw, Maemo's terminal is not xterm..	07:42
T7g	then go to new	07:42
T7g	wat he said, use the one from the devel repo	07:43
T7g	or wait no	07:43
T7g	shit, just use the ez to get one	07:43
microlith	you can get multiple terminals going	07:43
odinm	hmm gainroot opens a subshell busybox but its not root	07:43
* Arkenoi tried apt-get install gcc, surprisingly enough it is not there :-(		07:43
T7g	odinm do sudo gainroot?	07:44
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odinm	thanks that works (weird it did now warn me)	07:44
odinm	s/now/not/	07:45
infobot	odinm meant: thanks that works (weird it did not warn me)	07:45
type_t	it should have said busybox is real busy and You are Not Root!..	07:45
odinm	ok thanks all maybe another odinm installment for yous all laters	07:47
type_t	odinm what are you up to still making your custom user environment?	07:48
odinm	oh yes i found "new" in xterminal app menu	07:48
type_t	still hating busybox?	07:49
odinm	ha thats good have lost cellular signal for a moment and no disconnect	07:49
odinm	yes busyboxless package will be out soon (as i get back from holidays)	07:50
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odinm	i just wanted to make sure i have root access to device (so i can fix/mess with stuff while i away)	07:51
odinm	thanks again all	07:51
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Macer	omfg	08:19
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Macer	i can connect to the pptp vpn. i can login ... i can ping the router's ip xxx.100 but i can't ping xxx.1 etc	08:20
Macer	what the hell! argh!	08:20
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redeeman	if an access point supports "WMM-APSD (Automatic Power Save Delivery)", is that good enough for the N900, it does it have to be PSM?	08:27
type_t	Macer xxx.100 is the router and who is xxx.1?	08:28
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type_t	BBNS is having a bad connection .. he keeps droping out and in...	08:31
type_t	<---Flaging BBNS as he comes in for a landing .. i hope he cathces the cable this time...	08:33
gtessier00	LOL	08:35
Macer	sorry	08:35
Macer	type_t: xxx.1 is a box on the lan	08:35
Macer	wired box on the same subnet of the vpn	08:36
Macer	maybe i should see if i can get tomato on this thing because now i can't even connect to the vpn tethered	08:36
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greenfly_	vtopic	08:53
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Corsac	mpf, no ip nor ifconfig?	09:06
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Corsac	ha, $PATH problem :)	09:30
Corsac	hmhm, what exactly is mail for exchange?	09:30
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melmoth	Corsac: something that will snchornise local data with a remote server (presumably an exchange thingy)	09:32
melmoth	mail, calendar and i guess contacts	09:32
Corsac	I wonder if it's an exchange-only proprietary stuff or a commercial name for something using standard stuff	09:33
Corsac	I mean, stuff like imap+caldav, something like that	09:33
melmoth	exchange-only proprietary stuff	09:33
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Corsac	ok	09:34
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lucent	the N900 Ovi store situation still has me apprehensive	09:38
lucent	it's almost nothing to do with Maemo though	09:39
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Corsac	hmhm, is the cert manager really managing certificates?	09:50
Corsac	I can only list them, not add one	09:51
DocScrutinizer51	Corsac: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_Server	09:51
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Stskeeps	jebba: think gitorious was messed up last night	09:52
Corsac	DocScrutinizer51: there's nothing about “mail for exchange” there	09:52
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brobostigon	good morning all.	09:54
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DocScrutinizer51	Corsac: Well on a site about exchange it's presumably called "mail"	09:54
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brobostigon	i have brought myself a n800 for christmas, on my main machine i have aiccu to give me ipv6, and it means whatever i am connected to i get ipv6, can i run something like aiccu on maemo, to do something similer?	09:55
timeless_mbp	anyone here have Tear or some other browser installed?	09:58
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: ?	09:58
Stskeeps	laying over at the desk, but i can't recall if i uninstalled it	09:58
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timeless_mbp	but you could get it back?	09:59
timeless_mbp	7174 needs testing	09:59
timeless_mbp	i need to know if the fonts available in Maemo suck (not unlikely)	09:59
timeless_mbp	or if we just didn't configure our browser for our sucky fonts	10:00
timeless_mbp	actually, i guess since xterm works, there has to be some	10:00
Corsac	DocScrutinizer51: “mail for exchange” looks like something specific, it would have been mentioned by that name	10:01
DocScrutinizer51	Corsac: the word "mail' appears 45 times on that wikipage	10:02
Corsac	ok, give up :)	10:02
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timeless_mbp	brobostigon: so.. there's very little ipv6 support in maemo1..5	10:03
brobostigon	timeless_mbp: this is maemo 4.1	10:05
brobostigon	timeless_mbp: diablo	10:05
timeless_mbp	brobostigon: which is somewhere between 1 and 5, right?	10:05
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brobostigon	timeless_mbp: so do i give up now?	10:05
timeless_mbp	you don't have ipv4 service available?	10:05
DocScrutinizer51	Corsac: "" . Exchange's major features consist of electronic mai ""	10:06
brobostigon	timeless_mbp: i do, but things like my irssi screen and that stuff, is ipv6 only.	10:06
timeless_mbp	Corsac: the certificate thing lets you remove certs you've added	10:06
timeless_mbp	the ui you use to import certificates comes from the same thing	10:07
timeless_mbp	you just trigger it from the browser or file manager	10:07
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timeless_mbp	so, re ipv6	10:10
timeless_mbp	surely you can provide an ipv4 tunnel	10:10
brobostigon	timeless_mbp: i would need an app like aiccu to do that, to router ipv6 properly over ipv4.	10:11
timeless_mbp	probably	10:11
brobostigon	to route*	10:11
timeless_mbp	note that ssh probably supports ipv6	10:12
timeless_mbp	so your probably is getting the ip address bound	10:12
timeless_mbp	are you really trying to run ipv6 irc server?	10:12
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timeless_mbp	personally, i'd just get a basic ipv4 address which can reach another computer and use ssh to cross that bridge	10:13
brobostigon	timeless_mbp: i am just trying to make the n800 ipv6 capable, so i can use some of my current stuff that are ipv6 only.	10:13
brobostigon	ok.	10:13
timeless_mbp	and then screen+irc	10:13
Stskeeps	brobostigon: http://www.ist-anemone.eu/index.php/Maemo_IPv6_howto	10:13
timeless_mbp	wow! http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-weekly-200827-200951	10:14
brobostigon	Stskeeps: that is a dead page.	10:14
Stskeeps	brobostigon: er, no	10:15
Stskeeps	works here	10:15
brobostigon	Stskeeps: doesnt here.	10:15
Stskeeps	well then you need to fix your censorship firewall	10:15
Stskeeps	:P	10:15
brobostigon	oh well, i will try google's cache	10:15
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brobostigon	i could write a script, to setup the tunnel manually.	10:19
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brobostigon	could something like http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/IPv6_startup_script work?	10:23
wnd	brobostigon, diablo can do autoconfig, so if you have a 48-prefix you could just run radvd on the server (as long as you load ipv6 module)	10:23
brobostigon	wnd: like i have on my router at home already, pretty much. but what about when i am around and about, at the router that is providing my ip on said wifi doesnt do ipv6, this is why i will need an ipv6 tunnel.	10:25
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scorpius_	anyone knows when the nokia E900 will become available???	10:31
brobostigon	ok, thank you for the advice and help all,	10:32
ifreq	you prob mean n900.. and in which ways? its been avail for weeks now.	10:32
scorpius_	no I mean the E900 "E"!	10:32
lucent	E900 looks like some photoshop hype job	10:33
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siriusnova	oh god i have way too many phones	10:33
siriusnova	:<	10:33
lucent	http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/nokia-e900/	10:33
scorpius_	I want the E900 or I keep my 5 year old one.	10:34
lucent	I mean.... no Y key?	10:34
lucent	that's so amateurish	10:34
* Arkenoi wants a slightly bigger keyboard and screen, clamshell design and aluminium case. but who cares?		10:34
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lucent	scorpius_: "E900" is a case of fanboy fail	10:35
rohanpm	where is it even claimed that the E900 exists?	10:35
edgar2	is there any evidence whatsoever that the e900 is anything more than a photoshop mockup by tabletui.wordpress.com?	10:35
Arkenoi	there isn't any	10:36
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lucent	rohanpm: link I provided has the "mockup" by some idiot who forgot to include the YHB column of a keyboard	10:36
lucent	totally laughable.	10:36
edgar2	exactly.	10:36
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scorpius_	right, but HTC is able to put a 4.5" screen; motorola is able to put a 4 line keyboard intoits droid with a thinkness of only 12mm. I won't get the N900, seeing that other manufacturers can engineer a phone	10:36
lucent	apologies to the idiot if they are here amongst us	10:36
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lucent	try better next time when you use photoshop.	10:36
thresh	it's wazd i think	10:37
lucent	scorpius_: so, you own an HTC, a motorola droid, and you're complaining about not getting an N900?	10:37
lucent	send some of that money my way this christmas, yikes	10:38
scorpius_	lucent: no I am not owning a htc or a droid	10:38
lucent	then what are you going on about?	10:38
lucent	the N900 is a sweet little mobile computer :)	10:38
lucent	I played chess on it today at work with a co-worker, and he needed to check his bank account with a full web browser	10:39
lucent	nobody else's phone could do it	10:39
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scorpius_	no, n900 the engineers were mentally absent. see the droid and the htc ofwhat can be done.	10:41
moo-_-	scorpius_: don't buy n900 if you don't like it	10:41
lucent	^^^^ exactly	10:41
moo-_-	scorpius_: but complaining here about mentally absent engineers is not very productive	10:41
scorpius_	no need to say, since that is what I am going to do, not buy the n900	10:42
lucent	moo-_-: not to mention mentally absent photoshop mock-up artists har har	10:42
scorpius_	moo: I am just comparing	10:42
lucent	missing a whole row of keys... that's making my day so much brighter.	10:42
siriusnova	the n900 really needs a firmware update or two	10:42
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siriusnova	to replace my Nokia 5800	10:42
siriusnova	:/	10:42
siriusnova	ovi maps 3.0 is amazing	10:43
siriusnova	esp for driving	10:43
thresh	n900 needs more people doing stuff	10:43
lucent	siriusnova: I'm itching to get signed up for Ovi store whenever that gets figured out	10:43
thresh	and less complaining on channels	10:43
thresh	;P	10:43
lucent	hopefully before the rebate deadline (ugh!)	10:43
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siriusnova	here google maps falls flat on its face, ovi maps 3.0 is really the only way I can drive to all these towns in the desert	10:43
siriusnova	its amazing	10:43
lucent	awwe, I want! so you have ovi maps 3.0 for your Nokia 5800, I take that to mean?	10:44
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siriusnova	yes	10:44
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siriusnova	id swap out my 5800 for my N900 if Nokia updates Ovi Maps and makes the N900 a bit more stable	10:45
siriusnova	say what you want about symbian but atm its a rock solid device	10:45
siriusnova	its my main phone / satnav / driving around Saudi Arabia in the middle of nowhere phone :P	10:45
lucent	totally bumming about the Ovi store situation for N900 :/	10:45
lucent	not even an official announcement	10:45
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lucent	siriusnova: you have stability issues with N900 and Maemo?	10:49
siriusnova	yes	10:49
siriusnova	rebooting etc..	10:49
lucent	interested in that, what kind of thing	10:49
siriusnova	the phone likes to reboot itself occasionally	10:49
siriusnova	esp using the browser	10:49
lucent	I've found that Flash causes problems	10:50
lucent	no flash, no problems yet	10:50
lucent	phone reboot I haven't seen yet!	10:50
siriusnova	also the N900's HSPDA is a tad bit unoptimized	10:50
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siriusnova	it sucks down battery life like crazy	10:50
siriusnova	:/	10:51
siriusnova	its an awesome device no doubt	10:51
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siriusnova	it puts my HTC Hero to shame	10:51
siriusnova	but its not "stable" yet	10:51
siriusnova	kind of in early adopter mode	10:51
siriusnova	:p	10:51
lucent	ha. I heard someone complain about the high price, they wanted a freerunner because it was cheaper	10:51
Stskeeps	oh de	10:51
Stskeeps	:P	10:51
Stskeeps	ar	10:51
siriusnova	so atm i walk around with 4 phones	10:52
siriusnova	hahaha	10:52
siriusnova	i have too many :X	10:52
lucent	yeah, do you need that many?	10:52
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siriusnova	Nokia 5800 as my main phone / satnav, dash mounted gps, Nokia N900 as my interneting email phone, a HTC Hero (Android) for fiddling around on when my N900's battery dies, and a N85 in my back for emergency backup incase im stuck in the middle of nowhere	10:54
siriusnova	hehehe	10:54
siriusnova	lucent yes :(	10:54
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siriusnova	because each phone i have does one thing well	10:54
siriusnova	lol	10:54
siriusnova	not everything	10:54
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lucent	oh maybe you aren't joking about middle-of-the-desert	10:54
siriusnova	i have to drive all over the place in the middle of the desert	10:55
siriusnova	for work	10:55
siriusnova	also over here there are 3 phone companies and each company has different signal strenghts in different regions	10:56
siriusnova	so i have 3 sims :P	10:56
lucent	ah. that's for work, makes sense now that I read this	10:56
* lucent :)		10:56
siriusnova	:(	10:57
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siriusnova	hehe	10:57
Xisdibik	bah, who broke Vulture's Eye	10:57
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xorAxAx	it is possible to use iphone headsets for the n900, right?	11:05
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granden	how do 8 change alarm signal in maemo 5?	11:06
bigbrovar	I observed that Unlike gnome, kde DE and even the windows and symabian OS, most maemo 3rd party applications dont respect the systemwide proxy settings. Only one that do are some of the core systems apps like web, application manager etc.	11:06
granden	s/8/I	11:07
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bigbrovar	On must LInux platform there is the enviroment file located in /etc which ( among many other things) announces the systemproxy to 3rd party applications ( or so am told) same file is missing in /etc on my N900. am trying to see if i can create it. because my school is behind a network proxy and internet aware 3rd party apps like mauku or gpodder etc never connects	11:09
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suihkulokki	bigbrovar: IIRC on maemo proxy settings are set in gconf, using the same setting keys as in gnome. If 3rd party apps are not using them, bugs should be reported against them.	11:10
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bigbrovar	suihkulokki: so if i add my proxy settings to my wireless profile, it is updated to some gconf settings yeah?	11:12
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suihkulokki	bigbrovar: yes	11:13
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bigbrovar	suihkulokki: the funny thing is an app like gpodder which is a gtk app as a way of working in both gnome and kde, it manages to detect the kde and gnome systemwide proxy, but fails to connect on mameo .. I have reported the issue to affected 3rd party apps	11:14
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bigbrovar	suihkulokki: but it seems must devs i spoke to dont even know how to get their apps to work with proxy on mameo	11:15
ali1234	the standard way of setting proxy is through an environment variable	11:15
ali1234	both gnome and kde do this	11:15
bigbrovar	suihkulokki: You thing creating a enviroment file in /etc and exporting my proxy there wont help?	11:15
ali1234	it doesnt have to be set in /env	11:15
ali1234	there are many way to set environment variables	11:16
siriusnova	So anyway, anyone ever figure out how to hard reset a N900 back to factory fresh?	11:16
ali1234	siriusnova: reflash the firmware	11:16
siriusnova	aside from reflashing	11:16
ali1234	(both parts)	11:16
ali1234	siriusnova: there is no other way	11:17
suihkulokki	bigbrovar: setting proxy in env variable is bad in first place, that would mean you need to reboot to change proxy setting	11:17
siriusnova	darn	11:17
* Arkenoi wonders if koffice displays embedded OLE vector pictures from visio correctly - did anyone try that on a desktop version? docs2go fails completely, OOo does it quite good yet far from being perfect		11:17
bigbrovar	suihkulokki: right now am in a situation where if rebooting to have to change proxy is the con for getting 3rd party apps connect to the internet .. then I will die happy	11:18
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bigbrovar	siriusnova: OMweather, mystory,mauku,gpodder,AP news ( all from the top of my head) alll dont connect to the internet	11:19
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PaulFertser	bigbrovar: i think that generally all apps respect "http_proxy" environment variable.	11:19
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PaulFertser	bigbrovar: same is true for libcurl etc.	11:19
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PaulFertser	bigbrovar: and no, changing an env variable doesn't require reboot.	11:20
bigbrovar	PaulFertser: thank, so creating enviroment file in /etc and exporting http_proxy should work?	11:20
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suihkulokki	PaulFertser: no reboot.. if you just use xterm	11:21
PaulFertser	bigbrovar: unless something else will unset the variable, yes. You need to ensure that env file is sourced by somebody. On debian systems that is done automatically.	11:21
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PaulFertser	suihkulokki: one can re-login without rebooting too.	11:21
ali1234	in other words, creating some random file in /env wont do a damn thing	11:21
ali1234	because maemo wont look for it	11:21
suihkulokki	PaulFertser: not on maemo. and re-login is annoying too.	11:21
ali1234	there is no magical environment file that works on all distros	11:22
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PaulFertser	suihkulokki: i doubt it's too hard to re-login on maemo. One just need to know its rc scripts a little.	11:22
bigbrovar	ali1234: :S am doomed then lol	11:22
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suihkulokki	I love this cult of workarounds.	11:22
ali1234	bigbrovar: if you don't want to put in any effort to learn it, yes	11:23
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bigbrovar	ali1234: dude am ready to learn .. what must i do	11:23
suihkulokki	instead of fixing apps to read the gnome gconf setting people prefer to edit a random file somewhere and re-login everytime they need to change it :P	11:23
bigbrovar	ali1234: been raking my brain at this thing.. filing bugs taking to devs	11:23
suihkulokki	I thought the big deal of OSS is that you can actually fix things..	11:24
ali1234	ha ha my n900 crashed	11:24
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bigbrovar	suihkulokki: well I really cant force the hands of the devs, personally I feel all devs who dont consider proxy settings should be shouted at :p	11:24
ali1234	yep	11:25
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ali1234	but worse is when the OS is setting the environment up properly in the first place	11:25
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ali1234	anyway, the correct way to fix this is to have hildon-launcher properly set up the environment before it runs an app	11:26
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ali1234	that way you dont need to log out to get an updated env	11:26
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ali1234	you do need to quit whatever program, but that is probably unavoidable	11:26
ali1234	this is assuming it doesnt already do this of course	11:27
bigbrovar	ali1234: guess there is just one way to find out ..	11:27
ali1234	run xterm and type "env"	11:28
ali1234	and look for HTTP_PROXY variable	11:28
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bigbrovar	ali1234: just tried that, as u can guess nothing about http_proxy	11:30
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woglinde	damn	11:36
woglinde	why arent my qtnx packages not in extras-testing	11:37
X-Fade	woglinde: When did you submit them?	11:37
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woglinde	hm do I have to promote them?	11:40
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woglinde	hi x-fade btw.	11:40
woglinde	args	11:40
woglinde	now I see the button	11:41
woglinde	sorry for noise	11:41
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woglinde	x-fade will the deps promotoed automagicly?	11:41
