IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-11-21

Milo-great, got further...00:00
Milo-ERROR: Scratchbox is not properly set up!00:00
Milo-E: Scratchbox command 'sb-conf setup' returned error 0.00:00
Milo-8D00:00
Milo-ERROR: Not allowed to run this as root!00:01
Milo-ah, no wonder00:01
Milo-but the installer is required to be run as a root00:01
VDVsxwho said that the portrait more ins't in all apps: http://share.ovi.com/album/yerga.Maemo5portraitb00:02
VDVsxhihi00:02
pupnik_anybody got a zeemote ?00:03
woglindebye00:03
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qwerty12_N810VDVsx: Have you had any requests to make BlueMaemo support portrait mode? :p00:03
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, not yet00:04
GeneralAntillesBlueMaemo doesn't support portrait?00:04
GeneralAntillesDeal breaker!00:04
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, but some profiles will have portrait at least00:04
microlithonoes00:04
VDVsx:P00:04
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, BlueMaemo will be the next think tank :P00:05
RST38hBlueMaemo also does not send MMSes00:05
RST38hNot gonna succeed without MMSes, no...00:05
qwerty12_N810RST38h: WTF00:05
RST38hwhat? 8)00:06
GeneralAntillesNOK1A SUX00:06
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: I want a refund, now!00:06
microlithwhat do you mean I can't send low rez images at an inflated price?!00:06
Milo-how am I supposed to run /opt/scratchbox/tools/bin/sb-conf ?00:06
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, sorry you are not eligible for a refund :P00:07
Milo-as root it says it can't be ran as root00:07
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, in fact, if you want to send it back you gotta pay. :P00:07
Milo-and as regular user, it says no permissions, even though it's chmodded properly :D00:07
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: Gah, you Ageist :p00:07
hexafor a new app should I use gtk/hildon or QT ?  dev guide seems to point to hildon/gtk.. but i'm confused with qt being maybe the future on maemo ?00:08
VDVsxhexa, do you know both ?00:09
hexaVDVsx, got more exp with glib but never really touched gtk.. so I guess neither..00:09
hexaVDVsx, but I don't want to recode my gui in a year...00:10
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VDVsxhexa, IMHO Qt isn't ready yet for maemo5, there's some limitations, so you've to choose :D00:10
hexaVDVsx, humm any doc on those limitations somewhere?00:12
Milo-seriously? how is this supposed to be run as regular user?00:12
Milo-Traceback (most recent call last):00:12
Milo-  File "/opt/scratchbox/tools/bin/sb-conf", line 10, in <module>00:12
Milo-    os.execv(chroot,[chroot,p.basename(sys.argv[0])]+sys.argv[1:])00:12
Milo-OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied00:12
VDVsxhexa, probably, 1 sec00:12
Milo-it makes a system call to chroot, which can only be accessed as root00:13
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lbtMilo-: you do know how sbox works?00:13
Milo-yes, creates a chrooted environment00:13
lbtintercepting system calls etc00:13
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Milo-it's a sandbox, sort of00:13
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lbtallowing it to divert calls to binaries of it's own choosing00:13
Milo-lbt but I cannot install it, since it doesn't let me run the command as regular user00:14
Milo-and it can't be ran us root00:14
lbtplaying fakeroot-like games00:14
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lbt*nod*00:14
VDVsxhexa, some here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_Hildon/Qt_Hildon_Widgets00:14
lbtit's a very complex system.... not 'just an application'00:14
hexaVDVsx, great thx :) I'll take a look00:15
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lbtyou need to install it as the devs intended...00:15
VDVsxhexa, there's probably more and some of the stuff there is already outdated since last maemo-Qt release00:15
hexaVDVsx, yeah it's ok I'll search some more myself.. just wanted to get the feeling of the devs here...00:15
VDVsxhexa, but if you have doubts, the people at #qt-maemo can help for sure00:15
hexaVDVsx, thx :)00:15
hexaVDVsx, ho good to know :)00:16
lbthexa: for me.... Qt00:16
lbtbut it isn't quite ready00:16
lbtOTOH if you're learning... it'll be ready by the time your first app is ready for extras00:16
hexalbt, :) that's kinda was I was wondering :) so we're taling like 6 months not 2 years...00:17
Macerdamn. charlzie theron looks horrible in monster00:17
lbtless00:17
Macerthose crazy make up artists can do anything00:17
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hexalbt, k :) even better ,, I don't think I'll make it in less then 4..00:18
lbtmy guess is <3 months before Qt apps will be accepted into extras00:18
Maceris like00:18
Macerthe n900 out yet? :)00:18
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hexalbt, nice :) I'll really consider it then00:19
lbthexa: I'm not even sure that you *can't* put Qt in extras today. Core Qt is on the shipping image00:19
* lbt must push Shopper00:19
Mekwith a beta qt4.6 in extras-devel promoting stuff without also promiting that qt4.6 beta would be hard though... :)00:19
hexalbt, but regardless of the distribution... the point is will I be able to do something comparable to hildon /gtk.. in like 3-6 months with qt..00:20
lbtMek: yes, I'm not up to date... :)00:20
lbthexa: you can do that already00:20
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lbtor do you mean personal learning curve00:20
hexalbt, nah I meant  qt status... nice :)00:21
lbtQt status is pretty much 1st class already00:21
hexaguess I'll go qt then :)00:21
TomaszDlbt looks like we'll meet again00:21
ali1234how does the n900 backup tool work for "application list?" does it just save the list, and then install them again using apt?00:21
lbt:)00:21
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lbtali1234: think so...00:22
lbtTomaszD: I'm not accepted yet00:22
ali1234is it gonna break when my custom repo is not available?00:22
hexalbt, is there still something like a liscence to pay to do qt apps or something or is it all free now btw ? .. /me a bit out of date on it..00:22
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lbtali1234: yes00:22
ali1234i guess i'll find out in a minute...00:22
lbthexa: all LGPL00:22
TomaszDlbt, but anyone can come, you're talking about sponsorship?00:22
tKMFDMali1234, i also makea  repo list00:22
hexalbt, k :)00:22
lbtTomaszD: yes00:22
tKMFDMi thought00:22
tKMFDMor not00:22
ali1234i think i'll just start again anyway00:23
lbtali1234: :)00:23
ali1234does anyone know of a program for winmob which adds bluetooth contact sync without doing it one vcard at a time?00:23
* lbt hasn't flashed yet as I wanted to sync my contacts00:23
TomaszDlbt still got your Mer business card somewhere lol00:23
lbtTomaszD: framed I hope!00:23
ali1234i don't have anything to sync contacts with except my winmob phone which doesn't support contact syncing with anything but outlook, which i dont have00:24
TomaszDof course, and bathed in golden leafs00:24
lbtheh00:24
lbtwe should find a printer to setup to do them for team members00:24
TomaszDanyways, I'll be contacting you once I get there to look for ice cream00:25
lbt<grin> I look forward to it00:25
TomaszDand kebab00:25
TomaszDit's gonna be great. I wonder why Stskeeps isn't coming :P00:26
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GeneralAntillesIndeed00:27
GeneralAntillesStskeeps!00:27
TomaszDhe's asleep00:27
lbtTomaszD: have to ask him ... maybe time?00:27
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lbtright00:27
TomaszDand I should be sleeping too, I've got a rally to attend to tomorrow00:27
* lbt needs sleep00:27
TomaszDgotta wake up at 5 :(00:28
lbtheh g'night all00:28
* lcukn900 really needs sleep00:28
lcukn900gnite lbt00:28
* lbt leaves machine building00:28
TomaszDgnite all00:28
lbtnight lcukn90000:28
qwerty12_N810lcuk: So, instead, you come on IRC? =)00:28
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* lcukn900 is gonna write a scratchbox bible00:30
lcukn900and nail that sucka once and forall00:30
pupnik_mmh should be a nice night to try wlan00:32
javispedroThe Scratchbox bible in one sentence: you prayed the wrong god.00:32
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lcukn900wlan works great. i even found out last night ive got a great dongle with master mode00:33
lcukn900lol javis00:33
* qwerty12_N810 notes to never buy books authored by javispedro... they are anything but value for money00:34
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, did you tried the app ? :D00:34
javispedroqwerty12_N810: not my book! not my book! I'm just reviewing someone else's.00:34
qwerty12_N810OK, OK, I take that back :p00:34
javispedrothanks.00:35
* javispedro writes a book about android fonts and ensures qwerty12_N810 will get a copy. 00:35
derfqwerty12_N810: What are you talking about. The full text of his book was published online for free.00:35
* lcukn900 would buy javiss book "opengl into the vertex"00:35
qwerty12_N810derf: Lemme just go and put on my "Dunce" hat...00:36
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lcukn900id vote for android font book00:37
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, refreshing. . . .00:37
qwerty12_N810javispedro: It must have "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"00:38
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, repository is still trashed.00:38
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javispedroThe lazy dog jumps over the quick brown fox, ok.00:39
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, works here00:39
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, ups, actually doesn't work :p00:40
GeneralAntillesAkamai00:40
qwerty12_N810Someone should upload a "make-the-fucking-repository-work" package and dch -i each time it messes up00:41
javispedrothe fact that's not standard debian would be tomorrow's dealbreaker00:41
SpeedEvilI want slackware on my phone personally.00:43
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javispedroI want Haiku. Which IRC channel do I invade?00:43
javispedroother than this one, of course :)00:43
pupnik_ hm00:44
pupnik_howdo i quit openarena?00:44
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* lcukn900 is pullin up home. bbl o/00:46
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javispedrobye lcuk00:48
javispedroouch.00:48
uhsfhave you seen the nokia n900 ad, i thought it was weird but kinda cool00:50
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uhsfi hate engadget so much, they always have to piss on everything linux and they're just retarded apple sellouts00:56
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: not coming cos of thesis01:08
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, blah blah blah.01:12
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GeneralAntillesRXrenesis8!01:19
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RXrenesis8mwah!01:20
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javispedroDear Nokia, Please also include a pony with the N900, or else I'm not going to buy it.01:38
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uhsfunless they ever make an unlocked gsm n900 it's still just another suck phone01:40
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greenflyuhsf: ? the n900 is gsm and is unlocked01:42
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uhsfanyway it's not available in canada01:42
GeneralAntillesuhsf, er, yeah, what greenfly said.01:42
GeneralAntillesIt's not really available anywhere, yet.01:42
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GeneralAntillesExcept for two flagship stores in the US.01:43
ds3are list prices available for the US (legit, nongraymarket)?01:43
lcukjavispedro, including a piny would make the box a bit bigger and require additional FCC checks and air holes and stuff01:43
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javispedrodealbreaker!01:43
greenflylcuk: too bad, if Nokia doesn't include it, they will be out a few hundred bucks01:43
greenflywhich will take down their entire global operation01:44
uhsfeverywhere it's like nokia n900 now shipping to america. give me a f* break usa doen't mean america01:44
GeneralAntillesds3, $649 direct from Nokia.01:45
GeneralAntillesds3, Amazon has it for $479.99 with a $50 register-for-Ovi mail-in-rebate.01:45
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wiretappedn900 *does* include a pony, rtfm n00b01:45
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GeneralAntillesuhsf, nobody said "america".01:45
GeneralAntillesuhsf, and it's not SHIPPING here.01:45
wiretappedI've used two n900's now01:46
wiretappedstill don't know where i'm buying mine01:46
greenflythe n900 is barely available in the flagship cities in the US, much less those states and definitely not in the rest of the US01:46
GeneralAntillesuhsf, the two flagship stores in the US, apparently, got about 200 units apiece and have started selling them to people on the waitlist.01:46
GeneralAntillesuhsf, so either chill out or leave.01:46
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GeneralAntillesHey, ho, it worked!01:47
microlithhey I think this place just got better01:47
* GeneralAntilles puts the banhammer back up on the mantle.01:47
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ds3GA: thanks.01:47
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GeneralAntillesds3, you ought to rip out the internals for your infernal machine. :P01:48
javispedrothis is not helping my chances of getting a DDP pony!01:48
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GeneralAntilleswiretapped, you aren't going to DDP, by the way?01:48
asdmI have a N770 I enabled usb host mode and installed Carman app and i plugged in the USB OBD reader to the N770 its registers at address5 but i think  the porgram only reads bluetooth devices01:49
asdmis there a way i can make the usb look like a bluetooth device to n77001:49
wiretappedI'd like to get the DDP01:49
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wiretappedbut i haven't got a reply01:49
wiretappedjust got the first mail saying i qualified01:49
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, you check the eStore?01:50
GeneralAntillesI didn't get any email, either, but the N900 suddenly appeared on the website.01:50
wiretappedjust when i signed up01:50
wiretappedoh01:50
wiretappedhmm01:50
wiretappedchecking now01:50
GeneralAntilleshttps://pro.forum.nokia.com/productList.do01:50
Milo-hmm, http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=327217 I'm getting exactly the same error, but I don't have vdso enabled in my kernel and therefore vdso cannot be disabled by echoing..01:51
GeneralAntilleslol, N75 for €240.54 or N900 for €250.01:51
wiretappednope, N75 is the only device available to me there :(01:51
GeneralAntillesHrm01:51
GeneralAntilleslogged in?01:51
wiretappedyeah01:51
GeneralAntillesTry reloading a couple time.01:51
Milo-and even though the date is from nearly 2 years ago, I'm trying to install maemo5-sdk, and that fails with exactly the same message01:51
Milo-any help?01:51
GeneralAntillesYou Forum Nokia matches your maemo.org username, presumably?01:51
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javispedroMilo-, you don't have vdso? are you exactly sure?01:52
javispedros/vdso/randomized vdso01:52
wiretappedno my maemo.org username is just my first name and that was already taken, so my forum nokia name is my email address (same email used for maemo.org)01:52
Milo-searched kernel and it says VDSO=n01:52
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, and when you emailed the DDP address you indicated such?01:52
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wiretappedyeah01:53
Milo-I assume it's "Compat VDSO support"01:53
GeneralAntillesHrm, odd.01:53
ds3GA: if the 3G modem is unlock....01:53
Milo-and that I have disabled01:53
GeneralAntillesWell, I'd suggest emailing them again.01:53
Milo-oh01:53
GeneralAntillesds3, unlocked as in the carrier subsidy definition or not-a-blackbox definition?01:54
Milo-glibc adds randomized VDSO01:54
Milo-did not know that01:54
ds3what is annoying is almost every ~4" screen device with a fast ARM has at least one fatal flaw :(01:54
javispedroMilo-: Compat VDSO support is exactly what you need to _enable_01:54
ds3GA: subsidy lock01:54
GeneralAntillesds3, they don't sell it subsidized through any carrier in the US as of yet.01:54
