IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-10-23

*** shdb has quit IRC00:00
*** shdb has joined #maemo00:00
vasily_pupkinhm. it scans only WLAN_WPA, isn't it?00:00
javispedrolibicd-wpa listens to all scan results but currently ignores them even if they're not for a specific AP due to a TODO00:00
*** Anunakin has quit IRC00:00
*** bbns has joined #maemo00:01
javispedrovasily_pupkin: i mean scans for specific aps from all IAPs.00:01
vasily_pupkineh00:01
bbnshello. has there anyone tried compiling gcc 4 under scratchbox?00:02
lbtbbns: what are you trying to do?00:02
*** woglinde has joined #maemo00:02
woglindeho00:02
bbnslbt, wanna find out if gcc 4 generate better neon code.00:02
lbtsince that is asking for a world of pain00:02
dmj7261How Nokia *shouldn't*market: http://techdirt.com/articles/20091022/0415006635.shtml00:03
vasily_pupkini use gcc 4.1..200:03
bbnslbt, so what is the best way to build gcc then?00:03
vasily_pupkinin scratchbox00:03
vasily_pupkini try to use 4.3.x00:03
vasily_pupkinbut it was too much pain :]00:03
bbnsvasily_pupkin, from codesourcery? or build it from source?00:03
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo00:03
vasily_pupkincodesourcery00:03
*** tonikitoo has quit IRC00:03
* lbt is in the middle of building a cross-gcc-4.3 for Mer00:04
bbnsvasily_pupkin, codesourery did not fully support openmp unless you buy it. :-/ that's why i wanna try to build gnu one.00:04
vasily_pupkinopenmp on maemo? O_O00:04
vasily_pupkinw00w00:04
bbnsvasily_pupkin, i saw codesourcery advertised openmp support on 2009Q1.00:05
vasily_pupkindo you realy need it? :]00:05
*** Xisdibik has joined #maemo00:06
bbnsvasily_pupkin, there are some existing libraries optimized for openmp, like opencv. not sure how it would benefit the performnce though.00:06
lbtbbns: don't build a cross-gcc00:06
lbtuse a chroot00:06
lbtand use emulated gcc with the fremantle libs etc00:07
vasily_pupkinat singlecore openmp is a vaste of resources00:07
lbtslower compiles but might work00:07
javispedrovasily_pupkin: i'll just up the number of scan tries it does.00:07
vasily_pupkinjavispedro: ok, let's try00:08
bbnslbt, would that means building gcc under scratchbox? i never used chroot nor cross-compiling before (total noob).00:08
javispedrovasily_pupkin: pushed to git.00:08
bbnsvasily_pupkin, i though omap3 is dual core, nope?00:08
*** mariorz has quit IRC00:08
*** jofjdi has joined #maemo00:09
*** alecrim has quit IRC00:09
lbtbbns: no, get the gcc .deb from the Ubuntu armel ports00:09
*** mariorz has joined #maemo00:09
lbtif you can't manage to get it installed and running then you'd have no chance of building it :)00:09
lbtfrankly if you're new to this then you've picked the wrong thing to start on00:10
bbnslbt, okay ... *gasp* the 2007q3 is so stupid on vectorize ... :-/00:10
bbnslbt, maybe i will just put it on the least priority. thanks though.00:11
lbtso define "total noob" ?00:11
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo00:11
*** `0660_ has joined #maemo00:11
bbnsi am a total noob on building toolchain on my own.00:11
vasily_pupkinjavispedro: yeh. i got ad-hoc with null signal :]00:11
lbtnormally it's not stupidly hard00:11
lbtbut mixing scratchbox into it makes it so00:12
javispedroyep, signal on results is missing00:12
javispedronow, try to connect :)00:12
*** xxiao has quit IRC00:12
lbtI'm building the cross-gcc for Mer and I wouldn't even think of trying to make that work00:12
vasily_pupkinit says that "No such device"00:12
vasily_pupkinseems like wlancond put it dwn00:12
bbnslbt, i see. maybe i will just sit and wait ... if any courage hero makes it succeed.00:12
javispedrovasily_pupkin: no, I talk to wlancond too.00:12
javispedroare you reading wpa_supp output?00:13
vasily_pupkinicd200:13
bbnslbt, though it's so tempting that i heard gcc 4.4.1 improves some vectorization against NEON.00:13
lbtbbns: I may be doing something in that space in a different way depending on load...00:13
vasily_pupkinhm00:13
vasily_pupkinnow all ok00:13
*** ArSa has quit IRC00:13
*** pupnik has quit IRC00:13
javispedrovasily_pupkin: it spawns wpa_supplicant using same stdout, so wpa_supplicant output should appear there too.00:13
vasily_pupkinstrange00:13
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo00:13
vasily_pupkinseems like ot works, thanks00:14
bbnslbt, got it. thanks! =)00:14
vasily_pupkini can't change it fully as for now00:14
vasily_pupkins/change/test/00:14
infobotvasily_pupkin meant: i can't test it fully as for now00:14
vasily_pupkin:)00:14
javispedrovasily_pupkin: ah, fine.00:14
kirmais it just me or is this maemo sdk + esbox somehow particularly fragile, or hard to understand piece of stuff?00:15
vasily_pupkinthank you for help and software :)00:15
javispedrovasily_pupkin: thank you for testing. it's a scaring piece of software and I have few testers :)00:15
till-nokia offers free ovi maps 3 licenes00:15
GeneralAntilleslol, Amazon keeps adding $5 to the promotional store credit they're giving out for Modern Warfare 2 pre-orders.00:16
Shapeshiftertill-: where and why00:16
till-at least on nokia.de00:16
Shapeshifterah, 7-day00:16
till-nope00:16
Shapeshifterthe beta, or waht00:16
till-unlimitet00:16
till-*ed00:16
lardman|chefnight all00:17
*** lardman|chef has quit IRC00:17
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC00:17
*** crashanddie__ has joined #maemo00:17
*** mgedmin has quit IRC00:17
dmj7261till: for maemo?00:18
till-not sure, i have an n8200:18
till-and it seems to work00:18
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo00:19
Shapeshifterit's de only it seems.00:20
till-yeah, i got the licence key via sms00:20
*** hellwolf has quit IRC00:20
till-just resetted my phone yesterday to try maps 3.0 :)00:21
*** hannesw has quit IRC00:21
till-nice gift00:21
*** igagis has quit IRC00:21
*** mgedmin_ has joined #maemo00:22
Shapeshifteris it any good?00:23
mgedmin_are there any freely redistributable quake3 data files? e.g. demo?00:23
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, yes00:23
GeneralAntillesOr Open Arena00:23
*** mgedmin has quit IRC00:23
mgedmin_url?00:23
till-better than maps 2.0 i would say00:24
wirelessdreamermgedmin_: openarena.ws00:24
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.quake3arena.com/games/quake/quake3-arena/index.php?game_section=demo00:24
GeneralAntillesOpen Arena is in Extras-devel.00:24
*** millenomi has left #maemo00:26
mgedmin_"E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/."00:26
*** TomaszD has quit IRC00:26
woglindemgedmin_ run apt-get clean00:27
mgedmin_not surprising, given "Need to get 308MB of archives."00:27
mgedmin_maybe I don't want to do that over my 0.3 Mbit/s 3g00:27
woglinde*g*00:27
qwerty12_N810mgedmin_: I symlinked it to /opt...00:27
*** `0660 has quit IRC00:27
lcukis that even possible on the device?00:27
woglindeqwerty on my eeepc with ssd its linked to ram00:27
mgedmin_why isn't it a symlink by default?00:28
woglindehaha00:28
qwerty12_N810Heh00:28
woglindebecause the didnt run apt through optifier?00:28
qwerty12_N810mgedmin_: Because they want to use the Application manager, which uses the 32GB for its own archives folder00:28
mgedmin_hm00:29
woglindeqwerty bah00:29
*** DarwinSurvivor has quit IRC00:33
*** nielsslot has quit IRC00:33
*** DarwinSurvivor has joined #maemo00:34
*** geaaru has quit IRC00:34
*** generatorglukoff has quit IRC00:37
*** generatorglukoff has joined #maemo00:38
*** mgedmin_ has quit IRC00:39
*** MrGoose has joined #maemo00:39
*** jakemaheu has quit IRC00:40
*** javispedro has quit IRC00:42
* crashanddie__ needs to stop trolling on tmo00:44
lcukhttp://www.xkcd.com/644/00:44
lcukhahaha00:44
crashanddie__GeneralAntilles, I blame you00:44
GeneralAntillescrashanddie__, give in to your anger!00:44
* crashanddie__ turns green00:44
crashanddie__RRROOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRR00:44
*** CrazyRobot has joined #maemo00:45
*** javispedro has joined #maemo00:48
*** decasm has left #maemo00:49
*** pablo_ has quit IRC00:50
*** sphenxes has quit IRC00:50
*** dolphin has quit IRC00:54
* timeless kicks tigert00:55
timelesstigert: you are aware that MyDocs is VFAT00:55
timelessand that linux apps like having executable bits (not typically supported by VFAT)00:55
timelesswhich means that symlinking /opt as a whole to MyDocs would of course break everything that installs there00:56
GeneralAntillesHere00:56
GeneralAntilless/r/h/00:56
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Hehe00:56
wazd_what do you guys think? http://s58.radikal.ru/i160/0910/76/ebf7c570a2f2.jpg00:56
timelessepa: the same general note applies to you00:56
timelessplease don't feed the clueless00:56
GeneralAntillesWhy does it need the version in the title?00:57
javispedroeasy solved by marking everything on MyDocs executable. then wait for when someone needs a symlink and then made the über proper hack: bring back UMSDOS!00:57
wazd_GeneralAntilles: ask VDVsx :D00:57
*** CrazyRobot has quit IRC00:57
* timeless slaps javispedro00:57
qwerty12_N810wazd_: Remove the .org from the bottom00:57
timelesswazd: um00:58
* qwerty12_N810 hides00:58
timelesscan you *please* make the font size *much* larger?00:58
timelessjust because the nokia ui team is braindead doesn't mean you should follow their model00:58
GeneralAntilleslol00:58
lcuki think aSIMULAtor will kick ur ass for that comment00:58
GeneralAntilleswazd_, not sure I love the icons.00:59
timelessi highly doubt it00:59
lcuklol00:59
vasily_pupkinanybody know, how can i open maemo virtual keyboard and resize window at once in not hildonized application? :]00:59
GeneralAntilleswazd_, they don't really fit with the rest of the system.00:59
wazd_GeneralAntilles: rest of what system?00:59
timelessis bluemaemo related to bluetooth?00:59
GeneralAntillesMaemo 500:59
timelessbecause if it is, the icons totally failed00:59
timelesstitles shouldn't include version numbers01:00
wazd_GeneralAntilles: well, it's not maemo 5 exclusive so it has it's own icon style01:00
wazd_timeless: oh, why so?01:00
lcukmost linux apps dont even include the version in them01:00
timelessbluetooth has standard icons for listening for connections01:00
GeneralAntillesuser/multimedia is wrong01:00
lcukits worrying complex to find the real version01:00
wazd_forget the version in the title, it's just a mockup :)01:00
timelessheh, BBC made BBC news01:01
* crashanddie__ finally updated his maemo.org profile01:01
lcukim sure bbc news people smirked when they saw protestors being dragged out01:01
wazd_timeless: why icons are failed?01:01
GeneralAntillesHrm, we want BlueMaemo in System, right?01:02
timelesshttp://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=bluetooth+icon&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-801:02
timelesshttp://images.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=bluetooth+icon&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=Z9bgSvz4Ao21sAaf1aWxDQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQsAQwAA&ei=e9bgSvCoEZm4sgbK87GfDQ&gbv=201:02
qwerty12_N810Eww, "client=safari"01:02
wazd_http://s48.radikal.ru/i121/0910/44/fd7efd712ce7.jpg01:02
timelessthe bluetooth pattern is fairly universally recognized01:03
timelessqwerty12: shh01:03
qwerty12_N810Yessir :(01:03
*** briglia has quit IRC01:03
nnod_does anyone know whether it is possible to access the internal gps using Gypsy?01:03
javispedrorelol.01:03
wazd_timeless: well, I don't think that placing BT logo everywhere is a good idea :)01:03
*** zerojayN900 has joined #maemo01:04
* lcuk should possibly add those buttons to my remote01:04
timelesswazd: anyway, listening to bluetooth is spupposed to have a fairly specific icon01:04
lcukbut ive never lost connection since i built it :S01:04
wazd_timeless: BlueMaemo has it's own app icon - I think it's more that enough to determine that it's connected with bt :D http://tabletui.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/shot11.jpg?w=800&h=48001:04
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC01:04
lcukmmm wazd01:05
lcukthats the app icon or the about one01:05
wazd_lcuk: both01:05
nnod_i should rephrase: is there a way of accessing the default GPS device (internal or BT) over dbus?01:08
* timeless frowns01:09
*** matt_c has joined #maemo01:09
timelesson windows / maemo there's a visual distinction between listening and not listenin01:09
timelessg01:09
timelessbut i can't find pictures for it01:09
vasily_pupkinanybody have problems with pidgin?01:10
javispedroow wow. 2012 is a real movie O.O ? i though it was a freacking parody.01:11
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, saw the trailer last week.01:11
GeneralAntillesI laughed the whole way through.01:11
wazd_javispedro: 2012 is a real year :D01:11
GeneralAntillesIt's basically a demo for the studio that did the 3d effects.01:12
javispedroGeneralAntilles: me too. and instantly though "from the same people who brought you scary movie"01:12
GeneralAntillesHehe01:12
javispedroand now here I am reading a completely serious wikipedia article about it.01:12
*** matt_c has quit IRC01:12
wazd_GeneralAntilles: and surprisingly, Michael Bay did nothing to it01:12
aSIMULAturOMGWTFBBQ WE R GOING TO DIE AHHHHHH01:12
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Eh, Scary Movie was funny, don't you dare be knocking it01:12
GeneralAntilleswazd_!01:13
javispedroqwerty12_N810: not saying it was awful. just that this 2012 looked like a disaster movie parody.01:13
GeneralAntilleswazd_, the new Nightmare on Elm Street trailer showed just before the 2012 trailer.01:13
GeneralAntillesI asked my friend if he also through they reversed the Michael Bay credit.01:13
*** herzi has quit IRC01:13
GeneralAntilles(since Michael Bay produced the new Nightmare on Elm Street)01:14
wazd_GeneralAntilles: Bay is now sitting and thinking: "Oh yeah?! You think that's Epic?! Next time I'll blow up the whole Milky Way!111"01:14
acidjazzdamnit http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?s=996247dd33b7472cd61d08332e47b6ce&p=355093&postcount=42301:14
javispedroheh, even Peter had to calm down the masses.01:15
pupnik_i want to calm down the pizza01:15
javispedroi know better ways of calming down the masses.01:15
pupnik_or that way combine random01:16
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo01:16
pupnik_where's the maemo5 games posse01:16
GeneralAntillespupnik_, color fax me some pizza please?01:16
pupnik_exult, gemrb01:16
*** hannesw_ has quit IRC01:16
wazd_javispedro: you're the one with the device so shut up! :D01:16
pupnik_GeneralAntilles: you know which gcc version n900 uses?01:16
javispedrowazd_: yes!! my precious palm m130!!01:16
*** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo01:16
pupnik_palm has another connotation...01:16
aSIMULAturput xanax in the water01:16
GeneralAntillespupnik_, dunno, but it's newer than the one Maemo 4 uses?01:17
* qwerty12_N810 is still op of #idonthaveann900...01:17
javispedropupnik_: gcc version 4.2.101:17
javispedrocs2007q3-glibc2.5-i48601:17
pupnik_think it's up to date?01:18
pupnik_coretex a8 is old enough01:18
*** panaggio has quit IRC01:18
javispedrowell, no. there was talks about omap3 optimizations in more recent gcc versions.01:18
MaceN8x0mer 0.17 yet?01:18
MaceN8x0:)01:18
javispedro~qwerty12--01:18
*** chelli has quit IRC01:18
qwerty12_N810Grr01:19
MaceN8x0javispedro, how about a proper kernel first?01:19
MaceN8x0:)01:19
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC01:19
javispedroMaceN8x0: well, I'm still using 2.6.26 myself, so...01:19
*** GAN800 has joined #maemo01:19
vasily_pupkin2.6.26 on tablet device?01:20
*** jospoortvliet has quit IRC01:20
javispedrono, on desktop :P01:20
vasily_pupkin:]01:20
javispedrotablet has the usual .2101:20
GeneralAntillesAh, forgot to ask X-Fade about cloaks today.01:20
pupnik_there's just no pizza or boobs in irc01:21
lcukwhich of your accounts are you getting cloaked GeneralAntilles01:21
lcukto also tie in with karma from irc01:21
pupnik_and that, sirs, is what makes me bid you adieu this evening01:21
qwerty12_N810javispedro: grr01:21
*** kleetus has quit IRC01:21
GeneralAntilleslcuk, erm, they're grouped01:21
lcukcentralize so people will know theres only 1 you01:21
qwerty12_N810bye, pupnik_01:21
javispedrognite pupnik_01:21
*** kr1shnak has quit IRC01:22
lcukgnite pupnik_ i hope your boob hunt is fruitful01:22
*** jospoortvliet has joined #maemo01:22
MaceN8x0javispedro, heh01:23
*** Vulcanis has quit IRC01:25
*** hellwolf-n810 has joined #maemo01:27
*** panaggio has joined #maemo01:28
*** shdb has quit IRC01:30
* javispedro angry!01:30
*** crashanddie__ has quit IRC01:31
*** zerojayN900 has quit IRC01:32
*** cbgb has left #maemo01:32
*** crashanddie__ has joined #maemo01:33
*** jospoortvliet has quit IRC01:33
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC01:33
*** danilocesar has quit IRC01:34
* javispedro mad!01:34
* javispedro gets revenge on qwerty12_N81001:34
javispedrohe banned me from #idonthaveann900 :(01:35
*** shdb has joined #maemo01:35
qwerty12_N810That's because you have one!01:35
*** hardaker has joined #maemo01:36
w00tthere's a channel for us less fortunate folks?01:36
* w00t pricks ears01:36
javispedroyes, they used to give free n900s there. and I used to be the OP :(01:36
w00t:-)01:37
qwerty12_N810Yeah, but the OP there is a prick and he now has one...01:37
w00t:-(01:37
w00tI really want my device so I can get down to dev and experimentation.. emulating is so not the same thing :p01:37
javispedroand the current OP there not only has a device, but is also a minor.01:38
javispedro>:)01:38
qwerty12_N810w00t: Grab any picture of an N900 and visualise! :p01:38
w00thttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=355971#post355971 <- that was posted in good humour, but now i'm starting to wonder if I should edit it ;-)01:38
*** etrunko has quit IRC01:39
w00tqwerty12_N810: oh dear god, i'm trying to avoid any more pictures and videos01:39
*** rsalveti has quit IRC01:39
w00tI've been obsessed ever since announcement, before, in fact, because I had an inkling something was coming01:39
w00tbut the past few weeks have been really bad01:39
qwerty12_N810w00t: I'll hit the non-existent Thanks! button, as that post is in Off Topic01:40
javispedrono device, no invite, no estore.01:40
qwerty12_N810Thread, I guess...01:40
qwerty12_N810javispedro: No one appears to have recieved an e-mail back :/01:40
javispedroqwerty12_N810: so if you known it all the time why were you teasing me! :(01:41
w00tqwerty12_N810: hahaha01:41
qwerty12_N810:)01:42
* javispedro buys technical support for 12 months for the sake of it.01:42
* javispedro opens his wallet and looks... I think I'll have enough.01:43
qwerty12_N810"Hiya, my tablet isn't turning on. Reflash. <Hang up>"01:44
*** macmaN6789 has quit IRC01:44
*** chenca has quit IRC01:44
*** sleipnir has quit IRC01:44
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]01:44
*** MrGoose has left #maemo01:45
wiretappedhttp://n900blog.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/1253672342196.jpg01:45
wiretappedcan someone put that in the /topic please?01:45
javispedrowiretapped: hey, I was just watching THAT SAME IMAGE on tvtropes.01:45
javispedroit must be still on one of my three billion open tabs..01:46
*** andre__ has quit IRC01:46
*** zerojayN900 has joined #maemo01:47
*** florian has quit IRC01:48
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, it's all of 3-4 weeks. <_<01:52
*** cirzgamanti` has joined #maemo01:54
*** dev-zero has quit IRC01:55
*** orbarron is now known as orbarron|OoO01:55
*** zap_ has quit IRC01:57
*** fab has quit IRC01:58
*** aakashd has left #maemo01:58
*** bbns has quit IRC01:59
*** BBNS has joined #maemo02:00
*** lbt has quit IRC02:04
*** dev-zero has joined #maemo02:08
*** aakashd has joined #maemo02:09
*** cirzgamanti has quit IRC02:10
pupnik_we are all trapped02:12
pupnik_what do we want to do, in the box02:12
*** benh has joined #maemo02:12
*** Xisdibik has quit IRC02:12
timelesshave people used http://maemo.org/packages/view/n900-fmrx-enabler/ ?02:13
*** panaggio has quit IRC02:16
*** dl9pf has quit IRC02:18
*** dl9pf has joined #maemo02:18
*** BBNS has quit IRC02:19
*** BBNS has joined #maemo02:19
GeneralAntillestimeless, I used the FM Radio application.02:22
GeneralAntillesWhich probably depends on that.02:22
*** eichi has quit IRC02:23
GeneralAntillesAny other handouts I should print out for the Mer booth at FLS?02:23
*** Andril has joined #maemo02:26
MaceN8x0it is always fun to get developers all riled up02:26
MaceN8x0:)02:27
*** wazd_ has quit IRC02:30
*** panaggio has joined #maemo02:31
*** aakashd has quit IRC02:36
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo02:37
*** aakashd has joined #maemo02:38
*** Sargun has quit IRC02:47
zerojayHow long before one of you makes a "Hitler waits for N900" subtitle video?02:48
SpeedEvilhttp://lh6.ggpht.com/_COt6T7Tmrok/SuBPtuBzfvI/AAAAAAAAAoo/LHskug3S_-E/s800/dsc_1576.jpg02:50
SpeedEvil:)02:50
*** MUEP_ is now known as muep_02:51
zerojayLinus? lol02:52
*** CutMeOwnThroat has joined #maemo02:52
*** KMFDM has quit IRC02:53
javispedroI always asked which kind of person rushed to shops to buy retail operating systems.02:54
javispedroI guess I finally got the answer :)02:55
javispedrobtw, the picture makes a nice n900 background :P02:56
*** benh has quit IRC02:58
*** Mousey has quit IRC02:59
*** shdb has quit IRC03:00
zerojaySo to convert a regular microUSB cable into something that will charge, both data lines must be cut, correct?03:01
*** shdb has joined #maemo03:01
zerojayCharge in a wallcharger, I mean.03:01
*** javispedro has quit IRC03:01
SpeedEvilAs I understand it, short the D lines03:01
*** trbs has quit IRC03:01
SpeedEvilbut I'd want to read the spec first again to make sure that's right03:02
zerojayYeah, please do. :)03:06
timeless_mbpi kinda suspect we want you guys to return your loaners in working condition03:07
timeless_mbpand preferably heavily used for the life of the loan ;-)03:07
pupnik_i kind of suspect the program is a bust03:07
pupnik_and a bad investment for nokia03:08
pupnik_because no easy bugreporting mechanism was implemented03:08
*** dmj7261 has quit IRC03:08
timeless_mbpum03:08
timeless_mbpbugs.maemo.org isn't easy?03:08
pupnik_right03:08
* timeless_mbp shrugs03:08
pupnik_right03:08
*** etrunko has joined #maemo03:08
timeless_mbpthe bust side has more to do w/ management03:08
timeless_mbpand certain leads03:08
* timeless_mbp is considering blogging about one of them03:08
timeless_mbpsince he's a nice public figure03:08
pupnik_i kind of suspect the lacking easy bug report with context of n900 loaner units was a big mistake03:09
pupnik_which the maemo bug guys made03:09
zerojaypupnik_: It doesn't get much easier than Bugzilla, honestly.03:09
pupnik_wrongly03:09
pupnik_want bet03:09
*** disco_stu has quit IRC03:10
zerojayShow me a bug tracker that has just as many features and is easier.03:10
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo03:10
pupnik_redefining the problem is an old trick which does not play with pupnik zerojay03:10
*** Anwarboy11 has joined #maemo03:10
*** jmc93739653 has joined #maemo03:11
pupnik_what is the score?03:11
pupnik_what is the number of new bugs since summit for fremantle03:11
zerojaypupnik_: It's not redefining anything. You say that our bug reporting mechanism isn't easy enough and I want to know what you're comparing that to.03:11
Anwarboy11Can somone help me coding in maemo?03:11
pupnik_zerojay: it's simple - allow users to submit bugs without manuall entering all the relevant context info03:11
timeless_mbp?03:12
Anwarboy11i have no coding knowledge where do i start what do i need?03:12
timeless_mbppupnik_: you can fill in as little info as you like03:12
pupnik_Anwarboy11: start coding on your pc03:12
zerojaypupnik_: Um... if they don't need to enter it, the info isn't relevant.03:12
Anwarboy11lol03:12
Anwarboy11pupnik03:12
timeless_mbpthe more info you provide the easier it is for your bug to be understood and fixed03:12
zerojaypupnik_: All that info is needed for fixing the bugs.. otherwise you might as well be posting "it doesn't work, fix it".03:12
pupnik_right, and most of that info is known to device03:12
timeless_mbpsomeone a while ago filed a bug against the browser03:12
Anwarboy11can you advice me on what language i  should learn first ....C perhaps?03:12
timeless_mbpbut provided such terrible info03:12
ifreqAnwarboy11: english is a good starter03:13
cleary_pupnik_: the downside to a "simple" bug tracking interface, is the signal to noise ratio turns to poo03:13
timeless_mbpthat i had to twist my head around a couple of times to determine what the person was experiencing03:13
Anwarboy11lol03:13
pupnik_the general n900 audience is not skilled with bugzilla03:13
Anwarboy11who said i don't know english03:13
timeless_mbppupnik_: so you'd rather file your bug using the device instead of using your desktop computer?03:13
*** JackBeSlow has joined #maemo03:13
pupnik_wake-up call to timeless_mbp and Jaffa and et al - it is 200903:13
zerojaypupnik_: Show us where there's a simpler bug tracker out there that you've used that's just as feature complete as Bugzilla and we'll be glad to adopt it, I'm sure.03:13
pupnik_no zerojay what about adding a n900 link03:14
Anwarboy11can someone please tell me where to start if i want to learn how to code apps for the n90003:14
cleary_getting the right balance of, just difficult enough to filter out the noise, and not too hard so as not to deter people who can provide good reports, is extremely difficult03:14
ifreqAnwarboy11: jk03:14
pupnik_that submits relevant info03:14
pupnik_very nice to see cleary_ here03:14
* zerojay sighs.03:14
timeless_mbphey, is samantha who worth watching?03:14
cleary_Anwarboy11: it's just not that simple03:14
Anwarboy11yh i know, but what help can you give me i dont know where to start03:14
cleary_Anwarboy11: can I suggest you grab a book called "Dive into python"03:14
*** promulo has joined #maemo03:14
pupnik_heh why do i bother here, i got better contacts03:15
JackBeSlowAnwarboy11, http://maemo.org/development/ would be a good place to start. What are you looking to develop?03:15
Anwarboy11python ok.. what about C03:15
cleary_Anwarboy11: if you've never programmed before, python is a nice language to start with03:15
Anwarboy11i thought that's the one used in maemo more03:15
cleary_C, not so much03:15
Anwarboy11hmm ok03:15
Anwarboy11python it is03:15
Anwarboy11anything else03:15
cleary_good luck03:15
Anwarboy11is it possible to run the maemo sdk on windows03:15
JackBeSlowNot that I know of03:16
Anwarboy11ok i must use my pendrive ubuntu03:16
Anwarboy11how much of python do i need to learn?03:16
JackBeSlowAnwarboy11, be warned the scratchbox dev environment takes up a lot of room.03:16
cleary_Anwarboy11: that's not a question that can be answered03:17
Anwarboy11im sure a 32 gb pendrive is big enuf?03:17
Anwarboy11hrmm i suppse03:17
JackBeSlowAnwarboy11, Depends on what you want to do, there are a lot of code examples around, mostly for C though.03:17
cleary_Anwarboy11: you learn the basic structures of the language, then you find a problem you want to solve, then you learn03:17
Anwarboy11after learning some python how would i imploy that into the maemo03:17
cleary_Anwarboy11: after you've learnt some python, the step from python to C is much smaller03:18
Anwarboy11oh ok03:18
zerojaypupnik_: If we were allowed to post bugs to Bugzilla before Summit, there would have been a TON of them already filed... but NDAs so we couldn't. Also, if there's not a lot of bugs being filed on Fremantle (which I haven't checked is true or not)... it kind of fits in with my own frustration on the lack of thumbs up in m.o/packages/.03:18
cleary_Anwarboy11: you get the source code for programs you like, or have similar functionality to something you want to do03:18
Anwarboy11so i shud learn them both before start coding for maemo03:18
pupnik_hm03:18
cleary_Anwarboy11: and you read and understand03:18
Anwarboy11kk03:19
Anwarboy11the only bit of programming ive done is basic html03:19
zerojaypupnik_: I guess the same answer I heard when I complained about the lack of thumbs up would apply to Bugzilla as well: we're busy on our own stuff.03:19
pupnik_zerojay.  we just gotta help make linux win the mobile device war03:19
pupnik_tell me what to do03:19
Anwarboy11anyone know what the new uk release for n900 is , on mobilephonesdirect?03:20
Anwarboy11i preorderd on there and was sad to knw i have to wait longer03:20
JackBeSlowzerojay, That seems to kind of defeat part of the purpose of giving devs loaner devices. I figured that there would be tons of bugs filed and fixed thanks to the loaners before they ever made it to stores.03:20
zerojaypupnik_: I feel the same way.03:20
pupnik_Anwarboy11: whatever, just get one.  they are really nice.03:20
zerojayJackBeSlow: Yeah, that's kind of my reaction too.03:20
Anwarboy11hell yh, im getting one ....when theyr released...03:20
JackBeSlowAnwarboy11, no idea03:21
SpeedEvilAnwarboy11: the nokia store says mid nov03:21
*** jmc93739653 has quit IRC03:21
Anwarboy11i emailed the mpd 2wice before today and they said 30th october03:21
Anwarboy11i presume theyl say somit else to the email i sent today03:21
Anwarboy11anyway ill be back tomoz with a book of python ! thanks 4 the advice?03:22
Anwarboy11cya guys03:22
zerojaypupnik_: I know you're enthusiastic and you're passionate and want to make Linux succeed and stuff like Bugzilla probably feels like a stumbling block to you and brings out your frustrations. I understand that.03:22
*** Anwarboy11 has left #maemo03:22
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC03:23
JackBeSlowzerojay, there are a million ways they could have solved that, one of the simpler ways being have a login required bugzilla page that only goes open when the NDA expires.03:23
zerojayJackBeSlow: It's not quite that simple.03:23
JackBeSlow:( It never is.03:23
zerojayAnd I doubt anyone in Nokia wanted to wade through pages of perl  to do it.03:23
zerojayBelieve me, I was pissed about that.03:23
pupnik_i am just going to take n900 to everyone i know03:24
pupnik_and shove it in their face03:24
pupnik_look!03:24
SpeedEvilOr is did03:24
zerojaypupnik_: Everyone I know that's seen it has had lust in their eyes.03:24
pupnik_same03:24
pupnik_i need new image so i can impress the girls zerojay03:24
pupnik_lol03:25
pupnik_no it's true03:25
JackBeSlowIt seems to me that feminine interest is inversely proportional to the coolness of the gadgets one owns.03:25
zashAnd from which part of the world are you?03:26
zashJapan?03:26
JackBeSlowUS03:26
cleary_ladies love the gadgets03:26
cleary_so long as the gadget does something they like03:27
cleary_...and that's where I encounter my issues ;)03:27
zerojayDude, if only I wasn't married my N900 would have gotten me laid so many times. lol03:27
JackBeSlowmore importantly something they deem as useful and worth the creation of a gadget.03:27
zerojayThey were flipping out about the integrated IM and SMS.03:27
zerojayAnd that facebook chat was coming soon.03:28
JackBeSlowWhen I explain that I can remotely control my computer via VNC with my 770 most girls scoff.03:28
* cleary_ is being sent to sleep by zerojay03:28
cleary_;)03:28
zerojaylol.03:28
cleary_I'm busting to see a quassel irc port for it03:28
zerojayAs soon as I said "facebook chat", everyone was like "I NEED THAT NOW."03:28
JackBeSlowlol03:28
JackBeSlowbut the iphone does that right?03:29
cleary_I've run the bog standard one on mer03:29
zerojayNo.03:29
JackBeSlowah03:29
zerojayiphone has no built-in IM.03:29
cleary_+n81003:29
zerojayAnd it can't run more than a single user app at a time.03:29
JackBeSlowNo but you can facebook chat via facebook.03:29
zerojayYeah, but it's terrible.03:29
JackBeSlowmakes sense.03:29
zerojayWhen I showed them the full site up... Youtube running... they were floored.03:30
zerojay"AND it's a phone too?"03:30