X-Fade	woglinde: yes.	11:42
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X-Fade	woglinde: unless it is a user/* category dependency.	11:42
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melmoth	i m lost with promotion to -testing too	11:46
fnordianslip	please test and vote for the new version of conky in extras-testing http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/conky/1.6.1-0maemo5-1.1/	11:46
bigbrovar	ok guys .. creating a enviroment file in /etc and exporting my http_proxy seems to be a good work around, at least gpodder now connects to internet :D	11:46
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woglinde	hm promotion process hangs	11:50
woglinde	since 4 minutes	11:50
X-Fade	woglinde: can take quite a while.	11:50
fnordianslip	i find that stuff happens anyway, but the browser sits there looking stupid	11:50
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X-Fade	fnordianslip: Yeah, that too.	11:51
X-Fade	woglinde: Open another tab and check out your package's page.	11:51
granden	how do 8 change alarm signal in maemo 5?	11:51
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Shadikka	granden: Alarm clock -> Settings?	11:58
Shadikka	or w/e they actually are. Click on the "title bar" anyway when in the Clock/Alarms screen	11:58
Shadikka	and it should have Alarm settings or such.	11:58
granden	Damn, to easy. Thank you	11:59
Shadikka	np :)	11:59
pupnik	RST38h: can i make vgba write to alsa hw:0 ?	12:00
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woglinde	~lart poor maemo.org performance again	12:01
* infobot slaps poor maemo.org performance again around with a large trout		12:02
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dmj726	I've been loking around and I can't find anyway to organize videos in the media player.	12:03
dmj726	Is there any way to do this?	12:03
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pupnik	not that i can tell dmj726	12:03
dmj726	hrm...now it's a big long list	12:04
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konttori_nokia	wohoo, the SSU update was delayed today. Won't come before christmas.	12:04
timeless_mbp	konttori_nokia: because it sucks? :)	12:04
fnordianslip	eek. or is that good, for some reason that i don't know?	12:04
pupnik	ty konttori_nokia . btw have you tested sixaxis bluetooth?	12:04
Shadikka	dmj726: I only see "sort by date" and "sort by class" so no better organization there	12:04
dmj726	is there any way to make it show by folder	12:04
Stskeeps	konttori_nokia: yay, christmas is saved for me ;) (i don't have to update Mer packages like mad over xmas)	12:05
Corsac	DocScrutinizer51: I know what exchange is, I do have outlook at work and I maintain evolution. What I don't exactly know is what 'Mail for Exchange' is. It seems you don't know either, but it's fine.	12:05
Stskeeps	:P	12:05
dmj726	that's all i want, to be able to show just the folder	12:05
pupnik	dmj726: you old-fashioned media-organizing person... ;)	12:05
Corsac	timeless_mbp: in fact, just double clicking on a .crt file in the file manager will let you add it	12:05
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Corsac	I tried to add it directly from the browser but it didn't work, not sure why	12:05
Shadikka	dmj726: Well, at least you can open them from the file manager?	12:05
timeless_mbp	Corsac: hrm, well, i can't remember if we had browser working	12:05
timeless_mbp	i think there's a bug in browser	12:06
dmj726	but can I make it play several in a row that way?	12:06
DocScrutinizer51	Corsac: well I'm rather sure I understand what those three words mean	12:06
Corsac	timeless_mbp: thought the file manager is ok	12:06
Corsac	timeless_mbp: it worked fine with an opml file	12:06
timeless_mbp	certs are special	12:06
timeless_mbp	gecko has its own certificate manager	12:06
Corsac	yeah	12:06
timeless_mbp	so between that	12:06
timeless_mbp	and the fact that the mime type on crt files is often wrong	12:06
timeless_mbp	various bad things will happen	12:07
Corsac	but RSS app doesn't have an 'import feed' option, but double taping one in the file manager works fine too	12:07
Shadikka	dmj726: That I don't know.	12:07
timeless_mbp	Corsac: we're removing ui bugs by removing ui :)	12:08
Corsac	:))	12:08
joppu	:D	12:08
Corsac	isn't that a GNOMEish thing?	12:08
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dmj726	guess I'll just have to suffer through this.	12:09
Jaffa	Morning all	12:09
dmj726	It seems to treat music just fine.	12:09
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dmj726	It's the video management that's messed up.	12:09
dmj726	If only the media player front end weren't closed.	12:09
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dmj726	If it were open, I'd fix it in a heartbeat	12:10
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ali1234	hmm	12:10
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Stskeeps	dmj726: is it in UI or in libraries?	12:11
ali1234	so the other day i updated scratchbox sdk, now it says svn is too old to work with my working copy	12:11
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timeless_mbp	ali1234: fun	12:12
dmj726	The UI has no proper playlist or organization for videos	12:12
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konttori_nokia	timeless_mbp, not because it sucks, but because of internal reasons.	12:12
ali1234	timeless_mbp: yes, i have to wonder whether they intentionally downgraded it, or it's just broken	12:12
timeless_mbp	konttori_nokia: we ran out of the 12 days of christmas?	12:12
timeless_mbp	:)	12:12
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redeeman	if an access point supports "WMM-APSD (Automatic Power Save Delivery)", is that good enough for the N900, or does it have to be PSM?	12:13
red	dmj726: the UI is very lacking in every aspect regarding sorting :P	12:14
red	media that is	12:14
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dmj726	as far as music goes, it's as much as I actually need. With respect to video...horrible.	12:15
redeeman	timeless_mbp: maybe you know?	12:15
timeless_mbp	i wouldn't know	12:15
timeless_mbp	wifi is not my area	12:15
red	well I really miss playing by folder :)	12:15
red	same would work for video too	12:15
Stskeeps	redeeman: WMM usually does the trick	12:15
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dmj726	know of any beter n900 video players ye?	12:17
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pupnik	you coul write somemthing to switch which directory media player scans for your videos	12:19
timeless_mbp	so	12:20
timeless_mbp	for the record ...	12:20
timeless_mbp	Feed Reader does have UI for importing OPML files	12:20
timeless_mbp	it's just well hidden:	12:20
timeless_mbp	1. launch feed reader	12:20
timeless_mbp	2. tap the plus icon in the toolbar	12:20
timeless_mbp	3. tap the import button	12:21
timeless_mbp	4. good luck	12:21
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ali1234	ah i see the problem, i used the svn from outside scratchbox one time	12:21
redeeman	Stskeeps: interresting, i cant seem to find any information on whether the N900 does support the WMM stuff, or if the WMM stuff is better than ordinary PSM	12:21
ali1234	and it upgraded the working dir to 1.6	12:21
redeeman	Stskeeps: but im looking at an accesspoint that claims to support WMM-APSD	12:22
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Stskeeps	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Multimedia_Extensions	12:22
dmj726	ah well...perhaps it's best just to write my own gui	12:23
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redeeman	Stskeeps: yes i already read that, it appears to describe what PSM does	12:25
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pupnik	ali1234: pm	12:28
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OptX	are there any sources for psx4all ?	12:28
ali1234	OptX: they are on github	12:28
ali1234	but they are very out of date	12:28
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woglinde	horray qtnx got promoted	12:29
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OptX	ali1234 you are the one that postet on youtube ?	12:30
timeless_mbp	that reminds me	12:30
timeless_mbp	i was supposed to complain about something	12:30
ali1234	OptX: yes	12:30
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timeless_mbp	woglinde: ping	12:31
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OptX	so when i go to github i will find somethng usefull ?	12:32
ali1234	OptX: sort of	12:32
ali1234	it needs some patching to work on maemo	12:32
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timeless_mbp	ali1234: you have an n900, right?	12:33
ali1234	yes	12:33
OptX	was running not that bad on the youtube vid.	12:33
timeless_mbp	can you install stopish from testing for me?	12:33
ali1234	sure. what does it do?	12:33
timeless_mbp	don't worry about that	12:33
ali1234	lol	12:33
timeless_mbp	i just need you to reproduce something	12:33
timeless_mbp	once you've done that, you can uninstall it	12:34
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timeless_mbp	it draws a bunch of Zeros	12:34
timeless_mbp	but i need to know how many	12:34
redeeman	"yes, i can reproduce it trashes the N900..." :)	12:34
ali1234	does it matter that i have testing and devel enabled?	12:34
timeless_mbp	dunno	12:35
timeless_mbp	if the steps cause a different result, i'll look around	12:35
timeless_mbp	afaict it hasn't been promoted	12:35
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ali1234	extras-devel failed to update again anyway	12:36
timeless_mbp	oh, devel, i thought you meant normal extras	12:36
timeless_mbp	but yeah, the system will work itself out	12:36
ali1234	what section is it in?	12:36
ali1234	or i have to use xterm?	12:36
timeless_mbp	i didn't use xterm	12:37
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ali1234	found it	12:37
timeless_mbp	Utilities!	12:38
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ali1234	00:00:00.0	12:38
ali1234	now what?	12:38
timeless_mbp	hold it in portrait	12:39
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ali1234	00:00:00	12:39
timeless_mbp	hrm	12:39
timeless_mbp	i get 00:00:0	12:39
ali1234	i get 00:00:C (half a zero) very briefly before it reshapes	12:40
ali1234	then everything shifts around	12:40
timeless_mbp	:(	12:40
timeless_mbp	so... i presume you aren't using droid fonts	12:40
ali1234	nope	12:40
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timeless_mbp	it reshapes?	12:41
* timeless_mbp ponders		12:41
woglinde	timles_mbp pong	12:41
ali1234	it's a pity it doesn;t reshape during the transition instead of afterwards	12:41
timeless_mbp	ali1234: maemo design bug	12:41
timeless_mbp	woglinde: nm, ali1234 did what i needed	12:42
timeless_mbp	ali1234: you can uninstall now	12:42
ali1234	i'll keep it, seems a handy app	12:42
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ali1234	it needs a "lap" button (freeze the time but keep running)	12:43
ali1234	s/time/display/	12:44
infobot	ali1234 meant: it needs a "lap" button (freeze the display but keep running)	12:44
timeless_mbp	ali1234: that was the first thing i noticed	12:44
timeless_mbp	you can file that :)	12:44
timeless_mbp	https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?func=add&group_id=1158&atid=4340	12:44
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joppu	MultiTimer kicks Stopish:es ass :P	12:48
woglinde	hms	12:49
woglinde	nxproxy dies	12:49
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woglinde	args	12:52
woglinde	no xauth	12:52
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woglinde	args args	12:52
DocScrutinizer51	moin woglinde	12:52
woglinde	damn	12:53
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woglinde	hm I will simply copy the debian xauth armel binary	12:55
Corsac	mpf, I suck at bugzilla duplicates search	13:00
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timeless_mbp	btw, Eurostar seems like a disaster :)	13:09
thresh	it's funny	13:09
thresh	those fancy trains do not work at relatively high temperatures	13:10
Robot101	they work fine in the cold. they work fine in the warm. they break if you take them from the very cold to the quite warm quickly. :)	13:11
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thresh	0C isnt really 'very cold' :)	13:11
red	:p	13:12
red	indeed	13:12
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red	0C you dont even need a jacket yet	13:12
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red	been around -20C here past week and thats what I regard being cold	13:13
mavhc	is the warm underground?	13:13
thresh	red: exactly	13:13
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ali1234	mavhc: yes, the warm was underground. plus the cold was more like -10C	13:13
thresh	seriously? it wasnt so in Paris	13:14
ali1234	the entrance to the tunnel isn't in paris	13:14
red	when -30 its very cold, you know its very cold that even with proper clothing you dont really wanna spend any time outside :P	13:14
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Hmm, still banned from Android	13:43
Stskeeps	what'd you tell them?	13:43
Stskeeps	:P	13:43
Shadikka	Why's that?	13:43
Gadgetoid_mbp	That's too much power for one stupidly named indian to have	13:43
Gadgetoid_mbp	I phonetically wrote the name some guy was proposing to call his kid, to illustrate its absurdity	13:44
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Gadgetoid_mbp	It wasn't even mildly offensive	13:44
Gadgetoid_mbp	I sincerely hope his kid doesn't attend a school in the UK, sigh	13:44
Gadgetoid_mbp	Had to think long and hard about an indian-sounding name for my daughter that wouldn't get her decked by insensitive kids	13:45
Stskeeps	trust me, kids can turn any name :P	13:45
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Yeah, but some are phonetically more entertaining than others	13:46
Gadgetoid_mbp	My partners surname, for starters, hur hur!	13:46
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Sadly mine sucks too, so we're pretty screwed	13:46
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woglinde	haha	13:47
Gadgetoid_mbp	Anyway, one single entirely non sensical sentence threw him into a fiery rage	13:47
Gadgetoid_mbp	Stupid fscking coon!	13:47
rashed2020	Gadgetoid_mbp: It IS his first kid, you know. You probably should've been a bit less offensive.	13:48
Gadgetoid_mbp	rashed2020: that WAS me being a bit less offensive...	13:48
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woglinde	pissing his kid of whith a sucker name isnt quite fine	13:49
rashed2020	So you think what you said wasn't offensive? Come on, now.	13:49
Stskeeps	just refer him to a boy named sue	13:49
Gadgetoid_mbp	On my scale of offensiveness? it was akin to kissing babies and poking daises into the barrels of rifles	13:49
rashed2020	Gadgetoid_mbp: So you would've said the exact same thing to your boss?	13:50
woglinde	time for #meamo-kids again	13:50
Gadgetoid_mbp	If my boss were going to give his kid an absurdly stupid name?	13:50
Gadgetoid_mbp	Well, probably, once I'd stopped giggling	13:50
rashed2020	No, I'm just saying that I think it was pretty offensive and I would've been pretty angry if that was my kid.	13:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	If someone in the office said they were going to name their kid Skyler, for example, I'd die	13:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	woglinde: there's a maemo-kids? gleee	13:51
glass_	you're a pretty easy guy to kill	13:51
woglinde	gadetoid did he name it after the xkcb sql injection?	13:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	Well, there is now!	13:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	Little timmy tables?	13:52
rashed2020	If there's anything I've ever learnt from Scurbs it's that you never make fun of another man's kid.	13:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	Unless it's retarded	13:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	In which case, it's fair game	13:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	I mean... come on!	13:52
woglinde	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/332365/xkcd-sql-injection-please-explain	13:52
rashed2020	Gadgetoid_mbp: So all the names in the world have to sound fine in English?	13:53
Gadgetoid_mbp	Wow, someone needed to ask that question?	13:53
Gadgetoid_mbp	rashed2020: Yes, if you're attending a non-private English school	13:53
Gadgetoid_mbp	Otherwise, you can call them Tittymcfee Ballsackfondler for all I care	13:54
rashed2020	Yeah, but you don't know what school his kid is going to.	13:54
Gadgetoid_mbp	Neither does he, I'd play it safe	13:54
woglinde	that doesnt matter	13:54
rashed2020	I'm not here to argue, I just think San is a nice guy and you offended him which is why what happened, happened.	13:54
rashed2020	My two cents.	13:54
Gadgetoid_mbp	Call them Max Awesome or Superman Mansuper!	13:54
woglinde	with the false name you will be mobbed everywhere	13:54
Gadgetoid_mbp	What, like Dell tech support woglinde?	13:55
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Gadgetoid_mbp	I can't believe anyone needs an explanation for Timmy tables	13:56
rashed2020	Gadgetoid_mbp: Now seriously speaking and I want you to be completely honest!	13:56
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rashed2020	Gadgetoid_mbp: You honestly believe what you said is not offensive at all? I just wanna know what you think.	13:57
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Gadgetoid_mbp	rashed2020: I just believe that on my scale of offensiveness, he got off pretty lightly	13:57
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rashed2020	Alright, fair enough.	13:58
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Gadgetoid_mbp	But, then, I listen to radio shows where people bash each other, laugh at retards, talk about raping kids, and use the word "fuck" as a replacement for all punctuation	13:58
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Gadgetoid_mbp	And find them hilarious	13:58
* thresh finds it acceptable		13:59
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Termana	Sounds like I missed out on something juicy	14:00
flux	docscrutinizer51, thanks for the hint on the bt-headset with plugin. got mine and it works great, no complains on sound quality either :)	14:00
rashed2020	Gadgetoid_mbp: But you DO see where he's coming from, right?	14:00
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DocScrutinizer51	flux: :-)	14:01
Gadgetoid_mbp	rashed2020: Of course, I'm just bitching about it because I have nothing to do	14:01
Gadgetoid_mbp	The only thing I'd do in #android is link 'em to my article ;)	14:01
Gadgetoid_mbp	Oh wait... I should be working	14:02
rashed2020	Hahaha	14:02
rashed2020	I'll link them if you want me :P	14:02
red	this channel hasn't got the t mode on	14:02
red	just noticed :D	14:02
woglinde	red yes its know	14:02
woglinde	so everyone can set the topic	14:02
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red	yeh, but thats kinda.. unusual :)	14:02
woglinde	and we are not on the ircnet	14:03
rashed2020	Oooh I wanna append something!	14:03
rashed2020	"Happy Birthday to me"	14:03
woglinde	and mods arent here the whole time	14:03
red	true, true	14:03
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Stskeeps	red: maemo community is much about trusting eachother, so :P	14:03
Gadgetoid_mbp	Happy Birthday! rashed2020	14:03
rashed2020	haha thanks.	14:03
Gadgetoid_mbp	You poor bastard... it's 4 days 'til Christmas!	14:03
woglinde	he stskeeps	14:03
Gadgetoid_mbp	Do you get one epic present?	14:04
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LuciusMare	ohai	14:04
red	Stskeeps: Trust no-one!	14:04
woglinde	stskeeps hm do you know about xauth and fremantle is it work?	14:04
red	I trust Mulder	14:04
rashed2020	Gadgetoid_mbp: I do! N900 this year!!	14:04
woglinde	or do I have to set some xserver-options	14:04
Stskeeps	woglinde: no idea	14:04
pupnik	which one of you stole my female-female USB adapter?	14:04
Gadgetoid_mbp	Can't complain about that rashed2020!	14:04
pupnik	:)	14:04
woglinde	wonder how many n900's will be christmas presents	14:04
Termana	Stskeeps - especially don't trust red, what an absolutely idiot.... oh hai red over there, didn't see you there!!1!... lol j/k	14:05
LuciusMare	count me in,i am getting it for xmas	14:05
* pupnik wonders if he will finish his		14:05
LuciusMare	actually	14:05
LuciusMare	not as a gif	14:05
LuciusMare	t	14:05
Termana	pupnik - Sorry i stole your lesbians dude	14:05
LuciusMare	but it just ships the 25th	14:05
Termana	AND the adapter	14:06
Gadgetoid_mbp	my n900 was a sorta christmas present to myself	14:06
DocScrutinizer51	pupnik: it's me. you can't use it with N900 anyway	14:06
LuciusMare	n900 just rocks ^^	14:06
Myrtti	sigh	14:07
LuciusMare	but the poor partitioning,only 2gibs for apps?	14:07
pupnik	hmm, i think we need to connect usb to pair PS3 controller	14:07
* Stskeeps passes Myrtti a christmas cookie		14:07
Myrtti	why do I look into this channel at the most inconvenient times	14:07
Gadgetoid_mbp	The Droid is disappointing :(	14:07
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* red slaps Termana		14:07
* Gadgetoid_mbp goes to brush up on PHP FTP		14:07
red	rude :P	14:07
Termana	:O :P	14:08
red	Gadgetoid hf :p	14:08
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Festive PHP!	14:08
Gadgetoid_mbp	P.S: http://www.gadgetoid.com/2009/12/21/nokia-n900-versus-motorola-droidmilestone/	14:08
adeus	my coworker just bought a droig	14:09
Stskeeps	Gadgetoid_mbp: PHP causes global warming	14:09
Stskeeps	:P	14:09
LuciusMare	your coworker bought a drug???	14:09
adeus	after a day, the phone booted and the touchscreen stopped working :	14:09
adeus	*droid	14:09
Gadgetoid_mbp	adeus: was the volume rocker really loose and naff?	14:09
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adeus	dunno	14:10
adeus	he sent it back	14:10
Gadgetoid_mbp	It's a joke of a phone, to put it bluntly	14:10
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adeus	we've had 3 motorola phones here	14:10
