| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: I'd be glad to test PIM for you ;p | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Ceron^ | does anyone know if google is actually makinga a maemo compatible version :o | 00:00 |
| Ceron^ | of there gmaps software | 00:00 |
| Ceron^ | or google earth | 00:00 |
| luke-jr | why would they? | 00:00 |
| luke-jr | they compete with Maemo | 00:01 |
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| mgedmin | wtf? ping is perfect, yet ssh keeps dropping. iwconfig says power management is off. wtf? | 00:01 |
| ali1234 | same reason they made one for windows mobile? | 00:01 |
| SpeedEvil | mgedmin: is your IP changing? | 00:01 |
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| * crashanddie killed the audio out on his laptop :( | 00:03 | |
| crashanddie | so now I'm wondering if I should get an iMac or an external sound card | 00:04 |
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| lcuk | live in silence | 00:05 |
| crashanddie | no can do | 00:05 |
| * JamieBennett loves my iMac :P | 00:05 | |
| crashanddie | JamieBennett, third person fail | 00:05 |
| JamieBennett | :P There is more that one of me in here | 00:05 |
| crashanddie | my still doesn't make sense | 00:06 |
| lcuk | take your damn pills | 00:06 |
| JamieBennett | than | 00:06 |
| * lbt wonders if people buy iMacs as socially acceptable ways to demonstrate submissive behaviour.... | 00:06 | |
| lbt | kinda like wearing shackles in public.... but white | 00:06 |
| JamieBennett | lbt: no a way to edit video acceptably | 00:06 |
| crashanddie | lbt, nope, we just buy the suckers cuz they're cool, work well, and look pretty | 00:06 |
| lcuk | bitesized chunks are better than a bit massive all in one presentation arent they | 00:06 |
| lbt | avidemux | 00:07 |
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| crashanddie | would it be possible to export my laptop sound to the n810/n900? | 00:07 |
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| lbt | pulseaudio? | 00:07 |
| kynky | crashanddie, yep | 00:07 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, if you can find out how it would be cool | 00:07 |
| JamieBennett | talking of video, the guy who emailed me about last years coverage, man, this years by a 'professional company' is ... | 00:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: broken screen laptop on ebay, swap | 00:08 |
| crashanddie | I did it once | 00:08 |
| JamieBennett | (the summit) | 00:08 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil, it's the sound, not the screen | 00:08 |
| lcuk | whats broke | 00:08 |
| lbt | is the video up? | 00:08 |
| lcuk | is it just crackly | 00:08 |
| lcuk | or totally gone | 00:08 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: yes, and if you swap the screen over, ... | 00:08 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil, and if I swap the screen over, I still have no sound | 00:08 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 00:08 | |
| crashanddie | screen doesn't produce sound, IIRC | 00:08 |
| ali1234 | crashanddie: if you swapped the screen over you'd have a broken screen *and* no sound | 00:09 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: ebay for a laptop with a broken screen, but the same model. | 00:09 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: Swap screens over. | 00:09 |
| crashanddie | ali1234, aaaah, makes sense now | 00:09 |
| ali1234 | and a working screen, and a laptop with working screen and no sound | 00:09 |
| kynky | if you drop screen from height, it can make sound | 00:09 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, whats actually happened to sound | 00:09 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil, it's just a sound connector, and you want me to replace the whole box? | 00:09 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil, talk about recycling | 00:09 |
| ali1234 | i mean... well you get it | 00:09 |
| lcuk | and if its totally off, how do you know its not just software | 00:09 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: unless you have the visual bell option on. | 00:09 |
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| kynky | lol | 00:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Or just resolder the phone connector | 00:09 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, opened up the laptop earlier | 00:09 |
| SpeedEvil | (If it's that) | 00:10 |
| lcuk | yeah i open mine up normally too | 00:10 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, this morning, in a hurry, long cables, clumsy feet | 00:10 |
| lcuk | cant use it without it open | 00:10 |
| lcuk | ahh you dropped it | 00:10 |
| crashanddie | yanked, green thingy is split in half (inside the laptop) | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: can you solder? | 00:10 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil, electronics degree ;) | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: can you solder? | 00:10 |
| ali1234 | green thingy? | 00:10 |
| ali1234 | i don't think they sell those at RS | 00:11 |
| crashanddie | ali1234, output jack | 00:11 |
| * SpeedEvil bemoans the quality of practical work in electronic degrees. | 00:11 | |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: there are relatively few pinouts and sizes for headphone jacks | 00:11 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil, stop thinking you're a godsend to humanity, yes, some people have the same skills as you do | 00:11 |
| SpeedEvil | So it's generally not too hard to find a matching | 00:11 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: And I wasn't being serious. | 00:11 |
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| acidjazz | wow | 00:12 |
| kynky | crashanddie, did you do any soldering in electronics degree ? matlab had a good electronics package | 00:12 |
| crashanddie | problem is, even though I can solder, this laptop apparently is unable to be opened completely without breaking off some plastic bits around the hinges | 00:12 |
| SpeedEvil | unless you've managed to pull out some tracks, which can happen with SMD jacks. :/ | 00:12 |
| acidjazz | stoked on the size of this channel :) | 00:12 |
| * SpeedEvil hugs laptops with actual dissasembly manuals. | 00:12 | |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil, it's what I'm suspecting, there's a nasty cut on the mobo | 00:12 |
| acidjazz | <- ordered his n900 last week on amazon | 00:12 |
| crashanddie | acidjazz, congrats, you'll have it after xmas | 00:13 |
| acidjazz | so is the ship date still not known? | 00:13 |
| acidjazz | crashanddie: lol | 00:13 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: I take it you've googled for dissasembly info? | 00:13 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil, yup | 00:13 |
| acidjazz | crashhanddie; should i have ordered it from nokia.com ? | 00:13 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil, samsung r55, didn't find anything interesting | 00:13 |
| crashanddie | acidjazz, I dunno, but you could start by using tab or making an effort when spelling my nickname | 00:13 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: is that a netbook - pre-netbook? | 00:13 |
| JamieBennett | Controversial but is anyone declining their developer offer? | 00:13 |
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| crashanddie | ali1234, exhibit a why the nickname parsing would be fail | 00:13 |
| crashanddie | JamieBennett, which one? | 00:14 |
| acidjazz | crashanddie: so you just basically think it wont ship anywhere near their estimated date | 00:14 |
| kynky | u can get nokia n900 for £310 sim free from nokia store | 00:14 |
| SpeedEvil | JamieBennett: In the UK it's actually not cheaper to take it up. (unless you have to keep your existing phone contract for some reason) | 00:14 |
| crashanddie | acidjazz, dunno, I'm just a troll pissed off because of his lack of sound, don't mind me | 00:14 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: 310? From nokia? | 00:14 |
| acidjazz | kynky: in the US? u lie | 00:14 |
| JamieBennett | crashanddie the one that offers the n900 for a 'cheaper phone' | 00:14 |
| kynky | im in uk | 00:15 |
| crashanddie | JamieBennett, I'm not in the conversation | 00:15 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: nokia.co.uk has it at 499 | 00:15 |
| kynky | w00t, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=351329&postcount=1326 | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | crashanddie: i don't see it | 00:15 |
| kynky | with discount codes it goes to £310 | 00:15 |
| crashanddie | [22:13] <acidjazz> crashhanddie; should i have ordered it from nokia.com ? | 00:15 |
| JamieBennett | Seems very expensive compared to the 99$/£ that is was before | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | so you want to measure when people talk about other people? | 00:15 |
| luke-jr | Pandora is cheaper and more open ;) | 00:15 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: ah - I see | 00:15 |
| crashanddie | ali1234, nvmd | 00:16 |
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| acidjazz | Tentative delivery date: November 2009. | 00:16 |
| acidjazz | US site says end of October | 00:16 |
| kynky | i ordered mine a few hours ago, w00t ordered 3 a few hours ago, on same deal, told my friend at work, he ordered 1 too | 00:16 |
| absolute | I dunno, i saw that post on the "did your n900 ship today?" thread about getting all the discount codes, but when they listed the price in pounds, i figured it wasn't worth much to me, just kept my amazon usa order | 00:16 |
| acidjazz | looks like a scam | 00:17 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: damn, that is cheap | 00:17 |
| kynky | mobilephonesdirect (which do sim free and contract deals) say end of october | 00:17 |
| acidjazz | absolute: i have an amazon usa order as well | 00:17 |
| aSIMULAtur | i should order mine too | 00:17 |
| acidjazz | i dont really care too much to save money i just want the phone now! :) | 00:17 |
| aSIMULAtur | me too! | 00:17 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: what would be killer would be if you could apply that discount, and get a kickback off the contract too | 00:17 |
| kynky | SpeedEvil, i wasnt gonna get1, heard some1 here say discount codes, was straight onto google | 00:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | aSIMULAtor: You don't get to keep your current one? :\ | 00:18 |
| aSIMULAtur | hehe yeah i do | 00:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ah, lol | 00:18 |
| aSIMULAtur | i'm just screwing around | 00:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | :p | 00:18 |
| crashanddie | lmao | 00:18 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, I posted an answer to my question a year and a half ago: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=19059 | 00:18 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAtor: so | 00:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | you wanted a tool to deal w/ string hunting, right? | 00:18 |
| aSIMULAtur | did i? | 00:19 |
| aSIMULAtur | ok where is it | 00:19 |
| kynky | SpeedEvil, nothing stoppig you from say getting a contract for 18months with free n97, and then sell n97 on ebay | 00:19 |
| crashanddie | talk about brainfuck | 00:19 |
| aSIMULAtur | i still haven't downloaded what u told me to download | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: hmm. | 00:19 |
| aSIMULAtur | are u going to work tomorrow timeless | 00:19 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: problem with that route is phones are the number one thing fraudsters are going for on ebay | 00:19 |
| timeless_mbp | you haven't downloaded it?! | 00:19 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: Send it my way, too; if I'm to fix Zenity, something that actually uses it would help :) | 00:19 |
| aSIMULAtur | stop by my desk help me with this string download thing cause i lost the info when i reconnected shell/irc here | 00:20 |
| aSIMULAtur | no i haven't | 00:20 |
| aSIMULAtur | don't killl me! | 00:20 |
| kynky | SpeedEvil, yeah heard that too, but wanna sell my touch pro on ebay, otherwise will have to sell on cex or phonebank etc | 00:20 |
| aSIMULAtur | why not just..throw the touch pro somewhere | 00:20 |
| aSIMULAtur | like out the window | 00:20 |
| aSIMULAtur | or | 00:20 |
| aSIMULAtur | at a stupid person | 00:21 |
| kynky | lol | 00:21 |
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| aSIMULAtur | they're big phones | 00:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAtur: so, install the package now :) | 00:21 |
| kynky | bout same size as n900 | 00:21 |
| aSIMULAtur | is it? for some reason the n900 seems so much smaller | 00:22 |
| aSIMULAtur | i guess cause it's more awesomenerrenrnssess | 00:22 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAtur / qwerty12_N810 : the last item in the dialog lets you do string work | 00:22 |
| timeless_mbp | please note that it takes a really long time to build the database | 00:22 |
| timeless_mbp | so don't be surprised once you ask for Advanced options that it spins for a long time before you get the next screen | 00:22 |
| timeless_mbp | once you're there though, you can do lots of things ... just don't cancel out of the main menu :) | 00:23 |
| aSIMULAtur | well i'm going to download this tomorrow, timestamp noted | 00:23 |
| aSIMULAtur | cause it's time for sleep | 00:23 |
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| aSIMULAtur | timeless: do u sleep? | 00:24 |
| timeless_mbp | good night | 00:24 |
| timeless_mbp | yes, between 2am and 10am or so :) | 00:24 |
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| ifreq | http://europe.nokia.com/microsites/discount-twitter | 00:24 |
| aSIMULAtur | how do u manage | 00:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | that's 8hrs! | 00:24 |
| aSIMULAtur | actually now that i think of it | 00:25 |
| aSIMULAtur | u get more sleep than i do :P | 00:25 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 00:25 |
| aSIMULAtur | i average 6.5-7 hrs | 00:25 |
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| aSIMULAtur | ok then...good nite see you later | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why do I suddenly have two Others in h-a-m? | 00:26 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: is this my strings? | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, no, haven't touched the strings since you gave me the tar package. | 00:26 |
| timeless_mbp | ah | 00:26 |
| timeless_mbp | i've switched to having an almost proper package | 00:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Where is it? | 00:27 |
| acidjazz | so how is the maemo sdk? is it solid and easy to install/get into ? | 00:28 |
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| kynky | it supports a lot of languages | 00:29 |
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| mgedmin | hey! out amsterdam image has kernel 2.6.28-20094102+0m5, the maemo 5 sdk has kernel sources for 2.6.28-20093908+0m5 | 00:29 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | mgedmin: The SDK repo is way out of date | 00:29 |
| mgedmin | that probably explains why my iptable_nat.ko gets the symbol version mismatch | 00:30 |
| mgedmin | so where do I get the right kernel sources? | 00:30 |
| mgedmin | please don't tell me to send a written request to nokia | 00:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Good question... | 00:30 |
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| pupnik_ | i find no flasher images yet | 00:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Haven't been released yet. | 00:33 |
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| * mgedmin sighs | 00:33 | |
| crashanddie_ | esd hack doesn't work on n900 :( | 00:34 |
| ali1234 | just hack the module versioning | 00:34 |
| ali1234 | i doubt anything got changed in netfilter | 00:34 |
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| crashanddie_ | can't be bothered | 00:34 |
| crashanddie_ | will just do it on the n810 | 00:34 |
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| lcuk2 | crashanddie, thats cos esd isnt on n900 i dont think | 00:37 |
| crashanddie_ | lcuk, probably pulseaudio interfering | 00:37 |
| crashanddie_ | lcuk2, but even after killing pulseaudio, esd doesn't take over | 00:37 |
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| paulo_ouriques | id like to know how hildon-application-manager lists the instaled applications. | 00:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | paulo_ouriques: it's open source | 00:40 |
| timeless_mbp | you could read it | 00:40 |
| paulo_ouriques | i think that is not with dpkg | 00:40 |
| timeless_mbp | paulo_ouriques: do you want maemo4 or maemo5 ? | 00:40 |
| lcuk2 | paulo_ouriques, my guess, it makes a virtual list and tells gtk to draw them | 00:40 |
| Macer | godfather 1 is great | 00:40 |
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| paulo_ouriques | how i do it with ssh? | 00:41 |
| mgedmin | my Internet Connection Sharing thread on maemo-users@ resembles a monologue | 00:42 |
| crashanddie_ | paulo_ouriques, do you want the installed applications or available ones? | 00:42 |
| absolute | paulo_ouriques: it is simplyl a frontend for apt and dpkg | 00:42 |
| paulo_ouriques | installed | 00:42 |
| absolute | it uses them | 00:42 |
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| mgedmin | crashanddie_: why would you want to replace pulseaudio with esd? | 00:42 |
| crashanddie_ | paulo_ouriques, dpkg -l? | 00:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: old obsolete technology is great :! | 00:42 |
| Macer | haha | 00:43 |
| crashanddie_ | paulo_ouriques, dpkg --get-selection | 00:43 |
| crashanddie_ | paulo_ouriques, dpkg --get-selections | 00:43 |
| mgedmin | for more human-friendly output dpkg -l | 00:43 |
| crashanddie_ | mgedmin, you're late :P | 00:43 |
| mgedmin | for more human-friendly output that doesn't truncate package names arbitrarily, dpkg -l|cat | 00:43 |
| absolute | why pipe it into cat? | 00:43 |
| crashanddie_ | absolute, try it | 00:43 |
| timeless_mbp | dpkg will do sizing to terminal width otherwise | 00:44 |
| mgedmin | absolute: because dpkg checks if stdout is a tty and if so truncates it to fit $COLUMNS | 00:44 |
| timeless_mbp | which is usually annoying | 00:44 |
| absolute | ooooooh ok | 00:44 |
| absolute | that makes sense | 00:44 |
| absolute | that's a neat trick | 00:44 |
| absolute | i'mma remember that | 00:44 |
| * mgedmin has this little alias list-installed-packages=dpkg-query -W --showformat '${STATUS} ${PACKAGE}=${VERSION}\n'|grep ' installed '|cut -d ' ' -f 4- | 00:44 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | That is useful indeed, thanks mgedmin | 00:45 |
| mgedmin | needs dpkg-query which comes from I don't remember where | 00:45 |
| mgedmin | I use it to compare package versions on two different machines | 00:45 |
| mgedmin | for more casual use the =${VERSION} ought to be omitted | 00:45 |
| paulo_ouriques | but using dpkg -- get-selection i have all of installed app, and i want only the hildon-application-manager list. | 00:46 |
| mgedmin | paulo_ouriques: filter those that are from section: user/* | 00:46 |
| crashanddie_ | paulo_ouriques, it's based on the user/ section | 00:46 |
| mgedmin | you could do that with dpkg-query, I suppose | 00:46 |
| * qwerty12_N810 begins installing libgtk2.0-dev on the N900. Yay for the device having newer components than the SDK! | 00:47 | |
| paulo_ouriques | how i filter it? | 00:47 |
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| * mgedmin sighs at the incredible disk-grinding slowness of dpkg -S | 00:47 | |
| mgedmin | oh, cool, dpkg-query is part of dpkg | 00:47 |
| mgedmin | I thought it was some perl addon | 00:48 |
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| lardman | evening all | 00:48 |
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| crashanddie_ | o/ lardman | 00:49 |
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| mgedmin | here goes ... | 00:50 |
| lardman | hey crashanddie_, how's Python? | 00:50 |
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| mgedmin | if I suddenly drop off irc (after the obligatory 5 minute timeout), means insmod iptable_nat.ko b0rked my device | 00:50 |
| * lardman covers his ears and wonders what mgedmin is doing.... | 00:50 | |
| lcuk2 | hey lardman \o | 00:51 |
| lardman | ah :) | 00:51 |
| lardman | hi lcuk2 | 00:51 |
| mgedmin | yay Unknown symbol in module | 00:51 |
| crashanddie_ | lardman, going | 00:51 |
| lcuk2 | hows you today | 00:51 |
| mgedmin | now all I need is to figure out the right order | 00:51 |
| lardman | lcuk2: good, done some exercise, now drinking wine | 00:51 |
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| guysoft42 | how can you switch modes in sb2? it keeps saying: SB2: apt-get wrapper: Operation denied in this mode (devel) | 00:52 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | guysoft42: See why I prefer SB1? :) | 00:52 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, yes yes, i know | 00:52 |
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| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, i think its with -m | 00:52 |
| lcuk2 | lardman, wine is good | 00:54 |
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| mgedmin_ | okay, this particular kernel panic was my fault | 00:57 |
| zerojayN900 | heh | 00:58 |
| lardman | hi zerojayN900 | 00:58 |
| paulo_ouriques | How i filter the output of dpkg --get-selections to user/*? | 00:59 |
| lardman | grep the output? | 00:59 |
| paulo_ouriques | yos | 00:59 |
| paulo_ouriques | *yes | 01:00 |
| mgedmin_ | --selections doesn't show sections | 01:00 |
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| mgedmin_ | dpkg-query is a better choice | 01:00 |
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| mgedmin_ | paulo_ouriques: read the manual page of dpkg-query and craft the appropriate query | 01:00 |
| mgedmin_ | match on status being installed and on section starting with user/ | 01:00 |
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| * qwerty12_N810 points out that maemo-list-user-packages exists for exactly that purpose | 01:00 | |
| absolute | ie "man dpkg-query" | 01:01 |
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| * lardman wonders where he got a second N810/N900 cable from | 01:01 | |
| paulo_ouriques | i'll be do it, thanks. | 01:01 |
| mgedmin_ | qwerty12_N810: bingo! | 01:01 |
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| mgedmin_ | but does it show available or installed packages? | 01:02 |
| mgedmin_ | installed, looks like | 01:02 |
| qwerty12_N810 | It's a script, go edit it :p | 01:02 |
| lardman | hey qwerty12_N810, how are you? | 01:02 |
| absolute | hehe, i don't like relying too heavily on distro-specific stuff personally | 01:02 |
| mgedmin_ | and it does use dpkg-query, proving that I was right by suggesting that tool | 01:02 |
| absolute | but definitely worth checking out the commands in the script | 01:03 |
| absolute | to know how to do it across distros | 01:03 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hiya, lardman, I'm good thanks, how about you? | 01:03 |
| mgedmin_ | hey, absolute, the "user/" prefix for sections *is* distro-specific stuff | 01:03 |
| mgedmin_ | only maemo does that | 01:03 |
| mgedmin_ | afaik | 01:03 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: not bad thanks | 01:03 |
| absolute | yeah, i suppose that part is true | 01:04 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Gotten libdmtx in -devel yet? | 01:04 |
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| absolute | i just mean, its advantageous to understand the underlying commands because that can be re-used elsewhere | 01:05 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: I think so, should be there now | 01:06 |
| mgedmin_ | that's a good attitude to have | 01:06 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: Cool, get lardcode there and you'll save RST38h from banging his head :p | 01:07 |
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| lardman | qwerty12_N810: will do, am just splitting the code up into diablo/N8x0 and fremantle/n900 specific so I can add the libgdigicam and fremantle ui stuff | 01:08 |
| lardman | without too many #ifdefs that is | 01:08 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Is libgdigicam even in the SDK repository? I saw it on gitorious, at least... | 01:09 |
| crashanddie_ | anyone know if promiscuous mode is supported on maemo5? | 01:09 |
| crashanddie_ | or well, the driver for wifi in the n900? | 01:09 |
| mgedmin_ | master mode isn't | 01:09 |
| lcuk | :D | 01:09 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: no idea, bridges and crossing when we get to them come to mind ;) | 01:10 |
| lcuk | lardman, did you see the 3 streams available for the camera | 01:10 |
| pupnik_ | wut | 01:10 |
| zerojayN900 | lardman: hey | 01:10 |
| pupnik_ | show | 01:10 |
| lardman | crashanddie_: yeah, write a maemo version of driftnet :) | 01:10 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: Good strategy... | 01:10 |
| lcuk | viewfinder, cam, movie | 01:10 |
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| mgedmin_ | fyi apt-cache search libgdigicam finds 0 results in the fremantle sdk | 01:10 |
| lardman | lcuk: yep thanks | 01:10 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Thanks, mgedmin_ | 01:10 |
| lcuk | lardman, so that means we are taking full res pics at the moment | 01:11 |
| lardman | for whoever organises the next summit, have a PC running driftnet somewhere, would be cool :) | 01:11 |
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| lcuk | which explains the difference between rendering on barcode and rendering on the viewfinder | 01:11 |
| lardman | lcuk: yeah, but I use a caps to scale them down | 01:11 |
| mgedmin_ | heh lardman | 01:11 |
| lardman | :) | 01:11 |
| zerojayN900 | driftnet? | 01:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: With someone accessing goatse? | 01:11 |
| crashanddie_ | lardman, driftnet is lame :P | 01:11 |
| lardman | ~google ;) | 01:11 |
| lcuk | lardman, yeah - but the viewfinder is more realtime oriented | 01:12 |
| lardman | crashanddie_: but your app will be better.... ;p | 01:12 |
| lcuk | without scaling back down | 01:12 |
| lardman | lcuk: yep, would make more sense to use that | 01:12 |
| lcuk | note the difference in refresh rate and wobblyness | 01:12 |
| crashanddie_ | lardman, I'll make renderman proud | 01:12 |
| * mgedmin_ is keeping his n900 pretty warm | 01:12 | |
| lardman | :) | 01:12 |
| lardman | mgedmin_: wifi power saving off...? | 01:13 |
| lardman | keep the whole room warm that way | 01:13 |
| mgedmin_ | charger on + lots of usage | 01:13 |
| mgedmin_ | and yeah, the room could use some heating | 01:13 |
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| absolute | I hear foreplay works well if you're looking for promiscuous mode :-x | 01:14 |
| lardman | bada-boom! | 01:14 |
| lcuk | mgedmin_, play videos of a warm open fire | 01:14 |
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| mgedmin_ | extensions/libipt_string.c:208: error: 'struct xt_string_info' has no member named 'invert' | 01:15 |
| mgedmin_ | no iptables userspace for me :( | 01:15 |
| mgedmin_ | defeated at both fronts :( | 01:16 |
| mgedmin_ | will have to get my internet fix through five dirty socks ... | 01:16 |
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| * lardman is slightly concerned for mgedmin_ | 01:17 | |
| ali1234 | mgedmin_: i suggest using socks proxy over openssh | 01:18 |
| * qwerty12_N810 's router problems pale in comparison | 01:18 | |
| * w00t seriously cannot wait. | 01:18 | |
| mgedmin_ | ali1234: helloo? how do you think I'm talking to you here? | 01:18 |
| ali1234 | well there you go :) | 01:18 |
| mgedmin_ | socks suck | 01:18 |
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| mgedmin_ | the LD_PRELOAD based wrapper doesn't work in scratchbox for one | 01:18 |
| mgedmin_ | I have to apt-get --print-uris, then wget them to the right places | 01:19 |
| mgedmin_ | pain | 01:19 |
| mgedmin_ | not to mention reconfiguring the browser every time I switch nets | 01:19 |
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| ali1234 | well, that's scratchbox's fault | 01:19 |
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| smackpotat | how much were the developer discounted n900's | 01:23 |
| GAN900 | $370 | 01:24 |
| pupnik_ | ty for that apt-get --print-uris tip | 01:24 |
| GAN900 | 0r around €300 for more European countries. | 01:24 |
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| crashanddie_ | GAN900, more european than the US? | 01:25 |
| ali1234 | mgedmin_: why don't you use pc suite mode on usb? | 01:25 |
| crashanddie_ | GAN900, isn't that like the article about obama being the most european president ever, and obama being the least european president ever? | 01:25 |
| mgedmin_ | ali1234: cables are for hobos | 01:25 |
| mgedmin_ | as one of my facebook friends recently said to me | 01:26 |
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| crashanddie_ | mgedmin_, wireless is for cancer | 01:27 |
| mgedmin_ | yummy | 01:27 |
| mgedmin_ | get on the internet while keeping your coffee warm at the same time! | 01:27 |
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| zerojay | You won't believe how many bums I see with a trail of Cat5 behind them. | 01:28 |
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| lardman | I'm rather hungry, rather fancy some bacon | 01:29 |
| lcuk | i had to give the cats bacon | 01:29 |
| lcuk | we had no catfood and i was afraid they would start gnawing on my leg in the night | 01:29 |
| lardman | what a waste | 01:29 |
| lardman | ! | 01:29 |
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| lardman | I'd have shot them instead of wasting bacon | 01:30 |
| lardman | but I don't like cats | 01:30 |
| lardman | and I do like bacon | 01:30 |
| lardman | so I may alienate some people here now :) | 01:30 |
| lcuk | haha | 01:30 |
| lcuk | you could even make little rashers out of the cats themselves :O | 01:30 |
| * mgedmin_ likes cats and thinks bacon is inedible | 01:31 | |
| * lcuk has 3 cats :) | 01:31 | |
| lcuk | and likes to live | 01:31 |
| lcuk | so it was either me or the bacon | 01:31 |
| lardman | lol | 01:31 |
| lardman | hmm, no bacon in the fridge, am tucking into a nearly out-of-date bag of "wild rocket" | 01:32 |
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| lcuk | lardman, as long as its not turned to mush it cant be out of date | 01:32 |
| lcuk | just start worrying when it starts growing again | 01:32 |
| lardman | 70g "wild rocket" ~= 1x sniff of bacon | 01:32 |
| lardman | yeah growing and turning purple | 01:33 |
| lcuk | hah | 01:33 |
| pupnik_ | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php | 01:33 |
| pupnik_ | 404! | 01:33 |
| pupnik_ | :) | 01:33 |
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| pupnik_ | what is wild rocket anyway | 01:34 |
| SpeedEvil | HMM | 01:34 |
| zerojay | Anyone out there agree with my assessment? - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33131&goto=newpost | 01:34 |
| * SpeedEvil notices that on some cashback websites, the first year of a phone is actually free, with 1G of phone per month, and moderate (300 mins) per month | 01:35 | |
| lardman | pupnik: peppery type of salad leaf | 01:35 |
| SpeedEvil | (uk) | 01:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | Isn't rocket a cultivar - it's not a naturally occuring lettuce? | 01:35 |
| kynky | SpeedEvil, for n900? where ? | 01:36 |
| mgedmin_ | tcl/tk on a n810? not a good idea | 01:36 |
| ifreq | has anyone counted how many ppl will brick their phones @1st week after official release | 01:36 |
| ifreq | :-) | 01:36 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: no idea | 01:36 |
| lardman | mgedmin_: what the compiling it? | 01:37 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: no - but | 01:37 |
| mgedmin_ | ^ zerojay's link | 01:37 |
| zerojay | mgedmin_: tcl/tk is a bad idea in ANY case anyways. | 01:37 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: http://www.onecompare.com/buy-a-mobile-phone/best-mobile-phone-deals.asp?skn=moneysavingexpert&SearchID=1220181&manufacturer=&model= - I don't know if this works for you | 01:37 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: I selected a nokia 1208 - with the assumption that I'd pick it on ebay | 01:37 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: sell it | 01:37 |
| kynky | zerojay, tk is nice | 01:38 |
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| ali1234 | tkinter has the least dependencies of any python gui library | 01:38 |
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| lardman | and features....? | 01:38 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: Combi £25 plus web n walk promo 12 Month Contract - and you get most of the line rental back in 5 equal cheques. | 01:39 |
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| ali1234 | features wise it is very basic, that also makes it easy to learn | 01:39 |
| kynky | sweet, just make sure you dont get caught out | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: that's the big problem, yes | 01:39 |
| * mgedmin_ wonders about the size of people who bash tcl/tk but love git | 01:39 | |
| * mgedmin_ also wonders about their views on gitk | 01:40 | |
| pupnik_ | hahaha @ zerojay 's link | 01:40 |
| hardaker2 | I hate tcl/Tk and think the world should be moving to wxwidgets or, failing that, qt/gtk but i also think that gitk could use a serious UI improvement. It *looks* like it's written in Tk ;-) | 01:41 |
| kynky | tk supports native widgets now, and is only official toolkit for ruby, and tk support is there for practically every language, and works with lots of OSes | 01:41 |
| zerojay | I wouldn't wish tcl/tk on my worst enemy. | 01:41 |
| ali1234 | wxwidgets is horrible horrible programming environment | 01:41 |
| hardaker2 | ali1234: It's, um, odd... | 01:41 |
| hardaker2 | but I wouldn't say horrible. | 01:41 |
| w00t | zerojay: because i'm in a bit of a meta mood, thanks for the thanks! | 01:41 |
| ali1234 | qt is odd. qx is horrible. | 01:41 |
| w00t | ;) | 01:41 |
| hardaker2 | it takes a bit of getting used to, but once you are I actually think it's ok. | 01:41 |
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| kynky | fltk2 looks good | 01:42 |
| hardaker2 | I'm always amazed at how impossible people make GUI languages. Have you ever seen one that doesn't suck? | 01:42 |
| kynky | but gtk and qt are the big2 | 01:42 |
| ali1234 | tkinter doesn't suck, but that might be just cos of python hiding all the suckyness | 01:42 |
| w00t | everything has rough edges, hardaker2 | 01:42 |
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| ali1234 | but yeah, most gui toolkits are a nightmare | 01:43 |
| zerojay | All those smaller UI languages just end up being horrible dependency hells with random amounts of breakage. | 01:43 |
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| hardaker2 | w00t: no, it more has to do by design. by design they're a pain to use. | 01:43 |
| w00t | it's also important to realise that different people have different needs and workflows | 01:43 |
| w00t | nah | 01:43 |
| w00t | nobody sets out to make something a pain in the ass :p | 01:43 |
| w00t | well, unless they are masochists | 01:43 |
| kynky | if ui was easy, lots of ppl would be out of job, but now a big push to webapps at the mo | 01:43 |
| hardaker2 | for 99% of the GUI stuff you need you shouldn't have to learn what a packer even is. It should be the default to be able to create simple windows. | 01:43 |
| w00t | hardaker2: the UI doesn't know that you want stuff top left aligned with the button on the right hand side of the textbox | 01:44 |
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| w00t | you need to tell it that | 01:44 |
| w00t | but declarative UI (for example) or qt creator makes that process a lot easier anyway | 01:44 |
| hardaker2 | actually, the web shows you that it's simplicity in language is what has helped it the most. <form> <input type="..."></input>. *that* is how simple everything should be in it's default form. | 01:45 |
| * lcuk is pleased i finally found the proper way to show liqbase engine | 01:45 | |
| kynky | glade? althoughive never used it | 01:45 |
| crashanddie_ | lol https://www.google.com/voice/fm/04807385505702370642/AHwOX_CFSs6rxsKN6d5wEznZyECtNntLn-O39x8W0KU3lE7CrAXz1IOHsoIn1Ir2q0xuWyAQpl1ssu6vW3Zfbx19y_0omVoyu-eJ5icOdpiSj2okVIYghiJdCsBX0KTaS425DnP6BVw5g2PhNCKiRa2d5FXytb59BA | 01:45 |
| w00t | hardaker2: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/05/13/qt-declarative-ui/ | 01:45 |
| ali1234 | hardaker2: that's where xml dialogs come into it | 01:45 |
| * lcuk uses visual basic to create form layouts on maemo | 01:45 | |
| lardman | phew, managed to split code up | 01:45 |
| w00t | lcuk: never tried creator? | 01:46 |
| w00t | it's pretty easy after a few minutes of adapting | 01:46 |
| lcuk | w00t, creator doesnt help me today | 01:46 |
| lcuk | it WILL | 01:46 |
| w00t | hm | 01:46 |
| kynky | hardaker2, i just hate the javascript, and browser inconsistencies, but jquery does help | 01:46 |
| w00t | why? | 01:46 |
| lcuk | but it just doesnt now | 01:46 |
| hardaker2 | w00t: interesting. Though, it should be the default not the extension :-) | 01:46 |
| lcuk | ok, look at this | 01:46 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGUKICDeok | 01:46 |
| w00t | hardaker2: it's new, give it time | 01:46 |
| lcuk | the presentation i fly through | 01:46 |
| hardaker2 | kynky: I hear ya on the JS issues and stuff... | 01:46 |
| lcuk | is just a visual basic project | 01:46 |
| w00t | lcuk: cheating! :P | 01:47 |
| lcuk | no | 01:47 |
| lcuk | no cheating | 01:47 |
| mgedmin_ | oh yay a toolkit flame | 01:47 |
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| lcuk | 100% dynamic load and use | 01:47 |
| lcuk | reads .vbp | 01:47 |
| w00t | I'm yanking your chain anyway ;) | 01:47 |
| lcuk | reads the .frm | 01:47 |
| w00t | mgedmin_: that was a flame? | 01:47 |
| lcuk | shows em | 01:47 |
| w00t | my god, where have you been for the real flamewars | 01:48 |
| w00t | :P | 01:48 |
| * hardaker2 puts down the very small match. | 01:48 | |
| kynky | i do agree with zerojay , tcl is crazy :) | 01:48 |
| * w00t mentions that emacs sucks and casually wanders off | 01:48 | |
| lcuk | w00t, have you seen the recursion on the engine ;) | 01:48 |
| * lardman whips out some bottles and rags | 01:48 | |
| lcuk | and the speed | 01:48 |
| zerojay | In the past, people used to get stuck in wells. | 01:50 |
| zerojay | Today, people get stuck in... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCHteZnFA3E | 01:50 |
| lcuk | w00t, i would like to make a qt widget using liqcell as its core ;) | 01:50 |
| w00t | it'd be quite possible from looking at the video | 01:50 |
| w00t | scale items in a graphicsscene | 01:51 |
| w00t | I was playing with similar tricks earlier for qmantle's appswitcher too | 01:51 |
| lcuk | why scale? | 01:51 |
| lcuk | the same widget might be shown on screen at any one time in more than one size | 01:51 |
| w00t | sure, and I'm sure you can do that | 01:51 |
| w00t | but you do already have the issue of going from having a huge overview of different bits and pieces to zooming in on one widget, yes? | 01:52 |
| lcuk | no | 01:52 |
| lcuk | no scaling going on | 01:52 |
| w00t | uh | 01:52 |
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| w00t | so you're not zooming in to look at the widget? | 01:52 |
| lcuk | the engine just says "render you (800,480) into this space here (100,100) | 01:52 |
| w00t | that's exactly what scaling is | 01:52 |
| lcuk | and it just always does the best it can | 01:53 |
| lcuk | it doesnt scale the widget | 01:53 |
| lcuk | it just draws it as required | 01:53 |
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| lcuk | no cos scaling implied resize signals | 01:53 |
| w00t | no, it doesn't | 01:54 |
| w00t | it's the graphical item you're scaling | 01:54 |
| w00t | not the widget | 01:54 |
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| w00t | i gotta run off to bed anyhow | 01:54 |
| w00t | work tomorrow :-( | 01:54 |
| lcuk | :( | 01:55 |
| * lcuk wishes he was too | 01:55 | |
| lcuk | gnite | 01:55 |
| w00t | hit me up tomorrow, we can talk more then | 01:55 |
| * lcuk nods | 01:55 | |
| lcuk | this works well on 8x0 | 01:55 |
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| b-man17 | hay xnt14 :) | 02:07 |
| xnt14 | hi :) | 02:07 |
| b-man17 | http://b-man.xceleo.org/images/fremantle :) | 02:08 |
| Firebird | hurray | 02:08 |
| pupnik_ | ??? | 02:08 |
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| pupnik_ | nice b-man17 | 02:09 |
| b-man17 | thanks :) | 02:09 |
| xnt14 | awesome :) | 02:09 |
| b-man17 | i still need to figure out how i can add/delete items :( | 02:09 |
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| pupnik_ | somehow my experiments replacing bootsplash on n810 failed | 02:10 |
| pupnik_ | i would see it for an instant before desktop | 02:10 |
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| Andril | mmmm n810 talk :) | 02:19 |
| * lcuk likes n810 | 02:22 | |
| Xisdibik | b-man17: did you make that? | 02:23 |
| b-man17 | yu | 02:25 |
| b-man17 | *yup | 02:25 |
| b-man17 | (it´s still in early development) | 02:26 |
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| Xisdibik | looks nice | 02:29 |
| lcuk | nice b-man17 :) | 02:29 |
| lcuk | great start | 02:29 |
| lcuk | have you posted on tmo? | 02:30 |
| b-man17 | tmo? | 02:30 |
| Xisdibik | tmobile | 02:30 |
| lcuk | im sure people will jump on board | 02:30 |
| lcuk | theres a lot of interest in the bootsplash | 02:30 |
| lcuk | talk.maemo.org | 02:30 |
| lcuk | they will help you to fill in the blanks | 02:30 |
| b-man17 | yup :) | 02:30 |
| lcuk | thread? | 02:30 |
| * b-man17 grabs the link... | 02:30 | |
| lcuk | :) | 02:30 |
| b-man17 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33000 | 02:31 |
| b-man17 | :) | 02:31 |
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| lcuk | b-man17, great stuff :D | 02:34 |
| b-man17 | thanks :D | 02:34 |
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| b-man17 | lcuk: btw, is the source for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r8JJkDv7hw&feature=related publicly available? | 02:37 |
| lcuk | i believe it is | 02:37 |
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| lcuk | the controller is already available had been for ages | 02:37 |
| Xisdibik | b-man17: how long is a bootsplash usually? | 02:38 |
| lcuk | as long as the video | 02:38 |
| lcuk | just dont be silly | 02:38 |
| lcuk | we dont know if theres any way to interupt it | 02:38 |
| lcuk | actually b-man17 .... | 02:39 |
| lcuk | might be an idea to put an upper limit just on filesize | 02:39 |
| lcuk | to prevent that | 02:39 |
| lcuk | no point in opening full vid | 02:39 |
| b-man17 | true | 02:39 |
| lcuk | just to stop random "oops i have to play a dvd before booting" | 02:39 |
| b-man17 | lol | 02:39 |
| lcuk | would be interesting ploy from the media executives in hollywood | 02:40 |
| lcuk | "omg they HAVE to watch it now!!!! | 02:40 |
| pupnik_ | hmm | 02:41 |
| pupnik_ | we could do virtual graffitti | 02:41 |
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| pupnik_ | agps + orientation and device learns orientation of a wall | 02:41 |
| b-man17 | lcuk: the avi´s arn´t any longer than this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuBHDnpSFE0 ;) | 02:41 |
| pupnik_ | you could leave messages for people scrawled on fridges, desktops, walls | 02:41 |
| pupnik_ | and they would have to hold device up to it to read it | 02:41 |
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| ali1234 | except n900 doesn't have a compass | 02:42 |
| b-man17 | gps can fit that (kinda) | 02:42 |
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| absolute | close enough :) | 02:42 |
| lcuk | pupnik, cheap enough to just but simple n800/smartq devices up and use liqbase | 02:42 |
| absolute | if you really need a compass, you're not gonna be relying on a phone anyways | 02:42 |
| lcuk | put | 02:43 |
| absolute | I'm buying a military surplus lensatic compass on friday :) | 02:43 |
| Xisdibik | lcuk, yea i understand its any length you want (unless he puts a filesize cap) | 02:43 |
| Xisdibik | but like how long is the generic nokia one <<< doesnt have a Nxxx | 02:43 |
| ali1234 | not long | 02:44 |
| b-man17 | absolute: nice | 02:44 |
| ali1234 | but i have to wonder if i replace it with a 1 frame video, will it boot quicker? (like that longstanding bug with kde startup sound) | 02:44 |
| absolute | military surplus is good for random outdoorsy things | 02:45 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, it may do | 02:45 |
| lcuk | just disable all | 02:45 |
| lcuk | will be better | 02:45 |
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| lcuk | if the device can avoid reading and rendering that video - it will obviously finish all its tasks quicker than if it was working | 02:45 |
| ali1234 | obviously | 02:45 |
| lcuk | whether the boot will appear to be quicker is another matter | 02:46 |
| ali1234 | but does it even play it asynchronously? | 02:46 |
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| lcuk | or whether it will just sit idle expecting something | 02:46 |
| lcuk | dunno | 02:46 |
| ali1234 | or does it stop doing everything else for the duration of that clip? | 02:46 |
| lcuk | it might be at a point in the normal boot sequence where theres a pause anyway | 02:46 |
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| * lcuk shrugs | 02:46 | |
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| ali1234 | there's never a pause when booting on arm, at least there should not be | 02:47 |
| * b-man17 gives in and and posts another GTK related question on talk.maemo.org >< | 02:47 | |
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| b-man17 | (still trying to figure out how to add/remove elements) | 02:48 |
| b-man17 | in a selection | 02:49 |
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| lardman | night all | 02:55 |
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| * luke-jr learned something new today: | 02:56 | |
| luke-jr | USA does not have SIM cards period :/ | 02:56 |
| iei | period? | 02:57 |
| absolute | wtf? | 02:57 |
| absolute | says who | 02:57 |
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| absolute | unless this is a fake sim card, you've been lied to | 02:58 |
| luke-jr | the one place I'd expect to carry them, WalMart, has none | 02:58 |
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| absolute | my phone definitely has a sim card in it... i got this one from cingular before at&t bought them out | 02:59 |
