| andre__ | timeless_mbp: and I'd be happy if idiots like RMS would just shut the fuck up. unsure whether dropping GNU is helpful for that though... need to read more mail first | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| jebba | i think it's easiest for folks if a good url is given to start with. anyway, done. | 00:00 |
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| luke-jr | andre__: you have that inverted. it's idiots like you that need to shut up ;) | 00:01 |
| andre__ | luke-jr, i beg to differ ;-) | 00:01 |
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| andre__ | luke-jr, I've attended the keynote of RMS at GCDS conference this year. I felt offended by what he said | 00:02 |
| luke-jr | andre__: that's probably your fault | 00:02 |
| andre__ | luke-jr, why? | 00:02 |
| andre__ | because he makes sexist jokes about virgins? | 00:03 |
| luke-jr | wtf is he doing talking anything of the sort at a tech conference? | 00:03 |
| RST38h | andre: is RMS himself a virgin btw? | 00:03 |
| RST38h | also, did he carry that kettle and a plastic bag with teas all the way to the podium? | 00:04 |
| luke-jr | fine, maybe RMS is a nut | 00:04 |
| andre__ | RMS is like Michael Jackson to me. Both have done great stuff in the 80es and early 90es, but in this decade... let's forget about it. | 00:04 |
| luke-jr | but he's not ALWAYS *toally* wrong | 00:04 |
| RST38h | "maybe"? | 00:04 |
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| luke-jr | totally* | 00:05 |
| RST38h | "not always"? | 00:05 |
| andre__ | luke-jr, well, being totally wrong is hard. Sounds like the "but Hitler has build motorways" argumentation to me ;-) | 00:05 |
| luke-jr | lol | 00:05 |
| luke-jr | andre__: well, often when people want RMS to shut up, he's right :p | 00:05 |
| RST38h | "You are not right. Hell, you are not even wrong!" | 00:06 |
| mikhas | I should not have logged in tonight ... bye! | 00:06 |
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| andre__ | luke-jr, then I exclude myself from "people". Because of course *I* am more right! :-D | 00:06 |
| peterq | Does anybody know where to get the vagalume last.fm API key? | 00:06 |
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| luke-jr | andre__: you're more likely to get off excluding yourself from "often" | 00:07 |
| RST38h | ok, sleep. | 00:07 |
| andre__ | hehe | 00:07 |
| RST38h | gentlemen, I am going to blame you both if RMS comes into my dreams tonight | 00:08 |
| andre__ | RST38h, I can give you my postal address to send mailbombs :) | 00:08 |
| ifreq | RST38h: that would be quite worrying dream | 00:08 |
| RST38h | shouldn't have even mentioned the creep this late in the night | 00:08 |
| ifreq | now everyone will have nightmares | 00:08 |
| nomis | I bless your computer, my child. | 00:08 |
| luke-jr | read xkcd first | 00:08 |
| xorAxAx | is there an up-to-date package of modest somewhere? | 00:09 |
| ifreq | dont HURD me i beg before falling to sleep | 00:09 |
| luke-jr | http://xkcd.com/225/ | 00:09 |
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| xorAxAx | andre__: do you know? | 00:10 |
| andre__ | xorAxAx, in gitorious there's the code, non packaged :-) | 00:11 |
| xorAxAx | whats gitorious? | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | ............. | 00:11 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://lotro.ucoz.ru/icon.svg ? | 00:12 |
| phreck | git... | 00:12 |
| RST38h | wazd: But...mmm...what is it? =) | 00:12 |
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| RST38h | oh the eye... | 00:12 |
| wazd | RST38h: :D | 00:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: can you fit a few more pieces of that vulture into the icon? =) | 00:13 |
| wazd | RST38h: I think it's gonna be a bit messy on low resolutions | 00:13 |
| RST38h | true | 00:14 |
| wazd | RST38h: and eye is somehow attracting eye :) | 00:14 |
| RST38h | stylize it somehow? | 00:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | andre__: i understand that rms said something and that it made news | 00:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | but will i be able to find out what he said? | 00:14 |
| wazd | RST38h: mmm | 00:15 |
| timeless_mbp | (and in case people are curious, i'm intentionally avoiding the fruit articles) | 00:16 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: depends on the license on the words. | 00:16 |
| xorAxAx | how is the command called that generates a changelog entry? | 00:16 |
| * RST38h falls asleep. | 00:16 | |
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| xorAxAx | DocScrutinizer51: where did you buy your n900? | 00:17 |
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| xorAxAx | (i mean the debian/changelog file) | 00:18 |
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| andre__ | timeless_mbp, the recent problem, or the problem in July at the conference? | 00:19 |
| timeless_mbp | the conference one | 00:19 |
| xorAxAx | ah, dch! | 00:19 |
| timeless_mbp | that sounds more interesting :) | 00:19 |
| xorAxAx | why does nobody answer me :-P | 00:19 |
| * timeless_mbp is watching "I love trouble" | 00:19 | |
| timeless_mbp | xorAxAx: dch? | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there a way to put vultures claw into a '2d' mode? Ideally with ascii? | 00:19 |
| go1dfish | whats up with RMS? | 00:20 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, I don't think that there is a video of it, so I can only offer 2nd hand articles about it | 00:20 |
| go1dfish | he's a pretty coold dude btw | 00:20 |
| go1dfish | I made him type in vim once ;) | 00:20 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd just like the wording | 00:20 |
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| go1dfish | doh nm, got my acronyms confused, was thinking of ESR | 00:22 |
| go1dfish | I haven't met RMS | 00:22 |
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| andre__ | timeless_mbp, I could offer http://opensourcetogo.blogspot.com/2009/07/good-gcds-beginning-with-significant.html but that is of course biased (and my position too) | 00:22 |
| xorAxAx | timeless_mbp: debchange | 00:22 |
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| timeless_mbp | andre__: thankw | 00:23 |
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| AakashPatel | Does anyone elses huly vids all blinky while playing on the phoen? | 00:23 |
| AakashPatel | hulu* | 00:24 |
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| AakashPatel | i've noticed lately all my flash vids are blinky | 00:25 |
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| yabo | sooo i'v got unzip to work :) | 00:30 |
| yabo | now i'm worried of / being used at 90% | 00:30 |
| AakashPatel | arhghgh | 00:30 |
| yabo | after a couple of days | 00:30 |
| AakashPatel | whats wrong with this thing | 00:31 |
| yabo | it seems that /usr/lib takes 150mb | 00:31 |
| redeeman | they should have made / somewhat bigger | 00:31 |
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| go1dfish | AakashPatel: hulu vids are too highres to play smooth in flash on the device | 00:31 |
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| go1dfish | im hoping the situation will get better with flash 10/hardware accelerated decoding | 00:32 |
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| Macer | omap3 isn't what it's cracked up to be :) | 00:32 |
| go1dfish | but I wouldn't hold my breath, flash sucks on every platform | 00:32 |
| Macer | agreed heh | 00:33 |
| SpeedEvil | The only platform it'd look good on would be a sacrificial altar. | 00:33 |
| yabo | is it possible to change the fs layout ? like having a 1go / ? | 00:33 |
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| Macer | scotty is the only red shirt that survives | 00:33 |
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| AakashPatel | Yeah, just checked on my desktop | 00:33 |
| AakashPatel | it uses 25% of both cores :/ | 00:33 |
| go1dfish | flash is one of those apps that will use just about everything you throw at it whether it needs it or not | 00:34 |
| AakashPatel | Hah | 00:34 |
| SpeedEvil | yabo: one issue is that the / device is 256M - so you can't do that that way | 00:34 |
| SpeedEvil | yabo: and / is moderately faster than the internal SD card | 00:35 |
| yabo | oh | 00:35 |
| yabo | ok | 00:35 |
| yabo | but it should work if I move /usr/lib to the sdcard no ? | 00:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | It probably makes sense to do that for some dirs, yes. | 00:37 |
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| go1dfish | yuizy: no | 00:38 |
| go1dfish | err | 00:38 |
| go1dfish | doh | 00:38 |
| go1dfish | that was meant for yabo | 00:38 |
| go1dfish | microsd wont mount on boot if it isnt fat :( | 00:38 |
| go1dfish | device regens fstab every boot | 00:38 |
| SpeedEvil | that's pretty trivial to fix though | 00:38 |
| SpeedEvil | in principle | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: faster... sure? | 00:38 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: a bit. | 00:39 |
| ifreq | so whats filling the / eventually? | 00:39 |
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| ifreq | ive got 60M still free, less than 90% used | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | basically v/var it seems | 00:39 |
| go1dfish | haven't tried it myself yet, but as soon as it gets figured out and stabilized I want to reallocate some of my fat32 space towards a real filesystem | 00:39 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer IIRC ~15M/s from internal nand, ~13 from internal SD, ~10 from external SD | 00:39 |
| ifreq | DocScrutinizer51: ah thats suckage | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ifreq: yep | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | if /home is mounted early, we could move /usr and /var just lie /opt | 00:41 |
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| ruskie | go1dfish, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35122&page=6 | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: strange. why's external sd slower than iMMC? | 00:41 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, the built-in onenand is faster (for small files) than the built-in emmc | 00:43 |
| yabo | ouch | 00:43 |
| yabo | a big cp freezes the phone :s | 00:43 |
| ruskie | yabo, temporarily | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: It is a 1G microSD I got a couple of years ago as it was cheap | 00:44 |
| * ruskie is quite happy with his repartitioned setup | 00:44 | |
| yabo | curious about the io scheduler they chose | 00:44 |
| ShadowJK | mmc type things run an emulation/translation layer that makes them look like block devices. Also, mmc command overhead is kinda large, which makes requesting small transfers relatively expensive | 00:44 |
| ShadowJK | the onenand is more "raw" access and ubi/ubifs does a much better job at turning the flash into a fast filesystem | 00:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: btw last boot actually freed some 20meg on / | 00:44 |
| ShadowJK | mmc/sd type things are really built for and optimized for huge files, like digital cameras and mp3 players | 00:45 |
| go1dfish | ruskie: thanks I was just looking at that | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: yeahh - that's rather broken. | 00:45 |
| go1dfish | if I split my microsd into two partitions, it will still expose the first to usb? | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | obviously some files not closed yet | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I looked - and couldn't find any of significance | 00:45 |
| ruskie | go1dfish, of course you still have the prob that stuff in extras will get optified | 00:45 |
| go1dfish | I think I want to go with a 6 gig fat32 partition on microsd, for an ubuntu x86 usb image and various windows utils | 00:46 |
| ruskie | which is why I'd like to run my own autobuilder and repo so I can avoid the optification :) | 00:46 |
| go1dfish | and use the rest of the microsd as ext3 for chroot | 00:46 |
| go1dfish | I'd like to try that before digging too deep into repartioning the built in storage | 00:46 |
| ruskie | I don't use an sd at all :) | 00:46 |
| go1dfish | ah ok | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: stale filehandles (file moved/deleted. handle keeps zombie alive)? | 00:46 |
| * SpeedEvil just uses one for backup. | 00:46 | |
| ruskie | other thene used it for backup when I was doing the repartition work | 00:47 |
| go1dfish | ruskie: couldn't you give all the space to /usr | 00:47 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I did find /proc - looking for deleted files in /proc/*/fd | 00:47 |
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| go1dfish | and move/link /opt to /usr/opt | 00:47 |
| ruskie | go1dfish, what's the point in that | 00:47 |
| go1dfish | by all the space I mean combined usr/opt | 00:47 |
| ruskie | I like the FHS layout ;) | 00:47 |
| ruskie | and will try to avoid doing such hacks | 00:47 |
| go1dfish | heh ok | 00:48 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders where to find the real find | 00:48 | |
| go1dfish | I guess I don't see that as too bad since it already ships with /home/opt/ linked to /opt heh | 00:48 |
| ruskie | I wish there were gnu utils on it as well | 00:48 |
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| ruskie | go1dfish, well an idea I had when all this optification decission stuff was going on was just use LVM and have hooks in apt/dpkg to resize as needed | 00:49 |
| yabo | quite annoying... | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ado I recall correctly: /usr/(s)bin is for all the foo that's not mandatory for first bootphase? | 00:49 |
| go1dfish | heh lvm would be sweet | 00:49 |
| go1dfish | but would probably cause havok with the usb mass storage stuff | 00:49 |
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| ruskie | I hate it that it catters to win users so much | 00:50 |
| go1dfish | my opinion is that I would like to still have some usb mass storage capability (as fat) but not necessary on the internal storage | 00:50 |
| arachnist | i so... only 10 minutes left till my birthday ends | 00:50 |
| ruskie | the default usb export is mmcblk0p1 | 00:50 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 00:50 | |
| ruskie | happy bday arachnist | 00:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | go1dfish: so erm | 00:50 |
| arachnist | ruskie: thanks :) | 00:50 |
| go1dfish | it also exports the sd, not sure if its the whole device or a single partition though | 00:51 |
| SpeedEvil | arachnist: Happy birthday! | 00:51 |
| timeless_mbp | resizing file systems is mostly a waste of time | 00:51 |
| arachnist | SpeedEvil: thanks :) | 00:51 |
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| * SpeedEvil passes arachnist a cake with a fizzing candle-shaped object on it. | 00:51 | |
| ruskie | there should have been a better default layout | 00:51 |
| * SpeedEvil closes the box marked dynamite. | 00:51 | |
| timeless_mbp | but note that the microsd card will be exported over usb if it's fat | 00:51 |
| ruskie | a 5gb usr is more than enough for everything | 00:51 |
| timeless_mbp | (actually, it'll probably be exported anyway) | 00:51 |
| arachnist | SpeedEvil: hehehe | 00:52 |
| lcuk2 | SpeedEvil, c4 is better, you can make good looking clay models out of them | 00:52 |
| timeless_mbp | ruskie: kinda hard to partition a 256mb solid state device into X + 5gb | 00:52 |
| ruskie | timeless_mbp, combined with the emmc | 00:52 |
| timeless_mbp | are you willing to pay 600EUR extra for the privilege? | 00:52 |
| microlith | :/ I must say the mail client is driving me crazy | 00:52 |
| microlith | it keeps downloading spam from gmail | 00:52 |
| ifreq | microlith: how come? | 00:52 |
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| ruskie | modest annoys me in other ways | 00:52 |
| microlith | I suppose I should set it up to use pop3 instead of imap | 00:52 |
| timeless_mbp | ruskie: that makes safe flashable upgrades essentially impossible | 00:52 |
| ruskie | timeless_mbp, why? | 00:53 |
| timeless_mbp | ruskie: flashing works on volumes | 00:53 |
| timeless_mbp | it knows about the 256mb volume and the 32gb volume | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: do you remember old unix days? On diamond disk drive there was /, /bin /sbin /root(!) and /etc and /boot. all the other crap went to large cheap disks which might fail occasionally | 00:53 |
| ruskie | and is this device meant to be flash upgraded or OTA upgraded? | 00:53 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 00:53 |
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| go1dfish | ruskie: both | 00:53 |
| saltsa_ | anyone here developing openvpn for maemo? Looks like there is quite serious security hole... | 00:54 |
| ruskie | yeah both I know... but what's the primary update mechanism | 00:54 |
| ruskie | I'd say OTA | 00:54 |
| timeless_mbp | saltsa_: in software that isn't shipped? | 00:54 |
| saltsa_ | timeless_mbp, well, it's in extras-testing | 00:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | ruskie: the primary recovery mechanism after bricking the device | 00:54 |
| timeless_mbp | is reflash the system | 00:54 |
| ruskie | timeless_mbp, after bricking I would expect to reflash both volumes | 00:54 |
| lcuk2 | o_O yikes! | 00:55 |
| timeless_mbp | ruskie: so you lose all your user data? | 00:55 |
| javispedro | ... losing all your data. | 00:55 |
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| timeless_mbp | great idea | 00:55 |
| lcuk2 | and lose all my data | 00:55 |
| timeless_mbp | you're not a user | 00:55 |
| Jaffa | Hmm. D-Bus won't start in Scratchbox. I've seen this error before but can't remember the fix (and can't find it via Google either) | 00:55 |
| timeless_mbp | and you're fired | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: not quite | 00:55 |
| ruskie | lol | 00:55 |
| timeless_mbp | thanks for playing | 00:55 |
| ruskie | all my data is always backed up | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: though for a couple of laptops, I have had a couple of meg in-ram chrooted tools - just in case | 00:55 |
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| lcuk2 | ruskie, thats as maybe, but its still a PITA to copy it back on | 00:56 |
| lcuk2 | i do the same in windows, small partition for system, large data partition | 00:56 |
| timeless_mbp | ruskie: again, you don't sound like a normal user | 00:56 |
| lcuk2 | i can upgrade replace OS at will | 00:56 |
| lcuk2 | without mucking with data | 00:56 |
| timeless_mbp | i haven't me a single normal human with a current backup | 00:56 |
| javispedro | I backup all my data to the N900 =) | 00:56 |
| timeless_mbp | including myself, and i lost an n900 not too long ago | 00:56 |
| lcuk2 | hah javispedro | 00:56 |
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| lcuk2 | which one :p | 00:57 |
| ruskie | timeless_mbp, you've seen a user have backups? | 00:57 |
| ruskie | I thought only my mom did those regulary | 00:57 |
| yabo | so :( | 00:57 |
| timeless_mbp | ruskie: old out of date backups, created the first time they use a device | 00:57 |
| timeless_mbp | and never updated | 00:57 |
| lcuk2 | first time they encounter backup tool, they run it | 00:57 |
| lcuk2 | it does nothing interesting | 00:57 |
| lcuk2 | so forget its there | 00:57 |
| ruskie | it should actually ask to setup when to run it on first run | 00:58 |
| lcuk2 | on a schedule you mean | 00:58 |
| ruskie | yup | 00:58 |
| lcuk2 | that i actually agree with | 00:58 |
| yabo | is copying /usr/share to /opt and linking it back risky ? | 00:58 |
| ruskie | timeless_mbp, and I never was a normal user in the first place... not even when I got the first PC | 00:58 |
| javispedro | and it does backup to the emmc? | 00:58 |
| lcuk2 | in times past there was a countdown between last run backup | 00:58 |
| lcuk2 | and warnings appeared if you missed it | 00:59 |
| lcuk2 | my times past | 00:59 |
| lcuk2 | not on the device | 00:59 |
| ruskie | it should try backing up to the SD then to MMC and make a note to store to SD asap | 00:59 |
| timeless_mbp | ruskie: please don't try to redesign a product targetted at end users | 00:59 |
| timeless_mbp | s/targetted/targeted/ | 00:59 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: ruskie: please don't try to redesign a product targeted at end users | 00:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | timeless: huh? that sounds odd. Maybe I got you wrong | 01:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | ? | 01:02 |
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| mas | is open-xchange with mobile(plugin) compatible with the N900 | 01:05 |
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| shellevil | Odd | 01:06 |
| rdorsch | I followed http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node15.html#SECTION001523120000000000000 to install gdb on diablo | 01:06 |
| shellevil | My mis-set hostname - 16 nulls - was breaking pidgin | 01:07 |
| rdorsch | and got Konnte http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz nicht holen 404 Not Found [IP: 62.156.238.59 80] | 01:07 |
| rdorsch | does anybody know where I can find gdb for diablo? | 01:07 |
| ruskie | timeless_mbp, I just consider that end users for the n900 should actually be more knowledgable than the average smartphone/regular cell phone user | 01:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | you're kidding | 01:07 |
| ruskie | no | 01:08 |
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| ruskie | I actually expect users to learn how to use a device properly | 01:08 |
| * timeless_mbp rotfl | 01:08 | |
| ruskie | not just in a "what does this button" do style of context | 01:08 |
| javispedro | the "tap on a button to edit setting" hint in the welcome wizard seems to disagree | 01:08 |
| ruskie | timeless_mbp, I'm spoiled... most of my users actually know how to reinstall their own systems and actually use them without needing handholding | 01:09 |
| * lcuk2 giggles | 01:09 | |
| lcuk2 | what a rarity to have that | 01:09 |
| go1dfish | ruskie: I agree on the n900, I wouldn't say the n900 is yet targetted at end users | 01:10 |
| ruskie | I guess | 01:10 |
| go1dfish | but much more targetted at power users/geeks right now | 01:10 |
| ruskie | I work at an IT shop so it makes sense | 01:10 |
| ruskie | though we do have one genious that claims that Intel and AMD CPUs are incompatible | 01:10 |
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| yabo | is it normal that /opt isn't mounted via fstab file ? | 01:10 |
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| ruskie | at an instruction level that is | 01:10 |
| ruskie | yabo, nothing is mounted via fstab | 01:10 |
| go1dfish | you *do* have to know a little about how things work under the hood to get a good experience out of the device still I think | 01:10 |
| * lcuk2 used to deal with old ladies who couldnt differentiate a computer from a tv | 01:11 | |
| ruskie | the fstab is generated after everything is mounted | 01:11 |
| ruskie | iirc | 01:11 |
| ruskie | or mostly after | 01:11 |
| ruskie | and opt is a symlink | 01:11 |
| ruskie | not a mount | 01:11 |
| yabo | ruskie hmm everything is declared there though | 01:11 |
| yabo | hoh ok | 01:11 |
| ruskie | even though a mount -o bind would probably work just as well | 01:11 |
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| ruskie | yabo, it's generated after it's mounted(I think for everythi ngeb the SD card) | 01:12 |
| yabo | do have an idea for my questioin abou;/usr/share ? | 01:12 |
| timeless_mbp | yabo: given that /opt is a symlink | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so who is actually mounting then? | 01:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | it's not surprising it wouldn't be a mountpoint.. | 01:12 |
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| ruskie | DocScrutinizer51, event and init scripts | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yay | 01:12 |
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| ruskie | rcS-late generates the fstab | 01:12 |
| ruskie | it might also mount MyDocs | 01:13 |
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| ruskie | or home | 01:13 |
| ruskie | not sure | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | event == upstart then? | 01:13 |
| ruskie | I think home is | 01:13 |
| ruskie | all the vfat stuff seems to be handled by something else again | 01:13 |
| redeeman | hmm i don't understand this, when i setup my smtp server on a connection specific smtp server in the mail app, it won't work, if i don't use connection specific, it does | 01:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | found /etc/events.d "d /etc/default :-D | 01:14 |
| ruskie | redeeman, do you setup auth for both? | 01:14 |
| redeeman | yes | 01:14 |
| yabo | is it possible to make MyDocs ext3 ? | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | stuff for hours to ponder | 01:14 |
| ruskie | odd | 01:14 |
| ruskie | yabo, camera stops working | 01:15 |
| timeless_mbp | yabo: if you don't mind breaking usb mass storage | 01:15 |
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| ruskie | and possible some other stuff as well | 01:15 |
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| redeeman | timeless_mbp: why would mass storage be breaking? | 01:15 |
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| yabo | argh :s | 01:15 |
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| ruskie | usb mass storage should still work from what I know | 01:15 |
| ruskie | it'll just export it as ext3 | 01:15 |
| timeless_mbp | ruskie: on a windows computer? | 01:15 |
| redeeman | gadget storage works fine in linux for ext3 | 01:15 |
| ruskie | works on a block device level iirc | 01:15 |
| redeeman | well.. who cares about that | 01:15 |
| timeless_mbp | on your *average* windows computer? | 01:15 |
| redeeman | ruskie: exactly, it will work fine | 01:15 |
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| yabo | it's weird to have so much good ideas in this phone and such issues at the same time | 01:16 |
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| javispedro | what issue? | 01:16 |
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| javispedro | I see a feature.. | 01:16 |
| yabo | i don't want vfat :) | 01:16 |
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| redeeman | yabo: i don't know if stuff will complain if you switch to ext3, but i do know that mass storage will work | 01:17 |
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| ruskie | camera app doesn't like ext* | 01:17 |
| Jaffa | ruskie: It doesn't? | 01:17 |
| ruskie | it won't save anything | 01:17 |
| ruskie | and I think other apps have similar issues for some reason | 01:18 |
| javispedro | and is that related to ext3, or just dcim folder not existing? | 01:18 |
| ruskie | which is imho a bug | 01:18 |
| javispedro | or a case sensitivity issue? | 01:18 |
| ruskie | javispedro, seems to be ext related | 01:18 |
| redeeman | that's insane | 01:18 |
| ruskie | hmm | 01:18 |
| ali1234 | DCIM doesn't exist until you take a photo does it? | 01:18 |
| javispedro | it existed on my device from day one | 01:18 |
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| redeeman | i think its probably a case sensitivity issue, otherwise they'd have to fuck up seriously hard | 01:18 |
| ruskie | some stuff is pre-generated | 01:19 |
| ali1234 | strace it | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | how can ext* failt on a task vfat accomplishes? | 01:19 |
| ali1234 | strace -e trace=file camera-app (whatever it is called) | 01:19 |
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| ali1234 | then you'll know the answer :) | 01:19 |
| javispedro | does ext* support case UNpreserving | 01:19 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer51, because vfat is more stupider | 01:19 |
| javispedro | ;) | 01:19 |
| redeeman | DocScrutinizer51: case sensitivity could be it | 01:19 |
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| ruskie | no clue | 01:19 |
| redeeman | the problem is if the camera app tries to access directories with different casing | 01:20 |
| javispedro | you could probably use some case mangling fuse filesystem | 01:20 |
| redeeman | though symlinks MIGHT solve that | 01:20 |
| ali1234 | it could also be bad permissions | 01:20 |
| javispedro | to test if this happens | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | And my wrecked hostline had screwed modest too | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | vcreate lowerccase. expect uppercase? OUCH! | 01:20 |
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| ruskie | ali1234, I had rwx at the time | 01:20 |
| ali1234 | ruskie: well umask could still be wrong | 01:20 |
| ruskie | ali1234, for all | 01:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | What was yall's /etc/hostline? | 01:20 |
| ali1234 | but like i said, strace it, the answer will become clear | 01:20 |
| ruskie | I kept a 2gb vfat partition for MyDocs for now | 01:21 |
| johnx | I think the photo storage I'd still want on vfat actually, so that windows machines could see it as a digicam | 01:21 |
| javispedro | which is a good idea | 01:21 |
| ruskie | still hoping the file manager will sometime open up and allow full access | 01:21 |
| ali1234 | ruskie: you could create a loopback image on MyDocs and mount then. then you can grow and shrink it too | 01:21 |
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| yabo | Ok I just grabbed a computer | 01:22 |
| ruskie | ali1234, yeah I've seen that idea | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~nuke filemanager | 01:22 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at filemanager ... B☢☢M! | 01:22 | |
| ruskie | was actually thinking about it | 01:22 |
| yabo | a bit painful from the N900 :) | 01:22 |
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| wazd_n800 | I read that someone was making UI concepts for FM Radio app in Barcelona | 01:22 |
| wazd_n800 | Any chance to see em? | 01:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hm first we need a fm app that,s not borking the mic | 01:23 |
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| ruskie | it borks the mic? | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yoh | 01:23 |
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| Jaffa | ruskie: Nokia never will (nor, particularly should they) ship a file manager which allows access outside of /home/user/(MyDocs) or /media/mmc* | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thats what ive been told | 01:24 |
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| yabo | ruskie, would it work if I left like MyDoc a vfat 2Go partition and have a MyExtDocs an ext3 partition ? | 01:24 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer51: Well, it leaves the mixer in a state such that the mic is disabled until after a reboot. | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thats bork | 01:24 |
| ruskie | yabo, yup I have a MyDocs 2gb and the rest is split between /home /usr /opt | 01:24 |
| redeeman | ruskie: about the smtp problem, im CERTAIN i have the correct information set, it says it cannot connect to the smtp server, which is the connect host | 01:24 |
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| yabo | ruskie, great, is there some doc on how to manipulate the FS ? | 01:25 |
| ifreq | redeeman: sure you can connect to multiple hosts from your current ISP? | 01:25 |
| johnx | redeeman, try connecting with telnet on the device? | 01:25 |
| yabo | if /etc/fstab is autogenerated | 01:25 |
| ruskie | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=424914 <-- yabo a thread about it... read it fully | 01:25 |
| yabo | great, thanks | 01:25 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer51: meh, there's a difference between "bork" and "bork"; and with so many newbies coming into the channel it's worth being precise. | 01:25 |
| ruskie | 3 methods are described there now | 01:25 |
| ruskie | one of the mimen | 01:25 |
| redeeman | johnx: well, it works if i don't use connection specific smtp servers, so obviously its not an issue reaching it | 01:25 |
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| redeeman | and theres no limits on amount of connections whatsoever | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Jaffa: ok.Precisely it,s no option to reboot on inbound call when listening FM | 01:27 |
| johnx | redeeman, huh? so that SMTP server is the only one you have setup? | 01:27 |
| timeless_mbp | redeeman: having filed a fairly basic bug about connection specific | 01:27 |
| redeeman | johnx: i setup the same smtp server in connection specific for the connection, and in the setup for the email account, if i check on "use connection specific smtp server", it fails, if i uncheck it, it works | 01:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not sure how well it was tested (if at all) | 01:27 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'm inclined to suspect the latter | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Jaffa: so prior to new gui I'd like to see this mixer issue fixed | 01:28 |
| * ruskie wonders what would be easier on the n900... flac or ogg | 01:28 | |
| * javispedro sighs at mention of libicd-network-wlan bug about autoconnecting to 802.1x networks and git clones libicd-network-wpa sources again.... | 01:28 | |
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| javispedro | it just was too good to be true :) | 01:28 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 01:28 | |
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| timeless_mbp | users suck | 01:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | ruskie: since there's an ogg package in the repo | 01:29 |
| javispedro | which I think also provides flac... | 01:29 |
| ruskie | which iirc also provides flac support | 01:29 |
| ruskie | I meant power wise... flac has a lot of continous access | 01:29 |
| ruskie | ogg has more decoding(I think) | 01:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: tested. works great with flac | 01:30 |
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| ChubChub | hey guys, does anyone have vgba 3.6.7-1? | 01:30 |
| derf | ruskie: http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/ | 01:31 |
| go1dfish | regarding the FM app borking the mic, you do mean software only right | 01:31 |
| go1dfish | i.e. reboot will fix correct? | 01:31 |
| * Arkenoi wants global "fullscreen" button. mapped to ctrl-enter, for example, is that possible? many programs simply cannot switch fullscreen if there is no button mapped, p.e. rss reader | 01:32 | |
| go1dfish | not some sort of hardware damage, because I know mic issues were one of the most widely reported hardware issues with the n900 on maemo.org | 01:32 |
| timeless_mbp | go1dfish: rebooting doesn't fix dumb users | 01:32 |
| ruskie | derf, hmm so ogg is the better choice in this case | 01:32 |
| derf | By a little under 10%, yes. | 01:32 |
| derf | Not a huge difference. | 01:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | kulve_: testing on prerelease software has to be a violation of your agreement | 01:33 |
| go1dfish | timeless_mbp: I've never used the fm app, I do have it installed, just wondering if I need to avoid running it | 01:33 |
| timeless_mbp | even ms isn't stupid enough to allow people to report numbers based on prerelease software | 01:33 |
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| ChubChub | anyonek now where i can find VGBA 3.6.7-1? | 01:36 |
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| yabo | hmmm, copying /usr/share to /opt and make /usr/share a symlink makes the phone unbootable :) | 01:39 |
| ifreq | ChubChub: sure 3.6.7-1 is out? | 01:39 |
| xorAxAx | how are widgets registered in the system? | 01:39 |
| ruskie | yabo, probably not mounted early enough | 01:39 |
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| ChubChub | It was available in the extra-devels before the whole nintendo incident happened | 01:39 |
| xorAxAx | i.e. how does hildon know that there is a new widget installed? | 01:39 |
| yabo | so I guess I'll have to try the flashing of the phone earlier than expected :) | 01:39 |
| ifreq | i see 3.6.4-x is on the official site of maker | 01:40 |
| ifreq | ChubChub: dunno is there newer than that | 01:40 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 grumbles "speaker protection daemon... pfff" | 01:40 | |
| javispedro | isnt't that pulseaudio? | 01:40 |
| ruskie | yabo, I got my phone on the 3rd this month... I've flashed it atleast 12 times or so by monday the 6th | 01:40 |
| * javispedro hasn't flashed yet and has been toying with upstart | 01:40 | |
| ChubChub | http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:x6zKEwtY4IIJ:maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_non-free_armel/vgba/3.6.7-1+vgba+3.6.7-1&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&client=firefox-a | 01:41 |
| ChubChub | not anymore :( | 01:41 |
| go1dfish | anyone managed to get pulseaudio working over tcp at all? | 01:41 |
| yabo | Quite funnily the phone reboots again and again and the power button has no effect ^^ | 01:41 |
| go1dfish | on the n900 of course | 01:41 |
| yabo | ruskie, haha :) | 01:41 |
| ifreq | ChubChub: http://fms.komkon.org/VGBA/ | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | go1dfish: omg. why would you want to do *this*? o.O | 01:42 |
| javispedro | redirect sound | 01:42 |
| go1dfish | DocScrutinizer51: to stream audio to my n900 from my desktop | 01:42 |
| go1dfish | or vice versa | 01:43 |
| javispedro | ? ;) | 01:43 |
| go1dfish | or more immediately, as a way to get sound from apps in my debian chroot | 01:43 |
| ChubChub | ifreq if you goto his forums he talks of 3.6.7-1 and that the link on his page is quite outdated | 01:43 |
| javispedro | though you mean RTP or pulse native proto? | 01:43 |
| ChubChub | but I contacted him via maemo and he couldn't upload the newest one since it had been taken down | 01:43 |
| go1dfish | pulseaudio native over tcp yeah | 01:43 |
| javispedro | i think it's best to use SSH port redirection and manually fwd the cookies | 01:44 |
| javispedro | i kinda remember a program doing that.... | 01:44 |
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| javispedro | can't find it, maybe it was part of NX | 01:45 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 ponders usefulness and awe created by soundservers | 01:45 | |
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| javispedro | bah, you clearly don't know what you're saying =) | 01:45 |
| go1dfish | javispedro: manually forward the cookies? over ssh? | 01:46 |
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| go1dfish | I dont want to put the audio over ssh because there is enough cpu overhead as it is | 01:46 |
| henningms | Hi! Hopefully getting my N900 sometime this week. Just wanted to ask you guys what your impressions are? :D | 01:46 |
| go1dfish | and ssh would only work if I could get a tcp connection in the first place on the n900 | 01:46 |
| go1dfish | can't even connect on 127.0.0.1 to pulseaudio | 01:46 |
| javispedro | ah | 01:46 |
| javispedro | so you need to enter pacmd and load the tcp native module? | 01:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ayayayyy | 01:47 |
| yabo | buh Nokia Updater doesn't find the phone | 01:48 |
| javispedro | disable-shm = yes... wha??' | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | some said 'as there's enough overhead now' | 01:48 |
| javispedro | I just hope they know what they're doing | 01:48 |
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| javispedro | hey, the default pulse has quite a lot of modules loaded | 01:49 |
| javispedro | we could potentially do the per-application mixer app | 01:49 |
| javispedro | s/do/port | 01:49 |
| go1dfish | javispedro: pacmd says no daemon running? | 01:49 |
| javispedro | where are you running it? | 01:50 |
| go1dfish | on the n900 | 01:50 |
| go1dfish | in xterm | 01:50 |
| go1dfish | tried as user and with sudo | 01:50 |
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| javispedro | I guess that needs another unloaded module.. | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: per-app-mixer?? whatsthat? | 01:50 |
| go1dfish | DocScrutinizer51: you can set volume for individual apps as they are running | 01:50 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: something flashy that wastes cpu cycles but manages to impress users | 01:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | aaah so like ageold alsa softvol? :-P | 01:51 |
| javispedro | with more flashyness, icons | 01:51 |
| go1dfish | its one of the cool things pulseaudio enables that everyone forgets when they bitch about it breaking everything else :) | 01:51 |
| javispedro | etc. | 01:51 |
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| ChubChub | goldfish: quick question, you're trying to stream audio but you can't due to connection problems? can you install programs themselves from the app. manager? | 01:51 |
| go1dfish | I have no trouble installing programs | 01:52 |
| javispedro | and, tbh, the ability to do that on the fly which is something alsa lacked | 01:52 |
| yabo | ruskie, the nokia updater keeps saying that the phone is connected in "incompatible mode" | 01:52 |
| yabo | any idea ? | 01:52 |
| ChubChub | ahh ok, thought it might be related to somthing else | 01:52 |
| javispedro | yabo: use linux flasher | 01:52 |
| go1dfish | im trying to do some low level stuff, if your more of a casualish user you should ignore me :) im not trying to stream radio im trying to stream arbitrary audio from my other linux boxes | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jabhuh? please elaborate | 01:52 |
| peterq | can someone tell me which compiler was used to compile the preinstalled kernel for the n900? | 01:52 |
| microlith | mmm, spontaneous reboots | 01:53 |
| yabo | javispedro, argh, will have to reboot :) | 01:53 |
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| go1dfish | I may have already well trashed my device, but havent had to reflash yet | 01:53 |
| go1dfish | my Firmware version does say (null) though heh | 01:53 |
| go1dfish | I don't even know what I did to make it do that, haven't done anything incredibly exotic | 01:53 |
| go1dfish | .. yet | 01:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: what's that on-theffly mixing alsa allegedly can't do? | 01:54 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: redirecting an app that has already opened a card to another card without the app requiring support | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | k | 01:55 |
| go1dfish | DocScrutinizer51: to another system even | 01:55 |
| go1dfish | i..e I could redirect the output of amarok to my n900 | 01:55 |
| go1dfish | if it supported pulseaudio-native-tcp | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that's actually big advantage and big disadvantage of PA | 01:55 |
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| go1dfish | it's a disadvantage for realtime audio certainly | 01:55 |
| go1dfish | that's what JACK is for ;) | 01:55 |
| javispedro | PA doesn't really has disadvantages if you don't have a hw mixing card | 01:56 |
| javispedro | s/has/have | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | usually the app *wants* to know exactly about ptoperties of audodev | 01:56 |
| javispedro | (especially _older_ versions of it) | 01:56 |
| * xorAxAx built a stopwatch for the desktop! | 01:56 | |
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| xorAxAx | (based on eggtimer) | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: according to my experience it has. | 01:57 |
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| javispedro | nice anecdote. next! | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: it has to clock the audio by itself and sync/resample all the time | 01:57 |
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| yabo | sooo, on linux now | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: as app is 'disconnectedM from aiudiodev | 01:58 |
| javispedro | are you comparing it to dmix or to bare hw? o | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | both | 01:58 |
| javispedro | note I said "non hw mixing card" because I wanted to compare it to dmix. | 01:58 |
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| javispedro | app is as disconnected from the audiodev as with dmix and plug | 01:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm. I'm not enough into the details to explain. But I learnt there are diffs in practice as well as in basic operation concepts | 02:00 |
| javispedro | there are no theoretical reasons for that. | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | on OM we had to kick PA and go back to dmix. PA was a hog | 02:01 |
| javispedro | both are userspace daemons. | 02:01 |
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| javispedro | though I can't rebate that PA is a hog -- it is. | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes. but AIUi alsa the whole plugin stack is clocked by audio timer hw. on PA you can,t do for obvious reasons | 02:02 |
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| javispedro | Not so obvious. As I said, both are user space daemons. | 02:03 |
| javispedro | well, not really "daemons", but user space. | 02:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | where,s your clock going when you switch devices? | 02:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | even use audio hw on a different machine? | 02:04 |
| javispedro | you can redirect audio to multiple cards in alsa too -- only you have to build the configuration in a static way | 02:04 |
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| javispedro | (in fact, alsa has a network transparency plugin too iirc) | 02:05 |
| go1dfish | yeah PA is a hog | 02:05 |
| go1dfish | its just worse that if your going to have so much of a hog... that the interesting features enabled by it arent present/enabled | 02:06 |
| yabo | hmm, there isn't the european version of the N900 on the download page | 02:06 |
| javispedro | use the global one. | 02:06 |
| yabo | ok | 02:06 |
| go1dfish | if your going to use 5-10% cpu on the sound daemon might as well let me do something useful with it :) | 02:06 |
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| yabo | what's the diffrence with the "vanilla" version ? | 02:06 |
| javispedro | read the brief description again | 02:07 |
| yabo | hmmm | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Actually I see very little use coming from the great PA power. switch devices? hell why? | 02:08 |
| go1dfish | network transparency is IMO the killer app for PA | 02:09 |
| * javispedro is a user of hardware mixing for a reason | 02:09 | |
| go1dfish | so yeah without it, it's useless | 02:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | C'on network audio... on a MDA!? | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kiddin? | 02:10 |
| javispedro | well on the n900 they use it for on-the-fly switching | 02:10 |
| go1dfish | no, I can already run X11 apps with network transparency | 02:10 |
| javispedro | afaik | 02:10 |
| go1dfish | why not audio as well :) | 02:10 |
| javispedro | and the some weird policy stuff that's closed. | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: switching WHAT? | 02:11 |
| javispedro | speakers<->3.5mm headphones<->bt headphones<->phone | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | we got 3 or 4 audio sinks. mixer can vol-ctrl each one separately | 02:12 |
| javispedro | not with the bt one | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you say you can output to multiple sinks with alsa | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so where is the big switching? | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | this is *not* a stage mixer | 02:13 |
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| javispedro | also, I don't think speakers and 3.5mm are on different cards =) | 02:13 |
| javispedro | (from an ALSA PoV) | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so waht? | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | even better then | 02:14 |
| javispedro | that still leaves bt, and the policy stuff. | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | one sink less | 02:14 |
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| javispedro | ohmy, the n900 comes with the nfs modules | 02:17 |
| microlith | ok, tapping on the screen does not -take- pictures :> | 02:18 |
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| go1dfish | javispedro: I couldn't get nfs client working on my loaner | 02:23 |
| go1dfish | haven't tried with my release unit though | 02:23 |
| javispedro | probably you need nfs-utils and portmapper | 02:23 |
| javispedro | s/probably/sure | 02:24 |
| go1dfish | yeah, I didn't put that much effort into it | 02:24 |
| go1dfish | I installed everything nfs related I could find in the repos | 02:24 |
| go1dfish | I think all that was was nfs-common though | 02:24 |
| javispedro | portmap is needed | 02:24 |
| javispedro | though nfs-common should depend on portmap :S | 02:25 |
| javispedro | well in that case I'm going to forget about it for now | 02:25 |
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| yabo | javispedro, I fail at the step : "N900: Remove USB and plug it back. Hold U to get to boot screen with usb logo in top right, letgo." | 02:30 |
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| yabo | I don't get anything while pressing U | 02:30 |
| javispedro | the N900 has to be completely turned off before pluggin the usb cable | 02:31 |
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| saltsa_ | what's the reason the deb-packages downloaded from maemo.org doesn't contain any signatures? | 02:31 |
| yabo | It doesn't boot anymore so it's completly off | 02:31 |
| yabo | I removed the battery | 02:31 |
| saltsa_ | there exists dpkg-sig software but it isn't used for some reason | 02:31 |
| javispedro | hold U before plugging the USB cable | 02:31 |
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| javispedro | on the N810 just having the flasher "waiting for a device", N810 connected to USB, then turning N810 on was enough. | 02:32 |
| yabo | do I have to boot the device while holding U ? | 02:32 |
| javispedro | yep | 02:32 |
| javispedro | the usb logo will appear on upper right corner | 02:33 |
| javispedro | along with the nokia logo | 02:33 |
| kleanchap | How can I run maemo applications on Fedora? | 02:33 |
| derf | So... how do I promote a package in extras-devel to replace an existing package in extras-testing? | 02:33 |
| derf | Because I don't have a "promote" button anymore. | 02:33 |
| javispedro | heh | 02:33 |
| yabo | javispedro, I don't know what I did exactly but the flashing seems have started :) | 02:34 |
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| yabo | Sooo, up and running again | 02:36 |
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| * yabo notes for self that messing up with the filesystem is a bad idea | 02:36 | |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer51: You assume the two issues are mutually exclusive | 02:48 |
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| Jaffa | Oh, that's pretty ironic: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=415216&postcount=26 - insightful thoughts on the temperaments of artists, two days before he posts http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2009-December/003523.html | 02:54 |
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| dmj7261 | anybody try to forward their pulseaudio to their computer. | 03:27 |
| Jaffa | Not yet. Thought about doing it the other way, though | 03:28 |
| dmj7261 | Yeah, I think it would be useful in both directions. | 03:29 |
| dmj7261 | it would be a pretty killer feature. | 03:30 |
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| go1dfish | haven't gotten either t owork | 03:32 |
| dmj7261 | yeah, I saw your thread | 03:32 |
| go1dfish | Im just trying to get it to work from chroot->maemo at a minimum heh | 03:32 |
| go1dfish | routing audio to/from my computer would be bonus, I have that going on in my office anyway | 03:32 |
| go1dfish | have 2 machines routing audio to a single box with speakers | 03:32 |
| dmj7261 | I would think it would be nice to be able to use it as a portable sound server. | 03:33 |
| go1dfish | yeah, will kill your battery though | 03:33 |
| dmj7261 | Route audio from my computer to my sound system in the other room. | 03:33 |
| go1dfish | constant data transfer is the worst power drain ive seen on the device | 03:34 |
| go1dfish | particularly over 3g | 03:34 |
| dmj7261 | eh, just plug it in. | 03:34 |
