IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-10-26

code177	ooh	00:00
code177	that looks interesting	00:00
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code177	ooh python example	00:00
johnx	I will now be off-topic. this is a laser plotter: http://hackaday.com/2009/10/25/diy-plotter-with-laser/	00:01
fiferboy	fiferwife doesn't like the N900 ay the dinner table	00:01
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code177	hey also, on the plus side	00:01
code177	you just made me relook at ym threads	00:02
Stskeeps	time for a new wife	00:02
lbt	fiferboy: listen to fiferwife	00:02
johnx	fiferboy, get her one	00:02
code177	got that 15 seconds for landscapes & skies down to 3 seconds	00:02
lbt	gravy + n900 == sad fiferboy	00:02
fiferboy	:)	00:02
qwerty12_N810	fiferboy: Make sure you keep a close eye on it... You may find it in a garbage compactor, somewhere...	00:02
fiferboy	She could have my N810 if I was keeping this one	00:03
lcuk	i think fiferwife is just jealouse and doesnt want castoffs	00:03
code177	lol	00:03
lcuk	YOU can have the n810 and she will keep the n900	00:03
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lcuk	-e	00:04
fiferboy	probably	00:04
code177	anyhow.. so how should i handle 1-4 desktop wallpapers	00:04
* code177 stares		00:04
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Anwarboy11	equirectangular wallpapers	00:06
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fiferboy	Time to go rake some leaves	00:06
fiferboy	later all	00:06
Anwarboy11	any dev's here?	00:06
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lcuk	Anwarboy11, he said 1-4, theres 2 things he can do, either layout as required, or always show only the first with a subscript count of how many	00:07
lcuk	code177, the default wallpaper chooser shows a single icon	00:07
lcuk	and name	00:07
lcuk	no matter how many are in the pack	00:08
code177	ya	00:08
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code177	it would be nice to be able to show more than one wallpaper at once though	00:08
lcuk	yeah thats easy	00:08
lcuk	11	00:08
lcuk	11	00:08
code177	lol is it?	00:08
lcuk	12	00:08
lcuk	12	00:08
lcuk	12	00:08
lcuk	3	00:08
lcuk	12	00:08
code177	ya but it's not set up like that	00:08
lcuk	34	00:08
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code177	lol	00:09
liri	hey	00:09
code177	OK let's reframe this	00:09
code177	you have a window	00:09
code177	it has a toolbar with Info, Rate and Add/Save icons	00:09
code177	in between teh window and the title bar you have a blank space	00:09
liri	can't figure this thing out. I've completed a firmware upgrade from the updates, now it is not showing the bootloader screen and boots directly from the flash drive	00:09
code177	in this space, you need to show the wallpapers in that wallpaper pack	00:09
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code177	how do you show them? (visually, not codewise)	00:09
lcuk	^^^ that up there was visual	00:10
code177	that's a list	00:10
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lcuk	a 2x2 square	00:10
lcuk	this one shows a single icon:	00:10
lcuk	11	00:10
lcuk	11	00:10
lcuk	because thats all that is needed	00:10
lcuk	now, for 2, split the size in half	00:10
lcuk	12	00:10
lcuk	12	00:10
lcuk	etc..	00:11
lcuk	show as large as possible within the available space	00:11
code177	do you think it would be best to take the fullsize wallpaper and resize it down?	00:12
code177	if i did that, theoretically i could store it as a pixbuf and then use that for saving it, if they decide to keep it	00:12
code177	one less download	00:12
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lcuk	code177, if you are a front end for the n900wallpapers site	00:18
lcuk	and it already offers thumbnailed versions	00:18
lcuk	use them	00:18
code177	yeah those ones were too small, so i have it generate 200px wide ones now	00:19
lcuk	so.. workflow	00:19
lcuk	you connect to website	00:19
lcuk	ignore the thumbnails it offers	00:19
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code177	you know i'm the guy who made the site right?	00:20
lcuk	download the full high resolution pics of everything	00:20
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lcuk	thumb them down and let user select	00:20
lcuk	even if he wants 1/200	00:20
lcuk	code177, but you arent the guy using 3g data to download it	00:20
lcuk	really well done on the site btw	00:20
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code177	well that's why ium not making everyone download the fullsizes immediately lol	00:21
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lcuk	why cant you use the thumbs tho	00:21
lcuk	why are they right for the web	00:21
lcuk	and not for the app	00:21
code177	i am using the thumbs!	00:21
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lcuk	<code177> yeah those ones were too small, so i have it generate 200px wide ones now	00:21
code177	the ones on the site are 110px wide, the ones on the app are also from the site, 200px wid	00:21
lcuk	generate client side?	00:21
code177	yah	00:21
code177	but they're on the site	00:21
code177	they're server side	00:22
code177	they get generated on upload	00:22
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lcuk	reasonable enough	00:22
code177	actually speaking of the site	00:23
code177	im going to add a "rate" section soon	00:23
code177	which just randomly displayed wallpapers for rating	00:23
code177	that way more than just the recent ones will get rated properly	00:23
johnx	should it tend to show the ones with the lowest number of ratings first?	00:24
lcuk	just make a variant on the browser	00:24
code177	yeah	00:24
code177	that's what im thinking	00:24
lcuk	nahhh	00:24
johnx	I like it :)	00:24
lcuk	simpler	00:24
lcuk	http://www.motivatedphotos.com/home.aspx?src=redir	00:24
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lcuk	go spend 1/2 hour browsing	00:24
lcuk	you can rate or goonto 4 other random ones	00:24
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lcuk	those that like rating and tagging do so	00:25
lcuk	those that just browse also do	00:25
code177	n900wallpapers does some crazy traffic	00:25
* lcuk nods		00:25
code177	which i was totally not expecting	00:25
code177	i was figuring it'd get like maybe 500 pageviews a day, tops	00:25
range	And that for only 300 people >:)	00:25
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lcuk	yeah the infrastucture needs to be tight	00:26
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code177	since it went live it's done nearly 90,000 views	00:26
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lcuk	code177, dont blame it	00:28
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code177	well it surprised me for sure	00:28
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pupnik	could python be slimmed down from 15MB (diablo)	00:29
luke-jr	why bother	00:30
luke-jr	python sucks	00:30
pupnik	it yould suck less at 5MB	00:30
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pupnik	got a non-python youtube viewer for maemo luke-jr ?	00:32
lcuk	pupnik, luke-jr where is the breakeven point	00:32
lcuk	python download of -30mb ?	00:32
anidel	sorry I'm back.. emergency in the house (spider innocently attacking arachnophobic girlfriend)	00:32
code177	lol	00:32
lcuk	o_O anidel	00:32
lcuk	i had same	00:32
lcuk	she screamed and jumped	00:32
anidel	who's arachnophobic?	00:32
qwerty12_N810	pupnik: Digia@scene, but that brings in Qt which is more than Python's 15MB...	00:32
anidel	oh :)	00:32
lcuk	tracy	00:32
anidel	she's still shaking (my gf)	00:33
code177	aw	00:33
pupnik	heh qwerty12_N810	00:33
anidel	hi qwerty	00:33
lcuk	this ran along the arm of her chair	00:33
pupnik	both the beauty and the curse of linux	00:33
anidel	lcuk: gulp!	00:33
qwerty12_N810	Hiya, anidel, how are you?	00:33
lcuk	she swore	00:33
anidel	I'm fine thanks	00:33
lcuk	lots and loudly	00:33
anidel	yeah.. same	00:33
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lcuk	lol	00:34
lcuk	girls!	00:34
anidel	eheh well it's understandable.. hard to control a phobia	00:34
lcuk	was it a big spider?	00:34
anidel	quite	00:34
anidel	i've sealed the fireplace	00:34
anidel	we think it came from there	00:34
lcuk	heh	00:35
anidel	sharing the two "portrait" mode screenshots	00:35
lcuk	we once went on a sealant hunt around old house	00:35
anidel	eheheh I think I'll have to do the same tomorrow	00:36
lcuk	but its autumn	00:36
lcuk	when the males go looking for a mate	00:36
anidel	still too many around	00:36
anidel	ahhh	00:36
anidel	that's why	00:36
* lcuk nods		00:36
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GeneralAntilles	lol	00:37
GeneralAntilles	But the spiders keep out the other insects. :P	00:37
lcuk	http://www.uksafari.com/housespiders.htm	00:37
lcuk	these dont	00:37
anidel	they also keep my gf out	00:37
lcuk	they normally live out of the way	00:37
anidel	not good	00:37
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anidel	won't show that link to my gf for sure :)	00:38
anidel	http://anidel.posterous.com/screenshot-20091025-205615png	00:39
lcuk	lol	00:39
lcuk	i hide the monitor when she comes in sometimes	00:39
anidel	http://twitpic.com/my37n	00:39
lcuk	i tell her she can look	00:39
lcuk	but she shouldnt	00:39
anidel	eheh	00:39
anidel	like my portrait mode ? :)	00:40
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qwerty12_N810	Does switching desktop work properly? :p	00:40
anidel	damn didn't try	00:41
lcuk	o_O anidel that highlights another problem with rotation!!!!!	00:41
lcuk	the desktop background itself	00:41
anidel	:) I think it would	00:41
qwerty12_N810	:)	00:41
anidel	indeed	00:41
lcuk	that should zoom and rotate too	00:41
lcuk	and would panning occur up/down or side/side	00:41
* lcuk disabled panning		00:42
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anidel	i think the bg should not rotate	00:42
anidel	but you should specify a different one	00:43
anidel	so 4 screens, 8 bgs	00:43
code177	i'd be more inclined to say portrait should only have one bg	00:43
lcuk	it depends	00:43
lcuk	if its up/down	00:43
lcuk	it would be cool to have elevator view	00:43
anidel	in that case just flip it	00:43
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lcuk	i have to vanish anyway	00:44
anidel	but rotating a 800x480 to 480x800 it's bad :)	00:44
lcuk	scale	00:44
anidel	brr	00:44
pupnik	not quite fast enough to play new youtube fÃmt sometimes	00:44
anidel	lot's of dark bars	00:44
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lcuk	800480 to 1333800	00:44
anidel	wouldn't it look bad?	00:45
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lcuk	depends what your source image was	00:45
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lcuk	if it was higher res to begin with, no	00:45
lcuk	if it was lower res and grainy jpeg, yeah	00:45
anidel	yup..but often they're resized to 800x480	00:45
anidel	to save space and load fast	00:45
lcuk	i know	00:45
anidel	I think android does what you said	00:46
anidel	(if you enable desktop rotation in a mod0	00:46
anidel	)	00:46
anidel	btw	00:47
anidel	developer question	00:47
anidel	where should I look if I want to slidein a toolbar from a side?	00:47
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lcuk	i dunno	00:47
anidel	it's hidden, you do a gesture, it slides in...	00:47
lcuk	does it happen anywhere else	00:47
anidel	no I want to make it like that	00:48
anidel	clutter?	00:48
anidel	but it doesn't handle gtk widgets yet...	00:48
anidel	gtk animator, seems luggish	00:48
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anidel	HildonAnimator<Something>? no idea	00:48
lcuk	btw, these gesture things, wont people have problems with backported stuff	00:49
lcuk	cos they cant slide in over the bezel	00:49
anidel	it's not really a gesture.. it's what you do to bring in mouse mode in browser	00:49
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johnx	anidel, tear does that	00:49
johnx	not based on gesture, but keypress	00:50
anidel	also fennec I think...	00:50
anidel	have to look at the source code... hoped for a straight answer "look there"	00:50
anidel	:)	00:50
lcuk	i just click in top right	00:50
lcuk	and it does things	00:50
anidel	no, I want xournal to start fullscreen and nothing more than the journal itself	00:51
anidel	it starts with the toolbar shown, then it'll hide	00:51
anidel	so he knows it's there	00:51
lcuk	if hes looking	00:51
anidel	then either keypress or slide gesture	00:51
lcuk	and he knows how to bring it back afterwards	00:51
anidel	if not.. bad for him :)	00:51
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anidel	but I'll show a banner as well	00:52
anidel	first time	00:52
* lcuk nods		00:52
Flandry	sigh	00:52
lcuk	cant you just change the X location of the toolbar when the spot is hit	00:52
lcuk	or keypressed	00:52
pupnik	anybody have a workaround for youtubes too heavy for mplayer on n8x0?	00:52
anidel	yep.. but it's not fluid the movement	00:52
pupnik	maybe a fmt= string	00:52
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Flandry	has anyone had trouble with scratchbox segfaulting and then the sdl not working thereafter...?	00:53
anidel	I've got to take control of pixelpipe	00:54
lcuk	"take control" lol	00:54
pupnik	fmt=6 is the answer!	00:55
anidel	lcuk it's too damn powerful.. :)	00:55
anidel	simple yet powerful..	00:56
anidel	it's not enough to simply register your services	00:56
anidel	you've got to control them ;)	00:56
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lcuk	heh you dont want auto uploaded photos	00:57
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anidel	I want to control where to show them :)	00:57
anidel	last time I've uploaded several pictures.. and it tweeted two links for each picture!	00:58
* lcuk nods		00:58
anidel	once for twitpic and one for pi.pe	00:58
anidel	brrr	00:58
anidel	:)	00:58
lcuk	it was me that told you lol	00:58
Flandry	would someone please paste somewhere the errors that SDK runs when starting it up?	00:58
anidel	right!	00:58
Flandry	*throws	00:58
lcuk	:D	00:58
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lcuk	hi javispedro	00:59
javispedro	hello	00:59
lcuk	Flandry, mm?	00:59
Flandry	my app was working fine until scratchbox segfaulted. Now, i get an error that there is no SDL video device	00:59
Flandry	so i'm trying to figure out where the problem is	00:59
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javispedro	scratchbox segfaulting?	01:00
Flandry	yeah it was weird	01:00
javispedro	which scratchbox binary?	01:00
lcuk	reboot desktop?	01:00
Flandry	the shell got all flaky	01:00
Flandry	and then it segfaulted and the shell closed	01:00
javispedro	the shell segfaulted I guess	01:00
javispedro	so, did you remember to export DISPLAY in the new shell?	01:00
Flandry	it said segfault in scratchbox	01:01
luke-jr	pupnik: I have a BASH script	01:01
Flandry	the shell went down latre	01:01
Flandry	i have since then rebooted	01:01
Flandry	trying to get it to work	01:01
javispedro	and is Xephyr and the hildon GUI working?	01:01
Flandry	yeah	01:01
Flandry	i can start and it boots up	01:02
Flandry	but my app finds no SDL video device	01:02
Flandry	it worked ok before	01:02
Firebird	ugh, really freaking hard to color scheme a program when the SDK colors are all messed up :/	01:02
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javispedro	well, "scratchbox" can't segfault since well, there are multiple scratchbox binaries and none of them is running when the shell is at the command prompt.	01:03
Flandry	anyway if someone could paste the output of sdk when starting it	01:03
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pupnik	flandry - for youtube-dl? sure it is not python?	01:03
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Flandry	i want to see if one of the numerous warnings/errors is actually not normal	01:03
lcuk	lpastebin them	01:03
javispedro	is the GUI up and you can click on the menu items and launch apps? then everything is fine.	01:04
javispedro	(and the apps appear, and are composited.)	01:04
Flandry	the apps haven't appeared actually	01:05
Flandry	only have App manager and Settings	01:05
javispedro	I guess you're missing "Nokia-apps" package	01:05
Flandry	it says it's up to date	01:05
Flandry	sigh	01:06
Flandry	time for a third reinstall i guess	01:06
javispedro	Firebird: btw, I am trying on yet another approach for accelerated fremantle sdk: VMGL. Did you try it? I haven't managed to make it work yet (it seems to be designed with ancient xorg versions in mind)	01:07
javispedro	and I am having lots of weeeeeeeird issues with the X11 protocol.	01:07
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Firebird	javispedro, gave up and decided to not work with fast moving games until I get a device somewhere 2 years down the road	01:08
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javispedro	understandable.	01:08
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Flandry	http://pastebin.com/d3d87cad7	01:15
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Flandry	are the HAL-related errors supposed to be there?	01:15
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Flandry	this one: mafw-gst-renderer	01:16
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lcuk	o_O what are stopwords	01:17
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lcuk	and why does sdk need them	01:17
timeless_mbp	stopwords limit indexing	01:17
timeless_mbp	it prevents the indexer from going nuts	01:17
timeless_mbp	at least, classically	01:18
lcuk	ok, the blacklist	01:18
timeless_mbp	one has to assume the people writing tracker aren't crazy enough to misuse that technical term	01:18
timeless_mbp	or is that an unsafe assumption?	01:18
javispedro	well, they're using ontologies, so who knows ;)	01:18
timeless_mbp	javispedro++	01:18
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lcuk	it looks liek your hal isnt being configures	01:20
lcuk	d	01:20
lcuk	like	01:20
Flandry	"Could not initialize the HAL context, no error, is hald running?"	01:21
javispedro	I am getting the hal errors too.	01:21
Flandry	ya think	01:21
Flandry	haha	01:21
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javispedro	Flandry: well, other than reinstalling SDK, clearing /tmp folder comes to mind	01:22
javispedro	another interesting thing to pastebin would be an strace of your sdl app	01:23
javispedro	but I have to go now.	01:23
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Flandry	the scratchbox / sdk install takes hours	01:24
Flandry	and hundreds of MB of downloads	01:24
Flandry	it's ridiculous	01:24
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javispedro	well, you're downloading an operating systme.	01:24
Flandry	i know	01:25
javispedro	well, gnite	01:25
Flandry	bye	01:25
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Flandry	ha	01:28
Flandry	now i get a different error	01:28
Flandry	with no changes to anything	01:28
Flandry	/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set	01:28
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`Mace	i want an n900!	01:29
`Mace	damnit	01:29
timeless_mbp	as long as you don't want it now :)	01:29
Flandry	it's just as well i don't have one	01:29
Flandry	i'd have broken it by now	01:29
Flandry	i seem to be able to break anything	01:29
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uhsf	i also want a nokia n900 since my media player was stolen yesterday	01:30
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uhsf	i wish it will be easily available here in canada.	01:30
Flandry	Is there a way to preserve the contents of scratchbox while removing and reinstalling it?	01:31
Suurorca	well, if you have the same 1 year warranty with u.s., you might as well order an eu version ;p	01:31
timeless_mbp	Flandry: scratchbox is really two or three pieces	01:32
timeless_mbp	i'd hope that remove wouldn't destroy your bits	01:32
qwerty12_N810	Flandry: You can look at the home directory used in it, at least: /scratchbox/users/$USER/home/$USER	01:32
zerojay	uhsf: Rogers only just now starting carrying in the N810... and at $500.	01:34
timeless_mbp	lol	01:34
Flandry	i mean the OS stuff	01:34
Suurorca	:D	01:34
Flandry	i'm on my third time installing this and it's really getting old	01:34
timeless_mbp	cache the sdk server :)	01:34
qwerty12_N810	zerojay: I'm surprised no one has started a "Lynch Rogers" movement :)	01:35
zerojay	qwerty12_N810: http://www.rogers.com/web/link/wirelessBuyFlow?forwardTo=AccessoryOnly&N=4294967106+11+4294953167	01:35
zerojay	No kidding.	01:35
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anidel	hey 0j, back home?	01:37
qwerty12_N810	Ha, I see it... I'm guessing the N900 dilemma will be "Hmm, new house or N900?"	01:37
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Firebird	a $650 house? where!	01:37
Flandry	well i've about had it with Maemo i guess	01:37
Firebird	must be the best cardboard box on the street	01:38
uhsf	zerojay: why would rogers carry the n810? it's not even a phone.	01:38
zerojay	uhsf: Ask them. Take a look at the link I pasted to qwerty12_N810 if you don't believe me.	01:38
timeless_mbp	some vendors carried the n800/n810 because they paired it w/ dsl	01:38
timeless_mbp	it actually kinda made sense	01:38
Flandry	i have what i think is a working package ready to be tested on N900	01:38
zerojay	Flandry: You should just grab the VM version of the SDK.	01:39
Flandry	i guess i'll upload it and reinstall sdk if it doesn't work	01:39
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lilliput_	hi all	01:39
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Flandry	seems silly to install an OS in an OS in an OS just to developt for a phone :D	01:40
lilliput_	have some of you participated to the nokia push ?	01:40
zerojay	Flandry: With the way you are supposedly destroying the OS, no. :)	01:40
zerojay	Flandry: Anyways, just make a copy of the VM. Fuck it up? Just copy the original over again. No more fucking around with long installs.	01:41
Flandry	it seems awfully fragile	01:41
Flandry	i know	01:41
timeless_mbp	vm's aren't very fragile	01:41
timeless_mbp	especially w/ snapshotting	01:41
Flandry	i'm talking sdk	01:41
Flandry	in scratchbox	01:41
Flandry	vms aren't, true	01:41
lilliput_	Flandry, vm	01:41
zerojay	Flandry: I don't know how the SDK is fragile... makes me think you're doing something wrong.	01:41
timeless_mbp	scratchbox is basically a live os w/o root protections	01:42
lilliput_	Flandry, vm	01:42
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timeless_mbp	but it's such a limited os that you basically have to poke it to add things	01:42
pupnik	maemo / mer would make a great sofa tablet os	01:42
zerojay	pupnik: It already does.	01:42
lilliput_	Flandry, vms are better to devel as you don't mess around with the lib and everything else	01:42
pupnik	on smartq?	01:42
zerojay	On N900.	01:42
pupnik	k, that is a phone, not a sofa tablet for me	01:43
Flandry	yeah yeah it just seems excessive to have that many layers of OS	01:43
Flandry	but i'll do the VM	01:43
zerojay	pupnik: That's just a limitation in your own mind.	01:43
pupnik	sofa tablet starts at 5" or so	01:43
johnx	I keep thinking about mer on e-ink devices	01:43
anidel	pupnik so why I'm using my n900 on the sofa now ? :P	01:43
Flandry	has someone made a vbox image available zerojay?	01:44
pupnik	¬ou can read small text	01:44
zerojay	Flandry: Yes.	01:44
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timeless_mbp	personally i use Mer to develop for Maemo	01:46
timeless_mbp	it usually works	01:46
timeless_mbp	until i get to stupid things like shellisms and pythonisms	01:47
timeless_mbp	(like the total lack of python or a proper shell, or various debian essentials)	01:47
lilliput_	speaking of vm is there one ready to be used for qemu ?	01:48
lilliput_	I have seen the one for vpc but not for qemu	01:49
zerojay	qemu's slooooooow.	01:49
lilliput_	vpc doesn't run on linux or is it ?	01:50
Flandry	is the vmware image compatible with virtual box?	01:50
johnx	a vmdk can be trivially converted to a virtualbox or qemu disk image	01:51
Flandry	man i break into cold sweats when someone says "trivial" ever since i took quantum mechanics	01:51
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GeneralAntilles	Texrat and his damn top-posting HTML mails. . . .	02:12
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zash	GeneralAntilles: gah	02:15
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* johnx really needs mbx drivers so he can see how the free h-i-m fs keyboard works in mer 0.17		02:20
* anidel like this article: http://devwhy.blogspot.com/2009/10/loss-of-zfs.html		02:21
Stskeeps	johnx, didnt you get my n8x0 image with sw render?	02:23
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johnx	yeah	02:23
johnx	it's kind of too slow to work with	02:23
johnx	also, I thought you were asleep by now :)	02:24
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Stskeeps	screwed timezone	02:24
johnx	ah. just waiting for mine to get screwed	02:25
Stskeeps	pondering if we missed mbx driver release or something	02:25
johnx	we'd see it on the linux-omap list, right?	02:25
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Stskeeps	not sure	02:25
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GeneralAntilles	Haha, "But you have to concede Sun does have the last letter in filesystems."	02:34
johnx	I'm mostly excited about btrfs	02:35
derf	Yes, but z comes after btr.	02:35
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johnx	depends on your sorting algorithm, doesn't it?	02:36
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solarion	GeneralAntilles: clearly, if Linux doesn't get ZZZFS, it'll never get any marketshare	02:45