JackBeSlowI would love to be logged into all of my chat clients (as long as I can set up the appropriate invisible and ignore settings) at all times on my phone.03:30
cleary_JackBeSlow: kopete is probably closest to handling that03:31
zerojayJackBeSlow: Invisible isn't supported and status is set across all clients at once.03:31
JackBeSlowHeh, for now I use skype and kopete and then have a browser window open.03:31
pupnik_our job is to make maemo rule the world03:31
pupnik_our job is to be the heroes of history03:31
*** woglinde has quit IRC03:32
pupnik_and to promote the wedge that will enable human freedom vs the global government03:32
zerojayI went to the Rogers below my work in my building and asked them for a battery for the 5800... didn't have any and I said "it's not the same phone but compatible."03:32
zerojayAnyways, I go back up to work.03:32
pupnik_i'm leading here, but just believe it03:32
JackBeSlowSo up until I saw one of the promotional videos for the n900 I have been pronouncing Maemo May-Mo03:32
GeneralAntillespupnik_, http://tinyurl.com/yguj5po03:32
zerojayA few hours later, the sales guy from Rogers was at our work door.03:32
GeneralAntillespupnik_, now kindly get over it re: Bugzilla.03:32
pupnik_ty GeneralAntilles03:33
pupnik_no i wont03:33
pupnik_because i'm right as always03:33
pupnik_but you will get used to that03:33
zerojay"Hi... you said you had a phone compatible with the 5800... but there's only one, the n900."03:33
zerojay"Yes. And?"03:33
zerojay"... Can I see it?"03:33
GeneralAntilles:roll:03:33
GeneralAntillespupnik_, the system's not perfect, but we're working on it.03:33
zerojayMy boss looked at me and goes "...go ahead and sell him on it."03:33
zerojayThe guy knew where to find me because my company used to make cell games, so we always were dealing with the Rogers downstairs.03:34
GeneralAntillespupnik_, the whole "Bugzilla sucks and you guys suck and the system sucks" isn't a productive way to be "right".03:34
MaceN8x0haha03:34
pupnik_no i make specific suggestions GeneralAntilles03:34
pupnik_maybe we can actually implement?03:34
MaceN8x0sure it is03:35
zerojaypupnik_: What we really need to do is upgrade Bugzilla because a lot more customization options become available to us.03:35
*** fiferboy has joined #maemo03:35
zerojayThink it's still 2.x03:35
GeneralAntillesHey, who woulda guessed. People are working on that!03:35
pupnik_how about one link for "i am a n900 prototype user" that fills in relevant fields03:35
SpeedEvilOr simply take video bugs03:35
GeneralAntillespupnik_, ditch the attitude.03:35
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Yep, I know.03:35
GeneralAntillesIt's not helpful.03:35
pupnik_GeneralAntilles: my attitude is just ignorance03:36
GeneralAntillespupnik_, clearly.03:36
MaceN8x0so when is the n900 being released?03:36
pupnik_but that is often a signal03:36
*** frade_ has joined #maemo03:36
MaceN8x0next year? :)03:36
GeneralAntillesMaceN8x0, November.03:36
pupnik_a signal that something could use work03:36
pupnik_right let me put it another way03:36
pupnik_i have a bugreport for n900 prototype03:37
GeneralAntilleszerojay, rcadden is such a creeper.03:37
MaceN8x0in 2010 we were supposed to be on manned missions to jupiter according to hollywood03:37
pupnik_it would take me 4 minutes to type in the text03:37
zerojayGeneralAntilles: lol03:37
pupnik_if i go to bugzilla, i have to spend an afternoon learning it03:37
pupnik_that is a barrier to the point of bugreporting03:37
GeneralAntilleszerojay, that stupid frat-boy face he has in his avatar sums him up really well.03:37
GeneralAntillespupnik_, so you're saying it shouldn't ask you to provide info?03:38
GeneralAntillespupnik_, how in the world will anybody be able to fix the bug then?03:38
pupnik_the info that is known should not be entered manually03:38
pupnik_capiche?03:38
pupnik_you are not stupid03:39
pupnik_do not pretend to be so03:39
GeneralAntillesBut that info isn't known.03:39
GeneralAntillesOK, you have an N900 proto03:39
pupnik_it is on device03:39
GeneralAntillesWhat software version are you running?03:39
pupnik_all versions of everything are known03:39
GeneralAntillesSo you want a Bugzilla front-end in GTK?03:39
JackBeSlowGah, I hate to see devs fight.03:39
* GeneralAntilles isn't a dev.03:39
pupnik_we are not fighting03:39
MaceN8x0haha03:39
cleary_^ that would be handy03:39
JackBeSlowGeneralAntilles, Actually that would be nice...03:40
zerojayJackBeSlow: Haw haw. ;P03:40
zerojayThere are bugzilla frontends.03:40
MaceN8x0youre ruining halloween for the family!!03:40
GeneralAntilleszerojay, they're all worse than the web front end.03:40
GeneralAntillescleary_, it'd be great, but finding the people with time to implement that is a problem.03:40
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Not all... but I doubt anyone wants to pay cash for their copy.03:40
pupnik_zerojay: i think the number of bugs from the program indicates a problem, maybe i am wrong.  i think there should be a simpler way to report bugs with context.03:40
GeneralAntilleszerojay, fair enough, I've never seen any paid ones.03:40
JackBeSlowbut one on the n900 that could autofill a lot of the fields... I mean it should not be the normal way of entering bugs, but it would be cool. Especially for an end user.03:40
cleary_GeneralAntilles: cause they're all busy learning the bugzilla webfrontend03:41
GeneralAntillespupnik_, 399 aint bad by my book.03:41
cleary_:P couldn't resist03:41
zerojaypupnik_: Number of bugs from what program?03:41
GeneralAntillescleary_, we've got a guided submission form that's still waiting to be made live.03:41
pupnik_399?03:41
pupnik_GeneralAntilles: got a link?03:41
JackBeSlowcleary_, Oh come on, it is not THAT complicated.03:41
GeneralAntillesFor people without can-confirm.03:41
pupnik_i can be totally wrong here03:41
cleary_haha - settle down, I was joking03:41
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Oh yes, I remember timeless was going to implement that quite a while ago.03:41
JackBeSlowlol03:41
cleary_pupnik_'s the serious one ;_)03:41
*** etrunko has quit IRC03:42
zerojaypupnik_: The guided bug entry thing is exactly what you're looking for.03:42
GeneralAntillespupnik_, about 10 minutes ago.03:42
GeneralAntillespupnik_, the tinyurl link.03:42
GeneralAntilleshttp://tinyurl.com/yguj5po03:42
zerojayGeneralAntilles: I think he means the guided bug entry.03:42
pupnik_thanks03:42
GeneralAntillesUm, yeah, I end up needing that to show somebody once every 3 months or so03:43
GeneralAntillesbut I can never remember the URL format and never bother to save it when I find it.03:43
GeneralAntillesAh, here it is. https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=browser&format=guided03:44
pupnik_i have totally failed to communicate03:44
pupnik_ah well, happens03:44
pupnik_you should have 300 "this doesn't work" reports for each bug03:44
zerojaypupnik_: That look better to you? It's still not n900 specific but...03:44
cleary_pupnik_: as I understand it, your point is that if you are submitting the bug on-device, there is a lot of bugzilla info that can be auto completed03:44
pupnik_ty03:44
pupnik_right03:45
pupnik_exactly cleary_03:45
GeneralAntillespupnik_, I'd sure hope not, then I'd have to kill a lot of people for filling dupes.03:45
cleary_pupnik_: the problem I see with that is:03:45
pupnik_bug on specific device, specific release, provide link for speficic group03:45
GeneralAntillespupnik_, what if you're filing a bug from the device about another release?03:45
* GeneralAntilles has done that a few times.03:45
pupnik_sigh03:46
GeneralAntillesYou need to select an item from one dropdown and add a version string to the comment field in the form.03:46
GeneralAntillesThat's not 4 minutes of work.03:46
pupnik_yes that would not apply03:46
pupnik_hi, i would like to eat ice cream, how does that reflect your pad thai sales03:46
cleary_how much of that information is presented by your browser?03:46
GeneralAntilles59 reporters.03:47
JackBeSlowGeneralAntilles, did you happen to develop for the Zaurus back in the day?03:47
GeneralAntillescleary_, useragent strings are automatically added to the bottom of the comment field.03:47
GeneralAntillesJackBeSlow, I never owned a Zaurus03:47
JackBeSlowI felt like I recognize that nick outside of this channel, aw well guess not03:48
GeneralAntillesThe 770 was announced before I pulled the trigger on the SL-6000.03:48
GeneralAntillesJackBeSlow, likely, I've been around.03:48
JackBeSlowGeneralAntilles, But I haven't.03:48
GeneralAntillesNewton, AmbrosiaSW, half the Mac forums out there.03:48
JackBeSlowcleary_, I think you have a point there. Which is why a dedicated program seems like the only thing that would provide pupnik_ with what he wants.03:51
MaceN8x0hm03:52
JackBeSlowI might of set to work on one if I actually owned a n900 right now.03:52
MaceN8x0why cant someone just mod maemo5 for an n810?03:53
MaceN8x0now that there will be gles drivers/libs03:53
JackBeSlowI am sure it would be possible with time there have been plenty of HEs released for older devices. I am still running a 770 with 2008 and 2007HE03:54
cleary_JackBeSlow: yeah, that's my point03:54
zerojayI think people are overestimating how much performance those drivers will give us.03:54
cleary_JackBeSlow: an option would be a sysinfo style app that outputs in some standardised format which you can give to bugzilla03:54
GeneralAntillesMaceN8x0, Mer 0.1703:55
MaceN8x0GeneralAntilles, heh03:56
MaceN8x0is it out?03:56
GeneralAntillesThere's a crash reporter that sends coredumps to Nokia.03:56
GeneralAntillesMaceN8x0, are the drivers out?03:56
MaceN8x0dont know03:56
cleary_MaceN8x0: I'm running mer on an n810 here03:56
GeneralAntillesNo.03:56
MaceN8x0know they were supposed to be released soon03:56
GeneralAntillesThis week supposedly.03:56
GeneralAntillesMay have been pushed back yet.03:56
* cleary_ may have misunderstood the context of this mer discussion ;)03:56
JackBeSlowcleary_, I have been wanting to check out Mer but I really like my current setup with the 770 and I haven't really been able to find much on Mer as far as applications...and an OS without applications is not useful to me yet.03:57
MaceN8x0JackBeSlow, the ui is very underdeveloped03:58
cleary_JackBeSlow: you have access to ubuntu repos03:58
JackBeSlowah misread what you said thought you were saying you were running Mer on the n81003:58
MaceN8x0maybe soon it will take a front seat once they are done setting up the base03:58
JackBeSlowcleary_, Yeah, but that doesn't mean I will be able to find anything that I can usefully use on a screen that size.03:59
MaceN8x0i have03:59
cleary_JackBeSlow: yeah03:59
cleary_that is an issue03:59
MaceN8x0right now i just use maemo403:59
cleary_they've rebuilt some core stuff (qt for example)03:59
MaceN8x0i just wish we could get maemo5 on this thing03:59
cleary_but there's still issues, packaging conflicts and such03:59
MaceN8x0with compass support and an activated death ray03:59
pupnik_why do you care04:00
pupnik_i want people to control their computing devices04:00
pupnik_so the terminator global government will not exterimate us all04:00
pupnik_that's why i like maemo04:00
pupnik_oh sorry, making sense again04:01
SpeedEvilrelevant xkcd is relevant04:02
*** frade_ has quit IRC04:03
zerojaypupnik_: Terminator global government? lol wut04:07
*** cotigao has joined #maemo04:07
pupnik_i got  lots of links zerojay - sorry for the OT04:08
*** krutt has joined #maemo04:09
pupnik_but believe me, maemo is good04:09
pupnik_and there is a lot of evil shit04:09
pupnik_we need to get maemo to be fun and awesome04:10
pupnik_and then avail on cheaper phones04:10
SpeedEvilGive it 4 years04:11
GeneralAntillesBy then OMAP3 will be the new S40 platform. ;)04:13
zerojayBy that time, all mobile chips will be 64-bit. ;P04:13
zerojayMulticore monsters.04:14
*** felipec has quit IRC04:15
*** cjdavis is now known as cjdavis_afk04:18
*** beavis has quit IRC04:22
*** tonikitoo has joined #maemo04:23
*** jhford is now known as zz_jhford04:23
*** b-man17 has joined #maemo04:24
b-man17~seen xnt1404:24
infobotxnt14 <n=xnt14@pool-98-113-71-187.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 21h 27m 52s ago, saying: ':P'.04:24
*** LB has joined #maemo04:25
MaceN8x0what kind of webcam type stuff will the n900 have?04:25
MaceN8x0like. a jingle that works with google video?04:25
MaceN8x0instead of the n8x0 letdown04:25
*** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC04:27
thpMaceN8x0: no video calling in the initial firmware release; might come with an update akaik04:27
*** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo04:27
wiretappedthp: lol wut?04:28
wiretappednone at all?04:28
wiretappednot even to other maemo devices, like n8x0 shipped with?04:28
wiretappedthats it, i'm buying a droid04:29
wiretapped(=not really=)04:29
pupnik_what use case is android better-for?04:30
thpthe first community app to support the front-facing cam is atilla's mirror04:30
*** shdb has quit IRC04:30
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, well, it is just v4l2 and Telepathy. . . .04:30
pupnik_being strapped to a NaOH dildo and dragged along an elephant migration?04:31
GeneralAntillespupnik_, people who like being locked into Google's ecosystem.04:31
pupnik_ok04:31
*** shdb has joined #maemo04:31
GeneralAntillespupnik_, jinx!04:31
pupnik_:)04:31
pupnik_but seriously there must be *something*04:32
pupnik_some awesome reason to strap yourself down with duct tape04:32
wiretappedGeneralAntilles: would you believe i know android users who have never made a google account?04:32
GeneralAntillesIt's the most open thing you can get subsidized.04:33
*** Sho_ has quit IRC04:33
wiretappedit is possible04:33
GeneralAntillesIt has apps04:33
GeneralAntillesIt's generally functional for most people.04:33
wiretappedfrom a licensing standpoint, android is a lot more open than maemo04:33
pupnik_oh?04:33
wiretappedpractically speaking, on the other hand...04:33
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, I also know iPhone users who don't have iTunes accounts and user their devices on $NOTAT&T04:33
pupnik_there must be a reason i don't like android.  my brain knows it but hasn't told me yet/.04:34
GeneralAntillesTheir governance model is evil.04:34
cleary_that pretty much accounts for all iphone users I knpow04:34
pupnik_ty GeneralAntilles04:34
GeneralAntillesand licensing standpoints don't mean much when Google pulls out the DMCA on hackers.04:34
wiretappedyeah04:34
GeneralAntillesOpen source code doesn't help users if they can't do anything with it.04:34
wiretappedbut it is possible to use it as a phone with a community-built firmware image04:35
wiretappedit remains to be seen how that will work on n90004:35
wiretappedafaik04:35
GeneralAntillesShould work fine.04:35
wiretappedwith what UI?04:35
wiretappedisn't lots of nokia's still closed?04:35
GeneralAntillesand by "community-built" do you mean Debian or Android with patches?04:35
wiretappedi mean android with patches04:35
GeneralAntillesOh, psh.04:35
wiretappedbut debian too, i guess04:36
wiretappedi've been extremely tempated to get an android phone04:37
wiretappedi only haven't because i don't like java, or having a google account04:37
GeneralAntillesMy two biggest issues with Android are the governance model and the fact that they break with standard Linux (no X, no real toolkits, Java, etc.)04:37
wiretappedand because i knew maemo5 was coming soon04:37
GeneralAntillesAndroid is just serving to suck developers away from a real Linux platform.04:37
wiretappedyeah04:37
pupnik_yeah GeneralAntilles - kind of like an 'application' in your pocket rather than a computer04:37
GeneralAntillesOne that could actually reduce the fragmentation to a point where it's not killing mobile open source.04:37
*** dmj7262 has joined #maemo04:38
wiretappedlinux is just their HAL04:38
wiretappedi, too, want a linux + common linux userland phone04:38
wiretappedhence my presence here04:38
Firebirdhttp://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9859/uimock.png Looking a bit more hildon guideline friendly?04:39
wiretappedi don't think android is that harmful, its popularity is based on its merits04:39
GeneralAntilles"merits"04:39
*** howitzer` has quit IRC04:39
GeneralAntillesIt's conned people into believing it's an open platform.04:39
GeneralAntillesFirebird, nice.04:40
wiretappedthat is silly04:40
GeneralAntillesThough I'd go with green felt.04:40
wiretappedin what way is maemo more open?04:40
FirebirdGeneralAntilles, for the table?04:40
wiretappedi mean, other than it being compatible with desktop linux apps... ;)04:40
GeneralAntillesWell, for one, Nokia hasn't issued any DMCA take downs. ;)04:40
GeneralAntillesNokia actually has somewhat open governance.04:40
GeneralAntillesFirebird, yes.04:41
wiretappedlol04:41
dmj7262Android mostly looks open when compared to iphone's OS04:41
*** RobertH[AU] has joined #maemo04:41
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, see the recent /opt discussion for an (if somewhat embarrassing) example of Nokia's more open governance.04:41
wiretappedi'm not familiar04:42
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, basically, the architecture was decided between Nokia and the community.04:42
GeneralAntillesSame thing for the package categories for h-a-m.04:42
wiretappeddmj7262: android looks open when compared to everything else that has shipped (except openmoko..)04:42
*** aakashd has quit IRC04:43
wiretappedcategories schmategories04:43
dmj7262wiretapped: you'll need to amend that statement in november :D04:43
wiretappedwhere can I see nokia's dialer code?04:43
wiretappedI'd like to dial04:43
wiretappedis it open? I have no idea, but I'm guessing that if it is, it isn't yet04:44
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, you don't see Google collaborating with the community like that.04:44
dmj7262I used to be looking really closely at Android until the n900 was announced.04:44
pupnik_we can get bootloaders, kernel modules04:44
pupnik_with maemo04:44
GeneralAntillesI consider compatibility with desktop Linux a big factor in openness, too.04:44
pupnik_yes04:44
GeneralAntillesOtherwise you're just getting locked into somebody's ecosystem with every line of code you write.04:44
lcukisnt java compatible with desktops?04:45
wiretappedpupnik_: are there closed kernel modules on android?!04:45
GeneralAntilleslcuk, Davlik isn't available for every platform.04:45
pupnik_dunno04:45
cleary_the obvious benefit to desktop linux compatibility is a massive pool of applications04:45
lcukGeneralAntilles, its exactly the same with every decision you make04:45
GeneralAntilleslcuk, bullshit.04:45
wiretappedGeneralAntilles: about nokia DMCA takedowns... his blog is down now, but iirc thoughtfix got one once04:45
lcukif you make your code in gtk, you are just as locked to someone elses path as if you chose .net04:45
GeneralAntilleslcuk, Qt gets you onto nearly everything out there.04:45
dmj7262well, we're sorta getting locked into the maemo ecosystem.04:46
lcukqt might, but its just as locked04:46
*** radic has quit IRC04:46
wiretappedhttp://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:tabletblog.com/2007/06/whats-youtube-dmca-complaint-like.html04:46
pupnik_wiretapped: if android is good about something, i would like to learn04:46
pupnik_ty04:46
*** radic has joined #maemo04:46
lcukGeneralAntilles, supposing there was 1 true language,  with the perfect api and the perfect filesystem and ran everywhere04:46
dmj7262...though it wouldn't be hard to rewrite a maemo app for another debian based phone OS04:46
lcukbut you werent allowed to eat the apple04:46
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I can't have these discussions with you.04:47
cleary_lcuk: I dispute that locked argument, for the simple fact that the final step of unlocking an open source app path, is a fork04:47
cleary_you cannot fork closed software04:47
lcukcleary_, we are on about the developer himself04:47
lcuknot what others do with it04:47
lcukif i write in gtk, i am locked to gtk04:47
dmj7262...assuming one made a debian based OS for another phone04:47
lcuki cannot simply choose to change direction half way through and say, you know what - today ill write for iphone04:48
pupnik_if cleary_ is who i think he is, it is great to have him in #maemo04:48
GeneralAntilleslcuk, point is you write for Android it gets to run on Android, you write for Qt and Maemo and you get to run on Symbian, Windows, Linux, OS X, etc.04:48
GeneralAntilleslcuk, but GTK can run on lots of platform.04:48
GeneralAntilless04:48
GeneralAntillesWhich is the whole point.04:48
lcukandroid runs in linux doesnt it04:48
lcukdidnt they announce an ubuntu port?04:48
GeneralAntilleslcuk, so stop dragging my discussions in weird directions. <_<04:48
*** buttholio has joined #maemo04:48
wiretappedGeneralAntilles: hildon doesn't run a lot of places04:48
wiretappedit could04:49
wiretappedbut so could dalvik04:49
*** Xisdibik has joined #maemo04:49
cleary_pupnik_: I am who you think I am - I'm here as a spectator for now though :)04:49
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, the difference between maemo-gtk and gtk is a lot smaller than Davlik and gtk.04:49
wiretappedyou mean Dalvik and Java?04:49
* lcuk will write in WRT :)04:49
GeneralAntillesAndroid doesn't have x, which makes things more complicated.04:50
lcuka normal app should never care about x04:50
lcukqt apps dont04:50
lcukgtk meh shouldnt04:50
wiretappedindeed. but that is about choice of open technology, rather than openness04:50
GeneralAntillesAnyway, whatever.04:50
GeneralAntillesI dislike Android and what it seems to be doing to mobile Linux.04:50
wiretappedI personally want a phone with X04:50
buttholiomust have X04:51
wiretappedLots of people I know want a phone they can hack on without fighting their OS vendor, and don't care about X04:51
lcukthe one thing this platform has above all others IS choice04:51
lcukand variety04:51
lcukmultiple frameworks coexisting04:51
cleary_I want a root04:51
wiretappedabout the dialer... does anyone know if that is open?04:51
lcukiphone == the iphone way04:51
cleary_account that I can get easily04:51
lcukdroid == the droid way04:51
lcukpre == the preway04:52
lcukmaemo == whatever dude04:52
wiretappedcleary_: nokia gives you instructions on getting root04:52
GeneralAntillescleary_, http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/software-freedom-lovers-here-comes-maemo-5/ ;)04:52
cleary_man, none of you have a sense of humour today ;)04:52
BBNSto be honest, general public doesn't care about having x or not. they just want to have a usable phone immediately, to allow them twit or play.04:52
wiretappedyup04:52
* lcuk digs up a plant and gives cleary_ root04:52
lcuk+111104:53
buttholioI care more about X and less about phone04:53
* cleary_ makes chips, but longs for the company of a woman instead04:53
pupnik_an exceptional woman, or a few average ones04:53
lcukbutthole i didnt think the phone was important.  boy was i wrong!04:54
BBNSi have worked with lots of developers. they just want to have fully integrated SDK, and easy to publish their apps, and dream about earning some coins probably.04:54
pupnik_logical preferences BBNS04:54
lcukbbns, weekend devs04:54
MaceN8x0omg04:54
BBNSit's like gold rush.04:54
MaceN8x0i hate rain!04:55
MaceN8x0HATE04:55
lcukdrive home on friday thinking of an app, have it done by sunday night04:55
MaceN8x0i need to move to a rainless forest04:55
pupnik_and make 30 dollars on it lcuk04:55
MaceN8x0joshua tree doesnt count04:55
wiretappeddo we know anything about a nokia application marketplace yet?04:55
BBNSlcuk: a lot of my friends too. as long as they saw the marketing base.04:55
GeneralAntillesOvi Store04:55
lcukpupnik_, for many the $30 isnt an issue04:55
lcukits the old shareware type days04:55
wiretappedSo, will the free apps remain in a ghetto elsewhere?04:56
lcukthey would finish it, stick it on tape and let friends play04:56
lcuk/disk04:56
cleary_pupnik_: tbh, I have an exceptional woman already, so I'll take a few average ones, thanks :)04:56
wiretappedIf nokia were smart they'd allow free apps to be distributed in the ovi store as name-your-own-price04:56
wiretappedthe "radiohead model"04:56
pupnik_both for cleary is unfair.  overflow to pupnik.04:56
wiretappedand compete head to head with $$ apps04:56
lcukwiretapped, why cant i choose the price i sell my software at04:57
pupnik_i prefer dev names rice04:57
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, Extras.04:57
lcukthe license its under is not important04:57
wiretappedlcuk: who said you can't?04:57
lcukif someone wants to get it manually from the repo04:57
lcukthats their choice04:57
GeneralAntillesBoth will be highlighted with http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/04:57
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, free stuff can go through Ovi.04:57
GeneralAntillesBut there's no point.04:57
lcukahhh but can free software have a pricetag04:58
wiretappedthe point is that their payment infrastructure could handle donations04:58
wiretappedlcuk: of course it can04:58
GeneralAntillesHrm, interesting.04:58
GeneralAntillesProblem is Ovi is €5004:58
wiretappedyeah, that sucks.04:58
wiretappedI don't plan to have an ovi account04:59
lcukmmm gen?04:59
GeneralAntillesBut, Extras will be getting highlighted04:59
GeneralAntillesand the systems should be parallel.04:59
wiretappedBut if I could use it to donate to lcuk and gnuite I might04:59
lcuk€50 for an ovi account?04:59
cleary_wiretapped: someone can write that app04:59
dmj7262It would be nice to be able to donate $50 and specify which projects should get a piece of it...nicer than lots of mini transactions04:59
cleary_package manager with a paypal interface04:59
*** elninja has quit IRC05:00
lcukwiretapped, you can do that anyway on liqbase.net :)05:00
lcukdont have to wait :D05:00
GeneralAntilleslcuk, if you plan on distributing through the Ovi Store.05:00
dmj7262how is that paypal button working out so far lcuk?05:00
wiretappedlcuk: I haven't actually used liqbase in months, but sure :)05:00
wiretappedI hope you keep it free05:00
lcukits gpl :)05:00
lcuki dont intend closing anything05:00
dmj7262liqbase is like the opposite of the iphone ui, except for being smooth and nicely animated05:01
*** philipl has quit IRC05:01
lcukdmj7262, it got me through a very sticky situation recently.  and i really dont know what i would have done if i wasnt a member of such a decent community of people :$05:01
wiretappedsent.05:01
wiretappedlooking forward to trying liqbase again when i get an n90005:02
lcuk:D thanks you wiretapped05:02
* lcuk nods 05:02
wiretappedi actually might get to *use* an n900 this sunday05:02
lcuki am working as hard as possible to integrate everything now05:02
lcukand tidy up the bits i never care about05:02
wiretappedsomeone who works at mozilla is getting a pre-release unit and is going to let me play with it05:02
lcukbut you guys do05:02
dmj7262I will likely donate some at some point fter getting my hands on an n90005:02
lcukafter you get hands on n900 we wont head from you05:03
lcukapart from "omgggggggggggggggggg"05:03
lcukhear ^05:03
dmj7262hehe05:03
lcukwiretapped, where do you work?05:03
dmj7262no, I'll be on irc *from* the n900 :D05:04
lcuksorry if its person, just with you saying someone from mozilla05:04
lcukare you a moz person too?05:04
wiretappedno.05:04
wiretappedi know him from the local hackerspace05:04
lcukcool05:04
wiretappedwww.noisebridge.net05:05
buttholiolcuk == cool05:05
wiretappedwhere the most popular phone by far is the g1, and several people have n900's on preorder :)05:05
lcukwhy thank you mr holio05:05
*** Analias has quit IRC05:06
lcukwiretapped, your little hacking group reminds me of the c-base05:06
buttholio == penguinbait05:06
buttholioI think many knew that already05:07
wiretappedyeah we're very much inspired by c-base, metalab, et al05:07
buttholioheh05:07
lcukvery cool05:07
lcukwiretapped, do people shout and complain when some members pull their iphone out05:08
lcukor does no1 dare05:08
dmj7262heh, for some reason your hackerspace makes me think of Little Brother05:08
wiretappedno sadly we have some iphone app devs among us :(05:08
wiretappedand we accept them05:08
*** g55 has quit IRC05:08
wiretappedheh05:08
lcuklol05:08
dmj7262hmmm...n900 as rfid cloner?05:09
lcukmmm which freq are they meant to tx on?05:09
dmj7262would that be possible?05:09
lcukwe have radio rx/tx05:09
lcukbut it depends on frequency05:09
dmj7262That would be an interesting hack.05:10
dmj7262Anyone read Little Brother?05:10
wiretappedlcuk: we don't have that kind of access to the GSM radio do we?05:10
lcukwiretapped, as far as i am aware05:11
lcukthe gsm/low level stuff isnt documented and hidden away in a little corner05:11
lcukbut i might be wrong05:11
*** g55 has joined #maemo05:11
lcukive seen high level "send sms" functions05:11
lcukbut nothing of the low down stuff05:12
lcukand frankly, im glad05:12
GeneralAntillesLow level stuff might come with oFono05:12
lcukthe mms implementors might know more ;)05:12
lcukyeah gen05:12
wiretappedthere are some regulatory issues there ;)05:12
GeneralAntillesFor now it's just an SSI interface with AT commands.05:12
GeneralAntillesphonet05:12
lcukyou would know :P05:12
ali1234that's all you're ever likely to get05:13
wiretappedyep.05:13
ali1234it's definitely all you'll ever get from nokia05:13
lcukliqbase will go active, and all the phones in the world will ring.05:13
GeneralAntillesali1234?05:13
GeneralAntilleshttp://ofono.org05:13
*** RobertH[AU] has quit IRC05:13
ali1234ofono is a telephony stack05:14
lcukgen, i thought ofono still just spoke to the modem itself05:14
lcukand the modem did the gsm stuff itself05:14
wiretappedwow there is a lot inside the GPL box at http://ofono.org/documentation05:14
*** buttholio has quit IRC05:15
wiretappedbut "plug-in" is the giveaway here that the radio bits aren't included05:15
ali1234of course05:16
ali1234the radio firmwares have to be thoroughly tested by the regulatory bodies05:16
lcuki cant wait for the top layer to have "postcards" :)05:16
*** Flandry has joined #maemo05:16
FlandryGood evening05:17
ali1234not to mention that the radio is a dsp connected to a fixed function radio chipset, which would be useless for anything other than what it does05:17
FlandryCan i ask some newbish questions about packaging?05:17
lcukFlandry, you can certainly try05:17
ali1234kind of like how a wifi card can't pick up dect transmissions even though they're on the same frequency05:18
wiretappedali1234: except for sometimes when those "fixed" radio chipsets are actually SDRs ;)05:18
dmj7262i suppose one could make a bluetooth rfid accessory05:18
dmj7262and use the n900 as the brains to know what to clone and how.05:19
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo05:19
Flandrycool. I want to make a library available as a package. If the armel target .deb is available from Debian, can i use that in some modified form for Maemo?05:19
wiretappedi don't remember which, but i recall hearing a long time ago about an 802.11b card which had a relatively hackable SDR inside05:19
dmj7262Hehe...that's an app that Apple would deny.05:19
wiretappedit doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility that some GSM modems could be too05:20
ali1234they are software defined to an extent05:20
ali1234but not to the point where you can make then transmit arbitrary waveforms05:21
ali1234so technically, they're not SDR at all05:22
ali1234plus the fact that they're locked on to specific frequencies05:22
lcuk    * Low Frequency (LF) 125-135 KHz05:23
lcuk    * High Frequency (HF) 13.56 MHz05:23
lcuk    * Ultra High Frequency (UHF) 868-930 MHz05:23
lcuk    * Microwave 2.45 GHz05:23
lcuk    * Microwave 5.8 GHz05:23
FlandryMaybe a better question is, what is the best process to take libraries avalable on debian and make them available on Maemo? The information on http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing isn't detailed enough for me to figure out.05:23
