IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-11-11

timeless_mbpbe sure to document use cases in detail00:00
cehtehhaha donotwant00:00
kynkystuff optmized fo the jvm will be fast, its the stuff that isnt thats slow i thought00:00
timeless_mbps/its/it's/00:00
kynkyso it depends00:00
timeless_mbpbut actually00:00
timeless_mbpif they're using a hotspot or similar00:00
GAN900jvms are never 'fast'00:00
timeless_mbpthen unoptimized doesn't necessarily mean it'll be slow00:00
timeless_mbpit might just be big to download00:00
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* timeless_mbp doesn't know anything about android's vm00:00
kynkytey can be, for instance on arm can do native jit on chip i think00:00
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kynkyand if jvm is loaded in memory then loading an app into memory could be lower disk io, than a bigger c++ app, with its loader etc00:02
zaheerm-lpmauku is not open source?00:02
zaheerm-lp"You are NOT allowed to modify or redistribute the source code" in the source00:02
lardmanre00:02
kynkyall apples and oranges, benchmarks can be fiddled , but generally i would say maemo is faster than android, how much by, depends what your doing00:02
zaheerm-lpthere goes the patch i was going to write :)00:03
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timeless_mbpit can00:03
timeless_mbpbut e.g. maemo has no java support at all00:03
timeless_mbpand it's not usually jit00:03
timeless_mbpso much as actually *running* java bytecode00:03
timeless_mbpthat's not really jit00:03
timeless_mbpunless you count bytecode to microcode as jit00:03
timeless_mbpand i've never met anyone who does00:03
timeless_mbpor did00:03
timeless_mbpkynde: if one is lucky one can optimize ld to not suck00:03
timeless_mbpbut if a c++ app shares libraries w/ another (running) c++ app, it can get a similar win00:04
timeless_mbpso that's not really a useful statement00:04
timeless_mbpbesides, maemo is C based, not c++ based :)00:04
timeless_mbp(ignoring the browser)00:04
timeless_mbpor at least maemo1-maemo500:04
timeless_mbpthe future is open ;-)00:04
kynky:)00:04
timeless_mbpjust a useless point, the n97 supports flash lite 300:04
timeless_mbpthe n900 supports flash 9.400:04
timeless_mbpthere's a huge difference00:04
timeless_mbpask a guy i met last week from MTV00:04
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timeless_mbpzaheerm: byte code patch the source and make the customer rebuild it :)00:04
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zaheerm-lptimeless_mbp, :)00:05
kynkyyou can do tricks in both java/jvm and c00:05
Shapeshifterin any case, you want to code in python.00:05
Shapeshifteryes you do.00:05
GAN900zaheerm-lp, he open sourced it a long time ago, I thought.00:06
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qwerty12_N810GAN900: He's made the source available, yes, but looking at the dates and that notice, I would not say it is "open"00:06
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zaheerm-lpyah open source doesn't mean providing source code00:07
kynkyother way around ?00:08
lcukbug 6108 added :)00:08
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6108 tracker takes cpu and time when scanning media00:08
dmj726heh.00:09
timeless_mbplcuk: it should take NO time at all to scan media?00:09
dmj726WHy isn't mauku open source?00:09
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zaheerm-lpso question is why is mauku in maemo extras free not non-free?00:10
dmj726I know what the definition of OSS is and all that, but why release the code and not FOSSify it?00:10
lcuktimeless, i scan the same filesystem completely recursively and build up trees of data based on filename extremely quickly00:10
crashanddie__gents, any specific reason why an SD card wouldn't mount (n900) ?00:10
crashanddie__It appears in dmesg00:10
lcukit takes a few seconds00:10
lcuknot 9mins00:10
zaheerm-lpdmj726, no clue really, unless he wants to prevent fragmentation00:10
lcukdunno crashanddie00:10
cehtehno filesystem?00:10
timeless_mbplcuk: so...00:10
timeless_mbpwe've discussed file system layout00:11
timeless_mbpthe problem is that it's kinda hard to deal w/00:11
dmj726I really wouldn't worry about fragmentation, since it won't happen unless the original project is swirling the drain.00:11
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timeless_mbpin order for it to work, you have to have meta data in the fs explaining which algorithm you use for organizing your media00:11
crashanddie__http://slexy.org/view/s21hsDMHrq00:11
lcuktimeless, im not looking for a generic fix00:11
zaheerm-lpdmj726, i am only speculating for the author, i have no clue00:11
lcukthis is something a user will know, no computer can detect it00:11
lcuki know that00:11
lcukbut i would like to help tracker.00:12
dmj726zaheerm-lp: Did you see my mockups?00:12
lcukmy movies and music is sorted and categroised by folder alone00:12
timeless_mbplcuk: tracker would need to let you tell it so that it could write a file00:12
timeless_mbpotherwise it'd bother you each time you swapped between 2 cards00:12
zaheerm-lpdmj726, re: video editor?00:12
dmj726yes00:12
timeless_mbplcuk: but basically, if you want to do that00:12
zaheerm-lpdmj726, can you provide me with the link again00:13
timeless_mbpi suggest you work out a format and a patch for tracker upstream00:13
lcuktimeless, config file? gconf? tracker itself does different things based on filetype00:13
lcukit already knows what kind of scan to run00:13
lcukcant i just change the type of scan00:13
timeless_mbplcuk: it needs to be tied to the specific card00:13
lcukto just be file00:13
VDVsxhumm, does anyone here tested/saw this app in the testing queue: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/free42/  ?00:13
lcukno00:13
lcukits not00:13
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timeless_mbpwhat happens if i give you a card w/ my media00:13
dmj726original: http://imagebin.org/7104400:13
dmj726next: http://imagebin.org/7116300:13
lcukin windows, i can change the scan type for "*.C" files00:13
lcukso that it can do full text search in it00:13
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lcukwithout the change, windows search in files completely bypasses the .c files00:14
lcuki want to do the inverse00:14
lcukand ignore movies00:14
lcukor rather, the content of00:14
zaheerm-lpdmj726, can you explain the different colours?00:14
timeless_mbplcuk: i'm suggesting a tactic that is likely to work00:14
timeless_mbpif you get code into upstream which does what i suggest00:14
ShapeshifterAre there zsh and screen for the n900?00:15
timeless_mbpthen it's unlikely nokia would actively break it when that arrived in a future product00:15
timeless_mbpit might not be the default00:15
timeless_mbpbut it'd probably work00:15
dmj726zaheerm-lp: let's move this to #pitivi, okay?  Too noisy here.00:15
timeless_mbpand someone could write an app which let you write out those config files00:15
timeless_mbphttp://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=2917&idPhone1=261500:15
timeless_mbpfwiw00:15
lcuktheres no need to touch my media00:15
lcukthis is tracker config only00:15
timeless_mbplcuk: again00:15
lcukif a new filetype comes out *.wiggly00:16
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timeless_mbpwhat happens when i give you an sdcard00:16
lcuki scan it by filename00:16
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crashanddie__is there any manual command I could issue to mount the card?00:16
timeless_mbpthe sdcard has media i arranged according to some stupid algorithm which doesn't match yours00:16
lcukcos thats how i see it, its not a harm, its me looking00:16
lcukso00:16
lcuki get that now00:16
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: mount -t vfat /dev/...00:16
crashanddie__timeless, that's my point, which /dev?00:16
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timeless_mbpwell, /dev/mmcblk0p1 is the MyDocs volume00:17
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crashanddie__ok, found it00:17
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crashanddie__http://slexy.org/view/s21hsDMHrq00:17
crashanddie__damn00:17
crashanddie__no00:17
crashanddie__wrong cp00:17
timeless_mbpwhich was actually in your output :)00:17
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crashanddie__yeah but the output is confusing00:18
crashanddie__because it says mmcblk0, when really it's mmcblk100:18
timeless_mbpwiat00:18
timeless_mbpis this your MyDocs volume00:18
timeless_mbpor the external card?00:18
crashanddie__no00:18
crashanddie__external card00:18
timeless_mbpiirc someone mentioned a bug about that00:19
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timeless_mbpglad to meet it :)00:19
* timeless_mbp sighs00:19
timeless_mbpthese guys @gsmarena are wrong00:19
timeless_mbp> PhonebookPractically unlimited entries and fields,00:19
timeless_mbpthat's not true, the number is roughly 5000:19
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lcuko_O00:22
lcukhttp://linux.die.net/man/5/tracker.cfg00:22
kalikianatolitimeless_mbp, I suspect not so many people have contacts with 50 or more fields anyway :P00:22
lcukNoIndexFileTypes=FILEGLOB[;MORE;FILEGLOBS...]00:22
lcuk    List of partial file patterns (glob) separated by semicolons that specify files not to index. Only basic metadata (i.e. information retrieved by stat(2)) is indexed00:22
lcuk:D00:22
* lcuk goes find out how to configure00:22
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timeless_mbpkalikianatoli: not the point00:25
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AksuHi! What database I should use for c++ development. I prefer an object-oriented one00:26
timeless_mbphey00:26
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mikkov__VDVsx: it's still possible to upload anything to maemo.org/downloads00:26
timeless_mbpAksu: don't.00:26
timeless_mbpcan someone please tell me precisely which games are *actually* included in the shipping n900 42-11 image?00:27
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, find us a firmware image.00:27
Aksutimeless_mbp: eh00:27
timeless_mbpdatabases are typically SQL based00:28
timeless_mbpunless you really want a database which is not SQL based, you should think about why00:28
timeless_mbpbindings for SQL are available for most languages for most specific engines00:28
ShapeshifterAksu: well, if I'm not mistaken there are frameworks which access SQL databases but represent data as objects inside your app. I don't know about c++, but python for example has sqlalchemy which does that.00:29
* cehteh sometimes regrets this sqlism00:29
Shapeshifterit's called an "ORM"00:29
kalikianatoliAksu, sqlite is preinstalled, and it's quite nice for apps00:30
cehtehwhy not datalog ... :P00:30
Shapeshifterso there are ORMs for c++ for sure as well.00:30
Aksutimeless_mbp: I am thinking about writing app for maemo for schools database-class. They would like it to be using oo- or xml-database00:30
lcuklist of non relation database systems (not maemo specific) some might be available and interest folks.00:30
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lcukhttp://spw.etherpad.com/7?00:30
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ShapeshifterAksu: seems like DTL is something you might want.00:30
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ShapeshifterAksu: but... what timeless_mbp said.00:31
timeless_mbppersonally, i'd call xmldb "pain"00:31
timeless_mbpbut i'm a browser engineer, xml = pain00:31
timeless_mbpanyway. if you went w/ sql, i'd suggest sqlite00:32
timeless_mbpit's simple, and there are bindings for most platforms00:33
timeless_mbpof sql db's, i think it's the one gaining the fastest atm00:33
timeless_mbpbut it's typically used in process, not for large server apps00:33
timeless_mbpif that matches your goals, it's probably not a bad choice00:33
timeless_mbpit really depends on what you're modeling00:33
timeless_mbpand how you intend to use it00:33
timeless_mbpi don't actually like sql fwiw00:33
timeless_mbpbut, some of the alternatives are worse, and considerably less useful as knowledge portability goes00:34
timeless_mbp(well, most of them are actually)00:34
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Aksuit would be a simple (disc)golf resultkeeper00:34
VDVsxmikkov_, so it seems :(00:34
fralsafter doing a db in xml, sql is a godsend00:35
VDVsxX-Fade, We need you!!!!00:35
VDVsxcome back soon :P00:35
* realitygaps hating nokia for making him use windows for the first time in years00:35
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Aksuwell is there hibernate like technology for this00:36
Aksu(hibernate for java)00:36
GeneralAntillesrealitygaps, hopefully the FIASCO image will be out in a few days.00:37
timeless_mbprealitygaps: why do you need windows?00:37
timeless_mbpto grabb the image?00:37
Aksuor maybe it would be enough to write a databasemanager-class that gives out objects for some search parameters00:38
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Aksu(or forget about this and take the easy route :)00:39
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AksuShapeshifter: I'll check DTL00:40
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realitygapstimeless_mbp: to use the nokia software updater00:42
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timeless_mbprealitygaps: but why use it?00:50
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crashanddie__timeless, around?01:01
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pinchartlhi01:01
crashanddie__hi pinchartl01:01
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crashanddie__GeneralAntilles, around?01:02
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pinchartlis the N900 officially available ? maemo.nokia.com seems to say so, but I was supposed to receive a notification by e-mail01:07
Stskeepsshipping to stores01:07
pinchartlI hope they will ship fast :-)01:08
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lardmananyone know if librest.so.0.6.1 would be considered newer than librest-0.6.so.0.0.0?01:13
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crashanddie__lardman, yes01:17
lardmanhttp://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html section 8.6.301:18
crashanddie__lardman, actually, they might not be considered as the same lib01:18
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lardmanhow does that make any sort of bloody sense01:18
lardman?01:18
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lardmancrashanddie: cool01:18
lardmanlibz 1 zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.3)01:18
lardmanwhere does the zlib1g stuff come from01:18
lardman?01:18
lardmanmadness!01:18
lardmancrashanddie: yeah that's true, and fine by me01:19
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pupnik_haha01:22
pupnik_that librest-0.6.so.0.0.0 looks badly named01:23
timeless_mbpheh01:24
timeless_mbpit should be librest0.so.0.6.001:24
lardmanyeah01:24
timeless_mbpwho owns it01:24
lardmanI took it from debian like that01:24
lardmanme01:24
lardmanam about to name is something more sensible01:24
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limepianyone in here know about apple BT keyboards?01:26
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javispedroman, google street view is creepy01:29
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limepiwhat does "device resources exceeded" mean01:30
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timeless_mbplimepi: sounds like bluetooth01:30
timeless_mbpthe protocol basically says "ouch, i'm exhausted"01:31
limepiyeah, I'm trying to pair my apple BT keyboard01:31
timeless_mbplimepi: btw, if you're using English, please try my locale01:31
jeremiahHappy birthday frals01:31
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* timeless_mbp goes to fix something01:31
limepiI updated some time ago and it quit working, I tried to troubleshoot01:31
fralsthanks :)01:31
limepimy locale?01:31
limepilike, the proper layout?01:31
timeless_mbpactually01:32
timeless_mbpi just saw a non lame onscreen keyboard today (tuesday)01:33
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limepiso you're telling me that I have no recourse, essentially?01:34
timeless_mbpwell01:34
timeless_mbpi just got on01:34
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timeless_mbpso i missed the context01:34
timeless_mbpin general, you're supposed to get rid of other BT devices that are paired to it01:35
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limepiI've never had anyone do a BT troubleshoot walkthrough01:35
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timeless_mbpwell, i'm the wrong person01:37
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timeless_mbpi'm a translator01:37
timeless_mbpso i've read all the strings and tried to understand them01:37
tbftimeless_mbp: maemo5 has more C++ apps than just the browser01:37
timeless_mbpyou really want jhe01:37
limepihmm01:37
timeless_mbptbf: part of mail is c++ too01:37
timeless_mbpbut most of the platform isn't01:38
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timeless_mbpactually, maybe that's wrong01:38
timeless_mbpsince half the platform is built around the browser :)01:38
timeless_mbp(tutorial, messaging, maps)01:38
tbftimeless_mbp: even EDS got polluted with this C++ crap!01:39
javispedromessaging? O.o01:39
timeless_mbpthe renderer for messaging is a browser engine01:39
timeless_mbpafaik the rest of messaging is C01:40
timeless_mbpbut if you consider the fact that it's rendered by the browser, then... you can't not acknowledge C++01:40
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tbftimeless_mbp: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/evolution-data-server/addressbook/libebook-dbus/e-uchardet.cpp?revision=715&root=eds&view=markup01:42
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timeless_mbptbf: oh yeah, that's a gecko file :)01:42
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timeless_mbpwell...01:42
tbftimeless_mbp: well, just the glue for some gecko code01:43
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tbftimeless_mbp: the gecko code is there: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/evolution-data-server/libuchardet/?root=eds01:43
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tbftimeless_mbp: btw, do you know a better method than BrowserRespView to get a pannable browser widget in Maemo5?01:48
timeless_mbpsorry, ask romaxa01:48
tbfromaxa: ^^^?01:49
timeless_mbpi'm effectively upstream01:49
timeless_mbpit's ~2am01:49
timeless_mbphe left the office probably by 6pm or so01:49
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timeless_mbpwe left after 11pm01:49
javispedrook, there's now a clear photograph of my shorts hanging out in google earth.01:49
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tbftimeless_mbp: ok.01:50
jaemhey folks01:50
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tbfjavispedro: hope the are clean01:50
javispedros/earth/street view01:50
jaemI just picked up my (loaner) N900, and it won't charge :S01:50
jaemis there anything special that I should know about that?01:50
javispedrotbf: they are black (fortunately ;) )01:50
lardmanjavispedro: big shorts!01:50
tbfjaem: you have to use the nokia charger01:50
sp3000that /sounds/ like what you might want, but then I barely ever read code :)01:50
jaemtbf, oh really?01:50
jaema generic USB charger won't work?01:51
lardmanI know you can see the Great Wall of China and all... ;)01:51
javispedrothis is fuckingly scary01:51
tbfjaem: generic chargers usually only give 500 mA01:51
javispedrolardman: street view01:51
jaemtbf, this one is rated for 1A01:51
lardmanah ok :)01:51
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tbfjaem: hmm. strange. maybe just on paper.01:52
jaemtbf, I'll dig out my other charger01:52
tbfjaem: i once tried a cheap generic charger, and it even discharged the battery01:52
