| ShadowJK | indeed | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| ShadowJK | especially since I use web, irc and media features more than sms and calls even on my symbian s60 phone | 00:01 |
| Stskeeps | sounds like a n900 is just for you | 00:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:01 |
| pupnik | precisement | 00:02 |
| dolphin | isn't that like eating with fork -- lift? | 00:02 |
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| pupnik | must eat food now, thankx | 00:02 |
| dolphin | get's the thing done, but impractical as hell for the task | 00:03 |
| * GeneralAntilles tries to clean up MS-generated HTML. | 00:04 | |
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| * Stskeeps tries out maemo-mapper clutter version | 00:09 | |
| Stskeeps | right, crashes, good to know | 00:11 |
| Stskeeps | ;p | 00:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's amazing the kind of shit Microsoft forces on people. | 00:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Unreal | 00:11 |
| * b-man17 HATES Microsoft | 00:11 | |
| GeneralAntilles | People call Apple bad, but at least they generate something that looks vaguely like HTML. | 00:12 |
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| wazd | GeneralAntilles: install Dreamweaver -> Clean up MS word HTML | 00:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, really? | 00:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nice. | 00:20 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: or just clean up html | 00:20 |
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| wazd | GeneralAntilles: removes some weird tags | 00:21 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: http://i001.radikal.ru/0911/ce/0e5ba5657133.png | 00:22 |
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| * GeneralAntilles smacks wazd for using Windows. | 00:23 | |
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| jdm | i'm just starting out in maemo devt and working my way through the docs with the vmware appliance. one thing i'm stuck on is the application manager is completely empty - should it have a list of apps in it? | 00:26 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: best OS atm :P | 00:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, fail. | 00:27 |
| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: Please tell me that is not Vista? | 00:27 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: sure it is :) | 00:27 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Oh God | 00:27 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Ah well, I'd rather use that over OS X, at least | 00:28 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: that's the only OS that suits my needs :) | 00:29 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: I'm too lazy to install 7 | 00:29 |
| pwnguin | psh, install maemo x86! | 00:30 |
| wazd | caust then I'll need to find and arrange tons of work files on the HDD | 00:30 |
| wazd | and they are really everywhere :D | 00:30 |
| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: Hehe. I tried Vista but its slew of problems made me reinstall XP. Can't even be arsed to pirate 7 because Vista destroyed my faith in MS... | 00:30 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: you've pirated wrong vista maybe | 00:30 |
| dmj7261 | windows 7 is just a fixed up version of vista | 00:31 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: I just caught a single BSOD in almost a year, after installing SP2 | 00:31 |
| wazd | dmj7261: that's not true | 00:31 |
| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: Nope, this was legit, HP were offering it £10 | 00:31 |
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| wazd | dmj7261: Vista SP2 is a fixed version of Vista :) | 00:31 |
| dmj7261 | It's what MS should have been shipping 3 years ago. | 00:32 |
| pwnguin | wazd: actually, its pretty close. MS says anything that works with vista works with 7 | 00:32 |
| pwnguin | although, my vmware infra client doesnt work on 7 | 00:32 |
| wazd | pwnguin: is that bad? :D | 00:32 |
| dmj7261 | Under the hood it's almost the exact same thing as vista | 00:32 |
| pwnguin | wazd: it means they didnt change much | 00:32 |
| dmj7261 | ...big ui changes to look more like kde 4 though. | 00:32 |
| wazd | pwnguin: that doesn't mean that 7 = Vista | 00:32 |
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| * lbt is booking a flight ... they offer all kinds of meals. I think they should offer "last supper" as a trick to catch terrorists... | 00:33 | |
| dmj7261 | not 7 = vista | 00:33 |
| dmj7261 | 7 ~ Vista | 00:33 |
| wazd | pwnguin: there's no API break maybe | 00:33 |
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| dmj7261 | can you capture at 24 fps on n900? | 00:35 |
| dmj7261 | I know it does 25, but is there an option for 24? | 00:35 |
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| wazd | don't want subliminal adds eh? :D | 00:36 |
| wazd | ads* | 00:36 |
| dmj7261 | just want a frame rate that's semi standard in the US. | 00:36 |
| dmj7261 | I'd love to have really smooth wvga at 30 fps, but 24 would be acceptable too. | 00:37 |
| dreamer_ | anyone know the machine type in arch/arm the N900 falls under? | 00:37 |
| Stskeeps | rx51 | 00:39 |
| luke-jr | dmj7261: neither 30 nor 24 are standard | 00:40 |
| dmj7261 | is there a way to set that? | 00:40 |
| luke-jr | what you really want is 23.976 | 00:41 |
| dmj7261 | is that supported? | 00:41 |
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| dmj7261 | by 30 I do mean 29.97 or whatever it is. | 00:41 |
| * GeneralAntilles is going to try reading just Community/Maemo 6/General once a day. | 00:41 | |
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| wazd | Moscow n900 meetup will use paper n900 mockups I think :D | 00:52 |
| qwerty12_N900 | AK-N900 | 00:52 |
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| wazd | AK-900 then :) | 00:55 |
| dreamer_ | can the 3.5mm jack on the n900 be changed to headset mode, 1mono in 1 mono out? | 00:55 |
| dreamer_ | or 1 mono in 1 stereo out? | 00:56 |
| wazd | It's funny to see what weird things people expect from n900 | 00:56 |
| wazd | when the iPhone came people were like "OMGITKALLZPONIES!" | 00:57 |
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| dreamer_ | wazd: I don't see that as strange, normal audio chipsets with limited inputs allow for dynamic use of them, and seeing how it can be configured for stereo out + video out, that doesn't seem too far out of line | 00:59 |
| wazd | dreamer_: no that's not about your particular case, just a thought | 00:59 |
| Stskeeps | dreamer_: n900 jack is multifunction, headset, tvout and stero out | 01:00 |
| dreamer_ | its the first phone that really has linux on it, so anyone that doesn't see linux as just a buzzword, but knows what it means likes to get their hopes up ;) | 01:00 |
| dreamer_ | Stskeeps, thanks :) | 01:00 |
| dreamer_ | alsamixer can prob set its function then? | 01:00 |
| Stskeeps | no idea what devil stuff has been used this time around | 01:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 01:01 |
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| dreamer_ | it is just gstreamer based, or is that tied into pulse as well? | 01:01 |
| RST38h | heya wazd, all | 01:03 |
| RST38h | Anyone can tell me how I can make Maemo5 GtkDialog take given percentage of the screen? At the moment, it tries to become as small as possible | 01:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dreamer_: (first phone with linux) that's not entirely correct ;-) | 01:05 |
| johnx | dreamer_, check what kind of headset nokia ships with it. IIRC, it's headphones with an included mic | 01:05 |
| wazd | RST38h: heya | 01:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dreamer_: for headset config see http://members.omtp.org/Lists/ReqPublications/Attachments/36/OMTP_Local_Connectivity_Wired_Analogue_Audio_v1_0.pdf | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | and http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Mobile_Technologies/Connectivity_&_Interfaces/Wired_Interfaces/Nokia_AV_2.5mm_and_3.5mm_Connector.xhtml | 01:07 |
| dreamer_ | DocScrutinizer: the one produced by fic doesn't count, no hardware keyboard, and no x no real linux | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's "no x" ? | 01:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and it's actualy NOT produced by FIC | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | never was | 01:09 |
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| johnx | I'm really sad the openmoko didn't get a little further :| | 01:09 |
| johnx | at the very least we can learn some lessons from them | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, but RIP | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 01:09 |
| dreamer_ | sorry, don't know where my mind went while typing, I don't consider it real linux without x | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | you bet | 01:10 |
| johnx | dreamer_, it has X11... (at least in one of the 6+ distros) | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | do you mean X? | 01:10 |
| dreamer_ | yea, I kept waiting for them to release an openmoko handset with a hw keyboard, but that never happened | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd say in at least 3 | 01:10 |
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| dreamer_ | x11 is part of a real linux distro, gui on framebuffer, or linux kernel + other stack != linux | 01:11 |
| johnx | have to disagree there. the zaurus was very linux-y and had qt on fb | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | dreamer_: same here, but my colleagues and esp Sean wasn't very excited by the idea to have that much buttons in the phone ;-D | 01:11 |
| dreamer_ | zaurus had pdaxrom | 01:11 |
| johnx | yeah, had the same proliferation of distros the openmoko had | 01:12 |
| johnx | and they both sputtered out from lack of interest | 01:12 |
| johnx | correlation != causation and all, but it really makes me think | 01:12 |
| dreamer_ | imo sharp made bad choices not including wifi+bluetooth | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | dreamer_: FR *is* a "real linux", with full size X | 01:12 |
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| dreamer_ | full x, so normal apps can be rebuilt to run on the device | 01:13 |
| dreamer_ | I really hope the v6 device has hdmi out, and usb host | 01:14 |
| dreamer_ | so I can plug it into a keyboard/mouse/monitor and not have to worry about a laptop | 01:14 |
| dreamer_ | and higher res support on an external monitor | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | v6 device? | 01:15 |
| johnx | dreamer_, sharp made some really horrible, totally anti-community choices repeatedly, but I think what really drove people away was the constant infighting between distros, and developers spread thin, working on too many incompatible projects | 01:15 |
| dreamer_ | the next device in the progression of nokia's ultimate mobile device | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, the flaw in hw for usb-host is a PITA | 01:15 |
| dreamer_ | johnx: sharp never had a good community around the zaurus line | 01:15 |
| johnx | dreamer_, well, it's still omap3, so look around for an omap3 chip that supports all that | 01:15 |
| dreamer_ | thats why nokia won | 01:15 |
| johnx | dreamer_, yeah, I think there's definitely something about cultivating a community, but I think there's also something about shipping a distro that at least 80% of people are happy with | 01:16 |
| johnx | especially one that hackers and non-hackers are happy with | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | couldn't agree more | 01:16 |
| johnx | on zaurus, users were happy with sharpROM, but hackers weren't | 01:17 |
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| johnx | so sharpROM, even though it worked, didn't get the cool stuff | 01:17 |
| johnx | and hackers working on their own projects, didn't always go out of their way to make things "user friendly" | 01:17 |
| dreamer_ | hence a small dev community for normal users | 01:17 |
| johnx | exactly, with all the cool projects being on other "ROMs" | 01:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I think that's absolutely it. | 01:18 |
| johnx | which is why mer is compatible with maemo :) | 01:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which is one of the really great things about N900 | 01:19 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, a community we hope to expand with mer, without fracturing it | 01:19 |
| dreamer_ | and a larger market for a paid app to be marketed to | 01:20 |
| * GeneralAntilles can't wait until it hits critical mass. | 01:20 | |
| johnx | dreamer_, that'd be a neat side effect ;) | 01:20 |
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| dreamer_ | anyone have an unofficial port of the stock kernel to a newer version? | 01:21 |
| johnx | dreamer_, on the n8x0 devices? | 01:21 |
| dreamer_ | n900 | 01:21 |
| dreamer_ | I want to apply one of the rt patches | 01:21 |
| dreamer_ | but I need a different minor version | 01:21 |
| johnx | I think on the omap3, we should be less locked into a specific version | 01:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, Ovi Store on Mer? | 01:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bizarre. | 01:22 |
| johnx | dreamer_, I'd have to wait until I could reflash before I start playing with that | 01:22 |
| dreamer_ | I've spent a few hours working on it today, but if someone already merged in the trouble spots i'd rather go from there | 01:22 |
| dreamer_ | I don't have one yet either, trying to get some of the boring work out of the way first | 01:22 |
| pwnguin | johnx: should get mer running on a OpenPandora | 01:22 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, dunno. in my case at least I'm not too worried about paid apps. They'll happen once there is money to be made, irregardless of DRM, and "stores" and other stuff like that | 01:23 |
| wazd | ok, gonna get some sleep, cya guys | 01:23 |
| dreamer_ | pwngin: did they even ship | 01:23 |
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| johnx | pwnguin, yes. so much yes. I had my order in 15 minutes after pre-orders started | 01:23 |
| pwnguin | dreamer_: i have no clue. i gave up on them, but if anyone wants to write software for it, it would be useful if it also ran on mer/maemo | 01:23 |
| johnx | dreamer_, are you looking at linux mainline or linux-omap? | 01:23 |
| johnx | dreamer_, no ship date yet, but there are pictures of the case mold (sp?) up | 01:24 |
| johnx | hang on, switching computers | 01:24 |
| dreamer_ | from what I've read mineline + rt patch should give sub msec results | 01:24 |
| dreamer_ | linux-omap didn't have much information on it from what I saw | 01:24 |
| dreamer_ | *mineline = mainline | 01:24 |
| lcuk | hey guys \o | 01:25 |
| kami | hi lcuk | 01:25 |
| pwnguin | johnx: frankly, most of what i see from their community is emulator ports. *yawn* | 01:25 |
| lcuk | pwnguin, what apps do you make then? | 01:26 |
| Termana | hopefully the ovi store doesn't end up like apple's app store - lots of useless apps from developers trying to grab a buck | 01:26 |
| lcuk | why is that a problem? | 01:26 |
| johnx | pwnguin, yeah, all well and good! there's room for lots of people in a community. there's also original games | 01:26 |
| lcuk | if people think they can make a useful app and their friends buy it, whos hurt | 01:26 |
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| johnx | and what if we had a version of linux that ended up making the pandora community and the Nokia devices community into one big maemo/mer community? | 01:27 |
| pwnguin | lcuk: rigth now im working on improving my employer's website. | 01:27 |
| Termana | lcuk - people will make crap apps instead of quality apps | 01:27 |
| dreamer_ | I want to port hydrogen rackkarack fluidsynth and ardour . . . but I need a functional rt kernel and jack first | 01:27 |
| pwnguin | if i were to make a game, it'd probably be something to add to sgt-puzzles | 01:27 |