*** b-man17 has quit IRC05:23
lcukFlandry, it depends on the library itself05:24
ali1234no, it doesn't05:24
lcukif its got few dependencies and is already debianised05:24
ali1234Flandry: you have to take the source-deb, change a couple of fields in the debian/ dir, and recompile it05:24
lcukrly05:24
ali1234rinse, repeat for deps05:24
*** panaggio has quit IRC05:24
Flandryok05:25
lcukyeah but the number of deps can explode05:25
Flandryi'm looking at libmikmod05:25
ali1234the number of deps is unlikely to explode unless you're attempting to package something like qt05:25
lcukFlandry, cool!05:26
FlandryBeing unfamiliar with debiffying in general this is a bit of a curve for me...05:26
lcukwhat are you wanting to use it for once its here05:26
lcukdo you have something concrete in mind, or just as an exercize05:27
FlandryI compiled Urquan Masters on the SDK and it runs ok on the simulator, but i had to compile libmikmod to link against first05:27
Flandryhttp://www.urquanmasters.com/05:27
*** user_ has joined #maemo05:28
FlandryStarcon 2.05:28
FlandryAnyway i think it would be good to have on N90005:28
ali1234great game05:28
Flandryi'll look at the source deb for libmikmod and see if i can figure it out05:28
*** LHB_ has joined #maemo05:28
lcukFlandry, do you have an n810 too05:29
ali1234Flandry: apt-get build-dep && apt-get source libmikmod05:29
lcukor 80005:29
*** vivijim1 has joined #maemo05:29
Flandryno i don't have an IT yet05:29
*** LHB__ has joined #maemo05:30
*** user_ has quit IRC05:30
*** LHB_ has quit IRC05:30
*** LHB__ has quit IRC05:30
lcukis urquan a gl or glex game05:30
lcukgles05:30
*** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC05:31
*** LHB_ has joined #maemo05:31
Flandryit's from 1992 or so i think05:32
*** LHB_ has left #maemo05:32
Flandrydoesn't really need accelerated gfx05:32
* fiferboy is almost ready to release his latest app on the community...05:32
lcukoooh fiferboy, what is it ?05:33
lcukFlandry, software 3d?05:33
lcukif so, coool05:33
*** LHB_ has joined #maemo05:33
GeneralAntillesIt's a "Dirty things fiferboy would like to say to your mother" widget.05:33
Flandryno 3d, just a really cool scroller05:33
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: That will be my next app.  Thanks for the idea!05:34
lcukFlandry, i saw on the forum you linked that they were talking about high poly counts05:34
lcuk"fiferboys busstop adventures"05:34
lcukor should i say05:34
*** penguinbait has quit IRC05:34
lcuk"personal busstop favours"05:35
fiferboy:P05:35
fiferboypersonal favours indeed05:35
*** vivijim1 has quit IRC05:35
Flandrywell there are all kinds of mod efforts, but the original game is pretty simple on resources05:35
Firebirdstill thinking of ways to teach ovi/nokia a lesson?05:35
*** pcfe has quit IRC05:35
lcuklol fiferboy05:36
*** pcfe has joined #maemo05:36
lcukgo on, whats your app05:36
lcukcos im running out of room on my desktop05:36
fiferboyDesktop photo frame and slideshow05:36
fiferboylcuk: You know you can have four, right ;)05:36
lcukhahaha bug05:37
lcuki do know i can05:37
lcuki forgot i could turn em off05:37
lcukbut in the manage views/active views ui05:37
lcuki dont have an indicator of which im on05:37
lcukso i cant turn "everything but this one" off05:38
lcukits guess work05:38
lcuk:O05:38
lcukand if you get it wrong, it vapes your widgets05:38
lcukso my 1 page with widgets where i wanted is now gone!05:38
lcukits like russian rulette05:39
lcukroulette?05:39
*** vivijim1 has joined #maemo05:41
*** vivijim has quit IRC05:41
*** t_s_o has quit IRC05:41
*** tonikitoo has quit IRC05:44
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo05:44
Flandryi read things about the autobuilder. Do i compile and package binaries or do i upload a source deb that is compiled on the server?05:44
fiferboyNow to decide whether to release it to extras-devel tonight, or polish it a bit tomorrow05:44
GeneralAntillestonight05:44
lcukFlandry, you build your deb to source packages05:44
GeneralAntillesSo we can get karma for calling it broken.05:45
fiferboyIt is pretty basic, but should work.05:45
GeneralAntillesYou say that now, but then you're going to get a bug about it killing somebody's dog.05:45
fiferboyConfiguration is there, it should be easy on the battery05:45
lcukdpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S05:45
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: I would be surprised if I didn't05:45
fiferboyOkay, I will put it in extras-devel so you guys can pick it apart05:46
lcukthat produces a .changes file, a .dsc and a .deb05:46
Flandryman that's all greek to me :D05:46
fiferboyI'll announce it tomorrow if you guys don't hurt my feelings too much05:46
lcukFlandry, yeah tis05:46
lcukdebian packaging is a fine art05:46
lcukfew have mastered it05:47
lcukwe have our own blackbelt05:47
* wiretapped just learned how to use apt-ftparchive instead of dpkg-scanpackages05:47
wiretappedand now I have a gpg-signed repo05:47
lcukwho is always happy to talk about it and give a bit of a nudge for those doing other stuff05:48
lcukcool05:48
wiretappedACACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED05:48
wiretappedACAC yeah05:48
lcukwhat good does that do tho05:48
*** n810debian has joined #maemo05:48
wiretappedit makes debian-installer happy05:48
*** fernand0 has joined #maemo05:48
n810debiani found the debian partition in maemo's root terminal, umounted it, and need to change the filesystem size without changing the partition size, ext2resize is not available for my architecture (arm maemo), any suggestions?05:48
*** vivijim1 has quit IRC05:48
*** vivijim has joined #maemo05:49
wiretappedn810debian: i assume you mean armel, not arm, if you're on an n81005:49
n810debianwiretapped: yes05:49
lcukn810debian, port it!05:49
n810debianlcuk: its not easy enough for non-programming users to do yet05:50
n810debianlcuk: needs an easy gtk+ gui with a button that says "start"05:50
lcuki expect lots of non programming users do what you are doing now05:50
n810debianlcuk: do you know a way from the maemo kernel on the n810 to resize fs's05:51
lcuknot personally05:51
lcukthe person who might is penguinbait05:51
lcukhe wrote some file system tools05:51
lcuk/ported them05:51
lcuklemme see if i can find links, they might help05:52
n810debianlcuk: someone wrote ext2progs, does that have any utilites that can help?05:52
GeneralAntillesHe wrote some shell scripts.05:52
GeneralAntillesLet's be clear.05:52
lcuki dunno, you are the one performing this op05:52
wiretappedn810debian: do you have another linux system besides your n810?05:52
lcukGeneralAntilles, ok, he brought sometools to maemo05:52
n810debianlcuk: i installed debian on-top of maemo, and it works fine, but i can't get the file system to be more than 1.2 GB when the microSD is 4 GB ext205:53
lcukwhich no1 else did05:53
lcukwhich were todo with filesystem stuff05:53
*** qwerty12_N810 has quit IRC05:53
GeneralAntilleslcuk, nope, he wrote some shell scripts.05:53
lcukdoes it report as 4gb from maemo05:53
GeneralAntillesThe tools were there.05:53
n810debianwiretapped: meaning debian is a virtual OS on top of maemo05:53
wiretappedmount the microSD on your desktop computer and resize it there05:53
wiretappedn810debian: i'm familiar :)05:53
n810debianlcuk: gparted on the n810 says its 4 gb, and di -f reports 1.2 GB full05:53
Flandryso i got the source deb for this library. Do i use configure or just change things in ./debian like control?05:54
n810debianlcuk: i mean df, i forgot the flag05:54
*** _jason553839 has joined #maemo05:54
wiretappedn810debian: do you have another linux system besides your n810?05:54
n810debianwiretapped, no other computer has micro or SD capabilities, can i ssh mount?05:54
n810debianwiretapped: yes05:55
wiretappedconveniently, your n810 is an sd reader05:55
n810debianwiretapped, for only internal memory?05:55
wiretappedno, for the microsd05:55
n810debianwiretapped: hmm....interesting, go on05:55
wiretappedwhat more is there to say?05:56
wiretappedpc + usb cable + n81005:56
n810debianwiretapped: the terminal instructios to resize the fs05:56
wiretappedman resize2fs05:57
n810debianwiretapped: thanks; is there a command to resize the dev to full open capacity?05:57
n810debianwiretapped: no sarcasm intended05:58
wiretappedfrom the manual: "If size parameter is not specified, it will default to the size of the partition."05:58
n810debianwiretapped: thanks, you are the best05:58
wiretappedis this filesystem on a partition or an image?05:59
wiretappedif you did the easy debian install iirc it should be on an image file... so you actually need to make that bigger first.05:59
n810debiani believe image, isn't debian for n810 on an image? its on its own partition ext2 on the microSD05:59
n810debianwiretapped: i resized the partition to 4 GB, how do i resize the image from 1.2 to 4 GB?06:00
wiretappedum06:01
*** shdb has quit IRC06:01
wiretappedls -l the image file06:01
wiretappedsee how many bytes it is06:01
*** shdb has joined #maemo06:01
lcukbtw n810debian06:01
n810debianits 1.2 from the df command06:01
n810debianGB06:01
*** hardaker has quit IRC06:01
wiretappedyou need to know how many bytes, though06:01
wiretappedfor the next step06:01
wiretappedls -l06:01
lcuki have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E2fsprogs listed as available from my apt-get06:01
lcukbut im not on n81006:02
wiretappedyeah resize2fs should actually be available on maemo iirc06:02
lcuke2fsprogs includes resize06:02
wiretappedso forget your PC06:02
* lcuk just went looking06:02
wiretappedto resize the file...06:02
lcukthat was his question06:02
n810debianlcuk, changing computers, one sec yall06:02
lcuklol06:02
n810debiandid a find / -name resize with no luck06:02
n810debianbrb06:02
*** n810debian has quit IRC06:02
lcukapt-cache search ext206:03
lcukfine06:03
lcuk:P06:03
*** n810debian has joined #maemo06:03
n810debianback06:03
lcukapt-cache search ext206:03
lcuksee whether you have it :)06:04
n810debianmounted it on the other computer, 1.2 GB (1288489984 bytes)06:04
lcukits in maemo diablo06:04
n810debiansearching now (have diablo)06:04
n810debiani see e2fsprogs (which i thought i installed)06:05
lcukyeah06:05
lcukbrought in from sarge06:05
wiretappeddd if=/dev/zero of=/path/to/imagefile seek=1288489984 bs=1 count=200000000006:05
wiretappedI *THINK* that will do it06:05
wiretappeddon't blame me if you lose all your data06:05
n810debianwiretapped: no important data on it06:05
wiretappedbut iirc that is what you need to do to add 2GB to your image06:06
wiretappedthen resize2fs /path/to/imagefile06:06
n810debianwhere does the image default?06:06
wiretappedno idea06:06
n810debianwiretapped: that will require mounting the SD?06:06
wiretappedwhat did you ls -l ??06:06
wiretappedyou should be able to do this on your device with e2fsprogs installed06:06
*** g55 has quit IRC06:07
lcukn810debian, if its a 4gb card06:07
lcukand its meant to be 4gb06:07
n810debianlcuk: i guess i moved the apt folder to the drive06:07
* wiretapped isn't sure if n810debian even has a disk image, or what06:08
n810debianso i'll need to make it 3.6 GB06:08
n810debianubuntu reports it as 3.7 GB06:08
lcukfrankly, im in the dark about partitioning, i did it once06:08
lcukand nearly blew my system06:08
lcukso i didnt touch it again06:08
lcukjust explain how you THINK the card is laid out06:09
lcukand what you did to get it like that06:09
lcukit might help to help you06:09
*** g55 has joined #maemo06:09
n810debianlcuk: let me consult gparted on the n81006:10
lcukcos afaik, most mmc cards come fully formatted with fat06:10
lcukto whole size06:10
lcukone span06:10
clmntchhello06:10
n810debianlcuk: i formatted it with ext206:10
lcukjust a straight format, no mucking with multitple partitions06:11
lcukhi clmntch06:11
FlandryIn general, does the "rules" file of a debian library package need to be modified then?06:11
n810debianwow, its reporting as 3.42 GB in gparted06:11
n810debianwiretapped: i found the image: debian-squeeze.img.ext2 under /media/mmc106:12
wiretappedhey, there you go06:12
wiretappedso ls -l that06:12
n810debianwiretapped: and as seen above, gparted is showing the drive as 3.42 GB06:12
wiretappedand fill in that number of bytes in the dd command i gave you06:12
wiretappedwhat were you ls -l'ing before?06:12
*** hardaker has joined #maemo06:12
wiretappedwhen you said "1288489984 bytes"06:13
wiretapped?06:13
lcukFlandry, i built unchanged a debai ndeb06:13
lcukand pushed through06:13
lcukdpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S06:13
lcukfrom your system just try that06:13
lcukfrom the source folder06:14
lcukand see what it does06:14
Flandryoh ok06:14
wiretappedn810debian: also, df -h /media/mmc106:14
wiretappedhow much free space do you have?06:14
n810debianimg file --> 128848998406:14
lcukahhhh n810debian so, you created an ext2 file within the still existing FAT partition06:15
n810debianavail: 1.8 G06:15
n810debianlcuk: no, the image is sitting on an ext2 partition type06:15
lcukwhen i reformatted my drive as extwhatever it was the actual whole MMC06:15
Flandryheh what's the metric for success here?06:15
n810debianFlandry: 1, not 006:15
lcukworld still revolving06:15
lcuksun still warm06:16
wiretappedok... here is the command to run: dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 seek=1288489984 bs=106:16
wiretappedi guess you don't need to specify the count... dd will just append zeroes to the file until the mmc is full :)06:16
n810debianwiretapped: one more thing... i moved the apt cache directory to the partition (on the SD card mmc1)06:16
wiretappedthen resize2fs /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext206:16
n810debianwiretapped: so i could actually install files, can i save 400 mb for that?06:17
wiretappedmaemo's apt cache, or debians?06:17
n810debiandebians06:17
wiretappedhow's that? I thought debian was all inside the image06:17
n810debiandebian was using my local drive (200 mb), nope06:17
* wiretapped is confused06:17
lcukwhat filesystem type is /media/mmc1  ??06:17
lcukis that still fat06:17
*** tbf has quit IRC06:17
n810debianlcuk: no, its ext2, it came fat, i formatted it to ext206:17
lcukso where are you storing the .debs06:18
n810debian/media/mmc1/apt/cache06:18
*** tbf has joined #maemo06:18
lcukwithin the existing 1.8gb exst2 partition06:18
n810debianyes06:18
wiretappedand debian can see that?06:18
wiretappedok06:18
wiretappedi'd get rid of that06:18
Flandryalright i'm a bit dense06:19
Flandryhere's the output06:19
wiretappedand just keep everything in the image06:19
Flandrydpkg-source: building libmikmod in libmikmod_3.1.11-6ubuntu3.diff.gz06:19
Flandrydpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file docs/mikmod.info06:19
Flandrydpkg-source: building libmikmod in libmikmod_3.1.11-6ubuntu3.dsc06:19
Flandry dpkg-genchanges -S -sa06:19
Flandrydpkg-genchanges: including full source code in upload06:19
Flandrydpkg-buildpackage: source only upload (original source is included)06:19
lcukFlandry, PASTEBIN06:19
n810debianwiretapped: i put it there because it was using my 200 mb (and couldn't install files through apt-get)06:19
wiretappedi don't know what 200mb you mean06:19
n810debianwiretapped: how do i tell debian to keep the apt stuff in the image? it doesn't do it by default06:19
lcukFlandry, try just dpkg-buildpackage06:19
n810debianthe other partition, not mmc1 or mmc2 (the small one)06:19
n810debianthe maemo root partition /06:20
lcukn810debian, paste result of df06:20
lcuk:D06:20
wiretappedi didn't realize the maemo debian stuff kept files there06:20
wiretappedit has been a while since i've had a debian chroot on my n80006:20
ali1234n810debian: what are you actually trying to do?06:20
n810debian/dev/mtdblock4 255488 (23044 avail); then the mmc1 and mmc206:21
*** vivijim has quit IRC06:21
n810debianali1234: expand the debian image on n810 and leave room for /media/mmc1/apt/cache06:21
ali1234i see06:21
Flandryyeah i ran dpkg-bulidpackage and those were the last few lines of output06:22
wiretappedi need to go now.06:22
Flandrythat's why i was wondering how to know if it worked06:22
lcukFlandry, so step back one folder06:22
lcukand see if the required files are there06:22
lcuki think they will be06:22
ali1234n810debian: so, what wiretapped said will work, just add a count so you dont completely fill the disk06:22
wiretappedI will /lastlog n810debian later, i expect to hear of your great success :)06:22
Flandrythe same files are there as were when i got the source. Should i have deleted them?06:23
lcuk"oh crap wiretapped what have you made me £"^£%"$^"$[NOCARRIER]06:23
n810debianali1234: can i create a 0'ed file that is 400 mb and dump it in apt/cache dir?06:23
n810debianali1234: then fill to capacity with dd command?06:23
ali1234you can. but why would you want to?06:23
n810debianali1234: i don't know where to count it to, not used to dd command06:23
lcukFlandry, .changes, .dsc .deb, .tar.gz?06:24
ali1234n810debian: it will dd count*bs bytes06:24
Flandryno .deb06:24
Flandrythe rest were there when i got the source package06:24
*** zz_jhford is now known as jhford06:24
*** _jason553839 has quit IRC06:24
n810debianso i should run: dd if=/dev/zero of=/path/to/imagefile seek=1288489984 bs=1 count=2000000000 to fill it up completely, and what to run to fill it up (completely - 400 mb)?06:25
n810debian- = minus06:25
ali1234eh?06:25
ali1234bs is blocksize, do not use 1, it will take forever06:25
lcukFlandry, datestamps06:25
ali1234n810debian: how much freespace on that partition?06:26
n810debian1.8 GB06:26
ali1234so to leave 400mb, you will grow the image by 1.4gb06:26
wiretappedali1234: isn't seek specified in bs units though?06:26
ali1234probably yes06:26
* wiretapped forgets06:26
*** ferdna has joined #maemo06:26
Flandrythe diff.gz, dsc, changes are all altered06:27
ali1234but you dont need to seek, if you are creative06:27
wiretappedhows that?06:27
Flandrybut there is no deb there06:27
ali1234you dont even need to use dd06:27
n810debianali1234: what is the command to create a zeroed 400 mb file in /media/mmc1/apt/ ?06:27
ali1234but we can say dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/stdout >> image06:27
ali1234and it will append06:27
wiretappedah, good point!06:27
wiretappedactually i think you could even leave off the of=/dev/stdout06:28
ali1234probably06:28
wiretappedyeah06:28
wiretappedok then.06:28
Flandrysorry, don't know what you meant by pastebin06:28
ali1234n810debian: dd if=/dev/zero of=whatever bs=1000000 count=40006:28
n810debian!pastebin | Flandry06:28
lcukFlandry, you dont need .deb06:28
lcukto upload to extras06:29
lcukthe command that was ran was source packaging06:29
Flandryoh, duh06:29
lcuk<Flandry> dpkg-buildpackage: source only upload (original source is included)06:29
*** Analias has joined #maemo06:29
lcukwhen you wish to push a package to extras for you and other developers to use06:29
lcukyou do not push binaries06:29
lcukyou push source, and it gathers the deps and builds them for you06:30
wiretappedn810debian: dd if=/dev/zero bs=1M count=1500 >> /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext206:30
lcukand prepares for users to download from the repository06:30
wiretappedwill append approx 1.5GB of zeroes to your image06:30
Flandryok that makes sense06:30
ali1234n810debian: and i hope you have a backup if you're not used to dd06:30
ali1234also instead of resizing06:30
ali1234it's way easier to just make a new empty fs and cp -a everything over06:30
Flandryhow do i test to make sure it builds properly though?06:30
* wiretapped is really leaving now06:30
lcukFlandry, principle reason: you can build for multiple OS versions and CPU targets06:31
fiferboyOk, personal-photo-frame is on its way to extras-devel06:31
n810debianali1234: no data valuable on it, just trying to do it once06:31
*** Firebird has quit IRC06:31
n810debianali1234: still zeroing a 400 mb file :)06:31
lcukFlandry, i use this command on my system06:31
lcukfakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -i -I.git06:31
fiferboyTry it out, and let me know tomorrow how it works06:31
lcukand it builds source stuff and .deb files06:31
lcukfiferboy, i will test tomorrow thanks!06:32
n810debianali1234: awesome, its done, so i can dd if=/dev/zero bs=1M count=1500 >> /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 now?06:32
fiferboyI need to add random order for slideshow, launch the photo app on click, (possible) slideshow controls on the widget for the next version06:32
* GeneralAntilles suspects he'll be mailing fiferboy the charred remains of his RX-51.06:33
ali1234n810debian: you could have done it at any point, i don't know what you mean?06:33
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, also consider mafw UPnP?06:33
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Why are you so positive tonight ;P06:33
n810debianali1234: what will increase the image size to the maximum free space of partition?06:33
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, just bored. ;)06:33
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Good idea.  I have been thinking about other photo sources like flickr, but that would be a few versions for now06:33
ali1234n810debian: dd if=/dev/zero >> /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext206:33
lcukanything good on the other channels tonight06:34
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Just because the Rays aren't in the post season this year?  I thought you would be used to it...06:34
GeneralAntillesFlickr would be awesome, too.06:34
lcukare there any decent forums alive06:34
lcukGeneralAntilles, featurecreep06:34
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, hehe, 2008 was so much fun.06:34
fiferboySomeone snarfed the fiferboy flickr account :(06:34
GeneralAntilleslcuk, by adding two very common photo sources?06:34
GeneralAntillesand, really, lcuk, you should talk. :roll:06:34
lcuk:D06:35
lcuki released those and moved on06:35
lcukive not technically released anything yet06:35
n810debianali1234: running the command now, thanx a lot for your help and wire's and lcuk's, without it i'd be stuck with a 1.2 image06:35
fiferboylcuk: I plan on having the core functionality complete before adding more sources06:35
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, I hate that.06:35
* lcuk nods06:35
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, the one and only thing somebody's managed to snag out from under me is gmail.06:35
n810debianwhoever made the debian for the n810: my hats off to them; great great application06:36
GeneralAntillesIt's registered to some hotmail idiot.06:36
fiferboyI've lost a few user names, nothing I really miss06:36
fiferboyBut I tried registering flickr just today :|06:36
*** LHB_ has quit IRC06:36
fiferboyAnyone considering Personal Photo Frame might want to consider waiting 20 minutes for 0.1-2 (already building)06:37
fiferboyThe only difference is the newer package loads a default image in on first load, making it easier to notice than a blank frame06:38
lcukhow would you manage flickr stuff (theoretically06:38
lcuki personally think a google search is better06:38
lcukgive it a big disctionary06:38
lcukget it to pick out 2 words06:39
lcukdo a google on them and download the pic06:39
fiferboylcuk: Most likely (from what I have heard about flickr, having never used it) either by tag or by 'friend' accounts06:39
n810debiani got a filesize exceeded error06:39
n810debianbooting up to see if its extended06:39
GeneralAntilleslcuk, or just your own photostream. . .06:39
lcukso you need a tag interface06:39
*** LB has quit IRC06:39
lcukand preferences to mange it06:39
ali1234n810debian: you still have to resize the filesystem inside the image or it wont make any difference06:39
fiferboylcuk: I plan on adding the tag cloud for the local slideshow too06:40
lcukwicked :D06:40
n810debianali1234: ok, im in the image now, opening terminal inside06:40
fiferboyI am not completely sold on flickr integration yet (I really haven't looked into the technical side)06:40
* GeneralAntilles finally gets back to watching Doctor Who.06:40
lcuki think they just did one inside canola for gsoc06:40
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, check the Canola plugin for code.06:40
fiferboyIt just makes sense to include it at some point (if feasible)06:40
Flandryyay Dr. Who06:40
lcukso it might make sense to compare notes06:40
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Good idea06:40
lcukGeneralAntilles, which drwho?06:41
fiferboyAnyway, I have to go clean the kitchen then crawl into bed...06:41
n810debianali1234: do i run the same command inside of the debian image?06:41
ali1234n810debian: no06:41
lcukfiferboy, cya later :D06:41
fiferboyNight all06:41
lcukwill check out app later06:41
fiferboylcuk: Thanks06:42
lcukhttp://www.xkcd.com/644/ :D06:42
*** fiferboy has quit IRC06:42
lcukive missed xkcd06:42
n810debianwhat command should i run inside the debian image to resize?06:42
ali1234you dont run any command inside debian06:43
GeneralAntilleslcuk, series 3 of the new one.06:43
ali1234the image contains a filesystem06:43
ali1234you must resize that filesystem06:43
lcuktop notch stuff06:43
ali1234from *outside* of it06:43
lcukhave fun gen06:43
lcukgnite all \o06:43
n810debianit shows the filesystem has 23 mb on it from inside06:43
*** vivijim has joined #maemo06:44
n810debianthat command you gave me should have resized the image already, correct? what command should i input inside or outside the image to show the file extension?06:44
Flandryaw man06:44
Flandrythanks lcuk06:45
n810debiani ran this last *outside* the image: dd if=/dev/zero >> /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext206:45
n810debianwhat else needs to be done to extend the image?06:45
* wiretapped is back06:45
lcuknp Flandry keep us informed about the game06:45
lcukgood luck with it06:46
ali1234n810debian: e2fsck -f /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 && resize2fs /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 && e2fsck -f /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext206:46
*** _jason553839 has joined #maemo06:46
lcukread all the docs you can06:46
wiretappedyes06:46
wiretappedwhat ali1234 said06:46
Flandryguess i'll need to06:46
wiretapped(outside the image)06:46
Flandrybinary build fails so back to the drawing board06:46
ali1234Flandry: if you're too lazy to package it you can compile that one lib static06:47
ali1234you still need to package up the end result for anyone to use it of course06:48
Flandryyeah, i want to get the library packaged as a practice run06:48
Flandryit might be useful to others anyway06:48
n810debianwiretapped: yeah, i was confused about that for a while, but now i get it and am running those outside the image :)06:48
lcukgah Flandry use pastebin.com and show us the output06:49
lcukrun make or dpkg-buildpackage or something on it06:49
n810debianali1234: command complete!06:49
lcukso we see the problems06:49
* lcuk has one last cig before bed06:49
Flandryi decided starting from the ubuntu package wasn't a good idea so i'm looking for the deb package06:50
n810debianstill shows only 23 MB free06:50
Flandryi cant' see a way to get the whole thing as a tarball though06:50
lcukyou need to build it for the CPU06:50
lcukyou are ok as source - just try to run the dpkg line again06:50
lcukand show us the errors06:50
wiretappedn810debian: was the filesystem mounted while you did this?06:51
wiretappedhow big is the image file now?06:51
n810debiani ran the exit debian script provided, shouldn't that umount it?06:51
wiretappedactually i think resize2fs works with it mounted...06:51
*** vasily_pupkin has quit IRC06:51
wiretappedls -l /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext206:52
n810debianthat last command killed the image06:53
n810debiancan't boot into it06:53
n810debianrebooting n81006:53
FlandryAlright well i'm probably doing this ass-backwards:06:53
*** |R has quit IRC06:53
n810debianwiretapped: 209920406:54
wiretappedGeneralAntilles: re: donations in software stores: I was pleased to discover just now that this has already been proposed for ubuntu: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/2121206:55
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, there's a Brainstorm on http://maemo.org too06:55
n810debiani lost my windows manager, but the terminal still works with all the programs installed06:55
Flandryi'm running sudo apt-get source libmikmod from my system, where the package is visible06:56
wiretappedhey, so there is06:56
Flandrycopying the results to the scratchbox user area06:56
n810debianwindows manager works after reboot :)06:56
GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/donations_are_not_simplified_and_not_enough_emphasized06:56
n810debianit still shows 23 mb free in the virtual debian os06:57
wiretappedn810debian: :(06:57
n810debianat least nothing is corrupted :)06:57
wiretappedn810debian: can you paste the full output of df at http://maemo.pastebin.com/06:58
*** |R has joined #maemo06:59
ferdnadoes anyone knows how to install symbian on qemu?07:00
n810debianhttp://maemo.pastebin.com/m2775257507:00
n810debiani ran dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/apt/temp bs=1000000 count=400 && dd if=/dev/zero >> /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 && e2fsck -f /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 && resize2fs /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 && e2fsck -f /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext207:00
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC07:01
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: I disagree with the implication that free software developers are less interested in making money.07:01
lcukdepends on level of participation luke-jr07:02
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, I haven't implied anything besides fiferboy being a creeper in the past few hours, you're probably highlighting the wrong person.07:02
lcuksome do it cos theres a need for their app07:02
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: your link07:02
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, sorry, wasn't linking it to discuss.07:02
luke-jrlcuk: yeah, but that doesn't mean we don't want money :p07:02
GeneralAntillesPlease place all discussion on the link.07:02
lcukluke-jr, of course07:03
Flandryhttp://pastebin.com/d3675725407:03
n810debianwiretapped: my df look okay?07:03
wiretappedn810debian: actually no, i'm not sure what is going on there, sorry :/07:04
wiretappedthe maemo debian package clearly involves some voodoo which i don't know about07:04
lcukFlandry, when you got the source07:05
lcukdid you run the configure script07:05
n810debianali1234: any other suggestions or error in the input commands?07:06
lcukor just extract as it came07:06
wiretappedn810debian: can you paste the output of the mount command also?07:06
Flandrysudo apt-get source libmikmod07:07
wiretappedjust mount, with no arguments07:07
Flandryand then copied it to the scratchbox user area07:07
ali1234n810debian: according to the /debian is still 1.2 gb07:07
Flandryand ran dpkg-buildpackage07:07
Flandryi thought configure would be run automatically07:08
Flandryshould i be ./configure ing?07:08
lcukyeah it has been07:08
n810debianwiretapped: what command do you want me to run in terminal as root in maemo?07:08
lcukmy mistake, and its failing07:08
ali1234Flandry: dpkg-buildpackage should do everything, it's meant to be fully automated07:09
cleary_Flandry: the process I use is: apt-get build-dep foo; apt-get source foo; cd foo<ver>; debuild -us -uc07:09
*** _jason553839 has quit IRC07:09
cleary_I don't know if the debuild wrapper handles some extra debian/rules stuff07:09
wiretappedn810debian: mount07:09
cleary_but it may do the trick for you07:10
wiretappedand pastebin the output07:10