jaemmy prof had misplaced one of the Nokia chargers, so I don't currently have one >_<01:52
cehtehtbf: so the n900 cant be charged at a laptop usb port?01:53
sp3000it can01:53
cehtehi was wondering already01:53
sp3000although I think the results may be interesting if the laptop goes to sleep01:53
cehtehthat would be scary01:53
tbfcehteh: your laptop usually is a much better power source01:53
timeless_mbpso the n900 box had a nokia to usb adapter01:53
cehtehmy laptop provides usb power when sleeping01:53
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timeless_mbpwhich should let you use older nokia style chargers01:54
sp3000(some)01:54
cehtehtbf: nop it give a kernel errror "overcurrent on usb" ..01:54
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tbfcehteh: so unless you watch videos you can charge it with your laptop. you'll just have to wait for a while01:54
timeless_mbpstandard usb cables will allow 500mA if you're giving a usb service to a host01:54
timeless_mbpchargers will typically offer 1-1.2mA01:54
cehtehyeah ok01:54
timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure that in general a 1A charger should work, but i've never tried01:54
tbftimeless_mbp: no. typical usb chargers really just give 500 mA01:55
timeless_mbpreally?01:55
timeless_mbpyuck01:55
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cehtehusb is rated 500ma01:55
tbftimeless_mbp: once forgot my nokia charger and tried to buy an adequate charger01:55
cehtehone of the major faults imo .. they should have rated it 2A and fine01:55
tbftimeless_mbp: shop owners looked for the hidden camera when i told them that i need about 1A01:55
timeless_mbp"1 Amp High Output USB travel charger"01:55
timeless_mbptbf: lol01:56
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timeless_mbpi think the apple usb chargers are 1A01:56
timeless_mbpoh!01:56
jaemodd01:56
timeless_mbpi tried charging my n900 using a car's onboard port01:56
jaemmy other 1A charger doesn't work, either01:56
timeless_mbpwhich works for an iPhone01:56
timeless_mbpand it didn't work01:56
timeless_mbpit claimed to be charging01:56
timeless_mbpbut didn't charge01:56
timeless_mbpthat was odd :(01:56
jaemthe indicator isn't doing anything01:56
jaemI'll doublecheck lshal01:56
jaemnope - not charging01:57
* cehteh thought about charging from bike dynamo :P01:57
tbfcehteh: do you have a link for the 500 mA01:57
cehtehneeds some elektronic of course01:57
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cehtehtbf: actuall its even worse i think 50 (or only 20) mA are allowed without arbitation .. anyhing beyond has to be negotiated with the host controler01:58
lardmanhmm, my new librest looks like so: librest.so.0.0.001:58
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jaemtbf, a standard Nokia USB cable should work, right?01:58
lardmanso closer, but still no cigar01:58
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tbfcehteh: would be awesome to show it some lazy PM01:59
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tbfcehteh: he closed a bug about his software consuming > 600 mA, as invalid and asked for the spec :-D01:59
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tbf(fortunately for the device he got overruled)02:00
cehtehhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Power02:00
cehteheww .. some mainboards have 500mA soldered in smd fuses02:01
cehtehmeans when a device draws more then the mainboard is bricked02:01
tbfjaem: for charging via usb port? yes. it somewhat works. if your notebook doesn't have such fuses!02:01
cehtehat least that usb port02:01
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timeless_mbpcehteh: nice02:01
cehtehwell these are not common ... that was in the old days when usb was new02:01
cehtehtoday the current is limited by automatic fuses or even electronically regulated and shut down by a µC02:02
lardmananyone know how the libs are named?02:02
jaemwhen the N900 is powered off, is there any indication of it charging, like the N810 does?02:02
timeless_mbpjaem: yes02:03
timeless_mbpthe led /can/ light02:03
timeless_mbpor not, your choice02:03
jaemit's going "orange...orange...green...*ding*"02:03
timeless_mbpgreen=it thinks it's charged02:03
jaem:S02:03
jaemwell, lshal said about 21mAh02:03
javispedroI wonder who decided to send the google street bycicle down spanish villages02:04
GeneralAntillestbf, all of the USB wallwarts I've encountered output about 700-2000mA02:04
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jaemyay - now it's charging02:04
jaemweird02:04
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I've spotted a bunch of my friends wandering around town on street view.02:04
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: they've decided to do _very_ small towns now in spain02:05
tbfGeneralAntilles: seems you only interact with dealers that have the good stuff02:05
GeneralAntillestbf, :shrug: usual online places.02:05
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javispedrothe kind of towns I'd assume you would get shot at just by entering them in the US.02:06
GeneralAntilleslol02:06
mikhasI heard that's how you say hello over there02:06
tbfGeneralAntilles: seems those "usual online places" still sell better stuff than the average02:06
cehtehare there external (USB-Cable) battery packs?02:06
GeneralAntillesForeigners have strange ideas about the US.02:06
javispedro:)02:06
mikhasUS has strange ideas about the world, too =p02:06
GeneralAntillestbf, DealExtreme, Boxwave, Newegg, Amazon, etc.02:06
cehtehreading the wikipedia article such should be easy to build :)02:06
tbfGeneralAntilles: just enter a regular phone shop and ask for a micro USB charger02:06
jaemcehteh, yes, IOGear makes some good ones02:06
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jaemand what GA said02:06
GeneralAntillesmikhas, despite whatever you may think and whatever Hollywood has tried to teach you, the US is not the Wild West. :)02:07
tbfGeneralAntilles: i've tried several offline phone shops and they all only had crap chargers02:07
GeneralAntillestbf, for the price, I'd just pick up an AC-10 and call it a day. ;)02:07
VDVsxa Portuguese couple sued google because street view failed blurring their faces, eheheh02:07
lardmanah crap, why do librest, libchamplain and libethos all have to have silly libNAME-X.x.so.X.x.x naming schemes?!02:08
javispedroVDVsx: they have now "street viewed" nearly ALL towns of spain02:08
cehtehjaem: found it .. nice02:08
javispedrowhich is, at least, shocking02:08
mikhasGA, if it is not the wild west then I am not interested, thanks. please unsubscribe me from your newsletter and stop sending me those promo vids02:08
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tbf"Don't be evil!" :-D02:08
* SpeedEvil wants to openstreetview his local town.02:08
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VDVsxjavispedro, only the big ones here02:08
SpeedEvilIt's only 2-300G of imagery02:08
javispedroSpeedEvil: Google has done that to my birthplace!02:08
jaemtbf, "...unless it makes us loads of money"02:08
SpeedEviljavispedro: yeah - but the streetview imagery is very, very closed.02:09
mikhasMaking money is fulfilling the will of god, no?02:09
cehtehjaem: mhm only 2000mah .. but cheap02:09
SpeedEvilIn that you can look at it - but do nothing else02:09
jaemthe one I have fits in one of those old Motorola belt cases02:09
jaem...or am I the only one that likes having a utility belt02:10
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javispedroI don't know if Google "was feeling lucky" today with the lawsuits or what02:10
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javispedrocause I can count the blurred faces with my fingers -- the rest are clearly visible02:11
javispedroI can recognize a shitload of people02:11
timeless_mbphey02:11
timeless_mbpi'm not feeling lucky02:11
timeless_mbpcan someone find the official public source repos for "lsof", "klsof" and "glsof" ? :)02:12
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Corsacapt-cache show lsof | grep Homepage02:12
CorsacHomepage: http://people.freebsd.org/~abe/02:12
* timeless_mbp ponders02:13
timeless_mbphe doesn't have a vcs02:13
Corsacnot sure it's still worked on :/02:13
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timeless_mbpCorsac: it is02:14
timeless_mbpat least, it was recently enough for me to get into the credits :)02:14
Corsacuhuh02:14
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timeless_mbpseriously :)02:14
Corsacnew upstream releaes in oct 2007, sep 2008, feb 200902:14
Corsacdefinitely :)02:14
Corsacnot much, but still02:14
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Corsachey kalikianafk02:15
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tbftimeless_mbp: real man don't need no stinkin' vcs02:15
timeless_mbphow about klsof and glsof?02:15
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timeless_mbptbf: real men use the world as a dvcs?02:15
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kalikianafkCorsac, :D02:15
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crashanddie__~ping02:18
infobot~pong02:18
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b-man17~coin02:27
infobotcoin is probably flipped... heads or tails?02:27
luke-jr...02:27
b-man17~heads02:27
luke-jrb-man17: yandere02:28
b-man17k02:28
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lardmannight all02:49
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* wiretapped just watched http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxiOKKF721U WTF03:24
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* sp3000 grumbles at chatzilla and/or irssi03:25
sp3000it's really really useful to try to reclaim a nick 50 times at stupidly short intervals, and then give up after a stupidly short time total :)03:27
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sp3000(although the timeout in these parts seems to be a ...rather generous 10min?)03:28
n1c0hello maemo folks03:29
* sp3000 prefers exponential backoffs03:29
n1c0is maemo friendly to "ubuntu mid"03:30
SpeedEvilNo, it hates it, and tries to kill it on sight.03:31
n1c0where is the limit between nokia os and maemo ?03:33
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GeneralAntilleswiretapped, yeah, that's really bizarre.03:34
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GeneralAntillesn1c0, Nokia OS? i.e., S40?03:34
n1c0diablo5 maybe im lost03:34
derfWhy should any timer be needed at all if you're in a channel where your ghost is?03:34
GeneralAntillesn1c0, Diablo is Maemo 4.03:35
GeneralAntillesMaemo is the OS that ships on the 770, N800, N810 and N900.03:35
GeneralAntillesIt's based on Debian.03:35
n1c0maemo5 would be able only for n900 , or other tablet may have it too ?03:36
GeneralAntillesn1c0, it's only being officially released for the N900.03:36
GeneralAntillesn1c0, but the open source parts of that will be released for earlier devices with03:36
GeneralAntilles~mer03:36
infobotit has been said that mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer03:36
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, love your avatar. :P03:37
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n1c0with n810, i can't enter wpa passphrase with non-alphanumeric chars03:40
n1c0can i edit the psk-key by hand  to insert special chars ?03:40
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n1c0it s a strong limitation for an mobile device03:41
timeless_mbpthings are generally stored in gconf03:41
timeless_mbpwhether they work is another question03:42
timeless_mbpis there a bug filed?03:42
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n1c0no, i dont which app is the buggy wizard03:43
realitygapsthe n900 windows NSU updater frozen at 15 minutes remaining for over an hour. If i disconnect will I end up with a brick???? Any ideas?03:43
* realitygaps remembering why he ditched proprietary software all those years ago03:44
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lcukrealitygaps, it might be busy..03:47
realitygapslcuk: for so long? it seems nothing has moved since it started....03:48
* lcuk shrugs03:48
lcukeverything did go live today03:48
sp3000derf: I don't actually have a desire to touch it manually :)03:48
lcukpeople have been happily updating on the whole03:48
* lcuk beds anyway03:48
realitygapslcuk: i know, if consumers get these sorts of problems tho they will be pissed....03:48
sp3000derf: also, not paying attention until later, and having a off-by-one nick and a bunch of server spam03:49
realitygapscould it be completely bricked if i pull the cable?03:49
derfsp3000: I don't know what you're using in irssi, but keepnick.pl reclaims the nick immediately after the quit message.03:49
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sp3000derf: that sounds entirely too smart03:49
GeneralAntillesI like when you answer people's questions on Talk then they fly off into a rant like you tried to insult them.03:50
derfDidn't you quit Talk?03:50
* realitygaps pulls cable from n900 and prays to the FSM03:51
GeneralAntillesderf, yeah, staid clean for 5 days, now I'm trying just watching General/Community/Maemo 6.03:51
GeneralAntillesderf, it's not working. :(03:51
timeless_mbpheh03:52
timeless_mbpdrugs are bad for you03:52
sp3000realitygaps: yeah, when people talk about full screen mode, I'm just reminded of spaghetti03:52
derfI've been /.-free for exactly 8 years, to the day.03:52
GeneralAntillesderf, impressive.03:52
realitygapsderf. v. impressive :)03:52
* GeneralAntilles still loads digg every couple months out of old habit.03:52
* realitygaps is mostly on reddit03:53
derfI've managed to avoid both of those.03:54
realitygapswell pulling the cable didnt brick the device, had to hard reboot by pulling the battery and the rom is still .41-1003:54
derfAt least beyond the occasional, non-addictive visit when something else links there.03:55
dmj726Is there a ui element for a slide out menu like in this: http://imagebin.org/7116303:55
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pwnguinreddit / slashdot arent bad in moderation04:00
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jaem_n810hello folks05:00
jaem_n810I have a prerelease N900, and it seems to not have the /opt-y goodness05:03
jaem_n810is there any way of telling if it's safe to flash final FW onto the device?05:03
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tarekjaem_n810, I've been here for a while and I've seen, what I've understood as, many failures05:30
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* realitygaps n900 flashed successfully :)05:51
jaemoops... I got called away05:56
jaemrealitygaps, where did you get the FW image?05:56
GeneralAntillesC'mon, Nokia, throw the users of real operating systems a break here. :(05:56
jaemGA: ?05:57
GeneralAntillesjaem, retail image is currently only available through NSU.05:57
jaemah05:57
jaemwell, I have a box that I slapped a spare Windows license on a while back05:57
jaemI guess I can use that05:57
jaembut that is rather lame05:57
jaemregarding my previous question, do you know if there is any issue with flashing release FW on prerelease units?05:58
doc|workhmmm, why are nokia saying released in north america but you can't actually get it in canada and be sure it'll work?05:58
doc|workwork well that is05:58
GeneralAntillesjaem, at worst you may have to unpack the firmware image before flashing.05:58
jaemoh? why?05:58
GeneralAntillesdoc|work, work well?05:59
doc|workGeneralAntilles: I've heard here that people are only getting edge05:59
GeneralAntillesjaem, sometimes the PR FIASCO images don't have the prototype product codes in them.05:59
GeneralAntillesSo the flasher wont want to flash the image.05:59
GeneralAntillesIn which case you'll just have to do each part individually.05:59
jaemah, makes sense05:59
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GeneralAntillesdoc|work, yeah, same with AT&T in the US.05:59
GeneralAntillesThe Canadian 3G frequencies are the same.06:00
GeneralAntillesSo, no, no 3G for Canada or US AT&T customers.06:00
jaemheh... earlier I was trying to look up info on that, and without thinking, searched for "N900 fiasco"... then realized that probably wasn't a useful query06:00
doc|workyep. that was my point :/ so saying released in north america is a bit misleading06:00
GeneralAntillesThe cynical part of me says that was a part of the agreement with T-Mobile USA for subsidization.06:01
GeneralAntillesIt works on 3G on T-Mobile :roll:06:01
GeneralAntillesWhich basically means, "Nowhere"06:01
doc|workthat'd be fine if they'd come out and say it and then tell us how long that dumbass policy will be in place.06:01
GeneralAntillesYeah, it's pretty retarded.06:01
doc|workI'm not spending $700 on a phone only to have it not work to its full potential.06:02
GeneralAntillesConsidering that those same frequencies are used in Latina America, Canada, some parts of Asia and Australia.06:02
GeneralAntillesSo, it's not just some US customers they're fucking over.06:02
dragornDocScrutinizer: it's not going to change, at&t and tmobile use different frequencies for high-speed data in the US as far as I'm aware06:02
dragorner, doc|work.  Autocomplete failure.06:03
GeneralAntillesdragorn, shipping a device that supports both isn't difficult.06:03
doc|workdragorn: it could change if they released more variations on the devices.06:03
dragornGeneralAntilles: i suppose, if you care about that kind of thing06:03
doc|workhah06:03
dragorntends to impact device cost and manuf time06:03
GeneralAntillesdragorn, to add one frequency? :)06:03
doc|workthere are plenty of quad band phones06:03
doc|workmuch cheaper than the n900 too06:03
GeneralAntillesThe GSM modem already works with it.06:04
GeneralAntillesIt's just a matter of one more round of certification tests.06:04
doc|workunless I'm confusing those quad band with older technology06:04
GeneralAntillesI still say it was an agreement with T-Mobile.06:04
doc|workGeneralAntilles: not supported in the OS?06:04
GeneralAntillesdoc|work, OS just sends commands to a blackbox.06:05
doc|workGeneralAntilles: so could it be hacked in?06:05
GeneralAntillesNot supported by the firmware that's loaded on the GSM module.06:05
doc|workah06:05
GeneralAntillesWell, I'm sure it COULD.06:05
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doc|workbut it'd be very very difficult, right?06:05
GeneralAntillesWhether the time/money factor approaches anything even remotely sane, though.06:05
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* GeneralAntilles doesn't know enough about cellular modems to say.06:05
* doc|work about to get disconnected :/06:06
jaemGeneralAntilles: the N900 isn't listed yet on the NSU page.  Do you have a link to the download?06:09
jaemthe N810 download seems to be specific to the tablets, and I wasn't sure if the N900 was included in that designation06:09
jaemnvm... found it06:10
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dmj726hrm06:22
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dmj726I'm getting "error: hildon/hildon.h: No such file or directory" when trying to compile a test program in scratchbox06:33
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dmj726ugh...maemo.org is SLOW06:44
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dmj726Does maemo.org take anyone else more than a minute to load a page?07:07
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johnxallo all07:22
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johnxGeneralAntilles, really? that chipset actually supports quad-band WCDMA?07:25
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Proteousdmj726: yes, maemo.org is running off of a single overheated nokia 77007:30
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dmj726Despite the fact that NITs can run apache, I'm not sure I believe this.07:30
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johnxactually, for a small set of static files, an n8x0 should be fine07:34