| luke-jr | everything I thought was a SIM card was just a piece of plastic with an "activation code" on it | 03:00 |
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| absolute | hehe, prepaid phone cards | 03:03 |
| zash | SIM-cards is a GSM thing | 03:03 |
| zash | that lets you auth against a GSM network, and it has some storage for contacts | 03:04 |
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| lcuk | luke-jr, hi | 03:05 |
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| absolute | zash: i understand, but what luke-jr was looking at in the wal-mart were likely pre-paid phone cards | 03:08 |
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| GAN900 | zerojay, remembered tonight! | 03:09 |
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| Xisdibik | i didnt GAN900 | 03:13 |
| Xisdibik | whats happening tonight? | 03:13 |
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| GAN900 | I remembered to photograph my dinner for Maemo EATS! on Flickr. | 03:16 |
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| luke-jr | lcuk: hi | 03:20 |
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| RobertH[AU] | yay i have octave compiling on the sdk right now :) | 03:28 |
| RobertH[AU] | is the wiki the best place to document how i installed it for others? | 03:30 |
| zerojay | GAN900: Me too. :D | 03:31 |
| zerojay | luke-jr: US definitely has SIM cards. | 03:31 |
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| luke-jr | zerojay: where? | 03:35 |
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| zerojay | luke-jr: Almost any phone company will sell you one for $25. | 03:36 |
| luke-jr | wtf? | 03:36 |
| luke-jr | why would you pay for a SIM card? | 03:36 |
| zerojay | You're the one that wants one, so you tell me. | 03:36 |
| luke-jr | isn't it just a piece of plastic with a bit of electronics that enables them to sell you minutes? | 03:37 |
| zerojay | Yep. | 03:37 |
| luke-jr | I was expecting to walk into WalMart, pick up a SIM card, and load $5 onto it. | 03:37 |
| zerojay | My company had to pay $30/SIM for them... and we had maybe 40 of them... 20 of them were active... I think we paid something like $10k per month. | 03:37 |
| luke-jr | wtf | 03:38 |
| zerojay | We were doing something like 30GB of data per card. | 03:38 |
| zerojay | I'm not talking about company phones but phones and SIMs we used for QA on our cell phone games. | 03:39 |
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| till- | o2 germany offers up to four prepaid sim cards for free | 03:49 |
| till- | and provides one month free umts | 03:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | It'd be so nice if you could use multiple SIMs | 04:11 |
| dotblank | you have tmo and at&t? | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm in the UK - one provider offers free skype and MSN | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | And so on | 04:14 |
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| pupnik__ | i only need OTG data occasionally | 04:22 |
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| pupnik | moo | 04:48 |
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| code177 | yo | 05:59 |
| code177 | I have a pygtk question which is driving me crazy. if i have an iconview full of thumbnails, how the hell do i make it so when you click on one, it calls a function and passes the relevent data | 06:01 |
| code177 | i feel like i | 06:01 |
| code177 | have tried everything | 06:01 |
| code177 | the closest I've gotten is calling iconview.connect("button-press-event", self.function, userdata) | 06:01 |
| code177 | but all that does is send the userdata from the last thumbnail appended >.< | 06:02 |
| code177 | so. does anyone have any ideas | 06:02 |
| code177 | ? | 06:02 |
| pupnik | maybe | 06:02 |
| code177 | okay... | 06:04 |
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| lcuk | code177, http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pygtktutorial/advancedwidgets/ | 06:05 |
| lcuk | looks like a great example | 06:05 |
| * code177 reads | 06:06 | |
| lcuk | o_O maybe not | 06:07 |
| lcuk | that does multiselect | 06:07 |
| lcuk | and doesnt try to identify click | 06:07 |
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| code177 | hmm | 06:09 |
| code177 | all i need to do is call a function with the thumbnail id | 06:09 |
| pupnik | maybe pygtk is incomplete? | 06:09 |
| code177 | who knew that would be so difficult | 06:09 |
| pupnik | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php meh :( | 06:10 |
| code177 | can you put an eventbox in a liststore? | 06:11 |
| code177 | oh nevermind. then i'd be back to square one | 06:12 |
| code177 | hmmm | 06:12 |
| lcuk | whay are you trying to do | 06:13 |
| lcuk | ie what icons etc | 06:13 |
| lcuk | maybe there is an alternative | 06:13 |
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| code177 | well I'm building this wallpaper manager that runs off n900wallpapers.com, right | 06:13 |
| code177 | so i have my thumbnails in an iconview as pixbufs | 06:14 |
| lcuk | the one b-man and co are hacking at | 06:14 |
| code177 | hmm? | 06:14 |
| code177 | so in order to get to the window for individual wallpaper i'm going to need the id | 06:15 |
| *** dreamer__ has joined #maemo | 06:15 | |
| code177 | also, who's hacking at what now? | 06:15 |
| lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33000 | 06:16 |
| lcuk | had to find the thread | 06:16 |
| lcuk | i think you guys are together | 06:16 |
| lcuk | if not, you should be :P | 06:17 |
| lcuk | ahhh wallpaprts | 06:17 |
| code177 | ya lol | 06:17 |
| lcuk | and startup screens! | 06:17 |
| lcuk | still | 06:17 |
| code177 | ! | 06:17 |
| code177 | yes | 06:17 |
| lcuk | dont double up on code | 06:17 |
| code177 | eventually the two will come together im sure | 06:17 |
| lcuk | its basically the same thing | 06:17 |
| lcuk | talk about how each other are implementing it and share ideas | 06:17 |
| lcuk | and make the best of both | 06:17 |
| lcuk | have you seen the liqbase image selector? | 06:18 |
| code177 | well.. looking at what they're up to it seems pretty different at the moment | 06:18 |
| code177 | aside from selecting images.. | 06:18 |
| code177 | nope.. should i? | 06:18 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjDEvXueO0I | 06:18 |
| lcuk | this is the graffiti wall | 06:19 |
| lcuk | ill find a bit with image select in ;) | 06:19 |
| code177 | ooh yeah | 06:19 |
| code177 | i saw that earlier | 06:19 |
| code177 | anyhow, this doesn't solve my initial issue ;) | 06:20 |
| lcuk | hehe i know | 06:20 |
| code177 | this should be really simple | 06:20 |
| code177 | i think i must be missing something | 06:20 |
| lcuk | whats the actual iconview class called | 06:20 |
| lcuk | is it just iconview | 06:20 |
| code177 | yeah | 06:21 |
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| code177 | model = gtkListStore(gtk.gdk.Pixbuf) | 06:21 |
| code177 | gallery = gtk.IconView(model) | 06:21 |
| code177 | with some model.append in between | 06:21 |
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| BBNS | ello ello | 06:23 |
| BBNS | looks like 'N900 shipping' thread is gonna burst. | 06:24 |
| microlith | probably | 06:24 |
| microlith | what with almost doubling its post count in less than a week | 06:24 |
| BBNS | sooon .... ya shall be granted! | 06:25 |
| pupnik | i'm surprised t.m.o has gotten so many users | 06:26 |
| pupnik | that is nice | 06:26 |
| lcuk | In the on_item_activated() method, we react to an event, which is generated, when we click on a icon from the icon view widget. | 06:26 |
| pupnik | well 'so many' is subjective | 06:26 |
| lcuk | http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pygtktutorial/advancedwidgets/ | 06:26 |
| lcuk | same page as before | 06:26 |
| lcuk | it was there | 06:26 |
| lcuk | just hiding | 06:26 |
| lcuk | code177, ^ | 06:27 |
| code177 | yeah i'm staring at that right now, coincidentally | 06:27 |
| microlith | pupnik: N900 is pretty big, its announcement came at just the right time | 06:27 |
| code177 | what i dont get: | 06:27 |
| lcuk | lol | 06:27 |
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| code177 | are path and isDir setting from each individual icon, or somewhere else? | 06:28 |
| microlith | there's still no equivalent GSM android phone that I'm aware of | 06:28 |
| code177 | i'm not seeing it | 06:28 |
| code177 | maybe i've been staring at the screen too long | 06:28 |
| lcuk | perhaps you have | 06:28 |
| lcuk | i know i have | 06:28 |
| BBNS | microlith, i can't imagine myself writing shader code on droid. =P | 06:28 |
| pupnik | i think the device is pretty much as close to perfect as i'd hoped-for | 06:29 |
| Solarion | BBNS: can you write shader code on n900? | 06:29 |
| BBNS | Solarion, yep | 06:29 |
| Solarion | w00t | 06:29 |
| * code177 keeps staring | 06:29 | |
| Solarion | BBNS: I want flops, dangit | 06:29 |
| * Solarion flogs the DSP | 06:29 | |
| BBNS | Solarion, you can write DSP code too. that's a bit hacky. | 06:29 |
| code177 | lcuk: " self.store.append([fl, self.dirIcon, True])" - what's going on here? | 06:30 |
| * lcuk offers code177 some bacon | 06:30 | |
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| Solarion | hacky wrt what? | 06:30 |
| lcuk | i dunno | 06:30 |
| code177 | hmm | 06:30 |
| lcuk | i dont write gtk | 06:30 |
| Solarion | lcuk: push button? | 06:30 |
| * code177 looks up .append again | 06:30 | |
| code177 | lcuk: aw. I've only been writing it for.. 2 days | 06:30 |
| lcuk | receive bacon | 06:30 |
| Solarion | lcuk: :) | 06:30 |
| Solarion | BBNS: is likely less hacky than trying to do GPGPU with shader code (though I'd dearly love to try....) | 06:30 |
| Solarion | DSP + shader = win? | 06:31 |
| BBNS | Solarion, GPGPU on N900 is easy. | 06:31 |
| Solarion | oh? | 06:31 |
| pupnik | folding@pocket | 06:31 |
| dmj7261 | What do people think about the WoG thing? | 06:31 |
| Solarion | DANGITIWANTONESOBADLYNOW | 06:31 |
| BBNS | Solarion, DSP i am not sure. you could use OpenMax or Gstreamer dsp plug-in | 06:31 |
| dmj7261 | Solarion: join the club | 06:32 |
| Solarion | BBNS: there's an interface into it | 06:32 |
| Solarion | dmj7261: I don't get discount. :( | 06:32 |
| Solarion | I have crappy pay | 06:32 |
| dmj7261 | I don't get the discount either. | 06:32 |
| Solarion | hopefully it'll come bundled with some carrier. | 06:32 |
| BBNS | i don't have discount too. =P don't be sad. | 06:32 |
| microlith | pupnik: brings new meaning to the phrase "hot pocket" | 06:32 |
| * pupnik lets the slave drop peeled grapes into his mouth as he fondles the n900 | 06:32 | |
| Solarion | dmj7261: let us commiserate | 06:32 |
| code177 | lol | 06:32 |
| Solarion | BBNS: bah, you probably get paid decently | 06:32 |
| dmj7261 | It looks like the one phone I've been looking for for years | 06:32 |
| Solarion | BBNS: do you have link on gpgpu/n900? | 06:33 |
| dmj7261 | iphone (and more and more) android rubbed me wrong | 06:33 |
| cleary | can anyone comment on it's depth? | 06:33 |
| BBNS | Solarion, nope. but you could port some shaders to it. | 06:33 |
| pupnik | what was it about android, dmj7261 ? | 06:33 |
| dmj7261 | never had either, but the restrictions were unacceptable | 06:33 |
| pupnik | k | 06:33 |
| * Solarion calculates the band stucture of InGaAs with pseudopotentials on hs imaginary n900 | 06:33 | |
| cleary | it's roughly 2x fatter than an E71, I'm worried how that sits in your pocket | 06:33 |
| dmj7261 | It wasn't as Linuxy as my Ubuntu | 06:33 |
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| pupnik | smelled wrong to me so i didn't even wander close | 06:34 |
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| Solarion | BBNS: tmk, shaders aren't identical to GPGPU | 06:34 |
| Solarion | they can be hacked into it, but they're not the same | 06:34 |
| * Solarion hasn't actually misused shaders for this, however, so this is hearsay | 06:34 | |
| Solarion | I need to blather less and do more | 06:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is it just me, or does every thread ChristExaport participate in devolve into endless bickering? | 06:34 |
| BBNS | Solarion, it's possible. at least I have wrote some DSP code based on shaders. | 06:34 |
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| Solarion | BBNS: link? | 06:34 |
| pupnik | there are nice n-body simulations of the big-bang done on gpus (youtube etc) | 06:35 |
| Solarion | Is there gonna be an OpenCL ES? :) | 06:35 |
| BBNS | Solarion, no link. just my small toy. | 06:35 |
| Solarion | aww | 06:35 |
| Solarion | can I play with your toy? | 06:35 |
| Solarion | I promise to not not break it. | 06:35 |
| pupnik | the NeXT did fractal rendering on the motorola 56k dsp back around 1992 | 06:35 |
| Solarion | probably | 06:36 |
| Solarion | there's good stuff out there | 06:36 |
| BBNS | Solarion, i don't have it. but you can check "SIFT on GPU" http://www.cs.unc.edu/~ccwu/siftgpu/ | 06:36 |
| Solarion | BBNS: what resource would you recommend to learn OGL ES? | 06:36 |
| * Solarion got the OGL 2 Book (Orange?) back a few years ago | 06:36 | |
| BBNS | I learned from PowerVR SDK. | 06:37 |
| BBNS | there is a OGL ES2 book (purple) | 06:37 |
| BBNS | but there are some errors in the book. | 06:37 |
| BBNS | some codes never compiled correctly. | 06:37 |
| Solarion | hmm | 06:38 |
| Solarion | Is PowerVR SDK generally available? | 06:38 |
| lcuk | its included in the maemo sdk | 06:38 |
| BBNS | yeah, there is one specific for maemo too. | 06:38 |
| lcuk | runs in software on your pc | 06:38 |
| lcuk | and same code on hardware on your device | 06:38 |
| Solarion | ah, cool | 06:39 |
| lcuk | :) theres a virtual image i think even | 06:39 |
| * Solarion has the maemo sdk going | 06:39 | |
| BBNS | http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/sdk/KhronosOpenGLES2xSGX.asp | 06:39 |
| lcuk | yeah, its lookin quite good, not sure on any performance levels | 06:39 |
| Solarion | I just gotta figure out how to get the hardware. :( | 06:39 |
| lcuk | i barely touch the 3d | 06:39 |
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| BBNS | performance is decent i said. | 06:39 |
| lcuk | i know on the device its sweet | 06:40 |
| microlith | Solarion: sit back and wait like the rest of us :) | 06:40 |
| Solarion | microlith: I need cash too | 06:40 |
| microlith | well, I guess longer then :) | 06:40 |
| * lcuk looks for his stylus | 06:40 | |
| Solarion | maybe I can go to the next loaner-hardware group | 06:40 |
| Solarion | gonna wait quite a while. :( | 06:40 |
| BBNS | Solarion, write an app and impress the community then you will get discount. =P | 06:41 |
| lcuk | Solarion, are you near any of the nokia main stores? | 06:41 |
| lcuk | if so, write an app that will knock our socks off and go show it at one of the parties on real hardware :D | 06:41 |
| Solarion | lcuk: probably not | 06:42 |
| lcuk | haha | 06:42 |
| lcuk | what did you want the 3d for then | 06:42 |
| Solarion | lcuk: gpgpu | 06:42 |
| Solarion | BBNS: I have app, but it sucks (yet) | 06:42 |
| Solarion | it shall soon suck less | 06:43 |
| lcuk | what does it do | 06:43 |
| Solarion | lcuk: it displays semiconductor material information in a 2D plot of property x vs y | 06:43 |
| Solarion | I'll include a sample file to help people get it at least run and dipslaying stuff | 06:43 |
| lcuk | is that all gpgpu can do? | 06:44 |
| Solarion | very useful if you're working in semiconductors. :) | 06:44 |
| lcuk | could i use it in liqbase | 06:44 |
| Solarion | No, GPGPU isn't needed | 06:44 |
| lcuk | to do extra fluid dynamics calcs | 06:44 |
| lcuk | still use cpu for rendering | 06:44 |
| Solarion | GPGPU would be used for small-scale computations (say, for instance, the band diagram of a material) | 06:44 |
| lcuk | powervr for the dynamics | 06:44 |
| lcuk | have you seen liqflow? | 06:44 |
| Solarion | nope | 06:45 |
| * Solarion does solid state | 06:45 | |
| Solarion | ah, time's up. Gotta go | 06:45 |
| Solarion | at least cox fixed our network connection. Down with squirrels!! | 06:45 |
| * Solarion & | 06:45 | |
| BBNS | ciao | 06:45 |
| Solarion | (seriously, we need fewer tree rats in the world) | 06:45 |
| lcuk | Solarion, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo#t=5m18s lol | 06:46 |
| lcuk | damn you goin - i would like that with more particles | 06:46 |
| lcuk | if i could do the fluid dynamics itself on gpu, it could be quite interesting | 06:47 |
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| pupnik | " | 06:49 |
| pupnik | At the moment, I can't say much about the secondary (front-facing) camera other than it is there and offers VGA (640x480) resolution for both stills and videos (in H.263 format). " | 06:49 |
| pupnik | http://my-symbian.com/other/preview_n900.php?page=4 | 06:49 |
| pupnik | heh | 06:49 |
| code177 | \o/ | 06:50 |
| code177 | success! | 06:50 |
| code177 | it's really obvious | 06:51 |
| code177 | lol | 06:51 |
| lcuk | haha | 06:52 |
| code177 | here's teh solution: | 06:54 |
| code177 | model = gtk.ListStore(str, gtk.gdk.Pixbuf) # str is going to be our id field | 06:54 |
| code177 | model.append([item['id'], pixbuf_data]) # add to list.. | 06:54 |
| code177 | gallery = gtk.IconView(model) # make it into an icon view | 06:54 |
| code177 | gallery.connect('selection-changed', self.selectThumb, model) # add signal thingy | 06:54 |
| code177 | def selectThumb(self, icon_view, model=None): | 06:54 |
| code177 | selected = icon_view.get_selected_items() | 06:54 |
| code177 | i = selected[0][0] | 06:54 |
| code177 | self.awesomeFunction(model[i][0]) # passes id to our function (opens new window) | 06:54 |
| code177 | done! | 06:54 |
| xnt14 | quit sleep................................xDD | 06:56 |
| xnt14 | err | 06:56 |
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| xnt14 | damn, I meant to type '/quit | 06:56 |
| code177 | heh | 06:56 |
| xnt14 | '*' | 06:56 |
| xnt14 | :P | 06:56 |
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| acidjazz | any update on the n900's shipping? | 07:03 |
| * lcuk sleeps | 07:03 | |
| pupnik | there's a highly cogent, brief and informative thread on it on t.m.o | 07:04 |
| pupnik | or wait, not. | 07:04 |
| acidjazz | whats t.m.o. ? | 07:04 |
| pupnik | gnite lcuk | 07:04 |
| pupnik | talk.maemo.org | 07:04 |
| acidjazz | the maemo forum? | 07:04 |
| acidjazz | the "did your n900 ship today" one? thats turned into nonsense hasnt it? | 07:04 |
| pupnik | i have the scotti bros acid jazz compilation from 1992 i think | 07:04 |
| pupnik | or 91 | 07:04 |
| pupnik | lol yes | 07:04 |
| acidjazz | nice pupnik | 07:05 |
| code177 | damn | 07:05 |
| code177 | you guys really went to down on that gigaom.com "review" | 07:05 |
| code177 | lol | 07:05 |
| code177 | *went to town | 07:05 |
| code177 | ( http://gigaom.com/2009/10/19/nokia-n900/ ) | 07:06 |
| pupnik | can you translate that to old person talk? | 07:06 |
| pupnik | heh nm | 07:06 |
| code177 | lol | 07:06 |
| acidjazz | the gigaom review was written by an apple fanatik | 07:06 |
| pupnik | ty - i would like to see their opinions | 07:06 |
| acidjazz | who really wanted a nokia iphone | 07:06 |
| acidjazz | So how does it stack up against the iPhone 3GS? It is a heavier and thicker and missing the sleekness of the Apple device. | 07:07 |
| acidjazz | how does it stack up against hte iphone? its not a freaking iphone! | 07:07 |
| acidjazz | its got a keyboard! | 07:07 |
| acidjazz | ill translate this too : | 07:07 |
| acidjazz | I am not a great fan of the resistive screen technologies and it is no surprise that I found interacting with the phone via touchscreen extremely painfully. Maybe it is my brain, wired to look for an iPhone like functionality, but N900.s touch features are extremely challenging | 07:07 |
| acidjazz | here he's saying how the n900 is not an iphone | 07:08 |
| acidjazz | and was expecting it to transform into an iphone while playing w/ it | 07:08 |
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| acidjazz | and he has reported that it is still not an iphone nor has it transformed into an iphone while writing his review | 07:08 |
| code177 | tbf all his review did is remind me how much i dont want an iphone | 07:08 |
| acidjazz | exactly | 07:08 |
| code177 | and really impressed upon me the "toy" aspect of the iphone | 07:08 |
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| pupnik | he certainly missed most of the points where n900 absolutely stomps iphone | 07:09 |
| code177 | i have an ipod touch and it's easily the best bit of tech i've bought in years.. but c'mon. iphone/touch and n900 are very different animals | 07:09 |
| pupnik | that hires n900 intro video has absolutely blown everyone away who has seen it on that screen | 07:09 |
| pupnik | 10 pixels per millimeter... | 07:09 |
| zerojay | Om Malik is borderline retarded. | 07:10 |
| zerojay | He spends most of the review saying "it's amazing!" and then 6/10? | 07:10 |
| pupnik | within minutes i was making use of the multitasking | 07:10 |
| pupnik | ... | 07:10 |
| pupnik | completely different workflow | 07:11 |
| * code177 wishes he had an n900 | 07:11 | |
| zerojay | He says almost nothing negative at all but it's clear he worships his iphone. | 07:11 |
| * code177 is saving his pennies | 07:11 | |
| acidjazz | will amazon have nokia ship it to us? or route through an amazon warehouse? | 07:12 |
| zerojay | I've never heard of that before. | 07:14 |
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| * dmj7261 is worried about abusing the multitasking ability of the web browser | 07:20 | |
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| zerojay | dmj7261: There's nothing to worry about at all then. | 07:21 |
| dmj7261 | I've abused this horribly on my netbook. | 07:21 |
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| acidjazz | what opening 100000 windows? | 07:22 |
| dmj7261 | By the way you can run Ubuntu (with compiz)with several pidgin long conversations, a dozen large open office documents, and around a hundred tabs in firefox on a netbook with 1GB ram | 07:23 |
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| dmj7261 | That's not my typical number of tabs but I have used that many before | 07:23 |
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| zerojay | I don't know why anyone would want more than a few tabs open in Firefox at a time anyways. | 07:23 |
| dmj7261 | Short term bookmarks. I'm hoping that I won't carry over those habits to the n900 | 07:24 |
| Solarion | I end up having a bunch of tabs open | 07:24 |
| Solarion | Various threads that I've just left hanging until I get a chance to get back to 'em | 07:25 |
| Solarion | n8 | 07:25 |
| zerojay | I don't think I've ever gone past 8. | 07:25 |
| dmj7261 | That's what I do to. | 07:25 |
| Proteous | 8? amature | 07:26 |
| Proteous | when the tabs on my tab bar get to small I just open up a new window | 07:26 |
| zerojay | Only ever active in maybe 3 at a time. If I have 8 its just because I've been lazy about closing them. | 07:27 |
| Proteous | it's like a breadcrumb trail | 07:27 |
| Proteous | you get to some far off land and are like, "WTF how did I get here and how do I get home." | 07:27 |
| dmj7261 | Yeah, i tend to have multiple pages branch off from a single page, which I open in new tabs | 07:27 |
| Proteous | and how do I find it again! | 07:27 |
| zerojay | Isn't that what your browser history is for? | 07:27 |
| Proteous | boom, tab trail | 07:27 |
| Proteous | browser history is evil | 07:28 |
| zerojay | I think people do shit like that because they just don't realize there are better ways to do things. | 07:28 |
| dmj7261 | Just think, now you can do this on a phone! | 07:28 |
| Proteous | !!! | 07:28 |
| * Proteous explodes | 07:28 | |
| Proteous | i'd be happy with a phone that loads webpages in a reasonable time... | 07:28 |
| zerojay | It does. | 07:29 |
| dmj7261 | In all seriousness I probably won't. That's what my netbook is for. | 07:29 |
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| pupnik | netbook keyboard is more annoying than thumbboard | 07:29 |
| pupnik | back on the A30 here and it is like butter | 07:30 |
| dmj7261 | I've typed 50,000 word docs on my netbook, it's comfortable. | 07:30 |
| dmj7261 | I'm hoping I'll be able to type well on a thumbboard too. | 07:30 |
| dmj7261 | I've never had a phone with qwerty. | 07:31 |
| * dmj7261 has been turning his nose up at phones for too long. | 07:32 | |
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| pupnik | so how is dosbox on n900 | 07:37 |
| tigert | works, but you cannot type :) | 07:37 |
| tigert | last i tried | 07:38 |
| pupnik | i haven't bought a phone yet | 07:38 |
| pupnik | heh ok | 07:38 |
| tigert | but it ran atleast | 07:38 |
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| pupnik | do you know the cpu cache info? | 07:38 |
| tigert | now that developers have devices its likely to improve | 07:38 |
| pupnik | i think omap2420 had 16kb data and inst | 07:38 |
| tigert | no, sorry | 07:38 |
| pupnik | iB | 07:39 |
| tigert | wait | 07:39 |
| pupnik | do you think i should beg for a signed image or wait for the official one | 07:39 |
| tigert | /proc/cpuinfo doesnt say | 07:39 |
| tigert | signed image? | 07:39 |
| pupnik | well some folks can get issued individual images under NDA for flashing n900s | 07:40 |
| tigert | ah | 07:40 |
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| code177 | ok guys | 07:41 |
| pupnik | do you know if flasher can instruct kernel to boot into console? | 07:41 |
| tigert | no | 07:41 |
| tigert | afaik | 07:41 |
| code177 | http://www.mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/rx51-n900/scr/scr33.jpg <-- anyone know how to get a list to look like this? (disregarding the images) | 07:41 |
| pupnik | would be useful | 07:41 |
| pupnik | with pygtk i assume | 07:42 |
| code177 | well that much I have.. | 07:42 |
| tigert | theres serial console but it needs hw | 07:42 |
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| cotigao | hi, does n900 use alsa? | 07:44 |
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| Stskeeps | uses pulseaudio for sure--which alsa can output to? | 07:46 |
| tru | other way around. | 07:47 |
| Stskeeps | well both goes.. pulse has dsp plugins i guess | 07:48 |
| cotigao | Stskeeps, i was just wondering if it using the TI's DASF audio system? | 07:48 |
| cotigao | is it? | 07:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Alright, timeless_mbp, pretty sure I'm passing you on Bugzilla reported next karma recalc. :P | 08:00 |
| tigert | morning, too | 08:06 |
| code177 | GeneralAntilles: I don't suppose _you_ know how that list is made, by any chance? | 08:06 |
| RST38h | mourning indeed | 08:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which list? | 08:07 |
| code177 | http://www.mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/rx51-n900/scr/scr33.jpg | 08:07 |
| RST38h | it is described at the site | 08:07 |
| RST38h | do you mean karma or the screenshot? | 08:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Codewise or? | 08:07 |
| code177 | Yeah - I've been trying to figure this out for a couple of days now. It doesn't appear to be a treeview with 2 columns, if it is, the styling info is... hard to find. | 08:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, dunno. | 08:08 |
| code177 | balls =/ | 08:08 |
| Stskeeps | morning GA | 08:09 |
| code177 | Thanks anyway | 08:09 |
| RST38h | code: it can be owner-drawn | 08:09 |
| * code177 scratches beard | 08:09 | |
| code177 | RST38h: I'm afraid youll have to be more specific. I'm new at this whole app development thing :) | 08:10 |
| RST38h | most toolkits let you draw each list item mnaually | 08:10 |
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| RST38h | where you get a callback with rectangle and draw your list entry in that rectangle, in your own code | 08:11 |
| RST38h | this may be one of these cases | 08:11 |
| code177 | Ah. I'm using Python+GTK | 08:11 |
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| code177 | Thing is, this type of list seems to be all over the screenshots | 08:11 |
| code177 | so i'm figuring there must be some consistency here | 08:12 |
| code177 | and therefore there's a specific way of doing this | 08:12 |
| RST38h | just one place in the system - web bookmarks | 08:12 |
| code177 | i'm trying to find some more good example screenshots | 08:14 |
| tigert | ask on devel mailing list? | 08:14 |
| tigert | and wait a bit | 08:14 |
| tigert | maybe the master layout guide has something | 08:14 |
| * GeneralAntilles likes his blank flickr titles and wishes the sharing plugin would stop insisting on screwing with them. | 08:15 | |
| * RST38h would just like a picasa plugin | 08:15 | |
| tigert | GeneralAntilles: you weirdo :) | 08:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | tigert, some things just don't need titling. | 08:16 |
| tigert | heh | 08:16 |
| code177 | http://www.mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/maemo5/scr/themes/themes4.jpg | 08:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | In those cases, 1857[14357_109512384712847a.jpg isn't any better. ;) | 08:16 |
| code177 | http://www.mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/maemo5/scr/contacts/cont08.jpg <- the phone has it too | 08:17 |
| code177 | sorry, contacts | 08:17 |
| code177 | and the opposite way: http://www.mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/maemo5/scr/contacts/cont04.jpg | 08:17 |
| tigert | darn | 08:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | code177, well, you should be able to grab the theme picker source somewhere. | 08:17 |
| tigert | missed my next tram by ten seconds | 08:17 |
| Stskeeps | while typing on the n900 while walking? ;) | 08:18 |
| * GeneralAntilles hasn't gotten the knack of that yet. | 08:18 | |
| tigert | Stskeeps: yeah | 08:18 |
| tigert | commuting is good time for irc | 08:18 |
| tigert | and for listening to soma.fm :) | 08:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | I did learn that children under 21 are no longer allowed in the movie theater downtown after 10 PM when I nearly tripped over the sign, however. | 08:19 |
| tigert | hehehe | 08:19 |
| tigert | new things you literally bump into! :) | 08:19 |
| code177 | GeneralAntilles: Any idea where? | 08:19 |
| tigert | 2 mins for tram, luckily | 08:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | They replaced the arcade with a bar to try to increase business and stay bankruptcy. <_< | 08:20 |
| tigert | code177: found master layout guide yet? | 08:20 |
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| tigert | code177: I'll search the wiki too, hold a bit | 08:20 |
| RST38h | General: next year they will have a strip joint there. | 08:20 |
| * code177 looks | 08:21 | |
| GeneralAntilles | code177, maybe here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/h/hildon-desktop/ | 08:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | They'd do better business if they put a McDonalds in. | 08:21 |
| Stskeeps | tigert: i rather liked that your tram stops say when the trams are coming | 08:22 |
| code177 | Master Layout guide only has design specs =/ | 08:23 |
| code177 | GeneralAntilles: Yup, hd-theme.c is in there.. | 08:24 |
| code177 | problem is I don't know C :) | 08:24 |
| tigert | Stskeeps: yea its nice | 08:24 |
| * code177 peruses | 08:24 | |
| tigert | code177: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide | 08:25 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: so true | 08:25 |
| tigert | code177: still looking for that correct section | 08:25 |
| dmj7261 | GeneralAntilles: They should've put in a Nokia store :P | 08:26 |
| code177 | bah, this file is telling me nothing :( | 08:26 |
| luke-jr | code177: md5sum it and you'll get a few octets, at least! | 08:26 |
| * GeneralAntilles doesn't want to argue with a Google employee about Android. | 08:26 | |
| tigert | code177: but, wisget spec and style guide | 08:26 |
| tigert | are the places to starrt from | 08:26 |
| code177 | tigert: I checked those, couldn't find anything =/ | 08:27 |
| dmj7261 | Who knows, maybe the Google employee is a maemo fan. | 08:27 |
| tigert | code177: yea | 08:27 |
| * tigert wishes those were in wiki | 08:27 | |
| tigert | linkable | 08:27 |
| code177 | Well, there's hd-decor-button.c | 08:28 |
| code177 | this is a little more promising | 08:28 |
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| tigert | hmm | 08:30 |
| GAN900 | It's time for Talk to implement more agressive thread locking. | 08:30 |
| code177 | I wish they were as concerned about telling us how to make these widgets as they are telling us about when the different margin constants should be used | 08:30 |
| tigert | you want to do the list like in app manager? | 08:30 |
| GAN900 | dmj7261, he is, but he's apparently been blinded by Android. | 08:30 |
| code177 | knowing when to use HILDON_MARGIN_DOUBLE is useless to me if I have nothing to use it on | 08:30 |
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| GAN900 | Android doesn't offer a cure to the fragmentation that's been holding mobile Linux back for years. | 08:31 |
| GAN900 | It just perpetuates it. | 08:31 |
| * code177 flails | 08:32 | |
| thux | GAN900: what fragmentation? | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | thux: support gets hacked together in a branch and never cleaned up for merging to mainline | 08:33 |
| thux | ah | 08:33 |
| thux | I have hope open gsm drivers to come up now when linux in gsm | 08:34 |
| thux | like open wlan drivers came | 08:34 |
| GAN900 | thux, notice that there's nothing approaching a standardized mobile Linux platform. | 08:34 |
| tigert | code177: so tou want a list picker? | 08:34 |
| tigert | thats hildon touch selector, hold on | 08:34 |
| thux | GAN900: ok i see | 08:34 |
| GAN900 | You have Android, webOS, LiMo, Angstrom, Archos, Motorola, etc, etc | 08:35 |
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| luke-jr | GAN900: nor desktop | 08:35 |
| luke-jr | GAN900: that's not a problem | 08:35 |
| GAN900 | All going in wildly different directions. | 08:35 |
| code177 | Well i dont need to be able to select things, i need them to work as function calls | 08:35 |
| luke-jr | the problem is the vendors | 08:35 |
| * code177 looks up hildontouchselector | 08:35 | |
| GAN900 | luke-jr it's a helluva lot closer. | 08:35 |
| luke-jr | GAN900: not really | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | there's numerous WMs | 08:36 |
| GAN900 | At least you can depend on having X, usually. | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | ok, true | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | but most embedded have X too | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | these days | 08:36 |
| GAN900 | No they don't | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | most means over 50% | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | so yes | 08:36 |
| tigert | code177: but you wqant a list in a dialog to select stuff, or what? | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | when there's a display involved anyhow | 08:36 |
| GAN900 | Android, nope, webOS, nope, LiMo, nope. | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | Android doesn't use X? | 08:37 |
| tigert | thats Hildon Touch Selector | 08:37 |
| tigert | in api ref | 08:37 |
| code177 | well i dont want it in a dialog | 08:37 |
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| code177 | lol | 08:37 |
| microlith | luke-jr: no, custom thinger | 08:37 |
| luke-jr | -.- | 08:37 |
| code177 | i just want a list to select! T-T | 08:37 |
| GAN900 | luke-jr, you always act like you know this shit then it always turns out you don't. | 08:37 |
| code177 | that does look like it though | 08:37 |
| GAN900 | Try approaching things with a little less predetermined certainty. | 08:38 |
| luke-jr | GAN900: more like "Google sucks, but they couldn't possibly suck bad enough to try to reinvent X" | 08:38 |
| luke-jr | guess they can | 08:38 |
| luke-jr | :/ | 08:38 |
| * luke-jr is too optimistic? | 08:38 | |
| GAN900 | thux, all of this means wasted development effort and platform lockin | 08:38 |
| thux | ok | 08:38 |
| GAN900 | Since you can't easily port code from one platform to another. | 08:38 |
| code177 | crap. touch selector popups up a dialogy sort of box | 08:39 |
| tigert | yes | 08:39 |
| tigert | thats the idea | 08:39 |
| tigert | you want just the list? | 08:39 |
| GAN900 | This is why I get so bothered when I see Android trumpeted as an open platform. | 08:39 |
| code177 | just the list | 08:39 |
| code177 | lol | 08:39 |
| GAN900 | Because open is more than just code. | 08:39 |
| luke-jr | not really. | 08:40 |
| thux | but ain't open phone software will make manufacturers to same situation than pc manufacturers are? | 08:40 |
| luke-jr | if it's open, you're free to port things | 08:40 |
| GAN900 | and Android is just sucking valuable development time away from platforms that might offer promise in the long term. | 08:40 |
| luke-jr | thux: there is no open phone software. | 08:40 |
| GAN900 | luke-jr, governance. | 08:40 |
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| GAN900 | thux, just generic hardware vendors? | 08:41 |
| GAN900 | Good! | 08:41 |
| thux | yes | 08:41 |
| tigert | code177: just the list is list | 08:41 |
| luke-jr | thux: there is OpenMoko, which failed. and even then it didn't run free on the phone itself. | 08:41 |
| tigert | code177: sect 5.2 on widget spec | 08:41 |
| tigert | Hildon Touch List | 08:41 |
| thux | nokia would get less profit if hardware vendor | 08:41 |
| GAN900 | Mer using Maemo technologies is a platform that could offer that unification. | 08:41 |
| GAN900 | thux, good! That means cheaper electronics for consumers. | 08:42 |
| thux | true | 08:42 |
| thux | but they probably try to avoid it | 08:42 |
| luke-jr | thux: I personally disagree. I only pay for hardware. They could make a larger profit (from me) by not wasting time writing it. | 08:42 |
| GAN900 | A unified platform benefits two people: small manufacturers and consumers. | 08:43 |
| GAN900 | As I'm not Nokia, I'd like to see me benefit. | 08:43 |
| * luke-jr notes the FCC kinda locks out small manufacturers | 08:43 | |
| GAN900 | -ish | 08:44 |
| GAN900 | Smaller | 08:44 |
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| luke-jr | ? | 08:44 |
| GAN900 | Big business likes the FCC because it helps enforce monopolies. | 08:44 |
| code177 | tigert: I'm not finding the reference for it | 08:44 |
| GAN900 | Smaller relative to behemoths like Nokia. | 08:45 |
| GAN900 | i.e., SmartQ | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not 100% sure sq is actually FCC approved | 08:45 |
| luke-jr | SmartQ hasn't put out a phone yet AFAIK | 08:45 |
| luke-jr | non-phones don't need FCC approval | 08:45 |
| luke-jr | or so OpenPandora seems to think | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | wifi? :P | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | well openpandora ... | 08:45 |
| luke-jr | they're about to ship w/o FCC | 08:46 |
| GAN900 | If a Chinese manufacturer comes out with a similar hardware experience with the same software at a much lower price, then Nokia will have to lower prices to compete. | 08:46 |
| tigert | code177: hm? in develpe guide link i pasted | 08:46 |
| thux | could one make own gsm phone? can you buy all parts? | 08:46 |
| GAN900 | WiFi? Bluetooth? They need FCC. | 08:46 |
| code177 | ah yeah | 08:46 |
| tigert | code177: in the forum nokia section | 08:46 |
| tigert | code177: widget spec link | 08:46 |
| code177 | i wonde rhow all this translates into python | 08:46 |
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| luke-jr | GAN900: OpenPandora thinks not. see their blog | 08:46 |
| tigert | unfortunately its a pdf | 08:46 |
| GAN900 | thux, yes. | 08:47 |
| code177 | ok.. if it's in here.. then it must be in the hildon reference somewhere | 08:47 |
| luke-jr | thux: make? possibly; operate? not w/o FCC approval | 08:47 |
| thux | ok | 08:47 |
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| GAN900 | thux, unless you buy a blockbox gsm modem that has approval. | 08:48 |
| thux | so we will not see home build phones like we have home build pc | 08:48 |
| luke-jr | GAN900: that's because the "blockbox" is itself a complete phone | 08:49 |
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| code177 | tigert: thanks for your help! I'm going to look through the reference tomorrow morning and see if i can figure out how it works | 08:49 |
| GAN900 | Stupid Fremantle text input. | 08:49 |
| code177 | and now i'm going to sleep | 08:49 |
| code177 | night all! | 08:49 |
| tigert | code177: pymaemo.garage.maemo.org might have some? | 08:49 |
| GAN900 | luke-jr, right. | 08:49 |
| tigert | code177: good luck | 08:53 |
| tigert | if you dont figure it out, ask on the devel list for more pointers | 08:53 |
| timeless_mbp | code177: so... having watched the bookmarks ui dev change it, that's basically rows with boxes | 08:59 |
| timeless_mbp | roughly | 08:59 |
| timeless_mbp | it's not interesting, and it isn't owner drawn | 08:59 |
| timeless_mbp | trees fwiw, are incredibly expensive | 08:59 |
| timeless_mbp | so it's probably a list instead | 08:59 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, and sadly, it has an obscene amount of padding floating around | 09:03 |
| timeless_mbp | which is why we were playing in the first place | 09:03 |
| * timeless_mbp curses tigert and all of his friends ;-) | 09:03 | |
| * timeless_mbp takes a moment to laugh at someone who wrote a string | 09:05 | |
| timeless_mbp | "%d tasks undone" | 09:05 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, that's a clever string... ... ... | 09:05 |
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| tigert | timeless_mbp: padding exists for the days you actually use it with fingers | 09:09 |
| tigert | which is, every day :) | 09:10 |
| tigert | unless you think its some PDA | 09:10 |
| tigert | and try to use it with the stylus | 09:10 |
| tigert | (which I lost in april or so and havent missed | 09:10 |
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| tigert | ) | 09:10 |
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| Mousey | ampache | 09:12 |
| Mousey | oops | 09:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | padding isn't as useful when rows are finger tall and tapping anywhere selects them | 09:16 |
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| tigert | what do you mean? | 09:17 |
| tigert | what padding are you talking about? | 09:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | the horizontal padding to the left of the thumbnail in bookmarks | 09:24 |
| timeless_mbp | and the horizontal padding at the right edge of bookmarks | 09:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | n.b. this is mostly an issue for portrait mode | 09:25 |
| * timeless_mbp won't fight about landscape | 09:25 | |
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| dmj7261 | I found the blender thread amusing. | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp | funny or depressing? | 09:27 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 09:27 | |
| dmj7261 | My suitemates and I had been joking about how that was exactly the kind of desktop app not to port. | 09:27 |
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| dmj7261 | Is thee keyboard ui open? | 09:28 |
| Corsac | hmhm, during the “optification” pre-talks, did someone asked debian people (especially dpkg and policy people) about it? I know that too much people involved clutters the debates, but they would have had quite some ideas about what's possible to do with the tools. Seeing the maemo-optify stuff scares me a little, I have to admit :/ | 09:29 |
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| suihkulokki | dmj7261: the keyboard ui is open whenever you slide it it out | 09:32 |
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| dmj7261 | no the on screen keyboard | 09:33 |
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| Stskeeps | dmj7261: there's some pretty good virtual example keyboards | 09:34 |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: open tends to mean open source | 09:35 |
| timeless_mbp | in that context | 09:36 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: so... | 09:36 |
| dmj7261 | yeah,as incanI make improvements to it. | 09:36 |
| timeless_mbp | the optification talks came very late | 09:36 |
| timeless_mbp | dmj7261: the ui is pluggable | 09:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | so you can replace the keyboard | 09:36 |
| dmj7261 | oh good | 09:36 |
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| Corsac | timeless_mbp: yeah I don't want to (re)open the pandora's pox, I seem to recall it was a bit painfull (and god, I'm subscribed to debian-devel, I know that kind of threads :) | 09:43 |
| Meizirkki | How can i change my Maemo wiki account password? | 09:43 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: mostly opt was because they eventually realized "oh no, people will run out of space installing basic apps" | 09:43 |
| timeless_mbp | Meizirkki: is that your garage password? | 09:44 |
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| Meizirkki | yes, i think | 09:44 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: tbh my initial impression was “why not mounting usr from the 32G card” | 09:44 |
| Corsac | but I didn't read the thread | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: i tried | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | i bricked a device trying | 09:45 |
| Corsac | duh | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | the short answer is that the 32g volume mounts too late | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | at least assuming i didn't screw something up in my attempt | 09:45 |
| Lupu | bricked? can't you flash it? | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, not technically bricked | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah we reflashed it | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | but it didn't boot properly | 09:46 |
| Lupu | Alright. | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | so effectively a brick | 09:46 |
| Corsac | hmhm, I know there are ongoing discussions about deprecating supporting /usr not on the same volume as /, but I didn't know it was already problematic | 09:46 |
| Lupu | Bricked means undecoverable :) | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | Lupu: yeah yeah | 09:47 |
| Corsac | yeah but for an user it's the same | 09:47 |
| timeless_mbp | but "broke" doesn't sound anywhere near as exciting | 09:47 |
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| Lupu | hehe | 09:47 |
| Corsac | it's not really part of a good user experience :) | 09:47 |