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ccooke	Evening, all	02:49
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Flandry	hi	02:51
b-man17	http://www.cracked.com/photoshop_90_the-world-tomorrow-if-internet-disappeared-today/ - absolutely hilarious xD	02:52
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Flandry	interesting article on file systems	03:02
ccooke	johnx: Evening. How's it going?	03:02
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lcuk	Flandry, the cracked onw?	03:06
lcuk	hi ccooke	03:06
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Flandry	the blogspot one	03:06
Flandry	well mostly the last bit	03:06
Flandry	i don't really care what apple does	03:06
johnx	hey ccooke	03:07
johnx	played with your script a little bit	03:07
ccooke	I saw	03:07
johnx	I think it might have some side-effects related to python gtk	03:07
ccooke	Oh yes?	03:08
ccooke	I haven't tried relocating that yet	03:08
ccooke	I'm glad I stuck the undo in, anyway ;-)	03:08
johnx	if you get a chance might be good to give it a try and see if python things can still find the python gtk module after that	03:08
johnx	yes, the undo seems to have brought it back to working	03:08
johnx	now I'm trying to figure out if appinstaller is buggy or if I relocated other python packages	03:09
ccooke	nod	03:09
johnx	is there a good way to just have it print relocated things?	03:09
ccooke	ls -l /opt/relocated :-)	03:09
johnx	ah, thanks :)	03:09
ccooke	that'll get you the package names	03:09
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johnx	fantastic	03:10
johnx	it really does seem like nokia is the biggest offender for not opt-ifying though	03:10
ccooke	There's a lot of polish that could be added, but... I don't think it's a good idea to add it. The reason I stuck all those caveats on the post is it could break things...	03:11
lcuk	isnt that because the core components were in place before opt was even a twinkle in someones eye	03:11
ccooke	lcuk: yes	03:11
lcuk	and retesting and validating the entire subsystem would be a massive undertaking	03:11
johnx	there are some real high value targets that should be easy to test	03:12
ccooke	flashplayer and microb are obvious, for instance	03:12
johnx	looking at themes, icons, fonts as well	03:12
ccooke	yeah. I've moved my themes over.	03:13
lcuk	yeah - the big fish	03:13
ccooke	Of course, you don't gain back all the space the package takes up - all those symlinks end up taking some space.	03:13
ccooke	But it's worth it right now.	03:13
johnx	mmmm...and really digging the hitech theme. I'd love a total conversion of the icons too, and a couple different color variations	03:13
johnx	ccooke, yeah, like 4KB per file?	03:14
johnx	does a handy job on QT :)	03:14
ccooke	johnx: not sure. Depends on the FS.	03:14
ccooke	it's ubifs, right?	03:14
lcuk	deffo better to sym an entire folder than each file within	03:14
ccooke	I'm not sure how big a symlink is on that.	03:14
ccooke	lcuk: yeah, but doing that safely is much harder. That's where optifying wins: You can make sure it's right.	03:15
lcuk	i thought once you symlinked it was indistinguishable, tho thats just my limited knowledge	03:15
ccooke	lcuk: hardlinks are indistinguishable	03:16
lcuk	or is it things like timing problems (early packages requiring the folder before the mountpoints created	03:16
lcuk	ahh	03:16
ccooke	symlinks are mostly indistinguishable	03:16
ccooke	in a hard link, it's literally impossible to tell	03:17
lcuk	cool	03:17
ccooke	if you just open the file, you're fine	03:18
Firebird	what the heck... "libboost-iostreams1.38-dev: Depends: libboost-regex1.38-dev (= 1.38.0-6maemo2) but it is not going to be installed"	03:19
ccooke	the usual problem with symlinks is code that does things like "loop through filenames in directory foo. Look for ones which are normal files, then do stuff" (because they want files, not directories: the test should usually be that it isn't whatever you don't want to process)	03:19
lcuk	Firebird, dependency issue, check your repositories are sane	03:19
Firebird	lcuk, that was from the autobuilder	03:20
Firebird	armel fails, but i386 is building	03:21
Firebird	http://maemo.org/packages/view/libboost-regex1.38-dev	03:21
johnx	du is lying to me :(	03:21
lcuk	arghhh ccooke we are taught as developers to explicitely request what we need	03:21
lcuk	so no nasty surprises occur	03:21
johnx	I don't think that symlinks take 0 blocks on ubifs	03:21
johnx	though it'd be a neat trick	03:21
lcuk	magic trick	03:21
Firebird	now that half of the package failed, how do I re-upload it without being rejected for being an existing version...	03:22
ccooke	johnx: nor do I, but they do on some filesystems :-)	03:22
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johnx	ccooke, FAT? :P	03:22
ccooke	johnx: yes, a bit, but I'm losing it. Slowly.	03:23
* johnx plays a rimshot		03:23
ccooke	Sorry :-)	03:23
lcuk	lol ccooke you being converted to ntfs? :D	03:23
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ccooke	lcuk: ah, see - I was taught to carefully state what I wanted. In this case, what I'd want is to not recurse :-)	03:24
ccooke	lcuk: nah, umsdos.	03:24
ccooke	(shudder)	03:24
lcuk	lol	03:24
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* Stskeeps ponders mailing the ti guy		03:28
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johnx	...a cake?	03:28
GeneralAntilles	A threat!	03:28
luke-jr	lol	03:29
johnx	a cake with a threat written on it?	03:29
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Firebird	eek, I have uncovered a dependency mess in the armel repo for fremantle relating to boost->libicu :(	03:30
Firebird	"libboost-regex1.38-dev: Depends: libicu-dev"..."libicu-dev: Depends: libicu42 (= 4.2.1-3maemo1) but 4.2.1-3maemo3 is to be installed"	03:30
johnx	I love these awesome "=" dependencies Nokia is so fond of...	03:32
ccooke	johnx: there's a reason for it. It's a bad one, but...	03:32
johnx	yeah	03:33
johnx	I remember the discussion from a year or so back	03:33
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pupnik	bugrep Firebird ?	03:34
Firebird	pupnik, going to PM the maintainer	03:34
GeneralAntilles	johnx, hopefully they eventually manage to figure that out. . . .	03:35
pupnik	Pandora linux gaming handheld - arm A8 cortex - running Nintendo 64 emulator - mario - with opengl es 2.0 rendering - video from device lcd > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_EXdG5x7j0	03:35
johnx	I also don't remember being very convinced by the reasoning	03:35
johnx	ooooh, did they get the sgx working with it?	03:35
GeneralAntilles	johnx, pretty much anything Nokia does that's stupid or inane can be explained by their broken process.	03:35
pupnik	yes	03:35
GeneralAntilles	pupnik, I love the fact that we can steal all of this stuff from them.	03:36
johnx	GeneralAntilles, or by decisions that favor software in peoples' hands over software that is technically correct	03:36
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pupnik	in real world use however expect n900 to be 1/2-2/3 as fast as 850mhz pandora	03:37
GeneralAntilles	Ah, right, overclocked.	03:37
GeneralAntilles	Hooray, brick.	03:37
derf	Absolutely no one has good process.	03:37
derf	If you're relying on good process to develop good software, you're screwed.	03:37
pupnik	a good tesm	03:38
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, i thought different grades of chips were available for arm as for any other cpu	03:38
pupnik	teams load balance	03:38
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, er?	03:38
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, one of those grades isn't 850MHz. :)	03:38
johnx	and all are 720MHz, given proper cooling	03:39
johnx	maybe not all :)	03:39
lcuk	ok	03:39
johnx	at least the pandora's	03:39
lcuk	where did i read about 1ghz ones then	03:39
pupnik	the kind of emergent dance seen on a soccerfield or real world development cant be planned in advance	03:39
lcuk	or was i dozin	03:39
johnx	lcuk, they were saying they could hit 1GHz I think at some point	03:40
johnx	not sure if there are any of those chips in reality	03:40
* lcuk nods		03:40
lcuk	i need to sleep rly tonight	03:40
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, OMAP3430 is rated for 600MHz. OMAP3530 has recently been upped to 720MHz.	03:40
lcuk	thanks gan	03:40
lcuk	600mhz max	03:41
pupnik	sleep well	03:41
lcuk	and not all the time	03:41
lcuk	according to summit	03:41
pupnik	we should find any recorded microphone audio from summit talks... that can be merged with video footage of ours	03:42
pupnik	i have good footage of lectures (nice zoom for projected images!)	03:42
pupnik	a couple at least	03:43
lcuk	it would be great to have a complete timeline and allow people to upload any media/observation/notes directly into proper sequence	03:43
lcuk	as discussed for the cocreation stuff	03:43
pupnik	wiki page does	03:43
pupnik	can link any talk to vid	03:44
lcuk	yeah but automagically	03:44
pupnik	heh	03:44
lcuk	tweaks have timestamps so do photos etc	03:44
lcuk	video does too, just work backwards	03:44
lcuk	sketch notes do	03:44
pupnik	didnt we see folks with real cameras? who were they?	03:45
lcuk	the audience	03:45
lcuk	lol there were 300 realtime sensor devices	03:45
lcuk	we were like the little sensors they sent into the hurricane in twister!	03:45
GAN900	pupnik, apparently the people who were PAID to record everything screwed up the audio.	03:46
GAN900	So it was all useless.	03:46
pupnik	that sucks	03:46
lcuk	GAN900, official confirmation about this?	03:46
lcuk	or just speculation due to lack of facts/	03:46
GAN900	lcuk, there's a thread on some list or other.	03:47
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lcuk	lol GAN900 i could say theres threads on some list or other describing the landing of aliens, that doesnt make it fact. but you have ear to ground so will let you off for now :P	03:50
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pupnik	i know i havent seen a link to recordings besides user submitted video	03:52
GAN900	lcuk, yes, because I'm so inclined to make shit up.	03:54
johnx	if I hadn't been told right at the beginning that professionals were covering it, I probably would have had my n900 going constantly the whole time :/	03:54
pupnik	oo, a spot-microphone would be a great addon	03:58
johnx	could do stereo with one attached to usb and on attached to line in :>	03:59
pupnik	wnot to mention pro dac/adc boxes	03:59
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* Stskeeps wonders if mbx drivers will be behind email auth too.		04:00
lcuk	johnx, wouldv been cool with just super multidevice recording	04:01
pupnik	well, do we have usb-audio kernel drivers?	04:01
johnx	should be easy to compile as a module	04:01
johnx	anyways, heading off to watch TV with the wife :)	04:03
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pupnik	cheers johnx	04:05
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luke-jr	Stskeeps: will be? you didn't install them yet?	04:22
Stskeeps	not out yet	04:23
luke-jr	I have it working with KDE 4.3...	04:23
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Stskeeps	mbx? :P	04:24
pupnik	++?	04:25
luke-jr	Stskeeps: N810	04:25
luke-jr	whatever that is	04:25
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solarion	n810 is awesome	04:48
lcuk	+1	04:49
GeneralAntilles	N900 is better.	04:50
GeneralAntilles	The keyboard is so much better it's silly.	04:50
lcuk	of course its better GeneralAntilles, its newer and faster. but the 810 kicks serious ass	04:50
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* GeneralAntilles prefers the N800.		04:51
lcuk	do you still keep yours powered up>?	04:52
lcuk	if so, what do you leave running on it?	04:52
GeneralAntilles	XChat, FBReader	04:53
GeneralAntilles	Browser when I need it.	04:53
lcuk	i saw a posting before someone saying they have flipclock all day at work	04:54
lcuk	i like how these old devices havent just died - like 770 still serves useful purpose to some people	04:54
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zash	lcuk: nokia-made stuff from a few years ago holds forever	04:57
zash	lcuk: like my 3310	04:58
lcuk	isnt that the same even now	04:58
lcuk	the 900 is gonna be a rock solid platform	04:58
pupnik	does n900 detect opened rear lid?	05:00
pupnik	in other words, can i boot with it off?	05:00
zash	pupnik: define lid?	05:00
ali1234	it does detect it	05:00
pupnik	the battery cover	05:00
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pupnik	acha	05:00
ali1234	cos of the camera slide	05:00
ali1234	it has two positions	05:00
ali1234	if it's in neither, battery case is off :)	05:01
pupnik	ty	05:01
ali1234	at least i assume that's how it works	05:01
ali1234	it definitely detects it anyway	05:01
lcuk	cool	05:01
pupnik	magnets are cool	05:01
ali1234	actually it uses two pieces of plastic, one black, one white	05:01
ali1234	for the slide anyway	05:02
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pupnik	ahh clever	05:11
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pupnik	so apparently neon optimization can pay off	06:00
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timeless_mbp	ping	07:11
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Macer	omfg hahahaha	07:12
Macer	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbG9i1oGPA&feature=related	07:13
Macer	holy shit what people do	07:13
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tank-man	I waiting till the bulldozer transforms into a giant robot	07:19
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timeless_mbp	anyone here have an n900 w/ mail configured?	07:22
Macer	tank-man: hahah i was too	07:22
Macer	but it didn't happen :)	07:23
Macer	what a let down	07:23
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timeless_mbp	anyone here familiar w/ ham?	07:32
* timeless_mbp wants to know how ai_ni_updates_restart works		07:32
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* tigert wonders why his N900 thinks he is in Riihimäki		07:45
Xisdibik	your not tigert ?	07:48
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RST38h	tigert: failed associating with the tower and establishing gps lock?	08:03
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* slonopotamus yawns		08:08
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* VDVsx puzzles		08:14
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tigert	gps thinks correct	08:37
tigert	i think presence got stuck with location	08:38
tigert	Xisdibik: ?	08:38
Xisdibik	i was joking, asking if you really werent Riihimaki	08:39
Xisdibik	;)	08:39
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tigert	heh	08:44
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wazd	heya maemo	09:59
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VDVsx	hey wazd	10:07
L0cutus_	re	10:08
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RST38h	HELO all	10:44
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RST38h	Anyone can point me to the TI page with OMAP3 documentation?	10:44
VDVsx	RST38h, google can :P	10:45
* VDVsx hides		10:45
qwerty12_N810	VDVsx: <-- brainwashed by Google, now that he has been to Google HQ	10:46
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VDVsx	I meant google the search engine :)	10:46
VDVsx	lol	10:46
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VDVsx	qwerty12_N810, I still prefer Nokia :). Google offered me lots of food and t-shirts, but I didn't get any android device :(, so Nokia still rullzzz :P	10:50
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qwerty12_N810	Hehe :p	10:51
samad	is there any API that i can detect the device is sleep mode or dead mode ?	10:52
Xisdibik	would said android device be as good as the n900 anyways? ;)	10:52
samad	i am working with n900	10:52
Xisdibik	that was for VDVsx not you samad	10:52
Xisdibik	;)	10:52
* qwerty12_N810 is rolling out his own network: http://i.imgur.com/bPY8R.png		10:53
VDVsx	Xisdibik, not for me, but I like to have tons of gadgets :)	10:54
mgedmin	inline bool is_device_powered_off() { return false; }	10:54
VDVsx	qwerty12_N810, lol, skynet by evil qwerty :P	10:54
qwerty12_N810	muhahaha	10:54
* Xisdibik starts stockpiling guns and stuff for when they attack		10:55
Xisdibik	hey qwerty12_N810 not that you would know but, Would doing an alternative ubuntu install and then selecting the ubuntu desktop be any less resource consuming / space hogging than doing a live CD install ?	10:56
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qwerty12_N810	Xisdibik: You're right: I don't know, sorry (Xubuntu in VMware here) :)	10:57
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Xisdibik	if anyone else thinks they know the answer they can pipe in ;)	10:57
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mgedmin	Xisdibik: maybe, maybe not	11:01
Xisdibik	what would you put your money on mgedmin ?	11:01
mgedmin	most likely you'd end up with the same set of packages	11:01
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Xisdibik	thats what i figured	11:01
mgedmin	but if you installed smaller bits instead of ubuntu-desktop, you'd end up with a smaller system	11:01
mgedmin	that'd mean more work	11:01
Xisdibik	yeah	11:02
mgedmin	but then installing only what you need is easier than removing what you don't	11:02
Xisdibik	yea, unless i dont know exactly everything i need?!	11:03
Xisdibik	but do know what i dont (within reason)? ;)	11:03
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* VDVsx is looking forward to pass another 15 hours inside a plane :(		11:05
achipa_irssi	anyone	11:05
achipa_irssi	whoops	11:05
achipa_irssi	anyone with alarmd install problems on scratchbox ?	11:06
achipa_irssi	I tried od apt-get install nokia binaries and ran into a nice permission denied in alarmd :)	11:06
qwerty12_N810	Tried with "fakeroot" prefixed?	11:07
achipa_irssi	VDVsx: long trip for a bit of food and tshirts :D	11:07
VDVsx	achipa_irssi, and booze ;)	11:08
qwerty12_N810	achipa_irssi: This is the last part of the trip: They're gonna indoctrinate him in Google Thought. When he comes back, he's gonna be an Android supporter and shun Maemo	11:08
achipa_irssi	I are baboon, fakeroot it is	11:09
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achipa_irssi	VDVsx: booze makes all the difference :D	11:10
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engineer	hello all	11:11
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engineer	anyone used nokia2630?	11:11
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engineer	i am having a small issue related to its themes?	11:11
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engineer	can anyone help?	11:11
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mgedmin	bug: launch an app (say, xterm), see the app's picture (really just a screenshot, but you don't know that!), start typing -> contacts search pops up	11:12
mgedmin	what's the right package for reporting this?	11:12
mgedmin	hildon-desktop?	11:12
VDVsx	qwerty12_N810, beware, I had a advanced trolling techniques session :) if I join the dark side, I can now be a good troll asset :)	11:12
qwerty12_N810	VDVsx: I'll just get lcuk to kick you	11:13
VDVsx	qwerty12_N810, puffff	11:13
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sulx	anyone tried to build mythtv for frema?	11:14
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VDVsx	qwerty12_N810, but now I can say that our trolls are pretty 'basic', we never had advanced trolls afair :P	11:15
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qwerty12_N810	VDVsx: Darius doesn't fit into the category of "advanced"? :)	11:16
VDVsx	qwerty12_N810, nah	11:16
qwerty12_N810	Ooh	11:16
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VDVsx	qwerty12_N810, there're trolls that submit false bug reports full of fake straces, to make them appear legitimate, lolol (normally people from rivals projects)	11:23
Suurorca	how mature :p	11:26
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glass	well at least that would show some effort :D	11:27
* VDVsx likes some 'types' of trooling -> http://picasaweb.google.com/cschlaeger/JapanLinuxSymposium#5395358413061926434		11:29
VDVsx	hihi	11:29
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_berto_	http://forum.zwame.pt/showthread.php?p=5410179	11:31
Corsac	mpf, now 560¤ ><	11:31
wazd	VDVsx: how's the BM going? :)	11:31
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VDVsx	wazd, waiting for my lazy designer to send me some stuff, hihihihihi	11:32
wazd	VDVsx: oh, you should punish him definitely :D	11:33
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VDVsx	wazd, I'm abroad atm, but I'm planning to have a test version this week :)	11:34
VDVsx	is almost done apart from the UI :)	11:35
wazd	VDVsx: I'll send you all graphics today	11:38
* timeless makes a little progress		11:38
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VDVsx	wazd, not a rush I'll only arrive at home on Tuesday and will be jet lagged , so Wednesday is the day :)	11:40
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timeless	arg, i hate busses	11:43
timeless	i just took a ride to nowhere, espoo, finland	11:44
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anidel	morning	12:01
qwerty12_N810	Hiya, anidel	12:01
anidel	hey qwerty..	12:01
Suurorca	morn	12:01
anidel	today I'll be switching from BT broadband to Virgin	12:02
anidel	:) finally I'll get rid of the BT modem	12:02
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vesa	perhaps a silly question: is it possible to send a file from the filemanager via bluetooth?	12:04
* SpeedEvil sighs, and ponders going on again about his broadband problems.		12:04
vesa	i might be blind but i just couldn't figure out where there's an option to do that	12:05
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SpeedEvil	Can you right-click on the touchscreen?	12:05
vesa	hmm, not that i'm aware of. maybe there's some key-combo	12:05
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vesa	a long click gives you a menu of options, but it doesn't have send	12:07
qwerty12_N810	vesa: N900?	12:07
vesa	aye	12:07
vesa	the image viewer has 'share' which works, but for regular files (like say downloaded sis package that i'd like to send to my wifes phone)	12:08
qwerty12_N810	In that case, there's a bug open for that. Nokia, in their infinite wisdom (I mean, no one sends a file from their phone, right?) decided to remove the option from the file manager	12:08
vesa	oh...	12:08
vesa	ok, well. i'll stop looking then =)	12:08
SpeedEvil	Because clearly nokia is right, and you diddn't really want to :)	12:09
anidel	vesa yeah you send the file from its right application	12:09
anidel	send a picture from Photos	12:09
anidel	send a video from Media Player	12:09
anidel	and so on.. not sure from where you can send a PDF tho	12:09
vesa	yeah. there's no application for symbian packages though =)	12:09
vesa	downloading them is much easier on a proper browser	12:09
anidel	not from PDF viewer.. weird	12:10
anidel	so yeah.. it's definitely a bug :)	12:10
qwerty12_N810	Diablo's PDF Viewer has the option... :)	12:10
anidel	not on n900, just checked	12:10
qwerty12_N810	Yeah, same :/	12:11
tekojo	Yes, it's a bug, please open one, if it isn't in the bugzilla yet	12:11
vesa	maybe the final version will have it...	12:11
anidel	hi Tero, didn't know you were here on IRC as well	12:12
tekojo	Hi anidel, I mostly lurk, but I do try to hang around as much as I can	12:12
anidel	yeah I'm trying to do the same.. working from home today -> more time :p	12:13
* Myrtti gives tekojo a cookie		12:13
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anidel	bug 5300 looks like it: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5300	12:14
anidel	filed as enhancement..	12:14
tekojo	Thanks Myrtti!	12:14
samad	is there any API that i can detect the device (n900)is sleep mode or dead mode ?	12:15
tekojo	yes #5300 it is	12:15
qwerty12_N810	samad: Read up on the libosso API. And, no, just so that we get it out of the way now: I will not give a step by step as to how you use it	12:16
anidel	voted	12:16
anidel	vesa: would you please vote on it as well if you feel it's worth it?	12:16
vesa	ofcourse. will do.	12:17
samad	qwerty12_N810: thanks	12:17
anidel	vesa: thanks	12:17
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anidel	(will 'thanks' on IRC counted for Karma? :D :D	12:18
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vesa	another thing that's been bugging me is the profiles. is there really only silent/general or is there a way to add profiles?	12:26
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Khertan	Hello everyone !	12:27
RST38h	moo all	12:29
RST38h	heya khertan, , myrtti, qwerty	12:29
RST38h	tekojo too	12:29
qwerty12_N810	vesa: AFAIK, you can add a new one to /etc/profiled/99.custom.ini, but you will have to make a program using libprofile (nokia-binaries repo) to switch to it, as the GUI wont list it	12:29
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qwerty12_N810	Hiya RST38h, Khertan, tekojo	12:30
tekojo	morning RST38h	12:30
tekojo	And everyone else :-)	12:30
vesa	qwerty12_N810: ah, ok. i might try it but the ui not listing the profile does cut down on how useful a new profile really is	12:30
qwerty12_N810	nods	12:31
* qwerty12_N810 remembers his 3310 having more profiles =)		12:31
tekojo	vesa really only two profiles, takes a bit of getting used to, but does work	12:32
Khertan	Hi RST38h and qwerty12_N810	12:32
vesa	all i'm really missing is a profile that's only vibrate (leaving silent to not even vibrate)	12:32
wazd	On december 2012 an asteroid, that was heading to the Earth appeared in the sky. And	12:33