johnxI used to run a wiki on a zaurus 550007:35
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RST38hHmm...Somebody has done HP42 =)08:25
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romaxatbf: pong08:31
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tigertmorngn09:17
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RST38hhello tigert09:18
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tigertjohnx: we ran websites on 486s with 8MB of ram, I bet a modest traffic site would run just fine on N900 :)09:20
* tigert remembers his pentium 90MHz with 16MB that ran the first versions of Gnome desktop09:21
* RST38h ran DNS, HTTPD, SMTPD, and developed applications on a single 100MHz Pentium box09:23
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RST38hWorked just fine09:23
kirmaI ran httpd and sshd on microvax09:23
kirmathat was really on verge of unusable09:24
tigert:)09:24
kirmasomething like 0.6 vax mips or whatever09:24
tigertthis is what I like about free software btw09:24
tigertwhenever you can run linux or bsd on it09:24
tigertyour software will work more or less09:24
tigertbe it a toaster or a PC09:25
RST38hkirma: We had microvaxen used by 40 people at a time09:25
tigertlike, worst case, I can do design work from any pc with a ubuntu live CD09:25
RST38hkirma: checking email, news, and programming09:25
kirmapublic key crypto on ssh handshake took like a minute on ssh209:25
tigertgimp + inkscape09:25
tigertkirma: :)09:25
RST38htigert: Try current KDE on a MicroVAX09:26
RST38htigert: Then revisit your statement09:26
kirmaRST38h: believable... if the software being run isn't written decade or two later than the system was sold09:26
tigertRST38h: should try gnome 1.0 and gimp 0.54 on current pc :)09:27
* tigert remembers fvwm1 and GoodStuffBar09:27
RST38hwindowmaker09:27
* RST38h remembers twm and olwm09:28
RST38hand athena too09:28
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RST38h"The Nokia N900 Isn't A Phone, It's A Psychotic Shapeshifter" (C)Engadget09:29
RST38hFunny, how this stupid video has started gathering public interest just now. Has been out for weeks...09:30
AveI want engadget full handson review, or any review09:30
Avethe 900 looks considerably thicker than 810, is it? and is it also heavier09:31
eienever held the 810, but I did try the 900 its not heavy at all09:31
RST38hAve: there is plenty of n900 reviews09:32
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* RST38h stands corrected: that was Gizmodo's quote =)09:32
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AveRST38h: of production units?09:34
AveI better start looking closer then ..09:34
eiecrap09:35
tigertAve: thicker, but smaller in other dimensions09:35
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tigertAve: I think N810 is heavier but I could be wrong09:36
eien900 sold for $833 here, you need to pay half price to reserve it09:36
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Ave810 feels quite heavy09:36
tigertave: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/4015744009/09:36
tigertAve: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/4031995550/ < its not _that_ big09:38
tigertiphone is bigger in width + height09:38
tigertjust thinner because it has no keyboard09:38
Avehmm nice09:38
eien810 Weight: 226 g        -        n900 Weight: 181g09:38
tigerteie: ok, so its lighter like I thought09:38
Aveapproaching portable isntead of luggable09:38
tigertN810 has more metal in the casing09:38
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Avemetal is good!09:39
tigertN810 was jacket pocketable09:39
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tigertN900 is jeans pocketable09:39
tigertat least in my use09:39
AveI had n810 in my jeans pocket but its not particularly comfy09:39
tigertand I dont listen to rap :)09:39
tigertAve: yeah09:39
tigertit fits but wasnt comfy09:39
eieI wonder if its a good decision to buy a nokia phone the moment it arrives or09:40
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eiewait couple of months till the fix the issues it has09:40
eiethey*09:40
AveI'm gonna hold on for a while09:41
eieplus a drop in price09:41
AveI recently got htc hero and I'm pretty sold on the android paltform ..09:41
Avejava, ugh! but other than that09:41
tigertAve: how is the hero in terms of speed/performance?09:42
tigerta friend had the Tmobile android phone and it was slow as heck so he gave up on it09:42
Avepretty weak sauce, its the last gen cpu and all09:42
diggernetave: is it true android will only let you open 6 apps?09:42
Avenot modern by any means, like omap2 when you really should have omap309:42
Avebut it is slick09:42
RST38hAve: Whatever they handed out at the Summit was pretty much a production unit09:42
RST38hAve: So you can peruse the current reviews09:43
Avediggernet: no, the last used apps list is 6 apps long tho09:43
eieanyone checked how many years of warranty you get for the n900?09:43
eiethey told me 1 year only in here09:43
RST38h1 year is a standard Nokia warranty09:43
RST38hso no surprises there09:44
eiethere were some nokai phones with 2 years09:44
AveI guess the only "modern" android phone out there is the motorola droid and I find it ugly09:44
eiedepends from where you get it09:44
Aveeircsson xperia following09:44
Suurorcanokia 1 year us, 2 years eu09:45
RST38h1 year in .ru09:46
zaheerm-lpi year uk09:46
zaheerm-lps/i/109:47
Suurorcawell, if it's one year in uk, just send it for repairs in some other eu country ;)09:47
eieheavy spec and expensive phone but only 1 year warranty09:47
eieso lame09:47
eieyou get 5 years warranty for a water heater09:48
Suurorcayes well, blaim your local legistlation09:48
zaheerm-lpcompanies tend to only give the minimim the law mandates09:48
Suurorcayeap09:49
Suurorcanothing new there09:49
eiebecause they want to sell a better phone next year09:49
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eieI hope I dont buy the n900 and they release n910 january 201109:49
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eiehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet09:51
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eieN800  January 200709:51
eieN810 October 200709:51
eieN810 WiMAX Edition  April 200809:52
tigertthe N810 didnt stop working yesterday, you know...09:52
eiedo the math lol09:52
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RofvenHi! I have a problem to check the signal strength on my nokia n810, I use the LibConIC Library and when i use the event.get_signal_strength...it returns a value that is very close to Intmax...what does it says about the signal strength? Plz help09:53
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diggernetthis may be a pointless question, but is there anyone here with an N900 who has ever reflashed it?  tigert? anyone?10:00
linfl683Hi! I have a problem to check the signal strength on my nokia n810, I use the LibConIC Library and when i use the event.get_signal_strength...it returns a value that is very close to Intmax...what does it says about the signal strength? Plz help10:01
_marcell_diggernet: I did10:01
Meki have flashed one a number of times as well...10:02
linfl683Does someone know how to get the signal strength?10:03
JaffaMorning, all10:03
diggernetah, good.  I have one that was attempted to be upgraded via Nokia Software Updater, but the update failed.  it won't boot, but it appears to turn on in flashing mode ok.  but I can't find an image to flash to it using flasher-3.5.  any suggestions?10:04
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MekI don't think images to flash with are already publicly available10:05
_marcell_I only used the command line flasher with the flash image. Like with the n81010:05
Mekand yes, I also used the cli flasher10:05
_marcell_I guess you have to wait until the flash image is publicly available for the n90010:05
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diggernetis there an image available within nokia intranet somewhere, not public?10:07
_marcell_diggernet: yes10:07
tigertdiggernet: I have reflashed maybe 100 times ;)10:07
Mekyes, there is10:07
tigertdiggernet: but I work for nokia, thus reflashing internal builds like every day to test them10:07
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_marcell_I guess that everyone who has access to flash images at this point works for nokia :)10:08
adeusor is a subcontractor10:08
diggernetI work for nokia also, but don't know where to go to find an image.  :)10:08
tigertask your manager :)10:09
zaheerm-lpwhat is the gtk event i need to handle for a long tap?10:09
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Xisdibiktigert: nokia spy!!! oh wait we want you here.. doh10:11
StskeepsXisdibik: there's very large numbers of nokians and subcontractors in here. part of community like all others10:12
XisdibikStskeeps: i know, i was jokin :)10:12
Xisdibikill be much more happy once my n900 arrives :)10:13
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linfl683Please, I have a project in school and have to know how to get the signal strength. Does somone know, or have a friend that knows?10:16
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Stskeepslinfl683: libiw?10:17
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linfl683Stskeeps: What is libiw?10:19
JaffaGeneralAntilles' email to -developers (should've gone to -users really) suggests that you can flash using Windows to the retail image?10:19
tigertXisdibik: you think I am the only one? :)10:20
tigertXisdibik: this is the maemo channel, where a lot of us hang around anyway10:21
Xisdibiktigert: nope, you guys are like flies! everywhere! ;) j/k10:21
tigert:)10:21
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Xisdibikif your allowed to say, was the maemo talk article about the n900's being shipped now true?10:22
samadis it possible to detect double tap10:22
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alteregoI guess no device programme for me then :'(10:22
tigert"10:23
tigertThe shipments of the Nokia N900 have now started. The factories are now working full speed and the devices are on their way to distribution.10:23
tigert"10:23
JaffaXisdibik: It's all over the Internet, including on Nokia Conversations10:23
tigertsays Ari in his blog10:23
XisdibikJaffa: yea but its hard to believe ;)10:23
tigerthttp://jaaksi.blogspot.com/10:23
tigertso it is as official as it can be :)10:23
alteregoI can't afford 500, that's so bad.10:23
samadis it possible to detect double tap as event10:24
* alterego dies a little inside ^.^10:24
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crashanddie__samad, you have to code it yourself10:25
Suurorcaneither can I, really, but... well. credit cards are nice =P10:25
crashanddie__samad, however, from what I understand at the summit, they might be thinking about "programmable events" for Maemo 610:25
samadusing timer and click event??10:25
crashanddie__samad, pretty much10:26
alteregoOh, it's because my karma wasn't above 200, great ..10:29
L0cutusre10:29
alteregoI heard nothing,10:29
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zaheerm-lpsamad, double tap is like a double click10:30
zaheerm-lpsamad, you can connect to button-press-event and if the event type is GDK_2BUTTON_PRESS10:31
zaheerm-lpsamad, then you have a double tap10:31
zaheerm-lpi currently am trying to figure out how to detect a long tap....10:32
zaheerm-lpsamad, in python it is gtk.gdk._2BUTTON_PRESS10:34
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Stskeepslinfl683: library for interfacing with wireless interface10:37
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alteregoI wonder, if I sell my N96 and N95 8G I'll be able to recoup enough cash to justify buying the N90010:40
alteregoI might just buy another N81010:40
alteregoMine is starting to die,10:40
alteregoThe touch screen is becoming very faulty.10:40
alteregoWhich means, soon, I'll have no tablet.10:41
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SpeedEviln810 prices seem to have risen on ebay/... oddly10:46
alteregoHeh10:46
alteregoProbably they know my situation :P10:46
Aveman, I'm gonna score big time10:47
Ave??? profit etc10:47
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samad<zaheerm-lp> : the application crashed10:47
zaheerm-lpsamad, ?10:48
samad GDK_2BUTTON_PRESS10:48
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samadwith the event10:48
zaheerm-lpsamad, you need to listen for button-press-event and check the event's type is _GDK_2BUTTON_PRESS10:48
samadg_signal_connect (my_plugin, GDK_2BUTTON_PRESS,10:51
samad    G_CALLBACK (home_on_button_double_tap_event), NULL)10:51
zaheerm-lpno no10:52
samad<zaheerm-lp> i use the line and create the method10:52
zaheerm-lpg_signal_connect (my_plugin, "button-press-event", ......10:52
zaheerm-lpand then in your callback, check event.type == _GDK_2BUTTON_PRESS10:52
samadok10:52
alteregoFuck it, I'm going to buy it.10:53
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Avehaha10:53
* alterego orders N90010:53
Aveyou'll get so bad buyers remorse10:54
Aveno sleep tonoght10:54
alteregoI don't care.10:54
alteregoI need it,10:54
alteregoMy N810 is dying,10:54
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alteregoThis is going to split me and my gf up for sure though10:54
alteregoSo, two birds one stone ^.^10:54
Aveyay, rationalization10:55
AveI'm a gadget geek so it wouldnt cause a break up10:55
Avea small spat perhaps10:55
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jXOk, so, on my 810, the default Media Player applet seems to be stuck using an out of date media list10:59
jXand I have no clu ehow to get it to refresh like Canola.10:59
jXany ideas?11:00
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zaheerm-lpwhere in hildon is it defined what the threshold for a long tap is?11:03
alteregoThat's Gtk+ not hildon, I believe11:08
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zaheerm-lpwhere in gtk+ is it? :)11:08
alteregoActually,11:08
alteregoAng on, I think I've got it somewhere.11:08
zaheerm-lpand is there a threshold or recommended way of detecting it?11:09
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eieis there release date for maemo 6?11:10
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zaheerm-lpeie, 2010 sometime is what was mentioned11:10
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eiezaheerm 1st/2nd/3rd quarter?11:11
alteregoHeh11:11
eieso much talks about n900 and maemo 611:12
eieany idea if we can update the n900 to maemo 6?11:12
alteregoeie, I'm pretty sure that's a yes.11:12
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alteregozaheerm-lp: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2007-June/000257.html11:16
alteregoI don't know if that's helpful11:16
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zaheerm-lpalterego, awesome, wonder why i don't see this documented anywhere in maemo5 docs11:18
alteregohttp://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/gtk/GtkWidget.html11:18
alteregoIt's there at the bottom ;)11:18
alteregoAre yopu interested in the timeout or do you want to use the event?11:19
dmj726are there any maemo python tutorials/examples?11:19
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zaheerm-lpalterego, the event, i didn't see it :)11:19
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alteregoAh, okay11:20
zaheerm-lpalterego, i saw long tap in the hildon ui pdf thing and a search for that got me nothing on google and on maemo.org!11:20
alteregoWell, the tap-and-hold event looks like what you need, registerable on any object derived from GtkWidget (obviously ;) and if you want to ge tthe state, you can query the GObject property "tap-and-hold-state"11:21
lbtalterego: eie: re "any idea if we can update the n900 to maemo 6?" .... I wouldn't count on it11:21
alteregoYou might need to call "gtk_widget_tap_and_hold_setup()" before you use it.11:21
alteregolbt, well, Mer then :)11:22
samadzaheerm-lp : the double tap also creates two single tap11:22
lbtit's possible... but there was no commitment at the summit11:22
samadfollowed by double tab11:22
alteregoIf it happens within the first half of next year, I'd be surpised if it wasn't available.11:22
zaheerm-lpsamad, yes it does11:22
samadhow can i distinguished it11:22
lbtI raised the point that a transition from M5 (gtk) to M6 (Qt)  without *any* live device testing and making M6 "mass market" was...... insane11:22
alteregosamad: just register the for the double tap even and ignore the single tap event.11:23
alteregoOh, they're moving completely to Qt?!11:23
* alterego vomits11:23
alteregoI mean ... YAY!11:23
samadBut I need to detect single tab and double tab both11:23
dmj726gtk will still have community support11:23
alteregosamad, what widget?11:24
samadapplet main window11:24
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wazdheya all11:25
Stskeepsmorning wazd11:25
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lbtalterego: indeed thay have made that most excellent decision :)11:26
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samadalterego, <zaheerm-lp> :But I need to detect single tab and double tab both11:35
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dmj726are there any maemo python tutorials/examples?11:37
zaheerm-lpdmj726, plenty11:38
zaheerm-lpdmj726, what kind of example do you want?11:38
dmj726something simple11:38
ensif = u'hello'11:38
dmj726I just want to get a simple graphical app going.11:38
ensiprint f11:38
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zaheerm-lpdmj726, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/z/zoutube/zoutube_0.1-4.tar.gz11:39
zaheerm-lpdmj726, there is only one source file there, it is a pretty small app and it has a gstreamer video windget in there too11:40
samad<zaheerm-lp > any idea??11:40
zaheerm-lpsamad, all i can suggest is you add a timer when receiving first button-release and if the 2nd tap hasn't been detected by then say it is a single tap11:41
zaheerm-lpsamad, but there may be a better way.....11:41
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dmj726how do I bring up a terminal in scratchbox?11:45
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zaheerm-lpdmj726, you're already in a terminal :)11:51
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dmj726hmm unable to load12:06
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dmj726does maemo 5 come with python 2.5?12:08
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GuySofthi all, is there a way to get a map of egypt for 'maps'?12:15
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RST38hhttp://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/10724_A_Qt_powered_S60_interface_loo.php12:16
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JaffaGuySoft: Which "Maps"? N900 Ovi Maps or N8x0 Wayfinder Maps12:16
RST38hTake alook (some apps appear to be using S60 still)12:16
GuySoftJaffa Wayfinder N81012:17
GuySoftJaffa if there is any other vector map that would do too..12:18
JaffaGuySoft: Only data is available to download from http://www.navicoretech.com/Consumer/Support/Downloads/tablet/en_GB/wfnavigator/ - I dunno if any of those include Egypt12:18
ccookeMorning, all12:18
GuySoftJaffa they dont12:19
JaffaGuySoft: Only other option, if you want vector, is OpenStreetMap in GPXView (for example)12:20
GuySoftmiddle east is strangely the areb states12:20
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GuySoftJaffa is there another way to get a navigation tool for that area?12:22
VDVsxRST38h, it's a layer only12:23
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JaffaGuySoft: Maemo Mapper uses bitmaps, e.g. from Google Maps12:23
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GuySoftJaffa, yes but no svg12:24
JaffaGuySoft: Indeed.12:24
JaffaGuySoft: Those are your options AIUI12:24
GuySoftJaffa, also, ii need to have it offline12:24
GuySoftmapper needs a connection12:24