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| Arkenoi | 46-9 is out? | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there an easy way to just load a html into fbreader? | 03:41 |
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| go1dfish | Arkenoi: link? | 03:42 |
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| Arkenoi | http://maemos.ru/2009/11/29/portretnyj-rezhim-nokia-n900-v-novoj-proshivke/ just a rumor. video seems to be demonstrating famous "portrait mode bug" and irrelevant | 03:44 |
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| Jaffa | Arkenoi: No, 46-9 is not out. | 03:54 |
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| Jaffa | Arkenoi: That's not showing proper system-wide portrait either (the launcher and the panoramic desktops are truncated) | 03:55 |
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| microlith | wow | 04:26 |
| microlith | pulse is a pig | 04:26 |
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| dmj7261 | microlith: high cpu? | 04:53 |
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| microlith | dmj7261: yeah, around 18-20% when music is playing | 05:01 |
| ShadowJK | try with headphones | 05:02 |
| ShadowJK | seriously, try it | 05:03 |
| * microlith tries | 05:03 | |
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| microlith | ~half | 05:04 |
| microlith | mafw-dbus-wrapper is using more (11-14%) | 05:05 |
| microlith | is pulse running a loudness filter when set to speakers? | 05:05 |
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| nezb | oh, hello again | 05:10 |
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| asidjazz | sup fellas | 05:14 |
| nezb | nm | 05:14 |
| go1dfish | microlith: thats what I've heard yes | 05:15 |
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| Lanta | Lo, can I install smbfs on my N900? or a better way of accessing my samba share for music/video ?# | 05:17 |
| Lanta | Maybe add the debian armel repo? grab that and nano? what debian distro is it most closest to? etch? | 05:18 |
| asidjazz | i would recommend a more common protocol vs another fs/service on your phone sucking battery life | 05:18 |
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| ShadowJK | nano is in sdk tools repo anyway | 05:19 |
| Lanta | more common than SMB/CIFS? lol | 05:19 |
| Lanta | that which is used by practically every OS | 05:19 |
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| ShadowJK | if umounted when not using it, it'd probably not suck any extra battery at all.. and on wlan it'd probably not use that much sitting idle | 05:20 |
| go1dfish | I think he meant since the device is already runing a UPNP media server | 05:20 |
| Lanta | ShadowJK - is smbfs in the sdk repo - and what is the deb line for it? | 05:20 |
| go1dfish | if your usage would fit in with that ,you could get better battery life | 05:20 |
| go1dfish | than running a separate extra service | 05:21 |
| ShadowJK | not as far as I know | 05:21 |
| ShadowJK | you'd probably have to find the kernel sources and compile your own cifs.ko ? | 05:21 |
| Lanta | woah woah woah, I don't want to run a filesharing sytem on the n900 ... just connect to a share | 05:21 |
| ShadowJK | it does that whole upnp dance apparently. can play stuff from that | 05:22 |
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| Lanta | upnp dance? | 05:22 |
| go1dfish | it will act as a UPNP client to? | 05:22 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 05:22 |
| ShadowJK | atleast I've seen people say it "connected" to "wmp" "fine" | 05:22 |
| go1dfish | cool so it will play stuff from xbox's ps3's and other media centers supporting upnp is the 'upnp dance' | 05:22 |
| ShadowJK | whatever that means | 05:22 |
| Lanta | well sod that I just wanna mount a samba share | 05:23 |
| go1dfish | I havent seen any samba tools for it yet Lanta | 05:23 |
| go1dfish | for either end, server or client | 05:23 |
| Lanta | maemo as a whole or n900 ? | 05:23 |
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| go1dfish | n900, I think the older IT's did have samba solutions, but not certain I've never owned one myself before the n900 | 05:24 |
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| Lanta | you know I'm amazed at how few packages exist in the repo's | 05:24 |
| go1dfish | I don't think it's technically infeasable, just not yet done | 05:24 |
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| go1dfish | it's a very fresh device still | 05:24 |
| Lanta | I was expecting most of debian armel to be in there | 05:24 |
| ShadowJK | Maemo uses gvfs, but cifs/smb support was removed from the upstream gvfs, and thus maemo5 with hte new gvfs doesn't have builtin capability to access cifs/smb shares | 05:24 |
| Lanta | with some overrides from a maemo repo | 05:25 |
| go1dfish | unfortunately, due to the way the filesystem is laid out, you can't get very far installing unmodified debian armel packages | 05:25 |
| go1dfish | Lanta: I recommend a chroot ;) to get all the debian goodness you crave, that's what I've been doing | 05:25 |
| Lanta | or another distro perhaps, one less nokia-ified | 05:25 |
| ShadowJK | Mer runs ontop of ubuntu repos I think :) | 05:26 |
| go1dfish | yeah you could run any distro you like in a chroot of course, debian is the easiest though, given that they already have armel builds | 05:26 |
| ShadowJK | There's alot of stuff in the SDK repos, but they're not meant for use on device and you can break things pretty easily :) | 05:26 |
| Lanta | can debian / mer be installed directly on the n900 now? i.e. replace maemo entirely? | 05:26 |
| nezb | Mer is Ubuntu 9.04 for arm | 05:26 |
| ShadowJK | Lanta, there's no telephone stuff in mer afaik | 05:27 |
| ShadowJK | you'd probably want dualboot | 05:27 |
| Lanta | when I look at the repo's I get that bad feeling I had when I had a Sharp Zaurus - LOCK DOWN! | 05:27 |
| nezb | Mer is very unstable at the moment | 05:28 |
| go1dfish | Lanta: the n900 is pretty open compared to the z's I've owned | 05:28 |
| go1dfish | the wifi driver is fully open source for instance | 05:28 |
| go1dfish | the video driver is not :( and the cell radio driver isn't, but that will likely never happen | 05:29 |
| Lanta | needs more packages, much more | 05:29 |
| Lanta | and I haven't seen this SDK repo, any ideas? | 05:29 |
| ShadowJK | http://repository.maemo.org | 05:29 |
| Lanta | i went to repositories.maemo.org but most arn't for fremantle | 05:29 |
| go1dfish | Lanta: if you set up the sdk | 05:30 |
| go1dfish | you should be able to compile most linux apps from source, and package as debs | 05:30 |
| Lanta | yah but they arn't for maemo 5 | 05:30 |
| ShadowJK | eh just replace diablo with fremantle | 05:30 |
| go1dfish | they will run, its an X11 server | 05:31 |
| ShadowJK | But like I said, they're not meant to be used on the device, and haven't been tested to | 05:31 |
| go1dfish | but yeah, you would need to do extra work if you want to make the UI fit better | 05:31 |
| Lanta | deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle sdk/free sdk/non-free tools/free tools/non-free | 05:31 |
| go1dfish | the n800/n810 didn't have the weird filesystem limitations and /opt setup did it? | 05:31 |
| ShadowJK | for example, apt-get dist-upgrade will most likely make it unbootable ;) | 05:32 |
| go1dfish | if not, installing debs for diablo is going t ofill your / quickly | 05:32 |
| asidjazz | what was the n800 cpu | 05:32 |
| ShadowJK | go1dfish, um, it had the same limitations, and it did not have the /opt solution | 05:32 |
| ShadowJK | asidjazz, omap2 | 05:32 |
| go1dfish | ah ok | 05:32 |
| ShadowJK | In a way it was even more limited, because /home was on the same small device as / | 05:33 |
| asidjazz | ShadowJK: was that faster than the n900 cpu | 05:33 |
| nezb | N800 and N810 had TI OMAP 2420 | 05:33 |
| ShadowJK | no | 05:33 |
| go1dfish | so / was only 256mb on the n800? | 05:33 |
| nezb | N800 has / partition of 256MB | 05:33 |
| asidjazz | n900 has the iphone cpu right? | 05:33 |
| nezb | read: http://wiki.maemo.org/Comparison_of_tablet_models | 05:33 |
| ShadowJK | / is same size on n8x0 and n9x0 | 05:33 |
| go1dfish | asidjazz: same as 3gs yes | 05:33 |
| ShadowJK | asidjazz, no | 05:33 |
| nezb | N900 has the same CPU as iphone 3GS | 05:33 |
| go1dfish | same gpu as well | 05:33 |
| ShadowJK | Same as 3gs, but not same as the previous | 05:34 |
| nezb | TI OMAP 3430 / ARM Cortex | 05:34 |
| ShadowJK | and not same gpu, different model | 05:34 |
| asidjazz | why did nokia pick such an older cpu | 05:34 |
| nezb | they didn't | 05:34 |
| ShadowJK | asidjazz, older cpu? it's the newest one that's available in volume.. | 05:34 |
| Lanta | Can I put the USB port into host mode on the N900!? :D | 05:34 |
| ShadowJK | Lanta, people say no | 05:34 |
| go1dfish | how does the gpu compare then ShadowJK? | 05:34 |
| nezb | Lanta nobody knows how to yet. | 05:34 |
| Lanta | :( | 05:34 |
| ShadowJK | go1dfish, don't know | 05:34 |
| nezb | really only N800 had host mode... | 05:35 |
| go1dfish | for some reason I thought it was pretty nearly the same gpu chip | 05:35 |
| ShadowJK | N810 too | 05:35 |
| nezb | well N8x0 | 05:35 |
| Lanta | wish I could take this N900 back | 05:35 |
| nezb | the N800 and N810 were very similar hardware | 05:35 |
| ShadowJK | and 700 with power injection | 05:35 |
| asidjazz | ShadowJK: cell phone companys make cpus available in volume :) | 05:35 |
| ShadowJK | asidjazz, no I mean omap4 doesn't exist yet except maybe as samples and in labs | 05:36 |
| go1dfish | getting the 900 doing host usb will at minimum require the power injection hack like the 700 from what I've read | 05:36 |
| go1dfish | but I don't know of anyone getting it successfully working in any capacity on the n900 | 05:36 |
| asidjazz | is there any comparison chart/article on maemo vs android | 05:36 |
| go1dfish | asidjazz: not that I know of, but from a platform perspective, the main difference is... | 05:36 |
| go1dfish | android has a linux kernel, and it's own userspace stack | 05:37 |
| GAN900 | 770 | 05:37 |
| ShadowJK | heh | 05:37 |
| GAN900 | "700" isn't a thing. | 05:37 |
| asidjazz | go1dfish: while maemo... | 05:37 |
| go1dfish | maemo has a linux kernel, a userspace stack very similar to a linux desktop, and some maemo specific userspace on top of that | 05:37 |
| go1dfish | maemo feels much more like a linux box than android | 05:37 |
| GAN900 | go1dfish, cause it is. :) | 05:38 |
| redeeman | can anyone tell me how the easydebian chroot stuff is different than a debootstrapped debian armel? | 05:38 |
| go1dfish | GAN900: exactly :) | 05:38 |
| asidjazz | go1dfish: i dont think you specified any differences there | 05:38 |
| ShadowJK | asedeno_work, he did | 05:38 |
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| ShadowJK | uh | 05:38 |
| go1dfish | asidjazz: what kind of user are you? | 05:38 |
| go1dfish | the differences will depend on your viewpoint | 05:38 |
| asidjazz | what do you mean | 05:38 |
| asidjazz | oh | 05:38 |
| go1dfish | what do you plan on using the device for | 05:38 |
| asidjazz | just mean generally as an os | 05:38 |
| asidjazz | for a developer | 05:38 |
| asidjazz | to write apps | 05:38 |
| Lanta | ShadowJK so basicallyk what you've to me is... if I want something as simple as nano I have to compile it from the SDK? I can't use the one from debian armel? | 05:39 |
| go1dfish | well I'd say as a developer, what I said is a clear difference | 05:39 |
| go1dfish | on maemo, you can develop much like you would for a linux desktop | 05:39 |
| go1dfish | gtk, qt (moreso moving forward) etc... | 05:39 |
| ShadowJK | For a developer, android is like this java that's not like any java anyone has used before | 05:39 |
| GAN900 | Lanta, depends entirely on the package. | 05:39 |
| ShadowJK | For a developer, maemo is like this slightly modified Linux desktop environment | 05:39 |
| GAN900 | Lanta, the base libs don't always match up versionwise. | 05:40 |
| ShadowJK | Lanta, the one from sdk tools repo works fine for me | 05:40 |
| GAN900 | Lanta, you can also compile on the device. | 05:40 |
| go1dfish | with android, you have to learn much more android specific stuff | 05:40 |
| go1dfish | there is still some maemo specific api's and extensions of course, to enable things like accelerometer access, and other maemo specific things, but depending on your app you may not have to touch them at all | 05:41 |
| go1dfish | I think this is part of the reason there is a lack of apps on the platform right now, one there is no store, so there is no financial motiviation, which was pretty pivitol in getting all the apps on the iphone, and android | 05:41 |
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| go1dfish | also, those same devs, who are only motivated financially, are likely peeved that they have to learn something new they aren't used to (linux development) | 05:42 |
| ShadowJK | ...about taking debian or ubuntu packages and trying to install them on maemo... Attempting to install packages from other distributions is generally a bad idea, whether it's maemo and debian, debian and ubuntu, fedora and suse or whatever :) | 05:42 |
| asidjazz | go1dfish: in due time | 05:42 |
| go1dfish | asidjazz: certainly, but there are people already bitching about the lack of apps, people who don't "get it" mind you ;) | 05:43 |
| asidjazz | go1dfish: this isnt even really out yet | 05:43 |
| Macer | ugh | 05:43 |
| asidjazz | the only ppl bitching are hte ppl who went out of their way to find and get an n900 | 05:43 |
| go1dfish | exactly, which is why I find such complaints so humorous :) | 05:43 |
| Macer | android just does NOT have a good jabber client :) | 05:43 |
| Macer | anybody here using jabber on the n900? | 05:44 |
| Macer | i'm guessing it uses a new version of telepathy? | 05:44 |
| * microlith loads Ruby on his N900 | 05:44 | |
| ShadowJK | also, people are like "why is there no skype app", "why is there no voip app", when it's all built-in.. | 05:44 |
| go1dfish | Macer: google talk yeah | 05:44 |
| microlith | sadly, the hildon bindings I have won't build :( | 05:44 |
| Macer | go1dfish: you are using gtalk as a jabber server right? | 05:44 |
| asidjazz | lol | 05:44 |
| go1dfish | not sure if thats different from your perspective, but it's jabber underneath | 05:44 |
| asidjazz | taht is pretty awesome ShadowJK | 05:44 |
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| go1dfish | Macer: the n900 provides gtalk as a separate account type, so it handled all that for me :) | 05:44 |
| asidjazz | ShadowJK: i love how thats such a big f-you to AT&T and T-MO | 05:45 |
| Macer | go1dfish: i see. i think gtalk works just slightly differently although it is a jabber server | 05:45 |
| go1dfish | microlith: why sully the device with such a crap interpreter ;) | 05:45 |
| Macer | i need an actual jabber client.. but the n810 supported jabber servers so i am sure that the n900 would work fairly well | 05:45 |
| asidjazz | i want php-gtk | 05:45 |
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| go1dfish | Macer: yeah jabber was listed as an account type to IIRC, without having to install extra plugins | 05:45 |
| GAN900 | Macer, GTalk works out of the box. | 05:45 |
| go1dfish | now AIM, MSN, and Yahoo support.... | 05:45 |
| go1dfish | that's missing | 05:45 |
| Macer | GAN900: i am sure | 05:46 |
| GAN900 | Just like on Maemp 4 | 05:46 |
| ShadowJK | asidjazz, well, all the E-series s60 phones from nokia have voip too.. so only skype is new when comparing to s60 (and on s60 you could install fring for skype, but it didn't integrate with the UI).. and maemo4 of course had both skype and voip | 05:46 |
| GAN900 | telepathy-extras in Extras-devel. | 05:46 |
| Macer | go1dfish: i used to just set up jabber proxies | 05:46 |
| asidjazz | ShadowJK: no but when they come ot the US its ripped out | 05:46 |
| Macer | GAN900: but how is the actual jabber support? | 05:46 |
| Macer | not the gtalk but if you were to run your own jabberd? | 05:46 |
| * go1dfish is still waiting for google voice integration :D | 05:46 | |
| GAN900 | Macer, fine. | 05:46 |
| Macer | GAN900: awesome. | 05:46 |
| GAN900 | It's Telepathy. | 05:46 |
| Macer | going to have to get an n900 then :) | 05:46 |
| Macer | GAN900: ah ok. | 05:46 |
| ShadowJK | asidjazz, I thought only the operators ripped it out and that you could still get the real thing from nokia? | 05:47 |
| Macer | does the n900's telepathy have the irc addons ? :) | 05:47 |
| ShadowJK | msn and irc addons are in extras-* something | 05:47 |
| go1dfish | Macer: they are in extras-dev or testing not sure which | 05:47 |
| Macer | awesome | 05:47 |
| ShadowJK | msn eats battery, irc is crippled | 05:47 |
| asidjazz | ShadowJK: thats exactly what i mean | 05:47 |
| Macer | time to buy an n900 | 05:47 |
| asidjazz | ShadowJK: but "people" dont know that | 05:47 |
| go1dfish | anyone else having trouble with aim connections? | 05:47 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: heh. irc only needs to join channels ;) | 05:47 |
| asidjazz | ShadowJK: so the average phone user cant harness it | 05:47 |
| ShadowJK | Macer, it doesn't. | 05:47 |
| GAN900 | Macer, XChat. | 05:47 |
| Macer | it doesn't? | 05:48 |
| Macer | haha | 05:48 |
| nezb | mmm google voice | 05:48 |
| GAN900 | go1dfish, yes. | 05:48 |
| Macer | does skype run on the n900? | 05:48 |
| ShadowJK | asidjazz, the problem begins when the average user buys phones from operators ;) | 05:48 |
| Macer | without the lame call forwarding crap that most phones do? | 05:48 |
| go1dfish | Macer: skype is built in | 05:48 |
| asidjazz | ShadowJK: you're not getting my point | 05:48 |
| Macer | go1dfish: does it call forward or does it use the data connection? | 05:48 |
| GAN900 | Doesn't handle automatic connection changes gracefully. | 05:48 |
| go1dfish | it uses the data connection afaik | 05:48 |
| asidjazz | ShadowJK: my point is the fact that the operator does that means most everyone wont know it even existed | 05:48 |
| Macer | wow. that's awesome | 05:48 |
| go1dfish | I havent done any skyping besides signing on, but I've heard people rave about it | 05:48 |
| go1dfish | things like answering a skype call without realizing it was skype and such | 05:49 |
| Macer | go1dfish: i use skype all the time | 05:49 |
| GAN900 | Macer, the answers are all the same as the last time you asked these questions. : | 05:49 |
| GAN900 | j | 05:49 |
| GAN900 | j | 05:49 |
| go1dfish | I don't know if video chat is there yet? | 05:49 |
| Macer | GAN900: haha | 05:49 |
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| Macer | last time i asked the phone wasn't out yet ;) | 05:49 |
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| asidjazz | there isnt even support for the front camera yet go1dfish | 05:49 |
| nezb | video chat on skype? | 05:49 |
| GAN900 | Macer, yes it was. :) | 05:49 |
| Macer | only to nokia ass kissers :) | 05:49 |
| go1dfish | asidjazz: there is some support | 05:49 |
| GAN900 | Macer, and it's been in the hands of testers since September. | 05:49 |
| go1dfish | the mirror app heh | 05:49 |
| go1dfish | looks like complete ass though | 05:49 |
| asidjazz | such ass | 05:50 |
| asidjazz | i hope thats software | 05:50 |
| ShadowJK | asidjazz, I don't think nokia was saying f-u to anyone, they're mostly not paying attention to NA, they like to ignore it and treat it as an aberration in the global market.. | 05:50 |
| asidjazz | pretty sure it is | 05:50 |
| nezb | what does ass look like | 05:50 |
| GAN900 | Macer, no, it had shipped the last time you asked. | 05:50 |
| go1dfish | unless you have *awesome* lighting, and even then has some problems | 05:50 |
| Macer | GAN900: does google video chatting work? | 05:50 |
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| asidjazz | ShadowJK: k now you're getting my point :) | 05:50 |
| GAN900 | and kindly fuck off as to the "ass kissing" | 05:50 |
| Macer | GAN900: hahahha | 05:50 |
| asidjazz | nezb: cant even make out what it is | 05:50 |
| GAN900 | No video chat (yet) | 05:50 |
| nezb | asidjazz: I know I have it. In this case ass looks like pixel static. | 05:50 |
| Macer | doh | 05:51 |
| Macer | i supports h264 now though right? | 05:51 |
| nezb | yeah | 05:51 |
| go1dfish | heh, pixel static and a weird vertical bar | 05:51 |
| Macer | it was such a let down that the n810 didn't | 05:51 |
| go1dfish | Macer: hardware h264 at that :D | 05:51 |
| go1dfish | unfortunately that is another binary blob driver though | 05:51 |
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| go1dfish | but is at least exposed through gstreamer | 05:51 |
| Macer | n810 had a lot more potential if the cam worked properly for actual video chatting on something other than gizmo | 05:51 |
| nezb | most of the problems people are having are software related that will be solved through the power of open-source...the N900 hardware is very good | 05:51 |
| Macer | was kind of a shame that nokia totally wrote it off | 05:52 |
| go1dfish | heh, I used to work in the same building as gizmo | 05:52 |
| nezb | go1dfish - were they cool people? | 05:52 |
| nezb | google owns gizmo now... | 05:52 |
| go1dfish | didn't really know too many people at gizmo that well | 05:52 |
| go1dfish | but got to play with video chats on the 800/810 etc.. plenty heh | 05:53 |
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| go1dfish | we did some IT development where I was working there to MP3tunes | 05:53 |
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| asidjazz | get to work on php-gtk ppl plskthx | 05:55 |
| go1dfish | so I've been around these things for a while, many before they were officially released :) knew about rover/n900 for quite some time, made the wait that much more painful | 05:55 |
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| nezb | eww. PHP is a horrible language :P | 05:55 |
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| bizzle | I got php-gtk to compile in the maemo sdk last night | 05:55 |
| go1dfish | nezb: agreed, i can't decide which is worse, php or ruby | 05:55 |
| go1dfish | php is a crap language | 05:55 |
| go1dfish | and ruby has a crap interpreter | 05:56 |
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| nezb | ruby is not a bad language | 05:56 |
| nezb | just it is slow as frozen shit | 05:56 |
| asidjazz | whast wrong w/ php | 05:56 |
| go1dfish | yeah language wise I have nothing against it | 05:56 |
| nezb | php is a bad language that people have optimized the hell out of | 05:56 |
| go1dfish | just the all the implementations of it | 05:56 |
| asidjazz | php 5+ is alot better | 05:56 |
| bizzle | got an error though when trying to run it with the php-gtk extension: "_X11TransSocketINETConnect() can't get address for localhost:6002: Name or service not known" | 05:56 |
| nezb | python is a good language, too bad it is not widespread | 05:56 |
| go1dfish | nezb: I'm a fan of python to, it's good because it hasn't been widespread yet | 05:57 |
| nezb | how does that make it good? | 05:57 |
| go1dfish | same with django, I'm thankful ROR took the hype/heat | 05:57 |
| asidjazz | the docs are sweet and easy http://gtk.php.net/manual/en/gtk.gtkcalendar.php | 05:57 |
| go1dfish | it lets you be more flexible | 05:57 |
| asidjazz | why would that make it good go1dfish | 05:57 |
| asidjazz | cuz you know some language most ppl dont? | 05:57 |
| asidjazz | :) | 05:57 |
| go1dfish | PHP would have likely been redesigned to suck less if there werent so many people using it that would bitch about backwards compatibility | 05:57 |
| nezb | python 3.0 is how you make a good transition | 05:58 |
| go1dfish | asidjazz: nah, python is not espescially difficult heh | 05:58 |
| nezb | 2.5-2.6-3.0 was very smooth | 05:58 |
| asidjazz | i never said it was | 05:58 |
| go1dfish | I haven't dabbled in 3.0 yet | 05:58 |
| asidjazz | are there any sample python maemo apps out there yte | 05:58 |
| nezb | probably | 05:58 |
| bizzle | yep | 05:58 |
| go1dfish | asidjazz: yeah im just saying that since it's so easy, it's hard to feel good knowing it because others don't :D | 05:58 |
| asidjazz | url | 05:58 |
| bizzle | http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo | 05:58 |
| bizzle | http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/UITutorial to be more exact | 05:59 |
| go1dfish | that said, I am exceedingly efficient with it, been doing mostly python dev for the past 5-6 years now | 05:59 |
| go1dfish | its bad though, hard to find python work/jobs | 05:59 |
| nezb | have you done anything in google app engine go1dfish? | 05:59 |
| go1dfish | but good in that way to in a way | 05:59 |
| nezb | I am working on a python app that uses it | 05:59 |
| go1dfish | nezb: nah, I am running a django site on aws though :) | 06:00 |
| asidjazz | looks sweet | 06:00 |
| nezb | app engine is very similar to django | 06:00 |
| go1dfish | http://tunetrack.net/ works on the n900 as well ;) | 06:00 |
| go1dfish | yeah it's based on django iirc | 06:00 |
| nezb | nice i will check it out | 06:00 |
| nezb | yes | 06:00 |
| go1dfish | I ported a little pyqt4 app I wrote to maemo last week | 06:00 |
| go1dfish | well almost I have to add one more dialog and then I'll post it | 06:00 |
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| Macer | hm | 06:01 |
| nezb | what was that app that let you do python on the N8x0 with an integrated IDE? | 06:01 |
| Macer | does the earth need the moon? | 06:01 |
| go1dfish | nezb: pygtkeditor? | 06:01 |
| nezb | no.. | 06:01 |
| nezb | it was designed for Maemo4 | 06:01 |
| go1dfish | dont know, pygtkeditor is available on the n900 and sounds similar | 06:02 |
| nezb | ugh I can't find it | 06:02 |
| go1dfish | don't know if I'd really call it an ide though, but it will let you execute the file you have open, which is convenient | 06:02 |
| go1dfish | I don't generally use IDE's though | 06:02 |
| nezb | this was a program that you ran on your computer and had a python "mini-ide" | 06:02 |
| nezb | then there was a server you ran on the N8x0 | 06:02 |
| go1dfish | screen+vim is my DE | 06:02 |
| nezb | and when you did things on the computer they would execute on the device | 06:02 |
| go1dfish | oh yeah, thats quite different, sounds cool | 06:02 |
| nezb | hardware but you see them on the host | 06:02 |
| asidjazz | so how do python maemo packages work | 06:03 |
| asidjazz | is it straight up the source of the app in the package | 06:03 |
| go1dfish | I haven't messed with python maemo, or packaging | 06:03 |
| go1dfish | the app I did was qt | 06:03 |
| nezb | PyQt? | 06:03 |
| go1dfish | I probably won't bother touching gtk on the device | 06:03 |
| go1dfish | originally PyQt4 yeah | 06:03 |
| asidjazz | whats the best vim colorscheme for python :) | 06:03 |
| go1dfish | but switched it over to PySide for the n900 | 06:03 |
| nezb | gtk is deprecated on n900 | 06:03 |
| nezb | i like zenburn for vim | 06:03 |
| go1dfish | nezb: yeah, qt isn't quite there yet though | 06:03 |
| nezb | http://slinky.imukuppi.org/zenburn/ | 06:04 |
| go1dfish | well it's there, but not perfect | 06:04 |
| nezb | will be soon :) | 06:04 |
| go1dfish | yep, I'm looking forward to a more qt4 oriented maemo :) | 06:04 |
| go1dfish | qt4 is an amazing library | 06:04 |
| nezb | samr | 06:04 |
| nezb | same* | 06:04 |
| nezb | I FOUND IT!! PluThon | 06:05 |
| nezb | http://pluthon.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/ | 06:05 |
| nezb | "PluThon is an Eclipse Ganymede-based product that provides support for developing Python applications for maemo. PluThon does NOT require Scratchbox. Developers run and debug applications directly on a maemo device, speeding up the development time." | 06:05 |
| nezb | requires Eclipse which is very heavy though.... | 06:05 |
| go1dfish | ah | 06:05 |
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| nezb | ie. the reason I never really used it :P | 06:05 |
| go1dfish | I did my porting directly on the device heh :) | 06:06 |
| go1dfish | some of it editing with the built in keyboard | 06:06 |
| go1dfish | and some vim over ssh | 06:06 |
| asidjazz | pluthon eh | 06:06 |
| nezb | idk. their screenshots look really sexy. | 06:06 |
| go1dfish | I even managed to get a quick little qt4 webkit demo working in python on my loaner | 06:06 |
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| go1dfish | but haven't been able to get the PySide webkit libraries on my production device yet, not sure why | 06:07 |
| go1dfish | what really surprised me.... | 06:07 |
| go1dfish | was when I did a gtk python desktop applet.... | 06:07 |
| nezb | ? | 06:07 |
| go1dfish | that imported PySide and set up a QApplication... | 06:07 |
| nezb | o.o | 06:07 |
| go1dfish | and launched a window with a QWebView control | 06:07 |
| go1dfish | and it actually somehow worked | 06:07 |
| nezb | ...from gtk applet? | 06:08 |
| go1dfish | which I'm still quite baffled as to how | 06:08 |
| go1dfish | since my understanding is that the desktop applets all run in the same process | 06:08 |
| nezb | yes they do | 06:08 |
| go1dfish | but I swear it worked | 06:08 |
| nezb | black magic! he is a witch! burn him! | 06:08 |
| go1dfish | all python | 06:08 |
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| go1dfish | webkit is quite snappy on the n900 btw | 06:09 |
| go1dfish | faster than the built in browser | 06:09 |
| nezb | really? | 06:09 |
| nezb | I would like a faster browser | 06:09 |
| go1dfish | even with all the python overhead I was using to invoke it | 06:09 |
| nezb | Fennec I tried earlier today was the wrong direction... | 06:10 |
| go1dfish | no flash though | 06:10 |
| nezb | Flash is overrated imho | 06:10 |
| go1dfish | yeah I'd recommend uninstalling fennec and xulrunner | 06:10 |
| nezb | Sorry for the inconvenience. garage has a maintenance break. <--- ANGER | 06:10 |
| go1dfish | xulrunner is 20+ MB and installs in / partition | 06:10 |
| go1dfish | Tear is a webkit based browser | 06:10 |
| go1dfish | pretty fast | 06:10 |
| nezb | wtf. that's stupid of the developers/packagers. | 06:10 |
| nezb | is Tear in maemo repos? | 06:10 |
| Vratha | hey there | 06:10 |
| nezb | hello | 06:10 |
| go1dfish | it's in dev or testing, not sure which | 06:10 |
| go1dfish | hey Vratha | 06:11 |
| nezb | the package is just tear? | 06:11 |
| asidjazz | so it looks like maemo has more support for python than ruby | 06:11 |
| Vratha | any of you guys compiling software for the n900? i was thinking of doing up prboom | 06:11 |
| go1dfish | I asked the nokia guys if they were planning on moving to webkit for the browser engine as they transition more to QT | 06:11 |
| Vratha | because, i want to go to work, and during breaks, load up my doom wads and DESTROY CYBERDEMONS!!! :) | 06:11 |
| go1dfish | but they say they plan to stick with gecko/firefox for the browser for the increased compatibility | 06:11 |
| go1dfish | and see webkit more as a web application play | 06:11 |
| go1dfish | Vratha: prboom would be sweet | 06:12 |
| nezb | and yet oddly Webkit is used on their 2 major competitors | 06:12 |
| go1dfish | nezb: I think partly they just want the name recognition | 06:12 |
| go1dfish | firefox that is | 06:12 |
| go1dfish | its the same browser as my desktop sort of thing | 06:12 |
| nezb | MOZILLA TECHNOLOGY (TM) | 06:12 |
| go1dfish | kind of the same play as apple, but will work for more people ;) | 06:12 |
| Vratha | safari/chrome are my browsers at home | 06:13 |
| nezb | chrome on ubuntu on my netbook | 06:13 |
| dmj7261 | on n900 you have the choice to use a webkit browser if you want. | 06:13 |
| nezb | firefox on my main pc with dual core cpu | 06:13 |
| go1dfish | havent tried chrome since it reached beta on linux yet | 06:13 |
| go1dfish | I tried some of the chromium builds though | 06:13 |
| nezb | chrome on ubuntu is _very_fast_ | 06:13 |
| dmj7261 | the competitors don't have gecko as an option. | 06:13 |
| nezb | I have the PPA for chromium nightlies | 06:13 |
| asidjazz | apparently there are already 500 chrome plkugins rd | 06:13 |
| go1dfish | also, microB is built around an abstraction layer for the rendering engine... | 06:14 |
| dmj7261 | I've heard chrome is really fast on linux, at least compared to chrome on windows. | 06:14 |
| go1dfish | dmj7261: shit really, last I tried it on windows it was crazy fast | 06:14 |
| nezb | its even faster! | 06:14 |
| Dyresen | it's pretty fast on osx too | 06:14 |
| asidjazz | https://chrome.google.com/extensions/?utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk-ext&utm_medium=ha | 06:14 |
| Dyresen | Faster than firefox and safari | 06:14 |
| dmj7261 | Oh no! We have to pick between multiple incarnations of gecko and webkit based browsers. | 06:14 |
| nezb | Tear browser is not on extras... must be in testing | 06:15 |
| johnx | truly, it is a burden, all this choice :) | 06:15 |
| go1dfish | microB supposedly can swap out the rendering engine | 06:15 |
| dmj7261 | yeah, we have to pick between a selection of the best mobile browsers. | 06:15 |
| go1dfish | to webkit, opera, etc.. | 06:15 |
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| nezb | oh the horror | 06:15 |
| go1dfish | I haven't seen any docs on how to make microB switch though, just docs on the architecture that make it possible | 06:16 |
| dmj7261 | is there opera for maemo? | 06:16 |
| nezb | Maemo 3 ... | 06:16 |
| dmj7261 | not that I really care about opera when I can pick firefox. | 06:17 |
| nezb | came bundled with the original IT OS 2007 firmware for N800 | 06:17 |
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| johnx | maybe if maemo5 gets popular enough opera will do a new version | 06:17 |
| nezb | opera is still proprietary... everyone in here will probably throw a fit | 06:18 |
| johnx | meh | 06:18 |
| Dyresen | I think Opera is a better browser than firefox. Opera's problem is that their interface sucks and always has. | 06:18 |
| johnx | they shouldn't be using maemo, then | 06:18 |
| nezb | also I have been playing "bullshitbingo" on the N900 and we are very close to winning | 06:18 |
| dmj7261 | is chrome fully open source? | 06:19 |
| go1dfish | I'd be happy if opera made a maemo5 version | 06:19 |
| go1dfish | less happy if it was shipped as the default ;) | 06:20 |
| johnx | dmj7261, everything except for the google icon I think | 06:20 |
| go1dfish | given the proprietaryness | 06:20 |
| johnx | go1dfish, 100% agreement there :) | 06:20 |
| johnx | I just wish the rest of the source to microb was open :/ | 06:20 |
| go1dfish | it isnt? | 06:20 |
| dmj7261 | I wouldn't mind opera beng available, might even have it installed as a backup browser, but I can't see me prefering it | 06:20 |
| nezb | gui isnt | 06:20 |
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| johnx | yeah, parts of the UII aren't :| | 06:21 |
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| go1dfish | here on the docs on the EAL btw: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/docs/eal/index.html | 06:21 |
| go1dfish | oh didn't realize that | 06:21 |
| Lateralus | I haven't found a good browser for the n900 yet | 06:21 |
| antezz | whats wrong with the default one? | 06:22 |
| Lateralus | I just want something fast | 06:22 |
| Dyresen | Default once is pretty decent | 06:22 |
| Dyresen | one | 06:22 |
| Lateralus | it isn't bad, wouldn't say it rocks | 06:22 |
| Lateralus | I like it more than fennek | 06:23 |
| go1dfish | Lateralus: increase your cache size to 40mb | 06:23 |
| antezz | i like the default one, cant get greasemonkey to work tho :/ | 06:23 |
| go1dfish | it helps | 06:23 |
| asidjazz | oh dang https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/bnbbfjbeaefgipfjpdabmpadaacmafkj | 06:24 |
| antezz | firebug owns | 06:25 |
| Lateralus | lite doesn't | 06:26 |
| dmj7261 | so chrome is exactly the same as chromium, except for the icon? | 06:26 |
| dmj7261 | like firefox and abrowser or ice weasel? | 06:26 |
| go1dfish | dmj7261: chromium is usually more recent to | 06:26 |
| Lateralus | still beats the developefr toolbar though | 06:26 |
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| asidjazz | no i uninstalled it its wack | 06:27 |
| asidjazz | nothing like real firebug | 06:27 |
| antezz | haha | 06:27 |
| Lateralus | its just javascript | 06:27 |
| dmj7261 | I was worried they might be divergent in some ways. | 06:27 |
| go1dfish | the hardcore firebug stuff relies on internal firefox stuff | 06:28 |
| go1dfish | dmj7261: nah not as far as I know, except insofar that chromium is closer to the current state of development, so generally fresher | 06:28 |
| dmj7261 | found it: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/ChromiumBrowserVsGoogleChrome | 06:28 |
| dmj7261 | big one is optional sandbox and codec support | 06:29 |
| dmj7261 | although I would expect that codec support for chromium would be possible via plugins if it's like firefox. | 06:30 |
| johnx | I've been using chrome from the "developer channel" | 06:30 |
| johnx | I wonder how that compares to chromium builds | 06:30 |
| asidjazz | why didnt maemo choose chrome | 06:31 |
| asidjazz | why did google dump millions into firefox and then still build all this | 06:31 |
| go1dfish | dmj7261: most likely so, Im worried the codec crap will be a problem for html5 video adoption | 06:31 |
| dmj7261 | yeah | 06:31 |
| go1dfish | asidjazz: they give their employees 15% of their time to work on whatever so long as it's tangentally related heh | 06:32 |
| go1dfish | chrome started as one of those projects | 06:32 |
| go1dfish | honestly im glad, gecko is cool, and firefox is a shining example of open source, but man that codebase is crufty | 06:32 |
| dmj7261 | Hopefully theora will gain acceptance as it's quality improves | 06:32 |
| Vratha | hmm, i haven't noticed any speed over safari from chrom | 06:32 |
| Vratha | chrome* | 06:32 |
| Vratha | but i do notice that chrome doesn't crash like safari was... must have updated something on it that made it go bonkers | 06:33 |
| go1dfish | what version of safari? didn't safari just update the JS engine as well? | 06:33 |
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| Dyresen | Feels faster for sure here. | 06:33 |
| Vratha | yeah, it did. safari is fast | 06:33 |
| Vratha | oh, i didn't notice a speed difference | 06:33 |
| go1dfish | Vratha: safari/chrome on mac? | 06:33 |
| Dyresen | Page rendering feels more snappy than with safari | 06:33 |
| Vratha | only thing that annoys me about chrome is the URL bar doubles as a search bar | 06:33 |
| asidjazz | are you guys worried about the n900 vs the google phone | 06:34 |
| asidjazz | tahts supposed to be out early 2010 | 06:34 |
| Vratha | go1dfish: yeah | 06:34 |
| go1dfish | I haven't tried chrome on mac, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was slower there, it only recently was released as beta for mac | 06:34 |
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| dmj7261 | The only time I've really noticed a speed difference is with Firefox 3.5 | 06:34 |
| go1dfish | asidjazz: the google phone has no keyboard, and thus is irellevant to my interests | 06:34 |
| Vratha | asidjazz: only for the fact that maybe this phone won't get all the apps i think it deserves | 06:34 |
| Vratha | they need to hurry up and release the Ovi Store :) | 06:34 |
| asidjazz | go1dfish: lolu dont know that | 06:34 |
| antezz | hehe, you can make your own ;) | 06:34 |
| Dyresen | They also need to hury up and fix bugs like random reboot issues. | 06:35 |
| Vratha | Dyresen: yeah, the bugs are awful | 06:35 |
| go1dfish | asidjazz: well all the current rumors/pics say no keboard | 06:35 |
| asidjazz | go1dfish: you really believe those | 06:35 |
| go1dfish | I haven't ran into an unexpected reboot myself | 06:35 |
| asidjazz | 1st off look at the common pic | 06:35 |
| Vratha | no iSync plugin, buggy contacts menu, no default country code for skype calling | 06:35 |
| asidjazz | says HTC at the top | 06:35 |
| Vratha | and random app crashes | 06:35 |
| asidjazz | google specifically said in their announcement you will see no phone company logo just google branding | 06:36 |
| asidjazz | like how m$ did the zune | 06:36 |
| asidjazz | which was by toshiba | 06:36 |
| go1dfish | http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/12/google-employees-given-htc-made-google-phones/ | 06:36 |
| asidjazz | those are just htc phones | 06:36 |
| asidjazz | of some model | 06:36 |
| go1dfish | true, but its likely not a final unit either | 06:36 |
| asidjazz | probalby to play w/ or something until its manufactured | 06:36 |
| go1dfish | also, I think there is a perception that keyboards are not necessary/desired for mass market phones | 06:36 |
| nezb | http://www.billshrink.com/blog/nexus-one-google-phone-confirmed-details/ | 06:36 |
| asidjazz | if theres no kb i wont touch it either | 06:37 |
| asidjazz | thats all the same HTC | 06:37 |
| asidjazz | those pics are not the phone | 06:37 |
| dmj7261 | necessary? no desired? yes | 06:37 |
| asidjazz | They were long planning to have the phone be available by the holidays, but it has now slipped to early 2010. The phone will be produced by a major phone manufacturer but will only have Google branding | 06:37 |
| asidjazz | those things hvae HTC all over em | 06:37 |
| johnx | which is funny since HTC just started really trying to develop their brand | 06:37 |
| asidjazz | did you guys notice this | 06:38 |
| asidjazz | go to www.google.com | 06:38 |
| nezb | fade in | 06:38 |
| asidjazz | click "im feeling lucky" w/out typing anything | 06:38 |
| asidjazz | in the search box | 06:38 |
| nezb | OMG | 06:39 |
| nezb | what does it mean!? 1642841 | 06:39 |
| nezb | number of seconds until google takes over the world :o | 06:39 |
| Proteous | seconds till end of year... | 06:39 |
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| Dyresen | Wow | 06:39 |
| asidjazz | or google phone release | 06:39 |
| Proteous | no, it's exactly the time till the end of the year... | 06:39 |
| asidjazz | why would they do this this yaer? | 06:40 |
| asidjazz | google phone releas e:) | 06:40 |
| asidjazz | googles gonna send some kinda cellular single over the planet on NYE | 06:40 |
| asidjazz | gsm and cdma | 06:40 |
| asidjazz | that will brick all phones in existance | 06:40 |
| asidjazz | then boom google stores will come out of hte ground | 06:40 |
| Dyresen | My n900 bricked anyway | 06:41 |
| asidjazz | and phones will shoot out int o the air | 06:41 |
| asidjazz | and whoever catches one boom instant $500 removed from their checking | 06:41 |
| asidjazz | s/single/signal | 06:41 |
| nezb | I spend too much money on gadgets | 06:44 |
| Dyresen | Next thing will be a google bank | 06:44 |
| asidjazz | says the man on irc in #maemo :) | 06:44 |
| nezb | now I have more computer-like devices than I know what to do with | 06:44 |
| johnx | Dyresen, really? Tried leaving it on the charger for a while, then reflashing? | 06:44 |
| Dyresen | And then google child care | 06:44 |
| asidjazz | my computers a computer | 06:44 |
| asidjazz | my phones a computer | 06:44 |
| asidjazz | my mp3 player is a computer | 06:44 |
| nezb | ^ yup, yup, and yup | 06:44 |
| asidjazz | all w/ bt i can answer my phone w/ my computer play music w/ my phone and code on my mp3 player | 06:44 |
| nezb | also my netbook is a computer | 06:45 |
| nezb | my *soul* is a computer | 06:45 |
| asidjazz | just waiting for all of them to transform and combine to make a supre robot of me | 06:45 |
| johnx | nezb, now that's stretching it...to call netbooks computers I mean ;) | 06:45 |
| nezb | my netbook care a Core 2 Solo | 06:45 |
| Dyresen | johnx: yeah, really. Random reboot leading to bricked device. There is a bug report on it. But since the device reboots all the time, I sent it back. | 06:45 |
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| asidjazz | i just code on my netbook via my phone kb | 06:45 |
| asidjazz | via bt | 06:45 |
| asidjazz | thats why i want a netbook w/ no kb and a detachable bt kb for my phone i can use to code | 06:45 |
| asidjazz | while i jog | 06:45 |
| nezb | asidjazz - sounds like fun | 06:45 |
| asidjazz | in space | 06:45 |
| nezb | asidjazz - they make that I think | 06:46 |
| asidjazz | ill take 10 | 06:46 |
| johnx | Dyresen, bummer. I hope they get that sorted out. Some people really with similar symptoms just had totally flat batteries | 06:46 |
| asidjazz | pay top price | 06:46 |
| asidjazz | what $200 cheaper the 2nd day its out? who cares gimme here take my wallet | 06:46 |
| nezb | asidjazz - Google for "Always Innovating's Touch Book" | 06:46 |
| asidjazz | can i pay while jogging in space via bt from my phone? | 06:46 |
| nezb | it has ARM cpu / Linux | 06:46 |
| asidjazz | can i have it use my computer cpu and answer calls from myphone while shuffling songs on my mp3 player built into my show w/ a built in umbrella and ketchup dispensor | 06:47 |
| Dyresen | johnx: as far as I understand, not this doesn't happend on all devices, so yes, I hope it will be better. Getting new one on monday. | 06:47 |
| Dyresen | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350 | 06:47 |
| povbot | Bug 6350: random reboot bricks device | 06:47 |
| asidjazz | my shoe* | 06:47 |
| nezb | asidjazz: It just reads your mind and does everything for you without you even thinking | 06:47 |
| Dyresen | johnx: but quite a few people reports random reboots. | 06:48 |
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| nezb | I really want a touch book now >_> | 06:48 |
| asidjazz | id like to get a second n900 to strap to my ear so that i can send calls to it via the n900 im holding so i can type on an n900 while talking on one w/out speaker | 06:48 |
| johnx | Dyresen, yup. I noticed that. We had one of them in here, and he was able to borrow a battery from his friend to reflash and he seemed to be good after that | 06:48 |
| asidjazz | then while not using my other n900 they cluster to make one super n900 | 06:49 |
| nezb | is it possible that some of the random reboots are due to software bug and some others are hardware defect? | 06:49 |
| johnx | totally possible that it's a different issue though. if you can reflash at all, then yeah, it's different | 06:49 |
| nezb | we should not lump them all together .. maybe we can get kernel logs from randomly rebooting devices? | 06:49 |
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| asidjazz | actually i need an n900 w/ an n900 compartment to hold a spare n900 | 06:49 |
| Dyresen | johnx: yeah, could be the battery is just weak. But I doubt it. Had it on the charger all night. And it did this right from the beginning. | 06:49 |
| nezb | i need an N9001 because then it would be over 9000 | 06:49 |
| johnx | Dyresen, but you were able to reboot and the problem keeps happening? | 06:50 |
| nezb | brb gonna microwave some lasagna | 06:50 |
| asidjazz | OVER NINE THOUSAND | 06:50 |
| johnx | s/reboot/reflash/ | 06:50 |
| asidjazz | nezb: w/ your n900? | 06:50 |
| infobot | johnx meant: Dyresen, but you were able to reflash and the problem keeps happening? | 06:50 |
| * antezz eats nebz lasagna | 06:50 | |
| nezb | asidjazz: my n900 stays with me at all times | 06:50 |
| * johnx is obviously on cruise control | 06:50 | |
| * nezb thinks antezz fails at eating my lasagna because you spelled my name wrong | 06:51 | |
| * antezz crys | 06:51 | |
| * nezb is running on very little sleep | 06:51 | |
| * nezb comforts antezz | 06:51 | |
| nezb | it's okay... | 06:51 |
| johnx | antezz, dude. I think you ate someone else's lasagna :) | 06:51 |
| nezb | I'll show you how to make your own lasagna in the microwave :P | 06:52 |
| antezz | well it was yummy! | 06:52 |
| Dyresen | johnx: didn't even bother with reflashing. I dont have time for debugging a brand new device. I just told them to send me a new one or Im taking my bussines elsewere (I buy there for like $100K a year and some of my colleges do the same hehe) :) | 06:52 |
| nezb | my old microwave used to stop me from getting 802.11g | 06:52 |
| nezb | when it was on | 06:52 |
| antezz | ye, cuz im hungry | 06:52 |
| nezb | Dyresen: what do you buy $100k/yr of from Nokia? | 06:52 |
| johnx | Dyresen, just wondering :) | 06:52 |
| johnx | nezb, that's scary | 06:53 |
| Dyresen | nezb: no, servers and stuff mostly. | 06:53 |
| nezb | Dyresen: ah | 06:53 |
| nezb | johnx: ^_^ eventually it stopped working | 06:53 |
| antezz | i got some rack servers collecting dust here :o | 06:53 |
| johnx | don't stand near anything like that. you'll boil your eyeballs | 06:53 |
| nezb | antezz: I will trade you a lasagna for one | 06:54 |
| nezb | johnx: used to stand like 5 ft. away from it | 06:54 |
| johnx | hmm, 1/r^2 | 06:54 |
| antezz | haha you would need to make me alot of lasagna for that trade | 06:54 |
| johnx | yeah, not too bad I guess, but how far away was the computer it was interfering with? | 06:54 |
| nezb | antezz: ..... that .... could be arranged | 06:54 |
| nezb | johnx: 15 ft? | 06:54 |
| antezz | haha | 06:54 |
| nezb | it was right between the router and computer about 50 ft. total | 06:55 |
| johnx | I really need to buy one of those cheapo 2.4GHz-only spectrum analyzers | 06:55 |
| nezb | thinkgeek.com sells one I think | 06:55 |
| Arkenoi | nezb: there were 9000 and 9110 ;-) | 06:56 |
| nezb | I waste too much money on that site | 06:56 |
| johnx | I think I can expense it at work :D | 06:56 |
| nezb | =) | 06:56 |
| johnx | seriously, our wifi and bt mice/keyboards all lose connection like once a week or so, all at once | 06:57 |
| nezb | solar flare | 06:57 |
| johnx | thank you, Mr. BOFH | 06:57 |
| nezb | np ;p | 06:57 |
| johnx | I just bet that tomorrow you say it's static electricity, and global warming the day after that :P | 06:58 |
| nezb | no, global warming was recently disproven by an email server hack | 06:58 |
| antezz | oh noes 2012! | 06:58 |
| nezb | plus I'm in Florida, we don't have static electricty due to high humidity | 06:59 |
| nezb | I once took a job in a computer repair shop one summer and we never used ESD bands | 06:59 |
| johnx | if [ $server == "hackable" ] ; then global_warming=0 ; fi | 06:59 |
| nezb | johnx: mmm bash scripting. ref: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F2009%2FTECH%2F11%2F23%2Fhacker.climate%2Findex.html&rct=j&q=climate+change+hack&ei=y3QkS9aZLJS1tgeB4sXKBw&usg=AFQjCNGfPFM-1zax_Olfhwqk4BWY4O33pw&sig2=d6uwyl1rsuCqeb51zT3AWQ | 07:00 |
| asidjazz | OMG THE HACKERS | 07:00 |
| redeeman | does maemo 5 use UTF8 as default locale? | 07:00 |
| Xisdibik | johnx: i saw the pics, it had no slash marks what so ever.. therefor. not hacked | 07:00 |
| antezz | small url :o | 07:00 |
| nezb | my bad. google eats my urls. http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/11/23/hacker.climate/index.html | 07:00 |
| nezb | that's the direct link | 07:00 |
| nezb | (I hate google for doing this) | 07:00 |
| johnx | redeeman, I've never been to UTF8. how's the weather? | 07:00 |
| johnx | nezb, yeah, I heard about that one. I don't want to get into the drama | 07:01 |
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| nezb | me neither, johnx, I think that it is quite funny though | 07:01 |
| nezb | should have hired a better IT staff, or bought them more coffee ;) | 07:01 |
| antezz | or give them a raise | 07:02 |
| Xisdibik | nezb: or not used email | 07:02 |
| nezb | that too | 07:02 |
| nezb | Xisdibik: you don't use email? | 07:02 |
| Xisdibik | nezb: i do, but i dont send information that could falsify Global Warming :P | 07:02 |
| nezb | Xisdibik: touche | 07:03 |
| antezz | or use envrypted mails | 07:03 |
| Xisdibik | encryption can be broken | 07:03 |
| redeeman | johnx: well.. some locale.utf8 | 07:03 |
| Xisdibik | they should all meet | 07:03 |
| johnx | antezz, just changes the attack point to some dude's laptop | 07:03 |
| johnx | redeeman, :) uhm, how would I check that? | 07:03 |
| nezb | I like how nobody suggests that they should have just not lied about it in the first place | 07:03 |
| redeeman | uhm, probably /etc/default/locale | 07:03 |
| nezb | echo $LANGUAGE | 07:04 |
| johnx | nezb, well duh. everyone lies about global warming at work. they just happened to be scientists | 07:04 |
| antezz | why? they earn alot of money from it | 07:04 |
| nezb | honesty > * | 07:04 |
| nezb | redeemon, my Debian box has enviornment variable LANG set to en_US.UTF-8, since Maemo is similar maybe it is set also? | 07:05 |
| antezz | im gonna brb and make some food, cant take the N900 with me since its on charge :( | 07:05 |
| johnx | en_US | 07:06 |
| johnx | :( | 07:06 |
| nezb | dpkg-reconfigure locales? | 07:07 |
| redeeman | johnx: no .utf8? | 07:07 |
| nezb | no just en_US when I type env | 07:08 |
| redeeman | en_US is an abomination though, at the very least en_GB | 07:08 |
| nezb | why is en_US an abomination | 07:08 |
| redeeman | because of the US | 07:08 |
| nezb | hey... | 07:08 |
| johnx | yeah. well, that's constructive | 07:08 |
| nezb | /flamewar avoided | 07:09 |