mgedmin	there are checkboxes	12:33
mgedmin	useful	12:33
Myrtti	moo RST38h	12:33
Corsac	qwerty12_N810: is there a bug report about that?	12:33
wazd	damn	12:34
Khertan	wazd: but in december 2012 we will got a Nokia n1800 with a integrated Energy Shield	12:34
qwerty12_N810	Corsac: The profiles? I don't think so	12:34
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Khertan	wazd: so it s not a problem	12:34
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Corsac	qwerty12_N810: would it make sense to open a bug while I don't even had a chance to test it? I can wait for it to open the bug, but...	12:35
timeless	fwiw the reason why you can't share from most apps in fremantle is very funny	12:36
qwerty12_N810	Corsac: I don't see why not, I guess it's all about the usability factor	12:36
timeless	or incredibly sad, depending on how one looks at it	12:36
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wazd	On december 2012 an asteroid, that was heading to the Earth appeared in the sky. And it struck the Earth right where Mayan calendar was placed. And there was dust. When the dust dispersed a new stone calendar was standing. And there was a message on it "Here's the new stone calendar till 32118 year you've asked. Thanks for using our stone calendars!"	12:41
Stskeeps	wazd: hah	12:41
Corsac	mpf, I don't yet have a bugzilla account	12:43
Corsac	that's weird	12:43
Corsac	hmhm, talk and bugzilla aren't linked, are they?	12:43
zerojay	linked for what?	12:44
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RST38h	wazd: Not 32118. 32767.	12:44
timeless	no signle sign on, yet, sadly	12:44
RST38h	(and yes, I also find it amusing that the aliens use signed shorts)	12:45
wazd	RST38h: damn, now I have to order new one :(	12:45
* RST38h wonders if the alien MIPS goes into exception when the incremen 32767 by 1		12:45
SpeedEvil	Of course not.	12:46
SpeedEvil	19683	12:46
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Corsac	zerojay: for accoutns	12:47
timeless	corsac: someday	12:48
Corsac	ok	12:48
timeless	it's on someone's wishlist/toplan list	12:48
Corsac	(so it wasn't a bad idea to create an account)	12:48
timeless	do everyone a favor and make sure the accounts share an email address :)	12:49
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wazd	ok, ordered the new one :)	12:49
Corsac	timeless: yes :)	12:49
Corsac	qwerty12_N810: Maemo Platform / Desktop Platform?	12:49
qwerty12_N810	Dunno, I've only filed a total of 3 bugs so I'm not the person to ask	12:50
Corsac	ok :)	12:51
zerojay	Corsac: I still don't understand.	12:51
timeless	what's the bug?	12:51
zerojay	Corsac: Why would you need Bugzilla and Talk specifically linked?	12:51
anidel	qwerty that's why you didn't get a Fixed in Fremantle t-shirt :p	12:51
timeless	lack of send object from various apps?	12:51
timeless	zerojay: unified auth	12:52
timeless	one username, one password	12:52
zerojay	timeless: Oh, if that's what he's talking about... but why just those two?	12:52
timeless	instead of wiki/garage?	12:52
anidel	which bug? bluetooth sending?	12:52
* timeless shrugs		12:52
Suurorca	wouldn't it be about time to start saying "fixed in harmattan" ;p	12:52
qwerty12_N810	anidel: Now I'm just gonna go and cry :(	12:52
anidel	eheh me too	12:53
timeless	suurorca: internally, we're waiting for harmattan to start fixing bugs	12:53
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* anidel goes and cries		12:53
Corsac	zerojay: well, talk, garage, everything!	12:54
RST38h	wazd: When ordering it, can you put Texas as your mailing address?	12:54
RST38h	wazd: And I will order an extra copy to Redmond	12:54
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Corsac	timeless: the fact that there are only two profiles and one can't do custom ones	12:54
timeless	oh	12:54
timeless	not technically correct	12:54
timeless	the backend supports it	12:54
timeless	and the ui spec says to only allow two	12:55
timeless	presumably it's a bug in settings, enhancement for harmattan	12:55
timeless	dunno what they plan for that	12:55
timeless	maybe they plan to support more	12:56
anidel	timeless which bug is that?	12:56
timeless	maybe not	12:56
ccooke	Morning, all	12:56
anidel	morning ccooke	12:56
qwerty12_N810	Hiya, ccooke	12:56
timeless	personally, i'd suggest writing an applet today that manages profiles	12:56
anidel	ah profiles	12:56
timeless	and ignoring the default one	12:56
qwerty12_N810	anidel: I want my Fixed in Harmattan T-shirt, now	12:56
Corsac	I didn't yet submit it so I can reclassify it :)	12:57
Khertan	Just a question does the icon to do selection in XTerm in Fremantle is a GTK_STOCK ? come from theme ?	12:57
* anidel sends a faked Fixed in Hamrattan t-shirt to Qwerty now... along with a bug in it		12:57
qwerty12_N810	Khertan: Theme icon, want me to look it up?	12:57
qwerty12_N810	Aww, thanks anidel!	12:57
anidel	:)	12:57
wazd	Fixed in Harmaten	12:58
Khertan	qwerty12_N810: hum ... if it s a theme icon it should be available in gtk stock right ? as i can't found it in python binding ...	12:58
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RST38h	Anyone remembers the URL with TI documentation on OMAP3?	12:59
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qwerty12_N810	Khertan: You want browser_panning_mode_on.png; use the GtkIconTheme functions to get to it	13:00
k-s	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5794	13:00
Khertan	qwerty12_N810: yep this is for a panning_mode_on too :) thx	13:00
anidel	rst38h: sorry :p http://tinyurl.com/yft2oaj	13:01
liri	are we gonna have a kicking ass PIM with (google) sync support when the n900 is out?	13:01
RST38h	anidel: thanks =)~	13:02
Corsac	liri: direct sync looks more interesting	13:02
liri	what is direct sync?	13:03
anidel	rst38h ahaha sorry it's just that I love to use it :p	13:03
RST38h	anidel: or, I stand corrected: no thanks, as there is no useful information in that google search	13:03
RST38h	(I have done it before)	13:03
anidel	damn.. -1 karma then	13:03
anidel	(for me)	13:03
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anidel	btw google searches are just starting points .. however, I do not have that info.. I remember seeing it somewhere... couldn't remember where	13:04
Corsac	liri: like, not supplying all your data to a third party	13:04
Corsac	liri: and do a direct sync between your devices	13:04
anidel	we should write a "let me find/file that bug for you" page	13:04
SpeedEvil	You don't have to supply all your data to a third party - even if they deal with it. Encryption.	13:05
Corsac	SpeedEvil: do you know a sync engine which does that?	13:05
Corsac	RST38h: is http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap3530.html helpful?	13:06
Khertan	Does Nokia plan to do sync with google agenda for there calendar on Fremantle ?	13:06
RST38h	Corsac: This is it! Thanks =)	13:06
* Corsac karma++		13:07
timeless_mbp	Khertan: nokia -- plan ?	13:07
Khertan	:)	13:07
SpeedEvil	Corsac: firefox weave - but that's not quite the same	13:07
SpeedEvil	Or do I mean wave	13:07
Khertan	yep ... just to know if i lost some time to make a apply which do the sync ... or not	13:07
* SpeedEvil gets confused easily.		13:07
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Corsac	SpeedEvil: as I get it, for the sync to work correctly, both party need to know the content	13:08
SpeedEvil	yeah - weave	13:08
SpeedEvil	Corsac: Sure. But not the server	13:08
SpeedEvil	Corsac: only the end parties	13:08
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SpeedEvil	that is - the synchronising devices	13:09
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Corsac	but you sync with the server, don't you?	13:09
Corsac	atm, at least	13:09
SpeedEvil	Imagine - for the sake of argument - implementing it with an encrypted filesystem stored on the server	13:09
pancake_	how can I get hildon working on a desktop?	13:09
anidel	speedevil: weave encrypts the data? I thought it does only for sending it... does they store it encrypted? not sure.. they need to search out of it to make money	13:09
pancake_	the source from git doesnt builds	13:09
zash	is it correct that maemo uses evolution-data-server as backend for stuff? Does that mean one can sync by just rsyncing ~/.evolution ?	13:09
SpeedEvil	you mount the filesystem with your local key, and never send the key to the server.	13:09
SpeedEvil	anidel: firefox, not google	13:09
ccooke	zash: Not safely, I'd expect.	13:09
anidel	speedevil: TCFS :D was doing that :p	13:09
Corsac	SpeedEvil: yes but I'm not sure any engine does that atm	13:10
anidel	speedevil: yeah.. I mean firefox's encrypting the data on the channel.. but google is not storing it encrypted	13:10
zash	if not, how's syncing with evo otherwise?	13:10
SpeedEvil	anidel: nothing to do with google	13:10
SpeedEvil	anidel: google weave is seperate to firefox wave	13:10
SpeedEvil	anidel: err firefox wave and google weave	13:10
* SpeedEvil sighs		13:10
anidel	wait	13:11
zash	firefox wave?	13:11
anidel	i'm confused :)	13:11
SpeedEvil	firefox weave and google wave have nothing to do with each other.	13:11
anidel	firefox weave and google wave	13:11
anidel	yes	13:11
Corsac	anidel: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/10868	13:11
anidel	so you confused me as well.. i meant	13:11
anidel	firefox wave encrypts data on the channel	13:11
anidel	but does firefox store it encrypted?	13:11
SpeedEvil	firefox weave syncs all your browser details - history, bookmarks, .... - over multiple devices with the synchronising server not knowing the data - if it's encrypted	13:11
SpeedEvil	I think the default is to do encryption. It's not stored locally encrypted	13:12
anidel	corsac : thanks I know it and using it :) was confused with google weave.. /me hits speedevil :p	13:12
zash	anidel: "cloud" based?	13:12
zash	anyone tried fennec on n*	13:13
anidel	Firefox wave uses cloud yeah.. that means the data is stored on some server	13:13
zash	anidel: what if i want to use my own server?	13:13
anidel	no idea.. I don't know if Wave lets you do that	13:13
anidel	I think so..	13:13
SpeedEvil	Firefox weave - you can have your own server - or use theirs.	13:13
SpeedEvil	and the data is by default (I think - it may be an option) encrypted	13:14
Corsac	I tried fennec on the touchbook and it just sucks	13:14
anidel	Weave	13:14
anidel	speedevil: uhm... yeah they should	13:14
anidel	hopefully	13:14
SpeedEvil	Well - you can compile your own server, and host it somewhere if it worries you.	13:15
Jaffa	Morning, all	13:15
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Jaffa	crashanddie: pong	13:15
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qwerty12_N810	Morning, Jaffa	13:15
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Shapeshifter	mhh. If the palm pre has a facebook app, will it be called "facepalm"?	13:16
ccooke	It will now.	13:16
zash	Shapeshifter: lol	13:16
anidel	morning Jaffa	13:16
Corsac	SpeedEvil: that's the purpose of funambol servers etc.	13:17
Corsac	SpeedEvil: but doing that is just awful (it involves tomcat etc.)	13:17
Khertan	there is no binding for nokia calendar in python ?	13:17
zash	Corsac: ff weave server needs tomcat?	13:18
SpeedEvil	no	13:18
SpeedEvil	ff weave is only ff	13:18
Khertan	evolution-python	13:18
Khertan	<<<	13:18
Khertan	found	13:18
SpeedEvil	it doesn't synchronise your email or anytehing else. Just FF	13:18
Corsac	zash: no, funambol server is a syncML server	13:19
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Jaffa	Khertan: python-evolution is in extras-testing. But I don't think I packaged it with ecal turned on due to a compile problem in the earlier SDK release	13:21
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Khertan	Jaffa: :( sniff	13:22
Khertan	Jaffa: so i ll wait :)	13:22
Jaffa	Khertan: Recipe is in MUD, sopatches welcome ;-)	13:22
Khertan	héhé :)	13:22
* Jaffa isn't at an SDK machine until Friday, so a perfect chance to get started with MUD ;-)		13:22
Jaffa	[for you]	13:22
* Khertan didn't have any scratchbox running ;)		13:23
* Khertan didn't hope to compile anything onboard on a n900 :)		13:23
mgedmin	my bug is already filed, good thing I did a search: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5745	13:23
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timeless_mbp	hello world	13:25
ccooke	mgedmin: although it might be filed against the wrong package. Isn't the problem with the terminal, not contacts?	13:25
timeless_mbp	could someone please sacrifice 5-10 mins of their life for me?	13:25
timeless_mbp	payment is that you could decide to file this bug instead of me	13:25
mgedmin	definitely not terminal, ccooke	13:25
mgedmin	it's the "show fake screenshot on app launch until app comes up" thing falling through	13:25
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: oh wow, bug 5745 happens to be incredibly annoying	13:25
timeless_mbp	i hit it an awful lot w/ xterm	13:26
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mgedmin	have you ever tried, e.g. launching app manager and tapping on one of the icons immediately?	13:26
zerojay	andre__: The data counters being reset when the phone gets super busy has not been fixed after all. trying to watch ustream (which doesn't work, but keeps the phone busy for long periods of time) killed it for me twice this weekend.	13:26
mgedmin	the app manager screen disappears and you end up looking at the task switcher	13:26
timeless_mbp	i've had desktop batch events for 10+ mins	13:26
mgedmin	then the app manager really starts up	13:26
timeless_mbp	and then later it dispatches them	13:26
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: yeah, i've hit that	13:26
mgedmin	now if instead of tapping you start typing, you get bug 5745	13:26
andre__	zerojay, feel free to comment on the bug report and mention the version that you use	13:27
timeless_mbp	so... who wants a free bug?	13:27
andre__	zerojay, i don't have all numbers in my head :)	13:27
timeless_mbp	it only costs 10 mins to file	13:27
zerojay	andre__: I don't think it was a bug that was made public.	13:27
timeless_mbp	(And a certain amount of sanity)	13:27
andre__	ah, okay	13:27
andre__	let me see	13:27
zerojay	timeless_mbp: I'll bite, maybe.	13:27
timeless_mbp	zerojay: step one: mute your n900 -- this is for your sanity	13:28
timeless_mbp	step two: open "Get started" (preferably in en-GB or official en-US -- we don't want to confuse people by using my strings)	13:28
andre__	zerojay, feel free to drop me an email with exact info (version, steps to reproduce if possible)	13:28
timeless_mbp	step three: you have to wait a while...	13:28
zerojay	andre__: Will do.	13:28
timeless_mbp	at a certain point there will be a message at the bottom "Check status"	13:28
timeless_mbp	shortly thereafter they'll tap on the status area	13:28
timeless_mbp	get a screen shot of the resulting slide down thing	13:29
timeless_mbp	read the date listed in the clock	13:29
timeless_mbp	then get a working calendar	13:29
crashanddie	Jaffa, could you email me your presentation material?	13:29
timeless_mbp	at this point, you can (and probably should) kill Get started	13:29
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zerojay	lol... wtf...	13:30
mgedmin	anybody else amused at how the official manual has the browser fullscreen button icon flipped horizontally?	13:30
* mgedmin out lunch		13:30
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zerojay	switching from your strings to the default ones has replaced my clock with "xt:26 years ago am"	13:30
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: picture/url? :)	13:30
timeless_mbp	zerojay: you need to reboot sadly	13:31
timeless_mbp	the system isn't very good about dealing w/ files	13:31
zerojay	That's hilarious.	13:31
timeless_mbp	i think it basically caches pointers to file offsets	13:31
timeless_mbp	and assumes that they'd be valid	13:31
zerojay	ouch	13:31
timeless_mbp	except for our broken file system something about that assumption doesn't hold	13:31
timeless_mbp	i haven't had enough time to figure out precisely what	13:31
timeless_mbp	you can also crash half a dozen apps in gettext when switching locale files	13:32
anidel	mgedmin the official n900 ad videos usually sport a different ui allover the place	13:32
zerojay	Sounds like the kind of stuff fan translators of ROMs run into all the time.	13:32
anidel	mgedmin like the share button in a video appearing on top of the video and not on the toolbar like ti does now.. also videos continue to play reduced in size when you task switch and that doesn't happen	13:32
zerojay	anidel: That's what happens when your UI's changing up until the last minute while marketing's gotta get stuff done earlier.	13:33
timeless_mbp	yeah	13:33
anidel	zerojay: yep..	13:33
zerojay	Happens in games all the time.	13:33
Khertan	anidel: try with mplayer the video continue playing while you are in the task manager	13:33
zerojay	Japanese screenshots on the back of the box, for example.	13:33
anidel	I know, it makes perfectly sense...	13:34
timeless_mbp	zerojay: anyway, lemme know when you've rebooted and gotten the picture :)	13:34
zerojay	timeless_mbp: Getting there.	13:34
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anidel	khertan: reduced to a thumbnail size as well?	13:34
Khertan	yep	13:34
anidel	khertan:cool..	13:34
zerojay	What's the shortcut for taking a screenshot again?	13:34
anidel	khertan: wow effect.. but does it stop playing when actually switching to another app? a video makes sense to be stopped	13:35
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samad	is there any API that i can detect the device (n900)is sleep mode or dead mode ? plz the library name ??	13:35
anidel	CTRL-SHIFT-P	13:35
Khertan	anidel: nope :)	13:35
anidel	khertan: thumbs down in Extras Testing :p	13:35
anidel	eheh	13:36
Khertan	thumbs down only if it s a blocking things	13:36
Khertan	not for such minor conception	13:36
anidel	consuming battery when not in foreground is :D	13:36
Khertan	and personnaly i prefere that it keep playing in background for listening music on video clips	13:36
anidel	khertan: ehehe sorry was just teasing... :)	13:37
Khertan	:	13:37
Khertan	:)	13:37
* Khertan didn't like this extras-testing validation process ... but did'nt have better proposition		13:38
Khertan	i think it ll make developper unhappy ...	13:38
zerojay	I love that someone thumbed down adblock plus saying it's not optified when it is... he realizes his mistake but does nothing to correct it. Heh. Thanks buddy.	13:39
Khertan	^^ example 1	13:39
jeremiah	Well, having a high quality QA system is really important for users	13:39
jeremiah	And while our current system might not be optimal, it is pretty good	13:40
jeremiah	It is open and takes input from the community.	13:40
Khertan	jeremiah: having happy developper is also important	13:40
crashanddie	lol, anyone checked out xkcd today? (http://xkcd.com)	13:40
jeremiah	True	13:40
Khertan	jeremiah: yep ... i didn't found any better idea ...	13:40
qwerty12_N810	mikkov_: I still maintain that osso_hw_set_display_event_cb() works, especially as I'm using it in my own applet :p	13:40
jeremiah	We definitely need to have happy developers.	13:40
jeremiah	That is a fact.	13:40
Khertan	jeremiah: i don't like the current process, but i think it s the best compromise	13:40
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jeremiah	Glad to hear your feedback about it, I think a few people feel the way you do.	13:41
Khertan	yep ...	13:41
jeremiah	Hopefully it will get better	13:41
crashanddie	samad, define sleep or dead mode	13:41
jeremiah	I will work to make it better anyway! :)	13:41
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Khertan	jeremiah: :)	13:41
anidel	xournal is not optified.. but for a reason, optfying it didn't work on my package.. didn't link the actual 'resource' files (only the executable)..	13:42
wazd	> Please notice we cannot ship to Russia due to security restrictions by Nokia.	13:42
anidel	if someone thumbs it down.. there's a problem:)	13:42
wazd	Ok, that's enough	13:42
crashanddie	Khertan, d'un cote, j'ai 4 documents de 20 pages a ecrire, j'ai 2 conf call cet aprem, et je viens de recevoir une prime et une augmentation "pour ma qualite et force de travail phenomenale"	13:42
qwerty12_N810	wazd: Treat it as an excuse to visit your bordering country, Finland :)	13:42
zerojay	timeless_mbp: Got the pic.	13:42
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wazd	I'm feeling like a fucking terrorist sitting in a mountains and ordering n900	13:43
wazd	screw it	13:43
Khertan	crashanddie: héhé ... félicitation ... la prochaine fois tu en aura le double :)	13:43
zerojay	crashanddie: Wow... toujours si occupe que ca?	13:43
crashanddie	Khertan, d'un autre cote, je suis a la maison, demain j'me casse aux states pendant 2 semaines, et j'ai plus que 12 courses a faire avant de finir burnout	13:43
Khertan	crashanddie: de travail :)	13:43
Stskeeps	wazd, scary	13:43
Khertan	crashanddie: burnout ? ca se fini vite fais comme jeu ca	13:43
crashanddie	zerojay, fuck, I wasn't expecting someone else to read french	13:44
wazd	Stskeeps: that's not even reply to me, that's Vlad's	13:44
zerojay	crashanddie: lol.	13:44
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zerojay	crashanddie: I'm in Quebec, so.. heh.	13:44
Khertan	lol	13:44
zerojay	Only for one more week.	13:44
crashanddie	so you learnt the language just for a week?	13:44
wazd	Stskeeps: I'm not cool enough for a reply from forum nokia	13:44
Stskeeps	wazd: russia is obviously a terrorist country with nuclear weapons.	13:44
zerojay	crashanddie: No, I've lived in Quebec most of my life, but didn't really learn french too well until this recent stint of 4 years here.	13:45
RST38h	wazd: Vlad is in .BY why would he ship to .RU?	13:45
crashanddie	hmm	13:45
crashanddie	RST38h, because you don't ship to TLDs, only postal addresses	13:45
Stskeeps	wazd, qgil did say he would look into the russian issue	13:45
wazd	RST38h: dunno	13:46
crashanddie	Stskeeps, that sounds so wrong and so right at the same time	13:46
wazd	Stskeeps: I don't care anymore in fact	13:46
crashanddie	"The Russian Issue", could be a good movie from the 70s	13:46
Stskeeps	wazd: mm	13:46
anidel	wazd: you could have it shipped to someone and then shipped to you?	13:46
wazd	anidel: I won't order one	13:46
Khertan	Bye ... going to eat something ...	13:47
crashanddie	Khertan, bon app	13:47
Khertan	merci	13:47
anidel	khertan enjoy your food	13:47
zerojay	60 Minutes presents... The Russian Issue.	13:47
anidel	wazd: you wouldn't because of this issue?	13:48
samad	crashanddie, i mean when device idle state (standby mode)	13:48
timeless_mbp	zerojay: have you found the bug?	13:48
zerojay	Yeah.	13:48
timeless_mbp	filing? :)	13:49
* timeless_mbp can't figure out how they managed to fail to use a calendar		13:49
zerojay	timeless_mbp: Yeah, though I'm just not sure that would be fixed.	13:49
zerojay	"Artist is a dumbass."	13:49
timeless_mbp	not artist	13:49
timeless_mbp	it's a string	13:49
timeless_mbp	i can tell you where it is too :)	13:49
timeless_mbp	apt-get install gettext	13:49
zerojay	Oh, so it's not just simply .pngs being pushed around then	13:49
timeless_mbp	msgunfmt /usr/share/locales/en_US/LC_MESSAGES/osso-tutorial.mo	13:50
timeless_mbp	nope	13:50
timeless_mbp	it's actually vaguely cool	13:50
timeless_mbp	s/Artist/String writer/	13:51
RST38h	wazd: that is really a regular problem, not something to get upset over	13:51
timeless_mbp	anyway, file a bug, indicate it's a string error, attach the picture	13:51
zerojay	ok	13:51
RST38h	Can't bring anything in, can't send anything out	13:51
timeless_mbp	perhaps explain to someone how to use a calendar ... ? :)	13:52
SpeedEvil	Just ask Julian.	13:53
zerojay	I'll be extra assholish and add a screenshot from the calendar app and play that old Sesame Street song.. "one of these things is not like the other..."	13:53
zerojay	:)	13:53
timeless_mbp	wfm :)	13:53
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Jaffa	crashanddie: The video?	13:54
Jaffa	s/video/screencast/	13:54
infobot	Jaffa meant: crashanddie: The screencast?	13:55
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zerojay	timeless_mbp: wfm?	13:55
zerojay	oh.	13:55
timeless_mbp	worksforme :)	13:55
* timeless_mbp hunts food		13:55
zash	kill it and grill it!	13:55
crashanddie	Jaffa, you have a screencast?	13:56
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zash	timeless_mbp: Save the Planet, Eat Your Dog -- slashdot	13:56
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wazd	RST38h: I'm fine, don't need n900 anyway	14:04
anidel	wazd: you need it when you start using it ;)	14:04
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SpeedEvil	IIRC from openmoko that getting approval for a phone in russia was annoying	14:05
SpeedEvil	maybe that's part of the issue.	14:05
SpeedEvil	(I know, not ...)	14:05
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zerojay	timeless_mbp: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5796	14:07
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anidel	how did you notice that ?	14:09
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Jaffa	crashanddie: Which presentation material do you want? ;-)	14:09
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crashanddie	Jaffa, just stuff to present Maemo (if you have anything that present the history, the OS, the community, the relationship with Nokia, future plans)	14:10
zerojay	anidel: Timeless noticed it. I just reported it for him.	14:11
zerojay	anidel: But after years of working QA, you learn how to look for things that could be wrong.	14:11