| lcuk | pwnguin, i meant your own stuff | 01:27 |
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| lcuk | anything - for you | 01:27 |
| lcuk | Termana_n810, is doesnt matter the quality | 01:28 |
| johnx | Termana, will people who were going to make good apps actually decrease their quality? I don't see this as zero-sum | 01:28 |
| lcuk | if your mates buy it, whats the prob bob | 01:28 |
| dreamer_ | in that statement port != new gui | 01:28 |
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| lcuk | if quality was a key factor in anything, things like 4chan wouldnt exist | 01:28 |
| pwnguin | i also write personal webscrapers but that's a hard game to play | 01:28 |
| Termana_n810 | lol | 01:28 |
| johnx | pwnguin, heh. I'd tend to lump webscrapers and emus into the same category :) | 01:29 |
| dreamer_ | pwnguin: n900 comes with perl, it has a webscraper already | 01:29 |
| lcuk | lol johnx | 01:29 |
| lcuk | pwnguin, what do you use the webscraping for? | 01:29 |
| pwnguin | lots of stuff | 01:29 |
| lcuk | like? whats your killer app that needs data like that | 01:30 |
| pwnguin | comic pages, torrents, jobs | 01:30 |
| lcuk | emulators are just like webscrapers - they just scrape old code | 01:30 |
| dreamer_ | I'd like a widget that listens bound to localhost on a given port that you can spit json data to from a background daemon and have it display stuff | 01:30 |
| dreamer_ | then write your scraper in perl, or whatever you like | 01:30 |
| lcuk | theres a great site to scrape data from | 01:31 |
| lcuk | bottomofthebarrel.com | 01:31 |
| pwnguin | my point is it's pretty lame to build an open source gaming platform thats mainly emulators | 01:32 |
| lcuk | o_O my first 100 followers http://twitter.com/lcuk | 01:32 |
| lcuk | pwnguin, its not mainly emulators | 01:32 |
| pwnguin | you know what emulates NES, DMG, GBC, GBA, SNES and plays nds perfectly? | 01:32 |
| lcuk | i tried a couple of these emulators, but they dont do anything | 01:32 |
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| lcuk | so i installed supertux and havent stopped playin it | 01:33 |
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| dreamer_ | game dev content creation takes alot of work | 01:34 |
| pwnguin | sometimes, yes | 01:34 |
| lcuk | very technical question@ full disk encryption, is it compatible with maemo, can i just build and install on the fremantle stack | 01:34 |
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| pwnguin | how would you enter the decryption key? | 01:34 |
| lcuk | i dunno how it works, im merely asking the question i was asked | 01:35 |
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| lcuk | but for the sake of argument, lets assume it was only MyDocs | 01:35 |
| lcuk | so wasnt needed for the boot procedure | 01:35 |
| pwnguin | ubuntu uses a fuse encryption tool, and i think maemo supports fuse | 01:35 |
| pwnguin | so call me crazy, but i think its doable | 01:36 |
| lcuk | i know its not entirely practical, but if someone wanted it. thats good to know. | 01:36 |
| lcuk | its more a "yes, this is a serious linux" :) | 01:36 |
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| pwnguin | dreamer_: if you sidestep the graphics problem its usually not too hard to build a game | 01:37 |
| pwnguin | i mean, theres countless roguelikes, and vector art games | 01:37 |
| * lcuk dreams of new games | 01:38 | |
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| lcuk | wifi @ #bcman2 today was slow | 01:38 |
| lcuk | it wouldv been cool to just hop on and use multicast to play in the area | 01:38 |
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| pwnguin | its too bad soulfu is such a crazy source code license | 01:39 |
| pwnguin | i got it building and patched for ubuntu but theres no way in hell it'll get into debian =/ | 01:39 |
| pwnguin | and i seriously doubt it builds on arm | 01:39 |
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| pwnguin | they took a skeletal animation and cel shading approach to skimp on the art effort | 01:40 |
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| lcuk | i was teasing the cat before | 01:42 |
| lcuk | drawing on liqbase and having it projected on the wall | 01:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (cryptfs) I consider that a rather valid usecase, for business applications where you really need to make sure your data won't stray. And I don't see where it shuld cause any special maemo related problems | 01:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, you sneaky bastard. | 01:59 |
| * lardman gives a final curse to web application REST stuff, then heads for bed | 01:59 | |
| lardman | night all | 02:00 |
| wiretapped | lol | 02:00 |
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| b-man17 | lol, the angstrom image builder died on me xD | 02:06 |
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| markus__ | hi guys, can everyone apt-get update through the repositories? or are they down? | 02:39 |
| jeremiah | garage appears to be up | 02:40 |
| pupnik_ | since your question wont be answered until all others have already answered, i will wait for them first | 02:40 |
| jeremiah | So the repos should be available. | 02:40 |
| markus__ | ahh ok. my armel updates, but x86 won't, strange. is there any way to download them manually? | 02:42 |
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| jeremiah | markus__: There is, but it might take forever | 02:43 |
| jeremiah | The repos live behind a content delivery network | 02:43 |
| jeremiah | So you are probably pulling down from a mirror | 02:44 |
| jeremiah | If your mirror has gone bad, the network should switch you to something else | 02:44 |
| pupnik_ | have you been able to update repos in x86 before today markus__ | | 02:44 |
| jeremiah | Check that you have the right path in your /etc/apt/sources.list | 02:45 |
| markus__ | Not the release.gpg, no | 02:46 |
| markus__ | sources.list appears to be correct too | 02:46 |
| jeremiah | I am able to pull down debs from the repos, so it appears to be working here. | 02:46 |
| markus__ | What a pain, any other tricks? | 02:49 |
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| yuizy | do i need some tricks to compile qt apps for n900? | 02:50 |
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| jeremiah | I don't know any tricks. | 02:50 |
| yuizy | i don't have one yet and i managed to get my big qt projecct work on the emulator | 02:50 |
| jeremiah | yuizy: If it works in the emulator (I assume you mean SDK) then it should work on the device. | 02:51 |
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| markus__ | Do you know if theres any way to individually reroute to another server Jeremiah? | 02:52 |
| yuizy | ok, great | 02:52 |
| yuizy | yeah i meant sdk | 02:52 |
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| JackBeSlow | So I currently have a 770, and am waiting impatiently for an n900, any way I can try out some of the libqbase or other cool things that are being done on my 770? It seems no one is backporting anymore. | 03:03 |
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| JackBeSlow | *liqbase | 03:04 |
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| lcuk | JackBeSlow, a few have tried backporting liqbase to 770, but never more than a cursory glance, it requires the Xv YUV overlay to work | 03:05 |
| JackBeSlow | ah | 03:05 |
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| JackBeSlow | Ha, love that I get a response from the dev. | 03:05 |
| JackBeSlow | Well bummer, guess I just have to wait. | 03:06 |
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| lcuk | yeah unfortunately, someone whos even more bored than you will dig one day no doubt ;) | 03:07 |
| * lcuk goes back to lurking | 03:08 | |
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| JackBeSlow | I don't see many people still using 770s anymore. | 03:08 |
| lcuk | gnite JackBeSlow :) hope its not too long | 03:08 |
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| lcuk | they still exists | 03:08 |
| lcuk | -s | 03:08 |
| lcuk | and those that arent in the rat race with upgrading will still be using them | 03:09 |
| JackBeSlow | :) thanks | 03:09 |
| chris231989 | anybody have luck getting kismet installed on 770 with os2008he? | 03:09 |
| JackBeSlow | chris231989, had it on 2007HE haven't tried it with 2008, heard there were way too many problems with it. | 03:11 |
| chris231989 | i had it with 2007he installed on my flash card but it stopped booting off it a couple days after i got dual boot setup | 03:12 |
| JackBeSlow | :( | 03:13 |
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| JackBeSlow | chris231989, how is 2008 working for you? I was thinkin about updating to play with some newer apps but I haven't read anything about the laundry list of problems with 2008he on the 770 being fixed. | 03:14 |
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| chris231989 | 2008 has been running great load more apps, love the athf startup logo. i did disable the meta-search deally as sugested in a forum somewhere. | 03:18 |
| chris231989 | hasnt crashed yet and no random reboots :) | 03:19 |
| JackBeSlow | and audio? Dependency problems? General slowness? | 03:19 |
| jeremiah | N900 due to be released next week. | 03:19 |
| chris231989 | i havnt had audio issues, no dependency issues yet. seems as quick or quicker than 2007he | 03:20 |
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| JackBeSlow | heh, well there goes my Sunday ;) | 03:22 |
| JackBeSlow | Seriously no audio issues? I couldn't get sound AT ALL when I first installed it. | 03:22 |
| JackBeSlow | Nice. | 03:22 |
| chris231989 | ya i was reading about that, figured i'd try it anyways. i did find a applet that controls sound and screen brightness that allows sound to be turned up louder than normal applet. i was jammin out no prob before i got that. i flashed it with the ltest version avil last week | 03:24 |
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| v2px_ | does aircrack-ng work with the n900 wifi chip? | 03:27 |
| zerojay | Flandry: Are you there? | 03:28 |
| chris231989 | i though aircrack-ng just munched on .dump files | 03:28 |
| chris231989 | collected with some other app | 03:28 |
| v2px_ | chris231989: hmm may be true. so does $OtherApp work then? :P | 03:29 |
| JackBeSlow | v2px_, From what I have been told it is the same issue as on 8x0s it "works" but no packet injection | 03:30 |
| v2px_ | hm okay, thanks | 03:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | airodump == $OtherApp | 03:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and as aircrack really is a cpu-hog, it's probably not the brilliant idea to run it on a mobile device with rather limited cpu grunt and small power source capacity | 03:42 |
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| ShadowJK | wep is so weak.. probably omap3 and omap2 don't even break a sweat | 03:53 |
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| JackBeSlow | wep is only easy to break using packet injection, without that it can take a good while (30 minutes easy) | 03:55 |
| ShadowJK | easy :) | 03:56 |
| JackBeSlow | If you are just sniffing regular traffic, or worse light traffic it takes a while | 03:56 |
| ShadowJK | what annoys me most is when I have clear-wire access to everything | 03:56 |
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| ShadowJK | and can't use it | 03:57 |
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| v2px_ | ShadowJK: you need a eth<->bluetooth thingy :D | 04:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | AP? | 05:17 |
| johnx | associated press? | 05:17 |
| johnx | ~AP | 05:18 |
| infobot | i guess ap is advanced placement, a way to get ahead on college, maybee, or gay | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd say usb<->ethernet, but wait... we got no hostmode :-( | 05:18 |
| johnx | we will eventually I believe | 05:18 |
| johnx | unless something arose between october and now | 05:18 |
| JackBeSlow | johnx, Really? From all that I have read it seems to be a hardware issue/usb OTG spec issue. | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | what happened in October? | 05:19 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, people were saying it was software and lack of certifications, but the hardware was hooked up | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | except DST->winter time | 05:20 |
| johnx | JackBeSlow, the spec issue was that they couldn't call it "usb host" and ship it with a micro-A port unless the software was ready to pass spec | 05:20 |
| JackBeSlow | hmm ok | 05:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | johnx: seems I completely missed that. It's been me and another few who speculated the SoC-USB-interface should be able to do both sides of protocol | 05:21 |
| johnx | but since they were intending to support host mode up until late in the game, I *think* it's likely that everything is hooked up and they just went with the usb- micro b socket instead | 05:21 |
| JackBeSlow | Frankly that sounds awesome, usb-host offers a whole new world of opportunities. Can you point me at anything that confirms that? | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | but we probably miss the usb power source | 05:22 |
| johnx | JackBeSlow, nope. because it's not confirmed | 05:22 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, probably similar to the n8x0 in that it has 100mA hooked up for power | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's fair enough | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | if it's true | 05:23 |
| johnx | JackBeSlow, I used to think so too, but after you attach all the stupid adapters, it's kind of just a pain | 05:23 |
| johnx | look around for the pics of people with an n800 hooked into a powered hub hooked into one silly little thumbdrive | 05:24 |
| JackBeSlow | Well depends on how well/badly it is supported in the hardware, in the 770 yeah it was a huge pain, in the n8x0s it wasn't bad at all | 05:24 |
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| JackBeSlow | Wait the n8x0's don't need external power I thought. | 05:24 |
| JackBeSlow | I thought that was only the 770 | 05:24 |
| johnx | JackBeSlow, not if your usb device is happy with 100mA | 05:24 |
| JackBeSlow | ah, ok | 05:24 |
| johnx | that's most usb drives, some keyboards, few ethernet adapters | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | most kbds | 05:25 |
| JackBeSlow | Exactly, which is what I would want to hook up. | 05:25 |
| johnx | JackBeSlow, I haven't found it that useful except for my usb keyboard, but I guess some people love it | 05:25 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, depends on who you ask :) | 05:25 |
| johnx | it's hit and miss | 05:25 |
| v2px_ | usb<->ethernet? nice.. how? | 05:25 |
| johnx | v2px_, on the n800, n810 or n900? | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | the ones with keycaps backlite will fail ;-D | 05:26 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, my caps lock light doesn't work, but the keyboard is happy :) | 05:26 |
| JackBeSlow | I think being able to load something off a flashdrive can be a real convenient feature. The keyboard is the main thing for me though, that and I would love to upload sketches to my non-bluetooth arduino from it. | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ack | 05:27 |
| v2px_ | johnx: i'm looking forward to see it on the n900 | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | also a second wlan stick to do packet injection might come in handy | 05:27 |
| johnx | v2px_, then wait until it's out. no one knows yet. even the people who have one don't know, since they aren't testing kernels since it's hard to flash back without the retail software images | 05:27 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, too power hungry for sure :) get out your powered hub and wall wart | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | bah, switch down TX power to 10mW | 05:28 |