| redeeman | on another subject, does anyone know how fast the big flash is on the n900? the one used for MyDocs | 07:09 |
| johnx | more like /ignore avoided :) | 07:09 |
| nezb | hehe | 07:09 |
| nezb | redeemon - what do you mean | 07:10 |
| johnx | I forgot, do you have an N900 redeeman? | 07:10 |
| redeeman | i do | 07:10 |
| johnx | well, it has time and dd :) | 07:10 |
| asidjazz | http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/05/13/qt-declarative-ui/ | 07:11 |
| asidjazz | are we able to use qml yet | 07:11 |
| nezb | oh, flash as in flash memory not adobe flash.... | 07:11 |
| johnx | but I don't know how fast it is, just that it's slower than the rootfs NAND | 07:11 |
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| redeeman | im debating whether to get a microsd card for my debian chroot, or repartition the big one | 07:11 |
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| johnx | get a card and a card reader for your desktop | 07:11 |
| redeeman | i could just expose the sd card via gadget mass storage | 07:12 |
| johnx | you could. just giving some advice from my experience getting debian on the N800 ;) | 07:13 |
| nezb | in ~/MyDocs and running: time dd if=/dev/zero of=temp bs=8192k count=60 | 07:13 |
| asidjazz | http://wiki.maemo.org/QML#Test_Run_on_Device | 07:13 |
| asidjazz | whoa | 07:13 |
| asidjazz | u guys play w/ this yet | 07:13 |
| johnx | haven't yet, but it does look quite interesting | 07:14 |
| nezb | ooh looks cool | 07:14 |
| nezb | results for 491520k written to ~/MyDocs: 1m 12.29s (real), 0s (user), 9.55s (sys) | 07:15 |
| johnx | did you 'sync' afterwards? | 07:15 |
| nezb | oh... crap | 07:16 |
| redeeman | otherwise you should have done oflag=direct, but busybox dd probably doesn't support that | 07:16 |
| nezb | *goes to redo test* | 07:16 |
| johnx | though, it's also possible the fs is mounted sync | 07:16 |
| nezb | FS is not mounted flag sync | 07:17 |
| nezb | I will redo the test | 07:17 |
| johnx | also, I read that as 500MB in 12.29s the first time :) | 07:17 |
| nezb | +4.5 | 07:18 |
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| redeeman | nezb: 4.5 seconds more? | 07:18 |
| nezb | oops wrong window | 07:19 |
| nezb | 70.08 seconds including dd and sync | 07:19 |
| johnx | that's faster, isn't it? | 07:19 |
| redeeman | erhm, that's less than before? | 07:19 |
| nezb | this is 7013 kbytes/sec | 07:19 |
| nezb | yeah, oddly | 07:19 |
| johnx | that actually seems mostly inline with what I see on USB transfers | 07:20 |
| nezb | agreed | 07:20 |
| johnx | not more than one order of magnitude off at any rate :) | 07:20 |
| redeeman | then microsd won't be much faster | 07:20 |
| johnx | but the convenience will probably be nice | 07:20 |
| nezb | I am going to do the test again to make sure this isn't a fluke | 07:20 |
| redeeman | perhaps it does special things with zeroes | 07:21 |
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| nezb | redeeman - "special"? | 07:21 |
| redeeman | well.. FTL stuff can be funky, it may do some reset or reorganize wear levelling, stuff it wouldn't normally do | 07:22 |
| nezb | doing this causes my little CPU status meter to go nearly 100% | 07:22 |
| johnx | hey, generating fresh zeros takes a lot of power | 07:23 |
| nezb | this time it took 85 seconds | 07:23 |
| nezb | for the same 503316480 bytes of zeroes | 07:23 |
| nezb | so 5782k/sec | 07:23 |
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| nezb | basically you are looking at normal "class-6" write speeds | 07:24 |
| johnx | I should try that test on my zaurus 5500 :) | 07:26 |
| johnx | though, I'll try with a smaller size, since I don't want to be waiting all night ... | 07:27 |
| antezz | do you guys got voice/cam plugin to work with pidgin? | 07:29 |
| redeeman | the question is, how much more power does the microsd card stuff use than the builtin? | 07:29 |
| johnx | never tried | 07:29 |
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| antezz | i tryd but the options was stil blacked out | 07:29 |
| nezb | that exists? sounds like something I might want | 07:29 |
| pupnik | i put my videos into subdirectories to organize them. a dying breed. | 07:30 |
| antezz | ye pidgin comes with a few plugins | 07:30 |
| antezz | one of them are voice/cam plugin havent got it to work yet | 07:30 |
| antezz | would be fun tho :) | 07:30 |
| johnx | redeeman, er, looking at the additional power required by the N800 for an SD card, might be a decent place to start | 07:30 |
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| redeeman | http://www.drlinux.it/maemo/battery_consumption.html | 07:33 |
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| johnx | heh. zaurus 5500 (strongarm) writes to a class 6 SDHC at 307kB/s :) | 07:34 |
| nezb | nice :) | 07:34 |
| johnx | tested with 64MB. took just over 4 minutes | 07:35 |
| johnx | I will not be retesting with 512MB... | 07:35 |
| nezb | to be fair I only did 500MB | 07:35 |
| johnx | heh. I just tend to type in powers of two when I'm thinking in terms of data storage :) | 07:35 |
| nezb | I do too. It was actually 480MB when I did ls -lh on the file... 8192*60 | 07:36 |
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| pupnik | ustream has client for androi and iphone | 07:40 |
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| Smily | redeeman about the internal big flash speeds, it's very fast, i got ~16MB/s transfer (write) speeds on it | 07:43 |
| redeeman | the test nezb just conducted says only 6MB/s | 07:43 |
| johnx | files smaller than 256MB may appear to transfer very fast ;) | 07:44 |
| Smily | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14681/N900TransferSpeed.png | 07:44 |
| redeeman | your OS caches that | 07:44 |
| Smily | it does? | 07:45 |
| Smily | i doubt it, since it presents itself as mass storage - write caching being off | 07:45 |
| redeeman | well hmm, i don't know about win7, if it caches it should be alot faster than 16mb, but still, 16mb is quite fast | 07:45 |
| johnx | wouldn't be surprised if some cache was involved on the N900's side as well | 07:45 |
| redeeman | the block cache yes | 07:45 |
| Smily | how can it cache 16MB/s for a gb? | 07:46 |
| Smily | lol | 07:46 |
| redeeman | or just plain file cache if it doesn't use loopback | 07:46 |
| johnx | I assume that 16MB/s is just the average at that point | 07:46 |
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| redeeman | indeed | 07:47 |
| johnx | it starts out faster than that, then gets closer to 6-8MB/s | 07:47 |
| redeeman | well... i don't trust what windows says, this would have to be tested under something more...... reliable :) | 07:47 |
| redeeman | i think nezbs data is accurate | 07:47 |
| Smily | *sigh* | 07:47 |
| * johnx installs LDAP on his zaurus | 07:48 | |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | dd if=/dev/zero of=/mnt/d.u.t./xxx bs=10M count=100 | 07:50 |
| redeeman | add oflag=direct | 07:50 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | easy like that, no? | 07:51 |
| redeeman | and it will bypass all caching | 07:51 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | bah, for 1000M I don't care much but caching. but ok | 07:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | btw a killall -SIGUSR1 dd comes in handy now and then | 07:53 |
| redeeman | still annoying having to do it, i've often thought about adding a wget-like progressbar to dd | 07:54 |
| pupnik | looking at the crisis of 2007. | 07:54 |
| pupnik | i see engineering | 07:54 |
| pupnik | would love some more codecs | 07:55 |
| Smily | okay redeeman, i made it more "reliable" now, i began the file transfer and started the stop watch, when the file transfer was done, i immediately ejected the drive (meaning that there could be no writing after the fact) and stopped the stop watch after it unmounted, this is the data i came up with: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=734312448+bytes+in+42.778+seconds+in+mebibytes%2Fs | 07:56 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | redeeman: it actually has. alas only every 5 min or such | 07:56 |
| Smily | redeeman is that better? :) | 07:56 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | Smily: no idea. you tell us. is the file correctly written, or did you just ruin the fs by removing the disk? | 07:58 |
| redeeman | Smily: well.. kindof, still a few things though, did you check the file was copied entirely after it was ejected? and also, we still don't know if the n900 caches on that end | 07:58 |
| redeeman | DocScrutinizer-8: i assume he used the windows safe remove | 07:58 |
| Smily | i used the windows safe remove | 07:59 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm ok | 07:59 |
| Smily | so i didn't ruin it | 07:59 |
| microlith | mmm | 07:59 |
| johnx | interesting | 08:00 |
| microlith | the installable vim is not very good | 08:00 |
| johnx | microlith, could be worse: you could be forced to use ed | 08:00 |
| microlith | true | 08:00 |
| redeeman | or that weird editor the freebsd installer has(if thats not ed) | 08:00 |
| microlith | but at least then I wouldn't expect the arrow keys to work | 08:00 |
| Smily | redeeman i couldn't eject the drive if it was still writing and the file manager shows the same size on the n900; also the n900 can't cache unknown data in advance and the file has never been on the device before :P | 08:00 |
| redeeman | Smily: it can cache before it writes to the actual card | 08:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | microlith: not on edlin | 08:01 |
| Smily | but how can it transfer the same amount quicker if the connection was slower? | 08:01 |
| redeeman | Smily: but the connection is usb? so it could be cached before it was written to flash | 08:02 |
| Smily | caching doesn't help you get from 6 to 16 | 08:02 |
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| redeeman | it does if you have enough ram on the N900, hell, it could even be using the somewhat large nand swap drive for caching | 08:02 |
| Smily | augh, do i have to unplug the cable the next time? heh | 08:02 |
| redeeman | Smily: that won't make a difference either | 08:02 |
| Smily | or do i have | 08:02 |
| Smily | er | 08:02 |
| redeeman | Smily: im suggesting its the n900 itself that may cache, not your windows | 08:02 |
| johnx | redeeman, the swap is on the the same card as mydocs, IIRC | 08:03 |
| Smily | it can cache 700mb? | 08:03 |
| Smily | also yeah | 08:03 |
| redeeman | johnx: oh, i thought it was on the mtd | 08:03 |
| Smily | isn't the small flash just like 256mb? | 08:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | if the swap is that fast... so yeeha ;-P | 08:04 |
| johnx | yeah, since nezb complained about high cpu usage, that seems like an interesting thing to see | 08:04 |
| redeeman | Smily: well i don't know, but its a possibility, else i don't understand why nezb's is slower | 08:04 |
| redeeman | hmm yeah, high cpu usage | 08:04 |
| johnx | some type of inefficiency with /dev/zero? | 08:04 |
| johnx | interrupts? | 08:04 |
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| Smily | oh, he used dd? | 08:04 |
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| Smily | maybe the usb->flash is at a lower level/more direct? | 08:05 |
| redeeman | nope, it works directly from linux | 08:06 |
| redeeman | as gadget mass storage | 08:06 |
| redeeman | if anything it could be slower, but not much | 08:06 |
| johnx | whoa. something is really weird when reading from /dev/zero | 08:06 |
| redeeman | interresting | 08:06 |
| Smily | it returns a 2? | 08:06 |
| redeeman | johnx: perhaps context switches | 08:07 |
| johnx | cat /dev/zero: 000000002(*&$%I quitEOF | 08:07 |
| Smily | lol, i was right! | 08:07 |
| redeeman | that's not healthy | 08:07 |
| johnx | the screen tap noise happens like 1-2 seconds after a tap, and the device is so unresponsive I couldn't switch terminals to look at top while it was running | 08:07 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | wtf?? | 08:07 |
| Smily | heh | 08:08 |
| pupnik | t.m.o slow? | 08:09 |
| microlith | woohoo | 08:09 |
| johnx | huh, not a problem reading from /dev/zero | 08:09 |
| microlith | rubygtk works | 08:09 |
| pupnik | johnx use pupnik tracker fix maybe | 08:09 |
| pupnik | oh | 08:09 |
| johnx | guess it's just the case of reading /dev/zero and writing to ~/MyDocs | 08:09 |
| johnx | aaah, that explains a lot actually :) | 08:10 |
| microlith | packaging this thing up into a distributable library might not be so fun | 08:10 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | heh guys! first of all: use *real* dd! | 08:10 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | busybox SUCKS | 08:10 |
| Smily | lol | 08:11 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, you think it's not honoring bs=? | 08:11 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | I really have not the slightest idea what that piece of crap might do | 08:12 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | I know it sucks primetime | 08:12 |
| * johnx shrugs | 08:13 | |
| johnx | it certainly makes the device double-plus unresponsive | 08:13 |
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| dmj7261 | http://www.precentral.net/webgl-nokia-n900-makes-us-hopeful | 08:15 |
| dmj7261 | this is cool | 08:15 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | I'd,suggest a nice -n 1 dd... for that. But wait, crappybox doesn't know nice? | 08:16 |
| johnx | it does | 08:16 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm, depends | 08:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | I know a crappybox that doesn't ;-P | 08:18 |
| johnx | sure. it's a compile time option, just like all of busybox | 08:18 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yep. that's why I say I have no idea whatsoever what it does. | 08:19 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | and that's why I *hate* busybox | 08:19 |
| johnx | it's not like there's something magical about coreutils that keeps someone from cutting it down to save space | 08:20 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | it's a botch to run initscripts on 32MB devices | 08:20 |
| johnx | smaller machines than that, too ;) | 08:20 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | never meant to be a decent interactive shell | 08:21 |
| johnx | for sure. but they had to save space on the N900 for all the pixmaps that really just couldn't be offloaded to the 32GB vfat fs :) | 08:22 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yeah I C | 08:23 |
| antezz | grr, the headset that came with N900 jsut got fked up.. only sound from one... | 08:23 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | shakin hands video first of them | 08:23 |
| antezz | and i did nothing but listing music :( | 08:24 |
| johnx | heh, i think I blew mine up already too | 08:24 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | insert jack tightly? | 08:24 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | duh | 08:24 |
| antezz | yep tryd them both on pc and in N900 | 08:25 |
| antezz | same result | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | broke the messy flatcable? | 08:25 |
| antezz | thers little sound from it tho | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | tzzzz | 08:25 |
| antezz | dont seems like the cable | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | you tore or bent it? | 08:26 |
| antezz | cuz i checked it no results | 08:26 |
| antezz | nope | 08:26 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | :-( | 08:26 |
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| antezz | i did just sit and listing to music and bang! | 08:26 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | freakin | 08:26 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | kick ass of reseller | 08:27 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | or nokia | 08:27 |
| antezz | haha im gonna whine to support! they have to give me new better ones :( | 08:27 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | the headset is neither exceptionally great nor special nor expensive | 08:27 |
| antezz | nah but i except them to not break after like 3 days and 2 uses :) | 08:28 |
| redeeman | i found them to be quite nice to have on | 08:28 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | but on a device that tag I'd expect at least they work | 08:28 |
| redeeman | compared to the extremely uncomfortable ones SE bundle | 08:28 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | so yes, they should send you replacement. preferrably better ones | 08:29 |
| antezz | well im gonna se what they say :) | 08:29 |
| johnx | well, Nokia used to bundle a really horrific pair with the N800/N810 :) | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | umm, my mind refuses to even remember | 08:31 |
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| antezz | hehe | 08:32 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | wasn't that the one with micbrick? | 08:32 |
| antezz | my mail has been sent! | 08:34 |
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| johnx | yeah, and the patented earFucker design :) | 08:34 |
| antezz | hope the N900 dont suddly break to, haha | 08:34 |
| johnx | seems pretty solid to me | 08:34 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | aaaaaarg | 08:34 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yeah | 08:35 |
| antezz | ye :) | 08:35 |
| johnx | more solid than the N810, and if it's exactly as solid as the N800 I'll be totally thrilled | 08:35 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | always falls out after 30sec | 08:35 |
| antezz | but the accessories dont seems solid :) | 08:36 |
| antezz | i know a guys who charger suddly broken to | 08:36 |
| johnx | Macer, what movie should I watch? | 08:36 |
| antezz | now he has to charge thru the usb->pc which takes years haha | 08:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer-8 scrutinizes charger | 08:37 | |
| antezz | your charger broken to? | 08:38 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm. made in china | 08:38 |
| antezz | haha | 08:38 |
| johnx | *everything* is made in China | 08:38 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | not (yet) XP | 08:38 |
| johnx | those little stickers that say "Made in the USA": those are made in China :) | 08:38 |
| Corsac | that's what you think | 08:38 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | lol | 08:39 |
| Corsac | the only XP part made in USA is the one made by the NSA | 08:39 |
| antezz | i like how the N900 says "designed in finland" but not says where its made :o | 08:39 |
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| johnx | I wonder if Nokia started doing that first, or Apple | 08:39 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | duh. thought it does | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | made in Korea | 08:41 |
| Vratha | the n900 charger that came with my phone says "Made in Japan" | 08:43 |
| Vratha | i found that interesting | 08:44 |
| Vratha | i thought japan would charge more than a lot of other places | 08:44 |
| antezz | mine says china | 08:44 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yeah. that's what I know for chargers. Second source OEM. Generally crap | 08:45 |
| johnx | Vratha, maybe they share a lot in common with the chargers that some Japanese cell phone maker uses. (but yeah, I'm surprised to see made in Japan on anything these days) | 08:46 |
| Anouk | what power plug does the charger have? US two pin? (importing my N900 from the states and will need a universal multiplug) | 08:47 |
| Corsac | hmh, though it charges through the usb port, is the connector a standard usb connector? | 08:47 |
| Corsac | well, mini-usb | 08:47 |
| Corsac | or is it the same as the n810, which looks thinner | 08:47 |
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| Vratha | Anouk: i bought mine in the US, and as you can guess, it has the standard 2-pin charger plug | 08:47 |
| Anouk | great, thanks | 08:47 |
| Vratha | np | 08:47 |
| antezz | my got 2pins also but mines EU | 08:48 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | it's micro usb standard B type | 08:48 |
| johnx | N810 used microbUSB-b as well | 08:48 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yep | 08:49 |
| Corsac | hmhm | 08:49 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | they even come with absolutely same usb cable | 08:49 |
| Vratha | any tmobile n900 users here? are you getting your internet traffic routed through kansas as well, even if you're in a state 1,000 miles away? | 08:49 |
| pwnguin | Vratha: heh. i live in kansas =( | 08:49 |
| Vratha | it's like tmobile is saying "your data is in kansas again" | 08:49 |
| Vratha | i want it to say "you're not in kansas anymore" | 08:50 |
| johnx | Vratha, haven't tried a traceroute or similar yet | 08:50 |
| Anouk | if not mistaken, nokia does include a conversion cable from the older, small-round-pin charger to microusb, correct? (so at least i can use my same car charger!) | 08:50 |
| pwnguin | Vratha: i have tmobile, and live in kansas city. and i dont have a data plan | 08:50 |
| Vratha | johnx: oh, you just need to get the external IP and do a geoip lookup on it. you can get your ip from speedtest.net or somthing | 08:50 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | and honestly I don't care | 08:50 |
| Vratha | pwnguin: haha, ok | 08:50 |
| Corsac | hmhm I guess other connectors I have are miniB, not microB | 08:50 |
| pwnguin | do they make standardized microb car chargers? | 08:51 |
| johnx | the cool thing about the old-style-to-micro-usb converter they include is that you can plug in any 5V source to it. so it doesn't require any "USB certified charger" weirdness | 08:52 |
| Anouk | ahh | 08:52 |
| Anouk | nice | 08:52 |
| pwnguin | is the secondary camera supposed to be crap? | 08:54 |
| antezz | yes, ita for videocalls | 08:54 |
| pwnguin | like, im not even sure it's good for that | 08:54 |
| johnx | pwnguin, yes. just pretend it's not there | 08:55 |
| antezz | haha | 08:55 |
| antezz | its good if you wanna look like pixelart | 08:55 |
| johnx | or if you just rolled out of bed and need to be on a video conference | 08:55 |
| Vratha | pwnguin: it's good enough for some basic video chat, but it's not even working yet | 08:55 |
| johnx | heh, well the *camera* works fine | 08:56 |
| pwnguin | the mirror app has a warning that it's dependant on hardware and firmware revision; wondering if that means theres a firmware fix planned | 08:56 |
| johnx | but nothing really uses it, except "mirror" I think | 08:56 |
| johnx | I'll give it good odds that it's the same cam as the N8x0 had, which makes it just crap | 08:56 |
| Vratha | when is nokia planning to release a software update? i heard sometime this month | 08:56 |
| Vratha | but i couldn't find any announcement | 08:56 |
| johnx | Vratha, everytime someone asks when it's out, they push it back a month :) | 08:57 |
| antezz | end of this month is what i heard | 08:57 |
| Vratha | antezz: ah, cool | 08:57 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | pwnguin: use a caradapter with a A type receptacle | 08:57 |
| wazd | damn, it's kinda cold outside | 08:58 |
| redeeman | johnx: isn't it weird to include the hw then, if its worthless? | 08:58 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnx: you seen any user manual or specs for those freaky adapters? | 08:58 |
| johnx | Vratha, it puts me in "TWENTYNINE PINES, CA" :) | 08:58 |
| pwnguin | Vratha: just a hint: geoip aint gonna do shit for cellular connections | 08:59 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, the old-style -> micro-usb ones? nope, but I already "tested" mine with a third party 5V source :> | 08:59 |
| Vratha | johnx: is that far from you? | 08:59 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | pwnguin: johnx front cam might improve with better driver | 08:59 |
| pwnguin | Vratha: probably, the ip pool is allowed to migrate between towers etc, so any ip -> location mapping is bogus | 09:00 |
| kevloral | pwnguin: a firmware fix is already done, just not released yet. | 09:01 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, once you denoise it, you'd be left with like 10 pixels | 09:01 |
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| johnx | Vratha, 1300+ miles | 09:01 |
| johnx | the more interesting thing would probably be traceroute ;) | 09:01 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnsu01: change exposure time and ASA and get much better S/N | 09:02 |
| Vratha | pwnguin: your local ip would travel through pools. the external IP will most likely stay with the same tower. lending credence to this fact is that my external IP is always in a particular range, and it's always in the same geographical region: i.e. 1000 miles away | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | err | 09:02 |
| Vratha | johnx: hehe, if you can do one; i couldn't get a reliable trace | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnx: ^ | 09:02 |
| Vratha | johnx: what was your download speed like? mine varies between 650 and 1100 kbps... usually around 750 kbps | 09:03 |
| Vratha | on AT&T i could usually get 3300 kbps | 09:03 |
| Vratha | give or take 200 | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | geoIP is handwaving always. | 09:04 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, the camera image on the N8x0 never improved over the course of 2 years. but maybe people are seeing worse results on the N900 than the N8x0? haven't tried mirror yet | 09:04 |
| Vratha | really, i think it's been pretty accurate | 09:04 |
| antezz | i got 100 mb wlan connection :) | 09:05 |
| Vratha | i doubt it's going to be off by 1000+ miles | 09:05 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | I think N900 frontcam is even factor 10 worse than N810 | 09:05 |
| Vratha | antezz: yes, so do i | 09:05 |
| johnx | I saw 1Mb/s or a little more in a speed test. most of the time it feels quick enough | 09:05 |
| Vratha | 101 mbps actually :) | 09:05 |
| Vratha | johnx: ah, okay. | 09:05 |
| Vratha | johnx: thanks for the info. that must just be the usual speed of tmo | 09:06 |
| Vratha | suck | 09:06 |
| johnx | dunno. they'll have good coverage areas and bad | 09:06 |
| Vratha | yeah. maybe when i drive into nyc it'll be better | 09:06 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnx: isn't it strange mplayer doesn't know any brightness etc options for frontcam? | 09:06 |
| johnx | at least where I get signal I get service | 09:06 |
| Vratha | i looked though, and i'm in one of the "awesomely covered zones" | 09:06 |
| luke-jr | http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=42952&id=1496065002&l=f5497054df | 09:06 |
| Vratha | but it's funny, because my phone can't maintain a strong 3g connection if the wind blows the wrong way | 09:07 |
| Vratha | i guess at&t out here just has better coverage (more dropped calls though) | 09:07 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnx: I guess a better driver can do miracles | 09:07 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, dunno. mplayer's v4l2 is aimed at recording TV, isn't it | 09:07 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnx: so what? | 09:08 |
| johnx | sooo, maybe it doesn't expose brightness? | 09:08 |
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| johnx | even if the underlying v4l2 driver supports it | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | it does for maincam | 09:08 |
| johnx | ah, well that was the part I was missing ;) | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | not all you'd expect - like flashlight control... but at least basic pict ctrl | 09:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | nuttin like that for crapcam | 09:10 |
| johnx | heh. maybe the N800 camera design would have been a better choice for the N900 (one camera on a swiveling stalk) | 09:10 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | looks to me like 6400ASA, 1uS EXP TIME | 09:10 |
| johnx | (and yes, I know that it had tons of problems) | 09:11 |
| Vratha | anyone know if there's a maemo package that has the "file" command? | 09:11 |
| Vratha | i can't find it | 09:11 |
| johnx | ah. much worse. yeah that really might be fixable in software | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | I'd guess coreutils | 09:11 |
| Vratha | DocScrutinizer-8: thanks; i'll check it out | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | if there's such a pkg | 09:12 |
| johnx | jeez. what the heck happened to that thing? how do you make the N8x0 camera *worse*? | 09:12 |
| Vratha | DocScrutinizer-8: i don't see it :-/ | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | in appman? | 09:12 |
| Vratha | apt-cache | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | or shell & apt? | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm. no idea | 09:13 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | you got tools repo? | 09:13 |
| Vratha | no, how do i add that one? | 09:13 |
| johnx | a word of warning: doing that might end with you reflashing | 09:13 |
| Vratha | i have Extras/-testing/-devel | 09:13 |
| Vratha | devel is disabled right now | 09:13 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | check wiki. devtools/maemo5 or such | 09:13 |
| Vratha | eh, i'm a software dev. reflashing ain't no thing | 09:13 |
| johnx | s/might/will/ | 09:14 |
| infobot | johnx meant: a word of warning: doing that will end with you reflashing | 09:14 |
| Vratha | not too worried about it | 09:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnx: heh *will*. how long does it take? | 09:15 |
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| johnx | if you go and install coreutils with apt, it'll conflict with busybox, ending with both in a partially installed state. I'd bet dollars to donuts on that one...*unless* someone has repackaged it for extras so it meshes well with busybox | 09:16 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | duh. messed up alternatives? | 09:17 |
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| Vratha | there is no coreutils in tools | 09:18 |
| johnx | anyways, you want the package called 'file' | 09:18 |
| johnx | which is available in extras (or testing/devel) | 09:18 |
| Vratha | sweet | 09:18 |
| Vratha | thanks | 09:19 |
| Vratha | swore i searched for that earlier | 09:19 |
| Vratha | maybe not though | 09:19 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | so where's coreutils then, johnx ? | 09:19 |
| johnx | SDK or Tools probably | 09:19 |
| johnx | I think it's one of those cases where "upgrading" from busybox to coreutils is just not something they put any effort into making work right | 09:19 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | bah. I'll hammer it to work | 09:20 |
| Vratha | i really just wanted the "file" program | 09:20 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | how hard can it be? | 09:20 |
| Vratha | that way i could get some info and figure out what cross compiler i need to setup for prboom | 09:20 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, I thought that too. :) | 09:20 |
| Vratha | maybe their sdk has all i need though | 09:20 |
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| RST38h | heya johnx | 09:20 |
| johnx | for *just* coreutils, maybe not too bad, until you find some script that relies on busybox behavior ;) | 09:21 |
| johnx | hallo RST38h | 09:21 |
| johnsu01 | I was just reading http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-November/017675.html | 09:21 |
| johnx | thanks for the fbreader build, BTW | 09:21 |
| Vratha | oh, btw, i noticed the "degree" button on the n900 doesn't work | 09:22 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | eeek. which bastard script might rely on crapybox? | 09:22 |
| Vratha | on the virtual keyboard | 09:22 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, any of them. fancy playing russian roulette? | 09:22 |
| Vratha | you have to die for it to be russian | 09:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | incredible. "we assume it throws error on that option" ? | 09:23 |
| johnx | Vratha, even if you hit degree, then space? | 09:23 |
| Vratha | oh, i get it then | 09:23 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, even good scripters fall into bashisms. Is it any surprise that people on a deadline fall into ashisms or busyboxisms? | 09:23 |
| johnx | be default it's for adding that degree symbol above a character | 09:24 |
| Vratha | but on the other keys, it will just put in the char. just another bug i guess | 09:24 |
| johnx | Vratha, not a bug. :) | 09:24 |
| Vratha | it is | 09:24 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | I'm not aware of a single extended capability of busybox | 09:24 |
| johnx | just poorly defined behavior | 09:24 |
| Vratha | right, but poorly defined (i.e. not consistent) is a bug | 09:24 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | Vratha: there's just one line of deadkeys | 09:25 |
| johnx | yeah, they should probably be separated more clearly | 09:25 |
| Vratha | oh, all of them in that row are like that? | 09:25 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, how about parsing output of ps? | 09:25 |
| johnx | Vratha, yeah | 09:26 |
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| Vratha | weird | 09:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnx: ouch | 09:26 |
| Vratha | heh, i tried keys from every other row except that one when i found out the "degree" symbol didn't work | 09:26 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | fsck | 09:26 |
| Vratha | so i didn't notice that | 09:26 |
| RST38h | moo johnx | 09:27 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, there aren't going to be a *ton* of these problems, but they are there for sure. that's why we ended up starting Mer :) Maemo isn't quite a sane base for a "real" linux distro, but the GUI bits, and some of the concepts work very well for handhelds | 09:27 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnx: hehe | 09:28 |
| johnx | johnsu01, yeah, Carsten Munk started the Mer project. ;) | 09:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | Stskeeps started mer because of crapybox? nice :-D | 09:31 |
| johnsu01 | I was just reading about that stuff today because I was trying to port the debian package of nethack, which depends on debianutils, which depended on coreutils.. | 09:31 |
| johnx | not *just* for that reason | 09:32 |
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| johnx | but if you think that once you get coreutils and bash installed everything will magically be alright, you might be in for a surprise :) | 09:32 |
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| Smily | yay, i rebooted and got 60mb of rootfs back \o/ | 09:32 |
| johnx | johnsu01, looked at mud? | 09:32 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | anyway, you scared me enough to make me consider a /binplus | 09:32 |
| johnx | yeah, that's a good way to handle it | 09:33 |
| johnx | or /opt/bin ;) | 09:33 |
| johnsu01 | johnx: no, is that a nethack? I installed Vulture's Eye | 09:33 |
| johnx | johnsu01, mud-builder helps you port debian debs more easily | 09:33 |
| johnx | not sure if it's updated for fremantle though ... | 09:33 |
| johnsu01 | johnx: ah, okay. I did get nethack working eventually | 09:33 |
| johnx | ah, cool | 09:34 |
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| johnsu01 | nethack-console I mean, which is what I was after. | 09:34 |
| Smily | Vratha the keys work the same way as they do on computers (like you have to press space after certain characters because they can be combined with other characters) | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | only if you got a deadkeys kbd layout | 09:35 |
| Smily | well, i was talking about how it's usually set by default | 09:36 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | which I don't even remeber if it's default or not | 09:36 |
| johnx | some USians are very confused by the whole dead-keys thing ;) | 09:36 |
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| Smily | alright then, i was talking about how it's usually set by default on windows for my native language :P | 09:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnx: you never guess how confused *I* was when I accidentally installed it on some of my customers' boxes | 09:38 |
| johnx | :D | 09:38 |
| johnx | oh man, that's gotta be a real head scratcher | 09:38 |
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| Meiz_webirc | morning | 09:39 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yeah. try to talk someone thru a few simple cmdlines on the phone | 09:39 |
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| Meiz_webirc | i got my kernel to boot, but it seems to first ingnore some of the boot options and then panic | 09:39 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | you easily might lose your control and a customer | 09:40 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: "some"? try 99% | 09:40 |
| johnx | heh. probably about as confusing as when one of the blacklists we subscribe to blacklisted a 192.168.x.x address, causing *one* machine to fail to send mail | 09:40 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, scripts with ashisms/bbisms? | 09:40 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | lol | 09:41 |
| timeless_mbp | americans unfamiliar w/ deadkeys | 09:41 |
| timeless_mbp | Smily: each locale has its own keylayout | 09:41 |
| johnx | yup. the N900 is the first deadkey layout I've ever used | 09:41 |
| timeless_mbp | some locales use deadkeys because they need to | 09:41 |
| timeless_mbp | some important locales for important markets do not | 09:41 |
| johnx | but on the symbol board, everyone gets to play with deadkeys ;) | 09:41 |
| timeless_mbp | and some people designing software are incompetent | 09:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | anyway the last row of `a ´a etc is absolutely redundant and braindamaged on virtkbd | 09:43 |
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| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: eh? | 09:44 |
| Smily | timeless_mbp interesting, i didn't know that other (US) layouts didn't have deadkeys :) | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | i have c-macron, n-tilde, inverted-!, inverted-?, 1/2, ^2, ^3 | 09:45 |
| johnx | we don't believe in accents of any kind :) | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | Smily: there's a layout which does | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | but it's never the default | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | because os vendors aren't crazy | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | note: os vendors | 09:45 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | timeless_mbp: oh, so my "layout" is different then | 09:45 |
| Smily | timeless_mbp yeah, interesting | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia doesn't sell an os | 09:45 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: not even Maemo? | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | not for sle | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | it's bundled | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer-8: mind you, c-macron (?) is totally useless to me, since i don't write french | 09:46 |
| luke-jr | how did a non-Nokia product ship with Maemo then? | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | they took the open source pieces and built a ui around it | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | (a rather good ui, i might add) | 09:46 |
| luke-jr | that's not Maemo then... :/ | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | it might be better :) | 09:47 |
| timeless_mbp | the next 3 are all important to me when i write in spanish :) | 09:47 |
| luke-jr | that's not saying much | 09:47 |
| * luke-jr runs | 09:47 | |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 09:47 |
| timeless_mbp | the other 3 are well.... they can be useful even to normal americans | 09:47 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: does Maemo5 have 'user' hard-coded everywhere still? | 09:47 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: i'm pretty sure i don't want to look | 09:47 |
| luke-jr | lol | 09:47 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | luke-jr: easy to test, no? rename in passwd and ~ | 09:48 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer-8: i think it requires a device | 09:49 |
| timeless_mbp | and it isn't easy to test, you'd need to thoroughly use the product | 09:49 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | oh. sorry | 09:49 |
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| pwnguin | anyone have a .is_audio_player file for n900? | 09:57 |
| pwnguin | im guessing .sounds is the media dir | 09:59 |
| johnx | good guess :) | 09:59 |
| pwnguin | well that should keep the network busy | 10:05 |
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| pwnguin | looks like hal already knows what to do | 10:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | I wonder if I'll find I killed my system when I just entered a password for user user | 10:08 |
| pwnguin | anyone tried the music player with a substantially large library? | 10:10 |
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| johnx | like 8GB or so? | 10:10 |
| pwnguin | sure | 10:10 |
| pwnguin | just curious if it performs well | 10:10 |
| johnx | scrolling is annoying | 10:11 |
| johnx | other than that, it's fine | 10:11 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/osso-rss-feed-reader/data/osso-rss-feed-reader.conf#4 | 10:12 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/upstart/debian/event.d/system-services/rcS-late#24 | 10:12 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/ohm/Makefile.am#49 | 10:12 |
| * johnx sighs | 10:12 | |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/rtcom-eventlogger/data/rtcom-eventlogger.conf#3 | 10:12 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | actually scrolling is even a pita in contacts, sms etc | 10:12 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/osso-chess-ui/src/osso_chess_backup.conf#4 | 10:12 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 10:13 |
| timeless_mbp | most of these are text files of course | 10:13 |
| johnx | holy crap. that lowmem_allowed_uids thing is a funny hack | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | timeless_mbp: user? | 10:13 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer-8: you would prefer a finish word for 'user'? | 10:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | s/ini/inni/ | 10:15 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: DocScrutinnizer-8: you would prefer a finish word for 'user'? | 10:15 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | timeless_mbp: nah, just wondering what's the srccode pointers are | 10:15 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer-8: yes, search for 'home/user' | 10:15 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | eeeew | 10:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | actually I already considered to rename user to my own name. Good I was reluctant | 10:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | why rename your user? | 10:18 |
| timeless_mbp | a user name is a system local attribute | 10:18 |
| timeless_mbp | .ssh/config lets you pick another... | 10:18 |
| Smily | hm, is it possible to change the usb connection type while it's connected (ex. from mass to pc suite), if not, is it possible with an update or not possible at all? | 10:18 |
| timeless_mbp | Smily: safely? | 10:19 |
| Smily | uh, yes? | 10:19 |
| timeless_mbp | do you understand how mass storage works? | 10:19 |
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| Smily | timeless_mbp i mean, as safe as unplugging a cable | 10:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | well, you can rmmod the mass storage module and insmod pcsuite or whatever | 10:20 |
| timeless_mbp | it's absolutely rude and well... say hello to fat corruption | 10:20 |
| timeless_mbp | but that's your risk | 10:21 |
| Smily | but is it worse than unplugging and replugging? | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | nope | 10:21 |
| Smily | which is what i'm doing right now to change modes | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | well | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | if you eject safely from the host | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | that's better :) | 10:21 |
| Smily | yeah | 10:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | btw, pc suite has a way to do file management | 10:22 |
| timeless_mbp | you could use it | 10:22 |
| Smily | but it doesn't appear to be working for me | 10:22 |
| Smily | it's blank when i open it | 10:22 |
| timeless_mbp | what host os? | 10:22 |
| Smily | win7 | 10:22 |
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| pwnguin | yuo know, it pains me to say it, but the exchange RSS folder thing is really handy | 10:26 |
| pwnguin | hmm. looks like there's an rss2imap tool | 10:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | exchange rss? | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=home%2Fuser&find=conf | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw | 10:29 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | timeless_mbp: (why rename user) well probably just because my brain also has some notion about how my homedir is call - hardcoded ;-D | 10:29 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | timeless_mbp: of course you're right | 10:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | heh, your brain needs an upgrade | 10:30 |
| timeless_mbp | your homedir is ~ :) | 10:30 |
| pwnguin | timeless_mbp: outlook doubles as an rss reader; each feed is a folder of messages with read/unread status | 10:30 |
| timeless_mbp | mine can be /home/timeless /export/home/timeless /Users/timeless c:\Users\timeless | 10:30 |
| timeless_mbp | pwnguin: is it an outlook feature or a server feature? | 10:31 |
| timeless_mbp | (thunderbird has had that for ages fwiw) | 10:31 |
| pwnguin | apparently this is stored on exchange, because it shows up on my phone as well | 10:31 |
| timeless_mbp | interesting | 10:31 |
| pwnguin | if you think about it | 10:31 |
| pwnguin | its not much different than rss2email + procmail | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp | except that i'm afraid of procmail :) | 10:32 |
| pwnguin | sure | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp | terribly afraid | 10:32 |
| pwnguin | or even just a simple filter rule | 10:32 |
| pwnguin | imap handles the rss spec fairly well | 10:33 |
| pwnguin | title->subject | 10:33 |
| pwnguin | enclosure->attachment | 10:33 |
| pwnguin | GUID-> ..... X-GUID | 10:34 |
| pwnguin | i wonder how google feed reader works | 10:36 |
| jiajia | how to make video call by n900 | 10:37 |
| timeless_mbp | jiajia: out of the box, you can't | 10:37 |
| jiajia | timeless_mbp: so there is no way i can do it | 10:37 |
| timeless_mbp | you can use a third party app or wait for an upgrade | 10:37 |
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| Livingroom | o hai | 10:37 |
| timeless_mbp | s/upgrade/update/ | 10:37 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: you can use a third party app or wait for an update | 10:37 |
| jiajia | timeless_mbp: okey thanks man | 10:37 |
| Livingroom | guys, video chat? from n800 to desktop. the googles do nothing. help me out here? | 10:38 |
| jiajia | Livingroom: wait for the third party | 10:39 |
| johnx | gizmo | 10:39 |
| Livingroom | jiajia what? | 10:39 |
| timeless_mbp | Livingroom: historically you could use gizmo | 10:39 |
| Livingroom | wasnt gizmo bought by gtalk though? | 10:39 |
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| chris231989 | i upgraded from n770 to n810 last night!! :) | 10:39 |
| timeless_mbp | gtalk isn't a company | 10:39 |
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| Livingroom | well, google | 10:40 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 10:40 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, and yet the gtalk guys probably have a bigger budget than my whole company O_o; | 10:40 |
| ruskie | johnx, hmm so you have a user password setup on the n900? and you tried rebooting etc and it all worked? | 10:40 |
| johnx | ruskie, yeah. been working since oct 9th or so that way | 10:40 |
| ruskie | johnx, touched the user shell any? | 10:41 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: what asks for the password? | 10:41 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, ssh | 10:41 |
| timeless_mbp | but not the ui? | 10:41 |
| johnx | of course not | 10:41 |
| johnx | otherwise, it would fail horribly :) | 10:41 |
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| johnx | ruskie, as in, switched to bash? nah | 10:41 |
| ruskie | johnx, well if you ever get the inclination don't :) | 10:42 |
| ruskie | apparently in doesn't like a different shell there | 10:42 |
| johnx | yeah, that fails pretty badly | 10:42 |
| johnx | knew that from a long time back :) | 10:42 |
| ruskie | ahh | 10:42 |
| pwnguin | how'd you change the shell? | 10:42 |
| ruskie | only learned that after 5 or so flashes | 10:42 |
| pwnguin | symlink or chsh? | 10:42 |
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| ruskie | I just made a zsh terminal desktop file :) | 10:43 |
| ruskie | and use that instead of the regular one | 10:43 |
| johnx | good call :) | 10:43 |
| ruskie | of course I loose the new terminal functionality | 10:43 |
| ruskie | since that keeps calling the old one | 10:43 |
| timeless_mbp | loose => lose | 10:43 |
| johnx | yeah, loose is definitely at least as good as lose :) | 10:43 |
| Livingroom | so, guessing no video chat then | 10:44 |
| johnx | Livingroom, on the N800? | 10:44 |
| timeless_mbp | Livingroom: it's possible, but if you're lazy, you'll wait | 10:44 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc new accounts is disabled for gizmo | 10:44 |
| Livingroom | i'm moderately lazy | 10:44 |
| johnx | whoa. no new gizmo accounts | 10:45 |
| johnx | bummer | 10:45 |
| johnx | uhm, sip video works, right? | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | the trick there is finding a compatible desktop client | 10:45 |
| pwnguin | ekiga? | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia had but i believe dropped a beta | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | pwnguin: it's the codec not the transport | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | .. that's the problem | 10:46 |
| Livingroom | whats the codec? | 10:47 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 10:47 | |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | which makes me remember m. deboer was about to consider adding video to twinkle some q.tyears ago. Should ask what's his decision on that | 10:48 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | err s/q.t/1.5 | 10:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | Livingroom: the codec has to be same and is negotiated between both parties. Or was that "what's *A* codec"? | 10:50 |
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| Livingroom | doc: it was whats *the* codec as in h.264 or whatever | 10:52 |
| Markus23 | Which n900 accessories are must-have? | 10:52 |
| Markus23 | I have protective foil and battery loading cable for car | 10:52 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm, seems it depends | 10:52 |
| pwnguin | usually h.263, but who knows what nokia picked to include | 10:53 |
| JosefAssad | anyone using qemacs here? I'm running qemacs with --font-size from xterm but it isn't changing the font size | 10:53 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | nokia? where? | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | err, does that dialer... o.O | 10:54 |
| pwnguin | or whoever's responsible for SIP | 10:54 |
| Markus23 | are there holder for bicycle and/or car? | 10:55 |
| Markus23 | battery loading for bicycle would be great (with dynamo) | 10:55 |
| ruskie | hmm I wasn't aware that the jog dial for sound also changes font sizes in terminal | 10:55 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | pwnguin: SIP doesn't suggest any particular codec | 10:55 |
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| pwnguin | DocScrutinizer-8: the SIP app on this n900 phone, sorr | 10:55 |
| pwnguin | y | 10:55 |
| Markus23 | http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=6877937 | 10:56 |
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| Markus23 | this is cool.. | 10:56 |
| Markus23 | how many percents would 2 AA batteries load the N900 up? | 10:56 |
| Markus23 | not much, or? | 10:56 |