kurtan	hmm.. "According to Swedish nokia and a reseller (katshing.se) will the n900 be delayed to the end of 09 in sweden, seems like something is very wrong"	14:12
anidel	0j: indeed	14:12
kurtan	really? :(	14:12
anidel	kurtan? where?	14:12
kurtan	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33313&page=17	14:13
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Stskeeps	kurtan: for 3 sweden to fix it with a sw update	14:13
hrw	morning	14:13
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kurtan	en swedish: http://www.minhembio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=240785&st=1380&p=2630195&#entry2630195	14:13
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kurtan	in*	14:13
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timeless	yep	14:13
anidel	I don't think a reseller and even swedish nokia know the final delivery date...	14:13
kurtan	Stskeeps: mkay, so 3 has problems so noone gets it ?	14:14
timeless	first rule of hunting bugs: read the strings	14:14
SpeedEvil	http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.minhembio.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fshowtopic%3D240785%26st%3D1380%26p%3D2630195%26%23entry2630195&sl=auto&tl=en&history_state0=	14:14
Stskeeps	kurtan: noclue	14:14
kurtan	neither do I, but, come on.. yesterday they had v44 as date on shop.nokia.se :\|	14:14
SpeedEvil	and yes - it's not implausibel that it'd be wrong	14:14
timeless	second rule: assume the authors can't string together words consistently	14:14
crashanddie	zerojay, there's quebec city's weather for ya: http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200910/err1/wtf_walpha_weather.gif	14:14
zerojay	crashanddie: lol	14:15
kurtan	lol	14:15
zerojay	crashanddie: I just got back from visiting Halifax. It went from -2 and torrential downpours to sunny and 20 in 4 hours.	14:15
crashanddie	good thing they didn't try scotland, that would probably have replied "42"	14:15
crashanddie	zerojay, dude, that's just your average london summer day	14:16
Jaffa	crashanddie: Ah, OK	14:16
anidel	zerojay: halifax is in nova scotia , right?	14:16
zerojay	That's pretty fucked.	14:16
zerojay	anidel: Yep, I was over there apartment hunting.	14:16
crashanddie	london is the only place on earth where the weather's mood can actually compete with the randomness of a woman's mind!	14:16
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anidel	zerojay: cool, been there once (in nova scotia) driving around in sept '03 or '04	14:17
anidel	crashanddie: go live in Baltimore and say it again	14:17
zerojay	Baltimore's terrible.	14:17
anidel	I know.. been there 3 years	14:17
zerojay	I was on the bus waiting for it to take off when I saw two muggings outside my window in 5 minutes.	14:17
crashanddie	anidel, is there any place you haven't been?	14:18
zerojay	2!	14:18
anidel	crashanddie yes, Hell :)	14:18
RST38h	Don't go to Baltimore on the bus and you will be ok =)	14:18
crashanddie	and you didn't help?	14:18
derf	So, it was a quiet day?	14:18
anidel	zerojay: 2? when and where? I was at the Johns Hopkins	14:18
anidel	the campus in charles street, not the medical one	14:18
crashanddie	RST38h, thing is, when riding the bus, you can't get carjacked	14:18
zerojay	crashanddie: By the time I was off the bus to help, it was already over.. and then when I sat back down the second one happened. lol	14:18
* RST38h often wandered around Johns Hopkins		14:18
zerojay	anidel: I can't tell you. I was there visiting a friend in Glen Burnie at the time.	14:19
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zerojay	anidel: This was... 2005.	14:19
anidel	glen burnie... names that reminds me of the time spent in balto	14:19
RST38h	crash: I have never been carjacked in Baltimore, although the possibility of that crossed my mind more than once =)	14:19
anidel	2005 is when I left :)	14:19
crashanddie	Johns Hopkins? Is that a metaphor for St Anthony?	14:19
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timeless	no	14:19
anidel	i was there 2001-2004	14:19
timeless	it's a prestegious medical college	14:19
anidel	timeless: not only that :)	14:20
crashanddie	timeless, not that good on spelling though, are they?	14:20
anidel	timeless when I was there it was a prestigious CS dept as well :P ahah well they started the Security Institute	14:20
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timeless	anidel: i went to umcp	14:20
zerojay	The airport in Glen Burnie's so close to the road that you practically can touch the landing gear of arriving planes from your car's sunroof.	14:20
timeless	we didn't care much about johns hopkins beyond med/math	14:20
timeless	iirc their math program was tops	14:21
jaska	mad/meth	14:21
RST38h	Is Glen Burnie a town? =)	14:21
timeless	yes	14:21
crashanddie	jaska++	14:21
zerojay	RST38h: Suburb of Baltimore.	14:21
timeless	oh and CTY	14:21
* RST38h remembers Glen Burnie as a spot on the map		14:21
crashanddie	Glen Burnie sounds like the sheriff's dog in some town in Nebraska	14:21
RST38h	Not different from the surroundings really	14:21
anidel	I think they openened some mall around there...	14:21
timeless	that was more important really	14:21
Jaffa	crashanddie: Sent	14:21
crashanddie	Jaffa, ta	14:21
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timeless	did you guys help w/ CTY?	14:22
RST38h	Last time I checked it was still a no-place covered with McDonaldses and malls	14:22
crashanddie	Jaffa, appreciate it, I saw the presentation, thanks	14:22
anidel	rst38h indeed	14:22
RST38h	Can't even get robbed there, I guess	14:22
timeless	oh, zerojay: can it's pm where you are, right?	14:23
timeless	Look at the clock in the status area	14:23
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zerojay	timeless: Wha?	14:23
timeless	does the third leg of the m look broken?	14:23
timeless	maybe too cramped?	14:23
zerojay	In that screenshot? Or on the phone?	14:23
timeless	now	14:23
timeless	live	14:23
zerojay	Yeah, the right side of m is short by one pixel.	14:24
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timeless	please file a bug :)	14:24
zerojay	Same issue as that other font bug I filed... can't remember it though, but it was WNF'd.	14:24
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timeless	we should collect each of them anyway	14:25
timeless	just to have a record of annoyances	14:25
zerojay	Happen to remember offhand what the other problem in the font was?	14:25
hrw	uf. nokia replied to n900 discount reply	14:25
timeless	screwing up am/pm is pretty stupid	14:25
timeless	~n comes to mind	14:26
zerojay	That's the one.	14:26
anidel	hrw: replied to you?	14:26
hrw	anidel: replied	14:26
timeless	different side of the letter though :)	14:26
zerojay	Yeah, that one was the far right side.	14:27
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zerojay	Yeah, the real issue here is that the space between the middle and right legs of the m is only two pixels wide instead of three like the other side.	14:28
zerojay	Also, no anti-aliasing on it for some reason.	14:28
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zerojay	timeless: That is what you're talking about, right?	14:29
timeless	yep	14:30
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zerojay	I'm sure someone in .fi is going to see this bug and yell out "wtf?!"	14:31
zerojay	"These people are crazy seeing 1 missing pixel on a screen that dense!"	14:32
zerojay	You know... if Finns had emotions.	14:32
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* zerojay ponders the existence of emos in Finland.		14:33
anidel	eheheh	14:33
hrw	Thank you, now we can find your account and have enabled you the N900.	14:34
hrw	We will email you once the device is available in the service and you can then fill in the order request.	14:34
hrw	yes;D	14:34
anidel	but this missing pixel is on the swf or on the PM in the clock?	14:34
anidel	would that mean all the M miss it? or is just a particular combination of the position of the PM?	14:34
anidel	hrw :) cool	14:34
zerojay	anidel: The pm in the clock.	14:36
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zerojay	am too.	14:36
anidel	I use 24hr.. let me see	14:36
zerojay	I remember once filing a bug on one of our cell phone games because one pixel was always blue. Turns out it was just a problem with the screen. lol	14:37
anidel	ahah	14:37
anidel	the clock in the toolbar	14:37
anidel	?	14:37
zerojay	yeah.	14:37
anidel	i can see the third leg closer to the middle one.. can't seem to notice the missing pixel.. I should take a screenshot and zoom	14:38
RST38h	Just use 24-hour mode	14:39
zerojay	lol	14:39
anidel	uhm.. the eight seems fine	14:39
zerojay	anidel: The area between the second and third legs uses two pixels instead of three.	14:39
anidel	0j: yep noticed that..	14:40
zerojay	When I post the bug, you'll see.	14:40
anidel	that's the missing pixel, ok	14:40
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anidel	it seems to happen only in the toolbar	14:41
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anidel	if you go to alarm clock, the am pm there use the same font and size (looks like) and am is fine	14:42
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anidel	and pm is showing the three pixel distance between all the legs...	14:42
anidel	weird it happens only there.	14:42
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RST38h	Fix it in Harmattan!	14:43
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zerojay	RST38h: I was already told it won't be.	14:44
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RST38h	zerojay: Fully expected	14:45
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zerojay	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5798	14:45
zerojay	https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1506	14:45
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zerojay	RST38h: Something about where the font comes from or something.	14:46
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timeless_mbp	zerojay: thanks	14:47
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_berto_	geocities is dead -> http://xkcd.com/ :D	14:48
timeless_mbp	RST38h: i spoke to someone	14:48
mikkov__	qwerty12: interesting, it didn't work before :) Anyway you don't need to use osso_hw_set_display_event_cb() anymore, because now is-on-current-desktop property changes also when screen blanks	14:48
timeless_mbp	it sounds like the fix for font bugs is to disown nokia	14:48
timeless_mbp	i've been in favor of that for year	14:48
timeless_mbp	s	14:48
timeless_mbp	sadly, i don't think that'll happen	14:48
fiferboy	X-Fade: ping?	14:49
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X-Fade	fiferboy: here	14:49
fiferboy	X-Fade: I have a new package in extras-testing, but it doesn't show up in the QA package page...	14:50
* anidel decides it's time for lunch		14:50
X-Fade	fiferboy: How long ago did you promote it?	14:50
fiferboy	Initially, on Thursday or Friday	14:51
X-Fade	fiferboy: Hmm should not take more than 1 hour.	14:51
X-Fade	fiferboy: which package?	14:51
fiferboy	X-Fade: That's what I thought.	14:51
fiferboy	X-Fade: personal-photo-frame	14:52
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X-Fade	fiferboy: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/personal-photo-frame/0.2-4/	14:52
X-Fade	fiferboy: That one?	14:52
GeceBekcisi	wow, way crowded than I thought..	14:53
RST38h	fiferboy: Any chances for a huge shaped alcohol thermometer showing the OMAP temperature? ;)	14:53
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kkito	hello	14:53
fiferboy	X-Fade: Yes, it shows up there. But not here: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/	14:53
fiferboy	RST38h: :D	14:53
fiferboy	RST38h: I'll put it in the queue	14:54
kkito	do you know if it is possible to run opengl-es2 apps in scratchbox (X86 or ARMEL) ?	14:54
X-Fade	fiferboy: It seems the package doesn't have a section..	14:54
X-Fade	fiferboy: but that should not hide it.	14:54
X-Fade	fiferboy: Will try to find out what happened.	14:54
fiferboy	X-Fade: I was just going to check the packaging on it	14:54
zerojay	fiferboy: Oops, sorry.	14:56
fiferboy	zerojay: ?	14:56
* zerojay plugs the builder machine back in.		14:56
RST38h	fiferboy: (and a brass manometer for the CPU load =)]	14:56
fiferboy	RST38h: I'm not even sure what a manometer is...	14:57
RST38h	fiferboy: pressure gauge	14:57
fiferboy	RST38h: Ah	14:57
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zerojay	thought it might be a boner meter.	14:58
RST38h	fiferboy: http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_images_n300/0024-0412-0522-3944_antique_pressure_gauge.jpg	14:58
fiferboy	X-Fade: In my control file it has "Section: user/desktop"	14:58
RST38h	fiferboy: I guess it is...in a way	14:58
X-Fade	fiferboy: Ok, will check that too.	14:59
fiferboy	X-Fade: It is in the "Source" portion, not the "Package" - is that correct?	14:59
X-Fade	fiferboy: Source portion is where it should be.	15:01
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X-Fade	fiferboy: Most packages have section right after source line.	15:03
fiferboy	X-Fade: I can change that, but it is like that in my three other packages too	15:03
X-Fade	fiferboy: yeah, should not matter.	15:03
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qwerty12_N810	mikkov_: Ah, awesome, thanks :)	15:35
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saltsa_	how long the battery powers the n900 without charging?	15:37
Mek	until it is empty	15:40
ccooke	saltsa_: Depends on usage. Although it seems pretty okay right this minute. Mine's been running on battery since about 8am (5h40m ago) with light use (maybe 30 minutes of that time). The battery is only a sliver below full.	15:41
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lbt	on the pre-production one I have I've been listening to music for a couple of hours+, made 3 shortish calls, made a few notes, checked tasks.... about 90% full since going off charge 6hrs ago	15:43
mgedmin	I used my n900 as a wireless acccess point sharing its 3g connection	15:43
mgedmin	battery went from full to zero in about two hours	15:43
ccooke	mgedmin: That figures :-)	15:44
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lbt	heh, good point.. I'm not "connected"	15:44
ccooke	Running multiple radios is going to eat battery	15:44
X-Fade	mgedmin: That sounds very low.	15:44
mgedmin	that's what I thought too	15:45
X-Fade	Although I guess your wifi doesn't do PSM then.	15:45
sulx	3g and wlan at full throttle...takes quite power	15:45
mgedmin	ad-hoc wifi == no PSM possible	15:45
ccooke	that'll do it.	15:45
saltsa_	ccooke, okey, I heard that it can only manage about two hours or something when used actively...	15:45
ccooke	in that case, two hours is about right.	15:46
ccooke	saltsa_: depends on your definition of active.	15:46
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kkito	do you know if is it possible to run opengl-es2 apps in scratchbox (X86 or ARMEL) ?	15:46
ccooke	yes, I'm certain there are things that'll drain you in two hours - mgedmin's just demonstrated one. But that is a pretty extreme thing to do, and was without power saving.	15:47
lardman	hmm, am getting segfault in Gstreamer xvimagesink code	15:47
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ccooke	but I've been getting around 20-24 hours of moderate to light use the last week or so.	15:47
X-Fade	I charge once a day, manages to last whole day without problems.	15:49
lardman	anyone know if the data I get passed in a buffer probe callback is the actual data, or if it's a copy?	15:49
ccooke	ditto.	15:49
ccooke	and it's certainly lasted the one day last week when I only charged it overnight, and didnt' go to bed for 21 hours.	15:50
X-Fade	But whenever I get a device, the first week it doesn't manage to reach the end of the day ;)	15:50
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X-Fade	Just because you play with it a lot more.	15:51
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saltsa_	okey, how long it will stay online when it's in standby/idling in gsm/umts network	15:52
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X-Fade	saltsa_: days	15:52
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saltsa_	or what's the talk time on gsm or umts network? iPohne had some 10h in gsm and 5h in umts	15:52
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X-Fade	saltsa_: check maemo.nokia.com, it is all there.	15:53
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Milo-	tekojo hello	15:55
tekojo	hello Milo-	15:56
Milo-	I'm one of the students you discussed two weeks ago in Metropolia University	15:56
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tekojo	Hi!	15:57
Milo-	at least one of the qt applications I had written before compiled nicely on maemo5-sdk :)	15:58
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Milo-	nokia has hidden the release date of n900 very carefully from the public, rumour was that it would be out this week	16:00
Milo-	hopefully it's true :D	16:00
mgedmin	last news from nokia said "november"	16:00
Milo-	Last news I saw was 'week 44', but that was two weeks ago	16:01
* timeless_mbp frowns		16:01
tekojo	Milo- good to hear, but you know we don't talk of dates :-)	16:01
Milo-	unfortunatelly yes :P	16:01
Milo-	it's always with software projects	16:01
timeless_mbp	so... i need someone who's willing to poke some perl for a bit	16:02
Milo-	tekojo I liked the tone of your voice when you said "emacs", are you a Vim user?	16:03
Shapeshifter	man... the keyboard on the n900 looks incredibly small	16:03
tekojo	both :-)	16:03
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Shapeshifter	the whole device looks small. Or this guy has a huge hand http://www.allaboutmaemo.com/gallery/item/Nokia_N900.php?phid=4035783124&page=1	16:04
Milo-	Shapeshifter the whole device is small	16:04
Milo-	it's the size of e71	16:04
Shapeshifter	http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2570/4035783124_250fbaa721_o.jpg rather	16:04
Milo-	that hand looks rather weird.	16:05
timeless_mbp	Shapeshifter: i'd say that his pinky is on the wide side of things	16:05
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mgedmin	photoshopped!	16:05
timeless_mbp	but otherwise, it's fairly close	16:06
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: a coworker was just reviewing photoshop disasters	16:06
pupnik	reading smartphone forums - another planet	16:06
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Shapeshifter	I sure hope I can even use the keyboard...	16:06
mgedmin	http://xkcd.com/331/	16:06
Milo-	that guy is missing three fingers.	16:06
Flandry	question about uploading to extras:	16:06
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Flandry	which .changes file do i use--armel or x86?	16:06
* X-Fade is all ears ;)		16:06
Milo-	but placing my e71 like that on my hand creates roughly the same picture.	16:06
mgedmin	Flandry: both, but especially armel	16:07
X-Fade	Flandry: The source one.	16:07
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mgedmin	Flandry: don't listen to me	16:07
Milo-	oh btw, is the kernel of maemo5 32 or 64bit?	16:07
X-Fade	Flandry: You don't upload binaries, you upload source packages.	16:07
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Flandry	the source one...	16:07
Flandry	hmm	16:07
X-Fade	Flandry: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras	16:08
Flandry	yeah i'm on that wiki page	16:08
X-Fade	Flandry: Check the Debian tooling part.	16:08
X-Fade	Flandry: Basically `dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S -i	16:09
Flandry	i take it the defaults of dpkg-buildpackage aren't going to work	16:09
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Flandry	and i blew away the sdk and scratchbox because it was fubor	16:09
X-Fade	Flandry: No, that builds the binary package.	16:09
Flandry	k	16:09
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Milo-	http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2798/4035005871_37d68bd45a_o.jpg uhh, a nokia coffee-stirrer.	16:10
Stskeeps	nokia candies are good too	16:10
X-Fade	fiferboy: Found the missing section bug, fixed it locally.	16:10
Flandry	shoot i need to cancel the autobuild request	16:11
fiferboy	X-Fade: :) So it wasn't me? (or was it?)	16:11
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X-Fade	fiferboy: no, it was me.	16:11
X-Fade	fiferboy: Algo was to dumb ;)	16:11
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X-Fade	*too	16:12
X-Fade	Flandry: It will fail pretty quickly, if you did something wrong.	16:12
X-Fade	Flandry: Don't worry.	16:12
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fiferboy	Is there any documentation on using tracker?	16:21
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fiferboy	The API docs leave a lot to be explained	16:21
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X-Fade	fiferboy: Your app now shows in the QA queue.	16:23
fiferboy	X-Fade: Thank you very much!	16:24
X-Fade	fiferboy: QA queue filters on user/* section apps, guess what happened when yours was empty ;)	16:24
fiferboy	Now to figure out why the icon doesn't show. You said that was a separate process, right?	16:24
fiferboy	X-Fade: Do you know why mine was showing empty? It is in the control file...	16:24
X-Fade	Yeah, takes a while after my import.	16:24
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X-Fade	fiferboy: Yeah, I had a logic bug in there. Order of items was different.	16:25
fiferboy	X-Fade: Thanks for fixing that up. Sorry to make more work for you!	16:25
X-Fade	fiferboy: No problem, I guess this fixed something for other apps too.	16:26
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riddlebox	does anyone use maemo-mapper?	16:26
fatal^	yes	16:30
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riddlebox	fatal^, I have saved a track(as txt) and it will not upload, I have done this before and it worked	16:31
anidel	back	16:31
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anidel	if someone votes thumbs up for your application, but leave a comment with a good suggestion on how to fix a non show-stopper issue.. what would you do? wait for the app to get released to Extras and then push an update? or push an update now losing all the thumbs up?	16:33
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RST38h	anidel: I would push an updates. At the moment, I have given up on trying to get my apps into Extras	16:33
anidel	actually.. if my app is in Extras and I release an update.. will the update go straight to extras, or will it go thru all the testing process again?	16:33
RST38h	s/updates/update/	16:34
infobot	RST38h meant: anidel: I would push an update. At the moment, I have given up on trying to get my apps into Extras	16:34
RST38h	anidel: No, it will have to stay in Testing and collect 10 votes again	16:34
X-Fade	anidel: Will go through testing again.	16:34
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anidel	okay so it's better to push the update now	16:34
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anidel	unless one really wants to push his app to extras now :)	16:34
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: so, sorry for asking you to spend so much effort on that	16:35
RST38h	anidel: I would say not "better", but irrelevant	16:35
mgedmin	what?	16:35
mgedmin	did I miss something?	16:35
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mgedmin	timeless_mbp: this is coming a bit out of the blue for me now, context, please?	16:35
anidel	rst38h not really.. pushing the update means people would have to retest it again.. and in this case is just a hildon banner appearing .. nothing new	16:35
anidel	marius, it depends what you're talking about :)	16:36
RST38h	anidel: No, what I mean is that having an app in Fremantle Extras is irrelevant	16:36
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mgedmin	I'm talking about "<timeless_mbp> mgedmin: so, sorry for asking you to spend so much effort on that"	16:36
timeless_mbp	remember the pl=> py conversion	16:36
mgedmin	yep	16:36
RST38h	anidel: It is almost empty, all the apps are in Extras-Testing	16:36
timeless_mbp	i got my script happy enough using pl	16:36
mgedmin	decided to stick with perl?	16:36
mgedmin	okay	16:37
timeless_mbp	and given the fact that pulling in python would be expensive	16:37
mgedmin	means I won't have to maintain the py version :-)	16:37
timeless_mbp	heh	16:37
RST38h	anidel: And Extras is more like an official Nokia showcase, empty and gathering dust	16:37
anidel	rst38h so it'd be one of the first :P I don't care , but there may be who cares...	16:37
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RST38h	anidel: What is your app?	16:37
anidel	rst38h: Xournal	16:37
anidel	used to take notes on the tablets even on PDFs	16:38
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RST38h	anidel: You have exactly 1 vote for Xournal. And that vote is mine :)	16:38
anidel	no, there were three few minutes ago :)	16:39
RST38h	anidel: So, I would screw it and upload a new package :)	16:39
RST38h	reloading	16:39
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anidel	marat, andre and mattia	16:39
andre__	yes, i did vote :)	16:39
RST38h	Xournal	16:39
RST38h	0.4.2.1-1fremantle13	16:39
anidel	still.. few votes :) .. I'll update xournal tonight.. but was wondering	16:39
RST38h	Karma: 1	16:39
RST38h	anidel: Before you update it though, could you consider my comment?	16:40
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anidel	refresh again: 3 out of 10	16:40
* RST38h curses proxies		16:40
anidel	that's all about your comment :)	16:40
anidel	if you're Marat	16:40
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RST38h	Oh...I do not think a simple banner will be sufficient though	16:41