GeneralAntillesSo, yes, it's unlocked.01:54
Milo-javispedro oh, I thought I needed to _disable_ it :o01:54
ds3Oh01:54
RXrenesis8€250, that's only $370... wow01:54
GeneralAntilles(At that $479.99 price, by the way)01:54
ds3the sales guy at the TMO store hints they may pickup the N90001:55
Milo-javispedro I need to enable it so I can disable it? :)01:55
javispedroMilo-: disable randomized vdso (which is what compat vdso does)01:55
Milo-ah01:55
GeneralAntillesds3, so the rumors say, but I'm guessing that'll be next year some point.01:55
GeneralAntillesds3, for now they're all free and clear. ;)01:55
javispedroMilo-: did you build sbox?01:55
Milo-yes01:55
Milo-login fails01:55
GeneralAntillesRXrenesis8, you can get cool discounts, too, when you become a cool cat. :P http://maemo.org/profile/list/01:55
ds3GA: problem is, my N800 is on its last legs and I need a hand held device01:55
ds3so if I get one, it will not be torn apart01:55
javispedroMilo-: in which case you may want to patch sbox's used glibc with01:55
GeneralAntillesds3, get two! :P01:56
javispedroMilo-: http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-devel/2009-August/000457.html01:56
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ds3GA: the other thing is the TMO guys won't tell me a straight story on if my current dataplan SIM will work01:56
GeneralAntillesds3, well, as an N800 owner from day 1, I can nothing but recommend the N900.01:56
GeneralAntilles(been using it since September on AT&T)01:56
GeneralAntillesds3, Web'n'Walk?01:56
ds3GA: does it have the 2 SD slots i.e. is it crippled like the N810?01:56
GeneralAntilles1 microSD slot01:56
GeneralAntillesBut it has 32GB built-in01:56
pupnik_anybody see what cpu load pulse audio typically takes for speaker playback - always 17-18%?01:57
GeneralAntillesSo not as bad as it seems.01:57
ds3oh 32G...how much of that 32G is usable?01:57
GeneralAntilles2GB is used for application installation space, 768MB for swap and the rest is free.01:57
ds3is it like the 2G inside the 810? where 80%+ is used from day one01:57
Milo-javispedro is that a patch to glibc or the scratchbox-toolchain-*-glibc?01:57
pupnik_i just figured one could implement a 0.5ms delay to get a 1000hz notch filter01:57
GeneralAntillesWell, um, there'll be some number of cached Ovi Maps maps in there, too.01:57
GeneralAntillesBut those can be removed.01:57
pupnik_or maybe an inverted qms delay01:57
pupnik_1ms01:57
javispedroMilo-: scratchbox-core/libs.01:57
javispedronot any of the toolchains.01:58
javispedrobasically search for rtld.c somewhere in the sbox "core" tarball and patch that01:58
ds3if I can get 16G free, I can tolerate it01:58
pupnik_start filming video and watch it fill up01:59
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pupnik_the video isnt as wavy as with cheap phones, quite nice01:59
GeneralAntillesds3, I think the maps will be in the 500MB-1.5GB range.02:00
GeneralAntillesds3, it depends on region, though. That'd be my bet for US.02:00
ds3fill up? surely, it has a real time compression through the DSP, right? :D02:00
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ds3GA: I was very disappointed at their demo maps; this is to the point where I much rather use maemo-mapper anyday02:01
GeneralAntillesMaemo Mapper's being ported to Clutter02:01
GeneralAntillesSo it should be much friendlier on the N900.02:01
ds3is the GSM module data only or did they bring out the mic and speaker so it can be used as a speaker phone?02:02
GeneralAntillesOvi Maps on the N900 sucks.02:02
GeneralAntillesIt's a cellphone.02:02
ds3I am happy with the current Maemo mapper02:02
GeneralAntillesEarpiece and everything.02:02
ds3well... except for its choking on huge track files02:02
GeneralAntillesYeah02:02
ds3OHHHHHHH02:02
Milo-javispedro gah, gentoo provides binary packages only, so I guess I'll start this building from scratch ._·02:02
GeneralAntillesHardware will help with that.02:02
GeneralAntillesds3, which rock and where? :P02:02
javispedroMilo-: don't understimate the task of building sbox.02:02
ds3rock?02:02
GeneralAntillesHave you been hiding under. ;)02:03
Milo-javispedro well it seems like I will have to build it :)02:03
Milo-only binaries available through portage02:03
javispedrogood luck.02:03
GeneralAntillesIf you've got a data plan appended to your voice plan with T-Mobile right now it should work fine.02:03
ds3some big chunk in the easter island :D02:03
ds3I got a data plan but no voice plan02:03
Pavlovanyone made a google maps app for n900 yet?02:03
GeneralAntillesAh02:03
Milo-javispedro simply turning on the VDSO in kernel would fix this though?02:03
Pavlovone that doesn't take 15 minutes to start?02:03
GeneralAntillesIt should work fine02:03
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GeneralAntillessince you can just drop them SIM in02:04
ds3can I export the EDGE/GPRS/3G/etc via the WiFi?02:04
GeneralAntillesand they don't have any real way to know what device you're using.02:04
javispedroMilo-: again, turning on compat VDSO == disabling randomizing VDSO02:04
javispedroyes.02:04
GeneralAntillesNot out of the box, but sure, that's something that can be setup easily enough02:04
* lcuk burns vdso32=0 with fire02:04
ds3GA: some TMO folks say I have to get a new plan for the 3G stuff and other says I am all set02:04
hardakerPavlov: an open street maps app existed for the n8xx devices, which would be better (IMHO) if that would get improvement.  needs routing though.02:04
GeneralAntillesand I'm sure somebody will make a script or a nice utility to do it soon.02:04
DrIDKIs there any tutorial to install and make the hello word application with QT4 on the maemo5 SDK ?02:04
ds3GA: can it at least tether over BT?02:04
Milo-well, boot and retry02:04
Pavlovi mostly just want traffic and address searching02:04
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ds3the problem is will they be able to get the WiLink firmware to run the N900 in a mix AP/Client mode02:05
GeneralAntillesds3, not out of the box, but it's pretty trivial to setup. http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles02:05
* lcuk just wants a helicopter02:05
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javispedroDear Nokia. Please provide me a helicopter with my N900 or else you will lose quite a large chunk of the smartphone market.02:05
ds3GA: did they bring out the S-Video or HDMI ports?02:05
GeneralAntillesThe 3.5mm jack is A/V02:06
GeneralAntillesSo, composite.02:06
lcukdoes the pony require travel sickness pills?02:06
GeneralAntillesBut it's the best looking composite I've ever seen.02:06
ds3WHOA02:06
ds3:)~~~~~~~02:06
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ds3it is a shame the Pico DLP doesn't support composite out of the box02:06
lcukds3, video out is absolutely stunning02:06
andre__hmm, helicopters... icecream machine would be cooler though.02:06
GeneralAntillesds3, VGBA looks really good on composite.02:06
lcukbacon grill is enough for me02:06
* microlith wonders if he could borrow the reflow station at work to break out the dvi signals...02:06
lcuknot exactly an end user friendly modification02:07
ds3GA: I was looking for a portable way of getting a larger screen for the few rare cases I need it...i.e. show pictures at a camp site02:07
javispedroicecream! dealbreaker!!02:07
* lcuk usd to do smt repair02:07
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ds3it doesn't ahve to look good... Beagle Board composite quality is acceptable ;)02:07
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lcukds3, ive had it on portable projectors02:08
microlithlcuk: 'course not, considering it'd require creation of a shim pcb to reroute those signals without altering the existing ones :>02:08
lcukadhoc kitty teasing device (he chased tux around the wall!02:08
ds3lcuk: it depends... if you have a PicoDLP on hand....02:08
lcukwhy take a picodlp02:09
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lcukdont you carry a 32" tv in your pocket?02:09
ds3uh...err02:09
lcukyou could pimp your camper van02:10
microlithlcuk: the creases get distracting after a while...02:10
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ds3I like the Pico? :D02:10
lcukis that a pico in your pocket or are you just cold?02:10
ds3heheh it doesn't get THAT hot ;)02:11
* ds3 hides the dual opterons 02:11
lcukheh02:12
* lcuk downloads new ubuntu02:12
ds3anyone tried running the gvm on the N900?02:12
lcukwhats gvm02:13
ds3Garnet Virtual Machine02:13
lcuknot me then02:13
ds3the Palm emulator from Access that is in Beta on the older devices02:13
javispedroqwerty12_N810 did.02:13
ds3was it painful to install?02:13
ds3the N900 seems like the ideal thing to replace the N800 tetering to a Treo02:14
ds3but for legacy reasons, I need the palm stuff02:14
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javispedrothree words: keep the palm.02:15
ds3why?02:15
ds3don't trust garnet?02:15
javispedrodon't.02:16
ds3overall, I am happy with the GVM02:16
javispedrowell, if it works already for you...02:16
ds3I just need the datebook/todo list/memo things02:17
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javispedrotry them on your n800 before jumping.02:17
ds3I did; it is just the expiration part that has me irked02:17
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GeneralAntillesds3, Maemo 5 has calendar and todo.02:19
GeneralAntillesThey're not perfect, but they're workable.02:19
ds3is it like the Gnome/KDE stuff?02:19
ds3I have yet to find something that is as useable as the Palm stuff02:19
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzdxID_mSlU02:19
javispedrods3: good luck...02:20
GeneralAntillesActually, all of these videos are pretty useful: http://www.youtube.com/user/Maemo5UITeam02:20
ds3can't look at them at the moment02:20
Milo-javispedro thank you :) the shell at least seems to work now02:21
GeneralAntillesOverview looks like this http://wiki.maemo.org/images/thumb/1/15/Calendar.png/500px-Calendar.png02:21
simulathe vga out over video is sweet looking02:21
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ds3VGA out?!02:22
anprrrrrhello guys02:22
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GeneralAntillesDamn that Jon Reece!02:23
ds3GA: btw, the clear plastic version (less the buttons) is available for sale now02:23
GeneralAntillesHa, awesome.02:24
GeneralAntillesWhere?02:24
anprrrrranyone from the UK ?02:24
ds3specialcomp but they been slow with listing the unit02:24
GeneralAntillesanprrrrr, lots of folks.02:24
anprrrrrany news ?02:24
ds3got to mail them02:24
ds3I also have them but I am mostly sold out (this is before listing it)02:25
GeneralAntillesWorst part is the lowres LCD. :(02:25
ds3*nod* working on fixing that02:25
GeneralAntillesWish the N810 LCDs were readily available at a reasonable price.02:25
ds3other paying projects has been preempting a 800x480 version02:25
pupnik_i never know whether to use MyDocs or MyDocs/.documents (which is annoying)02:27
ds3with the higher speed of the 900, has anyone gotten a HP48 emulator working at a reasonable speed yet?02:28
ds3i.e. x4802:28
pupnik_ty GeneralAntilles for uiteam link02:28
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* lardman goes to bed02:28
lardmannight all02:28
javispedronite02:28
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GeneralAntillesds3, haven't noticed if anybody's uploaded one.02:29
GeneralAntillesds3, Almost TI85 works like a charm, though. ;)02:29
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ds3well... I kind of like the stack02:29
ds3it is like having an adding tape machine02:29
ds3what puzzles me is the HP48 emulator works fine on a PXA270 device (Treo) but it chokes on the OMAP2 N80002:30
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Dantonicman where is the N900!!!! where is it??! AAAAAAAAH02:31
javispedroin tmo.02:31
* GeneralAntilles throws a wet towel over Dantonic.02:31
Dantonicomg so tired of waiting :P02:32
microlithsuch antsy people02:32
Dantonicnow my order on amazon says I have to wait until after December 25th!!!02:32
ds3If everything people say is true, there is no point in getting an Archos 5 and reflashing it02:32
GeneralAntillesDantonic, next week seems to the current favorite.02:32
DantonicI hope so02:32
DantonicI'm debating re-ordering it to get the extra $50 rebate from nokia02:32
GeneralAntillesDantonic, my bet is that you'll be able to get it anyway.02:33
DantonicI'm on the phone with amazon right now actually.. on hold02:33
ds3does the N900 use the microUSB charger a-la N810 or the standard Nokia chargers?02:33
GeneralAntillesds3, microUSB02:33
ds3SIGH02:33
GeneralAntillesThe N810 used the standard Nokia charger, though.02:33
javispedrowhat rock and where?02:33
GeneralAntillesYeah, sigh indeed.02:33
DantonicI've heard that no matter when the pre-orders are placed, they will all be shipped together02:33
GeneralAntillesds3, too many idiots whining for USB charging. . . .02:34
ds3GA: I just want a way to charge it in the car... I just found a high current car charger a few months ago02:34
GeneralAntillesds3, for the Nokia?02:34
ds3so it'd be back to inverter + AC charger02:34
ds3GA: yes... I found a 12V charger that works as well as the AC charger02:34
pupnik_waiting for n900 until after christmas would really hurt, sorry Dantonic02:35
GeneralAntillesds3, the box includes an adapter that'll adapt both of the old style Nokia chargers to microUSB.02:35
Dantonicya thanks pupnik_ I appreciate that02:35
GeneralAntillesI doubt very much Amazon's estimate is much good.02:35
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pupnik_usb charging even if trickle is very nice - n900 comes with adapter to let you charge n900 with standard nokia charger also02:36
DantonicI just really expected to have it by now... hopefully next week02:36
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pupnik_however it appears we had the choice of usb charging *OR* host mode, which is a bit of a pickle02:37
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GeneralAntillesBe nice if they'd put 2 USB ports on.02:37
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GeneralAntillesds3, oh, also, the camera kicks ass.02:39
ds3we lost host mode?!02:39
ds3ggrrrrrrr02:39
ds3it may be rarely used but being able to get to a CDROM or a thumbdrive in those rare occasions is nice02:40
GAN900Well, we lost OTG02:40
GAN900Host mode may still be an option.02:40
ds3for us 800 users, we never had OTG02:40
ds3esp. since the mode pin wasn't brought out02:41
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pupnik_aha ty for the clarification02:42
pupnik_playing openarena / quake3 with accelerometers is not something to let a drunk person do with your n90002:43
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pupnik_i found it slightly dizzying sober02:43
GAN900ds3, OTG worked here.02:45
GAN900ds3, I bought one of the adaptors from jolouis.02:45
GAN900pupnik_, sensitivity and mouselook really need work.02:46
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pupnik_it is surprisingly workable02:47
pupnik_and fun02:47
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wiretappeddoes the n900 have a compass?02:48
* wiretapped just read some conflicting answers on that02:48
GeneralAntillesNo02:49
GeneralAntillesPeople on the internet are just idiots.02:49
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wiretappedThere is a comment at http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/discussions/board/message?board.id=smartphones&message.id=163007 about a video where "a Nokia representative mentions a digital compass in N900"02:50
wiretappedbut the video has been removed by the user who posted it02:50
wiretappedbut you're sure?02:50
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type_thola02:54
wiretappedi mean, you probably didn't think your n800 had an fm radio ;)02:55
javispedrothere's no digital compass.02:55
Shapeshifterjavispedro: can software fix that? xD (joking)02:55
ShapeshifterI'm infected by the forum level of questions02:56
javispedrono, but brainwashing can02:56
Shapeshifterahhh right02:56
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type_tmay be a sun dial might help..02:56
Shapeshifteryou can put the n900 in a bowl with water and it will adjust pointing north02:57
wiretappedis there an analog compass? =p02:57
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, it's not anywhere apparent.02:57
Shapeshifteryou can use the n900 though to call someone to ask them where north is.02:58
Shapeshifterhope that is a useful workaround.02:58