Gadgetoid_mbp	And I was under the illusion it was a Snapdragon powered one, for a while... I almost laughed when I heard it was clocked lower than the N900	14:10
adeus	all broke within 24h	14:11
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Gadgetoid_mbp	The Droid I've got here is still fine, and the DEXT I had in was brilliant	14:11
adeus	we also have the Acer thing here	14:11
adeus	I think that has Snapdragon	14:11
Gadgetoid_mbp	Last Motorola phone I looked at before then was the A1000, and that was superb for a bletch Symbian UIQ phone	14:11
pupnik	hidd --server --nocheck -n is not finding New HID device 00:19:C1:xx:xx:xx	14:11
pupnik	is it better to succeed at being useless or fail at being useful?	14:12
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eitreach	Is it normal that my N900 only shows about 25gb of free space?	14:20
red	and you havent installed anyting big? or moved ur media into the phone?	14:21
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ifreq	how it should be abnormal?	14:21
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woglinde	why is 25gb of freespace not enough	14:22
red	its normal when you have filled 7gb of your filesystem!	14:22
eitreach	This was when I had nothing installed on the phone.	14:22
pupnik	no	14:22
red	doesn't sound normal	14:23
Gadgetoid_mbp	Hit details	14:23
Gadgetoid_mbp	And look at the "Total size"	14:23
red	or type "df -a" in the x term	14:23
pupnik	/dev/mmcblk0p1 is 27.0GB in the correct use of Gigabyte	14:23
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pupnik	thank you Connor/Travan	14:25
lardman	morning	14:25
pupnik	for making 10 million people per day ask why their capacity is less than advertised	14:25
Gadgetoid_mbp	Hahaha pupnik	14:25
Gadgetoid_mbp	Not only that, but 2gb is reserved for app installs, yay!	14:25
flux	docscrutinizer51, actually I might need to revise that statement.. it seems to cut off the sound for a split second at times :/	14:26
pupnik	that's pretty good, considering how well users handle space	14:26
woglinde	return yours n900 if you feel 25 gb is not enough	14:26
Gadgetoid_mbp	Or put a MicroSD card in it...	14:27
eitreach	Geez. I was just asking.	14:27
DocScrutinizer51	flux: I think that's caused by audio source, not headset	14:28
eitreach	If I was somehow missing something that could give me 7gb extra space, I wanted to know.	14:28
DocScrutinizer51	so N900 here	14:28
flux	docscrutinizer51, well, I tried obviously with my N900, it produced the same stream to its audio jack properly	14:28
Gadgetoid_mbp	eitreach: a MicroSD card	14:28
flux	docscrutinizer51, but I shall be following the situation :)	14:28
eitreach	gadgetoid_mbp, already using one. :)	14:29
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Gadgetoid_mbp	eitreach: you win!	14:29
DocScrutinizer51	flux: I tested the hs with outher BT sources. There were no or different issues	14:29
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red	What should I start with if I wanted to be able to connect into my N900 via SSH for wireless file transfer etc?	14:30
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DocScrutinizer51	flux: and on N900 I had the short dropouts really rarely. Always thought it,s caused by other tasks congesting the system for sort moment	14:31
DocScrutinizer51	sHort	14:31
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Long cat is long	14:31
pupnik	red, installing openssh-server will start the ssh daemon on boot	14:31
Gadgetoid_mbp	Shees, not many people in #maemo-kids	14:32
Gadgetoid_mbp	I think someone was lying about that channel...	14:32
red	:)	14:32
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flux	docscrutinizer51, well, I've had several in the last few minutes, but then again at times it seems to go for some minutes without any dropouts	14:33
mgedmin	so, latest Conboy: broken for everyone, or just me?	14:33
flux	a gapless player would be nice, though. any suggestions? can canola2 do it?	14:34
red	pupnik: installed & rebooted	14:34
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mgedmin	red: why reboot?	14:34
mgedmin	this is not windows	14:34
red	guess I understood pupniks comment wrong :D	14:34
Termana	lol	14:34
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pupnik	i didn't check whether postinstall started the server, sorry	14:34
red	was thinking that myself but thought what the heck	14:35
mgedmin	ah, I understood pupnik's comment to mean "openssh starts automatically, as opposed to having to start it from the menu each time"	14:35
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Termana	I'm Maemo converting in the Android room :P	14:41
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LuciusMare	LOL	14:41
LuciusMare	ay ay ay	14:41
LuciusMare	i cant wait till i get my hands on it	14:41
LuciusMare	i never looked forward so much for chrismtas ^^	14:41
ifreq	just converted one more @work	14:41
Gadgetoid_mbp	Working From Home == Being constantly roped into doing fucking household chores by a dumbfsck partner who doesn't understand the concept of WORKING	14:42
red	Gadgetoid_mbp: I know what you mean	14:42
LuciusMare	haha	14:42
red	--> never work at home	14:42
LuciusMare	--> never works	14:42
Gadgetoid_mbp	Ha, all right for some	14:42
LuciusMare	:)	14:42
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DocScrutinizer51	flux: maybe you can test the N900 with a different headset. And also the headset with different source. I would appreciate if you report back. I haven't tested mine with N900 thoroughly' but it worked fine with e.g. OMNIA	14:43
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Termana	he he he - some guy there wants to do programming ON a device. He said he was interested in getting a Droid to do it but no one could suggest an IDE. I told him to go Maemo so he could just cross-compile one.	14:45
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Termana	LuciusMare: The guy that just said he wants to get away from Nokia	14:45
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LuciusMare	i see	14:46
LuciusMare	but away from nokia means no maemo	14:46
LuciusMare	so that was the converted one? :D	14:46
Termana	I'm not even sure why you would want to be writing programs on the small keyboards - but he seems determined to	14:46
lardman	well sometimes you want to code on the move	14:47
lardman	though I'd use Python in that case	14:47
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LuciusMare	hehe	14:47
Termana_	I got d/c	14:47
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Termana_	:\|	14:47
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LuciusMare	why would someone want to coed on the move?	14:48
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Termana	code*	14:48
Termana	I don't know, especially with a tiny keyboard. But w/e I guess :P	14:49
xorAxAx	r.m.o is slooooowww	14:49
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lardman	better than nothing ;)	14:50
lardman	though yeah, I do prefer a proper kb and 3 screens to do my coding	14:50
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lcuk	LuciusMare, inspiration strikes at the oddest moments sometimes	14:54
lcuk	ive been known to just start coding in numerous places	14:54
Stskeeps	geek ;)	14:54
lcuk	indeed	14:55
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lcuk	in amsterdam i was sat on the stairs in the hotel	14:55
thresh	by ur mum?	14:55
Myrtti	random	14:56
lcuk	no, fleshing out some code thoughts	14:56
lcuk	Myrtti, indeed	14:56
Termana	Still, hopefully I've convinced someone to come to the dark side. We have cookies.	14:57
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xorAxAx	the iphone headset works for n900, right?	14:59
Termana	xorAxAx: Doesn't it use the iphones dock connector??	15:00
LuciusMare	uh	15:00
xorAxAx	no, a 4 contact jack	15:00
LuciusMare	hey,if you are already talking about the iphone	15:01
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LuciusMare	i heard something that lets you control a TV	15:01
LuciusMare	it was a box with an IR led that connected to the port	15:01
LuciusMare	came with an app	15:01
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LuciusMare	any way of getting this on n900?	15:01
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X-Fade	LuciusMare: There is an IR lef in the N900 itself.	15:02
X-Fade	*led	15:02
LuciusMare	lol	15:02
LuciusMare	Really?	15:02
LuciusMare	You gotta be kidding me	15:02
LuciusMare	I think i fell in love with it	15:02
X-Fade	yes, next to the camera button.	15:02
Termana	<Termana>	15:02
Termana	BUGabundo_work: I search on that turns up only an ebook. You just don't like it because Maemo is pwning Androids arse right now for his situation.	15:02
Termana	:P	15:02
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LuciusMare	awww	15:02
LuciusMare	so cute	15:02
LuciusMare	now,is there an app for that	15:02
LuciusMare	?	15:03
Stskeeps	irrecco or something	15:03
X-Fade	irreco	15:03
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LuciusMare	yay	15:03
Stskeeps	X-Fade: how's new hardware coming along?	15:03
LuciusMare	lets go on a pranking spree to the shopping centre ^^	15:03
X-Fade	Although more tuning of the IR led might be in order as I don't get a lot of range.	15:03
LuciusMare	aw	15:03
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X-Fade	Stskeeps: Hope to get builder in place today or tomorrow.	15:04
LuciusMare	what do you mean by "not a lot of range" ?	15:04
Stskeeps	X-Fade: sounds good	15:04
LuciusMare	meters?	15:04
lcuk	hey X-Fade, i hear you have same bad weather over there as us	15:04
X-Fade	LuciusMare: 2 or 3meter was what I got when testing.	15:04
DocScrutinizer51	irreco just needed a /etc/init.d/lircd start for me. Which I did a hour ago	15:04
LuciusMare	that is enough,i guess	15:04
* jebba Waiting for maemo.org...		15:04
LuciusMare	heh	15:05
LuciusMare	lets plug the LED into the AC directly >:)	15:05
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LuciusMare	I think that it would get enough power	15:05
LuciusMare	or blow itself	15:05
SpeedEvil	I wonder how much light sensitivity to normal light the recievers have	15:06
* SpeedEvil ponders if the LED flash pulsed at 38khz would do anyrthing		15:06
SpeedEvil	(	15:06
SpeedEvil	if it can be	15:06
SpeedEvil	)	15:06
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LuciusMare	hm	15:07
LuciusMare	do you think that replacing the LED with a "brighter" one would help?	15:07
Corsac	hmhm, seems that git.maemo.org has some ocsp problems	15:07
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: evil hacker ;-D	15:08
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X-Fade	IR is quite directional in the device.	15:08
flux	docscrutinizer51, I suppose I'll try with my laptop some time soon, but I need to upgrade my ubuntu first	15:09
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SpeedEvil	LuciusMare: certainly	15:09
SpeedEvil	LuciusMare: however, that will void your warranty.	15:10
SpeedEvil	LuciusMare: Send me your device, and I'll try it.	15:10
X-Fade	Maybe a diffusing lens would help too ;)	15:10
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DocScrutinizer51	the IR quite probably is a IrDA module. Not easily replacable with a more efficient LED	15:11
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer51: It is supposed to be real CIR.	15:11
DocScrutinizer51	X-Fade: err help me out please. IR?	15:12
DocScrutinizer51	CIR?	15:12
DocScrutinizer51	custom IR?	15:13
X-Fade	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_IR	15:13
DocScrutinizer51	ooh	15:13
ali1234	if it is like any other omap chip the irda controller is in the soc and the hardware pin can also be switched to gpio	15:13
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DocScrutinizer51	so different wavelength. No or a stupid receiver...	15:14
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DocScrutinizer51	X-Fade: where would I apply for a NDA (or a job ;) to get my fingers on the schematics?	15:16
Stskeeps	you might have to sacrifice a finger for that	15:16
Stskeeps	just look at lcuk ;p	15:16
DocScrutinizer51	HAhaha	15:17
DocScrutinizer51	:-P	15:17
* SpeedEvil wonders where I mail the fingers. Do I get firmware if I mail in 20?		15:17
Stskeeps	oh boy, what did i start..	15:18
Stskeeps	:P	15:18
lcuk	its ok, nobody is pointing fingers @ you	15:18
suihkulokki	DocScrutinizer51: type maemo into the keywords: http://www.nokia.com/careers/jobs	15:18
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X-Fade	DocScrutinizer51: Search for: OMAP35x UART/IrDA/CIR Module Reference Guide	15:18
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SpeedEvil	How much - commercially - are schematics like this worth?	15:19
SpeedEvil	For example - what do I need to pay a company to strip the board and measure all the components	15:19
DocScrutinizer51	heh. thanks to both of you :)	15:19
DocScrutinizer51	ZERO?	15:19
Stskeeps	zero?	15:20
DocScrutinizer51	aah that way	15:20
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DocScrutinizer51	roundabout 10000	15:20
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DocScrutinizer51	maybe less	15:20
Corsac	hmhm, there's no public builds of modest?	15:21
DocScrutinizer51	plus 3 to 5 devices	15:21
X-Fade	Corsac: SDK??????	15:21
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Corsac	X-Fade: hmh?	15:21
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Corsac	(I meant the “development version”)	15:21
X-Fade	Corsac: Well at least modest is in there, no?	15:21
X-Fade	Ah.	15:21
Corsac	yeah sorry it wasn't very clear :)	15:21
Corsac	currently one has to wait for next firmware update or build packages itself, right?	15:22
Stskeeps	right	15:22
X-Fade	Corsac: Yes, basically.	15:22
Stskeeps	i'm not sure there's a 'unlocked' thing like in diablo	15:22
Stskeeps	there's a brainstorm about this, Corsac	15:23
X-Fade	Corsac: Unless you remove the SSU meta package and install it yourself.	15:23
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X-Fade	How I miss the old sardine ;)	15:23
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: you plan to start a document service ? :-P	15:23
LuciusMare	holy crap	15:24
LuciusMare	i have a ninja dog	15:24
LuciusMare	i threw it a toy on a couch	15:24
LuciusMare	he jumped,but didnt high enough,hit the couch,did three barell rolls in the air,and fell on legs	15:24
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LuciusMare	i may mention that the couch is not more than half a meter high	15:25
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Corsac	X-Fade: I just wanted to check if I could test the modest packages before the nokia update	15:28
X-Fade	Corsac: You probably can, but a reflash is needed after you have done that.	15:29
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Corsac	i heard the update was due “before christmas” but I'm not sure it'll be on time :)	15:29
Corsac	X-Fade: hmhm ok	15:29
Corsac	(firmware updates means reflash anyway?)	15:29
Corsac	(or will they be OTA?)	15:29
X-Fade	OTA	15:29
X-Fade	SSU == OTA, unless something changed which requires flashing.	15:30
Stskeeps	Corsac: someone mentioned earlier that update will slip	15:30
DocScrutinizer51	suihkulokki: san diego. mountain view. WTF?	15:30
AndrewBlack	OK Stupid idea on not?...t.m.o Native app that is something like Tear(or other browser) with custom UI that had a menu with things like New Messages, Private Messages and all other menu options in it. Then I could remove Address bar and all and make t.m.o default page. Do a new t.m.o theme that removes the menu from my minimalist theme to give more room.	15:30
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer51: maemo is quite a lot of diff places :P	15:30
red	Where should that home-ip app appear at?	15:30
red	It's not in applications, nor in widgets	15:30
Corsac	X-Fade: SSU is Standard Software Update?	15:31
X-Fade	Corsac: Seamless	15:31
Corsac	ok :) thanks	15:31
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red	guess it just doesn't work	15:31
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Corsac	red: I think it's /supposed/ to be a desktop widget	15:32
red	thats how I understood it aswell	15:33
Corsac	red: but it's installed here and it doesn't appear in the list	15:33
red	odd that a app that doesnt function at all is at testing and not in devel	15:33
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DocScrutinizer51	Stskeeps: so I wonder how they get done anything. Or - if they are such globalized and networked - why then mention a particular location at all?	15:33
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer51: cos you rarely would like to relocate to finland.	15:33
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DocScrutinizer51	I even less would like to relocate to mountain view. But for all I can tell it shouldn't matter if a sat on the moon for any maemo job then. Well except for the yw seconds lag	15:35
DocScrutinizer51	2 .seconds	15:35
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Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer51: the other way is to do maemo related job at a subcontractor	15:36
DocScrutinizer51	that's much better than relocate to san diego	15:36
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DocScrutinizer51	I wouldn't mind a 50% abroad time - as I did for TPE	15:37
Stskeeps	TPE?	15:38
red	hmm, I've installed openssh server, ps aux shows usr/sbin/sshd -D running	15:38
red	but attempting to connect to the phone gives connection refused	15:38
DocScrutinizer51	but no permanent relocation to a different continent	15:38
red	any ideas?	15:38
DocScrutinizer51	Taipei	15:38
Stskeeps	ah	15:38
DocScrutinizer51	(OM HQ)	15:38
red	ssh localhost on the phone works atleast	15:39
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red	can connect as root to myself haha :)	15:39
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red	but why on earth does the connection get refused when I try from another machine?	15:39
melmoth	red i have the same issue when using my isp wifi routeur	15:39
RST38h	Stskeeps: Still no sign of X-Fade? (sorry I have been working)	15:39
anpr	hello guys, anyone from the UK and has few minutes ?	15:39
red	my pc is online via another phone (tethering)	15:39
fnordianslip	anpr: go for it	15:39
Stskeeps	RST38h: err, he was talking earlier. he's moving builder/repository i think	15:39
anpr	fnordianslip i got vodafone contract	15:40
X-Fade	RST38h: I'm here.	15:40
RST38h	Sts: aha	15:40
RST38h	X-Fade: !	15:40
melmoth	red this is most probably due to some energy saving protocol thingy the details were too complex for me to remember	15:40
X-Fade	RST38h: Responded to your pm too.	15:40
X-Fade	RST38h: But you didn't respond back.	15:40
anpr	and i wonder if it's direct debit, will they take automatically money from my account	15:40
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RST38h	X-Fade: could you pelase check what happened with Speccy and VE promotions	15:40
anpr	or i have to pay my bills online ?	15:40
fnordianslip	anpr: that's the usual way	15:40
RST38h	X-Fade: Correct. I am currently at wor, and it has been very busy lately	15:40
red	melmoth: energysaving on the n900 so after i install openssh server it wont allow connecting to it?	15:40
X-Fade	RST38h: When did you promote those?	15:40
red	kay :l	15:40
RST38h	X-Fade: Thursday/Friday	15:40
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer51: what did you do at OM, out of curiousity?	15:40
X-Fade	RST38h: ok, let me see.	15:41
DocScrutinizer51	~DocScrutinizer	15:41
BluesLee	hi, i often get "missing python-runtime" when i try to install packages from testing/devel repo, can someone help?	15:41
RST38h	package names: vultures and speccy	15:41
infobot	well, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko	15:41
Stskeeps	ah	15:41
melmoth	red https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3481	15:41
povbot	Bug 3481: PSM Interoperability problem with Freebox ADSL Access Point	15:41
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Stskeeps	is that something to be proud of? :p	15:42
Corsac	red: and there's no bugzilla component for homeip	15:42
fnordianslip	anpr: direct debit comes straight out of your account, with a variable amount.	15:42
melmoth	now, red, i have no clue if this is your problem too, but it sure looks like mine.	15:42
red	melmoth: I think I need to add the pc I want to connect into etc/hosts	15:42
Stskeeps	(that said, that FR gps did rock..)	15:42
red	want to connect from*	15:42
X-Fade	RST38h: -testing -> extras?	15:42
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Corsac	melmoth: I can ssh from my laptop to the n900 using my freebox	15:42
red	Corsac: yeh.. well there was another widget that worked luckily	15:42
melmoth	name resolution issue should not lead to a connexion refused (but could make a prompt not appearing for a minutes)	15:42
red	freebox?	15:43
Corsac	red: how is it called?	15:43
RST38h	X-Fade: yep	15:43
melmoth	Corsac: lucky you, i cannot	15:43
red	Corsac: search for "ip" in the app install program	15:43
Corsac	red: freebox is the adsl/wifi box provided by Free/Proxad (french ISP)	15:43
red	ahh	15:43
Corsac	red: ok	15:43
DocScrutinizer51	Stskeeps: actually I'm proud of my contributions	15:43
DocScrutinizer51	Stskeeps: generall OM EE dpt. was abyssmal	15:44
X-Fade	RST38h: Ok, dir structure in extras dir doesn't look right.	15:44
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer51: as long as you weren't involved with the microsd slot or the casing :P	15:44
melmoth	i need to ssh -R 7777 on the desktop (from the n900) first, then i can ssh -p 7777 localhost from the destop to itself to be on the n900	15:44
red	what would be the syntax to add a IP address into the etc/hosts file? theres one line there at the moment which is "127.0.0.1 Nokia-N900-42-11 localhost"	15:44
DocScrutinizer51	nope	15:44
red	just add the IP I want on the next line? can I use wildcards?	15:45
DocScrutinizer51	Stskeeps: casing is ME or ID anyway. Not EE	15:45
Stskeeps	:nod:	15:45