| johnx | JackBeSlow, flashdrive? yeah somewhat useful. keyboard? get a nice foldable bt one. arduino? yeah, that'd be neat :D | 05:28 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, can't do that until the device successfully negotiates for power | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch | 05:29 |
| johnx | it's a usb spec thing | 05:29 |
| johnx | OTOH, you can see which ones work by watching to logs on a desktop linux machine | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, it's *us* to manage the enum | 05:29 |
| johnx | at some debug level (maybe default) it'll tell you how much power the usb device wanted, what configuration options it had | 05:29 |
| JackBeSlow | johnx, which bt keyboard do you use? I want to get one but haven't started researching yet, I am pretty rough on keys as I am used to my Model M | 05:30 |
| johnx | JackBeSlow, I don't have one, but the stowaway foldables are nice (used someone else's) | 05:30 |
| JackBeSlow | ah | 05:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | so who cares if the fsckng stick negotiates for 2000mA, as long as actual power consumption stays below what N900 can provide | 05:31 |
| johnx | I needed a usb keyboard for early boot debugging while getting debian/n800 going | 05:31 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, yeah, if you want to hack the drivers, disable the checking, and hope it doesn't blow a fuse trying to draw 500mA before you tell it to reduce power | 05:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | USB has to be short resistent | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | no blowfuse | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe an electronic one | 05:32 |
| johnx | well, it's your device, so "use the source, luke" :) | 05:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | :) | 05:33 |
| johnx | as for me, I'll wait to see how it goes for you :> | 05:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | does anybody know which powermanagement chip N900 uses? | 05:34 |
| yuizy | does anyone have an example of how to use libalarm? | 05:34 |
| yuizy | i can't get it to execute commands | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, I mean... can anybody please tell me? | 05:35 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, might I be able to find out from the kernel? | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: as for powered hostmode, it's mandatory to disable USB-charging | 05:35 |
| johnx | well, yeah | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: you might. Me not (yet) | 05:36 |
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| johnx | what I mean is, if I wanted to look for you on this n900, could i do it without taking the device apart? :P | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | in kernel it's usually called regulators etc, but I guess that's closed Nokia blobs | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | you might find a few nice names in /sys maybe | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | tough usually only .../I2C.foo.bar/... | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: of course taking the device apart and uploading a few hires pics would be the optimum ;-D | 05:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I asked for that maybe 2 weeks ago XD | 05:41 |
| johnx | yeah. my record for even having *laptops* work after they pass through my "operating table" is about 50/50 | 05:41 |
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| johnx | and nokia wants this one back :) | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | gnah | 05:41 |
| johnx | coolest thing ever: not knowing where my n900 is in the house and still being able to ssh to it :D | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | make it playback some nasty techno ;-) | 05:42 |
| yuizy | nvm, i managed to figure it out by myself (libalarm thing) | 05:42 |
| johnx | I need to get some tunneling happening to make it accessible over 3G | 05:42 |
| johnx | yuizy, was it documented somewhere? or just guess+test? | 05:42 |
| JackBeSlow | Hmm, have flite installed? Have it call out to you :) | 05:42 |
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| johnx | it's not on my n900 | 05:43 |
| johnx | I had a cool copy-buffer text2speech hack on the n800 though :) | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, you can ssh to it, you can install whatever you want | 05:44 |
| JackBeSlow | Might not be in the repos yet. | 05:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | except new kernel maybe | 05:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | and of course new sshd is a bit tricky | 05:45 |
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| johnx | oh, I can *install* a new kernel, but I don't have a copy of the current one in a sane format | 05:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as is wifi drver | 05:45 |
| JackBeSlow | DocScrutinizer, No it isn't just install a second instance of it running on a different port :P | 05:45 |
| johnx | it's the old "walk the tightrope with no net" thing :) | 05:45 |
| JackBeSlow | DocScrutinizer, Hmm, yeah wifi would be a problem too | 05:46 |
| johnx | I've reinstalled ssh inside screen. and brought ifaces up and down too | 05:46 |
| JackBeSlow | Unless you could do the reverse of a normal tether over bluetooth... | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | a ice script called from cron can do miracles. | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nice | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | even recover from a messed up sshd install | 05:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, a complete ls -lr /sys is quite appreciated | 05:49 |
| johnx | sure | 05:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | though I had to learn today hostmode switching in mer is via modprbe aiui :-S | 05:50 |
| johnx | want dmesg too? | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | I had a pastebin of dmesg iirc | 05:51 |
| johnx | http://pastebin.com/f48c5e6bf | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: thanks :-) content of /sys/bus/i2c/drivers: seems enough to google for next 30 min ;) | 05:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | heh lis302l. Same gmeters as FR | 05:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | ""The TWL4030 is the optimized all-in-one audio and power manager"" | 06:00 |
| johnx | well, there it is :) | 06:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | ""The AD5820 is a single 10-bit DAC with 100 mA output current sink capability..."" o,O | 06:02 |
| johnx | hmm? what's O_o about that? | 06:03 |
| johnx | (use short words. I'm not an electronics guy. i just play one on TV) | 06:03 |
| johnx | also, AFAIK, they were planning a micro-A port right up until they hit the USB certification brick wall | 06:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | that sounds quite appropriate for a 100mA USB power source capable even of OTG SNP | 06:03 |
| johnx | soooo, what happens if you try to pull 200mA through it for a couple seconds? | 06:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | they should have used a micro-AB | 06:04 |
| johnx | they couldn't | 06:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet nothing bad | 06:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | why? | 06:04 |
| johnx | the USB guys wouldn't give them the USB logo cert if they had an A port that didn't work out of the box | 06:05 |
| johnx | and they wanted to ship the device, then go back and do the software | 06:05 |
| johnx | just like with the n800 | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | what a nonsense | 06:05 |
| johnx | basically | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | I really wouldn't care if thwre's a USB-cert sticker on it | 06:06 |
| johnx | to put this in perspective: you're also talking about hacking kernel drivers to override over-current protection | 06:06 |
| johnx | you don't represent the "meat" of their target demo | 06:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | errr? | 06:07 |
| johnx | s/demo/demographic/ | 06:07 |
| infobot | johnx meant: you don't represent the "meat" of their target demographic | 06:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | really, OC-prot shouldn't be a sw duty | 06:07 |
| johnx | I think the idea is multiple layers of protection | 06:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I don't see where and why to hack kernel drivers | 06:08 |
| johnx | well, if your wifi usb stick only requires 100mA in whatever low-power mode it has (maybe monitor mode), but it always asks for 500mA, you could just hack out the overcurrent protection on the n900 side | 06:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, ack | 06:09 |
| johnx | I thought that's what you were getting at earlier | 06:09 |
| johnx | I have a dir called "usb_host" under /sys/class | 06:10 |
| johnx | anyone explored that yet? | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically that's no protection, but simply a "I can't do that, so when you ask for it you're out of luck" | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | not me ;-P | 06:11 |
| johnx | oh...I wonder if I should see what happens if I try and set it to host mode | 06:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2009-11-06 18:08:09] <markd_> question for the mer devs...how does one activate USB Host mode on an N810 running Mer? I've tried the old 'echo host > /sys.../mode' command, but it doesn't take. It did work when running Maemo. TIA. | 06:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2009-11-06 18:09:34] <Stskeeps> look in merlogs, search for g_file_storage | 06:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2009-11-06 18:17:46] <markd_> thx. modprobe g_file_storage did the trick | 06:12 |
| johnx | hmm? | 06:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought it's faintly related | 06:13 |
| johnx | only kinda | 06:14 |
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| johnx | yeah, I've found my way around usb on the n800, so if it works it shouldn't be too hard | 06:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: so go pick p your N900, where ever you dropped it ;-D | 06:16 |
| johnx | I did | 06:16 |
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| johnx | already have my weirdo usb female-A to female-A hooked up too | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeeha, now you talk | 06:17 |
| johnx | nothing so far | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 06:19 |
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| johnx | has a usb-storage.ko ... | 06:24 |
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| johnx | eh, no luck AFAIK | 06:33 |
| johnx | back later | 06:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, the ambient light sensor can probe visible and IR separately. And can create interrupts with a max resolution of 13.7ms | 06:52 |
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| * DocScrutinizer wonders if that's fast enough to learn IR-remote codes | 06:53 | |
| johnx | why not just use the IR sender/receiver? | 06:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I only heard of IR-TX so far | 06:54 |
| johnx | weelll...let me check then :) | 06:54 |
| johnx | the chip is TX/RX capable. would be silly if they didn't hook up both | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | though it would be really surprising to learn they didn't use a IrDA module | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep :-D | 06:55 |
| johnx | well, IRDA != IR TV remote though | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | not exactly, they even do different wavelength | 06:55 |
| johnx | as in, not all IRDA devices can be controlled at a low enough level to do the tv-remote thing | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | and a lot of IrDA operate not so good on the usual remote carrier like 34KHz, 38KHz etc | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: that's another problem, yes | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | when the IrDA module has e.g. built-in UART or sth like that | 06:57 |
| johnx | yeah | 06:58 |
| johnx | the Cxx00 zaurus had that "problem" | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | most of them don't | 06:58 |
| johnx | though someone said it could be worked around in software ... by banging on it with gpio? (don't quote me. years ago and outside my field...) | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | PalmV worked quite god, but really poor power, so only 1..2m | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | good | 06:59 |
| johnx | (that was in reference to the zaurus, though, not the n900) | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | (gpio) that's when you use a SoC-UART | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | which I suppose is the most common setup | 07:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yet I hope they will improve the bl-driver in N900. In N810 it's abysmal laggy and coarse steps | 07:03 |
| johnx | backlight? | 07:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | almost like my light swotch on the wall ;-) | 07:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 07:04 |
| johnx | have you played with advanced backlight? | 07:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, got a combined systray control for bl and volume (iirc) | 07:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | now things are even more messed up | 07:05 |
| johnx | more messed up? in what way? | 07:05 |
| johnx | AFAIK, adv backlight is pretty well tested | 07:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems there are to "governours" for bl-brightness | 07:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | tWo | 07:06 |
| johnx | as in "manual" and "light sensor"? | 07:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | and they can't negotiate who's boss | 07:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | kinda, yes | 07:06 |
| johnx | yeah. I remember that being a problem a long time ago, but I thought it was fixed | 07:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | might exactly be on the point, though I never investigated | 07:07 |
| johnx | basically nokia's brightness controls are kinda ... "clingy" ... they just can't let go :) | 07:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, that's what it "feels" like | 07:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | also kbd-illum is kinda weird. Switches on and of randomly sometimes | 07:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, there's no API for controlling the light sensor. :\ | 07:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, so we have to rip out Nokia's logic and replace it wholesale with our own. | 07:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which hasn't happened | 07:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 07:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-/ | 07:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | So it's recommended to go ahead and rip out Nokia's logic and just use ABL in manual. | 07:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, N900 is a bit better. | 07:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | good to know | 07:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | But there's still only 5 settings on the default applet | 07:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 07:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | and mostly it seems like two | 07:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | 1-4 are "low" 5 is "high" | 07:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 07:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | We'll probably replace it with our own programmable logic at some point. | 07:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds sensible | 07:12 |
| johnx | yeah, nokia's distro design has come a long way | 07:12 |
| johnx | there were some real WTF moments looking at the maemo4 initscripts | 07:13 |