SpeedEvilThere are various openstreetmap progtrams that might run, but would need variable amounts of hacking.12:25
SpeedEvilincluding offline. Look at the wiki12:25
SpeedEvil(the openstreetmap wiki)12:25
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GuySoftopwnstreetmap does not have all the streets, isnt there a way to get maemo mapper to work offline?12:27
JaffaGuySoft: Maemo Mapper only needs a connection for navigation. It can show maps and location using pre-downloaded data12:27
GuySoftJaffa, i know, is there a way to tell it to download a area in advance?12:29
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dmj726hmm I like the application manager now that I know about red pill mode12:30
GuySoftdmj726 apt-get stilll is better in solving some things12:31
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GuySoftis there a way to get mapper to have offfline maps?12:34
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SpeedEvilAlso, you can add streets to OSM - but yes.12:46
dmj726zaheerm-lp: any ideas why zoutube would fail?12:46
prometoyshi, is it normal, that I can't change the server addresses of an IMAP account in modest12:48
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* RST38h responds to an Oct2009's comment. Was that the right thing to do?12:50
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zaheerm-lpdmj726, fail where?12:52
dmj726it shows the window opening, then fails.12:53
dmj726...takes a few seconds to fail though12:53
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zaheerm-lpdmj726, did you install it as a package?12:53
dmj726yes12:53
zaheerm-lpdmj726, and how do you run it?12:53
zaheerm-lpfrom the menu icon?12:53
dmj726yes12:53
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GuySoftis navit worth anything?12:54
zaheerm-lpok, try running it in a terminal: /opt/zoutube/zoutube12:54
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zaheerm-lpor if you're on scratchbox, do: run-standalone.sh /opt/zoutube/zoutube12:55
pupnik_heh at qwertz12:55
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dmj726ImportError: No module named hildon12:55
dmj726Traceback (most recent call last):12:55
dmj726  File "/opt/zoutube/zoutube", line 39, in <module>12:55
dmj726    import hildon12:55
dmj726ImportError: No module named hildon12:55
zaheerm-lpdmj726, in device or scratchbox?12:55
dmj726scrathbox12:56
dmj726I wish I could get it to fail on the device I don't have12:56
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zaheerm-lpdmj726, ah looks like i missed a dep12:57
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zaheerm-lpdmj726, install python-hildon12:57
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zaheerm-lpdmj726, in meantime i'll build a new package12:57
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dmj726I don't see a hildon-python12:59
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lizardodmj726: it is "python-hildon"13:00
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zaheerm-lpapt-cache search python-hildon13:00
zaheerm-lppython-hildon - Python bindings for Hildon Framework.13:00
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dmj726yeah...it seems to be missing13:01
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lizardodmj726: do you have the extras-devel repository added to your scratchbox target /etc/apt/sources.list ?13:01
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dmj726I just tried to install another python app and it says it can't install it.13:02
dmj726yes13:02
zaheermlizardo, python-hildon is not in extras or extras-testing ?13:02
lizardozaheerm: it is in testing13:03
lizardozaheerm: but for scratchbox development it is recommended to have extras-devel in /etc/apt/sources.list13:03
dmj726oops13:03
dmj726didn't do testing13:03
dmj726just extras and devel13:03
dmj726adding now13:03
zaheermyes so he needs extras-testing13:03
zaheerm:)13:03
lizardodmj726: I don't believe that's the issue, because in this case you would have pulled the package from extras-devel... something else is missing :)13:04
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zaheermis python-hildon in -devel and -testing?13:05
lizardozaheerm: yes, it is in both repositories13:05
zaheermok13:05
dmj726seems like python bindings are somehow an issue13:06
dmj726pidgin works fine13:06
lizardozaheerm: the main reason to have extras-devel in your scratchbox target is because the autobuilder also has it, so if you don't have it in your target you might risk using a dependency whose version is older than the one that will be promoted to extras-testing...13:07
zaheermlizardo, understood13:07
lizardobreakfast time :) brb13:07
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dmj726I don't see python-hildon in anyof the repos13:11
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zaheermdmj726, can you pastebin your sources.list13:11
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dmj726deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/sdk free non-free13:12
dmj726deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/sdk free13:13
dmj726deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/tools free non-free13:13
dmj726deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/tools free13:13
dmj726deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/PRIVATE-TOKEN-CODE-CENSORED nokia-binaries13:13
qwerty12Nokia's gonna be after your ass, now...13:13
dmj726?13:13
qwerty12Exaggeration, but your nokia-binaries token shouldn't be shared13:14
dmj726oh13:14
dmj726Nobody look13:14
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zaheermdmj726, i see no extras-devel13:15
dmj726added in the app manager13:15
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zaheermbtw python-hildon def in extras-devel http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/p/python-hildon/13:16
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zaheermdmj726, add to sources.list: deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free non-free13:17
zaheermdeb-src http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free non-free13:17
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dmj726still no13:21
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zaheerm-lpdid you: apt-get update ?13:24
zaheerm-lpthen: fakeroot apt-get install python-hildon13:24
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zaheerm-lpor fakeroot apt-get update even13:25
zaheerm-lpbefore fakeroot apt-get install python-hildon13:25
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dmj726aha!13:26
dmj726works aside from the fact that carl sagan is now blue13:27
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zaheermdmj726, blame scratchbox video acceleration i think :)13:30
pupnik_heh, all your video going over loopback13:32
qwerty12bug 487013:32
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4870 Red & blue color channels swapped sometimes in SDK13:32
zaheermdmj726, works properly in the device i assure you :)13:33
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lardmanmorning13:33
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dmj726I'm sure nokia wouldn't release a device with reversed colors13:35
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dmj726I hope not anyway13:35
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dreamer_in scratchbox why would I be able to run links repository.maemo.org and have it load correctly, but not resolv repoisitory.maemo.org for apt-get update?13:37
lardmanqwerty12: well your changes run, as expected ;)13:37
qwerty12lardman: With toolbar?13:38
lardmanyeah13:38
qwerty12Knock yourself out with the rest ;)13:38
lardmanbut the Fremantle toolbar is larger than the gtk one, so we lose even more space13:38
lardmanI found an email about rebasing the menu, so that's a start13:39
qwerty12It's all in the name of finger-friendliness... Repeat after me: finger-friendliness, finger-friendliness...13:39
lardmanam considering iterating through menu items and adding them to a hildon menu13:39
lardmanlol yeah13:39
lardmanwell one of those pop up toolbars like the browser sounds like a plan to me ;)13:39
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lardmanalso having the sidebar pop up would be better use of the screen13:40
lardmanwill have to look through the widget list and see what would do the job13:40
lardman~lart guis13:40
* infobot installs a bad bootloader on guis and turns guis into a brick13:40
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dmj726Hey, it's working13:43
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* lardman is disappointed no-one has commented about libaddress13:45
andre__jeremiah, can you remove maemo-recorder 0.3.0 from the -testing repository? it has been superseded by Recorder 0.3.1 which is also already in -testing13:46
* lardman thinks package authors need a way of removing their own packages13:46
cehtehsome day the admins will be pissed enough :)13:47
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* lardman sends beer13:47
andre__lardman, yes.13:47
lardmanso would a hildon_ui_manager thing be acceptable, even though it avoids people needing to re-write their menus? :)13:48
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qwerty12lardman: That was discussed in the #maemo-meeting regarding the QA process, and it was suggested that a thumb down by the maintainer on the package would allow for its removal from the QA list at least. Now if only we could get our stuff removed from extras-devel...13:49
lardmanqwerty12: thanks, I'll have a read of the minutes13:49
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dmj726zaheerm-lp: Good news!  I'm able to tweak the zoutube app.  Bad news!  I've managed to mangle the GUI!13:54
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zaheermdmj726, great13:55
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jaemdmj726, woo13:57
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dmj726thanks for all your help!13:58
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* dmj726 probably shouldn't've stayed up until 6am, but oh well.13:59
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jaemdmj726, you're on IRC... that's a given ;)14:01
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dmj726This maemo system is great (speaking from scratchbox experience only of course)14:03
lardmandmj726: you must be using a different sb to the rest of us ;)14:03
dmj726It does lag14:03
dmj726But I can really feel the awesomeness of the OS.14:04
dmj726Mostly, it's the apps that are convincing me of this.14:04
dmj726Most of my day-to-day apps are already ported, or there is an equivalent.14:05
* lardman takes one look at the GtkUiManager code and decides that writing your own is a better bet14:06
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cehtehhehe scratchbox on my 1.2ghz laptop with inferior intel graphics really sux14:06
lardmanI never use the graphics stuff in sb14:06
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dmj726Pidgin is nice14:07
dmj726off-the-record should be ported though14:08
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lardmanif it's not integrated I'm not insterested14:09
dmj726it could use some tweaking, but I'm glad it's here.14:09
dmj726lots of apps in the works though.14:10
jeremiah_VDVsx: Have you seen mgedmin?14:11
jeremiah_I would love to get the logs from yesterday. :)14:11
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VDVsxjeremiah, nop :(14:12
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jeremiah_:)14:13
jeremiah_I'll send him an email. :)14:13
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cehtehanyone yet hacked the flash leds of the camera to use them as lights? dimmed?14:16
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woglindejo14:16
tank-manwouldn't that drain the power fast?14:16
dmj726tank-man: I bet it would.14:17
cehtehhi woglinde :)14:17
woglinde~karma14:17
infobotwoglinde has neutral karma14:17
woglindepff14:17
dmj726It would make an awesome flashlight for short periods of time though14:17
zaheermdmj726, the telepathy haze plugins should remove any need to use pidgin14:17
dmj726...and you're guaranteed to be the only one around with a phone that does it.14:17
cehtehtank-man: dimmed, not full power, the heat wont be manageable anyways14:18
SpeedEvilI have doubts that the LEDs will be rated to be run all the time14:18
tank-mancamera flashes usually aren't directly powered by a battery, they are powered by a capacitor, which is powered by the battery14:18
SpeedEvilyou will need to PWM them at 25% or so I suspect14:18
SpeedEvilIt will still be quite bright14:18
lcukcehteh, peter demonstrated it at a conf14:18
SpeedEviltank-man: not LEd flashes14:18
woglindejo cehteh14:18
SpeedEviltank-man: typically anyway14:18
cehtehSpeedEvil: exactly14:18
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cehtehmaybe even 10% or less14:18
woglindehm only 11 karma points14:18
* lcuk already has a torch on n900 tho14:18
lcukstrangely enough it works on n810 too ;)14:18
SpeedEvillcuk: Sure - it's very inefficient, compared to the LEDs - in terms of power use.14:19
cehtehthey will pretty instantly overheat at full power14:19
lardmanapply lighter fluid to plastic parts, add spark14:19
jaemlcuk, just got my N900 today - liqflow is pretty sweet14:19
woglindewhy uploading apps to extras dont count as karma14:19
lardmanwoglinde: good point14:19
SpeedEviljaem: Did you purchase it?14:19
timeless_mbpjaem: have you installed my package? :)14:19
lardmanperhaps # of downloads would be better though14:19
woglindelardman thanks14:19
lcukjaem, then do a full testing cycle and rate it please http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/14:19
jaemSpeedEvil, no - prerelease loaner through my uni14:19
SpeedEvilah14:20
jaemtimeless_mbp, which one?14:20
lcuknot just liqflow, but do as many of the apps as possible14:20
lcukits cool and only a start :)14:20
jaemlcuk, I'll see what I can do, but this week is killer paper week >_<14:20
lcukok :P just liqflow then since you have tested it14:20
dmj726what do you know the telepathy plugins add support for all the IM accounts I use14:21
jaemSpeedEvil, apparently my prof convinced someone at Dev Days to loan him a couple, since the one we ordered wasn't going to be here in time :P14:21
dmj726WHy aren't these plugins bundled?14:21
jaemit's pretty awesome14:21
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SpeedEviljaem: neat.14:21
jaemI noticed the camera app I used popped up a banner saying that image quality depends on hardware and firmware revision... does anyone know if the release models have better webcam quality?  I sincerely hope so14:22
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dmj726zaheerm-lp: Why aren't the telepathy plugins included?14:22
SpeedEviljaem: reportedly not.14:22
zaheermdmj726, ask nokia14:23
jaemSpeedEvil, :/14:23
ShadowJKhow's the "webcam" quality? Like N8x0?14:23
SpeedEviljaem: the front webcam anyway is likely to be bad - simply as it's a chip probably costing $114:23
dmj726they quadruple the usefulness of the IM client14:23
jaemShadowJK, mine is worse, from what I can see14:23
jaemSpeedEvil, fair enough, but mine is pretty awful14:23
ShadowJKis that indoors or outdoors?14:23
dmj726As long as it's usable enough for video conferencing.14:24
cehtehwell it prolly wont draw much power,14:24
jaemShadowJK, both, although the lighting in my dorm isn't great, so it may not be as bad I as I think14:24
jaemdmj726, it is, but it isn't pretty14:24
dmj726is it good enough to check if you have helmet hair?14:25
cehtehi am tinking about having an app capturing 1 frame per minute and store it (if its not dark) .. gettings some history from where i have been, and just in case it gets stolen, uploading this to my server :)14:25
jaemout of curiousity, does the Internets have any pictures of the retail packaging yet, that anyone knows of?14:25
jaemdmj726, probably14:25
jaemcehteh, Diablo has something similar14:25
dmj726if it does those, it's good enough for me.14:25
cehtehalso some gesture recognition with vga cam would be nice :)14:25
pupnik_ Nlol14:26
* jaem points and laughs at dmj726's helmet hair14:26
cehtehwell and i want to experiment with cryted filesystem :P14:26
SpeedEvilAlso motion would be good.14:26
dmj726the one downside to having a bike on campus.14:26
SpeedEvilSet it up on the little kick-stand, so it goes 'bing' when someone comes into frame14:26
jaemdmj726, heh... yeah14:26
dmj726cehteh: you'll want otr too then!14:26
jaemSpeedEvil, Bing, as in "Bing Is Not Google"? ;)14:26
pupnik_webcam on such a device should do hardware mpeg4 to offload cpu14:26
dmj726cehteh: you're on lumiera, right?14:26
cehtehface recognition for login/unlock would be nice too14:26
cehtehdmj726: yes14:27
pupnik_save power14:27
SpeedEviljaem: no, bing as in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arCITMfxvEc14:27
SpeedEvil(0:15)14:27
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* timeless_mbp chuckles14:29
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* timeless_mbp needs a component for bugs in zenity14:29
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jaemSpeedEvil, heh... that's "Ping!"14:30
timeless_mbphrm14:30
timeless_mbphow the heck does one actually get a yes-no dialog in maemo5?14:30
jaemg'night, #maemo14:31
ShadowJKwill the question to a yes-no dialog be something like you "Do you not want to not switch the foo off-switch off?"14:31
jaemyes!14:31
* Stskeeps ponders buying a ss420014:32
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woglindestskeep what?14:32
SpeedEvilI'm guessing it's a hovertank.14:32
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* SpeedEvil ponders finishing off his design sketch of a hoverboard.14:33
Stskeepswoglinde: intel nas14:33
Stskeepshackable, too14:34
Stskeepsserial port joy :)14:34
woglindehm nas14:34
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Stskeepsand kinda cheap14:35
zaheermis there a download manager dbus service i can just call in maemo?14:35
lardmanwhile we're talking about input, does anyone want to look at why flite won't output directly to the speakers?14:36
lardmanwell flite is output of course, but pocketsphinx also works and that's input ;)14:36
woglindelardman gstreamer problem?14:36
lardmannot gstreamer, though I should try building that element, it uses alsa14:36
woglindelardman wouldnt it be saner to let it uses gstreamer?14:37
_|Nix|_*sigh* ... is there nobody who can make me the maintainer of pidgin? I've already uploaded, like 4 versions of it, but I can't promote it to extras-testing because I'm not the maintainer. I'm not the maintainer because somebody named "Jonny Lamb" uploaded a different version earlier. Probably the one from Diablo.14:37
lardmanwoglinde: sure, but the gstreamer plugin is separate, and I was just trying to test my flite build14:38
wjtPresumably Jonny could14:38
wjtyou could email him <jonny.lamb@collabora.co.uk> or message him (he's jonnylamb on IRC)14:38
woglindenix there should be an email14:38
woglindewrite to him14:38
_|Nix|_Oh, OK.14:38
woglindehm14:38
woglindewjt hm let me check whats the debian package is14:38
wjtor you could talk to him on XMPP (using his email address as his JID)14:38
woglindeah okay14:39
woglindeari is debian maintainer14:39
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Jaffa_|Nix|_: have you clicked the "Request to be made a maintainer" in the packages/ page?14:40
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_|Nix|_Jaffa: I have.14:42
_|Nix|_Jaffa: At least, the button is not there anymore.14:42
Jaffa_|Nix|_: OK, so an email asking him to follow up on that seems sensible; escalating it to -developers if you think you need to break the process as the maintainer is uncontactable.14:43
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_|Nix|_Jaffa: Well, I've /msg-ed him now.14:43