Flandrywell i'm getting the package from the ubuntu repositories on my machine and moving it to the scratchbox machine07:10
Flandryis that the source of the problem?07:10
cleary_Flandry: (you need to install devscripts, fakeroot and build-essential for my method)07:10
lcukits having a serious problem inside its configure script07:10
lcukas in not able to find compiler07:11
lcukor use it sorry07:11
n810debianhttp://maemo.pastebin.com/m5972a25407:11
Flandryi'm probably doing something dumb07:11
lcuk#07:11
lcukchecking for i486-linux-gnu-gcc... i486-linux-gnu-gcc07:11
lcuk#07:11
lcukchecking for C compiler default output file name... a.out07:11
lcuk#07:11
Flandrylol07:11
lcukchecking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs.07:11
lcuk#07:11
lcukIf you meant to cross compile, use `--host'.07:11
lcuk:D heh damn07:11
* lcuk whistles07:11
lcukthat was meant to be 4 lines07:11
cleary_Flandry: another method you have to ensure clean building is to use something like pbuilder07:12
lcukcleary07:12
lcukits got standard tooling07:12
lcukbut complex build07:12
Flandryso let me ask then07:12
cleary_lcuk: sorry - where is this from?07:12
lcukit does patching and stuff07:12
cleary_ah07:12
* cleary_ didn't scroll up far enough - thanks lcuk ;)07:12
Flandryhow do you get the source package if the package isn't available?07:13
* cleary_ will be quiet07:13
Flandryare you adding debian repositories for source in scratchbox?07:13
lcukyou can add them, but i think you will get the same result07:13
ali1234well i just build a package for libode0, it wasn't so hard :)07:13
lcukyeah and i did one for OSC stuff07:14
lcuksome come across easily07:14
lcukothers are little pigs!07:14
n810debianwiretapped: should i retry?07:14
lcukFlandry, where abouts are you based07:14
FlandryBoston07:15
ali1234n810debian: how big is the ext2 image now?07:15
lcukmight be an idea to ask on the -dev mailing list07:15
n810debian214748364707:15
ali1234hmm07:16
lcuki have to sleep tho07:16
wiretappedn810debian: there is no /debian in that mount output... was it mounted when you ran that?07:16
lcukim in manchester and its vvvvvlate07:16
n810debianwiretapped: no07:16
lcukgnite chaps again07:16
wiretappedok then :)07:16
n810debianwiretapped: want me to rerun with it mounted?07:17
wiretappedyeah07:17
*** frade_ has joined #maemo07:17
n810debianhttp://maemo.pastebin.com/m102496d207:18
ali1234n810debian: can you run dumpe2fs on the image, and pastebin output please...07:18
n810debiani can't capture all the output (terminal cuts the top off)07:19
Flandrygoodnight lcuk07:19
ali1234install pastebinit07:19
Flandrythanks for your help07:19
ali1234redirect output to it07:19
n810debianali1234: can i output to a file?07:20
ali1234if you want, pastebinit is easier though07:20
Flandrymaybe somebody else can help me play with my mental blocks07:20
ali1234dumpe2fs /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 | pastebinit07:20
*** Shinto has joined #maemo07:21
*** dottedmag has quit IRC07:22
n810debian"importerror: no module named dom.minidom"07:22
ali1234pastebinit is broken?07:23
n810debianapparently07:23
ali1234nice07:23
ali1234missing python deps07:24
n810debian"Traceback ... File "/usr/bin/pastebinit", line 21, in <module> import urllib, os, sys, re, getopt, select, xml.dom.miidom, gettext"07:24
n810debianali1234: apt-get install python?07:24
* wiretapped is confused about how the same devices are mounted multiple times07:24
ali1234wiretapped: they're mounted inside and outside of the chroot07:25
n810debianwiretapped: assuming they are symlinks?07:25
ali1234wiretapped: with -o bind probably since that's the only way it would work07:25
wiretappedi'd expect that to be done with mount --bind07:25
wiretappedbut that wouldn't look like this in the mount output, would it?07:25
ali1234can do07:25
*** Moku has quit IRC07:25
ali1234but that isn't important07:26
*** droid001 has joined #maemo07:26
n810debianali1234: what should i install (why did it install without dependencies?)07:26
wiretappedperhaps not, but it is a mystery to me how mount has that output07:26
ali1234n810debian: how did you install it?07:26
n810debianapt-get install pastebinit07:26
wiretappedsudo mount --bind / /foo/07:26
ali1234wiretapped: mount just prints what it finds in mtab, no matter how crazy it is07:26
wiretappedmount|grep foo07:26
wiretappedon /foo type none (rw,bind)07:26
wiretapped / on /foo type none (rw,bind)07:27
wiretappedrather07:27
wiretappedthat is what i'd expect07:27
ali1234especially on busybox, it can get really confused. that output is relatively sane07:27
wiretappedok07:27
n810debianshould i just bittorent the image lol?07:28
ali1234what image?07:28
n810debiandebian-squeeze*07:28
*** vivijim has quit IRC07:29
ali1234i thought you already had it?07:29
n810debiani do, but i meant for further inspection07:29
ali1234oh i see07:29
ali1234just redirect the output to a file07:30
n810debianshould i rerun the commands and hope it expands the image?07:30
ali1234resize2fs should tell you what it is doing07:30
ali1234try it again07:30
n810debiantried a dumpe2fs *.ext2 >> file07:30
*** shdb has quit IRC07:30
*** shdb has joined #maemo07:31
n810debiantrying to open with leafpad07:32
n810debiancan pastebin do attachments?07:32
*** droid0011 has quit IRC07:33
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC07:33
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo07:33
n810debianali1234: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m5448e83307:34
ali1234still 314572*4096 = 1.2gb07:34
ali1234run resize2f on it again, and see what it sayd07:34
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo07:35
*** bergie has joined #maemo07:36
n810debianfix: yes or no?07:37
*** jdav_gone has quit IRC07:37
n810debianfree blocks count wrong for group #7 (6, counted=5); Fix<y>?07:37
*** LB has joined #maemo07:38
slonopotamusy07:38
n810debianls -l shows 214748364707:39
*** ArSa has joined #maemo07:41
*** trofi has quit IRC07:41
*** hardaker has quit IRC07:41
n810debianstill 23 MB free, not in the GB range07:41
n810debianany ideas for a fix? i can stop by in another few days07:43
ali1234what did resize2fs say?07:44
n810debiangave the errors above, and i hit "y" for fix07:44
*** gunni_ has joined #maemo07:44
ali1234and then what?07:44
n810debianno errors, completed successfully07:44
ali1234that's what e2fsck is supposed to say07:45
ali1234this is what resize2fs says:07:45
n810debianit says ****FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED ****, which seems to be a good thing07:45
ali1234Resizing the filesystem on /tmp/foo.img to 204800 (1k) blocks.07:45
ali1234The filesystem on /tmp/foo.img is now 204800 blocks long.07:45
ali1234****FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED **** is a message from e2fsck07:45
n810debiani ran it with after the && from the e2fsck07:46
n810debianmaybe i should run it on its own line07:46
n810debianrunning again07:47
ali1234just run resize2fs07:47
n810debianwon't let me input on its own line, needs e2fsck first, can i bypass that nonsense?07:47
ali1234?07:47
ali1234just run it07:47
*** Sargun has joined #maemo07:47
n810debianit says e2fsck -f needs to be run first07:48
Macerwtf07:48
Maceri don't think this tb keeps time07:48
Macerat all :)07:48
Macerhow lame07:48
n810debiani get this after ***FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED***: 52644/157440 files (2.7% non-configuous), 314542/314572 blocks07:48
ali1234n810debian: so resize2fs doesn't work on that image07:48
n810debianwait, its letting me input now07:49
n810debianawesome, resizing the filesystem...07:49
n810debianthe filesystem on /media/mmc1/deb*ext2 is now 524287 blocks long07:49
n810debianthe && doesn't work for the e2fsck and the resizefs, they have to be right after each other, each on their own line07:50
luke-jrhttp://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/armed-house.jpg07:50
n810debianls -l shows *.ext2 is 214748364707:50
n810debianshould i try umounting and retry?07:50
dmj7262http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/armed-house.jpg07:50
ali1234n810debian: you should never run any of e2fsck or resize2fs while it is mounted07:51
luke-jr...07:51
n810debiangood thing to practice on worthless data07:51
n810debianstill the ls -l *.ext2 same size after umounted07:52
n810debianassuming the closing debian script umounts the drive?07:52
ali1234no idea07:52
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC07:52
n810debianlet me reboot the n810 and try the commands right away after bootup07:53
n810debianno errors this time for the e2fs07:55
n810debianthis time i get another message: "the filesystem is already 524287 blocks long. Nothing to do!"07:55
ali1234sounds like it worked then07:55
*** macmaN6789 has joined #maemo07:56
wiretappedn810debian: the size ls -l shows won't change from resize2fs, it was changed from dd07:56
n810debianbooting debian07:56
n810debiannope, shows 23 mb free07:56
n810debianmust be an error in the resize2fs command07:57
*** gunni has quit IRC07:58
*** benh has joined #maemo07:58
n810debianshould i try resize2fs with the -f flag?07:59
ali1234no07:59
n810debianshould i shrink the filesystem to minimum then expand to maximum?08:00
ali1234you can't shrink ext208:00
ali1234that i know of08:00
n810debianthe manual says it supports shrinking ext208:01
wiretappedali1234: btw the manual also says you can grow ext3 filesystems while they're mounted, but not ext208:02
ali1234i wouldn't want to risk it08:02
ali1234anyway, here's what i think is happening08:02
ali1234i think the debian-easy-chroot thing has the size hardcoded08:02
ali1234so when it mounts the image, it sees an image that's bigger than the disk, and tries to fix it08:03
ali1234thus shrinking it back down to original size08:03
wiretappedinteresting theory08:03
ali1234because the resize2fs is clearly working08:03
ali1234why do they even bother with a loopback image anyway?08:03
wiretappedthe last time I used the easy debian package, which was before lenny was released, I resized my filesystem using dd and resize2fs and it worked.08:04
n810debianali1234: probably a quick fix to get it working08:04
n810debianim trying to find the file to manually edit08:04
ali1234a loopback image is more complex than just using a directory, and causes problems like this08:04
ali1234it's also slower08:04
n810debiani'll just have to uninstall programs and compile from src to a directory outside the image08:05
n810debianreserve the image for build-essential and libraries08:05
ali1234or just buy a decent sized sd card, format as ext2, extract the root image onto it, and use that08:06
n810debianthats what i did08:06
ali1234no, it isn't08:06
n810debiani bought a 4 gb microSD08:06
n810debianformated it as ext208:06
luke-jrn810debian: meh, just use Gentoo08:07
n810debiandownloaded the image onto the ext208:07
n810debianand used that08:07
luke-jrbut 4 GB isn't really decent sized08:07
luke-jrI'd recommend at least 8 GB08:07
ali1234luke-jr: debootstrap pwns gentoo08:07
n810debianits enought for small programs? i need 3 gb of software / OS on it08:07
wiretappedali1234++08:07
luke-jrali1234: doesn't sound like it :p08:07
luke-jrshrug, I've used 6 GB of my 808:08
ali1234luke-jr: the problem here is failure to use the proper tools, ie debootstrap, instead going for some kind of half assed premade rootstrap (similar to a gentoo stage 3 :P)08:08
wiretappedask google to complete the phrase "08:08
wiretappedgentoo is for"08:08
wiretappedheh08:09
n810debianis there a mer equiv that would have expandable image?08:09
luke-jrwiretapped: on the N810, you *have* to "rice"08:09
luke-jrpiece of crap has far too little RAM :p08:09
n810debiandoes mer run virtual like debian?08:09
n810debian!mer | n810debian08:10
luke-jr!mer08:10
luke-jrO.o08:10
n810debianno bot in here to answer my questions08:11
ali1234luke-jr: have you talked to solar about gentoo on n810? cos i'm sure he'd be interested08:11
GeneralAntillesNot all bots use the same trigger.08:11
GeneralAntilles~mer08:11
infobotsomebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer08:11
*** Hydroxid1 has joined #maemo08:11
*** Hydroxide has quit IRC08:11
luke-jrali1234: he's aware of it, why?08:11
ali1234just wondered, since he's trying to get gentoo-embedded going08:12
luke-jrI'm the one who filed bugs against the USE mask on 'kde'08:12
n810debianawe, mer doesn't run virtual like debian!08:13
ali1234luke-jr: i use his embedded stuff on htc wizard with 64 mb, n810 by comparison is over specced08:13
luke-jrali1234: well, I run native.08:13
luke-jrhow do you get KDE to run in 64 MB?08:13
ali1234define "native"08:13
ali1234we don't. who the hell would want to run kde on a handheld?08:14
luke-jrali1234: my N810 runs Gentoo like my desktop PC08:14
luke-jrali1234: me08:14
ali1234i dont even want to run kde on my desktop08:14
luke-jrit's not like there's a usable alternative08:14
n810debianluke-jr: fluxbox08:14
ali1234that's like saying there's no usable alterniative to hemlock08:14
wiretappedluke-jr: you're a funny guy :)08:14
luke-jrn810debian: fluxbox isn't Qt408:15
n810debian#mer people are asleep08:17
luke-jrn810debian: afaik the only difference between Debian and Mer is that Mer has Hildon/Maemo bits08:18
luke-jrand Debian chroot isn't likely to work with X anyway08:18
ali1234not without some trickery08:19
ali1234the same tricky that's probably causing the resize to fail08:19
n810debianasking now08:20
*** SjB_ has joined #maemo08:20
*** SjB_ has quit IRC08:22
*** SjB__ has joined #maemo08:22
BBNSmmmm ... more game in extra ...08:23
*** rick_ has joined #maemo08:24
*** KMFDM has joined #maemo08:25
*** rick_ has quit IRC08:28
*** rick_ has joined #maemo08:30
*** rick_ has quit IRC08:31
*** rick_ has joined #maemo08:31
*** hannesw has joined #maemo08:32
*** Hydroxid1 has quit IRC08:35
*** Hydroxide has joined #maemo08:36
*** rick_ has quit IRC08:39
RST38hpine08:39
luke-jrnano08:39
RST38hpico!08:39
derfmutt08:40
*** Openfree has quit IRC08:40
*** rick_ has joined #maemo08:40
*** ferdna has quit IRC08:40
luke-jrkmail!08:41
*** Openfree has joined #maemo08:41
BBNSvim ... ?08:41
derfOne of these things is not like the others...08:41
*** frade_ has quit IRC08:41
BBNSactually two i guess. o_o08:42
*** fernand0 has quit IRC08:42
*** tekojo has joined #maemo08:43
*** tomdavidson has quit IRC08:43
tekojoMorning!08:43
RST38hmourning indeed08:44
*** promulo has quit IRC08:47
*** promulo has joined #maemo08:47
thuxmorning08:50
*** konttori_ has quit IRC08:52
*** philipl has joined #maemo08:53
Proteousmoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo08:55
Proteousrning08:55
Proteousexcept for it being evening and all08:56
thux9am here08:56
Proteous11pm here08:57
ProteousDO YOU KNOW WERE YOUR PEANUTBUTTER IS!08:58
thuxwonder what is the best time zone, not greenwich mean time anyway it is mean :)08:58
Proteousheh08:58
*** rick_ has quit IRC08:59
Proteouspacific standard time is the standard08:59
Proteousthat means it's better08:59
Proteousand the pacific coast rocks08:59
Proteousso :P08:59
thuxsounds like it08:59
* suihkulokki points Proteous to http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html09:00
*** shdb has quit IRC09:00
Corsacmorning09:01
*** shdb has joined #maemo09:01
luke-jrUGT is the standard, n00bs09:02
dmj7262techdirt has an article on the Nokia->Apple lawsuit09:02
dmj7262http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091022/1102066639.shtml09:03
dmj7262Please don't flood the comments with Nokia fanboy flames09:03
`0660_why not? :P09:04
dmj7262Though I'm sure most of us here are less fanboys than most platforms have09:04
`0660_i thought only apple had fanboys09:04
dmj7262Yeah, we've got nothing on them09:04
*** bergie has quit IRC09:04
dmj7262...We actually complain when Nokia screws up, Apple fanboys manage to cheer every nasty move Apple makes as though it were a good thing.09:05
*** alexga has joined #maemo09:05
thuxwonder is nokia's legal department as strong as microsoft's, somebody said that ms has more lawyers than coders :)09:06
dmj7262I did just post a comment there, but tried to keep it balance09:06
dmj7262M$ has a lot of both I think09:07
*** benh has quit IRC09:08
BBNShttp://www.lomography.com/ hmm the photo looks amazing ... wonder if we could do the same via software on N900.09:08
dmj7262Do Linux kernel, Debian, GNOME, etc hackers count :P09:08
BBNSdmj7262: more coders != code quality.09:09
dmj7262never said M$ had quality code09:09
dmj7262Maemo != WinMo09:09
BBNShow about LinMo?09:09
dmj7262Question: Why does M$ think scrollbars are a good idea on a phone?09:09
`0660_hmm, i think the author of that article is an apple fanboy09:10
dmj7262particularly to use with one of those tiny rollerball mice in mobile phones09:10
*** lpotter has joined #maemo09:11
dmj7262'0660_: I don't think he is09:11
dmj7262He probably hasn't heard of Maemo though09:11
*** `0660_ is now known as `066009:11
`0660well, at least it seems that the author hasn't done any research in the case before putting the blame on nokia09:13
dmj7262that's probably true09:13
`0660i have read two articles about this case and i have no clue if the case is justified or not09:13
*** geaaru has joined #maemo09:14
dmj7262If one didn't know Nokia's Maemo plans one probably would assume that it was a ploy to avoidinnovating09:14
dmj7262...any guesses as to whether Nokia is innovating? ;)09:14
thuxcould be true that iphone sell more09:14
`0660arstechnica might come up with better analyzing09:15
thuxat least newspaper explained why people rather buy iphone than nokia's smart phones09:15
dmj7262techdirt is good, but focuses on other things09:15
BBNSdmj7262: market volume never means innovation. =] just see the dos versus unix war back to 80s.09:16
`0660like? :)09:16
dmj7262http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090929/0406186352.shtml09:16
BBNSthux: iPhone is like point and shoot. Maemo is like DSLR.09:17
dmj7262techdirt is mostly about copyright, patents, etc09:17
*** herwood_ has quit IRC09:18
Corsacisn't “like DSLR” a bit optimistic?09:18
`0660http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/10/nokia-sues-apple-says-iphone-infringes-patents.ars09:18
BBNSCorsac: i believe it has such potential, don't you think? it doesn't have crappy UX, or burden of Symbian.09:19
`0660yes, arstechnica seems to have better reporting on this09:19
dmj7262I think he meant iphone is easy and good enough for a lot of people but photography enthusiasts prefer the freedom and capabilities of a DSLR09:19
BBNShowever, the acceptance of massive market is not in our hand.09:19
BBNSdmj7262: thanks09:19
BBNSdmj7262: and N900 photo shooting is very impressive, that's the face too.09:20
BBNSs/face/fact09:20
thuxsome reason most people seems to like easy to use devices09:20
dmj7262I agree.  It certainly beats the n900 my old decrepit camera phone09:21
dmj7262Now we just need easy and powerful09:21
Corsacand available09:21
Corsac:>09:22
dmj7262Corsac: that's the missing element!09:22
BBNSthux: definitely. but the world is so big that it shouldn't just allow one system exist.09:22
thuxtrue09:22
BBNSthux: i could hardly imagine the day of the world, only Apple thrives.09:22
*** avs has joined #maemo09:23
thuxworld use lot of windows too09:23
BBNSit's like impose human mind to a single way of thinking.09:23
BBNSperhaps, but windows give me a such feeling that it's not as dominant as before.09:24
dmj7262I don't think any of us want a Maemo only world, but we sure wouldn't want to be without something like it.09:24
BBNSdmj7262: i found interesting thing that open source system rarely being success in mass market. There are fewer outliers though, such as FF. Most of them only linger within community.09:26
BBNSdmj7262: or being used by power users.09:26
dmj7262'0660_: the ars article is better, though it's worth noting that they have had several maemo 5 articles so far09:27
Corsacand FF has many issues related to its success09:27
Corsaclike, it's a crap09:27
Corsacand mozilla developers aren't exactly the most unix-friendly ones09:27
Corsacmaybe because of the MOCO, but they seem to now think only in terms of market-shares :/09:28
BBNSbut its popularity could not be ignored. just like iPhone or something like that.09:28
`0660dmj7262, they have plenty more articles about iphone. they seem to be pretty balanced overall09:28
BBNSi am still not sure what's the best marketing strategy for maemo.09:28
dmj7262didn't say that.  I was just pointing out that they have a longer history of writing about Nokia's OSS doings09:29
dmj7262FOSS software generally hasn't gained mainstream appeal, but if you look that the ones that have, you'll notice that they make themselves easy to use and available.09:30
thuxwhat about open office vs. ms-office, is ms-office that much better that people should pay for office-suite?09:31
*** ArSa has quit IRC09:31
dmj7262also marketing09:31
`0660that's true, though my guess is that it didn't affect the content of this article at all09:31
* timeless_mbp kicks Corsac 09:31
dmj7262Firefox had a *lot* of grassroots marketing09:31
timeless_mbphistorically most firefox devs built on linux09:31
timeless_mbpwith time they've switched to using OS X because the tool chain for profiling actually works09:32
dmj7262I had heard it was slower on linux even in 199809:32
timeless_mbpnote that Mozilla devs historically actually *worked* on profilers for linux09:32
timeless_mbpdmj7262: the linux compiler toolchain has *always* sucked09:32
Corsactimeless_mbp: I don't really talk about the pass09:32
timeless_mbpCorsac: a pass is a free pass09:33
Corsactimeless_mbp: but nowadays they're not interested in unix stuff09:33
timeless_mbpi'll give you one to find a dictionary09:33
Corsacsorry ><09:33
timeless_mbpyou want "past"09:33
Corsacwhat about free past?09:33
timeless_mbpanyway, please don't rant about open source software vendors here09:33
timeless_mbpit's inappropriate and highly offensive09:33
thuxsome poor villages near by just paid 180.000e for ms-office 200709:34
Corsacwell, there's a part of rant, sure, but those are fact (and, tbh, they do what they want, nobody force them to do either)09:34
Corsacit's just that, as a unix user, I'm now disapointed09:34
Corsac(sorry, eot)09:34
thuxopen office would have been cheaper09:34
*** LB has quit IRC09:35
dmj7262Sometimes the MS Office decision is made without *really* knowing about the OO.o alternative.  Other times it's because the M$ product isactually worth it to them.09:36
timeless_mbpyour disappointment is misdirected09:36
timeless_mbpgo blame the linux toolchain for sucking09:36
timeless_mbpstart w/ gcc (historically, and in fact up to today)09:36
dmj7262There is a lot of work on FF to make it be as fast as possible on linux09:37
`0660yeah, it seems to be targeted to windows first09:37
* timeless_mbp shrugs09:37
thuxwhy browser should be so fast?09:37
BBNSwith Sun's fate, i wonder OO.o would still be as active.09:37
timeless_mbpi've been working on gecko for 10 years09:38
dmj7262Of courseM$ manages to make Firefox insecure.09:38
timeless_mbpvery little if anything is targeted at windows first09:38
timeless_mbpsure windows os integration w/ help from ms is targeted at windows09:38
timeless_mbpbtu you can hardly blame anyone for that09:38
*** Wikier has joined #maemo09:38
dmj7262Linux distros don't add security holes to Firefox09:38
* timeless_mbp coughs09:38
timeless_mbpnot true09:38
timeless_mbpMaemo certainly does09:38
timeless_mbpand has for a couple of major releases09:38
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: then why is it that Mozilla products work better in WINE than Linux native? ;)09:39
timeless_mbpand i think ubuntu and a few others have09:39
dmj7262compiler toolchain09:39
timeless_mbpluke-jr: as i said, the linux toolchain, esp the compiler, sucks09:39
timeless_mbpthat's the proof text09:39
dmj7262how have they added holes to firefox?09:39
thuxcause gecko experts around can you make webpage to call xterm through gecko?09:39
timeless_mbprebuild mozilla using gcc for windows and try running it on wine w/ linux09:39
timeless_mbpit won't be fast09:40
timeless_mbpthux: there was one years ago09:40
thuxbut not now?09:40
timeless_mbp"xmlterm"09:40
Corsactimeless_mbp: xulrunner^Wfirefox for OSX is not built with gcc?09:40
thuxok09:41
timeless_mbpCorsac: it is09:41
Corsacok09:41
dmj7262how is firefox on linux made insecure?09:41
*** danielwilms has joined #maemo09:41
timeless_mbpdmj7262: i have a meeting that started 10mins ago09:41
timeless_mbpand i'm roughly 15mins away09:41
timeless_mbpbut a short list:09:41
Corsacnice09:41
*** L0cutus_ has joined #maemo09:42
timeless_mbp1. nokia management made it so that clicking on .install files in the browser automatically runs them09:42
timeless_mbpthat means that it's easy to game users into adding repositories directly09:42
timeless_mbpthat's a Maemo version of making the browser insecure09:42
dmj7262eww09:42
timeless_mbpsimilar random evil things have been done by other groups09:42
thuxas a noob i have never understand why distros let the browser take so much cpu09:42
dmj7262no notice that it's going to do that?09:42
timeless_mbpthe notice is me telling you that now09:43
*** _marcell_ has joined #maemo09:43
dmj7262yuck09:43
timeless_mbpif you look at the history of why debian doesn't have firefox branding09:43
dmj7262I can understand it installing them09:43
*** hannesw has quit IRC09:43
timeless_mbpyou'll find that debian broke security features09:43
dmj7262but there should be a message first, like09:43
timeless_mbp(that's 2.)09:43
timeless_mbpoh, there's a message09:43
timeless_mbpbut the problem is09:43
timeless_mbpusers are gameable09:43
dmj7262"You are about to install software.  Be sure this is what you want."09:44
thuxi myself would reduce the amount of cpu that gecko can use09:44
timeless_mbpyou can convince them to click on one position of your choice09:44
dmj7262thux: you can09:44
danielwilmsjust a short notice: maemo.org is down right now due to network problems09:44
timeless_mbpand the position needed is fixed09:44
Corsactimeless_mbp: no it's not, btw09:44
timeless_mbpCorsac: which is not?09:44
Corsac(about debian vs. firefox branding)09:44
timeless_mbpCorsac: i was involved in it09:44
timeless_mbpi know what i'm talking about09:44
timeless_mbpi reviewed there patches09:45
*** sphenxes has joined #maemo09:45
* timeless_mbp grumbles09:45
timeless_mbptigert: ping09:45
*** tekojo_ has joined #maemo09:46
*** tekojo has quit IRC09:46
*** tekojo_ is now known as tekojo09:46
tigertack09:47
timeless_mbpsorry, i needed a phone number, found it in calendar09:47
tigertok09:48
timeless_mbpthanks for ponging09:48
* timeless_mbp needs to figure out why a bunch of Address Book entries are empty09:48
timeless_mbpincluding this one :(09:48
*** DIMIR is now known as dimir09:48
Corsactimeless_mbp: I'm sure you're aware, and I guess it's enough trolling for this morning, but still. http://glandium.org/blog/?p=9909:49
Corsac(and now I'm off to work and you to your meeting :) )09:49
thuxi like about:config even noobs can tune browser to behave like they want09:49
*** vasily_pupkin has joined #maemo09:50
dmj7262I wouldn't trust my mom with about:config09:54
timeless_mbpCorsac: wrong set of patches09:54
timeless_mbpthe debian patch that was interesting was older09:54
timeless_mbpnow thanks for wasting my time09:54
*** jbn has joined #maemo09:54
timeless_mbpthe interesting patches from memory were in the ff1.5 range09:55
dmj7262Can the n900 IM client do irc?09:55
timeless_mbpdmj7262: kinda?09:55
timeless_mbpthere's no ui for group chat09:55
timeless_mbpwhich should make "doing" irc "interesting"09:56
timeless_mbpnote that you need to install telepathy-idle or something to get the irc backend09:56
dmj7262ah...would pidgin work better for that?09:56
*** JackBeSlow has quit IRC09:56
JaffaMorning, all09:56
* timeless_mbp shrugs09:56
timeless_mbpi prefer screen+ircii/epic09:56
vasily_pupkinah09:57
vasily_pupkinpidgin not working for me at all09:58
vasily_pupkinas for now O_o09:58
* tigert never liked irc software with a GUI09:58
timeless_mbpfwiw, i think i prefer http://pthree.org/2006/10/17/firefox-forgive-me/09:58
timeless_mbpyou can try xchat too09:58
*** ryoohki has joined #maemo09:58
* Stskeeps prefers irssi10:00
BBNSyikes ... the maemo.org looks messy right now.10:01
*** Meizirkki has joined #maemo10:01
timeless_mbp[9:44am] <danielwilms> just a short notice: maemo.org is down right now due to network problems10:01
timophseems to be working again10:02
BBNStimeless_mbp: i though "down" means unreachable. =P10:02
danielwilmsBBNS it was unreachable for a while...should be up again now10:03
timeless_mbpbbns: being down can often mean coming up to a rocky start10:03
BBNSdanielwilms: ah thanks. =P maybe it should be down a bit longer so that i could write a little more code.10:03
*** millenomi has joined #maemo10:03
timeless_mbphe box for "Advanced Power 0.4.0-7" should have scrollbars10:03
timeless_mbps/h/th/10:03
infobottimeless_mbp meant: the box for "Advanced Power 0.4.0-7" should have scrollbars10:04
*** trickie has joined #maemo10:04
danielwilmsBBNS :)10:04
*** generatorglukoff has quit IRC10:04
timeless_mbpdanielwilms:10:04
timeless_mbpEvents Feed10:04
timeless_mbp      Warning: chmod() [function.chmod]: Read-only file system in /mnt/netapp/pear/HTMLPurifier/DefinitionCache/Serializer.php on line 14910:04
timeless_mbpdanielwilms: could you make the file system less readonly?10:05
tekojotimeless_mbp that should go away with a reload10:05
timeless_mbpnope10:06
BBNShmm ... btw, anyway to sync Ovi calendar on N900? or right now only MFE syncs calendar?10:07
timeless_mbpright now someone was afraid of MfE10:07
timeless_mbpalthough i didn't quite understand why10:07
timeless_mbpi'm using it10:07
timeless_mbp(note that something ate some phone numbers, probably MfE)10:08
tekojotimeless_mbp is there a firewall between you and maemo.org?10:08
`0660timeless_mbp, i think the current situation is best with debian and firefox10:08
timeless_mbptekojo: does elisa include firewalls for its dsl subscribers?10:08
`0660i don't mind that firefox is called iceweasel in debian10:08
tekojotimels10:08
timeless_mbp`0660: oh, i didn't say today was as bad10:09
tekojono they shouldn't, which page is acting up after a shift+reload?10:09
timeless_mbpsomeone asked a generic "do linux distros ever break firefox security" question10:09
timeless_mbpthe answer is "yes"10:09
BBNStimeless_mbp: hmm ... MFE only supports one account. :-/ or I could be wrong?10:09
timeless_mbpbbns: officially that's correct10:09
timeless_mbpi'm told that most of the backend doesn't care10:10
timeless_mbpalthough there is a bit of ui glue stuff in a few places10:10
BBNStimeless_mbp: i heard the keyword, "official", means there is other way.10:10
timeless_mbpheard on the phone, "Sorry, my Meek was IN mute"10:10
`0660hmm. isn't the right answer no? debian has it's own security system in place for iceweasel which is not firefox :(10:10
`0660-( +)10:10
*** millenomi has quit IRC10:10
timeless_mbp`0660: i mentioned two vendors (debian [circa ff1.0/1.5], and maemo)10:11
timeless_mbpthe answer is that vendors can and do break security in browsers10:11
ali1234*cough* ssl rng *cough*10:12
BBNSoooh ... Maemo Developer Day in Denmark ... so tempting ... :-/10:12
timeless_mbpnote that debian also broke security for all browsers which visited servers for which debian software was used to issue SSL certificates (yay debianSSL)10:12
`0660breaking security = replacing firefox updates with distro specific mechanisms?10:12
*** millenomi has joined #maemo10:12
StskeepsBBNS: aren't you like far away from that? :P10:12
timeless_mbp`0660: no10:12
timeless_mbpbreaking security = breaking security10:12
timeless_mbpnot breaking security updates10:12
BBNSStskeeps: yeah ... and i doubt i would have budget.10:13
StskeepsBBNS: there should be in other cities too10:13
*** LB has joined #maemo10:13
`0660wouldn't the operating system be always break the security?10:13
BBNSStskeeps: make it in LA ...10:13
