IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-11-12

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javispedrowill the N900 work with my BTH 100HX+ firmware revision 41.56E6 variant A2?00:10
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Jaffajavispedro: Yes, as long as you enable the N900's compass and remember the cross-link the reciprocating splines00:10
javispedrothat's GREAT!00:11
* javispedro proposes creating of do-not-talk.maemo.org subdomain00:11
javispedros/creating/creation00:11
VDVsxfor what ?  lol00:11
javispedronot talking about when is it released, of course!00:12
Macerwtf is a prat?00:12
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Maceris that like british for prick or asshole or something?00:12
javispedroMacer: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/prat00:12
javispedroMacer: seems so ("fool")00:13
* Stskeeps notes that n900 can take a lot of beatings.00:13
JaffaMacer: Yes, "prat" is an occasionally affectionate and not-as-offensive version of "asshole"00:14
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Jaffasee also "plonker"00:14
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Macerhaha00:17
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jaemhmm... kinetic scrolling is shiny, but when I saw that my *terminal* had kinetic scrolling, I wasn't sure whether that was awesome or disgusting :P00:19
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jaemheh00:19
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RedPenguinI know you can reflash your N810 if it messes up, but is there any methods to make your own flash image of exactly the way you have your device now?00:20
jaemRedPenguin, not easily, however, if you're cloning your install to a card, there is a "backup" option that will do much the same thing00:21
jaemit just tar's the filesystem, though00:21
RedPenguinOh I see what you mean00:21
RedPenguinWasn't sure if there was a way to using USB or possibly Network Access send everything over basically00:21
RedPenguinKinda likleg what you do with imaging a desktop basically00:22
timeless_mbpRedPenguin: you can try to use rsync00:22
RedPenguinlike not likleg00:22
timeless_mbpbut you ahve to be careful00:22
jaemRedPenguin, what I mentioned was just like ZIPping everything and putting it back on later00:22
timeless_mbps/ahve/have/00:22
infobottimeless_mbp meant: but you have to be careful00:22
* Stskeeps untars mer image onto his n900 microsd00:23
javispedrogood luck :)00:24
timeless_mbphow does voting work?00:24
timeless_mbpdo we have to promote non user/ packages?00:24
RedPenguinI will have to try some of those methods, seems nicer than nothing but a 100% factory every time00:24
timeless_mbpRedPenguin: the native backup is not too bad00:25
jaemregarding Qt for the N900, my prof preinstalled the Qt packages for me, but it appears they weren't optified (coming from extras-devel), and they filled up my device quite quickly00:25
timeless_mbpyou can add packages to add extra data for backup/restore00:25
jaemis someone going to package them properly soon?00:25
timeless_mbpand if you backup package lists00:25
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timeless_mbpyou can arrange to pull in your data00:25
timeless_mbpjaem: ouch00:25
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timeless_mbpjaem: find the maintainer and complain :)00:25
jaemtimeless_mbp, willdo00:26
jaemit's *kind of* an issue00:26
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, Eric updated the Linux for Devices story.00:30
timeless_mbpwith less lame numbers?00:30
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, apparently eWeek was responsible for the screwups since it was mostly a mirrored article.00:30
timeless_mbpdid someone contact eWeek?00:30
timeless_mbpbtw, you wanted a headsup for when i go on a bug spree?00:30
timeless_mbpheadsup00:30
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I think I have a bit of a buffer from you right now, actually.00:31
timeless_mbp...00:31
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GeneralAntillesHey forwarded my email on to eWeek.00:32
GeneralAntilles868 vs 83600:32
GeneralAntillesGuess not. ;)00:32
* GeneralAntilles will find more bugs when I get PR 1.000:33
javispedrohey, a story with screwups?00:33
javispedrome wants00:33
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, too bad, they fixed it. ;)00:34
timeless_mbp868?00:34
javispedro:(00:35
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: did you see the Wired article?00:37
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timeless_mbpand the ibtimes n900 v. htc/droid00:39
wazdcya all00:40
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woglindejo pupnik00:43
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, newer than the old one?00:47
pupnikwhere's Khertan00:47
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timeless_mbpdunno00:47
timeless_mbpi don't read articles often00:47
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/10/hands-on-with-nokias-n900/ ?00:53
timeless_mbpsomething else i think00:53
timeless_mbpoh, no00:53
timeless_mbpyeah, something else?00:53
timeless_mbpnot sure00:53
timeless_mbpmy memory sucks :)00:53
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GeneralAntillesApparently.00:53
javispedroyeah, that one's old00:54
* timeless_mbp ponders00:54
timeless_mbpthis is fun00:54
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timeless_mbpwe're fighting about who should do work00:54
timeless_mbpthe browser team or the flash team00:54
woglindeflash00:55
javispedroby flash team you mean the adobe one? they actually _work_?00:55
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javispedro;)00:55
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woglindehm this trolltech javascript statemachine is somehow cool00:56
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timeless_mbpno, we have our own flash team00:56
SpeedEvilSome insane stuff has been done in JS.00:56
SpeedEvilhttp://matt.west.co.tt/spectrum/jsspeccy/00:56
greenflytimeless_mbp: quick browser question: currently if "mouse mode" is enabled and a page refreshes, mouse mode gets disabled. just wondering whether that was a design decision00:57
timeless_mbpdunno00:57
timeless_mbpprobably an impl detail00:57
timeless_mbpthat's unlikely to be something that was actively specified by the ui designer00:57
greenflyahh ok, thx00:57
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timeless_mbpoh00:59
timeless_mbpoffhand, the reason is probably because if you click a link01:00
timeless_mbpand the link takes you to a *different* page01:00
timeless_mbpyou probably don't want to retain mouse mode01:00
timeless_mbpthe browser ui probably doesn't understand much about the distinction between the same page/domain and a different page/domain/site01:00
greenflyahh, that could be01:01
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timeless_mbpso01:01
timeless_mbpbefore you file01:01
timeless_mbpsee if you can find a decent definition/algorithm to distinguish between those cases01:01
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greenflyokay sure01:02
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timeless_mbpsorry, thinking is a painful task.. and not immediate :)01:04
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pupnikn900 should get a quick-tap audio recording app01:13
pupnikfor emergencies01:13
edgar21like the media player widget? only with a record button instead of play button01:14
javispedrothe camera button could be a bit more intelligent01:14
javispedromaybe holding it with the camera lens closed could start recording01:14
SpeedEvilOr just opening the shutter records audio01:14
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pupniknot sure - recently a Ron Paul aide was illegally arrested by Transportation Security Authorities and recorded the abuse with his iphone.  The resulting scandal changed airport security guidelines.01:14
* SpeedEvil misread that as 'Rue Pail'01:15
SpeedEvilpaul01:15
pupnikAre you stupid or evil?01:15
PortaLuRu Paul?01:15
SpeedEvilnever heard of Ron Paul01:15
pupnikThe point being, the utility of recording government criminals.01:16
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PortaLuwho said ron?01:17
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javispedrothe first 6 tmo users sorted by username: !! bubblers, !! glassbongs, !! glasspipes, !! headshop, !! marijuanaseeds, !! medicalmarijuana01:17
javispedroI think that speaks about the rest...01:17
* Stskeeps ponders how to temporarily disable the cover check in kernel01:18
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pupnikwhat does cover check influence?  can i flash with cover off Stskeeps ?01:19
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Stskeepsit influences access to ext sd01:19
pupnikk01:19
javispedroah, the battery cover?01:19
javispedroyes, of course :P01:19
VDVsxoh, androidandme.com at planet.maemo very suitable feed, lol01:19
javispedrolol :)01:21
* javispedro likes "maemo.org Applications" better than extras01:21
javispedrohttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=373004#post37300401:21
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VDVsx+101:24
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GAN900I'm fighting it01:27
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GAN9004 years of inertia behind 'Extras'01:28
GAN900and we certainly aren't changing the name everywhere else.01:28
SpeedEvilInertia that nobody cares about01:28
timeless_mbphrm01:28
timeless_mbpso http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/20091105/smartphone-wars-nokia-n900-versus-htc-hd2-versus-motorola-droid-one.htm01:28
timeless_mbpsays there's an IR port01:29
Stskeepsthere is01:29
javispedromaemo.org Extras & Applications01:29
javispedro:)01:29
timeless_mbphas anyone ever actually disassembled it01:29
timeless_mbpand seen if the IR port does anything?01:29
GAN900timeless_mbp, can you go find the person that made this stupid decision and hit them?01:29
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: irrecco video on youtube01:29
GAN900Applications is a misnomer anyway.01:29
timeless_mbpGAN900: i don't have the energy for that01:29
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: On recipt of two n900s, I will completely strip one, and perform a component level breakdown on it.01:29
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GAN900As lots of the stuff in Extras isn't anything of the sort.01:30
javispedroGAN900: Exactly!01:30
javispedrothat's why I was going to say01:30
javispedrothat I'd like to get the "Extras" moniker back to a less QA'd repo01:30
SpeedEvilApplications should be stuff like openstreetmap editors, photo manupulation software, ...01:30
SpeedEvilextras - better brightness applets, moocow, ...01:31
GAN900Unilateral discussion-free bullshit seems to be what Maemo's about these days.01:31
Lorthirkgood night people01:31
javispedroheh01:31
SpeedEvil:/01:31
SpeedEvilnight01:31
javispedronite01:31
* GAN900 is going to work himself into a frothing rage in a minute.01:32
javispedro"Increases Physical damage and attack speed by 50%." interesting.01:32
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* timeless_mbp frowns01:34
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timeless_mbpcan someone help me find a contact for ibtimes.co.uk?01:34
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zerojayGAN900: No kidding.01:39
GeneralAntillesMaybe I'd feel better if I hit myself in the head with a ball-peen hammer.01:40
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Stskeepsextras doesnt translate well to danish01:40
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GeneralAntillesGood for Danish.01:41
zerojayWhat the...01:41
javispedroand at least here, people would look at something named "an extra" with disdain -- like if it were some merchandising.01:41
zerojaywhy are they changing it to applications? Makes zero sense.01:41
GeneralAntilleszerojay, because Nokia, apparently, loves discussion-free unilateral decisions.01:41
zerojayAnd everyone searching is going to be asking "where's this maemo extras?"01:41
Stskeepsi18n?01:42
javispedrozerojay: that's happening already.01:42
zerojayjavispedro: I can imagine.01:42
zerojayargh.01:43
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: internationalization01:43
javispedrowhen are we going to delete all wiki articles talking about R&D mode? talking about the app mgr allowing installation of .debs? talking about the rotation support kernel patch?01:43
javispedroetc. etc. etc.01:43
kurtangah, this sux http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=372947&postcount=38301:44
kurtanwho can i kill to get my n900 ?01:44
kurtanthere has to be someone01:44
GeneralAntilleshttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3307#c1401:44
povbotBug 3307: "maemo Extras" in Application manager should be "Extras"01:44
kurtan:<01:44
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i know :P how would you translate Extras to some of the langs you know?01:44
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: oh, i'm sure i translate it :)01:44
timeless_mbpdon't worry01:44
timeless_mbpthey're probably following process01:45
timeless_mbpalthough i don't really want to look01:45
VDVsxStskeeps, Portuguese: Extras01:45
VDVsx:P01:45
javispedro^^ +101:45
timeless_mbpactually01:45
timeless_mbpno.01:45
timeless_mbpbecause the repo names are hard coded01:45
GeneralAntillesDon't translate it.01:45
timeless_mbpe.g. the stupid one that had 'Foopy Catalogue'01:45
GeneralAntillesIt's a brand.01:45
timeless_mbpwhich looked wrong for US English01:45
timeless_mbpor 'Barpy Catalog'01:45
timeless_mbpwhich looked wrong for UK English01:45
timeless_mbpi'll write a package which fixes it :)01:46
timeless_mbpand we can make most people depend on my package :)01:46
javispedrowell then, post the name change to the mailing list and let the flame fests start! /me goes grab some popcorn01:46
timeless_mbpactually01:46
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timeless_mbpwe noted at dinner that we should probably hack gconf to store all prefs in ~ instead of /01:47
* GeneralAntilles isn't going to answer any questions about the "Applications" catalog.01:47
timeless_mbpto protect against flashing behavior01:47
GeneralAntillesI guess we have made some progress01:47
javispedroGeneralAntilles: if it comes enabled...01:47
timeless_mbpanyway01:47
timeless_mbplemme figure out the other stuff first01:47
GeneralAntillesAt least Nokia is informing us of their unilateral decisions before they deploy them01:48
timeless_mbplike ... can someone help me build a package01:48
GeneralAntillesAlthough sometimes they like to just inform us that they've made them01:48
GeneralAntillesnot give away any of the actual content01:48
* GeneralAntilles glares at konttori.01:48
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: do you guys object to me pushing a non-free package to extras? :)01:48
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, why's it non-free?01:48
GeneralAntillesI object to laziness-induced non-free01:48
timeless_mbpbecause i'm lazy01:48
* GeneralAntilles glares at konttori some more.01:49
timeless_mbpok ok01:49
timeless_mbpso i guess i need to write some more magic01:49
* timeless_mbp sighs01:49
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GeneralAntillesEven if I object, though, you're free to do it anyway. ;)01:50
* timeless_mbp frowns01:50
timeless_mbpright, so um01:50
GeneralAntillesThe guy holding the keys is on vacation for the next few weeks.01:50
timeless_mbphow should i do this?01:50
GeneralAntillesSo there's nobody to punish you. ;)01:50
timeless_mbp??01:50
timeless_mbpx-fade?01:50
GeneralAntillesYeah01:50
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: and I think this is one of those times that quim is just reporting an already made decision.01:51
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I'm goddamn tired of it.01:51
GeneralAntillesIf they need to discuss something to come to a decision, do it out here.01:51
javispedrobut don't worry, it may be changed again with the second maint. release!01:51
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javispedroto "Extras & Applications" >:)01:52
GeneralAntillesActually, I've got one more point to pull out.01:52
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* javispedro notes voting for a bug is the best way to add oneself to the CC list without noise01:53
GeneralAntillesNokia can't justifiably rename a community-owned repository.01:53
javispedrothat's a good point indeed, the repo is owned by maemo.org after all.01:54
* Stskeeps still only believes in the unholy trinity of community os, shared platform, commercial os. governance is way too hard in community governing a commercial project.01:54
GeneralAntillesIf, however, they'd like to come out and discuss a name change with us, I'd welcome that.01:54
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* javispedro doesn't believe at all in the bazaar model, but that's another story01:55
timeless_mbpjavispedro: that's basically why voting was invented01:55
lbtshhhh... too noisy in this cathedral01:55
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* timeless_mbp watches die hard while a shell script reorganizes the world01:56
Stskeepsi believe in it if it there is getting money traded in the bazaar01:56
javispedro:)01:56
* GeneralAntilles sighs.01:59
GeneralAntillesMy neighbors like to smoke pot in their bathroom01:59
GeneralAntilleswhich of course means my bathroom smells overwhelmingly of pot01:59
GeneralAntillesSo I get a headache every time I use the bathroom. . . .01:59
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javispedrothat sounds funny, but sucks.02:02
javispedroi would sue them without hesitation.02:02
PortaLuGeneralAntilles: attach a tube to the gas, poke it through their window02:03
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GAN900timeless_mbp, by the way, any blogs in the pipeline?02:08
GAN900I haven't seen one in months.02:08
timeless_mbpGAN900: have you seen my monkey blogs?02:09
timeless_mbpi haven't published them02:09
timeless_mbpi should02:09
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, no.02:14
timeless_mbpmoneksy start at 15902:15
timeless_mbpand there are 302:15
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wiretappedGeneralAntilles: have you talked to your neighbors about this?02:26
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, thing I should buy them some Glade? ;) "Hey, these are pretty good for when you're smoking pot in the bathroom."02:27
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wiretappedthat would be funny02:30
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wiretappedbut just mentioning that (a) you can smell it and (b) are bothered by smelling it02:30
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wiretappedwould probably solve the problem02:30
GeneralAntillesAll of those stairs, though. . . . :P02:31
wiretappedheh02:31
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: did you read them?02:33
* timeless_mbp kicks virtualbox's networking stack02:33
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, yes, funny.02:34
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timeless_mbpi should write one or two on api design and impl02:34
timeless_mbpsomething to explain how not to pick apis to use in products02:34
timeless_mbpum02:35
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timeless_mbpmy Mer has a dns entry from comcast.net02:35
* timeless_mbp wonders how it managed that02:35
timeless_mbphsdl.ca.comcast.net02:35
GeneralAntillesBlame johnx?02:36
timeless_mbps/l/1/02:36
infobottimeless_mbp meant: hsd1.ca.comcast.net02:36
timeless_mbpwhy?02:36
GeneralAntillesHe's on Comcast02:36
GeneralAntillesHe works on Mer.02:36
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: in where?02:36
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timeless_mbp /etc/resolv.conf02:36
timeless_mbpprobably means my last dns was from my visit to CA last week02:37
Stskeepsyeah02:37
Stskeepsbridged02:37
timeless_mbptoo bad i don't really want taht02:37
timeless_mbps/taht/that/02:37
infobottimeless_mbp meant: too bad i don't really want that02:37
timeless_mbphow do i kick it?02:37
timeless_mbpi rebooted and down/up'd the network on both sides..02:37
Stskeepsreconnect with networkmanager or dhclient eth002:38
VDVsxjavispedro, ping02:40
javispedroVDVsx: pong02:40
VDVsxjavispedro, there's a bank holiday weekend in spain ?02:40
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VDVsxjavispedro, or something similar happening in the same weekend as the maemo-BCN event02:42
javispedroVDVsx: Nothing that I know off...02:42
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VDVsxjavispedro, I'm asking because of this tweet: https://twitter.com/_kriksu/status/561423817002:43
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javispedroVDVsx: well, dec 6th & 8th are indeed national holidays, but I think Quim knew that and is the reason for the "long weekend" motto...02:44
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javispedrostupid me learns that bank holiday is exactly what I mean with "national holiday"02:48
VDVsxjavispedro, yeah, I learned that too :P02:50
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GeneralAntilleslol02:53
pupnikvala is pretty cool02:54
javispedroVDVsx: I guess certain people may have "some other plans" -- hopefully Citilab itself doesn't, which should be qgil's main priority if he didn't know :P02:55
javispedropupnik: agreed, shows promise.02:56
VDVsxjavispedro, yup02:57
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pupnikis there a youtube fmÃt that works with n8x0 mplayer?  i tried &fmt=6 but that yields video at 1/2 speed, with normal speed audio03:11
pupnikwas hoping to find a youtube fmt= that works well03:12
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pupnikand curse them for such a heavy video format03:12
Stskeepsi will be interviewed at http://www.tllts.org/ in about 8 minutes if anyone wants to listen in03:21
Stskeepsabout the Mer project03:22
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zerojaytits.org?03:30
zerojayoh.03:30
zerojaydamn font.03:30
pupnikwho has feed for stskeeps interview?03:30
pupnikurl, stream03:31
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crashanddieStskeeps, evening03:35
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pupnikawesome interview03:36
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pupnikwas on front page - my browser skipped past the fp-03:36
pupnikstream dead?03:40
GeneralAntillesWorking here.03:40
pupnikcan not connect here any more03:41
pupnikis the internet getting slower?03:42
luke-jrpupnik: no, we're capping you.03:43
pupnik stream back on setbit03:43
wiretappedin case anyone here doesn't know how IRC works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ03:44
pupnikwow interviewer is semi awol03:46
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Robot101hmm, does finefm on Mer work with ke-recv to do SD card plugging/unplugging magic?03:47
pupnikSHUT THAT WOMAN UP03:47
pupnikSTREAM BROKE AGAIN03:47
GuySofthey all, is there any document on the net to explain how to download a big area for maemo mapper and save it on the device? I am going to another country and wont have any internet03:53
lcuktake photos, screenshots of maps and other interesting things as normal pictures.03:54
wiretappedGuySoft: https://garage.maemo.org/viewvc/trunk/data/help/en_US/maemomapper.xml?root=maemo-mapper#help_maemomapper_mapman_Area_heading03:54
lcukif any of your mapping solutions fails you will have them with you locally03:54
GeneralAntillesThey need more prepared questions.03:55
GeneralAntillesPoor Carsten.03:55
wiretappedwhere is this stream?03:55
GeneralAntilleshttp://stream.tllts.org:8000/tllts03:55
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GeneralAntillesThe IRC channel sucks, too.03:56
pupnikgood job to Stskeeps03:56
GeneralAntilles"Let's talk about Droid!"03:57
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GuySoftstrange, why all the google street maps fail to download??04:07
wiretappednot sure, but i noticed that recently too :(04:09
wiretappedgoogle must've changed something04:09
GuySofti carnt pull a thing, google must have changed something04:09
wiretappedOSM and VE both worked when i tried a week ago04:09