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dmj726grr...cannot join #maemo from maemo14:44
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lardman?14:45
tigertfrom maemo?14:45
dmj726the conversations app won't let me join a channel14:45
tigertyou mean the device?14:45
tigertoh, the telepathy irc plugin?14:46
dmj726yeah (maemo 5 in scratchbox14:46
JaffaMaemo 5 "Conversations" has no support for multi-user chat in the UI14:46
dmj726yes14:46
tigertyea, there is no group chat in the chat app14:46
Jaffadmj726: Use irssi in X Terminal or an IRC client such as X-Chat14:46
dmj726hopefully it can be added somehow.14:46
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lardmandmj726: +114:46
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dmj726lack of group chat, otr, and default inclusion of more im protocols are the only weaknesses of the conversations app.14:47
lardmanI'm not sure the protocols can be included14:48
lardmanlegally14:48
lardmanor at least that was my understanding, hazy though14:48
DocScrutinizerwoglinde: what's the basic audio system of maemo anyway? OSS (/dev/dsp)? Generic ALSA-devices? some special maemo-proprietary?14:48
lardmanpulseaudio14:48
zaheermDocScrutinizer, pulseaudio14:48
zaheermDocScrutinizer, but you can use alsa and it will use pulse's alsa emulation14:49
DocScrutinizerhmm, never knew PA has generic soundcard drivers14:49
zaheermwell maemo has multiple audio out possibilities14:49
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zaheermbluetooth audio as well as internal speakers and headphones14:50
DocScrutinizersure14:50
Jaffadmj726: Also, having the extra protocols external means not having to wait for Nokia to ship an update if the format changes.14:50
zaheermplus mixing requirements etc. from different apps14:50
zaheermso pulseaudio is the lowest level layer that should be used14:51
zaheermthe alsa implementation is above pulseaudio in the stack14:51
zerojaylardman: "hazy" is a perfect word for that since you need to install telepathy-haze.. ;)14:51
DocScrutinizerzaheerm: I'm aware there are janus-adapters PA->ALSA, ALSA->PA, even OSS->ALSA14:52
dmj726Jaffa: I see the point, but most users aren't going to find it and will assume they can't do aim, yahoo, msn, etc14:52
zaheermdmj726, that's why these should be upgraded to extras and also maemo select14:52
DocScrutinizerzaheerm: but I never seen a soundcard driver that's not based on ALSA - though I have to admit I didn't a thorough search14:53
zaheermDocScrutinizer, the low level sound driver is an alsa driver14:53
dmj726maemo select would be my vote14:53
zaheermDocScrutinizer, just it is not usable on the device14:53
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DocScrutinizeraah, ok. So that's what I expected, basically14:53
zaheermDocScrutinizer, pulseaudio has control of the hw audio14:54
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Jaffadmj726: Which is why the various account plugins currently in extras-testing need polishing and pushing into Extras14:54
JaffaOr, "maemo.org Applications" as the next Maemo 5 version will call it.14:54
DocScrutinizerzaheerm: thanks for the explanations :-)14:54
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zaheermJaffa, when will that naming happen?14:55
dmj726they're not really extras, more like essentials14:55
lopzhi ;)14:55
beatpanichi people14:56
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beatpanicone question: if I buy the n900 in america it will work with eurpoean carriers?14:57
beatpanichope not to be offtopic14:57
beatpanic:)14:57
dmj726it should.14:58
dmj726It will have the same radios14:58
beatpanicvery cool14:59
beatpanicI have doubts for power supply14:59
beatpanicalso14:59
tekojobeatpanic, usb charging, works everywhere15:00
beatpanictekojo, fantastic =)15:00
beatpanicok I'm fine15:00
beatpanicthanks :)15:00
tekojous naturally has a different charger as the wall plugs are different15:00
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beatpanictekojo, yep15:00
tigertchargers usually are 110-240V pretty much everywhere, arent they?15:01
zaheermthe chargers are 110-240v15:01
dmj726my eee pc charger works across the pond15:01
zaheermbut a micro-usb charger from europe should cost pennies15:01
tekojoyes, chargers are universal, if only travelling, bathrooms usually have universal wall plugs too :-)15:02
Jaffazaheerm: According to qgil the December maintenance release will include "maemo.org Applications" enabled by default15:03
zaheermJaffa, enabled by default, awesome15:03
dmj726cool15:03
Jaffahttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3279#c1015:04
povbotBug 3279: Streamlining user access to the Extras repository15:04
jeremiah_Stop being awesome Jaffa.15:06
tigertman15:06
tigertthat asylum video is still making me wtf :D15:06
Jaffajeremiah_: Don't worry; I'm running out of awesomeness. I expect someone's leaching it from me.15:07
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dmj726http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1438608&cid=3005271015:08
mikkov__tekojo: linux flashable image on its way?15:10
zaheerm"The 300 Nokia N900 devices we loaned in the Maemo Summit include software release from early October. This software cannot be updated with Nokia Software Update (NSU) even if NSU identifies the software we are shipping now i.e. 42-11. This is due to updates in the lower software stack in the pre-production models. People would need to use a special software that is able to update the lower stacks of the software of the devices. We are cu15:10
zaheermrrently investigating whether and how we can enable this."15:10
mikkov__n900 firmware that is15:10
ccookezaheerm: ... eek.15:10
Jaffazaheerm: Erk15:10
ccookeIf that's the case, I might be returning this handset sooner than planned :-/15:11
zaheermthat is from Peter@Maemo15:11
Jaffazaheerm: Let me guess, this is somewhere in the pits of despair and villainy that is tmo?15:11
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zaheermJaffa, yah http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=372295&postcount=1715:11
dmj726interesting that n900 gets mentioned in th slashdot comments15:12
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tekojomikkov_ coming, coming. Just a bit of patience more15:12
auenfif 42-11 would flash onto a n81015:12
auenferr, if only15:12
jeremiah_Hopefully that is not the case with the developer program N900s15:12
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jeremiah_And one has to send the N900s from the summit back anyway, so this is not that big a deal.15:13
jeremiah_mgedmin: Hi :)15:13
mgedminhi!15:13
jeremiah_Do you have logs from yesterday's QA meeting?15:13
jeremiah_=]15:13
mgedminI should15:13
mgedminlemmesee15:13
jeremiah_cool beans.15:13
jeremiah_I failed to get irssi to log it. :/15:13
tekojozaheerm I think that test translates roughly to : you need to use the flashing tool, not NSU15:14
tekojos/test/text15:14
zaheermtekojo, ok, the "whether" part is the bit that troubled me :)15:14
mgedminjeremiah_, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog15:15
jeremiah_mgedmin: Thank you!15:15
tekojozaheerm funny choise of wording, I agree15:15
zaheermtekojo, :) ok i guess from your comments its a matter of time and not if it will happen15:16
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tekojozaheerm yes it will happen, and the time frame isn't hopefully too long either15:18
tekojomorning stemosco!15:18
zaheermtekojo, great15:21
ccooketekojo: that's a relief!15:22
* ccooke was worried for a while that his wife would have a prime opportunity to get back at him for getting the tablet first ;-)15:23
tekojono, just a question of how to do things, not a question of whether to do things15:23
* dmj726 suspects his mum has her eye on an n90015:24
ccooke(I am so looking forward to her tablet arriving (hopefully next week)... she keeps stealing mine)15:24
zaheermccooke, luckily my wife has her own...though i can iomagine our bill to be a lot come april when we have to send ours back15:25
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Jaffatekojo: eMMC changes which need to be flashed?15:28
tekojoJaffa ... let me check that one15:28
ccookezaheerm: ah, you were both at the summit?15:29
JaffaMost immediate thing which springs to my mind if NSU can't handle the update15:29
zaheermccooke, yep15:29
mgedminany news on the n900 firmware image?15:29
ccookezaheerm: very nice.15:29
alteregoDoes M5 not use an evolution backend?15:29
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ccookemgedmin: read up, we're just talking about it.15:29
tekojoJaffa no that's not it. Actually the emmc should be fine15:29
Jaffaalterego: For what? It uses Evolution for contacts, calendar, ...15:29
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Jaffatekojo: Oh, interesting.15:29
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alteregoJaffa, that's what I thought, just couldn't see it in the API reference.15:29
zaheermmgedmin, <tekojo> zaheerm yes it will happen, and the time frame isn't hopefully too long either15:29
tekojoJaffa the user guide may be outdated, but that doesn't matter15:30
mgedminokay, so not yet15:30
Jaffaalterego: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Using_Address_Book_API#Evolution_Data_Server15:30
Jaffatekojo: I've never read it ;-)15:30
alteregoOh, found it :)15:30
alteregoHeh, yeah, was being blind15:30
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tekojoJaffa, I usually delete it as a last resort when I run out of space15:30
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ccookezaheerm: My wife was due a phone upgrade, so I grabber her one through mobilephonesdirect.co.uk. Given she already had a reasonably high-cost contract, it's only going to cost us another £5 a month :-)15:31
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alteregoWhat's the relationship between evolution and "calendar-backend" ?15:31
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zaheermccooke, my upgrade was due in february, so i switched to a simplicty one month at a time contract...hers has 6 months to go15:32
cosmobtw is there something special needed to make app icon to be displayed in fremantle? i've got a 26*26 png and it's set in .desktop file15:32
alteregoSVG! :P15:32
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cosmobut only the blue default icon is displayed15:32
zaheermcosmo: in app menu or in app manager?15:33
cosmomenu15:33
zaheermwhere did you put the png?15:33
tigerthmm15:34
Jaffacosmo: 26x26 icons aren't used in the menu15:34
tigertso how the heck does this conboy sync stuff work in conboy unstable?15:34
tigertor does it?15:34
cosmozaheerm: /usr/share/icons/app/15:34
Jaffacosmo: They're 64 (or 48). There also is a bug whereby they don't seem to show up immediately (sometimes only after installing another app, IME)15:34
tigertthere is just this url field and authenticate button, what does it expect? webdav? what? eh?15:34
mgedmina Snowy server maybe?15:35
* mgedmin no clue15:35
mgedminhttp://live.gnome.org/Snowy15:36
beatpanicn900 has a digital compass?15:36
Corsacdon't think so15:36
beatpanicok15:37
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cosmoJaffa: is this documented anywhere? or should i just resize it to 64*64?15:37
lardman|homedoes anyone know if geoclue builds for Fremantle?15:38
Jaffacosmo: icon sizes for menu is documented, yes ;-)15:38
* lardman|home needs some geolocation services15:38
thplardman|home: tried cityinfo already?15:39
crashanddielardman|home: network/ip based or?15:39
thphttp://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/cityinfo/15:39
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lardman|homethp: cityinfo it just for the stuff on the map app15:39
lardman|homecrashanddie: yeah, web lookups15:39
thplardman|home: ah, ok. ignore that reply e-mail i sent some minutes ago, then ;)15:40
lardman|homeI need to translate from the @ Bath message string on the end of my contact, to a lat/lon15:40
lardman|homenp :)15:40
lardman|homethp: perhaps it will encourage someone in the bowels of maemo sw to reply ;)15:40
crashanddielardman|home: have you looked at maxmind?15:41
thpwouldn't it work to lookup "Bath" in cityinfo and get its lat/long coordinates from the DB there? according to the docs, it should..15:41
crashanddielardman|home: http://www.maxmind.com/app/api15:42
lardman|homethp: I don't think Bath is in the db15:42
lardman|homecrashanddie: looking15:42
lardman|homethp: Nokia must do the reverse somehow, shame they can't just chuck us the raw lat/lon, save this lookup stage15:42
nomisok, I just got confirmation from the DDP people. They can only ship the QWERTY-Models of the N900  :-/15:43
crashanddiewhy would you want anything else than qwerty?15:43
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crashanddiedvorak is overrated :P And azerty is shamefully bad15:43
mgedmin_cool, a kernel panic :/15:43
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nomiscrashanddie: I want the german layout (QWERTZ)15:44
nomiscrashanddie: and the Umlauts.15:44
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lardman|homecrashanddie: ah, I see what you mean by IP now15:44
thplardman|home: you could capture the network traffic and see if nokia uses a web-based geocoding service. if not, the db should be on the device somewhere, and that'd probably be the best way to do the reverse lookup (as the strings are really the same then ;)15:44
lardman|homecrashanddie: no, I want to get lat/lon from a city name15:44
kalikiananomis, you can type umlauts via fn - sym - tap - letter15:45
lardman|homethp: true, was just hoping for an api rather than having to reverse engineer things15:45
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kalikianaeven on the international keyboard15:45
_marcell_lardman|home: libcityinfo-dev?15:45
lardman|homethp: and they go the other way, lat/lon from GPS to city name15:46
lardman|home_marcell_: only handles the db of cities in the world time app15:46
kalikiana(I would love to see a quicker shortcut, though, I admit)15:46
lardman|homeafaiu15:46
crashanddielardman|home: http://www.batchgeocode.com/lookup/15:47
crashanddielardman|home: with a bit of curl you could probably trim it down to exactly what you want15:47
lardman|homeI'd prefer to skip the parsing step altogether15:47
lardman|homeotherwise there's also google and geonames15:48
thplardman|home: http://www.geonames.org/ would be the next suggestion15:48
_marcell_lardman|home: but you can use the same info. loop through the cities in cityinfo lib and when you find the one you want get the lat/lon coordinates15:48
nomiskalikiana: yeah, I also have no doubt that I can somehow manage to remap the keyboard. But it would be nicer to have the correct symbols printed on the kezboard.15:48
lardman|home_marcell_: what if the city is not in there?15:48
lardman|home_marcell_: or do the city names used in the messenger app come from the same db?15:48
_marcell_lardman|home: then it does not exist. :)15:48
lardman|home:D15:48
crashanddielardman|home: geopy works with geonames15:48
nomisbut then I won't complain, the printed symbols don't justify spending a lot of money more  :)15:49
crashanddiehttp://code.google.com/p/geopy/15:49
lardman|homecrashanddie: yeah, I'll probably have to go that way, might do me some good to do some web thingies15:49
_marcell_lardman|home: I guess that the messenger is using some kind of a network service15:49
crashanddielardman|home: geopy wraps around the websites15:49
lardman|home_marcell_: yeah, and it goes the other way anyway15:49
lardman|homecrashanddie: C!15:49
kalikiananomis, I personally rather use hotkeys than to sacrifice the arrows :-]15:50
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crashanddielardman|home: you're never happy!15:50
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crashanddielardman|home: just do the web parsing, it'll be fast, dun't worry15:50
lardman|homecrashanddie: just trying to avoid learning stuff I don't need :)15:50
_marcell_how about http://www.geonames.org then?15:51
lardman|homeyeah, still have to learn to use librest though15:51
lardman|homebut that's what I'm doing now15:52
nomiskalikiana: oh, are these the alternatives? Then indeed, arrow keys seem important...  :)15:52
crashanddielardman|home: or just use GMaps API... Pretty sure there's a C extension for that15:52
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crashanddielardman|home: actually, using the Google API is such a manner is against the TOU15:53
* lbt has solved the SSU update problem.... we arrange per-country "SSU update parties" and Nokia ships us any needed flashing tools !!! (+ beer)15:53
lardman|homecrashanddie: yeah, so I read15:54
lardman|homelbt: ideal15:54
lbt(or Skype coctails)15:54
lardman|homelbt: what about Nokia ship us all to an update party, in, say Australia, and supplies beer too?15:54
crashanddielardman|home: yay for Queensland hillbillies!15:55
* lbt thought that first... but this idea may actually happen15:55
lardman|homelol15:55
lardman|homeyeah15:55
crashanddielardman|home: I only agree if it's in Perth or Melbourne15:55
* toggles_w votes Perth15:55
mgedminit may be interesting to visit Australia, but I hate to think about the duration of the flight15:55
lardman|homePerth, don't want the snow15:55
lardman|homemgedmin: after that, everything else is short15:56
lardman|homemgedmin: West coast USA, no worries15:56
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derfYeah, from LA or SF it's _only_ 12 hours to Sydney.15:56
crashanddieI've just come back from LA15:56
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mgedminAmsterdam to SF was kinda okayish, except for the immigration queues15:57
crashanddieSo basically: SF/Bay Area, Perth or Durban15:57
wazdReheya all)15:58
lardman|homeget shot in Durbam15:58
lardman|homeDurban15:58
crashanddieI can get a 4 bedroom house for $200 pw15:58
crashanddiein Mountain view15:58
lardman|homeok, accommodation & drinks on crashanddie15:58
lardman|home!15:58
crashanddiesod it, if I'm getting the accomodation, you guys better pay up the equivalent in drinks15:59
crashanddiewhich in santana row is probably 2 rounds and you're at $20015:59
lardman|homehmm, not ideal15:59
crashanddieI'm exagerating15:59
lardman|hometho the £ is climbing against the $ ;)16:00
crashanddiebut in Mountain view on halloween evening, 5 vodkas was $50 (including tip for  a very hot waitress, and slutty too)16:00
crashanddieI still have the receipt with her lipstick on it16:00
lardman|homes/tip for/?16:00
wazdThat's nice =)16:00
Lynourecrashanddie: 2 rounds to all people here for $200 total is cheap :)16:01
lardman|homewow, 420 of us atm16:01
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* lbt orders a martini16:01
crashanddieLynoure: 23 cents a drink, nice16:01
lbt2 kissed olives from the hot waitress please16:02
Lynourecrashanddie: sounds like homebrew wine :)16:02
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lardman|homeok, so the geonames stuff was pretty easy with librest, as I had an almost complete example to work from16:07
cosmoholy shit.. got error "malformed database schema - unable to open temporary database file for storing temporary" error dialog when installing a deb package16:08
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cosmoah, no space left on device16:11
tigertyeah, that generates interesting errors on different apps16:13
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tigertalso broken filesystem -> mount readonly does fun things :P16:13
tarek_Is it possible to install application on the external space rather that the only 1 gb meant for them??16:14
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Jaffatarek_: Not really. Repartition if you want, but you're not going to use up the 2GB /home partition with any app in Extras16:18
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JaffaAnyone tried SyncEvolution on Maemo 5 with the built-in Calendar?16:26