| johnx | such as USER='user' up at the top | 07:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 07:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not sure Maemo 5's lightsensor logic is going to be more sensible to replace. | 07:13 |
| johnx | aside: I can't believe there are 500 posts in the usb host thread and I'm the first one to try turning it on... | 07:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, qole tried. | 07:15 |
| johnx | ah. that's good at least | 07:15 |
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| johnx | I didn't feel like reading the whole thing, so I only skimmed 4 or 5 pages | 07:15 |
| johnx | I'd bet money we get it working within a week of retail launch | 07:16 |
| johnx | back later | 07:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | bring money ;-) | 07:16 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, I never said my own money ... :) | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | when they switched from micro-AB to micro-B just to make sure there won't be any "unsupported" hostmode, I bet they saved the 60cent for the step-up converter to power it as well | 07:18 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, just like they didn't on the n800 and n810? | 07:18 |
| johnx | the thing has an fm radio built in with no software support. I don't think they skimped 60c | 07:19 |
| johnx | especially given how late in the design it was | 07:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | the switch of a receptacle *impossibly* can be done late in design. You need new molds for the housing | 07:20 |
| johnx | how different is micro-a and micro-b? | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe they accidentally used B instead of AB from beginning, and now *that's* their issue with USB-cert ;-P | 07:21 |
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| johnx | heh :P | 07:22 |
| johnx | (seriously though, it's on the maemo-dev list | 07:22 |
| johnx | ) | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | (how different) wikipedia is your friend | 07:24 |
| johnx | usb otg article doesn't have pics | 07:24 |
| johnx | which one are you looking at? | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | search for micro-ab | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc | 07:24 |
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| johnx | found it | 07:25 |
| johnx | thanks | 07:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 07:25 |
| johnx | definitely a different case mold...maybe they had both cases made up just in ... case? | 07:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | muhaha | 07:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oops offline | 07:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | the whole story of a late switch of USB receptacle is a complete hoax IMHO | 07:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | or maybe a half hoax, if they really realized too late they should have used another receptacle | 07:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | but anyway, if they intentionally designed the molds for a micro-B, then for sure they did the layout without support for USB-hostmode-power. Or they screwed it completely (what btw wasn't the first time I seen EE screwing up some design details :-P ) | 07:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | ok, let's give watchdog another chance to reboot N810 plus xchat | 07:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, they never had plans to use Micro-AB | 07:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm certain of that. | 07:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | They were planning to support host like they did with the N8x0 | 07:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | I have to admit I have no idea what that receptacle here in front of my nose actually is. Is that a B type on N810? | 08:04 |
| pwnguin | USB is stupid like that | 08:04 |
| pwnguin | never heard of micro-ab though | 08:05 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | anyway I basically don't care, as long as it knows hostmode for prot and power | 08:05 |
| pwnguin | prot? | 08:05 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | logical (and pulldown R) protocol of datalines | 08:05 |
| pwnguin | oh, protocol | 08:06 |
| pwnguin | i thought you were talking profiles or something | 08:06 |
| pwnguin | so what happens when you plug a n810 into another n810 via usb? | 08:07 |
| luke-jr | the universe collapses. | 08:08 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | for any reasonable usecase you need a kind of adapter or cable anyway. So I really don't care too much what type of plug is on one end of that thingy | 08:08 |
| luke-jr | pwnguin: USB OTG cables have a host-end and client-end | 08:09 |
| luke-jr | err, host/slave | 08:09 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | depends. if you switch one to hostmode, they probably got a chance to talk to each other | 08:09 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | luke-jr: yep | 08:09 |
| pwnguin | oh, you have to manually set hostmode? | 08:09 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | pwnguin: yep | 08:10 |
| luke-jr | you have to manually set hostmode if you aren't using an OTG cable | 08:10 |
| luke-jr | OTG cables automate it | 08:10 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | not sure about that on N810 | 08:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | pwnguin, AB is OTG. | 08:10 |
| pwnguin | problem solved | 08:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | usually host end has ID-pin short to GND | 08:10 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | though OTG can negotiate to reverse that | 08:11 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | what honestly nobody ever will need | 08:12 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | but adds significantly to the joys of OTG EE design | 08:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | GeneralAntilles: AB *receptacle* is OTG. AFAIK ther's no such thing like a AB-plug | 08:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, yes, I know. :) | 08:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | and as a device with AB-receptacle doesn't know it that's an A or B type plug it is hookedup to, they (=USB authorities) defined the A-plugs have to short ID-pin to GND so you can tell apart | 08:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | if N810 has a B-type receptacle, it seems rather senseless to detect that short ID to switch to hostmode automatically, as there aren't any standard B-plugs with that short anyway | 08:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | People made them custom. | 08:21 |
| Macer | hello | 08:22 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | hrhrr, same as I did for FR (by defining we should support that scheme) | 08:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | interestingly enough newer(?) OTG supplement even defines certain R-values for detecting Y-cable for externally powered hostmode | 08:25 |
| pwnguin | heh | 08:28 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | without that mode stationary usecases like fullsize kbd wouldn't be much fun, as device runs out of bat quite rapidly. Or you had to unplug all slaves to recharge master | 08:28 |
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| pwnguin | true | 08:29 |
| pwnguin | hmm | 08:29 |
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| pwnguin | how long does the device run for on a full charge then? | 08:29 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | less than without attached external kbd ;-) | 08:30 |
| pwnguin | keyboards dont pull that much power | 08:30 |
| pwnguin | although i suppose they're not exactly power optimized | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | not exactly | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | some few 100mW for sure | 08:31 |
| pwnguin | but if you try to use it as a desktop replacement, you wouldnt want to switch between power and use | 08:32 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | so with the converter loss a bat would last maybe 10h for kbd *only* | 08:32 |
| pwnguin | it makes me sad that my monitor is failing | 08:33 |
| pwnguin | cuz its gonna be hard to replace it. it was expensive four years ago, and hasnt fallen in price =/ | 08:33 |
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| pwnguin | everythings widescreen now, and too big to rotate for reading | 08:35 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | IMHO power/charge over USB was the most stupid invention. And china & EU adoping that as a mandatory feature for all phones made things really worse | 08:35 |
| pwnguin | i dont think it's such a bad idea to have everything in one cable | 08:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not benefitting from it so far. | 08:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pretty obnoxious. | 08:38 |
| Lupu | I've used it to charge cameras off laptop batteries on the road. | 08:38 |
| Lupu | Quite convenient, I'd say. | 08:39 |
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| dmj7261 | Given the somewhat restricted storage on the device, usb host would be quite handy. | 08:39 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | now the dumbasses are requesting to power laptops with the same wallwart usb PSU as well | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | muhahahaaaaaa | 08:40 |
| dmj7261 | um...I'm not sure that they're going to like the charging times | 08:40 |
| Lupu | Of course. There are always dumbasses for everything. :) | 08:40 |
| Lupu | Can't blame USB for that, though. | 08:40 |
| Macer | in french | 08:42 |
| Macer | bios = bwa ? | 08:42 |
| luke-jr | BIOS is an acronym... and unlikely different in other languages. | 08:44 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | sorry, couldn't care less about those weird frenchmen and their habit to translate even names | 08:44 |
| luke-jr | lol | 08:44 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | luke-jr: aaha, like SIDA, OTAN, and dunno what else | 08:45 |
| Macer | i thought like | 08:45 |
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| Macer | dubois was dubwa | 08:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | a country that has laws to forbid radio broadcast to send less than 50% songs with french text IMHO has a severe problem | 08:47 |
| Lupu | I was visiting France when the Simpsons movie came out. We couldn't find a single theatre that wouldn't have it dubbed. | 08:52 |
| Macer | haha | 08:52 |
| Lupu | Later, after returning to Finland, I went to watch it and was severely dissapointed, but that's another story. | 08:52 |
| Macer | i was just curious | 08:52 |
| luke-jr | Lupu: the USA is the same :/ | 08:52 |
| Macer | i know on ncis there is a girl named bobbi soemething | 08:52 |
| Macer | she played a dr on the show | 08:53 |
| dmj7261 | I've seen subbed movies in the US | 08:53 |
| Lupu | luke-jr: You don't get the Simpsons in any other language than English? What a pity :D | 08:53 |
| Macer | i was wodndering wh oshe is | 08:53 |
| luke-jr | dmj7261: in theatres | 08:53 |
| luke-jr | Lupu: Simpsons sucks. I meant good stuff. | 08:53 |
| dmj7261 | oh...on tv it's all dubbed | 08:53 |
| luke-jr | which is often in Japanese. | 08:53 |
| dmj7261 | well, all the stuff that wasn't english in the first place. | 08:54 |
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| luke-jr | exactly my point | 08:54 |
| luke-jr | I think the only movie in theatres that wasn't in English was The Passion. | 08:54 |
| dmj7261 | You need the internet or dvd releases to get subs | 08:54 |
| Lupu | Yep, it's definitely a benefit for the Finnish people that TV only adds subs, only childrens' shows are dubbed. | 08:54 |
| luke-jr | maybe LotR too? | 08:54 |
| Macer | oh | 08:54 |
| Macer | Scottie Thompson | 08:54 |
| Lupu | The same goes for cinemas also. | 08:54 |
| Macer | my bad | 08:54 |
| luke-jr | dmj7261: that's not in a theatre | 08:54 |
| luke-jr | I'm sure you can get DVDs and internet in English in France too | 08:55 |
| dmj7261 | Pan's Labyrinth (El laberinto del fauno) was in spanish here. | 08:55 |
| luke-jr | Lupu: the USA takes not-so-children's-shows and turns them into children's shows via dubbing... | 08:55 |
| dmj7261 | Yeah, that happens with some animes. | 08:55 |
| Macer | http://www.airdecker.com/air/blog/images/2008_05/scottie-thompson-jeanne-benoit.jpg | 08:56 |
| Macer | she has sexy eyes | 08:56 |
| luke-jr | ... | 08:56 |
| dmj7261 | I'm not a huge anime watcher, I like a few though, like Time of Eve. | 08:57 |
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| Jaffa | Morning all | 10:16 |
| thux | morning | 10:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Morning. | 10:18 |
| * SpeedEvil needs a coffee maker. | 10:18 | |
| SpeedEvil | I can't face getting out of bed. | 10:19 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders going back to sleep. | 10:19 | |
| Xisdibik | Evening | 10:19 |
| * Xisdibik is just getting into bed TO sleep :) | 10:20 | |
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| infobot | I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power | 11:36 |
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| RST38h | Anyone can help me with a new-styled Maemo5 dialog? | 12:13 |
| RST38h | I am adding items to it, but it does not start scrolling :( | 12:13 |
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| wazd | heya all | 12:17 |
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| RST38h | hey awazd | 12:18 |
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| hrw|oedem | hi guys | 12:21 |
| RST38h | hrw: Have you by any chance done any maemo5 ui programming? | 12:21 |
| hrw|oedem | no | 12:23 |
| RST38h | pity. | 12:23 |
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| hrw|oedem | RST38h: first I want to get device then will think about doing some stuff | 12:23 |
| RST38h | true... | 12:23 |
| hrw|oedem | RST38h: and it would rather be Qt | 12:24 |
| * RST38h looks through Modest source code: it is funny how hard you have to try simulating C++ in C | 12:24 | |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: may not be the best example, either ;-) | 12:28 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well, yes, we are talking serious wikipediness there, complicated by disregard for actual users of the application | 12:29 |
| RST38h | I need an example of creating a scrollable settings dialog though and Modest is the only source I could think about | 12:30 |
| Jaffa | Ah. when I tried puttin Hermes' preferences in a PannableArea the rendering got seriously FUBAR | 12:31 |
| RST38h | PannableArea do not seem to work inside dialogs | 12:31 |
| RST38h | I have not found what works yet | 12:31 |
| qwerty12 | Worked for Transmission's dialogs, although I'm told I'm doing something wrong =) | 12:32 |
| johnx | qwerty12, they're just haters :) | 12:32 |
| RST38h | Can I see the code? =) | 12:32 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: PannableArea works with a Treeview in a dialogu; but not with a vbox | 12:32 |
| Jaffa | (IME) | 12:32 |
| Jaffa | Is spodding from inside a church (abefore* the service) on an N900 blasphemy? | 12:33 |
| johnx | what the heck is spodding? I feel so un-hip right now ... | 12:34 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: I'm doing it the wrong way, but this should be correct (So I hear, anyway): new pannable area, new vbox (and add your widgets there), use hildon_pannable_area_add_with_viewport to add the new vbox to the pannable area and use gtk_box_pack_start to add this new vbox to the dialog's vbox | 12:35 |
| qwerty12 | No, use gtk_box_pack_start to add the pannable area to the dialog's vbox | 12:35 |
| qwerty12 | johnx: I'm told by GTK itself =) | 12:35 |
| qwerty12 | Should sort it out now, actually... | 12:35 |
| johnx | gtk is just jealous that you're always thinking about Qt :D | 12:36 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Wait, so the same vbox gets added to both pannable area AND the dialog??? | 12:36 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Read the next sentence | 12:36 |