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| pwnguin | well, there's transmission and conversion loss | 10:57 |
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| pwnguin | but batteries are rated in mAh | 10:57 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | pwnguin: create a dialog (make a call) between two N900 and trace with wireshark. it will tell you what codecs are offered in sip | 10:57 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | in SIP SDP even | 10:57 |
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| pwnguin | i dont have a wireshark wifi mitm setup | 10:58 |
| pwnguin | or a 2nd phone :P | 10:58 |
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| johnx | heh, or just call your desktop running ekiga and flip through ekiga's settings to disable/enable codecs | 10:58 |
| Markus23 | pwnguin: dont find any mAh value on my batteries | 10:59 |
| pwnguin | Markus23: you can usually find that info from the manufacturer | 10:59 |
| pwnguin | lemme go grab some energizer rechargables | 10:59 |
| johnx | alkaline AAs don't usually have an mAh rating | 10:59 |
| johnx | on rechargeables it's between 1500 and 2000 or so most of the time (I think) | 11:00 |
| Markus23 | and whats the mAh of the n900 with the included akku? | 11:00 |
| pwnguin | my rechargables claim 2500mAh | 11:00 |
| pwnguin | Markus23: you could open the case and find out, it's listed right on the battery ;) | 11:01 |
| pwnguin | or look up the part number | 11:01 |
| Markus23 | my akku of my laptop has only 4400 mAh, can't really believe that a AA has 2500 mAh | 11:01 |
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| pwnguin | i dont understand this phrase akku | 11:02 |
| guaqua | akku == rechargeable battery | 11:02 |
| Markus23 | about 1350 mAh in n900? | 11:02 |
| pwnguin | guaqua: how did that come about? | 11:02 |
| guaqua | in finnish and german, at least | 11:03 |
| Markus23 | akku may be german, is accu better understandable? | 11:03 |
| guaqua | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accumulator | 11:03 |
| guaqua | "an apparatus for storing energy or power" | 11:03 |
| Markus23 | dynamo of bicycle seems not to be suitable to load n900 | 11:03 |
| Markus23 | the voltage varies too greatly | 11:04 |
| pwnguin | no duh | 11:04 |
| Markus23 | (but have not tested) | 11:04 |
| pwnguin | you might be able to voltage regulate it | 11:04 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | Markus23: US it's all just battery. and your laptop battery has most likely 10 times the voltage of a single AA cell | 11:04 |
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| pwnguin | Markus23: my duracell alkalines are rated 1500mAh | 11:06 |
| pwnguin | for comparison. rechargables are lower voltage though, 1.2V vs 1.5 | 11:06 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | pwnguin: Markus23 please be *extremely* careful with DIY for USB chargers. USB is rated like max 6V, and usually doesn't take higher surges without bbq the device | 11:06 |
| pwnguin | DocScrutinizer-8: oh, im not crazy enough to try it | 11:07 |
| antezz | you guys are stil here :o | 11:07 |
| pwnguin | DocScrutinizer-8: plus its like 39F here. biking is not an option during the winter | 11:08 |
| Markus23 | ok, so the only option is to have a n900 accu on reserve | 11:09 |
| Vratha_ | man, i don't know what my ISP is doing, but i like it | 11:09 |
| * DocScrutinizer-8 watching like 50mm snowflakes. Hates snow and cold | 11:09 | |
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| Markus23 | is it possible to use a 1500mAh accu for n900? | 11:09 |
| Vratha | i'm getting speeds of 115 - 120 Mbps now | 11:09 |
| Markus23 | or is there a hardware reason that nokia put the 1350 mAh in it? | 11:10 |
| Vratha | i guess they couldn't let that little town in Waterloo, IA beat them :) | 11:10 |
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| pwnguin | Markus23: professional built systems can probably regulate the surges with diodes, capacitors and whatnot | 11:10 |
| guaqua | Markus23: could be, could be just a space reason | 11:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | pwnguin: not that easy. please do not even mention this to non EE persons | 11:12 |
| pwnguin | heh | 11:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | it's a sure way to kill a usb-powered device | 11:12 |
| pwnguin | DocScrutinizer-8: by professional i mean, built and manufactured by EEs | 11:12 |
| pwnguin | not etsy | 11:13 |
| guaqua | an extra battery unit would be nice to have | 11:13 |
| guaqua | with capacity to enable maybe 2-3 extra days | 11:13 |
| Markus23 | there are voltage stabilizer directly in one "chip" | 11:13 |
| Markus23 | you don't have to do the circuit yourself | 11:14 |
| Markus23 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_stabilizer | 11:14 |
| ruskie | I thought it was the voltage that kills the device... not the current since the current is just what can be drawn | 11:14 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | we killed quite some FR with "professional" carchargers "made in China". Start motor -> Freerunner fried | 11:14 |
| ruskie | on a side note I have a mintyboost and used it to charge various usb devices and even the n95 | 11:14 |
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| pwnguin | Markus23: lets just say what you're attempting to do is a warranty voiding manuver | 11:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | ruskie: absolutely correct | 11:15 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer-8, most car chalcgers I've heard about say: do not have it plugged in when starting | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ruskie: though for USB2 chargers not even that is completely true | 11:15 |
| pwnguin | Markus23: zener diodes can fail given sufficiently out of range voltage | 11:15 |
| ruskie | I wonder if the mintyboost will even be able to charge the n900 | 11:16 |
| ruskie | since it only outputs 100mAh constant | 11:16 |
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| ruskie | I'll have to give it a try | 11:17 |
| ruskie | erm mA even | 11:17 |
| ruskie | sans the h | 11:17 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ruskie: will take ages if it charges at all | 11:17 |
| ruskie | gah still to early | 11:17 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer-8, well supposedly it's more efficient than some of the 500mA or so chargers | 11:18 |
| ruskie | I'll have to give it a try | 11:18 |
| pwnguin | ruskie: what version do you have? | 11:18 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ruskie: more efficient??? | 11:18 |
| ruskie | pwnguin, v2 | 11:18 |
| pwnguin | http://www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.jsp?navId=H0,C1,C1003,C1042,C1031,C1060,P1029 | 11:18 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer-8, less wasted power | 11:19 |
| pwnguin | # 5V at 600mA or 12V at 120mA from 2-Cell Supply | 11:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | ruskie: the device itself may waste >100mA while charging | 11:19 |
| ruskie | erm v1.2 even | 11:20 |
| Markus23 | any other accessories besides power related which are worth giving a thought? | 11:20 |
| ruskie | Nearly all USB-charging devices and any device that charges with 5V power (up to 250mA+ 400mA+ with v2.0 of the kit) can be used. <-- hmmm ok so I might be wrong on that one | 11:21 |
| Markus23 | and I don't mean a telescope *lol* http://shop.brando.com/nokia-n97-mobile-phone-telescope_p03569c1059d009.html | 11:21 |
| pwnguin | nuts, i was gonna mention it | 11:21 |
| pwnguin | bluetooth keyboard? | 11:21 |
| * ruskie is testing how long his n900 will last while running xmms2 | 11:22 | |
| Markus23 | mmh, with the keyboard you loose a lot of mobility features :-) | 11:23 |
| Markus23 | I think I will prefer vnc | 11:23 |
| ruskie | lol | 11:23 |
| * ruskie waits for a N900 keyboard with dock | 11:23 | |
| Markus23 | or have to live with the keyboard of N900 | 11:23 |
| Markus23 | (when not at home) | 11:23 |
| ruskie | something like: | 11:23 |
| ruskie | ###+++### | 11:24 |
| ruskie | ######### | 11:24 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Markus23: OMG! A penis extension for a mobile phone! | 11:24 |
| pupnik | thinkoutside stowaway is nice | 11:24 |
| ruskie | whece the +++ is the n900 snugled in | 11:24 |
| ruskie | and the rest a keyboard | 11:24 |
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| ruskie | and in shuld actually lock it in place | 11:24 |
| pupnik | cool ruskie | 11:24 |
| pwnguin | ruskie: how bout a full on KVM via usb? | 11:24 |
| pupnik | and power it | 11:24 |
| ruskie | pupnik, yeah that should be in as well :) | 11:25 |
| ruskie | pwnguin, I just like to dream | 11:25 |
| pwnguin | ive been thinking about building a car doc | 11:25 |
| ruskie | but something like a 6" sized tablet could be used as a base design | 11:25 |
| pwnguin | ive seen a few people build carputers for my model of car | 11:25 |
| pwnguin | normally they put a screen on the dash and route it to a glovebox or trunk | 11:26 |
| Markus23 | is this a good review? http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-maemo5-en.shtml#content | 11:27 |
| pupnik | > http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/fha-loans-the-choice-of-housing-comrades-how-government-backed-loans-are-creating-another-problem-for-the-housing-market/ | 11:28 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | waaah. mildew all over the pavement | 11:28 |
| pupnik | ow pastefail | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: second political pastefail in the last 2 days :P | 11:29 |
| pupnik | ruskie: seen konttoris project for a game xontrolleer shell for n900 | 11:29 |
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| pupnik | this is econ | 11:30 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | shibby dibby doodah | 11:30 |
| pwnguin | Markus23: it mentions the n920, which afaik is a fake | 11:31 |
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| Markus23 | pwnguin: ok, good to know | 11:32 |
| Vratha | i'm hopin' they get portrait mode working for most of their stuff soon (without a hack) | 11:33 |
| kynky | from the rumor mill i thought nokia where only launching 1 maemo device next year, rumored to be a device with no keyboard and 8mp camera? | 11:33 |
| Vratha | the phone would be a lot more usable in one hand that way | 11:33 |
| pwnguin | oh, and the number of openGL ES programs available can be counted on one finger | 11:33 |
| kynky | Vratha, thought they were working on that, browser working in portrait for example | 11:34 |
| Markus23 | pwnguin: this bounce application + quake 3 | 11:34 |
| Markus23 | cant be counted on one finger *fg* | 11:34 |
| Vratha | kynky: that's what i've heard. i hope they get most of the apps done | 11:34 |
| pwnguin | is quake3 available? | 11:34 |
| kynky | openarena , duke nukem | 11:34 |
| kynky | i played q3a already on n900 | 11:34 |
| Vratha | i just want prboom | 11:35 |
| Markus23 | pwnguin: i have seen a video of it, don't know of repository | 11:35 |
| kynky | its in extras-devel , i have put q3a data files on fat32 partition and symlinked | 11:35 |
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| Markus23 | seems like repartioning the device isn't very common? | 11:36 |
| kynky | nope, but guides are out there | 11:37 |
| pupnik | tech review qt6 declarative UI http://zchydem.enume.net/?p=128 | 11:37 |
| pupnik | pastewin | 11:37 |
| kynky | the easiest 1 i guess is the swap ext3 and fat32 patitions over | 11:37 |
| Markus23 | without hardware keyboard: don't you have a problem that every application must support of input or at least resizing (so that virtual keyboard can be showed at the same time) | 11:38 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I'd happily zap my entire disk over to ext3... connecting via USB is a pain in the arse | 11:39 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | pwnguin: you're looking for "OpenArena" | 11:39 |
| kynky | q3a texxtures look better than openarena | 11:39 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:39 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | OpenArena does look a bit arse, kynky | 11:40 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | But, by god, it's open... and an arena | 11:40 |
| pupnik | can we get hardware codes of keys pressed in sdl | 11:40 |
| kynky | yep | 11:40 |
| pupnik | i want to ignore language layout | 11:41 |
| kynky | to Gadgetoid :) | 11:41 |
| kynky | but on sceen kb problem def been solved in industry | 11:41 |
| Vratha | Markus23: GUI frameworks take care of problems like that | 11:43 |
| Vratha | alright, i'm off to bed | 11:43 |
| Vratha | later | 11:43 |
| nezb | night | 11:43 |
| Markus23 | night | 11:43 |
| kynky | nn | 11:43 |
| Markus23 | GUI frameworks can't guarantee that you can make the application endless small | 11:44 |
| Markus23 | and full screen applications, e.g. q3a may not even allow to show the virtual keyboard | 11:44 |
| Markus23 | so, I don't think it was a bad decision to have a keyboard | 11:45 |
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| kynky | well if apple, ms, sony and samsung can sort out problem, sure nokia can | 11:45 |
| kynky | i wanted a kb, some other ppl prefer thinner devices | 11:45 |
| Markus23 | kynky: they don't use open source software, all applications there are developed from scratch | 11:45 |
| Markus23 | *then* it is no problem | 11:46 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I've learned my lesson from the iPhone... even the best on-screen keyboards suck | 11:46 |
| nezb | really? I like the onscreen keyboard on the iPhone a lot | 11:46 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | It hates me | 11:46 |
| kynky | Markus23, nokia have a lot of say on the ui design, its not just left to linux community | 11:46 |
| nezb | imho it rivals the physical keyboard of the N900 | 11:46 |
| nezb | but I have small fingers | 11:46 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Only I can't use my own personal turns of phrase and weirdness without the iPhone ruthlessly correcting it to utter nonsens | 11:47 |
| nezb | turn off autocorrect? | 11:47 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | No need, I gave my iPhone away | 11:47 |
| pupnik | http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/mortgage-electronic-registration-systems-mers-a-system-designed-to-create-the-mortgage-back-security-bubble | 11:48 |
| Markus23 | kynky: if I want to use, lets say unison on my n900: the ui design guidelines of nokia are certainly not implemented there :-) | 11:48 |
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| kynky | n900 still in development phase , maemo6 is supposed to be final i thought | 11:48 |
| Markus23 | kynky: software is never final :-) | 11:49 |
| arachnist | if maemo6 is not going to work on n900 or will be limited in some bad way... i just hope that the next device will have a keyboard | 11:50 |
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| Markus23 | hardware could be (except of some optimizations), but it won't be because then you can't sell anything | 11:50 |
| kynky | maemo6 will add capacitive screen input method | 11:50 |
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| Markus23 | kynky: and multi touch also? | 11:51 |
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| kynky | exactly | 11:51 |
| arachnist | capacitive? capacitive screens are bad - can't use them in hand gloves | 11:51 |
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| Markus23 | arachnist: is it possible to use n900 with hand gloves? | 11:51 |
| arachnist | Markus23: it's possible to at least dial a number or select a number from the list in the phone app | 11:52 |
| Markus23 | cool :-) | 11:52 |
| arachnist | Markus23: the on-screen keyboard also works well | 11:52 |
| kynky | n900 is resistive, so yes, also use stylus on resistive but not capacitive, but they are developing capactive stylus | 11:53 |
| Markus23 | arachnist: so receiving a call is no problem too? | 11:53 |
| arachnist | Markus23: yup | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | kynky: there's no such thing like a decent c-stylus | 11:54 |
| arachnist | i thought that nokia would use the recently-patented resistive multi-touch screen | 11:54 |
| arachnist | (patented by them) | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | pfff, I designed this years ago. really don't think they got a patent on it. prior art you know | 11:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | won't stop them to use such a r-ts with multitouch | 11:56 |
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| *** jaem|away is now known as jaem | 12:00 | |
| jaem | blargh | 12:01 |
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| jaem | er... I mean... morning, #maemo | 12:01 |
| ruskie | lol | 12:01 |
| jaem | just FYI, if anyone is planning on downloading Qole's Easy Debian image, I'll probably be mirroring it somewhere faster for him tomorrow | 12:02 |
| Markus23 | jaem: what is the "Qole's Easy Debian image"? | 12:03 |
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| jaem | Markus23, it's a disk image that allows you to run stock Debian apps on Maemo | 12:04 |
| jaem | e.g. OpenOffice/GIMP/etc | 12:04 |
| Markus23 | jaem: additionally or only that? | 12:04 |
| jaem | they don't all run *well*, mind you, but they will run | 12:04 |
| jaem | Markus23, additionally | 12:04 |
| jaem | it mounts the disk image, and runs the apps from within it | 12:04 |
| Markus23 | cool, will take a look at it then | 12:05 |
| jaem | it doesn't replace Maemo | 12:05 |
| jaem | Qole is the guy who wrote the scripts to manage it, and packaged it up nicely | 12:05 |
| jaem | his hosting is cheap, but not particularly fast, and my friend and I have bits to spare on our server, which has a 35Mbps upload | 12:05 |
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| jaem | I always feel vicarious guilt when downloading something from a slow server, and that makes me feel obligated to seed/mirror/whatever the file to help others | 12:06 |
| jaem | lol | 12:06 |
| jaem | it's not *that* bad, in this case | 12:07 |
| jaem | just slower than I'm used to | 12:07 |
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| jaem | Om nom nom shortbread | 12:08 |
| * jaem got a care package from his mom to take back to uni :) | 12:08 | |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, -poke- | 12:08 |
| Markus23 | jaem: are there resources about the "Qole's Easy Debian image"? | 12:09 |
| Markus23 | only find things about N810 | 12:10 |
| jaem | Markus23, it's in the testing or devel repo for Maemo 5 (can't remember which), so it might eat your hamster, but it worksforme | 12:10 |
| Markus23 | It is also possible to run android applications? http://www.unwiredview.com/2008/07/03/how-to-run-android-on-your-nokia-n810-easy/ | 12:11 |
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| Markus23 | jaem: its not the first thing I will try with my n900, but I will definetive give it a try | 12:11 |
| jaem | Markus23, do you have your N900 yet? | 12:12 |
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| Markus23 | jaem: yes, but did not open it, will go on holidays today and won't take a handy with me | 12:16 |
| jaem | ah... have fun, then :) | 12:16 |
| Markus23 | around christmas I will try it intensively :-) | 12:17 |
| jaem | heh... my family had a mini-Christmas today | 12:17 |
| jaem | and the normal Christmas will be a Second Christmas | 12:17 |
| jaem | fun fun fun | 12:18 |
| jaem | Markus23, where are you going for your holiday? | 12:18 |
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| Markus23 | jaem: not far away, skiing in styria, I live in vienna | 12:19 |
| ale-x | hallo! | 12:19 |
| Markus23 | sers :-) | 12:19 |
| jaem | Markus23, neat! | 12:20 |
| jaem | do you get much snow there at this time of year? | 12:20 |
| ale-x | luckily not! | 12:20 |
| Markus23 | didn't heard of it yet | 12:21 |
| antezz | no christmas without snow... | 12:21 |
| jaem | ah... I'm near Vancouver, but my uni is on a large hill/small mountain, so we usually get a bit | 12:21 |
| Markus23 | christmas is always without snow here | 12:21 |
| antezz | not here :) | 12:22 |
| jaem | the joke is that our campus has three seasons: 2 weeks of Winter, 1 month of Summer, and the rest is Rain | 12:22 |
| Markus23 | I think the last 5 years there was snow before and at silvester, but not christmas | 12:22 |
| jaem | we usually get at least one big dump of snow that strands half the students, because the buses don't have proper snow tires | 12:22 |
| antezz | haha | 12:22 |
| jaem | there's some talk about putting a gondola up to the campus :) | 12:22 |
| jaem | that would be pretty epic, but I don't know if it's the best use of money | 12:23 |
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| asidjazz | and THEN WERE GONNA FIIIIIIIIND OUR BEST FRIEND DOUG | 12:42 |
| asidjazz | AND WERE GONNA GIVE HIM A BEST FRIEND HUUUUUG | 12:42 |
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| bobbyd | hi | 12:47 |
| antezz | hi | 12:47 |
| bobbyd | irssi on my n900 :) | 12:48 |
| antezz | same :) | 12:48 |
| bobbyd | :) | 12:48 |
| jiajia | how do to that guys' | 12:48 |
| jiajia | i have n900 how to log in irc by that | 12:48 |
| antezz | install irssi on it | 12:48 |
| bobbyd | have you tried the irc account plugin yet? | 12:49 |
| jiajia | from the terminal | 12:49 |
| kynky | via extras-devel (obligatort extras-devel warning too) | 12:49 |
| jiajia | nice | 12:49 |
| kynky | telepathy-idle | 12:49 |
| jaem | bobbyd, I did | 12:49 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | the idle plugin sucks =/ | 12:49 |
| jaem | I couldn't actually get it to work properly, but that might have just been me | 12:49 |
| antezz | its working fine for me | 12:49 |
| antezz | just install irssi and not the -dev one | 12:50 |
| jaem | Gadgetoid_iMac, I think it's mainly that the telepathy-based chat that comes with Maemo is not suited to IRC nearly as much as single-user IM | 12:50 |
| jaem | I don't think it's bad in and of itself - just not the best solution | 12:50 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | jaem: okay, to be fair the plugin itself is fine, it's just massively out of place and almost entirely useless | 12:50 |
| kynky | irssi is pretty damn good | 12:50 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Unless people message you a lot | 12:51 |
| jaem | Gadgetoid_iMac, agreed ;) | 12:51 |
| jaem | well said | 12:51 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Anyhoo, hitting the city for some christmas shopping, woohaw | 12:51 |
| jaem | Gadgetoid_iMac, woot - have fun | 12:52 |
| antezz | buy gifts to me also! | 12:52 |
| bobbyd | btw is there a way to select multiple things to install through the gui application manager then install them all in one go? | 12:52 |
| jaem | bobbyd, unfortunately not | 12:52 |
| antezz | i miss that to | 12:52 |
| jaem | I was bugging them about that last year, but I don't think it was a priority | 12:53 |
| kynky | there is always apt-get, or u could create a meta package | 12:53 |
| jaem | bobbyd, installing in the console is usually reasonably simple, though | 12:53 |
| jaem | although it's not for everyone | 12:53 |
| bobbyd | it's just the refresh time that's annoying | 12:53 |
| antezz | terminal ftw | 12:53 |
| * jaem nods | 12:53 | |
| bobbyd | yep | 12:54 |
| jaem | to both comments | 12:54 |
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| * jaem wants a Maemo app like Yakuake | 12:54 | |
| wazd | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=414632#post414632 öðôå åðó àãñë øû åðôå Ø öùòâóê | 12:55 |
| wazd | damn | 12:55 |
| wazd | what the hell is that I wonder | 12:55 |
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| antezz | to much to read :o | 12:57 |
| bobbyd | anyone else getting a size mismatch error when trying to install openvpn? | 12:57 |
| antezz | im sleepy =) | 12:57 |
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| antezz | havent tryd | 12:57 |
| antezz | anyone got greasemonkey to work? | 12:58 |
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| jaem | antezz, installed (I think) but haven't tried it yet | 12:59 |
| antezz | i installed it several times havent shown up | 12:59 |
| antezz | tried reboot the phone several times after same result | 13:00 |
| antezz | i miss my userscripts :( | 13:00 |
| kynky | although i guess there is greasemonkey for fennec too | 13:00 |
| antezz | i dont like that browser atm. makes the pages looks wierd | 13:01 |
| * ruskie only tried fennec and didn't much like it | 13:01 | |
| antezz | for an exampel text was huge and forms was small | 13:01 |
| antezz | so "username" was big put a small input | 13:02 |
| antezz | also i couldnt figur out how to zoom nicley :) | 13:02 |
| ManuelSE | phone consumers make boring forum posts | 13:03 |
| antezz | i like the default browser for now on till fennec gets some updates | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: on the other hand, the combination of ideas and proposals often end up in a better product.. | 13:03 |
| antezz | haha what kind of posts? | 13:03 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: on the other hand they can at least ask me | 13:03 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: i'm almost willing to bet they would have if you had been in bcn :/ | 13:04 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: seriously, Maemo has TONS of software to improve and they are chosing the one that I'm working at already | 13:05 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: do you see any sign of sense here? | 13:06 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: well, it was a choice by tomaszd and the author, so, but yes, it's a bit redundant | 13:06 |
| Stskeeps | maybe your work served as foundation for discussions? i didn't read it too closely | 13:07 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: either way, this just points to the need for some people to coordinate ui efforts in community | 13:08 |
| * w00t agrees | 13:08 | |
| Stskeeps | wazd: cos right now a lot of effort is going in but it's very unfocused and often people end up doing same things over and over again | 13:08 |
| w00t | as witnessed right here | 13:08 |
| ManuelSE | nice job xchat porter person! I am liking commands in pm window | 13:08 |
| w00t | and there is certainly plenty of UI work going around | 13:09 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: well, there are lots of people willing to do this | 13:09 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: joshua.maverick and stuff :) | 13:09 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: yeah.. and they try and try and give up in the end cos the work isn't really structured | 13:10 |
| ManuelSE | is xchat a good example of the barriers in maemo concept | 13:10 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i'm frankly amazed you haven't gone insane just yet :) | 13:10 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: I'm doing just fine somehow :) | 13:10 |
| Stskeeps | maybe because you are already insane? :p | 13:10 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: cause it's much simplier that it looks like | 13:10 |
| ManuelSE | the linux software stack is not very rich field for end user phone application! | 13:10 |
| jaem | Stskeeps, that's the way to do it :P | 13:10 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: you find the project that looks awful, you help it | 13:11 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: if it still looks awful after your help - another designer will find it soon | 13:11 |
| jaem | Stskeeps, was that you that was discussing dpkg-divert at some point on #mer? (Or at least, do you know how to use it?) | 13:11 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: no wiki's, mailing lists, waves and stuff :) | 13:11 |
| ManuelSE | move to qt also limits interest in maemo5 | 13:12 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: the downside of that is that the most popular apps will be getting attention and the not so popular won't | 13:12 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: but you're right | 13:12 |
| go1dfish | ManuelSE: gui wise no it isnt | 13:12 |
| go1dfish | ManuelSE: functionality wise, yeah it is | 13:12 |
| w00t | the other downside there is that there's no coordination between people - so they might not realise that someone else is already working on that ugly application | 13:12 |
| go1dfish | but most likely, any software stack you take and port to a phone is going to require a UI overhall regardless | 13:12 |
| ManuelSE | yes goldfish, so look at xchat. is it more work to fix xchat for maemo5 or write a new app? | 13:13 |
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| go1dfish | not sure I don't use xchat | 13:13 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: well, for the less popular apps "asking" for a help is a good way to get help | 13:13 |
| go1dfish | but it's quite easy to get irssi running on maemo5 heh | 13:13 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: we even have design section now | 13:13 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: yeah, a brilliant idea | 13:13 |
| go1dfish | I'd lean towards something new for xchat I think, because I think a standard irc client's network behavior will eat battery like no tomorrow | 13:13 |
| go1dfish | I think you'd almost have to do some proxy to make it acceptable from a battery use perspective | 13:14 |
| go1dfish | (to be able to idle all day that is) | 13:14 |
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| go1dfish | ManuelSE: given the variety of irc libraries and bindings available in the linux system, I think it would probably be easier to develop something new | 13:15 |
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| go1dfish | for this particular example, but thats more of a shot in the dark than anything, I'm not aware of the exact UI issues with xchat on the n900, cause I haven't used xchat for years | 13:15 |
| ManuelSE | ok i am looking at other gtk apps and it takes also a lot of time to learn the code | 13:16 |
| go1dfish | ManuelSE: and yeah, the move to qt add's a lot of uncertainty | 13:16 |
| go1dfish | honestly I think nokia is a bit confused on this, they are touting the benefits of qt... | 13:17 |
| w00t | how? | 13:17 |
| go1dfish | and then trying to get developers to build for gtk+ now | 13:17 |
| w00t | (does it add uncertainty) | 13:17 |
| kynky | nokia own trolltech | 13:17 |
| go1dfish | w00t: uncertainty in certain developers minds | 13:17 |
| go1dfish | me, I can't wait for the move to qt4 | 13:17 |
| go1dfish | qt4 is a freaking sweet set of libraries | 13:17 |
| go1dfish | from any perspective you want to look at it | 13:17 |
| go1dfish | and IMO, much cleaner than gtk | 13:18 |
| w00t | let's not get onto the religious wars ;-) | 13:18 |
| go1dfish | uncertainty in the sense, that developers dont know to target gtk or qt | 13:18 |
| bobbyd | the midori webkit-based browser seems quite fast, but obviously a bit buggy atm. good start though | 13:18 |
| go1dfish | gtk is deprecated, and we know it will be phased out, or at least less emphasized | 13:18 |
| w00t | well, if I was starting something, it'd be in qt | 13:18 |
| w00t | qt is available *now* | 13:18 |
| go1dfish | and qt isn't quite ready for prime time on maemo yet afaik | 13:18 |
| go1dfish | there are still some UI issues as I understand it | 13:18 |
| w00t | I've not heard of any at least | 13:19 |
| timeless_mbp | jaem: eh | 13:19 |
| go1dfish | but I was impressed at how well it did integrate with the rest of the platform in my quick tests | 13:19 |
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| kynky | what qt issues are there ? | 13:19 |
| go1dfish | but the whole gtk/qt switch adds even more uncertainty from a commercial dev perspective, to what is already seen as a bit of a uncertain platform | 13:19 |
| Markus23 | go1dfish: I dont think it is productive to mark gtk as "depreciated" | 13:20 |
| w00t | I'd suggest subscribing to qt-maemo-feedback | 13:20 |
| go1dfish | maemo is quite a grand experiment, and many people see it still only as an experiment | 13:20 |
| bobbyd | I'd like to have the rocker keys *always* control volume, even when locked | 13:20 |
| w00t | and writing about any concerns you have | 13:20 |
| kynky | gtk is alternative | 13:20 |
| w00t | they're very responsive | 13:20 |
| Markus23 | it will be always necessary to have gtk for some applications: gimp, unison,... | 13:20 |
| jaem | kynde, packaging - namely the fact that there are two versions in the wild, and packages are built for one or the other | 13:20 |
| go1dfish | Markus23: yeah deprecated is probably the wrong word | 13:20 |
| jaem | also a few bits of oddness | 13:20 |
| kynky | nokia are obviously going to push qt now | 13:20 |
| go1dfish | tbh, I got that from someone else in this channel earlier | 13:20 |
| go1dfish | I do not know how nokia officially describes the state of gtk on maemo | 13:20 |
| go1dfish | but I'm sure it will continue to work in some fashion | 13:21 |
| jaem | like the Fremantle Menus prefixing the buttons with the Menu name, e.g. "File/Open", instead of just "Open" like GTK apps | 13:21 |
| go1dfish | just not as preferred as qt4 for maemo5 | 13:21 |
| w00t | I'm sure that someone interested will pick up hildon and run with it | 13:21 |
| go1dfish | err | 13:21 |
| kynky | gnome just seem to be copying windows for ideas :) | 13:21 |
| go1dfish | maemo6 rather | 13:21 |
| Markus23 | ok, the maemo platform may also be repelling for gtk developers when you say their toolkit is deprecated | 13:21 |
| Markus23 | I prefer qt btw. | 13:21 |
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| jaem | kynky, yes, GNOME copies Windows, Compiz is a knock-off of Mac, and Win7 is a knock-off of KDE - *of course*! | 13:21 |
| jaem | no, but seriously, everyone borrows things | 13:22 |
| ale-x | kynky: whoa. don't you think that this is a bit unfair? | 13:22 |
| jaem | and as long as it's not blatant, that's not a bad thing | 13:22 |
| w00t | dammit. I knew this would lead to a religious discussion ;) | 13:22 |
| go1dfish | w00t: heh, sorry | 13:22 |
| kynky | ale-x, i mean the way they do gnome-config and the massive use of mono | 13:22 |
| jaem | GNOME doesn't suit me personally (I quite dislike it), but there's no call to bash it | 13:22 |
| w00t | go1dfish: hehe | 13:22 |
| go1dfish | I used to be a pure gtk guy, from a user perspective | 13:22 |
| go1dfish | gnome user, avoided qt apps etc... | 13:22 |
| ale-x | kynky: massive use of Mono? where? | 13:22 |
| go1dfish | but qt4, holy crap | 13:22 |
| jaem | go1dfish, -grin- | 13:23 |
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| go1dfish | changed my mind quite quickly, but largely because I was developing with it at the time | 13:23 |
| arachnist | speaking of mono... maemo might be a better platform for running .Net apps than winmo | 13:23 |
| w00t | go1dfish: and it's only getting better (c.f. QML, QtAnimation, etcetera) | 13:23 |
| kynky | ale-x , the gut behind gnome, been pushing that, well from his interviews at least | 13:23 |
| arachnist | simply because winmo has only .net CF, and mono implements way more than that | 13:23 |
| go1dfish | I was at the developer event in san jose earlier this month, and during the developer session they were going through some gtk desktop applet demo code... | 13:23 |
| ale-x | kynky: I've been following that discussion a lot | 13:24 |
| jaem | w00t, I was reading the KDE Planet for over a year and a half before I tried coding with Qt, and the reason I did was because the code just *looked* nice to use from the brief snippets I saw on the blogs | 13:24 |
| go1dfish | and all I could thing was, why the fuck would you voluntarily write that, so much boilerplate around (gobject/gtk) | 13:24 |
| ale-x | kynky: but there is, definitely, no massive Mono conspiracy in Gnome | 13:24 |
| jaem | and it is indeed | 13:24 |
| w00t | jaem: yup | 13:24 |
| ale-x | kynky: I know that, because I use Gnome exclusively | 13:24 |
| kynky | ale-x, never said conspiracy :) or implied | 13:24 |
| ale-x | kynky: the Gnome core consists of c, gtk+ and some python | 13:25 |
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| kynky | but i do think gnome-config stuff similar to windows registry, and gnome-moo move is like the windows .net move | 13:25 |
| ale-x | ah, you mean gconf | 13:26 |
| kynky | yep | 13:26 |
| ale-x | but what is gnome-moo? | 13:26 |
| * DocScrutinizer-8 does a uninstall mono -force-depends, and giggles madly | 13:26 | |
| kynky | linux way is /etc | 13:26 |
| kynky | gnome-mono spelling mistake | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | Markus23: um | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | depreciated is an amusing word | 13:26 |
| ale-x | kynky: no, "Linux" way (there is no Linux way) is ~/.* | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll offer a definition for you | 13:27 |
| muep | kynky: /etc is not a proper place for user-specific settings | 13:27 |
| ale-x | btw: Linux is the kernel | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | it means to acknowledge a decrease in value with time | 13:27 |
| Markus23 | the linux way is to use ~/.* but /etc if no user config is available | 13:27 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, yep, and it annoys me when people confuse it with "deprecated" | 13:27 |
| kynky | ale-x, well then gnu way :) but you know what i mean | 13:27 |
| jaem | :P | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | as nokia has spent more money on Qt (by buying it) than they invested in Gtk (by building Maemo) | 13:27 |
| ale-x | and lately ~/.config and ~/.local | 13:27 |
| kynky | system config in /etc | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia has acknowledged a depreciation in value wrt its investment in Gtk | 13:27 |
| jaem | hrm | 13:28 |
| ale-x | and all settings in gconf are storend in XML-files in the user directory | 13:28 |
| jaem | interesting | 13:28 |
| muep | kynky: gconf is actually very nice, and apart from the hierarchical representation of config keys and values, it has quite little similarity with the windows registry | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | now, that's fine and dandy, but it's only a business decision | 13:28 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: here to fan the flames? ;p | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | the word you want as jaem points out is "deprecated" | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | spelling matters | 13:28 |
| kynky | muep, i never said it wasnt nice | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | spell the word correctly or be misinterpreted. | 13:28 |
| kynky | lol | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: just chewing someone out for a flagrant typo | 13:28 |
| muep | kynky: you'd prefer every application to develop their own config file syntax and code to handle it? | 13:28 |
| go1dfish | timeless_mbp: they realized gtk sucked, and all their dev time baning their head against it was sunk costs :) | 13:28 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: hehe | 13:29 |
| kynky | flagrant? | 13:29 |
| ale-x | kynky: I've heard people comparing gconf and registry a lot, but gconf really is only a nice interface to read and set XML-values | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | kynky: artistic license :) | 13:29 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, I actually missed the typo, but my brain assumed its existence XD | 13:29 |
| kynky | muep, i never said that, where did i say that ? | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | lol | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | go1dfish: nope, those were accountants, they did precisely what i described above | 13:29 |
| RST38h | ale-x: well the registry is just a nice way to read and write .ini values | 13:29 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, Artistic License or artistic license? | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | the latter | 13:29 |
| ale-x | haha, sure | 13:29 |
| RST38h | AND THE BOTH SUCK. | 13:29 |
| kynky | RST38h, true :) | 13:30 |
| timeless_mbp | they looked at the amount invested in Maemo and compared it to how much they paid for TrollTech | 13:30 |
| ale-x | the registry is something completely different, RST38h | 13:30 |
| Markus23 | RST38h: no, the windows registry does not use ini | 13:30 |
| timeless_mbp | trolltech cost more, so it must be more valuable :) | 13:30 |
| jaem | Markus23, they were saying it is conceptually similar | 13:30 |
| go1dfish | But would they have bought TrollTech in the first plcae, if gtk didn't suck? | 13:30 |
| RST38h | Markus23: I am sure gconf does not directly use xml files either | 13:30 |
| jaem | just all in one place | 13:30 |
| go1dfish | that's what I'm getting at | 13:30 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: ini files don't really support binary object data | 13:30 |
| ale-x | RST38h: it is meant to drive the whole system | 13:30 |
| kynky | it was replacement for ini, but it was obvious what RST38h was saying | 13:30 |
| timeless_mbp | nor do they support ACLs in any useful form | 13:30 |
| w00t | go1dfish: from my perspective, it's not a matter of sucking or not sucking, but of control | 13:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | nor does it support any useful level of plugability nor auditing | 13:31 |
| * RST38h finds it surprising how much religious value people put into hierarchical data models | 13:31 | |
| w00t | but really, it's a bit offtopic I think | 13:31 |
| timeless_mbp | but if you want to think of the registry as a system for key value pairs | 13:31 |
| ale-x | RST38h: you are sure? how can you be? | 13:31 |
| w00t | RST38h: people have to find something to keep themselves amused. | 13:31 |
| timeless_mbp | that's not entirely wrong, it's just overlooking everything else it does | 13:31 |
| Markus23 | timeless_mbp: why not? there is always and similar techniques | 13:31 |
| timeless_mbp | Markus23: ?? | 13:31 |
| go1dfish | w00t: what could be more on topic in #maemo than a discussion of the design of maemo? | 13:31 |
| jaem | night folks | 13:31 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders which thread/context Markus23 has in mind | 13:32 | |
| w00t | go1dfish: there's a difference between the design of maemo and saying "x sucks, y doesn't" | 13:32 |
| Markus23 | timeless_mbp: "(12:30:41) timeless_mbp: RST38h: ini files don't really support binary object data" | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | go1dfish: we have #maemo-ui and others now :) | 13:32 |
| petteri | any tips on how to see if n900 screen is blank. Maybe with hal or something? | 13:32 |
| go1dfish | w00t: you're right I'm oversimplifying | 13:32 |
| w00t | one is constructive, the other isn't | 13:32 |
| jaem | petteri, look at it? | 13:32 |
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| jaem | :P | 13:32 |
| petteri | jaem: from the device :D | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | Markus23: please try to write in proper English | 13:32 |
| Markus23 | ok | 13:33 |
| * timeless_mbp can't parse Markus23 's thought | 13:33 | |
| jaem | petteri, put a mirror in front of the webcame/screen? | 13:33 |
| ale-x | RST38h: you got a Gnome system to check for your "no xml files" theory? | 13:33 |
| go1dfish | but the point I was trying to make to timeless_mbp, is that though there was certainly an accountant decision afterwards (the depreciation) the purchase wouldn't have happened in the first place without the technical impetetus for switching to qt4 (loosely described by me as gtk sucking) | 13:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | "always" is almost certainly not the word he wanted | 13:33 |
| Markus23 | timeless_mbp: you said that there is a problem in storing binary data in ini, but it is not, or not more then e.g. xml | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | go1dfish: wrong | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | there was a toolkit sucking | 13:33 |
| w00t | hildon, hehe. | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | but it wasn't Gtk/Maemo/Hildon | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | it was Symbian | 13:33 |
| w00t | aww | 13:34 |
| timeless_mbp | and Nokia was fairly public in explaining this | 13:34 |
| Markus23 | what is the configuration format of the maemo default applications? | 13:34 |
| go1dfish | exactly.... | 13:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | adopting Qt in Maemo was purely business | 13:34 |
| timeless_mbp | Markus23: "gconf" | 13:34 |
| RST38h | ale-x: well I have seen the xml files, but always thought that they are cached in memory or some data file at runtime | 13:34 |
| go1dfish | gtk sucks in comparison to qt in the arena of cross platform compatibility | 13:34 |
| petteri | jaem: :P I am trying to do a hook what does someting, like puts my jabber account on away, when the device is not used | 13:34 |
| go1dfish | if gtk was as well suited to cross platform development as qt.... | 13:34 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: I still think there was an element of wanting control there, too | 13:35 |
| go1dfish | the acquisition/switch to qt would not be needed | 13:35 |
| go1dfish | and gtk would be ported to s60 | 13:35 |
| jaem | petteri, I know, I'm just bugging you because I'm bored :P Maybe DBus? | 13:35 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: no one inside maemo wanted it | 13:35 |
| jaem | search around on mxr.maemo.org | 13:35 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: *inside*, no | 13:35 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: but inside nokia management, likely | 13:35 |
| go1dfish | decisions made entirely by accountants are doomed to failure IMO | 13:35 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: sure | 13:35 |
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| ale-x | RST38h: of course they are cached | 13:36 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: from their perspective, hildon/gtk was a risk because they didn't control it outright | 13:36 |
| petteri | jaem: i am looking at the lshal output, but can't figure out what indicates that the device is not used. Any tips? | 13:36 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: you don't have to explain this to me | 13:36 |
| go1dfish | w00t: they have some measure of control yes, but as far as licenses are concerned theyve done nothing but further liberalize the qt license | 13:36 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: i'm not explaining, just making sure you understand my thought process | 13:36 |
| jaem | petteri, I'm quickly looking into it now | 13:36 |
| ale-x | RST38h: even Oracle does that | 13:36 |
| jaem | but it's 3am, so I may give up | 13:36 |
| w00t | go1dfish: that is in their interest to do so | 13:36 |
| go1dfish | w00t: certainly | 13:36 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: officially nokia wants people to be able to write to a single (ok, they can't count, but) api | 13:36 |
| go1dfish | and its great to see someone finally realize it | 13:36 |
| timeless_mbp | and move it from one phone platform to another | 13:36 |
| timeless_mbp | the only story they could see for that was in their purchase of Qt | 13:37 |
| w00t | go1dfish: they don't rely on qt licencing to generate revenue, they want more people contributing to help their development platform | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | and making everyone in the company use it | 13:37 |
| go1dfish | w00t: certainly | 13:37 |
| w00t | go1dfish: TT on the other hand, did rely on licencing revenue :) | 13:37 |
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| jaem | timeless_mbp, does mxr run on the same 770 as garage? :/ | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | jaem: no | 13:37 |
| jaem | grr | 13:37 |
| jaem | different one? | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | it runs on dreamhost | 13:37 |
| jaem | :P | 13:37 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: yup | 13:37 |
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| ale-x | RST38h: all I wanted to say, basically, is that Registry has to be there to drive the whole system, whereas gconf wants to provide a nice interface for Gnome developers | 13:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | jaem: doing a full text search on fremantle is mean | 13:38 |
| kynky | i always thought xml was a bit verbose, and should be compressed or whatever(rename of long tagnames via lut) when in memory | 13:38 |
| go1dfish | w00t: I know :) quite well, I actually used the qt dual licensing analogy with a nokia rep to describe a portion of my own company's business model | 13:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | give it a file path constraint and you'll be much happier | 13:38 |
| timeless_mbp | or do an identifier search | 13:38 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, yeah, fair enough... it may be my network playing up a bit too | 13:38 |
| timeless_mbp | nah, /fremantle/ is torture | 13:38 |
| go1dfish | not software though, music so quite different, but close enough to help overcome the finnish language barrier :) | 13:38 |
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| kynky | qt uses tri-licensing now ? | 13:38 |
| jaem | go1dfish, wow, I must be tired... I misread that as "I did a Nokia rap" | 13:39 |
| kynky | lol | 13:39 |
| jaem | that would be interesting | 13:39 |
| timeless_mbp | lol | 13:39 |
| go1dfish | heh, | 13:39 |
| timeless_mbp | jaem: better than "I did a Nokia rep" | 13:39 |
| jaem | Qt5 dance, anyone? | 13:39 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, well, yes | 13:39 |
| go1dfish | jaem: lol | 13:39 |
| go1dfish | the qt4 dance was too damn catchy | 13:39 |
| ale-x | does anyone know why Nokia switches Toolkits? | 13:39 |
| timeless_mbp | ale-x: pay attention? | 13:40 |
| kynky | unless rep was repititon | 13:40 |
| arachnist | ale-x: because they bought qt? | 13:40 |
| jaem | my friend was telling me that they played that at Dev Days in CA, and nobody sang along :( | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | we literally just covered this | 13:40 |
| ale-x | I mean the "official" reason? | 13:40 |
| kynky | trolltech | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | ale-x: i'm pretty sure i stated it | 13:40 |
| go1dfish | it doesn't get much more official than... | 13:40 |
| go1dfish | we just bought this company that builds a toolkit | 13:40 |
| go1dfish | so we're going to switch to using that toolkit | 13:40 |
| arachnist | ale-x: qt is more portable, cleaner and there's no fear of the toolkit dying or getting developed in wrong direction | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | to enable developers to write a program for one platform and use it everywhere | 13:40 |
| jaem | ale-x, hang on - I'll phone up Nokia's CEO and ask -snerk- | 13:40 |
| kynky | qt works on a lot of platforms | 13:41 |
| jaem | kynky, Plan9? | 13:41 |
| jaem | if not, then... *DEALBREAKER* | 13:41 |
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| jaem | :P | 13:41 |
| ale-x | sorry, I was not clear enough: I meant: does anyone know the "official press release" statement?? | 13:41 |
| kynky | lol | 13:41 |
| ale-x | if any | 13:41 |
| arachnist | qt works on linux desktop, windows, osx, symbian and winmo/wince ports are in progress | 13:41 |
| go1dfish | they are trying to position qt4 almost like sun tried to position java | 13:41 |
| jaem | arachnist, not to mention VXWorks, and various Unices | 13:42 |
| go1dfish | and I think that might be a mistake, it's true that your qt4 app will almost certainly 'run' on any platform with a simple recompile | 13:42 |
| jaem | go1dfish, only it wont' stick | 13:42 |
| arachnist | jaem: and QNX :> | 13:42 |
| kynky | qt and hava very different | 13:42 |
| timeless_mbp | ale-x: google site:press.nokia.com? | 13:42 |
| jaem | s/stick/stink/ | 13:42 |
| infobot | jaem meant: go1dfish, only it wont' stink | 13:42 |
| go1dfish | but very naive to imply that no modifications will be needed | 13:42 |
| kynky | java* | 13:42 |
| jaem | arachnist, | 13:42 |
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| jaem | QNX is a Unix, is it not? | 13:42 |
| ale-x | they bought QT while developing GTK+ so there must have been a reason to do so | 13:42 |
| timeless_mbp | go1dfish: sorry, that's too complicated for bean counters | 13:42 |
| jaem | or am I mistaken | 13:42 |
| kynky | easier to buy qt than gtk+ | 13:43 |
| go1dfish | thats not to say there aren't huge benefits from using qt4 for cross platform development, but its not quite that direct | 13:43 |