zaheermit would be nice if we could just use the eds gdata backend16:27
JaffaThat's true16:28
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zaheermthen no need for an extra app16:28
* Jaffa has multiple Google Calendars and *really* wants to see them in Calendar16:28
zaheermsame here!16:28
zaheermi have other fry to kill unfortunately16:28
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I don't do -users. ;)16:29
zaheermi have about 20 gcals16:29
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Off-topic for -developers, though :016:29
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lbtJaffa: it's on the list.... not impressed by missing syncML / IP though16:30
GeneralAntillesI could probably make a case for it. ;)16:30
Jaffalbt: which list?16:31
Jaffatimeless hinted that there were some strings he'd translated which seemed relevant16:31
lbtmy "make the N900 useful" list16:31
Jaffalbt: ah16:31
zaheerm:)16:31
lbtlocal egroupware integration16:31
lbtvia some kind of caldav16:31
lbtor similar16:31
timeless_mbphrm, calendar url support?16:31
lbtalso LDAP integration would be nice for contacts16:31
zaheermi have a premium goosync account i used on my e71 for gcal sync16:32
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zaheermsupported syncml over ip, so yes even that is not possible yet on the n90016:32
lbtno16:32
lbt:(16:32
timeless_mbplbt: ldap would require actually pulling in ldap16:32
zaheermbut i'd rather get native gcal support in eds into the n90016:32
timeless_mbpi think there might be rumors of plans for that actually16:32
timeless_mbpbut it's hardly something one could call 'trivial'16:33
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Ceron^i HATE n90016:33
* Ceron^ runs away16:33
* lbt is ambivalent about google data storage16:33
* lbt 100% agrees with !Ceron^16:34
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lardman|homevoice activated dialing :)16:34
Sebhi everyone16:34
lardman|homeand sms announcements16:34
Ceron^still not one navigation program that would be made for n900 except for ma-emo mapper and ovi mapfail16:34
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Sebis fremantle installable on a n800 ?16:34
zaheermtimeless_mbp, rumours of plans for gdata eds backend?16:34
lardman|homeCeron^: emerillon?16:34
lbtSeb almost16:34
lbtsee Mer16:35
timeless_mbpzaheerm: sorry, i don't spend that much time talking to them :)16:35
Ceron^lardman|home: was is that?16:35
lardman|homeCeron^: a mapping program....16:35
Seblbt: "Mer" ? :)16:35
JaffaSeb: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer16:35
Sebah16:35
* lbt looks at topic...16:35
Seblbt: did I miss it in there ?16:36
lbtmy point exactly :(16:36
Seboh16:36
Sebheh16:36
zaheermyah someone should remove the QA meeting from topic16:36
lbt(took you long enough to ask ;) )16:36
Seblbt, Jaffa: thank you guys16:36
Seblbt: hah16:36
lbtSeb there is #mer too16:37
lardman|homeCeron^: qwerty and I are in the process of hildonising it, and at this very moment I'm finishing (I hope) writing a plugin to show N900 contacts on the map16:37
zaheermlardman|home, cool, i guess doing the photos on phone on the map wouldn't be too difficult if you almost done the n900 contacts16:38
Seblbt: yeah just saw that on the wiki page16:38
lardman|homezaheerm: yep, that's my next plugin, though actually I think someone has already done that one in vala16:38
lardman|homebut I've not got vala working for emerillon in fremantle16:38
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timeless_mbpqwerty12: hrm16:41
timeless_mbpi had a question for you :)16:41
Sebwhile I'm here, what's a good way to search for maemo packages online ?16:41
* Stskeeps passes qwerty12 a cookie for no reason16:41
timeless_mbpqwerty12: right...16:41
Sebi mean packages that may not be in my n800's list of repositories yet; like some sort of website aggregating many repositories contents maybe ?16:41
timeless_mbphow do i get a dialog with two buttons of my choice using zenity?16:41
timeless_mbpi want something like the nokia restart dialogs16:42
lbtSeb: there is only really one repository nowadays16:42
JaffaSeb: There's one at gronmayer.com - however, anything useful is now in Extras or Extras-devel. There's been a big push by the community to consolidate them16:42
qwerty12Stskeeps: Thanks :)16:42
qwerty12timeless_mbp: I actually have no idea...16:42
lbtgarage is a good place to start16:42
timeless_mbpJaffa: extras, extras-testing, extras-devel16:42
Seblbt, Jaffa: oh, that's nice16:42
timeless_mbpyou should advertise testing :)16:42
Jaffatimeless_mbp: He said N800 :-p16:42
timeless_mbpbah16:42
Jaffalbt: I'd quibble with that statement ;-)16:43
timeless_mbpfor consistency sake, we should have testing there too16:43
lbtfine, quibble then. I'll watch ;)16:43
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Jaffalbt: In fact, I'd probably have some level of quibblement with any statement starting "garage is a good place..." ;-)16:44
Sebk, i already have devel and devel-extras, so I'll take it there's simply no zsh then :)16:44
* lbt prepares to watch Jaffa quibbling...16:44
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* lbt does think you have a teeny point16:44
ShadowJKlol @ youtube comment "if autism was a mobile device... Interesting..um.. um.. "16:44
Stskeepshmm, so there is touch area outside the n900 screen?16:44
lbtooh, really?16:45
kalikianathat's called the "case"16:45
mikhasStskeeps, yes16:45
Stskeepslike on left side16:45
Stskeepsdoes it exist on right side?16:45
mikhasthere is a small area left and right16:45
Stskeepsinteresting16:45
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JaffaStskeeps: you can tell when doing the browser stroke from right to left for history16:46
lbtnot used for, eg, "click outside to go back"16:46
Stskeepscool16:46
lcukthats not outside the area16:46
lcukthats jsut a gesture starting from x=0 surely16:46
cehtehsome hidden button areas would be cool16:46
Stskeepsi am quite sure its outside screen area16:46
lcukthe only "outside" screen input ive seen is the novel use of the proximity sensor16:46
lbt*nod*16:47
lcukwhich lib supplies input?16:47
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lbtcan we tell from any calibration ?16:47
lcukcan tell cos it would be really simple to do the same with standard code16:47
lcukand standard x stuff16:47
lbtdo we get mouse events (<0, <0)16:47
cehtehis touch input a event device similar to a notebook synaptics ?16:47
cehtehlbt: the mouse events are certainly filtered .. but you may get more raw events somewhere16:48
lbtcehteh: more like Wacom tablet16:48
cehtehfor a synaptics touchpad (which is capacitative) you could even implement proximity sensing16:49
cehtehsome notice fingers as far as 1-2 cm away16:49
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* GeneralAntilles head -> desk.16:55
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GeneralAntilleshttp://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=330716:55
povbotBug 3307: "maemo Extras" in Application manager should be "Extras"16:55
fralsoh just read that extras will get enabled by default in first maintenance release, thats pretty good i guess16:55
GeneralAntillesExcept for they've randomly and arbitrarily decided to change the name . . . again.16:57
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: ran into 'not enough memory in target location' in web save file? on n90016:59
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Stskeepsinternal, not ext16:59
timeless_mbpnot really16:59
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Stskeepsthere is plenty of space, so16:59
timeless_mbpdo you have strace/ is it reproducable?16:59
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timeless_mbps/able/ible/17:00
infobottimeless_mbp meant: do you have strace/ is it reproducible?17:00
Stskeepshmm17:00
Stskeepssomething is wrong here.. xterm doesnt show menu17:00
timeless_mbpnow, *that* happens to me often :)17:00
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tekojoGeneralAntilles imagine seeing a repository for the first time in your life. Which one means more extras or applications17:04
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GeneralAntillesProblem is, these people are all going to see "Extras" on the internet and have trouble connecting the two.17:11
lcukGeneralAntilles, you suggested that name though!17:11
kalikianatekonivel, both are equally descriptive. the only issue is that one of them doesn't relate to its actual name/ url at all17:11
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I didn't suggest "http://maemo.org Applications" :)17:11
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kalikianaanything with .org is what will look odd to ordinary people17:12
GeneralAntillesIt should just be "Extras".17:12
lcukthere is http before it?17:12
kalikianait's like branding the device "N900.com"17:12
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I'm not doing another one of these with you.17:12
GeneralAntillesJust read the bug.17:12
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lcuki did, the fix in the description reads like you asked them too ("Win!")17:13
lcukbut you just said there was a http:// before it17:13
kalikianalcuk is just trying to let the frustration out on someone :P17:13
GeneralAntilleskalikiana, http://OpenOffice.org manages OK.17:13
kalikianaGeneralAntilles, that's just as silly. no mortal understands what that is supposed to be17:13
GeneralAntilleslcuk, read the bug again, because either you're that clueless or you're baiting me.17:13
GeneralAntilleskalikiana, anyway, the .org is a separate issue.17:14
GeneralAntillesThe issue here is Nokia inventing new names for something (again).17:14
GeneralAntillesWhen they already have a perfectly workable one.17:14
lardmanre17:14
kalikianaIf it's decided the discussion is probably moot anyway, we don't even know who particularly decided it17:14
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GeneralAntilleskalikiana, always the problem with Nokia's supposedly "open" development.17:15
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GeneralAntilles"Let's just do this and we'll tell the people investing a lot of time and effort trying to help once it's been decided."17:15
GeneralAntillesThen they get irritated when we react badly.17:15
kalikianaGeneralAntilles, I tend to think some of Nokia is open, some is not. And if one from the wrong group gets his feet on the ground that's what happens17:16
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GeneralAntilleskalikiana, it's all those goddamn S60 people in Maemo Devices.17:16
kalikiana:P17:16
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* GAN900 is just tired of wasting his time.17:17
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mgedminStskeeps, xterm not showing menu -- bug 6096?17:18
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6096 xterm: "Empty" app menu with invisible buttons17:18
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andre__oh, hi povbot.17:18
* RST38h sighs and orders an N90017:18
* javispedro congratules RST38h in his decision while still not doing it :)17:18
qwerty12andre__: povbot is slated to be your replacement17:19
RST38hWait, I am not doing it too: when FN sees my Irish proxy it asks for euros17:19
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javispedro:(17:19
GAN900Half the answers these days seem to be, "We've come up with a solution internally that has little or nothing to do with the proposed solution and we're not going to tell you what it is, hope you like it."17:19
andre__qwerty12, that's cool! i'll go and grab a beer then17:19
mgedminactually, it would make more sense for infobot to do the informative bug announcements17:20
mgedminit's also supybot, right?17:20
qwerty12andre__: hehe17:20
andre__GAN900, not refering to bug 3307, eh? :-P17:20
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3307 "maemo Extras" in Application manager should be "Extras"17:20
* andre__ pets povbot 17:20
andre__mgedmin, that would be really noisy. in a different channel maybe.17:20
javispedro#maemo-chatbos17:20
mgedminandre__, I mean the kind of bug number -> bug title thing that povbot does now17:20
javispedro#maemo-chatbots17:20
RST38hjavis: Why not though?17:21
andre__yeah. gimpnet also has a #bzbot channel for the noise.17:21
mgedminnot announcements that bug #### changed target from UNSET to 5.0+17:21
andre__ah, okay :)17:21
mgedmineverybody knows and loves infobot already; povbot is just something with a weird name17:22
javispedroRST38h: DDP? I am waiting for someone to confirm they're shipping and not just "reserving" money.17:22
javispedromgedmin: fuse them into  "infovbot"17:22
RST38hDefault shipping information at FN says "Afghanistan"17:23
GiantTalkingCowHow about "pinfovbot" instead?17:23
mgedminjavispedro, I still haven't received the promised DDP email saying the N900 is available for ordering, even though I've ordered mine yesterday17:23
RST38hjavis: Does not matter, they will ship17:23
javispedroI am not a fan of preordering, you see...17:23
javispedroshipping from afghanistan with DHL?17:23
GiantTalkingCowNor am I. I don't buy anything that I can't get my hands on in a store at some point or other.17:24
RST38hjavis: If they delay by 2 weeks, will it make it preorder? =)17:24
RST38hjavis: Maybe shipping TO Afghanistan with NATO? =)(17:24
javispedroRST38h: definitely. and will make me lose a lot of hair while waiting for a customs notice17:24
RST38hjavis: true17:25
* RST38h is shipping to US though, now just need to find someone to take it here17:25
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javispedrobut either way I _require_ a ogl es capable hardware.17:27
javispedroand since "our TI contact" is Missing in Action at best...17:27
javispedroI wonder if he's on holiday for a month too.17:29
GAN900Engadget doesn't even try to hide how much they hate Nokia anymore.17:29
mgedminso, the promised semi-open-source driver for the N8x0 never materialized, javispedro?17:29
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javispedroGAN900: when engadget reviews the n900 remember to link to it in this channel's topic :)17:30
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javispedromgedmin: never materialized, doesn't answer to emails17:30
GAN900ohgod17:30
mgedminsomehow I'm not surprised :/17:31
GAN900Now I'm "Ralph"17:31
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GiantTalkingCowEngadget hates lots of stuff: if I'm gonna check out a website for a decent smartphone review, it'll likely be Ars Technica.17:31
* javispedro can't wait for engadget's n900 perfectly unbiased review. will my stomach be able to handle it?17:32
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penguinbaitdamn it I am seeing giant talking cows again. things that make you go moo17:32
frals_:D17:32
javispedromoo penguinbait17:32
javispedromoooooooo17:32
timeless_mbpGAN900: can you blame engadget?17:33
Synergy6Which repository would I need for libgcc1, libdbus etc?17:33
GAN900timeless_mbp, yes.17:33
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timeless_mbpSynergy6: what are you trying to do?17:34
timeless_mbpare you in a scratchbox?17:34
GiantTalkingCowI find Gizmodo better than Engadget, most of the time. Engadget's just a little too iPhone-fanboyish, imo.17:36
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andre__javispedro, uhm. who's that TI guy? sounds like it could need some escalation...17:36
Synergy6claws-mail (for example) can't install because it needs libgcc1 >4.2.117:36
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mgedminmaybe his corporate overseeres discovered his suspicious leanings toward openness and quietly disappeared him?17:36
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javispedroandre__, mgedmin: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=360683#post36068317:37
RST38hjavis: I am sure it will be titled "Why N900 is no iPhone"17:38
RST38hjavis: Thick, heavy, NOT SHINY, NO MMS!17:38
qwerty12RST38h: You're forgetting "not made by Apple"17:39
javispedrono apple sticker!17:39
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* andre__ still doesn't get why people use MMS. it's like using pagers in the 90es. different culture it seems17:39
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Synergy6So why did they like the Droid?17:39
mgedminandre__, last time I tried to use MMS, it failed; debugging was beyond my ken17:39
mgedminbroken tech teaches people to avoid it17:39
mgedminthe prices at the time were also frivolous17:40
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* lardman hopes he won't have to resurrect his disassembler and set it to work on pvr.ko again17:40
frals_Andre__: instant(ish) sharing with people without a dataplan on their phone ;)17:41
* mgedmin wonders if brokenpromises.org is registered17:41
lardmanwell you never know, he might have bird flu or something17:41
SpeedEvil     brokenpromises.org is a parked domain17:42
penguinbaitare people who use MER Merfolk?17:42
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zaheermandre__, because some people don't have email or data on their phone yet want to send a picture17:43
andre__penguinbait, I'd call them merried.17:43
andre__hmm. never felt any need to use mms17:43
Stskeepspenguinbait: mermen and mermaids.17:43
kalikianano, they just eat seabass all day17:44
zaheermmy mum uses mms17:44
penguinbaitmermen and mermaids are merfolk ;)17:44
Jaffa...and s/MER/Mer/17:44
zaheermeven though she has an iphone and can email with it17:44
andre__heh. my parents don't use mobile phones or computers17:44
qwerty12andre__: Do they still have a rotary dial phone? =)17:45
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I still wonder where the all-caps version came from.17:45
penguinbaitIts was me GA, I just typed it17:46
andre__qwerty12, not anymore :)17:46
qwerty12:)17:46
penguinbaitSorry I see three letters and assume all caps17:46
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* Jaffa gets really bugged by JAVA (although that is valid when referring to Sun Microsystem's stock ticker symbol)17:46
qwerty12MER = Maemo EradicatoR17:47
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derfGeneralAntilles: People do the same thing to Ogg. It's just the way things go.17:47
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penguinbaitI'll type MAEMO if it will annoy you17:49
* mgedmin pries the capslock key off penguinbait's keyboard17:49
mgedmindon't make me come for the shifts17:50
kalikianaMust Annoy Everyone Most Onomatopoetically17:50
qwerty12penguinbait: Please... Don't come for the shifts17:50
penguinbaitMaEmO17:50
javispedroMERMAIDS?17:51
qwerty12That's Stskeeps17:51
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penguinbaitMy merfolk deck kicks ass17:51
javispedroEvil Mermaids17:51
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javispedroandre__: so yeah, if you could ping the TI guy... even if he's on holiday climbing the everest or the like (Mission Impossible style) ;) ... we would be very thankful  :)17:54
qwerty12javispedro: If that doesn't work, we'll get the trusty bulldozer out ;)17:55
javispedro:)17:56
andre__javispedro, i assume that Stskeeps did already17:56
Stskeepsi did, no response, individuals are free to ask :P17:56
javispedroi did email him too, on friday. no response yet.17:57
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javispedrohow come 300 people did not notice the hidden digital compass!18:04
lardmanis there one?18:04
javispedroah, the tmo conspiracies...18:04
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, we're just trying to keep you down.18:04
penguinbaitThey are all giant talking cows, mooooooo18:04
dmj726is there one?18:04
lardmanI was wondering how we would be able to notice it unless there was a kernel driver18:04
* GeneralAntilles likes the thread-shit fragos took on the "Fixed in Fremantle" thread.18:04