| Lupu | I'd say 'rolled down stairs and over the neighbors dog' sounds even more exciting, but... | 09:47 |
| timeless_mbp | this is finland | 09:47 |
| timeless_mbp | we rarely notice we have neighbors | 09:47 |
| Lupu | Good answer. :) | 09:48 |
| timeless_mbp | and you'd want a possessive somewhere | 09:48 |
| timeless_mbp | unless neighbors is a breed | 09:48 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: and mounting /opt from the card wasn't possible? | 09:48 |
| Corsac | (instead of using a symlink) | 09:48 |
| dmj7261 | Corsac: your n900 is broke? | 09:48 |
| Corsac | dmj7261: my n900 doesn't exist | 09:48 |
| Corsac | :) | 09:48 |
| Lupu | I couldn't decided if it was singular or plural(neighbor's vs neighbors'), but I guess the latter would be even more exciting. | 09:48 |
| Lupu | s/decided/decide/ | 09:49 |
| infobot | Lupu meant: I couldn't decide if it was singular or plural(neighbor's vs neighbors'), but I guess the latter would be even more exciting. | 09:49 |
| dmj7261 | I meant timeless_mbp | 09:49 |
| timeless_mbp | Lupu: in finland, most people live alone ;-) | 09:49 |
| Corsac | dmj7261: I'm just trying to answer some questions about optify with my debian experience, and I know that replacing a folder by a symlink is not really something we usually do, especially with so much packages involved :) | 09:49 |
| timeless_mbp | dmj7261: 'my n900 broke' is so passive | 09:49 |
| timeless_mbp | you make it sound like there's no blame involved | 09:49 |
| timeless_mbp | or that i owned it | 09:49 |
| Corsac | “i threw my n900 in the stairs” | 09:50 |
| timeless_mbp | more like i borrowed someone else's and broke it for them, then returned it | 09:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | Corsac: s/in/down/ || s/in the stairs/into the stairwell/ | 09:50 |
| dmj7261 | And reflashing doesn't fix those sorts of issues? | 09:50 |
| timeless_mbp | it did | 09:50 |
| Lupu | Is there really a grammar natzi bot in here? | 09:51 |
| timeless_mbp | which is why they were right that i abused the verb '[to]brick' | 09:51 |
| dmj7261 | oh okay, "bricked" sounds like you fryed the chips | 09:51 |
| timeless_mbp | Lupu: there are really a number of people who benefit from corrections to English | 09:51 |
| Corsac | definitely | 09:51 |
| dmj7261 | hail grammar? | 09:51 |
| Lupu | timeless_mbp: Yeah, but it should be a little more forgiving before morning coffee... | 09:52 |
| timeless_mbp | fryed s/fryed/fried/ | 09:52 |
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| Corsac | (I'm even fine with french grammar nazis, so I really don't have problems with english grammar ones) | 09:52 |
| timeless_mbp | Lupu: it's nearly 10am | 09:52 |
| Lupu | Exactly! | 09:52 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 09:52 |
| Corsac | it's nearly 9! | 09:52 |
| * timeless_mbp looks for the "make me breakfast" button | 09:52 | |
| * timeless_mbp can't find it on the n900 keypad | 09:53 | |
| Stskeeps | www.pizza.fi? | 09:53 |
| timeless_mbp | pizza is not breakfast | 09:53 |
| dmj7261 | it's nearly 2! | 09:53 |
| timeless_mbp | www.east.fi | 09:53 |
| timeless_mbp | err | 09:53 |
| timeless_mbp | www.eat.fi | 09:53 |
| Lupu | It's not a button, but a command: http://xkcd.com/149/ | 09:53 |
| timeless_mbp | clearly i type east much more often than eat | 09:53 |
| dmj7261 | why is it that firefox gives me good things when I type in "crap"? | 09:54 |
| Corsac | because firefox sucks | 09:54 |
| timeless_mbp | dmj7261: turn off safe search? | 09:55 |
| dmj7261 | no, it just gives me Cory Doctorow's blog when I type "crap" | 09:55 |
| dmj7261 | I just find it amusing | 09:56 |
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| dragorn | isn't his blog 'craphound'? | 10:02 |
| wazd | mornin maemo | 10:02 |
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| Stskeeps | morning wazd | 10:02 |
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| mgedmin | my n900 is very slow | 10:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: i presume i don't want to ask what you did to it | 10:13 |
| mgedmin | nothing! | 10:13 |
| mgedmin | afaict it's swapping | 10:13 |
| mgedmin | the largest process is browserd at 20 megs rss | 10:14 |
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| mgedmin | less than 200 megs of swap space used | 10:14 |
| mgedmin | okay, it's fast again | 10:15 |
| mgedmin | the apparent slowness, I wildly guess, was the task switcher ui code being swapped out | 10:15 |
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| mgedmin | it is irritating when you tap on an app thumbnail and nothing happens | 10:15 |
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| mgedmin | so you keep tapping until something happens, and that takes maybe 10 seconds | 10:16 |
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| tigert | mgedmin: you got lotsa stuff running? | 10:28 |
| tigert | or is browser being slow? | 10:28 |
| mgedmin | nope, one xterm, one browser window | 10:29 |
| mgedmin | a few applets | 10:29 |
| tigert | weird indeed | 10:29 |
| dmj7261 | what applets/web page? | 10:29 |
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| mgedmin | applets: facebook, personal gprs monitor, personal ip address, load-applet, brightness applet, pc connectivity applet | 10:29 |
| mgedmin | web page: google reader | 10:29 |
| mgedmin | (mobile version) | 10:29 |
| tigert | could be javascript | 10:29 |
| mgedmin | probably is | 10:30 |
| mgedmin | yesterday was worse | 10:30 |
| tigert | try lite.facebook.com btw | 10:30 |
| tigert | <3 | 10:30 |
| tigert | it rocks | 10:30 |
| mgedmin | then I realized I kept a background window running a very javascript-heavy app | 10:30 |
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| mgedmin | that brings my desktop firefox down on its knees | 10:30 |
| mgedmin | hmm | 10:30 |
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| dmj7261 | hopefully microB will be updated to 3.5 sometime | 10:30 |
| suihkulokki | dmj7261: try typing "about:" in microB | 10:31 |
| vesa | tbh try rebooting. i've had problems with weird slowdowns after crashes that get fixed with a reboot | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp | dmj7261: um | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp | we're not going to 3.5 | 10:32 |
| dmj7261 | I don't have an n900 | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp | we're moving to a 3.6 relative | 10:32 |
| dmj7261 | ah | 10:32 |
| dmj7261 | so long as it goes to a faster version | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | we're somewhere roughly newer than 3.5 | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | but sadly, not a safe point | 10:33 |
| dmj7261 | 3.0 wass very slow | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | atm, we're blocked because the idiots @ nokia maps decided to use a plugin api that was deprecated before Firefox 1.0 was released | 10:33 |
| dmj7261 | ?? | 10:34 |
| timeless_mbp | mozilla.org finally removed that api post 3.5 | 10:34 |
| dmj7261 | ah | 10:34 |
| timeless_mbp | kinda a problem for updating to the version we want | 10:34 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: Update anyway, Ovi Maps sucks | 10:34 |
| timeless_mbp | since it means maps doesn't work at all | 10:34 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: this isn't ovi maps, it's nokia maps: ) | 10:35 |
| mgedmin | there's an interesting failure mode where web pages stop reacting to clicks | 10:35 |
| timeless_mbp | (please don't ask me what the difference is) | 10:35 |
| dmj7261 | Couldn't maps be fixed? | 10:35 |
| cosmo | hey, maemo 5's idle plugin _does_ support sending messages | 10:35 |
| tigert | timeless_mbp: you still scale the microb logo in the about page :) | 10:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: Ah, well, I haven't come across Nokia Maps :p | 10:35 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: um | 10:35 |
| cosmo | someone said yesterday that it can't | 10:35 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 10:36 | |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: so... | 10:36 |
| timeless_mbp | last night i turned on an n900 | 10:36 |
| tigert | timeless_mbp: minor issue :) | 10:36 |
| timeless_mbp | this morning i turned to it, and discovered that it was at the "pin please screen" | 10:36 |
| tigert | timeless_mbp: i keep seeing a freezing url bar lately :/ | 10:36 |
| Xisdibik | timeless: i wish i turned on a n900 last night | 10:36 |
| Xisdibik | ;( | 10:36 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: so... please explain the scaling | 10:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Xisdibik: Instead, you get to hear about me and some 300+ other people using their N900s! | 10:37 |
| timeless_mbp | are you saying the size of the picture doesn't match the size of the html container? | 10:37 |
| Xisdibik | i know, its like a wetdream... only a nightmare | 10:37 |
| tigert | timeless_mbp: looks like the logo image is blurry | 10:37 |
| tigert | and also the about page renders it in different size that it is | 10:38 |
| tigert | so yes it seems | 10:38 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: load about:logo | 10:38 |
| tigert | yeah | 10:38 |
| timeless_mbp | that'll show you the native size | 10:38 |
| timeless_mbp | actually | 10:38 |
| mgedmin | so, with only one app running (xterm), should my memory usage be 240 megs of ram + 120 megs of swap? | 10:38 |
| mgedmin | shame that busybox free doesn't show the size of the cache | 10:39 |
| timeless_mbp | if you're lazy, you can "Save Page" and then check the source :) | 10:39 |
| tigert | see how the letters are distorted in about page | 10:39 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: so.. | 10:39 |
| timeless_mbp | it's hard to know if that's because the image has the wrong bits | 10:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | or if it's because the page happens to get an unfortunate zoom level | 10:40 |
| mgedmin | top says cache is 35 megs | 10:40 |
| tigert | wrong bits? | 10:40 |
| tigert | the zoom might be the issue | 10:40 |
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| tigert | actually | 10:41 |
| tigert | actually | 10:41 |
| tigert | zooming it is not | 10:41 |
| tigert | since zooming doesnt change it | 10:41 |
| tigert | but its a minor issu | 10:41 |
| tigert | e | 10:41 |
| * RST38h moos | 10:41 | |
| tigert | most people never see about: | 10:41 |
| * mgedmin feeds RST38h some grass | 10:41 | |
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| RST38h | THAT grass or just grass? | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: ok | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | the html file has <img height=105 | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | since the image is 115 px tall | 10:43 |
| timeless_mbp | that's indeed incredibly stupid :) | 10:43 |
| timeless_mbp | good catch | 10:43 |
| timeless_mbp | is there a bug filed? | 10:43 |
| Passeli | in maemo 5, is there way to ask user if he/she wants to delete application data also? | 10:43 |
| Passeli | when removing application | 10:43 |
| RST38h | in postrm... | 10:43 |
| timeless_mbp | Passeli: in short, no | 10:43 |
| timeless_mbp | because you don't necessarily have X11 when an app is removed | 10:44 |
| RST38h | Passeli: that is how timeless usually says "you are not supposed to" | 10:44 |
| timeless_mbp | so trying to use X11 will cause removal to do bad things if it isn't present | 10:44 |
| RST38h | Passeli: But you can, if you are careful | 10:44 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, you can, but, odds are you'll get it wrong | 10:44 |
| RST38h | Also, you always have X11, you just may not be able to physically click the screen (when removing app over ssh connection remotely) | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | what linux should have is a way for apps to register their data file paths | 10:45 |
| Passeli | we used maemo-confirm-text in diablo at postrm, but it works differently in maemo 5 | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: not true | 10:45 |
| RST38h | Passeli: If you can avoid it, please do avoid it | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | it's possible for X11 to not be running | 10:45 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | hi Jaffa | 10:46 |
| Passeli | RST38h: so is the current policy to leave app data on device when removing app thru app manager? | 10:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | Passeli: a better approach is to create a special package which is labeled as {My Application Data} | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | where the description makes it clear that it's the user's actual created content | 10:47 |
| timeless_mbp | if the user chooses to remove *that* package, so be it :) | 10:47 |
| mgedmin | I've never seen that approach done anywhere by anyone | 10:47 |
| * timeless_mbp neither | 10:48 | |
| mgedmin | most apps just leave data as is | 10:48 |
| timeless_mbp | but it's better than a dialog :) | 10:48 |
| mgedmin | if the data lives in a user-accessible directory (i.e. under MyDocs), then the user can delete it herself | 10:48 |
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| mgedmin | I've seen some debian packages ask *on installation time* whether application data should be purged when you remove the package | 10:51 |
| RST38h | Passeli: I think most apps do not remove user data when you demove them with dpkg -r, but remove all the data when you do dpkg -P (purge) | 10:51 |
| mgedmin | I can't say I liked that approach | 10:51 |
| timeless_mbp | oh that makes sense | 10:51 |
| RST38h | Passeli: As far as I know, App Manager does -r but not -P | 10:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | since the user has no idea if they like the data they're creating at that point | 10:51 |
| mgedmin | "um, I dunno... ask me when I actually have some data" | 10:51 |
| timeless_mbp | and won't remember by the time they go to remove i | 10:51 |
| timeless_mbp | t | 10:51 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin++ | 10:51 |
| RST38h | Passeli: So, it feels appropriate (although somewhat wrong) not to remove user data, if you can't show the dialog | 10:52 |
| RST38h | Passeli: But provide a way to purge it with dpkg -P | 10:52 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 10:52 | |
| timeless_mbp | does hildon-<something> support .desktop files under ~ ? | 10:53 |
| * timeless_mbp assumes hildon gets that wrong too | 10:53 | |
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| Mousey | and with that... | 11:03 |
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| mgedmin | RST38h: dpkg --purge is for configuration files, not for app data | 11:29 |
| mihu | Hm, how long does it usually take to create a bugzilla account on maemor.org? | 11:29 |
| RST38h | mgedminL: Oh. But doesn't ~/.appname count as a config file? | 11:30 |
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| mgedmin | no, only files under /etc | 11:32 |
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| matmo | hi all. How can I check karma points without visiting every page in profiles? | 11:33 |
| matmo | (my points) | 11:33 |
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| frals | ~karma | 11:34 |
| infobot | frals has neutral karma | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | maemo.org/profile/view/username? | 11:34 |
| X-Fade | matmo: https://maemo.org/profile/view/ | 11:34 |
| frals | wrong one i guess ;D | 11:34 |
| matmo | X-Fade: error 404 on that page | 11:34 |
| X-Fade | matmo: With your username at the end. | 11:34 |
| matmo | ok, one sec | 11:34 |
| X-Fade | Or just click on your name in the top right corner ;) | 11:35 |
| matmo | got it but "karma" not listed | 11:35 |
| mgedmin | I think matmo wants https://maemo.org/profile/list/ | 11:36 |
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| matmo | hmmm, how can I be a member for 2 yrs and have no karma? Rhetorical question, I must have missed something somewhere. Drat. Double drat considering nearly everything I do is Maemo related (just not very public) | 11:39 |
| mgedmin | matmo: have you linked your email addresses etc. in your garage profile? | 11:40 |
| mgedmin | s/garage/maemo.org/ | 11:40 |
| infobot | mgedmin meant: matmo: have you linked your email addresses etc. in your maemo.org profile? | 11:40 |
| matmo | probably not :-( Oh well, have to wait until prices fall within the range I can afford/ justify. Thanks for replies. | 11:41 |
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| vivainio | anyone using finger scrolling w/ qt on diablo? | 11:48 |
| vivainio | I'm trying to make this happen with QTextBrowser, with bad results | 11:48 |
| vivainio | should it work in emulator also? | 11:49 |
| matmo | lol, I am linked-in, karma: 67, bad boy! | 11:51 |
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| RST38h | matmo: Start a few t.m.o threads about how N900 is worse than iPhone, and you are in business! | 11:53 |
| mihu | Ah, spamfilter ate my the bugzilla registration mail. Never mind... | 11:55 |
| tbf | RST38h: matmo: i am sure nokia's product designers will listen carefully ;-) | 11:55 |
| matmo | RST38h: ha, haaa... nope, couldn't do that, never even held one and I would feel like a hypocrite. I just have to accept the fact I missed the boat. A few days weeping and I will recover :-) | 11:57 |
| tbf | matmo: next device, next chance :-D | 11:57 |
| tbf | matmo: but now start blogging, and spaming in talk.maemo.org :-D | 11:58 |
| mgedmin | matmo: start fixing apps in extras! | 11:58 |
| mgedmin | can karma be traded? I'd give a lot for working iptables in fremantle | 11:58 |
| tbf | too bad that garage commits don't give karma. | 11:59 |
| Jaffa | Yay! Hermes is creating "birthday-only" contacts now. (Optionally) | 11:59 |
| tbf | but guess that's to prevent from nokian's and contractors gaining karma | 11:59 |
| Jaffa | tbf: Nokians and contractors can get karma. | 11:59 |
| RST38h | Well Nokians still gain shitloads of karma | 12:00 |
| RST38h | So, that is not the reason | 12:00 |
| Jaffa | tbf: Garage project activity *did* earn karma in the past. | 12:00 |
| tbf | Jaffa: yes, but they should not get by their day job | 12:00 |
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| Stskeeps | why not? :P | 12:00 |
| Jaffa | It could be either a) I'm misremembering; b) it's broken | 12:00 |
| tbf | Stskeeps: cause we paid for commiting stuff to garage? | 12:00 |
| SpeedEvil | matmo: there is a way to reduce sticker shock to ~360 for those in the UK - see 'haff''s post on maemo.org | 12:00 |
| tbf | *we get | 12:00 |
| matmo | tbf: I will plan ahead for the N1000 :-) | 12:01 |
| * RST38h is looking at the new Atom-based phone proto | 12:01 | |
| matmo | SpeedEvil: thank for the tip, I will check it out. | 12:01 |
| mgedmin | SpeedEvil: you know these things, what are they called, URLs? | 12:01 |
| RST38h | Rendered of course, not the real thing :) | 12:01 |
| RST38h | Looks like a cross of iPhone and N900 | 12:02 |
| SpeedEvil | mgedmin: my browser crashed | 12:03 |
| mgedmin | ouch | 12:03 |
| SpeedEvil | mgedmin: So ratehre than wait the couple of minutes it'll take to restart, at which time matmo may have wandered off... | 12:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31561&page=14 - a couple of posts back | 12:05 |
| mgedmin | chromium: I'm not afraid to close my last browser window any more | 12:08 |
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| tigert | hmm | 12:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | yeah - well 200ish tabs open, and it was oomkilling on startup | 12:11 |
| matmo | SpeedEvil: thanks for the link, very useful. I also find prices tend to fall off after a month or two so I will resist the urge for as long as I can ;-) | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | tbf: so... | 12:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | rewarding nokians for committing publicly | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | instead of committing privately | 12:13 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think they're going to fall _that_ far. | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | is probably valualbe | 12:13 |
| SpeedEvil | (but it may not work) | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | that said, i don't think nokians generally eat slots from people | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | e.g. nokians were not sponsored to maemo summit by maemo.org | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | (speaking as someone who was not paid by nokia or maemo.org to go...) | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | nokians were not supposed to take devices from the 300 pile there either | 12:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | and nokians generally can purchase devices internally, so if there's a pool of purchasable devices on a first come first serve basis, it's unlikely nokians will eat from it | 12:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | about the only things we consume are tshirts and chocolate | 12:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | (and there wasn't much in the way of chocolate) | 12:15 |
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| Jaffa | And most Nokians aren't committing to garage.maemo.org in their day jobs | 12:17 |
| Jaffa | *and* there's obviously not an enormous skew to Nokians given that the front page has *way* more community peeps than Nokians | 12:17 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 12:18 | |
| timeless_mbp | i remember quim and i from the top list | 12:18 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't remember many others | 12:18 |
| timeless_mbp | in fact, we're the only 2 in the top set | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | my karma is from filing bugs, and i would have filed them whether or not i worked for nokia | 12:19 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: hmm. that's actually a good point. | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | i have a whole bunch of other bugs i need to file too | 12:19 |
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| RST38h | The list: http://maemo.org/profile/list/ | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1 | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | nice pattern, i wonder how long it repeats :) | 12:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | amusingly, we aren't particularly consistent about our employer's spelling | 12:21 |
| RST38h | Lots of Nokia contractors there too | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | Nokia, Nokia Oyj, Nokia Corporation | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | the contractor case is more interesting | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | but... | 12:22 |
| timeless_mbp | given that nokia generally prevents contractors from admitting they exist | 12:22 |
| timeless_mbp | you really don't want to discourage contractor involvement | 12:22 |
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| timeless_mbp | and contractors often don't get rewarded by nokia/their employer w/ a final product | 12:22 |
| timeless_mbp | and given that they aren't cheap, and that they've probably put quite a lot of effort into it | 12:23 |
| RST38h | Nokia Rubber Products | 12:23 |
| * mgedmin rethinks his plans to become a nokia contractor | 12:23 | |
| timeless_mbp | not letting them have a chance to pick one up is mean | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: i've never contracted for nokia | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | so i could be wrong | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | but i do know of one case were we specially arranged for a contractor who was leaving us to get a device, because he wasn't going to otherwise | 12:23 |
| * RST38h will happily disregard lack of freebies when the hourly rate is right | 12:23 | |
| * timeless_mbp underlines leaving | 12:24 | |
| timeless_mbp | clearly the rate wasn't good enough :/ | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | (in this case, he took a job @nokia itself, so...) | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | actually | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | a couple of people aren't listing their employer | 12:25 |
| guysoft42 | i just got xvnc4viewer debian package compiled in maemo. i need to tweak a few things in the rules and it should be uploadable | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | i believe nix_nix is a nokian | 12:25 |
| wazd | RST38h: heya | 12:25 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, is there a procedure how to upload new source packages to exrtas? | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | guysoft42: historically we've had vnc packages | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | have you looked to see what happened to their maintainers? | 12:26 |
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| Jaffa | guysoft42: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | (not saying that you shouldn't do it, just...) | 12:26 |
| Corsac | Disponibilité: En stock chez notre fournisseur - 10 Jours | 12:26 |
| Corsac | woouh | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: we're shipping our product? | 12:26 |
| Corsac | €554,99 though | 12:26 |
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| guysoft42 | timeless, ist a separate vnc package. its not the same source.. and i like it, its much faster and lighter than the one currently avilable | 12:26 |
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| Corsac | timeless_mbp: expansys supplier has it | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | guysoft42: ok :) | 12:27 |
| RST38h | Hurrah | 12:27 |
| guysoft42 | i can run it at the moment without packaging.. its usable and nice | 12:27 |
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| guysoft42 | the only thing missing is a fullscreen button, but its not mandatory. | 12:27 |
| guysoft42 | Jaffa, thanks, ill view it | 12:27 |
| mgedmin | fullscreen-turn-off button is more of a necessity, as I've discovered | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: as long as ctrl-backspace works :) | 12:28 |
| mgedmin | fbreader has 'fullscreen' available from the (diablo 4 style) menus, but once you're fullscreen, you can't access them | 12:28 |
| RST38h | wazd: EHLO! | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: the hardware menu key doesn't work? | 12:29 |
| mgedmin | dunno, I'll tell you once I solder one on | 12:29 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: That is because it has not yet been adapted for Fremantle | 12:29 |
| mgedmin | sudo apt-get install hardware-menu-key | 12:29 |
| wazd | I wonder if Nokia will do something stylish with maemo | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: oh | 12:29 |
| mgedmin | wazd: you mean maemo 5 isn't stylish enough for you? | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | you mean using the maemo 4 fbreader on maemo 5 | 12:29 |
| * timeless_mbp missed that | 12:30 | |
| * guysoft42 sent an invitation request to the admins | 12:30 | |
| wazd | mgedmin: I\rquote m talking bout hardware :) | 12:30 |
| guysoft42 | are they by any chance ehre? | 12:30 |
| mgedmin | timeless_mbp: yes, since it hasn't been properly fremantleized yet | 12:30 |
| guysoft42 | here* | 12:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: does ctrl-backspace work? :) | 12:30 |
| mgedmin | hardware-wise the n900 is quite stylish, when compared to previous attempts | 12:30 |
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| RST38h | wazd: You mean the current Maemo5 is not stylish enough? | 12:30 |
| wazd | ' | 12:30 |
| mgedmin | but without the preconditioning yeah, it's not exactly a piece of art | 12:30 |
| wazd | cool :) | 12:30 |
| mgedmin | timeless_mbp: yes, ctrl-backspace does work just fine | 12:31 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, maemo 5 can have some tweaks for sure, but I'm talking bout hardware | 12:31 |
| RST38h | wazd: You mean they should make it look even more like iPhone? :) | 12:31 |
| wazd | RST38h: look at 6700 for example, that's a peice of art :) | 12:31 |
| * mgedmin likes the 6600 | 12:31 | |
| wazd | RST38h: No, Nokia can make outstanding products that doesn't look boring | 12:32 |
| mgedmin | the only nokia phone that's actually pretty | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | there was a company that was going to ship a shiny product and eventually use maemo5 | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone remember it? | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd suggest buying theirs if you want shiny | 12:32 |
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| chritto | I'm having a problem where apt-get update is hanging, trying to connect to repository.maemo.org (both inside and outside of scratchbox). Could this be my own problem, or could the server be down? | 12:33 |
| wazd | RST38h: touchphone design is a tough experience, since you just have screen and the border | 12:33 |
| rmt | So - what's the fastest scripting language (to start up) with a GUI on Maemo? | 12:34 |
| rmt | I'm thinking that maybe LuaGTK may be a good bet. | 12:35 |
| RST38h | wazd: I am more concerned about holding it horizontally, it is uncomfortable | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | rmt: zenity | 12:35 |
| rmt | timeless, Yeah, but a little limited. :-P | 12:35 |
| mgedmin | ick | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | rmt: i'd go w/ a little buggy | 12:35 |
| * mgedmin is kinda partial to Python | 12:35 | |
| timeless_mbp | and hopefully qwerty12_N810 will fix that for me :) | 12:35 |
| mgedmin | hm, maybe I should try creating a small python maemo 5 app and blog about it, raeddit-style | 12:36 |
| rmt | Love Python, but the startup for GUI apps is a bit slow. | 12:36 |
| mgedmin | vala? | 12:36 |
| rmt | Might be possible to speed it up, of course.. | 12:37 |
| mgedmin | there are some hacks, eg. python-launcher is one name I've heard and plan to investigate some day... | 12:37 |
| rmt | Vala's great.. using it already.. but not a scripting language. | 12:37 |
| SpeedEvil | assembler | 12:37 |
| mgedmin | why is "scripting language" a requirement? | 12:37 |
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| mgedmin | I'd think you'd want a high-level language so you could program and not get bogged in all the irrelevant details | 12:37 |
| rmt | Maybe a pre-linked python+gtk executable.. | 12:38 |
| wazd | RST38h: oh | 12:38 |
| mgedmin | prototype in python, when you find a good design rewrite in c/vala | 12:38 |
| wazd | RST38h: I thought it's good to just lock it with thumb | 12:39 |
| RST38h | wazd: considering using a lanyard, may be easier that way | 12:39 |
| wazd | RST38h: since there are no buttons on the front | 12:39 |
| tigert | hmm | 12:39 |
| RST38h | wazd: you leave fingerprints and obscure the picture | 12:39 |
| rmt | mgedmin, Did that for my image viewer.. worked very well.. | 12:39 |
| * tigert wonders how browsers think someone is "mobile device"? | 12:39 | |
| mgedmin | awesome | 12:39 |
| RST38h | wazd: Also, both your hands are tied up that way | 12:39 |
| tigert | like google now uses the mobile search version for N900 | 12:39 |
| suihkulokki | tigert: "nokia" in User-agent? | 12:40 |
| tigert | is it just by comparing some list of user agent strings? | 12:40 |
| RST38h | tigert: user-agent | 12:40 |
| tigert | there is no "nokia" there | 12:40 |
| tigert | I realized | 12:40 |
| rmt | So - scripting language requirement is that I'd like to be able to download+run code (with human security measures at this point).. | 12:40 |
| tigert | it just says "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux armv7l; en-US; rv:1.9.2a1pre) Gecko/20091012 Firefox/3.5 Maemo Browser 1.5.4.1 RX-51 N900" | 12:40 |
| suihkulokki | mmh ok | 12:40 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, anyway, n900 has pretty spartan look :) | 12:40 |
| ifreq | tigert: well what about maemo as keyword? | 12:40 |
| tigert | but is there some other method to tell "I'm a mobile browser"? | 12:40 |
| tigert | perhaps | 12:41 |
| suihkulokki | tigert: I think the google default search ends up in the mobile search because the bookmark is linked to there, not because of autodetect | 12:41 |
| tigert | its also funny that google uses an usefully large font in N900 | 12:41 |
| RST38h | wazd: It looks exactly like an iPhone, with plastic top, no Button, and twice thicked because of keyboard | 12:41 |
| tigert | while its tiny on other phones or by viewing the mobile version with desktop browser | 12:41 |
| mgedmin | well, not exactly like | 12:42 |
| RST38h | tigert: Someone at Google has got an N900, no doubt | 12:42 |
| tigert | RST38h: thats what I figured | 12:42 |
| tigert | because its sweet | 12:42 |
| wazd | RST38h: it looks like any touchscreen phone) | 12:42 |
| RST38h | tigert: Now, if these guys fixed mobile GMail... | 12:42 |
| * tigert wonders when website design starts to take DPI into account | 12:42 | |
| wazd | RST38h: screen on the front :D | 12:42 |
| RST38h | wazd: Yes, all touch screen phones look like iPhone nowadays | 12:42 |
| tigert | that would be sweet | 12:42 |
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| wazd | RST38h: iphone is not unique in it's look | 12:42 |
| tigert | RST38h: yeah, mobile-anything is in 99% of cases just way too spartan and small for N900 | 12:42 |
| mgedmin | google reader mobile edition has funky css problems if you use large fonts in microb | 12:43 |
| RST38h | wazd: At least Steve Jobs was smart enough not to include blue LED illumination this time, or we would have REALLY garish phones everywhere | 12:43 |
| tigert | even for N800/810 | 12:43 |
| mgedmin | they tile their icons in a larger image, which shows up very clearly | 12:43 |
| * tigert wonders if user css would work in microb | 12:43 | |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Actually, I feel absolutely fine with Google mobile apps | 12:43 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Just the right size | 12:43 |
| suihkulokki | well, if you want to have a tiny phone with a large touchscreen, you don't have many options on making how the phone will look like | 12:43 |
| RST38h | Sorry, that was to tigert | 12:43 |
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| wazd | RST38h: place d-pad instead of button - voi la, it's one of thousand WinMo PPCs before the iphone | 12:43 |
| tigert | the feature sets are just way spartan | 12:44 |
| RST38h | tigert: GMail is only problematic because it *insists* on 240x320 screen size and resizes itself to that | 12:44 |
| wazd | RST38h: like Jam for example | 12:44 |
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| RST38h | wazd: You need way more space for dpad | 12:44 |
| * mgedmin hates how mobile google reader has no 'like' button | 12:44 | |
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| tigert | mobile google search has nice large fonts | 12:44 |
| * tigert wonders if it is microb hack or google doing this | 12:44 | |
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| RST38h | Google most likely | 12:45 |
| wazd | RST38h: anyway, iphone is not the first phone with large screen on the front :) | 12:45 |
| RST38h | it is the one everyone copies | 12:45 |
| mgedmin | apple does good design | 12:45 |
| tigert | most mobile versions of sites just assume no javascript, no fun stuff, and small fonts | 12:46 |
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| tigert | while the font / clickable element size is the real problem | 12:46 |
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| tigert | everything works fine, but its just way small in N900 | 12:46 |
| wazd | RST38h: you're exagerating :) | 12:47 |
| tigert | "Gmail unfortunately doesnt work in HTML Web Browser device" ?? | 12:48 |
| wazd | RST38h: look at the HTC lineup for example | 12:48 |
| tigert | wtf is this just weird translation to finnish or what? :) | 12:48 |
| wazd | RST38h: they have pretty recognizable look | 12:48 |
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| X-Fade | yerga: ping? | 12:49 |
| RST38h | wazd: And they also look suspiciously like Chinese-copied iPhones =) | 12:49 |
| wazd | RST38h: no they don't :) | 12:49 |
| RST38h | Some don't, true | 12:49 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://blog.phoneslimited.co.uk/files/2009/02/htc-touch-diamond2.jpg | 12:49 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2009/2/htc-touch-pro-2_468.jpg | 12:50 |
| yerga | X-Fade, pong | 12:51 |
| mgedmin | the first one doesn't look all bad, but the os logo in the top-left corner spoils everything | 12:51 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Well, Pro2 looks like a fat iPhone with keyboard | 12:51 |
| RST38h | Which ironically also describes N900 :) | 12:51 |
| X-Fade | yerga: So you do see the screenshot widget, but not the buttons? | 12:51 |
| RST38h | Diamond looks different, yes | 12:52 |
| wazd | RST38h: am c'mon :) | 12:52 |
| yerga | X-Fade, I see the two entries for the title and name | 12:52 |
| wazd | RST38h: that's because of screen on the front? :) | 12:52 |
| yerga | X-Fade, but don't the buttons | 12:52 |
| yerga | X-Fade, I have screenshots if you want them | 12:52 |
| yerga | X-Fade, is working in other sections Maemo4, etc. | 12:53 |
| RST38h | wazd: Huge screen, no controls, smooth border around the screen, made of slightly different material | 12:53 |
| X-Fade | yerga: It is problably a permissions issue. Let me play with that a bit ;) | 12:53 |
| RST38h | rounded corners | 12:53 |
| yerga | X-Fade, ok thanks, not very important problem anyway ;-) | 12:53 |
| mgedmin | the slight bevel around the n900's screen slightly irritates me | 12:53 |
| wazd | RST38h: there are controls on the bottom | 12:53 |
| X-Fade | yerga: It is! | 12:53 |
| RST38h | wazd: The Button? ;) | 12:53 |
| mgedmin | I wish the front surface was totally flat | 12:53 |
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| wazd | RST38h: every single PDA has border around the screen :) | 12:54 |
| RST38h | oh it has got a slider! | 12:54 |
| RST38h | wazd: I will answer in one image: http://dailymobile.se/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/htc-touch-pro2-vs-iphone-3g-01.jpg | 12:55 |
| RST38h | Side view: http://dailymobile.se/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/htc-touch-pro2-vs-iphone-3g-06.jpg | 12:55 |
| mgedmin | one of them looks fat | 12:55 |
| wazd | RST38h: and? :) | 12:55 |
| mgedmin | yuck | 12:55 |
| timeless_mbp | hey | 12:55 |
| RST38h | wazd: Doesn't the left one look like a chinese knockoff of the right one? | 12:55 |
| X-Fade | yerga: better now? | 12:55 |
| timeless_mbp | is it fn-left to trigger up in regions w/o a hardware up key? | 12:55 |
| wazd | RST38h: absolutely not | 12:56 |
| RST38h | Mmm... | 12:56 |
| tigert | timeless_mbp: something like that | 12:56 |
| tigert | havent seen a .fi version yet | 12:56 |
| RST38h | Maybe I just have no artistic taste at all | 12:56 |
| wazd | RST38h: 2 different devices with slight similarities | 12:56 |
| wazd | RST38h: like flush screen and... that's all | 12:56 |
| RST38h | Because to me it looks exactly like a Chinese knockoff of the iPhone | 12:56 |
| RST38h | wazd: rounded corners, flush screen, accented border, controls underneath, same size even | 12:57 |
| mgedmin | timeless_mbp: key <DOWN>{ type[Group1] = "PC_FN_LEVEL2", symbols[Group1] = [Left,Up] }; | 12:57 |
| mgedmin | key <RGHT>{ type[Group1] = "PC_FN_LEVEL2", symbols[Group1] = [Right,Down] }; | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | that should answer your question | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: i just changed my hardware keyboard using Text Input to Suomi | 12:58 |
| wazd | RST38h: controls underneath? :D | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | empirical testing is easier :) | 12:58 |
| wazd | RST38h: are you kidding? :D | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | it's from /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | the answer is yes, fn is the modifier | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | stupid question | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | which is a pathname I might want to remember later | 12:58 |
| RST38h | wazd: ok ok I give up :) | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | where the heck do the keyboard layout names live? | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: heh | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | hm, /etc/X11/xkb/base.xml maybe? | 12:59 |
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| wazd | RST38h: rounded corners aswell :) | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: no | 12:59 |
| RST38h | wazd: hey, I insist on rounded corners being a feature, many HTC phones do not have these | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | the ui shows "English, Nederlands" or something | 12:59 |
| mgedmin | the FreeRunner wins on rounded corners | 13:00 |
| timeless_mbp | but the xml file uses SLASHes instead of COMMAs | 13:00 |
| wazd | RST38h: yeah, but lots of them had before the iphone | 13:00 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: You have not seen Palm Pre, have you? | 13:00 |
| mgedmin | no | 13:00 |
| yerga | X-Fade, the same result | 13:00 |
| RST38h | check out the images on the net | 13:00 |
| X-Fade | yerga: Ok, i'll try to debug this.. | 13:00 |
| mgedmin | it's not as round as the freerunner | 13:00 |
| RST38h | wazd: BTW, can you point to any pre-iPhone device that looks the same? | 13:00 |
| yerga | X-Fade, ok, thanks! | 13:01 |
| wazd | RST38h: HTC Touch? | 13:01 |
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| RST38h | nope, the original touch looks very differently | 13:01 |
| RST38h | more like an hPaq really | 13:02 |
| wazd | RST38h: flush screen, rounded corners, controls underneath :D | 13:02 |
| yerga | X-Fade, sorry, it's working in Chrome now, let me clear the cache in Firefox and see | 13:03 |
| wazd | RST38h: I'm not telling that none of the existing phones are copying iPhone, but seriously, most of them don't :) | 13:03 |
| X-Fade | yerga: it is working now, but there is indeed a bug. | 13:04 |
| tbf | guess you don't have much options for the front of a pure touch screen phone | 13:04 |
| tbf | users expect you to maximize the touch screen size | 13:04 |
| mgedmin | well, you could put spikes on it | 13:04 |
| gomiam | or. | 13:04 |
| mgedmin | win on originality | 13:04 |
| mgedmin | lose on usability and lawsuits | 13:04 |
| wazd | RST38h: they can take some of the usefull trends but no ripping | 13:04 |
| tbf | mgedmin: actually some researchers did something like that | 13:04 |
| tbf | mgedmin: they put microscopic spikes on touch screens to hide fingerprints | 13:05 |
| timeless_mbp | tbf: did it work? | 13:05 |
| tbf | mgedmin: the spikes are small enough to make the screen still look glossy | 13:05 |
| RST38h | wazd: it is easier to rip and borrow some of iphone popularity this way | 13:05 |
| tbf | mgedmin: but they are random enough to cloak finger prints | 13:06 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: according to a news i've read yesterday: yes. | 13:06 |
| wazd | RST38h: I'd rather seriously see some hybrid of E-series design and a touchphone | 13:06 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: if those guys got a patent, they will be rich, i guess | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | depends on whether people are willing to pay :) | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | if all the big companies choose not to buy it :) | 13:07 |
| RST38h | wazd: E70-Touch! :) | 13:07 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: then some garage company will bring it and become rich :-D | 13:08 |
| wazd | RST38h: hehe :) | 13:08 |
| timeless_mbp | Maemo Garage? :) | 13:08 |
| tbf | :-) | 13:08 |
| yerga | X-Fade, working in Firefox too, thanks! | 13:08 |
| X-Fade | yerga: Yeah, but this is because I opened up everything ;) | 13:09 |
| X-Fade | yerga: So it is going to stop working again when I close that. | 13:09 |
| yerga | X-Fade, ah, ok | 13:09 |
| X-Fade | yerga: But do upload your screenshots, while you can ;) | 13:10 |
| yerga | X-Fade, then I'll let the bug open | 13:10 |
| wazd | RST38h: btw, E70 is a good example of my statement that nokia isn't afraid to make some crazy stuff :) | 13:10 |
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| yerga | X-Fade, ok, you can close the door now, thanks | 13:13 |
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| Ronaldo38741 | Is there a better twitter client for the N810 than mauku? | 13:18 |
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| nnod | Ronaldo38741: wget? | 13:23 |
| Ronaldo38741 | wget | 13:23 |
| Ronaldo38741 | The FTP/HTTP downloader? | 13:23 |
| nnod | yeah, you can post form data with it. sorry, it was more of a joke than a legitimate suggestion. | 13:25 |
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| zerojay | Has anyone been able to install mafw-lastfm 0.2-1? Seems broken to me. | 13:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh nice | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | the idiots compiled the string right into a .so | 13:37 |
| * timeless_mbp curses | 13:37 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok | 13:38 |
| timeless_mbp | well um | 13:38 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 13:38 | |
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| Ceron^ | $ apt-cache search boobs | 13:42 |
| Ceron^ | liboobs-1-4 - GObject based interface to system-tools-backends - shared library | 13:42 |
| Ceron^ | boobs in the repository :o | 13:42 |
| ifreq | boobs in the library | 13:42 |
| ifreq | :P | 13:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Nokia 16 GB microSDHC Card MU-44 £75.00 ' | 13:43 |
| Ceron^ | cheap! | 13:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Is this a 100Mbyte/s card? :) | 13:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Or made of solid osmium? | 13:44 |
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| Ceron^ | why buy a nokias own version :p | 13:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Yes - I was pointing that out | 13:44 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: it helps pay our salaries | 13:45 |
| range | Can you preorder that? | 13:45 |
| timeless_mbp | very very important | 13:45 |
| SpeedEvil | (75 quid = $120 or so) | 13:45 |
| zerojay | Who said boobs? | 13:45 |
| * zerojay perks up. | 13:45 | |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: I bought a 3310, just the other decade! | 13:45 |
| Arkenklo | zerojay: liboobs | 13:45 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: yeah, see, that so doesn't help | 13:45 |
| timeless_mbp | please upgrade to buying nokia products annually | 13:46 |