type_tbut we can think of code to get it to strap a GPS position and find its direction of travel.02:58
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pwnguinas long as you only turn with a radius of 10 meters02:59
DrIDKHow Can I install qt4-devel and play with it ? on maemo sdk freemantle ?03:00
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type_twhat type of compression packed is qt4 .deb ?03:11
GeneralAntillesCompression?03:11
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javispedrotype_t: gzip, but I guess that doesn't answer your question.03:13
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type_tha ok i see you you know .. i unpack .deb packages with 7zipmanager on windows and i get tar after first unpack control.tar and data.tar so ..03:15
javispedrowhy are you doing that?03:15
ali1234type_t: the files that get installed in the fs are in data.tar03:16
ali1234which is not compressed, it's a tar file03:17
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RXrenesis81. Look at your watch; is it before or after noon?03:22
RXrenesis82. if you answered "before" the sun is over the eastern sky, if you answered "after, the sun is over the western sky.03:23
RXrenesis83. ^ compass03:23
ali1234what if its cloudy.............03:23
ali1234or exactly noon?03:23
RXrenesis8you should not be outside when it is cloudy, people get UV burns from that. and everyone knows that from 12:00 02:00 is siesta time03:24
RXrenesis8PROBLEMS SOVED OKAY?!03:24
ds3apparently the vikies had a special stone to solve teh cloudy case03:25
ali1234what if its night time?03:25
GeneralAntillesblah blah blah military training03:25
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ds3polaris03:25
ali1234what if its night time and cloudy and you lost your watch and n900?03:26
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ds3up the stream w/o a paddle03:27
Proteousali1234 was eaten by a grue03:28
javispedroknowing you, if you lost your n900, you're not outside at night time and cloudy.03:36
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GeneralAntillesSSH can usually confirm if it's in the building at least. ;)03:38
javispedroouch. every time the clocks on CPUs speed up, engadget finds a way to slow their site.03:38
GeneralAntillesIndeed03:38
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javispedroman.03:39
lcukmicrosoft has the same inverse performance function03:39
javispedroif it it brings my desktop to a halt.03:39
ds3Firefox!03:39
javispedroI can't even begin to imagine how it'll perform in _any_ embedded device.03:39
jaemgood morning03:39
ds3you got it all wrong... an embedded device is a pallet sized device that us embedded into the ground03:40
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ds3;)03:40
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, it works OKish on the N900.03:40
GeneralAntillesFine once it's loaded, anyway.03:40
jaemdid you folks see this? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzcxNQ03:41
javispedrosame as my desktop, but there's a quite noticeable pause where everything hangs for 10-15 seconds03:41
jaemalso, http://www.bada.com/03:41
javispedrowhile loading.03:41
jaemlooks interesting03:41
GeneralAntillesjaem, it's Samsung.03:41
jaemGeneralAntilles, yes, your point?03:41
GeneralAntillesThey've got no text padding on the left on MicroB.03:42
GeneralAntillesjaem, they're a LiMo backer.03:42
jaemGeneralAntilles, ah03:42
GeneralAntillesLiMo is evil03:42
jaemthey're calling this an "open mobile platform"... I take it it's not as open as they'd like to make it sound?03:42
javispedroah, and Nokia is even going to sponsor yet another engadget show!03:43
GAN900jaem, who the hell knows.03:43
GAN900There's no real info available.03:43
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GAN900javispedro, it's like a beaten spouse.03:44
GAN900They just keep going back for more.03:44
GAN900Hell, they're just entrenching Engadget more since now if they changed their tune they'd be "sellouts".03:45
javispedrobasically.03:45
* GAN900 is excited about Barcelona.03:45
javispedroI don't know what to expect...03:46
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ds3open mobile platform? isn't that basically a peice of plywood on a snow slope?03:47
jaemds3, that's a sled03:47
jaemeasy to confuse03:47
jaemand no, not SLED03:47
ds3surely... it is open, mobile, and a platform :D03:47
ds3did you not just make such claims?03:48
jaemds3, find me a sled that I can get a root shell on, and I might be interested03:48
microlithalso, engadget's new layout burns the eyes03:48
ds3nothing stopping you from hollowing out a burl and putting it on there03:48
jaemds3, -grin-03:49
pupnik_N900 multitasking is fantastic - 12 windows, one a paused sdl game, no system load03:49
jaempupnik_, I know :D03:49
jaemit's great03:49
* microlith shakes a tiny fist at Nokia03:50
VDVsxGAN900, Limo is a deal breaker, everybody knows that :P03:50
pupnik_this zeemote library by mr harbaum is great - we need a hack to control x pointer with zeemote03:50
jaemis the zeemote a specific product?03:51
pupnik_control N900 for presentations and games03:51
jaemor just the name of the driver?03:51
pupnik_yes, cheap bt controller03:51
jaemah, neat03:51
jaemhow cheap?03:51
pupnik_great and very unobtrusive03:51
pupnik_12-18 eu here03:51
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pupnik_but where is no joystick kernel module so maybe we could cheat and pretend it is a wacom pad03:52
pupnik_?03:52
javispedrothis is something we need to agree on someday03:53
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pupnik_brainstorm on t.m.o?03:53
javispedrosome common joystick interface -- of course the usual linux one would be preferable, but dunno.03:53
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pupnik_javis can you send me drnoksnes with zeemote support ?03:53
pupnik_@ javispedro03:53
pupnik_have no way to test real ergonomics03:54
javispedropupnik_: can you build drnoksnes itself?03:54
pupnik_sure03:55
javispedropupnik_: then get https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/download.php/1014/3791/4618/633/drnoksnes_zeemote.patch03:55
pupnik_just not setup03:55
javispedroif you want me to build you'll need to ping me tomorrow -- too asleep now.03:55
pupnik_maybe it takes me a week before compiles work03:55
pupnik_k03:55
pupnik_i get going03:55
pupnik_ty03:56
pupnik_i am still kind of in awe at n90003:56
javispedroyour reports about it being usable for gaming are comforting, truly.03:57
pupnik_heh03:57
* CoreFusion- realized that he has to get a wiimote before N900 arrives...03:57
GAN900VDVsx, drink!03:57
VDVsxglup!03:58
* javispedro remembers he needs to poke tmo about the 3d drivers and make attila drink03:58
pupnik_i would feel silly bringing a wiimote with the N900 - zeemote fits one hand, in pocket03:58
javispedroagreed pupnik_03:58
GAN900javispedro, hopefully not lots of riotus Maemo people if the N900 doesn't ship in time. ;)03:58
CoreFusion-zeemote?03:58
javispedroGAN900: riots are inevitable at this point ;)03:59
pupnik_yeah just got zeemote paired with n900 - it looks great03:59
GAN900pupnik_, friend of mine plays emus on the bus with Wiimote in one hand and N800 in the other.03:59
pupnik_will get dosbox zeemote jozstick FOR SURE03:59
javispedrothat's why we need to agree on something.03:59
javispedrolibzeemote requires libhildon03:59
javispedroadding on drnoksnes ... ok04:00
javispedroadding on every other SDL app ... :(04:00
pupnik_yep04:00
pupnik_quim sees it04:00
pupnik_so brainstorm i think04:00
CoreFusion-Nah, I'd rather get Wiimote04:00
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javispedropupnik_: ta!04:01
javispedroI might even fill a candidate solution for that bstorm item...04:01
jaemlol @ http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/11/stabbing_people.html04:01
pupnik_k will try to get drnok and dosbox built first04:02
javispedronp04:02
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CoreFusion-jaem: wtf?04:05
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ali1234heh, i forgot how annoying autocomplete and autocaps are04:06
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BBNSmmmm shipping madness!04:35
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pupnik_if you want to see a sdl game done right, check out "Ur-Quan Masters" UQM04:45
pupnik_upper left click paises game and returns to app overview04:46
pupnik_pauses04:46
jaemdoes anyone have any experience with using minigpsd's advanced features on the N810?04:46
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jaemspecifically, I'm wondering how difficult it is to serve up GPS info to an external host over Wifi/BT04:47
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lcukpupnik_, dashboard04:50
pupnik_ah ty04:50
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pupnik_zeesteroids isnt a bad test either05:14
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* GeneralAntilles stabs Perl to death.05:23
GeneralAntillesInstalling Perl dependencies makes me want to kill myself.05:23
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mzzheh, I don't normally feel *that* strongly about it05:25
GeneralAntillesOne stupid little mobi2html script is sucking my lifeblood away.05:25
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pupnik_i know dep tree mudbog GeneralAntilles05:28
pupnik_very well05:28
pupnik_days on end05:28
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pupnik_  PID  PPID USER     STAT   RSS %MEM %CPU COMMAND06:40
pupnik_  715     1 pulse    S <   3552  1.4 25.4 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority06:40
pupnik_mp3 playback06:40
pupnik_i bet we can improve on that06:41
pupnik_e.g. only activate eq at high volume06:41
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ShadowJKflash is pretty terrible, it pegs my Q9550 CPU at 100% and then it starts skipping video :)07:46
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pupnik_been chatting on n900, occasional surfing, and frequent mp3 playback for 10 hours07:57
pupnik_been chatting on n900, occasional surfing, and frequent mp3 playback for 10 hours on one charge07:57
pupnik_there07:57
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pupnik_just hookung up charger because i dont want to drain to warning point07:58
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microlithpupnik_: not bad for heavy activity08:04
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pupnik_not heavi - xterm leaves cpu at idle08:05
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pupnik_only drains really wifi and screen08:05
pupnik_continuous surfing of evil sites maybe 4 hours08:06
pupnik_5.08:06
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microlithpupnik_: oh, that's nice08:35
* microlith shakes a tiny fist at Nokia08:35
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RST38h<yawn>09:16
RST38hEHLO ALL09:16
qwerty12Grr, you just made me yawn. Morning, RST38h09:17
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RST38hThe military's suicide rate among active-duty soldiers was about 20 per 100,000, nearly double the national U.S. rate of 11.1 suicides per 100,000 people, as reported by CDCP10:15
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genewitchanyone selling an n900?10:16
genewitch:-)10:16
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genewitchi can pre-order one from amazon for $479 after rebates, but i don't need the unlocked one i don't think10:18
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`0660_:P10:24
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RXrenesis8unlocked will be cheaper over time10:27
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pekujamight be, but you still need to pay for service separately10:38
genewitchRXrenesis8: yeah but i don't need one and i'm willing to spend the $580 now10:38
genewitchtmobile is the only us carrier with 3g10:39
genewitchfor it10:39
genewitchso why bother getting an unlocked one10:39
pekujato stick it to the man?10:39
genewitchi live in a huge t-mobile market10:39
genewitchoh10:39
genewitchyeah10:39
genewitchi mean for me personally.10:40
pekuja;-)10:40
bigbrovargenewitch: am tempted to go with amazon too for that price, my current pre-order is with Newegg, but the $80+ extra bucks can be used for a 16gb card + bluetooth headset10:40
genewitchi can see a huge draw for it over an iphone in non-3g markets10:40
bigbrovaralthough i get to loose my standing in the line10:40
genewitchi've read reports that amazon won't ship it till after christmas10:40
genewitchI sorta wanted one, you know, now10:40
genewitchand froogle had a bunch a couple of weeks ago, now they're all pre-orders10:41
pekujahow much is a SIM-locked N900 in the US?10:41
genewitchno idea, that's what i am trying to find out10:41
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bigbrovargenewitch: well I think they are just being over permissmistic. ( or I hope )10:41
pekujadoes anyone carry it?10:41
genewitchI know there are people who had the locked ones for sale 2 weeks ago10:41
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genewitchpekuja: only online that i've found10:42
pekujaI think carriers might be shying away from it because of the VoIP capabilities10:42
genewitchif i buy it with my paypal card i save a percent10:42
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genewitchpekuja: has nothing to do with the carriers, it's the radio10:42
pekujathe radio?10:43
genewitchthe radio is incompatible with every US carrier except T-Mobile, and that's just a fluke, T-Mobile happened to buy that spectrum for 4+ billion dollars10:43
genewitchyeah10:43
pekujaah I see10:43
pekujaso T-Mobile is the only carrier you could even use it on?10:43
genewitchat&t10:43
genewitchat 2G speeds10:43
genewitchT-Mobile for 3G10:43
pekujawell yeah10:44
genewitchin the US that's it10:44
pekujawhat's the maximum for 2G?10:44
genewitchunder 200kbit10:44
pekujayeah10:44
genewitchn900's max 3g speed is 10.1 mbit10:44
genewitchat least on tmobile's service10:44
pekujaso there are no SIM-locked N900's available in the US10:45
genewitchpekuja: not in stores, only online10:45
genewitchi've been asking for weeks, everyone looks it up and says no10:45
pekujaso who has it online?10:45
pekujaI'm looking at T-Mobile's site and they don't have it10:45
genewitchI don't know, i can't remember the sites i saw it on10:45
genewitchthe sites i saw it on weren't cellular providers, they were like cellphone stores10:45
pekujaok10:46
pekujaand they sell SIM-locked phones too?10:46
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genewitchyeah they sold blackberries and androids and whatever10:48
pekujaok10:48
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pekujathe market is different there I guess.10:48
pekujawe have a very different market here in Finland probably because selling a phone with a contract was illegal for a long time10:49
genewitchah10:49
genewitchwe can do stuff without contracts here10:49
genewitchyou just have to pay full price10:49
pekujayeah10:49
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pekujabut I mean the culture is different10:50
genewitchand verizon wants you to pay a deposit anyhow10:50
pekujapeople are more willing to pay full price10:50
genewitchwell in the US it's more like people with good credit can get away with cheap phones and contracts10:51
pekujaand most of the contract deals aren't such where you are forced to pay for an expensive contract you don't need10:51
genewitchyeah10:51
genewitchthe n900 is gunna cost me $70 a month to use10:51
genewitchi shouldn't ever go over my minutes cause i have voip lines coming out of every orifice10:52
pekujaeven the iPhone you can get for around 20 euros a month with a two year contract10:52
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genewitchthat's dirt cheap10:52
pekujayeah10:53
genewitchthat's also $70 here10:53
pekujayou basically just pay for the phone, and the contract is cheap10:53
genewitchwait, though that might be the same10:53
pekuja20 euros is around $3010:53
genewitchnah it'd be 47 euros10:53
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genewitchdo the iphones get 3g speed and unlimited data usage?10:54
pekujano, but you can upgrade your contract to get that10:54
genewitchcause that's the perk for iphones in the USA. they're one of the few phones that both get unlimited bandwidth and can use more than the carriers cap you at10:54
genewitchthe other one is android, but that's $10 more a month10:54