| qwerty12 | johnx: Dislike Qt... :-) | 12:37 |
| qwerty12 | Anyway, until I try this for myself, I'm talking out of my ass here. Give me a sec | 12:37 |
| johnx | really? it's the only thing I ever had any luck making a UI with (unless you count printf as a UI ...) | 12:37 |
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| lbt | nb the Qt finger scrollarea should work fine with buttons etc. It's just a normal scrollable. | 12:39 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Ok. So, I add pannable to dialog vbox. Then add my own vbox to pannable. Then add widgets to my own vbox? | 12:40 |
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| qwerty12 | RST38h: This works (no errors outputted, yay!): http://pastebin.com/dcd5407e | 12:54 |
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| DantonicN800 | houw do i edit a .conf file? how do I llaunch leafpad as root? | 13:38 |
| johnxx | DantonicN800, try a command line editor like vi or nano | 13:40 |
| DantonicN800 | ew vi | 13:41 |
| t_s_o | or install rootsh | 13:41 |
| Veggen | DantonicN800: Anyone who says that, haven't understood a thing ;) | 13:41 |
| t_s_o | then do "rootsh leafpad file" | 13:41 |
| johnxx | also, qwerty12, why did you disable the rootsh part of rootsh? | 13:41 |
| DantonicN800 | ? | 13:42 |
| DantonicN800 | like sudo? | 13:42 |
| qwerty12 | johnxx: 'twas pointed out to me that it was, indeed, a security risk. But the versions with it disabled are in extras-devel | 13:42 |
| johnxx | echo exploit | root | 13:42 |
| johnxx | how is that different? | 13:42 |
| t_s_o | who, and where? | 13:42 |
| DantonicN800 | someone gave me a command once that forced to open a file as root. cant remember it | 13:43 |
| qwerty12 | johnxx: You raise a good point there | 13:44 |
| johnxx | DantonicN800, and vi is awesome...just not with the n800 onscreen keyboard :) | 13:44 |
| t_s_o | hrmf, never mind my last example DantonicN800, i forgot that leafpad do not really like being launched via rootsh, it seems its missing some "lib" or daemon... | 13:44 |
| qwerty12 | t_s_o: rootsh run-standalone.sh leafpad | 13:44 |
| johnxx | qwerty12, I think we should disable all root access. why doesn't Nokia protect us from this stuff? *ducks* | 13:44 |
| DantonicN800 | thats it!!! | 13:44 |
| DantonicN800 | run-standalone!!! | 13:44 |
| t_s_o | qwerty12: that may be, cant say i am familiar with that .sh | 13:44 |
| LeoD | i want a N900 noooooooow :( | 13:45 |
| konttori | just 5 more days | 13:45 |
| SpeedEvil | LeoD: There are stores where you can get that hands-on experience. | 13:45 |
| LeoD | well i'm in europe and it seems they haven't even announced a release day yet | 13:45 |
| SpeedEvil | LeoD: Just don't remove the hands while exiting at speed. | 13:45 |
| DantonicN800 | yay run-standalone.sh leafpad works | 13:45 |
| DantonicN800 | ty | 13:45 |
| LeoD | SpeedEvil: haha :D | 13:46 |
| t_s_o | ugh, searching the wiki for info on run-standalone.sh produced a whole lot of noise... | 13:46 |
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| konttori | LeoD: W47 at earliest afaik, but could be later. I will be later than the states. But if you order through nokia web site, you should be able to get it no matter where you are (afaik) | 13:47 |
| LeoD | it costs 560 dollars in the US and 600 euros here in germany.. so unfair :( | 13:47 |
| konttori | you can get it for 519 from dell in the states, | 13:47 |
| LeoD | hm, i might try the web site.. | 13:47 |
| BluesLee | LeoD: about 500 euros from alternate | 13:48 |
| LeoD | BluesLee: nice! :D | 13:49 |
| wazd | russian preorders opened | 13:49 |
| LeoD | i think amazon had it for 500 euros too previously, but the price is fluctuating a lot still | 13:49 |
| kynky | was £250 a bit ago :) | 13:49 |
| wazd | only about 1k euro :D | 13:49 |
| LeoD | :O | 13:49 |
| BluesLee | LeoD: no, it was pending between 560 and 600 euros | 13:50 |
| LeoD | oh | 13:50 |
| LeoD | how can it be so cheap on alternate? | 13:50 |
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| kynky | 3x15% off + £50 cashback | 13:50 |
| BluesLee | LeoD: i preordered mine for 560 euros from amazon, but i will not cancel it and preorder from somewhere else as i dont know if this will extend my waiting time;-) | 13:51 |
| LeoD | BluesLee: hehehe :> | 13:52 |
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| * SpeedEvil ordered it at the stupid discount rate too. But I'm not 100% sure it'll happen | 13:52 | |
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| archebyte | hi all.. | 14:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | hi | 14:05 |
| LeoD | hi | 14:06 |
| archebyte | I am trying to find a way to use IRC on my N900.. can anyone help? | 14:06 |
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| LeoD | i've seen xchat ported to maemo, dunno if that works on the N900 though | 14:07 |
| johnxx | works ok | 14:07 |
| qwerty12_N900 | archebyte: apt-get install xchat=2.8.6-maemo10fremantle1 | 14:07 |
| johnxx | seems kinda crashy | 14:07 |
| johnxx | ah, and of course it's crashy because I have the wrong version :) | 14:07 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | johnxx: You have my version installed, go figure :) | 14:08 |
| archebyte | tks @qwerty12_N900. I will check it out.. | 14:09 |
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| archebyte | I see 2.8.6.maemo11 in the App. Manager.. installing.. | 14:16 |
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| archebyte | is there any difference between using apt-get from the commnad-line and using the App. Manager for installilng a package? | 14:17 |
| qwerty12_N900 | 2.8.6.maemo11 is the crash-prone one... | 14:17 |
| archebyte | oh.. | 14:18 |
| kalikiana | archebyte, it's essentially the same, the difference is that apt lists libraries as well | 14:19 |
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| archebyte | I was wondering if the App. Manager made less use of the rootfs or something.. | 14:20 |
| archebyte | tks @kalikiana | 14:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | archebyte, the application manager caches to the eMMC by default. | 14:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | apt does not | 14:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | h-a-m's dependency/conflict resolution logic is also generally less aggressive. | 14:22 |
| archebyte | GeneralAntilles, how can I purge the cache using apt? | 14:22 |
| kalikiana | in the sense that ham simply aborts the install in the case of a problem =) | 14:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | apt-get clean | 14:23 |
| archebyte | cool. tks GeneralAntilles | 14:23 |
| archebyte | just installed 2.8.6-maemo10fremantle1 | 14:23 |
| archebyte | If all goes well, I will be back from the N900 :) | 14:26 |
| archebyte | tks all.. | 14:26 |
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| hrw|oedem | argontus: base difference is that with apt-get you can install few packages at same time. with Appmanager you cannot | 14:27 |
| hrw|oedem | I mean archetype | 14:28 |
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| archebyte | cool. happy to be on irc frm the 900 | 14:33 |
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| archebyte | the UI needs a Fremantle makeover :) | 14:34 |
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| * RST38h added Fremantle config dialog =) | 14:59 | |
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| hrw|oedem | I want conference support in internal IM - on maemo4 it was enough to do irc | 15:04 |
| yuizy | johnx: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/libalarm/ | 15:05 |
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| RST38h | hrw: Actually, there are more important things | 15:13 |
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| yuizy | there was no example so that's why it took a long time to make a basic alarm thing | 15:13 |
| RST38h | hrw: I want get-information support, i.e. when I am contacted by a previously unknown person I would like to request the details | 15:13 |
| RST38h | hrw: Also, the icq plugin has got the usual icq problem: it does not show details for a lot of accounts, just UINs | 15:14 |
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| hrw|oedem | sure | 15:15 |
| * hrw|oedem -> food | 15:15 | |
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| zigo-_-_--- | Hell, 4 KB/s to get stuff from scratchbox.org ... :/ | 15:23 |
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| lardman | "morning" | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | morn | 15:34 |
| lardman | hi Stskeeps | 15:35 |
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| lardman | any news on the pvr? | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | not that i've heard | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | annoys me a tad of course | 15:35 |
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| lardman | ah well | 15:37 |
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| Stskeeps | right now i'm working on GLES lib stubs | 15:37 |
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| lardman | oh cool :) | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | though i'm not sure it's the best way | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | we just need to have some way to build towards gles api so | 15:38 |
| lardman | yeah | 15:38 |
| * lardman is currently trying to Fremantle-ise mbarcode | 15:39 | |
| Stskeeps | pondering weak symbols | 15:39 |
| lardman | and at the same time adding in orientation stuff | 15:39 |
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| derf | "Orientation stuff"? | 15:42 |
| lardman | when you turn the device around the app has to turn around too | 15:42 |
| lardman | not the decoder :) | 15:42 |
| derf | Ah, I see. | 15:42 |
| kalikiana | accelerometer ;) | 15:42 |
| lardman | derf: btw it should build ok for diablo atm, though I'm not sure about the debian stuff I just pushed | 15:43 |
| lardman | I also rearranged the code | 15:43 |
| lardman | to push the mbarcode stuff into trunk and move the test codes into a branch | 15:43 |
| romaxa | greasemonkey extension available now for N900 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/greasemonkey-webaddon_0.8.20090920.2-2maemo1/ | 15:43 |
| derf | Okay. Alas, I have no time for testing today. | 15:43 |
| lardman | np | 15:43 |
| lardman | I'll test again for Diablo in the week | 15:44 |
| lardman | anyone taken a stab at emerillon hildonisation? | 15:44 |
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| konttori | romaxa: any recomended addons? | 15:45 |
| konttori | (for greasemonkey) | 15:45 |
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| romaxa | konttori: now idea, I was testing it on http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/48293 | 15:47 |
| kalikiana | I wonder... if I have a new libwebkit and libsoup, can they still get into extras, even if I'm not maintaining the existing packages? | 15:47 |
| romaxa | konttori: s/now/no/. | 15:48 |
| konttori | and the extension installation is smooth? | 15:49 |
| romaxa | konttori: click on install button, and it will ask to confirm script installation | 15:49 |
| konttori | great | 15:50 |
| romaxa | sp3000: ping | 15:50 |
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| konttori | so, now we need to check that do the youtube downloader scripts work | 15:51 |
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| romaxa | konttori: what is that? give me a link? | 15:52 |
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| sarower | how to use the front camera in SDK5, can anyone help? | 16:04 |
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| * zaheerm wrote a youtube player in 20 mins for n900 | 16:06 | |
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| zigo-_-_--- | 7.2. Copy the sources.list entry given to you after the license acceptance to your Scratchbox x86 and armel target’s /etc/apt/sources.list file. | 16:07 |
| zigo-_-_--- | Can someone give me the sources.list ??? | 16:07 |
| zigo-_-_--- | Seems I missed it ... | 16:07 |
| Stskeeps | no, accept the damn eula yourself | 16:07 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:07 |
| zigo-_-_--- | How? | 16:07 |
| Stskeeps | tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula i think | 16:07 |
| zigo-_-_--- | Oh... | 16:08 |
| zigo-_-_--- | Thank you. | 16:09 |
| lardman | hmm, when's our next update coming out, and anyone know if it'll be a reflash or an OTA? | 16:09 |
| Stskeeps | no idea | 16:09 |
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| lardman | np, was just idly wondering | 16:11 |
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| Stskeeps | ok, so my current idea is to have libGLESv2 and libEGL that are mostly empty, and headers having all symbols as weak symbols | 16:11 |
| Stskeeps | the idea is then that when real libGLESv2 and libEGL is there, it resolves the symbols correctly | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | does this make sense? :P | 16:12 |
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| lardman | why do you need to bother? | 16:15 |
| lardman | assuming you know the api | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: well. the challenge is that we can't use SGX libraries in a build farm obviously. we still need to build our applications, which uses gles2 api, which is publically documented | 16:18 |
| lardman | ah I see | 16:18 |
| Stskeeps | and we can then drop in the real gles2 libraries through whatever method | 16:18 |
| lardman | yep, I get you now | 16:18 |
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| * RST38h yawns | 16:25 | |
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| RST38h | qwerty, if you are there, thanks : your advice helped! | 16:26 |
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| zigo-_-_--- | [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > af-sb-init.sh start | 16:40 |
| zigo-_-_--- | bash: af-sb-init.sh: command not found | 16:40 |
| zigo-_-_--- | What the hell ... | 16:40 |
| mikhas | zigo-_-_---, installed the maemo-binaries? | 16:41 |
| mikhas | err, nokia-* | 16:41 |
| zigo-_-_--- | Do I need to install them twice? | 16:41 |
| zigo-_-_--- | I mean, once for ARM, once for X86? | 16:41 |
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| mikhas | yes | 16:41 |
| mikhas | of course | 16:41 |
| zigo-_-_--- | Ok, thanks. | 16:42 |
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| mikhas | both targets are individual environments | 16:42 |
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| mikhas | (think: two computers, if you will) | 16:42 |
| zigo-_-_--- | The doc on how to install doesn't even mention it ... | 16:42 |
| mikhas | to save time when you messed up it helps to make backups from /scratchbox/users/your_nick/targets | 16:43 |
| mikhas | though you should make *very* sure scratchbox is unmounted (/etc/init.d/scratchbox stop) and that there are no running sb terminals, before doing that | 16:44 |
| zigo-_-_--- | Ok. | 16:44 |
| mikhas | (if you have a good inet connection and dont mind the wait, you can ignore that part, of course) | 16:44 |
| zigo-_-_--- | Well, I run on an NX server in the data center... :) | 16:45 |
| zigo-_-_--- | Xen VPS... | 16:45 |
| mikhas | sounds good =) | 16:45 |
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| mikhas | actually, I am not sure how much you *really* need for cross compiling | 16:45 |
| mikhas | well, I jsut make sure I have roughly the same packages on both targets, saves thinking about it | 16:46 |
| wazd | According to "Objectified" if you haven't made a chair in your life - you're not a designer | 16:46 |
| Stskeeps | time to get started on that chair, wazd | 16:46 |
| mikhas | I made a chair in a school | 16:47 |
| mikhas | it was ugly | 16:47 |
| mikhas | but now I can finally call myself designer, thanks | 16:47 |
| wazd | I've watched 32 minutes, 2 minutes of Johnnie Ive, 30 minutes of chairs :D | 16:47 |
| * SpeedEvil has made a chair. | 16:47 | |