RST38h	The banner will show up and disappear, but Xournal will continue using up 100% CPU for minutes	16:41
anidel	did you try to open your PDF with the PDF Viewer?	16:41
RST38h	Yea	16:41
anidel	is it any faster or lighter in opening it up?	16:42
RST38h	It is way lighter	16:42
anidel	wonder what are they using...	16:42
RST38h	Actually the PDF I have opened is the GPL license shipped with the device :)	16:42
anidel	need to check their dependencies..	16:42
anidel	wow.. I used to open bigger PDFs	16:42
anidel	let me try that.. where is it located?	16:42
RST38h	Try opening it - Xournal will show the opening page right away, but it will then continue using CPU	16:42
mgedmin	MyDocs/.documents/maemo_software_copyright.pdf ?	16:43
RST38h	Documents/maemo_software_copyright.pdf	16:43
RST38h	anidel: I have one more bug to report, this one much more clearcut	16:43
anidel	uhm...	16:44
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anidel	can't reproduce it	16:45
RST38h	anidel: Ok, let me tell you of the second bug and I will try to reproduce the pdf bug later	16:45
anidel	actually I need to bring in Go To next / prev pages	16:45
RST38h	1) Start Xournal 2) Make sure Pencil is selected	16:45
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anidel	ok	16:46
RST38h	3) Select the ruler 4) Select the marker	16:46
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anidel	ok	16:46
anidel	uhm	16:46
anidel	seen it	16:47
RST38h	5) Try drawing, rule does not work 6) Select ruler again 7) Try drawing, ruler will work although its icon is off	16:47
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RST38h	Similar problem occurs with ruler/hand	16:47
anidel	think I know where this stems for.. nice finding	16:47
anidel	so will definitely push a new update later	16:48
RST38h	looks like pencil and marker have separate ruler settings or something	16:48
Macer	so	16:48
anidel	anyway.. tried to open that PDF but load average is very low to me	16:48
Macer	n900 going to be out for christmas? :)	16:48
mgedmin	Macer: we hope	16:48
RST38h	anidel: I will work on recreatig it later today	16:48
Macer	mgedmin: i wouldn't get one until after christmas anyways	16:48
Macer	christmas season is the time for price gouging	16:48
timeless_mbp	ok...	16:48
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Macer	i made the mistake last year of going to the mall on christmas eve :)	16:49
timeless_mbp	anyone here want to be a guinea pig? :)	16:49
anidel	rst38h: thanks.. I'll try different PDFs , will put the opening banner to let people know what is doing.. and may be lower the 'nice' while loading the PDF..I'm using libpoppler, don't have much control on it	16:49
Macer	i just wanted to grab a couple more things.. it was anarchy	16:49
RST38h	anidel: Out of personal preference, can I ask you to return the gridded paper and maybe even yellowish aged paper? =)	16:49
RST38h	anidel: These were present in the old version =)	16:49
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pupnik	those can help eyes hold focus	16:49
Macer	the mall is right outside chicago and they had actual police officers at the mall haha	16:49
pupnik	and scan text	16:49
anidel	rst38h: unfortunately this is a lighter version of Xournal, all the tools are there in the code, there's no way to call them.. I had to remove all the menus and need to bring in a new UI	16:50
Macer	because security guards would have been run over or killed	16:50
anidel	I'm designing it and it'll take sometime to make it	16:50
RST38h	anidel: Oh	16:50
RST38h	anidel: Bring it on! =)	16:50
anidel	so I'm pushing a lighter version now and an update later	16:50
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RST38h	anidel: Ok I can recreate the pdf bug now	16:50
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pupnik	otoh, word procs and terminals generally dont use textured bgs either	16:50
RST38h	anidel: Do you hasvae the CPU load indicator installer?	16:51
RST38h	installed	16:51
anidel	using top to monitor	16:51
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RST38h	Ok	16:51
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RST38h	1) Start Xournal 2) Opem maemo_software_copyright	16:52
RST38h	3) Watch top (or CPU Load) - it stays at 100%	16:52
RST38h	HTOP shows pdftoppm eating 100% CPU	16:53
anidel	weird, not on mine	16:53
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anidel	it's fast and tops 74% for a few secs	16:53
RST38h	Still stays at 100% here	16:53
X-Fade	RST38h: Not swapping something out?	16:54
anidel	uhm which version do you have?	16:54
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anidel	no you're right... pdftoppm has spikes..	16:56
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anidel	let me see if it happens with other pdfs	16:58
RST38h	pdftoppm version 3.00	16:58
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anidel	same	16:59
RST38h	does notspikeforme,stays at 100% instead	16:59
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mgedmin	md5sum the pdf file?	16:59
mgedmin	see you're running the same things?	16:59
RST38h	and the image is already shown and I can edit it in xournal	16:59
RST38h	a mooment	17:00
anidel	i'll have a look at it though	17:01
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anidel	thanks :)	17:02
RST38h	I have got the md5sum	17:02
RST38h	a moment	17:02
anidel	2ac7b8fbb....	17:03
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RST38h	552eba4a22c4ed719b02c56c8ada0129	17:03
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RST38h	322963@bytes	17:04
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mgedmin	interesting, isn't it?	17:05
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RST38h	notice that my mmc image is a bit older	17:05
RST38h	it is pre 41-10	17:05
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Flandry	does the host system for the SDK need anything beyond an X-client/server setup? Gnome stuff?	17:10
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TomaszD	hello, does anyone know if/when the official maemo summit 2009 video recordings will be available?	17:10
mihu	It seems I nuked the N900 I received at the Summit. I was playing around with the internals, especially with the gstreamer based multimedia subsystem. Apparently I have damaged the playbin2 of gstreamer. Now when the phone starts up, it hangs when it usually displays the intro video.	17:10
mihu	I just see the "dot bar". The video does not play and the boot does not continue. Any ideas? There is no network connectivity yet, so I cannot SSH into it yet.	17:10
Flandry	d'oh	17:11
TomaszD	ugh, wait for the official firmware release and flash it then...	17:11
mihu	TomaszD: When will that be?	17:11
TomaszD	mihu, as soon as the n900 is commercially available I believe	17:11
TomaszD	or in a few days after that	17:11
TomaszD	but when that happens... I'm not willing to speculate	17:12
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TomaszD	I'm just trying not to mess with it too much, as this is now my only phone	17:12
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pupnik	bad call bro	17:12
TomaszD	when the firmware comes out however... :)	17:12
pupnik	testing phone	17:12
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pupnik	but xferring sim is no problem right?	17:13
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TomaszD	incidentally, I discovered a pretty annoying bug yesterday, if anyone can confirm https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5805	17:14
mgedmin	mihu: try asking qgil for help?	17:14
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mihu	I mean, it's alive, but it just won't go past the intro video. If some Nokia official (or contractor) is on this channel and can help me out, please give me a private message.	17:14
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mihu	mgedmin: I think somebody already asked on the Maemo forum and the answer was like please wait for the official release.	17:15
AndrewFBlack	anyone know if thre are any unit conversion applications for Diablo/Fremantle	17:15
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Flandry	seems like there should be a way to bypass the fancy boot stuff	17:15
mgedmin	but was it a question like "can we have a new firmware image for fun", or "halp, I bricked my n900, halp"?	17:15
mgedmin	AndrewFBlack: yes, it's called the Google widget	17:16
mihu	Flandry: Hopefully.	17:16
Flandry	i mean, if most linux systems had to play a video before access to a console, imagine the chaos	17:16
mihu	mgedmin: I don't remember, I'm trying to find that out.	17:16
X-Fade	mihu: It was somebody who did apt-get dist-upgrade	17:17
X-Fade	And killed his device that way.	17:17
TomaszD	yeah I know at least one person who did that during the summit	17:17
TomaszD	but Nokians reflashed it on the spot	17:17
mgedmin	/etc/X11/Xsession.post/04hildon-welcome-wait does "while pidof hildon-welcome; do sleep 1; done"	17:17
mgedmin	I think that's the bit that's waiting for the video to stop playing	17:18
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anidel	rst could you send me your gpl pdf file?	17:18
Jaffa	X-Fade: Do you or ferenc know of a problem with www from git? (see timsamoff's email to -developers)	17:18
anidel	rst38h	17:18
AndrewFBlack	mgedmin, google doesn' have conversion I need to do	17:18
Macer	why is java such a memory whore	17:18
X-Fade	Jaffa: He did some changes today.	17:18
mgedmin	AndrewFBlack: wolfram alpha?	17:19
Flandry	got an extra layer between you and the hardware	17:19
fiferboy	X-Fade: I had to have my phone reflashed at the summit because of dist-upgrade :(	17:19
RST38h	anidel: yes?	17:19
TomaszD	fiferboy, yeah I was talking about you actually :)	17:19
fiferboy	TomaszD: Did you have to get a new sim card? Or does your phone recongnize your old one now?	17:19
TomaszD	fiferboy, hush hush. Everything is OK now.	17:20
anidel	rst38h if you could send me that pdf .. looks like it's different	17:20
fiferboy	TomaszD: :)	17:20
AndrewFBlack	mgedmin, I am somewhat impressed that any website like that does TBq to MBq conversions but I'm really looking for an appliation so I an stop using Spreadsheet to do it.	17:20
Macer	just shutting down zimbra totaly whores the 512M i gave it. i guess i'll have to give it around 2-4	17:21
RST38h	anidel: Understood, I will in a second.	17:22
anidel	thanks :)	17:22
pupnik	what is easy personal planning / calendar / project mgmt software	17:24
RST38h	anidel: what is your email address?	17:24
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* ccooke considers some openvpn and routing fun to give his n900 a permanent public IP		17:27
mihu	mgedmin: When I connect this dead device via USB, then I it mounts the vfat portion just fine. Hm, is there a key that I can press during bootup that will skip thas media foo? There is no way to get access to the internal memory (/etc/ and stuff) isn't itß	17:27
mihu	I mean it is not dead. It boots up, asks for the PIN of my SIM card but then stops at the video.	17:27
ccooke	Drat, openvpn isn't installable yet. Depends on the (missing) liblzo2-2 package.	17:27
RST38h	anidel: sent	17:28
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mgedmin	mihu: I dunno :/	17:28
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mgedmin	mihu: could you try usb networking?	17:28
mgedmin	does the n900 automatically start a dhcp client on usb0/	17:28
mgedmin	or does it require manual configuration?	17:29
anidel	thanks :D	17:29
X-Fade	ccooke: That should be on your device by default?	17:29
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mihu	mgedmin: What do I need to do so that the N900 starts up with USB networking?	17:30
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mihu	mgedmin: I just need access to /, then I can fix the problem.	17:30
anidel	mihu: well choose PC Suite mode...but. .in your case :)	17:30
Jaffa	X-Fade: And are these changes likely to have caused problems or solved them? Does Ferenc follow -developers?	17:31
mgedmin	btw it's kinda interesting -- you said it mounts vfat, but does it pop up the "charge only/pc suite/usb mass storage" dialog?	17:31
ccooke	X-Fade: apt-cache search liblzo finds... nothing	17:31
mgedmin	lack of liblzo is why I can't install the crash reporter	17:31
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X-Fade	ccooke: Hmm weird, indeed. This is weird as it is supposed to be on the rootfs.	17:32
mihu	anidel: It does not show the selection screen. I pressed "Sym Ctrl" and "Shift" key while bootup then it will expose the card immediately after turning the device on.	17:32
X-Fade	You can see it being indexed in the snapshot of the rootsf I have: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_root_pr_armel/liblzo2-2/2.03-1maemo3/	17:32
anidel	mihu: you can't flash it , can you	17:33
anidel	?	17:33
mgedmin	not without an image :(	17:33
mihu	anidel: If I get the flasher app and an image?	17:33
anidel	ah, right..	17:33
anidel	flasher should be available	17:33
anidel	you can ask on maemo-developers, may be some nokians will be able to help you out individually	17:34
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* mgedmin is afraid the help is likely to be "if you drop by our office in .fi, we'll flash it"		17:34
mgedmin	there was some talk during the summit about putting the image on the web in a couple of days	17:35
mihu	mgedmin: When I plug in the cable at the "Enter PIN code" dialog, then that "Usb connection dialog" is not popping up. I can just make it mount via the sym-ctrl/shift key hack.	17:35
mgedmin	I guess that fell through	17:35
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* mgedmin didn't even know about the ctrl+shift key hack		17:35
anidel	mihu: did you try without a sim and without a minisd?	17:35
Jaffa	Anyone know if there's a more betterer list than https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories#New_list_for_Diablo	17:35
Jaffa	Or shall I create one?	17:36
mihu	anidel: That should not make a difference. I know that I damaged a file in the gstreamer installation. And I made a copy. So if I get access to the root file system somehow, I can swap it in back.	17:36
X-Fade	Jaffa: That one is used for fremantle too.	17:36
lardman	as long as it's the most bestest one possible	17:36
mgedmin	Jaffa: there was a list for fremantle somewhere in the developer guide pages	17:36
mgedmin	seriously, mihu, ask on the list	17:37
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mgedmin	I cannot imagine nokia encouraging their developers to spend time on irc when they're obviously working overtime to get the software out	17:37
Jaffa	Aha http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing#Sections	17:38
Jaffa	Perfect.	17:38
Jaffa	X-Fade: I know, and I'm trying to tell Forum Nokia but didn't want to link to a page containing 'Diablo'	17:38
X-Fade	Jaffa: Hehe, indeed	17:38
mihu	mgedmin: 8-)	17:39
Jaffa	Bingo: http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Talk:Qt_for_Maemo_Developers_Guide	17:39
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lardman	anyone know if I can interchange gst_bin_new and gst_pipeline_new?	17:39
Jaffa	And I can copy & paste from one MediaWiki instance to another :)	17:39
pupnik	i want url hilighting with widened clickable boundaries for xterm	17:40
pupnik	great idea, eh	17:40
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zash	pupnik: doubleclick, magick keycombo -> open url	17:40
pupnik	thumb-hittable links from screen + irssi	17:41
zash	aka, port gnome-do to maemo!	17:41
pupnik	?	17:41
pupnik	zash: the double click dunna werk	17:41
zash	usualy selects whole words in xterm	17:42
zash	duno how maemo treats it there	17:42
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pupnik	i failed to communicate the problem	17:43
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pupnik	it is mostly in selecting urls in xterm	17:44
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pupnik	the launch function is doable now iirc	17:44
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pupnik	other options might be a recent urls dropdown menu	17:46
pupnik	any thoughts?	17:46
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pupnik	how yould you prefer to activate links from terminal?	17:47
mgedmin	recent urls? in xterm?	17:47
pupnik	yes	17:47
pupnik	y not :)	17:47
mgedmin	what would that be? menu -> urls -> select url from list?	17:47
pupnik	ya	17:47
mgedmin	hm, neat idea	17:47
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pupnik	what is the right data structure for that quick lookup/scan text	17:52
pupnik	i think a tree	17:52
pupnik	each url is stored in a tree where each letter is a node	17:53
fatal^	http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/liblocation/LocationGPSDevice.html#LocationGPSDeviceFix	17:53
fatal^	does anyone know how I can get that (double) time converted into a time_t?	17:53
pupnik	when scanning text on screen, you begin traversing tree after encountering http - lookups occur in O(1) time	17:54
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mgedmin	pupnik: construct a DFA from the url regexp?	17:54
pupnik	this must be in a library i assume - what is dfa? :)	17:55
mgedmin	discrete finite automaton	17:55
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mgedmin	probably not worth it	17:55
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mgedmin	the idea is that you process each input character exactly once	17:56
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pupnik	well i think i described it sufficiently - as each character appears on terminal, you either have a match in a child node or you exit the search with "new url found"	17:56
* mgedmin has a sense of deja vu about this conversation		17:56
pupnik	oh, maybe this is an example of that	17:56
mgedmin	did I say discrete? gaah, I meant deterministic	17:57
pupnik	sorry fatal^ no clue	17:57
mgedmin	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterministic_finite-state_machine	17:57
mgedmin	the original idea for regexes was to compile them to DFAs for very fast pattern matching	17:57
fatal^	pupnik: ok :/	17:58
pupnik	oh!	17:58
mgedmin	then people started extending regexp dialects with things like backreferences, they became non-regular, and impossible to process with DFAs	17:58
pupnik	thank you for connecting two things in my brain	17:58
pupnik	xterm probably already implements this or more general thing	17:59
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mgedmin	actually, yes, it has to, for the purposes of highlighting the urls	18:00
mgedmin	s/highlighting/underlining/	18:00
infobot	mgedmin meant: actually, yes, it has to, for the purposes of underlining the urls	18:00
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pupnik	if i look my brain will start hurting, i know it	18:01
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* pupnik runs away and starts cleaning		18:01
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pupnik	but this annoys me, why do we give names to things like this (DFA) and teach them as a solution, when anyone who knows how to think about data structures should come up with it as the solution him/herself?	18:04
mgedmin	so they don't waste time coming up with the solution that somebody else already came up with?	18:04
mgedmin	dunno, you're asking me to justify science to you	18:05
pupnik	i know the answers, just wish people thought about non wasteful data structures and algorithms more	18:05
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* mgedmin jus wishes people thought		18:06
pupnik	people operate differently too.	18:07
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fatal^	riddlebox: I noticed my tracks didn't contain any time tags either, which means they get rejected by openstreetmap.org ..... which version are you using? I've built the freemantle git branch of maemo-mapper which only seems to fetch the very basic information from liblocation ....	18:08
* GeneralAntilles hits pupnik for using PC pronouns.		18:08
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* pupnik hits ppl for using python and ruby and javascript		18:10
pupnik	fight!	18:11
* sevard winds up his python and whips pupnik		18:11
mgedmin	ouch!	18:11
sevard	wapatachhaaa!	18:11
* pupnik puts sevard's python in a C-clamp		18:12
* ccooke forbids pupnik from using any language but befunge, intercal and circuit :-)		18:12
* sevard brainfucks pupnik in a dark alley		18:13
sevard	:o	18:13
* Meizirkki hides ruby before anything bad happens		18:13
pupnik	awll ttfn	18:13
\|R	haha	18:14
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Khertan	GOTO ++ !	18:18
Khertan	http://www.gotopp.org//	18:19
timeless_mbp	mgedmin, GeneralAntilles , et al: ok, new localization package up	18:21
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timeless_mbp	if you already have the repo enabled, you should get the typical "update available" notice	18:22
timeless_mbp	if not, you're encouraged to give it a try :)	18:22
timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N810: fingerable zenity is really important to me :)	18:22
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* timeless_mbp pokes asedeno_work		18:24
* timeless_mbp sighs		18:24
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* timeless_mbp missed		18:24
* timeless_mbp pokes aSIMULAtor		18:24
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lardman	aargh, bloody autofocus, or lack thereof	18:30
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fiferboy	Does anyone know of an app with source available that uses tracker?	18:32
fiferboy	Tracker documentation is... non-existant	18:32
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timeless_mbp	heh	18:32
timeless_mbp	does the nautilus tracker search thing count?	18:32
suihkulokki	fiferboy: there is rygel which uses tracker at least	18:33
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fiferboy	suihkulokki: Thanks, I forgot I could look at non-maemo applications ^_^	18:34
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fiferboy	timeless_mbp: I think nautilus would be a bit more than I need, especially since it has Beagle in it too	18:35
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mgedmin	tracker comes with a gui search tool	18:35
mgedmin	and some command-line tools that I never understood	18:35
iDialekt	Wow I'm reading about symbian users' thoughts on the iPhone. Some of the posts sound completely inexperienced.	18:36
timeless_mbp	iDialekt: shocking!	18:36
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iDialekt	It's just surprising. The symbian ui, while capable,.. Feels like a 90's OS. Not saying which os can do more but most of the claims are feeble and show clearly that one has never properly used the competing device	18:38
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fiferboy	mgedmin: I don't think the gui tool is availabe on maemo yet, is it?	18:39
mgedmin	no, I'm pretty certain it's not	18:39
mgedmin	neither is nautilus	18:39
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iDialekt	I hope I get a better experience with the n900 soon.	18:40
iDialekt	The one I had didn't feel ready for primetime yet	18:40
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mgedmin	is my n900 warm because it was in my pocket, or because I left google reader open and polling for news with javascript?	18:41
timeless_mbp	heh	18:41
* GeneralAntilles bets on polling.		18:42
iDialekt	Sup GeneralAntilles .. Your nick is becoming a familiar if not household name	18:44
* mgedmin byes		18:44
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kkito	hello, i am unable to run opengl-es2 apps under scratchbox. Anybody knows how to do that?	18:48
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fiferboy	kkito: You can't run armel binaries in scratchbox in the latest SDK (at least, the maemo desktop portions of the gui don't start)	18:50
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fiferboy	kkito: And I don't think opengl-es2 is available for x86 in the SDK, I beleive it is opengl desktop that is available	18:51
fiferboy	(at least when building Qt with opengl that is the case)	18:51
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GeneralAntilles	iDialekt, I am slowly popping up everywhere. g	18:51
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* crashanddie moans at new guy hired above me who needs to feel powerful		18:53
kkito	fiferboy, I am porting a opengl-es2 game to maemo, but i need to run/debug it. Then it is not possible without the real device?	18:54
AstralStorm	hey	18:55
iDialekt	Lol	18:55
AstralStorm	has anyone tried building icedtea for n8x0	18:55
AstralStorm	(and maybe n900)	18:55
fiferboy	kkito: As I understand it the only way to build against opengl-es2 is to build for armel. And the only way to run armel is on a device.	18:55
AstralStorm	or other Java VM.	18:55
AstralStorm	fiferboy: wrong	18:55
AstralStorm	you can run armel in qemu-arm	18:56
fiferboy	kkito: You could compile for armel and ask someone with a device to test for you, but this becomes a real pain for debuging	18:56
AstralStorm	:)	18:56
AstralStorm	(with mediocre results)	18:56
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, show him your Nokia prototype! That'll put 'im in his place!	18:56
fiferboy	AstralStorm: You can't start he maemo portions of the SDK in armel, though, so depending on the package it might not work at all	18:56
AstralStorm	sure you can.	18:56
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, I'd rather show him my job offer from Nokia	18:56
AstralStorm	I did that back in the past.	18:56