DocScrutinizer51	though I kicked asses in that domain as well occasionally ;-P	15:46
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Stskeeps	i wouldn't have minded a s3c6410 based freerunner	15:47
RST38h	X-Fade: Is it fixable? =)	15:48
DocScrutinizer51	Stskeeps: there are exactly 3 of those on this planet :-D	15:49
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer51: shame there aren't more	15:49
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer51: some people should hook up with smartdevices and work out something..	15:49
DocScrutinizer51	hmm. OM decided to do suicide basically before MP started	15:49
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DocScrutinizer51	alas Sean decidednot to disclose gta03 schematics :-(((	15:51
X-Fade	RST38h: yes, I think so. Just need to create the dirs and move the files in there and reindex.	15:51
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lardman	X-Fade: !	15:53
lardman	X-Fade: I wonder if you could tell me who uploaded the fort77 package to diablo-extras?	15:54
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DocScrutinizer51	what?? lol	15:54
X-Fade	lardman: Search the extras-cauldron builds list?	15:54
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DocScrutinizer51	fort == FORTRAN ? O.o	15:55
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer51: no, I was just wondering.	15:55
X-Fade	RST38h: Should look better now.	15:55
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lardman	DocScrutinizer51: FORTRAN, tyes	15:56
RST38h	X-Fade: checking...	15:56
lardman	X-Fade: I think it may be from a while back actually	15:56
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DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: context?	15:56
X-Fade	RST38h: Hmm need to wait before the repository is signed and synced.	15:56
X-Fade	RST38h: But locally it looks good now.	15:56
RST38h	X-Fade: Oh, ok...	15:57
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lardman	DocScrutinizer51: the existing fort77 package doesn't depend on libf2c, which it ought to, so it breaks some builds	15:57
RST38h	X-Fade: Thanks, I will retry tonight	15:57
X-Fade	RST38h: But this has never worked it seems.	15:57
SpeedEvil	(01:23:53 PM) DocScrutinizer51: SpeedEvil: you plan to start a document service ? :-P	15:57
RST38h	X-Fade: BTW, there is another more difficult problem	15:57
* lardman heads home to avoid the icy hill		15:57
RST38h	X-Fade: You mean, promotions from testing to extras never worked?	15:57
RST38h	mm?	15:57
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: aah	15:57
X-Fade	RST38h: No, non-free apps in Extras.	15:57
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RST38h	Oh....worked before	15:57
X-Fade	RST38h: For fremantle at least.	15:57
RST38h	And VE is not even non-free	15:57
RST38h	X-Fade: I have multiple non-free apps in extras, they work	15:58
RST38h	X-Fade: And VE is in free	15:58
RST38h	(and it did not work	15:58
X-Fade	RST38h: Yeah, but dir structure was messed up.	15:58
RST38h	Weird	15:58
RST38h	X-Fade: Anyway, here is a another problem	15:58
X-Fade	Copy paste error in config file. Which I have not touched since I set it up.	15:58
RST38h	X-Fade: FBreader depends on the zlibrary package	15:59
RST38h	X-Fade: I can mark zlibrary into "libs" group but then it does notupdate when users update fbreader via HAM	15:59
RST38h	X-Fade: I can mark it "user/libs", then it updates, but this is officially considered unkosher	16:00
X-Fade	Yes, library updates are a pain.	16:00
RST38h	X-Fade: little green elves are telling me that Debian uses user/libs for this kind of stuff	16:00
X-Fade	The only thing that pulls them in is when an app depends on the new version.	16:00
RST38h	but my app DEPENDS on the new version	16:00
RST38h	That is the funny stuff	16:00
X-Fade	RST38h: That won't work, because that is not allowed.	16:00
RST38h	X-Fade: Yea, so I heard	16:01
RST38h	X-Fade: See, FBReader package does depend on the new version but still it does not update	16:01
* RST38h checks		16:01
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X-Fade	RST38h: It should on promotion?	16:01
RST38h	yea	16:01
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Jaffa	RST38h: Hang on, that'd mean that if app A depends on libfoo (>= 1) and app B depends on libfoo (>= 2); app B could be broken by HAM.	16:02
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X-Fade	Jaffa: Your app can conflict with <=2 too ;)	16:02
RST38h	Jaffa: only if app A conflicts with >=2	16:02
anpr	guys have you heard about java on maemo ?	16:03
X-Fade	Basically you do >= for minor version upgrades.	16:03
Jaffa	RST38h: I mean something like: app A is created, libfoo v1 and A are promoted and installable. If HAM never updated even with a dependency on a newer version, than apt wouldn't like app B ever being installed, even if the new libfoo was in extras-*	16:03
RST38h	Jaffa: man, I am just a simple cow, do not put me into this dll hell =)	16:04
X-Fade	Repository management, not as easy as it seems at first sight ;)	16:04
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lcuk	so microsofts dll hell was only one of the circles	16:05
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DocScrutinizer51	and lib.so management even more fun ;-)	16:06
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lcuk	:( indeed	16:06
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DocScrutinizer51	though basically it's eas. Given all devels obey best practice	16:06
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ManuelSE	i hope we can get food into extras	16:14
X-Fade	Well, I could use some right now :)	16:15
LeoD	me too	16:15
ManuelSE	im thinking a protocol to provide bluetooth advertisement for human services	16:16
ManuelSE	e.g. restaurant menu	16:17
ManuelSE	or a walking advert of the things you want to sell	16:17
ManuelSE	without central server	16:17
SpeedEvil	Remember the 'view illegal offers' checkbox.	16:18
jaska	heh	16:18
Corsac	hmhm, no x86_64 version of flasher-3.5?	16:19
melmoth	Corsac: you dont need one	16:20
melmoth	just install the 32 bit dependencines	16:20
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Myrtti	Corsac: I'm still using the older flasher	16:20
Myrtti	don't know if it works with N900 tho	16:20
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Children, beware older flashers	16:21
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Myrtti	Gadgetoid_mbp: I've got an older device ;-)	16:21
RST38h	X-Fade, Jaffa: Folks, what if I make zlibrary user/other?	16:21
RST38h	Many non-executable components are marked this way	16:21
Gadgetoid_mbp	Ew Myrtti, far too much information!	16:21
X-Fade	RST38h: Then it is game over.	16:21
X-Fade	I will remove it from the repo then.	16:22
Corsac	melmoth: I know, it just means I'm forced to install all 32bits libs and can't install the .deb package	16:22
RST38h	Other option is to include it into fbreader	16:22
Corsac	which kind-of sucks :/	16:22
mgedmin	RST38h, libraries in user/ are feeeeeh	16:22
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: ping?	16:22
RST38h	X-Fade: Suggest some kind of solution then, other than "wait until Nokia fixes HAM in Harmattan"	16:22
X-Fade	RST38h: Are there other apps using that lib?	16:22
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RST38h	X-Fade: not that I know of	16:22
mgedmin	X-Fade, I think so, some kind of a game	16:22
Jaffa	RST38h: "user/library" is not a supported category	16:22
mgedmin	really a demo app of zlibrary	16:22
mgedmin	no serious apps	16:22
RST38h	MishaS mentioned that something else uses it though	16:23
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, pong	16:23
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X-Fade	RST38h: any new version of fbreader should trigger the upgrade then.	16:23
mgedmin	apt-cache rdepends libzlibrary	16:23
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Jaffa	RST38h: Does the "Depends: zlibrary (>= mybugfixver)" not work?	16:23
mgedmin	vbataxx	16:23
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Have you had a chance to run maemo-org through the new theme maker?	16:23
RST38h	Jaffa: Does nnot seem to	16:23
X-Fade	RST38h: Then that needs to be looked into. As that really should work.	16:24
RST38h	Jaffa: I will recheck tonight, as I get home, that the dependency line is correct	16:24
RST38h	X-Fade: Will check	16:24
mgedmin	RST38h, did fbreader ever make it to extras?	16:24
mgedmin	wouldn't it be okay to say all -devel users to remove it and reinstall?	16:24
mgedmin	that should work, right?	16:24
RST38h	mgedmin: No. In fact, due to these update problems, I cannot even move to Testing	16:24
RST38h	Oh BTW	16:24
X-Fade	RST38h: Single upgrades of lib, no. But as dependency for another app, yes.	16:24
RST38h	X-Fade: In relation to FBreader again: can you include me as a maintainer for fbreader, zxlibrary and zlibrary-dev?	16:24
X-Fade	RST38h: You are really mixing up 2 issues.	16:25
RST38h	X-Fade: I applied, and asked Geometer to approve, but he cannot find the right button to do that	16:25
RST38h	X-Fade: In my case, it does not get updated as a dependency of fbreader. Nobody updates zlibrary separately.	16:25
X-Fade	RST38h: I'll approve you.	16:26
Jaffa	RST38h: If HAM doesn't upgrade zlibrary package with a depends line like that, that's cause to open a VERY high priority bug against HAM	16:26
X-Fade	Jaffa: it does.	16:26
fiferboy	RST38h: Has geometer said anything about how the 0.12 version porting is going?	16:27
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, not yet I use windows at work and last I checked it wasn working on windows, I also couldn't get 1.2.5 or 1.2.6 to work on Linux either	16:27
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, any certain question or problem you have with theme?	16:27
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fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Just the highlighting of selected items (like in list views and toggle buttons)	16:28
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: I really like the theme, and would use it all the time if that was working	16:28
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AndrewBlack	fiferboy, Thanks I´m going to look into that today I was holding off fixing the uninstall bug until I get Highlightin working	16:29
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Cool. If you need any help let me know	16:30
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fiferboy	AndrewBlack: I could try running the source through 1.2.7 if you want - to see if the highlighting works	16:30
RST38h	fiferboy: He will work on it after NY holidays (i.e. after Jan 110	16:32
RST38h	)	16:32
AndrewBlack	I´ve got to fix a problem with address entry box on web browers but here is source if you want to try it on 1.1.7 for highlighting http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2240466/Maemo/maemo-org.png	16:32
RST38h	X-Fade: Thanks =)	16:32
fiferboy	RST38h: Good to know, thanks	16:32
ManuelSE	other devices might also be good, but i think N900 is best because it has the real linux	16:32
RST38h	fiferboy: I have tried compiling 0.12 myself but it needs implementing a few new zlibrary widgets like ZLProgressBar or something	16:33
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_claesbas	Anyone know where the files for Hermes is located? .. I managed to validate with my friends facbook account but I can't seem to change back to my account.. even after reinstall	16:34
fiferboy	RST38h: It like the library view doesn't use tap scrolling and tap scrolling is much simpler in reading view	16:35
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RST38h	fiferboy: The latest version I uploaded has tap scrolling enabled and configured to be usable	16:35
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RST38h	fiferboy: Both views support it too	16:35
mgedmin	_claesbas, you want to talk to Jaffa	16:35
RST38h	(in fact it is more of a problem in library view where you want to select books, not scroll :))	16:35
fiferboy	RST38h: Yes, I am using it and it works. But it always seems so fiddly to select books in the library view	16:35
RST38h	yes	16:35
_claesbas	ok	16:35
RST38h	the book selection spots are too small	16:35
_claesbas	mgedmin,	16:35
_claesbas	ta	16:35
* mgedmin gave up on fbreader's library view for that reason, plus many others		16:36
* jebba awaits headers		16:36
RST38h	and if you miss them, it scrolls	16:36
* mgedmin a bit sad that the "add book" button doesn't fit on the toolbar anymore		16:36
RST38h	mgedmin: You can configure it in, but at the cost of some other button	16:36
mgedmin	yeah, I know	16:36
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mgedmin	actually, can I configure it in ~/.FBReader?	16:36
RST38h	yes	16:36
RST38h	ui.xml I think	16:37
mgedmin	last few versions I tried, failed, ended up configuring it in /usr/share/..../toolbar.xml	16:37
mgedmin	hm	16:37
RST38h	no, ~/.FBreader is ok	16:37
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RST38h	although...	16:37
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mgedmin	well, I tried ~/.FBReader/toolbar.xml	16:38
mgedmin	not ui.xml	16:38
RST38h	hmm...no, I am afraid you cannot do it in ~/.FBReader	16:38
mgedmin	hah	16:38
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RST38h	Sorry	16:38
RST38h	it will always load /usr/share files first and when it gets to your ~ files, the toolbar is already filled with stuff	16:38
* mgedmin mapped a hardware key to open book, so it's fine		16:38
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ManuelSE	can i stop mediaplayer process? it keep spawning	16:40
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fnordianslip	woohoo. i have a new central heating boiler. i can stop growing ice in my living room :)	16:42
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Gadgetoid_mbp	fnordianslip: I thought you said rice for a minute there	16:43
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fnordianslip	Gadgetoid_mbp: well, with my macbookpro's dodgy keybd, i could forgive you for thinking i said that	16:44
mgedmin	ManuelSE, don't ask questions and run away before we can answer!	16:44
Gadgetoid_mbp	How's the harvest?	16:44
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gtessier00	Good morning folks	16:44
Gadgetoid_mbp	mgedmin: Don't talk to people who aren't here...	16:44
Gadgetoid_mbp	It's a little bit creepy	16:44
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* jebba waiting for headers		16:49
mgedmin	wazd_n800, congrats!	16:49
mgedmin	so why are you still irc'ing from the n800 then? ;)	16:50
Gadgetoid_mbp	wazd_n800: Welcome. To the fold.	16:50
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Gadgetoid_mbp	n800 is better, obviously	16:50
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Gadgetoid_mbp	It's a whole -100 better	16:50
wazd_n800	just kidding, ofcourse no n900 for me :D	16:50
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Corsac	I'm a bit lost with “feature requests” not being tracked in bugzilla. What's that brainstorming about?	16:52
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* Stskeeps gives wazd_n800 a n900 cookie		16:52
wazd_n800	Stskeeps, :D	16:53
Stskeeps	wazd_n800: back from countryside ye?	16:53
Stskeeps	t	16:53
wazd_n800	Stskeeps, in progress)	16:53
Stskeeps	hehe	16:53
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: What do you use for theme background?	16:53
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, you can just use the default on for this test build. Joopu did the maemo-org bg for me and I need to get it from him	16:54
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Gotcha	16:54
fiferboy	wazd_n800: Hiya	16:54
wazd_n800	fiferboy, hey	16:54
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fiferboy	wazd_n800: Has your DDP device been delivered to its final destination?	16:55
wazd_n800	fiferboy, in progress	16:55
mgedmin	it is an epic saga	16:55
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wazd_n800	fiferboy, its path is too complicatted)	16:56
gtessier00	I want to receive my n900 :(	16:56
fiferboy	wazd_n800: What country is it going to?	16:56
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Stskeeps	ar, i was going to sign up for ddp..	16:56
* Stskeeps kept on pushing it forward		16:57
wazd_n800	fiferboy, we will pickk it up in st. petersburg after ny and send it too Belarus with vlad	16:57
fiferboy	Stskeeps: Is DDP over?	16:57
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Stskeeps	fiferboy: i think deadline for signing up was today	16:57
Stskeeps	/ ordering	16:57
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Stskeeps	not sure though	16:58
fiferboy	:(	16:58
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RST38h	wazd: Doesn't vlad have a loan unit?	16:59
wazd_n800	RST38h, he has	16:59
wazd_n800	RST38h, summit	16:59
* jebba no longer waiting for headers!		16:59
LuciusMare	er	17:01
LuciusMare	can N900 record video with sound?	17:01
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Gadgetoid_mbp	If your microphone works, ha!	17:02
LuciusMare	ok	17:02
LuciusMare	and what about the MMS case?	17:02
wazd_n800	LuciusMare, only with piano soundtrack and captons	17:02
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LuciusMare	is there an app for that? appleshaped bubble	17:02
Gadgetoid_mbp	ROFL wazd_n800	17:02
jebba	LuciusMare: the video recorded by the camera is unbelievably good.	17:02
LuciusMare	yes	17:02
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LuciusMare	i just read a versus with the ifone	17:02
LuciusMare	*iphone	17:03
Gadgetoid_mbp	dun dunlalun dingalingalingalinga linga! "The daring moustached stranger dashes to he rescue"	17:03
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Anyone comparing the N900 to the iPhone is a fucking idiot	17:03
LuciusMare	and there was "iphone: video recording with sound, n900: video recording"	17:03
LuciusMare	i know	17:03
Gadgetoid_mbp	The iPhone is a feature phone	17:03
LuciusMare	i know,hell	17:03
LuciusMare	i hate it,too	17:03
Gadgetoid_mbp	I love it, but it's a featurephone and nothing more	17:03
LuciusMare	i just couldnt find the specs in a nice table	17:03
Gadgetoid_mbp	It's the best damned featurephone ever created	17:03
Gadgetoid_mbp	But it's NOT A SMARTPHONE!@(&!	17:03
RST38h	really?	17:04
wazd_n800	how can you determine it?	17:04
* LuciusMare waves		17:04
ShadowJK	Some say it's not a smartphone because it has a touchscreen	17:04
LuciusMare	okay,stop that,iphone sucks,we know it	17:04
wazd_n800	what's the difference	17:04
LuciusMare	or iphone rocks,you suck	17:04
LuciusMare	depending on your opnion	17:04
LuciusMare	so,can n900 do mms?	17:04
ShadowJK	nope	17:04
glass_	hehe	17:04
Gadgetoid_mbp	Anything with a capacitive touchscreen is not a smartphone, capacitive is a disease	17:04
wazd_n800	no	17:04
Myrtti	some say it's a multimixer. Some say it's a game device. All we know, is he's called the SMARTPHONE	17:04
jebba	Failed to fetch http://osso.stage.dmz/dists/fremantle/sdk/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz Could not connect to osso.stage.dmz:80 (10.5.1.102). - connect (111 Connection refused)	17:04
suihkulokki	there is as many defintions of smartphone as there is analysts..	17:04
jebba	trying to build my package	17:05
Gadgetoid_mbp	Most modern smartphones, the ones with capacitive input, are simply feature phones	17:05
suihkulokki	I mean they even count blackberry as a smartphone	17:05
Gadgetoid_mbp	they have a strong emphasis on usability, and are quite clearly targeted at your average joe consumer	17:05
wazd_n800	wow, battery died almost insttantly in the street)	17:05
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fnordianslip	jebba: had that happen to me. just resubmit your package again and hope for the best	17:05
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Whereas good ole Windows mobile you need a degree in tibetan monk waterfall meditation to not throw at a wall within 10 minutes of using it	17:06
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thomasvs	any idea why talk on maemo.org thinks that I'm a bot (and spells the message wrong) ?	17:07
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Jaffa	thomasvs: Ask X-Fade	17:09
X-Fade	Jaffa: No -> ask the talkmaster ;)	17:10
jebba	fnordianslip, uh huh. Man, soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much wasted energy waiting for foobar servers.	17:10
fnordianslip	jebba: yep, i just did a dput again a while later and it worked. there was a whole run of fails just after mine too.	17:12
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LuciusMare	oh oh oh	17:14
LuciusMare	is it possible to make an app,which would make the usb port master?	17:14
SpeedEvil	It is unclear	17:15
LuciusMare	i mean,then i would connect a microusb>female A-usb cable and i could connect everything i want,like a flash disk	17:15
SpeedEvil	It's not simple.	17:15
LuciusMare	aw	17:15
SpeedEvil	That certainly won't work	17:15
LuciusMare	aw aw	17:15
SpeedEvil	you at least will need a source of power.	17:15
LuciusMare	why?	17:15
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SpeedEvil	There isn't one.	17:15
LuciusMare	Hm	17:15
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LuciusMare	microusb does not recieve power?	17:15
LuciusMare	if it can recieve,it can be modified so it will give power!	17:15
SpeedEvil	Also - there have been conflicting statements as to the USB port. The current status is that nobody has done it.	17:15
SpeedEvil	err - ...	17:16
wazd_n800	RST38h, I'm gonna read brief course "How to become Blender Pro in 30 seconds" :)	17:16
Jaffa	X-Fade: Ah, I missed the "talk"	17:16
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SpeedEvil	LuciusMare: In the same way that a engine that uses gasoline can be converted to produce it?	17:16
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LuciusMare	um	17:16
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SpeedEvil	wazd_n800: See Blendtek.	17:16
SpeedEvil	tec	17:16