| timeless_mbp | otherwise, you aren't contributing to our annual expenses | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm currently in the process of checkout with the n900 | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | However - I expect the order to be cancelled. | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | As I'm abusing discount codes. | 13:46 |
| timeless_mbp | how? | 13:46 |
| Ceron^ | http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/prodinfo.php?id=20071 | 13:46 |
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| Ceron^ | SpeedEvil: you ordering from that cashback site? | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=351254&postcount=125 | 13:47 |
| Arkenklo | I wonder if you stack multiple procentual discounts, if nokia actually sends you money | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: I am. | 13:47 |
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| Ceron^ | SpeedEvil: where are you from? | 13:48 |
| Ceron^ | what land | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: a n900 + battery = 321.80 | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | scotland | 13:48 |
| Ceron^ | ... | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: (plus 49.99 cashback) | 13:48 |
| Ceron^ | that has to be troll | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | well - it's on my shopping cart, at that figure | 13:48 |
| Ceron^ | seriously theyr making a loss on that | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | If they decline it, they decline it. | 13:49 |
| SpeedEvil | But there is no way I can afford 499 | 13:49 |
| zerojay | What cashback site? | 13:49 |
| Ceron^ | check SpeedEvils link | 13:49 |
| SpeedEvil | see the above mammo link - topcashback | 13:49 |
| Ceron^ | zerojay: | 13:49 |
| Ceron^ | does that link work for ppl | 13:49 |
| SpeedEvil | mammo? | 13:49 |
| Arkenklo | does using this cashback thing involve sending money to anyone in eccess of nokiaG | 13:49 |
| Ceron^ | who live in finland :D? | 13:49 |
| Arkenklo | ? | 13:49 |
| vesa | me =) | 13:49 |
| SpeedEvil | My keyboard is segueing into the 'boobs' thread. | 13:50 |
| Ceron^ | vesa: did you order | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: no | 13:50 |
| Ceron^ | from cashback=? | 13:50 |
| Arkenklo | I live in sweden, but finland is only a formality | 13:50 |
| Arkenklo | it's actually all sweden | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.maemoproject.com | 13:50 |
| vesa | nope =/ | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | what on earth is that | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't know if these deals are available outside the UK, I suspect so. | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | google nokia cashback yourcountry I guess | 13:50 |
| Ceron^ | its pretty suspicious | 13:50 |
| Ceron^ | :( | 13:50 |
| zerojay | Stskeeps: wtf | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: cashback sites do actually exist, and work. | 13:51 |
| Arkenklo | in sweden there's a visa-card you can get that gives you a lowest-price guarantee | 13:51 |
| * Stskeeps wonders what marketing is up to | 13:51 | |
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| w00t | Stskeeps: o.O | 13:51 |
| Arkenklo | so if you buy say an n900 for a load ass of money, while it's avaliable cheaper from somewhere else, the _bank_ gives you the difference back | 13:51 |
| ifreq | i would think that here in fi phones should be cheap... but nouuuu same pricing or mayb even more | 13:51 |
| ifreq | :-P | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | (and worst-case, I can excersize my rights under the distance selling act to return it) | 13:51 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: more mushrooms! | 13:51 |
| ifreq | n900 here cost 580-6xx euros | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | view source is even weirder :P | 13:52 |
| Arkenklo | SpeedEvil: yes, but how do you know you'll get your money back? | 13:52 |
| w00t | yeah, I saw | 13:52 |
| Ceron^ | ifreq: yeh it sucks | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: the websites actually do give people their money back - they are paid by nokia | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: and if they do not, I can cancel the contract and return the n900 | 13:52 |
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| ifreq | Ceron^: no logic on that to be honest :/ | 13:53 |
| Arkenklo | SpeedEvil: I beliave you, but I can't figure out how someone can profit on that | 13:53 |
| VDVsx | X-Fade, ping | 13:53 |
| Arkenklo | believe | 13:53 |
| Ceron^ | im abit angry if that cashbacksite works | 13:54 |
| Ceron^ | its really unfair :P | 13:54 |
| RurouniJones | Are N900s available now in the US non-contract? | 13:54 |
| RurouniJones | I have an unexpected opportunity | 13:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: nokia offers cashback to third parties for driving custom to their site | 13:55 |
| SpeedEvil | RurouniJones: you can pre-order | 13:55 |
| RurouniJones | Bugger, no good. | 13:55 |
| Arkenklo | RurouniJones: they're not available anywhere | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | w00t: up for faking entry into the competition? lp | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | ;p | 13:55 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: ...haha | 13:55 |
| RurouniJones | What is the release date? | 13:55 |
| SpeedEvil | RurouniJones: likely a week or two till you can get it | 13:55 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: gmta! | 13:55 |
| Arkenklo | RurouniJones: end of this monch | 13:56 |
| zerojay | Nokia doesn't do release dates. | 13:56 |
| Arkenklo | month | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | http://maemoproject.com/ is even weirder | 13:56 |
| RurouniJones | Double Bugger | 13:56 |
| Ceron^ | when is maemo.org going to show os2009 | 13:56 |
| SpeedEvil | zerojay: But if they did, they'd be the finest release dates in the world. | 13:56 |
| Ceron^ | top downloads | 13:56 |
| _berto_ | after some hours the combo box in the browser stopped working, has anyone noticed the same problem? | 13:56 |
| zerojay | SpeedEvil: pffft. | 13:56 |
| VDVsx | "Send us your contact info and win N900 or BH-95 headset"lol | 13:56 |
| SpeedEvil | _berto_: combo breaker? | 13:56 |
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| _berto_ | SpeedEvil: uh ? | 13:57 |
| zerojay | _berto_: nope. | 13:57 |
| Arkenklo | _berto_: lrn2intrnt | 13:57 |
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| _berto_ | i hit the problem a couple of times, but I don't know if there's a deterministic way to reproduce it | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | sorry | 13:58 |
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| * RST38h moos at VDVsx | 14:01 | |
| * VDVsx moo00s back | 14:02 | |
| SpeedEvil | oops. sales terms and conditions. '9. Title to products and license to software Nokia retains full legal title to products until it has received all amounts due on the ordered products in full. ' | 14:02 |
| RST38h | Sounds reasonable, albeit redundant | 14:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | Sure - however - they can't retain license to GPL products. | 14:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh. | 14:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Unless they never ship until they are paid. | 14:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Which I suppose isn't impossible. | 14:06 |
| RST38h | The statement does not say to which products nokia retains title | 14:10 |
| RST38h | and license | 14:10 |
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| RST38h | So, the GPLed stuff inside the tablets may well stay GPLed. Of course this has no practical importance :) | 14:11 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 14:11 |
| matmo | later duds | 14:12 |
| matmo | s/duds/dudes :-) | 14:12 |
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| mgedmin | so, my N900 totally oomed at me over lunch | 14:13 |
| mgedmin | I had an xterm, modest and two browser windows open | 14:13 |
| mgedmin | after staring at the task switcher screen for 10 minutes I gave up and turned it off | 14:13 |
| Stskeeps | disable flash? | 14:13 |
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| Arkenklo | mgedmin: what, it froze? | 14:15 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: After hearing how you're fucking around with kernel modules, I'm not surprised. I NEVER have these problems. | 14:15 |
| mgedmin | so, with htop how do you change the sort order? | 14:18 |
| mgedmin | there's no F6 key on my n900 | 14:18 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: esc - 6 ? | 14:18 |
| mgedmin | that's a midnight commander special | 14:18 |
| mgedmin | htop doesn't handle that, I checked | 14:19 |
| * mgedmin remarks, for reference, that after a fresh boot the n900 eats 119 megs of ram and 0 swap | 14:19 | |
| *** hrw|gone is now known as hrw | 14:19 | |
| hrw | morning | 14:19 |
| * mgedmin now has memory usage of 152 megs of ram + 42 megs of swap -- after listening to a mp3 or two and running xterm with htop | 14:19 | |
| mgedmin | curse avahi | 14:20 |
| mgedmin | for not starting up on boot | 14:21 |
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| mgedmin | um, is hildon-status-menu supposed to eat 109M just 5 minutes after boot, or did I discover my memory leak? | 14:23 |
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| ShadowJK | vsz/vsize is a useless measure :) | 14:24 |
| ShadowJK | I think in htop you can just tap the things in xterm | 14:24 |
| ShadowJK | the menu items at the bottom I mean | 14:24 |
| mgedmin | need a stylus or smaller fingers then | 14:25 |
| hrw | btw - n900 do not have any button on screen part? | 14:25 |
| ShadowJK | yeah but n900 comes with stylus, right | 14:25 |
| X-Fade | hrw: quake uses the proximity sensor for that ;) | 14:25 |
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| hrw | X-Fade: I do not care about quake - I got used to back/home buttons on n810 | 14:26 |
| X-Fade | hrw: Ah, those are all done on the touchscreen now. | 14:26 |
| X-Fade | Just swipe in from the right. | 14:26 |
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| X-Fade | And home is just long press on the top left icon. | 14:27 |
| hrw | X-Fade: but how do they work in app which is fullscreen? | 14:27 |
| ShadowJK | oh right, mouse contorl in htop doesn't work through screen.. | 14:27 |
| mgedmin | yet another way in which screen sucks | 14:27 |
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| hrw | and are there any infos when portrait mode will be available? | 14:28 |
| mgedmin | hrw, ctrl+backspace or unfullscreen the app | 14:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | Any progress on if you can recieve IR in any form? | 14:28 |
| hrw | mgedmin: ok | 14:29 |
| jeremiah | Yeah, sometimes screen gets in the way | 14:29 |
| jeremiah | I don't like what it does to emacs key bindings for example | 14:29 |
| * ShadowJK ran out of ptys on his n810 | 14:29 | |
| ShadowJK | it does something to emacs keybindings? | 14:29 |
| mgedmin | there are only 4 ptys | 14:29 |
| X-Fade | hrw: portrait was announced for this year. | 14:29 |
| hrw | X-Fade: cool | 14:29 |
| mgedmin | "portrait in web browser, hopefully for christmas" | 14:29 |
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| hrw | X-Fade: n900 is phone for me, not tablet | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | I don't think any other app will get support for portrait | 14:30 |
| jeremiah | ShadowJK: Well, screen hears Ctrl-a as a command, which in emacs is 'go to beginning of line' | 14:30 |
| * ShadowJK notes the absence of a mention WHICH christmas :D | 14:30 | |
| mgedmin | jeremiah: I changed screen's prefix to ctrl-b | 14:30 |
| jeremiah | screen thinks it means 'wait for a command' | 14:30 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 14:30 |
| X-Fade | hrw: Most extras apps already support portrait btw ;) | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | the only ctrl-letter that I'm not already using | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | most? | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | optimistic | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | some, yes | 14:30 |
| jeremiah | mgedmin: I tried that once and didn't get it to work - your screen fu is stronger than mine obviously. | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | christmas? | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Oooh! | 14:30 |
| ShadowJK | you need ^a a then? | 14:30 |
| * SpeedEvil wants a port of http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/rick/Xsnow/ | 14:30 | |
| jeremiah | ShadowJK: I think that means something to screen too | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | jeremiah: http://pastey.net/126844 | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | makes screen *almost* usable | 14:31 |
| jeremiah | mgedmin: Thanks! | 14:31 |
| jeremiah | SpeedEvil: That is pretty awesome. | 14:31 |
| jeremiah | Snow! | 14:31 |
| ShadowJK | ^a^a does, ^a a seems to suggest according to screen's help that the app would get ^a | 14:32 |
| ShadowJK | forget about xsnow, what about xanthill? ;) | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | xsnow doesn't work well with composited desktops, I think | 14:32 |
| jeremiah | ShadowJK: Thanks. :) | 14:32 |
| ShadowJK | THat's a bloody impressive piece of software too, written before Linux even existed, and compiles fine on Linux today | 14:32 |
| ShadowJK | or well, it compiled fine last time I checked, in 2003-ish.. | 14:32 |
| jeremiah | Looks like everyone's screen fu is stronger than mine. :/ | 14:32 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: It's very simple and yet fun. | 14:33 |
| chritto_ | I love how the screenshot on the website shows him running Netscape :) | 14:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | Qty/Description: 1 / Nokia N900 (SKU# 002P1Q2) Qty/Description: 1 / Nokia Battery BL-5J (SKU# 02711B5) | 14:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Order total: £ 321.80 | 14:34 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 14:34 |
| SpeedEvil | (confirmation email) | 14:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Now to see if they honor it. | 14:35 |
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| * timeless grumbles | 14:36 | |
| RurouniJones | Are there any hardware differences between the US, EU and UK (If there is a specific one) versions of the N900? Just keyboard layout? | 14:36 |
| jeremiah | SpeedEvil: So a new N900 and a battery for 321 Euros? Good deal | 14:36 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: pounds | 14:37 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: but there is 49.99 cashback on that too | 14:37 |
| jeremiah | Sorry, that is a pounds symbol | 14:37 |
| jeremiah | right | 14:37 |
| jeremiah | I am thick. | 14:37 |
| frals | still a good deal ^^ | 14:37 |
| jeremiah | Still a good deal indeed | 14:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Yes - but it may not be approved. | 14:37 |
| SpeedEvil | But - if it's much more expensive, I can't afford it - so why not. | 14:37 |
| ShadowJK | RurouniJones, there's no "EU" version | 14:37 |
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| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 14:37 | |
| RurouniJones | Ok ok, so is there a hardware difference between US and non US versions that will be sold in Europe? | 14:38 |
| nnod | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22691 | 14:38 |
| nnod | N900 battery, $3.72! | 14:38 |
| chritto_ | good luck SpeedEvil :) | 14:38 |
| RST38h | nnod: Chinese made? | 14:38 |
| ShadowJK | nnod, I hope you've insured your N900 against idiocy :) | 14:39 |
| nnod | i bought a similar one for the N810, and they have about 1/3 the capacity of the official ones | 14:39 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 14:39 |
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| mgedmin | but do they cost 1/3 the price? | 14:39 |
| RurouniJones | Holy hell, there are a lot of iPhone ripoffs on that site judging by the thumbnails :) | 14:40 |
| ShadowJK | I wouldn't call them ripoffs | 14:40 |
| nnod | ShadowJK: true, especially since one of the cheap N810 batteries I bought started smoking in my N810. the back panel was hot to touch and burned my finger. luckily there was no permanent damage apart from a burnt smell that still persists | 14:40 |
| ShadowJK | They run windows mobile is something even worse, and come with non-iphone features like java and memory cards.. | 14:40 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Wait till mer gets good enough. | 14:41 |
| ShadowJK | nnod, the fumes are toxic :-) | 14:41 |
| nnod | the good thing is dealextreme is great about sending you new stuff when it's defective | 14:41 |
| SpeedEvil | nnod: indeed. | 14:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | I want to build a dealextreme hoverboard/helicopter. I wonder if they'd sponsor me. | 14:41 |
| SpeedEvil | 150* http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15230 - 20Kg of batteries, and a whole lot of duct tape. | 14:42 |
| ShadowJK | ever noticed that they don't have anything big or heavy ;-) | 14:42 |
| nnod | SpeedEvil: i guess it's too late for the Nokia PUSH thing, you could control the helicopter with the N900 | 14:42 |
| SpeedEvil | nnod: damn that would be cool. (though illegal in the UK alas) | 14:43 |
| SpeedEvil | (as it's quite capable of free flight) | 14:43 |
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| ShadowJK | rofl at that battery, just noticed one of the comments saying it's hard to spot the difference between original and fake... I guess they didn't notice the absence of authentication code? | 14:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Yeah - you have to buy with care. | 14:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Screen protectors OTOH - I find work just fine | 14:44 |
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| ShadowJK | Even the mugen batteries that are highly regarded on t.m.o have uprated capacity in the marketing :-) | 14:45 |
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| nnod | i built my own N800 replacement battery by taking the cell out of this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8436 and soldering an old N800 battery protection circuit to it | 14:46 |
| nnod | it works pretty well | 14:46 |
| zerojayN900 | i would | 14:47 |
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| zerojayN900 | i wouldn't fuck with batteries. | 14:47 |
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| tigert | define "pretty well"? | 14:48 |
| tigert | "doesnt burst into flames too often"? :) | 14:48 |
| ShadowJK | nnod, what did you find inside the N800 battery... | 14:48 |
| nnod | tigert: heh, that and it gets about 10 hours of gps tracking | 14:49 |
| ShadowJK | got pics? | 14:49 |
| nnod | ShadowJK: it was just a lithium polymer cell in that flexible metallic shield, nothing special | 14:50 |
| ShadowJK | Oh I was just wondering what circuit you soldered onto it | 14:50 |
| X-Fade | Probably just terminals, ntc for temp and a fuse. | 14:51 |
| nnod | ShadowJK: the circuit looks like a protection circuit | 14:51 |
| nnod | the end result was superior to the supposedly 1800 mAh Mugen cells | 14:53 |
| ShadowJK | I'd expect the genuine nokia battery to have a strip running along the side, and a resistor connected to the middle pin.. I wouldn't expect any circuits inside | 14:53 |
| ShadowJK | oh the 1800mAh mugens are 1200mAh :-) | 14:53 |
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| ShadowJK | Atleast that's what mine was. It even announced itself as 1200mAh through the third pin | 14:53 |
| nnod | ShadowJK: how do you see the capacity? | 14:54 |
| ShadowJK | Well, the capacity reported by the battery itself can be seen with: lshal|grep battery.reporting.design | 14:54 |
| nnod | cool, i didn't know that | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: and it can't do that if there is no other circuitry inside other than a thermistor | 14:55 |
| ShadowJK | it's not a thermistor afaik | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | yes, it's a battery protection chip | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | probably a couple | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | it's not just a resistor | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | (if it's reporting stuff) | 14:56 |
| nnod | yeah i think only bigger laptop batteries have thermisters, atleast i've never found them in smaller packs for phones and stuff | 14:57 |
| nomis | mhm, did anyone within the developer program get feedback from the people we're supposed to send a mail to? | 14:57 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, I think they just use a different resistor to indicate different design capacities | 14:58 |
| ShadowJK | the reported design capacity varies from boot to boot, probably temperature variation | 14:58 |
| ShadowJK | The device itself has a temperature sensor near the battery though | 14:59 |
| nnod | does anyone have a bluetooth gps and n900 and a wifi connection to test a bug? | 14:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | hmm | 15:00 |
| mgedmin | nomis: no | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | oops, in that case. | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | hadn't thought of that | 15:01 |
| mgedmin | nnod: two out of three | 15:01 |
| mgedmin | I have a bluetooth gps, but it is ~800 km from my current location | 15:01 |
| nnod | mgedmin: hmm...iirc bluetooth needs to be within 10m :) | 15:01 |
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| nomis | mgedmin: ok, thanks. | 15:01 |
| mgedmin | I suppose the Forum Nokia web shop doesn't handle preordering, and I expect our discounts to be approved after the N900 actually ships | 15:02 |
| nomis | mgedmin: possible. | 15:03 |
| nomis | still a "we have received your application, here's what will happen" would be nice. | 15:03 |
| mgedmin | yes | 15:04 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 15:05 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if a thermal fuze would sow up on xray | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: it shows up better on stanley knife. | 15:05 |
| mgedmin | lithium cells are opaque to xrays, aren't they? | 15:05 |
| ShadowJK | sure... | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | mgedmin: probably moderately. | 15:05 |
| * ShadowJK notices he hasn't checked the scratchcode on his N800 battery | 15:06 | |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Three cherries, and you win a car! | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Actually - that would be a cunning promotion. | 15:07 |
| RST38h | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/20/adam_curtis_afghanistan_interview/ <=== What you probably didn't know about .AF | 15:07 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, to raise awareness of the code, yeah | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Encourage users to purchase legit bats. And how to work out the scrachcode | 15:07 |
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| ShadowJK | Also if you get just the hologram or no hologram at all, you know the merchant screwed you over and sent you either a fake or an ancient battery | 15:08 |
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| nnod | what is this scratchcode? | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a scratch-off panel on the battery | 15:10 |
| ShadowJK | All original Nokia batteries have a hologram, the hologram has this black strip on it | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | that you can use to verify the authenticity | 15:10 |
| mgedmin | you scratch the battery and sniff -- if you smell burning, the battery's a dud | 15:10 |
| ShadowJK | you can scratch the black, and it reveals a 20 digit code | 15:10 |
| ShadowJK | you enter this code into a website at nokia.com, it only works once, and it tells you if it's genuine or not | 15:11 |
| RST38h | Oh man, they are still scratching batteries | 15:11 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: My N900 doesn't have that. | 15:11 |
| Phreedom | mgedmin: if the battery isn't made by Nokia, it doesn't mean it's broken ;) | 15:11 |
| Phreedom | it probably means that it's cheaper though | 15:11 |
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| ShadowJK | X-Fade, fake! ;-) | 15:11 |
| RST38h | Are batteries locked to cell phone providers too? =) | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Phreedom: And may catch light at a higher rate than nokia batteries. | 15:11 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: Doubtful ;) | 15:12 |
| Phreedom | SpeedEvil: very unlikely | 15:12 |
| * SpeedEvil places a gag on RST38h. | 15:12 | |
| SpeedEvil | Don't give them ideas. | 15:12 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 15:12 |
| ShadowJK | my E75 doesn't either | 15:12 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if they ended it | 15:12 |
| Phreedom | SpeedEvil: at least where I live, people usually buy "dud" batteries, no troubles so far | 15:12 |
| SpeedEvil | ') nnod: ShadowJK: true, especially since one of the cheap N810 batteries I bought started smoking in my N810. the back panel was hot to touch and burned my finger. luckily there was no permanent damage apart from a burnt smell that still persists' | 15:12 |
| SpeedEvil | And a higher rate does not mean 10% or even 1%. | 15:12 |
| wazd | Damn, I really shocked how ugly Moto Droid is | 15:13 |
| Phreedom | SpeedEvil: naturally. but LiPo is usually safe | 15:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: Looks fine to me, although dpad could have been better | 15:13 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 15:13 |
| wazd | Couldn't expect that stuff from Moto | 15:13 |
| nnod | hehe | 15:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: the reql question is, of course, how that huge 856x480 screen behaves with Dalvik | 15:14 |
| RST38h | wazd: Should be slow like hell | 15:14 |
| wazd | RST38h: Droid looks like some chineese stuff - weird keyboard, simple brick design, boring bottom | 15:14 |
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| ShadowJK | Phreedom: How to fast charge LiPo, use a 15-minute NiCd charger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCWdnjLqVWw | 15:14 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: Heh, that can't be good ;) | 15:14 |
| Ceron^ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCWdnjLqVWw | 15:14 |
| glass | wazd: maybe they just bought some chinese stuffers android | 15:14 |
| Ceron^ | oops | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | lipo is safe - how? | 15:15 |
| wazd | glass: that's Motorola, fucking geniuses of InDesign! :D | 15:15 |
| X-Fade | Lipo is safe if you know what you are doing and QA is good ;) | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | It can catch fire if you misuse it, or if there are construction problems in the battery | 15:15 |
| wazd | glass: I don't beleive that they are buing stuff somewhere | 15:15 |
| glass | wazd: geniuses of production lines, or not, too | 15:15 |
| Phreedom | ShadowJK: you know the charger is in the device, not battery | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU - mechanical damage of a lipo battery | 15:15 |
| glass | wazd: well they have been in past too | 15:15 |
| ShadowJK | Phreedom, yes, but if the pack in the video had a thermal fuze it would've disconnected itself when temperature climbed :-) | 15:16 |
| Phreedom | also li-ion explodes, instead of burning :) | 15:16 |
| RST38h | wazd: They may have fired all their R&D people during reorganization :) | 15:16 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://i.afterdawn.com/storage/pictures/news/normal_MotorolaDroid-4.jpg <- keyboard looks weird | 15:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Phreedom: however - you don't know that the cell has not been pinched, dropped, or badly assembled in the case, stressing it. | 15:16 |
| Phreedom | SpeedEvil: I sure do. I drop all my devices :) | 15:16 |
| RST38h | wazd: But what I would really like to know is not the look. It is the FEEL. Motorola always managed to provide the perfect feel. | 15:16 |
| wazd | RST38h: they have released Aura after crash | 15:16 |
| wazd | RST38h: and it absolutely kicks ass | 15:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Phreedom: The bare cell is lots less robust than it is once it's inside the plastic box. | 15:17 |
| RST38h | wazd: it is girly phone :) | 15:17 |
| ShadowJK | Well Li-Ion is usually rolled up into metal cans... | 15:17 |
| ShadowJK | and polymer is inside soft bags instead :) | 15:17 |
| wazd | RST38h: I don't care, it looks damn good :) | 15:17 |
| wazd | RST38h: Droid looks more like Dev unit than some real hardware | 15:18 |
| Phreedom | ShadowJK: you know explosives + bits of metal are much more deadly than explosives alone ;) | 15:18 |
| ShadowJK | yes :) | 15:18 |
| ShadowJK | the compression helps | 15:18 |
| Phreedom | so just don't wear a belt on your pants, so that you can take them off fast, and you'll be fine with lipo :) | 15:18 |
| Phreedom | this is what I do | 15:18 |
| Phreedom | :) | 15:18 |
| Phreedom | and you can save 15eur on your n*** battery :) | 15:19 |
| wazd | RST38h: there are a lot of units that I feel nothing for, no hate no love | 15:19 |
| RST38h | wazd: Droid looks like a freaking huge screen with a keyboard to me | 15:19 |
| Phreedom | and some more money on the belt :) | 15:19 |
| RST38h | wazd: Dunno if it is good or bad really | 15:19 |
| wazd | RST38h: and I feel hate for Drid, it's disgusting somehow :) | 15:19 |
| * Phreedom runs away | 15:19 | |
| Arkenklo | RST38h: so does the n900 to me... | 15:19 |
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| wazd | RST38h: http://www.gadgetvenue.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/motorola-droid_3.jpg | 15:20 |
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| wazd | RST38h: eeeek | 15:21 |
| RST38h | wazd: is that an air exhaust? | 15:21 |
| wazd | RST38h: looks like :) | 15:21 |
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| kirma | magic smoke exhaust | 15:25 |
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| kirma | what on earth is that lower edge thing on that phone? looks hugely unstylish in my opinion. | 15:28 |
| kirma | but then again... american design... ;> | 15:28 |
| kirma | people that like fake wood panels on their station wagon must like it. somehow it looks almost kitsch retro to me. :I | 15:30 |
| kirma | and I'm particularly little into stylish things... | 15:30 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I think so too :) | 15:32 |
| kirma | UI doesn't look too bad, but the physical design, good god | 15:33 |
| * RST38h brings it to kirma's attention that Nokia isn't that good on design either | 15:33 | |
| wazd | kirma: in fact american school of design is rather good | 15:33 |
| RST38h | And US design is market driven | 15:34 |
| range | RST38h: Bah. That's fins chopping each mobile phone out of large pieces of wood. With an axe. By hand. | 15:34 |
| wazd | kirma: check out their buildings, cars, even old Moto phones | 15:34 |
| range | The plastic coating comes later on :) | 15:34 |
| RST38h | range: That is exactly how I imagined it | 15:34 |
| RST38h | range: ingredients: vodka, axe, wood | 15:34 |
| ifreq | kirma: heya :-) | 15:34 |
| wazd | I like E series design :) | 15:34 |
| kirma | wadz: well. 99% of those I find quite expelling. | 15:35 |
| range | I have a 6120 classic at the moment, and I rather liket that design. | 15:35 |
| kirma | 1% is good ;) | 15:35 |
| RST38h | Also, Moto always ruled on the physical feel of their devices, sturdy, solid | 15:35 |
| range | liket? Thingie. | 15:35 |
| RST38h | BTW, Nokia's numbered handsets are pretty well designed. N-series, on the other hand... | 15:36 |
| wazd | RST38h: and Moto alwas sucked balls in software :) | 15:36 |
| RST38h | N900 is almost like an exception: it may not have outstanding design but it is not ugly | 15:36 |
| RST38h | wazd: They did not care, enever considered it important :) | 15:36 |
| glass | moto has had too many sw baskets | 15:36 |
| RST38h | wazd: Hired shitload of sw people (about 2000 at one itme), developed for 4-5 different platforms | 15:36 |
| glass | way too many | 15:36 |
| glass | yeh | 15:36 |
| RST38h | Ended up broke | 15:37 |
| glass | and then focused not on making profit on any of them | 15:37 |
| kirma | I can't really think what tho think of the droid design, exactly... either it's designed for some strange sort of american aesthetics or the design is completely ignored as a part of the product development ;> | 15:37 |
| RST38h | Yea, the race to the bottom thing also played its part | 15:37 |
| kirma | in my opinion, N900 looks like it should and could. it's not meant to be a showpiece in its physical design, but it shouldn't make you cry blood... :) | 15:38 |
| Corsac | hmmh, does someone know about some promo codes for expansys, btw? | 15:39 |
| RST38h | kirma: more or less, yes | 15:39 |
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| ensi | hmm is there a trick to getting input in maemo? I have a Qt dialog with couple of input fields (tried with line edit and textinput) but 1) i cant set focus to these widgets 2) as soon as i start typing the system takes me to contacts application and im searching for matching contacts | 15:40 |
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| ensi | so it looks like there's a global something that is grabbing the input | 15:41 |
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| frals | doh, the solution with the least "score" on portrait mode input is the one nokia chose to implement in harmattan >_< (well, an API as well so not that big of a deal :P) | 15:41 |
| kirma | of course, in some ways iphone is masterpiece in aesthetics, but saying that it's a masterpiece in physical usability in general would be pretty misguided. in comparison to that, most nokia phones try to find a balance... and then, these "put hardware in a box" designs like droid ignore the aesthetics entirely ;)) | 15:42 |
| * ShadowJK finds all these things ugly | 15:44 | |
| kirma | somehow I suspect the amount of motorola innovation on droid is close to zero | 15:44 |
| ShadowJK | although my E75 has a stainless steel back cover. Maybe I could put it in a salt bath and get an awesome post apocalyptic rusty feel to it. | 15:44 |
| RST38h | kirma: Isn't this the same for every Andoird or WinMo phone? | 15:44 |
| Summeli | ensi: have you tried using widget->setfocus() function?-) | 15:44 |
| Summeli | it should do the trick | 15:45 |
| RST38h | kirma: You pretty much get a turn-key solution to place into your ROM | 15:45 |
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| kirma | RST38h: well, to great extent. but clever hardware design is then a considerable factor to differentiate... | 15:46 |
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| kirma | well, I mean hardware design that affects aesthetics too | 15:47 |
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| ensi | Summeli: good try but no, doesn't work any better | 15:50 |
| kirma | of course, droid has an upper edge on competition because it has new android OS and fresh hardware... but how long that is going to last? | 15:50 |
| RST38h | For Motorola, it may last for another 5-10 years :) | 15:51 |
| kirma | a bit of design thouch wouldn't have hurted... | 15:51 |
| RST38h | Remember StarTAC, then Razr? | 15:51 |
| Summeli | ensi: works for me :P | 15:51 |
| ensi | Summeli: you have a window or a dialog? | 15:51 |
| ShadowJK | what's droid, another omap3? | 15:51 |
| Summeli | maybe you could go even further, and use that setfocus on tha textedit, or line-edit, you are trying to edit | 15:51 |
| ShadowJK | with android? | 15:51 |
| Summeli | ensi: I used that for dialog | 15:51 |
| ensi | Summeli: yeah i set the focus to the first input widget | 15:52 |
| ensi | im using plain text edit now | 15:52 |
| Summeli | the setfocus does some as touching that dialog/window | 15:52 |
| ensi | its not workign, i dont get the caret | 15:52 |
| Summeli | ensi: did you try to tap the edit before writing? | 15:52 |
| ensi | ofc | 15:52 |
| kirma | did they make NMT900 startacs? anyway, I remember seeing one back around those times when GSM hadn't yet catched on properly, and somehow the droid design brings it to my mind. | 15:52 |
| Summeli | ensi: :( it just should work :( | 15:52 |
| ensi | sigh | 15:53 |
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| lopz | hi ;) | 15:56 |
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| wazd | Tough times for OMWeather came | 16:05 |
| Stskeeps | mm/ | 16:06 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 16:06 |
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| mgedmin | winds? hailstorms? hurricanes? | 16:07 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: Vlad needs some rest after Fremantle Stars tortue, Pavel (second OMW coder) can't afford the device | 16:07 |
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| Stskeeps | ah, sucks :/ | 16:07 |
| Stskeeps | they'll hopefully be able to run omweather on mer/n8x0 :P | 16:08 |
| mgedmin | what was that tortue thing/ | 16:09 |
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| wazd | mgedmin: well, deadlines, deadlines, and some more deadlines | 16:09 |
| RST38h | And after all that they neded up showcasing Foreca? | 16:10 |
| RST38h | ended up | 16:10 |
| wazd | RST38h: yep | 16:10 |
| RST38h | shame. | 16:10 |
| wazd | RST38h: and gave him n900 for half'a'year :D | 16:11 |
| RST38h | well, only because he attended the summit :) | 16:11 |
| wazd | RST38h: yep | 16:11 |
| hrw | http://mobiletablets.blogspot.com/2009/10/maemo-summit-news-n8x0-omap2-graphics.html - can someone finally tell me about which drivers it is? | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | hrw: TI guy announced open source kernel GLES 1.1, closed source lib, for MBX | 16:12 |
| wazd | hrm: OMAP2-graphics? :) | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | tested on N8x0 | 16:12 |
| RST38h | hrw: ImageTech finally broke down and agreed to release OGLES drivers for N8x0 | 16:13 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: what about limitations of 3d acceleration? | 16:13 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: like 640x480 | 16:13 |
| mgedmin | it's limited to three spatial dimensions | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: let's get them in our hands first before speculating | 16:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: I think it is an extra screen copy | 16:13 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: i doubt you'll be able to have 3d strippoker but clutter may just work. | 16:14 |
| hrw | ah.. that full-of-bugs 3d driver... | 16:14 |
| RST38h | Well, OMAP2 has got an internal screen buffer with 640x480 resolution. | 16:14 |
| hrw | clutter works with it | 16:14 |
| RST38h | I understand that OGLES renders stuff there | 16:14 |
| RST38h | Once it renders to that buffer you still need to send it to the Blizzard chip | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | hrw: things have improved, some claim | 16:14 |
| hrw | at least worked. I saw 3D demo on n810 prototype ~2 years ago | 16:14 |
| RST38h | Whether it can be done with a DMA or you need to do an extra CPU copy, I have no idea | 16:15 |
| hrw | 3d as "opengl es" | 16:15 |
| kirma | is there way to access location information in maemo 5 style from pymaemo? | 16:17 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: who needs it without strippoker?! | 16:17 |
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| lizardo | kirma: there are no bindings for location API yet (AFAIK) :( But if you feel brave, you can try accessing the C API from Python using ctypes, Jaffa had success doing that for the addressbook API | 16:19 |
| RST38h | wazd: You really want OGLES-rendered strippers? Sure? | 16:19 |
| wazd | RST38h: :D | 16:19 |
| kirma | lizardo: yep, that sort of came to my mind. | 16:19 |
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| kirma | I should first set up the SDK successfully. somehow my first try failed very convincingly... | 16:20 |
| kirma | as if the SDK installation process would have been designed to weed out non-hardcore developers ;> | 16:20 |
| RST38h | kirma: Install SDK+ | 16:21 |
| mgedmin | kirma: it probably was | 16:21 |
| RST38h | SDK+ basically installs by adding their repo and selecting packages in Aptitude | 16:21 |
| * mgedmin didn't have much luck with SDK+ a year ago | 16:21 | |
| RST38h | that was a year ago, and even then SDK+ was way easier to use | 16:21 |
| mgedmin | it installed fine, but then you couldn't apt-get install anything inside the sbox environment, making it useless | 16:22 |
| mgedmin | I hope it's better now? | 16:22 |
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| RST38h | The use case for MS Surface finally found: http://gizmodo.com/5385625/dungeons--dragons-on-the-microsoft-surface | 16:23 |
| wazd | Funny statistics: author of the most popular app for maemo earned 5 bucks a month for it from Nokia :) | 16:23 |
| RST38h | mgedmin; Well, I did apt-get install and it seemed to work for me now | 16:23 |
| mgedmin | what _is_ the most popular maemo app? | 16:24 |
| RST38h | wazd: "ne zhdi, ne boisya, ne prosi" | 16:24 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: cool! | 16:24 |
| thp | andre___: ping | 16:24 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Check Maemo Downloads? | 16:24 |
| andre___ | thp, pong | 16:24 |
| wazd | RST38h: :) | 16:24 |
| thp | andre___: bug 1129 should be reopened in my opinion. i just added a new comment. | 16:25 |
| thp | please have a look :) | 16:25 |
| andre___ | Stskeeps, you still have to workaround https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4023 and 3939 , right? :-/ | 16:25 |
| mgedmin | hey, infobot, can you fetch but titles from bugzilla when somebody mentions a bug number/url? | 16:25 |
| mgedmin | s/but/bug/ | 16:25 |
| infobot | mgedmin meant: hey, infobot, can you fetch bug titles from bugzilla when somebody mentions a bug number/url? | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | andre___: checking | 16:25 |
| etrunko | anyone had any issue with ssh in n900? | 16:25 |
| etrunko | i login to the device and a few moments later it stops responding | 16:25 |
| etrunko | searched for bugs and couldn't find anything | 16:25 |
| andre___ | thp, thanks | 16:25 |
| thp | etrunko: try to disable WiFi powersaving | 16:25 |
| mgedmin | etrunko: wifi power savings | 16:25 |
| etrunko | \o/ | 16:26 |
| Stskeeps | andre___: 4023 yes i think - i havent caught up to all sources | 16:26 |
| thp | etrunko: a workaround that has worked for me is to listen to a web radio stream on the device, which seems to make the connection more responsive.. | 16:26 |
| Stskeeps | andre___: 3939 wasn't directly fixed but we haven't checked it recently | 16:26 |
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| andre___ | hmm, okay | 16:26 |
| etrunko | thp: so it seems you can't leave the device downloading stuff then.. | 16:27 |
| thp | etrunko: i believe that as long as something is utilizing the network connection on the device, the connection will stay open / responsive | 16:28 |
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| etrunko | thp: couldn't find where to disable it | 16:32 |
| thp | etrunko: Settings -> Internet connections -> Connections -> (pick yours) -> Edit -> Next (3x) -> Advanced -> Other -> Power saving | 16:33 |
| etrunko | ouch | 16:34 |
| etrunko | very intuitive. ;) | 16:34 |
| mgedmin | easy, isn't it? | 16:34 |
| mgedmin | still, it's better than it was on a n810 | 16:34 |
| etrunko | hehe | 16:34 |
| mgedmin | where you had to go back in the middle, then disconnect, then repeat everything, then reconnect | 16:34 |
| mgedmin | thankfully you only do this once (for every wlan that has a broken access point that doesn't support power savings properly) | 16:35 |
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| VDVsx | I've a very weird bug that started to happen with the last reflash, each time I install a new app, the scroll in "more" screen disappear until I restart the device | 16:36 |
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| recalcati_ | good morning | 16:36 |
| thp | VDVsx: workaround is "killall hildon-desktop" in xterm | 16:36 |
| mgedmin | VDVsx: it passes if you lie down for a while | 16:36 |
| lcuk | etrunko, those push n900 projects are cool! | 16:37 |
| mgedmin | IIRC the bug is closed as fixed in bugzilla, we'll get the fix with the next firmware image | 16:37 |
| VDVsx | ah, I'm not the only one with this issue :) lol | 16:37 |
| lcuk | the piggy bank is a really great idea for kids | 16:37 |
| etrunko | lcuk: yeah, the guys did a great job | 16:37 |
| mgedmin | piggybank? as in, here's a piggybank for you, if you drop a pound in it every day you'll be able to buy yourself a n900 in a couple of years? | 16:37 |
| lcuk | i almost choked on my coffee when i saw the N9POV one | 16:38 |
| mgedmin | okay, I need a link now | 16:38 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, they are here http://wouwlabs.com/blogs/jeez/ | 16:38 |
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| cheater55 | hi guys | 16:39 |
| cheater55 | i was sent here from #mer :) | 16:39 |
| cheater55 | i'm wondering about the cheapest way to do this: have a mobile or landline phone number in the UK; people call this number and calls get forwarded to me over some form of internet based technology (for example skype, voip, etc). this is so that I can move freely around the world. | 16:39 |
| lcuk | cheater55, get a long extension cord | 16:40 |
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| Stskeeps | cheater55: maybe skypein instead? | 16:40 |
| cheater55 | what's skypein? | 16:40 |
| * cheater55 googles | 16:41 | |
| mihu | etrunko: I ssh a lot into my N900 and I did not know about that power saving thing either. In fact, it's now at maximum power saving. But I never encountered any problems with my ssh sessions. | 16:41 |
| w00t | power saving? | 16:41 |
| * w00t reads up | 16:41 | |
| w00t | ah | 16:42 |
| cheater55 | hmm | 16:42 |
| w00t | makes sense | 16:42 |
| vesa | how do you mean power saving? | 16:42 |
| cheater55 | that's almost exactly what i was looking for, stskeeps! | 16:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | mihu, depends on how much network activity you have. | 16:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~wifi-psm | 16:42 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, wifi-psm is http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM) | 16:42 |