| arachnist | jaem: i thought that it's not exactly unix | 13:43 |
| Markus23 | qt was "always" positioned as being portable over unix/windows/macosx and embedded devices | 13:43 |
| go1dfish | timeless_mbp: heh so true | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | "I paid 10x as much for X as i did for Y, and it says on the box you can use it everywhere." | 13:43 |
| jaem | arachnist, yeah, you may be right... but it's POSIXy at aleast | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | "What do you mean it isn't that simple? Make it that simple. That's what I'm paying you for." | 13:43 |
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| go1dfish | timeless_mbp: Nokia wouldn't have gone shopping in the first place if gtk could get the job done | 13:43 |
| kynky | windows is POSIXy | 13:43 |
| jaem | arachnist, I haven't used it personally, but they use it in the real-time lab at my uni | 13:43 |
| jaem | kynky, bah | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | go1dfish: i disagree | 13:44 |
| timeless_mbp | the s60/s40 group never really talked to the maemo group | 13:44 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, QNX is Unix like | 13:44 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a 'not unix' | 13:44 |
| ale-x | all I found on that matter was "its talented team will play an important role in accelerating the implementation of Nokia’s software strategy" | 13:45 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, Qnx is Not uniX? | 13:45 |
| ale-x | but that's not really what I wanted to hear | 13:45 |
| timeless_mbp | kynky: eh, windows has a posix subsystem... | 13:45 |
| go1dfish | timeless_mbp: your certainly right there, there wasn't much interaction with maemo/sX0 groups | 13:45 |
| jaem | ale-x, it's a press release - what do you expect? | 13:45 |
| ale-x | jaem: nothing, really | 13:45 |
| jaem | ale-x, you're more likely to get straight answers here than official PR | 13:45 |
| jaem | even given the limits on what can be said | 13:45 |
| kynky | timeless, thats why i reused the POSIXy phrase and didnt say POSIX | 13:46 |
| timeless_mbp | kynky: windows isn't really posixy | 13:46 |
| ale-x | jaem: you know that answer I got: they switch toolkits, because they own trolltech | 13:46 |
| jaem | kynky, "Windows *can be* POSIXy" | 13:46 |
| jaem | ale-x, well, there's validity to that | 13:46 |
| ale-x | jaem: but that's much like a cat biting it's tail | 13:46 |
| go1dfish | QNX is certainly close enough to Unix that QNX devs would be useful on unix/linux systems | 13:46 |
| timeless_mbp | more like the family getting together and the father and the 4 older brothers sitting the little son down | 13:47 |
| Robot101 | windows is not not very posixy in any useful ways, QNX is. | 13:47 |
| jaem | ale-x, well, I doubt it wasn't in their minds in the beginning, but once you own a cross-platform toolkit, using it cross-platform makes sense | 13:47 |
| timeless_mbp | "son, it's time for you to join the family business" | 13:47 |
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| Robot101 | Qt is ported to S60 on top of their posix emulation layer, ensuring great performance, because Symbian isn't *remotely* posixy :) | 13:47 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, there's a guy who heads Nokia India on BBCWorld TV atm | 13:47 |
| timeless_mbp | he's explaining Nokia's future plans | 13:47 |
| ale-x | jaem: that's true | 13:48 |
| go1dfish | they bought trolltech because it's the best toolkit for cross platform development, they've been working embedded linux for at least 7 years, and were already preparing their own phone stack | 13:48 |
| kynky | Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX 3.5 – enables full POSIX compliance for certain Microsoft Windows products. Windows NT-based operating systems up to Windows 2000 had a POSIX layer built into the operating system, and UNIX Services for Windows provided a UNIX-like operating environment. For Windows XP, Windows Services for UNIX must be installed to provide POSIX compatibility. The UNIX Subsystem is built in to the Enterprise and Ultimate editions of Windows | 13:48 |
| kynky | Vista, but cannot be added separately to the other editions. | 13:48 |
| mnk | Hi all, Is there any way to hard reset a N900 without removing battery? | 13:48 |
| go1dfish | the financial motivations would not exist if not for the technical superiority of the qt4 toolkit | 13:48 |
| kynky | hold power button down, twice ? :) | 13:48 |
| timeless_mbp | kynky: there's a difference between being something, being like something, and being able to speak something | 13:48 |
| timeless_mbp | kynky: no | 13:48 |
| jaem | mnk, hit it with a hammer? Aside from that, no, not that I'm aware of | 13:48 |
| timeless_mbp | mnk: define 'hard reset' | 13:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | if you hold power for 10+s while it's unlocked, it should kill itself... | 13:49 |
| jaem | you can reboot it if it's still responsive, but I'm not sure how hard of a reset that is | 13:49 |
| jaem | my guess is, not entirely | 13:49 |
| Anupras | heya :) | 13:49 |
| timeless_mbp | classically hard reset meant wiping the system clean | 13:49 |
| kynky | timeless, very true , just POSIX is well defined, but to me POSIXy isnt | 13:49 |
| lcuk2 | but then they would cal lit bricked | 13:49 |
| timeless_mbp | kynky: so, roughly | 13:49 |
| lcuk2 | call it | 13:49 |
| timeless_mbp | i can speak Spanish | 13:49 |
| timeless_mbp | that doesn't make me Spanish | 13:49 |
| mnk | I'm stuck with 5 balls, second ball slightly larger than the other four. | 13:49 |
| Anupras | guys, where i can get bounce game ? | 13:50 |
| kynky | i think i can understand analogies :) | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | nor does it make me a Spaniard, or like a Spaniard (a Mexican?) | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | the windows posix layer is a way to speak another language | 13:50 |
| lcuk2 | Anupras, b&q sell trampolines, otherwise it should be available from the repositories | 13:50 |
| ale-x | go1dfish: I don't know if "technical superiority" counts here. I mean I've not been developing GTK+ a lot, but I don't think that enhancing it would have been such a problem at all. maybe they really wanted to buy knowledge with the QT developers | 13:50 |
| kynky | i was referring to the extra "y" | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | it doesn't mean that the windows core design is posix | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | nor does it mean that the windows core design resembles posix (posix-y) | 13:50 |
| mnk | And that on the N900 screen I mean :-) | 13:50 |
| go1dfish | ale-x: maybe, trolltech was about to enter into the Phone OS space before they got acquired | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | windows, like me, can speak another language | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | (posix, spanish) | 13:51 |
| go1dfish | and they had been involved in the Zaurus devices for many years | 13:51 |
| ale-x | go1dfish: hmm, good theory | 13:51 |
| jaem | mnk, if it's hanging on boot, you'll have to pull the battery | 13:51 |
| wazd | ok, since my FM radio brain cycles are free now, I can take one more project to my UI forge :) | 13:51 |
| jaem | is it doing this repeatedly? | 13:51 |
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| xorAxAx | i dreamt last night that the n900 would be finally on stock with a reasonable price | 13:51 |
| kynky | whih inferred to me from saying its milk to something milk*y* doesnt mean milky stuff is milk, just it may demonstrate some of same properties, which is what i was saying when i said windows comment | 13:51 |
| mnk | With hard reset I mean something similar to holding the power button for 5 seconds on any modern PC. | 13:51 |
| go1dfish | mnk: pull the battery out | 13:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | kynky: more like calling apple juice milky | 13:52 |
| go1dfish | quite analogous | 13:52 |
| jaem | mnk, yeah, but if it hasn't booted far enough for the power button to work, pulling the battery is the only way | 13:52 |
| mnk | jaem, Ok, I will do that... | 13:52 |
| xorAxAx | OldNugget: hi, do you plan to develop for maemo? | 13:52 |
| go1dfish | holding the power button 5 seconds just cuts power | 13:52 |
| go1dfish | removing the battery will do the same ;) | 13:52 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, yes, after putting some instant milk powder in the juice | 13:52 |
| timeless_mbp | jaem: heh, sure | 13:52 |
| ale-x | go1dfish: again, I was just curious, imho there are pros and cons for each toolkits and I've to admit I'm quite curious about how the QT desktop and stuff will perform on N900 and following devices | 13:52 |
| jaem | go1dfish, I thought the power button was completely software controlled | 13:52 |
| _claesbas | Anyone been able to get hold of the new ThemeMaker 1.2.5..? garage is down and has been now since yesterday | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | _claesbas: i think i just trashed it | 13:53 |
| go1dfish | jaem: im referring to a desktop pc, holding a powerbutton for 5 seconds on a ATX desktop | 13:53 |
| _claesbas | timeless, :( | 13:53 |
| go1dfish | power button is entirely software controlled on the n900 | 13:53 |
| kynky | well proper apple juice is cloudy :) , the cheap stuff isnt | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | [ThemeMaker1.2.6] | 13:53 |
| jaem | ale-x, I haven't actually coded with GTK, but the code looks ugly to me, and what I've seen of Qt just seems to Make Sense (TM) and work nicely | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | _claesbas: it's still in my trash | 13:53 |
| jaem | go1dfish, oh, yes | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | it requires Fink to be installed | 13:53 |
| go1dfish | was just saying pulling the battery is equivilant | 13:53 |
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| _claesbas | timeless, ah, great | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | (which is totally broken as a mac os x goes) | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | if you want the .zip, i can put it up somewhere | 13:54 |
| _claesbas | timeless, could you please email to claes.norin@gmail.com ? | 13:54 |
| wazd | are there any apps for n900 that looks really crappy? | 13:54 |
| jrocha | hi folks, | 13:54 |
| kynky | wazd, yep | 13:54 |
| jrocha | who's the responsible for the extras devel repo? | 13:54 |
| jaem | wazd, I think so - give me a moment | 13:54 |
| jaem | oh, yes - ATI85 | 13:54 |
| jaem | just kidding | 13:54 |
| ale-x | jaem: ah, GTK+ can be a bit messy if you are not careful enough. That's the big disadvantage with GTK+: C. | 13:54 |
| jaem | it's gorgeous | 13:54 |
| wazd | jaem: die :D | 13:54 |
| go1dfish | jaem: agreed gtk is quite ugly in comparison to equivilant qt code | 13:54 |
| Anupras | guys where is possible to download bounce ? | 13:54 |
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| go1dfish | but can potentially be faster, given the c, vs c++ nature | 13:54 |
| kynky | from extras | 13:54 |
| kynky | for bounce | 13:55 |
| jaem | go1dfish, meh | 13:55 |
| wazd | I mean the crapiest app | 13:55 |
| jaem | kynky, I think Anupras means the full version | 13:55 |
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| wazd | "but useful" | 13:55 |
| Markus23 | go1dfish: you can always write c++ applications as fast as C applications | 13:55 |
| jaem | wazd, pyrecipe could use some work | 13:55 |
| Anupras | no, at least demo | 13:55 |
| jrocha | I wanted to know about a package I asked to be built but the update won't appear | 13:55 |
| Markus23 | even though the code looks the same then :-) | 13:55 |
| Anupras | i still can not find where is the download for it | 13:55 |
| jaem | the icons are cryptic, and some of the UI is just ugly | 13:55 |
| jaem | different screens have different formatting and such | 13:55 |
| jaem | but it's a neat app | 13:56 |
| fragment | Anupras: use the app manager on the device | 13:56 |
| kynky | enable the disabled extras rep | 13:56 |
| go1dfish | Markus23: I don't claim to be an expert on this subject, but I know people who do, and from what I understand c++ compilers are not able to achieve anywhere near the same optimiation as a straight c compiler | 13:56 |
| jaem | Anupras, yes, as a rule, you don't need to manually download apps (although you can) | 13:56 |
| ale-x | on to something different: did anyone already have success in getting SDK+ to work with fremantle?? | 13:56 |
| ale-x | please say yes! | 13:56 |
| wazd | jaem: can you show me some screenshots please? | 13:56 |
| jaem | wazd, one moment | 13:56 |
| wazd | jaem: I don't have anything to check it | 13:56 |
| go1dfish | realizing of course that c is a subset of c++ | 13:57 |
| Markus23 | go1dfish: dont see any reason why e.g. gcc should not apply the same optimizations on c and c++ code | 13:57 |
| go1dfish | but the extra features necessetaded by c++ prevent certain optimizations that are possible to c code | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | go1dfish: C isn't a valid subset of C++ | 13:57 |
| Markus23 | for c++ you need of course much more optimization techniques... | 13:57 |
| jaem | wazd, it's not terrible, but it isn't pretty either | 13:57 |
| go1dfish | again, this is not my area of expertise | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | (recent versions of C violate some rules of C++ in sadly incompatible ways) | 13:57 |
| ale-x | go1dfish: hmm, in earlier days, C++ used to generate C code and compile it. don't know if that counts though | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | with whole program optimization (which doesn't work as well if you deal w/ .so's), c++ compilers can recover some of that | 13:58 |
| Markus23 | timeless_mbp: it is not, but all programming techniques and paradigm from C can be used 1:1 in C++ | 13:58 |
| jaem | wazd, actually never mind... I was misremembering it | 13:58 |
| jaem | really the only issue is just the main screen icons, which I'll send you a picture of | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | but really, the value of C++ is that it's easier to write code with it, and faster to write that code | 13:58 |
| Markus23 | ale-x: thats not possible anymore | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | you can still shoot yourself in the foot with either language, of course | 13:58 |
| jaem | a couple of them are not at all apparent | 13:58 |
| go1dfish | timeless_mbp: certainly | 13:58 |
| wazd | jaem: :) | 13:58 |
| ale-x | Markus23: I know | 13:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | (and most people do) | 13:59 |
| Anupras | thnks guys | 13:59 |
| Anupras | i found it | 13:59 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, #include <shotgun> foot.shoot(); | 13:59 |
| go1dfish | most of the ugliness of GTK comes from trying to crowbar the benefits of C++ into C without compiler changes | 13:59 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: idiots will shoot themselves in the foot regardless of what tools you give them | 13:59 |
| kynky | C++ is a massive language to learn, how many people use the friends thing in c++ ? | 13:59 |
| jaem | kynky, not I | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | kynky: i use friend | 14:00 |
| Markus23 | kynky: fully agree on that | 14:00 |
| jaem | not except in the odd lab exercise | 14:00 |
| * timeless_mbp uses friend in real code | 14:00 | |
| Markus23 | kynky: but friend is a rather common feature compared to what templates can do | 14:00 |
| * timeless_mbp isn't going to claim it's the best way of doing things | 14:00 | |
| timeless_mbp | arguably friend is about violating apis for private contracts | 14:00 |
| xorAxAx | "If you think C++ is not overly complicated, just what is a protected abstract virtual base pure virtual private destructor, and when was the last time you needed one?" -- Tom Cargil, C++ Journal | 14:00 |
| kynky | templates are awesome though :) | 14:00 |
| Markus23 | xorAxAx: ? private and protected at the same time? | 14:01 |
| xorAxAx | does somebody see whats wrong here? i get "dpkg-genchanges: warning: unknown information field `Xb-Maemo-Icon-26' in input data in package's section of control info file | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | templates tend to be bad for code size :( | 14:01 |
| kynky | but when c++ language was designed, i didnt think they thought of templates | 14:01 |
| xorAxAx | " -- http://paste.pocoo.org/show/156630/ | 14:01 |
| kynky | templates are good for compiled code size | 14:02 |
| xorAxAx | Markus23: the base class is protected | 14:02 |
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| jaem | wazd, http://imagebin.ca/view/UpHDBaw.html | 14:02 |
| Markus23 | timeless_mbp: yes, thats true, but there are techniques to reduce it a lot by using a implementation which is not a template | 14:02 |
| xorAxAx | does anybody have an idea? | 14:02 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, i'm out for a while | 14:03 |
| jaem | wazd, the two that are weird are the second and third from the left | 14:03 |
| Markus23 | xorAxAx: ok :-) | 14:03 |
| jaem | the second from the left shows the recipe that's selected | 14:03 |
| jaem | and the middle one edits it | 14:03 |
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| jaem | but I had to guess | 14:03 |
| wazd | jaem: and missing toolbar :) | 14:03 |
| jaem | wazd, ? | 14:03 |
| Markus23 | xorAxAx: make a space before "XB-Maemo-Icon-26:" | 14:03 |
| wazd | jaem: otherwise not really bad | 14:03 |
| jaem | oh | 14:03 |
| xorAxAx | Markus23: ok | 14:03 |
| jaem | I see | 14:03 |
| jaem | yeah | 14:03 |
| Markus23 | xorAxAx: sorry | 14:04 |
| wazd | jaem: 5 buttous instead of bottom toolbar | 14:04 |
| Markus23 | xorAxAx: it is an extension I am not aware about | 14:04 |
| jaem | wazd, yeah, just caught that | 14:04 |
| Markus23 | xorAxAx: when you make the space it will be a part of the description, dont know if XB-Maemo-Icon-26 is meant to be used like that | 14:06 |
| ale-x | I tend to repeat myself somehow: Is anyone using SDK+? or do you all develop on N900 directly? | 14:06 |
| * RST38h goes over the tmo new-posts. Things got bad enough to start causing perverse interest in what ELSE these people can come up with | 14:06 | |
| RST38h | "Let me explain...If we take an N900 with a hypothetical $500 price and compare the hardware internals of an identically priced laptop, it is clear that the N900 should cost about $150-200." | 14:07 |
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| ManuelSE | 17 programs/windows running on N900 atm. iphone is a toy by comparison! | 14:08 |
| kynky | is that a laptop in your pocket, or are you just pleased to see me ? | 14:08 |
| Markus23 | RST38h: yeah, but size matters :-) | 14:08 |
| ale-x | RST38h: lol | 14:08 |
| RST38h | "Hi everybody. I was reading some tweets where some guys reported that they are playing quake 3 with tv out on the n900. " | 14:08 |
| ManuelSE | who writes this foolishness | 14:08 |
| kynky | lol | 14:08 |
| ale-x | kynky: double lol | 14:08 |
| RST38h | ManuelSE: Apparently, humans | 14:09 |
| Markus23 | cool, have to try pyrecipe | 14:09 |
| Markus23 | http://pyrecipe.garage.maemo.org/+ | 14:09 |
| ale-x | RST38h: no, those are not humans, they are trolls | 14:09 |
| ManuelSE | can i get yellow bar to show the copied text to buffer? | 14:09 |
| RST38h | "Hey, I want to share with you guys this link, where you can download easy any mp3 music on your devices for free." | 14:09 |
| Markus23 | sorry, s/+// | 14:09 |
| lcuk | RST38h, are you being the interface between talk.maemo.org and irc? | 14:10 |
| ManuelSE | rst tmo is like other consumer product forums | 14:10 |
| ManuelSE | that appeal to kids | 14:10 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: I am considering switching from dailyrotten to tmo for my daily dose of human idiocy | 14:11 |
| *** eichi has quit IRC | 14:11 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: Think it is worth it? | 14:11 |
| wazd | joined: Nov 2009, posts: 725 | 14:11 |
| wazd | how do they do that | 14:11 |
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| kynky | my opinion on tmo, is that you have to go through so much waffle to get the little gems of info, i think ppl just post to get their post count up mostly, my post count is the best, its at 0 , only need 5 more till i can pm | 14:11 |
| RST38h | they do not read | 14:11 |
| RST38h | haven't you known? | 14:11 |
| lcuk | wazd its easy | 14:12 |
| lcuk | i managed half a million words in irc over 1 year ;) | 14:12 |
| lcuk | yes RST38h | 14:12 |
| wazd | 20 posts a day | 14:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk <-- a prolific writer indeed =) | 14:12 |
| * timeless grumbles | 14:12 | |
| wazd | without brakes :) | 14:12 |
| timeless | anyone here use MfE? | 14:12 |
| RST38h | wazd: there are some seriously obsessed people there too | 14:13 |
| kynky | MfE doesnt work for gmail , so not using yet | 14:13 |
| timeless | i just discovered another reason to shoot someone | 14:13 |
| kynky | ... ? | 14:13 |
| lcuk | RST38h, we should have auto tweet from top post of tmo | 14:13 |
| lcuk | every 5 minutes | 14:13 |
| lcuk | mind you, it would make twitter meltdown | 14:14 |
| wazd | RST38h: also, current trend: "I don't know waht to do with theme template" | 14:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I think there is some script on tmo that does it | 14:14 |
| timeless | fail whale? | 14:14 |
| lcuk | nahhh thats just the users | 14:14 |
| lcuk | wetware scripting | 14:14 |
| RST38h | wazd: "If you do not know, it is not going to be of any interest to you" | 14:14 |
| * timeless frowns | 14:14 | |
| * RST38h started answering this way lately | 14:14 | |
| lcuk | timeless, indeed :D | 14:15 |
| lcuk | what would be the tmo failed mascot | 14:15 |
| xorAxAx | huh, the maemo 5 webbrowser uses an enforced proxy?!? | 14:15 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: a newt. | 14:15 |
| t_s_o | whats the issue with the garage maintenance? | 14:15 |
| kynky | xorAxAx, really ? | 14:15 |
| arachnist | it does? | 14:16 |
| * RST38h noticed that fbreader STILL did not make it to the repository | 14:16 | |
| xorAxAx | kynky: ovi store says i am not supported because my device is called like a proxy | 14:16 |
| valdyn | xorAxAx: that is your isp? | 14:16 |
| xorAxAx | no, valdyn | 14:16 |
| timeless | xor: store.ovi.mobi? | 14:16 |
| kynky | xorAxAx, try diff user agent ? | 14:16 |
| kynky | yeah isp , lol | 14:16 |
| xorAxAx | http://ovi.mobi/store/maps | 14:17 |
| Markus23 | has someone experience with open-xchange and n900? | 14:17 |
| timeless | xor: microb does not use a proxy unless you configure your connection to have one | 14:17 |
| pupnik_ | why not put your commercial app in repository non-free, and charge for activation | 14:17 |
| wazd | RST38h: you should definitely know some awful looking maemo 5 app | 14:17 |
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| xorAxAx | timeless: good to know | 14:17 |
| RST38h | wazd: Of course I do | 14:17 |
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| valdyn | xorAxAx: "Sorry, we can't find that page." | 14:17 |
| lcuk | how do i upload a picture from a script to tmo | 14:17 |
| RST38h | wazd: First of all, you can probably do the new FBReader toolbar and other icons if you feel like it | 14:17 |
| lcuk | given threadid, username, password, picture filename | 14:17 |
| xorAxAx | http://ovi.mobi/services/maps | 14:17 |
| RST38h | wazd: Secondly, there is Maemo Mapper | 14:18 |
| pupnik_ | lcuk, sounds ripe for abuse | 14:18 |
| RST38h | wazd: The map is find but the icons and some other UI is kinda awful right now | 14:18 |
| RST38h | s/find/fine/ | 14:18 |
| infobot | RST38h meant: wazd: The map is fine but the icons and some other UI is kinda awful right now | 14:18 |
| kynky | i waiting for that cygnit , tomtom like app for n900 | 14:18 |
| lcuk | pupnik_, i stopped listening to you when you spouted nazi crap in my channel | 14:18 |
| valdyn | xorAxAx: works fine using an actual proxy | 14:19 |
| valdyn | xorAxAx: but that doesnt change my id string | 14:19 |
| RST38h | nazi crap? interesting =) | 14:19 |
| kynky | private or public proxy valdyn ? | 14:19 |
| valdyn | kynky: private | 14:19 |
| wazd | RST38h: can you show me FBreader icons? | 14:20 |
| kynky | valdyn, maybe you got your proxy set up so it doesnt look like a proxy | 14:20 |
| Markus23 | No one used n900 with a non-microsoft based exchange server? | 14:20 |
| kynky | you can do lots of things with proxies | 14:21 |
| RST38h | wazd: http://fms.komkon.org/fbreader-0.10.7-4_fms.tgz | 14:21 |
| killefiz | Markus23: how would that be possible? Exchange is a MS product. | 14:21 |
| RST38h | wazd: fbreader/data/icons/transparent-32x32-old/ is what I am using for the toolbar right now | 14:21 |
| wazd | 3.0Mb of icons? :D | 14:21 |
| lcuk | i tohught euros were meant to be waterproof o_O | 14:22 |
| Markus23 | killefiz: http://www.open-xchange.com | 14:22 |
| RST38h | wazd: weeeeelll... :) | 14:22 |
| wazd | RST38h: :D | 14:22 |
| kynky | the way exchange does its mojo has been copied in other server products | 14:22 |
| RST38h | wazd: and there are some other relevant icons there | 14:22 |
| valdyn | kynky: stock squid, nothing special about it | 14:22 |
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| wazd | RST38h: your hosting is damn slow :) | 14:23 |
| xorAxAx | hmm, is it possible to have programs as hildon-home widgets instead of shared libs? | 14:23 |
| xorAxAx | it doesnt seem to work for me | 14:23 |
| kynky | valdyn, the special thing about squid is squid itself, lots of rubbish proxies out there, squid is fantastic, think squid just passes on info, and doesnt say its squid by default, as in changing data, but not 100% sure | 14:23 |
| RST38h | wazd: too many leechers! =) | 14:23 |
| valdyn | kynky: right | 14:24 |
| mashiara | kynky valdyn: I'm pretty sure Squid add the X-Via -headers by default | 14:25 |
| mashiara | but no changing user-agent or somesuch crap... | 14:25 |
| wazd | RST38h: I wonder how can I get Dl speed about 3.0 KB/s from 15 seeders | 14:25 |
| wazd | RST38h: do you know anything bout that? | 14:25 |
| RST38h | no idea =) | 14:25 |
| valdyn | wazd: no uploads? | 14:26 |
| RST38h | but my experience with torrent has been patchy as well | 14:26 |
| mashiara | sorry. Via is standard HTTP header, X-Cache -headers... | 14:26 |
| RST38h | 20kB/s today, 780kB/s tomorrow | 14:26 |
| valdyn | wazd: being a seeder also does not imply that they actually upload | 14:26 |
| RST38h | depends on where they are | 14:26 |
| valdyn | wazd: but your case would usually be that you dont upload | 14:26 |
| kynky | lol | 14:27 |
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| RST38h | wazd: btw, by "undo" and "redo" FBReader means going through the navigation history afaik | 14:29 |
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| kynky | was thinking of getting a portable power supply for n900, rather than buying a spare battery, and swapping all time, something like this good ? http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk/usbliionbatterypack.htm , or is there better ? | 14:30 |
| valdyn | kynky: cheaper than the one from nokia i guess? | 14:31 |
| kynky | i guess so :) | 14:31 |
| valdyn | neat and small | 14:32 |
| valdyn | but wears down like laptop batteries =/ | 14:32 |
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| mashiara | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.18883 | 14:32 |
| mashiara | 18650 cells can be bought separately when they wear down | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | kynky: charging isn't implemented by special high efficiency techniques. Everything getting warm and external power source has to supply the power for your handswarmer | 14:33 |
| mashiara | though this set does not have micro-USB adapter. | 14:33 |
| pupnik_ | spare battery has advantage of compactness | 14:34 |
| kynky | got a usb to micro-usb cable with n900 | 14:35 |
| mashiara | sure... | 14:35 |
| mashiara | and the included adapter cable is bound to break sooner or later | 14:35 |
| mashiara | I don't particularly like those retractable cables just for that reason | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | so external power source is for situations where power is really cheap | 14:36 |
| kynky | spare battery is expensive, already got a battery charger for bl-5j (n900 battery), although it is small, not fancy taking back cover off on n900 too much | 14:36 |
| kynky | i can power it at work :) | 14:36 |
| kynky | i seen the ones which take 4AA batteries instead, but you can charge the 1 i said at same time as using it :) | 14:37 |
| kynky | mashiara, no need to use suppied cable with that product, it has usb out , so use cable that came with n900 , usb to micro usb | 14:37 |
| mashiara | I know... | 14:37 |
| mashiara | was just complaining... | 14:38 |
| kynky | oh, my bad :) | 14:38 |
| mashiara | Another contraption: http://www.qaiku.com/home/rambo/show/1dea564a57cea54a56411debcdcdb6e6b542f9b2f9b/ | 14:38 |
| mashiara | built if before getting the DX setup | 14:38 |
| mashiara | just before the Netherlands Summit | 14:39 |
| kynky | sweet | 14:39 |
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| pupnik_ | any word from nokia on bypassing compositor and pulseaudio yet? | 14:40 |
| wazd | RST38h: new icons are shiny :) | 14:42 |
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| lcuk | mashiara, that contraption would possibly not get on a plane! | 14:42 |
| lcuk | i have one that looks like a bomb | 14:42 |
| kynky | the default mediaplayer with ac3 plugin doesnt work too well with ac3 films, so had to use mplayer. gotta say "mplayer -fs -framedrop <file>" is handy | 14:42 |
| lcuk | it glows red when plugged in too | 14:42 |
| mashiara | Icuk: I had no trouble getting it in a plane... | 14:43 |
| lcuk | cool then | 14:43 |
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| kynky | mashiara, that link for flashlight plus charger thing was good | 14:43 |
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| mashiara | the flashlight is pretty handy too | 14:43 |
| mashiara | *very* bright... | 14:43 |
| mashiara | I wonder how many hours the led is going to really last... | 14:44 |
| kynky | lcuk, they had no choice to not let him on the plane, it looked like a bomb :) | 14:44 |
| * mashiara has a feeling it's being rudely overdriven | 14:44 | |
| lcuk | o_O | 14:44 |
| kynky | how long would it last for ? | 14:45 |
| kynky | wouldnt imagine long | 14:45 |
| kynky | for n900 that is | 14:45 |
| mashiara | oh the small thing... | 14:45 |
| mashiara | not long... | 14:45 |
| mashiara | otoh I managed a full charge to n810 from it | 14:46 |
| kynky | :) | 14:46 |
| timeless | what's the name of the menu that has the clock? | 14:46 |
| Stskeeps | status menu/area | 14:46 |
| mashiara | so it might surprise you. contrary to my promise I have not yet tested the frankencharger with a 18650 cell yet | 14:47 |
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| mashiara | but the logic IC should be able to handle one | 14:47 |
| mashiara | and those pack a lot of power... | 14:47 |
| kynky | those 18650 cells are 2200mah :) | 14:47 |
| mashiara | available also in 2500mAh | 14:49 |
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| kynky | why is bl-5j only 1390mah ? | 14:49 |
| mashiara | but it's the 4.7V lithium chemistry that makes the big difference here | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | the mAh is a lie! | 14:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | kynky: the size | 14:50 |
| SpeedEvil | mashiara: 3.7 | 14:50 |
| mashiara | sorry, typo... | 14:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | kynky: Work out the volume of the bl-5j - and the volume of an 18650 | 14:50 |
| mashiara | and add the fact the most 18650 cells leave out protection circuits... | 14:50 |
| SpeedEvil | My GPSs 800mAh battery died, and it grew an 18650 on the side. | 14:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | the protection circuits volume is essentially negligable | 14:51 |
| mashiara | as is cost, but someone is always cutting them... | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not - it's a sizeable fraction of a dollar | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | that is important in some apps | 14:52 |
| mashiara | true... | 14:52 |
| RST38h | it is of course a terrorist plot. | 14:52 |
| mashiara | then there's the RC batteries where every gram of weight counts | 14:52 |
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| mashiara | no protection, no casing | 14:52 |
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| * mashiara hasn't yet burned any helis | 14:53 | |
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| mashiara | crashed one a few times tough... | 14:53 |
| kynky | so n900 is deemed as low current draw so those 18650 are ideal for external on the go power sources ? | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | And insane people making RC helicopters that weigh under a gram | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: pretty much. | 14:53 |
| joppu | AndrewFBlack: Hi! | 14:54 |
| kynky | SpeedEvil, and mashiara much thx for info, will do some more googling | 14:54 |
| SpeedEvil | 18650 = 18mm dia * 65mm long | 14:54 |
| sejo | O_o_O Nethack!!! w00t | 14:56 |
| * w00t glares at sejo | 14:56 | |
| w00t | :P | 14:56 |
| kynky | sejo, the 3d one ? | 14:56 |
| * sejo 's addiction twitching coming back | 14:56 | |
| sejo | kynky: yeah installing it now | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | sejo: It sucks. | 14:57 |
| Anupras | guys, is it possible to play runescape on n900 ? | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | sejo: The 3d totally obscures the fundamental mechanics IMO. | 14:57 |
| sejo | aww chucks SpeedEvil | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | YMMV | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Argh! A yeti! | 14:57 |
| joppu | Anupras: ewww, runescape | 14:57 |
| joppu | I think it uses java, so thnk god no | 14:58 |
| Anupras | so ? :) | 14:58 |
| Anupras | yeah it uses java... | 14:58 |
| kynky | i got bored with crysis on n900, needed something more graphically intensive to demonstrate power of n900 | 14:58 |
| * lcuk forgot twitter existed lol | 14:58 | |
| SpeedEvil | bounce! All 2 levels. | 14:59 |
| lcuk | kynky, liqflow :) | 14:59 |
| kynky | :) | 14:59 |
| lcuk | 200 rectangles never looked so food | 14:59 |
| lcuk | good even | 14:59 |
| * lcuk gahs | 14:59 | |
| Markus23 | kynky: crysis runs on n900? | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: you should be able to theme the rectangles. After-8, ryvita, ... | 15:00 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, actually i can | 15:00 |
| lcuk | ive got alphablended ones and sketches | 15:00 |
| lcuk | draw a star | 15:00 |
| lcuk | and use that instead | 15:00 |
| kynky | lcuk, i googled liqflow , and your name is in top search for it :) | 15:01 |
| lcuk | at the long weekend we started to sort out proper prefernece dialogs for this sort of stuff | 15:01 |
| lcuk | of course | 15:01 |
| lcuk | i wrote it | 15:01 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0 | 15:01 |
| kynky | so beat detection ? | 15:02 |
| lcuk | no | 15:02 |
| lcuk | thats accelerometer controlled | 15:02 |
| lcuk | its responding to the banging on the table | 15:02 |
| guaqua | in what repo is liqflow at? | 15:03 |
| kynky | oh, hence the slapping on the table ? | 15:03 |
| lcuk | maemo-testing | 15:03 |
| guaqua | extras-devel? | 15:03 |
| lcuk | yeah kynky | 15:03 |
| pupnik_ | 2441 1181 user R 63372 25.7 85.5 /usr/sbin/browserd -s 2441 -n browserui | 15:03 |
| xorAxAx | how about http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.23567? 10Ah :) | 15:03 |
| lcuk | jamming along | 15:03 |
| pupnik_ | how do i see which webpage is eating cpu? | 15:03 |
| lcuk | extras-testing sorry | 15:03 |
| xorAxAx | (ok, 2Ah really) | 15:03 |
| kynky | be good if projectm worked on n900, although it does exist for libvisual, and there is a libvisual gstreamer plugin | 15:03 |
| * lcuk likes to just rotate the screen and stuff, before you draw anything the particles fall like rain | 15:04 | |
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| kynky | xorAxAx, so the output is like a normal 5V usb powr supply from pc ? | 15:06 |
| xorAxAx | kynky: no, its likely less but enough to charge | 15:06 |
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| kynky | says its 5.2v output on site | 15:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | 5.2 is within the USB spec | 15:08 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 sighs | 15:09 | |
| kynky | 3.3v is low power usb ? | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | USB is always 5V | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | It woudl be cool if there was a 30V mode - but there isn't. | 15:10 |
| kynky | P=VA | 15:10 |
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| * timeless sighs | 15:25 | |
| timeless | someone remind me to slap the next ovi rep i meet | 15:25 |
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| timeless | 12/11/2009, 15:44 | 15:25 |
| timeless | eep | 15:25 |
| timeless | http://store.ovi.mobi/default/index/incompatible | 15:25 |
| timeless | there's a link in the center of the page | 15:26 |
| timeless | but afaict it lies | 15:26 |
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| timeless | could someone please load that page in their n900's browser? | 15:31 |
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| frals | "we're sorry, ovi store is currently not available for your device" | 15:33 |
| RST38h | "A bit dissapointed with the N900" (C)Anwarboy11 | 15:33 |
| RST38h | God, please, make more of them get disappointed... | 15:33 |
| ManuelSE | why | 15:34 |
| range | timeless: You mean STORE_URL_LABEL? :) | 15:34 |
| ManuelSE | sell more n900 | 15:34 |
| RST38h | Choice quote: "BTW - is there an msn client available anywhere?, and another email client? i have an ancient @msn.com account and i can't seem to get it set up on the n900." | 15:34 |
| range | timeless: Which expands to .../index/STORE_URL? | 15:35 |
| ManuelSE | you helped n900 very much rst38h thank you for your programs | 15:35 |
| ManuelSE | :# | 15:35 |
| * RST38h prays to the Tentacled One to get all these kids disappointed with N900 and go away | 15:36 | |
| RST38h | That will be something like 10-20 total customer base lost to Nokia, but it will make tmo a better place... | 15:36 |
| ManuelSE | i make new app for n900 | 15:40 |
| ManuelSE | http://parisfacial.ytmnd.com it display this when screen sleeps | 15:42 |
| timeless | range: so.. | 15:42 |
| timeless | can you click help at the bottom? | 15:42 |
| range | Umm, wait. | 15:43 |
| timeless | for me, it sends me back to the same error page | 15:43 |
| timeless | do you actually see STORE_URL_LABEL in the ui? | 15:44 |
| range | Yes. | 15:44 |
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| range | As I do on the PC. | 15:44 |
| range | And no, Help doesn't work. | 15:44 |
| timeless | range: pictures/save, and please complain | 15:44 |
| timeless | not surre how, since obviously help doesn't work.. | 15:44 |
| range | How do I snapshot? | 15:44 |
| timeless | s/rr/r/ | 15:44 |
| infobot | timeless meant: not sure how, since obviously help doesn't work.. | 15:44 |
| timeless | ctrl-shift-p on n900 | 15:45 |
| timeless | print-screen on windows and paste into mspaint | 15:45 |
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| timeless | on w7 use snipping tool | 15:45 |
| range | Nono, n900. | 15:45 |
| range | Mac I know :) | 15:45 |
| timeless | oh good, because explaining os x key strokes from this n900 sucks | 15:46 |
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| range | http://oerks.de/~ralph/screenshot00.png is what it looks like on the n900 | 15:49 |
| range | Complain to who? | 15:49 |
| Markus23 | RST38h: I thought it takes some time until the ovi store is available? | 15:52 |
| Markus23 | sorry, RST38h, i mean range | 15:52 |
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| range | timeless: Again, I'm always for complaining, but ovi is not a product in bugzilla, I guess :) | 15:54 |
| Markus23 | range: no, but that screen is part of a product, and STORE_URL_LABEL is obviously a bug | 15:55 |
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| Markus23 | or is this screenshot from the web browser on n900? | 15:56 |
| range | Yupp. | 15:56 |
| range | That's what you get when you visit store.ovi.mobi. | 15:56 |
| xorAxAx | range: where did you buy your n900? | 15:57 |
| range | On the intarweb. | 15:57 |
| range | Noki.a | 15:57 |
| xorAxAx | the official shop? ok | 15:58 |
| Ceron^ | anyone got the offscr-speedometer | 16:00 |
| Ceron^ | application :( | 16:00 |
| Ceron^ | i want it | 16:00 |
| ManuelSE_ | what | 16:02 |
| range | I want modest to work correctly and don't get that either, so ... :) | 16:02 |
| ManuelSE_ | ctrl+i for xchat pls | 16:04 |
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| joppu | thp: have you yet implemented the icons and the new quick action prompt in gpodder? | 16:04 |
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| lardman | hey | 16:05 |
| lardman | Garage is still down? | 16:05 |
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| redeeman | Ceron^: did you get even one of the offscr apps? | 16:06 |
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| ShadowJK | ManualSE: have you tried changing nick complete from tab to ctrl-i in xchat's key shortcut settings? | 16:07 |
| ShadowJK | dunno if that too crashes or not | 16:07 |
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| ShadowJK | menu - settings - advanced - keyboard shorcuts | 16:07 |
| ManuelSE_ | thank you. i keep crashing settings | 16:08 |
| zigo--__-- | I've just tried to install an Ubuntu Kramic 32 bits virtual machine as I thought it was the best choice as a devel. env., but it seems I was wrong. My laptop itself is running Debian Lenny 64 bits, so I think I still have to install a 32 bits VM. What you guys advise me to install as a dev. VM ??? | 16:08 |
| zigo--__-- | What is the target of the dev kit? It's made for WHAT ??? | 16:08 |
| cehteh | huh? i installed the sdk on lenny 64 bit without problems | 16:09 |
| cehteh | maybe you go back and rtfm :P | 16:09 |
| ManuelSE_ | using vbox give segfault for new sdk ... only vmplayer worked fopr me | 16:10 |
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| zigo--__-- | cehteh: I guess you installed the beta version, then. | 16:10 |
| zigo--__-- | The GUI installer just fails here... | 16:10 |
| cehteh | nope final | 16:10 |
| zigo--__-- | Oh. | 16:10 |
| zigo--__-- | I'll try again then. Thanks. | 16:11 |
| Markus23 | cehteh: ohh, have debian lenny 64bit here too, any tips for install? | 16:11 |
| Markus23 | does even the gui installer work? | 16:11 |
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| ShadowJK | settings - preferences crashes for everyone else too | 16:13 |
| zigo--__-- | When I start it, it says "Using SDK on X86_64 is not supported, but you can install it anyway. | 16:14 |
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| cehteh | no gui installer, used the instructions on the sdk site, there was a note for 64bit, cant find it now | 16:14 |
| zigo--__-- | cehteh: Should I ignore and do it still? | 16:14 |
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| zigo--__-- | cehteh: Thanks, I'll try the GUI one first. | 16:14 |
| Macer | hello | 16:15 |
| Macer | keepin it real | 16:15 |
| Markus23 | ok, thank you | 16:15 |
| cehteh | well if it tells it isnt supported on 64 bit then its not .. at least the gui installer might not set the proper switches | 16:15 |
| cehteh | i dont even know there is a gui installer .. is there a new release? | 16:15 |
| Ceron^ | redeeman: nope :p+ | 16:17 |
| cehteh | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_x86-32_Debian_based_distribution | 16:17 |
| Ceron^ | redeeman: lucky bastards some ppl got all of them | 16:17 |
| timeless | use vmware. | 16:17 |
| timeless | (or vitualbox) | 16:18 |
| cehteh | or kvm | 16:18 |
| cehteh | well you dont need to | 16:18 |
| cehteh | it works well as native install | 16:18 |
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| timeless | as a dev who failed to get kvm anywhere useful.. | 16:18 |
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| zigo--__-- | scratchbox.org is SOOOOOOOOOOOO slow from here... | 16:21 |
| zigo--__-- | 10Kbits/s | 16:21 |
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| Macer | heh | 16:24 |
| Macer | are you tethering? :) | 16:24 |
| Macer | hm. i couldnt get wifi tethering working on my n810 to my g1. wtf | 16:25 |
| wazd | RST38h: around? | 16:26 |
| RST38h | yep | 16:27 |
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| wazd | RST38h: what icons do you want for FBReader? solid white like maemo5's? | 16:28 |
| Markus23 | cehteh: thank you for the link | 16:29 |
| naxxatoe | wazd: you there? | 16:29 |
| ShadowJK | this crash-reporter thing.. I hope it's meant to be used | 16:30 |
| wazd | naxxatoe: I'm here :) | 16:30 |
| naxxatoe | wazd: the best thingw ould be going with the default theme | 16:30 |
| naxxatoe | of the n900, so it feels consistant | 16:30 |
| RST38h | wazd: Good question | 16:30 |
| naxxatoe | as for colors | 16:30 |
| naxxatoe | i would prefer light grey | 16:30 |
| naxxatoe | over white | 16:30 |
| naxxatoe | as it distracts less | 16:30 |
| wazd | naxxatoe: well, grey can be interpreted as "disabled" | 16:31 |
| wazd | naxxatoe: a bit confusing | 16:31 |
| naxxatoe | lerned this lessonw hilst building a presentation tool (presenters screen, multiscreen enabled and so on) called douf00 ;) | 16:31 |
| naxxatoe | mhh if grey isnt a option | 16:31 |
| naxxatoe | gimme a sec | 16:31 |
| cehteh | turn brightness down if you want grey | 16:31 |
| RST38h | wazd: I am almost inclined to say that they should be in the same style as Hildon's FullScreen icon | 16:32 |
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| naxxatoe | wazd: do you have a n900 in front of you? | 16:32 |
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| wazd | naxxatoe: since maemo 5 toolbar icons are white, don't think that there's a reason no to follow | 16:32 |
| wazd | naxxatoe: never ask me again :D | 16:32 |
| naxxatoe | ;) | 16:32 |
| RST38h | wazd: i.e. simple, solid, white | 16:32 |
| wazd | RST38h: yeha, my POV too | 16:32 |
| naxxatoe | i would prefer to do a very light grey | 16:33 |
| RST38h | wazd: but the Satan is asking me "isn't this too boring?" | 16:33 |
| naxxatoe | and a darker grey for disabled | 16:33 |
| naxxatoe | i dont mean linke grey grey | 16:33 |
| naxxatoe | all i am saying is not pure white | 16:33 |
| naxxatoe | as that is highly distracting when reading text | 16:33 |
| RST38h | naxxatoe: what application are you talking about? | 16:33 |
| wazd | RST38h: current FBR icons are shiny and fun! :D | 16:33 |
| RST38h | wazd: yea, right... | 16:33 |
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| wazd | naxxatoe: well, I can make a special VIP grey version for you only :D | 16:34 |
| wazd | naxxatoe: not a big deal actially | 16:35 |
| naxxatoe | i can fix that myself | 16:35 |
| wazd | actually* | 16:35 |
| RST38h | wazd: BTW, there was one more type of icons: http://www.fbreader.org/maemo/screenshots/start-default.png | 16:35 |
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| wazd | 2006, sheesh :D | 16:35 |
| RST38h | wazd: i.e. using white accented navy blue may also be ok | 16:35 |
| wazd | those themes were epic :D | 16:35 |
| RST38h | (not that I approve of the images themselves of course) | 16:35 |
| naxxatoe | wazd: i was just dumping my thoughts on this in here, in case it helps ;) | 16:36 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, maybe you're right bout blue | 16:36 |
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| wazd | naxxatoe: any feedback counts :) | 16:36 |
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| RST38h | wazd: the maemo5 toolbar is black rather than white though ;) | 16:36 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I mean white icons with blueish details | 16:38 |
| wazd | damn that FM app thread is so frustrating | 16:39 |
| naxxatoe | wazd: let me give you a example, i like how the buttons look on | 16:40 |
| wazd | naxxatoe: you don't need to ask for my permission :D | 16:40 |
| naxxatoe | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/pyrecipe/ | 16:40 |
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| naxxatoe | but the problem is | 16:40 |
| naxxatoe | they are too strong white | 16:40 |
| red | Hello, when tethering The n900 in windows the PC Suite modem driver has properties tab for changing the maximum link speed | 16:41 |
| red | maximum setting on the dropdown list is 921kbps | 16:41 |
| naxxatoe | the iconset is nice, but the white is just too strong, when reading compact text, if they used a very light grey, instead of white, it would look a lot better ;) | 16:41 |
| wazd | naxxatoe: well, I can make icon lines thinner so it won't be so distractive | 16:41 |
| arachnist | red: which is about 7.2mbit | 16:41 |
| red | now my GPRS connection is 3.6mbps - is there any way to get it higher? | 16:41 |
| red | arachnist: by what logic? | 16:41 |
| naxxatoe | wazd: we will have to see how that scales on a real display | 16:41 |
| wazd | 3.6mbS?! | 16:42 |
| naxxatoe | when you are done, ping me and i will give you feedback - if you want ;) | 16:42 |
| wazd | nO FREAKING WAY :d | 16:42 |
| wazd | caps( | 16:42 |
| red | wazd: yes | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | I think he means 3G | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | not GPRS | 16:42 |
| arachnist | red: 921kbps == 8*921 kbit/s | 16:42 |
| red | ah, yes | 16:42 |
| wazd | naxxatoe: *you'll* have to :D | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Or she | 16:42 |
| naxxatoe | if i dont respond in main channel - /privmsg me ;) | 16:42 |
| naxxatoe | afk for a bit | 16:42 |
| red | red: are you sure the speed advertized is kilobytes per second and not kilobits? | 16:43 |
| wazd | SpeedEvil: even EDGE can't do 3MBs | 16:43 |
| RST38h | wazd: yep | 16:43 |
| red | edge is slow cwap | 16:43 |
| red | im on 3G sorry wazd )= | 16:43 |
| RST38h | wazd: but look at the bright side: the trolls are starting to give up! | 16:43 |
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| red | figure of speech to call it gprs =) | 16:43 |
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| wazd | RST38h: ah, whatever :) | 16:44 |
| red | 3.6mbps is only the namely speed anyhow | 16:44 |
| red | best I've gotten to DL was 295KB/sec | 16:44 |
| wazd | lcuk: we are now finger colleagues now, you know :D | 16:44 |
| red | there is no such thing as perfect coverage :p | 16:44 |
| wazd | lcuk: I've cut out part of my finger too :D | 16:44 |
| lcuk | o_O wazd, rly :O what happened | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | did you go to finland too? | 16:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:45 |
| lcuk | and it wasnt your designing finger was it | 16:45 |
| wazd | lcuk: not so drammaticaly ofcourse :) | 16:45 |
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| red | arachnist: tweaked a bit and my link spiid is 1Mpbs now. | 16:45 |
| wazd | lcuk: Failed at opening can with cat's food | 16:45 |
| red | and my max conn is 3.6Mpbs | 16:45 |
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| w00t | I once cut my finger by smashing a glass bottle while I held it | 16:45 |
| red | I'm quite sure it's bits and not bytes what the task manager network view is showing | 16:45 |
| RST38h | lardman: Moo! | 16:45 |
| wazd | lcuk: but it was damn bloody :D | 16:45 |
| w00t | (durr, but I was much younger at the time) | 16:45 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: yeah, damn doors :D | 16:46 |
| red | I'm downloading 50Kb/sec at the moment, and the manager shows 50% utilization | 16:46 |
| red | so it has to be correct, | 16:46 |
| SpeedEvil | red: speedtest.net | 16:46 |
| SpeedEvil | red: on the actual phone | 16:46 |
| red | The phones link isn't the problem :) | 16:46 |
| Cromag | pft! | 16:46 |
| red | I can achieve at best like 295Kb/s if good coverage | 16:46 |
| lcuk | wazd, youch, im surprised your cat didnt attack you whn it smelt blood | 16:47 |
| lcuk | especially if it was hungry | 16:47 |
| red | but when using the phone as a moden on my PC, (pc suite modem driver) the link it shakes between phone and pc is 1mpbs | 16:47 |
| * lcuk needs to improve typing | 16:47 | |
| w00t | lcuk: no, you need to invent neural interfaces for the next maemo device | 16:47 |