javispedrooh, I was nomited on that thread :)18:05
javispedros/nomited/nominated18:05
javispedroI guess for having something fixing the FRIGGIN ORANGE COLORS in the SDK and boasting that around here MWAHA18:06
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* Stskeeps passes javispedro a cookie for that18:10
Stskeepsjavispedro: i've run into it on sw rendering too i think18:10
Stskeepswhat bug # was it?18:10
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* javispedro looks up18:11
javispedrohttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=487018:11
povbotBug 4870: Red & blue color channels swapped sometimes in SDK18:11
javispedroStskeeps: more like a workaround but if you're using a non ancient version of Mesa it will work. will be happy to hear if it works! :)18:12
Stskeeps:nod:18:13
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Jaffajavispedro: So there is one now? Pretend that not everyone is slavishly following tmo these days; and may have realised it was a timesink with more noise than signal.18:17
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javispedroJaffa: no, there's no compass :)18:18
timeless_mbphttp://www.softsailor.com/news/11565-nokia-n900-commercial-seriously-freaks-us-out-updated-with-great-ads.html18:18
timeless_mbphave people seen the second ad there?18:18
javispedrojust someone who still wanted someone of the "300" (this sounds like a film now) to confirm it18:18
derfhttp://code.google.com/p/go/source/detail?r=4a3f6bbb5f0c6021279ccb3c23558b3c480d995f18:18
Stskeepsjavispedro: if you want, i can give you a mer vmdk where you can try and see if you can get vmgl going?18:19
MuJsoft sailor.. sounds like a failure in life who went to server on boat :)18:19
Stskeepsand then patch clutter18:19
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ShadowJKtimeless, yeah I have18:20
javispedroStskeeps: xorg version?18:20
timeless_mbpwow18:20
Stskeepsjavispedro: yeah18:20
timeless_mbpthese other commercials are kinda nice18:20
javispedroStskeeps: I mean, which release? :) either way, point me and I'll try18:20
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ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, or do you mean if we've seen them non-internet?18:21
Stskeepsjavispedro: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/0.17testing2/mer-x86-generic-image-v0.17testing2.vmdk.zip18:21
timeless_mbpwell, definitely let me know if you see one in the real world18:21
* ShadowJK doesn't see anything in real world18:22
* Stskeeps tries to avoid watching tv.18:22
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Stskeepshulu, sure, but not much tv18:22
Stskeeps:P18:22
javispedrotimeless: these other commercials weren't made by Nokia AFAIU18:22
javispedrosome contest iirc18:22
timeless_mbpthat explains why they don't suck18:23
javispedroderf: reads like Java, and they even spelled O_CREATE fully! heretic language!18:23
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timeless_mbpheh18:26
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* javispedro wonders if we'll see "5 years experience required with Go" 18:27
lardmanthat would be Gone18:29
javispedro"5 years of experience Gone"18:29
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javispedroand to add to the heresy, they even took sides in the tabs vs spaces holy war:18:30
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javispedro"We use tabs for indentation and gofmt emits them by default."18:30
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mgedmineeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!18:31
mgedminwhat happened to "don't be evil"???18:31
mgedmintabs for indentation, omg18:31
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javispedroyes, they're evil. changing the decl_spec order from type_spec identifier to identifier type_spec is plain evil.18:33
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MyrttiTOTORO!18:39
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Stskeepsthe movie? :P18:45
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javispedroStskeeps: ouch, not mouse pointer in that VM?18:56
Stskeepsctrl-shift-x18:57
javispedroah, ta!18:57
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Stskeepsjavispedro: works and has connectivity?19:01
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javispedroyep19:01
Stskeepsgood, releasing then19:01
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javispedrolol19:02
javispedro:)19:02
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Stskeepsi don't expect too much of it so :P19:03
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_Lucretia_god, errors in mimetypes and the mention of "i've been haxored" fills me with confidence19:15
Stskeepsin terms of/19:15
StskeepsSDK? :P19:15
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lbtgconf ?19:16
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javispedronokians are so evil haxors sometimes19:17
kalikianawhat makes you say that?19:20
kalikianaoh, nevermind19:21
javispedrothe gconf i've been haxored comments :)19:21
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timeless_mbpkalikiana: our comments are clear19:21
timeless_mbpwe identify ourselves by our actions of haxoring19:22
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kalikianahehe19:22
thuxlike virus makers when they said hello to gates19:23
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* Stskeeps ponders if some idiot used his nickname on forum nokia19:31
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javispedroStskeeps: in the "PRO" forum? that'd be an evil way to get the discount...19:33
* GeneralAntilles still needs to call the credit card company.19:33
GeneralAntillesI hate Forum Nokia.19:33
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: i saw a "Manage my prototype loans" section in Forum Nokia Pro, so get used to it lol19:34
RST38hGeneral: What happened with FN?19:35
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RST38hjeremiah: Here?19:36
* Stskeeps gives up and tries another day.19:36
GeneralAntillesRST38h, end-to-end the discount program really sucks.19:36
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GeneralAntillesPoor communication, poor process19:36
GeneralAntillesDesigned for dealing19:36
GeneralAntillesThe initial form was stupid19:36
GeneralAntillesThe NDA is stupid19:36
GeneralAntillesThe fact that you're dealing with a company overseas is stupid19:36
RST38hGeneral: Well, as long as they ship the device and it works, I am fine19:36
GeneralAntillesNot having a warranty is stupid.19:36
RST38hGeneral: Just remember N810 program with Nokia USA19:37
* RST38h laughs satanically19:37
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* javispedro notes half his home address was deleted from the FN registration info19:38
mgedminat least _this_ DDP lets me specify a shipping address in Lithuania without rejecting me out of hand19:38
javispedroRST38h: btw, profile has "preferred currency" setting.19:39
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RST38hmgedmin: Even lets you specify an address in Afghanistan19:40
RST38hjavis: I have USD there19:40
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RST38hjavis: Too bad this "smart" site overrides it when I use a proxy in Ireland19:40
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RST38hjavis: But it is still better than Nokia USA verifying my CC information via anal probe19:41
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javispedroStskeeps: equivalent of af-sb-init.sh on Mer? I want to restart hildon-desktop and the rest of the gang with an external $DISPLAY19:48
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Stskeepshmm, check what /etc/init.d/auto-startx does it19:48
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javispedroah, uses xsession stuff19:49
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javispedrowell, vmgl does work. to get proper alignment of stuff either using a patched xephyr or a patched Xvnc is needed.19:50
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javispedronote though that blurring does not work due to missing FBO ext19:51
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derfNo FBO?19:53
derfDoesn't that make it kind of... useless?19:53
Stskeepsfbo?19:53
derfFramebuffer objects.19:54
Stskeepstexture from pixmap? :P19:54
derfNeeded for render-to-texture.19:54
derfWhich in turn is needed for basically everything.19:54
javispedroderf: you'd be surprised to hear it's only used for blurring then19:54
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Stskeepsjavispedro: screenshots of how it then looks is probably interesting19:54
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derfjavispedro: I'm mostly uninterested in actual graphics.19:55
derfI just want another processor.19:55
javispedroStskeeps: btw note that VMGL has nothing to do with the weird colors -- I guess you're interested in a screenshot of blue tear?19:56
Stskeepsyes, of course, but also about blurring19:57
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javispedrothey're not related at all -- you don't have to use VMGL if you don't want hw accelerated 3D, and you'll get fine blurring then19:57
_Lucretia_I've installed everything as per the doc, af-sb-init.sh doesn't exist19:57
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aepguys, do you have any idea if the US version of the n900 will work with EU frequencies?19:58
javispedroderf: well for the record the actual n900 hw does support FBOs (as theoretically does the N810' MBX from what I've read)19:59
derfjavispedro: Ah! Okay, that's good news, at least.19:59
javispedroFBOs on OGL ES 1.1 is an optional extension but seems nearly everyone has it -- including the iphone "1g"19:59
javispedroFBOs are mandatory on 2.020:00
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_Lucretia_the apt-get install osso-af-sb-startup line is missing from the howto20:00
RST38hAnyone responsible for maemo.org website management here?20:01
* javispedro would like a way to be able to render to a FBO managed by hildon-desktop instead of the usual render to buffer -> get pixmap -> upload pixmap as texture -> ...20:01
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microlithaep: N900 internals are the same in all regions iirc, only difference is the keyboard20:11
aepaye thanks20:11
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dottedmagmicrolith: keyboard hardware or just key captions?20:12
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konttoridottedmag: just key captions20:15
dottedmagkonttori: thanks20:15
* dottedmag is relieved20:16
* konttori is using finnish keyboard captions, but has switched to english layout so that the arrow keys would work20:16
dottedmagYeah. Same problem here - I wanted to get device from US just to avoid stupid Russian layout.20:16
dottedmagLooks like it's not necessary.20:16
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aepyeah thats my concern too :D20:17
aepi definatly need arrow keys, thats why i'm getting a US version20:17
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mgedminI'm wondering about OSSO_PRODUCT_REGION='Netherlands'20:21
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mgedminand OSSO_PRODUCT_WLAN_CHANNEL='fcc/us'20:21
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mgedminthese are stored somewhere (CAL?) and they probably affect something (no clue what)20:21
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mgedminbeing unable to use wifi channel 12 would suck20:21
_Lucretia_why am I getting this "sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first" <<- I don't have any20:22
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mgedminhm, look for background processes stuck somewhere?20:23
mgedminhappened to me once20:23
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MarkBaohuh, I heard somewhere that Maemo 5 was based on Qt.20:26
_Lucretia_KillAll in the sb-menu20:26
pablo_GDB for armel.... Where I find this?20:26
_Lucretia_still can't get the ui to work20:26
StskeepsMarkBao: you're thinking about m20:27
Stskeeps620:27
_Lucretia_/usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 92: /usr/bin/hildon-input-method: No such file or directory20:27
MarkBaoStskeeps: m6?20:28
Stskeepsmaemo 620:28
MarkBaoah, got it.20:28
MarkBaoI'm looking to develop a small touch-screen mobile app to be deployed on a device.20:29
MarkBaosine Maemo seemed to be doing quite well with what they're working with, thought I'd look at what they're using20:29
MarkBaowould you suggest that I use GTK+Hildon or Qt?20:29
Stskeepsboth work on maemo 520:30
ensiMarkBao: Qt20:30
MarkBaoensi: thanks. any reason?20:30
Stskeepsbut yeah, qt for the long run and sanity20:30
MarkBaoheh.20:30
ensiMarkBao: Maemo is moving onto Qt20:31
cosmoqt is easier & faster to develop on20:31
ensiand it works well20:31
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ensiand you can just use all the normal Qt tools to build your application20:31
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_Lucretia_do these 2 packages (maemo-sdk-runtime nokia-binaries) need to be installed under both arm and x86 or just x86?20:31
ensiknocking up a GUI is very fast20:31
MarkBaoensi: yeah. that's what I'm thikning. though, it doesn't look very good for touch-screen UIs20:31
ensi_Lucretia_: both20:31
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_Lucretia_ensi: thanks20:31
ensiMarkBao: what do you mean?20:31
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ensiMarkBao: some things you need to take into account, for example buttons and such20:32
ensiyou have to use minimum sizes so they are larger on the ui20:32
MarkBaoensi: as in animations, the like.20:32
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ensiMarkBao: yeah not all things are yet there like stacked windows. I think this is coming in Qt 4.6 but is not yet available20:32
StskeepsMarkBao: qt has excellent animation support :P20:32
ensi(unless you compile from source)20:32
ensiMarkBao: but do you need this?20:33
MarkBaohmm, I might.20:33
ensia bigger problem is that some of the Maemo api's want a GtkWindow*20:33
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ensiwhich is kinda sucky....20:33
zaheermhow can i tell the device in my app not to dim the scren20:33
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zaheermbit sucky my video gets dimmed20:34
MarkBaothanks for the help, ensi and Stskeeps :)20:35
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ensinp20:35
_Lucretia_finally! got a pink rectangle in the top left corner of the window: error messages are here: http://pastebin.com/mfb698a920:35
lcukzaheerm, which toolkit you using20:36
zaheermhildon, gtk20:36
kirmahrmm... so many people on bus usin n900 :I20:36
zaheermkirma, you're on a nokia employees bus? :)20:36
kirmanot really. kamppi-espoo in general20:37
Stskeepssounds like a typical maemo employees bus for those living in espoo20:38
kirmahelsinki, one that goes past one of nokia complexes to engineer suburb of 300k or so20:38
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kirma;I20:38
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* javispedro would fear a bus full of n900s, just in case they decided to revert to their human forms 20:39
Stskeepsjavispedro: the people with n900s are actually controlled by their n900s :P20:40
kirmaeh eh20:40
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zaheermlcuk, you have an answer?20:40
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kirmapeople iwth iphones are ceretainly controlled by steve20:40
lcukzaheerm, mplayer has a heartbeat function20:40
Stskeepszaheerm: qwerty12 knows how to stop dimming and such i think :P20:40
lcukwhich does as you need20:40
javispedroStskeeps: I'm sure that's not good material for an ad ;)20:40
lcukbut google isnt the best at searching partial words20:40
lcukand i cant remember the actual name of the func20:40
zaheermlcuk, yah tried google20:41
kirmanice e90 typos damnit20:41
konttorido we have the n900wallpapers guys in here ever?20:41
lcukim searching for heartbeat rather than blanking stuff20:41
lcukyeah20:41
wazdcan anybody stop this maemo.org spam please? :)20:41
lcukits code177 isnt it20:41
konttoriwe are going to make it easier to make 4 screen wallpapers.20:41
zaheermyah heartbeat keeps up its cpu speed too right?20:41
konttoriI just wanted to notify the guys.20:41
lcukkonttori cool!20:41
_Lucretia_can someone tell me why it's trying to load Error loading cached background image /home/laguest/.backgrounds/background-1.pvr when they don't exist?20:42
lcukhow are you goin about it?  just single pic and cookie cut to size?20:42
javispedro_Lucretia_: something  you can safely ignore20:42
lcukor stitching multiple as well?20:42
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konttorisingle pic and that's it. store anywhere on the device. tracker will feed it to the available wallpapers automatically20:42
_Lucretia_javispedro: ok, but it's still not working20:42
konttoriall images of size 3200x480 will go there20:42
lcukkonttori, so we should expect people using a strip of 4 pictures created from a single 640*480 original source manga image? :D20:43
javispedro_Lucretia_: remove everything and reinstall. and follow instructions a bit more carefully (yes you have to install both nokia-apps and nokia-binaries in both targets)20:43
_Lucretia_can someone look at my error log and give me a hint?20:43
lcuk160*120 (H)20:43
zaheermlcuk, i grabbed mplayer src from apt, looking now20:43
lcukalright cool zaheerm20:44
_Lucretia_javispedro: I used http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation and I folloed it exactly cutting n pasting. it didn't install some things, like the osso stuff20:44
zaheermlcuk, thx for the pointer20:44
lcukahh konttori cool20:44
konttoriIt's only easier delivery method20:44
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konttorilcuk: I still can't see you in internal irc20:44
javispedro_Lucretia_: because you didn't do the nokia-binaries part20:44
_Lucretia_I did20:44
javispedroat least, for both targets20:45
_Lucretia_I did20:45
zaheermosso_display_state_on(ossocontext);osso_display_blanking_pause(ossocontext);20:45
lcuki can see you20:45
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* zaheerm hopes it is wrapped in pymaemo20:46
_Lucretia_I pasted the lines "fakeroot apt-get install nokia-binaries nokia-apps" from both x86 and arm20:46
javispedro_Lucretia_: that should've downloaded nearly 200 mibibytes20:46
moo__javispedro: Thou Hast Highlighted My Nick20:46
javispedroor more20:46
_Lucretia_javispedro: it downloaded a shitload on both20:46
lcukzaheerm, i believe on n810 that actually failed for me!20:47
_Lucretia_and still didn't work20:47
javispedromoo__, only a three letter prefix!20:47
lcukeither that or i had nothing available20:47
moo__>_>20:47
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javispedro_Lucretia_: after that you either have af-sb-init.sh avail or the apt-get install clearly failed with a visible error message20:47
RST38hGeneral: Do you still have management rights for maemo.og? If you don't who does?20:47
zaheermlcuk, pymaemo display state methods?20:47
moo__is there geotagging support for N900 which would actually embed geolocation informaiton in JPEG EXIF data (for flick to consume)?20:48
lizardozaheerm: at least in python-osso 0.4 it should work20:48
greenflymoo__: yes20:49
moo__greenfly: linkz or didn't happen :)20:49
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EspadaV8_Lbugger, why did they have to release the n900 today :(20:51
zaheermlizardo, in 0.4 i see osso.device_state not display_state20:51
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zaheermlizardo, no matter i found it is what i want20:52
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zaheermlizardo, thx for the help20:52
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lizardozaheerm: DeviceState.display_state_on() and DeviceState.display_blanking_pause()  (just for completeness) :)20:52