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| cheater55 | great! | 16:42 |
| vesa | i can't get mine to last much over a day. perhaps i have a crap battery | 16:42 |
| mihu | GeneralAntilles: Hm, perhaps it's the fact that I have permanent contact to my Jabber account that makes the link to stay up. | 16:42 |
| X-Fade | vesa: Crappy software is more likely. | 16:42 |
| X-Fade | vesa: Or at least software which doesn't let the device sleep correctly. | 16:43 |
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| recalcati_ | I'm trying to convince my boss to book a N900. It is true that it is a development platform for maemo? I've read all the presentation, but I don't find info about N900. I also like to install QT4.5. | 16:43 |
| vesa | hmm. good point, i'll have a quick scan whats eating cpu | 16:43 |
| recalcati_ | thx | 16:43 |
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| lcuk | recalcati_, i think its 4.6 isnt it | 16:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ugh | 16:45 |
| ShadowJK | what do you mean by development platform? | 16:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3298 | 16:45 |
| w00t | recalcati_: seen http://maemo.org/development/ ? | 16:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stupid, idiotic spec. | 16:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's like it was invented by people who hate usability. | 16:45 |
| mgedmin | recalcati_: the development platform for maemo is a laptop running the maemo 5 sdk, which is a linux command-line based programming environment | 16:45 |
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| ShadowJK | dude, all UI designers hate usability and user friendliness | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | that's their job | 16:46 |
| mgedmin | the n900 is a device running maemo 5, and is indispensable for testing | 16:46 |
| mgedmin | there are various IDEs and virtual machine images built around the SDK to make development easier | 16:46 |
| recalcati_ | thx. I will use beagleboard to access jtag, instead for N900 maemo I'd like to install applications and for example do some video streaming (I have to study !!!) | 16:46 |
| w00t | GeneralAntilles: agreed | 16:46 |
| mgedmin | sure, you can do that with a n900 | 16:46 |
| vesa | X-Fade: are there known battery-eating apps (like facebook widget/rss)? | 16:47 |
| mgedmin | and some people install C compilers and build stuff directly on a n900 | 16:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre___, since I expect a lot more stupid decisions coming out of Nokia, can we shoot for more of a reporter advocacy stance than a Nokia advocacy stance? | 16:47 |
| w00t | GeneralAntilles: i think the more pertinent question is *why* was it dropped from spec :) | 16:47 |
| hrw | recalcati_: qt 4.5.3 supports maemo5. qt4.6 has it merged | 16:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | w00t, because Nokia designers are idiots. | 16:47 |
| vesa | just looking at top there's only Xorg but that's nothing special i guess | 16:47 |
| hrw | recalcati_: Kate A. from Nokia wrote something about it recently | 16:47 |
| mgedmin | vesa: I suspect the facebook widget, but currently have no evidence against it | 16:47 |
| w00t | GeneralAntilles: a slightly less inflammatory reason ;) | 16:47 |
| lcuk | :S gen | 16:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | w00t, and the spec often gets in the way of rational thought. | 16:47 |
| mgedmin | vesa: you might want to play with powertop (as root) | 16:47 |
| vesa | mgedmin: mmm, i'll take that out and see how well it fares | 16:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, you can talk when you've been fighting them since the 770 days. :) | 16:47 |
| hrw | recalcati_: check planet.maemo.org | 16:47 |
| w00t | GeneralAntilles: i suspect that it wasn't done deliberately to piss people off, so it would be interesting to know what really did lead to it | 16:48 |
| mgedmin | although igor stoppa said on the list it's not really the best tool for this | 16:48 |
| andre___ | GeneralAntilles, there's nothing explaining the reasons in the internal ticket | 16:48 |
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| * mgedmin defends Nokia designers | 16:48 | |
| GeneralAntilles | andre___, my point is that it might offer us a way forward if we change closed bugs to enhancements. | 16:48 |
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| lcuk | gen but a spec gives people defined targets and stops everybody being headless chickens | 16:48 |
| Lynoure | the FB widget does not seem very useful, as clicking on the entries does not even take me to that entry | 16:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | w00t, usually the reasoning is something along the lines of "you might hurt yourself" | 16:48 |
| recalcati_ | So, maemo 5 run on N900. I will need aslo an eclipse plugin with emulator and download through usb and step-by-step debugging | 16:49 |
| Robot101 | andre___: the problem is that this external bugzilla is the only way for public people to make requests, whereas the internal one is only about whether the software meets the spec. so maybe we need to forward this to be a bug in the spec internally, not the implementation. | 16:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, unfortunately in the case of Maemo it also gives lazy people an instant trump card. | 16:49 |
| andre___ | GeneralAntilles, my big problem is that I'm always unsure whether to keep stuff open for Harmattan. It's hard to find out :-/ | 16:49 |
| vesa | mgedmin: thanks, i'll try that | 16:49 |
| Robot101 | I've never had much luck changing (even utterly utterly broken) specs via internal bugzilla | 16:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre___, I'm inclined to say chase them down. | 16:49 |
| Robot101 | I think there's some other tool, or you have to just go and scream at them | 16:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | andre___, get a real answer, and if the answer sucks get the answer fixed. | 16:50 |
| lcuk | mornin Robot101 \o | 16:50 |
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| * w00t would agree with that | 16:50 | |
| * crashanddie is confused | 16:50 | |
| andre___ | Robot101, if something is internally WONTFIXed for Fremantle I clone them to Harmattan (if the infrastructure is already in place) | 16:50 |
| crashanddie | One of our customers is a new bank | 16:50 |
| Robot101 | GeneralAntilles: on the internal bugzilla, if you're looking at a piece of software, "the spec doesn't say its meant to do that" *is* a correct answer. | 16:50 |
| crashanddie | On the wikipedia page of the founder, it says "Hill founded Commerce Bancorp in 1973, basing its business model on that of the Burger King restaurants that he'd once owned." | 16:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because the way things are happening now sucks. | 16:50 |
| Robot101 | GeneralAntilles: the problem is this doesn't hold well on the external bugzilla, because there's no /other/ way to complain about the spec | 16:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Robot101, clearly something about our current process needs to change then. | 16:51 |
| crashanddie | so it's going to be something like "Take out a mortgage with Metro Bank, get a free Angus Burger with chips" ? | 16:51 |
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| Robot101 | GeneralAntilles: so that bugs.maemo.org has some recourse with the people who control the specs (or indeed the requirements), yes | 16:51 |
| w00t | surely the acceptable way forward would be to provide a component (or something) for a spec target? | 16:52 |
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| andre___ | that exists | 16:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Robot101, we have a product for the spec, but it's basically a black hole. | 16:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Robot101, so, we're not much better off than we were 3 years ago. . . . | 16:52 |
| andre___ | maybe we should move WONTFIX stuff to UI Spec and keep it open so it can be tried again for harmattan | 16:52 |
| crashanddie | Robot101: the community will never defined requirements | 16:53 |
| * ShadowJK would guess the spec appeal procedure goes through the Nokia Care blackhole | 16:53 | |
| w00t | andre___: yeah, that was what I meant | 16:53 |
| Robot101 | GeneralAntilles: the internal one isn't much better fwiw, its never been clear to me how you actually get through to the UI designers to discuss why you think something is busted | 16:53 |
| Robot101 | GeneralAntilles: they usually get offended and say its not a bug and invalidate it | 16:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Robot101, it feels to me like you don't. | 16:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Clearly something about that process needs to change. | 16:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Perhaps time for a new Brainstorm. <_< | 16:53 |
| Robot101 | if you run around in Helsinki and get someone to introduce you to the right person and sketch on a napkin why it's broken... :) | 16:54 |
| Robot101 | maemo.org needs napkin-waving runners | 16:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody besides me should open that one, though, because I'm just going to call them all fscking idiots. | 16:54 |
| crashanddie | new "depends" line for .debs: napkin-waving. Package napkin-waving was not found. | 16:54 |
| andre___ | ....which does not really help change things | 16:54 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: you misspelt "fucking" | 16:55 |
| Robot101 | but basically I'm saying the problem here is just echoing an internal one, its not even clear how to actually influence UI specs on the internal bugzilla. I don't think you can. | 16:55 |
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| andre___ | Robot101, heh, exactly :-/ | 16:55 |
| crashanddie | Robot101: UI is something very complicated | 16:55 |
| mgedmin | fscking is a perfectly cromulent euphemism | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, who wants to volunteer to put this issue on Brainstorm? | 16:55 |
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| crashanddie | well, from a "sell-it-to-management" perspective | 16:55 |
| Robot101 | but by all means, you should raise with N the problem that spec bugs on the public bugzilla don't seem to go anywhere | 16:55 |
| kirma | ifreq: ah | 16:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Robot101, that issue's been raised in the past and sadly it still doesn't seem to go anywhere. | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | The spec product was the result | 16:56 |
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| ifreq | kirma: youve must multitask | 16:56 |
| cheater55 | alright guys | 16:56 |
| ifreq | :) | 16:56 |
| cheater55 | thanks a lot! | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | but I don't know that anybody who actually cares actually watches that. | 16:56 |
| Robot101 | reopen the issue then :) | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | excellent | 16:57 |
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| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Now ask for commit access :) | 16:57 |
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| andre___ | I can only quote an internal comment from today: "It's better with Fremantle than in earlier releases because we had the SDKs out earlier. I hope this will get better in Harmattan as more of the code development moves to open version control and even some design/arch docs are being opened." | 16:57 |
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| w00t | GeneralAntilles: i'd be happy to sort it out if you give me a hand with the process | 16:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Robot101, just need to find somebody who can do so without impinging the virtuosity of certain people's mothers. . . . | 16:57 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: that is good. | 16:58 |
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| Robot101 | GeneralAntilles: :P | 16:58 |
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| * GeneralAntilles nominates Jaffa, actually. | 16:59 | |
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| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: Catch penguinbait the next time he is around | 17:00 |
| w00t | doesn't bother me, so long as it gets done :) | 17:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810 :P | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | 'without impinging the virtousity of certain people's mothers', qwerty12_N810 | 17:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm pretty sure he's not familiar enough with the issue. :D | 17:00 |
| zerojayN900 | lol | 17:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: I thought it's me who likes to run his mouth? ;) | 17:01 |
| zerojayN900 | qwerty, I'm now cleaning coke off my monitor thanks to you. | 17:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | :p | 17:01 |
| Robot101 | :) | 17:01 |
| zerojayN900 | everyone at work is staring. lol | 17:02 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, i always thought hildon desktop was fully open anyway | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | don't get me started on dependancies thougfh.. | 17:09 |
| * w00t presses the 'start' button | 17:10 | |
| w00t | go go | 17:10 |
| qwerty12_N810 | boom | 17:10 |
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| * mgedmin reaches for the 'stop' button | 17:11 | |
| lcuk | lol | 17:11 |
| w00t | hey | 17:11 |
| w00t | he hadn't even reached supernova point yet | 17:11 |
| w00t | ;) | 17:11 |
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| VDVsx | Question for n900 owners: what would be the best time for you for a extras-testing marathon ? week day or weekend ? | 17:13 |
| Lynoure | VDVsx: weekend or (Finnish) evening | 17:13 |
| Lynoure | But what's an extras-testing marathon? testing stuff in extras repo? Doing something else? | 17:14 |
| zerojayN900 | yeah marathon asap, plese. | 17:15 |
| qwerty12_N810 | It's where we go around thumbing down everything uploaded by VDVsx | 17:15 |
| SpeedEvil | VDVsx: After it arrives. | 17:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, awesome, VDVsx, the pleading hadn't been working so well. ;) | 17:15 |
| zerojayN900 | two more votes for my wallpaper packagek plz? | 17:16 |
| fiferboy | On a related note, go and rate personal-ip-address and personal-gprs-mon! | 17:16 |
| mgedmin | zerojayN900: remind me of the package name, please | 17:16 |
| qwerty12_N810 | simple-brightness-applet! | 17:16 |
| * VDVsx hits qwerty12_N810 and disable all his maemo fake accounts | 17:16 | |
| mgedmin | fiferboy: did you decide to revert gprs-mon to previous design? | 17:17 |
| * fiferboy has voted for both of those... | 17:17 | |
| * qwerty12_N810 must make more.... | 17:17 | |
| zerojayN900 | classic-gaming-wallpapers | 17:17 |
| javispedro | ha. Illusion of Gaia crashes drnoksnes up to the point not even the sdl parachute works. | 17:17 |
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| fiferboy | mgedmin: There is an option :) | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | ah! | 17:17 |
| pH5 | ok, it's about time for the n900 to be released. | 17:18 |
| zerojayN900 | also, try out adblock plus! | 17:18 |
| * pH5 just sat on his n810 | 17:18 | |
| zerojayN900 | lol | 17:18 |
| mgedmin | ouch | 17:18 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 17:18 |
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| pH5 | good evening :) | 17:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | pH5: Lame. I've dropped my N800 so many times, on hard surfaces and it's still alive | 17:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Evening, pH5 | 17:19 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | I dropped my N810 and the cover and battery come out >.< | 17:19 |
| pH5 | oh, dropping it can take. | 17:19 |
| pH5 | bending seems to be a problem | 17:19 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N810: ouch. That happened to me too. I need MagSafe power cable. | 17:19 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | *came | 17:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | Yet another project. | 17:20 |
| *** timeless_mbp_ is now known as timeless_mbp | 17:20 | |
| * mgedmin cracked one N810 screen, probably with his elbow, and broke another N810 stand's the intermediate positions after dropping it | 17:20 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Heh... I still think the N800 is better made :) | 17:20 |
| mgedmin | magsafe cables ++ | 17:20 |
| SpeedEvil | I've got a magsafe-alike-USB cable that sort-of-works. | 17:20 |
| SpeedEvil | I just need to get it right. | 17:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I had a Wiimote strap attached to my phone. Little did I know it was part of the batch that had a tendency to break easily... | 17:21 |
| SpeedEvil | (power + USB) | 17:21 |
| javispedro | as usual, evilQwerty. | 17:22 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Well, you already know my thoughts on the Wii itself :p | 17:23 |
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| javispedro | WA? There's now another topic about N900 shipping? | 17:25 |
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| recalcati_ | So, I book an N900 and it will be my QT and Maemo application platform ! | 17:25 |
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| recalcati_ | If install qt on N900 it goes on working as a phone ? | 17:28 |
| lcuk | javispedro, didnt you know, they renamed the site: talkaboutn900shipping.maemo.org | 17:28 |
| pH5 | :) | 17:28 |
| zerojayN900 | one more thumbs up for simple brightness. | 17:28 |
| javispedro | it will always be tmo for me. | 17:29 |
| lcuk | itt | 17:29 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Thanks, zerojay | 17:29 |
| javispedro | lcuk: touché. | 17:29 |
| zerojayN900 | thanks for making itl | 17:29 |
| zerojayN900 | . | 17:29 |
| mgedmin | recalcati_: yes | 17:30 |
| * BBNS breakfast checked, t.m.o checked, qt lab checked, engadget checked, slashdot checked ... time to go to work. | 17:30 | |
| mgedmin | btw what's the state of qt? | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | the official nokia port is not ready yet | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | how well does the community one work on a n900? | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | I've no clue | 17:30 |
| Ceron^ | just got a 300 euro bill from the hospital :( | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | and little interest | 17:30 |
| Ceron^ | how can i afford the n900 now | 17:30 |
| BBNS | mgedmin, what do you mean not ready yet? :Q | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | but I'd suggest recalcati_ research that if he wants to develop qt apps for maemo 5 | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | BBNS: the very first "technical preview" alpha version was released recently | 17:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ceron^: Put the person asking you for money in hospital... | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | and people complained that it doesn't compile | 17:31 |
| tekonivel | Ceron^: you will get another for your carpal sundrome treatment after surfing on the net with N90 ;) | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | that's all I know | 17:31 |
| BBNS | mgedmin, isn't that Qt already bundle in maemo sdk already? | 17:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, erm. | 17:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, that's of the Harmattan framework. | 17:31 |
| tekonivel | s/N90/N900/ | 17:32 |
| recalcati_ | mgedmin: thx, I hope it will be solved. By now I have only to plan the booking of the device. | 17:32 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, wheres the voting page for simple brightness | 17:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, Qt was just released officially supported. | 17:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, the community-supported version has been available forever. | 17:32 |
| X-Fade | QT4.5 is in SDK and on device by default. | 17:32 |
| BBNS | recalcati_, that's misinformed... Qt is ready. | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | well, cool then | 17:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/simple-brightness-applet/1.1-1maemo0/ - thanks! | 17:32 |
| lcuk | \o/ | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | I got the wrong impression at the summit, apparently | 17:32 |
| * lcuk is pleased qt is on device by default | 17:32 | |
| javispedro | A worrying thought: People already spam boards just to boast their post count. On tmo, spamming the board hard enough will get you a dev discount. | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | are there any qt apps in maemo 5? | 17:33 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: I thought the discounts were set | 17:33 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: and unchanging - now | 17:33 |
| Ceron^ | oh :\ | 17:33 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: I think they're already racing for n920... | 17:33 |
| mgedmin | javispedro: I hope they change discount criteria randomly to prevent people from gaming the system | 17:33 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Well, karma is sqrt(posts) there. | 17:33 |
| Ceron^ | can someone give me a dev discount | 17:33 |
| Ceron^ | D: | 17:33 |
| recalcati_ | BBNS: thx | 17:33 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, you just got your 10/10 :) | 17:33 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Possibly. I just hope my (non-karma-based) discount works - or I won't have a 900 for a while. | 17:34 |
| lcuk | tho somehow my last vote has gone 2 hours behind zerojays | 17:34 |
| tor2 | Maybe if such threads could be just moved wholesale over to offtopic, and all counts acquired from that thread would be automagically removed | 17:34 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: Hehe, racing for the button... :) | 17:34 |
| * Jaffa has just had lunch with some Forum Nokia people. They seemed quite nice, considering ;-) | 17:34 | |
| lardman | anyone with Diablo sb in front of them? | 17:34 |
| javispedro | X-Fade: so what, they just need 1,606938044e+460 posts to get a discount ;) | 17:34 |
| recalcati_ | anyway qt for maemo id qt over x11 | 17:34 |
| Jaffa | They want to turn me into a Symbian hobby developer... arargh! | 17:34 |
| tor2 | Ah, are they ultra-busy processing certains mails, perhaps? | 17:34 |
| recalcati_ | not qt on fb | 17:34 |
| mgedmin | lardman: kinda | 17:34 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: So they need 40k posts at least ;) | 17:34 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: 8*sqrt(thanks) though. | 17:35 |
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| Jaffa | IIRC | 17:35 |
| javispedro | (lol, javispedro can't make gcalctool work) | 17:35 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, nothing wrong with that lol | 17:35 |
| lardman | mgedmin: could you do an apt-cache search libsoup for me please? | 17:36 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Since you are voting... | 17:36 |
| fiferboy | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/personal-gprs-mon/0.5-3/ | 17:36 |
| javispedro | lardman: shoot | 17:36 |
| javispedro | ouch. | 17:36 |
| javispedro | i'm late. | 17:36 |
| fiferboy | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/personal-ip-address/0.3-5/ | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | lardman: no results | 17:37 |
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| javispedro | I get libsoup2.2-dev - an HTTP library implementation in C -- Development files | 17:37 |
| javispedro | libsoup2.2-8 - an HTTP library implementation in C -- Shared library | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | lardman: I've got sdk and tools repos only | 17:37 |
| lardman | hmm, ok, thanks | 17:37 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, i havent got gprs mon on | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | might be in extras | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | I only have deb-src lines for extras | 17:37 |
| lcuk | and i really hate the fact they are in different places | 17:37 |
| javispedro | yeah, they come from extras or devel (where's than whence package when you need it?) | 17:37 |
| lardman | yeah, will need to downgrade the version I'm requiring | 17:37 |
| lcuk | javispedro, ill install it | 17:37 |
| lardman | and test | 17:37 |
| lcuk | but i cant test until i have gprs data | 17:38 |
| lcuk | i have a bug at the moment tho | 17:38 |
| lardman | thanks chaps | 17:38 |
| lcuk | hi simon | 17:38 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Me neither... well, I can test the functionality by faking the GPRS data in gconf | 17:38 |
| lcuk | thats not the same | 17:38 |
| lcuk | :P | 17:38 |
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| mgedmin | I can't quite understand when gprs data counter resets | 17:38 |
| lcuk | i cant open app menu | 17:38 |
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| fiferboy | mgedmin: You do it manually through the control panel | 17:39 |
| lcuk | never | 17:39 |
| lcuk | fiferboy wrote it with 128bit ints | 17:39 |
| mgedmin | fiferboy: I never did it, yet I've seen the numbers go down | 17:39 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: Does it show a reset date? | 17:39 |
| mgedmin | dunno, I haven't looked | 17:39 |
| lcuk | qwerty has already rolled the counter round a few times with his torrent downloads ;) | 17:39 |
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| mgedmin | no, if I enable 'show reset date' I get an empty space below the numbers | 17:40 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: Strange, it should show "Never" | 17:40 |
| mgedmin | currently I see 370 kb, and I know that I ought to have at least 50 megs | 17:40 |
| mgedmin | aha! bug! :) | 17:40 |
| mgedmin | this is in compact mode btw | 17:40 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: If you go into the phone section of the control panel, what does it say for GPRS data there? | 17:40 |
| zerojayN900 | i've reported it before. | 17:40 |
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| javispedro | 128 bit ints? what, you're transferring entire universes through GPRS? | 17:40 |
| zerojayN900 | the phone flips out and erases your totals. | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | cpanel says received: 370 kB, last reset: never | 17:41 |
| fiferboy | javispedro: I beleive lcuk was speaking with his tongue in his cheek | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | reboot might reset the counters | 17:41 |
| lcuk | mmnmnnmn | 17:41 |
| zerojayN900 | andre__ looks like that bug isn't closed after all. | 17:41 |
| javispedro | I think he was speaking with bacon in his tongue ;) | 17:41 |
| zerojayN900 | no, reboot doesn't. | 17:41 |
| lcuk | mmm | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/free/source/Sources.gz 401 Unauthorized ? | 17:41 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: Okay, so GPRS mon is reporting the same? | 17:42 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: getting that too. | 17:42 |
| mgedmin | yep, | 17:42 |
| zerojayN900 | yes. | 17:42 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: You should be able to type clearly with your tongue in your cheek... | 17:42 |
| mgedmin | except for the empty space instead of 'never' | 17:42 |
| zerojayN900 | it's a phone bug, not an app issue. | 17:42 |
| frals | he got bacon on his fingers and not in his mouth! | 17:42 |
| lcuk | speech to text | 17:42 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: I haven't seen that. You are in compact mode with reset date on? | 17:42 |
| lcuk | frals, thats it - my fingers slipped | 17:43 |
| mgedmin | yes, fiferboy | 17:43 |
| mgedmin | want a screenshot? | 17:43 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: Please | 17:43 |
| zerojayN900 | fiferboy i told you about this before. | 17:43 |
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| fiferboy | mgedmin: If you remove the widget and add it again, does it work? | 17:43 |
| mgedmin | don't know, can't be bothered to find out | 17:43 |
| fiferboy | zerojayN900: About the reset date not displaying? Or the counter getting reset randomly? | 17:43 |
| zerojayN900 | random resets. | 17:44 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5622 | 17:44 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: Pinging Marcell ;) | 17:44 |
| qwerty12_N810 | fiferboy: Make a bug requesting for the headers of libconnui to be available in SB (and a library to link to, of course..) | 17:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | s/in SB/in the Fremantle SDK, nokia-binaries repo/ | 17:45 |
| infobot | qwerty12_N810 meant: fiferboy: Make a bug requesting for the headers of libconnui to be available in the Fremantle SDK, nokia-binaries repo (and a library to link to, of course..) | 17:45 |
| mgedmin | fiferboy: http://share.ovi.com/media/mgedmin.N900screenshots/mgedmin.10003 | 17:46 |
| mgedmin | also: ovi sucks | 17:46 |
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| mgedmin | can somebody write a sharing plugin for some sane picture sharing site? | 17:46 |
| fiferboy | qwerty12_N810: Actually, in the latest SDK it no longer crashes when adding a libconnui object... | 17:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre___, that was easy :roll:. | 17:46 |
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| mgedmin | what are sane picture sharing sites? | 17:46 |
| zerojayN900 | sane? | 17:46 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, flickr? | 17:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 17:46 |
| mgedmin | flickr frowns upon screenshots, iirc | 17:46 |
| lcuk | nahh | 17:46 |
| zerojayN900 | no. | 17:46 |
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| lcuk | its a photo | 17:47 |
| javispedro | they just ban your account from the mainpage. | 17:47 |
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| andre___ | GeneralAntilles, haha. now if they'd only use query internally instead of having three tickets about the same thing... | 17:47 |
| lcuk | o_O | 17:47 |
| qwerty12_N810 | fiferboy: Oh, they're already available? | 17:47 |
| zerojayN900 | flickr ftw. | 17:47 |
| lcuk | ok flickr is evil | 17:47 |
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| * mgedmin uses flickr for photos | 17:47 | |
| lcuk | lol | 17:47 |
| qwerty12_N810 | fiferboy: Or a ConIC object? | 17:47 |
| * lcuk just takes photos | 17:47 | |
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| fiferboy | qwerty12_N810: Well, it still doesn't like it, but it doesn't crash | 17:47 |
| lcuk | moved imageselect into the lib | 17:47 |
| fiferboy | qwerty12_N810: Oops, ConIC object, sorry | 17:47 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | fiferboy: Yeah, I still think filing a bug requesting libconnui's -dev package to be available in nokia-binaries. Case in point: Personal GRPS (GPRS, sorry ;)) Monitor and its usage of GConf directly, when Nokia already have this sorted out... | 17:49 |
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| javispedro | qwerty12_N810: ask for icd2 when you file that bug too ;) | 17:49 |
| javispedro | ah well, only -dev packages. | 17:50 |
| javispedro | nm. | 17:50 |
| TomaszD | where should I report the fact that the newest PC Suite assumes the n900's language is always English? | 17:50 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Well, it's like what libconic is to icd2 and what libosso is to mce | 17:50 |
| javispedro | aka something that won't ever be fully opened. | 17:51 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: I was able to reproduce the reset date not showing up, now to see if I can fix it... | 17:53 |
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| fiferboy | mgedmin: I think I have fixed the bug, just need to test. | 17:55 |
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| crashanddie | ~lart idiots on t.m.o | 17:56 |
| * infobot frags idiots on t.m.o with his BFG9000 | 17:56 | |
| crashanddie | infobot: cookie | 17:56 |
| infobot | Hey crashanddie, roflao is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEWgs6YQR9A | 17:56 |
| crashanddie | hmm? | 17:56 |
| * javispedro clicks link hoping its not goatse | 17:56 | |
| * javispedro closes window and bans infobot | 17:57 | |
| crashanddie | javispedro: agreed | 17:57 |
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| crashanddie | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=352667#post352667 | 17:58 |
| * absolute searches for a firefox plugin that will exit his browser anytime n900 is entered into a search box | 17:59 | |
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| crashanddie | read the two-before-last post | 17:59 |
| lardman | lcuk: sorry, hi, missed your comment | 18:00 |
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| Macer | full metal jacket is exactly like real boot camp.. it is amazing | 18:04 |
| Macer | :) | 18:04 |
| lcuk | hey lardman | 18:04 |
| lardman | hmm, shall I write in that thread my proposal to just multiply all TMO karma by 0.0000000000001 | 18:05 |
| lardman | ? | 18:05 |
| javispedro | lardman: NO THANKS! | 18:05 |
| lardman | hi lcuk | 18:05 |
| lardman | javispedro: careful, if you disagree I'll one touch band and clean you ;) | 18:05 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: Please do, then I can use that No Thanks! button on you ;) | 18:05 |
| zerojayN900 | lol | 18:05 |
| lardman | s/band/ban | 18:05 |
| zerojayN900 | no thanks flood before the next device discount. heh | 18:06 |
| lardman | well I don't think we should have a "No thanks" button | 18:06 |
| lardman | but "Thanks" is not really being used the way it should be | 18:06 |
| javispedro | We should have "Thanks", "I agree", and "FINISH HIM!" buttons. | 18:06 |
| lardman | yeah | 18:06 |
| lcuk | we need complex karma, multiply it by sqrt(-1) | 18:06 |
| lardman | at least the first 2 | 18:06 |
| absolute | haha | 18:06 |
| qwerty12_N810 | The karma whore side of me will cry if there is a No Thanks! button | 18:06 |
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| zerojayN900 | lol | 18:07 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: rofl | 18:07 |
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| lcuk | haha | 18:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 18:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | No Thanks! will just be vindictive. | 18:07 |
| lardman | indeed | 18:07 |
| lardman | is a bad thing | 18:07 |
| lcuk | i like the slashdot way | 18:07 |
| lcuk | multiple moderation types | 18:08 |
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| lcuk | and configurable scores for viewing | 18:08 |
| Corsac | isn't it a bit too late for n900 developer program anyway? | 18:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, we don't have enough users for that. | 18:08 |
| lcuk | well i wondered that - if someone with nearly 200 karma could work hard enough to become eligable | 18:08 |
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| javispedro | to be honest, I'd prefer not to be innovative in this aspect and just follow what IPB or vB or whatever tmo uses guidelines. | 18:09 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, yet | 18:09 |
| lardman | as we discussed at the summit, what is karma even for, that's the first thing to establish | 18:09 |
| Corsac | lcuk: is karma 13 “nearly 200”? | 18:09 |
| lcuk | yeah | 18:09 |
| * Corsac hides | 18:09 | |
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| lardman | e.g. dev devices, use for new people to know if you know what you're talking about, etc., etc. | 18:09 |
| lcuk | if you squint a bit | 18:09 |
| crashanddie | lardman: they'd get it wrong and divide by 0.0000000000001 | 18:09 |
| lcuk | and set the high mark to over 9000 | 18:09 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Personally, a Reputation system, instead of Thanks!, would be slightly more closer to karma in the way that you can thumb up/down posts | 18:09 |
| lardman | lol | 18:10 |
| X-Fade | The whole idea of karma is to make contributors visible. | 18:10 |
| * zerojayN900 clicks the Finish Him! button. | 18:10 | |
| crashanddie | I would rather see an intelligence meter | 18:10 |
| crashanddie | so that you could actually "dumb" up/down posts | 18:10 |
| lcuk | we should just use the same algorithm as that puts lardman on the front page | 18:10 |
| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 18:10 | |
| lardman | indeed :) | 18:10 |
| crashanddie | there's an algorithm that puts lardman on the front page? | 18:11 |
| javispedro | Did you hear that rumour about "The lardman paradox" X-Files episode? | 18:11 |
| lcuk | liqbase physics view on the front with all the people | 18:11 |
| lardman | that's just inertia, I've been transitioning away from the front page for the past 8 months, just starting to accelerate now | 18:11 |
| lcuk | haha | 18:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: He's VIP, didn't you know? He's been a part of maemo.org since 1970... | 18:11 |
| lardman | :D | 18:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hell, he's the real admin, not X-Fade | 18:11 |
| lcuk | Strodingers bacon | 18:11 |
| X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: I deny everything. | 18:12 |
| javispedro | lcuk: can be eaten and vomited at the same time? | 18:12 |
| lcuk | if theres an x-files episode - who is mulder and who is scully? | 18:12 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: schroedinger? | 18:12 |
| * SpeedEvil puts on the Bloodhound Gang. | 18:12 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | X-Fade: Heh | 18:12 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: helena is scully, fo so | 18:12 |
| crashanddie | fox would probably be jaffa | 18:13 |
| lcuk | its only got that spelling after you open the textbox | 18:13 |
| lcuk | until then, the spelling is undetermined | 18:13 |
| Corsac | :)) | 18:13 |
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| crashanddie | sounds like a bad version of pandora's box | 18:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, we opened the box. You spelled it wrong. | 18:13 |
| crashanddie | "let's see if you are a virgin" | 18:13 |
| Corsac | I currently wear my “schrœdinger's cat is dead” shirt | 18:13 |
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| lcuk | not in my universe | 18:13 |
| javispedro | seriously. Still need a good explanation for the lardman paradox. | 18:14 |
| crashanddie | javispedro: what is the paradox? | 18:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, sssh. | 18:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, don't anger him. | 18:14 |
| lcuk | until you open the link, you do not know if lardman exists or not | 18:14 |
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| javispedro | crashanddie: he's _always_ (or nearly always) on the "random members" section in m.o frontpage | 18:14 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: He'll ban you... He's the maemo.org admin, and a Talk Super Moderator... | 18:14 |
| lardman | he is omnipresent, that's your problem | 18:14 |
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| lcuk | its just random luck | 18:15 |
| lardman | javispedro: afaict I'm always there and have been for something like 6 months | 18:15 |
| lcuk | no you arent | 18:15 |
| javispedro | lcuk: random luck for 6 months? | 18:15 |
| javispedro | thus the paradox. | 18:15 |
| lcuk | you are just there when you look | 18:15 |
| lardman | if only my luck would move to lottery numbers... ;) | 18:15 |
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| javispedro | there MUST be a logical and scientific explanation. | 18:16 |
| *** cheater55 has left #maemo | 18:16 | |
| javispedro | like, what's "lardman"'s md5 hash? | 18:16 |
| javispedro | I dunno. | 18:16 |
| qwerty12_N810 | X-Fade takes a monthly sum from lardman's account | 18:16 |
| lardman | lol | 18:16 |
| SpeedEvil | e0bb4c448b67a77c6e7408bd4b601c17 | 18:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm inclined to blame X-Fade. | 18:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Clearly there are kickbacks involved. | 18:16 |
| lcuk | lardman, when you do the lottery, your picture comes up every time, its just you cant enter "lardman" as a number | 18:17 |
| lardman | probably payback for my missing karma | 18:17 |
| crashanddie | [16:15] <lardman> he is omnipresent, that's your problem <-- lardman talks about himself in third person | 18:17 |
| javispedro | lcuk: lol | 18:17 |
| X-Fade | Everybody who complains instantly gets karma: -1 ;) | 18:17 |
| lardman | I like that | 18:17 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: your honour, I'd like to file a complaint | 18:17 |
| crashanddie | and yet another anti-karma tool :) | 18:17 |
| GAN900 | X-Fade, as soon as my Talk karma comes back I'll have it to spare! | 18:18 |
| javispedro | well, I just refreshed m.o and now VDVsx was there for second time in a row. Time for another X-Files ep? *cue X-Files tune* | 18:18 |
| GAN900 | Just you wait! | 18:18 |
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| *** zz_jhford is now known as jhford | 18:18 | |
| javispedro | argh, now it's cached for the day I guess. | 18:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GAN900: It's never gonna come back. Muhahahahaha | 18:18 |
| * absolute builds a shrine | 18:18 | |
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| crashanddie | common point between all those on random members: nicknames all begin with a consonant | 18:19 |
| pupnik | i wonder what it is called if someone talks about themselves talking about themselves in third person, in third person | 18:19 |
| javispedro | metametadescription? | 18:19 |
| crashanddie | pupnik: schyzostutter | 18:20 |
| crashanddie | pupnik: schyschyzozophrenia | 18:20 |
| lcuk | 3rd^2 person, 9th person | 18:20 |
| javispedro | lol | 18:20 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, I've some privileges now ;) | 18:20 |
| absolute | :) | 18:20 |
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| javispedro | VDVsx: hehe | 18:20 |
| X-Fade | GAN900: http://maemo.org/profile/view/generalantilles/ | 18:20 |
| X-Fade | ^^^ do check that out ;) | 18:21 |
| * javispedro films GAN's face | 18:21 | |
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| zerojayN900 | javis... | 18:21 |
| absolute | For the record... these single solar cell battery charger pack things... don't waste your time... this is the biggest piece of junk i've bought for $25 in some time... it needs BRIGHT, direct light... yesterday was the first time i saw the led light come on when it was under the sun and it didn't even get a full charge... its overcast today and its not charging at all :( | 18:21 |
| recalcati | One more question: an application for qt4 for maemo (x11) can be ported to qt-embedded ? | 18:21 |
| * qwerty12_N810 hopes he does not run into javispedro in a bush near him | 18:21 | |
| lardman | X-Fade: has TMO been scrubbed? | 18:21 |
| pupnik | absolute: thanks | 18:21 |
| VDVsx | btw X-Fade , do you know who is the responsible for this page/email: http://maemo.org/news/jobs/ ? | 18:22 |
| lardman | X-Fade: or is now part of discussion? | 18:22 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Nah, it was probably down. | 18:22 |
| pupnik | impressive bug reporting GAN900 | 18:22 |
| lardman | ah ok | 18:22 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: Me of course | 18:22 |
| zerojayN900 | javis.. check the no thanks thread. i had to do it. | 18:22 |
| absolute | I might buy a more expensive one meant for less direct light to test it out, but cheapie is no-go | 18:22 |
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| tor2 | absolute: How big is that thing? Area, I mean. | 18:23 |
| absolute | tiny, umm | 18:23 |
| aloril | I guess there is not yet project like this for Maemo yet? "Canonical developers aim to make Android apps run on Ubuntu" http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/canonical-developers-aim-to-make-android-apps-run-on-ubuntu.ars | 18:23 |
| javispedro | zerojay: :D lol | 18:23 |
| zerojayN900 | hehehe | 18:23 |
| aloril | also I guess it will eventually happend -> Maemo is superset | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | aloril: old - they haven't released anything yet | 18:23 |
| X-Fade | absolute: Anthing under 6W, don't bother. | 18:23 |
| * absolute looks for a ruler to no avail... but its about 2" x 4" or so? | 18:23 | |
| absolute | about half inch thick | 18:23 |
| absolute | single cell | 18:23 |
| cosmo | fremantle devs: scratchbox 1 or 2? | 18:23 |
| absolute | err, single panel | 18:24 |
| javispedro | cosmo: 1. faster. | 18:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, ahahaha | 18:24 |
| cosmo | javispedro: really, is there real speed advantage? | 18:24 |
| absolute | the closest thing i have to measure is the battery from my e62... its about the size of that but an inch and a half longer | 18:24 |
| absolute | bp-5l battery | 18:25 |
| javispedro | cosmo: currently, definitely. sb2 was improving though. | 18:25 |
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| cosmo | sb2 would be much nicer, but not sure if it will really work | 18:25 |
| javispedro | (or so they say) | 18:25 |
| recalcati | it seems possible looking at the declaration: "Deploy your Qt for Maemo applications to Symbian, Windows Mobile and embedded Linux" . But I imagine that maemo5 run only with some dependencies, included x11. | 18:25 |
| javispedro | cosmo: both work, debian lenny amd64 here. | 18:25 |
| recalcati | Qt for Maemo application can run on embedded linux, that it means qt-embedded | 18:25 |
| mgedmin | is the nokia battery naming scheme explained somewhere? | 18:26 |
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| ShadowJK | I wish I could buy a BL-10C in europe | 18:26 |
| _julian | hi | 18:26 |
| lcuk | recalcati, are you a qt developer currently? | 18:26 |
| _julian | anyone here familiar with lightmediascanner? | 18:26 |
| ShadowJK | I'd duct-tape it to my 6230 | 18:26 |
| tor2 | absolute: That area shounds way too small to provide any useful wattage. If you could get one 12"x12" or thereabouts, then maybe. | 18:26 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Should look a lot better now. | 18:27 |
| tor2 | s/shounds/sounds/ | 18:27 |
| infobot | tor2 meant: absolute: That area sounds way too small to provide any useful wattage. If you could get one 12"x12" or thereabouts, then maybe. | 18:27 |
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| absolute | tor2: there's like a 1400mAh battery inside this thing... that battery charges in the light over so many hours | 18:27 |