| wazd | oh, ok, and 2 minutes of Braun designer, that introduced Ive | 16:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - I cut a block of wood to suit as a chair. | 16:48 |
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| mikhas | hm, those count as chairs, too? | 16:50 |
| wazd | mikhas: sure | 16:51 |
| mikhas | I guess I am a great designer then, I made more than *one* chair! | 16:51 |
| wazd | mikhas: in fact you can look like a genius if you'll introduce something like this | 16:51 |
| mikhas | hm =) | 16:51 |
| SpeedEvil | mikhas: I curved the top. | 16:51 |
| SpeedEvil | mikhas: If you get arts prizes for piles of styrofoam, then it counts. | 16:51 |
| mikhas | SpeedEvil, neat. my grandpa used to have his garden full of wooden self-made furniture | 16:52 |
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| wazd | oh, ok, 5 minutes of car design, back to chairs :D | 16:56 |
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| mikhas | chair design > car design. everyone with a porsche chair can confirm that | 16:58 |
| RST38h | porsche chair probably provides more value for the money | 16:58 |
| wazd | seriously, chairs again! | 17:03 |
| mikhas | you still seem to underestimate the effort it takes to make chairs | 17:04 |
| mikhas | perhaps chairs is a primer in every designer book, or perhaps designers fail at anything more complex than a chair. | 17:06 |
| * mikhas looks around and spots so much borken design that he feels the latter is true | 17:07 | |
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| wazd | oh, UI design at last, no chairs here I hope | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | ergonomics? | 17:09 |
| wazd | well, "Objectified" is a movie bout different aspects of design | 17:10 |
| wazd | pretty interesting to watch but only 1 time I think | 17:10 |
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| wazd | I'm really surprised they haven't mentioned Sony's Jog Dial | 17:13 |
| wazd | cause it's a really life changing thing imo :) First appeared in VHS players now it's damn everywhere :) | 17:14 |
| wazd | even iPod's clickwheel is jog dial's interpretation | 17:14 |
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| RST38h | Too bad it is not used wider | 17:23 |
| RST38h | Probably copyrighted though | 17:23 |
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| zerojay | There was even a controller for PS1 that included a jog dial. | 17:26 |
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| zerojay | Namco's Jogcon: http://sites.google.com/site/neotechni/Home/playstation#TOC-Jogcon | 17:28 |
| mikhas | I would like to see the thinkpad's mouse knob on every laptop. I cant stand touchpads. | 17:31 |
| * greenfly is a trackpoint kinda guy | 17:32 | |
| greenfly | btw, is it pronounced May-mo, May-ee-mo, or May-uh-mo ? | 17:33 |
| SpeedEvil | It's pronounced cheesecake. | 17:36 |
| greenfly | ahh, naming after desserts now ala android? :) | 17:36 |
| baze | most people i heard from nokia on youtube pronounce it something like my-mo which always reminded me of a short version of "my mobile" ;) | 17:37 |
| * RST38h would like to see thinkpads gone, together with their knobs | 17:37 | |
| greenfly | ahhh see that makes sense | 17:37 |
| greenfly | aww, I love my thinkpad :) the x200s is nice | 17:37 |
| * RST38h pronounces it as ma-ye-mo, because this is how it is written =) | 17:38 | |
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| wazd | [Mei-mou] :) | 17:41 |
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| greenfly | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=287259&postcount=25 | 17:42 |
| greenfly | ^^ there's the definitive answer | 17:42 |
| RST38h | well no surprises there | 17:44 |
| * RST38h wonders if he shoul dbackport the settings dialog to the Diablo version of EMUlib | 17:45 | |
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| Stskeeps | jeremiah: ping | 17:48 |
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| wazd | ok, the main point of that movie is "Designers know what you need better than you" | 17:53 |
| RST38h | At least they all think so | 17:54 |
| wazd | I'm not :) | 17:54 |
| * qwerty12_N900 mutters something about an "UI Spec" | 17:55 | |
| wazd | you can't know anything bout the object if you don't use it everyday for 5 years | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N900: cdbs was your mortal enemy, right? | 17:56 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | Stskeeps: "was"? :) | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | is | 17:56 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Yessir | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | fair enough | 17:57 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Out of curiosity, how come you're asking? | 17:57 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: pong | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: how would you do multiple ./configure and build runs for variants of a package using CDBS? | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | let | 17:58 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: he killed him in a car accident I guess :D | 17:58 |
| jeremiah | Yieks. | 17:58 |
| jeremiah | or Yikes rather. | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | 's say i want libclutter-eglx-1.1, -2.0, libclutter-glx | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N900: ^ | 17:59 |
| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: Hehe, if only :D | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | which are made using different ./configure settings of backend | 17:59 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: I am not so good at CDBS, only because I never use it. :) | 17:59 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Stskeeps: No idea, sorry; that was a situation where I would scrap the CDBS rules entirely | 17:59 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: So would I. :( | 17:59 |
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| Stskeeps | fair enough | 18:00 |
| jeremiah | Sorry I'm no help keepsie. | 18:00 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Stskeeps: Perhaps look at the dates-hildon package, from Ubuntu | 18:02 |
| jeremiah | Wouldn't you just have a separate config script for each distro you are targeting? | 18:03 |
| jeremiah | And then it could be pretty straight forward. | 18:03 |
| lardman | anyone know which EContact field holds the location information? | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N900: hm, that seems simple | 18:03 |
| * Stskeeps passes qwerty12_N900 a cooki | 18:04 | |
| Stskeeps | e | 18:04 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | OM NOM NOM | 18:05 |
| lardman | :) | 18:05 |
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| tank-man | "First iPhone Worm Discovered, Rickrolls Jailbroken Phones" | 18:10 |
| tank-man | lmao | 18:11 |
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| Stskeeps | the onion or real? :P | 18:11 |
| tank-man | saw the headline on slashdot.org | 18:11 |
| lardman | argh, where is VCARD_FIELD_USERNAME coming from? | 18:12 |
| lardman | ah, I see | 18:12 |
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| lardman | anyone here used osso_abook_contact_get_value()? | 18:15 |
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| lardman | strange that it appears to only return a char * | 18:15 |
| lardman | when some values presumably, could be something else | 18:15 |
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| yuizy | where can i change the xterm color theme? | 18:21 |
| greenfly | should be in the main settings dropdown along with the font. etc. | 18:22 |
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| Stskeeps | jeremiah: cool that you're in over m.g.o :) | 18:33 |
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| Jaffa | cool, not been paying attn | 18:36 |
| jeremiah | cool, that things are . . . cool | 18:36 |
| jeremiah | :) | 18:37 |
| jeremiah | I need to spend more time at m.g.o | 18:37 |
| jeremiah | But I will try to do that | 18:37 |
| jeremiah | Right now trying to figure out why nokia mangles perl so badly. | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | scratchbox. | 18:38 |
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| Stskeeps | :P | 18:38 |
| jeremiah | Why do they have perl-base only on the device? | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | busybox and perl takes space | 18:38 |
| jeremiah | And then add perl and perl-modules in the sdk | 18:38 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: Ah | 18:38 |
| jeremiah | Okay | 18:38 |
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| Stskeeps | so it's like a minimal perl on device and full(.. yeah, right) in sdk for compilation | 18:39 |
| jeremiah | So I guess if I want to update perl, which I do, I may have/want to optify? | 18:39 |
| jeremiah | heh | 18:39 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: Good description. | 18:39 |
| Stskeeps | it's that embedded curse i keep on talking about | 18:39 |
| jeremiah | I am going to put that on my perl wiki page in maemoland. | 18:40 |
| jeremiah | THE CURSE OF EMBEDDED! | 18:40 |
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| pupnik_ | n900 battery life and power usage logged with running apps, shared to server to profile realworld use profiles... | 18:51 |
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| kami | hi | 18:53 |
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| b-man17 | kami: hello | 18:57 |
| Flyser_ | pupnik_: huh? Where can I find this data? | 19:00 |
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| _|Nix|_ | X-Fade: Do you know how come I can't promote my package from extras-devel to extras-testing? It's called double-acute-0.0.1 ... I was able to promote another package no problem, but when I try to click on version 0.0.1 of this package in the extras-devel armel repo, I get an error. | 19:19 |
| Corsac | hmmh, a local store has an add for n900 at 229€-150€ = 79€ | 19:20 |
| Corsac | though we don't know yet how long is the contract | 19:20 |
| Corsac | and nothing on the website yet | 19:21 |
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| dmj726 | n900 for 79 euro? | 19:23 |
| dmj726 | are you sure it's not a nokla? | 19:23 |
| w00t | probably with a very nasty contract if it's that much | 19:23 |
| w00t | (or just a long one) | 19:23 |
| Corsac | usually 24 months around here | 19:28 |
| Corsac | they can't do more anyway | 19:28 |
| Corsac | what's puzzles me is the simlock stuff for the first 6 months | 19:28 |
| Corsac | meaning no custom kernel | 19:28 |
| Corsac | but at 79€ vs. 560€, there's not much to balance | 19:28 |
| Corsac | (oh, that and azerty keyboard :/ ) | 19:29 |
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| dmj726 | I don't really mind the locks on a dumbphone | 19:39 |
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| Stskeeps | Corsac: i doubt there's simlock on n900 | 19:41 |
| dmj726 | that said, I don't really see much of a connection between smartphones and dumbphones other than the fact that they both make phone calls. | 19:41 |
| Corsac | dmj726: and smartphone usually are dumb at making phone calls | 19:41 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: in the fremantle security talks, they talk about that (not being able to boot unsigned kernel with a simlocked phone) | 19:42 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: so if the n900 can't be simlocked, that would mean no fremantle for n900 | 19:42 |
| Corsac | I guess | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | Corsac: -harmattan- | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:42 |
| dmj726 | I don't worry about how much control I have over the software in an electric typewriter either. | 19:42 |
| Corsac | uh oh | 19:42 |
| Corsac | sorry | 19:42 |
| Corsac | s/fremantle/harmattan/g | 19:42 |
| * dmj726 does not and never has owned an electric typewriter. | 19:43 | |
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| * RST38h feels that some people will be *very* happy with the upcoming versions of his emulators =) | 19:48 | |
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| qwerty12_N900 | You're including the ROMs with them?! :p | 19:49 |
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| zerojay | lol | 19:49 |
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| Corsac | hmh, the 150€ coupon seems to require an ovi account | 19:51 |
| RST38h | qwerty: No, but the button assignments and the accelerometer adjustment are there | 19:53 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Ah, nice | 19:54 |
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| ShadowJK | what is this about harmattan and simlock anyway | 20:02 |
| Corsac | ShadowJK: did you see the security talk about harmattan? | 20:02 |
| Corsac | http://wiki.maemo.org/MaemoSecurity has the slides | 20:03 |
| ShadowJK | nope | 20:03 |
| Corsac | http://www.slideshare.net/peterschneider/maemo-6-platform-security slide 5 | 20:03 |
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| ShadowJK | flash sure managed to lock up the device for 10 minutes just to show a picture quarterf the size of the screen.. | 20:23 |
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| konttori | Corsac: what about the security in harmattan? | 20:29 |
| * konttori knows a bit | 20:29 | |
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| sp3000 | romaxa: pong | 20:31 |
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| RST38h | konttori: can I make a little request? | 20:31 |
| konttori | sure | 20:31 |
| konttori | (by the way, I disc | 20:31 |
| RST38h | konttori: Will it be possible to add support for the second text to HildonCheckButton? | 20:32 |
| suihkulokki | all the expats in helsinki, note that the helsinki metro will not go the railwaystation-ruoholahti link for the next few days at least | 20:32 |
| konttori | (by the way, I disagree with sim locking meaning to demand signing - it should not) | 20:32 |
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| Corsac | konttori: we were wondering about simlocking | 20:32 |
| konttori | by second text, what do you mean? | 20:32 |
| Corsac | konttori: though I may have more specific questions about the security architecture (which I've put on the wiki page and talk thread) | 20:32 |
| konttori | Corsac: I definitely think that the author of that slideset has misunderstood something | 20:32 |
| courmisch | why would only expats care? | 20:32 |
| RST38h | konttori: HildonButton lets you specify the label and the value (written in small letters under the label) | 20:33 |
| Corsac | but basically we are waiting for Elena to publish some more info | 20:33 |
| RST38h | konttori: HildonCheckButton does not let you specify the second string | 20:33 |
| Corsac | konttori: hmhm but isn't she the security architect of harmattan? | 20:33 |
| RST38h | konttori: The last explanation from Nokia is here: http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg20576.html | 20:33 |
| konttori | Corsac: yes, but that doesn't mean she could not have misunderstood something or oversimplified something | 20:34 |
| suihkulokki | courmisch: well, finns tend to look more into finnish news so they probably already know | 20:34 |
| RST38h | konttori: you can easily see that the guy either isn't making much sense *or* he is considering very narrow usage for HildonCheckButton | 20:34 |
| konttori | RST38h: that does make sense. Please send an email with that link to me urho.konttori@nokia.com and if possible file an enhancement bug to bugzilla. | 20:34 |
| Corsac | konttori: if you have some time and are able to answer some questions about maemo security abilities, it'd be nice :) | 20:34 |
| courmisch | good I live in south-east Espoo | 20:34 |
| Moo___ | is there a community process to report issues or enhancements on hildon software (i.e. n900)? | 20:35 |
| konttori | Corsac: I can try, but I am 100% working in fremantle, so I am not completely updated on all harmattan goings | 20:36 |
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| Stskeeps | Moo___: hildon lib? most stuff is in bugs.maemo.org | 20:37 |