lizardoin device_state module20:53
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* Stskeeps ponders if 'patch' is in extras21:00
* VDVsx thumbs up new Bullshit Bingo version ;)21:01
andre__okay, just realized when reading internal bug reports that people really test porn pages in the browser. so this device could even become a success :-P21:03
andre__(though "pink page" is a weird euphemism in the subject line, dear reporter.)21:03
Stskeeps1/5 of iphone users use it for porn. let's make it 1/2 on n900! :P21:03
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andre__i do my very best already ;-)21:04
javispedron900: 1/2 of it use it for viewing 'pink pages', the other half is mentally insane!21:04
javispedros/it/owners21:04
Stskeepspinkpenguin.org21:04
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GreyFoxxIs there a recommended alternate web browser for the N810 ?   I've seen mention of "tear browser" and was wondering if it was faster than the one that came with my tablet21:08
w00tStskeeps probably makes up for all the other users anyway21:08
w00t:-)21:08
javispedroStskeeps: clutter build-deps on Mer seem wrong, it should require libxi-dev libxcomposite-dev libxdamage-dev libxfixes-dev at least21:08
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javispedroalso I wonder were all those modificacions to clutter in Maemo come from.21:08
javispedrohalf of it are in quilt form, rest are not.21:08
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johnxGreyFoxx, tear is the one you want: http://wiki.maemo.org/Tear21:10
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_Lucretia_when doing the sdk_install, do I just need option 3?21:11
GreyFoxxJohn, thanks21:12
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Stskeepsjavispedro: there's probably some dependancy that brings the stuff in?21:24
Stskeepswe are quite picky about our build deps so21:24
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timeless_mbpsp3000: you alive?21:27
* timeless_mbp is thinking about dinner21:27
sp3000build joy21:30
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GiantTalkingCowDinner would be nice, if it wasn't lunchtime over here.21:31
johnsqHi21:31
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timeless_mbpi haven't had lunch yet21:33
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PortaLuhis, do I actually need to take any notice of the /proc binfmt_misc error21:53
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PortaLuhis, do I actually need to take any notice of the /proc binfmt_misc error21:59
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mgedminwhat error?22:04
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mgedminand I don't know anyway22:04
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timeless_mbpsp3000: so... bugmail reached 022:11
timeless_mbpdinner plans?22:11
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sp3000had to do a branch port build fix, building images now22:12
sp3000bugmail 0? unpossible22:12
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timeless_mbpwell22:18
timeless_mbpit'll bubble up while i walk to dinner22:18
sp3000;)22:18
timeless_mbpand i have 424 non bugmails to read22:18
timeless_mbpbut stil22:18
timeless_mbpl22:18
* GeneralAntilles sighs at Linux Devices22:18
StskeepsMaemo.org?22:19
GeneralAntillesIn short, it's competitive with the latest high-end smartphones, including the iPhone, Samsung's LiMo-based Vodafone 360 H1, or Motorola's much-touted Android based http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Verizon-Wireless-Droid-by-Motorola/. Unsubsidized by carriers at this point, however, it costs considerably more.22:19
GeneralAntillesand of course there's no way to email them anymore.22:19
sp3000timeless_mbp: where's dinner?22:20
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timeless_mbphrm, it's 10pm on weds22:20
timeless_mbpdoes that make it pizza?22:21
sp3000it probably does22:21
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timeless_mbppizza then, when's dinner?22:21
timeless_mbpStskeeps: eh?22:21
Stskeepshmm?22:21
timeless_mbp[10:19pm] <Stskeeps> Maemo.org?22:21
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, see my quote.22:22
* GeneralAntilles retroactively adds quotation marks.22:22
timeless_mbphow about a reference link?22:22
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Nokia-N900-ships/22:28
timeless_mbpthanks22:29
timeless_mbp> After a delay of several weeks, Nokia is finally shipping its Maemo Linux-based N900 smartphone for 500 Euros ($750), says eWEEK. Meanwhile, a research note supports rumors of an upcoming Maemo-based, mass-market smartphone designed to compete directly with the iPhone, says an industry report, and LWN.net reports on last month's Maemo Summit.22:29
timeless_mbpi thought the list price was 600EUR/650USD22:29
timeless_mbpwhere did they pull 500EUR/750USD?22:29
sp3000they love to convert22:30
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johnsqtimeless_mbp: price compate is at 49922:30
timeless_mbpsomeone please check me, the price listed for .eu is 600, not 500, right?22:30
johnsqcompate=compare22:30
timeless_mbphttp://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=n900+600+eur&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-822:31
cosmoif anyone with 32bit ubuntu or debian wants to beta-test my desktop app, please do http://www.siilihai.com/22:31
timeless_mbpshows that my memory isn't that bad22:31
cosmoi just added talk.maemo.org support for it22:31
timeless_mbpdid the price get shifted by nokia to be less insane?22:31
timeless_mbpcosmo: i think talk support is generally seen as a negative here :)22:31
cosmomaemo version coming later (this week maybe)22:31
cosmotimeless_mbp: is there any better forum for maemo?22:32
timeless_mbpdunno, i stay away from the others22:32
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, the €500 doesn't include taxes.22:35
* timeless_mbp boggles22:35
timeless_mbpyou mean it excludes VAT?22:35
pwnguinwhat's VAT? :P22:35
GeneralAntillescosmo, Talk is the least evil of them.22:35
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, right.22:35
timeless_mbppwnguin: TAX spelled differently22:36
timeless_mbpwith more VALUE ADDED22:36
pwnguinprices in the US don't advertise sales tax because there's a billion jurisdictions22:36
johnsqhttp://geizhals.at/deutschland/a457621.html22:36
pwnguini get sales taxed by the city, county and state22:36
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pwnguinif i walk across the state line, those calculations change22:37
pwnguinfinally, if i have something shipped from out of state, its possible i pay no sales tax22:38
pwnguinie newegg22:38
pwnguinso that's why american perspective writing won't discuss taxes22:39
sp3000timeless_mbp: ok, walking22:39
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* Stskeeps installs bootmenu on his n900 and hopes by god he didn't brick his setup.22:39
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timeless_mbpok, i'll head out in 2min22:39
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timeless_mbppwnguin: most of the people talking here now are americans22:40
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timeless_mbpwe're well aware of how normal taxes work22:40
timeless_mbpeuropean VAT is odd22:40
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andre__I just heavily updated http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugsquad . if anybody feels the urge to proofread before complaining about my denglish, just do it... ;-)22:40
timeless_mbpbecause it's generally included in the listed "base" price22:40
pwnguinoh, im sorry, i misread something22:40
pwnguinmy terminal doesnt seem to render unicode well22:40
timeless_mbppwnguin: no real way for you to know that22:40
pwnguini know how VAT works22:41
pwnguini thought you were boggling at an advertised 500 dollar price, not a 500 euro22:41
timeless_mbpandre__: reading, but i gotta go to meet sp3000 for dinner22:41
timeless_mbppwnguin: oh22:41
timeless_mbpno, i was boggling at the 500 EUR instead of the expected 600 EUR22:41
timeless_mbpand also that they were claiming 750 USD instead of the expected 650 USD22:41
timeless_mbpi.e. *Both* values were wrong22:41
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pwnguinworthless numbers22:42
andre__appreciated. but as said, no urgent need. it's just so popular to complain about bad english nowadays in the community ;-))22:42
pwnguinnewegg has it for $559.0022:42
tigerthttp://www.flickr.com/photos/markoallan/4095348698/in/pool-1184299@N2422:42
timeless_mbpreally, you mean i'm not alone?22:42
pwnguinDell listed it at 600 in a catalog, a catalog with a 15 percent off coupon that included it22:42
timeless_mbpandre__:22:43
timeless_mbp> Add yourself to the "Bugsquad Members list below.22:43
timeless_mbpparser expected " found EOL22:43
pwnguinif the MSRP dropped, its probably because china's been chasing the US in a currency devaluation22:43
timeless_mbppwnguin: afaict the prices haven't really moved at all22:44
timeless_mbpbut the site that someone quoted was evil22:44
timeless_mbpit seems like they unVAT'd the european price22:44
timeless_mbpand then converted that into USD22:44
pwnguinheh22:44
timeless_mbpwhich is bogus because there's always a distinct price across the US/EU line22:44
timeless_mbpand the US price is lower22:44
timeless_mbp650USD+TAX is ~720USD not 750USD22:45
timeless_mbpand the 500EUR is *not* with TAX22:45
timeless_mbpso you wouldn't list the 720 number next to it22:45
timeless_mbp500EUR can be converted to 750USD using a currency converter22:45
pwnguinyou should write them and ask thme to make a note in their style guide22:45
timeless_mbpbut again, 750 isn't the list price in the US22:45
andre__timeless_mbp, thanks. fixed.22:45
pwnguinbecause im sure linuxfordevices.com is a professional outfit that has things like style guides for their writers :)22:46
* timeless_mbp rotfl22:46
* timeless_mbp wanders out the door22:46
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johnsqlets wait until it is one the market for a while22:46
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StskeepsHome directory /home/user not ours.22:48
Stskeepsi wonder if that's why i've been having issues.22:48
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Stskeepsyup. /home/user owned by root22:49
GeneralAntillespwnguin, sadly they seemed to have removed most contact options.22:49
GeneralAntillesI made an email for the guy, let's see if it bounces.22:50
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GeneralAntilless/made/made up/22:50
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: I made up an email for the guy, let's see if it bounces.22:50
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KaKaRoTo-KSHi, how can I get my app added to the maemo 5 repos?22:54
GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras22:56
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* timeless_ looks for sp300022:58
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timelesscool, just in time22:59
PortaLuis the xephyr gui supposed to be running from the armel target?23:01
Stskeepsno23:01
KaKaRoTo-KSGeneralAntilles, thanks, sorry for the obvious link23:02
PortaLuStskeeps:  so it's not possible to arm apps from within the gui side, it has to be compiled as x86?23:02
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Stskeepsyeah, there's a technical limitation23:03
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Stskeepsyou can test all you want on x86 and then as final act build as armel23:03
Stskeepsand put it on your device23:03
lcukhiya KaKaRoTo-KS \o23:03
PortaLui never understood why nokia did that, i mean build an emulator and use that only23:03
KaKaRoTo-KSlcuk, hey :)23:03
StskeepsPortaLu: it is a little difficult to support GLES from within a user level emulated armel target23:04
Stskeepsand it's not an emulator as such. it's the actual SW running on your computer.23:04
* lcuk recognises more people every day lol23:04
PortaLuwell, with a fast machine it'd be usable23:04
PortaLuanyway23:04
lcukStskeeps, spam link again before you start23:04
timelessyeah, sbox is not an emu23:04
PortaLuStskeeps: is there a doc on how to add a new app? I want to port a compiler to this23:05
PortaLuit's part of gcc, but no supported23:05
PortaLunot23:05
lcuk:O i nearly spilt beer on my n900 o_O23:05
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Stskeepslcuk: k23:05
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StskeepsPortaLu: you're in for a lot of pain :/23:05
PortaLuStskeeps: well23:05
PortaLui'll look23:05
PortaLui'm doing this someone else23:05
PortaLufor23:05
Stskeepsscratchbox toolchains nearly drove me mad23:05
PortaLunice23:06
PortaLua friend asked me about adding gnat23:06
Stskeepsada? :P23:06
PortaLuy23:06
Stskeepsright, not worth loosing your sanity over23:06
Stskeeps:P23:06
PortaLuwell23:06
PortaLui need to do it anyway, it's a starting point for my own project23:06
lcukKaKaRoTo-KS, which app are you wanting to add?23:06
Stskeepssure it isn't part of the existing cross-compiler?23:07
PortaLuarm isn't supported publicly, it's a faq in #Ada, I've meaning to look into it for a while23:07
KaKaRoTo-KSlcuk, check http://amsn-project.net/new-www/download.php23:07
lcukcool23:08
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PortaLuStskeeps: so? pointers?23:09
KaKaRoTo-KS:)23:09
KaKaRoTo-KSabout to officially announce/release it23:09
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lcukyou have to go through extras-testing first really23:09
Lorthirkso you're THAT KaKaRoTo :)23:09
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LorthirkI was about to asking you :)23:09
StskeepsPortaLu: you're better off building a toolchain outside scratchbox environment and then adding it to use it23:09
KaKaRoTo-KSLorthirk, lol, yeah :)23:10
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KaKaRoTo-KSam I that famous? ^o)23:10
lcukso once you have uploaded to -devel, you have to get 10 sucke errrr testers to verify that all the QC criteria are accounted for23:10
KaKaRoTo-KSlcuk, what sucks is that Tk is not hildonized23:11
PortaLuStskeeps: you mean, build the cross compiler outside sb and then copy it across into the sandbox?23:11
Lorthirkwell, since i'm on a mac where no official msn nor cocoa-based serious messengers are avaialable ... yes, you are :)23:11
lcukyou dont have to be hildonized, you have to be stable and usable however23:11
StskeepsPortaLu: and then i would use scratchbox2 / maemo sdk+ to avoid going completely mad23:11
KaKaRoTo-KSoh cool then :)23:11
KaKaRoTo-KSLorthirk, hehe, yeah, mac users love us :)23:11
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fralsdoes amsn support logged in at multiple places yet? ;o23:12
Lorthirkeven if i'm switching back to win+lin23:12
lcukas long as the app doesnt blow up in peoples face, run viruses, drain battery or the normal "bad app" syndrome, you should get it through23:12
PortaLuStskeeps: k thanka23:12
PortaLua/s23:12
KaKaRoTo-KSfrals, if you enable a hidden option, yes.. but you loose support for P2P (display pictures, custom emoticons) because the protocol changed23:12
fralscool23:13
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Stskeepsgod, garage is so slow..23:16
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hcarregaany new on dates ?23:18
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Stskeepswhat? they're shipping23:19
Stskeeps:P23:19
SpeedEvil];/23:19
* SpeedEvil checks his order status page.23:20
konttorioh, n900 in uk for free with contract: http://www.nokiaretail.co.uk/Brands/Nokia/Nseries-Multimedia-Phones/sb489/p26078.htm23:20
SpeedEvilnope23:20
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SpeedEvildluu23:21
SpeedEvildeliery mid  nogv clsaim i see23:22
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edgar21would anyone know what might be the reason for my facebook widget on n900 to only give the message "you have no status updates" and nothing else?23:26
edgar21i've tried with different accounts, but the facebook widget never updates23:27
edgar21(please tell me if the question is inappropriate here. i'm kind of new here on the maemo irc channel)23:28
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Stskeepsdo you have any friends?23:29
andre__edgar21, fixed already - see bugs.maemo.org  ;-)23:29
* Stskeeps ducks.23:29
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andre__edgar21, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=609523:30
povbotBug 6095: Facebook widget does not update status feed anymore23:30
andre__just upgrade "feedservice-plugin-fb" to 0.4.723:30
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edgar21thanks povbot and andre_23:34
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andre__no problem23:34
lcukheh @ povbot gettin karma (H)23:35
lcukandre__, the bug report, its not a serious problem because it only occurs after new (unlike old media scanner which when amock anytime)23:36
Robot101:)23:36
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* lcuk robink 23:36
lcukRobot101 \o even23:36
Robot101word23:36
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edgar21will feedservice-plugin-fb be upgraded most easily by temporarily enabling extras-devel?23:36
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edgar21hmm apparently not23:38
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andre__edgar21: it's not in Extras-Devel, it's in "Nokia Applications"23:42
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edgar21oh.23:43
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edgar21so how is it updated?23:44
edgar21it's not to be found either in installed applications or the download section23:44
edgar21and "nokia applications" is enabled in repository23:44
* edgar21 has the feeling something obvious is unknown to him23:45
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KaKaRoTo-KSLorthirk, lcuk : amsn new website is up, with maemo page :)23:48
Lorthirkcool :)23:48
KaKaRoTo-KSnow about 10 million users will go to the website and see the maemo link :p23:48
Lorthirkcan't wait to use it when i'll get n90023:48
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KaKaRoTo-KSLorthirk, you know it's a memory hog, right? :)23:48
Lorthirkof course i do23:49
KaKaRoTo-KSit works quite well, but quite slow to start23:49
Lorthirkbut we have a tiny little monster in our hands :)23:49
* Stskeeps rather likes telepathy-butterfly23:49
KaKaRoTo-KSseems to do a lot of IO, slowing down the device (during startup, and connecting)23:49
KaKaRoTo-KSLorthirk, it is :)23:49
KaKaRoTo-KSStskeeps, yeah, and butterfly should have audio/video call support too, so that's awesome23:50
Lorthirki'd just love to be a decent developer so i would have my say in the n900 world :(23:50
KaKaRoTo-KShehe23:50
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SpeedEvilLorthirk: Devote the time to it, and you can gain a clue.23:50
toggles_wStskeeps: have you tried video to an n810? or Karmic?23:50
Stskeepstoggles_w: i haven't tried video as the front camera is acting funny23:51
LorthirkSpeedEvil: you're right, fo sure... but i'm so... how can i say, scared of some things23:51
Lorthirki'm graduated in computer sciences so i'm supposed to be fast learning those kind of things23:51
Lorthirkbut i just can't find a kickstart23:52
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Stskeepsevening crashanddie23:53
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* Jaffa should go to bed, as he's on GMT+1 and several (ish) pints up23:58
JaffaSamuel Adams Winter Lager FTWQ23:58
Jaffa-Q23:58
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fralsthose are quite nice indeed23:59
JaffaMuch nicer than the normal Sam Adams that I've had in SF23:59

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