wiretappedbut no google :(04:09
GeneralAntillesNot impressed by this show or its audience.04:09
wiretappedOSM has gotten quite good lately though04:09
wiretappedall these devices with linux based OSes... LOL04:10
wiretappedgood response to that from stskeeps04:10
GuySofti am going to sharem in Egypt.. i am not sure how many geeks with free time aree there04:11
GuySoftare*04:11
wiretappedstream died04:15
wiretappedconnection refused04:15
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GuySoftyes maemo mapper carnt access google anymore04:17
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GuySoftwill maemo mapper manage to download 357000 maps??04:22
wiretappedfor one thing, if your filesystem block size is 4KB that will require 1.3GB...04:24
wiretappedand the map provider might block you before you're done04:25
guysoft42wirelessdreamer, i have 4G free on the sd04:25
guysoft42wirelessdreamer, OSM?04:25
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wiretappedbut i doubt maemo mapper will stop you04:25
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guysoft42its taking 175 RAM04:25
wiretappedI don't know what OSM will do... I do know that long ago when google did work, google blocked me after only a few thousand tiles04:26
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GeneralAntillesWorst. Interviewers. Ever.04:26
guysoft42ill try..04:26
wiretappedGeneralAntilles: are you messing with texas?04:26
GeneralAntillesAnytime! Anywhere!04:27
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, nice job!04:36
Stskeepsthanks04:36
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, you did nearly as well as Quim handling incompetent interviewers. ;)04:36
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Stskeepsjesus, that was rough04:49
dmj726I can confirm that World of Goo runs in scratchbox!04:49
pupnikcongrats :)04:51
pupnik++ dmj72604:51
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dmj726THe application manager won't accept the .deb, but you can just use the .tar.gz version04:52
Livingroomhey everybody04:52
Livingroomanyone know anything about PAN on maemo?04:53
Livingroomso far i've got everything working except DNS04:53
dmj726Extract it to a folder on the scratchbox install and run it from the command line.04:53
Livingroomi can go to google's IP for example but if i try to use www.google.com it doesnt resolve04:53
Livingroomalso now i have issues SSH'ing on my network04:54
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, no kidding.04:54
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, seriously, though, good job.04:54
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Livingroomis there an easy way to reset the network settings on the N800 to default?04:56
dmj726wait.  Does scratchbox use full opengl or es2.0?04:56
Robot101dmj726: full opengl probably...04:58
dmj726hmm...may need more than a recompile then04:58
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pupnikLivingroom: tra with another drvice first - oc, laptop05:00
pupnikpc05:00
pupniktry05:00
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Livingroompupnik: tried it, cant connect into or out of the n800.05:20
Livingroompupnik: all other computers communicate properly05:20
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Livingroomgoddamnit this is pissing me off, now05:23
Livingroommy wifi is not working at all like it's supposed to05:23
Livingroomit's got no throughput, fraught with "no route to host" errors and you cant connect into the device05:23
Livingroomguess i have to reinstall. *sigh*05:24
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Livingroomwhats the latest n800 firmware?05:32
Livingroomand how do i tell what version i have?05:32
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penguinbaitcontrol panel > About05:40
GeneralAntilles47-305:40
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dmj726I see usbcontrol in the repos.  Is that any indication of usb host capacity?05:44
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GeneralAntillesdmj726, no.05:51
dmj726ok05:51
Livingroomi have version 5.2008.43-705:51
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* timeless_mbp frowns06:07
timeless_mbpok, so... i killed my resolv.conf06:07
timeless_mbpand rebooted06:07
timeless_mbpand got the comcast dns entry back06:07
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GeneralAntillesComcast: It's Virally Comcastic06:13
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XisdibikGeneralAntilles: I actualy have pretty good experiance with Comcast internet06:28
XisdibikConsidering we pay for 12mbps down  2-3 mbps up, and get 16mbps down,  9mbps up :)06:28
dmj726Right now I'm getting ~8 MBps down06:29
Xisdibikwhat part of the world are you in?06:29
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dmj726USA I'm at a dorm06:29
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Xisdibikdorms have comcast?06:29
dmj726no06:29
dmj726...COmcast was slower06:30
Xisdibikwow really06:30
Xisdibikwhat part of the US of A06:30
dmj726Also I get about the same up speed as down06:30
Xisdibikwell thats because there on a direct LAN06:30
dmj726Keep in mind that I said 8 MBps not Mbps06:30
Xisdibikah, heh06:30
dmj726also comcast has a cap of 250 GB per month06:31
Xisdibikoh ur not even the person who was talking about comcast :P06:31
Xisdibikwell most dorms have a cap06:31
Xisdibikmy schools was 10GB/week06:31
dmj726illinois06:31
luke-jr10 GB/week is ridiculously low06:31
Xisdibikindeed luke-jr06:31
dmj726I'm not at a university dorm, so we don't have a cap06:31
Xisdibikdorm for what then?06:32
dmj726it's a private dorm at the university06:32
luke-jr10 GB/week = 32 kbps06:32
dmj726better than the university run ones06:32
luke-jrwait, no06:32
luke-jr125 kbps06:32
luke-jr250 GB cap is at least slightly reasonable-- over 700 kbps06:33
Xisdibikyea, and most people dont use that much :P06:33
Xisdibikdo you really need to torrent 250GB / month?06:33
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dmj726I never went over it, but I don't like the feeling of that.06:34
luke-jrunlikely06:34
Xisdibikmeh alot of things have limits06:34
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dmj726the 250 GB thing is also listed as unlimited06:34
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luke-jrmy past month was merely 92 GB combined up+down06:34
Xisdibikeven vonage and stuff like that with "unlimited minutes" actualy have some rediculously high cap, but its there06:35
dmj726250 total up and down06:35
luke-jrthat's false advertising then06:35
luke-jrgo for a class action lawsuit -.-06:35
Xisdibikno, its some legal issue06:35
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, AOL definition.06:35
GeneralAntillesMeaning you can use it at any time.06:35
GeneralAntillesLawsuit is unlikely to work.06:35
luke-jr?06:35
GeneralAntilles"Unlimited" doesn't mean you can use as much bandwidth as you want, it means you can use it as often as you want.06:36
GeneralAntillesIt's from the AOL dial-up days.06:36
luke-jrpfft06:36
GeneralAntillesYeah, I know.06:36
GeneralAntillesBut what are you gonna do?06:36
GeneralAntillesCourts will uphold their "definition".06:36
luke-jractually, it does kinda make sense there06:37
dmj726The "announcement" of the 250 GB cap was in order to prevent legal action, since they got caught doing it in certain places without it being publicly know.06:37
luke-jrit's not like they contrast it with other caps06:37
luke-jrI don't know what excuse Vonage might have06:37
dmj726That said, I'm happy with my dorm internet, actually unlimited, fast, symetric connection06:38
dmj726...Ubuntu downloads in 2 minutes.06:38
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Crayguys, fresh install on an n800- extremely slow wifi connectivity. worked before same router. what gives?06:44
RedPenguinIs it a Linksys router? If so, unplugging those seems to boost speed.06:45
RedPenguinNote: Other brands due apply as well.06:45
Crayno, it's a belkin06:46
RedPenguinI would try it anyway06:47
Crayum06:47
Crayunplugging the router, i.e. "depriving your NAT-box of Electricity" tends to slow things down to the point of unusability06:47
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RedPenguinodd, my network always snapped back to normal after plugging it back in06:48
RedPenguinI was hoping that my previous statement implied to plug it back in after unplugging it.06:49
RedPenguinGuess power cycle would have been a much better way of saying it.06:49
luke-jrlol06:52
Crayoh06:53
Craywell06:53
Crayyeah i did that 3 times already06:53
RedPenguinWell, that obviously that isn't going to help then.06:53
luke-jrunless you're insane06:54
luke-jrif so, try again06:54
RedPenguinLike I said, every Linksys I've ever seen seems to get a "temporary clog" to where no connections go through it, but unplugging it fixes that.06:55
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luke-jrmeh, it's your fault for using ugly hacks like NAT06:56
luke-jrshould be assigning globally routable IPs to every toaster and mouse06:57
dmj726Yeah, nice static IP addresses for all!06:57
dmj726That way I can host a dozen web servers from home.06:57
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dmj726and one from my pocket!06:58
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luke-jrweb servers don't need dedicated IPs...06:58
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dmj726no, but it makes things nicer, especially if the ip isn't changing every couple days06:58
RedPenguinI one time tried to picture life, without DNS with commericals saying, instead of Google It, 74.125.53.100 It!06:59
dmj726hehe07:00
RedPenguinI'm pretty much the only person in all of my computer friends that actually can remember an IP. Others can't even remember their own.07:01
dmj726dns works better if it doesn't have to keep track of random ip changes07:01
dmj726I can remember a limited set07:01
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RedPenguinSame here, but seems your own IP would be the number one to remember.07:02
luke-jrRedPenguin: I can memorize pi, but IPs are just too long :/07:02
RedPenguinEvery single number of pi?07:02
luke-jrlol no07:03
dmj726luke-jr: Please type all of pi in this channel.07:03
luke-jrjust 30-50 digits07:03
RedPenguinoh07:03
luke-jrI think back in the old IPv4 days I had a few memorized.07:04
luke-jrbut they were much shorter then07:04
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RedPenguinNetmasks are always fun, because people can't just say 255x3 or something07:10
RedPenguinThey make you sit through 255 DOT 255 DOT 255 DOT 007:11
CrayAAAUGH this is F*WUFGHS aggravating07:11
Craywhy is my wifi throughput almost NIL????????07:11
Crayhow can i "hard reset" the n800 back to factory?07:11
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Nitialre-flash it?07:14
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Craymagically, my throughput seems to have returned07:24
Craywhat07:24
Craythe07:24
Crayfark07:24
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Craynow it's gone again *sigh*07:28
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Craywhat is the recommended reset method if the device is unresponsive?08:00
johnxssh :)08:01
Klownerdon't shush him, it's a valid question!08:02
johnx:D08:02
luke-jr;)08:02
Craylol08:03
Craymy router is haywire, thats my opinion08:03
Crayall internetwork communication is frozen08:03
Crayall wireless devices are suffering from massive lag08:03
Crayor *intranetwork* communication08:03
johnxyou've crippled the internet! noooo...08:03
Klownerhenceforth known only as the internot08:04
Craywow this is gay08:04
Crayit's totally f*cked up08:04
CrayDefiant cant talk to Excelsior (my n800) who cant talk to mirand or akira. goddamnit. and enterprise cant ssh to any of them. what the living hell08:04
Crayever since i enabled wpa08:05
Craybrb. installing backup router08:05
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johnxspeaking of b0kenness...I managed to freeze the UI on my n900 and ssh is not responsive, but tapping the screen will un-dim the backlight08:07
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Livingroomemergency backup router installed. testing to commence08:08
RST38hmoo all08:12
RST38hAny maemo.org admins here at the moment?08:12
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johnxanyone know how to trick the windows based nokia software update into saving an update image file but not flashing it?08:16
blargok08:17
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Livingroomthere we go08:17
Livingroomok08:17
Livingroomwith all the crap out of the way, back on target08:18
Livingroommaemo-pan.08:18
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Livingroomanyone here tether their nXXX to an iphone?08:18
Livingroomi'm doing so, but unless i specify an ip for the bnep0 manually, it never grabs an addr from dhcp08:18
Livingroomthere's alot of chatter about bad packets or something in the udhcpc -i runtime08:19
Livingroomand then when i manually specify a DNS, it fails to resolve.08:19
Livingroomany suggestions?08:19
johnxhave you tethered a linux box to your iphone successfully?08:19
Livingroomhmm08:19
Livingroomno, only windows08:19
johnxbut at least windows is ok with it?08:19
Livingroomyup08:19
Livingroomwindows xp, 7, mobile 2003se, etc. they all love it08:19
johnxso when you specify an address manually you can ping out to IP addresses with no (or little) packet loss?08:19
Livingroomyes08:20
Livingroomthey go right through08:20
Livingroomand i can download files from an ip at like 12k over edge08:20
Livingroomso the connection is very stable08:20
johnxcan you nslookup?08:20
Livingroomthe iphone lights up in tethering mode, too08:20
Livingroomno08:20
Livingroomi cannot.08:20
Livingroomit does the usual address1 line08:20
Livingroomand then after 3 minutes tells me it cant.08:20
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johnxtry this: nslookup google.com 216.239.32.1008:21
johnxthat's ns.google.com08:21
Livingroomhm, ok08:21
johnxlet's see if you can access any external DNS at all08:21
Livingroomlet me fire up the link. br08:21
Livingroom*brb08:21
Livingroomthe lack of DHCP is more than a little annoying, because i have to manually type 3 stupid lines into the system each time i connect08:22
Livingroomifconfig bnep0 192.168.20.2 up08:22
Livingroomroute add default gw 192.168.20.108:22
johnxyeah, it's weird that dhcp isn't working08:22
Livingroomthen i do echo "nameserver 151.164.1.8" > /tmp/resolv.conf.lo08:23
johnxis this the 'native' iphone tethering? or some jailbreak thing?08:24
Livingroomnative08:24
Livingroomwhich is awesome, i'm still on fw 3.0 lawl08:24
johnxI'd be interested to see the udhcpc output at some point08:24
Livingroomi can show it to you08:25
Livingroomthers about 300 lines of "THIS PACKET IS BAD"08:25
Livingroomand thats right after it assigns a 169.x.x.x08:25
Livingroomill pipe it to a text file and put it up on nopaste or something in a sec08:25
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johnxalright, first I'd like to see the result of that nslookup though08:25
johnxthat'd answer if there's any hope of proceeding08:25
Livingroomok08:25
Livingroomestablished the link, adding the settings now08:26
Livingroomtrying to anyway. hold up08:27
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wazdheya all08:28
RST38hheya wazd08:29
Livingroomsup wazd08:29
johnxallo wazd08:29
Livingroomhey john, so far all i have is08:29
LivingroomExcelsior:~# nslookup google.com 216.239.32.1008:29
LivingroomServer:    216.239.32.1008:29
Livingroomi'm ssh'ed to the iphone, and from there ssh'ed over BT to the n80008:29
Livingroomif you want, ill open up the NAT and you can ssh in08:29
luke-jrGoogle is 2001:4860:b004::6808:29
Livingroomit's just sitting here too08:30
johnxluke-jr, I think I'm going to replace my nslookup with a script that bothers you on IRC to ask IPs :D08:30
johnxLivingroom, alright08:30
Livingroomok08:30
LivingroomAddress 1: 216.239.32.1008:30
Livingroomnslookup: can't resolve 'google.com'08:30
luke-jrjohnx: don't whine about lag.08:30
johnxtry replacing the IP for the server with the one of your carrier's DNS08:30
luke-jrdig AAAA ipv6.google.com @4.2.2.208:31
luke-jrkthx08:31
Livingroomi did it with Server:    151.164.1.808:31
Livingroomwhich i'm currently pinging in another xterm with a 400~ ms ping08:31
luke-jrLivingroom: try mtr08:31
Livingroommtr?08:31
johnxluke-jr, maemo4 package?08:31
luke-jryeah, mtr is cool08:31
luke-jrjohnx: ?08:31
Livingroom~mtr08:31
infobotNetwork diagnostic tool. URL: http://www.bitwizard.nl/mtr/08:31
johnxluke-jr, is there one?08:32
luke-jrjohnx: no clue. Maemo 4 is obsolete and crappy.08:32
Livingroomproblem is, luke, i can use IPs ok with browser, apt, etc. but domains refuse to lookup08:32
Livingroomhere's the deal08:32
luke-jrLivingroom: echo nameserver 4.2.2.2 > /etc/resolv.conf08:32
Livingroomthe n800 is running maemo-pan to my iphone (but dhcp doesnt work so i'm specifying an addr manually) the iphone is on edge and its showing tether and is relaying packets properly08:33
johnxluke-jr, you know that's not a helpful thing to do on maemo4...08:33
luke-jrjohnx: no? I don't use Maemo4 and you know it08:33
Livingroomlonger pause this time but still08:33
LivingroomAddress 1: 151.164.1.808:33
Livingroomnslookup: can't resolve 'google.com'08:33
johnxluke-jr, so don't give people suggestions that you're not sure won't break their setup08:33
luke-jrjohnx: if it breaks Maemo, then Maemo is broken08:33
johnxluke-jr, maemo is broken08:34
Livingroomresolv.conf shows nameserver 127.0.0.108:34
luke-jrLivingroom: can you mtr 4.2.2.2?08:34
Livingroomi dont have mtr08:34
Livingroomand 4.2.2.2 is not on my local subnet08:34
luke-jrof course it isn't08:34
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johnxLivingroom, just for fun, why not try nslookup again and use your iphone as the DNS?08:35
luke-jrhttp://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/mtr-tiny/08:35
johnxluke-jr, we've already established that he can't seem to reach DNS servers that are off his network08:35
Livingroomok so08:35
Livingroomusing 127.x as the dns lit up my screen08:35
Livingroomwhich was dormant08:35
Livingroombut no dice.08:35
luke-jriPhone isn't 127.x08:35
Livingroomno, the tablet is though08:36
Livingroomoh08:36
Livingroom!08:36
luke-jrhe said try using iphone IP08:36
luke-jr:p08:36
Livingroomuse my IPHONE as the DNS lawl08:36
Livingroombrb08:36
johnx:)08:36
Livingroomholy crap08:36
Livingroomfast response08:36
LivingroomExcelsior:/etc# nslookup google.com 192.168.20.108:36
LivingroomServer:    192.168.20.108:36
LivingroomAddress 1: 192.168.20.108:36
Livingroomnslookup: can't resolve 'google.com'08:36
Livingroominstantaneous answer08:36
Livingroomno delay08:36
luke-jrO.o08:36
luke-jroh, Google is down. that's why08:36
Livingroom...08:36
Livingroomlies08:36
luke-jrj/k :)08:36
johnxwell, it probably refused the connection...08:37
luke-jrLivingroom: does it work from the iPhone?08:37
Livingroomhm08:37
Livingroomyes08:37
Livingroomit does08:37
Livingroomsplendidly08:37
luke-jrcan you SSH to iPhone?08:37
Livingroomyes08:37
johnxI wonder how dns normally works when tethered to an iphone...08:37
Livingroomand vice versa08:37
Livingroomin fact my windows pc which i'm on now is SSH'ed to the iphone which in turn i SSH'ed to the n80008:37
luke-jrsetup a DNS server that calls "ssh iphone dig "$1" +short" for lookups :)O08:38
Livingroomthe iphone has a version of BIND/DNS on it08:38
luke-jrnot running?08:38
Livingroomlet me try to start it08:38
johnxyeah, then nmap it to see if it's really working08:38
luke-jrperhaps configured to only bind loopback?08:39
johnxfull bind would be insane though08:39
johnxhopefully it's dnsmasq or similar08:39
luke-jryeah, it really would lol08:39
johnxluke-jr, would explain why the iphone can't multitask :D08:39
Livingroomthis bind is 3rd party, installed from apt/cydia08:40
luke-jrXD08:40
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johnxmight be interesting to get nmap on the n800 just to help troubleshoot08:40
johnxI don't think mtr will be helpful as I have a feeling some firewall along the way isn't letting connections to :53 pass08:41
luke-jrit would tell us that :p08:41
johnxit can connect on arbitrary ports?08:41
luke-jreh, I would assume so08:42
luke-jrtracepath can at least08:42
* johnx finds out08:42
johnxif it can, I don't know how you specify that08:42
Livingroomhm08:42
Livingroombind was not installed correctly08:42
johnxseems to be strictly ICMP08:42
Livingroomi'm reinstalling08:42
Livingroomok08:43
Livingroomit's installed08:43
luke-jr...08:43
Livingroombind is not running08:44
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Livingroomodd08:44
LivingroomAHA08:46
LivingroomBEHOLD:08:46
Livingroomthere is nothing in netstat -an for LISTEN on port *5308:46
Livingroomon the iphone08:46
Livingroomtherefore, no DNS service is on the iphone.08:46
johnxI figured that was why nslookup cam back so quick08:46
johnxso then the next question is: how is the windows maching getting dns out?08:46
johnxmaybe proxying it?08:47
Livingroomno08:47
Livingroomthe windows is just going to 151.164.1.8 like it's supposed to08:47
johnxmight be interesting to do a quick install of nmap on the n800 from extras08:48
johnxthen: nmap -P0 151.164.1.808:48
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Livingroomok one sec08:49
johnxand you should make a script starting tethering so you don't go insane :)08:50
Livingroomi need to edit the one that comes with maemo-pan08:50
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johnxhttp://pastebin.ca/166771908:50
Livingroomwoah woah woah woah woah08:50
Livingroomapt cant resolve now that i switched over to wifi08:51
johnxhuh08:51
Livingroomi cant resolve any hostnames08:51
johnxprobably trying to query that at&t dns server08:51
wazdhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34311 oh my...08:52
Livingroomi'm a bit put off from the n90008:53
Livingroomi liked n800 because it didnt require a carrier08:53
johnxthe n900 doesn't either08:53
johnxruns just fine without a sim08:53
Livingroomis it sold without one though?08:53
johnxin the UK you can get it on contract, but everywhere else I think it's mostly sold unlocked08:54
Livingroomi rebooted the n800 and now it can resolve08:54
Livingroomdo i need to chmod my shellscript?08:54
Livingroomlike 777 or something? to execute it?08:54
johnxyeah08:54
johnxchmod +x myscript.sh08:55
johnxand that one needs to be run as root of course ;)08:55
* wazd ponders bout making a video with his thoughts about this. It would be censored immediately though08:55
Livingroomhumm?08:55
Livingroomok nmap is here08:55
Livingroomshould i "test" it before i go back on the iphone?08:56
johnxmight as well08:56
johnxtry nmap 4.2.2.1 and nmap <that at&t ns>08:56
Livingroomrunning it on wifi08:56
Livingroomi did the -P0 too08:56
Livingroomit shows ports08:56
Livingroom4.2.2.2 shows no ports. but the ATT one shows 3 porst08:57
Livingroomgoing on iphone tether now08:57
johnxeh eh08:57
johnxhang on08:57
johnxyou should definitely see 53/tcp open domain08:59
johnxon 4.2.2.108:59
johnxsame with 216.239.32.1008:59
Livingroomi didnt see 53 on either of the addrs08:59
johnxand you did run with -P0?08:59
johnxthat's a zero not an oh09:00
Livingroomyes, capital P09:00
Livingroomand zero09:00
Livingroomnmap runs on the iphone tether and reports ports 21, 22, and 443 on IP 151.164.1.809:01
johnxwhich explains why you can't use it to lookup IP addresses :)09:01
johnxfrom there it might be interesting to install nmap on the iphone. I assume cydia has it09:01
Livingroomyes. installing now09:02
johnxs/lookup IP addresses/lookup DNS names/ <- duuuh09:02
Livingroomhm09:03
Livingroomiphone has weird error messages09:03
Livingroomi'm pasting them one sec09:03
Livingroomhttp://pastebin.ca/166773409:03
MacerStskeeps: you around?09:04
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Chaniso... has anyone else noticed that the thired row of the symbol table on the n900 doesn't work?09:06
Chanii can't type a tilde09:06
suihkulokkiit is a "dead" char09:07
luke-jrLivingroom: uh, you mean N800 doesn't *support* a carrier.09:07
Chanior the .. caretz. the one for sowing powrs09:07
Chani*caret09:07
Chani?09:07
suihkulokkiChani: press the ~ and a to get a ã09:07
Chanisuihkulokki: you misunderstand09:08
suihkulokkiif you want just ~ , press tilda and space09:08
Livingroomjohn you still around?09:08