| lbt | Corsac: what questions? | 20:38 |
| courmisch | suihkulokki: fair enough | 20:38 |
| Moo___ | Stskeeps: ok... looking there | 20:38 |
| lbt | konttori: as far as simlock/signing goes - what is the problem there? | 20:38 |
| RST38h | konttori: Acknowledged. | 20:41 |
| Moo___ | hmmm.. another question. does ecoach have any other feedback channel besides the developer's personal email? | 20:42 |
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| Corsac | konttori: well, I'm interested in the trusted base and its availability for the end user | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | Moo___: check if it's in b.m.o :P | 20:43 |
| Corsac | konttori: I mean, can I use it with my own set of kernel/policy etc. | 20:43 |
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| Corsac | (so for example a business can roll its own set of kernels with the feature it needs, use trusted base in arm tree to protect the integrity of the system, and then protect data (files, contacts, calendars, mails etc.) | 20:44 |
| Corsac | and vpn keys, stuff like that | 20:44 |
| lbt | Corsac: AFAIK the actual 'trusted base' can't be used by community.... but that's a tiny subset | 20:44 |
| lbt | however... | 20:44 |
| lbt | all that stuff should be doable | 20:45 |
| Corsac | well, the point would be to be able to really trust it, or there is no point :) | 20:45 |
| lbt | you don't need tpm to do that | 20:45 |
| lbt | and the description of the acl controls sounded like they'd assist | 20:46 |
| Corsac | well, it sure help | 20:46 |
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| lbt | Corsac: would it? | 20:46 |
| Corsac | there's no way you can be sure of files integrity without help from the hardware :/ | 20:47 |
| lbt | for the NSA... maybe | 20:47 |
| Corsac | that's the point | 20:47 |
| Corsac | that's what I'm interested in :) | 20:47 |
| lbt | they could pay Nokia to sign a kernel | 20:47 |
| lbt | and I'm sure you could do that | 20:48 |
| Corsac | hmhm, but what would be the reason to forbid random user to use it? | 20:48 |
| Corsac | (the tpm I mean) | 20:49 |
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| lbt | my understanding is that there is a key held in the HW. That key can only be accessed at boot time by the bootloader | 20:49 |
| lbt | there's only (AFAIK) 1 key | 20:49 |
| lbt | if you have it you can break the DRM... the whole point of this is to manage that key | 20:50 |
| crashanddie_ | welll | 20:50 |
| crashanddie_ | that's where my company comes in :) | 20:50 |
| RST38h | konttori: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6086 | 20:50 |
| povbot | Bug 6086: Provide secondary text option for HildonCheckButton | 20:50 |
| lbt | I have no idea if there could be more keys (ARM question) and if Nokia would allow access | 20:51 |
| lbt | crashanddie_: ... | 20:51 |
| Corsac | well, I don't really know about Arm Tree, but on x86 world one is supposed to be able to take ownership of its TPM device | 20:51 |
| crashanddie_ | lbt, I did a presentation about Maemo last week to pitch it to my execs | 20:51 |
| lbt | crashanddie_: shareable? | 20:51 |
| Corsac | the fact that only nokia owns the only key for my device scares me a little | 20:51 |
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| crashanddie_ | lbt & Corsac: there may be an interesting solution, I have to talk to Elena first and see how Nokia welcomes the idea, but as soon as I have the green light I'll share | 20:52 |
| Corsac | I don't care about not being able to access DRM stuff (that's ok by me, I don't like drm but I would respect them) | 20:52 |
| RST38h | Corsac: As far as I know, none of the security infrastructure is implemented yet | 20:52 |
| crashanddie_ | and I've been in Open Source longer than I have in this company, trust me when I say I do want to share | 20:52 |
| Corsac | RST38h: ok | 20:52 |
| RST38h | Corsac: So things may change more than once | 20:52 |
| Corsac | crashanddie_: I'd definitely be interested | 20:52 |
| lbt | :) | 20:52 |
| Corsac | I really think there's a need for a trustable smartphone | 20:52 |
| lbt | crashanddie_: what's known about the ARM tpm stuff? | 20:52 |
| lbt | Corsac: one of my first thoughts is to put dmcrypt on it | 20:53 |
| Corsac | trustable for people with sensitive data | 20:53 |
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| Corsac | lbt: http://www.arm.com/products/security/trustzone/index.html | 20:53 |
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| Stskeeps | crashanddie_: i'd welcome passport on n900 | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:53 |
| Corsac | like, would president Obama be authorized to use a n900 instead of a crappy blackberry :) | 20:54 |
| crashanddie_ | Stskeeps, you bore me, I told you not to tell anyone | 20:54 |
| crashanddie_ | Corsac, unlikely | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | then i would only have to wear my n900 | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:54 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: with no clothes? | 20:54 |
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| crashanddie_ | what's the last thing you read? | 20:57 |
| crashanddie_ | **that came through | 20:57 |
| lbt | Corsac: unlikely | 20:57 |
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| crashanddie_ | [18:54] <crashanddie_> guys, I don't think you realise that at this point, the N900 has no market for business people | 20:57 |
| crashanddie_ | [18:55] <crashanddie_> no decent Exchange integration, email is still slow as hell (over imap)... The only thing that's usable is the contacts | 20:57 |
| crashanddie_ | and that's without taking into account any kind of security | 20:57 |
| RST38h | Isn't exchange working? | 20:58 |
| Corsac | crashanddie_: mpf | 20:58 |
| crashanddie_ | nha | 20:58 |
| Corsac | crashanddie_: will email see some love? :) | 20:58 |
| lbt | of course! | 20:58 |
| Corsac | or will we have to wait for the e900? | 20:58 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h, exchange only works for contacts and calendar, and fails miserably for email | 20:58 |
| Corsac | :) | 20:58 |
| RST38h | hmmmm | 20:59 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h, doesn't even tell you why, nor does it clearly say it failed | 20:59 |
| RST38h | Are you sure it doesn't just fail for you? | 20:59 |
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| crashanddie_ | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5335 | 21:00 |
| povbot | Bug 5335: Mail for Exchange Wizard doesn't show errors correctly | 21:00 |
| kamathln | hi.. is python installed by default on maemo5? | 21:00 |
| * RST38h facepalms | 21:00 | |
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| lbt | #5335 | 21:02 |
| crashanddie_ | Corsac, lbt what do you guys for a living? | 21:02 |
| lbt | I thought povbot had that... | 21:03 |
| * lbt used to be solutions architect @ BT | 21:03 | |
| crashanddie_ | ah, right | 21:03 |
| lbt | huge interest in this area | 21:04 |
| lbt | (Now contracting around Nokia/Maemo FWIW) | 21:04 |
| Corsac | crashanddie_: works in IT security | 21:04 |
| Corsac | -s | 21:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | bug #5335 | 21:04 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5335 Mail for Exchange Wizard doesn't show errors correctly | 21:04 |
| crashanddie_ | Corsac, way to be vague ;) | 21:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, same syntax as Bugzilla uses. ;) | 21:05 |
| crashanddie_ | bug #5335 #5337 #5339 | 21:05 |
| lbt | GA... way too verbose ;) | 21:05 |
| crashanddie_ | bug #3553, bug #1234 | 21:05 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3553 Weekly Summary report | 21:05 |
| * lbt tries.... | 21:05 | |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1234 close-buttons on home menu are too small | 21:05 |
| crashanddie_ | ooh | 21:05 |
| Corsac | crashanddie_: hmh, yeah | 21:05 |
| pupnik_ | Flyser_: do you think it could be done without security concerns? | 21:05 |
| lbt | Bug #5335 | 21:05 |
| lbt | <sigh> | 21:06 |
| kamathln | hi.. is python installed by default on maemo5? | 21:06 |
| Flyser_ | pupnik_: huh? what are you talking about? | 21:06 |
| crashanddie_ | kamathln, no | 21:06 |
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| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, o/ | 21:06 |
| pupnik_ | the power use reporting daemon idea | 21:06 |
| kamathln | crashanddie_: so there is no point in pursuing pymaemo for anything other than a hobby? | 21:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | What's the word, crashanddie_? | 21:06 |
| Flyser_ | pupnik_: well ... I see no reason why this should be a security conceirn. | 21:07 |
| crashanddie_ | kamathln, why would that be? | 21:07 |
| crashanddie_ | kamathln, Firefox isn't installed by default on Windows, should that prevent you from developing for it? | 21:08 |
| kamathln | crashanddie_: the users of phones like n900 would not be bent on installing a programming language by themselves | 21:08 |
| kamathln | firefox is a totally different question .. | 21:08 |
| lbt | kamathln: we have a thing called Depends: | 21:09 |
| pupnik_ | bug #5335 | 21:09 |
| kamathln | its something the end user would want on their pc/phone . so they might install | 21:09 |
| kamathln | lbt: Oh cool! | 21:09 |
| crashanddie_ | kamathln, you can make python a dependency of your app, and it will install automagically | 21:09 |
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| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, fucking jetlagged, that's the word | 21:10 |
| kamathln | crashanddie_: Oh! thats quite unthinkable on a phone :-P so my ramblings .. Sorry guys, keep up the good work | 21:10 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, went to bed at midnight, woke up around 4pm | 21:10 |
| lbt | kamathln: ??? | 21:10 |
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| crashanddie_ | kamathln, it's not a phone | 21:10 |
| crashanddie_ | kamathln, it's a mobile computer, which happens to also be able to place calls | 21:10 |
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| kamathln | crashanddie_: Yeah.. yeah.. convince the public ;-) | 21:11 |
| crashanddie_ | kamathln, you are the public | 21:11 |
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| kamathln | but I am in the minority .. who can understand | 21:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, fun. | 21:11 |
| crashanddie_ | no, you're in an arrogant subset of the minority who thinks they understand | 21:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just going East/West coast knocks me out. | 21:12 |
| Flyser_ | pupnik_: you were talking about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5594 right? | 21:12 |
| povbot | Bug 5594: Indicate charge level while charging | 21:12 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, i hear ya | 21:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Somebody should fudge with the LED indicator to get it to change hue based on charge level. | 21:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Between red and green. | 21:12 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, do you know of anyone here who lives in california? | 21:13 |
| kamathln | crashanddie_: lol .. well, I'll leave it up to you.. Now that I am happy that python+gtk or python+qt will work on maemo, I am seriously considering developing pygtk or pyqt apps | 21:13 |
| kamathln | thats all i wanted. | 21:13 |
| kamathln | thx | 21:13 |
| crashanddie_ | kamathln, take care | 21:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, a few. | 21:13 |
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| crashanddie_ | kamathln, I'm actually looking forward to PyQt as well (or Pyside) | 21:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Though I'm rather unable to name people offhand at the moment. | 21:13 |
| crashanddie_ | wanker | 21:13 |
| pupnik_ | no not the same bug Flyser_ | 21:13 |
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| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, I missed VDVsx by a few days, he was in MV as well, but I couldn't clear up my agenda and get a cold one | 21:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, you just wanted some more runes of power from the Scroll of the http://maemo.org Junta. | 21:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't lie. | 21:14 |
| crashanddie_ | actually, funny you should bring that up | 21:15 |
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| crashanddie_ | The Nokia office is like 2 miles from the set where they shot Face/Off | 21:16 |
| crashanddie_ | I could've taken VDVsx's identity and TAKE OVER THE MAEMO COMMUNITY | 21:16 |
| crashanddie_ | Mhuwhahahahahahahahahahahahaahaaaaaa | 21:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | You probably already have. | 21:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | You're just telling us this to make us think you didn't. | 21:17 |
| VDVsx | nah, I'm still alive ;) | 21:17 |
| crashanddie_ | Dude | 21:17 |
| crashanddie_ | you're way too good for me | 21:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sock puppet! | 21:17 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, how did you get this smart and when did you get so good at breaking conspiracies? | 21:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, I learned from the best in the business. | 21:18 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, did you train yourself by watching every single 24 episode in reverse? | 21:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | talk.maemo.org users. | 21:18 |
| * timeless heads to SFO | 21:18 | |
| GeneralAntilles | and sideways. | 21:18 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless, you were in SF? | 21:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Also while listening to Darkside of the Moon. | 21:18 |
| timeless | bay area | 21:18 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless, you plonker! I was there too! | 21:18 |
| timeless | mostly santa clara | 21:18 |
| timeless | i told people | 21:19 |
| crashanddie_ | not me you didn't | 21:19 |
| timeless | i told the whole channel! | 21:19 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless, did you ever do anything with the cards and readers we told ya? | 21:19 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless, been there for two weeks | 21:19 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270477415299 | 21:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol | 21:25 |
| crashanddie_ | btw, the first question I was asked when entering the US, I lied | 21:25 |
| crashanddie_ | the plane from heathrow to dallas didn't have any english immigration cards anymore | 21:25 |
| crashanddie_ | only japanese | 21:25 |
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| crashanddie_ | I had picked one up at the airport, hence, in English, but I had to take down some chick's phone number, so I couldn't really use it anymore | 21:26 |
| crashanddie_ | I asked for one in japanese, and used the initial one as a translation, and filled in the whole thing | 21:26 |
| crashanddie_ | gave it to the immigration officer, and his first question was "Oh, so you speak japanese fluently?" | 21:26 |
| crashanddie_ | "I certainly do" | 21:26 |
| timeless | i pulled it out on moday while talking about plugins @google | 21:27 |
| timeless | we're still adding pkki to our platform | 21:27 |
| timeless | sorry @sfo | 21:27 |
| crashanddie_ | no sweat | 21:28 |
| timeless | hoppimh off airtram | 21:28 |
| crashanddie_ | that airtrain is a joke | 21:29 |
| crashanddie_ | it's a bus | 21:29 |
| timeless | btw, the notifcation i get each time i log into w7 | 21:29 |
| crashanddie_ | which notification? | 21:29 |
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| timeless | that the reader isnt inserted is annoying | 21:29 |
| vladovg | hi | 21:29 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless, you can deactivate that | 21:30 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless, just go into activclient and it's one of the options | 21:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Clearly the problem here is Windows 7. ;) | 21:33 |