wazd_n800	SpeedEvil, not this blender :D	17:17
LuciusMare	bad comparsion	17:17
Corsac	SpeedEvil: that would work for an AC motor :)	17:17
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SpeedEvil	LuciusMare: it's actually not.	17:17
LuciusMare	engine that uses gasoline is like a CPU that uses electrcity	17:17
SpeedEvil	LuciusMare: I have designed this sort of stuff.	17:17
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: hrhrrhrr	17:17
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LuciusMare	it of course cant	17:17
SpeedEvil	LuciusMare: you can't do what you're claiming is easy	17:17
LuciusMare	i dont say it is	17:17
SpeedEvil	It is utterly impossible - the hardware does not exist inside the phone.	17:17
SpeedEvil	(to supply power)	17:17
SpeedEvil	Without opening and voiding warranty of course.	17:18
Corsac	but does host mode really need to supply power?	17:18
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ali1234	no, it doesn't	17:18
SpeedEvil	yes.	17:18
ali1234	no	17:18
lbt	yes	17:19
Corsac	(for example, for cameras)	17:19
ali1234	lolz	17:19
SpeedEvil	It needs to generate power if you want to simply plug it in.	17:19
Corsac	if it's self-powered	17:19
ali1234	ok, it depends what you want to connect to it	17:19
SpeedEvil	OTG requires some power - it's not a large amount of power ~1mA IIRC.	17:19
SpeedEvil	But that isn't there.	17:19
ali1234	OTG is nothing to do with host mode though	17:19
ali1234	host mode is in fact a subset of OTG	17:19
lbt	is this just a debate or is there news on host mode?	17:19
ali1234	no, no news	17:20
SpeedEvil	If it's self powered, and the n900 is in host mode, you may still need external power - if it works at all	17:20
lbt	ah, nm - ta	17:20
SpeedEvil	OTG is a standard introduced later than host mode - which contains host mode as one of its elements.	17:20
ali1234	exactly, and as such, presence or lack of OTG does not indicate anything about presence or loack of host mode	17:21
* SpeedEvil needs to do more reading of the kernel drivers and poking at stuff.		17:21
lbt	AFAIUI OTG is about negotiated switching between host/client	17:21
SpeedEvil	Fundamentally.	17:21
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SpeedEvil	The SoC can switch between host and device mode. It uses the same two pins to do this. There appears to be no chip connected after the SoC before the USB port.	17:22
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ali1234	then, host mode should work	17:22
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SpeedEvil	Hence - it would seem - with the correct kernel drivers and poking of stuff, that you can put it in host mode.	17:22
SpeedEvil	You will usually need external power to use most devices.	17:23
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SpeedEvil	Of course, there may be hidden reasons why this doesn't work.	17:23
ali1234	external power = a powered hub or self powered device	17:23
SpeedEvil	no.	17:23
mgedmin	back in the 770 times people managed to do Stuff with external power injectors etc.	17:23
SpeedEvil	not quite.	17:23
ali1234	yes	17:23
mgedmin	most powered hubs do not supply power to the upstream port	17:23
SpeedEvil	Some self powered devices require external Vusb to boot.	17:24
ali1234	all correctly designed powered hubs do not supply power upstream; and this is not necessary	17:24
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SpeedEvil	At least one printer, and one hub.	17:24
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SpeedEvil	would not talk at all without vusb.	17:24
SpeedEvil	self-powered hub	17:24
ali1234	of course, if you have a powered hub, then even your broken self-powered device will work :)	17:25
SpeedEvil	though the hub would continue to talk if vusb was removed	17:25
wazd_n800	Stskeeps, do you have a proper camera btw?)	17:25
wazd_n800	Stskeeps, I need sharp photo of two screens near each other	17:26
Stskeeps	wazd_n800: people tell me to buy a camera :/	17:26
wazd_n800	Stskeeps, n800 and n900	17:26
wazd_n800	Stskeeps, to test n900 ui's on n800	17:26
Corsac	I could do n810+n900 but that wouldn't help you I guess?	17:26
wazd_n800	Corsac, well, maybe this will do	17:27
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, tried building it yet?	17:27
Milo-	wazd_n800 screenshot?	17:27
wazd_n800	Milo-, photo	17:27
wazd_n800	Milo-, their screenshots are identical	17:28
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Milo-	ok	17:29
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Corsac	wazd_n800: I don't have it at hand so it'll wait tonight, is it ok?	17:31
Corsac	wazd_n800: what will you exactly need?	17:32
Corsac	a picture of both home screens, side by side?	17:32
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wazd_n800	Corsac, sure, no rush	17:33
wazd_n800	Corsac, well, two sharp enabled white screens in one shot woulld be perfect	17:33
lcuk	wazd_n800, like this: http://liqbase.net/liqbase_dualstack.JPG	17:33
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Corsac	sharp enabled?	17:34
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wazd_n800	Corsac, sharp shot, enabled screen :)	17:35
jebba	woglinde: i'm making 50G space (on fast scsi RAID!) for /scratchbox	17:35
wazd_n800	lcuk, can't check it right now	17:35
SpeedEvil	http://www.google.com/trends?q=n900+nokia%2Ciphone+3gs&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=1 hmm	17:35
lcuk	ahhh well its 2 n900s sidebyside with different content	17:35
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Corsac	wazd_n800: sure, then no problem, will do that tonight	17:38
rashed2020	My brain is gonna explode	17:39
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rashed2020	My computer just doesn't want to flash my phone.	17:39
wazd_n800	Corsac, thx alot	17:39
Corsac	wazd_n800: and you'd prefer a plain white screen, the home desktop, a webpage or an image, … ?	17:39
LuciusMare	yes	17:40
lcuk	Corsac, wazd_n800 ahhh i see what you want, you would be better with a grid pattern	17:41
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tcarl\|work	With luck, my N900 will show up tomorrow.	17:42
lcuk	or just total measurements of usable space	17:42
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toggles_w	tcarl\|work: lcuk is personally delivering now? wow	17:43
wazd_n800	Corsac, plain white	17:43
rashed2020	Is there a 64 bit of the flasher?	17:44
rashed2020	version of the *	17:44
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niqt	hi	17:44
Corsac	rashed2020: it seems not :/	17:44
rashed2020	:(	17:44
niqt	i hvae problem uploading my file in extra-devel	17:45
wazd_n800	Corsac, I just need compared sizes to figure out aproximate resolution	17:45
rashed2020	Ughhh... I need to find a work around	17:45
wazd_n800	Corsac, like n800 = 800x480, then n900 = 720x384 for example	17:45
SpeedEvil	0xffff is a flasher - which reportedly may syupport	17:46
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba	17:46
Corsac	hmhm, but isn't n900 800x480 too?	17:46
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lcuk	wazd_n800, dpi works	17:46
jebba	SpeedEvil: i just got an email from 0xFFFF guy this morning. Says it should work, but not certain yet. N900 support there. I'll try to test it later today.	17:47
SpeedEvil	I vaguely remember someone reporting success rearlier torday	17:47
lcuk	an easy guestimate is the internal windowed size of a normal 8x0 app is about the same as fullscreen on the 900	17:47
jebba	be sure to grab the hg (mercurial) repo copy, as tarball definitely doesnt support it	17:47
thomasvs	X-Fade: who is the talkmaster ?	17:47
X-Fade	beware that flasher-3.5 also flashes mmc, modem etc.	17:47
X-Fade	thomasvs: reggie	17:48
jebba	hg clone http://hg.youterm.com/0xFFFF	17:48
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Hmm, still no highlights after running through 1.2.7...	17:48
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AndrewBlack	I´ve looked over my template and can´t find anything that would cause it, so I´m certain its a theme maker problem	17:49
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Reflect used to have the same problem, but it was fixed in the latest version	17:50
tcarl\|work	Think I'm odd, because I store my N900 development in Team Foundation Server? :P	17:50
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, yep but Joopu didn´t do anything just buil it on 1.2.6 and they worked	17:50
fiferboy	I couldn't generate a deb package, so I copied the files over and deleted the gtk cache and did the hildon-theme-cacher thing	17:51
jebba	0xFFFF has features that look enticing like:	17:51
jebba	-c console prompt mode	17:51
jebba	-D [0\|1\|2] sets the root device to flash (0), mmc (1) or usb (2)	17:51
jebba	-s [serial] serial port console (minicom like terminal)	17:51
jebba	-x extract configuration entries from /dev/mtd1	17:51
jebba	etc	17:51
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Maybe it is something left over from the old version. I probably should have removed all the data files, rather than copy over them	17:51
Stskeeps	jebba: console prompt mode? hmm	17:51
red	anyone have info on spotify for n900? .p	17:51
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, Kontorri always says to delete old folder first	17:52
fiferboy	Will do	17:52
jebba	i'll give it a test as soon as i have the new scratchbox space set up.	17:52
jebba	Stskeeps: 0xFFFF dev wrote: "im waiting for the n900, so i'll continue the development when i got it " can't wait ;)	17:53
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Stskeeps	jebba: ah, console prompt is just interactive 0xffff	17:54
Stskeeps	-x is known, CAL	17:54
Stskeeps	-s is just to cold flash	17:54
jebba	ah	17:54
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Stskeeps	best thing people can do is to get serial access, tbh	17:56
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AndrewBlack	fiferboy, if deleted only folder doesn´t work try building nuvo theme that comes with theme maker and see if highlight works on it	17:58
Corsac	mhmh, and is it just me or http://www.maemo.org/community/brainstorm/ doesn't load?	17:58
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Will do, deleting the folder didn't work :(	17:58
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lantizia	Lo, on my N900 - finally sick of the default Media Player... any alternatives available?	17:59
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Corsac	“It's not just you! http://maemo.org looks down from here. ”	17:59
Corsac	ok, thanks :)	17:59
lantizia	maemo.org doesn't look very alive and kicking	18:00
tcarl\|work	yeah. seems to be sad.	18:01
thresh	works here	18:01
tcarl\|work	Someone needs to reset the internet.	18:01
tcarl\|work	Just came back.	18:01
thresh	although a bit slow	18:01
mgedmin	in other news, water is wet	18:01
tcarl\|work	I'm sure that garage.maemo.org is running at the speed of a glacial ice flow.	18:01
lantizia	Other media players?! anyone!?	18:02
tcarl\|work	mplayer? :P	18:02
mgedmin	lantizia, there are several	18:02
mgedmin	I haven't seen one that would be obviously better than the builtin media player	18:02
lantizia	mgedmin: haven't seen any in the repo's... extras/testing/devel	18:02
jebba	woglinde: /dev/vdc1 50G 17G 33G 34% /scratchbox :) should do (marginally) faster writes now too, as i preallocated metadata.	18:02
mgedmin	canola 2 is shiny, but startup speed kills	18:02
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Corsac	nop, m.o doesn't work at all from here :(	18:03
fnordianslip	Corsac: try this page (and if it works, vote for conky) :) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/conky/1.6.1-0maemo5-1.1/	18:04
fnordianslip	it loads for me	18:04
lantizia	omg media player has picked up on a cover.jpg... AT LAST!	18:04
lantizia	but only one... maybe a size limit on the jpg?	18:04
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X-Fade	lizardo: Yeah for now, will fix it of course.	18:20
X-Fade	lizardo: But our biggest priority is getting things moved to the new hardware asap. As slowness is a big pain.	18:20
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lizardo	X-Fade: agreed... I gave up using SVN regularly as I did before (I was using git-svn already so I commit things locally)	18:21
woglinde	jebba yes	18:21
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woglinde	hm I should build git-buildpackage for fremantle	18:22
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fiferboy	AndrewBlack: highlighting works with 1.2.6	18:24
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stevenhong	anyone use the double os in the n810?	18:25
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Corsac	stevenhong: Stskeeps	18:27
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qole	So I found a fix for my secondary Debian desktop on the N900! New versions of Easy Debian and the rootfs available...	18:29
Stskeeps	qole: cool :)	18:29
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AndrewBlack	fiferboy, works for maemo-org?	18:30
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Just checking now	18:30
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stevenhong	i use the tool for clone the system to the mmc.but when i use to mmc for boot. always tip failed.	18:31
AndrewBlack	because I thought maemo-org was build using 1.2.6 last time	18:31
stevenhong	i don't know how to do	18:31
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qole	The keyboard didn't work in the LXDE environment at all, but qobi wrote a little utility that fixed the window.	18:32
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: No, it isn't working for maemo-org, but it looks like something weird happened when I replayed the postinst file	18:32
rashed2020	Ok so now it gets stuck on the second boot screen :/	18:33
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AndrewBlack	wonder if - in theme name could cause any problems	18:33
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qole	hmm sure is quiet in here.	18:35
qole	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=435602#post435602	18:35
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qole	weird, suddenly I see everyone...	18:37
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fnordianslip	even the dead ones?	18:38
Macer	ugh	18:39
Macer	i give up on dd-wrt as a vpn server	18:39
Macer	i think i am going to have to swap it out and just make a debian pptp server	18:39
* mgedmin could never make friends with any vpn		18:39
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mgedmin	give me ssh and I'll behappy	18:40
* ShadowJK made friends with openvpn		18:40
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rashed2020	Macer: Look up OpenVPN Access Server	18:44
mgedmin	I don't see how openvpn can make friends with DNS	18:44
rashed2020	Ok seriously. Flashing is way more error prone then I think it should be.	18:45
rashed2020	It just does NOT want to work.	18:45
ShadowJK	64 bytes from h2 (xx.xx.xx.xx): icmp_seq=17 ttl=56 time=63873 ms	18:46
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ShadowJK	3g \o/	18:46
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* AndrewBlack can´t figure out this Theme Maker Highlighting issue		18:47
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fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Taking out the "-" doesn't help	18:48
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AndrewBlack	I´m really not sure should work because source image is setup right, image is being sliced right, but something in gtk files is wrong or something is being installd wrong.	18:51
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fiferboy	AndrewBlack: The gtkrc looks like it is refering to the correct images	18:51
qole	fiferboy: single photo chooser on your photo frame app needs to start in MyDocs	18:51
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fiferboy	qole: Duly noted	18:51
qole	fiferboy: thanks!	18:52
fiferboy	qole: Do you use single photo mode?	18:52
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rashed2020	Is the N900 the same for all regions?	18:52
rashed2020	Hardware-wise.	18:52
cehteh	keyboards differ	18:52
rashed2020	That's it?	18:53
cehteh	other specs are the same	18:53
rashed2020	What about NOLO?	18:53
qole	fiferboy: I tried... it is stuck in /usr, I can't browse my photos.	18:53
cehteh	nolo?	18:53
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fiferboy	qole: Ah	18:53
BluesLee	hi	18:53
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red	why is flash terribly slow on maemo browser?	18:53
rashed2020	Well, what I'm trying to figure out is if the phone allows me to flash roms from different regions.	18:53
BluesLee	does someone use maemo-mapper?	18:53
cehteh	dunno .. but prolly yes	18:54
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, I´m out of ideas on how to fix it	18:54
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: I'll keep looking	18:54
red	youtube/embedded video playback is totally and utterly too low speed, let alone few simple flash games	18:55
* mgedmin used maemo-mapper on his n810 a lot; has it installed on his n900 and has run it a time or two		18:55
woglinde	mgedmin hm why not navit?	18:55
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BluesLee	mgedmin: meamo-mapper seems to download all the maps to MyDocs/maps/Openstreetmap	18:55
red	kinda kills the idea of having flash in a mobile browser in the first place doesnt it?	18:55
moo-_-	red: because it does not have 2 GHz x86 CPU	18:55
moo-_-	red: you need to design flash especially for mobile (think Flash Lite)	18:55
BluesLee	mgedmin: its seems to be possible to download it to an sqlite db	18:56
mgedmin	woglinde, navit was the closed map crap on the n810? it was crap, that's why not it	18:56
ShadowJK	Apparently americans didn't get powertop?	18:56
woglinde	mgedmin nope	18:56
red	since when did u need 2ghz cpu for youtube low quality playback	18:56
mgedmin	ShadowJK, yeah, I heard that somewhere	18:56
red	oh right, never	18:56
woglinde	mgedmin navit is freesoftware you only have to convert osm-maps for navit	18:56
BluesLee	mgedmin: but it refuses to download any maps to the db	18:56
woglinde	and then you can gps-rotuing	18:56
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mgedmin	woglinde, ah, ok	18:56
mgedmin	does it use vector maps?	18:57
woglinde	no downloads of maps needed	18:57
woglinde	only one	18:57
BluesLee	woglinde: i also used navit on my freerunner and i was happy with it	18:57
red	moo-_-: just makes it feel like utterly redundant feature	18:57
BluesLee	woglinde: is it in the repos yet?	18:57
woglinde	blueslee yes	18:57
woglinde	blueslee I am working on it for fremantle	18:57
red	as its one of the big advertizement things	18:57
BluesLee	woglinde: ohh, i missed that	18:57
mgedmin	there's a proliferation of maps apps for maemo lately	18:57
woglinde	cp15 build some debs out of svn	18:57
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rashed2020	Ugh.. I was hoping that's why it wasn't working so I'd just give up.	18:57
mgedmin	I remember installing some of them (roadGPS?), and being a bit disappointed	18:57
woglinde	but they have some mem alloc problem in the latest revs	18:58
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woglinde	blueslee we are using navit in a customerproject	18:58
BluesLee	woglinde: i have a maps image for navit, which i mount	18:58
moo-_-	red: n900 is able to watch Flash pr0n streams from redtube.com, xhamster.com, youporn.com... you name it. How that could be useless???	18:58
woglinde	blueslee sure	18:58
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BluesLee	woglinde: i used it on my freerunner, but i will also install it on the n900 if its available	18:59
woglinde	blueslee but maemo-mapper needs wifi to download maptiles	18:59
woglinde	and has no real routing	18:59
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woglinde	as far as I saw it	18:59
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BluesLee	i thought it has routing	18:59
woglinde	hm	18:59
BluesLee	there is a menue entry for it	18:59
ShadowJK	m.youtube has higher quality (more than qqqqqqqcif or whatever) these days. Too bad it redirects you to full youtube if it suspects you're within 100 miles of a flash-capable device	18:59
LuciusMare	ine Clock] [One Second Line Clock] [Manual Pulse Generator]	19:00
LuciusMare	oops	19:00
LuciusMare	misclick	19:00
woglinde	hm maemo-mapper? with route as text?	19:00
BluesLee	mgedmin: do you download your maps to a sqlte db?	19:00
mgedmin	I don't care where maemo-mapper stashes them	19:00
mgedmin	I care that it lest me download maps beforehand and then browse them when I'm offline	19:00
BluesLee	hmm, i care, as i dont want millions of maps or files on my device	19:00
mgedmin	I thought it used sqlite dbs, but then I once ran 'file openstreetmap.db' and got 'GDBM 2.x database' or something back	19:00
mgedmin	millions?	19:01
woglinde	gdbm 2.x uh	19:01
mgedmin	well, maemo-mapper doesn't download entire maps	19:01
BluesLee	mgedmin: just a joke	19:01
mgedmin	it downloads only those areas and zoom levels you select	19:01
mgedmin	which is a plus and a minus	19:01
mgedmin	worst problem with maemo-mapper is that gdbm or sqlite or whatever it uses is TOO DAMN SLOW	19:01
mgedmin	try to pan a lot at a high zoom level, you'll end up with a queue of seven hourglasses and will have to wait 5 minutes for it to catch up	19:02
BluesLee	in that case i will download the maps, make an image and mount it to MyMaps/.maps/Openstreetmap	19:02
mgedmin	also, it tends to run out of memory	19:02
mgedmin	closing and reopening fixes that, but you have to do it manually	19:02
mgedmin	I suspect the DB cache is too large	19:02
BluesLee	okay	19:02
rashed2020	If flashing the eMMC is exactly the same process as flashing a ROM. Why would I have trouble doing one but not the other? Any clues?	19:02
mgedmin	I've no clue what you mean by "make an image"	19:02
mgedmin	rashed2020, I'd assume it's not exactly the same process...	19:03
mgedmin	I'm yet to flash mine	19:03