Chanithe tilde. the characetr you typed aftter "press a". i can.t use it on my n90009:08
Chanithat t,whole row of the symbol table isn.t respodiing09:09
johnxLivingroom, yup09:10
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suihkulokkiChani: I just used n900 to do those chars using the symbol table09:10
johnxLivingroom, not exactly surprising that nmap can't figure out how to get names resolved for it09:10
Livingroomwhy is that?09:10
Livingroomremember, that message was on the iphone09:10
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johnxyes09:10
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suihkulokkiàáâãä¡¿09:11
johnxI think nmap tries to resolv names itself instead of using libc09:11
suihkulokki`´^~¨09:11
johnxbut the question is: does it show 53 is open on the at&t nameserver?09:11
Chani~ fffk09:11
Chani[C09:11
Chaniffkdhfhfdhdhgggf09:11
Chani~.09:11
Chanidfvbfjukivb wrlops[Ap,09:11
infobot.09:11
Chanifjfjfggggg09:11
Livingroomno, it does not johnx09:12
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johnxChani, first of all: stop that09:12
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johnxsecond, open the symbol board, press ~, then press the hardware spacebar09:12
Livingroomin fact, it doesnt show it open on 4.2.2.2 or 151.164.1.8 or 216.239.32.1009:12
Chani~.fvdbkliflvbfjuvf09:12
Chanisorry09:13
Chaniwifi keeps cutting out09:13
johnxLivingroom, well, I'm totally stumped how it's supposed to be working then. I think I'm not understanding  what's really happening when it's tethered to windows09:13
Chanii wasn.t seeing any of that :/09:13
johnxChani, no worries. :) I thought you were trying to be annoying09:13
Livingroomiunno09:13
johnxalso, I really don't get how nmap isn't able to connect to :53, and yet the rest of the iphone can09:14
Livingroomlet me tether to windows and see what ifconfig says about it09:14
Livingroombrb09:14
Livingroomalso09:14
Livingroomi think alot of this had to do wtih dhcp failing09:14
Livingroomdhcp is _supposed_ to give it the dns server info09:14
Chaniok... so the n900 is doing what *looks* like a tilde (losing points for identical buttons behaving differently). but thatt character is NOT a tilde, which is really not cool. ssh is not recognising it as a control character so it must be something else that just looks exactly like a tilde09:16
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Chanikinda like microsoft quotes :P09:17
pupnikback to day zero. ascii09:17
Chaniexcept this actually breaks functions09:17
Livingroommicrosoft quotes sounds like a failed AI for Win 3.1 that mimicked steven wright.09:18
suihkulokkiit is a tilde09:18
Chanii can't kill ssh. that combined with the wifi freezing up regularly is going to be way too annoying09:18
johnxChani, it's a tilde. cd ~ works on my n90009:18
Chanisuihkulokki: no; it just looks like one09:19
Chanijohnx: really:09:19
Chani:09:19
Livingroomjohnx brb09:19
Chani:09:19
Chaniargh.09:19
johnxyes really Chani09:19
johnxI just did it09:19
suihkulokkime too09:19
ChaniVme tries again09:19
ShapeshifterChani: your ":" also just looks like a colon?09:19
Chani~.09:19
Shapeshifterbut is actually a question mark :P09:19
infobot.09:19
Chanisee:09:19
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johnxChani, also, if by "wifi freezing" you mean it sometimes takes forever to ssh *into* the n900, then that's kind of unavoidable when it's using such agressive power saving settings09:20
Chanienter_tilde_dot doesn't work :/09:20
johnxwhat is that supposed to do?09:20
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Chanisee:09:21
suihkulokkijohnx: not unavoidable, just need a newer firmware09:21
Chanijohnx: no; i mean it thinks it is online but cant receie any data09:21
johnxoh weird. I didn't know it did that to ssh09:21
Chanino thata is the wifi problem09:22
suihkulokkisomeone need to make a "howto to use tilde on n900" youtube video for chani09:22
johnxsuihkulokki, really? I guess I haven't experienced that problem yet then09:22
pupniki keep a ping running if im on AC power at homed09:22
Chanienter tilde dot is the sequence that disconnects ssh no matter how messed up it is09:22
johnxChani, I'll test it here09:22
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blargok09:22
blargi cant09:22
blargwhat the crap09:22
pupnik...09:22
suihkulokki~.09:22
infobot.09:23
Chanisomehow the  n900 is breakingthst09:23
ShapeshifterChani: yay. didn't know that09:23
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johnxChani, it works here09:23
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johnxis it timing sensitive?09:23
Livingroomjohnx i have to hit the hay09:23
Livingroomand now windows doesnt want to tether09:23
Livingroomso something may be screwed up09:24
pupnikmaybe some languages have probs09:24
suihkulokkitilde is still ascii so it isn't utf8 problem?09:24
pupnikok09:24
johnxLivingroom, alright. I fixed it to work as well as it does on windows, just like you asked!09:24
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Livingroomjohnx ROFL09:25
ShapeshifterHas someone with an n900 tried tethering through bluetooth and can say anything about battery life while using it like that for general web surfing without heavy transfers?09:25
Chaniargh i.m offline again09:25
Chaniblah09:26
LivingroomOH MY GOD please DONT SAY TETHERING09:26
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Shapeshiftermh?09:26
johnxheh. I never had bad luck tethering my n800 to an se "dumb phone" :)09:26
Livingroomi shouldve leveled to 80 tonight instead i did this :(09:27
Chanijohnx: is not time sensiitive but you have to enter exactly those characters in that sequence. no others. cd ~ does work though09:27
Chanibecause of this i have to close the window on every disconnect09:27
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johnxwell, all I can say is the ssh disconnect trick works just fine here on 41-10 firmware09:28
Livingroomjohnx windows will connect but not aquire an IP09:28
Chanijohnx: weiiird09:28
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johnxLivingroom, woo! un-jailbreak and return to apple :)09:29
Livingroomhaha yeah no.09:29
Livingroomit worked before :P09:29
Livingroomgonna try win7 brb09:29
johnxif it fails there, might want to remove bind09:30
Shapeshiftermhh, tethering via wlan09:30
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Chanijohnx: mine's 42_1109:30
Livingroom i already removed bind09:30
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Livingroomi also found my old dongle, going to try that with the widcomm stack instead of bluesoleil09:30
johnxI always find it remarkable how some companies get this neat little set of things right, and everything else so incredibly wrong :)09:31
Chanii really wonder why they put the apostrophe on fn. do maemo developers not use contractions?09:31
Livingroomfuck, widcomm stack doesnt work. wow, i'm having ALL the luck tonight09:31
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pupnikthninking of what johnx ?09:31
johnxpupnik, apple doing such a good job on so many things, and botching others so badly on the iphone09:32
pupnikoh09:32
Livingroomi'm starting to doubt that apple is to blame for this09:32
Livingroombecause it worked before09:32
Chanihmm. the again . and , are the only non-alpha characters to get their own key09:32
Livingroomand now it doesnt09:32
Livingroommany tinkerings later as root09:32
pupnikalways hated apple for reducing the bandwidth between usdr and computer09:32
pupnikuser09:33
johnxLivingroom, it's just that every other computer in your house is wrong and your iphone is right? :)09:33
Shapeshiftermhh.09:33
Shapeshifterjoikuspot?09:33
RST38hjohnx: who cares what apple botches? iphone is shiny!09:34
johnxpupnik, reducing? well, that's fair to say in some cases. but it's more like: increasing the bandwidth for 80% of the users, and cutting it off entirely for the other 20%09:34
pupnikheh ok09:34
RST38hfrom the revenue viewpoint, that is fine09:35
johnxRST38h, it's the same as being an aerospace engineer and watching in interest as the competitor's shiny new airplane does a half-gainer into a lake09:35
johnxRST38h, and if you're one of those 80% it's like the greatest thing in the world :)09:35
RST38hthe shiny new airplane has already been sold, and there is not liability09:35
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pupnikis gainer a US colloquialism?09:35
johnxpupnik, diving terminology :)09:36
pupniki olnly heard it used in the midwest09:36
RST38hbesides, it is easier to make stupid people part with money09:36
pupnikfunny word to combine with "airplÃane" - thought i was back in MN09:37
johnxpupnik, watch this video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYjTIVuSEgU , then imagine a 737 doing that :)09:37
Livingroomjohnx: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED09:38
johnxLivingroom, no more WMDs in your iphone?09:39
pupnikwondows mobile device09:39
Livingroomjohnx: lol, not quite: nothing can BT-tether currently. apparently, the BT-PAN host service on the iphone is damaged. YAY! i get to upgrade my firmware. EPIC. or i can figure out what badly written 3rd party app is breaking it09:39
johnxahaha. I kinda figured it was something like that09:40
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Livingroomi must now decide if i should go for the broke and take the ultimate plunge or if i should try to fix whats there. cable-tether isnt working either :(09:40
ShapeshifterLivingroom: you have an iphone?09:40
Livingroomthats the worst part. it was working like 3 weeks ago09:40
Livingroomyes09:40
Shapeshifterquite a pain isn't it.09:40
johnx"go for broke" = upgrade firmware?09:40
Shapeshiftersell it?09:40
Livingroomyes, firmware upgrades suck dick.09:41
Livingroomyou has to reinstall everything, which is alot for me09:41
johnxah, all your jailbreaky stuff09:41
Livingroomyes09:41
Livingroomall my...installous stuff09:41
pupnikhow do you think ppl can best watch youtube on N8x0?09:42
Livingroomwould like to reflash 3.0 but sadly i dont think ill get to09:42
johnxpupnik, mytube or canola09:42
pupnikmytube cant keep up with new youtube - at default format audio drops out09:43
johnxbummer09:43
johnxI saw something really cool the other day: a greasemonkey/userscript to make youtube do the html5 <video> thing09:43
pupnikaddint fmt=6 to the youtube string yields smooth sound but 1/2 sppeed video09:43
pupnikmaybe there is another &fmt= string that yields playable video on Nokia N8x0 - if someone finds it pls share09:44
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pupniknot sure how that helps09:45
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johnxdoesn't help yet, just sharing09:46
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Livingroomjohnx, thanks for all your help. going to bed now09:51
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Livingroomjohnx you still around??09:58
johnxyup :)09:58
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johnxyou didn't manage to leave for long09:58
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Corsachaha09:59
crayerr09:59
craydamnit all to hell09:59
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livingroomok09:59
livingroomjohnx you still around?09:59
johnxyes09:59
johnxstill here :)09:59
livingroomok so09:59
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johnxget a good night's sleep?10:00
livingroomi reset the carrier settings, deactivated tethering, rebooted the phone and now windows will pull down an IP10:00
linfl683Does someone know a good tutorial, or can tell me how to use gstreamer on my n810. I want to stream video from my cam to a server...10:00
livingroomgoing to try n800 now10:00
livingroomHOOOOOOOOLLLIEEEEEEEEE SHITTTT10:01
livingroomit F*CKING WORKED10:01
pupniklinfl683: there is a howto.  qualÃity is bad10:01
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livingroomit worked it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked10:01
linfl683pupnik:  Where can I find that?10:01
_|Nix|_Hey! /window 410:02
_|Nix|_Ooops :)10:02
johnxlivingroom, congrats :)10:02
livingroomi have the google blowjob logo right now on my n80010:02
livingroomit DHCPeed10:02
livingroomWOOOOHOOOOOO10:02
livingroomhold on. i'm going to take a picture of this10:02
pupnikthink talk.maemo.org.  keywords gstreamer camera10:02
JaffaMorning, all10:02
pupniklivingroom, you connected n800 to your wlan?10:03
pupnikhello sir jaffa!10:03
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linfl683pupnik: Can you get an URL for me or something? please10:06
livingroompupnik: no, i connected it to my iphone for tethering10:07
livingroomhttp://img441.imageshack.us/i/picture0007o.jpg/10:08
livingroomobserve MY GREATNESS10:08
livingroomwhich is thanks in very large part to JohnX10:08
livingroomhad he not stuck with me, i'dve never figured it out10:08
pupniklinfl i dont have a url, but the streaming worked right from command line woth gstreamer10:08
livingroomi award you one internet, johnx10:09
livingroom~johnx10:09
johnxwoo! I couldn't have done it without all the little people...which is to say: leprechauns10:09
pupniklinfl683: imagine the worst webcam image you ever saw10:09
livingroom~learn johnx HE IS EPIC AND AWESOME10:09
infobotI think you lost me on that one, livingroom10:09
pupnikthen divide resolution by four10:09
johnxinfobot, I don't love you anymore10:09
livingroomlol10:10
linfl683pupnik: Hahah ok10:10
infobotYou don't love you anymore?10:10
johnxuhm, but yeah, it's just my AR troubleshooting10:10
johnxinfobot, die in a fire10:10
* infobot murders in a fire, takes two shots to the head then crumples to the ground, lifeless...10:10
johnxO_O; I never thought he'd go through with it10:10
livingroom~topic add johnx10:10
*** infobot changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt | Q&A and Extras-testing discussion - November 10, 14:30 UTC @ #maemo-meeting - http://tinyurl.com/yfjglvd || johnx"10:10
livingroom~topic add IS EPIC10:11
*** infobot changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt | Q&A and Extras-testing discussion - November 10, 14:30 UTC @ #maemo-meeting - http://tinyurl.com/yfjglvd || johnx || IS EPIC"10:11
johnxalright. little to far :)10:11
livingroomlol i'm just excited10:11
livingroomdidnt mean to spawn10:11
livingroom*spawm10:11
livingroom*spam10:11
livingroomnow you are immortalized. anyway, i get to go to bed now10:11
pupniküthat was a fast problem resolution livingroom10:11
pupnikgood rest10:11
livingroompupnik: i started at 11:001m this morning10:11
pupnikoh10:11
livingroombah 11:00am10:11
johnxno worries about the spam, but I don't want to be part of the topic O_o10:12
livingroomAHA! you're immortal now10:12
Maceryawn10:12
johnx~topic Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt | Q&A and Extras-testing discussion - November 10, 14:30 UTC @ #maemo-meeting - http://tinyurl.com/yfjglvd10:12
livingroomi was only trying to add something where you could go ~johnx and the bot would be like "he's awesome"10:12
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livingroomdid you see the pic? let me post it again http://img441.imageshack.us/i/picture0007o.jpg/10:13
livingroomcan we put that pic in the topic? it's relevant.10:13
livingroomrelevant TO AWESOME.10:13
livingroomanyway, night10:13
johnx'night livingroom10:13
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* RST38h is not sure what that picture is relevant to10:17
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Macerwell10:19
Macerdoesn't look like my phone can load this damn ajax interface10:19
johnx~topic is Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt | Q&A and Extras-testing discussion - November 10, 14:30 UTC @ #maemo-meeting - http://tinyurl.com/yfjglvd10:20
Macerer10:21
johnxa little help here O_o;10:21
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johnx~topic restore 310:26
*** infobot changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt"10:26
johnxya10:26
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hrwmorning10:28
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pupnik http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111094923390   Microsoft patents 'sudo'10:30
RST38hoh well10:36
RST38hmorning hrw10:36
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edgar21trying to setup IRC on the N900, but the account-plugin-idle 0.2 doesn't seem to allow me to join any chats.11:27
edgar21what's the status of IRC on the N900?11:27
johnxI think most people use xchat or something in a console11:27
mgedminaccount-plugin-idle is a silly thing with no user interface11:27
mgedminmost people use xchat or irssi in a console11:27
zaheermthere is no multi-user-chat ui on n90011:28
zaheermso use xchat :)11:28
edgar21where would i get it? i couldn't find it in app manager11:28
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zaheermit probably is still in extras-devel11:29
zaheermwhich you should probably not enable unless you are willing to cause your phone issues :)11:29
adeusxchat in a console?11:30
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edgar21hm. no xchat in extras-devel11:31
cosmoi have extras-devel installed and no problems11:32
* timeless_mbp sighs11:32
cosmo(and xchat installed)11:32
johnxenabling extras-testing or extras-devel to get xchat then disabling it later should be no problem11:32
timeless_mbpsomeone asked me to do something incredibly wrong11:32
johnxinstalling random things from extras-devel without understanding the risks is asking for trouble11:32
zaheermyah if you want to do extras-devel do what johnx suggests11:33
pupnikone should be prepared to file bug reports11:33
edgar21that's a given11:33
edgar21however, is it safe to assume, that if extras-devel is only temporarily enabled to install specific packages, one can undo any potential harm by uninstalling that particular package afterwards?11:34
andre__edgar21, xchat is only in *Diablo* (Maemo4) Extras-devel. It basically works. Basically.11:34
andre__though I often get reconnects.11:34
andre__account-plugin-idle from Fremantle Extras-Testing works too but is simply missing a UI. I can log onto a server, but not join a channel :-P11:34
edgar21exactly, that's what i've experienced as well11:35
pupnikpeople can pm you11:35
pupnikit is a private messaging client11:35
pupniknot an irc client11:35
johnxandre__, hmm? are you saying it's not available at all for fremantle?11:35
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pupniki could swear i installed xchat at summit11:36
andre__johnx, xchat? haven't seen it so far11:36
andre__but haven't checked either for the last weeks11:36
johnxI have it running11:36
zaheermi have xchat installed11:36
johnxthere are a couple different versions for fremantle11:36
andre__oh?11:36
andre__didn't know that11:36
zaheermand i have no diablo repos11:36
andre__cool.11:36
zaheermit has a few quirks :)11:36
johnxsome base one and a qwerty12 enhanced version that was a little crashy last time I played with it :)11:37
Macerdid eureka get cancelled or something?11:37
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RST38handre: Can you contact someone who has management rights to maemo.org infrastructure?11:48
timeless_mbp> Despite Nokia's control over Maemo, more developers are contributing open source code to the community than for either Android or Maemo, writes Willis.11:48
RST38hWillis has got some problems with his English.11:49
SpeedEvilI preferred it when he just did Die Hard [n]11:49
timeless_mbp> It was announced on July 24, 2009 that the show [Eureka] had been picked up for a 22 episode fourth season,[1] set to air in mid-2010.[2]11:49
andre__RST38h, like?11:49
RST38handre: Like, since Nov 10 I am getting a flood of "Your product has been commented by anonymous" for a bunch of my Maemo5 product pages11:50
RST38handre: Same reported by wazd and VDVsx11:50
RST38handre: Looks like someone is running a bot that systematically goes over Maemo5 products and votes them down or something11:50
andre__uhm11:50
andre__Apple! Iphone! :-P11:50
lbt_nah... too dim11:51
andre__hmm, so a look at the logs might be helpful11:51
lbt_and it would include an ad11:51
RST38handre: Rather 5cc of Aminazin...11:51
VDVsxRST38h, andre__ ,also some people complained about it at -devel11:51
RST38handre: But it may, after all, be a bug in Midgard or something11:51
andre__that's probably X-Fade's area who's on holidays. I wonder if Jeremiah or Ferenc could take a look11:51
RST38handre: Could you please locate them and ask?11:51
andre__because I don't have access to such stuff (or maybe I have but I'm too stupid)11:51
andre__okay, let me try11:51
johnxheh. the sure way to tell if a launch is happening is to figure out what percentage of the nokia people handling crucial infrastructure are on vacation :D11:52
RST38handre: With approximate plan of looking at the lock, probably nullifying all votes since Nov 10, and maybe closing the anonymous voting loophole11:52
andre__johnx, it's not "nokia people".11:52
RST38handre: It has been a loophole for ages, but since nobody exploited it so far, it was ok11:52
johnxs/nokia//11:52
infobotjohnx meant: heh. the sure way to tell if a launch is happening is to figure out what percentage of the  people handling crucial infrastructure are on vacation :D11:52
RST38hs/lock/log11:52
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JaffaRST38h: Define "flood". I've had a few (say a dozen or so), but that could just be the rush of new users12:01
kynkyhow does maemo differ to limo ? maemo a better linux experience ?12:02
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RST38hJaffa: I am getting one every 30-60 minutes12:03
RST38hJaffa: ON the same 2-3 projects, for 3 days in a row12:03
johnxkynky, maemo is on shipping devices, with tons of available apps, gives you an environment similar to debian/ubuntu in many important ways, and gives you root access (if you want it) straight out of the box12:03
RST38hJaffa: And I am not sure what rush of new N900 users could have happened on Nov 1012:03
RST38hJaffa: Look more like a Midgard problem *or* someone going nuts from a dynamic IP12:04
kynkyjohnx i take it that means limo doesnt :)12:04
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johnxkynky, is limo on shipping devices?12:04
johnxwell, I guess the older versions are, but there's scant little info or development around them it seems12:05
JaffaRST38h: Well, devices are shipping and Maemo Select is very visible.12:05
kynkyjohnx saw this, Vodafone to announce two LiMo (Linux Mobile) smartphones in the 360 H1 and 360 M1 phones.12:05
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johnxah, the H112:05
kynkyfrom http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Nokia-N900-ships/http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Nokia-N900-ships/12:06
johnxI think that's a new generation of limo stuff12:06
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RST38hJaffa: Not shipping instantly though, are they? =)12:06
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johnxkynky, from the limofoundation site it looks like the current limo phones are locked down for the most part12:08
johnxunless I'm missing something big12:08
kynkyjohnx, not very forthcoming i thought12:09
kynkyas in them, not you :)12:09
zaheermthe H1 has been heavily advertised on TV here12:09
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johnxonce I see root on one of them, I'll totally change my tune12:10
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timeless_mbpandre__: hey12:11
zaheermjohnx, if ever you will see root12:11
timeless_mbpdon't template me12:11
johnxzaheerm, that's my point12:12
johnxI said the same thing to myself ~3 years ago when they announced the motorokr e812:12
zaheermvodafone won't dish it out to you :)12:12
zaheermlike nokia are kinda doing12:12
kynkyso n900 still seems best phone to get :)12:12
andre__timeless_mbp, but it was so inviting! ;-)12:13
johnxI don't care if vodafone roots it for me, or samsung offers a vanilla firmware, or some hacker gets root and voda/sammy don't try to 'fix' that in the next firmware12:13
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andre__and it's the same amount of clicks ;-)12:13
johnxkynky, if you want a linux phone, yeah I think the n900 is the best thing going right now12:14
kynkyjohnx , yeah12:15
kynkyjust wish the n900 i ordered arrived12:15
johnxgive it a bit more time ;) I think it'll be worth the wait12:16