pekujayou can get an unlimited data plan at 384kbps for about 10 euros a month10:55
genewitchthat's really slow though10:55
genewitchiphones here get 800-1200kbits10:55
pekujafor 1M it's 20 euros a month10:55
aquatixmorning all10:55
genewitchthat's cool10:55
genewitchpekuja: how much does a locked n900 cost where you are?10:56
pekujaI don't think they sell locked ones here10:56
genewitchwell whatever, the standard n90010:56
genewitchhow much does it cost10:56
pekujaI think even the ones from carriers are unlocked10:56
pekujait's about 600 euros10:56
genewitchouuuch10:56
genewitchthat's double what i am going to pay10:57
pekujayeah, that's close to $90010:57
aquatixhm, here in the Netherlands it's listed in online stores starting at 53010:57
genewitch530 euros is still a lot10:57
aquatixtrue10:57
aquatixbut damn, it's some package :)10:57
genewitchi'm looking for less than 350 euros10:57
pekujayeah I think the cheapest deals here are about 540 euros10:57
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genewitchgrrrrr10:58
genewitchi really want one, i guess i'll have to just wait and use my n800 for EVERYTHING until i get it.10:58
pekuja480 usd on Amazon, right?10:58
aquatixfor less than 350 EUR, you might better look at an android phone or an n8x0 tablet10:58
aquatixdepending on what you want10:58
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genewitchpekuja: $520 with $50 mail in rebate10:58
pekujaok, so $47010:59
genewitchyeah thereabouts10:59
pekujagenewitch: do you have to pay taxes on top of that or is it tax-free?10:59
genewitchwell it depends. technically you have to pay taxes but amazon won't charge them.10:59
pekujaan important thing to notice when comparing European and US prices is that European prices usually include taxes10:59
pekujathe Amazon deal is still really good though11:00
genewitchpekuja: in general, buying stuff online is tax free at the point of sale. you're supposed to claim the tax at the end of the year, but no one does.11:00
pekujaah, I see11:00
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pekujaaquatix: are N810's still available?11:01
genewitchnot in stores11:01
genewitchon ebay, yes11:01
pekujayeah11:01
genewitchfor over $300, usually11:01
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pekujaI remember looking at them a while back... they were pretty cheap before they stopped selling them11:01
genewitchi guess you can use them in Baltimore on a 4G network11:01
pekujashould had bought one :-P11:01
genewitchi'm not going to bother pre-ordering the phone11:03
genewitchi'll just wait till it comes out and everyone has one that wants one then i'll buy one. so maybe have one in january?11:04
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genewitchi had my hopes up to get it next week but i guess that's a ruined dream :'(11:04
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pekuja:-/11:04
genewitchanyhow it's late here so i am going to go to sleep11:04
pekujagood night11:04
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aquatixgenewitch: nn11:05
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dbkhello12:44
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mtnmanhello12:46
mtnmananybody home?12:49
sijkmaybe12:51
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mtnmanmaybe not?12:52
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mtnmanhello12:57
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range.oO ( hello ... echo ... )13:05
mtnmanelho13:05
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lardmanhey chaps13:57
Stskeepsheya13:57
lbto/ lardman13:57
lardmanI've got a curious problem, am trying to pass a string from my dialog constructor fn to the dialog callback handler, but it vanishes en-route13:57
lardmanhow are things lbt ?13:57
lbtbusy :)13:58
lbtwhich is good13:58
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lardmangood good :)13:59
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lbtyou?14:00
lardmanday job busy, but it's the weekend so now am debugging mbarcode busy :)14:00
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lardman~curse Nautilus for still having rubbish sftp:// support14:04
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, Nautilus for still having rubbish sftp:// support !14:04
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lardmanhmm, very odd, I've no clue why my string in vanishing14:05
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lardmanhmm, I wonder if it's being freed somewhere else... The wonders of threading14:07
RST38hdo you have any reasons to use dynamic memory allocation?14:08
RST38has opposed to just declaring that data on top?14:08
lardmanYeah, I can't know what the barcode will contain14:08
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RST38hbut does it have a limited length?14:09
lardmanprobably not14:09
lardmanand in fact I am using a char array that the decoder passes me14:09
RST38hoh...14:09
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lardmanalso the fact that the lookups may take a while, means that the threads need to have a copy of the data, etc14:09
RST38hmessy,14:10
lardmanyeah14:10
lardmannice, that's sorted it14:10
lardmanschool boy error - had to move from a blocking dialog to a async one, and forgot where the string was being freed14:11
* RST38h wonders if the lemmings are gonna leave tmo once they all get their n900s14:12
* lardman has nearly given up looking there14:12
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* lardman goes back to pondering how to not have to handle every payload type14:14
lardmanhas anyone else had troubles with .desktop files from Fremantle not working on Diablo?14:19
lardmanor service files for that matter?14:19
* RST38h has not tried yet14:21
RST38hBut I am using the same files without changes14:21
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lardmanhmm, perhaps it's something in the Fremantle one too then, not checked that yet14:22
lardmando you know about svn?14:22
RST38ha bit, not a lot14:22
lardmansvn: Commit failed (details follow):14:22
lardmansvn: File or directory 'debian/changelog' is out of date; try updating14:23
lardmansvn: The version resource does not correspond to the resource within the transaction.  Either the requested version resource is out of date (needs to be updated), or the requested version resource is newer than the transaction root (restart the commit).14:23
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lardmanI've updated the file from outside the tree, bad I know14:23
lardmancan I force it to update?14:23
lardmancommit even14:23
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RST38hah I know this one14:23
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RST38hthe "right" way to fix this is to update your tree fro the repository14:24
lardmanyeah, but that's out of date now14:24
RST38hso that whatever changes were made to that file by someone else will be merged into your local copy14:24
RST38hthen you can commit14:24
RST38hok, then do this14:25
lardmanI made the changes from a different checkout actually14:25
RST38hMove your file away. Update. Copy your file back. Commit.14:25
lardmandamn14:25
lardmanah well14:25
RST38hthat will fix it14:25
RST38hif you are absolutely sure you are not gonna keep any changes fro the svn copy14:26
lardmanhmm, actually if you do svn update it flags the file and you can select "mf" to choose your file as the correct one14:27
lardmanthanks for the pointer14:27
lardmananyway fixed now, I hope ;)14:28
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lardmanstrange how svn update doesn't overwrite new changes to files14:28
lardmanmy misunderstanding of how it works14:28
RST38hhmm...a chemist reports that the famous Anarchist's Cookbook is full of wrong recipes =)14:29
lardmanlol14:29
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RST38hAlmost like someone saving himself time tracking all the idiots down, so that he could just regularly go over hospital records in search of characteristic injuries =)14:30
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lardman:)14:31
lardmanIn .desktop files, what does Version refer to? I seem to remember seeing this on the ml in a thread about whether it's the app version or the file format14:32
RST38hthat is for control files I think. Verifying14:32
RST38hOk, in .desktop file, that is YOUR app version14:33
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lardmanreally?14:33
lardmanoh ok14:33
RST38hIn control file, there is this: Standards-Version: 3.6.114:33
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lardmanperhaps that's why it doesn't work14:33
RST38hTHAT is the control file version14:33
lardmanok cool14:33
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mordbeen comparing diablo and 0.16 and for some reason fennec simply flies on 0.1614:38
mord:)14:38
mord(n810)14:38
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morderm. wrong channel, this. so sorry14:39
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VDVsxdamn, is -devel still down or I broke something ? :)15:00
KMFDMVDVsx, i've been unable to connect to -devel15:01
KMFDMfor 3 weeks with my phone15:01
KMFDMstrangely my pc can load the file my phone claims it can't load perfectly fine15:02
RST38hwrong app manager config?15:02
KMFDMRST38h, the config is correct. I checked it several times and also tried completely re-entering it15:02
KMFDMtesting also doesn't work15:02
VDVsxRST38h, humm, I got this: W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/Release  No Hash entry in Release file /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle_Release15:02
VDVsxKMFDM, -testing works here15:03
VDVsx-extras too15:03
KMFDM-extras works for me15:03
RST38hah15:03
KMFDMbut -devel and -testing don't15:03
RST38hSomebody explained why -devel gets this problem a whle ago15:03
RST38hStskeeps, I think15:04
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Stskeepsno, jeremiah?15:04
RST38hmaybe....15:04
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RST38hit is a problem with the repository indeed15:04
VDVsxbahh15:05
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VDVsxwow 75p from the Maemo long weekend .. and counting :)15:07
VDVsxmini-summit :D15:07
lcukfinnish winter holiday15:08
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lcukmornin VDVsx15:09
VDVsxlcuk, hhihi15:09
VDVsxlcuk, morning lcuk15:09
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lbtDon't bother handling malloc returns null, just quit ... http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/1999815:21
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pupnikN900 battery is fine for all-day use if you dont keep a cpu hog running16:47
pupnikimo16:47
javispedropupnik: did you try a stress test with 100% cpu usage?16:48
pupniknope16:49
sgbirchJaffa: I have always been confused by Forum Nokia, not to mention maemo version numbers/names16:49
sgbirchJaffa: But I do so love Nokia's Linux products16:50
pupnikjavispedro: now that i ave external charger i may keep a spare battery with me if i am gone all day16:50
javispedroyeah... sigh.16:50
pupnikfastest discharge i had was about 5 hours16:51
javispedroI will try some powersaving settings ... like maxxing cpufreq at 330 Mhz or the like16:51
pupnikyou might be able to get it down to three :)16:52
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javispedros/maxxing/capping16:52
sgbirchpupnik: While I wait for th n900 I am using an HP6509 (wm5),  5 hours is a *dream* on that16:52
javispedro3 hours is what I was told.16:52
pupnikoh just wlan no cell sgbirch16:52
javispedrowith full stress testing16:53
pupnikjust screen wlan and cpu16:53
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sgbirchjavispedro: 3 hours with everything turned on?16:53
pupnikmeh i am interested in my own use profile.  and N900 handles xterm/screen at idle speed16:53
javispedrosgbirch: or at least 100% cpu usage16:54
pupnikthree sounds right16:54
pupnikthose 10 hours i had a paused sdl game using no cpu16:54
javispedroand thus the reason I'll probably underclock it.16:54
sgbirchjavispedro: that isnt bad .. 3 with the processor spinning16:55
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javispedropupnik: sdl apps paused tick a 10Hz clock16:55
javispedrowhich drains battery16:55
pupnikah16:55
sgbirchjavispedro: I have been very impressed with my n810, it sips power16:55
javispedro10Hz or 10KHz, I don't remember ;P16:55
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pupnikjavispedro - it is real cool that pause feature - know how it is done?16:56
pupnikhopefully 10 hz16:56
pupnikuqm source should  have it16:56
javispedropupnik: no, sdl has no pause feature .. but SDL_WaitEvent does tick16:57
javispedroso the only way to pause sanely is block on d-bus or the like16:57
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pupniki believe unix has SIGSUSP ?16:58
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javispedroyeah16:59
javispedrobut it's hard to SIGCONT with a keypress then16:59
javispedrounless you have a daemon doing that16:59
javispedroiirc it was requested sometime to send SIGSUSP to processes by system16:59
javispedrowhen idle.16:59
pupnikwell the windowmanager process stll runs16:59
pupnikthat should be susp and cont ing, no?17:00
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javispedroit could do that, as I was saying, it was requested17:00
pupnikcool17:01
javispedrobut I don't even remember the bug # ...17:01
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pupnikhowever uqm does it is good  enuf17:01
sgbirchThe wait for the n900 is killing me ..17:02
javispedroso now someone just affirmed Mario Kart runs at 40fps in the G117:03
javispedroeven though tit sucks (less than 10fps) on all youtube videos17:03
lcukwhat does it run at on the n90017:03
javispedroprobably just a bit better than n810 -- 20fps or the like17:03
* javispedro sighs17:03
javispedroI wonder where could I find a G1 owner around there ...17:04
javispedros/there/here17:06
pupnikwhat is g1? android?17:06
pupnikn900? 20 maybe17:07
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javispedrohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQkAKKRUFbg17:07
javispedroi don't what's the frameskip on that17:08
javispedrobut my n810 plays it a bit faster than that _without_ frameskip17:08
pupnikthe problems with n900 are a hardware fault (speaker response) fixed in software eq17:08
pupnikwhick takes 15-25 percent cpu17:08
javispedroso, horrible.17:09
pupnikand no scaled blits costing another 15@percent or more17:09
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javispedropupnik: are you sure it's eq and not resampling?17:09
pupnikboth together17:09
javispedromake drnok output at 44100 or 48000 and measure17:09
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pupnikmaybe we could temp disable expensive pulseaudio and cheaply stream to dac17:09
javispedroor go back to using dsp for audio17:10
pupnikor just the app bypass it17:10
javispedroi don't know who decided against that...17:10
javispedrobypassing pulseaudio -- here by dragons17:10
pupnikwe just must limit the volume17:10
javispedros/by/be17:10
pupnikheh17:10
javispedroprobably uses the ALSA device 100% of the time17:10
javispedronot to mention who knows what's the ALSA interface this time.17:11
javispedrobut iirc I read it is more sane than n810 since they're not using dsp anymore17:11
pupnikk17:11
pupnikinternal rate IS 48k17:12
pupnikpulse17:12
pupniksee /etc/pulse*17:12
javispedroidonthaveann900 ;)17:13
javispedrowell, and how's cpu usage at 48kHz?17:13
felipecI'm not sure if it makes sens to bypass pulseaudio17:15
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pupnikfelipec: we have an audio subsystem consuming 15-25 percent cpu17:21
felipecpupnik: when you use speakers17:22
pupniki dont mind becoming unpopular to make this an issue17:22
pupnikyes17:22
SpeedEvilpulseaudio is insanity.17:22
SpeedEvilAt least resamplingwise.17:22
felipecpupnik: which are crappy and will fry if you use then 100% all the time17:22
pupnikso allow high perf apps to play at low volume17:23
pupnikwithout bottleneck17:23
SpeedEvilA patch that adjusts the DAC frequency if there is no sound playing would be good.17:23
pupniktwo modes17:23
pupnikno17:23
SpeedEvilSo if there isn't sound playing, and a sound source starts at 48KHz - it clocks the DAC to 48KHz17:24
javispedrono, I can easily make the emu render at 48kHz and seems that doesn't cause cpu usage to drop17:24