derf	Maemo-Mapper shouldn't need much of a database cache at all.	19:03
mgedmin	I guess I'll discover what the diffs are soon	19:03
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fiferboy	AndrewBlack: If I copy the "images" folder from maemo-org to a working nuvo install, I get your buttons highlighting properly	19:03
derf	It caches the actual, decoded map tiles.	19:03
rashed2020	mgedmin: They're the same command line arguments afaict. It's just about picking the right image name. One gets flashed fine and the other can't find the phone which blows my mind.	19:03
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: It is definitely something wrong with the configuration	19:03
red	are there any tower defense games for n900@635?	19:03
red	yet*?	19:04
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SpeedEvil	tetris?	19:05
SplasPood	red: haha, I was just missing that myself	19:05
BluesLee	woglinde: is navit not stable enough on the maemo platform?	19:05
red	its my fav pda game genre :p	19:05
red	towermadness on iphone i miss :)	19:06
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Gandalfimus	btw m8s .. best app for twitter?	19:06
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mgedmin	rashed2020, I assume you're following this guide, right? http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900	19:07
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SpeedEvil	red: poke game vendors	19:07
BluesLee	woglinde: do you know tangogps?	19:07
qgil	hi there, anybody with GPS problems in the N900 willing to give a try to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7026#c25 ?	19:07
povbot	Bug 7026: Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view	19:07
SpeedEvil	tango is moving map only	19:07
mgedmin	rashed2020, what error does it give you? what os do you have on the desktop/laptop?	19:08
mgedmin	I ask about OS because I see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4955	19:08
povbot	Bug 4955: Native flasher 3.5 can't flash eMMC image on windows	19:08
rashed2020	Ah damn it.	19:08
ShadowJK	"You can even try indoors" <- what, you imply indoors ever works?	19:08
* SpeedEvil puts down gloovs		19:08
ShadowJK	hm, maybe coarse yeah..	19:08
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: I get fine GPS lock indoors	19:08
qgil	ShadowJK: yes	19:08
woglinde	blueslee yes	19:08
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: not quickly	19:08
woglinde	blueslee it was verystable	19:09
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rashed2020	Took me forever to get a 32bit machine to I'm gonna have to convince its owner to let me install linux	19:09
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BluesLee	woglinde: then i will try it out on my n900	19:09
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woglinde	blueslee but I have to write an vehicle-gps-liblocation plugin	19:09
ml-N900	vmware ftw	19:09
mgedmin	rashed2020, hey, read that bug -- latest 3.5 flasher release supposedly works fine	19:09
woglinde	blueslee its not yet there	19:09
ShadowJK	I don't get any GPS indoors, I'm right under a metal roof :-)	19:09
woglinde	I will try to upload it this evening	19:09
qgil	ShadowJK: then please try the steps at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7026#c25	19:09
povbot	Bug 7026: Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view	19:09
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, thats odd I guess I can just use the gtk files and stuff	19:09
SplasPood	I found I had much better luck with network assist gps when I switched the host to supl.google.com	19:10
* mgedmin managed to get GPS indoors but only by placing the GPS receiver right next up against the window, and waiting hours		19:10
BluesLee	woglinde: that sounds good	19:10
mgedmin	otherwise GPS indoors is "won't happen"	19:10
SplasPood	As in, works all the time VS hardly ever	19:10
qgil	mgedmin: then you know what to test too :)	19:10
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rashed2020	mgedmin: Ah, I just read it. Doesn't apply to me. With me it finds the device, then says starting flash mode and hangs on "No suitable USB device found"	19:10
qgil	SplasPood: same for you	19:10
xeviox	is it possible to use the latest Qt 4.6.0 with the maemo sdk?	19:10
SplasPood	qgil: hrm?	19:11
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Yeah, just trying to overwrite the gtkrc file and see if everything looks as it should	19:11
BluesLee	mgedmin: its very cold here otherwise i would offer to be a beta tester:-)	19:11
qgil	SplasPood: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7026#c25	19:11
povbot	Bug 7026: Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view	19:11
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, ok	19:11
SpeedEvil	trying indoors - cancelling rwo requests.	19:11
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BluesLee	woglinde: its very cold here otherwise i would offer to be a beta tester:-)	19:11
woglinde	blueslee g you would not be the only one	19:11
rashed2020	mgedmin: The USB icon on the phone also suddenly disappears, and the second boot screen with the circles comes up then hangs.	19:12
qgil	BluesLee: I decided to dig on these GPS problems while being in Helsinki...	19:12
SpeedEvil	qgil: still no connection - two 3g bars	19:12
mgedmin	rashed2020, and you have flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.exe?	19:12
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BluesLee	qgil: what kind of temperatures you have there?	19:12
qgil	SpeedEvil: following the steps described in the bug report?	19:12
mgedmin	rashed2020, if so, complain at that maemo bug	19:12
lardman	evening all	19:13
rashed2020	mgedmin: Indeed I do.	19:13
woglinde	hehe lardman	19:13
rashed2020	Alright, I'll do that.	19:13
qgil	BluesLee: http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/02974.html	19:13
SpeedEvil	qgil: all but disabling data roaming - I have no capability to data roam here	19:13
qgil	SpeedEvil: which network do you have?	19:13
SpeedEvil	qgil: t-mob uk	19:13
BluesLee	qgil: thats pretty cold	19:14
SpeedEvil	also no net connectoin was made.	19:14
ShadowJK	qgil, pretty much instantly a "coarse" lock.. There's no scale on Ovi Maps, but I would estimate the error to be about 10 kilometres	19:14
SpeedEvil	qgil: maps important, or location-test-gui useful too/	19:14
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Copied over the gtkrc now highlighting is NOT working	19:14
* SpeedEvil turns off roaming		19:14
qgil	well, maps is the easiest for people to test	19:15
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, so gtkrc from maemo-org kills highlighting	19:15
qgil	SpeedEvil: I wonder if you are missing a step or you have something related to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7057	19:15
povbot	Bug 7057: supl.nokia.com not working for Networking positioning on T-Mobile USA	19:15
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: correct	19:15
SplasPood	qgil: I'll see if I can do that later, I will say I'm not having any more issues after changing the host.	19:15
SplasPood	yea, maybe 7057	19:15
SpeedEvil	qgil: ok - data roaming was already at ask	19:15
ShadowJK	I moved N900 to a spot by the window where N810 gets locks	19:15
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SplasPood	7057 sounds like what my issue was/is	19:16
siriusnova	ugh my N900 rebooted again	19:16
AndrewBlack	if you can send me the gtk files from nuvo I can package maemo-org up with them.	19:16
siriusnova	sounds like its time to reflash	19:16
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qgil	if you can share your GPS tests under the conditions described at Bug 2076 that would be really appreciated	19:17
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2076 Adding file directories (i.e. Documents, MMC) to Task Launcher/Navigator	19:17
* lardman wonders how well this will work on the N900: http://xcweather.co.uk/m/		19:17
qgil	oops I mean Bug 7026	19:17
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7026 Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view	19:17
Corsac	hmhm, I didn't notice maemo mapper was available in extra-devel	19:17
mgedmin	siriusnova, be careful about frequent reboots, there's that scary bug that makes n900 hang on boot when it's been rebooted 17 times without being powered off	19:17
siriusnova	:O	19:17
SplasPood	mgedmin: lol, what?	19:17
wazd	wee, I'm back	19:17
siriusnova	seriously?	19:17
red	mgedmin: lol?	19:17
qgil	or even http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=436482#post436482 if you're more a kind of a Talk dude	19:17
andre__	siriusnova, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350	19:17
povbot	Bug 6350: getbootstate bricks the device after 17 reboots if there are no normal boots in between them	19:17
mgedmin	^	19:18
siriusnova	LOL	19:18
siriusnova	wow	19:18
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andre__	well, there's a workaround described. :-P	19:18
red	scary	19:18
woglinde	what?	19:18
mgedmin	not as fun as "android camera out of focus every second period of 42.5 days", or the "everything you type is treated as input in a root shell", but maemo is trying to get its own share of interesting bugs	19:19
siriusnova	yes Nokia please give us a firmware update stat	19:19
siriusnova	:\|	19:19
SpeedEvil	qgil: 3 3g bars inside, restarted location-test-gui, no fix after 3 mins, with no data	19:19
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SpeedEvil	I have definately had network positioning working before	19:20
andre__	siriusnova, http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/undelayed_bugfix_releases_for_nokia_open_source_packages-002/	19:20
SpeedEvil	of some sort	19:20
red	any chance that at some point u could tweak kinetic scrolling to be more sensitive/faster?	19:20
SplasPood	mgedmin: yea, I think I was the first person to post about the 'root bug' you described in android	19:20
SplasPood	mgedmin: fun stuff	19:20
lardman	~curse that bloody email client for always asking for credentials when I connect	19:20
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, that bloody email client for always asking for credentials when I connect !	19:20
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SplasPood	The most recent android 'exploit' relating to signed updates is kinda cute too	19:20
mgedmin	the openoffice.org "cannot print on Tuesdays" was also nice	19:20
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red	lardman haha	19:21
qgil	SpeedEvil: I guess we must take values from T-Mobile users with a grain of salt while that other bug is open? no idea	19:21
SplasPood	1 vs a 3 in the code, thats all and small sized signed updates are passed without check	19:21
SpeedEvil	qgil: I have a couple of other SIMs I could try	19:21
siriusnova	well thats what you get for being an "early adopter"	19:21
siriusnova	:p	19:22
siriusnova	like me	19:22
qgil	that would be appreciated SpeedEvil	19:22
SpeedEvil	once eaten - food cooling.	19:22
qgil	very useful for the T-Mobile bug report, by the way	19:22
wazd	ouuuh, fast internets!	19:22
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Even weirder - if I keep the nuvo gtkrc and just use your colour definitions highlighting doesn't work!	19:22
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SpeedEvil	qgil: also - 3g failed at one point, and it went to 2g - still no position - though it asked to reconnect again	19:23
wazd	qgil, hello	19:23
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, odd	19:23
qgil	SpeedEvil: what about a reboot, just in case	19:23
qgil	after lunch :)	19:23
SpeedEvil	k	19:23
woglinde	random reboot	19:23
woglinde	cool	19:23
qgil	wazd: hi there	19:23
ShadowJK	bah. N900 switched the screen off, and the GPs seemed to have swiched off too	19:23
ShadowJK	no locks though	19:23
ShadowJK	(other than network triangulation)	19:24
ali1234	indoors gps seems to work for me	19:24
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Hmm, if I go back to the original nuvo gtkrc it isn't working anymore either	19:24
qgil	ShadowJK: I don't expect anybody to get fine accurate locks indoors, really	19:24
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: This is pretty messed up	19:24
woglinde	ali1234 I even get with n810 indoor gps locks	19:24
crashanddie_mbp	lardman: how's the Qt version coming along?	19:24
AndrewBlack	yeah N900 theme still needs some work on UI people´s part	19:25
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ali1234	i reflashed an n900 yesterday for someone, cos they were having problems with the nokia maps	19:25
ShadowJK	qgil, it was in a location the N810 gps gets indoor lock too ;-)	19:25
ali1234	first thing they did was load up maps, and it already had the exact position	19:25
crashanddie_mbp	moo qgil	19:25
ShadowJK	kinda cool it didn't need to go consult some huge database about celltower locations...	19:26
qgil	hi crashanddie_mbp where are you?	19:26
crashanddie_mbp	qgil: Perpinya	19:26
qgil	ah ok :)	19:26
crashanddie_mbp	you?	19:26
qgil	Köln	19:26
crashanddie_mbp	djeezus, what the hell are you doing in Koln?	19:26
woglinde	qgil prost	19:27
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qgil	my kids are born here, and non-coincidentally, the mother as well	19:27
woglinde	okay	19:27
woglinde	I have to go	19:27
woglinde	till later	19:27
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qgil	so thank you for your GPS reports :)	19:28
qgil	bye!	19:28
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crashanddie_mbp	I love how qgil always joins and leaves for no apparent reason. He arrives unannounced, leaves unannounced, does all of his business in the dark, he's like the Batman of #maemo	19:30
mgedmin	qotd++	19:30
zash	haha	19:30
mgedmin	... if we had such a thing as a quote of the day for #maemo ...	19:30
SpeedEvil	qgil: argh - sorry - I found SIM and remmebered the reason I wasn't using it was that it gets no signal. Sorry - not going outside to stand on the path while it's snowing.	19:30
SpeedEvil	oh	19:30
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zash	crashanddie_mbp: qgil needs moar screen+irssi+ssh	19:31
ali1234	i thought n900 only did a-gps, not network positioning?	19:31
SpeedEvil	yeah - it's doing _some_ sort of network positioning	19:31
Macer	FINALLY	19:31
ShadowJK	it does network positioning too	19:31
Macer	ugh. got it.	19:31
zash	SpeedEvil: but how?!	19:31
SpeedEvil	I allow it to connect to the internet, and it has a position within 5s or so	19:31
SpeedEvil	dunno	19:31
crashanddie_mbp	I wonder if we could piggyback on Apple's positioning system	19:31
SpeedEvil	with a stated accuracy of 3.5km	19:32
zash	can you broadcast coordinates from accesspoints?	19:32
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zash	that'd be cool	19:32
lardman	timeless_mbp: what wonders of English are you updating me to now....? ;)	19:32
Corsac	SpeedEvil: how do you know the stated accuracy?	19:32
SpeedEvil	Corsac: location-test-gui	19:32
zash	isn't there some free wifi location db's	19:34
etrunko	ಠ_ಠ	19:35
* lardman goes to try getting a lock with out of date almanac + ephemeris data		19:35
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, that stated accuracy was showing 60km for me at one point :)	19:35
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SpeedEvil	600km here	19:35
ShadowJK	lol	19:35
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SpeedEvil	which is basically 'the uk'	19:36
ali1234	zash: in the UK there used to be consume.net but i think that project is well and truly dead	19:37
oscillik	i really hope that Google port Google Maps onto Maemo...even though i think i know the answer :(	19:37
ShadowJK	port j2me and run the j2me google maps version ;-)	19:37
oscillik	would that still have access to the GPS module though?	19:38
Gadgetoid_mbp	Haaard day's life	19:38
oscillik	Google Maps is the only thing i miss Android for	19:38
ShadowJK	oscillik, that's the big part of porting j2me/dalvik/etc...	19:38
Gadgetoid_mbp	oscillik: Here's to that! If only we could feed GPS data into the web version of google maps easily	19:38
oscillik	i REALLY needed it today, and Ovi Maps just had epic fail written all over it when i needed it most	19:39
Gadgetoid_mbp	Oh wait... there's an API	19:39
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lardman	hmm, /me gets 4 sats seen within a minute, then get too cold to stand on the balcony	19:39
ShadowJK	ovi maps seems to use some strange map source... like, even private "roads" I wouldn't drive a tractor on show up.. ones that have 10 metre tall trees growing in the middle of them..	19:40
lardman	ShadowJK: select "car" rather than "tank"	19:40
ShadowJK	lol	19:40
lardman	s/tank/tank with tree-destroying flails	19:40
Gadgetoid_mbp	Bit of a shame MicroB wont let you drag to pan google maps	19:41
lardman	yeah	19:41
oscillik	Gadgetoid_mbp: yes, if i could pan the maps easier, that would at least be useable	19:41
lardman	you can activate the mouse pointer then it will work	19:41
oscillik	lardman i tried that, it didn't work	19:41
ShadowJK	yeah it works fine with mouse pointer	19:41
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Me too	19:41
lardman	oscillik: oh right	19:41
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Gadgetoid_mbp	But I'm sure a GPS integrating maps app would be possible, using google maps data	19:42
Corsac	SpeedEvil: hmhm, is it loaded by default or is there a packag?	19:42
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Gadgetoid_mbp	And the MicroB engine, I would guess	19:42
oscillik	lardman it just changes the cursor to a 4-way cursor, and when i move it, it doesn't move the map	19:42
lardman	Gadgetoid_mbp: what sort of thing?	19:42
ShadowJK	ovi maps data seems nice enough to me... it's just that you can't do much with it :-)	19:42
lardman	Gadgetoid_mbp: Surely maemaps does that?	19:42
Gadgetoid_mbp	Haven't given it a try, to be honest lardman	19:42
Gadgetoid_mbp	I never found any third party map application very effective, so I gave up trying them	19:43
ali1234	is there some way of getting my own data into ovi maps, like KML with gmaps?	19:43
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Okay, weirdest of all: if I build your theme with the name "Maemo" in 1.2.7 everything works fine	19:43
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Capital "M" no "-"	19:43
Gadgetoid_mbp	That said, most of that experience was on the N810 and OSX/Windows/Ubuntu on my netbook- trying to use a bluetooth GPS effectively	19:43
lardman	Gadgetoid_mbp: it's a web app, Google mashup sort of thing	19:43
Gadgetoid_mbp	lardman: again, shame about the lack of draggin'	19:45
oscillik	lardman interesting, i've never heard of that...gonna fire it up on the N900	19:45
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ShadowJK	maybe someone should make a video of dragging in google maps..	19:45
lardman	also try the Latitude stuff, I need to finish my latitude update daemon too though	19:45
Gadgetoid_mbp	Maemaps is kinda nice, though	19:46
Gadgetoid_mbp	You do that, ShadowJK	19:46
red	tried multiple games from extras, all awful	19:47
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Gadgetoid_mbp	red: to be expected	19:47
red	oh well, maybe in 3 years there will be enjoyable ones	19:47
Gadgetoid_mbp	What, like there are on the N810?	19:47
red	Gadgetoid_mbp: yup	19:47
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: I get a fix within ~5sec here (with internet) with a precision of the shown location of lt 20m. very first reported location after 'aybe 3s is off around 100m. all with desktop location widget	19:47
oscillik	lardman: thanks for the tip on maeMaps, that's a nifty little webapp :D	19:47
GAN900	Jaffa, ping?	19:48
Gadgetoid_mbp	Gaming on the N900 is a bit of a pipedream, get a Pandora	19:48
red	oh well, hope psx emulator is working soon	19:48
Stskeeps	and a pandora isn't a pipedream?	19:48
Gadgetoid_mbp	Oh the irony in that statement, at least Pandora isn't complete vapour anymore	19:48
Corsac	hmhm, seems that I should get it from http://repository.maemo.org/dists/maemo5.0/ but what is this repository? It's not extra, it's not “nokia applications”, it's not “system software updates, so?	19:48
red	has anyone tested the sega one?	19:48
SpeedEvil	Gadgetoid: not legally - the limits of what yu can do with GPS data are very limited.	19:48
Gadgetoid_mbp	Actually, I lie, gaming on the N900 with a wiimote and TV is pretty awesome	19:48
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer51: with decent signal I get that too - but with barely usable GPS - indoors - snow on roof - it takes some minutes to lock	19:49
red	that could be	19:49
SpeedEvil	Gadgetoid: err - the limits of what you can do with google-maps data is very limited	19:49
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: also note that e.g. FR gets a fix in less than 10s without any connectivity, if sat signal is really good	19:49
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer51: and it's warm.	19:49
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Indeed SpeedEvil, I just want some sort of browser plugin that builds a URL with co-ordinates from the GPS- grabbed from GPSD I guess	19:50
ShadowJK	Gadgetoid, first you swipe left to right to bring out the pointer and the pointer icon. Then you tap the pointer icon so that a red line appears over it. Then you have pointer and can drag in google maps	19:50
Gadgetoid_mbp	We have GPSD and barely use it	19:50
ShadowJK	I just tried it	19:50
SpeedEvil	Gadgetoid: like the microb plugin?	19:50
SpeedEvil	Gadgetoid: in the repos?	19:51
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: so intuitive!	19:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	SpeedEvil: ohrly?	19:51
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SpeedEvil	yarly.	19:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	ShadowJK: It works, but jesus it it piss poor in terms of responsiveness!	19:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	ShadowJK: Cheers	19:51