timeless_mbpto be fair, the other bug was well written/summarized, i should have found it12:16
ccooke_Morning, all12:16
kynkymornin12:16
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Shapeshifterdumdidum12:27
* timeless_mbp looks around12:33
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pupnikare there any interesting video feeds for "Video Center"?12:35
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RST38hnot really12:39
RST38hwhy?12:39
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viqI found conflicting reports, does N900 have or have not a digital compass ?12:41
SpeedEvilNo.12:43
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johnxit does not have one12:43
SpeedEvilIt does not.12:43
SpeedEvilAt least normally.12:43
johnxif you take a digital compass and tape it to the back of your n900, then it will have one12:43
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SpeedEviljohnx: You're not thinking.12:43
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johnxbeat you to it :)12:43
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SpeedEviljohnx: A little compass, with a luminous needle, and a lens in the bottom, that you glue onto the front camera12:43
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mgedminoooh12:44
johnxsooo, by digital compass, you mean one that's entirely made of fingers, right?12:44
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SpeedEvilI wish accelerometers were about 3 orders of magnitude better12:45
wazdReheya all.12:45
SpeedEvil4 would be nice.12:45
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* johnx sleeps12:46
pupnikbtw, i got the accupower panther 6 charging the n900 bl-5j battery12:46
pupnikcheers johnx12:46
wazdCya johnx12:47
johnx'night wazd, pupnik :)12:47
RST38hg'night johnx12:47
johnx...and RST38h12:47
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pupnikstill 0%12:49
pupnik6%12:51
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mgedminpupnik, where do you get the numbers?12:51
pupnikdisplay readout12:52
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waz1RST38h: have you received anything from forum.nokia yet?12:52
waz1RST38h: and moo btw)12:52
pupnik10%12:52
RST38hwazd: Well, I ordered the device, they charged my credit card12:54
RST38hwazd: Aside from that, nothing at all12:54
waz1RST38h: ah, cool)12:54
waz1RST38h: still no e-mail for me)12:55
RST38hwazd: why do you need an email? you have registered at forum nokia pro already, right?12:55
waz1RST38h: yep12:55
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RST38hwazd: Log in there and go to eStore12:55
waz1RST38h: nothing there12:55
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RST38hYou should see the device there12:55
waz1RST38h: nop12:56
RST38hhmmmm12:56
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waz1RST38h: I already considered this)12:56
mgedminhm, I ordered the DDP device, but didn't get an SMS notifying that my card was charged12:56
RST38hWeird...Well, it did appear for me after a day or so12:56
mgedmineither the SMS got astray, or they didn't charge12:56
RST38hmgedmin: my bank account clearly shows two transactions from Nokia London12:57
RST38hmgedmin: One for $1, probably a test, another for $36912:57
mgedminBTW the DDP email I got a few weeks ago said they would email me when the device becomes available12:57
mgedminthey never did12:57
RST38hsame here12:57
* mgedmin too lazy to check bank statements online right now12:57
RST38hAnd it looks like you can order MULTIPLE discounted N900s from DDP :)12:57
mgedminwith credit cards they usually reserve a certain amount, and then charge it later12:58
mgedminI suspect I'm getting SMS notifications only on the actual charge bit12:58
mgedminI suspect if I checked I'd see the amount being reserved12:58
kynkyhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/11/12/viewsonic-vpc08-keeps-windows-xp-clamshell-style-alive/ lol12:58
mgedminmultiple? gaaaah!12:58
mgedminI ordered mine and it disappeared from the list12:58
RST38hLemme check12:58
mgedminI didn't think to try setting quantity to 212:59
mgedminnot that I would've12:59
pupnikRST38h: i coulÃd have ordered n 810s at 0 euro12:59
kynkywish i had ordered more than 112:59
waz1Latest south park episode clearly reflects my thoughts bout nokia, discounts, loaned devices and me12:59
kynkybut 1 is enough12:59
RST38hpupnik: Why haven'tyou? :)12:59
pupnikdo not exploit a good will gesture12:59
RST38hmgedmin: It still offers me more n(00s :)13:00
RST38hn900s I mean13:00
pupniki dont hack and trash systems13:00
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RST38heh13:00
RST38hthey would probably find out when shipping anyway13:00
pupnikyou tell the planet about the bug, but not the store?13:00
pupnikyea13:00
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mgedminhm13:00
* SpeedEvil checks order status again.13:01
SpeedEvilnope13:01
SpeedEvil(nokia.co.uk, on the 20th)13:01
RST38hWeird13:02
RST38hWell, I had FN account for years, but not the Pro one. Does it make a difference?13:03
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mgedmin250.00 EUR NOKIA ITALIA13:13
lbt_Jaffa: apparently they don't come in pink13:14
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waz2bbl13:14
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Jaffalbt_: tart13:15
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pupnik30%13:18
viqSpeedEvil, johnx - thank you. It's a bit of a shame it does not have compass, it is useful for the Augmented Reality apps that I would like to have a look at...13:21
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pupnikyes, extrrnal magnets and gyros for you13:23
mgedmina compass would be fun13:25
pupnikyeah the a.r. apps are going to have a lot of bling for kids i think13:27
pupnikmaybe a new generation of computer games13:27
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woglindejo pupnik btw.13:30
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viqI just like the idea of them, without any practical usage yet. Though I guess say geocaching could get a new level of fun, for example.13:32
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zaheerma compass would be useful just so I could check here qibla is wherever i am in the world13:35
zaheerms/here/where/13:35
infobotzaheerm meant: a compass would be useful just so I could check where qibla is wherever i am in the world13:35
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kirmayet to receive device service schematics, but I'd say it's far from impossible that there would be place on the circuit board for a 3D compass chip13:39
kirmathere's a vacant spot on at least some eseries nokia phones13:39
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kirmadoesn't exactly mean it's typical user-implementable extra feature, but still...13:40
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kirmaI doubt that especially the metallic backplate of the slide mechanism would be... ehm, should I say a "challenge" for compass precision.13:42
kirmaand there are couple magnetic locking mechanisms on the device, too.13:43
kirmaif it were a single-block device with no moving parts except the keys it'd be much easier.13:43
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viqaren't there metallic andoid phones with compass? Or the iThing?13:45
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kirmaI wonder if those devices actually perform sneaky auto-calibration on basis of GPS while on the move13:46
Mekwon't any phone with multiple radios have all kinds of metallic shielding...13:46
kirmawell, I believe there are parts with differing amounts of effect to the surrounding magnetic field13:47
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kirmastill, one can't really assume that measurement of earth's magnetic field would be a triviality when the sensor is inside a device that has magnetically active materials...13:52
* viq nods13:53
viqThough the AR apps have such drool-worthy possibilities, that I keep wishing ;)13:53
kirmaI keep wondering about GPS-assisted autocalibration, anyway13:54
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kirmaactually gps+accelerometer13:55
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viqYeah, though not quite useful for "I stand right here and would like to know where I am and which way am I looking"13:57
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alterego500 GBP14:02
alteregoI can't believe I spent all that on a phone.14:02
lardmanbetter than on a pair of tyres14:02
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kynkythe £250 deal was sweet though for n90014:03
lardmankynky: is that in the UK?14:03
kynkyyep14:03
alteregoSweet for those who got it.14:03
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alteregoCrappy karma14:03
alteregoI guess I have been pretty quiet though14:03
alteregoI didn't even know the device programme had taken place until yesterday.14:04
alteregoI was well annoyed.14:04
alteregoBut then I thought, meh, I want it.14:04
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alteregoI can make 100 by selling my N95 8G ^.^14:06
alteregoI might sell my N96 too ..14:06
alteregoYeah, if I sell both of those through fonebank, I get 250 quid,14:06
kirmaviq: what I meant is that it'd calibrate the compass value correction matrix (or whatever) by figuring out where north should be according to gps+accelerometer over time, and from these multiple samples make the correction data14:07
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lbt_I've seen some UK deals @ free + 18month £30 contract14:07
kirmaalterego: credit card has been actually charged or why such an outburst now? ;)14:08
viqoh. but you still would need some compass to be present14:08
lardmanlbt_: yeah14:08
kirmaviq: of course.14:09
alteregoI habe a contract already14:09
alterego18 month, expires dec next year14:09
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alteregoBesides, getting a contract, hyou end up paying full price regardless.14:11
SpeedEvilkirma: you essentially can't do that14:12
SpeedEvilkirma: the accellerometer provides no heading information unless you have it clamped into a car14:12
lardmanwell if you need a £20 data contract, paying an extra £10/month for 18 months makes it reasonably cheap14:12
SpeedEvilkirma: And that is because there is a specific relation there between lateral accelleration, and turning14:12
SpeedEvilkirma: have the device on a table. Now, spin it about its axis.14:13
alteregoYeah, I like my contract14:13
SpeedEvilkirma: 'down' always points the same way. The accellerometers have a constant output.14:13
alteregoHeh14:13
SpeedEvilviq: yeah14:13
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kirmaspeedevil: I know that part. but you can measure direction of constant movement from GPS, and under good conditions, you can assume that in this situation, acceleration on device generally points the way of gravity... and you can try to guess on which situations the device is actually pointing towards the direction of movement14:21
kirmareading of magnetometer should be even on the worst conditions somewhat trustable14:21
SpeedEvilkirma: The accellerometers are really quite bad though.14:22
SpeedEvilkirma: anything that relies on several integrations is basically going to completely fail.14:22
kirmait's really a control system with three instruments with weaknesses and strengths for each of them (weakness of magnetometer is that they don't tend to have good calibration in such an environment)14:23
SpeedEvilThree instruments?14:24
RST38hAh, the iPhone developers thread is back!14:24
kirmagps receiver, accelerometer and magnetometer (each supplying multiple independent readings of course)14:24
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SpeedEvilThere is no magnetometer.14:25
kirmawell. I meant that *if* there were a magnetometer, its autocalibration would be interesting...14:25
RST38hWith a helpful comment from some expert that porting QT to iPhones will encourage cross-platform development between iPhone and Maemo!14:25
SpeedEvilAnd yes, you can use the accellerometer to guess - but this is no better than assuming the device is horizontal when the user is interacting with it.14:25
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kirmasupplanting it with gps+accelerometer alone is certainly going to fail.14:25
javispedroRST38h: fun times ahead!14:26
RST38hAs Slashdot calls it "insightful" (sic)14:26
kirmascenery recognition is closest thing to what could replace it14:26
SpeedEvilThe accellerometers add almost nothing to the magnetometer - other than simply supplying a 'down' reference - which is vital14:26
kirmaperforming hough transforms and magic hashes and stuff on the surroundings on camera...14:26
SpeedEvilThe amount of data you can extract about the heading from them is almost zero regretfully.14:26
SpeedEvilThe camera is probably indeed a better source.14:26
kirmayeah, actually camera may be pretty interesting source of information for relation of direction of movement and direction of camera14:27
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kirmadifference between those, I mean14:27
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SpeedEvilNeeds a lot of CPU and power though.14:28
SpeedEvilWhich is annoying.14:28
kirmaand with more interesting world-description, recognising objects on the view for getting the idea where it's pointing14:28
kirmathere's no point for running augmented reality when user is not looking at the display, though.14:29
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kirmathe hough transform etc kind of trickery might be interesting to tinker though.14:29
SpeedEvilkirma: Sure there is. Audio, vibration cues14:29
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kirmaor feature tracking while pointing a phone in a car to non-driving direction14:30
SpeedEviltodo: buy gifts for xxx.14:30
SpeedEvilLookup demographic of xxx from contact details, find likely vendors for gifts, vibrate as you go past14:30
kirmaspeedevil: well, you have to have something to see for the device... which means it's probably going to be on users' hand or view, anyway.14:31
viqSpeedEvil: though for that part you don't need direction (compass)14:32
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* javispedro understood "OpenSUSE Build Service" as "Open source your butt service"14:32
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Stskeepsow14:34
Stskeeps:P14:34
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Doni^hello people14:35
viqjavispedro: there's a saying, "the hungry think of the bread" ;)14:35
javispedroheh14:35
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javispedrooh hi Sts14:38
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javispedroStskeeps: btw, wouldn't you know where all those changes to the Maemo clutter-0.8 src come from?14:38
javispedrosome of them are in quilt form but the rest ....14:38
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Stskeepsjavispedro: checkout the gitorious repo?14:38
javispedroStskeeps: ta! so they all come from Nokia itself.14:41
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woglindere14:41
javispedroin some aspects the patches do help14:42
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javispedroStskeeps: and I found the blue colors bug doesn't come from Nokia, but from upstream clutter itself -- the workaround I uploaded to bmo patches around "another" Nokia bug that causes the faulty clutter code to be used when it shouldn't14:43
Stskeeps:nod:14:43
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kynkywhy does nearly every review on the n900 have to say this is no iphone killer, saying every thing the n900 can do that the iphone doesnt, isnt important or useful14:46
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* Stskeeps just plain loves his n900.14:46
hrwkynky: if I will write n900 review then I will not mention iphone even14:46
kynkyhrw, :)14:47
zashwhy does *every* phone review compare everything to the f'in iphone14:47
woglindehi hrw14:48
hrwzash: maybe they think that readers use iphones14:48
SpeedEviln900 has 'no' apps.14:48
SpeedEvilATM14:48
zashlots of reviews i've read latley mention the word "iphone" more often than the thing they review14:48
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hrwmy total use of iphone since it was released is still less then 30 minutes14:48
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zashand what's with the OMG, APPS!!! GOTTA CATCH EM' ALL!14:48
zashs/CATCH/BUY/14:49
infobotzash meant: and what's with the OMG, APPS!!! GOTTA BUY EM' ALL!14:49
zashinfobot: AWESOME!14:49
infobotrumour has it, awesome is a synonym of cheese.14:49
zashhahahah14:49
kynkyhrw , thats more than me14:49
SpeedEvilA lot of apps is a plus for a platform.14:49
SpeedEvilLook at the original palm.14:49
kynkywith a decent browser, you can use plenty of webapps14:50
zashwith a decent x-terminal and ssh, you can reboot your webserver!14:50
kynkyzash, ++14:50
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SpeedEvilThe one problem I have with the n900 is that the keyboard is going to make nethack tough.14:51
zashand who cares if n900 won't kill the iphone, it's like "will linux kill windows"14:51
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muep_it's generally better if competing products don't kill each other, or just one of them14:52
mgedminwill toyota kill general motors?14:52
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VDVsxandre__, Is there a way to Cc a bug without making 'noise' ?14:53
andre__nope :)14:53
andre__that's up to the settings of each person him/herself14:53
VDVsxagrrr14:53
zashmgedmin: will Volvo kill Ford?14:53
kynkyiphone never intrested me, so was never an option14:53
aquatixbetter compare the n900 with the motorola droid or something14:54
mgedminiphone legitimized the large touchscreen concept in a phone, which is good14:54
mgedminsort of like java legitimized garbage collection and virtual machines in a mainstream language14:54
tKMFDMiphone not only didn't interest me. all apple products are on a 'never going to buy' list because of vendor lock-in14:54
hrwkynky: webapps == costs for data transfer14:55
tKMFDMn900 is a tablet. if you don't have an unlimited or as good as unlimited dataplan it probably isn't the phone/mid for you14:55
hrwtKMFDM: it depends on use14:56
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hrwtKMFDM: with my current phone (where I do mail, rare web, nearly no im) I use less then 20MB/month14:57
tKMFDMexactly my point. if that is the primary way you use your phone I question whether you are going to get 430 euros worth of value out of an n90014:57
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hrwtKMFDM: 430? I paid 250€14:58
woglindere speedevil14:58
tKMFDMI assume you bought it with a contract14:58
hrwtKMFDM: n900? no, with discount14:58
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tKMFDMwhat discount?14:58
woglindehigh karma14:59
kynky3 x 15% + £50 cashback14:59
woglindehrw how many apps you uploaded to maemo?14:59
hrwwoglinde: none14:59
woglindebaha14:59
woglindesystem suckz14:59
woglinde*g*14:59
hrwwoglinde: its by my blog posts and bugs posted14:59
hrwtKMFDM: >200 karma one15:00
woglindehrw I uploaded 3 apps and have karma 13 because of some mails15:00
woglindeso the system suckz15:00
hrwwoglinde: many complain15:00
woglindejupp15:00
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lopzhi :)15:10
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Stskeepsmorning qwerty1215:10
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vesalocation fix member 'time' is not a unix timestamp?15:10
qwerty12Hiya, Stskeeps15:10
woglindehi qwerty15:11
qwerty12Hullo, woglinde15:11
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javispedroVDVsx: there's a way to add oneself to a bug's CC list without much noise: vote for it and configure bugzilla to cc you of bugs you've voted on15:13
RST38hBada developer blog site has an icon with two nooses.15:14
RST38hWhat would that mean?15:14
Stskeepsyou'll want to hang yourself after using their SDK15:14
Stskeepsat least they're honest about it.15:14
* mgedmin kinda wishes Bada was hosted under the .ss domain15:15
javispedroyou'll want to hang yourself and someone else15:16
RST38h"Bring a friend"?15:17
RST38hmgedmin: Samsung has got its own domain now?15:17
qwerty12You'll want to hang the Scratchbox developers and the Bada developers, at the same time15:17
b-man17lol15:18
* RST38h won't comment on the imagery at the Symbian site15:18
Stskeepsyeah, that one looks like a mental asylum15:18
RST38hMental asylum after a mushroom hunting trip...15:19
javispedroyou mean "this" http://www.symbian.org/ imagery?15:20
Stskeepsmm mushrooms15:21
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javispedrois that a banana?15:21
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qwerty12That logo on the "Coolest Apps" section is almost reminiscent of the Microsoft Office 2000 logo15:23
ccooke_javispedro: ... that is ... wow. What the hell were they smoking?15:24
javispedrobananas, mushrooms, or office logos. decide by yourself :)15:24
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LeoDhaha that's awesome15:24
qwerty12Maybe those pencils symbolise what you will be wanting to sodomise yourself with after viewing the site...15:25
woglindehm anyone knows if autobuilders are x86 machine?15:26
Corsacthere are raids of n900 chained, building all day long15:26
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Corsacand near the end of the hall there are still some n770, trying to keep up15:26
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crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, Jaffa, around?15:28
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Jaffacrashanddie_: yup15:31
Jaffacrashanddie_: In the shitty business class lounge at Stockholm Arlanda15:31
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KhertanHi !15:32
woglindehi khertan15:32
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zaheermJaffa, at least you got in a lounge :)15:32
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* Khertan is loosing his time recreating a hildon.FileChooserDialog showing file extension ...15:38
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GAN900crashanddie_, ?15:39
pupnikany hope to get that upstreamed Khertan ?15:39
pupnikah no, nevermind15:39
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Khertanpupnik: ? what the FileChooserDialog ?15:40
pupnikyeah15:40
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amit_usualis there a way to test accelerometer on maemo sdk15:40
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Khertani was near to be insult when i ask for showing file extension15:40
Khertanas everyone think that user is dumb and should not see extension15:41
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Khertanpupnik: clearly ... it ll be not upstreamed15:41
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pupnikpupstream it pls :)15:46
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hrwwoglinde: add 'uname -a' to build output, send package for build and then check logs?15:52
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gourhi, i'm looking for some linux-based smart-phone...openmoko and freerunner does not look as having stable solution (aka: software & hardware). i read some reviews about android platform as well as webos used in palm's pre...however, i have impression that maemo platform (and something like new nokia n900) seems as the most open and stable platform. am i right?16:06
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Corsacexcept n900 isn't yet available, yes, you're right16:07
woglindehi fiferboy16:08
woglindeCorsac read the annoucment16:08
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cehtehhi gour :)16:08
gourcehteh: ohh, hello16:08
gourcannot escape from cehteh :-)16:09
cehtehyou stalking me!16:09
Corsacwoglinde: define “the announcement”? :)16:09
woglindegour 98,9% is free in the n90016:09
woglindehttp://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2009/11/houston-we-have-take-off.html16:09
woglindehttp://maemo-freak.com/index.php/miscellaneous/1303-nokia-starts-shipping-its-first-linux-based-smartphone-nokia-n900-16:09
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Corsacyes, they are “shipping”16:10
gourwoglinde: that's free-enough...i prefer some open-source platform, but i do not have time to hack on openmoko & FR either16:10