felipecpupnik: you can do that by issuing the ALSA ioctls I guess17:24
pupnikone mode where app generates 48khz and disablesm resampling and eq17:24
SpeedEvilSample format conversion? though that should not sanely do that.17:24
felipecpupnik: if you send 48khz there's no resampling17:25
javispedroit's more easy for the emu to do conversion -- think it knows about the spc700 it is emulating.17:25
felipecand you can manually disable the equalizer I think17:25
javispedroand not everything is sampled sound at that level.17:25
pupnikfelipec: that would be the app level solution!17:26
javispedroif you can manually disable eq, wouldn't speakers fry as said?17:26
SpeedEvilGenerally not, you'll worst-case get distortion.17:27
pupniklower volume17:27
felipecjavispedro: that's not the equalizer, that's x-prot, different filter17:27
Flandry"generally not"17:27
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pupniklimit emulator voloume to 50 percent for all i care :)17:27
javispedroso it's x-prot the one pupnik finds using CPU -- not eq17:28
javispedrocause why would eq be enabled then17:28
pupnikahh a googlable term surfaces! :)17:28
toggles_whmm... according to this, http://www.logicbuy.com/deals/newegg-black-friday-deals-and-coupons/16737.aspx that would make the n900 $504-ish, plus $50 rebated, down to $450?17:28
pupnikwow17:29
SpeedEviltoggles_w: Interesting.17:29
SpeedEviltoggles_w: that's ~ what I paid in the UK after all the rebates17:29
toggles_wi wonder if the 10% off will negate the rebate though...17:29
SpeedEvil(though they have not as of yet taken any payment)17:29
toggles_wstill, if amazon hasn't shipped mine, i might cancel and try the newegg deal ;-)17:30
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SpeedEvilOrder both, ebay one.17:30
toggles_wLOL17:30
felipecpupnik: how big are the buffers you are pushing to pulse17:30
_berto_guys, has anyone tried to change numeric values in the about:config window in the n900 ?17:31
pupnikask javispedro felipec17:32
javispedrofelipec: small17:32
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javispedroaround 512 2*16 bit samples.17:33
felipecjavispedro: well, the bigger the buffers, the better the performance17:33
javispedrothat was not the case with esd -- empirically tested.17:33
javispedroprobably because of dsp17:34
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javispedrowhich limited buffer size to something around PAGE_SIZE17:34
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javispedropupnik: so try bigger buffer sizes (arg "-b 512", "-b 1024", etc.)17:34
VDVsxdoes anyone knows what is the default lib used in maemo5 to parse conf files (ini-like) ?17:35
javispedroVDVsx: glib has some of that stuff17:35
pupnikand my app will pad-out samples to 48k17:35
javispedroVDVsx: GKeyFile17:35
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felipecjavispedro: the problem is the locking required between pulse threads and pushing buffers around17:36
VDVsxjavispedro, do you know if it preserves the comments in the files ?17:36
javispedroVDVsx: no, I never tried it.. :P17:36
felipecjavispedro: last time I tried 128k worked fine17:37
_berto_can anyone try to change any numeric value in about:config ?17:37
javispedropupnik: you could make a plot with buffer size vs pa cpu usage ;)17:37
VDVsxjavispedro, yes it preserves, thanks ;)17:38
pupniki cant fix these problems17:39
javispedronote though that higher buffer sizes will distort -- that's something I'm considering to workaround17:39
pupniki tried17:39
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VDVsx_berto_, in the browser ?17:39
_berto_VDVsx: yes17:39
_berto_VDVsx: I can't change any numeric setting17:39
VDVsx_berto_, let me try here17:40
_berto_VDVsx: thanks17:40
pupnikjavispedro: that distortion is a bug17:40
javispedronot a bug, but rather a // TODO ;)17:40
pupnikright17:40
pupnikor wontfix17:40
javispedrobut the CPU usage measures should be good.17:40
javispedroif buffer size does help much an easy workaround is to just buffer in my app after rendering17:41
javispedroinstead of sending every rendered buffer to pa17:41
VDVsx_berto_, confirmed (42-11)17:42
_berto_VDVsx: you mean you can't either? :)17:42
pupnikahh17:42
VDVsxthe dialog does nothing17:42
_berto_okay17:42
_berto_the funny thing is that i haven't seen anything in bugzilla17:42
_berto_but there are other bugs about the browser config17:42
VDVsxbut I can change the booleans at least17:42
_berto_it can't be that no one noticed this before17:42
_berto_yes, and strings too17:42
_berto_i'll report it anyway17:43
VDVsx_berto_, yeah the dialog for ints is different17:43
_berto_yes17:43
_berto_VDVsx: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=627017:48
povbotBug 6270: Can't modify numeric settings in about:config17:48
_berto_ok, reported, I'm leaving now17:49
_berto_see you17:49
VDVsxbye17:49
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lopzhi ;]18:03
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RST38h'The Apple store called and informed me that due to the computer having been used in a house where there was smoking, [the warranty has been voided] and they refuse to work on the machine "due to health risks of second hand smoke,"' wrote one customer18:08
RST38hCute18:09
javispedrooh, hi RST38h18:09
pekujasecond hand smoke from a laptop that has been used in a smoking household?18:09
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mikhaswell, PCs from a smokers smell terrible18:10
luke-jrRST38h: sounds about right, at least as far as voiding the warranty18:10
luke-jrpresumably they apply it equally, and don't honour warrantys if cat hairs are found eitehr18:11
pekujasmell is one thing, but second hand smoke?18:11
mikhasthat one I dont know, sounds wrong to me.18:11
mikhasthere are all kind of unhealthy things in a PC18:11
luke-jryeah, but smoke/cat hair can damage it18:12
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DocScrutinizeractually I never seen a PC damaged by smoke18:17
RST38hluke: or just reserve the right to refuse servicing any computer with explanation "your pc is disgusting"18:17
javispedrothere are horror stories all around the www about pcs literally "filled" with smoke or greas18:18
DocScrutinizerRST38h: XD18:18
RST38hyea, they look pretty bad on the inside, cheaper to throw away18:18
javispedroI can believe some conscious techie  refuse working on it.18:18
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mikhasso the solution is to require the customer to clean up the computer, voiding the warranty while doing so =)18:21
* RST38h figures what he is gonna do to "Droid and Android gaming irony" thread participants18:22
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javispedroplease kill me :)18:22
RST38hjavis: So far it looks like Kaa talking to Bandar-logs18:23
Flandryi haven't visited that one since yesterday18:24
Flandryi thought i was on Engadget18:24
javispedroI still think the "older" one was worse.18:24
javispedrothe one where someone registered and shown us he had "13 emulators" avail for N900.18:24
javispedrothat's even before rst pushed his apps to -stable18:25
alteregoIs there somethig wrong with extras devel?18:25
RST38hAh, Wiki is sometimes SO true: "Their foolish and chattering ways are illustrated by their slogan: We are great. We are free. We are wonderful. We are the most wonderful people in all the jungle! We all say so, and so it must be true.. Bandar-log communicate almost entirely through the repetition of other animals' speech."18:25
Flandryit's hosted on maemo servers...18:25
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javispedrothough the whole Java argument is useless on that thread, since from what I've understood by quickly analyizing some droid emus only sound has to go through Java.18:29
javispedro(by quickly I mean may be inexact)18:29
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RST38hjavis: But of course. Only it does not matter to them18:29
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thuxmany of here wonders should they buy iphone 3 g s or n900, which one has better hardware? price seems to be close18:34
RST38h3gs of course18:34
javispedroyes.18:34
alteregoYeah, iPhone, why even ask.18:35
blimey3k3GS if you want a phone phone18:35
* alterego chuckles18:35
* javispedro sighs18:35
thuxok good to know, i don't know specs of either one18:35
alteregoWhy don't you go to #iphone and ask their opinion18:35
thuxis here #iphone channel?18:36
RST38hof course18:36
* andre__ takes a look under his bed if he still has those huge blinking irony markers18:36
RST38hJust not on this server I guess18:36
thuxseems so18:36
javispedrothere's even a haskell-iphone channel :P18:36
alteregoHeh18:36
RST38handre: is there a rocket engine too?18:37
thux#iphone ##iphone Forwarding to another channel18:37
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andre__RST38h, I can't talk about this here in public, sorry18:37
mikhasclever guys, a hidden channel!18:37
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RST38hmikhas: hidden stuff must be mighty cool!18:38
javispedrojust look at the topic18:38
javispedro:)18:38
mikhas=)18:38
RST38h"Instead of replacing the St. Louis Zoo's deceased polar bears with live ones, zoo officials put robots up in their place."18:38
sp3000as long as they support mauling, s'ok18:39
RST38hsp3000: the article says not YET.18:39
sp3000awww. feature regression.18:39
javispedrois it 2020 already? the world went mad and I didn't notice because I've gone mad already?18:40
RST38hWell, maybe the eyes light up, just like in the movies....18:40
javispedroand they shoot lasers18:40
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RST38hjavis: Satan got hired by The Onion, and he is working on their news.18:40
sp3000that's still just a workaround18:41
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RST38hjavis: No other news outlet hired him, all said he was too hmm... different18:41
SpeedEvilRST38h: pictures - http://www.theoland.com/media/bear_sculptures/GM_Bears/Squid_500sq.jpg18:42
RST38hSpeedEvil: Oh! An idol!18:42
* lardman|home wonders where the other XChat client is located18:42
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lardmanah, here it is18:42
lbtSpeedEvil: send it to Bruce Schneier18:43
RST38hSpeedEvil: http://community.livejournal.com/detskiy_dvor/ (all commentaries are in Russian, but you really do not need 'em)18:44
javispedroblackra1n, pwnage, redsn0w, ultrasn0w -- are they hacking a phone or a night club?18:44
thuxseems that iphone only got 256mb ram, ain't n900 have more?18:44
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Stskeeps256mb ram, 768mb swap18:44
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Flandryyou got to be kidding. Satan has been on Fox news for years18:44
RST38hFlandry: too dull for the Satan. I suspect that was Jesus.18:45
FlandryI'd like to think He'd do a better job, but maybe that's just me :P18:45
RST38hSpeedEvil: Actually, the best-of is here: http://community.livejournal.com/practical_chaos/923.html (it will save you some browsing)18:45
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RST38hFlandry: The key point is that whatever news Satan puts into print, come into reality. That is why Him working for The Onion is so scary =)18:46
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thuxarm cortex a8 600mhz not bad what n900 got?18:46
javispedrosame.18:46
Flandryah, i saw that Twilgiht Zone episode too18:46
suihkulokki   /last http18:47
suihkulokkigarr18:47
javispedroI can't watch ONN videos!18:48
javispedrolevel 1 emergency -- time to mkfs /18:48
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RST38hFlandry: I think it was based either one someone's short story *or* on a retro urban legend18:49
SpeedEvilhttp://www.theonion.com/content/video/anonymous_philanthropist_donates18:49
RST38hyeeek18:50
javispedroSpeedEvil: that's exactly the video I'm trying to watch!!18:50
javispedroand I can't! I can't!18:50
javispedrodamn Flash.18:50
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* javispedro launches all the browsers on his system18:50
Flandrysure, but Twilght Zone is the cannonical source, even if retrospectively18:51
RST38hyea, guess so18:51
* Flandry thinks it should be, anyway18:51
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lardmanhmm, is Garage working for you chaps?19:10
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RST38hworked a few hours ago19:11
lardmanworked 10min ago, but not now19:11
RST38hpupnik spoiled all the fun =(19:11
RST38htoo serious19:11
lardmanah, just veeeerrrryyyy slow19:12
RST38hBug #5300 got into internal bugzilla. Sweet19:13
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5300 Support sending files via Bluetooth in file manager19:13
javispedroRST38h: actually, the fun is starting for me -- since the a320 is a console I tried.19:15
javispedroit was on par with N810 -- and he's saying it's full speed.19:15
RST38hjavis: he does not understand what he is saying19:16
RST38hnot worth arguing there, although trolling poor lemming all the way to the cliff may be fun19:16
lardmanwhat's the a320?19:17
lardmanlarge aircraft to me19:17
javispedroarm11, 500ish Mhz iirc.19:17
lardmanpda?19:17
javispedroyeah19:17
javispedroconsole19:17
javispedrowell I was wrong19:18
lardmanDingoo19:18
javispedronot arm1119:18
RST38hA Chinese console19:18
javispedrobut MIPS19:18
RST38hAnything with MIPS will suck by definition19:18
lardmansmall screen too19:18
RST38h(I can explain why, but it is somewhat involved)19:18
lardmango on :)19:18
RST38hWell, MIPS instruction set has been made by academics, so even although it is RISC, it is incredibly inefficient19:19
RST38hFor example, VGBA binary size hits 1MB on MIPS19:19
lardmanthey made the inefficient microcode?19:19
RST38hAlso, the stack frames are huge19:20
lardmanor poor design/instruction choice?19:20
RST38hNo, they designed inefficient instruction set19:20
lardmanah ok19:20
RST38hThat does not well express what people want to do19:20
RST38hIt is a freaking university project, not a production design19:20
lardman:)19:21
RST38hSo, on expensive workstations, these problems are offset by huge caches and fast memory19:21
RST38hBut once you cut down the caches and use normal consumer grade 133MHz SDRAM (or mDDR), the performance goes straight to hell19:22
lardmanso why was it adopted then?19:22
RST38hThe design is free, it is cheap to produce, so lots of Chinese make and use it19:22
RST38hAnd for low performance uses, it works well enough. I have one of those Chinese systems on my desk19:23
lardmanok19:23
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RST38hICNexus, MIPS chip, runs Linux, starts X11/XFCE on its little 640x460 screen19:23
RST38hRuns fine, has even gone Xine compiled for it, but waaaaay slow19:23
RST38hs/gone/got19:23
RST38hWhen comparing it to ARM instruction set, you can clearly see that the designers were fixing shortcomings of the MIPS design, and largely succeeded19:24
javispedrofrom what I read it doesn't run linux but a custom kernel, I though otherwise.19:24
javispedrowhich may explain why it reached high performance with such low specs19:25
RST38hjavis: Doesn't matter, at the end it runs binary code, and does it slowly19:25
lardmanhmm, how are these supposed to work?: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/hildon/hildon-Additions-to-GTK+.html#HildonPortraitFlags19:25
javispedroconny discovered it.19:25
javispedroyou may want to search for his -developers post19:26
lardmanok19:26
RST38hlardman: SUPPORT will tell wm that your window can be rotated19:26
javispedroiirc he made a wiki entry, but I don't remember where.19:26
RST38hREQUEST will tell wm that you do not suppor tlandscape at all19:26
lardmanyeah, but from the wording it looks like I can only choose one or the other, not both19:26
qwerty12http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets#Portrait_Mode19:26
RST38hwhy choose both?19:26
javispedroqwerty12++ :)19:26
lardmanwell because my app will be able to support both19:26
RST38hsemantically, choosing both makes no sense19:27
RST38hlardman: Both morientations? that is SUPPORT19:27
javispedro"That means that to get a rotated desktop all visible windows must have the HILDON_PORTRAIT_MODE_SUPPORT flag set to 1 and at least one of them must have the HILDON_PORTRAIT_MODE_REQUEST flag set to true."19:27
lardmanRST38h: that's what I thought, but the wording indicates that that will stick it there19:28
lardmanah well, I'll just set it and see what happens19:28
lardmanqwerty12: thanks for the link btw :)19:28
RST38hjavis: sounds weird19:29