*** hally has joined #maemo10:13
timeless_mbp`0660: what's interesting is what bogus patches vendors add to browsers10:13
*** t0h has quit IRC10:13
*** marant has quit IRC10:13
timeless_mbpideally vendors will eventually drop their bogus patches10:14
`0660that would be ideal yes10:14
timeless_mbpin debian's case, i think they were dropped by 2.010:14
*** bergie has joined #maemo10:14
timeless_mbpbut the problem w/ debian was that they didn't make it easy for upstream to review their patches10:14
timeless_mbpand i don't mean "tossing patches to bug trackers"10:14
`0660but isn't firefox dynamically compiled on every platform anyway?10:14
timeless_mbpdebianSSL is another good demo of that10:14
timeless_mbp`0660: eh?10:15
timeless_mbp"dynamically compiled"?10:15
`0660:P10:15
timeless_mbpanyway, i have work to do10:15
timeless_mbpcan we drop this?10:15
`0660ok :)10:15
timeless_mbpthe point is that vendors can and do include at times patches which are bad for security10:15
timeless_mbpat this point nokia is a much bigger offender than debian10:15
`0660that's true10:15
*** LB has quit IRC10:16
timeless_mbpbut that's not relevant to the general statement that vendors can and do so10:16
timeless_mbpit's also incredibly inconvenient for me as i work for nokia on the affected upstream10:16
`0660and of course sometimes it's the other way around10:16
* timeless_mbp ponders10:16
*** millenomi has quit IRC10:16
timeless_mbpfwiw, i failed to attend my meeting in person because of chatter ;(10:17
`0660sorry for delaying you :)10:17
timeless_mbp`0660: if you mean that sometimes patches which are buggy are integrated, resulting in a net increase in security vulnerabilities...10:17
timeless_mbpthen yes, that does happen10:17
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo10:18
timeless_mbphowever, in general, we like to think that it's lower proportionally to the number of committed patches than a downstream's10:18
* timeless_mbp shrugs10:18
timeless_mbpagain, i'd rather drop this...10:19
`0660just go to your meeting already :)10:19
*** jbn has left #maemo10:19
timeless_mbphttp://www.n97n900.com/2009/06/30/issues-with-ovi-sync/10:20
timeless_mbpit already ended!10:20
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC10:20
timeless_mbpnext meeting is after lunch10:20
timeless_mbpso i just need to go to lunch soon10:20
*** argontus has quit IRC10:20
*** ad-n770 has joined #maemo10:21
BBNStimeless_mbp: another ovi UX horror? :Q10:22
timeless_mbpbbns: personally, if ovi sync were available, i'd probably wait :)10:23
* timeless_mbp tries to remember if calendar supports ics subscription urls10:23
* timeless_mbp thinks it does10:23
*** t0h has joined #maemo10:23
*** argontus has joined #maemo10:23
*** Openfree has quit IRC10:23
*** marant has joined #maemo10:23
Jaffatimeless_mbp: I don't think it exposes it in the UI if it does10:23
BBNStimeless_mbp: didn't find this option ... :-/10:24
timeless_mbpJaffa: i've translated the strings for it...10:24
Jaffatimeless_mbp: If it did, it'd make Google sync much nicer than Mail for Exchange10:24
BBNSplease make this feature available! *droll*10:24
*** eichi has joined #maemo10:24
*** Openfree` has joined #maemo10:24
BBNSthen my wish is completed!10:24
Jaffatimeless_mbp: The "New Calendar" wizard looks like it may have been able to do it, but all you can do is create a new local calendar.10:25
* Jaffa wonders about poking around in gconf ;-)10:25
*** elysion has joined #maemo10:25
timeless_mbpyeah, i just walked through the wizard10:25
timeless_mbpso, at the very least we "support" MfE and PCSuite syncing10:26
BBNSo.o create a local calendar then point to some url you mean?10:26
* timeless_mbp sighs10:26
BBNStimeless_mbp: don't have Windows available. :-/ PCSuite is not an option.10:26
timeless_mbpsigns that someone isn't thinking10:26
timeless_mbpbbns: Wine? :)10:26
timeless_mbp"cal_va_and" "and"10:27
timeless_mbpyeah, that works10:27
BBNSi would rather like to have multi-MFEs ... /_\10:27
timeless_mbp"cal_ib_calendar_added_web"10:27
timeless_mbpthat's the string10:27
*** sleipnir has joined #maemo10:28
fatal^is there a maemo mapper for n900 yet? Does anyone know if there's already a porting effort?10:28
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Ta10:28
timeless_mbpthe string is very odd10:28
Jaffafatal^: No and no (i.e. I don't know)10:28
timeless_mbpa hypothetical comment implies that they're talking about URLs10:28
timeless_mbpand a moment later it talks about files10:28
timeless_mbphypothetically of course10:29
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Ah. The "web" suffix implies URLs too10:29
timeless_mbpsince ids come from .mo files :)10:29
JaffaOf course10:29
Stskeepsfatal^: there's an effort, not sure how far they are10:29
*** jrocha has joined #maemo10:29
timeless_mbpanyway, worst case, you should be able to cheat by using cron + wget to update the file10:29
timeless_mbpif calendar gets that wrong, please file a bug10:29
Jaffatimeless_mbp: There's no UI for selecting a file either, AFAICT10:29
*** hannesw has joined #maemo10:30
timeless_mbpi haven't seen a ui string for that, no10:30
timeless_mbpi think you use file manager or a command line10:30
timeless_mbpbut that wasn't the question ;-)10:30
*** shdb has quit IRC10:31
elysionanyone know how to disable the screen saver in applications in maemo 5?10:31
*** tekojo has quit IRC10:31
fatal^Stskeeps: do you know where I should look to get involved?10:31
*** shdb has joined #maemo10:31
*** tekojo has joined #maemo10:31
Jaffaelysion: There was a thing you could poke in Maemo 4, I assume it's the same. Look at, for example, the FlipClock or Maemo Mapper source code10:31
Stskeepsfatal^: i think their svn is getting updated on garage10:31
elysionJaffa: ok, thanks, will look into those10:31
*** millenomi has joined #maemo10:33
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo10:34
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo10:39
*** lbt_ has joined #maemo10:39
*** videolink has joined #maemo10:40
*** LB has joined #maemo10:40
*** calvaris has joined #maemo10:42
* timeless_mbp ponders10:44
* timeless_mbp should convert mxr from using svn for garage to using hg for garage :)10:44
timeless_mbpthat'd be a good start10:44
timeless_mbpit'd save me lots of space and time10:45
*** eton has joined #maemo10:45
* lbt_ thinks timeless_mbp means git, not hg10:45
timeless_mbpnope10:45
timeless_mbpi don't have backend support for git10:45
* lbt_ feels sorry for timeless_mbp10:45
timeless_mbpbut i can convert git to hg and svn to hg10:45
timeless_mbpgit isn't a problem specifically, it just isn't something i've spent time adding support for10:46
lbt_np10:46
timeless_mbpthe advantage of git over svn is space savings10:46
* lbt_ enjoys teasing people over git10:46
lbt_but I'm not religous10:46
timeless_mbpthe advantage of hg over svn is space savings + bonsai10:46
timeless_mbpthe problem of course is that to do it, i'd have to figure out how to convert my meta data about where trunks are in svn into something for the converter tool10:47
timeless_mbpand the garage svn's are a mess10:47
timeless_mbphttp://mxr.maemo.org/garage/find?string=trunk%2F[^%2F]*%2410:48
timeless_mbpnote that in a sane and easy to deal w/ system, trunk should always be the second level of the tree10:48
timeless_mbpthen check out vpnc and pymaemo10:48
timeless_mbpor telardcci10:49
timeless_mbpoops10:49
*** videolink has quit IRC10:49
* timeless_mbp sighs10:49
timeless_mbpit seems like i didn't correctly deal w/ telardcci10:49
* timeless_mbp kicks it10:49
timeless_mbpcompare: http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/telardcci/contextDataProviders/telargps/10:50
timeless_mbphttp://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/pymaemo/packages/cython/10:50
timeless_mbpany time you see a symlink in my garage xref, it means that i manually "fixed" the directory to omit things which aren't trunkish (branches, tags)10:51
*** sergio has joined #maemo10:51
*** rick_ has joined #maemo10:51
*** carloscesa has quit IRC10:54
*** fab has joined #maemo10:54
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC10:54
*** eichi has quit IRC10:57
*** veiz has joined #maemo10:59
*** sgbirch has joined #maemo10:59
*** veiz has quit IRC10:59
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo11:01
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo11:01
sgbirchAnybody want to chat about maemo, I want to clear up some of my own cofusion (I have a N810 and am considering a n900)11:01
*** sphenxes01 has joined #maemo11:01
Stskeepsjust ask :)11:01
*** rick_ has quit IRC11:01
sgbirchwell .. I have a few things that confuse.  Lets start with the name.  OS2008, Maemo, chinook, diablu11:02
JaffaAny gtk+ experts want to tell me how I can add a GtkHButtonBox to a GtkWindow about 2/3rds of the way down the screen, rather than padding it in the middle?11:02
sgbirchall of these confuse me11:02
*** avs has quit IRC11:02
Stskeepssgbirch: http://wiki.maemo.org/Codenames11:02
RST38hsgbirch: Maemo is the overall name11:02
RST38hsgbirch: Chinook, Diablo, and Fremantle are names for particular versions11:02
sgbirchand os2008?11:02
sgbirchI am looking at the page btw11:02
RST38hsgbirch: it is a synonym for Diablo and Chinook11:03
*** hannesw has quit IRC11:03
RST38hChinook is OS2008, Diablo is OS2008.111:03
*** hannesw has joined #maemo11:03
Jaffasgbirch: OS2008 is the "external" name of Chinook and Diablo (which are codenames)11:03
RST38hBoth can be calles OS2008 though, as they are very similar11:03
sgbirchDoes the n900 run os2009?11:03
Stskeepsit runs Maemo5.0 / Fremantle11:03
RST38hYes, if you use this naming scheme11:03
sgbirchok11:03
RST38hBut more popular names are Maemo5 and Fremantle11:03
sgbirchok11:04
RST38hUsing the same scheme, Chinook/Diablo are Maemo411:04
Jaffasgbirch: However, Nokia have dropped the OS200x naming scheme. Instead, it's Maemo 5.11:04
sgbirchprobably wise11:04
*** rick_ has joined #maemo11:04
RST38hDunno, I think if you say OS2009 nobody but a few wikipedians will care11:04
sgbirchit is the proliferation of overlapping names which causes the confusion, at least in my mind11:04
*** cmvo_ has quit IRC11:04
RST38hit is pretty clear, actually. If you want overlapping names, check Intel =)11:05
*** cmvo_ has joined #maemo11:05
sgbirchno kidding11:05
sgbirchor Microsoft11:05
mgedminJaffa: put it into a GtkAlignment (iirc) and set the alignment to 0.66611:05
sgbirchnew version of Vista is called Windows 7 for goodness sake11:05
Jaffamgedmin: Ta11:05
sgbirchok .. so11:05
sgbirchI think I get the names11:06
sgbirchkinda11:06
mgedminJaffa: http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/sec-Alignment.html11:06
Jaffamgedmin: Got it. Ta11:06
sgbirchI am hearing that OS200x will be dropped, but that seems to be big on the maemo site11:06
RST38hsgbirch: for all practical purposes you can still ose OS200x11:06
RST38huse11:06
RST38hsgbirch: So, just choose whatever name you like best and use it11:07
sgbirchRST38h: but .. my next stop is to sources.list11:07
sgbirch(I am very experienced Linux user)11:07
*** gaspa has joined #maemo11:07
RST38hand what is there?11:07
sgbirchwell .. nothing, so I deduce that hildon-application-manager.list is used instead11:07
sgbirch?11:07
sgbirchis /etc/apt/sources.list.d11:08
mgedminwell, yes11:08
mgedminstandard apt stuff11:08
sgbirchbtw ... I am not critical of any of this, I LOVE the device.11:08
mgedmin/etc/apt/sources.list + /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list11:08
Corsactimeless: is garage somewhat related to gforge?11:08
Corsacfusionforge I mean11:08
sgbirchoh .. ok11:08
sgbirchsources.list.d must be dpkg (or apt) extension I have not used before, I assume it isnt specific to the Nxxx11:09
sgbirchok .. that makes sense11:09
*** avs has joined #maemo11:09
sgbirchCan I post my hildon-application-manager.list here, it is about 15 lines?11:10
mgedminuse a pastebin11:10
RST38hpastebin indeed11:11
sgbirchhow do I get to that (dont use IRC much)11:11
mgedmingo to http://pastie.org or some other site of your preference11:12
mgedminpaste your text here11:12
*** miksa007 has joined #maemo11:12
mgedmins/here/there/11:12
infobotmgedmin meant: paste your text there11:12
KMFDMthen post the link here11:12
mgedminpaste the link you get from the pastebin here11:12
sgbirchhttp://pastie.org/66636511:12
sgbirchcool11:12
RST38hso, what are we supposed to see there?11:13
sgbirchwell .. I see a mix of chinook and diablo11:13
RST38hLooks ok. The Mozilla source is kinda strange but it is probably Fennec?11:13
sgbirchnot sure how .. is that correct11:13
RST38hmix of chinook and diablo is generally ok11:13
sgbirchfennec .. yes11:14
RST38hit is not advised but some packages have never been moved to Diablo, so it makes sense11:14
sgbirchthat seems pretty strange to my eye11:14
sgbirchoh11:14
RST38hChinook and Diablo are more or less the same system11:14
RST38hNow, if you had Fremantle repos there I would be worried11:14
sgbirchyes, this is strange11:14
sgbirchlol11:14
sgbirchany idea why diabli wasnt released with a clean compile of all apps?11:15
sgbirchdiablo*11:15
mgedminit wasn't?11:15
sgbirchmgedmin: RST38h said that "some packages have never been moved to Diablo"11:16
mgedminfor example?11:16
Corsac(was there any E* release?)11:16
Corsacor E* and G* are unreleased development stuff?11:16
sgbirchRST38h: can you give an example of packages in Chinook but not Diablo?11:16
RST38hNo. Check the repos.11:17
sgbirchmgedmin: if that info was incorrect, then it makes no sense to have chinook lines in sources.list, correct?11:17
Meke* was skippped, gregale was already released earlier11:17
sgbirchmgedmin: should I remove them11:17
mgedminonly if you will not miss any software you're currently getting from them, sgbirch11:18
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo11:18
sgbirchmgedmin: ok. That leads me to the next question11:18
*** veiz has joined #maemo11:19
sgbirchmgedmin: I am really surprised at how infrequently the software is upgraded on the N81011:19
* mgedmin had decided to be a good boy somewhere around that time and only had maemo extras for diablo in his sources.list11:19
* mgedmin tried to rebuild missing packages in scratchbox and upload them all to extras, for values of "missing packages" important to him only11:19
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC11:19
sgbirchmgedmin: compared to desktop distros (debian, ubuntu, red hat etc), the n810 is almost never upgradede11:20
mgedminis that a question?11:21
sgbirchI would expect a trickle of updates with at least a few every month11:21
sgbirchmgedmin: observation, the question is .. why so few?11:21
RST38hYou should direct this question at Nokia11:21
RST38hNone of us know why11:21
mgedminwell, nokia releases SSUs from time to time11:22
mgedminwe have no idea when or why11:22
mgedminand for packages in extras, they're community-maintained11:22
sgbirchmgedmin: yes .. I didnt understand that when they made the great decision to use dpkg11:22
mgedminnew updates appear when somebody makes a release11:22
mgedminonly the community is not as large or vibrant as the ones for debian/ubuntu/red hat etc.11:22
mgedminyet (hopefully)11:22
sgbirchmgedmin: ahh11:23
JaffaHmm. Latest Karmic update seems to have broken Scratchbox11:23
sgbirchmgedmin: I tried to find the list of sources at the maemo web site11:23
sgbirchno luck11:23
mgedminsgbirch: it's recommended to only have a few standard repost11:23
RST38hlist of sources for what?11:23
sgbirchI see applications .. they invite me to click to download, but I dont see how that ties in with apt/dpkg11:23
mgedminsuch as the nokia repo and maemo extras11:24
sgbirchRST38h: repository sources for sources.list11:24
mgedminthe "click to download" stuff gives you a small text file which contains information about the apt repository and the package name11:24
mgedminideally the apt repository is always maemo extras11:24
RST38hA click on the .install file from the tablet will make it load that file into app manager and install the package based on the repo information there11:24
mgedminthink of extras as like the ubuntu universe11:24
mgedminpackages not officially supported, but maintained by volunteers11:24
RST38hsgbirch: why should they be at the web site?11:24
RST38hYou have got the list in your tablet, haven't you?11:25
sgbirchRST38h: yes .. but, for example, I hear you talk about extras .. but I dont see it in my list11:25
sgbirchRST38h: so I go to the web site to find it .. cant find out11:25
RST38hsgbirch: http://repository.maemo.org/11:26
sgbirchRST38h: I think the problem is this, Nxxx is part geek appearl and part consumer11:26
sgbirchRST38h: it is difficult for the former to get info about internals11:27
RST38hdifficult? hmm11:27
* RST38h has not found it difficult11:27
sgbirchRST38h: That is what I need, how would I have navigated there from the maemo.org site as a new user of maemo?11:27
mgedminhttp://repository.maemo.org/ has many repositories, actually11:27
*** dottedmag has joined #maemo11:28
sgbirchmgedmin: yes .. it is good. But I had to ask here to find that page.  How else would I have known it was there?11:28
mgedminwell, in diablo and fremantle extras is preconfigured11:29
mgedminyou have to go to the app manager and enable it, it's added but disabled by default11:29
*** elysion has quit IRC11:29
sgbirchmgedmin: it sounds like extras is the most important section :-)11:30
mgedminwell ...11:30
* mgedmin shrugs11:30
mgedminmost important to whom?11:30
sgbirchmgedmin: community driven software is what sets this device apart from (say) android11:30
mgedminpower-users -- yes11:30
mgedminfor various levels of "power", I suppose11:30
sgbirchmgedmin: that may be my problem .. I dont use the gui stuff much11:31
mgedminssh + sudo apt-get is quicker, yes11:31
sgbirchmgedmin: so .. my instinct is to fire up a shell and go look11:31
sgbirchmy ssh link to the dev keeps dropping11:31
sgbirchdoes it shut down when the device darkens the screen, to save power perhaps?11:32
*** EspadaV8_W has joined #maemo11:32
*** elysion has joined #maemo11:32
sgbirchmgedmin: how does your own sources.list appear, if you dont mind me asking?11:34
mgedminon my n810 or my n900?11:34
sgbirchmgedmin: you LUCK guy11:35
sgbirchmgedmin: n810 :-)11:35
*** cosmo has quit IRC11:35
sgbirchmgedmin: ok .. now I am green. I want a n900 so bad it hurts11:35
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo11:35
sgbirchmgedmin: are you a professional developer on this platform?11:36
mgedminhttp://pastie.org/66638111:36
mgedminI'm not getting paid for developing on maemo, no11:36
mgedminand I'm not developing on maemo either, in fact ;)11:36
mgedminI'd describe myself as a power user11:36
sgbirchmgedmin: Not .. THAT is more like it, nice clean sources.list file11:36
mgedminI think the fbreader repo is not necessary; fbreader is in extras11:36
sgbirchdo you find sshd reliable, it keeps dropping my link11:37
mgedminat some point extras had an older version (0.8) than fbreader.org (0.10) so I bit the bullet and re-added that repo11:37
mgedminsgbirch: known issue with wifi power savings being incompatible with buggy access points11:37
sgbirchok11:37
*** glass__ has quit IRC11:37
sgbirchmgedmin: is there a workaround?11:37
mgedminworkaround is to go to the connection list, find the right connection, find the advanced options dialog and lower the power savings level11:37
mgedminto intermediate (usually sufficient) or to none11:37
*** glass has quit IRC11:37
nnod_sgbirch: alternatively you can do something to keep the connection alive from the device, such as ssh to your machine and run top11:38
sgbirchnnod_: ok11:38
nnod_sgbirch: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=394511:40
sgbirchcool11:41
mgedminsuddenly I'm unsure if it's a bug in the access point, or if the bug was about something else (connections dropping even when initiated from the n8x0)11:41
sgbirchdoesnt ssh have a heartbeat capability?11:41
sgbirchmgedmin: cool .. I have changed the power setting .. thanks11:42
mgedminah, okay: "PSM, when working correctly on both ends, may introduce latency but shouldn't cause frames to be lost."11:42
mgedminso, AP bug11:42
*** avs has quit IRC11:42
nnod_i was having this problem last night, i had to do the ssh/top thing to keep it active11:42
mgedminI don't know if ssh heartbeats make thing better or worse11:43
mgedmin(worse by making ssh notice that the connection disappeared, when instead the short connection loss might pass unnoticed)11:43
*** glass has joined #maemo11:43
*** adeus has quit IRC11:44
sgbirchmgedmin: ahh11:44
nnod_i've found that i can even disconnect/reconnect to the network and get my ssh session back11:44
sgbirchmgedmin: I wonder if putting the ssh on an openvpn link would help11:44
*** kik2k0 has quit IRC11:44
mgedminI was having biig problems with ssh timing out yesterday over ad-hoc wifi11:44
mgedminuntil I noticed three different wlans (including my adhoc one) were trying to share channel 911:44
sgbirchmgedmin: lol11:45
*** vivainio has quit IRC11:45
*** carloscesa has joined #maemo11:45
*** croppa has quit IRC11:45
sgbirchmgedmin: another issue .. cant for the life of me use my HP hw6915 as a modem for the n81011:46
sgbirchhave never been able to get online via my phone11:46
sgbirchI suspect the problem is with the HP and not the n810 though11:46
mgedminHP makes phones?11:46
sgbirchyeah11:46
mgedminI've used a nokia phone for BT DUN11:46
mgedminI heard many newer phones no longer support BT DUN, they want BT PAN instead11:47
sgbirchhttp://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hw6915&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-GB:unofficial&client=firefox-a11:47
mgedminI believe there are instructions for setting up PAN11:47
sgbirchActually, the HP phone was well ahead of its time11:47
sgbirchI have had it for years .. has email, TomTom, browser ... al kinds of goodies that is now becoming mainstream11:47
sgbirchbut HP and Microsoft dropped the ball imho11:48
sgbirchIt is a wm5 phone11:48
mgedmineek!11:48
sgbirchmgedmin: quite good in its day, amazingly11:48
mgedminanything with 'w' in the name of the os cannot be good by definition11:49
* mgedmin <-- a bigot11:49
sgbirchmgedmin: when my n900 arrives the hp will retire ... and that is the last Microsoft code I use11:49
*** vivainio has joined #maemo11:49
*** vivainio_ has joined #maemo11:49
sgbirchmgedmin: bigot .. nah.  realist.11:49
inzmgedmin, be sure not to read maemo upside-down11:49
* pupnik_ is chatting using a real n81011:49
* inz is chatting using imaginary one11:50
sgbirchmgedmin: I am being thick .. cant understand the upside-down concept :-(11:51
sgbirchI cant believe how much better this ssh is with the power save turned off11:52
sgbirchwow11:52
mgedminecho maemo|upside-down11:52
*** LB has quit IRC11:54
*** andre__ has joined #maemo11:58
pupnik_sgbirch: what exactly did you turn off11:58
*** cleary_ has quit IRC11:59
*** rd has joined #maemo12:00
*** ptlo has joined #maemo12:00
*** shdb has quit IRC12:01
*** sarower has joined #maemo12:01
*** hellwolf has joined #maemo12:01
*** shdb has joined #maemo12:01
RST38hHeh, the device not out yet, and t.m.o is already getting "why doesn't maemo get tractionin the market"12:01
sarowerGoos morning all12:01
sarowerI have two deb package and I want that package 2 will be automatically be installed after package 1 is finished12:02
sarowerHow it could be done12:02
sarowerany body?12:02
MekI thought the /. comment "why are there 10 times as many iphones sold as n900's" was also rather amusing :)12:03
`0660:P12:03
RST38hcan''t argue, right12:03
sarowerHow package 1 should be made?12:03
sgbirchpubnik_: the power saving12:03
sgbirchpupnik_: made ssh become reliable12:03
sarowerif i give package 2 in postinst of package 112:03
sarowerIt gives error, something dpkg data base related12:04
mgedminI saw this Swedish article saying something about "Good prognosis for Android", and inside it was something resembling market share predictions of smartphone OSes12:04
mgedminit gave Maemo 4.5%12:04
mgedminsarower: Depends:12:05
glassdid they have links to their older prediction articles?12:05
*** hrw|gone is now known as hrw12:05
hrwmorning12:05
sgbirchmgedmin: android has been embraced by a ton of corps12:05
RST38h4.5% is way too sweet to be true12:05
sarowermgedmin: In the controll file?12:05
RST38hmoo hrw12:05
mgedminsarower: yes12:05
sgbirchmgedmin: even Barnes and Noble for their ebook reader12:05
sarowerBut my package is not in any repository12:05
mgedminthen put it in one, sarower12:05
sgbirchanyone going to lugradio live tomorrow?12:05
*** cleary has joined #maemo12:05
sarowerit will be in the local pc12:05
*** murrayc has joined #maemo12:05
mgedminfor testing you can simply dpkg -i the files in the right order12:06
sgbirchwho runs maemo.org?12:06
mgedmini.e. package 2 first, then package 112:06
RST38hMeanwhile in Japan: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/23/in-japan-nerds-control-girls-with-joysticks/12:06
RST38hsgbirch: The Cabal12:06
sgbirchmgedmin: man .. that power fix for ssh has transformed the device12:06
sgbirchmgedmin: sweet12:06
RST38hsgbirch: But for all practical purposes, talk to X-Fade12:06
sarowermgedmin: in which file the command should be?12:06
mgedminsgbirch: do you have avahi-daemon on it, for extra sweetness?12:07
* mgedmin loves being able to ssh mg-n810.local12:07
sgbirchavahi-daemon .. looking12:07
mgedminshame about the bug where it doesn't start on reboot12:08
mgedminand I have to manually sudo /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon start12:08
sgbirchmgedmin: is apt compatable .. can I start using it instead of the gui thing?12:08
sgbirchmgedmin: no .. dont have it installed12:08
mgedminsgbirch: yes, you can install stuff with apt-get12:08
*** croppa has joined #maemo12:08
mgedminjust be careful and don't do things like apt-get dist-upgrade if they say they'll remove half of the essential system software12:09
mgedminor even just a package or two12:09
sgbirchahhhhh .. installing avahi-daemon12:09
mgedminsgbirch: you'll want to set a hostname or edit /etc/avahi/avahi-daemon.conf12:09
RST38hmgedmin <-- meek12:09
sgbirchcool:12:09
sgbirch/etc/apt/sources.list.d # apt-get install avahi-daemon12:09
sgbirchE: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable)12:09
sgbirchE: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?12:09
mgedminbecause ssh Nokia-N810-bunch-of-random-numbers.local is not fun12:09
*** cleary has quit IRC12:09
sgbirchjust as I would hope (gui was still up)12:09
mgedminsgbirch: the app manager keeps the dpkg lock12:09
RST38hReal hackers use a fixed static IP like 192.168.0.666 =)12:09
sgbirchmgedmin: yes ... sweet.  Pertfect12:10
mgedminRST38h: when roaming in other people's wlans?12:10
RST38hmgedmin: mm, guess not12:10
sgbirchmgedmin: how is the n900 keyboard, I never liked the n810 - cant feel the keys well enough12:10
mgedminn900 is much better, key-wise12:11
sgbirchmgedmin: flat keyboard was the problem12:11
mgedminit has fewer keys12:11
sgbirchmgedmin: good12:11
mgedminI'd gotten used to the n810 keyboard12:11
mgedminit worked surprisingly well for shell/vim12:11
mgedminexcept for missing |, [ and ]12:11
sgbirchmgedmin: hey .. that reminds me.  I HATE the way it always capitalizes12:11
mgedminso turn off autocapitalization, duh12:11
RST38hit is configurable12:11
sgbirchmgedmin: can I turn that off and reclaim my sanity12:11
sgbirchI cant find the config for it on the n81012:11
mgedminthe n900 feels much better, but has fewer keys12:11
*** cleary has joined #maemo12:11
RST38hSettings->Keyboard12:11
mgedminno <, no >, no ~12:12
mgedminthe symbol popup is better than on n810 since it doesn't resize the terminal window any more12:12
mgedminand all those keys are accessible from it12:12
sgbirchmgedmin: cool12:12
*** bilboed-pi has joined #maemo12:12
mgedminstill, ~ is very cumbersome: fn + ctrl, ~ on touchscreen, space12:12
mgedminsince ~ is a dead_tilde12:12
sgbirchmgedmin: I only use the keyboard for messaging .. ssh to the device for other stuff12:12
sgbirchmgedmin: hmm .. I am in the control panel, but dont see keyboard12:13
mgedmindoes anybody know whether the wifi device needs to be up or down for iwconfig wlan0 mode/channel/essid, and in what order to do those?12:13
mgedminexperiments show that iwconfig wlan0 mode ad-hoc only works after ifconfig wlan0 down12:14
sgbirchmgedmin: there is "Text Input", it has an option "Handwriting case correctio"12:14
mgedminand that iwconfig wlan0 essid only works after ifconfig wlan0 up12:14
sgbirchmgedmin: but that is unchecked anyway12:14
sgbirchmgedmin: nah .. I dont see where to turn off the annoying uppercase "feature"12:15
inzHmh, my n800 touch screen is way off; so way off that the calibration applet refuses to accept corrective measures...12:15
pupnik_wow12:15
mgedmininz: at some point I discovered that calibration takes effect only after you reboot12:15
mgedminthat might've been fixed since12:15
mgedminsgbirch: I don't remember -- explore12:16
sgbirchmgedmin: ok12:16
mgedminit might be in the vkb's menu12:16
sgbirchmgedmin: did you say avahi needs to be started by hand?12:16
mgedminafter reboot, yes12:16
mgedminafter installation it comes up by itself12:16
mgedminsomething wrong with the init.d script or the rc2.d symlink12:16
*** rick_ has quit IRC12:16
pupnik_wish i could boot to single user / maintenance mode12:17
*** rick_ has joined #maemo12:17
sgbirchmgedmin: this is so cool, the device is now snappy and fast12:18
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo12:18
sgbirchmgedmin: all this time I just thought it was a slow cpu, and it was the wifi link12:18
w00tho hum12:18
sgbirchmgedmin: THANKS for that great tip12:18
Stskeepssgbirch: keep in mind power saving disabled will eat your battery quicker :P12:18
hrwok, did someone got 2.6.32-rc working on n8x0?12:18
sgbirchsure ..12:19
Stskeepshrw: not sure, but i'm all ears if you did12:19
sarower I have two deb package and I want that package 2 will be automatically be installed after package 1 is finished12:19
sarowerHow it could be done12:19
sarowerany body?12:19
sarowerif i give package 2 in postinst of package 112:19
sarowerIt gives error, something dpkg data base related12:19
sgbirchStskeeps: when I am doing the ssh thing the n810 is connected to power12:19
hrwsarower: ever heard about dependencies and repositories?12:20
hrwStskeeps: ha!12:20
saroweryes...12:20
ptlosarower, you don't want that; instead, if package 2 needs package 1 to be running properly, you should make pkg 1 depend on pkg 2; you do that by adding the pkg 2 name in pkg 1's control file Depends: field12:20
mgedminhrw: he has, I just told him 15 minutes ago12:20
sarowerbut i will not keep it in the repository at all12:20
hrwsarower: so you need to 'dpkg -i pkg1 pkg2' otherwise youre doomed12:21
mgedminadmittedly, I wasn't being very clear in my responses ...12:21
sgbirchmgedmin: I dont see any source repos in your sources.list.  What is the normal way to grab source of a package?12:23
*** mairas has joined #maemo12:24
sgbirchmgedmin: I mean, apt-get source xxxxx12:24
mgedminsgbirch: I don't grab source packages on my n810, I do that on my laptop, inside scratchbox12:24
sgbirchis scratchbox a vm?12:24
mgedminextras and extras-devel have the obvious corresponding deb-src lines12:24
sgbirchmgedmin: ok12:24
mgedminscratchbox is a development environment, sort of a cross between a chroot'ed debian system and a VM12:25
mgedmingoogle for "Maemo SDK"12:25
mgedminscratchbox takes care for cross-compiling ARM code12:25
mgedminby hooking up gcc with qemu or some such magic12:26
hrwsbox is workaround solution for cross-compiling12:27
sgbirchmgedmin: rats .. scratchbox doesnt seem to be in ubuntu12:27
mgedminnope12:28
sgbirchdeb http://scratchbox.org/debian/ apophis main12:28
mgedminyep12:28
*** vivainio_ has quit IRC12:28
sgbirchk12:28
mgedmininz had a very good blog post about setting up scratchbox and dev environments for several maemo versions12:29