Corsacnow, they are not yet “available”, like, there's no shop where I can do something else than a pre-order16:10
Corsacwhich is “available in few days”16:10
woglindecorsac bah16:11
fiferboyhi woglinde16:11
cehtehmaemo is prolly the most open platform which is currently used .. counting openmoko as dead :(16:11
SpeedEvilIt's not dead!16:11
SpeedEvilIt's pining for the fjoords!16:12
Corsacwoglinde: well, for me it /does/ make a diffrence, like, having the device in my hand or not16:12
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GeneralAntillesgour, N900 is exactly what you're looking for.16:12
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GeneralAntillesCorsac, even if you had a tracking number it still wouldn't be in your hand.16:12
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CorsacGeneralAntilles: if it was available, I could go to a shop a buy it directly :)16:13
GeneralAntillesCorsac, whatever, dude, a few days aren't going to kill you.16:13
CorsacGeneralAntilles: sure not16:13
cehtehwell in a few days to weeks, that will be the case16:14
CorsacGeneralAntilles: and tbh I'm not even sure I'll jump on the first (real) offers16:14
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CorsacGeneralAntilles: I just wanted to precise that he couldn't go *now* and buy one16:14
cehtehits shipping already, so first all preordered devices i guess16:14
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SpeedEvilCorsac: Sure he can.16:14
SpeedEvilCorsac: I bet that a large fraction of devs would part with their n900 for $1000016:15
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CorsacSpeedEvil: good point :)16:15
cehtehsince shipping was delayed by software and not hardware issues, i guess the have a quite big stock to roll out, but well i dont know16:15
cehtehcu16:16
gourGeneralAntilles: i've to check what it brings in comparison with e.g. n80016:16
GeneralAntillesgour, infinitely better hardware16:16
derfWhere infinity is roughly 2.16:17
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pupnikbl-5j charge 0 to 90% in 3 and a half hours - normal?16:17
pupnikon this accupower station16:18
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gouranyone using claws mailer on maemo?16:20
* Stskeeps does on his n81016:21
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gourhow it works?16:22
Stskeepsgood16:22
gouri'm thinking that something like n900, could serve my purpose instead of buying netbook16:23
hrwgour: on n900 it will be different then on n81016:23
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gourhrw: n810 is more tablet than16:24
goursmart-phone?16:24
hrwgour: and has bigger screen then n90016:24
hrwand OS not finger optimised16:25
gourhmm, that's good to know16:25
gourhrw: so n810 is closer to netbook device?16:26
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Suurorcawhen I first saw n810 I was sooo  mad it didn't have a phone16:26
Suurorcaalmost bought one nevertheless16:26
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hrwI first complained a lot and then bought16:27
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kynky mid/netbook/umpc/notebook, diffirentiated by power and size?16:27
gourand what about today?16:27
kynkyi guess if n900 is powerful enough, why do you need anything more powerful :)16:28
SuurorcaDeciding n900 against a netbook can be really hard.16:29
hrwdepends on use I think16:29
kynkyscreensize vs portability16:29
viqa bit smaller resolution on a lot smaller screen and a much smaller keyboard ;)16:29
hrwthere are things which netbook can do and n900 cannot and vice versa16:29
SuurorcaIf the primary use is 5 hour writing sessions and watching random movies, netbook is a clear winner16:29
SuurorcaSay, long commuting trips by train16:30
kynkynokia 3g booklet vs nokia n90016:30
LeoDcan you put a netbook into your pocket?16:30
hrwyou can connect netbook to 24" fullHD lcd and use that fullHD resolution. n900 do not give you that16:30
viqLeoD: depends on pockets ;)16:30
viqI've seen people carry netbooks in pockets16:30
SuurorcaBut if your are away from your laptop/office computer for max 30 mins and just want somethjing to play with in the middle (like me), then n900 is the clear winner16:31
hrwSuurorca: good said16:31
kynkyif tv supports playing hd content via usb, you can have media on n90016:31
kynkymplayer/vlc on n900 is more than enough for me16:31
Suurorcaor not. usb host support is kind questionable on n900...16:32
Suurorcakind of*16:32
gourwell, i prefer to the most of work on my desktop machine...the portable one would server me for checking/sending mail, light browsing, working with contacts/calendar etc.16:32
kynkyn900 can act as a mass storage device16:32
gourno need/time for watching movies, playing music...16:32
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gourof course, n900 would replace phone as well16:33
kynkyhttp://nokiaexperts.com/nokia-n900-tips-bluetooth-keyboard-external-display/16:34
kynkynokia 3g booklet with bt headset can do that too :)16:34
SuurorcaThe booklet if way overpriced, imo16:35
Khertan<Suurorca> If the primary use is 5 hour writing sessions and watching random movies, netbook is a clear winner <<< haha16:36
SuurorcaKhertan: I never said it was THE best solution ;)16:36
Khertanwith a 15kg battery ...16:36
kynkywhat is the best solution?16:36
Khertann900 :)16:37
kynky:)16:37
Suurorca. . . quit trolling ;p16:37
Khertani use it for coding ... watching movie in train16:37
Khertan2 hours the morning16:37
Khertanand 2 hour the evening16:37
* kynky wants to use n900 for coding and watching movies16:37
javispedrohelp! my multitasking n900 is not capable of running 6 bloatware-laden flash games at the same time!16:37
SuurorcaActually, for movies use on longer trips I'd still take my bigger laptop. At least all the trains here have powert outlets ;p16:37
javispedrowill they fix that in a sw upgrade?16:37
Khertanso 4 hours by day + using arround 2 hours in the rest of the day16:38
kynkySuurorca, wish i had rdered an extra battery16:38
kynkyordered*16:38
Khertanjavispedro: are you kidding ?16:38
javispedroKhertan: yes :)16:38
fiferboyI can't update the firmware on my N900 (with NSU) without a SIM!?16:38
Khertanjavispedro: because it can :)16:38
SuurorcaI used to carry one around with me. Until I once dropped it.16:38
Khertanfiferboy: really ?16:39
MGic_question about N900 FM transmitter, can you output all sounds through it or is it up to the application to support it or not?16:39
Khertanwhat is nsu ?16:39
kynkyyou can only play nokia theme over fm trasmitter16:39
* gour thinks about 10" devices when speaking about netbook, not those requiring 15kg batts16:39
KhertanMGic_: it s output music, film, and ring when receiving call16:39
KhertanMGic_: so i ll say yes16:39
SuurorcaNokia Software Updater (NSU) at the moment requires all phones to have sim in16:39
fiferboyIt brings up a "Can't find SIM" screen.  Then if I cancel that it still tries to do it, but gives a "Unable to retreive device information"16:39
fiferboyBut I don't have a SIM.  My N900 is a mobile computer, not a phone :)16:40
Khertangour: 10" use also 12kg battery not better16:40
Suurorcaor at least did 6 months ago, which was when I last tried using it16:40
kynkyits a mid16:40
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gourKhertan: :-)16:40
Khertanfiferboy: how are you updating ?16:40
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kynkydoes maemo flasher require a sim ?16:40
Khertanflasher3.5 ?16:40
Suurorcaanyway, just use maemo-flasher16:40
fiferboyUsing the Nokia Software Update tool (in windows)16:40
Khertanah ...16:41
fiferboyIs the image available now?16:41
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Khertandon't know16:41
Khertanbut i ve one ... which isn't public yet16:41
Khertanand isn't a final16:41
MGic_Khertan : ok16:41
kynkyim guessing you shouldnt have said that, lol16:41
lardmanKhertan: your todo list app is broken!16:41
Khertanlardman:  ?16:41
SuurorcaBy the way, flashing a prototype might brick it.16:41
Khertanlardman: under fremantle ?16:41
lardmanpython thing, deps missing16:42
Khertanlardman: under fremantle all my app is broken16:42
lardmanah ok16:42
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lardmanand who wrote zToDo, that's also broken due to no pysqlite16:42
Khertanlardman: be carreful when installing things from extras-devel16:42
lardmancan't you just change the dep?16:43
Khertanmy priority right now is to finish rewrite of PyGTKEditor for fremantle16:43
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lardmanok fair enough16:43
Khertanbut i m loosing time doing stupid things like rewrite the wheel for a file chooser dialog16:44
Khertanas the fremantle one do not display extension16:44
lardmananyone recommend a todo list which has tiered todos, i.e. things that rely on other things?16:44
lardmanKhertan: no worries16:44
Khertan:)16:44
Khertanbut ... 2s i ll try if it s just a depandancy pb16:44
fiferboylardman: How's it going?16:45
lardmanfiferboy: busy, you?16:45
lardmandecorating house, looking to sell16:46
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KhertanImportError: No module named glade16:46
fiferboylardman: Busy.  fiferbaby 2.0 was launched yesterday at 5 AM16:46
Khertan;(16:46
lardmanlots do do at work too16:46
lardmanfiferboy: congrats!16:46
lardmanhow's fiferwife?16:46
fiferboyThanks.  fiferwife is good, resting up now in hospital16:46
lardmanah, so you have some fifersleep16:47
woglindefiferboy grats16:47
Stskeepsfiferboy: congratulations :)16:47
fiferboywoglinde, Stskeeps:  Thanks!16:47
Stskeepsfiferboy: boy or girl?16:47
fiferboylardman: Well, fiferbaby 1.3 isn't really a great sleeper, so I get to deal with that16:47
fiferboyStskeeps: Second boy.  We are a solid majority in the house16:48
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, ah, congrats!16:48
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fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Thanks!16:48
fiferboyMy Maemo contributions might slow down for a bit now...16:51
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GeneralAntilleslol, now Quim wants "http://maemo.org"16:53
alteregoWhat for?16:53
GeneralAntillesWhy don't we just quit the insanity and stick with "Extras" or "http://maemo.org Extras"16:53
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alteregoHeh16:54
alteregoI prefer "extras" over "Extras" :P16:54
GeneralAntillesalterego, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=330716:54
povbotBug 3307: "maemo Extras" in Application manager should be "Extras"16:54
alteregoYeah16:54
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, ping?16:54
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, pong16:55
alteregoHeh16:55
alteregoShouldn't it me "maEmo.org Extras"?16:55
alteregoI think "3rd Party Applications" would be better :P16:56
GeneralAntillesUgh16:56
GeneralAntillesThat string already appears way too much.16:56
Suurorca"myEmo" :)16:56
lardmanAnyone got any ideas re ToDo lists?16:57
SuurorcaMaybe "Communoty Applications" - if it has to be changed that is16:58
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kalikianatoliLet's go for org.maemo.extras to comply with dbus specs16:58
kalikianatoli:P16:58
GeneralAntillesI say we call it, "Shit that'll break your shit"16:59
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fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Too much shit16:59
mikkov__Quim wants "maemo.org"17:00
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zaheermmaemo.org Extras ?17:00
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: ping17:00
myself123hi guys, i see that nokia has released the n900.. is there anyone who has it ?17:00
SpeedEvilmyself123: for low values of released.17:01
mikkov__is the name change about localization of "Extras" being too hard or what?17:01
SpeedEvilmyself123: they may be shipping to distributors - not to users17:01
GeneralAntilleszaheerm, no, just "http://maemo.org"17:01
GeneralAntillesmikkov__, I've seen no justification as of yet.17:01
SpeedEvilmyself123: 0 people have sayd they have had a shipping notification AIUI. And some in here have prerrelease hardware17:01
mikkov__GeneralAnttilles: he is suggesting about localization work17:02
mikkov__but not directly saying any reason17:02
GeneralAntillesmikkov__, initially there was no justification offered beyond "We've taken a public issue and had a closed internal discussion, now we're rendering you our decision."17:03
myself123SpeedEvil: oh.. :(  i don't know if it'll be a nice phone or not :) like if the phone is multitouch, if it's fluid and if it works good with kde (sync and stuff like that)..oh..and also about applications... as a linux system i think i could install everything, but i never had a similar phone.. i'm stick with my old nokia 6680 :)17:03
SpeedEvilIt's not multitouch.17:03
SpeedEvilThere are currently few applications, but you can run - with some caveats - random X stuff.17:03
moo__myself123: it does work with KDE, you can run KDE on it ;)17:03
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moo__(if you are into mashochism....)17:04
GeneralAntillesKDE + multitouch on a 3.5" screen == fail.17:04
SpeedEvilLack of fluidness has not been a complaint :)17:04
mikkov__GeneralAnttilles: Quim says "maemo.org" not "http://maemo.org"17:04
* Stskeeps notes the weather outside is freaky. got really really dark and now a lot of dark birds flying about.17:04
* SpeedEvil tries to connect to finger://maemo.org and fails17:04
* SpeedEvil is confused.17:04
myself123moo__: yeah, i saw that on the kde planet :) but if i'd like to stick with maemo, do you know if it's possible to sync it with kdepim (email, contacts, todo, events, etc)?17:04
GeneralAntillesmikkov__, does this come out as a URL? maemo.org17:04
SpeedEvilmikkov_no17:05
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: no17:05
GeneralAntillesmikkov__, OK, my client's not being too smart for its own good, so what are you responding to?17:05
moo__myself123: sync over bluetooth and usb using syncml is available17:05
moo__myself123: standard17:05
moo__myself123: so "yes"17:05
mikkov__GeneralAntilles: about Extras repository name17:06
GeneralAntillesmikkov__, right, I know he's proposing http://maemo.org, so why are you putting the http:// in front of it for me?17:06
myself123moo__: mm..ok.. :)17:07
mikkov__GeneralAntilles: he is proposing just "maemo.org", no http:// anywhere17:08
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GeneralAntillesmikkov__, right, I get that, what are you responding to that makes you think that I think there's an http:// on it? :)17:08
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* GeneralAntilles is really confused.17:08
frals[15:53:41] <GeneralAntilles> lol, now Quim wants "http://maemo.org"17:08
fralsid guess17:08
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, damnit, my client IS being too goddamn smart for its own good.17:09
Stskeepsat least it didn't uppercase maemo.org17:09
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SpeedEvilyeah - many clients will highlight http://foo.org/ but not foo.org or foo.org, foo.org.17:09
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wazdBack17:10
GeneralAntillesmikkov__, sorry, this is what I get for using a GUI client.17:10
Stskeepswb wazd :)17:10
kynkylol17:10
mikkov__GeneralAntilles: was checking the backlog for the third time :)17:11
GeneralAntillesApple is too goddamn smart for their own good.17:12
GeneralAntilles"Smart links"17:12
GeneralAntillesGrr17:13
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: pong17:15
GeneralAntillesOK, turned it off.17:15
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GeneralAntillesmikkov__, "maemo.org" should now be "maemo.org" :roll:17:15
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mikkov__GeneralAntilles: looks good :)17:17
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: got a source for where the idea of 80% oss, 20% closed comes from?17:23
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, there's a couple quotes from Quim on Talk and maybe the lists.17:24
GeneralAntillesMaybe Bugzilla, too, but I don't have any links handy.17:24
andre__page 4 of https://maemo.org/static/4/4c0c9590887911dd804ae36efcafed98ed98_how_nokia_approaches_open_source_for_maemo.pdf for example17:24
Stskeepsk17:25
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javispedroI guess Sts found out is 5% oss 95% closed or the like and we've all been living a lie ;)17:27
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andre__harhar17:27
wazdStskeeps: I had a vision17:27
wazdStskeeps: now I need 6 hands to draw all this stuff  :D17:28
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RST38hjavis: I guess Nokia is supposed to send ninjas to him now17:28
RST38handre: Any word from Ferenc et al on those weird votes?17:29
javispedrono need, just carefully execute order66 hidden deeply within bme code that initiates liion battery self destruct17:29
RST38hjavis: This assumes Sts keeps his n900 close to his body17:29
andre__nope17:29
RST38hjavis: I wonder if he still does that, after watching that maemoproject promo though17:30
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javispedrowho does? I now personally even keep an eye on my N810, even if N810's can only transform into a half-sized leprechaun instead of insane human.17:31
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GiantTalkingCowThat'd be even scarier.17:32
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wazdMy n800 can transform in that small bear from episode VI :D17:33
wazdEwok :D17:33
GiantTalkingCowI still have my n800 (got it as a gift). It's not bad, but I really wish there was something with a better UI for it. The Android port's flopped, however, so...17:34
GeneralAntillesThe Maemo 4 UI was great for its time.17:35
wazdDiablo ui is not that bad17:35
GiantTalkingCowMaybe not, but I'm not a fan of it.17:35
feriRST38h: i will check and reset the votes, but i'm still fixing the registration stuff for the Barcelona gathering17:36
GeneralAntillesGiantTalkingCow, why?17:37
javispedrothe diablo ui is great and I would have a hard time debating anyone with that previously common "Maemo usability peaked around 3.0"17:37
wazdFeri: plleeeease! Fix that spam! I surrender!17:37
andre__oops. feri is around i realize. sorry, just sent you an email too :-/17:38
feriwazd: fixing the component to send "meaningful" mails (as it was discussed on the list) will take a little longer though.17:38
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GiantTalkingCowGeneralAntilles: A few reasons... one of them is the limited ability to customize the menu and icons (what's shown, what's not), also, the sidebar's a bit big for my taste, the default keyboard layout's a pain (the language toggle key right next to shift has caused all sorts of problems)...17:38
wazdGiantTalkingCow: personal meu17:39
GiantTalkingCow...the file browser's too limited, the widgets could use better color differentiation...17:39
GeneralAntillesGiantTalkingCow, sound nitpicky.17:40
GeneralAntilless17:40
GiantTalkingCowwazd: I know, I'm talking about my problems with the default setup, since GeneralAntilles asked.17:40
GiantTalkingCowWell, I happen to think that small touches often add up, and can make or break a UI. It's why I consider Windows to be such a pain to use.17:40
javispedrothe sidebar's gone, the virtual stylus keyboard is gone, the file browser's even more limited and the widgets are now all black.17:40
GeneralAntillesNothing's "small" about Windows' UI issues.17:40
wazdGiantTalkingCow: no, I don't beleive you, now you die! :D17:40
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RST38hferi: Can I ask for something real simple?17:41
feriRST38h: yes17:41
GeneralAntillesHow about something fake simple?17:41
GiantTalkingCowGeneralAntilles: Well, it has major UI problems too, but in addition to that, it has about 100 minor quirks which added up make me want to shoot whoever the head of UI design is over there.17:41
RST38hferi: Could you simply disable anonymous votes, at least for now? This will also prevent people from voting many times17:41
GeneralAntillesGiantTalkingCow, the "major" issues would've been more effective at illustrating your point than the minor ones you listed. ;)17:42
RST38hferi: I.e. only registered maemo.org users would be able to vote for now, at least until the system is made sane and idiot proof17:42
wazdGiantTalkingCow: since when windows is a pain  to use?17:42
feriRST38h: yes, I will try. right after the Barcelona thingy..17:42
RST38hThanks17:42
ShadowJKExample of awesome features of the diablo UI that some other manufacturers get wrong: whilst typing on the onscreen keyboard you can see the text as it is being typed17:42
GiantTalkingCowYes, but I don't have major issues with the Diablo UI, only a bunch of minor ones that really start to bug me over time.17:42
GiantTalkingCowwazd: Since I first tried it back in 1990.17:43
RST38hShadowJK: This comes at a cos17:43
RST38ht17:43
wazdGiantTalkingCow: ooooh17:43
ShadowJKRST38h, constant resizing of apps or fullscreen keyboard, yeah17:43
RST38hShadowJK: Your app window becomes halved, and you have to support one more window layout for that17:43
wazdGiantTalkingCow: now I see :D17:43
RST38hShadowJK: This is easily solvable though17:43
ShadowJKRST38h, but you can see what you type in fullscreen too17:43
ShadowJKit's just not in the app, but you can still see it17:43
RST38hShadowJK: The solution will look...mm...bold, so I guess that is why nobody uses it17:44
* javispedro patiently watches locals race to get the N90017:44
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RST38hShadowJK: Just overlay semitransparent full screen keyboard and be done with it17:44
* GeneralAntilles really hates Forum Nokia.17:44
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wazdGiantTalkingCow: things changed since 199017:44
RST38hShadowJK: This way you see what you type, there is no need to resize the window, and you get full sized keyboard17:44
javispedroGeneralAntilles: anything new?17:45
ShadowJKSmartQ original firmware (up to v5?) has opaque onscreen keyboard that doesn't move app window away or resize it, so it ends up covering the app, and you can't see what you're typing ;p17:45
RST38hGeneral: You have been living pretty comfortable life if FN can make you hate it =)17:45
javispedroI am waiting for anyone to get a FN email, but I guess even that is wishful thinking17:45
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timeless_mbpandre__: may i fix bug 6141?17:46
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6141 "Maemo Software" should be "Maemo Devices"17:46
GiantTalkingCowwazd: I know. And I've used every version since then (NT and home stuff) at one point or another. It still has a bad UI.17:46
ShadowJKWhen I discovered forum nokia I thought "awesome, actual information"17:46
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, http://www.andreagrandi.it/2009/11/12/questionsanswers-about-nokia-n900-and-discounted-device-program/ just reading that and becoming irritated.17:46
andre__timeless_mbp, oh yeah :)17:46
RST38hGeneral: Never tried to register for classes with UMD Mars system, never ordered an airplane ticket with Aeroflot's Sabre, I guess....17:46
* RST38h laughs maniacally17:46
wazdGiantTalkingCow: no it's not)17:46
GeneralAntillesRST38h, nope, Blackboard works pretty well and I don't have issues with US airline ticketing systems.17:47
ShadowJKnever tried to buy anything from Nokia online shop...17:47
pupnikBusinessweek, Oct. 28: "Nokia N900 Delay Highlights Maemo's Importance"  http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/europeinsight/archives/2009/10/nokia_n900_dela.html17:47
GiantTalkingCowwazd: What other OSes have you used over the years? I've used a bunch, and in general, the Windows UI just reeks of people who didn't pay attention while designing it. I'd take the RiscOS UI or the old Amiga UI over it any day.17:47
RST38hUS ticketing sometimes gets as bad though, depends on the airline17:47
javispedroNo VAT? that's illegal at best.17:47
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GeneralAntillesShadowJK, ordered my 5800 from them, it wasn't particularly obnoxious.17:48
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GeneralAntillesForum Nokia's process for the DDP has just been a long string of broken things.17:48