ShadowJK	it's about as responsive as ovi maps, sadly..	19:51
wazd_5130	Ah, not yet home(	19:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	Hahaha, harsh	19:52
Gadgetoid_mbp	But true	19:52
Gadgetoid_n900	aha i see google latitude updater	19:52
lardman	Gadgetoid_mbp: am going to write a better version	19:53
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lardman	Gadgetoid_mbp: or indeed am writing a better version, to run as a daemon and auto-update at intervals	19:53
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Gadgetoid_n900	lardman nice one... less bloattastic too?	19:54
lardman	indeed, will not have a gui ;)	19:54
SpeedEvil	lardman: it would be nice if it listened to accells too	19:54
lardman	though will have a control panel for settings	19:54
SpeedEvil	lardman: absolutely stationary - don't bother unless stale position already	19:55
lardman	SpeedEvil: accels? and integrate for distance?"	19:55
SpeedEvil	no :)	19:55
lardman	ah ok	19:55
lardman	well liblocation does that anyway	19:55
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lardman	won't send updates to you if you've not moved	19:55
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SpeedEvil	lardman: It seemed to always assume a minimum velocity of 50m/s in the uncertainty	19:55
lardman	hmm, sounds quite fast to me ;)	19:56
SpeedEvil	which is probably pessimistic for when it's sitting on a desk.	19:56
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lardman	yeah, but that's down to how it performs the calc isn't it	19:56
SpeedEvil	(looking at the error growth in location-test-gui)	19:56
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lardman	for Latitude the actual location is all that matters	19:56
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SpeedEvil	yeah	19:56
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lantizia	Is there a limit on the size of the jpg that the media player will use for album art?	19:59
lardman	hmm, odd, filename limit of ~90 chars for a WinXP filename	19:59
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lantizia	one 300x300 jpg worked... but the others that are bigger didn't	20:00
wazd_5130	I can bet it's hardcoded	20:01
lantizia	the album thing?	20:01
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wazd_5130	Yeah	20:02
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lantizia	harded coded how?	20:02
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lardman	the size limit	20:02
wazd_5130	300x300 - art, others - not	20:03
lardman	res limit rather	20:03
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AndrewBlack	fiferboy, lower case m doesn´t work lol	20:03
lantizia	well how can I find out the actual limit?	20:03
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Looks that way :)	20:03
AndrewBlack	fuuny	20:03
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lardman	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=436220&postcount=2 I mean really?!	20:04
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: I'm working to see if I can create a package from what was generated that will cleanly update from the old version	20:04
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lardman	~bug 5315	20:05
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5315 3 Mobile SIM card rejected	20:05
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AndrewBlack	well I´m going to have the build my source package my self anyways unless that is working in Theme Maker now. So all I really need is the source anyways. If you can build it from http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2240466/Maemo/Maemo.png its has a few fixes in it	20:06
Stskeeps	AndrewBlack: my god, it'	20:06
Stskeeps	s full of orange	20:06
AndrewBlack	Stskeeps, lol don like it	20:07
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: I can get you a package you can upload to the autobuilder with XB-Maemo-Display-Name if you like	20:07
Stskeeps	AndrewBlack: nah, i'll probably make it into a mer theme :P	20:07
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, Cool becuase I´ve been using py2deb for my package and couldn figure out XB-Maemo-Display-Name with it	20:08
AndrewBlack	Stskeeps, Cool	20:08
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: py2deb makes a source package?	20:08
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, yep	20:09
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fiferboy	AndrewBlack: All you need to do is extract the package, put XB-Maemo-Display-Name in the control file and rebuild the package with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S	20:09
UndrWater	is it appropriate to discuss n900 here?	20:10
GAN900	AndrewBlack, I'd make some of the elements lighters	20:10
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, ok	20:11
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GAN900	Text boxes, for instance, should probably be white.	20:11
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fiferboy	AndrewBlack: I will send you the source output from theme maker 1.2.7 then	20:11
* GAN900 would really love a light theme.		20:11
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, OK thanks	20:11
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fiferboy	GAN900: Try nuvo_fre from the theme maker garage page	20:11
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GAN900	tigert, Bora. Plankton. Fremantle.	20:12
AndrewBlack	GAN900, was thinking of doing a light one next	20:12
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Do you want me to try calling the theme Maemo.org?	20:12
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: I mean Maemo-org	20:12
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, sure	20:12
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fiferboy	AndrewBlack: And I'll copy over the backgrounds from your old package	20:13
bigbrovar_	am in a bit of a dilema her and would appreciate if anyone can help out. I am having issues connecting to internet due to the fact that most 3rd party internet awared applications on the N900 (mauku, gpodder, etc) dont respect the systemwide proxy settings in my wireless profile. I was trying a walk round the issue, and I try adding export_http to /etc/profile which seems to work, but I was unable to use the browser because it times out till i comment	20:13
bigbrovar_	out the http_proxy in /etc/profile ..	20:13
bigbrovar_	can anyone please enlighting me on how i can tell the browser not to ignore /etc/profile, so i can use 3rd party apps and the web browser at the same time? :(	20:14
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AndrewBlack	fiferboy, k if you know how and want to package it up for extras that will be fine would save me the trouble since I´m at work right now I could go ahead and get it uploaded	20:17
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: No problem. What do you want the display name to be?	20:17
AndrewBlack	I guess maemo.org theme	20:18
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AndrewBlack	GAN900, btw I´m considering going to white entry boxes but right now we are limited on text colors and to make everything work out right I had to go with white text on those boxes. Simular problem with converstations	20:19
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Stskeeps	AndrewBlack: looks good (theme) btw	20:20
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AndrewBlack	That just reminded me fiferboy you need to use the colors css file out of old theme it has to be hand changes since theme maker doesn´t fix it	20:20
Gadgetoid_n900	theme? what when where?	20:20
AndrewBlack	Stskeeps, thanks	20:20
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Got it	20:20
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crashanddie_mbp	lardman: yo	20:21
AndrewBlack	Stskeeps, I´ve come along way from my Windws XP theme	20:21
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lardman	hey crashanddie_mbp	20:22
crashanddie_mbp	what's up?	20:23
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Gadgetoid_n900	hmmm i need to keep workig on my theme	20:24
flux	how are timestamps in general handled in maemo? I'm trying to look at ~user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db (sms messages) and it has events.end_time, which is an integer	20:24
flux	but if I try to handle it as a unix epoch time, I get something very wrong	20:24
MrTratta	does any one know of n900 non-official repositories around ? If you saw this twice sorry my xchat crashed ..	20:24
flux	argh, never mind, my test was flawed :-))	20:25
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jebba	http://www.freemoe.org has a repo, but not much there not in extras-devel (besides kernel)	20:25
MrTratta	thanks jebba, I'll have a look - have you tried something?	20:25
oscillik	anyone know where to get the N-series style loopable wallpaper that is shown in the publicity shots?	20:26
jebba	it's mine	20:26
oscillik	like this:	20:26
oscillik	http://maemo.nokia.com/features/panorama-desktop/	20:26
Jaffa	GAN900: pong	20:26
MrTratta	nice jebba	20:26
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oscillik	been looking all over, but can't seem to find them anywhere	20:27
GAN900	Jaffa, the h-a-m issue is primarily because it wont replace user/* packages with non user/* packages.	20:28
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MrTratta	jebba, quite nice, having a look at your wiki now - I might join :) I've got my scratchbox environment all up and running	20:29
GAN900	Jaffa, the other part is a bug I haven't been able to confirm locally where it wont update said package after it's been replaced using apt.	20:29
MrTratta	for the timebeing I've just played a bit with some python, I code in c++ but never packed anything for debian ..	20:29
Jaffa	GAN900: OK, so if a package was ever in user/*, there's no way to get it out again	20:30
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MrTratta	Does any one know if abook python bindings not available is a known issue ?	20:30
jebba	X-Fade: should i assume this job has been killed or something? there have been at least one other job on the same builder after it was submitted: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/wxwidgets2.6_2.6.3.2.2-5/summary.log	20:30
Jaffa	GAN900: Apart from depends: newpackage and newpackage.postinst does an 'apt-get remove'	20:30
* GAN900 is of the opinion that since these packages are only in -devel the people installing them can work around it.		20:31
GAN900	Jaffa, seeming, although it's not been confirmed very well as far as I can tell.	20:31
GAN900	Somebody could check the code check for the section, maybe. . . .	20:32
X-Fade	jebba: Garage got a reboot around that time to add some more RAM.	20:32
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GAN900	X-Fade, ah, did you source some bigger PoP's for that N900? :P	20:33
Gadgetoid_n900	you need to reboot to add ram? that explains a lot	20:33
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X-Fade	GAN900: Yeah, the 256MB one ;)	20:34
X-Fade	GAN900: Finally available now.	20:34
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RST38h	X-Fade: I have just check the Downloads, no, neither of the packages got in	20:35
X-Fade	jebba: Looks like we will add the new build hardware tomorrow. Should be a lot better.	20:36
X-Fade	RST38h: Any non-free apps got in there before?	20:36
RST38h	X-Fade: Yes	20:37
X-Fade	RST38h: Ok.	20:37
RST38h	X-Fade: MasterGear, SlideRule, ATI85	20:37
RST38h	X-Fade: iNES, VGBA. VGB )since removed)	20:37
RST38h	Also, Vulture's is not non-free, javispedro should have pushed the source code through the autobuilder	20:37
X-Fade	Ah, a lazy bastard ;)	20:38
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Gadgetoid_n900	me wants pandora package system on maemo	20:39
fnordianslip	hey that's cool. i walked up town with my N900, which obviously disconnected from my wlan and switched to cellular network. i've now come home, looked at the terminal on my mac and found that my SSH session to my N900 still works. I've been gone for over an hour ;)	20:39
fnordianslip	obviously the N900 is back on the wlan now	20:39
MrTratta	I had some issue using the terminal from my n900, in particular piping, how do you guys do it ? did you remap the arrow keys ?	20:39
MrTratta	fnordianslip, i get that sometimes when I "freeze" a windows virtual machine connected to my work vpn	20:40
fnordianslip	use the osk, hit Func+Cntrl	20:40
MrTratta	as i resume, it is still connected :)	20:40
fnordianslip	Func is the blue arrow	20:40
Gadgetoid_n900	ssh would only drop if you attempted to send a command through an inactive connection methinks	20:40
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lardman	hey crashanddie_mbp	20:40
lardman	crashanddie_mbp: busy busy at work	20:40
lardman	crashanddie_mbp: you in the antipodes yet?	20:41
fnordianslip	Gadgetoid: your probly right. i guess there is no keep alive running on the tcp connection	20:41
wazd	wee, home again)	20:42
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BabelO	evening	20:46
RST38h	back	20:46
RST38h	X-Fade: Sorry, the computer shut down	20:46
RST38h	X-Fade: Anything changed since I fell off?	20:46
X-Fade	RST38h: no. not yet.	20:46
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GAN900	Get your voodoo troubleshooting @ talk.maemo.org!	20:48
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RST38h	GAN: What again?	20:48
RST38h	GAN: Changing themes to get network connection more stable?	20:49
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GAN900	RST38h, recommended regular reflashing to cure all ills!	20:52
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fiferboy	AndrewBlack: emailed	20:53
Stskeeps	lardman: interesting fact btw, people use supl.google.com instead?	20:53
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lardman	really? works the same does it?	20:54
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Stskeeps	well someone mentione it earlier in this channel	20:54
lardman	does it update Latitude too though? ;)	20:54
RST38h	GAN: <sigh>	20:55
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, thanks	20:56
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fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Do you have an N900 to test on?	20:56
jebba	X-Fade: having troubles scp over new package: "Connection closed by 62.61.85.33"	20:56
AndrewBlack	yep, I got a pre release one	20:56
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timeless_mbp	ooh, crazyparking is in testing?	20:57
X-Fade	RST38h: Reload Downloads...	20:57
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lardman	hmm, anyone know who mikkov is?	20:59
X-Fade	lardman: sure, the games master.	21:00
lardman	X-Fade: can I upload a later version of a package to replace the one in extras-devel, even if I didn't upload the original?	21:00
X-Fade	lardman: Yes, although it is bad form ;)	21:00
lardman	I didn't realise Cauldron went back that far, but looks like he uploaded fort77	21:00
lardman	yeah, ok, will try to contact him first then	21:01
RST38h	X-Fade: loading...(30 seconds and counting)	21:01
lardman	X-Fade: thanks :)	21:01
X-Fade	RST38h: good, goood.	21:01
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RST38h	X-Fade: Really weird, it seems to have pushed all my apps on top, not just the latest ones	21:02
RST38h	Looks like I will have to generate a few screenshots now =)	21:03
X-Fade	RST38h: They all weren't updated for a long time.	21:03
X-Fade	RST38h: Since the removal hack when I was on holiday, something broke ;)	21:03
RST38h	Oh. Shit.	21:03
* RST38h thanks X-Fade		21:03
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gtessier00	General question for you guys !!! What can you do with the console on the N900	21:13
gtessier00	the terminal	21:13
slonopotamus	rm -rf /	21:13
gtessier00	and what is it used for lol	21:13
slonopotamus	ah, removes everything	21:14
Shadikka	gtessier00: If you don't know what you can do with a console, you probably don't need to	21:14
Stskeeps	gtessier00: it's the machine room of a n900. you'll need tools and knowledge how to use it	21:14
gtessier00	I want to learn how to use it! :)	21:14
Shadikka	You can do pretty much anything you can do on a normal Unix terminal, use Google if you're interested.	21:14
gtessier00	I<ll buy a linux book today	21:14
Aranel	gtessier00: pretty much everything you can do on GNU/Linux one.	21:15
gtessier00	i don't even know how to use linux, to be honest	21:16
gtessier00	I use windows 7 but im interested in knowing how to use linux since i ordered the n900 yesterday	21:16
woglinde	gtessier00 you are familiar with windows on commandline?	21:16
GAN900	gtessier00, don't bother with a book, there are many free guides online	21:17
Aranel	gtessier00: I use it mostly for df and dh commands (disk management) , moving&copying with root privileges, xmplayer cli app and package management for instance.	21:17
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, Got a question for you I was use py2deb to build Reflect for Joopu can you build it the proper way with Maemo-Display-Name and all for him?	21:17
gtessier00	really? i thought that linux for dummies was not bad	21:17
gtessier00	but you can't do all this if you don't use terminal? what is the point of copying and moving with root privileges ?	21:18
fnordianslip	gtessier00: wait until vlc is out. have you ever seen movies rendered in ascii characters?	21:18
gtessier00	no :)	21:18
fnordianslip	you have to squint a bit :)	21:18
gtessier00	haha	21:18
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Aranel	gtessier00: you can use all partitions that way. GUI file manager only shows MyDocs folder.	21:18
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gtessier00	oh i see, that way it can be interesting	21:19
gtessier00	The status of my N900 is ''ready to ship'' :D	21:19
gtessier00	priority, i should get it wednesday	21:20
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simula	congrats gtessier00	21:21
gtessier00	can't wait to get it :P	21:21
gtessier00	I currently have an E71 and i am more than satisfied with it, but we can always get better :P	21:21
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RST38h	Screenshots. Lots of screenshots.	21:22
woglinde	hm better saying nothing about the random boots	21:22
gtessier00	???	21:23
RST38h	yeah, and the screens	21:23
RST38h	with all those hot pixels	21:23
RST38h	and the non-working mic	21:23
gtessier00	well as i know it's under warranty	21:23
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Shadikka	Hmm	21:23
woglinde	gtessier00 it might happen that you will not be satisfy with the device	21:23
gtessier00	why	21:24
gtessier00	what's the % of bogus devices	21:24
RST38h	100!	21:24
woglinde	only nokia knows	21:24
gtessier00	100 :P	21:24
gtessier00	funny	21:24
Aranel	anyway, I got my device 1 week ago, and everything just works =)	21:24
Aranel	so its %99.9	21:25
gtessier00	thanks for encouraging me	21:25
Aranel	not %100 :)	21:25
gtessier00	anyway if mine doesn't work well i will use warranty and get another one	21:25
gtessier00	im aware of it	21:25
gtessier00	its still in development period	21:25
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woglinde	jo ph5	21:25
gtessier00	and i think i have more chances of getting a good one, it's a new batch	21:26
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Yup	21:26
UndrWater	hardware bugs?	21:26
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, thanks	21:27
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fiferboy	AndrewBlack: No problem	21:27
Aranel	gtessier00: i hope everything goes ok for you too =)	21:28
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Are you going to theme the images in the mediaplayer folder, even though they are not in theme maker yet?	21:28
AndrewBlack	fiferboy, sooner or later I´m considering custom icons as well	21:28
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: Nice	21:28
UndrWater	Aranel: getting "wow, cool"'s from your friends?	21:29
wazd	i-max avatar, here I come :)	21:29
AndrewBlack	them was designed to be a community project I wanted to get help from other people for things like icons and such and I´m going to release the theme in .svg format for others do to with as they want	21:29
fiferboy	AndrewBlack: I think the "Button.png" from mediaplayer is used in the app manager as well	21:29
bigbrovar_	can anyone enlighten me on why adding export http_proxy to /etc/profile cause microB to timeout everytime i try to use the web. I never have such problem with firefox in gnome :S	21:29
Aranel	UndrWater: no, mostly "omg let me use it, wow, its REALLY Quake??" :)	21:29
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AndrewBlack	fiferboy, yeah I think its used by several things	21:30
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fiferboy	HildonFancyButton, I think	21:30
AndrewBlack	maemo-org 1.0-2 just got done building should be in extras-devel soon	21:30
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pupnik	can voting a thread started down to zero count as -1 thanks plelase	21:31
pupnik	or one	21:31
gadgetoid_bath	teehee	21:32
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RST38h	Uploading screenshots...hmm, seems to work this time	21:36
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* RST38h moos at pupnik		21:45
LuciusMare	um	21:47
LuciusMare	am i right in #maemo ?	21:48
RST38h	depends.	21:48
Stskeeps	~seen johnx	21:49
infobot	johnx <n=john@c-76-121-237-84.hsd1.wa.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 13h 15m 17s ago, saying: ';)'.	21:49
LuciusMare	~seen Stskeeps	21:50
infobot	stskeeps is currently on #maemo (5h 49s). Has said a total of 23 messages. Is idling for 1m 14s, last said: '~seen johnx'.	21:50
gtessier00	i like this channel, helpful people, thanks a lot	21:50
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LuciusMare	~seen Boobs	21:50
infobot	LuciusMare: i haven't seen 'boobs'	21:50
RST38h	he was grinning, the evil one!	21:50