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javispedrothe weird thing is that the wm doesn't "request" portrait when rotated19:29
javispedroother than that, it's mostly what you explained.19:29
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lardmanso this should work? hildon_gtk_window_set_portrait_flags(*window, HILDON_PORTRAIT_MODE_SUPPORT);19:29
javispedroit's up to individual apps to request portrait when required.19:29
lardmanignore the odd *window stuff19:30
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javispedrothe autorotating stuff should be a candidate for libhildonextras19:30
RST38hIt is all messed up :(19:31
* RST38h would expect WM simply resize his windows on rotation19:32
javispedroheh I was right it the a320 used linux19:32
javispedrothe guy says the linux one goes faster than the custom kernel one.19:32
RST38hjavis: Ah, forget him, go for the sharper guy =)19:32
RST38hThat one is funnier19:33
javispedroI tried the linux one or so the owner said me.19:33
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RST38hdoes it play GBA games at full speed based on sw emulation alone then? :)19:34
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javispedroit plays them "like ZSNES".19:34
javispedro..19:34
SpeedEvilI thought it just transported large numbers of people over large distances quite fast.19:34
luke-jrmy GameBoy Advance plays GBA games at full speed :)19:34
* luke-jr runs19:34
javispedromy guess is that the dingoo's custom kernel one is snes9x while the "linux" one is drpocketsnes (as usual).19:35
javispedroso no surprises.19:35
lardmanactually iirc the a320 does use Linux19:35
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lardmanas I've seen in the inflight entertainment system crash19:36
lardman;)19:36
javispedropost that to tmo just to confuse them ;)19:36
lardmanlol yeah19:36
javispedrowell I can't outcompete "it feels like ZSNES" so end of discussion.19:37
RST38hlardman: I have seen it start X1119:39
RST38hlardman: with the X cursor and all19:40
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lardmanyeah, sounds about right19:40
lardmanbbiab19:40
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javispedroRST38h: oh, cmon. I can think of one workload where Java is faster than C.19:53
crashanddiejavispedro, development?19:53
javispedrobah, that's subjective.19:53
crashanddiejavispedro, segfaults?19:53
javispedronot really.19:54
javispedrobut19:54
javispedrothe equivalent of19:54
javispedroconst int max = A_LOT; for (int i = 0; i < max; i++) { void * m = malloc(60); } should be faster on Java.19:54
javispedro;)19:54
crashanddiethat is, until you reach the VM heap maximum19:55
crashanddieat which point if would just fail19:55
crashanddieit would**19:55
javispedrowell the C version would fail then too.19:55
jaskaiirc you cant even change the heap maximum runtime :|19:55
crashanddieexcepted C doesn't have a heap ;)19:55
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crashanddiejaska, you can, actually19:55
javispedrothe c library does.19:55
crashanddiejavispedro, it does?19:56
javispedromalloc / free19:56
javispedrothat's a heap.19:56
javispedronot garbage collected of course, but a heap.19:56
jaskacrashanddie: o.O, last time i looked i didnt figure out how to19:56
jaskathen again im no java guy19:56
crashanddiejavispedro, what I meant was: the Java VM has a pre-allocated chunk of memory19:58
crashanddiejavispedro, so memory assignment is just an internal process, whereas C needs to "ask" it from the OS19:58
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javispedrowell If that's the case it is a limitation of the VM, not anything perse.19:59
javispedromaybe because changing heap size at runtime on a generational gc is hard.19:59
javispedros/hard/complex19:59
javispedrobut shouldn't...19:59
javispedrohum..20:00
javispedrocometothinkofit20:00
javispedrojava can change the heap size at runtime!20:00
javispedroI mean, the sun JVM does. There's a min and max settings.20:00
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RST38hjavis: ohmygodrunforthehills20:02
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* RST38h remembers how KVM creates a new heap in each function20:02
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RST38hAnd destroys it at exit, apparently as the last ditch attempt to control memory leaks20:03
* lcukn900 waves from kebab shop20:03
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RST38hmoo lcuk20:03
RST38hhappy kebab time =)20:03
javispedrowell, my own stupid VM's "new" func is implemented as "void *p = stackP; stackP += request; return p" ;)20:04
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javispedroer.. stackP is a stupid name here but you get the idea20:04
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javispedroand malloc performance is everything! I will rule the world!20:05
* javispedro hides20:05
RST38hjavis: you remember that test that showed Java being faster than C++?20:07
Proteouspics or it didn't happen...20:07
javispedroRST38h: which one?20:07
RST38hby as much as 30%20:07
Proteousmaybe 30% or more20:08
javispedrocause there's like a hundred of them... (there's quite a lot of academics that want to put java back on supercomputing centers...)20:08
RST38hjavis: Well, they basically took a few web-bound applications, programmed them in Java and C++ (similar code) and showed how Java was 30% faster20:08
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javispedro"web-bound"?20:08
javispedroheh.20:08
RST38hjavis: Closer examination revealed that these apps did a lot of memory allocations (strings! web is all about strings)20:08
javispedrothere's also an interesting point where the sun jvm performs well20:09
RST38hjavis: And GCC memory allocator just hasn't been tuned well enough. Java memory allocator obviously was20:09
lcukn900rst happens everywhere20:09
javispedroruntime inlining -- don't understimate it specially when gcc doesn't use intercompilation unit optimizations20:09
RST38hlcuk: Not everywhere can you get rights to claim that "java is faster than c++" though :)20:10
RST38hjavis: does nothing to those new's and delete's20:10
RST38hjavis: Using memory pools does help though, but it is usually application-specific approach20:10
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RST38hjavis: But forget all that, in GCC they all end up with malloc()s20:11
RST38hOr did, anyway20:11
javispedroyeah, but sometimes makes the jvm perform much better in smaller benchmarks -- until you add -fwhole-program to the C program flags20:11
Flandryman i love this channel20:11
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javispedroFlandry: it IS lovely :)20:12
RST38hjavis: Dunno, frankly I have not seen that happen ever.20:12
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RST38hjavis: I did see Java applet crash Linux once though =)20:12
ProteousI have never not seen it not happen sometimes20:12
javispedroheh20:13
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RST38hFour more votes needed for Speccy20:15
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kkitohello20:16
javispedroRST38h: i've seen it happen specially in non-serious benchmarks. Cause every C++ serious benchmarks doesn't abuse virtual functions where performance is required etc.20:16
kkitoi am programming a videogame for n90020:16
RST38hjavis: virtual functions impact is somewhat overrated :)20:16
kkitoi have problems capturing the X event keys20:16
kkitoi am able to capture mouse press, mouse motion, but no even keyboard key press20:16
kkitodo you know why?20:17
javispedrowhat toolkit are you using, kkito?20:17
javispedrogtk+, qt, sdl, or bare x11?20:17
kkitojavispedro, i am using Xlib20:17
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javispedrointeresting. can you see if your keypresses go to a background app?20:17
RST38hjavis: STL is probably worst offender performance wise, because it implicitely uses dynamic memory allocation20:17
adeusshould it matter?20:18
RST38hjavis: Then exception handling20:18
adeusif you're monitoring the xevent loop20:18
kkitojavispedro, yes, the contact list20:18
javispedroI mean, if while your application is topmost keypresses go to a background window20:18
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javispedrothat means your app is not requesting the input focus, which the fremantle wm seems to care about.20:18
qwerty12kkito: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/55127?page=last20:18
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Flandryah yes, it's time for my daily RFT (request for testers): http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/uqm/0.6.7-0maemo/20:18
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javispedrohttps://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1526&action=view20:19
javispedroInput focus, as I though :)20:19
Flandryhmm are they really sticking to the demand that all apps have a bugchecker id20:19
kkitojavispedro, when i press th "a" key (for example), then the contact list window open ups20:20
Flandrylast discussion i saw of that, it was a discouraged encouragement20:20
qwerty12kkito: Again, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/55127?page=last20:20
javispedrokkito: yeah, that's the input focus problem. look at qwerty12's link and https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1526&action=view20:20
* qwerty12 can't believe they still haven't applied that patch...20:21
kkitook, i am goint to take look, thx to all!20:21
qwerty12Been a while since I filed it20:21
javispedroit should be in upstream doesn't it?20:22
* qwerty12 has no idea about xev's upstream =)20:23
javispedroi guess xorg20:23
qwerty12xev on the N900 gave me problems so, naturally, I just uploaded that patch to Maemo's bugtracker20:24
javispedroyes yes, that's good enough.20:24
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kkitojavispedro, do you know the bug number of the last patch?20:25
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qwerty12_N810bug 598720:25
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5987 xev does not catch keypresses on N90020:25
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tigerti think on Home, theres something that grabs kbd events to do the quick contact search / phonecall popup20:41
ProteousI caught a keypress once, just about broke my net.20:41
tigertmaybe that interferes20:41
tigertmaybe theres a way to make it work, I'd ask on the mailing list -dunno if this has been discussed before20:42
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qwerty12_N810RST38h: I lack the motivation, and - since it uses libhildonfm2 - I can't see how it would be any better :)20:55
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RST38hqwerty: ah =)20:56
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JaffaEv'ning21:36
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pupniknes emu runs 200+ fps internally21:38
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RST38hmoo pupnik21:40
zerojaywhich one?21:42
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RST38h"Has Sci-Fi Run Out of Steam?" (C)Slashdot21:51
Flandryhmm21:51
RST38h(no, idiots, you are just growing out of your favorite sysadmin scifi genres)21:51
`0660_:)21:52
Flandryha21:52
Flandrywell i think the problem is that the achievable has been narrowed leaving only the unachievable21:53
Flandrylook at Poul Anderson's later work21:53
RST38hYou are missing the point ;)21:53
Flandryit was all more or less hard science fiction, and always came to the conclusion that human space travel is a doomed endeavor21:54
Flandryso the ability of sci fi to motivate and inspire has been reduced by our achievement of the majority of the inspiring bits21:54
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RST38hLike any other literature, good scifi is about people, not about technology or science21:54
Flandrythat's neither here nor there by the criterion of the article21:55
RST38hSo, if you concetrate solely on technology (and all these slashdotters appear to be cyberpunk fans) then you sooner or later run out of steam21:55
FlandryBoat of a Million Years is a great example of this21:56
RST38hHaven't read it, but there are multiple good examples21:56
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RST38hThey are just more complex than another cyberpunk book about the "cyberspace"21:56
Flandryit doesn't concentrate on technology, but on the effect that advancement has on humankind21:57
RST38hWell, stuff by Dan Simmons is all like that21:57
javispedroif I read another book where cyberspace is the premise i'm going to puke21:57
Flandrythe human spirit as it were21:57
RST38hSome of it is seriously hallucinogenic21:57
Flandryi never got into those actually21:57
Flandryhaven't even read snow crash21:57
RST38hTry them21:57
Flandrymeh21:57
* RST38h also have not read Snow Crash. Tried but was turned off21:57
crashanddiegod Assassin's Creed II is a good game21:58
RST38hChina Mieville also writes decent stuff, not sure what drugs he is on though21:58
lardman|afkcrashanddie: really?21:58
crashanddielardman|afk, yeah, I love it21:58
lardman|afkcrashanddie: last one was rather repetitive21:58
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crashanddielardman|afk, got it yesterday evening, played 12 hours straight21:58
lardmanbloody hell21:59
Flandryi like sci fi as an ensign of the human spirit, not an exploration of alternative realities/lifestyles21:59
* microlith ponders an on-device answering machine for the N90021:59
crashanddielardman, they added a monetary system which really changes the whole game21:59
lardmanI bought CoD Modern Warfare 2 the other day21:59
FlandryHeinlein walked the line usually21:59
lardmannice game21:59
crashanddielardman, yeah, got that too21:59
crashanddielardman, solo is too short though21:59
crashanddielardman, PS3 or xbox?21:59
lardmanPC21:59
crashanddiedamn22:00
lardmanI need an nVidia 260 or higher for work, so should make the graphics even better :)22:00
crashanddielardman, so basically, in AC2, there's one city that you can invest in, so that for example, you upgrade the bank, a few stores and build a brothel, and suddenly the whole city changes, everything looks a lot nicer22:00
Flandryheheh the brothel really spruces things up eh?22:01
crashanddielardman, after that, it brings you a steady income, and now that I've upgraded everything in the city, it basically pays for all my skills upgrades22:01
lardmanoh right, you can invest money?22:01
lardmanwhat about game play though?22:01
lardmanI didn't much like the fighting in the last one, plus the endless repetition of the missions was boring22:01
* Chani worries22:01
crashanddiebecause when you steal from people, it makes you "known" from the guards, and there's posters of you and stuff22:01
crashanddielardman, well, fighting is pretty much the same, even though there's a lot of variation in the actions you can do22:02
Chaniso I woke up this morning because my n900 made a funny noise. it's plugged into my laptop but still had the orange charging light. it wasn't responding.22:02
crashanddiethat being said, because you've got that much more items at your disposition, you don't actually have to fight22:02
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crashanddiejust shoot a smoke bomb and run away, dive into the water and swim under water to escape, hire a militia on the fly to stop the guards, etc22:02
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crashanddieyou can also hire some thiefs or hos to distract the guards while you slip through undetected22:03
ChaniI held down the power button until it turned off... then I tried to turn it back on... I get five dots bouncing back and forth for a coule of seconds, hten the screen goes blank but there's still a blue glow from hte corner light, hten nothing22:03
ChaniI can see a faint nokia logo on hte screen...22:04
crashanddieChani, pull the usb cable22:04
crashanddieChani, pull the battery22:04
CoreFusion-Chani: take the battery off for a while22:04
Chaniaw crud, it's so hard to get at the battery...22:04
RST38hFlandry : can't say much of human spirit22:05
crashanddieno it's not22:05
mikhasChani, use a credit card22:05
crashanddieChani, this is a N900, not an iPhone, getting the battery out isn't hard, in comparison22:05
* Chani pulls it out22:05
Chanicrashanddie: oh?22:05
RST38hFlandry : but the details of the setting (i.e. the alternativeness of reality etc) are kinda arbitrary in good sci fi22:05