KhertanGeneralAntilles: just forgot the waranty question :)17:48
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, it's a minefield of javascript that makes firefox spam syntax error in the error log, and it doesn't work at all without the js17:48
wazdGiantTalkingCow: I've used none cause I'm pretty fine with Vista17:48
ShadowJKIt took me like an hour before I found a sequence of working buttons on various pages that took me to the goal17:48
Stskeepsjavispedro: between different EU countries, two companies, 0% VAT is fine17:48
Stskeepsyou pay VAT locally17:49
Stskeepsreverse charge17:49
javispedroGeneralAntilles: btw, thanks to you for the link and andrea for the blog post17:49
GeneralAntillesFirst they force you to make up a bunch of fake information because they didn't bother to spend any effort to make the registration system relevant17:49
javispedroStskeeps: "two companies"17:49
GiantTalkingCowwazd: Well then, I think that having used lots of different desktop UIs, I'm more qualified to make a judgement. If you can make the Vista UI work for you, good for you, then.17:49
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GeneralAntillesThen they wait a long time to notify anybody that anything is working17:49
wazdGiantTalkingCow: it surely has some 'annoyances' but nothing more17:49
GeneralAntillesforcing people to attempt re-sending emails and leaving them wondering what in the world is going on17:49
GiantTalkingCowwazd: To each his own, I suppose.17:50
GeneralAntillesThen the N900 appears on the eStore without any promised email to announce that17:50
wazdGiantTalkingCow: surely no reason to switch it17:50
javispedroGeneralAntilles: quim's "buy now!" didn't help.17:50
GeneralAntillesGoing through the ordering process they make you agree to an NDA that has zero relevance to you17:50
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wazdGiantTalkingCow: yeah, that's the point17:50
GeneralAntillesInform you that the devices have no warranty17:50
GeneralAntillesthen throw a flag with your credit card company because you're ordering overseas.17:51
GeneralAntillesBroken.17:51
javispedroyeah.17:51
Khertan[16:50] <GeneralAntilles> Going through the ordering process they make you agree to an NDA that has zero relevance to you <<< excuse me i m not a expert in english17:51
Stskeepsi'm still wondering if stskeeps on FN is mine.17:51
GeneralAntillesInterestingly, I've never had any issue ordering from overseas companies with that credit card before.17:52
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, you know, people celebrated when nokia bought symbian, because they figured nokia would be able to get the symbian people to progress to something more modern instead of the then used method of processing web forms by having a dedicated computer print them out in room A into a shoebox to be processed in room B, the result stored on a paper and sent/entered into db in room C17:52
RST38hGeneral: I wonder if our devices are actually covered by the warranty though17:52
wazdGeneralAntilles: I don't even have an option, so shut up and pay :D17:52
ShadowJKor atleast, that's what the evil rumour was17:52
GeneralAntillesRST38h, who the hell knows?17:52
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it's not like we can get a clear answer about any of this.17:52
feriRST38h: do you have the URL at hand where voting for your app happens?17:52
RST38hShadowJK: Well, Nokia succeeded in driving Symbian people to complete insanity. I *suspect* it is a progress17:52
RST38hferi: A moment17:53
FlandryI'm wondering about the accelerometer and its usage as an input device. Is there any way to get normalized/integrated/smoothed input from it without doing frequent polling directly? That seems to be a good way to kill the battery in general usage.17:53
ShadowJKRST38h, surely they were lunatics before?17:53
RST38hferi: I have got several such URL, do you need all or just the worst one?17:53
GeneralAntilleswazd, we could all be happy with shit if we only want to consider people that have it worse off then us, but then we'd all be living in shit and there'd never be any progress.17:53
ShadowJKWell in the age of DOS and OS/2 they were probably as sane as anyone else...17:53
RST38hShadowJK: Not sure17:53
feriRST38h: the worst pls17:53
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, put the IMEI into the Nokia Care warranty checking thingy online?17:54
GeneralAntillesSorry, Khertan, the stupid NDA that they make you agree to that's targeted companies, not individuals.17:54
* ShadowJK vaguely recalls there was one17:54
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, be nice to know BEFORE I spent the $370.17:54
ShadowJKmaybe it's gone now, like the battery authentication form :-(17:54
KhertanGeneralAntilles: yep17:54
pupnikthe charger seems to work nicely btw.17:55
javispedroStskeeps: "stskeeps" is not a valid user (in FN "Community")17:55
RST38hferi: For example http://maemo.org/midcom-permalink-ddd043b4c72f11de8395493ad81ece3fce3f  - at least 29 times since yesterday17:55
Stskeepslovely17:55
pupnikloading camera batt now17:55
GeneralAntillesExcept for being damn near impossible to plug in in the dark.17:55
Stskeepsthen -wtf- cant i register..17:55
feriRST38h: cheers17:55
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, we don't want your kind to have devices.17:55
* javispedro notes FN "community" is basically vBulletin + lifetype17:55
RST38hShadowJK: Oh, there is a web form where you can check for warranty?17:55
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RST38hjavis: Correct. And it is filled with poor disoriented developers who can't figure how to do this or that with Symbian17:56
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KhertanSorry, the username you gave was not found in our database. Please re-register or try again with another username.17:56
Khertangrrr17:57
RST38hShadowJK: Well, I think that until recently Symbian people were just greedy, lazy, and antisocial, building their inifinitely complex APIs in some nordic ivory tower17:57
ShadowJKrsalveti, there was one, at one point, one one of the nokia websites17:57
zaheer__fn is a lot less friendly to use than maemo.org17:57
ShadowJKrsalveti, sorry, that was to RST38h17:57
javispedroRST38h: when the  .txt file with the sdk release notes are more than 3 clicks away from the sdk download page, something is wrong with a site17:57
GeneralAntillesI'm betting there's no way EURO devices are getting repaired in the US.17:57
javispedroextra points if one of the pages you need to hop through is just a ".txt download now" page17:57
ShadowJKlol17:57
RST38hShadowJK: But ever since they went "toward open source", things took decidedly mental twist17:57
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javispedrozaheer__++17:58
RST38hGeneral: AFAIK, Nokia provides worldwide awarranty, but I may be wrong17:58
Khertansensitive case login17:58
Khertanlol17:58
GeneralAntillesRST38h, US devices don't have warranties in the EU and vice versa.17:59
RST38hHmm... weird17:59
Khertanabout fn ... it s funny to see that the n900 appear only after 5 refresh of the page :)17:59
RST38hThe N900 they send you IS going to be the same for EU or US though18:00
RST38hSame bands, same keyboard, etc18:00
zaheermthe imei and serial number databases will find you out :)18:00
RST38hNo, I mean, there are no technical difficulties in repairing it18:00
cehteheu has quite different warranty laws than us18:00
GeneralAntillesRST38h, that doesn't matter.18:01
suihkulokkiRST38h: differenty wifi bands18:01
GeneralAntillesThe EU people a pay premium for their consumer protection laws.18:01
cehtehand keyboard layouts are different18:01
RST38hsuihkulokki: Really? That is changed in these devices?18:01
cehtehyeah18:01
GeneralAntillesThe US people don't pay that, so they don't want EU people buying US devices and getting EU service.18:01
RST38hcenteh: No, same keyboard layout18:01
* javispedro finds n900 disappearead from estore and has heart attack. then notices he cleared his cookies :)18:01
RST38hjavis: The more interesting thing is that you can order more than one :)18:02
cehtehRST38h: for GB maybe .. but german and french might be different18:02
cehtehat least the one i ordered was announced as QWERTZ18:02
RST38hcenteh: DDP says they will send Euro1 devices, same US keyboard18:02
javispedroRST38h: also you can buy an overpriced N7518:02
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, that always cracks me up.18:02
RST38hjavis: Well, N900 will also become overpriced in 4-6 months18:02
RST38hjavis: So you are basically paying for quicker access18:03
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javispedrohttp://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Creating_Debian_packages_for_Maemo_Qt_applications_and_showing_in_the_application_menu18:04
* javispedro sighs18:04
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javispedrolearn how to build debian packages, the binary way!18:04
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tarilhi18:04
tarilI would like to ask about N900 development18:04
Stskeepsjavispedro: oh fuck no18:05
* RST38h does not like the default way either18:05
javispedro(aka [sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~] > dpkg-deb -b HelloWorldApplication )18:05
Stskeepsjavispedro: we need to raise this issue18:05
tarilis there any hardware specifik sdk for n900 under maemo (sensors, camera, etc)18:05
lbt_RST38h: I thought about ordering 2...18:05
Stskeepsjavispedro: that's just way too embarassing18:05
javispedroStskeeps: too late. it's todays featured article.18:05
Stskeepsthen to talk.* it is18:05
RST38hlbt: I see no practical use for two, one is enough18:05
Stskeeps:P18:05
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lbt_RST38h: you're not married then?18:06
lbt_or...18:06
lbt_cat tracker...?18:06
Stskeepsjavispedro: seriously, that is just encouraging bad practices18:06
RST38hlbt: My wife has a 580018:06
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lbt_javispedro: good catch.... tell Quim18:06
RST38hlbt: haven't got kids18:06
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RST38hlbt: s/kids/pets , two kids actually :)18:06
lbt_yeah, I wouldn't trust a kid with one18:07
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lbt_cat, sure.18:07
wazdOh. I have an idea for that MaeVoice stuff18:07
wazdNow I'll tell the truth bout nokia and community!)18:07
RST38hTHE UGLY TRUTH!18:07
javispedrohttp://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging_a_Qt_application18:07
RST38hThe Community is in Nokia's pay!18:07
javispedroso this is what happens when we have BOTH maemo.org and FN18:08
GeneralAntillesEhehe18:08
* GeneralAntilles wazd Hush.18:08
* RST38h suggests to disregard FN. 18:08
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javispedrowazd: don't listen those guys, they're all in Nokia's payroll, they have free N900s after all.18:08
zaheermnokia uk flagship store has nokia e72 on sale from tomorrow...18:08
lbt_Heh18:09
lbt_Offensive tag NOT added: diablo18:09
javispedrowazd: what's worse is that they even insert fake complains about nokia's behaviour18:09
RST38hFN has got a few uses, but not everything you find there has a reason to exist18:09
javispedroin this very channel18:09
GeneralAntilleslbt_, on FN?18:09
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lbt_I thought I'd at least tag it to be an old maemo18:09
wazdNo. Everything is cool!*      *-unless you're from russia18:09
lbt_yes18:09
lbt_on FM GeneralAntilles18:09
RST38hjavis: That is to look legit, no doubt18:09
GeneralAntilleslbt_, awesome.18:09
RST38hwazd: Didn't you have to learn that BEFORE having to deal with FN? =)18:10
* timeless_mbp sighs18:10
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timeless_mbpso... i should probably try to stage maemo18:10
javispedro"The proposed strategy does not use dh_make to create the basic debian package structure" -- why?18:10
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tarilCould someone anwser to my question?18:11
andre__taril, can you repeat it? :-)18:11
javispedrothe answer is "no", though.18:11
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tarilis there any hardware specifik sdk for n900 under maemo (sensors, camera, etc)18:12
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lbt_taril: no18:12
tarilthansk18:12
lbt_just the device18:12
tarilanw wont be? i dont know nokia"s pocitic18:12
tarilpolitic18:13
lbt_mmm, to be clear, the SDK allows you to develop SW which can access the device hardware18:13
tarilyes18:13
lbt_however, there's no HW environment to test/run/develop on which has the HW present (other than the device )18:14
javispedroStskeeps: either way, could you email quim about the FN .deb packaging issue? You'll have more .. er.. appropitate reasons than my "just sounds awful".18:14
lbt_I added "This article describes packaging a Qt application for Maemo2008 for the N8x0 tablets. The process for Fremantle/N900 is different. "18:15
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Stskeepsjavispedro: you are perfectly capable of doing so, or raise a bug on it18:16
javispedroguess that and the diablo UI screenshot will be enough to deter people.18:16
gouris there lot of work to port app for maemo-5/n900 ?18:16
timeless_mbpgour: from Atari 400?18:16
andre__gour, hard to generalize ;-)18:16
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gourtimeless_mbp: no, from maemo-418:17
gour:-)18:17
tarilmy company has to decide quicly to develop any app for n900 (navigation, gles accelerated apps...) or not, if sdk-s ar missing we abandon n900 and maemo18:17
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timeless_mbpgour: it's mostly afaik just changing classes18:18
Khertantaril: lol18:18
Khertantaril: sdk aren't missing18:18
Stskeepstaril: we have sdk but some things cannot be emulated without a proper device.18:18
StskeepsGLES can, navigation can't. but you are doing bad design if you can't work around that18:18
tarili have n90018:19
Stskeepswell then what's the problem.. :P18:19
Stskeepsthere's APIs you can code towards18:19
timeless_mbptaril: for navigation you could write a replacement gps module which emulates random coordinates18:19
Khertanclearly bad design18:19
timeless_mbps/emulates/emits/18:19
infobottimeless_mbp meant: taril: for navigation you could write a replacement gps module which emits random coordinates18:19
timeless_mbpit wouldn't be too hard to do18:19
timeless_mbpand it'd be a great favor to the community if you did it18:19
Khertansomeone know the firmware of the final n900 device ?18:19
timeless_mbp42-11 ?18:20
Stskeepstaril: all the APIs needed to work those things are in SDK.18:20
Khertanthx timeless_mbp18:20
tarilreally?18:20
lcukhasnt a generic fake gps module been developed ever?18:20
tarilin the maemo5 sdk?18:20
lcukhow on earth have people ever managed to develop gps apps without such a thing!18:20
lbt_GeneralAntilles: javispedro. I mailed Ron the site admin18:20
gouris it n900 really replacement for n8x0 or more nokia's answer to compete on the smart-phone field (palm pre, droid...)?18:21
Khertangour: yes18:21
timeless_mbplcuk: dunno18:21
kynkyits part of their long term plan i thought18:21
Stskeepstaril: yes - but you can't assume you can run it -on- SDK18:21
Stskeepsyou can put it on your device and it would work :)18:22
lcukcant you just plug in a bt/usb sat nav thing and have it work18:22
lcukthat was my understanding, like in maemo mapper you can tell it the gps device address18:22
mgedmingour, both18:22
lbt_taril: have you read up on the Maemo5 SDK? Theres a *huge* amount of docs for it18:22
tariland what about gsensors, ligght sensor....18:22
mgedminexcept more first than second18:22
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mgedmin"step 4 out of 5" etc18:22
tarilno, i havent read a lot about it18:23
lbt_but you're about to "give up on it" ?18:23
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Stskeepstaril: sensors are accessible on device, but not within SDK :P18:23
lbt_taril : http://maemo.org/development/18:23
lbt_taril: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_api_documentation/18:24
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lcuktaril, what do your team develop for/on at the moment18:24
tarilwindows mobile18:24
lbt_taril: they should give you some ideas about the coverage18:25
tarilmultimedia18:25
lbt_HTH18:25
lcukcan you access gps and accelerometers there?18:25
kynkyhtc have really open api :)18:25
tarilsure18:25
tarilsamsung18:25
javispedronot within the MS device emu18:25
tarilhtc is nothing18:25
javispedrobut IIRC18:26
javispedroheh18:26
tarilwe dont vcare about htc devices18:26
kynkyat least samsung document stuff, htc is a joke18:26
Stskeepstaril: you'll be fine on Maemo. you can access most stuff and there's apis for things18:26
Stskeepsgo look at the documentation :)18:26
tarilmaemo and n900 soungds great18:26
tarilat the moment18:26
kynkyit feels great too18:26
tarilor we will wait for samsung bada OS18:26
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Khertan[17:26] <taril> or we will wait for samsung bada OS <<< lol18:27
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zaheermtaril, gstreamer is used on n900, palm pre and others...18:28
kynkyyou should use a LiMo to drive you there18:28
tarilcool18:28
zaheermtaril, you may as well fiddle around on the n90018:28
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zaheermlimo also uses gstreamer i believe18:28
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tarilbut who has limo?18:28
* kynky prefers mplayer18:28
kynkyvodafone h1 m118:29
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kynkygstreamer reminds me too much of dshow18:29
tarilok18:30
woglindekynky but gstreamer is the only arch which has dsp support for now18:30
Robot101gstreamer and mplayer aren't comparable18:30
kynkybut i guess it easier for companies to produce paid for plugins to gstreamer, than for say mplayer18:31
woglinderobot depends18:31
Robot101if you want to implement a media player *and* a VOIP client *and* a streaming client, you need a media framework18:31
Robot101gstreamer is such a media framework18:31
woglindegoal of both is to play media files18:31
Robot101not true18:31
javispedroomg, "So I bought the HTC HD2" thread on TMO.18:31
* javispedro grabs the popcorn18:32
Robot101nokia can put a H.264 decoder into gstreamer that runs on their DSP and use it for playing back media files and for video conferencing18:32
rangeOh it's Winmo but you don't see it!18:32
kynkyRobot101, the important thing for me is ffmpeg18:32
Robot101the important thing for nokia isn't ffmpeg, and you can load all of the ffmpeg codecs into gstreamer anyway.18:32
RST38hjavis: So, would you bet at which post in this thread iPhone will come up?18:33
tarilWho use LIMO Samsung?18:33
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javispedroRST38h: first one18:33
RST38hjavis: Oh shit18:33
tarilSamsung hasnt any docu ablut it, its nothing, noone will delvelop apps for limo18:33
woglindeRobot101 the codec is already there18:33
RST38hWhy would Samsung have documentation for anything? They make feature phones not smart phones18:33
kynkyive just found mplayer to be more beneficial to me than gstreamer, developer wise gtreamer is easy to use, you can make a movie player in one line of code18:33
* mgedmin hates synchronizing his nokia n900 and his nokia 6600 calendars BY HAND LIKE A CAVEMAN18:34
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Khertanmgedmin: did you have try to sync the other way ?18:35
kynkyfor instance i use mplayer on my desktop , but hardly ever use totem (with gstreamer support, preferred xine backend anyway)18:35
Khertanlaunching sync between my n900 and Nokia 6500 didn't work when launch from n90018:35
Khertanbut work when launch from the Nokia 650018:36
zaheermkynky, install gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg18:36
zaheermon your n90018:36
zaheermthen you have the ffmpeg decoders18:36
mgedminKhertan, I've no clue how to even launch sync18:36
kynkywish my gstreamer had arrived by now, lol18:36
gourwhat app is available for syncing contacts in n900?18:36
kynkymy n900, i mean [fail]18:36
Khertanmgedmin: an other solution, go to ovi and you should be able sync your nokia 6600 with ovi18:37
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mgedminhmm18:37
tarilwill you see any future for maemo n900?18:37
Khertanand then sync your ovi account with your n90018:37
Robot101woglinde: what codec is already there? nokia wants to run the video codecs on the DSP or they will burn power18:37
tarildo you see18:37
Khertangour: contacts18:37
mgedminsync is scary18:37
Khertantaril: no we didn't see any future ... iphone will take all the market ...18:37
tarildont think so18:38
tarilnot in europe18:38
javispedroyes! :)18:38
* Klowner sits in dirt, tearing his clothes and screaming18:38
* Khertan want to remember to taril that he are on #maemo18:38
kynkyzaheerm, i got a pretty good idea how gstreamer works, i mean gstreamer model is more legal than mplayer model, cos u can opt out of distributing the dodgy parts18:38
tarildo not scare me18:38
tarilwe jut abandon iphone develpment because my idea, maemo and n90018:38
taril:D18:38
tariljust18:39
Khertanmaemo will rocks ... of course18:39
tarilwe have just18:39
Khertanbut as you are on a maemo irc channel ...18:39
tarilok, i wont be fired by myself, cool :D18:39
Khertanyou ll only get one answer ... : of course we believe in the plateform18:39
gouris there support for Cal/CardDAV in maemo?18:39
javispedrowell not me. I'm just here to waste my time.18:40
javispedro;)18:40
tarilok18:40
Klownerabandon iphone dev for maemo? seems.. drastic, why not both?18:40
tarilwe have winmo18:41
tariliphone development is full18:41
tariland awful18:41
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kynkydoes the iphone nda let u say that iphone dev is awful?18:41
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Klownerheh18:42
tariland apple and microsoft can do me a faveor anyway...18:42
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ShadowJKkynde, if you remove all the dodgy parts you are left with nothing usable, in both gstreamer and mplayer :-)18:43
kynkywinmo has had same fugly widget set for far too long18:43
ShadowJKthough nokia obviously bribes mpeg-la so there shouldn't be any problems with mpeg4 codecs you'd think18:43
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ShadowJKhowever they found noone to bribe for ogg, so that's not included by default ;P18:44
javispedrooh, the ogg issue again :)18:44
tarilevery stupid idiot develops for iphone18:44
kynkyShadowJK, thought gstreamer was very mucha media framework, like dshow is in windows. I like mplayer cos ffmpeg feels pretty much all my meda needs, mplayer supports vdpau and dts and dd really wll for me, no hassle, gstreamer has been alot more hassle for me18:44
ShadowJK*nod*18:45
woglindekynky again mplayer has no sgx dsp support18:45
woglindeonly neon through ffmpeg18:45
woglindeargs18:45
woglindecut out sgx18:45
woglindesgx was 3d18:45
tarilwill you buy a useable gles application or a gps navigator for n900?18:46
kynkythought vlc was getting optmised for n900, when that happens i thought mplayer would too ?18:46
woglindevlc is based on ffmpeg too18:46
kynkyyeah18:46
kynkysame with xine and xbmc18:46
joppubut VLC is horrible.18:46
zaheermkynky, they will need to use the dsp optimised codecs18:46
woglindeso if no dsp in ffmpeg so none in vlc or mplayer18:46
kynkyyeah vlc is horrible18:46
woglindevlc server rockz18:47
zaheermxine is pretty much unmaintained18:47
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javispedro"useable gles application"?18:47
javispedroas for the navigator,  I guess people pretty much openly HATE NOKIA MAPS TO DEATH18:48
ShadowJKThe TI DSP compiler doesn't work with ffmpeg, one of the mostly-ARM ffmpeg developers said. I think he was submitting bugreports to TI. Not sure if they are as useless as gcc bugreports though...18:48
qwerty12javispedro: for good reason.18:48
kynkyzaheerm, cant be impossible for ffmpeg to use dsp codecs though, even though it hasnt been done yet ? i would imagine ffmpeg working on omap platform to be beneficial ?18:48
tarilGLES APPS: games and user app that use opengles18:49
woglindeShadowJK hm there isnt much dsp development in ffmpeg yet18:49
mgedminnokia maps? is that the same thing as ovi maps?18:49
tarila video palyet, photo editor etc18:49