| absolute | and then you charge off of the battery | 18:27 |
| absolute | not directly from the panel | 18:27 |
| recalcati | lcuk: no, my normal work is bsp board support. And also I have to understand maemo opportunities for my company. We use qt from 3.3.4 version anyway | 18:27 |
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| tor2 | Ok so you really charge from that 1400 mAh battery then. | 18:27 |
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| tor2 | Still, the area is small. | 18:28 |
| absolute | yes | 18:28 |
| ShadowJK | absolute, all solar panels need direct sunlight. Even if it sits in direct sunlight but is misoriented it will give lots less power :) | 18:28 |
| lcuk | recalcati, well the idea is to simply use qt latest 4.6 or whatever on the device | 18:28 |
| * tor2 glares at the infobot | 18:28 | |
| ShadowJK | overcast is like factor of 10 difference in power output or something... | 18:28 |
| X-Fade | These massive panels on a roof only do about 70W or so. | 18:28 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 18:28 |
| lcuk | depending on location | 18:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, I'm keeping a screenshot of that around to warn people off from crossing you in the future. :D | 18:28 |
| X-Fade | Don't expect any useful output out of these little ones. | 18:28 |
| X-Fade | This isn't your casio calculator ;) | 18:29 |
| absolute | the fact remains, after having it sitting in my window for some time, it doesn't seem to even charge regularly... there are ones with multiple cells though | 18:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha, Jaffa, you suuuck! :P | 18:29 |
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| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: now hope no one at Nokia DPP wasn't watching Karma page and left you without device ;) | 18:29 |
| recalcati | yes, but, looking at documentation, it seems that qt4.latest is ported to maemo (qwerty input and other mobile optimizations) , but it is x11, and qt-embeeded is fb based | 18:29 |
| tor2 | ShadowJK: Some panels can't take direct sunlight though. There are solar cells on my voltmeter, and the user manual says never to put it in direct sunlight. The meter needs so little juice though that just putting it in a lit room is sufficient for hours. | 18:30 |
| lcuk | recalcati, yes, you are best to play in x11 - its where the rest of the apps live | 18:30 |
| javispedro | oh, nokia is going to actually market the n900? | 18:30 |
| ShadowJK | tor2, well the obviously looked at power drain and the amount of light present indoors, and picked a panel big enough, which happened to fit the device thanks to the low power draw :) | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: looks like it | 18:31 |
| tor2 | Yup, the right equipment for the right job | 18:31 |
| lcuk | javispedro, why wouldnt they? its spectacular | 18:31 |
| ShadowJK | javispedro, question is whether it'll be helpful or not | 18:31 |
| recalcati | lcuk: yes, but my other products use qt4.5 embedded | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33166 , www.maemoproject.com .. etc | 18:31 |
| javispedro | I though they wouldn't like "the populate" buying step4 of 5. | 18:32 |
| X-Fade | The movie we saw at the summit of which that project website is a small part, was impressive. | 18:32 |
| lcuk | recalcati, is there really a big difference? go speak on #qt about it | 18:32 |
| Robot101 | recalcati: qt-embedded is end of line now, they're just using (normal) qt in maemo from now on | 18:32 |
| Robot101 | so it's qt 4.6 on X11 | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | if they could advertise N97, they can advertise n900. | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:32 |
| Robot101 | not qt-embedded or framebuffer | 18:32 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: wonder of wonders, N97 is still more expensive than N900 here. | 18:33 |
| mgedmin | every time I drive past a large N97 billboard it reminds me of the n900 | 18:33 |
| mgedmin | they look pretty similar from a distance | 18:33 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: was thinking exactly the same. | 18:33 |
| ShadowJK | Stskeeps, "advertise" as in 1 hour talk about facebooks? ;-) | 18:33 |
| crashanddie | mgedmin: the hint is in the name: "Nokia N-Series" | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: facebook twitter flickr | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there a speaking IRC client? | 18:33 |
| mgedmin | what hint? | 18:33 |
| crashanddie | [16:34] <mgedmin> they look pretty similar from a distance | 18:34 |
| absolute | i don't know of one, i'm sure you could do a plugin to send it to text2speech | 18:34 |
| mgedmin | well, so? N800 is also "Nokia N-Series", but it doesn't look anywhere close | 18:34 |
| pupnik | a cpu speed graph would be fun to see | 18:34 |
| absolute | but then everyone would talk in the same voice | 18:34 |
| absolute | that would suck | 18:34 |
| absolute | you'd have tow ork that out somehow | 18:34 |
| mgedmin | hash nicknames to random voices | 18:34 |
| vladovg | hi | 18:34 |
| mgedmin | sort of like nick colorization works | 18:34 |
| recalcati | Robot101: really??? no more qt on frame buffer? | 18:34 |
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| tor2 | Just record some folks at the next summit | 18:35 |
| pupnik | nie idea mgedmin | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | recalcati: what do you mean by "no more"? | 18:35 |
| lcuk | wait. what. | 18:35 |
| lcuk | http://www.wimp.com/superconductingtrain/ | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | maemo always relied on x11 | 18:35 |
| lcuk | watch till end | 18:35 |
| SpeedEvil | mgedmin: Who gets Jessica Rabbit? | 18:35 |
| Robot101 | mgedmin: I don't know whether qt on framebuffer is supported, but qt-embedded (ie, qtopia, the whole phone platform based around qt) isn't developed any further | 18:35 |
| Robot101 | er, recalcati | 18:36 |
| recalcati | My knowledge is qt-x11 != qt-embedded | 18:36 |
| tor2 | that page gives me 'flash wanted', but there's flash according to any other site. | 18:36 |
| Robot101 | the naming is confusing. qt itself can draw with x11, framebuffer, etc etc | 18:36 |
| lcuk | recalcati, have you done qt framebuffer stuff in maemo before? | 18:36 |
| recalcati | yes, but the name has chnged many times | 18:36 |
| tor2 | flash required actually | 18:36 |
| Robot101 | qt-embedded is a bunch of stuff on top of qt, used to be called qtopia, which is for a phone kinda thing | 18:36 |
| Robot101 | qt-embedded is end of line | 18:36 |
| Robot101 | I don't know whether this makes any difference to whether qt itself will continue to support framebuffer | 18:37 |
| Robot101 | but from the perspective of maemo its irrelevant - maemo uses x11 | 18:37 |
| hrw | qt/e died long time ago | 18:37 |
| aloril | Stskeeps: yeah, what I'm thinking its not Android vs Maemo, but more Android apps also mean eventually more software for Maemo too; personally I like easy 'porting' of Linux apps to Maemo | 18:37 |
| Robot101 | so qt on maemo will also use x11, and there will be no qt-embedded | 18:37 |
| pupnik | qt on portables better be faster than qt on desktop | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | It's flux pinning lcuk - the magnetism sort of gets locked in the superconductor - though not really | 18:37 |
| recalcati | yes, I knew qt-embedded, the old one, is obsolete. but qt 4.5 directly write on fb, anyway | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | aloril: maemo can fit android apps, android can't fit maemo apps :) | 18:37 |
| hrw | Robot101: you can use qt/e even on x11 - via qvfb which makes it even slower | 18:37 |
| Robot101 | recalcati: what are you trying to ask exactly? | 18:37 |
| aloril | Stskeeps: right, so Maemo is superset | 18:38 |
| lcuk | yeah SpeedEvil its like evil cats with buttered toast taped to their back | 18:38 |
| recalcati | Robot101: I have some 200Mhz,300Mhz devices, and I'd like to go on w/o x11 | 18:38 |
| recalcati | but, maybe, x11 can be handled as well | 18:38 |
| recalcati | Da Vinci family | 18:39 |
| *** cirzgamanti`` is now known as cirzgamanti | 18:39 | |
| mgedmin | hm, developing on a n900 and deploying on custom 200 mhz devices -- probably not a good plan | 18:39 |
| absolute | I've got my SDK installed, but i've still got no good ideas rattling around this skull for apps i want... each time i think of the things i use daily, i keep remembering most of them are already ported to mamemo anyways... | 18:39 |
| javispedro | lcuk: cool. | 18:40 |
| pupnik | worse than developing on a 3ghz PC and deploying on N810 mgedmin ? | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | I've read blog posts claiming that gtk or qt over x11 is faster than gtk or qt over the framebuffer, contrary to popular myths | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: The more commercially interesting fact is that you can do it with only permenant magnets and copper, and get a totally passive track IMO. | 18:40 |
| recalcati | mgedmin: no, instead, it is a good plan. Developing on pc, deploying on N900 the packages, but also integrating in omap and Da Vinci industrial devices. | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | ah, okay, industrial stuff | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | then you won't stuff it full of fancy effects that need a 600 mhz cpu to run | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: http://www.askmar.com/Inductrack/inductrack.html | 18:40 |
| recalcati | mgedmin: anyway, I'm trying to understand and, I hope, the N900 will give me some help. | 18:41 |
| * javispedro abuses maglev in openttd | 18:41 | |
| recalcati | omap is 600Mhz armv7 , but Da Vinci 300Mhz armv5, but I'll do different things | 18:41 |
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| Khertan_ | Hello ! | 18:42 |
| javispedro | hi | 18:42 |
| lcuk | hi Khertan_N900 \o/ | 18:42 |
| *** Wooly has joined #maemo | 18:42 | |
| Khertan_ | heya lcuk | 18:42 |
| Wooly | hey all | 18:42 |
| Khertan_ | hi Wooly | 18:42 |
| lcuk | hi Wooly | 18:42 |
| lcuk | you enjoying yourself Khertan_ | 18:43 |
| Khertan_ | a question, someone know if "edit" icon come from the theme | 18:43 |
| Wooly | does anyone know why this Python code would give a GTK_IS_TEXT_LAYOUT assertion error? http://pastie.org/662144 | 18:43 |
| Khertan_ | lcuk: :) | 18:43 |
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| lcuk | got your sdk working on device now? | 18:43 |
| Wooly | the assertion error occurs on line 5 | 18:43 |
| Khertan_ | lcuk: PyGTKEditor isn't finish | 18:43 |
| Khertan_ | lcuk: but it s in progress | 18:43 |
| lcuk | but its coming - i had it installed a while back | 18:44 |
| lcuk | yeah i know :) | 18:44 |
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| Khertan_ | i ve finnaly put auto rotation support :) | 18:44 |
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| Khertan_ | and ... nope ... without doing a fork of gtksourceview | 18:44 |
| Khertan_ | just tweaking a bit the signal | 18:44 |
| * lardman heads for home | 18:44 | |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|gone | 18:45 | |
| Khertan_ | i ve take a look in the hildon.textview source code in gitorius :) | 18:45 |
| Khertan_ | Wooly: i ll look | 18:45 |
| Wooly | Khertan_: thanks :) I'm sure it's something stupid | 18:45 |
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| mgedmin | Wooly: no, but in gtimelog I did it differently for some reason: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mgedmin/gtimelog/trunk/annotate/head:/src/gtimelog/gtimelog.py#L1104 | 18:46 |
| absolute | i'm going to have to brush up on my c a bit too, my job entails a lot of java... so at this point, GTK is the best route for something that will run both on the mobile as well as my regular desktop environment? I'm kinda confused though about the delineation between hildon stuff and GTK | 18:46 |
| mgedmin | hildon is built on top of gtk | 18:47 |
| absolute | it seems like they both are involved with windowing and such | 18:47 |
| absolute | ahh | 18:47 |
| mgedmin | hildon api functions have names with hildon in the name | 18:47 |
| lcuk | hildon is a set of gtk classes and components | 18:47 |
| mgedmin | it adds custom widgets on top of base gtk widgets | 18:47 |
| absolute | oh ok, nice | 18:47 |
| tor2 | absolute: You just replace some key calls with some others (hildon-specific), and includes a couple of extra header files | 18:47 |
| Wooly | mgedthanks, I'll take a look | 18:47 |
| Wooly | mgedmin: thanks :D | 18:47 |
| Wooly | silly tab complete | 18:47 |
| mgedmin | I wonder why I didn't use scroll_to_iter | 18:48 |
| Khertan_ | scroll_to_iter | 18:48 |
| mgedmin | either I didn't know about it (unlikely), or it was added in a newer gtk version (possible) or I had problems for it (possible) | 18:48 |
| Khertan_ | is a method of gtk.TextView | 18:48 |
| Khertan_ | not gtk.TextBuffer | 18:48 |
| Wooly | self.debug is a gtk.TextBuffer | 18:49 |
| mgedmin | yes? | 18:49 |
| mgedmin | so is scroll_to_mark, iirc | 18:49 |
| Khertan_ | sorry i read self.debug_buffer instead of self.debug | 18:49 |
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| Wooly | self.debug_buffer = self.debug.get_buffer() | 18:49 |
| Wooly | ah that's cool (Y) | 18:49 |
| mgedmin | s/for/with/ | 18:49 |
| absolute | So with hildon now being a part of gnome, does that mean that those apps will just work natively in gnome on my desktop? | 18:49 |
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| mgedmin | absolute: if you're asking whether you can write one piece of code and have it look native in maemo 5 and in desktop linux, then: no | 18:50 |
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| Khertan_ | Wooly: are you sure that your buffer is connected to the textview ? | 18:50 |
| absolute | ok, so basically, you'd build the GTK app, and then wrap it (or modify it) with some hildon specific stuff and rebuild for the portable | 18:50 |
| Wooly | Khertan_: http://pastie.org/662155 | 18:51 |
| absolute | fair enough | 18:51 |
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| mgedmin | not just modify, practically redesign the ui | 18:51 |
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| mgedmin | different screen size, different dpi, different paradigms | 18:51 |
| Wooly | mgedmin: that depends on whether your desktop has a really small screen ;) | 18:51 |
| mgedmin | e.g. desktop is keyboard-navigable, maemo 5 isn't | 18:51 |
| Khertan_ | couldn't be more simple | 18:51 |
| Khertan_ | strange | 18:51 |
| absolute | ahh ok | 18:51 |
| X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: Screenshot! | 18:51 |
| Wooly | mgedmin: and you cant afford a keyboard :D | 18:51 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, absolute was saying about designing an app using gtk | 18:51 |
| mgedmin | there were good talks about this topic at the summit | 18:51 |
| mgedmin | the slides are in the wiki | 18:52 |
| tor2 | That been said, it's still possible to design&test on the desktop. You just start out with 800x480 in mind. | 18:52 |
| lcuk | that can imply making it as you suggest | 18:52 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | X-Fade: Crap, I didn't know it appears in the downloads listing... Sure thing :) | 18:52 |
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| lcuk | yes tor2 | 18:52 |
| absolute | oh yeah... I guess as long as some sort of MVC route is followed, it just means rewriting the view classes | 18:53 |
| lcuk | and different dpi thinking | 18:53 |
| tor2 | yep | 18:53 |
| lcuk | so biiiig fonts and biiiig buttons | 18:53 |
| X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: Yeah, it gets imported automatically now. | 18:53 |
| lcuk | and not thinking "oooh an 8pt font will look good for my stuff | 18:53 |
| tor2 | With my little stuff I start on the desktop and then at some point I move over to the real thing. | 18:53 |
| lcuk | think "mmm maybe 24pt will do" | 18:53 |
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| * lcuk designs in visual basic :$ | 18:54 | |
| Khertan_ | Wooly: i didn't see anything wrong | 18:54 |
| *** jhford is now known as zz_jhford | 18:54 | |
| absolute | hehe | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | If you've got a 21" monitor, just back off to 6 times your normal phone viewing distance, and you're fine. | 18:54 |
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| lcuk | lol SpeedEvil | 18:54 |
| absolute | vb-- | 18:54 |
| lcuk | good idea | 18:54 |
| lcuk | vb++ actually | 18:54 |
| * tor2 eyes the very long keyboard cable on the shelf | 18:54 | |
| absolute | karma vb? | 18:54 |
| javispedro | ~karma vb | 18:54 |
| infobot | vb has neutral karma | 18:54 |
| Wooly | Khertan_: this thing is annoying me, as it's crashing my app :( | 18:54 |
| lcuk | absolute, look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGUKICDeok the presentation part was laid out in vb | 18:55 |
| lcuk | dynamically loaded | 18:55 |
| Khertan_ | Wooly: i can understand ... i pass 4 days trying to understand how to make working a gtksourceview in a pannablearea | 18:55 |
| Khertan_ | Wooly: did you have the complete code somewhere ... i ll try to launch it on my nit and try to see what s wrong | 18:56 |
| lcuk | Khertan_, why do you need a pannable for a source editor? | 18:56 |
| mgedmin | googling for GTK_IS_TEXT_LAYOUT hints that it could be a bug | 18:56 |
| Khertan_ | lcuk: because using small scroll bar is a real pain on maemo5 | 18:56 |
| mgedmin | in gtk/pygtk | 18:56 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_: you should've used Qt | 18:56 |
| _berto_ | where does the n900 media player take cover images from ? | 18:56 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_: o/ | 18:56 |
| mgedmin | lcuk: panning rules | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | everything should be pannable | 18:57 |
| Wooly | Khertan_: I dont think I can disclose the entire source, as it's a big secret | 18:57 |
| Khertan_ | crashanddie: binding not available yet on fremantle ... no pyside, no pyqt | 18:57 |
| Wooly | Khertan_: the company that I work for wouldn't be happy :( | 18:57 |
| Jaffa | _berto_: The MediaArt spec. There's also a Google Images plugin pvanhoof wrote, but I need to submit a patch for that. | 18:57 |
| absolute | huh, that whole presentation is just a vb app? wow... yeah, my least favorite coding task is setting up windowing stuff, but there are typically wysiwyg tools to do that stuff | 18:57 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, pannable only works with pannable hardware and its non obvious to a user | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | Wooly: they haven't yet seen the light of open source? | 18:57 |
| Khertan_ | Wooly: ha ... or make just a simple example | 18:57 |
| Wooly | no open source yet :D | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | lcuk: consistent ui paradigms == goodness | 18:58 |
| pvanhoof | Note that we are reviewing for harmattan what to do with the album-art provider DBus API | 18:58 |
| mgedmin | most fremantle apps have panning | 18:58 |
| pvanhoof | Just FYI | 18:58 |
| Wooly | I'll make one later :D | 18:58 |
| pvanhoof | That this is uncertain atm | 18:58 |
| Wooly | home time now though :P | 18:58 |
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| Wooly | thanks for the input guys! | 18:58 |
| pvanhoof | album-art storage spec should remain in harmattan | 18:58 |
| pvanhoof | at leas afaik | 18:58 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, iphone twitch isnt - trying to pan and accidentally clicking content underneath because it wasnt registered correctly == badness | 18:58 |
| Jaffa | pvanhoof: thanks for the info | 18:58 |
| pvanhoof | np | 18:58 |
| Khertan_ | and without trying it ... i think that it s not useable | 18:58 |
| * mgedmin likes this version of modest a lot | 18:58 | |
| _berto_ | Jaffa: I ask because I copied a few albums to the n900 and I can see cover images for some of them | 18:58 |
| Khertan_ | but when i see xterm | 18:58 |
| Khertan_ | it s really good | 18:58 |
| Jaffa | pvanhoof: I'll send you the Google Images JSON patch. Not been able to do as much as I wanted (e.g. XB-Maemo-Icon-26 and XB-Maemo-Display-Name in debian/control) | 18:58 |
| _berto_ | but none of the mp3 have albums in their tags (that I know) | 18:58 |
| tor2 | Wooly: Try to make a small example that reproduces the problem anyway, it's always a good approach to find problems -- it can sometimes show that the problem is entirely different, or an obvious cause pops up. | 18:59 |
| mgedmin | lcuk: clicking isn't harmful when you're editing source code, so this argument doesn't apply | 18:59 |
| Jaffa | _berto_: There are heuristics well outlined in a wiki page linked to from a blog post by konttori or pvanhoof | 18:59 |
| lcuk | it does elsewhere | 18:59 |
| lcuk | and if you are tryign to select code and it pans instead | 18:59 |
| _berto_ | Jaffa: ah thanks | 18:59 |
| lcuk | is frustrating | 18:59 |
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| RobertH[AU] | lardman|gone: i got octave compiled! used libf2c and fort 77 | 18:59 |
| mgedmin | lcuk: it's even more frustrating when you're trying to pan and it starts selecting | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | I speak from personal experience | 19:00 |
| lcuk | yes! | 19:00 |
| lcuk | agreed | 19:00 |
| RobertH[AU] | lardman|gone: took a while to get the compile options though | 19:00 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: oh, Claes is back :) | 19:00 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 19:00 |
| Khertan_ | [17:58] * mgedmin likes this version of modest a lot <<< i ve still problem with gmail | 19:00 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i saw he was working on intro videos | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | lcuk: idea: fingerprint recognition | 19:00 |
| lcuk | hah | 19:00 |
| absolute | thought about that | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | use your left hand's fingers for panning, right hand for selection | 19:00 |
| absolute | through the webcam or something? | 19:00 |
| lcuk | cant - i once wanted to do pseudo fingerprint scanner | 19:00 |
| X-Fade | Just use proximity sensor as modifier. | 19:01 |
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| Khertan_ | lol | 19:01 |
| mgedmin | would need *very* sensitive multitouch hardware ;) | 19:01 |
| mgedmin | x-fade's idea is cool | 19:01 |
| X-Fade | Thumb on proximitoy sensor-> select ;) | 19:01 |
| javispedro | why not do same thing browser did? | 19:01 |
| mgedmin | seeing as I now unexpectedly have 26 megs free in root maybe I should apt-get install ioquake3 | 19:01 |
| RobertH[AU] | hey guys, if anyone is looking to get octave working on maemo 5 i started a page on the wiki http://wiki.maemo.org/How_to_Install_Octave . ATM it is a rough outline. It has all the information you need. I hope to add links to the files tomorrow or soemthing | 19:02 |
| mgedmin | javispedro: agreed --- or xterm | 19:02 |
| lcuk | i dont see why for a code editor/something expecting complete mixed mode you cant just use a regular joe scrollbar | 19:02 |
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| mgedmin | because regular joe scrollbars *suck* | 19:02 |
| mgedmin | hard to use even with a stylus | 19:02 |
| javispedro | i'd prefer both apps to use browser's way. platform genericity and all that. | 19:02 |
| mgedmin | hm, maybe a gesture | 19:02 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: it's cool to see how many designers came to maemo after n900 promos :) | 19:03 |
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| mgedmin | drag from the right to get a wide scrollbar | 19:03 |
| Khertan_ | lcuk: hard to use with finger and stylus | 19:03 |
| lcuk | that same sensitive area could just be a little button you know | 19:03 |
| Khertan_ | i found that it s hard to use stylus on n900 with pygtkeditor scroll bar | 19:03 |
| Khertan_ | and using larger scrollbar take too many place | 19:04 |
| recalcati | mgedmin: bye bye, my pc is installing scratchbox and I go home. thx of all | 19:04 |
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| mgedmin | good luck | 19:04 |
| Khertan_ | lcuk: when you will try the new pygtkeditor (v3.0.0) you will like it ! | 19:05 |
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| lcuk | i like it anyway :D | 19:05 |
| pvanhoof | Jaffa, awesome, if you want access to the gitorious repo for the google-images-provider project, just ask mvo, frade, or .. dno who's in charge of maemo.gitorous.orgt | 19:07 |
| Jaffa | pvanhoof: ta | 19:07 |
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| * lardman ponders osso_abook_filter_model_set_visible_func() | 19:21 | |
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| SpeedEvil | oooh | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | nokia.co.uk - email | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | 'Once the product is available, we will ship your order per your instructions. If you are paying by credit or debit card, you will not be charged until the item is shipped or confirmed delivered to you. | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | We will send you another email when the item ships. ' | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | And it got charged immediately I made the order. | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Maybe I confused it by adding a battery | 19:24 |
| Solarion | what's the common paper size in Europe? A1? | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | a4 | 19:25 |
| Corsac | A4 | 19:25 |
| Solarion | A4. | 19:25 |
| Solarion | tjamls/ | 19:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Each size doubles over the last, so A1 is quite large indeed | 19:25 |
| Solarion | Or, Thanks, with my right hand over 1 letter. :) | 19:25 |
| SpeedEvil | large enough to hide behind. | 19:25 |
| Solarion | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A_size_illustration2_with_letter_and_legal.svg | 19:25 |
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| * Solarion misses Europe | 19:25 | |
| * suihkulokki hates all the american-oriented software that insist printing in letter size | 19:26 | |
| fiferboy | lardman: Ah, filter models are so much fun | 19:26 |
| lardman | no docs for that fn afaict | 19:27 |
| absolute | SpeedEvil: when i did the nokiausa order, they had held the funds for the entire order, but had not actually charged it... on my online banking, the full funds were still in my account, but the available funds were the full minus the order amount | 19:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | absolute: this is a debit card | 19:27 |
| absolute | yeah | 19:27 |
| SpeedEvil | absolute: so it comes straight out of my bank account | 19:28 |
| fiferboy | lardman: You can see the code for that function though, right? | 19:28 |
| lardman | I don;t think the library source is available, so no | 19:29 |
| absolute | i understand, but if its charged like a credit card, it works the same way... try going to the gas station sometime and paying at the pump... | 19:29 |
| fiferboy | Ah | 19:29 |
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| absolute | you'll see sometimes they hold funds | 19:29 |
| absolute | my nokiausa order was used with a debit too, charged as a visa | 19:29 |
| SpeedEvil | absolute: It's not - there is no facility to do that with debit cards as I understand it. | 19:30 |
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| absolute | but i switched that over to amazon already | 19:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | absolute: maybe it's different in the US - debit != credit card - they somewhat go through different systems. | 19:30 |
| absolute | SpeedEvil: your debit card can be used as debit with a pin number, or as a credit | 19:30 |
| absolute | yeah | 19:30 |
| absolute | here it must be different | 19:30 |
| absolute | my debit card has a visa logo | 19:30 |
| SpeedEvil | you can't get credit on that card. | 19:30 |
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| absolute | you can't get credit | 19:31 |
| absolute | true | 19:31 |
| absolute | but my bank balance acts as my credit limit | 19:31 |
| fiferboy | lardman: It looks like it does the same thing as this http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/gtk/GtkTreeModelFilter.html#gtk-tree-model-filter-set-visible-func | 19:31 |
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| fiferboy | lardman: Given a user function that returns true or false based on whether you want to see a row or not | 19:31 |
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| absolute | i'm just saying, it may look like it was charged, but not actually have been charged... and that's exactly how my order through them showed up | 19:32 |
| absolute | i wouldn't count on it as a sign that they're shipping it right away is all | 19:32 |
| lardman | ah, good call, am far too tired | 19:32 |
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| fiferboy | lardman: I have done some of the tree model stuff in Gtk, if you need a hand with anything | 19:33 |
| crashanddie | VDVsx: I won't be able for the extras-testing marathon | 19:34 |
| lardman | thanks, will give you a shout :) | 19:34 |
| crashanddie | VDVsx: I'm on a business trip for a couple of weeks in the US, and other than being extremely jet-lagged, I'll also be extremely drunk | 19:34 |
| VDVsx | crashanddie, heheh | 19:34 |
| crashanddie | VDVsx: but I love the idea, and regret I won't be part of it | 19:34 |
| fiferboy | lardman: I assume you want to use that function to filter out people who are not online? | 19:35 |
| hrw | bye | 19:35 |
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| lardman | hrw|gone: bye | 19:35 |
| lardman | fiferboy: yeah, I just want to see those who are online, then draw them on a map | 19:36 |
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| Khertan_ | good night | 19:36 |
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| fiferboy | The filter function should work. IIRC it will act dynamically when the tree model is changed (assuming the correct signals are sent out) | 19:36 |
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| VDVsx | crashanddie, I'm also visiting the US, but this week | 19:37 |
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| lardman | hmm, I wonder if it will actually return anything Tree related though | 19:37 |
| lardman | more likely ABook related | 19:37 |
| crashanddie | VDVsx: watch out, coming back to the old continent is horrible for jet-alg | 19:37 |
| crashanddie | s/alg/lag/ | 19:37 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: VDVsx: watch out, coming back to the old continent is horrible for jet-lag | 19:37 |
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| bkonrath | hi everyone - quick newbie question: where can I find the source for the on-screen keyboard that is used in the N900? | 19:38 |
| crashanddie | VDVsx: at the 2 in the afternoon "I don't want to have lunch, I want to sleep". At 4 in the morning "woohoo, wanna go for a game of tennis?" | 19:38 |
| VDVsx | crashanddie, first time there, so I really don't know :) | 19:38 |
| crashanddie | there's one thing though, waking up early when in the US is very easy | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, where you going? | 19:39 |
| crashanddie | (because 8AM is basically lunch time for us) | 19:39 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, CA | 19:39 |
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| GAN900 | VDVsx, what part? | 19:40 |
| aSIMULAtur | don't tell me | 19:40 |
| aSIMULAtur | santa clara :P | 19:40 |
| crashanddie | VDVsx: fremont? | 19:40 |
| VDVsx | GAN900, san francisco/mountain view | 19:40 |
| crashanddie | mountain view? | 19:40 |
| crashanddie | heh | 19:40 |
| GAN900 | Ah, that'll be nice. | 19:41 |
| crashanddie | I love how everyone says "SF", but really, they're an hour drive away : | 19:41 |
| crashanddie | :P | 19:41 |
| luke-jr | bkonrath: probably can't | 19:41 |
| aSIMULAtur | same shit different pile | 19:41 |
| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: GSoC reward? | 19:41 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, yup, paid by google ;) | 19:41 |
| bkonrath | luke-jr: really!? why not? | 19:41 |
| pH5 | I'd like to use some multithreading in my app, but as soon as I add the gdk_threads_init() call, the thing hangs when started in the SDK from the application launcher. Running from the console with run-standalone.sh still works. Has anybody seen such a behaviour? Modest and the contacts app don't start either. | 19:41 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: Hehe, nice | 19:42 |
| GAN900 | Remember, SF is always about 50°F and everything around it will be hotter. | 19:42 |
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| GAN900 | So bring layers. ;) | 19:42 |
| luke-jr | bkonrath: because Maemo is closed | 19:42 |
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| lardman | pH5: don't test in sb? ;) | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | bkonrath: there are some very similar open source example ones | 19:42 |
| GAN900 | bkonrath, the keyboard examples are around somewhere. | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | in the sdk | 19:43 |
| pH5 | lardman: is this supposed not to work? | 19:43 |
| lardman | dunno, works for me on-device, I never test in the SDL | 19:43 |
| lardman | SDK | 19:43 |
| javispedro | well, x86 sdk should work | 19:43 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I want stricter thread closing rules on tmo as well | 19:43 |
| javispedro | armel... here be dragons. | 19:43 |
| GAN900 | luke-jr, at least try to avoid spreading misinformation when you don't know. . . . | 19:43 |
| lardman | crashanddie: like what? | 19:43 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: basically, when there's 10 messages that aren't related to the original topic, split the topic and kill the old one | 19:43 |
| luke-jr | GAN900: was I wrong? | 19:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, when it's 10 pages of back-and-forth between christexaport and one of the Jays it's time to lock. | 19:44 |
| luke-jr | GAN900: I'm pretty sure I saw someone mention that being specifically a closed part | 19:44 |
| lardman | I'm never sure when I should use the hand-of-lardman to close/kill/etc | 19:44 |
| bkonrath | Stskeeps, GAN900: do you have a link or can tell me where I can search? | 19:45 |
| lardman | I don;t want to be seen as a nasty demi-lardGod | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | bkonrath: repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | in h | 19:45 |
| zerojayN900 | if you want attention, wear a pacman hat outside. | 19:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, I'm going to start reporting threads I think need closing. | 19:46 |
| zerojayN900 | i/ | 19:46 |
| zerojayN900 | argh | 19:46 |
| crashanddie | gotta run, talk later | 19:46 |
| dneary | Ah, I remember | 19:46 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: go for it | 19:47 |
| zerojayN900 | ive gone two blocks and was asked 5 times to take pics with people. | 19:47 |
| dneary | It was that chat we had in the bar that sjgadsby was thinking about | 19:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojayN900, attention whore, too? :P | 19:47 |
| zerojayN900 | lol | 19:47 |
| zerojayN900 | not at all normally but i gotta get it home. | 19:47 |
| * lardman will have to remember to check his gmail account for GAN's commands ;) | 19:47 | |
| cosmo | hey californians, how is the weather there around new year? i'm coming there for two weeks. | 19:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dooooo myyyy biddiiiiing! | 19:47 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ...and then press delete ;P | 19:47 |
| cosmo | i read that average temperature is about 10 degrees c, but is it hot during day? | 19:48 |
| lcuk | wazd, theres a lot of interest :) thats a good thing, get your whip out and organise them all (neatly of course with balanced space between) | 19:48 |
| bkonrath | Stskeeps: thanks! does maemo have an svn or git repository? | 19:49 |
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| absolute | 11:48 < Stskeeps> bkonrath: repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free | 19:50 |
| GAN900 | cosmo, depends where you are. | 19:50 |
| Stskeeps | bkonrath: maemo.gitorious.org is getting populated | 19:50 |
| cosmo | GAN900: road trip around SF and LA area | 19:51 |
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| cosmo | not planned more than that | 19:51 |
| GAN900 | cosmo, SF is pretty much always 50-60°F | 19:51 |
| cosmo | and as finns we'd like some warm temperature | 19:51 |
| GAN900 | and windy | 19:51 |
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| GAN900 | The rest should be more variable. | 19:52 |
| cosmo | ok, pretty cold | 19:52 |
| GAN900 | Pretty much it's cold on the water and warmer inland. | 19:52 |
| GAN900 | Inland is pretty dry so the temps vary a lot day to night. | 19:52 |
| cosmo | maybe we'll take a tour inland | 19:52 |
| GAN900 | Highly recommended. | 19:53 |
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| GAN900 | I'd consider hitting up Yosemite if you have an extra day. | 19:53 |
| bkonrath | Stskeeps: awesome! thanks for your help :-) | 19:53 |
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| cosmo | only four hours drive.. not that bad | 19:54 |
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| cosmo | any other recommendations? | 19:55 |
| zerojayN900 | fucking bus is taking forever. | 19:55 |
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| lardman | public transport | 19:55 |
| GAN900 | cosmo, make sure you drive along the coast heading south out of SF | 19:56 |
| zerojayN900 | and being a fat guy in a huge pacman hat. | 19:56 |
| GAN900 | US-101 is about as scenic as it gets. | 19:56 |
| cosmo | ok, we'll do | 19:56 |
| GAN900 | Stop in Santa Cruz | 19:56 |
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| zerojayN900 | haha, scared the shit out of someonel | 19:57 |
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| GAN900 | Make sure you do Alcatraz in SF. Also check out Golden Gate Park. | 19:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | This place is really badass: http://www.exploratorium.edu/ | 19:58 |
| cosmo | is alcatraz that good? i've seen the rock already :-) | 20:00 |
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| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, you've done the tour? | 20:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | The whole thing is pretty touristy, but it's fun all the same. | 20:01 |
| cosmo | the movie | 20:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, do the tour. ;) | 20:01 |
| cosmo | ok | 20:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | It doesn't take that long and you'll want to see SF's waterfront anyway. | 20:01 |
| zerojayN900 | i wish i had time to really checkout sf when i was there. | 20:02 |
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| lardman | oh, why can't I see the docs for TpConnectionPresenceType ? | 20:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, the Maritime Museum is pretty good, too. http://www.maritime.org/index.htm | 20:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Especially the Hyde Street Pier. | 20:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, I'd also consider going into at least one SF mall. | 20:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, well, depending on where you're from. ;) | 20:03 |
| * lardman notes these down for his proposed visit to SF (when he gets round to booking it) | 20:04 | |
| cosmo | GeneralAntilles: tampere, finland | 20:04 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | SF mall it is... | 20:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | The malls in SF are utterly excessive. | 20:04 |
| cosmo | we visited some very sorry mall in florida road trip last year, but it wasn't very interesting | 20:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Most of the malls in Florida suck. ;) | 20:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which, might I ask? | 20:05 |
| qwerty12_N810 | s/ the malls in // | 20:05 |
| qwerty12_N810 | +s | 20:05 |
| lcuk | lol | 20:05 |
| zerojayN900 | lol.. someone just asked me if i was "irl trolling" | 20:05 |
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| lardman | ah, TpConnectionPresenceType is from Telepathy :) | 20:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojayN900, lol. | 20:06 |
| cosmo | can't remember which one.. i think it was somewhere on the west side of florida | 20:06 |
| cosmo | we just went to eat in pizzeria (lousy pizza) and walked around the mall | 20:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, there's maybe one respectable mall on the west coast. | 20:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | International in Tampa. | 20:06 |
| zerojayN900 | Nokia N900 is Pacman's official phone. | 20:06 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: oi! sort it out and get a passport so you can rock up in Amsterdam before giving Florida abuse! ;) | 20:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it doesn't compare to SF with its live mannequins. ;) | 20:07 |
| zerojayN900 | at least that's what im telling them | 20:07 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: You're not even from Florida! | 20:07 |
| cosmo | it was some random mall on road side, not even near any big city | 20:07 |
| lardman | no, but I'm going next year | 20:07 |
| qwerty12_N810 | "Oi!" yourself | 20:07 |
| lardman | and it may well suck, who knows | 20:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | This is probably obvious, but don't even consider trying to take a car into the city in SF. ;) | 20:07 |
| cosmo | so the public transportation works? | 20:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It does in most large US cities. | 20:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | California also has a reasonable train network for getting from city-to-city. | 20:08 |
| fiferboy | lardman: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/telepathy-glib/telepathy-glib-enums.html#TpConnectionPresenceType | 20:08 |
| lcuk | hey lardman, you seen this cool push n900 project? http://wouwlabs.com/blogs/jeez/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/presentation_pov.pdf | 20:08 |
| lardman | fiferboy: yeah, found it in the end, thanks :) | 20:08 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Oops, didn't realize I wasn't scrolled down :| | 20:09 |
| cosmo | we're going to rent a car anyway (4 or 5 people coming) but we'll leave it outside the city | 20:09 |
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| mgedmin900 | hey, I just realized why the n900 is better than an iphone | 20:09 |
| mgedmin900 | integrated stand | 20:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, I'd recommend an Impala. | 20:09 |
| lcuk | thats all? | 20:09 |
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| RST38h | you call THAT a stand? | 20:09 |
| qwerty12_N810 | mgedmin900: It has, *gasp*, buttons other than a d-pad? | 20:10 |
| lardman | wow, someone attached one to a bike wheel, pretty daring | 20:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | and definitely go with Hertz. | 20:10 |
| lardman | fiferboy: np, thanks for the moral support :) | 20:10 |
| lcuk | lardman, i almost spat out my coffee when i saw they were planning it using liqbase | 20:10 |
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| lardman | mgedmin900: have you actually used the stand...? ;) | 20:10 |
| lcuk | it was buried in amongst a canola update | 20:10 |
| mgedmin900 | oh you unbelievers | 20:11 |
| mgedmin900 | give the stand a chance | 20:11 |
| RST38h | How are you using the stand? | 20:11 |
| mgedmin900 | it's better than the 770's | 20:11 |
| lcuk | let it stand on its own merits | 20:11 |
| RST38h | Please confess | 20:11 |
| lcuk | unless there is a gentle breeze | 20:11 |
| cosmo | it's a pity only new cars are available for rent.. we'd prefer some old us car as gas is practically free there | 20:11 |
| RST38h | lcuk: can it? =( | 20:11 |
| lcuk | my device sits in its cradle anyway | 20:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin900, the stand sucks. | 20:11 |
| lcuk | at the right angle | 20:12 |
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| lcuk | and is usable at that angle | 20:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's more like having a really sad joke attached to the back of your device. | 20:12 |
| lcuk | nahh its useful | 20:12 |
| RST38h | The only way you can use this "stand" is by sticking a bodily appendage under it, in order to hold the tablet | 20:12 |
| lcuk | for playing movies | 20:12 |
| RST38h | So, it is not really a stand but a handle :) | 20:12 |
| cosmo | the stand sucks less than no stand.. at least you can put the phone on table and see what's on screen with it | 20:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, if you ever do take the car into the city, never buy gas there. | 20:12 |
| mgedmin900 | the tv out is useful for playing movies | 20:12 |
| lcuk | +1 cosmo | 20:12 |
| mgedmin900 | the stand is for reading books | 20:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's usually at least %10-%20 more expensive. | 20:13 |
| lardman | cosmo: don't tell them petrol is free, they won't believe you ;) | 20:13 |
| RST38h | tv out is nice indeed | 20:13 |
| lcuk | mgedmin900, only with a big tv nearby | 20:13 |
| lcuk | but thats hardly mobile | 20:13 |
| RST38h | Anyone tried Quake3 with a video output already? | 20:13 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: it'd be nice if the FM transmitter could be overclocked to UHF :) | 20:13 |
| mgedmin900 | ooh | 20:13 |
| absolute | RST38h: there was a video of it | 20:13 |
| lardman | I can't get the Q3 Linux installer .sh to work | 20:13 |
| cosmo | we'll pour some gas to the ground every time we refuel, just because it's so cheap :-) | 20:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: There's a YouTube video | 20:13 |
| Corsac | mgedmin900: I guess the stand can be useful for playing movies | 20:13 |
| Corsac | mgedmin900: in the RST38h way | 20:13 |
| suihkulokki | the stand is great for attaching cute and furry things like all the asians do | 20:13 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, the thought of wireless tv out makes me drool | 20:13 |
| lardman | cosmo: lol, yeah | 20:13 |
| lcuk | i think that would rock | 20:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, if you want to rent a larger sedan, a Charger might be an option. | 20:14 |
| lcuk | perfect for presentations | 20:14 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: yeah | 20:14 |