sgbirchErr http://scratchbox.org apophis/main Packages12:29
sgbirch  404 Not Found12:29
*** trbs has joined #maemo12:29
sgbirchhmm12:29
RST38hsgbirch: Go with MaemoSDK+ =)12:30
sgbirchcatch 2212:30
sgbirchScratchbox installation found... no12:30
sgbirchE: Scratchbox not found in installation path '/scratchbox'.12:30
sgbirchE: Please complete scratchbox installation first.12:30
sgbirchmaemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh wants scratchbox installed12:30
CorsacRST38h: I didn't really manage to install maemo5 sdk for sb2 :/12:30
Corsacsgbirch: you're using amd64?12:30
sgbirchCorsac: yes12:31
RST38hCorsac: I think they still only have 5.0b1 available for SB212:31
mgedminsgbirch: you have options12:31
RST38hCorsac: But it is ok for development as long as you run stuff on the real device12:31
sgbirchmgedmin: I can run it in a vm12:31
CorsacRST38h: I don't have a real device :)12:31
mgedminsgbirch: do you want an SDK for the n900 (maemo 5) or an SDK for the n810 (maemo 4)?12:31
Corsacsgbirch: me too, my solution was to install a lenny i386 box in kvm12:31
RST38hCorsac: Oh, that would be a problem =)12:31
CorsacRST38h: *cry*12:31
Corsac:)12:31
mgedminmaemo 5 uses scratchbox from here: deb http://scratchbox.org/debian maemo5-sdk main12:31
RST38hLet me check if 5.0final bootstrap is there12:32
sgbirchmgedmin: hmmm .. good question, I have a n810 .. but n900 on order12:32
sgbirchmgedmin: does scratchbox let you run the maemo software?12:32
mgedminsgbirch: partially12:32
*** ssvb has quit IRC12:32
Corsacmgedmin: only i386 there :)12:32
sgbirchmgedmin: I mean .. can you run a virtual n810/n900 ?12:32
mgedminthere's a hacky solution where you rebuild the software for x86 and use Xephyr12:32
mgedminit's not a virtual nxx0 by any means12:32
mgedminno hardware emulation, lots of proprietary nokia software bits missing12:33
Corsacanyway the sdk installer wants scratchbox installed in /scratchbox which i don't really like12:33
mgedminI never bother12:33
Corsacso I decided to do all the scary stuff in kvm12:33
Corsacand don't break my host system12:33
sgbirchCorsac: yeah ... Ill do the same12:33
sgbirchCorsac: I use virtualbox though12:33
Corsacyeah, I prefer kvm which is more integrated12:34
Corsacand less qt :)12:34
CorsacI use a run.sh with:12:34
Corsackvm -daemonize -nographic -k en-us maemo.qcow2  -redir tcp:2222::2212:34
Corsacand then ssh to localhost:2222 and do stuff from there12:34
sgbirchCorsac: does kvm let you have multiple windows on the desktop?12:34
Corsacmultiple windows of the same vm?12:34
sgbirchCorsac: no, one window for each vm12:35
Corsacoh, sure12:35
Corsacrun as much kvm instances you want12:35
*** miksa007 has quit IRC12:35
sgbirchCorsac: I kinda was under the impression that kvm was a server vm12:35
Corsacnot really12:35
Corsacwell, you can use it (like me, with the -daemonize)12:35
Corsacbut the frontend is qemu-based12:35
sgbirchCorsac: does it have usb support?12:36
CorsacI think so12:36
Corsac(in my case I only use it as a build box for the moment)12:36
sgbirchCorsac: ok .. I installed kvm .. how do I get started with it (hints plz)12:36
Corsacwell, tbh, only used it to apt-get source the kernel :)12:36
Corsacsgbirch: hmh, don't follow me on kvm if you prefer (and are used to) virtualbox12:37
sgbirchCorsac:12:37
mgedminI believe there's a vmware image out there that contains ubuntu with scratchbox preinstalled12:37
sgbirchCorsac: oh ok12:37
Corsacbasically, you can get the vmware image and run it in kvm, I think12:37
mgedminI think vmware images can be converted to kvm/virtualbox ones, no?12:37
sgbirchCorsac: I switched from vm to scratchbox about a year ago12:37
Corsacvirtualbox will eat them directly12:37
sgbirchCorsac: from vmware, I mean12:37
Corsackvm I think so but I'm not sure12:37
Corsacto virtualbox you mean?12:37
sgbirchCorsac: yes vmware -> virtualbox12:38
sgbirchCorsac: I love virtualbox, it works well for me12:38
Corsacthe vmware image is ubuntu based, which I don't really like, so I reinstalled a lenny in kvm, but if you're fine with ubuntu and virtualbox, it might be the easiest option12:38
sgbirchCorsac: link?12:38
Corsacwait a sec12:38
sgbirchCorsac: thx12:38
Corsachttp://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/12:39
sgbirchanyone going to lug radio live?12:39
*** miksa007 has joined #maemo12:39
sgbirchCorsac: nice .. that is the way to do it.  They should move to vm, no fiddling around12:39
*** zap_ has joined #maemo12:40
hrwRST38h: no maemo5 rootfs yet? :(12:40
hrwRST38h: maemo5 on beagleboard would be handy for some testing12:40
RST38hhrw: Unfortunately none. Also, the SB2 website seems to be dead since August12:40
sgbirchRST38h: what do you mean?  I assume you can get root on maemo512:40
RST38hhrw: No idea what is going on12:41
mgedminsgbirch: no downloadable root filesystem image is currently available12:41
mgedminfor maemo 512:41
RST38hsgbirch: hrw is not asking about getting root privileges, he is asking about the so called bootstrap, the Maemo5 / image12:41
sgbirchmgedmin: but when you log into the n900, you can get root... right?12:41
mgedminalso, no kernel, which irritates me12:41
mgedminsgbirch: sure, same as with n81012:41
RST38hyes you can12:41
Stskeepshrw: we're working on maemo5 for beagleboard but we have some issues with a custom DSS patch atm in the nokia kernel12:41
sgbirchmgedmin: phew12:41
hrwStskeeps: ok12:41
sgbirchmgedmin: I bought an android .. and returned it because of that12:42
*** |dl9pf| has joined #maemo12:42
Stskeepsthat keeps SGX from working12:42
Corsacmgedmin: kernel is available12:42
sgbirchmgedmin: I was terribly disappointed when google played games with the SDK12:42
Corsacmgedmin: sources at least12:42
hrwStskeeps: that would make me easier to write post 'what I do not like in maemo5' before getting device ;D12:42
Stskeepshrw: SDK has some degree of the maemo experience (finally)12:43
mgedminCorsac: where?12:43
* RST38h is being forced to install Office200712:43
mgedminCorsac: SDK has kernel sources of an older version12:43
sgbirchmgedmin: another question .. why do they make us put in our serial number before we can get the binary.  It isnt a big deal, but an irritation12:44
mgedminwhy you asking me?12:44
Corsacmgedmin: oh12:44
sgbirchmgedmin: just thought you might know.12:44
Corsacmgedmin: sorry12:44
mgedminnp :)12:44
Corsacmgedmin: as I don't have the device, I don't really know which kernel it has atm :)12:45
*** panaggio has joined #maemo12:45
*** murrayc has quit IRC12:46
Stskeepssgbirch: better than a C&D and not having access12:46
Corsackernel-source | 2.6.28-20093908+0m5 | http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/free Packages12:47
sgbirchStskeeps: agreed12:47
mgedminin case you're interested, it has kernel 2.6.28-20094102+0m512:47
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC12:47
Stskeepssgbirch: and all things considered the EULA isn't that bad..12:48
mgedminiptables_nat.ko, when built from the 20093908 sources, fail to load because of mismatching symbol version12:48
mgedminif you strip symbol versions and forcefully load iptables_nat.ko, the device reboots12:48
*** Openfree` has quit IRC12:48
mgedminso, no turning the n900 into a 3g internet sharing device yet12:48
sgbirchStskeeps: I guess12:48
mgedminI'm forced to use ssh -D 108012:48
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo12:50
sarowerdurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr bal12:50
sarowervalo lage na12:50
Stskeepsmgedmin: sure there's no tethering support? :P12:51
mgedminthe official support is "you can plug in the USB cable and let the Nokia PC suite use your n900 as a 3G modem"12:51
mgedmincables suck, I want my connection sharing over wifi12:51
*** florian_kc is now known as florian12:51
Stskeepsah.12:51
*** bergie has quit IRC12:51
mgedminI sort of have it, by using ssh as a socks proxy12:52
sgbirchmgedmin: can you use bluetooth to connect to the n900, then gateway to the internet using 3g?12:53
mgedminbeyond my fu, currently12:53
mgedminI can barely figure out how to set up ad-hoc wifi from the command line12:53
sgbirchmgedmin: oh12:54
*** netvandal has joined #maemo12:55
SpeedEvilssh is awesome!12:55
netvandalhi guys, some one are using  hildon_find_toolbar?12:56
*** veiz has quit IRC12:57
*** lopz has quit IRC12:58
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo13:06
*** CrazyRobot has joined #maemo13:06
sgbirchmgedmin: which maps does the n900 gps use?  Does it have turn by turn directions?13:08
*** robink has quit IRC13:08
hrwsgbirch: Ovi Maps, and it should have13:08
sgbirchhrw: can it use osm?13:09
hrwno13:09
hrwand I am 105% fine with that13:09
hrwI cannot imagine driving with osm maps13:09
sgbirchhrw: ovi maps are included in price?13:09
kirmacan I specify stuff related to packaging in esbox? I haven't been very much into IDEs, really...13:11
hrwiirc yes, but you need to pay for routing functionality13:11
hrwat least thats how Ovi Maps works on S6013:11
hrwbut for S60 there are also cracked versions of Ovi Maps...13:12
SpeedEvilWhy can't it use OSM?13:13
SpeedEvilThe GPS isn't accessible to userspace?13:13
sulxhrw: unsigned?13:13
SpeedEvilOr do you simply mean that ovi maps can't use OS13:13
SpeedEvilM13:13
SpeedEvilAnd OSM is of varying coverage, in some places acceptable.13:14
hrwsulx: you have a problem with unsigned apps on s60?13:14
sulxovi maps are free yes13:14
sulxhrw: nope =)13:14
SpeedEvilI thought only one years ovi maps subscription came with the device13:14
hrwSpeedEvil: 1. gps is accessible 2. ovi maps do not use osm and rather this will not change 3. you can write/use own maps soft which will use osm13:15
sgbirchmaemo mapper works on the n900 though? With OSM13:15
sulxthere is also Navit...tho it's still quite unusable...13:16
*** netvandal has quit IRC13:17
SpeedEvilIn much of the world there are significant data quality problems meaning I would hesitate to use turn by turn mapping13:17
*** dl9pf has quit IRC13:18
*** bigbrovar has joined #maemo13:18
*** wazd has joined #maemo13:19
wazdYou'll be cackling like mad13:21
Stskeepsmm?13:21
wazdMy display is gone13:21
Stskeepsdisplay?13:21
wazdPC display)13:22
Stskeepsit died? :P13:22
wazdYep13:22
SpeedEvil:/13:22
SpeedEvilI'd offer you a spare, but shupping would be rather prohibitive.13:23
wazdI'm looking for a gun to shoot myself13:23
Stskeepswazd: you sure aren't lucky right now..13:23
SpeedEvilAre there any payment providers that allow payments into russia?13:23
wazdStskeeps: I never was actually)13:24
*** miksa007 has quit IRC13:26
Stskeepswazd: time for a holiday, the dead devices seem to say :P13:27
*** shdb has quit IRC13:30
*** shdb has joined #maemo13:31
ccookehmm. I wonder if there's any way to pause javascript and flash execution on web pages that have been minimised for some time13:32
*** lizardo has joined #maemo13:33
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC13:35
*** avs has joined #maemo13:36
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo13:36
*** sphenxes has quit IRC13:37
*** sphenxes01 has quit IRC13:37
*** sphenxes has joined #maemo13:42
*** hannesw has quit IRC13:44
* RST38h EHLOs whoever he has not ehloed yet13:45
*** baraujo has joined #maemo13:45
wazdRST38h: heya13:46
ccooke250 Hello RST38h13:46
Corsacis that /win 2813:50
Corsachmh.13:50
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo13:50
*** Phaeodaria has joined #maemo13:52
kyndeanyone know if/where the usb serial number of an N810 might be accessible from within the device?13:55
*** Free_maN has quit IRC13:55
till-lsusb -v?13:57
Corsacmaybe with a loopback cable ;p13:57
kyndeit's not in lsusb -v. and actually nevermind, since it appears to be same in all devices... :(13:59
*** sergio has quit IRC14:01
*** igagis has joined #maemo14:01
*** robink has joined #maemo14:01
*** halves has joined #maemo14:02
*** borism has joined #maemo14:03
igagishi14:04
RST38hwazd: How are things?14:05
wazdRST38h: totally bad, thanks)14:06
igagiswhere can I submit a bug against extras repo (I'm unable to do apt-get update on fremantle)???14:06
*** murrayc has joined #maemo14:07
*** sgbirch has left #maemo14:09
*** veiz has joined #maemo14:10
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC14:11
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo14:11
*** tekojo_ has joined #maemo14:13
*** tekojo has quit IRC14:14
*** hannesw__ has joined #maemo14:14
*** tekojo_ is now known as tekojo14:14
zerojayigagis: Did you fill up your root partition??/14:15
wazdRST38h: my PC  display is gone :)14:16
*** Anunakin has joined #maemo14:16
lcukwazd, more problems or something you are happy about?14:17
wazdlcuk: do I look like a man who's happy bout something being broken while having no mmoney14:18
lcuk:( u are not having a good run atm wazd14:19
lcukhave you solved the paypal problem now or is that still impractical?14:19
wazdlcuk: I never had14:19
*** cirzgamanti`` has joined #maemo14:19
wazdlcuk: now we can receive donations, yes14:20
lcukwhats the link again, i tried to donate when it was first mentioned14:20
*** alexga has quit IRC14:20
*** RobertH[AU] has joined #maemo14:20
*** igagis1 has joined #maemo14:21
*** yerga has joined #maemo14:22
*** ArSa has joined #maemo14:22
RST38hwazd: In other circumstances I would say it were a lucky reason to buy a new one =)14:22
*** hannesw_ has quit IRC14:23
*** igagis has quit IRC14:23
*** mihu has joined #maemo14:24
*** alehorst has quit IRC14:26
*** alehorst has joined #maemo14:27
wazdRST38h: the funny thing is, that I knew that my display was dying and had some cash to buy HP H-IPS one, but I have to finish current work till sunday and get my money to buy it14:28
* SpeedEvil remembers once mudding with a printer, when his screen broke.14:28
RST38hwazd: Steal your sister's laptop quick =)14:28
*** andre__ has quit IRC14:29
*** penguinbait has joined #maemo14:29
wazdRST38h: aaaha, you don't know!))))14:29
*** alehorst has quit IRC14:30
wazdRST38h: she fried it yesterday ))14:30
wazdRST38h: and THAT is the Irony14:30
RST38hOh.14:32
*** lbt_ has quit IRC14:33
*** alehorst has joined #maemo14:33
igagis1zerojay: what do you mean "fill up root partition"?14:34
*** cirzgamanti` has quit IRC14:35
igagis1zerojay: when I do the 'apt-get update' it fetches some info from repos but, as I understand, when it comes to frmeantle extras repo it returns some GPG error14:35
mgedminGPG error or GPG warning?14:36
mgedminwarnings are normal14:36
Stskeepsit's a warning not a error14:36
*** dottedmag has quit IRC14:36
igagis1no, It is an ERROR14:37
igagis1not warning14:37
Stskeepspastebin it14:37
igagis1just a minute14:37
*** netvandal has joined #maemo14:38
igagis1http://pastebin.org/4749214:40
igagis1it looks like warning (W:) but it says 'GPG error'14:40
mgedminit looks like a warning because it is a warning14:42
*** andre__ has joined #maemo14:42
*** ustunozgur has quit IRC14:42
mgedminit warns about the fact that gpg spewed an error14:42
mgedminit's not fatal to apt-get14:42
igagis1mgedmin: ok, let it be warning but I cannot install any packages from extras because of that14:42
* lcuk filed a bug o_O14:42
lcukhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=574114:42
mgedminI don't believe you, igagis114:42
mgedminspecifically, the "because of that" bit14:42
mgedminI believe that you cannot install any packages, and I believe that you see that apt warning about the gpg error14:43
mgedminbut there's no causal link between the two14:43
mgedminah, lcuk, you discovered that very nice feature14:44
igagis1mgedmin: see discussion here https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=4609&group_id=45&atid=241 for more info how I spotted the problem. Is certainly related to that warning that I cannot install needed packages14:44
mgedminI don't even remember what was on desktop 2 by default, but I don't miss it14:44
lcuklol14:44
lcuki remember because i only have enough widgets for one desktop14:44
*** ustunozgur has joined #maemo14:45
mgedminigagis1: you haven't demonstrated _why_ you cannot install needed packages yet14:45
mgedminplease pastebin the full command and the output14:45
*** ustunozgur has quit IRC14:45
mgedminhint: the command is not 'apt-get update', since apt-get update doesn't install any packages14:45
mgedminanyway, have you tried apt-get install (or apt-get build-dep) yet?14:46
*** RobertH[AU] has quit IRC14:46
igagis1mgedmin: to install packages I need to do apt-get update first to fetch info about available packages and their versions etc.14:46
mgedminyes? you did the apt-get update, now go install packages14:46
mgedminforget the gpg warnings14:46
igagis1mgedmin: of course I tried apt-get install14:47
*** ustunozgur has joined #maemo14:47
mgedminbtw I *am* irritated that nobody who maintains the repos has set up apt signing properly14:47
mgedminI wonder if there's a bug open about that14:47
igagis1mgedmin: I'm trying to install maemo-cplusplus-env package which is in extras-testing14:47
igagis1mgedmin: I can't install it because it says 'no such package' without apt-get update14:48
mgedminthat's because maemo-cplusplus-env is *not* in extras-testing14:48
mgedminit's in extras-devel14:49
*** wazd has quit IRC14:49
igagis1extras-devel I tried too14:49
*** tKMFDM has joined #maemo14:49
lcukJaffa, you noticed my post about transcoding, i wonder what the best way to quantify that properly would be14:49
mgedminwell, then, please pastebin the output from the following set of commands: cat /etc/apt/sources.list; fakeroot apt-get update; fakeroot apt-get install maemo-cplusplus-env14:50
mgedminbecause it Works For Me (TM)14:50
mgedminand I'm sorry, I don't know why I'm being abrupt and obnoxious today14:51
mgedmincould be hunger14:51
*** bergie has joined #maemo14:51
igagis1mgedmin: I'm not on my linux machine right now, I will pastebin today evening and ping you. By the way, in sources.list I haveextras-devel listed and it was working OK about month ago, then it got broken with this GPG error14:52
mgedminextras-devel has been breaking intermittently with a different error (something about hash missing in Release)14:52
Jaffalcuk: I'm going to add an 'hq' preset to table-encode which encodes at 800x480 for the N90014:53
mgedminthe GPG error is displayed *always*14:53
lcukJaffa, neato!14:53
igagis1mgedmin: ok, thank you14:54
*** t_s_o has quit IRC14:54
mgedminwhat's the right package to report bugs about the statusbar volume bar?14:54
*** sarower has quit IRC14:55
mgedminah, found it14:55
mgedminit's applications, not platform14:55
bigbrovar.14:55
nnodis anyone familiar with talking to gypsy over d-bus?14:58
*** tekojo has quit IRC15:00
*** penguinbait has quit IRC15:01
*** shdb has quit IRC15:01
*** shdb has joined #maemo15:01
mgedminI hate how iwconfig only shows frequency but doesn't show channel15:03
*** panaggio has joined #maemo15:03
*** falmeida has joined #maemo15:04
*** KMFDM has quit IRC15:05
*** chenca has joined #maemo15:09
*** lopz has joined #maemo15:10
*** murrayc has quit IRC15:10
lopzhey ;)15:11
lcukarghhhh 27 minutes to index 1 video + 4 albums15:12
*** ptlo has quit IRC15:17
hrwGuySoft: which 1TB HDD would you suggest for movies/backups storage (will reside in usb2/esata enclosure)15:19
*** panaggio has quit IRC15:23
*** briglia has joined #maemo15:23
*** michele_ has joined #maemo15:24
*** netvandal has quit IRC15:24
*** ArSa__ has joined #maemo15:26
*** ArSa has quit IRC15:27
*** mikhas has joined #maemo15:28
*** AndrewFBlack has joined #Maemo15:29
*** Wikier has quit IRC15:34
*** Cwiiis has joined #maemo15:36
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC15:37
*** monkeyiq has joined #maemo15:38
*** murrayc has joined #maemo15:40
*** promulo has quit IRC15:40
*** krau has quit IRC15:43
*** alecrim has joined #maemo15:43
*** eton_ has joined #maemo15:44
*** darktears has quit IRC15:46
SpeedEvilhrw: It's almost irrelevant15:46
SpeedEvilhrw: no hard drive is reliable enough to be sole storage. Also enclosure is important.15:47
SpeedEvilCheap ones with bad PSUs can kill HDs15:47
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo15:47
ccookeSpeedEvil: that depends on the class of data you have, really (whether it's reliable enough for single storage)15:49
*** eton has quit IRC15:49
SpeedEvilSure.15:49
SpeedEvilI wish google would release real data15:50
SpeedEvil0(on hard drive statistics per model)15:51
*** penguinbait has joined #maemo15:52
tigertthey have some no doubt ..15:52
tigertbut that probably depends on the environment a lot as well15:53
*** baraujo has quit IRC15:53
*** baraujo has joined #maemo15:53
*** jofjdi has quit IRC15:58
*** panaggio has joined #maemo15:59
*** avs has quit IRC15:59
*** tonikitoo has joined #maemo16:00
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo16:01
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo16:04
*** SjB has joined #maemo16:05
*** _marcell_ has quit IRC16:06
*** murrayc has quit IRC16:10
jeremiahGoogle won't tell you - it is a competitive advantage to know which disks / enclosures are the best16:10
*** jofjdi has joined #maemo16:10
*** cotigao has quit IRC16:11
mgedmindoes google even use enclosures?16:12
*** SjB has quit IRC16:12
*** DarwinSurvivor has quit IRC16:12
mgedminthey use shipping containers full of custom-designed racks full of computer guts, with no boxes, for better ventilation16:13
lcukpigeon holes16:13
*** fiferboy has joined #maemo16:14
fiferboyMorning all16:15
mgedminhai16:15
pupnik_qw tab.. :(16:16
pupnik_Fri Oct 23 15:16:46 CEST 200916:16
*** michele_ has quit IRC16:16
FlandryMornin'16:17
*** radic has quit IRC16:17
*** radic has joined #maemo16:18
Flandrylcux, i had deleted the dependencies portion of the control file while messing around with it last night16:18
Flandrylcuk sorry16:18
*** hardaker has joined #maemo16:18
*** Sho_ has quit IRC16:18
Flandrybuilds fine this morning :D16:18
*** GeroNimO_ has joined #maemo16:19
*** borism has quit IRC16:19
Flandryso yeah i had done something dumb16:19
Flandryanyway, moving on...16:19
mgedminhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5746  <-- is /home/apt-archives a good location for symlinking /var/cache/apt/archives ?16:19
*** kr1shnak has joined #maemo16:20
*** ptlo has joined #maemo16:20
GeroNimO_hey, need help compiling 0.17 for n8x016:20
GeroNimO_any pointers?16:20
mgedminwhat's 0.17?  enlightenment?16:20
GeroNimO_mer 0.1716:20
mgedminoh16:20
jeremiahmgedmin: I suppose, but why?16:20
GeroNimO_mer rules16:20
jeremiahGeroNimO_: Have you checked out #mer?16:20
mgedminjeremiah: why what? why symlink?  did you read the bug?  you can't apt-get install openarena otherwise16:21
GeroNimO_sry thanx16:21
Flandryhey jeremiah, thanks for the help16:21
jeremiahGeroNimO_: No problem, you can ask here too!16:21
jeremiahGeroNimO_: A lot of the same people are in both. :)16:21
jeremiahFlandry: Sure thing! :)16:21
jeremiahmgedmin: Nope, I didn't read it. Bad me.16:21
* jeremiah reads bugzilla16:21
GeroNimO_thank you jeremiah16:22
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: ping?16:22
jeremiahAh, this is why you are symlinking? "apt aborts saying that there's not enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives"16:22
FlandryI'm rather confused by the targets part of the sdk. I understand that there are x86 and arm processors to compile for, but not really what i do to check the armel target for thigs16:23
lcukFlandry, grrrr16:23
*** Anunakin has quit IRC16:23
jeremiahlcuk: Down boy down!16:23
lcuklol16:23
*** lbt_ has joined #maemo16:23
Flandryhaha16:23
* lcuk waits for 1gb of media to come off device 16:23
mgedminwhat do you mean by "check", Flandry?16:23
Flandryso now that i have i386 package built, what's the next step before i upload16:24
lcukgive jeremiah a sacrifice16:24
Flandryoh?16:24
Flandryvirgin bits?16:24
mgedminsb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL # or whatever the default target name is16:25
mgedminand recompile for armel16:25
* mgedmin uses inz's naming scheme: fremantle-armel16:25
lcukFlandry, not sure but i think jeremiah is a virgin :D16:25
Flandrymaybe some kind of recursive sacrifice then16:26
lcukthat would make sense, as marius suggests16:26
lcukcheck it works on armel16:26
lcukcos the code might have specific ties to x8616:26
Jaffamgedmin: Comments added onn #574616:27
mgedmininfobot, please acquire the ability to convert bug numbers into clickable URLs!16:27
*** vivainio has quit IRC16:28
lcuk+116:28
fiferboylcuk: Tried personal-photo-frame?16:28
lcukif i insert a 16gb card into microsd, can i do the boot from SD trick on n900?16:29
lcukno fiferboy im about half hour from setting off to london16:29
fiferboylcuk: Ah.16:29
lcukive got wires and bags and clothes and toothbrushes aroun16:29
fiferboySounds hectic.  How far are you from London?16:29
lcukjust a couple of hours16:29
fiferboy(I assume you don't mean London, Ontario, Canada)16:29
lcukbut i have to take everything still16:30
fiferboyI'm a couple of hours from London too! (but a different one)16:30
fiferboyWe also have a Paris nearby16:30
lcukthats hot!16:30
SpeedEvilhave you come across any open datasources for k-space datasets? Ideally with real images too.16:30
SpeedEviloops16:30
Flandrywow i had to kill a whole lot of rogue processes before it would consider scratchbox dead16:31
*** shdb has quit IRC16:31
*** Anunakin has joined #maemo16:31
timeless_mbpJaffa / lcuk : ping16:31
lcuk:O i just realised with what i said about boot from sd16:31
*** shdb has joined #maemo16:31
lcukwont it by default mix up the opt folder between the 2 systems16:31
*** qwerty12 has joined #maemo16:31
lcukhey timeless16:31
*** alehorst has quit IRC16:31
timeless_mbpdo you guys have >7 bookmarks and 2 mins?16:31
* nomis has, but no n900. Does that help?16:32
lcukgfi quickly, not many more than 716:32
*** andre__ has quit IRC16:32
*** alehorst has joined #maemo16:32
timeless_mbpsteps:16:32
timeless_mbp1. go to the desktop16:32
timeless_mbp2. tap the top left corner16:32
timeless_mbp3. if you reach the task switcher, close all browser windows, and then tap the top left corner to reach the task launcher16:33
timeless_mbp4. tap the globe (Web, Browser, whatever it's called in your translation)16:33
timeless_mbp5. watch the right edge of your screen, you should see a gray bar fade away16:33
wjtindeed.16:33
timeless_mbp6. tap a bookmark (preferably for a page that loads quickly)16:33
timeless_mbp7. if you haven't turned off the option for "open pages in full screen", tap the bottom right corner of the window to show the toolbar16:34
timeless_mbp8. tap the left most (bookmarks) button on the toolbar16:34
timeless_mbp9. watch the right edge of your screen, you should see a gray bar fade away16:34
Flandrywhy would a library be available in the i386 target but not armel?16:35
timeless_mbp10. tap the top right corner of your screen (this should take you back to your web browser)16:35
wjthmm. the gray bar fades away ridiculous fast in step 516:35
timeless_mbp11. tap the left most (bookmarks) button on the toolbar16:35
timeless_mbp12. watch the right edge of your screen, you should see a gray bar fade away16:36
timeless_mbp13. tap the top right corner of your screen (this should take you back to your web browser)16:36
SpeedEvilcombo breaker!16:36
timeless_mbp14. tap the top right corner of your screen (this should close the web browser)16:36
nnoddoes anyone know where the implicitly saved notes file is on the n900?16:36
timeless_mbp15. close the bookmarks (Web) view16:36
timeless_mbpnnod: foo (autosaved).ext16:37
timeless_mbpor so...16:37
*** AchipA has joined #maemo16:37
timeless_mbp16.  if you reach the task switcher, tap the top left corner to reach the task launcher16:37
timeless_mbp17. tap the globe (Web, Browser, whatever it's called in your translation)16:37
timeless_mbp18. watch the right edge of your screen, you should see a gray bar fade away16:37
wjtyeah, looks like the bookmark view doesn't realise it's being loaded afresh16:38
*** ustunozgur has quit IRC16:38
timeless_mbp19. tap the top right corner of your screen (this should close Bookmarks "Web")16:38
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s16:38
timeless_mbp20. if you reach the task switcher, tap the top left corner to reach the task launcher16:38
timeless_mbp21. tap the globe (Web, Browser, whatever it's called in your translation)16:38
*** millenomi has quit IRC16:38
*** sjgadsby has joined #maemo16:38
timeless_mbp22. CAN YOU watch the right edge of your screen, you should see a gray bar fade away??16:38
timeless_mbp-- END OF STEPS --16:39
*** k-s has quit IRC16:39
w00tthat was a lot of steps.16:39
wjtyour point is that the scrollbar doesn't reliably show in the bookmarks view?16:39
timeless_mbpwjt: roughly16:39
lcukit shows when clicking bookmarks button from within browser16:39
mgedminah, that's what the gray bar is!16:39
lcukbut when opening new browser instance it isnt there mostly16:39
timeless_mbpmgedmin: it's a random line that cuts into the content area16:39
*** ustunozgur has joined #maemo16:40
timeless_mbpit really serves no purposes, other than to confuse users16:40
timeless_mbpat this task, it is incredibly effective16:40
*** ustunozgur has quit IRC16:40
timeless_mbpanywa16:40
timeless_mbpcan someone please confirm my steps to reproduce?16:40
timeless_mbpnamely, please explain at what point my steps stop making sense16:40
*** k-s has joined #maemo16:40
wjtIf it was reliable, it's a useful indicator that there's more content you can scroll to16:40
timeless_mbpwjt: you're asking for reliability...16:41
timeless_mbpfrom our (Nokia) UI team16:41
* wjt can't find a pattern to whether the scrollbar shows up or not in the bookmarks view16:41
lcukreproduce, i barely saw a bar anytimes i opened it via the globe16:41
mgedminI like the fading-out-scrollbar16:41
lcuki saw a bar for a second or so when i clicked bookmarks from within the browser tho16:41
timeless_mbplcuk: but at 22 you don't see it at all, correct?16:41
mgedminI like it a lot16:41
*** k-s has quit IRC16:41
lcuki didnt see it for most of them..16:41
lcukit was too quick16:42
lcukmgedmin, it shouldnt fade according to me16:42
*** rsalveti has quit IRC16:42
lcukit should be transparent and show space all the time16:42
mgedminarguable16:42
mgedminif the background was empty behind it all the time, then yes16:42
lcukno point in having to click to work out where you are16:42
mgedminbut if you're looking at something where it overlaps say some image on a web page, then no16:42
lcukno need for empty16:42
mgedminspeaking of images16:43
lcuktransparency16:43
mgedminmicrob bug! clicking on an image resizes it16:43
timeless_mbpmgedmin: um16:43
*** k-s has joined #maemo16:43
lcuki have to vanish16:43
lcukcyas later \o16:43
timeless_mbpit's an opaque scrollbar everywhere outside the browser16:43
timeless_mbpit crops random text :)16:44
timeless_mbp(even when it's "hidden")16:44
Flandryaugh16:44
timeless_mbpmgedmin: so um, can you please verify my steps?16:44
mgedmingaah I want kinetic scrolling on my laptop now16:44
Flandrydo i need to add repositories in FREMANTLE_ARMEL16:44
timeless_mbpi need someone running the build you guys are using16:45
* timeless_mbp pokes mgedmin / lcuk / someone16:45
mgedmintimeless_mbp: 5 minutes please16:45
timeless_mbpplease confirm?16:45
* timeless_mbp is in a rush16:45
GuySofthrw, why did you ask me about TB drives ??16:45
GuySofti am not really the expert on that16:46
Flandryhow does that work. Do the scratchbox targets have independent repositories?16:46
wjttimeless_mbp: the scrollbar stopped showing midway through, and now never shows16:47
timeless_mbpwjt: hrm16:47
timeless_mbpreally?16:47
* mgedmin wishes timeless_mbp had used a pastebin16:47
timeless_mbpmgedmin: hold16:47
timeless_mbphttp://pastebin.mozilla.org/67850816:48
wjttimeless_mbp: yes, really16:48
*** ustunozgur has joined #maemo16:48
timeless_mbpwjt: odd16:48
timeless_mbpfor me, i really see it each time until 2216:48
* timeless_mbp wonders if someone "improved" something between 39 and 4116:48
mgedmintimeless_mbp: in step 18 the grey bar did not show up16:49