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ShadowJKwoglinde, well if the compiler explodes when he tries to use it.. :)18:49
joppuNokia maps is former Ovi Maps18:49
woglindeshadowjk?18:49
feriRST38h: anonymous rating disabled in app catalog: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/free42/18:49
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kynkywhat cant the mplayer in extras-devel do ? on n90018:50
zaheermkynky, ffmpeg is just a bunch of codecs18:50
woglindeshadowjk do you have a pointer?18:50
jkridner|workfelipe`: I'm very excited about http://www.schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/18:50
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zaheermkynky, apps should use the TI provided codecs that exist on the n900 and other omap3 platforms18:50
javispedrohey, portrait mode looks awesome18:50
ShadowJKwoglinde, it was on IRC and I don't have access to TI's bugtrackers :)18:50
kynkyi would saythe codecs in ffmpeg are pretty popular though18:50
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zaheermkynky, no need to wrap those codecs in ffmpeg18:50
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woglindejkridner you are aware of TI's left and right hand?18:50
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zaheermjkridner|work, yes it is very exciting18:50
tarilok, see you later, thanks the answers!!!18:51
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zaheermjkridner|work, i fancy trying to package it up to try it out18:52
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jkridner|workwoglinde: maybe some bits in the middle.18:52
jkridner|workmaybe a finger or two.18:52
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kynkyso the way ffmpeg treats vdpau on nvidia gpu could be the same way it treats using the dsp, off loads it to a dedicated processing unit ?18:53
kynkyor am i just talking crazy18:53
ShadowJKyes18:53
woglindejkridner its sad story18:53
ShadowJKvdpau on nvidia is treated more like xvmc18:53
kynkyxvmc is pretty much dead though18:53
kynkyvaapi on ati and intel i think, cant remember18:54
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zeevHi, did anybody got already his preordered N900?18:55
ShadowJKvdpau and vaapi do have modes that are closer to the way a dedicated hardware codec or independent codec running on the dsp would work, though18:55
ShadowJKzeenix, no18:55
ShadowJKoops18:55
ShadowJKzeev, no18:55
woglindevaapi is mor universal18:55
zeevShadowJK: when is it supposed to arrive?18:55
kynky17th ?18:55
* ShadowJK is guessing 27th18:55
joppua good front-end for mplayer would be nice since I'd prefer that as my primary video player due to it's good performance.18:56
ShadowJKor if we're talking about when it'd be in my hands I'd guess fifth18:56
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kynkyjoppu, there is smplayer , arguably best gui front end, and it uses qt, which im guessing n900 suppports18:57
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ShadowJKI wonder of theora on neon performs sufficiently better than the dsp version to offset the vorbis decoding too...18:57
woglindehm I hope I find now time to test both dsp video solutions18:57
lcukMAFW was once touted as allowing gstreamer and mplayer backend capability, how well that would work if you wanted to push it in practice, i dont know18:57
kynkyjoppu, but it sounds like that gstreamer will perform better than mplayer because gstreamer will be able to use the dedicated dsp chip18:57
joppukynky: I know, I love smplayer and that's what I primarely use.18:57
lcukbut if it did, then you would be able to switchout gstreamer and use mplayer in the default media player18:57
woglindetotem is frontend to gstreamer18:58
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RST38hlcuk: mplayer has never been mentioned afaik, am I missing something?18:58
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kynkyi dont really like totem18:58
woglindejo lardman18:58
lardman|gonewoglinde: am off, cu all tomorrow18:58
woglindeah okay18:58
woglindebye lardman18:58
joppugstreamer doesn't have as good performance as mplayer but the dsp could totally change that18:58
qwerty12lardman|gone is now known lardman|can'tspell18:58
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kynkyif gstreamer is to gtk , what would qt equivalent be ?18:59
lcukRST38h, http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/02/first-look-the-maemo-5-multimedia-framework.ars18:59
woglindekynky phonon19:00
woglindeor gstreamer19:00
ShadowJKjoppu, if only because the DSP has access to the (undocumented) dedicated video acceleration units :)19:00
waz1arsetechnica xD19:00
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kynkyis it in nokias iontrest to push phonon then, or has gstreamer gained too much traction ?19:00
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javispedrophonon uses gstreamer....19:01
woglindekynky *sigh* ti supports gstreamer19:01
kynkyfair enough, i never looked into phonon19:01
javispedroit's basically yet another level of abstraction19:01
javispedrowhich afaik can have both dshow and gstreamer as backends on windows19:02
kynkysounds crazy19:02
* andre__ wonders whether there is a "kde platform overview" picture somewhere19:02
ShadowJKbut even if the DSP codecs are slower than, say, ffmpeg on neon, they do free the CPU for audio decoding..19:02
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woglindeshadow *g*19:03
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zaheermkynky, gstreamer is not tied to gtk19:05
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zaheermkynky, it is used by many things qt and other toolkits19:05
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RST38hlcuk: Oh it is just Ars' wishful thinking ;)19:06
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zaheermwoglinde, nothing to do with TI, i think they don't care at all re: gstreamer or anything else19:06
zaheermalso qt people say phonon is deprecated19:06
kynkyzaheerm, i thought it was used by other toolkits because it was proven, had gained traction, and so no point reinventing the wheel19:06
waz1qwerty12: I'll draw you some transmission stuff today19:07
waz1Beware! xD19:07
zaheermkynky, it is a little sad that just because there is a g at the beginning, there is a belief that it is tied to gtk19:07
qwerty12*gulp*. Thanks, waz1!19:07
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kynkybut i did think gstreamer orginated from the gtkside of things19:07
CoreFHello everyone!19:07
greenflyit's just as likely the g is for gnu19:07
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zaheermkynky, a few of the devs use gnome, doesn't mean it is a gnome/gtk project...19:08
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zaheermand harmattan will use gstreamer, and it won't use phonon at all19:08
waz1qwerty12: what do you think is better - custom theming or generic?19:09
gouri've asked about tryton client running on maemo, but i'm told that mx.datetime is missing. what is the status (if any) about that egenix stuff?19:09
qwerty12waz1: Generic, I guess. Not sure how I'd go trying to implement anything custom...19:10
gourhmm, it looks that i've found a repo - http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/e/egenix-mx-base/19:10
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qwerty12gour: I uploaded the python egenix stuff for Diablo19:10
woglindeworst gstreamer modul is gvfs19:10
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qwerty12gour: If you need it for Fremantle, I guess I could reupload it for Fremantle19:10
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gourqwerty12: thanks a lot. atm i still do not own maemo device, but i'm considering it based on app i found for it ;)19:11
zaheermwoglinde, why is that?19:11
waz1Qwerty12: Don't think - Obey! XD19:11
kynkyzaheerm, would gobject be a gtk/gnome thing ?19:12
zaheermwoglinde, there is a kiosrc also somewhere if you don't like gvfs19:12
qwerty12waz1: Yes, Sir :-)19:12
zaheermkynky, gobject is used by gtk and gstreamer19:12
zaheermkynky, it is a way of doing some OO stuff in C19:12
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waz1And seriously, why nobody considered to hildonize openoffice?19:14
kalikianatolihaha19:14
waz1Is is it that crazy?19:14
kalikianatolisorry but I can't take that seriously :-)19:14
kalikianatoliopenoffice is a huge beast even on an intel dual core19:15
kynkyzaheerm, i just had it in my head that gstreamer had gtk roots, doesnt really matter though19:15
kalikianatoliI ran it on an 81019:15
kalikianatoliit was no fun19:15
javispedrobut it also seems qt may abandon Phonon after all http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/09/09/multimedia-in-qt-whats-the-story/19:15
zaheermjavispedro, what i said earlier19:15
kalikianatoliwaz1, you can try it out with easydebian and see how long openoffice takes to startup19:16
javispedroah19:16
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waz1Well, I'd rather have a bit slow but uber-functional editor than nothing at all19:16
kynkycompilling oo is fun19:17
woglindekynky whats the fun?19:17
woglindeits pretty much the same19:17
woglindeas compiling c19:17
kynkyseeing how much disk space it uses19:17
waz1And we can remove some really sophisticated functionality I guess19:17
ShadowJKabiword seemed to be usably light on N8x019:18
waz1Well, whatever, I was just asking)19:19
kynkywaz1, there is google apps for editing docs ? dunno if that helpful though19:20
ShadowJKand the koffice effort..19:20
KMFDMyeah id really like an odt and doc editor at least19:21
woglindehm the author of http://www.schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/ isnt aware that there are two soulutions from ti19:21
woglindefor mpeg4 dsp19:22
kynkywonder if you could get an arm vm running, put wince on it just for ms office :)19:22
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woglindekynky lol you didnt see vmware running on n800?19:22
zaheermwoglinde, 2 solutions meaning?19:22
woglindelet me grab the youtube video for you19:22
kynkycheers :)19:22
woglindezaheerm one from beagleboard stuff one from wireless19:22
ShadowJKI wouldn't try run openoffice or msoffice.. both are sluggish on PCs even, so I wouldn't expect much of them on N900 :)19:23
woglindekynky http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=vmware+n800+youtube&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:de:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=gET8SrXyCcrDsgaP5cCcBQ&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBAQqwQwAA#19:23
woglindehm19:23
woglindelong url19:23
kynkyShadowJK, ms office arm verson on winmo is pretty lightweight and responsive19:23
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javispedroand useless19:24
kalikianatoliwaz1, for what I want, abiword is faster and works fine, no need to wait ages for startup19:24
joppuisn't abiword pretty lightweight?19:24
cosmodoes abiword support full odf nowadays?19:24
corefusion-shorter url for the vmware on n800 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFAT9RZ5OyQ19:24
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woglindehm the dsp theora stuff is openmax based too19:25
kynkywoglinde, so if that vm could use hw gps then i could use tomtom ? :)19:25
gourheh, there emacs for maemo as well..19:25
woglindemaybee thats why koen didnt support it in oe yet19:26
zaheermwoglinde, wher eyou get that idea re: openmax?19:26
woglindehttp://code.entropywave.com/git?p=ew-leonora-beagle-demo.git;a=blob_plain;f=README;hb=master19:26
woglindezaheerm I am klicking the links on the blogposts19:26
woglindeyou know19:26
woglindesometimes it maybee porn *g*19:26
zaheermhttp://code.entropywave.com/git?p=libomxil-bellagio.git;a=summary19:26
zaheermok got you19:26
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zaheermtho it looks like he changed tact and went with ti-dspbridge19:28
zaheermhttp://code.entropywave.com/git?p=leonora.git;a=tree;f=dsp;h=48a51e5c8788967102520a142df50b78afbebd78;hb=HEAD19:28
kynkywoglinde, i guess kvm has a good chance of working too, since it native to linux kernel ?19:28
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woglindekynky dont know if kvm works with arm19:28
corefusion-Have you guys played around with the accelerometer on the N900 yet? How good is it?19:28
kalikianatolikvm requires hardware support19:28
CShadowRunDoes anyone know what the differences are between the UK and US models of the N900?19:28
kalikianatoliI don't think the arm cpu has that19:28
woglindekalikianatoli ah right19:29
zaheermCShadowRun, the charger19:29
CShadowRunThat's it? lol19:29
joppuCShadowRun: I'd guess virtually nothing19:29
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zaheermCShadowRun, yep19:29
kynkylguest doesnt need hw support, but a lot slower than kvm, maybe vbox then ?19:29
CShadowRunI was wondering if they have different keyboards19:29
zaheermsame keyboard19:29
woglindezaheerm as I said I hope find the time to test both19:29
CShadowRun(In UK, shift+3 is £ instead of # for example)19:29
CShadowRuncool19:29
woglindezaheerm felipe claims dspbridge consumes more power, but personal I dont believe it19:30
javispedrokynky: since when is paravirtual slower than hw assisted virtualization?19:30
kynkywill the us model come with a us charrger , the uk one with uk charger ? maybe handbooks be in diff languages ?19:30
zaheermyah maybe the us version will have spanish too19:30
zaheermand the uk one just english19:30
kynkyjavispedro, i thought lguest was slower than kvm ?19:30
CShadowRunIt charges by USB anyway and i have plenty of USB chargers lieing about19:31
javispedrowell I have no benchmarks but there should be no theoretical reason for that...19:31
ShadowJKCShadowRun: lol19:31
kynkycharges by micro-usb19:31
CShadowRunyea19:31
ShadowJKThe charger must adhere to the usb charging standard. Almost none do ;)19:31
CShadowRun:(19:31
CShadowRunstill cheaper anyway19:32
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ShadowJKBut get a cheap non-original USB->Nokia 2mm or nokia bigger plug converter from DX, then you could try use the included 2mm -> microUSB adapter...19:32
ShadowJKtotally insane, I know :)19:33
corefusion-doesn't that converter come with the sales package?19:33
zaheermit does19:33
Khertancorefusion-: it does19:33
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CShadowRunthere are US ones floating about on ebay buy it now for £36019:34
ShadowJKcorefusion-, the one that lets you use old nokia charger with the N90019:34
pupnikyaay - recharging battery allows reflash!  worked first time!19:34
CShadowRuncompared to buying it direct from nokia for £50019:34
FlandryI see that MAME isn't available, but is there a different arcade emulator for maemo.that i'm overlooking?19:34
CShadowRunwhich is why i ask :)19:34
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Khertan[18:34] <pupnik> yaay - recharging battery allows reflash!  worked first time! ?19:35
ShadowJKBut if you get a cheap USB->2mm adapter, they are usually wired straight with no electronics and randomly works and don't work depending on the computer used for USB source, then you can connect that to the included adapter. This chain of 2 adapters /might/ let you charge from "dumb" USB "Chargers" that just supply power19:35
zaheermCShadowRun, there is still 10% quidco to be had on nokia.co.uk19:35
CShadowRunyup that only brings it down to £450 though19:36
zaheermmakes it about 45019:36
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Khertanpupnik: did you have an image ?19:36
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CShadowRuncompared to the 390 buy it nows on ebay, maybe there will be some even cheaper offers when it's actually released :P19:36
corefusion-ShadowJK: How does it differ from using the usb-cable that comes with the device?19:37
ShadowJKcorefusion-, that cable will only work if you connect it to a computer that is awake and working or to a proper charging device19:37
kynkybest value i seen n900 was at £252 gbp19:38
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zashdoes it work with the "dumb charger" spec? as in to short the data wires19:38
CShadowRunkynky, woa...where was that?19:38
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kynkynokia store19:38
CShadowRunI'd buy that right now for that price lol19:38
CShadowRunWhen did that happen?19:38
corefusion-ShadowJK: ok, so it needs the control signals to start charging?19:38
kynkyfew weeks ago, but they stopped it19:38
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CShadowRunaww :(19:38
CShadowRunshame, 50% off would have done me fine :P19:39
kynkywas 3 x 15% off plus £50 cashback = £25219:39
CShadowRunhehe19:39
woglindekarma karma19:39
ShadowJKcorefusion-, I think the way to signal "I'm a charger, don't talk to me, just pull all the power you want", is to short the data wires together. If the data wires aren't shorted, and there's nothing talking on them to give you pemission to draw power, then it wont work, asI've understood it..19:39
SpeedEvilI tried that, but also added a battery19:39
CShadowRunwhat day is it supposed to be released again?19:39
kynkywish i had ordered battery19:40
zashShadowJK: yes19:40
zashShadowJK: shorted data wires = dumb charger, stfu and pull power!19:40
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corefusion-Ok19:41
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ShadowJKCShadowRun, so if they started shipping yesterday, or two days ago, if the ship isn't attacked by somali pirates, I imagine 2 - 3 weeks is the transit time, and then nokia shops in some places have 1 week exclusive..19:44
CShadowRuni see19:45
kynkyi thought it was getting shipped to resellers like amazon and mpd etc ?19:45
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: It's got to cross hte alps by elephant first though.19:46
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corefusion-How much will you guys be paying for your N900's, just curious. I'll be paying 23e/month for the N900 and 9,80e/month for unlimited 384kb/s data19:46
corefusion-for 2 years19:46
* ShadowJK intends to pay off the credit card right away19:46
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SpeedEvilcorefusion-: 270 or so down, and 20 quid over 2 years for coverage. And 10 quid for insurance/year.19:47
kynkyi didnt get a contract19:47
woglindehm I dont will buy it, maybee my company does19:48
SpeedEvilcorefusion-: Using a cashback program for the contract19:48
woglindethey alrady bought n8xx19:48
kynkywhere u get insurance from ?19:48
woglindeenough19:48
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woglindeSpeedEvil thats a lot money19:49
corefusion-SpeedEvil: How much you will get from cashback?19:49
SpeedEvilcorefusion-: the cashback pays essentially for the contract19:49
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kynkySpeedEvil, dont forget your free phone19:49
corefusion-speedevil: oh, odd system :P we don't have things like that here at finland.19:50
SpeedEvilhttp://www.onecompare.com/ - select a nokia 1200 or something, and find a cashback contract where you have to send in stuff to claim.19:50
SpeedEvilkynky: not free phone19:50
SpeedEvilkynky: I'm buying that directly through nokia.co.uk for that.19:50
kynkyi mean the free phone with your cashback contract19:51
pupnikok this device is still amazing19:51
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SpeedEvilkynky: oh - right. That goes on ebay if I can unlock it.19:51
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Unmenschlichhello19:51
Unmenschlichis it true that the n800 can only use SDHC cards up to 8GB per slot, and not larger ones?19:52
kynkySpeedEvil, hope you dont get stung with cashback deal19:52
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woglindeUnmenschlich could be it only has 2.6.21 kernel19:53
woglindehm19:53
SpeedEvilkynky: Planning on documenting everything very carefully, and if it doesn't work out as stated, taking them to small claims court.19:53
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woglindemaybe he didnt want to hear the answer19:53
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woglindeUnmenschlich could be it only has 2.6.21 kernel19:53
Unmenschlichhm okay, thank you19:53
VDVsxRST38h, humm, just received another comment from 'anonymous' o_019:53
GeneralAntillesUnmenschlich, no.19:53
GeneralAntillesUnmenschlich, it can use cards up to 2048GB.19:54
GeneralAntillesAs long as you use something beside exFAT.19:54
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Unmenschlichah okay, thanks, ext3 should do fine I guess19:55
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* andre__ gets confused by the nicknames of some people here19:56
* frals bashes his head against the desk19:58
fralsgotta love no n900 in sweden before 1.1 is released... \o/19:58
qwerty12Good luck waiting for "1.1"...19:59
woglindefrals haha yes I saw the sim card stuck19:59
fralsyeah19:59
woglindedamn gsm-modems19:59
woglinde*g*19:59
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ShadowJKfrals, what is this?20:03
woglindeShadowJK was in the comments on blogs.maemo.org20:04
woglindeslow slow maemo.org20:04
fralsif you understand swedish: http://www.mobil.se/artikel/nokia_borjar_salja_supermobilen_n900_mob_091110130156-421.html20:04
woglindeshadowjk -> http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2009/11/houston-we-have-take-off.html20:05
ShadowJKfrals, ja inga problem :)20:05
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ShadowJKfrals, oh well, week 49 is only a week later than finnish nokia shop says it will start shipping..20:08
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fralsseems a bit silly as ive not heard anything like this from the other (three or so) countries that have the exact same problem :<20:09
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GeneralAntilleswoglinde, blogs.maemo.org? WTF?20:12
GeneralAntillesfrals, should be before the end of the year, at least.20:12
ShadowJKweek 49 is also the week that non-nokia shops and operators will start getting the phones (in limited quantitites) in Finland.. atleast you swedes get an excuse out of nokia, we don't :)20:12
fralsGeneralAntilles: yeah, hopefully :)20:13
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ShadowJK(and we don't have "3" in .fi, or any other 3G-only operators)20:14
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woglindeGeneralAntilles yeah it isnt named blogs20:22
woglindebut most of the page from maemo.org20:23
woglinde*g*20:23
woglindefirst page20:23
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alteregoIs it possible to use sbox2 for maemo 5 dev?20:29
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woglindealterego hm has only fremantle from april20:30
alteregoSorry?20:30
woglindealterego in maemosdk+ which uses sbox2 you only have roottarget for fremantle version from april20:31
gouri'm reading some n900 review where it is mentioned that "memory available for installation of 3rd party software is limited to 256mb". is it true?20:31
alteregogour, no20:31
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Stskeepsgour: http://wiki.maemo.org/Opt_Problem20:32
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Stskeepsmost 3rd party software does optification now so20:32
gouralterego: good. i found update which says it is 2gb under /home/opt20:32
gourStskeeps: thanks20:33
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GeneralAntillesrcadden, betraying his ignorance in public once again.20:37
pH5hi, is there a way to programatically place a phone call in maemo5 (call up the phone ui via d-bus call with a given number)?20:39
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cosmopH5: afaik yes, but i don't know how20:40
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aSIMULAterseen konttori20:47
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GeneralAntilles~seen konttori20:52
infobotkonttori <n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 21h 32m 14s ago, saying: 'oh, n900 in uk for free with contract: http://www.nokiaretail.co.uk/Brands/Nokia/Nseries-Multimedia-Phones/sb489/p26078.htm'.20:52
GeneralAntillesYou're slow, infobot.20:53
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pupnikhello? server down?20:59
SpeedEvil?20:59
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pupnikcan not install qik, or update fremantle repo21:01
GeneralAntillespupnik, we just blocked you.21:02