| w00t | (hi btw!:) | 16:48 |
| * SpeedEvil passes lcuk seven stainless steel nails. | 16:48 | |
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| lcuk | w00t, thats not a bad idea | 16:48 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, its the keyboard thats a problem | 16:48 |
| lcuk | my fingers still arent used to it | 16:48 |
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| pupnik__ | Happy Anniversary to Jayesh Salvi's sdl+opengl problem. | 16:50 |
| pupnik__ | Sun Dec 13 15:51:06 CET 2009 | 16:50 |
| red | SpeedEvil: 921600bps is the real handshake speed between phone + pc | 16:50 |
| pupnik__ | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/44229 | 16:50 |
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| ShadowJK | the link speeds dont have much meaning on this kind of interface.I think | 16:51 |
| w00t | lcuk: what keyboard? | 16:51 |
| ShadowJK | since it's not a real serial link anywhere in the chain | 16:51 |
| lcuk | any lol | 16:51 |
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| pupnik | why can we not enter our location manually to assist gps | 16:59 |
| pupnik | what is that, a 1/2 hour fix? | 16:59 |
| moo__ | pupnik: you don't have a-gps? | 17:00 |
| pupnik | I must be very strange person for knowing where i am. | 17:00 |
| moo__ | or your network does not support it? | 17:00 |
| pupnik | I don't want this radio on all the time. | 17:00 |
| pupnik | Microwave radiation is worse than you think | 17:00 |
| moo__ | pupnik: are you dicussing or complaining | 17:00 |
| moo__ | irc is for discussion, you know :) | 17:00 |
| pupnik | I do have a-gps sometimes | 17:00 |
| RST38h | tinfoil hats! | 17:00 |
| pupnik | No, science RST38h -- happen to know some. | 17:01 |
| pupnik | Particularly cancer research.\ | 17:01 |
| w00t | pupnik: what's it going to do with that location? | 17:01 |
| RST38h | well...umm... | 17:01 |
| ShadowJK | use gprs, radio will do less than 1sec transmission for agps data | 17:01 |
| pupnik | k | 17:01 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: That is the most dangerous kind! | 17:01 |
| moo__ | in other news, looks like geotagging works perfectly: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/albumMap?uname=miohtama&aid=5414719434067431617#map | 17:01 |
| pupnik | i see we have some ability to disconnect cell radio using rmmod, but no way to enable again. | 17:02 |
| RST38h | Most modern foods are probably way higher on the cancer-inducing scale than your cell phone | 17:02 |
| moo__ | and ecoach also: http://www.mapmytracks.com/explore/track/activity-2009-12-13-141427/ | 17:02 |
| ShadowJK | put a fm/am radio next to phone, it'll go raptititap everytime the cell radio is active :) | 17:03 |
| derf | RST38h: http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ | 17:03 |
| SpeedEvil | moo__: not really | 17:03 |
| moo__ | ShadowJK: that should not happen anymore with 3G, I assume :) | 17:03 |
| moo__ | ShadowJK: i.e. its a feature of GSM | 17:04 |
| SpeedEvil | moo__: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6584 | 17:04 |
| povbot | Bug 6584: GPS geotagged pictures truncate precision of GPS reading. | 17:04 |
| ShadowJK | yes it is | 17:04 |
| ShadowJK | but the first step of my suggestion was to switch to gprs/edge | 17:04 |
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| moo__ | SpeedEvil: ah darn | 17:05 |
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| moo__ | SpeedEvil: luckily I don't need such accuracy | 17:06 |
| SpeedEvil | moo__: It's almost there - and nearly works OK. | 17:06 |
| SpeedEvil | moo__: but it's really inconvenient if you're tagging multiple close-together features | 17:06 |
| moo__ | which brings me to another question: could it be possible to create panorama pictures with the sense of direction (where is north) with n900? | 17:07 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 17:07 |
| SpeedEvil | There is no compass. | 17:07 |
| moo__ | ah. I thought there were, but it must have been N97... | 17:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | You can do it by registering the photos against each other. | 17:07 |
| lcuk | no, the stitching would have to be done based on features inside the images themselves | 17:07 |
| SpeedEvil | yes, that's what I mean | 17:07 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: really, why on earth does it reduce the accuracy? | 17:07 |
| lardman | rubbish | 17:07 |
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| lcuk | hey lardman | 17:08 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: I assume someone diddn't think hard about it. | 17:08 |
| moo__ | pocket cameras can do stiching quite easily | 17:08 |
| lcuk | yeah moo__ | 17:08 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: the default exif tags are specified as m/n | 17:08 |
| lcuk | its a reasonable algo | 17:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | lardman: so if you don't think - and just use /1 as the divider, you get integers | 17:08 |
| ShadowJK | compass+accelerometer+gps would never have enough precision for stitching anyway.. | 17:08 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: which leads to the ~30m grid | 17:08 |
| moo__ | ShadowJK: stiching must be done based on image features in any case | 17:09 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, depends on size you are trying to do | 17:09 |
| moo__ | ShadowJK: but if you have a panorama you would know which direction is which | 17:09 |
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| derf | ShadowJK: It would, but you'd need a $50,000 accelerometer. | 17:09 |
| wazd | daaamn, I don't want to go outside( | 17:09 |
| derf | s/accelerometer/IMU | 17:09 |
| lcuk | or many many samples | 17:09 |
| SpeedEvil | derf: accellerometer isn't so much the issue - if you assume stationary. | 17:09 |
| lcuk | and fake it with image stitching | 17:09 |
| lcuk | ;) | 17:09 |
| lardman | voted up | 17:09 |
| SpeedEvil | derf: Current gyros are good enough to do under a degree of error over a sensible pano time interval | 17:10 |
| derf | SpeedEvil: My company builds these systems. | 17:10 |
| ShadowJK | I'd have more faith in gyros than compass for stitching :) | 17:10 |
| SpeedEvil | derf: Ah - I just build them for a hobby :) | 17:10 |
| lcuk | werent people on about taking photos of actual compass | 17:11 |
| lcuk | it made me giggle | 17:11 |
| derf | Of course, our goal is sub-pixel registration error. | 17:11 |
| * SpeedEvil is looking at an I2C compass that he wants to strap onto the back of the accel chip. | 17:11 | |
| * lardman could do with a gyro for rocket stab | 17:11 | |
| lcuk | o_O lardman | 17:11 |
| * moo__ also voted for GPS precision bug | 17:11 | |
| lcuk | combine it withwhat lbt wants - putting n900s into hamster balls and rolling down a hill | 17:11 |
| lcuk | to do mapping of ski slopes | 17:11 |
| SpeedEvil | http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=1967220&k=HMC5843 - should actually just about work - with no issues. | 17:11 |
| SpeedEvil | but it means opening the case and soldering | 17:12 |
| moo__ | lcuk: if it's cheap for ski companies.. | 17:12 |
| * lardman heads home | 17:12 | |
| lardman | cu all later | 17:12 |
| SpeedEvil | wave | 17:12 |
| lcuk | moo__, indeed | 17:12 |
| lcuk | hundreds of balls | 17:12 |
| lardman | actually, what's up with Garage? Still down? | 17:12 |
| lardman | nm, will try later on | 17:12 |
| moo__ | can it be anything else but slow it it's running on PHP? :) | 17:12 |
| lardman | bye! | 17:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | moo__: you've clearly never been tagged as due North of the North pole :) [or in Paris, Haiti?] | 17:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | s/Haiti/Tahiti/ | 17:14 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: moo__: you've clearly never been tagged as due North of the North pole :) [or in Paris, Tahiti?] | 17:14 |
| moo__ | timeless_mbp: you know, barbarian people come from North | 17:15 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: what's the progress on that btw? | 17:15 |
| ShadowJK | location-test is cool, sats in view drops foron 7 to 0 when I move hand to top of screen | 17:15 |
| derf | All of the maemo services seem to die over the weekend. | 17:15 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: for me - it gets lots worse when the screen is up too - which is a pity | 17:15 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: screen up/keyboard down | 17:15 |
| derf | It's almost as if they have no idea that that is prime hacking time. | 17:15 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: dunno | 17:16 |
| timeless_mbp | i didn't actively file a bug about lat 104 deg N :) | 17:16 |
| timeless_mbp | the clock stuff missed the boat for the first service release | 17:16 |
| timeless_mbp | it was decided that it's too risky :) | 17:17 |
| w00t | shame | 17:17 |
| timeless_mbp | people will just have to use my package :) | 17:17 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll update it again maybe tonight and maybe push it to extras at some point | 17:17 |
| lcuk | derf, maybe, maybe not - would be nice to see some relative traffic analysis to back that up and then plan outages around. perhaps thats already being done and whilst we are vocal, we might not actually be the highest users | 17:17 |
| lcuk | this outage though was unannounced which hits people more | 17:18 |
| lcuk | i believe we normally have at least some warnings | 17:18 |
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| derf | lcuk: It's not just garage that's out. | 17:20 |
| * lcuk nods | 17:20 | |
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| ShadowJK | what else? | 17:21 |
| derf | extras-devel is not syncing with the autobuilder output, and hasn't been since early last night. | 17:21 |
| ShadowJK | oh that's why i couldn't find claws | 17:21 |
| derf | And most of maemo.org went belly-up last weekend (at least all the non-static pages). | 17:21 |
| red | SpeedEvil: http://www.speedtest.net/result/651363793.png -- tethering and nokia suite driver modem in default mode (4xx xxx bps) | 17:21 |
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| ShadowJK | monday morning/noon is surely safest | 17:22 |
| ale-x | why is that? provider problems? | 17:22 |
| ShadowJK | or whenever the sun shines | 17:22 |
| red | SpeedEvil: http://www.speedtest.net/result/651365171.png -- same but with maximum choice of 9xx xxxbps | 17:22 |
| derf | Yes, well. Some of us have jobs. | 17:22 |
| red | chokepoint clearly being the modem driver | 17:22 |
| ShadowJK | red: is that on device or with device as modem? | 17:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Is 'user should read the manual' always a valid response to a bug? | 17:24 |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6891 | 17:24 |
| povbot | Bug 6891: Device lock setup gives no way to set a lock code for the first time. | 17:24 |
| kynky | lol | 17:26 |
| kynky | as easy as 123 - 45 | 17:26 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: if you're nokia? | 17:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | we've been told internally, officially, that oddly enough, a large portion of our audience will read the manul | 17:27 |
| timeless_mbp | s/manul/manual/ | 17:27 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: we've been told internally, officially, that oddly enough, a large portion of our audience will read the manual | 17:27 |
| timeless_mbp | however, .... have any of you *found* the manual? | 17:27 |
| kynky | on the internet i did | 17:27 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes, I agree that users should read the manual - in fact I had. However I was out with my phone, and hadn't envisioned wanting to set a lock code, so skimmed that bit, and couldn't recall the code. | 17:27 |
| timeless_mbp | n.b.: if someone told you where the manual is, that doesn't count -- "shh!" | 17:27 |
| ShadowJK | ot could be worse. they could be like typical linux people and say that 12345 has been used since forever in every product and that surely everybody who's ever used a phone would know it | 17:28 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: I dig through all packages, so yes. | 17:28 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: i rather wondered where it was too, actually | 17:28 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: any advice on that would be good | 17:28 |
| w00t | (not that I need it) | 17:29 |
| kynky | and always set your lock code when you buy it, its not funny to show a mater your nokia n900 for him to set the code to something silly and then forget | 17:29 |
| kynky | mate* | 17:29 |
| ShadowJK | timeless: i saw the quickstart guide in the box and then after a week accidentally found the manual too | 17:29 |
| lcuk | the whole manual? | 17:29 |
| timeless_mbp | shh | 17:29 |
| timeless_mbp | no sharing | 17:29 |
| timeless_mbp | let people discover it for themselves :) | 17:30 |
| red | ShadowJK: the device as a modem | 17:31 |
| ShadowJK | the text is a bit small or the layout is kinda stupid | 17:31 |
| red | I got over twice the result in speedtest on the phone itself | 17:31 |
| red | but when coupled with a pc, the driver wont let me choose a speed higher than 921600bps | 17:31 |
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| red | even thought the connection is over 3x that speed namely | 17:32 |
| ShadowJK | mm.. on the phone itself I got 5mbit/s on my 2mbit/s connection with speedtest.net | 17:32 |
| timeless_mbp | red: do you really care? | 17:32 |
| red | I do, I tether alot | 17:32 |
| timeless_mbp | speaking as someone who has gotten phone bills recently... | 17:32 |
| red | and I'm paying for higher speed so I'd like to be able to ride on it for better performance | 17:32 |
| red | currently im at a place for nearly two weeks and using my desk pc with n900 tethering for the duration | 17:33 |
| red | no im not expecting ADSL2 rates and latency, but would be nice to get mover 921600bps, since seems the only reason im capped there is the modem driver? | 17:33 |
| kynky | i thought it was crazy that ppl used a n900 to tether a n8x0 | 17:34 |
| timeless_mbp | red: http://www.wirelessforums.org/alt-cellular-motorola/moto-usb-modem-port-speed-12-0-mbps-versus-921600-bps-44183.html | 17:34 |
| timeless_mbp | red: if you encounter a problem with windows (as above), please don't complain to the hardware vendor of your choice. try asking google. | 17:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | it sounds like it's an ms feature mostly | 17:35 |
| red | well that doesn't really surprise me :) | 17:35 |
| red | now I know where to start digging, thought I'm running Windows 7 | 17:36 |
| pupnik | http://brnz.org/hbr/?p=378 PS3 sixaxis bluetooth controller with N900 | 17:36 |
| RST38h | yahooo | 17:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | red: roughly, i think from reading this that "Maximium COM port speed is 921600 Baud" | 17:37 |
| jaem | kynky, lol | 17:37 |
| jaem | I carry both around with me wherever I go, and if I had money for a dataplan, I'd probably do that | 17:37 |
| timeless_mbp | so since the n900 probably appears as a standard BT COM device | 17:37 |
| timeless_mbp | you're unlikely to beat that | 17:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | simply put: you probably don't want to treat your n900 as a Modem if you want good speed | 17:38 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, dun is rfcomm-based, right? | 17:38 |
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| jaem | that's what you're saying? | 17:38 |
| timeless_mbp | i didn't say precisely that :) | 17:38 |
| timeless_mbp | he said he configured a modem | 17:38 |
| jaem | but is it wrong? O_o | 17:38 |
| jaem | ah | 17:38 |
| jaem | okay | 17:38 |
| ShadowJK | installing bluetooth drivers and pc suite is probably not a good idea | 17:38 |
| kynky | lol | 17:38 |
| jaem | I thought I read that | 17:38 |
| timeless_mbp | jaem: i'm incredibly cautious in my choice of words | 17:39 |
| ShadowJK | I assumed he was using usb cable | 17:39 |
| jaem | maybe I'm just crazy from reading BlueZ docs | 17:39 |
| timeless_mbp | for all i know, it might be possible to configure DUN to not use it as a modem | 17:39 |
| * jaem starts giggling histerically | 17:39 | |
| kynky | ppl jump on them at first sign of possible betterness ? | 17:39 |
| jaem | mwahahaah BlueZ | 17:39 |
| jaem | fun fun fun | 17:39 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 17:39 |
| jaem | sigh | 17:39 |
| red | usb cable yes, and the phone appears as a "Nokia N900 USB Modem (OTA)" | 17:40 |
| red | activating the connection by dialing *99# on the modem | 17:40 |
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| jaem | red, it might be possible to use PAN if your laptop has bluetooth | 17:41 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, any idea? | 17:41 |
| timeless_mbp | jaem: anyway, the first url i provided was a motorola usb modem :) | 17:41 |
| timeless_mbp | jaem: dunno | 17:41 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm very gunshy about pairing atm | 17:41 |
| red | jaem: I have a bluetooth dongle I can use np | 17:41 |
| timeless_mbp | my phone bills are scary, and i've gotten hit by 2 warnings in a row | 17:41 |
| timeless_mbp | which is something you aren't supposed to do | 17:41 |
| red | But with my level of expertise what I read about bluetooth tethering with N900 so far I thought best to stay away :) | 17:41 |
| ShadowJK | how come I have 460800 set as serial port speed for DUN over bluetooth, and get 1mbit speeds still... | 17:42 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, meh... Rogers told me that data overages were only 0.3 cents per MB | 17:42 |
| ShadowJK | (linux) | 17:42 |
| jaem | turns out they were off by two orders of magnitude | 17:42 |
| timeless_mbp | jaem: so how many mb would that be to get a bill of roughly 2000 CAD ? :) | 17:42 |
| jaem | but hey - Verizon can do it, so why not Rogers XP | 17:42 |
| kynky | tmobile in uk have 1GB/month limit, and dont caharge you if you go over, they just throttle, and thats just apparantly | 17:42 |
| red | you dont have a fixed cost for 3G? | 17:42 |
| red | data package i mean | 17:42 |
| timeless_mbp | red: it turns out that we don't | 17:42 |
| timeless_mbp | most people don't get free international roaming | 17:42 |
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| * timeless_mbp isn't sure such a package exists anywhere | 17:42 | |
| lcuk | which kills cos thats the time you need most non wifi data ;) | 17:43 |
| red | I don't think one does | 17:43 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, well, at the rate they *quoted* me, approximately 667GB | 17:43 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, that's a lot of CDs | 17:43 |
| jaem | however, at the actual rate, rather a lot less | 17:43 |
| timeless_mbp | (1000?) | 17:43 |
| jaem | 0.3 cents != 0.3 dollars | 17:43 |
| jaem | phail | 17:43 |
| ShadowJK | if it does, it's so small that one .js file on a webpage eats your entire bandwidth quota | 17:43 |
| jaem | ha | 17:43 |
| jaem | ShadowJK, have you heard of IrregularWebcomic? | 17:44 |
| ShadowJK | nope | 17:44 |
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| jaem | one of their strips was in the sci-fi story arc, and one of the characters asked why their "modern, space-age computer" was taking forever to load a webpage | 17:44 |
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| red | :D | 17:44 |
| jaem | the other guy responded that it was 1000 years of JS compatibility hacks | 17:44 |
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| jaem | takes a while to download :P | 17:45 |
| kynky | adblock is helpful, speeds u and reduces data useage | 17:45 |
| jaem | oh yes | 17:45 |
| ShadowJK | I was just remembering the doubleclick (or some other ad provider) that made firefox on 2.83GHz quadcore cpu hang for a minute. I looked at the offending .js, and it was 5 megabytes of something like decode("fivemegabytestringhere.... | 17:46 |
| kynky | although you prob wont want to, but you could use mobile versions of popular websites (i dont mean wap) | 17:46 |
| lcuk | switching to the html gmail page is also good | 17:46 |
| jaem | ShadowJK, blech | 17:46 |
| jaem | kynky, yeah, most of them are kind of lame | 17:46 |
| lcuk | err basic html | 17:46 |
| jaem | so much for "all of the Internet" being available on the iPhone :P | 17:47 |
| ShadowJK | I often browse without js because of this :) | 17:47 |
| jaem | I liked it when the UK ad standards board called them on that commercial | 17:47 |
| ShadowJK | and when roaming also without images | 17:47 |
| lcuk | jaem, all of it is, but sometimes the internet is even overpowering for my big pc | 17:47 |
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| ShadowJK | it depends on what all of the inernet means | 17:47 |
| jaem | lcuk, heh... well, okay, it wasn't a blatant lie, like some of their other marketing | 17:48 |
| ShadowJK | there's no computer capable of it | 17:48 |
| jaem | I don't mind most of their products, but they really have no shame | 17:48 |
| kynky | ShadowJK, all the stuff apple thinks important | 17:48 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 17:48 |
| jaem | ShadowJK, come on? You mean you don't download the Internet every week? | 17:48 |
| jaem | noob | 17:48 |
| lcuk | is tehre a place i can just get the internet on a cd or usb stick | 17:48 |
| jaem | I like to keep a backup with me at all times | 17:48 |
| jaem | lcuk, I'll mail you one | 17:48 |
| lcuk | tmo in pocket format | 17:48 |
| kynky | the internet archive :) , they beat you to it | 17:48 |
| ShadowJK | jaem: i got tired of the websites in vrml activex controls | 17:49 |
| kynky | you can already d/l ikipedia for offline viewing | 17:49 |
| jaem | I often wish I could just use scp to download my build server onto my N900 XD | 17:49 |
| jaem | too bad it doesn't work that way | 17:49 |
| jaem | hehe | 17:49 |
| lcuk | i have a regular list of sites | 17:49 |
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| jaem | kynky, I know, I have 3/4 of it on my N900 right now | 17:49 |
| lcuk | it would be good to determine my regular viewing habits | 17:49 |
| jaem | it's snappy :) | 17:49 |
| kynky | jaem, rsync :) | 17:49 |
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| lcuk | and dl them just before i set off for a commute | 17:49 |
| jaem | kynky, no, I meant download the *server*, for offline use, hence it being a joke | 17:49 |
| lcuk | the whole server? | 17:50 |
| jaem | I don't have a dataplan, so I can use ssh on the bus/skytrain | 17:50 |
| kynky | lol | 17:50 |
| jaem | lcuk, yes... ALL of it | 17:50 |
| jaem | all four cores | 17:50 |
| jaem | -snerk- | 17:50 |
| jaem | well, I suppose I'd have to leave some in my friend's dorm... it is running routing software for his LAN as well | 17:51 |
| jaem | but download the rest! bwahahaah | 17:51 |
| lcuk | so we can blame you when its running slow | 17:52 |
| lcuk | for blocking the tubes | 17:52 |
| ShadowJK | man, all these speedtest websites suck. mobilespeedtest.com results gives me 33% of real speed with smallest test size, and 170% of real speed with 1meg test siz | 17:52 |
| jaem | lcuk, no, no, i download the Internet to my N900 only once a week, just in case someone kicks out the plug | 17:52 |
| lcuk | oh, thats ok | 17:52 |
| jaem | or, you know, ejects the Internet by accident or something | 17:52 |
| lcuk | which day do you use, so i can choose an alternative | 17:53 |
| jaem | I play fairly.. I mean, downloading the whole Internet over my neighbour's wifi *more* than once a week would be bordering on rude | 17:53 |
| kynky | dont be selfish, give some back, torrent the internet | 17:53 |
| jaem | lcuk, my day is Tuesdays, or alternatively, whichever day you pick | 17:53 |
| lcuk | www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAUyaELfwBo | 17:53 |
| jaem | kynky, get your own Internets! | 17:54 |
| lcuk | http://www.videosift.com/video/This-Is-the-Internet-The-IT-Crowd for those that are blocked by youtube | 17:54 |
| jaem | lcuk, LOL | 17:55 |
| Macer | well | 17:55 |
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| jaem | that looks like a cheap project box with a panel mount indicator light | 17:55 |
| jaem | heh | 17:55 |
| Macer | looks like merlin set the dragon free | 17:55 |
| Macer | :) | 17:55 |
| Macer | and in the previews the dragon is fucking camelot up hahaha | 17:55 |
| Macer | reminds me of lodoss | 17:55 |
| ShadowJK | blocked by youtube? | 17:57 |
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| RST38h | poor camelot | 17:59 |
| RST38h | every movie or soap producer feels like making up his own camelot story at least once | 18:00 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, theres nohing wrong with that | 18:01 |
| jaem | lcuk, I swear we have the exact same chairs at my uni somewhere as were in that clip :P | 18:01 |
| lcuk | its like saying there cant be more than one mediaplayer | 18:01 |
| jaem | anyhow, apparently it's 8am | 18:01 |
| jaem | I should go to bed | 18:01 |
| jaem | g'night | 18:01 |
| lcuk | yes, you should | 18:01 |
| lcuk | gnite | 18:02 |
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| * lardman nearly just ordered 3kg of peppers | 18:03 | |
| lardman | I like them, not that much though | 18:03 |
| lcuk | heh | 18:03 |
| lcuk | btw lardman cloaks were given out to community members recently, did you not want one? | 18:03 |
| lardman | I've got one haven't I? | 18:04 |
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| lcuk | there wasnt one when you arrived before | 18:04 |
| LinuxCode | lardman, apparently not | 18:04 |
| lcuk | i was gonna ask when you came in | 18:04 |
| lardman | strange, says I have in the channel window | 18:04 |
| lcuk | hiya LinuxCode \o | 18:04 |
| jaem | what are the requirements for getting one? | 18:04 |
| LinuxCode | cloaks are for losers.... | 18:04 |
| LinuxCode | wait, where did that cloak come from | 18:04 |
| lcuk | :p | 18:05 |
| lcuk | fedora man | 18:05 |
| LinuxCode | ignore what I said earlier | 18:05 |
| jaem | LinuxCode, naw, I want a cloak... but a real one :P | 18:05 |
| LinuxCode | lcuk, hi | 18:05 |
| * lcuk has a jedicloak | 18:05 | |
| * LinuxCode has a cloak room | 18:05 | |
| Macer | RST38h: haha | 18:06 |
| kynky | smoking jacket , pipe and slippers | 18:06 |
| Macer | merlin is actually pretty good | 18:06 |
| Macer | and the english love it in the uk so it wont get cancelled soon | 18:06 |
| Macer | like firefly | 18:06 |
| Macer | haha | 18:06 |
| lardman | Macer: do you imply the welsh don't like it? | 18:07 |
| Macer | no | 18:07 |
| Macer | the US doesnt | 18:07 |
| kynky | i only seen the first episode of merlin | 18:07 |
| kynky | firefly was awesome | 18:07 |
| Macer | i forgot who ran it here but they arent going to anymore | 18:07 |
| lardman | does nothing for me, Merlin, and I'm English too | 18:07 |
| kynky | ik from uk | 18:07 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: kernel.org - the only speedtest site! | 18:07 |
| kynky | im | 18:07 |
| Macer | lardman: it is good. makes me laugh | 18:07 |
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| Macer | and i usually dont like british humor | 18:08 |
| kynky | its britsh humour ? | 18:08 |
| * lcuk finds his lack of remote control app in linux disturbing | 18:08 | |
| LinuxCode | lardman, I am with you | 18:08 |
| lardman | indeed the best in the world | 18:08 |
| kynky | peep show is british humour | 18:08 |
| Macer | ky/it sure was | 18:08 |
| Macer | firefly that is | 18:08 |
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| Macer | they should find the person that cancelled firefly and have them shot | 18:09 |
| lcuk | fed to the reivers (spelling?) | 18:09 |
| Macer | or shoot off their balls and let them live. that would be even better | 18:09 |
| fnordianslip | i notice some of you doing speedtests. i've just built iperf if you want a deb | 18:09 |
| Macer | sarah conner chronicles ending really sucked | 18:09 |
| lardman | rivers? | 18:09 |
| lardman | ;) | 18:09 |
| Macer | river tam | 18:10 |
| lcuk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaver_(Firefly) | 18:10 |
| lcuk | mmmmmmmm rivertam | 18:10 |
| Macer | how could you not love a place where all civilizations speak chinese and english? | 18:10 |
| lcuk | she kicks ass | 18:10 |
| Macer | :) | 18:10 |
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| lcuk | thought continuation in terminator pretty apt | 18:11 |
| kynky | an episode of her just picking things up from the floor ? | 18:11 |
| lcuk | who would win in a fight between rivertam and buffy | 18:11 |
| Macer | summer glau is hot in tha molester who wants to have sex with a girl of age kind of way | 18:11 |
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| Macer | she looks a lot younger than she is | 18:12 |
| *** guaqua has left #maemo | 18:12 | |
| Macer | anyways. have a few things to do blah | 18:12 |
| Macer | bbl | 18:12 |
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| lardman | who's thise? | 18:13 |
| lardman | this | 18:13 |
| lcuk | summer glau,played rivertam and a termainator | 18:14 |
| lardman | ah, the girl in that terrible terminator series? | 18:16 |
| lardman | strange name | 18:16 |
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| lcuk | strange girl lol | 18:16 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 18:16 | |
| * timeless_mbp likes the sarah connor chronicles | 18:16 | |
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| lardman | I only watched a random one | 18:17 |
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| lcuk | http://xkcd.com/406/ | 18:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: you mean hong kong? | 18:18 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, they ended it rly badly accordign to online stuff, ive not watched last few yet | 18:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcuk: :) | 18:21 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 18:21 | |
| * timeless_mbp isn't sure impersonation is enabled | 18:21 | |
| * timeless_mbp could have signed the last RESO INVA w/ -- summer glau | 18:22 | |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 18:22 | |
| timeless_mbp | reporters suck | 18:22 |
| timeless_mbp | is it really that hard to write a decent summary and steps to reproduce? | 18:22 |
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| derf | Yes. | 18:23 |
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| * lcuk karatechops javispedro | 18:23 | |
| * javispedro composites lcuk into a non fullscreened X11 window | 18:24 | |
| * lcuk breaks the boundary and calls up summer glau | 18:24 | |
| wazd | javispedro: forgot to ask, if my image for snes is fine :) | 18:24 |
| wazd | javispedro: I hope nintendo haven't patetns for vertical tubes :D | 18:25 |
| javispedro | wazd: I hope that too :) (*looks at SuperTux*) | 18:25 |
| ManuelSE_ | cpu load is full but top is not reporting any load | 18:26 |
| ManuelSE_ | something in phone | 18:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | lardman: ping | 18:31 |
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| lardman | hey timeless_mbp | 18:31 |
| timeless_mbp | change channel | 18:31 |
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| maemoswap | anyone know how to get the n810 to recognize swap partitions? | 18:32 |
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| lardman | timeless_mbp: to which one? | 18:34 |
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| lardman | I don't see my old pm window I'm afraid | 18:35 |
| lardman | have moved pc | 18:35 |
| suihkulokki | maemoswap: create a file named .swap and mkswap it on a mmc/internal mmc | 18:35 |
| timeless_mbp | l10n | 18:35 |
| * lardman thinks that with a name like that maemoswap should know how to enable swap ;) | 18:35 | |
| maemoswap | i thought swapon -a would have worked | 18:36 |
| maemoswap | so it won't recognize swap partions, only files? | 18:36 |
| javispedro | I'm using a swap partition on 810 just fine | 18:36 |
| maemoswap | javispedro: how did you get it to detect the partition? | 18:36 |
| javispedro | but dunno if busybox's swapon -a works | 18:36 |
| javispedro | I just enable it specifically (swapon /device | 18:37 |
| javispedro | ) | 18:37 |
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| naxxatoe | wazd: you getting forward with the ui stuff? | 18:38 |
| javispedro | aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh at tmo | 18:38 |
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| lcuk | it would be great if apps could expose their capabilities nd then have completely reskinnable ui on top | 18:41 |
| ifreq | still waiting LCARS for n900.. | 18:41 |
| lcuk | so people couldtheme them completely - like winamp used to allow | 18:41 |
| ifreq | *g* | 18:41 |
| javispedro | in fact winamp used a pretty generic theming/relayouting engine iirc. | 18:41 |
| lcuk | yeah it did | 18:42 |
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| lcuk | it was impressive to see the totally different experiences the different designers could come up with | 18:42 |
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| lcuk | i always stuck with the default one (still do, use winamp 2.81 here) | 18:43 |
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| siriusnetbook | hi | 18:43 |
| *** siriusnetbook is now known as siriusnova | 18:43 | |
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| siriusnova | so whats new in the Maemo 5 world for today? :D | 18:43 |
| lcuk | lol @ tumbleweeds | 18:44 |
| siriusnova | lol | 18:44 |
| lcuk | there has been some publication of new concepting and ui/ux ideas from the barcelona meetup last weekend | 18:45 |
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| lcuk | fm radio has shown some results and surprisingimprovements due to the excellent teamwork going on | 18:45 |
| lcuk | and xournal too with some wicked concepts | 18:45 |
| lcuk | and theres the evolution of a brand new gaming concept (sheepdog!)that kathy is working on in the tmo forums | 18:46 |
| Zeddy | any new and sexy apps or games for the n900 lately? | 18:46 |
| lcuk | Zeddy, sheepdog is just starting | 18:47 |
| siriusnova | not really | 18:47 |
| siriusnova | atm though N900 has a few good apps | 18:47 |
| lcuk | completely new andtotally maemo specific app that YOU can get involved in developing | 18:47 |
| siriusnova | but nothing iphony :P | 18:47 |
| Zeddy | oh | 18:47 |
| Zeddy | sounds cool :P | 18:47 |
| Zeddy | how do i get involved? :P | 18:47 |
| yuizy | sheepdog? :D | 18:47 |
| Zeddy | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=415068#post415068 | 18:47 |
| yuizy | wonder what the name means | 18:47 |
| lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36198 | 18:47 |
| lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36198 | 18:48 |
| lcuk | damn | 18:48 |
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| lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36698 | 18:48 |
| lcuk | better | 18:48 |
| siriusnova | herm | 18:48 |
| yuizy | cool | 18:49 |
| ifreq | will there be kismet for n900? | 18:49 |
| siriusnova | is there a way to set my N900 via internet time? | 18:49 |
| siriusnova | like ntp | 18:49 |
| ifreq | siriusnova: yes install nttpd | 18:49 |
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| ifreq | quoted from maemo.org: With out-of-the-box software, the N900 can automatically set its clock via information from the cell provider, like most (all?) phones. Network time protocol daemon (ntpd) is separate download from Extras/Extras-testing (I haven't checked which), but should be an easy one. It was always install-and-go on previous Maemo devices, and I don't expect that's changed with Maemo 5. | 18:50 |
| javispedro | if they updated ntpd to work with upstart, yes | 18:50 |
| siriusnova | i see openntpd | 18:50 |
| kynky | opennttpd doesnt adjust for drift like ntpd does | 18:51 |
| ifreq | why not trustin cell provider for current time then? | 18:52 |
| * cehteh wonders if ntp is power intensive because it needs to wakeup the cpu quite frequently | 18:52 | |
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| cehteh | i'd rather setup a hourly cronjob to query a ntp server if reachable (man ntpdate) | 18:52 |
| kynky | have ntpd update as infrequent as you like | 18:52 |
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| javispedro | ahaha! | 18:53 |
| javispedro | non composited mode seems to work well | 18:53 |
| cehteh | how that? | 18:53 |
| ManuelSE | u already said this javis | 18:53 |
| siriusnova | is it me or is the battery life on the N900 kind of crappy | 18:54 |
| javispedro | this time it is WITHOUT killing h-desktop | 18:54 |
| siriusnova | i had my N900 at 100% charged at 10am, by 3pm it was at 20% | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | siriusnova: kinda depends on what you're doing. | 18:54 |
| ManuelSE | very nice | 18:54 |
| javispedro | so you press the launcher button and it goes back to composited mode :) | 18:54 |
| siriusnova | and thats just with my 3G up checking my email | 18:54 |
| siriusnova | automatically | 18:54 |
| timeless_mbp | siriusnova: 20% sounds like a really precise measurement | 18:54 |
| siriusnova | thats kind of bad | 18:54 |
| javispedro | I found yet another SDL bug.. | 18:55 |
| siriusnova | timeless_mbp - well it was 20% of the meter | 18:55 |
| timeless_mbp | what brightness? and was it always on? | 18:55 |
| siriusnova | no | 18:55 |
| ManuelSE | u think this is safe javis? | 18:55 |
| siriusnova | it was sitting on my desk | 18:55 |
| javispedro | ManuelSE: yep | 18:55 |
| microlith | this thing sure likes to reboot | 18:55 |
| javispedro | hm.. I'm going to call myself to see what happens | 18:55 |
| timeless_mbp | pop? imap? MfE? ovi? | 18:55 |
| siriusnova | ovi | 18:55 |
| ManuelSE | can u upload the bin somewhere? | 18:55 |
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| siriusnova | nokia messaging exactly | 18:56 |
| siriusnova | i have 2 email accounts | 18:56 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, i couldn't remember how to spell it :) | 18:56 |
| siriusnova | so i was using nokia messaging to push email | 18:56 |
| timeless_mbp | but thanks for spelling it out | 18:56 |
| timeless_mbp | is it a strong 3g signal? | 18:56 |
| siriusnova | yes | 18:56 |
| * timeless_mbp tries to remember if one can disable 3g | 18:56 | |
| siriusnova | my office is opposite the tower | 18:56 |
| siriusnova | :p | 18:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | and you don't have wifi configured and it isn't set to search for wifi? | 18:57 |
| siriusnova | nope | 18:57 |
| timeless_mbp | and you aren't using the rss reader? | 18:57 |
| siriusnova | just 3G | 18:57 |
| siriusnova | wifi disabled | 18:57 |
| siriusnova | nope | 18:57 |
| timeless_mbp | and you don't have any widgets on your desktop? | 18:57 |
| siriusnova | well | 18:57 |
| timeless_mbp | bluetooth? | 18:57 |
| siriusnova | just a facebook one | 18:57 |
| timeless_mbp | um.. | 18:58 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 18:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh sure... i bet that *never* accesses the intarweb ;-) | 18:58 |
| siriusnova | still | 18:58 |
| siriusnova | for a phone that screams always on internet access | 18:59 |
| siriusnova | thats kind of bad | 18:59 |
| timeless_mbp | well, now you have something to try differently | 18:59 |
| timeless_mbp | um... | 18:59 |
| timeless_mbp | third party software can be well... crappy | 18:59 |
| timeless_mbp | you got 6-7 hours with it | 18:59 |
| timeless_mbp | which isn't actually that bad | 18:59 |
| ManuelSE | sirius battery life is much more variable with powerful machine like n900 than with weak machines | 18:59 |
| timeless_mbp | my laptop certainly doesn't last that long | 18:59 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, try w/o facebook tomorrow | 18:59 |
| timeless_mbp | see if that changes things | 18:59 |
| timeless_mbp | on tuesday, try w/ only one nokia messaging account | 19:00 |
| timeless_mbp | you don't have anything in your calendar, right? | 19:00 |
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| siriusnova | nope | 19:00 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, so you're relatively close to a plain device, pretty good. less testing for you :) | 19:01 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, my general view is that a device like this has one job: | 19:01 |
| timeless_mbp | do what you ask it to do | 19:02 |
| timeless_mbp | if you ask it to run its battery down in an hour, and it makes you happy in that hour, it did its job | 19:02 |
| timeless_mbp | it'd be better certainly if it could warn you that you've asked it to drain its battery, and i've been asking people internally to help there | 19:03 |
| javispedro | ManuelSE: I can upload a cmd line bin if you're interested | 19:03 |
| naxxatoe | why are ppl complaining about battery life? | 19:03 |
| naxxatoe | my n900 runs for 2 days now | 19:03 |
| timeless_mbp | naxxatoe: people will complain about *everything* | 19:03 |
| naxxatoe | and is like 30% battery remaining | 19:03 |
| timeless_mbp | that's how you can tell they're alive | 19:03 |
| ManuelSE | yes such a thing ! it would be so nice to compare speed | 19:03 |
| ifreq | naxxatoe: yes its all about how you use it | 19:03 |
| *** bobbyd has joined #maemo | 19:03 | |
| ifreq | i enable 3g/wifi only when needed | 19:03 |
| naxxatoe | same here | 19:03 |
| naxxatoe | also | 19:03 |
| naxxatoe | i dont use too many apps | 19:03 |
| naxxatoe | calendar/phone of corse plus a few apps from time to time | 19:04 |
| ifreq | yeh and well no need to poll for emails or facebook 24/7 | 19:04 |
| ManuelSE | did you show this to rst javispedro? | 19:04 |
| ifreq | ssh/email/msn/mediaplayer | 19:04 |
| naxxatoe | wifi auto scan/connect is off, no polling apps (except for cal) | 19:04 |
| bobbyd | hi, I might be being thick, but what do I do when my root partition gets full? | 19:04 |
| naxxatoe | and omvweather | 19:04 |
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| killefiz | I am connected to jabber and skype all day and 3g/wifi is always on - that gives me 8-10 hours of battery life | 19:04 |
| timeless_mbp | bobbyd: panic? | 19:04 |
| timeless_mbp | clean it up? | 19:04 |
| naxxatoe | witter on demand + ssh when i need it | 19:04 |
| javispedro | ManuelSE: RST38h bangs omapfb for full screen access, so theoretically he is not slowed down by hildon-desktop. | 19:04 |
| Macer | hm | 19:05 |
| naxxatoe | also, i listen to music 3 hours a day (using the defaultmedia player) | 19:05 |
| Macer | i need to find a good show to watch that i havent seen before | 19:05 |
| ManuelSE | javispedro -your solution work for sdl or gtkpix or ..? | 19:05 |
| killefiz | and those 8-10 hours aren't much worse than what I got on my iphone 3g with a similar usage pattern | 19:05 |
| naxxatoe | Macer: seen all the house episodes? | 19:05 |
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| ifreq | killefiz: yup thats truu | 19:05 |
| naxxatoe | killefiz: totally true | 19:05 |
| javispedro | ManuelSE: SDL | 19:05 |
| bobbyd | can I use the space that's mounted on MyDocs for the root filesystem? | 19:06 |
| Macer | naxxatoe: yes | 19:06 |
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| *** GiantTalkingCow has joined #maemo | 19:06 | |
| *** GiantTalkingCow has joined #maemo | 19:06 | |
| Macer | i am going to have to resort to greys anatomy soon | 19:06 |
| naxxatoe | Macer: do you like comics? or manga | 19:06 |
| Macer | sure | 19:06 |
| ManuelSE | thank you for your research javispedro | 19:06 |
| Macer | i watch anime all the time ;) | 19:06 |
| naxxatoe | try to get your hands on battle programmer shirase | 19:06 |
| Macer | is t anime? | 19:06 |
| naxxatoe | yes | 19:07 |
| naxxatoe | or ebichu (the housekeeping hamster9 | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: serial experiments lain? :P | 19:07 |
| naxxatoe | i recommend the .jp ones with english fansubs | 19:07 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: already saw it | 19:07 |
| Macer | i liked it | 19:07 |
| Macer | i watch a lot of videos on my phone heh | 19:08 |
| naxxatoe | altho the second one is more of quick humor whilst bps is more of a series and has better humor in my eyes | 19:08 |
| Macer | when im stuck somewhere doing nothing | 19:08 |
| naxxatoe | btw: any good programmers around that know how to build apps with user interfaces for maemo5? i have a few project ideas (as a it security guy my ui skills dont exist and the only thing realated to that i am good at is desighning them on paper xD) | 19:09 |
| moo__ | naxxatoe: qt designer? | 19:11 |
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| moo__ | it's simple as taking a candy from a child | 19:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | naxxatoe: IT security... I could imagine it - breaking legs in exchange for apps. | 19:11 |
| * SpeedEvil makes a list. | 19:11 | |
| lcuk | you dont need qt designers | 19:12 |
| lcuk | ui/ux is toolkit agnostic | 19:12 |
| naxxatoe | SpeedEvil: nah, all i do is root servers all the time and own client networks (we call that a penetration test) xD | 19:12 |
| * frals bashes his head against MfE | 19:13 | |
| w00t | frals: give it a whipping for me, please | 19:13 |
| lcuk | w00t, did you start following me on twitter | 19:13 |
| * frals gives MfE a whipping from w00t as well | 19:13 | |
| lcuk | or is it some other random w00t | 19:13 |
| *** eichi has quit IRC | 19:13 | |
| w00t | lcuk: *gives a shifty stalker look* | 19:13 |
| timeless_mbp | frals: do you have MfE configured? | 19:13 |
| w00t | (yes, it's me) | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | i need someone to look into something for me :) | 19:14 |
| lcuk | i best start following you too then | 19:14 |
| GiantTalkingCow | So, has anyone who's not a dev gotten their n900 yet? | 19:14 |
| SpeedEvil | GiantTalkingCow: yes | 19:14 |
| SpeedEvil | GiantTalkingCow: for high values of not | 19:14 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: I have it configured, with gmail, calendar sync only | 19:14 |
| frals | timeless_mbp: sorry, i tried and failed, it wont sync with my exch2007 for some reason | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: what lang are you using? | 19:14 |
| SpeedEvil | GiantTalkingCow: or low, depending on stuff. | 19:14 |
| w00t | GiantTalkingCow: what country? preorders have shipped out in a lot of places as far as I know | 19:14 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: norwegian | 19:14 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: I can change | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: en-us, please | 19:14 |
| lcuk | oh and frals too :D | 19:15 |
| SpeedEvil | GiantTalkingCow: UK specifically - got it 30th last mo | 19:15 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: via your package? | 19:15 |
| ifreq | got mine last week (Finland) | 19:15 |
| * frals does the good ol' :rolleyes: | 19:15 | |
| timeless_mbp | no, standard is fine | 19:15 |
| w00t | ok | 19:15 |
| w00t | one moment while I try figure out where I put my baby | 19:15 |
| lcuk | :D heh frals | 19:15 |
| GiantTalkingCow | Alrighty, thank you. I've not been keeping up with the news at all, and had heard of some sort of delay or other (internationally, not just in one country), so I figured I'd ask. | 19:15 |
| * lcuk has started following you oo | 19:15 | |
| lcuk | too | 19:15 |
| ifreq | frals: 2007 should work just ok, 2003 is buggy | 19:16 |
| naxxatoe | Macer: still around? | 19:16 |
| ifreq | frals: sure ex2007 dont have some sort of device id firewall list included? | 19:16 |
| ifreq | dunno the right them (not exchange admin) | 19:16 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: restarting now | 19:16 |
| ifreq | term* | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: thanks, ping me when it's alive | 19:16 |
| frals | nah it should allow any device (set it to allow non-provisional as well) so it *should* work | 19:16 |
| Macer | yeah? | 19:17 |
| ifreq | frals: okay. there shouldnt be no probs then with the 2007 | 19:17 |
| naxxatoe | Macer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyWYYqyM85E | 19:17 |
| naxxatoe | Macer: i figured i | 19:17 |
| frals | its failing with... AS-LIB: Retrieving sync keys failed with status 4. Abort retrieving estimations... no clue wtf it means thou, posted in the talkthread and hope mr vitaly sees it ;) | 19:17 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: shoot :) | 19:17 |
| naxxatoe | i should link you battle programmer shirase one episode | 19:17 |
| *** Brumle_ is now known as Brumle | 19:17 | |
| naxxatoe | so you can get a feel for it | 19:17 |
| naxxatoe | if you like it or not | 19:18 |
| LeoD | battle programer? :O | 19:18 |
| LeoD | that an anime? | 19:18 |
| naxxatoe | yup | 19:18 |
| Macer | heh | 19:18 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: open clock | 19:18 |
| Macer | is it about some young japanese student that programs huge mecha into saving the teacher who secretly loves him and wants to have sex with him? | 19:18 |
| timeless_mbp | is it using a 24 hour clock or a 12 hour clock? | 19:19 |
| Macer | :) | 19:19 |
| naxxatoe | Macer: no | 19:19 |
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| Macer | in asm | 19:19 |
| Macer | haha | 19:19 |
| * red reminds facebook addicts about lite.facebook.com for N900 purposes :) | 19:19 | |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: 12, I don't mind changing | 19:19 |
| timeless_mbp | 12 is what i want, good | 19:19 |
| w00t | k | 19:19 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, tap the clock in the system area | 19:19 |
| timeless_mbp | ctrl-shift-p | 19:19 |
| Macer | ok. let me take a look see | 19:19 |
| Macer | bbl | 19:19 |
| naxxatoe | Macer: watch the first episode and then tell me if you like it or not | 19:19 |
| timeless_mbp | what does it say under "Mail for Exchange" | 19:20 |
| Macer | hoepefully i can.. i think my phone is getting hit by cosmic rays | 19:20 |
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| w00t | "Last synced at 17:18" | 19:20 |
| naxxatoe | ah yeah, to remove cosmic rays you better attach a magnet to it *bofh* | 19:20 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: please disable automatic sync | 19:20 |
| w00t | k | 19:20 |
| timeless_mbp | (in settings or something) | 19:20 |
| red | is nuevasync worth the buy? | 19:20 |
| timeless_mbp | and then change today's date to tomorrow (and disable automatic date) | 19:20 |
| red | or can I sync google calendare with some other app? MfE doesn't quite cut it | 19:21 |
| SpeedEvil | what does automatic date do? | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | then get another screen shot and read the date | 19:21 |
| SpeedEvil | is it | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: pulls it from cell or maybe ntp | 19:21 |
| SpeedEvil | GPS or some other source, or network | 19:21 |
| w00t | er.. when I actually tap on the mfe button, i think the strings are a bit messed | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | at least in theory | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: no kidding | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | that's where we're going with this | 19:21 |
| siriusnova | uh | 19:21 |
| SpeedEvil | cell time can be very inaccurate | 19:21 |
| w00t | "Last sync: Today, 17:18\n : Synced" | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | but i need 2 shots, one for status | 19:21 |
| siriusnova | how do i use "top" to sort by memory usage? | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: oh, those are my strings | 19:21 |
| w00t | hm | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | the : disappears in a newer version | 19:21 |
| w00t | they shouldn't be.. | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | you can use control panel to switch back to Default | 19:22 |
| w00t | let me go look then | 19:22 |
| timeless_mbp | but yeah, we don't want my strings when filing this | 19:22 |
| * w00t restarts again | 19:22 | |
| timeless_mbp | too confusing for tiny people's minds | 19:22 |
| w00t | ok, that looks better | 19:24 |
| w00t | Status: Complete | 19:24 |
| w00t | let me go disable sync | 19:24 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: I now see "Last sync failed" in status area, is that what I'm wanting to see? :P | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: there's a reason i don't bother w/ some of that | 19:26 |
| *** GiantTalkingCow has quit IRC | 19:26 | |
| timeless_mbp | but, ignore that | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | disable time update | 19:26 |
| w00t | already done | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | and set date to tomorrow | 19:26 |