LuciusMare	;)	21:50
woglinde	moo	21:50
RST38h	heya woglinde	21:51
LuciusMare	~seen 'anything'	21:51
infobot	i haven't seen ''anything'', LuciusMare	21:51
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LuciusMare	~seen infobot	21:51
infobot	i haven't seen 'infobot', LuciusMare	21:51
LuciusMare	lol	21:51
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* RST38h just gave mikkov +40 karma =)		21:53
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hrw\|gone	quick question:	21:56
hrw\|gone	where maemo5 stores backups?	21:56
Stskeeps	Backups/ or something	21:57
Stskeeps	on mmc(s)	21:57
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woglinde	hm there was something in maemo 5 developer guide	21:58
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RST38h	hrw: ~user/MyDocs/Backup	21:59
hrw\|gone	gracias RST38h	21:59
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pupnik	what was that dune game you were talking about RST38h ?	22:02
lcuk	woglinde, /home/user/MyDocs/backups/*	22:02
lcuk	hrw\|gone, ^	22:02
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RST38h	Any debian packaging wizards out there?	22:04
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woglinde	lcuk yeah I think I read in the fremantle developer guide	22:04
woglinde	rst just ask	22:04
RST38h	pupnik: Oh, no, I was just discussing a new game wazd would like to develop	22:04
woglinde	use cdbs	22:04
woglinde	that will make your life easier	22:04
RST38h	pupnik: And we had Tremors in mind, not Dune	22:04
RST38h	woglinde: How do I say in control file "my package depends on another package with the same version as mine"?	22:05
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RST38h	I.e. it should probably look like "Depends: libzlibrary (>= ???)"	22:05
RST38h	But what do I put for ???	22:05
Stskeeps	RST38h: if it's in same source package, there's a debhelper thing for it	22:05
Stskeeps	Source-Version or something..	22:05
RST38h	Same source package, yes	22:06
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RST38h	pupnik: My idea is to have you play as the graboid, then the shrieker, then as the ass blaster	22:06
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woglinde	rst hm binaryversion or so	22:07
woglinde	let me see	22:07
RST38h	pupnik: And swallow whatever moves on the ground, including farming equipment	22:07
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pupnik	hmm, deformable terrain	22:07
RST38h	${Source-Version}	22:07
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woglinde	ah yeah	22:07
pupnik	hdmi is kind of an impressive interface, bandwidth and cable-length wise	22:09
woglinde	RST38h he that was easy	22:09
RST38h	woglinde: Can I have multiple maintainers in the control file btw?	22:09
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woglinde	rst dont think so	22:10
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RST38h	aha	22:10
RST38h	BTW, you know that absolutely ugly "equalizer" icon?	22:11
dmj726_n900	Is there a way to tell if a package is optified before installing?	22:11
woglinde	rst either there is one maintainer in control	22:11
RST38h	Looks like it can be replaced ;)	22:11
woglinde	and all others are mentioned in changelog	22:11
* RST38h put himself into changed-By and Uploaders		22:11
woglinde	or the Maintainer is grouml adresse	22:11
jebba	woglinde: hey, was messing with bios and such, brought things back up	22:11
woglinde	like python-foobal-maintainers@debian.org	22:11
woglinde	jebba ah okay	22:12
woglinde	I just wanted to start to get navit in	22:12
jebba	though i've been trying for the last few hours to just FUCKSAFDSDkjñsadfñlsdfasdfsda upload something	22:12
jebba	to the build box	22:13
woglinde	uh	22:13
woglinde	okay I will upload it to my university space	22:13
woglinde	for now	22:13
jebba	woglinde: i mean the SDK box is fine	22:13
jebba	the freemoe one, i'm talking about uploading it to garage.	22:14
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jebba	that's what's hanging	22:14
pupnik	do all wireless PC keyboards suck and miss/repeat keys?	22:14
tcarl\|work	pupnik: If its made by crap, yes.	22:15
RST38h	woglinde: I assume ${Source-version} does not work in .shlibs files?	22:15
tcarl\|work	pupnik: I have zero problems with BT keyboards -- works great.	22:15
woglinde	rst hm?	22:15
woglinde	isnt .shlibs generated automagicly?	22:16
tcarl\|work	pupnik: Try something from Logitech. They usually work quite well.	22:16
woglinde	never messed this	22:16
RST38h	woglinde: I do not see where it is created	22:16
woglinde	hm today I tested qtnx on n900 and didnt work as expected	22:16
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woglinde	nxproxy dies at some time	22:16
pupnik	k thanks - this 'media keyboard' from "Sharkoon" with a trackball in upper right is quite practical, but i have to poke the keys, cant touch type	22:16
pupnik	woglinde: did you fix qtnx icon/launcher?	22:17
woglinde	and the gui dont has my keyboard and proxy support points	22:17
woglinde	pupnik no	22:17
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woglinde	only saw that I have to promote it	22:17
pupnik	k. i have no luck with getting it working now - session idiocy	22:17
pupnik	k	22:17
woglinde	because of missing user section	22:17
jebba	3.21 MB/s to kernel.org like stalls and hangs to garage	22:17
jebba	nothing in the build queue... i wonder why...	22:17
woglinde	hm so now looking in developer guide	22:18
woglinde	for icon	22:18
wazd	RST38h: : jesus christ! Pyramid above Kremlin!	22:19
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wazd	RST38h: where is Jeff Goldblum with viruses'n'stuff :D	22:19
woglinde	pupnik where in the developer guide stands how the .desktop file now have to look?	22:20
pupnik	i just look at existing apps for that stuff	22:20
lcuk	wazd, its a pyramid, obviously its your mummy thats come to take you away	22:21
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MrTratta	is any of the apps qt or all gtk/hildon ? Is it already possible to write apps targeting fremantle with 4.6 ?	22:21
Stskeeps	MrTratta: mixed	22:23
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RST38h	wazd: Ah, the pyramid came again?	22:25
RST38h	wazd: I am sure it is just RenTV shooting another of those crazy pseudo scientific features =0	22:25
wazd	RST38h: : no, it's the same	22:26
wazd	RST38h: : aw, that's lame :D	22:26
woglinde	wahahaha	22:26
wazd	RST38h: : When we'll get the real thing with exploding buildings, Will Smith and stuff :)	22:26
woglinde	why it isnt in the developer guide	22:27
woglinde	hm and I now see I never make a package out of my qtnx patch for ssh-proxy and keyboard choosing	22:27
RST38h	wazd: You want a giant tarantula or what?	22:27
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RST38h	wazd: I mean, the place already looks like a diesel punk version of NYC during nuclear winter, how much more grotesque do you want it to be>	22:28
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Corsac	wazd: ping	22:32
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wazd	Corsac: heya	22:36
Corsac	wazd: http://molly.corsac.net/~corsac/maemo/white/ would that fit you?	22:36
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Corsac	or is it not sharp enough?	22:37
woglinde	ping pupnik	22:37
pupnik	hi	22:37
woglinde	pupnik which category you think qtnx/nx fits?	22:37
woglinde	user/desktop or Location & Navigation Location & Navigation Localización y Navegación Locatie en Navigatie Posicionamento e Navegação Posisjon og Navigasjonen Paikannus ja navigointi Posizione e Navigazione Localisation et Navigation Position og Navigation Posicionamento e Navegação Position och Navigation Localisation et Navigation Localización y Navegación Позиционирование и навиг	22:37
woglinde	user/networkargs	22:38
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pupnik	hehe @ paste	22:38
woglinde	sorry	22:38
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woglinde	user/network or user/desktop	22:38
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pupnik	um wherever vnc is	22:38
woglinde	hm	22:38
woglinde	good idea	22:39
pupnik	Internet and Networking	22:39
woglinde	aeh	22:39
woglinde	so users/nerwork	22:39
woglinde	okay	22:39
wazd	Corsac: : well, you don't need to shoot it in dark	22:39
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Corsac	yeah, sorry, I don't have much light here :)	22:40
wazd	Corsac: : But I think it's fine, thanks	22:40
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pupnik	http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/developers_should_get_karma_based_on_the_relevance_of_their_software/ community folks, don't miss the karma voting brainstorm	22:41
Corsac	yw	22:41
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wazd	Wordpress website has that fucking javascript snow	22:42
wazd	no way	22:43
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jaska	hah, any site that does that loses its js privileges	22:43
GAN900	Woo, operation failed when opening Camera	22:43
fiferboy	GAN900: Opening the camera is clearly not a supported operation	22:44
acidjazz	lol	22:44
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derf	wazd: JavaScript snow has become pretty popular this year.	22:46
RST38h	wazd: does it also play midi music?	22:47
derf	It is really, really annoying.	22:47
thresh	wazd: what do you have against snow?! government officials say they will surely deal with it if it covers all your screen!	22:47
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RST38h	derf: the best js I have seen was a little gray hedgehog with propeller running around the page and randomly making squeaky sounds every few minutes	22:47
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wazd	RST38h: : yeah, and blinking background obviously :D	22:48
* RST38h was so impressed that he wrote his own js with sheep defecating on the <TABLE> elements		22:48
RST38h	=)	22:48
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wazd	RST38h: : jeez, you're a monster :D	22:48
pupnik	Are we helpless vs the web devs or is there some way to gain more control over javascript in the browser.	22:49
lcuk	AndrewBlack, you posted before a big image of a theme, is that actually whats chopped up and used for the theme?	22:49
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AndrewBlack	lcuk, yep thats the template you use to make themes	22:49
fiferboy	10000x800 :)	22:50
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AndrewBlack	lcuk, then theme maker cuts it up for you	22:50
RST38h	pupnik: turn it off and forget	22:50
RST38h	wazd: proof URL: http://emulation.org/	22:50
anpr	hey guys :)	22:50
AndrewBlack	lcuk, if your interested in theme making I have a .svg of the basic template that is better then png version for editing	22:50
anpr	i've heard about java on maemo	22:50
anpr	do u know anything about it ?	22:51
lcuk	RST38h, "squeeky sounds"	22:51
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lcuk	urg if a website started making noises at me automatically	22:51
pupnik	boah, nice domain	22:51
lcuk	o_O lag	22:51
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lcuk	AndrewBlack, im morbidly curious is all	22:52
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AndrewBlack	lcuk, you know you want to do themes, forget about programming its for losers :)	22:52
lcuk	AndrewBlack, ive gotta look @ themes for a different reason	22:53
anpr	guys ?	22:53
lcuk	do you upload these source images to garage along with your debs?	22:53
lcuk	anpr, no	22:53
anpr	i heard that they are developing opera mini browser	22:54
AndrewBlack	lucent, nope theme maker cuts source images apart and makes a source package that has all the small images in it	22:55
anpr	and as i know it requires java	22:55
anpr	something like that =]	22:55
oscillik	yes Opera Mini runs on java	22:55
lcuk	AndrewBlack, so if someone wants to continue working on your theme they cant?	22:55
AndrewBlack	GAN900, you around?	22:55
AndrewBlack	lcuk, yeah they can but they would have to work on each image in png format one at a time or I can release my template	22:56
AndrewBlack	lcuk, I almost always release my template once I´m done with it	22:56
lcuk	your template == source code, store it in garage (different to sending to autobuilder)	22:56
lcuk	ok, so theres some already?	22:56
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lcuk	im interested in the whole thing, from source through compilation to a gtk package	22:57
lcuk	and to relate stuff it should be like for like	22:57
lcuk	power had texture files which put these themes to shame ;)	22:58
lcuk	poser	22:58
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RST38h	GAN: Ok, looks like I may have resolved FBreader dependency thing	23:01
tigert	we need to publish the fremantle theme tools	23:02
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tigert	its underway afaik	23:02
RST38h	yesss	23:02
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woglinde	RST38h moo	23:02
RST38h	preferably ones that do not involve java =)	23:02
tigert	thememaker has the full template now	23:02
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tigert	but the tools and -layout-5 needs to be published	23:03
AndrewBlack	lcuk, Theme in maemo is simple just edit that templete you saw, use Theme Maker to Cut it up, it outputs .deb and source then you can use source to make a source package to upload to garage	23:03
tigert	so the debian toolchain can build themes too	23:03
tigert	thememaker does the same thing in java	23:03
tigert	indeed you just paint over that template	23:03
AndrewBlack	lcuk, I normally put some of my source templates in the garage. Iḿ going to be putting maemo-org on there this week	23:03
RST38h	tigert: Ideally, I would like to have a command line utility that takes template png and creates a deb	23:04
lcuk	cool stuff	23:04
tigert	theres a svg also which is imho nicer for editing	23:04
AndrewBlack	tigert, thats right thememaker is just the dumbed down easy way to do themes	23:04
tigert	RST38h: hildon-theme-tools	23:04
RST38h	already available?	23:04
tigert	RST38h: its just the newest version is not out there	23:04
tigert	ask for it in the list and forums to create pressure :)	23:04
AndrewBlack	RST38h, hildon-theme-tools been around since theme hildon has been around	23:04
RST38h	got it	23:05
tigert	yes, diablo theme tool and template is out there	23:05
tigert	just not maemo5	23:05
Stskeeps	tools,layout are out, just not template	23:05
AndrewBlack	Stskeeps, isn´t it the same template as thememaker?	23:06
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RST38h	tigert: got a question	23:06
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tigert	sure	23:07
RST38h	tigert: do you know of a bunch of three icons that I can use to represent music being played?	23:07
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tigert	Stskeeps: layout-5 isnt afaik	23:07
RST38h	tigert: something tiny, to replace that gaudy equalizer icon	23:07
tigert	layout-4 is for diablo	23:07
tigert	RST38h: a raving guy silhouette would be fun :)	23:08
tigert	but no idea offhand for a pic right now	23:08
lcuk	state of the art	23:08
RST38h	nothing like that in gnome?	23:08
lcuk	https://wiki.collabora.co.uk/N900s/FaveApps	23:08
lcuk	damn	23:08
jebba	http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/fedora/12/x86_64/0xFFFF-0.4.0-0jebba.fc12.x86_64.rpm	23:08
lcuk	good job i dont c&p dodgy stuff	23:09
Stskeeps	tigert: gitorious	23:09
lcuk	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5kuYfTCGLg	23:09
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Stskeeps	tigert: http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop/hildon-theme-layout-5	23:10
tigert	Stskeeps: awesome	23:11
tigert	ok good	23:11
RST38h	FBReader-0.10.7-9 going into autobuilder	23:11
RST38h	tigert: Maybe you can draw something, quickly? =)	23:11
tigert	now i gotta zZZZ	23:11
Stskeeps	nini tigert	23:11
tigert	RST38h: not right now :)	23:11
tigert	nite	23:11
RST38h	tigert: g'night :)	23:11
lcuk	gnite tigert	23:11
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Corsac	hmhm	23:13
Corsac	W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/Release No Hash entry in Release file /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle_Release	23:13
Corsac	is that expected?	23:13
hcarrega	Corsac:	23:13
hcarrega	samewith me	23:14
hcarrega	but not allways	23:14
hcarrega	yesterday	23:14
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hcarrega	extra-devel	23:14
hcarrega	today maemo-extras	23:14
lcuk	how is it possible to have a git commit in the future o_O	23:14
thresh	faketime?	23:15
thresh	and, of course, a time machine. don't you know how to use it?	23:15
lcuk	http://github.com/lcuk/liqbase-playground/commits/master	23:15
zash	lcuk: man at	23:16
lcuk	just got a random update from the end of the year	23:16
Corsac	hcarrega: hmhm maybe It's sync'ing or something	23:16
hcarrega	yes	23:16
lcuk	now 31st december this year IS a bluemoon	23:16
hcarrega	i read in talk.maemo	23:16
hcarrega	Corsac:	23:17
hcarrega	maybe servers are loaded	23:17
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hcarrega	lcuk: i born in 31st	23:19
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RST38h	cooooooooooooooooool	23:22
* RST38h fixed the now-playing icon		23:22
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bigbrovar_	is there anyway i can make fenec default on N900?	23:23
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jebba	Stskeeps: how you doing your autopackaging of mer? (if i understand correctly). Got any scripts to share=	23:24
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johnsq	Hi	23:30
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jebba	hey	23:32
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jebba	200912212221 cool timestamp that just occurred heh	23:38
johnsq	jebba: no big difference to 2008	23:39
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timeless	hey, anyone want to write an app or three for me?	23:41
PolarFox	21121221211221 will be something...	23:41
PolarFox	timeless: Sure... what will you pay?	23:41
timeless	1. search contacts by fields other than name (esp number, company)	23:42
timeless	2. find duplicate contacts	23:42
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timeless	3. compare contacts	23:42
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timeless	polarfox: 20eur for each	23:42
lcuk	timeless, those sound like enhancement requests	23:43
LinuxCode	lol	23:43
LinuxCode	20eur	23:43
RST38h	Hurrah!	23:43
timeless	20eur bonus for integrating the three	23:43
lcuk	20euro per	23:43
RST38h	I replaced that ugly, UGLY now-playing icon!	23:43
lcuk	line	23:43
lcuk	of	23:43
lcuk	code	23:43
LinuxCode	lcuk, that would not be reasonable	23:43
timeless	and probably some other bonuses for accepting further input	23:43
LinuxCode	unless they were multi-line oneliners ;-o	23:43
PolarFox	Accepting input.. thats not cheap	23:43
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PolarFox	That's like 150e+/line of input :D	23:44
lcuk	need bonus per ascii character allowable	23:44
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lcuk	and double for uppercase	23:44
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PolarFox	I understand the two... but compare contacts?	23:45
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lcuk	yeah duplication is a big problem	23:45
timeless	i might have a contact "david smith"	23:45
timeless	and a contact "dave smith"	23:45
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timeless	i need a way to see if they're the same contact	23:45
timeless	which fields overlap	23:45
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timeless	which don't	23:45
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* lcuk has done this before		23:46
timeless	it isn't necessarily a merge	23:46
lcuk	between different databases and within the same	23:46
timeless	because they might be unrelated	23:46
lcuk	just a way to show the similar ones and let you decide is better - once you decide then you get to conflict resolution and field merging	23:47
lcuk	trying it automatically leads to pulling hair and missing data	23:47
timeless	ayup	23:47
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* lcuk remembers the pain of those calcs		23:48
lcuk	soundex helps also for typing glitches	23:49
timeless	i should probably note that i'd prefer modular backend support	23:49
timeless	and modular frontend	23:49
PolarFox	Is there a bounty system for maemo stuff? :)	23:50
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timeless	so your ui could be e.g. Qt, but it should be possible to replace Qt w/ clutter or gtk w/o rewriting the logic	23:50
timeless	and if the current contacts db is replaced by a different one, it should be possible to drop in a replacement backend	23:51
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lcuk	timeless, thats a big optimistic	23:53
lcuk	bit*	23:53
PolarFox	with a ~60-90eur budget.. :P	23:54
jebba	compiling the kernel 2.6.32-omap1: "arch/arm/kernel/unwind.c:34:2: warning: #warning Your compiler is too buggy; it is known to not compile ARM unwind support.	23:55
jebba	"	23:55
woglinde	yeah old csl toolchain	23:55
hrw\|gone	have a nice xmas everyone - i will be back online in 2010	23:56
lcuk	hrw\|gone, have a good time, speak to you next year \o	23:56
mikhas	bye hrw	23:56
Shadikka	Have fun.	23:56
hrw\|gone	thx	23:56
*** hrw\|gone is now known as hrw\|gone-to-2010		23:57
lcuk	o_O hrw got a time machine	23:57
mikhas	yeah, but can he go back in time?	23:57
lcuk	hes gone to the future and is at this moment using maemo8	23:58
*** ch4w has quit IRC		23:58
*** t_s_o has quit IRC		23:58
gadgetoid_n810	nokia will switch to android	23:59
thresh	of course	23:59
PolarFox	And google will take over the world	23:59
gadgetoid_n810	and n810s will be worth more than gold	23:59
PolarFox	Nokia has done such wonders in service front that software development can be thrown away.	23:59

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