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fiferboyI'm 2.5 Gs closer to 3G than I was this morning...21:08
fiferboyData transmission is $0.05/KB, though...21:12
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lbt<sigh>21:14
lbtMrs lbt: "Where's my n900?"21:15
lbtdamned noob21:15
Stskeepspoint her to the shipping thread21:15
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cosmowhat's a good way to run optify in rules so, that it won't fail non-maemo build?21:17
GeneralAntilleslbt, just put an N900 label on a 5800.21:17
lbthmm, I have a 311021:17
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wazd"Where's Zed?" :D21:17
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Xisdibikwazd: Zeddicus Zul'Zorander?21:22
zashZwho21:23
zashGeneralAntilles: *facepalm*21:23
SpeedEvilhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeddicus_Zu%27l_Zorander21:24
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johnsqHi21:27
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GAN900zash, what, they're both black and they both have touchscreens. ;)21:29
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Jaffare21:32
GeneralAntillesHowdy, Jaffa.21:33
wazdXisdibik: nah, Zed's dead :(21:35
VDVsxoh, Messi didn't spamed us today :( ^21:36
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GeneralAntillesI hate comment moderation21:39
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timeless_mbpanyone here familiar w/ debian's build system?21:48
lbtas in Debian's or as in dpk-buildpkg21:49
lbtor, as they say... just ask ;)21:49
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timeless_mbpcompare:21:50
timeless_mbphttp://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/a/autoconf2.13/autoconf2.13_2.13.orig.tar.gz21:50
timeless_mbphttp://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/a/autoconf2.13/autoconf2.13_2.13-54.diff.gz21:51
timeless_mbpof the file in the sdk repo, most files that have a diff patch files by the same file path as the archive structure in the .orig21:51
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lbtthis is a very good move21:51
timeless_mbp(tar tzf autoconf2.13_2.13.orig.tar.gz; zgrep -- ^--- autoconf2.13_2.13-54.diff.gz) |less21:51
timeless_mbpautoconf-2.13/ChangeLog21:52
timeless_mbp--- autoconf2.13-2.13.orig/Makefile.in21:52
lbtare you unsure why they are there?21:52
timeless_mbpi'm unsure why autoconf-2.13/ and autoconf2.13-2.13.orig/ are not matching paths21:53
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lbtthe patch is probably applied -p121:54
lbtso it depends on the person/process who made it21:54
dmj726How do I make a hildon button that shows just an icon?21:54
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crashanddie_gents, how can I run an app running on the n900 on a remote x11 server through SSH?21:57
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crashanddie_(so app being run on N900 and displayed on remote computer)21:57
lbtX11Forwarding21:57
crashanddie_no shit?21:58
lbtno shit21:58
* Moo____ just got ssh++screen+irssi running in maemo. lovely.21:58
lbtnot sure if dropbear supports it21:58
timeless_mbpssh -X ?21:58
crashanddie_but really, I'm using putty, with x11 forwarding enabled, I have xming running, this setup works when connecting to another linux box21:58
adeusor just DISPLAY the window21:58
crashanddie_however, when I ssh into the N900, and run an app, it just displays on the N90021:59
lbtsame LAN crashanddie_?21:59
crashanddie_lbt: running openssh21:59
crashanddie_lbt: yeah21:59
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: is it a nokia app?21:59
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timeless_mbpbecause most nokia apps use the launcher21:59
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: trying anything, really21:59
timeless_mbpwhich means they aren't really 'running'21:59
crashanddie_ah21:59
lbtexport DISPLAY=<hostIP>:0.021:59
lbtrun app21:59
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timeless_mbpyou're actually running an app which just talks to a daemon and says "hey fork for X, here are some args"21:59
lbtif that fails you may need xhost + on host (or equiv)21:59
timeless_mbpthe daemon says "oh, sure, no problem, i'll fork for that, and obviously I'll keep my DISPLAY"22:00
lbttimeless_mbp: good point... some apps do that22:00
zaheermnew app manager looks interesting: http://pixelpipe.com/item/1fb26ead-f012-4890-8f38-6fa800f5edcf22:00
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: any apps you know that don't do that?22:00
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timeless_mbpthere's a maemo-launcher, a maemo-summoner, and a maemo-invoker22:00
timeless_mbpone of those lets you avoid that business22:00
timeless_mbpi typically try each until i find the one of invoker/summoner that does what i want22:00
qwerty12_N900timeless_mbp: maemo-summoner starts a new maemo-launcher for each app you invoke it with22:00
timeless_mbpthe first argument to them is <apppath?appname>.launch22:01
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orbarronhello all: can anyone let me know how I can switch targets? I am in [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: /] and I would like to move to another target I created...22:17
fiferboysb-menu22:18
kalikianatoliorbarron, sb-conf select arm722:18
kalikianatolior whatever target name22:18
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orbarronthanks...22:20
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dmj726WHy was official python support dropped?22:23
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kalikianatolibecause the person in charge had shivery hands and couldn't hold it22:24
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lizardodmj726: python support was never official...22:24
dmj726oh22:24
lizardoAFAIK :)22:24
Klownerdev was pinin' for the fjords22:24
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dmj726So Maemo never had a soul?22:25
kalikianatoliI think the only bit that was ever included was the interpreter but no libraries22:25
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dmj726was just curious.22:25
Klownerdmj726: I dunno, 32GB will hold a lot of barry white songs22:25
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: doesn't seem to want to work22:25
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: have you used it lately on the N900?22:25
dmj726http://xkcd.com/413/22:25
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kalikianatolidmj726, it's probably determined that no support means that the community has even more control over it22:26
dmj726I see22:26
kalikianatoliwhich is a good thing22:26
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lizardodmj726: what is included by default is only a few packages on needed by SDK tools, on the device there is nothing python related by default22:26
dmj726I had heard in the forums that support was dropped after 3.x22:26
dmj726...so I was curious22:26
dmj726It seems to work just fine.22:27
qwerty12_N900PyMaemo team have been doing a brilliant job, anyway, so "no official support" is a non-issue22:27
* dmj726 has been messing with python on the sdk22:27
Klowneryeah, pymaemo looks as though it's under active development22:27
dmj726...zoutube is now horribly mangled.22:27
Klownerseeing as their most recent blog post was yesterday22:27
dmj726good documentation too.22:28
dmj726now the docs just need more visibility22:28
crashanddie_qwerty12_N900: dude, have you done this recently?22:29
qwerty12_N900crashanddie_: My last attempts with X Forwarding were on an N800, and the end-result (when I did get it working) was total shit (and looked it, too) because of Sapwood issues22:31
crashanddie_hmm22:31
crashanddie_do we have a VPN server for the N900?22:31
crashanddie_err, VNC22:32
qwerty12_N900x11vnc22:32
qwerty12_N900Should be in Extras-devel22:33
timeless_mbpcrashanddie_: /usr/bin/maemo-invoker /usr/bin/osso_calculator.launch22:33
timeless_mbpseemed to do /something/22:33
lizardodmj726: yes, we have plans to do some site reorganization (including the documentation part) in a few weeks22:33
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: shows an "Internal error" banner on the N90022:34
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timeless_mbpat least your n900 is responsive!22:35
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dmj726I'm not seeing how to make my buttons icon only22:36
qwerty12_N900dmj726: GtkButton with a GtkImage as its child? Or HildonButton supports having an icon; you could use that and not set the title and value labels22:37
dmj726ah22:38
dmj726is there a stock set of icons guaranteed to be there?22:38
lbtwhen I build a package... it's linking against a .so that's not there22:39
lbthow do I find out why it wants that .so22:39
lbtthis is linking xgettext...22:40
lbtldd says the resultant binary needs both libgettextlib-0.17.so and libgettextlib-0.14.4.so22:40
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qwerty12_N900dmj726: There are the GTK stock icons (http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/gtk-Stock-Items.html) which look rather fugly... But you can look in /usr/share/icons/hicolor and see if there is a suitable icon for you there. Bear in mind the device has more icons than the SDK in that folder...22:41
lbtI am 99% sure this is sbox screwing around22:41
dmj726GTK_STOCK_MEDIA_PLAY okay...looks good22:42
suihkulokkilbt: try running /lib/ld-linux.so.2 --list /path/to/binary22:43
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lbt.so.2 ?22:44
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suihkulokki.3 on armel22:44
lbt.libs/MYxgettext: error while loading shared libraries: libgettextlib-0.14.4.so: cannot open shared object file:22:44
lbtessentially I'm compiling the fremantle gettext in the fremantle SDK22:45
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lbtif you have a Fremantle SDK the shipped binary has the same problem22:45
lbtbut sbox hijacks it normally22:45
lbttry  /lib/ld-linux.so.3 --list /usr/bin/xgettext    in  a normal SDK22:46
lbtsuihkulokk ... thoughts?22:47
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timeless_mbplbt: ooh22:52
timeless_mbpyou got that error22:52
timeless_mbpi had that problem on some systems22:53
* lbt thinks it's an SDK bug22:54
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lbtnot sure if gettext needs gettext to build...22:55
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wazdqwerty12_N900: around?22:58
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: did you have a patched source + binary for the cpl?22:58
qgilVDVsx: ping22:58
kammihi22:58
wazdqwerty12_N900: http://s46.radikal.ru/i114/0911/39/b71881d0cf06.png22:59
GeneralAntilleswazd, agh, mein eyes!22:59
timeless_mbpspeaking of msgfmt22:59
timeless_mbpcan someone w/ a few mins and my package please poke me?22:59
timeless_mbpwazd: any reason not to have play/pause on the left side?23:00
wazdGeneralAntilles: these are default fremantle font sizes23:00
wazdtimeless_mbp: well, they can be on the left :)23:01
qwerty12_N900wazd: 'effin awesome! Thanks! Although, what happened to my lovely toolbar? =)23:01
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wazdqwerty12_N900: say "bye-bye" to it :)23:01
wazdquestion to the croud - where to place timer23:01
timeless_mbptimer?23:01
wazdcrowd*23:01
wazdestimated time23:02
timeless_mbpwhat are green/yellow?23:02
fralsseeds/peers23:02
qwerty12_N900timeless_mbp: The applet is the same; I haven't touched it since the last time I gave you the source and a binary23:02
wazdtimeless_mbp: they are just place holders23:02
wazdtimeless_mbp: haven't figured out good icons for them23:02
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: so i need to get code for getting the active gtk window?23:02
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wazdqwerty12_N900: that's just the very beginning though23:03
VDVsxqgil, pong23:03
fralseta could work at the far right after the % done i think ;o23:03
lbtdo you need MB of MB and % and ETA23:03
wazdqwerty12_N900: what do you think bout "active" divider? :)23:04
lbtmaybe X% of MB : ETA23:04
qwerty12_N900timeless_mbp: I can pass the XID of the Control Panel window, myself, just wanted to know when you'd gotten your stuff ready for it23:04
timeless_mbpmy stuff is kinda ready i think, but my vm lost its network23:04
timeless_mbpso i'm sidetracked23:04
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qwerty12_N900wazd: Hmm, ATM, I'm just using filter buttons in the menu for the user to switch through torrents with different states... Considering the amount of space available, not sure deviating from that makes sense23:05
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qgilhi VDVsx, is there anything missing in th registration or are we ready to go?23:06
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wazdqwerty12_N900: I'll think bout them later, just wanted to show you an example of torrents list23:07
qgilif the only problem remaining is that couple of little details in the email sent to approved sponsored participants...23:07
timeless_mbpwho was going to be my debian packaging helper?23:07
wazdqwerty12_N900: and that active divider idea :P23:07
VDVsxqgil, we need to change a word in the "sponsorship" email and fix one thing in the admin interface, but it's ready for the general public23:08
* timeless_mbp eyes libhtml-tree-perl_3.18-1.diff.gz23:08
qwerty12_N900wazd: :)23:08
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qgil...we can open  registration and not approve people until is fixed, surely tomorrow23:08
wazddon't know how to describe "peer" with icon :D23:08
qgilok, then I'll edit the pages right now23:08
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VDVsxqgil, feri went home, but I sent him the details23:08
wazdmaybe just P and S23:08
qgilVDVsx & feri, thank you very much for your work today23:08
qwerty12_N900wazd: A leech... :p23:08
qgilI would go happily to sleep right now, but you deserve a final sprint today  ;)23:08
wazdqwerty12_N900: well, peer is not quite a leech :D23:09
VDVsxqgil, just 1 thing23:09
wazdqwerty12_N900: that's the problem)23:09
VDVsxqgil, when approve a participant don't use the checkbox in the participants list, there's a bug there23:09
Corsachmhm, fun, it seems that n810 jabber could video chat with empathy on my desktop, but they can't agree on video codecs23:09
Corsactp-fs-Message: tf_stream_error: stream error errorno=2 error=Codec negotiation failed: There was no intersection between the remote codecs and the local ones23:09
qwerty12_N900wazd: Most are (I also hit-and-run :( ) :p23:09
VDVsxqgil, you need to click in the participant name and use the button inside the 'profile'23:09
qgilVDVsx: mmm ok23:10
wazdqwerty12_N900: anyway, I think S and P will fit23:10
* qwerty12_N900 nodsw23:10
qwerty12_N900-w23:10
qgilI will look at this log tomorrow to see what you mean.  ;)  Now my brain is at minimum23:10
VDVsxqgil, ok, it's easy, I'll send a e-mail anyway23:11
qgiland anyway I don't need to approve anybody tonight23:11
wazdso we can make these squares blueish too23:11
VDVsxqgil, I think feri will hide that checkbox tomorrow :)23:11
wazdqwerty12_N900: are you familiar with cairo? :)23:11
* w00t injects caffine into qgil23:11
qwerty12_N900wazd: Not very, I must admit... I've done some playing but my (lack of) maths skills does make trying to use it fun :)23:12
qgilThe scoop goes here: http://maemo.org/news/events/registrations/23:15
fralsgah, the n900 is *kinda* popular at forum nokia remote device access >_<23:15
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qgilthose of you willing/planning to go to http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-Barcelona_Long_Weekend please register there23:15
qgilIn the registration you will see different focus areas23:16
wazdqwerty12_N900: http://s40.radikal.ru/i089/0911/f3/4b70e2a65d84.png23:16
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qgilthere are potentially 3 activities in English with international scope23:17
* SpeedEvil has passport, but not going.23:17
qgilUX meets Code (confirmed) + localization workshop (if there is critical mass) + documentation workshop (idem)23:17
* cosmo just uploaded his first app to maemo extras23:18
qwerty12_N900wazd: Looks good, will get to implementing this over the course of the weekend23:18
qgiland there are two activities for local/Spanish audience: developer training and presentation of the N900 (end user friendly activities)23:18
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qgilwe will confirm the schedule based on the registration23:18
qgilany questions, just ask23:19
wazdqwerty12_N900: what I think - to make icons change their color with the theme we can just draw rectangle and black sign above it23:19
wazdqwerty12_N900: screw rounded corners :)23:19
RST38hhelo qgil23:20
qwerty12_N900wazd: Hehe23:20
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SpeedEvilSquare is the new rounded!23:21
RST38hwazd: oh yesss (the image)23:21
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cosmobtw, what does autobuilder do when i'm uploading two packages, and the second depends on the first?23:21
wazdRST38h: :)23:22
wazdRST38h: where to place "minutes remain"?23:22
Corsachmhm, ok, seems that n810 only has H263-* codecs23:23
Corsacwhich aren't available freely ><23:23
wazdRST38h: it's really essential stuff but I'm really stuck23:23
Corsacis there a way to add more codecs to ffmpeg/gstreamer on the n810?23:23
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Corsachmhm though it seems that I would even need theora23:24
aSIMULAterhrm i would like to attend :/ o well23:24
VDVsxwazd, don't like your mockup :P, you picked the wrong torrents :)23:24
wazdVDVsx: boobs.o.fire.XI.XviD.HD.avi? :D23:25
VDVsxqwerty12_N900, you ned to explain to wazd what is the right torrent to feature in a transmission screenshot23:25
VDVsxwazd, nah23:25
RST38hwazd: A moment23:25
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SpeedEvilClearly linux distributions :)23:26
Macerugh23:26
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Macerhave to reinstall my zimbra ssl cert23:26
SpeedEvilalso openstreetmap planet file23:26
lcukaSIMULAter, then either speak and get on the ui heavy hitters list, or follow the instructions on the wiki page and forum thread23:26
lcukcatch qgil now whilst hes overtired ;)23:26
lcukhi quim btw lol23:26
VDVsxSpeedEvil, wrong answer23:26
wazdI can write whatever I want :D23:26
Macerwhy does this take so damn long? :)23:26
wazdInternet.Archive.2008.rar :D23:26
Macergoddamn godaddy ssl certs23:26
qwerty12_N900wazd: I think VDVsx (*shakes stick at him*) is referring to my habit of using IKEA Catalogue torrents...23:26
* lcuk goes again, tv time23:26
SpeedEvilWhy...23:27
VDVsxqwerty12_N900, bingo ;)23:27
wazdqwerty12_N900: how dare you!23:27
RST38hwazd: I would make the "MB downloaded" and "time remaining" flip23:28
qwerty12_N900I know, I know... :-(23:28
RST38hwazd: like the numbers at the airport display, you know23:28
MacerMy father, oh my GOD (may his soul rest in perfect peace) before he died he called me and told me that he deposited the sum of Nine Million,United State Dollars.23:28
Macerhahahaha23:28
wazdRST38h: good point23:28
Macerwtf. i wasn't expecting that to get to my mail server.. nobody even has this addresss :)23:28
RST38hdeposited where?23:28
RST38hto your mail server? is it still there?23:28
Maceryeah23:29
Maceri have to restart my mail server now though becuse i just installed a new ssl cert for it23:29
Macerit's always fun to restart zimbra23:30
Macertakes like 30 mins23:31
wazdRST38h: that's actually a really nice idea :D23:31
Macerbut yeah. i love it when i get emails like that23:31
Macerthe person who wrote it really put some effort behind the story :)23:31
MacerMy father, (oh God! My father!) lied in a peaceful rest...23:32
Maceri wonder how many idiots they get with those emails :)23:32
qwerty12_N900Macer: reward that effort by giving them some of your money...23:32
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RST38hwazd: everything has been invented before us...23:32
Macerqwerty12_N900: screw my money. let me give them my whole bank account :)23:32
Macerdid you see castle?23:32
RST38h"The MPAA has successfully shut down an entire town's municipal WiFi because a single user was found to be downloading a copyrighted movie."23:32
Macerwhere the con man wound up conning the email guy out of a ton of money?23:32
Macerhaha23:32
qwerty12_N900lol23:32
qwerty12_N900Can't say that I have, no :-)23:33
Macerthat cracked me up23:33
javispedroargh, who edited the topic again?23:33
javispedrothat unicode char is all over it again23:33
Maceri have to take a shower and start getting drunk23:33
Macer3 day weekend :)23:33
Macerugh zimbra is so slow to restart23:34
Macergoddamn java23:34
*** javispedro changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt"23:34
GiantTalkingCowWhy get drunk for no reason?23:34
MacerJava: quasi-emulated C23:34
Macermy gf and i broke up23:34
Macermight as well get hammered23:34
GiantTalkingCowI see. I'd go for drugs over alcohol, personally.23:35
Macerthen going to visit a friend of mine in cleveland and see about having a one night stand with some slutwhore from some bar23:35
Macerhaha23:35
lbtjavispedro: the Nokia forums guy got back to me : http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Featured_Articles23:35
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lbtsadly we lost a Maemo item for an S60 :)23:35
javispedrothis would be the right time to say "better safe than sorry", but heh.23:36
lbtnah, he owes us one now ;)23:36
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Macern900 out yet?23:37
lbtmine's out23:37
Macer:-P23:37
lbtjust sitting there looking cute23:37
* lbt polishes it a bit23:38
wazdqwerty12_N900: and btw, this UI is portrait ready23:38
qwerty12_N900asimulator's cat has one; go mug it23:38
LurkerXXX__I wonder what retail stores in the U.S. will have it.23:38
wazdqwerty12_N900: just place element groups in coloumns and that's it23:38
qwerty12_N900wazd: Awesome, the current one is so not... :)23:38
RST38hyou can actually get two n900s, one from asim's cat, and another one for holding that cat hostage23:39
* javispedro sees wazd's mockup23:39
javispedrolooks cool23:39
aSIMULAterlul23:40
aSIMULAter:D23:40
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* qwerty12_N900 's cat would yawn and go to sleep if I tried giving her this N900...23:42
* lbt 's cat uses his as a pillow...23:42
* javispedro hopes qwerty12 does not discover javispedro is in fact his cat23:43
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* corefusion- 's cat is not home atm, please leave a message after the peep...23:44
corefusion-*peep*23:44
qgiljavispedro, the publicity should be about the Long Weekend as a whole, not only the UX part. Anyway, that was my last sentence of the day. good night!23:45
fralsnn o/23:45
javispedrohey, nite! :)23:45
qwerty12_N900'night23:45
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wazdmy cat uses mine... oh, wait :D23:51
VDVsxmikkov-, btw, you don't want a IRC cloak ? (sorry if GAN already asked you)23:52
mikkov-What would I need to do to use it?23:52
MacerFUCK23:52
Macergoddamn ssl cert is acting idiotic23:53
mikkov-I'm testing pidgin btw23:53
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qwerty12_N900mikkov-: Identify to NickServ. That's about it23:53
mikkov-That means no then :)23:54
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VDVsxmikkov-, did that a while ago, that reminds me that I need to vote :)23:55
mikkov-Which are you going to vote? :)23:56
mikkov-UI is almost unusable23:56
mikkov-Or the menus at least23:56
VDVsxmikkov-, well is better than the maemo4 version I think23:56
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mikkov-Never tried that23:57
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mikkov-But this is pretty good once you get to chatting23:57
VDVsxmikkov-, and has *big* buttons23:57
VDVsx+- :P23:57
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VDVsxmikkov-, I will vote up, since the Q&A isn't meant to evaluate the UI (only if the UI works) :P23:59
mikkov-Actually I don't know how connect irc with this, I was just trying to make some sense of menu :)23:59
zaheermVDVsx, are we emant to use that registration page at events yet?23:59

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