| qwerty12_N810 | suihkulokki: This one doesn't... | 20:14 |
| lardman | suihkulokki: there's a proper hole for that you know? | 20:14 |
| mgedmin900 | I'm waiting for ioquake to get a data files downloader | 20:14 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: though it'd have to be digital wireless TV out in many parts of the world | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | hello kitty on tv \o/ | 20:14 |
| lardman | FM transmitter in car is not so hot - works fine in the house though | 20:14 |
| lcuk | i dont care what type of tv out it is | 20:14 |
| lcuk | but wireless would be great | 20:14 |
| lardman | need to look into the FM receiver it has built in to auto-change-channels | 20:15 |
| suihkulokki | lardman: you can attach many many more to the stand than to the official hole | 20:15 |
| lcuk | having it wired is lightyears ahead of previous | 20:15 |
| lardman | suihkulokki: very true :) | 20:15 |
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| suihkulokki | think HUNDREDS of hello kittys on a n900! | 20:15 |
| lardman | suihkulokki: have to be careful of my monkey getting in the way of the LEDs though ;) | 20:15 |
| absolute | hahaha | 20:15 |
| lardman | or similar :) | 20:15 |
| javispedro | did you get to "fix" the feature where it won't let you use it with the charger? | 20:15 |
| lardman | not tried that | 20:15 |
| cosmo | how are hotels in california? in florida the cheap road side hotels were surprisingly good and cheap when we learnt to use the discount coupons | 20:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Goddamnit, Nokia put the lanyard hole on the wrong end. | 20:16 |
| Vulcanis | make your own | 20:16 |
| lardman | do you have a lanyard? | 20:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, they're pretty much the same. | 20:16 |
| wjt | they put it on the wrong side of my E66 too | 20:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, rates will be a lot higher if you're staying in the city. | 20:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, look for Holiday Inn Expresses if you can. | 20:16 |
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| wjt | which is to say, the opposite side to the headphone jack, so it can't be in the little case thing with both the headphones and the lanyard attached | 20:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, most of them are much newer and they're pretty reasonably priced usually. | 20:17 |
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| lcuk | wjt, think of the n900 as an inline remote control | 20:17 |
| wjt | bah, all you people with your summit-given devices | 20:17 |
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| * GeneralAntilles didn't get his at the Summit! :P | 20:18 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | Summit? ;) | 20:18 |
| wjt | barisione has been gloating almost continuously | 20:18 |
| lardman | nor did I! | 20:18 |
| lcuk | nor I! | 20:18 |
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| javispedro | wjt: don't listen to them, they're laying. | 20:18 |
| aSIMULAtur | omg i got my device today \o/ | 20:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Me neither! | 20:18 |
| javispedro | lardman for example has 3 or 4 devices. | 20:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, there's a cool program in SF where people will rent out their houses or parts of their houses at daily rates. | 20:18 |
| lcuk | :D:D:D:D aSIMULAtor | 20:18 |
| javispedro | qgil said that!!! ;) | 20:18 |
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| aSIMULAtur | lol | 20:18 |
| lardman | javispedro: yep, I just kept going up and picking up another one ;) | 20:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, great way to stay in the city for a reasonable price in places with a bit more character than your average hotel. | 20:18 |
| aSIMULAtur | well, for those of us who have it, we can still 1up ppl | 20:19 |
| aSIMULAtur | look i has 1up | 20:19 |
| javispedro | the only one here you can trust not having a device is ME! | 20:19 |
| cosmo | GeneralAntilles: might suit us. any url? | 20:19 |
| lardman | javispedro: I did get a video out cable though, and managed to watch a video from N900 yesterday | 20:19 |
| barisione | wjt: my precious precious n900 :D | 20:19 |
| * barisione loves it | 20:19 | |
| pusling | is there images for n900 and a way to flash them ? | 20:19 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: How is #idonthaveann900 going? :p | 20:19 |
| lardman | pusling: no images iirc, and using flasher same as ever | 20:20 |
| lcuk | pusling, theres lots of images of n900 on flickr | 20:20 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N810: fine, better than when you were in! | 20:20 |
| lcuk | some might even be taken with flash | 20:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | cosmo, I don't remember, but let me send an email and I can find out. | 20:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Being able to leave that chan was awesome | 20:20 |
| aSIMULAtur | is flickr working for any of you guys btw? | 20:20 |
| pusling | lcuk: funny. | 20:20 |
| lardman | me wonders how to go from a nice OssoABookContactModel to something like OssoABookContactView that has signals, without having a GUI widget | 20:20 |
| pusling | or is there a way to get past the initial 'language choosing/regional settings' if the touch screen is unresponsive ? | 20:20 |
| * javispedro DISLIKES #idonthaveann900 TOURISTS | 20:21 | |
| lcuk | aSIMULAtor, http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/flickr.com | 20:21 |
| Mousey | >_> | 20:21 |
| Mousey | <_< | 20:21 |
| absolute | aSIMULAtur: its down for me | 20:21 |
| javispedro | ;P | 20:21 |
| lcuk | pusling, not sure | 20:21 |
| aSIMULAtur | o wow that's an awesome site | 20:21 |
| aSIMULAtur | omg my precious flickr | 20:21 |
| suihkulokki | pusling: you have prototype? | 20:21 |
| aSIMULAtur | i just tried to upload a photo of my CAT from the N900 | 20:21 |
| absolute | but this morning gmail has been giving me issues too | 20:21 |
| lcuk | PARADOX | 20:21 |
| lcuk | * You have been kicked from #idonthaveann900 by qwerty12_N810 (qwerty12_N810) | 20:21 |
| cosmo | GeneralAntilles: that would be nice.. my address is first 3 characters of my nick at iki.fi | 20:21 |
| pusling | suihkulokki: yep. for several minutes. unfortunately unworking. | 20:21 |
| lardman | ah treemodel has signals, nice | 20:21 |
| javispedro | lcuk: qwerty12_N810 kicked me out too now :( | 20:22 |
| * lardman goes to sort out supper | 20:22 | |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|afk | 20:22 | |
| * GeneralAntilles sorts lardman|afk while he isn't looking. | 20:22 | |
| aSIMULAtur | ./j #ihavemultiplen900s | 20:22 |
| pusling | suihkulokki: is it a common hardware issue that the touch screen doesn't work or did I just get unlucky ? | 20:22 |
| suihkulokki | pusling: for protos you should ask for the firmware image from whoever you got the proto from | 20:22 |
| * GeneralAntilles high-fives aSIMULAtor. | 20:22 | |
| lcuk | aSIMULAtor, show off :p | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | suihkulokki, don't believe Nokia is distributing ones for the Summit people, sadly. | 20:23 |
| pusling | suihkulokki: or I'm not sure if it is a proto or a 'final unreleased' edition | 20:23 |
| * javispedro registes that channel, he may need it when his world conquering routine finally runs. | 20:23 | |
| RST38h | moo, javis, asimula | 20:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ah, that was fun. | 20:24 |
| qwerty12_N810 | /part #idonthaveann900 | 20:24 |
| aSIMULAtur | someone should register icanhasmultiplen900z.com | 20:24 |
| aSIMULAtur | RST38h o hai | 20:24 |
| javispedro | hiyo RST38h | 20:24 |
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| RST38h | #my2ndtabletisanewton ? | 20:24 |
| lcuk | mmm @ spam email | 20:24 |
| lcuk | "re: custom diaper cakes available! - perfect for baby showers!" | 20:24 |
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| lcuk | i hope they arent filled with chocolate sauce | 20:25 |
| aSIMULAtur | can someone make an app like what they had on the newton | 20:25 |
| aSIMULAtur | where u could write with your own handwritin | 20:25 |
| aSIMULAtur | +g | 20:25 |
| aSIMULAtur | then it'll turn it into a font | 20:25 |
| aSIMULAtur | just for kicks | 20:25 |
| wazd | Oh. My. God. | 20:25 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20081126_224040.gary.scr.png | 20:25 |
| wazd | You though that Puck Mouse was bad? :D | 20:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, hey! | 20:26 |
| lcuk | aSIMULAtor, ^ | 20:26 |
| RST38h | General: ? | 20:26 |
| aSIMULAtur | lul :) | 20:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | My 2nd tablet is a Newton. :P | 20:26 |
| * GeneralAntilles misses the Newton. | 20:26 | |
| RST38h | hehehe =) | 20:26 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20081124_225420.gary.scr.png | 20:26 |
| RST38h | Zoomer was better though | 20:26 |
| SpeedEvil | My first tablet was an Microwriter Agenda. | 20:26 |
| wazd | Introducing "The Magic Mouse - First Mouse that doesn't click" | 20:27 |
| wazd | or it clicks | 20:27 |
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| RST38h | wazd: another load of apple's cultware? =) | 20:27 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MicroWriter,_AgendA,_and_CyKey.jpg - top right | 20:27 |
| lcuk | syas drhjirhydhj apparantly | 20:27 |
| RST38h | finally killed off the last mouse button? | 20:27 |
| lcuk | tracy means brb | 20:27 |
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| RST38h | Speed: Well if you start claiming stuff like this, my first tablet was an MK85 | 20:28 |
| wazd | RST38h: no, I guess it clicks, my bad :) | 20:28 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I could actually possibly lay my hands on the agenda in about a day of digging | 20:29 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.knightrifles.com/catalog.aspx?catID=MK-85 - I guess not | 20:29 |
| javispedro | my first tablet, still more cute than current devices: http://62.93.166.18/fg/90/40/9040694_1.jpg | 20:29 |
| javispedro | hehe | 20:29 |
| SpeedEvil | It was multitouch! (the agenda) | 20:30 |
| SpeedEvil | (though not capacitive) | 20:30 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/20/apples-jony-ive-waxes-eloquently-about-new-imacs-on-video/ | 20:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | My first tablet was a Pocket PC. Fuck yeah | 20:31 |
| wazd | RST38h: new iMac looks like Touch Diamond 2, lol | 20:31 |
| wazd | RST38h: black top, metal bottom :D | 20:31 |
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| wazd | oooooooor it doesn't click! | 20:35 |
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| Stskeeps | hello kitty on tv \o/ | 20:36 |
| Stskeeps | err.. | 20:36 |
| Stskeeps | stupid irssi. | 20:36 |
| penguinbait | anyone remember the Pocket PC ads "Pocket PC, your palm can't do that" | 20:36 |
| javispedro | thank god I don't. | 20:36 |
| penguinbait | heh | 20:36 |
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| RST38h | wazd: hmm...change of color scheme? :) | 20:37 |
| RST38h | wazd: Oh it is not the change in color scheme, they just used the design from higher-end Mac desktops | 20:37 |
| RST38h | penguinbait: my palm still can't do that kind of perverse abomination | 20:38 |
| penguinbait | heh | 20:38 |
| RST38h | and it (the abomination) is already up to v6.5 | 20:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Magic Mouse | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | They accomplished nearly everything I did with my MX Revolution. | 20:39 |
| * javispedro taps his still working m130. 7 years with me iirc. | 20:39 | |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: or VX Nano :) | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, VX suxs. | 20:39 |
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| wazd | GeneralAntilles: you suck! Die!111 | 20:39 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: :D | 20:40 |
| javispedro | wazd: he has karma -1, don't mess with him. | 20:40 |
| zerojay | lol, what? | 20:40 |
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| crashanddie_ | back | 20:40 |
| zerojay | Someone clicked the Finish Him button on GeneralAntilles? | 20:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, X-Fade made my karma −1. :( | 20:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't defy him! | 20:40 |
| javispedro | zerojay: X-Faded did | 20:40 |
| javispedro | ouch typo. | 20:40 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, serious? | 20:40 |
| crashanddie_ | lol | 20:40 |
| * RST38h does not understand obsession with mice. Now, trackballs....ahhhh | 20:40 | |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles has been x-faded | 20:41 |
| zerojay | As a joke, right? | 20:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/x-fade-wins.jpg | 20:41 |
| javispedro | zerojay: no, and the reason he's not responding to constant pinging right now is because he's on a plane to the US, in order to really "finish" GAN. | 20:41 |
| javispedro | >:) | 20:42 |
| zerojay | Hahaha. | 20:42 |
| wazd | Johnnie Ive is one damn crazy designer | 20:42 |
| wazd | with absolutely washed brains :) | 20:42 |
| RST38h | General: Got the passport? | 20:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, aside from being overpriced the Mac mini server is pretty badass. | 20:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, yup, 28 hours too late. | 20:42 |
| RST38h | wazd: Whaddayawant? He started with toilet appliances | 20:42 |
| crashanddie_ | ~ping | 20:43 |
| infobot | ~pong | 20:43 |
| RST38h | General: Then you still have a few hours to cross into Mexico, until X-Fade lands! | 20:43 |
| wazd | RST38h: every video with him is bloody scarry | 20:44 |
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| RST38h | wazd: gonna make an almost perfect Jobs replacement | 20:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, somebody needs to figure out this whole key rebinding thing. | 20:45 |
| crashanddie_ | key rebinding? | 20:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, so I can bind fn-right arrow to tab or fn-shift-v to pipe | 20:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | xmodmap isn't playing nice | 20:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | and the HAL stuff is confusing me. | 20:46 |
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| crashanddie_ | oh for fuck's sake, what a fucking tool: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=352846&postcount=160 | 20:48 |
| crashanddie_ | at least he's getting back on topic | 20:48 |
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| * crashanddie_ stfu | 20:48 | |
| mgedmin900 | GeneralAntilles, letg's make a deal: build iptables or xchat with kinetic scrolling, and I'll figure out keybindings | 20:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin900, XChat with kinetic is damn near impossible. | 20:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | and I don't build things anyway. :P | 20:50 |
| absolute | hehe | 20:50 |
| absolute | irssi++ | 20:50 |
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| absolute | although i dunno how that's gonna work out with no alt key | 20:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Doesn't have kinetic either. | 20:50 |
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| cosmo | i bet kinetic scrolling is avalable as irssi plugin somewhere :) | 20:51 |
| * lcuk laughs at the mirror thread | 20:51 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: You have that Dell, right, and you do say your interest is documentation...? | 20:51 |
| crashanddie_ | Dell documentation is good | 20:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, what of it? | 20:51 |
| crashanddie_ | it's the people throwing away the documentation, or assuming that it's crap that are idiots | 20:51 |
| crashanddie_ | that, and the fact that the documentation is aimed at people with brains | 20:51 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: Utilise your love of documentation and get to building! :p | 20:52 |
| crashanddie_ | (and not asperger's syndrome, like most IT personnel) | 20:52 |
| javispedro | after 3 days I now have a FULLY update Vista VM! Now, what did I want to use it for... | 20:52 |
| lcuk | testing secure deletion functionality of linux | 20:52 |
| lcuk | wipe that VM | 20:52 |
| crashanddie_ | secure deletion? | 20:52 |
| crashanddie_ | rm --force ? | 20:52 |
| zerojay | crashanddie_: LOL... asperger's... that's funny. | 20:53 |
| javispedro | dd if=/dev/zero of=/file/to/delete | 20:53 |
| lcuk | no, non recoverable deletion - the military spec multiple overwriting thingy | 20:53 |
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| crashanddie_ | heh | 20:53 |
| cosmo | dd if=/dev/urandom of=/file/to/delete is more secure | 20:53 |
| crashanddie_ | no, it's not | 20:53 |
| zash | srm ! | 20:53 |
| crashanddie_ | cosmo, the whole point is that a single over-write can leave a residual magnetic field which could theoretically be used to recover the previous data | 20:54 |
| mgedmin900 | nuke the hard disk from orbit | 20:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | crashanddie_: back in the day | 20:54 |
| crashanddie_ | cosmo, whether the data currently on the disk is random or full 0's doesn't really change the residual data | 20:54 |
| zash | mgedmin900: yeah! | 20:54 |
| lcuk | expensive | 20:54 |
| glass__ | acid, bitches | 20:54 |
| javispedro | you americans are always on orbit | 20:54 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie_: not really so much now | 20:54 |
| glass__ | corrode the discs | 20:54 |
| crashanddie_ | SpeedEvil, I know | 20:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | crashanddie_: data is _A_HELL_ of a lot denser than it ever was | 20:54 |
| zash | srm -l should be fine | 20:54 |
| crashanddie_ | SpeedEvil, good point | 20:55 |
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| lcuk | but with perpendicular recording the data is stored a lot deeper into the disk | 20:55 |
| zash | apt:secure-delete/usr/bin/srm | 20:55 |
| * GeneralAntilles doesn't see what's wrong with the Thanks! system. | 20:55 | |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: but - the signal-noise ratio is a _lot_ smaller | 20:55 |
| crashanddie_ | anyway, it's funny, because people keep talking about this "secure deletion" on "military grade" | 20:55 |
| Vulcanis | secure deletion is a mound of thermite | 20:56 |
| lcuk | says the security officer | 20:56 |
| zash | srm = 7 passes random, srm -l = 1 pass random, 1 pass zero | 20:56 |
| crashanddie_ | the thing is, I've worked with armed forces, police forces and various governments, and I've never heard of anything of the like | 20:56 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: back in the day, you had a - say - 10dB signal-noise ratio - because you had to be able to read every single bit, or you got a CRC error. | 20:56 |
| lcuk | thats because you are not at the poop end of the big machine | 20:56 |
| lcuk | when drivers and hardware is decommissioned, it should be securely destroyed | 20:56 |
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| lcuk | to prevent sensitive data from escaping (on laptops on trains) | 20:57 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: now, the SNR is perhaps 1 or 2dB, and the encoding is a couple of orders of magnitude more complex, with forward-error-correction, and ... | 20:57 |
| mgedmin900 | should | 20:57 |
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| glass__ | prying discs open and messing them is a true military thing | 20:57 |
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| lcuk | glass where do you think shrapnel comes from! | 20:57 |
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| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Nor do I. | 20:57 |
| glass__ | lcuk: from the glass casing on the grenade | 20:58 |
| crashanddie_ | lcuk, usually, when something is secure, they just encrypt the shite out of it, separate all the odd byte on one disk, and all the even bytes on another (byte[0] -> disk 0, byte [2] -> disk 0, etc), and then just store the disks in separate physical locations, if something goes wrong, destroy disks | 20:58 |
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| lcuk | encryption is not unbreakable, its just inpractical | 20:59 |
| javispedro | if something goes wrong, start a MAD with the world. eventually, the nation with your state secrets will be nuked. | 20:59 |
| lcuk | where does the split site disk striping? | 20:59 |
| mgedmin900 | who wrote the seminal paper on secure deletion from magnetic media? | 20:59 |
| lcuk | cos that sounds cool | 20:59 |
| lcuk | but entirely impractical | 20:59 |
| lcuk | just have lots of guards and physical security | 20:59 |
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| crashanddie_ | a company that you all know off has its root ca stored in a similar fashion, excepted that the encryption/usage quorum is based off 127 different smartcards, of which none of the owners know the PIN (PIN is safeguarded by another 127 people). Realistically speaking, none of these people have ever seen either smartcard or PIN, they just know the access code to the safe that holds said piece of information | 21:00 |
| lcuk | so all 127 people have to bring their piece together (like power rangers) :D | 21:01 |
| crashanddie_ | well, not really | 21:01 |
| lcuk | or 127 people have access to unlocking the whole thing on their own | 21:01 |
| crashanddie_ | you only need x amount of people from those 127 | 21:02 |
| crashanddie_ | probably something like 1/4 | 21:02 |
| crashanddie_ | so 33 or something | 21:02 |
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| lcuk | that sounds more secure than the super powers access to launch bunkers | 21:03 |
| * GeneralAntilles sighs at gnuite. | 21:03 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Android koolaid, yum! | 21:03 |
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| crashanddie_ | lcuk, it probably is | 21:03 |
| crashanddie_ | lcuk, the main difference is that those companies realise that encryption is only temporary | 21:04 |
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| crashanddie_ | which sadly, is something that governments don't | 21:04 |
| javispedro | gnuite, android cooolaid? | 21:04 |
| lcuk | governments use guns to the same effect | 21:04 |
| andre___ | 73 bugs cloned oin the last 7 days. before i normally had around 10. whou... | 21:04 |
| javispedro | ah, I think i'm confusing him with someone else. | 21:04 |
| lcuk | i have to go eating tea | 21:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre___, more coming. :) | 21:04 |
| javispedro | andre___: so, you'd say the quality of bmo bugs is increasing at the same rate as the quality of tmo posts? | 21:05 |
| javispedro | hehe. | 21:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, ping? | 21:05 |
| andre___ | javispedro, you wrote quality but maybe you meant quantity? :-P | 21:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hey! | 21:05 |
| w00t | hey, tmo quality is increasing immensely, i'm posting! | 21:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't impinge the fine people of t.m.o. | 21:05 |
| * w00t outweighs all possible negative benefit | 21:05 | |
| andre___ | didn't even have time today to look at t.m.o :-/ | 21:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're only doing their best. *g* | 21:05 |
| javispedro | andre___, :D | 21:05 |
| javispedro | hey, me too. | 21:06 |
| frals | lol | 21:06 |
| * javispedro listens to the Vista sample tunes | 21:06 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, that's really weird. | 21:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | The FM transmitter works with an official Nokia charger plugged in. | 21:08 |
| RST38h | andre: People suddenly found out what karma was for. And then found out how to increase it. | 21:08 |
| timeless_mbp | pong | 21:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bugs are an easy way to the top. ;) | 21:09 |
| RST38h | yep | 21:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, the automatic update checker dialog strings are ugly. | 21:09 |
| andre___ | RST38h, hehe. as long as the reports are good i'm fine with that | 21:09 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, maybe they dont wnat to dump FM into computers? :-) | 21:09 |
| javispedro | well, then make it so that adding patch keyword adds even more karma :) | 21:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, can we find a better way to show the number of updates available? | 21:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, sadly I guess it thinks my iGo is a data cable. | 21:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | 3rd party charging is going to be problematic on the N900. . . . | 21:10 |
| ShadowJK | entirely expected :) | 21:10 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: Does it disable the FM transmitter when you plug it into a computer? | 21:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yes. | 21:11 |
| mgedmin900 | yes, qwerty | 21:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It does not offer me the PC Suite/Mass storage choice with the iGo, however. | 21:11 |
| mgedmin900 | or when you plug in headphones | 21:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Thanks, at least I've got something to try this with :p | 21:11 |
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| crashanddie_ | I want it to stop playing music (pause) when the earphones are plugged out | 21:12 |
| crashanddie_ | or at least an option for that in media player | 21:12 |
| crashanddie_ | Main reason for that is that I'm tired of getting weird looks everytime I pull on the earphone cord and people realise I'm listening to porn soundtracks | 21:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Proteous, ping? | 21:14 |
| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie_: dbus-monitor --system and write something up | 21:14 |
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| crashanddie_ | qwerty12_N810, I'm training two news guys who just earned a PhD in quantum physics how to program using our internal API | 21:14 |
| crashanddie_ | qwerty12_N810, the last thing I want after a day of work is to start using another horrible API (D-BUS for example) | 21:15 |
| qwerty12_N810 | *shrug* | 21:15 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Actually being useful is the best way to the top? I never would have guessed. ;) | 21:16 |
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| crashanddie_ | the guys can explain in detail what spintronics is and how it's going to be awesome in the future (same thing they've been saying about spintronics for the past 20 years), but they just can't fathom the difference between an EJB and a locally instantiated object, numbnuts | 21:17 |
| ali1234 | it's because quantum physics is a real phenomenon, while 99% of software engineering is bullshit invented to make the practitioners sound clever | 21:18 |
| ali1234 | once they grasp that idea, they'll be fine | 21:18 |
| crashanddie_ | Even though you're probably right, and I'd love to quote you on that tomorrow | 21:19 |
| crashanddie_ | If I start a sentence by "Quantum Physics is a real phenomenon", I'm never going to get any work done before lunchtime | 21:19 |
| crashanddie_ | By the way | 21:19 |
| crashanddie_ | about the topic | 21:19 |
| crashanddie_ | why is it "N900 and Maemo 5 announced", when really, we're far beyond that point | 21:20 |
| crashanddie_ | and secondly, why is "maemo.org" after that announcement? | 21:20 |
| mgedmin900 | crashandie | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody know what the output of the DC-6 is? | 21:22 |
| mgedmin900 | on the n900 | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, link? | 21:22 |
| mgedmin900 | there are separate volume levels for headphones and speakers | 21:22 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, /topic | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Change it. | 21:22 |
| mgedmin900 | unplug, set volume to 0, plug, listen | 21:22 |
| *** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog" | 21:23 | |
| javispedro | much better. | 21:24 |
| crashanddie_ | should we not specify that mxr are the sources? | 21:24 |
| crashanddie_ | and change the ChanServ auto message to add the IRC logs link to the welcome message? | 21:25 |
| crashanddie_ | so that we save some space in the /topic? | 21:25 |
| javispedro | I dislike the automsg, but heh. | 21:25 |
| X-Fade | Already does that. | 21:25 |
| ali1234 | not all clients show it | 21:26 |
| ali1234 | mine just drops anything from chanserv | 21:26 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles | 21:26 | |
| crashanddie_ | "That's your own damn fault then" comes to mind :P | 21:26 |
| javispedro | you like boasting around your OP status or what? :D | 21:26 |
| crashanddie_ | javispedro, nope, he needs to be op to do some operations IIRC | 21:26 |
| X-Fade | Time for another OP party? :) | 21:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Bleh | 21:27 |
| crashanddie_ | X-Fade, I think his -1 wasn't enough | 21:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, /msg chanserv set irc://chat.freenode.net/#maemo entrymsg Welcome to irc://chat.freenode.net/#maemo! http://maemo.org/ Logs available at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | 21:27 |
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| *** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -o GeneralAntilles | 21:27 | |
| javispedro | that got messed up. | 21:27 |
| javispedro | I think. | 21:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Don't have enough perms. | 21:28 |
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| crashanddie_ | works fine | 21:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I really wish Freenode would freaking hurry up and process the damn contact form. | 21:28 |
| crashanddie_ | [19:28] -ChanServ- [#maemo] This channel is logged at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | 21:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah | 21:28 |
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| javispedro | rejoin party! | 21:28 |
| javispedro | na, ChanServ shows the older message still. | 21:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Erm, when did freenode-staff become founder? | 21:28 |
| crashanddie_ | lol | 21:29 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, why are you still the one with all the access to CS, btw? | 21:30 |
| X-Fade | Probably because the founder's account expired? | 21:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | CS? | 21:30 |
| crashanddie_ | ChanServ | 21:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Oh, because I'm amazing, that's why. | 21:30 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie_: Proven track record? | 21:30 |
| w00t | I was just typing that, GeneralAntilles. | 21:30 |
| w00t | hehe. | 21:30 |
| crashanddie_ | X-Fade, not challenging the reasoning here, for the record | 21:30 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie_: Plus different timezone helps :) | 21:31 |
| crashanddie_ | oh bollocks | 21:31 |
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| javispedro | so a troll with -1 karma is the ruler of #maemo? ;) | 21:31 |
| X-Fade | Unless somebody wants to stay awake 24/7 ? | 21:31 |
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| crashanddie_ | ps3 networking crashes at 96% of a 1.8 Gig download | 21:31 |
| crashanddie_ | javispedro, lmao! | 21:32 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Seems so. | 21:32 |
| crashanddie_ | X-Fade, never seen you do anything in #maemo | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, can you come to Freenode? | 21:32 |
| javispedro | no wonder qwerty is the ruler of #idonthaveann900 then. | 21:32 |
| crashanddie_ | or maybe threaten me once to ban me if i didn't watch my language :P | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | er | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | #freenode | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, they want the guy who filed the form. | 21:32 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie_: That is because I am evil behind the scenes. | 21:32 |
| crashanddie_ | X-Fade, hehe, behind the scenes is so much more fun | 21:32 |
| zash | Question: Can I insert stuff that looks like a SMS from somewhere? | 21:32 |
| crashanddie_ | zash, sorry? | 21:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Christ. | 21:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I hate this network sometimes. | 21:33 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, yes? | 21:33 |
| crashanddie_ | oh, blasphemy, right | 21:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, "Yes, my son?" | 21:33 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: Let's start irc.maemo.org! | 21:33 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, you're not my son you bastard | 21:33 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, have they refitted the neural transponder? | 21:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, like the people, generally irritated by the administration. | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | But daddy! :( | 21:34 |
| zash | crashanddie_: can you put a sms message into the inbox with whatever from/to you want | 21:34 |
| zash | on maemo/n900 | 21:34 |
| Stskeeps | oh, no, not a seperate irc server.. we have enough politics already | 21:34 |
| crashanddie_ | zash, I highly doubt it | 21:34 |
| lcuk | +1 Stskeeps | 21:34 |
| * w00t ^5s Stskeeps | 21:34 | |
| frals | zash: could probably add it to the el.db, but i assume you want the actual incoming sms notification and all that? | 21:34 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: What about if your (ex-)IRCD is used? :p | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: still. | 21:35 |
| w00t | there's enough crap without running a network for it really | 21:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: Meh. | 21:35 |
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| javispedro | not to mention that the 770 is already quite overloaded to host yet another 300 bots | 21:36 |
| lcuk | *403 | 21:36 |
| w00t | hah | 21:36 |
| crashanddie_ | w00t, lol, and you are so involved with the internal processes of Maemo to be judging that how, exactly? | 21:36 |
| javispedro | 403 already? O.o | 21:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sadly, I wont get my council cloak. :( | 21:36 |
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| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, cloaks are overrated anyway | 21:37 |
| Proteous | GeneralAntilles: pong | 21:37 |
| * GeneralAntilles would settle for /maemo.org/BAMF/GeneralAntilles/ | 21:37 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Proteous, you wouldn't happen to have a DC-6 would you? | 21:37 |
| X-Fade | Well it seems I will get the channel now. | 21:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Everybody run! | 21:37 |
| crashanddie_ | we're doomed! | 21:37 |
| * qwerty12_N810 bows down to X-Fade | 21:37 | |
| X-Fade | So cloaks are coming up ;) | 21:37 |
| Proteous | I don't know what is a dc6 | 21:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Proteous, the MicroUSB car charger. | 21:38 |
| w00t | crashanddie_: I'm not, I just like to hope that I know a few things about being involved in projects, and the politics of doing so | 21:38 |
| crashanddie_ | X-Fade, can I have /maemo.org/troll/crashanddie ? | 21:38 |
| *** javispedro is now known as mostlyinofensive | 21:38 | |
| w00t | crashanddie_: (and a little helping of commonsense on the side too) | 21:38 |
| Proteous | sadly no | 21:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Proteous, ah well, thanks. Trying to figure out the rating to see how well it'll charge the N900. | 21:38 |
| Proteous | ah | 21:39 |
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| Proteous | I'd think it would be finr | 21:39 |
| Proteous | er fine | 21:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Proteous, yeah, I think so too, but there's academic interest involved now since I can't seem to dig up any specs anywhere. | 21:40 |
| Proteous | heh | 21:40 |
| Proteous | dc to dc voltage converters are pretty robust | 21:40 |
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| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, I've seen 550mA | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | The DC-4 is about ~380 | 21:42 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, so OC disorder enabling is now called "academic interest"? | 21:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | 550mA would be nice. | 21:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, yes. | 21:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, if I can't be in denial what do I have left? | 21:42 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, acceptance? | 21:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | I accept nothing! | 21:43 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, well, after denial you've got anger, bargaining and depression before reaching acceptance | 21:43 |
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| ShadowJK | the same site quotes 800mA for DC-4 :-) | 21:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, weird, wonder if I'm misremembering the model number. . . . | 21:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume at the moment changing batteries involves a full shutdown? | 21:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, can I get a /maemo.org/contributor/GeneralAntilles? :D | 21:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, sadly, yes. | 21:45 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 21:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I really want a fat cap so we can swap batteries easily. | 21:46 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Can you make a proposal of the cloaks on a wiki page? | 21:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, will do. | 21:46 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, very, very fat cap | 21:46 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: Would be nice. Doesn't even need to be that fat. how long will the device live in suspend with the radio off? | 21:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | The thing should draw almost nothing in low power mode. | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | battery capacity/that time = not many watts, * 60s is not a huge number | 21:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's one of the features I loved most about the old Apple laptops. | 21:47 |
| * GeneralAntilles ponders a minimum karma level for cloaks. :D | 21:49 | |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Will see if I can arrange some cloaks tomorrow. Need to go now. | 21:49 |
| mgedmin | ooh, cloaks | 21:49 |
| zerojay | Cloaks? Cool. | 21:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, later. | 21:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Say 1200mAh - and 120 hours, that's 10mA draw, 10mA-min is .6As, so 1F would drop .6V | 21:49 |
| frals | GeneralAntilles: 110 karma for a cloak seems enough *goes to check, yepp, barely makes it*... 110, right? ;) | 21:50 |
| X-Fade | 1K seems fair. | 21:50 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Works for me ;) | 21:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | 1k was what I was thinking. | 21:51 |
| lcuk | what is a cloak and why would we need one | 21:51 |
| mgedmin | 1k worksforme ;) | 21:51 |
| lcuk | does it include a wizard hat too | 21:51 |
| crashanddie_ | so wait, the n900 draws only 10mA per second? | 21:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | With exceptions made at the whim of the http://maemo.org junta. | 21:51 |
| zerojay | Which don't exist. | 21:51 |
| mgedmin | hey, cool, I've got more karma than xfade | 21:51 |
| crashanddie_ | at what voltage? | 21:51 |
| ShadowJK | crashanddie_, in idle it wouldn't be impossible | 21:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, idle power draw is basically just RAM and some radio. | 21:52 |
| crashanddie_ | what voltage? | 21:52 |
| crashanddie_ | let's assume 10 mAh | 21:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Battery is 3.7v | 21:52 |
| crashanddie_ | time to change the battery, let's say 1 minute? | 21:52 |
| ShadowJK | Battery voltage will range from 3.5 to 4.2 | 21:52 |
| ShadowJK | 3.5 | 21:52 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Well 4.2 -> 3.6, yes. | 21:52 |
| crashanddie_ | or 3 minutes to be safe? | 21:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Battery changing might take me all of about 5 seconds. | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | 1F should be plenty | 21:53 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: a cloak stops people seeing your ip address on /whois | 21:53 |
| ShadowJK | my N800 idles at 7mA, wlan on :-) | 21:53 |
| ShadowJK | 4V | 21:54 |
| lcuk | ahh ali1234 | 21:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, it's also a major vanity thing when you have one from an org. ;) | 21:54 |
| crashanddie_ | 1 minute at 3.5V at 10mAh = 12.6 farads in my calculations | 21:54 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie_: 10mA * 60 = .6amp-seconds. 1F will drop 1V in 1s, with a 1A draw | 21:55 |
| zerojay | 2 minutes at 4.5V at 20mAh = 14 Fanoushes. | 21:55 |
| crashanddie_ | F = A * t * V | 21:55 |
| * mgedmin 's head is swimming from all these electromagnetical terms | 21:55 | |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, but people are already in here with you - why do they care | 21:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Assuming it starts off at ~4.2V, and ends up at ~3 - that gives you 1.2V drop. | 21:55 |
| lcuk | lol | 21:55 |
| crashanddie_ | mgedmin, not magnetism involved | 21:55 |
| mgedmin | hey, where you've got moving charges, you've got magnetism | 21:56 |
| mgedmin | basic physics | 21:56 |
| SpeedEvil | So it's last ~80s. | 21:56 |
| ShadowJK | Well | 21:56 |
| mgedmin | or was it accelerating charges | 21:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Or a bit more. | 21:56 |
| mgedmin | waaah, /me fails | 21:56 |
| lcuk | the maemo.org account karma bars are strange | 21:56 |
| ShadowJK | If you change at low battery warning, somewhere around 3.5V, and it drops to 3.3V, the device has probably switched off | 21:56 |
| lcuk | those with <=1 are bigger than the hundreds ones | 21:56 |
| crashanddie_ | mgedmin, you've got minimal electromagnetic charge when accelerates, but at these levels you can forget about it | 21:56 |
| zerojay | lcuk: My longest bar is for Discussion. 1 point. :) | 21:57 |
| ShadowJK | I guess you could use a boost circuit to charge the capacitor to 10V or however much it will take, and a regulator to bring it down to 3.7... | 21:57 |
| lcuk | no your bugzilla is longer | 21:57 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: naah | 21:57 |
| zerojay | lcuk: Oh, is it? | 21:57 |
| lcuk | but i get the idea lol | 21:57 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: these caps are _very_ constrained in terms of voltage | 21:57 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/profile/view/zerojay/ | 21:57 |
| lcuk | yeah i was on your page when you said it lol | 21:58 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, they also self-discharge something mad, right | 21:58 |
| zerojay | Hah. | 21:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: you don't care much about that though | 21:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: you could even only charge when the user says they want to charge bats. | 21:58 |
| crashanddie_ | ShadowJK, anyway, seems quite stupid to try and have this feature | 21:58 |
| lcuk | ahhhh | 21:58 |
| lcuk | <td class="counter" width="0%">1</td> | 21:58 |
| lcuk | <td class="activity-right-side"></td> | 21:58 |
| ShadowJK | but you do care about 0.2V voltage drop if you were already at a battery-low warning situation | 21:58 |
| lcuk | width set to 0% | 21:58 |
| lcuk | so is down to browser | 21:59 |
| mgedmin | what's the favourites bar? | 21:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Practically speaking though. The cap costs ~$1 in bulk, and is a sizable fraction of a cc. | 21:59 |
| lcuk | perhaps maemo.org should use a minimum 1% width | 21:59 |
| crashanddie_ | ShadowJK, especially considering that a ram-to-disk shutdown method would prevent the whole thing | 21:59 |
| SpeedEvil | that's probably enough to kill it. | 21:59 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie_: that means powering up all the way - also slow flash is slow. | 21:59 |
| ShadowJK | slow flash is slow indeed | 21:59 |
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| ShadowJK | probably wouldn't be too bad on suspend, brutal on resume though | 22:00 |
| mgedmin | 0.25 points there are almost reaching my discussion bar with 716 | 22:00 |
| mgedmin | probably because of the lcuk effect | 22:00 |
| lcuk | one of the tech teachers in my school tried to tell us you could hack stuff on old bbc micros if you turned the power off and back on quickly, you could get at some of the code and see how they did it | 22:01 |
| lcuk | he them proceeded to spend about 10 minutes trying | 22:01 |
| lcuk | and almost blew the circuits | 22:01 |
| mgedmin | this story needs some magic smoke coming out | 22:01 |
| lcuk | heh yeah | 22:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, can we have spaces in cloaks? | 22:01 |
| ShadowJK | no | 22:01 |
| crashanddie_ | nope | 22:01 |
| lcuk | make it all of spaces | 22:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thought not, thanks. | 22:02 |
| lcuk | invisible cloak | 22:02 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: Maemo. org? | 22:02 |
| w00t | General Antilles! | 22:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | w00t! | 22:02 |
| w00t | sorry, I was expressing the space rather than my excitement over your name. :P | 22:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | :P | 22:02 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: that works, they used that trick to get the gameboy rom recently | 22:02 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: also on PCs | 22:03 |
| crashanddie_ | invisibility cloak works with gameboy rom? | 22:03 |
| mgedmin | my 3g data plan here is a bit too slow for youtube :/ | 22:03 |
| ali1234 | no, very fast power cycling | 22:03 |
| w00t | mgedmin: who you with? | 22:03 |
| qwerty12_N810 | mgedmin: m.youtube.com? (I know, I know, but...) | 22:03 |