mgedminin step 22 it did not show up either16:49
mgedminnote that in step 16 I did not reach the task switcher, I reached my desktop16:49
mgedminsince web was the only app running16:50
* timeless_mbp nods16:50
timeless_mbpi could have preconditions "no running applications"16:50
timeless_mbpi don't like doing that :)16:50
*** gaspa has left #maemo16:50
timeless_mbpoh wait16:51
timeless_mbpi'm an idiot16:51
timeless_mbpyeah, ok, the fact that it doesn't appear in 18 is acceptable buggy results16:51
mgedminheh, now I can't retrace my steps from 1 since the bar never shows up16:52
timeless_mbppkill browser16:53
*** promulo has joined #maemo16:53
*** user007 has joined #maemo16:53
hrwGuySoft: sorry, my irc client expanded "guys:" to your nick16:54
AchipAheh, I'd be happy if the darn images just matched up with the urls :)16:54
ShadowJKooh, fremantle has pkill? :)16:54
GuySofthrw, oh ok :)16:54
ShadowJKAfter using solaris I got used to typing pkill..16:54
*** mihu has left #maemo16:54
*** krau|away has joined #maemo16:55
sjgadsbytimeless_mbp: So, should I ever see warnings that XPCOMUtils is running slowly? http://www.flickr.com/photos/sjgadsby/4036104280/ I'm guessing stopping it would be bad.16:55
timeless_mbpit does, oddly16:55
timeless_mbpsjgadsby: i see it if i do this:16:55
timeless_mbpjavascript:confirm(1);16:55
timeless_mbpwalk away from device for 10 mins16:56
sjgadsbyHeh.16:56
timeless_mbpi haven't spent time figuring out why it's running slowly, what it's doing, why it's running at all, etc16:56
timeless_mbpit's fun, i get iirc 3 slow script dialogs16:56
*** jofjdi has quit IRC16:56
timeless_mbpone from that, one from something which i think must be some database16:57
* timeless_mbp chuckles16:57
timeless_mbpone of my devices just committed suicide16:57
timeless_mbpit claims it ran out of battery16:57
timeless_mbpsad thing... it's plugged into a charge16:57
timeless_mbpr16:57
*** krau|away is now known as krau16:57
timeless_mbpand now it turned on to start charging :)16:57
*** millenomi has joined #maemo16:58
*** IcanCU has joined #maemo16:59
timeless_mbpwjt / mgedmin: 575016:59
timeless_mbpthanks for playing16:59
*** IcanCU has left #maemo16:59
FlandryFor end-user application packages, is the package uploaded supposed to be compiled or not?17:01
timeless_mbpin general, we request that you upload sources to the autobuilder17:01
* mgedmin files https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=575117:01
timeless_mbpand let it build the binaries for you17:01
Flandryok17:01
* timeless_mbp chuckles17:01
timeless_mbpmgedmin: yeah um,...17:02
timeless_mbpsadly, it's a feature17:02
timeless_mbpbut we should consider changing how it works17:02
* timeless_mbp ponders17:02
mgedminit works okay *on desktops*17:02
Flandryso changing the target in SDK is for the purpose of testing that the build works only17:02
timeless_mbpi'm not sure if we have any way of detecting "double tap"17:02
timeless_mbpwe might be able to do that17:02
mgedmincan you just disable image resizing and keep using the generic whole-page-zoom mechanism?17:03
*** bergie has quit IRC17:03
*** jofjdi has joined #maemo17:03
mgedminthe browser already handles double taps for resizing to make paragraphs fit nicely17:03
* timeless_mbp ponders17:03
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, my N810 know also knows that trick (re suicide) :-)17:03
*** bergie has joined #maemo17:03
mgedmindownside: zoom out seems to be somewhat limited17:03
timeless_mbpdata:text/html,<img src="http://www.geekstir.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/evophones2.jpg">17:03
ShadowJKdoes N900 have a RD mode type thing like on N810?17:04
timeless_mbptry that17:04
timeless_mbpcan it zoom usefully?17:04
timeless_mbpiirc it failed because it wouldn't let you zoom out enough17:04
timeless_mbpShadowJK: yep17:04
mgedminoooh, neat hack!17:04
timeless_mbpexactly like17:04
mgedmincan I please have clipboard sharing over wifi17:04
timeless_mbp"there's an app for that"17:04
ShadowJKheh17:04
mgedminI'm not going to enjoy typing that data: url17:04
timeless_mbpmgedmin: don't bother17:04
JaffaShadowJK: Yes17:05
timeless_mbpjust: data:text/html,<img src="17:05
timeless_mbpor use a pastebin17:05
*** Andril has quit IRC17:05
timeless_mbpthe url is just a wrapper around the url you gave me17:05
mgedminbut yeah, timeless, if I single-tap to get the image displayed at 100%, and then spiral-scroll to zoom out, it doesn't let me zoom out enough17:05
timeless_mbpso i presume you have it17:05
JaffaShadowJK: And there's `rootsh' in Extras for if you just want a root prompt17:05
mgedminand I was once prevented from zooming out enough when I was looking at a regular web page17:05
* timeless_mbp nods17:05
mgedminmaybe I should file a bug about that17:05
timeless_mbpyay for UI designers17:05
mgedminpastebin, what an original idea!17:06
* mgedmin feels stoopid for not thinking of that17:06
*** michele_ has joined #maemo17:06
ShadowJKhal-addon-bme has this ability to hang on my N810. When it does that it gets stuck showing whatever battery state was when it hung. Eventually bme shuts down on low battery17:06
*** murrayc has joined #maemo17:07
Flandryi'm updating the SDK developer guide wiki. Does this sound right:17:07
FlandryThe system displays some output, including some warnings about XB-Maemo-Icon-26, but that is normal. The parent directory now contains a my-application_1.0.0-0_i386.deb file - the Debian package. This file can be used to test the application on the SDK. When the source package is uploaded to the autobuilder, an Arm architecture-compatible .deb file will be built to distribute to Maemo devices and installed using the Application Manage17:07
Flandry can switch to the FREMANTLE_ARMEL target in scratchbox to test the build yourself and ensure that there is nothing PC-specific in it.17:07
* mgedmin plays with about:config and disables automatic image zooming17:08
timeless_mbpheh17:08
timeless_mbpmgedmin: do us a favor17:08
timeless_mbpadd a note explaining how to disable the feature17:08
timeless_mbpand provide a hint for how to avoid it17:08
timeless_mbp(you can make a bookmarklet which converts the url to a wrapped one)17:08
timeless_mbpand then resolve the bug as WFM or something17:08
timeless_mbpbecause you don't really want us to try to fix it17:08
timeless_mbpwe'll cause much more harm than good17:09
*** dolphin has joined #maemo17:09
timeless_mbp"The parent directory now contains " is awkward17:09
timeless_mbps/now contain/will have / or will now contain or ...17:10
timeless_mbp"test the application on the SDK"17:10
mgedminhuh17:10
timeless_mbps/ on / [in|with|using] /17:10
infobottimeless_mbp meant: "test the application [in|with|using] the SDK"17:10
suihkulokkiwhile at the browser, should firefox extensions (such as flashblock) work as is, or do they need to be modified somehow?17:11
timeless_mbp"will be built to distribute to Maemo devices and installed using the Application Manage"17:11
timeless_mbpis awkward...17:11
timeless_mbpfixing it requires me to do things i don't have time to do now17:11
timeless_mbpi have to run17:11
timeless_mbpi'll be back sunday or so17:11
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: typically they need slight modifications17:11
timeless_mbpiirc you need to add the microb app id17:11
timeless_mbpi thought someone ported flashblock17:11
suihkulokkito diablo17:12
mgedminnope, even with browser.enable_automatic_image_resizing set to false, a single tap shrinks the image17:12
mgedminthat setting affects only the initial state17:12
timeless_mbpoh17:12
timeless_mbpbabu was supposed to post instructions / slides17:12
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: you can poke him, right?17:12
timeless_mbpyou're the second person to ask in about a day17:12
suihkulokki:P17:12
*** kr1shnak__ has joined #maemo17:13
*** danilocesar has joined #maemo17:13
timeless_mbpsorry. back sunday ish17:13
suihkulokkiI can poke, the problem is I know babu by face, but it will take a moment to convert that to a email address17:13
*** adeus has joined #maemo17:14
suihkulokkigot it :)17:14
*** radic_ has joined #maemo17:14
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo17:15
*** vivijim has joined #maemo17:15
*** radic has quit IRC17:15
*** fab has quit IRC17:17
*** _jason553839 has joined #maemo17:19
FlandryI'm having trouble finding the same dependencies for the armel target that were available for the i386 target. Do i have to add the repositories in both targets?17:26
mgedminFlandry: yes!17:27
mgedminthey are completely separate chroots17:27
mgedminthey share only your home directory17:27
pupnik_karma to mgedmin17:27
mgedminpupnik_: it's spelled ~mgedmin++17:28
Flandryah, well that explains a lot XD17:28
mgedmin~karma17:28
infobotmgedmin has karma of 117:28
mgedminoooh, I'm rich!17:28
*** kr1shnak has quit IRC17:28
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo17:29
*** warp10 has joined #maemo17:30
*** z4chh has quit IRC17:31
*** sphenxes has quit IRC17:32
Flandrythere a good reason extras isn't enabled by default on the SDK? :P17:33
mgedminactually, no17:33
*** vivijim has quit IRC17:34
mgedminfile a bug please17:34
mgedminask for extras, extras-devel and extras-testing in the default apt sources.list17:34
mgedminmaybe commented out17:34
mgedminhm17:34
*** sphenxes has joined #maemo17:34
mgedmin5.0 final sdk is out, too late to fix it for that17:34
*** michele_ has quit IRC17:35
*** andrunko has quit IRC17:35
*** andrunko has joined #maemo17:35
Flandryoh exciting, my first bug report17:36
*** GeroNimO_ has quit IRC17:36
*** calvaris has quit IRC17:36
*** Xisdibik has quit IRC17:36
*** danielwilms has left #maemo17:37
Flandryoh crap, yet another login X/17:37
*** _jason553839 has quit IRC17:39
*** lmoura has joined #maemo17:42
*** mlpug has joined #maemo17:42
*** zap_ has quit IRC17:43
*** orbarron|OoO is now known as orbarron3317:44
*** orbarron33 is now known as orbarron17:45
*** etrunko has joined #maemo17:45
AchipAa n00b question... what am I supposed to look for to see what's the current 'display' status of my app in Fremantle - in front, shown in the task manager, or in the background ?17:46
*** alecrim has quit IRC17:46
AchipAI guess there is some DBUSing going on but gat quite find the right page for reference...17:47
AchipAs/gat/can't/17:47
infobotAchipA meant: I guess there is some DBUSing going on but can't quite find the right page for reference...17:47
JaffaAchipA: There's a 'top-most' property on your main window. Or you can look at focus events17:47
mgedminis it possible to distinguish "invisible" from "thumbnail shown in task switcher"?17:48
AchipAJaffa: thx17:48
Jaffamgedmin: Probably ;-)17:48
*** L0cutus_ has quit IRC17:48
mgedminI wouldn't be surprised if the answer was "no"17:48
AchipAif there isn't, it's a bit of a shame - a lot of juice could be saved that way17:49
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC17:49
*** mairas has quit IRC17:49
AchipAesp for folks who tend to keep the task manager view open (i.e. me :) )17:50
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo17:50
Ceron^yay for nokia failing :(17:50
Ceron^january for the n900...17:50
Ceron^jumped 3 months ;P17:50
AchipACeron^: source ?17:50
Ceron^tmo17:51
Stskeepstmo isnt a reliable source17:51
AchipAah, I though something maybe just a little bit more substantial :)17:51
n810debiancan mer be installed like debian chroot (easy debian)?17:51
Ceron^well its reality.. :P17:51
*** danilocesar has quit IRC17:52
*** alecrim has joined #maemo17:52
Stskeepsn810debian: easy mer exists17:52
b0unc3hi guys...17:52
*** vivijim has joined #maemo17:52
Flandryit's alive. ALIVE!17:52
* qwerty12 shoots it17:52
Flandryoh man17:52
Stskeepslo qwerty1217:52
n810debianStskeeps: does it install like debian chroot (easy debian)?17:52
qwerty12Hiya, Stskeeps :)17:52
b0unc3I'm  trying to setup latest sdk in order to comiple a desktop-widget , but when I try to install libhildondesktop, I get this error : http://pastebin.ca/164026317:53
Stskeepsn810debian: not my product, qoles17:53
Stskeepsb0unc3: remember nokia-binaries token17:53
n810debianwhats qoles website?17:53
AchipAn810debian: qole.org17:54
StskeepsCeron^: more exact source?17:54
*** konttori_ has joined #maemo17:55
*** radic_ has quit IRC17:55
*** L0cutus has joined #maemo17:55
Ceron^http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33303 :\?17:55
AchipA"local Tmobile store" ?17:56
*** vivijim has quit IRC17:57
*** vivijim1 has joined #maemo17:57
Stskeepsbrilliant source17:57
Ceron^http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE59M2RJ20091023 ok perhaps earlier but its better not wait at all17:57
Ceron^to*17:57
Stskeepsalso, ask tmobile and they will give you the date for subsidy17:57
*** fr01b has left #maemo17:57
*** fab has joined #maemo17:58
*** L0cutus has quit IRC17:59
*** pete_ has joined #maemo17:59
*** pete_ is now known as Guest9839417:59
*** matt_c has joined #maemo17:59
*** cjdavis_afk is now known as cjdavis_notafk17:59
Guest98394Hi, I am running the Maemo 5 Final SDK and I can't find the nokia apps lik emdia player and the web browser.  Do I need to add a repo other than nokia-binaries?18:00
mgedminGuest98394: you won't get them in the SDK18:00
mgedminclosed source sucks18:00
qwerty12Guest98394: web browser is installed by apt-get install nokia-apps nokia-binaries18:00
qwerty12You won't get the Media player, however18:01
*** shdb has quit IRC18:01
*** jrocha has quit IRC18:01
Guest98394great, thanks!18:01
*** warp10 has quit IRC18:01
*** shdb has joined #maemo18:01
*** L0cutus has joined #maemo18:01
Guest98394Can't wait to start porting all my linux apps to this box18:01
Guest98394Its exciting to have a natively-compiled linux platform on competent hardware with OpenGL ES 2.0 support18:02
Ceron^any news on USB hostmode/OTG18:03
ShadowJKhuh, wtf is up with my sirfstar18:03
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]18:03
ShadowJKit's sitting in the window, and reporting that it's moving at 100km/h18:03
mgedminthe Earth revolves!18:04
StskeepsShadowJK: it has been watching Up!18:04
mgedminmaybe some aliens grabbed the satellite with a tractor beam18:04
Ceron^ShadowJK: some aliens are moving our satelites :p18:04
*** TomaszD has joined #maemo18:04
Ceron^damn mgedmin was faster18:05
ShadowJKlooks like it diverged by 2km or so18:05
*** rick_ has quit IRC18:05
*** vivijim has joined #maemo18:05
*** vivijim has joined #maemo18:07
Guest98394qwerty12: fyi, the media player installed.  Won't play anything, but the app is there.18:07
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC18:07
qwerty12Ah, OK, I didn't realise. I have something a little more realistic than the environment included with the SDK ;018:07
qwerty12*;)18:08
mgedminmh, it's quite a change from olden times18:08
mgedminback then scratchbox had xterm and the app manager, no other apps18:08
mgedminI stopped bothering with xephyr about that time18:08
*** vivijim1 has quit IRC18:08
*** vivijim has quit IRC18:09
Flandrythe media player in SDK is FUBAR though18:09
*** vivijim has joined #maemo18:09
Flandryit crashes and refuses to close18:09
Guest98394yes! I have the same experience18:11
Guest98394mgedmin: what do you use in place of zephyr?18:12
mgedmina real n90018:12
Guest98394awesome, I want one18:12
mgedminwell, the appropriate real nxx0 actually18:12
Guest98394Mostly becuase testing OpenGL performance is impossible otherwise18:13
Ceron^Guest98394: what programs18:13
Ceron^do you want to portt?18:13
Guest98394I ported projectM to the iPhone and didn't release it becuase I hate developing on that platform.18:13
Guest98394So its OpenGL Es-ready to go18:13
Guest98394Should just need a recompile after I figure out how to open an OpenGL context on this thing.18:14
Guest98394OR if Qt works, the projectM-qt guis should work out of hte box18:14
Guest98394then its a matter of stealing audio data from somewhere18:14
*** EspadaV8_W has quit IRC18:15
*** cirzgamanti`` is now known as cirzgamanti18:15
Guest98394Also I wrote an WW2 opengl ES tower defense game for iPhone I also didn't release and will port to Maemo.  Thank god I wrote it in C++ and avaoided Obj-C like the plague18:15
*** EspadaV8_W has joined #maemo18:16
Guest98394actually, if maemo supports pulseaudio, projectM-pulseaudio-qt should just work. Whic hwould be amazing.18:17
mgedminmaemo is built on top of pulseaudio18:18
mgedminI don't think there are any alternative apis18:18
Guest98394How conveniently awesome18:18
* mgedmin <-- not the best source of information due to memory full of holes; better check docs18:18
mgedminalsa might probably work (with the pulseaudio backend); /dev/dsp definitely doesn't exist18:19
*** killfill has quit IRC18:20
*** alecrim has quit IRC18:20
*** jnettlet has quit IRC18:21
*** _jason553839 has joined #maemo18:21
*** user007 has left #maemo18:22
*** killfill has joined #maemo18:24
*** jdav_gone has joined #maemo18:30
Flandryuh oh18:30
Flandryany ideas what might cause this error in ARMEL target: obj/debug/src/libs/resource/stringbank.c.o: could not read symbols: File in wrong format18:30
Flandryi did a ./build.sh distclean but it didn't help18:31
RurouniJonesDoes the N900 support WiMAX?18:31
Flandryno18:31
RurouniJonesBugger, read that it did18:32
AchipARurouniJones: the only Maemo device that has WiMAX is the N810WE18:32
*** alecrim has joined #maemo18:32
Flandryit has 3G18:32
RurouniJonesFiddlesticks! FIDDLESTICKS!18:32
RurouniJonesOk, ta muchly.18:33
*** jofjdi has quit IRC18:33
penguinbaitoh fiddlesticks even18:34
*** AchipA has left #maemo18:34
*** ptlo has quit IRC18:36
*** rick_ has joined #maemo18:36
BBNSGuest98394: you could actually port OpenAL to maemo, with PulseAudio backend.18:37
*** rick_ has quit IRC18:37
*** n6pfk has joined #maemo18:38
BBNSGuest98394: in that way. it will give you 3d position sound.18:38
Guest98394BBNS: Interesting, but might I am trying to "listen" to the music being played from the media player, not actually play any sound18:38
Guest98394ignore that first "might" please18:38
BBNSHowever, i have problem with playing mp3 on OpenAL with ALUT. Perhaps some people in this channel to solve the problem.18:39
BBNSi see. i though you are writing games.18:39
BBNSand need a FMOD replacement.18:39
BBNSnevertheless, the most straightforward approach is to write a mini playback on gstreamer using playbin2.18:40
BBNShere is an example: http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/html/chapter-components.html18:41
BBNSso that you have minimum latency.18:42
BBNS=] i had wrote a game on iPhone too. but EA threaten to sue us to violate their IP.18:43
BBNSthat's why i stop writing apps on iPhone. not much freedom. you are caged.18:43
mgedminFlandry: can you run file obj/debug/src/libs/resource/stringbank.c.o and see what it says?18:44
SpeedEvilErr - EA can sue you whatever platform you use18:44
SpeedEvilOr indeed if you just write stuff on paper.18:45
FlandryI cleaned it and rebuilt without using the external library and it worked18:46
*** aakashd has joined #maemo18:46
Flandryi suspect that it was using some residual from the library i built on the x86 target18:46
Flandryif that's possible18:46
Flandryhow would i remove that18:46
mgedminfind -name '*.o' -exec rm {} +18:47
mgedminor whatever's the usual way you use to clean up build artifacts18:47
mgedminmake distclean etc.18:47
mgedminor cd ..; mv sourcetree sourcetree.dirty; dpkg -x sourcepackage.dsc; cd sourcetree18:48
Flandrywell, i deleted the whole tree where i built the library18:48
*** jnettlet has joined #maemo18:48
Flandryi was thinking maybe it installed somewhere that is visible in ARMEL18:48
Flandrybut i don't know if that's possible18:48
mgedmindid you run 'make install'?18:48
Flandryyeah18:49
mgedminof course it's possible, but I'm pretty sure different targets have different /usr trees and those aren't shared18:49
mgedminor shouldn't be18:49
Flandryi'm flailing my arms in the shark infested water as you can tell18:49
*** filip42 has quit IRC18:49
mgedmin:)18:49
mgedminscratchbox is a mess18:49
mgedminyou find one rut and things tend to work while you stay in it18:49
Flandryi'll go back and build it with the external dependency and see what file tells you18:50
Flandrymaybe that will help18:50
*** vivijim1 has joined #maemo18:51
*** AndrewFBlack has quit IRC18:51
mgedminI though you'd already solved your problem?18:51
*** z4chh has joined #maemo18:52
*** vivijim has quit IRC18:52
Flandryit will compile and link using the internal lib, but not the external18:52
mgedminexternal one being?18:52
Flandryso while technically i did, i'd like to figure out what's wrong18:52
Flandrylibmikmod18:52
mgedminwhere did you get the external lib and how did you install it?18:52
Flandryinternal or external18:52
Flandryi built it18:53
Flandrymade a deb18:53
Flandryand then installed the deb18:53
mgedminthat should've worked fine18:53
Flandrybut before that i build it from source using make etc. in x86 target18:53
Flandryso that's why i was wondering if i messed samething up18:54
mgedminwhat could go wrong: (x86) make (armel) make install -> presto, you've got x86 object files in your /usr/local/lib18:54
mgedminand /usr/local/lib tends to override libraries from .deb packages, which live in /usr/lib18:54
*** eichi has joined #maemo18:54
*** _jason553839 has quit IRC18:54
mgedminI once broke my ubuntu system by building an ancient cairo and installing it into /usr/local18:54
Flandrythat's what i was thinking18:55
Flandrybut don't know my way around the linux filesystem18:55
Flandryso how do i uninstall it in x8618:55
mgedminrm /usr/local/lib/* probably18:55
*** vivijim1 has quit IRC18:55
mgedminI'd do a ls -lR /usr/local18:55
mgedminsee what's there18:56
mgedminlet me try that in my pristine scratchbox18:56
mgedminyep, empty directories and one symlink18:56
*** killfill has quit IRC18:56
mgedminlike with any linux system the best practice is to never ever run 'make install'18:56
mgedminbuild debs, install debs18:56
*** geaaru has quit IRC18:56
Flandryso i'm learning18:57
Flandryhmm18:57
mgedminI'm sometimes amazed people manage to build anything for maemo, given all the obstacles and complications :-)18:57
*** killfill has joined #maemo18:58
*** jofjdi has joined #maemo18:58
Flandryit's magically working now18:58
Flandrylolol18:58
BBNSFlandry: sometimes the makefile would come with "make uninstall" if you are lucky.18:58
ifreqwhile building you can define where it install yoyr shito, so cant see it so hard.18:58
*** guysoft42 has joined #maemo18:58
BBNSFlandry: but not many developers would add that script in Makefile.18:58
Flandryyeah, it did but i deleted it all18:59
Flandryha funny18:59
Flandryok on to the next obstacle18:59
mgedminI wonder if automake adds a 'make uninstall' by default18:59
*** trofi has joined #maemo18:59
*** vivijim has joined #maemo19:00
Flandrywhat does the autobuilder run?19:00
Flandrymake & make install?19:00
*** Xisdibik has joined #maemo19:00
mgedmindpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot19:00
mgedminwhich runs debian/rules with various arguments19:00
Flandryoh19:00
Flandryi forgot about rules19:01
mgedminwhich in turn usually runs things like ./configure --prefix=/usr, make, and make install DESTDIR=somesubdir19:01
mgedminokbye19:01
*** mgedmin has quit IRC19:01
Flandryso if i have an app that has an interactive ./build.sh config, what's the best practice19:01
Flandryyou taking off?19:02
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, pong?19:02
*** vivijim has quit IRC19:02
*** vivijim1 has joined #maemo19:02
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Just wondering if your N900 was a smoldering pile of ashes yet...19:02
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, haven't gotten around to any testing.19:03
GeneralAntillesGetting ready for FLS19:03
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: That's okay, but you missed out on a nice infinite loop :)19:03
BBNSFlandry: i think you can replace the line "./configure something something" with "./build.sh config".19:03
BBNSFlandry: rules is just a script that execute commands line by line.19:03
Flandryit's interactive though :/19:03
BBNSFlandry: oh ... crap ...19:03
Flandryi'll have to change it19:03
JaffaFlandry: pipe into its stdin?19:04
Flandryjust trying to make the least changes to the source19:04
Flandrygood idea19:04
Flandrymy shellese is so rusty19:04
lbt_Jaffa: xmltv timezone this weekend...19:05
Jaffalbt_: yup19:05
lbt_mrs lbt is already planning for the sunday morning panic19:05
Jaffaheh19:05
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo19:06
*** zerojayN900 has joined #maemo19:07
*** Phaeodaria has quit IRC19:07
*** n6pfk has quit IRC19:08
zerojayN900looks like i'm about to see how good/bad ovi maps on n900 is.19:08
zerojayN900heading to halifax tonight, never been before.19:09
fralsbest of luck19:09
zerojayN900yeah, lol19:10
zerojayN900should be... interesting.19:10
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC19:10
SpeedEvil'Today in a GPS accident, while staring at a phone, zerojay drove into the sea'19:10
zerojayN900lol19:11
w00thaha.19:11
zerojayN900no car ;)19:11
qwerty12Wow, you're walking? ;)19:11
zerojayN900airplane -> public transportation.19:11
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo19:11
zerojayN900hah19:11
qwerty12Heh19:11
zerojayN900my company wishes19:12
SpeedEvilI want to make a hoverboard, which is > airplane.19:12
SpeedEvilBut - alas legal and financial issues.19:12
* qwerty12 remembers the lovely car journey to Halifax, UK...19:12
fiferboyqwerty12: You guys ripped off Halifax from us too?19:12
fiferboyFirst London, now this!19:12
*** trickie has quit IRC19:12
zerojayN900lol19:12
fiferboyAt least we still have the original Paris...19:13
qwerty12fiferboy: You wish :p19:13
zerojayN900no one wants toronto, lol19:13
fiferboy:)19:13
fiferboyToronto was York before, though...19:13
zerojayN900and now, taranna.19:14
qwerty12Another Canadian invention19:14
qwerty12Oh, wait! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York19:14
*** hrw is now known as hrw|gone19:16
jeremiahThey stole it from New York.19:16
jeremiahThey couldn't well call it New New York.19:17
fiferboyjeremiah: You mean New Amsterdam?19:17
jeremiah:)19:17
*** vivijim1 has quit IRC19:17
zerojayN900testicles.19:17
*** vivijim has joined #maemo19:17
zerojayN900that is all.19:17
jeremiahBy that, do you mean Bollocks?19:17
qwerty12zerojayN900: Listing what you will miss as you go into Halifax? ;P19:17
zerojayN900new bollocks19:17
zerojayN900lol19:18
zerojayN900bastard.19:18
fiferboyAll I know is, I've got a date in Constantinople19:18
Proteousno it's istanbul19:18
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo19:19
*** millenomi has quit IRC19:19
Proteousnow constanEvery gal in Constantinople19:19
Proteouslives in Istanbul, not constantinople19:19
Proteousso if you've a date in Constantinople19:19
ProteousShe'll be waiting in Istanbul19:20
ProteousIstanbul was Constantinople19:20
ProteousNow it's Istanbul, not Constantinople19:20
ProteousBeen a long time goine, Constantinople19:20
ProteousNow it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night19:20
fiferboyFor anyone wondering -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_(Not_Constantinople)19:21
*** zap_ has joined #maemo19:21
Proteousheh19:21
ProteousConstantinople is hard to type repeatedly19:21
SpeedEvilInconstantinople.19:22
b0unc3Stskeeps : now works, thank you19:22
*** danilocesar has joined #maemo19:26
*** Moabird has joined #maemo19:26
*** millenomi has joined #maemo19:28
*** Moabird has quit IRC19:28
*** Moabird has joined #maemo19:29
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo19:29
*** lbt_ has quit IRC19:29
*** shdb has quit IRC19:31
FlandryThey Might be Giants19:31
Flandryor maybe just loonies19:31
*** shdb has joined #maemo19:31
*** briglia has quit IRC19:31
Flandrywhat's the difference between the .tar.gz source in the root directory of a deb and the contents of the package directory?19:32
*** pcfe has quit IRC19:36
jeremiahFlandry: Does the tarball end with 'orig.tar.gz'?19:36
*** brbrbr has joined #maemo19:36
Flandryyeah19:36
*** hardaker has quit IRC19:37
*** sphenxes has quit IRC19:37
Flandryit requires i specify one when i try to debianize an app19:37
* GeneralAntilles wishes his old school maemo shirt weren't so oversized, _timeless_mbp_. :P19:37
jeremiahFlandry: Yeah, you have to have that since a deb requires pristine source code19:37
jeremiahThe orig.tar.gz is the original source19:38
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Seen qgil's comment about Extras shipping disabled again?19:38
jeremiahThe diff.tar.gz are your debianized changes.19:38
* Jaffa wonders what the point of bothering with the QA process is.19:38
Flandryso the original soource goes there and the hacked up version actually intended to be built is what does in the directory with ./debian19:38
jeremiahJaffa: Well, the whole process is a bit ambitious and will work well one day.19:38
Flandrygoes*19:39
jeremiahJaffa: I think we have to be a bit patient with the code.19:39
Jaffajeremiah: Maybe. Oh, I'm sure the UI on maemo.org/packages/, the automated checks from minimae and maemian and the whole workflow will gegt easier.19:39
jeremiahFlandry: Yeah, you have your orig tarball. Then you put your debian dir inside of that.19:39
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I saw an earlier one, is there a new one?19:39
Flandryand the package builder makes a diff between the orig code and what's in the directory19:39
Jaffajeremiah: However, I'm not sure Nokia will ever ship Extras enabled now19:39
jeremiahJaffa: Ah! I see, I misunderstoon. :)19:40
* GeneralAntilles feels cheated.19:40
jeremiahmisunderstoon?19:40
GeneralAntilles"See how we can waste your time, losers?"19:40
JaffaGeneralAntilles: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3279#c819:40
*** pcfe has joined #maemo19:40
jeremiahIf they don't ship with Extras, they are cutting off the communities legs.19:40
Jaffajeremiah: Better than being misunderspoon19:40
Jaffajeremiah: It'll ship configured, but disabled.19:40
jeremiahHi! I'm Miss Under Spoon!19:40
FlandryBetter than underhill too eh19:41
*** jeremiah is now known as under_spoon19:41
* under_spoon admires his shiny nick.19:41
Jaffajeremiah: So user has to go: tap > More > Application manager > Secondary-actions menu > Application Catalogues > "Maemo Extras"[sic] > untick "Disabled" > Save  and *then* the big-friendly "Download" button19:41
under_spoonFAIL19:41
under_spoonNokia acts like we have leprosy or something.19:42
GeneralAntillesWell, Maemo Select should be on the desktop, right?19:42
GeneralAntillesA nice big pretty link like that is going to lead to a lot of clicking.19:42
*** under_spoon is now known as jeremiah19:42
GeneralAntillesWhich leads to them enabling Extras19:42
JaffaGeneralAntilles: True19:42
GeneralAntilles(Unless Nokia plans on mirroring all of the Maemo Select packages elsewhere, which I wouldn't put past them.)19:43
jeremiahFlandry: Yes - exactly. The diff is the difference between the debianized tarball and the orig.19:43
GeneralAntillesWhich makes disabling it by default all the more idiotic.19:43
*** dottedmag has joined #maemo19:43
jeremiahI think there is a tool called debdiff you can use to peer into that.19:43
* jeremiah looks19:43
Flandrythis is all making a lot more sense19:43
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s19:43
*** Meizirkki_ has joined #maemo19:44
Flandryall the apt-get source does is get the diff and orig and then apply the diff to the untarred content19:44
jeremiahFlandry: Ah cool.19:44
* GeneralAntilles depersonalizes his N800.19:44
jeremiahFlandry: Yup, you get it. :)19:44
jeremiahIt is pretty minimal actually, using a toolset nearly any linuxish computer should have.19:45
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: Taking the Barbie stickers off it?19:45
Flandrylol19:45
jeremiahWhy would you take the Barbie stickers off?19:45