GeneralAntilleslardman, yeah, 1 was repetitive but the story kept me in through the end.22:05
* Chani got to play with an iphone for a minute once. it was weird.22:05
RST38hFlandry: can be a freaking fairy land with unicorns for all I care :)22:06
crashanddieGeneralAntilles & lardman: also, now you don't need to get the viewpoints, investigate or beat someone up, and then kill the guy22:06
GeneralAntilleslardman, too bad about PC. My friends and I have been reeking havoc on the 360. ;)22:06
Flandrysure22:06
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, that's nice.22:06
lardmanGeneralAntilles, crashanddie: I need to go back and continue it really22:06
RST38hok, away22:06
GeneralAntillesThe viewpoints, while cinematic, got incredibly, stupidly repetitive after a very short time.22:06
lardmanGeneralAntilles, crashanddie: It's pretty crap that these cross-platform games don't allow cross-platform multiplayer22:07
GeneralAntilleslol22:07
GeneralAntillesIt makes sense, though22:07
GeneralAntillesPC players would completely dominate the console players.22:07
crashanddieGeneralAntilles & lardman: the game doesn't care about the viewpoints really, you just don't have a map if you don't... even though you still see all the interest points relative to your missions, you just don't see what's around ya22:07
lardmanGeneralAntilles: why?22:07
crashanddielardman, because keyboard and mouse rocks the casbah?22:07
GeneralAntilleslardman, because two joysticks do not a mouse and keyboard make.22:07
lardmanindeed, so why buy a console I ask myself ;)22:08
Flandryindeed22:08
GeneralAntillesPrice, convenienc22:08
crashanddielardman, because it's a helluva lot cheaper?22:08
Flandryi never have22:08
GeneralAntillesand social stuff.22:08
lardmanis it cheaper?22:08
Flandryi need a comp anyway22:08
crashanddieI paid £250 for the PS3, with 2 games22:08
GeneralAntillesAn Xbox 360 is $200.22:08
lardmanI guess so, depends if you need a PC for work or not22:08
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Chani:/ now it just doesn't want to turn on.22:08
crashanddielardman, and that's the new one, the slim22:08
GeneralAntillesNo screwing around with drivers, network cards or running out of hard drive space.22:08
lardmanyeah fair enough22:08
GeneralAntillesJust get online and play22:08
crashanddielardman, plus i get BBC iPlayer in HD on it, bluray, and what not (and also, no cheating bastards)22:09
GeneralAntillesPlus, all of my friends have 360s.22:09
GeneralAntillesVery few of them have gaming-capable PCs.22:09
* lardman wonders when a coop Aliens vs Marines game will come out...?22:09
ChaniI get a solid yellow light if I plug in the usb22:09
GeneralAntilleslardman, Gears of War?22:09
lardmanWe used to play at work/uni22:09
lardmanno like real Aliens22:09
sp3000Chani: use a charger22:09
sp3000for a few minutes22:09
Chanisp3000: the usb charger is my only chargere22:09
crashanddieChani, leave it be for a couple of minutes22:10
lardmanthere was supposed to be a coop game coming out where you (or us, our group) could play the Marines, were rather looking forward to that22:10
GeneralAntilleslardman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens:_Colonial_Marines perhaps?22:10
Chanipoor little thing...22:10
crashanddielardman, like an evo of AvP?22:10
lardmancrashanddie: yeah22:10
lardmanGeneralAntilles: sounds about right22:10
GeneralAntillesI love coop campaign games.22:10
lardmanwe mod'ed AvP, but wasn't great for coop22:10
crashanddieAvP was awesome though22:10
crashanddie3 marines, 1 queen, 20 hours of fun22:11
GeneralAntilleslardman, have you tried Tremulous?22:11
Chaniooh! picked it up and it vibrated and the light started pulsing. :)22:11
crashanddieanyway, getting back to the game22:11
crashanddieChani, that's what she said22:11
lardmanGeneralAntilles: nope22:11
Chanihehehe22:11
GeneralAntilleslardman, do.22:11
crashanddieoh, and lardman22:11
lardmanah, I've heard of it, read about it22:12
crashanddiewhy buy a console? Because it's easier to convince the spouse that you're spending the money on something "everyone will use"22:12
lardmannow I see the screenie22:12
lardmanlol22:12
lardmanwell mine wants a wii22:12
lardmanI think22:12
GeneralAntillesOught to buy one and find out. :P22:13
* lardman thinks back to the afternoons of Multiplayer Far Cry and Doom322:13
lardmanGeneralAntilles: money doesn't grow on trees ;p22:13
GeneralAntilleslardman, oh? Sucks for you, then. :P22:13
lardmanlol22:13
* GeneralAntilles waited in line in sub-freezing weather to get a Wii.22:14
qwerty12_N810lardman: No, but they're easily softmodded, so you can - *ahem* - get back the money22:14
GeneralAntilleslol22:14
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, bad person.22:14
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lardmanthe big problem with the wii, the way I see it, is that you should just go out and play the sport you are playing on it, rather than risking your living room furntiure22:15
GeneralAntillesBut USB loading really does reduce load times.22:15
crashanddielardman, oh, and another reason to buy AC2: Leonardo Da Vincin22:15
crashanddie-n22:15
GeneralAntillesand it's much nicer not having to rifle through CD cases.22:15
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GeneralAntilleslardman, Wii Sports is only a small part of the Wii's appeal. ;)22:15
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GeneralAntillesZelda and Mario are in there, too.22:15
crashanddielardman, wii sports is fun with multiple people, it really can be super fun, for any kind of group age22:15
GeneralAntilles(Super Mario Bros Wii is absolutely amazing)22:15
crashanddie(no surprise there that they sold 50 million units)22:15
* lardman thinks of real sports being super fun, etc., etc22:15
lardman:)22:16
crashanddielardman, yeah, but how many of your mates come round for a beer or dinner and you then go, "let's go play some tennis, you brought your racket with?"22:16
lardmannot many, true22:16
crashanddieIt's not about playing the sport22:16
crashanddieit's about having fun22:16
crashanddiesame as when you play a video game where you mass murder 300 civilians, it really isn't something you'd do because you're bored on a saturday afternoon22:17
crashanddie(MW2)22:17
lardmantrue22:17
lardmanwell, probably depends on what you have available22:17
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lardmanso, wii probably the best bet for "fun" gaming, rather than serious, which I'd do on the PC anyway22:18
lardman?22:18
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, you don't mass murder anybody.22:19
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, I fired all of 50 rounds in that mission and none of them were at civilians.22:19
GeneralAntilleslardman, generally speaking.22:19
GeneralAntilleslardman, although it has its share of serious stuff, too.22:19
lardmangoing back OT for a moment, can I disable an edit/entry widget so I can select and copy from it,. but not edit it?22:19
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, talking about playing online, I mass murder everyone <-- leet playa22:19
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, ha, sure.22:19
lardmanGeneralAntilles: just thinking of the wife really, and I'll doubtless play it too :)22:19
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, jk, I destroyed those headless chicken in the airport22:19
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lardmanany sword/stick fighting games?22:20
* lardman doesn't do that enough in the real world22:20
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, by the way, everybody's a "leet playa" in their own eyes. :P22:20
GeneralAntillesJust ask qwerty12.22:20
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, Actually, I used to be pretty good at CS back in the day22:22
qwerty12_N810lardman: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/gtk/GtkEditable.html#gtk-editable-set-editable22:22
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, was in ATR, top10 FR, went to the CPL in 2002 (won't say my ranking though)22:22
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, but now, I really don't play "for da frags" anymore, I just want to enjoy myself22:23
qwerty12_N810Too much info =)22:23
lardmanqwerty12_N810: thanks, missed that22:23
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, as long as I'm maintaining a positive KDR I'm good. ;)22:25
GeneralAntillesGot some dead-weight friends to compensate for.22:26
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I'm not even pos in MW222:26
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lardmanwhat's KDR?22:26
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lardmanKills to Death ratio?22:26
GeneralAntillesYeah22:26
GeneralAntillesHovering around 1.5 here.22:26
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lardmanhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets#Portrait_Mode is confusing22:28
lardmanis the recommended method to listen for the orientation messages, or the screen size change ones?22:28
GeneralAntillesFinnglish!22:29
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qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: camelCase!22:29
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philosopherdo you guys think maemo need a beter sdk/develloping platform to attract more coders ?22:29
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GeneralAntillesphilosopher, yes.22:29
lcukyes22:29
philosopherand is there work on that from nokia ?22:29
lcukwell, not in some ways22:30
philosophermaybe a higher language than c/c++22:30
GeneralAntillesphilosopher, that's not the answer.22:30
lcukthe language isnt the problem22:30
GeneralAntillesSomething that ins't obnoxious and irritating to install and use22:30
qwerty12_N810philosopher: ATM, I think Maemo needs an app store that has not had its policies designed by an idiot22:30
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GeneralAntillesand actually supports a number of platforms.22:30
lcukthe current nice gui sdk installs cleanly now with minimum of fuss22:30
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, s/idiot/team of lawyers/22:30
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philosopheractually the sdk doesnt work for me22:31
lardmanthe issue there is that they've not bothered to change the rules isn't it?22:31
GeneralAntillesGrab the VM22:31
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: When I have to admit Apple has done it better, it makes me cry inside :)22:31
lardmanphilosopher: how so?22:31
philosopherbut what i meant is that it seems that android and iphone Os avec better developent env than maemo22:32
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, Apple often does things better.22:32
lcukbetter is subjective22:32
GeneralAntillesThe compromises you have to make for it though are often disagreeable.22:32
philosopherlardman: just hang-up every time i try using firefox22:32
lardmaninside scratchbox?22:32
lcukyou can build everything in the current sdk22:32
philosopheryes22:32
philosopherwith vmwre and ubuntu22:32
lardmanphilosopher: well that's not really what it's for22:32
philosopherlardman:  really ? i missed something then22:33
lardmanhave you cross-compiled firefox for the device?22:33
lardmanand are now trying to run it from within sb?22:33
lardmanwhich target? armel or x86?22:33
* lcuk grabs bottle of wine and offers to folks22:34
lardmanyes please!22:34
lardman:)22:34
* lcuk nods22:34
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* lcuk pours glass to the brim and necks it 22:34
philosopherarmel22:34
lardmanarmel emulation has issues22:34
philosopherbut i thought the sdk contain already a ready image of maemo ?22:34
lardmanbest to test on device really22:35
lardmannot afaiu anyway22:35
philosopherGeneralAntilles:  compromise ?22:35
lcukphilosopher, it contains a close enough version22:35
lcukwith web browser and apps22:35
lcukon your x86 machine i believe you are still best running the x86 target22:35
GeneralAntillesphilosopher, you loose freedom for a functional ecosystem.22:35
philosopherGeneralAntilles: functional ecosystem ?22:36
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lcukfunctional ecosystem?22:36
qwerty12_N810functional ecosystem?22:36
* lardman goes for more wine ;)22:38
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* Shapeshifter is standing in front of the NYC flagship store.22:38
andre__wine! good idea...22:38
Shapeshifter....on google street view22:39
lcukShapeshifter, excellent are you buying?22:39
lcukdoh!22:39
ShapeshifterxD22:39
Shapeshifterthere's a huge UPS van blocking the view.22:39
lcukn900 delivery?22:40
* qwerty12_N810 is sitting in his house, on his sofa, watching the Shit Factor, with his N810 and N900 in his hands22:40
philosopherGeneralAntilles:  ?22:40
philosopherso anyone think nokia need to adopt like mono or java as an offical languages ?22:41
Shapeshifterthere's a loot of taxis in NYC22:42
microlithphilosopher: no, very much no22:42
philosopherreally ?22:42
philosopherpurist ?22:42
qwerty12_N810philosopher: Just you?22:42
philosophernot just asking actually i am a c/c++ develloper22:43
philosopherbut most app develloper dont like c/c++22:43
lcukadopting a new language would be a massive undertaking and would require a substantial retooling whilst also making sure the underlying framework still existed: for reference look at the move to qt22:43
luke-jrphilosopher: Mono/Java suck22:44
philosopherluke-jr:  is trolling ?22:44
lardmangood lord, X-Factor is the biggest pile of bollocks I've ever had the misfortune to walk in and watch a couple of minutes of while pouring myself a glass of wine22:44
luke-jrthe real world works in C and such22:44
lcukhey luke-jr you see ms opened up the mini .net framework under apache license?22:44
luke-jrlcuk: like I care?22:44
lcukor micro/nano or whatever its called22:44
philosopherlcuk:  good point but isnt that really neccessary to get the kind of cusual developer that meamo needs ?22:45
lcukits open source tho22:45
luke-jrso?22:45
luke-jrit's still .NET :p22:45
* lardman likes C22:45
lcukphilosopher, readup on python22:45
philosopherluke-jr: you are making pointless argument...22:45
lcukcasual devs can use that, less causal ones will stick with cobol or lisp22:45
lardmannah, assembly22:45
qwerty12_N810lardman: I thought you were a MATLAB guy? :)22:46
lcukmatlab is c++ isnt it22:46
lardmanyeah for most stuff, but when I have to write something fast I turn back to old school C or FORTRAN22:46
qwerty12_N810Heh22:46
lardmanand MATLAB's pretty quick actually, C is only 2x as fast22:47
* lcuk adores C, detests the boilerplate and padding around the useful parts22:47
philosopheractually the .net compact is not opensource22:47
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lcuki never said compact22:47
lardmansounds like something with a mirror + sponge in it22:48
lardmans/sponge/poof22:48
philosopherlcuk:  was talking about mono ?22:48
philosopherso if i understand you guys think that c++/c is the languages needs22:49
lcukno, i was talking about the .net micro framework used in embedded systems (like the MS clock)   its a minimal super tight .net implementation22:49
lcukand looks supercool tbh22:49
lardmanphilosopher: no, Python or similar would be better to get people programming really22:50
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philosopherlcuk:  but pointless when your platform have an oss22:50
philosopherlardman: hummm maybe22:50
lardmanwell, something simple, and Python is reasonably so22:51
philosopheri ll give it a try never programmed in python22:51
lcukphilosopher, you rightly pointed out java/monoetc.  i like the language of .net22:51
lardmanthat's because you've had the misfortune to program for Windows recently ;)22:51
philosopherlol22:52
philosopherlardman:  have try c# and .net dev env ?22:52
lcukyou told us you enjoyed it22:52
lcukyou came in chan every night happy as larry22:52
lcuk"ohhh look i got to build a form today!"22:52
lardmanoi, stop tarnishing my good name!22:52
lardmanI did have to embrace VB (6) once again the other day though22:52
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lcuksee22:53
lcukhi javis22:53
* lcuk gets back to scratchbox anyway22:53
qwerty12_N810lcuk: You? Scratchbox?22:53
lardmanso I guess it's comparatively better ;)22:53
lcuk:) yes22:53
javispedrohi lcuk22:54
philosopherso what should i download to start mamoe dev ?22:54
froggerdoes someone can give me a hint how to get the selected text in the GtkEntry widget ?22:55