| Macer | yeah | 19:26 |
| Macer | couldnt watch that | 19:26 |
| Macer | it | 19:26 |
| w00t | if that's in clock settings | 19:26 |
| w00t | *nod*, done too | 19:26 |
| Macer | plays good on the G1 but the res makes the subs hard to read | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | go back to status area | 19:27 |
| w00t | mhm | 19:27 |
| timeless_mbp | what time does it show? | 19:29 |
| w00t | in the status area, it still strangely just has "Last sync failed", which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.. I wonder if it tried to sync before I got there to disable it | 19:30 |
| w00t | let me try bump the clock forward again | 19:30 |
| timeless_mbp | :( | 19:30 |
| timeless_mbp | you're going to need to get it synced once | 19:30 |
| w00t | ah, ok, I'll run one then | 19:31 |
| timeless_mbp | you'll need to fix the clock first | 19:31 |
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| w00t | o..k.. now it's back to "Last sync at 17:29" | 19:32 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders where this 'automatically set' time that's off by 30s is coming from. | 19:33 | |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 19:33 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: have I confused it? :P | 19:33 |
| javispedro | my N900 is nearly the 48h mark and I've even played quite a bit of bounce with it yesterday | 19:34 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: ok, disable sync? | 19:34 |
| timeless_mbp | move the clock forward? | 19:34 |
| javispedro | (battery, I mean ) | 19:34 |
| w00t | that was with: set date correctly to today, sync manual, set date to tomorrow, click status area | 19:34 |
| timeless_mbp | what time does it show in MfE? | 19:34 |
| w00t | 12/13/2009 17:29 | 19:35 |
| w00t | clock otoh says it's the 14th | 19:35 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 19:35 | |
| w00t | so it was changed ok | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | well, yeah, that's mostly ok | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | but the clock says it's 5:30pm? | 19:36 |
| timeless_mbp | (roughly) | 19:36 |
| w00t | yeah | 19:36 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 19:36 | |
| w00t | 5:32 atm | 19:36 |
| w00t | :33 | 19:36 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, picture of this view because it shouldn't show 17 for a 12 hr clock | 19:36 |
| timeless_mbp | then tap MfE | 19:36 |
| timeless_mbp | what does it show in that dialog? | 19:36 |
| w00t | ... well spotted | 19:36 |
| w00t | (I didn't even think about that) | 19:37 |
| timeless_mbp | shot+shot + find/file a bug | 19:37 |
| timeless_mbp | there's something odd here | 19:37 |
| w00t | MfE says: | 19:38 |
| wazd | I'm back | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | mine showed 13.12.09 (roughly) in one view | 19:38 |
| *** embedded has joined #maemo | 19:38 | |
| embedded | hi all | 19:38 |
| w00t | "Last synchronization: 12/13/2009, 17:29\nStatus: Complete\n\n\n[Synchronize manually]" | 19:38 |
| w00t | "[Details]\n[Settings]" on the lower right hand side | 19:39 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 19:39 | |
| embedded | who knows what's the default password for "sudo su"command on N900? | 19:39 |
| w00t | screenshotting | 19:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | so, i need to figure out why my datestamp didn't match yours | 19:39 |
| w00t | odd.. | 19:40 |
| Jaffa | embedded: There isn't one. | 19:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i can't imagine accidentally sticking in a backwards dotted format | 19:40 |
| Jaffa | embedded: The default root password is/was 'rootme', but you have no way of getting to it. Install the `rootsh' package from Extras and you can type 'sudo gainroot' or, more simply, just 'root'. | 19:41 |
| Jaffa | ~rootsh | 19:41 |
| infobot | from memory, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/ | 19:41 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: looks like how some european people write dates | 19:41 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: it is | 19:41 |
| timeless_mbp | but why would my enus enus device be using it | 19:41 |
| Jaffa | infobot, rootsh is also http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/rootsh/ | 19:41 |
| infobot | Jaffa: okay | 19:41 |
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| w00t | timeless_mbp: perhaps differing fw? I'm using straight out retail | 19:42 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not | 19:42 |
| timeless_mbp | which is why you're the one filing | 19:42 |
| w00t | yeah, but I mean | 19:42 |
| w00t | perhaps that's why your date is incorrect | 19:42 |
| embedded | jaffa : yes I know that application, so according what you said there is no other way to get root | 19:43 |
| Ceron^ | i want some good gps applications for my n900 | 19:43 |
| Ceron^ | ovi-maps aint even usable.. | 19:43 |
| Jaffa | embedded: There are many ways to get root. That's the easiest. | 19:43 |
| Jaffa | embedded: You could install OpenSSH Server and SSH into your device as root (it prompts for a new root password during installation); you could enable R&D mode; you could enable a different root-enabling package; you could try and use a privlege escalation exploit against the kernel; ... ;-) | 19:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: define usable | 19:44 |
| Ceron^ | do i really hafto? | 19:45 |
| Corsac | is maemo mapper still not usable on n900? | 19:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: osm2go? | 19:45 |
| Ceron^ | is it really that hard to see how bad ovi-maps is | 19:45 |
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| Ceron^ | il try it out | 19:45 |
| SpeedEvil | it's an OSm editor | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | what is wrong with ovi-maps? | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't see any fundamental flaws. | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | There are issues about GPS lock when it does not have a network | 19:46 |
| flux | ovi-maps seems really slow | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | and usability issues | 19:46 |
| w00t | they've been pointed out extensively on talk | 19:46 |
| w00t | it's very sluggish for a start | 19:46 |
| flux | other than that.. well, I haven't given it much use. | 19:46 |
| Ceron^ | this its its not possible to navigate with it | 19:46 |
| Ceron^ | even if i put it on follow me :D it doesnt work | 19:47 |
| w00t | it supposedly lacks some features, but since the n900 is my first non-exclusive gps device, well, I'd not know | 19:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | The lack of features are intentional. | 19:48 |
| range | Muhahaha. | 19:49 |
| range | What? | 19:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | It costs _lots_ more if you license maps for use in a device with turn-by-turn navigation. | 19:49 |
| range | There's someone at Nokia who says "Well, let's throw out all the good things about Maps on S60 when we port it to Maemo"= | 19:49 |
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| range | s/=/? | 19:49 |
| Ceron^ | yeh | 19:49 |
| Ceron^ | probally | 19:50 |
| timeless_mbp | range: roughly he's called "the guy who runs the schedule" | 19:50 |
| Ceron^ | SpeedEvil: seriously lack of feautures? i would call it an understatement | 19:50 |
| range | timeless_mbp: Sure, but I wouldn't call that "lack of features is intentional". | 19:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | i would : | 19:50 |
| Ceron^ | its completly useless | 19:51 |
| range | timeless_mbp: I'd call that "Well, we had to put something on there, but sorry, there really wasn't the time". | 19:51 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 19:51 |
| Ceron^ | even google maps is more usefull :D | 19:51 |
| timeless_mbp | Ceron^: to be fair, google maps (for web) doesn't include navigation | 19:51 |
| Ceron^ | yeh but atleast it makes routing that works | 19:51 |
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| Ceron^ | and gives good directions | 19:51 |
| Ceron^ | even if its not voice/step-by-step guided | 19:52 |
| SpeedEvil | I get sane routes from the map thingy | 19:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Do you not/ | 19:52 |
| Ceron^ | no i dont | 19:52 |
| SpeedEvil | why not? | 19:52 |
| Ceron^ | also it looses fix on me alot | 19:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Is it the map quality in your area, or algorithmic problems/ | 19:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Or UI? | 19:52 |
| Ceron^ | is the gps really that crappy or the software | 19:52 |
| range | timeless_mbp: I just want Maemo Mapper := | 19:52 |
| range | :) | 19:52 |
| Ceron^ | yeh give me maemo mapper | 19:52 |
| Ceron^ | il make my own charts :p | 19:53 |
| range | I don't need Navigation. | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | it's in extras-devel | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | maemo mapper | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC | 19:53 |
| Ceron^ | is it working? | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | dunno | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I've tried osm2go, and it works. But that's not really a mapping program. | 19:53 |
| Ceron^ | yeh :\ | 19:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | you saw lardmans link to how to sretup google platittude? | 19:54 |
| SpeedEvil | err latitude | 19:54 |
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| range | And I can understand that porting something like Ovi Maps takes time, but please put a "tech preview" sticker on it. Someone might begin to bash an otherwise (S60) good application :) | 19:54 |
| Ceron^ | SpeedEvil: no :O | 19:54 |
| Ceron^ | was it that online web app? | 19:55 |
| Ceron^ | i read about | 19:55 |
| Laiska | oh maemo mapper,I'd love to see that one also | 19:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | See http://talk.maemo.org/report.php?p=417739 | 19:55 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 19:56 |
| SpeedEvil | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=417739&postcount=59 | 19:56 |
| SpeedEvil | even | 19:56 |
| range | SpeedEvil: Close one :) | 19:56 |
| SpeedEvil | sorry | 19:56 |
| yuizy | can i install libqt4-dev on n900? | 19:56 |
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| yuizy | and in which repo is it if it is somewhere? | 19:57 |
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| yuizy | http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Creating_Debian_packages_for_Maemo_5_Qt_applications_and_showing_in_the_application_menu " | 19:58 |
| yuizy | Depends: libqt4-dev" | 19:58 |
| Ceron^ | maemo-geolocation <- what repository is that in? | 19:58 |
| yuizy | so i guess it's installable | 19:58 |
| Ceron^ | http://tomch.com/maemaps.html :O | 20:00 |
| timeless_mbp | yuizy: not a great idea | 20:00 |
| timeless_mbp | but you can | 20:00 |
| yuizy | ok | 20:00 |
| timeless_mbp | (you're likely to run out of space, which is a bad idea) | 20:00 |
| yuizy | yeah noticed it | 20:00 |
| yuizy | why does the example depend on libqt4-dev the? :( | 20:00 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 20:01 | |
| timeless_mbp | if it's in FN.c that's not our domain | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | complain to them | 20:01 |
| yuizy | well, i meant should i make it depend on something else :p | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | probably libqt4 | 20:03 |
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| Ceron^ | is openttd optified? | 20:05 |
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| Jaffa | Ceron^: maemo-geolocation is in -devel AFAIK | 20:05 |
| Ceron^ | yeh installed it now :p | 20:05 |
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| * microlith wonders if there isn't a bug in the wifi driver | 20:06 | |
| naxxatoe | how come? | 20:07 |
| microlith | whenever I have it activated, it's pretty much an inevitability that it'll reboot at some point | 20:07 |
| luke-jr | there are indeed bugs in the wifi driver at least for N8x0 | 20:07 |
| luke-jr | memory leaks for sure | 20:07 |
| PolarFox | N900 Bluetooth drops when I walk out of wifi reach ;) microlith, I've seen same kind of behaviour.... | 20:08 |
| bobbyd | no reboots for me at all yet | 20:10 |
| siriusnova | my n900 has rebooted a few times | 20:11 |
| Laiska | same here,but I've only used this for two days or so.. | 20:11 |
| Laiska | I mean no reboots yet | 20:11 |
| * Jaffa hasn't had any reboots with 42-10, which is good | 20:13 | |
| Jaffa | i.e. since the summit | 20:13 |
| * lcuk has never randomly rebooted | 20:13 | |
| lcuk | tho ive run out of power a few times | 20:13 |
| wazd | konttori: around? :) | 20:13 |
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| Laiska | just tested the the TV-out today, a really positive surprise.. | 20:16 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it's awesome | 20:16 |
| wazd | konttori: theme maker is stuck at 1% again :( | 20:17 |
| siriusnova | herm | 20:17 |
| Laiska | No need to drag a laptop with me for basic presentations @work :) | 20:17 |
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| bobbyd | when I try to install openvpn I get the following: | 20:17 |
| bobbyd | Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/l/lzo2/liblzo2-2_2.03-1maemo3_armel.deb Size mismatch | 20:17 |
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| bobbyd | anyone else having the same problem? | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | apt-get update | 20:18 |
| Ceron^ | why doesnt openttd have music :D? | 20:21 |
| Ceron^ | i loved the music in that game ;P | 20:21 |
| bobbyd | I think i tried that already, I'll try again | 20:21 |
| bobbyd | thanks | 20:21 |
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| kevloral | hi all | 20:22 |
| ManuelSE | ogg and mp3 can be equalised in frequency domain before sending to pulseaudio. | 20:24 |
| ManuelSE | without loading down cpu | 20:24 |
| wazd | Ceron^: I guess cause it's midi? :) | 20:24 |
| ManuelSE | and player can render at 48khz too | 20:25 |
| microlith | mmm rebootan | 20:26 |
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| microlith | oh, now it's stuck on the load thing with 5 circles | 20:27 |
| ManuelSE | so it is possible to make a mp3 playing program that uses less of the akku power | 20:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes. | 20:27 |
| SpeedEvil | The neo1973 - 200MHz - underclocked to 100MHz - would play mp3 with the right codec - with about 80% CPU IIRC | 20:28 |
| SpeedEvil | or actually - more like 50% IIRC | 20:28 |
| SpeedEvil | And that had no FPU | 20:28 |
| SpeedEvil | So with a FPU, and a 600MHz, not 200MHz - ... | 20:28 |
| microlith | fuck yeah, my N900 will no longer successfully boot | 20:28 |
| SpeedEvil | you've tried flashing it? | 20:29 |
| kynky | reflash b4 the battery dies ? | 20:29 |
| ManuelSE | at least it still boots | 20:29 |
| microlith | no | 20:29 |
| microlith | it won't boot | 20:29 |
| ManuelSE | unsuccessfully... | 20:29 |
| microlith | it's stuck on the 5 dots | 20:29 |
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| kynky | the graphical version of lilo :) | 20:30 |
| cehteh | you cant dual boot the n900 (2 kernels?) | 20:30 |
| GAN900 | microlith, did you fill up the rootfs? | 20:30 |
| kynky | cehteh, why not ? | 20:30 |
| microlith | GAN900: had 60MB free last I looked | 20:30 |
| ManuelSE | can we see bootup scrollby in console? | 20:30 |
| * microlith has been careful about that | 20:30 | |
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| cehteh | dunno that was a question | 20:30 |
| go1dfish | microlith: better flash before the battery dies or you'll be screwed without another charged battery | 20:30 |
| kynky | go1dfish, my sentiments exactly | 20:30 |
| go1dfish | I haven't bricked mine yet, but About product does give me a lot of (null) | 20:30 |
| microlith | go1dfish: awesome | 20:30 |
| ManuelSE | yes do not run down battery | 20:30 |
| go1dfish | microlith: charge control is in software | 20:31 |
| cehteh | why hasnt it some failsafe boot? .. which maybe only reflashes it to factory state | 20:31 |
| go1dfish | wont boot, wont charge | 20:31 |
| microlith | go1dfish: good to see it's easy to brick it | 20:31 |
| go1dfish | I think the fs layout on this thing was a bit of a blunder | 20:31 |
| kynky | cehteh, you mean like on windows mobile phones do ? | 20:31 |
| * microlith goes looking for how to reflash it | 20:31 | |
| cehteh | i dont know windows mobile :) | 20:31 |
| go1dfish | microlith: just pull the battery while you look | 20:32 |
| kynky | go1dfish, why was it a blunder ? | 20:32 |
| microlith | I have | 20:32 |
| go1dfish | kynky: the root partition is way too small, it's ridiculously easy to fill | 20:32 |
| kynky | cehteh, you can hard reset winmo phones to factory defaults | 20:32 |
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| kynky | go1dfish, i know its small, but why is that bad, it doesnt use the 32gb chip , but something faster, apps should be optified | 20:33 |
| microlith | do I need that nokia pc suite stuff to get the firmware? | 20:33 |
| go1dfish | cehteh: cortex is built to supposedly be unbrickable | 20:33 |
| go1dfish | it can boot from nearly anything | 20:33 |
| go1dfish | unbrickable in the permanently bricked sense | 20:33 |
| cehteh | hehe boot from barcode acquired by cam :P | 20:34 |
| kynky | maemo flasher to flash, you need your serial numberin phone to access the site with the nokia n900 roms | 20:34 |
| go1dfish | kynky: how big is your /usr/share/icons/ and what partition is it on? | 20:34 |
| go1dfish | mine was 40+ MB | 20:35 |
| kynky | so go1dfish, a candidate to be softlinked ? | 20:35 |
| naxxatoe | Macer: you there? | 20:35 |
| go1dfish | kynky: thats what I did, but what I'm getting at is I think you'll run into a lot of problems like that long term | 20:35 |
| GAN900 | ~flashing | 20:35 |
| infobot | flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 20:35 |
| cehteh | well having a compressed copy if the factory state nand on the emmc and a backup boot which just reflashes that (with password) pin ... at least some way to unprick it on itself without a 2nd computer available | 20:35 |
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| go1dfish | it's like an achiles heel | 20:36 |
| kynky | as maemo5 still in development, those things should be raised as bugs ? | 20:36 |
| microlith | why didn't nokia get their driver signed? | 20:36 |
| go1dfish | and the optification 'solution' feels quite hackish | 20:36 |
| cehteh | to make it possible that hackers cheat with it :) | 20:36 |
| kynky | why ? | 20:36 |
| kynky | why is it hackish ? | 20:37 |
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| go1dfish | /opt is really /home/opt | 20:38 |
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| kynky | maybe they shoulda just mounted partition on 32gb mem to /usr/ | 20:38 |
| go1dfish | I would prefer something like that, I think too many design compromises were made | 20:39 |
| kynky | well /home/<anything> normally a user dir | 20:39 |
| go1dfish | to facilitate having most of the device storage accessable as fat32 | 20:39 |
| GAN900 | kynky, eMMC is slow. | 20:39 |
| GAN900 | kynky, and it's mounted too late in boot. | 20:39 |
| jebba | kynky: the reason they didnt mount 32G at /usr was for flashing reasons. Kind of tough compromise, no one really has a better solution (yet) though | 20:39 |
| GAN900 | Plus that makes things brittle. | 20:39 |
| kynky | GAN900, thout wuld suggest having a bigger rot, would ave cost more money | 20:39 |
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| kynky | root* | 20:40 |
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| GAN900 | kynky, yes, sticking a bigger PoP in there would cost more. | 20:40 |
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| GAN900 | and bigger ones only recently became available in volume anyway. | 20:40 |
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| kynky | but i would guess certain parts in /usr should be moved to /opt and that should be done via raising bugs ? wth respect to the 40mb of icons thing go1dfish suggested | 20:41 |
| GAN900 | Nokia's not clueless. | 20:42 |
| cehteh | why doesnt it just --bind mount /usr to the emmc .. | 20:42 |
| GAN900 | Raising bugs isn't going to change things. | 20:42 |
| microlith | err, how does the nokia software updater function if the phone won't boot fully? | 20:42 |
| GAN900 | Since there are several reasons they're not there already. | 20:42 |
| GAN900 | cehteh, please read the scrollback. :) | 20:43 |
| kynky | wasnt suggesting that nokia were cluless , just thought user feedback through a proper process was good,, they can always ignore suggestions | 20:43 |
| GAN900 | microlith, flashing is handled by the bootloader. | 20:43 |
| GAN900 | kynky, these things have already been considered. | 20:43 |
| RST38h | Wow, someone compiled Claws for N900 | 20:44 |
| naxxatoe | whats claws? | 20:44 |
| GAN900 | and have not been implemented due to the reasons outline in the scrollback. | 20:44 |
| kynky | GAN900, well then thats really good, im just not sure what has and hasnt been considered | 20:44 |
| cehteh | GAN900: uhm .. ok use a unix filesystem .. instead usb-storage do usb networking and use samba to export the filesystem for the windows lusers | 20:44 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: it's not only windows stuff | 20:44 |
| wazd | RST38h: around? | 20:44 |
| wazd | RST38h: ah, yes) | 20:45 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: it's not completely unreasonable to expect to be able to plug the device into a printer as a camera | 20:45 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: or into a mp3 player that supports external flash | 20:45 |
| microlith | brb | 20:45 |
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| wazd | RST38h: Can you show me a screenshot of FBReader for Maemo5 please? | 20:45 |
| RST38h | wazd: yea | 20:45 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: a more complex way would be an indirect faked filesystem | 20:45 |
| RST38h | a moment | 20:45 |
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| cehteh | SpeedEvil: that means pict-bridge not usb-storage should be also solveable by software | 20:45 |
| javispedro | here be dragons | 20:45 |
| wazd | RST38h: thanks | 20:45 |
| wazd | RST38h: I was thinking bout making 48x48 icons instead of 32x32 | 20:46 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: for example - plug in device - the fs goes readonly - then a virtual FAT FS is made with all the files on it | 20:46 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: well i dont like this storage mode you cant continue playing mp3 while plugging it in for examle | 20:46 |
| go1dfish | SpeedEvil: yeah, something like that feels ideal, but given inconsistencies in how different devices might access fat, I don't know how feasable it would be | 20:46 |
| cehteh | but ymmv ... | 20:46 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: but that gets complex | 20:46 |
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| RST38h | wazd: well, looks like at least the hildon fullscreen icon fits | 20:46 |
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| pwnguin_n900 | man, dont leave wifi on overnight without power supplied | 20:47 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: on the other hand, get some devs which code a 'virtual fat' filesystem which is exported over usb as storage while there can be anything else underlying .. qemu had that at least readonly | 20:47 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: For example at least, you'd need to have an up-to-date database of the FS | 20:47 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: so you could fake it | 20:47 |
| cehteh | yeah | 20:47 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: I dunno | 20:47 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: I had goo dresults with that. | 20:48 |
| cehteh | well i am not interested in such functionality but imo it would be superior to the current state | 20:48 |
| kynky | at least there are no issues with implementing commercial vfat solutions (tomtom) | 20:48 |
| go1dfish | pwnguin_n900: you must have been transferring data | 20:48 |
| RST38h | wazd: fms.komkon.org/screenshot00.png | 20:48 |
| go1dfish | any sort of constant data transfer, no matter how small, really drains the battery | 20:48 |
| cehteh | i will just happily reformat my device with ext4 and turn the usb stroage stuff off :) | 20:48 |
| go1dfish | i.e. if you leave ssh connected to a screen session running irssi all night... | 20:48 |
| kynky | SpeedEvil, if not an uptodate daabase, then a mapping would be good | 20:48 |
| go1dfish | it's gonna die | 20:48 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin; ssh'd into n900, doing while true;do sleep 20;echo battery;done - lasted >24h using 80% bat | 20:49 |
| kynky | cehteh, me2 :) but not ext4, ext3 instead | 20:49 |
| RST38h | wazd: this is the new version with somewhat changed toolbar contents | 20:49 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: you can't do that - you've got to make the FAT FS at plug-in time | 20:49 |
| SpeedEvil | (virtual fs) | 20:49 |
| pwnguin_n900 | goldfish: i was syncing via banshee, but i shut that down when i went to sleep | 20:49 |
| cehteh | kynde: well maybe ext3 .. depends on the kernel version available then .. while ext4 performs much better with its delayed allocation and extend things | 20:50 |
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| pwnguin_n900 | omweather is only updatin every 4 hours | 20:50 |
| go1dfish | pwnguin_n900: IM accounts? | 20:50 |
| cehteh | less writes on the flash, better performance, less wear ... | 20:50 |
| kynky | cehteh, reason not for ext4 is purely because of its maturity, data integrity is more important to me than minimal speed increase | 20:50 |
| pwnguin_n900 | go1dfish: just skype | 20:50 |
| cehteh | in newer kernels you can also make ext4 without journal | 20:51 |
| go1dfish | I've heard skype is a bit heavier batterywise than jabber/gtalk | 20:51 |
| kynky | ext2 ? :) | 20:51 |
| go1dfish | but not so bad as the msn plugin | 20:51 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a pity SD/MMC don't support 'don't care about block' yet | 20:51 |
| cehteh | kynky: ext4 is kindof mature yet, and having metadata checksumed is actually a advantage over ext3 | 20:51 |
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| cehteh | and hey its only a mobile device i make backups anyways | 20:51 |
| microlith | nsu seems to be a no-go | 20:52 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: there are actually theoretical problems with that | 20:52 |
| pwnguin_n900 | is powertop available? | 20:52 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I know. | 20:52 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: but it's better than the current solutions. | 20:52 |
| cehteh | i am also tempted to try btrfs someday there, only depends if newer kernels will be maintained for the n900 | 20:52 |
| go1dfish | pwnguin_n900: yeah, but requires debug symbols in the app | 20:52 |
| kynky | cehteh, i just heard few horror stories with ext4 thats all, would give it at least a year before i move my data to it | 20:52 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: that is - where the SD/MMC card has to try and guess | 20:52 |
| cehteh | (wile btrfs is not ready yet for sure) | 20:52 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: eg, if you put the SD card into a Windows PC, will the first read have it detect corruption and wipe the data? | 20:52 |
| cehteh | kynky: i am using ext4 on a lot machines without problems | 20:53 |
| go1dfish | pwnguin_n900: or at least, I have the powertop binary on my phone, but it hasn't done me any good | 20:53 |
| microlith | luke-jr: it'll ask you to format it | 20:53 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: err - I think we're talking at cross purposes. | 20:53 |
| luke-jr | microlith: not that | 20:53 |
| go1dfish | don't recall which repo it's in | 20:53 |
| kynky | cehteh, alot of ppl say te same, but with data loss, im more paranoid | 20:53 |
| cehteh | there where the problems with improperly written apps which may loose data under rare circumstances .. but thats fixed too | 20:53 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: I mean if you try to access a SD used as MTD as block mode | 20:53 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: trying to read a block would probably wipe the MTD data | 20:53 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I mean - rm file. If you can tell the SD card that you no longer want any of the blocks in that file, it can now bulk erase them and get them ready for re-use. | 20:54 |
| cehteh | well the only insurace against data loss are backups .. point | 20:54 |
| GAN900 | cehteh, read more of the scrollback. :) | 20:54 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: my point is that MTD and block mode need to be exclusive :p | 20:54 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: rather than trying to assume that all user-visible blocks are wanted forever | 20:54 |
| cehteh | GAN900: why? | 20:54 |
| cehteh | not interest :) | 20:54 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I'm not quite arguing that. | 20:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I'm arguing that explicit 'I don't care about this block' commands - that would functionally erase the block - could improve performance. | 20:55 |
| kynky | cehteh, yep always have backups :) , and on an unrelated note , raid isnt backups | 20:55 |
| cehteh | oh really? :) | 20:55 |
| pwnguin_n900 | android had an interesting powe on demand approach. not sure how they handle latency | 20:55 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Due to the large erase block size in reality | 20:56 |
| cehteh | well and not all data is *that* valuable .. some mp3's on my phone who cares ... | 20:56 |
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| javispedro | SpeedEvil: so you want TRIM support? ;) | 20:56 |
| kynky | not all data is the same :) | 20:56 |
| cehteh | pics/videos .. ok .. lets transfer them to another machine | 20:56 |
| GAN900 | cehteh, then do assume things. ;) | 20:56 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: yeah - that's what it's called | 20:56 |
| serios | Nokia needs to update ovi maps and release ovi suite like | 20:57 |
| GAN900 | cehteh, FAT is far from the only issue involved. :) | 20:57 |
| serios | yesterday | 20:57 |
| serios | :( | 20:57 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: TRIM in SD/MMC | 20:57 |
| * RST38h moos at javispedro | 20:57 | |
| javispedro | hiyo RST38h | 20:57 |
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| cehteh | GAN900: i seen speed .. what else? | 20:57 |
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| cehteh | whats the latency nand vs emmc (some mmc/sd controlers have quite high latencies sometimes) | 20:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | cehteh: quite a bit better - AIUI | 20:59 |
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| ManuelSE | who has built tear+mplayer as alternative video web browser? | 20:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Nand seems to be a little faster than mmc in all the tests I've done | 20:59 |
| cehteh | instead bind mount a unionfs would be another solution .. but well dont say i recommend that | 20:59 |
| ManuelSE | i can get some flash to play using low quality | 21:00 |
| RST38h | mmc is effectively nand | 21:00 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: it's really not | 21:00 |
| kynky | sdxc wil have lower latency , but then that will use stupid exfat, although whats the lowest latency external mem cards you can use for n900 ? | 21:00 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: mmc has a flash controller in front of it. | 21:00 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: for throughput sure .. but i would be interested in write latency, what you maybe dont really want to test :) | 21:00 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: the SoC is the controller for the NAND | 21:00 |
| RST38h | Speed: Behind which, there is NAND | 21:00 |
| RST38h | Speed: And, actually, every NAND chip has a controller :) | 21:01 |
| kynky | cehteh, aufs > unionfs :) lots of work been done on linux-live-tools project | 21:01 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: yes - I know. The control of the flash controller at low level gives you certain options with NAND that you don't have with NAND behind a MMC controller | 21:01 |
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| kynky | ManuelSE, mplayer wont be using the dsp though | 21:01 |
| cehteh | the state of unionfs on linux is kindof insane .. people use it successfully but i wont hold my hand in fire for it | 21:01 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: I will. | 21:02 |
| * SpeedEvil holds cehtehs hand in the fire. | 21:02 | |
| cehteh | outch :P | 21:02 |
| SpeedEvil | unionfs and aufs are interesting | 21:02 |
| * cehteh installs a unionfs on SpeedEvils n900 | 21:02 | |
| SpeedEvil | and needed - but yes | 21:02 |
| SpeedEvil | along with flash on swap patches | 21:02 |
| cehteh | compcache ramzswap ... | 21:03 |
| SpeedEvil | not quite | 21:03 |
| cehteh | well its really nice i used it on my laptop | 21:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I haven't seen any swap patches that remove any of the disk assumptions. | 21:03 |
| jebba | i'm going to rebuild 2.6.28 kernel packages and enable things like console bootup output. Any other suggestions for nice things to have in the kernel that aren't there now? | 21:03 |
| cehteh | gives noticeable performance improvements | 21:03 |
| cehteh | disk assumptions? as in rotating media? | 21:03 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - readahead is essentially useless on swap-flash, and you really, really want to do linear writes. | 21:03 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 21:04 |
| * microlith attempts n900 recovery, pt.2 | 21:04 | |
| luke-jr | jebba: kexec? | 21:04 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~msaxena/FlashVMpaper.html | 21:04 |
| cehteh | compcache has a ssd mode and checks the rotational flag | 21:04 |
| naxxatoe | Macer: you there? | 21:04 |
| kynky | http://www.linux-live.org/ guy behind this really working hard for linux to be used on flash and ways of getting linux file support on fat partitions, he came up with good ideas on how todo things | 21:04 |
| cehteh | well first and foremost it swaps to ram compressed .. which beats any disk even SSD's | 21:05 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: yes. | 21:05 |
| cehteh | i am more concerned about the kernel future on the n900 .. will nokia maintain newer kernels for it? | 21:05 |
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| kynky | mount noatime :) | 21:05 |
| wazd | RST38h: Have I lost something? :) | 21:05 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: unlikely | 21:06 |
| cehteh | i guessed so | 21:06 |
| Myrtti | herm | 21:06 |
| wazd | RST38h: I have stupid IRC history in Miranda | 21:06 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: Nokia tends to drop support for ProductX long before ProductY is released | 21:06 |
| SpeedEvil | I think it's likely that there will be some kernel updates. | 21:06 |
| Myrtti | my irssi just freaked out | 21:06 |
| cehteh | so next .. will the community do so? | 21:06 |
| SpeedEvil | I think it unlikely it will continue forever. | 21:06 |
| jebba | cehteh: hopefully whatever they've done for n900 will be in linux-omap (or even linus) kernel. | 21:06 |
| felipec | cehteh: not really, but there are many developers who are and will continue to push patches upstream | 21:06 |
| derf | SpeedEvil: Not if past history is any guide. | 21:06 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: see N810. 2.6.21 only | 21:06 |
| ali1234 | jebba: a lot of it already is in | 21:06 |
| kynky | so changes nokia made for linux kernel wont be adopted im main kernel sources ? surely thats upto kernel maintainers ? | 21:07 |
| cehteh | luke-jr: well n810 has some closed source problems | 21:07 |
| cehteh | the n900 kernel is not tainted | 21:07 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: I dunno how much discussion nokia has been doing behind closed doors. | 21:07 |
| luke-jr | kynky: mainline won't take anything for proprietary drivers, legal or not | 21:07 |
| cehteh | so at least in theory the community can maintain newer kernels for it | 21:07 |
| jebba | ali1234: ya, but it's the parts that aren't there that are often critical. I did a linux-omap git kernel from the other day and it didn't go so hot. Or too hot, perhaps! | 21:07 |
| derf | Actually, prior to Diablo, N8x0 was 2.6.18. | 21:07 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: N810's violations were addressed | 21:07 |
| felipec | what's tainted for the n810? I thought everything is upstream now | 21:07 |
| derf | So I take that back, they _did_ upgrade the kernel. | 21:07 |
| luke-jr | derf: o really? interesting | 21:08 |
| ali1234 | jebba: you probably had the wrong branch, a lot of stuff is in for-next still | 21:08 |
| luke-jr | the problem is that Nokia is a jerk and won't release code for the battery charging | 21:08 |
| jebba | ali1234: there is no for-next branch in linux-omap. Though I did see a lot of *huge* merges yesterday, so may give it another shot. | 21:08 |
| luke-jr | so the battery charging glue will always be an additional patch | 21:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: or reverse | 21:09 |
| cehteh | luke-jr: as long its just firmware which needs to be loaded thats not a problem (but still nasty) | 21:09 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: ? | 21:09 |
| kynky | unless it gets reverse engneered ? | 21:09 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: it's not firmware, it's software | 21:09 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: or it is reverse engineered | 21:09 |
| cehteh | luke-jr: for the n900? | 21:09 |
| felipec | luke-jr: on user-space side, isn't it? | 21:09 |
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| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: you might recall I am the only one to ever attempt to reverse engineer it | 21:09 |
| cehteh | kernel i mean | 21:09 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: no, you're not. | 21:10 |
| luke-jr | felipec: yes, but needs kernel glue | 21:10 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: AFAIK | 21:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | (for low levels of attempt) | 21:10 |
| felipec | luke-jr: and the kernel glue is not available? | 21:10 |
| * SpeedEvil wants to look at it some more. | 21:10 | |
| cehteh | well the kernel glue is available in source so it can be maintained on newer kernels | 21:10 |
| luke-jr | felipec: it is, but will never be merged | 21:10 |
| ali1234 | jebba: i meant omap-for-linus | 21:10 |
| kynky | would be useful; for mer project i guess ? | 21:10 |
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| jjmarin | Hi, is there any official position about the support of maemo n900 on Nokia N900 ? | 21:10 |
| luke-jr | jjmarin: that doesn't even make sense | 21:11 |
| microlith | alas | 21:11 |
| microlith | it lives again | 21:11 |
| kynky | lol | 21:11 |
| cehteh | luke-jr: well i would say the maemo/n900 community should maintain their own kernel | 21:11 |
| jjmarin | s/maemo n900/maemo 6/ | 21:11 |
| infobot | jjmarin meant: Hi, is there any official position about the support of maemo 6 on Nokia N900 ? | 21:11 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: I would say Nokia needs to stop being jerks and let us maintain all the drivers | 21:11 |
| cehteh | luke-jr: i dont count on that | 21:11 |
| luke-jr | jjmarin: AFAIK it's planned | 21:11 |
| javispedro | jjmarin: the official position is NO, said by the vicepresident of n-series himself. | 21:11 |
| cehteh | better do what we can do | 21:12 |
| GAN900 | luke-jr, that claim is quite false. | 21:12 |
| GAN900 | luke-jr, you're nowhere near the first. | 21:12 |
| GAN900 | Capacitive bullshit. | 21:13 |
| luke-jr | GAN900: that just makes things worse | 21:13 |
| jebba | ali1234: do you know about linux-omap-dss2/linux.git ? Why is that not in linux-omap? Also, which is preferred for n900? thx | 21:13 |
| felipec | jebba: dss2 is now upstream | 21:13 |
| * cehteh thinks he should setup a n900 kernel git on his server ... merge omap and linus kernel plus nokias stuff | 21:13 | |
| kynky | cehteh, ++ | 21:13 |
| jebba | cehteh: that would be fantastic. | 21:13 |
| cehteh | then see if we can gather some people who work on it taking to each new kernel release | 21:13 |
| felipec | luke-jr: why can't you maintain the upstream stuff? | 21:13 |
| felipec | it's not like Linus would favor Nokia maintainers | 21:14 |
| cehteh | well i dont have time to do that alone i can support git and serve the repository and do *some* merging but not all | 21:14 |
| cehteh | and i still dont have a device .. | 21:14 |
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| cehteh | and moreover if i have only one device i dont want to brick it with kernel experiments :P | 21:14 |
| wazd | Can anybody show me FBReader for Maemo 5? | 21:14 |
| kynky | as long as there a clear seperation of kernel to binary blobs, all should be good ? | 21:14 |
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| jjmarin | So, there is more "No" than "Yes", only one | 21:14 |
| RST38h | wazd: I gave you the url | 21:15 |
| ali1234 | jebba: don't know for sure, you'll have to check the ml archive - search for rx-51 stuff, and anything posted from a nokia.com email address | 21:15 |
| jebba | felipec: well there are changes to linux-omap-dss2 as of last friday. | 21:15 |
| RST38h | wazd: fms.komkon.org/screenshot00.png | 21:15 |
| cehteh | kynky: 'good' would be overestimated :) .. call it 'doable' | 21:15 |
| * RST38h reboots to linux | 21:15 | |
| wazd | RST38h: ah | 21:15 |
| wazd | RST38h: sorry | 21:15 |
| cehteh | so .. bbl | 21:15 |
| pwnguin_n900 | kynky: im sure you'll get a letter from greg k-h | 21:15 |
| kynky | :) | 21:15 |
| jjmarin | any url about the support of maemo 6 on Nokia N900, or only the declarations about Maemo on Nokia Forum. | 21:16 |
| ali1234 | jebba: or just wait and see what shows up in 2.6.33 | 21:16 |
| pwnguin_n900 | kynky: ubuntu gets around the binary kernel blob by having the user link it at startup | 21:16 |
| luke-jr | felipec: ? | 21:16 |
| courmisch | I don't recall any binary blob in the official N900 kernels | 21:17 |
| courmisch | if you exclude peripheral firmwares | 21:17 |
| luke-jr | courmisch: the kernels contain glue for the binary blob in userland | 21:17 |
| courmisch | yeah, that's called the kernel API | 21:17 |
| kynky | well with all the smart ppl here, im sure some sort of solution can be figured out | 21:17 |
| wazd | RST38h: thanks | 21:17 |
| wazd | RST38h: do you think 48x48 icons will fit? | 21:17 |
| wazd | RST38h: looks like it | 21:18 |
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| luke-jr | courmisch: that's called a loophole in the GPL exception | 21:18 |
| RST38h | wazd: hildon fullsize icon fits as you see | 21:18 |
| RST38h | so, yes, maybe | 21:18 |
| wazd | RST38h: no, I mean fit the width :) | 21:18 |
| pwnguin_n900 | hmm. if its tivoized , greg cant do much but cry or write the drivers himsef | 21:18 |
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| kynky | lol | 21:18 |
| RST38h | wazd: Ah...should try | 21:18 |
| courmisch | so you'd basically ban any non-GPL software from running on Linux | 21:18 |
| luke-jr | pwnguin_n900: what? tivoized is signed kernels... | 21:19 |
| ali1234 | it isn't tivoized (yet) | 21:19 |
| felipec | luke-jr: you said Nokia should you maintain the drivers... what's preventing you from doing that? | 21:19 |
| flux | regarding me wondering AAC+ network streaming energy performance: 7 hours 15 minutes on AAC+ over WLAN. (also an openvpn connection but I'm sure it's just noise in that number) | 21:19 |
| luke-jr | courmisch: no, I said it's a loophole in the exception, not a problem with the exception itself | 21:19 |
| luke-jr | felipec: no code | 21:19 |
| pwnguin_n900 | luke-jr: i thought it also had a bunch of userland components | 21:19 |
| GAN900 | ali1234, Maemo 6 wont be tivoized either. Go back and re-read the platsec talk. :) | 21:20 |
| luke-jr | pwnguin_n900: probably, but I've never had any experience with Tivo, and the term 'tivoized' to me means that problem | 21:20 |
| felipec | luke-jr: apt-get source kernel? | 21:20 |
| courmisch | well, the DRM will be tivoized according to current plans | 21:20 |
| luke-jr | felipec: these drivers are not in the kernel | 21:20 |
| ali1234 | GAN900: i was at that talk, and i understand it to be saying that maemo 6 has the ability to be tivoized but "trust us, we won't" basically | 21:20 |
| felipec | luke-jr: on the N900? | 21:20 |
| luke-jr | felipec: that is my understanding | 21:21 |
| luke-jr | I only have a N810 | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: blog about the issue and stop complaining | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:21 |
| wazd | RST38h: why the hell it have "rotate" button I wonder :) | 21:21 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: we're discussing, not complaining | 21:21 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: he asked why I couldn't just maintain it myself | 21:21 |
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| wazd | has* | 21:21 |
| courmisch | all drivers are in the SDK, but some I doubt they can ever be merged | 21:21 |
| RST38h | wazd: I added it there =) | 21:21 |
| wazd | RST38h: ah :) | 21:21 |
| wazd | RST38h: autorotate doesn't work well? | 21:22 |
| RST38h | wazd: because when you read on the tablet, you often feel the urge to rotate it | 21:22 |
| RST38h | autorotate is not implemented | 21:22 |
| wazd | RST38h: oooh | 21:22 |
| go1dfish | RST38h: it's implemented on some apps | 21:22 |
| wazd | RST38h: that makes sense :) | 21:22 |
| go1dfish | like the photo app | 21:22 |
| * ljp hates autorotate | 21:22 | |
| kynky | they managed to get linux working on htc devices by sorting out driver issues, im sure the same can be done for n900 (sorting out driver issues that is, with n900 being noted as nokia as one of the most open devices around) | 21:23 |
| derf | I'm with ljp. | 21:23 |
| wazd | go1dfish: we're talking bout particular FBReader | 21:23 |
| go1dfish | oh sorry | 21:23 |
| kynky | autorotate is all well and good, but when you got it, it sometimes is really annoying | 21:23 |
| go1dfish | did FBReader get optified yet? | 21:23 |
| RST38h | oh shit, sb2 decided to update itself | 21:23 |
| ali1234 | kynky: a lot of the ktc-linux is reverse engineered drivers from scratch | 21:23 |
| ali1234 | *htc | 21:23 |
| go1dfish | I've been using FBReader on my zaurus's for years | 21:24 |
| kynky | ali1234, exactly , if thats the only way, than thats the only way | 21:24 |
| go1dfish | autorotate based on the accelerometer in FBReader would be annoying, but it would be cool to have an option to make it switch like the phone app, based on keyboard slider | 21:24 |
| derf | Yes... rotating is good. It's the "auto" that's the problem. | 21:24 |
| ali1234 | kynky: sure, and it's a lot easier to reverse engineer binary drivers when they're running on linux, then when they're running on windows mobile | 21:24 |
| naxxatoe | wazd: did you change the ui around already? if so, post a screenshot pls (shorten thru tinyurl or so) | 21:26 |
| * RST38h is seriously thinking about disabling text copy in FBReader by default | 21:26 | |
| kynky | guess it helps the linux on htc devices stuff,now that htc are pushing android | 21:26 |
| RST38h | This shit never ever works on NITs | 21:26 |
| RST38h | Anyone would like it enabled? | 21:26 |
| kynky | RST38h, just the same way as xtermminal deals with text copy ? | 21:26 |
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| RST38h | kynky: well why not you install current fbreader and find out for yourself? | 21:27 |
| go1dfish | RST38h: my vote is for disabled | 21:27 |
| RST38h | More votes? | 21:27 |
| luke-jr | kynky: I suspect a big part of it is that 100% of Linux developers for HTC are working on it, whereas because Nokia ships Linux, only 1% of Linux developers on Nxx0 care to fix the problem | 21:27 |
| kynky | luke-jr, very true | 21:27 |
| kynky | RST38h, you had a screenshot ? | 21:27 |
| naxxatoe | RST38h: i could also kill you with a chainsaw, but that would be besides the point, i prefer screenshots as i forgot my n900 at home | 21:27 |
| naxxatoe | and i am sitting at work | 21:28 |
| RST38h | Screenshots of WHAT would you like, gentlemen? | 21:28 |
| SpeedEvil | naxxatoe: Are all the drivers of that chainsaw GPL though. | 21:28 |
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| RST38h | I am basically asking REGULAR fbreader users whether they want text selection disabled by default or not | 21:28 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: I want a screenshot of the most important BME sources... | 21:28 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 21:28 |
| kynky | RST38h, thought some1 asked for a screenshot of fbreader earlier | 21:28 |
| naxxatoe | SpeedEvil: i dont get your point ;9 | 21:29 |
| RST38h | kynky: wazd did, and got his screenshot | 21:29 |
| luke-jr | btw, has anyone done a binary diff of N810 BME to N900 BME? | 21:29 |
| luke-jr | how much changed? | 21:29 |
| * RST38h sighs | 21:29 | |
| kynky | guess i will have to install, to see what it looks like | 21:29 |
| PaulFertser | andre__: hey :) do you think there's any chance bug 6360 will get any kind of attention? I'm not really sure it worth it but otoh the facts are strange enough to demand investigation imho. | 21:29 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6360 Headset problems | 21:29 |
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| luke-jr | actually, on second hand, binary diff wasn't trivial :x | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | luke-jr: also the fact that HTC windows mobile and linux phones are almost identical helps | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: think it's a connector issue if anything | 21:30 |
| luke-jr | and N900's ARM upgrade will probably make it vary hugely | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: i have funny behaviour on my pc at times for instance | 21:30 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: if it was connector, then the other headset wouldn't work flawlessly with it i guess. | 21:30 |
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| andre__ | hi PaulFertser, so for the original reporter it's fixed and for that special case it *looks* like a hardware problem. hence no further investigations currently... | 21:31 |
| kynky | the motorola droid is cortex a8 | 21:31 |
| kynky | no idea why i said that | 21:31 |
| luke-jr | lol | 21:31 |
| jebba | courmisch: if someone wants to test bleeding edge/git kernel code with n900, which tree is best to use? master branch of linux-omap? (note, i have built a package a week ago of linux-omap for n900, but it didn't boot, but that may have just been that day's code). | 21:32 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, disabled. | 21:32 |
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| microlith | is there any real gain/loss by going with Dropbear for SSH instead of OpenSSH? | 21:32 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, native scrollbar should be off by default. | 21:32 |
| kynky | i went with openssh | 21:32 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, FBReader progress bar should be ON. | 21:33 |
| PaulFertser | andre__: you talking about hardware/software dichotomy again, oh my. Imagine there's some threshold set badly, that makes 95% of headsets work "ok" and 5% of otherwise good headsets not getting detected. Altering the threshold will solve it for good. Can you imagine it? Why are you so sure it's not the case here? | 21:33 |
| go1dfish | GAN900: agreed | 21:33 |
| ali1234 | jebba: if you want to test bleeding edge code you need a serial console, otherwise you'll just end up at "it doesn't work, oh well" | 21:33 |
| RST38h | GAN: It is on | 21:33 |
| RST38h | GAN: I have not yet disabled the scrollbar, although I have it disabled for myself | 21:33 |
| RST38h | GAN: Should I? | 21:33 |
| andre__ | PaulFertser, you did read "that special case" in my answer here, did you? | 21:34 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, native scrollbar serves no purpose and looks ugly. | 21:34 |