jeremiahThey are the best part.19:45
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, booting back to the internal flash and removing Modest settings and whatnot. ;)19:45
jeremiahMalibu barbie FTW!19:45
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: Now, see, if you had not used Modest, you wouldn't have to remove its settings and you may still have some of your sanity intact...19:46
* GeneralAntilles doesn't want creepers at FLS going through his mail.19:46
qwerty12+had19:46
qwerty12Take the N900...19:47
*** aakashd has quit IRC19:48
GeneralAntillesNobody at FLS is touching my N900. :P19:49
GeneralAntillesLast thing I need is a bunch of Linux people blogging about Nokia demoing a prototype at FLS.19:49
MoabirdHow is the n900 by the way?19:49
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I think the easy answer to that question is "lawyers are nasty people".19:50
*** aakashd has joined #maemo19:51
*** wazd has joined #maemo19:51
wazd'lo maemo19:51
*** zerojayN900 has quit IRC19:51
jeremiah'lo wazd19:52
*** falmeida has quit IRC19:53
*** n6pfk has joined #maemo19:53
*** falmeida has joined #maemo19:53
*** trbs has quit IRC19:54
*** sphenxes has joined #maemo19:54
GeneralAntillesJaffa, good or a bad idea to wear my old maemo t-shirt to FLS? *g*19:54
GeneralAntillesThink it'll just confuse the poor bloggers even more? ;)19:54
wazdnow I'm crazy full HD bastard19:54
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Good. Always good :)19:54
*** gunni has joined #maemo19:55
*** n6pfk has quit IRC19:55
*** n6pfk has joined #maemo19:55
* GeneralAntilles wishes somebody had saved him a shirt from the Summit.19:55
*** vivijim1 has joined #maemo19:55
*** vivijim has quit IRC19:55
*** iDialekt has joined #maemo19:57
*** BluesLee has joined #maemo19:58
*** filip42 has joined #maemo19:58
*** Meizirkki has quit IRC19:59
*** _jason553839 has joined #maemo20:00
*** murrayc has quit IRC20:02
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC20:04
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, ping?20:06
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, pong20:06
*** n6pfk has quit IRC20:07
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, does BlueMaemo handle any multimedia stuff directly?20:07
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, on the device, nop :)20:08
GeneralAntillesSo it's not multimedia. :P20:08
GeneralAntillesIt's a Bluetooth utility.20:08
GeneralAntillesBluetooth utilities are a system thing.20:08
*** gunni_ has quit IRC20:08
*** alehorst has quit IRC20:09
*** disq has quit IRC20:10
*** veiz has quit IRC20:10
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, but system, seems strange, I'll think a bit about it, but probably will change it :)20:10
*** rob-bo has quit IRC20:12
wazdVDVsx: heya20:12
*** Cwiiis has quit IRC20:12
VDVsxwazd, hey !!20:13
*** lbt has joined #maemo20:13
wazdVDVsx: http://s44.radikal.ru/i105/0910/4e/2d24874719e3.jpg <- what do you think?20:13
*** Mer-Testing-Maem has joined #maemo20:13
zashwazd: nice20:14
*** Mer-Testing-Maem has quit IRC20:14
*** FLS-Maemo has joined #maemo20:14
*** bilboed-pi has quit IRC20:15
VDVsxwazd, nice, the icons seems smaller than the ones in the menu, but I like it ;)20:15
*** vivijim1 has quit IRC20:15
iDialektIm curious to see what last minute changes nokia is making to the n90020:16
*** mikhas has quit IRC20:16
*** g55 has quit IRC20:18
*** Anwarboy11 has joined #maemo20:18
*** n6pfk has joined #maemo20:18
Anwarboy11hello people20:18
MoabirdiDialekt: The keyboard is apparently going to be removed, and all apps will have to be installed via the app store. Other than that, it stays the same. :P20:18
*** absolute has quit IRC20:18
Anwarboy11anyone know of a release date for the nokia n900?20:18
*** aSIMULAtor has quit IRC20:18
wazdVDVsx: cool :)20:19
*** eichi has quit IRC20:19
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC20:19
qwerty12Moabird: You forgot the change to a capacitive screen...20:19
*** ReinhardK has joined #maemo20:19
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo20:19
MoabirdThat too.20:19
MoabirdAnwarboy11: In the US, sometime this month, I believe.20:20
HydroxideMoabird: last official public comment by someone who knows and can speak for nokia was saying some time in november for the first shipments, including the US20:22
HydroxideMoabird: I'd love it if he was overstimating the delay :)20:22
Hydroxide*overestimating20:22
Anwarboy11oh yes we all would20:22
*** tekonivel has quit IRC20:22
*** tekonivel has joined #maemo20:22
Anwarboy11i so wanted this phone for novemeber 2nd, that was the old date20:22
* Hydroxide waiting since September 3rd20:22
*** Moabird has left #maemo20:22
Hydroxide(preordered then)20:22
*** Moabird has joined #maemo20:23
Anwarboy11wow20:23
Anwarboy11i preorderd 2 weeks ago, before that i was about to buy a s.e satio20:23
MoabirdWell, they better get it here in large numbers before Christmas or I expect the Android phones to grab a lot of its marketshare.20:23
HydroxideMoabird: indeed20:23
Anwarboy11oh theyl be here 4 christmas im sure20:23
HydroxideMoabird: the same person's statments made it clear that they intended to push out a software updated by christmas that would already be after the first shipments. so they're clearly planning on it20:24
*** hannesw__ has quit IRC20:24
Hydroxide(this is Peter Schneider, head of Maemo Marketing, speaking on the maemo forums. he wasn't trying to anonymous)20:24
*** MrGoose has joined #maemo20:24
*** _jason553839 has quit IRC20:24
Hydroxide+be20:24
Anwarboy11i think at the moment they are using the feedback to create the new software update for the developers20:24
MoabirdHydroxide: Well I did also say 'in large numbers'. A limited supply wouldn't work either. I wonder just why it's delayed, anyhow.20:24
Anwarboy11then after the new update is tested they shud release20:25
HydroxideMoabird: yeah. no public news on that beyond that, yes, they're taking into account feedback from the 300 maemo summit loaner units20:25
*** eichi has joined #maemo20:25
Anwarboy11its delayed cos they are using feedback to improve software20:25
* VDVsx is going for a walk in the sunny California ;) bbl20:25
MoabirdSunny? You must be in LA, then.20:25
Anwarboy11the software we'll get on the commercial phones will be the new one20:26
Hydroxideyep20:26
Anwarboy11What phone are you guys using at the moment?20:26
Hydroxidecurrently? AT&T tilt, dual-boot between WinMo 6.1 and a ported Android 1.520:26
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC20:26
Anwarboy11nice, im just using my realy old s.e w850i20:26
Flandryhow do we know when you get access to upload to extras? Is it an email?20:27
GeneralAntillesN900 :P20:27
GeneralAntillesFlandry, X-Fade will email you.20:27
GeneralAntillesWhen did you send the request?20:27
Anwarboy11ure luck general20:27
VDVsxMoabird, Mountain view, not too hot, but it's fine ;)20:27
Flandrya couple hours ago20:27
Flandrymaybe less20:27
Anwarboy11r u one of the summit testers?20:27
Flandry:D20:27
GeneralAntillesFlandry, X-Fade may be done for today.20:27
MoabirdVDVsx: Really? I was in Palo Alto earlier this morning and it was bloody freezing.20:27
GeneralAntillesFlandry, so latest I would expect it is Monday.20:28
Flandryoh poo20:28
*** VDVsx has quit IRC20:28
*** baze has joined #maemo20:28
Anwarboy11anyone else here from uk?20:28
Flandrythat's what i get for waiting until i get the thing to build first eh20:28
*** Moabird has quit IRC20:29
*** vivijim has joined #maemo20:29
Anwarboy11Anyone else here pre-ordered, whose from the uk?20:29
*** alehorst has joined #maemo20:30
Anwarboy11well..20:30
*** vivijim has quit IRC20:30
*** vivijim1 has joined #maemo20:31
* Anwarboy11 slaps alextreme around a bit with a large trout20:31
Anwarboy11time to do my geography coursework.....20:32
Anwarboy11anyone here know python?20:32
adeusyes20:33
*** hannesw__ has joined #maemo20:33
*** Meizirkki_ is now known as Meizirkki20:33
Anwarboy11can you give me tips on how i could start learning it20:33
*** disq has joined #maemo20:34
*** sleipnir has quit IRC20:34
* Anwarboy11 slaps adeus around a bit with a large trout20:34
Anwarboy11WHY DOES NOBODY CHAT HERE?20:35
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC20:35
* GeneralAntilles is busy getting ready for FLS.20:35
*** qwerty12 has joined #maemo20:35
adeusI'd probably read some tutorial and start from there20:35
StskeepsAnwarboy11: this isnt python and in europe its friday evening. google python tutorial20:35
Anwarboy11is python the 1st language i should learn for coding in maemo?20:36
zerojayGeneralAntilles: If I'm not back by Monday, blame Ovi Maps.20:36
adeusIf you're counting on getting lost, then maps is a good bet20:37
Stskeepsow. going to rely on ovi maps?20:37
* Stskeeps waves bye to zerojay 20:37
qwerty12Who knows, he may actually end up in the British Halifax, instead...20:37
zerojayStskeeps: Gonna have nothing else with me except the N900 for the weekend in a strange city.20:37
zerojayI'm writing up my experiences as well.20:38
adeuswhich city20:38
*** vivijim1 has quit IRC20:38
*** vivijim has joined #maemo20:38
Stskeepszerojay: and 3g conn?20:38
* Anwarboy11 slaps aspect around a bit with a large trout20:38
zerojayadeus: Halifax, Canada.20:38
*** Anwarboy11 has quit IRC20:38
*** nielsslot has joined #maemo20:38
zerojayStskeeps: Can't get 3G in Canada with the N900.20:38
Stskeepsow. :P20:39
zerojaySo 2.5... but it doesn't bother me.20:39
Hydroxidewill be able to get 3G, yes? isn't someone rolling out AWS up there?20:39
zerojayAlready got maps downloaded anyways.20:39
zerojayhttp://www.zerojay.com/wp/2009/10/my-trip-with-the-nokia-n900-day-1/20:39
GeneralAntilleszerojay, have fun. ;)20:41
*** alexga has joined #maemo20:41
*** cjdavis_notafk is now known as cjdavis_afk20:41
zerojayGeneralAntilles: We'll see. :)20:41
* GeneralAntilles hits the road for Orlando.20:41
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: Orlando? You?20:42
* qwerty12 dies in shock20:42
*** igagis has joined #maemo20:42
wazdoh, btw, while buying new LCD I've tested 3D display from Viewsonic/nVidia20:43
*** florian has quit IRC20:43
wazdThat's fucking awesome20:43
*** briglia has joined #maemo20:43
wazdbut way too expensive for what it is20:43
qwerty12zerojay: I'd really take another GPS device, or something... Ovi Maps on the N900 at home did not appeal to me, not one bit...20:43
Ceron^zerojay: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zerojay/4026774873/ seriously stop eating so much calories!20:44
Ceron^the n900 wont be able to stay in earths gravity20:44
Ceron^for long, your making your own gravity :P20:45
adeusnah burn more calories!20:45
zerojayCeron^: I have to keep my girlish figure.20:45
Ceron^oh20:45
zerojayqwerty12: I dunno... so far, it's been good to me without any issues. Seems like there's a lot more POIs for Halifax than there were for Quebec, so we'll see.20:46
Ceron^is the gps actually that bad20:46
Ceron^or is it the ovi maps20:47
qwerty12Well, good luck with it all! :)20:47
zerojayCeron^: It's been pretty damn good for me so far.20:47
Ceron^:)20:47
zerojayLock takes 5-30 seconds tops.20:47
qwerty12Ceron^: GPS, as long as you have a network connection, is awesome; I just dislike Ovi Maps...20:47
zerojayMy complaint about Ovi Maps on the N900 is that you can't create your own POIs apparently.20:47
Ceron^why would it need network connection :P20:47
Ceron^i have had gps's for ages20:48
Ceron^the a-gps is not that important20:48
Ceron^they have all worked fine without cell tower information20:48
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Actaully, fiferboy was available on flickr, just not on yahoo o_O20:49
fiferboySo I am fifer_boy on yahoo and fiferboy on flickr.  Weird.20:49
qwerty12fiferboy is weird20:50
* fiferboy is weird20:50
*** vivijim has quit IRC20:51
*** BluesLee has quit IRC20:51
Hydroxidefiferboy: so they won't let you merge your accounts?20:52
fiferboyHydroxide: Someone else has the fiferboy yahoo account, but I somehow got the fiferboy flickr account20:53
*** lcuk has quit IRC20:53
zerojayMy original Yahoo account got fucked because they originally didn't allow case sensitivity and then did... or something like that. Broke my account to the point that Yahoo just told me "make another, it won't ever work".20:54
*** baze has quit IRC20:55
*** dirtyrice88 has quit IRC20:55
*** Moabird has joined #maemo20:59
*** cbgb has joined #maemo21:00
*** shdb has quit IRC21:01
*** shdb has joined #maemo21:01
*** zerojay has quit IRC21:04
*** hardaker has joined #maemo21:06
*** Moabird has quit IRC21:06
*** millenomi has quit IRC21:06
*** sleipnir has joined #maemo21:09
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo21:09
*** sjgadsby has quit IRC21:09
*** Meiz_TB has joined #maemo21:10
*** SpeedEvil1 has joined #maemo21:10
*** vivijim has joined #maemo21:12
*** JamieBennett has left #maemo21:16
*** FLS-Maemo has quit IRC21:18
*** hellwolf has quit IRC21:19
Flandrya-gps speeds it up a lot21:21
Flandryusing the servers to do the crunching21:21
Flandryquestion about debianization: is the Type of Package: field important?21:23
RST38hthat is not exactly how agps works but anyway21:23
Flandryit doesn't exist on the debian package i'm looking out21:23
jeremiahFlandry: Yeah, it is21:23
Flandryyou're thinking of cell tower triangulation21:23
jeremiahIf you mean like Source vs. Binary types?21:23
*** jrocha has joined #maemo21:23
Flandrysingle vs multiple21:23
jeremiahah21:24
jeremiahYou want a single21:24
jeremiahYou are probably just building a lib right?21:24
Flandryno this is for a game21:24
jeremiahOh, I see21:24
Flandryit includes a binary and some files21:24
GAN900~ping21:24
infobot~pong21:24
jeremiahHow many binary packages will this source package build?21:25
Flandryhmmm21:25
jeremiahIf you are building foo-dev, foo, and foo-dbg, then you need multiple21:25
GAN900Don't tell me Ovi wont accept an address. . . .21:25
Flandrydo i have to have it build the content packages21:25
jeremiahIf you are just building foo, no big deal21:25
Flandryi mean, the autobuilder21:25
Flandryor can i upload those21:25
jeremiahFlandry: By content package do you mean Source package or do you mean some data dir?21:26
Flandryif the latter it's just a single package21:26
Flandrygame content like audio, video21:26
jeremiahSo you are going to ship .mp3 files for example?21:26
Flandryyeah there is content that is zipped up using a tool21:27
Flandrybut it seems silly to have the autobuilder do that21:27
jeremiahWell, if the content does not need to be 'built' then you don't need to have the autobuilder do it.21:27
Flandryk21:27
jeremiahYou can just ship it with the package in a "data" dir21:28
jeremiahOr an "example" dir21:28
jeremiahOr call it whatever you want21:28
*** hannesw__ has quit IRC21:28
Flandrycan i not have it depend on another package?21:28
*** hannesw has joined #maemo21:28
Flandryand make a separate data package21:28
jeremiahI suppose you could do a virtual package or something21:29
jeremiahBut that is a little more work21:29
Flandryi'm not sure how that would work with maemo's installer21:29
jeremiahAre people going to download the data separately?21:29
jeremiahDoes it make sense that they might?21:29
Flandrythere are more add-ons than i will include in the default21:29
Flandryso they could21:29
jeremiahI think you should include it, or look at Frozen bubble and see how they add their data21:30
Flandrygame as it will come is about 15 mg21:30
FlandryMB21:30
Flandrymg lol21:30
jeremiahNo so bad.21:30
jeremiahFor a game anyway.21:30
Flandrythe optional content is 110 mb more21:30
Flandryand there are others21:30
jeremiahoh.21:30
jeremiahCan't you put links to that and keep it on the web or something?21:30
Flandryi don't know what's the maemo way21:31
* jeremiah reads our incomplete policy document21:31
Flandryha21:31
mgedminopenarena and openarena-data together are ~300 megs21:32
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo21:32
jeremiahMaemo Packaging Policy Section 3.9.6:21:32
mgedminIt makes sense to package game data separately, I think21:32
*** IcanCU has joined #maemo21:33
Flandryso an end user would install two packages?21:33
jeremiahIf the packaged software has different configurations those configurations SHOULD be package separately21:33
Flandryotherwise how would they remove the data21:33
jeremiahConfigurations could be simple files in /etc or something more complex such as themes or pluggable modules21:34
jeremiahSo it looks like official policy is to have a separate package.21:34
mgedminwell, the end user would install the game21:34
Flandryi suppose automatically removing the content when uninstalling the game is acceptable21:34
mgedminthe data package would be a dependency and would be installed automatically21:35
mgedminI think the app manager is smart enough to remove those packages when the main package is removed21:35
Flandryoh really21:35
ali1234surely it should be the other way around?21:35
mgedminum, no21:35
Flandryi thought i read it wouldn't default ever to that21:35
mgedmingame depends on data21:35
ali1234data depends on game, because you might want the game and some other data21:35
*** kkito has joined #maemo21:35
ali1234but the data alone is useless21:35
Flandryoh man21:36
kkitohello21:36
Flandrynow i'm really confused :D21:36
mgedminwell, then have "some other data" say it Provides what the game needs21:36
mgedminevery Debian-packaged game has "game depends on data"21:36
mgedminjust look at them21:36
ali1234everyone is wrong but me21:36
Flandryso how does the data get removed?21:36
kkitoi am trying to build a opengl-es2 game for fremantle, but i am unable to run it under X86 or ARMEL (scratchbox)21:36
jeremiahMaemo Packaging Policy Section 3.9.6:21:36
jeremiahIf the packaged software has different configurations those configurations SHOULD be package separately21:36
jeremiahConfigurations could be simple files in /etc or something more complex such as themes or pluggable modules21:37
kkitodo you know if it is possible to debug opengl-es2 apps in scratchbox21:37
jeremiah^^ The above is OFFICIAL MAEMO POLICY. :)21:37
ali1234kkito: currently no afaik21:37
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo21:37
kkitoand how to do it?21:37
Flandrysooo helpful21:37
kkitothen i need a device to run the binary?21:37
*** Firebird has joined #maemo21:37
jeremiahFlandry: Well, in short, it means package the sample game separately21:37
jeremiahAnd have the game pull in your data with a depends line21:38
Flandryso there are two packages the user installs?21:38
jeremiahEasy21:38
jeremiahFlandry: Yeah.21:38
jeremiahAt least.21:38
Flandryok21:38
jeremiahThey may have to install other dependencies as well no?21:38
mgedminhmm21:38
Flandryum they should be automatic shouldn't they?21:38
mgedminif I try to uninstall openarena from the app manager, it says it's going to free 3 megs of device memory21:38
ali1234kkito: well you can target the gl-es simulator, but i don't know how to do that21:39
mgedminno word about uninstalling openarena-data that is hundreds of megs21:39
mgedminI'm not actually going with it just to see it worked21:39
Flandrysee that's the problem i'm trying to avoid21:39
mgedmindownloading 300 megs back over a 0.3 Mbit/s 3g connection would not be fun21:39
Flandryi will make one package that has the game and the basic content21:40
Flandryand another package that depends on it with the optional data21:40
mgedminFlandry: how big is the "basic content"?21:40
RST38ha UnitedHealth subsidiary in Colorado denied coverage to Peggy Robertson, mother of two, because she wasnt sterilized after her caesarian-section delivery procedure, according to a letter made public.21:40
Flandry15 mb21:40
mgedminnot too big then21:40
Flandrygame itself about 4-521:40
Flandryi was going to default to include extra music21:41
Flandryso 1521:41
mgedminjust please don't forget to optify it ;)21:41
Flandrybut not voice files21:41
Flandryi don't think i can put the optional data in a different directory21:41
mgedminnon-scrollable apps menu sucks, but I don't wanna reboot21:41
Flandryof wait21:41
Flandrycan i symlink to the user partition?21:41
Flandryput the game package in /opt21:42
*** hannesw has quit IRC21:42
Flandryand symlink to the optional package in user partition?21:42
Flandryor is 120MB ok for /opt21:42
jeremiah"/opt" is designed to hold lots O data21:43
*** Tahitibob35 has joined #maemo21:44
Flandryabout 1 GB right21:44
jeremiahI think more.21:44
Flandryhmm someone needs to update wiki21:44
jeremiahI thought 2 gigs or so, but there are others here who no more about the optification21:44
Flandryalright i'll just stick it all in opt21:44
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC21:45
Flandry/opt/games21:45
*** L0cutus has quit IRC21:46
*** florian has joined #maemo21:46
ali1234 /opt is 2GB and includes everything in your home directory outside MyDocs21:47
*** ad-n770 has joined #maemo21:47
*** mikkov__ has joined #maemo21:47
*** eichi has quit IRC21:48
*** penguinbait has quit IRC21:48
mikkov__mgedmin: application manager doesn't uninstall depencies installed by apt-get (at leas in maemo4)21:48
*** JamieBennett has joined #maemo21:50
*** ad-n770 has quit IRC21:50
*** mgedmin_ has joined #maemo21:51
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC21:52
*** SpeedEvil1 is now known as SpeedEvil21:52
*** SpeedEvil1 has joined #maemo21:52
*** hellwolf has joined #maemo21:56
*** SpeedEvil2 has joined #maemo21:59
*** radic has joined #maemo22:00
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC22:00
*** SpeedEvil2 is now known as SpeedEvi122:00
*** SpeedEvi1 is now known as SpeedEvil222:00
*** SpeedEvil2 is now known as SpeedEvil22:01
*** filip42 has quit IRC22:01
*** SpeedEvil1 has quit IRC22:01
*** _berto_ has quit IRC22:02
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo22:05
*** tonikitoo has quit IRC22:05
*** IcanCU has quit IRC22:05
*** _jason553839 has joined #maemo22:06
*** mgedmin has quit IRC22:08
*** v6sa has joined #maemo22:12
v6saHey guys22:12
v6saI have managed to mess up filesystem on my N900, is there any possibility to access console?22:13
v6sato boot to recovery mode or something like that?22:13
mgedmin_uh oh22:13
mgedmin_so it doesn't boot?22:13
v6sayeah... :S22:13
luke-jrv6sa: nope. better send it to me.22:13
luke-jr<.<22:14
Stskeepsv6sa: only if you wire up a serial port22:14
hardakerbetter: send me yours and one working one and I'll play with them until they both work (or are both broken).  No charge.22:14
wazdI love how all bloggers and analysts can't see the real reason for sueing Apple22:14
mgedmin_v6sa: I think your best bet is contacting quim and asking nicely for a flashable OS image22:14
*** crashanddie has quit IRC22:14
wazdThat's damn funny22:15
mgedmin_wazd: money?22:15
wazdmgedmin_: ofcourse not22:15
wazdmgedmin_: no money, no "fear" or whatever22:15
mgedmin_inherent evilness of the patent system?22:15
Firebirdbecause they can?22:15
v6samgedin_: quim said that images are available after the official release22:15
mgedmin_v6sa: which is middle of november22:15
*** JamieBennett1 has joined #maemo22:16
mgedmin_do you know what you broke?22:16
*** kkito has quit IRC22:16
mgedmin_maybe using the flasher to enable R&D mode and disable the software watchdog would let your n900 limp to some kind of boot?22:16
wazdmgedmin_: Nokia: Not long ago we had a deal bouut having multitouch license. Can we?22:16
wazdApple (Jobs): no, screw you, hahahaha!22:16
wazdNokia: Ok22:16
Xisdibikmgedmin_: dont remind me :(  Middle of november *sob*22:16
mgedmin_see, patents are evil22:16
* ShadowJK hopes new battery for his N810 arrives soon22:17
wazdmgedmin_: Steve Jobs is just crazy man, that's all :)22:17
v6samgedmin_: it's not good enough for nwo22:17
mgedmin_nwo?22:18
ifreqwazd: crazy man who does lots of money.22:18
v6samgedmin_: now22:18
mgedmin_ah22:18
v6saany other suggestions?22:18
wazdifreq: "doing lots of money" is not the goal of life22:18
mgedmin_no22:18
ifreqwazd: what is the ultimate goal? die?22:19
wazdifreq: I don't know, but definitely not collecting paper sheets of different colors22:19
wazdifreq: our life is not Monopoly :)22:20
Flyserdoes anyone know what the purpose of the cellmo headers in maemo 5 is22:20
*** bilboed has joined #maemo22:20
*** JamieBennett has quit IRC22:21
thphow can I upload the webpage of garage projects that use Git instead of SVN?22:21
*** mgedmin_ is now known as mgedmin22:21
v6samgedmin: what about console?22:21
v6savia us22:21
v6sausb22:21
mgedminno clue22:22
mgedmindoes such a thing exist?22:22
*** Meizirkki has quit IRC22:23
mgedminhmm... with flasher maybe you can pass arguments on the kernel's cmdline22:23
* RST38h feels ok about making lots of money as a goal22:23
Firebirdthere's still USB dropbear ssh isn't there?22:23
*** VDVsx has quit IRC22:23
mgedminand on older devices it was possible to enable a serial console with the flasher, if you connected the right leads to the right JTAG pins somewhere22:23
mgedminunder the battery iirc22:23
*** panaggio has quit IRC22:24
mgedminwell, USB networking can work if the device (a) boots and (b) can be convinced to ifconfig usb0 correctly22:24
*** millenomi has joined #maemo22:25
*** penguinbait has joined #maemo22:27
coldbootWhat's that command you type to see what the system is doing? So say you plug in a usb thing, it will print a message to something.22:27
coldbootI can't believe I've forgotten it...22:27
coldbootUsually you pipe it to tail, it's got all kernel messages in it...22:27
fiferboycoldboot: dmesg?22:27
coldbootthanks22:28
*** mgedmin has quit IRC22:29
v6sahow do I boot it to use with flasher?22:29
v6saI mean start up22:30
*** JamieBennett1 is now known as JamieBennett22:30
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo22:30
*** shdb has quit IRC22:31
*** shdb has joined #maemo22:31
*** ArSa__ is now known as ArSa22:32
wiretappedhttp://www.hahastop.com/pictures/Webcam_Repair.jpg22:33
*** JoeBrain has joined #maemo22:33
*** panaggio has joined #maemo22:36
BBNSmmm nice, git for maemo announced. hopefully that will fasten the development cycle.22:37
mgedmin*sigh*22:38
*** mikkov__ has quit IRC22:38
BBNSmgedmin: what? :Q22:38
`0660i'm sure the development will now speed up ten-fold :)22:38
*** panaggio has quit IRC22:38
*** mikkov__ has joined #maemo22:38
mgedminno maemo 5 kernel sources there22:38
mgedminI can't build iptables22:38
*** panaggio has joined #maemo22:39
mgedminwhenever wlan hiccups my ssh proxy dies and xchat loses connection22:39
*** _jason553839 has quit IRC22:39
*** JoeBrain has quit IRC22:40
BBNSmgedmin: i though you could build your get kernel source from SDK? o.o maybe i am wrong.22:40
BBNSdidn't look that part yet.22:40
mgedminSDK has older kernel than my preproduction n90022:40
mgedminthis is an interesting package name: http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-pkg/ugly-hacks22:41
BBNSalright, then just wait then. =p it's already amazed they release so many sources.22:41
v6samgedmin: I am screwed? :D:D22:41
*** trbs has joined #maemo22:41
*** trbs2 has joined #maemo22:41
mgedminv6sa: seriously, have you talked to qgil about the fact that your n900 is bricked?22:41
mgedminif he says you're screwed, then you're screwed22:42
BBNSit's interesting to see Calendar framework is iCal standard ... maybe someone could make it sync with Mac? =P22:42
mgedminhm... http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenDevelopment says the kernel is at http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/tmlind/linux-omap-2.6.git;a=summary22:44
*** Meiz_TB has quit IRC22:44
*** mgedmin_ has joined #maemo22:46
jeremiahBBNS: I have been trying to do that, and there is no obvious way22:46
*** mgedmin has quit IRC22:47
mgedmin_there's a v2.6.28-omap1 tag that matches my kernel version22:47
mgedmin_but it was made on Fri, 9 Jan 200922:47
mgedmin_there's no way it's exactly the same code22:47
Flandrywhere the hell is uuencode?22:48
mgedmin_/usr/bin/uuencode22:48
mgedmin_why do you ask?22:48
Flandrytrying to use it to encode an icon, and it's not in path22:49
Flandryactually it's not there oO22:49
FlandryPackage uuencode is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source22:50
BBNSjeremiah: what's the difficulty? o.o22:50
Flandryanyone else have uuencode in their scratchbox?22:51
mgedmin_yes, I22:51
mgedmin_it comes from sharutils 1:4.2.1-13maemo122:51
mgedmin_according to dpkg -S22:51
mgedmin_afaik it was preinstalled in the rootstrap22:51
*** setanta has quit IRC22:51
*** setanta has joined #maemo22:51
Flandrythe package sharutils is not installed22:52
Flandrybizarre22:53
Flandrywell i got it now; thanks for help22:53
*** Tahitibob35 has quit IRC22:53
*** falmeida has quit IRC22:54
*** elninja has joined #maemo22:56
*** halves has quit IRC22:56
mgedmin_maybe it wasn't preinstalled, let me check /var/log/dpkg.log22:57
mgedmin_no such file22:57
Flandrywell i guess i'm glad i'm not crazy23:00
Flandryseems to me it should be though23:00
*** kr1shnak__ has left #maemo23:05
*** b-man17 has joined #maemo23:07
*** fab has quit IRC23:08
*** ad-n770 has joined #maemo23:11
mgedmin_hm, a few minutes ago personal-gprs-monitor showed 150 megs downloaded23:12
mgedmin_now it shows 7 kB23:12
mgedmin_the device just reset its counters23:12
mgedmin_last reset date still says "Never"23:12
*** panaggio has quit IRC23:14
*** trofi_ has joined #maemo23:14
*** kkito has joined #maemo23:14
*** vivijim has quit IRC23:15
fiferboymgedmin_: zerojay has noted that too.  I think there is a bug open on it, although I haven't seen it23:16
*** vivijim has joined #maemo23:17
fiferboymgedmin_: As I understand it, that data in the system is being reset23:19
fiferboyThat is, it shows as reset in the control panel as well23:19
mgedmin_yes23:19
mgedmin_true23:19
mgedmin_I was just noticing that it reset without my interaction (e.g. rebooting, or disconnecting 3g)23:19
mgedmin_all by itself23:19
fiferboyI think zerojay said the bug was closed recently, but that the problem still exists so should be reopened23:21
*** promulo has quit IRC23:21
*** bilboed has quit IRC23:25
Firebirdhttp://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9859/uimock.png mmm, added some chairs23:25
*** fiferboy has quit IRC23:27
*** alehorst has quit IRC23:29
*** ad-n770 has quit IRC23:30
*** mgedmin_ has quit IRC23:31
*** trofi has quit IRC23:31
*** Anunakin has quit IRC23:33
*** alehorst has joined #maemo23:33
*** aakashd has quit IRC23:34
jeremiahBBNS: Well, you would think there would be something like 'import calendar' on the device, but I can't find taht.23:36
*** aakashd has joined #maemo23:36
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo23:36
*** sleipnir has quit IRC23:37
Xisdibikhey mgedmin how much usage you think one should expect with it just idleing around with widgets updating + email.  in a day23:39
Xisdibikwidgets like weather etc23:40
*** coldboot has quit IRC23:40
Xisdibikand i mean like kb/mb per day  not hours of life ;)23:40
*** phnom has joined #maemo23:41
*** kkito has quit IRC23:41
*** mgedmin has quit IRC23:42
*** chenca has quit IRC23:43
*** Mousey has joined #maemo23:44
*** panaggio has joined #maemo23:45
*** lizardo has quit IRC23:47
*** baraujo has quit IRC23:47
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo23:48
*** sontek has joined #maemo23:49
sontekHey, does the n900 work well as a phone? I loved the n800 but didn't want to carry 2 devices23:49
mgedminXisdibik: no clue, I never idle23:49
*** achipa has joined #maemo23:50
*** mgedmin has quit IRC23:51
achipaI can't believe it... I have my very own 'fixed in Fremantle' bug23:51
* achipa feels very strange23:51
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo23:52
*** ArSa has quit IRC23:52
*** n6pfkk has joined #maemo23:54
*** n6pfk has quit IRC23:54
*** sphenxes has quit IRC23:55
*** ariya_home has joined #maemo23:57
*** pupnik has joined #maemo23:57

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!