froggerdoes someone can give me a hint how to get the selected text in the GtkEntry widget ?22:55
javispedrophilosopher: the SDK22:55
lardmanphilosopher: what do you want to program?22:55
lardmanphilosopher: what sort of apps?22:55
philosopherlardman: no clue just testing how the dev env is22:55
lardmanI see22:56
lardmanwell you could do Python on-device, or anywhere else you wanted, as long as you test on device22:57
lcukphilosopher, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation22:57
lcukif you are in linux22:57
philosopherdont i need a set library for biding ?22:58
* javispedro actually likes sbox22:58
javispedrothen the only other embedded toolchain I've used is the oldie palmos one, so...22:58
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lardmanphilosopher: Python in interpreted22:58
lardmans/in/is22:58
philosopherlcuk:  that what i did , but i thought someone said that the sdk wasnt for develloping ?22:58
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lcukits a TLA, (S)oftware (D)evelopment (K)it22:59
lcukyou decide22:59
philosopherlardman: yes... that why i beileve that maemo could rely on it for heavy development22:59
lardmanit's slower than C/C++ though, and the bindings are not all present23:00
javispedroconsidering on of the complais of android is the fact everything is interpreted...23:00
javispedros/on/one23:00
javispedros/complais/complaints23:00
philosopherlcuk ok  now i am confuse ....23:00
lcukits java isnt it23:00
javispedro I was surprised when I found the android sdk contains an actual emulator23:00
javispedrobeing java I though they would just ship a x86 dalvik23:00
philosopheri said that the sdk didnt work for me and hangup anytime i  use firefox in the scratchbox23:01
* timeless_mbp sighs23:01
javispedrofirefox in the scratchbox?23:01
timeless_mbpso... are people using mxr.maemo.org yet?23:01
timeless_mbpjavispedro: fwiw, that will definitely fail soon if it doesn't yet23:01
philosopherjavispedro:  yes23:01
timeless_mbpfirefox jit requires armvSomething23:01
timeless_mbpand last i checked qemu's armv support was lame23:01
javispedrotimeless: I used it a bit a few days ago, search for some clutter or hildon-desktop related stuff iirc. worked fine.23:02
timeless_mbpjavispedro: =)23:02
timeless_mbpplease advertise it23:02
GeneralAntillesphilosopher, dear god no Java.23:02
timeless_mbpit can save people a lot of time/trouble23:02
timeless_mbpand it can certainly save me a lot of frustration23:02
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javispedroagreed, a pretty useful tool.23:03
crashanddiejavispedro, Android supports native C23:03
javispedrophilosopher: why do you want to run firefox in scratchbox? or do you mean the "Maemo Browser"?23:03
philosopherjavispedro:  yea maemo browser i meant23:03
GeneralAntillesNewegg claimed Mozilla developed the Maemo 5 browser.23:04
JaffaGeneralAntilles: You sound like RST38h23:04
javispedrocrashanddie: I know, but this shows Google cares about people using native C.23:04
lcuktimeless, how best to advertise.  we know of it and use it on random intervals as developers, and when someone is asking code related questions we can guide them there23:04
Jaffacrashanddie: Does it have direct access to any useful libraries, or do you have to go back up to Java and down again?23:04
* timeless_mbp shrugs23:04
javispedroelse why they would ship an slow as molasses emulator when a quick x86 dalvik would've done a much better job?23:05
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: wah23:05
crashanddieJaffa, nha, you actually get some useful libraries23:05
philosopherGeneralAntilles:  why not java ?23:05
Jaffacrashanddie: ah, cool.23:05
javispedroJaffa: at least you can output to fb0 without going back to Java. Sound's another story.23:05
GeneralAntillesJaffa, as official platform language, though?23:05
GeneralAntillesJaffa, support is fine, but turning the platform into Android is not a direction I want to see things go in.23:06
crashanddieJaffa, I've seen DMA, file access, and some low-level devices interaction, so I'm guessing it really depends on how well you manage to convince them to give you access really23:06
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Official; don't mind. And I can see why Nokia wants to focus on Qt (with C++) as the official (with WRT) language.23:06
JaffaGeneralAntilles: And it won't anytime soon.23:06
JaffaSomething of the same quality of PyMaemo but in Java would be nice, though.23:07
GeneralAntillesJaffa, clearly, but what I was responding to is important context here. :P23:07
lcukwrt runs javascript doesnt it *grin*23:07
crashanddieJaffa, are you going to work with C++ and Qt to have fun after coming back from work?23:07
JaffaGeneralAntilles: There's a lot of scrollback to read ;-)23:07
Jaffacrashanddie: I think I might be focussing on the Python/Qt route a bit more ;-)23:07
crashanddieguys, should I go for pizza, quarter pounder or anything else (not inspired on food)23:07
GeneralAntillesJaffa, then probably not worth continuing to discuss the subject.23:07
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I agreed with you <shrug/>23:08
Jaffacrashanddie: pizza23:08
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, pizza.23:08
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, unless you're talking about a quality burger.23:08
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, don't forget my request :P23:08
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, not really23:09
crashanddiebut pizzas are shit in the UK23:09
lcukcrashanddie, i second pizza23:09
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, what's your request?23:09
lcukagreed, but burgers are worse23:09
GeneralAntillesSucks to be you guys.23:09
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, no it doesn;t23:09
* GeneralAntilles can find both excellent pizzas and excellent burgers within 5 minutes of here.23:09
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, i'll be in aus soon, so fuck UK pizzas xD23:09
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, test my app with MAC OS :)23:10
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: He's just pissed at Florida having shit 3G23:10
lcuk3g, how old23:10
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, and moskitos23:10
lcuki have 3.5g here23:10
RST38hGeneral: how about French crepes though?23:10
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, and swamps23:10
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, and no decent clubs or city23:10
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crashanddieqwerty12_N810, and no decent university23:10
lardmancrashanddie: no more pizzas for you mate, pies + sauce23:10
andre_"i have 3.5g here" sounds like 3,5 grams of some drugs to me23:10
lcukqwerty can you have the phone G rating, and up it to 6 or 7 G ?23:11
qwerty12_N810lcuk: Precisely! They don't even have that!23:11
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: Hehe23:11
lcuklol andre_ well what i just said makes it sound worse23:11
VDVsxanyone with a PS3 and a N900 that can test something for me ? :P23:11
crashanddielardman, didn't catch the sense of that23:11
lardmanyou ever been to Australia?23:12
crashanddielardman, do you mean "I need to only eat pies + sauce to remind me of the horrendous UK eating habits, or because that's what I'll be getting foreva"23:12
lardmantho there are lots of Italian and Greek restaurants of course23:12
qwerty12_N810lcuk: Meh, I keep mine in 2G :p23:12
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, oh, right, that.23:12
lardmanwell that's all you'll be getting23:12
lardman:)23:12
crashanddieinteresting23:12
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, not a rush ;)23:12
qwerty12_N810Ha23:12
crashanddielardman, nope, never been there xD23:12
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lardmanpies + sauce are good though, staple, especially if you head down to the footie23:13
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, good question, never looked.23:13
lardmanhmm, all this talk of pies and sauce has made /me hungry23:15
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crashanddieHahaha23:15
qwerty12_N810lardman: With some wine, of course?23:15
crashanddieJust checked my bank statement23:15
crashanddieLast week I complained that some website charged too much for the use of the credit card23:15
lardmanqwerty12_N810: no, at the footie would have to be some beer23:15
crashanddiethey just refunded 20p23:16
asdmI need some help getting a usb device Elm327 to work with N770 and Carman running in host mode23:16
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: Treat yourself: Buy 20 sherbets23:16
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, a sherbet is 1p?#23:16
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: Round here, yeah :p23:17
lardmanhow old are you qwerty12_N810, sound like you're from the 50s!23:17
lardmanback in my day a sherbet was 1/2d23:17
lardmanetc23:17
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, dude, you realise that when they go through the defrosting process of a freezer, that is not the recommended way of making sherbet?23:17
javispedrohmm.. crepes...23:17
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, oh, and btw, the actual spelling is sorbet23:17
lardmanno23:17
lardmandifferent thing23:17
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: Gah, who said sweets were good for you anyway? :)23:18
crashanddieSherbet, an American term for a frozen dessert like sorbet, but containing a small amount of dairy.23:18
lardmanwhat do the Yanks know?23:18
lardmanthey call trousers pants23:18
GeneralAntillesAh, bugzilla hate.23:18
GeneralAntillesGotta love Talk.23:18
lardmanhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherbet_%28powder%2923:18
lardmanthat's the real deal, sherbet23:18
javispedrooh, the sun's java vs android's java discussion is still ongoing.23:19
crashanddielardman, oh23:19
* lardman heads for the bottle again23:19
lardman:)23:19
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GeneralAntillesandre_, I'd've slaughtered people in that thread by now.23:19
qwerty12_N810Quote (C) Internet Tough Guy23:20
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andre_GeneralAntilles, no, why? I'm patient (some people call it stubborn though)23:21
crashanddieandre_, being certain that you're right and "waiting for people to join your line of thinking" isn't patience23:22
GeneralAntillesandre_, irrational, unconstructive people irritate me.23:22
derfGeneralAntilles: You'd better stay off the internet, then.23:22
genewitchRST38h: you mentioned earlier something about lemmings leaving tmo when they got their n900s; what did you mean? is tmo t-mobile?23:23
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GeneralAntillesderf, Talk, anyway.23:23
GeneralAntillestalk.maemo.org23:23
genewitchOh23:23
asdmrfcomm -i ohci5 listen 0 123:23
asdm <- can this code tell bluetooth config files to use USB device as a bluetooth connection >?23:23
genewitchi just want an n900. i can't stand having to wait this long for something that i should have been able to get a week ago23:23
andre_crashanddie, thanks :-D23:23
GeneralAntillesandre_, bug #6272. Off to a fine start, I see.23:23
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6272 User-friendliness fail23:23
GeneralAntillesandre_, somebody didn't read the bug writing guidelines, I see.23:24
RST38hgenewitch: talk.maemo.org23:24
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andre_i'll wait until monday to triage that23:24
andre_want some cool rantings first ;-)23:24
genewitchRST38h: oh. i see. lemmings.23:24
RST38hGeneral: BTW, I found a relevant quote23:25
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ShadowJKgenewitch, where does your "should" and a week ago come from? :-)23:25
RST38hGeneral: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar-log23:25
RST38hGeneral: check it out23:25
GeneralAntillesRST38h, ahaha, that's awesome.23:26
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VDVsxandre_, that reminds me that I've something for you :P23:26
RST38hGeneral: Anyone familiar? =)23:26
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andre_VDVsx, chocolate? yum yum23:30
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Link me to this bugzilla hate thread.23:31
GeneralAntilleszerojay, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3487823:31
GeneralAntillesGo forth and destrooooy!23:31
andre_hell yeah23:32
zerojayHahaha.. I think krisse is just trolling at this point.23:32
javispedroI have to wonder how can 4 pages of posts be written in something as plain as the bugzilla bug entry form?23:33
javispedroin a single day!23:33
qwerty12_N810zerojay: lol, of course. This was the guy who thought Nokia needed to bring out Netbooks with Maemo on 'em...23:33
GeneralAntilleskrisse's a woman. ;)23:34
qwerty12_N810s/guy/lady/23:34
infobotqwerty12_N810 meant: zerojay: lol, of course. This was the lady who thought Nokia needed to bring out Netbooks with Maemo on 'em...23:34
zerojay"asks for more information than the user needs to give"? She doesn't have a clue how bug tracking works. Providing all the information possible is important because while the user may not see why some piece of info is important, the developer might.23:35
andre_feel free to comment :-P23:35
zerojayOoooh, believe me - I plan on it.23:35
GeneralAntilleslol, zerojay's gonna be the grump in my place.23:36
sp3000generally, forums can be a fine place to discuss bugs for people who can't handle bugzillas23:36
sp3000I'm sure some accommodations between them can be made but in the general case I think it's asking for magic23:37
GeneralAntillessp3000, we've had lots of people volunteer to transcribe bugs reported on the forums into useful bugs for bugzilla23:37
GeneralAntillesbut, much like the people who volunteered to do the same for the wiki, nothing ever came of it.23:37
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andre_true23:37
* Jaffa 's read tmo :-(23:37
qwerty12_N810Bad Jaffa23:38
zerojayIt's also hard to do that when the bugs mentioned on the forums are nothing but vague "it doesn't work" all the time.23:38
JaffaI even tried to limit it to a selection of threads in Community, Development and Applications.23:38
sp3000zerojay: yeah, but forums can be more convenient for the prodding23:39
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, junkie.23:40
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: Block it on your router, and donate £1 to [charity of your choosing] everytime you try to go on it23:40
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: We're going to buy Peter Kay's DVD single of his all-star animated coolness for Children in Need.23:40
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I'd closed it until your Bugzilla hate thread23:40
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, muahaha!23:43
JaffaCut me off, man!23:43
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zerojayI've barely been on talk in the last week or so and shit like that makes me feel like I haven't missed much.23:44
Jaffazerojay: I only realy went back to post http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3488823:45
Jaffamy "someone-else read tmo, so I don't have to" idea.23:45
zerojayYeah, I think I saw you say something about it on twitter.23:45
Jaffayeah23:45
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Jaffaand -community, and pmo. Spammer <= me23:46
* Jaffa offs to watch a West Wing.23:46
GeneralAntillesWhy do people want to distribute OSS through Ovi?23:49
GeneralAntillesWhat qgil seems to be suggesting is that Extras is going to take a rather severe back seat.23:49
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: With Nokia blatently promoting the Store more?23:50
GeneralAntillesEspecially sad since it DOESN'T EVEN WORK23:50
lbtGeneralAntilles: I do23:50
lbtI want to sell Shopper on ovi23:50
lbtthe plebs will love it and pay me23:51
asdmAnyone ever get N770 And CarMAn to work with USB ELM 327 ?23:51
lbtsorry, customers23:51
lbtand I am dead serious BTW23:51
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* Stskeeps should look into corporate liability insurance23:56
andre_Stskeeps, also thought about that a year ago. But I can't remember whether I signed a contract or not :)23:57
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Stskeepsandre_: were you employed or own company?23:59
Stskeeps(forgot)23:59

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