| jebba | ali1234: yes, serial console would be fantastic too. Not sure what pins to use, but there appear to be a number to pick from under the battery. Not sure if that's documented anywhere though. | 21:34 |
| go1dfish | RST38h: I'd prefer native scrollbar disabled | 21:34 |
| andre__ | that answers your last question. I am NOT "so sure". | 21:34 |
| GAN900 | Especially in Fremantle. | 21:34 |
| RST38h | Ok. No to native scrollbar | 21:34 |
| RST38h | How about tap scrolling? | 21:34 |
| sejo | evening all | 21:34 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, I can't get it to respond reliably here. | 21:34 |
| ali1234 | jebba: those test points are documented for n800/n810, they're different but similar enough that it should be possible to figure out. i don't have a link to the docs though | 21:34 |
| courmisch | jebba: never tried, you'd need to adapt the board file, and fix the boot sequence not to fail due to missing drivers | 21:35 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, so my personal pref is off. | 21:35 |
| go1dfish | RST38h: tapping the top/bottom halves to switch pages? | 21:35 |
| RST38h | ok | 21:35 |
| RST38h | goldfish: yes | 21:35 |
| go1dfish | I think I would disagree with GAN900 here, this one isn't as clear cut IMO | 21:35 |
| RST38h | GAN: Try adding 100ms delay between taps | 21:35 |
| PaulFertser | andre__: you can't be sure there's only one case just because there's only one bugreport at bugs.maemo.org. Probably many devices were silently (or after a useless talk with "care") returned/exchanged. I mean the case is/was interesting enough and why do you think it doesn't deserve to be diagnosed? | 21:35 |
| b-man17 | luke-jr: thinking of making a Gentoo port to the N900? xD | 21:35 |
| RST38h | "not clear cut" means "off" to me, as I am making a default config | 21:35 |
| go1dfish | touch tap feels like the most native-ish interface for the device to me, but the rockerbar would be good to | 21:35 |
| GAN900 | Can you bind r to screen rotate? | 21:35 |
| go1dfish | RST38h: cool | 21:36 |
| RST38h | GAN: I can but why? I will give you a rotate icon | 21:36 |
| jebba | courmisch: ./arch/arm/configs/rx51_defconfig there is that which should be a good .config i suppose. And ./arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-rx51.c. Or perhaps i'm not following what you mean by "board file" | 21:36 |
| GAN900 | Ah, nevermind. | 21:36 |
| andre__ | PaulFertser: Please tell me where I said that I don't "think it doesn't deserve to be diagnosed" | 21:36 |
| * GAN900 wonders about having portrait as default. | 21:36 | |
| andre__ | I wrote that there are no further investigations currently. that's all. | 21:36 |
| andre__ | there's no personal opinion at all included. | 21:36 |
| RST38h | GAN: Probably not a good idea | 21:36 |
| PaulFertser | andre__: btw, there's a followup on the ticket where another guy says he experiences the same and asks for a workaround since returning/exchanging the device is not a viable option for him. | 21:36 |
| go1dfish | GAN900: personally I think I'd use portait more... | 21:36 |
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| GAN900 | I like defaults that encourage new users to use applications "correctly". *g* | 21:36 |
| andre__ | yes. | 21:37 |
| * RST38h also uses portrait | 21:37 | |
| go1dfish | but given how little other apps use portrait so far, I'd still default to landscape | 21:37 |
| GAN900 | I use nothing but portrait. | 21:37 |
| PaulFertser | andre__: sorry, i tend to forget about difference between personal and corporate opinions. | 21:37 |
| go1dfish | I've always used fb reader portrait to | 21:37 |
| RST38h | So, ok: landscape, no tap scrolling by default, scrollbar disabled, text selection disabled | 21:37 |
| ali1234 | jebba: board files are in arch/arm/mach-*/board-*.c | 21:37 |
| courmisch | jebba: hmm, kay, but I am not sure the phone will like to be booted without a modem | 21:37 |
| RST38h | Everyone comfortable with these as DEFAULTS? | 21:37 |
| go1dfish | is the rocker enabled for paging by default? | 21:37 |
| RST38h | Ah, and the fbreader progress bar enabled | 21:38 |
| RST38h | yes | 21:38 |
| go1dfish | last I tried on the n900 it wasn't | 21:38 |
| go1dfish | cool | 21:38 |
| RST38h | Well, I made some changes :) | 21:38 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: and green on black like in the good ole days? | 21:38 |
| go1dfish | then yeah, those sound great | 21:38 |
| RST38h | Paul: No | 21:38 |
| lcuk | RST38h, general had a problem with that earlier afaik | 21:38 |
| RST38h | Black on light-wheat, like it should be | 21:38 |
| go1dfish | heh | 21:38 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Well, seems to work for me | 21:38 |
| lcuk | black on white | 21:38 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, yes. | 21:38 |
| lcuk | is the only true way | 21:38 |
| GAN900 | Ooh | 21:38 |
| RST38h | lcuk: People have got problems with black on white | 21:38 |
| ali1234 | jebba: look for a tree that has arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-rx51.c in it, that will be a good place to start | 21:38 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, good one. | 21:39 |
| RST38h | lcuk: It is hard on the eyes | 21:39 |
| go1dfish | white can get very bright on the device | 21:39 |
| lcuk | backlight | 21:39 |
| RST38h | lcuk: the light-wheat is ALMOST like white | 21:39 |
| ali1234 | jebba: although anything with the defconfig should have the board too | 21:39 |
| GAN900 | white on black should be default. | 21:39 |
| RST38h | Just a little bit off | 21:39 |
| lcuk | almost != | 21:39 |
| go1dfish | partiucularly in low light, I haven't tried the light-wheat backdrop, but that sounds reasonable | 21:39 |
| jebba | ali1234: ya, the linux-omap tree has that, that's what i meant. And it has that ./arch/arm/configs/rx51_defconfig too. That's what i used last time, fwiw | 21:39 |
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| lcuk | remove all color and if required make text grey | 21:39 |
| PaulFertser | Can anyone pass me a link/hint where to find why it's preferred to have a light background? Traditional terminals were white or green on black. And i've personally tried green on black on FBReader and it worked ok for me. | 21:39 |
| PaulFertser | Please. | 21:40 |
| lcuk | PaulFertser, real books are white | 21:40 |
| RST38h | lcuk,gan,goldfish: All right, next version will hopefully get a new set of icons from wazd and these additional defaults | 21:40 |
| lcuk | thats where it comes from | 21:40 |
| ali1234 | jebba: stuff gets added in stages so the presence of those files doesn't guarantee 100% working kernel | 21:40 |
| lcuk | and for something like the kindle works better | 21:40 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: most humans read paper books | 21:40 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, thank god. | 21:40 |
| PaulFertser | lcuk: real books do not emit light, that's a real difference. | 21:40 |
| GAN900 | The new FBReader icons are unusable. | 21:40 |
| ali1234 | jebba: this is why you need serial console - that is usually the very first thing to get implemented | 21:40 |
| lcuk | hence me mentioning the kindle for this very reason | 21:40 |
| go1dfish | PaulFertser: exactly :) | 21:40 |
| RST38h | GAN: Now, you go and talk to Geometer to integrate the change sinto his codebase :) | 21:40 |
| go1dfish | white on dark is much better for light emiting displays | 21:40 |
| go1dfish | and vice versa for reflective | 21:41 |
| PaulFertser | go1dfish: so probably what's good for real books might be bad for terminals? | 21:41 |
| RST38h | GAN: I already switched to the older iconset, so even the current version will be ok | 21:41 |
| LinuxCode | real men have a real book and a torch | 21:41 |
| RST38h | GAN: But of course a specially designed maemo set will look better | 21:41 |
| go1dfish | PaulFertser: one of the first things I did on my n900 was correct the terminal colors | 21:41 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, nearly got my head taken off last time I tried to discuss icons. | 21:41 |
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| lcuk | LinuxCode, sore subject atm | 21:41 |
| LinuxCode | lcuk, hehe | 21:41 |
| * lcuk reads by liqtorch | 21:41 | |
| LinuxCode | haha | 21:41 |
| lcuk | on n810 | 21:41 |
| LinuxCode | interesting concept... | 21:42 |
| PaulFertser | go1dfish: i've tried reading books on my freerunner and to me green on black looked nice and comfortable, does this make me a pervert? | 21:42 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: fwiw, i have portrait available in the browser | 21:42 |
| RST38h | Pauk: yes it does. | 21:42 |
| timeless_mbp | i only use it for a very small portion of my browsing | 21:42 |
| RST38h | And an old fart pervert, for that =) | 21:42 |
| timeless_mbp | (when i'm reading newspapers) | 21:42 |
| go1dfish | PaulFertser: I used white/gray/green on black on some of my older devices | 21:42 |
| PaulFertser | andre__: do you by any chance know the faith of the device in question? | 21:42 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: i'm not old ;) | 21:42 |
| timeless_mbp | i would never want portrait for sms chat | 21:42 |
| RST38h | See? A pervert! | 21:42 |
| ali1234 | PaulFertser: dunno if it makes much difference, but theoretically a mostly black screen uses more power than a mostly white screen | 21:42 |
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| go1dfish | before transflexive screens, the way the zaurus displays were lit, at least the early ones, black on white felt better | 21:42 |
| timeless_mbp | i sometimes use portrait for dialing | 21:42 |
| RST38h | But anyways, N900 is not a terminal, so green-on-black does not apply here | 21:42 |
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| PaulFertser | RST38h: i programmed your response ;) | 21:43 |
| RST38h | Outside of osso-xterm that is | 21:43 |
| lcuk | timeless, i can see it if there were a decent OSK | 21:43 |
| timeless_mbp | but i generally switch to landscape if i'm sitting down | 21:43 |
| andre__ | PaulFertser, hmm? what do you mean by "faith" here? :) | 21:43 |
| go1dfish | but with the SL6000 and C3100 (and IMO the IT's) I think light on dark would be better | 21:43 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: some pipe dreams are too expensive | 21:43 |
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| go1dfish | it depends on the display | 21:43 |
| PaulFertser | andre__: what happened to the device and the headset? Was the root of the problem found? Etc. | 21:43 |
| * lcuk nods | 21:43 | |
| timeless_mbp | roughly you're talking t9 or the other one | 21:43 |
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| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: abusing a triager is abuse | 21:43 |
| RST38h | fuck. | 21:43 |
| timeless_mbp | give it a rest | 21:43 |
| RST38h | autobuilder. | 21:43 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, this is FBReader. | 21:43 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__ deals in software | 21:43 |
| andre__ | PaulFertser, no idea, sorry | 21:43 |
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| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: it? | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | stop abusing him. | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | if someone has a problem, they need their own bug w/ useful logs, etc | 21:44 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, ssshh!, don't tell them about my real job! ;-) | 21:44 |
| * RST38h decided to try autobuilder submission himself | 21:44 | |
| RST38h | rejected of course | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | but if it's a hardware bug, they probably need to contact Cae | 21:44 |
| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: i hope i didn't. And if i did i'd prefer he told me about that himself. | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | s/ae/are/ | 21:44 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: but if it's a hardware bug, they probably need to contact Care | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: this is a community | 21:45 |
| timeless_mbp | it's our job to protect our members | 21:45 |
| andre__ | I think it's all fine. :) | 21:45 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't want you abused just as i don't want to be abused. | 21:45 |
| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: did you read my comment about a possibly wrong threshold? Are you still sure there's a clear borderline between software and hardware? | 21:45 |
| RST38h | gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found | 21:45 |
| RST38h | That is from the autobuilder | 21:46 |
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| RST38h | How do I make this crap work? | 21:46 |
| * andre__ passes a hammer to RST38h | 21:46 | |
| RST38h | No no | 21:46 |
| PaulFertser | andre__: timeless_mbp: anyway, have a nice weekend (end) and thanks for your patience. | 21:47 |
| RST38h | I want to somehow avoid dealing with autobuilder | 21:47 |
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| andre__ | PaulFertser, np. you too :) | 21:47 |
| ShadowJK | what's this headphone issue? | 21:47 |
| PaulFertser | ShadowJK: bug 6360 | 21:47 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6360 Headset problems | 21:47 |
| RST38h | Head does not fit into the phone? | 21:47 |
| ShadowJK | oh, headset not headphone? | 21:47 |
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| PaulFertser | ShadowJK: well, stereo headset is a special case of headphones after all. | 21:48 |
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| PaulFertser | ShadowJK: i think you might want to read the ticket in question to see for yourself if it worth investigating or not. Apparently nokia decided it doesn't. | 21:48 |
| ShadowJK | headset includes the nonstandard extension and you have to start finding out whether user is using some random headset or a compatible one | 21:49 |
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| PaulFertser | ShadowJK: i did | 21:49 |
| PaulFertser | ShadowJK: it's all in the ticket | 21:49 |
| PaulFertser | ShadowJK: he had problems with n900 headset. | 21:49 |
| PaulFertser | Original | 21:49 |
| antezz | my headset suddly broke after second use | 21:49 |
| PaulFertser | BTW, n900 kernel does support some weird proprietary nokia protocol (i assume it's used for additional control buttons) but i've no idea if it works or implemented on higher levels. Funny thing, it seems nobody here knows. | 21:50 |
| RST38h | HATE HATE HATE | 21:50 |
| RST38h | Hate autobuilder | 21:51 |
| * RST38h will not open source anything just to avoid dealing with the autobuilder <cackle> | 21:51 | |
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| * PaulFertser quit hating after realised it doesn't harm his enemies, only himself. | 21:51 | |
| RST38h | ah whaddayaknow.. | 21:51 |
| ShadowJK | PaulFertser, I'm not sure it's sending anything. With my adapter which has the extra controls, when connected to E75, I hear blips and clicks when I press the buttons. On N810 I hear the same blips and clicks (but N810 does nothing about it), on N900 I don't hear them | 21:52 |
| PaulFertser | ShadowJK: you might be interested in the sysfs nodes contents mentioned in the ticket. | 21:52 |
| PaulFertser | ShadowJK: but the kernel has some non-trivial detection code for that stuff for sure. | 21:53 |
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| RST38h | ok, where in autobuilder do i stick gpg public key??? | 22:00 |
| microlith | ok | 22:01 |
| microlith | back where I started (almost) with 63MB free on / | 22:01 |
| ifreq | is it possible to but videos / animated gifs/flash on the backhround? | 22:02 |
| ifreq | -h | 22:02 |
| sp3000 | RST38h: google does score you a workaround | 22:02 |
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| RST38h | url? | 22:02 |
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| sp3000 | in the form of "If the problem is causing builds for you to fail when uploading to the autobuilder a workaround is to add the -uc and -us switches when building your source" | 22:02 |
| Arkenoi | rst38h: could you please recompile maemopad+ for me? i have not install sdk yet | 22:03 |
| RST38h | hmmm | 22:03 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: sorry, first things first | 22:03 |
| * RST38h is kinda low on free time | 22:03 | |
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| lardman | The X-Factor is truely shite | 22:04 |
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| lardman | sorry, random outburst there | 22:04 |
| * RST38h googles | 22:05 | |
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| RST38h | Oh. A reality show. Screw it. | 22:05 |
| lardman | exactly | 22:05 |
| lardman | my wife is watching and wondering why I'm off to sit on the computer :D | 22:05 |
| RST38h | But at least brits look like human beings | 22:06 |
| sp3000 | RST38h: apparently the other options is to get re-invited, but that's a thread from april | 22:06 |
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| lardman | ah I forgot it's also on in the US | 22:06 |
| RST38h | lardman <--- got the reference point perfectly | 22:07 |
| lardman | lol | 22:07 |
| sp3000 | and then the december thread says "We don't make use of the GPG key" so go figure | 22:07 |
| RST38h | sp3000: Well, rebuilt with -uc -us, uploaded with dput, keeping fingers crossed | 22:08 |
| * RST38h expected something of this kind to happen | 22:08 | |
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| naxxatoe | Anyone good at ui building that is bored and wants to build some cool stuff for maemo 5 (got project ideas but my ui skills suck) | 22:09 |
| * lardman googles for ui | 22:10 | |
| lardman | ah, strange thing that users use ;) | 22:11 |
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| lardman | naxxatoe: Tried TMO? | 22:11 |
| * javispedro 's been trying to get HildonAnimationActor working for a few hours now and all I have is a yellow 100x100 square at x=20, y=20. | 22:11 | |
| lardman | there was a chap on there offering ui design iirc | 22:11 |
| sp3000 | RST38h: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#Preparing_a_source_package doesn't specify those ...I think dpkg-buildpackage only warns if it can't sign so I guess nobody expected someone to actually sign things :P | 22:11 |
| naxxatoe | lardman: yup, and i will keep trying | 22:11 |
| lardman | or do you want the building rather than designing? | 22:11 |
| naxxatoe | design, pen on paper is no problem, the rest is just really bad | 22:12 |
| lardman | what kind of ideas? | 22:12 |
| lardman | Python is pretty easy to get going with | 22:12 |
| naxxatoe | background magic on my side is also strong, but just the graphic is like really bad -.- | 22:12 |
| naxxatoe | yeah i know | 22:12 |
| * RST38h signs things since chinook | 22:12 | |
| naxxatoe | i can write python, but i just cant cope with graphics | 22:12 |
| lardman | ah ok | 22:12 |
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| lardman | likewise I can't do UIs | 22:13 |
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| thresh | hi folks. is there any document on tuning compiler options and stuff like that for applications to be built for maemo5? | 22:14 |
| naxxatoe | t | 22:14 |
| naxxatoe | thresh: no idea, what kind of software are you talking about? | 22:14 |
| ManuelSE | google gcc flags fremantle | 22:15 |
| thresh | uhm, codec libraries mostly, vlc | 22:15 |
| naxxatoe | nice | 22:15 |
| naxxatoe | vlc is c code right? | 22:15 |
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| thresh | mostly, yes | 22:15 |
| thresh | some c++ too | 22:15 |
| RST38h | is there some url for the autobuilder current status? | 22:16 |
| naxxatoe | did you adapt the ui to go with the main maemo user interface? | 22:16 |
| thresh | no, there is no ui yet | 22:16 |
| thresh | yet == as if someone writes it... | 22:16 |
| naxxatoe | so its command line only? | 22:16 |
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| javispedro | so why, why it is not doing texturefrompixmap on my actor | 22:17 |
| RST38h | does not like you? | 22:17 |
| thresh | well i think you can try launching the usual qt4 gui, but it wouldnt be any good on n900 screen | 22:17 |
| RST38h | needs a human sacrifice? | 22:17 |
| RST38h | the moon is in the wrong phase? | 22:17 |
| lardman | RST38h: s/human/goat | 22:17 |
| lardman | at least first of all | 22:17 |
| javispedro | maybe it doesn't like xshm, but that can't be since it's doing the same as it does for normal windows | 22:18 |
| javispedro | ah.. | 22:18 |
| javispedro | calling it a day | 22:18 |
| RST38h | well he may start with a hamster or a labrat, but there is always a possibility that the Tentacled One will get disappointed... | 22:18 |
| lardman | true | 22:18 |
| lardman | and smite him for not being generous enough with the first sacrifice? | 22:18 |
| javispedro | my sbox is good | 22:18 |
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| RST38h | why smite? just suck his brains out, for dinner. | 22:19 |
| javispedro | I've patched nearly every process in the compositing pipeline to add some mark, like lines, crosses or just red rectangles :) | 22:19 |
| * lardman always wondered about a link between smite and smitten | 22:19 | |
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| wazd | I'm sorry, I've missed, who was talking to me recently? :) | 22:19 |
| wazd | hate that miranda limit | 22:19 |
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| ManuelSE | javispedro what do you mean? why do that? | 22:20 |
| ManuelSE | mist | 22:20 |
| RST38h | So, how do I check the autobuilder status??? | 22:20 |
| lardman | go to the output dir? | 22:21 |
| RST38h | url? | 22:21 |
| lardman | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/ | 22:21 |
| * RST38h has not received any acknowledgement that the package was accepted | 22:21 | |
| lardman | and then chose your package | 22:21 |
| RST38h | thanks | 22:21 |
| lardman | don't thank me yet ;) | 22:21 |
| lardman | did you upload it then? Any major problems? | 22:21 |
| RST38h | Now I see why I did not want to do it? | 22:21 |
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| lardman | lol | 22:22 |
| RST38h | well, it did not accept my signed uploads, | 22:22 |
| RST38h | but -uc -us seems to have fixed it | 22:22 |
| lardman | RST38h: you have to operate in "fire and forget" mode with the autobuilder | 22:22 |
| lardman | you don't need to sign | 22:22 |
| lardman | just -sa -S | 22:22 |
| RST38h | lardman: so I do: I upload to non-free and forget about autobuilder | 22:23 |
| lardman | ah well | 22:23 |
| RST38h | decided to be a good open sourced community member for one night, and guess what I get? | 22:23 |
| RST38h | Right. PAIN. | 22:23 |
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| lardman | lol | 22:23 |
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| naxxatoe | RST38h: welcome to life | 22:24 |
| RST38h | yea, hello there | 22:24 |
| derf | RST38h: Yes, the autobuilder is nothing but pain. | 22:25 |
| RST38h | Ok, it's doing Something: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/fbreader_0.10.7-4/ | 22:25 |
| derf | I had ignored it until last week. | 22:25 |
| derf | And I still wish I had. | 22:25 |
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| derf | Expect at least half an hour per arch. | 22:25 |
| RST38h | def: Well, I can upload stuff in binary to non-free but then someone still has to push it through autobuilder | 22:25 |
| naxxatoe | god, i wish somebody would help me on that ui shit with my projects | 22:25 |
| derf | And then expect several more hours before it bothers to sync it into extras-devel. | 22:26 |
| lardman | yeah, is pretty slow, which makes building multi-package apps hard | 22:26 |
| naxxatoe | just looking up how to get started in qt makes me sick | 22:26 |
| derf | Except for right now, when syncing is completely broken. | 22:26 |
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| lardman | needs some sort of queue system otherwise it takes >1 day to upload everything | 22:26 |
| * RST38h sighs | 22:26 | |
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| lardman | multi-package dep that is | 22:26 |
| RST38h | Just allow binary uploads like before and forget about it =( | 22:26 |
| lardman | well no, source is pretty useful actually | 22:27 |
| RST38h | Yes, you do not get the source in the repo, but so what | 22:27 |
| RST38h | You can still upload the source, as an option | 22:27 |
| lardman | source + it actually building is good | 22:27 |
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| lardman | not fair for you RST38h as it's not your app, but for people writing their own code, it really ought to build | 22:27 |
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| hrw | morgen | 22:27 |
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| naxxatoe | hrw: hoi | 22:28 |
| lardman | hrw: gleichfall | 22:28 |
| hrw | new bugs to vote for: 6931 and 6932 | 22:28 |
| lardman | bug 6931 | 22:28 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6931 After installation of software last icon in "More..." view has default icon instead of own one | 22:28 |
| naxxatoe | what kind of bugs? | 22:28 |
| hrw | bug 6932 | 22:28 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6932 "More..." view is not sorted at all | 22:28 |
| florian | hi hrw | 22:29 |
| hrw | will report few more in next minutes | 22:29 |
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| range | hrw: To me it looks like it is sorted. Last installed or updated application is at the end ... | 22:29 |
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| hrw | range: I do not remember when installed Mirror or Mauku or other ones | 22:29 |
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| hrw | range: I expect them to be SORTED | 22:29 |
| hrw | in user compatible way | 22:30 |
| range | hrw: We need a memory trainer application then :) | 22:30 |
| hrw | I want folders, tags or any other way to organize it | 22:30 |
| range | hrw: Just saying it is sorted, but not like you'd wanted to (me neither) | 22:30 |
| hrw | I want priorities, I want to be able to add apps to first screen | 22:30 |
| hrw | I want to get rid of crap called 'Ovi store' and have 'Mauku' there | 22:30 |
| hrw | etc etc etc etc etc etc | 22:30 |
| hrw | etc etc etc etc etc etc etc | 22:30 |
| hrw | and I need to report them before andre__ will move them to brainstorm ;D | 22:31 |
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| andre__ | hrw, I'm getting a bit tired of getting bashed by you, but if it makes you happy ;-) | 22:32 |
| RST38h | lardman: I have no problem making the source available (as it is not my app) :) | 22:32 |
| RST38h | dealing with this contraption they set up is a bit of a problem though | 22:32 |
| * sejo digs osm2GO | 22:32 | |
| Myrtti | hrw: mauku makes kittens cry | 22:32 |
| arachnist | what's wrong with mauku? | 22:33 |
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| range | Myrtti: Yeah, but so does witter. | 22:33 |
| RST38h | are these the scream of pain or pleasure though? | 22:33 |
| Myrtti | range: from what I've heard, less so | 22:33 |
| RST38h | wazd: BTW, if you were looking for ugly apps, Mauku and Witter | 22:33 |
| RST38h | wazd: Except I am not sure you would want to beautify a TWITTER client | 22:33 |
| go1dfish | hrw: I think the stance on apps being unorganized is.... | 22:33 |
| range | Myrtti: From what I showed my cats ... | 22:33 |
| go1dfish | use the desktop shortcuts | 22:33 |
| go1dfish | avoid the app list | 22:34 |
| Myrtti | nothing beats dabr.co.uk. | 22:34 |
| Myrtti | srsly | 22:34 |
| range | go1dfish: Then give me more desktops :) | 22:34 |
| go1dfish | lame, but nobody seems interested in fixing it | 22:34 |
| go1dfish | range: hehe | 22:34 |
| hrw | andre__: sorry, will end | 22:34 |
| ManuelSE | does flashblock work in browser | 22:35 |
| hrw | Myrtti: it was example | 22:35 |
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| andre__ | hrw: thanks. sorry, my sense of humor somehow has been already better than in the current times, also a bit my fault... :-) | 22:35 |
| hrw | bug 6933 | 22:36 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6933 Alarm times are shown wrong | 22:36 |
| luke-jr | b-man17: if someone wants to send me one | 22:37 |
| hrw | https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1754 - whoo will tell me how much time before event the alarm is set? (sshot says "3h before") | 22:37 |
| * Arkenoi blogs with web browser, cannot imagine why one might want a blogging application | 22:38 | |
| hrw | Arkenoi: agreed | 22:38 |
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| thresh | Arkenoi: internets are slow | 22:41 |
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| thresh | here in faraway lands | 22:42 |
| RST38h | they are ok here | 22:42 |
| Arkenoi | thresh, save a web page then | 22:42 |
| wazd | RST38h: you'd be surprised but I already did it partialy :) | 22:42 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://i026.radikal.ru/0912/36/089658a648d5.png | 22:43 |
| RST38h | wow | 22:43 |
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| RST38h | well, looks better than the current version (judging from screenshots) | 22:44 |
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| wazd | RST38h: but joshua.maverick is working on some custom UI so I don't wat to disturb | 22:44 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://mav-media.com/jrichards/maemo/witter/witter004.jpg | 22:45 |
| luke-jr | `(°∞°)' | 22:45 |
| Ceron^ | http://store.ovi.com/content/730162B73408D19EE040050A853249BD?CID=ovistore-fw-otc-na-acq-na-twitter-g0-na-1 <- i want this for n900 :\ | 22:45 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 22:46 | |
| Ceron^ | :D | 22:46 |
| timeless_mbp | it'd be really nice if my n900 would recognize when a network disappeared | 22:46 |
| Ceron^ | how so? | 22:46 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: agreed | 22:46 |
| w00t | it's annoying | 22:46 |
| timeless_mbp | well, it doesn't seem to notice when i walk away from a network | 22:46 |
| timeless_mbp | but i'm using a non sales software rev | 22:47 |
| Ceron^ | a wifi place? | 22:47 |
| timeless_mbp | if you guys have this problem, you should file a bug | 22:47 |
| w00t | my other annoyance there is that IM doesn't always reconnect when it does finally go away | 22:47 |
| w00t | MSN in particular has issues with that | 22:47 |
| timeless_mbp | Ceron^: e.g. my apt has a network named 'Home' | 22:47 |
| Ceron^ | my works fine :P | 22:47 |
| timeless_mbp | and i walk outside, my n900 is still trying to use 'Home' | 22:47 |
| * range hates custom UIs. Always reminds me of windows. | 22:47 | |
| w00t | yeah, I plan to file a bug, I just need to get the time to reproduce it properly | 22:47 |
| Ceron^ | it changed to 3g | 22:47 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll switch it to cellular | 22:47 |
| Ceron^ | when walking away from home | 22:47 |
| w00t | (I probably will watch it tomorrow) | 22:47 |
| timeless_mbp | (manually) | 22:47 |
| Ceron^ | it switches back when im at home | 22:47 |
| Ceron^ | automtically | 22:47 |
| timeless_mbp | i then walk around, and it picks up a network 'Center' | 22:47 |
| w00t | Ceron^: it does, it just doesn't *always*, for me.. and sometimes it takes a rather long time | 22:47 |
| timeless_mbp | when i walk home, it's still using 'Center' | 22:48 |
| wazd | RST38h: and what's wrong with Mauku?) | 22:48 |
| Ceron^ | for me it works fine | 22:48 |
| Ceron^ | at work and at home | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | even though 'Center' isn't available, and it should switch to 'Home' | 22:48 |
| Ceron^ | 2 wlan spots (home+work) and 3g | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: how many bugs in Mauku do you want? | 22:48 |
| Ceron^ | it just takes some time to change | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | i have about 5 | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | Ceron^: i gave it an entire meal | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | surely that's suffcient? | 22:48 |
| RST38h | wazd: no idea, have not used it =) | 22:48 |
| Ceron^ | yeh | 22:48 |
| Ceron^ | my takes about 2-3 min | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | s/suffcient/sufficient/ | 22:48 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: surely that's sufficient? | 22:48 |
| w00t | e.g. I work in a 3 story building, at the top floor, we have a wifi network there on the top floor.. signal doesn't extend down at all.. and n900 takes until I get all the way to the street and 1-1.5 minutes walking past that before it realises that the network is gone | 22:49 |
| RST38h | wazd: But Myrtti has and she isn't happy about it | 22:49 |
| w00t | often | 22:49 |
| wazd | RST38h: mmm | 22:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | wazd: seriously, i've got a bug list if you have a receptacle | 22:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | and i *don't* use it | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | this was just the basics | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | the control panel item is system modal | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | (it goes downhill from there) | 22:49 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: what exactly do you do at Nokia anyhow? | 22:50 |
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| wazd | timeless_mbp: UI only :) | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: i work on the browser :) | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: yeah, i only have ui bugs | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | i haven't used the thing :) | 22:50 |
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| wazd | timeless_mbp: oh, I thought mauku is kinda well designed since it's Fremantle Star and stuff | 22:51 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: want pictures? | 22:51 |
| go1dfish | timeless_mbp: oh rly | 22:51 |
| go1dfish | just the ui? or engine stuff as well | 22:51 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: sure) | 22:51 |
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| sejo | timeless_mbp: what do you use as twitter client on the n900 | 22:52 |
| timeless_mbp | sejo: um, what's twitter? | 22:52 |
| go1dfish | microB has a behavior with regards to wide elements in overflowable areas that I'd like to be able to disable | 22:52 |
| timeless_mbp | and does it work in a web browser? | 22:52 |
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| go1dfish | it seems to set the scrollArea of the document to the widest element in the page, even if the widest element in the page is contained in a fixed width overflow:scroll container | 22:52 |
| sejo | timeless_mbp: or status,net client? | 22:52 |
| sejo | timeless_mbp: if you use mauku... | 22:53 |
| timeless_mbp | sejo: did i say i used mauku? | 22:53 |
| sejo | s/use/used/ | 22:53 |
| infobot | sejo meant: timeless_mbp: if you used mauku... | 22:53 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm pretty sure i said i didn't use it | 22:53 |
| timeless_mbp | someone installed it on my n900 | 22:53 |
| sejo | timeless_mbp: a whole meal? | 22:53 |
| sejo | ach | 22:53 |
| timeless_mbp | so i have the ui bugs | 22:53 |
| sejo | ach k | 22:54 |
| timeless_mbp | omigosh | 22:54 |
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| hrw | who knows how fast DDP replaces faulty devices? | 22:56 |
| hrw | my n900 has a group of bad pixels ;( | 22:57 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://s50.radikal.ru/i128/0912/ce/4f250b0ae0f1.png <- test | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/mauku/ | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | short list of bugs: | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | 1. system modal | 22:59 |
| RST38h | wazd: the leftmost icon should contain an arrow | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | 2. access keys on new/edit/etc | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | 3. clicking advanced/simple causes the button width to change | 23:00 |
| RST38h | wazd: the rotate thing is unclear to me from the image | 23:00 |
| luke-jr | hrw: bad how? | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | 4. there are 'cancel' buttons (and in the middle of a list!) | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | 5. many fields aren't fremantle tall | 23:00 |
| RST38h | wazd: and I suspect that the gray inside the magnifying glass can be removed with 0 damage to the icon =) | 23:00 |
| wazd | RST38h: nono, that's just for visual test | 23:00 |
| RST38h | oh | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | 6. some dialogs have no titles | 23:00 |
| wazd | RST38h: how will it look with solid icons | 23:01 |
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| RST38h | wazd: to me, it looks nice | 23:01 |
| timeless_mbp | 7. editing often results in a dialog instead of inline in the panel | 23:01 |
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| timeless_mbp | 8. the password field is handled totally wrong (so not maemo) | 23:02 |
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| wazd | timeless_mbp: can I run it under SDK? | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: i wouldn't know | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | i didn't install it | 23:03 |
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| wazd | timeless_mbp: where did you get screenshots?) | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | from my device? | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | what i mean by "i didn't install it" | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | is that "i installed a meta package" and "mauku was an ancillary added PoC" | 23:04 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: ok, nm :D | 23:05 |
| hrw | luke-jr: white pixels on black background | 23:05 |
| luke-jr | hrw: stuck pixels are oft fixable | 23:06 |
| luke-jr | hrw: make a video of white/black flashing and play it back fullscreen as fast as possible | 23:06 |
| pupnik | is oft an english word? | 23:06 |
| timeless_mbp | oft quoted? | 23:06 |
| pupnik | yes wow | 23:06 |
| luke-jr | I think so? | 23:06 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.google.com/dictionary?aq=f&langpair=en|en&hl=en&q=oft | 23:06 |
| timeless_mbp | it is | 23:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | it isn't what i'd call a common word | 23:07 |
| hrw | luke-jr: anyway contacted ddp | 23:07 |
| * hrw -> sleep | 23:07 | |
| hrw | bye | 23:07 |
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| wazd | http://www.jscreenfix.com/video.php | 23:15 |
| wazd | too late | 23:15 |
| sejo | 2/104 | 23:15 |
| wazd | RST38h: @P_Hud dont know such model. Know N950 mid next year without keyboard... i never mention 3-4 devices on maemo this year :) | 23:18 |
| wazd | RST38h: Murtazin says | 23:18 |
| wazd | RST38h: can you remember what he was saying to us at mobilecamp? ;) | 23:19 |
| woglinde | moooooooooooo | 23:19 |
| wazd | woglinde: heya | 23:20 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: any objections to my complaints? :) | 23:20 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: well, I need to see it for myself first :) | 23:21 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, this is 2.0b4 | 23:21 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: you don't trust my install? | 23:21 |
| timeless_mbp | the pictures are genuine ;) | 23:21 |
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| wazd | timeless_mbp: I need to understand what does what :) | 23:22 |
| woglinde | hm time to put qtnx into fremantle extras-testing | 23:22 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, in case people are curious, the English text sucks too :) | 23:22 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh | 23:22 |
| timeless_mbp | i forgot my favorite dialog | 23:22 |
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| wazd | timeless_mbp: looks not good for sure | 23:22 |
| RST38h | wazd: he was saying "16 devices", also said it later on twitter | 23:23 |
| RST38h | wazd: The guy is boolshitting like breathing | 23:23 |
| wazd | RST38h: he's just a pathetic liar :) | 23:23 |
| thresh | why would someone actually believe in what Muldar says | 23:23 |
| RST38h | wazd: Ok, I reused a few Hildon bw icons | 23:23 |
| RST38h | wazd: Gonna see what it look like | 23:23 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: can you shoot with original theme please? Your currrent is kinda disturbing a bit | 23:24 |
| go1dfish | wazd: who? | 23:24 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: which theme do you want? | 23:24 |
| timeless_mbp | digital nature or nseries? | 23:24 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: dunno, standard? :D | 23:25 |
| timeless_mbp | there are two themes, 'orange' and 'blue' | 23:25 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: dlueish will be fine | 23:25 |
| wazd | blueish* | 23:25 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: thanks | 23:25 |
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| admiral0 | hi | 23:25 |
| wazd | go1dfish: Russian infamous blogger/shittalker - Eldar Murtazin | 23:25 |
| RST38h | n810 theme for n900 anyone? | 23:25 |
| timeless_mbp | selecting theme ... nseries | 23:25 |
| wazd | RST38h: hehe | 23:26 |
| wazd | RST38h: I was thinking to remake Titan someday :) | 23:26 |
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| AakashPatel | Yo | 23:27 |
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| admiral0 | has anybody tried to repartition the n900? | 23:27 |
| ShadowJK | in what way? | 23:27 |
| Sir_Lancelot | I have here a HTC HD2 (aka Leo) and a N900...one of them I have to sell...which one should I give away? | 23:28 |
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| admiral0 | using aufs2 | 23:28 |
| ShadowJK | The one you use least | 23:28 |
| admiral0 | i just hate the /opt way | 23:28 |
| microlith | admiral0: I don't think the /opt solution can be avoided (for the time being) | 23:28 |
| woglinde | Sir_Lancelot depends | 23:28 |
| admiral0 | yes it can ;) | 23:28 |
| Sir_Lancelot | on what? | 23:29 |
| Sir_Lancelot | I love them both | 23:29 |
| admiral0 | it is called multi layered file syste | 23:29 |
| admiral0 | m | 23:29 |
| woglinde | Sir_Lancelot lol than dice | 23:29 |
| Sir_Lancelot | and both have their up and downs | 23:29 |
| microlith | admiral0: well you can't put /usr on the eMMC | 23:29 |
| Sir_Lancelot | what kind of support can I expect for N900 | 23:29 |
| Sir_Lancelot | it's kinda limited in what concerns apps for it | 23:29 |
| AakashPatel | HD2 <-winmo? | 23:29 |
| RST38h | Sir_Lancelot: you should sell both and buy an iPhone | 23:29 |
| microlith | AakashPatel: yes | 23:29 |
| AakashPatel | Oh that snapdragon one | 23:30 |
| admiral0 | why? | 23:30 |
| woglinde | rst *g* | 23:30 |
| RST38h | For the unique end to end user experience | 23:30 |
| lcuk | Sir_Lancelot, is there a possibiliy you can be involved in the htc's improvement? | 23:30 |
| admiral0 | updates get messy i know | 23:30 |
| Sir_Lancelot | nooooo | 23:30 |
| AakashPatel | Is tehre a way to completely reset the phone to factory defualts? | 23:30 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Once he learns to speak mandarin... | 23:30 |
| Sir_Lancelot | lcuk: I'm portuguese! Loollll | 23:30 |
| microlith | admiral0: according to many in here and talk, the emmc is brought online too late | 23:30 |
| microlith | AakashPatel: reflash | 23:30 |
| AakashPatel | That erases the user data also? | 23:31 |
| RST38h | ok, sleep | 23:31 |
| microlith | not if you leave the emmc alone | 23:31 |
| microlith | my /home was intact | 23:31 |
| go1dfish | microlith: I imagine you could work around that with pivot_root | 23:31 |
| AakashPatel | hmm can you reflash teh emmc? | 23:31 |
| Sir_Lancelot | my doubt is: when I go to maemo.org, i see only 80 apps for n900 while for WM there are by hundreds | 23:31 |
| microlith | AakashPatel: yes, you can return it to the previous state | 23:31 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: the stuff in the -23* series is mostly w/ nseries | 23:31 |
| admiral0 | microlith, system can boot without emmc and then remount | 23:31 |
| Sir_Lancelot | what kind of support/development can I expect for the n900? | 23:31 |
| timeless_mbp | note that /sometimes/ it has access keys, and sometimes it doesn't | 23:31 |
| * timeless_mbp doesn't understand the whys | 23:32 | |
| microlith | ... and incidentally, my system is more stable (no crashes since) | 23:32 |
| go1dfish | Sir_Lancelot: my advice.... | 23:32 |
| go1dfish | if you run linux as a desktop and like it | 23:32 |
| go1dfish | keep the n900 | 23:32 |
| lcuk | Sir_Lancelot, should i make an app generating app? | 23:32 |
| go1dfish | if you don't, keep the WinMo | 23:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Sir_Lancelot: n900 has been a platform people can develop apps for for perhaps a month | 23:32 |
| lcuk | something you can type a name into and get a working app out of | 23:32 |
| Sir_Lancelot | i know sh*t about linux... :( | 23:32 |
| microlith | lcuk: you could win the ioccc | 23:32 |
| AakashPatel | Sir_Lancelot: and you bought an n900? o.O lol | 23:32 |
| go1dfish | and wait for maemo6 | 23:32 |
| lcuk | microlith, mmm? | 23:33 |
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| Sir_Lancelot | why should I need how to make apps for Linux to have a n900? | 23:33 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: great, thanks | 23:33 |
| microlith | lcuk: the obfuscaed c contest, they love software that generates software that... | 23:33 |
| go1dfish | Sir_Lancelot: you don't necessarily, but that's where the primary power in the device is right now, is it's Linux roots | 23:34 |
| admiral0 | search recursion on google | 23:34 |
| admiral0 | you'll understandù | 23:34 |
| go1dfish | it will take quite some time till there are as many polished apps as their are for a platform as old as winmo | 23:34 |
| Sir_Lancelot | but there's people developing apps riht now for the devoce? | 23:34 |
| lcuk | heh microlith i enjoy playing with parsers and compilers | 23:34 |
| lcuk | and lvoe building new things | 23:34 |
| lcuk | ;) | 23:34 |
| admiral0 | obvious | 23:34 |
| go1dfish | certainly, but mostly it's linux geeks porting existing apps, and making their own in a few cases | 23:35 |
| lcuk | hell yeah there is | 23:35 |
| go1dfish | there isn't much in the way of commercial development yet | 23:35 |
| go1dfish | due to the lack of any storefront for the device | 23:35 |
| admiral0 | n900 ftw | 23:35 |
| AakashPatel | Oh | 23:35 |
| go1dfish | once ovi works for the n900 I imagine development should pick up | 23:35 |
| AakashPatel | So Do i flash this also | 23:35 |
| AakashPatel | eMMC content 1.2009.41-1 | 23:35 |
| microlith | AakashPatel: you can if you want | 23:35 |
| Sir_Lancelot | any sights on that go1dfish? | 23:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | AakashPatel: keep in mind, that destroys any data you have | 23:36 |
| go1dfish | there may already be commercial apps developing/developed that just haven't been released yet due to the lack of any channel | 23:36 |
| AakashPatel | Yeah | 23:36 |
| lcuk | i once posted in slashdot that im gonna write an app store store | 23:36 |
| microlith | that too | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | so backup, and backup your backup/data .. | 23:36 |
| lcuk | i dont think they believed me | 23:36 |
| go1dfish | Sir_Lancelot: I don't think nokia has said exactly | 23:36 |
| * lcuk shrugs and gets back to code | 23:36 | |
| lcuk | gnite folks | 23:36 |
| lcuk | \o | 23:36 |
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| Eightace | can I ask when the next firmware update is to be released? :) | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | Eightace: some people live in a free country | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | do you? | 23:36 |
| woglinde | nite lcuk | 23:36 |
| AakashPatel | timeless_mbp: i was wanting to completely reset the device :) | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | you can also ask for pie in the sky, but that doesn't mean you'll get it | 23:37 |
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| microlith | duahhgh | 23:37 |
| microlith | oops | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | AakashPatel: for that, then yes, you do want to reflash the emmc | 23:37 |
| AakashPatel | and this also OS 2009 version 1.2009.42-11 right? | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | that's the generally accepted sales version | 23:38 |
| AakashPatel | (thats the OS version on their site | 23:38 |
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| AakashPatel | Hmm | 23:41 |
| AakashPatel | the n900 has the maps pre-loaded? | 23:41 |
| pupnik | openstreetmap is impressive in my area | 23:42 |
| Shapeshifter | Is it possible to disable the boot video + nokia hands and all that and have a text boot? | 23:42 |
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| AakashPatel | Oh it is pre-loaded | 23:43 |
| AakashPatel | thats interesting | 23:43 |
| AakashPatel | oh wait | 23:43 |
| AakashPatel | nvm | 23:43 |
| AakashPatel | stupid internet reconnected | 23:43 |
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| ifreq | would be nice to play maemo vid instead | 23:43 |
| ifreq | ah nv, | 23:43 |
| ifreq | m | 23:43 |
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| jebba | Shapeshifter: to remove the hand thing, edit /etc/hildon-welcome.d/default.conf | 23:44 |
| jebba | you can even just blow out the package with the video if you want | 23:44 |
| AakashPatel | the hand thing is sweet :P | 23:44 |
| admiral0 | microlith, i've got the solution | 23:44 |
| admiral0 | 2 scripts | 23:44 |
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| admiral0 | 1 mounts aufs, the other unmounts it | 23:44 |
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| jebba | Shapeshifter: but that won't give you a text boot, but it will boot up faster without that video | 23:45 |
| Shapeshifter | jebba: thanks | 23:45 |
| admiral0 | ah and third to switch which one is writable | 23:45 |
| AakashPatel | okay yeah maps are preloaded | 23:45 |
| admiral0 | when eMMC is ready you mount it | 23:45 |
| admiral0 | and install only external big debs on it | 23:45 |
| admiral0 | OpenArena etc etc | 23:45 |
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| flux | jebba, how would it need to be modified? the directory name suggsets removing default.conf? | 23:46 |
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| eitreach | Hello. Is the easy-deb-chroot package in extras-testing or extras-devel? | 23:47 |
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| AakashPatel | o.O | 23:47 |
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| jebba | flux: #filename=Hands-v32-h264.avi will do it | 23:47 |
| eitreach | Wow: I hope someone saw my question despite all that. :p | 23:47 |
| flux | jebba, thanks | 23:47 |
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| admiral0 | :O | 23:50 |
| antezz | :o | 23:50 |
| ifreq | is there any timelimit for boot video? | 23:51 |
| ifreq | or can it be as long as you want? | 23:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | you don't want to make an hour long boot video | 23:51 |
| AakashPatel | hah | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | afaiu, the device will wait for your video to finish | 23:51 |
| admiral0 | wanna watch matrix revolutions before boot XD? | 23:52 |
| Proteous | 2 hours would be excesive don't do it | 23:52 |
| sejo | timeless_mbp: would be a cool boot | 23:52 |
| ifreq | ofcourse i do, longer the better "sorry boss cant accept calls.. need to boot phone first" | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 23:52 |
| ifreq | timeless_mbp: but yeh ofcourse not :) | 23:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/maemo-splash-0.1/ | 23:53 |
| timeless_mbp | has my boot package | 23:53 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a bit untested | 23:53 |
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| solarion | window 1 | 23:53 |
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| * sejo aads a slash for solarion | 23:53 | |
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| sejo | s/aads/adds/ | 23:53 |
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| Proteous | It's like a thousand voices cried out then were silenced | 23:54 |
| ifreq | thanks timeless_mbp | 23:54 |
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| sejo | hope mauku will allow to tweet/dent pics soon | 23:58 |
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