| crashanddie_ | more probably the problem are the shitty defaults of AC | 21:34 |
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| * GeneralAntilles wonders if Modest can send mail yet. | 21:34 | |
| timeless | sprry, headed to security | 21:35 |
| timeless | ill ask later | 21:35 |
| timeless | yeah, bad defaults | 21:36 |
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| * timeless kicks xterminal | 21:41 | |
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| * zaheerm wrote a simple youtube app in 25 mins | 22:10 | |
| zaheerm | for fremantle, with pygtk/gst-python | 22:10 |
| zaheerm | it just gets the top rated videos, displays them in a pannable list of buttons | 22:10 |
| zaheerm | selecting a button, plays it | 22:11 |
| zaheerm | will probably add search facility and a way to download the video then add it to extras-devel | 22:11 |
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| timeless | have you seen the google s60 youtube app? | 22:17 |
| lardman | hmm, if I do apt-get source libchamplain, I get 0.4.1-1 rather than 0.4.2; anyone know what I've done wrong? | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: saw that ari is torrenting too? | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2009/11/my-vision-of-maemo-at-least-part-of-it.html | 22:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: I won't ask how you're getting that, considering: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libc/libchamplain/ | 22:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: Interesting | 22:21 |
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| lardman | hmm, perhaps I need to apt-get update..... | 22:22 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Finally gave Transmission an update today | 22:22 |
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| timeless | qwerty: how's zenity? | 22:25 |
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| romaxa | sp3000: where is your ytv script? | 22:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless: Mmm... *whistles and walks away* | 22:27 |
| timeless | romaxa: did you provide a stack trace to that corruption? | 22:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I know, I'm a cunt | 22:27 |
| RST38h | Umgh | 22:27 |
| timeless | also, some sort of structure layout and the output of that getpointer call | 22:27 |
| RST38h | They translated "metropolitan police" as "police of the subway". FAIL. | 22:28 |
| sp3000 | romaxa: http://tt.home.dyndns.org/gm | 22:28 |
| timeless | fwiw, typically that bug belongs to mrbkap | 22:28 |
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| timeless | rst: they? | 22:28 |
| RST38h | hey romaxa | 22:29 |
| romaxa | RST38h: hey | 22:29 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Got CPU load under control? =) | 22:29 |
| sp3000 | romaxa: I'd expect with our provider it might need some sort of progress work using watchPosition to wait for the accuracy to improve | 22:29 |
| sp3000 | I was thinking something about 10m/s | 22:29 |
| qwerty12_N900 | RST38h: I hope so, but you may have to delete the settings first (some shitty limits set, and allocation settings changed) | 22:30 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | Waiting on a Dexter S04E07 torrent before I use it for anything serious myself | 22:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I really wish you could seek with the arrow keys in media player | 22:32 |
| RST38h | hehe | 22:33 |
| RST38h | General: +1 | 22:33 |
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| pupnik_ | yep | 22:36 |
| timeless | greedy! | 22:36 |
| timeless | but seriously, there are a bunch of basic plaes where the arrow keys don't work :( | 22:37 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | The browser's address bar being one of them. | 22:37 |
| timeless | no comment | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 22:38 |
| timeless | how about media player's track list view? | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's like Nokia takes basic expected computer functionality and systematically removes it until they reach "barely usable". | 22:38 |
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| timeless | or image viewer (grid or photo) | 22:39 |
| RST38h | This is called simplified user experience | 22:39 |
| RST38h | It is supposed to be a featute. | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, UX people with too much vision and not enough sense. | 22:39 |
| * RST38h laughs satanically | 22:39 | |
| timeless | too much vision? | 22:39 |
| timeless | nah | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it's not a bad goal when used sensibly. | 22:39 |
| timeless | the problem is that if the ui designer didn't mention it | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Look at KDE's settings for areas where you can go wrong with an unsimplified experience. | 22:40 |
| timeless | no one will, and anything not in the spedc can't be done | 22:40 |
| RST38h | General: The problem is that it seemingly has become a self-justifiable goal | 22:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, indeed. | 22:40 |
| timeless | the address book also doesn't support arrows :( | 22:40 |
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| timeless | yay for system widgets | 22:40 |
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| timeless | someone please replace them | 22:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | It wouldn't be so obnoxious if there were at least a chance of getting things improved. | 22:41 |
| RST38h | There is | 22:41 |
| lbt | dipshit vimeo | 22:41 |
| RST38h | You have to talk directly to people working on certain features. | 22:41 |
| timeless | no | 22:42 |
| RST38h | The Summit has shown that the actual developers are well aware of many problems reported by the community. | 22:42 |
| timeless | there ois, the widgets are open source | 22:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's that feeling of impotence that drives me to verbally assaulting most Nokians as soon as they open their mouths. ;) | 22:42 |
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| RST38h | But a lot of these weird "design decisions" are driven and enforced by UX people | 22:42 |
| crashanddie_ | just come into the office with a machete, put it calmly next to you on your desk, and then say "Listen guys, I think we need to go through some groundrules" | 22:42 |
| timeless | someone can fix it and provide a replacement package | 22:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, doesn't help normal people. | 22:43 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: You're impotent? | 22:43 |
| RST38h | he meant "important" =) | 22:43 |
| timeless | gan: well, someoine's going to fix ham to allow extras to suplant the nokia domain, no? | 22:43 |
| crashanddie_ | importance | 22:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, yeah, I hear you guys have a meeting on Thursday nights? | 22:43 |
| * qwerty12_N810 grins | 22:44 | |
| RST38h | that is four days to come up with a good introduction | 22:44 |
| timeless | we're boarding fwiw | 22:44 |
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| timeless | flight hop one is SFO to IAD | 22:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Have a good flight, timeless. | 22:44 |
| timeless | thanks | 22:44 |
| timeless | it's leg one of three | 22:45 |
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| crashanddie_ | timeless, AA? | 22:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fun. . . . | 22:45 |
| timeless | UA | 22:45 |
| crashanddie_ | cool | 22:45 |
| timeless | the other bits are LH (?) | 22:45 |
| crashanddie_ | go virgin | 22:45 |
| crashanddie_ | they're the best for transatlantic | 22:45 |
| sp3000 | ... | 22:46 |
| sp3000 | oh the airline | 22:46 |
| sp3000 | :P | 22:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 22:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | sp3000, Mind. Gutter. Out. | 22:46 |
| timeless | lol | 22:46 |
| crashanddie_ | a virgin wouldn't be the best way to spend 10 hours | 22:47 |
| sp3000 | don't forget to try the submarine subway whe you get back, http://www.hs.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1135250591036.jpeg | 22:47 |
| sp3000 | "oops". | 22:47 |
| crashanddie_ | that is, if you're not allowed to use a gag and ropes | 22:47 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Virgin Mobile is the best: Your phone says "Virgin" on its standby screen | 22:47 |
| crashanddie_ | qwerty12_N810, pretty nicely suited to you then :) | 22:47 |
| timeless | crash: esp an unrepetant/reluctant one? | 22:48 |
| timeless | s/pet/pent/ | 22:48 |
| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie_: I prefer http://i.imgur.com/x2h2Y.png | 22:48 |
| infobot | timeless meant: crash: esp an unrepentant/reluctant one? | 22:48 |
| * GeneralAntilles groans. | 22:49 | |
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| crashanddie_ | btw, the LX3 is awesome | 22:50 |
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| Franco | Hellow, I'm from Brazil | 22:50 |
| * tbf pats mikhas | 22:51 | |
| crashanddie_ | Franco, hi Antonio | 22:51 |
| timeless | qwerty: that img was so not worth my 2.5g bits | 22:51 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless: :p | 22:52 |
| gnuton | hi crashanddie_ ;D | 22:52 |
| * timeless spots a kindle | 22:53 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | "Can all the real Antonios please stand up?" | 22:53 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: or flight safety? | 22:53 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:53 |
| crashanddie_ | Franco, please don't PM for no reason | 22:53 |
| crashanddie_ | gnuton, ? | 22:53 |
| gnuton | crashanddie_: sorrty | 22:53 |
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| timeless | sts: we're still boarding | 22:53 |
| timeless | my seat is 7rows back | 22:54 |
| crashanddie_ | gnuton, ? | 22:54 |
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| gnuton | crashanddie_: sorry my real name is Antonio, then at beginning I thought that you were saying hello to me | 22:55 |
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| crashanddie_ | gnuton, ah, sorry ;) | 22:57 |
| crashanddie_ | Franco, please do not PM people for no reason, just talk in here, not in PM | 22:57 |
| gnuton | crashanddie_: nop ;D | 22:57 |
| gnuton | sp3000: what happened to rautatientori Metro station? I can't understand finnish | 22:58 |
| aSIMULAter | flooded | 22:59 |
| sp3000 | gnuton: http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/ | 22:59 |
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| aSIMULAter | 5 other stations were closed | 22:59 |
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| mmlj4 | I have a 770 with the 2008 hacker edition (I guess that's the latest one)... I want to skip the 64M swap limitation and use say 256M for swap on my card | 23:01 |
| mmlj4 | ideas? | 23:01 |
| pupnik_ | sure it is limited to 64? | 23:02 |
| qwerty12_N810 | mmlj4: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=17209 | 23:02 |
| mmlj4 | that's what the dropdown maxes out at | 23:02 |
| mmlj4 | ah, that's better | 23:02 |
| mmlj4 | thanks | 23:02 |
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| lbt | lcuk3: ping | 23:04 |
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| crashanddie_ | can anyone get me the opendns IP? | 23:06 |
| gnuton | 208.67.222.222 | 23:06 |
| gnuton | 208.67.220.220 | 23:06 |
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| crashanddie_ | thanks | 23:08 |
| gnuton | crashanddie_: ur welcome | 23:10 |
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| dreamer_ | does the default media player on the n900 support dbus control commands for transport control and search? | 23:11 |
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| GAN900 | All I want for Christmas is scrolling volume buttons in FBreader. | 23:12 |
| * GAN900 is tired of reading awkwardly with the keyboard half open. | 23:13 | |
| dreamer_ | in scratchbox when should I fakeroot make install, and when should I make install? | 23:16 |
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| n000b | has anyone here had access to a beta of flash 10.1 to see how much of a difference gpu acceleration will make? i played a bit with an n900 at a nokia shop yesterday (large grin) but must say that flash videos on any site other than youtube were too slow to watch... | 23:24 |
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| dreamer_ | anyone else run into issues trying to get firefox to run under xeypher on the x86 arch? | 23:27 |
| dreamer_ | mainly that they can't find how to open it | 23:27 |
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| dreamer_ | desktops are up, but the facebook widget doesn't actually launch facebook | 23:28 |
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| dreamer_ | and enter doesn't work in xterm | 23:28 |
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| davost | dreamer, yep. ender doesn't work but ctrl-enter does. weird... | 23:30 |
| crashanddie_ | dreamer_, You'll understand why the facebook widget doesn't launch facebook in a few weeks | 23:30 |
| dreamer_ | crashanddie: I don't care about if it launches facebook, I want to test the rendering of some javascript apps, but I can't actually get the brower to open | 23:31 |
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| johnxx | allo. anyone seen the HTML5 youtube viewer yet? | 23:33 |
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| frals | anyone figured out how to send sms through telepathy on the n900 yet? ;o | 23:35 |
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| zaheerm | timeless, yah i have it on my s60 phone | 23:43 |
| zaheerm | n000b, it should be quite a bit better | 23:43 |
| zaheerm | time for me to sleep | 23:43 |
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| dreamer_ | what line to I have to add to sources.list to enable the extras repository, I tried deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/extras free non-free, but I get a 404 from that | 23:45 |
| dreamer_ | in the sdk if it makes a difference | 23:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Go on http://repository.maemo.org/ and there's a nice there | 23:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | +list | 23:46 |
| mmlj4 | can you manually pull up that URL? | 23:46 |
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| sp3000 | oh how I loathe the normal maybe-it's-a-special-maybe-it's-not regexps | 23:46 |
| dreamer_ | I can't pull up http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/tools and its defined in sources.list already and pulls, so I assumed they weren't standard http, but no I can't pull either of them | 23:47 |
| johnxx | list seems to be missing the regular fremantle extras, but it's pretty easy to guess what the deb line is from the other ones there | 23:47 |
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| johnxx | yeah, they're just standard http | 23:47 |
| johnxx | (or ftp or file) | 23:48 |
| dreamer_ | thanks, I glazed over the location of extras, misformatted it | 23:48 |
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| archebyte | hey all | 23:48 |
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| dreamer_ | whats the browser's binary called on the n900, doesn't appear to be named firefox | 23:49 |
| qwerty12_N810 | The aptly-named "browser" | 23:50 |
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| dreamer_ | is it not installed on the sdk with nokia-binaries? I seem to be missing it | 23:51 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | nokia-apps needs to be installed, too | 23:51 |
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| dreamer_ | anyone with wiki editing priviges that could add info about that and accepting the gpg key to the sdk setup docs? :) | 23:51 |
| dreamer_ | it'll save alot of questions once the device is out | 23:52 |
| dreamer_ | ;) | 23:52 |
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