GeneralAntilles	Haha	18:56
kkito	fiferboy, i did it and yes is a pain, for me and for my friend...	18:57
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, but that would be fraud, considering they didn't make me one	18:57
AstralStorm	what you can't start is the hardware part	18:57
fiferboy	AstralStorm: With what SDK? Since beta 2 (at least) armel doesn't start in scratchbox	18:57
AstralStorm	but most of that uses dbus, so needs no testing	18:57
AstralStorm	ditch scratchbox	18:57
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: It's only fraud if you use it to benefit yourself.	18:57
SpeedEvil	:)	18:57
AstralStorm	use a better environment	18:57
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AstralStorm	I'm talking about actual qemu-arm	18:57
AstralStorm	the one used for Poky Linux.	18:57
SpeedEvil	qemu-arm would still not emulate the 3d hardware	18:58
AstralStorm	that's true.	18:58
AstralStorm	;>	18:58
* GeneralAntilles wishes everything about maemo.org weren't so mindbendingly slow.		18:58
SpeedEvil	so the lib would bomb out	18:58
AstralStorm	unless someone writes it	18:58
AstralStorm	so, do that ;p	18:58
GeneralAntilles	Just, for once, can we please have a reasonably responsive website? :(	18:58
jysky	why is it that maemo sdk environment is so crappy, i always knew that nokia is just big fuck up with software but that bad?!	18:58
AstralStorm	jysky: because of budget and time cuts ;p	18:59
Robot101	jysky: you're new to embedded development?	18:59
AstralStorm	somebody didn't get paid enough	18:59
Robot101	the SDK is always shit	18:59
iDialekt	Lol	18:59
AstralStorm	s/always/usually/	18:59
Robot101	did you try symbian development? :P	18:59
AstralStorm	some are very nice	18:59
jysky	Robot101, no, not really. i've don atmel development	18:59
AstralStorm	Symbian is nokia too	18:59
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AstralStorm	try the iPhone SDK ;p	18:59
jysky	but that's for kids ;)	19:00
jysky	too easy	19:00
Robot101	I did, but it only made iPhone apps. rubbish! :P	19:00
AstralStorm	or the one for Motorolas	19:00
AstralStorm	(ugh otherwise, but the sdk is neat)	19:00
AstralStorm	or the friggin android SDK	19:01
AstralStorm	:>	19:01
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GeneralAntilles	It shouldn't take 3 minutes to login and thumb a package. . . .	19:01
AstralStorm	GeneralAntilles: try Mer maybe?	19:02
GeneralAntilles	Um?	19:02
AstralStorm	that one is quick, but still uses scratchbox crud	19:02
AstralStorm	so, yeah.	19:02
AstralStorm	not much better	19:02
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GeneralAntilles	This is http://maemo.org, not sure what this has to do with Mer or Maemo. . . .	19:03
AstralStorm	that's Maemo.	19:03
Mousey	those are Maemo	19:03
AstralStorm	maemo.org/wiki/Mer	19:03
GeneralAntilles	AstralStorm, really don't get what you think I'm talking about here.	19:03
Meizirkki	AstralStorm, wiki.maemo.org/Mer	19:03
AstralStorm	yes ;p	19:03
AstralStorm	my bad	19:03
GeneralAntilles	AstralStorm, and, yes, I know about Mer.	19:04
GeneralAntilles	I ran a friggin Mer booth at FLS this weekend. :)	19:04
* GeneralAntilles throws rocks at tekojo.		19:04
AstralStorm	GeneralAntilles: it is win, isn't it	19:05
AstralStorm	just needs some 10 extra developers	19:05
Stskeeps	oi, we dont use scratchbox in mer	19:05
AstralStorm	or 1k man-hours	19:05
AstralStorm	I noticed	19:05
Stskeeps	i take offense to that	19:05
AstralStorm	you did, but now it's all OBS	19:05
AstralStorm	:D	19:05
AstralStorm	which is win	19:05
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GeneralAntilles	~60 seconds of staring at a spinning progress circle and still no thumb.	19:05
AstralStorm	GeneralAntilles: have a cup of tea in the meantime	19:06
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: if you want slow	19:06
timeless_mbp	try using the Flag app once you install my package :)	19:06
timeless_mbp	but at least it gives you progress indicators :)	19:06
timeless_mbp	a shiny progress meter :)	19:06
GeneralAntilles	It's no wonder nobody wants to rate Extras-testing stuff.	19:06
GeneralAntilles	Because you CAN'T!	19:06
timeless_mbp	heh	19:06
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fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: Rate my extras-testing stuff	19:07
lcuk	hi, i have installed "packagerate" application, and its close to whats needed for on device rating and voting for with the maemo packages but needs fremantle updating and polishing	19:07
* timeless_mbp grovels for testers		19:07
GeneralAntilles	I've been trying to give one thumbs up to VGBA for 12 minutes now.	19:07
GeneralAntilles	Still staring at a spinning circle	19:07
GeneralAntilles	Ah, looks like it timed out.	19:07
GeneralAntilles	3rd time's the charm.	19:07
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Xisdibik_	GeneralAntilles: im crossing my fingers for you	19:08
GeneralAntilles	This is ridiculous, we need servers or this is going to be 2007 all over again.	19:08
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GeneralAntilles	That's a hit this platform can't afford.	19:08
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timeless_mbp	lcuk: i'm trying to install packagerate	19:09
timeless_mbp	but i want someone to play w/ my package ;)	19:09
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: btw...	19:10
timeless_mbp	"I understand and agree." => "Yeah, right."	19:10
timeless_mbp	sound ok? :)	19:10
GeneralAntilles	Sounds great.	19:10
GeneralAntilles	Hopefully qwerty12 will have a patched h-a-m that disables it entirely soon, anyway.	19:10
timeless_mbp	so... Most of my Add/Remove app now talks about Add/Remove-ing stuff	19:11
timeless_mbp	should the actual Install dialog also change from "Install" to "Add" ?	19:11
timeless_mbp	"The package you are about to install is not provided by Nokia. "	19:12
timeless_mbp	"Packages from untrusted sources may include malware that can "	19:12
timeless_mbp	"cause financial damage, access your stored data, or harm the "	19:12
timeless_mbp	"device. The package may also be subject to 3rd party rights and "	19:12
timeless_mbp	"license terms.\n"	19:12
timeless_mbp	"Installation will be at your own risk."	19:12
timeless_mbp	... that's the current text in enus1 ....	19:12
* timeless_mbp wonders which idiot decided to use a small font size for the text		19:12
ShadowJK	The "browser tops itself" stuff on bugzilla is kinda chaotic...	19:13
timeless_mbp	I still like my diablo string text	19:13
timeless_mbp	it was something like "Since this software isn't from Nokia, it might actually work"	19:13
timeless_mbp	How about...	19:13
timeless_mbp	"This 3rd party package might actually work, or it might embarrass you, or cause you financial harm."	19:14
* GeneralAntilles files a blocker out of spite.		19:14
GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, indeed.	19:14
* timeless_mbp still doesn't quite understand what triggers that		19:15
timeless_mbp	anyone have comments about my proposed text?	19:15
GeneralAntilles	At least it's not as bad as it was on Diablo.	19:15
ShadowJK	btw, on N8x0, if you open a new window in browser (Either opening link from browser, or opening link from another app), and if you switch away from the browser BEFORE it has written the title bar (you can see the titlebar changing in the task switcher), then it's much less likely that it tops itself later.	19:15
riddlebox	fatal^, I am using whatever is in the n810 repos, sorry so late, had to get the dogs from the kennel	19:15
GeneralAntilles	Wow, now I've managed to give VGBA two thumbs up.	19:16
AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, are you as tired as I am?	19:16
GeneralAntilles	Oh wait, three!	19:16
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, I slept a LOT last night, so I'm mostly back up to speed.	19:16
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, but, yeah, that was a long weekend.	19:16
AndrewFBlack	I didn't get home until 11pm last night	19:17
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, I beep at you as we were leaving and you guys were loading up the car.	19:17
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GeneralAntilles	Your father-in-law (?) gave me a dirty look but you didn't look up. :P	19:17
GeneralAntilles	s/beep/beeped/	19:17
ShadowJK	I mostly avoid the topping behaviour of microb now by activating the task switcher, waiting for the title bar to change, and then switching back to whatever I was doing before I wanted to load a page in the background	19:17
AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, lol he didn't know how you where and he was having bad day lol	19:17
GeneralAntilles	I got back around 5.	19:17
AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, if it wasn' for them paying for my hotel I would not have brought them	19:18
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	19:18
lcuk	andre__, ok :$	19:18
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, congrats, VGBA now qualifies for Extras. :P http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/vgba/3.6.5-2/	19:18
AndrewFBlack	My mother in law can't understand why I would work on a project that I don't make any money off of	19:19
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GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, hehe, it's that mentality that's currently holding back open source. ;)	19:19
crashanddie	N900 night mode fail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBu38IndI5I	19:20
AndrewFBlack	Well she can't even check her own email she has no idea what open source is, I was trying to explain what the Sheevaplug I got wasand I justgave up	19:20
GeneralAntilles	Haha	19:20
crashanddie	Sheevaplug sounds like an Indian religious dildo	19:21
GeneralAntilles	Dunno about you, but the free ham sandwiches are a big part of why _I_ do it. :D	19:21
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GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, looks like Blair Witch	19:22
AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, you got Ham mine what turkey I got robbed	19:22
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GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, haha, I would've had a turkey but they were out.	19:22
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, johnx enlightened me to the fact that the crazy guy with the camera was Roblimo from /. :D	19:24
AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, When I walked out Brian congradulated me on winning the sheevaplug I just smiled and said thanks.	19:24
AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, the guys who I couldn't figure out what post of mine he replied to	19:24
GeneralAntilles	jjackowski?	19:25
AndrewFBlack	yeah is that who your talking about?	19:25
GeneralAntilles	Nah, the guy with the video camera.	19:25
AndrewFBlack	ohh yeah that guy is was nuts	19:25
GeneralAntilles	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roblimo	19:26
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AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, wow and you pissed him off lol	19:26
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, I got the Ogg lecture.	19:27
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AndrewFBlack	Who was that guy who talked to you for like an hour	19:27
GeneralAntilles	Eric Noble	19:28
GeneralAntilles	No idea who he is.	19:28
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GeneralAntilles	He went off on some crazy shit about needing government regulation and taxes for any new technology to be adopted.	19:28
timeless_mbp	a coworker had a picture of him open today	19:28
timeless_mbp	he seemed to think the guy's ok	19:28
* timeless_mbp shrugs		19:28
GeneralAntilles	"We have to make gas $6 a gallon!"	19:29
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, Roblimo? Yeah, he was great.	19:29
timeless_mbp	no eric noble	19:29
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GeneralAntilles	Which Eric Noble, though?	19:29
AndrewFBlack	there was some real strange people there	19:29
timeless_mbp	there's more than one?	19:29
* timeless_mbp remembers roblimo from circa 2001		19:30
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, seems like it.	19:30
GeneralAntilles	http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/eric/noble	19:30
AndrewFBlack	I still can't believe atlantic.net had someone there who didn't even know what linux was	19:30
timeless_mbp	bah, no pictures	19:30
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* SpeedEvil wishes for $6 gasoline.		19:30
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, 50s/60s, mostly gray hair, short beard.	19:31
* timeless_mbp gives up		19:31
SpeedEvil	(as it's rather more than that now)	19:31
GeneralAntilles	Ah, think it's this Eric Noble: http://www.meetup.com/JaxPHP-JaxWeb/members/4016762/	19:31
AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, that was him	19:32
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timeless_mbp	probably	19:33
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AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, Im thinking Sheevaplug + 7inch USB Touch Screen + Mer + Battery Pack would be a cool toy lol	19:34
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, make a great kitchen computer.	19:35
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AndrewFBlack	GeneralAntilles, tempted to make a Carputer out of it	19:35
riddlebox	hrmm using maemo-mapper and I have a huge track from this weekend, but it doesnt upload the whole track	19:35
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, or that.	19:36
* timeless_mbp frowns		19:36
timeless_mbp	so... anyone else w/ an n900 and time to use a translation?	19:36
timeless_mbp	i really really need feedback :)	19:36
SpeedEvil	AndrewFBlack: see http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/mini2440-S3C2440-ARM9-Board-3-5-TFT-LCD-Touch-Screen_W0QQitemZ120468760959QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0c7f697f	19:36
* AndrewFBlack is tempted to run home and see if n900 is there yet		19:37
SpeedEvil	(larger screens are available)	19:37
timeless_mbp	AndrewFBlack: ups tracking? :)	19:37
GeneralAntilles	arm9 is gonna be a bit painful for Maemo 5.	19:37
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, Quim'n'Co are tool cool for tracking number.	19:37
GeneralAntilles	s	19:37
AndrewFBlack	timeless_mbp, quim didn't give me the tracking number and I cna't get ahold of him	19:38
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timeless_mbp	AndrewFBlack: i could send him an sms if you wanted...	19:38
AndrewFBlack	timeless_mbp, sure	19:38
AndrewFBlack	SpeedEvil, looks nice but not as fun as building it myself	19:39
AndrewFBlack	timeless_mbp, Just say I'm wanting my tracking number to see where its at right now	19:39
AndrewFBlack	SpeedEvil, sheevaplug is about twce as fast also	19:39
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SpeedEvil	And: yes, it is.	19:40
SpeedEvil	AndrewFBlack: I'm considering the above to repair my microwave - the existing LCD is broken.	19:41
timeless_mbp	sms sent	19:41
timeless_mbp	odd	19:41
AndrewFBlack	SpeedEvil, thas one hell of a microwave lcd	19:41
SpeedEvil	And add some features. (time-lapse video of cooked items for bread rising, ...)	19:41
timeless_mbp	i installed a package and now i'm seeing a checking for updates, please wait message	19:41
AndrewFBlack	timeless_mbp, thanks	19:41
timeless_mbp	but my background has the SMS i just sent, not ham	19:41
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lcuk	time for the world to end, LHC is coming back online	19:43
timeless_mbp	um... packagerate has issues in Fremantle	19:44
timeless_mbp	it makes MicroB kerning look good	19:44
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* AndrewFBlack waits for tracking number		19:46
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, PackageRate has issues in Diablo.	19:49
timeless_mbp	heh	19:50
* timeless_mbp sighs		19:50
timeless_mbp	an end user reported never finding the soft power off button	19:50
timeless_mbp	(n900)	19:50
* ShadowJK should run some mplayer+mencoder benchmark on sheevaplug		19:51
timeless_mbp	is the rating done w/ my wiki password, my bugzilla password, my garage password, the talk password i don't have, or something else?	19:52
GeneralAntilles	Should be Garage	19:55
GeneralAntilles	/maemo.org	19:55
GeneralAntilles	since that's what's used for Downloads.	19:55
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fatal^	riddlebox: ok... then I don't know your problem.... I debugged my lacking timestamps (which might not be the only required tag missing) to be related to the new GPS code for liblocation in maemo-mapper ... http://fatal.se/tmp/maemo/mm-fremantle-pos_time.diff .... this is only useful on top of the fremantle branch of maemo-mapper git though.	19:58
timeless	you didn't mention the part about packagerate crashing on fremantle...	20:00
anidel	I had to reply to people stating how easy is to use N900 as a modem for Mac: http://anidel.blogspot.com/2009/10/n900-as-modem-for-ubuntu-910.html	20:01
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genewitch	how-to ringtone?	20:09
lcuk	timeless, the packagerate principle is right, the implementation needs work	20:09
lcuk	its the old style, but pretty much the sort of thing thats needed to link up with -testing	20:09
genewitch	searching maemo.org doesn't yield any good results on "ringtone" or "ringtones"	20:10
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GeneralAntilles	genewitch, Google should, though. ;)	20:13
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genewitch	GeneralAntilles: it didn't.	20:14
genewitch	hence me coming in here	20:14
genewitch	all google turned up is "there should be a site for the n900 ringtones"	20:14
GeneralAntilles	Why does it matter if they're for N900?	20:14
GeneralAntilles	Just pick a wav/mp3/mp4/whatever.	20:15
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AndrewFBlack	My ringtone will be GeneralAntilles be interviewed by Roblimo	20:16
genewitch	GeneralAntilles: well, for a start it only sees the wav file in the directory, not the mp3. Secondly, picking the wav file comes back with "unsupported ring tone format"	20:16
GeneralAntilles	lol	20:16
GeneralAntilles	I suspect I looked very shifty eyed	20:16
GeneralAntilles	Crazy Asian dude staring lasers through my forehead was very distracting.	20:16
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wiretapped	AndrewFBlack: link?	20:16
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AndrewFBlack	wiretapped, I'm not sure if Roblimo posted it anywhere I just know he recorded it	20:17
AndrewFBlack	You can see me in the background trying to look busy lol	20:17
genewitch	so there's no spec page for the format the ringtones have to be in?	20:17
wiretapped	genewitch: ringtones are standard wav files	20:17
wiretapped	they just need to be signed	20:17
GeneralAntilles	genewitch, I haven't had anything that hasn't worked so far.	20:18
wiretapped	you can purchase a key from nokia	20:18
timeless_mbp	?	20:18
timeless_mbp	afaik the n900 just uses normal .wav files...	20:18
genewitch	GeneralAntilles: mplayer plays the wav; unsupported ringtone format in the sound control panel.	20:19
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timeless_mbp	genewitch: does the normal media player play it?	20:19
genewitch	which	20:19
genewitch	oh , let me check	20:19
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* timeless_mbp sighs		20:20
genewitch	yeah it's such a drag wanting something as simple as a ringtone to work properly and having people treat you like an idiot	20:21
genewitch	i also sigh.	20:21
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timeless_mbp	well, the fact that you found the default media player so unusable that you immediately forgot about it	20:21
timeless_mbp	says something about the quality of it	20:21
timeless_mbp	both in features and bling/wow	20:21
genewitch	media player says unsupported codec	20:22
wiretapped	try the file command?	20:22
timeless_mbp	ok... so...	20:22
wiretapped	or, what does mplayer say about your wav?	20:22
timeless_mbp	media player and the other thing use the same gstreamer backend	20:22
genewitch	stereo 8000hz wav	20:22
timeless_mbp	which means there's something "interesting" about it	20:22
timeless_mbp	iirc there are gstreamer command line tools around	20:23
wiretapped	8khz might be the problem	20:23
timeless_mbp	not sure if they're installed by default or if you have to install them from a repo	20:23
genewitch	timeless_mbp: so the answer is "whatever wav file the media player can play is a valid ringtone" not "mp3/mp4/wav" and "any normal wav"	20:23
genewitch	i just wanted a spec sheet	20:23
genewitch	i gathered it wasn't a valid format when the control panel said "unsupported"	20:23
timeless_mbp	well	20:24
timeless_mbp	i said it uses normal wav files	20:24
timeless_mbp	i didn't say it supported them :)	20:24
timeless_mbp	from what i've heard, what it actually does is take the file you give it, convert it into a very boring wav format	20:25
timeless_mbp	and then plays that	20:25
timeless_mbp	at least under certain circumstances	20:25
GeneralAntilles	The default ringtones are AAC, actually.	20:25
timeless_mbp	so that it doesn't have to worry about spending time decoding when it's supposed to do work	20:25
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timeless_mbp	but...	20:25
timeless_mbp	wav is really just a container	20:25
timeless_mbp	i could probably stuff a jpeg into a wave file if i tried hard enough :)	20:26
genewitch	yeah, i'll have to edit it all on the PC	20:26
genewitch	i hate reading man pages on the nokia :-p	20:26
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timeless_mbp	not a problem, by default we strip man pages :)	20:26
genewitch	i think maybe you're right, man isn't even there	20:27
Flandry	where would i find information on how to make an installed app show an icon in maemo? I see nothing about it in the packaging wiki	20:27
timeless_mbp	Flandry: i probe GAN	20:27
timeless_mbp	it works for me :)	20:27
timeless_mbp	somewhere you'll find that it's basically a png run through uue	20:28
Flandry	sorry, what?	20:28
timeless_mbp	what => who => GeneralAntilles	20:28
timeless_mbp	... with certain dimensions which vary depending on the os version	20:28
Flandry	oh, i include the uucoded icon in the control file	20:28
Flandry	48x48	20:28
Flandry	is that all it should take?	20:28
GeneralAntilles	Yes	20:28
Flandry	huh	20:28
GeneralAntilles	For the application manager, anyway.	20:29
GeneralAntilles	The application menu is controlled by the .desktop file.	20:29
Flandry	ohhhh	20:29
Flandry	i see it in the app manager now that i look	20:29
Flandry	awesome	20:29
Flandry	so how do i learn about the .desktop file?	20:29
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GeneralAntilles	Think the official docs contain some info.	20:30
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GeneralAntilles	Although historically it's just been badly documented.	20:30
GeneralAntilles	My recommendation is to just copy from another application's .desktop.	20:30
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timeless_mbp	you could try to fix wiki docs :)	20:31
Flandry	that's an uphill battle :D	20:31
timeless_mbp	someone might thank you	20:31
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Flandry	i fixed the place where the sdk install linked to the beta...	20:31
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Flandry	so grab a source package and look at the .desktop in the debian dir?	20:32
timeless_mbp	hrm	20:32
timeless_mbp	did someone send gettext to extras-devel?	20:32
timeless_mbp	wtf	20:33
timeless_mbp	http://maemo.org/downloads/search/application/	20:33
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timeless_mbp	clicking on "Maemo 5" doesn't cause it to turn orange	20:33
GAN900	timeless_mbp, can you find MishaS at some point and ask about Fremantle FBReader. It's a bit alpha for a supposed Fremantle Star.	20:33
timeless_mbp	GAN900: poke me tomorrow "morning"	20:33
timeless_mbp	(before 4pm finnish local time)	20:33
Flandry	that's for sure	20:34
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Flandry	Starting browser daemon: browserd	20:34
Flandry	/usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 302: 20993 Aborted /usr/bin/hildon-home	20:34
Flandry	/usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 302: 21010 Segmentation fault (core dumped) $TRACKER	20:34
Flandry	/usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 302: 21012 Aborted (core dumped) mafw-dbus-wrapper /usr/lib/mafw-plugin/mafw-tracker-source.so	20:34
Flandry	[sbox-F	20:34
Flandry	doh	20:34
Flandry	is that something i should worry about	20:35
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* timeless_mbp frowns		20:35
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timeless_mbp	ok... so um	20:41
timeless_mbp	someone want to remind me how to upload a package to extras? :)	20:41
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Flandry	there's the extras upload tool if you want to use the browser	20:42
Flandry	that's the only way i've tried	20:42
Flandry	http://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format <--chinook vintage	20:42
Flandry	ha	20:42
Corsac	timeless_mbp: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras ? :)	20:42
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* timeless_mbp pokes maemo.org with a stick		20:44
timeless_mbp	ok... so um	20:44
timeless_mbp	how do i get a .changes file?	20:45