| lcuk | ok, so if code remains - we just need to get REALLY fast at switching out batteries | 22:03 |
| mgedmin | especially when you're cycling downhill with the wind behind your back | 22:03 |
| mgedmin | w00t: what? | 22:04 |
| w00t | mgedmin: who is your data provider, out of curiosity | 22:04 |
| * ShadowJK assumes telenor | 22:04 | |
| mgedmin | telenor.se | 22:04 |
| frals | which plan are you on? | 22:04 |
| mgedmin | see, I got this sim card as a courtesy from a company I'm working with | 22:04 |
| w00t | ah, ok | 22:04 |
| mgedmin | no clue about data plans | 22:04 |
| mgedmin | probably whichever is cheapest | 22:05 |
| mgedmin | and recently they asked me whether it was fast enough for me | 22:05 |
| mgedmin | and I said yes, it's adequate | 22:05 |
| * GeneralAntilles thinks we should just call Reggie the talkmaster. | 22:05 | |
| Stskeeps | hammermaster | 22:05 |
| frals | they got one capped at 350kbps and one at 7.2mbps | 22:05 |
| qwerty12_N810 | mgedmin: What?! I'd always say 'no' | 22:05 |
| * mgedmin should learn to stop and think before answering | 22:05 | |
| mgedmin | speedtest.net said 0.3 Mbit/s | 22:05 |
| crashanddie_ | there's no thinking involved | 22:06 |
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| crashanddie_ | mgedmin, internet is like cars, it's nevar fast enough | 22:06 |
| lolf | mgedmin, w00t: do you know any swedish operators with good prepaid data deals? | 22:06 |
| mgedmin | sadly, no | 22:06 |
| lolf | i'm there pretty often and data roaming sucks | 22:06 |
| Arkenklo | the internet is like cars in the sense that there's always idiots in the way | 22:06 |
| Arkenklo | lolf: prepaid? | 22:06 |
| lcuk | Arkenklo, those speed bumps are called pedestrians | 22:06 |
| wao | woz | 22:06 |
| crashanddie_ | lcuk, lmao | 22:07 |
| * mgedmin itches to do something useful | 22:07 | |
| lolf | Arkenklo: yeah | 22:07 |
| Arkenklo | I don't think there's any | 22:07 |
| crashanddie_ | mgedmin, kill a pedestrian | 22:07 |
| w00t | lolf: no, I just always keep my ear to the ground to make sure if I'm ever in a country I don't get a bad provider :) | 22:07 |
| Arkenklo | lolf: svenska? | 22:07 |
| lolf | ja | 22:07 |
| mgedmin | crashanddie_: no car | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, first draft: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:maemo.org_IRC_cloaks | 22:07 |
| mgedmin | any 3d racing games ported to the n900? | 22:07 |
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| Arkenklo | lolf: menar du kontantkort med löpande dataabbonemang? | 22:07 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, how did you get your internet on the go with your n810 and how fast was it | 22:07 |
| mgedmin | anyway I hate racing games | 22:07 |
| crashanddie_ | mgedmin, who said anything about running them over? I used the generalist word "kill" | 22:07 |
| Arkenklo | eller bara billigt internet? | 22:07 |
| lcuk | or any other device | 22:07 |
| mgedmin | crashanddie_: nah, too much work without a car | 22:08 |
| lolf | Arkenklo: billigt internet på kontantkort | 22:08 |
| lolf | helst betala för någon vecka åt gången | 22:08 |
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| crashanddie_ | kavlor slug pa nutsjar | 22:08 |
| mgedmin | o gal kas nors šiame kanale supranta ir mano kalbą? | 22:08 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, "<mgedmin> speedtest.net said 0.3 Mbit/s" | 22:08 |
| frals | only internet or voice as well lolf? im pretty sure comviq got some data only prepaids | 22:08 |
| lcuk | thats 6 times faster than my home modem used to be | 22:08 |
| Arkenklo | lolf: I think tele2 has an campaign for mobile internet | 22:08 |
| lcuk | even more i bet | 22:09 |
| Arkenklo | "pay only when you need to" | 22:09 |
| qwerty12_N810 | beastialita für vegnia åt gångbàng | 22:09 |
| Arkenklo | but I dont know if thats applicable | 22:09 |
| mgedmin | frals: no voice; this sim card is data-only | 22:09 |
| lolf | oh telenor has maximum 19SEK/day for data on prepaid | 22:09 |
| mgedmin | it's bundled with somebody's contract | 22:09 |
| Arkenklo | lolf: telia has 9kr/day max | 22:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, actually, looking at the list maybe 500 is a better number. | 22:10 |
| lolf | nice | 22:10 |
| mgedmin | we had fun one day trying to figure out if my n900 would ring if people were calling him | 22:10 |
| Arkenklo | I know I saw someone even cheaper, let me look | 22:10 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: "automatic update checker dialog" ?? | 22:10 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: have you installed my package yet? | 22:10 |
| frals | Arkenklo: does that apply to prepaid thou? | 22:10 |
| Arkenklo | frals: I think so | 22:10 |
| aSIMULAtur | timeless: u made me rofflez today | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAtur: chewing out the finnish guy? | 22:11 |
| aSIMULAtur | i would rofl irl but then not so sure how clean the floors are at nrc are | 22:11 |
| aSIMULAtur | yeah lol | 22:11 |
| aSIMULAtur | it was so...perfect | 22:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, only the first .tar. | 22:11 |
| lcuk | mind the blod | 22:11 |
| lcuk | blood | 22:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, the thing that comes up when you tap the flashing orange exclamation point in the status bar. | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: i now have a self contained package | 22:11 |
| frals | ah yeah, lolf: http://www.telia.se/privat/produkter_tjanster/mobilt/kontantkort/?sl=privat_produkter_tjanster_mobilt_kontantkort looks pretty good | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: *nod* | 22:12 |
| zerojay | timeless_mbp: You were chewing out someone? lol | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, is it in Extras yet? | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | (-devel) | 22:12 |
| timeless_mbp | not yet | 22:12 |
| Arkenklo | lolf: tele2 has a mobil surf small for 29kr/mån | 22:12 |
| timeless_mbp | i want to thread the startup for the debug bit | 22:12 |
| * GeneralAntilles whines about having to add repositories. | 22:12 | |
| timeless_mbp | and i need to figure out what the heck to do about gettext | 22:12 |
| Arkenklo | but that has a monthly cap of 200mb data | 22:12 |
| * Sargun dances the NDA dance. | 22:12 | |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: can you find someone to try to build gettext for me? | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Review: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:maemo.org_IRC_cloaks | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810! | 22:12 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: It's in the SDK repo, add away! | 22:12 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't want to push it to people, but i want to know if it actually builds | 22:12 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Looks good to me. | 22:12 |
| mgedmin | 200 mb? I think I had downloaded that much data in a couple of days | 22:12 |
| mgedmin | although it's hard to tell due the bug where the gprs data counters reset | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: when i installed it from there onto aSIMULAtur 's n900, msgunfmt failed | 22:13 |
| Sargun | It appears I've been working on a super secret, awesome T-mobile project for the past 6 months. | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | because of bad linking | 22:13 |
| mgedmin | it may have been 200 kb after a fresh reset | 22:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: Hmm, it worked here | 22:13 |
| mgedmin | I definitely remember seeing 50 mb at some point | 22:13 |
| mgedmin | and I'm here just one week | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: gettext or msgunfmt? | 22:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I even got coloured output ^_^ | 22:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: msgunfmt | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sargun, now they're going to sue you into oblivion? :D | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | interesting | 22:13 |
| Arkenklo | I downloaded a 600 mb rar containing an entire season of family via torrent on my nokia e61, in one day | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: precisely which repo did you use? | 22:13 |
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| zerojay | Sargun: Almost my entire life is under NDA for one company or another. | 22:14 |
| Sargun | GeneralAntilles, vaporize me actually. | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | can you compare w/ aSIMULAtur while i finish my code? | 22:14 |
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| lolf | frals: that looks perfect, thanks | 22:14 |
| RST38h | wazd: Here? | 22:14 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: The SDK one: "deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle sdk/free sdk/non-free tools/free tools/non-free" | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: i only had sdk/free | 22:14 |
| RST38h | Anyway, have I heard someone bitching about "ugly" Motorola Droid phone today? | 22:15 |
| ShadowJK | tmobile top secret project - "Screw our customers more than AT&T"? | 22:15 |
| RST38h | Here, take a load of this: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgetmobile.com/media/2009/10/moto-calgary-bgr.jpg | 22:15 |
| Arkenklo | RST38h: yeah it is ugly | 22:15 |
| absolute | haha, good | 22:15 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: I just did a copy and paste from http://repository.maemo.org/, and all it installed was gettext and gettext-base | 22:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: t-mobile UK is oddly OK | 22:15 |
| absolute | at least i won't be the only one getting screwed by at&t | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: the 80s wants their calculators back | 22:15 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, germany is okayish too | 22:15 |
| javispedro | RST38h: argh, that looks worse than lcuk's proto | 22:15 |
| RST38h | Sts: Calculators looked better | 22:15 |
| qwerty12_N810 | SpeedEvil: Agreed, I'm using them with my N900 now. | 22:16 |
| Arkenklo | it looks like one of those qoq, or what they're called | 22:16 |
| RST38h | Yea, n900 protos do look cuter | 22:16 |
| Arkenklo | too small of a screen in a too large of a chassi | 22:16 |
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| RST38h | In short, it looks like a typical Verizon device =) | 22:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | People still think Extras is a Nokia channel. . . . | 22:16 |
| Arkenklo | I do hope they're planning on cutting 15 mm of off each side | 22:16 |
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| javispedro | 15 only? I don't know why all those droid phones have the slider "borders" | 22:17 |
| Arkenklo | javispedro: well, 15 would make it actually usable | 22:17 |
| Arkenklo | more would be better | 22:17 |
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| Arkenklo | lolf: "Med Telenor Fri Mobilsurf behöver du inte tänka på var, när och hur du surfar. Du betalar bara 59 kronor i månaden och kan mobilsurfa helt obegränsat inom Sverige." | 22:18 |
| lcuk | am i best adding something directly to http://wiki.maemo.org/Troubleshooting or to its talk page | 22:18 |
| lcuk | i think one of the points isnt right | 22:18 |
| lcuk | ahh tis ok ill find ossi | 22:18 |
| RST38h | General: That is least of the problems | 22:19 |
| RST38h | General: The bigger problem is that nobody knows of Extras Testing and voting | 22:19 |
| javispedro | and nobody will. | 22:20 |
| zerojay | I wish I had known that they didn't tell anyone about it when handing out the N900s at Summit. | 22:20 |
| lolf | oh thats cheap | 22:20 |
| Solarion | I don't know of it. :( | 22:20 |
| zerojay | Makes me feel like a bit of an ass for my post, but I still mean it. | 22:21 |
| javispedro | and even if suddenly a lot of people start putting feedback on extras-testing.. | 22:21 |
| lcuk | did all n900 recipients supply an email address | 22:21 |
| Arkenklo | who cares about the mainstream? | 22:21 |
| javispedro | what's going to happen when the device goes the way of the dodo for mainstream? | 22:21 |
| lcuk | can we send out a batsignal to them | 22:21 |
| javispedro | no more apps, ever. | 22:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | zerojay: Meh, it's not like extras-testing was unheard of before the Summit :) | 22:21 |
| Solarion | when you add a program to Extras, it immediately goes to Extras-Testing then? | 22:21 |
| Arkenklo | javispedro: dude, this is linux we're talking about | 22:22 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, to a few of us here it was known | 22:22 |
| Arkenklo | it's practically debian | 22:22 |
| lcuk | but most folks dont care | 22:22 |
| RST38h | javis: This basically means that they have killed Extras replacing it with Extras testing | 22:22 |
| javispedro | Arkenklo: have a 770 around? | 22:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: which doesn't mean that much | 22:22 |
| lcuk | "extras and testing" are totally different things | 22:22 |
| lcuk | they dont watch tmo or irc much | 22:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: there are many things that run linux, and are funcgtionally useless | 22:22 |
| javispedro | RST38h: agreed. | 22:22 |
| Solarion | SpeedEvil: true of so many things, not just linux. :( | 22:23 |
| Arkenklo | SpeedEvil: it seems that you are not in favor of linux. I'm not talking to you. | 22:23 |
| Arkenklo | javispedro: no, but I know it sucks | 22:23 |
| Solarion | See also, Billy-Joe's Half-Finished Visual Basic Program | 22:23 |
| javispedro | Arkenklo: there you have. | 22:23 |
| Arkenklo | "oh no, something that runs linux sucks" | 22:23 |
| Arkenklo | must be linux then | 22:23 |
| Solarion | Arkenklo: Linux does suck. The things to remember: | 22:24 |
| javispedro | no. something that's outdated and basically few people build apps for it. | 22:24 |
| Solarion | a) Everything else sucks too; which sucks less depends entirely on what you're doing with it | 22:24 |
| Arkenklo | Solarion: a) indeed | 22:24 |
| Solarion | b) The suck is decreasing over time | 22:24 |
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| Solarion | c) You can actually help decrease the suck | 22:24 |
| Arkenklo | two score | 22:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: I'm in favour of linux. | 22:24 |
| javispedro | well, this is a good counterargument: way before testers disappear from extras-testing devs will disappear. | 22:24 |
| Solarion | d) There is no d) | 22:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: Linux being on a platform does not magically mean there will be interested devs for that platform. | 22:25 |
| Arkenklo | Solarion: e) profit? | 22:25 |
| Solarion | Arkenklo: sounds good . :) | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: that don't for example get distracted by the next more shiny platform they are working on. | 22:25 |
| Solarion | SpeedEvil: of course, but it does mean that if you're the only person interested, you can make it work. | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Solarion: really? | 22:25 |
| Solarion | SpeedEvil: yes. | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Solarion: Given that in many cases 'making it work' will take many man-months or years of effort? | 22:26 |
| Solarion | SpeedEvil: Yes | 22:26 |
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| Solarion | SpeedEvil: Now you're not talking about capacity to fix, but the value-cost tradeoff of doign so | 22:26 |
| Solarion | There's always a value-cost tradeoff, even of doing value-cost tradeoffs. | 22:26 |
| Arkenklo | and judging that this channel has 410 users, before the platform has even launched, I think that enough people (and more importantly, the right people) knows about it | 22:26 |
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| Solarion | "Just because you *can* edit doesn't mean you *should.*" | 22:27 |
| Solarion | I think that was Crowe T. Robot | 22:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: Openmoko had ~700 at one point IIRC | 22:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: however - that may be a misleading comparison. | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | Arkenklo: err.. this channel has been active since, what, 2005/6? :P | 22:28 |
| Solarion | "But it does mean that if you *have* to edit, you *can.*" --Me, just now | 22:28 |
| javispedro | when I got here this was ~200. that was 6 months around. | 22:28 |
| javispedro | well, a bit more. | 22:28 |
| Arkenklo | I dont care if two million Regular Joe's own a maemo-device, I care if a bunch of intelligent developers and contributors do | 22:28 |
| mgedmin | irc logs start in 2006 | 22:28 |
| Arkenklo | like I said, who cares about mainstream? | 22:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: you have to have critical dev mass, and they have to stick around, or the project dies and bitrots. | 22:29 |
| Solarion | Arkenklo: mainstream has its benefits (network effects) | 22:29 |
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| Solarion | SpeedEvil: In most cases, yes, that is likely true. | 22:29 |
| javispedro | and its cons. | 22:29 |
| Solarion | javispedro: absolutely. Now we're back to value-cost tradeoffs. :) | 22:29 |
| javispedro | oh, new tmo forum | 22:29 |
| Solarion | I need a pointer device that tracks my eyes | 22:30 |
| Solarion | then, the wm can see where I'm looking and freaking put a window there when it pops | 22:30 |
| Solarion | instead of having to drag it across 3k of pixesl | 22:30 |
| Arkenklo | 3k of pixels equal to 1.5 pixelrows on my screen | 22:31 |
| Solarion | what is a pixelrow? | 22:31 |
| Arkenklo | one row of pixels | 22:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Solarion: It's like a cornrow, but blockier. | 22:32 |
| Solarion | heh | 22:32 |
| Solarion | Arkenklo: ah, gotcha now | 22:32 |
| Solarion | I have 2 1680x1050 monitors side-by-side | 22:33 |
| Solarion | so if compiz decides to put a window on the opposite side of the virtual desktop.... | 22:33 |
| Solarion | I think mpx is now in xorg, isn't it? | 22:33 |
| Arkenklo | Solarion: that's 3528k of pixels | 22:34 |
| Solarion | no, it's 3.528k of pixels | 22:34 |
| Solarion | I'd figure out what to do with 3528k of pixes, tho | 22:34 |
| javispedro | hm. I prefer my windows to remain somewhere near their parent windows (new app first window near mouse cursor) | 22:34 |
| Solarion | well, 3360 pixesl (3.360k) | 22:34 |
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| Arkenklo | Solarion: in width, perhaps | 22:34 |
| Solarion | javispedro: yeah, tell compiz that for me, and it'd be a happy workaround | 22:35 |
| Arkenklo | well then | 22:35 |
| Solarion | Arkenklo: I gotcha. I just have to move it horizontally across the screen | 22:35 |
| * GeneralAntilles is currently 5776 pixels wide. | 22:35 | |
| javispedro | i've borked many times around the compiz source | 22:35 |
| Solarion | so approx 3k px | 22:35 |
| Solarion | GeneralAntilles: you're pretty hi-res. How long did it take you to render? | 22:35 |
| * javispedro hopes there's not a new compiz version ever for that reason ;) | 22:35 | |
| Solarion | heh | 22:35 |
| Solarion | compiz sucks, but it has some features I find indispensible | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Solarion, 12 hours overnight on a dual quad Xeon. | 22:36 |
| Solarion | what're the new fora? There's brainstorm | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | But that's with GI turned on. | 22:36 |
| Solarion | GeneralAntilles: taht's not too bad | 22:36 |
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| lcuk | Solarion, i like jamiebennetts monitor setup | 22:37 |
| lcuk | http://tweetphoto.com/qmbiak4x | 22:37 |
| lcuk | its like a big book! | 22:37 |
| Arkenklo | monitors are fucking awesome | 22:37 |
| Solarion | blech | 22:38 |
| * Solarion likes horizontal space | 22:38 | |
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| * SpeedEvil stabs horizontal space. | 22:38 | |
| SpeedEvil | I want vertical space. | 22:38 |
| * javispedro finds out "plz give me the codes thx" email in his inbox | 22:38 | |
| Solarion | though a couple vertically-oriented monitors would be useful for articles | 22:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Stupid widescreen. | 22:39 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: "codes" == SNES ROMs? | 22:39 |
| Arkenklo | I would probably be all-vertical if it weren't for the retarded stand my monitor has | 22:39 |
| * Solarion has 4 terms and 2 emacs buffers per screen | 22:39 | |
| Solarion | erm, frames, not buffers | 22:39 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N810: no no, doing his course assignment. | 22:39 |
| Solarion | though I assign buffer->frame so it translates. :) | 22:39 |
| wazd_ | portrait mode is nice but with very highres screens only | 22:39 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 22:40 | |
| wazd_ | 1920x1200+ | 22:40 |
| Solarion | wazd_: it's good for paper-oriented stuff, I think | 22:40 |
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| Arkenklo | wazd_: like 1200 high? | 22:40 |
| SpeedEvil | 140dpi on desktop monitors would be so nice | 22:40 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Ah, I thought this was DrNokSnes stuff. But, out of curiosity, how many requests in total have you recieved requesting ROMs? :p | 22:40 |
| Arkenklo | there are not many times you require 1920 pxels in width | 22:40 |
| wazd_ | Solarion: it's good, but 1080 width for example will suck balls in the web | 22:40 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N810: uncountable. some spanish forum discovered my email. | 22:40 |
| Solarion | Arkenklo: per window? true. Total across several? more often | 22:40 |
| Solarion | I struggle to figure out why you'd need 1920 pixels in height | 22:40 |
| * GeneralAntilles likes some wide and some tall: http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/3981783507/ | 22:40 | |
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| Arkenklo | Solarion: reading long pages? | 22:41 |
| wazd_ | Solarion: reading web/.pdfs | 22:41 |
| Solarion | good point | 22:41 |
| wazd_ | Solarion: I used my screen in portrait a bit - it's nice but 900 width is very uncomfortable | 22:41 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Ouch... Get their e-mail addresses, make DrNokSnes check to see if they have that address is in Modest, and put up a nice big "GTFO" | 22:41 |
| Solarion | maybe my fotns are small enough I don't need the vertical space much | 22:41 |
| qwerty12_N810 | *in | 22:41 |
| Solarion | wazd_: yeah | 22:41 |
| javispedro | fortunately, from a friend's suggestion, now I filter "rom" written in lowercase from unknown addresses into spam folder | 22:42 |
| lcuk | wazd_, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/8317352.stm | 22:42 |
| Arkenklo | my screen can be mounted vertically, but only if it is tilted as far back as is possible | 22:42 |
| Solarion | the n810 in portrait for PDF articles and books is great, though. Almost perfect | 22:42 |
| Arkenklo | so you practically have to be 40 cm above the screen to be able to read anything | 22:42 |
| Solarion | (See my trainwreck thread in Harmattan for more details and why I shouldn't be seeing/wanting what I see/want. ;) | 22:42 |
| Solarion | Not that I'm bitter. | 22:42 |
| Solarion | I'm more of an acidic flavor at the moment | 22:42 |
| wazd_ | lcuk: that's what you have done to the World :D | 22:42 |
| lcuk | "javispedro, i am megan fox, i would like to have a romp with you. love megan x x x" | 22:42 |
| lcuk | NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO | 22:43 |
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| Solarion | lcuk: beware of the viruses | 22:43 |
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| mgedmin_ | silliest reason to drop offline: my router's battery died | 22:43 |
| lcuk | im thinking more of javispedro getting viruses | 22:43 |
| Arkenklo | lcuk: seems legit | 22:43 |
| javispedro | lcuk: ok, \w*rom\w* | 22:43 |
| lcuk | :D | 22:43 |
| Arkenklo | I say go for it | 22:43 |
| mgedmin_ | now I know what a n900 does when its battery dies and it's in silent profile with vibration off and volume set to 0: nothing | 22:43 |
| mgedmin_ | quiet death | 22:43 |
| lcuk | at least the experience will stay with you forever | 22:43 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: "javispedro, i am dot cotton, from eastenders, i would like to have a romp with you. love megan x x x" | 22:44 |
| lcuk | and the rash | 22:44 |
| Arkenklo | mgedmin_: if the battery is dead it can't do much anyway | 22:44 |
| mgedmin_ | it could beep with the low battery warning | 22:44 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, wow, she sent me one of those too | 22:44 |
| javispedro | "I would like to have a rom with you" would be filtered, but then I'd even prefer it to be filtered. | 22:44 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: Did you accept?! | 22:44 |
| lcuk | of course | 22:44 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Get in there! | 22:44 |
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| mgedmin_ | dunno, or echo 'Low battery'|wall so my ssh session would get a warning at least | 22:44 |
| * timeless_mbp cries | 22:44 | |
| Arkenklo | lcuk: well, you did tell it to not vibrate or make sounds? | 22:44 |
| lcuk | ethel was involved too | 22:45 |
| timeless_mbp | so... i need help w/ perl :) | 22:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: That's just sick | 22:45 |
| mgedmin_ | aieee | 22:45 |
| javispedro | everybody using perl needs help :) | 22:45 |
| lcuk | lol @ timeless bringing the topic back | 22:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: Have respect for the dead | 22:45 |
| mgedmin_ | last time I needed to modify a perl program, I mechanically rewrote it to python and then refactored | 22:45 |
| timeless_mbp | ;;; | 22:45 |
| lcuk | whats up timeless | 22:46 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: i'd probably be willing to let you do that to this program | 22:46 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: i took a program which was "modular", and split the initialization task into a thing i'm trying to use as a "thread" | 22:46 |
| timeless_mbp | ignoring the fact that once it finishes initializing, i won't be able to use the data (i'll cross that bridge when i come to it) | 22:46 |
| timeless_mbp | the main thread runs for a bit and then tosses up a zenity dialog | 22:47 |
| timeless_mbp | until it does that, my worker does work, prints output, and sends progress numbers into a Thread::Queue | 22:47 |
| timeless_mbp | but once my main thread runs its first zenity, the worker seems to stop | 22:47 |
| lcuk | does it stop waiting to push output to console | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | kinda hard to tell | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm using um... virtualbox-mer w/ the on screen keyboard | 22:48 |
| lcuk | does it resumt again after you close the zenity dialog | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | and zenity is system on top | 22:48 |
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| lcuk | resume | 22:48 |
| mgedmin_ | does perl use native threads? | 22:49 |
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| Solarion | perl is fun | 22:49 |
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| Solarion | And yes, I *do* need help. Thanks for asking. :) | 22:49 |
| * javispedro manages to thrash vmware, it's now outputting the vm frambuffer into nearly every surface on my videocard | 22:49 | |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: perl 5.10 here | 22:49 |
| Arkenklo | phosphor cathode ray tube monitors are coolest invention ever | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | and perl threading is "special" | 22:49 |
| Arkenklo | green phosphor cathode ray tube monitors are coolest invention ever | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | basically it says "our threads aren't like any other threads" | 22:49 |
| mgedmin_ | well, python has its infamous global interpreter lock... | 22:50 |
| lcuk | timeless, what does your thread initialize, and can it be done by a complete new process call | 22:50 |
| Solarion | Arkenklo: I think that's probably not; there are things down at a few fractions of a K | 22:50 |
| Arkenklo | oh, has the topic changed? | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: oh sure | 22:50 |
| Arkenklo | Solarion: what? | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | i can replace threading w/ ipc | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | my thread runs msgunfmt on /usr/share/locale/*/LC_MESSAGES/*.mo | 22:51 |
| timeless_mbp | and digests it into data-structures | 22:51 |
| Solarion | Arkenklo: Pun on "coolest invention" | 22:51 |
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| Arkenklo | oh | 22:51 |
| timeless_mbp | later i need to answer "simple" questions based on user input and those data structures | 22:51 |
| Solarion | ;) | 22:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: I want to make a clock. http://www.tps.ac.th/~panya/class/physicsatom/thomson/image/FIRST-CATHODE-RAY-TUBE.jpg - with concealed microcontroller - all brass and mahogony fittings and blown glass. | 22:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: also see http://brassgoggles.co.uk/blog/200711/toy-oscilloscope-and-more-by-mr-a-smith | 22:52 |
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| Arkenklo | that is insanely cool | 22:52 |
| Arkenklo | very frankenstein | 22:53 |
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| Arkenklo | and if you touch it it implodes and showers you in glass | 22:53 |
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| b-man17 | hm? | 22:53 |
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| lcuk | timeless, did you say whether it starts running again after the zenity dialogs are closed | 22:54 |
| timeless_mbp | kinda hard | 22:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | when the zenity dialog closes, the program quits :) | 22:54 |
| Arkenklo | I have a tiny old nokia monitor, I'll plug it in and make it run an all-green terminal just to look at it | 22:54 |
| Arkenklo | brb | 22:54 |
| timeless_mbp | or it goes to the point where it wants to wait for the thing to be done | 22:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: But it's cool enough that that's OK. | 22:54 |
| Arkenklo | SpeedEvil: indeed | 22:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: You know what would be awesome? If you put "X-App-Loading-Image=none" in your desktop file | 22:56 |
| timeless_mbp | what's that do? | 22:56 |
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| crashanddie_ | has there been any work in emulating the psp <-> ps3 protocol? | 22:56 |
| javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=351746 are they freaking betting karma? | 22:57 |
| Arkenklo | DICK | 22:57 |
| Arkenklo | i put the monitor on top of my arduino D: | 22:57 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: Shows the menu background instead. Although, in this case, it shows the desktop and zenity over it instead... | 22:57 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: lol | 22:58 |
| qwerty12_N810 | +when loading | 22:58 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, 'fixed" | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | although that doesn't really help much | 22:59 |
| * timeless_mbp should probably just switch this to have two processes | 22:59 | |
| timeless_mbp | one that does the data munching and one that does the UI | 22:59 |
| crashanddie_ | zerojay, had to be your knight in shining armour | 23:00 |
| javispedro | that's the unixy way | 23:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | ipc via commandline requires pipe3 | 23:06 |
| Jaffa | Is extras-assistant working atm? | 23:06 |
| Jaffa | Ha. No, but ssh/dput is. | 23:06 |
| Jaffa | FFS. | 23:06 |
| timeless_mbp | nice | 23:07 |
| mgedmin_ | timeless_mbp: do you need bidirectional communication between the two? | 23:07 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Jaffa: SSH working? | 23:07 |
| qwerty12_N810 | This is a first for maemo.org... | 23:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, see the cloak proposal? | 23:07 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin_: well, i need to send commands from one to the other | 23:07 |
| wazd_ | daaaamn, now I need to figure out how to decorate celling in my aps | 23:07 |
| mgedmin_ | timeless_mbp: dbus! | 23:07 |
| timeless_mbp | and the other needs to be able to send progress back to the first | 23:07 |
| * mgedmin_ hides | 23:07 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd_: http://englishrussia.com/?p=1410 | 23:08 |
| wazd_ | anyone fammiliar with some interesting light solutions? :) | 23:08 |
| * timeless_mbp summons an assassin and orders it to track mgedmin_ across the face of the earth and execute him | 23:08 | |
| crashanddie_ | why would the n900 see a network as wep when really it's wpa-psk? | 23:08 |
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| javispedro | i've seen that happen with low signla | 23:09 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd_: c'mon, you know that's interesting... | 23:09 |
| timeless_mbp | dbus hasn't been replaced by qcop? :) | 23:09 |
| crashanddie_ | javispedro, not a low signal at all, the router is a few meters away | 23:09 |
| wazd_ | qwerty12_N810: jeez :) | 23:09 |
| javispedro | "qcop" uses dbus iirc. | 23:09 |
| wazd_ | qwerty12_N810: btw, I hate when someone replaces R with "Ya" :) | 23:09 |
| javispedro | ah, qcop. | 23:09 |
| wazd_ | qwerty12_N810: that's the most dumb way to tell somebody that you're fammiliar with russian alphabet :) | 23:10 |
| SpeedEvil | On n900 camera - has anyone experimented with long shutter times? | 23:10 |
| absolute | i dunno, i was curious about that kinda stuff myself | 23:10 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd_: That's the thing: I'm not! :) | 23:10 |
| absolute | like doing scheduled image capture and stringing together something timelapsed | 23:11 |
| timeless_mbp | so... | 23:11 |
| absolute | or even in a single image | 23:11 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't think ipc really makes life easier for me | 23:11 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N810: Yup! Shocking, isn't it? | 23:11 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Yes. No real thoughts beyond that the karma threshold seems high; agree with 500. Final section seems less clear/useful | 23:12 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Start small & grow? | 23:12 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Jaffa: I've switched to the Assistant solely because dput always rejects me. But that may be just due to a dodgy dput.cf... :) | 23:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, not sure about the Nokian guidelines as many may wish to only include certain information. | 23:13 |
| javispedro | I've switched to assistant to be able to upload once and send to all three autobuilders. | 23:13 |
| mgedmin | surely you mean qcob, if you meant to spell dcop upside-down | 23:13 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N810: No, it's not dput.cf - it's just shit ;-) | 23:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Heh, true | 23:13 |
| Jaffa | Right. Telly time whilst Hermes 0.1.0 builds (or doesn't) | 23:13 |
| Jaffa | Oh, no. It's built. Cool. | 23:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | qcob? | 23:16 |
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| mgedmin | nevermind | 23:18 |
| Solarion | http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nook/compare/ | 23:20 |
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| RST38h | another ebook. | 23:23 |
| Solarion | yes | 23:24 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | nookeh | 23:24 |
| sumanah | On maemo.org, I can't figure out how to find all the packages maintained by a specific person | 23:25 |
| sumanah | the person's profile page doesn't have a All Packages By list or link, searching for the maintainer's name doesn't show me packages maintained by that person | 23:26 |
| sumanah | what am I missing? | 23:26 |
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| mgedmin | a great idea | 23:27 |
| mgedmin | is there formal maintainership in maemo? | 23:27 |
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| Solarion | sumanah: from their profile, you should be able to see their Garage account ("Garage" link) | 23:27 |
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| mgedmin | or do people upload fixed versions of whatever they need on an ad-hoc basis? | 23:27 |
| lcuk | wazd_, is this one of yours? | 23:27 |
| lcuk | http://englishrussia.com/?p=1410 | 23:27 |
| Solarion | sumanah: Their Garage profile lists projects they're involved in. | 23:27 |
| mgedmin | because I usually follow option (b) | 23:27 |
| luke-jr | Solarion: but Garage sucks, so not everyone uses it? :/ | 23:28 |
| Solarion | luke-jr: then I can't help you. ;) | 23:28 |
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| RST38h | http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/10/hiphone-f320-phone.jpg | 23:28 |
| Solarion | how does it suck? | 23:28 |
| RST38h | Not rotatable unfortunately | 23:28 |
| woglinde | hi | 23:28 |
| RST38h | moo woglinde | 23:28 |
| luke-jr | Solarion: for a start, it freaking refuses to give me ENGLISH | 23:28 |
| wazd_ | lcuk: sure :D | 23:28 |
| lcuk | RST38h, that was gonna be q1 | 23:28 |
| Solarion | luke-jr: WFM | 23:29 |
| lcuk | wazd the first time i was that i was amazed | 23:29 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Guten tag, woglinde | 23:29 |
| luke-jr | Solarion: wtf does "ここから先はクッキーを有効にしてください" mean? | 23:29 |
| sumanah | Solarion: these are packages in http://maemo.org/packages/ , not https://garage.maemo.org/ | 23:29 |
| Solarion | luke-jr: Japanese gibberish? :) | 23:29 |
| luke-jr | Solarion: exactly | 23:29 |
| woglinde | yo qwerty | 23:29 |
| Solarion | luke-jr: are you in .jp? | 23:29 |
| luke-jr | no | 23:29 |
| luke-jr | I have Japanese set as my 3rd preference of languages. | 23:30 |
| Solarion | Solarion: is your browser set to ask for Japanese? | 23:30 |
| pH5 | luke-jr: something like cookies have to be enabled from here on | 23:30 |
| luke-jr | the first being English(UK), then English(US) | 23:30 |
| luke-jr | pH5: that's beside the point ;) | 23:30 |
| luke-jr | the point is it should give me English | 23:30 |
| Solarion | what browser? | 23:30 |
| Solarion | aaah | 23:31 |
| luke-jr | Solarion: Konqueror, though I doubt it matters | 23:31 |
| Solarion | Put in plain English | 23:31 |
| Solarion | en | 23:31 |
| cosmo | GeneralAntilles: what would be the best way to travel between SF and LA? train? | 23:31 |
| pH5 | hehe | 23:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Don't use Konqueror | 23:31 |
| GAN900 | ~burn en_GB | 23:31 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over en_GB, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 23:31 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | ~slap GAN900 | 23:31 |
| * infobot slaps GAN900, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! | 23:31 | |
| sumanah | luke-jr, mgedmin, Solarion - does garage.maemo.org also cover/list packages that are in maemo.org/packages ? | 23:31 |
| luke-jr | qwerty12_N810: why should I use an inferior browser because of a website bug? | 23:31 |
| GAN900 | cosmo, I'd probably do the train, but I haven't done that route before. | 23:32 |
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| Solarion | luke-jr: https://garage.maemo.org/account/ | 23:32 |
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| GAN900 | cosmo, driving is also a good option. | 23:32 |
| Solarion | Under "Language"< choose English. | 23:32 |
| Solarion | (It's the first list widget on the page) | 23:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | luke-jr: Arora any good? (Don't use KDE myself) | 23:32 |
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| luke-jr | qwerty12_N810: yes, but that's beside the point | 23:32 |
| Solarion | well, in the proper area; therye's "software/group" and "quick jump to" at the very top | 23:32 |
| cosmo | GAN900: yep, but it's 7 hours according to google maps | 23:33 |
| Solarion | luke-jr: are you logged in? | 23:33 |
| luke-jr | Solarion: I wasn't. | 23:33 |
| GAN900 | cosmo, yeah, it's not close. | 23:33 |
| Solarion | luke-jr: I can't reproduce your bug. File a bug in bugzilla svp | 23:33 |
| Solarion | oh hey, maybe I can. | 23:34 |
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| Solarion | Yes, I can. | 23:34 |
| Solarion | Add plain "en" above "jp" | 23:34 |
| Solarion | apparently "en-us" and "en-uk" aren't reocgnized; only en. | 23:34 |
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| Solarion | nope, I'm wrong | 23:35 |
| Solarion | regardless, file a bug or it won't get fixed. | 23:35 |
| Solarion | whining here won't usually help. :) | 23:35 |
| pupnik | starve the beast | 23:35 |
| luke-jr | Solarion: not possible | 23:35 |
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| Solarion | luke-jr: what's not possible? | 23:36 |
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| luke-jr | Solarion: plain "en" | 23:37 |
| Solarion | luke-jr: file the bug. | 23:37 |
| luke-jr | :/ | 23:38 |
| Solarion | it's how things get fixed | 23:38 |
| Solarion | whining is easy. Doing something to fix the problem is not. | 23:38 |
| Solarion | Although filing a bug is relatively easy | 23:38 |
| Solarion | You lose your right to be self-righteously indignant if you do nothing. | 23:38 |
| sumanah | (filing a *good* bug...) | 23:38 |
| Solarion | true | 23:38 |
| Solarion | luke-jr: your license to whine will be recovered by the Internet Police | 23:39 |
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| mgedmin | oh, I mixed up dpkg-query with grep-dctrl! | 23:39 |
| johnsq | Hi | 23:39 |
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| Solarion | ugh. Why is there no bison-mode or flex-mode for emacs? | 23:41 |
| luke-jr | Solarion: but then I will lack a rational objection to Garage :/ | 23:41 |
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| Solarion | luke-jr: ENOTMYPROBLEM ;) | 23:42 |
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| lcuk | wow cool http://englishrussia.com/?p=5205#more-5205 | 23:46 |
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| sumanah | Solarion: empirical evidence shows that (a) I can search for people in the garage, (b) in order to view a person's profile I need to be logged in, and (c) garage is taking its time in sending me my account confirmation :-) | 23:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | sumanah, we really need more servers. :( | 23:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | and a better package search. | 23:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Patches welcome. :D | 23:49 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | N900s in place of the 770s are also welcome | 23:50 |
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| javispedro | yes, donate yours. | 23:50 |
| luke-jr | javispedro: that's what happens when free/discounted devices are based on karma instead of actual contributions/involvement? | 23:50 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: "donate"? It's already Nokia's property | 23:51 |
| lcuk | on the grand scheme of things the 2 are hand in hand | 23:51 |
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| javispedro | uh... | 23:52 |
| luke-jr | qwerty12_N810: haha, so true | 23:52 |
| sumanah | GeneralAntilles: I may be missing something, but it seems like the Garage is built on http://gforge.org/gf/ , which isn't open source. | 23:52 |
| luke-jr | sumanah: AFAIK, both GForge and Garage are built on SourceForge's codebase | 23:52 |
| acidjazz | i just want to wake up one morning and have an email from amazon saying its SHIPPED | 23:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | sumanah, to the package search. | 23:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which doesn't involve Garage. ;) | 23:52 |
| sumanah | oh on maemo.org, the midgard impolementation. | 23:53 |
| sumanah | *implementation | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | and GForge is open source. | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | For the most part. | 23:53 |
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| crashanddie_ | anyone know of a flat around west-london they need to rent out? | 23:54 |
| acidjazz | no updated on shipping eta? | 23:54 |
| crashanddie_ | acidjazz, they're building the provisioning catapult as we speak | 23:54 |
| acidjazz | lol | 23:54 |
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| acidjazz | Availability: Due Sunday 1st November | 23:55 |
| acidjazz | http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=186949 | 23:55 |
| lcuk | lardman has offered to build delivery rockets | 23:55 |
| woglinde | lcuk haha | 23:55 |
| acidjazz | UPDATE i just called them and they have sent out the first batch of phones and will be geting more stock in 2days time RIGHT NOKIA WHERE IS MY PRE ORDER N900 I AM GONIG TO CALL YOU NOW | 23:55 |
| sumanah | GeneralAntilles: I sit corrected. | 23:56 |
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| luke-jr | acidjazz: they had to cancel your order for further experimenting | 23:57 |
| luke-jr | sorry | 23:57 |
| acidjazz | nope fedex just came | 23:57 |
| acidjazz | got mine | 23:57 |
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| acidjazz | bbl unboxing & | 23:57 |
| javispedro | who you're trying to tease? nearly everyone here has a n900 already. | 23:58 |
| * GeneralAntilles wonders when Forum Nokia will get around to setting up the discount codes. | 23:58 | |
| aSIMULAtur | acidjazz: did you ever stop by #bootyhead | 23:58 |
| aSIMULAtur | i mean long ago | 23:59 |
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| acidjazz | i duno im in alot of channels | 23:59 |
| aSIMULAtur | or are u too busy unboxing hte phone we all already have :P | 23:59 |
| acidjazz | javispedro: where's yours from? | 23:59 |
| acidjazz | im multitasking | 23:59 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: yeah - I have 14. | 23:59 |
| javispedro | acidjazz: mine is not in my hands yet. | 23:59 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm using them to prop up my table, and stop it wobbling | 23:59 |
| absolute | Yeah, no word from amazon yet | 23:59 |
| absolute | for me | 23:59 |
| aSIMULAtur | pwned | 23:59 |
| * absolute shrugs | 23:59 | |
| aSIMULAtur | pure PWNAGE | 23:59 |
| acidjazz | im using mine to heigten my kb | 23:59 |
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