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anidel	if you dpkg-buildpackage it, you should have it already	20:46
anidel	I use: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us -sa -D	20:46
anidel	dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us -sa -D	20:46
anidel	uops	20:46
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timeless_mbp	what if i find a deb in another repository	20:53
timeless_mbp	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_sdk_free_armel/gettext/0.17-4maemo1+0m5/	20:53
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Firebird	intersting, my game jumped 300 downloads between yesterday and today	20:54
AndrewFBlack	timeless_mbp, no reply from quim?	20:54
timeless_mbp	nope	20:54
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AndrewFBlack	I wonder what time it is there lol he might be in bed	20:54
timeless_mbp	it's 9pm here	20:54
timeless_mbp	we just ate dinner @work	20:54
timeless_mbp	not sure where he is	20:54
timeless_mbp	but he's generally not east of here	20:55
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AndrewFBlack	where are you?	20:55
timeless_mbp	HEL	20:55
AndrewFBlack	lol	20:55
Flandry	some kind of three-character localization of names?	20:55
Flandry	timeless, make sure you use the right buildpackage options	20:56
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Flandry	the default ones don't work as i learned...	20:56
timeless_mbp	Flandry: airport code	20:56
Flandry	oh i thought you meant somewhere much warmer...	20:56
timeless_mbp	well, the computers in this room keep us toasty	20:57
timeless_mbp	we counted cores last week	20:57
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pupnik	heh being warmed by the byproduct of actual information processing	21:04
pupnik	that's kind of a unique position	21:04
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lcuk	pupnik, its not unique lol, i used to warm hands on crt monitors and rest feet on the top of computer	21:07
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pupnik	you probably were coding visual basic apps on a PIV	21:07
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lcuk	nahh playing half life n portal and UT and chattin with mates most likely	21:08
pupnik	:)	21:08
pupnik	i cant feel any heat on n810	21:08
pupnik	it is kind of otherworldly to a pc guy	21:09
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lcuk	pupnik, my 810 gets warm when charging	21:09
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pupnik	speaking of...	21:13
keesj	how do i import all my contacts from google?	21:17
keesj	and should mailfor exchange work with exchange servers?	21:18
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riddlebox	anyone got an extra stylus for their n810?	21:21
doladowanie	http://darmowe-doladowanie.org/index.php?c=viral&m=index&id=1ab8c7f36a6ba0e393e2e2af4bfc8211	21:21
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riddlebox	wink wink	21:21
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SpeedEvil	ebay!	21:26
SpeedEvil	http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N810-Internet-Tablet-Replacement-Stylus_W0QQitemZ170391733444QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item27ac2384c4	21:27
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johnsq	Hi	21:27
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hrw	re	21:29
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bulfaiter	anyone here uses esbox to develop for maemo5?	21:32
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pablo_	in scratchbox . its possible see How rootstrap is used...	21:35
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kkito	there are any possibility to get a n900 development device, devkit or something?	21:40
timeless_mbp	if you had enough karma, nokia sent an invite for a dev program	21:41
timeless_mbp	i think there are ways for you to propose things you want to do for which you'd need a device	21:42
lcuk	kkito, there is a downloadable devkit and all info here: http://maemo.org/development/	21:42
kkito	i dont know what karma is :)	21:42
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timeless_mbp	kudos?	21:42
timeless_mbp	recognition of value within a community	21:42
kkito	lcuk, i need a device. I have alredy the sdk but i am unable to debug an opengl-es2 game that i am developing for the n900	21:42
lcuk	kkito, in the short term, post on talk.maemo.org and get testers involved?	21:43
AndrewFBlack	kkito my n900 is in the mail to me now if you need someone to test t for you I will	21:44
Flandry	my app works ok in sdk when launched from shell, fails with sound problem from icon oO	21:44
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lcuk	kkito, make a thread about it and shows screenshots and links to source and stuff and talk about how to put it onto maemo.org devel repository	21:45
kkito	lcuk, AndrewFBlack , thx but i need a device to debug myself, because right now the game doesnt run on a real device ( i friend thar have an n900 test it), and is something that should be debugged	21:45
AndrewFBlack	kkito, ok	21:46
lcuk	kkito, add debug info as printfs, send to friend, let him do it	21:46
lcuk	or, invite friend round with beer	21:46
timeless_mbp	kkito: fwiw, forumnokia historically has had loaner programs of various sorts	21:46
keesj	strace is also good!	21:46
kkito	anyways the game will not be free at all, and no opensource... I want to release a demo and a commercial version...	21:47
kkito	will be cheap... but no free	21:48
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timeless_mbp	kkito: wait for devices to reach stores and pick one up....	21:48
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timeless_mbp	either that, or look into forum nokia	21:48
timeless_mbp	that's the more commercial oriented end of things	21:49
kkito	timeless_mbp, i have reserved one device on the nokia store	21:49
timeless_mbp	http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149128	21:49
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kkito	but i want to release the game at the same date that nokia n900 will be ship	21:49
timeless_mbp	indicates there still is a loaner program	21:49
hrw	normally I would say that beagleboard can be probably used as test device. but I prefer to not support non-free software	21:49
keesj	kkito: interesting. you probably can develop on the beagleboard	21:49
keesj	:p	21:50
timeless_mbp	kkito: anyway	21:50
timeless_mbp	this channel is mostly oriented toward open source advocates	21:50
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timeless_mbp	you've gotten the best answers they can offer	21:50
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timeless_mbp	asking further is likely to get less positive answers	21:50
kkito	i know :) thx everyone	21:51
timeless_mbp	as a commercial developer, forum nokia is the official answer	21:51
kkito	timeless_mbp, thx :)	21:51
timeless_mbp	i'm not sure if they have devices for loan, but if they get inquiries, they'll probably figure it out	21:51
timeless_mbp	the other thing you could do is try to contact the maemo marketing team to see if you can give them a pitch	21:51
timeless_mbp	they might manage to find a device	21:51
* timeless_mbp would go w/ FN		21:51
kkito	timeless_mbp, thx very much	21:52
timeless_mbp	good luck	21:52
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timeless_mbp	ok... where the heck is dput?	21:54
timeless_mbp	i installed devscripts	21:55
timeless_mbp	ii devscripts 2.10.35maemo1	21:55
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mikkov__	install dput too	21:58
timeless_mbp	mikkov_: how?	21:58
mikkov__	apt-get install dput?	21:58
timeless_mbp	apt-get install dput	21:58
timeless_mbp	Package dput is not available, ...	21:58
mikkov__	needs extras-devel	21:58
mikkov__	or are you in scratchbox?	21:58
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timeless_mbp	i'm in Mer	21:59
mikkov__	then forget my instructions ;)	21:59
timeless_mbp	your instructions seem to work	22:00
timeless_mbp	um	22:00
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timeless_mbp	can i use ~/.dput.cf ?	22:01
timeless_mbp	i don't like being root	22:01
mikkov__	hmm, never tried that	22:01
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timeless_mbp	i'm not saying it exists	22:01
timeless_mbp	merely that there should be something like it	22:02
timeless_mbp	and it'd be nice if you suggested it :)	22:02
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mikkov__	I have always used /etc/dput.cf :)	22:02
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mikkov__	# otherwise, read /etc/dput.cf then ~/.dput.cf	22:04
* timeless_mbp grumbles		22:04
timeless_mbp	libexpat1-dev = 1.95.8-5maemo1+0m5	22:04
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timeless_mbp	libexpat1 = 2.0.1-4	22:04
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bulfaiter	ok: so I guess noone uses esbox. How do you develop for maemo? Vim? Emacs?	22:06
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johnsq	bulfaiter: is there somerhing else?	22:06
bulfaiter	i'm asking :)	22:06
bulfaiter	I'd like to have an IDE	22:06
bulfaiter	i'm more used to those things	22:06
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timeless_mbp	bulfaiter: there's an eclipse system somewhere	22:07
johnsq	bulfaiter: unix is editor + make = no gui	22:07
bulfaiter	timeless_mbp, yeah, esbox	22:07
timeless_mbp	personally i use vi/notepad/xcode + Mer	22:07
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bulfaiter	and how do you autocomplete code?	22:07
bulfaiter	asuming that you do	22:07
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timeless_mbp	autocomplete?	22:08
hardaker	bulfaiter: emacs + meta-/ and templates ;-)	22:08
bulfaiter	mmm	22:08
johnsq	bulfaiter: vim/emacs supports such things. write short names and no 1page long functions names	22:08
timeless_mbp	that's what fingers are for	22:08
timeless_mbp	muscle memory	22:08
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bulfaiter	hardaker: and does emacs index .h headers?	22:08
hardaker	you mean auto-create them?	22:09
bulfaiter	timeless_mbp: somewhere, productivity goddess cry	22:09
hardaker	no	22:09
hardaker	(well, it quite possibly can but I don't use a package that makes it do that)	22:09
bulfaiter	no, i mean: read / parse headers	22:09
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bulfaiter	so it can "guess" what you want to type	22:09
hardaker	read and parse for what purpose exactyl (otherwise I'll say "yes")	22:09
bulfaiter	mmm	22:09
bulfaiter	i don't know if you ever used netbeans for c/c+	22:10
johnsq	bulfaiter: I write my with copy & paste, most functions i need, i have already written	22:10
crashanddie	oh wow, look at that, a bunch of noobies discussing :)	22:10
bulfaiter	it reads/indexes your code, so you can autocomplet just like java	22:10
crashanddie	Look GeneralAntilles, the new generation has arrived, look how beautiful our toddlers are!	22:10
* timeless_mbp has used netbeans		22:10
timeless_mbp	and a bunch of others	22:10
bulfaiter	¬¬	22:10
timeless_mbp	they're useful at times	22:10
timeless_mbp	but...	22:10
hardaker	bulfaiter: yes, it'll do that.	22:10
bulfaiter	hardaker: :), ok, I'll do some research	22:11
* timeless_mbp actually worked on netbeans for a bit		22:11
* timeless_mbp remembers forte		22:11
timeless_mbp	and forte for java	22:11
timeless_mbp	and the mess of renamings	22:11
hardaker	bulfaiter: it's a generic completion. If you run irc inside of emacs and then type bulf meta-/ in your code it'll autocomplete to bulfaiter :-)	22:12
bulfaiter	well, netbeans refactor for c++ and java works quite well right now	22:12
johnsq	bulfaiter: but better than completion is Reactive Keyboard.	22:12
bulfaiter	reactive keyboard?	22:12
johnsq	bulfaiter: http://freshmeat.net/projects/rk	22:12
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johnsq	bulfaiter: intelligent completion, it knows what you plan to type	22:13
bulfaiter	mmm	22:13
bulfaiter	johnsq: that's nice for bash, i guess	22:13
bulfaiter	but when coding	22:13
bulfaiter	I just need to write things once :P	22:13
johnsq	bulfaiter: It does the same job and needs no index and other stuff.	22:14
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crashanddie	johnsq, real men use raw input into the kernel	22:18
crashanddie	no pussy predictiveness	22:18
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johnsq	:)	22:19
crashanddie	I cat > /proc directly on boot	22:19
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bulfaiter	and now, the other question -crashanddie, i want you opinion too ;)	22:27
crashanddie	eh?	22:27
bulfaiter	Makefiles and all that stuff: do you do them by hand?	22:27
bulfaiter	or is there any tool to create them?	22:27
crashanddie	I have magic Makefiles	22:27
bulfaiter	(its a plural you)	22:27
crashanddie	which take care of themselves	22:27
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bulfaiter	great, so you just do make clean	22:27
bulfaiter	nice	22:27
crashanddie	bulfaiter, there's some nifty options in gcc which allow to find the dependencies based on the source code	22:28
johnsq	bulfaiter: look at automake autoconfig and such.	22:28
crashanddie	so you don't have to make sure your makefiles include everything	22:28
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bulfaiter	aham	22:29
crashanddie	bulfaiter, I can have a 50 classes c++ app, but my makefile still only has 10 lines or so	22:29
bulfaiter	and with that 50 classes app, you don't autocomplete?	22:30
bulfaiter	or you use emacs, too?	22:30
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johnsq	bulfaiter: there isn't much magic in makefiles, I just copy them from old projets to new, and replace some variables.	22:30
bulfaiter	the thing is: i'm using librest, so I have to import some .h. Pkg-config does its magic	22:31
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bulfaiter	and gets the includes and libs	22:31
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bulfaiter	so there's no problem if i know the function names	22:31
bulfaiter	and it compiles and all that	22:32
bulfaiter	without any problem	22:32
bulfaiter	(and works)	22:32
bulfaiter	but... I'd like to be able to import, say my "IDE": look for this dependency here, and index it	22:32
bulfaiter	so, after that, some keystroke allows me to choose between the options	22:32
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crashanddie	bulfaiter, invalid usecase	22:33
johnsq	bulfaiter: LIBS= `pkg-config --libs xcb-keysyms ...` does the same job	22:33
crashanddie	bulfaiter, a makefile, by design, is something you setup once, use many	22:33
bulfaiter	right	22:33
crashanddie	bulfaiter, so having to lookup the documentation once isn't going to kill you	22:33
bulfaiter	¬¬	22:33
bulfaiter	crashanddie: i code for a living	22:33
johnsq	bulfaiter: same with -cflags for the headerfiles.	22:33
bulfaiter	i use visual studio	22:33
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bulfaiter	johnsq: yeah, i did that: pkg-config librest --libs --cflags	22:34
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bulfaiter	and got the options to pass g++	22:34
bulfaiter	and as i did it with `	22:34
crashanddie	bulfaiter, and I travel the world and tell banks and governments they're idiots for being so lax with regards to security, I'm also a programmer by trade, seriously, don't try to bollock your way through this channel by using such arbitrary statements that don't mean anything to anyone except yourself	22:34
bulfaiter	i mean, between that comma,	22:34
bulfaiter	it expanded	22:34
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bulfaiter	crashanddie: i don't need to be your friend. I came here asking for some help, and you started calling me noob	22:35
bulfaiter	so i don't need your answers	22:35
crashanddie	bulfaiter, what you're talking about is not related to Maemo. If you have an issue with makefiles or gcc, go to the appropriate channels	22:35
bulfaiter	i can use johnsq's	22:35
bulfaiter	he's been helpfull	22:35
johnsq	bulfaiter: `...` or $(shell .... )	22:35
lardman	re	22:36
lardman	hello chaps	22:36
crashanddie	o/ lardman, wassup mate?	22:36
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crashanddie	lardman, 12 hour flight tomorrow, woohoo!	22:36
lardman	crashanddie: not much, just back from a meeting, chilling out with a beer	22:36
* timeless_mbp sighs		22:36
crashanddie	oh, beer sounds nice	22:37
lardman	yay! sounds like fun...	22:37
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lardman	12h to where?	22:37
timeless_mbp	has anyone here seen foreaca-weather-applet?	22:37
timeless_mbp	its package is um... interesting	22:37
crashanddie	lardman, proper excuse to convince my cow-orkers that the n900 is awesome	22:37
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crashanddie	lardman, and nowhere to flee (for them!)	22:37
crashanddie	lardman, california	22:37
lardman	who needs an excuse!	22:37
crashanddie	they do	22:37
lardman	ah, sounds nice	22:37
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crashanddie	I just discovered the place I'm staying at has a drumkit, and a few basses/guitars, so it's going to be hard to be professional	22:38
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crashanddie	lardman, I got myself a Python book, as you recommended, and will try to get a bluetooth keyboard in the airport tomorrow, might start hacking away nicely	22:39
lardman	good good :)	22:39
lardman	unfortunately pyGTK has no book	22:39
lardman	or had, might have one now	22:39
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crashanddie	lardman, not interested in pyGTK	22:39
lardman	good lad, who needs GUIs?	22:39
lardman	:)	22:39
crashanddie	GTK make me feel like I have a pig's scrotum stuck to my fingers	22:40
lardman	Qt all the way?	22:40
crashanddie	QT isn't any better, but at least "it's the way of the future"	22:40
lardman	yes, true	22:40
crashanddie	and well, Qt is more object oriented, so makes more sense with Python	22:40
crashanddie	anyway, time for some awesome ironing, ttyl	22:41
lardman	enjoy!	22:41
hrw	bye all	22:41
lardman	30min/shirt...	22:41
lardman	bye hrw	22:41
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lardman	anyone know how to set macro mode on the N900 camera programmatically?	22:42
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lardman	damn, needs libgdigicam, but it doesn't seem to like me	22:43
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lcuk	lardman, wheres the -dev for digicam	22:45
riddlebox	i wish i had a n900	22:46
lardman	have to compile your own from gitorious	22:46
lardman	but the example code is sparse to say the least	22:46
lcuk	ahh	22:46
qwerty12_N810	lardman: AFAIK, the author of that library frequents #maemo	22:47
lardman	qwerty12_N810, do you know his name?	22:47
lardman	nick	22:47
X-Fade	lardman: ab	22:47
lardman	and does anyone know how I get xchat to s/,/: ?	22:47
qwerty12_N810	ab, I think	22:47
lardman	X-Fade: thanks	22:48
lardman	qwerty12_N810, ditto	22:48
qwerty12_N810	lardman: settings -> preferences -> input box -> nick completion suffix	22:48
lardman	I don't have input box	22:49
lardman	xchat-GNOME 0.26.1	22:49
lardman	I'm being forced to use , !	22:49
qwerty12_N810	Eurgh, use the real thing	22:49
X-Fade	qwerty12_N810: irssi you mean? :)	22:49
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qwerty12_N810	I knew someone would say that! :)	22:50
lardman	xchat uses tcl	22:50
lardman	!	22:50
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X-Fade	most clients do	22:50
lardman	really	22:50
lardman	oh, fair enough	22:50
Mousey	huh?	22:51
qwerty12_N810	No, it has a plugin for allowing one to use scripts for it written in TCL	22:51
X-Fade	tcl irc and bot scripts are quite common	22:51
lardman	ah ok	22:51
lardman	right, just removing the gnomisms and going to pure xchat, bbiam, I hope ;)	22:51
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* timeless_mbp grovels for testers		22:52
timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N810: so... fingerable zenity? :)	22:52
X-Fade	Ah, finally all icons show for apps in the packages interface.	22:52
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qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: I'm working on something of my own, ATM :\	22:53
lardman	I'm back	22:53
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lardman	much better	22:53
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, get a free minute or two to review the cloak proposal? ;)	22:53
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Do you know of any docs from freenode about what we can reasonably ask for?	22:54
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GAN900	X-Fade, yes, but I haven't reviewed them in a while. Will re-reck.	22:55
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tbf	timeless: is it possible to have kinetic scrolling in GtkMozEmbed?	22:55
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pupnik	----if iphone were a band, it would have a drop-dead sexy lead singer and solid musicians performing music that is dumbed-down and annoying.	22:56
lcuk	lardman, did you run through the testsuite	22:57
lcuk	as part of gdigicam	22:57
lardman	lcuk: no	22:57
tbf	timeless_mbp: is it possible to have kinetic scrolling in GtkMozEmbed?	22:57
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tbf	or do i have to use some maemo specific API to embed a pannable browser widget?	22:57
lcuk	since it runs over all the variouscombinations	22:57
lcuk	it might be an idea	22:58
lardman	yes, but not in the way I want	22:58
lcuk	and should show the expected use of each fn	22:58
javispedro	oh sorry. but this is hilarious.	22:58
lardman	I need to feed the output to an xvimagesink in a small window	22:58
javispedro	the "n900 does not have opengl" post is echoing all over the fansites	22:58
lardman	lcuk: I also want to use a tee and two pipelines, which doesn't seem to agree with it, etc	22:58
javispedro	and they're even surprised...	22:58
X-Fade	javispedro: Well iphone doesn't have it either ;)	22:59
qwerty12_N810	javispedro: Should we strangle the fools together? :)	22:59
lcuk	mm? i thought once you pushed data onto a gst pipeline it just moves along the pipeline and the any library used at the source end is handled then and the results are left to flow through the pipe	22:59
Stskeeps	javispedro: what on earth..	22:59
Stskeeps	javispedro: wtf.	22:59
lardman	lcuk: in fact I don't need the camera_bin stuff, I just want one pipeline	22:59
lardman	lcuk: yeah, but it didn't work for me - may be my fault. I need to ask	23:00
* lcuk nods		23:00
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* javispedro was previously considering registering on certain fansite just to tell people that the "N900 wasn't a Intel Core 2 Duo" and slash their expectations in half.		23:00
javispedro	but now I'm considering registering to defend the N900....	23:00
* lardman heads off to watch Life		23:00
Mousey	core uno?	23:00
Flandry	anyone willing to briefly test a game package on a real n900 and give me feedback on the controls?	23:01
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timeless_mbp	so...	23:01
lcuk	cya later lardman	23:01
timeless_mbp	iirc the browser gets kinetic panning by not disabling something from the engine	23:01
javispedro	bye lardman!	23:01
timeless_mbp	if you want the same kind of panning the browser has, you should be able to get it if you use the tablet browser apis	23:01
RST38h	javis: That is a slippery path	23:01
timeless_mbp	but kinetic panning wasn't part of gtkmozembed, ...	23:02
RST38h	You already want to defend n900 in the net forums? A slippery path indeed	23:02
timeless_mbp	at least, iirc, that's how things are/aren't	23:02
javispedro	RST38h: I can't but help follow their latest weird activities.	23:02
qwerty12_N810	javispedro: I'd say "point 'em to the Quake 3 port" but I wouldn't be surprised if they said it was using software rendering...	23:02
johnsq	javispedro: write or port ps1 emulator	23:03
javispedro	qwerty12_N810: well, I would. This is from the same guy with the 10 or 12 N900 emulators...	23:03
qwerty12_N810	facepalm	23:04
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lcuk	technically its true tho isnt it - the n900 is not compatible with desktop opengl	23:04
lcuk	gles sure	23:05
lcuk	and show bounce being more advanced	23:05
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javispedro	it's true of course. how's that going to be a dealbreaker, specially: how's that going to be a dealbreaker AT THIS STAGE is over me.	23:05
qwerty12_N810	lcuk: But your average user will not understand the difference and will be thinking no 3D games are possible :)	23:05
lcuk	but its been clear from like 2004 that desktop opengl doesnt work on mobiles	23:06
lcuk	are there actually any that support it	23:06
X-Fade	qwerty12_N810: No directx either ;)	23:06
javispedro	exactly.	23:06
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qwerty12_N810	lcuk: Welcome to the internet...	23:06
lcuk	:O omg X-Fade	23:06
lcuk	really	23:06
qwerty12_N810	X-Fade: OMG	23:06
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X-Fade	I am not kidding!	23:06
lcuk	:'( i wanted to play farcry on my n900	23:06
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lcuk	i just heard the n900 does not include a DVD drive on board	23:07
* suihkulokki notes xkcd.com is having a memorial service for the burial of geocities		23:07
Flyser	too bad wine wont work ...	23:08
lcuk	how am i expected to install windows 7	23:08
timeless_mbp	suihkulokki: geocities died again?	23:08
lcuk	Flyser, wine always works	23:08
javispedro	btw lcuk, got the book. interesting. I wish they would have included a bit more info on diffs between gl and gl es .	23:08
lcuk	ask lardman	23:08
Flyser	lcuk: wine workson an arm processor?!	23:08
lcuk	timeless, died for real, they just stopped accepting updates ages ago afaik	23:08
timeless_mbp	Flyser: win32 works on arm	23:08
lcuk	Flyser, wine works on users	23:08
pvanhoof	pvanhoof Hey, somebody knows how to get somebody on planet-maemo?	23:09
pvanhoof	pvanhoof Given the amount of stuff this upstream maintainer of Tumbler is doing for change-request that I'm making, I feel we should reward him a bit by getting him on planet-maemo (and he was just asking me about how this maemo stuff works, so)	23:09
pvanhoof	pvanhoof And how to get involved	23:09
pvanhoof	pvanhoof ill ask on #maemo	23:09
Flyser	lcuk: :D	23:09
pvanhoof	Tumbler is going to be Harmattan's thumbnailer service	23:09
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Flyser	timeless_mbp: Link?	23:09
timeless_mbp	en.wikipedia.org ?	23:09
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pvanhoof	Somebody knows?	23:09
X-Fade	pvanhoof: can you mail to planet at maemo?	23:09
lcuk	http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/aggregate_your_blog/	23:10
X-Fade	pvanhoof: I will then do that in the morning.	23:10
Flyser	Even if win32 works on arm this does not mean that wine does too	23:10
pvanhoof	X-Fade, planet@maemo.org?	23:10
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pvanhoof	X-Fade, awesome, ok.	23:10
X-Fade	pvanhoof: thanks for the spam.	23:10
pvanhoof	np :)	23:10
GeneralAntilles	pvanhoof, this channel is logged. :)	23:10
javispedro	Flyser: well, there have been some patches for Winelib ARM support in the wine tree.	23:10
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GeneralAntilles	pvanhoof, so let's avoid handing direct email links over to the bots, thanks.	23:10
pvanhoof	oh, sorry gene	23:10
pvanhoof	GeneralAntilles I mean	23:11
pupnik_	will we get exchange / outlook integration (maybe commercial)?	23:11
pupnik_	friend is asking for it	23:11
X-Fade	pupnik_: already there?	23:11
X-Fade	pupnik_: mfe?	23:11
pupnik_	<- a little slow	23:11
timeless_mbp	Flyser: so, there was some recent progress by someone on wine-arm	23:11
pupnik_	mfe...	23:11
suihkulokki	javispedro: one of the oldest tricks you could do with qemu linux-user was to run "qemu-i386 ./wine" on a ppc	23:11
suihkulokki	so you could do the same on arm	23:12
javispedro	suihkulokki: but that's very slow.	23:12
Flyser	suihkulokki: qemu emulation on a mobile phone :D	23:12
pupnik_	X-Fade: solid? mature?	23:12
GeneralAntilles	Mail for Exchange, pupnik.	23:12
suihkulokki	javispedro: oh really? :D	23:12
pupnik_	ty	23:12
timeless_mbp	for lack of a better note about win/arm, http://forums.arm.com/index.php?showtopic=1422	23:12
pvanhoof	X-Fade, I asked Jannis to send you that e-mail	23:12
X-Fade	pupnik_: integrated, offered by Nokia.	23:12
pvanhoof	X-Fade, note that Tumbler wont yet be used on Fremantle, so this is stuff for Harmattan already. On Fremantle the thumbnailer service is hildon-thumbnailerd	23:13
javispedro	suihkulokki: AFAIK Darwine used to have PPC Wine, and a modified qemu for x86 user code only (native wine libs would be non emulated).	23:13
X-Fade	pvanhoof: Just tell him to mention Maemo a lot in his posts ;)	23:13
timeless_mbp	X-Fade: how does one file bugs about foreca? :)	23:13
pvanhoof	X-Fade, yeah he has a tag for maemo that he just made	23:13
X-Fade	pvanhoof: Otherwise he will feel the love of the negative vote ;)	23:13
GeneralAntilles	Planet hates off-topic. rawr.	23:14
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pvanhoof	http://gezeiten.org/feed/tag/maemo/atom	23:14
pvanhoof	X-Fade, nod. Though audience indeed :)	23:14
X-Fade	pvanhoof: Couch surfing now.. Don't want to do real work ;)	23:14
pvanhoof	sure ok :)	23:15
X-Fade	pvanhoof: I'll do it in the morning.	23:15
pvanhoof	X-Fade, but of course, tumbler is XFCE software that we are adapting and preparing to be useful on Maemo. So Maemo audience should realize that we cooperate sometimes with xfce ;)	23:15
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pvanhoof	That's a good thing :)	23:16
pvanhoof	But thanks for taking care	23:16
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* timeless_mbp knifes andre__		23:21
andre__	timeless_mbp, eh?	23:21
timeless_mbp	don't defend ui designers	23:21
timeless_mbp	it's bad for your health	23:21
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anidel	re	23:22
GeneralAntilles	Link!	23:22
andre__	timeless_mbp, don't file duplicates	23:22
timeless_mbp	andre__: not a duplicate	23:22
andre__	then explain why	23:22
timeless_mbp	because it's a different widget	23:22
timeless_mbp	and it's screwed differently	23:23
timeless_mbp	and i want this person to suffer death by a thousand papercuts	23:23
SpeedEvil	timeless: what if htey have a paperless office?	23:23
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: we use postits	23:23
anidel	timeless.. woah man.. I missed the bug..	23:23
andre__	timeless_mbp, file an internal ticket	23:23
timeless_mbp	no	23:24
andre__	yes.	23:24
timeless_mbp	bugs should be discussed in the public eye	23:24
Corsac	qwerty12_N810: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5793 btw, not sure if you saw it	23:24
andre__	yeah. discussed.	23:24
timeless_mbp	if he can't defend himself publicly	23:24
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timeless_mbp	then he loses	23:24
andre__	so have arguments.	23:24
* GeneralAntilles chuckles at andre__'s plight.		23:25
qwerty12_N810	Thanks, Corsac	23:25
timeless_mbp	Corsac: seriously	23:25
timeless_mbp	in that case, you're best served by writing your own widget	23:26
timeless_mbp	i'll probably write one in zenity in a bit	23:26
timeless_mbp	once i figure out the details	23:26
qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: libprofile has headers	23:26
timeless_mbp	oh, i'm not saying it's undocumented	23:26
timeless_mbp	just that i'd have to read something	23:26
timeless_mbp	since it isn't my area :)	23:26
qwerty12_N810	Ah :)	23:27
timeless_mbp	Corsac: the ui team is very opinionated	23:27
timeless_mbp	and refuses to change anything	23:27
Flandry	is uploading to extras the first step of getting public input	23:27
javispedro	qwerty12_N810: having headers is only the first step ;)	23:27
timeless_mbp	the best you can do is show that they're wrong	23:27
timeless_mbp	and the best way to do that is have a popular addon that everyone uses	23:27
javispedro	having doxygenated headers would be step 2 ;)	23:27
Flandry	or should i share a deb until i think it's ready	23:27
qwerty12_N810	javispedro: They appear to be...	23:27
qwerty12_N810	Detailed comments can be found in 'em	23:27
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javispedro	cool. then the generated docs must be avail somewhere in SDK docs.	23:28
timeless_mbp	Corsac: fwiw /etc/profiled/ is pretty easy to deal w/	23:28
andre__	timeless_mbp, you can of course import the ticket yourself if you want. see http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Cloning	23:28
timeless_mbp	andre__: i don't care about cloning to internal	23:28
timeless_mbp	what matters is the public bug	23:28
andre__	timeless_mbp, then enjoy getting stuff continually wontfix'ed. as easy as that	23:29
qwerty12_N810	Meanwhile, Nokia should make a header detailing com.nokia.phone.SSC. Hardcoding values is not good for my health...	23:29
timeless_mbp	andre__: if you don't want to clone the bug, don't touch it <PERIOD>	23:29
timeless_mbp	don't touch = don't change the resolution	23:29
andre__	that's not how it works	23:29
timeless_mbp	if the ui owner wants to wontfix it, they have to crawl out from behind their shelter	23:29
timeless_mbp	no hiding	23:29
andre__	not at all.	23:29
timeless_mbp	yes.	23:30
andre__	shrug	23:30
timeless_mbp	andre__: you don't want to be where you are. stay out of the middle.	23:30
GeneralAntilles	Hooray for broken processes.	23:30
timeless_mbp	ask quim to drag their asses into the public	23:31
andre__	timeless_mbp, well, done that to quim and tero at the summit	23:31
timeless_mbp	they're public figures, they presented themselves at maemo summit	23:31
Corsac	timeless_mbp: does this sound like something I can code using only scratchbox?	23:31
anidel	a broken process can be fixed.. if both sides would stick to the glue	23:31
andre__	timeless_mbp, feel free to do the same	23:31
GeneralAntilles	Nokia turned the bugmaster position into a giant bandaid.	23:31
timeless_mbp	Corsac: well	23:31
timeless_mbp	depends on whether or note the profiled thing runs in scratchbox	23:31
timeless_mbp	i could write the zenity thing based on just the two files from /etc/profiled/	23:32
anidel	maybe it just didn't scale well	23:32
andre__	GeneralAntilles, I disagree	23:32
pupnik_	can mfe be integrated into the rest of n900 mail?	23:32
andre__	only to be clear, it's not that i want to keep the current state. but i repeat myself anyway...	23:32
timeless_mbp	pupnik_: eh?	23:32
X-Fade	pupnik_: it is just a provider in the regular mail client	23:32
GeneralAntilles	andre__, and, yet, #630 really hasn't gotten all that much better.	23:33
andre__	GeneralAntilles, will maemo.gitorious.org help?	23:33
GeneralAntilles	andre__, I doubt it.	23:33
andre__	why?	23:33
andre__	so it's better to keep the code internal?	23:33
andre__	like before?	23:33
GeneralAntilles	Following CVS commits aint the same thing as actually having the responsible parties respond to bugs.	23:34
andre__	git commits ;-))	23:34
GeneralAntilles	The code is a separate issue.	23:34
andre__	i think it's related	23:34
GeneralAntilles	s/CVS/VCS/	23:34
andre__	:-)	23:34
timeless_mbp	and not accepting patches means that the fact there's a readable VCS doesn't make it communal	23:34
timeless_mbp	(note: the browser is no better here, i'm not claiming we are)	23:34
GeneralAntilles	All I see these days is you forwarding shit back and forth.	23:34
GeneralAntilles	It's a really bad game of telephone.	23:35
andre__	of course i want to check out that code, and commit my oneliner patch myself after a review in bugs.maemo.org	23:35
timeless_mbp	Corsac: so...	23:35
anidel	Quim's also doing the same nowadays, but it can produce the shit while andre can't	23:35
GeneralAntilles	That's resulting in a lot of discouraged bug reporters thanks to Nokia's broken process.	23:35
timeless_mbp	what do you have in terms of files	23:35
timeless_mbp	i think you want to have:	23:35
andre__	GeneralAntilles, yeah, currently it is bad. that's totally true.	23:36
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: But reporting a bug doesn't imply that it gets fixed the way you want.	23:36
timeless_mbp	/etc/profield/90.nokia.ini /etc/profiled/99.custom.ini /etc/systemui/systemui.xml	23:36
andre__	GeneralAntilles, but I also see more nokians commenting in bugs.maemo.org	23:36
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, sure, but you should at least get a reasonable response.	23:36
andre__	in the last weeks. definitely.	23:36
GeneralAntilles	Not, "Spec. STFU."	23:36
anidel	x-fade but usually nokia has his own way of seeing things.. and they won't change it that easily	23:36
andre__	that's generalizing	23:36
andre__	and you know that...	23:36
anidel	x-fate you've got to push hard...	23:36
X-Fade	Which means we need to fix another problem.	23:37
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GeneralAntilles	People aren't likely to continue filing bugs if they keep getting poor responses.	23:37
* javispedro can't resist the urge and registers		23:37
X-Fade	And that is how the spec gets specified.	23:37
GeneralAntilles	Just like people aren't going to keep submitting patches. . . .	23:37
timeless_mbp	Corsac: i suspect those files and a couple of others referenced by them should be all you'd need to write something	23:37
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timeless_mbp	X-Fade: please! :)	23:37
* timeless_mbp grumbles		23:37
X-Fade	timeless_mbp: Not saying that is easy ;)	23:38
X-Fade	But at least that should be our goal.	23:38
GeneralAntilles	The process is broken and facilitating it isn't helping progress to fix it.	23:38
timeless_mbp	Corsac: do you have those files?	23:38
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timeless_mbp	if not, someone can fix that for oyu	23:38
anidel	how do we want to fix it?	23:38
timeless_mbp	s/oyu/you/	23:38
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: if not, someone can fix that for you	23:38
GeneralAntilles	We really need to look at Bugzilla report cards again.	23:38
GeneralAntilles	At least we'll have some numbers to throw at them then.	23:38
Corsac	timeless_mbp: I'm starting my vm and scratchbox	23:39
andre__	GeneralAntilles, and completely abandoning the process tomorrow is impossible. but that's what i read here between the lines	23:39
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andre__	(not just telling you though...)	23:39
GeneralAntilles	andre__, sure, but progress has been so slow it's barely noticeable.	23:39
GeneralAntilles	I get that big ships turn slow	23:39
timeless_mbp	andre__: where does a normal human go to file bugs about foreca?	23:39
GeneralAntilles	but my fear is that it may be turning too slowly for it to matter.	23:39
qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: A normal human uses OMWeather	23:40
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timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N810: what, you don't want your battery to die w/in a couple of hours?	23:40
X-Fade	qwerty12_N810: That is at least the maemo.org way of doing it ;)	23:40
* timeless_mbp is shocked		23:40
andre__	timeless_mbp, don't know. maintainer email address? :-/	23:40
qwerty12_N810	:)	23:40
andre__	there's not even a feedback channel internally i think....	23:40
timeless_mbp	i think there's a bucket in the bugzilla internally	23:41
Corsac	timeless_mbp: hmhm, should I install something specific in scratchbox?	23:41
timeless_mbp	Corsac: dunno	23:41
* GeneralAntilles like to file some bugs on Ovi Maps but I think my head would explode if I started trying to parse them.		23:41
timeless_mbp	i don't use scratchbox	23:41
Corsac	(i'm in the sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL target, but…)	23:41
timeless_mbp	i stick to mer	23:41
Corsac	erf	23:41
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qwerty12_N810	GeneralAntilles: Ovi Maps is a bug...	23:41
timeless_mbp	Corsac: hold on	23:41
anidel	ovi maps is a free commercial product	23:42
timeless_mbp	osso-systemui-powermenukey has the xml file	23:42
tbf	...ovi maps is web 2.0 kids (gate5) trying to build a desktop app	23:42
timeless_mbp	anidel: odd statement	23:42
GeneralAntilles	Only because they know it's shit.	23:42
javispedro	Today I've been tempted again by the capacitive side of the force.	23:42
timeless_mbp	tbf: web 2.0?	23:42
* timeless_mbp objects		23:42
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, jerk	23:42
GeneralAntilles	They'll charge for it as soon as they think they can get away with it without having a class action suit.	23:42
* qwerty12_N810 finds the Location Widget more useful...		23:42
anidel	timeless: meaning they do whatever they want with it, the way they like it.. perhaps they listen to whoever they want.	23:42
timeless_mbp	the other two files are from:	23:42
timeless_mbp	profile-data	23:42
timeless_mbp	and maemo-ringtones-mr0	23:42
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N810, about 80% of the time Ovi stops showing the red location dot after about 5 minutes.	23:43
tbf	timeless_mbp: gate5 did plazes before the got bought, and plazes definitely is one of those web 2.0 toys	23:43
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: ah, but have you had your red dot go to the north pole?	23:43
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* timeless_mbp has		23:43
* timeless_mbp has pictures too		23:43
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, I used a G2 at FLS. Hated it.	23:43
ifreq	Ovi :(	23:43
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timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: btw, it's Nokia Maps, not Ovi Maps	23:43
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, yo, dude, did you put me on ignore or something?	23:43
timeless_mbp	the branding is different :)	23:43
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, most of the time I can't see it, so it could very well be there.	23:44
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, wut?	23:44
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, twice I highlight you, twice you ignore me, bitch	23:44
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, is it? http://maemo.nokia.com/features/ovi-maps/	23:44
Corsac	timeless_mbp: mpf, profile-data isnt available here	23:44
anidel	indeed he is	23:44
crashanddie	/ignore --total GeneralAntilles	23:44
qwerty12_N810	Corsac: nokia-binaries repo	23:44
Corsac	ha, that's why	23:44
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: the app internally says Nokia Maps	23:44
Corsac	hmhm, weird, I though I had it setup	23:44
timeless_mbp	and the splash screen clearly says it	23:44
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, I don't want to talk to yo dumb ass.	23:45
timeless_mbp	i was told Ovi Maps is the next version	23:45
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: At least what they say about the sensitiviness is true. However, I still prefer the ability to tap the screen with your average ballpoint pen cap.	23:45
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, Unknown arg 'GeneralAntilles' ignored :(	23:45
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, mine says "Maps"	23:45
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timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: when you tap it, the splash screen doesn't say Nokia Maps?	23:45
anidel	Maps	23:45
crashanddie	timeless_mbp, is that before or after the 20s screen lag?	23:45
tbf	timeless_mbp: the splash only says "Maps", "Karten", ...	23:45
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, About says "Ovi Maps 1.00" the splash screen says "Maps"	23:45
timeless_mbp	i've used quite a few, they all say Nokia Maps in the splash screen	23:45
anidel	maps.ovi.com	23:45
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: during	23:45
anidel	it always says Maps to e	23:46
anidel	me	23:46
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, older build?	23:46
anidel	the about says: Ovi Maps 1.00	23:46
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: bad memory?	23:46
* timeless_mbp shrugs		23:46
timeless_mbp	ok, i'll change it	23:46
timeless_mbp	i could have sworn it said Nokia Maps	23:47
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, Maps was Nokia Maps prior to 2.0 on S60, but 3.0 is Ovi Maps.	23:47
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anidel	you could, but it doesn't :)	23:47
GeneralAntilles	Er, 2.0 and prior.	23:47
timeless_mbp	the package names are nokia-maps-*	23:47
timeless_mbp	that little i'm certain of	23:47
GeneralAntilles	It's been named both on S60.	23:47
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GeneralAntilles	So I wouldn't be surprised if the same holds true for Maemo.	23:47
GeneralAntilles	Although on 41-10 it's definitely Ovi Maps.	23:48
GeneralAntilles	So, we're both right.	23:48
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anidel	can we forse the screenshot not to be taken for terminal?	23:48
anidel	the one loaded before the terminal is actually fully loaded?	23:48
timeless_mbp	??	23:48
timeless_mbp	oh	23:48
anidel	different matter	23:48
anidel	when it starts	23:48
anidel	well	23:49
anidel	when it shows i think it's loaded	23:49
anidel	and start typing	23:49
anidel	and the address book appears	23:49
anidel	doh	23:49
andre__	anidel, file a bug. screenshot faking so sucks...	23:49
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: what do you get for descriptions of nokia-maps-ui and nokiamaps-navigation-provider?	23:49
GeneralAntilles	Haha	23:49
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, the screenshot faking is just awful.	23:49
anidel	andre, will don't worry.. just looking for a workaround	23:49
andre__	just introduces new issues. already bitched internally... sigh	23:49
timeless_mbp	anidel: if they did it right, there's a .desktop flag for it	23:50
timeless_mbp	if not, well..., don't be surprised :)	23:50
anidel	can't they just grab the "focus" as soon as the title is shown?	23:50
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, Nokia Maps	23:50
anidel	a .desktop flag?	23:50
lardman	re	23:50
GeneralAntilles	Gawd, JavaScript.	23:50
timeless_mbp	anidel: the menus are controlled by .desktop files	23:50
anidel	hey lardman	23:50
timeless_mbp	they're basically .ini files	23:50
anidel	ah okay	23:51
timeless_mbp	which can specify random hints to launchers	23:51
GeneralAntilles	GPS navigation seems like the last thing you'd want to do in js.	23:51
GeneralAntilles	What is this, webOS?	23:51
timeless_mbp	so the right place to let people override it is there	23:51
timeless_mbp	note that i don't work with those guys	23:51
anidel	cool	23:51
timeless_mbp	so i don't know if they did the right thing	23:51
anidel	:-)	23:51
timeless_mbp	and i certainly don't have any faith	23:51
Corsac	timeless_mbp: thanks, I could install profile-data so I have an example profile	23:51
timeless_mbp	but sometimes they surprise me	23:51
timeless_mbp	Corsac: ok, that's a start	23:52
GeneralAntilles	Nokia: Doing it Wrong®	23:52
anidel	but you still love'em.. as you're here on this platform still	23:52
timeless_mbp	the other file can be pilfered from someone	23:52
timeless_mbp	or the relevant bits extracted	23:52
anidel	ga: but together...shake hands	23:52
timeless_mbp	i think it's basically a dbus service/method call	23:52
timeless_mbp	personally, i'd probably just add some stuff to the .xml file	23:52
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timeless_mbp	i think the systemui.xml file was similar in maemo4	23:52
GAN900	anidel, connecting pedophiles.	23:52
javispedro	Ovi Maps is ... JS ... ? :P sigh	23:52
timeless_mbp	so you can probably find examples of previous hacks	23:52
anidel	gan900 :p	23:52
timeless_mbp	javispedro: it gets better	23:52
anidel	javispedro: Ovi Maps is Just Shit, yes...	23:53
timeless_mbp	rumor has it they have a stub (or perhaps real?) impl of the plugin in js :)	23:53
javispedro	sigh.	23:53
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anidel	anyway.. lots of crap and shit.. but it's not google or apple and that's fine with me so far.	23:54
Corsac	timeless_mbp: 90.nokia.ini doesn't look like an xml file :)	23:54
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javispedro	so they can't be arsed to make a proper mozilla+linux plugin even when they release a mozilla+linux product.	23:54
timeless_mbp	Corsac: no, it's an ini file	23:54
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timeless_mbp	javispedro: oh, they're shipping a npapi plugin, but it uses an obsolete api	23:54
timeless_mbp	one that doesn't exist in gecko 1.9.2	23:55
timeless_mbp	which um... well, let's just say.. the browser team was ... overjoyed ...	23:55
javispedro	... with joy.	23:55
timeless_mbp	no browser updates until someone cleans up their mess	23:55
lbt	So, tonight I got into a huge traffic jam and used ovi maps to get me out..... conclusion? Ovi maps are fucking useless and I want an iPhone.	23:55
javispedro	here's to another year of hoping a garmin map viewer software gets to "usable" state.	23:55
timeless_mbp	personally, i'm considering trying to get the gps gateway in microb working	23:56
timeless_mbp	so i can use google maps	23:56
qwerty12_N810	There you have it: Ovi Maps sucks so badly that a full-time Debian user wants an iPhone :)	23:56
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timeless_mbp	Corsac: anyway... you'll find an systemui.xml file somewhere	23:56
lbt	I came to the conclusion that if I'd spent my own money on the N900 I would have been so pissed I'd have taken it back	23:56
javispedro	qwerty12_N810: do us a favour and try to run navicore ;)	23:56
timeless_mbp	http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=systemui.xml&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8	23:56
timeless_mbp	talks about it a lot	23:56
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anidel	lbt: some friend drove from north london to south west london (my place).. they were lost two three times due to navigation on the iphone	23:57
anidel	too slow to tell them where and when to turn :)	23:57
qwerty12_N810	javispedro: It's gonna check for the sysfs entries for the N800's WiFi, at least	23:57
lbt	it was totally unusable from a UI PoV ... (my wife was using it)	23:58
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lbt	the GPS update seemed to happen every 10 mins or so	23:58
anidel	lbt: agreed	23:58
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lbt	seriously crap	23:58
lbt	we spent an hour and a half totally lost within 15 miles of home	23:58
javispedro	qwerty12_N810 (in Bruce Wayne's voice): That wouldn't stop a man like you, now would it?	23:58
qwerty12_N810	lbt: I cringe when using it inside my house...	23:58
anidel	lbt: I suppose the gps was losing signal and reverting to network positioning	23:58
lbt	(in the dark on country lanes)	23:58
anidel	anyway..it's horrible..can't wait for maemomapper	23:59
timeless_mbp	lbt: awesome	23:59
qwerty12_N810	javispedro: It would, when I'm having fun with the joys of hildon-desktop :)	23:59
javispedro	:)	23:59

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